# Aircraft landing lights



## batman

Hey everyone,

Does anyone know just how many lumens those aircraft landing lights are on the 737s,747s, etc? 
batman


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## XeRay

batman said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Does anyone know just how many lumens those aircraft landing lights are on the 737s,747s, etc?
> batman


 
either 450 or 600 watt. and ~ 5000 or 7000 or so lumens respectively.


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## ernsanada

We use Q4681 Bulbs.

I think most of the Commercial Aircraft use these.

Q4681/28V/450W USA bulb specifications:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

category: HALOGEN 
volt: 28 
amp: 16.1 
watt: 450 
base: Screw Terminals 
glass: PAR46 
filament: C6 
fil.res.: 1.74 ohm 
m.o.l.: 4.12 inch (104MM) 
i.lumens: 3900000 
cp: 310000 
d.hours: 50 

notes: 

aircraft lamp
ba:15x9
landing lamp


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## windstrings

XeRay said:


> either 450 or 600 watt. and ~ 5000 or 7000 or so lumens respectively.



Wow.. I wonder why they dont use HID bulbs.... They must have tons of wattage to spare.... thats alot of stinkin wattage to only get 7000 lumens.

I guess they would only need about 100 watts HID to do the same job?

I guess HIDs are newer than I thought.


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## Orbit

747's 737's and most other commercial airliners do use HID. What they use exaclty i can't tell you, but search google i'm sure you'll come up with something.


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## Starlight

We have hand held spotlights using the Q4559X. It is rated at 600W, 28v and 770,000 CP. It's called the Larry12k.


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## ernsanada

Starlight said:


> We have hand held spotlights using the Q4559X. It is rated at 600W, 28v and 770,000 CP. It's called the Larry12k.



We use the Q4559X on nose taxi lights and nose landing lights.


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## XeRay

Orbit said:


> 747's 737's and most other commercial airliners do use HID. What they use exaclty i can't tell you, but search google i'm sure you'll come up with something.


 
Boeing and Airbus have only VERY recently begun to use HID on factory new aircraft. They are using 50 watt HID maximum so far. 

The vast majority of large commercial aircraft still use incandescents. The Canadair CRJ-700 series commuter jets are the only ones using HID for a few years.

35 watt HID is equal to 200-250 watt incan. 50 watt HID is about equal to 450 watt incan. in terms of lumens. A 75 watt HID will outperform (lumens) a 600 watt incan with same reflector size.

Goodrich is the primary supplier at this point, we are working on that.

Aviation is very slow to move into new technology because of the time and cost involved to TSO the product and to change the "Type Certificate" in new manufacturing. Also STC's are time consuming and expensive as well for these aircraft. For airliners DO-160 testing which is very expensive and takes a lot of time would be required.


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## scott.cr

ernsanada said:


> glass: PAR46



FWIW, you can calculate the diameter of the sealed beam assembly by looking at its "PAR" number... simply divide by eight. So a PAR46 would be 5.75 inches. The largest the PARs come in, AFAIK, is PAR64 and I've seen the commonly-available ones as high as 600 watts. Lamp lifespan is short, so I suspect these filaments are being driven pretty hard. Most run on aircraft voltages of 28 volts, but I've seen 500 watt versions in 12 volt.

I actually have two of the 500 watt PAR56s on my workbench. Once I'm done with my list of existing projects, I want to turn them into auxillary lights for the wife's car.


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## larryk

XeRay said:


> Boeing and Airbus have only VERY recently begun to use HID on factory new aircraft. They are using 50 watt HID maximum so far.
> 
> The vast majority of large commercial aircraft still use incandescents. The Canadair CRJ-700 series commuter jets are the only ones using HID for a few years.
> 
> 35 watt HID is equal to 200-250 watt incan. 50 watt HID is about equal to 450 watt incan. in terms of lumens. A 75 watt HID will outperform (lumens) a 600 watt incan with same reflector size.
> 
> Goodrich is the primary supplier at this point, we are working on that.
> 
> Aviation is very slow to move into new technology because of the time and cost involved to TSO the product and to change the "Type Certificate" in new manufacturing. Also STC's are time consuming and expensive as well for these aircraft. For airliners DO-160 testing which is very expensive and takes a lot of time would be required.



I own the Barnburner and it is a great spotlight and I am very happy with it, but my larryK14 using a slightly overdriven 600 watt Q4559X lamp produces twice the lumens of my Barnburner. Maybe it's because of the 8 inch reflector ?


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## XeRay

larryk said:


> I own the Barnburner and it is a great spotlight and I am very happy with it, but my larryK14 using a slightly overdriven 600 watt Q4559X lamp produces twice the lumens of my Barnburner. Maybe it's because of the 8 inch reflector ?


 
the lumens of a 600 watt incan are about 8000 or so. The par 64 reflector size will improve the efficiency quite a bit though. You must be measuring lux or something other than lumens. Lumens is the total light being produced, if using a light meter somewhere in the beam you are not measuring lumens.


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## larryk

I was using a ceiling bounce test.


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## Meduza

scott.cr said:


> FWIW, you can calculate the diameter of the sealed beam assembly by looking at its "PAR" number... simply divide by eight. So a PAR46 would be 5.75 inches. The largest the PARs come in, AFAIK, is PAR64 and I've seen the commonly-available ones as high as 600 watts. Lamp lifespan is short, so I suspect these filaments are being driven pretty hard. Most run on aircraft voltages of 28 volts, but I've seen 500 watt versions in 12 volt.



Just got to make the little comment that this is just about the 28v ACL's, Stage Par64 is aviable up to 1200w commonly...


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## Lurveleven

XeRay said:


> 35 watt HID is equal to 200-250 watt incan. 50 watt HID is about equal to 450 watt incan. in terms of lumens. A 75 watt HID will outperform (lumens) a 600 watt incan with same reflector size.


 
For incans used in aircrafts, your numbers may be correct, but for other incans they are not. Having a quick look in the Osram cataloge:

HLX 64669
590 Watt
21500 lumens

HLX 64655
250 Watt
10000 lumens

Sigbjoern


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## waynejitsu

I had one wired on a custom car years ago. I have no idea the type or any specs, but when it came on, you could see ANYTHING!!

I used it as a "deterent".
When oncoming traffic would not use their low beams, just a split seconf flick of this light and they knew they didnot want to play "headlight chicken", lol!

Also used in the rear. When youuger, we went to parties way out on dirt roads and backing up became a problem with the little stock lights..., the landing light did the trick..., just one in front and one in the back


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## Busa Rush

I was looking at landing lights too.. but settled on modding a lightforce 240 by fitting a 20 amp switch on the handle.. and using a 24v 250w HLX 64655.. have now got a 300w bulb in it.. I use it for general use in the cab of my truck.. looking for trailers at night and for those people that won't dipp their headlights ! i never run it for very long periods.. does get rather warm  

link to some beamshots http://community.webshots.com/album/552795137nGSSCi

was done with one hand holding the lamp and one holding the camera.. sat in the cab.. have not been messed about with all as i took them.. first time i took pics at night.. sorry if i hijacked your thread a bit there...

cheers

Dave.c


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## LuxLuthor

I own a MadMaxabeam Larry14K clone using the GE 600 watt Q4559X (this is a nice writeup on this bulb) & 24 Sub-C Elite 4500 cells with about 32.35V hot off the charger, resting is about 31.85V 

I have compared it numerous ways to my Barn Burner, including recently shinging both at a lighthouse about 2 miles away, and aiming both straight up in the sky and looked at both from a couple blocks away.

The GE Q4559X setup totally blows away the BB, including putting a brighter, larger spot on the lighthouse....and a mega-bright beam shooting straight up. The problem with it quite honestly is that the GE Q4559X setup is so damn bright up close (within 150 feet) with all the spill from that sealed bulb...that it just scares the eebie-jeebies out of everyone who gets near it....including me. LOL! It seems like a 747 is about to land in your driveway!!!

For a practical outside spotlight, I greatly prefer the focussed, defined BB light. A good way to compare the two is using an analogy of Mac's (or MadMaxabeam's) Torch with its stippled reflector wide beam, to a Mag85 with a FiveMega 2" Deep Reflector SMO's focussed beam (or maybe a 3" reflector which I don't have yet).


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## BVH

Geeze, Lux, now I GOTTA have one. Mad Max, sent you a PM a while ago. Lux, does your arm get thrown back when you light it off? What kind of run time do you get until significant dimming?


