# Titanium part two: What's the big deal?



## voodoogreg (Jul 4, 2006)

The exclusiveness? Durability? Niche/class attraction? 

I will confess to owning some ti articles myself, and I am not a machinist, but have a rudimentary knowledge of metals, jewels, and techie materials such as carbon composite's, and there processing.
I will also confess to a large aversion to the word "Titanium"
After seeing a fav driver Clay Reggizoni, become a paraplegic when a ti part on his front brakes failed on his Ensign right in front of my eyes while attending the 80' long beach race. 
(Same reason I had a 180-bpm pulse watching the shuttle goes off just a while ago) 
Aside from durability, it's known there is even a few reason's why ti is not the best metal for a flashlight, and to be honest I don't like the sheen, or lacking depth of dimension of ti. (Sorry, but ESP the ugly add on bezel's I have seen on some HA-III lights)

So for those that prefer it, and also those of you like me, what's the "real" attraction? Discuss... VDG


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## xpitxbullx (Jul 4, 2006)

voodoogreg said:


> The exclusiveness? Durability? Niche/class attraction?



I would say that all of the above answers are correct.

I use a Ti bezel for my HDS U60 because I bang the tips of my EDC's all the time. My reason, durability. Ti can have some nice scratch-resistant properties.

Jeff


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## Manzerick (Jul 4, 2006)

lighter... stronger... better..Ti.... 


I love the look of it. I think it could be from loving my Ti golf clubs. Once I can swing right again (disk problem) I will get a nice set of Ti irons too.

In a flashlight it is just wonderful!!! Love the look of it yet i've only seen pic's on here


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## chmsam (Jul 4, 2006)

It's certainly lightweight and strong, but you're right, it is not suitable for all applictions. No metal is. The hi-tech factor and glitz value is also an appeal. Annodized Ti is very neat looking stuff. But even that doesn't make it the last word in wonder materials. For some uses like lights and knives it can be a real hoot.

I also saw Reggazoni race F1. I was very impressed that he competed in the Paris-Dakar some years ago in the truck class -- and those weren't little pickup trucks either.


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## BigHonu (Jul 4, 2006)

From a practical standpoint and in a light in particular I like the 'take it anywhere' ability, especially when it comes to salty environments...and I am pretty much surrounded by salty water. Use it and put it away wet, no problem. You would be amazed at how quickly things can deteriorate in a hot, humid, and salty environment. I also don't need to worry about an HA coating chipping out if I drop it, which I do fairly often as others may attest.

From an aesthetic standpoint, I love it. Something about brushed Ti that visually does it for me. The polished stuff I'm not a fan of though.


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## Isak Hawk (Jul 4, 2006)

Scratch resistance, toughness (compared to aluminium), corrosion resistance, low weight (compared to steel) and ofcourse cool-factor


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## Trashman (Jul 4, 2006)

It's hypo-allergenic! (non-reactive with us humans) My uncle holds the belief that alluminum is bad for us-- something he says that he's heard since he was a kid (he's 73 or 74, now). People are even linking the stuff the alzheimer's, these days. I don't really worry about it, though. I mean, I doubt my flashlight is going to kill me (anyway, they're all anodized. (except for the RAW)) If aluminum is going be the one to knock me off, or at least my mind, it'll probably be because of my deoderant. 

So, I guess there are some that would argue that Ti is the healthy choice! How's that for a brand name for flashlights? (Healthy Choice)


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## McGizmo (Jul 4, 2006)

I think Ti is like he 8th most common element on earth so it is not _rare_. I for one have had a long standing like or appreciation for Ti due to my aversion to the war against entropy. I am lazy and don't care for the need of elbow grease and other energies including money that can be required to maintain and/or replace items of materials that won't hold up to the use, abuse and elements they are subjected to. I prefer function to looks and especially if the looks require maintenance ( a glance in the mirror is a common reminder of this for me! :green

I used to make a lot of widgets and gadgets and gizmos out of stainless steel until I became all to aware that stainless is really stains less; especially in the marine environment where I am wont to spend my time. Ti is indifferent to the saline content of any water or moisture and that is important to me. 

Some are attracted to the buzz. The buzz got there to start with due to descriminating folks and reasons beyond popularity initially. 

Probably in recognition of my own mortality and short time I look to Ti for its imortality? :thinking: :shrug:

I do know I like the metal and it has nothing to do with the perceptions of others! Like everything a strength is a weakness and Ti has it's set. In some cases it is inappropriate. In come cases it is ideal. In many cases it is a viable compromise. In any case, if the case is Ti, it is probably an expensive case, impervious to most environments and reasonably durable! My Ti Rhino Palm case is a good case in point in case you give a poop! :nana:


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## orb (Jul 4, 2006)

Don you are a Case LOL.
Because we Can, & in the scheme of thinks a Ti Flashlight is very unique.
I love unique & why or what would you do to improve the look of this:






& The other Ti Flashlights that are here on CPF (Only I bet)


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## voodoogreg (Jul 4, 2006)

orb said:


> Don you are a Case LOL.
> Because we Can, & in the scheme of thinks a Ti Flashlight is very unique.
> I love unique & why or what would you do to improve the look of this:
> 
> ...



could make it even more gaudy and inset a pink Argyle in it  just kinding, it's a very nice light, though I still am not a fan of ti astatically.


