# WF 500 3 x Cree (2x18650) Torch !



## larry2 (Oct 12, 2007)

i saw the new Ultrafire 3x cree, 92x18650) LED torch for sale...
It looks quite interesting......
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7933
and i was wondering if anyone here has seen one and tried it out ?

There aren't any reviews up on the site yet though.....


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## chanamasala (Oct 16, 2007)

Anyone gets this yet? I'm quite tempted.

Is it a wall-o-light? Thrower? 

Super bright?


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## sims2k (Nov 7, 2007)

MX Power 3-Cree 3-Mode LED Flashlight (4xCR123A) at Dealextreme has been receiving good reviews in CPF that I am buying one. 

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5971

Cree based light throws more than the SSC ones.


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## TOOCOOL (Nov 7, 2007)

larry2 said:


> i saw the new Ultrafire 3x cree, 92x18650)



Thats a lot of batteries


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## DanielG (Nov 7, 2007)

TOOCOOL said:


> Thats a lot of batteries



92x18650

:laughing:


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## Mr_Light (Nov 7, 2007)

I ordered the 3 Cree upgrade module for my WF-500 
3-LED Cree 3-Mode Regulator + Reflector 2x18650 Module Set (3.6V-9V) $28.27 
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9358

I am sure this combination is the same as this light.
I will report on it when I get it.


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## divine (Nov 7, 2007)

TOOCOOL said:


> Thats a lot of batteries



The runtime must be fantastic!


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 7, 2007)

Mr_Light said:


> I ordered the 3 Cree upgrade module for my WF-500
> 3-LED Cree 3-Mode Regulator + Reflector 2x18650 Module Set (3.6V-9V) $28.27
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9358
> 
> ...


Please do as I want to upgrade mine.thanks


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 7, 2007)

divine said:


> The runtime must be fantastic!


Do they include battery chargers as well.


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## Whitelitee (Nov 7, 2007)

Does anyone think, that 3 cree drop in will fit in the 500lm G&P Scorpion Light? Its pretty much the same thing as the WF 500 torch.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 7, 2007)

I just received mine...but can only fit 90 batteries in it...lol. Ok, ok...seriously... I have it. I love it! It has a really nice aluminum reflector, and glass lens. I got it from DealExtreme, and at the time the ad said it had a twisty tail cap. It doesn't, mine has a reverse-clicky tail switch. 

The light is also three mode. Either one, two, or all three LEDs will light up... that's your low, medium, and high modes. It's very well focused and bright! The spillbeam is also really bright. 

Changing modes is the same as a Fenix, you just have to do a soft (half) press of the switch. If you turn the light off, then back on later, it comes on in the next mode from the mode last used. That's the one thing I don't like about the light. I would prefer it came on in the same mode every time, or the last mode used. In a way it's ok, because if I want it to come on in high for next time, I turn off the light while it's on medium. 

I'll post battery draw currents later, but from what I remember, it seems that it's running the LED's at at least 1000 mA each. I haven't done any runtime tests. 

Overall, I think it's a FANTASTIC deal!


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## aemkei77 (Nov 7, 2007)

Hi,

mine is still "waiting to get shipped" 
Are the leds direct driven? (Some say they are, others not)


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 7, 2007)

aemkei77 said:


> Hi,
> 
> mine is still "waiting to get shipped"
> Are the leds direct driven? (Some say they are, others not)


 
Nope, it has a driver circuit.


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## Brooks (Nov 7, 2007)

Whitelitee said:


> Does anyone think, that 3 cree drop in will fit in the 500lm G&P Scorpion Light? Its pretty much the same thing as the WF 500 torch.



I would like to know the answer to this as well.


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## aemkei77 (Nov 7, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> Nope, it has a driver circuit.



do you know for sure? coulf you make a picture of it or don't you want to take the light apart? would be great

(I have orderd 5 mode circuits because I don`t like the switching pattern and I hope they fit. )


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## saabluster (Nov 7, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> I got it from DealExtreme, and at the time the ad said it had a twisty tail cap. It doesn't, mine has a reverse-clicky tail switch.


Actually it is. It is a combo twisty and switch. Just leave the switch in the on position and unscrew the cap slightly.


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 8, 2007)

Brooks said:


> I would like to know the answer to this as well.


Do your measurements= these,reflector dia 52mm.And from edge of reflector to base of contact spring approx 52mm.If yes,it will fit.does that help.


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 8, 2007)

Slightly of topic,does anyone with a WF-500 use 3xRCR123 batteries.


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## Wassernaut (Nov 8, 2007)

larry2 said:


> i saw the new Ultrafire 3x cree, 92x18650) LED torch for sale... It looks quite interesting......
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7933
> and i was wondering if anyone here has seen one and tried it out ?
> ....


 

Does anyone know for sure if this will fit (drop in) a WF-500? I have an extra WF-500 just waiting for this if it'll fit. Thanks - Larry


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## saabluster (Nov 9, 2007)

Wassernaut said:


> Does anyone know for sure if this will fit (drop in) a WF-500? I have an extra WF-500 just waiting for this if it'll fit. Thanks - Larry


Yes it will. My led WF-500 as shipped from DX said Xenon on the side but its internals are that exact drop-in. I guess they are using up some of the WF-500 xenon bodies they have laying around.


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## Wassernaut (Nov 9, 2007)

Saabluster - Thanks brother, I'm off to order. - Larry


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## markone (Nov 10, 2007)

Hi folks,

just received mine today, and it worked great for ... few minutes, then 

Just the time to make some measurements, [email protected] & amps with 2x AW18650 (@ 4.0V each) : 

low : 4800 lux @ 1.1 A 
med : 10000 lux @ 1.75 A
high : 15000 lux @ 2.45 A

Current absorption was quite high, too high even if taking into account driver loss.

Ceiling bounce demonstrated higher lumen's count than MX power, someting like 30-40 % more.

So i'm really sad due to premature death :shakehead.

I have to contact DX.

I'm wondering if insane driver's current absorption was because driver was starting to burn or not.

If someone could take current measures, it could be interesting.

Also, if someone has suggestions about alternative drivers, it will be appreciated.

Hi to all, Marco.


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## Yps (Nov 10, 2007)

What runtime will this one probably have with 2x18650 ? 

/Magnus


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## markone (Nov 10, 2007)

Some failed driver pictures :













I do not see burned components, but just after the failure the flashlight head smelled bad.


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## kbrd (Nov 10, 2007)

How long was it on before it fried? Was it on high when it happened?


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 10, 2007)

markone said:


> low : 4800 lux @ 1.1 A
> med : 10000 lux @ 1.75 A
> high : 15000 lux @ 2.45 A
> 
> ...


