# MonsterMag 1 is born! 46 kilocandela, ~2300 lumen



## winny (Dec 24, 2005)

I know it's Christmas, at least here it is (Why is it that you guys over there celibrate Christmas day and we celibrate Christmas eve anyway?), but that doesn't stop me.

I hope that someone hasen't taken the name MonsterMag yet...

This project started in April this year when I got a Philips Masterline ES lamp from a guy I know at Philips. I looked it up and found no other MR16 lamp that was so efficient with so narrow beam. Because of its rated AC-life of 5000 hours, I immediately thought - OVERDRIVE TO THE MAX! Out of the 5000 hours I only plan to be able to use 100 of them, which would mean a bulb-cost of about 22 cents per hour.

Next on the agenda was batteries. Using a 3D host, I could only get 14.4 volt using AA NiMHs. 2/3AA could have done the trick but I opted for 12 Li-Ion AAs. The resons for not using the 14.4 volt solution where two:
1. Boost converters are not as efficient as PWM.
2. There was no room for the coil needed, especially as I wanted to be able to run at 10+ ampere.

The biggest and hardest part was the actual PWM circuit. As I'm an electrical engineering student and we don't learn anything useful in school, I decided to put the rib high in order to actually learn something. 

Therefore I planed for the following features: 
* soft start, in order not to instaflash my bulb
* temperature sensing, just about every component is running on or well above specifications so I figured that some safety is needed.
* 0 uA stand-by load, just because.
* software breaker, because there are no 10+ ampere breakers with negligible resistance in my price range.
* LED indication of battery status, temperature and so on.
* 95+% efficiency, there are no other way using no cooling.
* must be smaller than a D battery in diameter.

All of this was achieved thanks to many hours of work and a buckload of help from my friend Alexander. Thanks Alex!

The data:

Host: Mag 3D, black
Lamp: Philips Masterline ES, 12 V, 45 W, 8 deg, 5000 hour
Batteries: Batteryspace.com's Li-ion 14500, 750 mAh
Battery adapter: modified modamag 12 AA -> 3D
Switch: Bulgin MPI002, LED illuminated
Circuitry: Own design, providing temperature sensing, soft start, full regulation provided that Uin => Uout, LED indication, 95+% efficient

The beamshots:

Please note, currently the MonsterMag is running at 15 volt instead of 16.2 as intended. The data is based on 16.2 volt. The stock Mag had AA batteries, measuring 1.6 volt each before the test but one might argue that AA cells sag under from the 1 ampere load. Nevertheless...


The setup.





Supersize picture 


Stock mag. ISO 50, 10 seconds, F 2.83.




Supersize picture 


MonsterMag 1 at 15 volt. ISO 50, 10 seconds, F 2.83.




Supersize picture



The difference.




Superize picture


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## CLHC (Dec 24, 2005)

What a guy eh? Nice pics and looks like your hard work paid off. . .Enjoy melting the snow with that "MonsterMag"!


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## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 24, 2005)

Very nice!!

I like the field beamshot.

If you get around to it, I would also like to see a Mag85 beam Vs. the MonsterMag!

:goodjob: 

 

-PSM


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## AtomicX (Dec 24, 2005)

How about a picture of the light itself...?


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## winny (Dec 25, 2005)

PoliceScannerMan,

Sure! If I get hold of a Mag85, I will. I think Robban is building one so perhaps at a Swedish get-together.

The Mag85 will probably outthrow it, but in total output it's a close match. I have calculated with 21 minutes runtime for the MosterMag. How long does the Mag85 last?  

AtomicX,

The light is in alpha-stage right now. That is, assembled to the degree that it works, no switch and the lamp isn't fixated yet. Therefore, it looks like crap. I'll put up some production photos though.

I will need beta-testers for the DC-DC converter, using (your) different batteries and lamps to see exactly how useful it is. This is some time in a not too distant future. Would anyone be interested?


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## winny (Dec 25, 2005)

While people are still celibrating Christmas, I'll put up some more photos. 
There was more or less a snowstorm today and me and my friend tried to make the most out of it by doing some beamshots for comparing my flashlights.

Field test. Stock Mag on the.... Yes, you've guessed it, left-hand side. MonsterMag 1 on the right-hand side.




Superize picture 


Up shoot test. MonsterMag 1 on the left-hand side.




Superize picture 

Tree test. My friend on the left-hand side trying to light up his tree with a stock Mag. Me on the other side with my MonsterMag 1.




Superize picture


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## bahamut (Dec 25, 2005)

:goodjob: here's a new record for you to beat:lolsign: : http://www.megaray.com/


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## jtice (Dec 25, 2005)

I know I know, but I have to ask,

Any idea on the runtime? :duck:

I have been thinking of making a very very bright mag mod.
I dont really have any incans, but there has been times a need something 3D or smaller,
that is a "rediculous" amount of light  :devil:

For example, last night, I could have really used to one turn off some street lights,
that were messing up my photos of the local decorated houses.

~John


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## winny (Dec 26, 2005)

jtice,

With 71 watts total power consumption and 12*3.7*0.75 Wh, or more realistically 12*3.7*0.6 Wh in the battery, 21 minutes or so isn't too optimistic.

There are 20 W and 35 W versions of the lamp as well so you could simply decrease the power in favor for runtime. There will be a almost fully linear relation between power and runtime as my DC-DC converter does not even get lukewarm running at 60+ watt, so there is only the batteries to blaim. :naughty: 

Yes, a ridiculous amount of light is the correctly way to describe it. 


bahamut,

Give me a week or two and I'll assemble my 70 W metal halide search light again. That would do it.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 26, 2005)

I've played around with MR16s. A 50W 12 degree drivin by 12AA NimH was pretty impressive. But in my case that is a 4D light and just too big even for fun.

My current fave bright portable light is a 2D with 7AA and a wa01274.

I would like to acquire and experiment with some ROP bulbs, and I'd really like to run 2x18650 in a 2C M*g!!!

But I'm mostly


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## winny (Dec 26, 2005)

PlayboyJoeShmoe,

you know that you can fit 12 NiMHs in one 3D host using modamags battery adapter if you think a 4D is too big for you.

I forgot so say that this particular MR16 is a HIR, providing 40% better efficiency than other halogens due to its IR reflecting layer on the lamp. Quite useful when trying to, well using it.  

How come no one has any questions about my DC-DC converter? I've spent weeks designing and manufacturing it.


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## Waffle (Dec 26, 2005)

> How come no one has any questions about my DC-DC converter? I've spent weeks designing and manufacturing it.


Please tell us more. This looks awesome.


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## Lunarmodule (Dec 26, 2005)

I'm interested in the DC to DC converter and happily volunteer to beta test it, although logistically I live far away from you. I have been closely following the work done by AndrewWynn with his LDO Hotdriver circuit. I am a true believer in the concept of regulated incan output. Major question: Does your converter feature hard voltage clamping to ensure a not to exceed Vbulb ? How soft is the soft start, voltage ramping or current limited, time delay? Oh, I got everything backwards. I meant to begin by congratulating you on your impressive project. Nice to see a fresh incan angle such as yours, quite innovative with the regulation! I would like to see pics of the light, perhaps especially in its raw condition. I have a project light of my own I am planning on using a variety of bulbs inthe 35W-50W-75W range with a massive 18650 based LiIon pack and your converter might be very useful indeed in this application. Please PM or email me if this is a possibility. Thanks and great work!


