# AW's Going Regulated ! W00T !



## LuxLuthor (Aug 30, 2007)

I suspect not many of you have seen AW's notes about his soon to be released D drivers, and even better, a regulated driver (in 1-2 months). Scant details about it are buried in his C Driver sales thread starting with this post.

Basically, you will tell him the Voltage you want delivered to the bulb for a given application, and he will set it for that to now let you have regulated voltage. The battery source can be up to 30V and his regulated driver will step it down to the optimal bulb voltage.

So if you have a 14.4V battery pack, and you want to drive an 1185 at 10.8V (or 10.9V), his driver will work with that until your batteries either reach their own discharge cutoff (i.e. AW Li-Ion PTC cutoff), or the voltage sags below that specified setting.

This is essentially what AWR's (similar initials, but no connection) Hotdriver has been doing, but AWR's has an added bonus feature of the user being able to adjust the voltage delivered to the bulb with a screwdriver and DMM readings. So, AWR's Hotdriver is more flexible, but they are hard to get.

I am not sure if AW's new regulated version will also have the feature of various settings depending on the number of clicks, but that is a secondary benefit to being able to have a soft starting & regulated driver to get the optimum voltage for your bulbs without insta-flashing them.

The discussion about these drivers does not really belong in that long C driver sales thread, so I thought I would make this post, begging AW's forgiveness....but I cannot contain my excitement at this development.

:thumbsup:


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## DUQ (Aug 30, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

There goes the budget again.....hmmmm I have a cut down Mag sitting here. What to build.


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## Icebreak (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

It's good that you opened a thread about it, LuxLuthor. I'd sure like to see some more discussion about it. I haven't been following the C thread in the Marketplace. You original post is very helpful. Maybe AW will chime in with a little more detail.

You may know the answer to this question. What is the sweet spot for a 5761?


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## Cerbera (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



Icebreak said:


> It's good that you opened a thread about it, LuxLuthor. I'd sure like to see some more discussion about it. I haven't been following the C thread in the Marketplace. You original post is very helpful. Maybe AW will chime in with a little more detail.
> 
> You may know the answer to this question. What is the sweet spot for a 5761?


 
Good question! I would like to know as well since I have switched from 1185 to 5761. I may have to convert to D bodies now...I love my C bodies:mecry:


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## jimjones3630 (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

Northern Lights mentioned in one of his threads regarding the 5761 it may actually output more, I believe, at 6.8v. Hopeful will see more data or consolidated into one thread.

Thanks Lux


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

My understanding for the 5761 is more like 7.1 to 7.2 Vbulb. I have to find the notes, but Northern Lights has sorted this out, as well as the 64430. Worst case, I'll test it with a Hotdriver.


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## barkingmad (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

Are the regulated versions still going to have 'soft start' as well?


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

Although AW has not said so specifically, it would be of little use without a soft starter....so I can not imagine he would not include that....and it is modeled after his mag C driver which has soft start and selectable output levels. That last feature is what I'm not sure if he is including with the D Regulated, but I'm guessing it will have that also. Use my link to read his page one features of C driver.


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## AW (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

Yes, regulated version Mag driver will feature soft start and multi-level ( all level regulated ). Things being considered are auto step down, low battery warning flash.


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## BoomerSooner (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

Damn you guys are good! :thumbsup:


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## jimjones3630 (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

Thought NL mentioned 6.8v for 5761.

"Yes, in this case it is 6.6 volts at the bulb, even though the raters show the batter voltage at 7.2, some new data is beginning to show that the 5761 is best at 6.8. Above that you risk insta flash."

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/170972&highlight=5761+6.8

At $6 apeice 5761s I've instantflashed are rememberable. So, Northern Lights NTC solution is welcome, wonderfully simple, effective, and cheap. My favorite three!

NTC on 2xAW C's with 5761 looks as bright to me side by side to one without NTC. That lower vbulb is "better" is counter intitive and indicates original thinking.

No one has posted more in sheer volume, or quality of research on the 5761 than NL so I just take the que and work toward 6.8v


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## jimjones3630 (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

Did not intend to get so far off topic in previous post. Look forward to AW's new D Cell version and plan to get at least one. 

Have only one HD Hot Driver and dread trying to adjust vbulb to get 6.8v


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## LumenHound (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



Icebreak said:


> What is the sweet spot for a 5761?




7.10-7.15 volts seems to be the right area provided your willing to give up long total bulb running lifespan.
7.20V with softstart is what I'd look at for a reliable max brightness setting.
The 5761 can instaflash quickly above a constant and steady 7.25 volts.

Your mileage may vary.
I've instaflashed 3 so far and have a few left.


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## Rookwood (Aug 31, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

Any possibility of a version that has _only _the soft-start? Even better, the option to move a jumper/cut a trace on the pcb to disable the regulation.

I love the bells and whistles, but sometimes you want to use up the lower range of your primaries in an emergency situation without the circuit cutting off.

Thanks


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 1, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

I'm pretty sure the concern raised about flashing 5761 at 7.15-7.2V is in large part related to the stress on the bulb at startup spike current that the softstart would address.


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## Northern Lights (Sep 1, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

5761 may work better at 6.8-6.9 Vbulb was refering to some information I got from a person working with some good test equiment, and that refers to bulb life without insta flashing. Off course the hotter the element the brighter the bulb but what may have been indicated to me is that after about 6.9 your eyes do not notice the difference. I will contact the individual again and see where his development went. At that time I was having an expensive episode of insta flashes as was he. I was also wondering if there was a run of bulbs where the manufaturer's tolerances on the filament were leaning to the lower side. These latest ones definately had a different size envelope and would not fit previously bored out reflectors. Remember we are pushing these beyond what they are guaranteed to do so we should see some discrepencies. Also at that time I found that 6.9 volts was not flashing the bulbs. With soft start someone will bite the bullet and see how far up the meter we can push these. I know others have measured Vbulb at 7.1 for a stellar output. I do not think my latest batch of Phillips will take that. I am looking into obtaining a good voltage supply with variable voltage and amp settings. That is the only way to see what really is happening. BobG may have some good input here as he may be the 5761 pioneer.


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## strideredc (Sep 1, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

AW, 

please, please include a voltage trim pot on it, that would make it perfect IMHO


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 1, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

He already said it will not have an adjusting trim potentiometer like AWR's Hotdriver. While it would be nice, it is not critical, as it just means you use a particular AW driver for a particular bulb.


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## Patriot (Sep 1, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



AW said:


> Yes, regulated version Mag driver will feature soft start and multi-level ( all level regulated ). Things being considered are auto step down, low battery warning flash.


 

Auto step down! Woot! Neat stuff! :thumbsup:


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## strideredc (Sep 2, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



LuxLuthor said:


> He already said it will not have an adjusting trim potentiometer like AWR's Hotdriver. While it would be nice, it is not critical, as it just means you use a particular AW driver for a particular bulb.


 
lux, if you dont ask you dont get!
it would make it a bit easyer to switch around from mag to mag with a trim pot, but it any gona stop me getting one. and to be fair theres prob. less to go wrong!

cant wait...


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## sandbasser (Sep 2, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



Patriot36 said:


> Auto step down! Woot! Neat stuff! :thumbsup:



In the short time I've been a member of this forum I've become familiar with many of the acronyms; but, now I'm really puzzled about "WOOT". I googled it and there's an online store with that name but no acronym. 

Can anybody help???


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## jefft (Sep 2, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



sandbasser said:


> In the short time I've been a member of this forum I've become familiar with many of the acronyms; but, now I'm really puzzled about "WOOT". I googled it and there's an online store with that name but no acronym.
> 
> Can anybody help???



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woot


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## RickB (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



jefft said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woot



At the risk of drifting too far offtopic, I'm pretty sure the use of "woot" in this thread has more to do with this sense of the word:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woot

And yes, I emitted a few WOOTs after I heard about AW's plans. Personally, I'd love it if the bulb voltage were user-adjustable, so I could move it between lights or use it with different bulbs, but this is pretty darn good.

-Rick


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## DM51 (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

LOL. For me, "WOOT" is the noise an emergency navy siren makes, like when they see an enemy submarine, or when James Cagney found out someone had thrown his palm tree overboard in that great classic film Mr Roberts (Henry Fonda, Jack Lemmon).

I can just imagine LuxLuthor making that noise when he found out AW was doing these regulated drivers, lol.


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## sandbasser (Sep 3, 2007)

:thanks: to jefft, RickB and DM51 for the enlightenment (that's what this forum's for, right!!!)

And sorry for highjacking this thread... 

Now back to the topic...


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## Bob_G (Sep 3, 2007)

Here's all I know - i.e. not much  - about the 5761.

Been running two lights for some time now, both with the same 4800AH pack (2S3P 17670 protected.) 

Both hotdrivered at 7.2V as set by AWR.

Checked one with partially used pack one and it was 7.15V.

As noted by NL I think, if you use C li-ion, you're probably not going to get much better than 6.8V anyway, so a healthy power supply is essential if you want to set a regulated 5761 at 7+V.

I use several hotwires, but default to the 5761 - it's also the only light I have to blow a bulb in use so far. But that was after a maybe 6 months at least. 

