# PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH (UPDATED 11-04-05)



## Sway (Oct 26, 2005)

*LuxIII RTP's*

*HIGH SETTING*
Duracell Copper Tops supplied with the light 1 hour and 30 minutes in regulation, low power blinks were observed 1:23 into the run.








*HIGH SETTING*
Sanyo 2500mAh NiMH cells 24 hours off a fresh charge 3 hours and 35 minutes in regulation, low power blinks were observed at the same time it dropped out of regulation. 







*11-04-05 UPDATE*
*LOW SETTING*
Sanyo 2500 NiMH cells, 7 days off a fresh charge 11 hours and 30 minutes in regulation, low power blinks were observed at the same time it dropped out of regulation. I also ran this plot with cells fresh out of the charger and it ran for 12 hours for a gain for 30 minutes :shrug: Not a very realistic test but I was just curious what the loss would be after a week on the shelf. 

*Part 1*





*Part 2*






*UPDATE 11-08-05*
*HIGH SETING*
Energizer e2 Titanium Cells
This was a bumpy ride but I don't think you would notice it with your eye. Sorry I missed the low power blinks but it looks like it dropped out of regulation around 2 hours and 10 mins. These cells had the longest slope of any between drop out and flat line.







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*5mm LED's RTP's*

*HIGH SETTING*
Panasonic _Plus_ Alkaline cells, use by date on the package 2009. 5 hours and 20 minutes in regulation, low power blinks were observed at the same time it dropped out of regulation







*HIGH SETTING*
Sanyo 2500 NiMH cells, this plot ran for 8 hours I had to start another when it ran out :sweat:
*Part 1* 





*Part 2*
Add in a few minutes between plots for the screen capture and the start of the second run and it's dead on 9 hours in regulation, again low power blinks were observed at the same time it dropped out of regulation.






Enjoy!

Later
Kelly


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## LVC2 (Oct 26, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH*

Thanks for posting the RTPs! I'm glad you did because I didn't realize that NiMHs would perform that much better than the alkalines. I usually run lithium AAs in my headlamps but I may have to change my strategy a bit! Thanks again.


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## NoFair (Oct 27, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH*

Great runtimes Sway, thanks for taking the effort to do them and posting them here.
I always use NiMh in my headlamps. Really happy that the Apex did this well with them. I usually keep a set of lithiums as spares, but since even the NiMh handle cold pretty well they are rarely used.

I will probably not use alkalines in this light unless I forget my charger or some other unlikely event

Sverre


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## Phreeq (Oct 27, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH*

Thanks for the runtime plots, Kelly.
Over 3hrs on rechargeable cells...
Now I'm really looking forward for my two PT Apex which are on it's way.
I'll use my Titanium 2400 mAh NiMH cells in these and use BS Lithium AA as spares.


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## jtice (Oct 27, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH*

Great plots Sway.
The Nimhs really whopped butt there !!


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## Sway (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH*

RTP added for the 5mm LED's on high 

Later
Kelly


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## LVC2 (Oct 31, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH (UPDATED 10-31-05)*

Has PT published a claimed runtime (in regulation) for the 5mm LEDs on low? The only claims I've seen have been for total run time which, by their definition, is the total time the lamp is capably of producing .25 lux at 2 meters.

Edited to add another thanks to Sway for the RT plots!


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## Sway (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH (UPDATED 10-31-05)*



LVC2 said:


> Has PT published a claimed runtime (in regulation) for the 5mm LEDs on low? The only claims I've seen have been for total run time which, by their definition, is the total time the lamp is capably of producing .25 lux at 2 meters.
> 
> Edited to add another thanks to Sway for the RT plots!



LVC2 I haven’t seen anything else on run times either except what PT says on the package, since the light is regulated I do wish they would publish run times in regulation with a specific battery. I have a plot up and running now with the 5mm LED’s on high using the 2500mAh Sanyo NiMH cells, I will try and get it posted later today. So far I’m really liking this headlamp  

I plan on making a plot with the 5mm LED’s on low hopefully sometime this week if I get the time.

Later
Kelly


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## mrme (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH (UPDATED 11-01-05)*

Can you contimue the test past the point of falling out of regulation? I am always concerned with the warning and time a light gives you to get the battereis changed before it goes out.


