# Anyone think it's about time for Headlamps to come out of the Dark Ages?



## matrixshaman (Dec 27, 2007)

I don't spend much time in the Headlamp forums but recently have had good reason to need one. I bought a Princeton TEC EOS a couple years ago (which I seem to have temporarily misplaced) so I was looking to get something new. I thought I'd be seeing the latest stuff running Cree Q5's, Rebels and Seoul LED's along with something better than AAA's. But it seems the EOS with it's 1 watt Luxeon is still one of the major contenders. :shakehead 
I'd like to see a Seoul, Cree Q5 or Rebel 100 running on a single CR123 or maybe 2 AA's but AFAIK nothing even close to this is anywhere to be found. Maybe I just haven't dug deep enough yet but from looking at this forum it seems everyone is still talking about lights I knew about a couple years ago.
Even the Chinese makers that crank out the new stuff so fast seem to be missing anything like this. Anyone else think it's time for some better headlamps?


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## KeyGrip (Dec 27, 2007)

Zebralight is developing a 1x123a cree headlamp to go with their current 1xAA headlamp,


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## ltiu (Dec 27, 2007)

Best bet is to buy something then mod it with the latest LED.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 27, 2007)

KeyGrip said:


> Zebralight is developing a 1x123a cree headlamp to go with their current 1xAA headlamp,



That's good news - hopefully that won't be too long


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## matrixshaman (Dec 27, 2007)

ltiu said:


> Best bet is to buy something then mod it with the latest LED.



I know that's a fairly good way to go but my modding time is severely limited right now (I seem to be able to get away with spending some time on the computer but if I bring out any tools the wife expects I need to be building our house).


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## JohnB (Dec 27, 2007)

matrixshaman said:


> That's good news - hopefully that won't be too long



Matrixshaman,
I hope all is well with you.
The technology is maturing. I am working with one company designing a new headlamp with 123's. You will see them very soon.
Right now FoxFury makes one of the brightest headlamps at 3 watts


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## jch79 (Dec 28, 2007)

First let me say that I'm with you, and want one of the biggies (PT, Petzl) to come out with updated LED's - I mean, the technology really has come a long way, and it's such an easy way to better their products!

However (gulp), we have to remember that 99% of the market (or more?) aren't aware of the specific advances in LED's. So although it's a huge deal to us (and rightly so!!) to see the advantages of the jump from an old Lux I to a Cree R2, the rest of the world (happily unaware) is fine with reading _*"1 WATT LED!"*_ and thinking they've got the good shtuff. :laughing:

Anyways, point is, the consumers don't know how much better/brighter/more efficient their lights could be, and the manufacturer seems to be alright with that, so we're left with what's available to the mass market! :shrug: Think Maglite LED's - what types of LED's are those? 

And I have to say, modding an EOS with a Seoul and a McR18 took me all of about 8 minutes - and it was literally the first time I've ever soldering ANYTHING!

My .02!

john


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## Kiessling (Dec 28, 2007)

It is not just the LED used. Also the batteries (CR123!) and the build quality as well as the interface. Nothing really good out there it seems.
With the new LEDs you can do amazing stuff at low currents --> smaller lights, cooler lights, longer running, brighter.

Not that I need one, but I sure want a good headlamp.

bernie


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## PhantomPhoton (Dec 28, 2007)

I agree, LED headlamps are atrocious at the moment. I have been on that soapbox for a few months now.
Luckily Coleman, of all companies, should have cree based stuff out in a month or so for headlamps. Of course there's the rumors of a Fenix headlamp still, but I don't put much stock in vaporware... not unless the lead designer of Fenix popped on th the boards and said they're making one.


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## jch79 (Dec 28, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> It is not just the LED used. Also the batteries (CR123!) and the build quality as well as the interface. Nothing really good out there it seems.



Uh-oh...  Captain Primary checked in! :welcome: :nana: Just kidding B-man...

I really like the 3xAAA self-contained headlamps like the PT Eos & Quad. The three AAA batteries, which are readily available just about anywhere in the world, provide enough power to suit most of my needs when camping/hiking/climbing, and certainly meet all of the expectations I have for what a headlamp should be, set aside the outdated LED's they all have. And lithium AAA's are available for cold weather uses, which certainly come in handy here in the Midwest!

