# Disaster Ready



## HiKing808 (Oct 30, 2006)

ok so bottom line, in the event of a natural disaster i.e. hurricane, earthquake, etc, REALISTICALLY!!! how many days do you think one needs to be ready with illumination, b4 national/world wide help arrives, or power is restored.

oh yeah i live in hawaii, so basically there is no where for me to drive i.e. katrina victims. 

im thinking 3 days. night only last at most 12 hrs i'll sleep through 6 so some where around 36 hrs lets say 50 just to be safe.

what are your thoughts?


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## tebore (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

If it's anything like New Orleans then you would need enough run time to get away from the city and to a new place. Or if you're staying then a few months worth of light.


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## Flying Turtle (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

A few years back (actually 10, I think) when Hurricane Fran came through our area we were without power for ten days. This was about as bad as it's likely to get this far from the coast. Now if I had earthquakes, volcanos, and tsunamis to worry about I'd want to be prepared for worse.

Geoff


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## h2xblive (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Last year, we lost power due to a nasty ice storm. We had no power for about 3.5 days. Since I ran out of batteries, I made a candle holder out of a used CD spindle and a plastic plate.


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## Campdavid (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

The American Red Cross suggests having a disaster kit that will sustain you and your family for 10 days. You would probably not need it for that long, but then again it is "disaster preparedness".


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## Sub_Umbra (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



tebore said:


> If it's anything like New Orleans then you would need enough run time to get away from the city and to a new place. Or if you're staying then a few months worth of light.


Mrs Umbra and I were on the high ground above sea level for Katrina and it's *entire* aftermath. We were very well prepared and in a good house and we hid from the Mayors minions. Our power was out for one day short of *six weeks.* Our phone was out for 7.5 weeks. Natural gas was out much longer.

We used mostly *dim* lights and with just a little thought you can be ready to provide light _for months_ *without having to stock hundreds of cells.* In the entire six weeks our *total use* of our brighter lights only came to *a few minutes when it was all added together.* *This post* may give you an idea for lights that will put you in good stead in an emergency without spending a lot of money on spare cells. Remember that when the power is out for a while your dim lights will seem brighter as you will have more visual purple to work with and much less ambient light to overcome.

*This post* explains why lights with blue/green LEDs were used more than any of our than others. 

It should be remembered that hurricanes are just one of *many threats* that could cause you to have to rely on yourself for six weeks *or more.* Hurricanes at least give you three days warning before impact. Massive power failures, terrorist strikes or a bird flu 'Shelter In Place' quarantine and many other events may strike any urban area with almost unthinkable ramifications for all in the region. _They are all come as you are parties._


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## bigfoot (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

For those interested, this site has GREAT preparedness info, especially on assembling disaster kits. A good forum, too:

www.equipped.org


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## paulr (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

If there's a prolonged power outage I think after a while life becomes not too different from before electricity was invented. Candlelight and torches were used for a few things; if you needed to walk at night, there was the moon; but basically, most activities needing illumination were planned around the availability of sunlight. 

So unless you're doing SAR or something, I think like Sub Umbra, that powerful lights are rarely needed. People do multi-month AT trail hikes with nothing but a Photon II. As a flashaholic I'd want more, e.g. on Hawaii, I'd go for 1) a long running EDC like an Infinity Ultra; 2) some reasonable LED headlamp; 3) something a little more powerful like a Fenix. Run everything on AA NiMH cells, have a solar charger and an Energizer 15 minute charger with 12 volt power plug, letting you recharge in a vehicle. I think that's enough lights for most folks. If you want something monstrously powerful, go for something like a mag85 (NiMH powered) or an SLA spotlight that you charge up from 12 volts.


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## watt4 (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

for starters, have a couple long-runtime AA led lights and a couple dozen AA batteries


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## Lightmania (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Four days of no power after two particular hurricanes last year. In my case, we were lucky to have it back so soon because a lot of people in other areas didn't get it back for about 3 weeks or so. So yes, do get plenty of batteries. Anything LED were the best 'cuz of their runtime. 

Bottom line? Get a generator; we had one running non-stop. Nothing as beautiful as the sound of the generator running in those time. 

I didn't mind those nights, heheh. Real excuses to use flashlights.  Cleaning up the mess is another matter, however. 

Lightmania

oh, I almost forgot. Water. Very important. After one of the hurricane, our water supply was knocked out but that came out ok 'cuz we were well stocked with water. It is probably most important thing to have above all.


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## Lightmania (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Also, if there's a lot of trees around you, it is not a bad idea to have a chain saw handy.

Lightmania


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## Concept (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I live in an area that can be prone to cyclones, but touch wood it has been many years since a decent one has hit. I think there are so many variables, mainly the severity of the cyclone will obviously determine the length of time we are without power. My only saving grace is that we are on an underground supply so there would have to be a decent cyclone hit before we lost power.


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## HiKing808 (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

man where do you guys live??? no offence, but i can't see being without running power and water, for longer than 2 days b4 major help arrives from either the mainland, or other countries. i mean oahu is a major tourist destination, thus i would asume that the disaster infostructure should be in place.i mean at least 1/4th of the people living on the island are probably tourists and who in their right mind packs disaster kits when vacationing in hawaii? aside for a small emergency flashlight of course. 

i mean does anyone know how long those islands victimized by the 04 tsunamis were without power, water, etc, 

but hey thanks for all the responses, and realworld experiences, i guess you never really know until it happens, i mean i bet katrina victims thought help would have arrived alot sooner than it did right? 

oh yeah and what is edc? sorry still new


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## 270winchester (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



Sub_Umbra said:


> Mrs Umbra and I were on the high ground above sea level for Katrina and it's *entire* aftermath. We were very well prepared and in a good house and we hid from the Mayors minions. Our power was out for one day short of *six weeks.* Our phone was out for 7.5 weeks. Natural gas was out much longer.
> 
> We used mostly *dim* lights and with just a little thought you can be ready to provide light _for months_ *without having to stock hundreds of cells.* In the entire six weeks our *total use* of our brighter lights only came to *a few minutes when it was all added together.* *This post* may give you an idea for lights that will put you in good stead in an emergency without spending a lot of money on spare cells. Remember that when the power is out for a while your dim lights will seem brighter as you will have more visual purple to work with and much less ambient light to overcome.
> 
> ...




what about blue filters for LED lights? would they do the job to avoid detection? I have a few blue LED lights but just ordered a blue filter from SF.


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## bfg9000 (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



HiKing808 said:


> man where do you guys live??? no offence, but i can't see being without running power and water, for longer than 2 days b4 major help arrives from either the mainland, or other countries.


Of Oahu's 4 military and 3 public airports, only two have an elevation over 18' (just one has an elevation over 30', and that is at Wheeler AFB). So it isn't impossible for a hurricane (Iniki in 1992 had gusts to 160mph) or tsunami to damage all of them except for a smallish one.

In that case only small planes could land on short runways or on highways, and the bulk of relief aid would arrive at a minimum of three weeks later by ship (weather permitting, and if the ports are ok). By comparison, New Orleans is crisscrossed by Interstate highways, and it still took weeks to make them passable.


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## flame2000 (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Just curious.......do you guys keep a small backup generator and a jerry can of petrol in case there is any disaster?


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## EV_007 (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I agree, a long lasting dim LED would be the best option for a disaster light. Multiple lights using same size batteries is another wise choice.[font=&quot][/font]

Oahu is a popular tourist destination, however, if the brown stuff started flying and law and order deteriorated, you’d literally be stuck on an Island with nowhere to go. When I lived in Hawaii, I remember Tsunami evacuation routes outlined in the first few pages of phonebooks, so it is a real threat there.

Also, Hawaii ‘s main industry is tourism and the majority of the jobs support it. If the crap truly hit the fan ala New Orleans style, it would be open season on the "rich" tourists. The social economic disparity between the haves and the have-nots is ever present on the Islands. Anytime you have that imbalance, a disaster occurring event levels the playing field, which can indeed get a bit hairy.



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## bfg9000 (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



HiKing808 said:


> i mean does anyone know how long those islands victimized by the 04 tsunamis were without power, water, etc,


 Um, I guess you could say the villages that were washed away are still without power and water because everybody in them died after the 100 foot tall waves buried them! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake In the third world, you're on your own.

BTW:


> On April 2, 1868, a local earthquake with a magnitude estimated between 7.25 and 7.75 rocked the southeast coast of the Big Island of Hawaii. It triggered a landslide on the slopes of the Mauna Loa volcano, five miles north of Pahala, killing 31 persons. A tsunami then claimed 46 additional lives. The villages of Punaluu, Ninole, Kawaa, Honuapo, and Keauhou Landing were severely damaged. According to one account, the tsunami "rolled in over the tops of the cocoanut trees, probably 60 feet high .... inland a distance of a quarter of a mile in some places, taking out to sea when it returned, houses, men, women, and almost everything movable."





> The April 1 (1946) Aleutian Island earthquake tsunami that killed 159 people on Hawaii and five in Alaska resulted in the creation of a tsunami warning system (specifically The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center), established in 1949 for Pacific Ocean area countries. The tsunami is locally known in Hawaii as the April Fools Day Tsunami in Hawaii due to people thinking the warnings were an April Fools prank.


There's now 900,000 people on that tiny island of Oahu in the middle of the Pacific.
And EDC is "every day carry."



Lightmania said:


> Also, if there's a lot of trees around you, it is not a bad idea to have a chain saw handy.


 Somehow I can't imagine HiKing808 would need to cut down coconut palms in Waikiki for firewood, since Hawaii is so much more tropical than Florida that nobody has indoor heating, and washing machines are often plumbed outdoors. Maybe for cooking the rich tourists?


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## etc (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

* Bottom line? Get a generator; we had one running non-stop. Nothing as beautiful as the sound of the generator running in those time *


+1

I just had a power outage a few days ago, due to strong winds. Visiting a friend to work on her car. It was cold, rainy, miserable, very windy (which brought down the temp. index), and well, dark. Plus I got flu, which made things really much worse. 

I did use the multitude of lites I had with me to discover what kind of shyte I was in.... she had no generator, no propane devices, all in all, poorly prepared. Just some candles. 

Lites are the first line of defense so you can set up the entire infrastructure if something like this happens. LP stove is the way to go, kerosine heater is great, and a generator is a good idea. But if you get these for 2.5 days per year, it may not be worthwhile to spent on these things.


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## Lightmania (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

lol, I was thinking of debris clearing, making road passable, etc when I said that. But that'll work too if you live somewhere else cold. 

Lightmania


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## paulr (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I guess before I got a generator I'd ask myself what I'd power with it. If my life is so dependent on electrically powered gadgets that I can't get by for a few weeks without power, maybe the problem I should fix is too much dependence on electricity, rather than lack of a generator. Of course that doesn't apply to those needing power for medical equipment or other such exceptional instances. As for me I'd much rather have 50 pounds of nonperishable food and clean water in a disaster, than 50 pounds of batteries and generators.


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## Sub_Umbra (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



270winchester said:


> what about blue filters for LED lights? would they do the job to avoid detection *(by NV gear)*? I have a few blue LED lights but just ordered a blue filter from SF.


Bold phrase added by me for clarity.

I don't think blue does it. NV gear filters out part of the blue/green range so that lights in that part of the spectrum may be used without disrupting it. 

While I don't know the exact wavelength of the filter the Rigel MIL Starlite is the only light I know of that has LEDs tested and approved as compatable with NV gear by the Air Force's Advanced Research Lab in White Sands, NM.


flame2000 said:


> Just curious.......do you guys keep a small backup generator and a jerry can of petrol in case there is any disaster?


In an emergency of short duration where the _Social Order remains intact_ they may be useful but buying and using one may have very serious ramifications for the owner. In a serious emergency backup generators should be viewed as a mixed bag. 

Most people do a very poor job of correctly identifying the wide array of threats that they may face in an emergency -- this is somewhat obvious by the lack of preparedness in the general public. It is very easy to buy some food, water, a generator and fool yourself into thinking you have everything covered. 

During Katrina I know of some people whose generators were _the main cause of their problems and the very reason that they were forced into their very poorly timed evac._ One family thought they were all set and were running their generator in Gretna, across the river, when they had to call 911 to report that there were *ten armed men* in their backyard that they didn't know -- drawn to them by the sound of their generator. The police were in no position to be able to help them. The dispacher told the homeowner to *kill them all* -- and the homeowner wasn't up to it. Those folks were actually in pretty good shape -- except for the looters called in _by their generator._ They had weathered the storm and had enough supplies to hang for a week or so and then try to get out of town in a somewhat civilized manner after things calmed down a bit. But it was too late for them to take a low profile at that point. They ended up fighting their way out of town at the _worst possible time._ This happened many times in many places in the next few weeks.

Some of the problems with generators in an serious emergency:

They require the purchase, handling _and the long term storage_ of fuels which may pose a fire and explosive hazard.
They alert *anyone* within earshot that there is something worth stealing at your location. It screams not only that there are people about -- but also that they have something *worth stealing.* Ironically, in addition to the same things that many others have worth stealing your generator will also be an advertizement to looters _and government officials_ that you also have two other things that are highly stealable in a crisis -- *your generator and your fuel*.
They totally give away your location to: looters, neighbors, police and the military. You should always have the option to only reveal your presence when and to those you choose. If everyone knows exactly where you are you not only face the threat of being murdered by looters or police (Katrina, New Orleans) but also your known location may also make you a _political pawn_ for the use of any politician -- local, state or federal. (Katrina, New Orleans)
Looters are often methodical, slowly moving house by house and block by block for days or weeks at a time. If you or your neighbors are running a generator _you won't even hear the doors being kicked in in the next block._
As bleak as those arguments sound I do believe that there are some situations where I would consider using a generator:

If I lived in a neighborhood with a very cohesive population that were all into preparedness, were well armed and willing to organize a sentry rotation at night.
If it was a neighborhood with some but not all of the above requirements I may consider just running the generator *during the daylight hours only.* 
It is obvious that most who buy generators have never considered most of these things. It is ironic that the worse the situation gets -- the more you need it, the more dangerous it becomes to run a generator. 

I'm sure that many won't believe this (for many reasons) -- I just wrote it because I know that some will give it very serious thought.


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## FlashInThePan (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I tend to agree with the notion that lighting should be among the last of your worries; the real keys are water, food, shelter, and first aid - everything else is surplus. As flashaholics, we tend to overlook the obvious!

That said, 3-5 days is probably sufficient for most normal "emergencies" - blackouts, moderate earthquakes, etc. - where help will usually arrive within a few days. If anything lasts longer than that, you're really getting into the arena of "major disasters," which is a whole different ball game. If you're worried about *that* kind of disaster, better make sure you've got 50-gallon jugs of water and a few dozen CR123s on hand!

- FITP


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## Sub_Umbra (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

The word *"Disaster"* is in the Subject line. 

In light of that usage I think that more serious emergencies would be appropriate for discussion. IMO, run-of-the-mill 3-5 day emergencies are not quite in keeping with the Subject of the thread.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Thanks for your thoughts, Sub_Umbra. I read all your posts on such things very closely and sometimes print them out. Too easy to sit here in my comfy chair with my emergency equipment and supplies and think I'm ok. Good to hear from someone who's actually done it and knows how it really works, and have some idea of how far off I am. Thank you.

:buddies:


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## Lightmania (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

FlashInThePan hit it on right. In my case, we had all of our basic needs covered and thus can afford the luxury of having a generator. 

My experience would be the "most normal emergencies", that is, if one can call that normal. Sub_Umbra, thank you for posting your experience, you raised many good points and there's a lot to learn from your experience. Luckily for us, it wasn't that desperate. 

Its different for everyone; different needs for different situation. But the basic needs stay the same. 

And don't forget to have a mean of staying in touch with the news/weather like a portable tv or radio.

Lightmania


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## Stormstaff (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Very nice info. If at all possible, only try to count on yourself because no matter how much our fine officers of the law/soldiers/workers try after something hits, it all comes down to CYA(cover your a**).

I hope that makes sense to everyone. Sometimes I'm not very good at explaining myself.


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## Sub_Umbra (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



> I tend to agree with the notion that lighting should be among the last of your worries; the real keys are water, food, shelter, and *first aid* - everything else is surplus. As flashaholics, we tend to overlook the obvious!


Emphasis mine.

The obvious may very well get you killed in a disaster. *First Aid* is of very little value in a disaster even though it may _seem_ obvious. First Aid is...well, just that, First Aid. It's what must be done FIRST -- and it presupposes that help will be along shortly. Disasters don't work that way. That's why they call them *disasters.* If the patient requires *more than First Aid* and that's all they can get -- *they will die.* You may apply direct pressure to a bleeder but if there's no 911 or no one to follow up and stitch it closed you'll only slightly prolong the death.

For the record, US Marshals brought in from out of state in my neighborhood were _still processing_ a list of *over 3000* 911 calls made the night Katrina struck *35 days later.* The NOPD was on R&R in Vegas by then. (Really) You may find yourselves *truly* on your own.

At this point, someone usually chimes in about how we're not doctors, and the danger and blah, blah, blah about a whole bunch of things they never thought of before...that make anything beyond First Aid impossible for anyone who is not a dr. Fine, let them think that. Let them watch their own kid or wife die needlessly. That's their business.


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## The-David (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



Sub_Umbra said:


> [*]If I lived in a neighborhood with a very cohesive population that were all into preparedness, were well armed and willing to organize a sentry rotation at night.



Oh man, I wish I had nabbors like that. I dont tell ANEYONE excpt for my imedet famley what and where it is... If someone dous kick the front door and find a untimley end, then they cirntley wont find aneything of use to them.


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## BVH (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Sub, thanks for your tip on the blue/greens. I just picked up a couple of them.


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## Brighteyez (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

HiKing808,

Just thinking back to what occurred in the SF Bay area following the Loma Prieta 7.1 earthquake in 1989 (also known to TV viewers as "What happened? I was watching the World Series!"  ), there were a lot of opportunist that popped up afterwards with various businesses looking to profit from from the "disaster preparedness" hysteria that followed. This ranged from construction upgrades to some general "earthquake preparedness" oriented stores. Most of those businesses are gone now, though some just changed their market focus to different markets (LDS food storage, survivalist wannabees, alternative food source, Y2K, etc.) The ones that quickly disappeared were stores that were selling MREs that were oddly close to a nearby military base ... right around the time that the base became a victim of cutbacks 

Anyways, you may be seeing similar businesses pop up in your area as well.


