# The RaidFire Spear. Beamshots, Runtime & more!



## StefanFS (Dec 29, 2007)

This review sample was provided to me free of charge, courtesy of EDGE TAC, for review purposes. I was approached by EDGE TAC who asked if I could do a review of their product, after some consideration I accepted. 
Some notes and caveats about my review. I made a selection of lights to compare the Spear with, it means I did choose those lights I perceive as it's main competiton (from the lights I happen to have). I also selected a few other lights to provide a broader scale on which I could try to show the Spear's capabilities. I'm just an ordinary person and I don't own every conceivable new throw light on the market, but I do have a fair selection of high performance led throwers. I think these will provide enough information. So please don't ask me to compare the Spear to lights I don't own or have access to. If you want me to compare it to a light I don't own, feel free to send that light to me. The fact that my outdoor beamshots are taken with 8 second exposures is a meaningless fact, other cameras might provide similar exposures with shorter exposure times etc., it's more likely that the camera software play a bigger role concerning night shots. The most important point is this: It's very difficult to tell these powerful throwers apart when it comes to throw capability. They are within 10 000 Lux of each other in throw, the most powerful approach (or break) the 30 000 Lux barrier. To the naked eye it's difficult to see a difference between a light that throws 19 000 Lux or another that throws 25 000. The whole throw king debate is a bit pointless, all these lights (Spear, Tiablo A8/9, DBS & MRV) are high performance throwers and some are slightly more powerful. Other factors are more important to me than this weeks highest Lux count; good ergonomics, build quality, finish etc. All LiION cells used in this review come from AW.


Here it is in the box. A very good manual is included, two spare o-rings, one spare rubber boot for the clicky switch and a warranty card.









Different angles/sides of the Spear.


















Broken down in the main components. The head doesn't separate from the light engine part, it seems to be glued. The lanyard hole in the tailcap is chamfered.








The top end of the battery tube. Very good machining and finish. When screwed down tight the tube touches the driver in the head and the light is on high. A slight counter clockwise turn and contact is broken = low level. The top end threads are coated. Lower end threads are anodized to facilitate lockout by loosening the tailcap a bit. The tube is anodized on the inside surface.








The tailcap disassembled. The switch module is brass and seem to be of very high quality. It's not possible to disassemble more than this. The part of the spring touching the battery was rough on my sample and it scratched the 18650 cell. I took some very fine sanding sponge to it and now it's very smooth.








Other side of the clicky switch.








To access the lens and reflector screw out the lens retaining ring over the lens, then use the holes in the head to push out the reflector. A note on changing reflectors/disassemling the reflector from the head: It's important to make sure the lens retaining ring is screwed down all the way as it will affect throw and hotspot size if it isn't fully tightened. If you leave the retaining ring a tad 'untightened' the hotspot will be a bit bigger and throw decreases.













Looking down into the head at the driver and battery spring. Very good workmanship and fit/finish. On low level the driver emits a very very low high pitched tone, I have to hold the light to my ear to hear it.








The head disassembled. Lift/shake out the lens and remove the o-ring between the lens and reflector. The reflector can be lifted by using the holes in the head, push it upwards.







The reflector with the two o-rings for waterproofing.







Inner diameter is 36 mm and depth is 38 mm. Tiablo A9 has 36 mm deep reflectors and MRV 32 mm.












The massive 3 mm thick lens. Diameter of the lens, measured at ten points around the circumference, is between 40.05 mm to 40.14 mm at the widest point.







Looking down into the head at the brass light pill. It unscrews by using long tweezers/a pointed pair of scissors or pliers.







The heavy brass pill/light engine. This makes it easy to upgrade the Spear with new emitter pills or just modding the existing pill with new emitters and/or drivers. Diameter of the pill over the threads is 21.90 mm. As a comparison a D26 dropin pill is ~19.8 mm. So it's considerably larger than the standard D26 led drop in pills.

















Some pictures of detail work, very nice finish/fit and machining on this light.




















Here with it's smaller sibling, the Nitecore DI.








A size comparison with some common objects.








I have no problems operating the Spear with or without gloves. But I have big hands, size 12 in gloves. With smaller hands I think it would be harder with the flared tailcap.















*EDGE TAC's features and Spec's from the original sales thread.*

It can be found here: 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=171684

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*Features:*
Designed and tasked for Self-Defense and Law Enforcement use;
CREE Q5 WC high efficiency LED (Light Emitting Diode);
Maximum Output 250 lumens; about 22000Lux at 1M; 
Two *preset* brightness output levels, can be switched easily through rotating the light bezel;
Compact size and light weight, suitable for EDC (Every day carry);
Patented *ThermoflowTM* heat sinking design;
Excellent high-efficiency circuit;
Prominent runtime;
Tactical forward clicky switch;
Super light-gathering metal reflector;
Impact-resistant optical lens with *Dual-Coating*TM technique;
Made from rugged military grade aluminum alloy;
Mil-Spec Type III Hard Anodized finish in Black;
Impact Resistance to drop tests in accordance to US MIL-STD-810F;
Waterproof to IPX-8 standard;
Optional Accessories: Tactical Remote Tailcap Switch and Weapon Mount.


*Specification*

*Dimension:*
Bezel Diameter: 45mm
Body Diameter: 25.4mm
Tail Diameter 36mm
*Overall Length:* 158mm
*Weight:* 203 g (without battery) 
*Battery:* powered by one 2400mAH 18650 Li-ion battery;

*Output & Runtime*
Maximum Output 250 lumens, for about 110 minutes (with brightness declines to 50%)
Minimum Output 5 lumens, for about 200 hours (with brightness declines to 50%)

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*White wall beamshots.*

All shots at 0.5 meter. f/2.8, ISO 100, white balance on daylight/sunlight, 0 EV. Exposure time 1/80 sec for the bright shoths and 1/800 sec for the underexposed.

First the beam distribution on high level, 1/80 sec.








Beam distribution on low level, 1/80 sec.








*Spear and Tiablo A9 on RCR123.*













*Spear and Tiablo A9 on 18650 LiION.*













*Spear and MRV on RCR123.*













*Spear and MRV on 18650 LiION.*















*Outdoor beamshots at 50 and 95 metres.*

The lights used for the outdoor beamshots.












*Number one,* RaidFire Spear. CREE Q5 WC. Stock version. 24 600 Lux in throw at one metre on high. one AW 18650 LiION cell.
*Number two, *Tiablo A9 stock version CREE Q5 WC. 21 700 Lux in throw at one metre with two AW RCR123 LiION cells. 16 820 Lux in throw at one metre with one AW 18650 LiION cell.
*Number three, *MRV with CREE Q5 WG, stock driver. 19 350 Lux in throw at one metre with two AW RCR123 LiION cells. 14 720 Lux in throw at one metre with one AW 18650 LiION cell.
*Number four, *Tiablo A8 modded. CREE Q5 WG, FluPic at burst 1200 mA, UCL-type lens. 30 380 Lux in throw at one metre with one AW 18650 LiION cell.
*Number five, *3D M*g with SSC P4 USOXH and three mode driver with max at 1200 mA. UCL lens. 22 010 Lux in throw at one metre with NiMH cells.



*Reference shots of the first setting, 50 metres*




















A note about the beamshots. Cameras seem to favour the warmer WG tint CREE Q5 used in the MRV. It is weaker than both the Spear and the Tiablos on all cell configs. I judged it to be ill advised to use another white balance setting for the MRV as it would compromise the complete beamshot effort. Due to the severe weather with subzero rain and fog at the 200 metre site I had to scratch that for the time being. If time and weather permits I might do that later.



*First setting at 50 metres*

































































*Second setting at 95 metres*































































Due to the debate whether certain emitter tints works better than others in rain or fog etc. I'd like to point out that all beamshots in this review were shot in rain, pretty much rain even. As usual I didn't notice any differences in the ability to project light at distances ,or that one would be better than the others at colour rendering. Some of my lights have yellowish CREE WG emitters and others have blueish SSC P4 USXOH.



*Runtime on AW18650 2200 mAh LiION*

Excellent runtime on 18650 on high level. At 92 minutes the light starts to flicker when th low voltage warning cuts in. A few seconds after the flicker starts the light abruptly goes out. I haven't done any runtimes on low since that would be going on for at least a week if I'm to trust EDGE TAC's own figures. For this test starting voltage was 4.20 V and stop voltage was 2.9 V. Note that EDGE TAC used the Sanyo 2400 mAh cell for testing, using that cell might improve runtime somewhat.








*Runtime on low* 
It is 6 days and about 10 hours. I got about 160 hours on one AW 2200 mAh LiION cell. No graph for this one. It starts at ~420 Lux and after a day or so it continues for the duration at ~350 Lux in throw. 



*Other findings*

*Battery draw*
On high: 1.2 A.
On low: 20 mA.


*Output*
The Spear on one 18650 LiION cell outperform both the stock Tiablo A9 and the MRV on RCR123 cells, both on paper and in real usage. Spill area is smaller but considerably brighter.

Throw at one metre and spill in Lux. Throw/Spill

*RaidFire Spear*
High: 24 600/305
Low: 422/12


*For comparison*

_*Tiablo A9 stock version:* _
_21 700/210 (RCR123)_
_16 820/150 (18650 LiION)_

*MRV CREE Q5:*
_19 350/175 (RCR123)_
_14 270/115 (18650 LiION)_


*Weight with one AW 18650 LiION*

Spear 240 grams
Tiablo A9 197 grams
MRV 228 grams


*Reflector design*

The Spear has a deeper and slightly narrower reflector compared to Tiablo A8/A9 and the MRV. Inner diameter is 36 mm compared to the others that are 38 mm. Depth is 38 mm (as far as I can measure it) compared to the Tiablo's 36 mm and the MRV's 32 mm. This gives the Spear a narrower and brighter spill area as well as a tighter hotspot. Without having the Dereelight DBS and only going by beamshots by others, I would venture to say that the Spear resembles the DBS beam profile.