 

I'm getting the same current measurements. Those values are normal, each emitter is being driven at 1000 mA plus. I'm getting the same lux meter reading on high, I haven't tested the other output levels. 

Check your switch retaining ring in the tailcap... if it loosens just a tiny bit (which mine has a habit of doing), the light won't work. Just tighten it with a pick or something similar. You mentioned that there was a burning smell... I guess that's not good news, but look at the switch anyway.

Also, check the voltage of each battery with your meter. If they're protected cells, the protection may have kicked in and will have to be reset by applying voltage to the battery. (place in charger for a couple seconds). 

Let us know!


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## markone (Nov 10, 2007)

kbrd said:


> How long was it on before it fried? Was it on high when it happened?



It worked a total of few minutes, but not in continuous way.

I was making a ceil bounce test against the MX power, at max level, when it suddenly did not recovery from the off state.

Just a little consideration about current absorption : 2.4 Amp @ 8V means about 19 Watts  , really too much even for three overdrived cree leds summed to normal driver power loss.

I think the driver was dissipating a great amount of energy, well over its capability.

I checked the CREEs and they are still good.

As already told, it could be very interesting to see current measures made by other owners of this flashlight.

Bye, Marco.


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## markone (Nov 10, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> I'm getting the same current measurements. Those values are normal, each emitter is being driven at 1000 mA plus.



Hi,

1 Amp for each emitter means about 4 Watt x 3 = 12 Watt of power provided to leds, while 2.4 Amp at battery side means about 19 Watt provided to the driver input.

So we have 7 Watt of power loss :duh2:, really too much.

I tried to supply the head with a lab bench power supply but it is definitely dead, while leds are still good.

Well, now i need a driver replacement


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## LEDite (Nov 10, 2007)

markone;

You can direct-drive the 3 LEDs from two batteries in parallel.

You will need a series resistor for each LED.

I may try it when I get my WF-500 (been ordered for a while).

Or this driver with three RCR123's (12V) should work with the LEDs in series:

http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=2982

Larry


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 10, 2007)

markone said:


> Hi,
> 
> 1 Amp for each emitter means about 4 Watt x 3 = 12 Watt of power provided to leds, while 2.4 Amp at battery side means about 19 Watt provided to the driver input.
> 
> ...


 

Yeah, I hear what you're saying... quite a bit of power loss. I get a smaller figure, but not by much. Under load, the batteries are 3.7V each, 7.4V total. 7.4V x 2.4A draw = 17.75 watts input, roughly. Each LED is probably driven at 3.5V and 1A, so that's 10.5 watts total for the 3 of them. This comes out to your figure of 7 watts power loss. 

But let's assume the LEDs are driven at 1200 mA... which may be the case. I'll have to measure at the LED to check. This would be 3.5V x 1.2A each, or a total of 12.6 watts. Now we have a 5 watt power loss. That comes out to a driver efficiency of 71%. I'm not sure what the typical driver efficiency is on other lights. :shrug: This still sounds like a big power loss.

Too bad about your driver.  I'm sure that DX will work with you to get it replaced.


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## markone (Nov 10, 2007)

LEDite said:


> -snip
> 
> Or this driver with three RCR123's (12V) should work with the LEDs in series:
> 
> ...



Hi Larry, thanks for the Kaido's driver suggestion, it is really cheap and flexible.

The only drawback is that the current is regulated to "only" 750mA, but it is possible to change a resistor to obtain higher current, as described in the related review. 

I'm considering to place an order for a couple of pieces right now, just to assure a backup solution.

About parallel battery solution, i do not see the way to obtain it with a flashlight that has a tube as battery holder.

Thanks, Marco.


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## markone (Nov 10, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> -snip
> 
> But let's assume the LEDs are driven at 1200 mA... which may be the case. I'll have to measure at the LED to check. This would be 3.5V x 1.2A each, or a total of 12.6 watts. Now we have a 5 watt power loss. That comes out to a driver efficiency of 71%. I'm not sure what the typical driver efficiency is on other lights. :shrug: This still sounds like a big power loss.
> 
> Too bad about your driver.  I'm sure that DX will work with you to get it replaced.



Hi FlashCrazy, 

71% efficiency is not a problem when you convert electrical powers of few watts, like all single led flashlights.

If the power rises and the efficiency remains low, you have to provide proper heatsinking system to active components that are involved in power regulation, because the absolute amount of Watts becomes important. 

If you take a look to mine regulator photos, you could see that no particular heatsink is present.

I do not see a way to dissipate 7 Watts for a regulator like this, without getting damaged.

Usually when you drive a cree led @ 1.2Amp you reach forwad voltages near 3.8-3.9V; making a row mat you obtain : 3.9*1.2 = 4.7W, that tripled makes 14.1W.

We are still losing five Watts.

The final data we need to know, is the actual LED driving current in a ... working flashlight 

Volunteers will be appreciated :kiss:

About DX support, i consider it good, but every solution i see it is matter of weeks :mecry:

Anyway, the amount of light that i saw was really good.

Marco.


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## kbrd (Nov 10, 2007)

Does anyone have one of these that is working properly? If so what are your impressions?


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## Monocrom (Nov 10, 2007)

Lighthound.com has it also. 

I might get one.... Since I have a pair of Ultrafire 18650s laying around. (Bought them before I heard that they don't work well in a Solarforce L600). 

I'm curious to see how this light stacks up against a Wolf-Eyes Thunder.


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## vetkaw63 (Nov 11, 2007)

LEDite said:


> markone;
> 
> You can direct-drive the 3 LEDs from two batteries in parallel.
> 
> ...




"Total input voltage must be 1-3V higher than output voltage"


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## markone (Nov 11, 2007)

vetkaw63 said:


> "Total input voltage must be 1-3V higher than output voltage"



Yes, this is a step down converter and this void the possibility to use 3 cells.

Also, to be noted that the WF-500 triple CREE regulator pcb diameter is 20mm, not 17mm like all drivers sold by Kaido & DX.

Instead, Shark driver could be a good choice, but it is quite expensive (25USD shipped).

Damn, when i saw 2.4 Amp on battery i had a bad thinking .... and i was right !

Let us see DX's answer to my problem.


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## Monocrom (Nov 11, 2007)

markone said:


> Damn, when i saw 2.4 Amp on battery i had a bad thinking .... and i was right !
> 
> Let us see DX's answer to my problem.


 
Please keep us informed.

I'm holding off getting this light until I see how the situation works itself out.


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## saabluster (Nov 11, 2007)

markone said:


> I do not see burned components, but just after the failure the flashlight head smelled bad.


