# Ansmann 2850 AA Cells Performance Results!



## MarioJP (Oct 1, 2009)

Since there are hardly any reviews or barely known, well I am about to give my legit review based on what I have experience so far with these cells.

I got these cells 2 days ago and all I have to say is WOW the reviews were not kidding at all. Never have I used a cell that has a very solid performance. In fact it beats energizers 2500, Duracells 2650 and even Sanyo 2700, and it is par with Energizer Ultimate Lithium in terms of Lasting power.

In fact I decide not to do a break in and decided to just charge the first cycle. This is just the first recharge/discharge cycle. Results are??. I am very very impressed. It charged my blackberry Phone from completely dead to 95% on the first charge cycle.

Another thing I noticed about these cells is that it is hard for these cells to heat up during charging/discharging. Not even brand new white tops Duraloops cells stays that cool during discharge. It even comes with the 2 year warranty if the cell should fail withing the 2 year period.

So far its only been 2 days and only charged them once so I will keep you guys posted.


The physical quality of these cells are made well. Much better quality than the duracells 2650 and slightly better than the Eneloops or Duraloops. Don't get me wrong these are great cells, but i wasn't too satisfied since my mobile charger will eat the duraloops. Still much better than alkalines but still.

But these 2850 Cells are the king of performance hands down!!. They have a very low internal resistance. My Mobile charger actually stays cool. That never happens with any of the other cells I tried in the past. Even brand new cells.

Also want to say that all of the 4 cells out of the package were exactly 1.14v that means that these cells are in good shape. Though they don't have a manufacture date but from the results they are pretty new cells.


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## Marduke (Oct 1, 2009)

Run a test cycle on them and I think you'll be surprised.


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## MarioJP (Oct 1, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Run a test cycle on them and I think you'll be surprised.



I think I will when I get the time. Right now i need to keep a backup power source when I am on the go lol.

These cells are slightly lighter than the Duracells 2650.

I can give the Label Info

AA HR6 2850mAh (AKKU) the AKKU means lol.


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## monkeyboy (Oct 1, 2009)

I only have good things to say about Ansmann batteries. I had a bunch of AA 2700 Ansmann's for 3+ years now and they're still going strong despite all the abuse i've put them through.
I've tried Energizer and Uniross cells which have died within one year.

Some years ago, I came across a test of Ansmann 2300's over 100 cycles (website is no longer up) and they outperformed even the Sanyo 2300's which were top performers at the time.

I also own the Ansmann energy 8 charger but I'm not too impressed with that. The "auto discharge" function seems to discharge for a set time regardless of the state of the battery (even if it's completely flat). Occasionally it can terminate charge early too.

I'm interested to see your test results on the 2850's Mario.


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## 45/70 (Oct 1, 2009)

Interesting. I wonder who makes Ansmann batteries? I'm sure they don't, so that'd make them rebadged ........????

Dave


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## MarioJP (Oct 1, 2009)

I also noticed that these cells can handle large amount of current whether its from charging or discharging, plus on the labe it saya "fast rechargeable"


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## vali (Oct 1, 2009)

The truth about if they are good or not will be disclosed after some use 1 year or so). Several high capacity cells were good when new, but after some cycles/use they developed very high self discharge or the capacity was greatly reduced.


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## VidPro (Oct 1, 2009)

performance results??? more like "first look".
the other assmann :naughty: batteries that were tested in various locations on the web, had good capacity, and low self discharge for not BEING an actual LSD cell, it will be interesting to see what happen in Time, when the other Thangs go all yuckey.


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## MarioJP (Oct 1, 2009)

VidPro said:


> performance results??? more like "first look".
> the other assmann :naughty: batteries that were tested in various locations on the web, had good capacity, and low self discharge for not BEING an actual LSD cell, it will be interesting to see what happen in Time, when the other Thangs go all yuckey.



Well reason for the "performance results" title is that eventually it is going to give me the final results. But from the start so far I am very impressed. So much energy crammed into a AA cell:devil:.

At the initial first charge cycle I actually had to keep an eye as for some reason the charger would terminate the charge too soon. This happened many times and was a bit frequent during the charging cycle. It would display "full" and I kept resetting the charger every time it did that. Until eventually voltage peaked at 1.48V-1.49V and that is when i stopped the charge.

The second charge cycle things went smoothly and this time no interruptions, and the charge stopped at 1.49V which is the correct timing to terminate the charge.

Update: Batteries starts to get warm when the current reaches 2.70Ah and terminates when it gets to 2.85Ah-2.90Ah
Only 2 Cells are being charged since my mobile charger uses 2AA and I rotate so this way I always have a set charged. So far the results are

Cell 1: Terminated at 2.94Ah 1.51V
Cell 2: Terminated at 2.97Ah 1.51V

I don't leave the batteries in the charger for trickle charging either. The capacities for these cells are too high for a 97ma trickle charge I think.
Charging Current Rate:1800mA (Does not seems to warm up the cells during charging at all, only starts to warm up when the cells are nearing to max capacity.)

Total time for both cells 1hr:34min

Not bad


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## Marduke (Oct 1, 2009)

Still waiting for a capacity check to check the real "performance".


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## MarioJP (Oct 1, 2009)

working on it lol. Also keep in mind that these cells are still new as I heard that brand new cells take several cycles to obtain full capacity. But so far in the "real world Performance" they do indeed perform very well from the start.

Results won't be in until tomorrow and would take 4-6 hours to fully discharge these cells at 500ma discharge rate. So I am going to get the results so far and see how much capacity theses cells really do have.