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## winny (Dec 26, 2005)

Waffle,

wow, you first post! WELCOME TO CPF! 

The converter is a Atmel MEGA32 microprocessor controlled PWM circuit using a 4.7 mohm N-channel FET. It works by constantly measuring the voltage over the lamp differentially and by using a PID regulator, it can determine the correct duty cycle in order to achieve the preset Vout.

The temperature sensor detects the temperature in the lamp and if the temp. is getting high, like 70 degrees C or so, it starts flashing the LED. If it gets too high, like 90 deg. C, it shuts down the lamp.

The microprocessor also measures the battery voltage and can represent it by flashing the LED in different ways and can shut down the lamp of the battery voltage is too low.

It runs with just about any battery and lamp voltage, provided that Vin >= Vout and that Vin < 55 V. The software breaker currently requires Vin > 16 V to run but this could easily be changed. 

Lunarmodule,

As far as I understood it, AndrewWynns LDO driver was a linear regulator which I frankly can't understand why he chose that solution. Heat is a major issue for me as I'm running without any cooling so like I said, 95% efficiency or more is required.

I'll try to answer your questions in order:

*Q*: I'm interested in the DC to DC converter and happily volunteer to beta test it, although logistically I live far away from you.
*A*: No problem. That's why we have postal services. I'll put you up first on my list.

*Q*: Does your converter feature hard voltage clamping to ensure a not to exceed Vbulb ?
*A*: I'm not sure what you mean by voltage clamping but my converter assures that Vout is equal to the preset value by constantly measuring Vout and increasing or decreasing its duty cycle. If you want to run extremely close to your bulbs melting point or something like that you could alter the source code to prioritize decreases and go down in switch frequency to gain more accuracy.

*Q*: How soft is the soft start, voltage ramping or current limited, time delay?
*A*: As soft as you want. Currently, it takes about 1.2 seconds from off to fully on, using voltage ramping. The current is not limited but this could be implemented easily.



Here are some photos. Please note, this is a pre-production alpha test. It looks like crap and the temp. sesor is missing. (I forgot to order it  )

Front side:




Supersize picture 


Back side:




Supersize picture


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## Icebreak (Dec 26, 2005)

Outstanding! :thumbsup:


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## WhiteHot (Dec 26, 2005)

Looks great. A well engineered solution. I hope that you decide to make these available to others in the future. That might even help you pay for spinning the boards


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## Lucien (Dec 26, 2005)

winny said:


> How come no one has any questions about my DC-DC converter? I've spent weeks designing and manufacturing it.



OK, I'll bite... Oops too late.

That is impressive work. :bow:


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## winny (Dec 26, 2005)

WhiteHot,

Certainly! Once I get some beta-testers to nail down all the teething troubles for various lamp/battery configurations, I'll start producing them.
Didn't get the joke. Probably hilarious.


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## Lunarmodule (Dec 26, 2005)

Fascinating stuff... You have to pardon my relative ignorance as I have only a working knowledge of electronic circuits gained from limited experience -- my background is research chemistry so my geek points apply to different areas of interest and provide for steep learning curves. I have recently gotten into modding and lately (for LED) been tinkering with the POP2 driver, which is very intriguing. Learning the fundamentals of PWM for output control. 

For incan, I have a project underway which may be able to use all of your mentioned features, which are quite impressive. I am very grateful to accept your kind offer to be a beta evaluator. I am in it to learn more than anything. Recently cooked up a nice rechargeable LiIon power solution for my SF M6, which needs some refinement by way of reducing voltage to avoid instaflash. It runs a significant overdrive as a direct drive and would like to tone it down a bit for longevity's sake. 

My primary project is developing a quick-change multi-configuration modular oversized Mag light with a huge 18650 based power plant. Space is not a concern there. I highly suggest for something as novel as your design you should look into ways to configure it as a drop in Mag switch replacement. It seems from the photo you have it integrated with the battery holder. Great pics by the way, and let me chastise you for being too critical -- they are very good pics indeed. Form follows function, I dont mind a raw appearance at all - if anything it suggests the atmosphere of brainstorming at work - a good thing.

My setup is loosely based around a 12.6V, 11.1V nominal input, but can be configured for 16.8V, 14.8V nominal no problem. Four cells in parallel side by side not a problem. Heres a link with info on the host. 

Again, congrats on a great accomplishment! There is a considerable need for your invention even those who need it most are possibly unaware of it.


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## wquiles (Dec 26, 2005)

Very, very impressive :goodjob: 

Will


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## Lurveleven (Dec 26, 2005)

Any chance they can be made to fit inside a Kiu kit?
How is the Vout set? By programming the PIC or switching resistors?

Sigbjoern


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 26, 2005)

I gotta get a second job somewhere. I need some of this stuff! But I spend an awful lot of time


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## Icebreak (Dec 26, 2005)

winny -

I try to stay out of conversations about circuitry because I just don't know very much. However, "You want questions? I have blank stares." or did.

On beta testing: I think you've found and will find others that would be better beta testers so I'm not going to ask to do that. It got me thinking though.

Q1) I like WA1166 lamps. They run beautifully on 11 X AA NiMh for 13.2Vf. I use a stick of 10 X 1/2 A because 11 X 1/2 A will insta-flash them. What would have to change in your module for it to work with an 11 X 1/2 A configuration? Maybe nothing?

Q2) "_ * 0 uA stand-by load, just because._"
How is this accomplished?

Second comment: " _Switch: Bulgin MPI002, LED illuminated_ "
User Information Retrieval. That's wonderful.


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## nemul (Dec 27, 2005)

winny said:


> Didn't get the joke. Probably hilarious.




LMAO, now that's funny!


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## Grox (Dec 27, 2005)

Wow, this looks great! Keep up the good work. I have no idea about circuits and stuff but I'm sure that it was an effort to actually get the thing to work.


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## winny (Dec 27, 2005)

*Re: MonsterMag 1 is born! Fully regulated, 46 kilocandela, ~2300 lumen*

Perhaps I should start a new thread in Flashlight electronics instead about the converter but I'll answer your questions first.

Lunarmodule,

Avoiding instaflash is one of my primary concerns as my bulb costs more than I paid for my MagLite. I see no reason why my converter shouldn't avoid instaflash you M6 using any battery pack you desire.

Yes, a drop in is around the corner and I'll try to work on it during the beta-testing.

The integration with the battery holder was not planed but just a quick and dirty solution to get it running and showing of for my friends as soon as possible. A more modular system is on its way.

You didn't specify what voltage you wanted to run with your lamp but you could use just about any voltage for input, at least between perhaps 6 - 55 volt.


Lurveleven,

Currently, the voltage is set by programming the microcontroller, and for your information, it's not a PIC. Not that it matters that much. If the function is desired, it could easily be changed to use resistors for voltage setting.
What is a Kiu kit? It can definitely be made smaller.


PlayboyJoeShmoe,

Don't worry. I'll give you a friendly price.  


Icebreak,

Q1: Pretty much nothing. Avoiding instaflash would not be a problem at all with my converter. You can run just about any battery configuration you want to. I figure you could fit 12 1/2A if you could use 11 and that would still not be a problem, you would just gain runtime.  