*Conclusion*

The Spear seems to be of exceptionally good quality. Machining is flawless and all moving parts operate smoothly. I had to lubricate o-rings and threads since they were dry. Finish on my sample is outstanding, no nicks or marks. No visible machining marks at all. I had my doubts about the appearance and design, but I find it quite appealing when actually using it. I'm unclear about the issue of heatsinking holes in the head, whether it actually helps heatsinking or not. The holes do add to the appearance of the light but they will attract dirt and dust over time. The tailcap could be a little less flared to accomodate people with smaller hands, for me the tailcap works well and it improves grip. The reflector and lens (which do have AR coating) are of very high quality and the lens retaining ring is easy to remove on my sample. Since the head and light engine are glued together (on my sample, I don't know if all are glued) it will make upgrading the emitter a little harder. Changing the pill is not difficult at all, all that is required is that the lens and reflector are removed. Hopefully EDGE TAC will offer upgrade 'pills' when newer emitters arrive.

Output is very good on high, up with the best throw lights available today. The Spear on one 18650 LiION outperform both the stock Tiablo A9 and the MRV on RCR123 cells! Output on low level is very very low, that insures that I have emergency lighting for a long time. On high the light actually exceeds the manufacturer claim of 22 000 Lux in throw with several thousand Lux! That's a first for me. On the other hand the runtime is not as long as claimed, 92 minutes versus the 110 minutes claimed by EDGE TAC. However, I used AW 2200 mAh cells for the runtime, EDGE TAC used Sanyo 2400 mAh cells for their runtime. That might be the reason for my slightly shorter runtime. 

Regulation on high level is very good, it's a virtual flat line for 90 minutes. About 90 minutes is about what can be expected from a light running an CREE Q5 at a level exceeding 1 A. The stock driver seem to be able to boost the voltage from a single 18650 LiION cell to ~4 Volt which maximises the output from an CREE Q5 driven at 1 A or higher. The only other flashlight I have seen that is capable of doing this is the Regalight WT1. This implies that the Spear has a boost driver specifically designed for 18650 LiION. MRV gen 2 and SE (not the new digital driver MRV, that I don't know anything about) and the Tiablos all have lower output on 18650 compared to CR123 or RCR123.

The Spear is a very solid flashlight, it's heavier than both the Tiablo A9 and the MRV but it's built more massively. This flashlight should be able to take a lot of abuse. Apart from the solid construction it has springs at both battery terminals, that should make it impervious to sudden impacts, and the 3 mm thick glass lens which is set deep in the bezel should be pretty tough to break. Heatsinking is very good, largely due to the solid construction and the massive brass light engine ' pill' for heat transfer to the body.

This is a very nice light that I'm not ashamed to recommend. If the styling happens to agree with you and you need a good bright light, get it. As always there is some room for improvement, a better lanyard attachment, less laser etching (Strong light!) and the flared tailcap (my opinion only, since it works). But that's minor things considering this is a high quality really powerful package.

Stefan


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## StefanFS (Dec 29, 2007)

Some additional beamshots. 
Very real world this time. How does these lights light up a rainy, pitch black, country road over a distance of 250 meters? It turns out that the difference isn't that dramatic. Like I said earlier, it's difficult to see a difference unless the output differ somewhere about 10 000 Lux. The MRV on RCR123 still gives the Tiablo and the Spear a fight for the prize, but doesn't have a chance on paper. In this scenario the Spear is the best performing light along with my extreme M*g 3D. BUT the difference in real world scenarios isn't really that big. Ergonomics, runtime, build quality and durability are more important with these lights. Shots are 8 second exposures, WB is daylight, f/2.8 and ISO 100. Shot with Canon G9 with Kenko Pro 1D UV filter to protect it against the rain.
















































Stefan


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## TodToh (Dec 29, 2007)

May be I'm the 1st person ..:laughing: 

wait to see your full review.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 29, 2007)

NICE! I think it looks good and I'm glad to see it works good!

I'm MIGHTY impressed with DX sku 7999 Romisen RC-F4. I know what you said about lights you don't have but I think this one would suprise you!


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## SCEMan (Dec 29, 2007)

Stefan:

Great preliminary review (as usual). 

I'm curious about your comment: 
"Cameras seem to favour the warmer WG tint CREE Q5 used in the MRV".
Wouldn't this also be true for the; Tiablo A8 modded. CREE Q5 WG?

Keep up the good work!


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## StefanFS (Dec 29, 2007)

SCEMan said:


> Stefan:
> 
> Great preliminary review (as usual).
> 
> ...


 
You are so right in theory, but it isn't. The emitter in the A8 is very much colder, it was sold to me as being WG but it resembles my WC emitters in tint. So I guess they are each at the extreme ends of the binning. I'm thinking about skipping the MRV in future beamshots.
Stefan


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## I came to the light... (Dec 29, 2007)

I read what you said about comparing to lights you don't have, but don't you own a DBS? I've seen earlier comparison reviews by you including it. Since this light's numbers beat the current competition (for unmodded only, of course), I think you should bring in the real king 

If you do add the DBS, please be sure to say exactly what pill you're using - so far for me the hardest thing to clarify on these forums is what Dereelight pill somebody's talking about :ironic:

Great review, I'm keeping track of it for the updates!


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## kiwiman3139 (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Stefan,
Thanks for the review-you do your reviews in an easy to follow and everyday use style which is so much more useful to me. The light looks good and i think the holes in the head give it some individual flair and allow it to stand out from the bunch which seems to be getting larger. Most of the other throwers are very uniform in design and style.
Regards Stewart


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## ledaholic (Dec 29, 2007)

About the runtime, Raidfire used a 2400mAH battery, you used a 2200mAH battery, maybe the difference in your runtime vs theirs? Other than that, very nice review and beamshots.


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## RdlyLite (Dec 29, 2007)

I have to agree with Stefan's preliminary subjective opinions about the light. I have been 'playing' with it for a few days but I have one fairly important gripe about it. The tint on mine is uh...blue. Is this normal for these particular binned crees driven at these levels? This is my first 200+lumen cree so I am not sure if its just normal...


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## selfbuilt (Dec 29, 2007)

:twothumbs as always Stefan. :bow:

I have also received my RaidFire from EDGETAC, but it will take me a few days to pull together my preliminary review, due to the holidays.

But this will certainly be a tough act to follow ... :thumbsup:


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## StefanFS (Dec 30, 2007)

I came to the light... said:


> I read what you said about comparing to lights you don't have, but don't you own a DBS? I've seen earlier comparison reviews by you including it. Since this light's numbers beat the current competition (for unmodded only, of course), I think you should bring in the real king
> 
> If you do add the DBS, please be sure to say exactly what pill you're using - so far for me the hardest thing to clarify on these forums is what Dereelight pill somebody's talking about :ironic:
> 
> Great review, I'm keeping track of it for the updates!


 
Thank you. Sorry, but you are mistaken, I don't own a DBS and never have. I simply can't afford one right now. With a bit of bad luck it could cost a fair bit over $200. This time I let the modded Tiablo A8 take the non existent DBS place since it performs like a DBS when it comes to throw.
---------------------------------



ledaholic said:


> About the runtime, Raidfire used a 2400mAH battery, you used a 2200mAH battery, maybe the difference in your runtime vs theirs? Other than that, very nice review and beamshots.


 
You are probably right about this, I put a note in the text about this. AW seem to be very conservative when it comes to rating his cells, so often one AW 2200 mAh will be equivalent to other brands 2400 mAh cells. I have never used Sanyo 18650, maybe they are an exception and really deliver 2400 mAh or thereabouts.
----------------------------------



RdlyLite said:


> I have to agree with Stefan's preliminary subjective opinions about the light. I have been 'playing' with it for a few days but I have one fairly important gripe about it. The tint on mine is uh...blue. Is this normal for these particular binned crees driven at these levels? This is my first 200+lumen cree so I am not sure if its just normal...


 
It shouldn't be blue at all, it should be very white but not blue. What are you comparing it to? Too bad if you got one with an defective emitter.
-----------------------------------



selfbuilt said:


> :twothumbs as always Stefan. :bow:
> 
> I have also received my RaidFire from EDGETAC, but it will take me a few days to pull together my preliminary review, due to the holidays.
> 
> But this will certainly be a tough act to follow ... :thumbsup:


 
Thank you.
I was particularly dissatisfied with the beamshots (as always) as I feel they don't do the brighter lights justice. Then again it is very hard to differentiate between lights that all throw over or about 20 000 Lux when the difference is relatively small. I'm also doubting the point of doing beamshots with lights running 2xRCR123 like the MRV & Tiablo A9 this time. RCR123 have little energy in them which leads to short runtimes, and it's probably not very wise to run multiple LiION cells in a light. I wan't to keep my fingers. Running the Spear against two of the top throwers on RCR123 do however make a point about how it performs. The Spear do hold it's ground against both of them.

Stefan


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## nanotech17 (Dec 30, 2007)

nice outdoor shots Stefan,
must be a little difficult with the cold weather :thumbsup:


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## chibato (Dec 30, 2007)

:thumbsup: Awesome, thanks Stefan. Outdoor beamshots are very helpful.


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## sledhead (Dec 30, 2007)

Outstanding review. Beautiful beamshots. Mine is coming in the second batch, better order my AW's now. Thanks for taking the time to do the review!


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## thermal guy (Dec 30, 2007)

You know some day i hope to be able to take beem shots like this! nice job 
Stefan!


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## WadeF (Dec 30, 2007)

I think any of us with multiple throwers (Raidfire, DBS, Tiablo, MRV) should try taking some LUX readings at around 3 meters. It seems there is more difference in the size of the hot spot at this distance, and the results maybe more telling. I will be taking LUX readings of my Raidfire and DBS. 

