# LED tint Poll



## gunga

Hi all,

after trying out neutral leds (Cree 5A/5B/5C/4C tints and high CRI seouls) I find I can only accept warmer neutral tints on most of my lights. I see this come up often in other threads as well.

I am curious though, is this an actual trend or just a vocal minority voicing their (loud) opinions?

So, here's a poll to check. (I really liked the poll on the UI for 3 mode lights, glad to see L-M-H is popular and not just a figment of my imagination!).


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## LukeA

Your poll doesn't have warm Cree bins, only neutral.


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## gunga

I'm not sure if I can change polls, but I put high CRI seoul as an option vs Neutral Crees.

Let me know if you think these should be combined or not.


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## gunga

LukeA said:


> Your poll doesn't have warm Cree bins, only neutral.


 

Oh sorry, I've never tried really warm. Hmm, can I change a poll?

EDIT: changed wording to reflect neutral tints.


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## JeffInChi

Nice poll :thumbsup:

From what I've read, its seems that the "bluer" tints on some LED's is just the cheaper route to take for manufacturer's. As far as the "average" consumer, i've noticed that interest in the blue LED's tend to fade over time, like any other fad. Personally, I like a light tint that is just slightly warmer than "diamond" white, or diamond white itself 4500K - 5000K. 

I'm not sure what the advantages to having a blue light are, exactly, other than a "cool" factor. 

Just a suggestion, maybe you could add a Kelvin color temp chart to your poll as a visual aid?


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## Moonshadow

That's just the point though - it is _very_ subjective. What looks blue to one person, looks pure white to another. And what looks white to yet another can look yellow to someone else.

The really blue tints (like the E01) are thankfully history so it's important to compare like with like. 

A lot of people rave about warm tints - which is fair enough if that's what works for you, but - as with so many things in life - we are made _stronger_ by our differences, so let's leave emotive terms like 'fad' out of it.


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## gunga

Yes, tis true.

Like I said, I really favour neutral tints, but I've seen many ask for cool white too.

Oh also for those not sure, the warmer cool whites include:

Liteflux LF3XT in "warm", Lumapower D-mini Extreme, Olight M20 premium R2.


Many R2's (before anyways) were WH/WG.

I have purposely not included 5 mm leds like the GS etc. I don't want to overdo the poll and don't consider them a viable option for many cases.


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## HighLumens

Guys, my first (and so far only) flashlight experience is a neutral white (4C) and I like it.
Do you think I may ever like a cool white (WC-WD)? I ask this because it seems that there are more cool white flashlights than neutral-warm ones. The difference in power bin (Q3 vs R2) is not very important, 20% brighter is actually not that much noticeable.


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## mbw_151

I had Milky put a high CRI Seoul in my HDS. Using this light makes difficult visual tasks like color matching easier. For example, sorting out wire colors in multiconductor cables with this light goes quicker and with fewer errors. The Cree 5As are nice, but not quite as good. On the flip side 5As are relatively available in Quark lights, Zebra headlamps and Malkoff dropins. I have a couple of each and love them. I will never go back to "angry blue" LEDs.


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## paintballdad

I've become a warm/neutral convert overnight after trying out my first Q3-5A light. The colors and depth perception to me was just better compared to the cool white lights i have. I won't be getting rid of my cool white LEDs but if the option of a warm emitter is available, then that would be my choice.


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## NonSenCe

high cri is the one i have no xperience with. (yet) but i vote for warmer tints. 

pure white ones are not used much.. neutral like d10 r2 is used plenty.. but the warmer ones.. qwaat and lmini2 and raw are my most liked lights.. and dereelight c2h might come close if it only would run for little longer on high! hah.. 

i am tempted selling 5-10 of my lights that are "too white" and replace them with warmer tints..


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## gunga

paintballdad said:


> I've become a warm/neutral convert overnight after trying out my first Q3-5A light. The colors and depth perception to me was just better compared to the cool white lights i have. I won't be getting rid of my cool white LEDs but if the option of a warm emitter is available, then that would be my choice.


 

I guess that's the other thing, the poll may not reflect true opinion unless you've actually tried a neutral (Q3 5A etc) light.

Some may vote for cool white without ever trying Neutral.
Well, I should hope the pollsters have informed opinions!

:shakehead


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## HighLumens

I have not voted because, as I have already said, I have only 1 experience so I can't still judge.


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## gunga

Wow, only 1 light!?

Perhaps try something like a Maratac AAA. Inexpensive, good value, and you can always gift it if you don't like it.

I have a few, but am not happy that I have been uanble to open them for modding with neutral leds. They are nice lights though.

:scowl:


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## carbine15

gunga said:


> ...but am not happy that I have been unable to open them for modding with neutral leds. They are nice lights though.:scowl:



Try my thread! I think the Maratac is pretty easy to open.

By the way, "THE WARMER THE BETTER FOR ME"


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## gunga

carbine15 said:


> Try my thread! I think the Maratac is pretty easy to open.
> 
> By the way, "THE WARMER THE BETTER FOR ME"


 
Thanks Carbine, I posted in your thread for more info.

I was thinking of ordering some XP-E from cutter on 1 cm boards, is this too big for the Maratac?

Where did you get your XP-Es?


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## carbine15

gunga- I replied in my thread. We'll continue that tangent there. 

To the rest of you I still say *warmer* is better.


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## gbelleh

I'm now a big warm tint fan. After getting a neutral white Quark AA, and a warm LF2XT, my cool LEDs now look weird and unnatural by comparison.


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## DimeRazorback

Great poll, but I won't vote because I don't want to tread on any of my lights toes


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## MerkurMan

I've also recently become a warm tint convert. For the longest time, I loved the neutrality of my D10 R2, but after acquiring both a Zebralight and Quark with 5A tints, I don't think I'll ever buy another WC-or-cooler tint light. Even the WH (I think) R2 looks a little green.


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## parkschr

I too was a cool tint guy. For me it was all about lumens. Not any more! My friend recently had is L1 modded with a 5B Q4 and the color looked amazing. So I bought two 5B Q4's and put one in my CL1H and my DBS. The color rendering is awesome. I have a few cool tint lights left and they tend to wash things out.

Bring on more warm tints!


