# Any word yet on Firefoxes FF5?



## 3Cylinders (Feb 27, 2014)

Just wondering if anyone has heard any rumors or facts about Firefoxes making an FF5. Seems like it should be just around the corner and LEDs are catching up to HIDs quick!


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## BVH (Feb 27, 2014)

If anyone would know, it might be member Lips


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## freeme (Jul 15, 2020)

PM if anyone is interested.


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## One missed call 2 (Jul 15, 2020)

I am interested but cannot PM you. 

What are the specs?


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## Alex1234 (Jul 16, 2020)

https://deals.m4dm4x.com/2020/07/15/fire-foxes-ff5-xenon-hid-10000lm-2000m-4300k-6500k/
They are available here. I just ordered one with the available discount code. Fantastic price to performance ratio 

Specs are 100W Hid 
Lumens: 10,000
Lux: 1,000,000 CD or 2,000m throw


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## DayofReckoning (Jul 16, 2020)

Does anyone know the warranty info on these Firefoxes? I can never get an answer, and there is no website.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 16, 2020)

DayofReckoning said:


> Does anyone know the warranty info on these Firefoxes? I can never get an answer, and there is no website.




I am not sure of the warranty but having used the FF4 in the past for awhile i can assure you the quality is top notch and from the photos iv seen of the FF5 the quality took a big step up. I am excited for this one.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 17, 2020)

Just received a reply from the guy selling the Firefoxes FF-5. There is a 12 month manufacturer warranty.

Alex.


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## DayofReckoning (Jul 17, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> Just received a reply from the guy selling the Firefoxes FF-5. There is a 12 month manufacturer warranty.
> 
> Alex.



Thank you!


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## LumenHound (Jul 17, 2020)

Was it Neil, the actual vendor, who replied back with the warranty information?


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## Alex1234 (Jul 17, 2020)

LumenHound said:


> Was it Neil, the actual vendor, who replied back with the warranty information?



Yes


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## BVH (Jul 17, 2020)

I think I saw a somewhat current jeer thread on Neilsgadgets.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 17, 2020)

BVH said:


> I think I saw a somewhat current jeer thread on Neilsgadgets.



unfortunately theirs not multiple places to order the FF5 from as far as i can tell. Neilsgadgets is the only place i found it for sale on. I ordered mine yesterday. It says expected ship date is around July 30th and he told me it would ship via DHL Express. so far so good. He replied to all my questions within a few hours yesterday. 

I remember years ago i ordered the FF4 in a group buy run by form member LIPS. I cant find anything about him and the new FF5


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## archimedes (Jul 17, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> I think so



@Alex1234 ... thank you for your edit


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## Alex1234 (Jul 17, 2020)

archimedes said:


> @Alex1234 ....* please remove the private comms you have posted above*



Sorry. Just providing important info. 

Alex.


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## archimedes (Jul 17, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> Sorry. Just providing important info.
> 
> Alex.



Thank you for your edit.

As a reminder ...

_Paraphrasing and/or presenting a condensed version (summary) ... is perfectly acceptable._


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## LumenHound (Jul 18, 2020)

The old website for Fire-Foxes is now a non flashlight related bulletin board.
Does anyone know if the old company that produced the FF3 and FF4 has changed their name or merged with another company?


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## SKV89 (Jul 19, 2020)

I just did a search for this thing and found this site with lots of photos. This thing looks freaking incredible!!! 10,000 lumens with 2000m throw! I doubt we will even see that kind of performance with LED flashlights in another 5 years. And that tint is incredible! Any idea what CRI it is? Any one know how long does it take for it to light up from a cold start? I never used one of these.