 Just a warning for anyone who gets this. The retrofit design of this flashlight is FAR from ideal. I've posted a review of this verses the MX power on the DX site. One thing I failed to mention is that the positive node on the drop-in can move about(side to side) and touch the body of the light shorting it out. That may be what happened to you. Before you use it look down the barrel and confirm that the spring is centered on the barrel.


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## markone (Nov 11, 2007)

saabluster said:


> That may be what happened to you.



I know what you mean but i think that was not my case, because after the smell the head refused to turn on in many ways, also outside the flashlight.

If the spring makes contact with the tube, only the battery should be offended.

Anyway, the 2.4 Amp matter remains to be explained, because is the same power consumption of the WF-500 incand version, that i own.

Marco.


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## markone (Nov 11, 2007)

I just read on DX website about a customer with a triple led WF-500 that partially died after few minutes of work and another one that reports high current levels with very high temps. 

I conducted a deeper test on the survived emitters and i found out that on is quite dimmed vs the other two, @ 700mA & @ 1000 mA, where i remember well that before the failure they were well balanced.

So, i just asked to DX service for a full led/driver assembly replacement.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 11, 2007)

I checked the current and voltage at the emitters on mine today. Emitters are being driven at 850 mA, and the voltage at each emitter was 3.45 to 3.50

The drive current was lower than I expected... it looks like driver efficiency is even lower than the worst case calculated earlier. 

Mine is still working fine. I ran it on high for 5 minutes straight today, and last week I had it on high for 20 minutes straight. Hopefully it'll hold up. Given all the info learned, I'll think I'll limit the amount of time I use the light on high.

Anyway, I still love the light...especially for the price. You still can't build something like this for any less. Just the LEDs, lens, and reflector would cost you at least $55. BUT...I hope it holds up!


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## oren1s (Nov 12, 2007)

I just got my Wolf Eyes Thunder which looks the same as this one, does it the same???


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## rgbgum (Nov 12, 2007)

I just received the light today. It work perfectly for few minutes, then it died. Exactly same situation as markone. The light would not turn on, and it smelled burned.


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## Monocrom (Nov 12, 2007)

oren1s said:


> I just got my Wolf Eyes Thunder which looks the same as this one, does it the same???


 
Considering the price difference and Wolf-Eyes' reputation, compared to Ultrafire; I doubt the two lights have the same level of quality. 

Still, test out your Thunder before you need to rely on it. Let us know how it performs.


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## jake25 (Nov 12, 2007)

quick question are the emitters on star or on round?


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 12, 2007)

jake25 said:


> quick question are the emitters on star or on round?


Round


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## markone (Nov 12, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> I checked the current and voltage at the emitters on mine today. Emitters are being driven at 850 mA, and the voltage at each emitter was 3.45 to 3.50



So the total power transferred to leds is 3 x 3.5 x 0.85 = 9W.

Taking into account an efficiency of 80% the total current on 2x18650 should be around 1.4 Amp 

We are near to the double of it.

This driver could not survive, even on the paper.

DX, we have a problem :duh2:


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## markone (Nov 12, 2007)

rgbgum said:


> I just received the light today. It work perfectly for few minutes, then it died. Exactly same situation as markone. The light would not turn on, and it smelled burned.



Yes, just like mine :ironic:
"poop happens", and this time, happened :sigh:


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## petrev (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi,

Clicky Tail.

Run on high to test heat dissipation and . . .
All LEDs dim suddenly after about 3min. Still switches modes as before but very low output !

Externally almost no heating - barely warm - but inside burning hot. No real heat sink path, only contact between lovely metal reflector, large heat sink-LED mount and outside world is the earth contact with the battery tube. Big air gap between head and reflector/internals !

Waiting to see what DX say . . .

Cheers
Pete


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## Wassernaut (Nov 12, 2007)

So, am I understanding all this correctly? It's using this drop in module in a WF-500 that's causing the light to fail? So I should hold off ordering this drop in to use in my extra WF-500? Or is all of the above referring to a different mod? I'm fairly inexperienced, and had hoped to use this drop in on my WF-500, but now am gun shy. Can somebody confirm that I should hold up and not use this in a WF-500? Thanks, Larry


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 12, 2007)

Wassernaut said:


> So, am I understanding all this correctly? It's using this drop in module in a WF-500 that's causing the light to fail? So I should hold off ordering this drop in to use in my extra WF-500? Or is all of the above referring to a different mod? I'm fairly inexperienced, and had hoped to use this drop in on my WF-500, but now am gun shy. Can somebody confirm that I should hold up and not use this in a WF-500? Thanks, Larry


 I've ordered one I will let you know when it goes


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## Leow (Nov 12, 2007)

markone said:


> Yes, just like mine :ironic:
> "poop happens", and this time, happened :sigh:



... and mine too !

LeoW


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## markone (Nov 12, 2007)

Leow said:


> ... and mine too !
> 
> LeoW



OK, no more doubts, this flashlight driver has big troubles.

My suggestion for those that have it still working is to stop to use it.

Anyone got an answer from DX service ?


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## ernsanada (Nov 12, 2007)

I also ordered the 3-LED Cree 3-Mode Regulator + Reflector 2x18650 Module Set (3.6V-9V) but I cancelled the order after reading this thread.

I referred DX to this thread.

The process was quick. It took about 1 hour to receive a reply to my email to have my paypal refunded.


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## Monocrom (Nov 12, 2007)

Thanks guys..... Looks like my Ultrafire 18650s are staying on the shelf.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 12, 2007)

Mine is still going... used it more today. I'm going to torture test it over the next few days. If it fails, I'll just find another driver or make it direct drive...I wouldn't mind single-mode operation anyway.

I'll let you guys know what happens. Standby for the


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## f22shift (Nov 12, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi,
> 
> Clicky Tail.
> 
> ...


 
hey, could you stick steel wool in the gap to transfer heat? or would this cause a circuit problem


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## saabluster (Nov 12, 2007)

f22shift said:


> hey, could you stick steel wool in the gap to transfer heat? or would this cause a circuit problem


No offense. But that is a bad idea from every angle. It will need some solid metal to transfer the heat. I'm working on it right now. I want to run each lead as high as possible(1200-1600mA) so my solution will have to be VERY good.


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## saabluster (Nov 12, 2007)

Wassernaut said:


> So, am I understanding all this correctly? It's using this drop in module in a WF-500 that's causing the light to fail? So I should hold off ordering this drop in to use in my extra WF-500? Or is all of the above referring to a different mod? I'm fairly inexperienced, and had hoped to use this drop in on my WF-500, but now am gun shy. Can somebody confirm that I should hold up and not use this in a WF-500? Thanks, Larry


The WF-500 name is used for two versions of the same flashlight. An LED and xenon version. The body of the two are exactly the same. If you bought the "drop-in" and put it in your WF-500 you would have the exact same thing as if you bought the WF-500 led flashlight from DX. So I don't know if you could really classify it as a MOD. As I mentioned in my review of the light on DX this light will only be good once the heatsinking issue is resolved. If you are a "handy" guy and know how to make stuff work than this light has TONS of potential.


