# PLEASE HELP: Animal eye reflections - LED/incan??



## Sprinkles (Oct 8, 2010)

I'm hoping there are people on CPF that can help....I've seen a lot of posts indicating there are members here that live in "wilderness" or at least in places with active wildlife. 


Here's the situation:

I live in Sacramento, CA. Granted, it's not wilderness by any stretch, but we do have the American River running through the city/metro area. The whole stretch links the Sierra Nevada mountains to the mouth of the Sacramento River. It provides a relatively secure, protected thoroughfare for animals of all kinds. There are the typical birds, beavers, otter, squirrels, possum, raccoon, and other smaller animals. But then there are other, larger ones too. Deer are VERY active in the area, roaming onto busy streets daily. Coyote are common, and typically offer no threat unless you have a small tasty treat with you (ie. small dog). Those are now the LEAST of my concerns. 

In the past, there have been sightings of mountain lion along the American River Parkway. They are rare and far between. There have been sightings within the last month. Fish & Game/Park Rangers have posted signs around the trails warning bikers/walkers of the danger. 

Also, between a friend and me, we've had multiple sightings of another animal, not yet identified. I would best describe it as a larger, taller coyote. The problem is that coyotes here don't get that big. We fear it MAY be a wolf/hybrid. We're not sure. 

Yesterday, we were out and spotted an animal. It was just at sunset, and we were packing up to leave. I saw some eyes reflecting back at us from about 120 yards down a dirt parking lot. The only light I had accessible was a P2D. It was not quite enough to reach and illuminate the body of the animal. Needless to say, I know it was not a deer. 



Here's what I'm looking for:

I want to know if anyone has noted a difference in color/tint reflected in an animal's eye when using incan vs. led light. Or when using different tinted led light (eg. warm, bluish, greenish). (I don't mean blue leds, I mean white leds with blue tint.)


I'm beginning to compile a list of what I colors are reflected by what animals. I'm trying to be as specific as I can, listing animal, color, and type of light with tint included. 

If you have ANYTHING to contribute, please do. The parkway here is VERY popular, and it is very important for me to share any information I can with the local game warden. He is friends with my friend, and would appreciate any additional information we can give him. 

THANKS!!


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## sunspot (Oct 8, 2010)

All the deer in my area reflect green. House cats differ as green, yellow, golden and red. I hope this helps a bit.


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## UberLumens (Oct 8, 2010)

For the most part it depends more on the animal.

dogs are a common and easily found example, some have eyes that shine back red some blue, some have one of each.

Any generalizations on color to determine animal type would be very inaccurate. you would have a better chance by estimating size and shape of what you see reflecting back.

Nocturnal animals will reflect better though due to the very nature of what they need to see in the dark


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## Vesper (Oct 8, 2010)

Here's a similar post from 2007:

Identifying animals in the dark by the color of their eyes?
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/166694

A few more good external ones:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7582&highlight=eye+reflection

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/wrcp/wildnotes/winter0708/eyeshine-pg20108.html


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## Sprinkles (Oct 8, 2010)

sunspot said:


> All the deer in my area reflect green. House cats differ as green, yellow, golden and red. I hope this helps a bit.



Are you using incan or led light? Can you test either/both? 




Vesper said:


> Here's a similar post from 2007:
> 
> Identifying animals in the dark by the color of their eyes?
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/166694



Actually I read that already, and it's not all that helpful. Basically, it poses the same questions I had, but there aren't really any useful answers. The incan vs led didn't get addressed, and there were only a few pictures - dog and possum. I also had found the other two articles/pages before, and they're not entirely helpful either. There's a lack of information, pertinent to what I'm looking to accomplish, in each of those sources. 




I do understand the occurrence and production of "eyeshine" in animals. It's a relatively simplistic result of reflection based on the layering of "light recycling" tissue found in many (not all) nocturnal, and some diurnal, animals, but it is definitely not simple to use to categorize the distinction of color amongst a particular species. There is no specific chart to look at to determine "what animal did I see?" That's not really the attempt here. I am trying to gather AS MUCH information as I can to see if there are ANY correlations/frequencies/consistencies to be made, even if they are not completely accurate. They might aid in making a decision when a potentially dangerous situation arises. I would not advise using anything like this to assure safety, only to make a "better?" informed decision when reacting to something in the night. 