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## Lips (Jul 19, 2020)

BVH said:


> If anyone would know, it might be member Lips




Selling flashlights is almost as hard as raising children, lol! I'm not involved and it's much easier cost wise to sell from overseas. I sent message to guy who made the previous versions FF4 - FF3 etc. to see if he is behind the new FF5. I'll report back if he answers or says anything.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 19, 2020)

SKV89 said:


> I just did a search for this thing and found this site with lots of photos. This thing looks freaking incredible!!! 10,000 lumens with 2000m throw! I doubt we will even see that kind of performance with LED flashlights in another 5 years. And that tint is incredible! Any idea what CRI it is? Any one know how long does it take for it to light up from a cold start? I never used one of these.




Start up time is listed as 5 seconds. That's quick for hid


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## kashmir (Jul 19, 2020)

Nice to hear from ya Lips, thanks for looking into this!


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## BVH (Jul 19, 2020)

Hi Lips! Good to see you here.


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## BVH (Jul 19, 2020)

Well for $260 Priority Mail shipped, it's too fun to pass up. I've had two or three 4300K low to moderate power HIDs in the past and was definitely not thrilled by the pink overtones. I opted for the 6000K this time. 4300K "sounds" perfect, it just doesn't seem to come thru in HID for me. But the beauty of the color of light is in the eye of the beholder. The version 5 looks to be much larger than the 3 and 4.


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## Magio (Jul 19, 2020)

So can this light run at 100watts continuously?


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## XeRay (Jul 20, 2020)

Magio said:


> So can this light run at 100watts continuously?




Not on this planet, not even remotely close, it would burn your hand badly if it could.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 20, 2020)

XeRay said:


> Not on this planet, not even remotely close, it would burn your hand badly if it could.



I'm assuming it steaps down to 42w (Low Mode) after a few minutes


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## XeRay (Jul 20, 2020)

Lips said:


> Selling flashlights is almost as hard as raising children, lol!



You sure got that statement absolutely correct.  :laughing:


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 26, 2020)

Hi Lips!!! Great to hear from you. I’m not here much either. 

I still have my FF3 & 4 that I got from you, and thank God I got spare battery cartridges. 

I would not buy this new FF5 without getting a spare battery holder, given the history of prior models failing. 

I was able to take apart one of my old holders and fix it. 

To the original poster, can you ask if they can sell spare holders? Otherwise as BVH said this is a nice price. 

Too bad they don’t have a lot more photos to see parts, build details, etc.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 26, 2020)

Are there more photos?


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## Alex1234 (Jul 26, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> Are there more photos?


https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001256219250.html?spm=a219c.12010612.8148356.5.65bc7b69KPnYf8


Tons of photos here


Looks like you can buy a spare carrier, diffuser lens, and bulb. you can also buy a rechargeable battery pack it looks like.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 26, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4001256219250.html?spm=a219c.12010612.8148356.5.65bc7b69KPnYf8
> 
> 
> Tons of photos here
> ...



Unfortunately that site is not English. Wonder if Neil has them.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 26, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> Unfortunately that site is not English. Wonder if Neil has them.



I know its not English. However it was the only place I could find that many photos of the light and its parts.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2020)

I had a conversation with Neal, and he said he can get spare carriers that are also compatible with FF3 & FF4, but will take a week.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 27, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> I had a conversation with Neal, and he said he can get spare carriers that are also compatible with FF3 & FF4, but will take a week.



Great news


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## ampdude (Jul 27, 2020)

Excellent news!!!


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> Great news



Again I HIGHLY recommend you buy 1 or 2 spare battery carriers, as there was a significant failure rate with those in the FF3 & FF4. I was able to dremel the sides of one I had that no longer worked and fix the connections, but Neil quoted me a price of $25/carrier. I contacted him by FB messenger. He currently has no extras, and I’m hopeful that he can get them from China/Korea or wherever these are made.

I’ll let you guys know how this goes. I’m not sure where Neil is operating out of. Not sure if he is in the USA.


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## badtziscool (Jul 27, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> Again I HIGHLY recommend you buy 1 or 2 spare battery carriers, as there was a significant failure rate with those in the FF3 & FF4. I was able to dremel the sides of one I had that no longer worked and fix the connections, but Neil quoted me a price of $25/carrier. I contacted him by FB messenger. He currently has no extras, and I’m hopeful that he can get them from China/Korea or wherever these are made.
> 
> I’ll let you guys know how this goes. I’m not sure where Neil is operating out of. Not sure if he is in the USA.



