# Car towed from shopping parking lot



## Wingerr (Jun 30, 2006)

Just heard from my friend that her car was missing when she walked back to it after shopping- thought it was stolen, but turns out the lot has a sign posted that says words to the effect that they tow cars if it is not taken with you when you leave the property for any time. So they did-

This is a strip mall shopping area, and a bunch of shops are all in walking distance, and one of the areas she went to was across the street, in addition to the stores she went to directly connected to the lot.
They want $150 bounty before releasing the car. Haven't picked it back up yet, as she has no way to get to the yard without a car, so who knows what damage they've wrought on it to boot.

So, my question is, is this a foolproof operation they've got going here? Apparently, they're saying what you need to do if you want to go to a shop across the street, you have to drive your car there and park it again. Being Long Island, people drive everywhere, but this is pretty ridiculous- 
Is there any legal recourse to disputing this, or are they shooting fish in a barrel?


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## Wingerr (Jun 30, 2006)

Here's the verbiage from the sign they posted, probably as unobtrusively as they could manage:

Private Property
Shopping Mall
Customer Parking ONly
You may not leave this property without your vehicle for any reason or for any length of time. Unauthorized parked and abandoned vehicles will be towed away at owners expense.
Auto Recycling 
Cars released M-F 10-7, Sat 10-2, Sun Closed, no cars released.

Reminds me of the guy in the movie Waiting...

I guess as long as they post a sign up, they can dictate whatever terms they want, since it's supposed to be private property.


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## PhotonBoy (Jun 30, 2006)

In this situation, I'd go to the shop/store where I normally do business and tell them I'll never go again due to the parking policy.


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## Wingerr (Jun 30, 2006)

She did, and they were all shocked to hear about it themselves- can't blame them, because they're individual stores in a strip mall, and they didn't have anything to do with the setup. They said they do that themselves, parking the car and walking around to all the different stores in the area.

I suppose the term is consent to the terms is implicit for anyone parking there.


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## greenlight (Jun 30, 2006)

Exactly! If you purchased items at that mall, you should be OK. Was there a store bag visible in the car? Do they want your business again?? 

I tend to see a security employee at the local Trader Joe's. He/she has a digital device for recording tags. Yet I have never seen or heard of someone getting tagged for parking in the lot. Maybe the human presence scares away long term parkers? I always go in to the store, purchase products, then head to the Whole Foods across the street. That takes 10 mins. I'd be pissed if I returned to a ticket because someone had watched me leave the lot.

To be fair, I'm sure there are lots that do get abused.


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## Jumpmaster (Jun 30, 2006)

Wingerr said:


> Haven't picked it back up yet, as she has no way to get to the yard without a car,



Can't take a taxi/bus or get a friend to take her there? Really??

This happens all the time here (college town). What they do is they contract with a towing company to do this (the owners of the property...usually not the people that lease the stores) and the tow truck company just sits in the parking lot (hidden) and vultures it watching for any possible violation. Happens all the time here. A friend of mine parked at a sandwich shop, walked over to the ATM in the middle of the parking lot, then went in to eat. By the time he came out, his car was gone. The store wouldn't or couldn't do anything about it...even with the time-stamped receipt from when he got his food and the ATM receipt. The ATM wasn't across the street...same parking lot, about 100 feet from the store.

I doubt there's anything she can do except pay the ransom. If she had enough money, she could probably fight it with an attorney, but it'd cost more than just paying to get the car back...it's quite a racket.

JM-99


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## turbodog (Jun 30, 2006)

Guess I'd say it's her fault for parking in a lot that has these terms. Got to be prepared to get popped.

She needs to talk the the lease company that the individial shops lease from.


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## Wingerr (Jun 30, 2006)

Too late to pick it up today since their operation is only open to 7 pm.
Told her not to make waves at this point since they've still got the hostage; don't want to create any reason for them to do damage out of spite-

Wanted to find out how to deal with it afterwards- if it were me, I'd probably try to publicize it as a service to other hapless victims. It's certainly not clear that the stores on the other side of the road aren't part of the same shopping complex.


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## Lightmeup (Jun 30, 2006)

There's a regular racket in Chicago doing this same scam. Often the owner of the parking lot gets a kickback from the towing company so they usually aren't very sympathetic to complaints. She did violate the terms of the sign by leaving the strip mall to shop across the street. You can't really blame them for wanting to limit parking only to their own current customers, especially if there is a shortage of spaces. Just because you spend a buck at the one of their stores doesn't entitle you to park there and shop elsewhere. Check out the car really good for damage. Most of those tow truck drivers get paid on commission so they're not usually very careful.


