# XR-E Q5, XR-E R2 and MC-E Comparisons?



## mpireone (Feb 24, 2009)

With each emitter having it's own best circuit board to run on, which emitter is the best XR-E Q5, XR-E R2 or MC-E?


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## yellow (Feb 24, 2009)

brightness, current consumption, throw/flood, ...
what is "best" for You?

the Q5 and R2 are the same led, with the R2 being the better bin, so - when everything else is the same - the R2 is "better"

the MC-E on the other hand is FOUR of these led in a single package.
pos: more brightness but almost no size increase (of head)
neg: 
1st: four times the current needed
2nd: four times the heat produced
3rd: much wider beam and pretty nothing to fight that
4th: other driver needed, next to impossible to drive it with full power from a single cell 
(which imho makes no sense, but there are ppl whoe want that small package and dont care for 30 mins runtime)


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## znomit (Feb 24, 2009)

The Q5 is the best as it is the cheapest.

The MC-E is the best, as it is the brightest.

The R2 is the best, as it is the most efficient.

What is your application?


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## steve6690 (Feb 24, 2009)

....is the 64000 dollar question. Deciding which is best for your application is the major part of the battle. And the fun part


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## mpireone (Feb 24, 2009)

znomit said:


> The Q5 is the best as it is the cheapest.
> 
> The MC-E is the best, as it is the brightest.
> 
> ...




I'm looking for throw with bright spill with hopefully at least 2+ hrs runtime.


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## mpireone (Feb 24, 2009)

yellow said:


> brightness, current consumption, throw/flood, ...
> what is "best" for You?
> 
> the Q5 and R2 are the same led, with the R2 being the better bin, so - when everything else is the same - the R2 is "better"
> ...




I want to build a Dereelight MC-E type of torch with decent runtime (2hrs+). Just wondering which emitter and circuit board is best to build upon?


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## ginaz (Feb 24, 2009)

r2 for you then


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## mpireone (Feb 24, 2009)

ginaz said:


> r2 for you then



What 1 mode circuit board would be good to build around that?


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## R33E8 (Feb 25, 2009)

Actually, shouldn't the MC-E be more efficient than an r2 at the same drive levels? (350mA parallel on the MC-E vs 350mA r2).. The MC-E would be the best all around with the best efficiency at lower drive levels and much brighter maximum brightness.. I don't know how it deals with throw and stuff though..


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## Gunner12 (Feb 25, 2009)

It takes a much larger reflector to make the MC-E have the same beam pattern as the XR-E R2(MC-E has 4x emitting area vs R2). The MC-E(depending on bin) at the same drive current should be more efficient then the R2 though.

Do you want to build a light like the Dereelight DBS with good throw and spill? Then why not just get the DBS with a single mode pill?

Well, you won't have the experience of building a light though.


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## Superdave (Feb 25, 2009)

a MC-E in 4P driven at 800mA is still roughly 100 lumens brighter than a Q5 @ 800mA. I've tested both in my rig, there is a pretty big difference. 

with the MC-E driven at 3A it's like 6x brighter than a Q5. That's running it pretty hard though. :duh2:


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## mpireone (Feb 25, 2009)

Gunner12 said:


> It takes a much larger reflector to make the MC-E have the same beam pattern as the XR-E R2(MC-E has 4x emitting area vs R2). The MC-E(depending on bin) at the same drive current should be more efficient then the R2 though.
> 
> Do you want to build a light like the Dereelight DBS with good throw and spill? Then why not just get the DBS with a single mode pill?
> 
> Well, you won't have the experience of building a light though.




Yes, I am right on the edge of buying a DBS!! But yes, I'd like to meddle in TRYING to build a torch. Don't know quite what I'm doing, especially with the technical aspect of the NUMBERS as far as the mA's and stuff. 
Just want to get the best emitter for me with the right driver.


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## mpireone (Feb 25, 2009)

Superdave said:


> a MC-E in 4P driven at 800mA is still roughly 100 lumens brighter than a Q5 @ 800mA. I've tested both in my rig, there is a pretty big difference.
> 
> with the MC-E driven at 3A it's like 6x brighter than a Q5. That's running it pretty hard though. :duh2:




Don't mean to sound like a total novice but what's "4P?"

Also, there's all these damn multi-mode drivers, is there ANY way to tweak the driver to make it into a single mode? Don't need SOS or low, I just want to light up the torch! I have a 3-mode light and I'm OVER it!!!!