I find the build quality and the interface simple, acceptable, and pleasant to use on both the EOS and Quad... and have taken both underwater (less than 10ft) with no problem! :shrug:

And, as we all know, since "two is one and one is none", carrying another light (be it a handheld or another headlamp) usually fills any voids left by the first light - or at least such is the case in my own uses! 

I don't think we'll see much else out there for CR123-based headlamps unless SF comes out with a headlamp to complement their helmet light. However, I'd welcome a 123-based headlamp provided it could accept Li-Ions (Bernhard's battery of choice, from what I hear!  ) While the Zebra light sounds like it has great potential, I still think the big headlamp companies you see in outdoor stores - Petzl, PT, Brunton, etc. - will stick to what they know - AAA and AA!  :shrug:

I suppose it's a "to each his own" situation, but this guy is satisfied with what's out there, although tweaks are always welcomed!

Back in my cave I go!






john


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## Kiessling (Dec 28, 2007)

Seems I built up a very stubborn "primary" reputation  :wave:

I am drawn to a CR123 headlamp for the simple reason of avoiding multiple battery types to carry along. And for size reasons. 

A small and simple CR123 headlamp that would be easy to carry and bomb proof would be just great.


Cpt. Primary


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## matrixshaman (Dec 28, 2007)

I guess my brain was tuned in tonight after starting this thread yesterday. I found an interesting deal at Wally world no less! This is the tiniest and lightest headlamp I've come across. And while still having a claimed main white LED power of 1 watt and 45 Lumens it has some very good throw and a built in flip over diffuser for real flood. It also has 2 red LED's and one blue LED. And all this runs on just one AA battery. You have your choice of the main white, 2 red or one blue at any one time. The diffuser also flips from the high power white LED over to the other side so it can diffuse either the red or the blue LED's. It's got a nice little rubber top switch that I think would still be fairly easy to use with gloves on since you can grab the lamp with a thumb and index finger easily. And it of course has tilt settings. All this including a battery for $18 and change. It uses an optic over the LED so I haven't yet been able to tell what it's using. I'll post some pics in a little bit. 
It didn't say anything about using NiMH in this light but I just tried a half charged NiMH Eneloop and it seemed just as bright as the AA Rayovac Alkaline included with it so it seems good to go on NiMH's too! The battery cap also has a little retainer on it so it can't get dropped. I think one of the coolest things about this though is the extreme light weight. 
Also with the optic it has it just might be a good candidate for a Rebel LED swap if not a Cree or Seoul.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 28, 2007)

JohnB said:


> Matrixshaman,
> I hope all is well with you.
> The technology is maturing. I am working with one company designing a new headlamp with 123's. You will see them very soon.
> Right now FoxFury makes one of the brightest headlamps at 3 watts



JohnB - thanks for the info - I'll check in at your web site regularly.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 28, 2007)

jch79 said:


> First let me say that I'm with you, and want one of the biggies (PT, Petzl) to come out with updated LED's - I mean, the technology really has come a long way, and it's such an easy way to better their products!
> 
> However (gulp), we have to remember that 99% of the market (or more?) aren't aware of the specific advances in LED's. So although it's a huge deal to us (and rightly so!!) to see the advantages of the jump from an old Lux I to a Cree R2, the rest of the world (happily unaware) is fine with reading _*"1 WATT LED!"*_ and thinking they've got the good shtuff. :laughing:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info on the easy EOS swap. Now if I can ever find my EOS I'll give that a try since I've already got a Seoul sitting around. You are right on with the reasons headlamps haven't progressed much for the lower end lights. Clueless general John Q. Public.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 28, 2007)

PhantomPhoton - good news about Coleman - I'll keep an eye out for that and hopefully it's not vaporware. 
KeyGrip - more good news - I'll watch for Zebralight too. 
Kiessling - Yes they can do better than what's around now. It did just occur to me though about using Lithium CR123's in a headlamp there may be one issue holding back manufacturers. Having a laptop blow up on your desk or even your lap is one thing. Having a cell phone blow up in your pocket or hand is another. But having a Li-Ion powered headlamp blow up right on your forehead could really be a bad experience. Perhaps they don't want to risk the potential harm a headlamp could do to someone by using Lithiums. I think I'd be okay with one that used a single CR123 though.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 28, 2007)

