# DIY red laser info !



## SenKat (May 8, 2007)

Hey - for those of you into doing the modding for the red lasers, Aixiz is on ebay now, selling the housings for $2.00 each ! That is AWESOME ! They are like the Dr-Lava group buy housings - with the little metal turny thing (highly technical term) on the front for easy focusing !

Here's the item number in case anyone wants them : 110100968954

I thought it was a sweeeet deal !


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## Hemlock Mike (May 8, 2007)

SK --

Is that a glass lens ??

Mike


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## SenKat (May 8, 2007)

No  Still plastic


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## Kenom (May 9, 2007)

I've emailed him a few times trying to find out how much he would charge for just the module no diode and with glass optics and he's not returned any of my emails.  I'm hopin to find a unit that doesn't need to be focussed and uses more than one lens. but alas I fear that it's a hopeless cause. Still, Not a bad price for the modules on ebay. Is that the buy it now option?


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## SenKat (May 9, 2007)

Yup - sure is ! at $2.00 a pop, it was too hard for me to resist - so I bought a couple of the lots....now I jsut gotta find more diodes to slap in there !


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## Kenom (May 9, 2007)

Have ya looked at my parts? Big mess that it is!!! I would like those back if ya can't get anything to work although now that I've delved into making my own laser I have no doubt whatsoever that you will suceed resoundingly. Can't believe I was gonna toss that stuff.


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## Ashton (May 9, 2007)

How high a mw will a palstic lens handle? 50? 100? 300? 500?

I'd love to find a nice 300mw red diode to slap in one of those heh (hell 500mw would be a dream com true! lol)


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## Daedal (May 9, 2007)

I would like to know as well... trying to find a shell for 2 IR diodes ~500mW and 1 red diode.

Thanx;
DDL


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## Daedal (May 9, 2007)

Oh, this would be better than anything else for the PS3 diode!! 

Off to eBay I am then...

Thanx;
DDL


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## chuck (May 9, 2007)

Anyone want to go in on a group purchase? I only need 1 or 2, myself...

-- Chuck Knight


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## liveforphysics (May 9, 2007)

Those who wana use this for the PS3 diodes should be aware that most plastic lens flourece a large deal of 405nm light. The light they flourece is no longer coherent.

Swapping from plastic with the PS3 diode made the laser go from a uselessly dim toy into a functionally bright pointing tool.


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## Kenom (May 9, 2007)

Very good to know.


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## Corona (May 9, 2007)

Yeah that explains the large spray of non-coherent violet light around the beam on the one I just made using the $4 Aixiz module (I just pulled the 650nm stuff out and used the housings). Not bad, but not so great either.

Any possibility of using the lens from the PS3 deck in a violet collimator? I assume that's plastic though probably a specialty mix. Probably not aspheric and maybe no good as a collimator since in the laser deck, a sharp spot is what's wanted, not a low divergence beam...

I'll have to play with that myself, if no one has tried it


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## SenKat (May 9, 2007)

You can get the glass lenses from Aixiz with a lot of emails.....I will see if I can get a shlew (new word) of them, and provide them for purchase or what-not....


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## Bimmerboy (May 9, 2007)

SenKat said:


> You can get the glass lenses from Aixiz with a lot of emails.....I will see if I can get a shlew (new word) of them, and provide them for purchase or what-not....



That would be awesome! Great to know about the $2 modules as well.

Could you try to wrestle all the specs for both the glass, _and_ plastic lenses out of them? That way, one could make a more informed decision as to what type of lens to get for different purposes.

For example, a glass lens may have a wider beam diameter, but better collimation, whereas plastic may tend toward a smaller diameter, but possibly give better beam intensity for astronomy pointing use.

Ashton - FWIW, a decent quality plastic lens seems to work well for many people, up to 250mW. One guy even told me he uses acrylic up to several watts using the "right" lens (whatever that means)! But definitely research the issue more instead of taking my word for it. I still need more learning as well.


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## Aseras (May 9, 2007)

sound like another group buy


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## SenKat (May 9, 2007)

You betcha - got a preliminary reply - "Chuck" has referred me to Xia for processing....I will let everyone know ASAP when I find out !


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## robk (May 9, 2007)

It would be real nice to get a metal casing with multiple coated glass lenses to collimate the beam. Having to focus the lens on the Aixiz housing is a pain! But, I'm probably dreaming... it would cost too much. I took a look at Meredith Instruments housings, all seem to be single element lenses too. 

Rob


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## SenKat (May 9, 2007)

Yeah - and VERY expensive !


