# Drill press vs. mill vs. mortiser vs. lathe?



## milkyspit (May 17, 2004)

This has been festering in the recesses of my brain for quite a while. Could someone offer a clear description of what each of these things (drill press, mill, mortiser, lathe) does? As far as I can tell, they all turn, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless. I suspect a lathe is the most full-featured (and expensive) of the bunch, and can do quite a few things. What about the others, though? How much can you do with a drill press? What does a mill do that a drill press can't? What the heck is a mortiser, anyway, and can it double as a drill press or mill?

When it comes to machine tools, I'm a total newbie... but definitely appreciate the help!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## theepdinker (May 18, 2004)

Scott, A drill press is intended to give you control of a basic drilling step. Used with the press, different holding gizmos allow depth & angle control we don't have working freehand. Think of a mill as a very precise drill press that can also remove metal by moving your work piece left/right and forward/back. A lathe spins metal on a horizontal axis. With your work piece turning on the lathe you cut & shape to size with cutting tools attached to the lathe in a tool holder of one sort or another. The only mortiser I'm aware of is for woodworking. I don't do wood YUCK./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banned2.gif See my post "Your project".
Theepdinker


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## McGizmo (May 18, 2004)

Scott,

In metal machining:
A drill press is used almost exclusively for boring holes. It has the strength needed for applying pressure on axis of the rotating drill bit. A mill can be used as a drill press but in addition to haveing the strength and rigidity of applying a force on axis of the cutting tool, it can handle heavy loads off axis and perpindicular to the cutting tool.

On a mill, the cutting tool rotates and the work piece is fed into the cutting tool, typically via movement on three axisis (sp); x,y and x. On a lathe, the work piece rotates and the cutting tool is fed into the work piece; lontitudinally (turning and boring), perpindicularly (facing and grooving) or via a compound slide (used in tapers and threading)

In woodwork:
I am weak on this one too but one confusing term to outsiders is a milling. I believe in terms of wood, you can mill some lumber with a planer which will cut a flat plane on the surface of a board. A metal working mill can also be used to put a flat plane on a piece of metal. An aluminum head from a car engine is often milled if it has warped. This provides a flat surface for mating to the engine block.

In general, I think the term milling refers to cutting a flat surface in a single plane on the material, be it wood or metal. The tools for doing this are very different!

A woodworkers lathe is similar to a metal lathe but on the metal lathe the cutting tool is held rigid by the tool post and the tool post is moved on various ways. On a wood workers lathe, the cutting tool is held and the hand of the wood worker and a steady rest is used for support of the tool but the tool is moved by hand. Turning wood is real fun and theraputic, me thinks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Then again, so is making metal chips. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Oh yeah, jewlers have a tool that looks like a bench grinder but will hold burrs as well as buffing wheels. They call this a lathe! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


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## gadget_lover (May 18, 2004)

I was talking with a high school shop teacher just this afternoon. He stated "I hardly ever use a metal lathe anymore because I have a CNC milling machine. If I want a round piece, I just tell it to cut it round." I then asked if he'd try rounded surfaces on his milling machine if it was not CNC. He said that he'd use a lathe in that case.

CNC means computer controlled, by the way.

I don't think you can cut threads on a manual milling machine, but I could be wrong there. 

There are many mortising systems. The ones I'm familiar with cut pockets of a specific size and shape for something (like a door hinge or table leg) to fit into.

I wonder if the CPF motto applies here too.... "Buy all three".


Daniel


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## McGizmo (May 18, 2004)

As I recall, there were some NC machines first which were numerically controlled; you input the numbers and the machine followed them. Then came Computer Numerically Controlled.

A CNC mill would be real sweet for sure but they won't be putting lathes out to pasture any time soon! Turning round barstock into flashlight heads and battery tubes is much quicker and easier on a lathe than on a mill, IMHO.


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## gadget_lover (May 18, 2004)

I almost forgot....

You can get some of the usefulness of a milling machine by buying a cross-slide vice for your drill press. This is a vice which attaches to the drill press table . It has screw adjustments to move the work front and back as well as side to side. It won't have the precision feed of a mill, but does allow you to do things like make nice neat rows of holes.

