# SF G2 Questions



## 3mw (Jun 27, 2007)

Hey guys, after alot of help and suggestions from this site, I just purchased my first SF G2:thumbsup:. Now I would like to make this a brighter rechargeable light with a decent runtime and I was wondering what lamp, cells, charger and dealer would you suggest. I did a search and found alot of great information, but I would still like to learn from your own personal experience. My budget is limited, so I want to make sure I order all the right parts to avoid the extra shipping charges. Thanks for you help.


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## springbok (Jun 27, 2007)

i went two ways:

i bought a 3.7v lamp assembly from a member on CPF, called AW.

This same guy sells good rechargeable batteries and charger as well.
The charger was the ultrafire wf-139, and the battery was the 17670, 3.7v.

I also bought an awesome LED dropin from dealextreme, and bought 2x rcr123 3.7v batteries from AW once again.

i love both configuarations.

oh, lighthound also sells the aforementioned goodies, except the dealextreme led dropin of course.

:naughty:


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## scott.cr (Jun 27, 2007)

Easiest, most high-performance way that comes to my mind is two RCR123s and a P90 or P91 lamp assembly.


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## DM51 (Jun 27, 2007)

scott.cr said:


> Easiest, most high-performance way that comes to my mind is two RCR123s and a P90 orP91 lamp assembly.


The P91 draws far too much current for R123s.


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## nzgunnie (Jun 27, 2007)

scott.cr said:


> Easiest, most high-performance way that comes to my mind is two RCR123s and a P90 or P91 lamp assembly.



You should be able to run a P90 on two protected RCR123s, AWs cells work fine with mine with a single click. 

You will not be able to run a P91 on two RCR123s, way to high current draw.


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## cernobila (Jun 27, 2007)

Yeah, similar to the above....my choice would be either

1x 17670 + LF EO-4 = 40 minutes with 135 lumen start OR

2x RCR123 + LF SR-9 = 30 minutes with 140 lumen start

note these are not Surefire lumens


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## Wingsfan23 (Jun 27, 2007)

You could also get a cell extender and use the 9 V lamps from lumens factory.


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## 3mw (Jun 27, 2007)

cernobila said:


> Yeah, similar to the above....my choice would be either
> 
> 1x 17670 + LF EO-4 = 40 minutes with 135 lumen start OR
> 
> ...


 
Cernobila, are you saying that I should *not* really expect 135 or 140 lumens? Also, will the 30 to 40 minutes be regulated? Thanks


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## BoomerSooner (Jun 27, 2007)

Don't use a single 17670 with a P90. I tried this setup over the weekend and got a very yellow, dull, ugly beam. I can't speak for the P90 & 2-RCR123 route, I have never tried it.


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## cernobila (Jun 28, 2007)

3mw said:


> Cernobila, are you saying that I should *not* really expect 135 or 140 lumens? Also, will the 30 to 40 minutes be regulated? Thanks



No, would not be regulated

135 is about 87 Surefire lumens and 140 is about 91 Surefire lumens.......what is normally quoted is "bulb" lumens, you multiply these by .65 to get the Surefire quoted "output" lumens......The typical 6P or G2 out of the box is quoted as 65 lumens.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, thanks.

Information above thanks to "mdocod"


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## cernobila (Jun 28, 2007)

BoomerSooner said:


> Don't use a single 17670 with a P90. I tried this setup over the weekend and got a very yellow, dull, ugly beam. I can't speak for the P90 & 2-RCR123 route, I have never tried it.



Boomer, the P90 is a 9V lamp, the 17670 is a 3.7V cell, not compatible......the P90 lamp will work with 2x RCR123 cells, (2x 3.7V = 7.4V, sufficient for 9V lamp) run time would be about 30 minutes and the initial output would be about 130 bulb lumens.

Information above thanks to "mdocod"

BTW, welcome to CPF


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## DM51 (Jun 28, 2007)

cernobila's advice is correct and accurate. He makes reference to CPFer mdocod's work on this, which is excellent and should be read by all who are not sure about which combination of lamp assemblies and batteries can be used in which light. Mdocod's guide can be read here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/161536

Also worth considering, if run-time is a concern, are the Cree D26 (P60-size) drop-ins available from Wolf-Eyes and DX. There are a number of threads about these active at the moment in the LED sub-forum.


