# Anyone ever had trouble with the police?



## igabo (Feb 22, 2006)

Basically what the title says.. This evening, I was out for a walk and all of a sudden decided to carry with me, a 15 MCP Thor. Now, being the idiot flashaholic I was, I shined it to the top of some (tall) trees a distance away, at the end of the street, admiring how wide, yet powerful the beam was in low mode. So then a car slows down; and I don't pay much attention to it, then I turn it off and keep walking. The car then pulls closer to me and I realize it's a police car, with another following behind.. :sweat: So the first police officer rolls down his passanger side window.

"Yes officer?" - Me

"What are you doing" - Police

"Playing around with a flashlight" - Me

"You're only going to cause trouble with it, putting it in drivers eyes.. go home." (Officer says in an angry tone) - Police

"Ok, Gotcha" - Me

(Both officers then pull into the parking lot of an apartment complex, heading to his original destination, as I walk back home)

Not too much trouble.. but has anyone else experienced anything like this? I wasn't pointing it anywhere near the street, just at the trees; even as a flashaholic, I know not to shine a 1500 + lumen light in peoples eyes.


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## NFW (Feb 22, 2006)

Some people join the police force because they want to serve and protect.

Others, just because they like to wield authority.


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## scott.cr (Feb 22, 2006)

Some people (this guy being a police officer notwithstanding) just tend to get a chip on their shoulder when people play with their toys in public.

I wonder, if you flashed it in his eyes, if you could have been arrested for assault?


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## xdanx (Feb 22, 2006)

Yes! I was waiting for someone to create a thread like this.

Ok, One night me and my friend were riding our bikes and talking to our new

neighbors. (I was riding a bike because I am only 15). And then A man pulled 

up in a van asking us if we had seen two teenagers riding around on 

stolen bikes. 

We answered No. Then about 10 minutes later the Sheriff Helicopter 

was circling the housing track. So me and my friend decided to investigate. 

We rode our Bikes up the street. Then I decided to shine my SureFire 6P at the Helicopter. (a really stupid idea ) Then The Heli's spotlight 

surrounded me. So I stopped and waited for it to go away. about 5 minutes 

later three squad cars pulled up and the Sheriff almost detained me untill he 

saw I had a completely different bike. Then he explained that there were two 

people that were jumping people for there bikes. And then left. That was the 

only time I have been confronted by the Authorities.


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## nemul (Feb 22, 2006)

igabo said:


> "You're only going to cause trouble with it, putting it in drivers eyes.. go home." (Officer says in an angry tone) - Police



I would have told him to kiss my.....
I hate cops that think they're gods cause they have a badge!
You wasnt hurting anything shinning up in a tree, he just wanted to be a A-hole!


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## Lightraven (Feb 22, 2006)

Igabo, I wouldn't say you were "in trouble" exactly. There could have been a reason for the officer to tell you what he did. Then again, he may have just been hassling you. There isn't enough information here to make any definite conclusions.

Here are some possibilities:
1. Report from concerned citizen about someone with an intense spotlight--some people are easily alarmed at unusual behavior. Officer now has to "deal" with the call. Doesn't want to keep getting more calls about it and asked by supervisors why he didn't "deal" with the problem the first time.

2. Officer thinks you are going to use light to bother people the second he leaves because he is used to dealing with kids playing pranks with fireworks, lasers, paintball or BB guns, shaving cream or whatever. Decides to prevent the possibility.

3. Officer is en route to a serious call nearby and doesn't want distractions or innocent passerby in the event of a pursuit, fight, raid, surveillance, armed standoff, major accident, etc. 

I personally have been stopped and questioned about my actions when I am not in uniform, by police, private security, and even private citizens. In rare cases, I even get ordered around. Law enforcement officers have to put up with most of the same stuff that everybody else does.


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## madecov (Feb 22, 2006)

We get lots of calls that involve juvenille's using flashlights and laser's to distract or blind drivers.
It's an annoyance and can be dangerous.

I am not trying to justify the way the Officer dealt with you or stating that you were irresponsible. Just letting you know the types of calls that we get and that the flashlight/laser problem is a bit more prevelant than you might think.


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## CMCadenhead (Feb 22, 2006)

igabo said:


> "Playing around with a flashlight" - Me



Maybe a better story, next time.

To wit:

"Thank God you're here, officer, my Auntie's parakeet Hamlet has escaped, and we need someone to climb that tree...."  

Monty


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## bikeg (Feb 22, 2006)

......................

Shining it at a tree I can see, but put yourself in his shoes...its nite and your running around with a lite, i would challenge you as to what you were doing too, but be gratefull, sounds like ya got some good police.
As for me, shining a light in the trees late at nite...nahhhhhh

For shining the light at the chopper, your lucky you were not arrested.

*Obstructing peace officer or other public servant.* (1) A person commits the offense of obstructing a peace officer or public servant if the person knowingly obstructs, impairs, or hinders the enforcement of the criminal law, the preservation of the peace, or the performance of a governmental function, including service of process.

Thought I would post that, not trying to stir up anything, just be carefull.


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## greenLED (Feb 22, 2006)

nemul said:


> I would have told him to kiss my.....
> I hate cops that think they're gods cause they have a badge!
> You wasnt hurting anything shinning up in a tree, he just wanted to be a A-hole!


 C'mon guys, how many "normal" people walk around the nighborhood with a Thor?

If, even for a split second, that beam was to hit an on-coming vehicle, and accident could happen. From that perspective, the Officer was just doing their job - and if they were annoyed, it was probably at the perceived lack of sense of someone potentially creating a dangerous situation.

Also, without knowing the kind of neighborhood where this hapenned, the amount of traffic, exact time of day, it's hard for me to make further comments.

xdanx, shining *anything* at an aircraft is just looking for trouble. :shakehead


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

Inflammatory and stereotypical content removed.


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## Navck (Feb 22, 2006)

igabo said:


> Basically what the title says.. This evening, I was out for a walk and all of a sudden decided to carry with me, a 15 MCP Thor. Now, being the idiot flashaholic I was, I shined it to the top of some (tall) trees a distance away, at the end of the street, admiring how wide, yet powerful the beam was in low mode. So then a car slows down; and I don't pay much attention to it, then I turn it off and keep walking. The car then pulls closer to me and I realize it's a police car, with another following behind.. :sweat: So the first police officer rolls down his passanger side window.
> 
> "Yes officer?" - Me
> 
> ...



Instead
*CPFer is the policeman/women in this*
"You think thats bright?" *Handheld HID in face*

That'd be hillarious


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## xdanx (Feb 22, 2006)

I know shining the light at the Helicopter was extremely stupid  but I was only 14 and it was probably one of the stupidest but at least it wasn't a M6 or Thor.


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## bikeg (Feb 22, 2006)

Im not touching this one.



InfidelCastro said:


> California police are crazy (and not too bright).
> 
> The 'yes sir' and a bit of psychology is usually the best way to deal with them.
> 
> ...


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

bikeg said:


> Im not touching this one.









I know, I got a bad habit of speaking what's on my mind.  Too bad more people don't feel the same way most of the time.


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## greenLED (Feb 22, 2006)

Yes, Navck, you'll be laughing as the cuff you and put you in the back of the cruiser. :shakehead:

Infidel, name-calling won't get you far in this forum. If you want to go that route, the UG is the venue.


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Infidel, name-calling won't get you far in this forum. If you want to go that route, the UG is the venue.




Hey green, you're a good guy, but don't you think you're being a little bit overly sensitive? There's no name calling here, just an observation.


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## nemul (Feb 22, 2006)

greenLED said:


> C'mon guys, how many "normal" people walk around the nighborhood with a Thor?
> 
> If, even for a split second, that beam was to hit an on-coming vehicle, and accident could happen. From that perspective, the Officer was just doing their job - and if they were annoyed, it was probably at the perceived lack of sense of someone potentially creating a dangerous situation.



1. He could be walking around the neighborhood smoke pot or doing drugs! 
also, that same on-coming vehicle could jump the curb hit and kill him too... 

2. I'm blinded about 20 times a night taking my girlfriend home on the dark 
highway by drivers with hi-beams on... The cop should go tell them to go home.
and what make it so bad is half know they have their brights on and dont care..


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

nemul said:


> 1. He could be walking around the neighborhood smoke pot or doing drugs!
> also, that same on-coming vehicle could jump the curb hit and kill him too...
> 
> 2. I'm blinded about 20 times a night taking my girlfriend home on the dark
> ...




