# Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 4x18650 HID Flashlight



## Lips

*.
.*

*Magic Fire 40W HID 4000-Lumen 
4x18650 HID Flashlight*



*These are in the Marketplace here as a few have seen*...



http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...ire-40W-HID-4000-Lumen-4x18650-HID-Flashlight


$180



They may be worth taking a look at: Shorty, Tight Around Bulb, Smoother Reflector, 4300k, 4 x 18650 user replaceable etc.




*Tight Bulb and Smooth Reflector*









*Very Tight and Smooth*








*User replaceable Batteries 18650 x 4*































*Shorty!*


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## Mr. Tone

Yeah, I think these look great. I want to get one as soon as I can come up with the cash. I really like the form factor and also the use of 18650 batteries.


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## Richie086

Hi Lips...This is a winner just for the fact it doesn't require a proprietary battery pack. Finally a positive leap forward in my book. I really like the great 4300k temp too.


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## MDJAK

I just ordered one. Look forward to getting it


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## Patriot

3rd to last photo, the light is etched "Magic Scorpion" Wow! quite the name on that thing...haha. Looks like a great little light and I really dig the battery carrier.


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## JulianP

Richie086 said:


> Hi Lips...This is a winner just for the fact it doesn't require a proprietary battery pack. Finally a positive leap forward in my book. I really like the great 4300k temp too.


No proprietary battery pack? Whoa! We asked the universe, and the universe listened.


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## Patriot

JulianP said:


> No proprietary battery pack? Whoa! We asked the universe, and the universe listened.




For sure! One of the reasons that I enjoy my WE Boxers so much are because of the loadable, non-proprietary carriers. As long as the ballasts hold up it kind of future-proofs the light, since fresh, up-datable cells can always be used.


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## MDJAK

Patriot, ot, but gotta say I love your videos and reviews. You are awesome.


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## Patriot

MDJAK said:


> Patriot, ot, but gotta say I love your videos and reviews. You are awesome.



I'm probably the most minimally "awesome" person that I know...lol. But thanks for the kindness.




I'm really thinking about picking one of these up. It seems like a lot of light for the money and something that I might enjoy for non-serious night hikes. I'd like to find out if the carriers can be purchased separately because a depleted battery pack on the trail would only require dropping in another carrier preloaded with charged cells.


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## TEEJ

Looking forward to a review. It LOOKS like if you drop it, it will break.

The difference between a tool and a toy is typically one of my criteria.


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## BVH

I know you emphasized "Looks" and I'm not finding fault with your post but am wondering what points lead you to that conclusion? 



TEEJ said:


> Looking forward to a review. It LOOKS like if you drop it, it will break.
> 
> The difference between a tool and a toy is typically one of my criteria.


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## TEEJ

It just looked delicate to me.

The wire would have momentum, and obviously some range of motion imposed by impacts, and that sort of thing seems to be vulnerable to vibration and impacts, etc....as the attachment points would therefore be slightly tweaked back and forth, if not on impact, upon repeated vibration, stress, etc.

The bezel looks thin, and the head heavy compared to the tube. Again, it might all be the way the pic looks, and not the light itself, etc, but it looks like the head would deform and the lens might crack on a bezel strike.

So, its an impression. I hope its wrong....hence my hoping for a good review by someone with it in their hands. That is always better than looking at 2D pics.


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## BVH

OK, thanks for that info!


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## Patriot

> TEEJ
> It LOOKS like if you drop it, it will break.





TEEJ said:


> It just looked delicate to me.
> 
> The wire would have momentum, and obviously some range of motion imposed by impacts, and that sort of thing seems to be vulnerable to vibration and impacts, etc....as the attachment points would therefore be slightly tweaked back and forth, if not on impact, upon repeated vibration, stress, etc.




Judging from the knurling, it looks like if you threw it 50ft straight up, a mysterious force would hold it immobilized in the air until lunch hour, at which time levitation would cease and you could capture it with a sharp eye and a fishing net..... 

Ok, I'm just joking with you TEEJ. :nana::wave:

I think the wire you're referring to is just a shadow that's been magnified by the reflector. There is no actual wire running across it. The materials and dimensions are pretty conventional so I suspect that it should be a reasonably robust light from the outside. I'm never too worried about lights constructed of aluminum tubes but I always question the electronics within, the stuff we cant see. I might pull the trigger on one of these but I'd feel better if the seller started responding to questions in his own sales thread first.


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## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> Judging from the knurling, it looks like if you threw it 50ft straight up, a mysterious force would hold it immobilized in the air until lunch hour, at which time levitation would cease and you could capture it with a sharp eye and a fishing net.....
> 
> Ok, I'm just joking with you TEEJ. :nana::wave:
> 
> I think the wire you're referring to is just a shadow that's been magnified by the reflector. There is no actual wire running across it. The materials and dimensions are pretty conventional so I suspect that it should be a reasonably robust light from the outside. I'm never too worried about lights constructed of aluminum tubes but I always question the electronics within, the stuff we cant see. I might pull the trigger on one of these but I'd feel better if the seller started responding to questions in his own sales thread first.




See, THIS is why 2D sucks.



Yeah - They have been active on either forum lately....lots of Que piling up, and no answers.

I imagine this isn't all they do all day or something crazy like that.

I could use this light if its durable though, so....

[whistling...]


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## Fusion_m8

Imagine how much lost sales these guys are sustaining by not answering the Q's... silly...


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## Lips

Be nice to know how the start-up time is... 

Very Slow -- Slow -- Medium -- Fast -- Ultra Fast (ala Polarion)


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## MDJAK

Well as I said, I ordered one. As soon as it arrives you gentlemen will know


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## Mr. Tone

It has been a long time since the seller replied to any threads in the MarketPlace. My guess is that he is too busy to come on here because he normally responds to his threads almost daily. I, too, am strongly considering picking one of these up. This is really the kind of form factor and battery design a lot of us have been looking/asking for. Also if the quality turns out to be good then the price is more than reasonable for this kind of power.


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## Fusion_m8

As I mentioned in the sales thread:

"My only conclusion is that Rick must have had a REALLY special Valentine's Day with his partner and is probably way too drained out physically and intoxicated to answer any of our Q's. Let's just hope his drinks lots of chicken essence and RedBull and we all wish him a speedy recovery...





Perhaps to us grumbling people, we're just jealous that he had a better Valentine's Day than us???"

:naughty:


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## MDJAK

Got email from seller that it shipped. Communication has been good. We shall see. Stay tuned.


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## missionaryman

I wish they would make these things with a proper reflector, that thing will not capture and project all 4000 lumens, most will be wasted as indirect flood.


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## Glenn7

A couple of things that hold me back, I wonder about the reflector too if it will be too small and floody also the start up time.


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## MDJAK

They do. . It's called a polarion.


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## missionaryman

Yeah but they're only for people silly/wealthy enough to spend that much on a torch, for the rest of the population however...


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## MDJAK

Obivously I was joking. When I got the initial email acknowledging my order, I wrote back because they had my name wrong. They immediately replied and said "noted."

When I got the shipped email, I wrote back to inform them of their lack of reply on this thread, but that email bounced back.


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## dudemar

This thing looks fairly promising. I'm kinda tempted to pick one up... argh so many choices!


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## Fusion_m8

missionaryman said:


> Yeah but they're only for people silly/wealthy enough to spend that much on a torch, for the rest of the population however...



Absolutely, its like those rich snobs who believe that no car is worth buying unless its a Rolls Royce or Bentley. How many of us on CPF own a Rolls Royce or Bentley?


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## Glenn7

Oh and can focus be changed.


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## Patriot

missionaryman said:


> I wish they would make these things with a proper reflector, that thing will not capture and project all 4000 lumens, most will be wasted as indirect flood.



Nothing captures and projects "all" lumens, not the SR90, Polarion, or Aspheric LED for that matter. Also, it's not like they didn't post a beamshot for us in the last picture in order to at least give us a rough idea of what to expect. Obviously, when there's any attempt to produce something compact it's going to be at the sacrifice of some other area of performance with weighed effect. Judging from the beamshot they were able to produce a very small 40W with a fairly focused hotspot. 



> missionaryman
> Yeah but they're only for people silly/wealthy enough to spend that much on a torch, for the rest of the population however...



I'm neither silly (all the time) or wealthy and though I can't speak for everyone, most of the CPF members I know who own Polarions are pretty regular dudes who just happened to have saved up for one. In any case, there are plenty of HID's out there that will out throw the Polarion. It just happens to have a good mixture of beam shape and throw for its given size. I think there are numerous choices out there if one's main requirement is simply "a proper reflector." 





> Glenn7
> Oh and can focus be changed.



I see no description or evidence that would indicate that the head is focus-able. Might be something to ask in the sales thread if the seller ever chimes in again.


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## MDJAK

Thank you for replying to what I perceived as denigrating comments above. 

Seller did reply btw. Mine should arrive next week.


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## BVH

Patriot said:


> I see no description or evidence that would indicate that the head is focus-able. Might be something to ask in the sales thread if the seller ever chimes in again.



With all the HID's and other lights I've had, having the ability to "de-focus" a properly focused beam is practically useless. The end result is usually a ringy, donut hole, less than desired large spot. Not saying they are all that way, but something with this size reflector would probably yield a lousy looking large spot. Having had a a Barn Burner for a few years, I never once used its' de-focusing abilities after rotating the bezel one time when I first acquired the light. Just my $0.02 worth.


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## Lips

.
.
Polarion would be better compared to a high-end BMW than Rolls Royce. They just do most things right with their lights. Clearly way-out-classing nearly all of the competition so they currently get a premium price for their products and deservedly so. Not to mistake the 75w HID's mass produced and selling on ebay lights as worthy competition. All is not perfect, as with any product, the Polarions past/current generation of batteries probably have a protection circuit drain problem. On a major Plus-Side for CPF members, Polarion gives a $700 discount on their most popular light, Abyss ($1425 vs $2099 AELight Xenide), over the next best comparable competition; Hard to argue with that reality... Polarions premium is earned with the quality, functions, fit and finish, durability, availability, dealer infrastructure and customer service (expensive overhead) that very few competitors could even think about challenging on high-end lights for now... 

No way the Magic Fire should be able to compete with the best but the competition should be keeping everybody on their toes! My guess is the reflector is too shallow for a tight enough throw beam and the 10 - 15 sec warm up time is old news. Probably underpowered too at 40w consumption power instead of too-the-bulb power. All guesses until the fellows get their lights soon! The light design looks like it uses the same round ballast as the mass produced HID's on ebay. The seller says he has spare bulbs on the way so maybe these are different as I remember the bulbs on the mass produced ebay HID's being built into the ballast and not user replaceable. Hopefully these will surprise on the upside so waiting for you guys to report back!


.


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## MDJAK

Still waiting for it but you peeps will be the first to know when I get it. Btw, I saw the discount code on the abyss. Is there one for the ph40?


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## [email protected]

I'm waiting for the PH45 which is due this year. :thumbsup:


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## mohanjude

[email protected] said:


> I'm waiting for the PH45 which is due this year. :thumbsup:



I have been waiting for the PH45 for a long time... Hopefully it will materialise in 2012!


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## [email protected]

Yes it will.. Just have to be patient. There will be a few new lights and the PH series will get a bump to 45w.

Polarion will not release something that's unreliable. It's currently under rigorous test before rollout.. :wave:


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## mohanjude

[email protected] said:


> Yes it will.. Just have to be patient. There will be a few new lights and the PH series will get a bump to 45w.
> 
> Polarion will not release something that's unreliable. It's currently under rigorous test before rollout.. :wave:



I am not sure if the PH series will get a bump to 45w - in my opinion it is dropping down to 45w. The PH50 is still been manufactured and can be purchased retail. I purchased mine recently. I realise there were design issues but for me it is time to cross the 50w barrier or make a 45w that is way smaller than the current PH series.


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## [email protected]

Yes, you're right. The 50w is still being made but it's aimed at some European countries. The heat will Melt the base if use extended periods in hot countries. Just have to use it carefully. 

By the way, what do have in mind for 50w and above hid lights? I'm looking at the Maxa beam.. What do you thing about this light? 

Hope to hear from you soon. :wave:


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## MDJAK

mohanjude said:


> I have been waiting for the PH45 for a long time... Hopefully it will materialise in 2012!



Mohan, your RC collection is amazing.


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## mohanjude

Thanks... I have a rather varied collection. I do have a problem with hobbies. I get carried away. Flashlights are just as addictive..

Received notification yesterday from Ric that the item shipped on Saturday .. I just checked on DHL on the off chance... That was quick - it is already with the delivery driver. 2 days from Hong Kong to Bristol depot during a weekend ? If it goes to plan I should have Scorpion today according to the DHL tracking.


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## mohanjude

[email protected] said:


> Yes, you're right. The 50w is still being made but it's aimed at some European countries. The heat will Melt the base if use extended periods in hot countries. Just have to use it carefully.
> 
> By the way, what do have in mind for 50w and above hid lights? I'm looking at the Maxa beam.. What do you thing about this light?
> 
> Hope to hear from you soon. :wave:



I would like to see a 60w/70w with a good quality reflector on a torch the size of a PH40. A bit of a hybrid of the 80w eBay HIDS but using a good host, good battery and been compact. I think Lithium batteries have further matured and I cannot see why higher capacity ballasts / bulbs can't be used to pair with the higher capacity denser Lithium cells unless cooling is the main problem. LED's have come a long way in the past 3 years - don't seem to see that progress with HID torches.


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## [email protected]

I guess, you can get a 3" size reflector running on 60w/70w but it will burn it out. Too hot my friend. My NR without any winds in temp around 28deg c just heats up the head fast.

Imagine the reliably you will get? I have an 75w ebay light but its hot. Lithium is good but the heat will destroy it & might even cause an explosion. I run 1/8 scale gas serpent rc cars in singapore & my lithium receiver pack just blew up on the tracks on temp around 30+ midday. I would not even think of using it without proper cooling & amp draw measurements.

I now wrap them in heat shield film to prevent form happening again. HID technology has already matured so nothing to progress. LED has a long way more to go.


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## [email protected]

You're a very lucky guy Mohan... enjoy your new light.. :nana:


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## stollman

I was curious about the light and sent an emal to the Seller (Rick). His reply email mentioned: the beam can be focused, he would be willing to include an extra glass lens at no cost (good idea in case it breaks), and that he would accept a return if I did not like the light. Shipping back to China is $50.00 via USPS, which the Buyer pays. That's the bad thing about doing bus with companies across the pond....shpping expense to return an item.

Food for thought


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## mohanjude

Got the Magic scorpion.. Took some pictures and a little impression of the light. It is over in cpfm in the OP thread by Ric.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## MDJAK

I chose EMS, foolishly, I guess. The only time I've dealt with them, though, I had great, quick service. But that was over 10 years ago. The email I received said it was shipped on the 12th but the tracking number, if that's what it is, doesn't work when I go to EMS to track it. I'm sure it will arrive one day this week.

In the meantime, post some beam shots after dark if you can. I'm very curious to see what, if any, flood it has aside from it's throw distance. I've never owned an HID before.

I'm fighting the temptation to get the Abyss but temptation may win out after I get my hands on this.


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## MDJAK

mohanjude said:


> Got the Magic scorpion.. Took some pictures and a little impression of the light. It is over in cpfm in the OP thread by Ric.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



BTW, I know this may be off topic, but I just saw the last half of your signature line. As I'm new here, I don't know that a McGizmo/Kuku is or what a Trit is? I know that McGizmo is something custom, but I don't know if they are still made or anything else about it. Thanks.
Mark


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## MDJAK

So obviously I'm anxious to get my light. I emailed Ric to inquire. The tracking number he provided does not come up with any information. He immediately replied and said he'd check on it. He then replied within a few minutes. Now that is very impressive service. However. And you knew there had to be a "but." He now sends me a copy of my invoice showing the light shipped five days after the original notification, and a different tracking number, also untrackable. Now I'm sure that's EMS's fault and not his, but I'm not thrilled about it. I have no doubt its on the way either. But that's just not creating that warm fuzzy feeling, I gotta say.


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## Lips

.
.

Hello *mohanjude*


Thanks for the pics and insight.


Can't get into marketplace for the moment but your pic of the Reflector looks different than what the seller has posted. Your pic looks like the reflector has two-levels. Is that correct...

seller pic






seller pic







.


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## Patriot

Been trying to open CPF Marketplace for the past 45 minutes but apparently it's down again. Looking forward to seeing the pictures and updates.....


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## mohanjude

Do you guys want me to add the photos here as CPFM down. I am just getting into trying to take Beamshots. Could not find the the mounting plate for my tripod which meant trying to juggle a camera and flashlight by hand.

Lips:
Not sure if the reflector is 2 levels - it maybe simply the reflection - when you look at the back you can see the step. This translates to where the bulb enters the reflector at the front - it is a kind of a little tunnel where you have to be careful when guide the Bulb through. Is that what you mean stepped? Does this help with the beam? A kind of mini reflector inside a larger reflector (marked in red circle below)

Back of reflector 






Front of reflector and bulb






Red circle where I think Lips is refering to







Control shot at 12 metres





Magic scorpion







Polarion PH50







Control shot of street







Magic Scorpion - quite surprised how well it throws.






Polarion PH50 (I did not change exposure but it looks like something has changed) - however to the Naked eye the Polarion illuminates the house better.







With a bit of confidence I might muster up the courage to terrorise my neighbourhood for more beam shots. I need to find somewhere that is totally dark.

Mohan


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## mohanjude

OK I have been declared insane for driving around early hours of the morning armed with 2 HID lights and a camera

I took 3 sets of shots each with the Polarion Ph50 and Magic scorpion. I changed the settings slightly between the sets but are the same for the PH50 vs MS in each set. I had to use the roof of my car as a tripod.

Control shot 1






Polarion Ph50 Shot 1






Magic Scorpion Shot 1






Polarion PH50 Shot 2






Magic Scorpion Shot 2






Control shot 3 (higher exposure)






Polarion PH50 Shot 3






Magic Scorpion Shot 3







As you can see the Polarion PH50 (50W) is much brighter than the Magic Scorpion rated at 40W. However it is the 1/10th the price. What you are getting is a rather useful torch that will throw well and runs on 18650 cells.


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## TEEJ

Looks pretty good from here at least.



What's your estimate of the distance to that house lit up at the end of the street?


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## Ginseng

mohanjude said:


> As you can see the Polarion PH50 (50W) is much brighter than the Magic Scorpion rated at 40W. However it is the 1/10th the price. What you are getting is a rather useful torch that will throw well and runs on 18650 cells.


This is compelling. Could this be the best economy HID value out there? Color me intrigued.

Wilkey


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## light36

Mohan thank you for the information and beamshots , must say the magic scorpion is better than what i expected and it really have very good throw for a $180 flashlight . It is clear that the Polarion(50 Watt) has more throw and alot more spill , but yes the magic scorpion(40 Watt) seems to be great value for money . How is the fit and finish on the magic scorpion .


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## JulianP

Thanks, I wish I hadn't bought a Xeccon 35W HID a few months ago. But I will buy the next Scorpion, if it has >50W. To tell the truth, I would now like a small 85-100W HID (Not the bazookas for sale on eBay).


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## Ginseng

I apologize if I missed it, but does anyone have any idea of the current draw on that series of 18650s?

Wilkey


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## Lips

.
.




mohanjude said:


> Lips:
> Not sure if the reflector is 2 levels - it maybe simply the reflection - when you look at the back you can see the step. This translates to where the bulb enters the reflector at the front - it is a kind of a little tunnel where you have to be careful when guide the Bulb through. Is that what you mean stepped? Does this help with the beam? A kind of mini reflector inside a larger reflector (marked in red circle below)
> 
> Back of reflector




*That's the spot you have marked in red on your pic below. Looks like a reflector inside a reflector... Not sure if that's the best way to do a reflector but... It doesn't look like the pic they have posted on the sale site if that's what we are seeing and not just a reflection. The return wire also looks modified more and closer to bulb in sales pic.*


Mohan Pic





Sale Pic





.


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## mohanjude

TEEJ said:


> Looks pretty good from here at least.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your estimate of the distance to that house lit up at the end of the street?



It approx 100m (300 feet).


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## mohanjude

light36 said:


> Mohan thank you for the information and beamshots , must say the magic scorpion is better than what i expected and it really have very good throw for a $180 flashlight . It is clear that the Polarion(50 Watt) has more throw and alot more spill , but yes the magic scorpion(40 Watt) seems to be great value for money . How is the fit and finish on the magic scorpion .



The fit and Finnish is very good for a light of this calibre. It feels solid and well built. It however doesn't compare to something like the Jil Lite Eznite that I was admiring again - it is such a beautiful design.

Picture by Patriot


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## mohanjude

Ginseng said:


> I apologize if I missed it, but does anyone have any idea of the current draw on that series of 18650s?
> 
> Wilkey



At startup it approx 4.6amps surge but soon levels off at less than 3amps - the 2.8amps it draws on steady - the AW 3.1amps 186500 should not struggle on this draw and last 1 hour.

Video to show this


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## Fusion_m8

4.6A at startup... hopefully XTAR 2600mah will be up to it.


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## Ginseng

mohanjude said:


> At startup it approx 4.6amps surge but soon levels off at less than 3amps - the 2.8amps it draws on steady - the AW 3.1amps 186500 should not struggle on this draw and last 1 hour.


Brilliant! Thank you for that info. You go above and beyond.

Wilkey

So, I guess the next question is...who's in for a group buy?  I am half serious as this seems an exceptional bargain.


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## [email protected]

Lips said:


> .
> .
> 
> Hi guys, that small reflector inside is called collimated light. What it does is to focus a hot spot around few degrees (2 to 5 degrees) as compared to the Uncollimated light which normally higher like 15 to 30 degrees.
> 
> So in actual use you'll see a bright spot in the beam. So that's why it's important to build a reflector base on the bulb of the hid to get maximum performance and throw. If the reflector is designed wrongly then the beam will not have a perfect throw.
> 
> This scorpion light looks like 5 degrees collimated reflector. Hope this helps guys.
> 
> 
> 
> *That's the spot you have marked in red on your pic below. Looks like a reflector inside a reflector... Not sure if that's the best way to do a reflector but... It doesn't look like the pic they have posted on the sale site if that's what we are seeing and not just a reflection. The return wire also looks modified more and closer to bulb in sales pic.*
> 
> 
> Mohan Pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sale Pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


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## hahoo

will be as bright as my stanley hid 3000 ??


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## Patriot

mohanjude said:


> The fit and Finnish is very good for a light of this calibre. It feels solid and well built. It however doesn't compare to something like the Jil Lite Eznite that I was admiring again - it is such a beautiful design.



I remember taking that picture! Still have my EZnite which was my 2nd one and previously BVH's.


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## mohanjude

Patriot
Sorry if I did not acknowlege (didnt know it was yours) - I was sent the pictures during a purchase. I am more than happy to take it off.

I have 2 eznites and I should really go and take some pictures of them. I have both a 10w and 14W and I expected the 10W to be 'weak' compared to the 14W. However the 10W is really bright, throws well. I was going to modify it with a 14W ballast but I think it is just ''fine' as it is. The 14W I use with 4 RCR123's and the 10W with x3 RCR123's

Have you done any mods on yours ? 

I have purchased a the Jil Lite Kydex holster which fits well on the belt. There is also a Rechargable battery pack for sale. See no advantage really so have not bothered with this.

Sorry gone off topic...


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## Patriot

mohanjude said:


> Patriot
> Sorry if I did not acknowlege (didnt know it was yours) - I was sent the pictures during a purchase. I am more than happy to take it off.




Of course it's no problem Mohan. Please feel free to use it any way or anywhere you'd like. Kinda nice to see my "artwork" being passed around. 

No mods to mine but I do run it on 4 x rechargeables. I was never even aware that they offered a 14W version already built, unless that was a mod... but I think that's really neat. 

We might continue the rest by PM though.


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## Wildlands

I just ordered one. I accidentally ordered the 5000k version, as that was the default color specified on the radio button. I emailed them back to request a 4300k bulb on it. We'll see how that goes. I asked for EMS shipping, and hopefully, it will get to the US and to Maine by next week.

I have a Stanley HID that is about the only light I can use for a comparison. I'll try it against a Fandyfire 3xml, and a Thrunight V2 SST-50, but as LEDs they aren't quite the best comparisons.

Thanks for all the great posts, and comments. I wouldn't have seen this, and if I had, I might not have bought it without all the bright minds here talking about, speculating, buying and evaluating this beast.

EDIT: And WOW, they replied to my email (middle of the night????!!) and noted my change request was accepted, and it would ship tomorrow. Got a good feeling here, guys...


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## Glenn7

Can someone do a lux reading at one meter? It would be interesting.
Though not as small but runs on 4x 18650 as well, I have a Elektrolumens SAR coming and it's pulling 160.000 + lux at one meter - I'm hoping it will give this a run for its money.


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## scheven_architect

too bad i just bought a ebay 85w hid, i always postpone ordering things but when i should still have waited a lil' more


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## Patriot

Glenn7 said:


> I have a Elektrolumens SAR coming and it's pulling 160.000 + lux at one meter - I'm hoping it will give this a run for its money.



I'm speculating that the Magic Fire will be 130,000 - 150,000 lux with that smooth reflector.


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## Glenn7

Cool, so I'm defiantly buying the right light.


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## spaz815

Group by over at the market place.


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## spaz815

Waiting for my email to paypal then its mine. Can't wait!


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## Colonel Sanders

Got mine on the way!  I haven't been this excited about a new light in a long time. Looks like a helluva bang for the buck.


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## Wildlands

I missed the group buy rate, darnit!


----------



## spaz815

you missed it already


----------



## stollman

Wildands...

As of "now", the details of the GB are still being determined on the Marketplace thread for this light.

FYI.


----------



## MDJAK

Got mine tonight. Only had time to play in backyard but I gotta say, and this is my first experience with HID, it's hella bright and powerful. Like wow, totally outshines my SR90. Can't wait to take it on a dark walk.


----------



## hahoo

MDJAK said:


> Got mine tonight. Only had time to play in backyard but I gotta say, and this is my first experience with HID, it's hella bright and powerful. Like wow, totally outshines my SR90. Can't wait to take it on a dark walk.




out does the sr 90 huh ?

does it throw further ?


----------



## Patriot

hahoo said:


> out does the sr 90 huh ?
> 
> does it throw further ?





This doesn't surprise me. The Magic Fire is almost certainly well over 100,000 lux, I'm guessing 130,000-150,000 based off the wattage, reflector and size. It also produces more overall light output.


----------



## get-lit

[email protected], that is not a reflector within the reflector, it's a reflection of the reflector itself.


----------



## mohanjude

I spent 2 months contacting various sellers to try and source a 'fire-foxes' enterprise or elite HID torch (this was reviewd on CPF a while ago) . I really wanted the enterprise edition and not the elite. I came across a blank as most suppliers wanted a minimum order of a 100 for the enterprise edition (each at around USD 650!!). I was also informed that a limited run had been done for the cpf equivalent in china. While the Magic Fire Magic Scorpion is not quite the same I think it is not far off. It is a fraction of the price that has been quoted for the elite torch (which is cheaper than the enterpirse) and having used it for several hours I can confirm that it lasts approx 65-70 mins on a full charge of 3100 18650's. This torch could do with several small improvements but I think a new level has been reached in the production of a economical and useful HID light. Hope this will spur the market again.


----------



## Patriot

Just ordered the 5000K version with DHL shipping. Looking forward to doing some comparisons.


----------



## mohanjude

Patriot said:


> Just ordered the 5000K version with DHL shipping. Looking forward to doing some comparisons.


 You are the master of comparisons - enjoyed all your youtube videos. Did you ever get your hands on the Fire-foxes enterprise ?


----------



## Patriot

mohanjude said:


> You are the master of comparisons - enjoyed all your youtube videos. Did you ever get your hands on the Fire-foxes enterprise ?




Thank you kindly. I just enjoy the comparisons but really appreciate the masters like Selfbuilt, HKJ, and others who post all the picture with lots of numbers and charts. :naughty:

Never got my hands on the Fire-foxes or even tried to because there just weren't any practical channels. I actually feel more at ease about the Magic Fire since the price is so reasonable and the packs are non-proprietary. I decided that I would no longer purchase lights with design specific packs unless there was strong dealer support. By "strong" I mean at least several dealers in the US and manufacturers who have been around for several years. Recently, I sold a couple of HID's with weak dealer support or China only support. Although I'm always a bit leery of Chinese ballasts and would ultimately like to have a spare, the battery packs have always been at the top of the failure list for generics. The Magic Fire skirts that issue and like the Wolf Eyes Boxer, the Magic Fire and it's battery carrier will probably stay in my inventory until the ballast goes belly up. Hopefully it will provide many years of service first. :thumbsup:


----------



## Lips

.