For a time I had one light at 7.0V and didn't notice a difference in casual use - with the same driver in a WA1111 it was subtly but irritatingly lower than another 1111 at 7.2V. So sweetspot wise, 7.05 or so may be the thing, but you still need a battery pack that can run not much more than 1C to make it work. On 2xC li-ion I'd probably go with 6.5 or so, which doesn't even make it worthwhile to me.

My favorite setup for 2xC would be the 1160 at 6.9V. This would be a much more sensible setup to me, and it makes a truly great beam, the best of the WA bulbs. I run two 3.3AH and 4AH packs) at this V with no problems.

NL - where did you buy those new bulbs? This is disappointing to say the least. They're branded Phillips? I get my bulbs from replacementlightbulbs.com - he'll usually answer the phone, so maybe I'll give him a call and see if he knows anything.


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## cnjl3 (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*

My vote is also for a user-adjustable driver so so we dont wind up with a driver dedicated for only "one" voltage.
But in AW's defense i would point out that on AWR's HD the weakest point are his "adjustable' trim pots.



RickB said:


> Personally, I'd love it if the bulb voltage were user-adjustable, so I could move it between lights or use it with different bulbs.


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## Northern Lights (Sep 4, 2007)

Bob_G said:


> NL - where did you buy those new bulbs? This is disappointing to say the least. They're branded Phillips? I get my bulbs from replacementlightbulbs.com - he'll usually answer the phone, so maybe I'll give him a call and see if he knows anything.


I got them from bulbconnection.com. Like always, same Phillips box, codes and all. They are made in Germany. The first thing I noticed was the envelope was ever so slightly bulged at the crimp. I found that when I broke the pins off the first one I put into a light that had a reflector that closely fit the former 5761s. I am afraid I did not keep track of the actual Vbulb on two lights but those lights immediately blew the new batch. Well, that was good because from it I found the proper NTC to run and have had no problems since on Lion and NiMh right off the charger.
I suspect the bulbs are within the manufacturer's tolerances for the prescribed 6Vs.


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## litho123 (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



cnjl3 said:


> My vote is also for a user-adjustable driver so so we dont wind up with a driver dedicated for only "one" voltage.
> But in AW's defense i would point out that on AWR's HD the weakest point are his "adjustable' trim pots.


 
It's an interesting point to ponder. But I would tend to disagree.

Having helped AWR introduce the HotDriver, I saw basically two kinds of "problems" develop with the HD.

I thought that some folks were (ab)using the HD's beyond their designed capabilities. Too much of a mis-match between v-bulb and v-batt would cook the HD. 

I didn't think the adjustable trim pots were a problem as much as they were confusing to operate for some folks. I rec'd frequent Q's off-line asking about perceived problems - usually caused by changing the voltage. AWR's design had a coarse and a fine adjustment. Sometimes folks would get them mixed up ... then the pots were turned the wrong way ... then they forgot to put in the proper battery pack to set the new voltage ... etc.

For someone not familiar with them, the HD's were best left alone after the voltage was pre-set.



Now, AW's new regulated design sounds great and I can't wait to try it out when it hits the CPF market. 
I think the "you specify, I'll set it" fixed voltage is a smart first step on AW's part. It will avoid a lot of "problems" in the long run.

If a user adjustable pot is incorporated, I would suggest only a fine type adjustment. Say + / - say 5% of pre-set voltage to give it a little more flexibility.


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## Northern Lights (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



litho123 said:


> ...
> If a user adjustable pot is incorporated, I would suggest only a fine type adjustment. Say + / - say 5% of pre-set voltage to give it a little more flexibility.


I am familiar with all those other problems with the adjustments. This last statement makes a great deal of sense and I am for it. 
Recently I have run into a problem where a standard design seems to rock beteween 6.9Vbulb and 7.1Vbulb. I would dislike having ordered a driver only to find I needed a slight tweak after working out the bugs. A 20-25% leeway on low voltages is good. Higher Vbulb should be less in %. It is usually only a Volt or two on any design that maximizes it.


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## petrev (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi All

My Vote 
- High quality multi-turn pot with single level output - 



moved from sales thread said:


> AW said:
> 
> 
> > - The unregulated version will handle different bulbs like the C version with Vin = Vout.
> ...


for reasons noted in post to the Original/V2 sales thread . . . most faults with AWR-HDs seem to have been dodgy pots or overcooking the FET through misuse (LDO regulators not happy with flashing or over large pack-bulb V difference - not applicable to PWM regulators).

As said when overdriving lamps different batches may vary a bit while still being within tolerence for original designed use ! 

Have just looked up the AWR Hotrater XLS and it gives lots of great info on regulated drive levels for many of the common bulbs. Hopefully this may be useful in determining settings for fixed-V D-Regulators. 

Some real world measurements of Vbulb for MagMods and Regulated HotWires would be nice too . . . I'll have to check my little brood.

Osram 64275 not listed so if anyone knows the correct values ? that would be great ( 6.8~7.0 Vbulb ? )

Cheers Pete


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## Flash Harry (Sep 5, 2007)

AW has asked that we express interest here.



> Originally Posted by *AW*
> 
> 
> _- _
> _- If there is enough interest, I may offer another regulated version with a trim pot. This trim pot version features soft start, regulated single brightness level output and low batt. warning._


 





That'll be the one for me. I'm officially expressing interest. I think these would be the big sellers for those playing with hotwires.


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## AW (Sep 5, 2007)

Pete,

The low battery warning will be set at a few percentage point below when the driver runs out of regulation. The user has to decide their pack's voltage and cell combination/ chemistry so that when the driver falls out of regulation, the pack won't be over discharged ( 3.0V for LiIon and 0.9V for NiMH ). For example, if you set the regulated Vout @12V, you should use no more than four LiIon cells / 14 NiMH cells in your pack. There is no point where you can over discharge your pack when the light is still running in regulation.

AW


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## petrev (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi AW,

Thanks that clears it up - presumably using protected cells would then allow one to use more cells and rely on the cell protection to cut in.

On another note, if you are not too busy ! any chance of say 7500-D cells fitted with your cell protection circuit ? 
5000mAh D-unprotected seem to have gone on general release but genuine super AW cells would be rather nice.

Thanks again
Pete


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## AW (Sep 5, 2007)

Pete,

Using protected cells may do if you want to use more cells with more regulated runtime.

I don't have any 32mm protection pcb yet. I 'll need to know detail spec. of the cells ( such as max. ptc threshold ) before I can make the pcbs to maximize the performance of the D cells.

Regards,
AW


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## strideredc (Sep 5, 2007)

AW,

i am deff. in for a unregulated d cell mag and one with a trimpot type device for adjustment of bulb voltage.

make one of each type:laughing: i think they will sell...


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## tomL (Sep 5, 2007)

I'm definitely interested in a regulated model.

I like "the works": selectable brightness levels, soft-start, and some means of setting the output voltage. I could see doing it digitally instead of with an old-fashioned analog trimpot (as long as it has memory, and if it forgets, defaults to a safe low volatge).

I'd be happy with either a C or D model.


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## Valolammas (Sep 5, 2007)

Now this sounds interesting!

I know it's a bit early, but how much do you think these are going to cost? Less than, more than, or about $100?

(Edit: hey, looks like I finally made it to flashaholic status with this post. Woot!)


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## dolbyyy (Sep 5, 2007)

Valolammas said:


> Now this sounds interesting!
> 
> I know it's a bit early, but how much do you think these are going to cost? Less than, more than, or about $100?
> 
> (Edit: hey, looks like I finally made it to flashaholic status with this post. Woot!)



..and when do you think these will start to be available to buy?


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## Nitro (Sep 5, 2007)

AW said:


> Pete,
> 
> Using protected cells may do if you want to use more cells with more regulated runtime.
> 
> ...



WOW! Regulated D Switches. Protected D Cell's. Am I sensing a [email protected] 3D 100W light, with a 30min runtime?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 6, 2007)

I think the preference for many of us would be an adjustable POT regulated switch/bipin setup if that is still a possibility. It seems a setup for a D cell is a whole other topic, but judging by the feeler threads, there is a lot of people looking for those also. I'm not sure how effective it will be to use this thread to guage interest in both items.


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## Nitro (Sep 6, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> I think the preference for many of us would be an adjustable POT regulated switch/bipin setup if that is still a possibility. It seems a setup for a D cell is a whole other topic, but judging by the feeler threads, there is a lot of people looking for those also. I'm not sure how effective it will be to use this thread to guage interest in both items.



Sorry, I got a little excited when AW said, "I don't have any 32mm protection pcb *yet*".


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## Aircraft800 (Sep 6, 2007)

AW said:


> I don't have any 32mm protection pcb yet. I 'll need to know detail spec. of the cells ( such as max. ptc threshold ) before I can make the pcbs to maximize the performance of the D cells.
> 
> Regards,
> AW


 

AW,

You are designing a PCB for D-size 32600 Li-ion 5000mAh battery's also? 

*WOOT!!*

I know you have a lot of other projects, just sparked my interest.

(I didn't mean to hijack this thread, but in response to other hints AW posted here)


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## Daekar (Sep 6, 2007)

Umm... this is about the regulated drivers... remember? Personally I'll be in for at least one or two... I was thinking I could drive a ROP HI for a good long time on 3 C-li-ions or 3 D-li-ions if they come out. It'll be nice to have lower current demanded of the cells because that will increase the total effective capacity available...


