# Whats the worst thing to find on your lathe?



## cmacclel (Jan 25, 2008)

*CRACK!!!!*

WTF  now to see what Grizzly is going to do about it! Just as I started getting used to and really starting to like my Grizzly G4003g lathe. I noticed this when I was going to install a nice DRO system.


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## gadget_lover (Jan 25, 2008)

That sucks big time. I'm so sorry to hear that.

I assume that welding the crack would deform the bed. Boy, I'd hate to have to crate that up to send it back.

Daniel


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## cmacclel (Jan 25, 2008)

gadget_lover said:


> That sucks big time. I'm so sorry to hear that.
> 
> I assume that welding the crack would deform the bed. Boy, I'd hate to have to crate that up to send it back.
> 
> Daniel




I'm thinking the only feasable fix would be to drill the top of the crack to prevent it from growing then putting a mending plate on with a bunch of screws. I do not think there is alot of stress where it cracked maybe just a flaw in the casting? But then again if there was no stress then why did it crack?

Mac


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## Mirage_Man (Jan 25, 2008)

Man, that sucks! Could it have happened during shipping and you just didn't see it until now?


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## cmacclel (Jan 25, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Man, that sucks! Could it have happened during shipping and you just didn't see it until now?



Yes it could have been there all along but I didn't see it until now. The crack is probably 3/4 way down about 6 inches in front of the tailstock in the back.

Mac


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## LukeA (Jan 25, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> I'm thinking the only feasable fix would be to drill the top of the crack to prevent it from growing then putting a mending plate on with a bunch of screws. I do not think there is alot of stress where it cracked maybe just a flaw in the casting? But then again if there was no stress then why did it crack?
> 
> Mac



There's a steel girder bridge near where I live. Right after it was put in, it developed a large crack in the center span, very similar to what happened to your lathe. They jacked the span up and bolted on reinforcing plates. That particular bridge has been in continuous service for 30 years since then, so I assume that that strategy could work for you.


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## Data (Jan 26, 2008)

that sucks. I doubt it will effect anything on the lathe precision wise. It could grow bigger though.

I wonder if Grizz will replace the lathe? They may if you make a big stink.

Have you been cutting something really big? :naughty:


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## McGizmo (Jan 26, 2008)

Bummer!!

I had a friend who owned a restaurant and he had a piece of equipment, can't recall what it was, that was cast iron and he asked me to weld a piece that had broken off. I wasn't successful with a stick welder and I seem to recall that you need to braze cast iron?!?

I like your idea of a hole at the top of the crack and some plates bridging the crack.

:shrug:


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## will (Jan 26, 2008)

Drilling a hole at each end will stop the crack. You have to make sure you get the same angle of the crack. Welding might work, but the heat could warp the bed.

Grizzly has a one year warranty on their machines, not sure how they handle equipment that size. Shipping it is expensive.

( for some reason I get 4 boxes with an X in the middle instead of pictures )


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## PEU (Jan 26, 2008)

I sell maintenance welding alloys for a living, and let me tell you, welding poor quality cast iron is not a simple task (I hope this is not your case) it can be done of course, either by brazing or by using electrode, the later has the advantage of no need to pre heat to cherry red the part to be repaired.

Either method needs the crack to be stopped, and the suggestions given here are the only way: drill a hole at the end of the crack.

If you plan to weld it, 1st make a chamfer all along the crack, welding rod only penetrates 1/3 of its diameter into the base metal, so if the wall is thick a chamfer is a must.

Also for cast iron, using a welding pattern like this helps to avoid further cracks:

--(1)--> <--(4)-- <--(3)-- <--(5)-- <--(2)-- this is to distribute heat evenly, keep the pattern for each layer. (use blackboard chalk to draw the pattern into the piece)

[edit] forgot to add, if you decide to weld, try to avoid doing it vertical, do it flat, it will improve your chances of a good repair significantly... I know its a lathe and is heavy, but I just wanted to let you know.

Isn't it covered by the manufacturer warranty?

Good Luck!


Pablo


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## cmacclel (Jan 26, 2008)

Yes it is covered under the MFG warranty. I called them an hour ago and of course the technical technicians will not be in until monday. 

At this point I'm going to slap it back together without installing the DRO until I see what Grizzly us going to do. Either they replace the machine or give me a hefty return, the value of the lathe is probably less than half of what I paid right now. I'd prefer to get half my money back than to have to move this 1500lb beast back out.

Mac


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## cmacclel (Jan 26, 2008)

Data said:


> Have you been cutting something really big? :naughty:





Hmm......... I don't think so unless you consider this BIG ???


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## TranquillityBase (Jan 26, 2008)

I'd bet Grizz will take care of the problem...At least you have a working machine until they decide what to do.


