# Aren't candles still best for power outage?



## LEDrock (Nov 15, 2008)

I've been using simple candles for power outages, and I actually like them better than flashlights for general lighting. A flashlight (my preference is LED) is still needed when I want to move around alot from room to room, but a candle seems unbeatable for lighting up a room for long periods of time. A 12" taper candle can last for 9 hours! It doesn't degrade with age like batteries, and nothing can corrode. I just appreciate that simplicity!

Does anyone else here still hold candles in high regard even with the big advancements in flashlights that we now have?


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## Isak Hawk (Nov 15, 2008)

Candles are ok, but can be a big fire hazard if you're not careful. Never leave a candle alone, especially if there are children or pets in the house!


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## Coaster (Nov 15, 2008)

During power outages I use a hurricane lamp to light the main room of the house we're usually in. We use flashlights from there to venture to the kitchen or to the bathroom.


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## glockboy (Nov 15, 2008)

+1
In Houston, H. Ike there a few house that burn down because of candles.



Isak Hawk said:


> Candles are ok, but can be a big fire hazard if you're not careful. Never leave a candle alone, especially if there are children or pets in the house!


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## NeonLights (Nov 15, 2008)

For stationary use, like to light a room, during a power outage, I prefer candles. We always use them in an appropriate holder though. For moving around, a flashlight is always better IMO


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## Illum (Nov 15, 2008)

:shrug:
I'll stfu until I can find some convincing evidence of this


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## Oddjob (Nov 15, 2008)

While I appreciate the simplicity and even the ambience candles provide, I would be affraid to leave one burning unattended for fear of one of my animals knocking it over or whatever you can imagine may happen. Candles should be included in everyone's emergency supplies but care should obviously be taken due to their nature.


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## NeonLights (Nov 15, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> don't expect candles to work like furnaces with a low oxygen sensor, you will pass out from high carbon dioxide levels in an enclosed room way before you notice a flicker :shrug:
> 
> if your going to work with fire, open slits in windows across rooms, I did just that last time we sat out an evacuation from a hurricane/flood warning...power was out for a week...


Are you serious? Do you have any clue how many candles you'd have to have burning for how long in a very small (sealed) room to have any noticeable effect on oxygen levels? Personal experience with this? 

Growing up we frequently had candles or kerosene lanterns burning, and my wife of 14 years used to sell candles and often has candles burning for decoration around the house. Neither of us has ever experienced or heard of any problems like you suggested. Heck, the gas vent-free fireplace in our living room has a much bigger flame than if we had two dozen candles burning at one time, and it has never been an issue. 

For centuries before electricity people used cnadles and lanterns for light inside their houses, and I can't seem to recall any widespread reports of people passing out or dying from high carbon dioxide levels (and no, they didn't leave their windows cracked in the middle of winter either).


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## LukeA (Nov 15, 2008)

A 9 in. candle weighing 58.3g will consume between 72L and 144L of oxygen in its (complete) combustion. That means it will render between 361L and 722L of air unbreatheable. In English measurements, that's between 12.7ft^3 and 25.5ft^3. In a 10*10ft room, that's a layer of air over the floor between 1.5in. and 3in. high. 

I wouldn't worry about it too much.


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## csshih (Nov 16, 2008)

The warmth of the candle light tint makes me want to use them. I get those tea-light candles that they seem to sell for 3$ for 100.


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 16, 2008)

I used to like candles but a single 5mm LED IMO is a lot brighter to me and no annoying flickering plus no worries about where to put it so you don't knock it over and burn the place down. No fumbling with lighting on.... with a flashlight!.... lol yes when power goes out you have to find candles and light them with flashlights to use them if you don't carry a lighter.


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## glockboy (Nov 16, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> lol yes when power goes out you have to find candles and light them with flashlights to use them if you don't carry a lighter.


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 16, 2008)

Personally, for me, the point of hanging out on CPF and having lots of flashlights is that I do not have to resort to fire.

:shrug:

Sure if I am freezing I'd light up the fireplace but just for the sake of light I will stick to my Milky Boxter on mizer mode with an 18650. I forget how many hundred hours it will run on low, it's in the 400's. So that beats the runtime of a candle and is safer.


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## Illum (Nov 16, 2008)

NeonLights said:


> Are you serious? Do you have any clue how many candles you'd have to have burning for how long in a very small (sealed) room to have any noticeable effect on oxygen levels? Personal experience with this?



When I was young my hobby was collecting candles before I made my way into flashlights. Using whatever allowance I have, I can fill a 14' by 18' room with candles until I'm left with a 2' wide walkway in the middle...this was when I was 8, I'm 22 now

Come to think of it I can't really prove that it could be hazardous, but I do remember I had the worst headaches whenever I might multiple candles in an enclosed room, but I never got tired of seeing fire dancing beside me so I never quit from it. I've always thought it was the CO/CO2 levels increasing, guess not:candle:

Either way, leaving a candle burning unattended in an enclosed room is generally a bad idea, I've always been warned that under low levels of oxygen any flame source will begin to emit carbon monoxide, or CO...colorless, tasteless, but deadly. But since LukeA so generously calculated the resultants, I'll edit it out 



NeonLights said:


> For centuries before electricity people used cnadles and lanterns for light inside their houses, and I can't seem to recall any widespread reports of people passing out or dying from high carbon dioxide levels (and no, they didn't leave their windows cracked in the middle of winter either).



