# Triple XML / FM 3 inch head



## Chodes (Oct 5, 2013)

99% complete.
1 reflector not straight, having a rest after huge build and sort that out later.

Huge build as I needed a huge heatsink for FM 3 inch head.
Drill press, hacksaw etc and quite a few hours and 1 Copper/ Al heatsink!







Not that it looks small there, here it is next to H22A P7 Mag D / Download Multi Sink





1 LED epoxied. Other 2 being done together, perspex so I can see before applying mass.
Cree XML2. 2 x T6 3C and 1 x T6 3A on Noctigon 20mm copper stars.
Cree XML-10R reflectors.





Trial fit in head. Yes, lens is there. Reflectors are around 1mm shy of the lens and rattle around but don't fall off.
I need spacer/spacers. PC case rubber spacer/standoff almost works.
There is still a 3mm screw for handling.





Complete with 3D backend.
Yellow piece is the standoff. 1 reflector slightly wonky. Centered, just not pointing straight ahead.
Going to be patient and think about good solution. Maybe just epoxy tiny piece underneath reflector to shim up a bit..
Beam has 2 LEDs burning 1 hot spot with 1 LED making an oval shape addition on 1 side.
Nice to sort now, but honestly exhausted after that sink.





Direct drive at the moment.
Hooked up power supply, through the mag switch 9.5V resulted in 2A, 10.05V required for 3A.
So that's pretty low VF, DD will need caution.
Results with Samsung ICR2000 / Sony Konion (2 years old) cells:
3 x ICR2000 @ 3.81V = 4A
3 x Sony konion-V 3.85V = 3.7A
3 x Sony konion-V @ 3.95V = 4.4A

So the Sonys fully charged will be around 5A. Samsungs just too gutsy to use DD.
I'm thinking Der Wichtel 5A buck driver and use 4 x 3400mAh LIONs in Elephant or 4 x 26500 in the 3D Mag.

Regarding spacers for reflectors/LENS, anyone have suggestions?
I've thought of trying to glue 3 flat orings to top of reflectors.

For this assembly I managed to push down hard on the lens while screwing bezel down and kept lens still, rotating inside well lubed bezel
so if I had some orings that were a bit stiffer than normal it might be possibe not to distort the orings and twist them off the reflectors...


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## Norm (Oct 5, 2013)

:goodjob:
Looks incredible Chodes.

Norm


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## Chodes (Oct 5, 2013)

Just in the time to post I think I have sorted problem.
I used 18 AWG wires. I'm pretty sure the bigger wire / solder joint (than my typical 22 AWG) is causing reflector not to sit straight.
Just tidy 1 joint and should be OK. See if I can get different colour PC standoff too...


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## Chodes (Oct 5, 2013)

Thanks Norm.

The good thing about it is once it's all inside the head, it screws off easy in 1 piece
so I can swap to other body / add driver etc easily.
Once I get that wobbly reflector sorted it's plain sailing


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## Chodes (Oct 5, 2013)

It works. Added 3 more standoffs. Now have good beam, 1 round hot spot 
Not entirely happy with the look. Black standoffs would look better IMHO.
Was dusk when I first posted, indoor ceiling bounce was mighty impressive, now I have 3 reflectors pointing the same way first few points out into the dark pretty impressive too.


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## Gtamazing (Oct 5, 2013)

Nice job on that heatsink. I really do enjoy the FMX3 head.


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## Capolini (Oct 5, 2013)

Wow!! That looks awesome!!:thumbsup:

Do you have any idea how many Lumens and cd it might have?

Good luck with it!


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## Chodes (Oct 5, 2013)

Gtamazing said:


> Nice job on that heatsink. I really do enjoy the FMX3 head.



Thanks mate. Yes, 3 inch head is big bucks but worth it IMHO.

I am now regretting not following your path and screwing down these LEDs rather than using epoxy.
If any of the LEDs do die, I'll drill the sink with the dead LEDs in place before replacing.

Time spent drilling and tapping probably regained with out lots of mucking around trying to align with wet epoxy and likely to achieve better contact/thermal transfer and make easy maintenance.

Those Noctigon stars really need some preparation! Gently trial fitting on the sink I got lots of scratches from the burred edges of the stars.
Next time, sand the bottom of stars before putting on polished heatsink


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## Chodes (Oct 5, 2013)

Capolini said:


> Wow!! That looks awesome!!:thumbsup:
> 
> Do you have any idea how many Lumens and cd it might have?
> 
> Good luck with it!