It's hard to get a real feel for how small this is from these pics. I own it and it doesn't even look small to me in the pics like it actually is. The battery compartment is barely bigger than the AA it holds and the part housing the LED's is about a 1/2 inch short than the battery compartment and about 3/4 inch deep by about 1" high at the widest part. 
Pulling most of the pics below - no use wasting bandwidth on something which already has 2 reviews here - I thought yesterday this might have been new and just out (little behind on headlamps). 
1st pic next to a Novatac for size comparison:


Diffuser on the 1 watt LED side now and 2 red LED's are on - they are not orange - just look that way in this pic. 






Couple more to follow...


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## matrixshaman (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm pulling off most of the pics below as I see now there is already a couple reviews on this light here 
Sorry for the poor pics


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## matrixshaman (Dec 28, 2007)

Just put it on the postal scale - 1.4 oz. without battery and 2.2 oz. with an Alkaline AA in it. Impressive! However after taking a closer look at it I found no screws or snap apart pieces - plastic welded at one point and the rest is molded - my guess anyway. It does say water resistant and it has an O-ring on the battery compartment so I think it's sealed in a way that does not make it good for a mod.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 29, 2007)

I guess this RayoVac has a Luxeon 1 watt in it per RayoVac's web site - and this is not that new as I have now seen another one in a pic here. Zebralight is looking interesting with it's Cree Q5 but not exactly what I'm looking for - just a massive flood light which I think might be nice for some purposes but I'd rather see a light like this Rayovac running a Q5 with the flip down diffuser so you can have flood or spot.


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## Alan B (Dec 29, 2007)

matrixshaman said:


> I guess this RayoVac has a Luxeon 1 watt in it per RayoVac's web site - and this is not that new as I have now seen another one in a pic here. Zebralight is looking interesting with it's Cree Q5 but not exactly what I'm looking for - just a massive flood light which I think might be nice for some purposes but I'd rather see a light like this Rayovac running a Q5 with the flip down diffuser so you can have flood or spot.


 
There is a long thread on this headlamp around CPF somewhere.

I really like my new Zebralight. It is a great floody light which is mostly what is needed, and it is nearly weightless.

My other favorite headlamp is the Petzl MYO XP. It is 3xAA and runs well on NiMH. I have modded it with U bin Seoul so it is up to date. It has an excellent diffuser, a very small head, a shelf to keep light off your glasses, three levels plus momentary turbo. The diffuser is really amazing converting a throwy beam to a flood.

-- Alan


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## matrixshaman (Dec 29, 2007)

Alan B - thanks for the info on the Petzl MYO XP - I'll look into that one. The Zebralight is sounding fascinating too even though it's not exactly what I want for a main Headlamp I may have to get one of those eventually. I'm also thinking of making my own as the basic concept seems fairly simple and not having a reflector would seem to make it a fairly easy build. I've got a nice chunk of Titanium tubing that is just big enough for CR123's too (although I might stick to AA for this). Just drop in a switch and one of the DX multi-mode modules for a couple bucks - Add Cree, Seoul or Rebel and I think I'd have basically what I want.


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## Alan B (Dec 29, 2007)

The Zebralight would be about perfect if it had a throw mode. In thinking about this, I've wondered if putting two high power LEDs on it would make the best combination. Make the tube longer and put the second LED in a small reflector or optic with a hotspot and plenty of spill. Adjust the electronics to have 5 settings - hi and medium on the throw LED, and hi, medium and low on the flood led. Of course it would be nice to have a red mode as well, but on one AA it gets a bit crazy. 

-- Alan


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## degarb (Dec 30, 2007)

JohnB said:


> Matrixshaman,
> I hope all is well with you.
> The technology is maturing. I am working with one company designing a new headlamp with 123's. You will see them very soon.



If you named the company, we could monitor the website for the product.