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## jake25 (Nov 13, 2007)

saabluster said:


> No offense. But that is a bad idea from every angle. It will need some solid metal to transfer the heat. I'm working on it right now. I want to run each lead as high as possible(1200-1600mA) so my solution will have to be VERY good.


from a mathematical point steel wool would be a good idea due to higher surface area...


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## saabluster (Nov 13, 2007)

jake25 said:


> from a mathematical point steel wool would be a good idea due to higher surface area...


Please don't try to keep this thought path going. It will NOT work. I'm not trying to be rude just trying to stop you from wasting yours and other people's time.


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## aemkei77 (Nov 13, 2007)

> Please don't try to keep this thought path going. It will NOT work. I'm not trying to be rude just trying to stop you from wasting yours and other people's time.



i would be nice, though, if you share your knowledge WHY it would not be a good idea and what you would propose 

many thanks


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## aljsk8 (Nov 13, 2007)

i thought i could very briefly help here (although plenty more information is available on this subject)

the steel wool would be a bad i idea because - 1) steel is a poor conductor of heat, 2) air is a poor conductor of heat, 3) and for a good transfer of heat you need surface area - 4) and mass. So yes wire wool has surface area but you still need a decent chunk of solid metal to get rid of that heat and preferably copper aluminum or silver (not steel)

theres more technical info available on cpf but for now im afraid the rude guy was right - its a bad idea and it will not work

simple answer - avoid this light
complex answer - mod if you know what your doing


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## f22shift (Nov 13, 2007)

yeah you are right. pure silver, copper, aluminum and brass make a better heat conductor.
so anyone want to try some aluminum foil stuffed in there to see if it transfers heat to the body? 


or do they sell copper wool in the stores?


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## batvette (Nov 13, 2007)

I just want to say while I feel bad for markone and others who bought one of theser and saw its quick demise, your comments here and at DX's site are greatly appreciated as it saved me the same grief. 
I had been torn between this, the MXpower, and a couple others, and after seeing your comments ordered the MX.'
To DX's credit he is allowing the comments about failed units be displayed at his site, thus I had no regrets about ordering the MX power from him, if he were unscrupulous he'd delete them with a "nothing wrong here" attitude. Good guy. 
So it's looking like that $175 EYJ unit may not be such a bad deal after all? It was still a bit rich for me but I want a good bright light, if this MXpower falls short I may find myself buying one. 

As it is I have two elektrolumens little friends, both the luxeon and SSC versions. I hope the MX's output equals the latter's.


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## aemkei77 (Nov 13, 2007)

aljsk8 said:


> i thought i could very briefly help here (although plenty more information is available on this subject)
> 
> the steel wool would be a bad i idea because ...



thanks for the info, now that you wrote it its obvious 

since the heat issue is directly related to the insane current replacing the driver should resolve both issues

or do you, who already have this light, think heat conduction is so poor that even @ 700 (or 1000 max) mA the light will burn!?


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## markone (Nov 13, 2007)

f22shift said:


> yeah you are right. pure silver, copper, aluminum and brass make a better heat conductor.
> so anyone want to try some aluminum foil stuffed in there to see if it transfers heat to the body?
> 
> 
> or do they sell copper wool in the stores?




My 2 cents about this matter :

converting 10 Watts into heat, even if well spreaded into all flashlight body, is an insane job.

The real fix is to swap the driver with one with decent efficiency.

Still no answer from DX.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 13, 2007)

Did some testing today using LiFePO4 18650's in the light. Ran the light on high for 30 minutes.

Current draw: 2.45 amps (I believe the loaded voltage of these batteries is about 3.2V each)

Battery voltage at end: 3.14 and 3.07

Temps: 120 deg F at head, 114 deg at body. Batteries upon removal, 109 deg and 114 deg.

Current showed 2.45 at end of test, so the light was still in regulation. Lux values remained fairly consistent throughout test. I didn't want to push the batteries any further... these shouldn't be drawn under 2.7V, and from the looks of it they probably hit 2.6V or so under load here. Heating of the flashlight head and body seemed to progress at a similar rate as any other light I've had, so I wouldn't call the heatsinking absolutely horrendous. Room for improvement?...sure. 

120 deg flashlight temp is quite warm, but a far cry from some older 2 x RCR123 K2 LED lights I've had in the past that would hit 155 degrees.


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## saabluster (Nov 14, 2007)

aemkei77 said:


> i would be nice, though, if you share your knowledge WHY it would not be a good idea and what you would propose
> 
> many thanks


Sorry , I really wasn't trying to be rude. My wife was beckoning me to come to bed so I did not have time to sit and explain it all to you. 

Thank you aljsk8 for helping me out. In addition steel wool breaks and you will have little pieces of conductor floating around your flashlight getting into the driver, on the reflector, and shorting out on the battery. It must be solid metal that conducts the heat out of the flashlight to the body. Despite all the issues with this light it really doesn't bother me. I was already going to replace the drivers anyway. And as far as heatsinking goes I'm going to cut out a piece of 1/4" thick alluminum to fit in between the drop-in and the head of the flashlight. It will be a very tight fit so as to transmit as much heat as possible. 

The reason I think this will be much better to MOD than the MX power is (1) it can take 18650s (2)the reflector is made from aluminum so when I try and run these puppies at 2A each I dont have to worry about the reflector melting. I've already sent off my reflector to have it coated with 99.999% aluminum for 92% reflectivity. Should give me a good bump up in output.


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## vetkaw63 (Nov 15, 2007)

saabluster said:


> I've already sent off my reflector to have it coated with 99.999% aluminum for 92% reflectivity. Should give me a good bump up in output.




Where and how much?
Thanks,
Mike


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 15, 2007)

saabluster said:


> I've already sent off my reflector to have it coated with 99.999% aluminum for 92% reflectivity. Should give me a good bump up in output.


 
Mine appears to be plated brass...like chrome plating, really shiny. Is yours not shiny?


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## saabluster (Nov 15, 2007)

vetkaw63 said:


> Where and how much?
> Thanks,
> Mike


 Its a guy on Ebay. I'd rather not say how much. Don't run out to find him just yet. This is new for him so we need to see if it is possible to do yet. If it works out great I'll let everyone know. I took measurements beforehand so I'll know if it makes a difference. I'll post the results in the mods forum.


