# **NEW** Sunwayman V11R (XM-L U2, 500lm)



## gopajti (Mar 18, 2012)

I found this







http://www.wikilight.de/bericht-192.html


----------



## Draven451 (Mar 18, 2012)

gopatji strikes again!

Nice find.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Mar 18, 2012)

DROOL

When's that coming out? I WANT ONE!


----------



## somnambulated (Mar 18, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> DROOL
> 
> When's that coming out? I WANT ONE!



Link says its expected in April


----------



## Fitz (Mar 18, 2012)

Shame they didn't use a screw on clip like the V10R Ti+.


----------



## madecov (Mar 18, 2012)

Could be a prototype. The final production could have a screwed on clip


----------



## peterharvey73 (Mar 18, 2012)

Nice.
Nice to see the more aggressive knurling.
Looks shorter than before?
Hope it has micro-amperage standby in the ring like the bigger brother V20C too...


----------



## koolranch (Mar 18, 2012)

Is it a clicky or piston. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 18, 2012)

You are just on fire these past few days! Way to go finding another great spoiler pic! :thumbsup:


----------



## CarpentryHero (Mar 18, 2012)

It's gorgeous oo: I may need to get a second job lol


----------



## Mr_Moe (Mar 19, 2012)

WOW, what a yummy light!


----------



## Kilovolt (Mar 19, 2012)

A German dealer has it on preorder.


----------



## tpopz2908 (Mar 19, 2012)

Kilovolt said:


> A German dealer has it on preorder.



Ya know, I've been in denial. I always tried to justify spending considerable amounts on new lights because I work at night.....they were just "tools" for me. Sunwayman has turned a fascination into a full fledged addiction. First the M40c, then the V60C, then the V10r t-6.......now this?

Ich bin ein Berliner!


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 19, 2012)

Kilovolt said:


> A German dealer has it on preorder.



94,90 Euros -> $124.79 USD

Seems a little steep, hopefully it will be less from other dealers once the light is actually released.


----------



## Mr_Moe (Mar 19, 2012)

That German dealer happens to have the highest prices of all in Germany. Won't ever order from him.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 19, 2012)

Good to know we can expect other dealers to have better prices, that's encouraging.


----------



## ChibiM (Mar 19, 2012)

It does remind of the sipik SK68


----------



## kkeyser (Mar 19, 2012)

Bigmac_79 said:


> 94,90 Euros -> $124.79 USD
> 
> Seems a little steep, hopefully it will be less from other dealers once the light is actually released.



Not sure if you can extrapolate with a simple euro/dollar conversion with that dealer. He seems to have some high prices, imo. If you'll notice, he has the v10a for 84.90 euro, which is about a 1:1 for us dealers (don't most have that one around $82?).

Also, did anybody else notice the v10r/m10r/v11r extender?
https://www.flashlightshop.de/produ...=8509&osCsid=5d25b3b7dec6c3490c153562d4a1355f


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 19, 2012)

kkeyser said:


> Also, did anybody else notice the v10r/m10r/v11r extender?
> https://www.flashlightshop.de/produ...=8509&osCsid=5d25b3b7dec6c3490c153562d4a1355f



That's great! The styling looks like it will match the V11R best, or the M11R if they make it available in the matching colors. I've been wanting SWM to make an extender to match the aluminum version for a while now. I've been using a Ti extender with my V10R AE, and it just plain looks funny.


----------



## aau007 (Mar 19, 2012)

Bigmac_79 said:


> 94,90 Euros -> $124.79 USD
> 
> Seems a little steep, hopefully it will be less from other dealers once the light is actually released.


That price includes a 19% VAT in EU. We don't have that on this side of the pond.


----------



## Lucciola (Mar 19, 2012)

aau007 said:


> That price includes a 19% VAT in EU. We don't have that on this side of the pond.



True! When you order from outside the European Union you don't have to pay the 19% VAT. So if you order at this dealer from the US the price should be EUR 94,90 -19% = EUR 76,87 which is roughly US$ 100,- (shipping included).

I already bought several lights from this dealer and can highly recommend him, although he's not the cheapest. But service is prompt and very friendly. Nice bonus: They'll laser-engrave any light bought from them without any additional charge. Nice touch if you buy a light as a gift for someone else.

Lucciola (who is not related with this shop in any way, just sharing experience)


----------



## Rokron (Mar 19, 2012)

I see another SWM light in my future.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 19, 2012)

> They'll laser-engrave any light bought from them without any additional charge.



That's actually really cool.

Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos.


----------



## Danielight (Mar 20, 2012)

Anyone know if Sunwayman is also going to come out with a v11*A*?


----------



## RBWNY (Mar 20, 2012)

Bigmac_79 said:


> 94,90 Euros -> $124.79 USD
> 
> Seems a little steep, hopefully it will be less from other dealers once the light is actually released.



Yow! Wouldn't sell for that much "here". I'd estimate $87. :naughty:


----------



## Torchaddict (Mar 20, 2012)

Danielight said:


> Anyone know if Sunwayman is also going to come out with a v11*A*?



I highly doubt it. They do have a AA extender though. That should fill the gap. Fits M10/V10/M11/V11


----------



## Cataract (Mar 20, 2012)

I've been holding back on the V10R for reasons I could not understand... now I do!


----------



## JulianP (Mar 21, 2012)

Danielight said:


> Anyone know if Sunwayman is also going to come out with a v11*A*?



Well, they're about to ship the V10R Titanium with extender in four days. It has 500 lumens from an XML U2. I preordered one from LightJunction.

I would have waited for the standard V11R with extender, which no doubt will be cheaper, but I thought it was time to own at least one Ti flashlight.

My V10A XML T6 460-lumen arrived yesterday, and I still can't put it away. It will be interesting to see whether the 40 lumens' difference between the two is noticeable.


----------



## AardvarkSagus (Mar 24, 2012)

Wow. This light is definitely a beauty. I sure hope they choose to go with a similar clip as the M11R though.


----------



## Maxspam (Mar 24, 2012)

I would so love to see one with no tailcap switch, twist disconnect like the m11r with a nice pocket clip and a variable ring with an "off" position like the v20c.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 25, 2012)

I wonder... since the new AA extender we've seen claims to fit both the V11R and the M11R, do you think you could take an M11R body and put it on the V11R head, to get a no-tail-switch infinitely variable light? This would only be practical, of course, if the V11R control ring includes an Off position like the V20C, instead of just minimum brightness like the V10R.


----------



## scottyhazzard (Mar 25, 2012)

What a conundrum, Sunwayman is putting out some nice lights that I would like but each has something that pulls me back from making a purchase. (or pre-purchase as the case may be) 
1.The V10R Ti the machining on the ad photos is not good, zoom-in and look. It's un-even in the grooves and detailing. I'm left hoping that they decided to post photos of the rough prototype.
2.The M11R is really nice but under-driven.
3.The V11R is going to have a clip on clip.

Each time it's almost perfect. But falls short. 
I Hope that the V11R will have a screw on clip like the V10R Ti. That would be sweet.
Am I overly picky?


----------



## phoneguy (Mar 25, 2012)

Although I am hoping the clip is a screw on, it is not a deal breaker for me. I like this light...

Bryan


----------



## turboBB (Mar 25, 2012)

@Bigmac - Dunno about the V11R but I've confirmed the heads are interchangeable between M11R & V10R (check M11R link in sig for pics). Like you said though, this only makes sense if the V11R will have an "Off" detent in the ring, otherwise you'll need to twist off to shut off.

@scotty - I measured the M11R's draw to be roughly 1A w/freshly charged AW16340 (non-IMR). While "under-driven" I was nontheless impressed by the output @ 31 seconds which was 288lms (and roughly 300lms at turn-on). Given this was nearly 25% higher than what Sunwayman claims (230), I questioned them re: this and they stated they tend be on the conservative side w/their claims.


----------



## scottyhazzard (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks, turboBB. Others have talked about SWM's intent to be conservative in their lumen ratings but to my knowledge you are the only one to confirm that this is a fact. Nice to see a company do that, put out a conservative lumen rating.


----------



## chevboy167 (Mar 26, 2012)

just scored the V11R Tan for $68.00. O the waiting game starts again!


----------



## roadkill1109 (Mar 26, 2012)

chevboy167 said:


> just scored the V11R Tan for $68.00. O the waiting game starts again!



Hehe! Good hunting! Where did you order it? Post pics when it arrives!


----------



## chevboy167 (Mar 26, 2012)

it was an OBO on ebay. For sure on the pics when she gets here!


----------



## SDM44 (Mar 26, 2012)

heh, I just now saw this thread but ordered the V10R for myself yesterday 

oh well, just means I'll have a backup to the V11R when it's available


----------



## roadkill1109 (Mar 26, 2012)

Wow, looks like i will be adding more 1XCR123 lights to my collection!


----------



## __philippe (Mar 26, 2012)

*V11R detailed specs and pics* just posted on manufacturer's site:

http://www.sunwayman.com/html/products/201203/87.html

cheers,

__philippe


----------



## GarageBoy (Mar 26, 2012)

How is this different from the V10R?


