# V-Bin SSC Watch



## chanamasala (Aug 18, 2007)

I just wanted to start a thread I can subscribe to for the lookout for V-bin SSC LEDs(118 - 154 lumens.) Word is they ought to be available third quarter this year. If anybody finds any information or any for sale please post here.

Got a link to a Mouser search for SSCs and one to Photon Fanatic:

http://www.mouser.com/search/Refine...27&GetRecs=1&Ns=P_SField&Msb=0&RefType=Header

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=85330


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## RoGeR (Aug 18, 2007)

I don't think that the V bin will come out in 2007.
120 lumens @ 350 mA with the same chip as Cree XR-E?

Now Cree Q5 bins has only 114 lumens. Maybe R2 will come out, that means 122 lumens max.


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## 45/70 (Aug 18, 2007)

I believe they are already out, in very limited quantities.

Also, SSC's phosphor coating produces higher luminous flux than Cree's, using the same die.

Dave


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## AlexGT (Aug 19, 2007)

ArcMania has a Maxlite III using a VSXOH bin SSC for sale, so they are out in the field right now.

*Come on Photonfanatic!!!! when can we get some???*

AlexGT


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## koala (Aug 19, 2007)

They are engineering sample.



AlexGT said:


> ArcMania has a Maxlite III using a VSXOH bin SSC for sale, so they are out in the field right now.
> 
> *Come on Photonfanatic!!!! when can we get some???*
> 
> AlexGT


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## tebore (Aug 20, 2007)

Can I assume the V-Bin is going to use the dies from the recent Q-bin crees. 

If Cree gets more Q5 out that means a W bin Seoul soon isn't out of the question. 

My thinking is Cree will only sell to Seoul dies that are the norm coming out of the fab plants. Cree will probably keep the primo dies and call them Q5s and sell it themselves and the ones that just don't make it will be binned Q4 and rest sold to partners. So when the process gets refined to the point where they can ship out the Q5 performing dies to partners, and Seoul combines it with their phosphors we can get some really bright LEDs.

 Imagining my HDS with with 170 - 200lumen output


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## bombelman (Aug 20, 2007)

How'bout Z5 bin :lolsign:


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## chanamasala (Aug 20, 2007)

From another thread:

"Just heard from SSC that mass production of V-rank will be next year..."

So, looks like a good long wait. Perhaps another manufacturer will come out with something as good in the meantime.

SeoulSC, if you are reading, please hurry or provide some to CPFers for evaluation.


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## uk_caver (Aug 21, 2007)

tebore said:


> My thinking is Cree will only sell to Seoul dies that are the norm coming out of the fab plants. Cree will probably keep the primo dies and call them Q5s and sell it themselves and the ones that just don't make it will be binned Q4 and rest sold to partners. So when the process gets refined to the point where they can ship out the Q5 performing dies to partners, and Seoul combines it with their phosphors we can get some really bright LEDs.



Do they actually bin and separate the dies before adding phosphor and packaging, as well as afterwards?


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## tebore (Aug 21, 2007)

I have no idea. It's just my thinking and based on what I saw when they first released the P4 die SSC finally had the U-Bin.


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## uk_caver (Aug 21, 2007)

It just seems like unless there were pressing reasons to bin before and after packaging (better quality control?), it might be an extra complication, but that is just speculation.

If there were multiple lines producing dies, and some were better than others, then maybe the generally better products might be more easily kept in-house, but presumably there might be efforts made to bring lines up to the higher standard where that's actually practical and economic.


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## evan9162 (Aug 21, 2007)

Cree does bin dies before packaging:

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/CPR3CR.pdf

So a company could specify a certian output of blue LED chips from cree, and package them in a white LED themselves.


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## uk_caver (Aug 21, 2007)

Thanks for that - it's always good to learn something new.

Presumably if there's internal and external demand for higher-spec devices, there's a fair pressure pushing them towards satisfying all the demand?
Especially with their packaging being different to Seoul, they're not in direct competition in the sense that customers could easily switch from one to another on a whim?


