# L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, VIDEO+



## selfbuilt (Nov 29, 2013)

*Warning: pic heavy, as usual. *

This is a review of the 1xAA L3 Illumination L10 – available with either a XP-G2 R5 (Cool White) or the Nichia 219 4500K 92CRI (Neutral White). 












As you can see above, I have the full set of anodizing colors.  

In addition to the two emitter types, half of the above samples are the 3-level version, and the other half are the 4-level model. This gives me a lot more data than usual to work with, so expect more detailed analyses of sample variation in this review. 

Despite the use of two different emitters, L3 Illumination reports a common set of specifications. As you will see in my detailed testing later in this review, there are a few differences between the emitters. 

*Manufacturer Reported Specifications:* 
(note: as always, these are simply what the manufacturer provides – scroll down to see my actual testing results).


LED: Cree XP-G2 R5 Cool White or Nichia 219 4500K 92CRI B10 bin
Note: these specs are apparently based on the earlier XP-G R5 model. The dealer's website suggest the XP-G2 outputs will be higher, but doesn't provide details
Four modes of output: firefly (0.09lumens, 147hours) -> Low (3 lumens, 30hrs) -> Medium (30 lumens) --> High (120 lumens, 1.5hrs) -> (Tested with Ni-mh battery with actual capacity 2500mAh)
Note: 3 mode model removes Firefly mode of 0.09 lumens. Low, Medium, High only
Stable current regulated circuit, stable brightness
Uses one 1.5V AA battery (ni-mh, alkaline ). 14500 batteries are not recommeded, because they heat up quickly.
20-gram weight (excluding batteries)
Made of durable aircraft-grade aluminum
Premium Type III hard-anodized anti-abrasive finish
Waterproof to IPX-8 Standard
Toughened double ultra-clear glass lens
Reliable twist switch
Candle mode (Capable of standing up securely on a flat surface to serve as a candle)
Size: 79mm(length)x17.1mm(dia)
Mode switch: Tighten and loosen the head to switch between modes.
No mode memory, always starts on Firefly mode 
MSRP: ~$23-25










Packaging is pretty basic - a slightly opaque plastic "tube", which contains the light, extra o-rings and a small keychain ring. Printed on the outside of the container are the light specifics (including emitter type, color and mode number). I am not sure if the manual routinely comes with the lights – if not, you can download the PDF instruction manual from the dealer website (although the specs seem out of date in the manual – you are best to rely on the website for those).









From left to right: Duracell NiMH AA; L3 Illumination L10; Foursevens Mini-AA; Nitecore SENS AA; Fenix E11; Olight S15; Rofis ER12; Zebralight SC52; L3 Illumination L10.

All dimensions directly measured, and given with no batteries installed:

*L3 Illumination L10*: Weight: 20.7g, Length: 79.4mm, Width (bezel): 17.1mm
*ArmyTek A1 XP-G*: Weight: 57.3g, Length: 96.8mm , Width (bezel): 23.1mm
*Fenix LD12*: Weight: 52.3g, Length: 99.9mm, Width (bezel): 21.6mm
*Foursevens Mini AA*: Weight: 17.6g, Length: 78.2mm, Width (bezel): 17.6mm
*Olight S15 1xAA*: Weight: 46.4g, Length: 87.0mm, Width (bezel): 23.1mm
*Nitecore EA1*: Weight: 50.6g, Length: 84.3mm, Width (bezel): 25.41mm
*Nitecore MT1A*: Weight: 54.6g, Length: 104.6mm, Width (bezel): 22.7mm
*Nitecore SENS AA*: Weight: 26.1g, Length: 82.7mm, Width (bezel): 19.8mm
*Lumintop ED15*: Weight: 59.7g, Length: 100.2, Width (bezel): 21.9mm
*Zebralight SC52*: Weight 39.5g, Length 79.0mm, Width (bezel): 22.6mm, Width (max) 25.4mm
*Rofis ER12*: Wright: 35.5g, Length: 96.2mm, Width (bezel): 18.6mm
*Xeno E03:*: Weight: 48.1g, Length 96.7mm, Width (bezel): 21.5mm 

As you can see, the L10 is quite compact for a 1xAA light. This is consistent with its twisty interface.






























The L10 series lights remind me of similar slim-lined offerings over the years from Nitecore, Foursevens, Thrunite, Lumintop and Olight/ITP. Overall construction is pretty basic, but serviceable for a keychain-style pocket light. Basically, you can think of these sorts of lights as the 1xAA equivalent of the common 1xAAA twisty lights from the above makers.

The L10 does have more knurling than most lights in this slim-lined class. While not overly aggressive (i.e., it won't shred clothing), it does help with grip. The various anodizing colors provide a range of options. The anodizing quality seems quite good on all colors, with no chips on any of my samples. Manufacturer claims hard anodized (aka, type III), which is better than most colored lights (which are only of type II strength). The one exception here is the white version, which is spray-painted over the grey-anodized form. This contributes to a more glossy finish and feel for the white version, and is more likely to chip than the other anodized colors.

Screw threads are standard triangular cut, fairly fine (like most lights in this class). You can expect some play, but I found the fit to be reasonably good on my samples. 

As you can see, the head of the L10 has a brass pill/base, like a number of lights in this slim-lined class (presumably for heat-sinking purposes). The battery contact surface in the head is flat, and includes a foam cushion surrounding the center disc. A cushion is common on these sorts of lights to reduce battery rattle, and to provide some extra padding. Note there is no spring in the tail region (only a small raised metal post).  These types of lights thus all run the risk of crushing your cells if you over-tighten repeatedly.

There is a lanyard/spilt-ring attachment point at the base of the tailcap, with a cut-out for the keychain split-ring. As such, the lights can all tailstand stably. 

As mentioned earlier, the lights are distinguished by their emitter choice:

Nichia 219









XP-G2 R5









Centering was consistently good on my samples – there was only one in the whole group that was slightly off visibly, but not enough to affect the beam pattern. Both emitter versions seem to come with the same reflector – a relatively shallow one, with an orange peel (OP) coating to smooth out the beam.

Please see my detailed beamshots later in this review, for each model.

*User Interface*

The L10 uses the same interface as most AA/AAA-twisty lights. 

Fully tighten the head and it comes on in its lowest mode (Firefly or Low, depending on the model). Do a rapid twist off-on and the light advances to next level. Mode sequence is Firefly > Lo > Med > Hi (or Lo > Med > Hi), in repeating sequence. 

Turn the light off by loosening the head. There is no mode memory, and the light always defaults to its lowest setting if you wait more than a second or two before turning back on.

There is no strobe or SOS mode on the L10.

*Video*: 

For information on the light, including the build and user interface, please see my video overview:



Video was recorded in 720p, but YouTube typically defaults to 360p. Once the video is running, you can click on the configuration settings icon and select the higher 480p to 720p options. You can also run full-screen. 

As with all my videos, I recommend you have annotations turned on. I commonly update the commentary with additional information or clarifications before publicly releasing the video.

*PWM*

There is no sign of PWM at any output level, on any model. The L10 is current-controlled. 

As mentioned above, there is no strobe or SOS mode on the L10.

*Beamshots:*

For white-wall beamshots below, all lights are on Max output on a Sanyo Eneloop NiMH (2000mAh). Lights are about ~0.75 meter from a white wall (with the camera ~1.25 meters back from the wall). 

Automatic white balance on the camera, to minimize tint differences – except for the Nichia 219, which is using a Daylight white balance on my Canon camera. 





























































If you neglect beam tint (which is hard to capture on a camera, due to the narrow range of white balancing options), the overall beam pattern is not hugely different. I find the XP-G2 versions to be slightly more "throwy", with a more sharply defined hotspot and slightly greater throw. 

But it is definitely the beam tint differences that you are likely to notice between these emitters. The 4500K on the Nichia is very pleasing (to my eye) neutral white. The higher color rendition index (CRI) should also help display colors more consistently.

One question that comes up in a lot of my reviews is the consistency of <1 lumen Moonlight/Firefly modes. I have long argued that these are highly variable between samples of the same model (unlike >1 lumen levels, which are very consistent between samples). We have here an opportunity to start to test these differences, as all four of my 4-level models are rated as 0.09 lumens. How do they look? (Daylight white balance below)











Clearly, there is a HUGE variability in the Firefly output levels among these samples – as I believe there are on all lights with <1 lumen modes. oo: As for the actual measured outputs (and sample variation measures), scroll down to my detailed testing.

*Testing Method:* 

All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, as described on my flashlightreviews.ca website. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for any extended run Lo/Min modes (i.e. >12 hours) which are done without cooling.

I have devised a method for converting my lightbox relative output values (ROV) to estimated Lumens. See my How to convert Selfbuilt's Lightbox values to Lumens thread for more info. 

My summary tables are reported in a manner consistent with the ANSI FL-1 standard for flashlight testing. Please see http://www.flashlightreviews.ca/FL1.htm for a discussion, and a description of all the terms used in these tables. Effective July 2012, I have updated all my Peak Intensity/Beam Distance measures with a NIST-certified Extech EA31 lightmeter (orange highlights).