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 26, 2012)

__philippe said:


> *V11R detailed specs and pics* just posted on manufacturer's site:
> 
> http://www.sunwayman.com/html/products/201203/87.html
> 
> ...



Ooohh, the V11R "_révolution_"! Thanks for the heads up __philippe!

I'm a bit dissapointed, it looks the control ring goes min to max like the V10R, instead of off to max like the V20C. Also, they still show a snap-on clip instead of the screw-on clip that they gave the V10R Ti+.

Still, I'm very excited for this light, and it is a definite upgrade from the V10R.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 26, 2012)

GarageBoy said:


> How is this different from the V10R?



From the info we have so far:

+increased max output (up to 500 lumens)
+U2 binned XM-L instead of T6, more efficient (better run times when at the same output level)
+knurled control ring for better grip
+metal switch instead of rubber
+slightly better clip (but not much better)
+control ring marked so you know the level before you turn on the light
+matching extender available
+cutout tail cap
+*révolution*


----------



## Rokron (Mar 26, 2012)

Well, this definitely looks like another must have light. I cant wait to photograph this one.


----------



## damn_hammer (Mar 26, 2012)

the mr. elfin, the revolution ... what's with the cheesy names? i like the clean aesthetics of the original lights.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 26, 2012)

At least *révolution* makes sense, as the light is control by a rotating ring. Mr. Elfin I guess just means that it's small like an elf...


----------



## wuyeah (Mar 26, 2012)

500lm with regular non-rechargeable 123s !?


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 26, 2012)

wuyeah said:


> 500lm with regular non-rechargeable 123s !?



No, 190 lumen max on regular CR123's (though SWM usually underrates their output claims, so I'd guess it's actually a little more than that). The 500 lumen max is using a 16340 (or a 14500 w/ the extender) lithium ion rechargeable cell.


----------



## Ualnosaj (Mar 26, 2012)

Per SWM:

- Advanced Fully Variable Magnetic Control Technique
- Equipped with XM-L U2 LED, Max Output Up to 500 Lumens
- Broad-voltage Circuit, Better Compability
- Exquisite Metal Tail cap Push Button
- Optional AA Extender, Perfectly Two in One

Refer to their page: 

V11R MSRP is USD $95
Extender MSRP USD $18 (same one as with V11R, V10R, M11R, M10R)

Should be here late April.

*Great *on the metal tail switch.
*Not so great *it's a snap in clip instead of screwed in.
*Undecided *on the feel as it comes in like a Quark 123/V10R crossover (with the knurling)

Here's a bigger picture (than on their website):


----------



## Cataract (Mar 26, 2012)

If this was a high CRI light with the same specs, it would definitely be my perfect light. I'm still getting one until that day arrives...


----------



## Rokron (Mar 26, 2012)

I can see some Ti trit mods coming for this one. Let’s see now,



the bezel, the switch. Who knows maybe even a cooling fin.



Good grief! I’ll need to get a raise to afford all this stuff!


----------



## kkeyser (Mar 26, 2012)

Bigmac_79 said:


> From the info we have so far:
> 
> +increased max output (up to 500 lumens)
> +U2 binned XM-L instead of T6, more efficient (better run times when at the same output level)
> ...



I'm with garageboy on this, I don't really see the difference between this and the v10r. Some cosmetics, minimal increase in lumens from the t6 to the u2...if anything, this light cosmetically resembles others out there - the v10r does not. The metal button vs. a rubber one could even be seen as a downgrade by some if the metal button 'catches' and is not as smooth as the rubber one.

I'm not saying I won't be getting one, but I just don't see the reason for this. Maybe I am missing something, wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## F250XLT (Mar 26, 2012)

I definitely need to get one of these, I don't own any SWM lights yet...


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Mar 26, 2012)

kkeyser said:


> I'm with garageboy on this, I don't really see the difference between this and the v10r. Some cosmetics, minimal increase in lumens from the t6 to the u2...if anything, this light cosmetically resembles others out there - the v10r does not. The metal button vs. a rubber one could even be seen as a downgrade by some if the metal button 'catches' and is not as smooth as the rubber one.
> 
> I'm not saying I won't be getting one, but I just don't see the reason for this. Maybe I am missing something, wouldn't be the first time.



V11r has knurling on it which should hopefully make it less likely to squirt out of your hands compared to a V10r.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Mar 26, 2012)

kkeyser said:


> I'm with garageboy on this, I don't really see the difference between this and the v10r. Some cosmetics, minimal increase in lumens from the t6 to the u2...if anything, this light cosmetically resembles others out there - the v10r does not. The metal button vs. a rubber one could even be seen as a downgrade by some if the metal button 'catches' and is not as smooth as the rubber one.
> 
> I'm not saying I won't be getting one, but I just don't see the reason for this. Maybe I am missing something, wouldn't be the first time.



It's true that this isn't a huge step up from the V10R, but I think it's important to note that while the U2 doesn't have that much of a max output increase over the T6, it is also more efficient, which means that if you set them both at the same brightness and turn them on, the V11R will last longer. This is especially important for those of us that want to use 16340's, that have such low capacity.


----------



## JulianP (Mar 26, 2012)

Ualnosaj said:


> Refer to their page:
> 
> V11R MSRP is USD $95
> Extender MSRP USD $18 (same one as with V11R, V10R, M11R, M10R)
> ...



I am not sure about the pricing on this one. I think $68 is closer to the mark. For $68 one can buy the V10A XML T6. 

The RRP of $113 makes you wonder whether to go for the Titanium + extender, which sells for $188 un Lightjunction's website - $75 extra for titanium which IMO is not bad.


----------



## peterharvey73 (Mar 26, 2012)

Bigmac_79 said:


> Ooohh, the V11R "_révolution_"! Thanks for the heads up __philippe!
> 
> I'm a bit dissapointed, it looks the control ring goes min to max like the V10R, instead of off to max like the V20C. Also, they still show a snap-on clip instead of the screw-on clip that they gave the V10R Ti+.
> 
> Still, I'm very excited for this light, and it is a definite upgrade from the V10R.



++1


----------



## Skyraider59 (Mar 27, 2012)

kkeyser said:


> I'm with garageboy on this, I don't really see the difference between this and the v10r. Some cosmetics, minimal increase in lumens from the t6 to the u2...if anything, this light cosmetically resembles others out there - the v10r does not. The metal button vs. a rubber one could even be seen as a downgrade by some if the metal button 'catches' and is not as smooth as the rubber one.
> 
> I'm not saying I won't be getting one, but I just don't see the reason for this. Maybe I am missing something, wouldn't be the first time.



I agree regarding the new look of the V11R, you take the distinctive Sunwayman cooling fins type head away, and you are left with a body which resembles other manufacturer flashlights.
The body of the V10 and M10 series made them stand out, I am not saying they were perfect as they did not offer the same practical grip as knurling, but they looked different and this is what many collectors look for. I do! 

I like the new magnetic ring with visual markings but again I would have preferred a less conventional looking ring, the V10 ring despite the fact that it did not have outstanding grips did stand out in its look for me, 
I like the optional AA extender, I presume the internal will be made like the Ti version ie in one piece, if this is the case I think they missed a good opportunity by not making it with a removable inner sleeve, that way you would have been able to fit with the extender/sleeve 14500/AA and with extender minus the internal sleeve a 17500 which is about the same length as a 14500 but higher amperage. Now what a combination this would have been !
I like the XM-L-U2 anything squeezing a few more lumens and minutes is a plus for me
I like the fact that you can interchange parts with the V10R, V10A, M10A, M10R and M11R
I like the new Ti switch for it looks.
I am unsure about the new scalop tail, it may allow to have the V11R standing while the lanyard clip is attached to it (difficult to say from the photos), if this is the case this would be a good thing, this also look more tactical and probably easier to use with gloves, but for me the tail end now looks like many others. Regarding the light tail standing with a lanyard clip, all they would have had to do, is to manufacture a cut out next to one of the holes to allow the clip to lodge itself while tail standing with a lanyard. Simple and effective!

I use my lights and by experience the edges of the head and tail do get scratch/chipped easily despite the type III hard-anodize body and I would love to see the Ti bezel being sold as an accessory and maybe a tail switch with Ti bezel for those who like pimping their flashlights.

I already have a V10R Ti and was looking into purchasing a XM-L V10A or V10R in black, would I go for the new V11R instead? I am unsure, I will have to wait for a full review and loads of real life photos.

Skyraider59


----------



## Ualnosaj (Mar 27, 2012)

JulianP said:


> I am not sure about the pricing on this one. I think $68 is closer to the mark. For $68 one can buy the V10A XML T6.
> 
> The RRP of $113 makes you wonder whether to go for the Titanium + extender, which sells for $188 un Lightjunction's website - $75 extra for titanium which IMO is not bad.



@JulianP, that's just the MSRP. The MAP and actual selling price will vary of course.


----------



## lightseeker2009 (Mar 27, 2012)

Its being said SWM is conservative when quoting lumens output. They quoted the V10A to be 460 lumens with a 14500. What is the real lumens value of the V10A?