Heh, I flashed two people on the interstate tonight who couldn't be bothered to dim their lights at all when I passed by.

I haven't flashed anybody in months. Course nowadays with the new blue HID's and some of the 4X4's and 80% of people with foglights running them 100% of the time even though there's no fog you almost can't tell if they have their brights on.


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## nemul (Feb 22, 2006)

InfidelCastro said:


> Heh, I flashed two people on the interstate tonight who couldn't be bothered to dim their lights at all when I passed by.
> 
> I haven't flashed anybody in months. Course nowadays with the new blue HID's and some of the 4X4's and 80% of people with foglights running them 100% of the time even though there's no fog you almost can't tell if they have their brights on.



yea, the fog lights cut off when the brights are on...


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## igabo (Feb 22, 2006)

greenLED said:


> C'mon guys, how many "normal" people walk around the nighborhood with a Thor?



:lolsign:



greenLED said:


> Also, without knowing the kind of neighborhood where this hapenned, the amount of traffic, exact time of day, it's hard for me to make further comments.



Anyway, to clarify for everyone, it's a typical residential street in CA, a car goes by maybe once a minute down the street, at about 8 PM; as for the neighborhood, Sunnyvale is a pretty good place to live, definetely not the best of California, but not a trouble-riddled town; although the area I'm in is one of the more "troubled" areas of Sunnyvale.


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## BatteryCharger (Feb 22, 2006)

igabo said:


> You're only going to cause trouble with it, putting it in drivers eyes.. go home." (Officer says in an angry tone)



Regardless of how unusual it is to carry around a thor at night, or how high the traffic may have been in the neighborhood, that cop is just being an ***. He's insinuating that igabo is going to *purposely* do bad things with the light, with no evidence what so ever to suggest it. Further more, he was not even close to breaking any laws, the officer has absolutely no business giving him orders to go anywhere.

I took a walk a few weeks ago at about midnight, and a cop drove by me slowly. After he got about 100 feet in front of me he stopped, turned on his lights, and backed up to me. "Yes?" I said. "What are you doing out here" asked the cop in a very demanding voice. "I'm going for a walk"
Him - Where are you going? Where did you come from?
Me - Is that any of your business? Is it illegal to walk at night?
Him - Grumble grumble...well, it's not normal for people to be out walking at this time of night!
Me - So what, I'm a night person
Him - Shines flashlight in my eyes
Me - god ***** you ****! How'd you like it if I shine this in your eyes? (start pointing flashlight back at him) 
Him - Hey now, there's no need to get pissy (he's been a condescending jerk the whole time)
Me - I haven't done anything wrong, you're being an a**wipe and harrassing me for no reason, I'm leaving!
And I walked away. I HATE cops who think they can just do whatever the hell they want! The next morning I called the cheif, who's a family friend, with the officers name and told him everything. "oh geez, thanks for calling, I'll deal with him".


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## CLHC (Feb 22, 2006)

Doesn't the Sunnyvale Police alternate as Firefighters too? I believe that they don both uniforms.


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

I think in California you can break several laws by simply breaking wind twenty miles from a protected species habitat, a health spa, a daycare center, a school, any government building or a hospital. So that's about par for the course there.


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## nemul (Feb 22, 2006)

InfidelCastro said:


> I think in California you can break several laws by simply breaking wind twenty miles from a protected species habitat, a health spa, a daycare center, a school, any government building or a hospital. So that's about par for the course there.



lmao


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## bikeg (Feb 22, 2006)

Your right Igabo did nothing illegal.
Again, lets step back.
Its nite time in surburbia, Young fella walking in the dark, with a beast of a light. 
He lives in a decent town, but happens to live around the bad part of it.
Is it status quo for a young fella to be doing that?
Hmm, depends on your definition of what normal is.
Before corrections I did years of armed motor patrol in the 18th most violent city in the US, and yes I would have watched his tail like a hawk.
You dont see that everynite.
That is why he was stopped.
Prevention of crime starts with detterence, the officer did his job, for all the officer knew he might have been up to something and thus prevented a possible crime.

I see this talk all day from inmates ranging from sex crimes to murder.
They always say how we are wrong and they are right.
At the end of the day, I go home to my wife, my house and everything I have ever worked for, Just like every other C/O or LEO.
And its at the end of the day I say to myself "Thank god I only work there"
The inmates are still there and im at home.
But of course...they are right....right?


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## cosine (Feb 22, 2006)

I hope nemul that you realize the irony in your response to InfidelCastro's joke.


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## Pila_Power (Feb 22, 2006)

I thought the joke stank.


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

Pila_Power said:


> I thought the joke stank.




Just wait until you hear my muslim, hindu, rabbi, buddhist and priest in a rowboat on the Amazon joke. It involves several nuns in a barfight.


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## Pila_Power (Feb 22, 2006)

...I meant it stank cos of its 'smelly nature' 

I'm sure your muslim etc jokes wont start any riots at all? hehehe


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## igabo (Feb 22, 2006)

CHC said:


> Doesn't the Sunnyvale Police alternate as Firefighters too? I believe that they don both uniforms.



Yes, in fact they do. Sunnyvale also has about 12 detectives, while Santa Clara has 80 or so, and still 30k less population than Sunnyavle. But I'm not actually sure if the policeman was from Sunnyvale or Santa Clara (My house is actually right next to the border. Head across the street and you're in Santa Clara)


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## BatteryCharger (Feb 22, 2006)

bikeg said:


> Your right Igabo did nothing illegal.
> Again, lets step back.
> Its nite time in surburbia, Young fella walking in the dark, with a beast of a light.
> He lives in a decent town, but happens to live around the bad part of it.
> Is it status quo for a young fella to be doing that?



You're right, stopping to check out what's going on would be fine. The appropriate response would be to politely ask what he's doing, and then politely ask that he be careful with the light and not point it at any cars. Rudely demanding that he go home as if he'd already comitted a crime is *completely* out of line.


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## coldsolderjoint (Feb 22, 2006)

I'm just waiting for trouble from the PD because of my new pizza delivery light. 

I recently upgraded to a 1160 in a magcharger for trying to find house numbers. Its blindingly bright. 

I do have a lighted pizza store sign on the roof of my car, but some people do look at me weird. 

I've had people call the store and complain that a driver lighted up their house, but no one ever called the police. I guess theyd have to catch a plate for the police to really do anything. 

Idk.. I think they would be more on my side. 

I've been in my ambulance driving around with them trying to find the houses of medical emergencys and I *Know* for a fact that police around here themselfs have trouble finding addresses.. they need to light up everyhouse with their car mounted spot lights while driving down the road. This is due mostly to stupid homeowners, brass numbers, no lights. Those $1.25 reflective numbers from the hardware store absolutley are the best.. and put them in a good location.. like the mail box.


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## Pila_Power (Feb 22, 2006)

I made some glow in the dark numbers and stuck them on my parents mailbox. Looks great!!


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## John N (Feb 22, 2006)

BatteryCharger said:


> You're right, stopping to check out what's going on would be fine. The appropriate response would be to politely ask what he's doing, and then politely ask that he be careful with the light and not point it at any cars.



Can we all agree to this?



BatteryCharger said:


> Rudely demanding that he go home as if he'd already comitted a crime is *completely* out of line.



If we all agree to the former, then certainly it could have been handled better, but it doesn't seem to me that we need to get too bent out of shape about it.

-john


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## John N (Feb 22, 2006)

Pila_Power said:


> I made some glow in the dark numbers and stuck them on my parents mailbox. Looks great!!



I did mine from retro-reflective numbers. 

-john


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

BatteryCharger said:


> You're right, stopping to check out what's going on would be fine. The appropriate response would be to politely ask what he's doing, and then politely ask that he be careful with the light and not point it at any cars. Rudely demanding that he go home as if he'd already comitted a crime is *completely* out of line.




Totally. A few weeks ago I was walking out in the middle of nowhere for many miles in the bitter cold and when I was about 100 feet from my destination a cop drives by.. slows down to the side of the road.. turns around (oh sheeot going through my head, mostly because of the irony) and asks if everything is okay. "Yep it sure is and thanks for asking." Nothing wrong with that. Seems there's alot of powertrippers in other areas of the country. The cops around here are generally great.

@coldsolderjoint

I honestly hestitate to light up houses with my magnumstar 2C maglite unless necessary and always try my best to not aim it at a window. I've heard of drivers lighting up houses with spotlights and I think that's just ridiculous. Also all the other drivers I work with don't even use flashlights which I find even more ridiculous.

