# Why Led Lenser's flashlight so bad?



## MT7 (Feb 14, 2012)

hello,
I bought the Led Lenser MT7 two weeks ago,and It's one of the best flashlights I ever had,but I saw in the forum that Led Lenser's flashlights are bad flashlights.
Why are you think that Led Lenser flashlight so bad? they have many functions as strobe,SOS,boost and blink-even most of the surefire flashlights haven't strobe mode.Led Lenser's flashlights need only few cheap aa batteries,not like the 123A that costs a lot of money,and the advanced focus system of led lenser is awesome.
So why a lots of people hates Led Lenser?
and another question,about Maglite ML100 or Maglite xl200.are they good flashlights?
Thanks in advance - =....


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## amaretto (Feb 14, 2012)

too expensive and old fashioned tecs. No regulation = dimmer with used cells


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## shane45_1911 (Feb 14, 2012)

...and to many of us, a strobe mode is not a desired feature.

Welcome to the forum. Spend some time reading and reading and reading, and you will soon see that there are many things better than Led Lenser and (un-modified) Maglites.


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## AnAppleSnail (Feb 14, 2012)

They aren't bad, but their specs are deceptive, and the build quality is often disappointing. Further, there are inherent problems with 3xAA/AAA carriers (Cells scraping and grounding to the body tube) that lead to problems like suddenly-dead cells in the light. They are among the better lights in most brick-and-mortar stores, but there is about a 30% premium on them (I could buy a light of similar quality, output, and durability for 30% less).

Their lumen/runtime specs are usually direct-drive, which means "100 lumens for 20 hours" means "100 lumens, then 90 lumens after 1 minute, then 80 after 2, then 70 after 10..." And I don't like the beam pattern of their focusing light. Give me an all-round beam most any day, and an aspheric thrower that is properly focused. Moving a TIR away from an LED makes ugly output, and the slidey focus things don't like water much.


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## tsask (Feb 14, 2012)

OK I'll give credit where credit is due. Lens Lenser was one of the first LED lights to be featured in brick and mortar stores with attractive packaging.
That is where it ends. unrealiable performance. MANY MUCH better lights out there not found at homedeepeo etc. I would not buy one unless as a novelty like green and white LED combo.


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## jayflash (Feb 14, 2012)

There may be exceptions, but most of their models aren't good values. However, if you can get one cheaply ... They make some novelty lights, which I have. The smallest pen light I've ever seen is a Led Lenser which uses two, tiny, 50mAh, 3 volt, pin cells. Batteries Plus carried them. Very Small! Still, I've had "switch" trouble with both of mine and they'd light without the end cap switch on the light!


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## Cataract (Feb 14, 2012)

I believe Led Lensers have acquired a bad reputation in part because they used to be associated with Coast, which are cheap flashlights and usually priced accordingly. Led Lensers are made in Germany (could account for higher than average market price) and in my opinion they are very good lights. Their regulation circuit is not as good as other brands, though, and they will sooner rather than later start to slowly dim, but the ones I have do seem to keep a good output for a reasonnable amount of time (sorry, no numbers at present). This does not make them bad lights and they are well constructed, but some people don't like the fact that the head is plastic.

Now that my CPF reputation has gone down by 90% I'll shut up...


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## yliu (Feb 14, 2012)

They are overpriced. For the same price, you can get a higher quality light with newer led chips.

I also had a bad experience with their light, I dropped a P7 from about 1 meter, and it stopped working. Furthermore, their lights still use the Cree XRE chips, while many other brands switched to XPG and XML chips.


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## yellow (Feb 14, 2012)

as most have typed:
price and value do not get together.

Except for this they are ok - and for lights _offered in retail shops_, they are quite good
(nearly all the better lights have to be ordered online)


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## AnAppleSnail (Feb 14, 2012)

I REALLY like their non-flood-to-throw lights. Mine have survived impressive abuse. The sliding/twisting mechanism can be easily compromised. For all that, though, they turn on brightly, let you see what they're pointed at, and often survive abuse. (Nearly) All brands have "I dropped it just a bit and it broke" stories.


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## TEEJ (Feb 14, 2012)

I really like the T7 with the sliding head, and I like the beam from wide to spot focus by sliding the head. Mines take a lot of abuse over the years, and never failed, despite drops, etc. I really only stopped carrying it due to it just being too dim for a lot of what I do, ESPECIALLY as it got dimmer and dimmer in use....but I leave it in a tool box as a spare, and because the flood beam is good for some of the photography I do during certain types of inspection, such as for soft side-lighting techniques to high light fine structural/textural features, etc.



The Klarus XT11 was only a little more $, but kicks the poor T7's *** in performance.


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## artar (Feb 14, 2012)

Cataract said:


> I believe Led Lensers have acquired a bad reputation in part because they used to be associated with Coast, which are cheap flashlights and usually priced accordingly. Led Lensers are made in Germany (could account for higher than average market price) and in my opinion they are very good lights. Their regulation circuit is not as good as other brands, though, and they will sooner rather than later start to slowly dim, but the ones I have do seem to keep a good output for a reasonnable amount of time (sorry, no numbers at present). This does not make them bad lights and they are well constructed, but some people don't like the fact that the head is plastic.
> 
> Now that my CPF reputation has gone down by 90% I'll shut up...



LED Lenser is a german company, but the flashlights are made in China. you can read that on their website.


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## joe1512 (Feb 14, 2012)

I hate them because they seem to hold patents on flood to throw. Thus the only ones I can get are either stupidly expensive (lens light's 400 dollar one comes to mind), rare (wolf eyes night hunter), or cheap knockoffs (the FLOOD of 10 dollar ones on ebay...seriously...look up zoomable led flashlight)


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## Cataract (Feb 14, 2012)

artar said:


> LED Lenser is a german company, but the flashlights are made in China. you can read that on their website.



I stand corrected


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## alpg88 (Feb 14, 2012)

too expencive for what they are.


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## alpg88 (Feb 14, 2012)

too expencive for what they are.


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## mcnair55 (Feb 14, 2012)

They are the darlings of the retail stores,slick marketing with cabinets with revolving turntables,they have "buy me" written all over them complete with a niffy box and usually an extra or so.

After saying that:-

All the above comments from the other members come to mind.


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## betweenrides (Feb 14, 2012)

mcnair55 said:


> They are the darlings of the retail stores,slick marketing with cabinets with revolving turntables,they have "buy me" written all over them complete with a niffy box and usually an extra or so.
> 
> After saying that:-
> 
> All the above comments from the other members come to mind.



Must be a UK thing... Don't see them that often at retail in the midwest U.S., maybe on sale at the big box DIY stores, usually on sale around Christmas. Or maybe I just don't notice them.


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## Derek Dean (Feb 14, 2012)

Howdy MT7, and welcome to CPF!
Some very fine questions, let me see if I can help give you some thoughts from our perspective.



MT7 said:


> hello,
> I bought the Led Lenser MT7 two weeks ago,and It's one of the best flashlights I ever had


Most folks have never experienced a good LED light, so when they get their first reasonably good LED light they are amazed, I know I was. 



MT7 said:


> they have many functions as strobe,SOS,boost and blink-even most of the surefire flashlights haven't strobe mode


While SOS and blinky type functions seem cool at first, think about how often you'll actually use them. Depending on how they are incorporated in the UI (user interface) they can actually be a distraction. Imagine every time you use your light having to scroll through the SOS and other blinky modes just to change from high to low light levels...... arrrrgh. Manufacturers like Surefire focus their efforts towards building bullet proof lights rather than providing features that will rarely, if ever, be used.



MT7 said:


> Led Lenser's flashlights need only few cheap aa batteries,not like the 123A that costs a lot of money


First of all, those "cheap" AA alkaline batteries can leak corrosive chemicals into your nice new light, which is one reason most CPF members avoid them. We prefer to use rechargeable cells which for the most part won't leak and ruin our lights, and also allow us to always go out fully charged. 

Also, the higher voltage CR123 (and similar) batteries allow us to have small lights that will run very bright for longer periods of time than cheap AA alkaline cells. 

If you spend some time here you'll find that there are some lights that can run on both, giving us the best of both worlds, a light that can run very bright on a small high voltage cell, but that can also run at a lower brightness level on a common AA alkaline cell if ever needed.



MT7 said:


> and the advanced focus system of led lenser is awesome


Many CPF members feel that most built in focus systems tend to compromise the beam quality in order to provide both flood and spot. They feel you get a better quality flood beam with a light dedicated for that, and a much better spot beam with a light dedicated for that. It's really a matter of personal preference. 



MT7 said:


> So why a lots of people hates Led Lenser?


It's not a matter of "hating" LED Lenser lights, but this is a forum dedicated to flashlights, so of course we discuss every light's strengths and weaknesses as well as their value compared to other available lights. 

So, enjoy your fine new light. I'm sure it will serve your needs well, and while you're enjoying it please feel free to continue visiting CPF. If you're like most folks who visit here, the LED Lenser MT7 won't be the last light you buy .


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## kts (Feb 14, 2012)

I own a P5 and a P7, I like them for their throw and compact size, I cant find another light in that size that wil throw as far.

And I will bet that most people bashing in this thread has never owned a Ledlenser light, but they have read here on CPF in every thread about Ledlenser that they suck, so it must be true...

But please show me a 1AA light that will outthrow a P5, I need it.

I agree that there are better built lights out there, but they are pretty good compared to many other lights, theyre are at least as good quality as Maglites best models.


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## LiteTheWay (Feb 14, 2012)

I own a couple of LED Lensers and don't think they are as bad as some say. But they are overpriced for what they are and the lack of regulation is a pain.


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## RaceR86 (Feb 15, 2012)

LedLenser are not bad. They do make great products! 

Some benefits of Led Lensers:
- A nice zoom system!
- "Waterproof" combined with the zoom system
- Reliable quality products. (yes, you might hear a bad story, but most brands with a high amount of sale have those stories)
- A big company that you can thrust, and with lifetime warranty!
- They use batteries that are available everywhere and are much safer for the average consumer compared to li-ion.

Led Lenser got me into flashlights. Or, a buddy of mine bought L7. Light output and zoom feature was amazing compared to what I had i my maglites! (I had no clue about LEDs then). He then bought X21R!! IT WAS AWESOME!! IT STILL IS!!  I had to get a decent flashlight after seeing that in use! It was likehaving the SUN (with white light) in his backpack. But I did not want a super expensive and HUGE flashlight.
Used google and got very into Led Lensers product line. Highly considered to buy the P7/T7 after reading great stuff about it!
But also checked out forums, other brands and really cheap lights that claimed super high output. Learned about emitters and different batteries solutions. It really is a whole world out there of flashlights. 