Q2: That's a secret!  
No, it's quite easy. The switch, although it's software controlled, it actually hard starts the microcontroller and the microcontroller keeps itself alive. Therefore, there is no stand-by load.


Grox,

You have no idea.  I'll give you some production photos and you can figure out from the timestamps just how much. :sweat:


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## WhiteHot (Dec 27, 2005)

winny said:


> WhiteHot,
> Certainly! Once I get some beta-testers to nail down all the teething troubles for various lamp/battery configurations, I'll start producing them.
> Didn't get the joke. Probably hilarious.



"Spinning" boards is a term used to describe layout and build of the PCB's. Dont know where it came from. I know that getting boards produced can be costly so I was saying that you could get some of that money back by selling them.

If you are looking for testers, let me know what you need. I have access to all types of equipment for building and testing and would be willing to help out. I havent use that particular Atmel part before but do know my way around an MCU ;-)


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## Makarov (Dec 27, 2005)

Hi Winny, Lurveleven is referring to these made by Kiu. If you could make something that could fit with this kit and make it easy to operate, you got an instant winner. I'd love to have a regulated [email protected] 

I know that Kiu is out of stock, but I got a kit from the 4th run, so I'm willing to lend it to you if want to give it a shot.


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## flashgreenie (Dec 27, 2005)

Tja, nice, Winny!!! :goodjob: I been playing around with my Mag85 for 2weeks now. Now I seen this, I got the urge to better mine... How did you manage to make the circuit board??? It looks surface mounted. 

I didn't realize there is that much snow in Gothenburg!!!! :nana:

you need more beta testers??? :wave::huh:


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## winny (Dec 27, 2005)

WhiteHot,

That one was a trickier one than I thought.
The production of the board is not a big issue/cost, although my laybour is required, but thanks for you concerns anyway.


Makarov,

Lurveleven is obviously stealing my ideas because that's what I have plan to build for full production drop ins. Yes, it will, or Ill make it!
I would prefer the other way round, that you get a converter and see what you can do instead, if that would be ok with you. If you lend me one, it won't come back in one piece.  


flashgreenie,

Tjenare! Well, it took some hard acquired soldering skills and a lot of experience (not only my experience that is).
Yes I do. You are number three on my list now but I suspect all of you are going to run with just about the same configuration concerning voltage and current. 
No they don't. All shots are taken from the deep forests of Dalarna.  

Any non-about-12-volt-high-current-projects anyone?


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## vandrecken (Dec 27, 2005)

This is one inspiring light ! I've had a 3D mag lying around ever since I discovered surefires so I've just ordered a couple of those philips lamps to play with.

If you get round to wanting a beta tester no.4 please count me in !


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## Icebreak (Dec 28, 2005)

winny said:


> Q1: Pretty much nothing. Avoiding instaflash would not be a problem at all with my converter. You can run just about any battery configuration you want to. I figure you could fit 12 1/2A if you could use 11 and that would still not be a problem, you would just gain runtime.


 Excellent.



winny said:


> Q2: That's a secret!
> No, it's quite easy. The switch, although it's software controlled, it actually hard starts the microcontroller and the microcontroller keeps itself alive. Therefore, there is no stand-by load.


 I can't believe I actually understood that. Scary.

Comment3:

The fact that this thing runs at a *very high efficiency level and doesn't get very hot, has heat sensing and a software breaker* is impressive. Just what the Doc ordered.

WhiteHot -

No wonder you got so good at HotWires so fast. I'll be looking forward to returns from all the Beta Testers.


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## winny (Dec 28, 2005)

Icebreak said:


> Excellent.


*tapping fingers*









Icebreak said:


> Comment3:
> 
> The fact that this thing runs at a *very high efficiency level and doesn't get very hot, has heat sensing and a software breaker* is impressive. Just what the Doc ordered.



Sure it's efficient, but I didn't get hold of any really cool transistors, like that 2 mohm one andrewwynn was using for his linear regulator. My supplier didn't have those when I started building this one. I've just checked this moment and now they do. My beta-testers will probably experience less losses than I do, and I was pretty happy with the transistor getting just over lukewarm at 6 A, 15 V. 


vandrecken,

Thanks! Inspiring people is not something I get the chance to do every day.  
I'm curious, what did you pay for your lamp? They are very expensive here.

Sure I could include you, but as I said, you are all running 12 volt lamps so you will all be testing pretty much the same thing. However, if 12 volt configurations is what folks are using, then I shouldn't worry about it...
If it's ok with you, I'll keep you on hold until I find my fifth and last board or if no one wants to run some other configuration.

*Doesn't anyone want to run some hyped WA lamp rated for 6 volt or so that sucks a huge amount of current with a 40 volt battery pack or some other crazy configuration?*


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## savumaki (Dec 28, 2005)

Quote;*Doesn't anyone want to run some hyped WA lamp rated for 6 volt or so that sucks a huge amount of current with a 40 volt battery pack or some other crazy configuration?

*I don't know about that but what I'm looking for will be BRIGHT and will last a reasonable length of time (60-70 min).
I have 2D, 3D, and 4D mags that I have run various configurations on (m*g 85 etc) and bright I can get and almost anyone can instaflash a bulb but to factor in runtime is the prob.

From what I understand lamps are most efficient just b4 they go . I'm like PJS and simply can't afford that kind of excitement.

Your development (congratulations) will solve that and allow the use of reasonably priced and efficient bulbs to be run on the 'edge' so to speak.

A 6V bulb on 'edge' would be a great pkg. -small, bright, AND long runtime.

I'd like to be a beta tester.

regards from snowsville (although not much of it YET)

Karl


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## winny (Dec 28, 2005)

savumaki,

I didn't understand everything you said, but if I find my last board, I'll include you in the first run of beta-testing.

Please note: I'm just as broke as you guys are so there will be a fee for covering postal costs and perhaps some material costs, but you will be able to buy the final version for a heavily discounted price.


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## Makarov (Dec 28, 2005)

winny said:


> Makarov,
> 
> Lurveleven is obviously stealing my ideas because that's what I have plan to build for full production drop ins. Yes, it will, or Ill make it!
> I would prefer the other way round, that you get a converter and see what you can do instead, if that would be ok with you. If you lend me one, it won't come back in one piece.


Thanks for your offer, but I suck in electronics, so I guess it have to be up to somone else to try this. Maybe Lurveleven?

And I don't bother getting the kit back looking different than when I sent it, as long as it's mounted to a regulated switch ready to drop-in 
Just let me know and I'll be happy to supply


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## WhiteHot (Dec 28, 2005)

winny said:


> Please note: I'm just as broke as you guys are so there will be a fee for covering postal costs and perhaps some material costs, but you will be able to buy the final version for a heavily discounted price.



No problem. This will be fun to test. What are some possible configurations that you want to test with. I wouldnt mind buying some new "toys" to help out with the testing.

Also, can you go into more detail about the software breaker. I am curious as to why it needs > 16V to function.


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## winny (Dec 28, 2005)

Makarov said:


> Thanks for your offer, but I suck in electronics, so I guess it have to be up to someone else to try this. Maybe Lurveleven?



The thing is that school has tried to kill me with work before so I can't give any garantiees that I will finish assembling the final drop in in a reasonable time. 



