# Air compressors



## 65535

A while back I posted about air compressors. Found out belt driven oil bath compressors where the bees knees in reciprocating compressors. I ended up with a Craftsman as a gift for my 19th birthday. 

That was a month ago, the motor is a bit crooked so the tech guy came out and banged on the motor mount no luck so he ordered a new one. (Thank god, I didn't want a pounded on motor.) The pounded motor works for now until the new one shows up. Hopefully the new one will be straight and run smoother.

Anyways I love adding stuff on and tinkering so here's a few things I did.

Replaced the drain valve with a ball valve on a 4" nipple and an elbow.
Replaced the quick connect outlet with a 3/8" ball valve an a universal coupler.
Replaced the stock air filter/silencer with a larger one.

If you want to quiet your compressor down slap a bigger air filter on it. It's surprising what it will do. Mine didn't need to be quieter but I wanted it to be anyways.

You're probably thinking, well jeeze you have high flow 3/8" fittings and ball valve on 1/4" feed and 1/4" termination on the end of the line, that's ridiculous overkill.

It is, but it's cheaper to get the universal couplers over good quick connects. It also lowers resistance for running air tools in the future. Less restrictive quick connects the better.


*EDIT:* The hose and blow gun arrived, and I made a rack at my cousins house out of steel. Still waiting on the motor and belt.

Anyways here's the eye candy (or not).

Entire unit.






Showing the back.





Closer to the filter.





New vs. Old.





Same.





Regulator ball valve and universal coupler.





Mated couplers.





Why I chose the couplers in the first place.





Ends for the 100' hose I have coming.





100' Hose and home made steel hose rack.





You can also see my Guardair quiet blow gun.





Different angle again.


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## precisionworks

While you're at it, you might want to consider adding an air-to-air intercooler, which dramatically lowers the temp of the air entering the tank. The cooler the air entering the tank, the more moisture condenses inside the tank, instead of going downstream to air tools or paint guns. Easy to make with a couple of compression fittings & a coil (or partial coil) of copper tubing.

More expensive compressors, like the two stage IR or Quincy, come with these. It's amazing how well this works.


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## wquiles

I currently have a rather "small" 20 Gallon, 5HP, oil-free compressor, and would like to get something like a 40-60 gallon unit, but I would like to know what to buy and not to buy, and why. Is a twin piston better/quieter than a single piston unit?

I also read that adding an automatic drain valve is a good idea - something like this one (although this one if probably too cheap)::
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46960

Besides totally enclosing the compressor on some sound-proof housing (which I have seen done by others), what are the other ways to make compressors quieter? Did the larger filter/muffler does much? 

Any/all help appreciated


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## 65535

wquiles said:


> I currently have a rather "small" 20 Gallon, 5HP, oil-free compressor, and would like to get something like a 40-60 gallon unit, but I would like to know what to buy and not to buy, and why. Is a twin piston better/quieter than a single piston unit?
> 
> *The number of pistons isn't inherently different in performance. Generally speaking single pistons go from about 0-5CFM @ 90 psi.
> 
> Then from there you get 2-4 piston units.
> 
> If you mean 2 stage vs. single stage compressor it depends. Generally with a 2 stage you will never have an issue with low pressure drop out when running tools. As long as you get a unit that recycles above 90 psi you should be fine. I like higher pressure units just because they pack that extra buffer before cycling and before you lose power at the tool.
> 
> My unit runs 150 psi max and cycles on at 120psi.*
> 
> I also read that adding an automatic drain valve is a good idea - something like this one (although this one if probably too cheap)::
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46960
> 
> *You don't need an automatic valve if you are good about draining the unit yourself. They are great if you keep your compressor in the boonies and don't want to go or can't get to it to drain. No matter what a ball valve is the best drain aside from automatics.*
> 
> Besides totally enclosing the compressor on some sound-proof housing (which I have seen done by others), what are the other ways to make compressors quieter? Did the larger filter/muffler does much?
> 
> Make sure you get a low RPM pump. around 700-1000 is considered low RPM. 1740 rpm motors are much quieter, but generally more expensive, not as common and draw a few more amps than a high speed motor.
> 
> The larger silencer does do well to reduce noise. You get noise from a few places.
> 
> *The motor so slower is quieter.
> The compressor pump itself again slower is quieter.
> The air intake, unless you go with a high end pressure lubricated ($5k+ at 5HP) the valve action and stroke is loud. A larger silencer will soak that up.
> The exhaust into the tank, some sound goes in there and emits out the tank wall, not much you can do about that other than wrapping your air receiver in foam.*
> 
> Any/all help appreciated



I would personally recommend a Quincy QT compressor (IIRC) with a 5HP 230V motor. 

If there is a better compressor out there, I don't want to know about it.


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## darkzero

Nice compressor!

I've got a Craftsman (stamped DeVilbiss) 20 gallon 5HP oil type compressor too. I bought it when I used to work in automotive for cheap off a buddy. I love it & it has served me well for many years. Runs my IR2131 (strongest 3/4" impact at the time) quite well even when removing stuborn axle nuts. I wish the tank was bigger for times using air sanders & cutoff wheels but I don't work on cars anymore so I can live with it.

Not sure about the latest compressors but when I got mine I noticed oil free compressors are crazy noisy compared to oil type. I've got a 1 gallon oil free pancake style compressor from HF & I hate the thing cause it's so loud! I live in a quite neighborhood & not once have my neighbors complained about compressor noise (the Craftsman) even when using it late at night & my neighbors can be complainers! If I were to buy again I would choose an oil type again. They last longer too if well maintained. Not "maintenance free" like oil free but how lazy can you be, it's just an oil change. 

Most of my buddies run their compressor on the side or backyard & run a hardline into the garage. Probably the best thing you can do to cut down on noise in the garage! If I had a stand up shop style compressor & the room I would do the same! 

I used to have that same auto drain kit from HF too. I forgot if it worked well or not cause I returned it since I didn't have room to fit it on my tank. It's bulky! I'm running an Amflo water seperator between the hose & regulator & it works quite well when the compressor is in constant use. I highly recommend a water seperator (not the small inline one) if you run the compressor for long periods of time.

Those larger air filter silencers actually do work quite well!


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## 65535

Barry, it's funny you mention the after cooler, I love it maybe convert a small AC heat exchanger into an after cooler, but my issue with the copper loop exchanger is that I burned myself on the aluminum pipe today when wiping the unit down after doing some leak checking. I just don't need a big foot diameter look of copper burning hot.

You wouldn't happen to know what kind of pressure a heater core is rated to do you?


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## darkzero

65535 said:


> Barry, it's funny you mention the after cooler, I love it maybe convert a small AC heat exchanger into an after cooler, but my issue with the copper loop exchanger is that I burned myself on the aluminum pipe today when wiping the unit down after doing some leak checking. I just don't need a big foot diameter look of copper burning hot.
> 
> You wouldn't happen to know what kind of pressure a heater core is rated to do you?


 
Slap on a Spearco Air To Liquid intercooler! :naughty: Problem solved. :laughing:


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## KC2IXE

As for quiet compressors - the one that is over at Dad's is fairly quiet, but done on a VERY odd way

It's a BIG pump (I think from a 5 HP) running on a 1 HP motor, and driven down with pullies so it's SLOW - as in "wacka-wacka-wacka-wacka" - we adjusted the pullies so it was only trying to draw that 1 HP at full load - not much in the way of CFMs, but you can have it right next to your workbench, and not go nuts

A friend has an old "dentists" compressor for his airbrush - you can't hear it


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## 65535

KC2IXE said:


> As for quiet compressors - the one that is over at Dad's is fairly quiet, but done on a VERY odd way
> 
> It's a BIG pump (I think from a 5 HP) running on a 1 HP motor, and driven down with pullies so it's SLOW - as in "wacka-wacka-wacka-wacka" - we adjusted the pullies so it was only trying to draw that 1 HP at full load - not much in the way of CFMs, but you can have it right next to your workbench, and not go nuts
> 
> A friend has an old "dentists" compressor for his airbrush - you can't hear it




It's actaully pretty common to do that, aside from the sound factor, it will last just about forever running that slow.


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## KC2IXE

Well, that one was a used pump, and has an addition 30+ years on it since we set it up - of course, the last 2 decades, it's been run maybe 1/month for an hour or so (maybe 5 minutes of actual pump time per run)


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## wquiles

The Quincy is too rich for my budget. I was looking at the $400-600 range at the most. Something like this for example:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=55995

I am in no hurry since my 20 gal DeVilbiss is still working fine, but I definitely want to start looking for something better and larger 

Will


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## StrikerDown

I have a 30+ year old 1 HP compressor bought from Monkey Wards! It has outlasted the store! Oh and I even changed the oil in it for the first time about 2 months ago! the oil still looked good... big surprise! I built 1 car ground up and in addition I have done lots of die grinding, drilling spray painting, a little sand/bead blasting, etc. It did burn up the original motor come to think of it about 20 years ago, put in a 2 hp same RPM.

I think you will be very happy with your Craftsman when you get the one with the aligned pulleys, it looks gorgeous!


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## choffman

This may be more than you are looking for but I would recommend Eaton compressors. 

http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/504747/172983.htm

Big money, but a lifetime compressor.


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## 65535

You guys will never guess the replacement cost of a motor for that compressor. 

I have a warranty so I'm covered, but the receipt showed $430 for the motor, $212 additional for the 1-2 hour replacement labor.

If the new one isn't straight I'm drilling out the holes installing plastic bushings to reduce metal-metal contact and line er up.


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## 65535

I've heard mixed things about Eaton, they are a good compressor most pumps are made in China, but I hear the QC is done in the US during assembly and the quality is there, still made in China though.


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## StrikerDown

65535 said:


> You guys will never guess the replacement cost of a motor for that compressor.
> 
> I have a warranty so I'm covered, but the receipt showed $430 for the motor, $212 additional for the 1-2 hour replacement labor.
> 
> If the new one isn't straight I'm drilling out the holes installing plastic bushings to reduce metal-metal contact and line er up.




You probably didn't pay that much for the whole compressor did you? 

I'm glad I bought that motor 20 some years ago then! I do seem to remember that it was kinda expensive though... long before eBay!

Where did you get the Air filter?


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## 65535

Air filter was purchased through Granger, the motor is a 1.8 HP (2HP) 3450rpm capacitor start motor with weld on mount.