I have bought a couple of inexpensive smaller lights after doing some research. Might get some decent flashlights too,but will find out my needs by reading and testing some cheaper lights first. I will probably go for other brands than Led Lenser after seeing what new emitters, others UIs, other manufacturers and, other batterysystem can do. I have already learned I am no fan of the typical 5 modes you have to go trough on one button after having it on a light. 
I would recommend a Led Lenser to a friend wanting a zoom system on a decent flashlight. But I would also recommend him a zebralight sc51(w), some of Klaurus AAs models as quality alternatives with other features that might be valued more. 

DerekDean explained some of the down sides with Led Lensers in a previouspost, or peoples view on it. I will not disagree, and I could even add more towards the "negative" sides..
But Led Lensers are great for some guy only wanting a decent reliable flashlight. Seriously they are good! I have read tests in "wild life/nature"magazines with great results. "Best in test" over many other lights. Good reviews on the internet. Just look at user reviews on amazon. People love them! Great stuff!
MT7 is an awesome light btw! 16/16 people gave it 5 stars on Amazon. How can people say they are bad? Makes no sence...

But this is a forum for "special enthusiasts" (not stating Led Lenser buyers are not!). People here have high demands. Most people here own several flashlights for different use.etc, etc.. Many people here use Li-Ion batteries for better performance. Means you can get super performance in a smaller and lighter package compared to a typical small AA/AAA battery light (like most popular Led Lensers are)
Look at Zebralight SC600 for example compared to the typical P7/T7 and simular Led Lensers. SC600 is smaller, lighter, much brighter,but could have less light when you want. Great UI. Great quality, and great overall performance and use of battery capacity. You could get it with warmer (neutral) tint if you want. And using a quality18650 will get near three times as much mAh compared to say 3x rechargeable AAA 900mAH. 
When getting seriously into flashlights you will see that there are other products out there that offers more for a certain use, are a better overall package compared to Led Lenser products. But for people wanting a good flow to throw, Led Lensers are good stuff!
I would recommend Led Lensers to "normal people". Especially if they wanted the zoom feature. I love that feature. But I would not buy them myself at the moment. And for people that are enough interested in flashlights to see a forum, I would also recommend them to check out other products since they may offer features that might be better for them.


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## Kilted (Feb 15, 2012)

Deleted


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## DM51 (Feb 15, 2012)

Kilted said:


> I was not even going to answer


It would have been better if you had refrained; yours is the only truly objectionable post in this thread so far.

You've been a member long enough to know that calling other members "under-educated", "irrational" and "childish", and telling them to "stop bitching" and "get a life", is not acceptable behavior on this forum.

Furthermore, if you think you can make a rude and abusive post and then excuse yourself with an insincere disclaimer like "Sorry if I came off a bit hard", you need to think again.

Please edit your post immediately to remove the offensive comments. If I have to return here to do it for you, you will incur a suspension.


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## LEDburn (Feb 15, 2012)

kts said:


> I own a P5 and a P7, I like them for their throw and compact size, I cant find another light in that size that wil throw as far.
> 
> And I will bet that most people bashing in this thread has never owned a Ledlenser light, but they have read here on CPF in every thread about Ledlenser that they suck, so it must be true...
> 
> ...



A few years ago i went camping with some friends and all I had was a 2xAA mini mag and up until that point a 6D mag would probably have been the best thing I had ever seen in use. Anyway, a mate had a P5 and the first time I saw it on I was blown away. I went and got one the next day. Fast forward a few months and I decide to buy the P7 - what a disappointment! Partly to my ignorance, I expected the more than double in (claimed) lumens to equal more tham double the performance. 

Them after a few internet searches and I found myself here...

After a week or so of mad research I had a Fenix LD10 on the way..again I was simply blown away. I didn't have a problem with the focus system of the LL but when you realise you can have flood AND throw at thr same time you start to thing about the big picture. Build quality, output, runtime, modes etc. all start coming into play.


Currently my favourite light (yes, I have over 10 now) is my recently acquired 4sevens Quark Turbo X neutral white. It absolutely trashes any led lenser for equivalent or double the price!!!

It's not much longer than the P5 bit it runs on CR123, RCR123 cells or in my case 17670 rechargeable lithium-ion cells. If you dont like or dont want to use li-ion cells then another option is the regular Quark Turbo (4sevens offer a number of emitter options this one is different to Quark X which cannot be powered by 1AA) with a 1AA body tube but if you like you can just screw on the 2AA tube for extra performance and runtime. As it is, on 1AA this will still smash the P5. Yes, the P5 MIGHT throw a TINY bit further..but no, you probably WILL NOT pick up that P5 again though...


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## kicker9898 (Feb 15, 2012)

I like mine, they were free samples though.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Feb 15, 2012)

kts said:


> But please show me a 1AA light that will outthrow a P5, I need it.


sk68 on a 14500 maybe? All for £4.90 delivered too (minus battery).


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## Kilted (Feb 15, 2012)

DM51 said:


> It would have been better if you had refrained; yours is the only truly objectionable post in this thread so far.
> 
> You've been a member long enough to know that calling other members "under-educated", "irrational" and "childish", and telling them to "stop bitching" and "get a life", is not acceptable behavior on this forum.
> 
> ...



Sorry, no excuses. =D~~ Kilted


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## CarpentryHero (Feb 15, 2012)

The Coast Led Lensors are sold in HomeDepots here in Alberta Canada.
I've never bought one, because the affordable ones arent bright enough, and the pricy ones don't look worth the money.
Fenix, Quark, Streamlight and Pelican are available locally so I've never pulled the trigger on getting one.
If they were more affordable like Dorcy and Garrity I'd have bough one in the past, but I don't buy the cheapies anymore


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## kzb (Feb 15, 2012)

I actually like the focussing feature on Led Lensers, also the clear white light. It's also worth noting that the lack of regulation can be mitigated by using NiMH batteries, which have a much flatter discharge curve than alkalines. But please don't say I recommended this, because LL themselves say rechargeables are not recommended in most of their lights. But I've done it and the lights are still running.


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## kts (Feb 15, 2012)

> As it is, on 1AA this will still smash the P5. Yes, the P5 MIGHT throw a TINY bit further..but no, you probably WILL NOT pick up that P5 again though...



It will smash the P5, but the P5 will throw longer  

I have more than 10 Fenix lights , its not like Ledlensers are my only light :naughty:


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## mcnair55 (Feb 15, 2012)

betweenrides said:


> Must be a UK thing... Don't see them that often at retail in the midwest U.S., maybe on sale at the big box DIY stores, usually on sale around Christmas. Or maybe I just don't notice them.



Yes very much a UK and German thing,they are sold by many trade stores.Arco the protective clothing people in the Uk must sell a fair view as when new starters go in to get kitted out with safety gear they always seem to wangle a torch off the person who has taken them there.


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## trevordurden (Dec 3, 2012)

After getting a K1 in a kit with a leatherman Style CS, I learned that the beam is what bothers me the most. It's not just one company though, it seems like just laws of physics that a disadvantage to using optics is that the beam won't be as clean. The purple-ish tint and rings in beam almost give me a headache after extended use.


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## eh4 (Dec 3, 2012)

In my opinion they are resting on their zoom able optic patent, charging a premium for it and not doing much else.
To be honest I'm still a little bitter that I spent nearly 60$ on their P7 or whatever it was only to find out later how much better of lights I could have spent the money on, I just didn't know any better, it was the brightest one on display, and the optic was cool... But wait, it takes Four AAA batteries!?! Two levels, seemingly no regulation?!?
Give me a break, 
I could have had a Zebra Light, or a couple Quarks, or...


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## StorminMatt (Dec 4, 2012)

One area where Coast actually DOES seem to offer a good deal is with XM-L lights that DON'T run on Li-Ion batteries. If you want an XM-L light that can run on NiMH, the pickings are admittedly quite slim. But Coast seems to offer a couple of pretty good bargains here. First is the HP550, sold at Costco. This light produces 1000 lumens from an XM-L using 9AA batteries. It sells for $49. The closest competition is the 860 lumen Fenix TK41 (which uses 8AA batteries). I don't have one to compare to the HP550 I picked up. But youtube videos show that the HP550 is VERY visibly brighter than the similar 800 lumen TK60. So it would appear that the 1000 lumen rating is pretty honest. Of course, I'm not sure how the HP550 compares to the TK41 in terms of quality. But if you want a bright light on the cheap and don't want to mess with Li-Ion, the HP550 is simply an unbeatable deal.

Then there's the HP17. It has a somewhat lower output of 615 lumens from 3 D batteries. This is somewhat lower than the aforementioned Fenix TK60 (which uses 4 D batteries). And it's more expensive than the HP550 (at least for the time being). But it still goes for $40-$50 less than the TK60. Again, I can't say it's a better light than the TK60. But it is most certainly quite a bit less expensive if you want a bright, XM-L light that runs on D batteries.


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## mojocvh (Dec 4, 2012)

Interesting thread thanks to all who have contributed so far..... I am a wind turbine tech who works at some remote sites in Scottish Highlands. I have had a number of the small LED Lensers over the last 10 yrs or so, they all were OK and did what they said but ultimately lacked both the performance of the smaller Fenix's and were "bulky" in comparison. Basically they had fallen behind the stampede.

My present lights are the PD 30 and MC10 as backup. 

I like having my torches basically because when I was new to the industry I had to self escape from a lift stuck some 200 odd feet up the inside of a blacked out tower, my company issue headlight gave up the ghost about halfway through the lift/ladder transfer..........



OK. So why am I presently looking at the LED Lenser X7R rechargeable as my backpack carry? I believe that [in this Lithium-ion incarnation] that LED Lenser have got it right not only the distance throw but a superb even flood [for searching for those elusive bits we ALWAYS drop when it's dark]

I realise that this post may, as a newb, lead to a storm of criticism but at least make it constructive LOL.

all the best

Mo.


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## Slazmo (Mar 28, 2013)

The way that I look at it is that my MT7 cost me a fraction under $40 from Amazon and was delivered from a authorised stockist and was confirmed as real from Led Lenser Aust - (so managed to wangle out of paying $120 extra on that price) off the list price here in Aus. So far so good - true that the Led Lenser is far superior to my Maglites and even my newer 2AA LED Mag - but there are a few issues that I contend with when I use it. I feel that the LL is far less a tool in comparison to a Mag and far less stable with being dropped or immersed into water or dusty environments and or taken into the wild around Aus - the adjustment and locking mechanism is fragile and will need protection and cleaning if abused, and I doubt that they will deal with humidity and sand like a Mag will.

Another thing is that they chew batteries like crazy - I have 'just' invested in a Eneloop charger and a 6pack of AAA's for it (LL confirmed that Eneloops can be used in them and will not affect warranty) - and going to see how that works out in the long run! No doubt that LL is a player in the mass produced and known market in relation to the other brands available - I know they're popular due to how many are stolen from my workplace!

