# Plasma Lightbulb



## lasersandlights (Aug 30, 2009)

How can I make a flashlight with this bulb from Luxim?
http://www.lifi.com/dynamic/display.php/71
20,800 lumens, 28V, 9.5A, I think that 10 18650s would be able to give it 15 minutes of run time, but I'd probably also need to install a fan.


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## 65535 (Aug 31, 2009)

.....


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## The Dane (Aug 31, 2009)

65535 said:


> I don't think you can, it's pretty specifically designed for 110V operation, and it's big.



Errrrrr NO!
It's 28V DC and the head is 4" diam and 3" long. The ballast is 7½x3.3x1.3".

The main problem is a decent reflector, because it's all flood.


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## ^Gurthang (Aug 31, 2009)

Yep, 28 Vf @ 9.5A. So a 8X 26500 pack could drive it. Just need to machine a body tube & adapter to mount the bulb. Course it would deserve to be named after one of those historic big guns like "Big Berth".

^G


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## LEDninja (Aug 31, 2009)

lasersandlights said:


> I think that 10 18650s would be able to give it 15 minutes of run time


If you are thinking regular Li-ions NO.
You are discharging the cells at 4C or double the safe limit. PLease read the post in the following link carefully:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/235164
A man in BC died last week because his laptop caught fire while he was asleep.

Emoli or IMR cells such as ^Gurthang's 8X 26500 pack can probably handle the current but can the rest of your build?
9.5A is roughly 3/4 the amps of an electric frying pan so your wires should be the same gauge as are the connectors.
The bulb is in the 250-300W range so metal stands, shades; ceramic bulb holder etc (no plastic).

And do think what 20,000 lumens close up can do to your eyes.


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## MrNaz (Aug 31, 2009)

LEDninja said:


> If you are thinking regular Li-ions NO.
> You are discharging the cells at 4C or double the safe limit. PLease read the post in the following link carefully:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/235164
> A man in BC died last week because his laptop caught fire while he was asleep.
> ...



Yes, I think we've just discovered that there is such a thing as "too bright".

The sheer power dissipation needs and brightness of this thing should give you cause for pause. A 20,000 lumen unfocused emitter *will* permamently damage your vision after just a few seconds if looked at from a few feet away. Focus it and you have a visual death ray.

I highly recommend leaving this project on the "fanciful but impractical" list, and shelve it. There is no practical use for a portable 20k lumen lamp that runs for 15 mintues.

Stick to LEDs. They're more fun.


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## Linger (Aug 31, 2009)

+1 to the above.

But did anyone notice the 95 CRI! wow...


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## karlthev (Aug 31, 2009)

+2. I have several of the "Big Guns" HIDs and Hotwires and really don't use them much for practical applications rather as party entertainment. 



Karl


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## bshanahan14rulz (Aug 31, 2009)

hah, this plus a gigantic aspheric lens = moon illumination 

If you are the safest person in the world, make it a thrower flashlight, but seriously, 20k lumens is a lot.


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## StarHalo (Aug 31, 2009)

This call for moderation is very unflashaholic-like; if you've seen a rural HID area/security light, you've seen a 20,000+ lumen bulb. It's obviously not something you'd want to look into at close range, but no one looks into their novelty hotwires anyway..

I'd definitely go with a lantern/top-handle style format, and as reflectors go, you'll need something that's size-wise on par with a commercial salad bowl, i.e. whatever is the largest you can find/improvise. If it works out, it'd be like carrying your own stadium light..


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## VidPro (Aug 31, 2009)

for a power source you might think of using a warp coil.
or a pair of these at 10lbs each , regulated 
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5062
*LiFePO4 26650 Battery: 38.4V 13.6Ah ( 522.24 Wh, 40A rate, Ebike terminal) with PCM for E-bike *


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## Oznog (Aug 31, 2009)

Wow, anybody know more about them? All I see are press release propaganda. Is it actually manufactured? Is it purchaseable?