99% of the time I have not needed more than the light of my 2C Mag to light up an address.


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## SuperNinja (Feb 22, 2006)

InfidelCastro said:


> Heh, I flashed two people on the interstate tonight


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

SuperNinja said:


>




Certainly not. If I did that, the whole state would go dark.


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## PGP (Feb 22, 2006)

bikeg said:


> Your right Igabo did nothing illegal.
> 
> Prevention of crime starts with detterence, the officer did his job, for all the officer knew he might have been up to something and thus prevented a possible crime.



I see your point but the fact still remains the same that he was not doing anything illegal. They still have no right to command some one to do something for no lawful reason.  

Example: I am riding my bike down the street and a LEO pulls up with a bug up his a** because he got into it with someother guy on a bike on his last call. So he tells me he does not like how I am riding my bike down the street and tells me to take it home and park it. Now if I dont comply with his bogus request he will get me with faliure to comply which is stupid because the original request was an unlawful request. :huh2: 



bikeg said:


> I see this talk all day from inmates ranging from sex crimes to murder.
> But of course...they are right....right?



Those people have already been convicted of a crime and majority of them are guilty. This does not apply to a person who has not commited a crime.

The unfortunate problem is that there are a lot of authority abusing LEO's to go along with all the nice LEO's. The other problem is that when a LEO is reported as being abusive it usually never goes any where unless it constantly happens. :touche: 

Now before you bash me as being a cop hater! I have 3 friends in the CHP, 1 in LAPD, 1 sheriff and 2 other city LEO's. I understand that they get ill tempered once in a while, they are a person just like me. :wave: 

Patrick!


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## coldsolderjoint (Feb 22, 2006)

InfidelCastro said:


> @coldsolderjoint
> 
> I honestly hestitate to light up houses with my magnumstar 2C maglite unless necessary and always try my best to not aim it at a window. I've heard of drivers lighting up houses with spotlights and I think that's just ridiculous. Also all the other drivers I work with don't even use flashlights which I find even more ridiculous.
> 
> 99% of the time I have not needed more than the light of my 2C Mag to light up an address.



I might be blind.. but there is tons of "interferrence light" in my area.. and a g2 doesnt even cut it. I cant imagine how crappy a 2c would work for me. I might use that to throw through the window when they dont answer the damn door. I'm usually good with how the different streets run, and Ill usually try to make the least interferrence possible.. check the curb (in the richer sections). check the curb mounted mail box (if there is one). Check around the door/ house mounted mail box. Check Garage. There really is no need to shine it directly into windows because its obvious theres not going to be a number there. As a last resort, (usually the case). I have to check surrounding houses and "figure it out". Nothing worse then walking up to the wrong house with a pizza. Deffinatley dont need a gun pulled on me. (One time I went to this apartment, guy opens the door.. says "Your Late" I'm like, "Uh.. Sorry sir, we are really busy" As hes signing the credit card receipt, I notice what appears to be a fully loaded .357 sitting on this desk near his door. No holster, no badge, no handcuffs, just sitting there, and it sure as hell didnt look like a toy. There was a small kid (around 4 years, playing in the living room. I just acted like everything was normal and walked away)) Making a lot of attention might actually be good.. One.. more people watching me.. if I do get mugged its more people to call the police/describe the suspect.. and two.. they see the advertising on the car sign and get hungry to order pizza = $$ in my pocket to buy more flashlights :laughing: 

As far as the people who call the store, I beleave that they are just pains in the *** who want something to complain about. It's not like I'm targeting anyone directly, and I'm doing my job, I think it's pretty obvious when the sign is so bright, I have to close the sunroof slider at night. The glare in the rearview mirror from the sign is too much. There is one lady who must sit at her window. Everytime I drive in the vacinity of three blocks, she calls the store and says that "He's driving without regard for anyone." And this is far from the case, I don't speed, especially with a "HEY LOOK AT ME" sign on, and I don't get in trouble, never since that speeding ticket in North Carolina. And, she never has any details as to what I was doing, and she wont leave her name/number or location where I was at for the manager to call her back. Her # is blocked from caller ID. Some people just want to complain. And it's probably not the best thing to do considering you might want to order pizza one day. 

As a disclaimer, I personally have never messed with a person's food, but I knnow a few driver's who have some vile things.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 22, 2006)

Sometimes when I walk my dog at night I use FiveMega's 700L or 1300L Mag 1331/1185 lights, and while looking for skunks, racoons, or other animals that I don't want to deal with, I swing my beam accross the street, and occasionally with cars driving towards me (but not right at them).

I had one person stop and complain about how bright it was, for which I apologized, and it was fine. Little while later, I had a friend hold the light, and I went down the street in my car and approached from hundreds of feet (300-500 ft), and he swung it like I had done, and then straight at me.

I actually had no idea how lights this bright TOTALLY wipe out your entire vision for a few seconds at night...even with your own headlights on...and on lighted streets.

Suffice it to say that I'll never swing across a driver's windshield again.

==============================================

One other thing I did was shine each of these FiveMega Mag lights at a passenger Ferry that was at least a mile off shore, to see if it had that much throw into the black distance. Evidently, both of these on separate occasions were easily noticed because, they turned their ship's searchlight on me almost immediately.

These weren't even my X990 or the soon to arrive "Barn Burner" spotlights...so I have a tremendous appreciation for the intensity of these lights, and the need for being responsible with them.


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## Robocop (Feb 22, 2006)

There are good cops....great cops and yes sometimes even bad cops. The simple fact is that there are good and bad people in any profession these days.

I have said this here before and will say it again is that you never know what any officer has seen nor experienced in their career. All cops have war stories and each one has also most likely seen violence daily. You can not judge a cops actions nor their words without knowing what the job is like. 

Maybe this certain cop had seen a horrible wreck caused on a lonely little road where a family lost their lives. Maybe this wreck was a result of some form of distraction that is not normally found on this road. Hell I know that a super bright beam of light may cause me to lose concentartion for a split second. Yes the cop could have been more polite and maybe his actions were a little harsh however once again walk a mile in a cops shoes and you may see how it gets to you.

As far as not doing anything wrong well that could depend on many factors. In almost any state there are laws that are very vague and can be made to apply to almost any situation. Lets take Disorderly Conduct for example..... Here if a persons actions bring general alarm to the public or in any way distract or impeed traffic they can be jailed for disorderly.

You do not have to talk to a cop if you are not in the wrong however if your actions are in the least bit suspiscious you can be detained here and questioned. I think the cop in question here was simply saying that the bright beam was distracting and a warning was in order. It could have been worse and if he actually thought you were a bad person or some form of a threat he could have went further. He did not search your person or even run your name through the criminal data base thus it was a conversation and nothing more. Maybe it was a little rude or harsh however sometimes this happens with every walk of life....not just police officers.

I have sometimes seemed a little rude or harsh on a traffic stop and afterwards have explained my actions and tone of voice once I am feeling safe. You see early on in my career I stopped a car with a very normal looking man driving. He opened his door and stepped out to meet me half way. His actions did not show aggression and I began to explain the reason he was stopped. Suddenly he attacked me and a violent struggle began. I was able to subdue him however the incident left me very leery of anyone who opened a door from then on.

Long story short a few weeks later I stopped a car with a school teacher in his 50s driving. He opened his car door and was greeted with my firearm drawn and some very harsh words to get back in his vehicle. Now to him I must have appeared to be some wild cop out of control on a power trip. Some time later he filed a complaint stating I had scared him with the threat of being shot for simply opening his door to be polite and greet me. If he had been through what I had he may have seen it differently.

I hope this event does not give you a bad impression of police igabo as most of them are decent people. There are some low down cops in the world however the good ones far overtake the bad ones. I suggest to anyone who has a bad experience to maybe do a ride along if it is allowed in your area. You may see first hand what it is like on the street and will also learn that cops are simply people just like yourself.


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## cyberhobo (Feb 22, 2006)

I personally feel _too little_ on-the-spot questioning is taking place nowadays. Many things can be revealed in casual conversation.:naughty:


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## Safety1st (Feb 22, 2006)

I don't think the original story really highlights 'trouble with the police'...

It doesn't sound like the officer was rude or aggressive and basically thought he was doing his job..

I'm not defending the LEO, im just putting it into prospective.

He obviuosly didn't think you were too back a guy, as i'm presuming you and your vehicle weren't searched? Checked for outstanding warrants? etc?


