# Best Budget Lamp Upgrade for Surefire G2?



## slagell (Jan 15, 2008)

I am looking to spend no more than $35 (shipping included) for a new G2 incandescent lamp. Should I just get a P61 or go with a 3rd party? Basically, I just want a lot brighter.

:Adam


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## ugrey (Jan 16, 2008)

Get a Deal Extreme LED for about $10 shipped. It will never burn out and it is brighter. Go on their web page and read all the comments on the do it yourself flashlight parts (drop ins)and check the "sticky" at the top of the CPF LED forum on P60 drop ins.


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## Patriot (Jan 16, 2008)

The P61 is 120 (true) lumens out the front. Lumens factory makes some options also. They're all high quality and I've had good luck with them. Take the lumens ratings with a grain of salt...but they will EO-6 will be brighter and whiter than the P61.

http://lumensfactory.com/products.php?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=2


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## mdocod (Jan 16, 2008)

for this size class I tend to recommend going with an LED drop-in, plenty of good ones available under $35, and almost all of them will be brighter and run longer than your P60.


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## slagell (Jan 16, 2008)

I am specifically looking for incan. I have a ton of bright LED's, and this is my only incan light. I want to have one really good incan light.


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## Icebreak (Jan 16, 2008)

slagell -

There's a kind of zone that many of us think about and we try to figure what works best in that zone. It's the 2 cell to 3 cell zone. For intensity or sheer lux, in a 2 cell the Cree drop-ins will be impressive. To get an incandescent intensity level that is impressive it seems that a 3 cell host is needed. As has been noted in your other thread, this can get a little pricey because soon we start wanting other types of batteries to power P91s etc, then extensions or battery tubes and turbo heads and clickies and all that. But it's possible that investing in the $70.00 price range with a new or slightly used G3 and mating it with the H0-9 would be the way to go. I'd just hate to see someone invest in an upgrade for their flashlight and be displeased with the bang they got for their buck. Somebody said that a guy can go broke trying to save money.

But if you know that the H0-6 isn't going to blow you away with lux but you want to own something that has that great spectrum of an incandescent light, the H0-6 in your G2 should give you a very nice CRI and some very useful punch. Later, it might not be terrifically expensive to start feeding it rechargeables if you wish. And, as always when considering non-stock cells, check mdocod's compatibility thread in his sig line.

Good luck.


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## ugrey (Jan 16, 2008)

To me, 6 volt incands. are not worth it. I can't wait to get some kind of LED for my E2e. I have already converted all my other 6 volt lights to LED. You might be happy with a P61. I much prefer 9 volt P91s or 12 volt lights or my M6. I hope some of this helps. There is no single answer for this. Have fun.


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## TeaQue (Jan 16, 2008)

ugrey said:


> Get a Deal Extreme LED for about $10 shipped. It will never burn out and it is brighter. Go on their web page and read all the comments on the do it yourself flashlight parts (drop ins)and check the "sticky" at the top of the CPF LED forum on P60 drop ins.



Would this work on a brinkman maxfire as well?


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## Lost Time (Jan 16, 2008)

TeaQue said:


> Would this work on a brinkman maxfire as well?


 
Yes, it will. The both use the same lamp assembly. Any of the BOG, Malkoff, HK-direct P-60 drop-ins will work. If you need a sampling of them, see here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173764

I bought one for my Brinkmann off ebay for $22 shipped. It arrived in a "Solarforce" package, which appears to be the generic P-60 drop-in. They are available in several different bins if you look around. Looks great out of the package, I'm just waiting for the Maxfire to get here so I can do some comparisons.


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## jugg2 (Jan 16, 2008)

ugrey said:


> To me, 6 volt incands. are not worth it. I can't wait to get some kind of LED for my E2e. I have already converted all my other 6 volt lights to LED. You might be happy with a P61. I much prefer 9 volt P91s or 12 volt lights or my M6. I hope some of this helps. There is no single answer for this. Have fun.


 
If you go with rechargeables the amount of options goes way up.