I will keep you posted


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## MarioJP (Oct 2, 2009)

So far with the 2 cells I have tested for the capacity are.

Cell 1 2500mAh
cell 2 2580mAh

Looks like still needs more cycles. My other set of cells which were tested in a real world. It finally charged my blackberry from 0 to 100%. Seems like these 2 cells are getting better.

These are the updates so far. One thing to know is that during charging one of the cells terminates too soon, or false termination. I am guessing is due to the cells are still new.

New cells will cause the charger to false terminates and eventually be eliminated after several cycle from what I read. Anyways I am still not done.


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 2, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> Also want to say that all of the 4 cells out of the package were exactly 1.14v that means that these cells are in good shape.


 
:thinking:

1.14 volts is nearly stone cold dead for NiMH!


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## MarioJP (Oct 3, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> :thinking:
> 
> 1.14 volts is nearly stone cold dead for NiMH!



I know that, but most were saying if the batteries comes 0 volts out of the package you might have a bad cell. I was just trying to find out if these cells were not completely dead.


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## davidefromitaly (Oct 3, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> So far with the 2 cells I have tested for the capacity are.
> 
> Cell 1 2500mAh
> cell 2 2580mAh
> ...



do you use a lacrosse bc900 for testing?


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## MarioJP (Oct 3, 2009)

davidefromitaly said:


> do you use a lacrosse bc900 for testing?



Yup!. 500mA discharge rate.

all 4 cells are currently testing in progress and has been discharging for 4 hours and still going.

Update: all 4 cells are done discharging and this is what I got

Cell 1: 2400mAh.
Cell 2: 2402mAh.
Cell 3: 2402mAh.
Cell 4: 2402mAh.

This is strange??. How did i get 2500mAh last time?? I am 400mAh short. Sounds like the charge terminated a bit too early. Any suggestions because I am confused:sigh:


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## Egsise (Oct 3, 2009)

According to Finnish consumer agencys test:
Capacity after 10 cycles: 2378mAh
Capacity after 50 cycles: 2419mAh
Capacity after 130 cycle: 2241mAh
Capacity after 20 days: 38%


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## Marduke (Oct 3, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> Yup!. 500mA discharge rate.
> 
> all 4 cells are currently testing in progress and has been discharging for 4 hours and still going.
> 
> ...



What setting are you using? The "Test" mode is the correct mode to use, NOT the discharge mode.

Also, I hope you learned to not blindly believe the number on the label, especially when it's beyond the current possibilities (ie. they are lying).


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## MarioJP (Oct 3, 2009)

I hope that is not the case. I am still not done testing these cells. I only use the discharge after full charging the cells.

I suppose I can use the test but that can take a very long time, though i haven't looked into that feature yet. What exactly does that do to the cells?

I want to know if these cells in fact can go up to 2850mAh. Maybe not perfect but at least close, overall they are solid performers rechargeables


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## Marduke (Oct 3, 2009)

Your cells will never get anywhere close to 2850, guaranteed. 

The capacity reported at the end of the discharge cycle (discharge > charge) is the CHARGE capacity, NOT the DISCHARGE capacity. It shows how much energy went INTO the cell, not what came OUT OF the cell.

The TEST mode (charge > discharge > charge) will display the DISCHARGE, or true capacity. 


It takes no more time than what you are doing since you need to start from charged anyhow. When you come home with discharge cells, put them on TEST at 1A/.5A, and they will be done by the next morning.


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## MarioJP (Oct 3, 2009)

I will try that instead makes things easier lol. But i do pay more attention to the discharge than the charge capacity. The charge capacity I use that as a reference to give me an idea about the cell status. I know that the charge being put in, does not mean is the charge that will comes out of these cells . I should at least get to 2700mAh true capacity though.

2400 is good but can be better.

Is it one of those things where the label says "4.7GB of storage" but in reality it is really 4.3GB Blank DVD? I can never understand why things are marketed that way.


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## Marduke (Oct 3, 2009)

2400 is actually rather low for a "high capacity" cell, especially when new, and especially when they are rated for "2850".

If you wanted ~2700mAh, I would have bought a quality cell that has actually been tested to deliver at or near that.


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## MarioJP (Oct 3, 2009)

But the previous test before this one. One of the cells did hit 2500mAh discharge. I think the charge was terminated too soon when the cells were charging.

Starting the test now. Have it on test mode this time. Currently testing all 4 Cells. Will post the results after the test is done.


Testing in Progress....

Note: I hope this test does not overcharge the cells as they are currently fully charged state.


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## Marduke (Oct 3, 2009)

It's highly unlikely the charger terminated early on -dV. It is much more likely the cells are just that underperforming.


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## MarioJP (Oct 3, 2009)

Marduke said:


> It's highly unlikely the charger terminated early on -dV. It is much more likely the cells are just that underperforming.



Though on the first initial charge did in fact terminated way too early. When i look at the amount of charge being put in. It only put 975mAh and display said "full"???. I had to pull the cell out and reinserted again. It only did that twice on the first charge cycle. Did that to all 4 cells too.

Second and third charge cycle did not happen again. Strange how it did that though


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## Marduke (Oct 3, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> Though on the first initial charge did in fact terminated way too early. When i look at the amount of charge being put in. It only put 975mAh and display said "full"???. I had to pull the cell out and reinserted again. It only did that twice on the first charge cycle. Did that to all 4 cells too.
> 
> Second and third charge cycle did not happen again. Strange how it did that though



First initial charge from what? The package? That doesn't tell you anything, as a partially discharge cell will not take a full charge.

