# What is the pinnacle of Incan Flashlights in your opinion?



## Daekar (Oct 31, 2014)

I have a bunch of LED lights and in many ways they are superior to my two remaining incans, but in a way I see my Surefire lego incan as almost the last and best of an old breed - like the most highly refined carbuerated engine just prior to fuel injection, or a brass telescope made in the tradition of old world craftsmanship. To me, the lithium ion batteries, the multi-level soft start, the fabulous incan color rendition, and the form factor (2x18650 with KT4 and Lumensfactory bulb) just make it special in a way my more utilitiarian lights don't match.

What, in your opinion, is the finest incan torch out there? What is the aged wine and cheese of incan torches? Why?


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## archimedes (Oct 31, 2014)

Daekar said:


> ....
> What, in your opinion, is the finest incan torch out there? What is the aged wine and cheese of incan torches? Why?



SureFire A2 :thumbsup:

EDIT - Hybrid incandescent / LED (with both throw and flood), _regulated_ output, soft-start circuit, convenient size, nice beam, multi-color options, great style, ideal user interface, outstanding warranty, legendary toughness ....


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## Echo63 (Nov 1, 2014)

Surefire M3, with A2 a close second.

Th M3 throws a nice beam, is easily legoable with a KT4, giving a floody and throwy option, with two different output options.
its also easily converted to run rechargeables, just dump the 123 cells out, and throw a set of 17500 in.
if i could only have one light, and it had to be incandescent, it would be an M3/M3T


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## Timothybil (Nov 1, 2014)

Back in the day, when all I had was my trusty G2 with the HO-6 lamp, I always admired (and coveted) the M6 and the M3T. They just seemed like the best of the best, even tho I knew I could never afford them.


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## Phaserburn (Nov 1, 2014)

For the more $ sensitive, wolf eyes made seriously beefy lights that used all the great lumens factory lamps.


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## archimedes (Nov 1, 2014)

If we are allowing non-stock "mods" to qualify, the *wquiles* PhD-M6 is also near the top


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## sween1911 (Nov 1, 2014)

Surefire 12Z(P)M with the N62 lamp.


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## LED61 (Nov 2, 2014)

archimedes said:


> SureFire A2 :thumbsup:
> 
> EDIT - Hybrid incandescent / LED (with both throw and flood), _regulated_ output, soft-start circuit, convenient size, nice beam, multi-color options, great style, ideal user interface, outstanding warranty, legendary toughness ....



Ditto that. I run mine with a FiveMega Strion socket and bulb and it goes brighter without a hitch. I have grown so confident with the Strion bulb that I have one installed on my precious Black A2.


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## leukos (Nov 2, 2014)

I'll agree the A2 was probably the most amazing incandescent to every hit the market. The M6 commands some respect too, it oozes quality.


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## Echo63 (Nov 2, 2014)

sween1911 said:


> Surefire 12Z(P)M with the N62 lamp.


Really ? Its cool, but in a tim the toolman taylor "ugh more power" kinda way
12 mins of runtime, in short bursts, as it can trip the thermal protection in cells

back in the day, it was described as "the quickest way to flatten a set of cells, without shorting them with a copper rod"


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## scout24 (Nov 2, 2014)

Therefore, it was awesome...  

Tim would be proud, you're right. And he'd be looking for an N63 bulb for More Power!

I'm still trying for an appropriate response to the original question...


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## tobrien (Nov 2, 2014)

another vote for the A2 Aviator as well


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## mcm308 (Nov 11, 2014)

A2 . pretty much the only light I use..lol


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## Illum (Nov 11, 2014)

tobrien said:


> another vote for the A2 Aviator as well



+1

Sometimes I sit and wonder... what if the LuxV never made the show and blew the works. What would Willie create next with this magnificent concept.


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## patryk79 (Nov 18, 2014)

I'll throw in my MagCharger. Had it for years as a duty light and even though I replaced it with the new LED version, it's still my go-to when I patrol in heavy winter fog.


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## Timothybil (Nov 18, 2014)

I've been thinking about this off and on. Don't laugh, but I have to put up the original Surefire G2. Here was a flashlight that cost only $35, with a really neat non-metallic surface that took pretty much any kind of beating, with a really bright, almost perfectly even bulb/beam pattern. As the ads used to say, it would out power a 2D Maglite. This was one of the first lights to put a premium quality well performing light into the hands of everyday people. It is still being sold today, and when adjusted for inflation, probably cheaper now than it was then. It and its cousin the 6P were also the first practical P60/D26 hosts that got many of us started on LEDs as well.


