# New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2 (Part 2)



## bullfrog (Mar 10, 2009)

[Continued from Part 1]


Just noticed this on Gene's site as of yesterday - looks like a line of complete Malkoff flashlights is in the works and coming soon! 

The first one listed on the site is the *Malkoff MD2* with a sweeeeet price of $39. No specs are listed but I have a feeling this is going to be another Malkoff home run.

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21&products_id=55

*Go Gene and Cathy!*

Looks like one tank of a light - anyone here anything about this? 

Maybe we can beg for a CPF edition... :naughty: 

EDIT: Per the Malkoff's permission (thank you Gene!), here are the pictures from the website for your viewing pleasure:


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## Willieboy (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

I expect to receive my MD2 this week. I'd like to add a lens to protect the insides. Mr. Malkoff suggests adding a one inch lens which in millimeters, is 25.4mm. I can't seem to find one in those dimensions. Any suggestions or sources would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


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## JJay03 (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

http://www.flashlightlens.com/str/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=ucl_lens

They have 1 that is 24.7mm that is very close.


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## StandardBattery (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

Finally! I found my M30W so I could test the MD2 and dual-level switch. I could have tested in with one of my M60s, but I just didn't want to do that because I bought this solely for M30W, at least to start. The two level switch really made me jump on the band wagon.

OK, first M30W didn't fit... But it was only because it was one with the sticker/tape around the rim identifying it as a Malkoff M30W. Looked really nice but the tolerances are tight, the drop-in got stuck a couple of times, so I peel it off and she dropped right in. I immediately secured it with the two level switch retaining ring. Stole a battery from the Jet-III-M while I wait for a new one hot off the charger. Hit the switch slowly tighten the bezel down. Turns on low... 

- wow that's LOW, on the M30W I'm not too hesitant to say probably too low. My LD01 on low dwarfs it. I'm guessing 5 lumens, maybe even less.

- The tail switch works perfect, no contact/brightness issues. It does make quite the click, probably the loudest clicky I've ever heard. Oh well just keep screaming 'get down on the ground' and they won't here the click. As I always mention, I like my lights to tail-stand, and that's a no go here, but there are other benefits to this host.

- The tolerances in the machining is impeccable. The level change takes only a slight twist and when on high (tightened), everything is closed up tight. The fatter than normal o-ring, and the large contact surface on the top of the body are very nice and I expect will contribute to a reliable design and torch (ok Flashlight).

- I love the so called 'Camo' Anodizing. I'm sure SwissBianco must have had a hand in it. It's hard to name the color, because it is splash but seems to be made up of a slightly maroon red, green and black on top of a Olive base. Absolutely gorgeous.

- The light with an M30 and 18650 is very well balanced, feels better than the 6P to me.

- I like that there is no lens, I've been running a M60LL (or M60L, can't remember right now), in a G2 that I've pulled the garbage window out of because it was not required, so I'm glad the MD2 is made like this. Maybe Gene could offer a good window for these who might need the extra protection.

- Very impressed with the 2 level switch, but with an M30W, the low is way to low for even simple navigation outdoors in an unlit area, strictly an indoor fully night adapted eyes scenario on low. The dark night just sucks up the lumens and you wonder if you even have it turned on.

That's it for now... I'm going to go play some more. 

Overall, Very nice work.


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## thermal guy (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

I was under the impression that on low with his new ring you would be getting 20LM or so no matter which of his drop ins you have in it.Was your 18650 fully charged?


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## StandardBattery (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*



thermal guy said:


> I was under the impression that on low with his new ring you would be getting 20LM or so no matter which of his drop ins you have in it.Was your 18650 fully charged?


I can't say it was fully changed, but I know it's pretty good. It's enough to run the M30W on high at full brightness for more than 10mins, so I'm thinking it's pretty good. It's measuring 3.88V right now, so it's not primo. I'm waiting for a new cell to charge.


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## thermal guy (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

I was hoping for a little more then that on low.Let us know how she is when you get a fresh 18650 in there. 3.90 Volts = 55% so it was not dead that's for sure.


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## bullfrog (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*



thermal guy said:


> I was under the impression that on low with his new ring you would be getting 20LM or so no matter which of his drop ins you have in it.Was your 18650 fully charged?



No way I get anywhere near 20 lumens with the md2 low switch with an m30w and fresh 18650 - mine looks like less than 5 lumens (and NOT surefire lumens)...

*EDIT: just checked and the output of my setup above is closer to my fenix e01 than any of my other lights. Its less bright than my are-aaa GS.*

I love it.


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## StandardBattery (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*



thermal guy said:


> I was hoping for a little more then that on low.Let us know how she is when you get a fresh 18650 in there. 3.90 Volts = 55% so it was not dead that's for sure.


 
Just checked it with a fresh cell (4.22V), and it's basically the same, just a little brighter. I could see it outdoors better if I pointed it at the ground right in front of me. My estimate is still around 5 lumens, but that's pretty rough, LD01 on low still dwarfs it, but it's more than a lumen or two. It's essentually an ultra-low, great for indoors at night, or very close range. Not really what I would have chosen, but maybe Gene will offer a couple different levels. It really depends on ones usage senario.


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## Bullzeyebill (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

Guys, the resistor ring is working off the available voltage in the battery(s). Low will always have a higher output with 6+ volts than 3.6+ volts using the ring. You would need a ring setup for the M30 using a different resistor value to get a higher output. Maybe Gene will, at some point, be able to supply different resistor value rings.

Bill


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## StandardBattery (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

Now that I've opened and closed this light a number of times, I'm going to say that I don't think I've had another light, of any size, that mates together so easily and so flawlessly. I'd like to know what secret is employed here and why aren't other manufacturers using it. :twothumbs


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## StandardBattery (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Guys, the resistor ring is working off the available voltage in the battery(s). Low will always have a higher output with 6+ volts than 3.6+ volts using the ring. You would need a ring setup for the M30 using a different resistor value to get a higher output. Maybe Gene will, at some point, be able to supply different resistor value rings.
> 
> Bill


 
Yes makes sense. I'm sure Gene will offer other resistor values one day.


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## Sgt. LED (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Guys, the resistor ring is working off the available voltage in the battery(s). Low will always have a higher output with 6+ volts than 3.6+ volts using the ring. You would need a ring setup for the M30 using a different resistor value to get a higher output.


There you go.  Maybe you could solder in your own resistor and get just what you want.

On my M30WF I swear the low seems more like 8 to me. I guess the F is tricking me. 
It sure does make a sweet reading light and fridge raider. :twothumbs

I REALLY like the low-low myself.


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## russtang (May 25, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*



StandardBattery said:


> Now that I've opened and closed this light a number of times, I'm going to say that I don't think I've had another light, of any size, that mates together so easily and so flawlessly. I'd like to know what secret is employed here and why aren't other manufacturers using it. :twothumbs


 
My thoughts also. I've been playing around taking pics and stuff with some we just got in and I was definitely pleased at the quality of the machining and parts overall.

Very easy to put together and feels solid.

The 2-level rings are quality made also. They make these lights that much better with two levels.

Gene has done a great job with these and I am looking forward to more new things in the works also.


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## Sgt. LED (May 26, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

Seems like it'd be cake to add a third level to the ring.

Put in another resistor and a longer pin on unit 2. :shrug:


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## Bimmerboy (May 26, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*



StandardBattery said:


> The tail switch works perfect, no contact/brightness issues.


Good news. Thanks for reporting that.



StandardBattery said:


> probably the loudest clicky I've ever heard. Oh well just keep screaming 'get down on the ground' and they won't here the click.


LOL!


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## Sector7 (May 26, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

I am getting a low gussestimate of 5 lumens with the M30 and around 15 lumens low with M60LL on the MD-2 2 stage ring with the same AW 18650 battery.


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## StandardBattery (May 26, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*

Testing: Day 2

OK after using the light a little more, I did notice some play in the threads. Using the light in the overhand grip, it became clear that it was easy to trigger high mode if the head was only loosened a few degs as is required for it to drop out of high and into low. Very slight Lateral pressure or downward force on the bezel will activate high if the bezel is only slightly loosened. Some people will actually like this because the force require is very light. My sample requires a 90deg twist from high to low to ensure that any force applied to the bezel will not activate high. This is reasonable.

I did notice though that maybe the really smooth and trouble free threading of the head and bezel comes at the price of increased lateral movement of the head when the bezel is not tightened down for high. My MD2 has significantly more thread play than my Silver/Satin 6P. I can't say if it has increased with all the twisting since new, but now that I've noticed it, I find it distracting. I'll remember to test it against a new one at some point.

I'm still very impressed with the feel of the light, it's quite smooth yet has grip. I wonder of the other finishes feel different than the camo. If one was to pocket a P6 sized light, this would be one of the best choices. Since most of us have more than 1 light that might be a fair tradeoff for no anti-roll mechanism. 

Given the power of the MD drop-ins this is certainly one light you would not want to set bezel down while it is turned on.

I've developed a crack/chip on the very edge of my optic. It has no visual impact on the beam. I'm not sure what caused that, maybe torquing down the retaining ring? Not sure, maybe it was always there and I never noticed it since I was in a big hurry when I found the drop-in to drop it into the light. I don't think torquing was the issue. Today when I checked the retaining ring it was loose. I suspect that means that the friction between the battery tube and the retaining ring was enough to loosen the retaining ring. I'm thinking this could be an on-going issue unless I use loc-tight or something. I could try a conductive greese on the body end. I've tightened the ring again and marked it's location so I can quickly see if it moves again.

Time to go outside again.


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## Sgt. LED (May 27, 2009)

*Re: New Malkoff Flashlight: MD2*



StandardBattery said:


> Testing: Day 2
> 
> OK after using the light a little more, I did notice some play in the threads. Using the light in the overhand grip, it became clear that it was easy to trigger high mode if the head was only loosened a few degs as is required for it to drop out of high and into low. Very slight Lateral pressure or downward force on the bezel will activate high if the bezel is only slightly loosened.


Mine is the same. Not noticed it with use but after trying to duplicate your results I can get it to easily. Now my MD2 has a new feature, a HI/LOW manual strobe. 


StandardBattery said:


> If one was to pocket a P6 sized light, this would be one of the best choices. Since most of us have more than 1 light that might be a fair trade off for no anti-roll mechanism.


I agree 100% If you are doing 2 cell pocket carry this is your baby.


StandardBattery said:


> I've developed a crack/chip on the very edge of my optic. It has no visual impact on the beam. I'm not sure what caused that, maybe torquing down the retaining ring?


No way, that thick rubber gasket would stop that from happening.


StandardBattery said:


> Today when I checked the retaining ring it was loose. I suspect that means that the friction between the battery tube and the retaining ring was enough to loosen the retaining ring.


Happened with mine as well until I got pretty serious about tightening that ring. Not moved since thankfully. Time will tell.

Thanks for your report!


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## CR123_CR123_CR123 (May 27, 2009)

hi:

I just got High/Low Bezel Switch for MD2 and installed it. works fine, i will look for a dark room to test it out. Will be interesting to see what a M60WF looks like on low.


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## dilbert (May 27, 2009)

I have two MD2s now, one in black and one in type III natural HA, and two of the high-low bezel switches.

The finish on the black one (from the first run) is amazing and flawless, but the rubber washer is about twice as thick as the one that came on my HA III one last week. Because of the thicker washer, or perhaps a slight design change, when I lock out the black one the end of the o-ring is exposed. 

The finish on the HA III one is a little splotchy and chipped off in a couple of places around the front of the bezel, but since it has the thin washer, the o-ring is completely covered when it is locked out. 

The two stage switch is perfect. I have a M60W in both MD2s and low level is great for general use while full power is only a slight twist away. 

Right now the MD2 HA III is my go-to light and will come along whenever I head out into the dark. It fits perfect in my nite-ize stretch holster. It will also be my primary light for camping or fishing trips. The black MD3 lives in my nightstand ready for use. Both my Surefire 6P and C2 both got bumped into the storage container for now.


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## BlakesHitch (May 27, 2009)

I just finished a runtime test on the M60WF in a MD2 with the 2-stage bezel switch set on LOW. The battery is an AW protected 18650 (2200 mah). I checked the battery all along using a ZTS tester which indicates the charge at intervals of 10%, 20%, 40%, 60%, 80%, 100%. The light output seemed to be constant throughout the test, which I ended when the battery first showed 10% charge. The final voltage without a load was 3.66V.

Results: 103 hours runtime!

charge @ 33hr = 80%
charge @ 52hr = 60%
charge @ 80hr = 40%
charge @ 96hr = 20%
charge @ 103hr = 10%

I could not be happier with the results. A smooth, warm beam and exceptional runtime of this light makes it a real favorite.


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## JJay03 (May 27, 2009)

m60 with 1 4.2v cell?


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## BlakesHitch (May 27, 2009)

That's right. One cell, a 4.2v 18650 ran the M60WF for 103 hours with Gene's new 2-stage (resistor) switch set on LOW.


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## bullfrog (May 27, 2009)

Only thing that is missing for me is a hole for a lanyard (I dont care about a clip).

I'm thinking of drilling a lanyard hole (or two) in the thinner material that surrounds the clicky portion - like how surefire has the holes on the Z68 tail. Looks like it should be easy enough to do...


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## CR123_CR123_CR123 (May 27, 2009)

Hi:

I really like the low mode using the High/Low Bezel Switch for MD2 with a M60WF. It is noticeably lower than the lowest setting on a Fenix SSLD01.