I just ordered some end mills to use with my drill press to see if I can do simple slotting and surfacing and stuff. I'll have to take it slow, and it won't be very accurate, but it's worth a try. I'll report back on the results in a few weeks. 

The cross slide vises can be ordered from Harbor Freight. I picked up a 4 inch unit for under $40.

Daniel


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## McGizmo (May 18, 2004)

You can also get X-Y tables for reasonable prices which will clamp on the drill press table and then your vice clamps on top of them. They aid in similar manner.


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## James S (May 18, 2004)

Slightly off topic, I bought some new drill bits for the press and hand drill the other day. I got some with the DeWalt name on them thinking that was a good tool maker. They are the kind that claim to not wander, but start themselves. The larger bits have a little starter bit sticking out from the end, and then the drills themselves start flat maybe an 8th of an inch later. And they suck beyond belief.

Don't buy these kind of bits!

The little bit drills into the wood, and then when the flat of the full size part hits the wood it rips it to shreds and augers itself in at full speed. On the drill press I actually had it rip a piece of wood out of my hand and screw it up the shaft all the way to the chuck and there was no way I could stop it. I've never had that happen before. It was patently impossible to drill anything approaching a clean hole with them in a piece of wood, I don't know about metal, but I can't think it will be any better, only worse. I tried various speeds and angles and techniques and there is no way that these work for a darn.

Get traditional V shaped bits.

I'm returning these tomorrow if I can find the receipt. They suck.


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## McGizmo (May 18, 2004)

James,

Sounds like the bit wants to become a lead screw! I haven't seen these bits but it sounds like you need to clamp your work piece down well for any hope of success?


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## cy (May 18, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*James S said:*
Slightly off topic, I bought some new drill bits for the press and hand drill the other day. I got some with the DeWalt name on them thinking that was a good tool maker. They are the kind that claim to not wander, but start themselves. The larger bits have a little starter bit sticking out from the end, and then the drills themselves start flat maybe an 8th of an inch later. And they suck beyond belief.

Don't buy these kind of bits!

The little bit drills into the wood, and then when the flat of the full size part hits the wood it rips it to shreds and augers itself in at full speed. On the drill press I actually had it rip a piece of wood out of my hand and screw it up the shaft all the way to the chuck and there was no way I could stop it. I've never had that happen before. It was patently impossible to drill anything approaching a clean hole with them in a piece of wood, I don't know about metal, but I can't think it will be any better, only worse. I tried various speeds and angles and techniques and there is no way that these work for a darn.

Get traditional V shaped bits.

I'm returning these tomorrow if I can find the receipt. They suck. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You got specialized wood bits. They will not work for metal, as you found out.


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## alanz (May 18, 2004)

To be more specific,

One drills a hole in metal... one bores a hole in wood.


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## James S (May 18, 2004)

cy, the drilling I was describing was into a piece of 2x4. These things don't drill into ANYTHING worth a darn /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'll have to keep them since I can't find the receipt, but I know what I'll loan to my brother in law when he comes over to borrow tools /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## theepdinker (May 19, 2004)

James,
I'm very familiar with the bits you're so unhappy with. I use them daily on the job. Drilling metal the pilot tip saves time & effort. I had to use them on wood once and had the same experience as you. McGizmo is correct, they want to screw into wood. Lastly, it's always a good idea to secure your work piece to the press table.
Theepdinker


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## HarryN (May 20, 2004)

It sounds like I am the lone wood worker here - and - I like wood, of course it has limits.

In wood working, especially when making fine woodwork, there is a classic joint called a mortise and tennon. The mortise is a square hole, and a tennon is the square male side of the joint.

You can imagine that this joint developed from the days of wood working with a chisel and hand saw.

A mortising machine is similar to a drill press, in that the bit is able to rotate and the whole head goes up and down with a handle. The big difference is that there is also a hollow square shaped metal chisel assembly which surrounds the bit. On the higher end systems, this chisel setup will oscillate up and down while the bit is drilling, cutting the square hole. On lower end units, the operator does the vertical oscillation. This is a pretty specialized tool, and relatively few people own one.