Compressor runs for around $400-$500 new. So I don't understand the motor cost at all.

Realistically that motor should cost $150-200 new.


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## StrikerDown

65535 said:


> Air filter was purchased through Granger, the motor is a 1.8 HP (2HP) 3450rpm capacitor start motor with weld on mount.
> 
> Compressor runs for around $400-$500 new. So I don't understand the motor cost at all.
> 
> Realistically that motor should cost $150-200 new.


 

I think that sometimes they do that as an incentive for you to want to buy an extended service contract because the repairs are so expensive!

I don't buy service contracts on hardly anything.


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## precisionworks

> what kind of pressure a heater core is rated


Around 15 psi, IIRC. 



> Quincy QT compressor (IIRC) with a 5HP 230V motor


I have one Quincy QT & a pair of Home Depot Husky models. The Quincy is ten times the compressor of the Husky. Quincy keeps a database of all units purchased through a dealer, and can track a pump from birth to death ... except they seem to never die. I had issues with head gasket failures on mine, and they sent replacement parts, well after the warranty had expired, until they fixed the problem. Awesome service. 

The IR T30 is another nice unit.



> I would recommend Eaton compressors.


+1

One of my customers had an Eaton recip, running 12 to 14 hours per day, 6 days a week. Eaton said that they would kill the pump & they did. Eaton replaced the pump under warranty. Customer finally bought the correct unit, an Eaton rotary screw.

If you want a quiet unit, look at a rotary screw. Eaton, Kaiser, IR, Quincy, et al, make smaller units. Around $5k buys a nice setup, good for a lifetime of use.


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## choffman

65535 said:


> I've heard mixed things about Eaton, they are a good compressor most pumps are made in China, but I hear the QC is done in the US during assembly and the quality is there, still made in China though.




Here is a write up from the website about being MIC.

*Product Disclosure Form
* 



 
To compare "apples to apples" on where a product is made can be very challenging. We have attached a Product Disclosure Form that you can print off and take to your air compressor providers to have them complete so you will know where the product and its components are manufactured. Just because you see the American Flag sticker on the front of the unit does not mean it was actually made in the USA. There are many factors that you need to be aware of before purchasing a unit. 1. Where the parts were manufactured, 2. Warranty, 3. What are the replacement parts going to cost for the unit you are purchasing? We have seen 5 HP compressor pumps that are over $1,000.00 for a rebuild kit. We use international compressor pumps built in one of our own factories. This is why you see "EATON" in our castings. One out of every 100 compressors is built in the USA. We strive to give Americans jobs (the majority of our piston-type unit's components are made here in the USA) but have to also keep PREMIUM quality at a reasonable price with a 5-YEAR BUMPER-TO BUMPER Warranty on all parts - NOT PRO-RATED!!! Our quality and price is the best on the market. Our goal it to beat our competition name-brand and non-name brand. Have your compressor company complete this form and if you have any questions about what they have filled out on the form, you can call me personally.
Starting October 28th, 2008, We are putting an American flag sticker on the items that are made in the USA. For example, our tanks are made in the USA, So we have placed an American Flag Sticker on the tank that states this tank is manufactured in the USA. These stickers will be placed on every item that is made in the USA. This gives the consumer a clear direction when purchasing our compressor on how much of the complete unit in made in the USA. 
I can only think of 2 companies that build compressors here in the USA.
Ultimately, we encourage our customers and potential customers to compare our product to any product in the industry. You the buyer, should know exactly what you are buying and from who you are buying it from.
[FONT=&quot]Sincere Regards,
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matt Cain[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]President/CEO[/FONT]
[/FONT]http://www.eatoncompressor.com/eatoncompressor.html

Regardless, they are good machines IMHO if you have the $$$$.


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## wquiles

Looks like the Eaton is a nice unit as well, and looks like I have to save more money to get what I would like.

I hope the original poster does not mind, but since we have several folks here with good experience on compressors, I would like to specify what I am after. To help you guys help me with recommendations, here is my main criteria (in order of importance to me):
- as quiet as possible - I do a lot of my machining at night, so I can't have a loud compressor, and I can't have it running all the time. 
- large tank: 40-60 gallons. Reason being so that it does not have to run too often.
- The most use it would actually see would be 3-4 hours daily, but most of the time it will be like 1-2 hours a day.
- belt driven, cast iron, oil-based. Never again will I get an oil-free unit!
- from everything I have read, it needs to be a LOW RPM unit, which helps to be quiet
- no hard requirement on the PSI - I run my tools at 120PSI or less
- around 7-8 SCFM @ 90-100 PSI is the most I would need
- I have a 30Amp 120V outlet and a 30Amp 220 outlet - either one is fine, although I would prefer 120V just for convenience in my garage.
- stationary or mobile/with wheels - OK either way, but of course mobile would be nice.

From what I read here, I might need to spend more money than my initial $400-600, so I just need to save more money, but still not for something like the Quincy 

I can also try looking in the local Craig's list for an used unit, but I would probably not know if something has been abused beyond repair 

Now, given these "requirements", what are the recommendations?

Will


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## 65535

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Ingersoll-Rand-SS3L3/p688.html

After my little experiment, I would recommend fitting a large air filter on it, I think plumbing in an elbow also reduces noise by giving it a chamber to muffle.


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## wquiles

65535 said:


> http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Ingersoll-Rand-SS3L3/p688.html
> 
> After my little experiment, I would recommend fitting a large air filter on it, I think plumbing in an elbow also reduces noise by giving it a chamber to muffle.


Absolutely. Whatever I end up getting, will for sure get a large air filter 

Right now I am "really" tempted in getting this one, which is just a re-badged Campbell Hausfeld compressor:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100083906

Will


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## precisionworks

> - as quiet as possible - it needs to be a LOW RPM unit ... so I just need to save more money


Sort of reminds me of the Quest for the Holy Grail, which is a 1000 lumen P7 made by Mac's Customs at a DealExtreme price 

What you describe is a $2000 unit, made by Ingersoll Rand, Quincy Compressor, Champion, Eaton, etc. Single phase, 240 volt, with either 5.0 hp or 7.5 hp, on an 80 gallon or a 120 gallon tank. Why is it impossible to build this cheaper?

Two high dollar items are the deal breaker. First is the motor. Every (as in no exception every) lower cost compressor uses a 3450 rpm motor, which is loud by itself because of the fan. The 3450 rpm motor can be started with a pressure switch, which saves the cost of a magnetic motor starter. The pump is the other problem ... to get decent cfm at low cost, the pump is short stroke, high rpm, & clatters like the hammers of Hell.

In the $1500-$2000 range, you get a 1725 rpm motor with the proper mag starter, which has the torque & hp to turn a large displacement, slow rpm pump. If you can convince your wife, mount the compressor in your bedroom or family room, as no one will notice it running 

I have three inexpensive compressors, each one is 3 hp (which the maker calls 5 hp), 60 gallon tank. For about $1000, my shop has 33 cfm and 180 gallons of air storage ... over 200 gallons if you add all the trunk line & drops. I'll add another 60 gallon tank when one comes along, and it wouldn't hurt to have another compressor. FWIW, all three will cause hearing loss, even if only one or two are running at the same time.

If you have the funds for decent machine tools, you won't like a compressor that shakes, rattles & rolls:shakehead


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## wquiles

I hear you loud and clear. Thanks for saving me from buying something I would regret the first time I would use it 

Will


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## Aircraft800

Will,

See if you can find a used speedaire air compressor. They are made by Dayton now. They are bullet proof! I should post a picture of my old bomb, it was built in 1971 (older than me) but still runs like a champ. Believe it or not, it was made by Campbell Hausfeld for Sears. Yea, Campbell Hausfeld doesn't make anything like that anymore :shakehead

EDIT:
Check out this turd, I wish it would die so I could justify getting something new, 37 years and counting!


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## choffman

Will, 

As far as spending the money goes, I suggest you push your limit a little farther out than what may feel comfortable. I was going down the same road you are on when I bought mine. I spent almost twice as much as I first intended to. I've never once said or thought, gee I wish I hadn't bought a compressor that big and I doubt you will either. A year or two from now you won't be able to feel the sting of the 1500 bucks out of the wallet but you might feel the sting when you pony up for a $350 1hp dynabrade die grinder, and it won't be able to perform the way it is designed due to a lack of CFM.

No bout-a-doubt it, once you have big air you'll start drooling over big air tools. I did anyway. 

BTW, Dynabrade is the cat's meow and they know it, $$$$$$. Switching from HF to Dynabrade is analogous to going from a micro-mill to a bridgeport. Well, maybe not quite that significant but you get the idea. 

I spent twice as much and wish I had gone X3, but X2 gets me by. I do some car painting as a hobby as well and many paint guns are serious air hogs. Sanders, grinders and nibblers are too.

The Home Depot model will get you by and you may very well get years of good reliable service from it, but you strike me as the kind of guy that is willing to spend the money when it counts. I don't think you'll be sorry if you do that with a compressor. When buying a compressor, I'd say it's exactly like buying a mill or lathe. By the biggest you can afford then spend a little more even if it hurts in the short run.

This is just my $.02 worth. I have no way to know what your needs are or your finacial situation. I knew going into it that I wanted to paint cars. I was going to go cheap and get the same size you are looking at. I spent the better part of three months reading and learning. Finally convinced to spend a grand, I bit the bullet. Thinking I would only need a paint gun and one sander, 400-500 seemed reasonable. I totally could have gotten by with a 500 unit but it would have been sold by now and a 1500-2000 dollar unit would be in the shop today. As it is, the 1000 compressor is still going strong 8 years later and when it dies an Eaton or a Quincy will replace it.

I'll bet I have 25-30 air hogging air tools in the shop now. Just one paint gun and one sander, who was I kidding? I picked up a portable off of craigslist for anything that can't be done in the shop.

Good luck, hope this helps.


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## precisionworks

Quiet ... as a whisper.

Not the biggest in the world, but certainly the oldest one I have. Pump is a two stage Quincy, first stage piston is 3.00", second stage is 1.75", with a 2.5" stroke. Motor is the original Wagner Electric, 1725 rpm, 3/4 hp, turning a 4" pulley. Pump has a 14" pulley, so the pump turns a leisurely 493 rpm. Pump currently makes about 4 cfm, which isn't going to win bragging rights, but it makes the most soothing sound you can imagine. Think Harley V twin at a very slow idle & that's about the sound. If you look closely (tucked in just behind the pulley) you'll see the air-to-air intercooler that connects the first stage to the second stage.