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## RichS

Nothing but warm tint for me! (after I get the rest of my lights modded..) come on R2 5B! I prefer the color of an over-driven incan, but who can live without some nice LEDs?? Incan lights are great but just not practical in many situations. Why live without either??


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## bhvm

I'd take best of both worlds!
neutral-warm (3500k) with High CRI 93% Seoul P4!


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## Illum

gee...hard decision

I prefer 5A for photography, WG or neutral for general illumination, and WC for sheer power indoors/outdoors. If I do have to be out about shrubbery, its incan from there


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## Sgt. LED

5B all the way man! :twothumbs


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## Mjolnir

I have never actually used a high CRI SSC LED, but as far as CRI goes, the closer it can come to the 100 of incans, the better. I do like the 5C tint in my L-mini II, but it still doesn't come close to the color rendering of my ROP.


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## Crenshaw

My favourite tints actually used to be vanilla white. Slightly warm, but still in cool white. My Tk10 has this, so did my Legolas (Scott chose the emittor for me)

but because there is SO much variation between cool bin tints, and more likely to be cool then my favourite tint.So i converted to 5As.

even my legoas has gone back to MilkyLabs.... :naughty:

Crenshaw


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## richardcpf

Can't believe most people chosed warm instead of cool. Maybe they are getting bit nostalgic with incans...

I hope that flashlight manufacturers don't ever read this poll.. its the only way to prevent cool tint led extermination.

Because I'm pretty sure that 60% of the people who gets warm white doesn't even know why it is better than cool white, they just get it because everybody else does so.


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## baterija

I picked the warm neutral. I actually prefer my color temp be more like the WG/WH but for right now in the Cree's that doesn't provide the color differentiation on a lot of things I look at that my 5A bin does. I haven't tried the High CRI SSC yet but suspect I would like the light quality if not the amount of light sacrificed to get it.

At this point there's no clear winner for me just trade offs. There's one clear loser in my mind though - the WC/WD bins. It's possible to get emitters with all the output they offer while sliding toward a little lower color temperature I prefer.


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## 2xTrinity

> Can't believe most people chosed warm instead of cool. Maybe they are getting bit nostalgic with incans...
> 
> I hope that flashlight manufacturers don't ever read this poll.. its the only way to prevent cool tint led extermination.
> 
> Because I'm pretty sure that 60% of the people who gets warm white doesn't even know why it is better than cool white, they just get it because everybody else does so.


I have used several bins of Cree LEDs ranging from WC (6500k+) to 8B (2600k, or warmer than most incans). I like 5A (4000k) the best by far. I also prefer a color temp 4000k for general indoor lighting as well, so long as the CRI is decent (I don't of course prefer crappy old school cool white fluorescent tubes from the 60s to anything, regardless of the color temp). My opinion has nothing to do with incan nostalgia, as I actually prefer this over my 7x bin LEDs which look VERY much like incans. This is just what I happened to like most in most situations after carrying the different types of lights for a while.


I actually fear that as LEDs are adapted to be used in home lighting that fixtures in neutral white are made available, and not just the warm (read below 3500K) incan-like colors as those are what people are used to. IMO the best case would be to see a range of options (warm, neutral, and cool ALL widely available for people with different preferences)


Re: original poll. I went with neutral leds (Cree 5A/5B/5C/4C tints). or between 3500-5000k color temp. High CRI is icing on the cake but not quite as important to me. 

I will not buy a new light unless it comes with a neutral LED, or an emitter swap is very easy to perform. 



I have also tried the High CRI SSCs. While I do prefer those even more as far as their color rendition properties, the efficiency loss compared to the neutral Crees is usually not worth it for me. It's past the point of diminishing returns -- neutral LED compared to most cool LEDs is IMO a small efficiency drop for a large color improvement. Neutral to a high CRI neutral is a large efficiency drop compared to the marginal improvement. I do have some high CRI LEDs in big lights where runtime is effectively unlimited anyway, though (4 days vs 2 days constant ontime is irrelevant -- I will never run it that long at a time).


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## TooManyGizmos

I voted ...... but I think most won't bother to.

I think most members are just plain tired of the redundant controversy and explaining their position.

Most got interested in LED's because they were searching for whiteness of the beam .(nobody liked blue, green, purple, pink or "low battery" yellow)

Most people's preference won't be changed.

And for most I don't think it's so much about more brightness in lumens or even rendition of colors . I think most are just amazed at the whiteness after living with yellow previously and not having any other choice.

I don't know why they make so many various color tints of LED's ... or what they are intended for or used for . To me , only a very few bin tints are appropriate for flashlights , since I'm not looking for a romantic glow out of mine .

.


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## MWClint

i voted high cri seouls. I've converted most of my lights to these leds in various tints. 
of the 50 or so i've dealt with ive seen red, peach, brown, blue and green hues in the hotspot. 
they are not strong tints..i consider them almost like pastel tints.

The pink/reddish ones are my favs and ive hand picked for my small pocket lights..
portrays excellent skin tones. carribean, pacific, ex10, rainier.
i had 4 brown ones and put them in the barbolight...very incanish..awesome outdoors. 
the bluish hotspot'd ones i put in the lower power bathroom finders..water
and white porcelin and walls look pretty sharp with these. 
the general purpose lights get the slight greenish hues..like a D20, ra twisty.

the current batches of cool rebel 100's and K2's that are circulating the 
forums are decent, they appear like a linen white with very little tint in any direction,
and dont have the cree rings nor have the tinted corona of the seouls.

cree wc arent bad by themselves, but are very blue when around any ambient lighting or a high cri seoul p4. 
IMO, WD,WG and WH are downright nasty..the tints 
are much stronger green than the pale, pastel like seoul tints.

the neutral rebels and cree neutrals are very nice outdoors, but indoors.. not as nice as the high cri seouls.

overall i think the neutral high cri seouls work well both indoors
and out... especially the batch of T1 seouls from Tekno Cowboy...these
are the coolest of all my high cri leds. probably the closest we'll see to
the unobtainable SUN tint.


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## smopoim86

I voted neutral cree. 
I prefer the high cri ssc for color/tint, but the loss in output is generally more than i can tolerate.


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## gunga

Wow, almost 100 votes, and we're running at around 50% neutral cree, 25% cool white. Quite glad to see that, based on my preferences.