High capacity cells are rather fragile, and forcing it to do overcharge can potentially cause permanent damage.


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## Mr Happy (Oct 3, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> Though on the first initial charge did in fact terminated way too early. When i look at the amount of charge being put in. It only put 975mAh and display said "full"???. I had to pull the cell out and reinserted again. It only did that twice on the first charge cycle. Did that to all 4 cells too.
> 
> Second and third charge cycle did not happen again. Strange how it did that though


Not as strange as you think. It is common for new cells to experience false termination on the first charges.


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## MarioJP (Oct 4, 2009)

Results are in!!. These results are much much better too! . *This is the charge that's coming out not in*.

Charger: La Crosse BC-9009 Model

Charging Method: Test Mode

Cell 1: 2660
Cell 2: 2662
Cell 3: 2660
*Cell 4: 2667* This cell in particular is interesting.

Sounds to me these cells just needed priming. Its getting close to 2700mAh capacity 

Going to try the test one more time and see what I get again. So far its looking good.

I knew something was not right when the charge was being terminated. Terminates too early. Looks like the false termination still left in these cells. Not severe, but still persists. Looks like the marketing label is not far from the truth.

Well these are the results from the test!


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## TakeTheActive (Oct 4, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells 'First Look'...*



VidPro said:


> performance results??? more like "first look"...


*+1* 

The thread is titled "Performance Results", but, IMHO, so far it's been "OP's Opinion With a Few Random Numbers Sprinkled In". 

It would make more sense and be easier to read / interpret if ALL of the parameters (Cell Type, Capacity, Charger Type, Mode, Charge Current, Discharge Current) were in one post.

*Example: *

```
La Crosse 700mAh AAA             |  #1    #2    #3    #4
---------------------------------+---------------------------

07/11/09 C9000 Cycle5:   500/ 100|  436   449   468   446 mAh
07/xx/09 C9000 Cycle4:   500/ 100|  436   446   459   443 mAh
07/xx/09 C9000 Cycle3:   500/ 100|  439   451   464   449 mAh 
07/xx/09 C9000 Cycle2:   500/ 100|  435   447   462   450 mAh
07/xx/09 C9000 Cycle1:   500/ 100|  440   452   468   452 mAh 
07/09/09 C9000 Impedance Check:  | 1.79  1.82  1.71  1.72 VDC
07/09/09 C9000 Discharge:  100   |    0     0     0   386 mAh
05/28/09 C9000 Break-In          |  420   433   446   432 mAh#
05/26/09 C9000 Discharge:  100   |  438   455   478   448 mAh
05/26/09 C9000 Impedance Check:  | 1.76  1.79  1.73  1.74 VDC
05/26/09 BC900 Discharge:  200   | +499  +495  +901  +536 mAh
05/25/09 BC900 Charge:  500      | +535  +539  +644  +541 mAh
03/01/09 C9000 Impedance Check:  | 1.80  1.77  1.67  1.71 VDC
01/29/09 BC900 Refresh:  500/ 250|  462   458   441   459 mAh
01/28/09 BC900 Discharge:  100   |  398   395   363   404 mAh
01/17/09 BC900 Refresh:  700/ 350|  487   480   468   482 mAh
01/15/09 C9000 Break-In          |  447   449   436   450 mAh#
[Bought: 12/22/06 - Intermittent use in various MP3 Players]
```
*NOTE: *'+' before a number indicates Charge INPUT


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## TakeTheActive (Oct 4, 2009)

Marduke said:


> ...The capacity reported at the end of the discharge cycle (discharge > charge) is the CHARGE capacity, NOT the DISCHARGE capacity. It shows how much energy went INTO the cell, not what came OUT OF the cell.
> 
> The TEST mode (charge > discharge > charge) will display the DISCHARGE, or true capacity...



IMO, part of the problem here is the lack of flexibility of the BC-900 as compared to the MH-C9000. The OP wants to Charge @ 1800mA. But the 1500mA and 1800mA Charge Modes don't allow any form of Discharge (i.e. DISCHARGE, REFRESH, TEST). So, he manually Charges @ 1800mA, then manually Discharges @ 500mA.

The lack of labels and the possibility for a Newbie to mistake BC-900 'Accumulated Capacity' (Charge/INPUT) with 'Discharge Capacity' (Discharge/OUTPUT) adds to the confusion.



Marduke said:


> ...It takes no more time than what you are doing since you need to start from charged anyhow. When you come home with discharge cells, put them on TEST at 1A/.5A, and they will be done by the next morning.


Well, it will take 'a little longer'...  (1000mA vs 1800mA)


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## TakeTheActive (Oct 4, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> ...*At the initial first charge cycle I actually had to keep an eye as for some reason the charger would terminate the charge too soon. This happened many times and was a bit frequent during the charging cycle. It would display "full" and I kept resetting the charger every time it did that. Until eventually voltage peaked at 1.48V-1.49V and that is when i stopped the charge...*


AFAICT, this was probably a BAD thing to do with brand new cells.


Bones said:


> ...*I believe the more important purpose of a break-in or 'forming' charge is to redistribute the electrolyte in the cell and properly saturate its separator membrane. Areas of the cell that are not properly saturated can be permanently damaged by higher rates of charge and discharge...*


*Reference: **Breaking in new batteries*


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## MarioJP (Oct 4, 2009)

I did discharge them before the initial charge though.

So you are saying that I should of not used the cells until after the break in?


