# Rayovac Hybrid Rechargeable NiMH



## lumenal (Oct 26, 2006)

Has anyone tried these? I bought a couple 4-packs at Wal*Mart today. They are READY TO USE OUT OF THE PACKAGE, rechargeable NiMH, that, according to the packaging, have a self-discharge rate of only 10% every 3 months,( last 4 times longer than other rechargeables.)

Prices: 4 AA 2100 mAh $8.97
4 AAA 800 mAh $8.97

They weren't listed on the website, though. Any thoughts on these?


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## Canuke (Oct 27, 2006)

They sound like Rayovac's answer to Sanyo Eneloops -- but significantly cheaper.

If more brands using this technology come out, Silverfox might have to do another shootout -- but the "self-discharge" test might take forever.

Or maybe not? Tell me whether this idea might be a useful way to speed up self-discharge tests:

Charge the test cells up and do the standard discharge tests on them to obtain full capacity.

Then, charge them up and let them sit at room temps for two months or so, long enough for there to be a significant self-discharge.

At the end of the waiting period, discharge them fully, subtract this measured capacity from "hot off the charger" to derive the self-discharge rate over two months.

This assumes linearity of self-discharge, which might not be the case :shrug:


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## SilverFox (Oct 27, 2006)

Hello Canuke,

Sorry, I don't think there is a way to speed up long term self discharge testing...

The 6 month results from the Eneloop cells are due toward the end of January. We will see how well they do.

Tom


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## macdude22 (Nov 4, 2006)

I've now purchased a few packs of these to stick in some lesser used items, mostly flashlights and clocks. I initially was adverse to the idea of their lesser capacity but then I took an inventory of all my items and realized how many things I have that arn't used that often. Stuff like my Camera's, controllers, frequently used lights, GPS, etc... I will likely keep using high capacty NiMH but these seem like a great choice for these other lesser used items.


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## Handlobraesing (Nov 4, 2006)

I withdraw what I said earlier. I bought a set of AA and the negative contact shape is obviously not that of eneloop. 

Anyways, out of package, discharge at 0.5A yielded approximately 1800mAh capacity. Claimed capacity is 2100mAh. Not too impressive considering it couldn't have been sitting around that long as it has just come out. 

Another thing is the insulation on negative terminal. It is flush with the metal and doesn't wrap around the edge like many other rechageables, so this maybe a short circuit hazard in many applications. 




Handlobraesing said:


> Ya know. I think they're actually Sanyo eneloop OEM. Sanyo and Rayovac are partners. They jointly developed the 15 minute IC-3 technology utilizing internal pressure sensing.
> 
> http://wistechnology.com/article.php?id=786


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## macdude22 (Nov 4, 2006)

> Sanyo will also manufacture the new rechargeable batteries for Rayovac.



This was in talking about the IC3 cells. So it's entirely plausible that Sanyo is manufacturing the Hybrid cells.

I'm going to toss 9 of the 12 I got today on a charge/discharge/charge cycle on my Maha (1A) and then see how long the 9 will last in my Stanley 9AA tripodhonky light.


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## MorePower (Nov 4, 2006)

Rayovac Hybrid cells are not made by Sanyo. It's a similar technology to what is used for the Eneloop cells, but developed jointly by Matsushita and Yuasa.

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasiaarchivedetail/003046


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## macdude22 (Nov 5, 2006)

I just noticed but my hybrid cells have EDW-Y stamped on the side. Does this mean anything to any one?


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## Lite_me (Nov 5, 2006)

I picked up 2 AA and 2 AAA's that came with a charger of the Rayovac Hybrids, just to play with. (Wal*Mart - it was $11 something) The AA's are stamped EDS-Y and the AAA's are EDV-Y. ? Probably some kind of lot #. 
All 4 read 1.31v out of the box.


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## Handlobraesing (Nov 5, 2006)

Local Wal-Mart here has the AAA four pack and 2AA+2AAA+charger combo pack. No luck on 4AA.


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## Brighteyez (Nov 5, 2006)

Don't know if the Rayovac Hybrids are made by any of the Japanese companies named. The Rayovac Hybrids are manufactured in China, not in Japan like the Eneloops. And it looks like Matsushita is planning on releasing batteries that are produced under their version of this technology under their Panasonic brand in Q1 of next year.



MorePower said:


> Rayovac Hybrid cells are not made by Sanyo. It's a similar technology to what is used for the Eneloop cells, but developed jointly by Matsushita and Yuasa.
> 
> http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasiaarchivedetail/003046


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## Phlack (Nov 6, 2006)

Where in Walmart did you find these? (I realize all stores are different) The batteries used to be in the section with the digital cameras and video games, but they renovated it, and now I can't find them. I asked one guy, and just got a blank stare.

-Mike


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## Brighteyez (Nov 6, 2006)

In the Electronics with the other rechargeable batteries. (probably the same section that you're looking in.) Wal*Mart stores don't all get stock at the same time, some stores may not even carry some items, or may not carry them until much later than the more robust stores. 

Getting blank stares from store clerks (associates) is pretty common these days in any retail store. It's simply a matter of getting what you pay for, and since consumers don't want to pay for service and just expect it, the stores don't see any reason to pay the extra dollars for people who might be knowledgeable or even care.



Phlack said:


> Where in Walmart did you find these? (I realize all stores are different) The batteries used to be in the section with the digital cameras and video games, but they renovated it, and now I can't find them. I asked one guy, and just got a blank stare.
> 
> -Mike


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## macdude22 (Nov 6, 2006)

Photo Center. In all the Marts I've been to thats the primary location of rechargable equipment. I wouldn't put it past them to stick them say next to dog food or something. Cat litter in my mart is next to the produce......


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## Brighteyez (Nov 6, 2006)

Well ... some of the stores do have battery kiosks in the aisle with the sporting goods/auto supplies that may be situated near the dog food.

Kitty litter is clay, some produce is grown in clay based environments ... sounds like a fit to me :lolsign:



macdude22 said:


> I wouldn't put it past them to stick them say next to dog food or something. Cat litter in my mart is next to the produce......


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## macdude22 (Nov 6, 2006)

It's so simple, why didn't I think of that. Thank you WallMart for opening my eyes.


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## Handlobraesing (Nov 16, 2006)

Actually, I think it's the same as the Titanium Enduro. Same wrapper texture, same wrapper trimming, same positive side insulator material, same bottom shape. 

http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1131


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## thelightdude (Nov 16, 2006)

Handlobraesing said:


> Actually, I think it's the same as the Titanium Enduro. Same wrapper texture, same wrapper trimming, same positive side insulator material, same bottom shape.
> 
> http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1131



Excellent observation . That is exactly what my hybrids look like.


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## MorePower (Nov 16, 2006)

Handlobraesing said:


> Actually, I think it's the same as the Titanium Enduro. Same wrapper texture, same wrapper trimming, same positive side insulator material, same bottom shape.
> 
> http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1131




It's very likely that they are exactly the same cells. Cell label material doesn't really mean anything, but the insulator on the nubbin end, the shape of the can, and the same claimed capacity all point to manufacture by the same company. That company is most likely Yuasa-Delta in Guangdong, which also was the manufacturer of IC-3 cells for Rayovac.