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## Sharpdogs (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Great thread! I spent too much money on high powered lights. I forgot about the importance of run time and conserving batteries.

Sub, 

Thanks for the advice I just read your other threads. I had no idea about the usefulness of the colored lights. If want PM me your address. I will send you a blue led Super Bright.


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## B'hamFAL (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/

hours of fun.

edit---> well not any more ya gotta sign up now to read the survival/preparedness forums where discussions range to the point of what kinda oil burns best in your lamp.......


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## turbodog (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Sub makes some very good points.

I lived through katrina, although not quit as bad as he did. But close I think.

So, here begins *my* rambling on what I think about all this.

I say there are 3 kinds of disasters.
1. katrina ground zero (houses gone, no drinking water, armed looters)
2. far removed (power outage that lasts few days, minor inconveniences)
3. very close to 'ground zero' (this is where I fit in)

Between me and my family, we live as far as 120 miles from katrina and as close as 90. Thankfully, none of us suffered looters in our immediate area.

Here's the tale of what we *did* go though.

We all lost power sometime that Monday, when the winds and rain reached us. This was expected. We had water stored in the bathtub. It's cheap and easy to fill, and you really want to be able to flush the toilet. Don't count on the water staying on, it didn't.

We also had plenty of food, bought about a week in advance. People who waited till 1-2 days before found empty shelves.

I took down all the patio furniture and outside stuff. We put towels under the exterior doors and windows to catch the rain that will seep in (when driven by 50+ mph winds).

Back to it though... power dies on Monday. And it came back on 2 hours later. I never lost my cable modem, but I did lose phone. I guess it helps that we are connected to the local Nissan plant's power grid and a board member of the power company lives down the road. I counted us very lucky to get power back that quickly. And the more time passed the luckier I felt.

Grandparents didn't know the storm was as severe as it was. They live closer to the coast. It hit them Sun night. They lost power, water, phone, gas, and cable. Their road was covered in 18-24" downed trees for about 7 miles in either direction. They waited for close to a week for rescue, not knowing that a bomb had just been dropped in south mississippi. Various neighbors banded together and were able to "make it out" after about a solid *week* of working. Power was out for ~2.5 weeks. Unknown outage time on remaining utilities.

Mom lost power, cable, and phone. Thankfully she had water. She simply sat at home in 95F humid weather for ~6 days till power was restored. There was _NO_ food available in any form at the local/rural store.

In laws lost water, but kept everything else. They had to bail and come to our place. Imagine that... water happens to be invaluable.

Out laws (bad side of family) lost power for 20 days. They had food. They also had gas for the generator. This was precious since it pumped water from the well (no community water). They lost all fridge contents and 5-6 deep freezers worth of food when gas became too scarce. The 100 bazillion watt trailer-mounted generator would run a neighborhood, but sucked gas down at about $100/day.

So what's my point? Me and mine used (and could have used):
1. fuel conserving generator (3 gal/day)
2. enough gas to run it for 14 days (say 45 gallons)
3. chainsaw, extra chain, sharpener, premix oil, bar oil
4. enough food/water to sustain strenuous work in the heat for 2 weeks
5. water to flush toilet (or way to get it... pond, creek, etc)
6. winch/tractor to drag logs (gotta move them after they're cut)
7. tarps to cover roof/broken window
8. plywood/screws
9. CASH, at least $1500
10. gloves (tree removal, broken glass, etc)
11. extension cords
12. gun (I *DO* live in MS after all)
13. board games/playing cards/etc
14. jumper cables
15. 12v battery charger

I am sure there are things I have forgotten. There are also items which I skipped.

I said all this to lead up to one thing.

Transportation.

If you plan for a 2-3 day disaster and it turns into 2-3 weeks (it did), you'll have to go get food/etc. After a week of staring at the wall, you'll wonder if help is ever coming.

Major roads were impassable even a week after it hit. Trucks could not pass, not even you brother in law's jacked up 4x4.

But 4 wheelers could, and did.

There were an army of atvs on the roads after katrina. Many people used them to save on gas even when roads DID open back up; they get ~60 mpg. People used them to deliver ice to elderly.

I kept thinking about ours. I knew it was the only way to get out of the neighborhood if we had to bail. When I had to drive ~100 miles to rescue some family I *almost* had to drive it to get there.

Also, if possible, park your cars in different locations. I saw several trees that crushed BOTH cars that people owned. Or sometimes, the trees fell across the drive and blocked the cars in. Then the people couldn't get out because the needed a car/truck to pull the tree away.

The devastation reached far and wide. Jackson Mississippi lost power in 97% of the city for 10 days. The utility crews ran out of gas/diesel to fuel their service equipment. ANY fuel tanker that was inbound got a multi-car police escort. This fuel was quickly snapped up by police/public service/utility crews. The closest gas was in Memphis, TN. People were sleeping in front of the pumps in hope that a station would get gas.

So, if there's middle ground between fighting for your life and unaffected we were smack dab in the middle. No food, no water, no power, no gas, no phone, no tv. It was unreal. Nobody had any idea it would reach this far north.

Part of the problem was that Jackson was used as a staging area for the coast. So what little resources that did exist were taken. The police took over a local gas station. They had a 24 hour guard there. Concrete bunkers were erected. Only law enforcement traffic was allowed in. The bunkers are still there to this day.

I keep 30 gallon of gas in my shed right now. If we _ever_ get anything like this again I will buy more jugs and store 50-60 gallons.

But be careful with that chainsaw. The hospitals had a good number of chainsaw injuries that came through.

There's so much that can be talked about. Large scale disasters affect things you never dreamed of.

But I ramble...


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## turbodog (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I will add this much. The 3% of town that DID manage to keep power. Yup, that was me.


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## paulr (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Interesting post Turbodog. I'm not sure what kind of lifestyle would involve keeping 5-6 deep freezers full of food at home in normal times (the electricity costs alone must be nontrivial). I'm used to not keeping more than 1-2 days of food in the fridge, though I have a couple weeks worth of nonperishable stuff in case something happens and for everyday use, plus about 20 gallons of water. One item I'd like to acquire if I hit the lottery is a marine desalinator. A $2000 unit on ebay will turn 20+ gallons of sea water into fresh water per hour on 12 volt power. I live near the ocean so there's infinite sea water available. Anyway I keep being tempted by the technical coolness of those little handheld (well, almost handheld) 1kw Honda generators but I just don't think it would do me that much good in a disaster. The only electrical thing I really use all the time is my computer, and I figure my internet connection would be out and I'd survive shutting the computer down in that situation. All my important smaller stuff like flashlights, ham radio tranceiver, etc. can be powered by AA NiMH cells and charged up from 12 volts now and then as needed.

Anyway, equipped.org and its forums are a more in-depth place to discuss this kind of stuff.


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## turbodog (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Well, it's easy to pay for that many freezers when you don't have heat or a/c.

I am not kidding either.






paulr said:


> Interesting post Turbodog. I'm not sure what kind of lifestyle would involve keeping 5-6 deep freezers full of food at home in normal times (the electricity costs alone must be nontrivial). I'm used to not keeping more than 1-2 days of food in the fridge, though I have a couple weeks worth of nonperishable stuff in case something happens and for everyday use, plus about 20 gallons of water. One item I'd like to acquire if I hit the lottery is a marine desalinator. A $2000 unit on ebay will turn 20+ gallons of sea water into fresh water per hour on 12 volt power. I live near the ocean so there's infinite sea water available. Anyway I keep being tempted by the technical coolness of those little handheld (well, almost handheld) 1kw Honda generators but I just don't think it would do me that much good in a disaster. The only electrical thing I really use all the time is my computer, and I figure my internet connection would be out and I'd survive shutting the computer down in that situation. All my important smaller stuff like flashlights, ham radio tranceiver, etc. can be powered by AA NiMH cells and charged up from 12 volts now and then as needed.
> 
> Anyway, equipped.org and its forums are a more in-depth place to discuss this kind of stuff.


----------



## g36pilot (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Hunting/fishing and large family/friend feasts are pretty common w/my family there. Already stocked and harvested food makes the cost manageable.

After a fishing trip I'll spend the night at my sister's place the night before heading home and freeze our catch for the flight out. I rarely depart New Orleans w/o a new cooler as checked baggage.

It's also not unusual to borrow empty freezer space when you run out. Of course, there's a storage fee. The larger your freezer(s) the greater the chance of getting free food!


----------



## turbodog (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I guess that it was like totally self-supported camping for 2-3 weeks where you had to take care of yourself, work like a dog, drive and search (and wait in line) for supplies, help the neighbors, try to work a little so you didn't lose your job, and keep your sanity (and that of your wife and children).

Ask yourself, how long before you need clean clothes. These are the little "wow!" susprises that an event of this length will precipitate.


----------



## FlashInThePan (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



Sub_Umbra said:


> Emphasis mine.
> 
> The obvious may very well get you killed in a disaster. *First Aid* is of very little value in a disaster even though it may _seem_ obvious. First Aid is...well, just that, First Aid. It's what must be done FIRST -- and it presupposes that help will be along shortly. Disasters don't work that way. That's why they call them *disasters.* If the patient requires *more than First Aid* and that's all they can get -- *they will die.* You may apply direct pressure to a bleeder but if there's no 911 or no one to follow up and stitch it closed you'll only slightly prolong the death.
> 
> ...


 
I think that having the basics in an emergency - splints to help immobilize broken limbs, antiseptic to help reduce the likelihood of infection, and bandages or torniquets to help stop significant bleeding - is critical. After all, if you have a broken leg, there's no need for a flashlight - you're not going anywhere!

Clearly if the injuries are major enough, you'll eventually die without medical care. But I think that your ability to seek out that help - or survive until help arrives two weeks later - may be greatly increased with the presence of a few basic first aid items. In any case, these are just my suggestions; I'm not an expert on disasters, I just play one on TV. =)

- FITP


----------



## wmirag (Nov 3, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

> From TurboDog
> "But I ramble..."

You didn't ramble. That was the most useful thing I've EVER read on the subject.

Thanks.

W.


----------



## woodasptim (Nov 3, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

This thread has caused me to order an Inova X1 in Green, buy 2 Energizer 200hr folding led lights, mod 2 minimags with Nite ize droppins, and stock up on energizer lithium batteries. We already had food and water squirrelled away, but not enough for 6 weeks  Working on fixing that too. Hmmm, wonder how long those Energizer 2 LED lights would run hooked up to a Energizer 1209


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Nov 3, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

turbodog,

Great posts. I must sheepishly admit that I find it creepy that Katrina's *"New Orleans Story"* has dominated the media (at least here) to such an extent that I really haven't heard much about what others went through in other areas. If I were you I might find that frustrating. Actually I think it would bug the heck out of me.

All of those ideas were solid. To comment on a few:

9. CASH, at least $1500

That is so often overlooked in emergency plans. There are at least three good reasons for cash:

1) No matter how much you have in the bank -- you won't be able to get to it. We spent very little of the ~$2000 we kept on hand for an emergency, but the few times we did use it, it really made our lives easier. No one can be totaly prepared for every emergency in every context and likely you need at least a few things you never thought about. In our case, as well as we were prepared there was one thing that we really needed (a second emergency stove -- propane). We actually got the chance to get one and even though it was at a higher price than it normally have been, we bought it. It was the only chance we had. We didn't see another one for a couple months. 

2) If you elect to evac (or are snatched and forced to) you'll need money. When we felt safe enough to leave the house we still took the cash, identity papers and meds with us everywhere in a fanny pack, along with toilet paper, credit card, DEET, long distance card and $20 in quarters. We never left the house without this stuff.

3) Even if you don't use any of the money it will be a boon to your psychological well being. You will feel much more prepared and much more in control of your own destiny -- and you will be.​
13. board games/playing cards/etc
That's another one people need to think more about. I've written about this and encountered some who were unable to grasp that entertainment should be part of their emergency planning.

There are quite a few potential scenarios where the isolation and boredom factor would be much worse than the six weeks Mrs Umbra and I went through following Katrina -- and they could happen anywhere. Terrorism and Avian Flu come to mind. 

Anyone may read a few articles about what the govt will expect of citzens if they are required to *"Shelter In Place"* in response to the Bird Flue or a bio-terror attack. (While I totally agree that *"Shelter In Place"* is the best course of action in these scenarios -- it's still just a euphemism for *QUARANTINE*) SEE _"Diary of Anne Frank"._

Remember that in the modern world with two career families it may be very stressful to suddenly be confined with spouses, kids and others you're not used to spending time with, including inlaws, outlaws and perhaps a few strangers. When people start running out of anti-depressants you may even find yourself babysitting adults.

Even under the best of situations you may find that you spend your waking hours clamly trying to figure out how to improvise something or figure out how to do something a little more easily or efficently. Not necessarily worrying, just endlessly ticking through things that need attention. Even though the tasks may not be life threatening in and of themselves, *you need to be able to just turn your brain off* for an hour or two each day.

We were stocked up on audiobooks and old radio shows on CD in MP3 format for this purpose. We played them (1-2 hrs per night) on a small, personal CD player. We plugged a tiny speaker into the headphone jack and we could both listen at once. 

It was very nice, really. Something I hadn't noticed until then is that listening to audio is posture independant and requires no bright light. It worked out very well for us and I have increased my stock of audiobooks in light of my past experience.​


----------



## etc (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

turbodog is right on the money. 

I am not worried about lights. I have plenty of them and plenty of cells. All of them are geared towards good run time. If I used them every day extensively, there is still a lot of time involved (many weeks)

The problem is the rest of the system. Food, water, heat, shelter. I recently underwent my first blackout in a long time. I was visting a friend. She was terribly unprepared. No alternative ways to make food or even heat up a cup of tea. It was awful. 

If you are unprepared with the rest of the tools and have lights, you will only be able to *see* what kind of mess you are in. 

I was well prepared to the extent that I could but in the final analysis, had very little. 

To make things totally worse, at the time of the blackout, I got some terrible flu and was barely standing on my feet. That made everything that much more difficult. So add medicine to your list of things, and I don't mean Teraflue type of stuff - although that too - but real antibiotics.

Need Kerosine heaters, generators, LP cooking stove, kerosine lamps -- so that when the grid fails, you can transition more or less painlessly without a shock. Then you need headlamps to operate all this equipment and fail-over painlessly.


----------



## Lit Up (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



Sub_Umbra said:


> We were stocked up on audiobooks and old radio shows on CD in MP3 format for this purpose. We played them (1-2 hrs per night) on a small, personal CD player. We plugged a tiny speaker into the headphone jack and we could both listen at once.
> 
> It was very nice, really. Something I hadn't noticed until then is that listening to audio is posture independant and requires no bright light. It worked out very well for us and I have increased my stock of audiobooks in light of my past experience.​



Sub, just one suggestion here. When it's financially possible, run down to Wal-Mart and upgrade this system by picking up one of those solid state MP3 players that take a standard AAA Battery. You'll find that they are much more efficient than a CD player. I get hours out of one battery. Find one that takes an 'memory upgrade' slot so you can use Secure Digital Cards to store your audiobooks on. Some players come with FM stereo too. Most 128-256 SD cards can be had reasonably cheap now with 2GIG cards on the market.


----------



## Lit Up (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



etc said:


> To make things totally worse, at the time of the blackout, I got some terrible flu and was barely standing on my feet. That made everything that much more difficult. So add medicine to your list of things, and I don't mean Teraflue type of stuff - although that too - but real antibiotics.



Maybe add some Garlic, Green and White Tea supplements too.

This is new on the market, but not sure of its effectiveness:
http://www.mdproducts.com/consumers/cold_md/cold_md.shtml


----------



## etc (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Lit Up

Definitely

When things fail, then you find out exactly what you don't have.


----------



## Brangdon (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



paulr said:


> Run everything on AA NiMH cells, have a solar charger and an Energizer 15 minute charger with 12 volt power plug, letting you recharge in a vehicle. I think that's enough lights for most folks.


How effective is recharging in a vehicle in practice? Has anyone here done it during an emergency? Did you just sit in the car for half an hour with the engine running?

I aim for 100+ hours of dim light, where "dim" is enough to read by or cook by if your eyes are dark adapted. Many torches will run for 20 or 40 or so hours on a single set of batteries, so getting to 100 hours isn't hard. I don't like NiMh cells in this role because they self-discharge too quickly for stockpiling and I'm not too confident of being able to recharge them. I have solar panels and car adaptors, I just don't want to rely on them.


----------



## SilverFox (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Hello Brangdon,

If you have the right charger, charging in a vehicle is no problem at all. I do it all the time. You do not leave your vehicle running, however I do have one set up that will only charge while running, but that is a special case. I use a charger that monitors the battery voltage and shuts down when it reaches 11 volts. This allows you to be sure that your vehicle will start.

Tom


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I know of more than a few who used their cars to charge cell phones.


Lit Up said:


> Sub, just one suggestion here. When it's financially possible, run down to Wal-Mart and upgrade this system by picking up one of those solid state MP3 players that take a standard AAA Battery. You'll find that they are much more efficient than a CD player. I get hours out of one battery. Find one that takes an 'memory upgrade' slot so you can use Secure Digital Cards to store your audiobooks on. Some players come with FM stereo too. Most 128-256 SD cards can be had reasonably cheap now with 2GIG cards on the market.


I bought one after Katrina -- for all of those same reasons. In practice, it hasn't worked out as well as our personal CD/MP3 player. I prefer the CD player for emergency use.

For us the battery usage wasn't a big thing -- we were ready for that. Next season we hope to install a small 10 watt solar panel and deep cycle marine battery so we may run our Accumanager 20. I would have done it already but we just moved.