Definitely going to use MD2 more now for really close quarter stuff (searching for stuff under desks and dark closets). The extended runtime on low mode as determined by the previous CPF'ers makes the MD2 even sweeter.

Malkoff products and service to infinity and beyond! :thumbsup:


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## OrlandoLights (May 28, 2009)

dilbert said:


> The two stage switch is perfect. I have a M60W in both MD2s and low level is great for general use while full power is only a slight twist away.
> 
> Right now the MD2 HA III is my go-to light and will come along whenever I head out into the dark. It fits perfect in my nite-ize stretch holster. It will also be my primary light for camping or fishing trips.



+1

I got the Nite-ize stretch last week, and it works great with the MD2, especially being able to swivel the holster to aim the light forward where you are walking, so you can still use both hands. I've needed to use it that way twice this week already. 

Still looking for an easily removed white cap that will fit as a diffuser. Please let me know if you find something.

I have the M60 and AW's 18650, and am very happy with the light output the low gives. Seems just about perfect for dark-adapted eyes for navigating the house at night, and for not waking people up when camping. And the 103 hour run time is just nuts.

I second the "Malkoff products and service to infinity and beyond!" Again, what a great light this is. Thanks, Gene.:thumbsup:


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## nanotech17 (May 28, 2009)

how's the output on this light?is it identical with Solarforce L2 & 6P?


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## Sgt. LED (May 28, 2009)

Has anyone noticed the 45 second afterglow you get from turning it off on low?

With my M30WF on low I can switch it off and quickly look into the optic and watch the light fade out as the resistor drains of all residual energy.
It's pretty cool!


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## StandardBattery (May 28, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> Has anyone noticed the 45 second afterglow you get from turning it off on low?
> 
> With my M30WF on low I can switch it off and quickly look into the optic and watch the light fade out as the resistor drains of all residual energy.
> It's pretty cool!


 
Resistors have a total of 0 residual energy, so this is interesting. I'll have to check mine tonight. A capacitor can have residual energy, but 45sec glow seems like way too long for that given the size of the drop-in. Sounds like a switch issue, or some other drain issue. My first though is that this would be a sign of some issue.


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## MrGman (May 28, 2009)

Resistors have 0 residual energy but they slow down the discharge of any capacitor by the additional R making the longer RC time constant that wasn't there before. There has to be some capacitance in the driver module circuitry so seeing this slower discharge and bleed off in the form of the dimming down more slowly indicates an RC time constant which seems perfectly normal to me. 

Thats what increasing R from zero to some real value does, increase the RC time constant.


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## StandardBattery (May 28, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Resistors have 0 residual energy but they slow down the discharge of any capacitor by the additional R making the longer RC time constant that wasn't there before. There has to be some capacitance in the driver module circuitry so seeing this slower discharge and bleed off in the form of the dimming down more slowly indicates an RC time constant which seems perfectly normal to me.
> 
> Thats what increasing R from zero to some real value does, increase the RC time constant.


 
However the resistor is in series with the supply and if the tail switch is open there is no circuit, and there is no path for any charge to bleed off through the resistor unless there is an undesirable issue with the switch or circuit. It would also take a lot more capacitance by a substancial amount to be able to store enough energy to light the lamp for 45 seconds, even if the discharge was limited. 

It could be the light has an issue with or without the two level switch, that would make more sense.

As a side note I tested my light, and there is no after glow.


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## MrGman (May 28, 2009)

StandardBattery said:


> However the resistor is in series with the supply and if the tail switch is open there is no circuit, and there is no path for any charge to bleed off through the resistor unless there is an undesirable issue with the switch or circuit. It would also take a lot more capacitance by a substancial amount to be able to store enough energy to light the lamp for 45 seconds, even if the discharge was limited.
> 
> It could be the light has an issue with or without the two level switch, that would make more sense.
> 
> As a side note I tested my light, and there is no after glow.


 

Not necessarily true at all. I have not paid any attention to this new low mode resistor ring, it looks like it can only be between the return side of the module and the case which is common ground. So I am not sure exactly where it is in the circuit but I know this. If the resistor is in series with the return side of the supply which is case ground of the flashlight host, then it could still be changing the way the driver circuit has to bleed off and discharge that it had before. In other words we are seeing the light slowing dim that wasn't there before indicating a slower discharge path. The driver circuit has to go to a ground for control, not just through the LED itself. The resistor could be slowing down that discharge path regardless of opening the switch.

The easy way to prove this is to take this device out and if the slow dimming effect of light is gone, and then returning the device makes it have this slow dimming phenomenon again, then there is clearly a change in the discharge path to ground that the switch cannot interrupt. And again if this is true it would not be a defect or an "issue" of not functioning correctly, it would be normal for where it is in the circuit. It just might not be desirable.


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## Bullzeyebill (May 28, 2009)

It would be good if Gene would chime in here and tell us exactly how the resistor ring works. Obvious how the McGizmo resistor setup works, so am wondering if Gene's functions differently, not in design, of course, but end result wise.

Bill


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## Mjolnir (May 28, 2009)

You could always send him an email; I'm sure he would answer all of your questions. He may not be aware of this thread.


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## StandardBattery (May 28, 2009)

Oh I'm sure Gene is aware of this thread, he is probably just very busy and will chime in soon.

The resistor/pin pretty much works the only way it can, there are not really any options here. The tail switch controls the flow from the negative end of the battery to the body, the body serves as a conductor that notmally connects with the retaining ring which connects to the negative terminal/casing of the drop-in. However with the two way switch, before the top of the body makes contact with the retaining ring it will make contact with the pin which connects to the retaining ring through the resistor limiting the current. 

In any matter once the tail switch is open the circuit is opened and there is no flow of current from the battery (or should be).

Is there enough energy left anywhere in the dropin to power the led even with a glow for 45sec., highly unlikely if there was I can't see the retaining ring with or without the resistor making any difference. 

In the end I'm just saying an after glow is most-likely (with avery high probability) a sign of some other real issue.

Now Gene can chime in.


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## Mjolnir (May 28, 2009)

I'm sure he is aware of the original thread, but he might not have visited it since it split off to form this one, and he might be unaware of your specific questions.


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## OrlandoLights (May 28, 2009)

Not getting the afterglow, but I am seeing spots and stars from looking at the LED when turning the light off on low. It flashed on high for a second.


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## Gene43 (May 28, 2009)

The M30 and M30 variants have a 4 to 5 second afterglow. The M60 and variants don't. It's just a byproduct of the driver design.


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## Burgess (May 28, 2009)

Gosh, Gene . . . .


You know we'll* always* be glad to make room for ya' !




_


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## Gene43 (May 28, 2009)

I started into a long winded deal and then thought better of it.


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## Sgt. LED (May 28, 2009)

Thanks for the word Gene! I didn't know what it was but I did like it, and I should of put a dash between the 4 & 5! 

Anyways, I'm really loving the M30WF low! :thumbsup:


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## StandardBattery (May 29, 2009)

OK 4-5sec. Thanks for chiming in Gene. And it is not related to the two level ring correct?


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (May 29, 2009)

StandardBattery said:


> It could be the light has an issue with or without the two level switch, that would make more sense.





Gene43 said:


> It's just a byproduct of the driver design.



You were right StandardBattery when you said it was something other then the ring!!!It's the driver,not the ring!


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## Gene43 (May 29, 2009)

Correct. It is not related to the two level ring.


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## StandardBattery (May 29, 2009)

ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> You were right StandardBattery when you said it was something other then the ring!!!It's the driver,not the ring!


 
Ya, but I was not right about it being a sign of an issue exactly because I got hung up on the 45secs that turned out to be a typo, and the fact that i did not notice it on my sample. The after-glow, is less than a 2sec fading wimper on mine. It's good that it was identified though and it was more interesting than waiting for the flashlight delivery person.


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## StandardBattery (May 29, 2009)

On my 2 level retaining ring, I'm measuring ~75.5 Ohms. With a 4Voc cell ~46.3 mA on low (M30W).


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## J-FRAME (May 30, 2009)

Just arrived my Malkoff MD2 with high low ring. I LOVE this light. With the M60 in it and recharables it is my new EDC. The hi/lo is very nice as thats how I use a light on a daily basis.The low is perfect for small things not blinding and run time and the high spot and spill are perfect for a defense light.Man I could have used this light for the last 40 years.Awesome That being said I wish it had a anti roll bezel. Maybe flat black HA with a standup tailcap twisty for the non clickie lovers. Perfection. Thanks Gene I,m a happy dude. Wish it would hurry up and get dark.


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## StandardBattery (May 30, 2009)

StandardBattery said:


> On my 2 level retaining ring, I'm measuring ~75.5 Ohms. With a 4Voc cell ~46.3 mA on low (M30W).


 
I've modified the resistance for my switch to ~24ohms. It's drawing ~ 130mA, and delivering about 10lumens, maybe slightly less. It looks pretty much the same as my E2DL on low. 

I've used a parallel resistor and my quick calcs show I can't go any lower without exceeding their wattage ratings, and I may actually already be too close because I don't know the wattage of the stock one.


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 1, 2009)

Does the new resistor ring switch cause any reduction in output in the high mode with a M60 or M30?


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 1, 2009)

:candle:



kyhunter1 said:


> Does the new resistor ring switch cause any reduction in output in the high mode with a M60 or M30?


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## Gene43 (Jun 1, 2009)

No. The resistor is bypassed on high.


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## Mjolnir (Jun 1, 2009)

A system with somewhat modular resistors would be really neat, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be to make the resistors easily removable. Having a customizeable low mode sounds very appealing.


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 1, 2009)

Thanks Gene, that is just what I wanted to hear. 



Gene43 said:


> No. The resistor is bypassed on high.


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## MrGman (Jun 2, 2009)

Just got mine in camo MD2 with the 75 ohm resistor two mode ring.    :twothumbs
*Works great, beautiful camo green finish, high/low mode is flawless.*

*Brand/Model_____**___**Host/Model/Bezel____**_______Batteries**______**__ Mode**__**Lumens**_**On Time__**16" Sphere*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 AW RCR123s______High____242.3__instant peak__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 AW RCR123s______High____227.2____1 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 AW RCR123s______High____208.0___30 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 AW RCR123s______High____204.9___60 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 AW RCR123s______High____201.8__120 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 AW RCR123s______High____200.9__240 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 AW RCR123,_______Low_____18.2__250 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 CR123 Pri_________High____229.1__instant peak__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 CR123 Pri_________High____217.8____1 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 CR123 Pri_________High____204.4___30 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 CR123 Pri_________High____202.7___60 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 CR123 Pri_________High____201.8__120 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 CR123 Pri_________High____201.6__240 sec__,*
*Malkoff M60 Gman___Camo MD2 w/2 mode Ring____2 CR123 Pri__________Low_____11.8__250 sec__,*


*Brand/Model_Host/Model/Bezel_________Batteries____ Mode__Lumens_On Time__*

*Malkoff M60_____**Solarforce Host No glass__**2 CR123 Pri___**High___**238.6**__instant peak*
*Malkoff M60_____**Solarforce Host No glass__**2 CR123 Pri___**High___**227.1**___1 sec*
*Malkoff M60_____**Solarforce Host No glass__**2 CR123 Pri___**High___**214.3**__30 sec*
*Malkoff M60_____**Solarforce Host No glass__**2 CR123 Pri___**High___**212.9**__60 sec*
*Malkoff M60_____**Solarforce Host No glass__**2 CR123 Pri___**High___**211.7**_120 sec*
*Malkoff M60_____**Solarforce Host No glass__**2 CR123 Pri___**High___**210.9**_240 sec*


M60___Solarforce L2___Bezel with No Glass__with DC power supply______________
Volts____Amps____watts____Lumens____On time
11.61____0.48____5.52____250.7____instant peak
11.61____0.48____5.52____235.7______3 sec
11.61____0.48____5.52____215.7_____30 sec
11.61____0.48____5.52____214.1_____60 sec
11.61____0.48____5.52____212.7____120 sec
11.61____0.48____5.52____211.5____180 sec
_7.33____0.64____4.70____229.0____instant peak
_7.33____0.64____4.70____238.2______3 sec
_7.33____0.64____4.70____220.3_____30 sec
_7.33____0.64____4.70____219.4_____60 sec
_7.33____0.64____4.70____216.6____120 sec
_7.33____0.64____4.70____215.8____180 sec

So you can see that with higher voltage it starts at a higher peak but the driver warms up some what and the output at 3 minutes drops below running it at the more moderate 7.33V range that would come from 2 RCR 123 style batteries under load. The light is generally about 5% brighter in the Solarforce host with a plain bezel (no crenellations sticking out and no glass than the MD2 bezel but I don't consider 5% significant in total output. I wouldn't run a Solarforce host with no glass in it. With AR glass the MD2 is in the lead, and with the plain glass that the Solarforce type hosts come with or even the original glass of a SureFire 6P, the MD2 comes out ahead. Hope this helps. G


----------



## da.gee (Jun 2, 2009)

Just got my camo MD2 and ring. If that ring ain't slick I don't know what is. Of course I had to get one more M60 while I was at it. Loving it.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 2, 2009)

MrGman, would you try your MD2 M60 module in a two cell SF type body without a window, for comparison? Without resistor ring of course.