I do appreciate people's responses. I know many may be tired of rehashing, but the idea is to get a real idea of what people like, not just the same 5 people posting on 10 different threads about how their preference is better than everyone else.

I like neutral, and I'm sure I've posted about it ad nauseum. I just wanted a poll to try and get a real guage of what people like, rather than what might be popular among the vocal few like me!

:devil:

Perhaps this is a good place to voice your opinion, all in one clearly defined place instead of in bits and pieces all over everyone else's threads.


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## Henk_Lu

I voted for the neutral whites, as they are definitively the winners agains the cool whites for me.

Perhaps it's a personal thing, but I like warm light and can't stand cool light. At first, the "normal" LEDs seemed superiour, very bright, a huge jump upwards from the old incan Mags. Nowadays, if I compare my neutral white Quarks to my Q5-modded Mags, the Quarks are clearly my winners.

I must admit that I still buy cool white, in form of an SST50 or Quark XP-G though, imagine why... 

Now, I have a whole other thing coming : A Nichia 083B high CRI. After I first thought to know what that is, I am currently completely lost and must wait another day or two to switch it on. If my assumptions are right, that one will win over the neutral-whites. While neutral whites are powerfull enough today and as manufacturers are beginning to put them in some (limited) lights, the high-CRI are totally rare and their output wouldn't theoratically still be enough for most people.


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## Foxx510

I'd just like something that is actually white, not white with a hint of random unpredictable color thrown in.


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## Henk_Lu

Foxx510 said:


> I'd just like something that is actually white, not white with a hint of random unpredictable color thrown in.



Then you need a Ra Clicky guaranteed tint...



> The LED produces a calibrated 140 lumens of cool white output. The tint is considered to be the most pure white possible and is guaranteed to having a white color that lies close to the Planckian black body radiator line in the range of 0.30 to 0.33 on the x-coordinate on the CIE-1931 Chromaticity Diagram. The LED and reflector together produce a slightly wider beam pattern that is preferred for closer work.



The cost is only 40$ (plus the Clicky). I don't know if any other flashlights are availble with that guarantee.

The one you want is still a cool white however, a warm white will always be on the yellowish/reddish side.


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## ZMZ67

My vote goes to the neutrals.Some of the slightly warm cool LEDs do pretty decent but not as well as the neutrals.I have no experience with the high CRI LEDs so I dont know if I would prefer them over the neutrals but it is not likely if they are significantly less efficient.Incandescent does the best outdoors but it is inefficient compared to what LEDs can do.This is all according to what works best for me but I can see I am not alone.BTW it has nothing to do with nostalgia or sentiment.Initially I liked the cool whites better, they are more impressive indoors but details seem to wash out when I take them outside.


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## MWClint

this is one of my favorite pics..i think this comparison shot speaks for itself.
Neutral Rebel 100(Peak Eiger) vs Cree Q5 WC(LD01) in the back woods.











yes, the overall light output is lower..but you can see so much more detail with the warmer leds,
that the lower output is really not an issue.


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## Moonshadow

OK, but the cool LED shot is overexposed in the centre: it's not surprising that there is more detail in the correctly-exposed shot. Also, what was the white balance on the camera ?

It would be interesting to have a daylight control shot: for example, are the rocks in the foreground really as brown as the upper shot makes them look, or are they actually more stone-coloured as in the lower shot ?


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## DimeRazorback

I'm still thinking about this... can't choose.

At heart I still love pure white led's, as the pure white light idea is what attracted me to them originally...

So hard to choooooooooooooooooooooose!!


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## kramer5150

I would suspect some of the poll could be skewed. Theres the possibility that a percentage of the voters have not really owned all the tints listed, being that cool white WC tints are whats mostly available.

I have mostly WC tints, a couple 5A tints and they are OK but not my favorites. The WC tints are to pale and the 5A tints I have are just a little too brown... especially after 5 minutes and they have warmed up from use.

I have recently acquired a Zebralight H501 which is slightly warmer than cool white tint and it is my favorite.
My recently acquired ITP A3-AAA is also much warmer than my cool white lights and it is very enjoyable to see/use.


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## xenonk

My preference is really just a compromise. I'd prefer high CRI but I find they lose too much output. Warm tints also lose a lot of output and the difference in use between them and neutral doesn't seem as dramatic as between neutral and cool. Neutral has the right tint for me while being able to stay at a reasonably high flux bin.

I could easily change my tune if someone manages to make a high CRI emitter from the XP-G's die before I get too accustomed to their higher output at low CRI.



gunga said:


> Oh sorry, I've never tried really warm.


sku 17592 over at DX supposedly has a ~3000K warm tint P3, though I haven't tried one.


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## divine

I think I prefer a warm leaning Luxeon K2, I believe it renders colors better than a 5A/5B, but the 5A/5B's are exteremely common and the K2's are not very common at all.

I voted 5A/5B...

The High CRI 083 and High CRI Seouls and neutral GDP's are nice, but you take a noticeable drop in brightness. They are very good for certain things, though.


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## Wade

MWClint said:


> this is one of my favorite pics..i think this comparison shot speaks for itself.
> Neutral Rebel 100(Peak Eiger) vs Cree Q5 WC(LD01) in the back woods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, the overall light output is lower..but you can see so much more detail with the warmer leds,
> that the lower output is really not an issue.


 

That to me is real world - the warmer lights do let you see more detail, contrast, better depth perseption, and color. I do a lot of running around in the woods and night - warmer is where it is at. :candle:


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## sORe-EyEz

hmmm, i do not own lights with all the tints variations to choose, anyone (who has them all) kind enough to do control shots for comparison? :wave:


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## Dark Laser

Neutral white rocks :rock:
Neutral is - well, neutral, it is an "allround-tint". For some puposes, warm white is even better (it sounds strange, but when I'm tired, I prefer very much the warm beam of my good old MiniMag ). Neutral may be a compromise, but it is the tint I prefer most at the moment.

Sure, the cool white color is (or was? I'm not sure if we now live in a new era; look at the poll results) typical for LEDs. But the advantages of warmer tints are simply overwhelming. Better color rendition is the most important point. This explains why 5000 "neutral-white lux" are more than 5000 "cool-white lux"; same with the lumens, too (as long as the target isn't a white wall, though).