----------



## dlmorgan999 (Mar 30, 2012)

Skyraider59 said:


> I already have a V10R Ti and was looking into purchasing a XM-L V10A or V10R in black, would I go for the new V11R instead? I am unsure, I will have to wait for a full review and loads of real life photos.
> 
> Skyraider59



I'm in the same boat as you. I very much like the distinctive look of the V10 series. While it does have some nice new traits, to me this light starts to look much like other lights on the market.  Fortunately, at least the V10R Ti+ still keeps the older looks!


----------



## scottyhazzard (Mar 30, 2012)

I'm with most everything skyraider said and the rest of you guys. I really like the looks of the SWM V and M series. Hate the name Mr Elfin but find the light very distinctive and attractive. For my taste or preference I like for a light like that if it has no tail switch to have a length of about 100mm. I also prefer a lot of light on max, at least 500 lumens. I was hoping for a body more closely resembling the V10 Ti but in Al with anodization options like the Mr. Elfin. I also prefer a light with more a neutral light tint. If they could plug an XM-L T-5 into a V10R TI+ type body made of aluminum and anodized tan with a Ti clip, I would have the perfect light. (for me) As it is I put my money down on a V10R Ti+. I almost bought the Jet-Beam RRT-01 but I am waffling about the lack of a tail switch and a length of 81mm. A very EDC'able size and very nice looking but I'm just not sure. The V11R would be a no brainer if it had a screw on clip. I like how it looks with the AA extender. I also agree that the body does look rather generic, but I did not actually notice until I read it in a previous post. I would like to see a body like that of the JetBeam TCR2. 

Sorry for rambling, still drinking my coffee and not all here yet.


----------



## shawn.m.gao (Mar 31, 2012)

I feel that as flashlight connoisseurs, our taste should be more refined from having collected an abundance of lights, and we should expect everything from a new light. I would love to see manufactures produce more interchangeable accessories so that I can customize the light to my needs. Most likely, I will be adding this to my budding collection. I am hoping the parts will truly be interchangable with my M10R so I can swap parts!


----------



## sailor1179 (Mar 31, 2012)

its very nice,but 500lm,i dont think so:shrug:


----------



## scottyhazzard (Mar 31, 2012)

sailor1179 said:


> its very nice,but 500lm,i dont think so:shrug:



Watcha mean, sailor? You don't think that it will be so bright? Or you don't like it so bright?


----------



## BLUE LED (Mar 31, 2012)

Sunwayman stop making me buy your products :devil:


----------



## Skyraider59 (Apr 2, 2012)

shawn.m.gao said:


> I would love to see manufactures produce more interchangeable accessories so that I can customize the light to my needs. Most likely, I will be adding this to my budding collection. I am hoping the parts will truly be interchangable with my M10R so I can swap parts!



*Sunwayman and other manufacturer take note*! 
You have got a huge sales opportunity here in selling parts and accessories, I think really only Solarforce have realise this as they keep re-inventing the L2 flashlight by adding new bezel, new switch, clip, heads etc.

A few tritium accessories are available in limited RUNS from Veleno designs, but I would love to see non trit accessories. A simple ones and easy (in production already) would be the Titanium switch and bezel, they could be retro fitted to V10/M10 series! This would be popular I am sure. 

Guys I have started a new CPF thread [h=1]Show your Sunwayman V10 & M10 series[/h] so I if you have got some photos please post them 

Best 
Skyraider59


----------



## HIDblue (Apr 3, 2012)

Looks like the V11R is now available at batteryjunction. If I wasn't waiting on the Ti+ that I pre-ordered, I'd probably order V11R with the AA extender.


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 3, 2012)

HIDblue said:


> Looks like the V11R is now available at batteryjunction. If I wasn't waiting on the Ti+ that I pre-ordered, I'd probably order V11R with the AA extender.



The V11R is still a ways out. You're probably looking at about 2 weeks from when you receive your V10R Ti+ until the V11R surfaces.


___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## CarpentryHero (Apr 3, 2012)

Any V11r sold in Canada yet?


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 3, 2012)

CarpentryHero said:


> Any V11r sold in Canada yet?



Pre-orders abound... only... for now 


___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## CarpentryHero (Apr 3, 2012)

okay thanks


----------



## JulianP (Apr 3, 2012)

HIDblue said:


> Looks like the V11R is now available at batteryjunction. If I wasn't waiting on the Ti+ that I pre-ordered, I'd probably order V11R with the AA extender.



Thanks for the hot tip, I might buy one. I am not sure about the switch: In the BJ photos it is a SS switch in a black al body. It looks a little odd.


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 4, 2012)

Here's a higher res pic of the switch...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d83a5866-d1be-d905.jpg


Your image is huge it has ben replaced with a link
See Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels. - Norm



___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## HIDblue (Apr 4, 2012)

Ualnosaj said:


> The V11R is still a ways out. You're probably looking at about 2 weeks from when you receive your V10R Ti+ until the V11R surfaces.
> 
> 
> ___________
> Posted from my phone.



Not sure which site you're looking at but batteryjunction is showing the V11R will ship the next business day and not as a pre-order.

Looks like hkequipment is also offering the V11R on fleabay right now.


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 4, 2012)

HIDblue said:


> Not sure which site you're looking at but batteryjunction is showing the V11R will ship the next business day and not as a pre-order.
> 
> Looks like hkequipment is also offering the V11R on fleabay right now.



Darn Canadians always the last in. The "Canadian batch" isn't due to arrive for a few more days and then a few more yet to ship out meaning 2 weeks or so until it's in someone's hands. Now if those folks actually received already, let's get the reviews going! 


___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## Racer (Apr 4, 2012)

Aww two days ago I agreed with the wife that I'd wait until May 1st to buy the V11R. I agreed because I thought the new light wouldn't be out so soon. Hah, now I have to wait 

I'm really curious to know if there will be any rattle running an Eneloop or 14500. I'm assuming not but I'd like to see what people's initial impressions are. If not then I'm buying it.


----------



## Rokron (Apr 4, 2012)

IT'S HERE!! I just ordered the V11R from BJ. It goes out tomorrow and will be in my hands on April 10.




​


----------



## Danielsan (Apr 4, 2012)

its available now from my favourite HK dealer at ebay for 65 Euro and 13 Euro for the extender


----------



## SDM44 (Apr 4, 2012)

I saw it on BJ as well, and I was about to buy it but I've already made quite a few impulse buys on other lights in the past few days. 

Plus my V10R is less than a week old (I knew I should've held out) but I still like playing with it.... or I might just sell it cheap to help fund the V11R.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 4, 2012)

Rokron said:


> IT'S HERE!! I just ordered the V11R from BJ. It goes out tomorrow and will be in my hands on April 10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I also received a shipping notice on the V11R from BJ today. I'll be receiving a review sample, so I'll post a link here when the review is started. :thumbsup:


----------



## CarpentryHero (Apr 4, 2012)

Wow, they are out oo: dang I :broke for another week


----------



## e1sbaer (Apr 4, 2012)

Still comparing between V11R and RRT-01. Reverse polarity protection is not mentioned in the V11R specs. Guess it has to do without?


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 4, 2012)

e1sbaer said:


> Still comparing between V11R and RRT-01. Reverse polarity protection is not mentioned in the V11R specs. Guess it has to do without?



Yeah, you'll just have to try really hard to wrestle that battery into the tube right side up


----------



## e1sbaer (Apr 4, 2012)

Bigmac_79 said:


> Yeah, you'll just have to try really hard to wrestle that battery into the tube right side up


It would be no wrestle if I were to be the only one handling it


----------



## Racer (Apr 4, 2012)

Does the RRT-01 have an AA extender?


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Apr 4, 2012)

Racer said:


> Does the RRT-01 have an AA extender?



Nope.

However, the RRT-01's tube is wide enough that it easily holds 18350 IMR cells, which have higher capacity than either 16340 or 14500 IMR cells.


----------



## scottyhazzard (Apr 4, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Nope.
> 
> However, the RRT-01's tube is wide enough that it easily holds 18350 IMR cells, which have higher capacity than either 16340 or 14500 IMR cells.



Shoot! That was part of my decision process in getting the SWM V10r Ti+. That is- the capability for a different battery with higher capacity. #$&@! Now I'm gonna have to buy the JB as well. I better wait 'till my wife cools off about the SWM I just purchased.


----------



## AardvarkSagus (Apr 6, 2012)

I should have a V11R here very soon, quite possibly today even. Mine also is a review sample along with an M11R Natural, so keep your eyes peeled for new reviews within a week or so.


----------



## iron potato (Apr 6, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Nope.
> 
> However, the RRT-01's tube is wide enough that it easily holds 18350 IMR cells, which have higher capacity than either 16340 or 14500 IMR cells.



Serious ?!?!


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 6, 2012)

I received a review sample today. Here's a few quick phone pics 





















Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos.


----------



## HIDblue (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks for the pics bigmac! What's up the "revolution" marking?


----------



## SDM44 (Apr 6, 2012)

Bigmac_79 said:


> I received a review sample today. Here's a few quick phone pics



Cool. Is the AA extender on that? It almost looks like it's longer than the V10R in a couple of your pictures, but it may just be the angle.


If you have a V10R to compare with side by side, I'm really interested in knowing....