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## BoomerSooner (Jun 28, 2007)

> Boomer, the P90 is a 9V lamp, the 17670 is a 3.7V cell, not compatible......the P90 lamp will work with 2x RCR123 cells, (2x 3.7V = 7.4V, sufficient for 9V lamp) run time would be about 30 minutes and the initial output would be about 130 bulb lumens.


 
Yea, I know now. Thanks. I read the chart of mdocod's wrong. Actually, I didn't read it wrong, I remembered it wrong. Just didn't want anyone to make the same mistake. Not that they would. 

I read "buy LF lamp & use 17670 I already have.

I read "buy 2 RCR123's and use P90 lamp I already have.

Well, you see how my memory is. :shrug:


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## 3mw (Jun 28, 2007)

Wingsfan23 said:


> You could also get a cell extender and use the 9 V lamps from lumens factory.


 
Is a *black nitrolon* cell extender available? If so, where can I purchase one? I was thinking about picking up a G3, but this may be a better route. Thanks


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## carrot (Jun 28, 2007)

Nope. Only in black anodized metal for the official Surefire one, and there are other metal 1-cell extenders sold by Lighthound. The black Nitrolon extender that Surefire DOES sell is too long -- it's designed to adapt the G2 into a rechargeable light running off the NiCd B90 B65 battery stick, which is effectively 3.5 batteries long.


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## BoomerSooner (Jun 28, 2007)

I could have sworn I saw a Nitrolon one cell extender on someone's site in the last few days. Damned if I can remember where now though. If I run across it I'll post it.


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## bones_708 (Jun 29, 2007)

B65 not B90


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## carrot (Jun 29, 2007)

Whoops. Thanks for the correction.


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## leukos (Jun 29, 2007)

3mw said:


> Is a *black nitrolon* cell extender available? If so, where can I purchase one? I was thinking about picking up a G3, but this may be a better route. Thanks


 
If I were to give advice, I would pick up a drop-in cree module for your G2 and run whatever battery configuration you want with it. I would pick up a G3 and purchase a couple 17500's for it and run it rechargeable without any modifications.


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## 3mw (Jul 3, 2007)

Okay guys, I think I'm going to go with AW's 3.7 lamp, protected 17670, and WF-139 charger. What do you guys think? Is their a 3.7V set up (incadescent) that is higher in quality and brighter? Will I have to modify the light in any way with AW's stuff? Thanks.


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## cernobila (Jul 3, 2007)

3mw said:


> Okay guys, I think I'm going to go with AW's 3.7 lamp, protected 17670, and WF-139 charger. What do you guys think? Is their a 3.7V set up (incadescent) that is higher in quality and brighter? Will I have to modify the light in any way with AW's stuff? Thanks.



I have this set up with my G2, it works well......


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## DM51 (Jul 3, 2007)

AW's lamp? What do you mean? AW sells batteries, not LAs.


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## dlrflyer (Jul 3, 2007)

Sure AW sells a 3.7 LA, just look at the dealer's corner.


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## DM51 (Jul 3, 2007)

Could you give a link to the relevant thread, please?


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## 3mw (Jul 4, 2007)

DM51 said:


> Could you give a link to the relevant thread, please?


 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=127715


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## FlashKat (Jul 4, 2007)

Your first post says you want it brighter. Go with a Lumens Factory HO-9 or SR-9 http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/productList.aspx?uid=76-77-82 and 2 RCR123 3.7v batteries.


3mw said:


> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=127715


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## jumpstat (Jul 4, 2007)

dlrflyer said:


> Sure AW sells a 3.7 LA, just look at the dealer's corner.


I've one of those, quality stuff. Well centered and the reflector can be modified following own preferences. However the output is a bit yellowish at 3300k


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## DM51 (Jul 4, 2007)

3mw said:


> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=127715


Thanks - I hadn't seen that. I don't want to be too rude about it, and for all I know it is a good LA, but if it is drawing 2.2A and only putting out 100 lumens, you can certainly do a very great deal better. 

