# 14w HID Maglite super thrower 330,000 lux!



## ledpwr (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi all

This is my first Mag mod, the aim of this mod was to get the maximum possible throw out of a standard Maglite host while keeping the size, runtime and costs reasonable, I decided to go HID as it has 2-5 times the candlepower of a 52mm aspheric while having similar efficiency, good colour rendering and a more usable beam pattern with spill.

My main inspiration for this project was Ra’s 10w mini HID monster found here

My lights main components are:
3D Maglite host
Solarc hid bulb and regulated 14/9.5w ballast 
High quality electroformed reflector
3 dimensional bulb focusing mechanism
Anti reflective glass lens
12 eneloops in a battery holder

Its specs are:
Calculated 800 OTF lumens on high or 400 OTF lumens on low
Over 1.5 hours on high or over 2 hours on low
Amazing throw! (I have ordered the DX lux meter so I will have some numbers within a few weeks, I am hoping for 200,000-300,000 lux @1m!)
The total cost is around £140 ($225) excluding batteries.
Weighs about 870g

*Update:
My luxmeter has arrived
I have measured the lux at 15m and then converted it back to 1m. I then added 20% on to the value as the DX meter reads consistently 20% too low.

At the middle focus I managed to get an impressive 205,000 lux* *

The anode hotspot focus gave me 324,000 lux while the cathode hotspot focus gave me an amazing 330,000 [email protected]**:rock:
This means it can light up an object 575m away with 1 lux.

This was above my expectations so I am very happy as this puts it up with the higher powered HID and very large reflector incandecent spotlights. 
The very small difference between each hotspot surprised me but my meter is calibrated for incans so the bluer anode hotspot could indeed be brighter than the warmer cathode hotspot. *


The original Maglite switch turns the light on and off. The two LED’s tell me when the batteries are getting low or they are almost dead, a comparator controls them. The small tactile switch changes the ballast from high to low, it is controlled by a 4017 counter.








12 AA eneloops in a homemade battery holder power the torch for a calculated 1.5 hours on high (1000 bulb lumens) or over 2 hours on low (500 bulb lumens). I decided to use eneloops rather than Li-ions mainly because of safety and also the capacity difference is relatively minor unless I was use 3 unprotected 32600s, also I have the option of using alkalines if necessary. One thing I found that was a big advantage is that 4 eneloops can fit in a Maglite without boaring but it is a very tight fit and the batteries *must* be positioned so the place where the label overlaps is facing into the centre.







In order to get maximum throw out of a HID bulb you need to focus on the hotspots inside the arc formed next to each electrode. These 0.03mm big hotspots have a significantly higher luminance/surface brightness than the rest of the arc, this allows you to get significantly higher throw but this can only be done effectively with a high quality reflector and no protective bulb cover that causes "optical arc displacement". The hotspots are clearly shown in this picture of the arc projected onto paper using a small lens. The different colours in the arc are caused by the overfilling of the bulb. The arc gap of this bulb is about 1.4mm






In order to accurately focus on a hotspot I decided to buy a high quality 2” electroformed reflector by Phoenix. When I was ordering from them they accidentally got the shipping cost wrong so they kindly sent me a similar reflector for free. I have decided to use this one, as it is shallower so it has given me more room behind the reflector for the bulb and focusing mechanism. I needed to file it down a bit as it was too wide to fit in the bezel. The Maglite head was quickly spun on my schools lathe so the reflector sits deeper and the bezel can screw down completely.







I have also designed a focusing mechanism to move the bulb from side to side to gain perfect focus on the hotspot. It was inspired by the Eznite 10w HID’s focusing mechanism except I move the bulb in a aluminium ring instead of the ballast. The low friction Teflon plumbers tape on the thread stops the head wobbling while still allowing the head to be screwed on and off. 







Here is an underexposed white wall shot showing the brighter central <0.5º spot formed by the tiny hotspot next to the anode, it is surrounded by the dimmer corona from the rest of the arc. This corona stretches out quiet far, (wider than in this picture) making this beam pattern very useful as it has a very bright hotspot along with a wide corona surrounded by a very wide spill! The very bright hotspot is capable of hitting low clouds or illuminating objects at well over 500m! The colour of the beam isn't as blue as in the pictures, in real life it looks to be around 5500k on high.







This beam shot is focused in the centre of the arc.







Cool reflector shot






Any questions?


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## flex76italy (Mar 29, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Hi, PM sent...but for other questions.

Thanks for your help!


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## ledpwr (Mar 29, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Flex your PM inbox is full so I can't reply. You need to delete some messages.


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## bigchelis (Mar 29, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Hey this super throw Mag build is really nice. I want to make my own, but lack the skills. 

FYI: The Solarforce Masterpiece Reflector is huge compared to a Mag Deep Rebel Reflector and it fits a D size Mag. Since its deeper and bigger I bet you would get more throw then even your current reflectors. The Solarforce Masterpiece reflectors are sometimes sold in marketplace for $25 or $50 for the entire bezel assembly. These are SMOOTH and metal too.