I also considered a flash based MP3 player with a small FM transmitter to listen on something that sounds nice and has great runtime -- like the GE Superadio III. I've done this before with good results but it's more complex than I like and it normally involves the use of up to three different sizes of cells.



turbodog said:


> ...Ask yourself, how long before you need clean clothes. These are the little "wow!" susprises that an event of this length will precipitate.


Many! Ultimately, for any real disaster you will need everything it takes to provide what it takes to survive -- in the world without power, city water, natural gas and garbage pickup that we are used to.

Mrs Umbra and I met in technical theatre and we both subscribe to the *Grouch Bag* approach to life and have extended it into our disaster preparations. In the old Vaudeville days many performers carried a little bag around their neck with a stash of cash in it called a Grouch Bag. It was their 'unemployment insurance'. Most of what we've put up for disasters also falls into our Grouch Bag catagory and it means that we have stocked up on _everything we use on a day to day basis -- food, soaps, money, RX meds, plastic bags in all sizes we use, etc._ Having these things on hand in quantity will not only get us through any slumps in the entertainment industry -- they flesh out our disaster plan. I'm no Mormon but I don't think that they would need any explaination on this.

For us it would have definately been a mistake to have just limited our plan to some arbitrary duration figure like ten days. Our plan payed off big time. We have replaced what we used and expanded our stocks since then. I'm of the opinion that there will be more, not less chaos in the 21st century. Aside from Katrina, we've already had a series of large scale blackouts that clearly show that the power system has serious problems on a systemic scale.

Don't be put off by the cost of preparedness. Just buy a little more than you need. That's how we got ours. It will save you money a number of ways in the long run.

*Here's a thread* that started out just being about *emergency water mindset* that ended up containing primers on planning for *insect control, garbage* and *sanitation* in disasters.

Many people are locked in denial on these topics. I know that my views are extreme but I also know that the more people think about this stuff, the more they tend to prepare and CPFers, as a slice of the population, are way ahead of the general public on this.


----------



## tebore (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



SilverFox said:


> Hello Brangdon,
> 
> If you have the right charger, charging in a vehicle is no problem at all. I do it all the time. You do not leave your vehicle running, however I do have one set up that will only charge while running, but that is a special case. I use a charger that monitors the battery voltage and shuts down when it reaches 11 volts. This allows you to be sure that your vehicle will start.
> 
> Tom


 
11Volts seems to be right at the edge. In cold climates you'll need as much juice as you can get just to get it going. Does your car get hard to start at 11Volts?

Have you thought about getting 2 Batteries and a H.O. 2 Optma (sp?) Yellowtops would last a long time. 

Another suggestion for other people who have room would be to improvise and build a house UPS out of Yacht batteries and solarpanels. With an inverter you'd be able to power essentials.


----------



## turbodog (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Concerning bugs/food waste/stinking garbage...

Pour 1 capful of bleach per person onto food scraps. They will not stink and grow nasty crap.





Sub_Umbra said:


> *Here's a thread* that started out just being about *emergency water mindset* that ended up containing primers on planning for *insect control, garbage* and *sanitation* in disasters.


----------



## turbodog (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

You're assuming the house survives the event and is habitable.




tebore said:


> Another suggestion for other people who have room would be to improvise and build a house UPS out of Yacht batteries and solarpanels. With an inverter you'd be able to power essentials.


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



turbodog said:


> Concerning bugs/food waste/stinking garbage...
> 
> Pour 1 capful of bleach per person onto food scraps...


Ahhhh, bleach!


----------



## g36pilot (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Something else to consider- a low wattage cigarette receptacle plug-in inverter. These units convert 12v to 115v for powering up to laptop sized devices. This may be used with various household current chargers for battery top off.

I believe we purchased a two pack of these for about $30usd as Sam's Club. We now store one in each of our autos. 

A larger 400 watt unit is stored in my truck that alligator clips directly to a auto battery for vehicle-at-rest use. One can also permanently install in the vehicle. In the stock configuration it can be brought indoors with a spare battery I keep topped up mostly for emergency amateur radio use.


----------



## SilverFox (Nov 4, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Those who may want to "practice" for a disaster, I would suggest a wilderness backpacking trip. It lends perspective to what is really needed to get buy. It also gives you a chance to try out your equipment and become familiar with it.

Tom


----------



## Don_Redondo (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I agree with the distinction between inconvenience – anything less than a week without a breakdown in order - and a disaster – with most or all infrastructure down for more than a week. I’ve been through what I would call a couple weeklong inconveniences – Hurricane Gloria in New England and a severe storm in MI. Both times lost power for a week. For Gloria we had enough warning to fill the tub with water and crank up the fridge and cover it with blankets before the power went out - things were still cool at the end of the week. (We also had time to get the heck out of there and go inland during the brunt of the storm – part of being prepared is knowing when to bail.) The primary light source in both events was a couple aptly named hurricane lamps - the type with about a 3/4” wide flat wick and flame height adjustment. (I know there are several reasons not to like this choice – not good for people in earthquake zones, near broken gas mains, … - but under the right circumstances a couple good oil lamps and a gallon of lamp oil will give you very long run time, an adjustable amount of light, and a hundred year shelf life.) With regards to amount of light, I agree with some of the others and found that I didn’t need much at all. Unless you are trying to repair something - or someone – in the middle of the night – you really don’t need very much. That said, it’s precisely because you don’t know what you’ll need that you should have some options. While I like multimode lights for versatility, it’s important for the calculations that you get run time or brightness with these lights - not both. In other words if you suddenly need ten minutes of very bright light you may have just burned up two hours of low on the same light. Because of that, I would suggest having a dedicated low light long runtime source– like the Pal Lights, River Rock or Osram Dragon lanterns etc., a good two stage light like the Fenix L2T, JetBeam, LiteFlux, etc, for convenient occasional bright lights, a headlamp for hands free work, and a pocket light like a Photon, Arc, or Fenix E1 or even better the L0P SE – in case the event catches you away from the other lights. 

With regards to the generators, during the power outage in MI, we had several neighbors with generators that were running – loudly - night and day and I recognized that they are both annoying and attention getting – from the sound and the number of lights on in the generated houses. They were practically screaming – pick me – for would be burglars. Fortunately this was in a rural area and the disruption was not bad enough to bring out the rif-raf - but the lesson stuck with me. This past summer installed a 1.5K watt solar electric system with battery backup for a few reasons. One – I primarily work out of my house and don’t want to be out of work for an extended period if the power went out. Two - last winter we were warned of rolling blackouts due to regional fuel shortages. Three – for some of the things discussed here. Four - all the ones I haven’t thought about. I should have enough capacity to run the electric bits of the kerosene monitor heaters in the winter or the fridge in the summer. I view it as an expensive generator – but one that pays for itself over time (by reducing the electric bill each month) and one that is very quiet – something I had thought about for the reasons discussed. I’ve also thought about the extra light we may be producing in a black out – relative to the neighbors – and really like the idea of the black plastic and green lights.

Along the same lines of drawing unwanted attention from the bad guys or even the supposed “good guys”, any thoughts on the various two way and multi band radios? Being able to monitor what’s going on and possibly reach someone if needed seems like a very good idea but as soon as you push the transmit button are you announcing more than you intended to?

Sub-Umbra, I’ve also got an Accumanager 20 and a flexible 35W panel in case I had to relocate for a while. It goes well with the portable solar oven, solar shower, couple ceramic water filters, … I’ve used the Accumanager directly off the panel and it works great.

Silver Fox – I did a 27 day Outward Bound program years ago. It’s more of a personal challenge experience than a wilderness survival – but still 27 days in the woods with out any creature comforts and a three-day solo with little more than a sleeping bag, piece of plastic, and a gallon of water. The experience gained from the course had a lot to do with my not just getting by after Gloria but actually enjoying it. Attitude during adversity can be as important as the equipment. They still run a variety of courses - highly recommended. 

Great thread and great stories. Thanks to all for sharing – it’s the best way to pick up tips we all hope we never have to use – but if we do ……


----------



## Pax et Lux (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I don't have any first-hand experience to add to this discussion, but I DO live on the West Coast. . . and we are statistically due for another major earthquake, so I'm taking a great deal of interest in this thread. 

There was a peice in _Time_, linked to from equiped.org, that deals with the political side of why we are so poorly prepared for disasters that we know *will *strike. It states: "91% of Americans live in places at a moderate-to-high risk of earthquakes, volcanoes, tornadoes, wildfires, hurricanes, flooding, high-wind damage or terrorism. . ." It's going to happen again, and many people will be acting surprised.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1229102-1,00.html

Although I have previously put together my own personal survival kit - which, err. . . is so heavy I hardly ever carry it with me (doh!) - this thread is an eye-opener, because I have never previously given thought to the breakdown in law that will follow a natural disaster. My community is awash with drugs, and with that come gangs and guns; there is a gun crime reported in every community newspaper I pick up, and I figure it must be the same for everyone in a major urban area in North America. It's depressing to think that morons with guns will be trying to take the emergency supplies from those of us with the intelligence to be prepared.


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



Don_Redondo said:


> ...I’ve also thought about the extra light we may be producing in a black out – relative to the neighbors – and really like the idea of the black plastic and green lights.



Be sure to get the 6 MIL thick black plastic. It's also handy for a bazillion other things in an emergency.

While I believe that green will also be somewhat attenuated by NV gear, the real color to shoot for would be *blue/green.* 

Rigel has their *MIL Starlite* in this color range and while it's not waterproof, it produces _a very wide output range_ of useable light and is *very handy* for discretely padding around the house. There is also a *Group Buy* for CPFers on the Mini that can save you a few bucks.
MattK has the Photon Freedom in NV green at *batteryjunction.com* for $9.95 (!) and for a bit more you may get the Covert Nose, which makes NV detection even harder by masking the beam. The PF is one of the few lights that can be adjusted dim enough IMO. The runtime is much better than I thought it would be and it can be greatly inhanced by using 1xCR2032 instead of the stock 2xCR2016s supplied. Batteryspace has 2016s and 2032s for 35¢ each.
*Pak-Lite* has one version in turquoise which I used a great deal in the aftermath of Katrina. They get 600 hours on one 9V battery -- or you may run them for *free* if you just keep the used smoke alarm batteries that most replace twice a year. It has been reported by some that they get ~125 hours of use from each pulled smoke alarm battery.



Don_Redondo said:


> ...Along the same lines of drawing unwanted attention from the bad guys or even the supposed “good guys”, any thoughts on the various two way and multi band radios? Being able to monitor what’s going on and possibly reach someone if needed seems like a very good idea but as soon as you push the transmit button are you announcing more than you intended to?


Everyone and every situation will make that different. Even though I have a few shortwave radios and was an avid SWL for decades, I never even turned one on in the six weeks following Katrina. Had I been somewhere else I might have. AM was our best shot at information, all though it's not nearly as good a news source as it was when I was a kid. For that reason I'll get a tiny AA powered TV when I put up my solar panel. As much as I hate TV, for some things it's the best source of local news.

As far as 2-way radio, like everything else you'll have the weigh all of the pros and cons for each situation. It's a great option to have. 

In urban settings, cell phones require special consideration (for me at least). We didn't have a cell phone when Katrina hit and while they certainly have their uses I can tell you that when the land line went down it was a great relief to finally be cut off from all of the *emotion wracked, mindless twits,* who called from all over the country and tried to talk us to death. GEEZE! 

There were times when I actually had to tell relatives that the storm is indeed coming -- that I had very important things to do before it gets here -- and that I have to hang up because I won't be killed by the storm because of their stupid, mindless yammering. What static!

That is a *definate negative* that comes with cell phones *in spades.* My next door neighbor had food, water, pets, and an undamaged, unflooded house and his out of state parents coerced him into evacing _during the most chaotic time_ by badgering him on his cell phone. Their loopy, good intentions put him in far more danger than he would have been in if he just chilled for a week and split then. If you've thought about the danger you face and prepared for it try to remembrer that you really shouldn't listen to someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

We also found out that some very important local people we know pulled quite a few strings in trying to set up a rescue of us by the State Troopers -- idiots (not the Troopers). Thankfully these helpless fools can't even take care of themselves and were unsuccessful.

Remember that if you have made an emergency plan for you and yours, you are *way ahead* of whatever may be rattling around inside the heads of the masses. Whether they are relatives or not, _don't let their chatter pull you away from your plan._ The vast majority of them will have no idea what they are talking about. They have not given your situation as much thought as you have. This is a real danger. They can kill you by taking you off your plan.

We now have a cell phone and from what I've learned I can tell you that in an emergency _I will shut it off and remove the battery_ until I want to call out. It will be another option for *US*
-- not just more distracting static from people who don't know what they are talking about.


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*



Pax et Lux said:


> ...There was a peice in Time, linked to from equiped.org, that deals with the political side of why we are so poorly prepared for disasters that we know will strike. It states: "91% of Americans live in places at a moderate-to-high risk of earthquakes, volcanoes, tornadoes, wildfires, hurricanes, flooding, high-wind damage or terrorism. . ." It's going to happen again, and many people will be acting surprised.
> 
> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/a...29102-1,00.html


That was a good article but I think they still skirted the main problem with governments and disasters.

It is the very nature of governments (and other bureaucracies) to want to grow. When any government spends 99% of it's time and efforts trying to convince it's citizenry that they are stupid and that they will be taken care of it tends to drown out what little sensible advice that inadvertantly slips out...

As an example, we all have seen the terrible hardships caused by blackouts lasting a week or more during the hot weather last summer on the east coast. It would be logical to assume that since they were the result of a declining infrastructure they are prone to happen again. People are in deep denial about this. No politician will be re-elected by telling people to prepare for an occasional week without power by stocking up on food, water, RX meds, fuel, etc. Even though _it has already happened_ and will happen again. No politician will be elected by telling people that the elderly, the young and the infirm have special needs and are at a greater risk and need to be prepared if they are to make it through these kind of events. Americans do not want to hear that.

The politician who gets the most votes will be the one who is very careful to not place any responsibility for the well being of the voters _on themselves_ and instead just promises that he will fix the problem -- and that is the message that most want to hear. It won't matter that the economy can't afford bringing the infrastructure back up to snuff. Then they (the citizens) don't have to worry about it. Then it's out of their hands. Then they don't have to blame themselves for letting grandma and the kids die -- it'll be the government's fault. That is easier for them to deal with than reality.

Relying on government instead of ourselves is a recurring theme. The unwashed Katrina masses are *furious* at the government for letting the levy's fail. That way they don't have to accept any personal responsibility *for choosing to live 14 feet below sea level* and electing crooks into their government that maintains the seawalls. That's why they swear that the levys were *blown up* -- so they won't have to share in the blame. I've lived here for 26 years and never lived _or even slept one night_ below sea level. I looked for the house was living in when Katrina struck for over a year before I found it. Now that only 41% of the population is back and all those homes are gone there are even New Orleanians who are starting to warm to the idea that there may _really_ be something to this _living above sea level business_ after all -- but I digress.

The point is that it is not in the government's interest to promote self reliance, and many, many citizens have indeed become as stupid and helpless as the politicians think they are. Look out for them all. The government and herded citizens are other potential threats that you may have to deal with in any emergency.


----------



## Pax et Lux (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

Sub, I agree with everything you just wrote.

I have this theory that governments exist not to direct the country, but to allow us to go where we want to go and then be blamed when (if) it all goes wrong. They aren't leaders, shaping the nation - they are trying to predict what we (and the corporations and special interest groups) want so they can hold on to power. We put them up to become scapegoats. We drive around in SUVs and then later, when the oil runs out, we will act like it was all the fault of presidents and prime ministers - but we all know oil cannot last forever, just as we know natural disasters will strike, but do we want to have to act responsibly?

On an environmental theme: I haven't read the book this peice refers to - The Long Emergency - but it's likely that when oil suddenly runs out, we will all be plunged into an emergency of a slightly different nature; somewhere between anarchy and the Great Depression. Anyway, if you disagree with the politics behind it, there are insights into why we avoid "too much reality." It's here: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/7203633/the_long_emergency/

Sorry to be political, when I should be writing about flashlights, but I think that awareness is the greater part of survival. You would be better off in an emergency with your brains and no flashlights than the other way around.


----------



## turbodog (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: disaster ready*

I read that article.

Ton of false info in there.





Pax et Lux said:


> Sub, I agree with everything you just wrote.
> 
> I have this theory that governments exist not to direct the country, but to allow us to go where we want to go and then be blamed when (if) it all goes wrong. They aren't leaders, shaping the nation - they are trying to predict what we (and the corporations and special interest groups) want so they can hold on to power. We put them up to become scapegoats. We drive around in SUVs and then later, when the oil runs out, we will act like it was all the fault of presidents and prime ministers - but we all know oil cannot last forever, just as we know natural disasters will strike, but do we want to have to act responsibly?
> 
> ...


----------



## Ken_McE (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*



Don_Redondo said:


> Along the same lines of drawing unwanted attention from the bad guys or even the supposed “good guys”, any thoughts on the various two way and multi band radios? Being able to monitor what’s going on and possibly reach someone if needed seems like a very good idea but as soon as you push the transmit button are you announcing more than you intended to? ……


People who are on the same band will know you are around, but not where. It would be possible to pin down your location with direction finding (D.F.) equipment, but Joe Looter couldn't work the equipment if you handed it to him. It would be odd for local authorities to have such equipment (except cell phone providers, they can D.F. cell phone signals), and if they do have it, how many days are they going to spend waiting around for that guy with the walki-talki to come back on and say something??

I would be unsurprised to hear that various branches of the military carry around D.F. gear, but if the army is actively looking for *you*, well they're probably going to find you. Of course, there is an excellent possibility that they will be busy doing real work and won't give a rodent's rump about some civilian holing up in the root cellar with a CB radio and quietly taking care of their own business.


----------



## AndyTiedye (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*



Ken_McE said:


> if the army is actively looking for *you*, well they're probably going to find you.



Just like they found Osama Bin whatsisname.