Don, as always a great post, I forgot the practical marine use of ti. I often have though you should make a collection of many of your post's in book form. I always learn from them, and how humorous and well written they
are.

CHMSAM, As an 18 yr old I was really just so devasated by Clay's crash. And yes he still active, and even runs (or did as of 2000 or so) a racing school for new and veteran handicapped driver's wanting to compete. The three times i met him he was such a gentleman, and has such a positive, dry humored personality. VDG


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## xochi (Jul 4, 2006)

The word "titanium" has become pretty nauseating in terms of just how marketed it is but I think ti is pretty neat stuff. I'm somewhat amazed that, as easy as it is to anodize, no one seems to be doing it. I bet that will change since ti lights are all over the place now and a big plus is the exclusivity of the metal. Once a couple of guys start fooling with anodizing the stuff , I think it will explode in popularity.

Ti is nice to have something like a very special light or knife in since ti is so rarely used in most of the things we use every day. An aluminum flashlight is made of the same stuff as a soda can, something I throw away a few times a day. If they started making soda cans out of ti, ti flashlights wouldn't be "all that".


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## FirstDsent (Jul 5, 2006)

I underestand that crash must have been horrifying. However, thousands of times more people have been killed or maimed due to failure of steel or aluminum alloy parts. The material is irrelevant. Every material can fail if the part is poorly designed, poorly made, poorly maintained, or used inappropriately. If Clay's part failed, it wasn't designed, inspected, maintained, or used correctly. Titanium is a perfectly good material if it is used correctly. 

I have a beautiful engraved gold wedding band, but I wear a Ti band at work so I don't bugger up the nice gold one. Nice application. And no, it's not very attractive. 

I have built whitewater kayak paddles with Ti shafts before. Purely for strength/flexibility. It didn't suck that it was extremely uncommon and exotic in that application either. The graphite sandwitch core blades I made would have been overlooked on a carbon shaft, but the Ti shaft earned them the attention they deserved. 

Titanium makes cool blue sparks when you grind it. 

Bernie


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## Bogus1 (Jul 5, 2006)

I think Ti's scratch resistance has been a bit over rated. I have had more than one Ti light that was scratched and dinged so bad one would have thought it was bare aluminum. From my experience it marks just about as easily, but the marks don't seem to go as deep. If you EDC a Ti light it will look like it. Just as with bare aluminum; whether you can buff out the marks all depends on how severe the marks are.


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## Data (Jul 5, 2006)

FirstDsent said:


> I underestand that crash must have been horrifying. However, thousands of times more people have been killed or maimed due to failure of steel or aluminum alloy parts. The material is irrelevant. Every material can fail if the part is poorly designed, poorly made, poorly maintained, or used inappropriately. If Clay's part failed, it wasn't designed, inspected, maintained, or used correctly. Titanium is a perfectly good material if it is used correctly.
> 
> . . . Bernie



The reason they used a Ti part was because it is the best material for that application! Racing pushes the limits. In that case the designer just pushed it too far.

Bogus1, you need to stop putting all those large diamond money clips in your pocket with your Ti lights!  

Cheers
Dave


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## ouchmyfinger (Jul 5, 2006)

I too agree that 'scratch resistance' of bare titanium is a myth. I have carried a few different ti items in my pockets, including lights and moneyclips. Mainly only together with other common pocket items, such as keys, change, or maybe a lighter. In my experience, the bare ti scratches much more easily than anodized aluminum. It is harder to scratch than bare aluminum, perhaps, but then so are most metal objects you'd have in your pocket.

I should say that I do indeed like ti as a material for pocketable items, I don't mind my EDC items showing a bit of wear, as long as they still function. But it scratches.



Bogus1 said:


> I think Ti's scratch resistance has been a bit over rated. I have had more than one Ti light that was scratched and dinged so bad one would have thought it was bare aluminum. From my experience it marks just about as easily, but the marks don't seem to go as deep. If you EDC a Ti light it will look like it. Just as with bare aluminum; whether you can buff out the marks all depends on how severe the marks are.


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## McGizmo (Jul 5, 2006)

It has been my experience that Ti will scratch in use as others have stated. I have seen examples of Ti that has been heat treated or welded leaving what I believe is _alpha_ molecular or crystal structure on the surface and in this condition, it will not scratch easily at all!!! However it can be so brittle that if the application provides enough force, the part can snap! I have done some welds that were contaminated and the surface is difficult to break through even with a grinding wheel or diamond grit.

A company I worked for back in the '70's made some 6-4 hydrolic fluid fitings which were heat treated and these had a dark smokey colored surface and one that did not scratch easily.