If all these lights produce a hot spot that is smaller than the LUX meter's sensor at 1 meter, the results maybe misleading. At 3 meters the hot spots should be larger than the sensor and there maybe more of a difference between readings.

Thers is a big difference in the size of the the hot spot between my DBS and Raidfire at say 30 feet. The DBS maintains a smaller and tighter hot spot, and a higher LUX reading than the Raidfire at 30 feet. At 1 meter the LUX readings are almost the same.


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## RdlyLite (Dec 30, 2007)

StefanFS said:


> It shouldn't be blue at all, it should be very white but not blue. What are you comparing it to? Too bad if you got one with an defective emitter.


 
Hey Stefan, I only have two other cree based lights to compare to and those would be the Lumpower M1-t and the Dmini. I will add that when I showed the light output to some of my family members, aside from the phenominal output :naughty: , the second thing they noticed was the tint. I actually didn't notice right away as my eyesight is not that great. But then I went to compare it to my Luma's and well, yeah, they were right. The difference is obvious. :thumbsdow

I guess this light can definently be considered for an exchange? 

***Anyone else have this bad tint on their RaidFire Spear??** *


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## AFAustin (Dec 30, 2007)

Thank you, Stefan, for your excellent work on this. I'm looking forward to my RaidFire (2nd batch), and hoping the flared tailcap makes it a bit more stable in my back pocket (Tiablo was top heavy and slid around too much).

Hope both your thumb and the weather improve soon!


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## StefanFS (Dec 30, 2007)

AFAustin said:


> Thank you, Stefan, for your excellent work on this. I'm looking forward to my RaidFire (2nd batch), and hoping the flared tailcap makes it a bit more stable in my back pocket (Tiablo was top heavy and slid around too much).
> 
> Hope both your thumb and the weather improve soon!


 
Thanks,

The Spear is pretty balanced, and it's heavier. I don't get an impression of it being top heavy when using it. I'm sure you will like it.
I did the outdoor shots standing with the camera equipent under a large dark garden umbrella to avoid the rain, wish I had all weather cameras. The weather is very strange this year but I regard every day without snow as a bonus! 

Stefan


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## moses (Dec 30, 2007)

Stefan,

EXCELLENT work as usual. 

The only question I have is that your lux readings compared to others seem to indicate that you have a particularly bright unit. 

I'm waiting for mine to show up in Feb and will put it on the meter too to compare. Very much looking forward to this light. 

Thanks for a great review!
Moses


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## WadeF (Dec 30, 2007)

moses said:


> The only question I have is that your lux readings compared to others seem to indicate that you have a particularly bright unit.


 
That's because all our LUX meters vary quite a bit. I have two LUX meters, one might read 2,000 LUX, the other 4,000LUX, with the same light.

I get around 25,000lux from the Raidfire on my lux meter at 1M, which means my meter reads close to Stefan's, but some other meters around here may a bit lower and higher.


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## Rzr800 (Dec 30, 2007)

StefanFS said:


> "...Since the head and light engine are glued together (on my sample, I don't know if all are glued) it will make upgrading the emitter a little harder...Stefan


 
Thanks for all the great info and good work, Stefan.
A question from the newbie...has anyone ever offered upgrades for a head and light engine that were glued together before or would this be a first if Edgetac went this route? (Obviously) I really like the looks of this light and would hope that either Edgetac or somebody else came up with a way to mod it over time.


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## picard (Dec 31, 2007)

Is it made in russia?

Is there any problem shipping to Canada?


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## [email protected] (Dec 31, 2007)

picard said:


> where did you guys buy rapid fire? Is it made in russia?



OK, where have you been hiding?:thinking: :shrug: 

Try here or several threads on CPF...


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## NoFair (Dec 31, 2007)

Great review Stefan:twothumbs

Looking forward to getting home and picking mine up

Sverre


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## StefanFS (Dec 31, 2007)

NoFair said:


> Great review Stefan:twothumbs
> 
> Looking forward to getting home and picking mine up
> 
> Sverre


 
Thanks,
I'm sure you'll like it. With a UI like the NiteCore DI and a possibility to use 2xCR123 it would be even better. 
One thing I didn't mention in the review (I think?) is that the hotspot focus is sensitive when swapping reflectors, if one doesn't tighten the lens retaining ring down all the way the hotspot will be bigger, and it will throw a bit less. I guess it's an unforseen way to widen the hotspot!
Stefan


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## I came to the light... (Dec 31, 2007)

You said the A8 moded was similar to the DBS... could you post the moded A8's lux? 

I don't know where I saw the DBS by you, my mistake.


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## Patriot (Dec 31, 2007)

Thanks for another great review Stefan.

I must say that I'm always amazed at the MRV Q5 w/RCR123s.


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## moses (Jan 1, 2008)

Stefan,

I've been quite curious about the 'diamond' coated lens. I wonder if you can do an abrasion test of some kind in comparison with other lenses. Curious about that coated lens. 

The ONLY thing I can think of that i'd really like to see in that light is the ability to use regular 123 cells in emergencies rather than limited to li-ion cell. This however is not a criticism as the manufacturer stated the design intent upfront. 

Mo


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## StefanFS (Jan 2, 2008)

moses said:


> Stefan,
> 
> I've been quite curious about the 'diamond' coated lens. I wonder if you can do an abrasion test of some kind in comparison with other lenses. Curious about that coated lens.
> 
> ...


 
I'll try to do that when my injured thumb is functional again. Right now I'm a bit handicapped when it comes to precision work. It needs a few days more to heal.

I agree on the cell issue, it would be nice to be able to use primary cells in an emergency etc. Since I consider strobe a useful feature, I wish that future versions of the Spear have the UI from the NiteCore DI with the 'hidden' strobe mode in addition to the capability to use primary cells. Other than that the light is exactly as described in the original sales thread (- the red painted reflector).
Stefan


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## nutz_about_lights (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice review of a great light Stephen! You always get me hooked onto new lights. :sigh:.. I like your gloves too!


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## whc (Jan 2, 2008)

Just got mine today, and it is indeed VERY nice.

The head on mine came apart pretty easy, and makes it much easier for changing the reflector. Though the light engine was loose on mine, so had to tighten it else the low mode would not work proper. Dit also some small mods with the light engine:

1. I put a o-ring between the engine and head, this helps keeping the light engine in place. 
2. I removed the stock paper thin isolator, which prevents the reflector from short-circuit the LED, and replaced it with some thicker plastic isolator (the ones from kaidomain).
3. Since there is nothing preventing the reflector from putting allot of force on the LED, I used an o-ring size 3/4"x1" to prevent the reflector from tightening to hard down on the LED (keeps a small distance from the LED).

These small mods makes it perfect IMO, the only thing now is the forward clicky, sometimes it flickers, and I notice some difference in output from half press to full press.

Anyway overall I am impressed with the build quality of this flashlight, well worth the $80 I paid, though would wish I had saved the $15 for EMS shipping, turned out to be a complete waste of money.

BTW: Thanks for this wonderful review StefanFS ....​


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## frosty (Jan 2, 2008)

nutz_about_lights said:


> Very nice review of a great light Stephen! You always get me hooked onto new lights. :sigh:.. I like your gloves too!


 
+1 on that. Great pictures and very detailed review.:twothumbs


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## StefanFS (Jan 2, 2008)

whc said:


> The head on mine came apart pretty easy, and makes it much easier for changing the reflector. Though the light engine was loose on mine, so had to tighten it else the low mode would not work proper. ....​
> .... These small mods makes it perfect IMO, the only thing now is the forward clicky, sometimes it flickers, and I notice some difference in output from half press to full press.​


 
That's very strange. I can't take the head apart even with force, I'll try again in my vise tonight. I suspect the head is glued to the part that holds the light engine to avoid pressing down too hard on the emitter. My switch works perfectly so far. But I have seen that one other member have had problems with the switch (and solved it with contact fluid, ProGold I think).
Stefan

......................................
Edit!

I have updated post #1 with pics of the disassembled head and emitter pill. I finally found a way to do it without using my injured right thumb. It turns out that the Spear is easy to upgrade after all. Just remove lens + o-ring + reflector and screw the pill out.







Stefan


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## mandrake (Jan 2, 2008)

My question is, how can we tell which side of the lens glass is diamond coated. After playing with the light and swapping the reflectors back and forth a few times, I noticed that I had finger prints on the glass. I cleaned it up with some lens cleaning solution and a lens cloth. When I got done I realized that I had lost track of which side of the glass should face out. Hmmmm. So, has anyone been able to tell which side is which by just looking at it?

Another thing I was thinking about. As the fresh 18500 has about 4.2 Volts and two 123 primaries only generate 6 volts in series. The percentage of over voltage by using the 123 cells in the Spear would not be as great as using a 3.7 Lithium cell in a L0D rated for 1.5 V nominal. I wonder if, in an emergency, the light could take it. I am not sure if I want to be the first to try with my brand new light... but I wonder!

Phil


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## Rzr800 (Jan 2, 2008)

_Stefan wrote:_
_".. It turns out that the Spear is easy to upgrade after all. Just remove lens + o-ring + reflector and screw out the pill..."_

Thanks, good work and excellent news.
Now a question from the newb:
Are these pills (dimension and threadwise) somewhat proprietary in nature and are we stuck waiting for Raidfire to get back to us as to whether the Spear is truly a moddable flashlight (and legitimate Derelight competitor) or not?


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## Rzr800 (Jan 2, 2008)

mandrake said:


> My question is, how can we tell which side of the lens glass is diamond coated...Phil


 
Wondered about that myself and thanks for asking.


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## StefanFS (Jan 2, 2008)

Rzr800 said:


> _Stefan wrote:_
> _".. It turns out that the Spear is easy to upgrade after all. Just remove lens + o-ring + reflector and screw out the pill..."_
> 
> Thanks, good work and excellent news.
> ...


 
I'm at work right now, don't have any calipers etc. I'll measure it when I get home tonight.