In wood working, milling usually is referred to as edge work. You can think of this as a router bit which is mounted on a table. Edge molding is a good example of wood work performed with a wood working mill. In almost any city, you can still find large lumber stores that have a mill and will make custom wood molding in any shape your wife wants. - really a dangerous place to take wives - sort of like a CPF r visiting a flashlight factory outlet.

I will not elaborate on the lathe in metal or wood working.

I know that the lathe is a more common tool in this forum, but after seeing my brother (a trained machinist) work with a manual metal mill, I have to say that mills are probably a more flexible tool if you want to make lights and other things.

He has cut almost any shape, drilled and tapped holes, made screws, etc., all on a manual mill. Of course, he has a substantial skill and experience level on these things, and is a bit of a fanatic when it comes to precision.

That being said, if you look around, you can find a lot of small machine shops that are folding. This is bad, but the US market for decent CNC mills is now dirt cheap. If you can find one, there are many that you do not have to do the core CNC programming, you describe the shape and size you want, pick the tool on the screen, and it just does it.

This does take you one more step away from the joy, but it is so much faster and safer (usually more contained in a safey area) that I would seriously consider this if I had the space and money.


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## milkyspit (Jun 9, 2004)

Ya know, I was just rereading this thread, and it's *GRRRRRREAT!* (To quote Tony the Tiger of breakfast cereal fame.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

*Everyone*, THANKS! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

*McGizmo*, your description was extremely lucid and right on the mark. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

*HarryN*, thanks for filling in the woodworker's perspective. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
*HarryN said:*
That being said, if you look around, you can find a lot of small machine shops that are folding. This is bad, but the US market for decent CNC mills is now dirt cheap. If you can find one, there are many that you do not have to do the core CNC programming, you describe the shape and size you want, pick the tool on the screen, and it just does it.

This does take you one more step away from the joy, but it is so much faster and safer (usually more contained in a safey area) that I would seriously consider this if I had the space and money. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude! I would LOVE to have one of these CNC mills! I'm a programmer by trade, so this thing wouldn't take the joy away for me at all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

But where to find one, and how cheap is cheap? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Barring the CNC angle on things, sounds like I just might return the Craftsman drill press I bought a couple weeks ago, and go for a mill instead. Sounds like I'll be able to do more with that and still handle the drill press tasks with it.

THANKS FOR THE HELP FOLKS! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## PhotonFanatic (Jun 9, 2004)

Scott,

Money aside, you might find this to be of interest:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12577&item=3820318156&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It is a nice Emco CNC mill/lathe, small but perhaps that might work for you.


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## MoonRise (Jun 9, 2004)

Scott,

Cheap? Pennies on the dollar at auction. But that's still several thousand bucks, plus hauling, plus set-up. Oh yeah, those will be BIG machines. You won't pick them up by hand, and they aren't going to fit in your car. They need a big room, and usually big 3-phase power. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Like HarryN said, a mortising machine is a rather specialized woodworking tool. Not too applicable to cylindrical flashlights, but nice if you are into mortise-and-tenon joints for your wood furniture. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

A lathe spins the workpiece, it works well for cylindrical things like flashlights. A mill spins the bit, like a drill press, but is made to make sideways cuts not just straight up-n-down.

CPF slogan- but them all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif


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## gadget_lover (Jun 9, 2004)

I just got back from the high school where they have a small CNC mill in the drafting class. It runs off 110 volt power. The mill head is about the size of a drill press. It was about the size of the Harbor Freight mini-mill.

It was not light, but two people moved it easily.

They have a second one that's broken. I almost made an offer... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I might get the CNC lathe that is missing the controller cards in exchange for some computer work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Daniel


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## HarryN (Jun 10, 2004)

Yes, I might not have been entirely clear on what "dirt cheap" means. These machines new are routinely $ 50 K - 250 K, and now they are 5 - 10 cents / dollar. Most do require 3 phase power, and lots of it. (but this can be dealt with) The version you would search for is a "tool room mill"

The really stable ones weight a lot - they are mostly large cast iron structures. - sorry, did not mention this, I was dreaming or something.

For a home user, a mini mill would be better, or you might even find that a decent local machine shop will work with you a lot cheaper than historically. 

In the Toledo area, with nearly 20 % unemployment, and a large supply of shops and machinist, you can come very close to China prices for work.


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