Cheers.
XML2 spec'd around 1000 Lumens at 3A.
Times 3 = around 3000Lumens. Over driven to 5A around 4800 LED Lumens.

I suppose 3500 - 4000 OTF Lumens would be a conservative estimate.
Those reflectors have good throw for their size so it's not as floody as many multis.


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## Chodes (Oct 6, 2013)

It's been fun playing the direct drive game. 
The overall vf of LED string seems to have increased slightly.
I've worked up to 95% charged Samsung ICR2000 18650s, rested overnight. These are gutsy cells.

5.6 Amps! Cool just to see the number on my meter.


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## Chodes (Oct 20, 2013)

I've had a bit of time to use this, really like it. Starting a 2nd one with some minor tweaks.
Heatsink base, will have copper top like V1. Did some advanced human lathe work, pretty happy with result.
50mm diameter, 20mm thick al base will have good contact with 3 inch head.
About 2.5 hours and 5 bandaids.


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## badtziscool (Oct 20, 2013)

2.5hours and 5 bandaids? That's one bandaid every 30 minutes. :nana:

Looking good though. Curious to know though what you meant by "advanced human lathe" work.


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## Chodes (Oct 20, 2013)

Yes, the bandaid average was achieved with 1 (stupid) incident. 

I'll credit Ma_sha1 for creating the "Human Lathe" term.
Human lathe = making things you would normally use a lathe to make. (I don't own lathe)

I claim "advanced" due to the cone shape bottom.


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## Chodes (Oct 21, 2013)

2 x copper 3mm plates on top of the 20 mm bottom piece. Needed extra trim on bottom for good fit.





Another 25mm thick al piece which will go inside the mag tube. Final plate will go on bottom of that for mounting driver.





Ready for drilling/tapping for LEDs. Will do final cleanup of top copper surface after that.


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## Chodes (Oct 21, 2013)

Der Wichtel 5A driver arrived. Got a bonus 0.23A 
Don't have a pot yet so it will be max only, 10K pot will allow adjusting down to around 0.5A.

Looks like it will be fairly simple to heatsink / pot and mount to my sink.


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## pyro1son (Oct 21, 2013)

This is one good looking project can't wait to see the final outcome!


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## Chodes (Oct 22, 2013)

I can't help thinking this CPF thing is counter productive. 
I have been raving about how good these XML10 reflectors are in a few threads.
Of course, now they are out of stock at Cutter....


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## Chodes (Oct 23, 2013)

Just waiting on reflectors now.
(Have these two, one is a bit hacked from previous builds , need 3 anyway..)

Bottom al piece copper wrapped - provides a housing for driver and now real tight in Mag tube.
3 x XML2 T6 4C LEDS.
15mm screws through the LEDS, copper plates not tapped so all 9 screws clamping the heatsink.
Mounted driver offset - easier for wires to LEDS.






Trial fit and quick test.


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## Der Wichtel (Oct 24, 2013)

really nice and clean work you are doing here!


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## Gtamazing (Oct 24, 2013)

Are the leds wired series or parallel with the dw driver?


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## Chodes (Oct 24, 2013)

Series for the LEDs with DW driver, so around 55 watts tpotal.


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## Chodes (Oct 24, 2013)

Der Wichtel said:


> really nice and clean work you are doing here!



Thankyou. Speaking of clean work - your driver looks so much better than cheaper drivers I'm used to seeing


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## Chodes (Oct 29, 2013)

After an almost perfect problem free build, things went bad for a bit.
Put a small scratch in the top of the heatsink, then overheated one of the pads on the stars re arranging wires. Was trying to hide wires, but impractical I think.
Pulled it all apart, added a 4C LED, then heard the letterbox, new LED order arrived.
Did not manage to get the top copper plate back to shiny mirror finish, but decided a brushed look would be cool, cleaned up pretty good, stopped at 800 grit wet n dry, did not bother with 1200.
Added one of the T6 3C LEDs from the new order, so now 3 x T6 3C LEDs. EDIT -wrong! config is 2 x T6 3C, 1 x T6 4C
Since build almost complete and looking good, pulled reflector from my V1 Triple FM3
and assembled. Used lots of lube around lens so I could tighten bezel without spinning glass on reflectors and scratching lens.
Used some Arctic Silver around the heatsink and assembled head.
Grabbed a 4D tube and old tail with low resistance modded spring and stainless external ring for strap / lanyard.
Tried something different with mag switch rear spring, soldered 22 AWG wire to connector , through spring. Then metal epoxied around the spring. The spring now has no use, was just there to locate wire while epoxy set.
I had been connecting to power supply at various stages so new it was a worker.