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## Anglepoise (Jan 26, 2008)

If Grizzly will not replace, do NOT attempt to weld or braze.
As others have advised, drill a small hole each end of the crack and apply a patch by drilling and tapping.

However before doing this, make sure the lathe bed is 'level' and not under any twist. Good articles on how to set up perfectly are online .
And check every once in a while to make sure' level' remains and hopefully you will have no problems.
Good luck.....


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## Data (Jan 26, 2008)

That is way bigger than my bolt!


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## smokin_arkie (Jan 26, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the crack, that seems like something Grizzly will take care of though. Reading about them on a number of machine tool forums it seems their customer service is really good. I imagine it will be particularly good on this machine since it is a new design and it was spec'd specifically by the president of the US end of the company who is an avid competition shooter. 

I'm in the local machining program and the tailstock housing on one of our Victor 1640 lathes cracked when someone tried to adjust it with it locked down to the lathe ways (a few years ago, before I started the program!). We discussed repairs the other day when talking about maintaining tools and he suggested that probably the only way was as has been suggested above: Drilling the ends of the cracks, tapping some holes, and putting a plate over it. However in this case since its under warranty I bet Grizzly will save you the trouble. 

The G4003G looks like a great lathe in general (aside from your recent problems) have you been happy with it outside of the crack in the body? I was looking it for a potential addition to my shop as well. 

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## jch79 (Jan 26, 2008)

Data said:


> That is way bigger than my bolt!



It's the birthday cake I've always wanted: Chocolate Aluminum.


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## LED Zeppelin (Jan 27, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> Hmm......... I don't think so unless you consider this BIG ???



That's not big, that's HUGE!

Lathe problems aside (hope you get it sorted), I can't wait to see what that mass of alum gets turned into.


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## Torque1st (Jan 27, 2008)

Get the lathe replaced. It could be shipping or even installation damage. That crack will throw the tailstock out of alignment. Essentially there is a shallow "V" shape to the ways and they are twisted. The lathe will also vibrate easily during some cuts. The only way to repair it would be brazing and re-machining the ways.


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## kromeke (Jan 27, 2008)

Did you every fix your surface finish problems you mentioned in this thread:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=138345


That crack could certainly contribute to problems with surface finish.

Bummer about the crack. Hope Grizzly does you right.


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## Data (Jan 27, 2008)

kromeke said:


> Did you every fix your surface finish problems you mentioned in this thread:
> 
> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=138345
> 
> ...



Yes it could on really large cuts but probably only to the same degree that a fly heats up the room it flies around in.  The real danger is the crack could continue till it goes all the way through. Then you got a problem.

Those PM guys are nasty at times. I think many of them have not had their morning coffee when they start posting. Still, most over there are wonderful people just like here on CPF. CNCzone is better moderated.

Cheers
Dave


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## kawgomoo (Jan 27, 2008)

you can weld it, they have special rod for tig welding cast iron. there is actually a whole video in the hobart school of welding technology library dedicated to this subject. 

the problem is not pre heating, the rate in which it cools is the issue. typically it needs to be preheated, welded then buried in ash or sand and brought back down in temp ever so slowly. 

they have these giant staples that make the cast piece look like frankenstein, or you can plate it. or you can weld it. i think its high nickel rod 99 0r 33, i hear stainless works as well... 

i vaguely remember something about stipling the area around it before you weld it. once again its been several years since i watched the video. but if you cant get it fixed i can track it down for you if interested.


on big projects i believe he used gas torches to keep it warm moving them away or decreasing flame to slowly cool the work area.


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## cmacclel (Jan 27, 2008)

Data said:


> Yes it could on really large cuts but probably only to the same degree that a fly heats up the room it flies around in.  The real danger is the crack could continue till it goes all the way through. Then you got a problem.
> 
> Those PM guys are nasty at times. I think many of them have not had their morning coffee when they start posting. Still, most over there are wonderful people just like here on CPF. CNCzone is better moderated.
> 
> ...



I see you read that thread 

Funny thing is the guy that was ring my a** wanted me to build him a light 

The surace finish is still not as good as my belt driven lathe but I chocked that up to the geared head. It surely is no Hardinge!

Mac


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## kawgomoo (Jan 27, 2008)

let me know how it turns out, i have that exact same lathe... i think. grizzly gap bed gunsmith lathe


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## cmacclel (Jan 27, 2008)

kawgomoo said:


> let me know how it turns out, i have that exact same lathe... i think. grizzly gap bed gunsmith lathe



You think  It's the 4003G.

Mac


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## kawgomoo (Jan 28, 2008)

great now you have me all paranoid.. lol

how long have you had it?


