# Worldwide first regulated solar rechargeable keychain LED light



## remuen (Apr 12, 2002)

_Added 04-24-02:
---------------
I renamed this thread to its original name because the group buy is closed. You will still find some general informations about this group buy here in this thread_
--------------

Yesterday I bought a solar rechargeable keychain LED light with a lithium solar rechargeable cell in a tools shop. It's manufactured by a small Swiss company. I couldn't find a web site with this product. 







_picture added later_
Therefore here some details:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> Manufacturer: AVEXA AG, CH-9630 Wattwil, phone + 41 71 988 41 22, fax +41 71 988 41 24 
<LI> Product name: Free Light Solar Flashlight
<LI> Size: 5.5 x 3 x 0.9 mm
<LI> price: SFr 31 -> about $19.40
<LI> lithium solar rechargeable cells, overcharge protected 
<LI> glass solar panel
<LI> water resistant
<LI> 4000mcd white LED (with a blueish tint). Seems to be overdriven, because it is only slightly dimmer than an ARC AAA
<LI> runtime fully charged more than one hour
<LI> one day sunlight for a full recharge
<LI> momentary push button switch
[/list]

I will try to get some more informations about it and will post them here.


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## remuen (Apr 13, 2002)

In the meantime I had contact with the manufacturer of this nice little flashlight. He has confirmed me that Free Light is the worldwide first and up to now only solar rechargeable keychain flashlight. Another proof that Swiss companies can produce also other high tech and high quality products than only watches and SAK








I've have got some more details on Free Light:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> they use a Nichia R Rank (4800 - 5600 - 6800 mcd at If=20mA) driven with max. 30mA
<LI> the lithium cell is a Panasonic Vanadium Lithium cell which can be recharged up to 10'000 times
<LI> Free Light uses a DC/DC converter
<LI> The runtime is about 2 hours without the need to recharge it (not as mentioned in my first post only 1 hour)
<LI> Free Light is waterproof (IP68) and not only water resistant
<LI> all components are high quality industry standard
[/list]

Unfortunatly they do not have a real website but at least they show a picture of Free Light at www.avexa.ch. Maybe somebody will blame me for this but here is a email adress to contact the guy who has answered my fax: [email protected]

_Added later: Another picture is showed on page two of this thread_

*Craig (the LED Museum):*Who will be the worldwide first flashlight tester who will test this unique keychain flashlight?





Btw, Avexa is searching for distributors in the USA. Interested dealers or flashaholics shall contact them directly.

*Added 04-14-2002:*_I've got a new email from Avexa with a correction: The LED in the Free Light is a Nichia R Rank (4800 - 5600 - 6800 mcd at If=20mA) and not as first mentioned in this post a Nichia S Rank LED. There was a mistake in the first email I've got from them._


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## MY (Apr 13, 2002)

Seems too good to be true - the size must be bigger than other keychain lights.


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## remuen (Apr 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MY:
*Seems too good to be true - the size must be bigger than other keychain lights.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I'm true the existence of this keychain light is also true






because it is just beneath my left hand on the desk.

MY, you're right, the Free Light is bigger than other keychain lights - it is about 55 x 28 x 9 mm. But it fits better on my keyring than the ARC LE. And here in Switzerland the Free Light is about $4 cheaper than a Photon I .........


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## Darell (Apr 13, 2002)

Rene -

Any chance that you can post a picture of the actual light? The picture you linked to doesn't do a whole lot for me. Sounds like a GREAT product! I'd love to have one.

...and... does it ONLY have a momentary switch? Be tough to use it for 2 hours without a continuous switch!


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## remuen (Apr 14, 2002)

*darell:*
I^ve got another picture from Avexa showing the solar panel side of the Free Light. As I don't have a website I'll send it to you by email.

The Free Light has unfortunatly only a momentary switch but if using it as a keychain light IMO it is acceptable even a continious function would be more comvenient.

*To all interested in this keychain light:*
I've got two emails in which some fellows asked me to buy this keychain light for them and send it to the USA. I'm not a flashlight dealer



but would be willing to do this. But let me first check the shipment costs to the USA. And I have to think how we could handle the payment ....

Btw, according to the last email I got from Avexa they start some activities to find distributors in the USA.


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## Darell (Apr 14, 2002)

Please send me the picture, and I'll post it here. I'd be interested in purchasing one of these as well, if you iron out the details...


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## jeff1500 (Apr 14, 2002)

That's a nice design.


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## Lonewolf (Apr 14, 2002)

If enough people are interested maybe one of the dealers will be willing to stock them. I know I would like one as well.


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## jeff1500 (Apr 14, 2002)

I wonder what the circuit looks like?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 14, 2002)

Was that price in American Dollars? Also would you mind asking your contact if they plan on making one with a constant on switch?


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## Spidey82 (Apr 14, 2002)

I would want one, but seriously a constant on switch would be nice.

Remuen,
does the company accept suggestion????

well i still wan one..... 
photon without need to change batt.......


Linfeng


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## remuen (Apr 14, 2002)

You are keeping me busy with such a lot of things to answer:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
Please send me the picture, and I'll post it here. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should have got this picture. Would be very nice if you could post it for all others interested in this keychain light

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeff1500:
*
I wonder what the circuit looks like?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know which chip they are using. The Free Light is completly glued and sealed so there is no chance to open it without destroying it. In this case I can imagine that they don't use one of the switcher chip we know (eg ZXSC300, LT1932, MAXxxxx) as this light needs also some charging functions for the lithium cell. Looking at the size of this keychain light it must be a SMD circuit.

Btw, have you tried to solder such a SMD board in the meantime?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waynerd:
*
Was that price in American Dollars? 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I wrote in my first post I payed SFr 31.- (that's Swiss Francs). This is about $19.40 (= USD but I'm not sure about the actual exchange rate).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waynerd:
*
Also would you mind asking your contact if they plan on making one with a constant on switch? 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do hope they will join us here in the CPF so all suggestions can be placed here.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
I would want one, but seriously a constant on switch would be nice.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right even one needs it only occasionly

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
does the company accept suggestion????
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know because I know the product and the company only since three days. But at least I got very fast answers on my questions even it was saturday and sunday. I suggested them to become CPF members so let's see what happens


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
well i still wan one..... 
photon without need to change batt.......
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This sounds as you have once tried to change the battery of photon in the darkness



.D



. Lucky guy if you had a replacement battery in the pocket and if you have such a good night vision that you can do this ....


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## Darell (Apr 15, 2002)

Wow! Excellent use of UBB code for your replies!

I'm sorry to say that the pictures haven't arrived in my mailbox yet.  Here's my email just in case:

[email protected]

I'm happy to put them up when I see them. My email has been giving others a bit of a problem lately, so it may very well be my pop account at fault.


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## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2002)

*I'm happy to put them up when I see them. My email has been giving others a bit of a problem lately, so it may very well be my pop account at fault.*

excuses excuses....


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## remuen (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Wow! Excellent use of UBB code for your replies!
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for this compliment



. IMO it's much easier to read this kind of posts - especially when they are a bit longer than usual and dealing with different topics.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
I'm sorry to say that the pictures haven't arrived in my mailbox yet. Here's my email just in case:

[email protected]

I'm happy to put them up when I see them. My email has been giving others a bit of a problem lately, so it may very well be my pop account at fault.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll send it again. I'm now in the office and do not have the pic (it is only one picture) on this computer.


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## remuen (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*I'm sorry to say that the pictures haven't arrived in my mailbox yet. Here's my email just in case:

[email protected]

I'm happy to put them up when I see them. My email has been giving others a bit of a problem lately, so it may very well be my pop account at fault.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've sent you the picture again from two different accounts (also two different providers). Hope this time it works correct.


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## remuen (Apr 15, 2002)

The last three days I've played with this Free Light. I'm not a flashlight reviewer but I took the whole risk of loosing the money I payed for it and made a few simple but hard tests.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>First of all: Holding this keychain light in the hand you will get the impression of a very high quality product - as almost all Swiss products like Omega or Rolex watches or the Victorinox swiss army knives are high quality products



. The Free Light has an excellent finish. Avexa did not use a cheap plastic material but a material which feels like a hard rubber. It also does look very solid - and it is very solid. I let it drop a view times on the stone floor in the bathroom and neither the glass of the solar panel has broken nor something else went into the wellknown flashlight heaven. The light still works perfectly.

<LI>Then I put the Free Light in a pot of water (10cm) and under water I switched it several times on/off. It didn't impress this keycain light so it must be more than only water resistent (according to the manufacturer it is waterproof IP68).

<LI>The brightness of the Free Light is as already mentioned in an earlier post only slightly lower than the one of the ARC AAA (not the ARC LE) and also a bit dimmer than the Photon with new batteries in the first minute of use. The LED light has a bluish tint as eg. the ARC AAA or the Photon I I own has. 
The most tricky thing in my test was a short runtime test. After ten minutes of continious runnig (then I had to stop because of 'burning' finger muscles



) the LED had still the same brightness - at least for my eyes because I have no light meter. This is the result of the dc-dc converter used in the Free Light. It doesn't dimm as a Photon and all other keychain lights I know (except the ARC LE/AAA). If it would only have a continious on switch function this feature would be much more valuable ...

<LI>The best of all is obviously the solar panel with the built in vanadium lithium cell and the electronic circuit (dc-dc converter and overcharge protection). If you ever have tried to replace a battery in a Photon and then putting it together so the switch works as it did before you know what it means to have such a keychain light where you don't have to do this ... You will always have the possibility to put your keyring somewhere in the light so the battery can be recharged.

I didn't test the claimed runtime of up to 2 hours with a fully charged cell. Let us believe that the vanadium lithium cell has enough capacaty and the efficiency of the dc-dc converter is high so it will give us a bright light for at least more than one hour.

<LI>The weak points? The missing continious on function as mentioned several times before and the LED which is not protected against becoming scratched. But the LED of the Photon my wife carries on her keyring is also not protected and the lense of the LED looks still quite good after she has used it now for a couple of months. And a last minor thing: To remove the blue strap to carry the Free Light without a keyring you need a pair of scissors with the effect that you can't use this strap again .... 
[/list]

*My personal conclusion:*The Free Light is a big deal for this price!!! Astonishing that a Swiss product of this high quality level can be so cheap! As I am not a flashlight reviewer I have no star ratings but will give four and a half smilies of five (five smilies only if it would have a continious on function)












.). And this personal rating is not because it is a Swiss product - it gets it only because it is an excellent manufactured and outstanding product!


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## Bushman (Apr 15, 2002)

mabey TTS would consider being a USA dealer for this product... I would take one if they had it!!~


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## Darell (Apr 15, 2002)

Well, the JPG finally arrived. Yay. Sure wish I knew what was going on with my email!


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## remuen (Apr 15, 2002)

Darell, thank you for posting the picture


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## Graham (Apr 15, 2002)

Coool..

I want one too. Man, a solar powered LED keyring light. Rene, can you find out if this company can accept overseas orders via email or something? I imagine that you don't want to get caught up trying to order these for all of us maniacs.. 

I really love stuff that is self charging and/or will run forever, in theory. That's why I like glowrings (ok, but 10 years is still pretty good), and my titanium Seiko Kinetic watch..

Graham


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## MY (Apr 15, 2002)

Yes, I think that this is a request for TTS to be a distributor. 

Mr. TTS, what do you think?


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## Spidey82 (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*The most tricky thing in my test was a short runtime test. After ten minutes of continious runnig (then I had to stop because of 'burning' finger muscles



)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

U can try to use a clip of cloth peg to press down the button


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>the LED had still the same brightness - at least for my eyes because I have no light meter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


U can compare it with your photon....


one more thing, the led in the picture seems small, is it a 3mm or 5mm???
Linfeng


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## Darell (Apr 15, 2002)

Hmm. Good point about the LED size. That thing must be 3mm, or the lanyard is HUGE.


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## lightlover (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*... I'm not a flashlight reviewer but I took the whole risk of loosing the money I payed for it and made a few simple but hard tests.
......*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remuen,
you ARE a flashlight reviewer now.
Not only that, but: a hero-member of CPF, for risking the WfrsrkLEDlwlc for the edification of all.

TTS,
do you hear your people calling you ?

lightlover

I want to buy a Swiss light from a Texan, and have it shipped to the UK ......


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## Graham (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous ?:
*
I want to buy a Swiss light from a Texan, and have it shipped to the UK ...... *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lets not even go there..

Here's an Australian who wants a Swiss light from a Texan, shipped to Japan..





Graham


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## Graham (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Hmm. Good point about the LED size. That thing must be 3mm, or the lanyard is HUGE.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the specs Rene posted say that it uses a Nichia S Rank 6800 mcd LED, so I think it must be 5mm.. I don't know if they make a 3mm with that kind of output. The only 3mm whites I've seen here in Japan all have outputs of around 2000mcd, from memory.

Graham


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## Brock (Apr 15, 2002)

Hummmm, then this light must be larger then I hoped for. We need some pic compared to a Photon, or a quarter or something.


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## remuen (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*
I want one too. Man, a solar powered LED keyring light. Rene, can you find out if this company can accept overseas orders via email or something? I imagine that you don't want to get caught up trying to order these for all of us maniacs.. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To demonstrate your interest: Why don't you all email them directly ( [email protected] )? Then it's not only me urging them to act (or react?) ... IMO most business people don't really realize that here in the CPF one has to act very fast - there is no time for making a market research and a marketing strategy.