I don't think centuries ago people used caulk under doors and windows, uses multi-layer insulation in walls...what I'm getting to is that modern houses are pretty well sealed compared to ones built 10 years ago...let alone 100


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## 83Venture (Nov 17, 2008)

When using candles be careful. One of the CPF senior members died not to long ago in a fire caused be candles. When I use one it is in a candle lantern.


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 17, 2008)

I wonder how many deaths have been caused by candles?


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## Woods Walker (Nov 17, 2008)

Candles are still good. Even better for late fall/ winter camping. I can run a candle lantern inside my floorless shelter and add about 10 extra degrees to my shelter. Oh they don’t need lithium batteries to run all night at sub freezing temps. Plus the tint seem warm.


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## LukeA (Nov 18, 2008)

Woods Walker said:


> Candles are still good. Even better for late fall/ winter camping. I can run a candle lantern inside my floorless shelter and add about 10 extra degrees to my shelter. Oh they don’t need lithium batteries to run all night at sub freezing temps. Plus the tint seem warm.



I've got one of those too. I thought about mentioning it, but I had forgotten what it was called.


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## carling (Nov 18, 2008)

They're not necessarily the "best" but there's something about candles that draws me into using them even with "better" lights around. :candle:


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 18, 2008)

I remember growing up when you had the choice of candles or 2D flashlights or 6v lanterns or a coleman gas lantern for light when power went out. With LEDs.... the 2D lights run for days instead of hours, lanterns run for weeks instead of half a day off of fuel. There are AA based lights that run for 24 hours or more at more than candle level lighting so candles are no longer an *only* choice vs expensive alternative ones.


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## broadgage (Nov 21, 2008)

LukeA said:


> A 9 in. candle weighing 58.3g will consume between 72L and 144L of oxygen in its (complete) combustion. That means it will render between 361L and 722L of air unbreatheable. In English measurements, that's between 12.7ft^3 and 25.5ft^3. In a 10*10ft room, that's a layer of air over the floor between 1.5in. and 3in. high.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it too much.


 
Indeed, and that is in a completely sealed room which is never achieved in all but special purpose construction, not in a home.

All common building materials such as wood, brick, sheetrock etc are slightly porous.
No normal dwelling has perfectly fitting doors and windows either, and of course the door(s) and possibly the windows are opened from time to time.
Natural ventilation in an aparprently well sealed room will be at least several air changes a day, and often much more.

For long term power failures, candles in secure wall mounted holders are very suitable.
In cold climates the warmth is welcome also, since most heating is reliant on electricity (not all I know)


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 21, 2008)

CDC
OSHA
Red Cross
NOAA
FEMA

All the above websites caution against the use of candles during blackout's and other emergency situations except the Red Cross, they say right out to NOT use them. I find that interesting. 

I guess the government figures we're to stupid to use them safely.
Pardon me, I must now go out and buy some candles.


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 21, 2008)

This is an old but interesting aticle on candles causing fires
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20040921/candles-cause-more-home-fires


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## NeonLights (Nov 21, 2008)

broadgage said:


> Indeed, and that is in a completely sealed room which is never achieved in all but special purpose construction, not in a home.


This reminds me of something my brother-in-law passed on to me. He is a contractor for high-end homes, and had a special request from the homeowner he was building a house for, for some specialized insulation in the house that is sprayed in between the studs, kinda like the expanding foam stuff, only on a much larger scale. Cost $100k to insulate the house this way, and he also had hardwood floors. My bro-in-law warned him this could be a problem, but the homeowner didn't listen, and the hardwood floors started to warp and bow because the rooms were sealed so well and there was no good control of humidity or ventilation (when the HVAC system wasn't on).


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## labrat (Nov 22, 2008)

Just got the power back after a 2 hour long blackout here in central Oslo, in Norway.
I guess the power was out in about 5-6 blocks around here, but then outside this area all the power was still working.
Seeing lot's of people navigating along the pavements with their cell-phones, and also down in our garage system in the basement a guy trying to find his way out using the cell-phone.
Actually the Surefire E1e with a Strion-bulb and a RCR123 cell was more than sufficient to see from one end of the garage to the farthest corner!
But then it was completely black down there!
No working emergency lights, completely dark.
And looking at the windows in the houses from the outside, most had candles burning inside in their apartments.
And of course, an hour after the power went off, the first fire-truck was blazing it's way up the street, did not see where it went!


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## gallagho (Nov 22, 2008)

No mention of milkycandles yet? I have two just waiting for an outage!


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## jrmcferren (Nov 23, 2008)

Candles are fine in my book as long as you can be safe with them. They provide a decent spectrum output. For really long durations either a kerosene lantern or a kerosene lamp would be better due to the runtime. I do have a candle story (close call) that I would like to share.

