# Help with aquarium lighting



## Baadboy11 (Aug 26, 2010)

Howdy ya'll first off i'm a bit of a beginner when it comes to leds, i've been reading for a week straight and am going cross eyed. Anyway building a light for a small planted aquarium that's 12x6x8. I'm stuck between two choices

Choice one....
dx/sku.12721 SSC P7 c-bin 
dx/sku.14034 plus this driver

Choice two...
Three 3W or 5w leds 
and ???? which driver.

Basically choice one will cost me around $22 bucks I believe...so if choice two can be done cheaper i'm all for it. Its gotta be cheap and easy!

Thanks!:twothumbs


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## doctaq (Aug 26, 2010)

go with like two xr-e q5 from dealextreme for like 5 dollarish, each and get the 700ma single led driver and run both in parallel, this will get you into the high end of a planted tank


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 26, 2010)

Hey thanks for the help thats what I needed!

So just to verify... I need one of these
dx/sku.13552"]Driver[/URL]
and two of these
dx/sku.2394"]LED[/URL]

Slap em on a heat sink wired parallel and plug it into 110 outlet (with plug obviously) and grow some plants?


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## blasterman (Aug 26, 2010)

If this is freshwater, a couple cool-white XR-E Q5's at 700mA on a 2.5gallon tank like he said will work fine. Cool white LEDs look really, really by themselves over freshwater while I'll fight to the death they look like crap on salt water

Only problem is your driver. If you really intend to run a mains powered driver like that around a wet fish tank I hope you have good health insurance 

Personally I would get a decent, 700mA enclosed driver. Or, at the least build a nice enclosure around the DX one.

People laugh at me when I use laptop bricks on fish tanks, but they're free, and typically not bothered by water spalshes and such.


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## jason 77 (Aug 26, 2010)

blasterman said:


> If this is freshwater, a couple cool-white XR-E Q5's at 700mA on a 2.5gallon tank like he said will work fine. Cool white LEDs look really, really by themselves over freshwater while I'll fight to the death they look like crap on salt water
> 
> Only problem is your driver. If you really intend to run a mains powered driver like that around a wet fish tank I hope you have good health insurance
> 
> ...



I agree, about the laptop bricks... I've had one supplying power to my fishtanks LEDs for almost 3 years now with no problems at all..


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 26, 2010)

Would this driver from deal extreme work? (with a proper enclosure of course) or is there a better one I should be looking at?

[dx/sku.13552"]Deal extreme Sku 13552[/URL]

if I find a laptop supply what should I be looking for on that? 

Thanks for helping this nubblet:wave:


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## doctaq (Aug 26, 2010)

blasterman said:


> Cool white LEDs look really, really by themselves over freshwater


yeah, they really are really

i mean to drive them to 350ma, by running two in parallel to a 700ma driver..700ma is enough for like 12 inches +


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 26, 2010)

ooh my posts finally showed up...to summerize them a bit
Hey thanks for the help thats what I needed!

So just to verify... I need one of these
dx/sku.13552"]Driver
and two of these
dx/sku.2394"]LED

Slap em on a heat sink wired parallel and plug it into 110 outlet (with plug obviously) and grow some plants? 

Or is there a better driver to use? And if I can find a laptop supply, what should I be looking for?


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## Inkidu (Aug 26, 2010)

Just a couple suggestions. 

I think more led run at a lower amperage (350)

would be best when you consider the amount of time they will be on. 

They will last longer, give a good spread (from what I have read 2" spacing between led is ideal) and the heat will more easily be dissipated. 

So this heat sink might work well. It can hold up to 8 led and would be easy to setup. I never did liked tapping holes. $11

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-85/Drilled-and-Tapped-4.25"/Detail

Also would suggest this meanwell driver (LPLC-18-350 has an IP 67 rating) $10-15

http://www.meanwell.com/search/lplc-18/default.htm

Often cool whites are mentioned for reef tanks but neutral white is closer to 
the Kelvin range of most "grow" lights. (not so sure the ideal FW grow lights) 

Hope this helps.