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## magellan (Nov 18, 2014)

Well, it's not technically an incan since it lacks a filament, but it does have a bulb. But anyway, my Polarion PH40 Helios 40W HID (high intensity discharge) CWSL (Crew Served Weapon Light) is pretty awesome.


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## tobrien (Nov 19, 2014)

Timothybil said:


> I've been thinking about this off and on. Don't laugh, but I have to put up the original Surefire G2. Here was a flashlight that cost only $35, with a really neat non-metallic surface that took pretty much any kind of beating, with a really bright, almost perfectly even bulb/beam pattern. As the ads used to say, it would out power a 2D Maglite. This was one of the first lights to put a premium quality well performing light into the hands of everyday people. It is still being sold today, and when adjusted for inflation, probably cheaper now than it was then. It and its cousin the 6P were also the first practical P60/D26 hosts that got many of us started on LEDs as well.



I agree with you, the G2 (and its 6P cousin) got this stuff going so far as where we are now IMO. Good thinking man!


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## novice (Nov 19, 2014)

I have read that the A2 is one of only two flashlights to have had regulated incandescent output. Does anyone know what the other light was?


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## The_Driver (Nov 19, 2014)

Since you didn't say that is has to be a production flashlight, I want to mention my 120W Hotwire. I consider it the "pinnacle of incan flashlights" for multiple reasons, but mainly because it has probably the highest possible efficiency of any incan light - ~41 Lumens/Watt. It uses an overdriven Osram 64447 IRC bulb @ 18.5V. ~4900 bulb Lumens @ 118W. The light was measured at 3600 otf Lumens in a sphere. It beat all three Polarion PH50s (it was at a big flashaholics meet here in Germany) we had on hand (they did 3200-3500 otf Lumens). 

Additional reasons are that it is *regulated*, has an op-reflector which makes for a *nice beam*, uses *high capacity batteries* which are also *protected* (8 18650s), has an additional *over discharge protection*, has an *over temperature protection*, has mulitiple modes, runs for *35min with constant brightness* and *can be run continously* when used outside in the winter (doesn't become too hot). Oh and there is one more very important reason: the *bulbs only cost around 4$* here in Germany and *are readily available*!

Pictures can be found here. I wrote a thread on it in the German TLF Forum. I might do an Englisch version of it at some point.


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## cland72 (Nov 19, 2014)

Illum said:


> +1
> 
> Sometimes I sit and wonder... what if the LuxV never made the show and blew the works. What would Willie create next with this magnificent concept.




I'll also toss my vote in for the A2.

I agree with you - Surefire had a number of digitally regulated incandescent projects in the pipeline until the emergence of the LuxV. Then they all got scrapped


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## DRoc (Nov 29, 2014)

I have to agree with the A2 consensus...but it's my number two, just my opinion:
I'm a huge M2 fan. I own a few. IMO, no one else came close to a D26 offering with the shock absorbing bezel like SF did with their M2. I've lost a few lamps in a standard SF light without the shock absorbing bezel, but none in an M2. I use mine everyday, at work as a tech in the Air Force, home, in my hobbies like working on my trucks...it holds up.
That and my favorite D26 lamp is the P61. Yes, I know runtime sucks. Yes I know primaries are a pain...but I think there is only one lamp that trumps it in output (LF IMR 9), and even then I'm not sure if two 18350's could allow that lamp to throw more lumens than a P61 on fresh primaries in a P60 compatible host. That's debatable I suppose...
I've seen some threads where folks claim they can't tell the difference between a P61 and a P60, But I sure as heck can.
M2 gets my vote. Endless mods, compatibility, can still be EDC'd (IMO, as I do), many of them still out there (you can obviously make an M2 with just the bezel and a C2 if it's not in your budget...
Plus, I can dissemble every single part of my M2 and acquire replacements without difficulty. Glass, tailcap, etc...I know it's much more difficult to find replacement parts for my A2's.


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## socom1970 (Nov 29, 2014)

+1 for both the SF A2 and the Wquiles SF Ph-D M6. There's nothing like the REAL HCRI of properly regulated incans.:thumbsup:

To quote a fellow CPF'er, "LED's impress, but incans satisfy."


