# Gaggione LLC49R - A good throwing optic for XM-L



## The_bad_Frag (Feb 16, 2012)

I just recived a Gaggione LLC49R from led-tech. Those are really nice. This is the first optic for XM-L (that I know) which has some good throw.

Here are some pics. Its fitting perfect on the copper pcb XM-L! 


























I will do some beamshots when I mounted it. I already held it on my energizer XM-L and I really like the throw of it.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Feb 16, 2012)

With size like that, it BETTER be a good thrower! It will at least have higher lux than a comparable reflector, I'd imagine.


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## Hill (Feb 17, 2012)

Very cool looking optic. Any idea what host it will fit?

The great thing about optics is they are shallower than reflectors allowing for more heatsinking.

LED-TECH site is currently down :-(


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## archer6817j (Feb 17, 2012)

Does it still fit on the mcpcb after you solder the wires on? I've found 90% of optics I've tried fit great...until you actually try to hook them up. I'd be interested to know the size as well?


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## The_bad_Frag (Feb 17, 2012)

Here you can see all dimensions of that optic in the picture gallery.

Ger: http://www.led-tech.de/de/High-Powe...L,-XP-G,-XB-D,-OSLON...--LT-1813_106_122.html
Eng: http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Powe...L,-XP-G,-XB-D,-OSLON...--LT-1813_106_122.html

Your wires need to be 1,1mm or less in diameter. Ill post a pic when I have some cables on that XM-L. :wave:


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## The_bad_Frag (Feb 17, 2012)

Now some pics from the first test. 





Your solder connections need to be 1,1mm or less in height. So just keep them flat like I did. Shouldnt be difficult for someone who already soldered a bit. Just dont make those "mountain tops" when you pull the soldering iron away. 





My silicone wires are a bit bigger than 1,1mm in diameter so I have to apply slight pressure to the optic to get it all the way down on the pcb.





If you want to screw that copper pcb down you have to countersink (I hope its the right word ) the mounting holes and use screws that align with the surface of the pcb.





Gaggione LLC49R





triple XM-L Mag

I just put that XM-L on a cpu heatsink and DD it of 3 AAA eneloops. Those were only 40-50% charged and there was so much resistance in the test circuit that I only got ~1A current.  I dont have a driver for it atm so those beamshots are not comparable! (+different exposures!)
The beam of the optic has about the same size as the hotspot of my triple XM-L mag with DW kit reflectors. There is not much spill. I think only 1 XM-L at 3A can throw better than my triple. Dont worry I only use that energy-saving bulb-crap because I didnt ordered a led for it.  I HATE those lamps!


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## pavithra_uk (Feb 17, 2012)

I have this optic. unfortunately it never fit with standard star MCPCB. have to cut tiny 2 bumps. and can't use MCPCB screws.

Didn't found holder for that optics.


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## ma_sha1 (Feb 18, 2012)

looks like they are too floody for XML, maybe better with XPG?


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## Al Combs (Feb 18, 2012)

The datasheet in The_bad_Frag's link says the LLC49R optic on an XM-L has an efficacy of 36.4 Cd/Lm. So if your XM-L was a 1,000 lumen U2 bin, that would be 36,400 lux @ 1 meter. The beam half angle at 50% is 3.7° and half angle at 10% is 6.6°. So it basically has a 13° hotspot. Besides the XM-L U2, I checked on Cd/Lm figures for the XP-G S2 and the XP-E R3. They are all very close but the XP-E R3 has the brightest hotspot of the three at just over 40K lux.

Not as good as your 127K lux XM-L Franken Mag Shorty ma_sha1, but not too bad. Like you said, kind of floody. Considering the hotspot diameter looks identical to Der Wichtel's triple and that you'd need a light as big as a Mag to hold a 45mm TIR anyway, I think you'd probably be better off with a Rebel Mag reflector for throw. Even after allowing for the TIR's absence of spill.


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## The_bad_Frag (Feb 18, 2012)

I just did some quick testing with my old crappy lux meter.

Here are the results:

210 lux - triple XM-L T5 Mag DW kit @3A ucl lens
160 lux - Gaggione LLC49R + XM-L T5 @~2A
125 lux - Energizer mod with energizer reflector(almost the same beam as stock mag D reflector) XM-L [email protected] stock lens
60 lux - Wolf-Eyes Krait
55 lux - triple XM-L T5 Mag DW kit 1x XM-L @3A ucl lens

I also did a super quick test outside and it looks throwy to me. At 100-150m it illuminates everything with almost the same bightness as the triple mag. I need to get a driver to run it at 3A and then test again.


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## gt40 (Feb 18, 2012)

I was wondering about this optic. Ordered some of the Mobdar extra narrow 6° and 3 of the same xm-l u2 on copper for smaller lights. Is there a point vs aspheric? I mean you are getting to a size light that you could fit a decent aspheric in a this point...