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## NickelPlate (Feb 22, 2006)

I agree. He might as well just have been stopped for carrying a potentially dangerous coat hanger. I think it was poor judgement on the part of the officer. I can understand stopping a group of kids or teenagers walking around with a light like that. But presumably Igabo is a grown man, and if he wanted to commit a crime what could he do with a flashlight?

Dave




BatteryCharger said:


> You're right, stopping to check out what's going on would be fine. The appropriate response would be to politely ask what he's doing, and then politely ask that he be careful with the light and not point it at any cars. Rudely demanding that he go home as if he'd already comitted a crime is *completely* out of line.


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## chrisse242 (Feb 22, 2006)

I remember a light-related situation a few years back, in my pre-flashaholic days. I was visiting my mum and was lying in my bed, reading a book. It was around one or two hours after midnight. My room in my mums house is in the basement, with a window facing the street in front of our house. It was a hot night and I had the window open. Eventually I heard a car, some kind of bump, and the car driving away. We have a lot of cats around in our neighbourhood and so I thought maybe the car had hit one of them. I went to grab a flashlight (a real crappy one) and went outside to look around. My car was parked in front of our house and since I couldn't see a anything in the street, I went to my knees to look under the car. As I got back up, I saw another car slowly approaching. They where driving much slower than usuall in that street, but I did not see anything to worry about. I figured I wouldn't find the cat (there probbaly never was one), so I started to go back into the house when I recognized the car was following me.
I thought, hey maybe those are the guys and they're coming back to look for whatever they had hit with their car, so I waited for them. As they came closer, I saw two guys with epaulettes. The driver lowered his window and stopped right beside me. I asked: Can I help you officer? 
His answer came in a rather harsh tone: What are you doing here? That was of course a legit question that late in the night, but with just a shirt, shorts and no shoes, I certainly didn't look like the average bad guy, trying to steal a car. While I spoke to them, both got out of the car, and both had their hands on their guns.
Anyway, I explained what had happened, that I was in front of my mums house (We where right in front of the open door) and that If they wanted, they could come in and speak to my mother. Seems like they didn't believe me, they took me to the house, both still prepared to draw their guns. I called for my mother, and told her the police wanted her to identify me. Luckily she had not gone to bed, but she yelled at me not to make silly jokes.
I had to call for her once again. She finally came and saw me with the two officers. By now, those guys should have known that I was speaking the truth, but one of them asked her: Is this your son? Once again, he wasn't polite at all. Well, my mother is not as forgiving as I am. A few seconds later this officer clearly wished he would have been more polite. My mum used to be a teacher and she spoke to him like she would have to a student that came to school whithout his homework. They explained they were looking around because a lot of cars had been stolen in our area, but she only asked how often they had cought someone, trying to steal a car without shoes, and what they thought I had been trying to do *under* the car, if I wanted to steal it. Well after they got their lecture they finally apologized and left.
I think it was ok to stop and ask me what I was doing, but I was obviously unarmed and stayed polite all the time, so their harsh tone was completely uncalled for, as well as those hands on their guns.

Chrisse


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## Robocop (Feb 22, 2006)

NickelPlate you may be suprised what a grown man can do with a light and to presume in police work judging by looks only will get you killed. Sure it may have looked like a harmless grown man playing with a light in the tree tops however we are trained to always assume the worst and to de-escalate slowly once you know it is safe. Years of watching co-workers killed in training tapes on what appeared to be a routine day on a routine call will make you a little jumpy. Personally I would rather hurt someones feelings as to end up shot in the face because I was not ready.

Chrisse242 your story is interesting however any cop doing his job would have stopped you and checked it out. Sure once again you may not have looked like the typical type person who would break into a car with shorts and no shoes on however you never know. Once again we must assume the worst until we know. I mean for all the officers knew you may have just been in a horrible fight inside your home and after killing someone you fled outside wearing only shorts. Then you could have been trying to take the first car you saw to flee the scene.

I know that sounds crazy however I will almost bet you that it has happened somewhere and sometime and a smart officer will be very cautious first as we are drilled every day to never relax. As far as their hands on their guns at all times....well once again this is how we are trained and after years on the streets it is a simple reflex action of any officer.

I once saw a tape of an officer who approached a man at a wreck scene. The victim of the wreck was a little jumpy and seemed to be nervous however he was wearing a tank top and sweats with flip flop shoes. Now the officer assumed this guy was no threat and had simply been involved in a little fender bender. What the officer did not know was that 10 minutes earlier he had killed his brother over a card game and fled the scene when he wrecked a short time later. Well the cop assuming this was a normal call began to write in his note pad with both hands busy. As he did not have a hand on his weapon the suspect suddenly grabbed for the cops gun. During the struggle the cop was killed with his own weapon...why because he relaxed.

I now approach every scene as if there is someone there who wants to hurt me. Young or old...male or female I never relax and have got many complaints for treating a certain person like a criminal. One lady who was a Doctor complained because I told her to sit down on a couch where I could keep my eyes on her while I was investigating a domestic call at her home. She said "he acted as if I were a criminal and he did not trust me". She wanted me fired for treating her badly. If she knew that I was once stabbed in the back by a female who I had just saved from her husband who was trying to kill her as I walked inside the door.....well maybe she would not have been so quick to judge me. So I have a standard rule to not let anyone out of my sight on a domestic call.....no hard feelings but simple tactics of survival.


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## Robocop (Feb 22, 2006)

Ok sorry to keep ranting on this however I have also seen the term obviously unarmed thrown around a few times. I will honestly say that in police work there is no such thing as obviously unarmed. Anything can be used as a weapon and this includes fists and feet. A lucky punch to a relaxed officer could blur the vision and give a supposed "unarmed" man the suprise factor. Many officers have been killed by unassuming and visually unarmed looking persons.

I like this thread and do appreciate the views of others however I do feel it is important to not allow society to form a general bad impression of police from simply not understanding why certain tactics and methods are used.


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## bikeg (Feb 22, 2006)

Right on Robo.

When I did motor patrol/alarm runner work, I once had a place refuse to serve me based on my occupation.
Since I have been in corrections that has gotten a bit better.

But yes, next time an officer asks you to do something, no matter how much of the law you *think* he is abusing, put yourself in his shoes.
Sleep well at night knowing that these guys may have prevented a home invasion...at your addy.

Threads like these can become difficult due to different peoples perceptions of what is right and wrong,


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## Pydpiper (Feb 22, 2006)

Middle of the day, I was on my way to town from my country home, I spotted an out of town cruiser in a position that looked like he was radaring traffic.
I flashed my high beams at the next oncoming car to alert him. That instant a very attractive brunette jumped onto the road and flagged me over, I did a once over in the mirror to make sure I was looking respectable and before I knew it her grizzly partner was in my window.. 
"What the hell are you doing?" I smirked at him as I looked for my ownership..
"Would it be so funny if I charged you with obstructing a peace officer"
Obstructing? I said, How do you know I wasn't saying good morning to my business partner, your other cruiser is in his parking lot.
* all these cops were in from out of town on some community switch*
I told him he was crazy to try to charge me.
He did.
The judge asked the officer what their goal out there that day was, he responded by saying slowing traffic by community awareness.
Then turned to me and asked why I flashed my High beams, I told him I too was trying to slow traffic.
The Judge said "I don't see the problem, either way the traffic has been slowed"
He chuckled and said for us both to leave his courtroom.
Case dismissed.

I spend more time driving than most people, and I am not against this type of warning. Everybody speeds at some point, it's a friendly gesture that the public gets to share.
I'm not talking about a noisy honda civic doing twice the speed limit, I am refering to the general public, guys with work trucks trying to feed their famlies, moms in mini vans taking the kids to school, rest assured if I can save one person from a ticket or just a plain old bad experience, I will. I also stop for every vehicle I see on the road side, to offer assistance.


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## nemul (Feb 22, 2006)

bikeg said:


> Prevention of crime starts with detterence, the officer did his job, for all the officer knew he might have been up to something and thus prevented a possible crime.



common sense would have told the cop no criminal would carry to Thor around...


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## Planterz (Feb 22, 2006)

I ride my bike home late at night (early morning). One time a cop who'd pulled someone over shined his Stinger in my eyes from across the street. Before I could even think about what I was saying, I blurted "AAAHH! [email protected]#$%ER!!" I dimly heard the cop say "oh, sorry". I did think about blasting him back with the SF L2 I had hanging from my backpack strap, but I didn't want to make any motions that might have looked like I was pulling a gun or somethin. Now, I understand the cop meant no ill will, but he should have known better. They make cops who carry tasers get shocked once so they understand the affects, maybe they should blast each other in the eyes with their flashlights once in a while so they remember what it does to a person who's eyes are night-adjusted.