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## Sway (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH (UPDATED 11-01-05)*



mrme said:


> Can you contimue the test past the point of falling out of regulation? I am always concerned with the warning and time a light gives you to get the battereis changed before it goes out.



mrme sure 

Note to Kelly: Stop being so impatient.


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## NoFair (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH (UPDATED 11-01-05)*

Keep up the good work Kelly it's us being impatient

PS! Could you please maybe do a runtime test with NiMh and the Luxeon on low? 

Sverre


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## Sway (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH (UPDATED 11-01-05)*



NoFair said:


> Keep up the good work Kelly it's us being impatient
> 
> PS! Could you please maybe do a runtime test with NiMh and the Luxeon on low?
> 
> Sverre



Sure, I don't know how I'm going to do it yet other than plan my weekend around it :nana:

Later
Kelly


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## NoFair (Nov 3, 2005)

*Re: PT Apex Run Time Plots Alkaline/NiMH (UPDATED 11-01-05)*



Sway said:


> Sure, I don't know how I'm going to do it yet other than plan my weekend around it :nana:
> 
> Later
> Kelly



Thanks Kelly

Just turn the lights off in one room, put a red filter on the Apex and tell your significant other you're planning a romatic evening

Sverre


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## Sway (Nov 4, 2005)

LuxIII Low Setting RTP added 

Later
Kelly


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## NoFair (Nov 5, 2005)

Thanks Kelly

Great that you take the effort and possible home confrontations  for us.
12 hours with the luxeon on low is great! Often this will be my most used setting. Especially when in the mountain with slightly limited ability to recharge.

Sverre


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## jayflash (Nov 14, 2005)

I'm expecting this Wednesday to be, in addition to "hump" day, the Apex of my week with the arrival of Princton Tec's new headlamp. With the posted photos and RTP's it seems that the Apex will have significant improvements over the Yukon HL. 

The Yukon has been my workhorse but I wonder if it's normal? The 3 LED's provide good, useable, flood but the side emmiting Lux is rather anemic and seems to be declining in output. The Lux draws 280mA compared to 340mA for the 3-5mm LED's. 

The switching for the Apex should be a pleasure compared to the extremely stiff, small, button on the HL. I've been tempted to send the HL to PT to see if the switch and Lux output are normal. 

If my HL doesn't seem normal I'll have it checked out once the Apex arrives. Do any of you have the same problems with your Yukon HL?


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## Sway (Nov 14, 2005)

Comparing the switches on my Yukon HL and Apex, the Yukon switch is just a little stiffer and has more travel. It takes a little to get use to the Apex switches they don’t have as much travel or feel to them, not a real solid “click” like the Yukon. I don’t see this as a problem though just something new to get use too like the press and hold to turn off it’s just different.

I think your going to be real happy with the Apex, the output and beam shape of the LuxIII and 5mm LED’s is better than the Yukon HL. The HL may have a very slight edge in throw due to the reflector but the Apex has a much wider and useable beam, I would by another in a heartbeat  

Later
Kelly


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## GCBStokes (Jan 31, 2007)

I just placed and order for 2 Princeton Tec Apex Headlights. I was planing on ordering bulk AA Lithium Batteries. However, after reading the PT Apex Run Time Plots here, I now have placed an order from Amondotech.com for 2 sets (8 Batteries) of the new Titanium 2700 mAh rechargeable NiMH AA's to try. I also already have 4 sets of the Titanium 2400 mAh rechargeable NiMH AA's that I could use if needed. I'm very impressed with the NiMH runtime plots you did. However, I do have two (2) questions regarding the use of the of NiMH rechargeables, will the light out put be less then with Alkaline AA's, and could I expect even better run time from the new Titanium 2700 mAh over the 2500 mAh batteries that were used in your Run Time Plots?


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## NoFair (Jan 31, 2007)

It is just as bright with NiMH as with alkalines. I can't see any difference and since it is regulated and both set-ups are over the Luxeons Vf it should not matter.

The 2700 mAh should give very slightly longer runtimes than the 2500s, but not much. Higher mAh cells also seem to self-discharge slightly faster so the difference in actual use will be very small. 