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## fixitman

My favorite overall tint so far is a 3A. Very nice indoors, and pretty good outdoors. My 5A lights are better outdoors, but are kinda ugly when white wall hunting :nana:


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## Zeruel

Wade said:


> That to me is real world - the warmer lights do let you see more detail, contrast, better depth perseption, and color. I do a lot of running around in the woods and night - warmer is where it is at. :candle:



What are you doing running around in the woods at night? 
It's hard to believe the rocks are yellowish green in your real world.


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## NonSenCe

dimerazor.. umm your flashlights have toes? damn i aint got one myself! *envy* hahahhahah 

i have 3 buddies that i am turning into flashlights.. 

one is pure white nut, brighter is better and white is good!
one is just amazed by the functions and couldnt care less how the tint looks. 
one is turning into warmer tints now that he has seen some leds are not showerhead blue tint lights anymore.

and i think the 4th that still has my warmtint Lmini2 is liking it too much. i think i must pry it off his hands.


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## LEDninja

I do not have lights with all the tints so it is just guesses for me.

I picked HIGH CRI because I like wide spectrum lighting but do not have one to confirm I really like it.

i am used to incandescent, warm white CFL, warm white LED household bulbs. The last CFL I got was too yellow, equivalent I guess to a 7b or 7c tint. When I paired it with an LED warm white whose tint is almost identical to my 5A Dereelight I got a very pleasing tint. I would like to try a 6b or 6c tint. I prefer more yellow to more pink which is why I left out 6a/6d.

My actual favourite tint is ye olde 3*Luxeon TWOJ in an Elektrolumens My Little Friend. I also like the rebel 80 in my L1T v2.0. Somehow I prefer the Lumiled tints over the Cree tints.

I prefer something warmer than pure white so WO over XO, WD over WC. I picked WH over WG, afraid the WG would be too puke green.

My 5A Dereelight seem to be a dirty brown (could be my off white walls) indoors. My Little Friend's TWOJ beat it on the grass out back. It is good for a walk in the woods but I live downtown, only used it for 1/2 hour during last year's CPF GTA get together.

Still my EDCs are Millermods WH and EZAAw (5B?) and a L1T v2.0 RB80 next to my pillow. Creamy white.


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## Marlite

I do appreciate people's responses. I know many may be tired of rehashing, but the idea is to get a real idea of what people like, *not just the same 5 people posting on 10 different threads about how their preference is better than everyone else.*

*I like neutral, and I'm sure I've posted about it ad nauseum.* I just wanted a poll to try and get a real guage of what people like, rather than what might be popular among the vocal few like me!

*:devil:*

*Perhaps this is a good place to voice your opinion, all in one clearly defined place instead of in bits and pieces all over everyone else's threads.[/QUOTE]*

Gunga, your last paragraph seems to invite only the neutral opinion to support this thread as they are the same "5 people posting in 10 different threads".* instead of in bits and pieces all over everyone else's threads* *.[/QUOTE]*

:sigh: Bolded by me, glad to see you are aware this was nearing an obsession and we can return to the lesser addiction of Flashaholism. 

I did vote for a wide range from WC to Q3 5A. My tolerance ends at EO1's bleeping blue/purple . Greenies are also not acceptable.

Neutral means there is no leaning to one side or the other so how does Q3 5A qualify as neutral? Shouldn't pure white be neutral? 

Illumination being superior to tint, a candle flame in total darkness is always acceptable.


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## orbital

Marlite said:


> ......Neutral means there is no leaning to one side or the other so how does Q3 5A qualify as neutral? Shouldn't pure white be neutral?
> 
> Illumination being superior to tint, a candle flame in total darkness is always acceptable.



+1

Exactly when did a 5A become neutral??,... *Neutral should be pure white. 

*That said, for color accuracy with acceptable throw characteristics, a warmer WH tint wins for Cree,
but some of the best beams you'll ever see come from SSC.


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## bshanahan14rulz

limited experience, but I do quite enjoy the tint of 5A and 5B. Wish I had a SSC high-cri, though


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## uplite

It seems to me that the *warm-neutral* LEDs give much *better contrast* than the cool whites.

I haven't looked up any studies, but it kinda makes sense. After all, driving or shooting glasses (with yellow-orange lenses) improve visual contrast by filtering out the _blue_ wavelengths.

Cool LEDs might be _technically_ a smidgen closer to natural sunlight, but they still have huge spectrum gaps compared to sunlight. Given a choice, I'll take the parts of the spectrum that seem to work better with my eyes. :thumbsup:

The warm-or-cool issue also runs deep into our brains. For many thousands of years, humans associated the red-yellow spectrum of a fire with safety, warmth, and food. Yellow glow = survival = good. :bow: It's very likely that we have evolved to be deeply, emotionally attracted to these wavelengths, regardless of their technical benefits. 

-Jeff


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## EV_007

I like the warmer tints myself. Wish the output was as "bright" as the cooler tints. 

Although I still like playing around with the cooler tints for the cool factor. When I show non-flashoholics the warm and cool lights, they always pick the cooler ones since it appears brighter. 

I have yet to try the CRI Seouls. Drop in efficiency is kinda bummer though if that's the case.


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## yowzer

The poll needs to allow multiple votes. Personally, I've found that I like neutral white outdoors, cool white indoors...


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## saabluster

gunga said:


> Perhaps this is a good place to voice your opinion, all in one clearly defined place instead of in bits and pieces all over everyone else's threads.


Uh no. No offense but there are problems with the poll. First off the question is "Please choose your prefered LED tint". For what it's worth I put High CRI SSC but... High CRI is not a *tint*. 

Problem 2- People are avoiding the high CRI based on lumen output not *tint* which is the question at hand.
Problem 3- People who vote and have not tried all the choices at hand do not have an informed opinion. 
Problem 4- These threads always seem to be chock full of newbie nonsense like "Shouldn't pure white be neutral?" There is no such thing as pure white!

Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.:shrug: Don't take it too seriously OK.:thumbsup:


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## hoongern

I think a lot of it also has to do with the kinds of lights you grew up with. For me - I grew up with fluorescent lighting, and am used to seeing colors with that tint, never a single incan, and because of that, I tend to prefer cooler tints.


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## Darkspark

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MWClint* 

 
this is one of my favorite pics..i think this comparison shot speaks for itself.
Neutral Rebel 100(Peak Eiger) vs Cree Q5 WC(LD01) in the back woods.