This appears really different than anything else, I'd like to know more. Does the BULB itself take 28V, or is there a ballast that converts 28v to some higher voltage? 

I don't even see terminals there... did they leave them off the spec sheet for artistic purposes? Is it microwave-pumped or something?

http://www.jimonlight.com/2008/11/14/lifi-lumens-per-watt-of-the-future/
OK, yeah, it's got a major complex ballast because it's microwave-pumped. The ballast could be made to any voltage, though.


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## VidPro (Aug 31, 2009)

there is a good size ballast , check the data sheet, http://www.lifi.com/dynamic/pdfs/ProductBulletinLIFI-STA-40Series-19June2009.pdf
it has the size specs at the lower part of it.

it is sorta like microwave , radio waves?
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/luxim-plasma-lifi-light-bulb-led-cfl.php

the spectrum is amasing if it actually can do that.


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## Oznog (Aug 31, 2009)

VidPro said:


> it is sorta like microwave , radio waves?
> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/luxim-plasma-lifi-light-bulb-led-cfl.php
> 
> the spectrum is amasing if it actually can do that.



Microwaves are a form of radio waves. And it's exactly both.

I wonder if their 120 lumens/watt includes the ballast losses, or is based on microwave energy going to the bulb vs light output. See LEDs often ignore that ugly question, they can lose a LOT in the driver. Looking up consumer microwave ovens, they're only like 65% efficient. So 120 lumens/W might be 78 lumens/W from the wall if they didn't include that loss (but we don't know).

Oh, wait, the spec sheet DOES kinda let that slip. Says 20800 lumens, nominal 267W in. That comes to... 77.9 lumens/W! Wow, my guesstimate hit that one right on the nose.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Aug 31, 2009)

I still say make it a laser. find/make a big aspheric and have it focusable out to a 1000 yards. Just imagine: this baby can burn trashbags at 1000 yards. It will also ignite the leaves therein :devil:


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## VidPro (Aug 31, 2009)

Oznog said:


> Oh, wait, the spec sheet DOES kinda let that slip. Says 20800 lumens, nominal 267W in. That comes to... 77.9 lumens/W! Wow, my guesstimate hit that one right on the nose.



wow, i was wondering HOW they got that many LPW when many of the lumens on the design are lost, in the "back"


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## lasersandlights (Aug 31, 2009)

So it is possible to build one of these? What battery source would be recommended? I am only looking for 5 minutes per charge.


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## VidPro (Aug 31, 2009)

would all the watts of waves (of any kind for that matter) , enough to excite a bulb into plasma be able to be held close to ones person? or were you planning on mounting it in the back of a truck tank light style?


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## 65535 (Aug 31, 2009)

lasersandlights said:


> So it is possible to build one of these? What battery source would be recommended? I am only looking for 5 minutes per charge.


Batteries don't last at 5 minute discharge, only acceptable cells would be A123 systems.


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## lasersandlights (Aug 31, 2009)

VidPro said:


> would all the watts of waves (of any kind for that matter) , enough to excite a bulb into plasma be able to be held close to ones person? or were you planning on mounting it in the back of a truck tank light style?



Yes, it would be a handheld unit.


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## VidPro (Aug 31, 2009)

then why bother with the little one 
when you can have the 1400W one, enough light to light an entier greenhouse the size of a hangar.

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/atta...icrowave-sulfur-plasma-lamp-sulfur-lamp-1.jpg

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/atta...icrowave-sulfur-plasma-lamp-sulfur-lamp-4.jpg

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/atta...icrowave-sulfur-plasma-lamp-sulfur-lamp-3.jpg

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/atta...icrowave-sulfur-plasma-lamp-sulfur-lamp-2.jpg

420 hmm what could they possibly be using it for 

i dont think you could use this to start a BBQ fire, as vaporising the metal would be a bit of a problem.