I believe Neal's Gadgets operates out of China. Hong Kong maybe? He's a pretty reputable vendor. Caught some flack lately but probably due to the pandemic and other situations out of his control.

Glad to see that the carrier will be available separately, knowing its history in the FF4 and older models.


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## kashmir (Jul 27, 2020)

The aliexpress website Alex listed in post #30 can be converted to English. Click on the American flag at the top of the page, pick English as the language, click on "Guardar", which must be the word save in Spanish.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2020)

kashmir said:


> The aliexpress website Alex listed in post #30 can be converted to English. Click on the American flag at the top of the page, pick English as the language, click on "Guardar", which must be the word save in Spanish.



Yes, thank you. I’m happy dealing with Neil for now, not sure how easy that Spanish site would be to order from. Also that website has a .ru Russian url. No thanks.


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## BVH (Jul 28, 2020)

Lux, does the FF5 carrier in the pics look of similar type construction as the 3 & 4 carriers? Let us know how to order one when you are successful in getting yours ordered. I don't use nor ever go to facebook so maybe there is some other way you can find when you communicate with him again?

Got shipping notice on my 6500K version.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 28, 2020)

BVH said:


> Lux, does the FF5 carrier in the pics look of similar type construction as the 3 & 4 carriers? Let us know how to order one when you are successful in getting yours ordered. I don't use nor ever go to facebook so maybe there is some other way you can find when you communicate with him again?
> 
> Got shipping notice on my 6500K version.



I wonder why I haven't received my tracking yet. I ordered the 4300k version 2 weeks ago.


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## LumenHound (Jul 28, 2020)

Thought the "estimated" ship date from a few weeks back was July 30th or so?


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## BVH (Jul 28, 2020)

Shows the carrier is DHL Express from Hong Kong to Van Nuys, CA then to final destination. Doesn't show any movement yet.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2020)

BVH said:


> Lux, does the FF5 carrier in the pics look of similar type construction as the 3 & 4 carriers? Let us know how to order one when you are successful in getting yours ordered. I don't use nor ever go to facebook so maybe there is some other way you can find when you communicate with him again?



Sure will. He did say it was backwards compatible with FF3&4. The company making these is in southern China, and Neil is in Northern China. He said he can get them, but he has not confirmed more details to my questions yet. So we will see.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 29, 2020)

Neil just added and sent me this link for ordering extra battery holders (only $25) here:

https://www.nealsgadgets.com/collec...flashlight-accessories?variant=32374210232394

He has not been able to get to CPF because they are apparently blocking .CH sources likely to prevent hacking.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 29, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> Neil just added and sent me this link for ordering extra battery holders (only $25) here:
> 
> https://www.nealsgadgets.com/collec...flashlight-accessories?variant=32374210232394
> 
> He has not been able to get to CPF because they are apparently blocking .CH sources likely to prevent hacking.



I just ordered myself a spare bulb, battery carrier, lens and diffuser


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 29, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> I just ordered myself a spare bulb, battery carrier, lens and diffuser



Where from?


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## Alex1234 (Jul 29, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> Where from?



that link you posted. there is a drop down for the other accessories


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 29, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> that link you posted. there is a drop down for the other accessories



Oh yeah, I see it now. Thanks


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## Alex1234 (Jul 31, 2020)

BVH said:


> Shows the carrier is DHL Express from Hong Kong to Van Nuys, CA then to final destination. Doesn't show any movement yet.




I never received an email of shipment of my FF5 however i did receive a text from DHL for an express package. However i order a lot of stuff and i am not to sure its the FF5. Does yours have the same shipper address ?


fire fox ff5 dlh shipment by Alex Littig, on Flickr


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## badtziscool (Jul 31, 2020)

I got the same notification this morning as well. It's the only think I've ordered lately, so it has to be the FF5.