MWClint - this is a genius example of why i too am impressed with the neutral white emitters on my Quarks. Just got my QAA tonight and it's superb. I will be on the lookout for more neutrals in the future. In my eyes they just bring out more natural color contrasts and detail. :thumbsup:


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## jtr1962

hoongern said:


> I think a lot of it also has to do with the kinds of lights you grew up with. For me - I grew up with fluorescent lighting, and am used to seeing colors with that tint, never a single incan, and because of that, I tend to prefer cooler tints.


I really think this has almost _everything_ to do with it. I grew up with mostly incands (not much else available for home lighting in the 1960s) but spent a lot of time outdoors. And spent most of my indoor time under the cool-white circline flourescent in the kitchen. By the mid-1980s most of the house was converted to linear fluorescents (cool white T-12 tubes which were replaced in the 1990s with new fixtures using 5000K high-CRI T8s). In any case, between the sunlight and flouro light, cooler tints just look normal to me. I imagine someone who has not spent much time out in the sun, and had only incands indoors, would strongly prefer warmer tints.

Like a lot of our preferences, I tend to think preference for light type is shaped by cultural and environmental factors on top of genetics. The genetics give a centerpoint, and the cultural/environmental factors account for the deviations from that centerpoint. Consider that our eyes evolved under a ~5500K star. OK, I'll grant that sunlight can vary from around 3000K right around sunset to 5500K directly overhead at noon on the equator, but for most of the day it remains above 4500K. And starlight/moonlight averages in the 4000s. So just going by evolution we should all prefer cooler tints. But that's obviously not the case. Something else is at work here, and that something is likely what we were exposed to growing up, and also what is the norm for the culture we live in.

Another thing to note regarding LED tints is that they are not labeled consistently as the rest of the lighting industry does:

2700K: soft white
3000K: warm white
3500K: neutral white
4100K: cool white
5000K: sunlight white
6500K: daylight

Basically in the LED world "warm" can be as high as 3500K, neutral ranges from the high 3000s to around 5000K, and cool is anything over 5000K. So the results of this poll seem to suggest a convergence of preference around the mid 4000s, which is about the average for neutral white LEDs, but mid 4000s is considered "cool" by the lighting industry. Nevertheless, I think the LED system actually has it right. The middle of the road neutral tints or warmer cool tints, both of which are in the mid 4000s, or at worst 5000K, actually really do appear neutral to most viewers. Neutral in this context means neither yellow nor blue tinted when viewing the color of the light. And interestingly, the majority preference here is exactly around where the average CCT of sunlight during the day falls. So biology may indeed play a predominant role here, but the outliers in preferences (i.e. warm white or very cool white) could easily be accounted for by culture and environment. Or also by differences in our eyes (the lens of the eye yellows with age, hence CCT preference should rise as one gets older).

I'm also sure this won't be the be all/end all poll for this topic. It seems to come up with some regularity around here, and _always_ generates spirited discussion. :devil:


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## tolkaze

Wow, after reading about what most people are saying, I have just ordered my first neutral white... I was initially concerned about slight lack of lumen output, but now I am really interested in taking this one for a good thorough run through


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## sORe-EyEz

i voted for slightly warmer cool white. 

strangely even cat urine green of my Gerber LX1 (lux LED) gives a realistic colour rendition. :ironic:


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## JeffInChi

sORe-EyEz said:


> hmmm, i do not own lights with all the tints variations to choose, anyone (who has them all) kind enough to do control shots for comparison? :wave:




Good idea


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## mr.snakeman

One of the-to me-most pleasing tints I have found is obtained by tail standing both my different tinted (R2, Q4) LF2XTs right next to each other-not too warm, not too cold, just right ( this means that I must walk around with them taped together to keep this nice color :sigh: ). I wish I knew what this tint would be called and if it is available anywhere?


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## TooManyGizmos

I think the two pictures are a little biased in favor of the top one , due to beam focus properties .

Bottom one has intensely tight concentrated hotspot with no spill beam at all to show surroundings .

Naturally we would be biased in favor of the light with brighter spill beam which exposes more surroundings than the other . In a way , it just seems like a dimmer v/s brighter comparison shot with one having less spill beam brightness .

Tint preference could be better determined if the same model of flashlight were used , with same battery , LED type , and same reflector ...... but with differing tints of the same LED .

I would prefer better controlled comparison methods be used to help me decide on the advantages of one tint over the other.

I don't think these pic's tell the same story.
One has punctuation in different places .
One is told softer .......... the other louder .

( I'm not trying to talk you guys out of the tints you like .
It's all just a matter of preference for each of us.
I wish we could all special order our tint preference in ALL lights. )
.
____________________________________________________


MWClint said:


> yes, the overall light output is lower..but you can see so much more detail with the warmer leds,
> that the lower output is really not an issue.


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## Blindasabat

I have tried all the options mentioned. Many used extensively. I have a High CRI Seoul in my Novatac, have a Q3 3A modded KX1, a Q3 5A Malkoff and Quark, an R2 WG NC EX10, and apparant warmer (V1) Lux3, etc.

Cool tints are OK most of the time, but I began to notice and favor (and discuss) what we used to call warmer tints several years ago when I got a V1 tinted Lux3 Nuwai Q3 (the name of the light, not the tint) which is similar to a WH Cree tint. It blew away X0 tints (the equivalent to Cree WC) outdoors. I upgraded my PT EOS headlight to V1 tint and still use that for camping. 

So I think WG/WH work well to get some of the benefit of Neutral (3A to 5D?) outdoors with R2 level output, but I really like Cree 4B, 4C, 5B, 5C (notice not as much 5A, 5D) or Luxeon Rebel & K2 Neutral tints for indoors and outdoors.

Generally, with WC, you can get stil get overly cool and blue, which I really dislike. Non-specified cool tint lights are a lottery, but if Warm is specified, you know you will get a light without all the blue.


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## gunga

Wow! 1400 views, almost 200 responses.

Good feedback too!

46% neutral cree
25% cool white

Perhaps lighting manufacturers should consider warm/neutral tint options a bit more...


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## Blindasabat

Tint comparison pictures either have to be with both lights diffused, or from the exact same emitter type and optics - so with the same beam.
And of course the camera exposure should be the same with white balance locked to daylight.