*
I think Ma Sha has a Fire-Foxes


They look good! *





Enterprises Edition








Elite Edition








Elite Edition


----------



## Fusion_m8

Thank goodness I decided to hold off buying the Xeccon SSK-33(Microfire K3500R lookalike) a few months ago... The MagicFire looks to be a better performer than the SSK-33 for the same money.


----------



## Patriot

The reflector and bezel on the Fire-Foxes really looks high end. Too bad they weren't easier to get.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

Could any of ya'll (that's Alabama speak for "you guys") comment on the difference between 4300k and 5000k HIDs in terms of perceived throw. I am well familiar with LED lights but so far I only have a Stanely HID. With an LED light the diffence (to me at least) between 5000K and 4300k is not really a big one. The cooler light gives the impression of slightly better throw and overall output. Would this also be the case with HIDs or not?

Thanks.


----------



## Patriot

If the difference truly is only 700K spread, how it looks to the eye is a small change. Often though, the actual difference is more than what's specified on paper, especially in the case of Chinese bulbs. For example a "5000K" bulb might be anything from 5000K to 6000K. You need several examples in order to see if they're consistent. 

It seems that 4300K lights usually give the highest readings on light meters for a given wattage but there are so many variables that it's sort of difficult to track. In the end, it really comes down to preference. I sort of think 4500-5000K is a really great color range and good for everything. 4300K is close enough for me.


----------



## chesterqw

remember to use a smaller capacity cell unless they are really 18mm in diameter.


----------



## Ginseng

Quick question, does the battery carrier work with both flat top and button top cells?

Wilkey


----------



## hahoo

i ask again......
will it be brighter and throw better than my stanley hid ?


----------



## MDJAK

The answer is yes. I just purchased flat top cells and they work fine. (Didn't work in my Tiny Monster). Only slight problem I am having is that the machining of the tube or the carrier could be better in that the carrier is snagging on the way down, in spite of my squeezing the cells tightly inside. 

Is there an oil or something I can safely use to coat the interior?

Just reread your question. Yes, it works with button top also.



Ginseng said:


> Quick question, does the battery carrier work with both flat top and button top cells?
> 
> Wilkey


----------



## MDJAK

Sorry I can't help you there as I don't own a Stanley. But I can tell you that this being my first HID, I'm damn impressed by it. I walked 3 miles in slightly under an hour last night and it never got too hot (in comparison to the heat that comes off my Tiny Monster in and around the head), even around the cooling fins. The throw was very impressive, reaching across a lake to light up trees and homes that had to be 7 football fields away, at least. It also has a nice spread immediately in front. It's just what I was looking for in terms of power, though it leaves me wanting a Polarion badly. But I'm going to wait for the new model that will hopefully come out this year in the form of the P45.



hahoo said:


> i ask again......
> will it be brighter and throw better than my stanley hid ?


----------



## Ginseng

MDJAK said:


> The answer is yes. I just purchased flat top cells and they work fine. (Didn't work in my Tiny Monster). Only slight problem I am having is that the machining of the tube or the carrier could be better in that the carrier is snagging on the way down, in spite of my squeezing the cells tightly inside.
> 
> Is there an oil or something I can safely use to coat the interior?
> 
> Just reread your question. Yes, it works with button top also.


Thank you for the intell!

I would not use oil. I might try rubbing the interfering surfaces with some high quality carnauba wax. 

Wilkey


----------



## Patriot

hahoo said:


> i ask again......
> will it be brighter and throw better than my stanley hid ?




It will likely be a bit brighter than the Stanley but probably won't throw quite as far.


----------



## MDJAK

Wax, huh? Great idea. Thank you. Oh, and here's a picture of it next to my SR90 and some of my other lights which I've accumulated in the past 2 or 3 months since coming upon this hobby. (Surefire's excluded, as those I've owned for quite a while now.)


----------



## Ginseng

I


MDJAK said:


> Wax, huh? Great idea. Thank you. Oh, and here's a picture of it next to my SR90 and some of my other lights which I've accumulated in the past 2 or 3 months since coming upon this hobby. (Surefire's excluded, as those I've owned for quite a while.


Two words:

1) impressive
2) potent!

Wilkey


----------



## MDJAK

Well, I'm not the most mechanically inclined. And I just realized I've been unscrewing the wrong end. :duh2: That's why the spring is bending on top of the battery carrier and is difficult to get in. I was taking off the head instead of the tail cap.


Oh, well, live and learn. Sheesh.

I'm going out with it now, nice and dark, walk with my yellow lab, 3 miles around a nearby lake community. And I'm so nuts, I carry two backup lights in my pockets.


----------



## spaz815

MDJAK said:


> Wax, huh? Great idea. Thank you. Oh, and here's a picture of it next to my SR90 and some of my other lights which I've accumulated in the past 2 or 3 months since coming upon this hobby. (Surefire's excluded, as those I've owned for quite a while now.)



How does the Magic Fire compare to the SR90[h=1][/h]


----------



## Ginseng

MDJAK said:


> Well, I'm not the most mechanically inclined...


That took guts. 

Wilkey


----------



## Sway

spaz815 said:


> How does the Magic Fire compare to the SR90[h=1][/h]



+1 

Inquiring minds want to know, I've been looking at the SR90/91 and Fenix TK70, then the Magic Fire comes along... I know it's apples to oranges but a compact HID alternative is very attractive to me right now but I just can't pull the trigger not knowing how they stack up.

$#@% FLASHLIGHTS!


----------



## mohanjude

I compared the Magic Fire to a friends SR90 and this HID is the same or maybe even slightly better throw. Don't get me wrong the SR90 is a monster of a torch with large spill as well as throw - but the throw on this HID is a very focused beam. If you want throw you can't really beat a HID light. The price of this torch is only slightly more than the rechargable packs on the SR range. So you are getting good value for money and it is quite compact. Mohan


----------



## spaz815

For some reason I can't get my password reset for the marketplace to ask this question. Its been brought up to not use Unprotected cells. When buying the magic fire I asked ric what a good battery would be to purchase as well. He recommend 2 and one of them being the Sanyo Genuine 3.7v 2600 mah 18650's. And these are the battery's I purchased. Well there unprotected. Reading in the marketplace some say not to use unprotected. Why is this? Is it safe to use these battery s with the light? Also what should I be watching for to be safe? One more. How long should these be on charge? Let me add I purchased this charger with the light and batterys http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1225 What is your guys thoughts to use these battery's and charger with the Magic Fire?


----------



## Ginseng

spaz815 said:


> Reading in the marketplace some say not to use unprotected. Why is this?


The most important reason is this: If one of your cells happens to have a lower capacity than the others, and if you run down the string of serial batteries, you could drive it beyond the limits of safe minimum discharge voltage. Drive cells too low (e.g., below 2.5V typical protection cutoff) unpleasant things can happen including permanent reduction of capacity.

Wilkey


----------



## spaz815

Ginseng said:


> The most important reason is this: If one of your cells happens to have a lower capacity than the others,
> Wilkey



Do I have to worry about the batterys blowing up using the light?


----------



## Sway

mohanjude said:


> I compared the Magic Fire to a friends SR90 and this HID is the same or maybe even slightly better throw. Don't get me wrong the SR90 is a monster of a torch with large spill as well as throw - but the throw on this HID is a very focused beam. If you want throw you can't really beat a HID light. The price of this torch is only slightly more than the rechargable packs on the SR range. So you are getting good value for money and it is quite compact. Mohan



Thanks mohan....the MS40W/HID looks to be the budget alternative for me since I'm set-up with 18650's and a few chargers.

Cheers
Kelly


----------



## Fusion_m8

spaz815 said:


> Do I have to worry about the batterys blowing up using the light?



Only if unprotected cells are discharging at differing rates, and one cell is working harder than the other. The risk of failure increases as more cells are connected in series and are discharged at higher loads. Imagine the cyclinders of a car engine, what would happen if each cyclinder wasn't working in balance, with one working harder than the other? The engine would soon fail. The risk of failure increases with the number of cyclinders not working in unison, ie: a dysfunctional 6 cyclinder car would have cause more damage than a dysfunctional 4 cyclinder car.

Coming back to the 4 unprotected cells in series, the same thing would happen if there was no individual protection circuits to prevent individual cells from over discharging at different rates. There are a few threads on CPF and videos on youtube about Lithium cells self destructing due to over discharging. Its not pretty, not to mention the health hazards of having extremely hot and toxic Lithium and other chemicals in contact with your skin or being inhaled, chemical/physical burns and poisoning will occur.


----------



## spaz815

I get it now. Makes sense to me with the car engine comparison. Maybe I should see if ric will let me trade with some other batterys since nothing has been shipped yet.


----------



## Ginseng

spaz815 said:


> I get it now. Makes sense to me with the car engine comparison.


Nice work, Fusion. You wouldn't happen to work in education, would you?

Wilkey


----------



## spaz815

What do you all recommend for Protected Batterys for this light?


----------



## Ginseng

spaz815 said:


> What do you all recommend for Protected Batterys for this light?


When looking for 18650 (or lithium ion in general), you can't ever go wrong with anything from AW. Callie's Kustoms are also well-regarded. This is not a constant high current application so no real need for the IMR cells.

Wilkey


----------



## MDJAK

The biggest difference between the magic and SR 90 is size and ease of carry. Throw is close but the hot spot and corona is much larger on the magic. For example, about 200yds offshore in the lake I walk around is a very small island covered with tall trees. Picture maybe you could park ten cars on it. The SR 90 easily lights up some trees and treetops and very brightly. The magic lights up all the trees. The SR90 is much more tunnel like. I prefer the magic, especially for its smaller size and much better flood.


----------



## spaz815

MDJAK said:


> The biggest difference between the magic and SR 90 is size and ease of carry. Throw is close but the hot spot and corona is much larger on the magic. For example, about 200yds offshore in the lake I walk around is a very small island covered with tall trees. Picture maybe you could park ten cars on it. The SR 90 easily lights up some trees and treetops and very brightly. The magic lights up all the trees. The SR90 is much more tunnel like. I prefer the magic, especially for its smaller size and much better flood.




Thats what I like to hear. This is pretty much what I've been looking for in a light. Thats if I don't mess it up with the batteries I've bought with the light. LOL


----------



## Fusion_m8

I'm keen to see how well this 40w HID performs against my 35w L35. But I'm betting that the L35 will out throw the 40w due to its bigger 100mm reflector. I'd also be interested to see if the 40w puts out more lumens than the 35w L35.


----------



## ma_sha1

Fusion_m8 said:


> Thank goodness I decided to hold off buying the Xeccon SSK-33(Microfire K3500R lookalike) a few months ago... The MagicFire looks to be a better performer than the SSK-33 for the same money.



One of the major difference is the body diameter, 
It's an important ergonomic factor that haven't been mention in this thread.

I find most 3x18650 type of HID body being too fat to hold comfortably, The magic Fire has 4x18650, thus even fatter. 

I think people with smaller hands may soon realize how uncomfortable it may get after holding it for a while. 

SSK-33 is very slim for 3x18650 arrangement. They come in stock at 6x28650,
I had to cut it down to 3x18650. Lots of work, but in the end, it's both shorter & slimmer than magic fire.

I find it much more important to have a slim body than extra 5 watts, that's why I have 3x18650 35W Firefox I, but was never interested in the 4x18650 40W version of Firefox II.


----------



## Ginseng

ma_sha1 said:


> From what I can tell, the SSK-33 uses better components. One of the major difference is the body diameter, magic fire body is fat. I find most 3x18650 type of HID body too fat to hold comfortably, The magic Fire has 4x18650, thus even fatter.
> 
> I think people with smaller hands will soon find out how uncomfortable it may be to hold it for a while.
> 
> SSK-33 is very slim for 3x18650 arrangement. They come in stock at 6x28650,
> I had to cut it down to 3x18650. Lots of work, but in the end, it's both shorter & slimmer than magic fire.
> 
> I find it much more important to have a slim body than extra 5 watts,
> that's why I have 3x18650 35W Firefox I, but not the 4x18650 40W Firefox II.


Right-size is always better than too skinny or too fat, but I do see your point. I look at this as an opportunity to implement a custom strap or grab handle.

If CNQual comes up with a 3-cell unit at a similar price point, I'll be on it, too.

The SSK lights look great, but I'd never want a 6000K CCT HID. Too fatiguing and I don't like the color rendition. But if the SSK-20S came in 4500-5000K, that baby would be mine. 

Wilkey


----------



## MDJAK

I measured around the handle of my magic, my jetbeam rrt3 XML, my tiny monster, and the sr90. They are all withIn half inch of one another. The magic has excellent balance and does not feel fat at all, and I do not have big hands. 

That said, I am within a second of ordering the Abyss. I confessed that to my loving and very understanding wife. She said it is a perfect match to the 2012 BMW X5 I'm getting on Tuesday.


----------



## TEEJ

MDJAK said:


> I measured around the handle of my magic, my jetbeam rrt3 XML, my tiny monster, and the sr90. They are all withIn half inch of one another. The magic has excellent balance and does not feel fat at all, and I do not have big hands.
> 
> That said, I am within a second of ordering the Abyss. I confessed that to my loving and very understanding wife. She said it is a perfect match to the 2012 BMW X5 I'm getting on Tuesday.



I'm not sure how the Abyss matches a BMW X5, but I am sure that I would not care if it did or not anyway.



The wife sounds like the best match of all.


----------



## MDJAK

Yeah, after 32 years together we fit like hand in glove


----------



## Fusion_m8

ma_sha1 said:


> One of the major difference is the body diameter,
> It's an important ergonomic factor that haven't been mention in this thread.
> 
> I find most 3x18650 type of HID body being too fat to hold comfortably, The magic Fire has 4x18650, thus even fatter.
> 
> I think people with smaller hands may soon realize how uncomfortable it may get after holding it for a while.
> 
> SSK-33 is very slim for 3x18650 arrangement. They come in stock at 6x28650,
> I had to cut it down to 3x18650. Lots of work, but in the end, it's both shorter & slimmer than magic fire.
> 
> I find it much more important to have a slim body than extra 5 watts, that's why I have 3x18650 35W Firefox I, but was never interested in the 4x18650 40W version of Firefox II.




I would rather have a body that's slightly oversized and I can decide the quality of the 18650s I use, than a proprietary battery pack with unknown quality control and most likely built down to a price than up to a standard. I remember you mentioned that the SSK-33's batteries were questionable enough for you to modify the battery pack on the SSK-33 you purchased. That really spooked me from buying one. I too wouldn't bother about the 5w difference, its all in writing anyway just like most manufacturer's claims.


----------



## TEEJ

I feel bad for you guys with small hands, that must make buying gloves and picking things up, etc, really hard. I can hold an SR90 like it was a maglite for the most part...and do. Just don't ask me to get the big meats into a small hole, type, etc.



The diameter of the MF should be fine for me at least.


----------



## RichS

I asked this in the dealer's sales thread but didn't get an answer yet. Does anyone know what kind of coating/anodizing the Magic Fire has? Is it paint, type II, type III HA, etc..?


----------



## Patriot

RichS said:


> I asked this in the dealer's sales thread but didn't get an answer yet. Does anyone know what kind of coating/anodizing the Magic Fire has? Is it paint, type II, type III HA, etc..?




HAIII according to the description on his website Rich.


----------



## RichS

Patriot said:


> HAIII according to the description on his website Rich.



Wow..don't know how I missed that - I even looked there before I asked.

Thanks - this is good to know! Especially since mine is shipping today...


----------



## Patriot

RichS said:


> Wow..don't know how I missed that - I even looked there before I asked.
> Thanks - this is good to know! Especially since mine is shipping today...





I've done the same thing many times myself buddy. Nice to know that it's HAIII since a lot of us will probably be using this light on the go. Hoping mine ships soon if it hasn't shipped already. Shipping status has been a bit ambiguous with the seller.


----------



## spaz815

I put my order in on Thursday. After asking Ric ANOTHER question today and made ANOTHER change to my order he said it would be shipped today. I have to say I was sort of a pain (because I didn't know much about the batteries for this light before this) because of changing my order and asking so my questions. I will say Ric has been good to me through the whole deal. So far very good great customer service.


----------



## Wildlands

According to DHL, mine found its way to Cincinatti at around 5:00 Am this morning. Given the that I placed my order on the afternoon of the 22nd, I would say that the shipping is looking great. 

It looks like I will probably have it in time for the snowstorm on Thursday, possibly Friday.

For all those griping about not getting the group buy, them's the breaks. I pulled the trigger when I did, knowing it was still something I wanted at the price it was offered. I'm not going to ask to get a retroactive price discount because I bought too early.


----------



## Patriot

That could be good news for me then since I ordered DHL as well. Still no tracking number though. I'm looking forward to having it in hand so that I can get some feed back posted for others.


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> That could be good news for me then since I ordered DHL as well. Still no tracking number though. I'm looking forward to having it in hand so that I can get some feed back posted for others.



Always like your reviews.


----------



## Wildlands

I got a call from DHL noting that a package was due to be delivered today. I went and checked the website, and I see that it is on its way from Boston. 




16With delivery courierBOSTON, MA - USA11:47 AM 


15Arrived at Delivery Facility in BOSTON - USABOSTON, MA - USA11:33 AM 


14Transferred through BOSTON - USABOSTON, MA - USA8:03 AM 


13Departed Facility in CINCINNATI HUB - USACINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA5:10 AM 


12Clearance processing complete at CINCINNATI HUB - USACINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA4:30 AM 


11Processed at CINCINNATI HUB - USACINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA4:30 AM 


10Arrived at Sort Facility CINCINNATI HUB - USACINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA1:12 AM 




Waybill: 400506XXXX
With delivery courier
Sign up for shipment notifications


Tuesday, February 28, 2012 at 11:47 AM
Origin Service Area:




HONG KONG - HONG KONG - HONG KONG

Destination Service Area:



BOSTON, MA - PORTLAND - USA

Tuesday, February 28, 2012LocationTime 


As a note, I have drooled over many a Patriot posting, his access to some killer lights have made me angry at my wallet. I usually lurk, so this is like talking to a celebrity.


----------



## Patriot

You're too kind guys. I only wish that I had the time, tools and knowledge of member Selfbuilt, HKJ and so many others. 

I'll at least get a couple of beamshots and a video up though.


----------



## kfq269

Greetings Patriot. I've been watching your flashlight reviews on youtube. Great info. Thanks! I'm a corrections officer and I do alot of night work. I work the outer perimeter in a vehicle. Armed of course. Did you purchase the Magic Fire HID yet? Looking for your review. I currently use the sr91 by olight and it is an awesome light. The other night I apprehended and detained 2 males throwing contraband over the perimeter fence. The good thing is the packages they threw got caught in the razor wire. The sr91 came in handy. I would like to upgrade to the sr90 or even better possibly an HID. Any suggestions? Looking for 3000+- lumens tight bright beam and medium spill. With range of course. I Love the polarion but its pricey. Large size is'nt an issue because im in a vehicle. Your guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you. Waiting on that Magic fire review.


----------



## Wildlands

It arrived. I put the Ultrafire 3000mA batteries on the charger. 

First impressions.

Packaging was minimal. Some bubble wrap and tape, but the light appeared no worse for the wear.

When I opened up the package, the light felt solid, well crafted, and really, bluntly elegant. I like the green button, and the tail standing design. In the package was a lanyard as well, which was a pleasant surprise. When I opened up the battery compartment, the orings were well greased. The battery carrier was right there, with the button on it, just under the rubber push button on the tail cap. As I slid the carrier out, I had a little difficulty, as in the area where the batteries would go were 3 silicon O-rings which caught on the springs and the wall of the light, and a replacement button for the switch. Having free replacements was also a nice surprise.

Gently pulling these out allowed me to remove the battery carrier. The carrier is made of very solid copper, PCB board, plates and rods. I felt like this could be safely dropped and still retain functionality. The springs are RUGGED! The contacts are solid and wide. I did see a small scratch on the PCB board up near the button, but other than that, no manufacturing items.

EDIT: Noticed the anodizing was scraped around around the lens bezel, looks like a grinder tic'ed it. You can see it in the photo on the post below at bottom. Minor issue for me, but notable. 

I can't wait to fire it up, but I want to make sure the batteries are up to full equal charges.

Without turning it on, I can say I am very impressed, and very happy with the purchase so far, but we'll see at dark!


----------



## Wildlands

A few pics, if I can.....


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> You're too kind guys. I only wish that I had the time, tools and knowledge of member Selfbuilt, HKJ and so many others.
> 
> I'll at least get a couple of beamshots and a video up though.



That's enough.


The charts and graphs and all are their bailiwick. Video and pics with the lights shining around to see what it all looks like in real life is what YOU do.

Think of everyone as supplementing each other.


----------



## TEEJ

Wildlands said:


> A few pics, if I can.....




Nice!

So far so good!

Batteries charged yet?

:devil:


----------



## Patriot

Thanks Wildlands! Really amazing size seeing it next to the Stanley. Thanks for the report! :thumbsup:


----------



## RichS

Awesome - thanks for the initial impressions Wildlands! I'm even more excited to get my hands on this now...So how comfortable is it to hold? Is it thicker than you expected?

I've got four AW 3100mAH protected 18650's on the way from Lighthound. I hope they fit...


----------



## spaz815

Thanks for the pics beside the Stanley. I hope the beam isn't as blue as the Stanley. You just got me excited to get this light. Hope it was shipped today like Ric said it would.


----------



## Ginseng

Right on. Thanks for sharing your unboxing, well, unwrapping with us.

Wilkey


----------



## kturnbull

RichS said:


> Awesome - thanks for the initial impressions Wildlands! I'm even more excited to get my hands on this now...So how comfortable is it to hold? Is it thicker than you expected?
> 
> I've got four AW 3100mAH protected 18650's on the way from Lighthound. I hope they fit...




Hey Rich,

Can you please let us know if those fit? Don't want to order them myself if not =)


----------



## mohanjude

kturnbull said:


> Hey Rich,
> 
> Can you please let us know if those fit? Don't want to order them myself if not =)



I have tried this with all manner of cells that are available on the market AW3100, eagletac 3100, 4Greer 3100, Panasonic OEM 3100 (green cells sold on ebay) - they all fit. Unless you are very unlucky and buy a cell that is not 18650 (ie diameter is way off 700mm or length is 19mm) they will all fit. Just be careful to make sure the cells are seated properly and you drop the battery carrier vertically down or else you will scratch the cover of the batteries on the sharp edge of the tube

Mohan


----------



## Wildlands

The batteries didn't finish charging until after 1 AM last night. 

I was excited, and got up around 3 AM to try the light with fresh batteries. I put all 4 Ultrafire 3000 mA in the carrier, and went to slide it into the flashlight ,and peeled all 4 labels back on the batteries on the edge of the tube when trying to insert the carrier. That sucked, and I should have waited until I was awake today to do it, and I probably could have avoided destroying those batteries. I don't think they will fit, so I scrounged up 4 AW 2600, and put those in the charger, and tried them this morning. Tolerances are tight, but they went into the compartment in the sleeve without dinging the battery wrapping. 

When you turn it on, the beam is not immediately impressive. It starts a little blue-ish and comes up to the 4500k color within 12 seconds. The beam is not as tight as the Stanley HID, but it is a lot cleaner, fewer artifacts. When it gets up to temps, it is really quite impressively bright. 

I was kind of bummed about the batteries so I didn't take any pictures last night. I'll work on them tonight.


----------



## MDJAK

Same thing happened to One of my batteries. It's even tough to pull the carrier out. I have to twist it by the switch. Not optimal. But light is real nice.


----------



## Wildlands

RichS said:


> Awesome - thanks for the initial impressions Wildlands! I'm even more excited to get my hands on this now...So how comfortable is it to hold? Is it thicker than you expected?
> 
> I've got four AW 3100mAH protected 18650's on the way from Lighthound. I hope they fit...



Hey Rich,

First off, I have big hands. I usually get 2XL gloves. 

In a normal relaxed hold, my thumb just touches my middle finger when holding this light, giving me a solid grip on this beast. It is the thickest flashlight I own, but it feels like it was made for my hand. The gnurling is noticeable, but not abrasive. The balance is very nice, this is not a lightweight light. When using it, I actually hold a little higher along the start of the cooling fins, which surprised me with how comfortable it was given the increasing diameter at the fins. 

For me, it works.


----------



## RichS

Wildlands said:


> Hey Rich,
> 
> First off, I have big hands. I usually get 2XL gloves.
> 
> In a normal relaxed hold, my thumb just touches my middle finger when holding this light, giving me a solid grip on this beast. It is the thickest flashlight I own, but it feels like it was made for my hand. The gnurling is noticeable, but not abrasive. The balance is very nice, this is not a lightweight light. When using it, I actually hold a little higher along the start of the cooling fins, which surprised me with how comfortable it was given the increasing diameter at the fins.
> 
> For me, it works.



Thanks so much for the info! I usually wear a large glove, but the fingers are a bit long, so we'll see how I do with the size. I had a Wolf-Eyes Boxer 24W previously, and it fit my hand fine, but was a 3x18650 light instead of 4. Anyone here that has had both of these that can give a comparison?

It sounds like by some of the comments it would be a good idea to lightly sand/polish the inside rim of the battery tube opening to avoid tearing the battery wrapping. Shouldn't be too hard with some 1000/2000 grit sandpaper I wouldn't think. Anyone try this with theirs yet?

Come on DHL........


----------



## Wildlands

Ok, just to add some more info. Here's a bit more perspective on the size of the Magic Fire.






It's daytime, but I wanted to get some shots of the light beam and cone. I'm using my projection screen as the back ground, and I am not really controlling the distance other than I needed to stay close to the camera to take a pic, and it was on a tripod, so all lights were shown at the screen at around 8-9 feet away.

Here's the Thrunight Catapult V2 SST50 for a comparison.





The Stanley HID.





And, the Magic Fire.






Just another comparison shot of the UltraFire Wf-008 thrower.


----------



## Patriot

Seems to be a very decent beam without too much wire shadow. 

Thanks for posting more pictures. It is indeed small for a 40W light.


----------



## Ginseng

Oh yeah...and such a little fatty.


----------



## Fusion_m8

Got my light today, tried to fit Xtar 2600s in the light, the length will fit in the carrier, but cells were too fat to fit in the light. I tried the Xtar 2400s, same story. MAJOR BUMMER! I tried Trustfire 2400mah "flames", cells just fit but the 4A current draw keeps triggering the PCB. MAJOR BUMMERx2!!! Thank goodness I've got some AW IMR18650s which will fit and fire up the light, but capacity sucks. Guess I'll have to buy some Panasonic CGR18650s which have 2100mah capacity even at 4A draw.

**Update** : I used AW IMR cells and the light won't come on. The lamp only flickers slightly then wouldn't light up at all. The same thing happened with the Trustfire 2400 "flames". I guess I cannot say for certain that the PCB on the Trustfire "flames" are to blame. I have just emailed CNQ customer service to see what their response will be. I hope they have good customer support. This is the 1st time any of my lights have experienced a DOA. Anyone here have at experience with CNQ's warranty and returns? Are they good to deal with?


----------



## Wildlands

My light exhibited those symptoms when I accidentally had one of the batteries reversed in the battery carrier, but worked fine once I straightened that out.

I got a chance to use it in the snowstorm last night. It is simply amazing when up and running. It felt more powerful than a car headlamp by a factor of 2 or 3. I worried about pointing it near traffic patterns, but it lit up the field I was wandering like a better color rendition sodium light. 

I love this beast.


----------



## 2100

Fusion_m8, have to remember that HIDs usually would have a higher startup current, so during startup it might trigger the PCB. That said the TF Flames 2400 are actually not too bad and they would not trip at 4A. The IMRs definitely would work, do check if the springs are long enough and exert enough tension so that the connection is good?

PS. Just another long shot, you did measure individual cell voltages right? Also the cells measure ok in current at the tail with your other XM-L lights? (you do have LEDs right?)


----------



## 2100

I read ULtrafire cells. Do not use the Ultrafire cells in this light, those in budgetlightforums have done tests on most budget cells and only the TF Flames can make it, namely the TF Flames 2400 and TF Flames 3000. If you don't believe me, you have to believe HKJ and our hobby chargers, if you don't believe HKJ then i really don't know what kind of super league batteries/tests are you looking for here.  

Bummber that the XTAR 2600s cannot fit. But yes, my XTAR 2600 can't fit into my Jetbeam RRT-2.