A) How much brighter the 500 lm beam is compared to the V10R's 460 lm beam with a 16340

B) How hot does the head get when running the light at max output, compared to the V10R


I'm very interested in picking one up, but the overall look of the V10R and the way the that clip is setup (how it bends up more for a higher ride & deeper pocket carry) is a little bit more appealing to me than the V11R. Although, I really do like the body-matched AA extender available for the V11R.

If you or somebody has the V11R AA extender, can you put that onto the V10R so we can see how it looks in contrast to the V10R's body?


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 6, 2012)

HIDblue said:


> Thanks for the pics bigmac! What's up the "revolution" marking?



I'm not sure, I guess SWM was just giving it a name to help it stand out.



SDM44 said:


> Cool. Is the AA extender on that? It almost looks like it's longer than the V10R in a couple of your pictures, but it may just be the angle.
> 
> 
> If you have a V10R to compare with side by side, I'm really interested in knowing....
> ...




The pictures do not include an extender, I do not have an Al one, just a Ti extender. I plan to see if the Ti extender will fit on the V11R.

For the brightness, I only have the V10R AE to compare to, and being neutral, it's a but dimmer than the standard XM-L version (405 lumens if I remember right). The V11R it's noticeably brighter.

The V11R seems to get hot just slightly quicker than the V10R.

Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos.


----------



## kkeyser (Apr 6, 2012)

I would be interested in how this compares directly to the v10r/a model, from looks, functionality, etc. I would appreciate anybody out there who has the v10 who gets one of these v11s to give their gut reaction which they prefer, or if they are different enough that they each stand on their own.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Apr 6, 2012)

kkeyser said:


> I would be interested in how this compares directly to the v10r/a model, from looks, functionality, etc. I would appreciate anybody out there who has the v10 who gets one of these v11s to give their gut reaction which they prefer, or if they are different enough that they each stand on their own.



I'd hope that the V11R feels grippier in the hand than the V10R, since the V11R has some knurling.


----------



## SDM44 (Apr 6, 2012)

kkeyser said:


> I would appreciate anybody out there who has the v10 who gets one of these v11s to give their gut reaction which they prefer, or if they are different enough that they each stand on their own.



I'll know by next Wed or Thurs. 

I just bit the bullet and bought a V11R, along with 2 of the AA extenders (in case I want to use one on my V10R, since it was cheap). That way I can test with both a 14500 and 16340 in the V10R XM-L and the V11R XM-L U2, and see for myself if it was really worth the purchase. Then one of them will become my new dedicated vehicle light, while the other goes into my EDC pack.


----------



## Racer (Apr 6, 2012)

I wish they wouldn't put cheesy things on the lights like "Elfin" and "Revolution". The light stands great on its own and doesn't need anything like that. Especially with the cultural disconnect that normally exists between Chinese manufacturers and their target audiences. Maybe SWM thinks they are being "hipster" or giving it some kind of "edge". If they are going to do that they should probably hire an American or European marketing firm for that.

But that's more of a general suggestion, and certainly not a deal-breaker for me. I'm really excited to be ordering one of these soon. 
This looks like a superb light!


----------



## tobrien (Apr 6, 2012)

Racer said:


> I wish they wouldn't put cheesy things on the lights like "Elfin" and "Revolution". The light stands great on its own and doesn't need anything like that. Especially with the cultural disconnect that normally exists between Chinese manufacturers and their target audiences. Maybe SWM thinks they are being "hipster" or giving it some kind of "edge". If they are going to do that they should probably hire an American or European marketing firm for that.
> 
> But that's more of a general suggestion, and certainly not a deal-breaker for me. I'm really excited to be ordering one of these soon.
> This looks like a superb light!


i agree with you. 

definitely not a deal breaker however.

anyways though, i can't wait to hear if it's a good upgrade to the V10A/R. will they release a V11A?

regardless of an AA/14500 version, I'll pick one of these up anyways i think


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 6, 2012)

tobrien said:


> i agree with you.
> 
> definitely not a deal breaker however.
> 
> ...



I think I remember reading that they were doing the AA extender instead of a V10A.

Here's a few more phone pictures, this time with the Ti extender. I think it looks kind of stylish with the metal button.












Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos.


----------



## Racer (Apr 6, 2012)

Is there any excessive wobble or rattle with an AA/14500 in it?


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 6, 2012)

Racer said:


> Is there any excessive wobble or rattle with an AA/14500 in it?



Nope, the extender is well sized for the batteries. 

Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos.


----------



## Rokron (Apr 6, 2012)

I should have my V11R with the extender late Monday afternoon.


----------



## CarpentryHero (Apr 6, 2012)

Is the UI the exact same, ie no hidden strobes or stand bye? I like the simple elegance of the V10 UI the new light is a beauty


----------



## kaichu dento (Apr 7, 2012)

Racer said:


> I wish they wouldn't put cheesy things on the lights like "Elfin" and "Revolution". The light stands great on its own and doesn't need anything like that. Especially with the cultural disconnect that normally exists between Chinese manufacturers and their target audiences. Maybe SWM thinks they are being "hipster" or giving it some kind of "edge". If they are going to do that they should probably hire an American or European marketing firm for that.


Me too, although I'm going to bite my lip and get one of these anyway. I may leave it as is, or try scraping it off - or hope for a Ti version that I can have all labeling machined away.


----------



## crizyal (Apr 7, 2012)

Does this have an electricic clicky or the same style as the V10R with a metal cover?


----------



## turboBB (Apr 7, 2012)

Mechanical clicky w/metal tail cap cover.


----------



## Racer (Apr 7, 2012)

kaichu dento said:


> Me too, although I'm going to bite my lip and get one of these anyway. I may leave it as is, or try scraping it off - or hope for a Ti version that I can have all labeling machined away.



Seems like if they wanted to be edgy there's so many other things they could do, like making the light in different colors. 
What about a solid Copper version!


----------



## scottyhazzard (Apr 7, 2012)

Racer said:


> Seems like if they wanted to be edgy there's so many other things they could do, like making the light in different colors.
> What about a solid Copper version!



Or different XM-L emitters for Neutral light, warm, cool etc.


----------



## kaichu dento (Apr 7, 2012)

Racer said:


> Seems like if they wanted to be edgy there's so many other things they could do, like making the light in different colors.
> What about a solid Copper version!


Yeah, I might go for a V11R Cu!


----------



## kaichu dento (Apr 7, 2012)

scottyhazzard said:


> Or different XM-L emitters for Neutral light, warm, cool etc.


...and I'll take the warm emitter too!


----------



## kkeyser (Apr 7, 2012)

kaichu dento said:


> Yeah, I might go for a V11R Cu!



I would think this would be pretty cool, especially after being used a bit and developing a patina.


----------



## Diablo_331 (Apr 7, 2012)

kkeyser said:


> I would think this would be pretty cool, especially after being used a bit and developing a patina.



I agree with you about the patina. If this was released in copper I would buy at least two.


----------



## Flight_Deck (Apr 8, 2012)

Just got mine (from Battery Junction). Tint is a bit whiter than the V10R, but not any brighter (running on a RCR123A). The switch is pure junk. I'm returning mine for a refund. 

For whatever it's worth.

Regards,
John C.


----------



## Floating Spots (Apr 8, 2012)

Flight_Deck said:


> The switch is pure junk.



Would you please elaborate a little on what you didn't like?


----------



## scottyhazzard (Apr 8, 2012)

Floating Spots said:


> Would you please elaborate a little on what you didn't like?



+1


----------



## crizyal (Apr 8, 2012)

Flight_Deck said:


> Tint is a bit whiter than the V10R, but not any brighter (running on a RCR123A).



I don't like the sound of that. I was hoping for a large increase over th V10R.

Edit: He was probably referring to the XML version. I have the R5 version V10R so I am still hoping for a fairly large increase in brightness.


----------



## turboBB (Apr 8, 2012)

crizyal said:


> I have the R5 version V10R so I am still hoping for a fairly large increase in brightness.



I've measured the output of the V10R Ti & V10A (both on ICR's) @ 266 and 335 respectively. The V11R easily trounces both @ 514.

Details and beamshots here:
turboBB's EPIC Indoor Shots Pt 2 (Klarus - Sunwayman)

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Apr 9, 2012)

turboBB said:


> I've measured the output of the V10R Ti & V10A (both on ICR's) @ 266 and 335 respectively. The V11R easily trounces both @ 514.
> 
> Details and beamshots here:
> turboBB's EPIC Indoor Shots Pt 2 (Klarus - Sunwayman)
> ...



Keep in mind that both the V10R and V10A also came out in XM-L versions. The V10R XM-L uses a T6 emitter and is rated 460 lumens by Sunwayman on ICR 16340. Going from that to a U2 emitter in the V11R might not be hugely noticeable.

Also, my recollection is the V10R XM-L pulled more amps and was slightly brighter when run on IMR instead of ICR cells.


----------



## turboBB (Apr 9, 2012)

Ugh, it lost my first reply which I had stated that both those were XP-G versions and I forgot to mention that in my repost. Apologies for confusion but both my V10R Ti and V10A are XP-G versions as I was trying to address cryzial's concerns re: noticing output bump vs. his XP-G version.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 9, 2012)

I've begun my review of the V11R here.


