# WA-1185 vs WA-1331



## LuxLuthor (Feb 2, 2006)

I got FM's 1300 Lumen Mag using WA-1185 & 9xAW's 17500 (3 stacks in parallel gives 11.1 V), and it's bright as hell.

Then I also got FM's 700 Lumen Mag using WA-1331 & 3xPila's 168s (in serial also gives 11.1 V), and to my untrained eye it seems just as bright.

Both lights have the same SMO reflector (with same bulb size opening), and Boro lens. I know the WA ratings on the two bulbs should give notably higher output and appearance to the 1185, so I'm puzzled how the 1331 could look just as bright. 

It is certainly close enough that several people I have asked think they are the same brightness, or maybe the 1331 slightly brighter. I was so blown away that I bought FM's last chrome 700L light he had.

Does anyone understand why they appear the same brightness?


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## MSI (Feb 2, 2006)

At what distance/conditions are you testing the lights?


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## ZeissOEM2 (Feb 2, 2006)

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## LuxLuthor (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, I am not doing this scientifically, but at 50, 100, 200, 300 meters I can tell no difference with side by side comparisons using fully charged lights as described above.

This is outside in a large, closed park which is all dark, with very distant city lighting giving practically no illumination.

Maybe at 400 meters it will start to show the 1185 setup as stronger, but I honestly expected the difference to be quite marked even at 300 meters, and it is not. Zeiss, I think it is likely the same 700L Red Mag setup you are using from FM that I see in your sig???


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## ZeissOEM2 (Feb 2, 2006)

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## MSI (Feb 2, 2006)

LuxLuthor, please measure the current from the lights. That way I can tell if there is something wrong with your FM1300L or with your eyes


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 2, 2006)

What is the best way (? device) to measure the current in the light? I measured each of the FM battery holders outside of the light with a typical battery tester, using the 12V setting and get nearly the same meter needle deflector reading with either of the above two setups....so I'm pretty sure they are both delivering 11.1 Volts.

I have two of the 1300 Lumen FM Mag85's, and they are both the same brightness side by side. I have spare 1331 & 1185 bulbs, and I can verify that the 700L model has the thinner filament 1331 bulb than the 1300L model with the thicker 1185 bulb.

I have now asked about 12 people to look at these two side by side at 50/100/200 meters, and EVERYONE agrees that they look the same. The 700L is using the new Pilas 168s (now called 600s model), and the 1300L is using 9x17500 AW batteries.


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## MSI (Feb 2, 2006)

Here is how to proceed:
1. Turn off tailcap (but leave the batteries inside the light)
2. Click the switch so it is in on position
3. Set your DMM (Digital Multi Meter) to DC current measurement, be sure that the red test probe is connected to the 10A/20A terminal.
4. Turn DMM on
5. Put black test probe to end of battery adapter, and apply some pressure so that it get good connection where the foremost adapter connects to the switch.
6. Put red test probe to the edge of the light where there is no anodizing, be sure to point the front of the light away from anyones face. I find it best to hold the light between/with my knees so it points toward the floor and I have my hands free for the test probes.
7. If everything is done properly the light should now light up and you should be able to read off the current from the DMM.

You should get ca. 3.3A for the WA1185 setup and 2A for the WA1331 setup.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 2, 2006)

I'll have to get a DMM at Radio Shack. Then I'll test it tomorrow.


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## nickz (Feb 2, 2006)

I am not having any luck doing my testing with this method on my GB MM. I have it set to A but I just can't get the light to turn on for some reason.....
*Edit* It's amazing what you find when you locate a bad fuse  . That is a feature I had never used before on my MM so I just figured it was good, but alas it was not. I was probing around like mad  .


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## MoonRise (Feb 3, 2006)

Pssst, Craftsman Club sale has a DMM for $10 after 10% club discount. Sale is good through tomorrow Feb 4.


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## Trashman (Feb 3, 2006)

At a far distance, you should be able to tell that the Mag85's beam width is greater. Although, anyway you look at it, that 700l is one smokin' light! It's pretty much the only incan I ever use. Without a doubt, one of my favorite lights. Seriously, everyone should have one of these.


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## pertinax (Feb 3, 2006)

I mixed up some 1185 and 1331 bulbs, and had to sort them by runtime. Same deal-- they look the same to me in brightness. I'd frosted them, and couldn't see any external difference for sorting them. Runtime did it; the DMM would work as well.

I like 'em both, but I worry that the 1331 bulbs aren't going to last very long at all.


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## thezman (Feb 3, 2006)

pertinax said:


> I mixed up some 1185 and 1331 bulbs, and had to sort them by runtime.


 
Which of the two ran the longest?


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## CLHC (Feb 3, 2006)

MSI said:


> Here is how to proceed:
> 
> 3. Set your DMM (Digital Multi Meter) to DC current measurement, be sure that the red test probe is connected to the 10A/20A terminal.
> 
> 6. Put red test probe to the edge of the light where there is no anodizing. . .



This is where I get lost. Very baffled am I. . . :thinking:


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## litho123 (Feb 3, 2006)

thezman said:


> Which of the two ran the longest?


 
The lower the amperage number the longer the runtime.
The 1185 draws 3.15a @ spec
The 1331 draws 1.93a @ spec
so the 1331 will run longer.

LuxLuthor, I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner to answer your question on this... To me, when we enter the realm of 20w - 30w lights, (1331 / 1111 / 1185 / 1166 / 1274 / etc.), the differences are there but harder to tell apart...
One will have a narrower hotspotbeam, one has a better color temp, one has a longer runtime, another has more sidespill, etc...