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## Lunal_Tic (Sep 9, 2007)

Any chance of reversing the order of power on? (i.e. High, Medium, Low) I usually run my incans outside and have smaller lights for close work so High would be the most used setting and it would be nice not to have to toggle through Low and Medium to get to it.

Cheers,
-LT


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## AW (Sep 9, 2007)

LT,

The driver has last setting memory. You can set it to turn on high and it will remember this setting until you remove the batteries.

AW


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## Lunal_Tic (Sep 9, 2007)

AW said:


> LT,
> 
> The driver has last setting memory. You can set it to turn on high and it will remember this setting until you remove the batteries.
> 
> AW



Cool thanks for the info.

-LT


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah that is pretty cool. Actually, DAMN K00L....everyone gets the setting they want !!!! :thumbsup:


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## Lunal_Tic (Sep 9, 2007)

It's nice to have it remember where you were last but it also means the next step from high is low.

-LT


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Lunal_Tic said:


> It's nice to have it remember where you were last but it also means the next step from high is low.
> 
> -LT



Yeah....well honestly, it is not that big of a deal to cycle to where you want it. There are just as many that prefer a cycle of Low-Med-High as there are High-Med-Low. My frustration are with those lights that don't remember when off.


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## Lunal_Tic (Sep 9, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Yeah....well honestly, it is not that big of a deal to cycle to where you want it.



A matter of perspective and use one would think.  

I'll be interested to see how the actual light output looks in both low and medium since unlike an LED less juice generally means a beam that's a lot more orange. LL do you have one of these? Could you post L/M/H shots to show the color?

-LT


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## Aircraft800 (Sep 10, 2007)

AW,

(you may have already answered this above: "Yes, regulated version Mag driver will feature soft start and multi-level, all level regulated......", but I didn't know how the settings would work, or at what levels)

Is this going to be regulated and multi-level, with user settings.

EX: If I am running 2 AW "C" Li-Ion and a WA1111
1 click, 5V Output (LOW) 83%
2 click, 6V Output (Run bulb at spec.) 100%
3 click, 7.4V Output (Overdrive Baby!!) 123%

It would be nice to run at spec. to have a nice white beam and save on battery life, but have a LOW for close up work, and then a "WOW" setting.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 10, 2007)

Lunal_Tic said:


> A matter of perspective and use one would think.
> 
> I'll be interested to see how the actual light output looks in both low and medium since unlike an LED less juice generally means a beam that's a lot more orange. LL do you have one of these? Could you post L/M/H shots to show the color?
> 
> -LT



It is similar to what Aircraft posted...as far as the color, it depends on the bulb. If you are starting out with an Overdrive setting, then medium can still look fine. Obviously with some hotwire bulbs that need the voltage/current to make them perform, it will not do well if too low. It is only available so far in C mag...so not sure if you are asking about that.


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## AW (Sep 10, 2007)

Aircraft800,

Both the regulated and the unregulated driver will run the bulb at spec. ( NOT reduced voltage/underdrive ). The regulated version will have a user specified Vout vs the unregulated version's Vin = Vout. The brightness level is controlled by the duty cycle of the PWM i.e the on/off frequency. It works by turning the light on and off in such a rate that you 'll see a smooth output from the bulb ( no strobing ). The more the off cycle and the beam will appear dimmer. A 100% duty cycle means the bulb is turned ON full time.

- 100% ( High ) = 100% PWM duty cycle
- 60% ( Med ) = 60% PWM duty cycle
- 30% ( Low ) = 30% PWM duty cycle

The voltage to the bulb in all three levels remains the same.

AW


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## petrev (Sep 10, 2007)

AW said:


> Aircraft800,
> 
> Both the regulated and the unregulated driver will run the bulb at spec. ( NOT reduced voltage/underdrive ). The regulated version will have a user specified Vout vs the unregulated version's Vin = Vout. The brightness level is controlled by the duty cycle of the PWM i.e the on/off frequency. It works by turning the light on and off in such a rate that you 'll see a smooth output from the bulb ( no strobing ). The more the off cycle and the beam will appear dimmer. A 100% duty cycle means the bulb is turned ON full time.
> 
> ...


 
Hi All

Hopefully to clarify this a bit more ? ? ?

PWM is Pulse Width Modulation (produces a square wave)

The unregulated softstarter with 3 levels works as stated and while the Voltage, as seen say at the bulb on an oscilloscope, would have the same peak value at all 3 settings the RMS (Root Mean Square) Voltage at the bulb will vary so that it will appear as bright and white (or not) as it would if that real voltage were applied too it. PWM switches the voltage on and off very quickly, and if it were on only half the time (50% duty cycle) then the effective voltage is half too.

With the regulated version - while the Vin is above the required Regulated Vout then the PWM cycle is varied automatically via a feedback loop to produce the correct Vout - as the cells lose power the duty cycle increases until it reaches 100% and then Vout will equal Vin and output will start to fall below regulated value.

This is only a rough guide (idealised and approximated) and may not be quoted as gospel, etc. . . but may be helpful !

Cheers Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 11, 2007)

AW & Petrev, that is VERY VERY helpful. Being the novice on more detailed electronic components, I did not take the time to understand what PWM actually means....so I assumed (wrongly) that the lower settings were lower voltage.

So now we know that this design will allow (please allow for my "beginner mind" characterization) extremely rapid on/off "pulses" of a specified V-out, giving higher pulse frequency to achieve effect of 100%, and lower pluse frequency for medium & low settings....with a net effect of fewer "light wave slices per msec," but each of the same lumen intensity. As long as the on/off frequency is faster than 30/sec it won't appear as "strobing."

If my simplistic analogy is correct, then our brains must interpret more or less light wave slices/ms as brighter or dimmer?

That may not be exactly how it works, but now this is even way cooler than I already thought it was!!! I'll have the DeLorean standing by.

Edit: Here is a link that gives some more information about PWM.

And another related to *gasp* LED's.

Ahhh, after reading last link, I now see that the duration of on and off parts of the cycle, in addition to frequency is also key to the perceived brightness of the different levels.


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## AW (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks Pete for the further clarification and Lux for the info link. I hope you all is having a better understanding of how PWM works in this incan driver. This maybe confusing how PWM works in controlling the different brightness levels and voltage regulation but the above two posts explain it well.

Here is the scope readout of the C driver running on Low and High :


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## petrev (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi

What a nice neat little scope.

Is that the Velleman HPS40 or the HPS10 ?

Hi Lux - Yes, the frequency normally doesnt change - just the on to off ratio (Duty Cycle)

Totally looking forward to the *AW-D-PWMReg-SS-1Lvl-UAdj-HQPot Drop-In Switch Assembly* 
or ? *AW-D1R SW* ?

Cheers Pete

:twothumbs


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## tomL (Sep 11, 2007)

Using PWM doesn't change the fact that a cooler hotwire results in a "warmer" color temperature (shifted towards yellow-orange-red as the filament gets cooler) when the duty cycle is reduced.

It's up to the user to decide how dim to run a given lamp. If you want a dimmer light with a whiter (colder) color, it is better to start with a lower wattage, giving up on the ability to have a lot of lumens.

This is why I favor user-selectable lamp wattages for the brightest setting. I would like to be able to install different lamps without needing to have different driver boards. This could be accomplished with micro-DIP switches, user installed jumpers, or via non-volatile memory (or even volatile memory if there is a safe default and an easy to way to re-set the setting)


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## AW (Sep 11, 2007)

tomL,

The now available C driver seems to fit your exact requirement - it can run any wattage bulb up to 100W and any battery configuration from 6V to 30V. No need to fiddle with any adjustment at all.

Regards,
AW


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## tomL (Sep 11, 2007)

AW said:


> tomL,
> 
> The now available C driver seems to fit your exact requirement - it can run any wattage bulb up to 100W and any battery configuration from 6V to 30V. No need to fiddle with any adjustment at all.
> 
> ...



Excellent!

Is it regulated?

Where can I read more about it? Specifications, datasheet, price?

Can you supply bulbs too?

Thanks, Tom


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## AW (Sep 11, 2007)

Tom,

The C driver is available Here. It has soft-start, 3 brightness level, flash mode but no voltage regulation.

Sorry, I don't carry bulbs.

Regards,
AW


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 11, 2007)

AW said:


> Tom,
> 
> The C driver is available Here. It has soft-start, 3 brightness level, flash mode but no voltage regulation.
> 
> ...



AW, after reading about the PWM, and thnking about your soft starting C driver that uses PWM, but no voltage regulation....as the batteries drain, if the light is left on a particular output level, do you see a dimming correlating with the battery sagging...and would it be more dimming if you went down a level as well? Just trying to see if I understand how PWM works in a non-regulated setup.

Also, that portable oscilloscope caught my attention, according to these images at Amazon, it looks like it is the HPS10 as the 40 model has two white keys above arrows. Pretty bad user reviews on the 10 model....but I can understand when I see some Fluke prices on cheaper models here.

Anyway, back on topic.....that would UBER-RULE to have an adjustable POT, even if a more expensive option over "set voltage" model. :rock:


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## AW (Sep 12, 2007)

LuxLuthor,

The output voltage of the unregulated version is = Vin from the battery pack. You will see dropping output as the battery voltage sags. On lower levels, the output will maintain better because the longer off cycles are less taxing on the batteries and they 'll have a chance to recover. If you are using good batteries with a flat discharge curve, you won't notice much dimming at all ( at least to the perception of 30% difference ) until they are almost drained.

