# Self defense flash light laws in Texas



## wrxzzz (Jan 16, 2010)

I just bought a porcupine style flash light. I was planning on keeping it in my car and was concerned about the laws in Texas. Anyone have any information about this?


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## Ajax517 (Jan 16, 2010)

It's Texas, you can probably have a flashlight with a bayonet that shoots batteries...


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## Search (Jan 16, 2010)

Google "Texas Castle Law".

If you are in imminent danger, you can do anything to protect yourself.


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 16, 2010)

Texas law forbids carrying "clubs." Clubs can mean anything the cop and DA want it to. Sort of like "burglar tools." 

The "Castle" law isn't quite that simple, either. You usually have to be in your home or car and someone must be making an illegal entry before it applies.


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## bluecrow76 (Jan 17, 2010)

Ajax517 said:


> It's Texas, you can probably have a flashlight with a bayonet that shoots batteries...



That was the best laugh I've had all week... Thanks!


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## Search (Jan 17, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> Texas law forbids carrying "clubs." Clubs can mean anything the cop and DA want it to. Sort of like "burglar tools."
> 
> The "Castle" law isn't quite that simple, either. You usually have to be in your home or car and someone must be making an illegal entry before it applies.



I was trying to keep public and private setting separated.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 17, 2010)

Ajax517 said:


> It's Texas, you can probably have a flashlight with a bayonet that shoots batteries...



Make one, and ask a cop in Texas if you can use it to shoot someone in self-defense. I bet his answer will be "Sure, fire."


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## gcbryan (Jan 17, 2010)

If you live in Texas you probably will not have a problem. If you should decide to move you may have a problem but it will probably be worth it.

Can you post a picture of a "porcupine style" flashlight?


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## wrxzzz (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks guys. I'll post pics when it's done. Just ordered all the parts.


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## kccustom (Jan 17, 2010)

I think in Texas you are ok as long as you have a gun attached to your flashlight


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## CDP930 (Jan 17, 2010)

Speaking as an officer in the great state of Texas, your fine. You would be hard pressed to find an agency that would give you any grief over that particular light set up. Being a flashaholic myself I have never seen any incidents involving "self defense" lights. You'll be fine. After all, you can carry a pistol in your car loaded as long as its not in plain view.....I'm sure you will be ok. What part of TX you living in?


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## Paladin (Jan 17, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> Texas law forbids carrying "clubs." Clubs can mean anything the cop and DA want it to. Sort of like "burglar tools."
> 
> The "Castle" law isn't quite that simple, either. You usually have to be in your home or car and someone must be making an illegal entry before it applies.


 
Don't run your mouth without knowing the "facts". Direct from the Texas DPS website, posted in Sept. 2007:


*HB 1815 
*excludes from unlawful carrying of a weapon a person who is carrying a handgun,
illegal knife, or club on the person’s own premises or premises under their control or inside of or
directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or is under their control. ​ 
Paladin​ 
ETA:http://www.rc123.com/texas_castle_doctrine.html​


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 18, 2010)

Paladin said:


> Don't run your mouth without knowing the "facts". Direct from the Texas DPS website, posted in Sept. 2007:
> 
> 
> *HB 1815
> ...



You're right, you can carry a club in your car. You can't carry it in general. If you get out of the car and use the "club" light to check a tire or assist someone else, you are technically in violation. 

If you'll notice, HB 1815 permits you to carry a club to your car, but it doesn't permit you to take it from your car back to your house. It also doesn't allow you to carry it to your wife's car if you're not the one driving.


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 18, 2010)

By the way, 

1) God bless our Texas legislature for passing the "castle" law. 

2) It's not quite the "shoot the bad guys" law some people think it is. READ the law. For instance, if someone's breaking into your car and you see them from your house, you don't have free reign to shoot them. You also don't necessarily have the right to shoot someone in your house unless they entered "unlawfully and with force."


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## MichaelW (Jan 18, 2010)

If you are in the right, it doesn't matter what the 'law' is.
See jury nullification.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jan 18, 2010)

*Re: What's a porcupine-style flashlight?*



wrxzzz said:


> I just bought a porcupine style flash light. I was planning on keeping it in my car and was concerned about the laws in Texas. Anyone have any information about this?



What, exactly, do you mean--a flashlight with retractable spikes, like this K2?


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 18, 2010)

MichaelW said:


> If you are in the right, it doesn't matter what the 'law' is.
> See jury nullification.



That can cost money, jail time, hassles, and the risk of a wrong verdict.


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## bstrickler (Jan 18, 2010)

*Re: What's a porcupine-style flashlight?*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> What, exactly, do you mean--a flashlight with retractable spikes, like this K2?



This is a porcupine-style light (a.k.a. pocket shredder, lol):

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=211416

~Brian


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## Search (Jan 18, 2010)

excludes from unlawful carrying of a weapon a person who is carrying a handgun,
illegal knife, or club on the person’s own premises or *premises under their control* or inside of or
directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or is under their control.