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## LuxLuthor

BVH said:


> Geeze, Lux, now I GOTTA have one. Mad Max, sent you a PM a while ago. Lux, does your arm get thrown back when you light it off?



LOL! Yeah, I have it in a sling from last night.:lolsign:

It's funny now when I see all these puny Cessna planes flying over the Long Island Sound at night with their dinky lights....I don't ever dare shine either the BB or this Larry14K up in the air when any planes are anywhere in view. Not only would it be stupid, and probably dangerous, but they might assume a 747 is somewhere around it.


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## windstrings

You'll have to get you a nice shoulder pad to guard against the kick.....

Oh.. and some good tall boots too!.... LOL!


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## windstrings

BVH said:


> Geeze, Lux, now I GOTTA have one. Mad Max, sent you a PM a while ago. Lux, does your arm get thrown back when you light it off? What kind of run time do you get until significant dimming?



I still want LiIon..... I wonder what that would set you back and what is the final volt configuration?.. and an easy way to charge it "without" having to take 20 batteries out and figure out how to get them all charged at once "evenly" with multiple battery chargers.... geeze.. what a project!.... maybe one golf cart battery would be smarter...... "and lighter!" 


They only weigh 63 lbs a piece! :lolsign:


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## BVH

I think even with the Safion (sp?) and I forget what other brand of high discharge rate Li-ons, in this 28 Volt and very high 22 Amp current flow environment, the risk of cell imbalance and possible resulting "rapid vent with flame" and over-discharge cell damage is too high for me to use them. In a year or so, with Lithium technology moving forward, I might think about upgrading the pack.


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## frogs3

Dear Fellow Flashaholics,

When I see that LuxLuthor, Windstrings and BVH are all in agreement about something, a GROUP BUY can't be far behind. Short of a tank light (complete with the tank for us purists), I NEED the NEXT STEP. From the descriptions, these babies are like tractor beams, and I will FIND a place to need one, trust me.

So what is the next step?

-Harvey K.


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## BVH

Don't forget about Mtbkndad dad. We need his buy-in too. Hmmm, well Lux already has one. I'm in the process of seeing if I can get one and Windy? Not sure where he stands. (Well, Texas, I expect) and Mtbkndad is probably off riding in the dark hills of SoCal. Bet he could use one if it came with a solid handlebar mount! He would just need the new TFA 28V22AP generator affixed to his front fork for power. Might make pedaling a little more difficult, though.


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## NewBie

In my line of work, I often use the GE Q4559X for evaluating AR coatings and reflectivity, I call it my portable sun. It does a pretty decent job at producing a decent amount of light to evaluate things under.

If you are interested in one of these, they only cost 33.44 from here:
http://www.skygeek.com/gesealbeamqu1.html

Page 7 has a few bits of information on the bulb:
http://www.gelighting.com/na/busine...ture_library/catalogs/downloads/msb_43-52.pdf

Info on the Q4681 can be found on page 18 here:
http://www.gelighting.com/na/busine...re_library/catalogs/downloads/msb_catalog.pdf


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## BVH

Newbie, what type of fixture holds your lamp and what are you using for a PS? Your source may be the place I got my lamps some time ago. I remember myself and others commenting that the terminals looked as though the lamp was well used - lots of discoloration on them but it did come in a sealed box. Do yours look this way?


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## LuxLuthor

No soup for Windy. Plus these lights weigh about 7 pounds, so because these are "Lights for Men" he doesn't get one! :lolsign:

About the batteries....these 24 cells are all packed up with the black vinyl around them....actually broken into two 12 packs, so you can easily just charge a single 12-pack with one of those blue universal chargers at a time, or I happen to have two of them, so I charge both 12 packs with them at the same time. There is another connection for all 24 batteries that would fit a 24 cell Triton type charger all charging together, but I don't have one of those. It is as easy to charge this as any of my plug-in lights, as the charging plugs are external.

There is really no good reason for this flame thrower monster to deal with the extra risks and expense of Lithium cells. Like I said, this is not of the practical nature as is the XeRay or Polarion, etc. (did I just say that!). These Larry14K lights are for their shock effect, so keeping it cheaper is smarter. Even still this is a great combination of those batteries and light model.



NewBie said:


> It does a pretty decent job at producing a decent amount of light to evaluate things under.


Man, if you call this a "pretty decent job," I'm wondering what the heck you consider would do a really great job.


.


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## windstrings

BVH said:


> Not sure where he stands. (Well, Texas, I expect)



Well Lux may talk me into one...... As long as charging them isn't a nightmare.... and I do have a 24 V fleet charger. :laughing:

I do need something better for my frog gigging expeditions... opps sorry frogs3!

They will already be cooked when I gig them! LOL!

Also, another fine use is for body shops to cure their paint jobs.. turn on the light and walk around the car two times and thier done! They have to walk fast as to not bubble the metal.... I mean the paint.....

The only way I will get one is if I can figure out a way to make it just a tad brighter than Lux's though..... maybe tweak the ballast a bit? 

LOL!.. I had to look real close.. I'm pretty sure thats not the middle finger on that little guy!


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## BVH

Windy (corrected), what's this "ballast" thing your talking about? You got HID on the brain or maybe its the wrong thread? hmmmm? We're talking Aviation stuff here. Now you could add one extra battery if you want one-up Lux and risk your QX, but its fun living on the edge!


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## tvodrd

Willem/ShortArc gave me an LA that looks to be XSA and is rated to be 750W! He said he bought it from lotsalumens who found it on ebay. The note in the package said "Do something with it or "forward it to someone who can within one year!" Sorry for no pics, but the sucker has the potential of making into a short-run, handheld that could make RA envious!  I may forward it to RA who may have the EE-talent to make it happen, but not until meeting up with WayneY next week, and asking his opinion. :shrug:

Larry


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## Sway

The Sleeper thread has some info on landing lights and a few pics, sorry about the adds in some of them they were hosted on a pay site awile back.

Later
Kelly


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## TigerhawkT3

LarryK12s are sweet. I have one running off Titanium RC packs, and I'm considering buying a 24-cell Elite4500 pack, a Triton2 to charge it, and a PS for the Triton2. I haven't gone ahead with it yet because that would be a big bundle of money!

LuxLuthor, do you have pics of your setup? Beamshots? If you don't mind revealing it, how much did it cost you?


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## LuxLuthor

That Sleeper thread that Sway posted has images with first post that is a good way to see this compared to other lights. I'm pretty sure his second pix is not using the BB, but you get the idea by looking at the 3rd image.



TigerhawkT3 said:


> LuxLuthor, do you have pics of your setup? Beamshots? If you don't mind revealing it, how much did it cost you?


Tigerhawk, I don't want to give the price as I don't have MadMaxabeam's permission to do so....but you can try contacting him by PM. Suffice it to say that I considered the price a real bargain for all the features this has...from the best bulb, those batteries, nice switch with protective metal flip cover, easy round screw-out fuse holder on the side, and multiple charging setups (2x12 or 1x24 cells) The whole light weighs about 7 lbs on my bathroom scale...and I got an extra GE Q4559X bulb which very easy to replace.

Same concern about posting pictures of it....I should find out from him if that is ok...but the 24 pack fits well inside the back end of the Harbor Freight gray colored clone. With the option of using the two connectors going into each separate 12-pack of cells, I can just use two of those cheap, blue "universal" (9.6-18V) smart chargers at the same time, and save the trouble and expense of the Triton charger setup.



BVH said:


> Lux, what's this "ballast" thing your talking about? You got HID on the brain or maybe its the wrong thread? hmmmm? We're talking Aviation stuff here. Now you could add one extra battery if you want one-up Lux and risk your QX, but its fun living on the edge!


BVH, that is one of many reasons why Windy should not have this light...he can't tell the difference between a HID with a ballast, and a sealed Incandescent that runs strictly off batteries. I never mentioned a ballast. I'm not sure how much more voltage you can pump into these bulbs before a BIG INSTAFLASH...but it is rated at 28V, but like I said earlier the resting voltage when I start using it is about 31.85V - 32V.

I used it with my BB, each running about 20 minutes shining out into Long Island Sound about 10 days ago, along the shore, and over towards Fisher's Island, and they were both going strong. Then I saw a boat far off in the distance coming towards me with a puny spotlight trained on my position, which I'm sure I was washing out with mine.

After a couple more minutes, I figure I better pack it in, as it was likely a U.S. Coast Guard boat coming to investigate who the heck was lighting up the waterways. The U.S. Submarine base is up the Thames River, where they come and go sometimes at night...so who knows what they thought might have been going on.