The POT version is still under consideration - haven't done any testing yet.

AW


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## tomL (Sep 14, 2007)

I am drawn to the regulated driver because I would be able to select the output voltage to match the lamp, and use any battery type, within reason.

If I were to use the unregulated driver, I would have to use a battery with a flat discharge curve, then find a lamp where that battery voltage is exactly what I want.

With a user-adjustable regulated driver, I would be able to choose any lamp (within reason), then choose the voltage level depending on the color temperature, brightness, life I want, and mate that with most any battery.

I like flexibility.


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## Lunal_Tic (Sep 16, 2007)

Any chance of these happening for MagChargers?

-LT


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## Northern Lights (Sep 16, 2007)

I looked closely at adapting the C AW driver to a MC. That is very close in diameter but the height was beyond modding at home. So that body is a good one to work with to get a MC version.


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## strideredc (Sep 23, 2007)




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## LuxLuthor (Oct 5, 2007)




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## AW (Oct 6, 2007)

................


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## petrev (Oct 6, 2007)

:twothumbs . . :twothumbs

.


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## Aircraft800 (Oct 6, 2007)

See Lux,

Ask and you shall recieve!!

Awesome work AW!


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 7, 2007)

Seeing those images....I almost sprayed my mouth full of water all over my keyboard. Holy Moly....are these gonna be great!!!!!!!! 

Setscrew anchors to opposite side of switch?

:twothumbs :kiss: :twothumbs


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## AW (Oct 8, 2007)

The set screw is on the under side just like the stock Mag switch. Installation is similar to the Mag C driver - complete drop in replacement for the stock switch. Three sets of brass connectors ( 10mm/15mm/20mm ) and washers will be included so you will have an adjustable range for focusing up to 20+mm. The push button is slightly recessed so there is less chance of accidentally power up.

I 'll open a new thread and start taking orders in a couple days.

AW


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 8, 2007)

:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

One more question. Are these going to include the regulated Vbulb options yet?

Oh also, not to be gay...but :kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss::kiss:


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## AW (Oct 8, 2007)

Not yet. It 'll take more time to work on the regulated version....... damn codes :hairpull:


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## SunnyQueensland (Oct 8, 2007)

WOW... :thumbsup:

Have you come up with a price yet?

Regards


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## AW (Oct 9, 2007)

The price will be a few dollars ( ~$5 ) more than the V2 C switch because of the added cost of the components to handle 150W ( 200W on short burst < 1 minute ).


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 9, 2007)

AW said:


> The price will be a few dollars ( ~$5 ) more than the V2 C switch because of the added cost of the components to handle 150W ( 200W on short burst < 1 minute ).



I gotta wait on the regulated ones.


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## Lunal_Tic (Oct 9, 2007)

Would there be any advantage/disadvantage to having the regulated version when running 3xAW C li-ions with a WA1185? Besides the flatter runtime with the regulated version and the sudden drop in output when you reach the end of usable power is there anything else?

-LT


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## AW (Oct 9, 2007)

The regulated version provides a constant output for the entire battery life and runs a little bit longer. The pre-set output voltage you choose is firmware encoded and cannot be changed, meaning you can only use it on specific bulbs with the set voltage. The unregulated version works with a wide voltage range ( 6V - 30V ) and you can use different bulbs with different battery configurations you choose anytime. However, output brightness will sag along with battery voltage drop during use. A good remedy is to use batteries with a flat discharge curve such as LiIon, LiFePO4 ( A123 , Saphions ).





Lunal_Tic said:


> Would there be any advantage/disadvantage to having the regulated version when running 3xAW C li-ions with a WA1185? Besides the flatter runtime with the regulated version and the sudden drop in output when you reach the end of usable power is there anything else?
> 
> -LT


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 9, 2007)

One other advantage once you know the optimal regulated voltage to be delivered to a particular bulb, it will prevent the bulb from flashing (dead) because your batteries were overcharged to a higher voltage hot off the charger.


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## Pyros (Oct 9, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> One other advantage once you know the optimal regulated voltage to be delivered to a particular bulb, it will prevent the bulb from flashing (dead) because your batteries were overcharged to a higher voltage hot off the charger.


 
Very excited about this! Is there any limit on the size of the differential between vBatt and vBulb? For example, could one of Lux's 2D 15.6V battery packs be stepped down to 7.1 (or whatever is optimal for a 5761; there seems to be some discussion on this point) -- thereby optimizing runtime?


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## Lunal_Tic (Oct 9, 2007)

AW said:


> The regulated version provides a constant output for the entire battery life and runs a little bit longer. The pre-set output voltage you choose is firmware encoded and cannot be changed, meaning you can only use it on specific bulbs with the set voltage. The unregulated version works with a wide voltage range ( 6V - 30V ) and you can use different bulbs with different battery configurations you choose anytime. However, output brightness will sag along with battery voltage drop during use. A good remedy is to use batteries with a flat discharge curve such as LiIon, LiFePO4 ( A123 , Saphions ).



So in the example above, 3x C li-ions + WA1185, there wouldn't really be that much of an advantage or would it be easier on the batteries; i.e. less chance of over discharging?




LuxLuthor said:


> One other advantage once you know the optimal regulated voltage to be delivered to a particular bulb, it will prevent the bulb from flashing (dead) because your batteries were overcharged to a higher voltage hot off the charger.




Wouldn't that already be taken care of by the soft start?

-LT


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## Northern Lights (Oct 10, 2007)

Pyros said:


> Very excited about this! Is there any limit on the size of the differential between vBatt and vBulb? For example, could one of Lux's 2D 15.6V battery packs be stepped down to 7.1 (or whatever is optimal for a 5761; there seems to be some discussion on this point) -- thereby optimizing runtime?


I realize the discussion is mostly threoreical, but I thought it might be helpful to throw this in and bring some of our conjectures up to date. Earlier I reported that it appeared that some 5761s new out of the box on soft start were flashing at 7.1Vbulb. Jim Jones and I have been working on some more 5761 ideas and he has accumulated some more experiences down those lines. Although those bulbs very well met the OEM specifications of the manufacturer, they do not always work in over drive. Many individual 5761 have worked well at 7.1Vbulb and some above but just yesterday Jim ran into a few that on soft start and experimental control on the bench were flashing 7.1Vbulb or below. I had similiar experiences with one shipment of 5761. 6.9Vbulb may be the high percentage winner for the 5761.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 10, 2007)

Pyros said:


> Very excited about this! Is there any limit on the size of the differential between vBatt and vBulb? For example, could one of Lux's 2D 15.6V battery packs be stepped down to 7.1 (or whatever is optimal for a 5761; there seems to be some discussion on this point) -- thereby optimizing runtime?


I am assuming because AW is not using the more delicate FET to regulate the power, that your example would be valid. 

 Let's magnify the example, and ask AW if he knows:

AW, let's say you want to put in a *24V battery pack*, and have it stepped down to power a *Philips 5761 with regulator set at 7.0 Vbulb*. Would it hold up? 



Lunal_Tic said:


> So in the example above, 3x C li-ions + WA1185, there wouldn't really be that much of an advantage or would it be easier on the batteries; i.e. less chance of over discharging?


All batteries have some sagging once you get to the end of the rated performance, but the Lithium cells have a flatter discharge curve than NiMH. The older Li-Ion cells (vs. new LiFePO4) do not have higher current outputs that some bulbs need, but if you match the total Vbattery with the ideal Vbulb as in your 3 x C Li-Ion & 1185 example that should be relatively good.

The 1185 bulb wants to have 10.8V delivered to it for optimal (1200+ bulb lumen) output. 3 freshly charged Li-Ions will start with 4.1V x 3 = 12.3V which if not reduced by the resistance of the parts in the flashlight, will kill (instaflash) the bulb. Then as the batteries drain, they will go below that needed 10.8V which is demonstrated with this run time graph from AW. The 1185 uses about 3.3 Amps, so look at the red line.










Lunal_Tic said:


> LuxLuthor said:
> 
> 
> > One other advantage once you know the optimal regulated voltage to be delivered to a particular bulb, it will prevent the bulb from flashing (dead) because your batteries were overcharged to a higher voltage hot off the charger.
> ...



No. The "soft start" blunts the initial millisecond spike of higher voltage that is required to initially heat up a cold bulb filament. Once it heats up (and starts glowing), there is less voltage required to keep the current flowing. 

If in the example above with the 1185 is used, even if there is a soft start feature to blunt the initial spike, the bulb can still instaflash if 12V is being delivered to the bulb for less than a second.

The reason you may not have seen this happen in one of your existing setups is that there is enough resistance in the tailcap spring, stock switch, stock bulb holder, etc., that you just don't have all 12.3V delivered to the bulb.

.


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## AW (Oct 10, 2007)

I haven't built a working model to test this value yet but it 'll work on theory - with a max. input voltage of 30V ( unloaded pack V ) down to 6V. However, I have to point out that with this setup which I assume you are using 12 pcs NiMH AA cells. You 'll over discharge all of your cells without you even noticing while the light is still running in regulation. The low voltage warning will set in only when the light falls out of regulation so if I set the warning value to be 6.9V in this 5761 setup, you 'll see the warning when you have discharged you NiMH cells to 0.575V !!! When deciding a battery configuration, you 'll have to take this into consideration. I would say a 7 -8 cell pack for the 5761. I have answered the same question in post #33 as well.