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## Rothrandir (Jan 28, 2008)

Sorry about the lathe Mac, I'd be pretty darn upset if I found a crack in my lathe too...

If you don't mind me asking, what's the big chunk of aluminum for, and how big is it?


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## cmacclel (Jan 28, 2008)

kawgomoo said:


> great now you have me all paranoid.. lol
> 
> how long have you had it?



I ordered it in December of last year but the lathe did not ship until march. Right after I moved the new lathe into to my workshop at my apartment I purchased my first house and didn't start using the lathe until a couple months ago.

Mac


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## kawgomoo (Jan 30, 2008)

how did you move it around? any crazy lifting in the middle, or did you grab it at the ends?


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## cmacclel (Jan 30, 2008)

kawgomoo said:


> how did you move it around? any crazy lifting in the middle, or did you grab it at the ends?



The lathe was only moved while it was bolted to the original shipping pallet. All moving and pushing force was to the pallet only.

I did pick the lathe up about an inch off the floor using 2, 2-ton come along's. Both come along's where routed under the bed on each end of the lathe.

Even if the lathe was picked up from the middle there is no way the bed should crack.

Mac


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## Torque1st (Jan 30, 2008)

What is the lathe bolted down to?

I moved my 2500# lathe via a chain thru the diagonal bed webbing near the headstock. Of course the webbing is 2" thick and about a foot deep.

If you weld or braze the crack the bed will still be distorted and need to be re-machined.


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## will (Jan 31, 2008)

Did you hear anything from Grizzly?


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## cmacclel (Jan 31, 2008)

will said:


> Did you hear anything from Grizzly?



They said they would replace it. I asked for a partial refund if I fixed the lathe instead of going through the hassle. I said $1500 would work....they offered a $300 gift certificate,I took the replacement. Guess what...... they do not have any in stock, possibly March.

They wanted me to build a crate to ship the cracked one back first. I had to purchase a new one, when they receive the cracked unit they will refund me for the new lathe.

Mac


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## LED Zeppelin (Jan 31, 2008)

That's bogus!

If that's the case, why not ship you a new one first, then you can use the same crate to send back the cracked lathe. Otherwise you'd be out of a lathe for who knows how long?

And why not extend you 90 days credit on the new one, to be offset when they receive yours back? That way you're not having to finance their mistake, and risk not getting a full refund.

And what about shipping charges? The least they could do for your troubles is to cover shipping both ways.

I see it as only fair that you get the lathe replaced with minimal downtime, and no additional expense. Crating it is hassle enough, and if they were honorable they'd give you the $300 gift certificate for that alone.


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## cmacclel (Jan 31, 2008)

They are paying for shipping both ways thank god!

I'm still waiting for a call back 

Mac


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 1, 2008)

Man, what a disappointment and hassle to deal with. I feel for ya, Mac, and know how that would frustrate me.


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## havand (Feb 1, 2008)

The payment part is not ideal. What happens if your lathe breaks and you don't have the extra cash to put up? Not cool. However, I am glad they're going to come through for you... especially the shipping!


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## will (Feb 1, 2008)

I think that Mac could ship back the original first. He would have to make up a crate for it, and he would not have a lathe during the replacement process. That way he would not have to lay out any money. 

just a note, for expensive items I purchase, I keep all the packing material for a while. That is in case I have to return the item.


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## frisco (Feb 1, 2008)

Actually if you think about it....... Not bad...... You coulda done allot worse!

I know it's a big pain in the butt and you probably have better things to do....But worse stories have been told! 

What if you didn't get your DRO? And you found the crack a year from now!

Just trying to look at the bright side!

friaco


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## PEU (Feb 1, 2008)

Take their offer to replace and when you have your new lathe, file a report with your local BBB for them to reimburse all your crating expenses.

I don't live in the USA neither I am an US citizen, but I have filled complaints with the BBB twice and they resolved in my favor both times, great service there! they take around 90 days to resolve but they care!

Good Luck


Pablo


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## Torque1st (Feb 1, 2008)

By buying a replacement lathe he will have his present machine to use in the interim. He will also have the packing crate and materials to send the cracked one back. Of course if the new one has problems he won't have shipping materials...

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2008/Main/557

One thing that bothers me while reading the ad for the lathe. They pointedly advertise the use of a torque wrench to secure the tailstock. Are they aware that the lathe has a fragile bed that will crack easily?

*Watch out for a Grizzly lathe on eBay with no mention of the crack...*


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## gadget_lover (Feb 2, 2008)

The torque wrench is to be used to tighten it the same every time so it deflects the same every time. That's a "good thing".


Daniel


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## LED Zeppelin (Feb 2, 2008)

Mac, send your Grizzly rep a link to this thread and let him know that potential customers are watching. How they resolve this issue could influence any one of ours decision on what lathe to buy when we are in the market.