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## stamat (Dec 5, 2006)

*Rayovac Hybrid AA - did I over-discharge it?*

I tried an AA in my Fenix L1T.
Out of the package the current was 730mA on High. I left it on High in a cool place. After 3 hours came back and noticed that the light was pretty dim. Interesting that my L1T would shut down automatically with alkalines, but did not with this NiMh.

I had pre-calculated that that at this current it would take about 2.6 hours to discharge 2100mAh. With the voltage dropping It should have taken a little longer than that.

After all this the voltage was 0.91V without load (and 0.7V when loaded in my RadioShack battery tester). 
Q: did I overdischarege it?

My Maha C401FS charger repeatedly refused to charge it on slow charge. I had to switch it to fast charge to get it accepted.

Can anyone offer an explanation of what happened?


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## SilverFox (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Rayovac Hybrid AA - did I over-discharge it?*

Hello Stamat,

Yes, you did over discharge it.

Your charger thought it was trying to charge an alkaline cell. Going to fast charge gave it enough to bring the voltage up high enough to get the recharge started.

Tom


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## Al (Dec 7, 2006)

Have a set of AAA Eneloops and a set of AAA Hybrids.
Both sets discharged to 1.00V and then charged for the same amount of time in a Ccrane 11\1\06 and then shelved.

Checked both sets using the Ccrane "battery analyzer" feature (ok, ok not hi-tech) 12/7/06.

Eneloops seem to be holding better than the Hybrids ...


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## lumenal (Dec 21, 2006)

Just a quick note to let anyone know that may be interested...

I occasionally browse the Rayovac website ( and Energizer, Duracell, etc.) and noticed that the Rayovac folks have updated their website to now include their new "Hybrid" rechargeable batteries...

Check it out if you want a little info on this new "Hybrid" technology.


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## Bomo (Dec 22, 2006)

I recently changed to the Rayovac hybrids after having problems with Energizer rechargeables. It seems the Energizers would always die when I wanted to use my digital camera camera. The Rayovacs have been doing fine and have yet to be on the charger. This is with a Canon A520 digital camera. My Maha 204W also would complain sometimes when trying to charge the energizers - the charging light would only flash rather than going into charge mode.


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## AndyTiedye (Dec 22, 2006)

Phlack said:


> I asked one guy, and just got a blank stare.



Blank stares are always in stock at Walmart.


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## coppertrail (Dec 22, 2006)

Here's a good article I found on Yahoo! Tech regarding the new new generation of rechargable batteries. 

I bought a set of Hybrids 2 weeks ago, charged them up, and put them in my cam last night. It displayed a full battery meter.


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## filkergem (Dec 22, 2006)

Does anyone know if one could use the Energizer 15-minute charger with these hybrids? That would be a great combination for my uses. If not (or if nobody knows), I will have to bring a slow charger along with the fast one - not a huge deal, but less ideal.


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## SilverFox (Dec 22, 2006)

Hello Filkergem,

I have used the 15 minute chargers with the Sanyo Eneloop cells without problems. I haven't tried the others, but there should not be any problems.

Keep in mind that the trade off for fast charging is reduced cycle life.

Tom


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## filkergem (Dec 22, 2006)

Thanks, Tom! That's great news for me. I am pretty sure I can stand the reduced cycle life. I'm thinking of this mostly for digital camera use, and we don't use the camera more than once a month on average. If 500 cycles become 250, I'll likely be just fine; if they become 25, I'll be unhappy.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 22, 2006)

I have a first generation Streamlight JR LUX that usually has one dead NimH after a while just sitting there.

I got 8 of the Hybrids a week or so ago, and I have two of them in that JR. We'll see!


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## wptski (Dec 23, 2006)

If low discharge rate technology is something just discovered, are all these posts above trying to state that several different manufactures all discovered it at the same time?? Seems like that would be a guarded secret and not something that they'd pass around for all to copy like these posts are suggesting. Just my opinion!


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## Phaserburn (Jan 5, 2007)

Seems to me that Sanyo developed this new technology, and that it has been copied by the Chinese company. If that is true, I would think the Eneloops might have better performance. The Rayovac/Enduros are cheaper, but not that much cheaper. I'm getting some Eneloops.


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## MorePower (Jan 5, 2007)

Phaserburn,

This time, it really isn't a case of a Chinese company simply copying existing technology. Matsushita (a Japanese company) worked with Yuasa-Delta (joint venture Chinese and Taiwanese company) to develop a similar, but different, chemical process to modify the materials used to make low self-discharge NiMH cells.

The main difference is a slightly lower self-discharge rate (claimed) for Eneloop cells, but a higher capacity (claimed) for the Rayovac cells.


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## not2bright (Jan 5, 2007)

The first batch of AA ROV Hybrid 2100 cell I discharged (1000mAh rate) and ran through the Break-In cycle on my MH-C9000 resulted in:

2126, 2124, 2135, and 2130 mAh

I am going to wait a for some time and run a discharge cycle and see how they come out.


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## EngrPaul (Jan 5, 2007)

This is the time of year when parents get sick of constantly buying batteries for their kids new Xmas toys, and they buy rechargeables. Basically the shelves in Wal*mart are bare in Jan/Feb. Even so, the only brands I've ever seen are Energizer and Duracell. I'll keep watching.


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## lumenal (Jan 7, 2007)

EngPaul - that is so true; I was in Wal*Mart this morning and couldn't believe that most of the rechargeable batterys were gone, compared to my last visit about 3 or 4 days ago.

There were a few AAA Hybrids, no AA Hybrids, and about 4 packs of Energizer 2500s, as well as a few random charger-battery combos. Empty peg after empty peg...


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## not2bright (Jan 7, 2007)

Today in my (St. Louis) Sunday paper there is a coupon in "coupon section" for $5 off either a pack of Hybrid batteries or the battery-charger combo.

This should make anyone on the fence take a try. At $3.97 a four pack ($8.97 - $5 coupon) you get a 2100 mAh cell with slow discharge for less than a $1 a cell.


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## SpeedEvil (Jan 7, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> Hello Canuke,
> 
> Sorry, I don't think there is a way to speed up long term self discharge testing...
> 
> ...



How well does increased storage temp work as an accellerant?
Is it reasonable to try keeping them at 45C, and seeing a 4 fold ish speedup?


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## SilverFox (Jan 7, 2007)

Hello SpeedEvil,

That might work, however it is very close to the end of January, so I will just wait it out.

If you would like to try elevated temperature storage, I would be interested in what you come up with.

Tom


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## EngrPaul (Jan 7, 2007)

I saw the hybrids at Wal*Mart yesterday. I think people are passing over them because they don't know what they are, or because there are no matching chargers for the batteries (at least at my Wal*Mart).


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 7, 2007)

After what I believe to be a minth or so, the two Hybrid AA that aren't in a light have 1.33V remaining.