I was a freshman an High School in a word processing class. Well I went to hand my work to the teacher and I just laid it on her desk. I wasn't paying attention and I didn't realize until maybe a fraction of second later that I laid it right on top of a candle . I picked the paper back up and it was not even charred. That was a close call. This was when the power was on.


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## SafetyBob (Nov 24, 2008)

4 D [email protected] bucking 4 alkalines with one SHO MicroPuck with a nice Seoul 3300K P4 led and it runs in excess of 4 days.......nonstop. No more candles for me.

Bob E.


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## elmejor (Dec 6, 2008)

Isak Hawk said:


> Candles are ok, but can be a big fire hazard if you're not careful. Never leave a candle alone, especially if there are children or pets in the house!


well safety and careful usage is required in everything, how ever big or small, technologically advanced or not. but at least the usage doesnt give us huge bills, i am 'for' the use of candle


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## Cobweb Hunter (Dec 30, 2008)

Candles are best if Ma and I are home alone.


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## greenlight (Dec 30, 2008)

Are candles more likely to burn down your house if the power is off than any other time? I suspect that the idiots who burn their houses down with unsafe candle usage are apt to do it at any time, regardless of power conditions.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 30, 2008)

actually I would guess more fires happen in power outages mainly because people are not used to using candles often and get careless with them. They light a candle and leave it unattended and probably don't have smoke alarms near where the candles are either.
The people that use candles more often most likely are used to being more cautious.


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## f22shift (Dec 30, 2008)

during my pre cpf times i used tealights with a lantern case that would reduce a risk.





i still use the tealights during camping for accent lighting around the campsite(dirt campsite)


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## Guy's Dropper (Jan 7, 2009)

I love candles. Most of the time, I'd prefer a candle or an oil lantern to a flashlight if indoors. They can be perfectly safe if you are careful where you place them and don't leave them alone for too long.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jan 7, 2009)

I have candles for *trade goods* during power outages -- but only for those who live more than a couple hundred feet away from me. I don't live in earthquake country but it's still a bad idea.


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## James Hamon (Jan 9, 2009)

One of the reasons they recommend against candles is in cases of earthquakes with broken gas lines which can obviously start a flame ive always heard stories of that happening but dont know if their true or not.


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## Jay R (Jan 9, 2009)

Guy's Dropper said:


> They can be perfectly safe if you are careful where you place them and don't leave them alone for too long.


 
That's a bit like saying that a hand grenade is pefectly safe after you pull the pin as long as you don't let it go....

I think having a naked flame in a house at anytime is a bad idea if you can use something else. Only time I have one is when I flame the Christmas Pudding.


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## Phaserburn (Jan 9, 2009)

I use candles fairly often in my home; my children are used to it, like it, and respect it. We light candles on our dinner table each night.

Like many things, candles require care. How many people injure themselves with power tools each year? Burn their house down because they smoke indoors, or better yet, in bed?

My point is, if you are responsible, you are ok. If you aren't sure if you are, you probably aren't. To para-quote Clint Eastwood: "Man's got to know his limitations..."


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## Sub_Umbra (Jan 9, 2009)

> I use candles fairly often in my home; my children are used to it, like it, and respect it. We light candles on our dinner table each night.
> 
> Like many things, candles require care. How many people injure themselves with power tools each year? Burn their house down because they smoke indoors, or better yet, in bed?
> 
> My point is, *if you are responsible, you are ok.* If you aren't sure if you are, you probably aren't. To para-quote Clint Eastwood: "Man's got to know his limitations..."


Emphasis mine.

Actually, one would *also* have to count on his *next door neighbors* (and *their childern*) to be responsible with *their candles* during a blackout since the repercussions of one's misadventure *may not always be confined to one's own property.* While one could counter with logic similar to the above quote that whole blocks of houses occasionally burn down *even when the power is on* -- that is not much of an argument for _increasing it's chances of happening_ by using candles during an emergency -- an emergency which may also cause many to use things like white gas stoves and other potentially hazardous devices that the user has not become familiar with through daily use.

I would also note that people who can't plan well enough to have a flashlight when the power goes out will also rarely bother to consider that while many of the systems that they are used to in their homes are failing all around them their city's *police, fire and emergenciy medical services* will literally be working overtime to provide some semblance of 'Public Safety' for the taxpayer during the outage. 

One Pak-Lite and the battery included with it will provide ~600 hours of light on low that is brighter and far safer than any candle's output. To me burning candles at a time when all emergency services may be stretched to their limits is much like deciding to drive faster _just because there is ice on the roads._


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## Fat_Tony (Jan 9, 2009)

Sub_Umbra said:


> Emphasis mine.
> To me burning candles at a time when all emergency services may be stretched to their limits is much like deciding to drive faster _just because there is ice on the roads._



I agree with the above quote by Sub_Umbra 100%. Using candles may provide an aesthetic value for you, csshih, but in a blackout, I find that led lights, led lanterns, and even glowsticks are more useful, and less dangerous.



> I have candles for _*trade goods*_ during power outages -- but only for those who live more than a couple hundred feet away from me.



Pretty cynical, Sub_Umbra.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jan 9, 2009)

Sub_Umbra said:


> I have candles for *trade goods* during power outages -- but only for those who live more than a couple hundred feet away from me. I don't live in earthquake country but it's still a bad idea.