But as I wrote in an earlier post I would be willing to help you. I'll come back on this topic. 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MY:
*
Yes, I think that this is a request for TTS to be a distributor. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, William, what do you think about selling this keychain flashlight?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
U can try to use a clip of cloth peg to press down the button
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be honest: I took a small metall clip I use for holding things when soldering





<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
U can compare it with your photon....
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I would compare it with a Photon the Free Light would get brighter after ten minutes



. Therefore I compared it with an ARC AAA. But I'm not really sure wether I would notice if the one or the other would be a few mcd dimmer after a certain time. I thought about taking my photo camera to measure the brightness but didn't.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
one more thing, the led in the picture seems small, is it a 3mm or 5mm???
*

Originally posted by darell:
*
Hmm. Good point about the LED size. That thing must be 3mm, or the lanyard is HUGE.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The diameter of the LED is 4.5mm, the size of the flashlight 55 x 28.5 x 9.5mm so it's really not huge.


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## Graham (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*To demonstrate your interest: Why don't you all email them directly ( [email protected] )? *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoops. Didn't notice the email address you mentioned in the earlier post.

Well, anyway, just sent off an email asking about orders from outside of Switzerland. Hope they can answer in English..

Graham


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## Darell (Apr 15, 2002)

If they answer in Swiss, I'll bet we can find somebody to translate.

Let's see... we should have Japanese, Chinese, Swiss, German, English, American and Australian covered.





I've just sent an email too...


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## lightlover (Apr 15, 2002)

I've mailed TTS, perhaps he can deal with this ?

lightlover


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## remuen (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous ?:
*
you ARE a flashlight reviewer now.
Not only that, but: a hero-member of CPF, for risking the WfrsrkLEDlwlc for the edification of all.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm definitly not a flashlight reviewer because I had to buy this flashlight means to pay for it. The postman didn't ring twice when I was sitting on a certain place








<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*
... Well, the specs Rene posted say that it uses a Nichia S Rank 6800 mcd LED, so I think it must be 5mm.. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I didn't post it separatly but I made an add on in my second post saying: 
_*I've got a new email from Avexa with a correction: The LED in the Free Light is a Nichia R Rank (4800 - 5600 - 6800 mcd at If=20mA). The Nichia S Rank LED mentioned before was a mistake in their first email I've got from them.*_ 

So please don't blame me. Btw, the mcd figures are posted as I got them from Avexa. And it is a 5mm LED as posted before.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
*
Hummmm, then this light must be larger then I hoped for. We need some pic compared to a Photon, or a quarter or something.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I posted it before: The size of the flashlight is 55 x 28.5 x 9.5mm (the length of ~55mm does include the LED).

I've no digital camera and no website. But let's see, maybe I can arrange something ... If I could make some pictures someone would have to post them (maybe darell again so we would have a picture of a Swiss light token in Switzerland and posted in Japan from an Australian and seen in America and China and ...)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
If they answer in Swiss, I'll bet we can find somebody to translate. Let's see... we should have Japanese, Chinese, Swiss, German, English, American and Australian covered.




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, no problem. If you're translating it from Swiss German into Chinese I'll make the translation from Chinese into Japanese and Graham could translate it into German so we will probably understand what Avexa will write in English ...


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## remuen (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
*
Hummmm, then this light must be larger then I hoped for. We need some pic compared to a Photon, or a quarter or something.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

OK I could make some pictures showing the Free Light together with my ARC LE (which you for sure all know) and such a small SAK I always carry on my keyring. The Photon is on my wife's keyring.

*Darell:*
Could you please post also these pictures? I'll send them to you. Thanks in advance.

_Btw, these pics are the proof that the Free Light has survived my bathroom test!_


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## remuen (Apr 16, 2002)

-
*To all interested in buying a Free Light keychain light:*
As mentioned earlier I would be willing to deliver you some of these Free Lights. Details will follow if nothing else (TTS?



) happens.

Would a price of $23 - $25 per Free Light inclusive shipment costs to North America be acceptable for you? As far as I have seen the shipment to Japan and other countries costs about the same as to the USA. And how many pieces would I have to buy? My tools shop would also have to order them because they have only a few pieces in stock. Could you give me an idea about the quantitiy? Depending on this quantity I could maybe get a better price (at least one box which contains about 20 to 25 pieces)

*William Zermeno (from TTS):*
If you have followed this thread and if YOU would like to sell the Free Lights then I don't want to compete you. I would do it only as a favour for our CPF friends here because it seems some of them really want to have this keychain light. Please let us know what you will do.


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## Graham (Apr 16, 2002)

That sounds good to me. Although I'm not sure how we could work out payment..

I haven't received a reply from the manufacturer yet - if they reply perhaps they can do something?

Graham


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## remuen (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*
That sounds good to me. Although I'm not sure how we could work out payment..
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will make a suggestion for this as soon as I have put together all facts and figures

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*
I haven't received a reply from the manufacturer yet - if they reply perhaps they can do something?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't get either an answer since sunday morning. Maybe Mr. Ackermann is on a holiday (it's holiday time here in Switzerland)?

_Btw, how does one use this 'either' in this meaning?



This was only a try to use it correctly



. English is not as easy even billions of children all over the world speak it quite good



_


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## JollyRoger (Apr 16, 2002)

Remuen, if TTS does not want to do this, maybe we can set up another thread for orders so you know how many? Or we can email you if that's better....


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## remuen (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JollyRoger:
*Remuen, if TTS does not want to do this, maybe we can set up another thread for orders so you know how many? Or we can email you if that's better....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I still hope William from TTS is interested. Let's see wether he has heard us calling for his help

Added later:
In case William is not interested an own thread only for orders (or announcements of orders) is a good idea


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## Spidey82 (Apr 16, 2002)

I wan one...
But i would like to see some photo of size and output first before making the move.
Linfeng


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## Darell (Apr 16, 2002)

More photos you want, more you get. These just in:

(*** removed the one that Rene used for the opening post ***)


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## Darell (Apr 16, 2002)

I'd probably take two if we work out a group deal. And yes Rene - you may certainly link to any of the images in your opening post.

- Darell


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## Darell (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*I didn't get either an answer since sunday morning. Maybe Mr. Ackermann is on a holiday (it's holiday time here in Switzerland)?

Btw, how does one use this 'either' in this meaning?



This was only a try to use it correctly



. English is not as easy even billions of children all over the world speak it quite good



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I meant to comment on this earlier. You almost got it right. Here's how it would be used to make the most sense:
"Since sunday morning, I haven't gotten an answer either."

And some of us in the US attempt to speak the language "well." (vs. good).





You're doing a great job with the language. Seriously.

- Darell


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## remuen (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
But i would like to see some photo of size and output first before making the move
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you mean the light output then I have to say sorry because I don't have a own digital camera. For making the other pics I had to ask a friend to lend me his camera for a few minutes. And I had no dark room to make some photographs of the beam (and also no time because I took these pics in the office). You see I'm definitly not a flashlight reviewer 



. 
But believe me: The Free Light is bright - almost as bright as my ARC AAA but for sure not as bright as the ARC LE. On a scale I would say 100 for the ARC LE, 92 for the ARC AAA and 88 for the Free Light. 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
More photos you want, more you get ....... you may certainly link to any of the images in your opening post.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, Darell





<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
I meant to comment on this earlier. You almost got it right. Here's how it would be used to make the most sense:
"Since sunday morning, I haven't gotten an answer either."
And some of us in the US attempt to speak the language "well." (vs. good). 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for this English lesson



Could well be that you gave me the same lesson earlier but you know if one gets older it's harder to learn and to remember



. Sometimes it makes me really angry when I want to say some everyday things but don't know how



. 

And a special thank you to you ("thank you very much indeed" I have learned in good old England many years ago) for your compliment


----------



## remuen (Apr 16, 2002)

This evening Mr. Ackermann from Avexa called me. He has got all our emails. 

First of all: Avexa has not the possibility to deliver their Free Lights to end users. He suggested to make a bulk order and is willing to offer a special price. So the price for a Free Light inclusive shipment would only be about $20. I can't tell it exactly now because they have another (heavier and better) packing and therefore I have first to check the shipment packing and costs again (I just did this today for the old packing).

*A few background informations about Avexa:*
Avexa has already sold about 20'000 Free Lights here in Europe mainly to companies as gifts. They now putting more effort into building up a sales distribution to end users. 

Mr. Ackermann is the developper of the Free Light, he is working with LEDs/optoelectronics and solar electronics since more than 10 years. With the Free Light they wanted to proof that it is possible to make a high quality product here in Switzerland even our county is a very expensive working place with high costs. They seem to be very innovative also in their production methods because according to Mr. Ackermann a production in Far East (eg. Hongkong) would be more expensive provided the quality has to be on the same high level.

Mr. Ackermann seems to be open for suggestions but seems also to be very busy (I've got his first emails on saturday and sunday and now this phone call tonight at 8:00 pm). So I accept this as an excuse for him not replying on every email within a few minutes. He seems to be in a similar situation as PG.


----------



## machspass (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*I didn't get either an answer since sunday morning.

Btw, how does one use this 'either' in this meaning?



This was only a try to use it correctly



. English is not as easy even billions of children all over the world speak it quite good



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also wanted to comment on this too, Rene. Your English is quite good, probably better than my German. You're right, the older you are, the harder it is to learn a foreign language. I envy children for their fast learning capabilities. I worked hard to learn German, and am proud to say, that I was able to carry on conversations in German with my colleagues in Frankfurt while I was there, as long as they didn't talk too fast.




Now I fear that if I don't use it, I will forget it!





And now another lesson...





"Either" can mean "auch", zb:
_I didn't get an answer since Sunday morning either._

"Either....or" means "entweder....oder", zb:
_I'll either call him on Sunday or wait until Monday._

Oh yeah, I almost forgot....(sorry, I get sidetracked



)

I would love one of these keychain lights, if you're taking a count of who wants them. I can even pay you in SFR, if you like! I had some left over from when I visited Zurich and Liechtenstein.


----------



## Darell (Apr 16, 2002)

$20 sounds GREAT. Sign me up.

Man, build that little beauty INTO a SAK, and you'd have a really nice setup.


----------



## ChrisA (Apr 16, 2002)

@machspass - i will get either one or two of those. so much for the free english lesson - thank you





they seem to be pretty well built and i'd love to see some beam pics.

chris


----------



## Graham (Apr 16, 2002)

For about $20 I would definitely be in for at least 2. Probably more, if it looked difficult to place orders later.

Any idea how many we need to make up the bulk order? I'm willing to get a couple extra to make it up if necessary - I'm certain I can sell a few to friends here, and put a few away for Christmas this year (Arc AAAs and Glowrings as Christmas gifts last year, this year a Solar Free light - anyone would think I was a flashaholic or something..



)

Graham


----------



## Luff (Apr 16, 2002)

remuen - thanks for keeping us posted on this neat light ... and who says you aren't a flashlight reviewer? Seems you've done a pretty good job in this thread!

If someone puts together a buy, I'd like to purchase one.


----------



## Evan (Apr 16, 2002)

I'd like one, too. I also might buy a few extras to help a group buy make the minimum -- what is the minimum?

I'm offering to do some of the remailing work, I'm not up to dealing with all the aspects of a group buy myself. I could get some experience helping out. But I'm not a Texan


----------



## Lonewolf (Apr 16, 2002)

For $20 bucks I am also in for 1-2. I don't think we will have a problem reaching the minimum number needed for an order.


----------



## MY (Apr 16, 2002)

Count me in for two.

Thanks in advance for all the work.


----------



## remuen (Apr 16, 2002)

Hi folks

Do you know what your are doing to me with all your interest? Oh god, this means work, a lot of work ...





Sorry to all of you but this morning (yes, here it is now about 5:45 AM CET) I have no time to respond to all your posts. I'm heading a long and hard business day and have now to prepare my work. I will come back an all this tonight. Please be patient


----------



## Brock (Apr 17, 2002)

I think the easiest way to get these would be to get mr. TTS involved. It might cost us a bit more, but it would be a LOT of work for a person to get them, front the bill, and then resend them to everyone. 

In any case I _need_ one


----------



## STC (Apr 17, 2002)

In any case I need one . Thanks Brock. I just wanted one, but now I need another, so count me in for at least two.


----------



## prn (Apr 17, 2002)

Brock's right. René is not the right distribution point. The right thing is to get them shipped in bulk to the US and then split up. TTS (or another dealer if William is not interested) would already be set up for this sort of thing. Making a bit of profit on the deal is only right. That's what capitalism is good for, after all. I'd bet that it wouldn't even work out to be (much) more expensive than getting René to ship them individually from Switzerland (and a LOT less hassle for René



). 

Paul


----------



## remuen (Apr 17, 2002)

Ok, here I am again. This was a long working day from 6:00 AM to 8:00 PM CET and I'm really tired but try to give my best in answering questions and commenting. Let's begin:


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by machspass:
*
I also wanted to comment on this too, Rene. ......
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Something in German so you won't forget everything you've learned:
Vielen herzlichen Danke für Deine zusätzliche Englisch-Lektion






. Und falls der Handel mit dem Free Light zustande kommt, kannst Du either in SFr or in USD zahlen ....

I must say: Posting in German would be much easier and faster for me! 


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
Man, build that little beauty INTO a SAK, and you'd have a really nice setup. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you know that the small SAK on my pics is also available with a integrated LED? The Swiss cross is then the switch. Victorinox (the one with the better knives) has only a 3mm red LED, Wenger (the one with the lower quality knives) does deliver one with a white 3mm LED.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ChrisA:
*
they seem to be pretty well built and i'd love to see some beam pics. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hallo Chris, ein herzliches Willkomm nach Deutschland!

As mentioned earlier, I'm not able to take some beam shots (I've to say it again: I'm not a flashlight reviewer even some of you want me to be one



). But maybe one of our reviewer will take some pics? I don't know wether they have to order a Free Light and to pay for it like we ordinary flashaholics or if somebody will send one to them? The quality of the housing seems to be very good (Swiss made



).

Concerning your question in your email: I own the Free Light since last friday and the LED has hopyfully not to many scratches. More about scratching the LEDs see in my amateur review. 


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BeamRider:
*
and who says you aren't a flashlight reviewer? 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ask our reviewers! They would be very dissapointed being compared with such a greenhorn like me. But even I would have the knowlegde and all the equipment I wouldn't have the time to do it. 