Bill


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## MrGman (Jun 2, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> MrGman, would you try your MD2 M60 module in a two cell SF type body without a window, for comparison? Without resistor ring of course.
> 
> Bill


 

You want the bezel left on but no glass in the bezel? I have done tests with other M60 modules with no bezel at all and I am holding the module in place in the housing to insure tight contact. Does it have to be an actual Surefire bezel with no glass? I have not had any luck opening up the retaining ring to take the glass out and I don't want to ruin it just for a test. I normally use the solarforce bezel of which its very easy to open up and take out or change the glass on top of a 6P or a C2 body. I could easily do that maybe tomorrow.

If you have a 6P bezel that you took the glass out you can send it. What are you getting at, how much the window opening of the MD2 might cut off the light of the module since it comes slightly inside the M60 housing perimeter? Or??? 

Anyway did I mention how I loved the custom individual hand done green camoflauge looks on the host and that it clicks so good. And that its very drool resistant from all the guys at work who ain't got one and sad to say probably never will. Also I am quite impressed with how well the 2 stage ring works and at 18 lumens using the higher voltages of the AW RCRs that its a very good useful "find your way around the house" level.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 2, 2009)

No, your SolarForce bezel without glass would be fine. Am looking at any differences there might be noted comparing the Kroll switch with your switch used with the SolarForce body using two CR123's or two RCR123's, using the same testing procedure you used with the MD2. In the end maybe the only difference will be the deeper set of the M60 in the MD2. I am thinking that maybe Gene has done a good service by offering a nice high current Kroll switch, and one I will buy (actually several). Previous Krolls have had high resistance, but Gene has asked for better from the Kroll switch maker, Judco.

Bill


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## gsxrac (Jun 2, 2009)

Well I just ordered a switching ring and M60LL. Anybody done a runtime test on low with an M60LL yet? Preferably 2 RCR's?


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## MrGman (Jun 2, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> No, your SolarForce bezel without glass would be fine. Am looking at any differences there might be noted comparing the Kroll switch with your switch used with the SolarForce body using two CR123's or two RCR123's, using the same testing procedure you used with the MD2. In the end maybe the only difference will be the deeper set of the M60 in the MD2. I am thinking that maybe Gene has done a good service by offering a nice high current Kroll switch, and one I will buy (actually several). Previous Krolls have had high resistance, but Gene has asked for better from the Kroll switch maker, Judco.
> 
> Bill


 

Actually spoke to Gene yesterday and one of the things he mentioned was that these newer Kroll switches were improved and good up to 4 amps and I think he said at least 100 thousand actuations. 

But I will try and do that test Wednesday Night. If you come over with the pizza that will help the testing go faster. No excuses that you live in another state.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 2, 2009)

MrGman, well you went to the San Jose BBQ, so you must live in CA like me. Woodland, CA just outside of Sacramento. Love to bring some Pizza, but holed up here for awhile. Thanks, for response.

Bill


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## Rothrandir (Jun 2, 2009)

Did somebody say pizza?


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 2, 2009)

Rothrandir said:


> Did somebody say pizza?



Hey there. Long time no see. Saw you last at 08 PK party. I think that MrGman is having pizza and inviting everyone over. He needs more pizza for the testing. :devil:

Oops, am I getting off topic here? Isn't this thread about pizza and lumen testing? 

Bill


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## Bimmerboy (Jun 2, 2009)

Personally, I'd like to see the output charts on round pie vs. Sicilian. I prefer the round, but Sicilian seems to give better runtime.


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## Sgt. LED (Jun 2, 2009)

Thin, crispy crust with light sauce. Spinach, olives, ham, hot pepper seeds, and mushrooms. With a second cheese layer of provolone. 
I forgot to make the witty flashlight reference, mind's firmly on pizza now.


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## [email protected] (Jun 2, 2009)

If Gene made pizzas insteade of m60s... Drool


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## Gene43 (Jun 2, 2009)

How about one with 700-800 OTF pepperonis.


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## SilentK (Jun 2, 2009)

Gene43 said:


> How about one with 700-800 OTF pepperonis.



Is this a hint to a new product? Do tell:naughty:


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## Sgt. LED (Jun 2, 2009)

I'd eat it!!!! :twothumbs


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## Toohotruk (Jun 2, 2009)

DAMN! you guys are making me hungry!!! 


I'm all set for pizza and its almost time to go to bed!!!


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 2, 2009)

Gene43 said:


> How about one with 700-800 OTF pepperonis.



Might end up with 700-800 OTR pepperonis. 

Bill


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## Toohotruk (Jun 2, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Might end up with 700-800 OTR pepperonis.
> 
> Bill




Talk about runtime!!! 


:toilet:


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## Sgt. LED (Jun 2, 2009)

AW!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's totally worth it. :thumbsup:


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## MrGman (Jun 3, 2009)

what have I done??? 

So back on topic. I plan on running my newest M60 off the DC power supply and see if I can crank out some more lumens. Nobody commented on the fact that turn on with 2 RCR batteries was 242 lumens versus turn on with 2 primaries was only 229. First I will try 2X18650 then 3 primaries and then go to the DC supply and ease it up past 9V and see what happens. 

I really like the low mode feature on this thing. I was showing it off to my fiancee and she really liked it and asked if she could have it.

I said honey, I would give you my world, I would move mountains, .....



NO.


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## etc (Jun 3, 2009)

.................


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## MrGman (Jun 3, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> MrGman, well you went to the San Jose BBQ, so you must live in CA like me. Woodland, CA just outside of Sacramento. Love to bring some Pizza, but holed up here for awhile. Thanks, for response.
> 
> Bill


 

I flew in just for the custom pan pizzas on my personal light engine powered hovercraft from an undisclosed location. The kielbasa (sp?) well that was just icing on top of the proverbial cake.


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## MrGman (Jun 3, 2009)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157619123712719/show/

More will be added at a later date.


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## MDNY (Jun 3, 2009)

Going back in the thread a ways, has anyone by now added a UCL lens to the MD2 and if so, how did you assemble it - MD2 bezel -> rubber gasket -> lens -> drop-in, or did you add another gasket between the drop-in and lens? And does the assembly leave any part of the o-ring exposed? Any spill cutoff resulting from the additional ~2mm of recess of the drop-in caused by the thickness of the lens? 

Thanks in advance.


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## Norm (Jun 3, 2009)

I've just been flicking through this thread and can't believe that Gene chose to use a Kroll switch, I've had trouble with them in the past as have other members. They have a reputation for high resistance and unreliability.
Norm
Norm


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## MrGman (Jun 3, 2009)

Norm said:


> I've just been flicking through this thread and can't believe that Gene chose to use a Kroll switch, I've had trouble with them in the past as have other members. They have a reputation for high resistance and unreliability.
> Norm
> Norm


 

Then you didn't read the part about him having Kroll fix that problem and upgrade the switch and that the new one is good up to 4 amps and 100 K actuations and is far improved over the old one. Only a few of the original MD2 had old style Kroll switches is my understanding. All the new units have a much better switch.


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## Arthur D (Jun 3, 2009)

Could some explain the drop-in options w/ this body more?

I own a 18650 platform (deree DBS) and would like to stay w/ those batteries. 

I like throw, but am interested in all options. Will any M60 drop use/driven by 18650s?

Is the MCE pill worth the extra $ in performance?

I may be green, but I do know a good thing when I see it.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 3, 2009)

MrGman said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157619123712719/show/
> 
> More will be added at a later date.



Link does not work for me.

Bill


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## Burgess (Jun 3, 2009)

Great Thread ! ! !



BTW . . . .


Posts # 72 and 73 made me


Laugh Out Loud ! ! !


:lolsign:


^^^^^ -- Like that !



Thanks, guys :wave:


lovecpf

_


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## MrGman (Jun 3, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Link does not work for me.
> 
> Bill


 
Then you will be one deprived guy. I clicked the link from inside your message and it went to it twice. It is slow to open and there is only the 1 image so far. Its a dang fine photo and shouldn't be any different to open then anything else I have linked to in Flickr. My son was able to open it on his totally separate computer going into CPF and finding this thread just fine. 

Will need to see if any one else can open it.


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## Burgess (Jun 3, 2009)

Link works* fine* for me.


:twothumbs

_


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## Toohotruk (Jun 3, 2009)

Me too.

Beautiful light!


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## Norm (Jun 3, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Then you didn't read the part about him having Kroll fix that problem and upgrade the switch and that the new one is good up to 4 amps and 100 K actuations and is far improved over the old one. Only a few of the original MD2 had old style Kroll switches is my understanding. All the new units have a much better switch.


I did read that, but I am surprised the Kroll was chosen in the first place by someone as experienced as Gene, I understand he is on top of the problem.
Norm


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## MrGman (Jun 3, 2009)

Norm said:


> I did read that, but I am surprised the Kroll was chosen in the first place by someone as experienced as Gene, I understand he is on top of the problem.
> Norm


 

By getting Kroll to upgrade the switch which others can buy independently we all benefit thanks to Gene's efforts, so where's the problem?


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## ElectronGuru (Jun 3, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Link does not work for me.



The link appears to be a flash production/animation. You may not have a flash player installed. Here is a static version of the image:





​


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## recDNA (Jun 5, 2009)

MrGman said:


> By getting Kroll to upgrade the switch which others can buy independently we all benefit thanks to Gene's efforts, so where's the problem?


 
So if I buy the "bare bones" black MD2 as is for $39.95 I can expect over 200 lumens? For how long?


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## rmteo (Jun 5, 2009)

0 minutes exactly - JK. 

The $39.95 MD2 is just a host - or body in layman's terms. You will need to add one Gene's $55 drop-ins for it to be a flashlight.


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## recDNA (Jun 5, 2009)

rmteo said:


> 0 minutes exactly - JK.
> 
> The $39.95 MD2 is just a host - or body in layman's terms. You will need to add one Gene's $55 drop-ins for it to be a flashlight.


 
Then it's pretty expensive when you add in the gadget to allow low and high power.


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## Sector7 (Jun 5, 2009)

Actually thats the low end MD-2, the HA MD-2 is the slighty more expensive version with 0 min runtime.


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 5, 2009)

It's made in the USA quality! It's worth it! Get a M60 to go with the MD2, and you have a light that is brighter than anything led that Surefire has currently available to the public, and costs less than most of Surefire's led models. 



recDNA said:


> Then it's pretty expensive when you add in the gadget to allow low and high power.


----------



## gsxrac (Jun 5, 2009)

Hey, nobody said this was a cheap hobby  And yes your JUST getting the host not a full light. And you could always purchase the selector ring at a later date...


----------



## Toohotruk (Jun 5, 2009)

You got that right!


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## paintballdad (Jun 5, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Then it's pretty expensive when you add in the gadget to allow low and high power.



There are some lights i hesitate paying $50 for, and there are those that i don't hesitate paying $100+ for. Surefires and Ra Lights come to mind and now the Malkoff MD2 is on that list. The 2 stage ring is plain genius in its simplicity and has made the M60 and M30 even more useful.

And i'll gladly pay another $100+ when Gene comes out with his black HA MD2. Just can't beat Malkoff's quality and customer service :twothumbs.


----------



## Mjolnir (Jun 5, 2009)

With the type III anodized host, the 2 mode ring, and a malkoff dropin, the total is around $130 with shipping. While this is a fair amount for a light, it really is a better value than a surefire that you could have bought for the same amount of money. You get 2 modes, a very large choice of dropins to choose from, and HAIII.


----------



## MrGman (Jun 5, 2009)

Yes the MD2 with the Malkoff module of your choice is well worth the money. If we compare the MD2 with the 2 stage ring and the original M60, you get more lumens than the Surefire E2DL (not as bright as a hot spot, more total light in the complete beam pattern, fact) you get 2 modes like the E2DL, but better and at less cost. Its about $120.00 for the complete MD2 versus $150 for the E2DL. The MD2 has the better switching mode. you don't have to cycle the on/off switch to get the mode you want, turn the separate ring. Which means as a tactical light, if you want to flash it on and off at full power every time you touch the button that's what you get. With the E2DL if you cycle it too fast, then every other time you get low mode. Truth is at any turn on you have a 50/50 chance of getting the mode you wanted. Not so with the MD2, That selector ring is not going to turn itself. If you set it to low it stays at low and vice versa.

The other beautiful thing is the Malkoff will take the higher voltage rechargeables by design with no risk of over driving the circuity and possibly ruining your light. So if you like running AW RCR123's instead of primary because you top them off everyday, then you can do that worry free, its designed to take up to 9V and I have tested them over 10V with no problem. They are in full regulation.

With the higher voltage from the AW RCR123's you get full power at turn on bumping very close to 240 lumens out the front (see page 2) and about 18 lumens in low mode. This is an advantage over the E2DL and I am not saying there is anything wrong with th E2DL. The MD2 doesn't have crenellations which most of us don't want, so it won't tear up your pocket. It is a very handy light.
And mine of course just happens to be danged beautious as well. So my E2DL will be up for sale even though its a measured 210 lumen output screamer.

And of course once you have the host, you can by other modules to play with and drop them in and have fun. Like the M60 Flood or warm or warm flood or ....... 

G.


----------



## Arthur D (Jun 6, 2009)

What happens to output on a m60 drop in when driven by one 18650?

Can a m60 MC-E be driven by one 18650?


----------



## paintballdad (Jun 6, 2009)

Arthur D said:


> What happens to output on a m60 drop in when driven by one 18650?
> 
> Can a m60 MC-E be driven by one 18650?



I believe the M60 runs on 3.8-9 volts, so with one 18650 it will running direct drive at a reduced output. And the MC-E won't even turn on with just 1 18650 as it needs at least 5 volts.