There is one cell which yuo can try if interested...that is the Panasonic CGR18650*CH*. Check youtube, you can dead short it without going poof. 2100mAh i think....it's like half LiMn and half LiCo. Actually the NCR18650A also won't go poof, but those are higher in resistance. Sanyo UR18650FM are extremely low in resistance but unprotected and nobody has tried dead shorting it (lower than my NCR18650 and NCR18650A which in laymay terms are the 2900s and 3100s respectively). HKJ has also reviewed some OEM protected NCR18650A and found them to be good, 11A tripping current IIRC.


----------



## Fusion_m8

2100: 

Yeah, checked each cell with a DMM, checked the battery carrier to make sure its not the switch, got a 16.4v reading when on, got 2.21v reading when switch is off. 

Yes, I did mention about getting some Panasonic CGR18650s before in my earlier posts.


----------



## Patriot

Fusion_m8 said:


> 2100:
> 
> Yes, I did mention about getting some Panasonic CGR18650s before in my earlier posts.




Where's the best place to purchase these? A Google shopping search brought up very little, possible because the designation was too specific.

Thanks guys.


----------



## BVH

Patriot, Post 138 by Fusion m8 over on the MP thread.


----------



## Fusion_m8

Patriot said:


> Where's the best place to purchase these? A Google shopping search brought up very little, possible because the designation was too specific.
> 
> Thanks guys.



Hi Patriot:

I'm getting mine from International Outdoor. Hank is a great guy to deal with.


----------



## Patriot

I really appreciate the help fellas!


----------



## 2100

Fusion_m8 said:


> 2100:
> 
> Yeah, checked each cell with a DMM, checked the battery carrier to make sure its not the switch, got a 16.4v reading when on, got 2.21v reading when switch is off.
> 
> Yes, I did mention about getting some Panasonic CGR18650s before in my earlier posts.



Yeah, haha so you know those cell, also make sure you get the CGR18650CH (grey) and not the CGR18650CG (LiCo, green wrapper)....of course it's not that the CG would not work. int-outdoor is ok, i've got quite a few lights from them. Callie Kustoms carry them as well if you want them fast. Here's from Callie Kustoms : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaosGRX9BaQ


----------



## spaz815

Anyone else get there lights yet?


----------



## TEEJ

According to DHL...Mines being sorted, then leaving hong kong, then being accepted at hong kong, then sorted, and leaving hong kong, then accepted at hong kong, then being sorted at hong kong, and now its leaving again...?


----------



## BVH

Last tracking entry is "Departed from Destination Transit Centre" - no change from the 29th. I assume my particular Destination Centre is Los Angeles -180 miles distant, which should have seen in here yesterday. Maybe today.


----------



## Ginseng

Nope. My unit was picked up by DHL on March 1 so it's probably early next week.

Wilkey


----------



## Patriot

TEEJ said:


> According to DHL...Mines being sorted, then leaving hong kong, then being accepted at hong kong, then sorted, and leaving hong kong, then accepted at hong kong, then being sorted at hong kong, and now its leaving again...?



I'm going to guess it's headed for hong kong......

By the way, mine shows the same status. 

To answer Spaz, it might be a while before we get more of these in members hands but I'm guessing that BVH will probably get his last since he ordered first and paid the most.....:huh:


----------



## TEEJ

I think they're using mine to patrol the docks and ships at the hong kong shipping facility...so they go from the dock to the boat to the dock to the boat....


----------



## Ginseng

Patriot said:


> To answer Spaz, it might be a while before we get more of these in members hands but I'm guessing that BVH will probably get his last since he ordered first and paid the most.....:huh:


Doh! I know it sucks to be an early adopter but that's haaaaaaarsh.

Wilkey


----------



## BVH

Poor GChand. He paid full price and ordered on the 9th.

No matter what, I'm still looking forward to getting it in-hand and doing some comparison shots, maybe putting them in my "Medium Iron" thread with the L35, N30 and many other lights. If at all possible, depending on how the bulb integrates with the ballast/igniter, I'll try to determine Watts to the bulb. I know someone already posted that it settles down to 2.8 amps input. If the calc is done using Nominal pack Voltage (14.8) then we get 41.4 Watts Input power. Based on the average 80% efficiency, that would be less than 40 to the bulb. But if it was done with a higher Voltage, say 15.5V, and the 2.8 was 2.87 then it's 43.4 watts. There needs to be about 50 Watts input to get 40 watts to the bulb. Actually, do we know if this light is rated in Watts to the bulb or input Watts? I don't remember reading or seeing it either way?


----------



## spaz815

Just wondered. Mine just today said "Handover to Airline" In Singapore. This is the first time I've order anything outside the US. So I guess that means its in the plane? I don't know. Hope we'll all be happy with the end results.


----------



## BVH

My light was wrapped the same as the one previously shown here. It arrived in excellent condition, no damage. It looks very nice and feels good in my hand – I wear XL gloves. First glance was into the business end. I’ll make some comparisons with my older Oracle 24 Watt. The MS has a tiny bulb, reminiscent of the Welch Allyn SolarArc bulb when the outer layer of glass was removed. The Oracle has a full size bulb. Unfortunately, the MS bulb is about 1/16” off center and it shows in the spot on a wall. The reflector is attached to the outer removable bezel however, since the rear reflector hole is so small, some serious bending of the return wire will take place and damage to the reflector surface could take place if the unit is removed. It’s tight enough of a fit that I will not remove the reflector to straighten the bulb for fear of breaking the wire or damaging the reflector. It was probably nudged into its’ off-center position by the installation of the bezel so reflector removal and straightening of the bulb will probably be useless.

I got the 5000K color bulb and I would say that it is somewhere around halfway between 4300 and 5000K in comparison to some of my other lights. It has a slightly pinkish hue as do the L35 and N30. 

I unscrewed the tailcap and carefully removed the spares and carrier. I felt the rear of the barrel and sure enough, there's enough of a ridge to inhibit insertion of a loaded carrier. I initially tried some 400 paper and it would have taken a while so I very carefully used an old HSS, ¼ lathe tool bit’s edge to go around and scrape off the ridge. I then finished with the 400 paper. Insertion was much easier – although even the little oval shaped AW sticker on top of the red wrapping in the “wrong” place, will make it more difficult.

I loaded the carrier in, screwed on the cap, pushed the button and “presto”, it lit right up. First impression is that it looks promising based on the Oracle comparison. But there was a noticeable dimming when the warm up boost terminated. Not like the Stanley, though. But it raised my curiosity about power levels. 

OK, enough of white wall target practice. Let’s take some measurements. There’s no way for me to measure power to the bulb due to the return wire issue mentioned about so I’ll have to be content with input power measurements reduced by 20%. Here’s a video (I’m learning from Patriot) of the light being started and it’s complete warmup.







As you can guess, I was disappointed with 35.5 Input Watts results. ADDED: Watts = Volts x's Amps in this case - 2.373 Amps x's 14.99 Volts = 35.57 Watts for the first test and 2.355 Amps x's 15.45 Volts = 36.38 Watts for the second test and 2.25 Amps x's 15.6 Volts = 35.41 Watts for the 3rd test. (Since the Mastec PS has displays only tenths not hundredths, I used 2.25 instead of 2.2 as an estimate)  Remove 20% for ballast efficiency factor and power to the bulb is around 28.5 in the first test and 29.1 Watts in the second. Input power would need to be in the neighborhood of 50 watts for a 40 Watt output. The 1-hour run time (on 2900 or 3100 cells) makes more sense to me now. 

OK now for the beamshots at 350 Yards

Oracle 24 Watt - not really a usable light at 350 Yards - too floody with small reflector








Magic Scorpion - not a really usable light at 350 Yards - too floody with small reflector







N30 - Usable at 350 







L35 - usable at 350 Yards







46 Watt Amondotech 3153 (POB)


----------



## Lips

Lips said:


> .
> .
> 
> No way the Magic Fire should be able to compete with the best but the competition should be keeping everybody on their toes! My guess is the reflector is too shallow for a tight enough throw beam and the 10 - 15 sec warm up time is old news. *Probably underpowered too at 40w consumption power instead of too-the-bulb power*. All guesses until the fellows get their lights soon! The light design looks like it uses the same round ballast as the mass produced HID's on ebay. The seller says he has spare bulbs on the way so maybe these are different as I remember the bulbs on the mass produced ebay HID's being built into the ballast and not user replaceable. Hopefully these will surprise on the upside so waiting for you guys to report back!
> 
> 
> .



Thanks for the test, video and getting the wife to help out!

Can't keep up with the N30 or L35 is just too underpowered for me... 29 watts. Instant on with LED seems like a better solution for close in light...

Anyway to take a peek at the ballast design to see if it's the canister type. 


.


----------



## mohanjude

BVH

I get 2.8amp draw vs your 2.3amp draw. Do you know why there is a discrepancy. I directly wired it in series on my fluke 189.


----------



## BVH

That's a significant difference. Sometimes when I charging or discharging cells with either my Schulze or PL8 chargers, I'll clamp on and verify, and the Amprobe is always within a tenth or less. It had better be for what it costs!! I might try putting my Fluke in-line tomorrow to see what it reads. Also, if your pack voltage was below mine at that particular time, Amps would be higher as this is a regulated ballast. Volts down-Amps up to maintain regulated Watts (for those that may not know) Were you reading Volts at the same time as your Amp reading or maybe you have just the one meter to work with?


----------



## Patriot

Really great video BVH! You had all of the relevant information plainly visible during the warm up. Seems to warm up really quickly which is great! On the downside, the run amps. Seems to throw reasonably well for a small reflector 30W light but of course even the POB looks like a maxabeam in comparison. I'm eager to receive mine. You've done the hard work so I'm just hook mine up to the integrating bathroom again.


----------



## ma_sha1

Sorry to see the test results, but I am not entirely surprised, it's no Firefox. 

The light is produced by a guy on Chinese flashlight site shoudian.com, with a nick name "MeiTwui" (pretty leg). The previous version was known as "MeiTwui 299", a 35W HID that sells for 299 RMB(~$60), it was a usable light, but also the cheapest 35W HID ever sold. 

This is the "Pretty Leg" II, targeting (copying) FireFox II on size, power , lamp mounting, bulb style (no envelope) & battery configuration but at 1/4 the price. The price is amazing, so is the unavoidable evidence of cost cutting, the ballast can not compare with that from the Firefox, the Firefox was targeting enthusiasts with the best components possible. 

Pretty Leg 299 was very successful, so will be the Pretty leg II. The light will be a good tool for practical users, not so much as to bring joy to enthusiasts.


----------



## Ginseng

BVH said:


> My light was wrapped the same as the one previously shown here...


BVH,
I'm glad your unit arrived. So I guess the question is: are you satisfied with the price/performance of this unit. I'm getting the impression that it's a bit underwhelming, even at this price. In any case, thank you very much for the informative "first look."





ma_sha1 said:


> Sorry to see the test results, but I am not entirely surprised, it's no Firefox.
> ...
> The light will be a good tool for practical users, not so much as to bring joy to enthusiasts.



Well, if the Fire-Fox were broadly available, that would be the unit under test, wouldn't it? :thinking: It's nice that you knew all about this light, but now we're investigating it hands-on ourselves. I am a practical user so unless my unit turns out to be utter junk, I'll find a place for it. Now if you've got a source for the Fire-Fox, let's talk. 

Wilkey


----------



## MDJAK

I appreciate very much all the input here, the tests, video, etc. You guys do great work. I've had mine for about 2 weeks now, and my primary use, as I've said, is night walks with my dog, 3 miles, on very lightly traveled roads which are very dark, around a lake community. For that purpose, it's a great light. I've come to realize it does not throw as far as my SR90, but it floods better and comes close to its throw, at least to my eyes.

Is it cheaply made? Yes. Is it cheap in price? Yes. For what it is, I like it. Am I dying for a Polarion? HELL YEAH!!!!!


----------



## BVH

Ginseng said:


> BVH,
> I'm glad your unit arrived. So I guess the question is: are you satisfied with the price/performance of this unit. I'm getting the impression that it's a bit underwhelming, even at this price. In any case, thank you very much for the informative "first look."
> 
> 
> Well, if the Fire-Fox were broadly available, that would be the unit under test, wouldn't it? :thinking: It's nice that you knew all about this light, but now we're investigating it hands-on ourselves. I am a practical user so unless my unit turns out to be utter junk, I'll find a place for it. Now if you've got a source for the Fire-Fox, let's talk.
> 
> Wilkey



It's underwhelming only because it was touted as a 40 Watt light in a small, conventional format and it's not anywhere near 40 Watts output. Not to beat a dead horse but...At $180 + 30 shipping, $210.00 I'd probably not have bought it had I known what I know now. The 24 Watt (if it is) Oracle (because I already had it) would have served the purpose for a conventional flashlight style, walk the dog, go for a long night walk, 150 Yard HID. In fact, the Oracle has been in my truck for just a little over a year without having been used or the case opened up. I measured battery voltage before use yesterday and it was still at 12.3V. But they are the original Sanyo 2900 NPP cells I got off Ebay and retrofitted into the pack. Back to this light... $180 shipped as many of you got it for, I think is a fair deal for a very nice looking and feeling (in the hand), 150 Yard HID light. It should be an excellent go-to light for around the house, camping, general uses. It can be de-focused a little making it useful for closer-in tasks too. But be careful when screwing down the bezel, I believe you can go so far as to achieve glass window contact with the bulb and maybe even beyond.

Ma_Sha, have you or anyone else measured the FireFox input and/or output?


----------



## Ginseng

BVH said:


> It's underwhelming only because it was touted as a 40 Watt light in a small, conventional format and it's not anywhere near 40 Watts output. Not to beat a dead horse but...At $180 + 30 shipping, $210.00 I'd probably not have bought it had I known what I know now. The 24 Watt (if it is) Oracle (because I already had it) would have served the purpose for a conventional flashlight style, walk the dog, go for a long night walk, 150 Yard HID. In fact, the Oracle has been in my truck for just a little over a year without having been used or the case opened up.
> ...
> Back to this light... $180 shipped as many of you got it for, I think is a fair deal for a very nice looking and feeling (in the hand), 150 Yard HID light. It should be an excellent go-to light for around the house, camping, general uses.


I grok. That's the crux of it then. If this is one's only light of this type and at the right price, it's a reasonable use-light. The issue of quoted v rated output power is a separate thing but bears on expectations and judgment of value. I suppose we've come to expect some degree of spec-inflation from mainland providers. Although this is not necessarily always the case.

Wilkey


----------



## mohanjude

ma_sha1 said:


> Sorry to see the test results, but I am not entirely surprised, it's no Firefox.
> 
> The light is produced by a guy on Chinese flashlight site shoudian.com, with a nick name "MeiTwui" (pretty leg). The previous version was known as "MeiTwui 299", a 35W HID that sells for 299 RMB(~$60), it was a usable light, but also the cheapest 35W HID ever sold.
> 
> This is the "Pretty Leg" II, targeting (copying) FireFox II on size, power , lamp mounting, bulb style (no envelope) & battery configuration but at 1/4 the price. The price is amazing, so is the unavoidable evidence of cost cutting, the ballast can not compare with that from the Firefox, the Firefox was targeting enthusiasts with the best components possible.
> 
> Pretty Leg 299 was very successful, so will be the Pretty leg II. The light will be a good tool for practical users, not so much as to bring joy to enthusiasts.



ma_sha1

Where do you get this info from ? So funny ... now I can boast to my mates that I have a Pretty Leg 2.

BVH

I do have 2 DMM - I checked the Voltage drop at the time to see how the cells were coping. They were fine and holding around 3.9V as they were fully charged and almost brand new AW 3100 cells.

Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk


----------



## TEEJ

DHL Says my Pretty Leg 2 is in Cincinnati right now.


----------



## MDJAK

As I'm not one that understands the tests run, when you way it's nowhere near 40 watts, can you tell me how many watts it is? I was looking at the measuring devices in your video but don't know what I was seeing. Thank you.

mark



BVH said:


> It's underwhelming only because it was touted as a 40 Watt light in a small, conventional format and it's not anywhere near 40 Watts output. Not to beat a dead horse but...At $180 + 30 shipping, $210.00 I'd probably not have bought it had I known what I know now. The 24 Watt (if it is) Oracle (because I already had it) would have served the purpose for a conventional flashlight style, walk the dog, go for a long night walk, 150 Yard HID. In fact, the Oracle has been in my truck for just a little over a year without having been used or the case opened up. I measured battery voltage before use yesterday and it was still at 12.3V. But they are the original Sanyo 2900 NPP cells I got off Ebay and retrofitted into the pack. Back to this light... $180 shipped as many of you got it for, I think is a fair deal for a very nice looking and feeling (in the hand), 150 Yard HID light. It should be an excellent go-to light for around the house, camping, general uses. It can be de-focused a little making it useful for closer-in tasks too. But be careful when screwing down the bezel, I believe you can go so far as to achieve glass window contact with the bulb and maybe even beyond.
> 
> Ma_Sha, have you or anyone else measured the FireFox input and/or output?


----------



## MDJAK

Also, for instance, the light I want and am considering buying, the Polarion Abyss, which states it is 35 and 45 watts, is that a true rating? Can I expect the Abyss to blow it out of the "water" so to speak, no pun intended?


----------



## TEEJ

If the Abyss DIDN'T blow it out of the water, I'd be surprised...and its not JUST watts that make a light work either, there's the lens, reflector, circuitry, and so forth...that all work to make the light work better, and longer, etc.

If you have ~$1,000 budget, you'd BETTER do a better job than you'd do on a $100 budget, and so forth.


----------



## Helmut.G

MDJAK said:


> As I'm not one that understands the tests run, when you way it's nowhere near 40 watts, can you tell me how many watts it is? I was looking at the measuring devices in your video but don't know what I was seeing. Thank you.
> 
> mark


Power is Current times Voltage.
Using the values in the video it's slightly less than 36W into the ballast, and going from typical ballast efficiencies that would be less than 30W into the bulb.


----------



## TEEJ

Helmut.G said:


> Power is Current times Voltage.
> Using the values in the video it's slightly less than 36W into the ballast, and going from typical ballast efficiencies that would be less than 30W into the bulb.




Hmmm, that means it might be a candidate for mods.


----------



## BVH

MDJAK, sorry, I should have put the calculation in instead of just the result. I added a line in the post.

I also re-did the test with my Fluke in-line Ammeter instead of the induction Amprobe. Pretty much the same result - 36+ Watts input. New video is just under original video in my original test post.


----------



## TEEJ

BVH said:


> MDJAK, sorry, I should have put the calculation in instead of just the result. I added a line in the post.
> 
> I also re-did the test with my Fluke in-line Ammeter instead of the induction Amprobe. Pretty much the same result - 36+ Watts input. New video is just under original video in my original test post.



Do you think the claimed light output is in line with the true performance, or do you think the claimed out put will prove to be an (optimistic) mathematical product of the assumed wattage, etc?


----------



## mohanjude

I remeassured my amp draw and it is still 2.8amps with 4.2v batts. There may varation in the Ballast which may explain the difference of 20%.

Modding is not cheap as I recently purchased a bunch of Solarc Ballasts and the 36W Ballast is more expensive than this complete flashlight.

mohan

Sent from my ViewPad7 using Tapatalk


----------



## BVH

That is a huge variation if this is the case. I assume your batts are not the full 4.2V (16.8V pack) each while under load at about the 30 - 35 second mark? I'm guessing they sag to 3.9x or so as mine did in the second test. In that test, the pack was a full 16.8V, 4.2 per cell at the start and at the 30 second mark, were 3.92 per cell, 15.7V for the pack.



EDIT: Adding another video using a Mastec 30V, 50 Amp variable regulated power supply for power instead of a battery pack. About the same results. As I say in the video, the Voltage number to be used for the final calculation is on the Fluke, not the PS because of the In-Line Schottky Diode consums precisely .5V (hence the reason for the two different Voltage numbers in the video)


----------



## BVH

TEEJ said:


> Do you think the claimed light output is in line with the true performance, or do you think the claimed out put will prove to be an (optimistic) mathematical product of the assumed wattage, etc?



No, look how close the MS beam shot is to the Oracle 24 Watt. Both use the same size reflector so that's one variable out of the picture. To me, the MS shot is just a touch brighter than the Oracle - representative of 5 Watts or so in my estimation. Look how it is nowhere near the N30 or L35. Granted, both the N30 and L35 have larger reflectors but they are supposedly 10 Watts less in power. Everything points to my light performing just as the test results show - about 30 Watts, give or take.


----------



## mohanjude

BVH said:


> That is a huge variation if this is the case. I assume your batts are not the full 4.2V (16.8V pack) each while under load at about the 30 - 35 second mark? I'm guessing they sag to 3.9x or so as mine did in the second test. In that test, the pack was a full 16.8V, 4.2 per cell at the start and at the 30 second mark, were 3.92 per cell, 15.7V for the pack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Adding another video using a Mastec 30V, 50 Amp variable regulated power supply for power instead of a battery pack. About the same results. As I say in the video, the Voltage number to be used for the final calculation is on the Fluke, not the PS because of the In-Line Schottky Diode consums precisely .5V (hence the reason for the two different Voltage numbers in the video)



As I said before mine read 3.9v on full load even after 4 .30 minutes. They hold the voltage well. I did not bother to meassure for any longer as the amp draw was steady and there was no point. To check this I tried the same test with a 8amp lipo cell (4S) that I use in my RC Cars (rated at 30C - so can discharge 240amps without sagging) fully charged at 16.8V and the battery voltage did not sag (4.1v) and the amp draw was near identical. So the amp draw is not related to the voltage drop.


I can only assume that the Ballast I have is drawing more amps - whether that equates to more ligh output I don't know.


----------



## hahoo

pics are taken at diff exposure times........
2 sec difference to be exact..
makes a huge difference in light output.......


----------



## BVH

I tried to find that info last night before posting but could not figure it out. How do you do it?

I took 2 different exposures of each light so I could pick the final setting for all pics that gave me the actual look closest to what I saw. I'll go back once I know how to find the info and correct them.


----------



## mohanjude

BVH said:


> I tried to find that info last night before posting but could not figure it out. How do you do it?
> 
> I took 2 different exposures of each light so I could pick the final setting for all pics that gave me the actual look closest to what I saw. I'll go back once I know how to find the info and correct them.



If you right click the picture and look under properties. 

I now get around this by putting the camera into full manual mode and keeping the shutter, aperture and ISO the same when doing comparisons


----------



## BVH

That's what I did last night and just now (right click) and I don't see a PROPERTIES (using Win XP) I've also got Photoshop, can I see it in there somewhere?

Ahhh, found it when right clicking on the image in Explorer and clicking advanced.


----------



## RichS

hahoo said:


> pics are taken at diff exposure times........
> 2 sec difference to be exact..
> makes a huge difference in light output.......


Wow, I was pretty bummed seeing the extreme difference in the beamshots until you pointed this out hahoo. I've done what I consider my share of beamshots, and two seconds can add an insane amount of perceived difference from one light to the next. The ONLY way to do beamshots as a means of relative output comparison is to lock all settings - ESPECIALLY the exposure duration. I can make a stock Maglite look like a hotwired beast by increasing the exposure time. Doesn't mean it's real...


----------



## Ginseng

mohanjude said:


> If you right click the picture and look under properties.
> 
> I now get around this by putting the camera into full manual mode and keeping the shutter, aperture and ISO the same when doing comparisons


It's in the image EXIF information.

Wilkey


----------



## Ginseng

Looks like the Oracle and the Scorpion are both directly comparable as are the other three. However, the last three will seem brighter as a group since their exposure time is 1/6 of a second as opposed to 1/8 of a second for the first two. 

Wilkey


----------



## BVH

Fixed. There is more difference between the Oracle and MS now. It actually looks more accurately representative of the 6 or 7 Watt difference between the O and MS whereas before, they looked too close. All photos are 6 sec, and F2.7 now. My apologies to everyone.


----------



## BVH

Ginseng said:


> Looks like the Oracle and the Scorpion are both directly comparable as are the other three. However, the last three will seem brighter as a group since their exposure time is 1/6 of a second as opposed to 1/8 of a second for the first two.
> 
> Wilkey



Wilkey, when I just checked again, they all show 6 sec and 2.7. Not sure what you mean 1/6 and 1/8 second?


----------



## Ginseng

BVH said:


> Wilkey, when I just checked again, they all show 6 sec and 2.7. Not sure what you mean 1/6 and 1/8 second?


That was before you loaded the matching images. Here's what the 1/8 and 1/6 shots look like side-by-side.

Okay, let's try this again. The Oracle shots.







Wilkey


----------



## BVH

OK, got it, difference existed before I updated correct images. But the one thing I still don't quite get is the "1.6" and "1/8" digits. All shots were either 6 or 8 seconds, none were in fractions of seconds or 1.6 seconds unless I took one and didn't know it.


----------



## BVH

Double post.


----------



## Ginseng

Doh! That's my error. I'm so used to exposures under a second. I screwed that all up. Actually the image you posted originally appears to have been at 6 seconds. Same as the second. I'm just pulling this from the image information. The only original image that differed was the 8 second exposure of the Oracle. So I guess that explains why the Scorpion before and after images look pretty much identical. That means it's comparable to the last three in the set. 

I apologize for the goof. I'm trying to do this while at the same time getting my kids ready for bed, and my wife got back from her class. Guess my concentration just wasn't there.

There is, however, a noticeable difference between the two Oracle shots.

Wilkey


----------



## spaz815

Not to get off the subject. But my package is  Inbound Into Customs. Is that good or does it mean that there holding it for some reason?


----------



## Ginseng

spaz815 said:


> Not to get off the subject. But my package is  Inbound Into Customs. Is that good or does it mean that there holding it for some reason?


It means that Customs and Border Protection have redirected your package on suspicion of contraband such as Cuban cigars, endangered Singaporean fox bats, or methamphetamine.






Or, more likely, that it's on its way through to you once it clears.

Wilkey


----------



## Ginseng

Here's a comparison of all five lights.






And a link to the full size image: Clickie

The weirdish thing about the Oracle and Scorpion shots is that the Scorpion lights up the immediate foreground worse than but the intermediate shrubbery better than the Oracle. In fact, this pattern is different than all of the other four lights.

Wilkey

PS. BVH, I worked up these manipulations of these images of yours to make comparisons easier for those following this wave of purchases. Of course you retain all rights and if you request, I will delete them.


----------



## BVH

Wilkey, thanks for the explanation. I've never been a photography and camera buff but know enough to be dangerous and thought I was missing something simple. I wonder if the bulb hot spot not being in the center of the first corona has something to do with the phenomenon you mention. Thanks for putting those images side by side. It makes it so much easier to compare.


----------



## BVH

spaz815 said:


> Not to get off the subject. But my package is  Inbound Into Customs. Is that good or does it mean that there holding it for some reason?



Mine went to customs but went right thru quickly.


----------



## Ginseng

BVH said:


> Wilkey, thanks for the explanation. I've never been a photography and camera buff but know enough to be dangerous and thought I was missing something simple. I wonder if the bulb hot spot not being in the center of the first corona has something to do with the phenomenon you mention. Thanks for putting those images side by side. It makes it so much easier to compare.


That's certainly plausible. If you rotated the torch around its axis by 180 degrees and it went away or looked more like the others, that would be a good clue that it's related to the off-centeredness of the bulb.

Wilkey


----------



## chakrawal

Can someone please compare beam shots with The MicroFire Warrior-III (K3500)?


----------



## spaz815

Ginseng said:


> It means that Customs and Border Protection have redirected your package on suspicion of contraband such as Cuban cigars, endangered Singaporean fox bats, or methamphetamine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or, more likely, that it's on its way through to you once it clears.
> 
> Wilkey



Are you being for real? LOL!


----------



## TEEJ

chakrawal said:


> Can someone please compare it with The MicroFire Warrior-III (K3500)?







ma_sha1 said:


> One of the major difference is the body diameter,
> It's an important ergonomic factor that haven't been mention in this thread.
> 
> I find most 3x18650 type of HID body being too fat to hold comfortably, The magic Fire has 4x18650, thus even fatter.
> 
> I think people with smaller hands may soon realize how uncomfortable it may get after holding it for a while.
> 
> SSK-33 is very slim for 3x18650 arrangement. They come in stock at 6x28650,
> I had to cut it down to 3x18650. Lots of work, but in the end, it's both shorter & slimmer than magic fire.
> 
> I find it much more important to have a slim body than extra 5 watts, that's why I have 3x18650 35W Firefox I, but was never interested in the 4x18650 40W version of Firefox II.



Found a reference


----------



## spaz815

So I've read some online and you are for real. So I probably won't see the light for a month or so. Have anyone had to deal with customs?


----------



## [email protected]

Yes, I have to deal with customs as well too. Just call the supplier to check with Dhl why it took so long and Dhl will trace it back to rush the release of the goods.

