# Surefire M6 on the way *-*-*-*New question in post #37*-*-*-*



## Tim W (Mar 25, 2009)

I've been reading most of the threads on the M6 that were in the sticky list and have a lot more to do, but I just want to double check that I've got my facts straight.:thinking:

According to DM51's shoot out thread, I should be fine with the HO-M6R Bulb from lumens factory and one of Fivemegas 3x17670 holders, correct? Also, I know it will be underdriven somewhat, but will that bulb work if for some reason I need/want to use primary's in the stock battery holder?

Hopefully, in the not to distant future, there will be more of the bi-pin adaptors available. I'll definately get in on one of them also.

I've been wanting one of these for a long time, but the smaller lights always seemed to win out, now its time to make up lost time.

Thanks,
Tim


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## Patriot (Mar 25, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

I've just gotta saw howdy to anyone with an M1 Garand as their avatar! :wave:
I own two of them and believe they're one of the sweetest rifles ever made.


Likewise I think the M6 is one of the best lights ever made too which the multiple output options have further reinforced. 

The HO-M6R will run great off 3 x 17650's or 6 x RCR123s mounted in the stock carrier and that same bulb will also operate from 6 x primaries in a pinch although under driven. 

The bi-pin holder is a nice accessory but if I only owned one M6 it would be hard to beat the MO-M6R set-up. It's truly the best combination of output and run-time. The 1185 limits practicality but FM's new 3 x 18650 body improves that combination significantly imo. 

Congrats again about your new M6!


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## Tim W (Mar 25, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*



Patriot36 said:


> Likewise I think the M6 is one of the best lights ever made too which the multiple output options have further reinforced.
> 
> The HO-M6R will run great off 3 x 17650's or 6 x RCR123s mounted in the stock carrier and that same bulb will also operate from 6 x primaries in a pinch although under driven.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the confirmation!

What is the run-time on 3x17670 - about 45 minutes?




Patriot36 said:


> I've just gotta saw howdy to anyone with an M1 Garand as their avatar! :wave:
> I own two of them and believe they're one of the sweetest rifles ever made.



Howdy! :wave:
They sure are sweet! I've gotta quit buying flashlights, as I eventually want to have a complete collection of all 4 manufacturers. I only need the Winchester to finish it off, plus I've got a second Springfield that was re-finished and has a new barrel that is my regular shooter.

Maybe when the M6 gets here, I'll take a "family" pic of the M1's and my lights. See if I can get a little creative!


Tim


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## Patriot (Mar 25, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*



Tim W said:


> Thanks for the confirmation!
> 
> What is the run-time on 3x17670 - about 45 minutes?




Yes or just slightly more. I get about 40 minutes from the RCR123s but the 17670s have slightly more capacity. The unprotected ones have yet more capacity, 1800mah iirc, which is what I've been using. 



I'd love to see a picture of your M1's sometime. I'll post my two and include some of my father's 8 different ones too. He's got each manufacturer while I just own a Springfield and a "tractor gun"


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## jumpstat (Mar 26, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

Congrats on your new M6. I'm running mine with HO-M6R and 3x17670 Protected cells. Very good setup. The bulbs are well made also.


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## sledhead (Mar 26, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

Also like to say congrats on your new M6. I run mine with 3X17670's and the MN61 lamp. I have not had any "flash" problems. Must admit that I'm going to try the HO-M6R next though.


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## tx101 (Mar 26, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

Congrats on the SF M6

3 x 17670 cells + LF HO-M6R = :devil::devil::devil:

Thats one of the combinations I use with my M6
but because Im basically a LED guy I normally have
a LED tower module installed in it


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## Tim W (Mar 26, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

Thanks for all the info, guys.

So far, I've got the 3x17670 holder, HO-M6R bulb, and a few more batteries on the way.

Can't wait to try this thing out!!

Tim


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## JNewell (Mar 26, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

That's the configuration I've settled on. It's a very attractive balance of lumens and runtime and doesn't put a lot of primaries in the landfill.



Tim W said:


> Thanks for all the info, guys.
> 
> So far, I've got the 3x17670 holder, HO-M6R bulb, and a few more batteries on the way.
> 
> ...