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## tebore (Aug 21, 2007)

AH HA! So my suspicion was correct I'm gonna skip the V-bin and go for the W-bin when it comes out. I'm 90% that using the Seoul phosphor the dies used for the Q5 that it will easily push the envelope of the V-bin in to W-bin territory.


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## uk_caver (Aug 21, 2007)

Are Cree simply making brighter dies, or are they doing things with _their_ phosphors?


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## daveman (Aug 27, 2007)

chanamasala said:


> I just wanted to start a thread I can subscribe to for the lookout for V-bin SSC LEDs(118 - 154 lumens.) Word is they ought to be available third quarter this year. If anybody finds any information or any for sale please post here.


 
118-154 lumens @ 350 mA?! That's the problem with SSC leds. With a variation range of 36 lumens for a potential output of 118 lumens, that's just too large to be taken seriously. They might as well say it'll be between 1-500 lumens @ 350 mA.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172379

A thread a couple of slots down from this one shows a fellow member's numbers on a variety of power LEDs. At almost all input levels, the Cree XR-E Q4 smoked the SSC U bin in output. Yet on paper, the SSC U bin is suppose to have a higher max. output.


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## uk_caver (Aug 27, 2007)

Certainly, Cree do have much tighter bins, but Seoul aren't in a hugely different position to Lumileds, who have bins covering ranges like 114-148lm and 148-192lm. The ratio from one end of a bin to another seems to be basically 3:4.

As far as I'm concerned, even with Seoul's existing bins, LEDs from opposite ends of a bin are not likely to look much different in practice without very careful comparison.
I'd welcome somewhat tighter bins (maybe half as wide?), but the reason I'd like tighter bins would be that the people looking for the absolute brightest LEDs could get them with confidence, and pay a price premium that would ideally make my slightly lower-spec purchases cheaper.


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## tebore (Dec 24, 2007)

It's been like 4 months since the first prototypes were seen of the V-bins does anyone have any news?


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## PhantomPhoton (Dec 24, 2007)

V or W ... Bring 'em on! I have a couple hosts just waiting for them.


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## daveman (Dec 24, 2007)

tebore said:


> It's been like 4 months since the first prototypes were seen of the V-bins does anyone have any news?


Don't hold your breath, I think Seoul is busy with dealing with Nichia or some other giant company in a lawsuit of somekind. Even without the lawsuit, the release wouldn't be up to SSC as Cree will have to okay the shipment of the die to SSC. This could take till after next summer.


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## 3rd_shift (Dec 24, 2007)

OIC, I wondered what the holdup was after a strong start.
Still, Lumileds is going to have to pick up the pace a bit on thier part regardless.
I almost like thier new Rebel leds and thier newer 200 lumen K2's.
But Cree and even SSC in thier current form still has them beat for now in too many ways for me to get those imho. :shrug:


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## tebore (Dec 24, 2007)

But I want it now! I don't wanna wait till the summer I want it NOW! :mecry:

My HDS' need a shot in the arm now that all these 200lumen Cree Q5 lights are out.


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## daveman (Dec 25, 2007)

The SSC U bin is "pretty much" on par with the Q5 bin from Cree (admittedly not as bright, but close), just not as tough. When the R4 bin from Cree comes out, yes, it may be time to ditch the U bin from SSC, but for now, the U bin is still in play.


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## skalomax (Dec 27, 2007)

I agree, SSC are still kick butt.


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## Chriss (Jan 13, 2008)

Did anybody made tests with newly purchased SSC P4-U bin LED? Just im curious that these LEDs from the latest production, can make more lumens than the already tested first u-bins or not?! So i have info about the latest U-bins has average 115lm/W or 115lm at 350ma... but i need any confirmation! thx


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## AvPD (Mar 15, 2008)

No sign yet.


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## 2xTrinity (Mar 16, 2008)

I'm aware I'm quoting a post from months ago:



tebore said:


> Can I assume the V-Bin is going to use the dies from the recent Q-bin crees.
> 
> If Cree gets more Q5 out that means a W bin Seoul soon isn't out of the question.



I have to disagree with this. Right now, we can't assume the efficacy improvement from Px to Qx (or even Rx) Cree Bins is strictly due to 
die improvement. I personally suspect much of the improvement is due to Cree improving their own phosphors.