I deal with Dhl many times and this is the only way to get it released quickly. Hope this helps.


----------



## Patriot

Well, the numbers that BVH posted in his videos tell the truth and the beamshots certainly seem to reflect those figures. I'm a bit disappointed that these lights were either falsely advertised or that the product is so inconsistent that they range anywhere from 28W - 40W. This light probably won't add anything to my arsenal that I wasn't already experiencing with the K3500 or Boxer 24W, aside from better color temperature. I'm still hoping that by some chance my tests closer to advertised wattage than BVH's test sample but that's probably wishful thinking. On the plus side, run time is increased a bit which will make it nice for walking the dog and such.

Really appreciate the tests, beam shots and other pics you guys. Helps me feel like I'm still part of this while my light is "processed in hong kong, departing hong kong, arrived at hong kong, departing hong kong, arrived at hong kong........................"


----------



## spaz815

[email protected] said:


> Yes, I have to deal with customs as well too. Just call the supplier to check with Dhl why it took so long and Dhl will trace it back to rush the release of the goods.
> 
> I deal with Dhl many times and this is the only way to get it released quickly. Hope this helps.



It isn't being shipped DHL. Its EMS.


----------



## mohanjude

Patriot said:


> Well, the numbers that BVH posted in his videos tell the truth and the beamshots certainly seem to reflect those figures. I'm a bit disappointed that these lights were either falsely advertised or that the product is so inconsistent that they range anywhere from 28W - 40W. This light probably won't add anything to my arsenal that I wasn't already experiencing with the K3500 or Boxer 24W, aside from better color temperature. I'm still hoping that by some chance my tests closer to advertised wattage than BVH's test sample but that's probably wishful thinking. On the plus side, run time is increased a bit which will make it nice for walking the dog and such.
> 
> Really appreciate the tests, beam shots and other pics you guys. Helps me feel like I'm still part of this while my light is "processed in hong kong, departing hong kong, arrived at hong kong, departing hong kong, arrived at hong kong........................"



Paul

I have several done amp draws and it is around 2.8amps on my light at 3.9v = 43W = 20% loss so around 36W.Don't know why mine is higher. I recently bought a Polarion X1 which is rated at 40W and just a eye ball shows that the Polarion is miles better. It throws much further, looks brighter and the beam is a pleasure to look at. I guess looking at the replacement battery pack for the Polarion X1 is nearly 150% of the cost this HID light. It is all down to money. As I said in my opinion my search goes on to find the ultimate pocket HID - a HID the size of the Eznite and throws like a PH50.... I would pay twice the cost of the PH50 for a HID light like that... only wish somebody made it.


----------



## 2100

Hey guys, 36W input seems pretty ok to me. I mean this is like those Ebay/Aliexpress alu tube stuff...usable but if you are talking about "CPF enthusiasts level", it's definitely not there. Regarding pricing, I was offered a lower pricing, but i'm now also into another hobby (more expensive) so... hehe, a bit picky in what i get now.  I did not even want to pay for a $40 upgrade to the 85W ballast, I mean i am ok with the present performance for 65W.

FYI, I got about 4000 lumens OTF in ceiling bounce (+/- 10%, upwards is not optimal burn position) for my 65W Ebay. Pretty ok and still working... both here and Indo, though over here it does not get much use (triode888 still using his? LOL!). My 3.8M cd HID also not much use other than cloud spotting, i'd be in jail if i were to spot planes in my southern SG approach corridor....and i can't point at buildings for nuts. (being socially responsible here).
There's a cheap 532nm "thrower" at o-like for 81 bucks if you need something for cheap thrills, that's 10 miles easy aided by the beam expander. Not getting it, sheesh how to use that man? NOHD is like > 500m easily. It's easily classified as a weapon in a court of law by the prosecution. 

Sorry for the OT.  Anyway if you want entertainment, google shoudian (ma_sha's good at it man) and check out the feilong/flydragon new 2D80 5/7/9 XM-L. It's being sold at int-outdoor for nearly 600 bucks. It's probably below 45k (with SR92 as comparison), but something like 5000L OTF. Check it out.


----------



## scheven_architect

where did you buy that amondotech? can't find much about it


----------



## Ginseng

mohanjude said:


> It is all down to money. As I said in my opinion my search goes on to find the ultimate pocket HID - a HID the size of the Eznite and throws like a PH50.... I would pay twice the cost of the PH50 for a HID light like that... only wish somebody made it.


Yep,
And that is why I'm sooo glad there are cheaper options like this for users like me. I'm aspirational in LEDs but kilobuck range or higher is a non-option for me. It's all a matter of expectations.
Wilkey


----------



## Wildlands

I have used this 4 nights in a row, and I have dropped it a couple times, left it in 12 inches of snow for 5 mins, run it for almost an hour straight a few times, tossed it in my car and my pack. It's gone through forests, across fields, and up a few hills. So far, I am thrilled with it and have had no issues.

I do not have 20 other HIDs to compare it to, especially not thousand plus dollar ones. I have one Stanley HID that cost me half what this did, but that really is not portable or carry-able during hiking/running. I wanted something like the Stanley, that had better color and as much light, and I was willing to sacrifice some of the beam profile for portability. I got exactly what I wanted.

It is not perfect for every application. It is not an LED light with multiple levels of lighting. I like it for putting out a better color rendition than my LEDs, and I love the power of this beast for the price.

Some folks are coming from a different perspective, and want different things. That being said, this is not a disappointment at the price, and it is a fine tool for those who have specific needs.


----------



## BVH

The Amondotech line of lights were sold by "Amondotech" before he went out of business and sold/transfered some inventory to BatteryJunction. Not really sure about all that happened in that. The amondotech is the forerunner of the famous POB (made by the same factory). I bought mine before Amondotech closed down. I modded it with a 46 Watt ballast a year ago or so. The blue beam was not as intense as in the pic.



scheven_architect said:


> where did you buy that amondotech? can't find much about it


----------



## TEEJ

Wildlands said:


> I have used this 4 nights in a row, and I have dropped it a couple times, left it in 12 inches of snow for 5 mins, run it for almost an hour straight a few times, tossed it in my car and my pack. It's gone through forests, across fields, and up a few hills. So far, I am thrilled with it and have had no issues.
> 
> I do not have 20 other HIDs to compare it to, especially not thousand plus dollar ones. I have one Stanley HID that cost me half what this did, but that really is not portable or carry-able during hiking/running. I wanted something like the Stanley, that had better color and as much light, and I was willing to sacrifice some of the beam profile for portability. I got exactly what I wanted.
> 
> It is not perfect for every application. It is not an LED light with multiple levels of lighting. I like it for putting out a better color rendition than my LEDs, and I love the power of this beast for the price.
> 
> Some folks are coming from a different perspective, and want different things. That being said, this is not a disappointment at the price, and it is a fine tool for those who have specific needs.




That works for me, as its in line with my expectations. I was not expecting a Polarion for $150...I wasn't even sure it would survive use for work, but I do experiment, and sometimes a piece of equipment works out, and sometimes its relegated to the trash bin/a shelf somewhere, etc. So, so far, it sounds promising.


----------



## Ginseng

Wildlands said:


> I have used this 4 nights in a row, and I have dropped it a couple times, left it in 12 inches of snow for 5 mins, run it for almost an hour straight a few times, tossed it in my car and my pack. It's gone through forests, across fields, and up a few hills. So far, I am thrilled with it and have had no issues.
> 
> I do not have 20 other HIDs to compare it to, especially not thousand plus dollar ones. I have one Stanley HID that cost me half what this did, but that really is not portable or carry-able during hiking/running. I wanted something like the Stanley, that had better color and as much light, and I was willing to sacrifice some of the beam profile for portability. I got exactly what I wanted.
> 
> It is not perfect for every application. It is not an LED light with multiple levels of lighting. I like it for putting out a better color rendition than my LEDs, and I love the power of this beast for the price.
> 
> Some folks are coming from a different perspective, and want different things. That being said, this is not a disappointment at the price, and it is a fine tool for those who have specific needs.


I like the sound of that. Thanks for sharing your experience with the light.

Wilkey


----------



## Patriot

> 2100
> Hey guys, 36W input seems pretty ok to me.


.Yeah, honestly, that's quite acceptable in my book as well. I'd be happy to get a 36W example of MF. Seems though it's a bit hit and miss evidenced by BVH's light.


----------



## TEEJ

Based upon the 350 yard shots posted, my SR90 seemed stronger than most of the HID's. I have not had a chance to re-test the SR90 after De-Doming though, so when the HID arrives, I'll shoot some shots with the de-domed SR90 and maybe some other throwers I have laying around.




So far, the HID is doing the Hong Kong dance in Cincinnati now though, so who knows when I'll see it in person. And I hope mine is 3_7_ watts.

:nana:


----------



## ma_sha1

BVH said:


> Ma_Sha, have you or anyone else measured the FireFox input and/or output?



Never measured the Power, But I have measured Lux on oracle 24W & Xeccon 33 35W HID, shine top has a lux measurement for Firefox 1 being 148K lux.

In my hands, The firefox 1 lost to the xeccon slightly in throw, but it has a better beam.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ated-Short-Arc-amp-HID-spotlight-Lux-readings

*3" or smaller Reflector Group*
--*Xeccon SSK-33* 2-mode HID, 3" reflector *35W mode*: *135,000 cp* (Measured by ma_sha1) 
--*Xeccon SSK-33* 2-mode HID, 3" reflector *28W mode*: * 96,000 cp* (Measured 
--*MicroFire Warrior III* OP-polished reflector *92,000 cp*(measured by MorePower)
--*MicroFire Warrior III* 3" SMO reflector, *108,000 cp *(measured by shinetop, 3 meters)
--*Fire-Foxes 1*(火狐2009), 2.6" SMO, Peeled naked bulb, *148,500* cp (measured by shinetop, 3 meters) 

*Low Power HIDs: 25W or less*
*...24W Tactical HID*- *40,000 cp* (measured by jirik_cz)
*...24W Oracle HID, OP reflector*- *45,000 cp* (measured by ma_sha1)


----------



## MDJAK

I think smart consumers, as most of us are, believe that you get what you pay for. Yes, sometimes there's a diamond in the rough, but for the most part if it's too good to be true, it is.

The MS is my first HID. Last night, after using it for two straight weeks, I decided to take my slightly smaller and lighter JetBeam RRT3-XML on my 3 mile walk. Now that is an over $300 light. And it runs no problem for 50 minutes on high (1950) that my walk takes. 

But now that I am getting slightly more knowledgeable about this stuff, slightly being the operational word here, I see that it does not throw nearly as far as I originally thought, and it's not nearly as bright as I thought.

That's why I went HID. And I now only slightly regret buying over a thousand dollars worth of lights in my first few months in this hobby. I should have just bought a few small LEDs (which I did), and the Abyss. The SR90, while a great thrower, is too big for me to carry (and I use the shoulder strap), and has no real up close spread and so it's just not my cup of tea. 


I ordered the Abyss a few minutes ago and am already looking in my mailbox for it. :naughty:


----------



## 2100

Patriot said:


> .Yeah, honestly, that's quite acceptable in my book as well. I'd be happy to get a 36W example of MF. Seems though it's a bit hit and miss evidenced by BVH's light.



I guess there definitely would be some noticeable variances between the lights. For my "65W" ebay lights, some of them are a fair bit brighter (I haven't measured them) and yeah some bulbs definitely would be bent more than others and it's not really bendable. My 100W ballasts are pretty ok, one is 98W input and another 93W input. But my 75W are somewhat bad, its only like 58-60W. My 55 watters are pretty much on the dot. The trick to the cheap chinese auto type ballasts and bulbs is simple, just overdrive them somewhat and stock up on the bulbs as you save on shipping. I haven't used them for like 30 minutes at a time, but for 10 mins bursts I haven't encountered a need to change any "overdriven" bulb. 


Well another factor would be "OTF lumens". Just wondering, did anybody measure any ceiling bounce figures relative to LED lights with known outputs and lux figures? That'd be good info. 

If it's just below SR90 in throw, it could be 90-100k thereabouts (i am not sure if you phenomenon in which CW LEDs get slightly lower figures on the meter as compared to HID applies here, but lets keep it simple for starters)


----------



## TEEJ

2100 said:


> I guess there definitely would be some noticeable variances between the lights. For my "65W" ebay lights, some of them are a fair bit brighter (I haven't measured them) and yeah some bulbs definitely would be bent more than others and it's not really bendable. My 100W ballasts are pretty ok, one is 98W input and another 93W input. But my 75W are somewhat bad, its only like 58-60W. My 55 watters are pretty much on the dot. The trick to the cheap chinese auto type ballasts and bulbs is simple, just overdrive them somewhat and stock up on the bulbs as you save on shipping. I haven't used them for like 30 minutes at a time, but for 10 mins bursts I haven't encountered a need to change any "overdriven" bulb.
> 
> 
> Well another factor would be "OTF lumens". Just wondering, did anybody measure any ceiling bounce figures relative to LED lights with known outputs and lux figures? That'd be good info.
> 
> If it's just below SR90 in throw, it could be 90-100k thereabouts (i am not sure if you phenomenon in which CW LEDs get slightly lower figures on the meter as compared to HID applies here, but lets keep it simple for starters)




If you HAVE an SR90 for example, and you want it to THROW, just de-dome it. I got 203,000 Lux at 1 meter with that single SR90 mod. 

It goes from great, to BEAST.


----------



## Patriot

I thought that de-domed SST-90s were losing 15-20% output. Not really something I'd be interested in doing as it just reduces efficiency. I guess I can understand the sacrifice if one's primary goal is a throw light but I'd probably more interested in an aspheric arrangement if I was going to give up lumens for throw.


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> I thought that de-domed SST-90s were losing 15-20% output. Not really something I'd be interested in doing as it just reduces efficiency. I guess I can understand the sacrifice if one's primary goal is a throw light but I'd probably more interested in an aspheric arrangement if I was going to give up lumens for throw.



Well, it is relative in this case. The SR90 has a ton of spill normally....and when trying to see a great distance off, too much ambient light makes your eyes stop down, making it harder to see/resolve targets at long range. The De-domed SR90 essentially reduces (But doesn't eliminate) the spill, and tightens the corona, and throws about the same hot spot beam - but further. The lost lumens are the ones normally used for spill...so lets say the stock light had 1,300 OTF lumens...a loss of ~15% - 20% = ~ 195 - 260 lumens.

Stock, the SR 90 throws about as far as the TK70, even though the TK70 is pumping out ~ 2,200 OTF lumens, vs the stock SR90's ~1,300 lumens. The rest of the TK70's lumens are corona and spill, etc. At full range, you can't see with the TK70's corona or spill, you only see what's left of the hot spot, same as an SR90 at full range.

All De-Doming the SR90 does is trade the coupla hundred lumens of light that never would reach the target anyway, and that reduces night vision, for more light that WILL reach the target...so that you can see it better.

As that's the point of a long range light, I'm fine with that.



When I get a chance, I'll see what the OTF is...I have no idea of the actual loss, one way or the other, other than it was projected to be in that range. Typically, for a thrower, its less about lumens and more about Lux down range.

I DO know the light pumped out 203,000 Lux at one meter though....which bodes well for being able to reach out and touch.





*SR90 - Stock:*












*SR90 - De-Domed:
*






:naughty:


----------



## Patriot

TEEJ said:


> Well, it is relative in this case. The SR90 has a ton of spill normally....and when trying to see a great distance off, too much ambient light makes your eyes stop down, making it harder to see/resolve targets at long range. The De-domed SR90 essentially reduces (But doesn't eliminate) the spill, and tightens the corona, and throws about the same hot spot beam - but further. The lost lumens are the ones normally used for spill...so lets say the stock light had 1,300 OTF lumens...a loss of ~15% - 20% = ~ 195 - 260 lumens.
> 
> Stock, the SR 90 throws about as far as the TK70, even though the TK70 is pumping out ~ 2,200 OTF lumens, vs the stock SR90's ~1,300 lumens. The rest of the TK70's lumens are corona and spill, etc. At full range, you can't see with the TK70's corona or spill, you only see what's left of the hot spot, same as an SR90 at full range.




All makes sense except for the estimates of light loss. I think the actual loss is greater than the 195-260K estimate because I my experience the SR90 OTF lumens are substantially greater than what two of the most well known testers have tested it at. I think they've received under performing examples or I just happen to have a unusually high performing example of SR90. When I compare bounce tests with other well known and reliable HIDs and LED lights to a pretty strict test model, it's closer to 2000+ lumens not 1300. For example, I measure between 224-248 lux which is well above the WE Boxer 24W and approaches the output of the 35W HID's. Not to be confused with throw measurements, these are simply measurements of relative light output. When the MF gets here I'll measure it and add it to the list along with some updates. I'm missing a bunch of lights from this list for some reason and have to find them. 

Jil Lite EZNite 10W HID
*28* lux stabilized at 1:15
*45* lux peak at 14 sec 


AE Light PL24/S 24W HID
*100* lux stabilized at 1:00 
*101* lux peak


Wolf Eyes Boxer 24W HID 
*151* lux stabilized at 1:35 
*152* lux peak


Microfire Warrior K3500 35W HID
*305* lux stabilized at 1:30 
*310* lux peak


Costco / Harbor Freight 35W HID 
*296* lux stabilized at 1:10 
*419* lux peak at 35 sec.


ower on Board 35W HID
*326* lux stabilized at 1:35
*333* lux peak at 2:00


Polarion PH50 Helios 50W HID
*650* lux stabilized at 50 sec.
*1000* lux peak at 9 sec.


Polarion Night Reaper (CSWL) 50+W HID
*740* lux stabilized at 1:00
*1134* lux peak at 11 sec.


----------



## TEEJ

I'm trying to interpret your numbers...It looks like the HID's, as a pattern, are brighter in the first few seconds, and then settle down to a lower brightness?

And assuming those are Lux at 1 meter #'s...that would put the SR90 way higher than I would think makes any sense...? Visually, I would have pictured it ~ the performance of a 35 watt HID or so as far as throw...so, do you have a order of magnitude missing from your Lux#'s above, or are they something other than lux at one meter?


I used the total OTF #'s from the esteemed testors you referred to (I'm guessing, as that's how many posted the OTF lumens...) as well, as they seemed to agree with each other.

Figure its rated for 2,200 emitter lumens...so 2,000 OTF would be a high estimate typically...~1,700 lumens would be a good guess though...as that's what Olight actually says on the website right now (Looked).

So perhaps the OTF was under estimated here...or over estimated by Olight...or both, etc.

Even if we use the 1,700 lumens...15% = 255 lumens, etc....its the same order of magnitude.


One thing I've noticed about perceived brightness, it is judged differently by different people. I can show two lights, one thrower, and one flood...and they can have the same OTF ratings, and one person will say the Thrower is MUCH BRIGHTER...and the other person will say the Flooder is MUCH BRIGHTER, and so forth.

So, I think its the way we're hardwired....just like some of us see a gal as too skinny, and someone else will call them fat.



For me, its about what I can see. I spend a lot of time looking for things, and, when not looking for work, I'm experimenting.

My next experiment will be to see at what ranges we need how many lux to resolve details. I plan to compare a man carrying wood in his arms to a man carrying fire arms, and see at what range we can tell them apart...at what lux level.




Preliminary data indicates that while we use 0.25 lux as our default throw limit designation...and you can definetely see fine right in front of you at 0.25 lux...you CAN'T resolve fine detail several hundred yards away at 0.25 lux.

My theory is that the part of your eye that you USE to focus on a distant object is very poor in low light situations, and your more periphreal vision (~ 2º + off center) has better light reception than your fovea. 

So while you can navigate around objects, etc, at 0.25 lux w/o a problem, or even less...I want to see how many lux we need to tell if a guy has a gun or a stick when he's a long way off in the dark.

So, the MF, etc... will be part of this.


----------



## Patriot

> TEEJ
> And assuming those are Lux at 1 meter #'s...that would put the SR90 way higher than I would think makes any sense...? Visually, I would have pictured it ~ the performance of a 35 watt HID or so as far as throw...so, do you have a order of magnitude missing from your Lux#'s above, or are they something other than lux at one meter?






Patriot said:


> All makes sense except for the estimates of light loss. I think the actual loss is greater than the 195-260K estimate because I my experience the SR90 OTF lumens are substantially greater than what two of the most well known testers have tested it at. I think they've received under performing examples or I just happen to have a unusually high performing example of SR90. *When I compare bounce tests* with other well known and reliable HIDs and LED lights to a pretty strict test model, it's closer to 2000+ lumens not 1300. For example, I measure between 224-248 lux which is well above the WE Boxer 24W and approaches the output of the 35W HID's.* Not to be confused with throw measurements, these are simply measurements of relative light output. *



The light meter is set to the 2000 scale.



> TEEJ
> I'm trying to interpret your numbers...It looks like the HID's, as a pattern, are brighter in the first few seconds, and then settle down to a lower brightness?




Some are brighter at start up due to the boost phase while others are not. 

In any case, it would be really difficult for me to de-dome the SR90 because while I'm not blown away with the sheer throw of the SR90, it's still impressive while having a very useable beam. If it really increases the throw by 90% as compared to a domed SR90, that's a surprisingly large improvement but as an HID fan, even the 200K lux figure doesn't make me do back flips. But hey, part of what makes this stuff fun is that everyone has their own idea about what's cool and which attributes are desirable.


----------



## Tain

Here's a review of Magic Fire 40W HID from a Chinese website. 
http://www.shoudian.com/thread-249739-1-1.html


Upper-left: Distance in meter.
Upper-right: "*Magic Fire 40W HID*",
Lower-left: "*Pretty Leg 35W HID*" 
Lower-right: "*Microfire 35W HID*"


----------



## TEEJ

Mine was JUST delivered by DHL.



Now I gotta wait for dark....

:scowl:


----------



## Patriot

TEEJ said:


> Mine was JUST delivered by DHL.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I gotta wait for dark....
> 
> :scowl:




Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Mine is still doing the China shuffle.


----------



## spaz815

Mine is in Customs. So from what I read I'm screwed. I'll be lucky to even get it now. Good thing this is my first hid and I was excited to get the thing. What the hell. This is my luck.


----------



## TEEJ

Well, the Tenergy 2600 mah cells are too fat....I think the AW 3100's will be fine though.


----------



## scheven_architect

anyone that has this light and a 65w or 85w 'ebay' generic flashlight?


----------



## spaz815

Whats the deal with the battery s being to big?


----------



## mohanjude

scheven_architect said:


> anyone that has this light and a 65w or 85w 'ebay' generic flashlight?


I have the 75 w ebay hid light

mohan


----------



## TEEJ

spaz815 said:


> Whats the deal with the battery s being to big?



It seems the battery tube is ~ 45 mm in diameter, and the disks that make up the top/bottom of the carrier are within a hair of that, as they fit in about as exactly as you can get...

And if two 18.5 mm cells would require 37 mm...and there's a center pol in the carrier that's ~ 5 mm thick, making the minimum diameter closer to ~ 42 mm...which leaves a scant 3 mm to work with, before carrier insertion skins the outer cells on the edges of the battery tube.

The issue came down to the shoulders of the cells interfering with each other, increasing the effective diameter to over 45 mm, so that they did not fit into the battery tube.

If you fit two opposing cells into the carrier, it slides in no problem...as its ~ 43 mm across that way.

If you add the OTHER two cells, THEY push the first two cells outward, so the effective diameter is now too fat to fit into the tube.

The trick is to defeat where the carrier is trying to hold the cells, tweak the springs, etc, to essentially shift the contact points inwards so that the batteries nestle closer together than their "Natural" resting places would allow.

Once I had coerced the batteries into an unnatural position that gave a minimum diameter, and I could see that none of them stuck out past the edges of the disks...I could squeak the carrier into the tube w/o skinning the batteries.


----------



## lightknot

Light received. Way under-packed. Not even a flimsy cardboard box for a $217+ shipment. A couple turns of bubble wrap in a thin plastic envelope. Not a shred of cardboard to be found, much less a bona-fide box, or a case.This light has a gash in the bezel, no doubt from being thrown around in its completely insufficient plastic wrap, and another chunk taken out of the bezel close by the first, along with a third scrape on the bezel a little further around. Obvious mishandling, no protection, no warnings on the wafer thin and way too big plastic envelope. $217+ gets paper thin packaging for a 10,000 mile journey of fragile electronics?? Amazing that it wasn't DOA.











4 x 18650's (fit fine, AW 2600 protected) were used for the initial test. Very underwhelming. The beam is super floody, (not expected or wanted) with tons of artifact in the beam, black lines, rings, different colors, etc. For the price, $217+ (for the damaged light, 6 unprotected, unmarked batteries and supposedly fast shipping),* I give it two big yawns.*


----------



## TEEJ

My tail cap gash looks like your first bezel gash...probably hit the same part of the sorter.

ALL the packaging had been torn to shreds by customs (They left thoughtfull little notes indicating that they'd been there, etc...probably in case I got confused and thought that DHL had hired rabid wolverines as package handlers, etc?)

The light itself was in torn up bubble wrap, inside a simple plastic mailer that had also multiple wounds and tape-ups, etc.

I'll forgive the handling, or lack thereof, or abuse of, etc...if it performs as expected initially presented/advertised.

If its garbage in performance, I'll probably never buy from, or recommend, CN to anyone, ever. 

So, I'll wait for the verdict tonight.


----------



## Ginseng

TEEJ said:


> My tail cap gash looks like your first bezel gash...probably hit the same part of the sorter.
> 
> ALL the packaging had been torn to shreds by customs (They left thoughtfull little notes indicating that they'd been there, etc...probably in case I got confused and thought that DHL had hired rabid wolverines as package handlers, etc?)
> 
> The light itself was in torn up bubble wrap, inside a simple plastic mailer that had also multiple wounds and tape-ups, etc.
> 
> I'll forgive the handling, or lack thereof, or abuse of, etc...if it performs as expected initially presented/advertised.
> 
> If its garbage in performance, I'll probably never buy from, or recommend, CN to anyone, ever.
> 
> So, I'll wait for the verdict tonight.


Hear hear. CN better hope the rest of the shipments get lucky. We're talking around $4,000 worth of goods on this "special offer."

Wilkey


----------



## spaz815

Atleast you guys are getting your lights. I would be happy with a little gash in my light if it will ever get to me. I've been reading some bad stuff about customs. Mine hasn't moved from customs for a few days.


----------



## Patriot

lightknot said:


> Light received. Way under-packed. Not even a flimsy cardboard box for a $247 shipment. A couple turns of bubble wrap in a thin plastic envelope. Not a shred of cardboard to be found, much less a bona-fide box, or a case.This light has a gash in the bezel, no doubt from being thrown around in its completely insufficient plastic wrap, and another chunk taken out of the bezel close by the first, along with a third scrape on the bezel a little further around. Obvious mishandling, no protection, no warnings on the wafer thin and way too big plastic envelope, complete fiasco. $247 gets paper thin packaging for a 10,000 mile journey of fragile electronics?? Amazing that it wasn't DOA.





I'm really sorry that your light arrived beat to heck. I'm trying to capture my thoughts right now which are of pure astonishment. The idea that a seller who's supposedly familiar with light and electronics, tosses it into a plastic envelope, slaps a sticker on it and dumps it into the outgoing mail bin, is incredible. Complete disregard it seems.


Since you're in AZ and received your light already while my still shows a location of hong kong, I decided to give DHL a call about 10 minutes ago, just to find out what's going on. Jessica at DHL stated that due to the fact that the shipment contained "lithium batteries" the shipping was delayed because the seller didn't provide the necessary lithium battery paperwork required for airmail. DHL has been trying to contact the seller but haven't made contact and haven't received a response. At this point it could be be withheld for up 30 days. If the shipper doesn't respond in 30 days it would be returned to the shipper.

Wow! The stories just keep getting better.


----------



## MDJAK

Glad I didn't order batteries from him. But yeah, the packaging is ridiculous. Talk about cutting corners to save a few bucks.

Luckily, mine came in perfect condition.


----------



## lightknot

It is night time here in the Sonoran Desert and a long walk with the Magic Fire/ Magic Scorpion 40 W HID brought these conclusions:* it puts out a lot of light.* 4000 lumen? Doubt it. The beam is full of artifacts and dark spots, one must point the beam somewhat off center in order to light an object. There are a lot of colors, mostly warm white, with some "fans" of yellow, a large reddish stripe and a black stripe through the center of the beam and a pronounced dark spot directly in the center of the hotspot. There are also hues of green throughout, and many rings, including a reddish brown ring at the periphery of the flood spill. The light is big and heavy, and that is a good thing. It feels solid in the hand. Burn time was around 50 minutes to an hour, with no appreciable loss of lumens, and battery to spare. Throw is ok, lights up stop signs at 200 yards, but was expecting a lot more. Flood is IMMENSE, was expecting a lot less. First impressions? Nice light, good WOW factor, but considering the quality of the beam and the sub-standard shipping/ handling / damage, *overpriced.*




BTW, Patriot, I ordered 6 lithium-ion 18650 batteries with this light, which came in the package. There is a note on one of the many labels which reads - Content:TORCH (DRY BATTERIES NOT IATA RESTRICTED AS PER SPA123). Makes you wonder why they are holding yours.