> ...Pretty cynical, Sub_Umbra.


I'll cop to being cynical but I think it's more *pragmatic* than anything else. I just don't want to contribute to _burning down my own house._ While I failed to mention it in the earlier post, I've lent *LED lights, cells* and *radios* to those who live *closest* to me during past outages when I found out that they had *only* candles. (Gustav, Ike) Also, while I have described the candles truthfully as 'trade goods', I did not buy them (back in the 20th century) with that intent and I have not ever traded away any of them. It's just that whenever the power goes out for an extended period of time they aquire the option of being 'trade goods'. That's why they've been in my freezer for 20 years and have never gotten used or thrown out. I'm very big on having as many options as I can in any crisis.


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## Fat_Tony (Jan 9, 2009)

Sub_Umbra said:


> I'll cop to being cynical but I think it's more *pragmatic* than anything else. I just don't want to contribute to _burning down my own house._ While I failed to mention it in the earlier post, I've lent *LED lights, cells* and *radios* to those who live *closest* to me during past outages when I found out that they had *only* candles. (Gustav, Ike) Also, while I have described the candles truthfully as 'trade goods', I did not buy them (back in the 20th century) with that intent and I have not ever traded away any of them. It's just that whenever the power goes out for an extended period of time they aquire the option of being 'trade goods'. That's why they've been in my freezer for 20 years and have never gotten used or thrown out. I'm very big on having as many options as I can in any crisis.



Fair enough, Sub_Umbra. So, why do you keep them in your freezer? Does this 'preserve' them, somehow?

Thanks,

Joe


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## Sub_Umbra (Jan 9, 2009)

Fat_Tony said:


> Fair enough, Sub_Umbra. So, why do you keep them in your freezer? Does this 'preserve' them, somehow?


*Yes.* I live in the sub-tropics (New Orleans) so ½ of the time it's *fully tropical* here. Many in the South store candles, candy bars and all kinds of other things in the freezer that would seem odd to those who live in more temperate climes.


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## jtr1962 (Jan 9, 2009)

Bad idea, period, especially when we have other lighting options we could have only dreamed about ten years ago. Most residential house fires are started by one of two things-smoking or burning candles. Neither of these things are even remotely necessary to do. Most of the other causes of fire also involve things with flames, such as kerosene heaters, being used indoors (hence the reason kerosene heaters and working fireplaces are _illegal_ to use in NYC). While some may use candles responsibly, the sad fact is quite a few can't or won't. No point stressing already stretched emergency services by using a lighting option which is obsolete by any reasonable definition. The big problem with starting a fire is you don't know which way it'll go. If I have an idiot neighbor who smokes despite the known health dangers, or burns candles "for atmosphere", I don't care if he only burns his house down. However, it's entirely possible he'll burn mine down too.


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## arpit (Jan 10, 2009)

Candles are good fun. Just be careful with them, and treat them like you would a gas stove. Be especially careful of curtains. Often, if the power goes out, your curtains will blow around more than usual. 

Re. The person who doesn't like naked flames - I take it you don't like gas stoves either?

Re. The people talking about carbon dioxide and oxygen - it really doesn't matter how much carbon dioxide the candle produces. 
If you have many candles going, however, you should watch out for Carbon Monoxide. This is CO not CO2. It's extremely toxic, and is created by incomplete combustion - i.e. sooty yellow flames. A flame which produces little carbon monoxide will be blue or almost colourless.

For carbon monoxide to kill you, it doesn't need to displace the oxygen in your room. It just needs to displace the oxygen in your blood. This is rather easy, as the haemoglobin oxygen transporter in your blood stream likes carbon monoxide much more than it does oxygen.

Candlewax has about 20-30 carbon atoms in a molecule, so, for the sake of simplicity, I shall summarise the combustion reaction such: Obviously the proportion of CO, CO2 and H20 is extremely variable in reality - this is just an example.

C30H62 (g) + 38(O2) (g) ------------> 15(CO) (g) + 15(CO2) (g) + 31(H2O) (g) + Heat


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## Sub_Umbra (Jan 11, 2009)

> ...Re. The person who doesn't like naked flames - I take it you don't like gas stoves either?...


That comparison sounds like apples and oranges to me and appears to be a gross generality. What kind of gas stove are you talking about? You don't say. If you were writing about the gas stoves that are permanently installed in typical kitchens throughout the West I'd say *there's no comparison at all.* They will be used in the location *where they were installed* -- with very little hazard *when compared to candles.* While you are careful to warn the foolhardy not to use candles too close to curtains that is not an issue with the modern kitchen gas range. It is much safer precisely because it is permanently installed in one location and cannot be moved around willy-nilly by any idot -- like the candles you've already (and rightly) warned against. 

While open flames should always be taken seriously in any outage when emergency services may be operating at less than normal speed and capacity, the sheer portability of the candle means that any dolt may pretty much light one up *anywhere* he desires with no thought to the ramafications of his decision whatsoever. That *entire class* of hazard has been totally eliminated with the typical kitchen gas stove because Joe (or Jane) Idiot *can't move it* to whatever loopy location they fancy using it at at any given moment. That hazard has been successfully *engineered* out of the kitchen stove long ago.