A cool link if you like FW planted tanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jNTMAf8KTI


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## blasterman (Aug 26, 2010)

> yeah, they really are really


 
I could tell you what I_ really_ think of running two LED's in parallel rather than two in series at 350mA which makes a *lot* more sense, but I was talking to the OP.

I'm also making an assumption the tank is 12" wide -vs- deep. In which case he's fine with two LED's for starters.

A piece of C-channel or even right angle aluminum about 8-10" long and 1x1 should work fine, and a local hardware store can typically cut it for cheap. If the tank *is* a foot long, the you'll probably want to space the LED's about 5-6" apart.

Inkido linked a perfect power supply for this, and it's big enough you can always add more LEDs later if you wish.


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 27, 2010)

Hey thanks for all the help so far....

Blasterman, you are correct about the dimensions of the tank, its 12wX6dX8T

Ok so i'm looking at 2 of the xr-e q5's and the meanwell LPLC-18-350. Sound good?

Should I run the leds parallel or series?

Thanks again fellas


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## Inkidu (Aug 27, 2010)

What plants are you trying to grow? (slow or fast growing) high or low light req.

That will determine what will work well. 

Why xr-e ?

At least as far as I am concerned why not use the newest led i.e. XP-G

After all you are only buying a couple i.e. not much cost difference. 

http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XPG

2 LED seems a little on the dim side, but that matters what you 

are growing.

There would also be the benefit, from stronger lighting, that the plants

do the filtering. After all the first aquariums were natural tanks i.e. planted 

without a filter.

Hope this helps.

Just a suggestion.

XPGWHT-01-3A0-R3-0-01 Neutral

5000 K (Kelvin isn't the be all determining factor for growth but I would think it would be better than cool white.

Cool white is good for reef tanks i.e. they contain a lot of blue light


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## doctaq (Aug 27, 2010)

running two leds of the same type in parallel isnt so bad, especially seeing as that they can handle 700 if one were to somehow be able to hog all of the current, we are talking about 3 dollars vs 16 or 18 dollars. 

350ma will not be dim and will definateley get you into the high light range, ive done it

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229331

i use the same leds on a bigger planted with co2 but just havent gotten around to ferts and the tank is suffering for it


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 27, 2010)

1.Random thought, could I run those two LEDs directly off a wall wart like this?

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-1251/12-VDC-500-MA-REGULATED-POWER-SUPPLY//1.html

2.oh and anyone know where to find the meanwell LPLC-18-350? Seems like everywhere online is outta stock.

3.Doctaq how did you secure the driver in the box for the light you made?

4.Oh and one more question...if I use a gfci outlet will it take some of the risk out of using the dx driver sku:13552?


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## Inkidu (Aug 27, 2010)

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2108736_-1#

$14

Ideally you don't want to rely on a GFCI (you should have one though) 

The Meanwell is potted which prevents contact with any water (the 7 part of

IP 67 rating lets the driver even be submerged in water to 1 meter)

and also allows the heat to dissipate (important considering the long life of a LED)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code

There is nothing wrong with doctaq suggestion ( I am no expert ) for $14

that driver is cheap insurance against water infiltration and a quality manufacture with a 2 year warranty. 

Hope this helps.

No one wants to spend more than they need to but if you set this up with good parts 

you can set it and forget it.


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 27, 2010)

Hey inkidu that helps alot, and I think that is the way I should probably go.... just for curiosity sake can i run an led straight off a wallwart if the volts are high enough and the amps are high enough?


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## Inkidu (Aug 28, 2010)

Baadboy11 said:


> Hey inkidu that helps alot, and I think that is the way I should probably go.... just for curiosity sake can i run an led straight off a wallwart if the volts are high enough and the amps are high enough?