Quincy dates this machine to around 1939, and says it was sold to many service stations ... if you can remember those. It took four guys to lift the compressor up onto the platform, and I'd estimate the weight around 400+ pounds. The right front foot was broken off (bottom of photo, middle) and got a temporary fix. Some day it will get a proper repair.

One of the better garage sale buys, at $150


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## precisionworks

> I'll bet I have 25-30 air hogging air tools in the shop now


+1

Exair cold air gun - 15 cfm

IR Cyclone die grinder HD180- 10 cfm

Henry vertical shaft air grinder, 3 hp, 45 cfm

IR 1/2" impact, 30 cfm

CP9356 weld chipper, 15 cfm

Top Cat 56HL horizontal flap wheel grinder, 28 cfm

And it only continues to get worse 

As Tim Allen used to say "More Power". Air tools are to compressors like photo editing programs are to computer memory, you can always use more.


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## KC2IXE

I loved the compressors I used to clean 2x/day during one summer job. It was at the old Bulova watch co plant in Astoria NY.

They had TWO huge, I thing it was 50 or 75 HP compressors - SINGLE cylinder, dual stroke (aka compressed on up and down - well, as it was horizontal, left and right - not horizontal TANK - tank was elsewhere - the piston moved left and right). Looked like an old "Mill" horizontal steam engine. Everything in that plant had a spare - the 2nd compressor was started 1/week to make sure it ran, but other than that, it sat

Today, I'm sure it would be a screw compressor, but back then (it was an old plant)


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> Quiet ... as a whisper.
> 
> Not the biggest in the world, but certainly the oldest one I have. Pump is a two stage Quincy, first stage piston is 3.00", second stage is 1.75", with a 2.5" stroke. Motor is the original Wagner Electric, 1725 rpm, 3/4 hp, turning a 4" pulley. Pump has a 14" pulley, so the pump turns a leisurely 493 rpm. Pump currently makes about 4 cfm, which isn't going to win bragging rights, but it makes the most soothing sound you can imagine. Think Harley V twin at a very slow idle & that's about the sound. If you look closely (tucked in just behind the pulley) you'll see the air-to-air intercooler that connects the first stage to the second stage.
> 
> Quincy dates this machine to around 1939, and says it was sold to many service stations ... if you can remember those. It took four guys to lift the compressor up onto the platform, and I'd estimate the weight around 400+ pounds. The right front foot was broken off (bottom of photo, middle) and got a temporary fix. Some day it will get a proper repair.
> 
> One of the better garage sale buys, at $150



"That" might be just the type of compressor I really need. I looked at the size of the 60-80 gal compressors in Home Depot, and I can't find a way to fit them in my already supper cramped garage. To make things worst, I don't have any more breaker panels available, as I used the last two to create the 220V 30A service for my Lathe/Mill. I really don't want to have to re-do everything to create the necessary 220V 50A service to run the bigger compressors, so I am back to finding something physically smaller, 20-30 gallons, 4-5 CFM, but still high quality and VERY quiet. Being very quiet is still a "hard" requirement.

The look for a compressor for my particular situation continues


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## precisionworks

> the size of the 60-80 gal compressors in Home Depot, and I can't find a way to fit them in my already supper cramped garage.


Vertical tanks take up the least floor space, the same capacity horizontal takes at least twice as much. As little as they weigh, it would be easy & inexpensive to make a stand that would raise the unit up so the pump just cleared the ceiling. Two of mine would be better off if they were raised like that.


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## choffman

A little more unsolicited advice. 

The water traps should be as far away from the compressor as possible. This gives the air a chance to cool so the water drops out and most can be removed. I recommend 1" copper. I use a HF filter/regulator followed by a MotorGaurd *M-60* filter that removes particles down to .01 microns. Nice part about the MG fine filter is that if it gets saturated (only happened once to me) you can easily pull it out and just let it air dry. The fine filter may not be as necessary for you but the less water the better in my opinion. 

Here's a great piping layout:


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## choffman

I'm sure most of you already realize this but I meant to add, the reason I recommend 1" line is because going up 1/4" gives you almost double the volume of additional stored air. If I've done my math right, using trade sizes and not actual ID to calculate you get:

4.6 gallons 3/4" pipe 50' --- 8.16 gallons 1" pipe 50'

Copper because it conducts heat the best which cools the air faster allowing less expensive filters to provide you with very dry air. Again, I'm sure you guys already realize this. Just trying to be helpful.

C-


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## wquiles

I spent a lot of time over the weekend doing additional research, and well, it is done. I called Eaton this morning, told them about my application and predicament with lack of space and lack of enough power (can't power the 5HP needed for a larger unit), and they agreed that the Dental Compressor (regularly $2600, now for $799) was the best option for me. Shipped to me (including lift gate) for $150, so for under a grand I got a more powerful compressor than the one that I have now, while being MUCH quieter than the one I have now, and built to last a LONG time :twothumbs

I talked to them about using the tank on my existing 20 Gal, fake 5HP motor, noisy as "hammers from hell" compressor, and he said that the tank from that one would work perfectly for this compressor. Good thing is that I can always get/use a larger holding tank if/when I get more space available in my home shop in the future, but I will never have to worry about replacing the "quiet" compressor!

I asked him why the low price, and he said that it is because they are moving to a new facility and they rather not move the equipment if they can help it. My personal guess is that this specialty item is just too expensive and "under powered" compared to the "normal", larger compressors, and they just can't move them the way the economy is right now.

Before deciding to go for this one I also considered buying their "small" pump and getting a 2HP 1725rpm motor from Ebay and rigging my own low noise, compressor project, but in the end I decided to go for the complete product, already well engineered by Eaton. I will create a new post with pictures once it comes in.

Thanks again to Barry and everyone else that gave me good advice and suggestions 

Will


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## jayflash

Besides a "normal" newer air compressor, I've got an oldie from a WWII airplane -- a B-17 bomber if I correctly remember my dad's description. He was an airplane mechanic and had this neat, unusual, working compressor, since I can remember in the 1950's.

It's made by GE and has smallish and smaller, well finned cylinders, with a tubular aftercooler, a 10,000 rpm, four brush, AC/DC motor powered by a pair of large transformers and will output small CFMs @ 1000 psi. I think it was used to charge a tank to blow open the bomb bay doors if they jammed or the normal mechanism didn't work.

If anybody knows more info about this oldie, I'm curious to know how accurate my memory and info are.


----------



## precisionworks

Will,

Always happy to help you spend your money


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> Will,
> 
> Always happy to help you spend your money



Well, thank you Barry, but please don't help me "that" much


----------



## Anglepoise

You guys must have great wives with all this money being spent <GG>


----------



## wquiles

Anglepoise said:


> You guys must have great wives with all this money being spent <GG>



Yes sir, I am in fact a lucky guy. I got a great wife, and I love her very much. This year will be 20 years of marriage


----------



## gadget_lover

wquiles said:


> Yes sir, I am in fact a lucky guy. I got a great wife, and I love her very much. This year will be 20 years of marriage



Believe it or not... 


+1


In every respect.... but different woman.

Daniel


----------



## precisionworks

> MotorGaurd *M-60* filter that removes particles down to .01 microns. Nice part about the MG fine filter is that if it gets saturated (only happened once to me) you can easily pull it out and just let it air dry.



http://www.motorguard.com/air_2_2.html

Motor Guard cautions that the filter element needs to be pulled out of the housing at least once a week ... if you don't do that, the contaminants in the air will eat away at the powder coating inside the filter housing. At work, we pull the element at the end of each 8 hour shift & install a dry element.


----------



## choffman

precisionworks said:


> Motor Guard cautions that the filter element needs to be pulled out of the housing at least once a week ... if you don't do that, the contaminants in the air will eat away at the powder coating inside the filter housing. At work, we pull the element at the end of each 8 hour shift & install a dry element.




Good to know, I never realized/read that. I guess I've just been lucky.


----------



## VegasF6

65535 said:


> http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Ingersoll-Rand-SS3L3/p688.html
> 
> After my little experiment, I would recommend fitting a large air filter on it, I think plumbing in an elbow also reduces noise by giving it a chamber to muffle.


 

I have that unit. It is a pretty good home owner compressor. Had it for probably 7-8 years now. Reminds me it is probably time for it's first oil change . If I had it to do over again I would probably go for an 80 gallon dual stage, but I like it. Or at least step up to the SS5L5.

Biggest problem for me is there are no ports coming off the tank to route your shop air.


----------



## KC2IXE

This is that small slow compressor I was talking about - big pump, 3/4 HP motor driving it real slow


----------



## wquiles

Cool photo 


My Eaton compressor arrived in Dallas yesterday. They are expecting to make the actual delivery on Monday 

Will


----------



## KC2IXE

wquiles said:


> Cool photo
> 
> 
> My Eaton compressor arrived in Dallas yesterday. They are expecting to make the actual delivery on Monday
> 
> Will



You can see where I tested my airbrush more than once


----------



## precisionworks

> This is that small slow compressor I was talking about



That brings back memories of a compressor built by my dad. Similar pump, ancient 1 hp motor that weighed over 100#, no unloader. When the old motor died, a new motor was installed, along with a Load Genie head unloader, which allows the motor to spin up to full rpm before the pump is loaded. It probably made 3 cfm, and turned 500 rpm.

We have a Saylor-Beall VT-PL-735-80 at work. It's their 5 hp model (5 actual hp) but it turns a fast 845 rpm. They use the identical pump on their 3 hp model, but spin it only 540 rpm. It is common for a manufacturer to do this, using the same pump on two or three different hp motors, but it is a poor way to make more cfm. Noise is much higher, piston speed is much greater, piston ring & cylinder life are greatly reduced. On the plus side, it is pressure lubed & uses an automotive style oil filter, where most units this size are splash lubed.

http://www.saylor-beall.com/air_compressors/tank_mounted_vertical.php


----------



## StrikerDown

wquiles said:


> Cool photo
> 
> 
> My Eaton compressor arrived in Dallas yesterday. They are expecting to make the actual delivery on Monday
> 
> Will


 
Don't forget the pics... Like you would ever do that!