I would also add, please sell some high capacity rechargeable batteries with light, and make it have a full day mode at over 60 lumens (five levels preferred). Yes, and some good throw. Let the people unscrew something if they want a flood. And don't forget the heat sink.


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## Mark620 (Dec 31, 2007)

Yes it is about time that more high quality head lights are produced.
Hand held flashlights are not usable while doing anything that needs your hands....


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## JohnB (Jan 3, 2008)

degarb said:


> If you named the company, we could monitor the website for the product.
> 
> I would also add, please sell some high capacity rechargeable batteries with light, and make it have a full day mode at over 60 lumens (five levels preferred). Yes, and some good throw. Let the people unscrew something if they want a flood. And don't forget the heat sink.



We are working with Urnabeam in China to develop a CR123 headlamp .

Has anyone taken a look at the FoxFury PRO series?
Uses 6 cr123
500 Lumens
I was using one tonight and was very impressed with it.


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## Numbers (Jan 3, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Seems I built up a very stubborn "primary" reputation  :wave:
> 
> I am drawn to a CR123 headlamp for the simple reason of avoiding multiple battery types to carry along. And for size reasons.
> 
> ...


That's a perfect descriptoin of the headlamp I want too. 
Guess I will just keep waiting.


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## degarb (Jan 4, 2008)

JohnB said:


> We are working with Urnabeam in China to develop a CR123 headlamp .
> 
> Has anyone taken a look at the FoxFury PRO series?
> I was using one tonight and was very impressed with it.



Will try to google Urnabeam. Hope they can keep cost down to $100 or under. (Or offer several levels of Cree headlamps.) [Hope they rate them accurately (Lux, lumens, wattage, and battery life.), as I would never buy a online lamp without these numbers, since returning would be a hassle.]

On the Foxfury you tested, if you had one or two lamps What type of optics does it use-throw? Latest bin of Cree? 

Also my suggestion, for the foxfury price, they should include a small outlet (or two pins we can alligator onto) so we can drive lamp with toolbelt (winter coat) battery pack, or even tap into AC (with dc transformer) of a powertool.

(Also, I throw in a $3 25 ohm pot rheostat on any external battery packs. I find I use about 5 settings. Of course controllers, in theory, should be more efficient-just not sure if anyone has tested this.)


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## degarb (Jan 4, 2008)

JohnB said:


> We are working with Urnabeam in



Found your liotec website.

I will take one EMINENCE -L301 with a Cree r2 or q5.


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## degarb (Jan 4, 2008)

JohnB said:


> We are working with Urnabeam in



Found your liotec website.

I will take one EMINENCE -L301 with a Cree r2 or q5.


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## JohnB (Jan 4, 2008)

degarb said:


> Found your liotec website.
> 
> I will take one EMINENCE -L301 with a Cree r2 or q5.



Sunree maxes out at 1 Watt on thier headlamps. If you want to get into higher power FoxFury is a great solution.


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## degarb (Jan 4, 2008)

JohnB said:


> Sunree maxes out at 1 Watt on thier headlamps. If you want to get into higher power FoxFury is a great solution.




In theory, the goal should be low wattage (longer running times or smaller package), higher lumens and higher lux (with widening ability).


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## JohnB (Jan 4, 2008)

The PRO I have here uses 4 3 Watt Cree XRE LED's
It is the brightest I have used at 500 Lumens.

We just finished evaluating these products and now we are offering them on our site. We have been looking around for a headlamp solution and we feel that we have found it with FoxFury.


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## degarb (Jan 5, 2008)

4 three watt Cree's. That's gotta be bright..at least for a few minutes. {Would need a DC transformer and light extension cord or some external 120 amp hour battery pack before one could use it for a whole day.}

Bright, as in lux/throw? Bright, as in, at three hour markers 3,6 and 9 hours, after continuous running? 

So, the EMINENCE -L301 with narrow optic (which should still have a fair lux on low battery), once it has a Cree p4 or Up, has a far better appeal to me. (Battery pack, optics, and bulb efficiency= true brightness of a worklight.)

I could be wrong, but at $300, likely few will have tried this light to get the sample of people that will attest that this light is good for more than an hour bike ride, or in an EMS situation. 