> AW, let's say you want to put in a *24V battery pack*, and have it stepped down to power a *Philips 5761 with regulator set at 7.0 Vbulb*. Would it hold up?


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 10, 2007)

AW said:


> I haven't built a working model to test this value yet but it 'll work on theory - with a max. input voltage of 30V ( unloaded pack V ) down to 6V. However, I have to point out that with this setup which I assume you are using 12 pcs NiMH AA cells. You 'll over discharge all of your cells without you even noticing while the light is still running in regulation. The low voltage warning will set in only when the light falls out of regulation so if I set the warning value to be 6.9V in this 5761 setup, you 'll see the warning when you have discharged you NiMH cells to 0.575V !!! When deciding a battery configuration, you 'll have to take this into consideration. I would say a 7 -8 cell pack for the 5761. I have answered the same question in post #33 as well.



Yes, I understand that separate issue. 

I was more trying to get at the nice hardware design - higher tolerance features which could be illustrated with the extreme Vbatt vs. Vbulb in my *preposterous *24V battery in 5761 bulb example. 

My point (for others) is what I asked you about earlier where your design is not using the FET to absorb the brunt of the power like another HotDriver design we know about.


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## AW (Oct 10, 2007)

No, my regulation model does not use the FET to dissipate power. The regulated Vout is PWM controlled ( with a higher efficiency ) as well.




> My point (for others) is what I asked you about earlier where your design is not using the FET to absorb the brunt of the power like another HotDriver design we know about.


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## Lunal_Tic (Oct 10, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> The "soft start" blunts the initial millisecond spike of higher voltage that is required to initially heat up a cold bulb filament. Once it heats up (and starts glowing), there is less voltage required to keep the current flowing.
> 
> If in the example above with the 1185 is used, even if there is a soft start feature to blunt the initial spike, the bulb can still instaflash if 12V is being delivered to the bulb for less than a second.
> 
> The reason you may not have seen this happen in one of your existing setups is that there is enough resistance in the tailcap spring, stock switch, stock bulb holder, etc., that you just don't have all 12.3V delivered to the bulb.



I knew about the battery sag under load and figured that was what was "saving" my bulbs. I've never used the C cells though and so had no idea about sag relative to load. Thanks for the graph and info. Guess I'll hold off on an 1185 3xC version until the regulated one comes out then ask for the 10.8V setting as you mention. I guess there shouldn't be too much trouble bleeding off the extra juice.

Cheers,
-LT


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## petrev (Oct 10, 2007)

Hi Lunal_Tic,

Unlike the other regulator type (LDO-Hotdrivers) the PWM Regulator design doesn't "burn off" excess battery power. The FET doesn't get hot from acting as a variable resistor, it is used to switch the flow on and off very rapidly. 

If protected cells are used then the supply can exceed the required Vbulb by a large margin (within parameters of the circuit Vmax) to give longer regulated runtime using the cell protection to prevent excessively low cell voltages. 

Packs can be designed with any runtime/size desired and the SS-Regulator will deal with providing the correct Voltage to the bulb.

Pete

.


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## Pyros (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks for the info, guys. So, doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations, it looks like one could run a 64430 (or its apparent successor, the 56580) on 11 NiMH cells with Vbulb set at 9.9V, and the light would drop out of regulation when each of the cells had been discharged to 0.9V. (Presumably actual Vbatt per cell would be slightly higher, since the driver's low voltage warning is based on Vbulb? Or am I wrong about that?) Similarly, one could run a 64625 on 14 NiMH cells with Vbulb set at 12.6V -- again, the light would drop out of regulation when each of the cells reached 0.9V.

I don't have any experience with protected Lion cells, but I am intrigued by Petrev's point that one could use up to a 30V pack (AW's stated max input voltage) and drive basically anything -- including a low-voltage bulb like the 5761 -- and rely on the batteries' protection circuits to cut the juice before overdischarge (rather than watching for the driver's low voltage warning). Creating such a large differential between Vbatt and Vbulb makes sense with a PWM driver, because excess voltage won't be wasted as heat. If that's all true, does anyone know what Lion battery configuration would provide the maximum amount of juice (and by that I mean runtime) to a 5761 in a 2D host?


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## petrev (Oct 10, 2007)

*Caution :*

Need to check with AW but 30V is probably an absolute maximum so may need to use 4.2V as cell voltage to avoid problems with Hot-off-the-charger cells !

As the 5761 runs at about 7V the highest 2D charge density would probably be 2x DLion 7500mAh if they ever become available. 

Physical space in a 2D means that for 7V a 5000mAh D is still better than any other multiple that I can think of that fits. AW D-regulator would warn correctly for unprotected cells.

With higher voltage bulbs in larger hosts the possibilities become more numerous . . .
:thinking:

Cheers
Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 10, 2007)

petrev said:


> *Caution :*
> 
> Need to check with AW but 30V is probably an absolute maximum so may need to use 4.2V as cell voltage to avoid problems with Hot-off-the-charger cells !
> 
> ...



Pete, in your reference to using the 4.2V hot....did you mean if you had a scenario where you had 8s Li-Ions (8x4.2=33.6V) which would put you over the 30V cutoff....and similar with 21 NiMH cells (which I am using in my Hyperblaster)....where hot they may be over 30V?

I have a harder time imagining being able to use 8s Li-Ions (including Saphion/Emoli) in terms of their size and PTC limit in the case of AW's protected Li-Ion....but maybe you meant something else. :thinking:

If Plasmaman's 7500mAh D doesn't work, then wouldn't 2s3p 17500 would be higher capacity (2200mAh x 3) than the 5000mAh D cell, (_but the PTC is close to being tripped at the 5.5A the 5761 wants)_?

*AW, when you said in post #33 that "the low battery warning will be set at a few percentage point below when the driver runs out of regulation" is that also a setting we could specify when ordering? (i.e. Vbulb set for 7.0 and low warning set at 6.8V) ?*


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## petrev (Oct 10, 2007)

Hi Lux,



LuxLuthor said:


> Pete, in your reference to using the 4.2V hot....did you mean if you had a scenario where you had 8s Li-Ions (8x4.2=33.6V) which would put you over the 30V cutoff....and similar with 21 NiMH cells (which I am using in my Hyperblaster)....where hot they may be over 30V?


 
That is the question that AW will no doubt clarify soon - some components may see the resting voltage, before there is any significant current draw and voltage sag. 
This voltage may be the limiting factor that could kill a component.



LuxLuthor said:


> I have a harder time imagining being able to use 8s Li-Ions (including Saphion/Emoli) in terms of their size and PTC limit in the case of AW's protected Li-Ion....but maybe you meant something else. :thinking:


 
That's what I meant - 7 Lion may be the series limit. If one were using say 4,5,6 or 7 series CLions to drive an 1185 you would get huge runtime and never get near the protection limit. Somebody may want to use 8 series cells for some reason ? and this may not be possible.
I personally intend to try a 6s E-Moli 64458 (6D+74) and agree that a 7s E-Moli may be a bit unwieldy but that doesn't mean someone won't make it - or even wish for an 8 - Stranger beasts have been made !



LuxLuthor said:


> If Plasmaman's 7500mAh D doesn't work, then wouldn't 2s3p 17500 would be higher capacity (2200mAh x 3) than the 5000mAh D cell, (_but the PTC is close to being tripped at the 5.5A the 5761 wants)_?


 
Easier to think of 3p2s configuration - 1100mAh 17500s
This equates to 3300mAh battery - 2 in series.

Another way to look at it is to work out total "pack" capacity

7500D-Cells => 3.6x7500x2 = 54000 (54WHr)
5000D-Cells => 3.6x5000x2 = 36000 (36WHr)
17500-Cells => 3.6x1100x6 = 23760 (24WHr)




> *AW, when you said in post #33 that "the low battery warning will be set at a few percentage point below when the driver runs out of regulation" is that also a setting we could specify when ordering? (i.e. Vbulb set for 7.0 and low warning set at 6.8V) ?*


 
Back to AW again

Cheers
Pete


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## Pyros (Oct 10, 2007)

Okay, here's where I'm confused: Suppose one were to build a 5761 in a 2D host using Lions in 2s configuration (e.g., two D cells, or six 17500 cells 2s3p), with Vbulb set at 7.0V. Wouldn't the light drop out of regulation when each of the cells reached 3.5V (and the low voltage warning get triggered shortly thereafter) -- which is well short of their 3.0V maximum discharge limit? And wouldn't that compromise runtime quite a bit?

That's what led me to suggest kicking up the voltage as high as possible (e.g., by using six 17500 protected cells 6s, for 25.2V hot off the charger), and relying on the batteries' protection circuits to prevent overdischarge.

Or am I overlooking something obvious, like Lion cells in 6s configuration can't deliver the current that the bulb requires? Or perhaps the discharge curve for Lion cells is such that when they reach 3.5V they're actually very close (in terms of runtime) to being fully discharged?