Almost as exciting as the lathe & mill, I can't wait to see it.


----------



## wquiles

StrikerDown said:


> Don't forget the pics... Like you would ever do that!
> 
> Almost as exciting as the lathe & mill, I can't wait to see it.



OK, OK, since you are twisting my arm on this, I will post a "few" pictures 

Will


----------



## wquiles

My apologies to the OP for all of the unnecessary traffic in this thread. I started my own thread on my new compressor "adventure":
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/234294

Will


----------



## 65535

My new motor came in yesterday, I slapped it on in under and hour. (That requires removal of the pump and a few other things.) The new motor is straight and runs quieter and faster without the misalignment.

Unfortunately I had to remove a rather large "Made in Mexico" sticker from the capacitor housing.

Made in the USA all too commonly means assembled with foreign components in the USA. It's better than imported 100% but I will own a US made unit one day.

Quincy most likely.


----------



## wquiles

Awesome - congrats on the new motor, and in hearing that it is working much better than the original one :twothumbs


----------



## precisionworks

> Made in the USA all too commonly means assembled with foreign components in the USA.


I replaced bearings in one of my Husky motors, and the bearing had no ABEC markings ... just CHINA in all capital letters. Marathon Motor Company, St. Louis, spec motor made just for this compressor, as cheaply as humanly possible.

My Quincy has a USA Baldor, and Baldor's sometimes have non-USA bearings (SKF, NSK, NTN, etc.) which are best quality.


----------



## LuxLuthor

While on this topic, can you guys recommend a REALLY small (really portable, easily hand carried) air compressor blower, AC powered....for the sole purpose of blowing out dust?

I only have the canned dust remover that just don't put out enough pressure to work on most things. Not even enough to spray out computer, keyboard, etc. Plus the cans start spraying the cold propellant in quick order which limits their usefulness further. I was thinking of something like this, but have no idea if it is any good, or even how it is powered.


----------



## precisionworks

> really portable, easily hand carried


At 58#, this small IR unit may or may not be too heavy:

http://www.arizonatools.com/tools/p...&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=productfeeds

http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/IS/Product.aspx-am_en-12947


----------



## LuxLuthor

precisionworks said:


> At 58#, this small IR unit may or may not be too heavy:
> 
> http://www.arizonatools.com/tools/p...&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=productfeeds
> 
> http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/IS/Product.aspx-am_en-12947



That looks nice, but I'm gonna first try this item that I found after lots of searching. Just ordered it. Thanks for your suggestion.


----------



## KC2IXE

why not a 20lb CO2 cylinder - before I could setup my compressor, I had one - they last a LONG time - but make sure you get a GOOD regulator - there is enough pressure in that tank that if you crack the valve with the regulator on, you'll tend to blow the regulator (I've blown 2)


----------



## 65535

Realistically a small 1 gallon compressor is enough for blowing out stuff I would prefer a compressor at least of my size just because prolonged use drains it down. I use mine to dry my car after washing in some areas and it uses air.

I could set you up with my 1 gallon old oilless pretty cheap if you are interested.


----------



## deidrea8

You can check out http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com/IS/Category.aspx-am_en-12769
they have a lot of different state of the art products and they have used stuff too. Its great quality. Hope it works for you.


----------



## CRCJeff

I bought the Eaton. It was the most bang for the buck and a hard to ignore 5yr bumper to bumper warranty. I didn't know compressors had bumpers

It should be here sometime next week.


----------



## wquiles

CRCJeff said:


> I bought the Eaton. It was the most bang for the buck and a hard to ignore 5yr bumper to bumper warranty. I didn't know compressors had bumpers
> 
> It should be here sometime next week.



Awesome purchase on a great brand. My first good compressor was also an Eaton - my neighbor has it now


----------



## precisionworks

Nice compressor ... any machine that comes with a NEMA215T frame motor (1.375" shaft) is a serious piece of work


----------



## unterhausen

there was a Quincy QT7xxx on Craigslist here. The guy said it was dual 10hp, but it seems that it is a dual 7.5 hp. I wasn't really sure of the benefit of having 2 compressors, I guess it's so you can have it on two circuits. I was too lazy to call Quincy, the compressor itself might be too much for me.


----------



## OCD

The compressor gods smile upon my dad. He had a small, Montgomery Ward he had gotten from his uncle's estate sale. His previous employer had an 80 gallon, 220V, single phase unit, bolted to a skid that was shipped from another plant sitting in a corner unused. He tried to buy it for several years to no avail. Finally, his plant was closing up and moving production to a plant in another state. He asked the guy in charge of shipping all the machinery out about the compressor. He said not to tell anybody and come back after work and it was his. A couple of bucks worth of gas to go home to get the trailer and haul it home. Its a hog of a compressor. 

Fast forward a couple of years, I'm using his old Monkey ward compressor and he shows me a picture on his phone of a compressor in his trailer and asks me if I want it. 60 gallon Husky. It was sitting out back of his work because it was broke. They said it wouldn't hold pressure. Aside from some dirt and a few scratches on the tank, it was in excellent condition. We stated playing with it and found that the main check valve in the tank had rusted out. A trip to Grainger for a new check valve and head gasket...$40 or so later, I got a new compressor. He said he didn't need it having the 80 gallon beast!

Now my workshop has way more compressor than necessary and the Monkey ward compressor has since been passed on to a cousin.


----------



## cmacclel

I was supposed to pick up the Harbor Freight 5hp US General today but didn't make it there. I will most likely pick one up Monday. These are supposedly made in the USA by the same company that makes some other mid range compressors like Bel-Air...ETC.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93274

20% off the store price of $799 is a good deal.


Mac


----------



## unterhausen

so how do you get the discount on the Harbor freight compressor?


----------



## cmacclel

unterhausen said:


> so how do you get the discount on the Harbor freight compressor?


 

http://www.retailmenot.com/view/harborfreight.com


----------



## Illum

thats wonderful for a 19th birthday

I was given one too on my 18th, only it was part of a jumpstarter:thinking:
One questions the confidence of his parents for his driving skillz:green:


----------



## precisionworks

*kompresory - *I volunteer to do a free evaluation ... sort of like the free advertising that you're trying out ... drop one on a container ship & send it to Illinois. Be sure to send a prepaid call tag in case I don't want to keep it


----------



## unterhausen

Harbor Freight sells just the pump end for a compressor. Wouldn't think there would be a big market for that.


----------



## cyberspyder

I run an Ingersoll-Rand unit...reliable and well-built.


----------



## StrikerDown

cmacclel said:


> I was supposed to pick up the Harbor Freight 5hp US General today but didn't make it there. I will most likely pick one up Monday. These are supposedly made in the USA by the same company that makes some other mid range compressors like Bel-Air...ETC.
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93274
> 
> 20% off the store price of $799 is a good deal.
> 
> 
> Mac



Chris,

Did you get this beast?

If so how do you like it?


----------



## cmacclel

cyberspyder said:


> I run an Ingersoll-Rand unit...reliable and well-built.


 

From what I read it al depends on what model. Some of the low end models are not very good according to the reviews I read.

Mac


----------



## cmacclel

StrikerDown said:


> Chris,
> 
> Did you get this beast?
> 
> If so how do you like it?


 

So far so good for the price. I sold my Dewalt 15 gallon for $250 after using it for 2 years and picked this one up for just over $600. Though I much would have rather purchased this one if money where no object. I actually was going to purchase it until I found the shipping costs where almost $400.

http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/504747/172993.htm


Heres the Harbor Freight (Made in US)







Almost $200 in brass and accessories 






Video

http://www.vimeo.com/11136785


----------



## cyberspyder

cmacclel said:


> From what I read it al depends on what model. Some of the low end models are not very good according to the reviews I read.
> 
> Mac



I have a GarageMate and it does very well powering the IR 2135 TiMax impact gun or a ratchet without having to constantly turn on.


----------



## CRCJeff

Late with pictures, I received it 2 weeks ago and just now got around to hooking up. I'll post my manifold build up later today. 
Going from a 30g tank and 1.6hp to this thing is culture shock. I'm not sure how I ever did without it.


----------



## wquiles

Awesome!


----------



## precisionworks

> Going from a 30g tan and 1.6hp to this thing is culture shock.


Not inexpensive, but very nice 

The mag starter is an immediate indication of a high end compressor ... lower priced units use the pressure switch to start & stop the motor. The problem with pressure switch starting is that the contacts will eventually weld shut ... motor is then on constant run, relief valve blows off, motor burns up if the shop in unattended, etc. The mag starter is the only correct way to start any motor over 2 hp.

The auto tank drain is another nice feature not seen on many units. Route the drain pipe close to the neighbor's house & see what happens :nana:

That pump has to be good for 10 scfm per cylinder ... awesome :thumbsup:


----------



## cmacclel

Jeff how quite is that Eaton?

Mac


----------



## kingofwylietx

I have a fairly plain compressor, but I am employed by an instrumentation & controls company.....so I quickly upgraded:

-Nice high-flow regulator for better operation of tools.
-changed gauges to better liquid filled American made units.
-added a shut-off valve & replaced the drain plug with a valve.

The best upgrade was definitely the air regulator. It flows MUCH better than the ones that come on these units.


----------



## tino_ale

Hi all,

I have a 2HP 50L (13 gallons), oiled, simple compressor. It provides 133l/min at 7 bar (4.7CFM at 100psi). Got it for 110 euros which isn't bad IMO.

My plan is to leave it in the underground cellar that I have under my appartment. I intend to run a hose up the stairs, with a quick connect at the end. I intend to use it for blowing air mainly so I can adjust the output to approx 3 bar and won't need to change the setting often.

So my questions :
- is 3 bar low enough to change tool using the quick connect system while 3 bar still in ?
- is it Ok to leave the compressor connected to 220V and with the pressure switch on it's "ON" position 24/24 7/7 ?
- is there any problem leaving the compressor and hose under pressure 24/24 7/7 ?

My air consumption should be quite low so I'm not worried about heat.

I'm asking these questions because the user manual mentions disconnecting from the main and switching to "OFF", and emptying whenever not in use. I wonder if these are just general advise with no real technical ground or if there is actually good reasons for them.