----------



## BVH

TEEJ said:


> It seems the battery tube is ~ 45 mm in diameter, and the disks that make up the top/bottom of the carrier are within a hair of that, as they fit in about as exactly as you can get...
> 
> And if two 18.5 mm cells would require 37 mm...and there's a center pol in the carrier that's ~ 5 mm thick, making the minimum diameter closer to ~ 42 mm...which leaves a scant 3 mm to work with, before carrier insertion skins the outer cells on the edges of the battery tube.
> 
> The issue came down to the shoulders of the cells interfering with each other, increasing the effective diameter to over 45 mm, so that they did not fit into the battery tube.
> 
> If you fit two opposing cells into the carrier, it slides in no problem...as its ~ 43 mm across that way.
> 
> If you add the OTHER two cells, THEY push the first two cells outward, so the effective diameter is now too fat to fit into the tube.
> 
> The trick is to defeat where the carrier is trying to hold the cells, tweak the springs, etc, to essentially shift the contact points inwards so that the batteries nestle closer together than their "Natural" resting places would allow.
> 
> Once I had coerced the batteries into an unnatural position that gave a minimum diameter, and I could see that none of them stuck out past the edges of the disks...I could squeak the carrier into the tube w/o skinning the batteries.



Teej, did you scrape/sand the ridge (if it had one) around the extreme rear edge of the tube where the carrier disks first go in?


----------



## lightknot

Patriot said:


> I'm really sorry that your light arrived beat to heck. I'm trying to capture my thoughts right now which are of pure astonishment. The idea that a seller who's supposedly familiar with light and electronics, tosses it into a plastic envelope, slaps a sticker on it and dumps it into the outgoing mail bin, is incredible. Complete disregard it seems.
> 
> 
> Since you're in AZ and received your light already while my still shows a location of hong kong, I decided to give DHL a call about 10 minutes ago, just to find out what's going on. Jessica at DHL stated that due to the fact that the shipment contained "lithium batteries" the shipping was delayed because the seller didn't provide the necessary lithium battery paperwork required for airmail. DHL has been trying to contact the seller but haven't made contact and haven't received a response. At this point it could be be withheld for up 30 days. If the shipper doesn't respond in 30 days it would be returned to the shipper.
> 
> Wow! The stories just keep getting better.



Hmmm.. the stories DO keep getting better. According to a "Letter of Declaration" in a plastic sleeve on my DHL packaging for this light and 6x Sanyo batteries. - The batteries contained are "non hazardous for air transportation" and further certified that the batteries "are not classified as dangerous under the current 53rd 2012 edition of the IATA-DGR-S.P.A123 Dangerous Goods Regulations." Complete with plant manager's signature, and stamp of the company. Signed, Stamped, Sealed and Delivered, A-OK for 6 x Sanyo 18650's (red, unmarked, unprotected, lithium ion cells)

And it keeps getting better. Inside the six page "Letter of Declaration" are several items worth noting. 1. Material Identification- Product Name: Ni-Cd BATTERIES 2. Physical Properties- Physical State: Solid in cylinder shape. Color: Blue.




These are the delivered "blue Ni-Cd" batteries in their original "packaging".


----------



## Patriot

lightknot said:


> And it keeps getting better. Inside the six page "Letter of Declaration" are several items worth noting. 1. Material Identification- Product Name: Ni-Cd BATTERIES 2. Physical Properties- Physical State: Solid in cylinder shape. Color: Blue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the delivered batteries in their original "packaging". Look like blue Ni-Cads to you?




Classic! Love the original packaging too.


----------



## 2100

Lightknot, take a picture? HIDs are famous for not so good hotspot and stuff. Even a Polarion wouldn't be perfect, definitely not in the LED kind of realm. Colours are plentiful even for 5000k. Your description does depict it as horrible and it seems that something is damaged (collimation, bulb, whatever).


----------



## TEEJ

Glad I had spare batteries/din't need to get red colored blue lithium ion nicads...

From what I can tell, almost every one's lights were delivered in torn up baggies, and the lights were all gashed up and dented, etc, from a lack of protective packaging.

Mine came in yesterday - With a GASH, of course.



Anyway - Last night I took out a few lights to play, and was intending on doing some beam shots, etc...and got interrupted by a family emergency...so, All I had time to do was a few preliminary sweeps of a test area with a DEFT edc LR, modded X10, S18, etc...the dedomed SR90 and the Magic Gashfire. (What I've been calling the Magic Scorpion...)


Magic Gashfire:
The ton of artifacts that were observed on whitewall shots were not evident outside (Not unusual for artifacts luckily), and, once warmed up, it did throw decently, with a floody beam for an HID, but, OK for what I use these sorts of lights for. There was a lot of spill, and it did project a decent beam though, but the "Dowel" was visibly fattening as it headed off into the distance, a very narrow cone so to speak.

I haven't checked the distances I swept yet , but I think it was at least 400 - 800 yards or so minimum with enough light to see things, further with the usual "throw limit lumens", etc. (Lake shore, so parts were closer or further as I swept the beams around, etc...)


Dedomed SR90:
The SR90 still has quite a lot of peripheral light, more than enough spill to walk around with, etc...but throws a nice dowel shaped beam of light, its like the corona was put into the hotspot, but the spill stayed similar.

That allowed me to put a pretty good sized hot spot on the opposite shore of a local lake at ~ 1/2 mile range, etc...very cool really.


The Gashfire could reach the other shore too, but the light was more diffused, and details were harder to make out. IE: With the Gashfire, I could see the tree line up from the shoreline, but it was hard to make out individual trees, maybe a couple bigguns, etc... but with the SR90, I could see the individual trunks, etc.

The DEFT edc LR could put a square of light on the treeline as well at that range, but closer in resolution to the Gashfire than the SR90....but a smaller patch of light.

The other throwers I had handy couldn't reach that far, other than to make the leaves glow a little...IE: If I was in a boat at night, trying to see which way land was, the others might tell me it was THERE, but, not much else. The Gashfire or DEFT would tell me the land was there, there was a shore line, and then a treeline up from that...and the SR90 would tell me that there was also a keg of beer leaning against one of the tree trunks.


If that helps?


----------



## lightknot

2100, it is _not_ horrible. Please don't misread me, this Magic Fire / Magic Scorpion puts out a lot of light, in a handheld package. As I mentioned, most of the beam is warm white. The wire holding the bulb produces a black and red stripe through the center of the beam, and there is a dark spot in the center of the beam. As for collimation, I had hoped for: a much thinner beam, longer throwing and not the wide flood that it displays. There was, and is, a little bit of hype around this light. "Best bang for the buck" was the general sentiment. My expectations were unreasonably high and I was consequently disappointed. The lack of adequate packaging is a large oversight on the sellers end. To their credit, I have purchased other items from them which arrived with superb packaging, which is one of the reasons I was astonished at the absence of substantial protection for this "40W" HID.


----------



## BVH

Just a heads-up on safety with these lights. I just received my Callies Kustoms CGR, 2250 mAh cells and was excited to see how and if they would fit. The first thing I noticed was that the shrink wrapped label does not fully cover the cylindrical cells' outer case at the negative end. There is a 32nd or so of exposed metal case. Whereas, on the positive end, the label completely wraps around. Because clearances are so tight in this light, I made a mental note to carefully observe the first two bare cell negative ends during insertion because when in-series, you can't electrically connect multiple "negative" polarity cell cases or a dead-short results. Glad I did. I very lightly inserted the carrier until just before the two cell bare negative ends were to go into the tube. It looked like they would go in without an issue. (2 tapered cell positive ends are already in the tube at this point) I then ever-so-lightly lowered the carrier and got a resultant flick of spark and quickly remove the carrier. I half expected this and was ready for a problem so no damage occurred except two slightly instantly warm cells. While this may be a problem unique to the Callies cells, check your labels for full metal case coverage and...even if your cells are fully covered by labels, if you happen to rip or score the labels, you could end up with a mighty unhappy experience to put it mildly.


----------



## mohanjude

If you adjust the focus you can almost get rid if the black line of the filament. In the Beamshot outsidemy house on a White wall you can't see this type if artefact.


----------



## BVH

Be careful turning the bezel down too far. I think, but did not confirm, that the glass lens could strike the return wire/top of the bulb.


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> Be careful turning the bezel down too far. I think, but did not confirm, that the glass lens could strike the return wire/top of the bulb.




If I ever get my light, I'll check for this to see if the lens contacts the bulb or wire. I would be good to verify whether or not this can happen. I've seen this snap the little 10W Solarc bulb in half before.


----------



## Ginseng

I have posted a thread in the Cheers & Jeers forum here to document any issues regarding the receipt of damaged items due to improper and insufficient packaging. Here is what I got today.

The packaging.





The damage to the head and bezel.





The tell tale for the most severe damage to the bezel.





Wilkey


----------



## lightknot

Thank you, Ginseng. Have replied to the jeers thread.


----------



## Ginseng

mohanjude said:


> At startup it approx 4.6amps surge but soon levels off at less than 3amps - the 2.8amps it draws on steady - the AW 3.1amps 186500 should not struggle on this draw and last 1 hour.


The spare switch included with the light shows it rated for 1.5A at 250V. Not being an electrical person, does this mean it's appropriately spec'd for this light under DC operation?

Wilkey


----------



## BVH

All I can add is that I commonly see AC ratings on switches similar to what you posted but with both 250 and 125 V ratings and 125V is usually double the Amps of the 250 rating so in this case maybe 3 amps at 125V AC. Can it be halved again such that 63 Volts is good for 6 Amps? And once again 30.1 Volts and 12 Amps? And once more 15V and 12 Amps? Also DC will de-rate it below these numbers. Just some speculations. The light does pull more that 6 Amps on initial strike and boost.


----------



## 2100

BVH said:


> Just a heads-up on safety with these lights. I just received my Callies Kustoms CGR, 2250 mAh cells and was excited to see how and if they would fit. The first thing I noticed was that the shrink wrapped label does not fully cover the cylindrical cells' outer case at the negative end. There is a 32nd or so of exposed metal case. Whereas, on the positive end, the label completely wraps around. Because clearances are so tight in this light, I made a mental note to carefully observe the first two bare cell negative ends during insertion because when in-series, you can't electrically connect multiple "negative" polarity cell cases or a dead-short results. Glad I did. I very lightly inserted the carrier until just before the two cell bare negative ends were to go into the tube. It looked like they would go in without an issue. (2 tapered cell positive ends are already in the tube at this point) I then ever-so-lightly lowered the carrier and got a resultant flick of spark and quickly remove the carrier. I half expected this and was ready for a problem so no damage occurred except two slightly instantly warm cells. While this may be a problem unique to the Callies cells, check your labels for full metal case coverage and...even if your cells are fully covered by labels, if you happen to rip or score the labels, you could end up with a mighty unhappy experience to put it mildly.



I guess it's best to use protected cells for this light. But better to use the smaller ones.


----------



## 2100

lightknot said:


> 2100, it is _not_ horrible. Please don't misread me, this Magic Fire / Magic Scorpion puts out a lot of light, in a handheld package. As I mentioned, most of the beam is warm white. The wire holding the bulb produces a black and red stripe through the center of the beam, and there is a dark spot in the center of the beam. As for collimation, I had hoped for: a much thinner beam, longer throwing and not the wide flood that it displays. There was, and is, a little bit of hype around this light. "Best bang for the buck" was the general sentiment. My expectations were unreasonably high and I was consequently disappointed. The lack of adequate packaging is a large oversight on the sellers end. To their credit, I have purchased other items from them which arrived with superb packaging, which is one of the reasons I was astonished at the absence of substantial protection for this "40W" HID.



Hi...well from mohanjude's picture here it looks ok. It's overexposed of course so you can't see the artifacts, but the filament image is pretty normal for HIDs (even for polarions). But BVH mentioned focus, i didn't know that it could be focus. So focus very carefully (it was mentioned to be careful not focusing inwards too far so that the lens hits the bulb/wire) and see if it helps. 

I have also purchased quite a bit of stuff (like over 20 shipments) from Ric and it was via DHL/Registered airmail. Bubble wrap is pretty common from China DIY/enthusiast/budgetlight stuff....so far so good for all my shipments. But that is to my country so i don't know how customs handle over there. It's not really the distance as its via DHL so there shouldn't be more than 1 hop and its the same handler (DHL freighters even). If it's registered mail then the story is quite a bit different. But I think for DHL in the USA, they do hand over to USPS for the last leg, i know of a case in which a package of 100W ballast/bulbs was lost during the last leg with USPS.

I do agree that it could have been packaged better, just 5 more rounds of bubble wrap would have been a different story altogether. Bubble wrap is actually pretty tough if used in enough quantity.
A sharp puncture hole is not normal for packages of this size, usually what i get from my ~ 100 shipments from China is dislodged contents internally (eg metal ballast coming off from being attached to a plastic host as it's only secure via a thin strip of plastic). A few years ago, twice i have shipped 2 subwoofers, one 78kg and another 135kg to Singapore from the USA (Bax Global/DB Schenker freight forwarders)....the usual story in the audio/hifi forums is that sometimes for shipments this heavy and non-palleted/palleted is that they use a forklift to lift it, and if it's mis-aimed then obviously there is gonna be a big hole even if it is triple boxed with thick corrugated cardboard. 

This is scary, i have a 84 pound shipment coming from the USA via UPS as of now and the contents are quite fragile (eyepieces, telescope), hope it's ok. 

For performance, if i "extrapolate" from my 50W/65W ebay/aliexpress experience, i more or less know the performance....but they are much cheaper, it's 135 bucks shipped via EMS to SG.  I think the 40W is more or less there.


----------



## BVH

It's just the "HID purist" in me but the "filament" is really a return wire.


----------



## MDJAK

Okay, having read the above, I'm now concerned about my batteries. I bought 6 of the AW 3100 batteries and they cost $16 apiece. Now at least 2 if not 3 have the outer black liner torn off. Are you saying I should discard them? I definitely will if necessary.

On another note, I took my SR90 out for tonight's walk. I must apologize for initially stating that the MS was a better light. It's not close to better. Not in flood, not in throw, not in color. And certainly not in quality. Now it does cost almost half as much, but still. 

I also asked a friend with a dremel tool to come by and thin out the inner lip so it no longer rips my batteries. 

However, once I get the Abyss, hopefully within the next week, I will no longer have any use for the Gash. That is too funny a name. I guess I was lucky, though. I see no artifacts, and there was no damage to my light at all in shipping.

I'm probably going to put it up for sale in the marketplace at a substantial discount just to move it.

I was seriously thinking of selling the SR90, but I now realize just how good it is.


----------



## MDJAK

BTW: Hope you don't mind a slightly OT question. I have 18650's that range from 2400 to 3100. What is the practical difference? Longer runtime? Brighter output?

Thank you.


----------



## Ginseng

MDJAK said:


> BTW: Hope you don't mind a slightly OT question. I have 18650's that range from 2400 to 3100. What is the practical difference? Longer runtime? Brighter output?
> 
> Thank you.


Assuming the cell quality is the same, what you should expect from higher capacity, or later generation, cells is generally longer runtime and slightly better voltage stability. So, the AW18650-2200 were the first I bought way back. Now they have moved up through 2600, 2900, and finally 3100. The 3100 are, arguably, the best cells of the series. The big diff is if you change something significant, like going to the IMR high current cells in 1600 and now 2000. The standard AW cells and the IMR are not comparable. even at similar capacity.

Wilkey


----------



## RichS

MDJAK said:


> BTW: Hope you don't mind a slightly OT question. I have 18650's that range from 2400 to 3100. What is the practical difference? Longer runtime? Brighter output?
> 
> Thank you.


Those numbers (2400, 3100, etc.) are the capacity ratings for the battery. They are the mAH rating, which stands for milliamp hour. So, a 2400mAH battery can supply 2.4 amps in an hour. The 3100mAH battery can supply 3.1 amps in an hour. In short, the higher the number, the more capacity the battery has, and the longer the runtime.


----------



## TEEJ

MDJAK said:


> BTW: Hope you don't mind a slightly OT question. I have 18650's that range from 2400 to 3100. What is the practical difference? Longer runtime? Brighter output?
> 
> Thank you.



The 2400 - 3100 is the milliamp hours (mAh)...which is run time typically...its how much gas is in the tank. 

If the light also draws a lot of amperage, the cell might need to be able to power at a particular amp draw, or at a particular draw longer, to make the light brighter (Typically, depending on drivers. etc...more amps gives at least the potential for brighter output.)

In the cell reviews, there is a chart showing how long a cell (By brand, etc..) can supply a particular amperage for example...if the light has a high draw, a high mAh might not be enough in of itself, if the cell can't out put the level of amperage the light needs, etc.

But if the cell's amperage supply is all the light needs, all things being equal, the higher mAh cell will run longer.


----------



## MDJAK

thank you all. I now understand it.

I'm "gifting" my Fenix TK35 to my daughter who goes to college in Washington State. She wants to take her dog out for walks at night like I do. I need to get a charger to send her, or send her mine and get a new one. I don't see any real quality chargers for 18650's and I've looked on a number of sites. I also don't see any that charge more than 2 at a time. Is that the case, or am I not looking in the right place?

And once again, apologies for taking this a bit OT, but I kind of know you guys by now and know I will get the right answer.


----------



## BVH

MDJAK said:


> Okay, having read the above, I'm now concerned about my batteries. I bought 6 of the AW 3100 batteries and they cost $16 apiece. Now at least 2 if not 3 have the outer black liner torn off. Are you saying I should discard them? I definitely will if necessary.



In my opinion and for this light only, I would not use an unprotected cell because of the extremely tight clearance between cell and body/tube and the sharp tube entry geometry which increases the risk of label/insulation failure which _Could_ lead to a rapid vent with flame. At least with the protected cell, the over-discharge should kick in and prevent this if all is working correctly.

If you have a light with more clearance, you could repair the label or remove the original shrink wrap and apply new wrap carefully with a heat gun.

Even with "safe" cells, I've seen the potential for rapid vent _without_ flame with the CGR cells today. I would guess the same might be true of IMR's but I don't know that for a fact. At a minimum, if these safe cells dead short, they will be ruined.


----------



## TEEJ

LOL - I don't even OWN unprotected Lithium Ion cells, unless I count some primaries, etc.



Its like they sell cars with seat belts, and without...OK, I'll get the one with the seat belt, just in case.


----------



## MDJAK

All of my cells are protected. But what is IMR?



BVH said:


> In my opinion and for this light only, I would not use an unprotected cell because of the extremely tight clearance between cell and body/tube and the sharp tube entry geometry which increases the risk of label/insulation failure which _Could_ lead to a rapid vent with flame. At least with the protected cell, the over-discharge should kick in and prevent this if all is working correctly.
> 
> If you have a light with more clearance, you could repair the label or remove the original shrink wrap and apply new wrap carefully with a heat gun.
> 
> Even with "safe" cells, I've seen the potential for rapid vent _without_ flame with the CGR cells today. I would guess the same might be true of IMR's but I don't know that for a fact. At a minimum, if these safe cells dead short, they will be ruined.


----------



## BVH

MDJAK said:


> All of my cells are protected. But what is IMR?



I'm sure it's covered better in the Battery University and other posts much better than I can here but IMR's are a different chemistry Lithium Ion that will not vent with flame even with a nail driven through it - or so it is claimed. Many in-the-know here on CPF acknowledged they are safer cells. Look for AW's IMR battery sales thread to see some. Unfortunately, they are always way less capacity for a given cell size. But I believe even they can vent without flame very rapidly. which will still do damage. Even LiFeP04's vent without flame as I have experienced with genuine A123 cells.


----------



## Ginseng

Even though shipping prep was terrible, it's not all bad. I've been running it this evening and I'm pleased with both the color and the output. In comparison to my Aurora and other lights in the 1,600 and 1,200 lumen range as well as a pushed 100W Vector searchlight, I gotta say it's a stretch to say this is a 4,000 lumen light. 3,000-3,500 max. But, it's still pretty good. I'm happy with the beam and spot quality and the profile is quite useful around the property. Output is massive but not gargantuan. So as far as how it works, I'm happy. I just wish it weren't beat to heck on arrival.

Wilkey


----------



## TEEJ

To put it into perspective, the only batteries I have had that leaked, ruined lights, etc, are alkalines.....the lithiums have been trouble free, but I do try to treat them with the respect they deserve...and they pay me back, so far, by behaving.


----------



## chakrawal

Just received mine also with two gashes on the head but no others issue. DINOSAUR 18650 3100MA http://www.thaipowerlight.com/Batt-D...r-18650-3100mA fit ok and hot spot look ok with no artifact. 
Package was in a very good condition no damage to the envelope or bubble.


----------



## chakrawal

Just curious, why are gashes seem to be at the same spot.​

​
*http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/editpost.php?p=4622378&do=editpost​*


----------



## lightknot

Looks like mine got some bad packaging, handling, and damage. 
There are 7 separate areas of damage on the head and tail.
However, the seller has made good, and this light, CNQG, and Ric are all good to go.


----------



## mohanjude

I think you guys who are still waiting on the light (Patriot etc) should not open the packaging without taking photos and 'forensic exam' your torch and packaging to ensure that any damage is consistent with gashes and tears on the bubble wrap. I am starting to look at the photos and wondering how you could get some of the gashes and gouges on the bezel and not have the bubble wrap torn to shreds. If the sharp end of a roller wheel caught the flashlight I would expect the packaging to be torn a lot more. I am not a expert but I have had 'worse' packaging from some sellers and the stuff has come in tact without a scratch. I am starting to wonder? I am wondering if the flashlight originally were all inside one box and bumped on each other and caused the damage?


----------



## RichS

mohanjude said:


> I think you guys who are still waiting on the light (Patriot etc) should not open the packaging without taking photos and 'forensic exam' your torch and packaging to ensure that any damage is consistent with gashes and tears on the bubble wrap. I am starting to look at the photos and wondering how you could get some of the gashes and gouges on the bezel and not have the bubble wrap torn to shreds. If the sharp end of a roller wheel caught the flashlight I would expect the packaging to be torn a lot more. I am not a expert but I have had 'worse' packaging from some sellers and the stuff has come in tact without a scratch. I am starting to wonder? I am wondering if the flashlight originally were all inside one box and bumped on each other and caused the damage?



I'm wondering the same thing, and still waiting on my light.. I'll definitely take a bunch of pics before, during, and after the unwrapping process.


----------



## lightknot

mohanjude said:


> I think you guys who are still waiting on the light (Patriot etc) should not open the packaging without taking photos and 'forensic exam' your torch and packaging to ensure that any damage is consistent with gashes and tears on the bubble wrap. I am starting to look at the photos and wondering how you could get some of the gashes and gouges on the bezel and not have the bubble wrap torn to shreds. If the sharp end of a roller wheel caught the flashlight I would expect the packaging to be torn a lot more. I am not a expert but I have had 'worse' packaging from some sellers and the stuff has come in tact without a scratch. I am starting to wonder? I am wondering if the flashlight originally were all inside one box and bumped on each other and caused the damage?



mohanjude, wise idea, as Ric at CNQG is making right to several CPF members. He specifically requested emailed photographs of the damage. It is good to see that he is taking steps to remedy this issue.


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> The light meter is set to the 2000 scale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some are brighter at start up due to the boost phase while others are not.
> 
> In any case, it would be really difficult for me to de-dome the SR90 because while I'm not blown away with the sheer throw of the SR90, it's still impressive while having a very useable beam. If it really increases the throw by 90% as compared to a domed SR90, that's a surprisingly large improvement but as an HID fan, even the 200K lux figure doesn't make me do back flips. But hey, part of what makes this stuff fun is that everyone has their own idea about what's cool and which attributes are desirable.




A few (Proof I need a better low light with zoom camera...) beam shots for calibration purposes:





Magic Gashfire illuminating a Power Line Tower at 800 meter range (In real life, you could see it better, but the pics suck - apply accordingly to pics to follow, etc...)







De-Domed Olight SR90 illuminating same tower at 800 meters (In real life, it was easier to see than with the Magic, but you could see the tower was actually lit up by both of them)







Magic on Tower at 500 Meters







DD SR90 on same tower at 500 M, not zoomed (Forgot to shoot Magic unzoomed :duh2: )







DD SR 90 on 500 M tower






--------

Pond, 233 meters to treeline on other side of pond - A building, visible as a light colored wall in some shots, was on the other side of that tree line about another 40 meters away.






Control








Magic









Magic









Magic








Magic









DD SR90









DD SR90









DEFT edc LR









DRY









Klarus XT20








XT20








XT20








Jetbeam RRT-3 XML








RRT-3 XML








RRT-3 XML









Foursevens Maelstrom S18









S18








S18





So, that should give some real world order of magnitude comparisons for the Gashfire....I think it has a nice tint, pumps out a ton of light, and for the $, it works fine. If it KEEPS working, or if the banging around to get it to me messed it up, etc...I won't know for a while (I hope a LONG while)


----------



## spaz815

Well got my light today. The bulb is broke. Also the reflector has gray spots all over it. I think the gray spots are from the bulb breaking. Need help Ric.


----------



## Fusion_m8

CNQ is learning the hard way about skimping on proper packaging. I would have thought that after years in this game he would have known better how harsh international freight can be on loosely packages items. With that many DOA and damaged lights being sent back to Ric, its bound to affect his profit levels more significantly than if he had packaged all the lights better in the first place. Not to mention his reputation as a seller. CN Quality? What quality?


----------



## spaz815

I have no reason to talk bad about Ric being a sales person. He has helped me out a lot through this whole buy. Changed my order a couple times (because of me not knowing much about the battery's) and has always replied to my emails pretty fast. It just sucks coming home from work with a new present waiting for me and when I opened it up the bulb was just hanging there from the wire. I'm sure your right it is because of the packaging. It def could or I guess should have been put in a box. The first thing my wife said was why isn't there fragile at least on the package. Speaking of that my package what pretty much perfect. I have one little ding on my light that you can't really even see. I wouldn 't care if there was a few dings gashes if the bulb was broken. Anyway, dealing with Ric when buying this light hasn't been the problem. He seems like a good guy and will get us fixed up. Just sucks I have the light and still have to wait to fire it up.


----------



## Fusion_m8

I don't think anyone here on the forum has anything personal against Ric, I was one of the 1st people to defend him when some early birds missed out on the GB coupon and tried to obligate Ric to give them the GB coupon discount in retrospect. Its the quality of service that some of us have issues with. Let's be straight about it and not confuse the two.


----------



## TEEJ

As I said in the CPFM thread, I doubt Ric packed the lights...the were sent from Senso Electric Tech, and THEY probably put them into a baggie and shipped them out. Ric/Ric's company essentially hired them to do that...by ordering the lights from them, etc...and is therefore responsible ultimately, but, to be fair, now that Ric KNOWS about this, from what I can tell, he's taking care of it.

That's about all he CAN do right now.

Anyone can make a mistake...how you respond to it is what separates the men from the boys.


----------



## spaz815

Fusion_m8 said:


> I don't think anyone here on the forum has anything personal against Ric, I was one of the 1st people to defend him when some early birds missed out on the GB coupon and tried to obligate Ric to give them the GB coupon discount in retrospect. Its the quality of service that some of us have issues with. Let's be straight about it and not confuse the two.



I'm not confused. Just telling how my experience was with the buy and I think Ric will be there for us to fix the problems.


----------



## BVH

Fusion_m8 said:


> I don't think anyone here on the forum has anything personal against Ric, I was one of the 1st people to defend him when some early birds missed out on the GB coupon and tried to obligate Ric to give them the GB coupon discount in retrospect.



Fusion, I'm going to assume you were referring to me in the above. You posted after me so I assume you read the chronology of my purchase posted in the buy thread? I may have ordered well in advance of the GB but the light did not ship until the day after the GB was offered by Ric. 9 full days to ship after I ordered. That, in itself is very poor customer service, especially when just about everyone else's lights shipped within 4-5 days of ordering. And then he waited until after it shipped to say no. That's pretty low in my book. And not once did I try to obligate him. I simply asked twice and then voiced my displeasure with his response.