So at the moment my Inova X1 doesnt leave my side as my daily EDC, my 2AA LED, or 2D LED drop in Mag(s) as my trusty outdoors camping / fishing torch and the LL MT7 & (K3 which lives on my BOB) are rarely used but are on constant standby unless I need power to **** off a neighbour or disorientate their dog with the 50Hz strobe, otherwise they're toys and I always remember that - but they're just something that I like to play with every now and again.

No doubt I will dabble into the professional torches when the time and $$$ come around - however not into CR123's and all that here in Aus due to cost and availability!


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## warmurf (Mar 28, 2013)

Man, get into some Nitecore and Fenix, or Eagletac,Jetbeam. These lights (and others) transcend ye old Mags, LLs and Inovas. Even cheap Solarforces are in anotherclass. Shout yourself one.
 
I have a couple of LL M7s and 5s. My kids play with these ones.


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## Slazmo (Oct 11, 2013)

warmurf said:


> Man, get into some Nitecore. Shout yourself one.



I did shout myself a Nitecore EA4 and have regretted it for a long while now...


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## hayhonker (Oct 11, 2013)

The fact that they constantly show up on woot for real cheap tells me to stay away. Plus all these other facts people are posting.


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## matt4350 (Oct 11, 2013)

I bought the LL X14 at a camping store maybe a couple years back, it was my first torch after Mags. It was the coolest light I'd ever seen, I liked that it runs on AA, and it survived a bit of abuse with no problems. Looking back on it though, $210 was way too much to pay (didn't know any better at the time, obviously!). When I consider I bought an Eagtac SX25L2 for $50 less, sorta brings the whole pricing thing home. I have noticed LL rechargeables don't seem to stand up to continued use by multiple users, all the switches broke on those bought for my workplace. Re the CR123 pricing issue, seems the best price I can get is about $2.50 a piece in Australia, so I'm using RCRs to avoid going broke.


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## Dirtbasher (Oct 11, 2013)

Slazmo said:


> I did shout myself a Nitecore EA4 and have regretted it for a long while now...



Just got a D40A, much better than the EA4
Went camping recently and took about 8 lights with to test , play etc
My LL MT7 came out as my general use light , I preferred it to the others for its flood use, and was also nice to flick into throw when things were crawling around in the bush.
Other lights where Fenix, Klarus, Sunwayman, NiteCore, and some Convoy's

The MT7 was a nice light again to hang from the tent roof in flood mode, adjusted down to save batteries.
The Convoy C8 also was nice to hang from the roof top due to the GITD.
I think I will always have a LL for camping, I find it to be quite versatile.


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## thijsco19 (Oct 11, 2013)

I didn't follow this thread, just wanted to say this.

On my work they(/we) use Led Lenser flashlights, I think they are P7's. It's a great light for inspection purposes, the ability to focus the beam to look at a specific point and then use the wide beam to have a big overview is great.
We use different kinds of grease (new clean stuff and old dirty stuff), oil's and more of that kind of stuff, and still the focus system works great.

But personally I preffer some higher lumen lights.


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## Wellgate (Oct 11, 2013)

I have a Lenser MT7, a P7 , a V2, a P2 and an assortment of Fenix units, a Surefire and some aged Maglites. I have had no bad experiences with the Lensers, and found them to be competent, effective and rugged.

I do wonder if there is some Not-Invented-Here veiled criticism of these units including some patronising "this is your first good flashlight so you are bound to think it is good.." posts ?

W



thijsco19 said:


> I didn't follow this thread, just wanted to say this.
> 
> On my work they(/we) use Led Lenser flashlights, I think they are P7's. It's a great light for inspection purposes, the ability to focus the beam to look at a specific point and then use the wide beam to have a big overview is great.
> We use different kinds of grease (new clean stuff and old dirty stuff), oil's and more of that kind of stuff, and still the focus system works great.
> ...


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## stp (Oct 11, 2013)

Wellgate said:


> I have a Lenser MT7, a P7 , a V2, a P2 and an assortment of Fenix units, a Surefire and some aged Maglites. I have had no bad experiences with the Lensers, and found them to be competent, effective and rugged.
> 
> I do wonder if there is some Not-Invented-Here veiled criticism of these units including some patronising "this is your first good flashlight so you are bound to think it is good.." posts ?
> 
> W



I think that mostly the criticism is based on price to what you get ratio. And in case of Led Lenser it's really poor. Add to that that up to one year ago or so the Led Lenser's were very archaic electronic vise. They still offer poor efficiency and low lumen output for their size. Obviously if you want quality flood to throw they are probably the only choice now. I would give a lot for ZL electronic + LedLenser optic


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## StorminMatt (Oct 11, 2013)

Wellgate said:


> I have a Lenser MT7, a P7 , a V2, a P2 and an assortment of Fenix units, a Surefire and some aged Maglites. I have had no bad experiences with the Lensers, and found them to be competent, effective and rugged.
> 
> 
> I do wonder if there is some Not-Invented-Here veiled criticism of these units including some patronising "this is your first good flashlight so you are bound to think it is good.." posts ?
> ...




I think you are on to something here. In my collection of lights, I have a few Coast/Lenser lights - an HP550, a P17, a PX25, an HP4 penlight, a G20, and a few of those G10s that you get for 'free' when you buy one of their lights. I have to admit that I did buy many of these before I knew about other lights that are higher up the flashlight food chain. But with the exception of battery carrier problems in the PX25, they have all been really solid lights. The P14 is the one I've had the longest. And that light has been up mountains with me and been used countless times for late night car repairs. But it continues to be a GREAT light. No, it's not regulated (it just uses a resistor). But NiMH batteries keep the brightness fairly constant (and, despite what Coast says, it works FINE on NiMH). And having just a simple resistor rather tha. An elaborate driver probably ultimately makes it a more reliable light.


I will admit, though, that lots of Coast lights are not particularly good in the value department. That same P14 was a $70+ light from Fry's when I got it a few years back (the HP14, which replaced the P14 and produces 339 lumens costs the same). That's not cheap, especially when I consider that my Nitecore EA4 XM-L2 (a 4xAA like the P14) costed me only $55 from Illumination Supply. It SPANKS the P14 BADLY in terms both output (max 960 lumens vs only 212 lumens) and other features (like number of modes). The same can be sad about other AA lights I have, including a Dereelight Javelin (with 3AA extender and XM-L2 P60) and even my SC52w. I think this is one thing that REALLY goes against Coast/Lenser. They may be decent lights. But they simply cost too much for what they are. The P14/HP14 would probably be REALLY good $35-$40 lights.


With this said, if there's any good Coast/Lenser light out there, it's one that's on sale. As I said in a previous post on this thread, the HP550 was simply a phenomenal deal for $49 (and, especially, when they dropped it further to around $25). I don't know if they still make this light (it's not, and never was on their website) or sell it at Costco. But if you can get it for even $49, it's DEFINITELY worth it. Of course, many of their other lights are worth it if you don't have to pay full retail cost.


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## roadkill1109 (Oct 12, 2013)

After maglites, I thought the led lenser was the greatest gift to man, however after joining this forum, I got "enlightened". I still love my three led lensers, I still use them sometimes, but now I know they are several generations behind what the best and greatest are in this forum.


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## mcnair55 (Oct 12, 2013)

roadkill1109 said:


> After maglites, I thought the led lenser was the greatest gift to man, however after joining this forum, I got "enlightened". I still love my three led lensers, I still use them sometimes, but now I know they are several generations behind what the best and greatest are in this forum.



Here in the UK and it appears in many other countries as well they are market leaders as they have a slick way of selling.There ranges are packed in nice presentation packaging in very nice glass cabinets and have "buy me" written all over.In simple terms they provide light at the end of a tube and to your non enthusiast they are a great piece of kit.


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## ltec (Oct 13, 2013)

In our MOT centre 90% of the inspectors own a led lenser. I don't see how the lenser is over priced. As someone else said I think the p5 is a brilliant light. The focus is not a gimmick, it is something im always using. I can get 2 lights a p5 and p7 for £35 on ebay. how much is this quark turbo light your comparing with the p5 in sterling, I cant even find it on ebay and the only shop I found it in was £62


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## thijsco19 (Oct 13, 2013)

I think one of the reasons that they have not that many lumens is that when you zoom, the hotspot will be too bright. 
It's the lumens versus the intensity. 
If I shine a led lenser P7 (200 lumen) on a wall, mid day inside and maybe 20 meters away, I can see his hotspot but when I shine my eagletac D25LC2 (600+ lumens) I cant see the hotspot. (yes I can see some 'light' on the wall but only because I know it's there).
And yes the D25LC2 has a much smaller reflector but it has 3x more lumens.

It's Not the best comparison just an example.

Oh, and I think lumens wise they are a little bit overpriced but the zoom function makes that good.


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## thedoc007 (Oct 13, 2013)

I think the original poster should edit the title - starting off with an assumption, despite his good experience with LED Lenser. "Why does LED Lenser have a generally negative reputation on CPF?" would be more realistic. Just because some people don't like them, doesn't mean they are bad. There are many good stories involving these lights as well. 

I find it funny that so many people complain about their value. A lot of people on this forum love Surefire, and I'm not saying they aren't great lights, but they are overpriced in my opinion. Hardly anyone knocks them for that, though. Or taking it farther, people install 30 trits on a single light...anyone who has priced this out knows this is VERY expensive. Or pays $30 for someone to mod a $10 flashlight. Value is in the eyes of the owner...and it is their money. If it gives them pleasure, who cares how much it cost? Same thing applies here...especially since these lights offer features that no other (quality) lights have.

To each his own, if you like the zoom feature (as I do), LED Lensers are great! The only drawback I have found in actual use is the regulation, and using NiMH batteries takes care of this issue.


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## Lichtinsdunkel (Oct 13, 2013)

The same discussion we have in Germany. Some like the lights, others don't.
I think, that 200 lumes are enough for the most usages, that should not be the problem. The newer lights have a step-down, but are regulated. If you turn off and on again, you have the full power.
And they are stable. Watch the video that we did two years ago with Led Lenser lights. We threw them five or six times, and 70% of the lights were still running after this.

Flashlights Throwing


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## Slazmo (Oct 13, 2013)

I still cant get why the MT7 has only 11 hours of run time when the M7 has something like 60 hours? Wouldnt you want a Tactical light to last longer than a general civilian light? Thats my only qualm with my MT7 - mind you my EA4, I get anxious with that button switch... Summer's fast approaching and I am not looking forward to that ballooning that most are getting from their EA4's!


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## BWX (Oct 13, 2013)

It's like an expensive Huffy with crappy full suspension system when you could get a Schwinn hardtail for less.


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## Mr Floppy (Oct 14, 2013)

Slazmo said:


> I still cant get why the MT7 has only 11 hours of run time when the M7 has something like 60 hours?



Check out these graphs yet? http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...did-the-runtime-graphs!&p=4294836#post4294836


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## roadkill1109 (Oct 14, 2013)

mcnair55 said:


> Here in the UK and it appears in many other countries as well they are market leaders as they have a slick way of selling.There ranges are packed in nice presentation packaging in very nice glass cabinets and have "buy me" written all over.In simple terms they provide light at the end of a tube and to your non enthusiast they are a great piece of kit.