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## chuck (May 9, 2007)

Why would you need multi-element lenses? As I understand it, aspheric multi-element designs usually exist to compensate for chromatic aberrations. With a single frequency, a simple lens should be just as efficient, if not even more so...fewer elements and interfaces to absorb the power.

-- Chuck Knight


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## SenKat (May 10, 2007)

Really ? It was always my understanding that you had to expand the beam, then focus it down to acheive collimation - I am by no means an optics wiz-bang, but that has always been my way of thinking. Expecially since the beam specs are so horrid to begin with on the reds...Please correct me if I am wrong (wouldn;t be the first time !)


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## Ashton (May 10, 2007)

Bimmerboy said:


> Ashton - FWIW, a decent quality plastic lens seems to work well for many people, up to 250mW. One guy even told me he uses acrylic up to several watts using the "right" lens (whatever that means)! But definitely research the issue more instead of taking my word for it. I still need more learning as well.


 
Thank you, bimmer, I suspected it was somewhere in that range. I'm gonna be looking for glass for my future housings then (though the same guy sells them in glass for a few mbucks more IIRC)

Anyone have a good source for high-pwoered Red Diodes? by that I mean like 400-500mw (or higher! hell I dont care, I just want the pwoer low enough to use in a pwoerable, and since greenies use 1watt IR, I suspect I coudl use a red upto 1W in a pen-style pointer, right?)


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## Bimmerboy (May 10, 2007)

LOL, Senkat. I'd bet good money I know less than you!

Could it be that you and Chuck may both be right, but are talking about different things? I _sorta'_ remember reading that the best collimation does come from expanding, then focusing. And, it's also probably true the best efficiency would come from a single element.

Now, someone correct me if I'M wrong! :laughing: 

Oh, and again, Senkat... can you try to get all the specs you can for both plastic and glass?


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## SenKat (May 10, 2007)

You betcha I will ! I have not received an email reply yet - but hopefully will soon. If I recall correctly, there will be a $2.50 difference in price for glass lenses, rather than plastic. I will be interested to know if they have the same "beam shaping" aperature on the reverse side of the lense, like their plastic cousins do....dang those are annoying !


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## chuck (May 10, 2007)

SenKat -- it might be the difference between theory and reality. Spherical aberrations are problems with focus involving a lens or mirror of the wrong shape. Chromatic aberrations are problems with focus stemming from the different wavelengths of light. With a simple lens, red focuses at a different focal distance than blue.

Here's an example -- see the color fringing that comes from the differing focal lengths for the different frequencies of light?




 
Every time you go through an optical interface (air to glass to glue to another glass, etc) you lose power. Those types of lenses are usually shaped to correct for spherical aberration...and coatings and multiple elements are used only to correct the chromatic aberration.

Since LASERs are truly only a single frequency, a simple lens of the proper shape should provide "perfect" focusing ability.

Since nothing is perfect, though...there are lots of different kinds of beam optics used to clean up the beam in higher end systems, etc... I think it's that theory vs reality thing.

It's nice to find someone with whom I can discuss this stuff -- most of my friends' eyes just glaze over when I get started. 

-- Chuck Knight


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## SenKat (May 10, 2007)

So....does that make me wrong ? LOL You lost me a little bit - maybe cause it is WAY past my bedtime again !


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## chuck (May 10, 2007)

Nah...it makes us both right. Different takes on related, but not identical subjects.

I'm an optics geek...among several other kinds, too.

-- Chuck Knight


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## Kenom (May 10, 2007)

Ok so I'm going to poke my nose into this conversation and put in my uneducated take on laser light. (I really aren't educated) 
laser light is this
==================== yes?? I know only in a perfect world. it's going to have some >< somewhere.using just one optic makes it so that it's only this
<l> where it comes to a focus. but laser light isn't supposed to "focus" it's supposed to be a coherent beam. so explain to me how one optic can acheive this. Plz I really would like to understand this and I'm intelligent so can pick up quickly.


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## Kenom (May 10, 2007)

oh and I love how this thread changed from modules to optics. It's still related but I'm diggin this conversation. been questioning this for the last few days.


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## Bimmerboy (May 10, 2007)

Chuck - was just reading about that, and trying to understand it with only some success.

http://www.jmloptical.com/level2/ProductInfo/achromatic_info.aspx

Thanks for putting it in simpler terms. Man, I really should start with Optics 101 level... it'd make it easier to understand these conversations.

Oh, one more thing, Senkat... don't forget to ask about the AR coating wavelength!... LOL.