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## MarioJP (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

Ok I just realized that this thread should be renamed to more like "Ansmann 2850 First Look Since I am looking how well these cells can do. Plus the performance of these cells will come in anyways as I am testing these cells.

Now that I have that settled lol.

Its been a month and a half so far with these cells and I just did another round test mode cycle in my la crosse charger.

All 4 cells were able to pump out 2700mah. These cells keeps getting better!! even after constant heavy usage they don't fail me. I think I am around 20 or more cycles or so. So far the advertisement is not far from the truth. They are very solid cells.

As for the discharge goes. They are still holding even after days sitting there. All 5 green led's lit after couple of days.

Only drawback about these cells is they do not like to be discharge I accidentally left them in discharge state. You be surprised how fast these cells needs priming if left in discharge state. I found that out when I was trying to charge them only to see the display of the charger displaying "full".

I had to do a one full cycle and that problem went away.

So what I have learned about these cells is they do not like to be unused or sitting there while in a discharge state.

But so far they cells still going. With that said I am going to retired my 2AA mobile charger and replace it with a 4AA that way I can still have the high capacity plus more VOLTS!. Plus my 2AA mobile charger was causing problems with my phone. Too much signal interference that I could not make a call during charging. All i get is "SOS" bah lol.

4AA mobile charger fixed that problem!!


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## 45/70 (Nov 1, 2009)

Did anybody ever figure out who makes these cells for Ansmann? Yuasa Delta?

Dave


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## MarioJP (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

Looks like these cells are made in Germany known as "Mignon" and as for the website

http://www.ansmann.us/home.html US

http://www.ansmann.de/cms/en.html German

there you go.

Germany are known to have good quality things. German cars now German batteries?

Even the wrapper of these cells are nicely wrapped and hard to damage.


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## Marduke (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*



MarioJP said:


> Looks like these cells were made in Germany known as "Mignon" and as for the website
> 
> http://www.ansmann.us/home.html US
> 
> ...



What does the wrapper say?


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## 45/70 (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*



MarioJP said:


> Looks like these cells are made in Germany known as "Mignon" and as for the website




Mignon is just the size of the cell, which is an AA. Seems I heard somewhere that the Ansmann's were Yuasa Delta's, but I don't remember.

Dave


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## MarioJP (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*



Marduke said:


> What does the wrapper say?



Made in PRC


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## Marduke (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*



MarioJP said:


> Made in PRC



That would be made in China, not Germany...


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## MarioJP (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

I am guessing the company is in Germany but the batteries are made in People's Republic of China??


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## firefly101 (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

yes "*P*eoples *R*epublic of *C*hina", though why they call it a republic is beyond me. lol Its also a designation for Military Radios, but I doubt thats the case for these batteries.

Sounds like these batteries are good quality but standard NiMh batteries. I've been turned off on buying anything from China when it comes to batteries, I'm tired of their false labelling and poor quality/performace.

But the Pirce of your Batteries are a little high, I looked around and they are $16 for a set of 4 you can get Eneloops for $3 so they are pretty overpriced if you ask me....

Though the High Capacity is a plus, but they sound a little picky if they are acting up in the charger, then it may be user error? If not then I would say the Batteries seem a little unstable to give that many problems while charging in a High quality charger like the BC900


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## MarioJP (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*



firefly101 said:


> yes "*P*eoples *R*epublic of *C*hina", though why
> 
> Though the High Capacity is a plus, but they sound a little picky if they are acting up in the charger, then it may be user error? If not then I would say the Batteries seem a little unstable to give that many problems while charging in a High quality charger like the BC900



Actually that problem got resolved. Haven't had that happen since then. I did not prime them properly out of the package because time was not on my side. More like Prime as you go lol.

Price is a little bit high but like you said the capacity is a plus lol. I do have 2 4pk of duraloops (white top) as a backup. But my primary set are these cells.


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## firefly101 (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

Well keep testing. But the price is a little high true?


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## MarioJP (Nov 2, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

Just a little considering at my local store wallgreens they were selling duraloops for 16 bucks!! now that's a rip off!!! First set of duraloops cost me 12 bucks and later went for the second set which i paid 16 bucks ouch!

Stay away from Safeway and Wallgreens when it comes to buying Batteries and chargers!!!


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## firefly101 (Nov 2, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

Buy on Ebay I got my Batteries for $14 for 8 Duraloops shipped.


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## MarioJP (Nov 2, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*



firefly101 said:


> Buy on Ebay I got my Batteries for $14 for 8 Duraloops shipped.



Don't have an account with them. I don't want to create anymore accounts for now think I am set lol.

And also I only have 1 set of these hi cap since they do not like to be unused. That's what the duraloops are for. I do like the fact that duraloops can be treated like primary batteries which is a ++. Its good to know that I have backup power when I am in a bind.

My duraloops are for "oh crap I forgot to charge my Ansmann cells and I don't have time to charge" lol.


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## Marduke (Nov 2, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

OT, but are your Duraloops MIJ? There were white top MIC.


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## MarioJP (Nov 2, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*



Marduke said:


> OT, but are your Duraloops MIJ? There were white top MIC.



My 2x4 Sets of white top Duraloops are MIJ Good thing i got the last 2 because I went back to the same place where I bought them. They are now carrying the black tops.