That's actually what got me, before I found out about this forum, being a flashlight noobie back then, I thought the Led Lensers were God's gift to man. haha  Fantastic packaging, kick-*** manual and brochures, came with free alkaline batteries so you were good to go upon opening the premium box. It really seemed like WOW! back then... to the claimed gold-plated terminals on the P14... and so on.... they marketed their product quite well, and even the videos you find online makes you want to buy more of their products! hahaha...

Boy was I schooled in this forum! 

But I have no regrets, still love those led lensers which I still own to this day, but will probably never buy another one ever again. I still keep them "mint-in-box"


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## roadkill1109 (Oct 14, 2013)

BWX said:


> It's like an expensive Huffy with crappy full suspension system when you could get a Schwinn hardtail for less.



Hey, I had one of these! Suspension wasn't crappy, it depends on how heavy you were. Lolz!


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## StorminMatt (Oct 14, 2013)

mcnair55 said:


> Here in the UK and it appears in many other countries as well they are market leaders as they have a slick way of selling.There ranges are packed in nice presentation packaging in very nice glass cabinets and have "buy me" written all over.In simple terms they provide light at the end of a tube and to your non enthusiast they are a great piece of kit.



That is, of course, another thing that draws people. Other lights (like Fenix, Nitecore, Sunwayman) are available at only a few select stores that are not frequented by most people or (in some places) online only. But Coast/Lenser lights are widely available at many big box stores, such as Fry's, Home Depot, and Lowes. Pretty much EVERYONE sees these lights and can buy them if they pass through the flashlight aisle of their favorite mass merchandise store. But you have to look for other lights, and sometimes wait days or weeks to get them. That's a BIG strike against such quality lights as Fenix or Nitecore. And that's the reason why fewer 'first timers' buy them than Coast/Lenser lights. Why other flashlight manufacturers don't go this route is beyond me. Think of how many people would buy an EA4 or D40A rather than an HP14 if Nitecore and Sunwayman were right there next to Coast at Home Depot!



BWX said:


> It's like an expensive Huffy with crappy full suspension system when you could get a Schwinn hardtail for less.



Comparing Coast/Lenser to Huffy is a bit unfair to Coast/Lenser. After all, if nothing else, Coast/Lenser DOES make quality, well built lights. They're just not the best and brightest in terms of technology. A better comparison would be buying the latest Schwinn vs buying a five year old Schwinn that is passed off as new and costs 50% more.


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## BWX (Oct 14, 2013)

Led lenser compared to 5 year old Schwinn is unfair to old Schwinn! LOL


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## Slazmo (Oct 15, 2013)

Mr Floppy said:


> Check out these graphs yet? http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...did-the-runtime-graphs!&p=4294836#post4294836



Ok claimed runtime - old mate didnt have the runtime for the MT7 anyhow... "Bugger"


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## ven (Oct 17, 2013)

1st post.........be gentle
My personal experience with lenser over the last few years has been good.Have many different models from the smaller p2 and p3 up to the p17.The most used is the t7,4x3aaa which i get for free(batteries not flashlights unfortunately) in work.I find the zoom very good,admittedly the hot spot is not as nice or bright by a fare way as say my p25 nitecore,but the flood is great.Very easy smooth zoom which can be done with one hand.Its been dropped quite a few times.......yep i am clumsy.First time i dropped it was from around 1.5m on a tilled floor,button would not always click.I made a call to ledco(uk importer) asking do they stock switch to purchase and how much as i had dropped it.Reply was yes we do and what is your address..........great how much i said,dont worry we will send one out to you in the post,just need your address.I received the switch and carrier in the post within 2 days free.To me that is as good as it can get service wise,and i did not buy from them direct too.From then i have dropped many times in work,down side is they love to roll,no issue as yet.
So since then i have added to my collection,yes on the expensive side but to me they do feel of good quality be it dated leds and modes.Battery life from standard duracells,its usually around 8hrs before i replace.In that time the first 2hrs are more than bright enough to work with(always have on high),after that its still bright but at a guess maybe 100lm ish for a few hours after,either way its enough to work with in the back of unlit machinery. 

A major downside is i cant think of another make that has as many counterfeit/copies out there.Some are very good to a point of unless you know exactly what to look for most would not be able to tell unless have the same model again if thats genuine.So poor beams,inferior leds............all add to a bad experience.Just my opinion.......

Admittedly CPF has made me see the light........a brighter light that is regulated,so slowly building a collection of other brands.


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## peterkin101 (Apr 2, 2014)

Well I owned a P14 a few years back. In fairness it was a good torch and I've just lashed out almost £210 on a new M17R. LED Lenser do come in for a fair bit of stick on here,some of it is deserved but some is also a bit harsh. To me they fit in between the cheapest good range of torches ie Maglite and the premium Surefire range. 

Yes they've got some foibles in their range ie some models with an unregulated supply and a beam which displays some colour fringing at the edges (!). But they also have some outstanding attributes-good build quality, ability to zoom the beam from flood to spot and good backup service. I'm also impressed with the new battery technology

LED Lenser have embraced a revolutionary battery formula ie LiFePO4 cell technology which far outstrips just about every other power source. AFAIK only Mag Instruments of all people are planning to introduce a torch,the TAC Rechargeable using the same type of cells.

Hows that for innovation?

I've tried Fenix and owned a TK41 for a while. Whilst it certainly had some excellent features, I always felt the gauge of the tubing was just a little too thin for me to be 100% confident of its ability to withstand an impact. My P14 didn't present me with anything like that concern.

So thats my 2 pennies worth. Not sure if most of you will agree but I think LED Lenser have some excellent products and it would be foolish to dismiss them out of hand.


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## mcnair55 (Apr 2, 2014)

peterkin101 said:


> Well I owned a P14 a few years back. In fairness it was a good torch and I've just lashed out almost £210 on a new M17R. LED Lenser do come in for a fair bit of stick on here,some of it is deserved but some is also a bit harsh. To me they fit in between the cheapest good range of torches ie Maglite and the premium Surefire range.
> 
> Yes they've got some foibles in their range ie some models with an unregulated supply and a beam which displays some colour fringing at the edges (!). But they also have some outstanding attributes-good build quality, ability to zoom the beam from flood to spot and good backup service. I'm also impressed with the new battery technology
> 
> ...



From a users experience Led Lenser are miles away from Fenix and i own a few of each. Fenix a far superior product.The bonus for LL you can buy them in hundreds of shops in the UK and you get a nice presented product if you buy the boxed versions rather than the blister versions Maplins sell.I would guess most LL are sold to the trade that is why they are using a confusing battery to Joe the public.


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## ven (Apr 2, 2014)

Congrats on the purchase,have you got the light? impressions? or is it in the mail.....

My most recent lenser is the t7.2 and it is excellent,nothing bad to say apart from the usual roll,so need to be careful of that.Like the mat finish,flood focus can now be locked in any position so a bonus with the t over the p range.I prefer the extra knurling too for grip.Run times are perfectly acceptable for me,easy 8hrs use before cell change,guess less than 100lm by that point,maybe even 50(not measured) but usable then change cells.


New t7.2




Replaced my beat up t7




cant be too bad as dropped more times than i can remember on to solid workshop floor or metal floor inside machines from 3ft+

Not being ipx8 makes no odds too as i cant remember last time i ever had a light under water........ever.


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## Yamabushi (Apr 2, 2014)

peterkin101 said:


> I've tried Fenix and owned a TK41 for a while. Whilst it certainly had some excellent features, I always felt the gauge of the tubing was just a little too thin for me to be 100% confident of its ability to withstand an impact.


The TK41 body tube is the same diameter and wall thickness as the older TK40. See the TK40 torture test http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?233856-My-Extreme-Fenix-TK40-Torture-Test


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## GROSHAK (Apr 2, 2014)

Cataract said:


> I believe Led Lensers have acquired a bad reputation in part because they used to be associated with Coast, which are cheap flashlights and usually priced accordingly. Led Lensers are made in Germany (could account for higher than average market price) and in my opinion they are very good lights. Their regulation circuit is not as good as other brands, though, and they will sooner rather than later start to slowly dim, but the ones I have do seem to keep a good output for a reasonnable amount of time (sorry, no numbers at present). This does not make them bad lights and they are well constructed, but some people don't like the fact that the head is plastic.
> 
> Now that my CPF reputation has gone down by 90% I'll shut up...




LED LEnser flashlights are not made in Germany. LED LEnser is owned by the Leatherman Group and the factory is in Zhongshan China


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## ven (Apr 2, 2014)

GROSHAK said:


> LED LEnser flashlights are not made in Germany. LED LEnser is owned by the Leatherman Group and the factory is in Zhongshan China




True,like surefire in that respect,USA designed but made in china..........


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## peterkin101 (Apr 2, 2014)

Yamabushi said:


> The TK41 body tube is the same diameter and wall thickness as the older TK40. See the TK40 torture test http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?233856-My-Extreme-Fenix-TK40-Torture-Test



Whilst I'm sure its perfectly ok it felt a bit too thin for my liking. Just my humble opinion.


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## peterkin101 (Apr 2, 2014)

ven said:


> True,like surefire in that respect,USA designed but made in china..........



Are Surefire now made in China?


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## mcnair55 (Apr 2, 2014)

GROSHAK said:


> LED LEnser flashlights are not made in Germany. LED LEnser is owned by the Leatherman Group and the factory is in Zhongshan China



LED Lenser's are manufactured in Germany and a new wholly owned 200,000 sq. ft production facility in Yang Jiang, China. The new facility is one of the most technologically advanced in China and doubles the previous output.

Are you saying they shut there German plant down and just retain there Chinese assembly plant then since they were bought out.?


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## peterkin101 (Apr 2, 2014)

ven said:


> Congrats on the purchase,have you got the light? impressions? or is it in the mail......



It's in transit so haven't got it yet. My rather disappointing Magcharger V4 is being eBayed as it has a WORSE performance than a V3 I had a few years ago.

My first choice was a Maglite Magcharger LED (NOT a LED conversion via Terralux as they aren't compatible with the V4 sadly) 

However they are IMPOSSIBLE to obtain via usual channels in the UK. I could have obtained from the US via eBay the RL1019 version, then been liable for any duty and VAT then had to fork out for a 240v AC adaptor. Far too much hassle. Then the M17R seemed a better bet. Brighter, more advanced battery technology and readily available in the UK. 

Maglite need a kicking for that!


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## ven (Apr 2, 2014)

peterkin101 said:


> Are Surefire now made in China?