:thinking:


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## Lunal_Tic (Oct 10, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi Lunal_Tic,
> 
> Unlike the other regulator type (LDO-Hotdrivers) the PWM Regulator design doesn't "burn off" excess battery power. The FET doesn't get hot from acting as a variable resistor, it is used to switch the flow on and off very rapidly.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. I think I've got a better understanding of it now. Just have to wait patiently for the C-reg to come out before I build out that 1185 rig, patiently yeah right. 

-LT


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 10, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi Lux,
> 
> Easier to think of 3p2s configuration - 1100mAh 17500s
> This equates to 3300mAh battery - 2 in series.
> ...



Pete, sorry for confusing things. I meant *3x17670 *which are *1600mAh*, but I picked up one of my 18650 which was where I got the 2200mAh from that label (and which won't fit in a tri-bored D Mag)....so the 3x17670 at 4800mAh are close to the 5000mAh D cell.

I still think of these configurations as 2s3p, but there is no real confusion as long as we mind our "P" and "S" numbers. I consider either 2s3p or 3p2s as correct. :grouphug:


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 10, 2007)

Pyros said:


> Okay, here's where I'm confused: Suppose one were to build a 5761 in a 2D host using Lions in 2s configuration (e.g., two D cells, or six 17500 cells 2s3p), with Vbulb set at 7.0V. Wouldn't the light drop out of regulation when each of the cells reached 3.5V (and the low voltage warning get triggered shortly thereafter) -- which is well short of their 3.0V maximum discharge limit? And wouldn't that compromise runtime quite a bit?
> 
> That's what led me to suggest kicking up the voltage as high as possible (e.g., by using six 17500 protected cells 6s, for 25.2V hot off the charger), and relying on the batteries' protection circuits to prevent overdischarge.
> 
> ...



Well, you are close to having the right idea, but in general you do not want to go below 3.5V with a Li-Ions. By the time you have gotten down to 3.0V you have likely damaged the cells to some degree...and to a large degree if you go below 3.0 (hence the PTC discharge limit).

But let's look at a couple real examples so everyone understands this low cell voltage AW caution first stated in his post #33.

Let's say you have 6 Li-Ions powering a 5761 bulb that AW's D Driver is set to deliver 7V to the bulb. That means that each cell will be providing 1/6th of the power.

So let's say that AW has the low battery warning set to start at about 3% below Vbulb, which would be about 6.8V.

For the 6 cells to be exhausted down to that 6.8V level, they would each only be providing 1.13V (6.8V/6 cells). Obviously the first of the six AW Protected cells that hits the PTC 3.0V limit_ (assuming you were smart enough to be doing this light with protected cells)_ would break the circuit before the D Hotdriver's low battery warning would occur....BUT.....again *the point is that it is not good for a Li-Ion cell to run down to 3.0V, which would happen in this setting*. There has been much written about this in the battery section of the forum.

*If you had 2s Li-Ions that had sufficient current output performance (could be 2s2p or 2s3p), the drain would trigger the 6.8V low battery warning of the D Driver when both of them hit 3.4V....and this will keep the Li-Ions from being damaged at the 3.0V level.

Even if you have 3s, the 6.8V low alarm would work out to 2.22V/cell....again having the cell's PTC kick in first at 3.0V, and doing some damage.
*
There would be a similar scenario with using many NiMH cells, which should not be discharged below 0.9 to 1.0Volts. Let's say you used 10s NiMH to have 12V pack. When the 6.8V limit triggered the low battery warning for these 10 NiMH cells...they would be drained down to 0.68V per cell....and you can likely say goodbye to those cells.

Finally, if you use a higher voltage bulb like the WA-1166 and tell AW to set the Vbulb at 12.3V, that would likely result in the low battery warning being set at about 11.9V (3% below Vbulb). Now if you have 3s Li-Ions, the D driver low warning would come on too soon at a per cell voltage of 3.97V (11.9V/3).

*That last example is why I was asking if we can tell AW the Vbulb we want, and the Vlow-warning we want. In the WA-1166 bulb example being powered by 3s, I would want the low alarm set to trigger at about 3.4V/cell or 10.2V rather than 11.9V.*


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## DM51 (Oct 11, 2007)

With NsNp Li-Ion set-ups, you would be relying on not only the individuals cells’ low-voltage protection, but their high current protection too. You would get a temporary surge through one or more cells – how temporary would depend on the accuracy/tolerance of the protection circuit settings. The high current protection is there principally to prevent damage from a short rather than to prevent currents that are beyond what is good for the cell. The low-voltage protection may also be tripping at a point which is lower than ideal for the cell, and there are bound to be variations in the individual circuits. 

When the first cell trips its low-voltage cut-out, current will then be drawn from its parallel neighbor(s) but at a higher rate, as demanded by the bulb and the other stacks in the pack, at the precise time when this would be undesirable from the cell’s POV. This would continue until the next cell’s low-voltage protection kicked in. If it was a 2p configuration that second trip would obviously cut all voltage from the pack, but if it was 3p there would be an even bigger current surge through the remaining cell until the high-current protection cut it off. 

This would be happening when the cells were nearly depleted and the last thing one would want to do to them would be to suddenly start draining them even harder, even if only for a brief period. 

It is placing quite a heavy reliance on the cells’ individual protection circuits, and for this reason as well as others already given above, it would probably be unwise to use a configuration where Vbatt is much higher than the Vbulb setting.


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## AW (Oct 11, 2007)

Here is something I want to clarify :


- The absolute max. input voltage is 30V ( meaning the open voltage of the unloaded pack ). Anything higher may fry the voltage regulator.

- I can probably set the low battery warning value to your request ( still working on the codes ). My original idea was to set it at some point right after the lamp falls out of regulation where you may still have some runtime left without damaging the batteries.

- Running LiIon cells to 3.0V *under load* is fine because they 'll rebound to 3.5 - 3.7V when the load is removed / cut off ( load value > 0.3C ). If you set the cut off to 3.4V per cell, you are using only 85% of the capacity. The same reason you see most battery testing devices ( including the CBA-II ) has a default cut off value of 2.8V for discharge tests. The higher the load, the cell will rebound to a higher resting voltage.


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## petrev (Oct 11, 2007)

Thanks Andrew - Exactly the clarification that people need to know.

:thumbsup:


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 11, 2007)

I was mainly concerned where because of a larger number of Li-Ion cells that some have been suggesting here....and lower Watt bulbs, that the SHARED LOAD would be very small to the Li-Ions, in which case their bounce back to 3.3V would not be as reliable.

Personally, I'm fine with my Li-Ion's draining down to 3.4V because it gives a safety margin that I prefer with these cells.


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## sb_pete (Oct 13, 2007)

Without distracting from the fascinating technical discussion which has clarified quite a bit about batteries in general and their use in series and parallel for me, I just wanted to say that I am definitely in for a regulated D driver as soon as possible. After I play around with it I'll probably be in for a couple more a month or two after the first as well.
Great work AW, thanks for this.
-Pete


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## AW (Oct 13, 2007)

Start taking order for the Mag D Incan Driver ( unregulated version ) : HERE.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 13, 2007)

AW said:


> Start taking order for the Mag D Incan Driver ( unregulated version ) : HERE.



Man are these beautiful. Really excellent workmanship. I already have some direct drive setups that these will work great with. 

Let us know when the regulated are ready.


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## Daekar (Oct 15, 2007)

The size of the regulated driver that I'm interested in will be directly influenced by the 7500mAh D cells that might be available. If they become available, I'll be in for a regulated D driver that will allow me to use 3 D lions to run a ~7V bulb, I'm not sure which one. If the D cells end up being a flop, I'll be in the market for a regulated C driver so I can use 3 or 4 C lions to drive the same ~7V bulb. Are there any plans for a regulated C driver?


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 16, 2007)

*There has never been any representation that a regulated C driver is even contemplated. I don't know why people keep bringing this up like it's realistic.*

I'll just be thrilled if a regulated D Driver is made.


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## Daekar (Oct 16, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> *There has never been any representation that a regulated C driver is even contemplated. I don't know why people keep bringing this up like it's realistic.*
> 
> I'll just be thrilled if a regulated D Driver is made.



Whoops, guess I just pressed a hot-button. Sorry Lux, didn't mean to upset you. :mecry: I try to split my time between many different sections of the forum so I might not have read threads in the incan forum which address the impossible nature of a regulated C driver. If it's undoable, it's undoable, and I will be thankful that the unregulated one is available.

I will be thrilled right along with you if the regulated D driver is made too!

Modded mags are dangerous btw - just in the process of reading parts of this thread again, visions of new lights are dancing in my head like lightning bugs. The sad thing... I've been thinking, "OK, so if I give my 2D ROP to a buddy, then I'll have an excuse to build x, y, or z." Heheh, I suppose it could be worse - I'm not contemplating selling a light I don't have yet...


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## sb_pete (Oct 19, 2007)

Just some quick thoughts.
1. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it, when you click on the driver it starts out in low and you need to go into med and then hi to get to hi. This is fine for me as long as it remembers this and stays in hi when I turn it off and turn it back on again. Is this the case?
If it resets back to low when turned off then I think it would be far better to reverse the order. It's kind of cool to have a low version, but that's definately not what I'm making a hotwired mag for, you know?:naughty:

2. I see that the unregulated one also does not have instant on. As I understand it, that means that light now operates like a reverse clicky. Is this correct?
Why is that? Is there some technical reason that the forward clicky/instant on feature of the stock mag driver can't be retained. It's not quite a deal killer for me, but it makes the driver far less useful to me.