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## saabluster (Nov 15, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> Mine appears to be plated brass...like chrome plating, really shiny. Is yours not shiny?


Yes mine was shiny. But shiny does not mean it has the best reflectance. You should check out this(Newbie's) site. There is an orgy of information there for flashlight modders. This shows the difference between coatings. According to Newbie almost all reflectors for flashlights are Nickel or Rhodium.


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## copiertech (Nov 15, 2007)

recieved mine yesterday, typical ultrafire light, a brilliant light that arrives 90% finished needing some rework. a diamond in the rough. first thing to do was take the head off and file a mil off the mating face to the battery tube to stop a flicker, sanded and cleaned all the contact points, sputtered the reflectors with clear lacquer for more spill and a smoother spot without the dark ring. then i set to work on the thermal path. there was no thermal path to speak of, only around a 1mm wide ring of the light engine is touching the body. i dont have a lathe so i couldnt make a shim or spigot ring so i got some copper core starter motor wire, stripped off the insulation and wrapped it tightly round the LE to build up the diameter then forced it into the head with a nice tight fit. now the body gets warm quickly on high, the body never used to heat up at all before i done this mod but if you took out the LE after using it on high it would be too hot to touch, now it doesnt get as hot as the heat is spread to the body. its not an ideal thermal path but it`s far better than what it was and it`s good enough for my purposes and didn`t cost me anything. current draw is 900mA, 1500ma and 2100ma for low med and high on freshly charged protected trustfire 2500mAH 18650s


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 15, 2007)

saabluster said:


> Yes mine was shiny. But shiny does not mean it has the best reflectance. You should check out this(Newbie's) site. There is an orgy of information there for flashlight modders. This shows the difference between coatings. According to Newbie almost all reflectors for flashlights are Nickel or Rhodium.


 
Good stuff... thanks!


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## copiertech (Nov 15, 2007)

playing further with it i see theres a battery extension tube. if you remove it the light takes 3 rcr123s, i didnt switch it on as i dont want to fry it but if the driver goes faulty a cheap fix would be to wire the emitters in series and run it DD off 3x rcr123


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## Tubor (Nov 15, 2007)

Great stuff copiertech! Got any more pictures? Couldn't you just use some CPU thermal transfer compound instead of the copper wires, or maybe as well as for better contact?


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## f22shift (Nov 15, 2007)

anybody modify the led yet? is it a p4 or q2?

i'm going to replace the first lightup led to a red cree. so i have one red mode for nightvision then red-white and red-white-white. red should help in color rendering for the other modes.
or red white blue?


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 15, 2007)

f22shift said:


> anybody modify the led yet? is it a p4 or q2?
> 
> i'm going to replace the first lightup led to a red cree. so i have one red mode for nightvision then red-white and red-white-white. red should help in color rendering for the other modes.


 
Now that's a darn good idea!


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## saabluster (Nov 16, 2007)

f22shift said:


> anybody modify the led yet? is it a p4 or q2?
> 
> i'm going to replace the first lightup led to a red cree. so i have one red mode for nightvision then red-white and red-white-white. red should help in color rendering for the other modes.
> or red white blue?


That really is a great idea.


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## saabluster (Nov 16, 2007)

copiertech said:


> r i dont have a lathe so i couldnt make a shim or spigot ring so i got some copper core starter motor wire, stripped off the insulation and wrapped it tightly round the LE to build up the diameter then forced it into the head with a nice tight fit.


 Although not the "perfect" solution that is probably adequate to handle to amount of heat from this light. Good job thinking out of the box.


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## johnny13oi (Nov 16, 2007)

To copiertech, can this wire be had for really cheap? And you could probably put some thermal paste all over the wires to make a little better thermal contact between the wire and the Light engine and between the wire and the body.

And I have not bought one yet, but I am definitely trying to decide between either the tri cree WF500 or the MX. I really really want the WF500 as it takes 18650s which I already have as compared to the MX which takes 123As which I don't have. And is the driver easily changed on this one? I wish i change it so that all LEDs light up but with different modes. Anything driver out there that is really cheap and will take 2 li-ion input and drive a cree with multi modes?


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## copiertech (Nov 16, 2007)

i had some just sitting in my shed, but you can buy jumpleads pretty cheap, i saw a set for £1.99 the other day. i thought about thermal paste but i didnt have any, plus i might do further mods, probably 3xq5s and maybe a shark and a pot so i didnt want the mess. plus the fact most cpu thermal paste isnt actually that good a conductor of heat, its really meant to be used in tiny amounts just to fill in the microscopic craters in a cpu die, but for most of the cpu die to be in direct physical contact with the heatsink, the thermal paste just helps prevent hotspots due to uneven surfaces.


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## petrev (Nov 23, 2007)

Hi

No word from DX yet . . .

So I decided to have a look at the driver and remove it pending a replacement.

When the driver is removed there is loads of space inside the "heatsink" for a replacement.

Does anyone know if the Shark/Ramora would need proper heatsinking if used in this light ?

Anyway in the meantime there is so much space that 3x18500 will easily fit in the now roomier tube and head . . . so I made up a little disk and attached the spring from the dead driver, wired the Crees in series and . . . Bingo !



 . 




3x AW17500 ~ 1.2A DD for 20,000Lux+ @1m

Now I need to fit some copper wire as posted above to improve the heatsinking :thinking:

Pete

*BUT . . .*

Fresh batteries ! ! ! 

1.8A . . . 

Nice and bright - but I think someone who knows what they are doing ! might tell me I need a resistor (?) in there. Wonder what size it should be . . . ?

Let me know. Ta.
P.


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## LEDite (Nov 24, 2007)

Petrev;

I agree; you need a resistor!

I'd start with about 1.5 ohms and check the current.

2 watts should be OK for an amp of current.

Larry Cobb


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## petrev (Nov 24, 2007)

:twothumbs


LEDite said:


> Petrev;
> 
> I agree; you need a resistor!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info
:twothumbs


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## Dangerboy (Nov 26, 2007)

After weeks of waiting, my WF 500 arrived this morning. Put in a couple of 18650s and... ... nothing.​ Will clean the contacts and try again with fully charged batteries. Has anyone else had problems with theirs not working?​ The copper jump lead trick is a great idea but I can't see how you get the glass out of the front.​ Can anyone offer some advice? I've unscrewed the head unit from the battery tube but now I'd stumped.​ Thanks in advance )​ Adam​


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## Dangerboy (Nov 26, 2007)

I am an idiot!
Just got the bezel off.
Ho hum


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## Wassernaut (Nov 26, 2007)

Dangerboy said:


> After weeks of waiting, my WF 500 arrived this morning. Put in a couple of 18650s and... ... nothing.​
> 
> 
> Will clean the contacts and try again with fully charged batteries. Has anyone else had problems with theirs not working?​
> ...