The whole idea behind the driver is that it maintains a constant current. 

As the led heats up resistance will go down thereby drawing more current.

That causes even more heat and the next thing you know you smoked the LED.

I think its called thermal run away ( I am no expert)

You might be able to make it work with resistors but in general its fairly inefficient way of doing it. 

Hope this helps.


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## shhh (Aug 28, 2010)

http://ledsupply.com/docs/reef-tank_diy-instructions.pdf

Can be modified to fit your needs.
Not sure if it will be around what u wanna pay.


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## doctaq (Aug 28, 2010)

if you are going to run it off a wall wart you should have some kind of constant current regulation
heres a crappy guide i wrote as well
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229376

i built a constant current driver for a couple of dollars

the little box i had perfectly fit the driver inside, i put a piece of cardboard on the bottom side and taped the wires together, ive used this same driver inside of light bulb housings so im pretty sure it wont destroy itself with heat. 
i would not go as high as 700 however you end up doing it


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## Inkidu (Aug 28, 2010)

Baadboy11 you got me thinking about this and now I want to build one.

I know you don't want to spend to much so how about this.

10W White High Power 600L LED Lamp Prolight Star (not as good as Cree but cheap and much easier to solder and only one to hook up)
http://cgi.ebay.com/F-10W-White-Hig...587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588919060b

Use the Mean well lplc-18-700 with one of those 10 watt led. ( it will be under powered but that only helps them last longer)

I run a setup with (2) 10 watt LED of a similar design. ( like these better they seem to spread the dies over a greater area) with that driver. 

The LED would be $9 shipped + $14 for the driver =$23

Maybe a cpu heatsink that you could hang. 

Looking over a few posts 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/85359-6g-nano-led-lighting.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/112990-nano-cube-leds-not-another-one.html

and it seems to a point more light would be better. 

You want to actively grow the plants not just keep them alive. 

Opens up more planting options.

And the plants will actively take up fish waste. 

Side note 

The link seems(hard to tell)to show a lack of a spray screen/shield. NOT a great idea.

Hope this helps.


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## doctaq (Aug 28, 2010)

my fixture was used over a glass top so no worries

how big of a tank do you plan on using two 10w leds over?

plants at higher light isnt just about the light, its also about co2 and nutrient ratios


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 28, 2010)

Inkidu, that ten watt was similar to what i wanted to do originally, but the light spread in the tank leaves the edges a little dark, and I think the two crees will be plenty to grow some plants in my little 2.5....heres my original inspiration.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-nano-tanks/113123-show-off-your-3-gallon-smaller.html

See post #9...he's using a P7 with a cheapy dx driver, and it looks pretty awesome.


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 28, 2010)

I just had another thought (I should stop thinking and order some parts but oh well) If I used the cheapy dx driver and globbed some silicone glue over it, would that make it waterproof and safer to be around? Or would it mess up the board?


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## Inkidu (Aug 28, 2010)

doctaq said:


> my fixture was used over a glass top so no worries
> 
> how big of a tank do you plan on using two 10w leds over?
> 
> plants at higher light isnt just about the light, its also about co2 and nutrient ratios



I used them for my algae scrubber (look at post #3 they are on the right) 1 red and 1 white

http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=728

doctaq, I have some knowledge about planted tanks (co2 and nutrient ratios)
that is kind of where I was going with the ? about what plants Baadboy11 would be using. Which would determine how much light to use. 

Baadboy11, cool link gives me some ideas. I like the idea of a small simple/sleek inexpensive tank.

I see what you mean about lite coverage. You seem like you were trying to keep things inexpensive. You could use (2) "10 watt" led with the meanwell driver. If you run them at 700 mA they act more like "7 watt" led.

Those P7 can put out quite a lot if you put the current to them which makes comparisons a little tricky between different size led and configurations. 

but hey it is all what you are shooting for. I am bias toward heavy growth.