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## Superdave (Feb 25, 2009)

mpireone said:


> Don't mean to sound like a total novice but what's "4P?"
> 
> Also, there's all these damn multi-mode drivers, is there ANY way to tweak the driver to make it into a single mode? Don't need SOS or low, I just want to light up the torch! I have a 3-mode light and I'm OVER it!!!!



all 4 dies in parallel. You can run it in several different configurations, 4P seems to be the most common, however 2S-2P seems to pop up sometimes as well.


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## Marduke (Feb 26, 2009)

mpireone said:


> Also, there's all these damn multi-mode drivers, is there ANY way to tweak the driver to make it into a single mode? Don't need SOS or low, I just want to light up the torch! I have a 3-mode light and I'm OVER it!!!!



Sounds like you have only used a cheap DX multi-mode driver. A well designed light with a well designed UI is a pleasure to use, multiple modes and all.


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## mpireone (Feb 26, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Sounds like you have only used a cheap DX multi-mode driver. A well designed light with a well designed UI is a pleasure to use, multiple modes and all.



Yep, I have a cheap Romisen 3 mode [email protected]%, but I also have a multi-mode Tiablo A6 which is OK just as long as you give it a good second or two between ON and OFF's. I'd rather not have to tinker with the button, I just want "ON" 

FYI - Although in a different class of bulbs, the little A6 just about kept up side-by-side with the Surefire M4, as far as flood and throw. That little thing packs a punch. Don't have the A9 but I'm sure it'll blow the M4 away.


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## yellow (Feb 26, 2009)

no way a mce (4p) @ 800 can give "100 lumen" more than an XR-E @ 800
thats *1/3 more*!
impossible!


imho there must have been some error with the setups ...


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## Superdave (Feb 26, 2009)

yellow said:


> no way a mce (4p) @ 800 can give "100 lumen" more than an XR-E @ 800
> thats *1/3 more*!
> impossible!
> 
> ...


 

MC-E 4P @ 800mA in a Z3, 6120 lux in my rig, which is around 227 Lumens
Cree Q5 800mA dropin in a Z3, 3600 lux which is roughly 133 Lumens

both done on fresh cr123's. The luxmeter don't lie


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## steve6690 (Feb 26, 2009)

Superdave said:


> a MC-E in 4P driven at 800mA is still roughly 100 lumens brighter than a Q5 @ 800mA. I've tested both in my rig, there is a pretty big difference.
> 
> with the MC-E driven at 3A it's like 6x brighter than a Q5. *That's running it pretty hard though. :duh2:*



Is 3A running it hard ? It's only 750ma per die.. I've had mine (4s) running at 1A per die for around 5 minutes. Needs a good heatsink though. I'm considering running it at 1A per die permanently in the dive light I'm building...


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## znomit (Feb 26, 2009)

Superdave said:


> MC-E 4P @ 800mA in a Z3, 6120 lux in my rig, which is around 227 Lumens
> Cree Q5 800mA dropin in a Z3, 3600 lux which is roughly 133 Lumens
> 
> both done on fresh cr123's. The luxmeter don't lie



Thats a poor Q5, should be up over 200lm at 800mA.

How do you convert lux to lumens?


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## Gunner12 (Feb 26, 2009)

DX also has some single mode drivers. Look in the DIY section.

If you have a Maglite then you can start with modding that(check here for a start).


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## Superdave (Feb 26, 2009)

znomit said:


> Thats a poor Q5, should be up over 200lm at 800mA.
> 
> How do you convert lux to lumens?


 

At the emitter i'm sure it is over 200, with the losses from the reflector, lense and the crenelated bezel it makes sence. 


we used Lux/27. That gets us very close to actual IS measurements posted by other members. We got dead on 80lm for a stock 6PDL which was measured at 83lm in a real sphere. 

there is a link to the spreadsheet in my thread "fun at work" with some of the results.


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## ledstein (Mar 2, 2009)

As stated by others: The R2 and Q5 are the same LED, just a different Bin. If you have the possibility to get your hands on R2 Binning and are willing to pay the cost: Do it. But be carefull: R2 is prelimary. There aint any mass production. Many shops sell other Bins and just say its R2.
MCE is great if you want highest brightness. You can easily reach 400lm+ at very high efficiency. If you need brightness of >150lm and don't have space for multiple XRE it's the best choice.


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