# HID bulb replacement poll



## BVH (May 5, 2008)

How many of us have HAD to replace an HID bulb due to "normal wear and tear"? Experimentation, abuse and other non-normal wear and tear should not be counted as a "yes".


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## Patriot (May 5, 2008)

This should be a revealing thread! 

I'm a negative for any HID bulb replacement.


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## karlthev (May 5, 2008)

Well, I did replace a solarc in my Mac Ellie but only after I mis-used it taking off the head and reflector. Any easy replacement in this case--just had to watch so that I didn't put my gummy fingers on it before I inserted the bulb. 


Karl


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## BVH (May 5, 2008)

As I posted in another thread today, we often discuss how it is generally thought that frequently turning on HID lights for 30 seconds to 1-2 minute bursts is not good for the bulb. (Probably for the ballast as well) While it is probably true, does it really result in us having to frequently or EVER replace an HID bulb in our lights as a result of normal wear? I would guess that many members here on CPF are turned away from HIDs because of the "negative stigma" of short burst runs are bad. If, in the real use world, we never have to change bulbs due to normal wear and tear (which includes frequent on/off, short run cycles), then in reality, there is no harm in doing so and there should not be a reason to discount the purchase of an HID for general flashlight uses. If the normal life cycle of an HID bulb is 2500 hours and we only get 1250 or 1500 hours out of it because of frequent on/off cycles, are we really losing out? I would guess most of us replace our HID lights long before the bulb dies. 1250+ hours is a lot of use. I use all 3 of my N30's just like I would use a 2-D Mag. Lots of on and off, 30 second runs.


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## Patriot (May 5, 2008)

BVH said:


> If, in the real use world, we never have to change bulbs due to normal wear and tear (which includes frequent on/off, short run cycles), then in reality, there is no harm in doing so and there should not be a reason to discount the purchase of an HID for general flashlight uses.




I agree.  When the size and weight of HID lights are comperable, I think they make just as much sense as reaching to an incan, for general use, when a lot of light is needed.



I was just thinking that diffusion filters for the N30 and L35 would be nice.


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## adamlau (May 6, 2008)

Agreed on all accounts. I have not used any of my LED lights since the Mini-HID and PH50 arrived and have used incans for comparative beamshots only.


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## karlthev (May 6, 2008)

Well, its got to be rather bright about YOUR house then!!



Karl


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## RustyKnee (May 7, 2008)

nope.

My Trailtech HID bike light has hundreds of hours on it and its still fine. Hopefully my Boxer and POB will be the same.

Stu


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## darkzero (May 7, 2008)

I've had to replace HID bulbs in cars but that's after they were used for years every day at night. The cheap Asian bulbs don't last nearly as long as OEMs but even though they'll give you a few years. Extreme color shifting & flickering are the reason for replacement but they still lit up. But we're talking about flashlights here.

I'm sure HID bulbs in flashlights like the Solarc don't last nearly as long but then again I won't get used nearly as long either. Most HID spotlights have automotive based HID bulbs these days anyways.

I've had my SL Mini HID Mag for years & never had to change the Solarc bulb. I don't use it that often which is why but I doubt I'll ever have to use my spare bulb for many more years to come.

BTW: Sorry, I'm the idiot who jumped the gun & voted yes.


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## BVH (May 7, 2008)

Darkzero, no big deal on your vote. I think we're getting the idea that, at least for us here on CPF, overdriving, frequent on/off cycles and short runs on our HID bulbs doesn't seem to be causing us to replace many of them. I will continue using my HID's like LED or incandescents. I'm not going to worry about bulb and ballast life.


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## Patriot (May 7, 2008)

We're seeing some pretty amazing numbers from this pole. It really speaks well of the technology.


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## adamlau (May 9, 2008)

I mistakenly removed the potting from a Solarc lamp :mecry: ...


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## mtbkndad (May 10, 2008)

Great poll BVH :thumbsup: .
I have not replaced anything yet, but at the same time the HID's that get the most use are my N30's and original L35. The N30 cost less then numerous replacement bulbs or replacement batteries from competitors. My bigger and more expensive lights go from photo shoot to photo shoot these days and that is about it.
  