----------



## Fusion_m8

TEEJ said:


> As I said in the CPFM thread, I doubt Ric packed the lights...the were sent from Senso Electric Tech, and THEY probably put them into a baggie and shipped them out. Ric/Ric's company essentially hired them to do that...by ordering the lights from them, etc...and is therefore responsible ultimately, but, to be fair, now that Ric KNOWS about this, from what I can tell, he's taking care of it.
> 
> That's about all he CAN do right now.
> 
> Anyone can make a mistake...how you respond to it is what separates the men from the boys.



Its obvious Ric himself didn't pack the lights, he cannot be in China and Singapore at the same time can he? Mine shipped from Singapore, whatever contractor he hired to do the distribution for him should be held resposible, but its obvious that whoever he hired was done so down to a price, not up to standard, and that my friend, is what astonishes me about CN Quality(not Ric himself mind you) after a few years in this business that they still think cutting corners is a great way to do business when it has shown time and time again it costs even more money in the end to rectify problems that could have been avoided in the first place. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure isn't it?



spaz815 said:


> I'm not confused. Just telling how my experience was with the buy and I think Ric will be there for us to fix the problems.



I'm with you a 100%, I'm concerned that people were getting the idea that I was "talking bad about Ric" so I just wanted to make things crystal clear about my intentions that whatever I said was no personal attack on Ric, but as an observation and opinion about CN Quality and their contractors's standard of taking orders, packing and shipping their items. 



BVH said:


> Fusion, I'm going to assume you were referring to me in the above. You posted after me so I assume you read the chronology of my purchase posted in the buy thread? I may have ordered well in advance of the GB but the light did not ship until the day after the GB was offered by Ric. 9 full days to ship after I ordered. That, in itself is very poor customer service, especially when just about everyone else's lights shipped within 4-5 days of ordering. And then he waited until after it shipped to say no. That's pretty low in my book. And not once did I try to obligate him. I simply asked twice and then voiced my displeasure with his response.



BVH, I don't understand why you think that post I made was directed at you? I was merely agreeing with what Ginseng said. However if you feel that I have singled you out in a unfavourable manner, let me make it clear right now, with all due respect, those were not my intentions.


----------



## Patriot

removed in light of Fusion's last post....

hugs all around.


----------



## Fusion_m8

Patriot said:


> removed in light of Fusion's last post....
> 
> hugs all around.



:grouphug: What's a bit of friendly fire between comrades eh?? That's what Flak Jackets are for right?


----------



## DM51

There's been a certain amount of cross-posting between this thread and the two in Dealer's Corner in CPFMP. 

Let's try to set some guidelines:

*1.* This thread is for discussion of the light itself.

*2.* The Sales Announcement thread in CPFMP is for sales-related discussions and questions.

*3.* The Shipping / Packaging Discussion thread in CPFMP is for discussing the issues that have arisen with lights damaged in transit etc.

Please would members stick to these guidelines as closely as possible, to help minimise confusion and duplication due to cross-posting.


----------



## spaz815

DM51 said:


> There's been a certain amount of cross-posting between this thread and the two in Dealer's Corner in CPFMP.
> 
> Let's try to set some guidelines:
> 
> *1.* This thread is for discussion of the light itself.
> 
> *2.* The Sales Announcement thread in CPFMP is for sales-related discussions and questions.
> 
> *3.* The Shipping / Packaging Discussion thread in CPFMP is for discussing the issues that have arisen with lights damaged in transit etc.
> 
> Please would members stick to these guidelines as closely as possible, to help minimise confusion and duplication due to cross-posting.



I've tried to reset my password for the market place a few times and I can't. As for the light. It seems great quality. Heavy and sturdy in the hand. I forgot to mention the battery's I bought from Ric work perfect with no problems fitting in the light. There the Protected Yezl.


----------



## Ginseng

DM51 said:


> There's been a certain amount of cross-posting between this thread and the two in Dealer's Corner in CPFMP.
> Let's try to set some guidelines:


DM51,
It has a bit of an undisciplined ride so far. Thanks for cleaning up the mess. I'll be sure that any further posts I make will be in the appropriate threads.
Wilkey


----------



## Tain

I soldered a LED on the battery carrier as a power indicator.:devil:


----------



## TEEJ

Tain said:


> I soldered a LED on the battery carrier as a power indicator.:devil:




Doesn't the light coming out of the OTHER end do the same thing?


----------



## Tain

I take the battery cartridge out, when not using the light. It is hard to tell if the switch is on or off before loading into the body.


----------



## Ginseng

TEEJ said:


> Doesn't the light coming out of the OTHER end do the same thing?


Oh snap!

I do see the utility of such a thing though. What if the switch were on, and in loading the cartridge, it bounced a bit against the head contact? Might this multiple, brief contacting damage the ballast or lamp?

Wilkey


----------



## spaz815

TEEJ said:


> Doesn't the light coming out of the OTHER end do the same thing?



Good mod. Thats a good idea.


----------



## TEEJ

So the indicator light would be on with no batteries to power it, if the switch was in the on position?

:shrug:

Oh, I get it...if the batteries are in the carrier, there's power...but until its inserted into the light, the HID won't fire up, etc.

I guess you don't turn the switch off before taking out the battery carrier/worry alot about accidentally switching it when the carrier is out?


----------



## Tain

TEEJ said:


> So the indicator light would be on with no batteries to power it, if the switch was in the on position?
> 
> :shrug:



The LED helps you to see if the switch is in the on or off position. You need to have all 4 batteries installed for the LED indicator to work.


----------



## TEEJ

LOL - You guys worry a lot.


----------



## Ginseng

TEEJ said:


> LOL - You guys worry a lot.


Duh. "Flash*aholic"*

Wilkey


----------



## Patriot

It's a pretty good idea really. Sometimes with the Boxer24W, the switch gets turned on while the carrier is out of the light and the LED is the only way that I know it's delivering power to pos. The clickie sounds a little bit different between on and off but sometimes it's a guess.

DHL should be dropping off my light today but it won't be in hand until late this evening.


----------



## BVH

Looks like I'm a bit late to the party but I finally made it. Fusion, OK, we're good, nuff said. Good idea, Tain!


----------



## Patriot

Received my light just now but am at work. Shipped in a plastic bag and tail cap is damaged. The head escaped the wood chipper that caught some of the others. I bough 4 x Ultra-Fire 18650s, the red "3000mah" cells for $6 each. I sanded down the sharp lip on the tube before ever trying to install batteries. After a nice chamfering the carrier fit snugly but wasn't tight. Light turned on first time. The beam is decent but like many HIDs has two focal points, the first narrow and the second a tiny hotspot with all flood. I'll weigh in a little later when I can do some proper testing....


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> Received my light just now but am at work. Shipped in a plastic bag and tail cap is damaged. The head escaped the wood chipper that caught some of the others. I bough 4 x Ultra-Fire 18650s, the red "3000mah" cells for $6 each. I sanded down the sharp lip on the tube before ever trying to install batteries. After a nice chamfering the carrier fit snugly but wasn't tight. Light turned on first time. The beam is decent but like many HIDs has two focal points, the first narrow and the second a tiny hotspot with all flood. I'll weigh in a little later when I can do some proper testing....



As always, we await your pearls of insight.


----------



## Ginseng

Patriot said:


> Received my light just now but am at work. Shipped in a plastic bag and tail cap is damaged. The head escaped the wood chipper that caught some of the others. I bough 4 x Ultra-Fire 18650s, the red "3000mah" cells for $6 each. I sanded down the sharp lip on the tube before ever trying to install batteries. After a nice chamfering the carrier fit snugly but wasn't tight. Light turned on first time. The beam is decent but like many HIDs has two focal points, the first narrow and the second a tiny hotspot with all flood. I'll weigh in a little later when I can do some proper testing....


Patriot,
Please post your pictures and observations on receipt of the light and its condition in the CPF Marketplace thread here.

Wilkey


----------



## Patriot

Ginseng said:


> Patriot,
> Please post your pictures and observations on receipt of the light and its condition in the CPF Marketplace thread here.
> 
> Wilkey



Will do, just as soon as I get home. Already took pictures of the packaging...



Just curious how many lights are marked "Magic Scorpion" like mine and how many are marked "Magic Fire"


Thanks


----------



## Ginseng

Patriot said:


> Just curious how many lights are marked "Magic Scorpion" like mine and how many are marked "Magic Fire"


Mine is a Scorpion.

Wilkey


----------



## TEEJ

Mine says Gashfire


----------



## Patriot

TEEJ said:


> Mine says Gashfire




Only my tailcap says Gashfire, the head says Magic Scorpion. Now that I look at some of the older pictures, many of them are marked Magic Scorpion.


----------



## kashmir

I have had my light since Wednesday but just got around to ordering the cells today.
I didn't notice any markings on the battery carrier for positive or negative. I'm assuming (looking at other carriers) that the negative end of the cell goes against the spring? Sorry for the noob question but with all the issues with this light (gashes on the tailcap, gashes on the bezel, not knowing if its DOA) I don't want to fark it up!

Thanks guys, 
Don

p.s. Mine says MagicFire on one side of the tube and MagicScorpion on the other side of the tube along with a serial #


----------



## Ginseng

kashmir said:


> I have had my light since Wednesday but just got around to ordering the cells today.
> I didn't notice any markings on the battery carrier for positive or negative. I'm assuming (looking at other carriers) that the negative end of the cell goes against the spring? Sorry for the noob question but with all the issues with this light (gashes on the tailcap, gashes on the bezel, not knowing if its DOA) I don't want to fark it up!
> 
> Thanks guys,
> Don
> 
> p.s. Mine says MagicFire on one side of the tube and MagicScorpion on the other side of the tube along with a serial #


Wow, a fiery scorpion.

The negative end goes against the spring.

Wilkey


----------



## kashmir

Thought so

Thanks (again) for the help Wilkey!

Don


----------



## Patriot

Easy way to remember is that the switch end matches up with the tailcap kashmir.


----------



## Patriot

Other than the gashed tail cap and tight Ultra-Fire 3000mah cells, the light actually performs pretty well. It out throws the SR90 by a small margin and although I haven't measured throw lux I'm guessing it's 115,000+. The hot spot is very small compared to the SR90s relatively large hot spot but the MF has slightly better lux. 

Here are the ceiling bounce figures with the Abyss and Magic Fire.... no video yet though. 

*Added Note: This light behaves very similarly to the K3500 and Boxer24W with regards to how it warms up. The batteries were only about 50% capacity when I tested ceiling bounce lux. I'll retest it tomorrow and post a video on fresh cells. Initial numbers might be a bit low since these inexpensive HIDs don't hold perfect regulation. More voltage usually means slightly more output.*


Jil Lite EZNite 10W HID 4 x "3V" RCR123s 
*28* lux stabilized at 1:15 
*45* lux peak at 14 sec 

Jil Lite EZNite 10W HID 4 x 4.2V AW RCR123s (Seriously Overdriven)
*56* lux stabilized at 1:10
*84* lux peak at 16 sec


AE Light PL24/S 24W HID
*100* lux stabilized at 1:00 
*101* lux peak


Wolf Eyes Boxer 24W HID 
*151* lux stabilized at 1:35 
*152* lux peak

Olight SR90
*245* lux high
*64 *lux low

Microfire Warrior K3500 35W HID
*305* lux stabilized at 1:30 
*310* lux peak


Costco / Harbor Freight 35W HID 
*296* lux stabilized at 1:10 
*419* lux peak at 35 sec.

Magic Scorpion "40W" HID
*324 *lux stabilized at 1:25
*326* lux peak at 1:15

Power on Board 35W HID
*326* lux stabilized at 1:35
*333* lux peak at 2:00

Polarion Abyss Dual S 30W-45W @ 45W
*624* lux stabilized at 54 sec. 45W
*946* lux peak at 8 sec. 45W

Polarion Abyss Dual S 30W-45W @30W
*276* lux stabilized at 46 sec. 30W
*404* lux peak at 11 sec. 30W

Polarion PH50 Helios 50W HID
*650* lux stabilized at 50 sec.
*1000* lux peak at 9 sec.


Polarion Night Reaper (CSWL) 50+W HID
*740* lux stabilized at 1:00
*1134* lux peak at 11 sec.


----------



## mohanjude

Looking at the lux figures the MF MS looks like the output is 324 lux which is similar to POB 35W at 326 and is more than the Abyss at 30W. So am I right in assuming the output is around 36W which is the the roughly the current draw I had on my unit. It also looks to be an improvement on the micro fire warrior and costco 35W HID lights.


----------



## Patriot

mohanjude said:


> Looking at the lux figures the MF MS looks like the output is 324 lux which is similar to POB 35W at 326 and is more than the Abyss at 30W. So am I right in assuming the output is around 36W which is the the roughly the current draw I had on my unit. It also looks to be an improvement on the micro fire warrior and costco 35W HID lights.




I think you're close on all acounts... I'll call it a 35W light.

Essentially, it ties the 35W POB for luminus flux, which is pretty good! 

It's a decent improvement over the MF K3500 but in a smaller form factor, with a better battery system, and with better color temperature. Speaking of the color, it's not quite as warm as the Polarion's. If the Polarion is 4300K I'm guessing this light is 4500-4600K. A really pleasing color actually! 

Beam artifacts really aren't terrible and I'd put them on par with the K3500 or smooth WE Boxer. Color consistency is much better than a WE Boxer, AE24W or AE25W. The beam doesn't 'rainbow' much when rolling or tipping the light up or down. I suspect that's because it's not under driving the bulb like the aforementioned lights. Also, it doesn't flicker like the under driven K3500. I've noticed that the arc tends to wander around on under driven HIDs even when the light is sitting on a table perfectly still. The Magic-Fire doesn't do that. 

Other than the tight batteries which required a gun-smithing chamfering tool on the battery tube, saving a lot of sanding, the light appears to be okay so far. I was hoping for at least 35W and it seems that I got it. As mentioned before, the batteries were at 50-60% discharge when I tested the output. I'm recharging the same cells now and will perform the test a second time tomorrow. I suspect the output might increase a small amount.


----------



## DM51

TEEJ said:


> Mine says Gashfire





Patriot said:


> my tailcap says Gashfire



Yay, new ****fire name.  :ironic:

FWIW, "Gash" is a nautical term for Trash/Garbage. :sick2: :green: LOL


----------



## TEEJ

DM51 said:


> Yay, new ****fire name.  :ironic:
> 
> FWIW, "Gash" is a nautical term for Trash/Garbage. :sick2: :green: LOL



LOL

Its slang for a few things....


----------



## Lips

BVH said:


> It has a slightly pinkish hue as do the L35 and N30.
> 
> 
> 
> OK now for the beamshots at 350 Yards




*These too pics are a nice comparison of output and beam characteristics. Sounds like it may be a little variation in output between lights... 

Anybody else have a N30 or L35 for more beamshots!
*



Magic Scorpion - not a really usable light at 350 Yards - too floody with small reflector








N30 - Usable at 350


----------



## RichS

.....


----------



## mohanjude

RichS said:


> Don't know if anyone can help me out here, but I can't seem to find any tracking info on my shipment that was sent 9 days ago. Should I be using another site to check the status? I paid for DHL not EMS shipping.
> The tracking number is: RF077816339SG - http://www.speedpost.com.sg/




Here you go...


RF077816339SG
Despatch No.:	4119
Beat No.:	
*
Status Date	Status Description
29-02-2012	INFORMATION RECEIVED*
(This is not an acknowledgment of the physical receipt of the stated Registered Article)
02-03-2012	Despatched to overseas (Country code: US)
06-03-2012	Arrived at overseas (Country code: US)


And on USPS.com ( the tracking number works here)



RF077816339SG
Processed Through Sort Facility
March 06, 2012, 6:13 am
ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)*
Registered Mail™
Origin Post is Preparing Shipment
Processed Through Sort Facility
March 02, 2012, 5:22 pm
SINGAPORE,*SINGAPORE


----------



## mohanjude

Better post shipment related issues on the other thread


----------



## Ginseng

Yes, please head over to the CPF Marketplace. I suggest posting in this thread first. 

BTW, that doesn't look like a DHL number.

Wilkey


----------



## Patriot

Some pictures everyone....

Next to a few other lights





Some beam shots at 15 feet















Peak lux of 237 at 56 sec. with fully charged cells. Slightly more output than a 35W POB (sorry about the fuzzy pic)





2.22lbs (1.010kg) with 4 x 18650 Ultra-Fire "3000mah" cells





After 20 minutes of run time















Notice the gap left between the head and the bezel when the light is at ideal focus





*Calculated lux at 1m (measured at 5m) 
Magic Fire 138,000 (My SR90 measures 107,500)

Estimated lumens, based on other know lights (ceiling bouce)
3150-3250*


Jil Lite EZNite 10W HID 4 x "3V" RCR123s 
*28* lux stabilized at 1:15 
*45* lux peak at 14 sec 

Jil Lite EZNite 10W HID 4 x 4.2V AW RCR123s (Seriously Overdriven)
*56* lux stabilized at 1:10
*84* lux peak at 16 sec


AE Light PL24/S 24W HID
*100* lux stabilized at 1:00 
*101* lux peak


Wolf Eyes Boxer 24W HID 
*151* lux stabilized at 1:35 
*152* lux peak

Olight SR90
*245* lux high
*64 *lux low

Microfire Warrior K3500 35W HID
*305* lux stabilized at 1:30 
*310* lux peak


Costco / Harbor Freight 35W HID 
*296* lux stabilized at 1:10 
*419* lux peak at 35 sec.

Magic Scorpion "40W" HID
*327 *lux stabilized at 1:15 sec
*328* lux peak at 56 sec

Power on Board 35W HID
*326* lux stabilized at 1:35
*333* lux peak at 2:00

Polarion Abyss Dual S 30W-45W @ 45W
*624* lux stabilized at 54 sec. 45W
*946* lux peak at 8 sec. 45W

Polarion Abyss Dual S 30W-45W @30W
*276* lux stabilized at 46 sec. 30W
*404* lux peak at 11 sec. 30W

Polarion PH50 Helios 50W HID
*650* lux stabilized at 50 sec.
*1000* lux peak at 9 sec.


Polarion Night Reaper (CSWL) 50+W HID
*740* lux stabilized at 1:00
*1134* lux peak at 11 sec.


----------



## RichS

mohanjude said:


> Here you go...



Thanks mohanjude!!! Sorry, should have asked this question elsewhere.

Patriot - thank you so much for the detailed performance information! I am now, once again, very excited for my light to be delivered!!


----------



## spaz815

Good review Patriot. Good to know it's going to be good bright light when I get my new bulb. Your just getting me more excited to see my light fired up in person.


----------



## Wildlands

Patriot said:


> Other than the tight batteries which required a gun-smithing chamfering tool on the battery tube...



I have a chamfering tool, but I don't think mine works on artillery. I need to borrow yours


----------



## jefft

Interesting, mine was received poorly packaged, too but cosmetically perfect. No sharp lip inside battery tube that required dremel assistance, either. Unfortunately, beyond a few starting flickers, the light doesn't work. Hopes were raised after the first run DRY torch that I purchased from Ric. Internal fit and finish as befits a budget HID


----------



## Ginseng

jefft said:


> Interesting, mine was received poorly packaged, too but cosmetically perfect. No sharp lip inside battery tube that required dremel assistance, either. Unfortunately, beyond a few starting flickers, the light doesn't work. Hopes were raised after the first run DRY torch that I purchased from Ric. Internal fit and finish as befits a budget HID


This might be an obvious question, but are the cells you're using up to the task? Reports are that it could pull 4-6 A on strike. Before I got my new set of AW3100, I used some AW17670 I had lying about and my unit sparked, lit up, and then promptly shut down after a second or two.

Wilkey


----------



## jefft

Wilkey, I've tried a set of Callie's Kustoms, redilast, and AW's. When I get back home I was going to try a set of AW IMRs, too.


----------



## Ginseng

Ah. It doesn't look too good, I'm afraid.

Wilkey


----------



## BVH

Ginseng said:


> ........... Reports are that it could pull 4-6 A on strike...........
> 
> Wilkey



My amprobe's very first reading of the strike Amperage is 6.3 and I'm sure there's a micro-second of display delay when it's even higher. I'd guess 6.5 to 7 Amps.


----------



## Ginseng

BVH said:


> My amprobe's very first reading of the strike Amperage is 6.3 and I'm sure there's a micro-second of display delay when it's even higher. I'd guess 6.5 to 7 Amps.


That's fairly beefy. Does anyone have any idea at what point these protected cells' protection kicks in? It's some sort of temperature-triggered limiter isn't it? Or have I got that totally wrong being an electrophobe.

Wilkey


----------



## TEEJ

Mines been firing up on fairly ordinary Tenergy 2600 18650's.


----------



## Patriot

Ginseng said:


> It's some sort of temperature-triggered limiter isn't it? Or have I got that totally wrong being an electrophobe.
> 
> Wilkey




I think the current is set differently in each manufacturer's protected cell based off of each cell's safe performance limits. If I'm understanding it correctly that 6-7A workload is being shared / divided by four big cells in the case of the Magic Fire, so the actual current is more like 1.5A per cell which isn't much. Typical safe sustained discharge rate for a single li-ion cell is 2C or 5000mA for a 2500mah cell. Instantaneous or spike current protection might be set a bit higher though. BVH or other battery dudes please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Temperature is one of the limiting triggers for a good quality cell but there are others as well...

Excessive current during charging or discharging, 
Over voltage 
Under voltage 
Short circuit 
High ambient temperature
Pressure build up inside the cell


----------



## BVH

The MFMS batteries are in Series (accumulating Voltage, not Amp hours) so each cell is seeing the 6+ Amp draw for a micro-second. (That's probably close to a 100 Watt, micro-second draw!) If in parallel, then Amp Hrs accumulate and load is divided over number of cells. I am not an expert but I believe the current trip is actually based on sensed current flow. Usually there are other protection circuits in the PCB as Patriot mentioned, of which temp may be one.


----------



## Ginseng

Fascinating. Thank you for the informative reply. This could explain why the 1600 mAh 17670 trip out but most 18650 of 2200 mAh or more do not. 

Wilkey


----------



## Patriot

Wow! Each cell when in series. Thanks for the good info BVH. Always appreciate your insight.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

BVH said:


> The MFMS batteries are in Series (accumulating Voltage, not Amp hours) so each cell is seeing the 6+ Amp draw for a micro-second. (That's probably close to a 100 Watt, micro-second draw!) If in parallel, then Amp Hrs accumulate and load is divided over number of cells. I am not an expert but I believe the current trip is actually based on sensed current flow. Usually there are other protection circuits in the PCB as Patriot mentioned, of which temp may be one.



+1 That's right. My MF levels out at 2.35a for example. Since it's in series, that's about 16v running x 2.35 = 37.6w. On startup I see 4.07a (it could be that my DMM isn't fast enough to read that first millsecond of higher startup amperage, I don't know). This is with Redilast 2900s. I suspect that the startup (as well as running) amperage would be higher with lower quality cells due to the driver compensating for more voltage drop that occurs with lower quality cells.


----------



## BVH

Colonel Sanders said:


> +1 That's right. My MF levels out at 2.35a for example. Since it's in series, that's about 16v running x 2.35 = 37.6w. On startup I see 4.07a (it could be that my DMM isn't fast enough to read that first millsecond of higher startup amperage, I don't know). This is with Redilast 2900s. I suspect that the startup (as well as running) amperage would be higher with lower quality cells due to the driver compensating for more voltage drop that occurs with lower quality cells.



Sad to see someone else has a 29-30 Watt output light. I thought I would be all alone. My Amprobe is a very expensive (for what it is) high accuracy milliamp capable meter. I would hope and expect that it would be quick to display results.


----------



## Fusion_m8

Just a friendly reminder:

Here's a great article with nice graphic pictures about using untrusted and unproven brands of 18650s(ULTRAFIRE in this case) in a high current application where 2 or more cells are connected in series. Remember the risk of cells exploding increases proportionally with the number of cells connected in series.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?280909-Ultrafire-18650-3000mA-exploded

If unprotected cells are being connected in series, use safe chemistry cells such as AW IMR or Panasonic CGR cells to minimise risk of explosions/fire.


----------



## DM51

jefft said:


> Interesting, mine was received poorly packaged, too but cosmetically perfect. No sharp lip inside battery tube that required dremel assistance, either. Unfortunately, beyond a few starting flickers, the light doesn't work. Hopes were raised after the first run DRY torch that I purchased from Ric. Internal fit and finish as befits a budget HID


Please could you also post this information in this thread in CPFMP, where there is a discussion about the large number of these lights that have been received in damaged/defective condition.


----------



## ez78

My light arrived from Singapore. I got lucky. It doesn't have any exterior damage. There was some styrofoam under the bubble wrapping. The light works but is under powered just like BVH's unit. I measured 2.2 amps with AW's 2600mAh batteries. Didn't measure volts under use so I don't know the exact power draw but it should be around 35 watts from the batteries and under 30 watts to the bulb. I tried it last night and it's still quite nice regarding power to size ratio.

By the way my AW 2600mAh did not fit in the light. Trustfire "flame" 2400mAh batteries did fit.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

BVH said:


> Sad to see someone else has a 29-30 Watt output light. I thought I would be all alone. My Amprobe is a very expensive (for what it is) high accuracy milliamp capable meter. I would hope and expect that it would be quick to display results.



The Amprobe is what I'm using also. I should point out that though not a true 40w to the bulb, this is one VERY impressive light for the size (fits just fine in my coat pocket.) After adjusting the reflector depth I am 100% satisfied with this light. It certainly out performs my Stanley and is worlds more portible...fits nicely in the hand and is fairly well balanced.


----------



## Patriot

Having used the light for a week, there are a few things that I really like about it. However, there are 5 issues that would improve value, usability and potentially increase this light's status among end users, primarily the CPF crowd. 

If you're listening Ric, here they are...

1) Increase the width of the battery compartment to allow for a wider range of 18650s, especially those with higher capacities. Even .0100 would help greatly in this area.

2) Chamfer / bevel the interior edge of the battery tube. Even when there's ample cell clearance it's just asking for trouble to have a 90° machined edge present, ready to peel back the protective covering of expensive cells.

3) Get rid of the two solder blobs on the head of the light. If you load or unload the batteries from the head side, the blobs hook the the battery carrier contact springs and bend them. Alternately, fix issues 1 & 2 and give specific instructions to only load from the tail cap side. I recommend removing the blobs regardless. 

4) Offer this light with both smooth and orange peel reflectors. It's not really a throw HID due to its compactness and although some will take all of the throw this design can achieve, others would appreciate a smoother, all purpose beam. 

5)Update the ballast to provide an actual 40 watts or simply change the advertising description to 35W Magic Fire. Each of us who purchased this light before BVH's tests bought on the notion that we were sending money for a 40W ultra-compact HID. Turns out it's only 29-36W, depending on sample variation. Frankly, I'm not disappointed with the output considering the size and price. A 35W light results in a bit more run-time and lower exterior temperatures as compared to a 40W version. I just like to know exactly what I'm buying regardless. 


The Magic Fire doesn't replace dedicated, top tier, HID search lights and wasn't designed to. However, it could certainly fit the bill as a recreational light for walking the dog, taking night time nature hikes, zoo nights or other non-critical activities. At under $200 shipped, I think the Magic Fire is a solid HID with a conventional form factor. It sets itself apart from the proprietary battery packs and baseball bat sized HIDs of the ebay variety. If these few, mostly minor things were addressed I think this light would earn credit with the CPF community. The shipping issues are being addressed elsewhere.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

+1 to all the above. 

As a side note that bears repeating to all current MF owners, do yourself a favor and screw the bezel/reflector out a bit. You will be pleasantly surprised with how this affects the beam pattern and reduces the artifacts of the beam. I wish I had realized this could be done on day one. It really is a solid performer with just the few issues above that need to be addressed. Most are easily fixed with just a little effort and a dremel but these are certainly issues that should not be present to begin with.


----------



## BVH

+2 to all the above with comments below.

1. An additional .025" inside diameter of the tube is all that is really needed in my opinion. Looks like the tube wall thickness at the bottom of the thread groove might be around .090". I'd guess that an additional .025" (.0125" per wall) increase in bore size would be possible without increasing tube OD, leaving a wall thickness of about .0775".

2. There's more than a couple reports of 29+ Watts from those who can and have tested. I would guess that the majority of the lights are in the 29 - 30 Watt range. As Patriot states, when advertised as a 40 watt, that's what is expected + or - a Watt, possibly 2. If it's really 30, then so be it but call it that.