Makarov said:


> And I don't bother getting the kit back looking different than when I sent it, as long as it's mounted to a regulated switch ready to drop-in
> Just let me know and I'll be happy to supply



This could be arranged with the final version. The prototype ended up quite a lot more expensive than the final version will.
Do you have any drawings for your drop-in kit? How much space is there inside?
It seems to me that it uses the stock switch, so it will require some modding to get it to supply minus/negative/- constantly and make the switch operate my board instead. It's not exactly what I had in mind but we will see where this ends.




WhiteHot said:


> No problem. This will be fun to test. What are some possible configurations that you want to test with. I wouldnt mind buying some new "toys" to help out with the testing.
> 
> Also, can you go into more detail about the software breaker. I am curious as to why it needs > 16V to function.



I have concerns if someone would try to run at 6 volt, 15 ampere lamp with low switch frequency and with a 40 volt battery-pack, that's why I wanted to test just that. Just trying running at a different voltage would be a healthy experience. 

The software switch needs 16 or so volt to operate because we choose BJTs for this function (they are cheaper) and as we didn't expect this much stir, we hard wired it for my 25 volt application. This could easily be changed by swapping resistors.
I'm not sure I want to disclose all details about this project, although there is no rocket-science involved, and open-source it quite yet. I have bills to pay... We'll see


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## vandrecken (Dec 28, 2005)

winny said:


> .....
> vandrecken ... I'm curious, what did you pay for your lamp? They are very expensive here ....



Hi Winny, I paid a total of GBP15 for two Masterline ES 45w 8 degree lamps including delivery from a supplier here in the UK. I didn't bother to shop around as that seemed like a pretty fair price ! If this is much better than you can get them, give me a shout and I'll check on costs to send some on to you. These aren't specifically stated to be Philips but the description's exactly matches what you wrote and I assume the masterline name's trademarked so they should be.

Now if you want to get really silly, for four times the price I could get 20v / 150 watt rated Gx5.3 projector lamps... Are there any fan cooled torches out there I wonder ?

Cheers, Vandrecken


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## winny (Dec 28, 2005)

vandrecken said:


> Hi Winny, I paid a total of GBP15 for two Masterline ES 45w 8 degree lamps including delivery from a supplier here in the UK.
> ...
> These aren't specifically stated to be Philips but the description's exactly matches what you wrote and I assume the masterline name's trademarked so they should be.
> 
> Now if you want to get really silly, for four times the price I could get 20v / 150 watt rated Gx5.3 projector lamps... Are there any fan cooled torches out there I wonder ?



Wow, that's a bargain! If you can get all Masterline ES lamps for that kind of money, I'll swap out all my crappy IKEA MR16's at home.
It was strange though that it didn't say "Philips" on the lamp. Production change or a new niche for counterfeiters?
Here is a picture of mine for comparison.





Yes, the projector lamps! I have been looking at those too. The only problem, except for the price is that they don't say what beam spread angle is. Does anyone know?
If it's narrow, it could make an extremely cool (or perhaps hot :devil: ) flashlight.


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## flashgreenie (Dec 28, 2005)

Here are some pics for the KIU socket kit. It is two pieces(aluminium circular piece that sit on top of the MAGD switch and the ceramic bulb socket) with some screws and spacer screw.

http://www.gerbil.se/torches2005.htm



winny said:


> The thing is that school has tried to kill me with work before so I can't give any garantiees that I will finish assembling the final drop in in a reasonable time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## winny (Dec 29, 2005)

flashgreenie,

I think my *current* circuit boards are too large to fit inside that, especially if the two screws goes through the whole thing. If you lathe down (or rather up the ID of) your KIU socket or file down my converter to the limit, it will. 

For the final version, we can easily (touch wood) fit it inside that!

If someone wants to use a *C*-size KIU socket, we might have to sacrifice temperature sensing.


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## andrewwynn (Dec 30, 2005)

Nice.. i have no idea how i missed this thread.. oh yeah probably from being sick the past two weeks solid and only checking my subscribed threads. 

In any event.. really beatiful design i love the incorporation of temp sensing and pwm is a very nice solution. 

To answer your question about why would i use LDO.. in most cases i'm experiencing efficienciies over 97% and i built my first regulator in about two hours start to finish.. the designis so simple.. well here it is:







My very first one, since i used DPAK size transistor i needed to carve out some of the mag switch to get it to fit.. but using some simliar concepts i think this regulator could fit not 'in' but 'under' a KIU.. sandwiched between the mag switch and the KIU.. as long as there is a space for the two holes to attach them. 

There are some cases where this regulator would be a lot more efficient, but even in the extreme case of using the regulator i'm making in the 100W lamp.. i'm getting efficiencies over 90%.

Impossible to 'knock' this regulator it's way beyond the more simple deisgn i have,though they both accomplish some of the same things (temp overheat protection.. low voltage protection, regulated output of course). If you need a widely varied Vin vs Vout you need this regulator not mine.. If you mostly need to prevent over voltage from flashing your bulbs and want to add in low voltage you won't beat the efficiency of my regulator.. (typical efficiency of 99.8%). 

Let me know if you need some extremely low resistance FETs i can put some extras on my next order and ship them. I pay about $1.50 to 1.70 each for DPAK or D2PAK FETs and they are typically 3 to 4 mohm resistance. 

If you still need a beta tester for your last unit let me know i most certainly would fine a place for it. Improved efficiency on the higher-power lights can not hurt.. some examples.. running the 1160 lamp at 6.5V from a 7.2V battery.. I'm below 90% efficient. I also run the 1166 lamp at 12.5 from a 14.4V solution.. 88% efficient. 

I'm used to 90% efficiency in most of my LED lights (maybe 92).. so these are ball-park the same and it is all about the simplicity..l check out my driver ckt compared to this one.. now the one shown doesn't yet include the high-temp ckt, that takes 4 more resistors and a SOT 23-5 chip, and of course the FET is 'out of frame' but other than that that is the completely operational ckt. 

Of course there are trade offs.. i designed 'hotdriver' to be specifically for matched battery solutions.. cell and lamp combos that already 'mostly work'.. but you'd like to double the life expectancy of your lamps by not spiking them with high voltage from fresh batteries and also incorporate low voltage cutout.. this is clearly a differenc concept than pwm voltage switching.. 

All in all.. looks like a stunning project two thumbs up.. send me an email about that last board if you want somebody to put it through its paces. 

-awr


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## winny (Dec 30, 2005)

andrewwynn said:


> Nice.. i have no idea how i missed this thread.. oh yeah probably from being sick the past two weeks solid and only checking my subscribed threads.



That sucks! Why is it that you get sick as soon as there is a holiday and you relax? I kept myself busy so I'm ok so far. I hope you are feeling better now...



andrewwynn said:


> Impossible to 'knock' this regulator it's way beyond the more simple deisgn i have,though they both accomplish some of the same things (temp overheat protection.. low voltage protection, regulated output of course). If you need a widely varied Vin vs Vout you need this regulator not mine.. If you mostly need to prevent over voltage from flashing your bulbs and want to add in low voltage you won't beat the efficiency of my regulator.. (typical efficiency of 99.8%).