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## kelmo (Mar 27, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

I run mine with a MN15 LA.


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## Grox (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

This the combo I settled on as well. I've tried the MN20, MN21, MN61, and 1185 and the HO-M6R 3x17670 is a beautiful balance of runtime (at an sensible current draw), colour temperature and light amount.


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## Patriot (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

Did ya get it yet?


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## Tim W (Mar 28, 2009)

*Surefire M6 arrived two days early!!!*



Patriot36 said:


> Did ya get it yet?




:twothumbsYeah, it actually *did* come today, even though it should have taken until Monday. Every now and then the USPS amazes me!!

:thumbsdowUnfortunately, don't have enough batteries on hand to try it out - *THEY* are still on schedule for Monday!!

Since you also have an appreciation for the M1, I'll try to get some pictures of both sides of the "family" tomorrow.

Tim


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## Tim W (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*



kelmo said:


> I run mine with a MN15 LA.



That one would only be used with primaries, though, right?

Tim


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## kelmo (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*

That is correct. You will get at least 2 hours of great light output.


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## Tim W (Mar 28, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way (Sniped it on Fleabay!)*



kelmo said:


> That is correct. You will get at least 2 hours of great light output.



That's what I thought. May have to pick one of those up to try and keep with a set of primaries for emergency use.

Thanks,
Tim


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## Tim W (Mar 29, 2009)

*Surefire M6 and friends*

Probably not the most creative photos in the world, but as promised here are a couple photos of my two main hobbies:






Left and right M1's are Springfields, in the middle are HRA (top) and IHC (bottom) and a National Postal Meter M1 carbine at the very bottom.






My biggest and smallest.






And the whole family: M6, M2, a couple Lummi's, a CPF safelite, a nitecore ex10, and a McGizmo Ti-PD s (left) and LunaSol20 (right) flanking it.



Hope everyone enjoys the pictures.

Tim


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## GunSmoke16610 (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

Thats awesome! I also bid on that one. Congrats!


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## Tim W (Mar 31, 2009)

*Surefire M6 - WHY did I wait so long to get one????*

Well, got all the extra goodies I ordered.

I did play around a little with the MN21 bulb and primaries, and while the amount of light that combo puts out has a tendency to make a person grin:devil:, I don't think I'll use it much. Even with off-brand batteries from the internet I think it would be a bit on the expensive side to run.

Next up, I've been playing with the HO-M6R from lumens factory and fivemegas' 3x17670 with AW brand cells. SWEEEEEEET!! So far I only did one run-time test and got right at 40 minutes (10 on, 10off, four times) before the protection circuit on the batteries kicked in.


Looking forward to fivemega (hopefully) making another run of bi-pin holders, as I'd really like to try a couple of those options, also.


One question, why is the surefire bulb frosted at the end and the LF one is not? The main difference I see between them is that the LF bulb has a somewhat smaller hotspot. Does it make a difference in throw? I live in the woods, and both really light up everything I can point it at, but the farthest I can really reach out is only about 200 feet. I've been too lazy, plus it has been cold, to go for a walk and try it out out in the open to see which one reaches out the best.


Thanks,
Tim


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## GunSmoke16610 (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 - WHY did I wait so long to get one????*



Tim W said:


> One question, why is the surefire bulb frosted at the end and the LF one is not?
> Thanks,
> Tim


 

Good question. Here is the business end of my 1185

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/GregPrim/MilkySpit/P1010149.jpg

*[over-size image replaced by link - DM51]*


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## Illum (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 - WHY did I wait so long to get one????*



kelmo said:


> I run mine with a MN15 LA.


 
good recommendation, LONG runtime and excellent throw.
While it is not intended to be operated in the M6, its very workable [with the MB20 holder, I think 3x17670 will ]
Story of the X-LOLA MN15 here




GunSmoke16610 said:


> Good question. Here is the business end of my 1185
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/GregPrim/MilkySpit/P1010149.jpg
> 
> *[over-size image replaced by link - DM51]*


 
you had to work that milky mod in there didn't you

It supposedly has something to do with artifacts in the hotspot if light is allowed to pass through the tip of the envelope where the glass isn't flat, so a diffuser is in place...if you notice certain automotive headlights have the lamp tip completely opaque. 

the LF-HO-M6R's envelope design and focusing is different from that of the surefire lamps. So instead of a conventional football hotspot you should see something much more rounder.