 

The WF-500 won't work with most 18650's. I had to go to AW's to get mine to come on. The 500 draws so much power it trips the protection circuit on lower quality cells. With some cells you can get it to come on by setting the tail-cap for momentary (loosened just a bit) and "double tapping" (tapping the tail-cap repeatedly, which might warm up the filiment enough to get it to stay on, it will start flashing on & off). I can usually get mine to work with cheap cells by tapping the tail-cap three or four times, then quickly tightening the cap for constant on. I now use nothing but AW's in my 500 and it works great. Hope this helps. - Larry


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## saabluster (Nov 26, 2007)

Dangerboy said:


> After weeks of waiting, my WF 500 arrived this morning. Put in a couple of 18650s and... ... nothing.​ Will clean the contacts and try again with fully charged batteries. Has anyone else had problems with theirs not working?​


I had this problem when I got mine. The negative contact is not very good in between the drop-in and the body. The bezel/glass does not push far enough down on the drop-in to allow it to contact the body very well. I put a blob of solder on the negative contact on the bottom of the drop-in to take up some of the space.


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## saabluster (Nov 26, 2007)

Wassernaut said:


> (tapping the tail-cap repeatedly, which might warm up the filiment enough to get it to stay on, it will start flashing on & off).



We aren't talking about the hotwire version.


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## bbriand (Nov 27, 2007)

f22shift said:


> anybody modify the led yet? is it a p4 or q2?
> 
> i'm going to replace the first lightup led to a red cree. so i have one red mode for nightvision then red-white and red-white-white. red should help in color rendering for the other modes.
> or red white blue?


 
Replacing one with a red emitter sounds like a great idea. I have searched the forums and come up with a German supplier of these.

Is this where people ordered them from? Is there a place in NA that stocks them or possibly eBay?

The specs for the German ones show that they are 3v max. Has anyone done this mod? If so what size resistor did you use?

Cheers,
Bill


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## aemkei77 (Nov 27, 2007)

Some Pictures of the Driver:
http://picasaweb.google.at/aemkei77/Bikelights
(didn't know how to link images directly, seems not to work with picasa)

didn't run the light to long, just checked the current and now I'm waiting for the new driver.

The light needs a lot of sanding to make the Drop in touch the body, however, I think by this heat conduction could be substantially improved.


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## kaidomain (Nov 27, 2007)

kbrd said:


> Does anyone have one of these that is working properly? If so what are your impressions?


 
Since someone asked me to take a look at this post, I will give my two cents. The boost driver on this light is probably not designed to handle the huge current conversion when steping up from 8V to 12V. Or I may say, is faulty designed.

As for the heat sink issue, maybe we can use some copper wire and add thermal silicon gel to pass the heat :shrug:?

Kai


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## aemkei77 (Nov 27, 2007)

mine has burned also, after just 1 to maybe 2 min of continuous use. 
Not only the driver, the leds seem dead too.

Hate this day


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## ljsmith (Nov 28, 2007)

I have been watching this thread for a while because I ordered this flashlight to make a helmet mount bike light out of. I just got it today. I am using a NiMH AA battery pack. I initially ran it with 4 AA for an hour at which point it started to dim due to the batteries being drained. During that time barely any heat was generated and the heatsink was not that hot. So I decided to move up to 6 AA. After 1 minute running on this battery pack the light started to flicker so I turned it off. I went back to the 4 AA pack and it worked except the low mode (1 led running) now lights all 3 leds. For instance when you cycle the power it goes 3 leds, 3 leds, 2 leds. Based on what I have seen the drive cannot handle the input voltage because it seems to work fine with the 4 AA pack.


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## aemkei77 (Nov 28, 2007)

I also wanted to use it as helmet light. Based on the weight (190 gr ca. 6 .75 ounces) I decided to mount it on the bar instead.

However, after a bit of flickering it  (on 7.4 LiIon), whereas it had been running quite good on 6 volts. at least for the few seconds I had it to play with it

Today my drivers arrived, which I wanted to use instead of the original one.
Too late , I should have waited  

I would recommend yo the same, since part of your driver has gone already.


And, this would be very nice, could you make a bike-related beamshot or just tell me if its floody enough?

Thanx
martin


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## ideefixe (Nov 28, 2007)

I, too, bought the upgrade dropin and it has failed. I managed to make it fit into a Mag C head with some crumbled up aluminum foil at the bottom pushing it up against the lens. When I tried to use 2x18650, it started to smoke after a couple of minutes. I quickly disconnected it and checked it with a single 18650. Still working, great. Then I let it ran on high for about 10-20mins on a single 18650. Nice and bright even on a single cell. After that, I touched the Mag head - slightly warm; reflector - slightly warm; emitter module - scorching hot! In fact it got so hot that the Cree emitters lifted from the solder pads on the mini pcboards. This dropin has very poor heatsinking and questionable driver. Definitely would not recommend it to anyone.


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## markone (Nov 28, 2007)

So it seems that this driver was designed for a single LiIon cell or NiMh series.

Really a dumb manufacturer mistake.


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## petrev (Nov 28, 2007)

Hi,

Took my faulty driver apart and Q4 is burnt out - would have a photo but my Computer-mobo just died too ! Sounds like poor or wrong driver. DX need to find a better or correct driver. 

In the meantime I have a 1ohm resistor fitted and am Direct driving at about 1A from 3x 17500 cells - Actually rather nice - heats up but not as bad as before - still need some more heatsinking for longer runs.

Cheers
Pete


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## ljsmith (Nov 28, 2007)

I just got back from my first bike ride using my helmet mounted light made from this flashlight. I used a battery pack with 4 AA Accupower 2900 mah NiMH batteries. I rode for an hour and a half with all three leds lit. It was very bright for the first hour, then dropped to about 50% the initial light output, but this was still plenty bright to light up the trail. I brought an extra battery pack thinking I would need it, but I didn't. Even with only 4.8 volts it has great throw as well as plenty of spill. Heat was not an issue, while riding the light always has plenty of air rushing past it and it is only 37F out right now. Considering what I paid for it I am very satisfied. For my purposes it works great. From what others have said it doesn't seem to be very useful as a flashlight however.

I tired to take some beam shots, but I have never done it before and they didn't really come out. Does anyone have any recommendations as to the proper way to take beam shots? I tried not using a flash, but they didn't come out well at all. When using a flash the flash makes the light look brighter than it is. I will attach one of the beam shots I took without using a flash (even though the light put out much more than the picture captures) as well as pics of the light.