----------



## Flight_Deck (Apr 9, 2012)

Floating Spots said:


> Would you please elaborate a little on what you didn't like?



You bet. It takes a VERY firm press perfectly centered on the top of the switch to get it to work. The line of action of the "press" also needs to be directed preciously along the axis of the body to get it to work.

I'm the first to admit that the switch sure looks cool, and I love the idea of a metallic piston drive, but the light that I have requires some much more effort to activate that it's simply unacceptable to my way of thinking. You can't just scrub your thumb firmly across it like any of my other lights with the rubber switch cover.

Also on the brightness issue. The V11R may be putting out more light that either of my V10Rs (all running on RCR123As), but not enough to be detectable to the eye in a side-by-side white wall test at about 50 feet.

Regards,
John C.


----------



## Flight_Deck (Apr 9, 2012)

crizyal said:


> Edit: He was probably referring to the XML version. I have the R5 version V10R so I am still hoping for a fairly large increase in brightness.



Sorry, I should have been clear from the start. You are correct. I am comparing my new V11R to a pair of XM-L V10Rs, all running on RCR123As. 

Regards,
John C.


----------



## Flight_Deck (Apr 9, 2012)

Check out the latest in the *Sunwayman V10R Ti+* thread. It sounds like that model has the exact same issues with the switch.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Apr 9, 2012)

It sounds like the idea of putting a metal cover over a rubber switch just doesn't work in practice. At least not with a mechanical switch that requires significant travel, or at least not with the way Sunwayman has engineered it.


----------



## Flight_Deck (Apr 9, 2012)

Another data point (unfortunately): The lowest low of the V11R is not nearly as low as that of the XM-L V10R.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Apr 9, 2012)

Flight_Deck said:


> Another data point (unfortunately): The lowest low of the V11R is not nearly as low as that of the XM-L V10R.



Ouch! The RRT-01 is looking better and better in comparison.


----------



## Racer (Apr 9, 2012)

Ugh. You guys are scaring me away from wanting this light.


----------



## nakahoshi (Apr 9, 2012)

Received mine from BJ today and it looked like someone tried to take it apart and marred up the finish around the switch. This is what it looked like out of the box:


----------



## SDM44 (Apr 9, 2012)

After seeing more pics of the V11R, I really don't like the pocket clip that comes with it. For one, I'm not keen about the shiny silver/chrome look. 

But more importantly, the pocket clip doesn't allow the V11R to ride deep inside of a pocket like the V10R's clip does. IMO, this is important if I use this for EDC (same with a pocket knife's clip.... I like & want the deeper ride).




V11R has a noticable gap between the top of the clip to the end of the light. That part is going to stick out of our pocket quite a bit, which for some people they may like that as it's easier to grab onto (the area looks a little too small to grab onto with this light in your pocket).

I like the pocket clip on the V10R since it goes all the way to the end of the light, allowing for a deep pocket carry of the light.


See Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images - Norm


----------



## Rokron (Apr 10, 2012)

The brand spankin' new V11R with the AA extender 












V11R with AA Extender


----------



## Racer (Apr 10, 2012)

Is there some sort of insert inside the extender? 
I was going to comment that it looked like there would be a lot of play from the picture, but it looks like the AA is perfectly centered in the extender.


----------



## Rokron (Apr 11, 2012)

It's not an insert, it's machined to fit the battery though it's not a snug fit it will work effectively.


----------



## Rokron (Apr 11, 2012)

This is one nice little light, fits good in my hand, damn bright with a 16340 battery and will get hot when on turbo. The control ring works very well and is very easy to feel and use. BUT, the switch. The switch itself looks to be the same as the V10R but the metal switch cover I'm sorry to say, sucks. It binds and scrapes on the screw ring. It's also real sensitive to the touch. A light touch and the light will come on in the momentary mode but requires a firm push to turn on. I found when carring the light clipped in the front pocket, when seated, the light could very well come on in the momentary mode due to the ease of pushing the button.
I think when I get the Steve Ku switches for my V10R's, I'll swap to the screw ring and the rubber switch cover in the V11R.
What a shame, it's such a nice little light.


----------



## kkeyser (Apr 11, 2012)

Rokron said:


> This is one nice little light, ... BUT, the switch. The switch itself looks to be the same as the V10R but the metal switch cover I'm sorry to say, sucks. It binds and scrapes on the screw ring.
> 
> What a shame, it's such a nice little light.



This seems such a major issue. I wonder if you had a v10r and a v11r on your table and you were leaving for the day, which one would end up in your pocket?

After the newness wears off, it sounds like the v10r would be the go to light in that situation. Or do you think the button issue has been overstated? To me, they just seem too similar and if one is easy/pleasant to use and the other isn't, it makes for an easy decision.

I don't have the v11r, and after reading all of the disappointment surrounding the button, I don't know if it will make my short list. That's a shame, because I am a huge fan of the v10a/r version.


----------



## SDM44 (Apr 11, 2012)

kkeyser said:


> This seems such a major issue. I wonder if you had a v10r and a v11r on your table and you were leaving for the day, which one would end up in your pocket?
> 
> After the newness wears off, it sounds like the v10r would be the go to light in that situation. Or do you think the button issue has been overstated? To me, they just seem too similar and if one is easy/pleasant to use and the other isn't, it makes for an easy decision.
> 
> I don't have the v11r, and after reading all of the disappointment surrounding the button, I don't know if it will make my short list. That's a shame, because I am a huge fan of the v10a/r version.




The reviews from everyone with a V11R about the button is truly a shame to hear, mainly about the functionality of it and also about accidental turn on's with it in your pocket. While the V11R does have a lot of potential, it almost seems like the V10R may still have a few better details to it.

I guess the real test for me would be to see how bright the V10R XM-L is with a 16340 compared to a V11R XM-L U2 with 16340 on the highest output level, when side by side. I honestly wouldn't expect to see _that _much of a difference, and if that's the case then I might just stick with my V10R for now.


----------



## Racer (Apr 11, 2012)

Does anyone know if it's possible to swap that metal switch cover out for a rubber one? My M20C came with an extra, so it would even have the SWM logo on it. 

At first I was a little bummed that the wife talked me into waiting a month to buy the V11R. But she said "that'll give you time to read some reviews". She wasn't kidding.

If the RRT-01 had an AA extender available then I'd go for that. But I have lots of 16340 lights and it's the AA ones I've been interested in lately. I may just go for a V10A then, since I don't want an Aluminum V10R with a Titanium extender.

....or, *does the V11R extender fit on the V10R?* That would be a good option for me as well.


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 11, 2012)

There is now a warm (CRI >80) version of the V11R :duh2:


----------



## nakahoshi (Apr 11, 2012)

Rokron,

Could you possibly take a picture of the V11-R Head on a V10 Body? I might pick up a M10R (For Cheap) and swap the heads so I can have the better switch and body with the V11-R Head with better control ring. I have been using my V11R and its a nice light except for the switch. Thanks in advance

-Bobby


----------



## Rokron (Apr 11, 2012)

Here are the switch assemblies from the V10R (top) and the V11R (bottem). The switch itself is the same. I just took the V10R assembly and put into the V11R body, perfect fit, and I think it just looks better. I now have one nice little light!


----------



## Rokron (Apr 11, 2012)

Here ya go. The V11R head on the M10R body.





nakahoshi said:


> Rokron,
> 
> Could you possibly take a picture of the V11-R Head on a V10 Body? I might pick up a M10R (For Cheap) and swap the heads so I can have the better switch and body with the V11-R Head with better control ring. I have been using my V11R and its a nice light except for the switch. Thanks in advance
> 
> -Bobby


----------



## Univtex34 (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm going to sell mine I think. The switch bothers me quite a bit. Just pre-ordered a TCR-1.


----------



## nakahoshi (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks! It looks pretty good, I think this is the route I am going to take to avoid the switch fiasco. 
Great Pictures btw

-Bobby




Rokron said:


> Here ya go. The V11R head on the M10R body.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 11, 2012)

Rokron said:


> Here ya go. The V11R head on the M10R body.



I can't decided if I prefer the look of the knurling on the V11R or the old ringed look for the body. This definitely has an appeal to it.


----------



## Rokron (Apr 11, 2012)

I think this helps to maintain that V series look. I like it. AND you dont have to monkey around that sad switch problem. 


Bigmac_79 said:


> I can't decided if I prefer the look of the knurling on the V11R or the old ringed look for the body. This definitely has an appeal to it.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 11, 2012)

Rokron said:


> I think this helps to maintain that V series look. I like it. AND you dont have to monkey around that sad switch problem.



Very true, but I don't think I'll be able to justify to my wife the need to buy an entire light just to get the switch


----------



## Racer (Apr 11, 2012)

Does anyone know if the V11R extender fits on the V10R?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## turboBB (Apr 11, 2012)

Racer said:


> Does anyone know if the V11R extender fits on the V10R?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



The entire M & V series parts are interchangeable (head, tube, extender, etc).


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 11, 2012)

Racer said:


> Does anyone know if the V11R extender fits on the V10R?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



I can attest that the V10R extender fits on the V11R, so there's a strong chance that the reverse will be true as well.


----------



## Racer (Apr 11, 2012)

Great, thanks guys. I'm going to buy the V10R with the V11R extender then.