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Norm (May 10, 2008)

I voted no, I have a 24W WE Boxer.
Norm


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## carbine15 (May 10, 2008)

I've had to replace projector bulbs from normal wear and tear twice now. They use HID bulbs and are very very expensive.


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## Patriot (May 10, 2008)

carbine15 said:


> I've had to replace projector bulbs from normal wear and tear twice now. They use HID bulbs and are very very expensive.




What kind of projectors?


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## BVH (May 10, 2008)

Carbine15, can you venture a guess as to how many hours you get out of them?


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## LuxLuthor (May 10, 2008)

I have BB, MaxaBeam, Acro X990, 4 x WA 10W HID's. No failures.


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## srvctec (May 10, 2008)

Great thread BVH! I've been wondering this myself since getting my 2 POB HIDs. I've been afraid to turn them on for less than 2 or 3 minutes because of what I've read here on CPF. But then I got to thinking the exact same thing you mentioned in post #4- how much difference would it really make in a bulb that is supposed to last for as long as a HID? I think I'll start using mine like a normal flashlight and not worry about the bulb. Heck, I have a spare light for parts anyway.

BTW, neither one of mine have failed yet on the 20 minutes or so of use I have on them since I got them a few months ago.


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## BVH (May 10, 2008)

Yep, let's use the heck out of our HID's - short runs, long runs and everything in between and not worry about bulb life.


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## carbine15 (May 15, 2008)

BVH said:


> Carbine15, can you venture a guess as to how many hours you get out of them?



rated at 2000 hours, one lasted 2634, one lasted 3 minutes (went poof) and the current one has been on for 20 hours now. 

A much older projector of mine still powers up but the bulb puts out maybe 10 lumens of the 3000 advertised.


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## adamlau (May 15, 2008)

BVH said:


> Yep, let's use the heck out of our HID's...


The sad thing is that I have no use for any of my SF M6 lights and Mag hotwires anymore :mecry: ...


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## windstrings (Jun 11, 2008)

NO failures on my Barnburner... only on both of my 06 cars.. they had the D4R Phillips type and I had one go out on both rigs...... I replaced with a cheap asian and so far so good.


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## XeRay (Jun 12, 2008)

windstrings said:


> NO failures on my Barnburner... only on both of my 06 cars.. they had the D4R Phillips type and I had one go out on both rigs...... I replaced with a cheap asian and so far so good.


 
Do you drive a Japanese car? the "4" means mercury (Hg) free. Hg free ballasts run at 1/2 the output voltage (42 VAC) and double the current. The Asians do not even make this version yet, there is very little demand.


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## windstrings (Jun 13, 2008)

Ah.. I assumed it was asian since it only cost me 35.00 a piece off of ebay... sorry.


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## tvodrd (Jun 15, 2008)

I had a lamp explode in my Maxabeam. 

Larry


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## Stereodude (Jun 15, 2008)

carbine15 said:


> I've had to replace projector bulbs from normal wear and tear twice now. They use HID bulbs and are very very expensive.


I'm not trying to start a fight, but aren't projector bulbs nearly all UHP bulbs, not HID?


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## Stereodude (Jun 15, 2008)

srvctec said:


> Great thread BVH! I've been wondering this myself since getting my 2 POB HIDs. I've been afraid to turn them on for less than 2 or 3 minutes because of what I've read here on CPF. But then I got to thinking the exact same thing you mentioned in post #4- how much difference would it really make in a bulb that is supposed to last for as long as a HID? I think I'll start using mine like a normal flashlight and not worry about the bulb. Heck, I have a spare light for parts anyway.


You can get two H7 HID replacement bulbs in your choice of color temp for about $40 shipped on ebay anyhow. They even have the right plugs on the bulb and go right in, so even if you were to lose a bulb, they're pretty reasonable and easy to replace.


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## [email protected] (Jun 16, 2008)

I also voted a negative, FWIW I'm using one of those 'cheap' Bosch designed (Chinese built) ballast/burners kits :thumbsup:


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## Ra (Jun 16, 2008)

I never had any issues with HID, not even with 135watts startup on a DL-50 Fatboy.

Ofcource, with all my bulb-overdriving, I can expect some bulbs to live shorter than normal. But up till now no problems like that eigter.