This is getting confusing


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## firefly101 (Nov 2, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

Keep testing these Batteries, it would be good to know what capacity they have after 50-100 cycles. Also have you tried them in a freezer? lol 

MIJ Duraloops are hard to find, shame you dont have an Ebay account its well worth it. When I first signed up I didnt have a need either until I started to find all these deals. Its the same with your first car, you really didnt have a need until you bought one then you can live without it. lol


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## MarioJP (Nov 2, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

I don't know if that's a good idea to put these cells in a freezer. What would be the benefit here?


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## firefly101 (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

it wont hurt them but you can see how they compare to the eneloops in the device. Like the review done by egsis


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## MarioJP (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

I suppose I can try. What would I be looking for If I put them in a freezer?


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## Bones (Nov 3, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*



MarioJP said:


> I suppose I can try. What would I be looking for If I put them in a freezer?



If you have flashlight with a fairly aggressive draw, you could freeze both Ansmann and Duraloop cells and then compare their respective run times directly out of the freezer.

Depending on where you are in the world, knowing which performs better in cold weather could be personally beneficial.


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## MarioJP (Nov 4, 2009)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

I live In California and I do not have a flashlight that draws alot of current. The only flashlight I have is a 2 LED flashlight which barely puts a drain on the 2 AA cells.


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## alfreddajero (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: Ansmann 2850 AA Cells First Look!*

How about doing another test with the cells to see what the capacity is now.


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## MarioJP (Jan 27, 2010)

TakeTheActive said:


> MH-C9000 'rests' (1 or 2 hours, depending on the FUNCTION) between the CHARGE stage and the DISCHARGE stage, which allows the 'Surface Charge' to 'bleed off', leaving you with the actual capacity available to your devices. Sure, if you take your cells "HOT off the Charger" and begin using them, you'll be able to take advantage of that extra ~5-10%. But, in an hour or so, it's lost.



Actually depending on usage and how much the device discharge rate that these cells are being used in can make a difference. When new you kind of have to break them in to obtain close to advertised capacity. Not talking right off the charger either. I had these cells sitting around for days to almost a week and was able to get discharge reading of 2625. One time all of the cells achieved 2700 after 3 days sitting.

The only downside to these cells is they can be fragile on HIGH DISCHARGE RATE which took me by surprise.

I say this because I use these cells in a mobile usb charger to charge my smartphone. When I upgraded from my blackberry curve to the new bold 9700. Before it was drawing about 800-900mAh on my curve.

the new bold. Boy did the discharge rate skyrocket. It is now drawing 1.8A continuous discharge rate.

I am finding out these cells can't handle at a discharge rate that high. And the side effects are showing big time. They now have develop high self discharge rate. Just 2 days sitting there 50% of its capacity is lost. Also the voltage under load is way too low that i am having difficult time charging my bold. In fact the batteries inside the usb mobile charger gets way too hot almost to 100F while charging my bold 9700.

To confirm this I decided to charge these cells up and do a 500ma discharge rate.

Voltage readings are not good. After 30-60min voltages on all four cells are reading below 1.2V one cell reads 1.15V. Another thing I noticed is the popping sounds of these cells are getting quite frequent when charging, even at a slow charging rate. And it started to happen more often the moment I started to charge my bold with these cells.

Conclusion. These ansmann 2850 are excellent for charging my blackberry curve 8310. But took a serious beating trying to charge my bold 9700. Surprised that my mobile usb charger handled the bold. Too bad the 4 cells in it did not survive the torture unfortunately.

I don't want to charge these cells anymore, as it keeps popping too much.

These cells are now ruined and was not cheap 







Tests after the torture after 3 days sitting there. All 4 cells report back 1800 but 1 out of 4 cells reports 1723. So this made me to believe that not only are the cells is losing retention, also the voltage output during discharge is getting lower and lower.

at 500mA discharge after 3 days sitting there Voltages on all 4 cells reads from 1.12v-1.05. One cell was at 1V from the start. and stays there until cell is nearing end of discharge and that's when the voltage further drops.

Keep in mind this is at 500mA discharge (since my Lacrosse is limited to 500mAh discharge rate). My USB mobile charger draws almost 4x more and that's quite a heavy drain especially when it has to be constant for an hour or 2.

So for future reference on how battery manufacture states "designed for high drain devices" wish it is stated a bit more realistic. Like for short burst drains I can understand that these cells can handle that.

But for a constant drain of 1.8A that's just too much.

I don't understand. Everything was fine until I got my bold. Now I am debating if I should recycle these cells as they are no longer reliable with a high self discharge. 


so the looks of this. Looks like NiMh does not like to be discharge at a high rate as the how many cycles can be recharged goes down with it by tenfold on a single high constant discharge cycle. Repeat this process 5-10 times they will become crap. This is far worst than overcharging.


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## Mr Happy (Jan 27, 2010)

Sorry about your cells. But as a general rule of thumb it goes like this:

Low capacity cells <=> High drain devices

High capacity cells <=> Low drain devices

For the highest draining devices like hot-wired lights or RC cars special cells of 1600 mAh capacity are used. For ordinary high drain devices like your USB charger, Eneloops would be satisfactory. 

High capacity cells of 2700 mAh are very fragile inside and must be treated with the utmost care. Even so, they can fail quite soon in spite of gentle use.


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## MarioJP (Jan 28, 2010)

I guess this is where the new Ni-Zn can come in handy. These cells can give a quite a punch without getting warm at all.

Though I do have 8pk of brand new duraloops that were only used couple of times but since been stored away.

I was not going to use these cells until situations like this happens. Interesting about my usb charger is that it uses 4AA cells but it is paired into 2. You could say that this usb charger has 2 dedicated charging circuit per pair. Its combo of series and parallel.