(1) I have been a Takashi Amano fan for quite some time and he is known for very heavily lit tanks. 

(2) My discus tank has tremendous green algae growth that I remove from the scrubber/system every 5-7 days. I feed dry food sometimes 10 times a day. Can regular put 4 cubes of frozen in at a time with no nutrient build up. 

Nutrient control is algae control. (words to live by)
Developing your higher order plants to out compete the algae for the nutrients is key. Just my two cents.

Hope this helps and good luck.


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## doctaq (Aug 28, 2010)

please dont tell me that you are santamonica on other forums haha

the thing with using higher powered leds is they are kinda wasteful, more leds being driven at lower current will cover more area and more effeciently. but at the same time, that kinda just makes it back into other lighting forms, spotlighting and dark area, dimming are aspects of led lighting that make it different from other kinds of lighting. 
i use a p7 for a turf scrubber that sits on top of my hob ac50, it was growing it awesome till my snails found the buffet, the culprits have since been removed and the scrubber is making a comeback. are you on any fishy forums? in my links the signatures lead to my two led lit tanks, one planted one reef

i like the aluminum plate, i have done it for a few builds myself, it is just so much easier to drill and tap when there are no fins on the other side


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 28, 2010)

Well I want lush growth, but I also want the tank to be relatively low maintenance... which are some what competing ideas...I'll probably supplement some extra light with the leds for awhile till I get about the growth I want then switch over to the leds to stabilize the tank. As far as lighting I'm shooting for medium to highish light for the leds.

Oh and I'm planning on going the mineralized soil method and hopefully wont be dosing ferts at least in the long run.


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## doctaq (Aug 28, 2010)

id say 350ma would be a good current to drive to then, dose some flourish excell. that'll keep it low maintinence


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## Baadboy11 (Aug 28, 2010)

And what do you think of covering the dx driver with silicone adhesive? would it hurt the driver or would it be ok and make it waterproof? (this will prolly be for a diff. project fyi)


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## doctaq (Aug 28, 2010)

ive only gone so far as to paint the bottom side with liquid eletrical tape, but for the price id say its worth a try, as long as its in a place where you can watch it for a couple of days first, i havent been able to measure the temps of any of the parts since ive only ever used it enclosed. those little drivers are awesome, definateley buy a bunch, there are a ton of drivers on the site though , some are already enclosed and supposedly waterproof


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## Inkidu (Aug 28, 2010)

> please dont tell me that you are santamonica on other forums haha



I am not santamonica. I am enkidu a wild man from the hills. lol

Unless this is a thread of me talking to myself. (notice the date and my join date at the algaescrubber site. (this is the scrubber I own)

http://www.3reef.com/forums/refugium/look-back-aquaricare-algal-filter-78474.html



> i like the aluminum plate, i have done it for a few builds myself, it is just so much easier to drill and tap when there are no fins on the other side



If you go that route notice how Rygh (from previous algae algaescrubber link page 2)uses small heatsinks glue to the back side of the plate. Seems like a good idea to me although I use very large heatsinks that are tapped. Nothing shortens the lifespan of a LED more than heat. Granted its a pain but the way I look at keep your eye on the prize (set it and forget it)

Hope this helps.


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## Julius (Oct 8, 2010)

Inkidu said:


> 10W White High Power 600L LED Lamp Prolight Star (not as good as Cree but cheap and much easier to solder and only one to hook up)
> http://cgi.ebay.com/F-10W-White-Hig...587?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588919060b


OK, that was a good tip! I'm considering buying two of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330470271620
but I was wondering: Do they require extra cooling or what? There are not any in-depth specs on the ebay-page there.

What do you people use to protect such LEDs against water? I.e. how do you make them IP67 (or IP68, even)? Especially regarding the cooling needs I don't know what material could be applied so that it still holds its cooling value..