Well, if Vin = Vout, my regulator would stop switching and Ron + MCU load would be the only loads. If I would use a transistor with lower Ron, this could be accomplished. Your circuit is smaller though.




andrewwynn said:


> Let me know if you need some extremely low resistance FETs i can put some extras on my next order and ship them. I pay about $1.50 to 1.70 each for DPAK or D2PAK FETs and they are typically 3 to 4 mohm resistance.



I haven't decided if I should use surface mounted or hollow mounted transistors yet. It's build height vs. circuit board area. That was cheap! I payed over twice that for mine. Thanks for your offer! I'll think about it.



andrewwynn said:


> If you still need a beta tester for your last unit let me know i most certainly would fine a place for it. Improved efficiency on the higher-power lights can not hurt.. some examples.. running the 1160 lamp at 6.5V from a 7.2V battery.. I'm below 90% efficient. I also run the 1166 lamp at 12.5 from a 14.4V solution.. 88% efficient.



I can see if I can arrange a passaround among the beta-testers, but no guaranties. So far, no one has reported that they are going to run a test at 6.5 volt except you and that's the kind of tests I need.

*Due to the fact that most questions concern the regulator and not the flashlight, I have started a new thread in "Flashlight electronics". If you have questions about the flashlight, please post them here. Otherwise, follow the link.* 

Link to the new thread


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## wtraymond (Dec 30, 2005)

winny said:


> Any non-about-12-volt-high-current-projects anyone?



I'm working on a medium current (~5amp) 7.2v NiMH project in a custom host and I'd like to incorporate regulation. Are you looking for more beta testers?

Your server must be down because I can't see the pictures anymore.


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## winny (Dec 30, 2005)

wtraymond,

My server experienced a bit of downtime today. It's working again now though...

Because so many CPFers wanted to become beta-testers, I will seriosly consider a beta-test-passaround because I have so few boards. There will be a thread for the beta-testing-passaround and I'll PM everyone involved when this becomes topical.


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## andrewwynn (Dec 30, 2005)

So.. now that the reg. questions are elsewhere.. tell us more about the light! 

What is the rated current/voltage/lumen of the lamp and what voltage are you running it at? Also.. i'm gathering you are talking about bulb lumen in the name.. or is this a 100+W light like the USL and actually is 2300ish torch lumen? 

Either way.. it's pretty awesome. 

Oh.. looking at the pics.. you are using the modamag holder? I have an incredible upgrade to the holder that makes it muuuuch more robust (I needed to.. with using 14.4V to run 13.2V at the 100W lamp.. 8.78A of current just melted the springs.. not pretty). You are using a 44.4V battery pack? 12X14500? that'll keep the current nice and low.. it's far more difficult to deal with battery resistance problems with lower voltage let me tell you.. we turned springs into purple-blue non-springy wire more than once in testing.

(now the holders have no springs.. faaaar lower resistance!)

Well i would love to see the beamshots from this thing.. and more info about the lamp and where i could get one.. is this the MR16 type lamp with the reflector built in? that would be very nice because means no need to buy the alum. reflector!.. how well does it fit.. any mods to the head to make it work? )

-awr


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## winny (Dec 31, 2005)

andrewwynn said:


> What is the rated current/voltage/lumen of the lamp and what voltage are you running it at? Also.. i'm gathering you are talking about bulb lumen in the name.. or is this a 100+W light like the USL and actually is 2300ish torch lumen?



It's a 12.0 volt, 3.75 ampere lamp. Because it has an integrated reflector, all lamp manufacturers refuse to rate its luminous flux [lumen], including Philips. Therefore, I looked up what the same lamp without reflector would produce, calculated the overdrive effects and multiplied it with 0.7 for 70% efficiency of the reflector. This could be more, and I can raise the voltage even more. The values in the title are based on 16.2 volt, but I’m running at 15 volt in the pictures. If I decide to sacrifice the runtime even more and drive the batteries far above specifications, I might end up using about 17 volt.



andrewwynn said:


> Oh.. looking at the pics.. you are using the modamag holder? I have an incredible upgrade to the holder that makes it muuuuch more robust (I needed to.. with using 14.4V to run 13.2V at the 100W lamp.. 8.78A of current just melted the springs.. not pretty). You are using a 44.4V battery pack? 12X14500? that'll keep the current nice and low.. it's far more difficult to deal with battery resistance problems with lower voltage let me tell you.. we turned springs into purple-blue non-springy wire more than once in testing.



Yes I am. I modified it to be a 6S2P holder (2 parallel packs of (6 batteries in series)). Therefore, it's a 22.2 volt pack, using 12 14500s. I realized that if I where using low switch frequency, the batteries would experience a much larger current go through them than they where actually rated for.
I liked your silver soldering of the springs. I'll think of it when I build my upcoming 160 W light.
Purple-blue springs? Sexy! oo: 




andrewwynn said:


> Well i would love to see the beamshots from this thing.. and more info about the lamp and where i could get one.. is this the MR16 type lamp with the reflector built in? that would be very nice because means no need to buy the alum. reflector!.. how well does it fit.. any mods to the head to make it work? )



There are some beamshots on the first page of this thread. At least I can see the pictures. Please tell me if you can't.
The nice thing about MR16s, except for their integrated reflectors, is that they fit just about perfect in a Mag head. There is a 5 mm gap in front of the lamp that has to be filled with something if it isn't secured from the backside but there is no gap sideways. No mods here, except for perhaps a spacing ring.
The lamp is a Philips Masterline ES, 45 W, 8 degrees, featuring HIR. You could use an Osram IRC Decostar 50W 10 degrees instead as it too features HIR, if you want maximum efficiency (and you probably do). Ask in your local light/hardware store...


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## andrewwynn (Dec 31, 2005)

doing a little reverse engineering it looks like you used a base lumen output of about 1150 bulb lumen? That puts it at a high but not unreasonable 25.6L/W.. very nice.. however. 59% overdrive calculates to 46L/W which is probably a bit too high.. just about 40 is the maximum if i remember correctly... regardless using the formulas and the 'standard' of 65% for the reflector i would myself calculate 2137L .. the only dif. being the 65%.. the formulas are only indended to be accurate for 20% variance though.. You should do a 'bounce test' compared to a known light like a Mag85 at a measured current. i would be very interested to see just what kind of light is coming out of that lamp it's a very neat and exciting solution.. especially with that ludicrous bulb life rating. 

re-working the numbers at 15V.. i would estimate 2500/1600 Lumen.... efficacy still rates to 39.5L/W which is probably a little too high to really be accurate but it's not likely that far off either.. looks like a killer lamp. 

I've been looking for lamps that don't push so hard.. to get a lot of light but more runtime than the 100W osram.. the 100R with this lamp would have a runtime of 28 minutes.. sweet. 1300 torch lumens.. with 28% overdrive it's also going to have nice color.. not like 15V of course. 

Funny you mention modifying the pack to SP.. i just did that two days ago with an 8-pack to make a 14.4V pack with the MM holder. 

The spring fix for the battery pack was 'yesterday's news'.. the latest pack is many times improved. 

Holy cow with 160W.. that sounds exciting. 

so.. with roughly 64W you are pulling about 1.5A which is 2.14C.. a little higher than recommended but not tragic either.. my initial M66 was pulling 2.6C from the same cells. Fortunately because of the relatively low current draw you won't need the mod i did with the MM holder to pull 9A out of it... LiONs are nice that way. 