I'm curious about what this means exactly.


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## computernut (Jan 18, 2010)

Search said:


> excludes from unlawful carrying of a weapon a person who is carrying a handgun,
> illegal knife, or club on the person’s own premises or *premises under their control* or inside of or
> directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or is under their control.
> 
> I'm curious about what this means exactly.



Probably means a rental or place that you live that you don't own.


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## Search (Jan 18, 2010)

I guess that article doesn't apply to people with any kind of carry permit. However, I thought in Texas you didn't need a permit to open carry, only to conceal carry.

Oh well, it doesn't matter. Good luck finding a cop who actually cares about a flashlight with pointed ends. It's not really a club. It's a small light with sharp end.


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## Paladin (Jan 18, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> You're right, you can carry a club in your car. You can't carry it in general. If you get out of the car and use the "club" light to check a tire or assist someone else, you are technically in violation.
> 
> If you'll notice, HB 1815 permits you to carry a club to your car, but it doesn't permit you to take it from your car back to your house. It also doesn't allow you to carry it to your wife's car if you're not the one driving.


 
Once again, pure BS. HB1815 specifically says from your home to car is legal. Why the off-topic naysaying? The OP wants to keep the light in his car.

And as others have mentioned, in a state that allows handguns, rifles, and shotguns (and clubs and knives) to be in one's vehicle you will have a hard time finding a LEO who would hassle you for using a club to check one's tires which long haul truckers in every state do on a regular basis. If a bonafide self defense issue arises they will be amazed that a firearm was not used.

I keep an axe, shovel, machete, logging chain, knives, flashlights and often as not a firearm, etc. in my vehicle. Even back before the extension of castle doctrine to one's vehicle I have been stopped while "traveling" with a loaded Colt 1911 on the drivers floorboard. On one stop the DPS officer asked to sit in my car because she had considered buying the same model. *She experienced the leg room, looked down at the 1911, got out and told me to have a nice day*. The vast majority of LEO's are honorable and not interested in making up reasons to hassle motorists.

Paladin


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## ValhallaPrime (Jan 19, 2010)

Ajax517 said:


> It's Texas, you can probably have a flashlight with a bayonet that shoots batteries...


 
Spit out my drink on that one! 

As a kid, I used to fly down 3 times a year to Houston TX to visit my family.....While my mother and brother would be at work, I would spend the afternoons at pawn shops hunting out used rare CD's and such.

Of course, all the pawn shops had gun cases, and at almost every single shop, when they'd see me checking out the hardware, even the Class 3 stuff, they'd offer for me to handle it, in the store. 

I'll never forget...I was about 16 or 17 at the time (late 80's), and there was a fight between two mexican dudes in the front of this pawn shop. The guy had been showing me this a NIB (or damn close) IntraTec Tec-9, Full Auto. He sees the two beating each other, grabs a bat, hands me the Tec 9, and says "watch this for me for a minute, son". 

15 minutes later, after the cops had come and one of the 2 was ambulance material, he came back, in thanked me for "keeping an eye on the gun case" (I didn't, but was alone), and let me take the stack of CD's in my hand for $20. 

This all is off-topic, but if anyone hasn't experienced full-on TEXAS, yes, a bayonetted flashlight that shot exploding batteries would probably be legal, and definitely be available with pearled handles and a place to hold a beer, in TX.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 19, 2010)

Ajax517 said:


> It's Texas, you can probably have a flashlight with a bayonet that shoots batteries...



If you don't get away with this, wouldn't you be charged with assault with a battery?


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## Dave Keith (Jan 19, 2010)

As a native Texan and long-time member of the "First Liar Doesn't Have a Chance" club, I'll affirm that the majority of our law enforcement officers, especially out here in the rural areas, are more likely to compare weapons with you than hassle you as long as you show reasonable evidence of living brain cells.

I'm confidant that flashlights, even with agressive bezels, would not be a problem around here.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 19, 2010)

If you have a flashlight with a bayonet that shoots venting batteries that explode, any Texas cop would want to know where to get one for him/herself so they can replace their flash bang and tear gas grenades and launcher with a more compact, all in one weapon.


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## CDP930 (Jan 19, 2010)

Like Dave Keith said and I stated before, good luck finding an LEO that would hassle you. And the comment made about comparing weapons well your right...done it before!!

Maybe our weapon laws (or lack there of) would convince some of you non-Texans to move on in...

Regards


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## Search (Jan 19, 2010)

CDP930 said:


> Like Dave Keith said and I stated before, good luck finding an LEO that would hassle you. And the comment made about comparing weapons well your right...done it before!!
> 
> Maybe our weapon laws (or lack there of) would convince some of you non-Texans to move on in...
> 
> Regards



Thought about it, however Tennessee isn't that much different.


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## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Jan 19, 2010)

CDP930 said:


> Maybe our weapon laws (or lack there of) would convince some of you non-Texans to move on in...