It's probably for the red range though.


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## robk (May 10, 2007)

I was flipping through the book "Laser Cookbook" by (I think) Gordon McComb - old book, but principles still stand. The standard way of collimating a beam is to use two lenses. The book is way out in my garage, so I can't scan it right now, but I drew it real rough. I'm going to try his method in the next few days if I can find the lenses - I have some here, left over from when I was making holograms with a 2 mW HeNe laser. Anyway, here's a link to the drawing:
www.tomokadesigns.com/lens.gif

Rob


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## robk (May 10, 2007)

As promised, here's the scan from Laser Cookbook regarding collimating lenses. It's old (1988) and applies to HeNe lasers, but should be applicable to solid state lasers as well since optic and physics don't change!





Rob


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## SenKat (May 10, 2007)

Scan saved for future reference ! Thanks for that - it is incredible ! so, a double concave, and a double convex will make the collimation easy...sounds good - now, where did I put that decrepit old gun sight I had laying around here ? Ah......time to PLAY ! So, lemme see if I understand 100% - by decreasing the divergence over a great distance, the beam waist will be further out, as well as the burning power - in theory, right ?so - look at my crude asci derawing....

============><===========

At the center, is the beam waist - that is the focal point - or where the convergence and divergence meet, correct ? Or am I combining optical theory and fact into a "Senkatism" that is completely off track ? Thanks in advance - I rarely have easy questions, Rob - you know that ! LOL


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## Kenom (May 10, 2007)

Now you do understand that this spreads the beam out to a larger diameter in the beginning. HeNe laser is going to be colimated down to a smaller beam. However it will converge quicker and diverge bigger over longer distances. With the use of the scope you can acheive longer distances before it starts to converge to a point and diverge but the beam will be twice the size as it was originally (or more)


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## SenKat (May 10, 2007)

I guess that would depend on the distance form the source, would it not ? And take into account the original beam diameter prior to your collimation attempts. I could be WAY off base - someone correct me if I am, please ?


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## Kenom (May 10, 2007)

In the picture above you assume that there are optics prior to the light leaving the laser as it's not laser light until it's colimated. This is going to make the beam fairly small. If you increase the number of optics say using a scope from a rifle it's going to increase the size of the beam to 1-10 inches depending on the focus and it's general colimation is going to be better than it was coming out of the laser. going a lot longer distance without coming to complete focus.


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## Ashton (May 10, 2007)

Is it possible to focus it completely parallel so it's the same size from now to infinity? or will it always converge and diverge nomatter what optics you use? (sorry if thats a noobish question, I'm still learning)


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## SenKat (May 10, 2007)

I think you wil aways have a point of convergence/divergence regardless of how good the optics are...


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## Daedal (May 11, 2007)

Ashton said:


> Is it possible to focus it completely parallel so it's the same size from now to infinity? or will it always converge and diverge nomatter what optics you use? (sorry if thats a noobish question, I'm still learning)



I think with 'ideal' optics, a laser should be able to achieve absolute parallelism. It's the whole idea of a laser, I thought. I'd be bummed if it was all a myth. :thinking:

--DDL


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## Kenom (May 11, 2007)

Isn't light like all things affected by gravity? after all even a black hole will suck up light.


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## Daedal (May 11, 2007)

Photons are energy. Much controversy surrounds the whole idea. I believe that they are energy and are not affected by gravity. Extreme gravitational concentrations are, of course, an exception. If the photons emitted from an LED, for example, were matter, then the LED would have to lose matter under the law of conservation of mass... Just a thought 

--DDL


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## ScarabDrowner (May 11, 2007)

light goes into a black hole because a black hole is just a change in the shape of space. the light continues to go "straight" and parallel with space, but as space becomes like a funnel at a black hole, the light will stay with it, and go into the black hole as well (IMHO). it's not so much that light is affected by gravity, it just follows along with the shape of space.


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## chad123 (May 11, 2007)

moron and should not pose just after waking upHiHi Guys, Just a couple of comments. 

d eat it too. There is no free lunch.

You can choose one of two.

1 Small beam at first and it will get bigger.
2 Big beam that will stay big longer. 

It is just the way physics dictates things. 

The laser cook book diagram is assuming you already have a collinear beam exiting from a hene. That book was written before laserhenedes were prevalent. The same still holds true for a diode source but it diverges much faster. And to complicate things a little laser diodes have a 'fast' and 'slow' axis of divergence. If you look at the raw output from a diode it will look like a line, Fat side and skinny side both diverging at different rates.