The work you do on the Grizzly speaks highly of both you and the machine. But how they handle this problem could very well be a determining factor when the next member asks "Which lathe to buy?".


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## Torque1st (Feb 2, 2008)

gadget_lover said:


> The torque wrench is to be used to tighten it the same every time so it deflects the same every time. That's a "good thing". Daniel


It should not deflect at all in the first place under any human powered torque unless something is real weak.


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## gadget_lover (Feb 2, 2008)

Torque1st said:


> It should not deflect at all in the first place under any human powered torque unless something is real weak.



I quite agree, but evidently the folks on a gunsmithing forum did some tests and found found that the centering of the tailstock was most accurate when tightened to the same torque each time. Maybe the only reason for that was to avoid under tightening. I don't really know,

The "good thing" in quotes was meant to indicate something that's a gimmick to differentiate between models. Not a truly good thing.

Daniel


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## will (Feb 2, 2008)

gadget_lover said:


> I quite agree, but evidently the folks on a gunsmithing forum did some tests and found found that the centering of the tailstock was most accurate when tightened to the same torque each time. Maybe the only reason for that was to avoid under tightening. I don't really know,
> 
> 
> Daniel



There may have been something slightly off in the tailstock.


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## frisco (Feb 2, 2008)

When we bore out cylinders in race engines, We use a "torque plate" to simulate the cylinder head bolted to the block. The torque from the head bolts slightly distorts the shape of the cylinder.

frisco


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## NextLight (Feb 2, 2008)

LED Zeppelin said:


> Mac, send your Grizzly rep a link to this thread and let him know that potential customers are watching. How they resolve this issue could influence any one of ours decision on what lathe to buy when we are in the market.
> 
> The work you do on the Grizzly speaks highly of both you and the machine. But how they handle this problem could very well be a determining factor when the next member asks "Which lathe to buy?".



I am also watching this closely to see how Grizzly takes care of your problem. As a fan of your work, I have been exploring machine tools since I first saw pics of your new shop and wondered how much it would cost me to add turning and milling capabilities to my shop. (not that I could work at your level level even if I had all your tools!)

Good luck,
David


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## Torque1st (Feb 3, 2008)

frisco said:


> When we bore out cylinders in race engines, We use a "torque plate" to simulate the cylinder head bolted to the block. The torque from the head bolts slightly distorts the shape of the cylinder. frisco


Around here shops that know what they are doing use torque plates on all engines. Only an el-cheapo bare bones rebuilder does not use them.

Engine blocks are far thinner than a good lathe bed.


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## wquiles (Feb 4, 2008)

I am sorry to hear about your lathe problems Mac - I hope the replacement unit will be back in stock sooner than March.

Will


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## cmacclel (Feb 4, 2008)

wquiles said:


> I am sorry to hear about your lathe problems Mac - I hope the replacement unit will be back in stock sooner than March.
> 
> Will



They found one??? Whatever that means??? 

It's shipping today.

Thanks Mac


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## LED Zeppelin (Feb 4, 2008)

Great news, sounds like they're stepping up as they should.


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## MikeSalt (Feb 4, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> They found one???



Yes, because lathes easily get lost between the cushions on the sofa :thinking:

Having said that, my PhD "found" a spare power supply for a particle accelerator magnet, and they are certainly not small.

Looks like they have taken care of you, but not in the best possible way. Hope it does not inconvenience you too much.


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## cmacclel (Feb 5, 2008)

New Lathe is in town and will be delivered tomorrow.......WOW that was fast!

Mac


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## 65535 (Feb 6, 2008)

Good to hear you got a new one so fast, hopefully everything goes smoothly.


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## Radio (Feb 6, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> New Lathe is in town and will be delivered tomorrow.......WOW that was fast!
> 
> Mac



It sounds like they may have rerouted one that was already in transit to someone else, not bad, good for you!!!! :twothumbs


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## wquiles (Feb 6, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> New Lathe is in town and will be delivered tomorrow.......WOW that was fast!
> 
> Mac



That is awesome dude! Please take pictures again when you get the new one - we all love to see pics of your new toys :devil:

Will


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## KC2IXE (Feb 7, 2008)

MikeSalt said:


> Yes, because lathes easily get lost between the cushions on the sofa :thinking:
> 
> Having said that, my PhD "found" a spare power supply for a particle accelerator magnet, and they are certainly not small.
> 
> Looks like they have taken care of you, but not in the best possible way. Hope it does not inconvenience you too much.



From what I gather - a lot of these machine tools are shipped on the "we have a container full of machines, ship it on the next ship that has spare space" (aka low priority) - so they got in a container, opened it up and said "cool, a gunsmith lathe"


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