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## Wingerr (Jun 30, 2006)

Just as an aside, the lot was pretty much empty, so it wasn't a situation of limited parking. The place handling the operation didn't have information on the owner; they said they were contracted out by the towing company. Sounded like they were the third cog in the machine, owner, towing company, and then them. Confusing. Essentially they said, just read the sign, you only deal with us, and we don't even know who the owner is-


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## Mike Painter (Jun 30, 2006)

Wingerr said:


> She did, and they were all shocked to hear about it themselves- can't blame them, because they're individual stores in a strip mall, and they didn't have anything to do with the setup. They said they do that themselves, parking the car and walking around to all the different stores in the area.
> 
> I suppose the term is consent to the terms is implicit for anyone parking there.



I'd be a bit surprised to hear they had not heard of it. Signs like that (and guards at night) go up when the business owners complain their customers can't find a parking space. It happened to a friend who's shop was next to a resturant with limited and awkward parking. The resturant people would park in the mall's spots.
Nothing was done until the shop owners complained to the landlord.


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## LouRoy (Jun 30, 2006)

I think if this happened to me, I might just pay the towing company by check and then go straight to my bank and put a stop payment on the check. When they call to complain, I would simply tell them to have the owner of the shopping mall give me a call so we can discuss the situation. I would then ask him or her if this is really how s/he wants to treat good customers.


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## Joel (Jun 30, 2006)

I have a client out here in CA that is a retired lawyer. His son did the same thing and got his car towed. Even though the sign said it was parking for customers only, he took the towing company to court and won the case. He said there was a little known statute that said businesses that serve the public can't tow a vehicle unless it's been there for an hour or more. The Judge didn't even know about the law and they had to show him the statute so he could look it up. His son got the towing fee back and a nuisance fee as well. I'll have to contact him and find out if he was just pulling my leg (sometimes he just tells me BS) or this really does exist. It might also only apply to the city/town that he was in at the time.


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## DonShock (Jun 30, 2006)

I saw one of these type of cases on one of the TV court shows a couple weeks back. The tow truck driver was describing how they operate. He had a spotter on an upper level of another building with binoculars spotting "violators". When the judge asked how long it took to have the car hooked up and gone, he said just a minute or two. I can understand businesses wanting to protect their parking space, but this behaviour is ridiculous.


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## Lightmeup (Jun 30, 2006)

LouRoy said:


> I think if this happened to me, I might just pay the towing company by check and then go straight to my bank and put a stop payment on the check.


Nice try, but no dice. We don't take no stinking checks in Chicago.


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## BB (Jun 30, 2006)

In California, stopping payment on the check will get you a whole set of new problems... Might be lucky if you only end up paying several hundred dollars in bounced check fees. Basically, it is fraud.

Don't do it!

-Bill


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## Wingerr (Jun 30, 2006)

I'm pretty sure this outfit wouldn't even accept personal checks anyway- probably not credit cards either. 
I'll call up and ask them if the payment terms required are for $20's in unmarked bills or some such stipulation.

It's pretty obvious the intent is not to protect the lot, because all they would have had to do would be to come up to her and say, "Miss, you can't park here if you walk off the lot, not even for a minute, or we'll impound your car." Instead, they simply waited until the coast was clear, and did their business.
Just telling her as she parked would have the desired results for the purported reason for the tow, but not for the real reason it was done- ($$$)
Maybe the intent for the law is noble, but in this case, I see no real justification beyond $cam. Have to note if maybe I didn't clarify; she was shopping in the stores IN the same strip mall, but instead of starting up the car and driving 20 feet to the other lot to go to one of the other stores, she walked- That's the criminal act she's been convicted of.:thinking:

They need to draw a line of demarcation with a sign, "Now Leaving Strip Mall".


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## BB (Jun 30, 2006)

Yea, the law is frequently not your friend... My in-laws have a small apartment building and a tenant abandoned their mother's car in the carport when they moved out. Could not get the police to ticket for a tow, or a tow company to remove it.

Had to drag it out myself to street parking, then complain to the cops about the car with expired tags and parked for more than 3 days.

-Bill


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## nemul (Jul 1, 2006)

Wingerr said:


> This is a strip mall shopping area, and a bunch of shops are all in walking distance, and one of the areas she went to was across the street, in addition to the stores she went to directly connected to the lot.



how did they know she wasnt still shopping in "their" strip mall?
is there a guy with a tow truck watching everyone!?