----------



## Duluth Diesel (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

I read most of this excellent thread, skimmed a little I admit. Another thing that I consider essential for disaster preparedness and survival is an FCC Amateur Radio License and a HAM radio. Have a backup, stand alone power supply to allow you to operate for days. Getting help, getting info, and helping others is much easier with a 2m HAM rig. I was down in Louisiana immediately after Katrina doing relief work. Cell phones either had no signal, or towers were clogged and useless. HAM radio saved our butts more times than I can count. I highly, highly suggest you look into a basic Technician license if you are serious about saving your butt (and you family's). 

Great thread. Great info here. People speaking from experience is one of the best resources we have.


----------



## zipplet (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

Great thread indeed - this has set off a few alarm bells for me. In a disaster we have a reasonable supply of non perishable food (I live with my parents, they tend to stock up a lot on tinned food) but it wouldn't last past a week with the 6 people who live here. We also have a large cold water tank in the attic (many homes in the UK have one, I don't know about homes in the US) which would be *extremely* useful as a source of water in such an event.

One benefit of working for a retailer (grocery store) in such a situation is you can reserve/buy items such as batteries before the customers, because you can grab it before it goes on the shelf and buy it right away (assuming your manager allows). If you have any friends who work in retail they might be able to help you out - this ofcourse assumes you are WARNED about a disaster before it happens.

Lighting wise, I have enough cells and lights to go with them to probably get months worth of light if I am careful and only run the efficient dimmer lights. I also have a boxful of photon II clones which I'd hand out to people who needed a light. Very useful. Generally when the power goes out I first use my flourescent lantern because it's the most comfortable way to light a room (it's quite bright and a nice flood), but after about 8 hours it'll be useless and I'll have to start being conservative with dimmer lights.

I also have a UPS which could probably be wired to a large 12V car battery to run larger items such as our gas heater (which has an electronic only ignition, bah) if it were absolutely necessary. If that were not possible we could simply fire up the gas oven and leave the door open as a source of heat in winter.

In the event of a long term power outage or worse, after making sure we are OK I'd go and check on the few local people I care about and lend any lights/assistance/tools as needed - I'm sure most of us are generous enough to do this  To be honest I'd probably try to stay at a friends or at my girlfriends house, atleast for some of it, it would be chaos to stay with my family...

Having a cellphone is ESSENTIAL in my opinion because a more local problem could cause you to lose power and telephones but you might still be able to reach a distant cellphone mast. Try to get a 12V charger - even if you don't have a car you could rig something up from AA batteries to power the charger if you had to. I also agree that one should have some form of entertainment. At minimum, a radio - but this has been said here already.

Something noone has mentioned yet: if you have a laptop computer, especially if you have 2 batteries for it and a 12V charger, and a cellphone that can be connected to the laptop and dial out to connect to the internet, there is a chance this might be handy as another source of news and communication. Obviously if the disaster is as bad as Katrina this is useless, but for more minor ones it may come in handy. Failing that you could use the laptop to watch the odd DVD to cheer everyone up, while you still can afford to power it.

As far as battery scrounging goes, I'm one of the worst for it. If a device no longer runs with a battery I'll test the battery, and if enough juice remains in it for it to be useable in something such as a lower output flashlight, I'll throw it in my "semi used" battery box. You never know quite when you might find it useful - just remember to go through them sometimes to weed out the oldest ones.

Last but not least, those of you without a real telephone line that only use VOIP, please get a real telephone line. You can almost guarentee your VOIP will be unusable. And those of you with cordless phones (I confess, I'm one of them) make sure you have a simple corded phone plugged in too.

Hm, I hope I didn't write too much.. ^_^


----------



## paulr (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

If there's really a multi-month power outage there won't be any bothersome battery shortage. Either there will be enough batteries coming in from outside (along with whatever food is coming in) or else there will be enough chaos and mayhem (from shortage of food among other things) that batteries will be the last thing on anyone's mind. So preparations (unless you're planning a Sub Umbra-type of dig-in) probably are more worthwhile for shorter periods. 

Conventional wisdom used to be to have enough stuff on hand for a 3-day disruption but post-Katrina now they're saying 7 days. However, I still don't see any need either for 7 continuous days of flashlight power or for any appreciable usage of very bright lights. Just use a light when you need one. If you're in an urban setting, small led lights are plenty bright enough for just about anything. In a more rural setting having a 12 volt spotlight that you can charge up in a vehicle should take care of any distant-lighting needs.

LRI has a nice kit for attaching a velcro dot to a coin cell light and a matching dot to a hat brim so you can use a coin light as a headlamp. But in an improvised situation with no velcro, duct tape or even scotch tape will probably do the job just fine. So there's another point for the Fauxton as a do-it-all preparedness light.

Re communications: I've heard that in many disasters where the cell phone systems are overloaded (but not knocked out), SMS messages tend to get through when you can't place a voice call.


----------



## AndyTiedye (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*



HiKing808 said:


> man where do you guys live??? no offence, but i can't see being without running power and water, for longer than 2 days b4 major help arrives from either the mainland, or other countries. i mean oahu is a major tourist destination



So was New Orleans!


----------



## AndyTiedye (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

I am surprised nobody mentioned charging your batteries with solar power.
Especially if you live in a place like Hawaii, that gets so much sun.


----------



## paulr (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

In an event caused by bad weather (typhoon/hurricane, etc.) solar power won't be available. Better not count on it.


----------



## GreySave (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

EXCELLENT information and thoughts in this thread. Anyone who has been through a disaster or who has had emergency services training will undoubtedlt have their own thoughts. Here are a few of mine.

Every location will have individual needs based upon their location's characteristics (Rural versus urban, small town versus large city, etc...). In most "normal" emergencies, a 3 to 10 day supply of everything that you would need to survive would be acceptable. "Everything" means just that, and really takes some forethought. 

In the case of a more serious event, such as a pandemic caused by avian flu, you should be prepared to survive on your own for three weeks or more 
(http://pandemicflu.gov/plan/individual/index.html). Expect that utilities, including power and water may be disrupted. Expect that communications will be disrupted. In many locations communications may be disrupted by even a small event. Earthquakes in our area are rare, so when a small but significant one rolled through the area with little damage, communications systems were quickly overloaded by folks calling one another with "did you feel it" reports. Cell phones will overload first, although as someone mentioned text messaging "may" get through when voice cannot. Land line systems will fail shortly thereafter. That is why you must have plans. Who will get the children? Where will you meet if you cannot get home? Who will get the pets? Where will you take the pets? Sit down for a few minutes, look at your potential threats (HazMat, nuclear power plant, flooding, earthquake, hurricane, whatever), look at your lifestyle, and make plans that you will stick to. We have two "escape" destinations that we are familiar with and have discussed who will do what and how we will get there. One is about 40 miles away, and the other about 150 miles away, each in a different direction to avoid wind carried threats. Since we will be seperated (I am a local EMA volunteer), we have set locations and times to meet at each escape destination. 

Do you need to be able to defend yourselves? Again, this will vary by location. I will tell you that a local EMA official has told me that in a widespread national event such as a nuclear attack or avian flu, he expects the social order to break down. He also expects that local police will not be able to respond. Thus, you may very well be on your own. It is hard to contemplate things deteriorating to that level, but it is certainly possible. As someone mentioned earlier, having a weapon and being able to use it are two completely different situations. For now, I have chosen to avoid firearms. I fell fairly comfortable with that decision at this time. That may change in the future.

Because everyone's situation is different, there is no right or wrong in how you decide to prepare. I do urge everyone to make whatever preparations you feel are prudent and that you can afford. I am NOT a professional. My credentials are all volunteer based, but do encompass a fair amount of training.

ARES / RACES (Amateur Radio Emergency Communications)
CERT (Community Emergency Response Team)
Emergency Management Agency staff member


----------



## TORCH_BOY (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

It pays to be ready all the time, Batteries charged, lights and supplies within reach


----------



## AndyTiedye (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

No need to go back to :candle:



paulr said:


> In an event caused by bad weather (typhoon/hurricane, etc.) solar power won't be available. Better not count on it.



Not during the storm. You'll still need enough batteries for that.
Solar power, even small amounts of it, would come in handy if the
power were out for an extended period after the storm.

A panel hooked up to a cheapo charge controller produces regulated 12 volts,
which is what most battery chargers want from the wall wart.
Find the right adapters (at Radio Shack) and you can keep your batteries charged indefinitely.

That's how we keep the batteries charged on all the stuff we bring to 
Burning Man (lots of glowy lighty things, hundreds of feet of elwire,
and, of course flashlights, bike lights, lanterns ...)


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*



Ken_McE said:


> ...I would be unsurprised to hear that various branches of the military carry around D.F. gear, but if the army is actively looking for *you*, well they're probably going to find you. Of course, there is an excellent possibility that they will be busy doing real work and won't give a rodent's rump about some civilian holing up in the root cellar with a CB radio and quietly taking care of their own business.


I think that's true. If things get bad enough the Authorities will be overwhelmed with those who _want_ to be found and a *HUGE* part of the populace who have no plan, are not prepared but are in denial and haven't figured out that they should really split. This group is easy to spot as they will be out on the streets 'foraging' for water and MRE's from the National Guard. They won't want to leave but they'll be rounded up (at gunpoint if necessary) and evaced. That'll go on for weeks.

Those who _don't have to forage_ may hide successfully for a long time if they keep their heads. Even just doing what's called a *Hasty Search* for folks who _want_ to be found, something as quick and simple as a knock, a yell and a sniff for decomp may take a lot of government resources if it has to be done at 300,000 different doors.


zipplet said:


> ...Having a cellphone is ESSENTIAL in my opinion because a more local problem could cause you to lose power and telephones but you might still be able to reach a distant cellphone mast...


Just remember that the people who call you will behave differently than they ever have before. You will get calls from nutty relatives _who have never called you before._ They will likely be much more freaked out than you are. If you are involved in something serious you will not have time for that. If you're not careful it will become _their phone_ instead of _your phone._

• All they will know about your situation will be what they've seen on TV. UGH!
• They won't know anything about any special need(s) that you or your loved ones may have.
• They won't know anything about your emergency plan.
• They won't have any idea what provisions you've laid up or how you intend to use them.

A few hours before Katrina hit, as I was blacking out half of my windows, we started getting calls from all over from relatives. You would have thought that they were _trying to kill us_ by wasting all of our remaining prep time before the storm to try to give us the *worst possible advice.* There was not one bit of good advice in the lot. I finally had to just answer and tell them that we were busy as a storm was coming and tell them to call back in three days -- before I hung up. That was on the landline. There's no way I'm going to be distracted by Aunt Gertie from Ft. Wayne under those conditions. She won't be running down my cell phone battery, either.

*Take charge.* Call someone in the family out of state and have them relay your message around to the rest of the clan. Then shut it off and remove the battery -- so you may use it when *you decide* it will serve your needs best. I've posted before about a neighbor who had a really good plan for Katrina and was in great shape after the storm until his hysterical relatives convinced him that he should leave right then, three days after the storm _during the absolute height of the chaos._ I don't want that kind of static from someone who gets all of their info from TV.


paulr said:


> ....Re communications: I've heard that in many disasters where the cell phone systems are overloaded (but not knocked out), SMS messages tend to get through when you can't place a voice call.


That is right on the money. Often text messages got through when voice calls wouldn't. The best part is that with text you don't have to listen to the emotional drivel from people who are freaking out -- 1,000 miles away.


----------



## Lit Up (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*



Sub_Umbra said:


> That is right on the money. Often text messages got through when voice calls wouldn't. The best part is that with text you don't have to listen to the emotional drivel from people who are freaking out -- 1,000 miles away.



But don't count solely on them. At New Years Eve in the Eastern Time Zone, you couldn't get a call or SMS through close to midnight. If It's a large hit area you may run into the same problems.

Another tip: If you're roughing it out and living on canned goods and would like a quick shot of protein, might be a good idea to pick up a tub of Whey protein to have around.


----------



## fixman88 (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

A very good idea for a radio to have is one of the Freeplay wind-up radios that have a spring-driven generator inside. I have 2 of them (the original Freeplay with AM/FM/SW and the smaller AM/FM version). You wind it up every hour while you're using it and it will operate indefinitely. They also have flashlights that work the same way. The C. Crane Company sells them, and there are probably other places that do as well.


----------



## g36pilot (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*



Sub_Umbra said:


> That is right on the money. Often text messages got through when voice calls wouldn't. The best part is that with text you don't have to listen to the emotional drivel from people who are freaking out -- 1,000 miles away.


 
True! SMS forces one to be brief and may be read at the receiver's leisure instead of requiring an immediate response. Text may have a narrower band width than voice allowing it to get through a saturated system when voice cannot.

After cell coverage degraded one could occasionally phone out of the disaster area, but not into it. I suspect a system call priority of some sort. Late in the day provided the best opportunity for those outbound calls (less system traffic).

For close range comm get Family Radio Service FRS radios for your entire group. They're a little more difficult for others to monitor and are rather discrete with the optional single earpiece. Use them when on the move and whenever one leaves the safety of the group for any reason.


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

Alan,

You cover a lot of ground in your post. 

A couple times you allude to the idea that there are many different types of people and they may have plans that are very diverse. I am absolutely fasinated by that aspect of this subject. I agree. I think it's often a mistake to dismiss a given plan just because it is so different that we may think that it looks like it's full of holes. I've met quite a few folks who went through Katrina with plans based on assumptions that I would have dismissed out of hand. It turns out that some of them were very clever indeed and they came at the same problems from a whole 'nother direction than I would have and worked out the details for themselves. That's what makes humans so interesting... 

Often psychological barriors may be the greatest obstacles standing between a person and a good emergency plan.

Good link on the Pandemic. I've talked with many around the country who were blown away by the Katrina coverage. They often comment something to the effect that they're very glad that they don't live in hurricane country -- as though they think that's all they have to worry about. There is a _benign aspect_ to hurricanes that always seems to escape them -- in the 21st century people in hurricane country *always have three days of warning.* Also, the things we lay up for hurricanes will do double duty for many of the same emergencies that may strike their cities *on a moments notice.* Hurricanes are a more tangible threat that may help you be more prepared for other, _more common_ threats.

Aside from earthquakes and these terrible week long blackouts hitting some parts of the country there are things like the bird flu pandemic and threats of bioterrorism -- and other threats out there that may strike nearly anywhere without warning. I tend to lump the threats of a bird flu pandemic with bioterror because it looks like the Federal response to both will be somewhat similar. While I think the Federal *Shelter in Place* strategy is a good one, it certainly will not be pretty, particularly for those who are not prepared for it.

Here's one way to look at a few different types of emergencies: After a hurricane it is a given that your various governments will *inadvertantly kill some people* while they are setting up an ad-hoc system to evacuate tens (or hundreds) of thousands of people and make it run somewhat smoothly. _You don't want to be one of the first that must rely on these new systems._ If you have health problems (as I do) it's even _more important _ that the kinks are out of it before *you* go. We _knew_ that some really bad things were going to happen to some of the first 'in the pipe' and we were not wrong. We talked it over each day and always concluded that our evac would be safer _with each passing day._ It was a good plan for us -- so good that we never left.

Back to the potential bird flu pandemic... I mentioned setting up the ad-hoc Katrina evac system because Sheltering in Place as a result of a bioterror attack or the avian flu would present a far greater challenge than a mere hurricane. It could make Katrina look like a papercut. Government literature points out that Sheltering in Place may require _the Federal government taking over the distribution of both *food and fuel.*_

How much food, water and perhaps fuel you have laid up will determine whether *you* will have to be out there, in the mob, trying to get some food for your kids. (Picture solders kicking MREs out of choppers to mobs in Ethiopia.) Again and even more importantly than in the hurricane example above, the goal should be to have enough of what you need _so that the government may learn how to set up a massive supply system *on other people,* not you and your family._

While I agree that Shelter in Place is a good policy, we really need to think about what it could mean to ourselves and our loved ones. Shelter in Place is a euphimism for *quaranteen* so unlike a hurricane, the events that bring it on will be an impromptu come as you are party _and you won't be able to leave._ You will have...what you have when it happens. Your only resupply may very well be through the government _for essentials._

This is pretty sobering for me to think about. Believe me, you won't want to depend on a regional or national government based food distribution system _one minute sooner than you have to._ Every week of food you've put up will mean that _someone else will take your place testing the new system._


----------



## Lit Up (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

If we're discussing flu, look into Elderberry extract. This is the first time I haven't had a cold or flu in years during the winter when I usually get 3 or 4.
It just doesn't like viruses. There's some studies suggesting it's spanking the avian in the labs too.


----------



## GreySave (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

Thanx Sub:

My goal was to try to get people to think a little differently about their planning and to do what works for them, logistically and financially. There certainly are some scary things out there, both natural and man made. For those who wish to try to stay on top of breaking medical events including the avian flu, check
www.promedmail.org

This site keeps track of breaking news of medical issues. It covers not only items like the avian flu, but also topics such as items that may be causing harm and that eventualy lead to recalls (Remember the contact lens cleaner fungus issue?). If/'when the avian flu mutates into something of concern, you will read about it here first and most likely a day or two before the information hits the media. That's enough advance warning to give you an edge. It's a good tool to use if you are "into" preparedness or just find the knowledge and infirmation on the site of interest.

I never did discuss lighting in my original post. I am going to rely primarily on multiple X1 lights with a decent stockpile of both new and partially depleted (from the pagers I carry) cells and a few Safelights using cells partially depleted from smoke alarms. Also have hurricane lamps and oil to last for an extended period if the cells run out. Then there's the candles......


----------



## heliyardsale (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

Ok, for everyone reading this thread, if your turned on by the thought of Survival, please stop by my other favorite site here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=123

Everything you ever wanted to know about survival, and great people too.

Heli


----------



## dano (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

This thread has drifted enough that it may no longer fit in this forum (General Flashlight).
It is an most informative thread, but may have drifted outside of its initial subject matter.

--Should it get back on track and become re-focused on lights or should it be moved?

--dan


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## Duluth Diesel (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

Moved, I'd say. I like the way it is going. Good info. We have enough threads about lights. This one is about so much more, and a very important topic.


----------



## paulr (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

It starts to be off-topic for cpf in general, though nothing wrong with moving it as it's a subject that comes up now and then. People with ongoing interest in this topic might try equipped.org, which is about emergency preparedness in general, and which has its own forums.