Series of 2x2=2x 3V in Parallel. This is my usb mobile charger

http://www.tekkeon.com/products-tekcharge1550.html


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## monkeyboy (Jan 28, 2010)

A little OT, but Ansmann also make "Ansmann racing" 2400mAh AA cells for high drain RC use. I wonder how those would compare?


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## PeAK (Jan 28, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> ....Interesting about my usb charger is that it uses 4AA cells but it is paired into 2. You could say that this usb charger has 2 dedicated charging circuit per pair. Its combo of series and parallel.
> 
> Earlier Quote:I say this because I use these cells in a mobile usb charger to charge my smartphone. When I upgraded from my blackberry curve to the new bold 9700. Before it was drawing about 800-900mAh on my curve.
> 
> The new bold. Boy did the discharge rate skyrocket. It is now drawing 1.8A continuous discharge rate. ​


I'm not sure what the Blackberry power/current draw is but the limit on a USB port is about 500mA or about 2.5 Watt. For your USB mobile charger to generate this same power output (i.e. 2.5W) from the batteries providing 1.8A it would require about 1.4V (2.5W/1.8A). That works out to 4 batteries wired in parallel for a capacity increase of 4x but at the same voltage as a single battery. This of course assume a 100% efficient voltage up-converter.

*Accounting for losses:*
If the USB mobile charger has losses (say 50%), then the same power output of 2.5 W could be achieved from a configuration consisting the 2 batteries wired in parallel (for capacity to), to form a pack, that is then wire in series with another pack to double the voltage and make up for the loss. Result is 5W draw from batteries for 2.5W out.

If I alter my assumption that a modern up-converter is nearlly 100% efficient, then the output would be 5W and the Blackerry 9700 would be consuming 1 amp and violating the USB port power spec...??? How did you measure the 1.8A battery consumption rate of your Mobile USB Charger ?


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## MarioJP (Jan 28, 2010)

Was kind of tricky to get a measurement on the cells but I was able too.

The 1.8A draw is from the cells themselves not the 5V usb. In the tech specs it says that the usb is pushing 5V at 800mA to the cellphone. Depending on type of phone. If a smartphone let say requires 700mA like what my blackberry AC adapter says 5V 700mA.


This mobile USB charger pushes 800mA to the phone. The AA cells are going to be working hard to not only maintain the booster at a 5v output but also at a constant 800mA too. The Up Voltage booster is really putting a heavy strain on the AA cells. Sometimes the booster would make a pitching noise but very faint.

In the specs it says you can use 2AA or 4AA. Would highly recommend to use all 4. Using only 2 cells is going to be brutal for them. Its already a heavy draw with 4 already, imagine only using 2AA lol.

The bold 9700 ruined my Ansmann cells. The draw was just too high lol. My old blackberry curve only needed 5v at 500mAh. In fact the mobile USB charger would not only top off the curve. I would still have leftover charge to spare on the ansmann cells for another round before I have to put them in the charger. Would have to discharge the remaining charge if I decide to charge the AA cells.

Bold in the other hand can't even top it off though close to fully charged. Cells in the charger are fully discharged. In fact I do not need to discharge the AA cells anymore before charging lol.


These up voltage boosters needs to be better of its efficiency and less strain on the AA cells. Should be a mobile charger with a quad booster that uses 8AA cells. That way each booster gets its own pair of cells. Then have all 4 boosters in parallel to avoid heavy strain on the poor AA cells. Eneloops would be perfect for this task. As it stand this mobile charger has 2 boosters. Great concept but need more boosters.


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## tinydancer (Mar 23, 2010)

I know this is an older thread, but I have been researching rechargeable AA batteries in expectation of purchasing a new digital camera for a trip to Africa.

I have been looking at these Ansmann 2850.

Then someone in a camera shop suggested that Ansmann got the technology from Sanyo and recommended that I get eneloop batteries instead.

I want to get two sets and a charger to take to Africa and depend on.

Do you now have any further opinions on these batteries, and what would you recommend getting? 

I'd use them in the new Fuji FinePix HS-10.


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## Egsise (Mar 23, 2010)

Any LSD batteries will do, stay away from batteries that are over 2100mAh.
Any LSD batteries are good in normal use, just get what are the cheapest and easiest to get.

LSD batteries that are known to be ok:
RayOVAC Hybrid
Sanyo Eneloop
GP ReCYko+
Panasonic Infinium

Rebranded LSD:
Duracell Precharged
Kodak Precharged
Sony Cycle Energy Blue(green is not LSD)
Ansmann max-e(golden e, green e is not LSD)
GSYuasa Enitime
Varta Ready2Go


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## tinydancer (Mar 23, 2010)

thank you!

Don't think I'm dumb (although I am finding this topic very over my head!) I guess that I should stay away from these?:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._5035092_AA_2850mAh_Rechargeable.html#reviews


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## McAllan (Mar 23, 2010)

Add Uniross Hybrio to the rebranded ones. At least some of them. Have some 1 or 2 years old which are exactly eneloops except the wrapping. But have read of other who have gotten some other cells. Without positively knowing it I could suspect those to be GP cells as I'm almost sure Uniross have re-branded GP cells in the past.

I believe most of the LSD cells are fine. As long as they in fact are LSD types. Not something counterfeit false or totally unknown cheaply off eBay.

I have a pair of Ansmann AAA LSD on the way. Looking forward to see how they perform. But wouldn't surprise me if they're just fine at or almost on par with eneloops and recykos. They were at least cheaper than the "original" ones. Usually their camera batteries are pretty good in contrast to the cheaper ones no name ones.