As far as i am aware or have read they are designed and show made in usa ,but stand to be corrected of course.I am sure they are built in china...........could be wrong as info of net so not gospel.Sure same with armytek which are canadian,designed in canada but assembled in china.............again the experts will put me right if wrong

Too add they still have to be made to the specific requirements,just cheaper to manufacture,does not mean inferior parts etc used


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## peterkin101 (Apr 2, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> Are you saying they shut there German plant down and just retain there Chinese assembly plant then since they were bought out.?



Awful if true but been happening everywhere in the UK so can't see Germany as being much different. Apart from some companies such as Miele (where the family owners has vowed NEVER to outsource or move production abroad-a bit like Maglite in that respect!) lots have been at it.


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## ven (Apr 2, 2014)

From further delving it looks like surefire is built in CA but armytek are made in china,so apologies there unless another miss informed info


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## alpg88 (Apr 2, 2014)

ven said:


> Sure same with armytek which are canadian,designed in canada but assembled in china.............again the experts will put me right if wrong



they are made in china, shipped from china,. canadian address listed on their website is a residential house in residential area. but they do seem to have good cc overall, reading from this and other forums about armytek shows they do have good communication, and will to make it right, if something went wrong. most of the time at least.


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## ven (Apr 2, 2014)

alpg88 said:


> they are made in china, shipped from china,. canadian address listed on their website is a residential house in residential area. but they do seem to have good cc overall, reading from this and other forums about armytek shows they do have good communication, and will to make it right, if something went wrong. most of the time at least.



I believe very good lights,I will be adding one to my collection at some point,just not sure which,quite like the look of the new grizzly


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## Xacto (Apr 4, 2014)

With the height of wages and employment-related costs in Germany, I doubt that any (bigger) LedLenser could retail in the double digit range if they were produced here. 

Regarding Surefire - I never read anywhere that they are being made outside the US. 

Cheers
Thorsten


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## mcnair55 (Apr 4, 2014)

Xacto said:


> With the height of wages and employment-related costs in Germany, I doubt that any (bigger) LedLenser could retail in the double digit range if they were produced here.
> 
> Regarding Surefire - I never read anywhere that they are being made outside the US.
> 
> ...



Are you saying then the German plant is now closed and just the Chinese operation is making.?


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## Xacto (Apr 4, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> Are you saying then the German plant is now closed and just the Chinese operation is making.?


I don't think they ever produced in Germany, from what I know they "only" develop in Germany and have their HQ here. I must admit that I never really looked into LedLenser flashlights since .... well.... as stupid as it may sound.... they do not have the best reputation amongst flashaholics. 

Cheers
Thorsten


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## rayman (Apr 4, 2014)

Same reason with me. When I was first looking into high-power flashlights and came around Led Lenser those obviously false promised runtimes were the reason why I never really looked into them.

rayman


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## ven (Apr 4, 2014)

I am no lenser fanboy for sure,and i think some are priced way too high imo........not others.
From my experience its been excellent,from the 1 time a fault,new part sent out for next day all free including post,no questions on age,warranty or where bought from,pretty much as good as it gets considering the fault was my own. 

The latest t7.2 i have is excellent,yes not the brightest by 4100lm i own,but great size/feel,great zoom,i dont go diving so water proof to me is N/A .

iirc i paid £42,about the same as an average fenix or nitecore light(average as in cost/model range).Its not regulated but i get longer run times,i know when to change cells after a good few hours of use.I can leave it on high for hours,gets a little warm as in maybe 30oC after 3hrs in a confined space without being held........only 250lm to start so thats why :laughing: but 250lm and 320 on burst is sufficient for my needs and some in work.Can see it now,blinded by reflection of 4400lm :laughing:

A lot of bad rep i put down to fakes,so so many ,i have never seen as many counterfeit lights as lensers........and pretty good too unless look close and know what to look for.

For me there is no best,just best for the application thats required,like a tk61 is not the best for a night time loo visit,but a low lumen small AA light is best(just an example).

Would i pay £200 on a lenser,in truth it would have to be amazing so no as i have many other branded lights i would choose before........but thats my opinion,not right or wrong,just different taste/needs/wants and what peeps presume or know whats better value,thats all what matters to the buyer.

Many many sellers say UK distributor,only by digging into ,you can see china=fake
Lenser do not have any official china distributors..............lenser themselves have told me that on the phone.

If it is cheap then fake,so unfortunately you do pay highly for a light that does not meet the ip8 standards. Interestingly on that ,i have read many ip8 rated 1.5m drop light break from lesser drops,where as my old t7 ipx4 has been dropped many many many........ times on hard surfaces and worked .

Some by ZL and DOA,as with any brand,nitecore i have 5 of,all issue free and work flawless,others had 5 and all either DOA or soon after.

Different experiences by all,but from reading up ,certain brands limit this from happening significantly(surefire to name just 1).

Few issues it seems with Fenix right now on the tk61,although does not bother me,it does others,again............as above different experiences.
Out of all the brands over the years,maglite has been by far the worst for me,but that is replacement bulbs and poor run times along with poor output(obv modded ones are a different kettle of fish so respect that fully)
I like a variety of brands,convoy to eagletac to fenix to lenser to 47s........could go on.Some brands i prefer to others,i buy more of their brand........simple as that for me.

As long as your happy with your light,be it a $5 or $500 and does the job you want it for, then thats all what matters imho:twothumbs
Disclaimer :laughing: just my experience and will stop waffling:tinfoil:


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## mcnair55 (Apr 4, 2014)

ven said:


> I am no lenser fanboy for sure,and i think some are priced way too high imo........not others.
> From my experience its been excellent,from the 1 time a fault,new part sent out for next day all free including post,no questions on age,warranty or where bought from,pretty much as good as it gets considering the fault was my own.
> 
> The latest t7.2 i have is excellent,yes not the brightest by 4100lm i own,but great size/feel,great zoom,i dont go diving so water proof to me is N/A .
> ...




Well written,i enjoyed that.like you i have a few LL in my collection and i always manage to get a discount from Arco UK.I might give that torch a go only thing that puts me off a little is the non regulation but it seems you are happy so i probably would be.


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## ven (Apr 4, 2014)

I can recommend it,i honestly dont feel short changed compared to similar priced nitecore or fenix lights.

I like the mat finish,the p7.2 app allows some light through the sides,the t7.2 has no holes in the head.Along with the extra knurling for grip over the p7.2 it also has the ability to lock in any zoom position.This is great if want a fixed zoom/focus for prolonged use,only slight down side is(you will soon get used to it).Is when "zooming" you need to apply slight up wards(will make sense when/if choose to invest) pressure or it can slightly move towards the lock causing it to be less smooth in operation.

The bonus for me regarding none regulation is the run times,i can have it on for hours and its still more than adequate for tasks,and once it gets to a point(probably 100lm,or less) you just change the cells within the next 30mins or so as will continue to run(as you know this anyway) allowing plenty of warning before the darkness falls around you.

A single 18650 for example will give X amount of hours at a set lm(step down any way) lensers are a slow step down,i find its only after about 3 or 4hrs i start to notice generally............so step down maybe after 10 or 20 mins,or gradual over hours......I do like regulated,most of my lights are,just there are flip sides to none regulated in some cases imo...........not saying better,just in some cases more useful

I find the p14 a little on the large size for easy comfortable use,t7.2 imho is a perfect flashlight size,slip in pants or coat,but feels solid in hand.Head size(again as you know) is a good general size.

ledco the UK distributors are 10 out or 10 to deal with,efficient is an understatement from personal experiences:twothumbs
Their 5yr warranty is better than most fenix/nitecore brands and also have the back up if needed of the part coming free next day to your door.................quite difficult to beat imo too.No sending to China,1 month later light back.........some use that is

I can say 1 more down side too, is that they can mark easy,but so do some of my other branded lights.........


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## Sea Urchin (Apr 5, 2014)

hi newbie here! LL are pretty good products in there own right. l have owned a few different brands and find that the LL to be outstanding that is until I came to this forum. l am currently using a LL p 7 .2 after losing the original P7 . I like the focusing system and light in general. They Were the bees knee to me after using other brands like Maglite, Toshiba, Pelican, and some other brands.. However they are costly. After coming upon CPF l have been enlightened to the number of options available and I have just bought a Fenix Tk15 am anxiously awaiting delivery.


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## peterkin101 (Apr 6, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> From a users experience Led Lenser are miles away from Fenix and i own a few of each. Fenix a far superior product.The bonus for LL you can buy them in hundreds of shops in the UK and you get a nice presented product if you buy the boxed versions rather than the blister versions Maplins sell.I would guess most LL are sold to the trade that is why they are using a confusing battery to Joe the public.



Fenix are perfectly good. 

However IMHO they are in no way,shape or form far superior to LED Lenser.

My reasons are as below at least as far as the TK41 was concerned:

First, for optimum performance, it required 8 x AA LSD NiMH cells (Sanyo Eneloop XX) and a necessary
intelligent charger. That adds at least £60 onto the price of unit or even more if you want an 8 Cell
AA version. Full intelligent conditioning and charging of LSD NiMH cells can take days. 

Second-the beam is fixed. Which means you get what you get.

Third-if a Fenix proves proves ever faulty or you have an accident with it.Where do you send it to? How long will you be without it for? 
Never mind the Sale of goods Act. If you can't trace the retailer or you bought via a private sale etc you need the backup of a UK distributor
and a fully equipped service department. I've already heard of their products having to be shipped back to China and bother with repairs.
How true or how fair I don't know but 'no smoke without fire' springs to mind.

I don't want to sound like a Fenix basher as I'm not. They have a very comprehensive range, good light output
,excellent water resistance and are for lot of people an ideal solution.

Its just that on this occasion LED Lenser are better for me.

Finally LED Lenser are around in places like Maplin but only the lower range models. I'd be very surprised if you
could spot anything more advanced than a P7 on the High St. An M17R would be almost an impossibility for example.


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## mcnair55 (Apr 6, 2014)

peterkin101 said:


> Fenix are perfectly good.
> 
> However IMHO they are in no way,shape or form far superior to LED Lenser.
> 
> ...



You are entitled to your opinion and in all honesty it is refreshing to see you sticking up for LL as you know many members will not give them house room.As regards your charging remark i am miles away from your thoughts of use and i use a standard charger made by Vapex if i remember was cheap as chips and together with any eneloop or type have been feeding my lights quite successfully for years without any issues and non of that discharging nonsense as i never read any of that on the instruction sheet.

The warranty issue is no different with LL or Fenix your contract is made with the seller and you allow them to sort out any issue,both lights are made in China anyway.If a newly bought Fenix failed it would be returned to the store i bought it from as would the LL and i know the sale of goods act inside out so there would be no pulling the wool over my eyes as many stores like to try on.

On the lower end of the market LL are nothing better than toys for xmas crackers and key chain lights like the EO5 are much better compared to similar offered by LL.

I am quite happy to buy LL as they are easy peazzy to get a discount from Arco or similar but on an overall basis of model range and fuel regulation Fenix are a clear winner to me by a country mile.