.


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## BVH

I think I read somewhere here that a 3 Volt overdrive with hi-amp cells was just about the limit.


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## windstrings

BVH said:


> Lux, what's this "ballast" thing your talking about? You got HID on the brain or maybe its the wrong thread? hmmmm? We're talking Aviation stuff here. Now you could add one extra battery if you want one-up Lux and risk your QX, but its fun living on the edge!



YOu had me confused "some more"... by addressing lux.. I was the one who mentioned the ballast.. your right.. I have HID on the brain.. I forgot these don't have that.... instead they are steak cookers.


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## BVH

I had me confused for a moment. I corrected my error.


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## mtbkndad

The landing light lights like the LarryK and Sleeper are really amazing.
I think part of the confusion when determining brightness based on numbers is that the numbers generally refer to bulb lumens.

With sealed beam landing lights, the light is the bulb reflector and all in one sealed package therefore the numbers would be pretty accurate.
With an HID like the Barn Burner there is substantial light loss by the time the bulb's light is reflected out of the front of the light.

I REALLY need to make or get one of those landing light spotlight setups.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH

Yes, Mtbkndad, it will be fun to use one in our next shootout - even though its not an HID! I'm working on it now.


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## TITAN1833

CRHIST, I was looking for a wolf eyes boxer,24w 1300 lumens .better look again.me think.


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## bxstylez

LuxLuthor said:


> ...I saw a boat far off in the distance coming towards me with a puny spotlight trained on my position, which I'm sure I was washing out with mine.
> 
> After a couple more minutes, I figure I better pack it in, as it was likely a U.S. Coast Guard boat coming to investigate who the heck was lighting up the waterways. The U.S. Submarine base is up the Thames River, where they come and go sometimes at night...so who knows what they thought might have been going on.


 
:lolsign:


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## windstrings

TITAN1833 said:


> CRHIST, I was looking for a wolf eyes boxer,24w 1300 lumens .better look again.me think.



IN that price range, I would go for the X990 at 3200 lumens, unless your wanting to get a modded one like these others.


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## frogs3

*Re: Aircraft landing lights -- I NEED ONE*



TigerhawkT3 said:


> LarryK12s are sweet. I have one running off Titanium RC packs, and I'm considering buying a 24-cell Elite4500 pack, a Triton2 to charge it, and a PS for the Triton2. I haven't gone ahead with it yet because that would be a big bundle of money!
> 
> Dear TigerhawkT3 & Anyone else who can educate me,
> 
> I am new to this area of insane lights, and need some information about what an Elite4500 pack and Triton2 are. I think I can find at least a 600 w bulb, and maybe a 750 if I take enough drugs. The whole idea is just too sweet, until the tank is delivered.
> 
> BTW, Windy, my undercover Frogman knows your every move, and is tuned into the spectrum of your XeRay 50, so remember the rule of the wild: brightly colored -- no touch. Easier to see with 12K lumens and safer too.
> 
> CROAK,
> 
> Harvey K.


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## BVH

Frogs3, the Elite 4500's are very high output sub-C cells. Probably the best for the needed amperage (22 Amps @ 28 Volts) of the Larrk14. Go to the website below at the bottom of the page.

cheapbatterypacks.com/main.asp?sid=5610&pgid=loosecells

The lamp that I think is best in the Larryk14 is the GE Q4559X. Its 600 Watts (again, at 28 Volts). There are 1000 Watt aircraft landing lights also but I believe they are more "flood" than the "spot" of the QX. The forementioned are very relative terms. The "spot" is a huge wall of light that is a little more focused than the "huger" wall of light of the 1000 Watt. Oh, yes, the QX is Halogen, the non-QX is not. Neither are really "spots". Plus, a larger battery pack or series of packs would be needed for the higher Wattage and it probably would not fit in the light. (Someone chime in here if I off on this)

The Triton is a smart charger capable of charging Sealed Lead acid batteries (car-type), Lithium Ion (up to 4 cell packs), Nimh and Nicads packs of up to 24 cells. They cost about $100 to 125 last I knew. I think there are now two Tritons, one less featured and one more featured.

If you haven't read the original thread:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=111545&highlight=q4559x


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## windstrings

BVH said:


> Frogs3, the Elite 4500's are very high output sub-C cells.



Humm.. thier all sold out.. I wonder why..... Lux??????

man, I've been feeling so schitzo lately...... humm...... I wonder why?... Lux????


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## LuxLuthor

-edit-


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## larryk

The 4559 has a better spot than the Q4559X but the 4559 is not quite as bright as the Q4559X. Also the Q4559X draws less current with less voltage sag than the 4559 for some reason. My light holds at 29.5 volts under load. Don't let that wall of light fool you. These lamps will still throw. It just fools you because it's throwing such a large spot.


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## LuxLuthor

larryk said:


> The 4559 has a better spot than the Q4559X but the 4559 is not quite as bright as the Q4559X. Also the Q4559X draws less current with less voltage sag than the 4559 for some reason. My light holds at 29.5 volts under load. Don't let that wall of light fool you. These lamps will still throw. It just fools you because it's throwing such a large spot.



Yeah, like my shining it at the Lighthouse example above, the Larry14K dramatically outthrew the Barn Burner which was about 2 miles away...although both lit it up.

It's amazing to read from this article that the 4559 is 50-60 years old. As that articles says: "[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Q4559X (halogen version) provides 25% more light output and lasts 4 times longer than the 4559."[/font]


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## frogs3

Imagine my annoyance to find those cells sold out! Just to frustrate me, I'm sure.

There has got to be an easier way to get 30 v. steady than a zillion 1.2 v cells in series. We have to think about this from a fresh perspective. Does anyone make a higher voltage cell without more complexity and weight?

BTW, what do you all use to hold all those cells together and wire them, not to speak of a switch and plug for the charger?

Thanks again for the info,

Harvey K.


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## windstrings

frogs3 said:


> Imagine my annoyance to find those cells sold out! Just to frustrate me, I'm sure.
> 
> There has got to be an easier way to get 30 v. steady than a zillion 1.2 v cells in series. We have to think about this from a fresh perspective. Does anyone make a higher voltage cell without more complexity and weight?
> 
> BTW, what do you all use to hold all those cells together and wire them, not to speak of a switch and plug for the charger?
> 
> Thanks again for the info,
> 
> Harvey K.



Don't worry mate.. these could be even better! 6000mah!
and cheaper! 3 lot $13.97 per Pk.
I assume they will crank the amps as good as 4500mah sub C cells...


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## BVH

I only have the Triton and Power Supply because it came as part of my USL purchase a while back. I'll probably still use the breakout tabs to charge 12 at a time. If 29.5 Volts is held, thats good enough for a little overdrive. Windy, chances are the 6000 mah C cells probably don't provide the hi amp flow that the Sub C's do. The hi-flo cells usually have a slightly different internal makeup.


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## ksbman

I work on 737, 757, 767, 777, and MD80 at American Airlines, and have worked F100, A300, DC10, MD11, and 747 (but not for several years), I haven't seen an HID yet for landing lights. 

All use 4559X for landing lights except for the MD80 nose light. It uses the 4557, a two position light with 400w on low and 1000w on high.

4554 are usually used for runway turn-off lights and 4631 and 4632 are wing scan and nacell lights.

The 777 uses a different style lamp for the wing scan light, but I cant remember the P/N right now.


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## DCarlton

Ok a little 747 fact here.

The landing lights have a high and low setting, but the switches just have the off and on option for each of the four landing lights.

When the gear is down you get full volts to the lamp, when the gear is up the the inputs to the stepdown transformers are switched to different primary windings causing a drop in secondary voltage supplied to the lamp.

My little $.05 not really relevant to this thread, but a 747 was mentioned I could not help myself.

A380 Is going to use HID for exterior white lighting, thats if a customer ever gets one!


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## ernsanada

ksbman said:


> I work on 737, 757, 767, 777, and MD80 at American Airlines, and have worked F100, A300, DC10, MD11, and 747 (but not for several years), I haven't seen an HID yet for landing lights.
> 
> All use 4559X for landing lights except for the MD80 nose light. It uses the 4557, a two position light with 400w on low and 1000w on high.
> 
> 4554 are usually used for runway turn-off lights and 4631 and 4632 are wing scan and nacell lights.
> 
> The 777 uses a different style lamp for the wing scan light, but I cant remember the P/N right now.



What's the part number you use on rear nav light and wing tip nav lights? Do all the aircraft you mention use the same bulbs?