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## Brangdon (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*



etc said:


> If you are unprepared with the rest of the tools and have lights, you will only be able to *see* what kind of mess you are in.


If I can see, I can hope to improvise. Having food etc is not much good if I can't see to use it.


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## Sub_Umbra (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

I'd like to see this thread moved, too.

Thanks for the second link, GreySave.



GreySave said:


> My goal was to try to get people to think a little differently about their planning and to do what works for them, logistically and financially...


It's quite a challenge. I've thought about man's general reluctance to make preparations for emergencies for a long time. I'm coming to the conclusion that most humans don't like to prepare for disasters at all _because we're not 'fully wired' for that kind of behavior._ The following passage from Bruce Schneier's *Crypto-Gram Newsletter -- November 15, 2006* is really interesting in that context:



> 3. We over-react to immediate threats and under-react to long-term threats. "The brain is a beautifully engineered get-out-of-the-way machine that constantly scans the environment for things out of whose way it should right now get. That's what brains did for several hundred million years -- and then, just a few million years ago, the mammalian brain learned a new trick: to predict the timing and location of dangers before they actually happened. Our ability to duck that which is not yet coming is one of the brain's most stunning innovations, and we wouldn't have dental floss or 401(k) plans without it. But this innovation is in the early stages of development. The application that allows us to respond to visible baseballs is ancient and reliable, but the add-on utility that allows us to respond to threats that loom in an unseen future is still in *beta testing.*"


Emphasis mine.

That made so much sense to me.


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## Wolfgang_Ludwig (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

In case of a desaster, there will be lots of cars around. So you can have your batteries charged with a 12V-Charger.


----------



## wmirag (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: disaster ready*

Gee, this started with "how many days do you think one needs to be ready with illumination". The simple answer is that with flourescents and LEDs it is very easy to have weeks of good light available -- for less than a hundred dollars worth of batteries. 

Having food and water for that long is possible if you own a home with sufficient space and you put some money and thought into the task.

But having protection for that long is another matter. Those of us who have firearms and know how to use them could defeat one or two desperate imbeciles if we had to, mostly because they would expect us to be unarmed here in the NorthEast - we'd have the element of surprise. Still, the very thought of watching a bloating corpse decompose in my front yard makes me sick as I write this.

But I get sicker still when I imagine facing an armed mob, or a few armed and trained assailants, or even a large *unarmed* mob. The average or even above average citizen is gonna be toast in that case. Bullets sail right through CDX plywood! And don't forget about an intentionally set fire. Could you really open up on 100 people if, say, four of them were preparing a molotov cocktail for your house?

The only hope in that situation is being hidden or part of a well trained militia, dug into a defensible position, with 24/7 sentries. Short of that, pick your diety and start praying.

I hope and pray it won't come to that. Frankly, I'm not at all prepared for THAT. And if I suggested that my neighbors prepare for it, they'd think I was crazy. Maybe it's time to move to a Red state? We're sitting ducks here.

W.


----------



## broadgage (Sep 12, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



paulr said:


> Interesting post Turbodog. I'm not sure what kind of lifestyle would involve keeping 5-6 deep freezers full of food at home in normal times (the electricity costs alone must be nontrivial). I'm used to not keeping more than 1-2 days of food in the fridge, though I have a couple weeks worth of nonperishable stuff in case something happens and for everyday use, plus about 20 gallons of water. One item I'd like to acquire if I hit the lottery is a marine desalinator. A $2000 unit on ebay will turn 20+ gallons of sea water into fresh water per hour on 12 volt power. I live near the ocean so there's infinite sea water available. Anyway I keep being tempted by the technical coolness of those little handheld (well, almost handheld) 1kw Honda generators but I just don't think it would do me that much good in a disaster. The only electrical thing I really use all the time is my computer, and I figure my internet connection would be out and I'd survive shutting the computer down in that situation. All my important smaller stuff like flashlights, ham radio tranceiver, etc. can be powered by AA NiMH cells and charged up from 12 volts now and then as needed.
> 
> Anyway, equipped.org and its forums are a more in-depth place to discuss this kind of stuff.


 
I can not recomend the use of reverse omosis watermakers as an emergency water source on land.
I believe that the water close inshore is often too polluted for effective use of such as they are easily clogged up or damaged by dirty water.
Many yachts are equiped with reverse osmosis water makers and is generally advised that this is only used well out to sea and not in port or near a coast.
Also such equipment requires at least two gallons of sea water for each gallon of fresh water produced. No problem on a yacht surrounded by sea water, but if you have to carry it ?

(I know this is a very old thread, but the issues disscused are still as relevant today)


----------



## Hooked on Fenix (Sep 14, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

To give you an idea of how long you need to plan ahead for a disaster, let's look at the Witch fire my family survived through.

The night before the fire started in Ramona, CA, my mom's funeral was held as she died from cancer. Spending time with her in her last days and making funeral arrangements, my family's laundry was piled up for a week. Sunday evening, we were evacuated. I took some of my best lights, chargers, and gear, as well as important documents that couldn't be replaced. I couldn't find my Freeplay Sherpa flashlight or my Freeplay Radio in time to leave. We spent the night sleeping in our cars in the Escondido mall parking lot. Next day, we had to drive my grandparents to the airport so they could get home safely. They live in Canada and already had enough with the loss of their daughter. After a lot of searching that day, we found a Motel 6 in Chula Vista with some vacancies. Most of the county was evacuated, and on top of that, the American Red Cross snatched up the good hotels. We spent two nights there. I got to charge a few battery sets, but the outlets were used up often for charging cell phones and a laptop. We left after two days to see if we can go home. No luck. No way home and no hotel rooms left. We end up finding a church in Lemon Grove that was willing to take us in. They fed us, let us keep updated on news with their T.V., and had a few cots to sleep in. We needed more so most of us slept in our cars for 2 more days. On the sixth day of our emergency, we were finally let back home a couple hours after someone broke through the barracade and the people keeping us out realized that everyone had their guns with them and really wanted to go home. We get home to find out there is no water. The water district let the pumps fail (it was a 50+ year old system and they were offered federal funds previously to replace it and turned the money down) and the backup system hadn't worked for months and they felt no urgency to fix it. It took about a week to get the water back on. We had to bathe with bottled water (wet towel/sponge baths), and we couldn't do laundry. That was nearly three weeks without being able to do laundry, and two without a real shower or bath. We smelled pretty bad. We couldn't air out our houses because of all the smoke and ash in the air. Wooden power lines throughout the town had burned down, and much of the town, including some friends of mine, were without power for another two weeks. Many people I knew didn't even have homes to go home to. 

Okay, that ordeal from the start of our disaster from my mom dying to when my friends got their power back on was nearly 5 weeks. I'd say you need to plan to be self sufficient while being mobile for at least a month. Even though I had power when I got home, I had no water and friends didn't have power. I had to give them some flashlights and batteries to get through the two weeks. They wanted to use propane lanterns in the house with the windows closed because of the smoke. I couldn't let them and needed to give them another option. I had dealt with enough death and disaster and didn't want to deal with more deaths from carbon monoxide poisoning. Throughout all of this, my family was better off than most.

Let's take some lessons from my experience. 
Lesson one: Don't make assumptions. Don't assume you can get gas locally during a disaster. The people who needed gas when we were evacuated didn't make it out of town in time. They were trapped in town after waiting in a long line for gas. We made sure to top off our gas tanks as soon as we thought there might be a chance for an evacuation. Don't waste gas just to have some electricity. Gas is more precious than charging a cell phone or batteries. Don't assume you can get a place to sleep. Nothing fills up hotels, motels, and campgrounds faster than a widespread evacuation. The American Red Cross filled up all the good hotels as well. Don't assume you can charge up your batteries long term. When you have to constantly move, there isn't enough time to charge batteries. Charging up your batteries is the last thing on your mind when you're on a freeway that a fire has jumped with flames warming you up on both sides. Don't assume you only need enough power to run your flashlights at night. When there is thick smoke around you, it seems like the sun comes up hours later and goes down hours earlier. The days get shorter. The daylight left is darker and lights are needed all day in an R.V. for preparing meals, eating, and going to the bathroom. Don't assume that solar panels will charge things during a disaster. Smoke from a fire during warm weather blocks out the sun, as does a storm cloud or a hurricane during cold or tropical weather. Don't assume you can get supplies from the stores as you need them. Stock up while you can. I expected stores to have bottled water in the safe parts of San Diego county. They didn't have it. People that needed it bought it up. People that didn't need it bought it to donate to the disaster victims. Water was gone quickly. When we got home and the water was shut off, local stores donated much of their stock of bottled water and other supplies to the disaster victims. What was left was snatched up quickly. I had the money to buy it, but I had to go get it where it was being given away to get any. 

Lesson two: Don't be too picky or snobbish. Beggers can't be choosers. When you have to travel with family in a disaster, you aren't going to always like what there is to eat. You may have a bowl of cereal with water instead of milk, you may get stale donuts from a gas station, or you may get food from a restaurant that you can't stand. Tough, eat it anyway. When I had to buy a radio at Walmart, so we could keep up to date on the news, I was wishing I could get another Freeplay, or at least an Eton. I got stuck with a cheap $10 one that took alkaline batteries. It was the only one without a proprietary battery that took 24 hours to charge (rechargeable radios like these are useless in an emergency). Don't be picky about where to stay. You won't have any other options. If people take you in, be grateful. Don't be too snobbish about buying batteries (chemistry, price). You don't want rechargeables or lithiums in this situation. You want alkaline, and you probably won't get the chance to buy in bulk at Costco, Sam's Club, or the Internet. You may be stuck buying no name brand batteries at a higher price than name brand ones. If you need them, get them. They may be gone tommorow. If you have lights that take lithiums, use them as a last resort and use the alkaline battery lights first. 

Lesson three: Stay in touch. You need communication. You need a radio, T.V., or laptop with internet to get up to date news. This may be harder after the digital transition since there are no more analog signals. You need a cell phone for every driver to keep up to date on directions for your next location. This will be harder in California with the new hands free law. Bluetooth headsets don't work when everyone uses them and we already have a crowdout effect during normal times. If you have friends who got stuck in the disaster area, check in on them out of concern for their safety. Also, they will be the first to know when you're allowed back home.

Lesson four: Don't count on the ordeal being over when you get home (if you even have a home). The odds are that you may not have a home. If you do have a home, it may be damaged by fire or flood. If not, you may not have power, water, phone, cable, open gas stations, open stores or open restaurants. Bring home plenty of water, food, t.p., trash bags, batteries and lights, stoves and fuel (and a way to light them), a charged cell phone, cash, a full tank of gas, and a full gas can for a generator.


----------



## scout24 (Sep 14, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

I know it has already been said, but it is good to read the experiences of those who unfortunately had to go through situations that are being discussed. I consider myself and my family relatively well prepared for what we experience here in the Northeast, but a different perspective based on other people's experiences is certainly food for thought. Thanks!


----------



## OceanView (Sep 14, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



Hooked on Fenix said:


> To give you an idea of how long you need to plan ahead for a disaster, let's look at the Witch fire my family survived through.


Thanks for sharing all that, HOF. As a fellow Southern Cal resident, you brought up some angles of getting through a wildfire that I hadn't really thought of before. 

It was particularly educational to hear about the lack of certain things in stores, even quite far away. In my mind, I always think that wildfires aren't as bad as, say, a hurricane because civilization is only a few miles away from the danger zone, but your experience shows me that that is not always the case, particularly with a large wildfire that displaces a lot of people.


----------



## broadgage (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Large scale evacuations, as refered to above, are almost unknown here in the UK, but could happen.
Certainly showed the importance of stocks of alkaline batteries due to the problems of charging rechargeable cells.

I have allways kept large stocks of alkaline cells, this recently proved to be prudent when we had a FOUR DAY blackout, which is exceedingly rare in urban areas of the UK.

The power was only off quite briefly where I live, and I have a large battery bank charged by PV.

However friends in the affected area had no power for several days, and were totally unprepared.
They were very gratfull for my help.

In 4 days, two households and a few friends ran through over 100 D cells, and about 200 AA cells.
I loaned numerous cheap rubber 2D flashlights, minimag clones, and 4D flourescent lanterns.
I also sold, at cost price a number of home made very basic battery lights, so cheap they are effectively disposable.
(2 D battery holder, a few inches of wire and a 2.5 volt 0.5amp flashlight bulb soldered to the battery holder)
Cost with batteries about £1.50, without batteries about £0.40.
Cheaper than a glowstick, can be turned off, and gives more light, for longer.


----------



## angelofwar (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Lithiums are definitely the way to go...shelf life and reliability. I keep about 1 months worth of light power available...that includes 18 cells for my M6 w/ MN15 for serious tasks/force multiplier...and if not needed, those can be used to supplement my "disaster lights"...E2L/U2/E1L/L1. These are some of the best (SF) canidates, IMHO. I keep a water purifying kit (treats 49 gallons), propane stove's, and a propane catylic heater (same fuel as the stove, and is safe to use indoors.) Oh, and 2 portable motion sensors that run off AAA's for "additional" security.


----------



## fixitman (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

I do believe in sticking with AA's for emergencies, but recomend against totally relying on alkalines. Alkalines dont store well for long periods. Energizer lithiums typically have a 15 year or more shelf life, last alot longer, and are far more temperature tolerant.
sure, they are more expensive, so I only keep about 30 in stock. But I can rely on them. I keep them in my car, my bug out bag, and my extended bug out kit.
I do keep a 48 pack of alkalines around also, for give aways mostly, since I now have a good supply of eneloops and lithiums, and a solar charger.

Broadgage,
100 D cells and 200 AA's??? WOW, thats alot of batteries in 4 days. Time for your friends and family to invest in some LED lights! I could light every room in my house for a month with that much power. But then, I have like 10 small LED lanterns, and 2 big ones. And of course, theres the flashlights


----------



## DaveG (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Good info guys thanks.


----------



## Roberts30 (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Its always good to be prepared, I really like to stock lithiums :thumbsup:


----------



## Kestrel (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Good thread, I missed it the first time around. Thanks for the info on your experience, Sub Umbra,
K


----------



## OceanView (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



fixitman said:


> 100 D cells and 200 AA's???


I'm with fixitman...wow! What were they doing, running their TV? That's a _significant_ expense, just in batteries. And only for 4 days.


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

We have a pretty good stash of lithiums and alkys for emergencies but in the 21st century it is very easy to argue that secondary cells may be very useful in *many* emergency plans -- especially with the proliferation of LSD cells.

Serious perusal of the website of the *American Society of Civil Engineers* will bring forward some emerging trends that are both interesting and distressing. A thoughtful look at their *Infrastructure Report Card* pages will show a high probability of frequent short and medium term failures of our power grids and other elements of our infrastructure. This trend will likely continue to deepen as our economy prohibits the overhauls necessary as we complete the total *deindustrialization* of our society. 

My point is that this means that the prudent may actually *count on* certain types of failures of our infrastructure for the foreseeable future and likewise may save money by riding through most of them without ever dipping into their more pricy *Primary Stash* -- or at least they may not have to tap into it as early in the event.

IIRC in the aftermath of Katrina we went 2.5 weeks into the six week blackout on Secondaries -- which saved us money and kept more of our Primary Stash intact for whatever may have happened next.

Effectively folding Secondary cells into an emergency plan will take a bit of effort and thought -- but it isn't Rocket Surgery -- and even without any kind of solar charger it may save money when we must cope with the more frequent outages brought about by today's (and tomorrow's increasingly) *brittle infrastructure.*


----------



## broadgage (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



OceanView said:


> I'm with fixitman...wow! What were they doing, running their TV? That's a _significant_ expense, just in batteries. And only for 4 days.


 
Most of the D cells were used in 4D flourescent lanterns, run time about 10/12 hours per set of batteries.
Four lanterns in regular use, and two more used at times.
Couple of 6D maglights as well, and a battery fan that also uses 6D cells.

10 of my throwaway 2D lights were used in the local pub, in areas where candles would not be safe.

And yes I believe that they did power a TV ! only a pocket size one, but that uses 10 AA cells at a time.


----------



## Kestrel (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



broadgage said:


> 10 of my throwaway 2D lights were used in the local pub, in areas where candles would not be safe.


I am ALL FOR using my lights in a local pub! :thumbsup:


----------



## Linger (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



Sub_Umbra said:


> My point is that this means that the prudent may actually *count on* certain types of failures of our infrastructure for the foreseeable future and likewise may save money by riding through most of them without ever dipping into their more pricy *Primary Stash* -- or at least they may not have to tap into it as early in the event.
> 
> IIRC in the aftermath of Katrina we went 2.5 weeks into the six week blackout on Secondaries -- which saved us money and kept more of our Primary Stash intact for whatever may have happened next.



Sub_Umbra - Very cogent piece of information there Sub_Umbra. I've got 12v (car) chargers to extend my secondary suppply, but that creates another dependency. Please PM any recommendations for solar / portable charging. Experience is valuable when shared...


----------



## Linger (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



broadgage said:


> Most of the D cells were used in 4D flourescent lanterns, run time about 10/12 hours per set of batteries.



As much as possible, consider newer power leds (cree xpe, seoul ssc P4) with multi-mode drivers. Those 2 D cell lights could put out ~100h a piece on low and still click up to 100 torch lumens when ever more light is needed.
I realise we here on the forum don't know enough details about the situations you provided for; but at the same time I can say that that rate of consumption is totally unsustainable.

a series of 5mm led's will give more lumens than a 2.5v PR base incan and many times longer. A whack of older xpe q3's will go for a few quid, and each pair of D cells will direct drive them for a few hours. Pop in a multi-mode PWM driver and the set up that used to give you 2 hours will give you light for a week...


----------



## Stress_Test (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Great thread here along with the water thread and others. It's really got me thinking about my own preparation, or lack thereof.

Starting a food/water stockpile is something I need to do; too often I don't have much food at home, and if any sudden disaster happened...