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## orbital

gunga said:


> Wow! 1400 views, almost 200 responses.
> 
> Good feedback too!
> 
> 46% neutral cree
> 25% cool white
> 
> Perhaps lighting manufacturers should consider warm/neutral tint options a bit more...



+

Yep,
hopefully manufacturers take a look at this thread and see almost 65% people prefer WH tint or warmer,...


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## Blindasabat

Good Poll!
Odd how the two most popular options surround the WG/WH (tint-wise)which I think a lot of people would actually like a lot. I can deal with a WH a lot more than a WC. WH actually gives you some (just some) of the benefit of Neutral tints like more depth perception outdoors. WH has real benefits over WC to me. I would be happy if WH replaced WC as the most popular general light tint.


gunga said:


> Wow! 1400 views, almost 200 responses.
> 
> Good feedback too!
> 
> 46% neutral cree
> 25% cool white
> 
> Perhaps lighting manufacturers should consider warm/neutral tint options a bit more...


Yes, they should.


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## cheetokhan

TooManyGizmos said:


> Most got interested in LED's because they were searching for whiteness of the beam



I initially liked LED lights for the improved beam pattern. I never liked the harsh, blue light they produced, but I lived with it. 
Then I found CPF and discovered GOOD LED lights. Smooth beam without the harsh 'cool' light.


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## cheetokhan

Over in the *Neutral-White Quarks* thread, desertrat posted these photos comparing cool and warm emitter lights. I hope he doesn't mind me borrowing his pictures because these really show off the difference.

Fenix P2D Q5





Quark 123 Warm


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## Moonshadow

Again, we'd need to know what the colour balance on the camera was.

And I'd be interested whether the background is really brown or not.


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## cheetokhan

Moonshadow said:


> Again, we'd need to know what the colour balance on the camera was.
> 
> And I'd be interested whether the background is really brown or not.



Those pictures show exactly what I see when I compare my warm and cool tint lights. For me, it's not so much the actual colors, as the contrast and detail. *I *think the warm emitter lights make things softer and easier to look at. The cool lights make things seem harsh to _*my*_ eyes.
I highlighted the important words above; I and my. I understand that other people see things differently and that's perfectly OK with me. I have a good supply of Q3-5A emitters in my parts drawer so I can have the light I want


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## xenonk

Moonshadow said:


> Again, we'd need to know what the colour balance on the camera was.


EXIF info on the pictures notes that white balance was set to auto. Manual exposure, 1/60 sec, f/13, ISO 400.

The cell looks like it's sitting on a mossy stone.


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## Black Rose

I like cool white.

I think it is simply because the cool white gives the impression of more light.


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## xenonk

jtr1962 said:


> So just going by evolution we should all prefer cooler tints. But that's obviously not the case. Something else is at work here, and that something is likely what we were exposed to growing up, and also what is the norm for the culture we live in.


My preference for warm tint LEDs actually has little to do with the tint itself. It's because the emission spectrum covers reds and browns better while toning down green and blue to something a little less overpowering. This gives me better contrast and lets me see things more clearly. For cool white I like WH and to a lesser extent WC, but with low CRI the actual use doesn't work out as well for me.

It's less that I chose the tint and more that the tint was a consequence of the emission spectrum I chose. I prefer a 5B tint over 5A, but this is just me being picky and liking yellow over pink. I find either actually works just as well. 

Tint would be even less of an issue with a high-CRI emitter, in which case I'd prefer either cool white or golden yellow.


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## 1wrx7

I voted high CRI Seoul's because they are the only warmer emitters I own. As someone else already stated CRI and tint are two different things. All that being said, I've been able to use lights with all of the emmiters listed in the poll... and a few that aren't. They all look good untill you compare them to one another. Then you see differences. Not that one is better than the other... but everyone is different, and so is the task at hand. I'm just glad we have a place where we can find more options for this wierd little hobby we all have

Latest example... last night I comared my newly modded Aleph3 head with three high CRI Seoul's from Tecnocowboy... to DaFabricata's Aleph3 with three Q3-5A Cree's. By themselves each looked great. Next to each other the Cree's looked pink... and the Seoul's looked green:shrug: Using the modded A3 head right now by itself shows no signs of green.... just great looking light. I'm sure if I had the Cree's I woudn't be seeing pink.... just great looking light:shrug:

YMMV


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## gunga

Well at 228 votes, we are at 46% neutral cree, 26% cool white, 17% warmish cool white, and 10% High CRI seoul.

These are great and valuable results. I know it's all about choice, but based on these results, doesn't it make sense to at least have 1/2 your first production run available in neutral tints?

They seem to be the popular option here (tho yes, perhaps the results are still skewed).

I do find neutral tints much more pleasant outside and on skin tones. I guess they are not as impressive on a white wall, but what non-flashaholic gies white wall hunting?


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## Xe54

I now have two Quark AA Neutral whites, and a Dereelight pill with a 5A. The 5A is quite nice, a bit less yellow than the Quarks, which perhaps are 5B. I tend to prefer purplish hues rather than green while white wall hunting.

One early morning I went with the Quark Neutral to look for some slate blue pants in the closet, and I couldn't tell the darn color at all from a gray pair. A cool white, OTOH, reveals the colors better, despite being distorted in the blue direction. At least I can tell brown is brown vs. yellow, and slate blue is blue vs. gray.

Compared to a 4300K fluorescent tube, the Neutral white and 5A LEDs seem significantly more warm, perhaps only due to the spectral difference which makes the CRI of the LED poor compared to the tube even though they both map to the same CCT. What I would much rather see as a result of this experience is a very slightly warmer cool white, that can still render blue satisfactorily. Something like a WJ, 3A, or 3D in Cree's bin scheme.

I've actually thinking lately that what would be most pleasing is an EDC sized Xe arc lamp with its gorgeous 5000K full spectrum. Unfortunately, they aren't very efficient, and don't scale down to the sub 50W range effectively.

Anyone EDC-ing a Maxabeam?


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## Dude Dudeson

I prefer whatever is the whitest and brightest.

I have no need for great CRI.


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## jtr1962

xenonk said:


> My preference for warm tint LEDs actually has little to do with the tint itself. It's because the emission spectrum covers reds and browns better while toning down green and blue to something a little less overpowering. This gives me better contrast and lets me see things more clearly. For cool white I like WH and to a lesser extent WC, but with low CRI the actual use doesn't work out as well for me.