Anyways, just some thoughts, I know that the driver can't be all things to all people and I am still chompin at the bit for those regulated D drivers, but I figured I'd ask.
-Thanks again
-Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 19, 2007)

Daekar, no hot buttons involved. I simply keep reading people talking about a regulated C driver from AW, but he has never said a word about it, and just trying to remove unrealistic expectations.

Pete, the sales thread of AW's 4-D does specify the last setting memory:
* - Last brightness setting memory ( default level - 30% )
*​However, the "momentary on" with standard mag switch is not a feature of the AW 4-D. While I agree that is a nice Maglite feature, it would not work well with a multi-level light that is using a complete button depression as a signal. In particular, when off and you then press and hold button down, it goes into flashing mode. This type of multi-function from the one switch requires a distinct on/off signal....similar to the keys on your keyboard. 

If you take the Mag switch apart and look at how they are accomplishing the momentary on feature, it is pretty flimsy, and highly prone to electrical arcs and sticking as you use it with higher voltage setups, which it was not designed for. They have a metal donut sliding forward to bridge two thin metal contact points, then sliding back away. As the gap shortens, it fosters a sparking arc between the contacts and donut. 

Everything is a tradeoff, but personally the benefit of the low/med/high with no loss of color is a worthy exchange.


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## Northern Lights (Oct 20, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Man are these beautiful. Really excellent workmanship. I already have some direct drive setups that these will work great with.
> 
> Let us know when the regulated are ready.


I am on LL's shirt tails, AW, with this. I am dreaming up some possible models, around some of the untested 6V 30-35Watt bulbs with the G6.35 pin bases. I have two types of mystery bulbs to look into besides improving the 64430 set ups. I have a 2D 64430 NiMh that keeps begging for the D driver. 
Two of my AW drivers just left home for new masters, they will love them as much as I do I am sure. 
Before I send for more drivers I need to determine my Bulb Voltages, I can regulate to some extent with one or two NTC Vbulb in the Vin=Vout driver, very promising. :thanks: 
(How did he make a new sign for the smilie? Mine just looks like this )

>>-->:goodjob:​


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## strideredc (Oct 31, 2007)

Daekar said:


> Whoops, guess I just pressed a hot-button. Sorry Lux, didn't mean to upset you. :mecry: I try to split my time between many different sections of the forum so I might not have read threads in the incan forum which address the impossible nature of a regulated C driver. If it's undoable, it's undoable, and I will be thankful that the unregulated one is available.
> 
> Daekar,
> 
> ...


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 20, 2007)




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## Dung Beetle (Nov 20, 2007)

All I want for Christmas is a regulated-preset "C" and "D" driver.


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## Hog (Nov 21, 2007)

I read this thread & have a question.
Does this mean I could have a 12 v l/a & 24v battery supply & no problem just have the regulater set to 12 volt?
Thanks..Hog


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 21, 2007)

Hog said:


> I read this thread & have a question.
> Does this mean I could have a 12 v l/a & 24v battery supply & no problem just have the regulater set to 12 volt?
> Thanks..Hog



Not exactly going to work. This exact scenario was discussed earlier in this thread.


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## daBear (Nov 25, 2007)

Any suspicion of what the regulated D Driver will cost?


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 25, 2007)

More than his soft-starting, multi-level driver.


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## AW (Nov 26, 2007)

About 10% more than the D Driver ( need couple extra parts ).




daBear said:


> Any suspicion of what the regulated D Driver will cost?


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## mansell2 (Dec 10, 2007)

Great AW. :scowl: Just Great.

Just when you start to recover from a serious addiction, you come along and present a "must have" "need". More dollars blowing out the window.

Okay I'll "need" one, no no make that 2....umm what if he sells out? I better get...

*I will definately take one as soon as the sales thread opens. *

Now I need some help configuring my new duty light. Time for a new "help me build" thread.

AW - thanks for the all the hard work!


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## Pyros (Dec 13, 2007)

*Re: AW's Going Regulated ! WOOT !*



sandbasser said:


> In the short time I've been a member of this forum I've become familiar with many of the acronyms; but, now I'm really puzzled about "WOOT". I googled it and there's an online store with that name but no acronym.
> 
> Can anybody help???


 
This just in:

*Merriam-Webster's Word of the Year 2007*​Thousands of you took part in the search for *Merriam-Webster's Word of the Year* for 2007, and the vast majority of you chose a small word that packs a pretty big punch. The word you've selected hasn't found its way into a regular Merriam-Webster dictionary yet—but its inclusion in our online _Open Dictionary_, along with the top honors it's now been awarded—might just improve its chances. This year's winning word first became popular in competitive online gaming forums as part of what is known as l33t ("leet," or "elite") speak—an esoteric computer hacker language in which numbers and symbols are put together to look like letters. Although the double "o" in the word is usually represented by double zeroes, the exclamation is also known to be an acronym for "*w*e *o*wned the *o*ther *t*eam"—again stemming from the gaming community. ​Merriam-Webster's *#1 Word of the Year for 2007* based on votes from visitors to our Web site: ​*1. w00t* (interjection)​expressing joy (it could be after a triumph, or for no reason at all); similar in use to the word "yay"​Evidence that Lux is on the bleeding edge of both incandescent and lexographical innovation.

--Pyros


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## monkeyboy (Jan 9, 2008)

Hello AW
Any word on these regulated drivers? 



I'm interested in the D version


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 19, 2008)

Just keeping this alive


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## pertinax (Mar 28, 2008)

Bump....

Still itching to send you money, AW.


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## 299792458m/s (Mar 28, 2008)

I *will* pick one up if he opens up a sales thread--just so you know.


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## kongfuchicken (Mar 28, 2008)

About time! 
CPF's been moaning and whining for those since as long as I can remember!
Thank you so much, AW!


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## Patriot (Mar 29, 2008)

I'm also eager as I have a build hinging on it's availability.


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## Nos (Mar 29, 2008)

i want one.... at least :huh:


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## daBear (Mar 30, 2008)

It's been a while, how about a progress update AW?


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## TKO (Mar 30, 2008)

I have an uncanny knack for buying things right before the new latest and greatest comes along to make my purchase obsolete. Seeing that I just purchased one of AW's Incan Soft Start switches last night, I would say that the regulated model is probably right around the corner.


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## Aircraft800 (Apr 23, 2008)

Did you give up on this quest? Any updates?


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## scaredofthedark (Apr 23, 2008)

im a newbie with modding my ownlights, can someone explain for me what this is for?

is it to be used with a Dcell [email protected]? with those hotwire bulbs? how does this work? 
i been wanting a hotwire but i want it to be regulated so is this what im looking for?


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## daBear (Apr 23, 2008)

The ones AW presently sells are not regulated but provide a soft start at 30% on the first click up to 100% on the third click. They work GREAT and I have one in a Mag85 which is one of my favorite lights. 

The model he is working on is regulated to a specific voltage output which will also be fantastic. However, I have not heard any updates on the progress of the regulated model in a while. How about it AW??


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 23, 2008)

AW mentioned to me that he is still working on the controlling codes for the regulator. Testing/debugging will follow. He feels it may be ready in a couple more months. 

Cheers,
Gary


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## daBear (Apr 23, 2008)

Gunnerboy said:


> AW mentioned to me that he is still working on the controlling codes for the regulator. Testing/debugging will follow. He feels it may be ready in a couple more months.
> 
> Cheers,
> Gary


 
He was working on the controlling codes months ago. What is the status now, several months later??


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 24, 2008)

daBear said:


> He was working on the controlling codes months ago. What is the status now, several months later??



True. He's working on other projects as well, and the regulator would require a lot of his time. Just keep pinging him..


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## scaredofthedark (Apr 28, 2008)

can someone help me with what battery pack this regulated switch should be running on?

from what i understand when the switch gets incoming volts at lower than what is output voltage. then it cuts off

with 10.8 output volts and on 9cell NiMH packs each battery will only be at 1.2volts the batteries won't be properly drained.

or 10.8 output volts again but with 3 series 3 parallel LiIon making 11.1 volts with each cell at 3.7V, but when it's 10.8 the cells are only at 3.6 way above the cut off protection at around 3.2V won't these be under used too?


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## daBear (Apr 29, 2008)

scaredofthedark said:


> can someone help me with what battery pack this regulated switch should be running on?
> 
> from what i understand when the switch gets incoming volts at lower than what is output voltage. then it cuts off
> 
> ...


 
Nope, on this one voltage in = voltage out. No cutoff either. There were some other regulators for sale a while back that regulated the voltage to suit a particular lamp and had a cutoff voltage, but they are not for sale now. AW is supposed to be working on a regulated version, but there have been no updates from him for a looooong while.


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## Patriot (Apr 29, 2008)

This has turned into a long wait but I feel it will be worth it. Kinda revolutionary for us moders to have regulated hot-wires. I'm still excited about it.


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## pertinax (Apr 30, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> This has turned into a long wait but I feel it will be worth it. Kinda revolutionary for us moders to have regulated hot-wires. I'm still excited about it.



The PIR-1 was awesome, but easily damaged. Assuming it's up to AW's usual standards, yeah, it'll be worth the wait.