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_*REVIEWER'S NOTE*_: Normally at this point I would provide a summary table showing how the output and throw of the review light compares to the competition. But we have a wonderful opportunity here to explore inter-sample variability, given that I have 8 samples of the L10 on hand (4 XP-G2s and 4 Nichia 219s, split into 3- and 4-mode versions). Let's work through what this means for us. :wave:

The first thing to note is that L3 Illumination reports identical output and runtime specs for the two emitter versions – although that's because both the XP-G2 R5 and Nichia 219 are still using the originally reported XP-G R5 specs. You might naturally question whether or not that is reasonable. 

The best place to start to answer that question is to look at some output/runtime data. Below is a graph of the 8 lights (colored-grouped by emitter) on Hi, on Sanyo Eneloop:






The first thing you are likely to notice is that the XP-G2 versions (blue lines) all show higher output on max than the Nichia 219 versions (orange lines). The differences aren't huge, but it is suggestively consistent. The second thing to note is that the runtimes to 10% (ANSI FL-1 standard) don't seem appreciably different (although there is one Nichia that seems to be a bit of an outlier).

 It's always important to actually _look_ at the data in this way, before rushing to do statistical comparisons. It's common in this hobby for people to want to reduce flashlights to just a couple of numbers (e.g., initial output and runtime). But it is often not valid to do that, due to all the differences in regulation and runtime patterns between different lights (see my website's methodology page for a good example of why you need to always look at the runtime data first). But in this case, the consistently tight regulation pattern on NiMH for all my L10 samples suggests we can proceed with some probabilistic statistical analyses. 

In statistics, the standard measure used to describe how much variation there is from the average is known as the _standard deviation (SD)_. You can easily calculate the SD and the average (mean), which gives you a convenient way to directly compare the variation between groups in a consistent manner. Simple sample statistics are commonly reported as the mean +/- the SD.

For a normally-distributed population (i.e., the class bell-shaped curve for IQ tests, and many naturally occurring phenomenon), you can think of the mean as the center of the curve, and a single standard deviation unit as being the point on either side of the mean where 68% of the samples would fall within. Let's see how the estimated lumens look:






What is shown above is the manufacturer's common lumen estimates for the four possible modes (first two columns). The next two columns are what I actually measured for each sample, broken down by emitter type (XP-G2 in column 3, Nichia 219 in column 4). These values are expressed as the mean +/- SD.

A few things jump out here (just looking at third and fourth columns for now). The first is that there is a lot of variability WITHIN the Firefly modes of a given group (although I caution here than the number of samples  is lower). For either emitter, the Firefly SD is huge: ~80-95% of the mean value. This is consistent with what you saw in the beamshots earlier, for the four samples. In contrast, the Lo/Med/Hi modes show a far more consistent ~3-10% SD variance around the mean, on either emitter.

The second major finding is that the absolute mean for each emitter group is not that different (at any level). The possible exception to this is the Hi mode, where there does seem to be a more consistent difference (as we saw in the earlier graph). Is this measurably significant?

To address that issue, I have performed a very common statistical hypothesis test known as the Student's t test (or simply, the t-test). This test is used to determine if two sets of data are _statistically significantly different_ from each other. It is common to use the probability statistic p < 0.05 as a cut-off for statistical significance. P-values are often misunderstood as the given odds ratio of being right (i.e., a lot of people erroneously think that p = 0.05 means there is a one in twenty chance of being wrong). In fact, when used in this context to compare samples of larger populations, p = 0.05 actually means that only 1 time out of 20 would you expect to see a difference this great between two groups of samples _when in fact there wasn't one._

Doing multiple t-tests within a larger data set is a statistical no-no, but I feel quite confident in doing the four limited comparisons shown in column 5 above (i.e., are the two emitter groups different for each level, at the p < 0.05 cut-off level?). If you are curious, there are correction methods for much larger multiple comparisons (e.g. Bonferroni), but these tend be overly conservative and not necessary in our limited example. As an aside, most fields of science would use an analysis of variance (ANOVA) F-test for these types of comparisons, followed by a post-hoc test. What many (even in the science biz) don't realize is that the various post-hoc tests all suffer from similar correction factor shenanigans as the simpler t-test methods. Statistical purists decry all post-hoc analyses. 

Back on topic: the t-test results tell us that we can reasonably believe that the _Hi mode of the XP-G2 and Nichia 219 sub-groups are in fact different from one another_. This is consistent with we observed on the output/runtime graph above – there seems to be a difference between these two groups.

The t-tests also tell us that there is no apparent difference between the two emitter groups at any of the other levels (i.e., Firefly/Lo/Med). As a result, there is no real justification for treating them separately in this analysis – I have combined all the samples into one joint column (column 6) for these levels. 

Long story short: You can use the *bolded* numbers in the table above as the best measures of the true mean and variance for each level. Only in the case of the Hi mode do you need to consider these separately, by emitter type.

All that being said, is the _absolute_ difference between the Hi outputs of the XP-G2 and Nichia 219s all that different? Not really - you are looking at a <10% typical difference. The visual differences in beam profile and tint between these emitters will be far more noticeable than such minor overall output differences. 

So much for output then. How about runtime? For this, I've only done ANSI FL-1 standard testing (i.e., time to 10%) on the Hi mode on Sanyo Eneloop:






Again, you can see the stats back up what you could see in the output/runtime graph (leaving all the data in). That is, there is no significant different in runtime on Hi between these two emitter classes. I would recommend you stick with the combined column measure above.

It is nice to see that both the lumen and runtime specs provided by L3 Illumination seem to match very well with my testing. It's also nice to see that there is relatively little variation between samples – these sorts of standard deviations (at these n levels) are quite good. 

Given the much larger difference in beam profile between these emitters, how does the throw compare? 






Ding-ding-ding, we have a winner!  There is remarkably little variation in peak intensity throw WITHIN each emitter group – but a noticeable difference BETWEEN emitter groups. In common statistical parlance, the actual p value here would typically be described as "highly statistically significant" (i.e., well below p < 0.01). 

So, while there is a small increase in max output with the XP-G2 version (<10%), there is a much more noticeable increase in peak intensity throw (>35%). But before you get too carried away, keep in mind that a better way to meaningfully compare throw is by beam distance to a common intensity (not raw intensity at a common distance). By the common ANSI FL-1 beam distance measure, the XP-G2s are only a little >15% further throwing than the Nichia 219s (recall: light decays with distance by an inverse square law).

Now let's roll all that up into my usual simple summary table for NiMH, broken down by emitter group for the L10 (given the statistically significant differences on Hi). Since there is no statistical reason to separate the lights by emitter on Firefly/Lo, I've left those fields common.






You'll note above that ceiling bounce numbers (which I provide as an additional output measure) suggest a greater output difference between the emitter types on Hi. I suspect this is due to the more throwy beam on the XP-G2 model (i.e., throwy beams tend to get higher ceiling bounce numbers, likely due to direct reflectance off the ceiling back to the sensor). As always, I recommend you go with the much better calibrated lightbox numbers.

For 1x14500 (3.7V Li-ion), the manufacturer recommends you don't run the light on this source, due to rapid heat buildup. In case you were wondering, here is a comparison table of estimated lumen outputs:






As you can see, all modes of the lights are much brighter on 14500. I have broken the Med/Hi results up by emitter on 14500, as t-tests suggest these are significantly different (no difference between emitters detected on Firefly or Lo). On the basis of these results, I also recommend you don't run the lights on Med or Hi on 14500, as the output considerably exceeds the Hi level of standard cells. You may thus damage the emitter or battery by the heat buildup (i.e., there is little thermal mass to help cool the light). 

Another other thing to notice above is that the sub-lumen Firefly mode is actually maintained, although it is about four times brighter on 14500 (on average). Interesting, the variability measure stays about the same, which goes to show you that consistency between moonlight/firefly levels improves at the higher levels (i.e., the lower the moonlight level, the more relative variation you are likely to see).

One last comment about the above - don't get caught up on the implied precision of the lumen estimates. I provide 3 significant figures (sig figs, or sig digs/significant digits as the kids call them today) in that table abpve so that you can get a better feel of variability. I personally limit most of my tables to 2 sig figs, because I don't believe you should be inferring accuracy to the precision of my instumentation (i.e., just because I can measure my lumen estimates consistently doesn't mean it represents the "true" lumen value).

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Ok, that was a lot of data. :sweat: I know that was a long preamble to get to this point, but hopefully those of you who are more quantitatively-inclined will have appreciated it. :wave:

*Runtimes*

For comparison output/runtimes, I've picked a "representational" sample of each emitter group. In other words, I've picked a sample for each group that was relatively near the mean for that group (for both runtime and output). 




















Performance is pretty much what you would expect for a good XP-G/XP-G2 light – excellent regulation, and typical runtime for current-control. 

Since the manufacturer recommends against running the lights on 14500, I have not done additional runtimes on this battery source.

*Potential Issues*

Lights roll easily.

Although impressively small for 1xAA lights, the L10s may still be a bit large for a keychain light. 

Twisty lights that tighten to activate or change modes always have the potential to be battery crushers. Care needs to be used not to over-tighten, especially when mode switching.