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## doctaq (Oct 8, 2010)

warm white may not look quite as good as 6500k, although i do have one tank with warm white, i have a lot of tannins in that tank so it just adds to it


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## blasterman (Oct 8, 2010)

> What do you people use to protect such LEDs against water?


 
The best way is to use a splash guard. Some of the reef guys are using rather narrow spots, and hence can keep their lights high up above the water and not get splash problems. However, I run bare LEDs, and run my lights low over the tank, and have to use a sheet of glass to protect them. Salt water will corrode and destroy LEDs in a matter of weeks if not protected. Fresh isn't as bad, but you should still have a splash guard. Hobby stores often sell 1/8 clear plexi sheets for pretty cheap.

For mounting LEDs, a popular method right now is to use thermal pads. Cheap, reliable, makes a good contact, and doesn't involve tapping and drilling. 

I wish I could discourage you guys from those cheap Ebay LEDs. I've used them, and the color is terrible. If you want a lot of light density use Bridgelux.


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## Julius (Oct 9, 2010)

blasterman said:


> I wish I could discourage you guys from those cheap Ebay LEDs. I've used them, and the color is terrible.


If you know those LEDs, what are the exact specs, do they require extra cooling?

And what do you mean by 'terrible color' ?
In my case that's not so much an issue, because I already filled up most colors there are to find, so this would only add light to that. If it's a little on the blue-side or purple-ish or a little pale-yellow-ish I'm not worried, I've got enough good lumen in there to make it look good.

I doubt the 600 lumen is really 600 lumen. So let's say it's about 200, then it adds to the 500 I already have for the specific tank. (See my other message about that here)

Thanks for the info on protecting it, but I wasn't really looking for those two types of shielding it. I mean what type of glue/kit/plastic you spray over contact areas? What type of transparent glues are best for this purpose? (available in Europe, preferably..)


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## Julius (Oct 9, 2010)

blasterman said:


> If you want a lot of light density use Bridgelux.


Not to be annoying or anything, but why is it so hard to find out how to even BUY any of their leds? I mean, really, if they want to sell something, show us how and where! Takes me an hour just to find one of their leds for sale somewhere: http://www.bridgelux.com/products/ledarray.html
And then it takes emailing or something to even know what prices might be. Please! Give us a break already.
It's so annoying that I'd rather buy something on ebay I *know* I will have in my posession a few days after immediately being able to buy it.

Some sellers simply do not know what the buyer wants. They think they can have the arrogance of making it hard to find for the buyer, well sorry, but I have more important things to do with my time than negotiating prices and all that, so no, you're wrong. I'll buy something else instead of bridgelux.


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## jason 77 (Oct 9, 2010)

Julius said:


> Not to be annoying or anything, but why is it so hard to find out how to even BUY any of their leds?



Um what are you talking about? I buy bridgelux's all the time, I get them here..

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=401&Ntk=PLS_MAN_BRAND_NAME&Ntt=BRIDGELUX&isRedirect=true

There is even a direct link to newark's website on bridgelux's own website?


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## blasterman (Oct 9, 2010)

> If you know those LEDs, what are the exact specs, do they require extra cooling?


 
How long is a piece of string? 

Chinese white emitters are a crap-shoot in terms of color and brightness, although you can roughly plan on 60-70lumens per watt - tops. The actual casing is pretty well built and easy to solder though. I get my Chinese 10watt 445nm's this way, and they are well made. 

Still, I don't get the facination with these Ebay emitters given they just aren't economical and color is all over the place. IMHO, they should only cost a couple Euros or dollars given that's what they are worth. I use what works and could care a less about brand, but the big Ebay emitters just don't work out economically compared to Bridgelux if you need cheap firepower.

Bridgelux's site has a 'Buy Online' link, which takes you to Farnell. Here's Farnell / UK and all their Bridgelux emitters. 

Silicone spray is the only material I know of that's currently used with DIY LED arrays and sprayed directly on the components to reduce moisture penetration. Doesn't mean other things would work - just the only thing I know that's being readily used.