The side with AR coating have a slight blueish hue when I slant it and look at reflexes from a light etc. The outer surface don't have the AR coating so no 'blue' reflexes there.
Stefan


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## whc (Jan 2, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> That's very strange. I can't take the head apart even with force, I'll try again in my vise tonight. I suspect the head is glued to the part that holds the light engine to avoid pressing down too hard on the emitter. My switch works perfectly so far. But I have seen that one other member have had problems with the switch (and solved it with contact fluid, ProGold I think).
> Stefan
> 
> Stefan



I think you are right about the reason for gluing the head, though would personally prefer to be able to take it apart for easy upgrading, so am quite happy that my head came apart so easy . Also would prefer if they would have used some other way to get some distance between the led and reflector, since a glued head most likely will come apart some day, and could cause some problems for the user. The bottom of the reflector should have been designed with a “groove” around the edges, so it would put the force on the module rather than the LED if tightened all the way.

Anyway here is some images of my Spear:

































The o-ring makes the distance between the reflector and LED just perfect, and I can tighten it really hard and still grip the whole head to go into low/high mode, without the head getting loose .

EDIT: I used some contact spray on the clicky, and now it seems to work fine...


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## cd-card-biz (Jan 2, 2008)

Great review and beamshots, StefanFS!

I just want to caution RaidFire owners:

Last evening I had the head off to clean and lube the threads. I gently placed a finger on the inside of the head and "snap" - the spring on the LE broke its solder joints and fell out. The spring on mine was soldered in two small places and broke off easily.

I was able to re-solder it without needing to disassemble the head, but it was not very easy.

Don't know if this would be considered a weak-point in the light design, but I think it is worth noting.

Thanks again for the review of this fine light!


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## StefanFS (Jan 2, 2008)

The diameter of the pill over the threads: 21.90 mm. Threads seem to be identical to those on my D26 pills from various dropins. The Spears pill is bigger than a standard D26 dropin pill which is ~19.8 mm.
Stefan


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## moses (Jan 2, 2008)

Couple of questions in case anyone knows

Is the 2 stage driven digitally in the pill, or from the tail switch?

Is it current regulated or voltage? Meaning - if the pill is changed to some future lower Vf, would the current still be same or would it go up?

Thanks,
Mo


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## Rzr800 (Jan 2, 2008)

cd-card-biz said:


> Don't know if this would be considered a weak-point in the light design, but I think it is worth noting.
> 
> Thanks again for the review of this fine light!


 
Thanks for the heads up; these are the kind of things we all hope to hear before we do it ourselves.


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## Rzr800 (Jan 2, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> The diameter of the pill over the threads: 21.90 mm. Threads seem to be identical to those on my D26 pills from various dropins. The Spears pill is bigger than a standard D26 dropin pill which is ~19.8 mm.
> Stefan


 
Thanks, Stefan...I think. 

What I mean by this is that when I read both what both you and moses have to say (above) about these pills...I wonder if I'm indeed due for a 'smart' pill myself before even asking the question :thinking: 

I really have and do learn a lot from you guys and gals...yet I feel lot more comfortable _asking_ from miles away than I would any of you witnessing the look on my face when I attempt to 'cipher' the answer...


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## StefanFS (Jan 3, 2008)

moses said:


> Couple of questions in case anyone knows
> 
> Is the 2 stage driven digitally in the pill, or from the tail switch?
> 
> ...


 
The low/high level is done in the driver. I tried to explain my thinking in the review, when on high level the the battery tube ridge touches the outer ring on the driver (there is also a third wire from the driver going up through the pill to ground so the outer ring on the driver is isolated from the brass pill it sits in). When on low this contact is broken and it's a typical connection from the threads. It's the same switching mechanism as seen on the NiteCore DI. Very slick. I think the driver is a voltage regulator (boost) since it drives the CREE so brilliantly. Possibly current regulated too, unless it relies on the LiION cell for this. I believe it's both, I wont verify this by taking it apart though. Regarding the lens, the force it takes me to scratch an old Tiablo A9 lens doesn't affect the Spear lens at all, when using a small hardened electronics screwdriver bit.

Stefan


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## StefanFS (Jan 3, 2008)

Rzr800 said:


> What I mean by this is that when I read both what both you and moses have to say (above) about these pills...I wonder if I'm indeed due for a 'smart' pill myself before even asking the question :thinking:


 
Had it been compatible with standard drop in modules that are widely available it would have been very simple to just buy something like this for example, http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6090, and just file it a bit and pop it in. 
Stefan


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## whc (Jan 4, 2008)

I was not completely happy with the beam quality with the optional OP reflector that I purchased with the flashlight, so thought about experiencing with distance to the LED, to see if I could get arid of the awful ring, and WOW what an awesome result.

I used 1x3/4"x15/16" and 1x3/4"x1" o-ring (the first one almost fits in the grove of the LED module perfect, and the other bigger in top of that), now with the head tighten together very hard, the distance between the LED and reflector gives it an almost completely ring less beam, just perfect all round beam pattern (not a throw monster now, anyway not really what OP reflector is good for).

The overall output is still the same, just the hot spot is bigger now, and have never seen any Cree based flashlight with an bountiful beam like this, almost looks like a Seoul . Though you cannot do this if your flashlight’s head is glued together .

Here are some images and beamshots:

















1m high




1m low, 2-stops underexposed




Left: Spear 1x18650 on high, Right: WF-500L SSC P4 2x18650




Left: Spear 1x18650 on high, Right: WF-500L SSC P4 2x18650, 2-stops underexposed


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## Rzr800 (Jan 4, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> Had it been compatible with standard drop in modules that are widely available it would have been very simple to just buy something like this for example, http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6090, and just file it a bit and pop it in.
> Stefan


 
Once it was determined that the light was indeed moddable; the above is what I was looking for absent any word from Raidfire as to the availibility of their own pills in the future. Thanks for clearing this up and I somewhat apoligize for being a little slow on the uptake regarding the mechanics of these lights or how the modding market actually operates.


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## Flight_Deck (Jan 4, 2008)

Outstanding review!

Thanks!!!


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## TITAN1833 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks Whc,I will bear this in mind when I receive my spear.FWIW my DBS 3SD with op reflector gives out this seoul beam qaulity and it's bountiful.:twothumbs


whc said:


> I was not completely happy with the beam quality with the optional OP reflector that I purchased with the flashlight, so thought about experiencing with distance to the LED, to see if I could get arid of the awful ring, and WOW what an awesome result.
> 
> I used 1x3/4"x15/16" and 1x3/4"x1" o-ring (the first one almost fits in the grove of the LED module perfect, and the other bigger in top of that), now with the head tighten together very hard, the distance between the LED and reflector gives it an almost completely ring less beam, just perfect all round beam pattern (not a throw monster now, anyway not really what OP reflector is good for).
> 
> ...


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## StefanFS (Jan 5, 2008)

My tip is to stay away from OP reflectors for this particular light. It's a dedicated high performance throw light, using an OP reflector on this light is a waste. If you want an allround light with good output get a smaller OP reflector 18650 light instead, like the Regalight WT1 or the Dereelight CL1H etc. The most economical would be a CREE Q5 UF C2 from HK.
Stefan


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 10, 2008)

I read this whole thread, but I have noticed mention of the head being glued together? Is this part that is "glued" together, also held together by threading, or is there literally metal-on-metal being held together with glue? If that's the case, it would seem that a hard enough impact could make it come apart? Just a slightly further in depth explanation please.


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## TMorita (Jan 10, 2008)

Has anybody explained to the Raidfire guys that "Strong Light" on the bezel is Engrish, and they should use the phrase "Bright Light" instead?

Toshi


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## SCEMan (Jan 10, 2008)

TMorita said:


> Has anybody explained to the Raidfire guys that "Strong Light" on the bezel is Engrish, and they should use the phrase "Bright Light" instead?
> 
> Toshi


 
Or nothing at all?


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## Ikonomi (Jan 10, 2008)

Phenomenal review, thank you.


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## StefanFS (Jan 10, 2008)

Ilikeshinythings said:


> I read this whole thread, but I have noticed mention of the head being glued together? Is this part that is "glued" together, also held together by threading, or is there literally metal-on-metal being held together with glue? If that's the case, it would seem that a hard enough impact could make it come apart? Just a slightly further in depth explanation please.


 
It's threadlock, the red stuff. It's in the threads between the head part and the part that houses the light engine/pill. You can see the threads in the pics WHC published in this thread. Threads are also visible in the product pics in the original sales thread over at CPFMP. My theory is they use threadlock to avoid a lot of crushed emitters as people might tighten it down too hard. It's easy to screw out the led pill even with these parts glued.
Stefan


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks for the explanation Stefan and also for the great review


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 10, 2008)

TMorita said:


> Has anybody explained to the Raidfire guys that "Strong Light" on the bezel is Engrish, and they should use the phrase "Bright Light" instead?
> 
> Toshi



ror


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 11, 2008)

Well I received my light today, and I have to say it is a beauty. It is much smaller than the pictures would let on, and it fits finely in my hand. I have some flickering going on in high mode which I suspect is a tailcap issue. i will go to Radio Shack and get some contact cleaner in a few minutes to see if I can't fix this problem. Other than that, this thing is NICE!


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## greenstuffs (Jan 12, 2008)

This light is ok ok but not so great when you compare them to the high ends where it wants to compete. 
Sure it wins with sheer output but this light is not very functional. Its advertised with 2 outputs but the switching method is not that easy you really have to have a steady hand to dial the head otherwise the light would start flickering. 
The flared tailcap it makes the light hard to operate. I have big hands size i use Size 12 gloves and i don't think it helped me much in operating the light. The switch is also faulty because it needs to be cleaned i press slowly then it comes to "medium" then fully press get high what a joke of switch. 
This light loses in ergonomics, flared tailcap and multimode switch. 
It only wins in the throw department i don't think this reason alone justify the purchase because we all know how the competitors will come out with a better light next month. Sorry this light is a no no.