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## f22shift (Nov 28, 2007)

that's cool. what did you attach to the rear of the head? looks pretty professional.

you should use a tripod with your camera


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## ljsmith (Nov 29, 2007)

The rear of the head is from a dorcy 3 watt headlamp. I used two small drops of epoxy to hold it on and then wrapped electrical tape around it (I want to be able to remove it if needed). I will probably paint the rear black if the light survives repeated use. The switch is from radio shack.


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## petrev (Nov 29, 2007)

Hi

The offending part of my driver


[URL="http://imageshack.us"]

[/URL]
. . .

Probably !

Looks like it works fine if only driven with 4xNiMh ( *ljsmith* ) so I guess sombody spec'd the wrong driver ! ! ! 

Nice Bike Light by the way :thumbsup:

Pete

ps. Most of the heat now seems to be generated by the resistor . . .


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## johnny13oi (Nov 30, 2007)

Nice pictures of the driver. Any way on figuring out how to replace this part with the correct one? I really want to buy this light but I want to know that I can make it work. I am definitely going to do the thick wire thing to better transfer the heat. I am just trying to figure out how to drive this thing. I am looking for a cheap driver fix as I want to use 2 X 18650s which is why I don't want the MX power.


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## aemkei77 (Nov 30, 2007)

My idea had been to use 3 drivers in parallel, one per led.
Unfortenately, they arrrived too late..


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## Mr_Light (Nov 30, 2007)

Here is my experience with the Drop-in version. I installed it in my WF500 and was really supprised how bright it was. I was wondering if the LEDs were being over driven. I tested it for a few minutes and set it aside. After reading about fried drivers and LEDs I decided I would test the drop-in with a little less input voltage. Hooked up to 2D Alk batteries its a little under driven, but still very useable brightness. On 3D Alk batteries its nice and bright, switches modes fine, about as bright as my Q5s driven and 800mA. Based on this I dropped it into a Mag 3C I had lying around, direct driven off 3C NiMH cells. I direct wired the switch (usual cut down switch) to the stock driver board. Works great, switches modes fine, nice and bright. I ran it on high (all three leds on) for two hours with the Mag head only getting a little warm. I may look into stuffing the head with aluminum foil or some other way to improve thermal conduction to the Mag body.


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## Tubor (Nov 30, 2007)

I looked at the light on DX and there appears to be a battery extension tube. So what battery options are there size-wise? Could you put a 18650 in there with a dummy AA cell or something? 3 x AA's? Are there any extra tubes available for this?


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 30, 2007)

I've switched from using 18650 Li-Ions to 18650 LiFePO4's. This reduces input voltage by 1 volt. Not a dramatic reduction, but it cuts down the amount of watts the driver dissipates. 

Using 18650 Li-Ions, input voltage under load was 7.4V, and current draw was 2.5A. Emitters were running at 800 mA and 3.3V each. This comes out to an input of 18.5 watts and an output of 7.92 watts. The driver was dissipating 10.58 watts as heat... yikes!

Using the 18650 LiFePO4's, input voltage is 6.4V and current draw is 2.45A. This is an input of 15.68 watts. With the same output of 7.92 watts, the driver now dissipates only 7.76 watts. I used the same output wattage as the example above because my light meter didn't show any drop in light output by going to the LiFePO4's. Runtime on high is around 30 minutes... possibly longer, but I didn't want to discharge the LiFePO4's too low. 

It still might be too much for the driver to handle, but so far so good.


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## phantom23 (Nov 30, 2007)

kaidomain said:


> Since someone asked me to take a look at this post, I will give my two cents. The boost driver on this light is probably not designed to handle the huge current conversion when steping up from 8V to 12V. Or I may say, is faulty designed.
> 
> As for the heat sink issue, maybe we can use some copper wire and add thermal silicon gel to pass the heat :shrug:?
> 
> Kai


 
4Modes 3-Cree Flashlight (2x18650) looks sooo similar to WF-500 3 Cree...


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 30, 2007)

phantom23 said:


> 4Modes 3-Cree Flashlight (2x18650) looks sooo similar to WF-500 3 Cree...


 
Looks to be the same light with a different driver. It's pulling half the current. I wonder what current the LEDs are being driven at.


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## petrev (Nov 30, 2007)

Very Very Similar . . .

Notes :- 

Different knurl pattern on body !
Lock ring inside body tube head end
Slightly different reflector (maybe)
Slightly different heatsink/LED mount (shorter upper lip and wider lower body - Maybe)
Lock ring sized to fit in head ? ? ? Somewhere !
Different driver - Strobe mode added.
O-Rings and threads at head and tail of body tube slightly different.

WF 500 3Cree
WF 500 Drop In

KD 4Mode 3Cree


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## Tubor (Nov 30, 2007)

Looks good. Just bought one!


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## johnny13oi (Nov 30, 2007)

Hey guys, I am looking for a driver that takes in a voltage input of 2 X Li-ions and having multi levels driving a single LED so that I can run 3 in parallel in this flashlight. Thanks guys. Something cheap would be preferable.


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## johnnymceldoo (Dec 1, 2007)

IVe had my ultrafire 3 cree light from DX for about 3-4 weeks now with no problems. It did take about a month for them to get it to me and they offered to give me a refund but I held out. 

Iam running it on 3 CR123's but have also ran it with 2 18650's and havnt noticed any problems whatsoever. Its brighter than my Tiablo A9 and fit and finish are well above my expectations for a $45 flashlight. Its not a replacement for the Tiablo as its larger and heavier but its a good bang for the buck.


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## Dangerboy (Dec 2, 2007)

I too waited a month to get this, and all was going well.
I was just about to write that mine was working fine with 2x 18650s (after packing out the head with copper wire) but I turned it on last night and . :sigh:
So, what to do with it now?
I'd like to have a working light- any word on whether DX will be sorting us out with anything? There must be quite a few of us with dead flashlights!

The second alternative is to try replacing the driver myself- have fellow CPF'ers had much luck either way?
Thanks
Adam


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## aemkei77 (Dec 2, 2007)

I just send my light back to DX, will take a couple of days and the another couple of weeks before I can tell you anythig.

If your leds are still working I would replace the driver.


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## LEDite (Dec 4, 2007)

I just received my WF-500 today.