----------



## thermal guy (Jun 6, 2009)

My M60 will run for 65 minutes tell it drops out of regulation.Then will run for another 2 1/2 hours at a reduced level.An by reduced level i mean 100LM or so still plenty bright.Oh this is with a AW 18650.


----------



## Illumination (Jun 6, 2009)

Does anyone know how the MD2 with the two level ring will perform with an M60 MC-E?

How low is the light on low? Does the switch have any current problems on high?

I'm disappointed with most of the other MCE adn P7 lights on the market and am thinking of just assembling one this way...

Thanks!


----------



## MrGman (Jun 6, 2009)

Illumination said:


> Does anyone know how the MD2 with the two level ring will perform with an M60 MC-E?
> 
> How low is the light on low? Does the switch have any current problems on high?
> 
> ...


 
I will be testing that out later. Maybe post results Sunday night. G


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 6, 2009)

MrGman said:


> I will be testing that out later. Maybe post results Sunday night. G


----------



## Arthur D (Jun 6, 2009)

MrGman said:


> I will be testing that out later. Maybe post results Sunday night. G


*

*thanks. I am interested also. 

also...

Is there a CLIP for a MD2?


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 7, 2009)

I have not heard anything from Gene about a clip. One of the other members on here mentioned that he may drill and tap a couple of holes near the tail end and install a RA style clip. Ill keep mine the way it is for now. 



Arthur D said:


> thanks. I am interested also.
> 
> also...
> 
> Is there a CLIP for a MD2?


----------



## MrGman (Jun 7, 2009)

Illumination said:


> Does anyone know how the MD2 with the two level ring will perform with an M60 MC-E?
> 
> How low is the light on low? Does the switch have any current problems on high?
> 
> ...


 
I was talking to Gene yesterday and asked him about this and he said "Yes" the 2 mode ring will work with the MC-E lights, he designed it that way. I did some calculations of what the 1 watt 75 ohm resistor could handle.

In order to get 1 watt across 75 ohms you need 115.47mA of current which creates a 8.66V drop across the resistor itself. You will never get there running the MC-E with 9 volts worth of batteries or less. With 2 RCR123 in the MD2 the most you could get is 8.4V under no load conditions to the entire system. for the MC-E you would have to have at the very least 3V to turn it on at low and have some output so that would be 5.4V max across the resistor. So you would never get the resistor to where it has the voltage drop and current to reach 1 watt. From what I see at best it would never get past 0.42 watts of power dissipation across itself being in low mode with an MC-E module being driven.

I will test it tonight and see what the lumens output in low mode is.


----------



## MrGman (Jun 7, 2009)

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2969888&postcount=55

I added more data to my lumens testing and comparison of the MD2 host with an M60 to a Solarforce host with no glass in the bezel as was requesteed. I added data that I took running the MD60 in the solarforce host using a DC supply to simulate holding at very close to 12V and then at 7.33V. 

I like comparing running off DC supply to batteries to show that the slight sag in output is not due to battery sag but to the warm up of the LED chip and phosphor. Some degree of sag is normal. 

In general the Solarforce with no glass in the bezel with its wider opening allows about 5% more light output than the MD2 host, but I would not run this looser head style with no glass in the bezel. If you use the crenellated bezel which sticks out much further, that will cut off some peripheral light as well as I found out a long time ago, so what you might gain in protecting the module with greater distance you still lose in light. With the O-Ring in the front of the MD2 unit and the locking ring in the back, I believe the MD2 is still more secure in keeping moisture and contamination out of the LED module and battery compartment than an L2 would be with no glass in it by far. I would say the same for a 6P with no glass as well. G.


----------



## Gene43 (Jun 7, 2009)

How does the MD2 (no lens) compare to a 6P/L2 with lens using the same M60?


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 7, 2009)

Gene, Mr G man, or who ever wants to chime in, 

Can the resistor ring switch handle the current from the direct drive MCE module without any issues?


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jun 7, 2009)

MrGman, thanks for update. What I was looking for.

Bill


----------



## gsxrac (Jun 7, 2009)

kyhunter1 said:


> Gene, Mr G man, or who ever wants to chime in,
> 
> Can the resistor ring switch handle the current from the direct drive MCE module without any issues?





MrGman said:


> I was talking to Gene yesterday and asked him about this and he said "Yes" the 2 mode ring will work with the MC-E lights, he designed it that way. I did some calculations of what the 1 watt 75 ohm resistor could handle.
> 
> In order to get 1 watt across 75 ohms you need 115.47mA of current which creates a 8.66V drop across the resistor itself. You will never get there running the MC-E with 9 volts worth of batteries or less. With 2 RCR123 in the MD2 the most you could get is 8.4V under no load conditions to the entire system. for the MC-E you would have to have at the very least 3V to turn it on at low and have some output so that would be 5.4V max across the resistor. So you would never get the resistor to where it has the voltage drop and current to reach 1 watt. From what I see at best it would never get past 0.42 watts of power dissipation across itself being in low mode with an MC-E module being driven.
> 
> I will test it tonight and see what the lumens output in low mode is.


----------



## MrGman (Jun 7, 2009)

Gene43 said:


> How does the MD2 (no lens) compare to a 6P/L2 with lens using the same M60?


 
You get more output from the MD2 than the 6P and L2 hosts when you have a lens in them, especially the original glass of each. 

"Can the resistor ring switch handle the current from the direct drive MCE module without any issues?"

Yes it can handle the current in high and low. In high mode its just a solid piece of brass that can handle all of the current you think you're batteries will deliver. In low mode you wont be able to get those same batteries up to a high enough voltage drop to provide enough Power across the resistor to harm it as I already shown all the calculations above. You can't have a battery set in the MD2 for a DD MC-E that will run it successfully on high that would go over 6V, even that is too much, you will draw down the volts, draw lots of current (for a short period of time) max out the MC-E and not give you all the lumens you would have hoped for if you just ran it on 1 Lithium Ion battery that will run it at a good power level but not max. On low mode you will never hurt the resistor or the ring or the module. G


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 7, 2009)

It is good to know that it will work, thanks. How bright do you think the direct drive MCE will be in low mode?




MrGman said:


> You get more output from the MD2 than the 6P and L2 hosts when you have a lens in them, especially the original glass of each.
> 
> "Can the resistor ring switch handle the current from the direct drive MCE module without any issues?"
> 
> Yes it can handle the current in high and low. In high mode its just a solid piece of brass that can handle all of the current you think you're batteries will deliver. In low mode you wont be able to get those same batteries up to a high enough voltage drop to provide enough Power across the resistor to harm it as I already shown all the calculations above. You can't have a battery set in the MD2 for a DD MC-E that will run it successfully on high that would go over 6V, even that is too much, you will draw down the volts, draw lots of current (for a short period of time) max out the MC-E and not give you all the lumens you would have hoped for if you just ran it on 1 Lithium Ion battery that will run it at a good power level but not max. On low mode you will never hurt the resistor or the ring or the module. G


----------



## Illumination (Jun 7, 2009)

MrGman said:


> I will be testing that out later. Maybe post results Sunday night. G



Awesome, looking forward to seeing the results!


----------



## Illumination (Jun 7, 2009)

MrGman said:


> I was talking to Gene yesterday and asked him about this and he said "Yes" the 2 mode ring will work with the MC-E lights, he designed it that way. I did some calculations of what the 1 watt 75 ohm resistor could handle.
> 
> In order to get 1 watt across 75 ohms you need 115.47mA of current which creates a 8.66V drop across the resistor itself. You will never get there running the MC-E with 9 volts worth of batteries or less. With 2 RCR123 in the MD2 the most you could get is 8.4V under no load conditions to the entire system. for the MC-E you would have to have at the very least 3V to turn it on at low and have some output so that would be 5.4V max across the resistor. So you would never get the resistor to where it has the voltage drop and current to reach 1 watt. From what I see at best it would never get past 0.42 watts of power dissipation across itself being in low mode with an MC-E module being driven.
> 
> I will test it tonight and see what the lumens output in low mode is.




I'm not sure I follow all of the physics (it's been a long time since I took my Electromagnetics class). I understand your first point (W=VxC), but I don't follow where you are getting the 5.4V or 0.42 W. Can you please explain? Thanks!


----------



## MrGman (Jun 7, 2009)

8.4V is the max open circuit voltage of 2 LI rechargeable batteries. To turn on the M60 or the MC-E you need a minimum voltage drop "threshold" of about 3.0V. Absolute below 2.8V you get nothing. I have measured the turn on threshold of various LED modules and published the data of some. That is how I know this. 

8.4V minus 3V is 5.4V is the most you could have to drop across the resistor and have the light on. 5.4V across 75 ohms is 72mA. That will be roughly the current limit setting of the resistor establishing the low mode of the light. 5.4V times 72mA is 0.39 watts of power. Since its all DC current and voltage across the resistor this is the true power dissipation of the resistor. Its rated for one watt. Its also thermally strapped to a large brass heatsink. So I don't believe it could ever burn up at this power level.

Assuming some additional wiggle room in case my calculations aren't close enough I was going up to 0.42 watts. Even if we go up to 0.5 watts you can see that we can't over load the resistor. If we get the voltage drop across the resistor above 5.6V we can never turn on any LED module at all and so if its in cut off we have no current flow and therefore its open circuit. So the light output of the module will slowly drift down over a very long time to next to nothing as the battery voltage sags.
That is the beauty of a non regulated current limited resistor design for low mode. 

There will be a quiz later. G.


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## MrGman (Jun 7, 2009)

And the long awaited and eagerly anticipated results of an MC-E "cool" unit in the MD2 with freshly recharged AW RCR123's (2) and the 75 ohm two mode ring are:

*MCE-Cool**__MD2__**___low____*17.8___1 sec through 1 minute, dropped 0.1 lumen. 
*MCE-Cool**__MD2__**__high___*470.4___1 sec
*MCE-Cool**__MD2__**__high___*443.8__10 sec 

No glass in the MD2. Its drawing between 1.07 to 1.3 amps off those batteries so there will be some sag due to that in high mode. Very nice light.


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 8, 2009)

How would the readings from a direct drive module compare on low?



MrGman said:


> And the long awaited and eagerly anticipated results of an MC-E "cool" unit in the MD2 with freshly recharged AW RCR123's (2) and the 75 ohm two mode ring are:
> 
> *MCE-Cool**__MD2__**___low____*17.8___1 sec through 1 minute, dropped 0.1 lumen.
> *MCE-Cool**__MD2__**__high___*470.4___1 sec
> ...


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## MrGman (Jun 8, 2009)

kyhunter1 said:


> How would the readings from a direct drive module compare on low?


 

It would be the exact same as the regulated unit's based on battery voltage. You would be limited to either 2 primaries or 1 17670 or 18650 for 6V down to 3.7V. With 6V batteries your low mode is going to be 11 lumens. With 1 primary battery your low mode is going to be about 5 lumens at best. You can't run 2 RCR123's to drive the MC-E DD unit on high. Can't run a M30 equivalent DD on high with 2 RCR123's either, so you would either be permanently stuck in low mode or use the appropriate batteries. 11 at most down to 5 typical lumens for the battery configuration choices you would have. 

I only say you can use 2 primaries because I know that in high mode the voltage would sag real quick and you would probably just use it for quick on and off pulsing, it would not be good for anything else. G


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 8, 2009)

Thanks Mr G.


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## baterija (Jun 8, 2009)

MrGman said:


> *MCE-Cool**__MD2__**___low____*17.8___1 sec through 1 minute, dropped 0.1 lumen.



Very interesting combination of useful low and . Thanks for the hard work Gman. :twothumbs


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## MrGman (Jun 8, 2009)

baterija said:


> Very interesting combination of useful low and . Thanks for the hard work Gman. :twothumbs


 

I have run out of liquid test enhancer (Scotch) you can also help chip in for replacement. Who knows what lights won't test well or at all without it. Don't want to take a chance do you?


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## baterija (Jun 8, 2009)

MrGman said:


> I have run out of liquid test enhancer (Scotch) you can also help chip in for replacement.



Too bad I didn't see that earlier. I had some Celtic liquid test enhancer of a more southern variety (Irish whiskey) all ready to ship in the morning. I'll just have to dispose of it properly myself since it doesn't fit your test methodology. :naughty:


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## MrGman (Jun 8, 2009)

baterija said:


> Too bad I didn't see that earlier. I had some Celtic liquid test enhancer of a more southern variety (Irish whiskey) all ready to ship in the morning. I'll just have to dispose of it properly myself since it doesn't fit your test methodology. :naughty:


 
Ahhhh but it does fit my, new experimental test and trials plan very well. Part of the liquid cooling for the tester not the test item plan, Ship it.


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 9, 2009)

For those that own a camo MD2, how smooth is the finish? Can you feel any layering between the colors? If if it is completely smooth, I am thinking about getting a camo MD2. So far I love my black one.


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## MrGman (Jun 9, 2009)

kyhunter1 said:


> For those that own a camo MD2, how smooth is the finish? Can you feel any layering between the colors? If if it is completely smooth, I am thinking about getting a camo MD2. So far I love my black one.


 

The camo finish has no thickness to it. Its silky smooooooooothhhhhhh,
and purty. And yet the knurling provides such a good grip.

On second thought, these camo units are ugly and disgusting, you don't want any (I have to go order up the rest of them all for myself bwuhuhahahahahahaha).