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*
I'm offering to do some of the remailing work, I'm not up to dealing with all the aspects of a group buy myself. I could get some experience helping out. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any help is appreciated and welcome. What do YOU suggest? My suggestion will follow below in a own post.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*
I don't think we will have a problem reaching the minimum number needed for an order. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. Ackermann von Avexa told me that he will give as the special price independent from the quantity. So we don't have a minimum order quantity.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
*
I think the easiest way to get these would be to get mr. TTS involved. It might cost us a bit more, but it would be a LOT of work for a person to get them, front the bill, and then resend them to everyone. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO involving William seems not as easy. But as I promised I am still willing to make this job. Hope one of you will help me if I need something from 'overseas' (



)


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by prn:
*
TTS (or another dealer if William is not interested) would already be set up for this sort of thing. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A way to force these people to be interested is creating the demand for the Free Light. But I'm sure if all of you have got your first Free Light you are going to create this demand (a marketing manager would call this a pull strategy) ..


----------



## remuen (Apr 17, 2002)

Ok, today I had not the possibility to go to the postal office and asking for the cheapest shiping cost. The other problem is the new packing of the Free Light. Probably I have also to take another shipment packing because it seems that we can't use the cheaper flat rate envelope any more. But I think we should take this packing because the Free Light is better protected. Mr. Ackermann promised to send me a sample so I can check what will be the best. But I think the $20 inclusive shipment I mentioned yesterday are still OK. Possibly $1 more.

*How could we make this deal?*
IMO the problem is the payment as some of you already mentioned. I don't want to make a profit out of this deal but alos not a loss. Unfortunatly I cannot offer you the possibility to pay with your CC or paying via PayPal or something else. So there is only one way: You're going to send me the money in a letter.

I would suggest that you are posting exactly which quantitiy you are ordering. After I figured out the correct price you are sending me the money in a letter (machspass, payments in Swiss Francs are welcome). After receiving the money I am going to order the Free Lights. And to be sure they all work I will make a short test (not the bathroom test



) before I will ship them to your adress.

I think we should put a dead line date for this means that your payment has to be here latest xx-xx-2002.

I know this means that you have to trust me. At least I am trusting me





Has anyone a better solution? 

*Supposed ordering quantities*
I just tried to figure out how many pieces we need. Please change your figure if you have changed your mind. To make it easier for me I would suggest that you copy this list and post it again in your thread with the changed amount or with your name added on it. Then the Last post should always contain the actual figure. I'm wondering if this works - but you will proof now that you are the greatest on earth ....

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 2
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 1
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)

All of you not listed here won't get a Free Light






- except they are sending me the money for it. And all listed here but don't send the money will not get a Free Light too.


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 17, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 2
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)


----------



## Graham (Apr 17, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 4
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)


----------



## AndyJ (Apr 17, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 4
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1


----------



## Spidey82 (Apr 17, 2002)

Hey Remuen,
I live in singapore, can u check out the shipment????


----------



## Andrew (Apr 17, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 4
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1


----------



## Darell (Apr 17, 2002)

Wow. We're looking at 26 already. Not too shabby. Ol' Graham had to get in there and order more than anybody else, I see. Probably use them as wedding favors if I know him. I have half a mind (pretty obvious sometimes) to outbid him and buy five. But I'll wait a bit and see how this all shakes out...

Hmmm. These'd sure go nice with a glow ring, huh?


----------



## Graham (Apr 17, 2002)

Well, as I said earlier, I'm pretty sure I can find homes for a few extra. And since we don't know when we might be able to order them again (don't think we want to intrude on Rene's generosity), probably better to get 1 or 2 extra.

In fact, the more time I have to think about it, the more I'd probably order..

Graham


----------



## Graham (Apr 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
Hmmm. These'd sure go nice with a glow ring, huh?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey...I wonder if the solar cell would actually gather any charge from a glowring..
I would guess not, or so miniscule as not to matter. But imagine what a pair it would make... an LED based light that would last 10 years with no external power source..

Or, the worlds first Nuclear(?) LED light..

Graham


----------



## springnr (Apr 17, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 4
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1


----------



## Brock (Apr 17, 2002)

I think this is a great offer, but I think it would be silly to ship all these packages overseas. I think it would be easier for someone in the states to get them and resend them. William at TTS are you here? Who has his personal email. I bet he would do it. I mean I am willing so send the $ over to you, but won't it cost a bunch to send these lights back to all of us? And what about the currency, I doubt you will want our US cash, can you cash our checks over there?

Again I am not trying to be negative and really appreciate the offer, but I also don't want you to pull all your hair out over us.


----------



## Evan (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm not too keen on sending cash in international mail; its not really a good idea to do it domestically. There's got to be a better way -- didn't Switzerland practically invent international banking?

How many in a case? We all may want to adjust the quantities a bit to make it come out even.

One way I might help is that if a case were sent to me along with a postage allowance and a mailing list, I'd break it into individual lots and mail them.


----------



## Darell (Apr 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
* William at TTS are you here? Who has his personal email. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[email protected]

I'd email him, but for the past two weeks there has been some cosmic void between our email accounts. All attempts have failed.


----------



## Xenon (Apr 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*[email protected]

I'd email him, but for the past two weeks there has been some cosmic void between our email accounts. All attempts have failed.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did get a reply from TTS a few days back, but wondering was that William at the other end.


----------



## remuen (Apr 18, 2002)

Another huge post but a bit later today because I got up later this morning. And the early morning hours (CET) are the ones I usually read and post in the CPF. 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
I live in singapore, can u check out the shipment????
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as I have seen the shipment costs are the same.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*
Or, the worlds first Nuclear(?) LED light..
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't carry such a bomb with me







<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
*
William at TTS are you here? Who has his personal email. I bet he would do it. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few days ago I emailed him too but didn't get a reply which is very unusual. Does anyone know where William is?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
*
I mean I am willing so send the $ over to you, but won't it cost a bunch to send these lights back to all of us? And what about the currency, I doubt you will want our US cash, can you cash our checks over there?
Again I am not trying to be negative and really appreciate the offer, but I also don't want you to pull all your hair out over us.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It will certainly take some time to do this job but I've already invested much more time in this thread than I intended to do. I only wanted to inform you CPF fellows about the news here in Switzerland (thank god there are not to many news here because it seems I am still the only Swiss in this forum). As long as I do not have to send these lights to 50 or hundred different recepiants it's OK

I have already considered that I have to change back the dollars into Swiss Francs. 


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*
I'm not too keen on sending cash in international mail; its not really a good idea to do it domestically. There's got to be a better way -- didn't Switzerland practically invent international banking?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These financial transactions possibilities are more for the big business and the poor Americans who don't want to pay their taxes






. You see I'm not a banker but as a sales engineer for access control systems I do see from time to time the real money and the gold in their tresors. Have you ever seen millions and billions and trillions of dollars or in my case Swiss Francs? I did. Since then I'm dreaming making the big money too with selling flashlights





To be honest I didn't check this possibility as usualy they take a certain amount of the money for their service. I will ask my bank how they would handle it. With checks I had some troubles in the past - and the bank does charge me with a certain percentage of the sum for handling them.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*
One way I might help is that if a case were sent to me along with a postage allowance and a mailing list, I'd break it into individual lots and mail them. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is a postage allowance?

This help would be very appreciated



. But then we would have to make some other arrangements. 

Eg. I would do the other international shipments to Japan and Singapore and Germany as posted yesterday means these fellows would order directly from me and pay to me and I would send the lights directly to them.

You would collect the orders (and payments) from all our Americans fellows, order from me (and pay to me) and would send the lights alltogether in one single packing to you. Probably this would make the payment easier for all of us. In this case the shipment to you would be certainly much cheaper per light but you had to add your domestic shipment costs. If we would do it in this way I would send you the necessary informations about the packing of the Free Light (dimensions and weight) as soon as I have them. 

Ordering from me seems to be necessary because - as I wrote earlier - Avexa does usually not deliver to end users. As I live here in Switzerland their financial risk would be much lower than with deliveries to the USA.

Let me hear what you think about it.


----------



## Graham (Apr 18, 2002)

I got a reply back from Emil at Avexa, indicating that although they do not normally sell to 'end-users', as there is no dealer/distributor in Japan, they would be willing to sell directly to me. 

However, I get the idea I'd have to do an international bank transfer to pay for it. I'll see what sort of pricing etc he will offer. 
Perhaps I could take care of the orders for people outside the US? Postage from Japan is actually quite cheap for small packets via airmail (about US$2). If this would make it easier for Rene..

Graham


----------



## remuen (Apr 18, 2002)

I do hope I have now all the necessary information. I have also got the sample of the packing. There is something I have to correct: The old packing of the Fre Light is not really old but the standard one (a plastic bag). According to Avexa they would send me the lights in a small carton box used for presents. This does also include a manual (it is not really a manual but more a small piece of paper) in English with the necessary instructions and informations. Look at this as a special service for the CPF members together with the special price we got.

As I can send the lights still in a priority flat rate envelope as originally planned the whole thing would not cost me too much time and I could handle this except I would get a few hundred orders.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>*Prices*Here are the prices which would include the shipment:

1 Free Light US$ 19.-
2 Free Lights US$ 37.-
3 Free Lights US$ 54.- 
4 Free Lights US$ 74.- (here I have to use a bigger envelope)
5 Free Lights US$ 91.-

These prices will (hopefully) cover all the costs inclusive the envelope and the shipment in a priority flat rate envelope. They are based on the current exchange rate. I have considered that I have to change the USD back into Swiss Francs. The prices do also include the additional charges of my bank for a bank transfer. And the prices do also include a small sum to make me rich



- sorry, to cover a part of my expenses.

Please note: There is no insurance included. So if you want them to be insured you would have to add US$ 6.- to these prices.

<LI>*Payment*
The payment could be done as suggested be Evan with an international bank transfer. There is only one important point: Please make sure that YOUR bank does not charge ME with some expenses or whatever else. This is not included in my prices!

<LI>*Ordering*
Your psots give me an idea about the quantity needed. But please send me an email with your order and your complete shipment adress and the additional informations (eg. with/without insurance). I will reply your email and sending you the information for the bank transfer (clearing No and whatever else is needed) because I don't want to publish them here.
And then please advice your bank to make the payment.

*I would say that we are going to set the dead line for this as per 04-30-2002 so then my bank should have got your money transfer.*

I'll then keep you informed about the date of the shipments.

<LI>*Additional services*
As you certainly understand I can't offer any additional services except that I would charge the Free Lights for a few hours (hope the sun will shine) and make a short test. Of course I will try to help you in case of any troubles.
[/list]

Looking at this I think I would not need any help - the most work gives me this thread



. Ordering and shipping the Free Lights will not cause too much additional work and as I do have your adresses I could prepare everything in advance.


----------



## Luff (Apr 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*Payment*
The payment could be done as suggested be Evan with an international bank transfer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My last International bank wire transfer to Australia in February cost me $60 in bank fees. 

The only ways I know of to avoid those fees without sending cash are by using Visa, PayPal, personal or corporate check, international money order or traveler's check ... and each of those pose their own problems for remuen (although I think a money order would be relatively easy to use on both ends).

So, since I don't know how to avoid wire transfer fees and the only other options I know about aren't great, I'll appreciate any help or suggestions on how to keep the money transfer fees from being a deal-killer.

And, remuen, thank you for putting this deal together for us!


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

Yes,bank transfer/wire fees can be costly sometimes. If you're talking transferring thousands of dollars quickly and safely, it makes sense...but for individuals to each make a bank transfer/wire...it might not be worth it.

I think Paypal or Citibank's C2it, or some other electronic payment service might make sense. There is only a small percentage charged for the transaction.

If none of these is accepted in Switzerland, then it might make more sense for someone to receive all the payments here (in the U.S.) through Paypal...and then that single person send a wire to remuen???? I don't mind doing this...whoever does do this could check on the wire fees and then ask everyone for another $0.25 or $0.50 or whatever to cover it. This might take a bit longer (not really if all done through Paypal, etc.) but it's probably cheaper overall...and simpler for remuen.
I'm going to check now what electronic payment services work in Switzerland.

EDIT: Okay, it seems like Paypal accepts international accounts...and Switzerland is one of the countries. The only thing is, with Paypal in Switzerland, maybe you cannot withraw from a local bank there...you need to have a U.S. bank to withdraw.
Of course, remuen could always have this paypal account and use the funds received to pay (via paypal) for some other purchase from the U.S.? OK, that was just a suggestion....
C2it accepts payments to Switzerland, via "international check" and "direct deposit." International check might be the better option, as they have a minimum of $250 for direct deposit.

In any case, it might make more sense to send one payment there, then, if Paypal or C2it are not used???


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 18, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 4
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2


----------



## remuen (Apr 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JollyRoger:
*
EDIT: Okay, it seems like Paypal accepts international accounts...and Switzerland is one of the countries. The only thing is, with Paypal in Switzerland, maybe you cannot withraw from a local bank there...you need to have a U.S. bank to withdraw.
Of course, remuen could always have this paypal account and use the funds received to pay (via paypal) for some other purchase from the U.S.? OK, that was just a suggestion....
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just checked how paypal works here in Switzerland. Would be very interesting if only I could withdraw on a Swiss bank which is unfortunatly for sure not possible. Therefore in this case paypal is not a good solution for me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JollyRoger:
*
C2it accepts payments to Switzerland, via "international check" and "direct deposit." International check might be the better option, as they have a minimum of $250 for direct deposit.

In any case, it might make more sense to send one payment there, then, if Paypal or C2it are not used???
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One single payment would make sense. And now the challange: How to do it best? Maybe you as the financial expert among us will find a solution which is good for all of us?


----------



## Terrapin Flyer (Apr 18, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 4
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1

Um, how about PayPal?