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 12, 2008)

The light I purchased from you does have some issues, greenstuffs, but I managed to fix the high output mode with some deoxit gold cleaner. I didn't leave it standing overnight though so my low mode seems to have some flickering problems which have just gotten worse. The threads are not lubed at all though and the o-rings feel slippery but not smooth so I will grease it up later and I have a feeling that will help quite a bit. Overall I really like this light a lot. I had a chance to use it looking out over the ocean last night and I was able to light the waves up from a good 200 feet away WITH some heavy mist in the air. It's definitely a spear of light coming from the end of this thing...so much so that it is almost a beacon. I would imagine the line of light could be seen from far far away in the misty conditions. I made a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z5CnW22MyM

my first video, so please go easy on me!


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## AFAustin (Jan 12, 2008)

Nice video. Thanks for posting it. Nice to see how a video can give a very good idea of size, ease of handling, etc.


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 12, 2008)

Cheers Austin


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## greenstuffs (Jan 13, 2008)

I'm glad you like the light, as far as throw and output is second to none. I'm not a high speed guy as far as output concerns me but i really wanted to check this light and i think its output is great. I would of kept it if the tailcap were less flared. 


Ilikeshinythings said:


> The light I purchased from you does have some issues, greenstuffs, but I managed to fix the high output mode with some deoxit gold cleaner. I didn't leave it standing overnight though so my low mode seems to have some flickering problems which have just gotten worse. The threads are not lubed at all though and the o-rings feel slippery but not smooth so I will grease it up later and I have a feeling that will help quite a bit. Overall I really like this light a lot. I had a chance to use it looking out over the ocean last night and I was able to light the waves up from a good 200 feet away WITH some heavy mist in the air. It's definitely a spear of light coming from the end of this thing...so much so that it is almost a beacon. I would imagine the line of light could be seen from far far away in the misty conditions. I made a video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z5CnW22MyM
> 
> my first video, so please go easy on me!


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 13, 2008)

I could see the tailcap being troublesome for some people, particularly those with smaller sized hands. I like this light a lot and I plan on afixing it to my car so that I can easily access it if needed, but I will not be carrying it around with me everywhere. To be quite honest, for every day use my Streamlight Scorpion LED will be my go-to light, not the Spear, however, in emergency situations it would shine (no pun intended), and 8 days straight of useable light may some day really come in handy. No worries, though, if you don't like the spear, wait 2 months..something smaller and better will no doubt arrive with some patience.


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## StefanFS (Jan 13, 2008)

Post #2 updated with real world beamshots down a 250 meter long stretch of rainy country road. Very interesting result in my opinion.
Stefan


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 13, 2008)

wow Stefan, very impressive photos, thank you for shedding some light on these bad boys!! THe only way it could possibly be any better is if there was a DBS in the mix to put the 'contest' to rest in one way or another. Anyways, these lights are truly amazing.


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## StefanFS (Jan 14, 2008)

Ilikeshinythings said:


> wow Stefan, very impressive photos, thank you for shedding some light on these bad boys!! THe only way it could possibly be any better is if there was a DBS in the mix to put the 'contest' to rest in one way or another. Anyways, these lights are truly amazing.


 
Thanks,

assuming that the DBS performs in the rang of 25-27 000 Lux in throw, as it seem to do by results from other members, that means it won't be possible to detect any difference in photos between it and the Spear. I'd love to have a DBS, but the cost and the risk deter me. Spending $125 (over $200 in a worst case scenario) on a light that is within a few % of my other numerous throwers is madness. Especially that I have modded lights that outperform the DBS.
Stefan


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## selfbuilt (Jan 14, 2008)

Ilikeshinythings said:


> I could see the tailcap being troublesome for some people, particularly those with smaller sized hands.


I thought the same, until I had my wife try it. She's 5'2" with relatively small hands - and she found the Spear easy to activate. Easier than the DBS in fact, since the Spear's flared end actually makes it easier to get your whole thumb around the switch (the DBS tends to interfere with the middle of you thumb as you press down). 

In true scientific fashion, I didn't prompt my wife one way or the other  - just handed her all the lights and ask how she found activating the clickies. The DBS wasn't hard to press per se, but she did find the Spear easier (as I did, with my much larger hands).



StefanFS said:


> assuming that the DBS performs in the rang of 25-27 000 Lux in throw, as it seem to do by results from other members, that means it won't be possible to detect any difference in photos between it and the Spear. I'd love to have a DBS, but the cost and the risk deter me. Spending $125 (over $200 in a worst case scenario) on a light that is within a few % of my other numerous throwers is madness.


Well put! In my view, there's really not much of a noticeable difference between the beams of the Spear and DBS (just like how the MRV and Tiablo beams are similar). I'd also recommend people just go with what design features they like best (and stop worrying about lux differences that fall well within margins of error, lightmeter variability, emitter variability, etc.). 

Thanks again for the outdoor beamshots Stefan ... your corner of Sweden is definitely a little pretty looking than my corner of Canada right now.


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## StefanFS (Jan 14, 2008)

Yes, I really can'tsay that I miss the snow, ice and arctic temperatures. But it's a bit disturbing and it worries me sometimes, this time of year it's normally at least a few decimenters of snow and usually around -10 to -15 Celsius. The climate is shot to h*ll.

I'm thinking about selling some lights to fund a DBS, we'll see if that happens. They are all good quality lights with their respective weak and strong points, but the Spear and Tiablo A9 are my favourite 18650 lights. 

Stefan


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 14, 2008)

Ain't likely in the very least, but I kind of like the spear for looks and I REALLY like the beam!

What would one of these set me back approx?


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## TITAN1833 (Jan 14, 2008)

All that may change soon look here the DBS V2http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2110180#post2110180


selfbuilt said:


> I thought the same, until I had my wife try it. She's 5'2" with relatively small hands - and she found the Spear easy to activate. Easier than the DBS in fact, since the Spear's flared end actually makes it easier to get your whole thumb around the switch (the DBS tends to interfere with the middle of you thumb as you press down).
> 
> In true scientific fashion, I didn't prompt my wife one way or the other  - just handed her all the lights and ask how she found activating the clickies. The DBS wasn't hard to press per se, but she did find the Spear easier (as I did, with my much larger hands).
> 
> ...


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 14, 2008)

WOW. That thing looks 10x better than the V1.


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## StefanFS (Jan 14, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> All that may change soon look here the DBS V2http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2110180#post2110180


 
I'm not so sure about that. Anyway, I've had enough and I'm ordering one of the spanking new DBS V2 for the sake of 'science' (let's call it that). Looks much better than V1.
Stefan


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jan 15, 2008)

Good choice Stefan, that light does look very nice indeed. Had I waited on my Raidfire, I may have considered buying this V2 instead, but you know how it goes there is always something bigger and better. That clip is attractive though.


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## mandrake (Jan 16, 2008)

This must must vary by more than just size of hands. My hands are fairly large. I use size large to extra large gloves. I have a hard time with the switch. Unless the light is way forward in my hand, and my thumb joint well behind the back of the light, I have difficulties depressing the switch enough to activate it. To hold the light where it is comfortable and balanced in my hand, my thumb can't activate the switch at all. The flared tail cap may have its utility for some, but I really don't like it!!

If they ever offer a tailcap replacement or a model of the Spear without the flare, I will grab one immediately. 

Phil




selfbuilt said:


> I thought the same, until I had my wife try it. She's 5'2" with relatively small hands - and she found the Spear easy to activate.


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## StefanFS (Jan 16, 2008)

I agree, the tailcap could be more user friendly. One way would be to do cut out areas and a not so flared tailcap.


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## selfbuilt (Jan 16, 2008)

mandrake said:


> This must must vary by more than just size of hands. My hands are fairly large. I use size large to extra large gloves. I have a hard time with the switch. Unless the light is way forward in my hand, and my thumb joint well behind the back of the light, I have difficulties depressing the switch enough to activate it. To hold the light where it is comfortable and balanced in my hand, my thumb can't activate the switch at all. The flared tail cap may have its utility for some, but I really don't like it!!


Good point - the tailcap could definitely be less flared, and not all hands may have as easy a time of it. I suppose I was just pleasantly surprised by how easily it fit my hand (I wasn't expecting it to, given the pre-release photos).

Incidentally, I've just updated my review with another hand pic showing more accurately how I hold the light (i.e. about a finger's width further down than shown in the first pic in my review thread). Still easy for me to activate in this position, but I'll revise the point in that thread..







Of course, in practical terms I flip it around and carry it like a standard flashlight when in actual use (I'm not a very tactical guy ).


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## StefanFS (Jan 16, 2008)

I try to be as 'untactical' as possible in everyday life, but this is the best grip for me with this light:






But as I said earlier, I have big hands. I'm also an archer, so I can hold 3D M*ags in a cigar grip without problems.
Stefan


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## NoFair (Jan 17, 2008)

I actually really like the tailcap, no problems at all... I have very long fingers and practise archery like Stefan

Regarding the flickering on low; The threads on my head have only partially removed anodizing and they don't fit very tightly. This causes the light to sometimes flicker on low as the light doesn't always have contact through the threads. Will try to find a good conducting lube and see if it gets better.

Might ask EdgeTac for a new bezel if I can't get it better:sigh:

Apart from this the light is very impressive.

Sverre


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## StefanFS (Jan 20, 2008)

NoFair said:


> Regarding the flickering on low; The threads on my head have only partially removed anodizing and they don't fit very tightly. This causes the light to sometimes flicker on low as the light doesn't always have contact through the threads. Will try to find a good conducting lube and see if it gets better.
> 
> Might ask EdgeTac for a new bezel if I can't get it better:sigh:
> 
> ...