Like with other lights in this slim-lined class, output levels are much higher on 14500 (3.7V Li-ion). The manufacturer recommends against running the lights this way (due to heat buildup), and I concur. I recommend you do not run these lights on Med or Hi on 14500 – best to limit yourself to Firefly/Lo modes (which are much brighter than on standard cells).

*Preliminary Observations*

The L10 by L3 Illumination is a nice slim-lined 1xAA light, very similar in functionality to a number of competing lights by Olight/ITP, Foursevens, Fenix, Thrunite and others. What really distinguishes the L10 is the stock option of the latest Cree emitter (XP-G2 cool white), or the popular Hi CRI Nichia 219 neutral white emitter. Decisions, decisions. 

One nice feature is the use of current-control for the low modes on the L10. Although this is becoming increasing common, some of the earlier slim-lined designs from other makers used PWM (with potentially visible flicker). My L10 samples were all fully flat-regulated and visually stable on all levels, including Firefly.

Another difference here is that you have the option of a 3-level (Lo/Med/Hi) or 4-level (Firefly/Lo/Med/Hi) model. The only difference is the addition of the extra Firefly level at the start of the mode sequence. Note there is no mode memory, and the lights all start at their lowest level. Mode spacing seems good to me (and I personally like the dim Firefly mode). 

Finally, you have the option of a range of anodized colors. Many lights remind me of the famous quote from Henry Ford - "any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."  The colors here are all reported as hard anodized (aka type III), and I certainly saw no signs of chips or damage on any of the ones I've handled. Body design is good for this class, with better grip than some (i.e., can easily use one-handed).

The manufacturer doesn't recommend the use of 14500 Li-ion batteries (because of the high heat, due to the much higher output). I concur, and recommend you stick with standard AA cells (NiMH, alkaline or L91 lithium). Performance-wise, the current-controlled circuit worked consistently well in my testing. Runtimes are excellent for the class, and regulation was relatively flat. 

Beam pattern is quite good on both emitter types, a fairly general purpose beam. I personally prefer the slightly smoother hotspot-to-spill transitions of the Nichia 219 – not to mention its neutral white tint and higher CRI. But that choice is yours. 

As an aside, it was nice to be able to do some detailed sample variation testing on the L10. I don't get that opportunity very often, and the results here match my previous experience. To wit, _Firefly/Moonlight mode output levels can be extremely variable between samples of the same model_, but most regular modes are very consistent. In my experience, this significant variability is true of all lights with <1 lumen modes (particularly <0.1 lumen modes), which is why you see so many disagreements here about the actual lumen level of various people's n=1 samples.  Note that I didn't directly test runtimes at the low levels on the L10, but I have previously had the same experience on that front as well (i.e., runtimes are generally very consistent at higher outputs, and very variable at low ones).

A nice addition to the simple, twisty-style class of 1xAA lights. Not much to criticize here, it seems like L3 Illumination has gotten this model right. 

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L3 Illumination L10 lights were supplied by sbflashlights.com for review.


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## doctordun (Nov 29, 2013)

This is an awesome review. Thank you.


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## rje58 (Nov 29, 2013)

Thanks for the great review! I have one of these and I really like it, so much so that it's in my EDC rotation. However, I am concerned about the durability of the foam cushion around the head / battery contact area - especially since I carry it and use it a lot. What are you thoughts on this?


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## cyclesport (Nov 29, 2013)

Thx for reviewing this CPF favorite! I've had one of the 4 mode 219 versions for some time and have always felt it was a great value for a "pocketable" Nichia 219 Hi-CRI EDC light, being rare...and was always curious as to the true max output of this light. My moonlight mode has been, IMO at a perfect 1-2 (est) lumen level...and I was surprised to see the variability you observed among several test samples!


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## reppans (Nov 29, 2013)

*L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

Great review Selfbuilt. FWIW, I got 48 hrs on a low mode test with a 2000 mah Eneloops, far exceeding spec, on an N219 version....one of the most efficient 1xAAs in my collection.



> ...As an aside, it was nice to be able to do some detailed sample variation testing on the L10. I don't get that opportunity very often, and the results here match my previous experience. To wit, Firefly/Moonlight mode output levels can be extremely variable between samples of the same model, but most regular modes are very consistent. In my experience, this extreme variability is true of all lights with <1 lumen modes, which is why you see so many disagreements here about the actual lumen level of various people's n=1 samples. Note that I didn't directly test runtimes at the low levels on the L10, but I have previously had the same experience on that front as well (i.e., runtimes are generally very consistent at higher outputs, and very variable at low ones)...



Appreciate you taking the time to look into this, and especially the side-by-side photo which perfectly illustrates the variability. As a sub-lumen/AA/14500 collector that tests his own lights, I know I have been one to address this repeatedly. 

I'm wondering if output consistency between individual samples increases significantly as lumens increase - that certainly seems true based on your SD statistics here. In other words, I think lights with "brighter" sub-lumen levels might show much greater sample consistency than "dimmer" ones. For example, here's a side-by-side of a sample of my AA sub-lumen collection with Manuf. spec/my measurement (which I've posted elsewhere):






I think I've had 8+ copies of the Quark 0.3 XML; 4 of the Quark 0.2 XPG; 3 of the D25A 0.25 XML ('12); and 5 of the T10 0.1, and although I admit that I have not metered each sample, to my eye, they appeared stone consistent when I tested them side-by-side for proper operation upon receipt (I stock up for gifts, esp during the great rebranding sales).

I do not have multiple copies of any light that fell below the Thrunite Firefly 0.09 level, however, as I personally just find it to be less useful, and was frankly disappointed by how far off spec the lights seemed to be (also had the S15, which was similar to your 2nd example, if you recall). Lastly, perhaps sample consistency is more prevalent among certain manufacturers than others?


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## selfbuilt (Nov 29, 2013)

rje58 said:


> However, I am concerned about the durability of the foam cushion around the head / battery contact area - especially since I carry it and use it a lot. What are you thoughts on this?


This is a common concern on lights that use a foam cushion. But there is an easy fix if one falls off or gets too squished over time: Dr. Sholl's corn pads. :laughing:

Believe it or not, the classic round ones are a good size to prevent AA rattle. They are bit wider than the L10 stock pad diameter, but could be easily trimmed slightly if needed. A quick internet search tells me these seem to be more oval-shapped now, so some trimming will definitely be required for those.



cyclesport said:


> My moonlight mode has been, IMO at a perfect 1-2 (est) lumen level...and I was surprised to see the variability you observed among several test samples!


I wasn't.  Although lights near the 1 lumen level are usually pretty consistent, all bets are off once you go <0.01 lumens. A slight difference in circuit or emitter characteristics could have a signficant impact on output (and runtime). 

As an aside, this is why you will see so many disagreements here about the relative output of <0.01 lumen lights. I suspect the individual samples are varying widely, so you don't have any consistent reference standard to work against (i.e., there is no one light everyone can agree on, since they all suffer from some degree of sample-to-sample variability). I would point out as well that most commercial integrating spheres are designed for higher lumen levels (i.e. in the ~10-10000 lumen range). Manufacturers would need to use an entirely different sphere to accurately measure their sub-lumen levels, to get reliable numbers.



reppans said:


> I'm wondering if output consistency between individual samples increases significantly as lumens increase - that certainly seems true based on your SD statistics here. In other words, I think lights with "brighter" sub-lumen levels might show much greater sample consistency than "dimmer" ones.


Yes, I would think so.

As a side issue, although I haven't reported on pair-wise comparisons, I did notice a possible trend for a given light to consistently deviate across levels (i.e., if it is relatively bright on one level, it tends to be so on the others, compared to the group mean). But this certainly broke down by the time I got to Firefly - for example, the brightest Firefly sample was also the dimmest Hi. :shrug: 

I'll double-check the data and see if I can find time to do an ANOVA to confirm ...

_EDIT: I just checked, and there is no statistically significant pattern here after all. So there is no evidence of consistency of variance across levels for the repeated samples. _



> Lastly, perhaps sample consistency is more prevalent among certain manufacturers than others?


A good point - I have no idea how representational the L10 results are to other manufacturers. We would need to see multiple samples of a given model to know for sure.


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## psychbeat (Nov 29, 2013)

*L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

Awesome review!

I think my 219s moonlight is on the lower end of the spectrum - still useable tho. 

The 3 mode is better for non flashaholics for sure. 

The white paint does chip a bit but with the gray ano underneath I think it will have a nice "patina" after a couple of years hard use 

I wish they made an 18650 version!


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## tobrien (Nov 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

thanks selfbuilt! excellent work as always! 

I think I'll have to pick up a 219 model. I really, genuinely believe *there is no beating the beam on a 219 in low-output scenarios*.

The XP-G2 is great, don't get me wrong, but the hotspot is too strong when you're in the dark and don't need a ton of light (IMO). Similarly, when you don't need much light, you can't go wrong with the "slightly smoother hotspot-to-spill transitions of the Nichia 219" (quote from selfbuilt's review).

The 219 works great in these smaller lights in my experience.

edit: is there no blue or green model for the 219 variant?


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## selfbuilt (Nov 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*



tobrien said:


> edit: is there no blue or green model for the 219 variant?