If you post information, can you please include the type of light used - and if there is a species involved, please include that too. eg. Deer (White-Tailed) - LED - White


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## UberLumens (Oct 8, 2010)

I think i get it, you want to go do the legwork and make a chart right?

In that case bring both!
but
The only difference from LED to incan is the same difference everywhere else. Green is still green, red is still red, just slightly different cri. 

(lack of IR light from LED wont matter as you would need a camera/tool to see the refection of it anyway)

Getting a protocol will be tough as even a litter of puppies from the same mother can all have different reflection colors, so getting a defined color to a species may be near impossible

-------
There may be other reasons to choose one over the other though.
Keeping in mind you may not want to get too close to an critter to ID it, Incan may win because of the abundance of throw available
-------

Maybe take a trip to the zoo and see the big cats for a control group and start testing, post some pics if you do would be interested in seeing them.


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## Sprinkles (Oct 8, 2010)

In a nutshell, yes. 

I was trying to establish whether LED or incan made a difference when reflected off the tissue. Given the shorter wavelength produced by and LED, I was concerned about controlling the information coming in. I just wanted to ensure there was not a difference in color perception when using the two light sources. 


If you look at hunting forums, etc., there are always people who are posting information like this, but it's not entirely useful because the species may be different and no light source is sighted. There are enough factors involved in coloration that would make species identification, without details, impossible. I am approaching it from the perspective: Maybe there is a relationship in coloration amongst a particular species, in a particular area, and can that information be extrapolated to form a crude basis for analyzing data in other areas. 

YES - this is not truly scientific, and YES it's actually pretty involved. I'm no scientist/researcher, but I do like knowledge when it might prove helpful. I'm more than happy to do my best compiling what I can. I've already started some. 


Pictures are always welcome.


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## Sprinkles (Oct 8, 2010)

UberLumens said:


> Getting a protocol will be tough as even a litter of puppies from the same mother can all have different reflection colors, so getting a defined color to a species may be near impossible



True, there tends to be MUCH greater variation in adolescent and immature animals. I would figure most of the animals roaming around at night aren't going to be young enough to have the variations you're talking about still evident. Although, if they were different, then it would at least aid in proving that there IS NOT a useful application in spotlighting based on eye color.


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## Ken_McE (Oct 9, 2010)

Sprinkles said:


> I want to know if anyone has noted a difference in color/tint reflected in an animal's eye when using incan vs. led light. Or when using different tinted led light (eg. warm, bluish, greenish). (I don't mean blue leds, I mean white leds with blue tint.)



An incan light will have a truer and more even mix of frequencies. This ought to permit the target eye to show with the highest accuracy. LEDs tend to have narrow spectrums, this may distort what you see reflected. For example, you shine a cool white LED beam at an animal whose eyes will reflect red light. Cool white LEDs have almost no red light in them. You walk away incorrectly thinking that animal has non-reflective eyes.



> I'm beginning to compile a list of what I colors are reflected by what animals. I'm trying to be as specific as I can, listing animal, color, and type of light with tint included.


You have a problem in that this is all ancedotal data. "Well, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was a ..." I suggest you talk to all of the local animal control officers and nuisance critter removal guys in your area. Every town has them. Tell all of them you want to come around and test every animal they catch for reflectance. Set up standard tests. Offer them a copy of the finished results for their trouble. This will give you firm IDs and a good sample size.

Some factors you may want to record in your observations beside species are age/sex/health/time of year. These could all influence results.


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## yellow (Oct 10, 2010)

every animal I shined else Led or incan on did give the usual green reflection
except for my black German longhair, where the reflections were orange

--> the COLOR of the reflection is no indicator for whatever and makes no sense to do anything with it


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## AnAppleSnail (Oct 10, 2010)

yellow said:


> --> the COLOR of the reflection is no indicator for whatever and makes no sense to do anything with it



Sure it is, sometimes. Alligators shine red and frogs shine yellow - awfully handy to know when you're out getting froglegs for dinner.


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## Ken_McE (Oct 10, 2010)

yellow said:


> --> the COLOR of the reflection is no indicator for whatever and makes no sense to do anything with it



:Citation needed :nana:


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## EdgarAdrian (Oct 13, 2010)

sunspot said:


> All the deer in my area reflect green. House cats differ as green, yellow, golden and red. I hope this helps a bit.


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