 
It sounds like your light might have fallen through the cracks in EDGE TAC's quality control at their factory. The head should fit tightly to the battery tube. Like all lights with mechanical mode switching; the switching in itself is an unavoidable weak point in the design.
Stefan


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## NoFair (Jan 20, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> It sounds like your light might have fallen through the cracks in EDGE TAC's quality control at their factory. The head should fit tightly to the battery tube. Like all lights with mechanical mode switching; the switching in itself is an unavoidable weak point in the design.
> Stefan


 
It seems to be that way Stefan:sigh:

I'll be sending of a PM to Ms. Wong about it. The threading isn't matched well enough on my light and there isn't much I can do about it:shrug:

Sverre


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## StefanFS (Feb 1, 2008)

My runtime test on low level has been foiled. On day five, somewhere around 15 hours, the runtime inadvertently ended when a family member found the hidden light and turned it off. At least I know that the light will run on low for five days and then some.. It's not likely that I try this again.
Stefan


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Feb 1, 2008)

I got to handle one of these at the DFW Flashapalooza.

Bigger than I thought from pics, and I didn't find the button hard to thumb.

Don't really plan on ever acquiring one...


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## StefanFS (Feb 1, 2008)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> I got to handle one of these at the DFW Flashapalooza.
> 
> Bigger than I thought from pics, and I didn't find the button hard to thumb.
> 
> Don't really plan on ever acquiring one...


 
Then why did you.........

Who knows, it might serve you well if you get one. I found it a bit strange at first; but it grows on you .

Stefan


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## WadeF (Feb 1, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> My runtime test on low level has been foiled. On day five, somewhere around 15 hours, Stefan


 
Wow! So it had been on over 5 days straight on low? I guess with that 18650, and as little as it puts out on low (which is a good thing) I shouldn't be surprised. I wonder how long it would go for. Maybe I should leave it on low in my bedroom like a nightlight, and recharge it once a week.


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## RdlyLite (Feb 1, 2008)

Hey wade.

I use my spear for this specific purpose when its not being used on my nature walks or to do security sweeps at my home. Matter of fact, its on right now! lol.



WadeF said:


> Wow! So it had been on over 5 days straight on low? I guess with that 18650, and as little as it puts out on low (which is a good thing) I shouldn't be surprised. I wonder how long it would go for. Maybe I should leave it on low in my bedroom like a nightlight, and recharge it once a week.


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## Patriot (Feb 2, 2008)

Stefan, I was wonder what you thought about the anti-reflective qualities of the lens in the Spear. Does it cut reflection down as well as some of your "UCL" lenses? 

I briefly searched for 40mm lenses and it doesn't seem like they're very common. Flashlight Lens for instance doesn't have one that size. Have you looked into replacements for it at all?

Thanks, 

Paul


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## StefanFS (Feb 3, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Stefan, I was wonder what you thought about the anti-reflective qualities of the lens in the Spear. Does it cut reflection down as well as some of your "UCL" lenses?
> 
> I briefly searched for 40mm lenses and it doesn't seem like they're very common. Flashlight Lens for instance doesn't have one that size. Have you looked into replacements for it at all?
> 
> ...


 
I don't think it matches multicoated glass. It's 3 mm thick (which is good in the sense that it's sturdier) and from what I can determine it has clear AR coating on the inner surface. The glass seem to be high quality, but the outer uncoated surface will reflect light. Multicoat on glass usually consist of three layers on each surface, much the same that eyeglasses and binoculars etc. use.

I might be able to get some 40 mm mutlicoat lenses cut by my local glazier shop, but not 3 mm thick. They only have 1 and 2 mm thick panes of this expensive quality, it's $450 per square meter. There would also be a problem with fitting the lens, I would need to find a thicker o-ring or some other solution since that glass is thinner.

Stefan


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## StefanFS (Feb 3, 2008)

Due to the debate whether certain emitter tints works better than others in rain or fog etc. I'd like to point out that all beamshots in this review were shot in rain, pretty much rain even. As usual I didn't notice any differences in the ability to project light at distances or that one would be better than the others at colour rendering. Some of my lights have yellowish CREE WG and others have blueish SSC P4 USXOH.
Stefan


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## Patriot (Feb 4, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> I don't think it matches multicoated glass. It's 3 mm thick (which is good in the sense that it's sturdier) and from what I can determine it has clear AR coating on the inner surface. The glass seem to be high quality, but the outer uncoated surface will reflect light. Multicoat on glass usually consist of three layers on each surface, much the same that eyeglasses and binoculars etc. use.
> 
> I might be able to get some 40 mm mutlicoat lenses cut by my local glazier shop, but not 3 mm thick. They only have 1 and 2 mm thick panes of this expensive quality, it's $450 per square meter. There would also be a problem with fitting the lens, I would need to find a thicker o-ring or some other solution since that glass is thinner.
> 
> Stefan



I really like the 3mm thick glass, but wish the size was more available in ULC. I became a real UCL fan back when I read a CPFer's post about measured transmissivity between stock mag lenses, Borafloats and ULCs. The difference was unexpectedly high with the advantage to the ULC. That's also been verified by your own lux tests which have really been helpful. I appears to be the new throw king but I'm eager to see how the DBS V2 does also. I think that I remember reading that you purchased one.


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## Nitro (Feb 4, 2008)

Stefan, nice review and shots, as usual. :thumbsup: Thanks for sharing.

The Spear looks very interesting. I'm still wondering about that tailcap though. It looks kind of large. I don't know how well it will fit in the pants pocket. I may just give it a try, because I'm always looking for a bit more throw.


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## Ilikeshinythings (Feb 5, 2008)

I wouldn't worrya bout it fitting in your pocket because of the tailcap, i'de be more worried about the oversized head that these "throwers" have for holding them in your pocket. The tailcap is exceptionally good for placing the light vertically, and it is truly not a hindrance for most during operation...but as most flashlights go, it is kinda large. It's a very very nice tool though. I sold mine though, cause it was just nice to look at..I'de be afraid of hurting it so it would never leave my room, but that's just me.


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## Nitro (Feb 5, 2008)

Ilikeshinythings said:


> I wouldn't worrya bout it fitting in your pocket because of the tailcap, i'de be more worried about the oversized head that these "throwers" have for holding them in your pocket. The tailcap is exceptionally good for placing the light vertically, and it is truly not a hindrance for most during operation...but as most flashlights go, it is kinda large. It's a very very nice tool though. I sold mine though, cause it was just nice to look at..I'de be afraid of hurting it so it would never leave my room, but that's just me.


 
I would carry it in my front pocket head side up. The larger head would work fine by not letting it fall comletely in the pocket, making it easy to grab when needed. I wouldn't use this light as tail-stander. It would be strickly an outdoor thrower.


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## marc123 (Feb 6, 2008)

Nitro,

Have you also considered the DBS?
I have a Spear and a DBS V2 with an R2 emitter. The quality of the Spear is better, no doubt about it. I could not find any faults in it's construction and was very very impressed. The throw and beam are fantastic. 

I have noticed a few small quality issues with my DBS, the reflector has a mishapen part near the emitter, the emitter is not centred perfectly, the beam is not as smooth as the Spear, there are a few small chips on the anodizing on the threads and the battery rattles around. However, my DBS is very bright, brighter than my Spear, and is an impressive light and I would buy another, but the Spear is the better made of the two that I have. 

With the upgradability issues aside (upgrade for Spear has not been ruled out yet), I prefer the DBS over the Spear for one reason only....the tailcap on the Spear. I could not get comfortable without having to reposition my grip so that the flares would not dig into my thumb when pressing the switch. When I first ordered the Spear I did not think I was going to have a problem with it but in reality I found it too uncomfortable to operate. I gave it to my father as a present, he loves it. The Spear is the best manufactured light I have seen so far, just that damn tailcap. A lot of other people have posted that they have no problem operating the Spear, my hands are medium size and I guess if I had longer fingers it probably would not be an issue for me either. Anyway, this is my opinion only. Cheers.


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## StefanFS (Feb 13, 2008)

The first post is updated with a runtime on low. No graph for this one. It starts at ~420 Lux and after a day or so it continues for the duration at ~350 Lux in throw. 
It is 6 days and about 10 hours. I got about 160 hours on one AW 2200 mAh LiION cell.
Stefan


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## StefanFS (Feb 24, 2008)

Some beamshots with the RaidFire Spear against the new Dereelight DBS V2 (and my Tiablo A9) in this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190499

Stefan


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## phantom23 (May 6, 2008)

Hi, I have a question. Is reflector in your Spear less shiny than in other throwers? Mine seems slightly matte compared to A9 or Ultrafire C8 (OP).
A9-Spear




C8-A9-Spear




Is it normal or I should send it back?


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## StefanFS (May 6, 2008)

phantom23,
for me it was the other way around. My Spear reflector was 'shinier' than my Tiablo A9 reflector. It will affect throw, subtract a few thousand lux in throw if the reflector isn't as reflective as it could/should be. Since they are throw lights the reflectors are very important for performance. I'd try to get hold of a new reflector in some way.
Stefan


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## phantom23 (May 6, 2008)

Looking at your picture in first post it doesn't look more shiny than Tiablo or Mag reflector (not so many reflections). I'm torn now, lux readings are ok, China is far away and there's huge possibility to lose it.


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## StefanFS (May 6, 2008)

The reflector in the Tiablo A9 in this thread is a replacement. But it's probably no big thing if you keep the one you have. I asked to get a replacement reflector and paid for shipping if I remember correctly, as the shipping is the big cost. Don't send the whole light back, get a new reflector.
Stefan


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## phantom23 (May 6, 2008)

They said to send back only reflector to verify what's wrong because they can't judge by pictures. And that's the problem. It's quite risky operation.


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## selfbuilt (May 6, 2008)

phantom23 said:


> Hi, I have a question. Is reflector in your Spear less shiny than in other throwers? Mine seems slightly matte compared to A9 or Ultrafire C8 (OP) ... Is it normal or I should send it back?