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## BWX (Apr 7, 2014)

Fenix quality compared to LL? 

Blasphemy!


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## Unicorn (Apr 8, 2014)

I like my P5R. The output is decent for a small light, and it's a decent beam, even though adjustable. It's always in my pocket, and the charger in my car or messenger bag.


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## Albinoni1967 (Apr 8, 2014)

kts said:


> I own a P5 and a P7, I like them for their throw and compact size, I cant find another light in that size that wil throw as far.
> 
> And I will bet that most people bashing in this thread has never owned a Ledlenser light, but they have read here on CPF in every thread about Ledlenser that they suck, so it must be true...
> 
> ...


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## mcnair55 (Apr 8, 2014)

I think the biggest problem with Led Lenser is the lack of regulation, i own several but prefer others in truth but will still buy LL.


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## ven (Apr 9, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> I think the biggest problem with Led Lenser is the lack of regulation, i own several but prefer others in truth but will still buy LL.



I think cost too mr mcnair as they are not cheap lights either,to add quite a few dont like the focus system or "zoom" lights.
I see both sides,have both types of lights,pros/cons of both for me.
Regulation is good,eats power though,can go off all of a sudden depending on light
Lack of gives longer run times,plenty of warning before left in the dark,depending on light there is usually still a lot of usable light when cells are not putting out full lumen potential.So could argue good battery vampires as will drain cells.

They are water proof to an extent,obv not a good idea to focus under water but then why would you want to,not really a diver light.

I also take the ipx8 rating with a pinch of salt,read too many times of high priced branded lights letting water in.......

I dont use lights under water,if i did then i would buy a designated light for ............well under water.

Rain,drop in a puddle is no issue for a lenser......so really for me it is not important ,especially as i dont go in or near water with my lights.

I benefit from both,unregulated in work with alki cells is better,regulated outside of work better as i top off my cells so even though most give warnings of low V i have yet to see it.Also some have built in V indicators,usually flashing lights(nitesore p25/ea4/ea8/tm15) for example.


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## Glofindel (Apr 10, 2014)

It's like other mentioned. They are overpriced. Here's my story.
In mid 2012 I decided after many years of Maglite solitaire and cheap Chinese LED keychain light, I need something decent, something with led bulb, something with proper switch for my EDC. So the search began, the outdoor retail was the first stop and here there was LEDLenser p2 laid inside the beautiful locked glass display cabinet. It has clicky switch, takes AAA, pocket clip and the size is perfect.
I really liked it, but I saw the price tag. $59.95!!!!! What?? For that little light?? 
I walked out almost immediately, and as soon as I got home I went on internet and found they were selling for around 1/2 of the retail price. So I bought.
Few weeks later it arrived. I was so excited. Opened up the box, checked everything is there, inserted the battery and turned it on.
First impression was "um...I thought it'd be brighter" , or maybe it's still had sunlight so I waited after sunset and try again. 
This time even more disappointed, there is only pretty much hot spot, rarely any spill and the zoom focus is absolute joke. What it does is only make the edge of hot spot sharper and that's it.
I tried to convince myself that should be okay so I used it for 1 week and stopped. I got back to Solitaire.
After heart broken with P2 the extensive research has begun. I went on Google, read and read some more then I came across 4sevens Peron1. I didn't wait any longer bought it waited for a couple of weeks and I never pick up the P2 again.


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## StorminMatt (Apr 10, 2014)

Glofindel said:


> It's like other mentioned. They are overpriced. Here's my story.



Speaking of LED Lenser stories and prices, I had a thought about that last night. I was out with a friend. And I had my Maelstrom MMU-X3. I suddenly thought about how my old Lenser P14 costed about the same as I paid for the Maelstrom. Yet the Maelstrom is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more light. And if I was to buy a Lenser light of close to similar output, the price tag would be in the HUNDREDS of dollars!

Rather have a 4AA light (like the P14) than a 26650 light? The EA4 is quite a bit cheaper than what I paid for the P14 (or what you will pay for a new HP14). But it has LOTS more output and more modes.


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## ven (Apr 10, 2014)

Glofindel said:


> It's like other mentioned. They are overpriced. Here's my story.
> In mid 2012 I decided after many years of Maglite solitaire and cheap Chinese LED keychain light, I need something decent, something with led bulb, something with proper switch for my EDC. So the search began, the outdoor retail was the first stop and here there was LEDLenser p2 laid inside the beautiful locked glass display cabinet. It has clicky switch, takes AAA, pocket clip and the size is perfect.
> I really liked it, but I saw the price tag. $59.95!!!!! What?? For that little light??
> I walked out almost immediately, and as soon as I got home I went on internet and found they were selling for around 1/2 of the retail price. So I bought.
> ...



I had a p2 and lost it,your right its rubbish tbh,i did not like it apart from size,the price is way off:thinking: i paid less than £10 few years back so around $18 of which imho its probably just worth..........

$59.99 is past rediculous for a p2,for $60 i would be wanting a pack of at least 5.......but i would not want 5,i bought a couple for key chains and served a very average purpose.Real bottom end cheap lenser,same with any brand,just not made to the same quality as the more expensive models(that is what i have found with many other brands too)

So yes,that would put me off lenser for ever!!!!!

The p3 is ok for a small light,p4 is again ok but cant compare to other pen lights.
Once you get to the p5.2/p7.2/t7.2 they are good lights imo,and around $59.99 for the latter.


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## ven (Apr 10, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> Speaking of LED Lenser stories and prices, I had a thought about that last night. I was out with a friend. And I had my Maelstrom MMU-X3. I suddenly thought about how my old Lenser P14 costed about the same as I paid for the Maelstrom. Yet the Maelstrom is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more light. And if I was to buy a Lenser light of close to similar output, the price tag would be in the HUNDREDS of dollars!
> 
> Rather have a 4AA light (like the P14) than a 26650 light? The EA4 is quite a bit cheaper than what I paid for the P14 (or what you will pay for a new HP14). But it has LOTS more output and more modes.



I have all the above and agree,being honest i dont like the p14 that much,i just think its too big for its use,the p7/p7.2 or t7/t7.2 offers same/similar performance regarding output but in a more compact(lot better )design.So my p14 never really gets used........just not a nice light in hand,could be being used to the imho perfect size of the t7.2(x3 size)

ea4 is a great light,and as you say runs off 4x AA like the p14,brightness is chalk and cheese,far more compact and cheaper for the ea4.If you required a zoomable,that would be the only thing the p14 has over the ea4.However i find the ea4 a good balance of flood/throw so on a personal level regarding those lights the ea4 is a far better choice.

x3 i have is the x3vn,beautiful made,solid light,feels nice in hand(similar size........ish to a t7.2).
Simple UI bit so has the p14 with just 2 modes
x3vn is in a class of its own tbh,its an amazing light,far superior ,only down side as you say for some is the cells,this is not a down side for me,i like the 26650 cells tbh,think great.
Mine is de-domed and around 3300lm on a kinoko 26650,awesome power from such a small light...............simply amazing,but with/out the mods its in a different league anyway,other than similar cost.........

So with you 100% Matt with everything you say:thumbsup:

Each lenser owner(who likes lenser) will have a specific or favourite i presume,mine is the t7.2,that is a great light for around £40 imho,no regrets,5yr warranty,very good one in UK too as mentioned in past.


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## Glofindel (Apr 10, 2014)

ven said:


> I had a p2 and lost it,your right its rubbish tbh,i did not like it apart from size,the price is way off:thinking: i paid less than £10 few years back so around $18 of which imho its probably just worth..........
> 
> $59.99 is past rediculous for a p2,for $60 i would be wanting a pack of at least 5.......but i would not want 5,i bought a couple for key chains and served a very average purpose.Real bottom end cheap lenser,same with any brand,just not made to the same quality as the more expensive models(that is what i have found with many other brands too)
> 
> ...



LED is only brand that heavily marketing on Australian retailer so they just set out the price they want.

After had P2 I never look at the other Lenser's rang again.

For only AAA 1 mode light. Fenix E05 is much better than the P2 and cheaper too.


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## ven (Apr 10, 2014)

Glofindel said:


> LED is only brand that heavily marketing on Australian retailer so they just set out the price they want.
> 
> After had P2 I never look at the other Lenser's rang again.
> 
> For only AAA 1 mode light. Fenix E05 is much better than the P2 and cheaper too.



I have no experience of the eo5 but i know it will be better than the p2......... :laughing: it cant really get much worse.

Not sure on your prices,obv rip off,lots of fakes too as the import from china to oz,then ship out from oz.........

So if i was paying the prices you have then i would more than likely not have a lenser (100% not for p2) cant believe that,that is just ridiculous.No wonder disappointed as its a $15 light at best.

Other ranges are good,as i mentioned the new .2 range,the t7.2 is excellent imho,but again dependent on price,for me its worth the £40 ish price,once you start getting to £60 or $100 then things change..........


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## mcnair55 (Apr 10, 2014)

Generally you can get decent discounts from Muppet Land (Maplins) when they have a sale or trade stores like Arco who sell loads to the trade.Tool vans like Mag are pretty good for arm twisting.

Living quite close to loads of out door stores generally gets a 25% reduction in the end of season sales,more if they have a bad season.


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## Glofindel (Apr 10, 2014)

ven said:


> I have no experience of the eo5 but i know it will be better than the p2......... :laughing: it cant really get much worse.
> 
> Not sure on your prices,obv rip off,lots of fakes too as the import from china to oz,then ship out from oz.........
> 
> ...



so true.. before 2012 was the golden age of retailers people spent tons of money in the shop but after economy downturn hit in 2012. Retailers were still stand where they were and did not realise people were running out of money. Most of people then turned to online shopping since then.
Nowadays is better though, retail price comes down a lot and you can get some discount if you shop the right time.


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## mcnair55 (Apr 10, 2014)

Glofindel said:


> so true.. before 2012 was the golden age of retailers people spent tons of money in the shop but after economy downturn hit in 2012. Retailers were still stand where they were and did not realise people were running out of money. Most of people then turned to online shopping since then.
> Nowadays is better though, retail price comes down a lot and you can get some discount if you shop the right time.



As regards your observation your dates are not correct for the UK retail market and the increase of on-line shopping was due more to other factors.For the UK you will see the typical High Street change to something we have never witnessed in the UK before and the outlook is exciting for what they have planned to regenerate.


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## Glofindel (Apr 10, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> As regards your observation your dates are not correct for the UK retail market and the increase of on-line shopping was due more to other factors.For the UK you will see the typical High Street change to something we have never witnessed in the UK before and the outlook is exciting for what they have planned to regenerate.



I think we were suffered of economic downturn later than everybody else due to previous government's campaign to pump in the money back in to keep the economy float above the water. Thanks to them, most of major retailers were keeping employers and I kept my job.
However I knew it won't be long.