All the best,

Ra.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

Well i bought a Microfire K200R from a CPF member then i had to wait 3 weeks to get the charger from microfire, and now i need a new bulb. i didnt look closely at it when i got it but now that it wouldnt turn on im wondering if it broke when i turn it on or if it was broken before. and now i have NO idea where to get a replacement............


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## Patriot (Jun 16, 2008)

climberkid said:


> Well i bought a Microfire K200R from a CPF member then i had to wait 3 weeks to get the charger from microfire, and now i need a new bulb. i didnt look closely at it when i got it but now that it wouldnt turn on im wondering if it broke when i turn it on or if it was broken before. and now i have NO idea where to get a replacement............




I'm guessing you mean K2000R? 

https://www.fenix-store.com/index.php?cPath=63_73


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

haha wow. kinda tired....no excuse. thanks, i swear i looked on there a hundred times....thanks!


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## Patriot (Jun 16, 2008)

climberkid said:


> haha wow. kinda tired....no excuse. thanks, i swear i looked on there a hundred times....thanks!




Understandable since the page is laid out rather poorly. Pictures would be nice there too.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

yeah. im almost positive it is bad. let me see if i can take a pic and show it to make sure.

Edit: Pictures
it appears that filament is supposed to go all the way across the gap, but idk


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2008)

Climber, there is no filament in HID bulbs. The gap you see is where the spark/arc jumps across and excites the gases in the bulb.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

then do you see anything wrong? i cant figure out what isnt working...


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## Lips (Jun 16, 2008)

.

Microfire bulbs *NOTORIOUS* for exploding. Poor manufacture specific to Microfire... Only bulb I've had go bad. I imagine in most cases the ballast will fail before bulb do to ON-OFF...













.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

if that wire doesnt go all the way across then i dont see anything else wrong.....


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2008)

Little hard to tell from the pic. Is there metal all the way from the bottom electrode down into the base as far as you can see? Same for the upper electrode - metal all the way up and into the return wire?

Did you try a new bulb in what ever it is that this bulb came out of and if so, did it work? Do you know the ballast is good?


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

yeah the metal goes to the top and up and around and the bottom one goes all the way down. it came out of my Microfire K2000R and i dont have a new bulb, so im trying to find out if thats what i need


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## Patriot (Jun 16, 2008)

What's the faint white line going around the circumference of the bulb, right where the center of the arc would be? It looks like a hairline fracture to me in which case the gases have probably escaped.

You might as well order a bulb. It's not like you have a lot of choices. I guess that's the price we pay for owning chinese HID lights. When they go bad, it's often every owner for himself.


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## Lips (Jun 16, 2008)

.



Battery on that model would fail allot also, even if the bulb was fine... :thinking:


.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

its some sort of film. as far as i could tell it doesnt have a crack. but i guess ordering a lamp is the only option, youre right


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2008)

If the gas escaped, you should still be able to see a faint arc between the electrodes when you turn it on if bulb continuity is good.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

no arc...


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2008)

Could be the battery, switch or ballast. Battery is an easy check. Not sure bout the switch?


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2008)

Check Battery contacts too. Don't remember where the switch is on a MF. Tailcap? If so, pretty easy to use an ohm/continuity meter to check its operation. On the tube is probably not so easy.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

what can i do to check the battery besides continuity? that worked. i fried my DMM trying to read the DC current. somehow i got 400 something VDC.... i have no idea. i wasnt able to check the other battery i have but it was still doing the same thing as the other one.


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

there will be a brief delay while i make my way over to the devil i call a flashaholic friend who introduced me to CPF...:laughing::nana:


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm at a disadvantage because I seen only one Microfire and I don't remember too much about it. If you saw 400 Volts DC, your ballast is probably functioning and so probably are your batteries. Leaves the bulb and switch.


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2008)

As you've seen, HID's require very high Voltage to strike. Some in the tens of thousands of Volts. I'm assuming you got that 400+ Voltage reading at the center pin contact where the bulbs lands? If you did, chances are everything is working and the bulb is your culprit. However, I don't know the striking Voltage of the MF so I can't be sure. Be careful when probing around with your DMM.


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## vee73 (Jun 16, 2008)

Hi, My first Warrior K2000R::duh2:
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/06/17/8143010478539955601orig.jpg
Bulb blow up immediately.
Lamp works only a few second.:mecry:
Of course they send Me a new light, very fast.:kiss:


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

yeah the only problem is that its not new....