Although hard to tell from photos, my Raidfire Spear reflector is definitely more matte than any of my Tiablo or MRV reflectors. However, my DBS v2 is slightly matte finish as well, closer to my Spear (although my Spear is the most noticeable). And my DBS and Spear remain my best throwers, so it doesn't seem to be hurting them too much. 

But it's hard to know how much it compares to yours, since it's a difficult thing to photograph.


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## Citivolus (May 6, 2008)

I had my reflector out tonight and it is not matte at all - if anything, it is as reflective & polished as my telescope mirror.

Regards,
Eric


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## picard (May 11, 2008)

Does the light come with battery charger too?


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## phantom23 (May 11, 2008)

No battery, no charger.

PS. Edge Tac will replace reflector in my Spear. That's customer service!


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## picard (May 22, 2008)

Has Etac suspended the production of Raidfire? my dealer told me about it. :mecry:


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## woodrow (Aug 29, 2008)

StefanFS, thanks for such a great review. I have looked at it several times over the past several months and wanted this light. I held off because I wanted to buy one from a US distributer. I was actually comparing prices on the new Olight M20 when I found that 4sevens site sold the spear (don't know why this did not occour to me since I knew they sold other Nitecore products).

I decided to buy this light over the Olight because I thought it would have a flatter runtime with an 18650 cell. Every light I have seen that will take a 18650 and 2x 123a's or rcr123a's has more of a dimming output on the 18650.

4sevens only sells the light with the textured reflector... and while I will most likely get the smooth reflector later, I amigine I will be happy with the beam with the OP one. I was really tempted to buy another Pelican 7060, but the fact that this light has a low option, is smaller and can use regular 18650 cells made the difference for me.

Thanks again for the review, I hope the spear impresses me as much as it did you.


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## StefanFS (Sep 1, 2008)

woodrow,
thanks, I'm sure you'll like it. It has a unique design and it's really well built. I like the smooth reflector best in this light as it's a thrower. I rate the workmanship quite a bit over LP and Tiablo in the specimen I got for the review. I had some doubts about the switch but there has been no problems at all with it.

Stefan


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## selfbuilt (Sep 1, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> woodrow,
> thanks, I'm sure you'll like it. It has a unique design and it's really well built. I like the smooth reflector best in this light as it's a thrower. I rate the workmanship quite a bit over LP and Tiablo in the specimen I got for the review. I had some doubts about the switch but there has been no problems at all with it.


Good to see this review brought back up - great to see all the detailed pics again. 

I must say I share Stefan's assessment of the Spear. I keep mine on my desk next to my monitor, and it is typically still my first choice when I want to grab a thrower light for a little exploring (although I'm quite a fan of the smaller Jet-II PRO IBS for shorter excursions).

You'll find additional runtime comparisons to my other throwers in my round-up review in my sig (or my Spear review here). Definitely one of the best regulated you'll find on 18650.


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## 4sevens (Sep 2, 2008)

picard said:


> Has Etac suspended the production of Raidfire? my dealer told me about it. :mecry:


Yes, what we have is the last of them. The production costs were too high. 

So these will be collectors items soon


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## Citivolus (Sep 2, 2008)

4sevens said:


> Yes, what we have is the last of them. The production costs were too high.
> 
> So these will be collectors items soon



Time to order a spare!


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## StefanFS (Sep 2, 2008)

4sevens said:


> Yes, what we have is the last of them. The production costs were too high.
> 
> So these will be collectors items soon


 
The real collectors items will be the ones with the 'strong light' warning.


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## NoFair (Sep 2, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> The real collectors items will be the ones with the 'strong light' warning.


 
Too bad mine went back for replacement then  

The new one was perfect and still is:twothumbs

Sverre

PS! Any chance of something C2 sized running on an 18650 with two stages like the NDI or Spear:shrug:


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## phantom23 (Sep 2, 2008)

NoFair said:


> Too bad mine went back for replacement then
> The new one was perfect and still is:twothumbs



I had to replace mine as well. But new one is even worse...


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## woodrow (Sep 3, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> woodrow,
> thanks, I'm sure you'll like it. It has a unique design and it's really well built. I like the smooth reflector best in this light as it's a thrower. I rate the workmanship quite a bit over LP and Tiablo in the specimen I got for the review. I had some doubts about the switch but there has been no problems at all with it.
> 
> Stefan


 
I received mine today. Thanks again StefanFS and selfbuilt... I also am impressed with the light. It feels much heavier than the Tiablo, and some what heavier than the MRV (both lights I had were also Q5 versions) I liked the Tiablo... but it felt like it would shatter if I ever dropped it.... and my MRV SE had to go back because after I unscrewed the tailcap 3 times.... it would no longer engage the body tube threads. 

I also like the UI of this light. Just like the Fenix T series of lights.... although low is VERY LOW. I do like having 160 hours of runtime on 1x18650 though.... talk about a good survival light.... thats 16 nights at 10 hours a night on one battery! I do not think my Inova X5 would do that! Thats also the reason I did not get another MRV. It runs best on 2xrcr123a's. I would much rather have 90 minutes of flat regulation on a 18650 than 30 on 2xrcr123a's.

Mine came with the OP reflector. Lucky for me, I like the beam. It still throws as well as my old Tiablo MA6 with the smooth reflector....16,000 lux maybe with the textured reflector.... not too bad. The OP reflector does give the bright tight hotspot a nice sun like corona, and although the spillbeam is much tighter than the MRV or T1, it is brighter too. The light also included an extra switch, which is always a nice touch. The hotspot is about 1/2 the size as the Fenix T1's (op reflector ) and arround twice as bright. 

So far, the light has really impressed me with its output... but more than that, how it was made. It just feels REALLY well built. Hopefully, I will be just as impressed with the Olight M20 when that comes in the mail. But for a "thrower" light.... even with a OP reflector, the Spear is a winner in my book. Thanks again for recommending it.


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## NoFair (Sep 3, 2008)

phantom23 said:


> I had to replace mine as well. But new one is even worse...


 
I think they will give you a refund if you ask them.. EdgeTac have been really nice:twothumbs

Sverre


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## phantom23 (Sep 3, 2008)

I need nice light not nice refund. I think I'll trim the pill a little and it should be ok.


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## woodrow (Sep 8, 2008)

I thought I would post a couple of quick beamshots of the Spear vs. the Fenix T1. Although the Spear 4sevens sells has the OP reflector... it still throws!

2" 60 yards 

Fenix T1





Spear OP reflector


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## woodrow (Sep 17, 2008)

*Does anyone know where I can buy a smooth reflector?*


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## EL7 (Sep 17, 2008)

Last month I sent an email direct. Response was there would be a batch made this month and they would be sending it to their US distributor(s).


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## woodrow (Sep 17, 2008)

*Thanks!*


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## EngrPaul (Nov 1, 2008)

Heads up on a potential shorting problem with the Spear.

I recently ordered one from FenixStore, and noticed the reflector was deformed, down in the bottom near the emitter. I shipped the light back to FenixStore for repair.

On receipt of the light after repair, I installed a cell, and the light would not work at all. Tried another, still nothing.

I loosened the bezel, and the light began to flicker on. I pulled the reflector, and noticed the washer was torn through. After lifting the damaged washer out, I could see the solder joints below the washer were flattened. Evidently when it wasn't working, the reflector was through the washers, sitting directly on the emitter solder joints, shorting the driver!

There were matching circumferential wear marks on the back of the reflector, evidently the person replacing the reflector twisted the assembly somehow, instead of just pushing it in and installling the front bezel (as shown on youtube).

Here is the location of the solder joints that were flattened (using a picture from this thread).







The washer they are currently using is a thin, rubbery piece of material. It's not the silvered polyester (?) shown in this picture. I'm not sure either is fully up to the task of mechanically isolating the back of the reflector to the Cree board and solder joints.

I acquired a .005" thick piece of Kapton tape and used a shim hole punch to create a robust washer.

If you've got a rubber washer or dented silver washer under your reflector, you may want to consider doing the same.

I'm surprised my driver wasn't fried.


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## waTom (Nov 5, 2008)

Hi,

is there a possibility to distinguish which side of the lens is the AR-coated one?


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## StefanFS (Nov 5, 2008)

I thought I could when I did the review a long time ago; by angling the surface against a light source and getting a color effect from the ar-coating. Now I'm not so sure about it anymore. It might just be tempered glass with a single layer coating on both surfaces. Still, it was really high grade glass in the one I had.


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## Jeffa (Dec 26, 2008)

EngrPaul Thanks for the heads up I have the same cheesy washer. Now I have to find something better.


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## StefanFS (Dec 28, 2008)

Jeffa said:


> EngrPaul Thanks for the heads up I have the same cheesy washer. Now I have to find something better.


 
I often use cut out pieces of microwave safe food containers for stuff like that. Some are really thin. Also thin sheets of gasket material for use in engines are available for little money in auto part stores etc. That works even better.


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## Jeffa (Dec 28, 2008)

StefanFS Thanks for the ideas. I ended up using a thin but durable composit cutting board material that my wife uses to cut food on.

I realize I am behind the power curve as I just purchased the RaidFire but I figure that it is such a good thrower and has been discontinued I better get one for if nothing else but nostalgia.


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## A/V Dude (Feb 7, 2009)

I also have a RaidFire spear, I am using it as an EDC for work. (lots of crawlspaces and attics) I love this little work horse! I prefer it more than my Fenix TK11 R2 (also EDC). Althouh I do like the low mode on the TK 11 a little more than the Spears low. The TK 11 on low for me is a more usable light. While the Spear is more of a survival long run mode on low.I find myself always reaching for the spear when I need light. 

Oh and the ability to tail stand this light has helped me in a number of occasions. :thumbsup::wave:


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## Wilkerson Brasil (Feb 7, 2009)

I think everyday in a MC-E version (pill) of Spear. I dream with my Spear throwing 600 lumens.

Edgetac, where are you?