----------



## remuen (Apr 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phred:
*phred (1)

add me in (how'd ja do that?)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just copy the list in the last post and add your changes (which is now done by me):

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 4
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

I don't mind receiving Paypal or Yahoo Payment (the equivalent Yahoo service) from everyone here and then sending you one big "group" check, Rene.

Personally, I was going to try to pay you in DM, b/c I have some extra DM from my last trip to Germany...but I know, DM are used in Switzerland! I was just thinking it would be easier for you to exchange than U.S. dollars.

But anyways....
I checked with C2it just now (by the way, for those of you who don't know, c2it is Citibank's version of Paypal, etc.)
It will cost me $10 to send an international check via c2it, or $15 for direct deposit. I was mistaken about the $250 charge I posted above...this is only for certain countries.

So there you have it, payment will be sent in CHF in the form of a check or direct deposit...I think this totally makes sense, compared to each individual trying to do the same thing here in the U.S.....it would just be too expensive for us!

I don't mind doing this...I would just have to charge an extra $0.50 or $1 or so to cover the Paypal expenses and the c2it expenses. But this will be much cheaper for us all.

If you guys want me to do this, we can do this....
Then Rene can setup a c2it account. http://www.c2it.com 

Actually, since the payment will be sent by check or direct deposit into your bank account, Rene, you can hold off on signing up for now....

Let me know guys, if this sounds ok to all of you...(paypal me the funds, I send Rene one lump sum payment, all the packages get mailed to us individually)

-Roger

P.S. Don't worry. I won't run with your money. After all, we're one big happy family here on the CPF!


----------



## Badbeams3 (Apr 18, 2002)

One other idea...if Craig Johnson could do it...then mail everything back to him to be shipped to the homes...would we save even more? I guess I`m thinking we would pay a little more for his trouble over cost...say 5 bucks apiece...that would help give him some spending money for his trip to the next shoot show in Orlando...around $150...maybe more...we all enjoy the fruits of his labor in the form of the LED Musuem. I think we all would like to see Craig make it to the show...even if we can not...he has little money and it will be up to our CPF group to make this happen for him. This might be just the sort of thing we can do to start ensuring success.

Just a thought.

Ken


----------



## Badbeams3 (Apr 18, 2002)

They have glow rings over there in the mother countries don`t they? I don`t suppose???? Maybe I`m asking to much.


----------



## Darell (Apr 18, 2002)

I think you have a winner there, Roger. Sound OK Rene? I'm ready for action, anytime.


----------



## Klaus (Apr 18, 2002)

Just talking to René about another possible option - you guys could/would just mail a check or make a transfer to an US banc account like what you guys are ususally doing - no hassle - no CC - no yahoo or paypal cost or anything - René would be able to draw this dollars directly in SFR from any ATM in Swizerland where milk and chocolate and watches and SAKs and the "Worldwide first regulated solar rechargeable keychain LED light with lithium cell" are flowing





Klaus


----------



## Luff (Apr 18, 2002)

KISS = Keep It Simple (for) Stupid (me)!

JollyRoger's plan makes sense here and it's flexible. Whatever we do has to make sense for remuen and he needs to be okay with it.

On the shipping end, while I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper to send a single box of all USA ordered lights to a domestic distribution point and then reship to individuals ... we'll get the lights faster if remuen ships them individually and the cost difference wouldn't be all that much anyway. I'm guessing we'd still be talking about a $19.50 light (give or take 50¢).

A tip of the hat to those who're being so generous with their time and efforts!


----------



## Brock (Apr 18, 2002)

I like the idea of just sending the $ to Roger via paypal, then have Remuen send them to us, or Roger, it doesn't matter to me.

Just tell me who to paypal



or if I have to send a check I can do that also.


----------



## remuen (Apr 18, 2002)

Sorry, reading all your posts just amused me a bit. But that's the way to come to a solution in such a forum. 

To make the confusion complete or hopefully better to solve it I would suggest that JollyRoger and I are going to share the work as Roger already suggested. He would do the financial things and I could do the shipments to you. 

There are two things to consider some of you maybe didn't see:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> I think for a bulk delivery with a value of about $600 or more you had certainly to pay VAT and/or customs duties. With the smaller and cheaper single deliveries we could avoid this. I already thought of splitting a shipment of 4 or 5 lights into two shipments separatly sent to you.

I mention this because when I order parts abroad I have to look that the value stays always low to avoid these extra costs.

<LI>There are also some Europeans and Asiens among us. I already got some orders by email from Europeans which prefer another way of paying (you know paypal and whatever else is not as common here as in America). So the worst case would be that someone of you does import the bulk order, pays the US VAT and taxes and had then to export teh lights again to the Europeans and Asions who had to pay again their VAT and taxes. Seems not to make sense to me especially when I consider that the shipment costs from the USA at least to Switzerland are quite high - and as far as I read in other threads also to all other countries. 
[/list]

Sharing the work as suggested Roger and I could agree separatly on how to do the payment to me. *If Roger still agrees on this we should settle this down as the final decision and go forward with ordering*. Another point: As I have already calculated some bank charges for your payments Roger would not have to extra charge you for the paypal costs - at least when the don't raise much higher than the $20 he mentioned. He just could keep these $20.


_Btw, isn't it funny that we are argueing about who may do the work?_


----------



## Klaus (Apr 18, 2002)

René et al,

I didn´t wanted to interfer with JollyRoger - my mail exchange with René and my posting was after I saw René posting suggesting international wire transfers - having been there and having done such transactions befor I knew that one transfer is pretty much the cost of the light already and wouldn´t make any sense - if you guys can handle things "internally" so-to-say - perfect !

Klaus


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

Sounds good. Seems like it might be faster and (perhaps cheaper, considering no VAT) for Remuen to ship these to the end user?

Perhaps it might make sense for Remuen to make one shipment to individuals that live near each other...for example, I think I read somewhere that Quickbeam and Aragorn live near each other. This is just an example. (Not that they did or didn't order these lights...just an example.) In these instances, maybe one order can be made for two people, etc. (worked out by the individuals to reduce work and confusion on my and Rene's part--the two, or three, or more individuals decide amongst themselves what the shipping address is. I don't mind accepting multiple paypals.). This might be worth it to reduce shipping, to those people...or it might not be worth the trouble....

I think Paypal might charge me a small fee to receive payments, since I have a premium account? Was it 3% + $0.30? In any case, it's small...and I'll be honest with what extra $$ I charge. It won't be much in any case. Think of something in the ballpark of $20 or $25 (including the international payment fee to Rene) divided by 30+ people...less than or about $1 more per order??? Anyways, just a guesstimate. I think the total cost will probably be under $22????

I could go ahead with this when people are ready....maybe we can wait until the 30th? Then I can tell Rene how many orders I have?

You guys can also specify in the "note" section in your paypal payment how many lights, etc....so this can be conveyed to Rene..and so you'll have proof of the order.


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

That said, I can't wait to test these lights out! Integrated solar charger....oooohhh...aaaahhh.....





Hmmm..maybe I'll order 4....or 5! Darell, are you going to "one-up" me, whatever number I order?


----------



## Graham (Apr 18, 2002)

Well, I decided that I'm going to get 5..

Graham


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

OK, then. I'll get 6!

haha!

just kidding...sort of...

Well, let's get moving ahead with this. I just got an email from René suggesting we should get going...

Here is the plan:

We will continue with the order list on this thread...as was happening....but there will have to be a cutoff date. I can wait until the 30th, as suggested by René, but I'm getting impatient...hehe...





If nobody disagrees, how about moving up the final order date to next Monday? But seriously, it's up to all CPF members. After all, this is a group order. I'll probably order some extras for late comers that missed this buy, so this might make it easier for people to agree to speed up the deadline?

Once the order list is final, I'll calculate the price (after I get a price indication from René, I'll add a bit for my expenses. This will most likely be a "maximum amount" scenario, to prevent me from losing any money. I just talked to my broker, Charles Schwab, and I can wire funds directly to René's bank account for a flat fee of $35. I will charge you guys this amount, plus the transaction fee for Paypal once I know how many orders. Of course, the more orders (coming from different individuals?), the cheaper it will be for each one....again, I don't expect it to be more than $1 or $2 more per unit.

This is all the make things quick and avoid having to come back and ask you guys..."can I get $0.50 more from everyone?" I think it's fair....yes? (remember, the $35 + paypal fees are being distributed to everyone).

Now comes another question...should I distribute this cost to each individual ordering, or to each unit? René, what do you think? On your end, it seems like one would save $$ from postage if more units were ordered....
If you guys think I should distribute the cost to each unit...then this is fine. A person that orders one will get the same price as a person that orders 4....and the person that orders 4 will only save in shipping. What do you guys think?

So how about a cut-off date of something soon? It seems like most people have put their order in....and we should give this weekend for others to see the thread...yes?
(and plus, I'm ordering some extras for late-comers...)

After the order list is closed, I'll let you know when to start sending me paypal payments and for how much per unit.

How about a cutoff date of the night of April 22nd (Monday)?? Say, 9pm or so?


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

To get the list going again...
I put in 6 for you, Graham...

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 5
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1

Another thing, I read Rene's post again with the price descriptions...So expect to pay those prices plus a small premium per unit for my paypal and wire costs (to be determined once the list is final). As of now, expect to add about $2 to your order...but hopefully this will go down if we get more people ordering...

OK, I've spent way too much time on this forum today! Time to do some work...


----------



## dat2zip (Apr 18, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
Graham 5
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1


----------



## Graham (Apr 18, 2002)

Roger,

Best not to include mine in your order, since I think it would be easier if Rene shipped mine directly to me. It would also be simpler for me to pay him directly, since I don't have paypal anyway..
I've already emailed him to this effect..

Graham


----------



## Spidey82 (Apr 18, 2002)

I see if i can get a money order from my bank directly in SFr, in that case, i don't have to change to USD and den remuen change it to SFr...
How abt that??? but how long will air mail take???
Linfeng


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

Ok, Graham...I'm taking your order off for now.

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1


Remember, guys, this group thing only makes sense if lots of people are going to participate....

If any of you don't have paypal, please sign up via this link below:

https://www.paypal.com/refer/pal=4GE289PQUH5KN

I get $5 for each new referral that signs up. If enough people sign up, maybe I won't even have to charge the extra $$$!!! That would be the best.





As for the added fees, I get charged 2.9% + $0.30 for each payment received. This is b/c I signed up to have a premier account b/c at one point Paypal wouldn't let me accept more than $100 or something per month???so I had to upgrade....anyways, the benefit for you is that you guys can pay via credit card and I can accept it. (Standard accounts don't get charged a fee to receive money but can't accept credit cards.)

So what this means is for a 1 light order, that's $19. The paypal fees would be $0.551 + $0.30 for a total of $0.85. Add to this $35 (max) divided by the number of lights ordered...

If we can get 40 orders, that's another $0.875 each. So that's less than $2. I might just round it up to $2, or it might be (hopefully) less if we can get more orders and people sign up with the paypal link provided above.

What do you guys think? This will be cheap if a lot of people do it, but if we all decide to go our separate ways...then...I guess I just wasted a lot of time writing all these messages today.....


----------



## Graham (Apr 18, 2002)

Roger,

Don't take my move as 'jumping ship' - its just that my impression was that the all-in-one shipping was mainly for the US people since they are probably the largest group.

In my case there isn't anything to be gained by having mine shipped to the US with all of yours - I would have the same difficulty sending money to the US as I would to Rene directly. The same is probably true for those members in Europe - I somehow doubt that they will want theirs shipped to the US and back again..

Anyway, best for Rene to confirm this before it gets too confusing..

Graham


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

NO, no, no, Graham. No harm taken. I know it's easier for you...and that makes sense, too...I just didn't want this to start a trend...b/c then we wouldn't have a group buy.


----------



## mekki (Apr 18, 2002)

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1


----------



## Evan (Apr 18, 2002)

It has occurred to me that if a case of lights comes thru US customs, they'd probably add a fee, but if 20 little orders came thru it probably wouldn't be worth the trouble. Just a thought.





Why has noone mentioned the Euro? Wasn't it supposed to help so, say, an order from Germany wouln't need to concider an exchange.





Anyway, I'm confused. What is the current scheeme? Who do I send a check to and where would I expect a package from?


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 18, 2002)

OK, things got a bit confusing, I guess...





Here's the deal. You pay me (when the time comes) via Paypal. I collect all the payments and wire the money to Rene. Rene, in turn ships directly to you...no need to worry about a big shipment getting caught in customs. Rene can just label it as a "gift," since it sort of is...with all this effort going into it!

Most of the orders being handled by me are probably going to be from the U.S. and Canada, although I'll gladly accept any Paypal payments and pass them on the Rene.


----------



## remuen (Apr 18, 2002)

Hello good morning all together

Things start moving



I just changed the title of this thread into Group Buy: ..... so I can imagine some more will join us here.

I think what JollyRoger suggested is the way to go: 

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>*Orders from North America:*

At least all North Americans should make their payment via CC or paypal or whatever else to JollyRoger. Make sure he has all the necessary informations as quantitiy, with/without insurance (the insurance costs $6 extra per shipment) and your complete shipment adress. He will forward this order to me per email. I will later on ship the lights to each single individual - also when they are from other countries.

Concerning the additional costs (fees): I have included about $0.60 for the fees of my bank (3%). Maybe it helps that in this case JollyRoger can make use of this amount for his fees? Roger, I think you should publish the prices for the light including all your fees so people know exactly what they have to pay to you.

<LI>*Orders from other countries:*

Members outside of North America can (if they want) order directly from me amd also pay directly to me. But make sure that I will not be charged with fees from your bank! Such fees are not included in the prices I mentioned!

In this case I would also accept your payments in Swiss Francs (prefered) or Euro. I will publish the prices also in these currencies later.