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## mcnair55 (Apr 10, 2014)

Glofindel said:


> I think we were suffered of economic downturn later than everybody else due to previous government's campaign to pump in the money back in to keep the economy float above the water. Thanks to them, most of major retailers were keeping employers and I kept my job.
> However I knew it won't be long.



It was the second quarter of 2008 that the downturn kicked in


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## Glofindel (Apr 11, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> It was the second quarter of 2008 that the downturn kicked in



yep. Here it was stable until 2nd quarter ended of 2011 [according to my shop's figures]


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## Urbex Archangel (Dec 24, 2014)

I come at this from a different angle, and maybe some of you can help me. I'm a professional photographer. What I like about the LED Lenser lights is they throw a nice neutral colored light, and have even illumination across the beam which is very useful for light painting, and very rare to find, at least in my limited experience. For this reason, I'm considering the Led Lenser X21R.2. But, if you can give me an alternative that can can go from wide to spot with the same characteristics that the LED Lenser does, I'm all ears.


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## StorminMatt (Dec 24, 2014)

Urbex Archangel said:


> I come at this from a different angle, and maybe some of you can help me. I'm a professional photographer. What I like about the LED Lenser lights is they throw a nice neutral colored light, and have even illumination across the beam which is very useful for light painting, and very rare to find, at least in my limited experience. For this reason, I'm considering the Led Lenser X21R.2. But, if you can give me an alternative that can can go from wide to spot with the same characteristics that the LED Lenser does, I'm all ears.



I have to agree that one of the nice things about Lensers is that they DO produce a nice, even beam when set to flood. But neutral? Haven't seen a neutral Lenser yet. They're all quite cold. Even a typical neutral XM-L2 makes the tint of a Lenser look pretty bad, to say nothing about a Nichia.


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## ven (Dec 25, 2014)

Urbex Archangel said:


> I come at this from a different angle, and maybe some of you can help me. I'm a professional photographer. What I like about the LED Lenser lights is they throw a nice neutral colored light, and have even illumination across the beam which is very useful for light painting, and very rare to find, at least in my limited experience. For this reason, I'm considering the Led Lenser X21R.2. But, if you can give me an alternative that can can go from wide to spot with the same characteristics that the LED Lenser does, I'm all ears.




Check out a few mtg2 lights,great neutral tint,like the acebeam k40m and x60m,also thrunite tn35. For a flood light then the mm15 or vinhs latest creation here

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...M15vnM-Videography-amp-Photography-Mule-Light

None are spot to flood,but the x60m and k40m/tn35 offer a good range of throw and flood.


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## Urbex Archangel (Dec 25, 2014)

Thanks. I'll check them out!



ven said:


> Check out a few mtg2 lights,great neutral tint,like the acebeam k40m and x60m,also thrunite tn35. For a flood light then the mm15 or vinhs latest creation here
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...M15vnM-Videography-amp-Photography-Mule-Light
> 
> None are spot to flood,but the x60m and k40m/tn35 offer a good range of throw and flood.


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## Big Al W (Dec 25, 2014)

My p7 failed hard after just 10 months, can't fix no matter what i try.. Binned and won't be buying anymore lensers 


TM06, TM36, P25 (Black), EA1, E99TI (Ltd Edition)


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## ven (Dec 25, 2014)

Big Al W said:


> My p7 failed hard after just 10 months, can't fix no matter what i try.. Binned and won't be buying anymore lensers
> 
> 
> 
> Dont know if genuine or not but a ring or mail to LEDCO will have soon sorted out,usually within a working day part/s sent out free.


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## mcnair55 (Dec 25, 2014)

Big Al W said:


> My p7 failed hard after just 10 months, can't fix no matter what i try.. Binned and won't be buying anymore lensers
> 
> 
> TM06, TM36, P25 (Black), EA1, E99TI (Ltd Edition)




Many lights do that including other leading makes,you should have used your warranty.


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## ven (Dec 25, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> Many lights do that including other leading makes,you should have used your warranty.



Yes this is true,many well known and more expensive lights can be DOA and this can mean a long wait...............posting to China for one example.


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## phoenix1901 (May 26, 2015)

Hi all there from Turkey,

I bought my Fenix TK-41 v1. via this forum which share reviews on it from Denmark and really happy with it even don't use much.

A good light but a little big.

For the car or bag i wanted to buy a small 4xaaa battery powered Led Lenser M7 new version 400lmn.

Today just got my led lenser but it's storobe function failed just after a few minutes.

Now only working in high mode and fast strobe mode so the other don't work.

I'm not sure i do the something wrong as there is only one button.

I was read one user have strobe functions failed like mine and changed one as same too but it was for the old 220lmn version must be in amazon.de 

Now it's exciting the new version have problem after only a few minutes.

Do you have any ideas on solution or i think to return it in tomorrow.

Best regards


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## Jiri (Jan 1, 2016)

MT7 said:


> hello,
> I bought the Led Lenser MT7 two weeks ago,and It's one of the best flashlights I ever had,but I saw in the forum that Led Lenser's flashlights are bad flashlights.
> Why are you think that Led Lenser flashlight so bad? they have many functions as strobe,SOS,boost and blink-even most of the surefire flashlights haven't strobe mode.Led Lenser's flashlights need only few cheap aa batteries,not like the 123A that costs a lot of money,and the advanced focus system of led lenser is awesome.
> So why a lots of people hates Led Lenser?



The question is not why is Led Lenser so bad, but why it is so popular? I guess because a lot of people who don't follow flashlight world think this is the best choice on the market, because their friends have it too and it's the only thing they can recommend. And also cause their are available in almost any outdoor store. We have like just a couple of Brick and mortar store for Fenix, NiteCore or Olight flashlights in Czech Republic. Don't know any of these store that would sell for example SureFire. Led Lenser otherwise is everywhere. So people buy it, don't see a much better choices in stores...


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## Jiri (Jan 1, 2016)

peterkin101 said:


> Fenix are perfectly good.
> 
> However IMHO they are in no way,shape or form far superior to LED Lenser.
> 
> ...



I don't know how elsewhere, but in Czech Republic the seller has 30 days for solving your problem, if it's unrepairable malfunction he either gives you new light or refund your money... the seller has to deal with his supplier (Fenix). It is not customers job to deal with the company. And it is the same with Fenix or Led Lenser or any other brand.


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## bykfixer (Jan 1, 2016)

Sitting here on my comfy sofa in America, it's enlightening to watch the conversation of folks across the world on New Years Day. Almost as if I'm in a pub listening to folks in a nearby booth discussing of all things...flashlights. 
Folks who've all landed in town for work purposes and are meeting in a tavern at 5 pm happy hour.
Cheers.

It sounds like LED Lenser has done over there what Mag Lite has done over here. Saturated a flashlight market long enough that the masses buy them....well because everybody else does. 

I gave my brother in law a Coast HP1 for Christmas. He says "Coast? Never heard of them" in a 'that's pretty cool' tone.
I told him it's a focus light. He imediately defaults to a Mag Light twisty head focus mindset and begins twisting the head saying "I don't get it."...I slid it for him and he was impressed with the beam, in a non flashaholic way, spot or flood.

Reading this thread I wonder if the masses where you guys live if given a Mag Lite would try sliding the head because so many folks default to an LED Lenser sliding head mindset.


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## ven (Jan 1, 2016)

There is a bonus of the mags in the focus respect imo, the twist does stop the zoomy from moving as easy as the t7/p7 etc models(any that zoom other than the now lockable ones like the t7.2). My t7 always moved easily........too easily and always had to tweak it. Kind of do it subconsciously after a bit, so what was a pita at 1st becomes the norm after a while! 

I reckon the push/pull zoomy saved the light on many many drops though over time with the added cushion so to speak(absorbs the impact if a head fall and zoomed out).


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## Mstevens113 (Mar 16, 2016)

I always liked the looks of the Lenser P7.2 for some reason maybe as when I fitst started looking at proper lights rather than cheapo crap it was one of the first I saw. I managed to win one dirt cheap on ebay. Thought I should have one, might not be the most high tech or useful but what the hell, for the price theres nothing lost.

Compared to my Nitecore MH10 the lenser is nowhere near as versatile. Things the MH10 does the Lenser can't - Slimmer for carrying, moonlight mode, strobe/beacon, 1000lm even spread from close to mid range, long runtime, tail stand, diffuser compatible, waterproof, USB charge etc, you get the picture, we've all heard it so many times. If off out somewhere dark this light will be with me as its so versatile. 

The Lenser has its zoomed in throw which is pretty good, goes way further than the MH10. Thats pretty much the only thing it can win on though.

Yet, for some reason, it always puts a smile on my face when I use it. Maybe its the throw, or the feel of it, or the zoom to play with, I don't know. For someone who likes his lights though that is ultimately it what its all about. 

So Lensers, yeah, I'm a fan if one can be picked up at the right price so its a fun light not a 'serious' light.


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## ven (Mar 16, 2016)

Trouble is, dirt cheap lensers are usually fake unfortunately. p7.2 for much less than £40 will be fake, even better when you can buy 2 for £30 :laughing: . Ebay is full of them.........brimming! Torch direct or flashaholics for genuine in the UK(of course more authorised sellers, just naming a couple).


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## tsask (Mar 16, 2016)

They do make some cool looking lights and they were among the first to get their LED lights in retail stores in the USA, yet their marketing expertise exceeded the quality and reliability in the light itself. I just had one of my 3 AAA White/green LED Lensers fail this week. For the 'enlightened' there is no reason to buy one of these "LED Lensers" when so many other quality brands are available today.


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## Buch Nezzer (Mar 16, 2016)

ven said:


> Trouble is, dirt cheap lensers are usually fake unfortunately. p7.2 for much less than £40 will be fake, even better when you can buy 2 for £30 :laughing: . Ebay is full of them.........brimming! Torch direct or flashaholics for genuine in the UK(of course more authorised sellers, just naming a couple).



@Mstevens113 - "could" have hit on a genuine P7.2 - I know I did - checks out 100%. If the same, seller was listing them (new in box) starting at £9.99, the max I saw one go for was 18 quid, free postage. So if it's about the money, those that got hold of one of these, have no complaints... am sure. At it's brightest, focus/spot , I get a few hundred meters good visibility from it, is well built, feels nice, and looks good - a keeper 


My first post...good to be here - and HI.

:rock:


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## StorminMatt (Mar 16, 2016)

tsask said:


> I just had one of my 3 AAA White/green LED Lensers fail this week.



The battery carriers in their 3AAA lights are notoriously unreliable.


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## ckeilah (Mar 16, 2016)

Urbex Archangel said:


> I come at this from a different angle, and maybe some of you can help me. I'm a professional photographer.



I use a couple of Goal Zero lights for my photography. They have very even light from spot to flood, and the color balance is fine. They also recharge off a USB cable, and run at 100% for a long time. Also, the focus is done by a ring, rather than the T7's slider, so it STAYS PUT. It's almost as fast to focus too. Great little lights. OH! I just grabbed one and unscrewed the tail. I didn't realize they had replaceable batteries! Even better. Takes one 18650 2Ah.