I believe all anodizing colors are available for either emitter, and for both 3/4-level versions. I suppose the only issue is how much stock they can possibly carry of each, given so many permutations.

BTW, I've justed edit my earlier post where I speculated about a possible consistency of deviation for individual samples (across each level). ANOVA confirms there's there is no clear pattern (p = 0.25).


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## rickypanecatyl (Nov 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

I always appreciate your reviews but this one was over the top! I was thinking "I am such a geek" as I took in your compiled data with fascination! 

I'm sure this review was a lot of work; thanks for putting it together!


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## MichaelW (Nov 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

In light of the crAA 14505's short positive terminal, does it work with the foam protection of the head?
That shouldn't overheat this 20 gram light, right?


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## stevieo (Nov 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

Selfbuilt, nice review as always!!


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## markr6 (Nov 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

How did I not realize selfbuilt never reviewed on of my favorites until now? I have two black L10s with the Nichia 219. As irony would have it, my most often used light with the best tint and beam is the cheapest


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## selfbuilt (Nov 30, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*



rickypanecatyl said:


> I'm sure this review was a lot of work; thanks for putting it together!


Yes it was, but its fun to have more data to examine. 



MichaelW said:


> In light of the crAA 14505's short positive terminal, does it work with the foam protection of the head?
> That shouldn't overheat this 20 gram light, right?


The positive button of the 14505 CRAA is not sufficient to make contact on my sample (although I suppose you could remove the foam). Would certainly be better than 14500 Li-ion, but I'm sure Hi would still be contra-indicated.



stevieo said:


> you have typo in MANUFACTURERS SPECS section.


Thanks, fixed.


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## StudFreeman (Nov 30, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

This is probably my favorite selfbuilt review yet. Entertaining and informative. The L10 219 sure is a great value!


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## reppans (Dec 1, 2013)

selfbuilt said:


> A good point - I have no idea how representational the L10 results are to other manufacturers. We would need to see multiple samples of a given model to know for sure.




Just wanted to get back to the question of sub-lumen variability. Here's a quick shot of four Quark LV XMLs on 0.3 lms (2 CW, 2 NW) and three 2012 D25A NW XMLs on 0.5 lms (I meter them to be ~0.25 lms). The furthest right is dimmest, but it has an unusual "PWM" issue (or some sort of high frequency strobe/pulse/flickering) on moonlight mode - gave this one to the Mrs. with ML mode programmed off.


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## doctordun (Dec 2, 2013)

Selfbuilt, would you have an estimate of runtime of the Nichia 219 medium 30 lumen level with and eneloop 2000? 
Short of running a test, is there a formula for something like this.
Thanks.


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## wertzius (Dec 2, 2013)

The white ones are painted, not anodized!

Gesendet von meinem GT-N8000 mit Tapatalk 4


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## selfbuilt (Dec 3, 2013)

reppans said:


> Just wanted to get back to the question of sub-lumen variability. Here's a quick shot of four Quark LV XMLs on 0.3 lms (2 CW, 2 NW) and three 2012 D25A NW XMLs on 0.5 lms (I meter them to be ~0.25 lms). The furthest right is dimmest, but it has an unusual "PWM" issue (or some sort of high frequency strobe/pulse/flickering) on moonlight mode - gave this one to the Mrs. with ML mode programmed off.


Thanks, good comparison. Of course, the L10 Firefly level is lower than my various Quark or Eagletac D25x-series lights, so the effect could still be due to the ultra-lo level here (as opposed to being solely manufacturer-specific).



doctordun said:


> Selfbuilt, would you have an estimate of runtime of the Nichia 219 medium 30 lumen level with and eneloop 2000? Short of running a test, is there a formula for something like this.


Not really - you actually need to do the runtime test to find out for sure. I have not done the Med mode on eneloop - and may not have time, given how busy I am with other lights. That said, most AA lights around this output level are not too different in term of runtime and regulation on alkaline and eneloop, so you could use that data as a rough indicator (with eneloop likely lasting slightly longer).



wertzius said:


> The white ones are painted, not anodized!


Yes, that was pointed out in the review and the video.


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## wertzius (Dec 3, 2013)

Sry, i don't know how i overlooked that!

Gesendet von meinem GT-N8000 mit Tapatalk 4


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## selfbuilt (Dec 3, 2013)

wertzius said:


> Sry, i don't know how i overlooked that!


It's ok, there's a lot of text up there. :laughing:


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## Mr Floppy (Dec 3, 2013)

markr6 said:


> How did I not realize selfbuilt never reviewed on of my favorites until now?



Me too, only just noticed it in his sig as the latest review, and what a review! Much of the stats stuff just went out my ear though. Although I like warm and Nichia 219 has no apparent tint that I can see, I really like this light for much more than just the emitter, flat regulation for a start.

I did some lumen calculations for my 219 based off your LD10 R4 review, wasn't too far off but not close. I think this is the new set of figures I'll use to calibrate my new set up should I even bother. It seems that most new lights eventually make it to your hands, and shows the recognition from the industry as to high quality and value of your reviews.

The run time on high is interesting. I calculated high based on the current draw and I should only get around an hour. Of course, what I realise now is that it is coulud be the resistance in my probes as the multi meter is in series and I take the reading with batteries fresh off the charger. In any case, I get 1.9A on eneloops but around 1.5A on anything else. To get 1 hour 23 minutes, it pretty much has draw to 1.5A, yet I can't see any sort of initial peak on your runtime graph? Could it be some sort of ramp up on eneloops or just my eneloops (gen 1)? It seems to hover around 1.8/1.9 for the first 30 seconds roughly (holding probe and compressing the foam is hard). I notice that with a depleted alkaline that it some times takes a couple of seconds for high to switch on. 

In any case, to get the output out of the 219 on high, it'll need to put 500mA to 600mA to the LED (going by memory as I can't find the spec sheet) so safe to say the efficiency is good?



doctordun said:


> Selfbuilt, would you have an estimate of runtime of the Nichia 219 medium 30 lumen level with and eneloop 2000?
> Short of running a test, is there a formula for something like this.
> Thanks.



I'm getting 250mA from the battery tail cap measure, so it is pretty much as the runtime in the alkaline graph. Around 8 hours. Of course, nothing beats an actual runtime graph :wink: 



selfbuilt said:


> Finally, you have the option of a range of anodized colors. Many lights remind me of the famous quote from Henry Ford - "any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black."



It's a quote that has been perhaps misquoted. The original attributed quote is "you can paint it any color so long as it is black". The customer bit was somehow added. Then there is the issue as to whether he ever said it, as the model T came out with different colors before they were all apparently painted black to reduce costs. Old page from Henry Ford museum. http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html


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## selfbuilt (Dec 3, 2013)

Mr Floppy said:


> Of course, what I realise now is that it is coulud be the resistance in my probes as the multi meter is in series and I take the reading with batteries fresh off the charger. In any case, I get 1.9A on eneloops but around 1.5A on anything else. To get 1 hour 23 minutes, it pretty much has draw to 1.5A, yet I can't see any sort of initial peak on your runtime graph? Could it be some sort of ramp up on eneloops or just my eneloops (gen 1)? It seems to hover around 1.8/1.9 for the first 30 seconds roughly (holding probe and compressing the foam is hard).


Hard to say. I don't bother with tailcap current draws any more, as I know they are not accurate with my meters/cables. The fresh-off-the-charger could also be a factor. :shrug: But as you say, nothing beats an actual runtime ... it's hard to troubleshoot why an estimation method is not accurate.



> It's a quote that has been perhaps misquoted. The original attributed quote is "you can paint it any color so long as it is black". The customer bit was somehow added. Then there is the issue as to whether he ever said it, as the model T came out with different colors before they were all apparently painted black to reduce costs. Old page from Henry Ford museum. http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/showroom/1908/model.t.html


He added it himself.  I took the quote wording from wikiquote.org, which links to the full text of his autobiography (which is a verifiable source). He wis referring to his own recollection of what he had said at the time, so it is of course possible he misquoted himself.  ...


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## reppans (Dec 3, 2013)

selfbuilt said:


> Thanks, good comparison. Of course, the L10 Firefly level is lower than my various Quark or Eagletac D25x-series lights, so the effect could still be due to the ultra-lo level here (as opposed to being solely manufacturer-specific).



Yes, agreed but I thought it was important to establish some consistency among the "brighter" sub-lumen mode manufacturers since the following general statements indicates high variability among most sub-lumen lights. 



> ....One question that comes up in a lot of my reviews is the consistency of <1 lumen Moonlight/Firefly modes. I have long argued that these are highly variable between samples of the same model (unlike >1 lumen levels, which are very consistent between samples)....
> 
> ....Clearly, there is a HUGE variability in the Firefly output levels among these samples – as I believe there are on all lights with <1 lumen modes...



But to the point on ultra-lows and manufacturer consistency, here are the Thrunite T10s (probably the L10s closest competitor) which I have on hand and they're rated the same 0.09lm/147hr as the L10, although I meter the T10s as accurate. (BTW, I promise I am not cherry picking - the QAAX, D25A, and T10 are the only models I have 3 or more copies of and I am displaying all of them.)