Fired up with 4 fresh Smasung ICR2000 18650s and measured 3.8 Amps at tail.
Pleased to see a large amount of light coming out. Hotspot is a bit tighter (now very tight) indicating my V1 had 1 reflector not quite level (confirmed with visual inspection)

Took out for a photo, went to grab camera and heard a bang. Light rolled off sun bench onto the ground. 

2nd stuff up (LED overheat, # 1)

Pleased to see only a tiny speck of ano missing from 3 inch head, tube untouched, extra scratch in tail, it was already scratched.
Over the drop instantly - it's a user now.
V1 will be rebuilt into Elephant for shelf queen.

1st time I've ever had a light roll of this bench:






See small white speck - only damage I could see.















Bezel has around 1 mm extra to tighten, will wait until I get a pot and install for dimming, tightening the bezel down without spinning lens on reflectors and or ripping domes of the LEDs is the only part of this build I get a little nervous about.

It should be dark in about 30 minutes...
I think for this light, car headlight may be good comparison

Just realized checking above, I have 2 x T6 4C, 1 x T6 3C. That was my original plan, found my way back there by mistake...
I did want just a tad cooler than 4C.


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## agnelucio (Nov 7, 2013)

Very nice. Excellent metalwork! :twothumbs :goodjob:

Have you run it long enough continuously for it to get hot? 
Just wondering. (but I don't doubt that that heatsink will take good care of it - especially with that copper)


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## Chodes (Nov 8, 2013)

agnelucio said:


> Very nice. Excellent metalwork! :twothumbs :goodjob:
> 
> Have you run it long enough continuously for it to get hot?
> Just wondering. (but I don't doubt that that heatsink will take good care of it - especially with that copper)



Thanks. It's been hot!
No noticeable difference between the 2 lights, they both get real hot after 5 minutes, 10-12 minutes is the most I have run.
I thought the only way it will fail is if I did not do a good job mounting LEDs. Pretty well guaranteed with the screwed down LEDS.

I have pulled apart V1 light, improving that heatsink, copper wrapping bottom for both better contact with Mag tube and more direct thermal path from the top part of sink. I should be able to run it long term in a sauna :tinfoil:


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## Chodes (Nov 14, 2013)

Revising V1 Triple. Need LEDs higher so I don't need dodgy rubber spacers.
V2 still waiting on new reflectors but it's proven reliable and works great so I can take my time with V1.
Added 3rd 3mm copper plate. Only need about 2mm so also shaved a little of the whole sink so it can sit a little lower.
Also copper wrapped lower bits. Can't quite get inside mag tube now, will need to sand tube a little but now more direct thermal path to main sink.
Next step drill and tap for stars.

The messy looking copper step in lower part will be crushed by the mag tube and provide extra contact.


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## tobrien (Nov 15, 2013)

looks perfect


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## agnelucio (Nov 16, 2013)

Would you happen to have any beamshots that you might be willing to post? (of either, complete or not)

I'm strongly considering a triple XML build myself (using three spare UF C8 reflectors), 
so I would like to get an idea of what I could expect output-wise.

Thanks, and :kewlpics:


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## Chodes (Nov 16, 2013)

agnelucio said:


> Would you happen to have any beamshots that you might be willing to post? (of either, complete or not)
> 
> I'm strongly considering a triple XML build myself (using three spare UF C8 reflectors),
> so I would like to get an idea of what I could expect output-wise.
> ...



I have not done beamies yet, your timing is good, high chance I will do them in next few days.
(I can't imagine my light would compete with 3 x C8 reflectors, much deeper and significantly bigger diameter)


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## Hallis (Nov 16, 2013)

Chodes this is looking EXCELLENT. I'm scraping together a few odds and ends to put together a little build of my own but it won't be anything near this impressive. That custom HS work is very impressive. I'll bet it has a really snug fit in the head for good thermal transfer to the head itself. 

-Shane


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## Chodes (Nov 28, 2013)

Still waiting on reflectors..no problem,taking my time.

My piece of mag tube I use for building was such a tight fit only way I could separate from the sink was with trolley jack.
Once that sorted, time to mark up for LED stars.





Holes drilled, give the top surface a clean up on my "lathe"
No confusion, XML2 T6 3C LEDs.





LEDS mounted with 3mm stainless screws. Extra screws / spacers will assist fitting sink into head/ light.
Will probably leave them there.