Too bad I don't have a M10R lying around to swap the body with. 

SWM should sell that entire switch assembly separately so you could swap it out as in Rokron's pictures, without having to buy a whole separate light. Let's just say the wife was opposed to me buying two lights to combine into one :scowl:


----------



## nakahoshi (Apr 11, 2012)

I was able to pick up an M10R for $53 Shipped so I could swap bodies. 

I really like the look of the MR10 body with the V11R Head. I think this is what the light should have looked like in the first place. The MR10 body is classy

I never liked the selector ring on the V10R, the knurled ring on the V11R is perfect!

Now I have a M10R with a crappy switch and its going to live in the car :ironic:











This makes the light 100 times better!

-Bobby


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 11, 2012)

Hmmmm so the M10R switch assembly by itself? That might be doable. No need for the bodyshell?


___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## CarpentryHero (Apr 11, 2012)

A hybrid light? That's downright Hot


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 11, 2012)

Guys FYI there is hope in the switch situation. Unfortunately I can't say much more yet.


___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## crizyal (Apr 11, 2012)

Ualnosaj said:


> Guys FYI there is hope in the switch situation. Unfortunately I can't say much more yet.




:thumbsup:


----------



## CarpentryHero (Apr 11, 2012)

Cool :thumbsup: good to know


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 11, 2012)

Ualnosaj said:


> Guys FYI there is hope in the switch situation. Unfortunately I can't say much more yet.
> 
> 
> ___________
> Posted from my phone.



Very encouraging!

Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos.


----------



## Racer (Apr 12, 2012)

Ualnosaj said:


> Guys FYI there is hope in the switch situation. Unfortunately I can't say much more yet.



If they do that, then I will suggest that my first grandson be named "Sunwayman".


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 12, 2012)

Racer said:


> If they do that, then I will suggest that my first grandson be named "Sunwayman".


----------



## Snareman (Apr 12, 2012)

Here's a video review I just did on the V11r. It is definitely an improvement over the V10r I had. I'll be curious to hear/see what the button fix that *Ualnosaj *mentioned is. I sure hope they can do something.


----------



## hazna (Apr 12, 2012)

does this v11r fit 18350 batteries?

Also do normal nimh AA work in this light? (with the extender tube)


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 12, 2012)

hazna said:


> does this v11r fit 18350 batteries?
> 
> Also do normal nimh AA work in this light? (with the extender tube)



18350 - no
AA NiMH - yes (with extender)


----------



## wquiles (Apr 12, 2012)

Guys, per the photos above, it looks like the V11R has the same problem with the push button switch, specifically with poor tolerances and noise with the metal button cover as we are having on the V10R Ti +. If you guys are interested, I am making custom Delrin button covers (a kit) to replace the metal button cover.

Will


----------



## Flight_Deck (Apr 12, 2012)

Ualnosaj said:


> Guys FYI there is hope in the switch situation. Unfortunately I can't say much more yet.



Yea... right. Sure. Ok. Not going to hold my breath for your super secret knowledge revelation, or whatever. 

s[email protected] has provided no reply to an email regarding their junky switch, so it's return time to be sure. I just can't see spending time and money to mod a brand new flashlight that should be fine right out of the box.


----------



## wquiles (Apr 12, 2012)

Flight_Deck said:


> Yea... right. Sure. Ok. Not going to hold my breath for your super secret knowledge revelation, or whatever.



Exactly. The only solutions are:
- a rubber replacement (like on the older lights)
- a new metal button cover and/or a new metal retaining ring

And it seems like (looking at feedback here and in the V10R thread) that it is common in the great majority of lights with these new metal button covers, so it is a "real" problem, not just a few lights.

Will


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Apr 12, 2012)

I like the look of the metal button covers. Just looks like they need to work on the implementation. Hopefully they will come out with a revised button design for future productions.


----------



## Flight_Deck (Apr 12, 2012)

wquiles said:


> Exactly. The only solutions are:
> - a rubber replacement (like on the older lights)
> - a new metal button cover and/or a new metal retaining ring
> 
> ...



Understood and agreed. 

As a matter of fact, I was the first one on this thread to point out the switch problem (post #123). It is a design flaw that Sunwayman should not have let out the door. I just have little to no faith that they will do anything to address the problem for those of us who have already purchased the lights, despite claims of super secret knowledge. 

Yawn.


----------



## Fitz (Apr 12, 2012)

Flight_Deck said:


> Yea... right. Sure. Ok. Not going to hold my breath for your super secret knowledge revelation, or whatever.
> 
> s[email protected] has provided no reply to an email regarding their junky switch, so it's return time to be sure. I just can't see spending time and money to mod a brand new flashlight that should be fine right out of the box.





Flight_Deck said:


> Understood and agreed.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I was the first one on this thread to point out the switch problem (post #123). It is a design flaw that Sunwayman should not have let out the door. I just have little to no faith that they will do anything to address the problem for those of us who have already purchased the lights, despite claims of super secret knowledge.
> 
> Yawn.



Little heavy on the drama? Maybe being a dealer someone knows something but not the details yet.


----------



## Flight_Deck (Apr 12, 2012)

Fitz said:


> Little heavy on the drama? Maybe being a dealer someone knows something but not the details yet.



Yea, you're probably right. Being an engineer though, it just really disappoints me when something like this makes it to the market. Grant it, they may not exactly have a quality control department, but anyone in the production cycle could certainly click a switch or two now and then to verify functionality.


----------



## Z-Tab (Apr 12, 2012)

Sunwayman seems to have quickly destroyed a lot of goodwill that they built up with the V10R/A. I hope that they pull it together.


----------



## Fitz (Apr 12, 2012)

Flight_Deck said:


> Yea, you're probably right. Being an engineer though, it just really disappoints me when something like this makes it to the market. Grant it, they may not exactly have a quality control department, but anyone in the production cycle could certainly click a switch or two now and then to verify functionality.



Agreed. The same tailcap was used on the V10R Ti2 but they were so limited that I don't think too many people actually used them so the switch didn't get the same scrutiny. Plus they had their own issues with the finish and the gold ones getting many complaints. I know I haven't used the switch on mine more than a few times before putting it away.


----------



## Racer (Apr 12, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> I like the look of the metal button covers. Just looks like they need to work on the implementation. Hopefully they will come out with a revised button design for future productions.



+1

I'd prefer functionality over looks, but if I can have both then all the better.


----------



## Racer (Apr 12, 2012)

Z-Tab said:


> Sunwayman seems to have quickly destroyed a lot of goodwill that they built up with the V10R/A. I hope that they pull it together.



Me too. My first "real" flashlight was a SWM M20C and I still consider it the highest quality light I own. The R20A is decently impressive too. I'm looking forward to hopefully buying more of their products.


----------



## kaichu dento (Apr 12, 2012)

Z-Tab said:


> Sunwayman seems to have quickly destroyed a lot of goodwill that they built up with the V10R/A. I hope that they pull it together.


+1

I've been thinking this exact same thing since the special edition V10R Ti lights came out, and it looks like they've learned nothing good from it. I hope I'm wrong, but I predict that they will do nothing more than offer meaningless upgrades while ignoring quality control, because after all, that's all the metal button with 'cool' SWM logo on it is - gimmick improperly executed, and the silence on the issue is deafening.

All they need to do is make some tighter spec buttons with higher polish on the sides and the whole issue could go away, but instead they prefer to just worry about the segment of the market that will deal with it and not complain.

I'm definitely getting a Jetbeam RRT-01...


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 13, 2012)

Flight_Deck said:


> Yea, you're probably right. Being an engineer though, it just really disappoints me when something like this makes it to the market. Grant it, they may not exactly have a quality control department, but anyone in the production cycle could certainly click a switch or two now and then to verify functionality.



Not so much super secret knowledge other than a commitment it is very high on the priority list. Given the V11R is the successor to the V10R, you don't need any secret knowledge to believe something will be done. What I have is a commitment it is being done. Whether it is retroactive to existing users remains to be seen. The dealer network isn't happy they need to send out free care kits, let alone replacement switch parts. If you have seen my track record, you can gauge if I'm crazy or maybe there is a modicum of truth. Anything I know, you folks know right away (unless requested withheld).

In the meantime, I say don't hesitate to explore the delrin option offered.


___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## AardvarkSagus (Apr 13, 2012)

Yeah, thus far my biggest gripe with it has been the switch as well, but I can say one thing. It seems to be getting easier to activate and less gritty the more I use it. Kind of a break in period you might say. I'd prefer it didn't even have that, but at least that is something.


----------



## nakahoshi (Apr 13, 2012)

Ualnosa said:


> In the meantime, I say don't hesitate to explore the delrin option offered.



Whats making me hesitate is that the delrin option costs more than 1/3rd the cost of the light (V11R). They need to come up with a new switch option that fixes their screw up. Its great that CPF members can come up with solutions to issues practically overnight, but they shouldn't have to do that in the first place on a brand new light.

Also, I don't think the care kit does anything to address the switch, and that's only for the Ti lights anyway. 

-Bobby


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 13, 2012)

Care kit: that's right, it is addressing the clip issue at the moment.