Many of my regular NimH will show 1.38 down to 1.28 after a week or so.

Also after about a month, the two Hybrid in my Streamlight JR LUX (which has a tendency to have one dead cell after 2-3 weeks) is going strong at this point.

So up to this point I find them to be a pretty decent upgrade from the High mAh "regular" NimH.


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## lumenal (Jan 15, 2007)

I just noticed the Rayovac Hybrids are available at Shopco. There is a battery/charger combo with only 2 AA's included (unlike the 4 cell combo available at Wall*Mart) for around $11.97. 

There are $5 off coupons attached to the charger combo ( as long as you buy a package of cells along with the charger.) The local Wall*Mart had the same deal, and they went quickly.


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## Wangstang (Sep 29, 2007)

Any more thoughts a year down the road?

Wes


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## redfish (Sep 29, 2007)

They are still great cells, but with the wider availability of eneloops (at costco, etc), price competition (cheaper Kadaks at Wall Mart), they aren't so remarkable anymore. 

I personally like eneloops better because of slightly higher discharge voltage.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Sep 30, 2007)

I had two pair of the Hybrids act up by not powering my GPS for a whole day.

I think it was temperature related because I've never seen temps as high on my AC vent thermometer as that day!

I've never had anymore trouble with those two pair or any of my other Hybrid, Kodak or Eneloop cells.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Nov 7, 2007)

I bought a Hybrid Charger/Cell combo (part number PS32-4BW today at Walmart. It was under $10 and included a $5 mail in coupon on the front of the package. 
Is this a good charger for these cells? I bought it on a whim and didn't do any research first. I was going to use the AA cells in my L2T V.2 so the current shouldn't be do demanding.


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## Marduke (Nov 7, 2007)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> I bought a Hybrid Charger/Cell combo (part number PS32-4BW today at Walmart. It was under $10 and included a $5 mail in coupon on the front of the package.
> Is this a good charger for these cells? I bought it on a whim and didn't do any research first. I was going to use the AA cells in my L2T V.2 so the current shouldn't be do demanding.



Use the coupon, don't use the charger. It's a cheap timed charger that will eventually fry any cells.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm liking the Duracell 4 place charger with segmented indication of charging more every time I use it. I can't find anything to dis-like about the 4 place that came with my Eneloops either.

When I'm worried about different charge like using the GPS for extra hours I also use my C Crane a lot.

OH GEEZ! I just thought about a battery pack I had made with NimH for a battery drill. It had only been on the stupid charger for a week or so. It wasn't hot or anything when I took it out, and it seems to run the drill ok...

But it makes me sick to treat it that way!


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## lumenal (Nov 8, 2007)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> I bought a Hybrid Charger/Cell combo (part number PS32-4BW today at Walmart. It was under $10 and included a $5 mail in coupon on the front of the package.
> Is this a good charger for these cells? I bought it on a whim and didn't do any research first. I was going to use the AA cells in my L2T V.2 so the current shouldn't be do demanding.


 
I think most of us flashoholics that are "chargerholics" have purchased this Hybrid Charger/Cell combo. 

Its hard to resist at $9.99, including 2 AAs and 2 AAAs.

And like Marduke said, don't use the simple timer-based charger. (Much, anyways, if you can help it).

The batteries have held up well, that is, except I noticed *one* had vented a tiny amount of black residue, no more than a couple pinheads worth.

I called Rayovac Cust. Serv. and explained just that.

They simply said to recycle the suspect cell, which I did, and that they'd replace it.

And they completely took care of the situation.

Great customer service, Rayovac!! :twothumbs


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## hopkins (Nov 19, 2007)

.Ok. I put 2 Rayovac Hybrids into my Targus charger (see pic) and they topped
of in about 16 minutes.

As this charger does pulse charging think I'd need to use Calculus to figure
out how low they were when charging started.
Note they got a little warm.

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/12eric/?action=view&current=rayovachybrid.jpg


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## lumenal (Nov 20, 2007)

Hello hopkins - 

IIRC, the battery manufacturers charge the LSD cells before shipment, just not *completely *full.

Maybe 3/4 full?

Initial capacity could be an interesting problem to figure out, depending on your Targus charger's charge rate, etc.

Nice picture, did you get that Targus at Radio Shack?


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## hopkins (Nov 21, 2007)

thanks lumenal.
Got the Targus charger at Fry's Electronics and cracked the LCD cover
the same day by dropping it.
It won't charge damaged(?) Nimh cells - just blinks so I guess its fairly smart.

I use a Duracell CEF80NC charger for these, as I hate to throw them away, and can still get some use out of them for home projects.


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## not2bright (Dec 2, 2007)

FWIW, I purchased 12 sets of Hybrid AA's and 6 sets of AAA's back when the $5 off coupon was valid. 

These cells have a black spacer on top around the positive terminal.

Yesterday, I decided that I won't need more than 4 sets of AAA's and decided to exchange 2 packs of unopened AAA's for AA's. Wally World Customer Service was happy to exchange them, and sent me back to pick up two packs of the AA's to complete the exchange.

When I got back to the Electronics department I noticed that the AA pegs now have the older packs with the black spacer toward the back with newer packs in front with white spacers on top of the cells. :thinking:

The AAA's have a bit newer packaging but the new and old cells all look the same.

I currently have some just opened AA black spacers cells on a break in cycle on the C9000. When they are done I'll run a set of the new AA white spacer cells through for comparison and post the results here.


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 2, 2007)

Looking forward to your test.

Bill


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## Marduke (Dec 2, 2007)

Must have something to do with the "NEW!" print they have on the packaging. Probably just a color change...


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## not2bright (Dec 5, 2007)

The "newer" style white spacer top cells are a hair taller than the black spacer versions.

The white top cells I got tested out on the C9000 "break in" at:

2003 1990 2001 2022

The previous set of black top cells came off the same c9000 at:

2026 2040 2003 2035

I'm not sure there is much of a difference here other than a 1/16" spacer height.


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## not2bright (Dec 9, 2007)

A quick update and I will add pictures later.

I recently found that the "newer" white positive spacer on the Hybrid prevent them from making contact in some devices.

For one we have a baby mobile that plays sounds has 3 LED lights and rotating bears. This takes 4 AA cells. Between the two rows of two cells there are sliding plastic dividers that hold the back two cells in place. They have a "U" shape cut so you can load the cell in and the positive contact will meet up with the negative of the cell on top of it.

The white top Hybrids will not make contact in this arrangement. The fit is also tighter in some other devices.

I'll post some pics when I get a chance.


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## Black Rose (Apr 20, 2008)

Just took a set of 4 Hybrid AA (black top) cells of the Break-In cycle on my MH-C9000. Here are my results:

1996, 1998, 1993, and 2006 mAh


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## Mr Happy (Apr 20, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> Just took a set of 4 Hybrid AA (black top) cells of the Break-In cycle on my MH-C9000. Here are my results:
> 
> 1996, 1998, 1993, and 2006 mAh


That's not bad. Fair capacity and excellent consistency between cells.