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## LumenHound (Jul 1, 2006)

I've seen this before at strip plazas that have apartment buildings and larger office buildings with limited underground parking space within a 3 minute walk. If the apartment buildings are really old they may not have more than 1.5 underground parking spaces per apartment and with some of today's 3 car families you just know where some of those extra cars are going to end up parked most of the time.
In some cases the plaza parking lot can become half full of non-customer cars and these are cars that sit there taking up space from 9AM to 5PM. Sometimes the worst offenders aren't cars but large trucks that use the perimeter of the lot to park on while the driver gets some sleep at home nearby. Many apartment buildings just don't have the space in their outdoor visitor parking lot for big trucks.


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## Dawg (Jul 1, 2006)

Lightmeup said:


> There's a regular racket in Chicago doing this same scam. Often the owner of the parking lot gets a kickback from the towing company so they usually aren't very sympathetic to complaints. She did violate the terms of the sign by leaving the strip mall to shop across the street. You can't really blame them for wanting to limit parking only to their own current customers, especially if there is a shortage of spaces. Just because you spend a buck at the one of their stores doesn't entitle you to park there and shop elsewhere. Check out the car really good for damage. Most of those tow truck drivers get paid on commission so they're not usually very careful.


Lincoln Park Towing......Like me to sing a few verses from the song?


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## flashlite (Jul 1, 2006)

This exact same thing actually happened to me last year. $150 too!

Sometimes, these vultures only tow your car just around the corner so it's out of sight. They obviously don't tell you that until after you pay them though. That way, they can continue to rob other people without wasting time driving the whole way back their own lot. I doubt the car is there now but if it ever happens to you again, have a look around before you pay them.

Some jurisdictions have laws that limit the amount that tow companies can charge you. You might want to look into that.

In my case, the tow company made a critical mistake. They didn't write the amount on my Visa receipt. I discretely called the tow company the next day to find out how much it would cost to have my car towed 30 feet ($65). I then went to the bank and told them I only authorized the standard charge - $65. After Visa did their investigation, they gave me $85 back.


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## greenlight (Jul 1, 2006)

The Safeway lot across from ...re nightclub is abused nightly by clubgoers. There are a couple of late night businesses at the lot, but others are closed. You would never see the lot full at night, even with the clubgoers parking there. Nevertheless, the tow company has a field day nicking cars from the lot, or you get a ticket. People who are smart just do their best to park on the street, or take their chances. 

Like I said, if I was going to park in someone's lot for an extended period, I would at least have a shopping bag with some junk in it so that it would appear that I was a customer.


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## Coop (Jul 1, 2006)

Uhm, if the towingcompany can't prove that your friend left the strip mall, and they towed the car, wouldn't that be grand theft auto?


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## Wingerr (Jul 1, 2006)

flashlite said:


> Some jurisdictions have laws that limit the amount that tow companies can charge you. You might want to look into that.



That's something I was wondering about, but not sure how to go about finding out. If there isn't, then these guys pretty much have a blank check, as long as they've got the car locked up. They could say $500 just as easily, but probably realize they need to strike a balance between money and trouble. This seems more of an extortion racket rather than serving a legitimate purpose. Talking to the managers in the stores in the mall revealed none of them had any parking issues that warranted the operation. Money making, pure and simple. 




BB said:


> Yea, the law is frequently not your friend... My in-laws have a small apartment building and a tenant abandoned their mother's car in the carport when they moved out. Could not get the police to ticket for a tow, or a tow company to remove it.


They probably saw no monetary gain to be realized without an owner being involved..


Well, almost time now to take her over there to hand over the cash for the car's release, so we'll see what surprises they have in store-


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## Wingerr (Jul 1, 2006)

nemul said:


> how did they know she wasnt still shopping in "their" strip mall?
> is there a guy with a tow truck watching everyone!?



I'd imagine it was as DonShock mentioned; they probably have a spotter to look for opportunities, and they'd radio in to the tow truck to swoop in to snatch it. Don't know if they use a flatbed or drag-towed it. We'll see how the transmission or parking brake fared, if it wasn't a flat bed tow... They probably have disclaimers against damage, since they own you when you park on their lot, on their terms.


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## 3rd_shift (Jul 1, 2006)

Pay the towing company, and take the landlord to court with the shopping and tow release reciepts. oo:

Save the reciepts as evidence.
Also, don't forget punitive damages and any damage estimates to cover any damages to the car from when it was towed.
Landlords do have thier worst case scenario fears.
Now looks like a good time to make them come true for one. :devil:


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## powernoodle (Jul 1, 2006)

Some states have statues limiting the degree to which towing companies can rip you off. Might be worth it to try an internet search. www.findlaw.com . Not worth it to pay a lawyer.