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

is it supposed to buzz like that though...


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## climberkid (Jun 16, 2008)

let it sit for a minute, will update, just turned on

Edit: just looks like i was too impatient.....i love myself


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## Patriot (Jun 17, 2008)

ya mean it just suddenly started working......? :thinking:


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## climberkid (Jun 17, 2008)

yeah, and now that i left my buddies house, it stopped again. i dont get it...


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## Lips (Jun 17, 2008)

climberkid said:


> yeah, and now that i left my buddies house, it stopped again. i dont get it...




Most likely a defective battery as mine did that. It would strike sometimes and sometimes it wouldn't...


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## climberkid (Jun 17, 2008)

i DMMed both batteries i have and they appear to be working properly. id prefer it was a bulb rather than a battery...


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## Patriot (Jun 17, 2008)

climberkid said:


> i DMMed both batteries i have and they appear to be working properly. id prefer it was a bulb rather than a battery...



Maybe the battery is only being goofy while under load. Since the bulb worked once I'm starting to think that the battery is the first place to start. Sounds like Lips is thinking the same thing.


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## climberkid (Jun 17, 2008)

and if i just let it sit on for a few minutes it turns on again. man oh man. what else can i do to check the batt?


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## Patriot (Sep 20, 2008)

Bump to give people who may not have seen this a chance to register their vote. 

:wave:


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## Hallmcc (Sep 22, 2008)

I started to vote no and then corrected myself.

In 2000 I bought a Welch Allen 10watt HID, In June of 2008 I noticed it was not putting out the light I expected. I figured I had been corrupted by the quad Q5, and the Salvo 21W output. I matched it up with a friends and there was considerable output differences.

At first, I thought it was the battery, changed that. There was no change in output or color.

Next I suspected the ballast was going bad, changed that. There was no change in color or output.

Replaced the bulb and there was a large increase in output. The old one still lights, it is more of an orange color than the blueish white I was used to.

Gas Leakage? :thinking: I have no idea, guesses? at any rate, I figured 8 years, once a month for up to two hours of continuous use at a time was a pretty good return. I have no idea what the actual total hours of burn time is nor how many strikes the bulb has endured. I would bet at minimum it has seen 300 strikes and well over 190 hours of run time.

I considered it worn from normal service.


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## strideredc (Oct 8, 2008)

climberkid said:


> and if i just let it sit on for a few minutes it turns on again. man oh man. what else can i do to check the batt?


 
Sorry to run off track but microfire HID’s IMHO are very very unreliable. I have had two out of three with intermittent problems. My advice is get rid of it and get a mac built mag hid. Works 100% and a million times better quality than the microfires…

This is all in my opinion and I am not trying to upset anyone…


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## Patriot (Oct 8, 2008)

strideredc said:


> Sorry to run off track but microfire HID’s IMHO are very very unreliable. I have had two out of three with intermittent problems. My advice is get rid of it and get a mac built mag hid. Works 100% and a million times better quality than the microfires…
> 
> This is all in my opinion and I am not trying to upset anyone…





I think some are disinterested in the Mac because of limited output, but there are other great 24W-30W options out there like the AE light & N30. My little K3500R seems to be hanging in there so far. I've been running it for 45+ minutes, 4 days week while walking. I figure that if I take care of it, hopefully I won't have to replace anything other than the battery some day.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Nov 26, 2008)

I chose "No" quite a while ago, but I recently had to replace a bulb in a POB HID.


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## petrev (Nov 27, 2008)

POB bulb problem for me too - Supposedly New POB but bulb was black and wouldn't strike - Replaced with a 4300ºK and all well.

Just a guess but could have been someone repeatedly turning it on and off without cycling properly !

Is this a Yes or a No ? ? ?

Cheers
Pete


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## Patriot (Nov 28, 2008)

petrev said:


> POB bulb problem for me too - Supposedly New POB but bulb was black and wouldn't strike - Replaced with a 4300ºK and all well.
> 
> Just a guess but could have been someone repeatedly turning it on and off without cycling properly !
> 
> ...





I'd have to go with a yes in this case.


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## eodusa (Dec 15, 2008)

More importantly, when needed to be replaced how easy is it?
Which models need return to manufacturer?
Which models will have spares readily available?