To my aged eyes, they both are similar in brightness, but the 1185 has more side spill. The hotspot seems to be bigger with the 1185 as well. The color temp seems to be whiter with the 1331, bet then again it may be the bulb lottery in play. (I'm learning a lot more with the custom run of halogen Carley 1499's)


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## thezman (Feb 3, 2006)

litho123,

Thanks.

Now I can say I learned something new today. 
I have all the parts coming for my first hotwire. I'm stoked.......:rock:


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 3, 2006)

MSI said:


> You should get ca. 3.3A for the WA1185 setup and 2A for the WA1331 setup.


OK, I got the DMM, and my readings were 3.36 & 2.04 as you suggested.

After reading the other posts, I am realizing the difference between these two bulbs is not what the first few posters represented. I also much prefer using the smaller size 700L with 3x168s Pilas to get what appears as the same amount of light.



litho123 said:


> To my aged eyes, they both are similar in brightness, but the 1185 has more side spill. The hotspot seems to be bigger with the 1185 as well. The color temp seems to be whiter with the 1331


I agree...especially with the side spill & hotspot size. At 25-50 feet I can transpose the 1331 beam on top of the 1185 focussed hotspot, and it slightly "overpowers" it. It's hard to tell if that is a function of brightness or whiteness.

If you look at the coiled filament, you can tell the 1185 because it has notably thicker coils. From a "beginner's mind" this makes me think the 1185 is capable of allowing more current without necessarily burning out faster than the 1331....similar to the thicker wire on a higher quality car battery jumper cable which does not heat up as much as a thinner one.

_Also, as a sidenote this $30 DMM from Radio Shack immediately on opening had a bad fuse which would not give a reading, but they thoughfully put a spare inside which I changed to and it worked. Nice QC, Radio Shack! I'll return it tomorrow._


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 3, 2006)

I measured the Voltage of the two setups which is also the same.

*The 700L using 1331 bulb*

*Each Pila 600s (168s) = 4.13V
FM in series 3 pack of 168s = 12.4V*
​*The 1300L using 1185 bulb*

*Each AW 17500 4.13V
FM in parallel 3 pack = 4.13V
3 in series FM 3 pack = 12.38V*
​


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## fivemega (Feb 5, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> I measured the Voltage of the two setups which is also the same.
> 
> *The 700L using 1331 bulb*
> 
> ...


You may need to measure voltage at the bulb *under load.*
I have tested both lights shooting to sky, foggy night time.
1300L shoots further with more overal light.
1331 has smaller fillament and can focus most of the light in smaller area.


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## lexina (Feb 5, 2006)

MSI said:


> Here is how to proceed:
> 1. Turn off tailcap (but leave the batteries inside the light)
> 2. Click the switch so it is in on position
> 3. Set your DMM (Digital Multi Meter) to DC current measurement, be sure that the red test probe is connected to the 10A/20A terminal.
> ...


 
:thanks: , MSI. I have been searching through the treads looking for clear instructions on how to measure current through a light.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 5, 2006)

FM, as far as I understand this method of measuring the current while keeping the batteries in the light with switch on, and making the circuit by touching the black lead to bottom of battery, and red lead to edge of flashlight tube (while bottom cap is off) gives the reading with the light shining. 

Making contact with the Digital MultiMeter makes the contact/circuit and the light comes on and gives the amp readings I posted above.

I tested the Volts with the batteries outside of the light.


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## fivemega (Feb 5, 2006)

What I meant was measuring *voltage* at the bulb.
Remove head and switch, run a wire from upper spring cup (top of spring) to out.
Reinstal the switch, bulb, battery adapters and tail cap but no head.
Make sure wire in not touching anything and connect red lead of volt meter to wire and black lead to bulb holder ring then switch the light on. 
Now you can read forwarded voltage *AT THE BULB*
You should read at least 10.5 volt. If not, switch has excessive resistance.


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## MSI (Feb 5, 2006)

If you know the current, then you know the voltage at the bulb as well, so there is no need to measure the voltage at the bulb, you only need to measure the current. However, you will not get the resitance of the tailcap and tailcap spring included if you measure the current. I don't know how much resistance those add.
Using the formula found here and using LuxLuthors numbers, you arrive at the following numbers:

1300L: V=10.80V -> 1233 bulb lumens

700L: V=10.62V -> 760 bulb lumens

You should have no problem telling the difference, but it may be the smaller filament of the 1331 that tricks you to think it is brighter than what it really is.


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## MSI (Feb 5, 2006)

CHC said:


> This is where I get lost. Very baffled am I. . . :thinking:


 
Unless you haven't noticed, a test probe has two ends. :nana:


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## MSI (Feb 5, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> At 25-50 feet I can transpose the 1331 beam on top of the 1185 focussed hotspot, and it slightly "overpowers" it. It's hard to tell if that is a function of brightness or whiteness.


 
Light is additive, what that means is that when you shine two lights at the same spot it will be brighter than if you only shine one light at the spot. That you can see the 1331 beam inside the 1185 beam therefore doesn't mean it overpowers it, it only means more light is shone onto the same spot.

Btw, measuring the resting voltage of batteries/battery adapters doesn't tell you anything about how the batteries will perform in the light, it will only tell you if you have connected the batteries correctly in the adapters and if there is a dead cell in there.


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## ZeissOEM2 (Feb 5, 2006)

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## LuxLuthor (Feb 5, 2006)

I'll wait for fog....but I'm still saying that 15 independent people looking at both lights one at a time, side by side, say at 50, 100, 200, 300 meters shining at various walls, trees, side of homes show no significant difference, with half choosing the 700L 1331 light as slightly brighter. That is pretty conclusive as far as I am concerned.

PS) They all want to know where they can get one of the 700L lights!


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