A test that would be of interest is to discharge them at 1 amp and record the voltage readings on each cell after 500 mAh, 1000 mAh and 1500 mAh of discharge.


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## Black Rose (Apr 20, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> That's not bad. Fair capacity and excellent consistency between cells.


I was hoping that they'd all register above 2000 mAh...still not bad though, within 5% of stated capacity. 



> A test that would be of interest is to discharge them at 1 amp and record the voltage readings on each cell after 500 mAh, 1000 mAh and 1500 mAh of discharge.


That's one thing I haven't figured out yet with the C9000. The manual indicates the discharge current can be between 0.1A and 1.0A, but then uses mA to set the discharge rate. 

I'm assuming that 1.0A is 1000 mA.


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## Mr Happy (Apr 20, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> That's one thing I haven't figured out yet with the C9000. The manual indicates the discharge current can be between 0.1A and 1.0A, but then uses mAh to set the discharge rate.
> 
> I'm assuming that 1.0A is 1000 mAh.



'm' is the abbreviation for milli-, meaning one thousandth. So 1 A is 1000 mA, and 1 Ah is 1000 mAh. (Note the 'h' or absence of in each case.)

1 A x 1 hour = 1 Ah = 1000 mAh = 1000 mA x 1 hour.

The Maha shows mA as MA, which is not correct, but you have to allow the mistake. Strictly speaking 'M' is mega-, or million, so 1 MA is one mega-amp or 1,000,000 amps. Probably not something the C9000 can manage.

When you use the 'DISCHG' mode on the C9000 therefore, if you set the discharge current to 1000 MA it will be 1 amp. (It will actually be 0.9 amps, but we don't need to worry about that.)


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## Black Rose (Apr 20, 2008)

Thanks for the explanation on that. 

It's not the first time I;ve tossed that "h" in the wrong place.


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## Black Rose (Apr 22, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> A test that would be of interest is to discharge them at 1 amp and record the voltage readings on each cell after 500 mAh, 1000 mAh and 1500 mAh of discharge.


 
Ask and ye shall receive 


```
Cell      500 mAh          1000 mAh        1500 mAh
1          1.19v            1.17v            1.12v
2          1.19v            1.17v            1.12v
3          1.19v            1.18v            1.12v
4          1.19v            1.17v            1.12v
```
 
Reported capacity on the 20th was:
1996, 1998, 1993, and 2006 mAh

Reported capacity is now:
1870, 1881, 1876, and 1872 mAh


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Apr 22, 2008)

I didn't see any Hybrids last time I looked at Wallyworld...

Hope another good thing isn't gone.....


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## Black Rose (Apr 22, 2008)

I'm still finding a lot around here.

The supply of Eneloops at the Costco's around here is dwindling (less than a pallet left), so I'm splitting my LSD purchases between the Costco and Wal-mart.


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## warlord (Apr 22, 2008)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> I didn't see any Hybrids last time I looked at Wallyworld...
> 
> Hope another good thing isn't gone.....



I've only seen them around the photo area in one Walmart while another had them at the front checkouts too. That might explain things, although I've never seen eneloops at either.


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## Vikas Sontakke (Apr 22, 2008)

Is Energizer ever going to come up with LSD batteries? They are the only holdouts.

- Vikas


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## Mr Happy (Apr 23, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> Ask and ye shall receive



Good stuff. For comparison, I have just posted the results of a similar test on my "Hybriloop" cells, here. At some point I will do the same with some genuine Eneloops.


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## Black Rose (Apr 23, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Good stuff. For comparison, I have just posted the results of a similar test on my "Hybriloop" cells, here. At some point I will do the same with some genuine Eneloops.


Those Hybriloops have a nice consistent curve.

When I was monitoring the Hybrids, I was hoping to see another .02v dropoff at 1500 mAh, but it took a nasty .05v drop.

Still good cells, but really shows you have to pick the right cell for the right job.


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## MstrHnky (Apr 24, 2008)

for those of you who want these batteries and can't find them at wal-mart, try target.

i bought a charger, 2AA and 2AAA rayovac hybrid's for $9.99.


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## Black Rose (Apr 30, 2008)

Took a set of 4 Hybrid AAA cells of the Break-In cycle on my MH-C9000 this morning. Capacities reported were:

767, 775, 765, 772 mAh

Not as strong as my Eneloop AAAs, but still pretty good.


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## Muse (Apr 30, 2008)

I have 4 Hybrid AAA's and 4 Hybrid AA's. Had them since around August 2007, so around 8 months. I've been keeping records of the reported capacity by my La Crosse BC-900. I think I've always used the Discharge mode on that charger, meaning it first discharges each cell and then charges it. My stats for mah:

AAA's:

Cell1: (this cell, showing a marked decline in capacity, I'm pretty sure I ran a "Refresh" with the La Crosse charger after it showing 552 mah capacity)
1042
552
706
710

Cell2:
722
1048
1092

Cell3:
768
936
719
1050

Cell4:
763
1057
1032
- - - -
AA's:

Cell1:
I misplaced this cell, so I don't know

Cell2:
Also misplaced

Cell3:
2290
2410
2300

Cell4:
2310
2510
2260


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## Black Rose (Apr 30, 2008)

Wow, those numbers are all over the place.


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## Turbo DV8 (Apr 30, 2008)

Muse said:


> I have 4 Hybrid AAA's and 4 Hybrid AA's. Had them since around August 2007, so around 8 months. I've been keeping records of the reported capacity by my La Crosse BC-900. I think I've always used the Discharge mode on that charger, meaning it first discharges each cell and then charges it. My stats for mah:


 
Your BC-900 is going berserk. If not, at the very least, your figures are _not _the mAh figures obtained from the discharge cycle of a refresh. These look more like the mA that go "in" to the cell when you charge them, which is never what you get out of them. I have three of the BC-900's, 56 ROV Hybrid AAA cells, and 72 ROV Hybrid AA cells. On the discharge portion of a refresh on the BC-900, my AAA cells give up between 800-850 mAh, and the AA cells between 2110-2280 mAh. I don't see any possible way to eek 1092 mAh from a Hybrid AAA, or 2510 mAh from a Hybrid AA cell! The only time I have seen NiMH cells deliver drastically higher figures than rated was with the Duracell 1700 mAh cells, which delivered about 2140 mAh.


----------



## lumenal (May 1, 2008)

Muse - those are some wild numbers. :thinking:

FWIW - The original sets of AA and AAA Hybrids I purchased back in Oct. 2006 at the beginning of this thread are still going strong. (I'll have to check my records for number of cycles, but they have been in continual "action".)


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## shadowjk (May 1, 2008)

indeed, in Discharge mode the mAh figure displayed when the charger is done is the amount of juice that it put IN to the battery, which is not the number you're looking for.


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## SilverFox (May 1, 2008)

Hello Muse,

If those are the amounts of charge put into the cells, you have displayed a classic example of the chargers failure to terminate the charge.