Thinking about this a bit more, it's not surprising this poll is getting skewed in favor of warm/neutral tints. The reason is obvious-there are currently no high-CRI cool emitters being made. In fact, in some threads I see it becoming an urban myth where some people think you _need_ to have a warmer tint to get good color rendering. Not true, just high-CRI cool emitters are not currently available. Why I don't know, but this fact nevertheless presents users with the dilemma you mentioned. Either give up some color rendering, or give up a tint which is closer to daylight. Now if high-CRI, high CCT emitters existed, it would be interesting to see the results. Based on the comments, I'm beginning to suspect color rendering is the primary reason for choosing a warmer tint over and above color temperature. I'll also point out that outside of the high-CRI Seouls and Nichia 083, most warm and neutral emitters only have CRI in the high 70s (compared to low 70s for cool white). So yes, they are better than cool white, but not by a huge margin. The exception might be lighting a scene heavy in warmer colors. There the results would be much better than the CRI numbers would otherwise indicate.


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## Archie Cruz

I feel vindicated. I'm taking a screen shot of that poll result bar graph. Too bad I had to wait 5 years to see it with me own eyes!:twothumbs


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## waddup

i enjoy different tints depending on my mood or task.

ill take em all.(as long as theyre reasonably efficient)


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## RGB_LED

From reading the postings here on CPF, I did notice a trend but I didn't think I'd see such a large number of people preferring the warmer bins... Wow! It's definitely a great sign that LED's with a more natural colour rendition are now available. 

As for myself, I have some SSC P4's in the SVO range and I prefer the colour rendition of those lights vs. the much cooler and way harsher cool white Q5 lights that I have. So I guess the SVO would put it in the Cree WH range... so I voted for 'Slightly warmer cool white'. 

I'd like to eventually try one of the 5A or High CRI Cree LED's just to compare especially for night riding since the cool white does tend to wash out trail and foliage detail.


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## xenonk

jtr1962 said:


> The exception might be lighting a scene heavy in warmer colors. There the results would be much better than the CRI numbers would otherwise indicate.


This is pretty much what I feel is happening in my case at the very least, and I believe it's common enough that I wouldn't call it just an exception. Wood, skin tones, earth and earthy things in general all tend toward browns and reds and this is precisely what the warmer tints accentuate even without significantly higher CRI. Green coverage also needs to be taken into consideration especially for the outdoors, but even the warm tints have green output in spades.

Practical effectiveness winds up being different from the theoretical because of the environment.


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## orbital

+

These are from some P60 style drop-ins:

{left to right}

WC tint ~ this is _much_ bluer in person (G&P)
WH tint ~ full spectrum of accurate colors (Dereelight)
5A tint ~ really brings out the yellow through red shades (Dereelight)





_taken with Panasonic point & shoot_


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## timbo114

I prefer these ..

3000K: warm white
3500K: neutral white

Neutral (Cree 4C)





_Cool white (Cree WC, WD)_


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## Freeze_XJ

Depends on what i want to do... 
For checking what is moving in the garden, i prefer lumens, throw and efficiency, color no objection. On the other hand, if i try to read the colors on that little resistor, i want to have a good color rendition (4-5kK), without a distinctive blue tint. So both, actually...


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## pseudoblue

OK, I voted cool white. I've seen Quark AA neutral white from a friend (real life, not from pictures ok) but still limited experience however.

In regards to general lighting, I need both warm and daylight. For example, I prefer warm in living room, in my room I have a warm table lamp, halogen lamp but ceiling daylight CFL. In addition, prefer daylight or flourescent when working (hence the cool white flashlight), fixing things, searching for something, looking under the hood of the car, check for pipe leakings, bandaging a small wound and I read longer and better under flourescent.

The TA21 and TK40 fits under my profile. The Quark AA XPE-R2 has a little greenish that I'm not used to yet, or is it just me? I seemed to have a big favor difference than you guys, I can't take warm all the time. Sun light is perfectly fine. When I looked a the pic comparison by MWClint, erm...... I actually prefer the latter, but the pic does appear a little over exposed.


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## MWClint

probably going to get bashed again for my picture taking skills..but whatever. if the post isnt useful to you, then neener neener..

here's to show off some different color tints. i dont have any wg or wh crees in this shot, but they would show up green if i did.

Left to right
1 Fenix E01 seoul *U2SWOH* (considered a warm tinted cool led - love this cool bin)
2 Mag Solitaire *Incan* - poor thing.
3 Peak 3 Led Snow UP Matterhorn (very *warm 5mm* leds- awesome tint!..how could anyone buy a nichia 5mm light after seeing this???)
4 Fenix LD01 w/ Cree *Q5WC* (clean white tint cool led, some blue)
5 Peak Matterhorn w/4000K neutral tint *high cri seoul* (peachy red brown..u can see the red!..compare color to solitaire.)
6 Peak Eiger *neutral rebel 100*, medium Optic hp#4 
7 Peak Eiger *neutral rebel 100*, Narrow reflector sp#8 (i'd call these a creamy brown with a hint of yellow)






my preferred tint in that lineup...the high cri seoul...


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## adnj

Just like in the other poll, it looks like a most voters prefer Cree 4/5 neutral bins.


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## burntoshine

since i've bought a light with a neutral white tint, i can't stand cool white anymore.


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## saabluster

burntoshine said:


> since i've bought a light with a neutral white tint, i can't stand cool white anymore.


Welcome to the enlightened side. Now just wait until you try a high CRI LED.


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## Wiggle

5A overall. 5B is also nice but a little too yellow I find. I've made a lighting fixture at home using 4 high CRI-Seouls as well but the efficiency is too low for flashlight use in my opinion.

Quick comparison. AKOray k109 with cool white Q5 vs Q4 5B and then a TR801 with 5A. White balance is daytime


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## tsmith35

The thing about lights is... while some lights appear predominantly warm (more red/yellow), others appear predominantly cool (more blue), and still others appear very neutral (white), there isn't really a direct link between the predominant tint of a light and its color rendering ability.