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## Mjolnir (Jun 9, 2009)

The camo coating is made with anodizing dye, so it should not have any layering at all. In normal type II anodizing,the anodizing forms a layer of aluminum oxide, which is arranged into many microscopic pores (sort of like a honeycomb). When the dye is applied to the anodizing, the dye molecules go inside these pores. Anodizing utilizes a specific kind of dye with molecules that are small enough to fit inside these pores. After dying, the coating is sealed, either with boiling water or steam, or metal salts. This sealing process collapses/seals the pores, locking the dye in. 
The camo anodizing is done by a method known as "splash anodizing," the specifics of which are proprietary, and pretty much kept secret (I believe they sometimes paint the dye on specific areas instead of immersing the whole part in the dye like with normal anodizing). However, given how normal anodizing works, I would think that the areas of different colored dye would still need to be trapped within the aluminum oxide layer, making them essentially at the same level, with no overlap (especially since the anodizing layer is probably less than a thousandth of an inch). 
Therefore, the camo MD2 should have essentially the same texture as the normal type II anodized model.


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## da.gee (Jun 9, 2009)

Yes. My camo one sucks too. Please leave them in stock in case I need another.


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 9, 2009)

Looks like a camo MD2 may be in my near future.


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## Sector7 (Jun 9, 2009)

With the black and camo MD-2, you can enable low mode and apply downward force to the bezel to get momentary high cause there is enough play in the threads. In the HA MD-2, the threads seem to have tighter tolerance and no play is found.


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## Illumination (Jun 10, 2009)

MrGman said:


> 8.4V is the max open circuit voltage of 2 LI rechargeable batteries. To turn on the M60 or the MC-E you need a minimum voltage drop "threshold" of about 3.0V. Absolute below 2.8V you get nothing. I have measured the turn on threshold of various LED modules and published the data of some. That is how I know this.
> 
> 8.4V minus 3V is 5.4V is the most you could have to drop across the resistor and have the light on. 5.4V across 75 ohms is 72mA. That will be roughly the current limit setting of the resistor establishing the low mode of the light. 5.4V times 72mA is 0.39 watts of power. Since its all DC current and voltage across the resistor this is the true power dissipation of the resistor. Its rated for one watt. Its also thermally strapped to a large brass heatsink. So I don't believe it could ever burn up at this power level.
> 
> ...



Makes sense; thanks. Helped jog my memory of Ohms Law and the Power Formula. I may just be able to pass your quiz...

Besides the voltage drop, does an led also have a resistance? That would make sense...allow you to calculate the amount of wattage converted to light.

Thanks again.


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## MrGman (Jun 10, 2009)

Illumination said:


> Makes sense; thanks. Helped jog my memory of Ohms Law and the Power Formula. I may just be able to pass your quiz...
> 
> Besides the voltage drop, does an led also have a resistance? That would make sense...allow you to calculate the amount of wattage converted to light.
> 
> Thanks again.


 
Yes the LED die has resistance in the on state. You can't simply measure it at a turn on voltage and current and say that is what it is. You have to calculate based on the slope of the line of the current draw after you get passed the turn on voltage "knee" of the diode. It may be like 100 milliohms. So you either plot a lot of points or put it on a Curve Tracer like I have in my lab. However if you are trapped behind the built in driver circuit of a complete module and cannot measure the LED by itself directly then you cannot measure it at all. YOu will only see the driver regulation circuitry into an unknown fixed "load".


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## Illumination (Jun 11, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Yes the LED die has resistance in the on state. You can't simply measure it at a turn on voltage and current and say that is what it is. You have to calculate based on the slope of the line of the current draw after you get passed the turn on voltage "knee" of the diode. It may be like 100 milliohms. So you either plot a lot of points or put it on a Curve Tracer like I have in my lab. However if you are trapped behind the built in driver circuit of a complete module and cannot measure the LED by itself directly then you cannot measure it at all. YOu will only see the driver regulation circuitry into an unknown fixed "load".



Ok, thanks. Assume the above setup....75 ohm resistor, 0.072 Amp current, 8.4 V source with a 3 volt drop across the led. And lets say your estimate of the Led is correct .1 ohms... How much power is used by the Led? Is it simply P=IxE where E=IxR so P=IXIXR = 0.072A X 0.072A X .1 = 0.0005 watts?

I assume the led resistance is MUCH higher at higher current. Otherwise, the calculations wouldn't make sense: E=IxR, with E=5.4 volts and R = 0.1 ohm would imply I = 54 Amps (way too high) and P = IxE = 54A X 5.4V = 291.6 watts (too high!)

I am trying to understand how much energy is used in the "low" mode by the resistor vs. the led, and how much energey is used by the led alone in high mode. I remember reading years ago people complaining of the "heat waste" in a resistor driven low mode like the McE2S...I'm trying to understand the impact on efficiency in this setup. I'm sure I medded up my calcs somewhere...so apologies in advance.

Thanks!


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## MrGman (Jun 11, 2009)

Illumination said:


> Ok, thanks. Assume the above setup....75 ohm resistor, 0.072 Amp current, 8.4 V source with a 3 volt drop across the led. And lets say your estimate of the Led is correct .1 ohms... How much power is used by the Led? Is it simply P=IxE where E=IxR so P=IXIXR = 0.072A X 0.072A X .1 = 0.0005 watts?
> 
> I assume the led resistance is MUCH higher at higher current. Otherwise, the calculations wouldn't make sense: E=IxR, with E=5.4 volts and R = 0.1 ohm would imply I = 54 Amps (way too high) and P = IxE = 54A X 5.4V = 291.6 watts (too high!)
> 
> ...


 

I usually charge a big Pizza dinner for answers like this. Your calculations are wrong based on an incorrect premise.

The resistance of a die that comes after the voltage curve knee tells the you the impedance of a turned on diode but the power dissipation is the total voltage drop times the current. The bulk resistance of a die does not change as a function of current only the total voltage drop based on the knee voltage and the I squared R voltage increases across the turned on die. That is why you need to see the curve of a turned on diode on a curve tracer. 

0.072 amps through the resistor is 5.4V. total power of the resistor is 0.072A X 5.4V = 0.3888W

8.4V - 5.4V = 3V drop across the LED. 3V X that same 0.072 amp series current is 0.216 watts. 0.216 w (LED module) plus 0.3888 w (R1) is 0.6048 w total consumed power

Efficiency of the led is 0.216 divided by the total power of 0.6048 = 35.71%. Its not great but still you wouldn't have a low mode without it. Even step down modes of regulated drivers lose efficiency in low mode, you just never get to see what the breakdown is. and its not that important, what is important is that your in a mode where your only drawing roughly 1/10th of the normal current from the battery so you should get 10 times longer run time. 

Now the total power was 0.6048 watts. The total battery voltage was 8.4V with again 0.072 amps in series (can't be anything else, no step up or step down conversion). 8.4V X 0.072 amps is magically 0.6048 watts.

So the battery is delivering 0.6 watts and the resistor and the LED module are consuming 0.6 watts. 

To answer the question of where all the power is going in high mode, the resistor is bypassed, ALL of the power is going to the LED module. Its driver kicks in and sends a certain amount of power to the LED and spends some of the total power on itself. Since we can't see the voltage drops and currents between the driver and the LED we cannot calculate them. 

I have seen claims of 85 to 92% efficiency of these driver circuits, they are most efficient at their higher power levels. At lets say 5 watts total power consumption and say 88% efficiency thats 4.4 watts to the LED and 0.6 watts to the driver. 

Send the pizza to Class is now out of Session at Do your homework Avenue. 

No more questions. G.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 11, 2009)

MrGman, you apparently have the newest MD2 Kroll switch. Would you please take it out and measure the resistance of that switch using the Ohm meter on your DMM? Maybe compare it to the resistance of a Surefire 6P switch, and/or a Solarforce? Thanks,

Bill


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 11, 2009)

This thread just keeps getting better! :thumbsup: Can't wait to see Mr. G's response.



Bullzeyebill said:


> MrGman, you apparently have the newest MD2 Kroll switch. Would you please take it out and measure the resistance of that switch using the Ohm meter on your DMM? Maybe compare it to the resistance of a Surefire 6P switch, and/or a Solarforce? Thanks,
> 
> Bill


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## Sector7 (Jun 11, 2009)

Mr G would say class dismissed and send the pizza pie over. :devil:


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## MrGman (Jun 11, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> MrGman, you apparently have the newest MD2 Kroll switch. Would you please take it out and measure the resistance of that switch using the Ohm meter on your DMM? Maybe compare it to the resistance of a Surefire 6P switch, and/or a Solarforce? Thanks,
> 
> Bill


 

What? Can't I use the micro ohmmeter with 4 point Kelvin connections to do it right? Or the DC Resistance meter furnction of the DC Bias unit that measures it at 2.0 amps using gold plated Kelvin connection type contacts. I have to use a 2 wire multimeter in ohmmeter mode? These meters can properly measured down under 1 milliohm so I am not just measuring the resistance of my test leads and contacts. Did you want a bad reading on purpose???? :nana:


So actually the bad news is that I don't want to pull my switch out. I want to leave my MD2 intact and continue to use it and evaluate it in the "as delivered" state. I don't want to break the seal on the back end even if its designed to come back together again. Its probably not going to be as snug as it is right now. I will look for a way to measured total resistance to the shell using 4 point Kelvin Connections later.

If you don't know what 4 point Kelvin connections are and why we use them, do some research. But that is the only way to do it right. Any one who tries to measure resistance below 10 ohms without it is doing it wrong.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 11, 2009)

Wow, I will ask no more simple questions.  Yeah, use the latest gizmo to check the resistance, and I expect results to the 0.00000001 of an Ohm.:devil:


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## Moddoo (Jun 11, 2009)

Nice post as always G.
:twothumbs

Oh yeah, I love my MD2 also, can't wait to get my 2 level ring.


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## Illumination (Jun 13, 2009)

MrGman said:


> I usually charge a big Pizza dinner for answers like this. Your calculations are wrong based on an incorrect premise.
> 
> The resistance of a die that comes after the voltage curve knee tells the you the impedance of a turned on diode but the power dissipation is the total voltage drop times the current. The bulk resistance of a die does not change as a function of current only the total voltage drop based on the knee voltage and the I squared R voltage increases across the turned on die. That is why you need to see the curve of a turned on diode on a curve tracer.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Quite a lot to digest. Pulling out my HP calculator and a cold one. I certainly didn't learn this stuff in school...


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## MrGman (Jun 13, 2009)

Illumination said:


> Thanks. Quite a lot to digest. Pulling out my HP calculator and a cold one. I certainly didn't learn this stuff in school...


 

Send the "cold one" to me till you finish your homework!. 

Okay here is a quick example of the numbers just to show you how it works just cause I am in the mood.

You have an LED that at 3.0V is drawing 10mA. Take it up to 1.000 A and lets say for the point of example it now has 3.4V drop across it.

The bulk resistance of the die could be calculated as 3.4V minus 3.0V over 1000mA minus 10mA.

0.4V delta over 0.990A delta which gives you 0.40404 ohms impedance. Knowing what is the actual turned on impedance of the real die will help you to design a driver circuit to keep it powered up through the various modes. These are just example numbers, don't quote me that this is from an Actual LED and may be wrong or too high or low.

But knowing what the "load line" is you know if you increase the current to 1.4A, the voltage drop will go up to 1.390 X 0.40404 plus the original 3V at 10mA. 
thus the final voltage drop should be around 3.5616. I would round that to 3.56. If you only wanted to push 200mA through it for a medium mode. That would be 190mA X 0.40404 plus the original 3V at 10mA and you know its going to be. Thus its only 3.077V. 

Using 3.077V and .200 A you would not say the "resistance" of the LED is 15.44 ohms. Its total impedance at that point may appear to be that but its still only got a 0.40404 ohm bulk resistance of the die and a turned on junction threshold of 2.8 to 3.0V.

At 3.4V and 1A you would not say that the "resistance" of the LED is 3.4 ohms. The bulk resistance of the die did not and could not change. The resistive load line doesn't start at 0V because its on a "curve" based on the actual turn on "knee" voltage of a diode. 

A design engineer who actually knows the true load line resistance of the component in question and also the source impedance of his power supply will know what the voltage sag will be based on going from very small quiescent current to rated load. This is important in designing how good a regulated driver should be or what the ballast load resistor would be in a very simple design to run that same LED with 6V batteries without any driver at all, just a load resistor, like I found in a 1 watt LED flashlight. Running off of 3 AA alkaline batteries the only thing between those batteries and the LED was a 2.8 ohm resistor.

4.5V-3.0V is 1.5V. The most current that could ever be put through the LED is 1.5V/2.8 ohm or 0.5357A right? That would be wrong. The bulk die resistance (in this example) is 0.404 ohms. 2.8 ohms plus 0.40404 ohms is 3.20404 ohms. 1.5V differential divided by 3.20404 ohms is now 0.4682 amps. Except when you turn it on you really don't draw that either. What's wrong dagnabit. Battery voltage sagged, because internal resistance of those batteries from theoretical ideal occurred. Current draw was really about 400mA. 1.5V differential (from the ideal battery stack) divided by 0.400A is 3.75 ohms. we have 3.75 ohms minus that of the LED bulk resistance and the 2.8 ohm resistor (3.204) leaving about 0.55 ohms of resistance of the 3 batteries in series cause their Alkalines and they sag and that's why their internal current carrying capacity is limited by their own internal impedances in series so thats about 0.182 ohms per battery.