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## jusval (Jan 11, 2009)

Boy candles are so unsafe. I got to go read some history books. How did all those millions of people during all those hundreds of years live without flashlights? I mean whole generations should have just up and died off or something.:devil:

We had no electricity till I was at least 6 or 7. We had no flashlights. We used fire. Candles some, but mostly kerosene lanterns. We had a coal burning furnace (nasty) and mostly we learned to walk around in the dark (eyes get accustomed). Times have changed so much, but I still use candles......:candle:

We didn't have indoor plumbing either, till I was about 10. Try going to the outhouse in the middle of winter (with or without a flashlight), or worse yet, the middle of summer! :sick2: But that's another story......


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## kongfuchicken (Jan 11, 2009)

jusval said:


> Boy candles are so unsafe. I got to go read some history books. How did all those millions of people during all those hundreds of years live without flashlights? I mean whole generations should have just up and died off or something.:devil



They were a lot more skilled, meticulous and careful with using fire than we are and lived on to invent chemical extinguishers and insurance companies.


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## paulr (Jan 11, 2009)

Plus they also died like flies. Anyone remember Mrs. O'Leary's cow?

Anyway, I've recently seen some LED gizmos involving a yellow led and a diffuser, where the led is controlled by a circuit that makes it "flicker". It's basically indistinguishable from an actual candle. They had them on the table of a restaurant I visited a few weeks ago and I had to look really closely to figure out that it was electronic. So if you want candle-like ambiance, I'd go for something like that. I think I've seen them for sale on DX and such places. 

For power outages though, romantic ambiance is probably the least of your worries. Go for straightforward led lights.


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## zx7dave (Jan 12, 2009)

LEDrock said:


> I've been using simple candles for power outages, and I actually like them better than flashlights for general lighting. A flashlight (my preference is LED) is still needed when I want to move around alot from room to room, but a candle seems unbeatable for lighting up a room for long periods of time. A 12" taper candle can last for 9 hours! It doesn't degrade with age like batteries, and nothing can corrode. I just appreciate that simplicity!
> 
> Does anyone else here still hold candles in high regard even with the big advancements in flashlights that we now have?


 
I do have a few candles (including a Milky candle) but I have to say when power goes out I am reaching for my low power LED's (80 to 120 lumens) which mostly run on 18650's which give me close to your 9 hour mark..especially my M60WLL from Gene..his is good for 8+ hours although I have not personally done a runtime test.
So with the entry of rechargeable (Guilt Free Lumens) unless it is a prolonged outage (more than 4-5 days) my stockpile of 18650's and backup supply of CR123's will take care of me...
But until Scott perfects his "flickering" for his Milky Candle I do still like the traditional candle for the romantic side...


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## manoloco (Jan 12, 2009)

one big plus for the for the candles in a "romantic ambiance" is the smell, scented candles or even unscented ones do smell (wax smell is kinda nice, not the burning wick)

But for other uses, yes a led is way more efficient and safe, i had an aunt and uncle stay in my house many years ago, they went to sleep and left a candle on a candleholder BESIDES the tv, luckily i was heading for the bathroom so when i passed the room i saw a flame, it was the tv plastic shell burning and melting, first thing i did was unplug it and then slapped it with a blanket, of course they were still asleep until i started slapping the thing, good thing the fire was not spread further.

the room then started to smell intensely as burned plastic, but everything was ok. no more candles for practical illumination purposes, and we started using cheap krypton bulb incans at that time (Rayovac roughneck comes to mind), although i do have some candles stashed just in case in a safe place.

candles have many disadvantages, you cant open a window if its windy, you cant move around fast with them, you need to be extremely careful with them, you cant search appropiately (try that ball that went rolling on the floor, looking under the couches is impossible in a safe way), the flame moves too much and makes reading uncomfortable, and moves the shadows too much for looking around, and a long list of etc. 

they are effective in extreme cases were batteries are not around, or to heat up or burn something.


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## brucec (Jan 12, 2009)

Hey, if the power is out, the computer is out, the TV is out, and you've already eaten dinner, candles help set the mood for killing a few hours before bedtime...


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## paulr (Jan 12, 2009)

I seem to remember that a lumen is defined as 1 standard candlepower concentrated into a 1 steradian cone. So a perfectly isotropic candle would be 4*pi = about 12.5 lumens. In practice a real candle might be about half that. I'd stick with leds. A Gerber IU style light will put out 6 or so lumens on one AA cell for 24 hours or something like that, roughly comparable to a candle. If you have a 4-pack of Eneloop nimh cells around, you should be able to run low powered led lights for several days worth of use. Then when they need a recharge, go out to your car and plug your 15 minute nimh charger into the cig lighter socket, plop in the Eneloops and in a quarter hour you're good to go again.


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## asdalton (Jan 12, 2009)

paulr said:


> Plus they also died like flies. Anyone remember Mrs. O'Leary's cow?