I should have fallen on purpose and sued the PD. :naughty:


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## zespectre (Feb 22, 2006)

John N said:


> it could have been handled better, but it doesn't seem to me that we need to get too bent out of shape about it. -john


 
Well, some people here aren't going to like this information but this is the way the real world works.

I was a "protect and serve" type of LEO and I really believed in just calming situation and handling things professionally and politely, but sometimes you came into situations where your best decision making tactic was to apply the "litmus test". 

You'd be patroling (especially at night) and sometimes you'd see someone (especially a teenage male) doing something unusual so you go investigate. So the question you have to quickly answer (remembering that you could instantly wind up DEAD if you are wrong) is this... is this kid a basically good kid out having a lark or is this a bad kid up to bad stuff.

What's the quick n' dirty "litmus test" for this case? You hassle them just a little. Almost every time the basically good kid might be upset, but will control it. The bad kid will go apeshit almost every damn time and give you the reason you're waiting for so you can investigate further.

It's not pretty, it's not friendly, it's not PC, and it's not warm and cuddley. So sorry if that offends others but the simple fact is that the officer who looses control of a situation is usually the officer who gets hurt so the faster you can determine WHAT the situation is the better off everyone is (even if someone's ego gets bruised).


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## chrisse242 (Feb 22, 2006)

Robocop said:


> Ok sorry to keep ranting on this however I have also seen the term obviously unarmed thrown around a few times. I will honestly say that in police work there is no such thing as obviously unarmed. Anything can be used as a weapon and this includes fists and feet. A lucky punch to a relaxed officer could blur the vision and give a supposed "unarmed" man the suprise factor. Many officers have been killed by unassuming and visually unarmed looking persons.
> 
> I like this thread and do appreciate the views of others however I do feel it is important to not allow society to form a general bad impression of police from simply not understanding why certain tactics and methods are used.



First, let me say that in general, I have nothing but respect for those in the Law enforcement business. As I said, it was perfectly ok to stop and ask me what I was doing. I also understand that you all need to make sure you're not harmed. But I've had other situations with LEO's who acted more professional and stayed friendly. Those included a situation when me and a friend drove back from a concert. An old car, two young guys with sunglasses, the car full of synthesizers, guitars and other stuff. Because of the glasses and because it was a cloudy day, the officers thought they'd stop us, ask some questions and finally search us for drugs and weapons. I even had to take of my boots, put my hands on the roof of the car and so on. 
The point is, allthough this situation seemed to be much worse than the one described above, I never felt uncomfortable. I knew there where a total of three officers standing behind us, ready to draw their guns while another officer was searching us. All of them stayed friendly, explained their actions but they where obviously alerted all the time. They clearly suspected us to have drugs. After they were finished searching and found out we were only two tired guys on their way back home, everyone said good bye and that was it. 
That actually was the very same year, and I wasn't a teenager (something around 23 to 25 actually). Zespectre, it's ok if you think you need this "litmus test" but I guess in that case you'll have to live with the fact that people are getting angry at you. The least thing to do would be to appologize once the situation is clear. If those officers from the first incident would have explained their actions in your words, I would have accepted that. On the other hand, I still see no reason to be rude to a lady in her fifties, she could hardly have been my accomplice.

Chrisse


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## tron3 (Feb 22, 2006)

I was thinking of taking my 10 M-CP light to my uncle's on July 4th for the BBQ and fireworks. He lives in a BIG house across the hudson on the cliffs. Best view you can get.

But helicopters are in the area. I suppose they would buzz us if I shine that thing on the Empire State Building. Hell, police would show up. Maybe I better not.




But in the situation of carrying a Thor while walking the dog...that is definately weird. Even for a flashaholic. Something I would do in my youth, but not today.

Maybe the cop just didn't want a potential hazzard, and was annoyed at this "stupid behavior". 

Remember, "safety first".


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## zespectre (Feb 22, 2006)

<Begin mangled quote> Zespectre, it's ok if you think you need this "litmus test" but I guess in that case you'll have to live with the fact that people are getting angry at you. The least thing to do would be to appologize once the situation is clear. <End Mangled Quote>

Chrisse, fair enough. I suppose I should have also included that I did try to smooth things over (apologize, explaine, or whatever was appropriate) whenever the situation was determined to be all clear.


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## chrisse242 (Feb 22, 2006)

zespectre said:


> Begin mangled quote> Zespectre, it's ok if you think you need this "litmus test" but I guess in that case you'll have to live with the fact that people are getting angry at you. The least thing to do would be to appologize once the situation is clear. <End Mangled Quote
> 
> Chrisse, fair enough. I suppose I should have also included that I did try to smooth things over (apologize, explane, whatever) whenever the situation was all clear.



And I didn't expect anything different from a cpf-member. Everbody knows we're a friendly crowd.  
I guess like in every job, there are good and bad apples and most of the time, those we speak about are the bad ones. I know that from my own job (local newspaper). It's much easier to get a bad reputation than a good one.

Chrisse


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## zespectre (Feb 22, 2006)

Boy you aren't kidding there. I have a great example from my own career of just how things go bad. 

We get a call of a man beating a woman. We show up (in an apartment building) and have to force the door open... well here's the girl knocked out and bleeding on the floor and here's the guy WITH A GUN! So we have a bit of a standoff. 

Now one of the neighbors opens his door and walks out into the hallway and all he can see is one cop in a doorway and two others in the hall all with drawn guns and he YELLS "hey what the hell is going on here".

I'm closest to him so I step back and (yes I realize how this sounds now) hiss at him to get back into his apartment. He tries to move around me to see in the neighbors apartment so I grab him by the shirt, shove him back in his apartment, tell him to stay the hell out of the hallway, and pull his door shut.

So eventually the bad guy decides to drop his gun, we rush and subdue him and bundle him out of the building. Now it's off to the station to drop him off and then all of the associated paperwork before my shift ends. I never had a chance to say anything else to the neighbor. 

The next day I'm informed that I'm facing possible assult charges, etc. So I'm on admin leave and then there's a review and in the end the board considers my actions justified. The neighbor guy was present at the review so he hears the whole story... but he just can't let it go. So for the next few MONTHS I am considered the BAD GUY on that part of my patrol until I managed to do enough PR work to get my reputation back in order.


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## zespectre (Feb 22, 2006)

Darn, wanted to tell this story earlier too and forgot.
Again, I'm not saying the cop in the OP wasn't rude or whatever, I'm just trying to give (yet another) example of how something looks one way to the casual eye and another way to a cop on a case...

We had a drug bust that totally failed, somehow they were alerted and running even as we arrived. Eventually we figured out that the key was the grandmother sitting out in the park. If she saw anything suspicious she'd shine a light up onto the apartment window and they'd scatter. To anyone spotting her she was just an innocent old lady sitting out in the park enjoying the evening. There was quite an uproar over that arrest too and if we hadn't gotten security video from a camera monitoring the park... well you know.

My point is that cops just can't assume.
Can't assume someone is unarmed
Can't assume someone isn't dangerous
Can't assume that unusual but innocent -looking- behavior is really innocent

It's not a video game, you don't get to push the reset button or put another quarter in if it all goes wrong.

Now, having run totally off at the keyboard I will also freely admit this...some cops are just absolute jerks and I wish we could get them off the force <sigh>.


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## AJ_Dual (Feb 22, 2006)

Here's the "probem" with police in a nutshell:

99% Of police:

See nothing day in and day out but the worst of humanity, the entire spectrum from subhuman child rapists/murderers, to petty shoplifters, and everything in between. 

They then have minimal dealings with nominaly "good" people, and when they do it's usualy ordinance enforcment such as traffic violations and noise complaints, and the "normal" citizenry is often sporting an attitude and acting irratable, or perhaps worse, acting patronizing, and offering the lamest excuses/lies imagninable that the officer has heard thousands of times before.

Then, the other category of "good" people they encounter are victims, enraged (justifiably), screaming, bleeding, crying, and generaly having the worst moment of their lives right before the officer's eyes.

And the only symptom is a little "attitude"? Count your blessings!

If the police give you a gruff attitude, and act disbelieving at your poking around at night with your favorite lights, it's not personal. The police aren't insulting "YOU", they don't know you as Joe-average flashlight nerd, geocacher, or third-shift worker out for some air. 