Also, there does need to be limits on cost of a lamp, since they break, disappear, and have alternative solutions (use two lights--I use wrist light+headlamp+energizer nichia 3 AAA) I am thinking $75 is max I might spend on a light. Roughly 3 times price of a normal lamp. I suspect this is far more than the average light user, yet far less than many of the flashaholics here.


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## JohnB (Jan 6, 2008)

So, the EMINENCE -L301 with narrow optic (which should still have a fair lux on low battery), once it has a Cree p4 or Up, has a far better appeal to me. (Battery pack, optics, and bulb efficiency= true brightness of a worklight.)

The Eminence is going away from what I understand. The replacement is going to have the same specs with the Lumileds lamp and it will use one less battery. I don't expect them to come out with a Cree version in the immediate future.


There is some information and testimonials here from the FoxFury site for the PRO BIKE and PRO BIKE III. 
http://www.foxfury.com/testimonials/outdoor_bike_testimonials.htm#perfbike

Thanks
John


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## paulr (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't understand this desire for a 123-powered headlamp. A 123 cell has just about exactly the same weight, volume, and energy capacity as an L91 lithium AA, and cost about the same online (Lithium AA costs much less than 123 in brick and mortar stores). So even if you want to use lithium primaries you might as well standardize on AA size, which also lets you interoperate with rechargeables, alkaline primaries, etc. And AA's fit a lot more devices than 123's. Unless your GPS, digital camera, walkie talkies, etc. all also use 123's, you're going to end up with multiple battery types if you rely on 123 lights.


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## jzmtl (Jan 7, 2008)

I thought energizer hold patent to L91 lithium and they are the only one makes them, no?

So 123a is much more readily avaliable.


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## Rzr800 (Jan 7, 2008)

paulr said:


> I don't understand this desire for a 123-powered headlamp. A 123 cell has just about exactly the same weight, volume, and energy capacity as an L91 lithium AA, and cost about the same online (Lithium AA costs much less than 123 in brick and mortar stores). So even if you want to use lithium primaries you might as well standardize on AA size, which also lets you interoperate with rechargeables, alkaline primaries, etc. And AA's fit a lot more devices than 123's. Unless your GPS, digital camera, walkie talkies, etc. all also use 123's, you're going to end up with multiple battery types if you rely on 123 lights.


 
I don't understand it either; as it would seem that a more focused 2A version would have been the more logical next step and captured more of the overall headlamp market. You read the H30 thread and (imo) get the feeling that this next light is being designed around not the common guy out here needing a little more throw from his H50...but a lot of (rightfully picky) CFPers hung up on how their UI works or some kind of perceived battery 'might'. Frankly, I would have bought (2) 2A ZL's (flood/spot instead of just the H50) and would have probably been set for life had this not (seemingly) been the case.

No slam on ZL or CPFers whatsoever here (both good people)...simply an affirmation of what you stated earlier in regards to the beauty of 'standardization' in our EDC or even emergency related lives.


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## Rzr800 (Jan 7, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> I thought energizer hold patent to L91 lithium and they are the only one makes them, no?
> 
> So 123a is *much* more readily avaliable.


 
I think paulr prefaced his remarks with "even if" in relation to lithium primaries and I had absolutely no idea that this was true (thanks for sharing).

I do remember one of our American heros about to go back and fight for the world's freedom (2nd tour) :rock: up here on CPF recently shying away from the 123 lights because of battery availability issues in his unit as opposed to 2A. Whether he had access to L91s I have no idea (doubt it, for the most part) yet it didn't seem strange to me when he described a grab bin full of 2AAs at his disposal the last time he volunteered to do the brave job of keeping the world safe for the rest of us (you know, I just _love_ working the realities of the world we live in and the people who _keep_ it real into a post...maybe we should all do this a little more often to keep us in mind of who is truly out there keeping the peace).:twothumbs


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## Loomy (Jan 7, 2008)

I came here looking for the best buy in headlamps and am disappointed to see that the cheap+good designs of modern LED flashlights have not filtered into head lamps 




Rzr800 said:


> I do remember one of our American heros about to go back and fight for the world's freedom (2nd tour) :rock: up here on CPF recently shying away from the 123 lights because of battery availability issues in his unit as opposed to 2A. Whether he had access to L91s I have no idea (doubt it, for the most part) yet it didn't seem strange to me when he described a grab bin full of 2AAs at his disposal the last time he volunteered to do the brave job of keeping the world safe for the rest of us (you know, I just _love_ working the realities of the world we live in and the people who _keep_ it real into a post...maybe we should all do this a little more often to keep us in mind of who is truly out there keeping the peace).:twothumbs




I can't tell if that is sarcastic or not! Calling a war "the peace" is something else!