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## Julius (Oct 9, 2010)

blasterman said:


> Bridgelux's site has a 'Buy Online' link, which takes you to Farnell. Here's Farnell / UK and all their Bridgelux emitters.


I did already check that site. Problem is:
- The search and filtering on the search doesn't work.
- All bridgelux leds they offer are a tiny selected few, all with strange forward Voltages I don't need. No mention of the cooling requirements either by the way.
- Delivery time is completely unclear (they are only reselling them), while my general experience with Hong Kong and ebay is that *everything* I order from there arrives within 6 days here in Amsterdam, NL. (In contrast to that: Shipments from the UK are a complete gamble, some things never arrive at all, some things take ten days or a month to arrive, and some 3 days.. pretty annoying.)
- I have very good LED experiences with ebay sellers like besthongkong.

Those ebay LEDs haven't been properly reviewed or tested here that I could find, yet some here claim to 'know' them. I don't see why it would be such bad quality, what's the big difference between those and the bridgelux ones? Have you ever honestly checked the production lines of those bridgelux leds? Are you *sure* it's not the same factory of that ebay seller?

I bought this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330481284938&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT for only $8.25 including shipment!
After checking the bridgelux spectral graphs I see they all have huge spikes in the blue, I don't expect that to be much better than the ones I ordered at angel.edeal (which have a wider viewing angle too by the way, which is exactly what I need).

But I digress, until I've tested them I'll tell you all about it. I don't think 600 lumen for 10 Watts at $8.25 is that bad a deal.


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## blasterman (Oct 10, 2010)

> No mention of the cooling requirements either by the way.


 
Bridgelux has pretty elaborate and detailed thermal descriptions under the design notes on their sites. It's probably the best information I've seen on the topic published so far by an LED maker. They publish exact heatsink sizes for their entire line.



> Those ebay LEDs haven't been properly reviewed or tested here that I could find


 
That's because those of us that have used them aren't wasting our time. I've yet to see two of the darn things that are even close to each other, and it's common knowledge they aren't that good. I have several Bridgelux 402's, and they are not only as bright as the chinese LEDs but the color is way better.



> what's the big difference between those and the bridgelux ones?


 
Bridgelux emitters perform to spec because they are highly competitive in the commercial fixture market where consistency is critical. The Chinese ones have no specs, and will vary all over the place in terms of color. What do they care - they sell them to kids on Ebay. They also wont take the thermal or voltage of the Bridgelux, which I confirmed first hand since I've managed to burn out some of the chinese versions with little effort.



> After checking the bridgelux spectral graphs I see they all have huge spikes in the blue,


 
So, the Bridgelux are defective because their white LEDs emit blue, right?



> All bridgelux leds they offer are a tiny selected few, all with strange forward Voltages I don't need


 
Bridgelux lists pretty exact forward voltages. The 402 for example gives a nominal forward voltage of '9.5' . The Chinese emitter says '10-12'. If that's 'strange' on the part of the American LED, then I don't have anything further to add, and won't.


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## Julius (Oct 10, 2010)

blasterman said:


> Bridgelux lists pretty exact forward voltages. The 402 for example gives a nominal forward voltage of '9.5' . The Chinese emitter says '10-12'. If that's 'strange' on the part of the American LED, then I don't have anything further to add, and won't.


Again: The ones offered on the reseller website for Europe are not the ones you can buy in the US. And not the ones I can put to use.

I think you've missed the part where I state I can strictly feed them with a 12,13 or 14.0 VDC source, and need to put them where there is not much room. This is because they belong to a chain of power-channels (for LEDs) that are programmed by a timer-board (to mimic sunrise and sundown and other things like that).