Also saw that Ansmann has come out with 2500 mAh AA LSD. For a minute I thought about trying those and replacing some of my worn (although not dead) cells with those but didn't. Would have been interesting to see how they performed because all other manufacturers (which I know of) only rates them 2000 or 2100 mAh depending on their rating policy so in fact they're most pretty much comparable.


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## Egsise (Mar 23, 2010)

Actually Ansmann 2500 max-e is not the same as Ansmann 2000mAh max-e, there is a difference in the label color so i would guess that the chemistry is not the same.
LSD? Not likely.


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## McAllan (Mar 23, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Actually Ansmann 2500 max-e is not the same as Ansmann 2000mAh max-e, there is a difference in the label color so i would guess that the chemistry is not the same.



The color of the label decides the chemistry
However I recall that the difference between ordinary NiMH and the LSD types are not the chemistry but the separator between the plates.



Egsise said:


> LSD? Not likely.



Oh yes as your own pictures are about to show 



Egsise said:


>



"_Forgeladener Akku!_" -> Precharged accu.
"_Nach jeder Ladung über 1 Jahr einsetzbereit_" -> After each charge ready to use after 1 year.



Egsise said:


>


"Vorgeladen" -> Precharged
It even says "more than 1 year standby" in English :thumbsup:


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## McAllan (Mar 23, 2010)

Btw. If interested - have a look at the Ansmann website to see for yourself.


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## MarioJP (Mar 23, 2010)

So why now are we seeing LSD cells at 2500mAH. I thought these cells can't go higher than 2000mAh. Are these in fact LSD cells?. How well do they perform?


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## McAllan (Mar 23, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> So why now are we seeing LSD cells at 2500mAH. I thought these cells can't go higher than 2000mAh. Are these in fact LSD cells?. How well do they perform?



Yes they are LSD according to manufacturer. How well they perform I don't know. Was about to try some but didn't feel like spending unnecessary money at the moment.

Btw. Seems like lower capacities have got a new label more like the higher capacity ones.

Perhaps they do have a bit higher self discharge than the ~2 Ah ones. But if they can sit unused on a shelf for 1 year and still have even half the capacity left they're still LSD. Ordinary NiMH would be not just about empty but totally empty and needing exercise/break in to gain capacity too.

Can't find what they state charge maintainability to be but should surprise me if they're lower than 70-75 % after one year. Although I do not expect them to be quite up to the normally 80 %.


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## Egsise (Mar 23, 2010)

McAllan said:


> The color of the label decides the chemistry
> However I recall that the difference between ordinary NiMH and the LSD types are not the chemistry but the separator between the plates.
> "Vorgeladen" -> Precharged
> It even says "more than 1 year standby" in English :thumbsup:


No the color of the label does not mean that the chemistry is different, that was my personal guess.
If Sanyo would suddenly change the wrapper and capacity of Eneloops, would we think it is still the same high performing Eneloop that we all know? 



McAllan said:


> Yes they are LSD according to manufacturer. How well they perform I don't know. Was about to try some but didn't feel like spending unnecessary money at the moment.
> 
> Btw. Seems like lower capacities have got a new label more like the higher capacity ones.
> 
> ...


50% charge after year is still LSD, now thats just cheating?
Why don't you buy some Ansmann 2850mAh AA's, do some tests and decide how trustworthy Ansmann marketing claims are.
Or you can save your money and read this thread from the beginning. 

Oh and Ansmann does not have a LSD cell manufacturing facility, I guess they use cells manufactured by GSYuasa.
And that is again just my guess based on performance comparison and similarities on size, positive and negative ends between GSYuasa Enitime and Ansmann max-e.
Check the test in my signature.


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## vali (Mar 23, 2010)

I got some AAA LSD cells claiming 900 mAh from another brand. Guess what? they deliver 750 mAh without big differences between charges or samples.

Seems to me the marketing guys are fooling people again.


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## McAllan (Mar 23, 2010)

Egsise said:


> If Sanyo would suddenly change the wrapper and capacity of Eneloops, would we think it is still the same high performing Eneloop that we all know?



Of course they will change the wrapper if they too come out with a higher capacity to differentiate it. For some time they will continue to market the older type.
Also it is permitted to update their design. Nothing in this world is static 



Egsise said:


> 50% charge after year is still LSD, now thats just cheating?



Depends on your view. This was just some guesses and speculations from my side. But as I said even though would be way better than non LSD types.



Egsise said:


> Why don't you buy some Ansmann 2850mAh AA's, do some tests and decide how trustworthy Ansmann marketing claims are.
> Or you can save your money and read this thread from the beginning.



It doesn't matter whether what company states that 2850 mAh capacity. That can only be reached when cells are new and under certain conditions. No matter if it is Uniross, GP, Panasonic or Sanyo or whatever with the current technology.



Egsise said:


> Oh and Ansmann does not have a LSD cell manufacturing facility, I guess they use cells manufactured by GSYuasa.
> And that is again just my guess based on performance comparison and similarities on size, positive and negative ends between GSYuasa Enitime and Ansmann max-e.
> Check the test in my signature.