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## Alex1234 (Jul 31, 2020)

badtziscool said:


> I got the same notification this morning as well. It's the only think I've ordered lately, so it has to be the FF5.



I cant wait


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 2, 2020)

Let us know how receipt goes! I have not yet received a shipping invoice.


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## ampdude (Aug 3, 2020)

Lux, I put my order in the 30th and have not received one either. Really looking forward to the light. But I'm not in a huge hurry, I would rather that they package everything well and get the order right than be in a hurry to ship. The ordering process was pretty painless. This light really looks like a gem. I might be one of the few people to have an FF3, FF4, and FF5. That would be cool. Only thing I wouldn't have is the FF4 65W version.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 3, 2020)

ampdude said:


> Lux, I put my order in the 30th and have not received one either. Really looking forward to the light. But I'm not in a huge hurry, I would rather that they package everything well and get the order right than be in a hurry to ship. The ordering process was pretty painless. This light really looks like a gem. I might be one of the few people to have an FF3, FF4, and FF5. That would be cool. Only thing I wouldn't have is the FF4 65W version.



Yeah, I also have a FF3 & 4. Don't sweat the 65W silver bezel model, it only added 5W which is not enough to see on a practical basis. 

I did get a message back from "Neil" that the order I placed with spare holder & bulb are due in on Tues or Wed, after which he will ship all together.

It's still hard for me to imagine this is able to output 100W vs. FF4 60-65W. We shall see. I'm expecting a brief 100W before heat shuts it down...or I will to be safe..


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## Alex1234 (Aug 4, 2020)

I just got my FF5. I through in some cheap batteries as thats all I had at work so its acting weird on high mode. It will just randomly almost shut off but the bulb will be on flickering very very dimly. If i turn it off and on it works again I'm hoping its to due to my crappy batteries and not the light being defective. However it ran on high mode long enough to see how bright it is. I 100% believe the 10,000 lumen claim. Its really freaking bright. Very neat clean beam aswell


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## Alex1234 (Aug 4, 2020)

The FF5 came in its FF5 box that was in another outer box that was in a dhl bag. as you can see even there is foam protecting all sides of the light, however there is enough free space for the light to bounce around. I dont really like that. this could have been packaged better imo. also the box is a little beat up but it survived. The beam shoot is the best i could do at the moment. i shined it on the filing cabinet because anywhere else it just looks like an over exposed blob. 

ff57 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff55 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff51 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff52 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff53 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff54 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff58 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


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## BVH (Aug 4, 2020)

Mine arrived but no time to play with. What I did notice is that the very front of the lamp is about 2+mm off center. I am sure 95% of these lights go to enthusiasts and enthusiasts are going to care about lamp alignment. I do, so the mis-alignment bothers me. Disappointing in that respect. The reflector is pretty ringy visually. Probably won't matter in real use. Mine arrived packaged the same as Alex's. I sure hope it's the 6500K I ordered.

One of the two silicone orings tried to squish out when tightening the body to the head. Tighten carefully.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 4, 2020)

BVH said:


> Mine arrived but no time to play with. What I did notice is that the very front of the lamp is about 2+mm off center. I am sure 95% of these lights go to enthusiasts and enthusiasts are going to care about lamp alignment. I do, so the mis-alignment bothers me. Disappointing in that respect. The reflector is pretty ringy visually. Probably won't matter in real use. Mine arrived packaged the same as Alex's. I sure hope it's the 6500K I ordered.
> 
> One of the two silicone orings tried to squish out when tightening the body to the head. Tighten carefully.