As FlashKat says, try the Lumens Factory SR-9 (220 lumens) or HO-9 (320 lumens) with 2 x R123s. The HO-9 is stunningly bright in a small 2-cell light, but it pulls 1.5A which is right on the limit of what you can use with R123s. The SR-9 pulls 1.2A, which is kinder on the cells.


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## cernobila (Jul 4, 2007)

Some more figures to confuse you....

Cell configuration: 1x17670 Bulb Options:

LF D26 HO-4: 7W, 50 min, 110 lumen
G&P D26 3.7V: 8W, 45 min, 125 lumen
WE D26 3.7V: 8W, 45 min, 125 lumen
LF D26 EO-4: 9W, 40 min, 135 lumen
G&P D26 3.7V "DX 10W xenon": 10W, 30 min, 150 lumen (totally unconfirmed)

Cell configuration: 2xRCR123 Bulb Options:

LF D26 ES-9: 7W, 45 min, 115 lumen
LF D26 SR-9: 9W, 30 min, 140 lumen
LF D26 HO-9: 12W, 20 min, 200 lumen
SF P90: 9W, 30 min, 130 lumen
G&P G90: 9W, 30 min, 130 lumen
G&P D26 7.4V "DX 10W xenon": 9.5W, 50 min, 155 lumen (totally unconfirmed)
Pathfinder P90: 10W, 25 min, 160 lumen
WE D26 9V: 10W, 25 min, 165 lumen
Pila GL3 LA: 10W, 25 min, 165 lumen

Any lamp that gives you less than 30 minutes is too hard on the batteries and is not recommended. Above information thanks to "mdocod".


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## mdocod (Jul 4, 2007)

Looks like yall have this one pretty good and covered...

As for my personal touch.

I suggest the 2xRCR123 battery configuration, combined with a Wolf-Eyes D26 9V for the best trade-off between runtime, brightness, and safety in a configuration who's main gaol is to be a bright rechargable 2xCR123 sized incandecent. 

(I'm still on vacation here, but got a chance to log up their computer to tinker around here a bit, lol... I'll be home on the night of the 6th, so will be back in full throttle to continue with my usual CPF "rounds." lol...)


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## 3mw (Jul 5, 2007)

Man this is confusing...all these options:green:. Please tell me the difference that I will notice using the AW 3.7 lamp and protected 17670 compared to the RCR123 with a 9V WE or LF lamp? Brightness? Runtime? Charge time? Safety issues if any? Also, is the one of these cells (17670 or RCR123) considered more versatile than the other? I ask, because I might purchase another SF G2 (MAYBE with an LED lamp), G3 or WE Raider. Please send help quickly, because I just put my PayPal order on hold with AW and I feel really bad for any inconvience I might have caused him? Thanks again.


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## DM51 (Jul 5, 2007)

A 9v LA will be brighter than a 3.7v one. For best brightness, get AW’s R123 protected cells and a HO-9 or SR-9 from Lumens Factory. The HO-9 is very bright, will give you ~22 mins run-time and will drive your batteries hard, the SR-9 is less bright, but will give you ~30 mins run-time and your batteries will have a longer life.


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## 3mw (Jul 6, 2007)

Okay guys, the WE D26 3.7V (45min./125 lumens) and LF D26 EO-4 (40min./135 lumens) would be used with an AW 17670 and an LF SR-9 (30min/145lumens) would be used with two of AW's RCR123 cells. The runtime is better with the WE D26 3.7V and the lumens are pretty similar with the other two lamps I THINK, would I really notice a difference? I ask because I would rather have the extra runtime if the difference is not very noticeable. THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP.


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## DM51 (Jul 6, 2007)

You won't notice the difference in brightness, but the beam shapes might be different. LF tend to go for throw, WE more for flood (that is a generalisation). However if this is for a SF G2 (your post #1) you should get the LF lamp, not the WE one, as LF lamps come with the larger (removable) spring that holds the LA in place in the bezel. You will need this for a G2. The WE LA just has the smaller spring that makes the electrical contact, and without the larger spring there as well, the LA is not held properly in place.