I work for American Eagle and we use 1683's for the rear nav light and A4174-24's for the wing tip nav bulbs.


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## DCarlton

Hello

Light usage from what I can remember is as follows on our 747-400:

Wing/Tail Nav 1970X
Tail Logo/Wing Scan Q4631
Runway turnoff/Taxi 4551
Cargo loading area illumination 4571

Cheers

Dan


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## XeRay

ksbman said:


> I work on 737, 757, 767, 777, and MD80 at American Airlines, and have worked F100, A300, DC10, MD11, and 747 (but not for several years), I haven't seen an HID yet for landing lights.
> 
> All use 4559X for landing lights except for the MD80 nose light. It uses the 4557, a two position light with 400w on low and 1000w on high.
> 
> 4554 are usually used for runway turn-off lights and 4631 and 4632 are wing scan and nacell lights.
> 
> The 777 uses a different style lamp for the wing scan light, but I cant remember the P/N right now.


 
The CRJ's smaller regional jets made by Canadair (Bombardier) have used 35 watt HID for about 5 years or so. The newest Boeings and new Airbus will as well. They will be using 50 watt HID.


----------



## BVH

Thanks Ksbman, DCarlton and Ernsanada for the info. I enjoy knowing little facts like this. Of course, I love anything to do with aviation.


----------



## frogs3

*Re: Aircraft landing lights FOR EVERYONE!!*

All of this information is neato, but it doesn't get the 14K lumen light built any faster. We must remain tuned into this insane goal of a hand-carryable landing light with useful runtime that will surely get at least one of us into trouble with the law since the law is now defined however someone wants to define it. But I digress. Absolutem.

I looked at the site for Windy's batteries, but don't know anything about one type versus the other, let alone how to keep 24 of them tied together securely and charged.

Then I came up with a very mischievous idea: what about an HID light of, say 100 or better still 125 watts, since these are MUCH more effective lumen generators, and put that bulb, if it exists, into an 8'' reflector or more. Add a battery just a bit bigger than the one in the XeVision BB with a suitable ballast...soon we will redefine BB to mean BIG BANG, I mean primordial intergalactic tractor beams in your hot little hand. Why are we killing ourselves fighting with fifty year old technology when with a little engineering data from (I won't say the name), this could really be a SUPER item, both technically and commercially. And you know why I said that.

Any thoughts about this approach? Is there a bulb available for this application? Are we Flashaholics or are we normal?

=Harvey K., in dimly lit Pennsylvania


----------



## windstrings

*Re: Aircraft landing lights FOR EVERYONE!!*



frogs3 said:


> All of this information is neato, but it doesn't get the 14K lumen light built any faster. We must remain tuned into this insane goal of a hand-carryable landing light with useful runtime that will surely get at least one of us into trouble with the law since the law is now defined however someone wants to define it. But I digress. Absolutem.
> 
> I looked at the site for Windy's batteries, but don't know anything about one type versus the other, let alone how to keep 24 of them tied together securely and charged.
> 
> Then I came up with a very mischievous idea: what about an HID light of, say 100 or better still 125 watts, since these are MUCH more effective lumen generators, and put that bulb, if it exists, into an 8'' reflector or more. Add a battery just a bit bigger than the one in the XeVision BB with a suitable ballast...soon we will redefine BB to mean BIG BANG, I mean primordial intergalactic tractor beams in your hot little hand. Why are we killing ourselves fighting with fifty year old technology when with a little engineering data from (I won't say the name), this could really be a SUPER item, both technically and commercially. And you know why I said that.
> 
> Any thoughts about this approach? Is there a bulb available for this application? Are we Flashaholics or are we normal?
> 
> =Harvey K., in dimly lit Pennsylvania



you know the answer to that... a "flashaholic takes another drink when he doesn't need one!

I think the objective is to get a tremendous amount of light for little cost.
To go HID you will have heat issues and the cost of ballast that are not a consideration with simple incandesants.
No high voltage..... just heat and light!

As technology improves, so does the price to manipulate it.
Dan has already mentioned that the DL-50 bulb will do more than 75 watts but heat is the big enemy and....again batteries and ballast to run it.

If you want high quality batteries and little hassle, it raises the price.

this is just a fun project...and could develop into a viable product, but like you say.... there is tremedous power used to power this little toy.

Its kinda fun to think you can get brighter than the BB.... of course you don't get the professional quality and compactness without a dear price because technology has to jump.

So far, I haven't invested the trouble to build one either, but as others do, they will pave the path and make it easier for others to follow. Some folks are actually building some for folks... like "Larry" but I don't know if its worth their while or not.... I think the whole project is in sort of a beta test mode right now. Its fun to be involved in building something from the ground up, or at least have some input.

I think you will see more and more experiments that will surprise you with lights. Its what makes the free world great!.... taking great products and recreating them into better!


----------



## frogs3

Dear Windy,

There was a time not so long ago that HID automotive lights were only on high-zoot luxury automobiles, but their prices have dropped dramatically. I guess my question was basically, can we cause the same thing to occur in this application? Believe me, I will take 14 thousand lumens by any technology that works, if I can make it happen at all. I just wonder about reducing the cost of operation by a lot to offset the initial cost of materials, and there is the factor of "several" of us lunatics trying this out, or perhaps paying "up front money" to a modder with the skills to do it better and safer in bulk. My wife would be ticked off if I burned down the house, or maybe the neighborhood...very picky that way.

I am depressed 'cause I have only 8000 lumens and I want more. LarryK are you listening to our pain? 

I'm going to post a sign: "Will work for 14kilolumens".

=Croak


----------



## LuxLuthor

ksbman said:


> I work on 737, 757, 767, 777, and MD80 at American Airlines, and have worked F100, A300, DC10, MD11, and 747 (but not for several years), I haven't seen an HID yet for landing lights.
> 
> All use 4559X for landing lights except for the MD80 nose light. It uses the 4557, a two position light with 400w on low and 1000w on high.
> 
> 4554 are usually used for runway turn-off lights and 4631 and 4632 are wing scan and nacell lights.
> 
> The 777 uses a different style lamp for the wing scan light, but I cant remember the P/N right now.



Keith are those the GE *Q*4559X Halogen that I linked to that you mention as just 4559X ? I just don't know if there are 3 models (Q4559X, 4559X, & 4559). 

I wonder how much difference there is with that 4557 bulb on the 1000W setting, as compared to this Q4559X which does a great job with throw the way its sealed reflector was designed.

Harvey/Windy, I don't think you can just throw out a Thomas "generic" no name brand C size battery without giving the amp and overall features before saying it would work for this high current demand application. In addition C cells are 25x50mm vs. Sub-C size are 23x43mm, so you would not be able to fit as many in this cheap Harbor Lite clone.

I'm sure those 4500 Elite cells will be back in stock...and cheapbatterypacks.com soldiers them together for you in the formation you specify. The setup that MadMaxabeam made uses on set of wires with the Deans connector for all 24 cells (Triton), or two similar to the JST type of connectors for each 12 pack (Using two of the cheapo smart chargers) on that same pagelink.

It's one of those nice, coastal foggy nights here (some winter cold weather !!), and I was out with two friends playing with the Larry14, 15M Candelpower generics, BB, XeRay 50W, X990, Torch, and a multitude of 1185, 1111, 1331, 1164, 1166 Maglite Mods. 

They are all wonderful..and seem like light sabers in the fog. We were out on an abandoned road...and shining the Larry14 at our car headlights, you couldn't see them with the Larry14K eating the cars output for lunch. They thought i was crazy when I told them to bring sunglasses to use at night.


----------



## TigerhawkT3

LuxLuthor said:


> That Sleeper thread that Sway posted has images with first post that is a good way to see this compared to other lights. I'm pretty sure his second pix is not using the BB, but you get the idea by looking at the 3rd image.
> 
> 
> Tigerhawk, I don't want to give the price as I don't have MadMaxabeam's permission to do so....but you can try contacting him by PM. Suffice it to say that I considered the price a real bargain for all the features this has...from the best bulb, those batteries, nice switch with protective metal flip cover, easy round screw-out fuse holder on the side, and multiple charging setups (2x12 or 1x24 cells) The whole light weighs about 7 lbs on my bathroom scale...and I got an extra GE Q4559X bulb which very easy to replace.
> 
> Same concern about posting pictures of it....I should find out from him if that is ok...but the 24 pack fits well inside the back end of the Harbor Freight gray colored clone. With the option of using the two connectors going into each separate 12-pack of cells, I can just use two of those cheap, blue "universal" (9.6-18V) smart chargers at the same time, and save the trouble and expense of the Triton charger setup.
> 
> ...