If you happened to be using the 200 mA default charge rate, this even makes more sense.

We seem to have a lot of "ifs" involved in our speculation, so perhaps you could give us a little more information so we can get a better idea of what is going on.

Tom


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## LightObsession (Dec 30, 2008)

Are these still considered decent batteries? Or would you suggest others instead? These are what my local store sells.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 30, 2008)

Except for honest white Eneloops I would rather have Rayovac Hybrids than anything else I can get fairly easy such as Kodak.

For MOST uses Rayovacs will fit and work in the vast majority of lights.

Kodak won't fit in just anything....


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## Black Rose (Dec 30, 2008)

I've been using the Hybrids for about 9 months and they have performed very well in the devices I've used them in (Wii remotes, scanner, P-touch labeler).

I tend to put the Hybrids in devices that are used more often, so my Hybrids have seen more charge cycles than my fleet of Eneloops. 
After 9 months of use they are still performing very well and seem to be maintaining their capacity. 

I have my very first set of 4 AA cells undergoing a Refresh & Analyze cycle at the moment.


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## Black Rose (Dec 30, 2008)

The set of 4 AAs noted in my previous post were charged using the cycle mode on the C9000 that completed on Saturday the 27th. 
The batteries were put through 2 cycles using 1000 mA charge, 500 mA discharge rates.

I discharged them this afternoon at 500 mA before starting the R&A mode.
In the 3 days since they were charged, they've apparently lost just over 100 mAh capacity each.

I'm not sure if the cycle mode and R&A modes on the C9000 report capacity the same way, but I think I may have a problem here. 
I'll have a better idea tomorrow.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 30, 2008)

I got 8 more Kodaks the other day hoping to be all Kodak in my GPS freeing up all my Hybrids for flashlight use.


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## Black Rose (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm beginning to think that one of my sets of 4 Rayovac Hybrid AAs may be starting to lose their LSD capabilities.

I noticed that when I charge them with the C9000's Refresh & Analyze or Cycle modes, the reported capacity was starting to drop a little bit (70 - 80 mAh per cell over 9 months of usage).

I charged them 2 weeks ago and logged the reported capacity. 
I discharged them last night so I could do a break-in cycle on them today. They've lost about 8% of their capacity in 2 weeks.

This particular set of 4 has only been used in Wii remotes until about 2 bars on the remote, and only charged on the C9000 @ 1000 mA, so not extreme usage or abuse.


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## Black Rose (Jan 11, 2009)

I'll just continue my conversation with myself 

A break-in on my first set of 4 Rayovac Hybrid cells completed last night.

When I performed a break-in on them when I bought them in April 2008, the reported capacities were:
1996, 1998, 1993, and 2006 mAh

After 9 months of usage in Wii remotes and only being charged/maintained using the Maha C9000 the same set of 4 cells now reports:
1937, 1952, 1930, and 1946 mAh

so they have lost a small amount of capacity.

My concern about the cells losing their LSD capability is not valid. 
I was rereading this thread and noticed in my post from April 22, 2008 that the cells exhibited the same behavior when new as they do now.


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## Mr Happy (Jan 11, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> I'll just continue my conversation with myself


I for one am reading with interest. I just don't have anything useful to add.


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## 45/70 (Jan 11, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> I'll just continue my conversation with myself



That's the only way to carry on an intelligent conversation anyway! The rest of us are just awe stricken!

Seriously, I for one don't own any ROV Hybrids. I am following along, just the same...... in awe. 

Dave


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## Turbo DV8 (Jan 11, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> I'll just continue my conversation with myself


 
:sleepy::sleepy:


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## mandrake (Jan 11, 2009)

I too am listening. I just bought 16 of the Titanium AA cells. Is it still the thought that the Titanium LSD cells are the same as the ROV AAs...and that they should perform the same?

Phil


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## Black Rose (Jan 11, 2009)

Caveat: What follow below is simply my own speculation and observations based on the samples of the two types of batteries.

The best way to describe the Titanium Enduro LSD AA cells versus the Rayovac Hybrids is "similar but different". 
I highly doubt that the Titaniums use the exact same formulation as the Rayovac Hybrids. However, I have noticed that the Titaniums and the Hybrids exhibit almost identical early self discharge rates.

Based on my own results as well as Eugene's, it appears that the Titaniums do not get the same kind of forming charge that the Hybrids do before being shipped from the factory, so you need to run them through several cycles before they start performing well capacity-wise. 

As for performance compared to the Hybrids, it's too early for me to tell, as I only recently moved the Titanium LSD cells into a role previously held by the Hybrids.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Very basically my use for LSD NimH is my GPS which uses two at a time.

Any of my LSD be they Hybrid, PreCharged or Eneloop will run the GPS from 8AM to 6PM no sweat!

I use the Hybrids in a few of my Hotwires because I don't use them often but like them to work when I do. So far so good and some of my Hybrids are from late '07.


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## mandrake (Jan 13, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Caveat: What follow below is simply my own speculation and observations based on the samples of the two types of batteries.
> 
> As for performance compared to the Hybrids, it's too early for me to tell, as I only recently moved the Titanium LSD cells into a role previously held by the Hybrids.


 
When you have enough information to draw any conclusiond, I would be very interested to hear what you think.
I will be doing som of my own testing once I get the Titanium cells. I will see if I can't post my findings as well.
Phil


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## Black Rose (Jan 14, 2009)

Will do.

The one thing I am still curious about is whether my usage of this particular set of Hybrids that are now showing a slight capacity loss (approx. 60 mAh) is the result of something I did or if it's just "wear and tear".

These 4 cells were used in pairs in two Wii remotes, not the Uniden scanner as previously posted (see Bullzeybill's post below for original text). 
The batteries were then charged at 1000 mA. 

This particular set of batteries has at most 25 cycles on them.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 14, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Will do.
> 
> The one thing I am still curious about is whether my usage of this particular set of Hybrids that are now showing a slight capacity loss (approx. 60 mAh) is the result of something I did or if it's just "wear and tear".
> 
> ...



What was the voltage on the Hybrids when the scanner gave the low battery warning. The reading before you put them in the charger. Important info.

Bill


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## Black Rose (Jan 14, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> What was the voltage on the Hybrids when the scanner gave the low battery warning.


I don't know, I didn't have my DMM with me at the airport. 
The scanner has a NiMh and Alkaline switch, and it is set to NiMh.



> The reading before you put them in the charger.


I didn't check the voltage on them before charging them.


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## mandrake (Jan 17, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Caveat: What follow below is simply my own speculation and observations based on the samples of the two types of batteries.
> 
> The best way to describe the Titanium Enduro LSD AA cells versus the Rayovac Hybrids is "similar but different".
> Based on my own results as well as Eugene's, it appears that the Titaniums do not get the same kind of forming charge that the Hybrids do before being shipped from the factory, so you need to run them through several cycles before they start performing well capacity-wise.