Thanks


----------



## TranquillityBase

tino_ale said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a 2HP 50L (13 gallons), oiled, simple compressor. It provides 133l/min at 7 bar (4.7CFM at 100psi). Got it for 110 euros which isn't bad IMO.
> 
> My plan is to leave it in the underground cellar that I have under my appartment. I intend to run a hose up the stairs, with a quick connect at the end. I intend to use it for blowing air mainly so I can adjust the output to approx 3 bar and won't need to change the setting often.
> 
> So my questions :
> - is 3 bar low enough to change tool using the quick connect system while 3 bar still in ?
> - is it Ok to leave the compressor connected to 220V and with the pressure switch on it's "ON" position 24/24 7/7 ?
> - is there any problem leaving the compressor and hose under pressure 24/24 7/7 ?
> 
> My air consumption should be quite low so I'm not worried about heat.
> 
> I'm asking these questions because the user manual mentions disconnecting from the main and switching to "OFF", and emptying whenever not in use. I wonder if these are just general advise with no real technical ground or if there is actually good reasons for them.
> 
> Thanks



Always best to* play it safe*...It's a metal vessel under high pressure.


----------



## tino_ale

So there's no way I can have readily available compressed air at all time ? 

I have a remote switch upstairs so if it is unsafe to leave it under pressure at all time, I can switch the main off when not in use but I'll have to empty 50L of compressed air everytime I am done with what I have to do... The pressure switch will remain on "ON" position though. Is that Ok ?

Basically my concern is not to have to go downstairs too often (the place is way too full of stuff and it's uneasy to "navigate" through it).


----------



## TranquillityBase

tino_ale said:


> So there's no way I can have readily available compressed air at all time ?
> 
> I have a remote switch upstairs so if it is unsafe to leave it under pressure at all time, I can switch the main off when not in use but I'll have to empty 50L of compressed air everytime I am done with what I have to do... The pressure switch will remain on "ON" position though. Is that Ok ?
> 
> Basically my concern is not to have to go downstairs too often (the place is way too full of stuff and it's uneasy to "navigate" through it).


Tino, you mentioned 'apartment'...is the cellar a common area for all the tenants of the building?


----------



## tino_ale

I have the appartement at the ground floor and the cellar under it is "mine". It is a private area and no one except me has access to it. :tinfoil:

Another option for the compressor would be outside, next to my front door there is a recessed area, sheltered from rain. But I would still be concerned about rust and all. 

An explosion of the compressor (worst scenario I guess) would probably not injure anyone because there is no-one down there, it's just storage.

On the other hand the question is more if this kind of compressor is or is not designed to be under pressure all the time. I don't want to use it beyond what it's designed for. The user manual isn't clear about that.

It basically says "when not in use, disconnect from the main, put the pressure switch to "OFF" and empty the compressor".


----------



## 65535

It's not bad practice to shut the compressor off and drain it, that being said, I leave mine on under pressure 24/7 I don't have any air leaks so the motor won't cycle on, the tank is rated for the pressure that the pump delivers and it's designed to hold that pressure and not weaken with multiple pressure cycles, so you should be fine.

But you will need to go down there to drain the tank every few uses, or best after every use once the air has cooled and all the moisture has condensed.

Since my thread got bumped I'll show you how I have my compressor setup now, since I've changed a few things.


----------



## precisionworks

> I leave mine on under pressure 24/7


+1

With three compressors, roughly 200' of pipe, countless threaded joints, etc., my system always leaks a tiny amount of air ... even though I try to stop every leak. Pressure vessels don't need to be depressurized, unless you want to do that.



> is 3 bar low enough to change tool using the quick connect system while 3 bar still in ?


No problem there. My shop system runs at 9 bar (130 psi) and every tool is easy to connect & disconnect. A dry nitrogen tank is sometimes used when more pressure is needed for an air impact wrench ... up to 14 bar (just over 200 psi) is used for really stubborn nuts, and the quick connect is a little stiff but still usable. 



> is it Ok to leave the compressor connected to 220V and with the pressure switch on it's "ON" position 24/24 7/7 ?


Yes and no. If the pressure switch welds itself ON (which is not unheard of), the compressor pump will run constantly. The safety relief valve will blow at some specified pressure, and the noise will wake the dead. The relief valve closes when the pressure drops, but opens again on overpressure. The pump will get extraordinarily hot and may seize up, which can cause the motor to burn up. _Best to unplug it when it isn't in use._


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> +1
> 
> With three compressors, roughly 200' of pipe, countless threaded joints, etc., my system always leaks a tiny amount of air ... even though I try to stop every leak. Pressure vessels don't need to be depressurized, unless you want to do that.
> 
> No problem there. My shop system runs at 9 bar (130 psi) and every tool is easy to connect & disconnect. A dry nitrogen tank is sometimes used when more pressure is needed for an air impact wrench ... up to 14 bar (just over 200 psi) is used for really stubborn nuts, and the quick connect is a little stiff but still usable.
> 
> Yes and no. If the pressure switch welds itself ON (which is not unheard of), the compressor pump will run constantly. The safety relief valve will blow at some specified pressure, and the noise will wake the dead. The relief valve closes when the pressure drops, but opens again on overpressure. The pump will get extraordinarily hot and may seize up, which can cause the motor to burn up. _Best to unplug it when it isn't in use._



That sounds reasonable and safe :wave:

I personally have the compressor running during the day (with the small leaks that I have, it only comes ON like twice a day or so), but every night and every time I leave the house, I turn OFF the shop's "master" 220V switch, which provides power to my 220 tools (lathe, mill, and of course the Quincy compressor):






Now, I do leave my tank pressurized all of the time, but turn off the valve that feeds out of the tank into the external regulator/filter, so that it does not completely drain due to the small leaks. Then, every other day or so I purge any little water that might have accumulated at the bottom of the 60 gal tank. And then every week or so, I take a look at the Motor Guard M-60 air filter, and although never wet/moist, I swap it out for another one - I just keep alternating between those two filters


----------



## tino_ale

Thanks for all the replies!

This is what I will do : leave the compressor downstair, plugged to the 220V, switch on. Whenever I don't use it, I'll cut the 220V from the switch I have upstairs to avoid any problem if the pressure switch welds itself.

I'll leave the compressor pressurized and I'll try to drain the water as often as I can.

About that : right now it has a tiny drain plug that is everything but practical! I intend to replace it by a larger ball valve.
-> can I drain the water when the tank is fully pressurized ?

The other option would be to get an auto-drain system as I understand they exist but I have no idea if it would fit under my tank (it's about 6-8 cm above the ground only) and how it works.

edit : just checked HF auto drain (BTW is it any good ?) manual and it looks like it would fit under my tank. I understand now how it works. I must add I can't believe the low prices. Here the compressor comes cheap but any kind of accessory is a rip-off


----------



## 65535

You need to drain it under some pressure, because not all the water will be flushed by gravity, BUT the water will be rusty, and can stain if you let it sit a week or longer, it comes out fast when there is air pushing it out at 100+psi so it tends to spray.

Also don't open the valve just crack it, your ears and surroundings will thank you. I use a 1/4" ball valve on mine. I'll get some pics up in a bit.


----------



## wquiles

65535 said:


> You need to drain it under some pressure, because not all the water will be flushed by gravity, BUT the water will be rusty, and can stain if you let it sit a week or longer, it comes out fast when there is air pushing it out at 100+psi so it tends to spray.
> 
> Also don't open the valve just crack it, your ears and surroundings will thank you. I use a 1/4" ball valve on mine. I'll get some pics up in a bit.



+1

I also had the 120V automatic drain on the bottom of the tank, but it was LOUD as heck, so I removed it and put a simple ball valve and a hose. Here is how it looked when new:






Here is how it looks now after several months of use:


----------



## tino_ale

Found HF auto drain on ebay, I think I might go for it. Just for the peace of mind I won't have to remember to drain the tank every now and then...


----------



## wquiles

tino_ale said:


> Found HF auto drain on ebay, I think I might go for it. Just for the peace of mind I won't have to remember to drain the tank every now and then...



Just a heads-up, but at least mine was LOUD !!!

I disconnected it after it fired once :scowl:


----------



## choffman

tino_ale said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have a 2HP 50L (13 gallons), oiled, simple compressor. It provides 133l/min at 7 bar (4.7CFM at 100psi). Got it for 110 euros which isn't bad IMO.
> 
> My plan is to leave it in the underground cellar that I have under my appartment. I intend to run a hose up the stairs, with a quick connect at the end. I intend to use it for blowing air mainly so I can adjust the output to approx 3 bar and won't need to change the setting often.
> 
> So my questions :
> - is 3 bar low enough to change tool using the quick connect system while 3 bar still in ?
> - is it Ok to leave the compressor connected to 220V and with the pressure switch on it's "ON" position 24/24 7/7 ?
> - is there any problem leaving the compressor and hose under pressure 24/24 7/7 ?
> 
> My air consumption should be quite low so I'm not worried about heat.
> 
> I'm asking these questions because the user manual mentions disconnecting from the main and switching to "OFF", and emptying whenever not in use. I wonder if these are just general advise with no real technical ground or if there is actually good reasons for them.
> 
> Thanks



If you have a regular schedule, you could always put a timer/time-clock on the circuit. Something like a 7-day "water heater" timer should easily handle the current draw. You just need to be sure that the contacts have a horse power rating. Most of the timers like this that we have in the states which can be easily obtained from the common retailers, have contacts rated for Hp. They are pretty economical (around $30US) and would probably pay for themselves over a period of time. Set the timer to turn on the compressor at the same time your coffee maker is set to and by the time you're ready to get to work you'll have air. 

The only thing you'll have to remember to do from time to time is check the clock for the proper time of day in case you've had power outage. 

That's just an economical suggestion. There are lots of other ways to accomplish the same results and "over engineer" the design for longevity. 

FWIW

Craig


----------



## TranquillityBase

tino_ale said:


> Found HF auto drain on ebay, I think I might go for it. Just for the peace of mind I won't have to remember to drain the tank every now and then...


I have one NIP, if you want it?


----------



## 65535

Well I was getting tired of my compressors cheap regulator giving poor airflow and not regulating the air pressure very well, it was commonly 10-20psi below what it should have been when I set it. 

So eBay supplies me a nice pair of CoilHose 3/8" regulators.

The only issue was the guage ports only read outlet pressure not line pressure, so I had to plumb the tank pressure guage into the pressure switch ports.

Flow is great and regulation is very precise, if anyone really needs a good regulator for their quincy or something these things are great.