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## Chodes (Nov 28, 2013)

Time for trial fit in host, bit of tapping got bottom of sink half way into Elephant. Rubber mallet should get it all the way.





Check bezel / lens fit. 





Looking good,reflectors just starting to contact lens. Should be able to squash the o-ring a bit and completely tighten bezel.





Ordered H6Flex driver today, should get it Monday or Tuesday.
Time to remove LEDs and do final top surface prep.


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## tobrien (Nov 29, 2013)

it still looks amazing


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## Chodes (Jan 2, 2014)

Many hours more:





Used the recommended thermal tape for mounting driver.





Rubber piece for spreading load while clamped for 24 hours.





Plenty room for 18AWG wires.





Just see 3mm tapped hole below left of the yellow wire. 2 of these to make fit and removal of driver heatsink easier.
Driver sink has small amount of Arctic Alumina with some Arctic 5 grease, will hold it in but should be able to break free easier than all AA.





Grease and fit.


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## Chodes (Jan 2, 2014)

On!





Reflectors arrived, I was hoping they would not package like this:


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## Chodes (Jan 2, 2014)

Above completed late December, but hit a rather major snag - unable to get H6Flex driver to work.
(Have run on low setting for 30 minutes, but any higher level results ion shutdown with less than 1 to a few seconds)
Due to Christmas New Year, put off emailing George for help, for both our benefit!
I have spent countless hours pressing buttons and also having problem with menu.

This would be exceptionally boring for anyone without H6Flex experience or anyone not considering one,
for the few that may be interested or may be able to help:

I have 2 problems:
Shutdown on anything higher than low level problem remains.
Once in menu, I often get 2 flash responses for a click (instead of expected 1).
This can happen at any or more than 1 of clicks in a click sequence.
Further, once in menu option, not getting expected response.

Possibility switch bounce could be causing problem. I notice often once menu entered, I start clicking to get to menu option, expecting 1 flash response per click but get 2 flash responses sometimes.
That is the smaller problem by far. I could use light fine with current menu setup. The shutdown on anything higher than lowest setting makes light unusable obviously.

Videos for anyone really interested demonstrating all above.

https://vimeo.com/83274190
https://vimeo.com/83274191


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## Chodes (Jan 2, 2014)

Huge email sent to George. Really hoping I don't have to remove the driver, if I do, at least those tapped holes in side of the driver heatsink will make it relatively simple.


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## agnelucio (Jan 2, 2014)

What are the new reflectors like? Smooth/Orange peel, dimensions? Are you getting more throw perhaps? Good luck with the H6Flex by the way!


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## Chodes (Jan 2, 2014)

agnelucio said:


> What are the new reflectors like? Smooth/Orange peel, dimensions? Are you getting more throw perhaps? Good luck with the H6Flex by the way!



I really like them, 29mm diameter, about 15.6mm high.
They are faceted. (See the vertical lines.)


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## Chodes (Jan 2, 2014)

Already got response from George! Off to buy some capacitors


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## Chodes (Jan 2, 2014)

Success! 0.1uf cap across switch contacts (driver end) for debounce and I can now use the menu.
100uf cap across +/- (again driver end) also. George said sudden current at high may be tripping protect cct on cells but using IMRs or Samsung 20R unprotected so confused about fix, but happy!Set max drive current to 5 Amps, ran for 5 mins, got hot but that’s expected for a 55W LED light
Finally, time to fit reflectors and turn this giant mule into what it should be.


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## agnelucio (Jan 3, 2014)

Nice! Yeah, decoupling and debouncing are always good when there are control electronics around large currents, as voltage and current spikes and fluctuations are imminent. Did you say 5 amps for each LED? Surely that's going to cause damage/long-term degradation?


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## Chodes (Jan 3, 2014)

agnelucio said:


> Nice! Yeah, decoupling and debouncing are always good when there are control electronics around large currents, as voltage and current spikes and fluctuations are imminent. Did you say 5 amps for each LED? Surely that's going to cause damage/long-term degradation?



I think 5 Amps should be OK. LEDs are direct bonded to copper stars, beefy sink and body.
As the stars are screw fitted, real easy to swap out if needed.


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## evanh2002ss (Apr 6, 2014)

Any updates?


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## Chodes (Aug 20, 2014)

evanh2002ss said:


> Any updates?



Yes. The update is this project killed my enthusiasm for light building.
I will offer this for sale as an incomplete project.
(replace 1 LED and it's right to go as direct drive)


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