 
Well I got 16 of the Titanium AA cells. So far I am not very impressed. I ran a break in cycle on my MAHA 9000. the capacities were not very good versus the specs.
they were 1851, 1557, 1599, and 1423 MAh respectively.
I then ran a discharge cycle at 700 MAh.
The results were 1898, 1631, 1720, and 1562, MAh. 

I am not sure why the numbers are different, and a bit better, but they still are disappointing. I am running another break in cycle on the four cells now. I started about an hour after the discharge cycle. I sure hope they do come up some. 

Edit. I ran another Break in cycle. The results are as follows:

1946,1858. 1759, 1783 MAh. They have come up significantly. It would seem as though the theory that they save money on these by not carefull and fully forming them could be correct. 
I am not sure what "usable" means in this context. Yes they were usable out of the box. Given the time and electricity required to get these somewhere close to specs, I would think that buying the real deal, like the Eneloops or other higher end batteries might be better (more efficient, more satisfying). It has taken me about five days to make four batteries come somewhat close to specs. I have twelve more that likely will need the same process. Hmmmm. I suppose that some may say, "just use them and recharge them, you will get to the same place eventually AND get more usable cycles out of them". This is true, I am not sure if I have the patience.
Will keep you folks posted. I am now running a refresh cycle on the C9000.

Phil


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## Black Rose (Jan 18, 2009)

With my Titaniums, I only did 1 break-in, followed by 15 or so runs of the cycle mode.

In Eugene's thread, it was surmised that for lower cost cells such as the Titaniums don't get the same treatment as the name brand cells do before they leave the factory. As a result, it requires more work by the purchaser to bring them up to spec.

When I first got mine, I was not overly impressed with them either, but after a bit of work they are now what I consider to be usable.


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## mandrake (Jan 19, 2009)

See my revised post above.
#95

Phil


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## Black Rose (Jan 20, 2009)

mandrake said:


> I am not sure what "usable" means in this context. Yes they were usable out of the box.


To me usable means having their capacities close to the labeled capacity following an initial break-in cycle.

I would have preferred that these cells acted more like my Eneloops or Hybrids out of the box, instead of 15+ cycles later.


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## mandrake (Jan 20, 2009)

mandrake
1946 said:


> After a refresh
> 1998, 1955, 1855, 1884 MAh.
> 
> Well they are coming up. Slowly and painfully, but they are coming up. Running one more refresh on these for then on the the other 12. If I can get them all up in the 1900 MAh range that will be close to what I got out of most of my Eneloops... out of the box. From this experience it sure looks like they leave the forming up to the end user!
> ...


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## Mr Happy (Jan 20, 2009)

mandrake said:


> Well they are coming up. Slowly and painfully, but they are coming up. Running one more refresh on these for then on the the other 12. If I can get them all up in the 1900 MAh range that will be close to what I got out of most of my Eneloops... out of the box.


I note the subject of this thread is the Rayovac Hybrid but some of these posts are referring to the Titanium LSD cells. It might be good to make note of that specifically in the posts in case people land in the middle of the thread from a search and get confused about what is being described.

As far as is known, the Rayovac cells do not suffer from this problem of needing several cycles to reach label capacity after purchase.


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## Black Rose (Jan 20, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> As far as is known, the Rayovac cells do not suffer from this problem of needing several cycles to reach label capacity after purchase.


That is correct. 

I don't have this problem with any of my Rayovac Hybrids.

Maybe we should get a mod to move the Titanium posts in this thread over to Eugene's thread, since that one is about the Titanium cells.


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## mandrake (Jan 23, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> That is correct.
> 
> I don't have this problem with any of my Rayovac Hybrids.
> 
> Maybe we should get a mod to move the Titanium posts in this thread over to Eugene's thread, since that one is about the Titanium cells.


 
Where is Eugene's thread??

I would be happy to move my posts concerning the Titanium cells there, though I think it would be pretty clear for anyone actually reading the information as to what is being discussed. Actually the search engine is how I found this thread while looking for a discussion of the Titanium cells.

Phil


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## Black Rose (Jan 23, 2009)

mandrake said:


> Where is Eugene's thread??


I had linked to a post in it in post #89 in this thread.

The thread is here.


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## mandrake (Jan 23, 2009)

Ok I got it. Actually I had copied my data over there last night.

Phil


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 23, 2009)

I still LIKE and use my Rayovacs!

I know nothing of Titaniums.


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## Black Rose (Apr 5, 2009)

Since no one in North America has seen the fabled Eneloop C and D cells yet, I wonder if these will appease the masses for now?







There was also a peg for Hybrid C cells, but they were sold out.

No capacity information was printed on the cells that I could see.


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 5, 2009)

FWIW I have 8 Rayovac hybrids which are two years old. They were used for 6 months in CD/DVD players,flashlights etc. and then spent 1-1/2 years in a RC transmitter where they were heaviy used.. Recently I replaced them with Sanyo Eneloops and I also cycled the 8 cell Hybrid pack and an Enoloop 8 cell and ran both 1A and 250 mAh discharge test on one of my CBAIIs. There was no difference in performance.


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## snakebite (Apr 5, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Since no one in North America has seen the fabled Eneloop C and D cells yet, I wonder if these will appease the masses for now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it would be interesting to get a pack of those to not only check capacity but to also see if they are real cells or a sub c in a plastic shell.
hmm lsd sub c cells?


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## gSPIN (Apr 6, 2009)

at that price of a little over 5 buck per cell it's guaranteed that they're definitely *not* real full D capacity.
whether it's subC is a close call but would wager it's not either.
my bet is it's a sleeved AA.
weight would be a giveaway too, subC would weigh in @ over 60 grams.


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 6, 2009)

I went to the Ray O vac website and only LSD cells listed are the AA and AAAs but then some websites rarely get current updates.


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## Black Rose (Apr 6, 2009)

I did the same thing yesterday after I found the D cells.

I don't have any chargers that can charge D cells or I would have gotten a pack to try out and do some usage tests to get an idea on capacity.


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## Beacon of Light (Apr 6, 2009)

Did they feel as heavy as D cell Alkies?



Black Rose said:


> I did the same thing yesterday after I found the D cells.
> 
> I don't have any chargers that can charge D cells or I would have gotten a pack to try out and do some usage tests to get an idea on capacity.


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## Black Rose (Apr 6, 2009)

Beacon of Light said:


> Did they feel as heavy as D cell Alkies?


I didn't hold them long enough and to be honest I was still in the "holy crap, they made C & D Hybrid cells" mode of thinking 

I'll have to check them out again when I go back to Wally World.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 7, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> I didn't hold them long enough and to be honest I was still in the "holy crap, they made C & D Hybrid cells" mode of thinking
> 
> I'll have to check them out again when I go back to Wally World.



Please do check that out. Would be good to see some objective info on capacity instead of conclusions based on, well I am not sure that conclusions can be based on anything, at this point, not sound conclusions anyway.

Bill


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## Black Rose (Apr 11, 2009)

Beacon of Light said:


> Did they feel as heavy as D cell Alkies?


I went back this morning, and they are not as heavy as D cell alkaline cells.