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## ma tumba (Dec 5, 2014)

+0.25 for the a2 (with stirion kit and calypso/koala ring), +0.25 for an m6/phd-m6, +0.25 for e2e, +0.25 for P61

BUT

the most versatile and useful incand setup that I use every day is the Fivemega 2x18350 e-series light with the adjustable turbo head a CL1499 and the AW 3 level soft start. This is 75% of perfection. And a SF FM34 diffuser adds the remaining 25%


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 5, 2014)

There are too many excellent incan lights to limit to only one. There are those that are small and pocket sized, with tiny WA or custom Carley made bulbs, hand held Mag variations from 1C to 3D with Osram, WA, or Carley bulbs, then the regulated types with either wquiles M-6, Alan, or Jimmy's regulators, then the various elephant size lights that all pinnacles in each of their categories. LED's are great too, but they are not "better" than incans, just a different type of light, akin to HID, LASER, spotlights, candles, etc.


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## leon2245 (Dec 5, 2014)

Easy, A2. Stock, factory regulation, surefire quality & lifetime warranty, and edc sized. 

2nd for me would be something weird I saw from one of the custom guys- it's a body that can take 4aa's & the incan 6p's lamp assembly, and has a crown type partial tailcap shroud.


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## A264 (Dec 5, 2014)

ditto to above post 2245, like it so much i have been concerned about availability and having enough for the rest of my life so far i have 12, 4 still new in package


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## socom1970 (Dec 6, 2014)

leon2245 said:


> 2nd for me would be something weird I saw from one of the custom guys- it's a body that can take 4aa's & the incan 6p's lamp assembly, and has a crown type partial tailcap shroud.



Doesn't have to be custom. I've got that setup with a Leef 3x18650 C-C HA body along with two delrin spacers from Oveready.com to keep the four AA's from rattling. Works like a charm with four AA Eneloops and all those P60 LA's we all have lying around after swapping them out for Malkoffs.


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## leon2245 (Dec 7, 2014)

^should have mentioned, this one I saw I'm talking about had all the Aa's side by side- all those eneloops & less than six inches long was why I'm wishing for it.

if I find it again I'll post it, can't find pics right now.


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## kelmo (Dec 13, 2014)

sween1911 said:


> Surefire 12Z(P)M with the N62 lamp.



Dam, now I got the urge to dig mine out of storage!

Let us not forget the M6 w/MN15 and the M3 w/MN11 LA!


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2014)

tobrien said:


> another vote for the A2 Aviator as well



And another here... with the FM Strion & Koala LED ring upgrades the light is by far my favourite, the only negative is the battery options.


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## kelmo (Dec 14, 2014)

DRoc said:


> ...I've seen some threads where folks claim they can't tell the difference between a P61 and a P60, But I sure as heck can...



Only the white wall hunters say that! To experience the difference in output you need to get out of the house!

Dam this thread has gotten me reloading my incans. It is foggy in Sactown and the weather is perfect for an incan.

As for making your own M2, you can get LU60 kits on the market place for about $50 bucks and they come with both P60 and P61 LAs.

Time to put a C2 with a P61 in my jacket pocket DRoc!


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## kelmo (Dec 14, 2014)

Timothybil said:


> I've been thinking about this off and on. Don't laugh, but I have to put up the original Surefire G2. Here was a flashlight that cost only $35, with a really neat non-metallic surface that took pretty much any kind of beating, with a really bright, almost perfectly even bulb/beam pattern. As the ads used to say, it would out power a 2D Maglite. This was one of the first lights to put a premium quality well performing light into the hands of everyday people. It is still being sold today, and when adjusted for inflation, probably cheaper now than it was then. It and its cousin the 6P were also the first practical P60/D26 hosts that got many of us started on LEDs as well.



I am partial to the yellow ones! And when SF started making them with LOTCs it completed the light.


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## magellan (Dec 14, 2014)

Love the brass telescope analogy, I always wanted one of those and an old style four poster globe in our living room. 

Another example might be a classic mechanical pocket watch before the days of modern electronic watches. 

Over the last couple of years, I've been semi-seriously collecting incans since it seems pretty obvious they will eventually disappear from the marketplace. So far I have 49 different incan lights (63 including duplicates) from 32 different brands/manufacturers. That's not counting Maglites, of which I have a bunch too, including some rare ones. 

Is is anyone else here collecting old incans? I'm sure there must be.