These are just example numbers. I know they are close to the truth based on the internal resistor of the flashlight I found and others I have built to do the same thing but they are not exact and do not apply to each and every LED and set of batteries. Its just an example of how you can determine bulk die resistance and why you need it instead of just taking total LED voltage divided by current draw at one level and saying, well I've got 3.4 ohms impedance, I can design a driver around that. It won't work, you have to know the die impedance was really (in this example) 0.4 ohms.

Take 4 die in parallel for a P7 or MC-E type device and low and behold 0.404 ohms in parallel with 3 more 0.404 ohm loads is 0.101 ohms. Turn that on at 3V and you have 40mA. Take that up to 3.4V and magically you are drawing 3.96 amps. Lets say you only want to take it up to a total of 3 amps (750mA per die) at 2.96 amps (we already had 40mA at 3.0V) times 0.10101 ohms for the total that's now thats 0.299V across the bulk resistance, started at 3.0V with 40mA we are now up to roughly 3.3V and 3 amps. Total power draw is in fact 9.9 watts, so you better have a driver that can handle it.

If we drive that with one single 18650 battery that is 4.2V under no load. What really happens. 4.2V- 3.0V is 1.2V. the bulk resistance of 4 die in parallel is only 0.101 ohms. thats 11.88 amps. Never going to happen. Battery voltage sags. We typically get about 3 amps draw from that one battery and thats it, lets be generous and say 3.3A. Use the same starting open circuit voltage. 4.2V-3.0V (1.2V) divided by 3.3 amp is 0.36 ohms total impedance. The bulk impedance of the dice is 0.101. That really makes that battery have a bulk impedance of its own of about 0.263 ohms. So battery voltage sags. We see it at the terminals as 3.3A X that 0.263 ohms and we have a 0.867V drop across the battery and only 3.333V that we see at the external terminals of the battery. Well maybe. Maybe at 3.3amps current draw the switch resistance and all the surface contact resistance starts to add in and affect the circuit. Lets say that the turned on switch and all of the contact resistance is worth 70 milliohms. This is an example maybe more or less in the real world, not all switches are the same either. 

So going back up to where we had 1.2V/3.3 amps for a bulk impedance of 0.36 ohms. 0.10101 ohms for the dice, plus 0.070 ohms for the contact and switch resistance gets us up to 0.171 ohms. 0.36 ohms - 0.171 ohms is .189 ohms internal impedance for the battery. 3.3 amps X 0.189 is a 0.6237V drop from the ideal battery voltage of 4.2V. 4.2V - 0.6237 is 3.576V across the battery under a heavy load. If we could carefully measure the voltage drops across the switch and case contact to the LED housing we might actually see a 0.23V drop, maybe not, maybe its less. Point is we can run a direct drive LED P7 off of a single 18650 battery and not draw 11 amps and go . Everything has some impedance but it isn't always the simple values we calculate by saying I have 4.2V open circuit voltage and 3.3A when turned on. Hey I put 13.86 watts into my LED why aint I getting a thousand lumens??? It doesn't work that way, and we haven't even gotten into efficiency losses due to heat yet.

These are also just theoretical example numbers. If they don't fit your exact calculations for some LED, oh well. Also note that the Lithium Ion battery impedance should be less if kept within its more normal current draw ratings, its not a straight line. Resistance of all batteries goes up as they get older. Bulk resistance of a die is constant. 

If this makes sense, send pizza and Scotch! :tired:


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## Toohotruk (Jun 13, 2009)

WOW! oo:


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## da.gee (Jun 13, 2009)

My head hurts.


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## gsxrac (Jun 13, 2009)

Hey Gman! Luckily I understood almost all of your last post, id say at least 20% of it. Ohh wait... 20% isnt much, or even alot lol. Anyways just wondering, what do you do for a living?


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## kyhunter1 (Jun 13, 2009)

:wow:




MrGman said:


> Send the "cold one" to me till you finish your homework!.
> 
> Okay here is a quick example of the numbers just to show you how it works just cause I am in the mood.
> 
> ...


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## MrGman (Jun 14, 2009)

gsxrac said:


> Hey Gman! Luckily I understood almost all of your last post, id say at least 20% of it. Ohh wait... 20% isnt much, or even alot lol. Anyways just wondering, what do you do for a living?


 
I run a failure analysis lab for electronics/electrical/mechanical equipment for Aerospace industry. Been doing it for over 27 years.


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## gsxrac (Jun 14, 2009)

Ah haa. That explains it then!


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## JJay03 (Jun 15, 2009)

Well finally ordered me a black MD2 cant wait to get it. Im going to run a M30 in it with an imr 18650. Will probably be my edc light eventually I might get the switch ring also.


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## Fooboy (Jun 15, 2009)

What is the runtime on "low" (with 2 stage selector ring) with 2 CR123 primaries?

Thanks!


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## MrGman (Jun 15, 2009)

Fooboy said:


> What is the runtime on "low" (with 2 stage selector ring) with 2 CR123 primaries?
> 
> Thanks!


 
Better than 20 hours and probably better than 25 hours. Is that enough?


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## Fooboy (Jun 15, 2009)

yes - that is wonderful. Thanks.


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## Illumination (Jun 15, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Send the "cold one" to me till you finish your homework!.
> 
> Okay here is a quick example of the numbers just to show you how it works just cause I am in the mood.
> 
> ...



Holy moley!!!! :bow: :wow: :wow:

Just going through now....will let you know if this all makes sense.


This is great!


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## Kwanon13 (Jun 16, 2009)

With a Mini-Mag tail cap screwed in, it might be a contender for toughest light...look out Twisty!


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## gsxrac (Jun 17, 2009)

Well Gman not sure if youve already tested this but I realized when I switched from my M60LL to my M30 that the low on the M60LL is much brighter. id say 2-3 times brighter?


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## dirtech (Jun 17, 2009)

Kwanon13 said:


> With a Mini-Mag tail cap screwed in, it might be a contender for toughest light...look out Twisty!



You can screw a mini mag tail cap in there where the kroll switch goes?

I am curious how that would look.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 17, 2009)

Kwanon13 said:


> With a Mini-Mag tail cap screwed in, it might be a contender for toughest light...look out Twisty!



Have you tried this out? You would probably have to unscrew the head quite a bit to turn if off, past the low stage mode if you are using the resistor ring.

Bill


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## Owen (Jun 17, 2009)

gsxrac said:


> Well Gman not sure if youve already tested this but I realized when I switched from my M60LL to my M30 that the low on the M60LL is much brighter. id say 2-3 times brighter?


The current allowed by the resistor is based on battery voltage, so the two cell setups will be brighter on low.


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## gswitter (Jun 17, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Have you tried this out? You would probably have to unscrew the head quite a bit to turn if off, past the low stage mode if you are using the resistor ring.


You do have to unscrew the bezel quite a bit, but there's still about two full rotations left.

It's hard to tell from these pics, but the MiniMag tailcap is small enough that it recesses completely into the body, and it allows the MD2 to tail stand.


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## dirtech (Jun 17, 2009)

Is that a PITA to turn, especially from high?


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## MrGman (Jun 17, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Have you tried this out? You would probably have to unscrew the head quite a bit to turn if off, past the low stage mode if you are using the resistor ring.
> 
> Bill


 

Ahh my young paduwa learner. I knew without even testing it that the M30 would be the lowest of the low. You didn't just change from an M60 to an M30 you changed batteries as well. You went from at least 2 primaries down to one 18650 type battery. From all the math examples I have shown previously in this thread you should tell me within 3mA of what the low level current draw would be limited to with an M30 and the appropriate battery going through the 75 ohm resistor. I have given enough info on the current draw of an M30 in various threads as well.

Start now. 

You have 30 minutes then set down your number 2 pencil and turn in your paper. Or your MD2 will be confiscated.


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## Kwanon13 (Jun 17, 2009)

gswitter said:


> You do have to unscrew the bezel quite a bit, but there's still about two full rotations left.
> 
> It's hard to tell from these pics, but the MiniMag tailcap is small enough that it recesses completely into the body, and it allows the MD2 to tail stand.


 Malkoff twisty with a lanyard attatchment- looking good! :twothumbs


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jun 17, 2009)

A 22 Ohm resistor would work ok with the M30.

Bill


----------



## Rothrandir (Jun 17, 2009)

Cool, almost like it was designed for that!


----------



## MrGman (Jun 17, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> A 22 Ohm resistor would work ok with the M30.
> 
> Bill


 

The question was what would the current through the resistor and therefore the LED module in series be using the standard 75 ohms resistor. At best it would be 13 milliamps.

Using your selected 22 ohm resistor (was that a SWAG?)
you would get somewhere between 45mA max down to a more typical 23mA.

Using my ideal 15 ohm resistor it would be a more useful 68 to 40 mA for useful light at turn on from 1 X 18650.

Those would only have to be 1/2 watt resistors max. That would be for M30's only.


----------



## Kwanon13 (Jun 18, 2009)

...I was just handling my MD2, reflecting on the Kroll saga. Finally tired of the flakey momentary performance of the switch I- backed it off just a hair: works better than ever. Maybe some of the switches were over torqued in assembly? Worth a shot if anyone is still having problems.


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 18, 2009)

Tempted to give the tailstanding minimag switch idea a whirl.


----------



## Owen (Jun 18, 2009)

Kwanon13 said:


> ...I was just handling my MD2, reflecting on the Kroll saga. Finally tired of the flakey momentary performance of the switch I- backed it off just a hair: works better than ever. Maybe some of the switches were over torqued in assembly? Worth a shot if anyone is still having problems.


Anyone having continuity problems might also try wrapping a layer of aluminum foil around the threads, and screwing it back in. The Kroll has been the source of problems for several popular lights. Maybe future runs could have the tail redesigned to use a McClicky instead?

I'm hoping there'll be a 2x18500 version of the MD2 at some point, too.


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 18, 2009)

Second that. 2 x 18500 would be a really nice size for this light, should be similar to a 9P. This would be the best option for the MCE modules. Are you listening Gene?


----------



## briteflite (Jun 18, 2009)

kyhunter1 said:


> Second that. 2 x 18500 would be a nice really size for this light, should be similar to a 9P. This would be the best option for the MCE modules. Are you listening Gene?


 
I picked up a Fivemega 2x18650 body in the CPF marketplace for my M60-MCE. Works great.


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## Gene43 (Jun 19, 2009)

Kwanon13 said:


> ...I was just handling my MD2, reflecting on the Kroll saga. Finally tired of the flakey momentary performance of the switch I- backed it off just a hair: works better than ever. Maybe some of the switches were over torqued in assembly? Worth a shot if anyone is still having problems.


 
If anyone is having issues with the newer switches; I would like to know about it. I want to make sure that this issue is handled once and for all.

Gene


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## tundratrader (Jun 19, 2009)

Mine works perfect everytime. I have hundreds of clicks on it at this point. The light with m60w has been in pocket and on the job since I received it. The lens has no scratches so I feel there is little concern or need to install an extra lens to this perfect light. I also went with the m60w and feel that this is the best color by far. It is alot easier on the eyes than my m60. As well I have had one of the new AW 18650 2600mah cells installed since new and just checked the voltage it is still at 3.933. I would estimate that I have about an hour and a half of runtime. So this is definatly the hot setup as far as I am concerned. 

Zach


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## MrGman (Jun 19, 2009)

Gene43 said:


> If anyone is having issues with the newer switches; I would like to know about it. I want to make sure that this issue is handled once and for all.
> 
> Gene


 

Yes I have an "issue" with my switch, Its becoming a major problem. I am addicted to clicking it and showing off the M60-MCE that I have in there. 

G.


----------



## Mjolnir (Jun 19, 2009)

A good solution be to send me your light, thereby ridding you of your horrid impulsive clicking problem.


----------



## JJay03 (Jun 19, 2009)

Just got my MD2 and I love it!!! I like it better then my 6pd I think. Only thing that pissed me off was I dont have a very good pair of snap ring pliers and when I was tightening the retaining ring I scratched a thread a bit in the bezel ughhhhh. It also fits better in my holster then the 6pd. I also like others did notice it gets brighter once you switch it on from momentary. The M30 with the imr18650 might seem a tad brighter then the m60 in the 6pd on primarys but not by much. Gene did a very good job with this light though. :thumbsup:


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## etc (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks for the pics, looks good.

To reiterate, 9P-sized unit would be great, on 3x123 or 2x18500.


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## JJay03 (Jun 19, 2009)

NP I figured there wasnt enough pictures of the md2 around.


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## PurpleDrazi (Jun 20, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Yes I have an "issue" with my switch, Its becoming a major problem. I am addicted to clicking it and showing off the M60-MCE that I have in there.
> 
> G.




I suspect that issue is not covered under Gene's warrenty



Francis


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## JJay03 (Jun 20, 2009)

I notice my md2 gets alot hotter with the m30 then the 6p with the m60. I guess that could be a good thing if a lot of the heat is transferring to the body.


----------



## MrGman (Jun 20, 2009)

JJay03 said:


> I notice my md2 gets alot hotter with then m30 then the 6p with the m60. I guess that could be a good thing if a lot of the heat is transferring to the body.


 

Yes if the body is getting hotter that means its transfering the heat to the body and that is a good thing. I have noticed that my Solarforce and Surefire hosts get hotter if I use a Malkoff module inside and it is snugly wrapped with either Aluminum or Copper foil tape to improve the heat transfer to maximum. In the MD2 with that Aluminum or brass retaining rings that make good mechanical contact that helps ensure a thermal path to the housing. I have been using the MC-E modules in mine which do get hotter as they draw more power and feel the head getting warm and its been working just fine. G


----------



## dirtech (Jun 21, 2009)

Gene43 said:


> If anyone is having issues with the newer switches; I would like to know about it. I want to make sure that this issue is handled once and for all.
> 
> Gene



I get flickering/blinking when the switch is depressed in momentary and at the most inward part of the motion when going to constant on. Not sure if my switch is the upgraded one or not. I did not order directly from you.