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## cernobila (Jul 6, 2007)

I have the LF EO-4 on order for my WE Sniper, I will run it with a 18650 cell.....cant wait to play with it.......and no, the difference in output would be hard to see, however the 10 minute run time difference would be noticeable.


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## DM51 (Jul 6, 2007)

And with an 18650 you will get at least 10 mins longer run-time than with a 17670 - one advantage of the WE Sniper is that it will take the fatter cell. 

Just a word on charging/discharging - don't make a habit of letting the battery run right down to the protection circuit's low-voltage cut-off, which is there as a "safety stop" anyway, rather than something to totally rely on. Li-Ions don't like being fully discharged. And if you charge to 4.15v rather than 4.2v (95% instead of 100%) you will get many more cycles out of the cells.


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## 3mw (Jul 6, 2007)

I was just on the PTS site and noticed an optional Surefire spring for the WE lamps, does anybody know if the lamp will fit properly in a G2 if I use this part? Also, if I were to use the LF D26 EO-4 (40 min./135lumens), how long should I really run this lamp before putting the 17670 cell back on the charger? Does anybody know how long it would take to recharge an AW 17670 with his WF-139 charger? I ask because I'm wondering how many cells I should purchase. This might be a dumb question to you guys, but is it SAFE to remove a discharged cell and to throw in a fresh cell right away? If so, how many times could I get away with this before things get to HOT in a SF G2?


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## DM51 (Jul 6, 2007)

3mw said:


> I was just on the PTS site and noticed an optional Surefire spring for the WE lamps, does anybody know if the lamp will fit properly in a G2 if I use this part?


 The spring should fit OK. You might need to stretch/squeeze it a bit to get it on the LA, but that is normal.





3mw said:


> Also, if I were to use the LF D26 EO-4 (40 min./135lumens), how long should I really run this lamp before putting the 17670 cell back on the charger?


 If (as I hope) it is a protected cell, it will cut out before it gets over-discharged. The run-time until this happens will depend on the age of the cell and how it has been treated. HOWEVER, it is a good idea to monitor your cells and have a rough idea of their state of charge, and not let them run down to the low-voltage cut-off. Aim to recharge them when they drop to no lower than 3.5v at rest, and not let them go any lower than that. You will not damage them by recharging more often – say when they drop even only to 3.7v. You will further prolong their life if you limit the charge to 4.15v. You will need a voltmeter to monitor this properly, and I really do recommend you get one, even if it is a basic instrument, as long as it is reasonably accurate. Then you can do a test, measuring the cell’s voltage at rest say every 5 mins of run-time. 





3mw said:


> Does anybody know how long it would take to recharge an AW 17670 with his WF-139 charger? I ask because I'm wondering how many cells I should purchase.


 I would guess ~3 hours. It claims 450mA output current per bay, but the true figure is less than that.





3mw said:


> This might be a dumb question to you guys, but is it SAFE to remove a discharged cell and to throw in a fresh cell right away?


 Perfectly OK, as long as the cell isn’t absolutely fresh off the charger. Give it 15 mins rest after charging.





3mw said:


> If so, how many times could I get away with this before things get to HOT in a SF G2?


 The light will probably reach its maximum temperature after ~10 mins, so what you do after 40 mins shouldn’t make any difference. If you are worried about heat issues, try it and see. Run it for 5 mins, see what it feels like in your hand, then switch off and take out the cells and the LA. The temperature of the LA doesn’t matter too much, but for safety the cells should not be too hot to hold. If you have a thermometer, 140 degF is the maximum before they may suffer damage. If they are OK, put them back in and run it for another 10 mins, then check again. The G2 is plastic so conducts heat away worse than metal lights, but I have never had any overheating problems with mine.


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## 3mw (Jul 7, 2007)

leukos said:


> If I were to give advice, I would pick up a drop-in cree module for your G2 and run whatever battery configuration you want with it. I would pick up a G3 and purchase a couple 17500's for it and run it rechargeable without any modifications.