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## jirik_cz (Feb 20, 2012)

How do you mount the optic on the star? Do you just glue it?


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## The_bad_Frag (Feb 21, 2012)

You can use glue if you want... ...but I would use the body of the flashlight to press it against the star. When you glue it you will destroy the star/led when you try to remove it.


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## Hoop (Feb 25, 2012)

Is it your observation that this optic produces less of the yellow/green corona that xml's display when using reflectors? The beamshot looks quite white for an xml.


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## The_bad_Frag (Feb 25, 2012)

No this is because I took these shots with the cam in auto mode. In reality it gives the led a warmer tint than it would have without the optic. I would say its about the same as a reflector.


Yesterday I got some rebel reflectors and when Im able to focus them good on the led I will do a comparison. Somehow I get a hole in the middle of the beam or a very floody hotspot with the rebel reflector. Its not looking like beamshots here.


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## nc_hooper (Feb 28, 2012)

Just got mine in. Mounted in a 2D mag with an XML-T6 running at 3.1 amps.

The way I mounted it into a standard mag head by grinding off the tabs at the end and the tab on the side. Then I resized a large rubber washer and used that to push the optic against the lens. Worked quite well and is tight and well centered. And you can de-focus it for a larger spot.

Did various subjective comparisons - using a standard/rebel reflector and a FM throwmaster head. Also tried a Malkoff XP-G dropin. Liked the XML better - it has a larger spot but is brighter. Really liked the minimum spill - that's the main advantage for me with this optic. It does not throw as far as the rebel reflector and nowhere close to the 2.5" FM Throwmaster head. But it seems to put out more lumens (based on a very subjective ceiling bounce test). Of course it has a larger spot size then these reflectors. I was most impressed when I compared it to my M6-Septa SST-90. Lumens factory claims 1600 lumens for this, but probably closer to 1200 lumens. The XML is producing probably 800 lumens at most. Anyhow, when compared, the spot size is a bit bigger for the optic and considerably brighter (with a lot less spill). Another comparision I did was with my Malkoff Wildcat V2 (3x XPG with reflectors) - the optic has a smaller spot and is considerably brighter.


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## Al Combs (Feb 29, 2012)

nc_hooper said:


> The way I mounted it into a standard mag head by grinding off the tabs at the end and the tab on the side. Then I resized a large rubber washer and used that to push the optic against the lens. Worked quite well and is tight and well centered. And you can de-focus it for a larger spot.


Just for clarification, was the tab grinding at the end necessary because you used something other than The_bad_Frag's copper star? What kind of heatsink did you use in your 2D Mag? I was thinking of trying a Bad_Frag copper star and TIR on an H22A flattop in a MagLite. Would make a nice everyday utility light in a Mag-C with a single 26650 and a 2.8 amp linear regulator. Maybe a few extra 7135 chips soldered on to take that copper star for a test drive. But I'm not sure if the H22A flattop is too tall. What do you think?



> I was most impressed when I compared it to my M6-Septa SST-90. Lumens factory claims 1600 lumens for this, but probably closer to 1200 lumens. The XML is producing probably 800 lumens at most. Anyhow, when compared, the spot size is a bit bigger for the optic and considerably brighter (with a lot less spill). Another comparison I did was with my Malkoff Wildcat V2 (3x XPG with reflectors) - the optic has a smaller spot and is considerably brighter.


I thought the same thing from the The_bad_Frag's lux measurements in post #10. The relative measurements shouldn't be affected by his use of what he called a, "crappy lux meter". I did the backwards math from Cree's XM-L data sheet graph, "Relative Flux vs. Current". If you reduce the current from 3 amps and 210 lux down to 2 amps should be ≈158 lux. So his 160 lux result at 2 amps means it would throw about the same as a triple if he had a 3 amp regulator. That of course assumes similar T5's. I would not have thought you could get that much extra light from just utilizing the spill. Even an aspheric that has no spill, to triple the output of a similar sized reflector hotspot is quite good. Very impressive results.:thumbsup:


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## nc_hooper (Feb 29, 2012)

Al - the tab grinding at the end was due to my specific configuration. My LED is mounted on a ground-down star on a short 12mm wide post which then expands to the width of the battery tube and forms an aluminum heat sync. This is one of JayRobs Mag Mods using 2x32650. Anyhow, the power wires have a small loop close to the LED; I needed to grind down the tabs so the optic could clear these wires. I had to grind down the side tab because how I mounted the optics to the head (using a large rubber washer, pushing the optic into the front lens). With the side tab in place, the washer would not work unless I cut a notch into it.


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## Al Combs (Feb 29, 2012)

nc_hooper said:


> Al - the tab grinding at the end was due to my specific configuration. My LED is mounted on a ground-down star on a short 12mm wide post which then expands to the width of the battery tube and forms an aluminum heat sync. This is one of JayRobs Mag Mods using 2x32650. Anyhow, the power wires have a small loop close to the LED; I needed to grind down the tabs so the optic could clear these wires. I had to grind down the side tab because how I mounted the optics to the head (using a large rubber washer, pushing the optic into the front lens). With the side tab in place, the washer would not work unless I cut a notch into it.