For example, traditional streetlights use sodium vapor and produce a reddish-orange light with horrible color rendering (low CRI). In contrast, metal halide lights appear to have a much cooler tint but provide excellent color rendering (high CRI). Fluorescents appear to be in between as far as tint, but aren't quite as good for color rendering.

My preference would be for a beam with a neutral or very slightly blue color, but a high CRI. I didn't realize this until I was wiring up some ribbon cable connectors in a darkened room. My incandescent flashlight provided a very yellow light that I found annoying, so I switched to a Cree Q5 flashlight. Everything appeared much brighter, but I had a hard time telling the different colored wires apart (light blue looked like light green, yellow looked like lime green). I ended up putting new batteries in the incandescent light so I could get enough brightness and also tell the colors apart.

I've tried to search for high CRI lights ever since, but haven't had much luck with the mainstream brands. Most manufacturers are focused on providing high output levels that are close to white, but its hard to find bright lights with high CRI.

Anyway, just my thoughts.


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## bstrickler

I like cool white better, beacause A) The output is higher than warm, or neutral white tints, and B) I don't gain any real coloring advantage that the CRI is supposed to give you, which I think is credited to my eyesight being color deficient. Everything just looks more yellow. Regular Cool white lets me see things like I do during the daytime.

~Brian


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## hank

I'd really like to see a spectrum of these new warm LEDs.
Craig at LEDmuseum did some older ones before he gave up the spectrometer.

This for example: 
http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/fourteen/nccl023.gif
Nichia NCCL023 warm white LED; circa. December 2004. 

Here are a few:
http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/ledleft.htm

I think once people see the actual result in use of these light sources, the old ones with most of the energy in the blue spike just look weird.

Think about our eyes -- there's certainly a blue spike in daylight, from the sky -- it's the color of shadows or moonlight. But when the sun's directly lighting something up, there's far more warmer light. Compare "direct sunlight" (combining sun and sky light) with "total shade" (in a shadow, lit only by all that light from the the blue sky). 

An example found from Google Image Search:
http://www.housatonicrods.com/121707_Meadows_SM.jpg


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## Moka

NonSenCe said:


> i have 3 buddies that i am turning into flashlights..


You're turning your buddies into flashlights??? :nana:
Do I wanna know where the batteries are going? 

Back on topic...
The Cools have the blue or purple and warms are red/yellow etc... True neutrals are really nice, I lucked out on my first 'real torch' I bought the E1B and got a lovely white beam... Milky white would be the best way to describe it...
As for my vote...
I love my Hi-CRI Nichia 083 in my SunDrop more than most of my other lights... but as has been said... 45-50 lm Vs What the rest are doing at the moment, the output has a lot to be desired... However I personally feel that the lower flux is worth the Hi-CRI in some situations, my sundrop is a light i use around the house and garden at night, where 45ish Lumens is perfect... 
My Vote is High-CRI, but certainly not for general use in all lights...


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## gunga

I'm going to close this poll soon. The point has been made that a very large portion of cpfs prefer neutral/warm tints.

This is balanced by many who still prefer max output regardless of tint.

Personally, I believe in choice. As long as the light is available in neutral as an option (or can be modded without too much duress) I'm satisfied.

Who knows what the next popular tint/bin will be?

:devil:


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## faklya

I have a very narrow experience with led tints. At first I thought the whiter is the best, so that white surfaces appear really white, not orange, nor yellow or brown. My first LED was a cree Q5 WG cool white. It looked very strong white compared to incan, but something was weird with the color tones. Grass had a very strong green contrast, but was hard to differentiate from bluish colors. On wet asphalt road got a lot of glare and less detail. In general it had poor color rendition with respect to incan. I later tried a generic(no idea what tint) cool white seoul U bin, but I found color rendition was even worse. It had more greenish tint. 

I later got a cool and a neutral Rebel. The cool rebel rendered colors better than the cree and seoul, at least this was my subjective impression. I had big expectations from the neutral rebel, as I have read all OEM hids are 4100-4300K. But I didn't really liked it, it was very yellowish. Bought them from luxeonstar, so the tint could have been anywhere between 3500 and 4500. But if I was lighting a white surface under noon sunshine, it was all yellow.

I later got the newer ES cool white Rebels, @ 5650K, and love them. Better color rendering(in my opinion) than the older cool rebel 100, and still very white. They are my favorite now.

What I am looking for is very natural colors and good contrast and rendering. something like sunlight  I understand that CRI is a key factor.
This is a poll, not trying to hijack, but what would you recommend me to try?

I am currently looking at the Phatlight SST 90 series for a big offroad bike light. What bin should I order? I think a I can lower the CCT toward 5000K, or even 4500, because I think we are used with warmer light at night, for better CRI and want possibly best efficiency of course.


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## choombak

I am perfectly fine with whatever we get, and I am also okay to wait. My commitment stays, so count me in.

-Amarendra


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## gunga

Eh? Wrong thread eh? I'll close the poll now.

Can start a new one once the latest XP-Gs come in neutral...

:naughty:


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## gunga

Actually, anyone know how to close a poll?


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## tsmith35

I read something on another board...

"On the poll, there is a "Edit Poll" link on the same line as the poll question. Simply click that link and choose the "Close Poll" option."


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## Max_Power

mr.snakeman said:


> One of the-to me-most pleasing tints I have found is obtained by tail standing both my different tinted (R2, Q4) LF2XTs right next to each other-not too warm, not too cold, just right ( this means that I must walk around with them taped together to keep this nice color :sigh: ). I wish I knew what this tint would be called and if it is available anywhere?



Mr. GMan and I tried something like this at the Dec 6 Flashaholics gathering in San Jose. We each had Malkoff MD3 Wildcats: his in the standard cool-white, and mine in 5A neutral white. We tried overlapping the beams, and both of us liked the result. The color of the blended beam was very white, and color rendition seemed better than either light alone. Of course the resulting illumination was approximately 900-1000 lumens, which might be too much for critical use inside the house. Perhaps we can get Gene Malkoff to build a wildcat with three 5A emitters and one cool-white emitter, or perhaps two of each.

As for preference between cool white and neutral white, that can be summed up by Mr. GMan's offer to buy my neutral-white wildcat, and by my refusal to sell it .


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## kenkneeb

I prefer the neutral (4k) towards the warmer side of 3k for color rendition and easier. scotopic/photopic non-scatter glare happiness.

Ken


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