They aren't making insinuations about your character or intent merely for fun. They're thinking of the 100-odd prowlers, peeping toms, and fleeing suspects who "just happen to be out walking", and they have to release anyway, because of our Constitution and due process, knowing they're up to no good, but they're powerless.

In that case, a dirty look, a harsh word, and a litle posturing is all the police have to deter someone they "know" is up to no good, but legaly they can't touch them. If you're on the recieving end of it, treat it like you would a bill-collector nasty-gram for someone who dosen't live at your home. It's irrelavant, and not really meant for you.

1% Of police:

Are bonifide jerks, power trippers, or corrupt. Such is life. 

So for that 99% of non-jerk police, they're often underpaid as compared to the private sector, working odd hours, and in danger. They then have to interact with the public which at worst are criminal scum, and the "normal/innocent" people are often irritable or patronizing, or experiencing severe trauma. 

I haven't even gotten into the third direction of pressure that's applied by administration, politicians, the press, and "activists" who champion the rights of the "misunderstood disenfranchised underclasses" (i.e. apologists for criminal thugs) That would be a whole thread in itself.

Then, when the uniform comes off, the good normal people relax and start acting like themselves. Instead of making the officer's faith in humanity better, it only makes the difference when they're in uniform that much more noticable.

Frankly I'm amazed at how well our police perform in the USA. The exceptions of bad police, or corrupt departments just proves how amazing the rest of them are. When you realy think about what that kind of presure every day must be like, it's astonishing how good the vast majority are.


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## trivergata (Feb 22, 2006)

You guys need to move to Texas!!!!!

I went out in the fog last night to play "lightsaber" with my green LuxIII Aleph and my Ultrastinger. 2 cops showed up because they had seen the US from a few blocks away. They thought it was the coolest thing they'd seen all night, and played around with their mags and my lights. Then I broke out a laser - just a normal red, but still fun.

My wife and I stopped in the middle of nowhere late one night to shoot some lumens into a cattle field and finaly had to leave - not because we were bothering anyone, but because every one of the 8 or 10 cars that passed us in the middle of nowhere at 2 in the morning stopped to offer help. We told them we were looking at stars and they all said stuff like "ok! have a good night!" We felt bad for making so many people stop, and their lights were killing our night vision.

God bless Texas!

Josh


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## Numbers (Feb 22, 2006)

AJ
I dont know where your percentages come from but I generally agree with your assessment. It must be tough for a cop to go to work day in and day out in an adversarial if not hostile environment. I dont know why anyone would want to subject themself to that for an entire career. It's got to change your outlook on life (probably for the worse). Unless of course your a local cop, like the village police where I live, that get paid big dollars to issue a few tickets here and there. But that's the complete other end of the spectrum that probably only a small few get to enjoy.


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## greenLED (Feb 22, 2006)

InfidelCastro said:


> Hey green, you're a good guy, but don't you think you're being a little bit overly sensitive? There's no name calling here, just an observation.



Thank you. Maybe I am. I come from a family of LEO and military, and I've been involved with local PD and interact with our State Troopers. I may have a bit more exposure to police's daily routine, and maybe I'm more sensitized to some of their issues - it feels good when a loved one comes home after a dangerous day at work (a sacrifice they perform daily for the rest of us); that's my bias and it will reflect on (most of) my LEO-related posts.

I interpreted your "law and order" label as derogatory of what my comments were. Seems like I was mistaken.


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## BackBlast (Feb 22, 2006)

AJ_Dual said:


> They aren't making insinuations about your character or intent merely for fun. They're thinking of the 100-odd prowlers, peeping toms, and fleeing suspects who "just happen to be out walking", and they have to release anyway, because of our Constitution and due process, knowing they're up to no good, but they're powerless.



I can't help but feel this is a little disparaging of the protections given to individuals. As bad as it is to see a guilty man free based on some protection of personal liberty, it is far far worse to punish an innocent man - might as well _be_ a criminal. You probably didn't intend this, but I thought I'd share.

I'll also share my last run in with the police (though it wasn't trouble). I had a tire blow on the interstate at roughly 9:00 at night. I pulled the car over to the shoulder, got out my spare, jack, and a couple of flashlights. I pulled the head off a dorcy metal gear and set it on the road pointed toward traffic, using it as a kind of cone to try and make sure cars give me a bit of space (front driver side tire blew). The right lane in that part of the freeway was not frequently used but it's still somewhat unnerving to have a car wiz by at 70 mph less than 10 feet away. So I went about my business changing my tire, a police cruiser fired up it's lights on the other side of the freeway, and about 5 minutes later we had a cruiser pull up behind us (my wife and I aren't sure they were the same cruiser, but we suspect so). He parked as to shield our car with his car and lights and give us plenty of room, spoke with my wife, said hi to the baby then lit up the tire I was changing with his 4D mag. I was almost done at that point, but it was noted that the spare was very low. So he offered to drive behind us as we drove along the shoulder very slowly, off the freeway and to the nearest station with air. Which probably took another 10 minutes.

He was very cordial and respectful and we thanked him for his help. After it was all done with I couldn't help but think about what the rest of his day might be like and doing what he just did is probably not something that happens very often.

I've generally had good experience with the police here. Though I do not like how the cities use them as tax collectors in the form of giving out traffic tickets (at least around here). Recently there was a big case that caused the police to be busy doing other work (other than traffic, heaven forbid!) for several months. When budget time rolled around the city complained and complained about lost revenue (in the millions), but the interesting thing was. Accidents went way down during those months, which was very revealing.. It's not about safety, just revenue. I think the average officer might have a better perception of the public (and vice versa) if this evil was removed from their list of regular duties - at least to the extent it's currently persued. I don't think it's good for any of us.

Anyway, there's my input!


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

I think delivery drivers (like me) get killed alot more than cops. As do night cashiers. So do alot of other professionals.

I think alot of the animosity towards police officers comes from them always trying to put themselves above others. And constantly making themselves out to be heros.


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## Brighteyez (Feb 22, 2006)

Igabo,

I'm inclined to take a devil's advocate approach to this one.

Based upon your account



igabo said:


> I was out for a walk and all of a sudden decided to carry with me, a 15 MCP Thor.



If you were in the Sunnyvale DPS officer's shoes, don't you think that in itself would be an unusual site? Something out of the ordinary? As a trained observer, would your suspicions be aroused?



igabo said:


> I shined it to the top of some (tall) trees a distance away, at the end of the street, admiring how wide, yet powerful the beam was in low mode.



What could have been beyond the trees or been in the path of the trees that could have been disturbed? And I'm sure a few people here would have that same question had the item in question been a firearm.




igabo said:


> "You're only going to cause trouble with it, putting it in drivers eyes.. go home." (Officer says in an angry tone) - Police



I think you're probably already aware of the potential damage that can occur if that light were to distract the attention of drivers, even if it occurred unintentionally during use to light other objects. And while it may be a form of profiling, there would be some probable cause to believe that a young person carrying a high powered spotlight on a residential street could potentially use it in a careless manner that could endanger the public safety. I suppose the other way to put that one could be "how would you react if a member of your family were injured or killed in a automobile accident resulting from a light blinding them and imparing their ability to operate a motor vehicle safely?"

Additionally, as you remarked that the officers were responding to a citizen request for assistance at a nearby building, the other thing that you would probably want to take into consideration is whether or not your use of that light at an inopportune moment could have endangered the safety of the responding officers. Since neither they nor you know exactly what they're actually responding to, it would be common sense to exercise reasonable precautions not only for the safety of the responding officers but for that of the public that may be around them, and you could have been an easy target had you illuminated that light at the wrong moment.


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## Flakey (Feb 22, 2006)

Actually i hunt down LEO's at night when im well armed with my lights. If i see any police officer or paramedic or firefighter so on and so fourth, i walk up to them and before they say anything i say, "HEY, lemmi talk to you about you lights!" "what you got there, mag charger, 3D mag? huh huh?" "You ever heard of surefire? here take a look at this its a C3, do you think you would have a use for this?" ::hands the mag35:: "How often do you findyourself using lights during your shift?" "do you carry a back up light?" "Does your station provide 123 lithium batteries?" "did you know that batteries for your duty lights are a tax write off?" by the time i get around to the tax thing they have usually backed off and found something else to do. LOL i love talking to LEO's about their lights, cause heck if anyone needs surefire's its the cops.