<LI>*End date for orders*

JollyRoger suggested: How about a cutoff date of the night of April 22nd (Monday)?? Say, 9pm or so? I would say that we fix this date (22-04-2002 09:00pm as dead line date for your orders. 

<LI>Just to keep us informed: 
I have created this list below. Copy this list from the last post of a flashoholic, add your changes to it and post it again. The next one will copy the list you have posted and add his changes and post it again and so on:

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
[/list]


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 19, 2002)

I proposed Paypal, etc. just so people would be able to use their credit cards to pay (me or anyone else doing this). There is an added safety factor this way--not that the person responsible for handling all the money and sending Rene a payment would do anything foolish...but just adding the safety factor...plus, people w/o cash right now will be able to buy 2 or 3 or 4, etc.

After the payment is received, I proposed c2it as a method for paying Rene (in CHF, of course) one lump sum. c2it was mentioned b/c I was aware of it (in no way endorsing it) and it seems that a fee of $10 (for international check) or $15 (for direct deposit) was very reasonable...remember, this is the fee added for all orders as a whole. The total added to each light is minimal.

I didn't check into using my bank account to do a direct wire, but I think this might be more costly (atleast $30, and probably more for international...) I could call later.

While the proposal to have Craig do it is a great one, I'm not sure if $5 should be added. I mean, I totally support Craig going to the show and I definitely want to contribute if funds in any case b/c it would be great to have EVERYONE there...especially Craig....BUT....I don't think the intention of this "group buy" was to raise funds for Craig. I mean, I don't think people who want one of these lights should be "forced" to donate to the fund for Craig. (Not that anyone would feel that way, b/c I myself have no problem doing this...and it's a way of "paying" Craig for services, too....but I was just thinking about everyone in general.) But if Craig would like to do this, I think this is a great idea, just as long as it's okay with everyone. But be prepared to go to the post office to mail packages upon packages, Craig!!!

The reason I jumped to offer this was b/c early on, when Rene first mentioned this light, I contacted the manufacturer and asked if I could do a bulk order...of 40 or so lights...for you guys.....but since Rene went through all this trouble to set everything up this far, I think we should go that route. We just need the distribution point in the U.S. and I'm offering this.

So if there is a better way to do this, great. If not, I don't mind offering my services. But I think the quickest, cheapest method should be used. I am, however, up for doing whatever is the "best." Best, meaning...the best for all CPF members and the consensus.

Whew! That was long....sorry...just got back from lunch and this Chinese food is really starting to make me sleeeeepy....


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*
Craig (the LED Museum):Who will be the worldwide first flashlight tester who will test this unique keychain flashlight?




[/i]*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It probably isn't going to be me. I had an emergency come up and my existing funds are now all but gone until after the 3rd of May. 

The 3 year old batteries in my wheelchair decided to crap out. Need to find somebody with a car to go to Sears & pick them up for me; otherwise I'll be out $383 (ordered & shipped through EMC) instead of $130-$140 (picked up directly at Sears). Either way, I'm hosed as far as buying any new lights for awhile.





Looks like it's going to be up to Brock, Chris, or Doug to review one of these and post all the gory details on their webiste.


----------



## Darell (Apr 19, 2002)

I applaud your effords, Roger. Sounds to me like it would just be easier for everybody involved (except for maybe you



) to have you place the bulk order, and accept all the money in one place. This should make for just one currency conversion. That's my vote, anyway.

I'm always amazed at all the generosity shown on these boards. Starting with Rene in this thread, it has spread rapidly to many others. Well done.


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JollyRoger:
*While the proposal to have Craig do it is a great one, I'm not sure if $5 should be added. [...] But if Craig would like to do this, I think this is a great idea, just as long as it's okay with everyone. But be prepared to go to the post office to mail packages upon packages, Craig!!!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a tempting offer, but there simply aren't enough hours in the day anymore, not with the way the website has grown. Spending 45 minutes to an hour a day at the post office (the average wait time to mail a parcel from the downtown terminal) plus travel time and even repeat trips with another 45-60 minutes in line (a wheelchair only holds x number of small boxes) would begin to detract from my current work on the website, and _nobody_ wants to see that happen. I've honestly got my plate so full now there's no room left for dessert. :9
However, I *do[/b sincerely appreciate the gesture.



*


----------



## remuen (Apr 19, 2002)

Ok, as requested by some of you here a new 'price list' showing not only the prices in $ but also in Swiss Francs (SFr) and Euro. IMO the SFR and Euro prices are only of interest for the Europeans and maybe the Asians when they don't want to make use of JollyRoger's offer for using his PayPal account.

1 Free Light US$ 19.- | SFr 030.- | Euro 021.-
2 Free Lights US$ 37.- | SFr 058.- | Euro 041.-
3 Free Lights US$ 54.- | SFr 084.- | Euro 059.-
4 Free Lights US$ 74.- | SFr 115.- | Euro 082.-
5 Free Lights US$ 91.- | SFr 141.- | Euro 100.-

Insurance (per shipment): $ 6.- | SFr 9.- | Euro 6.50

These prices do not include any fees possibly charged by JollyRogers for paypal.

For the calculation I took the actual exchange rate from today for changing the currencies back into Swiss Francs. 

Btw, rounding the prices does in almost all cases lower my profit






so I do need a lot of orders to get rich with this deal



. 

As the shipment costs depend on the weight the prices do not continous drop. Eg for four lights I have to take another packing than for three lights which does increase the price.


----------



## remuen (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The LED Museum:
*It probably isn't going to be me. I had an emergency come up and my existing funds are now all but gone until after the 3rd of May. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Craig

If you don't get that free sample from Avexa I mentioned in my email please keep me informed. I'm willing to reduce my huge profit a bit and will then send you a really free Free Light. I think it is a must that you have also the possibility to make a review of this light.

As in the future the Free Light will help you to save money because you don't have to pay for the sun light



as you have to do for all the batteries in the other flash lights you shouldn't make your toilet test with it


----------



## STC (Apr 19, 2002)

Hmmm....just would not be the same without Craig's review. I would like to donate a few bucks to make sure Craig gets a Freelight. Anyone care to join me? I will send extra $ in Paypal if O.K.


----------



## remuen (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by STC:
*Hmmm....just would not be the same without Craig's review. I would like to donate a few bucks to make sure Craig gets a Freelight. Anyone care to join me? I will send extra $ in Paypal if O.K.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have just emailed to Craig that he will get a free Free Light from Avexa. Emil Ackermann wrote this to me a few minutes ago.


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*I have just emailed to Craig that he will get a free Free Light from Avexa. Emil Ackermann wrote me this a few minutes ago.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's great! Because I was going to loan one to him as well!


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 19, 2002)

Paul, I will accept check and money order as well.
Don't worry.




I'll just have to deposit it and wait until I can pass the order along to Rene. If you send a check or money order now, it shouldn't delay the process much...Money order won't even delay at all, since it's like cash.
Email me at [email protected] and I'll tell you my address.


----------



## mikep (Apr 19, 2002)

Please count me in for one. Please let me know when to paypal the money.

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 1
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 19, 2002)

Rene, from looking at the Freelight, do you think it would be possible to put the electronics of a Photon III inside it? All the features of a photon III in this light would be so cool! I'm going to try (well, we'll see if it's possible) when I get this light.


----------



## Evan (Apr 19, 2002)

Hey the price for 3 is a good deal, so I'll go for 3:

darell 2
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1

--------------------


----------



## Darell (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*Hey the price for 3 is a good deal, so I'll go for 3*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, three is the hot ticket. Count me in, too. Nice to have my name on top... easy to find.
--------------------------------

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1


----------



## Darell (Apr 19, 2002)

My eyes get tired reading these (now 9!) pages, and I can't remember if the fees question was ever answered. The question was if the fees should be divided equally per light ordered, or simply per order. Seems like Rene has it figured out at his end, and the PayPal fee is simple enough to figure out at $0.30 + 2.9% (if I remember right) plus whatever percentage the bank fees will be for Roger. I'll bet we're all good enough to figure out the math... So that should pretty much cover us, yes?

I'm standing by the PayPal button.


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*I have just emailed to Craig that he will get a free Free Light from Avexa. Emil Ackermann wrote this to me a few minutes ago.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for going to bat for me.





I haven't even had a chance to go through my email today - been a bit busy between running errands, shopping, and something about a rocket. :x
I'll be sure you get a personal response when I get to my inbox.


----------



## flashfan (Apr 19, 2002)

I'm in.

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
springnr 1 
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5


----------



## springnr (Apr 19, 2002)

No paypal & don't want to hold up the deal - took my name off list. 

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5


----------



## remuen (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JollyRoger:
*Rene, from looking at the Freelight, do you think it would be possible to put the electronics of a Photon III inside it? All the features of a photon III in this light would be so cool! I'm going to try (well, we'll see if it's possible) when I get this light.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Roger

I can't imagine one could do that because the housing is completly sealed/glued (remember, it is watertight IP68). I'm sure you would damage the Free Light trying to open it.

I'm quite sure after all of you have got your Free Lights we will have some more discussions about it and what features could be added to it. And I do know that Emil Ackermann from Avexa is already following this thread. So I think he will at least read all this suggestions made by us. Would be nice to have a Free Light I, a Free Light II and a Free Light III





I don't know wether he will join us here in the CPF but I suggested he should do it. But as I posted earlier he seems to be very very busy and is working more time per day than it's good to anyone. He needs already 1 to 3 days to answer an email. And you all know being an active member here needs some time.


----------



## remuen (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*
Hey the price for 3 is a good deal, so I'll go for 3
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
Yup, three is the hot ticket. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Five is almost the same good deal



. Graham is still in front. Seems he knows almost all Japaneses .....


----------



## Brock (Apr 20, 2002)

OK, so are we set? Can I paypal Roger the $? Did I mention I like to get new lights


----------



## prn (Apr 20, 2002)

So it looks like payment by PayPal only? If so, then I will have to back out. I could pay by check or money order, but if Roger only wants PayPal then I'm out.





Paul


----------



## Lonewolf (Apr 20, 2002)

I am ready to make payment just let me know if you are set up for it.


----------



## Darell (Apr 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*Graham is still in front.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I found out long ago that competing with Graham is a losing proposition. Once again, I bow to his superior quantities.


----------



## rodmeister (Apr 20, 2002)

Thought of a couple uses for Freelights when I get some. 1) One will be on my car rearview mirror, always charging for an emergency. 2) Two will accompany my hiking trips, charging on my belt, backpack, or hanging on my neck like a dogtag.


----------



## Evan (Apr 20, 2002)

I sent an email to JollyRoger Friday to find out where to send payment. No response yet. You'd think it was a glorious Spring weekend or something.

Rodmeister: I don't see you in the list.


----------



## Darell (Apr 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*I sent an email to JollyRoger Friday to find out where to send payment. No response yet.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he got confused. He was supposed to collect all the money fist, and THEN disappear!


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*I sent an email to JollyRoger Friday to find out where to send payment. No response yet. You'd think it was a glorious Spring weekend or something.

Rodmeister: I don't see you in the list.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It was a glorious Spring day indeed!
hehe...sorry. Yes, I was out riding my bike. Almost hit 50mph going down this one hill...what fun!

Evan, I just sent you an email.

BTW, I might not be that responsive to email on the weekends, b/c I'm not at a computer all the time. If I remember, I'll try to check it with my phone....but usually I'm good at checking email during the weekdays (at work). I'll try to check my email atleast two or three times a day today and tomorrow, yes?


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 20, 2002)

To those of you who want to pay now. Since the "order list" does not close until Monday evening, if you REALLY want to send me a payment, you can do so...BUT, I will give you an estimated $ figure that will probably be slightly more than what the actual amount will come out to (b/c I am assuming one or more orders b/w now and Monday evening...)

Currently, I count 36 lights being ordered, not including any orders with question (?) marks next to them.

This means the added costs (per light) I will charge (on top of the amount Rene listed for the lights) will be based on the 36 lights ordered, plus the paypal fee:

$15 (wire fee) / 36 = $0.4167 per light plus the paypal fee, which will be 2.9% of your order amount (including the $.04167) plus $0.30.

Example, if you your order is for 1 light, you will need to pay me:

(($19 + (($15/36) x 1)) x 2.9%) + $0.30

This totals to $20.28.

If you're really nice, you can round up to the nearest dollar...or half dollar. This will be my huge profit margin. 





Here are the fees for 2 and 3, 4, and 5 lights.

2 lights: (based on initial $37)---> $39.23

3 lights: (based on initial $54)---> $57.15

4 lights: (based on initial $74)---> $78.16

5 lights: (based on initial $91)---> $96.08

Please do correct my math if it's wrong.





My paypal email address is [email protected] (the same). You can send me a payment via this email address.

I guess nobody signed up a new account with my referral?? If someone did, we could have saved some $$$....but whatever...this is a pretty good deal anyways.


----------



## remuen (Apr 20, 2002)

hmmm, seems that someone has just deleted his post .....

Heja, I have never thought this thread would grow as much as it has now - already ten pages. And ikendu has already opened a second thread <A HREF="http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002105" TARGET=_blank>
Uses for the solar rechargeable Free Light</A> 

JollyRoger:
As I posted earlier, my prices do include 3% for bank charges. This is about $0.50 ($19 is 103%) and you could make use of this to lower your 'paypal-price' if you need it.


----------



## Brock (Apr 21, 2002)

Ok, I sent some money to JollyRoger, someone had to start the ball rolling





So Remuen do you want us to give you addresses to send them to or is JollyRoger going to give you a master list from us?


----------



## Graham (Apr 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*I found out long ago that competing with Graham is a losing proposition. Once again, I bow to his superior quantities.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What can I say? Decent 'disposable' income, no dependants, no loans, no debt.





Anyway, I have enough friends who are 'married with children' to know that I need to stock up on all my toys and gadgets before the event, because I know things are going to change..