And so? Neither do many of the other battery companies and some only manufacture some of their cells. Could also look a bit like GP. If done on only one or two cell of each that could just be minor variances so we would no know for sure. Fine with me - I don't use my lights in -22 C 
Besides Ansmann is like Uniross. They buy the cells from others and not necessarily from the same manufacturer(s) all the time. Is it a bad thing?
Lets take Uniross as an example again. My version of their Hybrios look and perform just like Eneloops except their wrapping. However some cells I've got from them before (ordinary NiMH) looked just like GP. They were labelled 1300 mAh but most of them reached 1500 mAh(!) without trouble on the Conrad Charge Manager 2010 (previous version of Voltcraft Charge Manager). Even after 6-8 years (I don't remember now) when I throwed them out in favor of 2 Ah LSD types they were still able to corner the 1300 mAh mark. And they were cheap too. That's an example of some cells that have impressed me.

Wouldn't surprise me if maxE+ only make 2400 mAh on the Charge Manager (or C9000 at the other side of the Atlantic - although I have a C9000 also but I do consider the CM to be a tad better). But 2.4 Ah imho would be nice anyway. As long as their charge retention is still near of those of lower capacities. Even with ordinary NiMH those with lower capacities hold their charge better - no magic here. The 1300 mAh did hold their charge way better than some 2300 og 2700 mAh types I also have. Or my 7 Ah D size. Not much capacity compared by todays standard but self discharge isn't too bad. Have thought of replacing them with 8-9 Ah LSD types though of pure convenience.


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## Bones (Mar 23, 2010)

Something to keep in mind when considering whether to purchase higher-capacity NiMH cells in lieu of the lower capacity, low self-discharge variety:

Energizer, the owners of the best selling brand of NiMH cells in the world, decided to drop their 2500mAh cell in favor of a 2450mAh version, and then decided to drop it in favor of the 2300mAh regular-chemistry cell which they're currently marketing as their flagship rechargeable.

Considering their typical in-store pricing, I don't think these decisions were driven by cost...


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## Egsise (Mar 24, 2010)

McAllan said:


> And so? Neither do many of the other battery companies and some only manufacture some of their cells. Could also look a bit like GP. If done on only one or two cell of each that could just be minor variances so we would no know for sure. Fine with me - I don't use my lights in -22 C


Well if there would be 2500mAh LSD cells Ansmann would not be the only one selling them, doh.

There's variance on the cells?
On performance perhaps, but physically the cells look a lot like each other, even in -22°C.


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## McAllan (Mar 24, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Well if there would be 2500mAh LSD cells Ansmann would not be the only one selling them, doh.



Why don't you at least do a little "Googeling" before you come out with such statement




Then you'd end up with this one pretty easily.
Seems like it is probably a GS Yuasa. I don't know their NiMH but their SLA are fine. If you're so wise you could probably direct me to a test which shows long term stability/reliability of the GS Yuasa cells? And you'll probably argue about the inferior performance at -22 C. As said I and probably many other will never use our lights in -22 C (-7.6 F) and as such extreme low temperature performance does rank very low compared to other factors.

Just for reference. Here's the 2500 mAh LSD Ansmann from a distibutor I believe at least previously had a high recommendation here (or was in on steves digicams?)
Anyway click here.


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## Egsise (Mar 24, 2010)

Ansmann max-e or GSYuasa Enitime, same product so what?
The problem is, GSYuasa is not very well known for their AA LSD cells, either is Ansmann, finding long term results might be difficult.
And because both are not well known, or sold as cheap or widely as RayOVac Hybrids or Sanyo Eneloops why even bother to test them..

I understand that -22°C is rare for most people.
Maybe you want to test in which temperature the different brand cells start to show differences?
It could be just 0°C so it would be nice to know....average temperature in Denmark from december to march is only around +2°C right?

Or just buy the Eneloops or Hybrids that perform well also at cold, the price is the same as with the other brands so why bother gambling?

I prefer to buy cells from http://eu.nkon.nl/ or http://batterycity.eu/ easier and faster than from overseas.


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## McAllan (Mar 24, 2010)

Egsise said:


> I prefer to buy cells from http://eu.nkon.nl/ or http://batterycity.eu/ easier and faster than from overseas.



BatteryCity is also my preferred battery dealer as they have a large selection and good prices for many cell sizes. Although I prefer using their danish site. It was there I first saw the Ansmann 2500 mAh LSD.

Thanks for the nkon link. I might order something from there sometime. I don't order much overseas either. Too expensive when everything is calculated. Not so much of shipping in many cases but also because of tax & duty (mostly not worth mention duty as it's very small in most cases) but also because of the "tax & duty calculation"-fee to the carrier. If not the national postal service (USPS in USA, PostDanmark in Denmark and so on) the fee can be quite prohibitive - the national postal's fee is expensive enough as it is. And then many companies tends to only ship with UPS or FexEx - means a very heavy "tax & duty calculation"-fee. Tax and duty and fees can easily be as much as the item and shipping itself :sigh:


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## vali (Mar 24, 2010)

Egsise said:


> And because both are not well known, or sold as cheap or widely as RayOVac Hybrids or Sanyo Eneloops why even bother to test them..



I did! Or more correctly, I am doing! Check my sig.

The ones I am testing are AAA and are advertised as 750 mAh. With a C9000 I got around 750 mAh in all of them. So, for those cells, the claimed capacity is correct.

Are the capacity of the 2500 cells 2500 mAh? I dont know. I can think of 3 different options:

- Around 2100 mAh like the highest capacity LSD cells available from other brands, but claiming a false and overestimated capacity.

- A "new type" of NiMH that have higher self discharge to get more capacity. But according my test Yuasa's LSD already self discharge faster than other brands...

- Real 2500 mAh LSD, which I really doubt about it (but it is a possibility).


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