I did score some water today at Lowes, of all places. I went there to get some more fluorescent lights and the first thing I saw when I walked in was a big pile of those bulk water bottle packages. It was about 4 gallons worth for under four bucks, so I grabbed a pack while thinking about this thread  ("best by" date was July 2011, just fyi)


Gee, this is like an entire new addiction to spend money on, but likely to be even more useful than flashlights alone if you ever REALLY need the stuff.


Anyway, I've been guilty of the "can't happen here" syndrome because I'm not in a flood area (though my aunt got flooded only a few miles away), or other "disaster" zone, aside from tornadoes! But the flu hoopla/panic, along with pictures of the mass flooding in Georgia right now, are making me reconsider...


----------



## Stress_Test (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

PS: What about waterproof packing, as in, if you had to strap on a backpack and go on foot through torrential rain, how would you keep stuff dry?

I was thinking about how roads become impassable with flooding, and a hike out to higher ground may be the only way of passage.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm no survivalist by a long shot!


----------



## Burgess (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Great thread here, with lots of helpful information.

:twothumbs



By the way . . . .


Just 10 years ago, the " whole world " was cautiously awaiting
the potential upcoming Disaster known as Y2K. :candle:


Having a stockpile of essentials is *always* a good idea,
no matter what difficulties may arise.


Even today, i'm always *amazed* at people who don't have
a Single Flashlight in their home, or automobile. :shakehead


Did they ever notice that it gets *Dark* at night ? ? ?

:shrug:
_


----------



## angelofwar (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



Stress_Test said:


> PS: What about waterproof packing, as in, if you had to strap on a backpack and go on foot through torrential rain, how would you keep stuff dry?
> 
> I was thinking about how roads become impassable with flooding, and a hike out to higher ground may be the only way of passage.
> 
> Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm no survivalist by a long shot!


 
Great point...Your "critical gear" should be waterproof to begin with...(which is why I buy SF's...), also, NATO waterproof matches, small pelican cases for cell phones and the like. If murphy has anything to do with it, you'll have to bug out during a torrential downpour...Most of my stuff is waterproof where needed...anything else that needs to be waterproofed will go in a ALOK-SAK (I think that's what they're called?) or a pelican case. Hardigg and Otterbox also make reliable (trusted) water proof cases. Cases tend to weigh mopre than water proof bags though, that being there only downfall.


----------



## angelofwar (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



Stress_Test said:


> Great thread here along with the water thread and others. It's really got me thinking about my own preparation, or lack thereof.
> 
> Starting a food/water stockpile is something I need to do; too often I don't have much food at home, and if any sudden disaster happened...
> 
> ...


 
Keep in mind to rotate (flip upside down, etc.) any water stores to extend the "drinkability life" life of it. Also good to have a small container of bleach (1 drop per gallon...don't take my word for it, research it some more). This is what most cities use to augment cleaning the water (Chlorine). Rags and clean stones/sand are also good for making the water more visually appealing.


----------



## turbodog (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

I've got some of these. They are pretty tough and very waterproof.

http://cascadedesigns.com/sealline/packs-and-duffles/widemouth-duffle/product

http://cascadedesigns.com/sealline/packs-and-duffles/seal-pak/product

http://www.rei.com/product/784148

Something you can wear, as opposed to carry, is preferred.


----------



## Kestrel (Sep 22, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



angelofwar said:


> If murphy has anything to do with it, you'll have to bug out during a torrential downpour...



My thoughts as well. I think that one of the primary roles of my bug-out-bag (kept in the car) is to assist me in hiking home from the furthest I get from my house by car during the week. So in my case, 45 miles (& multiple days) of hiking:

on back roads, avoiding the Interstate if necessary
in inclement / severe weather
during a major disaster (such as the aftermath of an earthquake)
with the potential of associated urban unrest if/when the 'sheeple' begin to realize they are in a world of sh1t.


----------



## broadgage (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



Linger said:


> As much as possible, consider newer power leds (cree xpe, seoul ssc P4) with multi-mode drivers. Those 2 D cell lights could put out ~100h a piece on low and still click up to 100 torch lumens when ever more light is needed.
> I realise we here on the forum don't know enough details about the situations you provided for; but at the same time I can say that that rate of consumption is totally unsustainable.
> 
> a series of 5mm led's will give more lumens than a 2.5v PR base incan and many times longer. A whack of older xpe q3's will go for a few quid, and each pair of D cells will direct drive them for a few hours. Pop in a multi-mode PWM driver and the set up that used to give you 2 hours will give you light for a week...


 
Agreed, LEDs would be better than standard incandescent PR flashlight bulbs.
I have a number of good LED flashlights, mainly D cell maglights with Teralux drop ins.
I would think twice about loaning these however on account of the cost. If the person borowing them lost one, I think they would regard £50 ($80) for replacement as a bit of a rip off, but would accept £3 for a cheapo rubber 2D flashlight.

LED lanterns are less of an improvement over flourescent lanterns, and again I would chance lending a well used flourescent lantern that cost £10, but not an LED one that cost £25 and also gives less light.

P.S. another power cut last night and still off, two flourescent lanterns and several cheap 2D flashlights loaned to local taxi office.
I have limited faith that these items will be returned in good condition, but will chance it for cheap and already well used items.
(hopefully they will give me priority for a taxi at busy times)

Urban areas of the UK used to have a very reliable electricity supply, which seems to have declined in reliability recently.


----------



## Sub_Umbra (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



Stress_Test said:


> ...I did score some water today at Lowes, of all places. I went there to get some more fluorescent lights and the first thing I saw when I walked in was a big pile of those bulk water bottle packages. It was about 4 gallons worth for under four bucks, so I grabbed a pack while thinking about this thread  ("best by" date was July 2011, just fyi)...



It's hard to go wrong anytime you can increase your water storage.

Unless packaged explicitly for longer storage most bottled water is put up in *biodegradable* containers. Since water is nearly the perfect solvent it begins to attack these "soft" containers right away. Depending on your storage temperature the water will smell *just like the bottle* in under two years.

Two litre pop bottles are much better longer term containers and the price is right. Soft drink bottles must contain their contents even though they are *under pressure* and in spite of the fact that sodas are *higher acid* than plain water. The are much more stable than the bottles water is sold in unless you pay a hefty premium for a more *storable* product.

Two litre bottles (and caps) may be disinfected effectively by *total submersion* for just a few minutes in a mix of chlorine bleach and water that is just stiff enough to feel slippery on your fingers. Rinse, invert and let them air dry for two days. 

At eight bottles per layer they stack high and with a small foot print if you use the light weight plastic thingies they use between layers to stack and transport them. They are also very manageable for most to move or load into a vehicle when handled one layer at a time.

If you fill them with tap water on a day when your city is putting out good product it should store well in those bottles for two years right from the faucet *with no chemicals added*. Tap water is purified to a higher standard than bottled water. The standards limit the fecal contamination of bottled water and totally exclude it from tap water. For that reason 40% of all bottled water is just tap water.

There you have it, emergency water that outperforms bottled water -- on the cheap!

I would also recommend a ceramic/silver filter system to run all water *no matter what the source* before consumption during emergencies and for use on a daily basis as well. Katadyn has a *huge* selection of proven products that will deliver high quality water under very trying circumstances. Berkey has a trusted line also. They may seem pricey but not on a gallon for gallon basis when compared to the price of much lower quality bottled water -- even with just the two of us ours pays for itself *each year* and we've been using it for a decade.


----------



## angelofwar (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Great info, Sub. A great method I read for storing small amounts of bleach (in small areas like survial tins, etc.) is to cut about 1/4" sections of drinking starws, cap one end off with "kitchen grade"/food safe "rubber caulk", fill it with bleach, and then seal the other end off in the same manner. Then you can open them by "melting" the straw with your M6. :deviltrying desperately to keep the thread involving lights...)


----------



## Cataract (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Very interesting positions on this thread. I keep my camping gear ready at all times and everything in it is either water proof (lights, matches...) or at least double-packed against humidity (clothes). Maybe I should stock on dehydrated food and a good portable water purifier, which is already on the list for next year...


----------



## Linger (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

*Dry-bags*

I'm suprised they haven't been mentioned. They're like stuff sacks that fold over three times at the top and have a clip to close. On my canoe trips every-thing is in dry-bags (or innately waterproof, sometimes both). 
-Take any piece of survival gear and ask yourself: WTSHTF, would this item work better if it were dry? If yes, put it in a dry-bag.
(inside joke, _everything_ is better dry.
Even waterbottles, where the lip or that drop of water on the outside can be contaminated and then you get sick even drinking clean water)


----------



## Linger (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



Sub_Umbra said:


> Katadyn has a *huge* selection of proven products that will deliver high quality water under very trying circumstances.


+1 When buying water purifying it is the cost to run the system (the cost of replacement ceramic filters) that is your base price.
A system that connects to a storage container (nalgene, for instance) is HUGE time-saver...
Always clean after use - it doesn't matter if it was just filtering 2 liters, once you wet it you must clean it.



broadgage said:


> mainly D cell maglights with Teralux drop ins.


Broadgage, teralux may have brought you to CPF. Now that you're here, you can do better.
 You, literally. DIY led lights are dead simple. IF you can do this:



broadgage said:


> I also sold, at cost price a number of home made very basic battery lights, so cheap they are effectively disposable.
> (2 D battery holder, a few inches of wire and a 2.5 volt 0.5amp flashlight bulb soldered to the battery holder



Then you can subsitute a scc p4's, or cree xpe q4's for little more than the price of a PR bulb. Solder leads to emiter, thermal epoxy/ thermal paste the emitter to a big nut, a washer, a 1/2inch copper pipe cap, anything metalic and heat conductive as a basic heatsink. This little direct drive led will be many times brighter and last many times longer.
When you add one of the $3 driver boards I told you about, your diy battery will become a multi-mode area light. You can give out one / household and they'll have emergency lighting for a week (or atleast several times longer than the incans lasted)


----------



## ishmael (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html This is a good site for disaster prep thinking.


----------



## turbodog (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*



Linger said:


> *Dry-bags*
> 
> I'm suprised they haven't been mentioned. They're like stuff sacks that fold over three times at the top and have a clip to close. On my canoe trips every-thing is in dry-bags (or innately waterproof, sometimes both).
> -Take any piece of survival gear and ask yourself: WTSHTF, would this item work better if it were dry? If yes, put it in a dry-bag.
> ...



Then you didn't read the thread. I posted 3 links to them about 10 posts back.


----------



## Stress_Test (Sep 23, 2009)

*Re: disaster ready*

Heh, Linger mentioned a canoe trip; my brother's canoe trip got me thinking about waterproofing in the first place. 

It was in the winter time, and he and some friends were going to do the one-way type canoe trip down a river, starting in the middle of nowhere and going back towards civilization.

I think they had all (or most) of their packs in one canoe. Everything was packed up and they figured it'd be sealed well enough so long as the canoe didn't actually tip over and dunk the stuff in the water. Well, you guessed it, very early on the _*first day*_ the canoe with the cargo tips and everything goes into the river. They drag it all out, but everything's soaked; clothes, sleeping bags, etc. The nights were spent in wet sleeping bags trying not to freeze to death! Sounded like a bad time to me!


Edit: 

Dang, just realized that I never did ask what they were carrying for lighting. That trip was a while back so maybe it was pre-CPF for me.


----------



## turbodog (Jul 10, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

I know this is an old thread, but the stuff here is so spot-on I decided to add it.

1. Turn off ALL breakers. When power comes back on, it often surges and fries things. Also, house fires are started by stoves/ovens that came back on.

2. Tapcon screws (screw into brick/concrete) are single-use only.

3. Tarps, including roofing nails to hold them on and sometimes 2"x2" strips of wood also.

4. Lock your outside panel when backfeeding. Provides protection against someone throwing the breaker and killing an electrical worker.


----------



## Timothybil (Jul 10, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

I'm surprised no one brought up Hurricane Sandy, where many places went without power for a week or more, and some for more than a month.


----------



## Cinder (Jul 10, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

Anyone from Japan affected by the storm? Power outage = flashlight time! Hope everyone there stays safe though. Some some photos of the destruction that has been caused.


----------



## hombreluhrs (Jul 10, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*



Timothybil said:


> I'm surprised no one brought up Hurricane Sandy, where many places went without power for a week or more, and some for more than a month.



Sandy is one of the reasons I got into flashlights.


----------



## DaveG (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

Good timing on bring this thread back to life,with the crazy weather and hurricane season here.


----------



## TMedina (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

Yup, this year promises to be an adventure.

Be sure to check out the lanterns and headlamps sections as well.


----------



## reppans (Jul 14, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*



Timothybil said:


> I'm surprised no one brought up Hurricane Sandy, where many places went without power for a week or more, and some for more than a month.



Hehe... only one post ahead of yours in the past 5yrs - Sandy hadn't happened yet


----------



## RobertMM (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

My place is currently being hit by a typhoon, some areas have taken a beating. No power failures yet, surprisingly, I am taking the opportunity to recharge all cells I have missed yesterday. It will be a long 3 or so days ahead of us.


----------



## StarHalo (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

The Hurricane Sandy thread is over here; a fine example of how CPF handles an emergency weather situation.


----------



## RobertMM (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

Well, lights out now in many parts of the PHL. Howling winds and heavy rain everywhere. Glad I bought extra groceries and added an inflatable solar lantern to my collection for guilt free lumens. I have an ammo can full of cr123 and AA primaries, but I guess I won't have to dip into it.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*

So many potential disasters to prepare for, so little time. What disaster strikes will determine how long we need to be prepared for.

Let's start with the fact that our emergency resources are being used up to take care of those crossing the southern border right now. If a widespread disaster strikes, don't depend on government assistance as they are being stretched to the limits right now. From the border crisis, we also have infectous diseases spreading across the U.S. without any proper controls in place to prevent the spread. These people are getting fasttracked through airports and bus stations and spread across the nation without the local authorities clued in at all. Pakistani to English translation books and prayer rugs have been spotted along the border and major gangs south of the border are getting $50,000 a person to get Middle Easterners and Chinese people across the border. A near future terrorist attack is a definite possibility. Increased gang activity is now a certainty.

In the west, we are dealing with a water crisis from a drought. California is now fining people for using water and encouraging people to narc on each other over their water usage. Lake Mead (which supplies much of our water and electricity) is running low as well as it's source from Lake Powell. If we don't get more water soon, we could lose reliability in the electric grid as well as our sources of water. Try to prepare for living in a state with 50 million people with no electricity or water and most states west of Colorado not doing any better. The mass migration of 50 million people over water would in itself be a disaster.

Recently, it was discovered that a Russian computer virus was in over 1,000 systems of energy companies around the world and had been for 18 months. About 1/4 of those companies were in the U.S. The virus was similar to the Stuxnet virus and could monitor, control, and destroy systems and equipment. If the energy sector of the economy crashed, how long would you need to be prepared for such a disaster?

Then we have the threats of natural disasters. Reports of a road melting in Yellowstone from magma rising to the surface could possibly be signalling activity of a supervolcano. 2 150+ mph back to back hurricanes off the coast of Mexico over a month ago could be a sign of a very active storm season approaching. Increasing earthquake activity around the Ring of Fire such as the 7.9 in Alaska makes you wonder if the West Coast of California is next. Wildfires are popping up across the west due to the drought as well.

I don't know what disaster I'll be preparing for but there are enough of them damaging enough that I would want to be prepared with at least a year of supplies of water, food, fuel, first aid, and power. I think we are past the time when we can rely on 72 hours of supplies being enough before help arrives. At this point, I don't want to my survival to depend on help arriving because if any of these events take place, help might not arrive. Then what?


----------



## Stockhouse13 (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*



hombreluhrs said:


> Sandy is one of the reasons I got into flashlights.



Me, too.


----------



## StarHalo (Jul 15, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*



RobertMM said:


> Well, lights out now in many parts of the PHL. Howling winds and heavy rain everywhere.



Hang in there, hope everyone stays safe indoors. Good to see you still have internet..


----------



## RobertMM (Jul 16, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*



StarHalo said:


> Hang in there, hope everyone stays safe indoors. Good to see you still have internet..



Thank you Sir. 
Toppled trees everywhere, main power transmission lines heavily damaged so it would take quite a while to restore electricity. No casualties near my area but some areas totally ravaged, some houses roofless or toppled completely. 
Internet is spotty, I have a solar powerbank though so I can use my smartphone at will. 
I guess I have to bring a few loaners to work later when I get to graveyard shift. Hospital has monggoso generators though so I can recharge the cells I used(two 3400 18650s down to 4.08V each LOL). That Solarforce M9 is really frugal on battery power.


----------



## DaveG (Jul 16, 2014)

*Re: disaster ready*



Hooked on Fenix said:


> So many potential disasters to prepare for, so little time. What disaster strikes will determine how long we need to be prepared for.
> 
> Let's start with the fact that our emergency resources are being used up to take care of those crossing the southern border right now. If a widespread disaster strikes, don't depend on government assistance as they are being stretched to the limits right now. From the border crisis, we also have infectous diseases spreading across the U.S. without any proper controls in place to prevent the spread. These people are getting fasttracked through airports and bus stations and spread across the nation without the local authorities clued in at all. Pakistani to English translation books and prayer rugs have been spotted along the border and major gangs south of the border are getting $50,000 a person to get Middle Easterners and Chinese people across the border. A near future terrorist attack is a definite possibility. Increased gang activity is now a certainty.
> 
> ...


 Amen,brother tough times ahead for sure.


----------



## scout24 (Feb 20, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Bump.


----------



## Burgess (Feb 20, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Very interesting thread here !


----------



## turbodog (Feb 20, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Not to toot my own horn, but post #34 is pretty good.


----------



## Poppy (Feb 20, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



turbodog said:


> Not to toot my own horn, but post #34 is pretty good.


