# Looking for Noob LED emitter FAQ



## srmd22 (Oct 23, 2009)

I did a search and found one thread with a few basic definitions of some of the different emitters from the last few years, but the latest crees (the q5, the R2, the X-E and the new X-G) were not mentioned. 

Is there some sort of tutorial explaining the differences in properties such as efficiency and which are single emitters versus multi, or whatever-- I obviously don't know what I am talking about, which is why I need some sort of intro/guide.

I figure this is probably around, but for some reason I'm having trouble finding a good summary in my search efforts.


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## csshih (Oct 23, 2009)

nope.. there never has really been a summary.
hold on a minute, I'll do a quick writeup
edit: added some quotes, please let me know if you don't want to be quote 

Popular emitters used in flashlights:

Cree:
Single Die:
XR-E: large package size (R2 is highest flux bin)
XP-E: Tiny package size in comparison to the XR-E, same die size, though (R2 is highest flux bin)
XP-G: Same package size as the XP-E, larger die, brighter (S2 is highest flux bin, though not released yet. R5 is current released top bin) 
Multiple Die:
MC-E: 4 die LED. similar package size to the XR-E <-- warm tints offered

SSC:
P4: similar size to the Cree XR-E, phosphor is more scattered (can someone give more info here?


fallingwater said:


> Actually, the package is quite different from that of the XR-E. It's almost the same as the older Luxeons, but not as tall; they can (and should) be put in place of all Luxeons where possible, but a heat-conductive spacer is needed so the light reflects well.
> With some ingenuity, P4s can be swapped in place of XR-Es, but it should only be done on lights whose reflectors are meant for lambertian LEDs and don't give a good beam with XR-Es.


P7: 4 die LED -- quite a bit bigger than the MC-E (came out before the MC-E,though) <-- no warm tints offered

Nichia:
5mm (T1 3/4) -- commonly referred as DS/GS nichias (currently the brightest relatively low current (20mA) emitters you can get in this package)

Osram:
Single Die:
Golden Dragon: surface mount, no dome like the cree XR-E or SSC P4. similar brightness levels to those.
Diamond Dragon: rather inneficient, but can be driven at very high currents, IIRC.

Multiple Die
Ostar: 6 Dies Very high forward voltage.. probably not meant for flashlight applications.

Philips LumiLEDs:
Lux I: Obsolete "1 watt" LED
Lux III: Obsolete "3 watt" LED
Lux V: Obsolete "5 watt" LED.(4 die)


fallingwater said:


> IIIs also lasted longer, even when overdriven.



luxeon K2: philips current offering, similar to the Cree XR-E, SSC P4, but can be driven to higher drive currents (
Rebel: came out before the XP-E, small package size, used in LED maglites.


fallingwater said:


> Came out in several models, but only got interesting with the R80 and R100. R100 is brighter, but due to a manufacturing defect many dies would delaminate and ruin the emitter. It got recalled and now can't be found anywhere. The R80 is free from this defect, but has long lost the efficiency race.





lolzertank said:


> The recall was in 2007. Rebel 100s are commonly available now; I've ordered 11 from Future this year.





[email protected] said:


> the K2 has been dropped in favour of the rebel.




Luminous:
SST-50: relatively small package, but huge die size. similar to the MC-E, but all 4 dies are fused into 1 large die. 1250 max lumens @ 5A
SST-90: larger package, and an even larger die size. 2250 max lumens @ 9A
CSM/CBM-360-W: architectural lighting LEDs. I predict at least someone will try to put these into a light with 6000 max lumens. ([email protected] (as opposed to ~3.2-3.8V Vf) CSM has a dome, CBM does not.


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## csshih (Oct 23, 2009)

finished the quick writeup..anyone want to help with errors and add more info?


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## [email protected] (Oct 24, 2009)

Almost single led here is offered in a warm/neutral tint. Also the K2 has been dropped in favour of the rebel. Almost every company here also has weird smd leds that aren't as popular as the ones Craig listed. Such as the cree mx6 and the nichia 183. The lux v is a 4 die led that's very useful as a hand warmer.


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## Fallingwater (Oct 24, 2009)

csshih said:


> SSC:
> P4: similar package to the Cree XR-E, phosphor is more scattered (can someone give more info here?


Actually, the package is quite different from that of the XR-E. It's almost the same as the older Luxeons, but not as tall; they can (and should) be put in place of all Luxeons where possible, but a heat-conductive spacer is needed so the light reflects well.
With some ingenuity, P4s can be swapped in place of XR-Es, but it should only be done on lights whose reflectors are meant for lambertian LEDs and don't give a good beam with XR-Es.



> Lux V: Obsolete "5 watt" LED. (this one did not catch on well as an overdriven Lux III would be brighter IIRC)


IIIs also lasted longer, even when overdriven.



> Rebel: came out before the XP-E, small package size, used in LED maglites.


Came out in several models, but only got interesting with the R80 and R100. R100 is brighter, but due to a manufacturing defect many dies would delaminate and ruin the emitter. It got recalled and now can't be found anywhere. The R80 is free from this defect, but has long lost the efficiency race.


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## srmd22 (Oct 24, 2009)

That is really impressive, csshih, thanks. It give us noobs a great reference point for this confusing technology.

I have a question or two. Firstly, it seems that the most popular emitters are the Cree XR-E and MC-E, and the SSC P7. Is that because these are the "best" in there class? I know the Cree XP-G is the newest, and most efficient, and I understand that this is potentially the new "king" of single die emitters? 

Haven't seen much mention of the P4-- is it used in any popular lights, that you might see at some of the well-known vendors, such 4sevens or battery junction, or any of the other popular internet sites? Same question for the Lumenous brand? 

Also, is a smaller die considered an advantage over a larger one (such as with computer chips)? Or is it irrelevant?

Thanks again for laying all that out. It really helps guys like me to get a foothold in the confusing world of LED terminology.


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## lolzertank (Oct 25, 2009)

Fallingwater said:


> Came out in several models, but only got interesting with the R80 and R100. R100 is brighter, but due to a manufacturing defect many dies would delaminate and ruin the emitter. It got recalled and now can't be found anywhere. The R80 is free from this defect, but has long lost the efficiency race.



The recall was in 2007. Rebel 100s are commonly available now; I've ordered 11 from Future this year.


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## csshih (Oct 25, 2009)

srmd22 said:


> That is really impressive, csshih, thanks. It give us noobs a great reference point for this confusing technology.
> glad to help. :grouphug: I just hope I'm not writing anything wrong here.
> 
> I have a question or two. Firstly, it seems that the most popular emitters are the Cree XR-E and MC-E, and the SSC P7. Is that because these are the "best" in there class? I know the Cree XP-G is the newest, and most efficient, and I understand that this is potentially the new "king" of single die emitters?
> ...


:huh:


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