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## slagell (Jan 16, 2008)

jugg2 said:


> If you go with rechargeables the amount of options goes way up.



Why, because P61 and higher have < 20 min charge time which is impractical?


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## Lost Time (Jan 16, 2008)

slagell said:


> Why, because P61 and higher have < 20 min charge time which is impractical?


 
I think he's referring to the fact you'll have more lamp options with rechargeables. The Lumens Factory lamps, for example, are designed specifically with rechargeables in mind. They make the HO-9, EO-9 and many others for use in 2-cell rechargeable lights. You can use 1 17670 in a 2 cell light, 2 17500's in a 3-cell light, or 2 17670's in a 4 cell light, with all kinds of bulb combinations available.


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## Germ (Jan 16, 2008)

How about going with RCR123 rechargeables and a 3 cell bulb?

From mdocod's (what? no "I am not worthy" smiley?) Lithium-Ion page http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536:

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Cell configuration: 2xRCR123

Bulb Options:
LF D26 ES-9: 7W, 98 - 56 lumen in 38 minutes
LF D26 SR-9: 9W, 126 - 74 lumen in 25 minutes
LF D26 HO-9: 12W, 160 - 88 lumen in 20 minutes
SF P90: 9W, 118 - 70 lumen in 25 minutes
G&P G90: 9W, 118 - 70 lumen in 25 minutes
G&P D26 7.4V "DX 10W xenon": 9W, 118 - 70 lumen in 25 minutes
G&P D26 7.4V "DX 15W xenon": 10.5W, 136 - 80 lumen in 23 minutes
Pathfinder P90: 10W, 129 - 75 lumen in 23 minutes
WE D26 9V: 10W, 136 - 80 lumen in 23 minutes
Pila GL3 LA: 10W, 136 - 80 lumen in 23 minutes

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It looks like you could go with a Lumens Factory H0-9 for 12 watts. That should be impressive. I'd want a glass lens with that, but you could get by with short bursts I guess with the plastic lens. mdocod rates the LF E0-9 in a 2x17500 (G3 or other 3 cell light) at 15 watts and I find that an impressive step up from my SureFire G3L or Fenix P1D CE Q5. mdocod rates the P90 lamp in a 2x17500 light at 9 watts. I find that to be brighter than the G3L or P1D CE Q5, just not impressively so.

I was going to mention something like that on your other thread. I'd recommend rechargeables to someone using an incan anyway so you won't be thinking about how fast you are going through batteries.

I can understand wanting to keep the incan. Using the LF H0-9 lamp with the RCR123's in your G2 may require multiple clicks to light. That can be kind of annoying. I'm sure someone has done this. I'll do some research on that setup. Maybe someone with experience can comment.

Lighthound sells the AW protected RCR123's for $6.99 each, a DSD charger for $12.99, and the Lumens Factory H0-9 for $14.99.

I didn't mention on the other thread, but if you do get a G3, mdocod does not recommend the P91 bulb with 2x17500 rechargeables. The brightest bulb he recommends for that setup is the Lumens Factory E0-9.


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## slagell (Jan 16, 2008)

I'm really trying to do something with the G2 I have, so 3 cell's aren't an option now since I am not going to buy another flashlight at this time. Thus, I just need to find a really nice lamp upgrade < $35 w/ shipping. Also, I want to make sure I don't melt the Nitrolen bezel.

In the future I may get a 9 or 12 v incan


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## Germ (Jan 16, 2008)

More info from mdocod's thread:

"Your P60 is a ~5V lamp that draws ~1.2Amp. it's about 6 Watts of light. The HO-9 is ~7.2V on fresh RCR123s at about 1.55Amp, or about 11Watts...it's about twice as bright. By comparison, a P61 is about 4.5V in operation by about 2.5Amps, which is also about 11W..."

So it would seem going to RCR123's and an H09 would get you nothing over just getting a P61.

Have you tried a P61 before? I thought you had from your other thread.