I'll toot it for you, I think it is well written.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...saster-Ready&p=1669070&viewfull=1#post1669070


----------



## idleprocess (Feb 21, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Observations about the Snowpocalypse 2021 in the DFW area:

The DFW area remains unprepared for ice and snow - TXDOT might put down brine solution to accelerate ice removal and sand the highways but any substantive plowing of snow or removing ice are out; localities are generally less-prepared than TXDOT
The average structure in DFW is not really designed for prolonged sub-freezing temperatures nor any stretch of temperatures below the 20s F
The Texas power grid and natural gas distribution system is vulnerable to the same issues as structures in DFW - a reality that seems likely to continue
Local water systems are similarly vulnerable to prolonged cold snaps
Most businesses/retailers have no provision whatsoever for loss of commercial power
DFW area residents are neither materially nor mentally prepared to handle prolonged cold weather nor utility service disruptions

My personal experience:
Better than most in my city. Save for one 15-minute power outage _(where the UPS on my comms decided to beep ineffectually but not provide power)_ I lost no utilities. Given that the local power distribution company was unable to implement rolling blackouts due to _a limited ability to switch loads without impacting grid stability_ I do wonder if any similar circumstance (statewide power shortages) means I can count on power staying up again - thus I'm uncertain if a portable backup generator for critical 120V circuits is necessary or if I should just improve my UPS game.

Otherwise, I suffered no burst pipes, was sitting on enough dry goods and water to sit tight for weeks, and was not forced to venture out onto icy roads at the risk of being caught up in a flashmob performance of _*Texans on Ice™*_. I did learn that the insulating caps so popular in the region for hose bibs are not adequate during a prolonged / colder-than-normal freezing spell, however I was able to defrost them using a hair dryer without further drama and subsequently ran them briefly daily. The furnace ran uninterrupted, however the gradient between downstairs and upstairs was pronounced, suggesting my insulation problems are significant.

A small fraction of the city was on a boil water notice due to water main pressure drops in that area of town. I do not have a decent backup means of cooking or heating water if required other than a charcoal grill (with a small amount of charcoal onhand) or a tiny wood-wired Solo Stove w/ backup alcohol burner.


----------



## turbodog (Feb 21, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Well if we are going down the list of what happened... a lot of this knowledge was paid for dearly by living through Katrina back in 2005.


I got scared about the faucet covers also. Wrapped the plastic cover with a bath towel and applied tape to hold it in place. Then I wrapped that huge bundle with a plastic trash bag and applied more tape. We got down to about 6F on the coldest night (we were pre-chilled to 20F the day before), but nothing froze.

Many people I know lost water. We had filled up a bathtub, 10gal laundry sink, 15 gal utility sink, and a 5 gallon bucket.

Vehicles were filled the day before, and 20 gallons of gas was available in jugs also.

(2) 250w heat lamp bulbs were purchased but NOT used. *They are cheap and handy for thawing stuff out, as well as an efficient way to use generator power to stay warm without heating the whole house/room up.*

A small amount of extra food was bought, but nothing big. Mainly some snacks.

We are covered on the generator front, 14kw nat gas unit w/ auto crank/transfer. Then 2 older eu2000 units that get loaned out as needed.

Chainsaw, chains, fuel/lube, and so on were ready. But using these in an emergency, with limited transportation to the ER dept, while ice covers everything... not such a good idea. They were for emergency use only. General cleanup can wait till the ice is gone and things are back to normal.


----------



## scout24 (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

So, after watching what happened and is still going on in Texas, I've made a small list of "wants" for our preps. One is a water bob for the tub, another is a Mr. Heater indoor rated propane heater with the requisite hoses and adapters/regulators to run off of bbq tanks and our bulk tanks alongside the house.


----------



## Poppy (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

scout24,
It is amazing how often I find myself thinking along the same lines as you.

After seeing the problems in Texas, I find myself thinking about what else shall I do to be better prepared?

The tub, water bob is a good idea. Years ago, I discounted it for myself, because I am on city water, and I doubt that I would ever be concerned enough about a potential loss of water supply, with enough warning, that I would actually USE it, so I never bought one. More likely than not, it would be a "Oh SNAP! I should have filled that bob up!" I suppose that I could always use garbage bag lined garbage cans. I do have a box of 50 gallon bags.

Regarding toilet flushing: One of my Christmas presents a few years back was a "Luggable Loo" it is a seat that sits on top of a five gallon bucket. You can line the bucket with a plastic bag, and dispose of it as needed. Recently I thought, that one can line his home toilet with a plastic bag and toss it after use, if there wasn't a water supply.

One of the things that came to mind is that plumbing supplies, disappeared from the shelves. So today, I checked my house. I found that I have a 3/4" copper supply, that drops down to 1/2" supply to the sinks and tub. I have two zone hot water heat. One zone is 3/4" copper, and the other is 3/4" plastic. I am considering getting a short length of each type of pipe, and sweat fitting couplings in 1/2 and 3/4" copper, and whatever couplings for the plastic.

I had a Mr Heater 15,000 BTU on top of the tank radiant heater, that I gave to my son, when he was on all electric. I suppose that if I get desperate I can bring in the propane grill. I'd have to double check my CO sensor. Being on Natural gas, things would have to be dire enough that bugging out may be a better solution.

I just checked my boiler, and it is 120,000 btu unit. It cycles on and off, so I don't know how many btu's I'd need on really cold days, but the 15,000 btu Mr. Heater pales in comparison. There's a 30,000 btu unit available, maybe I should have gotten that.


----------



## bykfixer (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

We have a setup for a mini home if needed. Pick a small room to hunker down in. The Mr Heater sounds perfect for that. Nice n quiet so roving bandits won't hear the generator to steal. 
A friend of mine who owns a construction company has a 120 gallon propane tank hooked to his gas grill. They use it in winter to heat the shop and in summer to have large cookouts.


----------



## orbital (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



Poppy said:


> scout24,
> It is amazing how often I find myself thinking along the same lines as you..



+

*Logic is inevitable 

___________________________

*Think of all the worst things that could happen:
Fire 
Freezing
Flood
Hurricane / Tornado
Earthquake
ect..

Making a short list of everything you must do _in sequence_ & have preparations of each.
Laminate that list for each, have them in a safe place.

_If some of the steps overlap,, then you're on the right track.


_btw: walking around filming the disaster with your phone is the exact opposite of what you should be doing at that moment.


----------



## turbodog (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

After coming through the recent storm and seeing people try and heat their home with a generator...

(2) 1500w space heaters (burning about a gallon an hour) kept a 1500sqft great room pretty comfortable.

I would pickup a heat lamp. Good way to deliver heat right to you even if you don't have enough power to heat the whole area.


----------



## idleprocess (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



scout24 said:


> So, after watching what happened and is still going on in Texas, I've made a small list of "wants" for our preps. One is a water bob for the tub, another is a Mr. Heater indoor rated propane heater with the requisite hoses and adapters/regulators to run off of bbq tanks and our bulk tanks alongside the house.



After living through it - untouched by little more than an incredible stroke of luck - I'm also rethinking my disaster prep.

I've certainly rambled on at length about procuring and making my electrical panel ready for a generator in other threads, but certain other gaps were made apparent during this event.

The UPS running my ONT (fiber terminal) crumpled during a brief power outage. Not sure if the battery was kaput or the thing didn't care for the nearly single-digit temperatures in the garage. Swapped it out with another that was sitting idle that it tested good and I insulated a bit. But I probably need to find a way to run the ONT from DC backup power, which will surely be more efficient than the DC-AC-DC of a UPS.
I had no means to boil any significant quantity of water. I've got no small amount of water onhand in the form of bulk storage and bottled water, but if I had to boil water I'd either be using a backpacking-sized wood/alcohol stove or futzing around with a small Weber charcoal grill.
My water storage is a bit ... haphazard and needs retooling
I've got shelf-stable foods a-plenty, but haven't really worked them into meals I can prep easily and routinely


----------



## turbodog (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



idleprocess said:


> ...
> [*]The UPS running my ONT (fiber terminal) crumpled during a brief power outage. Not sure if the battery was kaput or the thing didn't care for the nearly single-digit temperatures in the garage. Swapped it out with another that was sitting idle that it tested good and I insulated a bit. But I probably need to find a way to run the ONT from DC backup power, which will surely be more efficient than the DC-AC-DC of a UPS.
> [*]I had no means to boil any significant quantity of water. I've got no small amount of water onhand in the form of bulk storage and bottled water, but if I had to boil water I'd either be using a backpacking-sized wood/alcohol stove or futzing around with a small Weber charcoal grill.
> ...



The power usage is so low for that equipment I would not worry about conversion losses.

The eu2k... all hot air exits back and DOWN. I don't know about boiling, but you could set some metal containers back there are have TONS of hot water for bathing/etc. The yamaha ef2800i that I fixed the other day provided tons of hot air, but you could not harness it.

If you are concerning about conversion efficiencies... start with the water angle first. A 5 gallon propane tank, with adapter, will run a 2 burner camping stove for days. This handles all the cooking/boiling needs very conveniently, efficiently, and cheaply.


----------



## idleprocess (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



turbodog said:


> The power usage is so low for that equipment I would not worry about conversion losses.


I'm more concerned about runtime and reliability during an outage during the minutes until I switch over to generator power. A bigger/better UPS will do the trick, but I still have to swap SLAs every <24 months due to their crummy charging circuits and still pay the DC-AC price at the UPS then AC-DC price in the ONT's PSU. A ~18AH SLA on a decent battery tender powering the PSU's 12V aux port only pays the DC-DC penalty within the PSU which is apt to be more efficient than the previous cycle and removes a lot of complexity even if I put a simple 12V regulator on the SLA's output. The UPS has no other job and I expect I could run the ONT for at least 24 hours with such an arrangement.



turbodog said:


> If you are concerning about conversion efficiencies... start with the water angle first. A 5 gallon propane tank, with adapter, will run a 2 burner camping stove for days. This handles all the cooking/boiling needs very conveniently, efficiently, and cheaply.


Given that I'm likely to develop a modest propane infrastructure, this is pretty reasonable.


----------



## Stress_Test (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



orbital said:


> .............
> 
> Making a short list of everything you must do _in sequence_ & have preparations of each.
> Laminate that list for each, have them in a safe place.
> ...



That is _excellent _advice about the list. In my line of work we have written procedures (for pretty much everything) that we're supposed to follow. The procedure serves as a checklist to make sure you don't forget anything; it's _easy to forget or miss steps_ when you're highly stressed and under pressure.

Same reason pilots have checklists that they supposedly follow.


----------



## Stress_Test (Feb 28, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

I have used a simple heating pad to warm myself up when I didn't want to run a space heater or the main unit. The heating pad I've got is big enough to cover my thighs, or most of my chest/stomach area. 

It only uses 40 watts so that's a pretty efficient way to warm yourself. Put the pad against your shirt, then overlap your coat or a blanket on top of that to seal in the heat, and you'll be toasty warm soon. Heating your core like that makes a big difference. 

If you've got some automotive or other large batteries to use with an inverter, you'd probably get hours of use per charge.


----------



## scout24 (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Poppy- I am sorry to hear we're thinking alike... I like the idea of trash cans with liners for water, hadn't thought of that. I have two clean metal cans with chicken supplies and food in them which could be repurposed, and usually have a box of contractor bags somewhere. Bykfixer: The idea of a big tent in a small room really makes sense from a conserving energy standpoint, I need to give that some more thought. As long as I could fit a queen sized matress or the entire bed in it, Mrs. Scout may be receptive. Sleeping bags on the floor might be a tough sell, lol. Idleprocess- I found a two burner Coleman camp stove that needed some cleaning on FB Marketplace cheap, one of the green metal clamshell or "suitcase" ones . Great for boiling water, making coffee, and light cooking. I was gifted a white gas version, but that's for outside use. No need for liquid fuel indoors...


----------



## Poppy (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

scout, I have a suitcase white gas style stove too. When I wasn't allowed to bring liquid gas camping anymore, I bought a propane adapter for it. Sometime over the past 50 years, the pump/tank has been discarded. The adapter can be had for 15-$20.

Shortly after, or during Sandy, I gifted a single burner propane cook top that I got at Kmart, or Walmart for about $15-20. 
I see that butane ones are more prominent, but propane ones are available. There are adapters to run camp stoves off of 20lb BBQ tanks.


----------



## orbital (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



Stress_Test said:


> That is _excellent _advice about the list. In my line of work we have written procedures (for pretty much everything) that we're supposed to follow. The procedure serves as a checklist to make sure you don't forget anything; it's _easy to forget or miss steps_ when you're highly stressed and under pressure.
> 
> Same reason pilots have checklists that they supposedly follow.



+

I realize that one may not have time to go and read through steps in a disaster,, I get it.
Having a list knocks the off rust off between the ears & makes you think of what needs to be done,,, reading them a couple times a year for a refresher.

__________________________________________________________________

My very favorite phrase is a French culinary one:_

*Mise en place*

..it literally means 'everything in place' not just physical things in place, but more mental organization in place.


----------



## turbodog (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



scout24 said:


> ... No need for liquid fuel indoors...



Hah! I used to cook on one back in college... indoors. Was doing ok till it malfunctioned, started pouring black smoke, and set off bldg fire alarm.


----------



## scout24 (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Ha! Good story, Turbodog.  After our house burning down, I'm leery about liquid fuels indoors. Oil lamps scare me too. Fire wasn't related to either, but I'm skittish. And I bought a bigger fire extinguisher.


----------



## turbodog (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



scout24 said:


> Ha! Good story, Turbodog.  After our house burning down, I'm leery about liquid fuels indoors. Oil lamps scare me too. Fire wasn't related to either, but I'm skittish. And I bought a bigger fire extinguisher.



FYI, there was a recall on kiddie extinguishers going back like 3-4 DECADES. I let the kids use them for practice and trashed the remaining ones.

Bought 5 brand new ones, size large. Keep 3 in the house (hall, kitchen (away from stove), and laundry), and 1 each (combustible liquid rated) in each outbuilding.

Almost lost a house to a brushfire myself. Forestry service sent out the dozer and cut a trench to save our place.

https://www.kidde.com/home-safety/en/us/support/product-alerts/recall-kidde-fire-extinguisher/


----------



## scout24 (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Great recall info, thanks! I wasn't aware.


----------



## markr6 (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

You mentioned the 2-burner stove. I have the classic green Coleman propane. $40 on Amazon a few years ago and only used it once. But still worth the money just in case. Very handy to have and well worth the money.

I think I'll buy another 20lb propane tank to just keep around for emergencies.

And then the wood backpacking stove, man, I could run that thing boiling water for months. Wouldn't really want to, but I could.


----------



## turbodog (Mar 1, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



markr6 said:


> ...
> I think I'll buy another 20lb propane tank to just keep around for emergencies.
> 
> ...



20lb tank holds 4.5 gallons propane, weighs 37lb full
30lb tanks holds 7.0 gallons propane, weighs 55lb full, and takes up practically the same space


----------



## markr6 (Mar 4, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

What do you guys think about keeping cash at home? Maybe a fireproof bag (never heard of such a thing until today)...inside a fireproof safe for double protection?


----------



## turbodog (Mar 4, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



markr6 said:


> What do you guys think about keeping cash at home? Maybe a fireproof bag (never heard of such a thing until today)...inside a fireproof safe for double protection?



Grandfather kept cash in coffee cans hidden in the barn. I just keep a reasonable amount of cash on my desk, next to the stamps, letter openers, and assorted lights.


----------



## Poppy (Apr 24, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*


Checking today's weather, I discovered that the National Weather Service proclaimed that this is:
Severe Weather Preparedness Week - April 25 - May 1, 2021


----------



## Poppy (Jun 10, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Five days ago, my neighbor asked... "How good are you about picking up dead animals? I'm a real sissy when it comes to that!"

It ended up being a dead rabbit, right at the foot of his mailbox. Tossed it into a garbage bag, and tied it up.

He asked... "What are you going to do with it?" 
I'll throw it into the garbage. With that he shivered, and backed up a bit. So I brought it home and threw it into my trash.

The following day, it started to smell, and the next day, there were flies galore! I had a gallon of bug spray, I put some into my sprayer, and sprayed it down, and dragged the trash can to the curb, three days early.

It reminded me of Sub_Umbra's thread about staying bugged IN during a disaster and the need for bug killer. If one little dead rabbit produced so many flies, I can't imagine, what things would be like if there were multiple carcasses lying around, and no trash pickup... YUK!!!

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?121453-An-Emergency-Water-Epiphany 

It is a good read.


----------



## idleprocess (Jun 10, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



Poppy said:


> It reminded me of Sub_Umbra's thread about staying bugged IN during a disaster and the need for bug killer. If one little dead rabbit produced so many flies, I can't imagine, what things would be like if there were multiple carcasses lying around, and no trash pickup... YUK!!!


The crows and vultures would get fat.


----------



## Burgess (Jun 10, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Great thread here !

lovecpf


With the current flurry of Online-Hacking,
our vulnerable electric grid could be rendered
"out of service" for a VERY long time . . . . .


One thing I've learned during my 60+ years as a Flashaholic: 

With dark-adapted eyes, in total darkness,
I can quite easily manage with very little light.
(in a non-threat situation)


Today's LED lights are very "thrifty" with their battery power.
And they often have multiple brightness settings, also.


Oh, BTW --
Today's vehicles don't seem to have their cigarette lighter operable
unless the engine is running. So be advised . . . .


_


----------



## Hooked on Fenix (Jun 10, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Hackers don't have to do anything for the power to go out in the west. We're running out of water so hydroelectric dams won't be working for much longer. Hoover dam is at a record low and the hydroelectric dam is producing 25% less power now. I heard that by August, it could be shut down completely. Oroville Lake in California is so low, they are removing houseboats from the lake. Oroville Dam is the tallest dam in the U.S. Get ready for some interesting times this year.


----------



## Poppy (Jun 10, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Overall, I think we are learning that we need to have back ups to our back ups. And we need to have the ability to overproduce, so that if one sector falters the others can crank up output to compensate for the loss.

Maybe we'll be looking at more nuclear, wind, wave (ocean), solar, etc.



> Oh, BTW --
> Today's vehicles don't seem to have their cigarette lighter operable
> unless the engine is running. So be advised . . . .



In my Dad's and daughter's cars, I found that there is a way to activate the cigarette lighter/power port for a couple of minutes by having the key fob nearby and pressing the START button, without depressing the brake pedal. Unfortunately after a couple of minutes the "Accessory" implementation failed. SO that is hardly way to recharge your phone, or flashlight.