@bobby: as much as I dislike the RRT-01 I have to agree 

___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## e1sbaer (Apr 13, 2012)

Ualnosaj said:


> @bobby: as much as I dislike the RRT-01 I have to agree


If you don't like it, don't get it.


----------



## Ualnosaj (Apr 13, 2012)

e1sbaer said:


> If you don't like it, don't get it.



Not quite an option for me  Read my RRT-01 thread though, there are some good points.


----------



## Snareman (Apr 14, 2012)

Is there a possibility of oiling the button somehow? I don't want to drip some militec or something in there and ruin the light, but would something like that help at all?


----------



## Evltcat (Apr 16, 2012)

Hello Flash-a-holics,
My first post at CFP... I would like to thank each and every one of you for sharing your knowledge and experience with all us noobs looking for info that stumble on CFP!!! I have been reading the forums for about a month now, and I have to tell ya, I would have made a LOT of costly mistakes without all the great reviews, discussions, and opinions I found here! Heck, I had NO idea that two or more CR123 or RCR123 could be dangerous! Thanks to you guys, I'm sticking where I'm comfortable; one CR123/16340 or AA for my lights!

Now back to the topic at hand. I have 2 Sunwayman V11R's and love everything but the dog-gone switch. I saw this on Sunwaymans site this morning:

_*images removed by Greta - please read CPF Rules & FAQs regarding hotlinking_


_*content removed by Greta - please read CPF Rules & FAQs regarding shilling_

Looks like they heard you guys loud and clear. There is also a slight wording change on the V10R Ti+ page "Accessories: Clip, O-ring, RUBBER CAP, lanyard, holster" so it looks like they're going to send out the V10R Ti style boot for these too.


Thanks again to all of you!!!


----------



## asot (Apr 16, 2012)

*Evltcat* is right - SWM is listening!!!


On *V11R *product page, now states: 
_*Exquisite Metal & Rubber Tail cap Push Button*__ The V11R *comes with two switches assemblies*, one of which is the Ti switch, the whole tail cap push button is particularly made of metal, clear labeling, beautiful, practical and durable, which highlights the outstanding texture and the design aesthetics; the other is the traditional rubber switch, which is soft and easy to use. Users can always choose the one you are comfortable with and have the other one as backup._

There are also a few photos explaining the procedure to replace switch caps (via retaining ring)!


----------



## SDM44 (Apr 16, 2012)

asot said:


> SWM is listening!!!
> 
> On *V11R *product page, now states:
> _*Exquisite Metal & Rubber Tail cap Push Button*__ The V11R *comes with two switches assemblies*,_




Nice! 

Now my only question is, when will these ner '2 tail cap' V11R's get sent out to distributors? Hopefully soon.

I assume that SWM will either be sending out a free spare rubber cap to those who already purchased it, or at least offer one for sale.


----------



## doublevalley (Apr 16, 2012)

SDM44 said:


> Nice!
> 
> Now my only question is, when will these ner '2 tail cap' V11R's get sent out to distributors? Hopefully soon.
> 
> I assume that SWM will either be sending out a free spare rubber cap to those who already purchased it, or at least offer one for sale.



I just sent an email to SWM requesting the rubber switch. I'll let you know what I hear back.

I just put a 14500 in my V11R last night and what a drastic difference. The light is like the sun now! I know it doesn't have the throw, but indoors it actually looks brighter than my Fenix TK41.


----------



## Evltcat (Apr 16, 2012)

SDM44 said:


> Nice!
> 
> Now my only question is, when will these ner '2 tail cap' V11R's get sent out to distributors? Hopefully soon.
> 
> I assume that SWM will either be sending out a free spare rubber cap to those who already purchased it, or at least offer one for sale.



I don't know if Sunwayman is going to send the kits out directly, but I emailed the vendor I bought my V11R's from and they said they would be sending them out to everyone that purchased the lights from them.


----------



## Snareman (Apr 16, 2012)

Here is what SWM tells me about the switch issue:

Thank you very much for you email and the video of V11R.
 
About the V11R switch problem, we have taken measures to address it. When we finally confirm the solution, we will publish the details on our website and inform our dealers, you may contact our dealer to inquire then.
 
Thank you.
 
 
Best Regards,
 
Sherry Xu
 
SUNWAYMAN / SUNWAYFOTO


----------



## Skyraider59 (Apr 17, 2012)

Skyraider59 said:


> I already have a V10R Ti and was looking into purchasing a XM-L V10A or V10R in black, would I go for the new V11R instead? I am unsure, I will have to wait for a full review and loads of real life photos.
> 
> Skyraider59



Well I pulled the trigger on a V11R, despite the fact that I prefer the V10R shape, CRAZY, I HEAR YOU SAY. 
Got my V10R and extender today and must say that this is far from being a love at first touch!.
As some others have mentioned, the click has not got a nice feel and your need your finger bang on the middle for it to work smoothly, if not it will catch with an horrible noise, the control ring on mine is a little loose (side play) and do not offer a smooth positive rotation (feels that more grease is needed to take up the slack and give a firmer/smoother rotation) 

On the plus side the XM-L U2 emit a very nice white light in comparison to the slightly yellow/greenish tint of my R5 V10R Ti (did not realise this until the two are shined on a white wall side by side), the U2 is more suitable to indoor use which is why I wanted it! 
The holster is also nicely made.
That metal switch may look good but is horrible to use . I am please to hear that Sunwayman will be issuing a mode kit to current owners as there is a quality issue

Skyraider59


----------



## Skyraider59 (Apr 17, 2012)

Has anyone experienced similar problems with the V11R control ring ie feel loose? <<(side play) and do not offer a smooth positive rotation (feels that more grease is needed to take up the slack and give a firmer/smoother rotation) >>

Skyraider59


----------



## Skyraider59 (Apr 17, 2012)

Keep having thumb down on my post did not means to have this , can the moderator remove them has I am unable to do so, Sorry Skyraider59


----------



## dlmorgan999 (Apr 17, 2012)

You can remove it yourself by editing the post, clicking "Go Advanced" and then selecting the "No icon" radio button below the text entry box.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 17, 2012)

Skyraider59 said:


> Has anyone experienced similar problems with the V11R control ring ie feel loose? <<(side play) and do not offer a smooth positive rotation (feels that more grease is needed to take up the slack and give a firmer/smoother rotation) >>
> 
> Skyraider59



I don't have any looseness in my ring other than the in the rotational direction, but I do feel like the grease needs to be a bit thicker.

Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse brevity and typos.


----------



## Skyraider59 (Apr 18, 2012)

dlmorgan999 said:


> You can remove it yourself by editing the post, clicking "Go Advanced" and then selecting the "No icon" radio button below the text entry box.


Thanks, this has been done.

Regarding the metal switch, I had to temporary do something as the noise while the switch was sticking was really spoiling my V11R experience. 

I had a look in my "bitsbox" and dug out a DX blue rubber cap, I took the rear metal switch and the black rubber under cover out and replaced it by a trimmed DX cap. 
I must say, I was sad to see the metal switch go but this has transformed the feel of the flashlight. 
The light still tail stands.


----------



## JulianP (Apr 18, 2012)

Skyraider59 said:


> Thanks, this has been done.
> 
> Regarding the metal switch, I had to temporary do something as the noise while the switch was sticking was really spoiling my V11R experience.
> 
> ...



Sad state of affairs, improving a SWM with a DX part. I ordered a V10R Ti+ before the same issues were raised about the Ti's metal switch, and I am not looking forward to putting on it a bright orange or blue cap from DX. Hopefully I'll dig up a SWM black rubber cap from my V10A spares. What is wrong with the world?


----------



## Fitz (Apr 18, 2012)

I'm not too worried, they're working on replacement switches and it's not unusable in the mean time, just annoying.


----------



## Skyraider59 (Apr 19, 2012)

JulianP said:


> Sad state of affairs, improving a SWM with a DX part.


*I agree*, but this is the only spare cap I had! 
*Well, not true*, I totally forgot that my V10R Ti, did came with a SMA spare cap, so will be swapping caps again this evening! (Thanks for the idea!)
I think the real sad part is Sunwayman releasing several models with the same defect! Surely anyone trying the light during the design stage or during the quality control process would have spotted the problem and this would have been rectified before the production run? 
*A lesson, for manufacturer, get your pre-run new model field tested by flashaholics before releasing it.
(I would gladly do this for any manufacturer!)
*




Let's hope they come quickly with a redesigned cap as this one of the reason I bought my V11R instead of another V10R in black


----------



## wquiles (Apr 19, 2012)

Well guys, this is my solution to the problem with the metal retaining ring and metal button:












Yup, these are custom made, Delrin replacement retaining rings, which allow the use of the stock/metal button cover. Zero binding, completely smooth, no sound, no gritty feel. In my humble opinion this is what the factory should have done instead of the horrible metal retaining rings. 

I made a few, so if folks are interested, I will add them as an option to my custom Delrin button covers sales thread 

Will


----------



## nakahoshi (Apr 19, 2012)

Will, That looks awesome, I love how it really brings out the metal button. Great Job!

-Bobby


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Apr 19, 2012)

Wow that Delrin retaining ring looks amazing!

Will it fit in the V11R?