Re beamshots.. i meant like others mentioned.. some side-by-side with a known light say a mag85. 

sounds like if you just need 5mm extra length on the KIU socket to hold the MR16 against the glass? I will def. have to get some MR16 type lamps to experiement with.. this particular one sounds incredible. 

I prefer flood vs spot so i'll have to look for that Decostar 50W. 

Well.. good to check out your light more.. it's awesome, keep up the good work. 

-awr


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## NewBie (Dec 31, 2005)

winny said:


> jtice,
> 
> There will be a almost fully linear relation between power and runtime as my DC-DC converter does not even get lukewarm running at 60+ watt, so there is only the batteries to blaim. :naughty:




Looking at your board, and the components, this is just a power pulser, or PWM, that just passes power from the input to output, but in brief full power pulses (limited only by the batteries and load), right?

As such, it would not be considered a DC to DC converter.

Do you happen to have any oscilloscope shots of the output, on a scale that shows your PWM at work in to the bulb load(the off and on pulses and rise/fall times)?


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## CroMAGnet (Dec 31, 2005)

I'm guessing this is 2300 *bulb* Lumens??


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## andrewwynn (Dec 31, 2005)

No.. i think winny (funny i just realized that's almost my middle name).. already asnwered that it was calculated torch lumens. 

It looks like there are two large caps.. presumeably in and out.. Would that not work in conjunctino with a PWM switcher to smooth the output ripple so the bulb does in-fact only see the desired lamp voltage +/- the ripple... I'm not familar with how PWM works exactly in this regard.. I would love to see what the output looks like on an o-scope.. is it pulses of much higher voltage that averages to the bulb voltage.. or does the cap smooth to a trinalge waveform that is just about bulb voltage?


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## NewBie (Dec 31, 2005)

andrewwynn said:


> No.. i think winny (funny i just realized that's almost my middle name).. already asnwered that it was calculated torch lumens.
> 
> It looks like there are two large caps.. presumeably in and out.. Would that not work in conjunctino with a PWM switcher to smooth the output ripple so the bulb does in-fact only see the desired lamp voltage +/- the ripple... I'm not familar with how PWM works exactly in this regard.. I would love to see what the output looks like on an o-scope.. is it pulses of much higher voltage that averages to the bulb voltage.. or does the cap smooth to a trinalge waveform that is just about bulb voltage?




That would take a bit more capacitance than is there, and adding that capacitance would increase the losses during the MOSFET switching time. You could run the PWM power pulser at a couple of Megahertz, but then you get losses pushing things that fast. You don't slam a capacitor hard on to the power source without a good amount of losses there, and then additional losses, pulling the power out of the capacitors. Thats why a person uses an inductor to make a full true converter. BTW, Andrew, two 100uF caps wouldn't do much into a 50W load anyhow. Think a little bit about the ESR on the capacitors, and trying to pass that much energy into and out of the capacitors...

This is the reason why switched capacitor DC-DC converters (aka charge pumps) are not efficient at high power levels, and can only handle low power levels.

A person though, might put the capacitors on the input, which would make things alot easier on the battery, and reduce losses internal to the cells.

Though the capacitors don't appear to be hooked to the output on the layout, they may just be filtering power for the ATMEL ATmega uC, to give it a clean power source.

Care to show us some output waveforms across the bulb?


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## winny (Jan 1, 2006)

andrewwynn said:


> doing a little reverse engineering it looks like you used a base lumen output of about 1150 bulb lumen? That puts it at a high but not unreasonable 25.6L/W.. very nice..



Correct! It uses the same lamp as this one. Link 




andrewwynn said:


> however. 59% overdrive calculates to 46L/W which is probably a bit too high.. just about 40 is the maximum if i remember correctly...



Unfortunately, you might be correct here too, IF you can believe Osram. 





BUT! According to Philips OEM guide for this lamp, I wouldn’t even be close to tungsten’s melting point. I know perfectly well that there is a conversion factor between correlated color temperature and tungsten burning temperature but even when this is considered, I'm not even close. See below.





This makes me think that Osrams information is not correct when you are using HIR lamps. There is not a linear relation between increased efficiency at a certain level and maximum efficiency so I will not claim that Osrams level can be increased by 40%. This calls for more tests and research.

If Osram is right that would kind of broke some of my dreams. 
Freaking tungsten filament! I have to invent something better.  




andrewwynn said:


> regardless using the formulas and the 'standard' of 65% for the reflector i would myself calculate 2137L .. the only dif. being the 65%.. the formulas are only indended to be accurate for 20% variance though.. You should do a 'bounce test' compared to a known light like a Mag85 at a measured current. i would be very interested to see just what kind of light is coming out of that lamp it's a very neat and exciting solution.. especially with that ludicrous bulb life rating.



65%? That's low! Who was it that has got hold of some special prototype reflector with 98% efficiency? I saw it here about half a year ago or so.
Will do! As soon as I get hold of one.




andrewwynn said:


> I've been looking for lamps that don't push so hard.. to get a lot of light but more runtime than the 100W osram.. the 100R with this lamp would have a runtime of 28 minutes.. sweet. 1300 torch lumens.. with 28% overdrive it's also going to have nice color.. not like 15V of course.



May I ask why, as efficiency goes up with overdriving? To heck with lifetime! I just want to feel the power of the sun in my hands! (Stolen and modified motto)




andrewwynn said:


> Holy cow with 160W.. that sounds exciting.



Someone should stop me soon, before anyone dies or end up blind from excessive photon exposure. I mean after 160 W, I can't go down in power. That would be like transforming back to a Neanderthal.  




andrewwynn said:


> so.. with roughly 64W you are pulling about 1.5A which is 2.14C.. a little higher than recommended but not tragic either.. my initial M66 was pulling 2.6C from the same cells. Fortunately because of the relatively low current draw you won't need the mod i did with the MM holder to pull 9A out of it... LiONs are nice that way.



Indeed, but I won't use them again unless absolutely necessary. They had the same energy-density as AA NiMH but are far more dangerous and won't stand from abuse as good. Did the cells manage well at 2.6C?




andrewwynn said:


> sounds like if you just need 5mm extra length on the KIU socket to hold the MR16 against the glass? I will def. have to get some MR16 type lamps to experiement with.. this particular one sounds incredible.
> 
> I prefer flood vs spot so i'll have to look for that Decostar 50W.



Correction, there is no glass but the MR16s own front glass. That cuts the $7 cost of an UCL. You can get an HIR MR16 for that money!
I don't know if you are familiar with MR16s but you can get them from 20 - 100 W and from 8 - 60+ degrees, so you can almost have as much flood or spot you like.


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## andrewwynn (Jan 1, 2006)

thanks for the link.. funky bulb... a 'bulb within a bulb'. I hope to get my hands on it.. sounds like the efficacy i'd like in a lower power bulb.. i can make a "mag70" (watts).. and get a lot more runtime than my Mag100. 

The efficacy of the really efficient bulbs typically is about 36L/W or so. i'm curious about this "HIR' and what that is or does. The efficacy is related to the temperature which has a obvious upper limit if using tungsten, since it will melt, hard as that is to do. 