Patriot said:


> Having used the light for a week, there are a few things that I really like about it. However, there are 5 issues that would improve value, usability and potentially increase this light's status among end users, primarily the CPF crowd.
> 
> If you're listening Ric, here they are...
> 
> 1) Increase the width of the battery compartment to allow for a wider range of 18650s, especially those with higher capacities. Even .0100 would help greatly in this area.
> 
> 2) Chamfer / bevel the interior edge of the battery tube. Even when there's ample cell clearance it's just asking for trouble to have a 90° machined edge present, ready to peel back the protective covering of expensive cells.
> 
> 3) Get rid of the two solder blobs on the head of the light. If you load or unload the batteries from the head side, the blobs hook the the battery carrier contact springs and bend them. Alternately, fix issues 1 & 2 and give specific instructions to only load from the tail cap side. I recommend removing the blobs regardless.
> 
> 4) Offer this light with both smooth and orange peel reflectors. It's not really a throw HID due to its compactness and although some will take all of the throw this design can achieve, others would appreciate a smoother, all purpose beam.
> 
> 5)Update the ballast to provide an actual 40 watts or simply change the advertising description to 35W Magic Fire. Each of us who purchased this light before BVH's tests bought on the notion that we were sending money for a 40W ultra-compact HID. Turns out it's only 32-36W, depending on sample variation. Frankly, I'm not disappointed with the output considering the size and price. A 35W light results in a bit more run-time and lower exterior temperatures as compared to a 40W version. I just like to know exactly what I'm buying regardless.
> 
> 
> The Magic Fire doesn't replace dedicated, top tier, HID search lights and wasn't designed to. However, it could certainly fit the bill as a recreational light for walking the dog, taking night time nature hikes, zoo nights or other non-critical activities. At under $200 shipped, I think the Magic Fire is a solid HID with a conventional form factor. It sets itself apart from the proprietary battery packs and baseball bat sized HIDs of the ebay variety. If these few, mostly minor things were addressed I think this light would earn credit with the CPF community. The shipping issues are being addressed elsewhere.


----------



## RichS

So my Magic Fire arrived today.. it came in the dreaded envelope with a couple wraps of bubble-wrap.

I nervously opened the package....





































Perfect!! I was thrilled that it was in mint condition with no dings, scratches, or anything. It even came with an extra full set of o-rings and an extra switch. My AW 3100 batteries fit in the light via the tail cap with a little bit of wiggling. Hit the button and....light!! This thing is actually an amazing little light! My Stanley 35W wasn't charged to compare it with yet, but it has an amazing amount of output in such a small light, and the throw is great for how relatively small the reflector is. Feels solid as a rock, the knurling is perfect...I'm loving me some Magic Scorpion!!!

Beam shots to follow...:devil:

So, question - is there another HID this compact that has more output? (at any price)


----------



## Ginseng

RichS said:


> So, question - is there another HID this compact that has more output?


I'm guessing not for $180 bucks.

I continue to be very happy with my unit's 30+ watt performance.

Wilkey


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> There's more than a couple reports of 29+ Watts from those who can and have tested. I would guess that the majority of the lights are in the 29 - 30 Watt range. As Patriot states, when advertised as a 40 watt, that's what is expected + or - a Watt, possibly 2. If it's really 30, then so be it but call it that.




Thanks for the reminder Bob. I edited my post to reflect that *29-35W* reality. There's really no way this should be called a 40W light. It would really be good of Ric and I'd respect him that much more if he altered the stated specifications of this light to "35W Max" 





RichS, you're light looks like the models pictured in the sales thread! Thank goodness a few CPFers are receiving these the way they ought to come. Glad to hear that you're happy.


----------



## Patriot

RichS said:


> So, question - is there another HID this compact that has more output? (at any price)




Yes, the 35W & 40W Firefox lights but availability might be a problem. Member ma_sha1 owns one or both, can't remember.


----------



## Ginseng

Colonel Sanders said:


> +1 to all the above.
> 
> As a side note that bears repeating to all current MF owners, do yourself a favor and screw the bezel/reflector out a bit. You will be pleasantly surprised with how this affects the beam pattern and reduces the artifacts of the beam. I wish I had realized this could be done on day one. It really is a solid performer with just the few issues above that need to be addressed. Most are easily fixed with just a little effort and a dremel but these are certainly issues that should not be present to begin with.


Just to clarify,
It seems there is some variation in the location of the sweet spot. Some need the bezel screwed way out. Mine, however, focuses most tightly only 3/4 of a turn from totally screwed down. So the lesson is play around a bit...just don't crush the return wire.

Wilkey


----------



## Tain

RichS said:


> So, question - is there another HID this compact that has more output? (at any price)



Magic Fire has announced 65W HID(6000lm), the body is exactly same with Magic Fire 40W HID. They will offer 65W upgrade kit for 40W owners. The release date is TBA.

Fire-Foxes will release a compact 40W HID with in 1~2 month. 
Length: 149mm
Weight: 420g(w/o 4x18650 batteries)
They are releasing a batch of 40 samples today. I will try to get one and compare it to MF 40W.


----------



## TEEJ

Tain said:


> Magic Fire has announced 65W HID(6000lm), the body is exactly same with Magic Fire 40W HID. They will offer 65W upgrade kit for 40W owners. The release date is TBA.
> 
> Fire-Foxes will release a compact 40W HID with in 1~2 month.
> Length: 149mm
> Weight: 420g(w/o 4x18650 batteries)
> They are releasing a batch of 40 samples today. I will try to get one and compare it to MF 40W.




LOL - Figures


----------



## spaz815

TEEJ said:


> LOL - Figures



Thats what I said when I read that.


----------



## BVH

Just posted in Ric's thread asking about this.


----------



## TEEJ

Let me guess, the upgrade kit will end up costing $30...and be delivered in paper boats from China, blown by the winds of commerce.


----------



## Tain

BVH said:


> Just posted in Ric's thread asking about this.



Both the upgrade kits and 65watt HID lights are not available to the public yet.


----------



## nitekayak

I finally received a set of 18650 AW3100s. My light works fine with these cells! With the JetBeam 2300mAH cells it would just flicker then cut out altogether. Using the JetBeams, I was almost instantaneously tripping the PCB in one of the four cells. The battery would recover if power was immediately removed. If I left the light on for 2-3 seconds, the PCB would latch and the battery would indicate 0 Volts until it was placed onto the charger. This was definitely not a malfunction and part of the cell’s design intent, as it would occur in any one of the 8 cells, as I discovered by rotating the mix. 

After installing the AW3100s, I measured the current on first strike and found it would peak my Fluke 87 at > 10 Amps. Both 1 msec and 100 msec recording intervals yielded the same result. Once the inrush current would drop off, I was reading ~4.4 Amps at 14.2V (~61 Watts input). 

As Patriot stated, it appears different manufacturers are using PCBs with varying thresholds.

I found a specification sheet for a 3.7V Lion Battery Protection Circuit.
This shows one manufacturer’s design thresholds and monitoring parameters. 
I could not find which particular cell size this PCB was designed for:
Over-charge protection voltage: 4.300V+/- 0.050V
Over-discharge protection voltage: 2.40V +/- 0.100V
Over-current protection voltage: 2.2-3.4A
Maximal continuous discharging current: 2A
Maximal current consumption: 10uA
Short circuit protection: Automatic Recovery
Protection circuitry resistance: =< 65mOhm

Anyway, I’m a happy camper now that my light turned out not to be DOA after all. I have a set of AW IMR18650s on the way, but since the higher capacity AW3100s are working out, they will be relegated to being my backup batteries. Here are some charts showing how Voltage/Amperage/Wattage vary with time during the startup/warmup phase. The Ballast Output Power assumes 90% efficiency for the electronic ballast. This seems to align with what I've read about low wattage metal halide ballasts.


----------



## mohanjude

Looks like you also have a ballast that is consuming more power than the average. I was getting similar readings on current draw - average 2.6-2.8amps at stabilised voltage of around 15.8V

Having used the light for around 2 weeks now it is clear that when the batteries are low on their charge the 'PCB' is tripping. I can only assume that some of the other members lights that would flicker on and not worked may be in a similar situation and not really DOA.


----------



## kashmir

:wave: Finally got my AW 3100 cells in and charged. Dremeled out the bottom of the body and wiggled in the battery carrier and.......it fired up! I know i'm late to the party but I had to tell someone (I told my wife and she just replied "well isn't it supposed to work with new batteries")? A few artifacts on a white wall but sounds like most of you guys saw the same thing. Ric offered to refund something for the damage but I told him to hold off till I made sure the thing worked. I ended up charging the cells one at a time on my Pila because it kept terminating charge at 4.15-4.16 even after hitting the reset button.


----------



## TEEJ

kashmir said:


> :wave: Finally got my AW 3100 cells in and charged. Dremeled out the bottom of the body and wiggled in the battery carrier and.......it fired up! I know i'm late to the party but I had to tell someone (I told my wife and she just replied "well isn't it supposed to work with new batteries")? A few artifacts on a white wall but sounds like most of you guys saw the same thing. Ric offered to refund something for the damage but I told him to hold off till I made sure the thing worked. *I ended up charging the cells one at a time on my Pila because it kept terminating charge at 4.15-4.16 even after hitting the reset button*.



OW

Its 4.20 +/- 0.05 v

That means 4.15 v is GOOD.

Over charging shortens the cell life....and the difference in run time between getting another 0.05 v or so in there is not worth it.


----------



## nitekayak

kashmir said:


> :wave: I told my wife and she just replied "well isn't it supposed to work with new batteries".



Haha! My Wife asked me "What's in the bag?". When I told her it was just another flashlight, she replied "You have issues". I guess it's sometimes hard to understand the passion!


----------



## TEEJ

nitekayak said:


> Haha! My Wife asked me "What's in the bag?". When I told her it was just another flashlight, she replied "You have issues". I guess it's sometimes hard to understand the passion!



LOL

That's why I have stuff delivered at WORK (Justification = I USE them for work....).

So I only have coworkers think I "Have Issues".


----------



## kashmir

TEEJ said:


> OW
> 
> Its 4.20 +/- 0.05 v
> 
> That means 4.15 v is GOOD.
> 
> Over charging shortens the cell life....and the difference in run time between getting another 0.05 v or so in there is not worth it.




 I think I better just take them off the charger when it says they're done, thanks. For what those cells cost, I don't need shorter shelf life


----------



## Patriot

kashmir said:


> I think I better just take them off the charger when it says they're done, thanks. For what those cells cost, I don't need shorter shelf life




Well, it's not that 4.2V is out of spec either. But like was stated, it's not going to make much of a difference in run-time on a 3-4A draw light.


----------



## Patriot

Tain said:


> Fire-Foxes will release a compact 40W HID with in 1~2 month.
> Length: 149mm
> Weight: 420g(w/o 4x18650 batteries)
> They are releasing a batch of 40 samples today. I will try to get one and compare it to MF 40W.




The "65W" 48W actual Magic Fire doesn't grab my attention much but the Fire-Foxes do. Can you point us to some information about them.

Thanks!


----------



## TEEJ

LOL

4.2 v IS spec...but if you get +/- 0.05 v withing that, its fine...and a tad under is better than a tad over, as far as long term durability goes.

And, yup, I think it'll run out of amps before volts become important.


----------



## Ginseng

Patriot said:


> The "65W" 48W actual Magic Fire doesn't grab my attention much but the Fire-Foxes do. Can you point us to some information about them.
> Thanks!


He's been a bit coy. Perhaps one of the Chinese vendors or a Chinese CPF member can help out. There's clearly interest. 

Wilkey


----------



## Fusion_m8

nitekayak said:


> Haha! My Wife asked me "What's in the bag?". When I told her it was just another flashlight, she replied "You have issues". I guess it's sometimes hard to understand the passion!



WTH??? I bet you own less flashlights than she owns pairs of shoes/handbags...


----------



## ma_sha1

Patriot said:


> The "65W" 48W actual Magic Fire doesn't grab my attention much but the Fire-Foxes do. Can you point us to some information about them.
> 
> Thanks!




The FF3 pictures were out for a few month now, didn't want to post here, yet another unobtainium.

Since it's been brought up. might as well...

Left. 40W FF2, this was what the magic fire templated upon, Magic fire is similar to FF2 in size.

Middle, 35W FF1, the original one that was a small custom run only, before FF turned commercial operations & produced FF2. 
FF1 still the slimest of the family, it's already incredibally small for a full power HID!

Right, the 40W FF3. Now, since many of you just got the magic fire, imagine real 40W out at almost half the size? un freakenbeliveable






FF3


----------



## Tain

Patriot said:


> The "65W" 48W actual Magic Fire doesn't grab my attention much but the Fire-Foxes do. Can you point us to some information about them.
> 
> Thanks!



It's MF 40watt HID thread. I will keep it brief. 

Fire-Foxes III 40watt HID. 
*Length: 149mm
*Weight: 420gram w/o batteries
*Output: 4000+lm, 4300K, 40Watt, 
*Battery: 4 x 18650
*Integrated Thermal protection circuit prevents overheating - 24w when thermal protection kicks in. 
*short-circuit protection
*Reverse polarity protection
*Over discharging protection
*Low voltage indicator 

FF2 26000lux MAX @ 3 meter
FF2 24000lux stable @ 3 meter

FF3 26000lux MAX @ 3 meter
FF3 22000lux stable @ 3 meter

FF2 298lux @ 2 meter ceiling bounce
FF3 333lux @ 2 meter ceiling bounce

FF is shipping the first batch of 40 lights on March 20. They were sold out on Chinese flea bay in less than 30sec. I was lucky to bought one. I wll do some reviews when mine arrives.


----------



## Ginseng

nitekayak said:


> I finally received a set of 18650 AW3100s.


Thank you very much for this informative post. 4A steady state seems pretty darn high. That's a pretty sizeable reduction in runtime, is it not?

Wilkey


----------



## nitekayak

Ginseng said:


> Thank you very much for this informative post. 4A steady state seems pretty darn high. That's a pretty sizeable reduction in runtime, is it not?
> 
> Wilkey



Well, I'm only seeing the 4A draw during the warmup interval. Once it stabilizes, it's a little over 2.5A. I'm quite a bit happier with it's performance over the Microfire 24W K2000 that I have. Much warmer color temp and better throw and spill (although not as warm as the AmondoTech). For $180, I'm not going to complain at all. I wonder how much the FF3 costs?


----------



## nitekayak

Fusion_m8 said:


> WTH??? I bet you own less flashlights than she owns pairs of shoes/handbags...



She just discreetly bought a $325 Coach purse a few Months ago, so she doesn't have much ground to stand on . Maybe I need to make another purchase just to keep up!


----------



## Ginseng

nitekayak said:


> Well, I'm only seeing the 4A draw during the warmup interval. Once it stabilizes, it's a little over 2.5A.


Got it. Thanks!

Wilkey


----------



## Ginseng

Guys,
My second MFMS has just come in and while cosmetically perfect, the bulb seems to be off center as the hotspot is skewed. Would you recommend unscrewing the bezel and giving the bulb a little nudge?
Wilkey


----------



## TEEJ

Fusion_m8 said:


> WTH??? I bet you own less flashlights than she owns pairs of shoes/handbags...





I have more lights, than she has shoes or handbags.

:devil:


----------



## TEEJ

nitekayak said:


> She just discreetly bought a $325 Coach purse a few Months ago, so she doesn't have much ground to stand on . Maybe I need to make another purchase just to keep up!



LOL

My wife got a larger pocketbook, and I convinced her she would need a light to be able to find things in it now...so I ordered a Tritium lantern, as there's no WAY in HELL she's going to take care of batteries, etc...


----------



## BVH

Ginseng said:


> Guys,
> My second MFMS has just come in and while cosmetically perfect, the bulb seems to be off center as the hotspot is skewed. Would you recommend unscrewing the bezel and giving the bulb a little nudge?
> Wilkey



Selfishly, of course you should!  So I can benefit from your experience! I started to do it but the drag of the wire on the reflector gave me cold feet. I'm fairly sure that's why the return wire on mine and others in pics here are so tweeked up - from installation. How many tweeks will the wire take without breaking from the sharp reflector and will the wire peel off any aluminum coating?

I think the hole should have been a bit bigger. Not sure there's much light being thrown forward by the very back of the reflector.


----------



## TEEJ

The return wire location could at least be slotted out to make some more room for it.


----------



## Ginseng

Well I did it and was able to center the bulb without doing any significant damage. The base of the bulb is cemented into the ballast...I suspect this is why replacement bulbs aren't available. A bit of the cement did chip off but it didn't seem to affect anything.

Wilkey


----------



## TEEJ

I managed to shift mine over a smidge w/o it snapping off either. it might still be off a little, but its close to be centered now at least. The beam shots I posted of the throw were after I'd already done that.


----------



## BVH

Thank you guys! Maybe I'll give it a try.


----------



## chesterqw

hello guys, i have bought AW's IMR18650 and they fit nicely.

and also, does your light buzz?
mine keeps on buzzing


----------



## Ginseng

chesterqw said:


> hello guys, i have bought AW's IMR18650 and they fit nicely.
> 
> and also, does your light buzz?
> mine keeps on buzzing


That's the electronic ballast and it's normal. 

Wilkey


----------



## chesterqw

Hello Wilkey,

i see, thanks for the answer!


----------



## chesterqw

i wonder if the light will improve with a better reflector???

http://www.phoenixelectroforms.com/parabolic_standard_products.html

or a recoat of the reflector?

http://niprooptics.thomasnet-naviga...s/reflector-refurbishing/item-1004?&forward=1


----------



## Doberman

Hi nitekayak,thanks for showing the consuptions.This just inspired me to meter the current consumption of my scorpion. It takes 3.16 A (SENYBOR 2800 PCB (5,6A limit)) after stabilizing.I metered at the two ends of the microswitch. Where did you take the points to meter, because you have a much lower consumption with your light.Could this also mean that my scorpion has a much higher beam output or does this indicate a defect ballast ?Your thoughts appreciated RegardsAndy


nitekayak said:


> I finally received a set of 18650 AW3100s. My light works fine with these cells! With the JetBeam 2300mAH cells it would just flicker then cut out altogether. Using the JetBeams, I was almost instantaneously tripping the PCB in one of the four cells. The battery would recover if power was immediately removed. If I left the light on for 2-3 seconds, the PCB would latch and the battery would indicate 0 Volts until it was placed onto the charger. This was definitely not a malfunction and part of the cell’s design intent, as it would occur in any one of the 8 cells, as I discovered by rotating the mix. After installing the AW3100s, I measured the current on first strike and found it would peak my Fluke 87 at > 10 Amps. Both 1 msec and 100 msec recording intervals yielded the same result. Once the inrush current would drop off, I was reading ~4.4 Amps at 14.2V (~61 Watts input). As Patriot stated, it appears different manufacturers are using PCBs with varying thresholds. I found a specification sheet for a 3.7V Lion Battery Protection Circuit.This shows one manufacturer’s design thresholds and monitoring parameters. I could not find which particular cell size this PCB was designed for:Over-charge protection voltage: 4.300V+/- 0.050VOver-discharge protection voltage: 2.40V +/- 0.100VOver-current protection voltage: 2.2-3.4AMaximal continuous discharging current: 2AMaximal current consumption: 10uAShort circuit protection: Automatic RecoveryProtection circuitry resistance: =< 65mOhm Anyway, I’m a happy camper now that my light turned out not to be DOA after all. I have a set of AW IMR18650s on the way, but since the higher capacity AW3100s are working out, they will be relegated to being my backup batteries. Here are some charts showing how Voltage/Amperage/Wattage vary with time during the startup/warmup phase. The Ballast Output Power assumes 90% efficiency for the electronic ballast. This seems to align with what I've read about low wattage metal halide ballasts.


----------



## mohanjude

That is a even higher reading than my 2.8amps that I meassured. Have you checked the voltage to work out power output (VxA)

If you could let us know the V then it would be helpful to see how much variation there is in the ballast.


----------



## Doberman

Nope, was just a short test.
For voltage metering i´d need to have the battery pack outside the flashlight, this would need a kind of breadboard construction. Or is there a more simple method in metering Current and voltage at one time ?
I do have 2 multimeters. 
Rgds


----------



## Patriot

chesterqw said:


> i wonder if the light will improve with a better reflector???




The reflector is pretty decent on this light already. For triple the price one might be able to purchase something that throws a tiny bit better for that given size but it probably wouldn't be an earth shattering difference.


----------



## mohanjude

Doberman said:


> Nope, was just a short test.
> For voltage metering i´d need to have the battery pack outside the flashlight, this would need a kind of breadboard construction. Or is there a more simple method in metering Current and voltage at one time ?
> I do have 2 multimeters.
> Rgds



If you have 2 Dvm then you can hook them up 1 in series (amps) at the micro switch and 1 in parallel to the positive and negative. I found it easier to take pack out and wire the pack using 'jump leads or test leads.

The other alternative is to meassure the voltage between micro switch and the battery pole closest with the severed track. You get half the pack voltage which should give you a rough idea of the whole pack if all the cells are the same age, brand and have been fully charged.


----------



## Doberman

Just metered it out :

Voltage is 7.32 Volts (<>14,64); Current dropped to 2,91 A (after loading the cells to 100%). This means 42.6 Watts consumption. 42.6*90% =38,3 Watts. So the output seems to align more to 40 than to 35w. But i still wonder, why the current lowered that way compared to the previous meterings.. 
I tried several times yesterday and it always reached more than 3A (at a cell level of approx. 85%).


----------



## mohanjude

I think there is a variation of amp draw. I tried my own ballast several times and got a variation around 10%. It looks like yours is the highest so far tested.

One of these days I will pluck up the courage to try and dismantle the bulb and meassure actual volts and amps delivered to the bulb.

Until I can confirm with Ric that replacement bulbs are available I don't want to wreck the bulb.


----------



## Doberman

[OT]

Hmmmm The FF3 initiates a "must have" in me. Seems to be the TM11 of the HID´s. Unfortunately the manufacturer does not have any info on his homepage to the FF3. Still a secret project ?
And shoudian.com may be interesting but i can´t read mandarin .. 
Any further info appreciated. 
If available i will order directly. :wave: 

Reviews welcome.
Sorry for OT

[/OT]




ma_sha1 said:


> The FF3 pictures were out for a few month now, didn't want to post here, yet another unobtainium.
> 
> Since it's been brought up. might as well...
> 
> Left. 40W FF2, this was what the magic fire templated upon, Magic fire is similar to FF2 in size.
> 
> Middle, 35W FF1, the original one that was a small custom run only, before FF turned commercial operations & produced FF2.
> FF1 still the slimest of the family, it's already incredibally small for a full power HID!
> 
> Right, the 40W FF3. Now, since many of you just got the magic fire, imagine real 40W out at almost half the size? un freakenbeliveable


----------



## TEEJ

Doberman said:


> [OT]
> 
> Hmmmm The FF3 initiates a "must have" in me. Seems to be the TM11 of the HID´s. Unfortunately the manufacturer does not have any info on his homepage to the FF3. Still a secret project ?
> 
> And shoudian.com may be interesting but i can´t read mandarin ..
> 
> Any further info appreciated.
> If available i will order directly. :wave:
> 
> Reviews welcome.
> Sorry for OT
> 
> [/OT]



I like Mandarin oranges, but they are hard to light.


----------



## BVH

Doberman said:


> Just metered it out :
> 
> Voltage is 7.32 Volts (<>14,64); Current dropped to 2,91 A (after loading the cells to 100%). This means 42.6 Watts consumption. 42.6*90% =38,3 Watts. So the output seems to align more to 40 than to 35w. But i still wonder, why the current lowered that way compared to the previous meterings..
> I tried several times yesterday and it always reached more than 3A (at a cell level of approx. 85%).



Cutting edge technology ballasts are just reaching 90% efficiency. All of the ballasts we deal with are at best, 80% and probably closer to between 75% and 80% efficient. Yours is probably closer to 34 Watts output.


----------



## MDJAK

Ginseng said:


> Well I did it and was able to center the bulb without doing any significant damage. The base of the bulb is cemented into the ballast...I suspect this is why replacement bulbs aren't available. A bit of the cement did chip off but it didn't seem to affect anything.
> 
> Wilkey



Replacement bulbs unavailable? May I ask where you come upon that info? My bulb blew after a month of ownership and I emailed Ric. He said if I'm handy with a solder gun (which I'm not but a friend is), it's easy to replace the bulb and he's going to send me one.


----------



## Ginseng

T


MDJAK said:


> Replacement bulbs unavailable? May I ask where you come upon that info? My bulb blew after a month of ownership and I emailed Ric. He said if I'm handy with a solder gun (which I'm not but a friend is), it's easy to replace the bulb and he's going to send me one.


Let me clarify. He said none available for elective purchase now. On similar point, no battery carriers for purchase at all. 
Wilkey


----------



## nitekayak

Doberman said:


> Just metered it out :
> 
> Voltage is 7.32 Volts (<>14,64); Current dropped to 2,91 A (after loading the cells to 100%). This means 42.6 Watts consumption. 42.6*90% =38,3 Watts. So the output seems to align more to 40 than to 35w. But i still wonder, why the current lowered that way compared to the previous meterings..
> I tried several times yesterday and it always reached more than 3A (at a cell level of approx. 85%).



Hi Doberman,

It does sound like you received a ballast that draws more current than what's been posted thus far (hopefully you're getting more lumens out the business end). When I hooked up my Multimeters to take Voltage and Current measurements, I used test leads with hook clips (a "J" hook) connected to the gold springs of the battery pack. My Fluke was wired in series to measure the current since it had the highest current measuring capability. My Amprobe is a little guy that has thin non-detachable leads, so I used it to measure the voltage. I kept the battery pack separated from the light and just held the leads on the ballast input to complete the circuit. My ballast efficiency number was based on several articles that I read recently. A decent technical article located here "www.ballastdesign.com/overview.shtml" generalized the efficiency of electronic (vs. magnetic) HID ballasts as follows: 
_2. Electronic_• very low efficient ( < 85% )• low efficient (85% - 90% )• high efficient( 90% - 93% )• very high efficient( > 93% )​ I just picked the "middle" of the scale because it seemed like a reasonable reference point. These ballasts may be less efficient but I wasn't willing to break the bulb's cement to attempt a reading on the output side as I feared what the outcome might be .


----------



## Tain

Doberman said:


> [OT]
> 
> Hmmmm The FF3 initiates a "must have" in me. Seems to be the TM11 of the HID´s. Unfortunately the manufacturer does not have any info on his homepage to the FF3. Still a secret project ?
> And shoudian.com may be interesting but i can´t read mandarin ..
> Any further info appreciated.
> If available i will order directly. :wave:
> 
> Reviews welcome.
> Sorry for OT
> 
> [/OT]



Here you go, photos of the FF3.
http://www.shoudian.com/thread-252927-1-1.html


----------



## Ginseng

Wow, a completely different return wire placement.

Wilkey


----------



## BVH

Ginseng said:


> Wow, a completely different return wire placement.
> 
> Wilkey



Yes! That's how many of the really BIG Boys do it. Maxabeam, my Locators, the expensive ACR marine spotlights, just mention a few.


----------



## mohanjude

Whats the advantage of having the return wire spread out like that? Does it improve the beam profile by reducing the shadow of the return wire?


----------



## BVH

My guess is that it allows for an almost zero clearance between the bulb and the rear of the reflector allowing more collection of light. Just a guess, though. I still see return wire shadows in the MB beam.


----------



## Ginseng

mohanjude said:


> Whats the advantage of having the return wire spread out like that? Does it improve the beam profile by reducing the shadow of the return wire?


The closer an obstruction is to a point source of illumination, the larger the angle of light blocked. So, moving it out like that would make the wire shadow much smaller, perhaps even imperceptible.

Wilkey


----------



## Doberman

Thanks for clarification.
Thought that 90% would be an average value. 




BVH said:


> Cutting edge technology ballasts are just reaching 90% efficiency. All of the ballasts we deal with are at best, 80% and probably closer to between 75% and 80% efficient. Yours is probably closer to 34 Watts output.


----------



## Tain

65W Magic Fire ceiling bounce lux test 

MF65W: 1880 lux
SR90: 1020 lux
55W HID: 1270 lux

http://www.shoudian.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=253887&pid=5719872


----------



## Patriot

Tain said:


> 65W Magic Fire ceiling bounce lux test
> 
> MF65W: 1880 lux
> SR90: 1020 lux
> 55W HID: 1270 lux
> 
> http://www.shoudian.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=253887&pid=5719872




If you own the 65W MF, myself and others would be very appreciative if you'd share some pictures or beamshots. Perhaps that's what the link is but it won't load on my work computer. I think the animated avatar prevents the full page from loading.


----------



## romteb

Beamshots on shoudian are very impressive, lux figures (for throw) should be very close to the SR90 but with a much bigger hotspot


----------



## Ginseng

Impressive. Did anyone catch the CCT of the bulb?