How strange that you can't even post pics or beamshots. Could you at least tell me what the beam is like? I'm curious because although you've mentioned elsewhere that you didn't like the oblong beam of my LK12, yours seems to use the exact same lamp. :thinking:

I guess I'll PM MadMaxabeam.


----------



## windstrings

LuxLuthor said:


> Keith are those the GE *Q*4559X Halogen that I linked to that you mention as just 4559X ? I just don't know if there are 3 models (Q4559X, 4559X, & 4559).
> 
> I wonder how much difference there is with that 4557 bulb on the 1000W setting, as compared to this Q4559X which does a great job with throw the way its sealed reflector was designed.
> 
> Harvey/Windy, I don't think you can just throw out a Thomas "generic" no name brand C size battery without giving the amp and overall features before saying it would work for this high current demand application. In addition C cells are 25x50mm vs. Sub-C size are 23x43mm, so you would not be able to fit as many in this cheap Harbor Lite clone.
> 
> I'm sure those 4500 Elite cells will be back in stock...and cheapbatterypacks.com soldiers them together for you in the formation you specify. The setup that MadMaxabeam made uses on set of wires with the Deans connector for all 24 cells (Triton), or two similar to the JST type of connectors for each 12 pack (Using two of the cheapo smart chargers) on that same pagelink.
> 
> It's one of those nice, coastal foggy nights here (some winter cold weather !!), and I was out with two friends playing with the Larry14, 15M Candelpower generics, BB, XeRay 50W, X990, Torch, and a multitude of 1185, 1111, 1331, 1164, 1166 Maglite Mods.
> 
> They are all wonderful..and seem like light sabers in the fog. We were out on an abandoned road...and shining the Larry14 at our car headlights, you couldn't see them with the Larry14K eating the cars output for lunch. They thought i was crazy when I told them to bring sunglasses to use at night.



Yea.. I would find out the amps before purchase... but likely thier pretty good.


----------



## frogs3

LL, you give me hope to make it through the night. BTW, where are you that it is foggy? I'm just north of Philadelphia, PA and the rain finally stopped, and it is like beach weather here, nearly 60º this afternoon. Ridiculous for January.

Your fun in the fog made me jealous. I will read that website very closely again when the batteries are available, and maybe join you for a game of light sabers. Too bad Windy is in Texas, or we could have a REAL party.

Thanks again for the references.

-Your Frog


----------



## LuxLuthor

TigerhawkT3 said:


> How strange that you can't even post pics or beamshots. Could you at least tell me what the beam is like? I'm curious because although you've mentioned elsewhere that you didn't like the oblong beam of my LK12, yours seems to use the exact same lamp. :thinking:
> 
> I guess I'll PM MadMaxabeam.



I just don't have his permission...and am not sure he wants me to post detailed images of his work....so I'm waiting on a PM from him. My criticism of your light is how it looks overall, and the poor quality of your beamshot which I quoted below. I can just say that my white wall beam does not look anything like this one that you posted in your thread. Sorry.

My light uses the GE, where you said you are using the Sylvania. I don't know the difference between the two...just pointing that out. This website makes a comment that the decreased performance of this 1000W bulb is perhaps because Sylvania is a cheaper version than GE.

Who knows, now that I quoted your sale thread, maybe one of these guys will buy it. I know mine runs at least 15 minutes, as compared to your 5 min run time...but I didn't keep it turned on constantly...so I'm estimating.



TigerhawkT3 said:


> First, details.
> 
> I pointed the stock light (guts only, of course) on the high beam at the ceiling next to the spot of the LarryK12. My room is standard height, around ten feet, and the lights were about six or seven feet away from the ceiling.
> 
> The spot cast by the stock high beam can be looked at. It is barely visible in the LarryK12's spillbeam. The LK12's spot is too intense to look at directly.
> 
> This is for comparison purposes only. It does not show the absolute brightness of either light.
> 
> And now the pic.


----------



## frogs3

I just did a coarse calculation on cheapbatterypack's website, and the cost would be about $210 plus whatever they charge for a custom package using the 4500 batteries.

Not a lot of $$ for the output, even when a bulb is added and a basic lantern case, assuming I don't burn anybody or anything. I still need a charger.

This looks possible.

-Harvey K.


----------



## windstrings

LuxLuthor said:


> I just don't have his permission...and am not sure he wants me to post detailed images of his work....so I'm waiting on a PM from him. My criticism of your light is how it looks overall, and the poor quality of your beamshot which I quoted below. I can just say that my white wall beam does not look anything like this one that you posted in your thread. Sorry.
> 
> Who knows, now that I quoted your sale thread, maybe one of these guys will buy it. I know mine runs at least 15 minutes, as compared to your 5 min run time...but I didn't keep it turned on constantly...so I'm estimating.



wholly mackeral... .you guys see that flying saucer?????


----------



## LuxLuthor

frogs3 said:


> I just did a coarse calculation on cheapbatterypack's website, and the cost would be about $210 plus whatever they charge for a custom package using the 4500 batteries.
> 
> Not a lot of $$ for the output, even when a bulb is added and a basic lantern case, assuming I don't burn anybody or anything. I still need a charger.
> 
> This looks possible.
> 
> -Harvey K.



Yeah, even with shipping...I'm pretty sure you can get all the parts for under $300. I live in coastal Connecticut. The way GE designed these bulbs, they reflect all the heat outward....so there is no concern about the plastic generic light housing which they fit into.


----------



## larryk

Both Osram and GE make the Q4559X Lamps and they look identical. The original 4559 Lamp has been around since the 1950's. The 2 top photos show the 4559 filament, and the 3rd photo shows the Q4559X filament. The spiral filament of the 4559 has the better spot and would be even better if that darn cut-off shield was not present. Notice how the Halogen Q4559X is sealed in a smaller secondary bulb within the sealed lamp.


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Hmm... I wasn't aware that the Sylvania starlight sold me was of lower quality than GE. Perhaps I'll get one and see what happens! 

As to the runtime, I'm using 3600s instead of 4500s. The theoretical limit for runtime is somewhere between nine and ten minutes, but I called it five minutes to be on the safe side.

Does anyone know when cheapbatterypacks.com will get more Elite 4500s?

EDIT: Upon reading larryk's post right above mine, the filament on my LA looks like the bottom pic. If the Osram-manufactured and GE-manufactured models are exactly the same, I can't figure out why my light and LuxLuthor's would have such different beams.


----------



## LuxLuthor

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Hmm... I wasn't aware that the Sylvania starlight sold me was of lower quality than GE. Perhaps I'll get one and see what happens!
> 
> As to the runtime, I'm using 3600s instead of 4500s. The theoretical limit for runtime is somewhere between nine and ten minutes, but I called it five minutes to be on the safe side.
> 
> Does anyone know when cheapbatterypacks.com will get more Elite 4500s?
> 
> EDIT: Upon reading larryk's post right above mine, the filament on my LA looks like the bottom pic. If the Osram-manufactured and GE-manufactured models are exactly the same, I can't figure out why my light and LuxLuthor's would have such different beams.



Tiger, be clear that I am not saying that I know anything about the real (if any) differences between the Sylvania/Osram vs. the GE, except what was posted on that link about another bulb when I tried to find a comparison on google. I'm just speculating on a possible explanation.

I just took a beamshot on an off-white wall above a fireplace with lights 12 feet from wall. On left is the Barn Burner, and right is the Larry14K I'm using. Like you said, it is impossible to have this be a fair representation of the lights because of the camera limitations. This also does not show the throw of either light, or the tremendous spill of the Larry14K. The center hotspots can be seen however.






LOL...that is a nail above the Larry14K, and a mark above BB that is normally covered by my 6 feet wide Japanese water color hanging.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Just to get a better idea of the beamshapes, I made a gif image comparing them. I cropped both original images and then rotated mine so it has about the same orientation as your more oval shot. It gives a good idea of up close beam shapes. This difference might also be related to reflectors used behind the bulbs....like I said, I'm not sure how to explain it technically.


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Weird.

I'm thoroughly confused now.


----------



## LuxLuthor

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Weird.
> 
> I'm thoroughly confused now.



I'm not sure what about...but it might just be a quality variation between the two bulbs. Heck, I'm not even sure that all the GE bulbs are the same filament/mounted quality, because the spare bulb does not have the center bulb filament as perfectly centered as the one in the light I got.