I'm going to try to put a Seoul LED in mine to get past 100 lumen on high


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## Phaserburn (Jan 31, 2007)

NoFair said:


> I'm going to try to put a Seoul LED in mine to get past 100 lumen on high


 
Interested to see how difficult this is, and how it turns out!


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## GCBStokes (Jan 31, 2007)

NoFair,

Thanks, that's great news to me! I'll be using the Titanium 2700 mAh rechargeable NiMH AA's in my Princeton Tec Apex Headlights. I'll have two sets with me at all times, a set in the headlights, and a set in the nice little case that comes with the batteries. My Titanium TG-700 AC + DC Smart Rapid Charger can plug into any indoor Outlet, or my vehicles lighter socket to charge batteries. So, when the set in the light are depleted I'll just put in the second set, then charge the first set in my vehical when working in the field, camping or fishing. I'll also have a 4 pack or two of Alkaline AA's for back-up. In cold weather, then I'll use Lithium AA's. This multiple power supply capability is one of the reasons why I picked the Princeton Tec Apex as my new main front-line headlight. After my disappointment with the Petxl Myo XP. It had no regulation, rain would find it's way into the light head. Three of our 6 lights failed after less then one year in the field.

I was looking at the Prineton Tec Apex Pro that uses 2 X CR123A Lithium Batteries. The good think about that is we use CR123A in almost all of our flashlights. However, it would seem that your limited to just CR123A's for power, don't know if you cand use rechargeable CR123A's, and I don't know how well this new light performs. Does any one have the Princeton Tec Apex Pro, and do they have information on real run-time and if you have any other options for power? Let me know, if performance is good enought I may pick one up. From what I know, run-time is better using 4 AA Apex with Lithium AA's in cold weather.


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## NoFair (Jan 31, 2007)

Phaserburn said:


> Interested to see how difficult this is, and how it turns out!



The Seouls are on the way 
Hopefully I won't toast anything putting it together

GCBStokes: My pleasure. 
The AA Apex does handle the voltage from 2 Li-ions so the pro should as well... 
I'm considering making a 2X18650 battery-pack for mine, but I've been so satisfied with the NiMH that I haven't started making it yet... 
I also keep Lithiums as spares for cold weather and emergencies.

Sverre


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## Limelighter (Jan 31, 2007)

GCBStokes said:


> I was looking at the Prineton Tec Apex Pro that uses 2 X CR123A Lithium Batteries. The good think about that is we use CR123A in almost all of our flashlights. However, it would seem that your limited to just CR123A's for power, don't know if you cand use rechargeable CR123A's, and I don't know how well this new light performs. Does any one have the Princeton Tec Apex Pro, and do they have information on real run-time and if you have any other options for power? Let me know, if performance is good enought I may pick one up. From what I know, run-time is better using 4 AA Apex with Lithium AA's in cold weather.


 
Late last summer, when I was considering purchasing the Apex Pro instead of the Apex, I emailed Princeton Tec to ask if it would accept rechargeable CR123As. They sent an email reply to the effect that the Apex Pro would have a shorter burn time than the Apex and that while it would accept rechargeable 123s, the burn time would be shorter (than using primary 123s). I ended up buying the "regular" Apex and not the Apex Pro.


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## GCBStokes (Jan 31, 2007)

Limelighter,

After all thinkings considered, I think I made the right move going with the Prinecton Tec Apex. I had narrowed it down to the Princeton Tec Apex and Apex Pro after looking at and/or trying many headlights. Most in my research group and friends that I packpack, camp and hike with, all agree that the Apex was the best final choice also. In fact 4 of the 6 people I work with will be ordering Princeton Tec Apex Headlamps also. I had ordered two for myself, but my wife just claimed one to be her's. Oh well, when Brightguy.com gets more in stock, I'll order a black one to go with my orange one. I learned the hard way never go backpacking with just one headlight and/or one flashlight. I always have two of each with me. 

About a year ago, my group and I, got 6 Petzl Myo XP headlights for our work. And each of use were very unhappy with them. They had no regulation and had poor water/weather resistance. And the top strap broke on one where it mounts above the lamp head. Less then a year after buying them, 3 of the 6 lights didn't work any more. So, Petzl was not even thought of when looking for new lights this time. We did look at the Black Diamond Icon Headlamp, and it seemed to be a good lamp, it was bright (not nearly as bright as the Apex) but it also had a more narrow beam then the Apex. I like a beam that has good throw, but also a wide spill beam or large spot. Also, the 5 mm LEDs of the Apex seem brighter and have better throw. 