If I would need to build extra drivers all economics are lost in my setup either way. I can add the 10 Watt LEDs because

a) they're small enough
b) they can be fed from my existing high efficiency stabilized power-source channels
c) they're not the only color source for this aquarium, just an addition to others. I already illuminate the freshwater tank with far-red, deep-red, red, red-orange, orange, yellow, yellow-amber, warm white (several types of LEDs with different peaks), neutral white (same story), green, RGB, blue, navy-blue, UV, *all* from LED sources because the main reason for me to use LED is the fact that this light source does not flicker in any way or form. Which is why I have a special ripple-free power-source in play.
I've been doing research on fish and their response to flickering light-sources. Turns out it's pretty damn stressful for most tropical freshwater fish, contrary to popular belief. Most aquarium-owners are using T5 or T8 tubes, which are horribly stressful for most animals. See some flicker info here (in dutch, sorry): http://www.olino.org/articles/2010/03/09/het-knipperen-van-lampen

With the LED-setup I have in use now, I'm still waaaay below the power-requirements I would have for this tank when I'd use T5 HO tubes/bulbs.

I would love to see a nice review of these allegedly bad Chinese LEDs by Craig J. before I would make the assumptions you make. During my 44 years on this planet I've seen way too many people in the US 'assume' their product is top-quality because it was all 'made in the USA', while in reality most parts were actually made in China, or Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan etc. without anyone telling on that.


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## uk_caver (Oct 11, 2010)

Julius said:


> I think you've missed the part where I state I can strictly feed them with a 12,13 or 14.0 VDC source,



Was that in this thread, or elsewhere?



Julius said:


> I can add the 10 Watt LEDs because
> [...]
> b) they can be fed from my existing high efficiency stabilized power-source channels


The cheap Ebay 10W don't seem to include drivers, and so don't seem any more suitable for connection to a power source than any other LEDs would be.


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## Julius (Oct 11, 2010)

uk_caver said:


> The cheap Ebay 10W don't seem to include drivers, and so don't seem any more suitable for connection to a power source than any other LEDs would be.


They are also being sold with drivers if you want.
But I think you should first look into what your 'driver' actually is, because I don't need PWM in my circuits. I think you make more of a LED driver than it actually is. My 'drivers' are already there. And therefore the Voltage is of real importance, because surely I don't feel like losing even more power in resistors.

By the way, I found a user report of a very similar LED: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39957


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## uk_caver (Oct 11, 2010)

Presumably, you realise that an Ebay LED claiming to be '10-12V' isn't any more suitable for direct connection to a 12V/13V/14V supply than a '9.5V' Bridgelux?

Assuming you do, I'm trying to understand what you meant when you said


Julius said:


> I think you've missed the part where I state I can strictly feed them with a 12, 13 or 14.0 VDC source


It's hard to understand what you wrote there, since given your comments about drivers, to me that does read like you're suggesting direct connection of LEDs to fixed voltage supplies.

Maybe you went into more detail in the place you were suggesting people had failed to read. If you could point out where you said things that blasterman (and I) missed, that might help clear up some confusion.


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## doctaq (Oct 11, 2010)

people dont even direct drive 5mm leds why would you direct drive a 10w


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## Julius (Oct 11, 2010)

uk_caver said:


> Presumably, you realise that an Ebay LED claiming to be '10-12V' isn't any more suitable for direct connection to a 12V/13V/14V supply than a '9.5V' Bridgelux?


Yes, I generally use http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz and the power source channels work with TDA2050 and elcos (470µF) with a 1n4001 to not blow stuff up when channels are switching off.

I might show the entire thing with pics and explanation when finished, I don't really feel like giving electronics lessons now. Took me long enough to build the current timers and drivers as it is.

Problem with the strange forward Voltages of those bridgelux leds on the UK reseller website is that (in my experience) they also require a minimum to even light up, and I would turn into real problems if I would not have that Voltage available. (I found only one that had a 9.5 V spec by the way)
Not to mention the fact that all bridgelux leds state 120 degrees 'viewing angle', while the ebay Hong Kong leds state 160 degrees, and the review here states 170 degrees. I can really use that wide angle, especially with this amount of light..