In my daughter's car I ran a always HOT fused line to her cigar lighter. :thumbsup:


----------



## broadgage (Jun 15, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

If space permits, it can be worth fitting a second, deep cycle battery to a car or truck. When the engine is running, a relay connects the two batteries together and both are charged by the vehicle alternator.
When the engine is stopped, the relay opens and the extra battery may be used for many purposes, even if it be fully discharged in an emergency, the main vehicle battery is still fully charged and the engine may be started as normal.
The drawback of this arrangement is that the weight of the second battery increases the fuel consumption, by a small percentage, but the cost adds up over a year.

A neighbour of mine has fitted the extra wiring and a box for TWO additional batteries to a vehicle. The batteries are stored at home, but can be quickly fitted in an emergency. The extra batteries power multiple 12 volt outlets in the vehicle or could be removed for use elsewhere.

Take great care if dong this, the extra battery MUST be well fixed to prevent it becoming a lethal projectile in the event of collision.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Jun 15, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

It sounds like a lot of work to make room for more batteries in a vehicle when you don't really need them normally and only use them when they are removed. It would be simpler to just use a set of jumper cables and hook them up and let the vehicle idle for an hour to recharge them instead of carting them around to recharge them. Lead acid batteries are expensive and if not used much in a 4-7 year period the money is wasted on them better spent on tool batteries and power banks IMO. Around here we haven't had any outages for coming on 14 years now and I've replaced my battery twice during that time. A 12v lithium ion jump starter may be a better choice it is smaller, lighter and likely has a longer life and can easily be charged in a vehicle.


----------



## idleprocess (Jun 15, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



broadgage said:


> If space permits, it can be worth fitting a second, deep cycle battery to a car or truck. When the engine is running, a relay connects the two batteries together and both are charged by the vehicle alternator.
> When the engine is stopped, the relay opens and the extra battery may be used for many purposes, even if it be fully discharged in an emergency, the main vehicle battery is still fully charged and the engine may be started as normal.



The few uses I see for such setups are people who routinely need to run low/medium-draw electronics for long periods in their vehicles without idling the engine: law enforcement, penetration testers, site security, private investigators, overland campers.


----------



## orbital (Jun 16, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

+

Another _light 12V _option.

Take two of these https://www.rcjuice.com/clearance/hobbystar-6500mah-11-1v-3s-7 
connect them in parallel (13Ah)
https://www.rcjuice.com/hardware-accessories/series-parallel-

The use this extension https://www.rcjuice.com/hardware-accessories/terminals-adapter-plugs/ to connect to an inexpensive 12V inverter.
..then just find a basic inverter & make a connector.


All the battery stuff is like $86 shipped 

*AC power for emergency use (approx 2 pounds total & all the Amps you would ever need)*


----------



## turbodog (Jun 16, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



orbital said:


> +
> 
> Another _light 12V _option.
> 
> ...



Using hobby lipo packs without the overdischarge protection needed is asking to create an all-new disaster.


----------



## orbital (Jun 16, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



turbodog said:


> Using hobby lipo packs without the overdischarge protection needed is asking to create an all-new disaster.



+

*No problem at all*,, any inverter worth while will have Low Voltage protection.

Also: there are these for fun, they beep loudly at 3.2V 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DC3LH9C/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## orbital (Jun 16, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

+

Another added benefit to that 3S I mentioned:

It'll jump start your car in an emergency


----------



## Poppy (Jun 16, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

I gotta hate Costco and The Home Depot. It seems that whenever I walk into either store to get something, I come out with more stuff I didn't know I needed it until a saw it 

Today in costco, I came out with three cases of water, a case of paper towels, and a Scepter 5 gallon gas can. $17 they are $25 at Home Depot, and Amazon.

I now have three empty, 5 gallon cans. I figured that I would fill them up if there was an obvious chance of a power failure, such as an incoming hurricane. But now considering cyber attacks that come without any warning what-so-ever, I guess that I should keep more fuel on hand.


----------



## turbodog (Jun 16, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



orbital said:


> +
> 
> *No problem at all*,, any inverter worth while will have Low Voltage protection.
> 
> ...



And those that don't... will create an all-new problem.


----------



## orbital (Jun 16, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

+

We were talking about* inverters*,,, NO deep cell has a low voltage either.

lol:wave:


The inverters do low voltage internally.


----------



## turbodog (Jun 16, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



orbital said:


> +
> 
> We were talking about* inverters*,,, NO deep cell has a low voltage either.
> 
> ...



You're missing the point. Badly-handed lipo packs spontaneously decompose/disassemble into violent fireballs. Lead-acid batteries simply lose lifespan.


----------



## scout24 (Jun 17, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Poppy- See if there's a fuel station nearby that sells ethanol free gas. It'll be about the same price as premium, but stores a LOT longer without noticeable degradation. I routinely use it 12-18 months after purchase with no ill effects. No stabilizer, just the straight fuel. And you're right, it may be prudent to have a few full cans put aside. I called to have my two propane tanks here at the house topped off this week, the young lady on the phone must have thought I was crazy.


----------



## Poppy (Jun 17, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

scout24, there aren't any ethanol free stations near me. I wonder if high test stores better than 89 octane, and if it is worth the difference.

Which gas stores better? Winter or summer gas?


----------



## turbodog (Jun 17, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



Poppy said:


> scout24, there aren't any ethanol free stations near me. I wonder if high test stores better than 89 octane, and if it is worth the difference.
> 
> Which gas stores better? Winter or summer gas?



Winter is more volatile... which would evaporate easier. 

My experience is that quality gas cans, tightly sealed, and stored well do fine for long periods of time. All my cans are either 1) the original rubbermaid or 2) eagle cans.

The rubbermaid cans are holding tough, but I buy aftermarket spouts as rubbermaid doesn't sell the old flex-spouts anymore.

The eagle cans are where I will eventually end up. They are still made in the original design... and are explosion proof.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Jun 17, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



scout24 said:


> Poppy- See if there's a fuel station nearby that sells ethanol free gas. It'll be about the same price as premium, but stores a LOT longer without noticeable degradation. I routinely use it 12-18 months after purchase with no ill effects. No stabilizer, just the straight fuel. And you're right, it may be prudent to have a few full cans put aside. I called to have my two propane tanks here at the house topped off this week, the young lady on the phone must have thought I was crazy.


I've used real gas 3 years later with no issues whatsoever in mowers and weedeaters. I never put stabilizer in my gas and my Toro mower starts up second or third pull every spring for the first time and thereafter mostly the first pull the rest of the season.


----------



## orbital (Jun 17, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



turbodog said:


> You're missing the point. Badly-handed lipo packs spontaneously decompose/disassemble into violent fireballs. Lead-acid batteries simply lose lifespan.



+

Sorry. No they don't. 
I use LiPo cells for alot of things daily, they don't just spontaneously explode. Honestly that's a laugh.
Not sure how many LiPo packs I have (many) & again *use daily*, I'v never had a problem,,, ever.

If I pushed you on the LiPo packs you own or your charger(s),, _maybe_, you would go to an rc forum to get an answer.
,. if not*, enjoy them & stop being afraid of them*.



The fact LiPo cells have a balance leads makes them safer than other packs that could have suspect voltage balance.


----------



## orbital (Jun 17, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

+

Lithium Polymer batteries:

Several years ago I made a DC powered LED light bar setup for my snowblower. Really clean 'factory' lookin build. 
Made a waterproof enclosure for two 3-cell lithium polymer batteries in series.

After snowblowing one time in 2018, I decided to leave the batteries in their little waterproof enclosure, just disconnecting the positive lead.

Somehow they made contact and lit the light-bar (high'ish amp draw) and fully overdischarged my two cells.
_this was a user error on my part, never to be repeated._

anyway, I revived the two cells the next day & still use them daily today, without issue.

Lithium Polymer batteries are in more & more things for good reason, they have excellent performance.
Absolutely, they could power an 'emergency use' inverter in your car, without question.

___________


----------



## turbodog (Jun 17, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



orbital said:


> +
> 
> ... I'v never had a problem,,, ever.
> 
> ...



I'm gonna come down hard on you due to some falsehoods that, if followed, will eventually result in *life/property* damage.


Means literally nothing that one person has gotten lucky with lipo packs for a period of time. Good for you. Hope your luck holds out.

If I want legitimate info, I will go to the mfg. And all mfgs are saying the same thing:
Do *NOT *overdischarge. 
*If overdischarged, recharging will eventually result in a fire.*
Lipo packs are to be given the utmost respect.
Etc.
Read for yourself. https://power.tenergy.com/lipo-safety-warnings/

Lipos have a balance lead BECAUSE they are intrinsically dangerous. I don't read stories about nicd/nimh/lead-acid burning down houses.

There is a difference between afraid and respectful.

Additionally... to recommend something 1) dangerous and 2) not endorsed by the battery mfg on a public forum is *opening yourself up for a nice fat lawsuit when someone gets hurt.*


----------



## orbital (Jun 18, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

+

turbodog, I actually own Lithium Polymer batteries & have used them daily for the last 8 1/2 years, you do not.

The discussion ends there.

::side note, bought a high end notebook a couple years ago for emergency backup,
the charger for the notebooks' Lithium Polymer Battery in it is 19.5V @ 11.8A = *battery performance

============================================================

Disaster ready is not only a plan, but the willingness to try different things & think outside the box. 
Being able to troubleshooting & make whatever you need. 

One thing that concerns me the most are people easily told what to think. 
*


----------



## idleprocess (Jun 18, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Can we _generally_ agree upon the original point?


turbodog said:


> Badly-handed lipo packs spontaneously decompose/disassemble into violent fireballs.


Lipo batteries lack the more robust mechanical construction of the cylindrical cells common to flashlights, thus must be physically handled with greater care. Similar to li-ion, their charging and discharging regimens must be adhered to; while we've all heard of deep-discharged li* cells coming back from the dead, doing so is a risk unlike NiMH/NiCd/PbA.

Most inverters do indeed cut out at a given voltage so as to avoid over-discharging their source. It's a near-universal feature in even cheap 12V/24V PbA inverters, which while marketed as being a safety feature likely has roots in more mundane component minimum voltage and current limits. No reason that an inverter tuned for li* voltage ranges couldn't be configured to cut out at a safe minimum voltage.


----------



## turbodog (Jun 18, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



orbital said:


> +
> 
> turbodog, I actually own Lithium Polymer batteries & have used them daily for the last 8 1/2 years, you do not.
> 
> ...



News to me. Where did you get this nugget of misinformation?


----------



## turbodog (Jun 18, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



idleprocess said:


> Can we _generally_ agree upon the original point?
> 
> ... No reason that an inverter tuned for li* voltage ranges couldn't be configured to cut out at a safe minimum voltage.



Yes, and a lipo-power inverter is a bit of a moot point. Not enough pack capacity to run much load for a useful time. Which is a not the fault of the chemistry, simply the capacity/size.


----------



## orbital (Jun 18, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



turbodog said:


> Yes, and a lipo-power inverter is a bit of a moot point. Not enough pack capacity to run much load for a useful time. Which is a not the fault of the chemistry, simply the capacity/size.



+

Yes, it's not a voltage issue or a voltage cut-off issue (since the inverters take care of that) _If the inverter cuts off at 10V, a three cell will only be at 3.33V each cell = non issue.
_but it's the fact they *can* be used in an emergency.

*A piece of medical equipment, ect...
*Runtime is a factor, units should be in parallel & used just for emergency only, but they will work_ (13Ah or even 16Ah could possibly save someones life)

Thanks for the message turbodog:thumbsup:


_


----------



## idleprocess (Jun 18, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



turbodog said:


> Yes, and a lipo-power inverter is a bit of a moot point. Not enough pack capacity to run much load for a useful time. Which is a not the fault of the chemistry, simply the capacity/size.


Depends on the need.

I had a power outage a couple months ago some ~90 minutes before the end of the work day. First UPS running my monitor + dock died ~30 minutes in. Figuring that the rest were soon to follow I decided to go _minimal_ - powered them all down, undocked the laptop, tethered the laptop to the work phone, broke out the ONE+ 150W peak inverter, connected the phone and laptop to the inverter, then soldiered on for another hour at the cost of ~25% of a 9Ah battery. I could probably go all day if I adjusted power settings on the laptop to save power.


----------



## orbital (Jun 21, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*



idleprocess said:


> Depends on the need.
> 
> I had a power outage a couple months ago some ~90 minutes before the end of the work day. First UPS running my monitor + dock died ~30 minutes in. Figuring that the rest were soon to follow I decided to go _minimal_ - powered them all down, undocked the laptop, tethered the laptop to the work phone, broke out the ONE+ 150W peak inverter, connected the phone and laptop to the inverter, then soldiered on for another hour at the cost of ~25% of a 9Ah battery. I could probably go all day if I adjusted power settings on the laptop to save power.



+

===============================
<> DIY ultra portable inverter system <>
===============================

Acquired a small 12V Samlex* pure sine inverter, paired with two 3-cell Lithium Polymer battery packs (16Ah in parallel configuration)
To ensure the wattage was a consistent draw, used with two Honeywell air purifiers (72.5W total for both)

~note~ normally store Lithium Polymers batteries between 3.65~3.95V,, *this test was done at a modest storage voltage of 3.94V per cell*.
_Fully charged batteries will __obviously give much longer runtime._

Test I: Both air purifiers ran for 85 min. 
Inverter Auto-Off was 10.39V or 3.46V per cell
__________________________________________________________
Recharged both battery packs at 8A to 3.94V per cell & ran the test again!
__________________________________________________________

Test II: Both air purifiers ran for 85min.
Inverter Auto-Off was 10.39V or 3.46V per cell

So, average runtime from *storage voltage * was identical
_again, fully charged batteries will give much longer runtime than this._

......Now instead of the air purifiers, picture a piece of medical equipment or an emergency ________.
Some electronics need pure waveform & that's key here.


Finally, have the entire setup in a small waterproof hardcase** (w/ foam interior) for a clean, ultra portable inverter system.

cheers



* https://samlexamerica.com/products/120-watt-pure-sine-wave-inverter-pst-120-12/
** my setup will be in a Nanuk 910 which has extra room for other batteries ect.

~ Including hardcase, approx. 6 pounds total for the system ~


----------



## idleprocess (Jun 22, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Suspect I'll be putting said ONE+ inverter to the test tomorrow _(or maybe the monolithic 'portable outlet' I have in my work bag)_ - electrician is threatening to show up and install an interlock and generator inlet.


----------



## scout24 (Jun 22, 2021)

*Re: disaster ready*

Idleprocess- Nothing better than not having to run extention cords. Enjoy, but I hope you never have to use it...


----------



## Poppy (Jul 29, 2021)

idleprocess,
Do you have an update for us?
Inquiring minds want to know


----------



## idleprocess (Jul 29, 2021)

Poppy said:


> idleprocess,
> Do you have an update for us?
> Inquiring minds want to know



It's been an adventure. On the 22nd of June the electrician did _part_ of the job.

Additional 60A 240V breaker _(good)_
Additional _riser_ J-box on the outside wall _(uhm, OK)_
14-50 *outlet* atop said J-box beneath an all-weather cover _(buh?)_
Electrician said they ordered the wrong interlock kit so they had to order another one which would take some time. Did not explain the outlet _(suppose I can run my dryer or oven outside - a bit far away from the driveway for any wandering Teslas that happen to packing a destination charger) _but I'm assuming it's for code compliance and because some rando somewhere probably closed an infeed breaker at some point without the interlock, licked their finger, then touched an energized prong to experience *240V* magic pixies.

Since then I've had semiweekly e-mails with the service manager. First they'd presumably sourced a L14-50P inlet, which is effectively useless because L14-50 cord hardware is _unobtanium_. Now they're trying to find an alternative (they haven't responded up or down to SS2-50 and CS6364) 120V/240V 30A that 'fits into the box they installed', which is weird since I can find L14-30 inlets easily enough.

I might just DIY the rest of it if they can't find the parts _(or possibly *the time*)_ soon.


----------



## Poppy (Jul 29, 2021)

Urggh,
Dealing with contractors can be so frustrating!

With the preparedness mindset, you might pick up whatever connectors you might need to make it work, so that you have them "on-hand" incase you need to back feed the out door dryer connection. You obviously know that you need to throw the main before supplying power to the panel.

It would be a heck of a thing to be so close and yet too far to make the connection, should an outage occur. 

Thanks for the update... sorry for the problems.


----------



## idleprocess (Jul 30, 2021)

Poppy said:


> With the preparedness mindset, you might pick up whatever connectors you might need to make it work, so that you have them "on-hand" incase you need to back feed the out door dryer connection. You obviously know that you need to throw the main before supplying power to the panel.


Yeah, I can buy the components for a _suicide cord_ and use it safely-ish by only connecting it before the generators are started and before the infeed breaker is closed and only be out a 14-50 plug whenever the final arrangement is made.

EDIT: Appears that after some prodding the electrician claims to have sourced an inlet and will be scheduling completion Real Soon Now™.


----------



## Poppy (Aug 21, 2021)

Hurricane Henri is getting ready to hit the NY, NJ, Connecticut tri-state area.








When will Hurricane Henri winds, heavy rain hit N.J.? Updated storm track.


New Jersey is bracing for heavy rains as Hurricane Henri readies landfall in the northeast.




www.nj.com





I looked around, and am happy. I cleared my rain gutters, and put the cushions for the chairs away. Started my 3500 watt gennie... all's good!

I have food, water, gasoline, and a generator. I have a back up gennie, and a back up window AC.

It is a good feeling knowing that I don't have to run out to get the basics, just in case. They are already here! 

I called a friend who is medically power dependent, and who lives in the center of long island, which is going to be hit the hardest. They tested their generator and got gas for it. They feel that they are prepared.

It reminds me of Sub_Umbra's thread... "water epiphany" If you are prepared before-hand, things are a LOT LESS stressful.


----------



## scout24 (Aug 21, 2021)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/an-emergency-water-epiphany.121453/



Sub umbra's thread.
For those interested. Not required reading, but it should be. Well worth the time.


----------