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## tebore (Mar 16, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> I'm aware I'm quoting a post from months ago:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My counter to this is the change in vf from each Cree bin. Which means they might be tweaking the die slightly. I have nothing concrete, just pure speculation.


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## 2xTrinity (Mar 17, 2008)

tebore said:


> My counter to this is the change in vf from each Cree bin. Which means they might be tweaking the die slightly. I have nothing concrete, just pure speculation.


Me neither, My speculation that it has to do with phosphor and packaging changes is the fact that things like the number of bond wires, and the appearance of the phosphor have changed. For example, the Q5s I own only have phosphor ON the die iteslf, instead of covering the entire base of the package.

So it's most likely a combination of phosphor improvements and die improvements. I was disagreeing with the implication that since Crees have improved by such a percentage, SSCs would necessarily have the same percenage improvement if they could use the newer dice. I don't doubt there's been die improvement, just that that's not everything.


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## jirik_cz (Apr 11, 2008)

New Gatlights are going to have SSC P4 V-bin!
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194758


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## adnj (Apr 22, 2008)

Any news on when a v-bin star will be available from someone reputable?


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## ViReN (Apr 22, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> New Gatlights are going to have SSC P4 V-bin!
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194758



and from where are these coming.....

We need to have some one to get these.... where is Fred.......

It would be interesting to mod early version of NovaTac with the V Bin and see the change in output


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## TMorita (May 1, 2008)

adnj said:


> Any news on when a v-bin star will be available from someone reputable?


 
If you look at the Dealer's Corner, PhotonFanatic says he is awaiting notification of V-bins availability to place a new order.

Toshi


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## Reima (Jul 13, 2008)

TMorita said:


> If you look at the Dealer's Corner, PhotonFanatic says he is awaiting notification of V-bins availability to place a new order.
> 
> Toshi


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## Reima (Sep 6, 2008)

No V bins on the horizon as yet? 
RC


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## Thujone (Sep 6, 2008)

Supposedly there were V-bins in the last run of Gatlights...


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## Nitroz (Sep 6, 2008)

It's possible for a good U2 binned P4 to have the same output as a lower classed V bin P4. 

It is to bad the binning is so wide with the P4's. At least they broke up the U bin some with the U1 and U2.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 6, 2008)

My new Ti GatLight has the V bin, and Walter said that these have a very low vf.

Bill


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## Nitroz (Sep 6, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> My new Ti GatLight has the V bin, and Walter said that these have a very low vf.
> 
> Bill



Well.........is it a scorcher? How's the tint?


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 6, 2008)

Nitroz said:


> Well.........is it a scorcher? How's the tint?



White, and very bright. Can't compare to older model Seoul U bin GatLight, as I don't have one.

Bill


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 27, 2008)

Still holding onto hope for some good news.  Anyone have any?


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## Szemhazai (Sep 29, 2008)

According to Cree time schedule that was avalible on Cutter site for some time we should have allready Cree R4 bin avalible...
So if Cree doesn’t improve their led’s efficiency, there is no possiblity that SSC will improve their’s. :sigh:


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## R33E8 (Sep 29, 2008)

Szemhazai said:


> According to Cree time schedule that was avalible on Cutter site for some time we should have allready Cree R4 bin avalible...
> So if Cree doesn’t improve their led’s efficiency, there is no possiblity that SSC will improve their’s. :sigh:



Well a lot of the output also depends with the phosphor used... More efficient phosphors will yield more light output.. I think phosphors are only like 40% or 60% efficient.. I wonder how efficient quantum dots will be..


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## znomit (Sep 29, 2008)

Szemhazai said:


> According to Cree time schedule that was avalible on Cutter site for some time we should have allready Cree R4 bin avalible...
> So if Cree doesn’t improve their led’s efficiency, there is no possiblity that SSC will improve their’s. :sigh:


 
Yes, the schedule is hard to find now :mecry:
Though my last batch of R2s were 3.2V @ 1A down from 3.5-3.6 at christmas so things are improving. Maybe we are at R3 already?


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