 

How would the G3 with 17500's compare ( runtime, brightness, etc.) to the G2 with a WE D26 3.7V (17670) or a LF SR-9 (two RCR123's)? I really like the size of the G2, but I also like the idea of using the same lamp and being able to throw in spare CR123 cells in a pinch.
Thanks again.


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## cernobila (Jul 7, 2007)

ok,....

G3 2x 17500 SF P90 50 min 145 lumens
G2 1x 17670 WE 3.7 45 min 125 lumens
G2 2x RCR123 LF SR-9 30 min 140 lumens

All incan lamps are designed for one voltage only, either 3.7 or 6 or 7.4 (9) Volts....

The only time you can change batteries with the same lamp is with either 9V set up, 3x CR123 or 2x 3.7 cells......Or 12/13V set up, 4x CR123 or 3x 3.7 cells.

BTW, if you used a WE Cree HO LED 3.7 - 13V lamp in you G2, you could use either 1x 3.7V cell or 2x 3V cells or 2x 3.7V cells.........


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## DM51 (Jul 7, 2007)

3mw said:


> How would the G3 with 17500's compare ( runtime, brightness, etc.) to the G2 with a WE D26 3.7V (17670) or a LF SR-9 (two RCR123's)? I really like the size of the G2, but I also like the idea of using the same lamp and being able to throw in spare CR123 cells in a pinch.
> Thanks again.


That is the great thing about a 3-cell light. You can use 3 x CR123A primaries or 2 x 18500/17500 with the same LA, and it would be a brighter LA too, with better run-time from the batts. 

Before you decide on a G3, compare it with the Wolf Eyes 9AX Raider, which has a rugged metal body and can take the fatter 18500 cells, which are 1,500mAh instead of the 17500 @ 1,100mAh. There's not a huge difference in price of Raider vs. G3, and you certainly won't have any overheating problems with the Raider. In mine I use a LF EO-9 with 2 x 18500, which gives 380 bulb lumens for ~40 mins. That is a BIG difference from the WE 3.7v or the SR-9 set-up you have been considering.


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## 3mw (Jul 7, 2007)

cernobila said:


> ok,....
> 
> G3 2x 17500 SF P90 50 min 145 lumens
> G2 1x 17670 WE 3.7 45 min 125 lumens
> ...


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## DM51 (Jul 7, 2007)

3mw said:


> ok,....
> 
> G3 2x 17500 SF P90 50 min 145 lumens
> G2 1x 17670 WE 3.7 45 min 125 lumens
> ...


Did you read my post #41 before posting this?


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## cernobila (Jul 7, 2007)

3mw said:


> cernobila said:
> 
> 
> > ok,....
> ...


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## 3mw (Jul 7, 2007)

SORRY DM51, some how I missed it. Maybe I was typing my reply to cernobila and your reply was posted while I was doing that. THANKS for all the help DM51.


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## leukos (Jul 7, 2007)

DM51 said:


> There's not a huge difference in price of Raider vs. G3, and you certainly won't have any overheating problems with the Raider.


There are no overheating issues with the G3.


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## defusion (Jul 7, 2007)

leukos said:


> There are no overheating issues with the G3.


only if you decide to go with LED drop-ins will internal heat become an issue.
but even when you just want incan, the wolf eyes raider has a big advantage in that it accepts 18500 cells AND is made out of a more rugged material.


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## 3mw (Jul 10, 2007)

G2: 2 X RCR123, SF P90, 30 minutes, 130 lumens
G3: 2 X 17500, SF P90, 50 minutes, 145 lumens

I read that manufacturers measure lumens using different methods, so I was wondering if the above readings would be equal to Surefire Lumens? If so, how does the SF P90 compare to the LF HO-9 in the G2 with two RCR123? More side spill maybe and less throw? Safe or border line safe?


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## DM51 (Jul 10, 2007)

Those are the figures from mdocod's_incan_guide, so you can compare the P90 directly with the HO-9. The HO-9 is very much brighter but it will really push R123s hard. Spectacular, but those cells may not live very long. The P90 is more comparable to the SR-9 - both of these are safer with R123s and your cells will last longer.


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