The only issue with lumen factory's lamps is tungsten buildup over time
heres mine after about 6-7 cycles



 



Theres going to be a straight line decrease in performance until either the envelope is saturated causing the lamp to overheat and fail...or the filament goes...but at this rate I expect it to go through another 6-7 cycles with no problems

My setup as of now exists as the 1185 too


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## Patriot (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

Great pictures Tim. It's neat to see that you got a "Magnumlight" with old style bezel. It has become my favorite style since it's such a classic. Surefire has always been about the smooth beam so they frost thier bulbs to minimize artifacts at the cost of some throw. The bulb frosting is actually secondary to throw loss when compared the the textured reflector where most of the throw is lost. Still, I do love the smoothness of SF's incan beams so I don't miss absolute throw. If I need that I'll grab a different light. 


Your M1's look great too. Nice that you have three manufacturers. My dad and I restore and accurize M1's and we've kept some beautiful examples. Most are older DCM (now CMP) and have been rebarreled, reparkerized, or rewooded. We try to fix only what's necessary which maintains some of the original character. I'll have to post the others over in the collectors thread. 







This one is a Springfield in 30.06, early milled trigger guard, early 180,000 serial number range Fajen Stock, original parkerizing, NM sights. It's glass bedded and fully accurized. Original Springfield barrel measures #2 at muzzle and a #2 chamber and manages about 2" groups @ 100. I shot a 352 with it at a DCM 600 yard match which I was very pleased with. It also happens to be my favorite since it was my first M1. 

...Also to stay somewhat on topic are a few M6's in various configurations. One is missing and I have a FM M6 body coming which I'll build onto another head when it arrives. I'll post some more M6 pics when it's completed.


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## Illum (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

M6+KL6 
Not as bad looking as stumpy "M6-M3" but I get its very useful:devil:

hey! you lopped off the 36 from your name. Now I can call you _the _Patriot


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## Patriot (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

One of the nearly famous M6/3 combos now. That one is a Milky P4 USWOH @ 1A. Awesome run-time and the tint isn't bad either. 

Yeah the "36" is gone now. People would often shorten it to just "Pat" which caused some to think that was my first name...lol. I'd get PM's saying, "howdy Pat" or "thanks Pat." Maybe now they'll just type Patriot or Paul, either is good. 




Paul


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## Tim W (Mar 31, 2009)

*Surefire M6 - WHY did I wait so long to get one????*



Patriot said:


> Great pictures Tim. It's neat to see that you got a "Magnumlight" with old style bezel. It has become my favorite style since it's such a classic. Surefire has always been about the smooth beam so they frost thier bulbs to minimize artifacts at the cost of some throw.
> ...have a FM M6 body coming...



Thanks.

I was hoping that was how it would be marked, as I have a M2 that is several years old and has the same "Millennium Series" logo.

That makes sense about the frosted bulbs, as I do think that the MN21 is a slightly smoother beam than the HO-M6R.

If I hadn't just ordered the 3x17670 holder and extra batteries, I would have jumped on FM's "megalennium" also. I kinda like the fact that it is almost an inch shorter than stock.

Haven't decided if I'm going to try one of AW's soft-start 3 level switches yet but it sure looks tempting.



Patriot said:


> ...Springfield in 30.06, early milled trigger guard, early 180,000 serial number range Fajen Stock, original parkerizing, NM sights. It's glass bedded and fully accurized. Original Springfield barrel measures #2 at muzzle and a #2 chamber and manages about 2" groups @ 100. I shot a 352 with it at a DCM 600 yard match which I was very pleased with. ...