I just got a PM from MadMaxabeam, saying it was ok to post whatever shots and information I wanted, but he is only going to have a couple more of these lights (hopefully) to sell. I paid him $400 (shipped), but he said the other 1-2 would be slightly more $$$.

I'll take some shots of it later, because a few others asked me about the light in PM's.


----------



## LuxLuthor

NewBie said:


> ...the GE Q4559X for evaluating AR coatings and reflectivity, I call it my portable sun.
> 
> If you are interested in one of these, they only cost 33.44 from here:
> http://www.skygeek.com/gesealbeamqu1.html



This site is really great. Many S&H options, and for two of them was only $5.90 for FedEx 3Day...totalling $72.85


----------



## windstrings

LuxLuthor said:


> I made a gif image comparing them.



You gotta mellow on those gif conversions.. I'm not sure I'll ever be the same after the last one you did on me!


----------



## frogs3

Now I need a refresher on bulbs:

The "quartz" improvement with the inner bulb does what for the output and throw? Is this to lengthen bulb life at the expense of output or just to make the filament more stable dimensionally? And which company makes the bulb that we fruitcakes want to work with?

Oh, and Tigerhawk T3, when those 4500 batteries become available again, if you find them first, please let us know, and I will do the same.

Thanks,

Harvey K.


----------



## frogs3

Now I need a refresher on bulbs:

The "quartz" improvement with the inner bulb does what for the output and throw? Is this to lengthen bulb life at the expense of output or just to make the filament more stable dimensionally? And which company makes the bulb that we fruitcakes want to work with?

Oh, and Tigerhawk T3, when those 4500 batteries become available again, if you find them first, please let us know, and I will do the same.

Thanks,

Harvey K.


----------



## windstrings

frogs3 said:


> Now I need a refresher on bulbs:
> 
> The "quartz" improvement with the inner bulb does what for the output and throw? Is this to lengthen bulb life at the expense of output or just to make the filament more stable dimensionally? And which company makes the bulb that we fruitcakes want to work with?
> 
> Oh, and Tigerhawk T3, when those 4500 batteries become available again, if you find them first, please let us know, and I will do the same.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Harvey K.



Aren't these the same things?
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2800

Nominal Voltage   1.2V  NominalCapacity   4500mAh  Max.Discharging current 45 Amp max.  Internal Resistivity  <=5 Mili Ohm   Dimensions 23 Dia x 43 H mm with solderable tab  Weight   2.2 oz/cell   Cycle Performance  80% of initial capacity at 1000 cycles at 0.1C rate  Detail Data Sheet Specification for Sc size 4500 mAh Nimh Rechargeble cells

  Advantages​  High drain current up to 45 Amps, perfect for various battery packs such as power tools, backup powers, RC toys, and electric guns and etc.

Here they are as singles:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=226

Wow.. 40A discharge rate.. http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3054


----------



## LuxLuthor

Those are the same specified battery. I just don't know what the quality reputation of this "AA Portable Power Corp." brand. As you know there is a wide variety of performance among batteries. Likely, someone would have to get some of these and test them objectively. Also, the Cheap Battery packs listing for the Elite's now has a message that they will be in stock in late January.


----------



## wtn

I see that batteryspace.com has the sc 4200's with tabs - 20 for $79.95 - then just add 4 more (with tabs) for $18 for a total of $98. Then one could just solder up a custom pack. Probably go for two packs with 12 cells each as mentioned earlier. This seems like the least cost/most amp hour solution I have come across yet. I think these were capable of a 30 amp draw. Too lazy to go back to the site - either 30 or 36.


----------



## LuxLuthor

wtn said:


> I see that batteryspace.com has the sc 4200's with tabs - 20 for $79.95 - then just add 4 more (with tabs) for $18 for a total of $98. Then one could just solder up a custom pack. Probably go for two packs with 12 cells each as mentioned earlier. This seems like the least cost/most amp hour solution I have come across yet. I think these were capable of a 30 amp draw. Too lazy to go back to the site - either 30 or 36.


Yeah that is a great price...but again those 4200 mAh are also the "*AA Portable Power Corp.*" brand....and I think it is worth finding out if they are a good quality battery. They may be just fine, but I don't know, and don't think you can rely on their own PDF specification info.


----------



## larryk

wtn said:


> I see that batteryspace.com has the sc 4200's with tabs - 20 for $79.95 - then just add 4 more (with tabs) for $18 for a total of $98. Then one could just solder up a custom pack. Probably go for two packs with 12 cells each as mentioned earlier. This seems like the least cost/most amp hour solution I have come across yet. I think these were capable of a 30 amp draw. Too lazy to go back to the site - either 30 or 36.



I would stick with Cheapbatterypacks.com, or proven cells that have gone through the punishment that the R/C car racers put them thru. There's a reason that the sc4200 cells cost less than half of the IB4200 cells. On a side note, who's going to be the first to try 25 or 26 cells ? If you have the room in your host, you could wire up 1 or 2 extra cells on a separate switch for a nice boost function.


----------



## LuxLuthor

larry, do you have any information on those Sylvania vs. GE bulb types?


----------



## larryk

LuxLuthor said:


> larry, do you have any information on those Sylvania vs. GE bulb types?



Sorry no info. The Osram and GE Q4559X lamps look identical in everyway. My guess is they are made a the same plant. TigerhawkT3 is using a Sylvania lamp, and if I remember correctly the front glass on his Sylvania lamp is domed where mine are all flat glass. Gotta get to bed now. Later, Larry.


----------



## larryk

Here is a photo of my beam from 9 feet away using the Osram Q4559X Lamp.


----------



## LuxLuthor

that's even rounder than mine....so it's not the GE vs. Sylvania/Osram issue. He may have a "unique" bulb.


----------



## larryk

Lux, that photo was taken some time ago. In seeing it in person, and standing 12 feet back it looks oval like your beam. There's no way to get a round beam seeing how wide these filaments are. I wish they would have stayed with the spiral style filament of the original 4559.


----------



## larryk

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm not sure what about...but it might just be a quality variation between the two bulbs. Heck, I'm not even sure that all the GE bulbs are the same filament/mounted quality, because the spare bulb does not have the center bulb filament as perfectly centered as the one in the light I got.
> 
> I just got a PM from MadMaxabeam, saying it was ok to post whatever shots and information I wanted, but he is only going to have a couple more of these lights (hopefully) to sell. I paid him $400 (shipped), but he said the other 1-2 would be slightly more $$$.
> 
> I'll take some shots of it later, because a few others asked me about the light in PM's.



What Spotlight host did MadMaxabeam use for your light ? Any photos of yours ? I was thinking of doing a second one using NiMh batteries, but would like to find a slightly larger and more attractive host.


----------



## LuxLuthor

larryk said:


> What Spotlight host did MadMaxabeam use for your light ? Any photos of yours ? I was thinking of doing a second one using NiMh batteries, but would like to find a slightly larger and more attractive host.



OK, I finally got around to taking some pictures. He just used a generic "Gordon" Harbor Freight light here.

I took these photos of it, trying to show the two small connectors in the handle that the separate wires plug into for charging each 12 pack of the Elite 4500's, or into the larger female Dean's connector (inside the battery pack compartment with your Triton connection) for charging all 24 cells at once. Those two sets of 12pack wire connectors don't match, because I asked him to send me an extra one so I could charge both packs at one time with the two Smart Chargers, and he whipped out another setup from what he had handy.

The switch is lighted red when on, and has the protective flip top cover. The 5AG50A side fuse holder is nice when changing the bulb. I would have to take out the side screws of the light to further expose the wiring and battery pack configuration, which I don't feel like doing.

The last shot shows the bulb with two wires that attach with screw terminals. The outer plastic ring easily unscrews, and the bulb can be lifted out. I doubt you will ever need to change the bulb on these, since they have a decent lifetime, and are designed for a 747 plane...but it is very easy to do.


----------



## windstrings

That looks like some pretty clean work.....


----------



## ernsanada

LuxLuthor,

How much did you pay for the Q4559X Bulb?

Thanks!


----------



## BVH

Post 74 shows Newbie's source where they're $33 and change. Skygeek.


----------



## larryk

LuxLuthor, thanks for the photos. I'm using the same host only a different color. I like your switch and the shallow fuse holder. I sill use the original switch for my low voltage warning device for the Lipo batteries and mounted my toggle switch and fuse holder on the front of the light. AWR bought a host a while back that would fit the 4559 bulbs. His was a little larger which aloud more room inside for the battery configurations. I can not remember the brand Andrew bought, and can not get in contact with him right now.