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## ltiu (Jan 7, 2008)

Rzr800 said:


> I do remember one of our American heros about to go back and fight for the world's freedom (2nd tour) :rock:


 
Ahem, excuse me, I think he is fighting for "America's" freedom for "Americans". Don't confuse America with the rest of the world.


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## Rzr800 (Jan 7, 2008)

Loomy said:


> I came here looking for the best buy in headlamps and am disappointed to see that the cheap+good designs of modern LED flashlights have not filtered into head lamps
> 
> I can't tell if that is sarcastic or not! Calling a war "the peace" is something else!


 
The last time I checked, a Q5 was both "modern and good LED design" in this year of our Lord 2008. 

As for the latter; no sarcsasm intended whatsoever, my friend....only pure unapoligetic pride in the need for this world to wage (yes, I said it) *war* on those who don't respect the need for peace in it...not to mention pride in those who volunteer to wage it for the rest of us.  (ie. the brave sailors in that straight yesterday who have been forced to stand between us and these people for decades now).


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## Kiessling (Jan 7, 2008)

Gentlement ... please leave the politics, wars and heroes out of this thread and shift the focus back to headlamps. Thanx. 
bernie


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## Rzr800 (Jan 7, 2008)

ltiu said:


> Ahem, excuse me, I think he is fighting for "America's" freedom for "Americans". Don't confuse America with the rest of the world.


 
America's freedom _is_ the rest of the world's freedom. 

Always has been; always will be and we honor those who have sacrificed in so many ways to make that statement a _fact_ by not being ashamed to come right out and say it up here or anywhere else on the planet.


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## Kiessling (Jan 7, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Gentlement ... please leave the politics, wars and heroes out of this thread and shift the focus back to headlamps. Thanx.
> bernie



Hello?


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## Rzr800 (Jan 7, 2008)

*quote=Kiessling:*
*Gentlemen ... please leave the politics, wars and heroes out of this thread and shift the focus back to headlamps. Thanx. *
*bernie*

Posted before I read this; sorry to have had to simply come out and say it (although I do encourage others to praise our servicemen and women every single chance that they can possibly get on this forum and am certainly not ashamed that I did).

No further commentary here; hope my H50 arrives today (cleared customs one day; was in West Michigan the next).


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## Rzr800 (Jan 7, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Hello?


 
Posted again while you were (unknowingly) poking me (sorry)


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## matrixshaman (Jan 7, 2008)

paulr said:


> I don't understand this desire for a 123-powered headlamp. A 123 cell has just about exactly the same weight, volume, and energy capacity as an L91 lithium AA, and cost about the same online (Lithium AA costs much less than 123 in brick and mortar stores). So even if you want to use lithium primaries you might as well standardize on AA size, which also lets you interoperate with rechargeables, alkaline primaries, etc. And AA's fit a lot more devices than 123's. Unless your GPS, digital camera, walkie talkies, etc. all also use 123's, you're going to end up with multiple battery types if you rely on 123 lights.