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## nzgunnie (Jan 16, 2008)

Germ said:


> More info from mdocod's thread:
> 
> "Your P60 is a ~5V lamp that draws ~1.2Amp. it's about 6 Watts of light. The HO-9 is ~7.2V on fresh RCR123s at about 1.55Amp, or about 11Watts...it's about twice as bright. By comparison, a P61 is about 4.5V in operation by about 2.5Amps, which is also about 11W..."
> 
> So it would seem going to RCR123's and an H09 would get you nothing over just getting a P61.


 
Except you run the HO-9 on two RCR123s, which are of course rechargeable.

You run the P61 on 2xCR123s, which you throw away after 20 minutes tops.

So yes, you could say you are gaining quite a lot of $$.


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## mdocod (Jan 16, 2008)

yea the only thing you really gain with the RCR123>HO-9 is that you get a tighter beam profile (better throw) and rechargability, output is basically in the same ballpark.


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## Germ (Jan 16, 2008)

nzgunnie said:


> Except you run the HO-9 on two RCR123s, which are of course rechargeable.
> 
> You run the P61 on 2xCR123s, which you throw away after 20 minutes tops.
> 
> So yes, you could say you are gaining quite a lot of $$.


 
Very true. I was speaking strictly from a brightness standpoint. Plus the P61 is $25 versus $15 for the HO-9.

Hey mdocod! I hope I'm quoting you and making correct comments.


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## ugrey (Jan 16, 2008)

Slagell, Buy a P61 or Lumens Factorys brightest P60 sized lamp. You WILL like it. I dont think either one will throw farther than a P60, because they use the same reflector, but you will have a MUCH larger, brighter hotspot, and more of a wall of spill light. You will have about 20 minutes of light, which is longer than it sounds like. A year or two from now you can chalk all this up to your learning curve. This is half the fun of being a flashaholic. You will have "been there and done that" with a P61 and you can give advice on this board to the newbies. Have fun!


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## slagell (Jan 16, 2008)

ugrey said:


> Slagell, Buy a P61 or Lumens Factorys brightest P60 sized lamp. You WILL like it. I dont think either one will throw farther than a P60, because they use the same reflector, but you will have a MUCH larger, brighter hotspot, and more of a wall of spill light. You will have about 20 minutes of light, which is longer than it sounds like. A year or two from now you can chalk all this up to your learning curve. This is half the fun of being a flashaholic. You will have "been there and done that" with a P61 and you can give advice on this board to the newbies. Have fun!



I was thinking I could alternatively modify my 2D mag-led. I hate how blue and dim the mag 2D LED is. I have rechargeable NiMh AA's. I could use a 3AA->D converter, a glass lens, and a high output lamp, right? How much would that mod cost? 

Are the Lumen's Factory one's brighter than a P61?


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## ugrey (Jan 16, 2008)

Slagell, I dont play with rechargeables or custom flashlights. Some knowlegeable flashaholic should be along shortly to answer your questions.


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## slagell (Jan 17, 2008)

ugrey said:


> Slagell, Buy a P61 or Lumens Factorys brightest P60 sized lamp. You WILL like it. I dont think either one will throw farther than a P60, because they use the same reflector, but you will have a MUCH larger, brighter hotspot, and more of a wall of spill light. You will have about 20 minutes of light, which is longer than it sounds like. A year or two from now you can chalk all this up to your learning curve. This is half the fun of being a flashaholic. You will have "been there and done that" with a P61 and you can give advice on this board to the newbies. Have fun!



I ordered the EO-6. SHould get here next week. Only $21 (shipping included).


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## Comandospf (Sep 7, 2009)

Can I use the EO-09 with two AW IMR or only the HO-09?


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## nzgunnie (Sep 7, 2009)

Comandospf said:


> Can I use the EO-09 with two AW IMR or only the HO-09?



yes, you can use both with IMR cells, but only the HO-9 with RCR123s.


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## hyperloop (Sep 8, 2009)

This is a great thread! Thanks for all the great information guys.