----------



## jasonck08

I got given a used 2HP, 8gal sears compressor several months ago. It worked fine until just the other day it wouldn't power up anymore.
 
I couldn't find a fuse box, and the plastic that covers the motor I can't get apart because I think it may be using some funky star shaped bits to hold it together. It's also sunk in the holes 3-4" so I can't see it. But a phillips and flat head wouldn't turn it.
 
Do compressors usually have fuses? If so, would they be near the motor itself? I checked the other switch box and didn't see a fuse.


----------



## tino_ale

wquiles said:


> Just a heads-up, but at least mine was LOUD !!!


This won't be a problem where my compressor will be 



choffman said:


> If you have a regular schedule, you could always put a timer/time-clock on the circuit. Something like a 7-day "water heater" timer should easily handle the current


Not a bad idea, if switching on and off annoys me I might do that. But I don't use compressed air really often so the manual way might just do it.



TranquillityBase said:


> I have one NIP, if you want it?


If it's rated for 120 psi or more, yes sir I am interested  PM you now...


----------



## tino_ale

Hi guys,

I have a couple of compressed air questions, since I'm getting an air impact wrench :
1/ I have no filter/water trap whatsoever on my compressor outlet. Is that a major no-go or can I still use it like that with my wrench ? If I need a filter/water trap, does a cheap HF do the job ?
2/ I have no air oiler either. I read here and there that a few drops of oil in the wrench air inlet before each use is Ok. Do you confirm this or do I actually have to get an air oiler ?
3/ Is it possible/viable to increase my compressor tank size with used butane bottles ? Wouln't look so good but would be a dirty cheap way to increase my tank size...

Thanks for any input


----------



## 65535

tino_ale said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have a couple of compressed air questions, since I'm getting an air impact wrench :
> 1/ I have no filter/water trap whatsoever on my compressor outlet. Is that a major no-go or can I still use it like that with my wrench ? If I need a filter/water trap, does a cheap HF do the job ?
> 2/ I have no air oiler either. I read here and there that a few drops of oil in the wrench air inlet before each use is Ok. Do you confirm this or do I actually have to get an air oiler ?
> 3/ Is it possible/viable to increase my compressor tank size with used butane bottles ? Wouln't look so good but would be a dirty cheap way to increase my tank size...
> 
> Thanks for any input



If you use the Ipmact wrench a lot you'll want an oil/water seperator, filter, and line oiler. 

If you only use it a little you can keep it oiled before use and during storage and you'll be fine.

DO NOT use ANY non-refillable fuel bottles. They are not rated for repeated compression/decompression cycles, they flex and the metal fatigues which can cause catastrophic failure, which could end up doing property damage and hurt/kill people in the immediate area.

If you want more storage look on ebay and craigslist for an old compressor or compressor tank and just plumb it properly. 

More volume will only buy you more time before your compressor kicks in and longer for it to kick out. If you expect to use the impact wrench a lot, you'll need a properly sized compressor for it.


----------



## tino_ale

Thanks for the input. I'll stay away from dirty tank hacks (I was suspicious about that one, lol) 

About the air wrench : no I do not intend to use it massively like a they are constantly used in some shops. On the other hand I want to protect my investment since I pulled the trigger on what seem to be the king of 1/2 impact wrench : the Ingersoll Rand 2135QTiMAX 

I intend to spray some 3-in-1 oil in the wrench inlet before use. It won't hurt either right before storage.

My understanding is that a cheap oiler does the job. I might get one if I get tired of spraying 3-in-1 oil.

On the other hand could you recommend a decent water trap + filter ? I want something that will protect my investment, does the job, for the least money. Does a HF do that ? I am worried that without a water trap the wrench could rust internally

Also another question : the IR documentation states the gun has a NPTF threaded inlet. Can I safely use "normal" NPT quick coupler plugs or do I need to source a NPTF threaded plug ?

Sorry for the many questions


----------



## unterhausen

I don't recommend 3 in 1 for anything. Get some air tool oil, it's cheap

Don't worry too much about the quick coupler plugs, pipe threads are crude and it is expected that you will have to make up for their deficiencies by using teflon tape or pipe compound


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## 65535

Agreed, air tool oil is very cheap and does what it's supposed to do, I don't much care for HF stuff, I'm sure it would help. 

Your best bet is a particulate filter/water trap and a motor guard filter after that.

A few drops of air tool oil before you start and after you are done will be fine. Just note it doesn't take much, you put a ton in and it will spray everywhere out the exhaust.

Your normal fittings are fine, just make sure you are VERY careful when taping it up, if you use tape you don't want any getting in your Impact wrenches air motor.


----------



## tino_ale

Ok then, I will get an air water trap/filter.

What is the matter with 3-in-1 oil ? Ok air tool oil may be cheap but I have 3-in-1 on hands so I would prefer not to have to buy more stuff if it's not necessary...


----------



## saltytri

65535 said:


> Well I was getting tired of my compressors cheap regulator giving poor airflow and not regulating the air pressure very well, it was commonly 10-20psi below what it should have been when I set it.
> 
> So eBay supplies me a nice pair of CoilHose 3/8" regulators.
> 
> The only issue was the guage ports only read outlet pressure not line pressure, so I had to plumb the tank pressure guage into the pressure switch ports.
> 
> Flow is great and regulation is very precise, if anyone really needs a good regulator for their quincy or something these things are great.



I have the same compressor and the same problem. Could you be a little more specific about your mod? Like, what goes where and why. Thanks!!


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## 65535

All I did was remove the old regulator and pipe nipple, then add a new piece of 1/4"x4" brass pip and a new regulator, then added the gauges.

On the regulator I purchased I had to put a gauge on the pressure switch port because the regulator only has outlet pressure ports on it. The picture show it pretty clearly.


----------



## saltytri

65535 said:


> All I did was remove the old regulator and pipe nipple, then add a new piece of 1/4"x4" brass pip and a new regulator, then added the gauges.
> 
> On the regulator I purchased I had to put a gauge on the pressure switch port because the regulator only has outlet pressure ports on it. The picture show it pretty clearly.



Good deal. It sounded like it might be more complicated than that. I'll get the same regulator and, while I'm at it, add a ball valve to the drain like Will's. Thanks!


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## 65535

Yeah I added a ball valve drain to mine, much better.

Also you can use any size regulator if you get the proper fittings to adapt. Mine is 3/8" so I need 1/4" x 3/8" NPT bushings.


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## tino_ale

Isn't THIS really cheap ???
Sorry no, it seems not


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## Wattnot

Wow. I never knew air compressors had such a following!

Maybe you guys can help me out. I just put this one up for sale. Am I asking the right price? The guy I bought it from years ago said Sanborns are great. However, I have a very large yard and lots of zones and it takes me forever to blow out my sprinklers so I took a friends 6hp Craftsaman no oil 33 gallon unit (great deal) and put mine up for sale. 

I don't paint or run pneumatic tools . . . all I do is fill tires and blow out my sprinklers.


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## 65535

Wattnot said:


> Wow. I never knew air compressors had such a following!
> 
> Maybe you guys can help me out. I just put this one up for sale. Am I asking the right price? The guy I bought it from years ago said Sanborns are great. However, I have a very large yard and lots of zones and it takes me forever to blow out my sprinklers so I took a friends 6hp Craftsaman no oil 33 gallon unit (great deal) and put mine up for sale.
> 
> I don't paint or run pneumatic tools . . . all I do is fill tires and blow out my sprinklers.



Honestly, I would put the Craftsman no oil up for sale and keep the Sanborn.

You're right that thing will run forever and a half, the oil free is NOT 6HP and will not last too long imo.

But that's just my opinion, it should move at that price.


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## precisionworks

> 6hp Craftsaman no oil 33 gallon


The Craftsman makes 6.4 scfm at 80 psi, meaning that the motor is producing 2 hp. The Sanborn is also a 2 hp unit (well fed North American horses, not Shetland ponies). Since both are equal hp & equal scfm, the oil lubed Sanborn is the one to keep. Much more quiet, many times longer lasting. 



> I would put the Craftsman no oil up for sale and keep the Sanborn.


+1


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## Wattnot

I don't find my Sanborn quiet at all. In fact, I believe the Sears is a tad quieter. The oil makes a mess and blowing out the sprinkers takes me about 3 hours with all of the pausing for recharge. Each zone has several hundred feet of line so I need a sustained 40 pounds to make anything happen. I know the Sears won't give me that either but I was hoping the larger tank and faster charge time would help. When the pressure gets too low I believe the air is just passing over the water and not pushing it out. The model number of the Sears is 919.167340.


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## 65535

Have you heard the oil less run?

Very few oil-less are quieter, the only notable exceptions are Thomas and Gast compressor, both of which will cost over $2k for a new 2HP unit, and around $3k for a tank and pressure switch.

Thomas has a contractor type compressor which is a 2HP unit small size, and good recharge time. It'll run you around $650.

Otherwise avoid them like the plague.

If your Sanborn is really louder than the oil-less Craftsman then something is amiss with your Sanborn, and some quick work should get it shut up nicely. A good start is a larger inlet filter, flows more air and quiets the unit down.


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## precisionworks

> A good start is a larger inlet filter


+1

Quite a few intake filter silencers are available for $25-$50: http://www.drillspot.com/products/40166/Solberg_FS-19P-150_Intake_Filter_Silencer?s=1



> The oil makes a mess


The oil in the compressor pump should make no more mess than the oil in your car's motor. If the pump has been overfilled it may run out when the unit is moved, but otherwise the oil should not cause a problem.



> blowing out the sprinkers takes me about 3 hours with all of the pausing for recharge.


You have the classic Catch 22 ... trying to make a small (120 volt) compressor do a job that requires a large (240 volt) unit. You may want to consider these other options:

Use a CO2 tank, available at welding supply stores. Or use a dry Nitrogen tank, available from the same sources. You'll have any pressure you want & will not have to wait to use it. 

Run a compressor using your cars engine for power. Lots of online articles on how to do this: http://coloradok5.com/york.shtml


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## Wattnot

Well you guys were right. I pulled the ad (the link above is now dead) and I'm selling the Sears oil free instead. 

I double checked and the new one is a little louder. It's a different kind of sound but the Sears is overall louder than the Sanborn. 