Edited: I'm with the landlord on this one. Its the towing company you have a problem with.

cheers


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## snakebite (Jul 1, 2006)

have a trusted mechanic carefully inspect the car with witnesses and a camera rolling.
then once it is back in your control bring court action and become a gadfly.
do things that cost the stripmall owners money and grief.
like finding building code violations and reporting them.take pics with a polaroid and include them with the report.mail all the store manegers in the strip that untill this is reimbursed and the ripoff ended you and everyone you know will not be shopping there.
find out what other malls have the same owners/management and strike there too.


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## Wingerr (Jul 1, 2006)

I'll explore the options you've all mentioned, thanks-

Funny thing, this outfit just called, and they wanted us to come in soon to get the car (the "10AM-2PM" on their sign is apparently flexible). It seems this *one* car is holding them up from starting their holiday weekend- :huh2:
Or they have a one car lot and they need to clear out space for more customers- As much as I'd like to take her over there at 1:45, she wants to get it out of their clutches as soon as she can.

This will probably be a small claims court matter, but I think it'd do some good to make it known to all that frequent the place that they do this.


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## 3rd_shift (Jul 1, 2006)

Powernoodle, you may have a point here.
Still, it would be interesting to find out how the landlord's contract with the towing company is structured.
Not just any towing company can tow cars from thier parking area.
Only the one that the landlord allowed to do the "nasty".


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## BB (Jul 1, 2006)

Probably the best you can do is return everything purchased that day and inform the retailers why... That they tow their customer's cars and charge them some $150 for the privilege. Nothing would tick a store owner more than having a lot with free spaces and a done sale being returned because of what their landlord did.

And find out if the neighboring strip malls have the same owner and return those goods too...

Hmmm..., if any of those other strip malls you visited are owned by the same person/company (might be likely, you might even find several levels of "ownership" to argue; management company the same, or building owners, or land ownership--do the other properties contract with the same tow company? Argue that the since the same tow company is listed on all the signs, and they are the only name listed--you never left "their controlled" lot)--you might be able to argue that they towed the car while you were still on "their" property--in violation of their sign. Or if no owner was listed, you have no idea which is their properties or not

-Bill


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## Wingerr (Jul 1, 2006)

Just did the extraction, a real hole in the wall operation, with a tiny office to work out of, and the only one there someone who said he was a friend of the owner, and knew nothing about the operation. The owner already left for vacation (open season parking for the weekend?). The guy had a photocopied form with a handwritten amount paid, with no details listed. He said to call back Monday to talk to the owner, but I don't expect anything will come out of that; from past conversations with him. He just said "go back and read the sign, it tells you everything you need to know." He said there was no one else to contact about it; he didn't know the owner, and had that confusing bit about how he was contracted out by the towing company, as if it was a separate entity from him. 

It appears it's an autonomous operation, and he wasn't called by the landlord, and not the individual stores. I believe it's simply an operation where the landlord gets a cut from the proceeds, but doesn't need to take any active role in calling for a tow.


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## Wingerr (Jul 1, 2006)

BB said:


> Probably the best you can do is return everything purchased that day and inform the retailers why... That they tow their customer's cars and charge them some $150 for the privilege. Nothing would tick a store owner more than having a lot with free spaces and a done sale being returned because of what their landlord did.
> -Bill



It wasn't their doing though, so none of it was their fault.
I don't know how much effect it could bring about, since it's not a single store, just a bunch of small shops. They were all sympathetic when she walked in there asking if they knew anything about it. A young employee said it happened to her, but she didn't pursue it and just paid off.


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## CLHC (Jul 1, 2006)

greenlight said:


> . . .at the local Trader Joe's. . .I have never seen or heard of someone getting tagged for parking in the lot. . .I always go in to the store, purchase products, then head to the Whole Foods across the street. That takes 10 mins. I'd be pissed if I returned to a ticket because someone had watched me leave the lot.


That sounds like the Pruneyard area. Hamilton and Bascom. . .:thinking:


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## Lightmeup (Jul 2, 2006)

If this ever happens to anyone else, try not to let your car sit around their compound longer than necessary, because they will be billing you for "storage" on a daily basis, and it won't be cheap. The big outfits in Chicago are open 24/7, and when you go there, they usually just have one guy, a cashier, who sits behind bulletproof glass and only accepts cash. After you pay, he buzzes you through the security door and you can get your car, and he opens the gate so you can leave. There's not much you can do about it. Your only chance of avoiding the sting is if you can catch the tow truck driver before he gets your car hooked up, and physically intimidate him into stopping. Most of them have been threatened before, so you'd better know what you're doing if you try it.