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## ckeilah (Mar 16, 2016)

I carried a little Fenix on my keychain for years, then decided I wanted something more. Woot! suckered me into the LEDLensers, and I was pretty happy with the T7, although annoyed at how quickly and steadily the intensity faded away, and also how it wouldn't stay focused where I put it (I guess the T7.2 fixed the latter problem, but I don't have one of those). A year or two ago I started reading CPF and then stumbled into a good deal on a couple of Nitecore EA41 (~$40us). Aside from the brightness fading as the batteries run down (strange, because I thought it had a power regulator) I really like it. On low power it's a great close up flood light without blinding me. On high power it's so bright I can see the flags from the tees on golf courses. I'm going to try lithium batteries in it, and I suspect that will solve the fading power problem. The T7 is relegated to a drawer now, but at a Woot! price it was a fine flashlight. At a similar price, the Nitecore EA41 keeps me satisfied.

Re. waterproof: I once took a $10 plastic no-name flashlight scuba diving. We went below 100' and the little thing kept putting out light. I had to whack it a few times, but it got us into and out of a cave. Even cheap junk can out perform fine expensive equipment sometimes! ;-)

PS: The EA41 has one of the best UIs I've seen on a flashlight! I love that I can turn it on to LOW or BRIGHT or "last used" or (I just learned! flashing). I also like that I can switch directly to fast flashing. I walk around town a lot, and car drivers are idiots when it comes to yielding to pedestrians. That BRIGHT FLASH mode is at least somewhat useful on nearly every walk I take at night.


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## mcnair55 (Mar 17, 2016)

Just been looking through the various UK sites I use and as I cannot resist a bargain going to add another Led Lenser to the collection today, will collect it from the shop this afternoon plus I am going to add that little aaa clicky by Fenix by on-line purchase.


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## ven (Mar 17, 2016)

ckeilah - Ideally invest in some AA Sanyo eneloops , these will pay for them selves within a couple of charges and you will get the best out of your light.


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## mcnair55 (Mar 17, 2016)

ven said:


> ckeilah - Ideally invest in some AA Sanyo eneloops , these will pay for them selves within a couple of charges and you will get the best out of your light.



Funny you saying that just ordered some black Fujitsu AA from 7day on an offer, sound good.


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## desert.snake (Jul 31, 2017)

Hello everybody!
I have slightly different impressions of what many describe here.
My first flashlight was Era LED 5
(http://www.eraworld.ru/ru/catalog/a...a-5khled-akku-nimh-kart-40801280_1152912.html)
This is a great flashlight, it gives out in my opinion about 10-15 lumens,
light diffused, when it runs out of charge, I can plug it into the outlet and it will charge for 2-3 hours!
It was made in the likeness of an old flashlight from my childhood "Elektronika V6-03
(http://old-lighting.ru/ru/content/elektronika-v6-03).

I enjoyed using it while in the roadside stall I bought a Chinese flashlight ShuangKsiong 3800W.
It has a reflector, built-in recharging and a bright LED!!
But I was satisfied with only the first six months. The beam is very focused, it shines at 50 meters
with a bright spot, the light around the bright center is almost absent.

Then I climbed the knife forum (I collect knives) and read that people praise the products Surefire.
I bought Fury 15/500 lumens and was satisfied for a while until he realized that I need
more than 2 modes. While I was reading various forums, I managed to buy G2, Z2, 6P,
E2D 200/5 lumens, E1B 110/5, sell the Fury and take drop-in Malkoff M61WL and sell it 



And then I had to buy cheap electric lamps for a team of electricians for 1.5 dollars
on aliexpress, these lanterns I liked very much with their light, it is very uniform in area,
only, they had 2 drawbacks - the plastic did not smell well, they can easily be turned on
spontaneously in a bag with tools (https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Supe...ts-Camping-Fishing-Head-Lamp/32666621880.html)

I started looking for information on the lanterns with such regulation of the distribution of the light flux.
It so happened that in the nearest store in my city I found a model that had good reviews,
It was Fenix FD40. I was impressed by the ability to adjust the light, brightness, range,
but as a light, more precisely in its pleasantness for my eyes, he's worse than mine E2D 200/5.

Plus he has a slippery head, you can not change the focus quickly (ah, if there was a rougher surface)
and that I was completely upset - terrible control!!
When I'm in the middle mode and I need to go into weak mode
(and the battery is already slightly exhausted)
I just have to very fast, very fast push the button to skip a strong mode and get into a weak one,
If I do it slowly - I go into strong mode and the automation throws me back into the middle..

So I presented FD40 to my friend and I found information about Led Lenser.
I liked the MT series - can reprogram the order of switching on the brightness of light,
3 modes with suitable brightness values for me, In the model MT10 installed pocket clip,
battery 18650 and built-in charging, it is given an excellent guarantee 5 years 

I am completely satisfied with MT10 and I can not be upset by the statements of many people here
that it is not the best light. On the totality of characteristics it is the best.

As for water resistance - for this I have E1B and E2D.
As for the bluish hue in the middle of the spot and the yellowish hue on the edge - this is in the widest
mode, which is not intended for movement. In my opinion, the widest mode is designed to work,
to illuminate the workplace, since it does not blind and the lighting is uniform.
To move along the paths at night, it is better to move the head of the flashlight to the middle
position - so more familiar to the human eye with its peculiarities of tunnel perception.
To look into the distance is a narrow beam. He beats 50 meters further than my E2D.
The statements about 1000 lumens are similar to the truth.

My opinion is a wonderful light!

One funny moment - the dimensions of the case, its diameter, head dimensions,
and other sizes almost coincide with the size of my G2 and 6P.
For those who are used to holding 6P, G2 and other Surefire,
Led Lenser MT10 will be as good to lie in hand :laughing:


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## desert.snake (Aug 1, 2017)

Today, when I looked at the included MT10 through the lens of the digital apparatus,
I saw what I did not expect to see - PWM flicker.
This is cool, then the flashlight will keep a good brightness for a long time.


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## Fireclaw18 (Aug 1, 2017)

desert.snake said:


> Today, when I looked at the included MT10 through the lens of the digital apparatus,
> I saw what I did not expect to see - PWM flicker.
> This is cool, then the flashlight will keep a good brightness for a long time.


There are two methods of controlling LED brightness in flashlights:

*PWM* - the LED is run at max power, but is strobed on and off to produce the effect of an intermediate mode or low mode. 
PWM has the advantage that the tint stays the same at all power settings. 
The downside is LEDs are more efficient when run at lower current. Since with PWM the LED is actually run at high current all the time, the net effect is runtime below max power will not be as long as light with current control.

Also if the PWM pulses too slowly it is visually noticeable and can be unpleasant to look at. For this reason slow PWM is generally conisdered to be the worst method of regulating lower modes in an LED flashlight. Fast PWM is PWM that pulses at a high enough rate to not be visually noticeable. It can look as smooth as current control, but without the tint shift or extra efficiency. If a light is using PWM always look for fast PWM

*
Current Control* - the driver supplies less power to the LED in lower mods. This is the most efficient kind of LED light giving the longest runtimes at low power, but the tint may shift dramatically at lower power settings.

*Bottom line*: LED Lenser's use of slow PWM is a bad sign. It basically means the light is using the most dated and least effective method of regulating brightness in lower power settings.


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## dc38 (Aug 1, 2017)

Fireclaw18 said:


> There are two methods of controlling LED brightness in flashlights:
> 
> *PWM* - the LED is run at max power, but is strobed on and off to produce the effect of an intermediate mode or low mode.
> PWM has the advantage that the tint stays the same at all power settings.
> ...



Fireclaw...you forgot the cheapest one...resistors and switches


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## CelticCross74 (Aug 2, 2017)

I just checked over the LED Lenser site. They have a brand new "Outdoor Series" of lights. But they still use the same Advanced Focusing System(the optic plus a reflector). Not to long ago I bit the bullet and bought the way to expensive 600 lumen 4xAA model(I cannot remember the model number. MX10 or something like that). I really like the looks of the light and having owned many Coast lights got fooled by LED Lensers slick AFS advertising. I thought the beam out of it was going to be stellar. I got the light put 4 fresh Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA's in it and was just....pissed off at how awful the beam was. I know Coast and LED Lenser split a couple of years ago when Leatherman bought the Coast brand. I mean the beam out of it was a flat out abortion. I sent it right back at a $20 "re-stocking" fee loss. The AFS system is awful. My optic only non reflector Coast lights all have much better beams and are literally nearly a quarter the price of an equal output push/pull LED Lenser light....


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## desert.snake (Aug 2, 2017)

Fireclaw18 said:


> LED Lenser's use of slow PWM is a bad sign.



Here I do not agree. It's not like slow PWM, since my eyes do not see flicker, I see flicker only through the camera lens.
The only place where I see a flickering with no-armed eyes - is my Surefire E1B and E2D,
but that does not make them bad lights.


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## dc38 (Aug 3, 2017)

desert.snake said:


> Here I do not agree. It's not like slow PWM, since my eyes do not see flicker, I see flicker only through the camera lens.
> The only place where I see a flickering with no-armed eyes - is my Surefire E1B and E2D,
> but that does not make them bad lights.



It's not that you may notice the flicker when stationary...try moving the beam around. You'll see it.


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## bykfixer (Aug 3, 2017)

My only qualm with the fabled 'ledlenser' is not really LED Lensers doing...
Fakes.

In order to avoid acquiring a fake one must pay full retail at one of the few authorized sellers. When buying at those discount outlets like eBay or Amazon there's a real good chance you end up with a fake. Worse, the fakes are now priced like the genuine articles as it became obvious the half priced ones were fakes. To add to the issue the fakes look pretty dawg gone close to the real thing. 
Trouble is the fakes are made with parts about as quality as reject parts from 'as seen on tv' junk. 

At first the fakes were pretty good performers as if they were genuine, but that is no longer the case.


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## wjv (Aug 4, 2017)

There is a Led-Lenser store in the Portland area (near the Ikea on Airport way).

I wandered through there one day out of curiosity and noticed that many of their lights seemed to have only 2 modes. Something low like 10-45, and then the high mode which was something like 500-1,000 lumens. I rarely need the 500+ setting on my lights, so having more lower modes to choose from is important to me. None of them seemed to have any kind of extra low (3 lumen or less) mode which I tend to use a lot around the house. 

They did have a nice selection of holsters at REALLY inexpensive prices. So next time I need a new holster or two I know where I'll go to buy them.


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## Ozythemandias (Aug 4, 2017)

A lot of talk in this thread regarding Ledlenser owning the patant on zoomie so I looked it up. I'm no patent lawyer but it seems to me they only own a patent on zoomies using their specific lens, you can still make whatever you want with an aspherical zoomie like the popular china lights.


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