Daekar said:


> I have a bunch of LED lights and in many ways they are superior to my two remaining incans, but in a way I see my Surefire lego incan as almost the last and best of an old breed - like the most highly refined carbuerated engine just prior to fuel injection, or a brass telescope made in the tradition of old world craftsmanship. To me, the lithium ion batteries, the multi-level soft start, the fabulous incan color rendition, and the form factor (2x18650 with KT4 and Lumensfactory bulb) just make it special in a way my more utilitiarian lights don't match.
> 
> What, in your opinion, is the finest incan torch out there? What is the aged wine and cheese of incan torches? Why?


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## novice (Dec 15, 2014)

magellan said:


> Is is anyone else here collecting old incans? I'm sure there must be.



I don't collect incans _per se_, but I have saved a 4xD-cell camping lantern ("bores a 500-foot hole in the night!") from my childhood, and got another cheap vintage 3xD-cell flashlight ("Trailblazer") from a thrift store for its sheer funky industrial aesthetics. Slightly off-topic, but they both had such feeble light output from their screw-thread bulbs, that I got some dim screw-thread leds to replace the incan bulbs. In an extended power outage, these things would last _weeks_ on multiple alkaline D-Cells.

It probably goes against the intended spirit of the "Combatlight", but I do wish that Surefire had made a G2Z in yellow, and other bright colors. I think I'm more fond of the G2Z line than I am of the Z2 itself.


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## Brigadier (Dec 16, 2014)

For me, it is my PhD-M6/HO-M3T followed closely by my bored M3 using IMR18500's to drive the MN11.


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## DRoc (Dec 25, 2014)

Heard and understood, Kelmo. My EDC often is a C2M2 (for those who may not be aware, a C2 with M2 head)...I know it doesn't have the M2 lettering, but it's my go to, bich light. Sits in my pants when in uniform or civvies with my keys, gets beat up, my Spyderco Endura is clipped to my right cargo pocket at the top...the Z44 is wrapped in saran (kept close at home for led purposes) keeping it dust free because I'm fussy about those little details. I really like the p61. I find you get 20 solid minutes of white incan light...I like the p60 too, but it has less output, and not as white. There is an officer on my current course (mixed NCM's and Officers) that laughs at me because I carry a knife and a flashlight...I'm not sure he understands. I'm a tech in the Air Force now, and was a tech in the Army years ago,but he's younger than me, so I see why.
I guess there are those of us who embrace new tech and those of us that cling to the old...I'm kind of in between. I have LED's, but most often incans are in my pocket. All my lights get used. I've grown to understand that scrapes and marks on my flashlights, while they annoy me, are recordings of my professional life.






kelmo said:


> Only the white wall hunters say that! To experience the difference in output you need to get out of the house!
> 
> Dam this thread has gotten me reloading my incans. It is foggy in Sactown and the weather is perfect for an incan.
> 
> ...


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## flashfan (Dec 28, 2014)

The SureFire M6 gets my vote.


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 29, 2014)

kelmo said:


> Dam, now I got the urge to dig mine out of storage!
> 
> Let us not forget the M6 w/MN15 and the M3 w/MN11 LA!



M6 with a 2X18650 pack, and the venerable MN15 is awesome.

Bill


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## JasonC8301 (Dec 29, 2014)

Surefire E2e and M6 were my EDC lights about 13 years ago...


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## 5S8Zh5 (Dec 29, 2014)

The pinnacle of incan in my collection: G2 Nitrolon.



_


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## Closet_Flashaholic (Dec 30, 2014)

+1 for the Surefire M3. 

It was my first Surefire. That was many years ago. It is my only Surefire. I haven't needed any other incandesent since.. I have many MN10 and MN11 bulb spares (and carriers) - although about a year ago I got a couple of Malkoff xp-g2 LED upgrades for it (which, tint-wise, are completely and truly awesome!! BTW), but I switch between the incan and LED every once in a while. 

This light will likely last me the rest of my life.. I do have 30+ LED lights hanging around though - curiously, none of them are Surefires. I have 10+ AA minimags, a 3C and a 2D, but everyone was converted over to LEDs because the cost of the bulbs for them are just completely outragous.. 

Thanks for the tip on the 2 x 17500 rechargeable option, never really thought about it before... The M3 is the only reason that I have CR123 batteries in the house at all!


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## drillbit (Dec 31, 2014)

For me, it's a tossup between the A2, and the M6(MN15).


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## Kestrel (Dec 31, 2014)

If the high-output LED's hadn't come along, I would most certainly own a PhD-M6, with one bulb option being the MN-15.

*The SF M6 X-LOLA: 200 lumens for 2.5 hours*


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