Graham


----------



## Kill-O-Zap (Apr 21, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5 
LoveLight 1


----------



## pjenkins00 (Apr 21, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5 
LoveLight 1 
pjenkins00 2


----------



## Spidey82 (Apr 21, 2002)

I sent an e-mail to [email protected]
but no reply, does he speak English???
Linfeng


----------



## Graham (Apr 21, 2002)

I received a reply from him, yes he does speak English. It was a couple of days before I got it though.

However, they are relying on Rene for our orders - I don't think they want to deal with end-users..

Graham


----------



## InTheDark (Apr 21, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5 
LoveLight 1 
pjenkins00 2 
inthedark 1


----------



## remuen (Apr 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
I sent an e-mail to [email protected] but no reply, does he speak English???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

As I posted a few days ago Emil Ackermann emailed me, that he needs two to three working days to answer emails from endusers as Avexa usually does not deliver directly to end-users. So you have to wait a bit longer ...


----------



## remuen (Apr 21, 2002)

*Another 21 hours until the group buy will be closed .......*


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
*
So Remuen do you want us to give you addresses to send them to or is JollyRoger going to give you a master list from us?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it would be easier for JollyRoger if you send a email order with all necessary informations to me. It should contain:

- Subject: Order
- Quantity
- whole amount in $
- Insurance no (or yes)
- Your complete adress as I have to write it
- your email adress you used for the paypal payment
- your CPF user name (optional)

So I will put all this together in a list and can send it to JollyRoger who can confirm that your payment is done


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

So I'm on the second position behind Graham: I have now sold five Free Lights to friends. Hope I can beat the Australian living in Japan an buying Swiss made lights with a Japanese charge pump IC in it






. 

I have to hurry to visit some more friends .....



- a pity that it's already 9:25 pm here in Central Europe. Seems that Graham will defend his first position.


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

*Only 18 hours until this group buy will be closed ... *


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

*Only 15 hours until this group buy will be closed ... *


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

*What happens with your order and when do you get the ordered Free Lights?*

One of my targets is that everyone gets his Free Light(s) as soon as possible. So I asked Avexa to send me a certain quantitiy of these lights with the possibility to send some back in case that maybe a few of the orderer don't make their payment.

To confirm the needed quantity I do need your email confirmation of the CPF order as I mentioned in an earlier post.

OK, this is the actual ordering list here from the CPF:

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?) 
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5 
LoveLight 1 
pjenkins00 2 
inthedark 1 

Please help me to send you the Free Lights as soon as possible just by confirming your order by email to me ( [email protected] ). I need the following informations:

- Subject: Order for Free Light(s)
- Quantity
- whole amount in $
- Insurance no (or yes)
- Your complete adress as I have to write it on the adress for the dispatch
- your email adress you used for the paypal payment ***
- your CPF user name (optional, but would be nice to know it too)

*** = for those of you have ordered directly with me and are transfering the money direct on my bank account or sent me the money in a letter: 
Please inform me when the money has been sent to me.

*All this does not concern the ones who have already sent me an email with all these informations.*

These informations will help to confirm your payment via PayPal to JollyRoger and also to prepare everthing at home (writing adresses and so on) to send you the Free Lights as soon as I receive them.







*If you help me, I help you to receive your Free Light(s) faster!*








---------------------------------

If you are looking for the informations and prices when paying via PayPal to JollyRoger you will find this in the last post of page 9 of this thread!

---------------------------------

Btw: *Only 12 hours until this group buy will be closed ... *


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 22, 2002)

Thanks to those of you who have already paid me....I guess you guys are true "Flashaholics," can't even wait for the order list to close! (not that those of you who haven't paid yet aren't lesser flashaholics..."

It's nice to get emails from people on the CPF and learn their real names!

I am expecting a huge flood of Paypals tonight and tomorrow (???). Hopefully, I can send a full list of "paid" people to Rene by tomorrow. To those of you who paid by check, I will have to wait until the check arrives, but since Rene has begun the process of preparing the packages, etc...your order may only be delayed by the amount of time it takes me to get the check...

-Roger

BTW: only 10 hours to closing....


----------



## Ken M (Apr 22, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 22, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2
Jason 3


----------



## Darell (Apr 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*Two of our CPF friends have ordered 10 Free Lights







*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh. Can't imagine who one of those guys must be...



Your time is comin' G-man! Yours is comin'.

OK, I'm off to send my particulars to Switzerland.


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Heh. Can't imagine who one of those guys must be...
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One was and the other one is still on the order list. But it seems he wants to keep it secret. Guess who it is ..


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 22, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2
Jason 3
eccentrich 1


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Apr 22, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2
Jason 3
eccentrich 1 
mr ted bear 1


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

*Costs for insured shipments*

Making my list I just noticed that I got orders demanding an insurance. I'm not sure whether you have paid for this insurance (the price mentioned in the email is the one for the Free Lights without insurance). So if you want the shipment to be insured you have to add $6 to your payment.

During the next awfull hours where you have to take the decision whether to order or not and if you should increase your order to beat our two leaders I have to leave you alone because here in Central Europe it's 12:00pm. I do hope JollyRoger is going to play my part.

Btw: *Only 6 hours until this group buy will be closed ... *


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*Costs for insured shipments

Making my list I just noticed that I got orders demanding an insurance. I'm not sure whether you have paid for this insurance (the price mentioned in the email is the one for the Free Lights without insurance). So if you want the shipment to be insured you have to add $6 to your payment.

During the next awfull hours when you have to take the decision whether to order or not and if you should increase your order to beat our two leaders I have you to leave alone because here in Central Europe it's 12:00pm. I do hope JollyRoger is going to play my part.

Btw: Only 6 hours until this group buy will be closed ... *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I hope those of you who want insurance have added another $6...it seems (from memory) that nobody has given me extra $$ for the insurance? Have to check....

Rene, I'll try to play your part....don't know how I'll do, but I'll sure be Jolly!

huhuhuhuh!












okay, that was kind of freaky....


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 22, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 2
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2
Jason 3
eccentrich 1 
mr ted bear 1 
Duggg 1


----------



## Lonewolf (Apr 22, 2002)

I just noticed I ended up on the list twice I only need one light. Also Jolly do you have the exact figures worked out yet?

darell 3
lonewolf 1 (I think this is a duplicate)
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 1
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2
Jason 3
eccentrich 1 
mr ted bear 1 
Duggg 1


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonewolf:
*I just noticed I ended up on the list twice I only need one light. Also Jolly do you have the exact figures worked out yet?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't have the exact figures yet, as the order list is not officially closed until 9pm PST...I'll try to get the exact figures posted after that...hopefully tonight...

My this list has grown!


----------



## fracman (Apr 22, 2002)

I am not completely sure how to do it, but count me in for two and I'll paypal as soon as you give me a dollar amount!
Thanks


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 22, 2002)

OK, fracman...added you to the list:

darell 3
lonewolf 1 (I think this is a duplicate)
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 1
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2
Jason 3
eccentrich 1 
mr ted bear 1 
Duggg 1
fracman 2

Everyone please watch this thread later for instructions/payment details, etc.
I'm going home now (leaving work), going on a short bike ride, eat, do some work at home, then check the forums....there, now everyone knows my schedule for the evening!


----------



## Spidey82 (Apr 22, 2002)

*darell 3
lonewolf 1 (I think this is a duplicate)
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 1
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 1
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2
Jason 3
eccentrich 1 
mr ted bear 1 
Duggg 1
fracman 2
*

Think i will pass on this....
Linfeng


----------



## dat2zip (Apr 22, 2002)

darell 3
lonewolf 1 (I think this is a duplicate)
Spidey82 1
Bushman 1
*something ridiculous ? 1
JollyRoger 3
machspass 1
ChrisA 1
BeamRider 1
Evan 3
Lonewolf 1
MY 1
Brock 1
STC 2
prn 1 (?)
AndyJ 1
Andrew 1
tej 2
Terrapin Flyer 1
phred 1
dat2zip 3
mekki 1
mikep 1
flashfan 5
LoveLight 1
pjenkins00 2
inthedark 1
Ken M 2
Jason 3
eccentrich 1 
mr ted bear 1 
Duggg 1
fracman 2


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

Hello good morning 

Can someone tell me why my outlook input box is overflowing?








OK, I worked last night a bit longer on this issue than planned and this morning I already tried to answer the most important emails/questions. Hope everthing is clear. 


Btw, *This group by is now closed!*


Today means more tonight I try to figure out how many Free Lights we now really need and then i'm going to place the order. Seems there are much more then I initially thought.

To all who didn't make their their payment up to now: 
Please arrange everthing that I will get the money as soon as possible because I'm going to ship the Free Lights only when I do have your $, Euros and SFr's (I'm sure you understand this). This is especially important if you'ra paying to JollyRoger because I suppose the transfer of the money to me also takes some time.


----------



## remuen (Apr 22, 2002)

Hello again

If you are a latecomer and still want to order please contact me by email so we can arrange something. As a first step I need a firm confirmation of your order by email with all necessary informations as posted on page 10 of this thread.


----------



## remuen (Apr 23, 2002)

I'm no longer number two in the Free Light ranking list. Two of our CPF friends have ordered 10 Free Lights








I already got a few emails with the necessary informations to prepare the order and the shipments. Thanks to all.






And thanks to all who will send me their email within the next couple of hours








Btw: *Only 9 hours until this group buy will be closed ... *


----------



## remuen (Apr 23, 2002)

We have now reached a quantity of about 70 Free Lights ordered by CPF members. That's really great! Obviously there are some more orders than listed here in the ordering list. As I'm not sure whether these members like it if they would be published I don't put them on the list. 

A few of the orders are still not firm confirmed by email so the total amount could change. The members who didn't comfirm it up to now have got an email from me asking for this confirmation. I do need this information to order the really needed quantity of Free Lights even I haven't got the confirmation for the payments (as JollyRoger wrote this could last a few days longer). And we don't want to let you wait ...

*To MY and tej*
As far as I have seen I didn't receive your email confirmation or I must have missed it because I got a lot of emails with orders and questions and other things more in the last few hours. I do not have your email adress and therefore I couldn't send you an email. So I'm asking you here to confirm your order with the necessary details as mentioned in my post on page 10 of this thread. Thank you very much in advance.

JollyRoger and I will keep you informed!

_Btw, I made a deal with my elder son. He will pack the lights and write the adresses by hand. Should be of advantage if the parcels do not look as if they have been sent by a company ......



_


----------



## remuen (Apr 23, 2002)

*



Wrong insurance costs



*

This morning I had to go to the local post office to check the shipment costs for someone. Studying the whole thing with these costs again and again I found out that I have made a mistake



. The insurance costs only $4 per priority flat rate envelope instead of $6. So if you have already payed $6 IMO it will be the best JollyRoger will transfer this money to me and I put it together with the lights in the envelope.

Sorry for this mistake



!


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 23, 2002)

Hmmm...Rene...the money I am transferring to you will be in CHF....you will then need to convert it back to USD before you put it in the shipment! I think this isn't worth it.

If people like, I could transfer the $2 back via Paypal...of course, if you have a premium account like me, they will charge you 2.9% plus $0.30 of the $2!!! Yes, I guess they need to make money, too...

What do you guys think? I don't think that many people had insurance...dunno...didn't check my email yet!

I'll do that now...

Another thing. I think I have received payments from many of you. I will finish sending out "payment received" emails. If by tonight you have NOT received a "I added you to the paid list" email, then please email me again.

Hopefully, we can firm up the paid list so I can send it to Rene.

Doh! I have to put up the revised price list, of course....this will follow shortly.


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 23, 2002)

OK, for those of you who patiently waited, here is the new pricing scheme, based on the latest list (52 orders, I believe). I am NOT including the order by Graham (large), as this is not going through me and it would not be appropriate to charge him my Paypal or wire fees! I am also not including an extra 7 lights that I am buying. I have to be truthful to you guys. Basically, I am buying these just in case other CPF members want one in the future (who might have missed this group buy). Since I don't know if I'll be taking the full cost of these lights, etc. or if they will sell, I just decided to make the cost of these 7 cheaper for myself (I'm only saving a couple of cents!). I will be selling these as follows: Max one per person, first come first serve...and will charge minimal postage fees, etc....I will probably charge $22 plus postage or something like that...

Here are the original base prices:

1 Free Light US$ 19.- | SFr 030.- | Euro 021.-
2 Free Lights US$ 37.- | SFr 058.- | Euro 041.-
3 Free Lights US$ 54.- | SFr 084.- | Euro 059.-
4 Free Lights US$ 74.- | SFr 115.- | Euro 082.-
5 Free Lights US$ 91.- | SFr 141.- | Euro 100.-

Here are the updated prices, including Paypal and wire fees.

1 Free Light: $20.15

2 Free Lights: $38.97

3 Free Lights: $56.76

4 Free Lights: $77.34

5 Free Lights: $95.42

Please let me know if these calculations are incorrect....also, it would be nice if you could round up to the nearest...whatever...dollar, ten cents, etc.

NOTE: if you need insurance, add $4 to the above price.


----------



## remuen (Apr 24, 2002)

As the group buy is closed I renamed this thread to its original name. You will still find some general informations about our group buy here in this thread.

Up to now most orders have been confirmed by email so I think we can proceed. Thank you all for your help



I am going to order the needed quantity Free Lights even I didn't receive any money so we will not loose time (and hopefully also no money).

*For latecomers: *
You are new here and you want to order one or more Free Lights too? Then please immidiatly contact JollyRoger or me by email.


----------



## remuen (Apr 24, 2002)

*To those who didn't confirm their order by email*
If you are one of those few CPF fellows who did not confirm their Free Light order by email to me please do it now.

Sorry for urging you but this will help me to prepare everything so I can send you your Free Lights as fast as possible. 