Or worse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshtigo_Fire


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## ddawg16 (Feb 2, 2009)

Candles have their uses....long shelf life.......and with no power for TV and the kids in bed.....puts the wife in a really 'good' mood.:twothumbs

But may I suggest something else? You know that UPS that you have your computer hooked up to? (and I'm sure everyone has a UPS for their computer) Well, it does a great job of keeping a CFL lamp alive for a couple of hours or more.....that's assuming you turn off the computer...


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## f22shift (Feb 2, 2009)

i tested a tea light and it it's pretty useful in keep a kettle water pretty hot(post boiled by some other manner). it seemed to last forever too. 
so really i could use an alcohol stove to boil a pot of water and the tealight is useful for simmering i suppose..

i wonder if in an emergency, running one in a standed car in the winter, would heat in the interior adequately or just a bad idea all around with burning of oxygen and such.


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## AuroraAlpha (Feb 24, 2009)

I like a simple, glass, oil lamp like the following:
http://www.wolfard.com/goldlamps.html

The best are a little shorter, and a little while, but the inside part is the same (Also, who needs a gold top?). They are very hard to tip, last a LONG time, and are easy to refill without putting out the flame if you need to. Also no werid smells that everyone loves to sell candles with, or the werid dust they can pick up from storage.

A flashlight is still great for getting it started and moving around, or when you need light in a small spot. But most flashlights don't light a room well, just a part of one. A candle goes in every direction.


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## LukeA (Feb 24, 2009)

f22shift said:


> i tested a tea light and it it's pretty useful in keep a kettle water pretty hot(post boiled by some other manner). it seemed to last forever too.



Tea lights last 4 hours.


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## Phaserburn (Feb 25, 2009)

AuroraAlpha said:


> But most flashlights don't light a room well, just a part of one. A candle goes in every direction.


 
That's why you also need to pick up a couple of lanterns... propane, fluoro, led... they're all good.


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## Jimson (Jan 7, 2013)

*Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....*



AuroraAlpha said:


> A flashlight is still great for getting it started and moving around, or when you need light in a small spot. But most flashlights don't light a room well, just a part of one. A candle goes in every direction.



Candles can be used safely, but they do need to be enclosed. Making your own 'candle lamp' is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Sitting beside my computer stand is a 1 gallon wide-mouth pickle jar with a metal lid. (The wide-mouth part is important unless you've got an undersized hand) The original metal lid has a 3/4 inch central hole, and surrounding it out towards the rim is a ring of smaller pencil-sized holes. The inspiration for this came from a commercial product I saw a few years ago.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0031I0PAI/?tag=cpf0b6-20

"$0.49 + $4.49 shipping" - you can see why I make my own!

As it happens, none of the wide-mouth glass jars I've seen have flat bottoms, so I have to do that by myself too. In my chosen jar I put a bit of junk wax - enough when melted to completely cover the bottom. Set inside a 200 degree oven it melts and makes the smooth flat surface I need to hold my candle or candle holder. After it cools and hardens, it's ready to go. Set the candle inside, centered as well as possible. Light the candle with a long match or long-snouted butane lighter, and screw on the lid. Hot gas from the flame flows straight up the central hole, and incoming air flows smoothly down the sides. If you've done everything right, the flame is as steady as a rock - it looks like a glowing little light bulb without a hint of a flicker. And IMO it's pretty darned safe! No open flame, and there is no liquid fuel to instantly set the room afire if it gets knocked over. 

The screw-on lid is a frill, and one I tried just to see how much trouble it was. (quite a lot, actually) I could have used a six inch square of heavy aluminum foil in which I'd precut the central hole. Carefully fold the foil (with the hole centered) over the mouth of the glass containr to mark things, then take it back off and cut around the mark with scissors. Back on again, and punch the holes with a sharp pencil. Voila! It's ready for the candle.

By using aluminum foil any old vase or jar will do - it just needs to be clear glass and have an opening large enough for your hand to go inside while holding the candle.

Now to the flashlight. In my view there is no competition - they're better. A 8 lumen beam pointed at a white ceiling makes plenty of light to navigate, and without a naked flame to mess up your eyesight.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PZPB2I/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Total piece of crap of a flashlight except for one thing - it has a low-draw PR LED bulb. I've run one of these for several days - day and night - on one D cell alkaline. If you buy one of them shipped with the batteries, check to see the bulb base wasn't smashed during transport. Lots are! The ones without an included battery are better prospects. Walmart is now selling a similar one which doesn't have quite as good an LED bulb, but the flashlight itself is better - it has a screw-on bulb protector. 

Now a person can buy 2-3 of these cheap LED flashlights for the cost of one big candle. And they can be run in perfect safety. Opinions vary, but as I said earlier, I'll take the flashlight every time.

Now on to the latest "emergency lighting". 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005QGEAUY/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I've never seen one, but I suppose it would work fine.

Again, I've been making my own. Buy one of those solar LED sidewalk lights. Take out the cheap AAA or AA or 3/4 AA nicad and throw it away. Replace the AAA or AA with alkalines, and you've got a really cheap emergency light. My test run of one of them had over 100 non-stop hours of decent light from a single AAA battery. 