Ti Oxide is reasonably hard but so thin that it can be removed in wear and abrasion. This is one reason you don't see more colored or anodized parts. Unless the colored surface is recessed or protected from abraision, it will polish and scratch out over time. :shrug:


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## Anglepoise (Jul 5, 2006)

The thing that worries me about Ti is its terrible lack of heat transmission.
It is so bad that if you are not careful when machining ,it is very easy to overheat the cutter. Fine material to use in a marine environment with low ma
drivers. Who is using their Ti light every day and are they having overheating problems? I have not seen much discussion on this, but am interested as I am about to make a TI light and getting rid of the built up heat is my number one priority.


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## McGizmo (Jul 5, 2006)

david,
I avoided use of Ti for a couple years for that very reason. However, I am not so clear that the problem is a big one if the light does have a reasonable heat sink (non titanium) and is driven at reasonable current levels. The Ti lights I have built do get warm to hold in a reasonably quick fashion and of course ultimate steady state temp is as much a function of the heat getting transfered beyond the light as it is through the light. Ti will give you a greater delta of temperature between the slug and your hand but this delta may well be within acceptable limits. I think there are applications and design parameters which will preclude the use of Ti due to thermal considerations but with the brighter and more efficient LED's, I think there are many applications and designs where Ti is permissible and possibly desireable even if less than ideal, purely on a thermal basis. The more I mess with this stuff, the more I realize that the big picture is not always a sum of assumed parts! I have encountered aluminium flashlights that drive the LED just as hard but don't get warm to the touch to speak of. I believe these are a case of some significant thermal resistance within even though the material of the light seems ideal. One bad design does not justify one not as bad but there are levels of inefficiencies and resistance that are acceptable if not ideal. There are some designs in use now that simply don't have enough thermal mass regardless of its conductivity and yet these lights are performing at acceptable levels of output (likely at levels measurably below those which would be present if the LED were cooler).


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## Halibut (Jul 5, 2006)

Anglepoise said:


> The thing that worries me about Ti is its terrible lack of heat transmission.
> It is so bad that if you are not careful when machining ,it is very easy to overheat the cutter. Fine material to use in a marine environment with low ma
> drivers. Who is using their Ti light every day and are they having overheating problems? I have not seen much discussion on this, but am interested as I am about to make a TI light and getting rid of the built up heat is my number one priority.



My TiCub is my EDC and I almost never use it at full power for extended periods of time, so heat never seems to be an issue.

-Dan


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## Tritium (Jul 5, 2006)

Titanium is more scratch resistant than most metals but at a mohs hardness of 6 it will be scratched by dust and dirt which are mainly quartz at a mohs hardness of 7. I have a titanium wedding band which is scratched beyond belief from contact with dust and dirt.


Thurmond


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## Anglepoise (Jul 5, 2006)

McGizmo said:


> david,
> I avoided use of Ti for a couple years for that very reason. However, I am not so clear that the problem is a big one if the light does have a reasonable heat sink (non titanium) and is driven at reasonable current levels. .



Don,
I have designed the LED heat sink and switch area to be solid aluminium. This 'block' will be press fit into the Ti and then the aluminium bored out to fit the internals.
I am hoping this will help and appreciate your comments. Now reasonable drive levels is the next hurdle and will be kept lower than normal.
Thanks


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## BigHonu (Jul 5, 2006)

Regarding Ti and scratch resistance:

All of the items that I own in Ti scratch just as easily as my stainless, aluminum, and brass items. Still, for some reason, the scratches in the Ti seem to fade out and become less noticeable. Some of the marks on the bracelet of my Ti watch from 'desk diving' are barely noticeable while the marks on my stainless band stand out readily.


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## TranquillityBase (Jul 5, 2006)

Lacey Underall: Would you like to tie me up with some of your ties, Ty?


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## voodoogreg (Jul 8, 2006)

This was a fruitful thread, and fun but as it applies to most threads, really not _that_ important or of great concern to me. 
But i would like to know why it got moved from the GFD forum to C/M/M/M forum? and no (that I could find) "moved" thread marker? a similar thread "List of titainium light's" http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124047
was not?
That thread was the far more involved on custom light's then mine, and, as my title suggests: "Part II" a sort of adendum to that thread. It took me a while to find my thread as it may have for other's, and I was enjoying reading other's take on this topic..
Anyhoo, thanks for post's your opinions all! VDG


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## Solstice (Jul 9, 2006)

I have an all Ti watch (Skagen) and a Ti key-tool (bottle opener/screwdriver) on my keychain. The watch looks pretty much like new (over a year use). The key tool has a matte finish from micro-scratches but looks new as well.

Personally, I love Ti because it really does seem as strong as steel (esp. when compared with Al) but weighs far less and won't corrode. As far as I am concerned, Ti is always an improvement on a non-Ti based design.


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## xochi (Jul 9, 2006)

It trully is a shame that exclusivity and machineability can have such an impact on the use of a material. I am seriously curious as what would happen in terms of flashlight usage if anodized aluminum and titanium cost the same to use in a light. Granted, it's an unanswerable question and I guess a pointless post but, at least you all know I'm wondering.


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