----------



## frogs3

As Windy noted, these two units show some very neat handiwork with the tools. Can you gentlemen indicate what tools beyond the basic stuff that is, would be required to make the needed changes in the body of the spotlight as it arrives stock? Hand drills, taps, etc.

Thanks,

Harvey K.


----------



## ksbman

LuxLuthor said:


> Keith are those the GE *Q*4559X Halogen that I linked to that you mention as just 4559X ? I just don't know if there are 3 models (Q4559X, 4559X, & 4559).


There are/were 3 models: 4559, Q4559, and Q4559X. I haven't seen anything but the Q4559X in years.



ernsanada said:


> What's the part number you use on rear nav light and wing tip nav lights? Do all the aircraft you mention use the same bulbs?
> 
> I work for American Eagle and we use 1683's for the rear nav light and A4174-24's for the wing tip nav bulbs.


I haven't seen any of the A4174-24 style of bulbs since the 727 went away.

I had some spare time at work last night so I made up a short list of exterior lights used on AA aircraft. The P/N's are as listed in the IPC, with Q's, GE's and such.

MD-80
Navigation (red/green) - GE16731-2
Position (white) - GE16731-2
Landing (all) - Q4559X
Taxi - 4557
Runway Turnoff - 4551
Wing Illumination - 4594
Nacelle - 4593
Logo - Q4632

737
Navigation (red/green) - 64621HLX
Position (white) - 64621HLX
Landing (all) - Q4559X
Taxi - 4554
Runway Turnoff - 4551
Wing Illumination - 64621HLX
Logo - 64621HLX

757
Navigation (red/green) - 1978X
Position (white) - 1978X
Landing (all) - Q4559X
Taxi - 4551
Runway Turnoff - 4551
Wing Illumination - Q4631

767
Navigation (red/green) - GE3078
Position (white) - GE3078
Landing (all) - Q4559X
Taxi - 4551
Runway Turnoff - 4551
Wing Illumination - Q4631

777
Navigation (red/green) - 64621HLX
Position (white) - 64621HLX
Landing (all) - Q4559X
Taxi - 4554
Runway Turnoff - 4551
Wing Illumination - 64621HLX
Logo - 64621HLX

A300
Navigation (red/green) - 1978X
Position (white) - 1978X
Landing (all) - Q4559X
Taxi - 4557
Runway Turnoff - Q4631
Wing Illumination - Q4631
Logo - Q4631

F100 (AA no longer has any of these)
Navigation (red/green) - A7512-4
Position (white) - GE16731-2
Landing (all) - Q4559X
Taxi - 4551
Wing Illumination – 4594

The Anti-Collision lights (beacons) are all strobe tubes, as are the wing-tip strobes.



frogs3 said:


> All of this information is neato, but it doesn't get the 14K lumen light built any faster. We must remain tuned into ... But I digress.


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## ernsanada

Thanks ksbman!!!!!


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## windstrings

frogs3 said:


> As Windy noted, these two units show some very neat handiwork with the tools. Can you gentlemen indicate what tools beyond the basic stuff that is, would be required to make the needed changes in the body of the spotlight as it arrives stock? Hand drills, taps, etc.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Harvey K.



I would only have to guess.. but I bought myself a nice little lithium powered dremmel set for Christmas.. I bet that would do the trick... along with maybe wire cutters, needle nose pliers and misc.... larry seems to have done an fine job.. so much so that people prefer to have him do it!... but I think he is neck deep in alligators for projects I think.....

Once you got the bulb and the batteires, the rest is just jerry rigging I suppose... some more pics may help.

If larry doesn't mind... I suppose anything is fair game once it hits the market.


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## LuxLuthor

KSBMan...that's very interesting to see all those various bulbs....and it also says a lot about the Q4559X to see it used in so many planes...that's one helluva endorsement. How many landing lights do most of the larger planes have...and are they angled mostly forward, or more like 45 degree forward and down?


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## Lumos

Interestingly, the primary purpose of aircraft landinglights is to aid external visibility of the aircraft (particularly by the tower on final) and to help visibility whilst taxiing). I have never flown an aircraft where the landing lights helped in seeing the runway before touchdown. The strongest visual cues to height above the runway come from the runway edge lights. The PAPI lighting system on the ground is a simple but highly effective visual system for indicating if you are above or below the flight path on the approach, and approach lighting indicates the beginning of the runway and the touchdown zone.

This explains why aircraft are not strapping 20 Barn Burners to their wings (apart from the fact that they would go backwards).

Ian


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## XeRay

Lumos said:


> Interestingly, the primary purpose of aircraft landinglights is to aid external visibility of the aircraft (particularly by the tower on final) and to help visibility whilst taxiing). I have never flown an aircraft where the landing lights helped in seeing the runway before touchdown. The strongest visual cues to height above the runway come from the runway edge lights. The PAPI lighting system on the ground is a simple but highly effective visual system for indicating if you are above or below the flight path on the approach, and approach lighting indicates the beginning of the runway and the touchdown zone.
> 
> This explains why aircraft are not strapping 20 Barn Burners to their wings (apart from the fact that they would go backwards).


 
We do have turbine and piston powered (crop dusters) agricultural (spray) planes and Helicopters using "BB's" in place of those 600 watt par 64 (8 inch) for night ops in the central valley of California and other places. It is the same ballast system and bulb and a Par 64 reflector. No searchlight housing is used like the BB has. The ag guys typically have one of these in each wing, they are retractable into the underside of the wing.

Our standard 35 and 50 watt landing lights do illuminate the runways from about 1/2 mile out. They are used to look for deer on the runway etc well before touchdown.

If you have never used a landing light that works effectively its time you do. The entire fleet of Embry Riddle Prescott, AZ training aircraft has our 35 watt systems. These were sold to them before we had 50 watts. I fly a Glasair 200+ Kt, cruise 90 Kt on final and believe me, one 50 watt unit does the job VERY well. I have customers that use 2 or even three of these 50 watt on 1 aircraft landing in the bush of Alaska and Australia.


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## BVH

Dan, a bunch of the Embry-Riddle Florida aircraft were destroyed around Christmas time by a tornado. Maybe you'll have a chance to provide the replacements with 50 Watt systems.


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## XeRay

BVH said:


> Dan, a bunch of the Embry-Riddle Florida aircraft were destroyed around Christmas time by a tornado. Maybe you'll have a chance to provide the replacements with 50 Watt systems.


 
Yes, we are working on that.


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## Lumos

Dan,

This is indeed a revelation for me. How have you positioned the light that will light the runway on final and still be on the runway in the flare. In the UK we cannot switch the runway lights on as in the US so it would be very useful to have. Funnily enough just 2 hours ago a friend called me to see if I would like to hangar an aircraft at an private 850m grass strip near my home. 3 of your 50W would make that a whole lot more interesting.

Ian


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## LuxLuthor

Until Dan clarified, I was picturing some cropdusting dudes waving their BB light from the cockpit..."_*Here Billy-Bob, shine this out there so we don't hit any cotton pickin' deer, while I grab the stick for this landing*_."


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## windstrings

LuxLuthor said:


> Until Dan clarified, I was picturing some cropdusting dudes waving their BB light from the cockpit..."_*Here Billy-Bob, shine this out there so we don't hit any cotton pickin' deer, while I grab the stick for this landing*_."



Well,... thats not "exactly" what I said......


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## LuxLuthor

-edit-


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## XeRay

Lumos said:


> Dan,
> 
> This is indeed a revelation for me. How have you positioned the light that will light the runway on final and still be on the runway in the flare. In the UK we cannot switch the runway lights on as in the US so it would be very useful to have. Funnily enough just 2 hours ago a friend called me to see if I would like to hangar an aircraft at an private 850m grass strip near my home. 3 of your 50W would make that a whole lot more interesting.


 
My airplane has only one 50 watt HID landing version (spot pattern) and is plenty. My stall speed is about 70 mph so fairly fast airplane. There is quite enough scattered light to do both if the flare is not harsh (pitch angle). For a grass strip I would recommend a taxi version with a 55 degree wide and 10 degrees tall beam pattern and a landing version with 10 degree round spot pattern. 2 units, not 3.


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## BVH

Got my LarryK14 today and what a beautifully crafted light it is. Very well made mechanically/electrically and looks great too! Got it charged and will wait 2 hours or more until dark to fire it up!