I do need the following informations:

- Subject: Order for Free Light(s)
- Quantity
- whole amount in $
- Insurance no (or yes)
- Your complete adress as I have to write it on the adress label
- your email adress you used for the paypal payment 
- your CPF user name (optional, but would be nice to know it too)

Thank you all for your help!


----------



## remuen (Apr 25, 2002)

Wow, I have now 75 Free Lights to order whereof 71 pieces are confirmed by email. According to JollyRoger almost all of them are already paid. Great!








We now go ahead as follows: 
Right now I'm going to order the Free Lights and suppose I will receive them beginning of next week. My son and I will prepare all the shipments to you. As soon as the money is in my bank account and I have received the Free Lights we will ship them to you!

Sorry that we couldn't proceed as fast as planned. To give you an idea what is going on behind the scene: Yesterday evening I received 18 emails having this Free Light as topic. I think JollyRoger is in a similar situation.

*A plea to all it concerns:*
If you have a question about the Free Light or the group buy which is of interest for others too and if it is not really private please post it here and do not write me an email. If you are not a CPF member: It is easy and free to register. So it would be nice if you would register and place your questions and information here in the thread. Welcome as a member and thank you for your understanding








_Btw, I'm not a sales representative of this company and therefore I'm not able to anser all questions. Please post your question here and Emil Ackermann from Avexa will hopefully see them and give us an answer!_

This weekend I will go to Italy with my family. So from Friday 04-2602 12:00 CET until Sunday 04-28-02 xx:xx CET you can contact me neither by email nor here in the CPF. But don't be afraid: I don't run away with your money. This trip was budgeted and planned long before we talked about a group buy








*To latecomers:*
Plese contact JollyRoger or me be by email.


----------



## remuen (Apr 26, 2002)

This is my last group buy status report of this week:

The Free Lights are in order and Avexa announced they will dispatch them today to me. Therefore I should get them on tuesday or on wednesday next week. 

As JollyRoger informed me most of the payments to him are done or the money/check is on the way



. I think he will transfer the money as soon as possible to my bank as he should have all necessary information. Usually such a transfer takes a few days too.

As promised I will shortly test each single Free Light to be sure they are all OK. As soon as I have received the lights and the money I will send the Free Lights to you. I do hope that everything will be tested and packed and adressed when I receive the money so we will not loose more time than necessary.

In about two hours I am on the way to Italy. I will be off until sunday evening CET (CET = Pacif Time + 9 hours so I think most of you are right now sleeping



)


----------



## Klaus (Apr 26, 2002)

Viel Spass

Klaus


----------



## remuen (Apr 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*Viel Spass

Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Danke. Ab nun an bin ich offline ....


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 26, 2002)

Ich wunsche dir auch viel Spass!


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 26, 2002)

Just to post an update to everyone...It seems that I have received most of the payments. I'm just waiting for a couple of checks/money orders via snail mail. Once I get these, I will wire the money to Rene. After that, we should be expecting our cool little Free Lights very soon!


----------



## remuen (Apr 29, 2002)

I'm back from Italy




where we had a great time



.

We agreed that JollyRoger will wire the money to me without waiting for the outstanding payments. For these few ones we found another way to transfer the money later on to me. So most of you will receive their Free Lights very soon while the others have possibly to wait a few days more.

_Btw, as far as I am informed you should receive the parcels within 4 to 7 days after dispatch. Because of the higher purchase order quantity we agreed in two cases to split the delivery into two or three parcels. In these cases I will send one parcel one day later._


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 29, 2002)

Here is an update on my end for everyone.

As Remuen has indicated, I have a couple of payments I still need to receive. These are some payments by check (in the mail, I presume).

As for the wire, unfortunately, my bank is now charging me $25!!! I have no idea what happened to the $15...but I am going to use c2it instead (one of the originally proposed ideas). The max fee on this is $15, so we're still ok. Once I receive Remuen's phone number (needed to complete the form), I will initiate the direct deposit.

All this info is just to keep everyone informed....as the exact status of where things are.

Hopefully, if all goes well, people should be getting their Free Lights by the end of next week???


----------



## Evan (Apr 29, 2002)

reuman: While we're all waiting for the postman, perhaps you can summarize what you know of these light's innards. I believe you said they have a Panasonic 'century' lithium cell good for 1000 cycles? What capacity? I think you also said the light is regulated and protected from overcharge? That it takes about a day's charge for an hour's use? I'd like to know all the technical details, but perhaps not badly enough to break one open.


----------



## remuen (Apr 29, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*reuman: While we're all waiting for the postman, perhaps you can summarize what you know of these light's innards. ....
I'd like to know all the technical details, but perhaps not badly enough to break one open.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK Evan, here the specs I have got from Avexa and which I have already posted on page one of this thread. I added only a few details:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Nichia R Rank LED (4800 - 5600 - 6800 mcd at If=20mA) driven with max. 30mA
<LI>55mAh Panasonic Vanadium Lithium cell which can be recharged up to 10'000 times
<LI>Panasonic solarcells
<LI>voltage controlled charging with overcharge protection
<LI>Free Light uses a DC/DC converter (charge pump from NS)
<LI>up to two hours runtime with a full charged lithium cell
<LI>one day sunlight for a full recharge
[/list]

To recharge the cell you can also use artificial light. See more about this here: Uses for the solar rechargeable Free Light.


----------



## remuen (Apr 30, 2002)

*An interesting question to all of you *








Today the postman didn't ring twice but he brought me a parcel. Could it be that I've got something what all of you are waiting for?


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 30, 2002)

Well what was the package! Tell us!!!!


----------



## Brock (Apr 30, 2002)

is it, is it.....


----------



## remuen (Apr 30, 2002)

* The answer*








OK, it is very simple: As the postman couldn't ring twice the parcel must be unusual big and heavy and therefore it must be the one with 77 Free Lights in it. And it is!

The Free Lights are already unpacked and ready to get a bit of light. Tomorrow evening CET I will test them. The adresses are written and as soon as I have the money on my bank account I will send you your Free Lights.

Oh yes, and JollyRoger emailed me the information that the transaction is done. Usually it takes 2 -3 days until the money is on my bank account because the wires between two banks are always extremly long






. But I think I will be able to dispatch the lights on thursday or friday.


----------



## lightlover (May 1, 2002)

René,

*I haven't received my light yet - what's going on ??*





(Sorry, René, I just couldn't resist the temptation ... )

lightlover


----------



## remuen (May 1, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous ?:
*I haven't received my light yet - what's going on ??




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, look what you have in your email inbox


----------



## remuen (May 2, 2002)

I have tested all 77 Free Lights and they are all ok. 

My son has written all the adresses and right now we are going to pack the lights so everything is ready for tomorrow when I hopefully will receive the money.


----------



## remuen (May 2, 2002)

Yesterday evening I had the very rare occasion to compare 77 Free Lights as I shortly checked all the lights before my son has packed them. IMO such a chance will come only once in my live. Can you imagine: Seventyseven Free Lights on the table? As you probably understand I didn't really test them because my son wanted to pack them. So here only a few remarks of what I have noticed. 

As I'm a bit lazy I refer here to the post of Craig Johnson (The LED Museum) in this thread Uses for the solar rechargeable Free Light  . Here he posted his first impressions and some more pics of the Free Light and also a first beam shot (compared to the ARC AAA



). 

I do hope Craig will forgive me that I do refer to his post. *Otherwise I will prostrate before him and beg for mercy ......*








OK, here it starts:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The LED Museum in another thread:
*
Brightness is comparable to, though just slightly brighter than my white Infinity, and the LED has a bluish, cross-shaped splotch in the center with the remainder of the beam a warmer or slightly greenish hue of white. Not pee green like those bad Luxeons, just a very slight tint.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of the 77 Free Lights I have checked have a more a slightly blueish beam color comparable to the older ARC AAA. The other ones do have the warmer and slightly greenish color as Craig mentioned which is close to the beam color of my two ARC LE. Personally I prefer the greenish tint but unfortunatly the Free Light I own has the more blueish tint.

There are also some differences in the beam shape. Some of the Free Lights have a more smooth spot in the center and some others have more a cross-shaped spot as Craig has noticed.

Last year I had the chance to compare 10 ARC AAA as I ordered them for friends. I then realized similar differences in the beam shape and color.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The LED Museum in another thread:
*
... a version 1.xx Arc-AAA is also brighter, but only by a small margin. Those of you with standard issue Arc-AAAs bought around the 1st of the year or earlier should have an idea of about how bright the Free Light is. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hope Craig will soon will post his measurement results. As I posted earlier using a scale to rate the brightness this is my estimated result:
- ARC LE 100 points 
- ARC AAA 92 points
- Free Light 88 points
But this is only a estimation as I have no possibility to measure the brightness.

There are some differences between the brightness of these 77 Free Lights. Even I didn't compare them again with my ARC AAA I would say a few of them are as bright as the ARC or possibly even brighter. But most of them seem to be in the range of these 88 points.

As we all know the specs of the Nichia R rank LEDs do vary within a certain range. According to my information the LED current in the Free Lights is limited to max. 30mA. So this difference in the brightness has to be expected.

*Btw, don't worry that I have taken all the best ones for me!!! As now all 77 lights are sold I couldn't keep them for me. And nobody will get my alredy used Free Light. I carry it with me now for almost four weeks and so you would certainly see if you would receive this one. All the good and also the best ones will be spread among you in a few days! I haven't made a selction because I had no time to do it!*


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The LED Museum:
*
Think of it kind of as a flattened Arc that you never have to change the battery in. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This seems to me was Craig's conclusion. If I'm right this is a compliment for the Free Light as the ARC AAA is our measuring stick for all this kind of flashlights .....


----------



## Klaus (May 2, 2002)

While I also wait for my FreeLight (it wasn´t free after all



) what made me wonder in Craigs post was that the Free-light was described being a bit brighter than Ininity and a bit dimmer then an "older" ARC AAA using I guess an R rank LED like the freelight as well and not the more recent S ranks. (As the ARC AAA use 40ma and the freelight supposedly 30ma this is no real surprise IMO)

Now as far as I recall (having never had an Ininity myself) I read posts and tests describing the ARC AAA as MUCH brighter than the Ininity - something like 3X bright ? So this just a bit brighter / just a bit dimmer doesn´t make sense to me - if the ARC AAA and Infinity seem so much different in brightness then how can the freelight be so "close in between" ?

Craig - can you be so kind and clarify ?

And hopefully the freelights will be in my hands RSN - at least this time the close proximity of where René and I live pays





Klaus


----------



## remuen (May 2, 2002)

I just looked into my bank account but didn't yet receive the payment from JollyRoger. To make it clear: It is in no way Roger's failure because he emailed me the confirmation of his bank which confirms his transfer order. So the reason must be the long wire between overseas and overseas (America is also overseas for us here in overseas



). You know, electonic signals are transmitted only with the speed of light which is not really fast








OK, we can't do anything else than wait. On my side everything is ready to be shipped and I have all the envelopes in my car so as soon as the transaction is OK I will bring them to the local post office.

There are only a few 'late comers' or 'late payers'. They will get their Free Light(s) also very soon because JollyRoger and I agreed on a fast payment method useable only for these small amounts. Their Free Lights are also packed and ready to be shipped.


----------



## Klaus (May 3, 2002)

Any news on the Free-Light ?

Klaus


----------



## remuen (May 3, 2002)

Unfortunatly there are still no news to tell because I haven't yet got the money



. It is still somewhere 'in the wire' between overseas and overseas.

There is an explanation for the delay: Rogers bank called him one day after he gave the payment order to ensure that his payment was no mistake. OK, it is not really bad if a bank does ask back in such an unusual case (I think Roger does not transfer every day as much money to a Swiss bank as he did this week). But in our case this is most probably the reason for the delay. 

I have already phoned with my bank but the guy there couldn't help me. I then checked whether I could bring your Free Lights to the postal office also on saturday. Yes, I could. This means that in case the payment would be booked to my account today after the postal offices are closed your envelopes will be shipped also on saturday as they belong to the letter post. I have ensured this with another phone call.

And the good news for unfortunatly only a few of you: 
Some of you as eg. our Australien friend living in Japan and buying Swiss lights or our CPF friend from the parallel universe or my 'neighbour' Klaus and a few others will receive their Free Lights a bit earlier because I already have received their payments and brought these envelopes already to the local post office. Sorry to those who do not belong the happy ones. 

I'll keep on it and let you know any news.


----------



## remuen (May 3, 2002)

It's now 5:50pm CET and the local postal office will be closed in 10 minutes ..... and no new figures in my account





An hour ago I had another phone call with my bank and the guy looked into *his* computer which should have quite a bit more information than mine but he also did n't find anything more.

I just got an information from a friend who has some more experience in wiring money from the USA to Europe. According this your banks seems to work a bit longer with the money they should transfer. You know, it's free money for the bank from the very moment of debiting the sender until crediting to the recipients account with which they can make some profit.

I'll keep you informed!


----------



## machspass (May 3, 2002)

That's fine, I think we all know these things can take time. I am looking forward to receiving the Freelight, but patience is indeed a virtue!






I don't think the world will come to an end before we get them.








Rene,

Though it may have already been said, I want to thank you for doing all this work for us, so that we all can have these cool new lights. I know it was much work and troubles for you to do this and you didn't have to do it. It was a really nice thing for you to do. In other words, Ich bedanke mich bei dir für die Möglichkeit, ein Freilicht zu bekommen. Es ist nett von dir, diese Lichte uns zu schicken.





If I were still living in Frankfurt, I would drive four hours to pick it from you personally, maybe even meet you for dinner somewhere.



Then I could visit that area again too. My wife and I loved Switzerland, Liechtenstein and the Bodensee very much.


----------



## The_LED_Museum (May 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
* if the ARC AAA and Infinity seem so much different in brightness then how can the freelight be so "close in between" ?