I know I have repeatedly raised the sub-lumen variability question with you, but I just don't see it, and I've had over 2 dozen (across 4 models) pass through my hands, but perhaps it's because I do not repeat purchase lights with <0.09 lm lows. What really confounds me and started these questions are the late model Zebralight lights (ie 52 series). They're supposed to have among the brightest 0.34 lumen moonlight modes, but mine meters (see pix above) at ~ 1/5th of the equivalent QAAX spec (although it probably explains how ZL claims 3x the runtime of the QAAX and D25AX). I believe you metered both the QAA2X and SC52 0.3 mode as having the same output? 

Sorry to belabor the point, but I use "bright" sub-lumen modes more than any other and just find that manufacturer spec exaggeration, or huge sample variability, in the 300%+ "off" range to be..... disappointing. No offense to the L10, I love my 3-mode N219 - gorgeous beam, super efficient, superb value, and with SB's "corn pad" idea, good for long-term use.


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## TweakMDS (Dec 3, 2013)

Love the review again. Thank your for that and for keeping up the scientific approach! I hope you will at least be rewarded by getting to keep this nice set 

I have a soft spot for single AA/AAA/CR123 lights, so this one has immediately been an interesting one, especially the Nichia 219 option (and - to be frank - only that one). 
However, to me it falls a bit in the middle between twisty AAA keychain lights, and full fledged EDC AA's with a clicky and pocket clip, such as the Eagletac D25A. What I mean to say is that it's too big to be a keychain light (for most) but it also lacks a pocket clip to chain it to the inside of my jacket.

With that, a light like this is immediately battling a few other very interesting lights for pocket space, like the Eagletac D25A Clicky Ti, Zebralight SC52, Spark SG3 and the Olight S15-Ti. Apart from price and weight, it's not winning many of those battles.

But I do wish more manufacturers picked their modes as well as this light has them, and more of them used the Nichia 219. Maybe I can still get myself to pick up a few L10's, just because of the shiny colors and nice emitter


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## MojaveMoon07 (Dec 4, 2013)

TweakMDS said:


> Maybe I can still get myself to pick up a few L10's, just because of the shiny colors and nice emitter



I have the orange L10 219, and the orange is very handsome. Except for one speck, the color on the body looks brand new even though I have used this daily for the last two or three months. The color on the head, however, is about 50% gone.



TweakMDS said:


> With that, a light like this is immediately battling a few other very interesting lights for pocket space, like the Eagletac D25A Clicky Ti, Zebralight SC52, Spark SG3 and the Olight S15-Ti. Apart from price and weight, it's not winning many of those battles.



The S15 and the Spark SG3 and SG5 have mode memory. One of the reasons why the L10 219 is so useful to me is that it always starts on low. I would prefer it if no manufacturer ever used mode memory.

For my needs, there is an important difference between the L10 219 and the D25A and S15. For an every day carry, I don't want to own a AA flashlight that does not have (a) if not a setting of approx 50 lumens, then a setting of approx 30 lumens and (b) a low of between 1-3 lumens. For me the lumens at (a) and (b) are so useful in my daily routines that they are my most used levels of brightness.

Using selfbuilt's measurements in his (review) of the D25A2, the first group starts at 8.9 lumens and then jumps to 90 lumens while the second group starts at 0.2 lumens and then jumps to 65 lumens. In his (review) of the S15, the S15 starts at 0.12 lumens, jumps to 8.4 lumens, and then jumps again to 110 lumens.

Regarding the SC52, I'm discouraged by how many people here have had a green tinted $ 64 SC52w. In complete honesty, I don't think I've seen even one testimony about something off about the tint of the L10 219; this $ 25 flashlight seems so far to have had 100% consistency in the tint among every customer that has posted on this forum and another. My family owns flashlights in the $ 60-something range; between now and when I joined this forum, I still regard $ 60-something as a premium-priced flashlight. By that I mean I have high expectations which is why I regard the SC52 tint lottery as not just disappointing but very disappointing.




TweakMDS said:


> What I mean to say is that it's too big to be a keychain light (for most) but it also lacks a pocket clip to chain it to the inside of my jacket.



There is a flashlight holster that I have that I think is perfect for this size AA flashlight and for AAA flashlights. At batteryjunction.com , search for "_Ultrafire holster_" and you'll find a result for a "_UltraFire Belt Clip Flashlight Holster - fits Olight T10 & T15 and similar small lights_". It seems well made, it's light, has a wide sturdy belt loop on the back of the holster, has a loop at the top as a second way to carry the holster, and is barely bigger than the L10 so there's no bulk created by carrying the L10 in it. What I'm offering is an imperfect solution to your situation, but because of the aspects of it that I listed it might make your situation manageable.

What I also like about the size of the L10 is that I can carry it in the side pouch of my Case Logic TBC-403 _(I keep my cell phone in the main pouch)_ along with a Thrunite Ti2 and still have room for a third similar sized light.

On high the L10 219 projects light to the same distance that my 4sevens MiNi AAx2 XPG on high does when I have to take trash out to the dumpster in the alley at night behind our residence.

After daily use of the Ti2 and the L10 219, I see the AAA, a flashlight the size of the L10, and a full fledged EDC AA as three separate categories. These two fit my needs so well that a full fledged EDC AA is something that I turn to only for what for me are out of the ordinary situations that those two aren't right for.

On a misc. note, I can comfortably hold the L10 pinned under my chin against my chest if I need my hands free.


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## doctordun (Dec 4, 2013)

On a side note, you can order a clip with the light for $1.50. It is not very robust, but works fine for me in my shirt pocket. The L10 is so light, that I hard know it's there. Oh and I love the Nichia 219.


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## EngrPaul (Dec 4, 2013)

I have 5 Cree XP-G2 and 3 Nichia 219. All four-mode.

I have noticed a definite trend:
*The LED's on all Crees are off-center, but the beam is acceptable. 
*The LED's on all Nichias are centered quite nicely.

I could see dirt on the emitter lenses of some of them with the naked eye. Under a microscope I discovered it's unmelted solder paste and is also smeared elsewhere around the base of the emitters. There are also small "curly fry" shavings of metal and white plastic adhered to the lens.

One of my samples had the front glass o-ring sticking up on the air on arrival. I could not tuck it in, so I had to pay to ship it back and wait for a replacement.

A variety of output flux on the lower two levels within each group. I expect this may be partly due to the Vf of the emitter, partly due to variations in the driver.

Gorgeous anodizing and an overall good value, especially the Nichia version which takes the advantage in beam spread and tint. I consider the pocket clips a must-have.

Thanks for the runtimes and the review.


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## riccardo (Dec 5, 2013)

*L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

Pocket clip is a must have if you are ready to glue it in place with some epoxy... otherwise is too easy to come off to rely on it.


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## doctordun (Dec 5, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*



riccardo said:


> Pocket clip is a must have if you are ready to glue it in place with some epoxy... otherwise is too easy to come off to rely on it.



Actually I used what is called a removable glue dot under the clip and it isn't going anywhere. What is nice about the glue dot is that it is easily removable.


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## riccardo (Dec 5, 2013)

*L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

I used epoxy, I like how il look and I can be sure it will not fall off even if pulled hard..

Was it so hard to design a reliable clip? A couple of small screws would have served well and would work alone as anti roll system even without clip installed.

This is to my mind the only defect of an almost perfect flashlight. Anyway nothing to worry..


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## Mr Floppy (Dec 7, 2013)

EngrPaul said:


> *The LED's on all Nichias are centered quite nicely.



I have one L10 219 and one Xeno E03 219. Both LED's were off centre. The E03 was worse but both beams were fine. Well, the L10 was so slightly off you couldn't really tell without measuring it.


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## rickypanecatyl (Dec 8, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*



psychbeat said:


> I wish they made an 18650 version!



+1


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## Trident1 (Dec 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

I have a bunch of the L10's all with 219. Great light and tint like all have mentioned. I'm always looking to use my 14500's in AA lights knowing the trade-offs. None of my AW or Keeppower 14500's fit for normal operation. Both too tall and the head only screws on 2/3 of the way. Making contact to turn on/off or switch modes is difficult. Has anybody found protected 14500's that work with this light?


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## DaFABRICATA (Dec 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*



Trident1 said:


> I have a bunch of the L10's all with 219. Great light and tint like all have mentioned. I'm always looking to use my 14500's in AA lights knowing the trade-offs. None of my AW or Keeppower 14500's fit for normal operation. Both too tall and the head only screws on 2/3 of the way. Making contact to turn on/off or switch modes is difficult. Has anybody found protected 14500's that work with this light?



I too bought a bunch of these to give as gifts. I still have 3 for myself since some people didnt show up.
Using the Eagletac or AW 14500's I've had no problems and the amount of light on high is pretty cool! 
One of them did get opened up so I can use the driver in another light. It's a stacked design with a small board on top of a larger one. I'll post pics of the driver later if anyone would like to see what it looks like.


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## Mr Floppy (Dec 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*



DaFABRICATA said:


> I'll post pics of the driver later if anyone would like to see what it looks like.



Yes please!


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## selfbuilt (Dec 29, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*



Trident1 said:


> None of my AW or Keeppower 14500's fit for normal operation. Both too tall and the head only screws on 2/3 of the way. Making contact to turn on/off or switch modes is difficult. Has anybody found protected 14500's that work with this light?