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## VidPro (Aug 31, 2009)

more stuff
_Peak temperature on the outer wall of the quartz bulb with airflow across it measures 800°C at typical operating power. Without airflow, this temperature measures up to 900°C in 55°C ambient conditions. Repeated testing at these temperatures has shown that there is adequate temperature margin for bulb reliability......For reliability safety factor, LUXIM requires that the bulb surface operate at less than 900°C in the maximum ambient temperature. There are no complicated upper and lower temperature limits at various location of the bulb as in the UHP bulb; Luxim recommends running the bulb wall temperature as cool as possible._

_-------------------------------------_


_here is another company making them for projectors_
_http://www.ceravision.com/projection.php_

http://www.ceravision.com/pdf/P016_EUAD_OCT08.pdf
the automotive version


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## snarfer (Sep 1, 2009)

About six months ago I spent a lot of energy trying to get a "development kit" from this company. I was always getting shunted off into some voicemail and nobody ever returned my calls or emails.

I finally decided that the big fan-cooled ballast made this whole thing a non-starter anyway. 



> There is no practical use for a portable 20k lumen lamp that runs for 15 mintues.



On the contrary, there a lot of practical uses for such a light, but it would certainly be better if it would run all day. An 800 watt HMI light running on batteries is not uncommon at all on a film set, and that's putting out more like 50,000 lumens.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Sep 1, 2009)

do lithium polymer batteries have any electrical advantages, or do they have a lower discharge rate since they don't have liquid in them?


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## Oznog (Sep 1, 2009)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> do lithium polymer batteries have any electrical advantages, or do they have a lower discharge rate since they don't have liquid in them?


Li-ion is not "liquid" per se, not like lead-acid.

LiPo has discharge limits as well. It's not remarkably different than li-ion, IIRC, although it's hard to compare since they don't usually make them in the same package.

LiFePO4 is the game-changer. A123 is a type of LiFePO4. Note that other types of LiFePO4 are NOT as astronomically high of a charge/discharge as A123, but even the lowest discharge rating is still significantly higher than the best Li-ion on a C-rating basis.

This plasma bulb thing sounds like unobtanium, if not vaporware. Lots of companies like to get techie articles written about them and their new product which you can buy tomorrow, which never actually gets produced past the prototype stage.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Sep 2, 2009)

So A123, 2 of these stacked would be about the same size as an 18650, correct? So if I jury-rigged two A123 to run in parallel in my single 18650 flashlight and if that flashlight happened to be multi-emitter, say a balanced paralleled mc-e or a P7, I could get at least the spec'd 2.8A to the LED? at least, better than a single china-brand 18650? 
I'm just starting to get a grasp on different Li-Ion chems


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## snarfer (Sep 2, 2009)

> This plasma bulb thing sounds like unobtanium, if not vaporware. Lots of companies like to get techie articles written about them and their new product which you can buy tomorrow, which never actually gets produced past the prototype stage.



It is real, and has been used in a number of big screen televisions already. I also tried to buy it as a spare part for the TV. Evidently they had a very high failure rate though and you can't buy the part by itself. The TV has to be taken back to the factory for backlight replacement. 

After all that effort I decided that it just wasn't worth it. LEDs are far better.


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## Starlight (Sep 2, 2009)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> So A123, 2 of these stacked would be about the same size as an 18650, correct? So if I jury-rigged two A123 to run in parallel in my single 18650 flashlight and if that flashlight happened to be multi-emitter, say a balanced paralleled mc-e or a P7, I could get at least the spec'd 2.8A to the LED? at least, better than a single china-brand 18650?
> I'm just starting to get a grasp on different Li-Ion chems



No, the A123's are 18650 sized. You are thinking of cr123's.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Sep 3, 2009)

Well shoot, that's even better! Ok, Gotta stop threadjacking. off to search!

sorry op!


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## Al Combs (Sep 3, 2009)

It's not really a hijack since the OP asked about this as well. A123 Systems is the company. The first link of this thread shows both 18650 & 26650 Dewalt packs. The how to build a pack thread (follow 1st link) shows how to wire the balancing taps for a pack. The second link shows the disassembly of a 36 volt 26650 pack. This is a cheap source for a pair of A123 18650's. I hear that Lux is unfortunately no longer in the battery business.