I couldn't find a card of 2 D cells so I grabbed two cards of the ROV Hybrid D cells and a card of 4 Duracell D cells.

The 4 ROV Hybrid D cells seem to be about half the weight of 4 Duracell D cells.

I am still tempted to get a pair to see what their capacity is, but first I need to rig up some D cell cradles to connect to my Maha C9000 so that I can get the capacity info.


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## Black Rose (Apr 11, 2009)

While re-checking on the Rayovac Hybrid D cells this morning, I found another new Hybird product, two actually.

Rayovac Hybrid 9V (8.4V) batteries for $13.97 each.

There is now also a Rayovac Hybrid Universal charger (PS20) available that charges AAA, AA, C, D, and 9V cells.

They increased the price of the Rayovac Hybrid D cells to $13.97 a pair.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 11, 2009)

No info out there on Rayovac Hybrid D cells. Nothing when I google.

Bill


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## Black Rose (Apr 11, 2009)

Yeah, no info on the C, D or 9V Hybrids on the US or Canadian Rayovac sites.

I'm going to contact Rayovac and see if I can get capacity info from them. Not sure if they will respond though....they never did respond to my inquiry late last year about the Rayovac 4.0 cells :candle:

EDIT: I've sent an inquiry to Rayovac customer service asking about the capacity of the Hybrid C, D, and 9V cells.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 11, 2009)

Thought this might be interesting re AA Hybrid. Spec sheet: http://rayovac.com/technical/pdfs/NM715_2100MAH.pdf

Bill


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## Black Rose (Apr 11, 2009)

That seems to be for the regular NiMh cells.

The Hybrids use the stock number LD715 for the AAs (and LD724 for the AAAs).


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 11, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> That seems to be for the regular NiMh cells.
> 
> The Hybrids use the stock number LD715 for the AAs (and LD724 for the AAAs).



Yes, I am in error. Was looking for specs on the 2100mAh Hybrid. Thought I found it. Thanks for correcting me.

Bill


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## Black Rose (Apr 11, 2009)

The spec sheet for the Hybrids still seems to be unavailable.

I think UnknownVT may have found an earlier version in the OEM area of the ROV site. It might be in this thread or one of the others discussing the Hybrids.

I'll see if I can track it down.

EDIT: Here is a link to the Hybrid page of the ROV Industrial site. 
There has been some debate about whether those are the correct data sheets since they say 2000 mAh when the packaging for the Hybrids indicates 2100 mAh.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 11, 2009)

I am going to call Rayovac customer services Monday. Will report back on C and D cell mAh, and where we can find their up to date spec sheets for their Hybrid cells.

Bill


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## bluepilgrim (Apr 12, 2009)

What is it with these companies that you can't get just straight information from them about the products they are selling, and that you get supposed "D" cells which are really AAs in a case and are not clearly marked as such? I see this stuff and I don't want to buy from them -- I figure they are trying to pull a fast one on consumers and don't trust them.


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## Black Rose (Apr 13, 2009)

This is priceless. 
The product is on the shelves and customer service doesn't even know about them.

This is the response I got from Rayovac Customer Service (actually from spectrumbrands not Rayovac Corp):



> Thank you for your message.
> 
> Unfortunately we do not manufacture C, D and 9 Volt Hybrid batteries.


 


However they did tell me that the capacity of their regular NiMh C & D cells is only 2200 mAh (i.e. 2 AAs in a bigger can).
EDIT: I have received information from a reliable source that the capacity of the regular NiMh C & D cells should be 2900 mAh, not 2200 mAh as provided by customer service.

I replied back to them with a photo of the product they apparently don't produce


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## bluepilgrim (Apr 13, 2009)

Maybe customer service is a shack with a phone line on a mountaiside in Wampor, and the printed docs they were supposed to get were lost when the yak carrying them lost his footing and went over a cliff? 

That post asking about the Westinghouse rechargeables for solar lights? -- I was curious searched the web for Westinghouse batteries and such, and couldn't find anything at all. I suppose they are something else with a Westinghouse name label slapped on them. 

Some years ago I tried to get information on a computer I/O card and hit 'the void' -- near as I could figure those things were from out space and were peeled off returning space shuttles where they had stuck to the tiles during re-entry. 

A related problem is that I've gotten things I liked and went to buy more, but when I opened up what even looked like, and was labeled and packaged identically, the product itself was quite different.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 13, 2009)

Interesting. I called the customer service 800 number I got off their internet site , spectrumbrands, and a voice came saying, "This program is not active", then disconnect.
Not sure I want to persue further. Looks like they are not keeping their site current.

Bill


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## Black Rose (May 2, 2009)

Picked these up today...







LD713-2 on the left, LD714-2 on the right.

I already have some 18 gauge wire, #8 ring terminals, and 1/4" rare earth magnets. 
Now I'm off to Home Depot to get some wooden dowel and make some dummy AA cells to connect these to my C9000.

We don't use enough 9V batteries to warrant getting the 9V Hybrid, but I may get one anyway....just so I have one of each type of Hybrid cell 

Apparently I have to wait until Fathers Day to get the ROV PS20 charger though


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## Mr Happy (May 2, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Picked these up today...


I've seen these in the shops, but passed them by. As far as I can tell they have the same capacity as an AA cell but in a bigger shell. Not interesting enough for me to buy them.

Let us know how it goes with the C9000 though...


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## Black Rose (May 2, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> I've seen these in the shops, but passed them by.


Thanks for confirming they are available in the US as well.
When I inquired about them, I was told they were available only in Canada at Wal-Mart. That didn't make sense to me. 



> As far as I can tell they have the same capacity as an AA cell but in a bigger shell.


They have more capacity than the AA cells. 



> Let us know how it goes with the C9000 though...


Will do.


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## Mr Happy (May 2, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> They have more capacity than the AA cells.


Really? That's interesting. My estimate was from picking up the package. They feel very light, suggesting there is a certain amount of empty space in there.


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## MorePower (May 2, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> Really? That's interesting. My estimate was from picking up the package. They feel very light, suggesting there is a certain amount of empty space in there.



They have sub-C cells in them, so there is empty space, but capacity should come in higher than 2100mAh. I believe they are spec'd at 3000mAh.


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## h2xblive (May 2, 2009)

MorePower said:


> *They have sub-C cells in them*, so there is empty space, but capacity should come in higher than 2100mAh. I believe they are spec'd at 3000mAh.



LSD SC cells? That's big news!


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## Black Rose (May 2, 2009)

Using my jerry-rigged C9000, I performed a 1000 mA discharge followed by a 1500 mA charge on the D cells.

At charge temination, the C9000 is showing 2687 & 2453 mAh on the first charge.

*EDIT:* There was a problem with a bad connection due to the pressure fit of the ring terminal that resulted in one channel not having full contact.
That affected the overall charge for that bay. I have resolved that issue and am now recharging the cells to see what affect it had on the capacities.
Will update capacity data when it is finished.

I'd like to do a break-in on them, but still not sure if I'm comfortable leaving the C9000 running for 2 days when I won't be around all the time to monitor it.


