# Idiot's ROP guide please



## Waspy (Apr 16, 2011)

Any links to a step-by-step guide to building a ROP from a 2D please?


----------



## srfreddy (Apr 16, 2011)

Lets see- you need a host- the Mag 2D.
If you're going for a cheap host:
Kaidomain MOP reflector, which I can't find right now.
Pack of 3834 Pelican Big-D bulbs
Two IMR 18650, and Allburger's Mag 2D->2x18650 kit
Put bulb in mag, put reflector in mag, put tube for 18650 in mag tube, put batteries in, put the modded tailcap in. 
I assume you are using lithium ions.


----------



## Waspy (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reply!

I have protected Li-ion 18650s

What is the benefit of IMRs?

Need to start looking for a reflector I guess.


----------



## NotRegulated (Apr 16, 2011)

Look this thread over by CPF member Conte. The pictures help alot.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?259443-Hotwire-How-To-The-ROP-and-the-Mag-11

Also read the ROP history by CPF member KevinL.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-years-and-still-going.&p=3552998#post3552998


----------



## saeckereier (Apr 16, 2011)

And try the search. All you have asked has been explained many times already. There has been a thread recently explaining where to find all the stuff nowadays. Depending on your LiIons, they might not be able to power up the Rop Hi bulb, because their protection circuit will trigger.


----------



## srfreddy (Apr 16, 2011)

And IMR run whiter-much more pleasing tint-wise.


----------



## Stephen Wallace (Apr 17, 2011)

I would also add a glass lens in to the equation - preferably a borofloat, UCL or otherwise optically coated lens.


----------



## think2x (Apr 17, 2011)

Any thoughts on using the *4sevens PROTECTED 26650's* for a 2D ROP Hi?


----------



## Justin Case (Apr 17, 2011)

The basic idea is to deliver about 7.2V (e.g., nominally 6xNiMH) or 7.4V (nominally 2xLi-ion) to either the Pelican 3854 (High or Low ROP) bulb or 3853 (High or Low ROP) bulb.

At the heat levels generated by the high ROP bulbs, you need a metal reflector and a glass window. Since one of the theoretical benefits of the ROP is easy switching between low and high ROP bulbs (reasonable output and long run time vs high output and shorter run time), you may as well use a metal reflector and glass window even for the low ROP bulbs.

As mentioned above, flashlightlens.com has UCL and borofloat glass for the Mag. Lighthound also sells UCL and borofloat Mag glass. Kaidomain sells plain glass and also has a relatively inexpensive medium orange peel (MOP) reflector (ProductId=1739, SKU S004023) that works well.

Typical battery configurations can be:

1. 6xNiMH (Eneloops are probably preferred) in a 6AA->2D holder. Fivemega and mdocod sell such holders.
2. 2x18650 or 2x26650, which requires a tail spring mod to fit the cells that are longer than 2xD cells. Allburger's tail spring kit is one mod approach. For both 18650 and 26650 cells, you need to take up the space between the cells and the Mag body since the cells are skinnier than a regular D cell. Typical spacers include rolled-up paper or cardboard, and PVC conduit.

Since this is a direct drive mod, parasitic resistance might be an issue. If you aren't driving the ROP at the current levels that are expected, you might consider implementing one or more of the popular Mag resistance fixes to the switch and/or tail spring.


----------



## think2x (Apr 17, 2011)

EASY Battery sleeves......

For 2x26650's use a piece of 1" schedule 40 PVC pipe cut 4 1/2" long.

For 2x18650's use a piece of 3/4" schedule 40 PVC pipe cut 4 1/2" long and ONE 3/4" coupling. Cut coupling in half and put each half on the ends of the sleeve. Total length should be 4 1/2" when finished (trim accordingly) There will be a little play (rattle) because the 18650 is slightly smaller than the I.D. of the pipe. This extra room can be taken up with rolled paper/card stock.

Side note: I use electrical tape around the outside of the sleeve to make it a tight fit inside the Mag body so it stays in place while changing batteries.


----------



## saeckereier (Apr 18, 2011)

Easier battery sleeve wrap some paper sheets around the cells. Fixate with sticky tape. Done. Holds up nicely. Can be customized very finely in thickness. Very happy with that solution. Mine is about 2/3 as long as both cells together.