I hate to be on a hunting trip and the bulb blows on me...of course I have LED backups, but ...it still sucks..


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## Patriot (Dec 15, 2008)

eodusa said:


> More importantly, when needed to be replaced how easy is it?
> Which models need return to manufacturer?
> Which models will have spares readily available?
> 
> I hate to be on a hunting trip and the bulb blows on me...of course I have LED backups, but ...it still sucks..





Probably less sucky than going on a hunting trip without tp and I don't imagine that you forget to take extra when it comes to that...:laughing:

HID replacement bulbs aren't usually found at truck stops and gas stations so in the rare occasion that you should need a replacement it's best to order one ahead of time and keep in your electronics kit while up hunting. It takes up less space that a set of D batteries.

The bulb is easy to replace on the POB and most of the other automotive bulb based spotlights. Models which need to be returned to the manufacturer for bulb replacement are the exception and not the rule. Most of the lights discussed at CPF are user replaceable.


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## Marko (Jan 4, 2009)

Is it possible to check out HID bulb visually if it is still ok?

My N30 won't start anymore, and bulb looks like this:
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7025/n30h3oj1.jpg

Is it possible that one of the electrodes (the left one at the picture) is too short, and the gap between two electrodes is too wide to strike it on? Or is this just the way chinese HID bulbs are built?


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## D-Dog (Jan 16, 2009)

Marko said:


> Is it possible to check out HID bulb visually if it is still ok?
> 
> My N30 won't start anymore, and bulb looks like this:
> http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7025/n30h3oj1.jpg
> ...



Yes, the arc gap could be too large, however, this would only occur from hours upon hours of use or a defect in manufacturing. Because I presume you don't have a few hundred hours of use on the light, I'm guessing it was a factory defect. When the light was working, did the light flicker at all, as that is one of the telltale signs the arc is unstable.


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## windstrings (Jan 16, 2009)

HIDs are supposed to have 10 times the life expectancy of Halogens.
However, I've often seen that not to be the case.

The high price of HIDs were initially because of the extravagant claims of long life and the extreme lumens per watts generated.

But even on nice cars, I've seen failures.
Toyota is discontinuing their selection of HID options on their new 2010 prius due to the high expense of cost for maintenance compared to Halogen and or superbright LED.

A handheld spotlight rarely gets real use that adds up the hours enough to risk normal bulb failure for many years.
My first hunch is you just got a bad bulb or was not aware of the characteristics of HID bulb and its vulnerabilities.

Its common knowledge its not exactly healthy to turn off an HID bulb and immediately turn it back on. Although most HID's now have ballst that will allow a restrike, its still very hard on the bulb.

Once the material is excited with the super high voltage and it come to a plasma state, the voltage drops drastically just to maintain the plasma state.
If one turns off the light and immediately turns it back on, the bulb is still extremely hot and it gets hit with another high voltage blast adding to the already extremely hot environment inside the bulb.

If you have been doing this on a regular basis... I would say.. just buy another bulb and avoid restrikes unless its honestly necessary in order to avoid losing longevity of the bulb.

The filament in that bulb looks like it was scorched pretty bad... either by too much heat or being exposed to too high of a voltage, or being defective.

However if you don't do that on a regular basis, I would assume you have another problem.
Bulbs are much cheaper than another ballast.... I would err to replacing the bulb and pay attention to how you use it and see if it happens again... if so, I would then blame the ballast.


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## Marko (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I have now tried with two different (new) bulbs, and the lamp still won't start up. Since I have followed this 5/5 minutes rule (5 minutes min burn time, 5 minutes until turn it back on), and since I've got good amps from two different batteries (tested with another load) - it just have to be the ballast. Oh and yes, I have checked that power switch works ok.  

Unfortanately the ballast of N30 is sealed with some kind of epoxy, so there is no way to fix it wit DIY way. And seems like there is no spare ballasts available (checked @ batteryjunction), so the only way to fix the lamp is to send it back to States. And this is the problem: since I live overseas, sending the lamp back is not very reasonable, cause I have to pay shipping for both ways - and international shipping is not inexpensive. Don't get me wrong, bjunction has been very helpfull, I'm not criticising them, but this is just the way when You order something from another side of the world: it just sucks if You get any problem with the product.


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