Wilkey


----------



## hahoo

Tain said:


> 65W Magic Fire ceiling bounce lux test
> 
> MF65W: 1880 lux
> SR90: 1020 lux
> 55W HID: 1270 lux
> 
> 
> http://www.shoudian.com/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=253887&pid=5719872






now thats what im talking about there.....
very impressive.....
am i reading it right at close to 200,000 lux ?


----------



## spaz815

Just got my light in the mail today. It came perfect. I'm glad I sent the 1st broken one back to get this one. For my third HID this one by far is the brightest. I just hope it holds up for a good while. I see there is a 65w version coming out. I would love to see what that looks like. I'm not sure if I would need it being this one is so bright. Does anyone know if they are going to make bulbs and ballast be able to swap for the 40w version?


----------



## Helmut.G

hahoo said:


> now thats what im talking about there.....
> very impressive.....
> am i reading it right at close to 200,000 lux ?


I think the figures quoted by Tain compare overall output, not throw.


----------



## yifu

Any word on when the 65W version would be available yet? It's not on the website. I figure 65W input should at least be 45W output or so, cheap way of getting PH45 output in a smaller size. And anyway, 200 000 lux sounds very reasonable for a 65W HID. A L35 clocks in at 225 000 lux even though it is only 35W and the reflector is only slightly larger, at 4 inches.


----------



## Tain

hahoo said:


> now thats what im talking about there.....
> very impressive.....
> am i reading it right at close to 200,000 lux ?



It's a *Ceiling Bounce Lux Test* done by *aku1979 *on shoudian.com

Tested lights SR90, 65W Magic Fire, and 55W HID







SR90





65Watt Magic Fire





55Watt HID





*photo courtesy of *aku1979 *on shoudian.com*


----------



## Fusion_m8

Thanks for the MF 65w light readings but wouldn't the 40w readings be more relevant in this thread since _this is_ a 40w thread and 99% of MF buyers own the 40w?


----------



## spaz815

What are you guys getting for run time for the Magic Fire? Also what do you feel about running unprotected battery's with this light? What do I have to look out for If I would run them?


----------



## Colonel Sanders

spaz815 said:


> What are you guys getting for run time for the Magic Fire? Also what do you feel about running unprotected battery's with this light? What do I have to look out for If I would run them?



Over an hour with Redilast 2900s. Be careful tailstanding that long though....it gets *HOT!!!* I measured 145f after 50 minutes.

Just be careful not to run the unprotected cells down too far. I would be safe and run IMR1600mah cells only about 20 minutes for example. But...why not just run good quality protected cells instead? Either way, protected or not, I would use only good quality cells. No $h1TF1RE types. JMO.


----------



## BVH

I do not know the specs on these bulbs but some have restrictions on vertical angle of operation. Angles above 45 can significantly reduce life and degrade performance. If the smaller Cathode is pointed down, the "flame" can travel back over it and wear it out much faster. Without knowing, I'd not do a lot of tailstanding.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

Thanks BVH, I didn't know that. Only did it once just for the runtime test. I'm used to hotwires and LEDs!


----------



## BVH

Again, not saying this one has limitations but it could. Maybe a question to Ric?


----------



## yifu

I emailed Ric and was told that the 65W version would come in this week! Hopefully that won't have the problems that this did?


----------



## Doberman

What makes you think, that this may take place ?
In resumee the MF ("40" watts version) to me was more than a lottery game.
The output (current consumption) varies from 29-35 watts, but never reaches the "batched" 40 Watts.
The shipping was .... (but that´s not to blame the flashlight), i have to live now with all that scratches at my flashlight. 
The cage/tube issue for the 18650s is also worth mentioning it. I killed some 18650 coats when trying to load the MF the first time.
The light outcome is OK, but it´s not a real thrower, spot+spill are for me to inconstant, the same when seeing it as flooder.

So the first reviews of the new 65 watts version must really point out a huge step forward or a cheap update kit will be available. Otherwise that was my one and only experience with the MF; i would spend my next free money for HID´s of other brands.


My 2 cents


----------



## Ginseng

Hey Doberman,
As a person who bought two of the "40W" units, I feel your pain. Here is how I see it, though. At the special, $30-off price, the MF40 itself is an excellent performance value. Issues with shipping aside, it's hard not to agree that you get a good balance of runtime, output, and handling for the dollar. 

The sharp lip on the tube that gouged battery shrink wrap absolutely is a quality issue, as is the off-centeredness of the HID capsule. But I can't really say that I expected a true, certified 40W output. Perhaps I've just become a touch cynical. And especially at this price, as long as it is producing "a whole mess of light" comparable to my modified 100W incandescent spotlight, I'd be happy. I do, however, appreciate the work of those with the skill and equipment to determine the truth. As for beam pattern, it is a messy spot with a whole bunch of spill. It's a non-textured 60mm reflector in a budget-grade HID. I'd say it's par for the course. Keeping it in perspective, this light is cheaper than some single-die LED lights that put out much less light for a lot shorter time.

I know I must sound like a CNQG MF apologist, but I don't mean to be. I just have what I consider to be reasonable expectations for something of this caliber. Now would I be so forgiving for a FF, especially if it cost upwards of $300 or more? I think not. But I do look forward to the chance to put it to the test.

As for the 65W unit...if it turns out to be 55W in reality and is not much more expensive, I think it'll find a place in my rack.

Wilkey



Doberman said:


> What makes you think, that this may take place ?
> In resumee the MF ("40" watts version) to me was more than a lottery game.
> The output (current consumption) varies from 29-35 watts, but never reaches the "batched" 40 Watts.
> The shipping was .... (but that´s not to blame the flashlight), i have to live now with all that scratches at my flashlight.
> The cage/tube issue for the 18650s is also worth mentioning it. I killed some 18650 coats when trying to load the MF the first time.
> The light outcome is OK, but it´s not a real thrower, spot+spill are for me to inconstant, the same when seeing it as flooder.
> 
> So the first reviews of the new 65 watts version must really point out a huge step forward or a cheap update kit will be available. Otherwise that was my one and only experience with the MF; i would spend my next free money for HID´s of other brands.
> 
> 
> My 2 cents


----------



## TEEJ

I think it comes down to expectations.

I think when all was said and done, the Gashfire cost me about $120+shipping, my cells did fit when I found out how to make them arrange the way they needed to, and it does put out a decent amount of light in an albeit not perfect, but useful beam.

I have the SR90, TK70 and this as backup...and for the price, I'm OK with the ROI. 

If I purchased it to represent a jewel in a shelf queen collection, well, I would not have even ordered it...and if I had, expecting a flawless and harmonious example of indestructible electronic and metal synergy - I would have been outraged and disappointed. 

I ordered it expecting it to be like a Harbor Fright tool; It would look like a real tool, it would work well enough most of the time to be useful, but it would be less durable, and less dependable - And because I try to keep an open mind, and try stuff that might fill a niche for me as an experiment from time to time. It also adds to my CCCL baseline data.


----------



## Ginseng

TEEJ said:


> I think it comes down to expectations.
> I ordered it expecting it to be like a Harbor Fright tool



So true!

Wilkey


----------



## MDJAK

Well, I reported a while back that my bulb blew on my magic fire. I emailed Ric who immediately got back to me and offered to send me a new bulb if I was handy with soldering. I'm not but a friend is.

I've yet to receive that bulb and it's been quite a few weeks. So, my Scorpion sits collecting dust. Some warranty.


----------



## Fusion_m8

Got my replacement light from Ric yesterday in 100% unmarked working condition, fantastic customer service from him sorting out my DOA light from the first shipment. 

I loaded the battery carrier with 4x Panasonic CGR18650s and lit the thing up. Not bad... not quite 40w... and not quite 35w either as my L35 hoses it for throw AND output. I'd say the output is a very steady 1500lumens OTF or thereabouts. The beam's colour temperature appears to be 4300k-4500k, but its definitely cooler than the L35 which appears to be 4000K. The MF40w is a great looking handheld light that is more for camping or bush walking, its certainly not sturdy enough to be used for extreme sports, search and rescue or combat missions, we'll leave that to the Polarions and Surefires.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

I did some lux testing and this the Magic Fire made no better than 70,000 lux at 1m (my Stanley is showing about double that). Not much of a thrower as far as HIDs are concerned. The ceiling bounce test puts it probably around 1750L best I can tell. My reflector has gotten pretty smoked up for some reason (not happy with that since it's absolutely not my fault). Perhaps this accounts for some of the poor performance?


----------



## TEEJ

Yeah, a smoked reflector will hurt performance, a LOT....as that's killing the OTF part.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

That's what I'm thinking. I am 99% sure I can tell a difference in actual use as well. Just doesn't seem like it did at first. Wonder what smoked the reflector?

Anyone else have a smoked reflector???


----------



## TEEJ

Mines fine strangely enough.



The beam is floody for an HID, but its useful in distribution. It doesn't have the ultimate throw my SR90 does for example...but it will find things at intermediate range very well.


----------



## Fusion_m8

My replacement 40w had a crystal clear lens and extra shiny reflector compared to my first DOA light. The replacement HID I got also had a small chamfered edged at the tail of the body to protect the batteries from scarring when inserted, that chamfered edged was definitely not there in my first DOA light as well. I reckon MF is making running changes according to feedback from users, to new batches as production goes along.


----------



## TEEJ

Fusion_m8 said:


> My replacement 40w had a crystal clear lens and extra shiny reflector compared to my first DOA light. The replacement HID I got also had a small chamfered edged at the tail of the body to protect the batteries from scarring when inserted, that chamfered edged was definitely not there in my first DOA light as well. I reckon MF is making running changes according to feedback from users, to new batches as production goes along.



Running changes are not as good as proactive changes, but, they are also BETTER than ignoring feedback, and, odds are the next time they make a light, they will probably remind each other of the "Gashfire Fiasco of 2012"

"D


----------



## Fusion_m8

I absolutely agree with your statement in theory, however I do not know of any real world manufacturers who can produce a perfect and umimprovable production ready prototype first time round. Not even mega budget F1 racing teams, NASA, Boeing, Airbus, Apple or Microsoft etc...can do that, not least a little known Chinese flashlight manufacturer.

It would be great if they could though.





TEEJ said:


> Running changes are not as good as proactive changes, but, they are also BETTER than ignoring feedback, and, odds are the next time they make a light, they will probably remind each other of the "Gashfire Fiasco of 2012"
> 
> "D


----------



## TEEJ

Fusion_m8 said:


> I absolutely agree with your statement in theory, however I do not know of any real world manufacturers who can produce a perfect and umimprovable production ready prototype first time round. Not even mega budget F1 racing teams, NASA, Boeing, Airbus, Apple or Microsoft etc...can do that, not least a little known Chinese flashlight manufacturer.
> 
> It would be great if they could though.



Well, sure, conceptually, but its the DEGREE or level of change we are talking about.

A lip catching on cells would be caught if one actually tried to loads cells....the moral equivalent of that Formula One racing team forgetting to see what kind of gas the engine was tuned for, etc.

They are squeezing every microsecond off a lap that they can get...not forgetting they need a 4th tire, maybe tweaking an intake runner morphology to extract a teeny improvement.

So, yes, absolutely, ALL companies make imperfect products, bar none...and its a question of degree as to HOW imperfect they are.

I consider a price point to be part of that equation...so an item can be inferior, due to compromises involved with meeting a price point....as a reasonable compromise.

IE: If things were made w/o compromise, they would be far less affordable. Look at the market share for various brands, people vote with their wallets...and even if an individual believes a Mercedes is a better car than a Hyundai, they BUY the Hyundai, because they feel that for them, its a better VALUE. IE: One might be better, but if you can't afford it, its not an option. If an alternative works "Well Enough", its on the table.



So, "value engineering" has, as a goal, the objective of finding that sweet spot...the overlap between quality and price that overlaps a demographic's needs.

This is why Harbor Fright, Blank Fire Flashlights, etc, exist...they fill a niche that has a low enough price to justify the lower quality. 

When a company then IMPROVES the quality, but keeps the price the same, its adds VALUE...which boosts sales.

If the cost of the boost is low relative to the gain in quality, it works amazingly well. If the boost is very expensive, it can lower the ROI below the sweet spot, and change the needed target demographic.

So for the Scorpion, the changes are not expensive, and the ROI is likely to therefore improve....a good thing.


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## Fusion_m8

I don't see how adding a small chamfer to the tail is a design flaw equivalent to tuning a fuel maps on an F1 engine. BTW F1, engines run on UNLEADED fuel, which is in liquid state when in hit the cyclinders, NOT GAS.

In F1, its about aerodynamics, not really engine power, thats why DRS is SUCH A BIG DEAL, rather than gaining 2-3kw of engine power through intake runner technology.

So how imperfect is the 1st gen MF compared to the 2nd gen? By adding a chamfer does not require changes in technical design & regulations do they? Its surely not as technical as upgrading a switch, or improving the LED binning, installing a more efficient driver is it? Yet almost every flashlight manufacturer does it without fear of retribution. A chamfered edge can be done by existing flashlight owners with a simple dremel. The clearer lens and extra shiny reflector could be production tolerances between different batches and/or a change in suppliers. Its the equivalent of complaining about the variances in reflector finish(some were smooth, not so shiny OP and some were coarse, extra shiny OP, do a CPF search if you haven't read about it already) in Surefire's now defunct KT4s used in their M-series lights. People pay more for a Surefire, so why don't we level the same criticism at Surefire's proactive changes? No, but we all swallow it hook, line and sinker because we all love our Surefires.

I think you've confused the demographics of Mercedes buyers and Hyundai buyers. First of all. Mercedes buyers buy a Mercedes because they can afford to and want to. Hyundai buyers buy a Hyundai because they cannot afford a Mercedes, not because its better value than a Mercedes. Hyundai drivers drive the Hyundai, but dream of a Mercedes. Mercedes drivers do not dream about driving a Hyundai. I can testify to that first hand because when I drive my Ferrari F360 Spyder, I sure as hell do not dream about driving my Toyota Hiace work van, but the reverse happens when I'm sulking in my Toyota monday to friday. Since we're on the topic, I can tell you that my Toyota has better been better designed, fit and finish over the Fezza in so many areas its not funny, it makes me wonder if the Fezza was actually finished by the 3-blind-mice.




TEEJ said:


> Well, sure, conceptually, but its the DEGREE or level of change we are talking about.
> 
> A lip catching on cells would be caught if one actually tried to loads cells....the moral equivalent of that Formula One racing team forgetting to see what kind of gas the engine was tuned for, etc.
> 
> They are squeezing every microsecond off a lap that they can get...not forgetting they need a 4th tire, maybe tweaking an intake runner morphology to extract a teeny improvement.
> 
> So, yes, absolutely, ALL companies make imperfect products, bar none...and its a question of degree as to HOW imperfect they are.
> 
> I consider a price point to be part of that equation...so an item can be inferior, due to compromises involved with meeting a price point....as a reasonable compromise.
> 
> IE: If things were made w/o compromise, they would be far less affordable. Look at the market share for various brands, people vote with their wallets...and even if an individual believes a Mercedes is a better car than a Hyundai, they BUY the Hyundai, because they feel that for them, its a better VALUE. IE: One might be better, but if you can't afford it, its not an option. If an alternative works "Well Enough", its on the table.
> 
> 
> 
> So, "value engineering" has, as a goal, the objective of finding that sweet spot...the overlap between quality and price that overlaps a demographic's needs.
> 
> This is why Harbor Fright, Blank Fire Flashlights, etc, exist...they fill a niche that has a low enough price to justify the lower quality.
> 
> When a company then IMPROVES the quality, but keeps the price the same, its adds VALUE...which boosts sales.
> 
> If the cost of the boost is low relative to the gain in quality, it works amazingly well. If the boost is very expensive, it can lower the ROI below the sweet spot, and change the needed target demographic.
> 
> So for the Scorpion, the changes are not expensive, and the ROI is likely to therefore improve....a good thing.


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## TEEJ

LOL

I think you missed my point.

What you said was what I said...you just read it as disagreeing.

The point WAS that they were different demographics, etc....and therefore different views as to what THEY valued, and THEIR compromise between price/performance.

The Hyundai IS considered a better VALUE than the Mercedes BECAUSE they can't afford the Mercedes...as buying the Mercedes would entail tremendous sacrifices to pay for if they don't have the disposable income.

IF a person values the perception of reliability in a stress/critical situation vs its total lumen out put, and that, to THEM, outweighs the high price...then, a Surefire would have more VALUE.

IF a person does NOT have or value the perception of a Surefire's reliability as worth more to THEM than the lumen out put...and sees ANOTHER brand's reliability as "Adequate or better", then a Surefire would NOT have more VALUE, to them.


For example, they see the Consumer's Report for the Hyundai, and say "It will be reliable enough for me, give the price"...and conclude that its not worth spending more money for the Surefire...to them.


One guy values the Ferrari's looks more than its reliability, another might feel another car's looks are OK, given how reliable or durable it might be off road...as that's THEIR area of concern, and what means value to THEM.

And so forth.


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## Mar

Well I have one on the way so kind of excited as I have been following this thread since pretty much since it started. Order that and a few batteries. Hope I got a good one.


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## yifu

The 65W version of the Magicfire just came out! At 25 dollars premium over the "40W" the price seems quite reasonable, even if its only 50W output. Has anyone ordered one yet?


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## BVH

Where does one find info on it?


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## mohanjude

My order has gone in with Rick. Let's see what happens now.


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## BVH

I forget who has power testing equipment? I'll look forward to some measurements and will take a back seat on this one and see what others report as far as power levels.


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## Ginseng

BVH said:


> I forget who has power testing equipment? I'll look forward to some measurements and will take a back seat on this one and see what other report as far as power levels.


Right, same here. My 40W is performing quite well and their product page isn't working right now...and I can't find their post where they talk about their new consumer site.

Wilkey


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## ma_sha1

The 65W MagicFire (even if it's 65W input power, should still be over 50W output assuming 80% efficiency)should be quite a bit brighter, although I'd imagine IMR 18650s maybe required to run it, ~$60 additional cost. There's a guy at shoudian.com named Aku had a review, here is a picture compare to lights known on CPF:

100 meter shots, Left to right: MF65W, Olight SR90($400), Olight X6 ($549). Given the power increase, I think the MF65W is a better value that MF40. But wait, there is also a MF85W in the works




.


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## TEEJ

ma_sha1 said:


> The 65W MagicFire (even if it's 65W input power, should still be over 50W output assuming 80% efficiency)should be quite a bit brighter, although I'd imagine IMR 18650s are required to run it, ~$60 additional cost. There's a guy at shoudian.com named Aku had a review, here is a picture compare to lights known on CPF:
> 
> 100 meter shots, Left to right: MF65W, Olight SR90($400), Olight X6 ($549). Given the power increase, I think the MF65W is a better value that MF40. But wait, there is also a MF85W in the works .



Ma Sha1 - You saw the MF40 when we were shooting at the quarry, do you figure the MF85 would be about the same for throw, but flood a wider area, or, throw further with roughly the same beam profile as the MF40?


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## ma_sha1

MF65 is likely using same bulb as MNF40, the throw will increase & should be proportional to power increase. 

MF85 may use bigger arc bulbs, the 75W bulbs I've seen has 5-6mm arc gaps vs 35/50w HID bulbs typical 4-5mm arc gap. bigger arc will reduce throw, so I am not sure how much throw will it gain, if any, going from 65w to 85w if the change resulted in a change of bulb size.


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## Ginseng

Well, going to 50W from 35W means dropping to around 42 minutes runtime and going up to 75W means under 30 minutes run on 3000mAh 18650s and maybe 20 minutes on IMR18650s. This is starting to move into territory where one of the benefits of HIDs is fading: great output and excellent runtime. Unless the 85W (75W actual?) is built to use 26650 size cells, I'd say it's sliding down that hill of diminishing returns.

Wilkey


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## Helmut.G

Ginseng said:


> This is starting to move into territory where one of the benefits of HIDs is fading: great output and excellent runtime.


On the other hand it is also moving into a territory output-wise that current LED technology can't even dream to reach with a near point-source single emitter.


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## Ginseng

Helmut.G said:


> On the other hand it is also moving into a territory output-wise that current LED technology can't even dream to reach with a near point-source single emitter.


Oh, for sure. As you move toward the extremes of each technology's operational envelopes, the technologies differentiate themselves most strongly. For example, "portable" triple-digit watt output HIDs/arc technology versus ultra long runtime single-digit lumen output single die LEDs. We can specify performance parameters in a myriad of ways, single source, CCT, form-factor and it is in those regions where the performance overlaps and definitions blur that the situation gets interesting.

And my statement above was really in terms of great output and excellent runtime in a reasonably carryable light.

Wilkey


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## scheven_architect

anyone knows how this light compares to a 65-85w ebay hid flashlight?


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## BLUE LED

Let's hope I get a good one. I understand there has been some revisions.


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## Mar

I also have one on the way, should be here soon. Now a question...I ordered 4 _*Ultrafire XSL 18650 2600mAh 3.7v Protection Lithium Battery*_ along with it from the same person.
Has anyone tried these and are they safe? I have been reading horror stories about Ultrafires and I am fairly new at buying batteries. Just wondering now after informing myself if these will be safe to use as I know now these were not the best choice to make.


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## TEEJ

Mar said:


> I also have one on the way, should be here soon. Now a question...I ordered 4 _*Ultrafire XSL 18650 2600mAh 3.7v Protection Lithium Battery*_ along with it from the same person.
> Has anyone tried these and are they safe? I have been reading horror stories about Ultrafires and I am fairly new at buying batteries. Just wondering now after informing myself if these will be safe to use as I know now these were not the best choice to make.



Cause-Fire anythings tend to be unreliable...and, personally, I would not use them if I could get AW, Redilast, Callies Kustoms, Eagletac, Xtar, or other proven performer that has NOT already been identified as a "cause-fire" cell.

There are some excellent cell reviews on this site. I would recommend using a cell that has been tested and found to be reliable. Much of the fires and explosions reported for LiIon cells seem to involve knock-off cells, especially when used in multi-cell lights.

The knock-offs are cheaper because the QA/QC tends to be less vigorous, as in, they may not even be new cells, they might be used cells scavenged from old laptop batteries, and/or factory seconds from another maker, etc. IE: It may even be a Panasonic cell, but its already powered a laptop, or have been rejected by Panasonic for use by them due to QA/QC issues.

If cells in a multicell light are not similar enough to each other in internal resistance and/or charge state, when they try to equalize, etc...HEAT is created. This is what can start a run away reaction. (A bad thing)

So, do you feel lucky?


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## Mar

I do have some Xtar and other Panasonic brand batteries on the way. There is so much to read on here and I've only been here for a short while so I learn the hard way sometimes.
I'll be extra careful with those xxx-fire.


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## Colonel Sanders

Colonel Sanders said:


> That's what I'm thinking. I am 99% sure I can tell a difference in actual use as well. Just doesn't seem like it did at first. Wonder what smoked the reflector?
> 
> Anyone else have a smoked reflector???



Well, last night I thought what the heck, this light is only making 60,000 [email protected] so I might as well try to clean the smoked up reflector. I wiped it down real good with a soft cloth and some Windex. It looks as good as new and didn't mar the reflector at all. I was surprised at that. Even the lens was smoked up though I hadn't noticed until I had it in my hand. 

The result is that the throw went from 60k [email protected] to 117k...an increase of 95%! I knew it would make a difference but I wasn't expecting that. So I took it outside and was reminded how this light performed when new. 

I don't know what smoked up the reflector and lens to begin with (I suspect the putty looking stuff around the bulb was curing under the heat of use) but at least now I know it's no big deal. :thumbsup:


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## yifu

That's great! Which means the 65W should do 150k lux, which is very good for a light that size. So is the lens very easy to remove? Did you have to use wrenches/tools to remove it in order to get to the reflector?


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## Colonel Sanders

Oh no, it's easy, no tools. Everything unscrews. Just be steady when you unscrew the bezel from the head as the return wire of the bulb will scrape against the reflector hole a bit. No big deal, just take it easy. Then unscrew the reflector from the bezel.


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## yifu

Colonel Sanders said:


> Oh no, it's easy, no tools. Everything unscrews. Just be steady when you unscrew the bezel from the head as the return wire of the bulb will scrape against the reflector hole a bit. No big deal, just take it easy. Then unscrew the reflector from the bezel.


Great thanks! Can't wait to get mine soon.


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## Ginseng

Colonel Sanders said:


> Well, last night I thought what the heck, this light is only making 60,000 [email protected] so I might as well try to clean the smoked up reflector. I wiped it down real good with a soft cloth and some Windex. It looks as good as new and didn't mar the reflector at all. I was surprised at that. Even the lens was smoked up though I hadn't noticed until I had it in my hand.
> 
> The result is that the throw went from 60k [email protected] to 117k...an increase of 95%! I knew it would make a difference but I wasn't expecting that. So I took it outside and was reminded how this light performed when new.
> 
> I don't know what smoked up the reflector and lens to begin with (I suspect the putty looking stuff around the bulb was curing under the heat of use) but at least now I know it's no big deal. :thumbsup:


Thank you very much for being the first to give it a try! Brave, you are. I would have been worried that the silvering could be rubbed off.

Wilkey


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## Colonel Sanders

Well, it was either that or buy a new reflector...or beg for a warrantied one. You gotta understand just how smoked this reflector was. It had made the light very obviously anemic so it wasn't much of a gamble on my part. 

I gotta give credit on the reflector quality though...many reflectors would NOT have like what I did to this one!

It will be interesting to see if it fogs again. I'm guessing not. We will see.


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## BVH

Nice job Col Sanders! You're a brave soul! Thank you!


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## Ginseng

Colonel Sanders said:


> Well, it was either that or buy a new reflector...or beg for a warrantied one. You gotta understand just how smoked this reflector was. It had made the light very obviously anemic so it wasn't much of a gamble on my part.
> 
> I gotta give credit on the reflector quality though...many reflectors would NOT have like what I did to this one!
> 
> It will be interesting to see if it fogs again. I'm guessing not. We will see.


Yeah, 
I hear that. BTW, you could take the head and reflector off and just burn in the light for an hour or so to make sure any residual volatile materials are outgassed.

Wilkey


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## Colonel Sanders

Yeah, I learned along time ago with hotwires to do that with any potted bulb to keep from smokin' the reflector. Now I know that it can apply to HIDs too. (Still very much an HID newbie!)


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## Mar

I received mine today and got it working but I am having a strange issue. It wouldn't turn on so I started to unscrew the head part and it lit up, then screw it back and it would shut down, did the same with the tail cap and it must be slightly unscrew for it to work.
Any ideas why?

What a piece of crap. First it's picky on battery sizes, then had it working by moving all the body parts, now it won't fire up and it bent one of the springs after catching on the rough sodering job on the head. Nothing but a headace this thing.

Alright it's not totally crap, I did get it to start up but what a pain it was. I ended up bending one spring out of shape on the carrier from twisting the head back and forth to get it to light up once. Then that wouldn't work anymore so tinkered somemore and finally have it working. I like the beam it throws and portability of this light, one of my more powerfuls I now own,


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## BVH

ma_sha1 said:


> The FF3 pictures were out for a few month now, didn't want to post here, yet another unobtainium.
> 
> Since it's been brought up. might as well...
> 
> Left. 40W FF2, this was what the magic fire templated upon, Magic fire is similar to FF2 in size.
> 
> Middle, 35W FF1, the original one that was a small custom run only, before FF turned commercial operations & produced FF2.
> FF1 still the slimest of the family, it's already incredibally small for a full power HID!
> 
> Right, the 40W FF3. Now, since many of you just got the magic fire, imagine real 40W out at almost half the size? un freakenbeliveable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FF3



I put some dibs in on one in a GB on another flashlight forum.


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## jayrob

I just got my 40W Scorpion and it is very nice! 

Just wondering if anybody has information on changing the bulb if ever needed??

I mean, I hope it lasts a long time, but it would be good to find out in case I ever need to...

:thanks:


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## mohanjude

You will have to unsolder the ballast wires and slip the unit out. I haven't actually tried to detach the bulb of the ballast.


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## jayrob

Edit:

I broke my bulb while centering it, but got a new one from Ric and replaced it...

All is good now. Got an extra bulb too...


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## LuxLuthor

WOW! Wilkey is here. That's way cool. :wave:


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## BVH

deleted, wrong thread


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## Ginseng

LuxLuthor said:


> WOW! Wilkey is here. That's way cool. :wave:


Hey there, sir!

Who'd a thunk it. From hot wires to LEDs to HIDs. Wonder what's next. 

Wilkey


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## BVH

What is there after Short Arcs??? How about a 60" carbon Arc???


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## Ginseng

Lasers. It's gotta be lasers. Quantum lasers that'll run on an 18650. 

Wilkey


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