paulr - thank you for your comments. I think this has probably been discussed a lot before so I'm not sure there is a reason to discuss why there is a desire for this but since your brought it up there seems to be a lot of people do want a CR123 based headlamp. A couple personal reasons based on my usage are :
1 - I've got a bunch of CR123 based flashlights and I'm certainly not going to AA at this point. Nearly all my CR123 based lights are brighter than my same LED AA lights. While the may be close in overall power to AA the higher voltage I believe can drive the LED's to higher brightness with the boost circuits having to do less work.
2 - I want to use RCR123's - rechargeable and unlike NiMh they don't lose much charge over time (even Eneloops will lose more charge sitting than Li-Ion RCR's)
3 - CR123 based lights are going to be smaller (shorter) than AA and are usually barely any bigger in diameter. Some of my CR123 lights are smaller in diameter than AA and always shorter making them more carry friendly.
4 - The notion of standardizing everything to one battery just makes no sense to me. Maybe in TEOTWAWKI scenario that might be a consideration but we are flashaholics. Do you have only one flashlight or one kind of light?
I have all different types of batteries and am fine with that. Different sizes and different shapes for different purposes. CR123 means a shorter flashlight. Each battery has it's own pluses. I wouldn't carry a flashlight around my neck unless it had a battery like the Draco uses. 
Not everyone's 'desire' is going to be the same nor necessairly logical. It's just human nature.


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## NoFair (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm hoping someone will make a headlamp that can use P60 drop-ins:candle:

One, or two:devil:, drop ins will make for a bright easily upgradeable headlamp that can take a wide range of input voltages. Offer a couple of battery pack options and preferably use a good connector like the ones used in the RC community.

One basically need a holder for a P60 sized bezel or 2 and my perfect mid sized headlamp would be available

Until then my Apex using can use 4AAs, 2 cr123s/R123s or 2 18650s and is probably almost 150 lumens on high

Sverre


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## ltiu (Jan 7, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> 1 - I've got a bunch of CR123 based flashlights and I'm certainly not going to AA at this point. Nearly all my CR123 based lights are brighter than my same LED AA lights. While the may be close in overall power to AA the higher voltage I believe can drive the LED's to higher brightness with the boost circuits having to do less work.


 
+1. I go for CR123A lights if I want sheer output.

I have AA lights for the easily available batteries.


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## Rzr800 (Jan 7, 2008)

Maybe I'm just subconsciously worried that I have all 4 batteries types laying around also...and would be unable to resist hitting the  button after each new release.


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## stollman (Jan 7, 2008)

Petzl Myo XP

I put in a request last week to Petzl (Myo XP) and Princeton Tec (Apex) on whether they plan on updating their product with the newer LEDS. Petzl advised they plan on releasing a Myo XP with an upgraded LED that generates 80 lumens in March, 2008. The rep did not want to advise which LED they were going with, but it is good news. I'll give Princeton Tec another call this week and see if they have any updates.


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## paulr (Jan 7, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> paulr - thank you for your comments. I think this has probably been discussed a lot before so I'm not sure there is a reason to discuss why there is a desire for this but since your brought it up there seems to be a lot of people do want a CR123 based headlamp. A couple personal reasons based on my usage are :
> 1 - I've got a bunch of CR123 based flashlights and I'm certainly not going to AA at this point. Nearly all my CR123 based lights are brighter than my same LED AA lights. While the may be close in overall power to AA the higher voltage I believe can drive the LED's to higher brightness with the boost circuits having to do less work.
> 2 - I want to use RCR123's - rechargeable and unlike NiMh they don't lose much charge over time (even Eneloops will lose more charge sitting than Li-Ion RCR's) ...



Well ok, if you're not trying to standardize on a single battery type for everything, then sure, 123's in lights, AA's (etc.) in other stuff. I don't think there's enough data yet to say that rcr123a's (especially protected ones) lose charge more slowly than eneloops---I absolutely don't believe the marketing claims based on seeing how fast my cell phone and laptop batteries self-discharge. I do have to note that if you want to use rcr123a's (which are 3.6-4.2 volts) then that adds yet another requirement, since many lights use boost-only converters and aren't really set up to handle the higher voltage of rcr's.

I personally like AA and AAA rechargeables in everything for travel purposes, just bring one charger and a handful of cells intead of multiple chargers and/or buying batteries all the time. This is convenient even in the absence of TEOTWAWKI. I'd pay pretty big bucks for a cellular phone that uses AA's or AAA's in a natural way (no external kludges wired to the phone). I hate lithium ion in general, so I'd make this upgrade for reasons beyond the purely practical.


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## Rzr800 (Jan 8, 2008)

stollman said:


> "..Petzl advised they plan on releasing a Myo XP with an upgraded LED that generates 80 lumens in March, 2008...I'll give Princeton Tec another call this week and see if they have any updates.