----------



## wquiles (Apr 19, 2012)

nakahoshi said:


> Will, That looks awesome, I love how it really brings out the metal button. Great Job!
> 
> -Bobby





Fireclaw18 said:


> Wow that Delrin retaining ring looks amazing!
> 
> Will it fit in the V11R?



Thank you guys 


I have not received my own V11R yet, but from reports from folks who have swapped switch parts between the V10R and the V11R, yes, it appears my new retaining ring will fit in the V11R as well.

Will


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 19, 2012)

That's great! How much might you sell those for?


----------



## wquiles (Apr 19, 2012)

Bigmac_79 said:


> That's great! How much might you sell those for?


These are done by hand in a manual lathe and manual milling machine (no CNC), so folks are paying for the machining time, and these are slow to make. Details and availability in my sales thread.

Will


----------



## wquiles (Apr 27, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Wow that Delrin retaining ring looks amazing!
> 
> Will it fit in the V11R?



I got my V11R yesterday. I had several folks inquire about my retaining rings and how they fit on the V11R, so the only way to know "for sure", was to buy a V11R.

The internals of the switch are of course the same:

I also just got a V11R - same switch as with the V10R Ti+:







and yes, it comes with the horrible sound of Ti on Ti as with the V10R Ti+:






So the first thing I did was to install one of my Delrin retaining rings:










It is amazing to me that they released two back-to-back models with the same switch defect!

Will


----------



## Racer (Apr 27, 2012)

Did the one you get come with a second switch? I'm ready to buy mine in a few days but not if I don't get the kit with the extra switch. The wife already said "no" to your custom parts.


----------



## wquiles (Apr 27, 2012)

Racer said:


> Did the one you get come with a second switch? I'm ready to buy mine in a few days but not if I don't get the kit with the extra switch. The wife already said "no" to your custom parts.


No, there was no second switch, no extra kit of any sort.


----------



## Fitz (Apr 27, 2012)

I believe lights shipping from the factory now come with the rubber boot switch installed and a spare switch with the metal cap. Dealers likely still have stock of the single switch lights though.


----------



## wquiles (Apr 27, 2012)

Fitz said:


> I believe lights shipping from the factory now come with the rubber boot switch installed and a spare switch with the metal cap. Dealers likely still have stock of the single switch lights though.


Makes perfect sense - I just got whatever they had already in stock, but I needed one right away to test my replacement rings with, so I could not wait - I wanted to be sure 

Will


----------



## Racer (Apr 27, 2012)

So, I wait X amount of time and hope that it's enough to get one of the new shipping ones. Or wait until I receive it and then complain, and hope they give me one of the kits. It's a bummer, but I'm gonna pass on this one.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Apr 27, 2012)

Racer said:


> So, I wait X amount of time and hope that it's enough to get one of the new shipping ones. Or wait until I receive it and then complain, and hope they give me one of the kits. It's a bummer, but I'm gonna pass on this one.



I bet you could probably send a message to a dealer asking if they have the new stock, and specifically request it.


----------



## Robocop (Apr 27, 2012)

I bought this light from Battery Junction last week and yes it is a decent light however the switch is honestly the only flaw for me.

I did speak with Battery Junction and they are a very decent dealer here so I was not suprised when they advised me they planned to ship new tail caps to past buyers soon. I was told they were expecting the new tail caps within a week or so.

Looks like past customers will be taken care of so all in all this worked out well. The tail cap is a nice "look" however a very poor design. Mine works well and puts a big amount of light out the front however I will like it much better with a new switch.


----------



## Snareman (Apr 28, 2012)

Robocop said:


> I bought this light from Battery Junction last week and yes it is a decent light however the switch is honestly the only flaw for me.
> 
> I did speak with Battery Junction and they are a very decent dealer here so I was not suprised when they advised me they planned to ship new tail caps to past buyers soon. I was told they were expecting the new tail caps within a week or so.
> 
> Looks like past customers will be taken care of so all in all this worked out well. The tail cap is a nice "look" however a very poor design. Mine works well and puts a big amount of light out the front however I will like it much better with a new switch.



Did they say if they would automatically be sending the new tailcaps out to customers or if we would have to contact and ask for them?


----------



## Fitz (Apr 28, 2012)

Snareman said:


> Did they say if they would automatically be sending the new tailcaps out to customers or if we would have to contact and ask for them?



They should be sending them out along with the "care kits" automatically to past buyers.


----------



## Robocop (May 1, 2012)

Fitz is correct as I was told all past customers would receive the improved version free of charge. I plan to contact the dealer anyway as I am planning a second order and will most likely add the tailcap with my additional order.


----------



## Snareman (May 11, 2012)

Anyone get their fix it kits yet? Or, anyone know when they are supposed to be out?


----------



## Fitz (May 11, 2012)

Snareman said:


> Anyone get their fix it kits yet? Or, anyone know when they are supposed to be out?



I got the kit for my Ti+ today. Installed the new switch assy. and clip screws, works great now.


----------



## Snareman (May 11, 2012)

Fitz said:


> I got the kit for my Ti+ today. Installed the new switch assy. and clip screws, works great now.



Did you get your's from batteryjunction?


----------



## Fitz (May 11, 2012)

Snareman said:


> Did you get your's from batteryjunction?



No, LightJunction.


----------



## wquiles (May 11, 2012)

Fitz said:


> No, LightJunction.


I received today the kit for my V10R Ti+ and the kit for the V11R. The kits are slightly different. I will try to post some pictures tonight.

Will



EDIT - here are the photos:


OK, here is the kit for the V11R:






Detail of the new switch parts:






Here is the kit for the V10R Ti+:






Detail of the new switch parts (yup, same as with the other kit - which is expected):






New V10R switch parts on top, old ones (with my Bearing Brass ring) on the bottom - yes, host bored for the "fat" cell :devil:






I assembled the V10R Ti+ with the new parts, and on the right is the V11R "stock" (old/original parts):





















Close up on the new (middle) vs. old parts (bottom):







No, you can't use the old Ti button cover with the new retaining ring - the retaining ring's ID is slightly larger than the OD on the Ti button cover:







Trying out the new screws on the clip:












Will


----------



## Bigmac_79 (May 12, 2012)

I've added some notes to my review after receiving the new High CRI version of the V11R and a AA extender. Unfortunately, while they fit together, they don't really work together. You can read my note here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...R%E9volution&p=3942360&viewfull=1#post3942360


----------



## Skyraider59 (May 12, 2012)

Hi I am getting a little confuse here, I was under the impression that Sunwayman was going to release a mod kit to make their titanium switch work properly as it should do, considering the price and high quality of the light!
Looking at the kit above this is to change the titanium switch to a rubber one!??? Not what I paid for when I purchased a V11R! Anybody know anymore regarding a Titanium cap update?
Thanks


----------



## kaichu dento (May 12, 2012)

Skyraider59 said:


> Hi I am getting a little confuse here, I was under the impression that Sunwayman was going to release a mod kit to make their titanium switch work properly as it should do, considering the price and high quality of the light!
> Looking at the kit above this is to change the titanium switch to a rubber one!??? Not what I paid for when I purchased a V11R! Anybody know anymore regarding a Titanium cap update?
> Thanks


It's the same as the way they fumbled the ball during the special edition debate - release a product which hasn't been properly checked for quality then refuse to handle it properly. The only way to do this right would have been to done a new run of properly engineered, spec'd and finished Ti buttons, but since it was more than they cared to spend on the problem they decided to handle it the easiest and cheapest way possible.

I like the feel and operation of the original rubber button on my V10R Ti and think they could have avoided any problems by simply avoiding the temptation to offer the Ti button in the first place, as it's only reason for existence was pure bling. Since they've come up with a decent fix, at least in terms of function, they should keep offering the replacement free of charge, but also include a tiny rebate or discount coupon to make up for the fact that the light as presently sold and advertised (with Ti button) is a poorly executed design.

They won't do it and people will continue to be happy with the V10R series, but I hope that at some point in time, they will get better control over both managements decision making process and quality control issues.


----------



## Ualnosaj (May 12, 2012)

They've made a minor change to he diameter of the button and lubed it up a lot to dampen it in the new shipments. No word on releasing this tiny update in general.


___________
Posted from my phone.


----------



## Snareman (May 12, 2012)

Well, as much as the Ti button was much better looking, the new rubber one is MUCH BETTER functioning. So I'm happy overall. I'm actually a little surprised they fixed it at all for those of us who already had the light. Still have no clue how the original Ti button ever even made it out of their factory in the first place without getting vetoed.


----------



## HK45 (May 14, 2012)

Why no proper wrench in fix kit ?


----------



## Snareman (May 14, 2012)

HK45 said:


> Why no proper wrench in fix kit ?



Would have been nice, but wasn't bad without it. I even just used a pair of hemostats.


----------



## fishndad (May 14, 2012)

Maxspam said:


> I would so love to see one with no tailcap switch, twist disconnect like the m11r with a nice pocket clip and a variable ring with an "off" position like the v20c.




i agree man the m11r is the such a classic look ,i have rrt01 and pc10 only cuz i got cought up in the battle over lumen,or who has the bigger lumen LOL , only to leave me still wanting the Elfin.


----------