A laser is still a laser if it isn't collimated ( like a laser diode). Laser: Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. You can have this without a coherent beam, just turn on a laser diode without optics, it is still lasing. 

Light or photons are still kind of an enigma. It is duality wave, a wave that sometimes behaves like a particle. Nobody really knows... 

Chad


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## ScarabDrowner (May 11, 2007)

as far as I've been able to understand things, photons don't have mass. if they did, then they wouldn't be able to move at the speed of light. to move anything of mass at that velocity takes enormous amounts of energy, more I'm sure than is possible of coming out of an AA battery. perhaps you meant that light has a dual nature, both wave and (massless) particle?
A radiometer moves because of heating of the darkened parts of the vanes and temperature differentials. With a solar sail, however, it seems to be using a kind of "radiation pressure" which I don't fully understand yet, but I still stand behind the idea that light has no mass... but we're getting into things that, while I do think about them occasionally, I have no educational background in ^_^.


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## Ashton (May 11, 2007)

I'm kinda up in the air at this point, unable to agree or dissagree with either school of thoght because of lakc of proof. 

I would like to point out, also though, that blakc holes are not fully understood. In truth a very prevalent theory, which does have some proof, is that bakc holes are truely the entracnes to wormholes, and the exits are white holes, one of which is thought to exist in the center of our galaxy. This supports both theories on light: if it's a particle, the gravty draws it in, if it's a wave, space-time is being warped massivly in a blackhole, so the light is still technicallt travelign straight, as a wave always would. and in both cases, the light will eventually exit thoguht a white hole soemwhere else in the universe (as per the 'natural wormhole' theory).

Also, in defence of the particle theory, eignstign's theory clearly states that mass and energy are the same thing - if you move a particle fast enough it is converted to energy, hense a laser does follow the laws of conservation of energy because it is converting electricty into particles and heat; nothing lost, nothing gained.


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## SenKat (May 11, 2007)

Holy Moley ! I step away for a little bit of back surgery, and we are DEEEEEEP into physics ! Anywho - for those that want/need to know - the glass lenses for the modules in that auction will be approximately $3.50 each. So - who needs glass lenses ? If you do not want to put out $55.00 for 10 modules with glass lenses - hit me up on with your email addy - I bought 2 "sets" of those little buggers - so that will leave me with 20 modules, and most likely LOTS more than I need ! So - this would be a perfect time for someone to figure out that shipping would be like $1.00 (First class - letter type) paypal fees would be 5%, so the average cost for a module through me with glass lenses in them would be : 


Okay, I have 20 modules coming, and really only "need" like 5 of them at this time...so, figuring out shipping, etc - I paid a total of $48.00 for these guys, which is $2.40 each, shipped to my door. Add in the 5% for pay-pal fees, and $1.00 each for the modules for shipping (up to 4 - since priority is $4.05 for a pound) $3.50 for the glass lense, the total cost would be $7.25 for each module, up to 4 modules. So, if anyone wants to get in on this, I will sell a total of 15 modules - and the "lead time" before I would even receive them would be 14 days, since they are out of glass lenses at the moment. If all that is cool with you - send me a PM - AFTER replying here that you want them, so others will see how many are left. I am going to hit the sack for a few hours - and be up later to reply to your PM's with my paypal address. This price would only be good for the US - I do not have the brain power ATM to figure out overseas shipping costs :candle: Lemme know - hopefully this'll help you all out some - oh yeah, I ordered some aperature stickers, too - so everyone that orders will receive a sheet of 30 stickers with a one module minimum purchase  Night, all !


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## Aseras (May 11, 2007)

you can also do the opposite to a point... If you have a large beam you can switch the lenses around in the scan, use a convex lense so that the beam waist is narrowed, then catch that beam near or at the focal point and start the whole recollimination all over again. Most injection diode lasers must be colliminated this way. The diodes are highly divergent. 

You can also do good collimination and then use doublets and singlets to obtain a smaller beam ( basically the same thing i said above where you converge them beam and then recolliminate it )

niether is as easy as it souds, you can trial and error it, but from a design standpoint you have to determine the collection angle, the FWHM ( full width at half maximum ) to determine the cone size of the beam you are catching and then decide on the focal length and what final output beam diamter you want.( deep breath ) the output beam size's radius is the sine of the half angle of collection times the focal length. sometimes you can't get or use the focal length you want because it's too close to the diode, or the diode has a window and you have to adjust for that distance or even wave abberration based on the thickness of the window ( it's usually insignificant ). There's a lot of math involved.. and I suck at it. The only reason I took all the calculus was because I like the physics it was based on. Science is fun without the math, but alas they are intertwined.