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## bikeg (Feb 22, 2006)




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## prof (Feb 22, 2006)

Personal experience: most of my dealings with police officers have been very positive. For example, one stopped me for an out of date licence plate. We'd moved, the notice was not forwarded of course, and I missed it. My fault, no issue. He gave me a ticket, told me to get the tag updated and drop by the courthouse before the court date because most such cases were dropped--told me the same thing had happened to him recently. He also thanked me for being polite. Really nice guy, saved me a fine with a helpful hint. Being polite pays off.

I have a lot of respect for most of the officers I've encountered. They are generally polite and helpful, assuming that you do nothing to alarm or worry them. In short, if they ask you to move, move. There may be other factors that you're unaware of and that they cannot take time to explain. 

For example, before I was married, I was going to meet my fiancee at the duplex we'd rented (where I was living) to talk marriage plans. I pulled in, only to notice about 100 officers. The local sheriff ran up to my car, told me to leave as they were arresting a neighbor. I could see them charging the door with weapons drawn. I said "yes sir--oh, my fiancee is coming here soon". He said "no, I already sent her away--leave now." No problem--I left, found my fiancee, took her to dinner, went back and found that the nighbor had slipped out the back door. The officers said we were safer than we'd ever been--they finally caught the guy about 2am. He had moved in with the girl that lived in the other half of the duplex. The sheriff and some other officers all thanked us for cooperating despite their rather brusque behavior--they were trying to catch a wanted felon and needed us gone for our own safety. Lesson learned: sometimes what appears to be rudeness is really just an urgent need for you to obey. 

I've had one bad experience with an officer, but several positive. Keep this in mind--you don't always know what's going on. The officer may seem rude, but he/she may also know there's about to be gunfire--might be best to listen. 

I can't defend anyone being rude--but without complete knowledge, I listen. Especially since they have guns...


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## Handlobraesing (Feb 22, 2006)

My urban exploration partner (we're both students) got stopped by university rental cops when they spotted him walking around with his 4D Maglite in a holster :rock:


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## SuperNinja (Feb 22, 2006)

Numbers said:


> AJ
> I dont know where your percentages come from


I was just about to say the same thing.

The % of "bad" cops (or perhaps normally good cops sometimes overstepping their bounds) may be low, but I would say that 1% is a definite underestimate.


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## Lightraven (Feb 22, 2006)

I don't think there is anything wrong with shining a spotlight around at night, assuming it is not towards people or into windows. In fact, I brought my Costco HID on a walk with my parents and the dog last December. I have seen another guy carrying a Thor with his dogs to investigate trespassers on his ranch. Our guys found and arrested the trespassers. 

I have had a police officer question me and tell me I was doing something "weird" a few years ago--laying in the grass under a tree next to a neighborhood sidewalk after running four miles. Seems normal to me. Hell, maybe exercise is weird these days. But it didn't bother me (much), because the officer was trying to determine whether I was committing a crime, not insult me. Challenging me by saying my actions are "weird" is a technique to see what my reaction is. Do I get nervous or lie? Do I admit to committing some crime? Or do I just shrug my shoulders like, "Whatever."

It may seem rude to someone who hasn't done this job, but at work, I sometimes ask questions in a rapid, brusque manner. Sometimes I make comments that are rude or hostile to get people to tell me the truth. I find that criminals act different from innocent people when they are put under pressure. I know most people believe that cops are "public servants" who should be polite all the time, but we wouldn't arrest many criminals that way.


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## SuperNinja (Feb 22, 2006)

Lightraven said:


> I know most people believe that cops are "public servants" who should be polite all the time, but we wouldn't arrest many criminals that way.


Well, there is also the other side of the coin:
There are a significant amount of cases where even after being proven wrong, the cop still insists on defending his actions, simply because he/she can't stand to admit a mistake.


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## Lightraven (Feb 22, 2006)

There is a lot of gray area in this job, where right and wrong are all relative to the observer. There isn't a book that says what is right and wrong, it's what your peers think is right, what the brass thinks is right, what the majority public thinks is right, what the minority public think is right, what criminals think is right, what appellate court and supreme court justices think is right. 

That's a lot of people to satisfy.

Still, I screwed up royally (an off-the-wall mistake) once and admitted it and payed the price without trying to defend my actions. Everybody is different.


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## nemul (Feb 22, 2006)

zespectre said:


> What's the quick n' dirty "litmus test" for this case? You hassle them just a little. Almost every time the basically good kid might be upset, but will control it. The bad kid will go apeshit almost every damn time and give you the reason you're waiting for so you can investigate further.



more like, "entrapment test"

Meaning #1: a defense in which claims the defendant would not have
broken the law (or go apeshit) if not tricked into doing it by law enforcement officials


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## CLHC (Feb 22, 2006)

A group of us were looking for a late night Tacqueria. My friend wanted to "test" the "throw" on my SureFire at the SJPD ASU circling above. They spotlighted us back, and in a firm "commanding" voice over the mic, told us not to ever do that in the future. We didn't move, and all the while my friend with SF.M6 in one hand, held both his hands high till they flew away. That was all.

The other incident doesn't involve lights but speeding in excess of 120mph outside of Gonzalez California at 2:00AM in the morning. We were pulled over by two (2) CHP officers in their Ford Mustang 5.0 and WE (3 of us) were the ones that were "lit" up by their lights. One of the officers, it _seemed_ at that time to us, came off wanting to start something by his demeanor. No wise cracking on our part but full cooperation.

I think if one drives over 85mph it's one of those matters where the law bearer will accost and impound the vehicle, I think. I forgot that the car we were driving in was registered to the Atherton PD. So when that announcement came over their radios, they gave us a stiff warning and then decided to "peel out" on both sides, with gravel and burnt rubber all hitting the car we're in and sped off. None of us in the car were/are employed with any law enforcement agency. But my friend who owns the car does/did at that time.

That was it.


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## nc987 (Feb 22, 2006)

So I have this SF 10x Dominator im going to test out. I drive to a nearby park that closes at 10 PM, which is clearly posted at the park entrance. Its currently 9:15. I park my car and im opening my door when my entire car is lit up by a blinding light and a voice. " You need to leave", it turn and cover my eyes and its a park officer with his door mounted light fully on aimed at me with both head lights also blinding me. I tell him the park closes in 45 minutes and i dont appreciate being blinded and il be gone in 10. He tells me to leave again, at this point im pretty pissed at having these lights in my eyes so I ask him " how do you like it?". I hit him with my 10X dominator from about 40 feet. Boy you should have seen the look on his face. long story short, i get out of my car, walk to where i wanted to test the light, while he sits in his car and waits. I respect most law enforcment individuals, its when they treat me like poop, or try to enforce something they dont need to be worrying about that really irks me.


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## markdi (Feb 22, 2006)

cpf is so pro cop that I am amazed this thread is not closed already.


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## Valhalla (Feb 22, 2006)

I've had good and bad experiences with the police. Here's two examples.

The bad first. I was driving to my mom's house at around 4pm on a 4 lane road separated by a grass median. The HPD patrol car was in the right lane and I was in the left lane a cars length behind the patrol car, and there was other traffic as well, all traveling 30-35 mph in a 30 zone. No one passed the patrol car and everyone maintained their speed. A car ahead of the patrol car signaled for a right turn. The patrol car slow downed and tried to change into my lane without a signal and without looking back at the blind spot. I had maintained my speed and as his tires rumbled over the lane dividers, he looked into his blind spot and found me in the lane. He swerved back into his lane and as I passed, the lights immediately came on. I pulled over at a break in the median, and the driver immediately got out of his car and approached my car briskly, almost running. He yelled at me "What the hell are you doing?! Why the hell are you speeding?!":huh: He was royally pissed that he almost hit me. His partner had to pull him away from my car. After a couple of minutes, his partner came back and asked the same questions but more politely. He did not ask for my drivers license or insurance. I pointed out to him that I was not speeding and that his partner almost sideswiped my car without signaling and without checking his blindspot . His only response was "Slow down and be careful next time son". They had no reason to stop me other than being pissed off that they almost caused an accident. I know they did not run my plate before exiting their vehicle, so I could have been a weapon carrying slimeball ready to take their lunch, but lucky for them, I wasn't. :devil: :nana: 

The good. My wife, two seventy pound dogs, and I are traveling home to DFW area from Houston at around 10pm. There is light traffic on the interstate and the wife and dogs are asleep. I could never do this while she is awake, so I steadily increase my speed to triple digits. Not smart on a dark highway with no radar dectector. I hustle along and catch a glimpse of a red and blue ficker on the other side of the highway. I remember there not being an emergency crossover for some distance back and maintain my speed hoping to make the split on the highway 4 miles ahead:devil:  . Close to the split, there is moderate traffic and I slow to 70 mph, all the while looking for the DPS cruiser's light bar. If I see red/blue in the rearview mirror, I now I'm busted. I see the headlights of a crown vic pulling beside each car behind me and slowing down for just a second. He pulls up to me and then inches ahead and looks at my HID headlights through his side window. My HID lights have turned me in! He pulls back behind me and turns on his light bar. The DPS officer is very polite during the entire incident and lets me go with a warning for speeding over 65 mph . Here I am, blatantly going triple digits, endangering the occupants of my car and other cars on the road and I get a warning. The only thing I can figure is that by the time he caught up to me, I was four miles away from where he clocked me and he was not sure if he had the right car. For all he knows the car that he clocked, could be miles down the highway and my car was the first car with HID lights that he caught up to.