To make a long-run nightlight for your cabin in the backwoods, drill a hole in the side of the little hockey puck light. Wire up a single D-cell battery holder. I use double stick tape to hold the light and battery to a flat wood or sheet metal board, but velcro under the light would allow recharging if you'd chosen a nicad.

The LEDs in my hockey puck lights varied from 20 ma down to 5 ma. The latter was on orange Halloween lights I got at Dollar Tree last year. I've no idea how long a good D cell would run a 5 ma lamp, but it's got to be something measured in non-stop weeks. That's because I got over ten days of light from one of those Eveready 1 D flashlights at 70 ma.


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## argleargle (Jan 18, 2013)

*Re: Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....*

I see a lot of discussion in this thread on CO/CO2 displacement of oxygen in a room. Sit back and read my little story about that. Don't worry, it has a happy ending. I'm still here.

To those who say it's impossible, *I nearly died one time* about 20 years ago when I was brewing 13 gallons of wine in a small unused office, maybe 15'x8'. The ceiling wasn't so high. I walked in to check the brew and closed the door behind me. My vision started dimming and my knees buckled. Fortunately, a rolling chair behind me caught me perfectly. I barely managed to roll in the chair over to the door and get it open. I was struggling. I almost didn't make it. A wave of fear and desperation flowed through me. With my hands barely functioning, I clawed at the doorknob. Flexing my legs, I managed to pull it open... gasping... gasping for breath. Outside air flowed into the room and I was powerless to stand. I'd used everything I had left to just get the door open. For several minutes, all I could do was sit in the chair. WOW. Before that, I had never thought brewing wine could take me out. After that, I started opening the door and waiting a few minutes before going in to check the wine.

Summary: CO/CO2 displacement of oxygen can be deadly. I learned my lesson the hard way with my ...experience.
_________________________

As far as candles? Yeah, I've got them and love using them when it's cold outside. Get a candle enclosure and don't worry. Most houses are so drafty, they barely retain HVAC. Anyway, I have a metal bowl that I'll melt the candles to for safety. I like the "sparkling birthday" candles for firelighting in my BOB because wind won't put them out and they make a neat sizzling noise. Don't forget the tea candle's hotter cousin, Sterno, if we're talking about prep for power outages. A case of it is cheap and it's fun to play with.

1 candle = 1 candlepower, right? 

Last time there was a power outage, my neighbors were driving around in the dark "looking for batteries." I apparently have to worry about them during an extended outage. These batteries were feeding ancient incans. They couldn't buy gasoline as there was no electricity to operate the pumps. Burning gas they couldn't refill to find batteries they should have already had to feed obsolete flashlights barely pushing any lumens.

Hey Jimson, thanks for mentioning that mason jar lid mod to make a candle enclosure. That's pretty cool. I've decided that I'm going to go make one.


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## SherlockOhms (Jan 18, 2013)

*Re: Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....*



Jimson said:


> Again, I've been making my own. Buy one of those solar LED sidewalk lights. Take out the cheap AAA or AA or 3/4 AA nicad and throw it away. Replace the AAA or AA with alkalines, and you've got a really cheap emergency light. My test run of one of them had over 100 non-stop hours of decent light from a single AAA battery.



I have a couple of those solar LED lights. I put them aside when they stopped working correctly, I think the solar panels don't work right anymore. I put them aside in the garage to tinker with someday. Anyway, your post prompted me to pop some good AAA batteries, and they're about as bright a keychain coincell LED light, typical bright white 5mm LED. Current draw in these cheapies is about 11 ma. A triple A should last a long time in them, although they flicker badly once the voltage drops below 1.1V or so. 

I also have some tealight candles stashed away. So, just for fun, I decided to compare a tealight candle in a glass votive holder to the $2 solar sidewalk LED light. I took them into a dark room one at a time. No contest, the LED is more useful. Even though it's not much brighter than the candle, it's possible to AIM the light where I need it. Try holding a candle sideways to direct the light where it's needed? Uh, doesn't work too well, does it? 

Tealights are going back in the drawer to be reserved for "atmosphere" burning, in an enclosed candle lantern. The LED sidewalk lights (minus the stake and clear plastic bit) will get stashed somewhere else for power failure duty. 

Pre-LED days, I had a couple of kerosene Dietz lanterns that I burned lamp oil in, lamp oil being less stinky than kerosene. I feel like the enclosed flame is safer than an exposed candle flame. Even so, I wouldn't want to leave them burning unattended. Since I got my first LED flashlights, the Kerosene lanterns only get used out in the yard for "atmosphere" lighting on summer evenings.


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## TEEJ (Jan 18, 2013)

*Re: Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....*

If you are amusing yourself during a power outage by reading, reading by dim light, such as from candles, is bad for your eyes. So, if your cat or dog or iguana bumps the table its on and it falls over, and burns the house down, or not, the light is only good enough to not bump into things and enjoy conversations, etc...not reading or doing fine tasks that really require more light than that.

It WOULD take a few candles to use up enough oxygen/release enough CO to be of concern, but some candles produce a lot of soot...which a a PITA to clean off of things later, can trigger allergic/asthmatic symptoms to those sensitive to that sort of thing, etc...