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## LuxLuthor

Who made yours? MadMax?


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## LED61

XeRay said:


> My airplane has only one 50 watt HID landing version (spot pattern) and is plenty. My stall speed is about 70 mph so fairly fast airplane. There is quite enough scattered light to do both if the flare is not harsh (pitch angle). For a grass strip I would recommend a taxi version with a 55 degree wide and 10 degrees tall beam pattern and a landing version with 10 degree round spot pattern. 2 units, not 3.


 
The big hit on HID in airplanes Dan is the reliability. Many a time I've had a landing light burn out on me after takeoff, they love to do that. I can land without one but I don't like it.


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## BVH

I forgot to turn off the landing light after takeoff on a 172 back on my 3rd night solo and it burned out in flight. What a surprise on landing for a new pilot! Didn't panic, just did what I was trained to do but without the light. Touch down was as smooth as with a light.


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## LED61

by keeping your eyes on the far end of the runway ? I didn't find this to be 100% correct after a while. BTW, is that practice (landing without light) required in the States for night currency ? oh well, sorry, getting a bit off topic here I'll knock it off.


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## XeRay

LED61 said:


> by keeping your eyes on the far end of the runway ? I didn't find this to be 100% correct after a while. BTW, is that practice (landing without light) required in the States for night currency ? oh well, sorry, getting a bit off topic here I'll knock it off.


 
No, it is not reqired for night currency. Its just a smart thing to practice.


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## Lumos

The life of a landing light is hard due to vibration, whether it is mounted under the prop or, like mine, on the front landing gear. I think the advantage of having it away from the engine is less vibration but what always kills lights in my experience is leaving them on after retracting the gear. They overheat in the housing. I am sure that Dan has not lost one to either form of torture and that in itself would justify the install. 

In the UK I recall from my night training that we hardly ever used landing lights, nor, as I said earlier, did I ever find them to confer an advantage for judging the flare. Also I find that in the UK our runways are not always flat and the end lights may not be visible at the crucial moment; at least I have never considered the end lights when landing. What is constant is the relation of the runway edge lights. They seem to hold a relative position until about 10 feet above the runway when they suddenly change perspective rapidly. Flaring then always produces a smooth touchdown. There may be better ways but that's all I have ever done. Having said that, the ability to see the runway with your own HID seems to be a much better option.

Ian


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## nightstalker101

Wow, these are really bright. How much do these bulbs cost?


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## BVH

lamps are about $33 and change plus shipping.


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## get-lit

Q4681 Lamp = 3,900,000 Lumens @ 450 Watt? 8667 lumens per watt is really hard to believe... Is this correct?


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## XeRay

get-lit said:


> Q4681 Lamp = 3,900,000 Lumens @ 450 Watt? 8667 lumens per watt is really hard to believe... Is this correct?


 
NO


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## get-lit

Anyone know the actual rated lumens? Everything I google says 3,900,000 Lumens...


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## BVH

310000 max beam CP from G.E. page but don't see lumens rating.


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## XeRay

BVH said:


> 310000 max beam CP from G.E. page but don't see lumens rating.


 
should be in the 5,000 to 6,000 lumens range


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## get-lit

High voltage Halogens have an efficacy somewhere around 22 lm/W with specialized ones a bit more. I'd say it has 9000 lumen at a minimum with 18 lm/W and 12500 lumen max with 25 lm/W. Still nowhere near the ballpark of the XBO 500W considering the near point source that can churn 14500 lumen into raw candlepower with the XBO.


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## XeRay

get-lit said:


> High voltage Halogens have an efficacy somewhere around 22 lm/W with specialized ones a bit more. I'd say it has 9000 lumen at a minimum with 18 lm/W and 12500 lumen max with 25 lm/W. Still nowhere near the ballpark of the XBO 500W considering the near point source that can churn 14500 lumen into raw candlepower with the XBO.


 
This is a 24-30 VDC halogen


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## get-lit

Is it less efficient than other voltage halogens?


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## BVH

My new LarryK14 (just like Lux's in the pics in this thread) made by Mad Maxabeam is a very, very well made light. True professional quality. If you're thinking about one of these, pull the trigger, you will not regret it! He indicates that some are coming available soon. It is one bright monster - both in flood and in throw and looks like a cheap, $19.95 Harbor Freight spotlight. Its a great sleeper! Release the guard, flip the toggle and WOW!


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## mtbkndad

XeRay said:


> should be in the 5,000 to 6,000 lumens range




In Larry's original thread he mentioned the bulb in his light being rated at 12,000 lumens and he was overdriving it to around 14,000 lumens

I know the Ken 4, made by kenshiro, uses a much more efficient 200 watt halogen bulb that is rated at (or being overdriven to) 10,000 lumens and the Ken 5 uses I believe a 400 watt halogen bulb rated at around 16,000 lumens.

I still think the Ken 4 is the size to brightness champ  .
10,000+ lumens in a little vector body WOW.

In the canyon where the lights have been photographed the BB will light the tree as well as a Ken 4, but the Ken 4 lights EVERYTHING else better.
I am really looking forward to seeing BVH's LarryK light when we get together.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## DaddyFreddy

I built a hard hat light with a GE Q4509, 100 watt Par 36 aircraft landing light. It is a nice set up for luminating impoundments we duck hunt in. Is there a brighter Par 36 light that I can use? Their websight says 110,000 candle power but it sure seems to be brighter than that? 
Oh and great forum, yall cover it all.


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## LuxLuthor

I just wanted to pimp this light again. Was out playing with it tonight...this redefines having fun with lights.


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## mtbkndad

LuxLuthor said:


> I just wanted to pimp this light again. Was out playing with it tonight...this redefines having fun with lights.



I couldn't agree more. This light is real fun. Particularly if you can be lucky enough to run into somebody with an un-modded version using theirs.
    

When I get spare funds and time I hope to make one.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## LuxLuthor

I'm surprised how well these Elite 4500 SubC cells have held up to the massive current draining and recharging.


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## cookie

Hey guys, got a somewhat off topic question but not too far. I have a pair of OLDER GE incandescent landing lights that I want to use for paintball. What I want to do is build a pair of remote controlled lights that I can activate for short periods of time as needed that would literally burn the opposing team out of the woods.

The bulbs are labeled 1500 watt, 32V 400 cps (Hz). I believe this indicates that they were for old military aircraft; would this be correct (not that it really matters, just curious). Harking back to my DC Electronics class I seem to remember being able to calculate the average voltage of a sine wave (as seen on the output of a diode bridge) by multiplying it by 0.707. If this is correct I think an acceptable working DC voltage would be 24V(32 * 0.707 = 22.63). The current would be 62.5 amps. I have HVAC relays rated at 80 amps so they should work.

My main problem is finding sockets that are designed for them. With that much current I would much rather use a manufactured socket than jury-rig something. Any idea where I could find the original sockets? Also, how do I calculate the size of the reflector to build for these bulbs?

NOTE: Yes, this is overkill, ridiculous, silly and going way overboard; but that is what I am known for in the part of the paintball world that I live in. If I am over-compensating for something then I must be a eunuch.

But, my team is constantly begged by generals to be on their side just so they can have my 'toys' pointing away from them. hehehe


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## MikeLip

If the 32V is RMS as it almost certainly is, you would apply 32VDC. RMS is the effective voltage, which is the same as the DC voltage.

Your .707 figure converts from peak (NOT peak to peak) AC voltage as seen on an oscilloscope to RMS.

400Hz is a common operating frequency for aviation, and for submarines if my experience with the Mk48 and Mk50 torpedo projects is any guide - they ran off 400hz


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## cookie

I knew I was forgetting something. So I can use 36V DC, or try to find some converter with 32V output?


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## MikeLip

cookie said:


> I knew I was forgetting something. So I can use 36V DC, or try to find some converter with 32V output?



It's your light  I don't know if 36V will instaflash it. I am not an expert on lamps


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## cookie

Yeah, I am just tryng to keep things as technically simple as I can. Rather not have to go the battery-inverter-power supply-buld route.


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## MikeLip

You might want to check some of the surplus electronic shops. A few years ago I was able to snag a Sorenson DCR32-155 (32V, 155A, constant voltage ro constant current supply) for $500. It's a little rough, but it works. And you can weld with it


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## cookie

Any idea on where to look for info on determining what radius I need to use for a reflector?


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## jpfour

not an answer to the previous post, but what vehicle housings are avaliable for thes Sealed Beam Units as i have access to them at work,
and think they would be awesome on my pickup thanks -james-


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