In response to the failures noted I ran some Input Voltage vs. Current Tests:

Voltage 1-LED 2-LEDs 3 Leds Multimeter Readings
- - - - - - - - -Amps - - - - - Watts In Watts Out
4.2 - - - 0.8 - - 0.95 - - 1.1 
5.0 - - - 1.22 - - 1.8 - - 2.0 - - 10 - - - - 7 
6.0 - - - 1.6 - - 1.83 - - 2.3 - - 13.8 - - - 8
7.0 - - - 1.62 - - 1.85 - - 2.3
8.4 - - - 1.67 - - 1.89 - - 2.3 - - 19.2 - - - 8 

Observations:

1. Severe overdrive for 1 LED
2. About right for 2 LEDs
3. Underdrive for 3 LEDs - Driver wasting >50% of battery power

Driver should work for 5 to 6 Volts with better heat-sinking.

Direct Drive with one #18650 would have been more efficient and less costly.

Larry Cobb


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## LEDite (Dec 6, 2007)

Converted my WF 500 to one #18650 2400 mah battery today.

Shorter and no driver damage @ 4.2 Volts.

Next step is Direct drive and conversion to 3 UV Leds.

Larry Cobb


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## petrev (Dec 7, 2007)

LEDite said:


> Converted my WF 500 to one #18650 2400 mah battery today.
> 
> Shorter and no driver damage @ 4.2 Volts.
> 
> ...


 
Looking forward to details of the 3 UV DD mod . . .

Cheers Pete


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## TITAN1833 (Dec 7, 2007)

LEDite said:


> Converted my WF 500 to one #18650 2400 mah battery today.
> 
> Shorter and no driver damage @ 4.2 Volts.
> 
> ...


Hi,how did you convert it,did you cut the tube down :thinking:

EDIT:I am using 2x18650 with the drop in,have not used it for more than a minute at a time,so far so good.


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## Scourie (Dec 7, 2007)

I had one of these arrive today;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....m=280174004589&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

With an hours work on a Mag 4D, the LED module and reflector dropped right into it. The ceiling bounce test shows a huge improvement over a Tiablo A9 Q5, even running at the 4D's lower voltage.

Rob


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## johnny13oi (Dec 7, 2007)

How did you make it fit into the Mag? I definitely want to try this out if it is fairly simple.


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## petrev (Dec 7, 2007)

WF-500 Drop In - If you don't need the host - and drive it less . . . etc.


http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9358

.


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## LEDite (Dec 8, 2007)

Titan;

I took out the extender tube and made a brass dummy cell to take up the extra space.

Gives me a little over 1.1 amps from the battery.

Larry


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## TITAN1833 (Dec 8, 2007)

LEDite said:


> Titan;
> 
> I took out the extender tube and made a brass dummy cell to take up the extra space.
> 
> ...


Thanks,tried it and mine only works with 2x18650 or 3x RCR 123.


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## petrev (Dec 8, 2007)

Hmmm !

Sounds like a different driver 

?


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## TITAN1833 (Dec 8, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hmmm !
> 
> Sounds like a different driver
> 
> ?


Not sure all I can say is,the module came as one piece ie: the reflector/stuck firmly to the module,have they sorted the driver:shrug: I guess I'll find out if it goes


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## Scourie (Dec 8, 2007)

It was a very simple job to fit the 3xCree into the Mag. The first step was to use a Dremel to bevel the end of the Mag body, the LED module sits against this. Then the negative contact slider spring was cut off, as it wasn't required. The plastic bulb holder post was shortened by 10mm, and the metal sleeve trimmed to 10mm long. Finally, assemble and enjoy. Screwing down the head clamps the LED module against the mag body. I'll post a pic or two shortly.

I still need to improve the heatsinking, and fit a locking grub screw to the Mag head.

http://www.myimagehub.com/files/view/5957/DSCF0236 (Small).JPG
http://www.myimagehub.com/files/view/5957/DSCF0237 (Small).JPG
http://www.myimagehub.com/files/view/5957/DSCF0240 (Small).JPG
http://www.myimagehub.com/files/view/5957/DSCF0241 (Small).JPG

Rob


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## LEDite (Dec 8, 2007)

Titan;

I received my WF-500 on Dec. 4th, so I would assume it is the current driver.


Check your current with 2 #18650. If it is 2.2+ amps then the driver will fail due to excessive power in the driver.... 

You can run it for short periods only (~30 seconds safely).

Larry


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## aemkei77 (Dec 14, 2007)

got my replacement from DX,very good support and fast too :thumbsup:

now the current at the tailcap is .56, 1.06 and 1.6, which is 06. less than the one I had, before it


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## TITAN1833 (Dec 14, 2007)

I noticed my driver just hangs loose I'm sure it should not be like this hmmm,anyone else get theirs like this.


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## LEDite (Dec 16, 2007)

I converted my WF-500 to direct-drive today.

Took out the driver. Removed the inside circuit board and added a 1 Watt .39 ohm resistor. Connected it to the three white LEDs in parallel.

Took off the barrel extender and added a brass dummy cell.

Current @ the tailcap with one 2400mah #18650 battery is 1.5 amps. 
Still working on the heatsink improvement.

Good light output with 1.5 hour runtime. Switch is 1 Mode now.

5.4 watts to the LEDs ; 0.9 Watts Resistor - Efficiency 86%, better than the original driver !!!

Larry


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## aemkei77 (Dec 17, 2007)

LEDite said:


> 5.4 watts to the LEDs ; 0.9 Watts Resistor - Efficiency 86%, better than the original driver !!!
> 
> Larry



How's the brightness at 500mA?


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## LEDite (Dec 17, 2007)

aemkei77;

The brightness @ 5.4 W is a lot more than the Cree Q5's I have compared to operating @ 1 amp. I wanted a light I could operate for 15 min. without any overheating issues.

I wound & soldered some solid copper #14 wire between the aluminum LED holder and the flashlight body for better heatsinking.

It is slightly less overall light than the MX Power triple Cree.

Larry


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## Tubor (Dec 22, 2007)

Got this one. 

http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3954

Works but there is a huge gap between the LED module and the flashlight body - I've only run it for 20 seconds or so and it doesn't get that hot with that amount of runtime. I've also been restricted to running it with 2 x 14500's , which works, but it's drawing up to 1.7A which is probably pushing the batteries too hard. I'll have to file the inside of the tube down to get the 18650's to fit properly. And then figure out some way of transferring the heat from the LED module to the body. Maybe thick copper wire or something then. The module definitely wasn't designed for this torch (or at least not by a sane person) as it's the wrong shape. Goes 1 LED (0.5A), 2 LED's (1.1A), 3 LED's(1.7A and climbing?!), 3 LED's strobe.



























EDIT: Well after lots of aluminum foil heat-sink modeling it seems to be working fine with no over current issues (stabilizes around about 1.7A on three LED's, compared with 2A+ and rising before). I presume the over heating was what was causing it to draw more and more current.


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