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## SuperNinja (Feb 22, 2006)

Lightraven said:


> There is a lot of gray area in this job, where right and wrong are all relative to the observer. There isn't a book that says what is right and wrong, it's what your peers think is right, what the brass thinks is right, what the majority public thinks is right, what the minority public think is right, what criminals think is right, what appellate court and supreme court justices think is right.


Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of some cases that I have heard/read about, of where people were in prison, but were finally released many years later due to DNA evidence that completely excluded them, but the cop(s) that did the arrest still insisted they got the right guy.


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## Navck (Feb 22, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Yes, Navck, you'll be laughing as the cuff you and put you in the back of the cruiser. :shakehead:
> 
> Infidel, name-calling won't get you far in this forum. If you want to go that route, the UG is the venue.



Green, you don't get my joke
"What if the policeman was a CPFer"
Imagine having the police car pulling up next to you while you have your Thor, and instead of telling you turn it off, you eat a miniHID in the face and a CPFer laughing at your Thor


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## Safety1st (Feb 22, 2006)

InfidelCastro said:


> I think delivery drivers (like me) get killed alot more than cops. As do night cashiers. So do alot of other professionals.
> 
> I think alot of the animosity towards police officers comes from them always trying to put themselves above others. And constantly making themselves out to be heros.




I didn't see many pizza delivery guys running BACK into the world trade centre, to help others.....did you?


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## Safety1st (Feb 22, 2006)

Policing is like every occupation...there are good and bad...

Thankfully, the majority are good...but that's usually the case in life..

The majority of barbers are good, waitresses, band clerks etc...it's only the bad ones that you remember and write about on discussion forums...


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## Valhalla (Feb 22, 2006)

BackBlast said:


> I can't help but feel this is a little disparaging of the protections given to individuals. As bad as it is to see a guilty man free based on some protection of personal liberty, it is far far worse to punish an innocent man - might as well _be_ a criminal. You probably didn't intend this, but I thought I'd share.


 
I whole heartedly agree with BackBlast.

Regarding the "Litmus Test" of zespectre.

It is lamentable for an officer to use the "litmus test" when questioning someone who has not committed a crime. I understand that officers are always on high alert to protect themselves from danger, so civility will be returned with civility and hostility with hostility. This is not to say that officers should not ask the questions they are obliged to ask or not do what their obligated to do, but to do it in a manner that provokes the least hostility, whether from a normal Joe Schmoe or the dirtiest of criminals. 

An officer can be civil and on high alert at the same time. It would be in the officers best interest to not provoke hostility and to make a clean arrest. If a normal Joe Schmoe or criminal thinks that an officer is not alert because the officer is civil in his approach and they try something stupid, then they would be mistaken. 

I can say that I had dealings with both types of LEOs and prefer the ones that are civil. If the officer in my earlier post had no badge and uniform, and if he had physically assaulted me, it would not have ended so pretty for him. 

If there was a hardened criminal behind the wheel, and the officer exploded the way he did, the criminal may not hold his badge and uniform in such respect and the outcome could be costly. Again, civility with alertness will usually be the road of least resistance for LEOs.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Safety1st (Feb 22, 2006)

Flakey said:


> "You ever heard of surefire? here take a look at this its a C3, do you think you would have a use for this?"



Haha...I did exaclty the same thing this evening...

I was in the custody area of the police station..(i'd taken in a burglary suspect from a traffic stop on the motorway(freeway).....

Also in the custody area were some HM Customs and Excise officers in plain clothes. One of them had a 4 cell maglight in a holster, which looked very uncomfortable..

I introduced myself and before you know it...the C3 had been taken out of it's pouch on my body armour...and was undergoing a demonstration....:rock:


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

Safety1st said:


> I didn't see many pizza delivery guys running BACK into the world trade centre, to help others.....did you?




Your point is?


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## Blindspot (Feb 22, 2006)

I went for a walk around my house last night with my new 35w Harbor Freight. I was shining it around at trees and things when suddenly **** Cheney lept out from behind a Bush (I think it was George) and blasted me in the face with about 200 red hot bits of birdshot. What an unpleasent feeling! He claimed the orange color of the HF body made me look like a parakeet.

Oh, after I recovered, I noticed that the HF 35w is heavy, and the included shoulder strap was not included. I guess I have to send off an email to HF in the morning.

I also had an Ultra Stinger with me....what a dull, yellow, weak light that is! And to think, it seemed so bright before I started tossing that 35w beam around....


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## beezaur (Feb 22, 2006)

I think the deal with LEOs putting themselves above others and holding themselves as heroes stems from the fact that they have to be placed above others in order to be effective. Doing things that others cannot or will not do induces a significant amount of pride in one's work. Each of those can be taken as a good or a bad thing.

When it comes right down to it, you have a group of people who are men and women just like us, except that they have been asked to do extraordinary things. They could not function without being "put above others" in one way or another.

Another thing that I see is that an authoritative force needs to be metered out exactly in proportion to the need, otherwise you have one of two sitations: a force which is not capable of doing its job, or a force which is under-tasked and turns its efforts on undeserving targets: "Idle hands are the devil's playground," as they say.

I grew up with a woman who became a State Trooper. She has a reputation for having quite the chip on her shoulder, gets into a lot of fights. She has a thing for "abusing" drunk drivers. That's perfectly ok by me (the most likely way for a man to lose his wife is a motor vehicle crash) -- so long as she doesn't run out of drunks. At that point she becomes a problem.

Scott


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## Shovelrider (Feb 22, 2006)

Usually the slower the precinct the more attitude they have. When you work in a busy house you have more then enough scum ot occupy your time you don't have to hurt the working guy(or girl!) That being said I work midnights in a busy house and if I see a guy out at night shining a light it is certainly worth investigating and I think all here would agree. As far as the attitude I offer no excuse for my fellow LEO other than they may have just come of a bad job and been in a less than pleasant mood.

P.S. most of us don't look at ourselves as heros. It's the same as when I was in the Army it's a job "A hero is a sandwich"


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## Woods (Feb 22, 2006)

To all those who serve and have served....THANK YOU! There will always be the odd anomaly...the 1%...but I'll vouch 100% for my personal LEO / Fire / Rescue friends. They serve to protect and save lives.

Perhaps the next time someone is walking somewhere and is questioned by the people keeping them safe and they feel "violated" then they should move to some 3rd world ghetto where they'd be gangraped and stabbed walking down a similar street because of the _lack _of law enforcement.


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## InfidelCastro (Feb 22, 2006)

Woods said:


> Perhaps the next time someone is walking somewhere and *is questioned by the people keeping them safe* and they feel "violated" then they should move to some 3rd world ghetto where they'd be gangraped and stabbed walking down a similar street because of the _lack _of law enforcement.




Here we go again..


Btw, does anybody else think this thread maybe belongs in the CAFE? Been seeing alot of threads that are political in nature lately, and I think it's making this place grumpy and moody..


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## greenLED (Feb 22, 2006)

Woods said:


> Perhaps the next time someone is walking somewhere and is questioned by the people keeping them safe and they feel "violated" then they should move to some 3rd world ghetto where they'd be gangraped and stabbed walking down a similar street because of the _lack _of law enforcement.





Infidel, with comments like that, the UG is where this is headed. 
Woods, nice world perspective... :green:


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## dano (Feb 22, 2006)

Yup. This thread has moved beyond the scope of CPF and the General *Flashlight* Forum. 

I'm closing this one before it gets too out-of-control, but someone can revive it UG...

--dan


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