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## Black Rose (May 5, 2009)

Using my "modified" Maha C9000, I performed a break-in cycle on 2 Hybrid C cells and 2 Hybrid D cells.

The reported capacities are:

C cells - 2987 and 2924 mAh
D cells - 3016 and 3049 mAh
The D cells had an additional charge/discharge applied to them before the break-in so I could test my setup before I attempted the break-in. 
That is probably why they have slightly more capacity than the C cells.

Folks hoping for higher capacities such as the niche AccuPower cells will be disappointed, but for the rest of us I think these are a great option.


----------



## apete2 (May 7, 2009)

i wonder how hard it would be to extract the sub cs


----------



## Black Rose (May 7, 2009)

No idea, but I'm not going to try it


----------



## TexLite (May 8, 2009)

Any update on the availability of the C and D's? 

Maybe a SKU?

Couldn't find anything at the local Walmart or online.

Following with interest.

-Michael


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## Black Rose (May 8, 2009)

They are readily available at Wal-Mart here in Canada. Not sure where Mr. Happy saw them in the US (he's on the west coast).

There isn't any info available about them online yet as far as I can tell.

I kept the hang cards for the ones I bought. I'll post the SKUs this evening.


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## Mr Happy (May 8, 2009)

I saw them in Fry's.


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## Turbo DV8 (May 8, 2009)

Scarcely better capacity than the Energizer rechargeable D cells we love to hate. Just another sheep in wolve's clothing.


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## Black Rose (May 8, 2009)

Keep in mind these are cells that are geared for the mass market, not so much to hardcore battery geeks 

They have LSD sub-C cells in them...that's another interesting development in itself.


----------



## darknessemitter (May 9, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> Scarcely better capacity than the Energizer rechargeable D cells we love to hate. Just another sheep in wolve's clothing.


 
Well, the Energizer "D" Nimhs have a listed capacity of 2500mah, but if they perform anything like the Energizer AA "2500mah" cells, we know their real capacity is probably nowhere near that, and they probably suffer horrible self-discharge. 

Meanwhile Black Rose's tests show that the ROV Hybrid "D" cells have a *real* capacity around 3000mah. If they have low self discharge qualities as good as the Hybrid AA's, then that's not bad at all for cells that are available at Walmart.


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## TexLite (May 10, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> I kept the hang cards for the ones I bought. I'll post the SKUs this evening.



Thanks Black Rose. I'll be able to see if I can get them locally with the SKU's.



Mr Happy said:


> I saw them in Fry's.



Thanks Mr Happy, I'll check Fry's next time I'm there.

-Michael


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## Bullzeyebill (May 12, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Keep in mind these are cells that are geared for the mass market, not so much to hardcore battery geeks
> 
> They have LSD sub-C cells in them...that's another interesting development in itself.



LSD sub-C cells. That is interesting in itself. I would like to get my hands on those sub C's.

Bill


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## Black Rose (May 15, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> I kept the hang cards for the ones I bought. I'll post the SKUs this evening.


A week later than intended...

C cells 
Part #: LD714-2 
SKU: 012800510443

D cells 
Part #: LD713-2 
SKU: 012800510436


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## Black Rose (Jun 13, 2009)

Well I think I have 2 Hybrid AAA cells that may have crapped out on their own.

I was looking through my spreadsheet and saw that I had several sets of AAA cells that needed to be refreshed.

I discharged them before doing a R&A on the C9000.
In two of my sets of 3, one cell in each set was at around 60 mAh while the others were around 550 mAh. 

Of course I forgot to mark these two cells as possibly being bad, so now I have to wait a few months and do the discharge again to find them  
I know which light they are in, so that's half the battle right there.

I know LSD cells haven't really been around long enough to say for sure, but can a cell just lose it's LSD capability?


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 13, 2009)

My AAA SEEM not to be as good as my AA Hybrids.

I don't have any special program or anything to say for sure.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 17, 2009)

I can't say for sure what charger I used.

Depending on which one I could of gotten a bad connection or something.

But two of my AA Hybrids only ran my GPS for about 4 hours.

Just tested the pair for V and got 1.21 and 1.29

They were all charged in the days leading up to the DFW get together about 2.5 weeks ago.

I'm fairly certain it has more to do with charging than loss of long term storage however.

I'm going to put this pair in my C Crane right now.

EDIT: Incidently my GPS always dies at right around 1.2x but almost always runs 8-10 hours.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 18, 2009)

Again only 3-4 hours.

What MAY have happened is I have 3 decent SLOW chargers. I used two of them before the get together and probably didn't leve the batteries in long enough. 

I should find two more pair that run short before it's over.


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## TakeTheActive (Jun 18, 2009)

:thinking:

Many times, while I'm viewing posts, I wonder to myself, how many posters actually consider the amount of HARD DISK SPACE the forum owners have to provide to save their current entry for YEARS to come...


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## Turbo DV8 (Jun 25, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Well I think I have 2 Hybrid AAA cells that may have crapped out on their own... I know LSD cells haven't really been around long enough to say for sure, but can a cell just lose it's LSD capability?


 
I've already thrown away two of my AAA ROV Hybrids myself for this very reason. Each one was used in a pairs situation, and quite suddenly one of the two in each pair would self-discharge noticeably and also provide significantly less capacity.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 26, 2009)

I'd be EVER so dissapointed to find any of my LSD NimH have given up. At least my "failures" have happened in pairs IE: Both end at very nearly the same V.


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## Black Rose (Aug 1, 2009)

3 month self-discharge test of Rayovac Hybrid C and D cells.

I charged two Rayovac Hybrid C cells and two D cells on May 3, 2009 using the Break-in cycle on my Maha C9000.

All cells were stored at room temperature in the lower part of our house.

All cells were discharged today at 500 mA.


```
Cell         Break-in         3-month        Self              Remaining 
             capacity         Capacity       discharge         Capacity
C1             2987             2489           16.7%              83.3%
C2             2924             2482           15.1%              84.9%
 
D1             3016             2488           17.5%              82.5%
D2             3049             2484           18.5%              81.5%
```
 
These cells are marketed as being able to retain 80% of their capacity after 6 months, but they are almost at 80% after only 3 months :thinking:

I know NiMh cells lose their charge quite quickly up front and then the capacity loss tapers off. 
Hopefully these cells are at their really low capacity loss stage.

I have another set of D cells that were charged in late May that I can do a 6 month self-discharge test on in November.


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## Turbo DV8 (Aug 6, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> I've already thrown away two of my AAA ROV Hybrids myself for this very reason. Each one was used in a pairs situation, and quite suddenly one of the two in each pair would self-discharge noticeably and also provide significantly less capacity.


 
Well, add another AAA ROV Hybrid to the growing list that failed prematurely for me. Had one charged five months ago and set on the shelf, and today it was down to 0.85 volts. These AAA ROV Hybrids are really turning out to be a disappointment for me. Haven't had a single Enelopp AAA crap out on me, and I own about an equal number of them.


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