A123's are OEM only. If you want to use them, you have to tear apart a finished pack meant for something else. And then there's the charger. The pdf specs from A123's 26650 link say you need a 3.6 volt CC/CV charger. Which means you need a good hobby charger. You would need a good hobby charger anyway for the balancing taps in an 8 cell pack. Something like the BC8DP instead of the more common BC6 has a built in balancer for 8 cells and plugs into the wall. Many hobby chargers only run off your car's cigarette lighter outlet. Or you have to spend an extra 30 or 40 bucks for a high power 12 volt AC adapter.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Sep 3, 2009)

Hmm, found a site selling single 18650 for 9.5+shipping but I don't know if it supplies enough voltage for white LED. I'm guessing if you found a white with 3.2 Vf, it may work for about half the capacity of the cell, but around 5A V drops to about 3.1V after only a few hundred mAh's worth of discharging.

Still, very amazing batteries, these!


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## VidPro (Sep 4, 2009)

snarfer said:


> It is real, and has been used in a number of big screen televisions already. I also tried to buy it as a spare part for the TV. Evidently they had a very high failure rate though and you can't buy the part by itself. The TV has to be taken back to the factory for backlight replacement.
> 
> After all that effort I decided that it just wasn't worth it. LEDs are far better.


 
from what i read, it seems that the LIFE of the balast and/or the magnatron , is the "issue" , so while they put big numbers in for the life ratings, all the stuff that is doing the work, and wasting power , is what is not living time.

if i turned on my microwave for as long as the tv is on, i could guess that is about how long a microwave tv would end up lasting.
a microwave flashlight might not be on for as long as the tvs would be, mabey they should provide us with some samples , and we can put the technology to some INSANE uses  i am sure somone out there wouldnt mind a few hundred hours of happiness


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## lasersandlights (Sep 4, 2009)

Thanks guys! Didn't know that it would be so helpful. What about the reflector, any ideas about that?


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## jar3ds (Sep 4, 2009)

if someone does this (makes a torch w/ this)... they will be a lumen god


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## Yorkshire Pudding (Sep 6, 2009)

lasersandlights said:


> So it is possible to build one of these? What battery source would be recommended? I am only looking for 5 minutes per charge.


 
Two 12volt car batteries wired in series, fitted with wheels and a towing bar!

John L


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## lasersandlights (Sep 15, 2009)

I just got the bulbs in, and can now install everything, I have a design in mind, and have attached it.

I am going to make the reflector have the same result as some spotlights you can buy packaged with the reflector. That is what I will base my reflector design on.

For the battery I am considering a strap on fuel cell and then with a wire to the actual unit.

Can anyone confirm what type of batteries would be optimal?


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## Aircraft800 (Sep 15, 2009)

Darn, I'd sure like to see that picture. Broken link for me.


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## lasersandlights (Sep 15, 2009)

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1010998/spot.png


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## lasersandlights (Apr 3, 2010)

The Plasma light is completed
http://rapidshare.com/files/371466311/pl04032010.zip.html


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## StarHalo (Apr 3, 2010)

Your link has already reached the max number of downloads. How about some quick pics/beamshots?


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## VidPro (Apr 3, 2010)

here is one more server for the video
http://www.bigandfree.com/12231614/pl04032010.zip.html
beware of adds, doesnt work with some net grabbers/downloaders


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## hopkins (Apr 3, 2010)

lasersandlights
Crazy good idea! Post a pic if you can please.

Side note -something I noted about those E-bike battery packs that was interesting. The pcm needs 30 mins to balance the cells. 
suggested as a possible battery for this plasma monster light

LiFePO4 26650 Battery: 38.4V 13.2Ah (506 Wh, 40A rate, Ebike terminal) with PCM for E-bike

*Must wait min of 30 minutes after battery is fully charged to allow the pcm to perform balance function on all the cells within the pack. *


http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...06wh40arateebiketerminalwithpcmfore-bike.aspx


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