I ordered new filters so we'll see if that helps anything but it took only 2.5 minutes for mine to reach about 105 pounds and shut off. I stopped the Sears after 8 minutes but to be fair it was at around 145 pounds. I wasn't watching the meter to see how long it took to reach 105.

The oil mess from mine comes from the drain plug (I think). Is that bad?

Thanks guys!


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## 65535

If it's leaking oil you'll need to pull the plug, drain the compressors then inspect the seal. May need to chase the threads or just add oil resistant thread sealant to the plug when you install it.

Then top off with good oil.


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## Wattnot

Need you guys again . . . 

I emailed Eric at Master Tool Repair and about the oil getting in the tank he said this: 

The reason you get oil in the tank is probably because one or more of the valves in the pump are sticking, allowing air to be pulled up into the head and into your supply line and tank. 
This would require valve replacement, but the valves for this pump are unfortunately not available any longer; this being the case I would let it be for now, and if it gets worse you may want to install a new pump on the tank.

So I'm wondering if I should sell it now while it's still in decent shape (it's not a lot of oil, just a few drops come out when you're draining it and it's probably mixed with condensation anyway). 

So for my home, non-pro uses, what would be a good compressor for under $500 new? Here is one I found on the Home Depot site:



HTML:


Husky 2.0 Running HP 30 Gallon Vertical Compressor 
Model # VT6315 Internet # 100063473 
Store SKU # 723883 
$416.00/EA-Each

 
Here is a direct link to it. Any other suggestions are welcomed.


----------



## precisionworks

> what would be a good compressor for under $500 new


You don't get much for that money ... the unit you referenced is a 1.5 hp "spec built" model, meaning that Home Depot said _Build us something that we can sell for $416, and use the lowest quality parts available that will get the unit through the warranty period._ _Don't worry about durability or service after the sale, just make something to sell for that price.

_It's an interesting concept, and lots of buyers place more importance on price than on performance or cost (which is total dollars spent over the lifetime of the product).

The Eaton units get good reviews & will be making air long after the Home Depot compressor is part of the landfill, but is well over $500:

http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/733537/344943.htm

It does make 3X the cfm of the Big Box unit, so you won't have to wait nearly as long for the tank to recharge. And the warranty is 5 years, versus 2 years.


----------



## tino_ale

About air plumbing : I JUST discovered that water plumbing are fully compatable with air plumbing 

The reason why I didn't know that is because where I live sizes are not displayed in fractionnal inches. I just found out there are actually equivalence :

26 x 34 = 1"
20 x 27 = 3/4"
15 x 21 = 1/2"
12 x 17 = 3/8"

I haven't found 1/4" equivalence ?

BTW I don't know what the "metric" numbers mean ? 
1" is 25,4mm wich is neither 26 nor 34, so I don't know what they mean.

One thing to note is that water plumbing is NOT tapered threads but cylindrical (straight) threads, so they are not compatable with NPT threaded tools and equipments.


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## wquiles

tino_ale said:


> About air plumbing : I JUST discovered that water plumbing are fully compatable with air plumbing


I am not picking on you, but that statement is NOT accurate at all. Not all water plumbing is fully compatible with air plumbing.

You need to be careful about the material and rating of the water plumbing before you consider it for air. Water plumbing might be rated up to 200-300 psi, but it is the PVC/plastic type, this pressure testing applies ONLY for liquid, not for air. This topic has been heavily discussed in detail here in this sub-forum and Barry has some interesting real-world experience of what happens when plastic water plumbing is used for air and then 3-5-10 years down the line it explodes - very scary stuff 

Will


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## tino_ale

Yes I should have said I'm speaking about brass fittings, ball valves etc.

Are copper tubings for water supply strong enough for air application ?


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## wquiles

Ahh - sorry if I was too hard on my reply. Yes, the brass/copper fittings and valves are perfectly fine for air. The complete professional air plumbing setup at my old lab (where the Quincy I bought was used) was all done with copper tubbing and brass fitting/valves


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## precisionworks

> Are copper tubings for water supply strong enough for air application ?


Most people consider soldered copper & solid brass the absolute best way to install an air system. The soldered joints are the weakest link in those systems, so some installers will use solder containing 2% silver for additional strength. Takes a bit more heat but a silver soldered joint should not fail in a lifetime or three :nana:


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## 65535

Or a properly brazed joint. Good enough for anything.


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## tino_ale

Hey guys,

Can someone tell me how I'm supposed to flush the water out of such an air filter/regulator ?






The base of the regulator is the inlet and directly bolted to the compressor reservoir.

edit : oh and BTW I'm asking because I just got a Michelin VCX 100 (100 liters, 10 bar, [email protected], twin cylinder belt driven). Hottest deal I've found, 300 euros for a week. The noise it makes is still significant but so much less ears hammering than my previous mono 50l...


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## 65535

Looks like the filter would just drain into the tank, so you would want to drain the tank, it will have a valve on the bottom which I would recommend replacing with a ball valve and appropriate plumbing. 

If there is no valve I would consider returning the compressor.


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## tino_ale

Hi,

There is a drain on the tank, which I've already replaced by a convenient ball valve 

I'm just wondering how the filter/separator can drain in the tank by itself ??? Separators usually have a small valve at the bottom of them that you press to drain the water. How is this one working ?


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## precisionworks

> The base of the *regulator* is the inlet and directly bolted to the compressor reservoir.


Your photo shows a regulator (pressure controller) ... it is not a FR (filter-regulator) nor is it an FRL (filter-regulator-lubricator). You'll want to install a filter directly after the regulator so that the air is filtered before it can get into an air tool.

The Motor Guard M60 (or M100) is one of the very best available: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WZYKAE/?tag=cpf0b6-20


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## tino_ale

The product description says "epurateur" so I assumed this device was an air filter + regulator combo like one of these. When I say filter I mean the vortex type wich is supposed to seperate some water out of the air and block some particles with a bronze sintered element. These seperator/filter normally need to be drained as the water will accumulate in the receptacle.

That being said, my unit has the inlet at the bottom of it so I must say I do not see how it could be a vortex type water trap/filter. As you say it is probably only a regulator, in that case the product description would be more than misleading, plus I'm not sure why it has this shape (like a water collector shape)

The motor guard is a pure filter without any water seperation capability. As far as my understanding goes., the ideal chain would be :

water trap (aka water separator/filter with a sintered bronze air filter element) > pressure regulator > air filter (aka motor guard) > air lubricator (if needed)


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## precisionworks

> The motor guard is a pure filter _without any water separation capability_.


Although it does function as a submicronic particulate filter, it also absorbs moisture until the filter element is saturated. We change the filter element every day & it's pretty moist after just eight hours of use. The moist filter is allowed to dry & can then be reused. 

Motor Guard cautions against leaving a filter element in the housing for more than a few days, as the moisture plus any contaminants will eat away at the powder coating inside the housing.

When I had a plasma cutter, the HTP MaxDry system was used. It consists of a filter-regulator, then a coalescing (oil separating) filter, then a silica gel desiccant bed. I added the Motor Guard right after the desiccant bed, but it was always dry because of all the upstream filtration and drying.

http://www.htpweld.com/products/accessories/a4.html#HTP%20Max%20Dry%20#25310


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## metalbutcher

Anyone have any opinions on Sanborn compressors? I'm looking at an 80 gallon vertical unit that is sold by my local home center. I believe it's going for about $850.

Thanks,
Ed


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## precisionworks

You'll want to look more closely at that unit ... an 80 gallon is usually two stage and priced around $1200-$1300. Single stage units run as little as half that price.

Look for the maximum pressure rating - 175 psi indicates two stage, less than that is single stage.

Look also for the cfm rating, as a 5hp motor will produce about 14-17 cfm. 

A better known brand is Ingersoll-Rand, and the price isn't much more for their compressor. Their 2340L5V (14cfm, 5hp, 60 gal, two stage) sells for around $1200 with free shipping.

The 2340N5V is the next step up (14 cfm, 5hp, 80 gal, two stage) and sells for $1400.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200318501_200318501

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200318461_200318461


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## metalbutcher

Barry,

Thanks for the info. I'll check out the Ingersoll-Rand since I drive by a Northern Tool store to and from work so it would be convenient to get one from them.
I want to eventually set up a small sand blasting cabinet so I'm assuming the 80 gallon would be the better choice for that. Other tools will be basic air tools like a die grinder.

Thanks again,
Ed


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## precisionworks

> I'm assuming the 80 gallon would be the better choice


+1

Even though both I-R models have identical cfm ratings, the larger tank is more desirable for blasting or running high cfm air tools like large grinders. In my shop, three 60 gallon compressors (plus a couple hundred feet of air piping) give me over 200 gallons of storage.


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## metalbutcher

Would L type copper pipe be good stuff to run air lines? The run would be about 50'.

Thanks,
Ed


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## precisionworks

Type L copper is well suited for low pressure air. See this booklet for info: http://www.chem.mtu.edu/~fmorriso/cm3215/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

For home shop use, copper is the nicest (and most costly) solution, because it never leaks when properly installed. Black Iron Pipe (BIP) cost less & is faster to install as the ends are threaded - the tapered threads plus Teflon pipe tape give a seal that is almost perfect. For long runs, where pressure drop dictates using larger sized piping, 1" or 1.5" BIP is the clear choice. For shorter runs, Type L copper is a good choice in 3/4" diameter.


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## metalbutcher

So is 50' considered a short run? In which case I can get by with 3/4" pipe.

Ed


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## precisionworks

If it were me, I'd use copper for a 10' or 20' run, and BIP for longer runs. No matter what the material, there is a loss of flow capacity as the length of the run increases. My "trunk line" runs 70' (above the finished ceiling) and is 1.5" BIP. It really easy to plumb in laterals and drops, and put in drops where ever you may need them in the future ... terminate them right below the finished ceiling and hook them up later as needed. Nothing is worse than having to redo air piping a few years after it was installed.

Here's a nearly ideal piping layout:http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/Files/3KDR3KDS/$File/DryAire_piping_layout.pdf?OpenElement


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## metalbutcher

Barry,

So now I'm thinking 1" BIP. Do you think that's adequate for my 50' run? I only want to do this once so I'll put in what's required even if it is more expensive. I really appreciate your help with this.