Another remark: Running the ROP High bulb on LiIons is known to possibly cause melting of the solder at the lamps base, because they were simply not designed to run so hot. So you can't really run the Rop Hi continuously through the runtime. Or at least that's what I heard. In my case nothing happened. But it might be, that my Mag just has high enough resistance not to drive them too hard..


----------



## KiwiMark (Apr 19, 2011)

When using Li-ion cells I'd recommend AGAINST doing any resistance mods for the 3854 high bulb based ROP - that bulb will get very close to its limits if you get the resistance down to the minimum and you will blow bulbs more often. With IMR batteries + resistance mods you are likely to instaflash the bulb from fresh batteries.

The low bulb can take a higher voltage, so it is not so big a problem.


----------



## Waspy (Apr 19, 2011)

Is it OK to use protected 18650s with a ROP?


----------



## fivemega (Apr 19, 2011)

Waspy said:


> Is it OK to use protected 18650s with a ROP?


 
*Yes, it is OK to use pair of AW's protected 18650s with a ROP LO

To power up ROP HO with protected 18650s cells, you will need to connenct 2S/2P or use soft start.*


----------



## devon stalker (Apr 19, 2011)

Waspy said:


> Any links to a step-by-step guide to building a ROP from a 2D please?


 
hi there ! i am in the same boat as you ,just about to get the bits together for a ROP,
been given this link hope its of help
http://edcfeatures.blogspot.com/2007...lican-rop.html 
by tx101 on 
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?124626-Looking-for-help-with-a-maglite

also getting a 3d modded by him ,i am getting obsessed with all this then i was directed to here and my brain has gone into melt down:naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty: . by the way not far from you i am in east devon 

ATB 
D.S


----------



## Waspy (Apr 21, 2011)

Hi Devon Stalker,

Hey, I am in the middle of negotiating a site to park my caravan (trailer to non-Brits) in Somerset ATM, which must be very close to East Devon, I love Devon, it must be one of England's best counties, I spent my honeymoon in South Devon.

Anyway.......I have already ordered one of Jayrob's XM-L Maglite MODs, and I have just updated an old 2D Mag by using a 2D 18650 Battery Adaptor Kit and a TTS-3WP LED from www.thetorchsite.co.uk which is OK and a big (and cheap) improvement on the original incan.

I also intend to build a ROP, just for fun, and I am still researching.

I love Maglites, they were the only quality torch when I was younger, just a shame they never kept up with modern flashlight technology (for reasons only known to them). It baffles me how they could have such a huge market share, a household name, a great retail network and then just ignore every advancement in LED technology over the past twenty years. I really like Chinese products for their value, but it's great to have something with 'Made in the USA' (or Made in Britain of course)on it, it just seems better quality.

Anyway, can't wait until I get my Jayrob Mag, best current LED in the best host, with modern battery technology....just a shame Maglite couldn't make this kind of product themselves, what's stopping them?

Thanks for the links and good luck with your ROP build mate, let me know how you get on!


----------



## Waspy (Apr 21, 2011)

fivemega said:


> * you will need to connenct 2S/2P*


 
Not sure what that means


----------



## alpg88 (Apr 21, 2011)

Waspy said:


> Not sure what that means


 
2 series 2 paralell, in all 4 cells, but it wont fit into 2d, in fact you need to dualbore 3d, and use special holder, or contact plates, or light itself has to be moded for cell arrangment like that.


----------



## Waspy (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks alpg88.

So I need to buy IMR 18650s then?

(I like 18650s, I have a conversion kit for 2D to 2x 18650s)


----------



## alpg88 (Apr 21, 2011)

yea imr, or imr 26650 you'll get 2x runtime
, i have rop ho that runs off 2x26650, lighthound, and batteryspace sell them,


----------



## Waspy (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks, I'll check them out.


----------



## Chrontius (Apr 21, 2011)

May I be the first to suggest the Fivemega 6AA - 2D adapter with eneloop batteries? They're reliable, safe, and available at Costco nationwide. They don't require any real special handling, and an adequate charger comes included. An ideal charger is $40ish, and will work with most of your other household electronics, since most of that won't run on "standard" sized li-ion cells anyway. A $23 charger from BatteryJunction, a couple bucks of Radio Shack parts, and a soldering iron will give you a very refined pack charger.