HID is where it's at for higher efficacy.. however the trade off of instant-on is harsh.. 3x the light per watt with high pressure sodium... but a minute to turn on and yellow light.. harsh trade off. 

The 65% is just a standard that is typically used when talking about maglite reflectors.. i would actually bet the built-in reflector would be a little more efficient so i would have used the 70% figure possibly as well. 

with a regulator and soft-start we will be able to get away with pushing lamps harder.. i love using the 1166 WA lamp at 12.6V.. but no way in hell to do without a regulator.. i have discovered that when re-rating lamps, if you keep the re-rated bulb life over about 8-10 hrs you will have a viable combination.. less than 8 and you'll likely instaflash if you dno't use a regulator... i've taking 2000hr lamps and realllly pushed them hard.
Example.. the westinghouse 04424 lamp is a 6V 35W lamp.. but it's 2000 hr life means it has a very thick filament and can really be pushed hard. I've used it at 8.3V regulated and we even have run it direct-drive from a 9.6V.. compare that to the osram 35W lamp.. which i blew with a regulator at 7.2 but at 7.0V (44W).. it's about as much light as a mag85 at 11.1V. 

After using the Mag100 a few times.. yes.. i can admit you will be 'tainted' for life.. always wondering if the batteries are dead on your other lights. A mag 85 is just 'normal' to me now.. not exceptionally bright at all.. the lights that have only 400-500 torch lumens.. 'toys'.. 

The LiON 14500s ran well at 2.6C but i only got about 83% of rated AH out of them.. i haven't done a runtime yet on the 14650s but they only run 2.06C so i think i'll get much closer to rated capacity now. 

I think that the ones pushed hard will just not last as many cycles.. maybe 100-200 vs 400-500.

bult-in glass.. now i really need to check it out.. 

-awr


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## flashgreenie (Jan 2, 2006)

one note about using the MR16 bulb in the KIU bipin holder. The fatter legs of the MR16 ruins the KIU bipin bulb holder since after that my WA1185 bipin bulb only sits loosely in it. A shake while holding the MAG would move the 1185bulb. I had to change the bipin holder to make it snug for the 1185 bipin bulb. Guess its not spring loaded metal in the bipin holder


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## winny (Jan 2, 2006)

NewBie said:


> That would take a bit more capacitance than is there, and adding that capacitance would increase the losses during the MOSFET switching time.



No. Why should the MOSFET mind?




NewBie said:


> You don't slam a capacitor hard on to the power source without a good amount of losses there, and then additional losses, pulling the power out of the capacitors.



Sure you do! Do some reverse engineering on any commercial power supply and you will get the idea. If you require perfect DC out, you would opt for a inductor based power supply, but sience you almost never do and because coils are more expensive and bigger, you don't.




NewBie said:


> Thats why a person uses an inductor to make a full true converter.



Good luck! I have my PayPal account standing by when you can present me a 10+ ampere version of the converter which is 95+% efficient and not any larger. 
Because my incandescent lamps integrate the voltage over time quite well by afterglowing, I don't need perfect DC.




NewBie said:


> BTW, Andrew, two 100uF caps wouldn't do much into a 50W load anyhow. Think a little bit about the ESR on the capacitors, and trying to pass that much energy into and out of the capacitors...



Sure they would! ONE 100 uF capacitor at 25 volt contains 32.25 milijoules if you discharge it completely. If you only discharge it to 15 volt, you might have 10 milijoules. Right 10 milijoues at 50 watt load, which equals 0.2 milliseconds which would translate to a switch frequency of 5 kHz. Easy! So, we have enough energy, but do we have enough power?
With an ESR of about 0.3 ohms (like this ) at 100 kHz, and about 4 ohms in the lamp, we are looking at some 145 W from just one capacitor. Sure this will go down as voltage drops over the capacitor, but read on for the punch line.




NewBie said:


> This is the reason why switched capacitor DC-DC converters (aka charge pumps) are not efficient at high power levels, and can only handle low power levels.



Right... I don't know how high powered flashlights you are building but I suspect less than 1 kW and still mobile so I think you will have to live with PWM and capacitors. And for the record, I think 95% is rather efficient.




NewBie said:


> A person though, might put the capacitors on the input, which would make things alot easier on the battery, and reduce losses internal to the cells.



Correct. If I would use NiMHs, I might have saved a few bucks and skipped them but I'm already pulling more RMS-current from my Li-Ions than they are intended for so a capacitor makes life a bit easier for them.




NewBie said:


> Though the capacitors don't appear to be hooked to the output on the layout, they may just be filtering power for the ATMEL ATmega uC, to give it a clean power source.



Correct. This was a prototype, I took what I had and figured 100 uF would be more than enough.
Here is my punch line:
You don't need perfect DC for you incandescent lamps! I would still call my converter a DC-DC converter but I would not have used it for anything that needs perfect DC without any ripple. Currently I'm running without any capacitor on the output and it works fine. If people wanted less ripple I could easily add a capacitor on the output. That would might save a few hours of the lamps lifetime but it uses up space and I think that most people would sacrifice a little bit of lamp life in order to make it fit better.




NewBie said:


> Care to show us some output waveforms across the bulb?



Sure thing! I'll get on it by the end of this week.


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## winny (Jan 2, 2006)

andrewwynn said:


> thanks for the link.. funky bulb... a 'bulb within a bulb'. I hope to get my hands on it.. sounds like the efficacy i'd like in a lower power bulb.. i can make a "mag70" (watts).. and get a lot more runtime than my Mag100.



You probably understood it anyway, but just in case, that link was not an MR16 lamp but rather the halogen bulb within it that I based my calculations on.
I think I posted the MR16 link somewhere here... Here it is anyway. Philips MR16 



andrewwynn said:


> The efficacy of the really efficient bulbs typically is about 36L/W or so. i'm curious about this "HIR' and what that is or does. The efficacy is related to the temperature which has a obvious upper limit if using tungsten, since it will melt, hard as that is to do.



It works by reflecting the IR radiation back to the filament so that less heat is wasted for just keeping the filament hot. If you want more information I can send you a PDF file on the subject. Just PM me...



andrewwynn said:


> The 65% is just a standard that is typically used when talking about maglite reflectors.. i would actually bet the built-in reflector would be a little more efficient so i would have used the 70% figure possibly as well.



I called Philips today do discuss the topic but unfortunately, their intranet halted while we where talking so he could not tell me so much. He told me to call tomorrow and he would look in to it and try to find an answer by then. I'll keep you posted on the matter.



andrewwynn said:


> After using the Mag100 a few times.. yes.. i can admit you will be 'tainted' for life.. always wondering if the batteries are dead on your other lights. A mag 85 is just 'normal' to me now.. not exceptionally bright at all.. the lights that have only 400-500 torch lumens.. 'toys'..



Lol! I have problems visiting friends and their dark homes. "WHAT! Only one 710 lumen light bulb for this big room?" HID lamps at home for lighting and high powered flashlights when outside, I'm getting used to that all objects are illuminated to 1000 lux or more.




andrewwynn said:


> bult-in glass.. now i really need to check it out..



Just make sure you get an HIR one (ES if it's Philips, IRC if it's Osram). Yes, they are that good when you have a limited amount of energy in your batteries.