PM comming your way.

bigC


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## ledpwr (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

I beleve the Solarforce Masterpiece Reflector is designed for LED's. If used with an HID, since the focus is right at the bottom of the reflector you would waste around half the light out the hole, so the shallower the reflector the less light is lost out the back because the focal length increases. Also unlike LED's the depth of the reflector doesnt effect throw with HID's or incans because they edmit all their light over 360 degrees where as with LED's they edmit most of their light forwards so a deep reflector helps to capture and throw as much light as possible.

My reflector is a very high quality electroformed parabolic reflector, it should be higher quality than the solarforce reflector. I need a quality reflector to be able to focus on the tiny 0.03mm^3 hotspots also my reflector should beable to capture around 70% of the light edmited from the bulb with the rest forming the spill.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Nice job, looks like you've read some of RA's posts  
Would be interesting to see the lux reading difference between the two focusing mods, 
it doesn't look all that different in the pictures, the beam from 2nd one is probably more useful.


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## ledpwr (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



ma_sha1 said:


> Nice job, looks like you've read some of RA's posts
> Would be interesting to see the lux reading difference between the two focusing mods,
> it doesn't look all that different in the pictures, the beam from 2nd one is probably more useful.


 
And I have read a lot your great builds/mods
If I remember correctly, didn't you used to have the DX lux meter and was the correction factor you used to compensate for a high colour temperature +20% or was it something else?

Thanks


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## Ra (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Hi Ledpwr,

No, I don't have any questions, because there are no questions left to ask !! Well exept probably "Will you please hurry up with the cp-measurements?"

This is great! And the fact that you are quite a newbie at this site makes it even greater! You indeed should get high cp-ratings from that super torch..
The beampattern pictures look very promising. The theory predicts a cp-output closer to 200,000 because of the lower reflectivity of the Rhodium coated
reflector (aprox 76%) But I remember measurements of 225,000 cp on the Eznite I tested earlier, so it should be that or even beond. We'll see.
But a very great job indeed! Nice to see people inspired by my creations. My mini-HID still is very alive and kicking, I use it alot. I don't have the focusability
but you'll probably agree after a few months, that concentrating the focus at the arcs hotspot is all you need: The big region of sidespill around the central
spot is very usable, but thats my opinion.

Great work!

All the best,

Ra.


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## ledpwr (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Thanks for the kudos Ra

The reflector is aluminium coated so it has 90% average reflection and the bulb is about twice as powerful as the eznites so it should be interesting 
I do agree that the hotspot focus is the most usefull but the large colour variations across the beam are visible with this focus, hopefully they will die down with age.


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## Ra (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

90% is better of cource, but aluminium coatings deteriorate much faster by the UV, emitted by the bulb.
But it sure will give you at least 500-700 hours of high performance.
I didn't mind the color variations because I use torches to enlighten things, and the color rendering does not bother me much (within limits of cource)
But if it bothers you, I must tell you that they won't 'die down' with age, at least not the first 200 hours of use.. They are caused by the overfilling of the bulb,
so not all ingredients evaporate during operation, especially at low power. Also, when you remove the protective bulb to prevent 'optical arc displacement', the bulb is more
cooled by its surroundings, also causing the ingredients to not evaporate as much as they would with protective bulb. So you need to provide the bulb with at least
nominal power, and prefrably somewhat overdrive.
A twice as powerfull bulb does not mean twice the candlepower.. It will produce more lumens, but the 3-D size increase of the arc (1.27 v 1.4mm arc length) is significant
Each type of bulb has its own surface brightness, you can win some by overdriving the bulb, but going to far will destroy the electrodes and blacken the quartz envelope.
I use a 12-13 watts overdrive on my mini HID, which is just within (acceptable) limits..


Regards,

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



ledpwr said:


> And I have read a lot your great builds/mods
> If I remember correctly, didn't you used to have the DX lux meter and was the correction factor you used to compensate for a high colour temperature +20% or was it something else?
> 
> Thanks



Thanks & Yes, I've been using Dx meter for a long time, after reading various reports from people saying DX meter reading too low, varying from 15% too low to 40% too low, I decided to adopt DX+20% & have used that formular for many lux readings until recently, I finally broke down & bought the Extech EA30 Lux meter. I was pretty happy to see on the 5-6 lights I compared, the DX+20% is pretty close to my EA30 number. 

It's not related to Kelvin correction. The DX meter is consistent in reading low from Led to HID to short arc.

Ra,

I finally went out & did the 100 meter lux readings of my 4 short arc spotlights, including the Maxa Beam, so no more beating me up on this 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Moon-Blaster&p=3605000&viewfull=1#post3605000


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## Ra (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



ma_sha1 said:


> It's not related to Kevin correction.




Who the 'blieb' is Kevin...? LOL...

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



Ra said:


> Who the 'blieb' is Kevin...? LOL...
> 
> Ra.


 
Who the 'blieb' said kevin? I don't see that in my OP? 
LOL, I paid my dues on the 100 meter lux, not you are beating me up for spelling?


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## Ra (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

OK then..... Who the 'blieb' is Kelvin..? :thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking:

Of course I'm beating you up for spelling: There is nothing else left to beat you up for, is there?