I know people have their own opinion, but to me the Princeton Tec Apex seems to be the best all-around head light out there when all things are considered. I also like the power options you have with the Apex, and I think the Apex's beam has the best combination of throw and wide spill beam. The Apex Pro is just as good I'm sure, but you don't have the power options. So, I think you made the right choice also.

Thanks for your replay.


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## pacnjoe (Feb 27, 2007)

So, I'm confused and could use some clarification. What is the difference in the LUXIII and the 5mm LED's?


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## luminari (Feb 28, 2007)

pacnjoe said:


> So, I'm confused and could use some clarification. What is the difference in the LUXIII and the 5mm LED's?



Looks like the experts are busy, so I'll give a stab at this question. The 5mm LEDs in the Apex/Apex Pro are lower output per LED and give off a more diffuse (floody) beam. They also have more beam tint variation: mine, for example, appear more blue in the very middle, and turn more yellow towards the edges. The two main reasons for having the 5mm LEDs is that you get very long runtimes and also a more diffuse beam.

The Luxeon III is a high flux LED made by Philips Lumileds; on the Apex, it's the big single LED in the middle of the bezel that's designed to handle more power. The color rendering of these high flux LEDs tend to be much better than the 5mm LEDs, as well. In the Apex, the LuxIII is focused using a plastic internal reflection lens to give it a more focused beam than the four 5mm LEDs.

Nowadays, there are generally better alternatives to the Luxeon III, and you may hear of other emitters like the Cree XR-E and the Seoul Semiconductor z-led P4. They typically output twice the amount of total light (lumens, or luminous flux) for the same power compared to a Luxeon III. Still, the luxeon has most of the market share, has some color advantages, and a lot of the innovation started at Lumileds. I've changed the LuxIII in my Apex to a SSC P4 and it appears to be twice as bright in both modes. It's not something that you'd probably want to do right away, though, as it requires soldering and some plier action.


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## luminari (Feb 28, 2007)

Oh, I forgot to write what I was going to write originally:

These charts kick ***, Sway! I fear for your light meter as it looks like a 5mm low run will take like 20 hours on NIMH!


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## raphaelzzz (Dec 16, 2008)

how does the princeton tec apex goes after the regulated time has pass?
is the bright huge reduced?
or the bright reduces slow and continualy?

thx anyone!


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## NoFair (Dec 17, 2008)

raphaelzzz said:


> how does the princeton tec apex goes after the regulated time has pass?
> is the bright huge reduced?
> or the bright reduces slow and continualy?
> 
> thx anyone!


 
It blinks to signal low battery and then decreases gradually in brightness for a very long time. 
I forgot mine turned on outside in the snow and it was still decently bright in the morning 

Sverre


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## raphaelzzz (Dec 18, 2008)

can anyone get the user manual scanned, upload it and post the link here plz?

i know thats boring, but plzzzzzz?!??!?! :naughty:

thx :santa:


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## 9watts (Dec 22, 2011)

luminari said:


> In the Apex, the LuxIII is focused using a plastic internal reflection lens to give it a more focused beam than the four 5mm LEDs.



This is an ancient thread, but I am curious if anyone could explain what Princeton Tec did to coax an increasing amount of lumens out of their Apex headlamp and 4AA batteries. I get the impression that things started out at 60 or 80 lumens and then 130 and now 200. Is this mostly about the LED? 

Thanks.


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## robostudent5000 (Dec 22, 2011)

9watts said:


> This is an ancient thread, but I am curious if anyone could explain what Princeton Tec did to coax an increasing amount of lumens out of their Apex headlamp and 4AA batteries. I get the impression that things started out at 60 or 80 lumens and then 130 and now 200. Is this mostly about the LED?
> 
> Thanks.



they just kept upgrading the main LED. the circuitry has remained mostly, if not completely, the same. the current supplied to the LED's have remained the same, i think. but the luminous efficacy of the LED's used have increased. i think Apex's started out with Luxeon III emitters, then went to a higher bin Lux III, then went to a SSC P4, then eventually a Cree XP-G.


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