Consider a 4D Mag quad-bored with 16 Eneloops. That's 38.4 Watt hours, so about an hour for a WA-1185. And it'll never self-discharge, so no need to constantly top it off. It'll also run a WA1331 for nearly 2 hours.

If you want longer run time, you could use Sanyo 2500 batteries, and get 25% more. Run serial/parallel to make sure the current isn't stressing the batteries, and use a lower voltage bulb, like a 1274. Or whatever. The 1274, ROP, 1111, or 1166 will all give you 2 hours of run-time. The ROP-low will give you 4+.

Same logic applies to 3D, 2D, etc. And for Lithiums, but so far I've avoided those. Still, when AW gets some protected D's, well, that'll increase the above run-times by at least 50% (over the Sanyo's-- even more over the Eneloops).

The regulated option has forced me to think about what I really need for my regularly used lights. How much wattage? Do I need Eneloops? But the real game is "How much energy can I pack into a XX package, to maximize run-time?", because regulation really simplifies things.

Pertinax


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## pertinax (Jun 2, 2008)

BTT.

Fivemega's new 4AA-D adapters look great. Now I just need the darned regulator.


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## KeyGrip (Jun 2, 2008)

I can't wait for this either. A nice little 2C Mag with regulated output and A123 or Emoli cells would be ideal.


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## Raoul_Duke (Jun 2, 2008)

KeyGrip said:


> I can't wait for this either. A nice little 2C Mag with regulated output and A123 or Emoli cells would be ideal.



Hate to burst you bubble dude, but you will struggle to get any of that lot in a 2C.

The Regalated switch is planned for a "D" mag only. ( much to my dissapiontment also)  :mecry:

(I have 3 x 7C's, and 4 x 6C's now with Emoli 26700 cells, that would suit a "C" mag reglated driver, and all of the smaller c's also.)

Also I dont think you will fit 2 emoli or 2 A123 in a 2C,.....3C yes.


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## KeyGrip (Jun 2, 2008)

Raoul_Duke said:


> Hate to burst you bubble dude, but you will struggle to get any of that lot in a 2C.



No worries. After I posted that I realized that I'd be better off building a light out of the BigLeef system in the first place rather than buying a stock Mag. I like the increased upgrade possibility.


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## Patriot (Jun 5, 2008)

TKO said:


> I have an uncanny knack for buying things right before the new latest and greatest comes along to make my purchase obsolete. Seeing that I just purchased one of AW's Incan Soft Start switches last night, I would say that the regulated model is probably right around the corner.






Maybe you could buy another Incan Soft Start TKO. Your first purchase didn't cause the new regulated switch to be available yet. :shrug:

Any updates AW?


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## missionaryman (Jun 7, 2008)

this is exactly what I've been waiting for, the hotdriver was too fiddly and there were still plastic mag parts (in the switch and the body of the switch itself) that melt with serious lumens but with this you're set.

Mine will be a 2D with one of Lux's 9 cell 10.8v packs running a 1164/64430 combo (1000/2000 Lumens).
A 2D with that kind of fire-power in a refined regulated reliable package.
This is where technology needs to be at.

Great work AW, I know anything you make is worth waiting for, I'm in no hurry to rush you take your time and get it to your standard I'll be happy to wait.


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## pertinax (Jun 30, 2008)

AW'd better hurry-- Gene Malkoff is working on an LED P7 drop-in that takes up to 28V input. Sooooo.... how about 700 regulated lumens for hours, transferable to the Mag host of your choice? 

Like 2.4 hours with 12 Eneloop AAs? Far better with lithiums. And there may be no need to rebuild the switch. 

The hotwire regulator market (for a practical light I mean, not stunt lights), may be about to shrink dramatically.


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## AW (Jul 1, 2008)

' Shrink ' is actually the magic word here. This project is not dead yet but most of my working hours have been consumed by other things with higher priority. As you may know, incan and LED are different animals. I would prefer my LED lights as small as possible. In fact, I built myself a P7 D26 single R123 pocket light and it is now my EDC. It has the benefit of a flood type beam with long runtime on low ( 10 hrs ) and 100 + lumen ( 40 min. ) on med and full blast running 2.78A on high ( ~12 min. ). All this in a package that fits in my pocket. If I want something with a bit more throw, I 'll grab the single 18650 light. I would also love to see if I can *shrink* the size of some popular high power incan lights ......something say a M3T running a WA1185 with 800 lumens coming out front ( ~10 min ) or a 6P with a 200 lumen P91 ( 20+ min ) - *Done already!* If I want something more powerful or runs longer, I would grab my PH50 instead. The power source that will drive the above mini blasters will be available :naughty: BTW, the little sucker will also safely power the new ARC6 to level 7 ( ~ 4A ) without any problem - the only battery in this size format can do - available from me soon :nana:


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## scaredofthedark (Jul 1, 2008)

so you're saying you have a regulated incan light in the works?


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## adamlau (Jul 1, 2008)

As "not dead yet" can be construed as either/or, I would prefer to interpret the statement as "not dead". Just picked up an Elephant II, hopefully we will see a regulated incandescent driver sooner rather than later  .


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 1, 2008)

"Not dead yet," was not a particularly inspiring status update, and likely is a harbinger to soften the disappointment. :mecry:


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## AW (Jul 1, 2008)

It just meant I have less time working on it.


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## Bimmerboy (Jul 1, 2008)

AW said:


> The power source that will drive the above mini blasters will be available :naughty: BTW, the little sucker will also safely power the new ARC6 to level 7 ( ~ 4A ) without any problem - the only battery in this size format can do - available from me soon :nana:



THAT is going to be a killer development!

A _full power_ mini-P7?! 6P w/ P91?! Bring it on, AW! :rock:


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 2, 2008)

AW said:


> It just meant I have less time working on it.



You made my day, as it sounds like this may still happen when you have time. I don't think you realize how many people will order these...especially given the high quality workmanship of your multi-level D & C drivers you made. I'm sure I would order at least 10 in various voltage settings.


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## pertinax (Jul 10, 2008)

Yep, I'm in for two pre-ordered. One at 10.8V, and one at around 13V.

As time goes on, I'd probably order several more too, as they make hotwires far more practical for the masses.

But LEDs are catching up, even though their color rendition still stinks.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 11, 2008)

pertinax said:


> But LEDs are catching up, even though their color rendition still stinks.


They have a long way to go, IMHO. Color is one issue, throw (unless aspheric lens is used) is lousy, and with their flood setups, you have to look at the effect of airborn dust, smoke, humidity blocking your view. Then voltage/current & heat issues are significant in multi-emitter LED setups which people use as the LED vanguard. 

They seem to add 100% of the individual LED lumen ratings to give a total multi-emitter array output, but I believe there is a practical limitation with the small, textured reflectors that decrease the LED factory lumen rating. I have a question about what is the practical "torch" lumen effect from overlapping emitters/small reflectors on the total additive multi-emitter beam output.

This topic is about the benefits of an incan regulated switch/bulb holder, however.


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## sylathnie (Jul 28, 2008)

WTB. PST(PM).


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## lctorana (Jul 28, 2008)

AW said:


> ...I built myself a P7 D26 single R123 pocket light...
> ...and full blast running 2.78A on high ( ~12 min. ).


 
Hi AW,

Does this mean that you regard your R123 cells as safe for a 2.78A draw? Or do you have a "special" R123 cell for this use?

(I have an incandescent reason for asking)


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## AW (Jul 28, 2008)

There will be a new safe chemistry R123 for this ( 3.7V and good up to 10C discharge ). I am running my P7 D26 module on one of these prototype.




lctorana said:


> Hi AW,
> 
> Does this mean that you regard your R123 cells as safe for a 2.78A draw? Or do you have a "special" R123 cell for this use?
> 
> (I have an incandescent reason for asking)


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## lctorana (Jul 29, 2008)

AW said:


> There will be a new safe chemistry R123 for this ( 3.7V and good up to 10C discharge ). I am running my P7 D26 module on one of these prototype.


 
AW,

That is an exciting development indeed. Running a P7, or, more interestingly, an EO-E1R off 1 cell.

LL,
Thread-jack over. Back to regulated incan discussion now.


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## RCantor (Dec 5, 2011)

OK, so it's more than 3 years later. Google searches aren't always your friend.  What ever happened to this?


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## pertinax (Jan 12, 2012)

Gone the way of "W00T", I expect. 

LEDs have basically caught up. There's little that a Mag85 can do that a P60 dropin (from OverReady) cannot. And I'll put the ThruNite Catapult (NW) up for throw against any Mag build.

In the words of the Gunslinger-- the world has moved on.


Pertinax


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## fivemega (Jan 12, 2012)




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## LuxLuthor (Jan 13, 2012)

fivemega said:


>



That was my first reaction too. We have to forgive them...they think they know, but they don't even know what they don't know.


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## nighttrails (Jan 13, 2012)

pertinax said:


> Gone the way of "W00T", I expect.
> 
> LEDs have basically caught up. There's little that a Mag85 can do that a P60 dropin (from OverReady) cannot. And I'll put the ThruNite Catapult (NW) up for throw against any Mag build.
> 
> ...



My world in the last few years moved on and up to AW incan drivers, FiveMega products, and knowhow gleaned from Lux! Thank you guys! The only LED I use, due to size, is myEDC. My serious work world is still incan for abilities as yet unmatched by LED

Apparently AW never went regulated. Others have, in very limited quantities.


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