Thankfully my bulb alignment is perfect. I usually don't have good luck with that. Also my oring got squished as well. So much so I ha do replace it with a black one. I just did a quick lux ceilibg bounce test vs my K1vn90 that does 5150 lumens. There lux numbers are only relative to each other. Got 60 lux with the k1vn90 and 100 lux with the FF5. So its about 40% brighter then 5150 lumens. Although not sure how accurate that is.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 4, 2020)

I measured my fw21vn with 3 xhp50.2 lens. Vinh measured 9400 lumens. I got 92 lux on the ceiling bounce. 100 with the FF5. Again not sure how accurate that is.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 4, 2020)

I used Samsung 30q cells. After only about 5 minutes I took the batterys out and man they were warm.


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## badtziscool (Aug 4, 2020)

Got mine today too. Same experience with o-rings. Need to replace those with some good ones. Haven’t had a chance to power it up yet. Charging the batteries.  Need to check the bulb alignment. How would you suggest to adjust it, if it is misaligned? 

Only high output light I have to compare to is my Acebeam K30gt. I do have a K65gt on the way so that’ll be a better comparison.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 4, 2020)

ff5 4 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff5 3 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff5 1 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff5 2 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


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## badtziscool (Aug 4, 2020)

Great pics Alex1234! I powered up mine just a few minutes ago. I have to admit. As much of a fan as I am of HIDs, they were mostly in the automotive area. Retrofitting HIDs into halogen headlamps. But I loved the theatre firing up HIDs brought. With this light, I just all of those feelings back. And the one thing that HID absolutely still has over LEDs, COLOR RENDERING! Especially at this output level. Shining this thing outdoors, everything looks so vivid and real rather than washed out or overly blue/green/yellow. 

As expected. Waaaay overpowers the K30gt. Not even a comparison. It is quite heavy though. Probably won’t be taking this on a backpacking trip anytime soon but this will be a fun thing to have around the campsite.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 4, 2020)

WOW somehow i received a sample with the bulb as aligned and centered as physically possible. 





ff5 5 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



ff5 6 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


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## Alex1234 (Aug 5, 2020)

i measured the Lux at 10 meters. I got 440kcd on low and a staggering 1.2 mcd on high. This is preforming over spec.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 5, 2020)

Thanks so much for all this feedback and photos. So awesome. So now we know that Neil is legit which is a relief. Did you get the spare parts also?

I’ll message Neil about better packing. I should be getting my shipping this week. 

I can take comparison shots with FF3 & FF4 which I have.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 5, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> Thanks so much for all this feedback and photos. So awesome. So now we know that Neil is legit which is a relief. Did you get the spare parts also?
> 
> I’ll message Neil about better packing. I should be getting my shipping this week.
> 
> I can take comparison shots with FF3 & FF4 which I have.



I ordered thoes separately so no. I think they are shipping soon maybe.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 5, 2020)

Alex, I just messaged him on FB and he thanked me for the shipping feedback and bulb issue. He is now going to find a better packing solution. 

BVH, is it me, or does that look like a Philips DL-50 Fatboy bulb?


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## Alex1234 (Aug 5, 2020)

I'm really thinking about buying a 6500k version as well. To have both spectrums.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 5, 2020)

I ordered the 6500, but at this price, I wouldn’t blame you. There were over 100 of the FF4 that member Lips sold as I recall. 

Neil just confirmed that the spare parts also came in.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 5, 2020)

i just ordered a 6500k version. plus more accessories. I have lost all control.... and all my money....


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## XeRay (Aug 5, 2020)

Word of warning, a normal HID bulb has an outer glass envelope of UV stop quartz (it typically (D2S or D1S) also adds strength the bulb base encase you were to drop the light). This bulb doesn't have that outer envelope of glass, so more dangerous for UV burns etc. Be careful guys.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 5, 2020)

XeRay said:


> Word of warning, a normal HID bulb has an outer glass envelope of UV stop quartz (it typically (D2S or D1S) also adds strength the bulb base encase you were to drop the light). This bulb doesn't have that outer envelope of glass, so more dangerous for UV burns etc. Be careful guys.



important words of wisdom! Thanks Dan. Also see my PM


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## Alex1234 (Aug 5, 2020)

What is a UV burn like ?


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## badtziscool (Aug 5, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> What is a UV burn like ?