NICE!!
I may one day look into fully match conditioning an M1, but right now my main "competitive" interest with them is JCG matches and they have to be completely stock for that.
As an aside, the basic M1 _*can*_ still shoot: I went to Camp Perry in 2006 for the National Matches and since it was (probably) a once-in-a-lifetime trip, I elected to use my M1 for the Presidents 100 and National Individual matches. I had never shot beyond 200 yards before, and using the windage and elevation tables (ie: theoretical!!!) for standard match loads, I managed a 227-0x (out of 300) aggregate for the two matches. Another click or two left windage and I'd had several X's also. FUN FUN FUN!!!


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## Patriot (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

I think FM's Megalennium with soft start switch is ideal for the 1185. It gets rid of all the instaflash problems and gives the hot rod a tame side which is a big bonus. Of course the 3 x 17670's still work too you'll just have to watch your voltages. I've found that 4.15V won't flash in my current M6 that's set-up that way. Could be different in another body, head, tail cap though due to differences in resistance. 

I'm like you and really dig the Millenium series lights. It seems that they started etching them as Guardians around serial number 6000. Here is thread that discusses the different generations/variations:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183647


There are a number of adjustments, tweaks, sizing's and measured torque-ings that you can do to the M1 without rendering it as modified or other than completely stock. Most M1's straight out of the CMP program will rarely consistently shoot under 2" @ 100 and most shoot 3-4" groups with match ammo. If the barrel is good they'll usually shoot close to two inches consistently with "stock legal tweaks." Beyond that requires match barrels, bedding, and select gas tube and or op rod piston, which are normally worn oval after several thousand rounds. Too bad you're not in state because I'd love to help ya. If you ever happen to drive to AZ bring one with you. We can go through the basics in a few hours.


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## bluecrow76 (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

Ahh... big flashlights and big guns... what a wonderful thread!


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## Solscud007 (Mar 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

You are missing the Tactical sea-cucumber eviscerator version.


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## Patriot (Apr 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

I've never seen that combo before or at least I don't remember seeing it.

Very cool. I like how that head has Surefire etched on the side like that. Neat!


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## Solscud007 (Apr 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****



Patriot said:


> I've never seen that combo before or at least I don't remember seeing it.
> 
> Very cool. I like how that head has Surefire etched on the side like that. Neat!




It is a special KL6, obviously with an extreme crenelated strike bezel. It is from my L6 Porcupine.


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## Illum (Apr 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****



Solscud007 said:


> You are missing the Tactical sea-cucumber eviscerator version.



:green:........:twothumbs

lets see the M6 head on the porky body...or is that not possible?


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## Solscud007 (Apr 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

it is possible.

Here you go. I made this when Curse sold a Turbo Porky on the marketplace. I cant afford it so I squint and use this. It looks like a turbo Porky. 

My poorman's Turbo L6 Porcupine.


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## Patriot (Apr 2, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

That's a new one to me Solscud. I've never seen that combo ever!


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## Tim W (Apr 14, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

Well, after playing with this beast for a couple weeks now, all I can do is wonder WHY I didn't get one sooner!!!!!

Been running it with the LF HO-M6R and 3X17670. I've had older cars that didn't have this kind of output from the headlights!! (Maybe a _slight_ exaggeration, but not by much)

LOVE IT!!!!!

Thanks again to everyone for the comments and advice.

Tim


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## mquattrone (Apr 19, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

That's wild looking, I love it! 

How does one go about making such a thing? A CNC machine?

Michael


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## Patriot (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****



mquattrone said:


> That's wild looking, I love it!
> 
> How does one go about making such a thing? A CNC machine?
> 
> Michael





It's part of a factory light, the Surefire Porcupine. The head with the three long strike protrusions is pictured on the previous page. They're interchangeable with other M-series lights and the owners were assembling their own creative configurations, a term known as Surefire Lego's.


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## Tim W (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

OK, Fivemega is doing another run of bi pin holders, so I've got one of those on order, and I've ordered some 1185's from Litho.

The questions I have now is what kind of life span will I get out of these bulbs on a 3x17670 battery set-up?

Battery life I'm guessing will be in the neighborhood of 25 minutes?

Thanks,
Tim


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## Illum (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

**


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## DM51 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****



Illum said:


> 1185 will draw 3.3 amps at 10.8V so....
> using AW 17670s it would be
> 1.6/3.3 = ~48 minutes at max, which may severely damage your batteries due to overdischarge.
> 
> ...