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## mandrake (Feb 8, 2009)

There is this one:

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6573

It IS NOT a real Radfire Spear, but a decent clone. Reviews of the Cree model Spear Clone from Kai have been pretty favorable.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/214126

Phil


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## ichoderso (Feb 9, 2009)

mandrake said:


> There is this one:
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6573
> 
> ...



This from your second link, with name "RQ" is a acceptable quality clone from Raidfire Speer.
The MC-E from your first link (name is "Piritlight") is only a"Clone from Clone", .....

Jens


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## EngrPaul (Feb 9, 2009)

EL7 said:


> Last month I sent an email direct. Response was there would be a batch made this month and they would be sending it to their US distributor(s).


 
:bs:


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## mandrake (Feb 10, 2009)

ichoderso said:


> This from your second link, with name "RQ" is a acceptable quality clone from Raidfire Speer.
> The MC-E from your first link (name is "Piritlight") is only a"Clone from Clone", .....
> 
> Jens


 
And the point is? From what I read they are the same flashlight. Meaning the same body, switch and head. Basically the same everything except the driver, emitter and reflector. There are some comments in the thread that I linked to by someone that has the MC-E version. He likes it. The OP said he wanted an MC-E version of the Spear. As it is discontinued from Edgetac, there are (right now) only a couple of options if one wants an MC-E version. A person can mod their existing Spear, or they can buy the KAI MC-E clone (or clone of a clone if the depth of cloning is important).



Wilkerson Brasil said:


> I think everyday in a MC-E version (pill) of Spear. I dream with my Spear throwing 600 lumens.
> 
> Edgetac, where are you?


 
It seems like this might be the fulfillment of Wilkerson's dream... 
If he waits for Edgetac to produce an MC-E driver/emitter/reflector for the Spear, he will likely be waiting a long, long time.

Phil


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## ichoderso (Feb 11, 2009)

mandrake said:


> And the point is? From what I read they are the same flashlight. Meaning the same body, switch and head. Basically the same everything except the driver, emitter and reflector.
> 
> 
> Phil



Hi Phil, not the same body,please look carefully, other knurling, other anodyzing, other tailcup(longer, tight3er). I have both!

Jens

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductImages.aspx?ProductId=5558

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductImages.aspx?ProductId=6573


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## phantom23 (Feb 11, 2009)

mandrake said:


> And the point is? From what I read they are the same flashlight. Meaning the same body, switch and head. Basically the same everything except the driver, emitter and reflector.



Different switch (reverse instead of forward), body has the same shape but coating is type-II not HA-III.


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## mandrake (Feb 12, 2009)

I should have looked more closely. I ordered the MC-E model based on what was said on the other thread about it. Looking closely at the pics, definitely different lights. I hope that I didn't make a bad decision based on ***-umption.

Jens,
how do you like the MC-E version?

Phil


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## ichoderso (Feb 13, 2009)

mandrake said:


> I should have looked more closely. I ordered the MC-E model based on what was said on the other thread about it. Looking closely at the pics, definitely different lights. I hope that I didn't make a bad decision based on ***-umption.
> 
> Jens,
> how do you like the MC-E version?
> ...



Hi Phil, I havn't the MC-E, I have the Original Spear, the Clone "RQ" with Q5 and P7 and the "Clone of Clone" "Piritlight" with Q5.
Compare this, the "RQ" is better, better anodyzing, better quality (switch, driver etc....LED very blueish tint....

Jens


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## StefanFS (Feb 13, 2009)

The alternative Spear type torch RQ was indistinguishable from my Spear, the only difference was the name, the driver and the click switch. It also had on less o-ring... The driver in the RQ drives the emitter to ~1A, it's a 2 level AMC7135 driver with long runtime on one 18650 cell. But it's a little less output than the Spear, ~20% less. Since it's not glued (mine wasn't) and the driver is not soldered to the emitter/driver pill it's easy to change the driver to something with more power or less depending on taste.

The MC-E Spear clone, that's another story. It's crap. Waste of metal. I have one such torch that a member sent me for investigation. It's output is on par with an overdriven Q5 RQ/Spear, it's completely glued. It's not possible to take it apart. The MC-E had a separated dome, the MC-E was not centerd in the reflector. It drives the MC-E at less than 1A. It had thin glass in the lens, not 3mm like the RQ/Spear. It cracked when I tried to unscrew the head. The switch has very high resistance and is questionable. The only part that's any good is the flashlight body which, regretfully, is totally glued so it can't even be used as a modding host. I suspect the same applies to the other low end clones of the Spear. Best to stay away.
But again, the RQ is OK in my opinion. That one is really good. Especially for those that are able to change driver etc.


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## Isthereanybodyoutthere (Feb 13, 2009)

I also got the DX M-CE version 
Did look down the reflector as soon as i got it 
Emitter centered  HMM i know it didnt work out god with a reflector that got from KAI (it has to be OUT of center to work )
And sure enough ,,ugly donut :thumbsdow
Well at least it did pull 2,35amp from a fresh 18650 :thumbsup:
BUT :shrugnly from a fresh 
After some 15 minutes it did only pull 1,8
Bad driver ,,a amc 7135x 7 would have done better ,,far better 

But i could get the lens of ,the rest was glued to hell 
So i did take a look :huh: a star on top of a brass pill ,but no sign of termal anything 
And what the f,,,was that ,
The pill is NOT screwed into anything 
,Think a tophat standing on a tube then the middle part is screwed onto the tube and squishing the tophat against the tube 
The pill is sticking 6,5 mm into the head 
So the heat has to crawl those 6,5 mm back(there is 1,5mm air between the pill and head ) ,and then only the rim of the pill have a termal path to the tube 

I have seen dropins with better termal paths 

Anybody in Denmark that wants to buy a 2 days old light :devil:

I will politely ask DX to take this misfoster back and refund my $$


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## EngrPaul (Feb 13, 2009)

A much better light with a Neutral White emitter. :nana:

Just be ready to struggle to remove the stock emitter board. :ironic:


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## cerberuss (Feb 14, 2009)

StefanFS said:


> The alternative Spear type torch RQ was indistinguishable from my Spear, the only difference was the name, the driver and the click switch. It also had on less o-ring... The driver in the RQ drives the emitter to ~1A, it's a 2 level AMC7135 driver with long runtime on one 18650 cell. But it's a little less output than the Spear, ~20% less. Since it's not glued (mine wasn't) and the driver is not soldered to the emitter/driver pill it's easy to change the driver to something with more power or less depending on taste.
> 
> The MC-E Spear clone, that's another story. It's crap. Waste of metal. I have one such torch that a member sent me for investigation. It's output is on par with an overdriven Q5 RQ/Spear, it's completely glued. It's not possible to take it apart. The MC-E had a separated dome, the MC-E was not centerd in the reflector. It drives the MC-E at less than 1A. It had thin glass in the lens, not 3mm like the RQ/Spear. It cracked when I tried to unscrew the head. The switch has very high resistance and is questionable. The only part that's any good is the flashlight body which, regretfully, is totally glued so it can't even be used as a modding host. I suspect the same applies to the other low end clones of the Spear. Best to stay away.
> But again, the RQ is OK in my opinion. That one is really good. Especially for those that are able to change driver etc.



Wow I was debating between the RQ and MC-E version for a while.After reading that I'm really glad that I went with the RQ instead


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## mandrake (Feb 15, 2009)

cerberuss said:


> Wow I was debating between the RQ and MC-E version for a while.After reading that I'm really glad that I went with the RQ instead


 
I wish I would have read it before ordering...
Though in the clone thread there is one guy that writes highly of the MC-E version. I have an original Spear...I like it in many ways. but it sees limited use! Hopefully the MC-E version is not that BAD.  I just bought it to get an MC-e light (on the CHEAP). Hopefully I can mod it to make it worth the UNDER $50 delivered that it cost me (pretty darn cheap as most of my lights go). I finally got a P7 (MAG mod from Elektrolumens). It is big, the beam is ugly on a white wall, but DAMN, it puts out lots of light!


Phil


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## cerberuss (Feb 16, 2009)

mandrake said:


> I wish I would have read it before ordering...
> Though in the clone thread there is one guy that writes highly of the MC-E version. I have an original Spear...I like it in many ways. but it sees limited use! Hopefully the MC-E version is not that BAD.  I just bought it to get an MC-e light (on the CHEAP). Hopefully I can mod it to make it worth the UNDER $50 delivered that it cost me (pretty darn cheap as most of my lights go). I finally got a P7 (MAG mod from Elektrolumens). It is big, the beam is ugly on a white wall, but DAMN, it puts out lots of light!
> 
> 
> Phil



Well if you can get the threads cracked open and reach the driver then you'll be in business... You'd probably have good luck with a clamp and strap wrench.. but you can try(I would try as I dont have the tools) getting a buddy to hold one end while you both twist in opposite directions, using cornstarch on your hands for grip  ... another tip I read was wrapping alot of rubber bands tightly around the parts you need grip on.


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## StefanFS (Feb 22, 2009)

Another member sent me his Spear clone with MC E emitter. The objective was to try to make it better. It worked well enough but has ~ half the output it could have with a better driver.

Some pics as it's been mentioned in this thread.





































All pieces except tailcap and pill were recycled after this.


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## mandrake (Feb 23, 2009)

What are yur plans for the light? I have one now. I agree, it works OK, but the output is a bit low. It is not visually, as bright in throw as one of my Solarforce L2 lights with the KD R2 dropin. What driver are you intending to use? How did you get it apart. Mine appears to be glued. Is that the bezel that is all chewed up? At least on mine that piece easily unscrewed. I pulled the reflector and found one of the O rings was in pieces. I have yet to find one of the correct size to replace it with.

Phil


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## StefanFS (Feb 23, 2009)

It was recycled into the metal bin at my local recycling point. Wasn't worth the trouble/cost to fix it up. Should have left it alone as it was...


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