I successfully intervened against one of the notorious Lincoln Park Pirates once. I had parked in a lot that was curiously empty, which I thought was odd, but I looked around and saw no No Parking signs, so I thought it was safe. After parking, I walked down the block a little and stopped to watch, and within 2 minutes a tow truck zoomed in to snag my car. So I ran down there and stopped the guy. He tried to continue hooking up my car, but when push came to shove he backed down. It didn't hurt that I was 6-1/220, and he was about 5-9/160. It turned out that there was a No Parking sign there, but it was hidden by a tree at the opposite end of the lot, about 100 feet away.


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## Wingerr (Jul 24, 2006)

News article on predatory towing

I guess it should be no surprise the company and guy 
involved is mentioned in the article.


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## Brighteyez (Jul 24, 2006)

As *Lightmeup* mentioned, it is a common scam that is engaged with the property owners and tow operators in collusion. It occurs in all major urban areas, and your Lat/Lon seems to indicate someplace in the NYC boroughs, so it really doesn't come as any surprise. While I know a number of methods to exacting restitution plus intrest from both the tow operator and the property owners, none of them are 'legal', so I won't discuss them. While it is more likely that the shopowner may have had knowledge of it and just denied it to protect him/herself, it is possible that the shopowner had no knowledge if it was some sort of conspiracy between the tow operator and the property owner (or their management company.)


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## MScottz (Jul 24, 2006)

If it is private property and properly marked, it's not a conspiracy or scam, no matter how unethical it may be. It's just business.


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## James S (Jul 24, 2006)

yea, it's private property, and it's all the fault of the landlord, but you STILL have to complain to the businesses. And if they are loosing your business, then they will complain to their landlord. And enough complaining and he'll do something. Enough lost business and the businesses will go somewhere else, or go out of business. 

You guys need to stick up for yourself and punish the only people that you can, the businesses that are operating there. And it will be up to them to insist that the landlord provide an atmosphere where they can do business. If the heat was broken he'd darn well hear about it, and if the towing company is broken they need to make sure he knows that too.

If you dont actually say anything, then everybody is getting away with it! Talk to every darn owner of every business in the mall. even if it's just dropping by to say hi and let them know whats going on.


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## Wingerr (Jul 24, 2006)

Yeah, ethics- who needs that nowadays when people are just trying to make a buck. 

Maybe hold a yard sale and post up a small sign saying anyone coming onto the private property is obligated to pay a $75 minimum charge to look. It's your property, after all, so you can dictate the terms, if I understand the concept clearly enough. Of course this idea would require some overhead in hiring enforcers to hold the prospective customers until they fulfill their obligations-


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 25, 2006)

Several phrases come to mind:

-Thieves
-Kidnappers
-Pirates

An interesting thing to do might be to walk into a police station, tell them your car was stolen, and call the ticket/notification a ransom note. Of course, they might fine you for wasting their time, so don't really do this.

This seriously sounds like carnapping to me. Weird.

If you really want it to stop, try picketing. If customers understand that they might be robbed with no legal recourse, they might reconsider their shopping options. I know this isn't fair to those who aren't at fault, but they might try to improve the situation.

All I know is that if this happens to my car (~3 weeks old), I'll be irritating everyone and anyone connected to it by any legal means.



Note: I condone no illegal actions. This post is for entertainment purposes only. If you get in trouble, I don't exist.


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## Lee1959 (Jul 26, 2006)

Why all the "get even" tactics? Why do anything when technically she was in the wrong. 

She DID park there, there WAS a sign plainly stating the rules and by parking there she accepted those rules. She DID leave their property, she DID leave her car there, so she DID break the rules. So what else should one expect but to pay the penalty. This is assuming of course that the rules are plainly stated in plain view of the public which unless I missed it, has not been shown one way or the other, but assumed to have been unobtrusive.

Yes it is a pain in the butt, but the mall does have the right to put rules on parking there. And it is up to the public to pay attention and see what they may be, and fillow them, or pay the consequences. 

Pay the charges and chalk it up to experience like an adult. If she does not want to shop there any more that is her perogative. Even if she wishes to state her opinion to the business owners, or in a local newspaper commentary that is one thing, but some of these other silly childish get even garbage is rediculous. Ignorance of the rules, or the law is no excuse for breaking them.


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## benchmade_boy (Jul 26, 2006)

Wingerr said:


> It seems this *one* car is holding them up from starting their holiday weekend


hek i would let it sit over there as long as possible to hold up there "holiday"

what holiday is it anyway?


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