All sounds very level headed to me. I'm keen, I reckon by the sound of it that I'd happy for the whole of Australia to become a branch state of Texas............


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 19, 2010)

Search said:


> I guess that article doesn't apply to people with any kind of carry permit. However, I thought in Texas you didn't need a permit to open carry, only to conceal carry.
> 
> Oh well, it doesn't matter. Good luck finding a cop who actually cares about a flashlight with pointed ends. It's not really a club. It's a small light with sharp end.



IANAL

In general, carrying a handgun in Texas is illegal. Concealed or open does not matter. The law basically makes carrying a handgun [edit- corrected from "club" to "handgun"] illegal, then throws in some exceptions. On your own premises, in your own car, if you have a concealed handgun license, etc. If you're inside your own car, you can carry, but only if the gun is concealed. 

I don't see anything that would classify the "porcupine" light shown above as a club. Of course, they could claim your Maglite is a club. 

In theory, you can carry a long gun in Texas, with some exceptions. Concealed or open doesn't matter. They can harass you by claiming that having it in plain view consisted of "brandishing" it or some such BS.

The Texas penal code is available online if you're sufficiently interested. Of course, the actual interpretation and practice of law is much more complicated than the actual text of the law. 

Some of the jurisdictions in Texas have screwball commie lib police chiefs and politicians. The Houston DA some time back decided he would simply ignore some of the laws about concealed carry in the car and have you arrested anyway and make you fight it out in court.


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## bullfrog (Jan 19, 2010)

Even if you dont get hit with CRIMINAL charges, you can bet your *** you will find yourself at the other end of a CIVIL suit from the attacker or his family.

Further, unless you actually have training related to using the light as a weapon, get some pepper/CS spray instead.

Both me and my wife carry Sabre Red.


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## CDP930 (Jan 20, 2010)

On that note, I can say that speaking with some other officers that some agencies are still arresting for a having a handgun in their vehicle concealed, even though its legal.

You will always have some agencies that are not on top of current laws, and if the officers employed do not stay current themselves then thats when you run into these kind of problems. 

I ride with a Penal Code book in the trunk (the most current of course) and when "business" is slow I will bust it out and just read. Some care about their jobs more than others so just beware


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## Dave Keith (Jan 20, 2010)

Well, good sir, I can only say that I hope you are serving a community that is close to me! Over the years I have become close friends with several peace officers and I must say that many have a sense of "calling" regarding their calling. It certainly isn't a job you would do just for the money.

Thank you for your diligence in serving the citizens of Texas!


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## joe1512 (Jan 20, 2010)

So by the 'club' logic, wouldn't police be negligent in their duties for failing to round up little league baseball team players?

As soon as they step out of the car and head to the game, they are all in violation for carrying a club...

As a life-long Texas, I can't imagine you having any problems at all.

However, people are stupid and unpredictable. You certainly could be arrested for possessing a club, however unlikely. A jury could conceivably find you guilty for the same reason.

Of course, this applies for just about anything. A jack-handle or maglite could elicit the same response theoretically.


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 20, 2010)

joe1512 said:


> So by the 'club' logic, wouldn't police be negligent in their duties for failing to round up little league baseball team players?
> 
> As soon as they step out of the car and head to the game, they are all in violation for carrying a club...
> 
> ...



As best as I can tell, the "club" law is a bit like the "burglary tools" laws. There are a lot of common objects with very legitimate usages that can be called clubs or burglary tools and it's up to you to defend yourself in court. 

I've heard that baseball bats can get you into trouble. If you're walking around the neighborhood at night carrying a bat with no obvious baseball prospects, you may have trouble. Or if you're standing on the street corner acting like a drug dealer, a baseball bat may get you into trouble, too. 

You might be in trouble for carrying a jack handle in similar circumstances as well.

There are probably some cases where an innocent person has been harassed, charged, prosecuted, plea bargained, or even convicted for innocently carrying a baseball bat or tire iron.


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 20, 2010)

CDP930 said:


> On that note, I can say that speaking with some other officers that some agencies are still arresting for a having a handgun in their vehicle concealed, even though its legal.



The Houston DA was doing this for a while. You would win in court if you fought it, but it would cost you an arrest, an arrest record, jail time, bail fees, lawyer money, time off work, etc. He knew he was wrong but got away with it until the legislature reworded the law again. 

Unfortunately, some of the agencies are all too willing to "arrest him anyway, and let the judge sort it out."


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## DM51 (Jan 20, 2010)

The thread has veered too far off-topic with spurious talk of clubs, handguns etc.

It's a bad topic anyway; most such "self-defense" threads end in acrimony and have to be closed. 

Furthermore, I'm not certain it belongs here in this forum. "Self-defense flashlight laws in TX?" Is there any specific law concerning defending oneself with a flashlight, rather than another object? I don't know, but I doubt it. If there is no specific law on this, that means the entire thread, including the title, is off-topic. Whatever the case, I'm closing it.


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