I live in Singapore where primary CR123s are really expensive (SGD$7.50 *each*) so i use protected 3.6v RCR123s and finding out that the HO-9 works with RCR123s was a great find, ordered one from Lumens Factory immediately after reading this thread.

Thanks a lot guys, i can now relegate the other incand drop ins i got from DX to my other cheapo P60 hosts and use them as loaner lights, i dont worry about them not being returned as no one i know will spend that kind of money on primary CR123s and they have no chargers for the RCRs


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 9, 2009)

nzgunnie said:


> Except you run the HO-9 on two RCR123s, which are of course rechargeable.
> 
> You run the P61 on 2xCR123s, which you throw away after 20 minutes tops.
> 
> So yes, you could say you are gaining quite a lot of $$.


You are gaining a lot more throw with the HO-9 than with the P61 as well.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 9, 2009)

Comandospf said:


> Can I use the EO-09 with two AW IMR or only the HO-09?


Yes, you can use both and even the P91 on those cells.


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## mdocod (Sep 9, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Yes, you can use both and even the P91 on those cells.



Or a WA1111


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## NE450No2 (Sep 9, 2009)

ugrey said:


> Slagell, Buy a P61 or Lumens Factorys brightest P60 sized lamp. You WILL like it. I dont think either one will throw farther than a P60, because they use the same reflector, but you will have a MUCH larger, brighter hotspot, and more of a wall of spill light. You will have about 20 minutes of light, which is longer than it sounds like. A year or two from now you can chalk all this up to your learning curve. This is half the fun of being a flashaholic. You will have "been there and done that" with a P61 and you can give advice on this board to the newbies. Have fun!


 
I agree with your assessment of the P60 vs the P61.

For general use I do not see the advantage of the P61 over the 60 as its run time is severely reduced.

However the light I keep next to my pillow at night is a M2 with a P61, as I feel it will have more effect on an intruder.

In comparing the Sure Fires outside, starting with the P60, P61, going to the M3, with the MN10 or MN11, I really do not see a very large difference, unless you have a Turbo head on the M3. The TurboM3 is a step up... 

BUT.

I start to see a BIG difference in the M4 with the MN15 and MN16...

And then there is the M6.:devil: 
I use mine mostly with the MN20 but I am going to try it with a MN15 soon as I can get one. 

The MN 21 is BRIGHT, bught I usually need a handheld light to glow longer than 20 minutes at a time.

I guess what I am saying is for the size the 6P is hard to beat, and if you need MORE light, then go directly to the M4 or the M6.

I do not have a P90 series to compare with.


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## Mundele (Sep 9, 2009)

Will the Cree drop-ins work ok with the older all plastic g2 or will the non-metallic head cause my drop in to get cooked?


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## hyperloop (Sep 9, 2009)

i own a SF G2 all nitrolon model, have used many P60 drop ins without any issues, specifically the DX 1 mode R2 drop in, ran it for half an hour easily.

Also, i think your question would be better posted in the LED section.

Now to move back *on* topic, i ordered the HO-9 from LF for my stock G2 running on 3.6v RCR123s as i read here that this configuration could work, would it be better if i used AW's IMR123s instead? what would the improvements be as compared to using normal RCR123s?

Apologies if its a silly question, i'm a total tech/electrical noob, entire education was in the arts and humanities, zero science subjects taken


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 10, 2009)

hyperloop said:


> i own a SF G2 all nitrolon model, have used many P60 drop ins without any issues, specifically the DX 1 mode R2 drop in, ran it for half an hour easily.
> 
> Also, i think your question would be better posted in the LED section.
> 
> ...


With 2x 16340 IMRs, in adition to the HO-9 you may also run the EO-9, the P91 and even the WA1111 with the Fivemega bi-pin socket.