Besides, the price is a big issue as well. I mean, the bridgelux one with similar specs would cost me €18,56 and that's excluding shipment. Plus Farnell wants me to create an account and payment is harder (on ebay I already have one, plus I paid only €6,39, with paypal..).


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## uk_caver (Oct 11, 2010)

Julius said:


> I don't really feel like giving electronics lessons now.


That's OK, since I'm not currently in need of any.



Julius said:


> Problem with the strange forward Voltages of those bridgelux leds on the UK reseller website is that (in my experience) they also require a minimum to even light up, and I would turn into real problems if I would not have that Voltage available.


I think there's still some room for misunderstanding here.
All LEDs require a minimum voltage to light up. but that's not an issue if LEDs/driver/power source are correctly matched.

If the Bridgelux is some kind of 3-dies-in-series arrangement (which seems pretty likely given the Vf), and so are the Ebay 10W ones, I don't see how the Bridgelux ones are some sort of problem.
A driver that couldn't cope with a '9.5V' Brideglux wouldn't be something I'd trust to drive a '10-12V' Ebay LED.



Julius said:


> I can really use that wide angle, especially with this amount of light.


It's not as if the Bridgelux units don't put _anything_ out at wider angles - from the datasheets it seems like at 80 degrees off-axis they're still at around 20% of forward intensity.
It's just that Bridgelux define the viewing angle as the angle where intensity is half the forward level.

How does that compare with the datasheet for the Ebay LEDs?
Do they have output at half the forward level even at 80 degrees off-axis?


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## LELANDWELDS (Oct 18, 2010)

Takashi Amano ! WOW! I ve never seen freshwater so well executed. I like the shrimp, too.

I have seen LEDs in the German saltwater stuff. Ho Hum. Texas gets too hot.


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## H20doctor (Oct 18, 2010)

i found this place .. drivers here 

http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=85

Light strip for aquarium 
http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=650


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## luxrc (Oct 19, 2010)

I'd recomment using mixed RGB instead of white LEDs. I have performed some tests in the lab - RGB setups provide much more colorful picture, ideal for aquarium decorative lighting I think.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/296950

I can send free samlpe for tests if you publish results here.


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## evilc66 (Oct 19, 2010)

RGB is a very poor choice for an aquarium on two fronts. 

First, color rendering sucks. It's a completely different affair under water than it is in air. There are many discussions going on right now about how to more effectively render all the colors that we see in our tanks (focus is specifically on reef tanks), but the base is still white light, as it's the broadest spectrum LED we have. We fill the gaps with appropriate LEDs. RGB is far too narrow in it's spectral output and misses a huge range of wavelengths that either cause reflectance or fluorescence in the tissue of the corals. 

The second issue is growth potential. While blue light is the primary range of light for photosynthesis in this application, with red as a suppliment, green is pretty much useless, and there are a ton of additional wavelengths required to make the most of photosynthetic growth potential. RGB LED setups just don't cover a wide enough range to be more effective than a white LED based system, and you would be wasting about 50% of your input energy on excessive (don't need much red) or non-essential light.

Currently, the best setup for aquariums is either cool white (high growth potential, poor-ish color rendering) or neutral white (less growth potential, but better color rendering), mixed with royal blue and blue LEDs (the mix of the two covers a wider range for photosynthesis, as well as offering some added color rendering). This offers the most growth potential and very good color rendering, with more efficent use of the energy used.

Now, this is focused on aquariums that have growth of some kind, be it coral or plant (same basic principles apply as above, but less blue light, and fewer LEDs need by comparison. Cool white LEDs by themselves actually work really well for planted setups). For a fish only setup, then RGB would be fine, and could create some interesting effects with shifting colors. Some fish really color up differently under certain light, but I wouldn't use it for growth.


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