Hmm, worked fine on my AW protected 14500 cells. Yes, they are a little taller than standard cells. But the lights still worked normally.


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## Trident1 (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: L3 Illumination L10 (XP-G2 R5 or Nichia 219, 1xAA) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMS, V...*

Not sure why I have the problem. 2 AW's and 5 Keeppower's all a little on the long side for the lights. Regular AA's are perfect fit. Granted, AW's are closer to "good" fit, but head much harder to operate. Keeppowers noticeably longer and pretty much not usable on these lights.


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## stevo250 (Dec 30, 2013)

I was going to try kinko imr button top 14500 cells in mine soon. Much shorter and still button top so should work I think. Just gotta be careful on heat buildup in such a small light


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## tallboybass (Jan 6, 2014)

Any chance of run time chart on 14500?


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## selfbuilt (Jan 6, 2014)

tallboybass said:


> Any chance of run time chart on 14500?


No. 

As my results show, both Hi and Turbo on 14500 are extremely bright - frankly, I would not consider these levels appropriate for extended runtime on 14500. 

I could do a runtime on the Med level, but that won't really tell you much. FYI, when matched for output, 14500 tends to give exactly the same runtime as 2000mAh NiMH. The reason for this is that their ability to do work is pretty much the same (i.e., W=VC). So a 3.7V nominal 750mAh 14500 (2775 mAhV) is close to a 1.2V nominal 2000mAh NiMH (2400 mAhV) in terms of total runtime.


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## tallboybass (Jan 6, 2014)

The term 'mAhV' is new to me. Are you saying that if there were equivalent settings of say, 100 lumens available using 14500's and Eneloops that the runtimes would be very similar between the two? Hope this isn't an ignorant question. 

(I would be very interested to see a runtime chart on the Low setting with 14500, being a very usable ~73 lumens.)


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## selfbuilt (Jan 6, 2014)

tallboybass said:


> Are you saying that if there were equivalent settings of say, 100 lumens available using 14500's and Eneloops that the runtimes would be very similar between the two?


That's it exactly. The Li-ion 14500 will show slightly "flatter" regulation, but otherwise runtime will be about the same.

I'm a little swamped with other lights right now, so won't have time to do the lower runtime - sorry.


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## tallboybass (Jan 6, 2014)

I know you're a busy man, no prob! 

So, the main decider on runtime charts for 14500 operation is whether or not the factory says it supports that...is that a fair statement?

Think I'll do an unofficial test, using an AW IMR 14500 on the Low setting, just for my own curiosity.

EDIT: It easily went 3 1/2 hours.


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## THE_dAY (Jan 9, 2014)

Your comparison pics made me realize just how small and thin this light is.
Very helpful info, thank you selfbuilt!



tallboybass said:


> Think I'll do an unofficial test, using an AW IMR 14500 on the Low setting, just for my own curiosity.
> 
> EDIT: It easily went 3 1/2 hours.


Thanks for that! 
Did the light stay in regulation the whole time or taper to lower brightness during end?

Was this the Nichia 219 or the XPG2 version?


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## dts71 (Jan 9, 2014)

tallboybass said:


> The term 'mAhV' is new to me



The usual term is mWh ( A * V = W , Ah * V = Wh ) and the m is just a prefix for milli.


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## dts71 (Jan 10, 2014)

double


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## tallboybass (Jan 10, 2014)

THE_dAY said:


> Thanks for that!
> Did the light stay in regulation the whole time or taper to lower brightness during end?
> 
> Was this the Nichia 219 or the XPG2 version?


Pretty sure it wasn't regulated, as it started bright and tapered through the run.

This was the Nichia version.

...and yes, this is about as small as a AA light can be. I'm loving mine with the 14500, it holds a very usable moonlight mode, gives you 80ish lumens on low and then 200ish+ lumens on med. High is almost imperceptibly higher so I don't bother, making this a really nice 3-mode light on li-ion.


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## revscott (Jan 14, 2014)

I have the L10 Nichia 219 4 mode, and the twist action seems tight to me. I cleaned and lubed the threads, but I think the tight feel is more from the do-nut/washer thing rubbing against the battery. It also feels like the battery is twisting inside as well. Maybe this is all normal. The mode switching is fine, but not smooth compared to my Foursevens Mini MA and especially the Olight I3s (which is the smoothest of my lights). Just wondering if I'm missing something. Not a big deal, and I really do like this light.


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## markr6 (Jan 14, 2014)

revscott said:


> I have the L10 Nichia 219 4 mode, and the twist action seems tight to me. I cleaned and lubed the threads, but I think the tight feel is more from the do-nut/washer thing rubbing against the battery. It also feels like the battery is twisting inside as well. Maybe this is all normal. The mode switching is fine, but not smooth compared to my Foursevens Mini MA and especially the Olight I3s (which is the smoothest of my lights). Just wondering if I'm missing something. Not a big deal, and I really do like this light.



Yes the battery will rotate a little. The action is also somewhat tight especially when compared to something like the Olight i3 - I'm guessing because those threads are huge compared to the razorblade-narrow threads on the L10.


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## THE_dAY (Jan 14, 2014)

tallboybass said:


> Pretty sure it wasn't regulated, as it started bright and tapered through the run.
> 
> This was the Nichia version.
> 
> ...and yes, this is about as small as a AA light can be. I'm loving mine with the 14500, it holds a very usable moonlight mode, gives you 80ish lumens on low and then 200ish+ lumens on med. High is almost imperceptibly higher so I don't bother, making this a really nice 3-mode light on li-ion.



Thanks for that!
I have a Fenix E15 (w/ 219) for my keychain daily use and just started using IMR16340.
I get similar results, med now starts at 200+ lumens and low is around 40 lumens for 4.5hrs with steady regulation.
High level is too similar to medium so don't even use it.

I wanted to try the L10 L3 Nichia 219 version with 14500 but now that I'm using IMR16340 in the E15 it is giving similar results.
Big plus for me is E15 starts on med so 200+ nichia lumens with first twist


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## revscott (Jan 14, 2014)

Anyone figured out a simple way to smooth out the sharp edges on tail cap for lanyard hole? I don't own a Dremel.


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## Impulses (Jan 20, 2014)

Hi, I'm looking at both this L10 and the Xeno E03 for backup duties (car, basement, etc) and I've seen people debating the pros/cons of either a fair bit, however there's something that jumps out at me and I just don't see anyone talking about it... The L10 seems to be significantly more efficient on medium when using alkalines, pulling off a 6-7 hour runtime whereas looking back at the E03 review it wasn't even managing 5 hours... It's a little hard to draw direct comparisons since there's a small lumens discrepancy and so many different emitters etc to contend with, plus the fact that some were only run thru on alkalines (I imagine it can only get better with NiMH tho, no?).

Am I missing something? Is this discrepancy context/age related since the E03 review quite a bit older, or is the L10 just much more efficient? The E03 kinda appealed to me more due to the clicky interface, better build quality, lack of moonlight (just a hassle for a twisty backup light IMO, even though I'd value it elsewhere), and even the gimmicky GitD accents... But efficiency kinda trumps all that in my book. Are there any other similar clicky budget lights I should be looking at? Was looking to stay at or under $30, size isn't a big deal (again, they're gonna be stored most of the time, bigger's probably better just so it's easier to reach for then needed).


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## Mr Floppy (Jan 20, 2014)

Impulses said:


> The L10 seems to be significantly more efficient on medium when using alkalines, pulling off a 6-7 hour runtime whereas looking back at the E03 review it wasn't even managing 5 hours...



The E03 doesn't have a medium, it's high, low and lower ... but yes, the E03 on medium has a much higher current draw. It's 150mA to the LED so with the boost circuit it does about 0.50A from the tail cap. The L10 is 0.25mA from the tail cap.


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## Impulses (Jan 21, 2014)

Okay, but are you saying there's a big discrepancy in brightness between the E03's med/low setting and the L3's mid setting? Cause it looked like 5-10 lumen on the graphs (going off memory here) and I keep reading about how such differences are relatively minor cause of how we perceive light etc etc... Or are you just saying that yeah the E03's just particularly more efficient at that particular range?


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## Mr Floppy (Jan 21, 2014)

Impulses said:


> Cause it looked like 5-10 lumen on the graphs (going off memory here) and I keep reading about how such differences are relatively minor cause of how we perceive light etc etc..



No, it's 5-10 Relative Output Values. To convert that into lumen, you need to use Selfbuilts lume estimation formulas (plural as the L10 is is ROV < 25 and the E03 is ROV > 25). 



Impulses said:


> Or are you just saying that yeah the E03's just particularly more efficient at that particular range?



Bottom line is that the E03 drives the LED harder than the L10 on the respective medium/mid levels. More current to the LED on the E03 than the L10 so more boost required from the battery.


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## Impulses (Jan 22, 2014)

Thanks, I was clearly overlooking a few things in reading those results.


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## ipig (Jan 24, 2014)

Hi guys, soon to be newb L10 owner here. 

Have a couple battery questions.