Bear in mind that unlike the 6P, G3, C2, 9P or C3, your G2 has_ Lexan_ (polycarbonate) lenses instead or _Borofloat_ or _Pyrex_ glass. So it will probably meltdown if you run those extreme high-output lamp assemblies for more than a few minutes, the HO-9 is the maximum you shoud put in the G2. One solution to overcome this issue is getting a new metal bezel with glass lenses for your G2, this is a pretty easy and cheap solution. The standard SF metal bezel with Borofloat lenses is called Z44, but you can buy any compatible 3rd party bezel you can find. Solarforce and others make quite a few of them, you can buy them from Lighthound -->> 

http://www.lighthound.com/Lighthoun...ther-lights--Stainless-Steel-Bezel_p_986.html

http://www.lighthound.com/Lighthoun...Head-for-SureFire-and-other-lights_p_985.html

http://www.lighthound.com/GampP-Tactical-Head-for-SureFire_p_507.html

http://www.lighthound.com/Solarforc...ated-bezel--Black-Type-2-Anodized_p_1628.html

http://www.lighthound.com/Solarforc...--No-Teeth--Black-Type-2-Anodized_p_2631.html


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## hyperloop (Sep 10, 2009)

darn it, my wallet hates you!! 

lots of nice choices there, thanks.

*EDIT*: after looking through those choice a bit closer, they don't seem to mention the G2 specifically, are you sure they'll fit?


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## mdocod (Sep 10, 2009)

Hello Hyperloop,

Lithium Cobalt should not be discharged continuously faster than ~2C. In short bursts and with frequent top-ups, many CPFers use configurations that extend up around 3C but it wears out cells quickly.

The HO-9 is basically a 3C load for most RCR123 size cells. IMR cells are generally rated for anywhere from 5-10C maximum continuous discharge rates, and since they are a safer chemistry, you can push them and not fear explosion. Also, they will hold higher voltage through the discharge due to their lower internal resistance combined with the lack of a PCB, which adds resistance of it's own. 

-Eric


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## hyperloop (Sep 10, 2009)

mdocod said:


> Hello Hyperloop,
> 
> Lithium Cobalt should not be discharged continuously faster than ~2C. In short bursts and with frequent top-ups, many CPFers use configurations that extend up around 3C but it wears out cells quickly.
> 
> ...



Hi Eric,

thanks for the tips, i am assuming that Lithium Cobalt = AW's IMR cells?


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## mdocod (Sep 10, 2009)

hyperloop said:


> Hi Eric,
> 
> thanks for the tips, i am assuming that Lithium Cobalt = AW's IMR cells?




No NO NO :sick2:

Lithium Cobalt is what most "li-ion" cells are out there. The ones offered with protection circuits and such are pretty much all LiCo cells. 

IMR=Lithium Manganese.


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## hyperloop (Sep 10, 2009)

mdocod said:


> No NO NO :sick2:
> 
> Lithium Cobalt is what most "li-ion" cells are out there. The ones offered with protection circuits and such are pretty much all LiCo cells.
> 
> IMR=Lithium Manganese.



see what i mean when i said im quite hopeless at all this? without CPF i might have blown myself up by now haha, thanks for the input eric


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## hyperloop (Sep 24, 2009)

Well, i received my LF EO-9 yesterday, slipped it into the G2 and i love it, perfectly focused hotspot, so far no heat issues but i havent run it for long. Using it with 2x protected Trustfire RCR123s.

Question: would it be brighter using IMR 16340s?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 24, 2009)

hyperloop said:


> Well, i received my LF EO-9 yesterday, slipped it into the G2 and i love it, perfectly focused hotspot, so far no heat issues but i havent run it for long. Using it with 2x protected Trustfire RCR123s.
> 
> Question: would it be brighter using IMR 16340s?


Yes! But your G2 has Lexan lens...


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## mdocod (Sep 24, 2009)

hyperloop,

The EO-9 is a 2A load, which translates to about a 4-6C discharge rate for RCR123s. This will kill the cells in a few dozen cycles or less, and increase the likelihood of fire or explosion. Get IMR16340s or a lower powered lamp if at all possible. 