 
Speaking of the dark ages (and I have probably said this before)...when are these headlamp manufacturers going to come out with their own attachment versions of this http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesNews?News=147 ...which should have been out with the first model ever made with plastic in it?

Maybe a company can indeed patent the entire 'concept'...but if not...somebody like Zebralight should be all over this with their own design and quick. ZL used the K.I.S.S principle to almost perfection in their accessories; yet a snap on/off with adjustment in the mount is one heck of a lot more handy/secure if possible within the above restraint.


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## stollman (Jan 8, 2008)

Fenix

I contacted Fenix yesterday about whether they have plans for a Headlamp, and they advised it is a "distant plan" and that they have not taked any recent action to pursue it. Sad news. As mentioned previously, Petzl is planning on releasing an upgraded Myo XP sometime in March 08. Still waiting to hear back from Princeton tec.

Chai


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## matrixshaman (Jan 8, 2008)

stollman - thanks for contacting the manufacturers and prodding them a bit. Maybe it will at least get them thinking more about this. I really think that if the headlamps were being made to the standards, the 'coolness factor' and the latest LED's that many of our flashlights are being made that headlamp sales would really take off.


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## stollman (Jan 10, 2008)

Princeton Tec, Petzl, Fenix, Black Diamond

After not returning a couple of emails I sent, I called Princeton Tec today asking them if they had plans on upgrading the Luxeom LED used in the Apex. They said "maybe within the next year". They said their light is putting out 80 lumens based on current tests, and that the runs times seemed pretty good for their current market. They mentioned as a side note, there are better LED solutions available other than the CREE or Seoul, but did not elaborate. So, in summary, I would not expect anything new LED upgrades for the Apex any time soon. Fenix isn't really working on a headlamp, and Petlz is planning on offering an upgraded Myo XP (80+ lumens) sometime in March, 08. Black Diamond offers the Icon, but I have read mixed reviews on it. For headlamps with a price tag under $100, I think this about covers all the top players.


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## matrixshaman (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks again for doing this. It amazes me that they don't get it. Many headlamp users need maximum runtime for caving and so on. For a new Cree or Seoul LED that cost probably less than the Luxeons they can double the runtime. Even if the LED cost more I'm sure users would jump on having a headlamp that doubles the runtime. You'd think the manufacurers would be all over this to be able to advertise 'New headlamp with double the runtime at the same brightness'.


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## half-watt (Jan 11, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> It amazes me that they don't get it. Many headlamp users need maximum runtime for caving and so on. For a new Cree or Seoul LED that cost probably less than the Luxeons they can double the runtime. Even if the LED cost more I'm sure users would jump on having a headlamp that doubles the runtime. You'd think the manufacurers would be all over this to be able to advertise 'New headlamp with double the runtime at the same brightness'.




+1. the first one to market with a Cree/SSC emitter, plus a decent design in other respects will likely "clean up" and make a killing. not sure that they will be able to keep them in stock or manufacture them fast enough.


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## MrValiant (Jan 19, 2008)

I am totally ready!! But I think it'll happen in the next year or two the prices on the OSRAM OSTAR LEDS will fall like the plasma and LCD TV prices did... just you wait 1000 lumen LED flashlights from China, Hong Kong and Korea will drop to $200 bucks fast. I can't wait... till then I'll learn make my own.  Isn't it exciting.


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## uk_caver (Jan 19, 2008)

I do wonder if there may be some new things coming fairly soon on the headlight front. Recently I picked up a stack of 3xAA Lux I-based headlights with a normal selling price of £25-£35 ($50-$70), which were being sold off for £7 ($14) each.
They're pretty solidly built - O-rings on battery case and headset bezel, 3-level lights running off a DC-DC converter, battery power meter, etc.
I wouldn't be too surprised if a newer upgraded model arrives once stock has been cleared.
Given the quantities that were being shifted at knock-down prices, it would seem odd if they were only going to be replaced with something no better.

(The lights are also a cinch for upgrading - probably ~10 mins to demount the old side-emitter from the star base and fix a Seoul, including the setting time for the thermal epoxy (during which the reflector can be Dremeled to fit).)


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