On the topic of 14500 batteries, thinking AW, not sure which

AWIMR14500

AW14500P

My understanding is the Black AW14500P is the better of the two but the button looks a bit more recessed on it compared to the Red/Orange AWIMR14500 ??

I noticed some one posted earlier about having fitment problems while others did not. Any further opinion/suggestions on this?

Also, i noticed a mention of the CR14505 CRAA battery earlier which seems kinda nifty too, (but flat looking button!) opinions on fitment of those?

I'm just wondering what if anything i need to consider in re: modifying foam pad etc.

Edit: Ordered an XTAR VP1 to go along with things.

Seems like a great product, excited to get it.


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## Phaserburn (Jan 24, 2014)

Just received an L10 219 and like it very much. However, shortly after receiving it, it now only functions as a single mode (medium it seems). Any idea why or how to correct? I've tried different cells and cleaning the threads. I'm mystified.


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## selfbuilt (Jan 26, 2014)

ipig said:


> My understanding is the Black AW14500P is the better of the two but the button looks a bit more recessed on it compared to the Red/Orange AWIMR14500 ??
> Also, i noticed a mention of the CR14505 CRAA battery earlier which seems kinda nifty too, (but flat looking button!) opinions on fitment of those?.


The red AW are unprotected IMR cells, intended for high-drain devices. There are not required here, and you are always better off using protected ICR cells (i.e., the black ones). Although again, I do not recommend running the L10 on Hi on 14500.

As for 14505 primaries, these didn't work on my samples (likely due to length and/or foam pad issues). But it may work without the foam.




Phaserburn said:


> Just received an L10 219 and like it very much. However, shortly after receiving it, it now only functions as a single mode (medium it seems). Any idea why or how to correct? I've tried different cells and cleaning the threads. I'm mystified.


Hmmm, sounds like a circuit issue. You may want to see about RMAing.


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## yoyoman (Jan 26, 2014)

The red AW IMR cells excel in high drain applications and do fine under normal loads. They do not have over discharge protection and you should be careful and check the voltage with a simple meter. 

White Nichia 219 running on an Eneloop, i3s AAA (for size comprison) and orange XP-G2 running on an AW 14500 IMR (GITD o-ring is on the body and not the seam.)


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## ipig (Jan 29, 2014)

Got my Natural 4 mode XPG2R5 L10 today and I'm really pleased with the overall quality. 

The clip falls short of its $2.50 add-on price though :/

Not sure if i'm going to glue it on or what yet.


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## markr6 (Jan 29, 2014)

ipig said:


> The clip falls short of its $2.50 add-on price though :/
> 
> Not sure if i'm going to glue it on or what yet.



Yeah that's the only thing really keeping me from EDC'ing this thing full time. I know I can rig something up, but it will look like crap (epoxy, weld, whatever). I don't care to do that.


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## Mr Floppy (Jan 29, 2014)

markr6 said:


> I know I can rig something up, but it will look like crap (epoxy, weld, whatever). I don't care to do that.



I have a design that I want to get 3D printed. Basically it makes use of the lanyard hole at the back, but still designing a way to secure it in the hole


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## ipig (Jan 29, 2014)

I would say the clip securing to the L10 is just as important as the strength/retention of the clip itself. 

This clip really fails on both fronts. 

I'm not sure about +/-permanently attaching this clip to the L10, as its flimsiness is a real issue.

If anyone has a recommendation (from another flashlight) of some sort i'd like to know.


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## ChrisGarrett (Jan 29, 2014)

I just got my orange 4-mode, XP-G2 with pocket clip today, although I have't put the clip, or split ring, on yet.

I've got a Xeno E03 XM-L T5 neutral, Icon Rogue 1 Q5 and a Shining Beam I-Mini XP-G R5 with 1xAA extender (also have the 2xAA,) so those are my only single AA lights.

Couple of quick thoughts as I was running out to the Miami Heat/OKC Thunder game when the light arrived:

I thought that the 'head gap' might disappear with certain AA batteries, but it's there on a CVS, a GP ReCyKo, an AccuPower 2900, a Duracell, an Energizer and a Gen. 2 Eneloop.

It's a big gap and the thread timing could have been a lot more precise, but that's an aesthetics' nit.

I'm getting etching in my button tops and negative base plates, so backing things off going forward, will help minimize said etching.

My unprotected Sanyo 840mAh cell doesn't make contact due to it being a shallow flattop. This cell doesn't work in my Rogue 1, or I-Mini, either without a spacer of some sort.

Threads were a little dirty out of the box, but I lubed them up with a dab of Nyogel 760G and went on my merry way. When I got home from the game, I actually cleaned the threads and reapplied the lube.

Empty light has little mass and reminds me of my new Olight i3s--light as a feather.

I love the spread, much like the i3s, the moonlight mode, and low mode can be very useful and heck, on HI, the light throws well for its size. I had it outside walking to and from the arena in darkened areas, even shining it off of a patio and 60' away was illuminated, even with light pollution from the arena, it cut though the warm tint and lit up the cement below.

I might get an O-ring, something like a GITD doohickey and place it in (over) the gap and see if I can't bumper the head against the body and eliminate the brass showing via the gap. 

It bugs me...what can I say?

I'm not hard on my pocket clips, so I don't expect this one to give me any problems, but I don't want to scratch the light up putting it on and I might soap it up a bit before pressing it in place.

As best that I can tell, my XP-G2 is centered within the OP reflector, so I'm good there and that's not a problem after reading this thread.

All in all, for <$28, it's a very nice light and if the head screwed down a bit more into the body, where that gap was minimized a tad more, I'd completely be a happy camper.

Chris


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## Impulses (Jan 30, 2014)

How's the flood on the L10 vs your XM-L E03? I'm about to get a couple of the E03's for my parents (hopefully retire the last of their incans or crappy 9 LED lights) and had just about settled on it because of the clicky, the GitD bits, and even the size (a little larger's actually better for around the house, for them, harder to lose!)... The L10 was my second choice though. Might go for one of each but I'm a little worried about them damaging some cells by overtightening.

I bet that Heat/Thunder game was amazing, the way the Durantula's playing lately... I'll have to remember not to check this thread before watching it (DVR'd!).


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## ChrisGarrett (Jan 30, 2014)

I love my little Xeno E03. They're now selling an improved model, with more output and hidden SOS, strobe and beacon modes. 

Mine is just the 3 mode older V3 version. I run it entirely on a naked Sanyo 840mAh and it pretty much screams on high, (~400LM for NW vs. 110LM using an AA) but then the low pretty much becomes a typical medium and the medium is just another high, lol.

The LD10 is substantially smaller than the E03. A good 3/4" shorter and probably 3/16" narrower. This also means that the E03 has a much larger reflector, so it should be a better thrower, even on an AA battery.

I'll take them out tonight and see what I see, as far as beam patterns go and report back.

Chris


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## yoyoman (Jan 30, 2014)

I have Xeno E03 with a Nichia 219. It is substantially bigger than the L10 and not just because of the clicky. It does throw more than the L10. But the beam is not as nice as the L10's beam. Some rings and artifacts. The L10 beam is very floody and useful. The L10 is a very good value light. 

The only cell I've found that eliminates the gap is the AW IMR 14500. The L10 does not have low voltage warning or cut off and I check the voltage of the cell periodically or whenever I use the light for a long period.


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## doctordun (Jan 30, 2014)

ipig said:


> I would say the clip securing to the L10 is just as important as the strength/retention of the clip itself.
> 
> This clip really fails on both fronts.
> 
> ...



I stated this on an earlier thread, but I used what is called a Glue Dot under the clip. It is a clear dot of stickiness and holds the clip in place very well.
If you have ever received a new credit card, it's the same glue that holds your card to the paper in the envelope.
It also has the advantage of being easily removable.


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## Impulses (Jan 30, 2014)

Magazines and perfume samples often have strips of that stuff, it's like those sticky elastic hand toys you may have played with as a child no? Wonder if anyone sells new slices that you can trim or resize for specific uses. I'm sure it's gotta have a name or some kinda glue classification... Is there a stickystuff or gluepower forum out there?  Edit: Duh, you said it, Glue Dots.


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## doctordun (Jan 30, 2014)

I just gave the brand name....."Glue Dots". Comes in different sticky strengths. Found at your local office supply or wally world.


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## markr6 (Jan 30, 2014)

The E03 is throwier. I have posted a pic somewhere and will try to find it:

here we go (from this thread, and tons of info on the E03)


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## mcorp (Feb 4, 2014)

Just want to give a heads up for those who intend on purchasing this whether its for personal use or for gifting from SBFlashlights. 
I recently purchased two L10s, one 4 mode nichia and one 3 mode xpg2. The nichia was awesome and was nicely centred. However, the xpg2 is faulty, when you unscrew to drop in a AA battery, it unscrews to show a emitter instead.






Thankfully for my case I had great service from SBFlashlights and they were willing to do a one for one exchange! 
So please remember to request for your light to be thoroughly checked when you are purchasing your new light, in order to prevent having the unnecessary hassle of having to ship it back to get it replaced!


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## liquidrazer (Sep 24, 2014)

totes buying one of these! ANDDD the l10C with the CLICKY! thanks selfbuilt!