-Eric


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## hyperloop (Sep 24, 2009)

mdocod said:


> hyperloop,
> 
> The EO-9 is a 2A load, which translates to about a 4-6C discharge rate for RCR123s. This will kill the cells in a few dozen cycles or less, and increase the likelihood of fire or explosion. Get IMR16340s or a lower powered lamp if at all possible.
> 
> -Eric



thanks for the tip, if i recall correctly, IMR16340s arent protected right? are there any protected options for cells that i can use? will switch the host to a solarforce L2 that i just got too.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 24, 2009)

hyperloop said:


> thanks for the tip, if i recall correctly, IMR16340s arent protected right? are there any protected options for cells that i can use? will switch the host to a solarforce L2 that i just got too.


There is no other option-- unless you get a new host to use bigger cells. Is there any rational reason to avoid IMRs? They are unprotected because they don't need to be protected, LiMn is 100% safe chemistry.


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## Howecollc (Sep 27, 2009)

He may be concerned that without being protected, he might run the IMRs down so far as to damage the cells. Just watch for the sun to turn orange, then stop immediately. It's a fine line you have to walk to get that kind of current from such a small package.

I have a Lumens Factory IMR-9 lamp in a G2 running AW IMR123s. When you know you have 10 minutes of runtime to play with, you tend to use it sparingly; as in bursts. Because of this, the Lexan window on mine has not shown any signs of heat damage. I’ve probably never had it on for more than 3 minutes straight at a time.


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## hyperloop (Oct 5, 2009)

apologies, my lamp assembly is the Lumens Factory HO-9 *not* the EO-9.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 5, 2009)

hyperloop said:


> apologies, my lamp assembly is the Lumens Factory HO-9 *not* the EO-9.


That's not safe for RCR123 Li-Ions either. The P90 or the SR-9 is the limit for those cells.


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## ampdude (Oct 6, 2009)

My two favorite non-E series combos are my Surefire G2-OD with two IMR16340's and a Surefire P90 lamp assembly for general use, and a Lumens Factory EO-9 (unfrosted) with two IMR16340's in my Surefire Laser Products C2 as a tactical light.


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## hyperloop (Oct 7, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> That's not safe for RCR123 Li-Ions either. The P90 or the SR-9 is the limit for those cells.



well, the label on the lamp assembly states either 3xCR123s or 2xRCR123 (3.7v)


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## Timothybil (Oct 7, 2009)

Sorry I'm late into the discussion here, but I got a LF HO-6 for my G2 and love it. It's a little brighter, has a LOT more throw but about the same flood, and has at least as much run time as the stock P60. I had already replaced my lens with a borofloat from Flashlightlens for other reasons, so have not had that problem. (Had it before with the stock P60 before I got the lockout tailcap. The way I sat in my favorite chair had a tendency to press on the tailcap while in my holster. Sometimes I would feel the heat and save the batteries [and lens], but at least once I didn't and thoroughly bubbled the Lexan lens. That's when I got the borofloat from Flashlightlens.)

Have fun with whatever you decide up.


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## Howecollc (Oct 12, 2009)

*from mdocod's data*

Cell configuration: 2xRCR123
Bulb Options:
LF D26 ES-9: 7W, 98 - 56 lumen in 38 minutes
LF D26 SR-9: 9W, 126 - 74 lumen in 25 minutes
*LF D26 HO-9: 12W, 160 - 88 lumen in 20 minutes*
SF P90: 9W, 118 - 70 lumen in 25 minutes
G&P G90: 9W, 118 - 70 lumen in 25 minutes
G&P D26 7.4V "DX 10W xenon": 9W, 118 - 70 lumen in 25 minutes
G&P D26 7.4V "DX 15W xenon": 10.5W, 136 - 80 lumen in 23 minutes
Pathfinder P90: 10W, 129 - 75 lumen in 23 minutes
WE D26 9V: 10W, 136 - 80 lumen in 23 minutes
Pila GL3 LA: 10W, 136 - 80 lumen in 23 minutes


*from Howecollc's calculator* 
-HO-9 specs from LF are listed as: 7.6V / 1.55A / 320 Lumens
-so when adjusted down to the real world 7.2 nominal volts, we get 1.5 amps of draw (2C)


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