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## MSI (Jan 2, 2006)

winny said:


> You probably understood it anyway, but just in case, that link was not an MR16 lamp but rather the halogen bulb within it that I based my calculations on.
> I think I posted the MR16 link somewhere here... Here it is anyway. Philips MR16


 
Are you sure they are the same bulbs? I noticed the MR16 bulb had lower color temperature rating than the stand alone bulb you were refering to.
I couldn't find a bulb life rating for the separate bulb.


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## winny (Jan 2, 2006)

MSI,

Quite. The heat reflecting layer on the MR16 will interfere to some extent with the color temperature, hence the difference.
Their webpage is a joke and the only useful information comes from their OEM catalogue. I'll see if I can find the PDFs for the lamps for you.


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## Pajamas (Jan 2, 2006)

Winny,

I must say -- your board looks and seems to perform awesome. Your MonsterMag1 seems to solve a problem that I've been interested in ever since I built my first Mag85 several months ago:
- Soft Start
- Regulated with a battery life indicator
- Temperature controlled (Mag85s run too warm if used for long periods of time)

I've been looking to do another Mag project -- one that involves the MR16 style lamps and in a 2D, 3D or 4D size -- this might have to be it.

Please let me know how the board work is going -- I am by far NOT a electronics person -- so I have no idea what anyone has been talking about so far on this thread other than the basics. Would like to help so let me know what you need.

PJ


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## winny (Jan 3, 2006)

Pajamas,

Thanks! A appreciate that.

Don't worry, I'll keep you posted. 
I hope that the beta-testing boards will be sent out by mail by the beginning of next week. The week thereafter, I hope to have some good reports from the beta testers so I can start taking in preorders and send of the new board layout for production. Two more weeks thereafter and I just might be soldering together the boards and start shipping them to their new (impatient  ) owners.


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## Pajamas (Jan 3, 2006)

how did you know I was impatient...oh, yeah, I'm a Flashaholic....


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## NewBie (Jan 4, 2006)

winny said:


> No. Why should the MOSFET mind?



Because if you are using a capacitor to transfer the power, when you slam on the mosfet, the transistion time burns lots of power, unless the power source is limited, but you still burn power during that time. Using lossy capacitors will burn power, but limit the surge current.





winny said:


> Sure you do! Do some reverse engineering on any commercial power supply and you will get the idea. If you require perfect DC out, you would opt for a inductor based power supply, but sience you almost never do and because coils are more expensive and bigger, you don't.



I understand, I don't need to reverse engineer, as part of my job is designing them.





winny said:


> Good luck! I have my PayPal account standing by when you can present me a 10+ ampere version of the converter which is 95+% efficient and not any larger.
> Because my incandescent lamps integrate the voltage over time quite well by afterglowing, I don't need perfect DC.



They might integrate the heat, as once you remove the power, there is no voltage or current, so isn't it really the heat that is integrated?




winny said:


> Sure they would! ONE 100 uF capacitor at 25 volt contains 32.25 milijoules if you discharge it completely. If you only discharge it to 15 volt, you might have 10 milijoules. Right 10 milijoues at 50 watt load, which equals 0.2 milliseconds which would translate to a switch frequency of 5 kHz. Easy! So, we have enough energy, but do we have enough power?
> With an ESR of about 0.3 ohms (like this ) at 100 kHz, and about 4 ohms in the lamp, we are looking at some 145 W from just one capacitor. Sure this will go down as voltage drops over the capacitor, but read on for the punch line.




Now, tell me, with P=I^2*R, and with the 10 amps you mentioned (you will have roughly 10A flowing both into and out of the capacitor), 10A^2*0.3ohms= 30 Watts dissipated in the capacitor, if you were using it to transfer the power. The capacitor would explode under this condition. I'd be much more inclinded to believe you are just pulsing the output directly via the Willie Hunt PWM method...





winny said:


> Right... I don't know how high powered flashlights you are building but I suspect less than 1 kW and still mobile so I think you will have to live with PWM and capacitors. And for the record, I think 95% is rather efficient.



I have one I've been fiddling with for awhile now, working on the performance/heat/cost/size trade-offs, around 130W. A prototype of it was shown at one of the meets down in California.




winny said:


> Correct. This was a prototype, I took what I had and figured 100 uF would be more than enough.
> Here is my punch line:
> You don't need perfect DC for you incandescent lamps! I would still call my converter a DC-DC converter but I would not have used it for anything that needs perfect DC without any ripple. Currently I'm running without any capacitor on the output and it works fine. If people wanted less ripple I could easily add a capacitor on the output. That would might save a few hours of the lamps lifetime but it uses up space and I think that most people would sacrifice a little bit of lamp life in order to make it fit better.



You might want to reconsider that, see the power dissipation in the capacitor mentioned above. In your circuit now, it is obviously you are just PWMing the power, and not using the cap to transfer or smooth the power, just banging on the filament with the PWM.





winny said:


> Sure thing! I'll get on it by the end of this week.



Swell.


Seeing that there is about 10 dollars in components on your board, how much do you think you will charge for it?


FYI, your PWM bulb circuit is very similar to the infamous Willie Hunt regulator.
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~willie/lvr.html


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## winny (Jan 4, 2006)

NewBie,

I will answer your questions in time but I have a date in about half an hour so this will be a quick one.


If you think that Willes regulator, as well as mine, works so bad and you can build your own much cheaper and better, why don't you do just that?

You don't have to buy mine, no one is forcing you. If you are whining because you haven't managed to pull of your own flashlight regulator project, or whatever the reason is, I suggest you do something a little bit more constructive instead.


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## winny (Jan 6, 2006)

For all of you who have indicated their interest for the beta testing and other people who are curious about the beta-testing can go here:

BETA TESTING

Questions about the MonsterMag 1 can still be asked here and questions and comments about the upcoming regulator, the PIR 1, can be asked/said here:REGULATOR


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## brightnorm (Jan 6, 2006)

Winny,

As one of the many enthusiastic but less electronically sophisticated CPF'rs I am very interested in this project. Using my USL as a comparison is there similar potential in a 2-D Mag using your regulator in terms of lumens and runtime? In view of your invention's superior heat handling could you approach similar performance in a 2C? I'd appreciate your reply in simple layman's terms.

Brightnorm


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## winny (Jan 8, 2006)

brightnorm,

Yes. How long your MagLite is does not affect the use of my regulator. You can most certainly use it in your USL, provided that it fits. If it doesn't, I'll make it.
If you have matched voltage of your batteries and your bulb, which you do in a USL, the benefits you will have is to eliminate the risk of instaflashing and switch resistance provided that you use the software switch. It would also make it dimmable and temperature regulated with the drawback of perhaps 1-5% less runtime, depending on how you use it.

The regulator - PIR 1, yes it has got a name now - SEE HERE, main feature is that you can have unmatched battery/bulb voltage, as long as the battery voltage is higher though I suspect most people will use it like the application you describe - avoiding instaflashing.

To the 2C question. It does currently not fit inside the battery tube of a C-sized Mag but the production version might do that. We are working on it.

My "superior heat handling" is non-existant in the MonsterMag 1. It produces smoke from the switch hole after a minute because most heat is reflected backwards. The problem has been solved by a fellow CPFer but haven't been implemented yet.

I hope I answered all your questions...


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## brightnorm (Jan 8, 2006)

You did, thanks.

BN


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