My parts list:
Mag 2D
Kaidomain's "Golden Shorty" tailcap spring
Kaidomain's textured Mag reflector, cammed
Kai antireflective glass lens
Fivemega 6AA adapter
6x Eneloop low-self-discharge cells
Magic Lube teflon-bearing silicone lubricant on the threads

What I'd like to add:
Fivemega bifocal Mag reflector
Universal Smart Charger
FlashlightLens.com antireflective ultra-clear glass lens

There's really very little to the assembly, just unscrewing various components, removing the plastic parts, and substituting metal and glass. Most people won't need instructions on that (but if you do, PM me).


----------



## srfreddy (Apr 22, 2011)

But 6 eneloops give so much less "whiteness"...


----------



## alpg88 (Apr 22, 2011)

srfreddy said:


> But 6 eneloops give so much less "whiteness"...



compared to 2x li ion, yes , not to mention that 6aa holders are not available neither from FM nor from Modocod


----------



## Chrontius (Apr 22, 2011)

So what's the preferred ROP-hi power source these days? a pair of IMR-C cells? 

Also, do those require soft-start? I recall that large lithium-manganese cells generally needed one, and none of the turnkey softstarts work with anything but bi-pin bulbs. On top of that, I was one of the early adopters that tried Kai's lithium-cobalt D-cells and they ate themselves pretty quickly - they went from firing up the ROP-hi on the first click, to the hundred-and-fiftieth click, to not at all... and then they wouldn't fire up the ROP-lo either, so color me cynical.


----------



## KiwiMark (Apr 22, 2011)

Chrontius said:


> So what's the preferred ROP-hi power source these days? a pair of IMR-C cells?
> 
> Also, do those require soft-start? I recall that large lithium-manganese cells generally needed one, and none of the turnkey softstarts work with anything but bi-pin bulbs. On top of that, I was one of the early adopters that tried Kai's lithium-cobalt D-cells and they ate themselves pretty quickly - they went from firing up the ROP-hi on the first click, to the hundred-and-fiftieth click, to not at all... and then they wouldn't fire up the ROP-lo either, so color me cynical.


 
I'm still using KD 32650 cells - they work fine on my 3854-L, 3853-L & 3853-H bulbs and my AW soft start 64430 bulb. I have some inrush current limiters from Digi-Key here that I'll have to use to make my own soft start for my 3854-H bulb which currently works from my KD 32600 unprotected cells but not my KD 32650 protected cells.

I have been using these cells for over a year now and they work really well.


----------



## KiwiMark (Apr 23, 2011)

KiwiMark said:


> I have some inrush current limiters from Digi-Key here that I'll have to use to make my own soft start for my 3854-H bulb which currently works from my KD 32600 unprotected cells but not my KD 32650 protected cells.


 
My first attempt is a bit rough, but it works - my 3854-H bulb now powers up on the first try using protected cells.

It was a darned fiddly job getting that limiter soldered to the spring and leave room for it when the spring compresses and to make sure the current doesn't short-circuit passed the limiter.

For those interested it is this part:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/D...ink=hp_go_button&KeyWords=570-1077-ND&x=0&y=0

I'd like to try again and see if I can improve on my rough kludge job - maybe buy a copper washer and solder the wire to that and use some softer silicone insulated wire.


----------



## Justin Case (Apr 23, 2011)

KiwiMark, do you recall this thread of yours re: soft start? What aspect of your NTC job is "rough"?


----------



## Stephen Wallace (Apr 23, 2011)

Chrontius said:


> May I be the first to suggest the Fivemega 6AA - 2D adapter with eneloop batteries? They're reliable, safe, and available at Costco nationwide. They don't require any real special handling, and an adequate charger comes included. An ideal charger is $40ish, and will work with most of your other household electronics, since most of that won't run on "standard" sized li-ion cells anyway. A $23 charger from BatteryJunction, a couple bucks of Radio Shack parts, and a soldering iron will give you a very refined pack charger.
> 
> My parts list:
> Mag 2D
> ...


 


srfreddy said:


> But 6 eneloops give so much less "whiteness"...


 


alpg88 said:


> compared to 2x li ion, yes , not to mention that 6aa holders are not available neither from FM nor from Modocod


 
Just to add to what has been said, KD no longer have any Golden Shorty Mag springs. 