Craig - can you be so kind and clarify ?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's closer to the Arc than it is to the Infinity. The Free Light may have been in a state of partial discharge when I first tried it, so I've kept it under a bulb for the last couppe of days. Now it's fair game with an Arc-L, though with a cooler color. I can't meter them until after dark, so we'll have to wait about 10 or so more hours for that.





According to the paper that came with it, the LED is ">4cd-strengh white light and 30° angle of radiance". This sounds like a rank "Q" or rank "R" part.


----------



## Darell (May 3, 2002)

I just know somebody out there is going to figure out a way to shove a 5mm S-rank in there! I'm getting three, so one may just become a test-bed...


----------



## remuen (May 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by machspass:
*
... I want to thank you for doing all this work for us .... In other words, Ich bedanke mich bei dir für die Möglichkeit, ein Freilicht zu bekommen. Es ist nett von dir, diese Lichte uns zu schicken.






If I were still living in Frankfurt, I would drive four hours to pick it from you personally, maybe even meet you for dinner somewhere.



Then I could visit that area again too. My wife and I loved Switzerland, Liechtenstein and the Bodensee very much.




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

machspass, thank your for your thank you





Why don't you spend a holiday here? I then could be your guide and show you a few places you wouldn't find on your own (not the ones where a lot of other people are)


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
I just know somebody out there is going to figure out a way to shove a 5mm S-rank in there! I'm getting three, so one may just become a test-bed...
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you will destroy it anyway I will keep this one here for me ....


----------



## remuen (May 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The LED Museum:
*
Now it's fair game with an Arc-L, though with a cooler color. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 

Thanks Craig that you are confirming my unqualified notice. Even I did not compare the 77 Free Lights with one of my ARCs i noticed that a few of them must be at least as bright as my ARC AAA. And you with your experienced eyes are going to rate yours even brighter.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The LED Museum:
*
According to the paper that came with it, the LED is ">4cd-strengh white light and 30° angle of radiance". This sounds like a rank "Q" or rank "R" part.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was a bit confused reading this paper but Emil Ackermann from Avexa confirmed me these specs for the LED:

*Nichia R Rank LED (4800 - 5600 - 6800 mcd at If=20mA)*. 

So it seems they still use an old 'manual'. I think they would like to use a S Rank but Emil Ackermann told me on the phone that this LED would cost about double the price than a R Rank. I already have suggested to him to produce a Free Light II with a S Rank Nichia and some other features more .....

I'm quite sure we soon will have a lot of suggestions here how to improve the Free Light to make it the best available keychain light .....


----------



## lightlover (May 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*... Some of you as eg. ... our CPF friend from the parallel universe ... will receive their Free Lights a bit earlier ...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*IT JUST ARRIVED !! 
I really like it !*

(Only a few years ago, things like this were science-fiction).
Besides being a great idea, it's well made: cute, tiny, and almost weightless. The surface feels good to touch, like a soft eraser, but the body is tough enough to resist flexing. It's easily bright enough to navigate a room by.

The solar cell is sweet. I hope the glass covering is strong enough to resist some impact - it is protectively recessed.
For fun, I'll probably put a washer kind of thing around the switch as a guard.

Thanks for all your work, JollyRoger und René. 

lightlover


----------



## Klaus (May 4, 2002)

Mine too











Great little light !

I removed the blue straps - put little rings on them I took from small SAKs and put them on single car keys which had no light so far - think this will do for a first trial










Thanks so much René

Klaus


----------



## Badbeams3 (May 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JollyRoger:
*I am also not including an extra 7 lights that I am buying. I have to be truthful to you guys. Basically, I am buying these just in case other CPF members want one in the future (who might have missed this group buy). Since I don't know if I'll be taking the full cost of these lights, etc. or if they will sell, I just decided to make the cost of these 7 cheaper for myself (I'm only saving a couple of cents!). I will be selling these as follows: Max one per person, first come first serve...and will charge minimal postage fees, etc....I will probably charge $22 plus postage or something like that...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>













Put me down for one


----------



## yclo (May 4, 2002)

Klaus,

Nice key.





YC


----------



## remuen (May 6, 2002)

--------------------






*GOOD NEWS*







--------------------

Be happy don't worry: I have got Rogers payment!!

In about one hour I will bring all the Free Lights to the local post office so they will be dispatched still today!








Please inform me either here in the CPF or by email as soon as you have received your Free Light(s).


----------



## remuen (May 6, 2002)

*The Free Lights are on their way to you!*


----------



## Graham (May 7, 2002)

I've got all mine! Thanks very much Rene.

A couple of pictures are here.

Graham


----------



## Klaus (May 7, 2002)

Yclo,

the pic is really bad - so you might have KNOWN already how such a key looks like





Just got my new Digital Ixus V2 (aka S200 ELPH) and promiss better pics (of other keys)

Klaus


----------



## yclo (May 7, 2002)

Well the little emblem on the key does look familiar. (not that I have keys like that, but I wish..



)

YC


----------



## Alaric Darconville (May 7, 2002)

http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=3169 

Not exactly the same, but looks similar. And cheap!


----------



## remuen (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alaric Darconville:
*http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=3169 

Not exactly the same, but looks similar. And cheap!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, interesting ....

Thanks for this info. Does anyone have some more information about this solar keychain light? 

At least it has one big drawback: It uses a NiCd cell. You all know what this means regarding the self-discharge and the memory effect. Just a rough estimate: Ten times shorter life time and four times cheaper = two and a half times more expensive ....

_Added later: 
Ten times shorter lifetime means that a NiCd xell can be charged up to 1000 times, the Lithium cell in the Free Light up to 10'000 times. And the self-discharge of the Lithium cell is only about 0.1% per day ..._


----------



## vcal (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by remuen:
*Interesting, interesting ....

Thanks for this info. Does anyone have some more information about this solar keychain light? 

At least it has one big drawback: It uses a NiCd cell. You all know what this means regarding the self-discharge and the memory effect. Just a rough estimate: Ten times shorter life time and four times cheaper = two and a half times more expensive ....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've had that little $6.US light for 2 years now. It works fine (with it's #222 bulb), but I don't carry it because of it's lack of constant-on switch, and it can't compete with my Arc-LE and the Pelican L1.


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## remuen (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mr.glow:
*... with it's #222 bulb ... *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does this mean this light has a bulb and not a white LED? If yes the pic and the information would be misleading ...


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## **DONOTDELETE** (May 7, 2002)

I don't think the pic is misleading. The magnifying end of the #222 bulb is similar in size and appearance to an LED.

The ad even says "focused magnifying lens bulb" and makes no mention of the word "LED".

Still, the Free Light seems vastly superior, even at three times the price.


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## remuen (May 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alaric Darconville:
*http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=3169 

Not exactly the same, but looks similar. And cheap!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In case someone is interested:

In this light the solar panel (Cronar KC5325) is simply connected with a diode to the NiCd cell. The little incandescent bulb is directly connected to this cell.


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## Terrapin Flyer (May 10, 2002)

Forget the Free Light............
*SEND MORE CHOCOLATES!!!!!!!!*





Just my little way of letting you know that the Free Lights are arriving stateside, and that I *appreciate* the candy. The lights were/are worth the wait folks, definitely a quality LED light for the $$. Well built, very convenient, good packaging & instructions. In my initial "in a dark bathroom" test, I found that the light provides very adequate brightness. A nice light, esp. when you consider the fact that you're never going to swap out the batts!

The light is charging now and will be used well into the wee hours of the morn as we make our way across the lovely Great Lakes state from one soccer event to another



. It will see PLENTY of use among the family. I will report my findings upon my return.

Thank you one & all for making this group "international" buy a success. I enjoyed it & hope we can do more of 'em.


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## Klaus (May 10, 2002)

René,

now I´m really mad at you





You said the chocolates you included with my free lights had been my special birthday present - and now I realize everybody else got chocolate too





I think I will file more than that fair 14% off that Nichia LED I partly owe you











Klaus


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## remuen (May 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*René,

now I´m really mad at you





You said the chocolates you included with my free lights had been my special birthday present - and now I realize everybody else got chocolate too





I think I will file more than that fair 14% off that Nichia LED I partly owe you








Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey hey, they all have birthday too



!! 

And this little present is a really very very important safety precaution too. Didn't you read the the safety and maintenance instructions in the Free Light box? It says: *Neither free light nor any part of it should be eaten.* 

The main target of this little present is that none of our CPF friends tries to eat the black thing in the blue box. This is the Free Light!



There is only one decision they now have to take: Is the other thing also a part of the Free Light? If yes they shouldn't eat it too!





Btw we should first agree on where you file a part off on this Nichia LED ....


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## Evan (May 10, 2002)

My Freelights arrived today! Just in time for the weekend. This is one of those cases where what I recieved is *much* better than I expected. Smaller, more solidly built, and with those nice bluish-cast white LEDs I like best.

I have one of those $6 solar flashlights arround here somewhere. I think I bought it at Edmund Scientific a decade or more ago. It never really worked too well; the penlight bulb was a big load for a tiny NiCad that got an indifferent charge. I always seemed to be drawing the last bit of energy the cell had. Boy has the technology improved! Smaller, lighter, more efficient, and with built-in safegards we just wouldn't have concidered a decade ago.

So when others see these Freelights and want to get one, how will they get their own? Has AVEXA found a US distributer yet?

Thanks reuman and JollyRoger for all the effort you put in to make this happen.


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## remuen (May 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*
So when others see these Freelights and want to get one, how will they get their own? Has AVEXA found a US distributer yet?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

Hi Evan

It is a pleasure for me to see that you are satisfied with the Free Light.





JollyRogers has ordered a couple of Free Lights for those who have missed the group buy and he will sell them for $22 to $23. If you need some more of these lights you should ask him first (first order first serve). My own stock of Free Light I bought for the same reason is already sold.

As I have learned in another thread it seems that Avexa has found a distributor. It is Tad Gear (http://www.tadgear.com/X-treme%20Gear/free-light.htm). They sell the Free Light for $19.95 + $6 for shipping.


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## Evan (May 21, 2002)

I thought I'd see how long my Freelight would last, so I put a weight on the button it is still going strong after 3.5 hours.

This is 3.5 hours out of about 5; I stopped from time to time when I was distracted and didn't want to miss when it went dim, which it never did. 3.5 hours was not the end of it, I just ran out of time. Pretty impressive for what has to be a tiny button cell.


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## brightnorm (May 21, 2002)

At the risk of being considered a Philistine and a snickered swot to boot, I have to say that I can't imagine carrying or using the Freelight except in a survival situation on a trek gone bad, or in a similar dire straits event.

I EDC the Le and Inova with extra batteries for at least 20 hours of light, and if I'm going into uncivilized terrain for several days I'll also have my 40Hr+ Attitude with me. That's at least 60 hours of light right there which works out to five nights of constant on. If I'm feeling extra cautious I'll take a battery change for the Attitude for a total of 100 constant-on hours.

Considering this, what would be the utility of a 1-2hr runtime light that requires a whole day to charge?

If I just consider the light as a beautifully realized functional breakthrough light, then that is something altogether different, and my admiration and appreciation would be unbounded. In fact, I may buy it for just that reason.

Brightnorm


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## Graham (May 21, 2002)

I'm not sure about other people, but I don't think the Freelight can be considered a replacement for any of the lights most of us EDC - I have a Freelight in my bag (mostly for showing people..) but I still have my Arc LE on the keyring.

The Freelight probably has limited utility value to most of us flashaholics who probably have numerous lights concealed on our bodies anyway, but I think it is very useful for 'normal' people - I've given one to my girlfriend who didn't want an Arc AAA because she didn't want to mess around with batteries (no matter what I told her..)

I also think they are handy to put in places 'just in case'. There will definitely be one going into each earthquake kit I have here. I know if I had a car I'd be putting one in there too. 

Graham


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## Evan (May 22, 2002)

It has occured to me that about the worst thing you could do to a FreeLight is put it away in the dark, as most retailers will do to most of their stock. Only thing worse would be someplace dark and hot, like a glove box. Any specs on how long the lithium cell in the FreeLight can self-discharge before it gets into damaging deep-discharge?

Also, who makes the solar cell for these things? Never saw any like them. They almost look like they were printed on the glass like a half-tone image.


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## remuen (May 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Evan:
*It has occured to me that about the worst thing you could do to a FreeLight is put it away in the dark, as most retailers will do to most of their stock. Only thing worse would be someplace dark and hot, like a glove box. Any specs on how long the lithium cell in the FreeLight can self-discharge before it gets into damaging deep-discharge?

Also, who makes the solar cell for these things? Never saw any like them. They almost look like they were printed on the glass like a half-tone image.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The solar cell is from Panasonic. 

The self-discharge of the Panasonic lithium-vanadium cells used in the Free Light is very low. It is estimated that it takes about 1000 days for complete self-discharge (Avexa's test stands now at about 700 days).


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## The_LED_Museum (May 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*I also think they are handy to put in places 'just in case'. There will definitely be one going into each earthquake kit I have here*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is probably a good idea, as long as you take the Freelight out of the kit once a month or so for a bit of fresh air (and light) to keep it at its best charge.


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## pjenkins00 (May 27, 2002)

I really like mine, i pretty much edc it as a low level light source; who needs an infinity. I also carry a blast and soon an e2e so i don't think i need too much more light. Thanks guys for making this a good group buy.

- Pete


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## remuen (May 28, 2002)

From my side this group buy now can be definitly closed as MrBulk has received his Free Lights too. Seems the postal services have choosen their slowest steamboat to carry them to Hawai





Thank you that you have believed that the Free Light is a great tiny thing. Thank you all that you have trusted me and paid in advance to an unknown person in overseas. Thank you also for your compliments and praise. Thank you that you like this nice little thing. Thank you for your patience to all it concerns, especially Charlie MrBulk. And last but not least thank you that you're such great fellows!


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## JollyRoger (May 29, 2002)

That's great that Mr. Bulk finally received his! Aaaahhhh....now I can finally rest...knowing they weren't lost...


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