Those calculations are incorrect. 1600mAh / 3300mA = 0.48 hours = 29 mins.

If you limit yourself to using 80% of the battery capacity, that gives you a working run-time of 23 minutes. It is best not to discharge Li-Ion cells right down to empty, so the 80% guideline is a sensible one.


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## bigchelis (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****



DM51 said:


> Those calculations are incorrect. 1600mAh / 3300mA = 0.48 hours = 29 mins.
> 
> If you limit yourself to using 80% of the battery capacity, that gives you a working run-time of 23 minutes. It is best not to discharge Li-Ion cells right down to empty, so the 80% guideline is a sensible one.


 

I will be using the same exact set-up. The wa1185 in my M6 with 3 17670 AW black protected cells.

Since my cells are protected will they even light up with the high current?


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## DM51 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

Yes, AW protected 17670 cells will light up on the first click. Some other brands require multi-clicks, or don't even work at all.


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## Illum (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****



DM51 said:


> Those calculations are incorrect. 1600mAh / 3300mA = 0.48 hours = 29 mins.
> 
> If you limit yourself to using 80% of the battery capacity, that gives you a working run-time of 23 minutes. It is best not to discharge Li-Ion cells right down to empty, so the 80% guideline is a sensible one.



I knew I made something wrong cuz I keep going back to it...
you'd think the 8th time describing runtimes to people by battery capacity I would've got it right the first time by now


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## DM51 (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****

It's easily done - I've made the mistake myself before when tired. You just have to remember the figure is in hours, so you have to multiply by 60 to get minutes. When you're tired or in a rush, you can forget that 0.48 hours is just under half an hour, not 48 minutes.


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## Patriot (Apr 21, 2009)

*Re: Surefire M6 on the way *** Photos added!! ****



DM51 said:


> When you're tired or in a rush, you can forget that 0.48 hours is just under half an hour, not 48 minutes.




I'm glad I'm not the only one who posts late at night or early morning and makes that mistake. Some of my stupidest comments are made right before bedtime...lol.

I did a run-time test on both AW cells, and non-protected 17670's. Both cells did about they same and gave two 9-10 minute runs of good light with a 10 min cool down in between. I could have squeezed more run out of the AW's at that point but the beam is doesn't have the nice white color that it does on fresh cells and it seems pointless to push the cells in a "non-emergency." In many ways the run-time is similar to the M6 HOLA on primaries, so I treat it as a special application light. FM's 18650 body really takes the M6 1185 concept to the next level.


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## Tim W (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks for the info, again, guys.

For the use I have for this set-up during the summer months, 15-20 minutes on a set of batteries is more than adequate.

Bulbs should be here any day, but it will probably be the middle of next month before I get my bi pin adapter from Fivemega.

Tim


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## DFLO281 (Apr 30, 2009)

Cause of this post: I've joined CPF, And ordered a Fivemega 3x17670 M6 holder, LF HO-M6R,3 AW 17670 Protected battiers and a Shoshine Battery Charger. I cant let the Girl know, She is already mad at my gun buying.


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## Tim W (May 1, 2009)

DFLO281 said:


> Cause of this post: I've joined CPF, And ordered a Fivemega 3x17670 M6 holder, LF HO-M6R,3 AW 17670 Protected battiers and a Shoshine Battery Charger. I cant let the Girl know, She is already mad at my gun buying.




Welcome to CPF!!

I've had the second problem for a long time now, and am rapidly catching up in the flashlight department.

It gets a little better when you've accumulated enough items that she no longer realizes that something is new!!

Tim


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## Tim W (May 1, 2009)

DFLO281 said:


> Cause of this post: I've joined CPF, And ordered a Fivemega 3x17670 M6 holder, LF HO-M6R,3 AW 17670 Protected battiers and a Shoshine Battery Charger. I cant let the Girl know, She is already mad at my gun buying.




Don't forget to wander over the the B/S/T section and snag a bi pin adaptor from Fivemega and a 3 level switch with soft start from AW!!

Your wallet will *REALLY * appreciate you finding this place!!


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