If the candle is in a sturdy/stable holder, and you don't HAVE an iguana or cat, etc...or worry about earthquakes or wind from an open window knocking them over, they're probably fine for most stationary nightlight type uses...if you have a certain risk tolerance.

Lithium ion cells also pose a level of risk, and we take appropriate precautions. I think if you apply that to any scenario, you'll probably be fine.

I have some large tritium tubes...which give off about that much light, except they don't have a flame, need cells or make smoke. So, for a long-term candlelight level solution, the tritium tubes are quite handy....~ 20 years of glowing all by themselves.

I put them into a lantern, and I can add foil to one side if I want to magnify the effect to one side, etc.


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## argleargle (Jan 18, 2013)

*Re: Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....*



TEEJ said:


> I have some large tritium tubes...which give off about that much light, except they don't have a flame, need cells or make smoke. So, for a long-term candlelight level solution, the tritium tubes are quite handy....~ 20 years of glowing all by themselves.
> I put them into a lantern, and I can add foil to one side if I want to magnify the effect to one side, etc



Ahh, but what if your pet bear crunches down on the tubes and they CRACK! All that tritium gas! It must be instasickness there.  

Perhaps an enraged significant other smashes them with a hammer in a fit of significant-other-rage? It's tritium all over the place!

Why, back in the 40s they shut down all kinds of places because of some unaccounted-for tritium. Think of the children!

(yeah, I'm screwing around. It's been over 100 posts. It's time )


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## silver_bacon (Jan 18, 2013)

*Re: Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....*

I still prefer the light of a candle to that of a flashlight. I have a considerable amount of beeswax candles on hand. I rarely ever use candles anymore, but I have plenty of them for those times when an LED just won't suffice.


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## argleargle (Jan 18, 2013)

*Re: Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....*



silver_bacon said:


> I still prefer the light of a candle to that of a flashlight. I have a considerable amount of beeswax candles on hand. I rarely ever use candles anymore, but I have plenty of them for those times when an LED just won't suffice.



Oooh! The holy grail of beeswax candles! Now you're talking some high-end custom stuff, there! Got any pics of your custom candles and some beamshots?  I *LOVE* those things.

(Seriously, beeswax candles with the same profile and wick outperform most other materials... say paraffin for example. Beeswax even smells nice when it burns. It's near perfect and natural. You can even EAT them and they taste nice! Really!)

Don't make me dig out my beeswax medallion candles and tease people!  They are nearing 20 years old. I don't want to burn them just for some beamshots.

I guess I should explain... I've entered beeswax candles into competitions before. Really. My medallion candles took first place at a competition in 1992. (...or WAS it 92... hmm.)


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## Jimson (Jan 27, 2013)

*Re: Well, this IS a "candle power" forum.....*



SherlockOhms said:


> I also have some tealight candles stashed away. So, just for fun, I decided to compare a tealight candle in a glass votive holder to the $2 solar sidewalk LED light. I took them into a dark room one at a time. No contest, the LED is more useful. Even though it's not much brighter than the candle, it's possible to AIM the light where I need it. Try holding a candle sideways to direct the light where it's needed? Uh, doesn't work too well, does it?
> 
> Tealights are going back in the drawer to be reserved for "atmosphere" burning, in an enclosed candle lantern. The LED sidewalk lights (minus the stake and clear plastic bit) will get stashed somewhere else for power failure duty.
> 
> Pre-LED days, I had a couple of kerosene Dietz lanterns that I burned lamp oil in, lamp oil being less stinky than kerosene. I feel like the enclosed flame is safer than an exposed candle flame. Even so, I wouldn't want to leave them burning unattended. Since I got my first LED flashlights, the Kerosene lanterns only get used out in the yard for "atmosphere" lighting on summer evenings.


Whenever I get a batch of those tea lights at a garage sale or second-hand store I throw them in a pile for the next wax melt. For every application I've ever tried they're just too small. Ditto for the "column" models exceeding 2 inch diameter. They're too large, and the flame digs itself a hole in the wax. IMO only standard smaller sizes are worth saving for lighting purposes. 

I make an exception for the monster chunks with 3-6 wicks. In a power-out situation they'd put off a lot of heat without most of the dangers of liquid fuels like kerosene. In fact, with a properly situated pan holder I'd imagine a person could boil some water for coffee or heat a can of soup over one of these. Crack a window in a small room to avoid asphyxiation and you're good to go. 

Several years ago I made myself a bet I could make a usable reading light from a single candle. It took some real finagling, but I finally did manage. Imagine a couple of blocks 8 or more inches high spanned by a large glass from a cheap picture frame. Sit a small candle on the glass directly above where the book/paper will be and light it. Finally, put a large foil-lined metal funnel over the candle with the small end directly above the wick. Since this was an experiment I didn't drill a bunch of holes in the wide rim of the funnel, but instead set it on some small match-sized wood sticks for air to enter.

A very even light is reflected straight down to the reading material under the glass, and I won my bet with myself. 

My next challenge is to make a really good battery-powered reading lamp from an LED flashlight. THAT one I haven't managed quite yet, though I've got some ideas.


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