For that matter, and referring to the posts about the KD 32600/32650 Li-ion cells, KD no longer have the protected version of these batteries in stock either. Getting harder to find some of the things that we used to take for granted.


----------



## Chrontius (Apr 23, 2011)

That's a cryin' shame, Stephen. That Golden Shorty was basically what made everything fit in the tube. 

One of these days, I'll build the FET-based softstart into my mag switch, but today is not that day.


----------



## Stephen Wallace (Apr 23, 2011)

Yep, was definitely nice to be able to buy items such as these rather than having to modify a stock spring yourself.


----------



## KiwiMark (Apr 23, 2011)

Justin Case said:


> KiwiMark, do you recall this thread of yours re: soft start? What aspect of your NTC job is "rough"?


 
Yeah, it was after that thread that I bought some NTCs. I've had them sitting around for a while until I finally decided to hurry up and try one on my ROP high.

What part is rough?
Ummm, my soldering, the wire I used, the contact point for the battery, the insulator.
It really would be hard NOT to do a tidier job on an 2nd attempt!


----------



## keith p (May 17, 2011)

No classic ROP-LE? 

2C Mag
FiveMega Deep And Wide Tailcap
Metal Reflector
Bora Float Lens
ROP Bulb
Battery Sleeve
2X Protected 18650

I added a Download Metal Tower for giggles.

Double tap to start. Even with the new AW 18650 2900mAh you still need to double tap.


----------



## fivemega (May 18, 2011)

keith p said:


> No classic ROP-LE?
> 
> 2C Mag
> FiveMega Deep And Wide Tailcap
> ...


 
*Double tap is required for ROP 3854 HO bulb. LO bulb does not need double tap.
WA1111 has output of higher than LO bulb and lower than HO bulb and works fine with single click in same setup.*


----------



## Waspy (Jun 5, 2011)

Finally got my ROP built and very good it is too.

I bought these batts from a guy claiming they were:  
*IMR-18650 LiMN Lithium 3.7V 2400mah Rechargable Battery*

However that's not exactly what it says on the label. The ROP (Hi) works fine on them.

Am I OK with these cells?


----------



## srfreddy (Jun 6, 2011)

Waspy said:


> Finally got my ROP built and very good it is too.
> 
> I bought these batts from a guy claiming they were:
> *IMR-18650 LiMN Lithium 3.7V 2400mah Rechargable Battery*
> ...


 
Uh ohs.... did you get those on fleabay?


----------



## Waspy (Jun 7, 2011)

Yes I did. Is there a problem?

Item number: 110674134358


----------



## KiwiMark (Jun 7, 2011)

Waspy said:


> Is there a problem?


 
They will probably work fine, but ICR & IMR cells are different chemistry and unprotected IMR cells are much safer than unprotected ICR cells.

IMR = LiMn
ICR = LiCo

It's pretty rubbish to be sold IMR cells and then receive ICR cells - the seller should be more accurate in describing what he is selling.


----------



## scout24 (Jun 7, 2011)

NotRegulated, Conte and OP Waspy- Thanks for the postings! I really am fighting the urge to put together a ROP 2C... Really, I am...


----------



## Machete God (Jun 7, 2011)

Waspy said:


> Yes I did. Is there a problem?
> 
> Item number: 110674134358


I think you might have a problem.

First off, it appears that MNKE DOES NOT manufacture these cells. See their product page here. If these cells are indeed not manufactured by them, you've got to ask yourself whether you can trust the other claims the label is making.

Secondly, just because the cells appear to do the job it doesn't mean you haven't been scammed. The product page advertises 'IMR-18650 LiMnNi Li-Ion Battery 3.7V 2400mah Rechargable Battery' but you've been sold ICR-18650 LiCo cells instead.

Because these appear to be unprotected ICR cells, you should educate yourself of the dangers of associated with them. Personally, I'd only remotely trust these cells in single cell lights.

Anyway, I think you should contact the seller and get them to change the description. Get a refund while you're at it and dump these cells (or only use them in single cell lights). Failing that, you should trigger the Buyer Protection, just so that the sales can be stopped and nobody else unwittingly buys some and builds themselves a potential pipe bomb.


----------



## Waspy (Jun 8, 2011)

Thanks Machete God,

I have sent them a message.


----------