Could you give an estimate of where the tip of the LED is relative to the front of the Mag battery tube? Does the LED protrude from the front of the battery tube? Or is it recessed like it would need to be for a Rebel reflector? Do you have any pictures? Thanks in advance...


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## nc_hooper (Mar 1, 2012)

I could take a close look this evening. But basically it's in a position similar to the standard non-rebel reflector - so it's slightly recessed. It could go a bit further forward because the optimal focus location is slightly out from screwing the head down entirely. I'll if I can get a few pictures this weekend.


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## Al Combs (Mar 1, 2012)

nc_hooper said:


> I could take a close look this evening. But basically it's in a position similar to the standard non-rebel reflector - so it's slightly recessed. It could go a bit further forward because the optimal focus location is slightly out from screwing the head down entirely. I'll if I can get a few pictures this weekend.


You don't have to bother with pictures. Your description is good enough for what I wanted to know. Thank you.:wave:


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 3, 2012)

Finally got some time & tried it on Mag C, lens appears too small, sure it can go in with a spacer but a 45mm lens in 52mm opening looks out of place. 
However, it fits perfect in the ML100 that has a 45mm head(New mag C LED).

Because the new ML100 has the new patented centering & focusing adjustment, it can achieve perfect centering & focusing to get a perfect beam. The lens is very picky, if not centered perfectly, it'll show in spot shape & imperfection.

The led is XPE. However, even at tightest focus, the spot is twice a big as stock but looks 1/3 the brightness. The perfect beam & larger hot spot is more useful in doors compared to stock, I also like the lack of spill. This set-up look like E2DL, my eyeballing about 10Klux.

However, the stock set-up is super throw with tiny spot, more suitable for out doors, I am guessing it's 30-40K lux range, that's crazy throw for a 137lumen light (maybe higher lumen on mine since I am using Li-ion 4.2v vs. stock 3v).
Very long run time.

ML100 18650 Shorty:






ML100SMO vs. LLC49R:


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## Al Combs (Mar 3, 2012)

ma_sha1 said:


> Finally got some time & tried it on Mag C, lens appears too small, sure it can go in with a spacer but a 45mm lens in 52mm opening looks out of place.
> However, it fits perfect in the ML100 that has a 45mm head(New mag C LED).
> 
> Because the new ML100 has the new patented centering & focusing adjustment, it can achieve perfect centering & focusing to get a perfect beam. The lens is very picky, if not centered perfectly, it'll show in spot shape & imperfection.
> ...


You were only getting 10K lux because you forgot to crank that XP-E up to 1 amp. That's when you get the 40K readings.:devil:

Seriously though, I forgot all about the ML-100. I saw this thread over 2 years ago. But I eventually just stopped looking, MagVapor. I had heard they planned to come out with a 'C' cell version of the Mag-LED. I didn't realize that meant almost doubling the price. I saw a 2C-LED on Amazon for $40. But the picture was of the 2C Incan version. The one that actually looked like yours was 50 bucks. I hope you didn't pay that much. Any pictures of the 'guts'? How about the dimensions of the reflector, 45mm x What?

I'm still thinking this TIR and copper star XM-L would make a good match for the regular Mag-C or D. As you say the TIR has a 7mm smaller diameter than a standard Incan or Rebel reflector. I still call them Rebel even though they've switched to the XP-E. But the bezel ID where it touches the glass is only 47.5mm diameter. So the ring of unused space you can see around the TIR is only a little wider than 1mm.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 4, 2012)

Al Combs said:


> You were only getting 10K lux because you forgot to crank that XP-E up to 1 amp. That's when you get the 40K readings.:devil:



I couldn't do it. The ML100 centering/focusing mechanism is very innovative & very nice feature, but it prevent one from using heat sink. Also, the board is controlled using an electronic swicth, it'll be very hard to mod. Yes, I paid full price, , I want to wait & see someone else destry theirs first.


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## Ctechlite (Mar 23, 2012)

ma_sha1 said:


> I want to wait & see someone else destry theirs first.




:nana:


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## PMM (Apr 8, 2012)

Brought a couple of these to play with

Not a bad optic but certainly appear wide beam with lowish lux on the meter so I suspect the data sheet is correct on its figures

With the Gaggione LLC49R in a hand held test pointing at the light meter 1 meter away I was getting about 18K Lux

Same XML t6 using a 80mm projector lens hit 96K Lux at 1m

In comparison my SST90 mag build with lens removed and using projector lens hit 98K and 126Klux using my project lens which is unsuitable for the XML on its own (Well at 1m distance) may have been a different story if tested at 5m but there was more lost light due to flooding out of bounds needed a pre lens to make more light hit the project lens with the XML.


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