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## Aseras (May 11, 2007)

chad123 said:


> Hi Guys, Just a couple of comments.
> 
> First of all you cannot have your cake and eat it too. There is no free lunch.
> 
> ...



each wavelength has a sweet spot for just how small you can get the beam and maintain divergance. we all know IR is a pain to colliminate and that red is very easy. A lot of it actually breaks down into just how much money you want to spend on optics and size constraints.


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## Kingjamez (May 11, 2007)

I'll take two of the glass lens modules Senkat. PM on the way.

13 left.

-Jim


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## enterrupt (May 11, 2007)

I would like 3 of the glass lenses - they will find homes on my lasers from the Dr Lava group buy.

Will pay by Wednesday 5/17 if thats ok!

Thanks,
Kevin

10 left!


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## yuip (May 11, 2007)

I am interested in 1 of the glass lens housings. 

EDIT: PM Sent.

Edit 2: If 2 modules are $14.50 with shipping, I'll be in for 2.

Thanks.


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## SenKat (May 11, 2007)

Thanks for the interest, folks - I will send PM's with my pay-pal info. I have to pay for all of this on Tuesday, the 15th, and it will be a little bit of a wait to get the "stuff" in. Since I have to come out of pocket on that date, I would ask that everyone interested in this pay by Wednesday, the 16th if that is okay with you ? That way I am not out of pocket too long  My wife would mur__r me errr...maybe I can't say that on a forum - okay, she would treat me with great disdain for what little time she would afford me on the face of this earth ! Better ? LOL...Anywho, This is gonna be great - I am looking forward to it greatly !


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## Conceptcar3 (May 11, 2007)

I'll take 2 senkat! I believe that leaves you with 7 more for sale?


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## SenKat (May 11, 2007)

Yup - 7 more to go to good homes ! 

PM's sent out to all with pay-pal info


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## Kenom (May 11, 2007)

I'll take two Senny.

Pm sent...


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## SenKat (May 11, 2007)

5 left ! Okay - 4.....Yuip decided on a second one now 


4 left !


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## Ashton (May 11, 2007)

I dont have the money or diodes right now, but count me i for a few later (maybe a month or so from now?)


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## ScarabDrowner (May 11, 2007)

shoot, and here I already have 10 modules on the way, without the glass lenses though. Any info on how to get just the glass lenses, as replacements perhaps?


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## SenKat (May 11, 2007)

If they have not shipped yet - you will be in for the same two week wait  Or, you can just email them directly, and ask for glass lenses - still the same wait, but a seperate payment would be sent, I am sure.... 
Ashton - I would love to hold on to a few for you, but I cannot be out of pocket on these for that long  I gotta pay by Tuesday, and am hoping to have most of the funds by then, sorry.


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## ScarabDrowner (May 11, 2007)

yeah, I just got an email telling me that they're out of stock of the modules, with a two-week wait for them to get their supply.


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## SenKat (May 11, 2007)

They're good for it, I promise  I like those folks there !


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## Aseras (May 11, 2007)

eh I'll take a couple too. might as well get in while the getting is good 

sending pm


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## Bimmerboy (May 11, 2007)

Two of the glass!

Didn't count yet... did I make it in? 

Edit: Just counted... I think I just made it by the hair on my chinny chin chin. Crossing fingers.


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## robk (May 11, 2007)

If anybody backs out, count me in for 2 please!
Rob


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## Ashton (May 11, 2007)

SenKat said:


> Ashton - I would love to hold on to a few for you, but I cannot be out of pocket on these for that long  I gotta pay by Tuesday, and am hoping to have most of the funds by then, sorry.


 
I dont expect for you to, I meant when another buy in made sometime later. At this instant I dont have more than $10 to spare  though hopefully in a month or so I'll have a little mroe $$$ to play with.


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## SenKat (May 11, 2007)

*Re: DIY red laser info ! **MODULES GONE*****

WHEW ! Okay - SOLD OUT !


PM's sent out to all. Thanks all for helping make this work well ! If there is enough interest, I can do more later - I gotta clear off my workbench - have "stuff" to finish, etc....don't want to overload on projects !


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## Kenom (May 13, 2007)

OOOh this means he will be getting to my lasers soon.. HEHE. Glad it worked out for ya SenKat. Hope your feeling better.


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## chuck (May 13, 2007)

Let us know when the next group buy happens -- I wouldn't mind having even just 1 to play with.

-- Chuck Knight


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