Thanks,
Ed


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## precisionworks

1.0" BIP will flow up to 25 cfm for 100'

1.25" BIP will flow up to 25 cfm for 350'

1.5" BIP will flow up to 25 cfm for 700'

(all the above are based on a one psi drop over the length of the run)

You stated 50' as the length of the run ... *but *... the total length of run must include tees, ells, 90's, drops, valves, etc. Figure an additional 5' to 7' for every fitting or valve. With that in mind, the 50' system can easily become over 100', meaning the need to upsize to at least 1.25" BIP.

It's impossible to oversize air piping, but is surely is easy to go too small.


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## precisionworks

Slightly OT but somewhat related is this true story ...

Customer brings in an I-R 3/4" drive impact wrench, complaining that it does not have the power it once had. The impact is torn down, cleaned, all new wear parts are installed, reassembled & tested. Testing confirms that the impact is within 2% of claimed torque.

Customer takes the rebuilt impact to work & states it still has little power. A visit to his shop quickly reveals a couple of problems. The main air line is undersized ... I-R states that the main air line must be three times the air tool inlet size, meaning that the 1/2" air inlet requires a main line size of 1.5". I-R goes on to specify that the branch line (or drop) must be two times the air tool inlet size, or 1" in this case. The drop is a 25' run of CoilHose, only 3/8" inside diameter.

I hooked up my "test hose" which is 1" ID, and ran this directly from the compressor to the impact. The impact ran like new.

That particular tool was an I-R 2141, which needs 40cfm under full load.


----------



## rwolff

65535 said:


> Barry, it's funny you mention the after cooler, I love it maybe convert a small AC heat exchanger into an after cooler, but my issue with the copper loop exchanger is that I burned myself on the aluminum pipe today when wiping the unit down after doing some leak checking. I just don't need a big foot diameter look of copper burning hot.
> 
> You wouldn't happen to know what kind of pressure a heater core is rated to do you?



I assume you're talking about an automotive heater core. If so, don't even think about it - they run at cooling system pressure, and it's been years since I've seen a radiator cap rated at more than 15 PSI.

An automotive air conditioner condenser, on the other hand, should work fine. R134a systems run at least 150-200 PSI on the high side (which is where the condenser is located - immediately downstream from the compressor). I know that the A/C shop I take my truck to tests the system with nitrogen at 400 PSI before they pump it down and add refrigerant.


----------



## precisionworks

It's inexpensive & easy to make your own air-to-air intercooler (between the compressor head & the tank:


----------



## precisionworks

Aftercoolers aren't too bad either:


----------



## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> It's inexpensive & easy to make your own air-to-air intercooler (between the compressor head & the tank:




Barry, did that coil for your after cooler start out as a 20' roll? Are you running some type of water seperator and the bottom/end of it?


----------



## darkzero

I recently picked up a bigger air compressor to replace my old one. I need to replace the pressure relief valve. The existing one is 150 psi 49 scfm. The two that I was looking at state they are 73 scfm & 132 scfm. The vendor selling the 132 scfm has something else I need to get so that would be best for me. Does it really matter which one I get or do I need to find one with scfm that is closer to my existing one? I assume they'll just discharge air faster when the PRV pops if my shutoff switch were to fail, I only need to worry about the psi rating, right? Never knew they had scfm ratings for them.

I'm also running a small 17 gal secondary tank which I'll be running on the new air compressor. I'm running a check valve on the inlet so I can disconnect it easier when needed. I never thought about putting a PRV on it but do I really need to since the air source has a PRV? I don't see any risk by not running one on it.


----------



## precisionworks

> Does it really matter which one I get or do I need to find one with scfm that is closer to my existing one? I assume they'll just discharge air faster when the PRV pops if my shutoff switch were to fail, I only need to worry about the psi rating


The code for unfired pressure vessels (ASME Boiler & Pressure Vessel Code VIII/Division 1) requires
PRV size to prevent pressure from rising more than 10% above Maximum Allowable Working Pressure during relieving conditions. Over sizing makes the valves prone to diminished performance, chattering, and premature failure. Even the smallest one that comes standard on the tank is larger than needed (put your ear protectors on, pull the ring & watch how fast the gage reading drops). 



> did that coil for your after cooler start out as a 20' roll? Are you running some type of water separator and the bottom/end of it?


Most soft copper tubing comes in a 50' roll. I bought the partial roll shown in the photo which has about 24' of stretched out length. The intercooler causes much of the water to condense out in the tank (rather than go downstream through the air piping) and the tank drain is opened daily so there's no separator.


----------



## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> The code for unfired pressure vessels (ASME Boiler & Pressure Vessel Code VIII/Division 1) requires
> PRV size to prevent pressure from rising more than 10% above Maximum Allowable Working Pressure during relieving conditions. Over sizing makes the valves prone to diminished performance, chattering, and premature failure. Even the smallest one that comes standard on the tank is larger than needed (put your ear protectors on, pull the ring & watch how fast the gage reading drops).




Thanks for the info Barry. I don't quite understand. A means of a PRV is required on all pressure vessel to prevent being an accidental bomb.  As long as the pressure rating is sufficient, why would a higher SCFM rating of the valve matter & what does it cause to have performance issues & premature failure? I would assume a higher SCFM may be louder & maybe an issue in certain work environments but I don't see why it would affect the saftey of the equipment? 

I won't be using the PRV as a primary means of discharging air, in fact I'll probably never touch it other than to occassionaly test that it's working. Yeah they are irritating loud which I found out when I was a kid. I'm only replacing it cause the one I have now doesn't seal very well & the higher SCFM is not by preference.

Well I got the 73 scfm one & will test it out this weekend.





precisionworks said:


> Most soft copper tubing comes in a 50' roll. I bought the partial roll shown in the photo which has about 24' of stretched out length. The intercooler causes much of the water to condense out in the tank (rather than go downstream through the air piping) and the tank drain is opened daily so there's no separator.



Does the air-to-air aftercooler work failry well just by passive cooling? The air compressor with be sitting in a corner with the compressor-to-tank pipe/aftercooler closer to the corner. The local big box stores only carries my size in 20' & 10' rolls. If it's worth it, I'll pick up a 20' roll & try it out after I'm done rewiring the garage the lathe & for the air compressor. I hope it's enough.

I've always known an aftercooler to be placed between the compressor outlet (after compression) & the tank and an intercooler to be on a two stage compressor placed after the 1st larger cylinder & before getting compressed again in the 2nd smaller cylinder?


----------



## wquiles

darkzero said:


> I've always known an aftercooler to be placed between the compressor outlet (after compression) & the tank and an intercooler to be on a two stage compressor placed after the 1st larger cylinder & before getting compressed again in the 2nd smaller cylinder?



In my Quincy, the aftercooler is positioned after the second stage, right in front of the motor pulley, which has built-in fan blades, and this leads to the water trap/container, which then leads to the tank:


----------



## precisionworks

> why would a higher SCFM rating of the valve matter & what does it cause to have performance issues & premature failure?


Not sure why Will but there are a number of references on the web to that effect.



> Does the air-to-air after cooler work fairly well just by passive cooling?


They are quite effective, especially for a device that costs nothing to run. Most larger compressors like the one shown in the photo above have a finned tube mounted near the fan for maximum heat transfer. My shop built AAAC drops the temp about 150° F and there's usually a cup of water to drain at the start of each day from each tank. That same cup of water (if not condensed out in the tank) would be carried downstream in the air lines to every point of use.











Because I purchased larger diameter tubing than that which came on the compressor a larger compression coupling was needed at the head. Then a reducing coupling was used at the end of the coil to connect to the smaller tubing that goes into the tank.






Look closely at the tubing in the two photos above & it's easy to see how much the heated air has discolored the tube. After about three or four feet of travel there is no more discoloration.


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## precisionworks

Not wanting to start a new thread but here's the scoop ...

Spent the last two days in a tiny, dark, warm, & noisy compressor room ... are you envious yet :devil:

The Eaton 25hp VSD rotary screw was acting up but Sam & I went through the drill & got her going. Then the owner & I pulled a 4000 hour maintenance - which was proceeding splendidly until a fitting would not seal. Neither Ace, True Value, O'Reillys, Autozone nor Rural King had a straight thread metric tube fitting but McMaster did. They were fine with the overnight & Saturday delivery charge because it's less than the big engine driven diesel they rented. Finished that today.

The Eaton 10hp 1ph rotary screw had a radiator cooling fan that would not run. Traced that down to a loose starting capacitor & fixed that issue. Then the pump would not go from unload (idle) to load (pumping). Traced that to a bad connection at the sensor & corrected that. Working on the Ingersoll Rand refrigerated dryer but that's another story.

As we were cleaning up the owner mentioned that they are looking at the Eaton 40hp VSD rotary screw. It's a bad boy, capable of 188 scfm @ 100 psi  http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/2499974/7619566.htm 

Which led me to ask the question "With a 25hp compressor & a 40hp compressor do you need that little 10hp compressor?" Probably not said he. This will not happen for a few months yet but the 10hp is going away & it may as well find a new home at the PrecisionWorks shop. I cannot imagine 45 scfm @ 100 psi from a small & quiet compressor. http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/2499974/2580413.htm


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> "With a 25hp compressor & a 40hp compressor do you need that little 10hp compressor?" Probably not said he. This will not happen for a few months yet but the 10hp is going away & it may as well find a new home at the PrecisionWorks shop.



THAT would be sweet


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## darkzero

That would be an awesome score Barry! :twothumbs

At my work we have a Kaeser rotary screw compressor with an air dryer unit & a 60 gallon tank. Just last month we moved to another building that is smaller & they have not found a place to put it. We are currently using a portable 30 gal Kobalt oil lubricated compressor & it sucks! No idea on the specs of the Kaeser but I loved how quite it was & it never spit any water out no matter how hard it was worked by all the techs.

Our new building used to be Standard Abrasives which got bought out by 3M then moved elsewhere. There are air lines throughout the building. It was such a shame to see so much copper lines & Apollo ball valves getting scrapped as well as that Kaeser setup just sitting in the back. We just got bought out & as of next month I will now be employed by Avnet!


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## precisionworks

> they have not found a place to put it.


Same situation here. If it follows me home it will get a separate enclosure next to south wall of the shop, facing the neighbors house. They'll probably think it's another central air conditioning unit & it's about that quiet. 



> We just got bought out & as of next month I will now be employed by Avnet!


Congratulations on continued employment. Buyouts are scary at best. As a friend so aptly says, "Work is the curse of the drinking classes."


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