I wouldn't call this an issue for me so this is just FYI.

Are these switches easily removed?


----------



## Gene43 (Jun 21, 2009)

dirtech said:


> I get flickering/blinking when the switch is depressed in momentary and at the most inward part of the motion when going to constant on. Not sure if my switch is the upgraded one or not. I did not order directly from you.
> 
> I wouldn't call this an issue for me so this is just FYI.
> 
> Are these switches easily removed?


 
What is the serial number?


----------



## dirtech (Jun 21, 2009)

Gene43 said:


> What is the serial number?


 
0399


----------



## Gene43 (Jun 21, 2009)

dirtech said:


> 0399


 
PM sent

Gene


----------



## dirtech (Jun 22, 2009)

Talked to Gene last night. A little finagling with one of the springs in the switch and no more flicker. Flipped the side spring over and made sure that the end of the spring wire where it terminates on the top and bottom was facing the outside radius of the switch. These switches seem incredibly simple on the inside. 

Thanks Gene.


----------



## Illumination (Jun 22, 2009)

Gene, when do you expect more HA-Nat bodies?

I know some other dealers still have them - how do I know if they have the new (improved?) Kroll switch vs. the older switch?


----------



## paintballdad (Jun 22, 2009)

I believe that the natural HA MD2 will no longer be offered. The anodizing came out a little splotchy on some. Gene wanted them to be perfect so he pulled the rest of his stock from the website. I have one of the natural HA bodies and although the head is a little splotchy i'm still happy with it. I recommend grabbing one of the natural HA while the other dealers still have them. And make sure you pick up a 2 level switch ring with it. 

I'm in for one of the black HA when Gene puts them up for sale. :thumbsup:


----------



## Gene43 (Jun 22, 2009)

Illumination said:


> Gene, when do you expect more HA-Nat bodies?
> 
> I know some other dealers still have them - how do I know if they have the new (improved?) Kroll switch vs. the older switch?


 
There will be no more HA Natural. Better than half of them were splotchy. The HA Naturals that dealers have do have the new switch. Ha will only be in black in the future.

Thanks, Gene


----------



## dirtech (Jun 22, 2009)

Although my HA md2 is a bit splotchy, I love the color of the body. The splotchyness just adds a little character. I wouldn't let it dissuade anyone from buying one.

Any chance of future hd2's having a bit of knurling on the head like the EagleTac T100C2 for easier mode switching?


----------



## tundratrader (Jun 22, 2009)

I think the splotches add uniqueness to the light. I for one do not care whatsoever. I think the finish may not be perfect but I do think it is a durable finish and that is the point of the HAIII. It also reminds me that the light was made by a man not a machine. Which I love in this day and age. 

I will gladly buy another splotchy one. 

Zach


----------



## Illumination (Jun 23, 2009)

Gene43 said:


> There will be no more HA Natural. Better than half of them were splotchy. The HA Naturals that dealers have do have the new switch. Ha will only be in black in the future.
> 
> Thanks, Gene



Thanks... any idea when the HA Blacks will be available? But then again, maybe I'll get in Nat.

Most likely I will end up buying both.

I love the idea of the two level ring. :thumbsup:


----------



## Gene43 (Jun 23, 2009)

HA Black should be available in a week +/-.


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 23, 2009)

Gene43 said:


> There will be no more HA Natural. Better than half of them were splotchy. The HA Naturals that dealers have do have the new switch. Ha will only be in black in the future.
> 
> Thanks, Gene


 
Sweet.... Collector's item.


----------



## Mjolnir (Jun 23, 2009)

I just watched the new "flashlight comparisons" video on the Malkoff site, and Gene mentions the "Malkoff MD4," which is presumably a 2 18650 host (since he says it is running 2 18650's). 

When can we expect these to be available?


----------



## Moddoo (Jun 23, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> I just watched the new "flashlight comparisons" video on the Malkoff site, and Gene mentions the "Malkoff MD4," which is presumably a 2 18650 host (since he says it is running 2 18650's).
> 
> When can we expect these to be available?



Uh oh, the cat's coming out of the bag...

more like a tiger


----------



## JJay03 (Jun 23, 2009)

Where on his site is this vid I didnt see it.


----------



## Owen (Jun 23, 2009)

Then you aren't looking very hard. 
It's the big square with "CLICK HERE TO PLAY" on it on the main page.

btw:


----------



## JJay03 (Jun 23, 2009)

I wasnt going to the main page I guess. That MD4 looks impressive cant wait to see that.


----------



## MrGman (Jun 23, 2009)

Dang if only I wasn't sworn to ultra top secret secrecy I could tell you how awesome it is, 

ITS AWESOME, YET VERY HANDY, YET AWESOME, YET BRILLIANT, 

OOPS I HAVE SAID TOO MUCH!!!!


----------



## PurpleDrazi (Jun 23, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Dang if only I wasn't sworn to ultra top secret secrecy I could tell you how awesome it is,
> 
> ITS AWESOME, YET VERY HANDY, YET AWESOME, YET BRILLIANT,
> 
> OOPS I HAVE SAID TOO MUCH!!!!



" . . . and after the black helicopters left, MrGman was never heard from again . . ."


----------



## bigchelis (Jun 23, 2009)

Well, if it's called the MD4.....it must be 4 of something


----------



## JJay03 (Jun 23, 2009)

Maybe md4 cause it would take 4 primaries or 2 18650's.


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 24, 2009)

MrGman said:


> Dang if only I wasn't sworn to ultra top secret secrecy I could tell you how awesome it is,
> 
> ITS AWESOME, YET VERY HANDY, YET AWESOME, YET BRILLIANT,
> 
> OOPS I HAVE SAID TOO MUCH!!!!


 
You suck at keeping secrets! 

Now tell us more!! :huh:


----------



## MrGman (Jun 24, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> You suck at keeping secrets!
> 
> Now tell us more!! :huh:


 
" . . . and after the black helicopters left, MrGman was never heard from again . . ."


mmm mmm mmm mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmm mmm mmm mmm...................................


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jun 24, 2009)

JJay03 said:


> Maybe md4 cause it would take 4 primaries or 2 18650's.


 Now call me goofy but shouldn't Gene make a drop-in to go with it that can handle 4 primary cells? 

Yes I'm just trying to get more new stuff made. :laughing:


----------



## bigchelis (Jun 24, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> Now call me goofy but shouldn't Gene make a drop-in to go with it that can handle 4 primary cells?
> 
> Yes I'm just trying to get more new stuff made. :laughing:


 

Or maybe the 4 of something in the bezel is soooo high powered that it needs maximun heatsink and can't be drop-in compatible.


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jun 24, 2009)

OoooH that's a good idea too!


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 24, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> OoooH that's a good idea too!


 
Oooo.... Four reflectors in the head, each one housing a P7. :huh:

Maybe MrGman's ghost could verify if I'm right, or even close?


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## bigchelis (Jun 24, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Oooo.... Four reflectors in the head, each one housing a P7. :huh:
> 
> Maybe MrGman's ghost could verify if I'm right, or even close?


 

Probably not P7's. Runtime would be an issue as well as heat. My LED ZEP 3 P7 in my M6 Mr.Dennis said run it on high 5~10 minutes max.

From what I recall Gene is all about max output for extended periods. He blends max output and runtime.

It might be 4 of something that is bright and can be left on for hours without heating and damaging the LED's or electronics.


----------



## MrGman (Jun 24, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Oooo.... Four reflectors in the head, each one housing a P7. :huh:
> 
> Maybe MrGman's ghost could verify if I'm right, or even close?


 
oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhohhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh
you are not even close. 

It will take batteries and have a low mode. :nana:


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jun 24, 2009)

OH I'm getting one!


----------



## MrGman (Jun 24, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> OH I'm getting one!


 

Actually while I was in the "spirit" world, I checked with Santa and the correct answer is "No, your not". so Sorry, and did I mention it will have a HIGH mode?


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jun 24, 2009)

_You wound me._ 

But the upshot is that you finally have confirmed the existence of Santa for me. My inner child squealed with delight till I smacked him in the head with the butt of my rifle. 
:twothumbs


----------



## dirtech (Jun 24, 2009)

MrGman said:


> oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhohhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh
> you are not even close.
> 
> It will take batteries and have a low mode. :nana:




How about a 2x18650 body with a larger output head. Maybe the body will be compatible with existing md2 bodies?


----------



## MrGman (Jun 24, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> _You wound me._
> 
> But the upshot is that you finally have confirmed the existence of Santa for me. _My inner child squealed with delight till I smacked him in the head with the butt of my rifle. _
> :twothumbs


 

*And that's the reason you can't have any new toys, inner child abuse.* Santa sees all. Now if you give away some nice lights and knives to the truly needy maybe he will see to it that you can buy one at the normal retail price. If you promise to stop buying low quality compromises also. 

Did I mention Gene has an Integration sphere system now and is using it to make sure his light output setting will be what he wants it to be and hold, so when he says its XXX lumens out the front, that will be the as warmed up value. Not no stinking 3 seconds after turn on only value. That high level top secret testing is going on as we speak to make sure you get a high quality light with no surprises. 

Shhshshshshshhhhhhhhhhh, you didn't hear anything.


----------



## Owen (Jun 24, 2009)

Hopefully, for the sake of versatility, that's a M60*S*(pot) MC-E with a new optic, since all the M60 models are compatible with 2x18650, and the M60 MC-E takes 4x123. 
The way the spot disperses at distance vs. the reflectored P7 is reminiscent of the M60's optic.


----------



## Mjolnir (Jun 24, 2009)

Is it an HID of some sort in a 2 18650 host!? Wait, HIDs don't have low modes. 
Darn...

Now Gene will not only have excellent products and customer service, but also accurate lumen measurements! Is this a first for a company? (no, surefire doesn't count, since they often underrate the lumens of their lights, which is still dishonest)


----------



## paintballdad (Jun 24, 2009)

Gene,

You sir are going to make me broke with all the good stuff you are coming out with. My birthday has passed, tax refund already spent and Father's Day is over. And i sure won't wait for Christmas to get more of your lights.


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 25, 2009)

MrGman said:


> oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhohhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh
> you are not even close.
> 
> It will take batteries and have a low mode. :nana:


 
Low mode?? :duh2:

You mean I still have to wait for Gene to make his pocket-sized version of the Sun? Okay.... I can wait.


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 25, 2009)

Finally got to test the new ring switch with my direct drive M60 MCE. It works flawless. Low appears to be around 3-5 lumens to my eyes, high appeared to be normal. When your using the high level, and then switch to low, it takes a few seconds for my eyes to adjust. Dropping from 500-600 lumens down to 5 lumens seems like almost no light at all, till my eyes adapted to the change. After my eyes adjusted, I really started to appreciate the usefullness of the low mode. The only other light I have with a low mode is my E1B. Side by side, the E1B was much brighter on low than the MD2. I am very satisfed with the new switch, workmanship is top notch as always with Malkoff products. Gene, you are a genius, guess that is where they got your name from, LOL.


----------



## bigchelis (Jun 25, 2009)

kyhunter1 said:


> Finally got to test the new ring switch with my direct drive M60 MCE. It works flawless. Low appears to be around 3-5 lumens to my eyes, high appeared to be normal. When your using the high level, and then switch to low, it takes a few seconds for my eyes to adjust. Dropping from 500-600 lumens down to 5 lumens seems like almost no light at all, till my eyes adapted to the change. After my eyes adjusted, I really started to appreciate the usefullness of the low mode. The only other light I have with a low mode is my E1B. Side by side, the E1B was much brighter on low than the MD2. I am very satisfed with the new switch, workmanship is top notch as always with Malkoff products. Gene, you are a genius, guess that is where they got your name from, LOL.


 
These are the actual out the front numbers on the Malkoff MC-E direct drive. What you are seeing are the 406 out the front lumens.:thumbsup:


Readings done by MrGman. 
Malkoff MC-E_W_DD,________480__turn-on____________1_IMR 18650,_________SureFire 6P_No Bezel__(DD=direct drive)
Malkoff MC-E_W_DD,________457__turn-on____________1_IMR 18650,_________SureFire 6P_ Bezel AR coated Glass,
*Malkoff MC-E_W_DD,________406__warm,_____________1_IMR 18650,_________SureFire 6P_ Bezel AR coated glass,*


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 25, 2009)

Mine is the cool tint version. The numbers you posted are for a warm direct drive module. :nana:



bigchelis said:


> These are the actual out the front numbers on the Malkoff MC-E direct drive. What you are seeing are the 406 out the front lumens.:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Readings done by MrGman.
> ...


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jun 25, 2009)

kyhunter1 said:


> Mine is the cool tint version. The numbers you posted are for a warm direct drive module. :nana:



Hello kyhunter1, try checking out MrGmans Lumen testing thread. Go to post #3, and scroll down, and you should find out some short runs of the non W DD mode model. Good to do some searching on your own.

Bill


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jun 26, 2009)

All I could find in the thread was for the warm direct drive and for the cool tint regulated mods. 