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## GordoJones88 (Sep 25, 2014)

*totes*

/tōts/

_adverb __informal_

adverb: *totes*;


totally
"It's summer so it's light all the time plus the scenery is totes amazing." 
 
Origin:






early 21st century: alteration of totally


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## GordoJones88 (Sep 25, 2014)

liquidrazer said:


> totes buying one of these! ANDDD the l10C with the CLICKY! thanks selfbuilt!



I just bought an L10 Natural XPG2 3-mode last week.
After receiving it I bought an L10C Natural Nichia 3-mode.

There is a small discount code you can use.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?181841-quot-CPF-Specials-quot-webpages-dealers


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## radellaf (Oct 5, 2014)

Just got in a 4-mode natural with a nichia. Is it normal for these to not work so well with drained alkalines? i.e., as a "vamprire flashlight"?

The Zebralight SC51 and 52, and Quark minis, will all come on and can pull 40-200mA off the cell depending on mode. The L10, at first, would come on but only after a few seconds delay. Now, with the battery well below 0.7V under load, it won't turn on at all.


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## Tapis (Oct 5, 2014)

I bought a Fenix E05 for my 7-years-old daughter, but she complains that the head is just too stiff and does not rotate easily. She sometimes asks me to turn the light on and off. Will this light be nicer to her little fingers?


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## radellaf (Oct 6, 2014)

The L10 I just got is pretty tight. I don't have little fingers and still wish it was a bit easier to twist. Maybe the L10C clicky?

The loosest 1xAA (or 2xAA) twisty I know of is the Quark Mini AA. I have three (cool, CRI, warm) and all are very easy one-hand operation. I've also used The Fenix LD01 and L0D 1xAAA lights which were extremely easy to turn and never came on accidentally. Sad to hear the E05 isn't as nice.


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## Tapis (Oct 6, 2014)

Great! Thanks radellaf, I didn't know there is a clicky version of the L10. This light has a perfect 4 modes levels for me. However, it's not available in the places I usually shop, Illumin and Going Gear, and Sbflashlights doesn't have the Thrunite T10 or Olight SR15 lights I want to purchase as well to combine shipment. Any idea where I could get these lights? eBay has no L10C. Thanks in advance.


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## TMedina (Dec 2, 2014)

Tapis said:


> I bought a Fenix E05 for my 7-years-old daughter, but she complains that the head is just too stiff and does not rotate easily. She sometimes asks me to turn the light on and off. Will this light be nicer to her little fingers?



If you apply a dab of silicone lube to the threads of the E05, it'll be as smooth as butter and probably a lot easier for your daughter to use.


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## markr6 (Dec 2, 2014)

Tapis said:


> I bought a Fenix E05 for my 7-years-old daughter, but she complains that the head is just too stiff and does not rotate easily. She sometimes asks me to turn the light on and off. Will this light be nicer to her little fingers?



I also find the E05 scratchy, tight and hard to operate with one hand. I miss high mode a lot. Horrible tint anyway so it sits on my shelf. I really like the L10, especially after cleaning and a little Superlube. The Olight i3s, which I no longer have, was the easiest of all. I couldn't imagine a AAA light being any better in terms of operation with one hand.


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## neutralwhite (Dec 2, 2014)

Heard from illumination supply that they won't be stocking the L10C because of reliability issues.
its a good little light, but shame about hearing this.


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## markr6 (Dec 2, 2014)

neutralwhite said:


> Heard from illumination supply that they won't be stocking the L10C because of reliability issues.
> its a good little light, but shame about hearing this.



That's interesting. I ended up selling mine recently. Quality seemed great, slim, good clip, but I just didn't like cycling thru with the clicky. I never thought I would prefer the twist head on the L10, but I do.


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## 5S8Zh5 (Jan 19, 2015)

Another selfbuilt review that lead to a purchase. ..  .. I got the natural. I like the twist UI, and the .09 moonlight is useful to me, walking through a couple almost pitch black rooms in the morning. Nice flood beam too. If it had the Preon A0 mule non-reflector, it'd be even better.


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## 5S8Zh5 (Jan 21, 2015)

mcorp said:


> Just want to give a heads up for those who intend on purchasing this whether its for personal use or for gifting from SBFlashlights.
> I recently purchased two L10s, one 4 mode nichia and one 3 mode xpg2. The nichia was awesome and was nicely centred. However, the xpg2 is faulty, when you unscrew to drop in a AA battery, it unscrews to show a emitter instead.
> 
> 
> ...



An L10 mule! Too bad about the return as I'd love to see some beamshots. ....


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## mcorp (Jan 21, 2015)

Well that'll be impossible since unscrewing the head to access the battery compartment lead to this. 

Perhaps a special L10 mule run in 219 can be made? [emoji317]


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## Burgess (Jul 25, 2019)

doctordun said:


> Selfbuilt, would you have an estimate of runtime of the Nichia 219 medium 30 lumen level with and eneloop 2000?
> Short of running a test, is there a formula for something like this.
> Thanks.




Performed my own runtime test today, 
using Energizer L91 Ultimate Lithium AA cell
(mfg. 7/2014) (expires 12/2034)


Nichia 219 on Medium mode (30 Lumens) 
lasted 14.5 Hours in perfect regulation.

By 15 Hours, had dropped by 4.7 f/stops
(measured on my Sekonic DC308 meter)
This means output is now at 0.04%,
or 1/25th of original output of 30 Lumens.

By 18 Hours, had dropped 6 additional 
f/stops. Thus, 1/64th of the 15 Hr. reading.

By my humble calculations, that means
an output of about 0.018 Lumens.


That's approx. 1/3 of Firefly mode !

Pretty Damn DIM by this point,
but not *TOTALLY* useless.


Must say --
I certainly DO like this light.

Wish all those lovely Colors were still available !


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## spc (Jul 27, 2019)

If they made this out of ti...


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## Kindle (Jul 29, 2019)

spc said:


> If they made this out of ti...



...I'd be happy if they didn't break when you sneeze in the general direction.


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## Ell399 (Aug 4, 2019)

Kindle said:


> ...I'd be happy if they didn't break when you sneeze in the general direction.



Same happened to me. Such a pain. Other than that, what a quality piece of kit!


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## Mr. Shawn (Aug 6, 2019)

Kindle said:


> ...I'd be happy if they didn't break when you sneeze in the general direction.



Might be luck of the draw, but I've been carrying my orange 4-mode L10 Nichia 219 as my primary ENC (EveryNight Carry) after dark and while sleeping since Dec 2012 , and it's still going strong. Granted, it hasn't seen much adversity at night, but I dropped it twice last night onto laminate floor from 4 feet up, and the twisty torch still works as expected.

Thinking about getting the same model in natural finish while they are still available.


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## iamlucky13 (Aug 7, 2019)

Mr. Shawn said:


> Might be luck of the draw, but I've been carrying my orange 4-mode L10 Nichia 219 as my primary ENC (EveryNight Carry) after dark and while sleeping since Dec 2012 , and it's still going strong. Granted, it hasn't seen much adversity at night, but I dropped it twice last night onto laminate floor from 4 feet up, and the twisty torch still works as expected.
> 
> Thinking about getting the same model in natural finish while they are still available.



I'm glad to know some samples seem to survive drops.

My L11C died falling onto laminate flooring from a 30" tall desk.

From opening it up, I think the solder joints between the inductor and the PCB (which the battery hammers against if it lands bezel down) are cracked, but it's really hard to tell, even after photographing it with a macro lens.

There's no room to try to resolder it with an iron, but if I ever have access to a hot air station, I'd like to see if I can fix it.

It's been sitting in a drawer, broken, for well over a year. I haven't seen any light since then that seems like it would make a better EDC for my purposes.

I hesitate to buy a new one since I might kill it just as easily, but in the meantime I make do with a variety of other lights depending on the situation.

SB Flashlights could probably convince me to replace it if they'd offer closeout pricing on anything other than their 10 random light grab bags.


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 14, 2019)

Mr. Shawn said:


> Might be luck of the draw, but I've been carrying my orange 4-mode L10 Nichia 219 as my primary ENC (EveryNight Carry) after dark and while sleeping since Dec 2012 , and it's still going strong. Granted, it hasn't seen much adversity at night, but I dropped it twice last night onto laminate floor from 4 feet up, and the twisty torch still works as expected.
> 
> Thinking about getting the same model in natural finish while they are still available.



I too have a 4-5 year old orange 4 mode that runs well when I fire it up! It fell out of my pocket once, but it doesn’t run on protected 14500s.

Chris


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## Mr. Shawn (Aug 16, 2019)

iamlucky13 said:


> I'm glad to know some samples seem to survive drops.
> 
> My L11C died falling onto laminate flooring from a 30" tall desk.
> 
> ...



I do recall seeing multiple failure reports with the clicky models, but not as many reports with the twisty models. Maybe you'd have better luck with the existing stock for sale?

I would love to see closeout pricing on the other L3 Illumination items. I do check their website regularly.



ChrisGarrett said:


> I too have a 4-5 year old orange 4 mode that runs well when I fire it up! It fell out of my pocket once, but it doesn’t run on protected 14500s.
> 
> Chris



Great to hear, Chris! I'm content with using Eneloops/Duraloops in my L10.


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