But lets not steal this thread with these hopefully not so fatal beatings... Sorry Ledpwr...

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

_Color temperature_, the _kelvin_,
did I spell that wrong too???


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## Walterk (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Great build! 
Nice to see the Phoenix reflectors being used, finally some reference on CPF on those.
I witnessed Ra's mini HID, it really is a lovely thrower. Seems to me you'll get the arc focussed well, looks pretty close already.


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## LiteShow (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Great Mod!

I do like your home made battery holder. Simple yet does the trick. You just gave me some ideas!


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## Ra (Mar 30, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



ma_sha1 said:


> _Color temperature_, the _kelvin_,
> did I spell that wrong too???


 
No, you didn't.. I just wanted to act like a noob and ask you about kelvin...
But no more beatings...:grouphug:


Ra.


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## cmacclel (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Would you care to share how much the reflector cost? Also how can you adjust the bulb focus without moving the ballast?

Thanks Mac


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## bigchelis (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



cmacclel said:


> Would you care to share how much the reflector cost? Also how can you adjust the bulb focus without moving the ballast?
> 
> Thanks Mac



Not my build, but I have heard that these are like $55 or so when they are made for LED's.

So, it would be good to know what these costs when they are designed for the HID.

bigC


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## ledpwr (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

The reflector cost $32 with $8 for shipping to the uk so they are not too expensive.

The bulb is sitting in an aluminium ring above the ballast it has three screws going in to it from the outside. I had to file/lathe down the ballasts face and solder some extra wires onto the bulb pins/wires. Focusing it is a pain as I have to turn the bulb off and unscrew the head to get at the screws.


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## Walterk (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

And do you know a reasonable source for finding the solarc ballast and bulb?
Would like to repeat this formula!


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## ledpwr (Mar 31, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

I bought the bulb and ballast from a recent group buy over at the marketplace. 
The bulb and ballast was obtained directly from Ushio, they have a $100 minimum order.


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## Walterk (Apr 2, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Thx. Must have missed that one. Potted and unpotted.


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## ledpwr (Apr 9, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Here are some beamshots in the field sorry for the blured pictures as I don't have a tripod.:shakehead

A tree 340m away (in the distance)








A building 490m away (anode focus)







The same building with cathode focus







I can't tell if the anode or cathode focus has more candlepower, but the cathode hotspot is alot warmer in colour. I will find out which is brighter when my lux meter arrives.
I was *just* about able to light up some dark trees 700m away so I recon it could light up a white building at around 1km+ if the visibility is perfect!:rock:


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## kiely23+ (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



ledpwr said:


> The reflector cost $32 with $8 for shipping to the uk so they are not too expensive.
> 
> The bulb is sitting in an aluminium ring above the ballast it has three screws going in to it from the outside. I had to file/lathe down the ballasts face and solder some extra wires onto the bulb pins/wires. Focusing it is a pain as I have to turn the bulb off and unscrew the head to get at the screws.



Do have a link to order this reflector?
Thanks...


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## ledpwr (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



kiely23+ said:


> Do have a link to order this reflector?
> Thanks...



The reflector I am using is not on their website, it is part number PA13.2AQ, it requires a lot of filing to get it to fit inside the maglite bezel.
The origional reflector I ordered is PA1.2AQ It is on their website here, It fits without any modification but it was too deep. You order from them by email.


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## kiely23+ (Apr 10, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*



ledpwr said:


> The reflector I am using is not on their website, it is part number PA13.2AQ, it requires a lot of filing to get it to fit inside the maglite bezel.
> The origional reflector I ordered is PA1.2AQ It is on their website here, It fits without any modification but it was too deep. You order from them by email.


thanks...


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## VegasF6 (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Bravo! I mean really, my first mod was a ROP and what does that really amount to? Changing a light bulb? I dunno if anyone has said so but you are off to a brilliant future if that's your starting point! Oh yah, I can't spell either. What's that got to do with genius?


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## googietools (Apr 11, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Im AMAZED!! I wish I had the tech skills as some of you guys


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## ledpwr (Apr 12, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

I have updated the first post with some lux readings as my lux meter has now arrived!
Unfortunately the pictures are not working at the moment.


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## Walterk (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Reminds me of this reflector: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?215939-PH50-disassembled


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*

Bravo! Very impressive numbers for the size!

What happened to all your pictures?


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## ledpwr (Apr 13, 2011)

*Re: 14w HID Maglite super thrower*




ma_sha1 said:


> Bravo! Very impressive numbers for the size!
> 
> What happened to all your pictures?


 

Thanks 
Apparently photobucket is "experiencing some maintenance issues which affect a small percentage of our users" they say the pictures should be working soon.

Edit: The pictures are working now.


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## epocobliss2012 (May 23, 2011)

That is a very IMPRESSIVE mag mod!!! That could generate goverment intrest for police and military use. You could be on the right path for an invention, or sugnificant product improvement. Talk about a bright future I can see mag mod kits like this hitting the market BIG TIME!!!!:thumbsup:


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