Bullzeyebill said:


> Hello kyhunter1, try checking out MrGmans Lumen testing thread. Go to post #3, and scroll down, and you should find out some short runs of the non W DD mode model. Good to do some searching on your own.
> 
> Bill


----------



## bigchelis (Jun 26, 2009)

kyhunter1 said:


> Mine is the cool tint version. The numbers you posted are for a warm direct drive module. :nana:


 
ok, then add about 50 more lumens. The IMR 18650 sags, but if you use a fivemega 3 C with 3 NIMH cells you will get over 500 on turn-on like the P7 direct drive did.:twothumbs


----------



## etc (Jul 2, 2009)

Am I correct in assuming that the "low" of M60 on 1x18650 would be comparable to Gerber Infinity Ultra? (With Nichia LED)
Or perhaps some Fenix lite on low?


----------



## da.gee (Jul 3, 2009)

My guess is it lower than the low on a Fenix. It's pretty low but just fine for night excursions around the house. I really like the low level.


----------



## MrGman (Jul 3, 2009)

da.gee said:


> My guess is it lower than the low on a Fenix. It's pretty low but just fine for night excursions around the house. I really like the low level.


 
its going to be in the 0.5 to 2 lumen range running off the 18650 battery through the 75 ohm resistor. If that's what you want that is what you get. G


----------



## Viper715 (Jul 12, 2009)

I just ordered my first Malkoff today. I used the build your own light form. I bought a MD2 with a standard M60 and the Hi/Lo switch. I really can't wait to get it but I also want to buy a warm MCE and a M60F someday too.


----------



## recDNA (Jul 12, 2009)

Viper715 said:


> I just ordered my first Malkoff today. I used the build your own light form. I bought a MD2 with a standard M60 and the Hi/Lo switch. I really can't wait to get it but I also want to buy a warm MCE and a M60F someday too.


 
DO they assemble the flashlight for you or does it come in parts?


----------



## recDNA (Jul 12, 2009)

bigchelis said:


> These are the actual out the front numbers on the Malkoff MC-E direct drive. What you are seeing are the 406 out the front lumens.:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Readings done by MrGman.
> ...


 
But does the curve ever flatten or do the lumens continue to drop with time?


----------



## Viper715 (Jul 12, 2009)

Good question. I'll report back when I receive it. I just ordered it today. I guess they might assemble but who know there really isn't much to it so it wouldn't bother me any way. I left a message in the comments field when you order to see if they would look through and try and pick out a warmer tinted M60.


----------



## MrGman (Jul 12, 2009)

recDNA said:


> DO they assemble the flashlight for you or does it come in parts?


 

It comes assembled ready to rock and roll, just drop in batteries.

As to the other question about lumen fall off with time as it warms up it levels off with time after its warmed up.


----------



## TonyBPD (Jul 13, 2009)

I purchased a MD2 as well today. Can't wait for it to arrive!


----------



## MrGman (Jul 13, 2009)

The MD4 Wildcat is now being shown on the Malkoff Devices website and there is another thread started about it. So now you guys can go see what that is about. G.


----------



## recDNA (Jul 13, 2009)

MrGman said:


> It comes assembled ready to rock and roll, just drop in batteries.
> 
> As to the other question about lumen fall off with time as it warms up it levels off with time after its warmed up.


 

Thanks. Any advantage of the more expensive Elzetta over the MD2?


----------



## recDNA (Jul 13, 2009)

MrGman said:


> The MD4 Wildcat is now being shown on the Malkoff Devices website and there is another thread started about it. So now you guys can go see what that is about. G.


 
WOW! You know that warning about being careful not to look directly at the LED to prevent eye damage? In this case I believe it. Looks like the real deal.


----------



## Spitz (Jul 23, 2009)

bigchelis: please contact me at [email protected]

Sorry everyone but I can't pm so I had to do this here. 

If anyone is interested in selling one of the first 100 run of MD2 contact me at the above e-mail addy. Thanks.


----------



## arcane (Aug 5, 2009)

I just got my Camo MD2 + High/Low switch + M60WF and it it AWESOME! :rock:

I've been using the gold standard M60 (Pelican M6 host) for over a year now and it's been great. I work half the time on grave shift in an industrial environment and I blind myself every time I try to read something in-hand. 

I was impressed with the _slightly_ warmer tint of the M60 compared to other LED lights but the M60 looks so _blue_ compared to the M60WF! I exaggerating a little of course but I'm blown away by the warmness of the M60WF. 

With the switch on Low combined with the warmness and floody beam it's perfect for reading paperwork in the dark. 

On a final note, the camo anodizing is pimp!


----------



## MrGman (Aug 9, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUMjQSsQnyw

This is a video showing how to put together the head of an MD-2 with the switch ring and then converting the Switching the MD-4's Wildcat head to the MD-2 and vice versa. There is also an MD-3 body coming out. All very nice.


----------



## JJay03 (Aug 22, 2009)

Is there still the issue with the momentary on not being quite as bright?


----------



## DimeRazorback (Aug 22, 2009)

That isn't really an issue, more the fact that there is less contact in the swith when at the momentary position for the obvious reasons.


----------



## JJay03 (Aug 22, 2009)

Yeah it doesn't really bother me but its noticeable. Been awhile since I been on here.


----------



## DimeRazorback (Aug 22, 2009)

You sound like me 

I always notice little things people look over :nana:


----------



## Robert_M (Aug 22, 2009)

On my MD2-M30 (Type III Natural) running on an 18650 I get less output when pressing the switch momentarily but I get full output on my MD2-M60 (Type II Black) running on primaries and on my MD4-Wildcat I get full output as well. I should swap the heads on my on MD2s to see if this follows the body/switch. I agree with you guys its not a big deal its just a little strange since my Surefires with clickies (E1B, L4, L5) produce full output regardless of whether I press them momentarily or click them on.


----------



## DimeRazorback (Aug 22, 2009)

Sometime my SF clickies will 'flicker' output, when compressing the button.

It's just all to do with conduction.


----------



## fitzDaug (Aug 23, 2009)

JJay03 said:


> Is there still the issue with the momentary on not being quite as bright?



Wow! I feel so stupid.

I actually never tried momentary with my MD2 HA w/M60W and I've had it for several months and use it everyday.

I don't have the issue that you mentioned.

Thanks for bringing it up.


----------



## JJay03 (Aug 23, 2009)

It might just be when using the M30. Im also using a imr 18650 which im really happy with the run time.


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## Robert_M (Aug 23, 2009)

I think JJay03 is correct. I only see this issue on my M30 ... my M60 and my Wildcat don't have this issue.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 23, 2009)

Robert_M said:


> I think JJay03 is correct. I only see this issue on my M30 ... my M60 and my Wildcat don't have this issue.



The big difference between the M60 and M30 is current draw from the battery(s). The M60 with two CR123's may draw about 600+mA's, while the M30 with one 18650, up to 1500mA's. Any resistance issues with the tailcap switch will be magnified with the higher current draw.

Bill


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## Chodes (Aug 23, 2009)

Spitz said:


> bigchelis: please contact me at [email protected]
> 
> Sorry everyone but I can't pm so I had to do this here.
> 
> If anyone is interested in selling one of the first 100 run of MD2 contact me at the above e-mail addy. Thanks.



I have #0064...
email sent


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## Spitz (Aug 23, 2009)

Chodes said:


> I have #0064...
> email sent


 
Responded (x2....forgot to ask something in the first e-mail response). I'm interested but have a few questions.


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## Chodes (Aug 23, 2009)

Spitz said:


> Responded (x2....forgot to ask something in the first e-mail response). I'm interested but have a few questions.



I have not asked yet why you want a "first 100" light. There has been a bit of talk in this thread regarding the switch. As per my email , I got this light off CPF , bundled with some other stuff. I also got another MD2 off the forums - serial #251. I have stored the #0064 , used the #251.

I have now tested both and there is an obvious difference in the switch operation.
With the #64 , the switch is bouncy , ie you get a flash of light when switching on. The momentary is a bit dodgy too , as described in this thread.

So if you want a collectors item with "dodgy" switch - you have found your light! 
So that's either a great sales pitch , or a warning. I'm not sure which. :thinking:
Let's just call it honesty 

edit: using M60 and 18650.


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## MrGman (Aug 23, 2009)

Chodes said:


> I have not asked yet why you want a "first 100" light. There has been a bit of talk in this thread regarding the switch. As per my email , I got this light off CPF , bundled with some other stuff. I also got another MD2 off the forums - serial #251. I have stored the #0064 , used the #251.
> 
> I have now tested both and there is an obvious difference in the switch operation.
> With the #64 , the switch is bouncy , ie you get a flash of light when switching on. The momentary is a bit dodgy too , as described in this thread.
> ...


 
If you haven't tried twisting out the switch part way and putting it back in but not real tight you might find that the "dodgy"ness goes away. I am not sure if you have to take the rubber boot off to do that, probably makes it easier.


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## Mikellen (Sep 6, 2009)

I started thinking about purchasing an MD2 but I have a few questions that I hope to get answered before I make my decision.

(1) I read somewhere that Kroll switches will have a "parasitic drain" on the batteries. Is this true? If so is it only on certain model Kroll switches? Does the MD2 tailcap switch have this "parasitic drain" on the batteries?

(2) A few posts in this thread state that when the tailcap switch is used in momentary function that there is less light output compared to when the switch is fully activated. So if I use the MD2 with a Malkoff M60WL and a single lithium ion 3.7V battery should I expect that to happen? 

(3) How water resistant is the MD2 (with Malkoff LED module)? Would adding a lens to the bezel make it more water resistant or does it not matter? 
Is it as water resistant as a Surefire 6P?

(4) Are the aluminum walls thicker on the MD2 than a bored Surefire 6P walls would be? (For using 18650 sized battery).

Thank you for any answers.


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## Monocrom (Sep 6, 2009)

My buddy WadeF put his MD2 into a sink full of water while it was turned on. The light is clearly water-resistant.


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## MrGman (Sep 6, 2009)

Answers will be shown directly under each question. 





Mikellen said:


> I started thinking about purchasing an MD2 but I have a few questions that I hope to get answered before I make my decision.
> 
> (1) I read somewhere that Kroll switches will have a "parasitic drain" on the batteries. Is this true? If so is it only on certain model Kroll switches? Does the MD2 tailcap switch have this "parasitic drain" on the batteries?
> There is no parasitic drain. This is a simple mechanical switch, when it is off its open circuit. I have tested this.
> ...


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## Mikellen (Sep 6, 2009)

Thank you MrGman for the very thorough answers. I did not expect such a thoughful and well laid out reply. It was very much appreciated.

However I do have an additional question from the information that was provided.

You mentioned that the Malkoff MD2 does not have a removeable tail cap section. So if ever there is a mechanical malfunction with the clicky switch how could the switch be repaired? Would the whole body need to be sent back to Malkoff Devices for repair or replacement?

Thanks for being patient with me. Hopefully that will be my last question.

Thanks again.

EDIT: I think I understand now from your reply. The tail cap is not removeable but the switch is. Correct?


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## MrGman (Sep 6, 2009)

If ever the clicky switch goes bad in a Malkoff and thats a big IF, its under Warranty, Gene Malkoff will take care of it. However, just so you know. The switch itself screws out. Its not part of a separate tailcap piece that you normally unscrew to take the batteries off. On the MD2 you simply unscrew the entire head. The module stays tight inside the head due to the ring that secures it, and you can get a ring that is a 2 stage switch to have a low mode as well as the full power high mode. You need to look at the options more on the Malkoff website, its all there.


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## Xfinity (Sep 19, 2009)

My first post here as I just wanted to say thanks for the help in choosing a new work flashlight. I work as a cop in Stockholm, Sweden. 

Before I bought the MD2 (#655) with the M60, I've used an unmodified SF 6P and Streamlight Scorpion. And needless to say, the difference is huge .

Got the light yesterday and I field tested it right away with excellent results. During the night we got a call of two suspects trying to take an motorcycle. Once getting there we confronted the suspects, and using the MD2 I disoriented one of them. Simple and effective with minimal use of force (no permanently harm occurred on the suspects eyes of course). 

The only drawback I see on the MD2 is the power switch, I would have preferred a twisty but I love the MD2 and I rate this compact flashlight 9 out of 10.

Once again, thanks CPF and especially to Cathy and Gene Malkoff! :twothumbs

Best regards,
Daniel


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## brunt_sp (Jan 9, 2010)

I agree. A twisty version would be great along with that high/low bezel switch.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 9, 2010)

Xfinity, congratulations on that first post, and on your MD2 selection. I like mine as well, and yes, a twisty body would be excellent.

Bill


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## bigchelis (Jan 11, 2010)

+10

I too would like a twistie 18650 MD2 body. Plus, wouldn't we all benefit from the more compact size if this happened.:thinking:

My GF uses the M30 in a Keychain twistie VME combo and the simplicity of it is what she likes the best. 


bigC


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## brunt_sp (Jul 16, 2010)

Good news about a twisty version in an email from Gene dated 6th July, "Also please note that I will soon be adding 1 Cr123, 2 CR123, and 2 AA twisties in the near future when the M31 is released. It will probably be about 2-3 weeks". :thumbsup:


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 16, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> I too would like a twistie 18650 MD2 body. Plus, wouldn't we all benefit from the more compact size if this happened.:thinking:
> bigC



Yes, and the benefits of reduced resistance, with no tail switch. Don't think there will be a twisty MD2. I did remove the Kroll switch and screwed in a incan minimag tailcap, and my bounce with lightmeter showed higher output using the M30. You still have a small spring, but no other switch components. Remove the spring and place a piece of copper in the spring opening in the tailcap would give a more direct contact.

Bill


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