I'd imagine like a sunburn.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 5, 2020)

*Ok i just did a test to find out how long it takes to step down automatically on high. It stepped down to low 42W mode at 6 minutes. the head temp started at 75F and when it stepped down it was 117F. I think that is phenomenal performance !!!*


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## Alex1234 (Aug 6, 2020)

Has anyone experienced a strange smell coming from the FF5 apon start up?


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## badtziscool (Aug 6, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> Has anyone experienced a strange smell coming from the FF5 apon start up?



I have. I just attributed it to my fingerprints on the lens being burned off, but it might be something else if you're experiencing it too. The smell happens pretty soon (within seconds) after turn on so it can't be anything external besides the lens. Might be something internal and close to the bulb, like the reflector or the bulb itself?


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 6, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> Has anyone experienced a strange smell coming from the FF5 apon start up?



Have you been eating chili or some other bean dish?


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## BVH (Aug 6, 2020)

Well, I guess I "took one" for the team. She no work no more. With my commercial telecom grade Sorensen DLM 32V/95A programmable power supply, I ran 5 startup tests to measure total power consumed. With 14.38 Volts at the head contact pins, low consumed 3.5 Amps for a total consumption of 50.3 Watts. With 14.22 Volts at the terminals while running in HIGH, 8.74 Amps were consumed for 124.28 Watts. Same tests with a little higher input Voltage. With 15.5 Volts at the pins on low, 3.0 Amps consumed for 46.5 Watts and with 15.2 Volts at the pins on HIGH, it consumed 8.3 Amps for 126 Watts total consumption. So I'd say it's very close to 100 Watts at the lamp on high. The boost phase is very short. It settled at steady current draw in less than 12 seconds. I never ran it long enough to trigger power reduction. The head never got hot. No runs were longer than 1 minute. But after the last run, she will not start under battery nor power supply power. Nothing looks amiss. But they did send me the wrong color temp light. I got a 4300K, not the 6500K as ordered.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 6, 2020)

BVH said:


> Well, I guess I "took one" for the team. She no work no more. With my commercial telecom grade Sorensen DLM 32V/95A programmable power supply, I ran 5 startup tests to measure total power consumed. With 14.38 Volts at the head contact pins, low consumed 3.5 Amps for a total consumption of 50.3 Watts. With 14.22 Volts at the terminals while running in HIGH, 8.74 Amps were consumed for 124.28 Watts. Same tests with a little higher input Voltage. With 15.5 Volts at the pins on low, 3.0 Amps consumed for 46.5 Watts and with 15.2 Volts at the pins on HIGH, it consumed 8.3 Amps for 126 Watts total consumption. So I'd say it's very close to 100 Watts at the lamp on high. The boost phase is very short. It settled at steady current draw in less than 12 seconds. I never ran it long enough to trigger power reduction. The head never got hot. No runs were longer than 1 minute. But after the last run, she will not start under battery nor power supply power. Nothing looks amiss. But they did send me the wrong color temp light. I got a 4300K, not the 6500K as ordered.



i wonder why it broke. Freeme said the bulb runs at 9 amps. It doesn't seam like you over drove it.


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## BVH (Aug 6, 2020)

As long as Voltage was under 16.8, then there would be no overdriving condition unless....there is some type of current limiting circuitry in the battery carrier.


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## badtziscool (Aug 6, 2020)

That’s unfortunate the light failed after just a few power cycles. I wonder if there really is some current limiting done at the battery carrier. I posted in another thread some testing results someone did and their calculations (whatever that’s worth) concluded 100w of power draw overall. If his vacillation were correction then there was some overdrive happening. 



BVH said:


> As long as Voltage was under 16.8, then there would be no overdriving condition unless....there is some type of current limiting circuitry in the battery carrier.


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## XeRay (Aug 7, 2020)

Is there any warning in the manual about UV exposure ? 
Obviously they aren't worried about product liability exposure, since they are only sold out if China. Still there should be some warning of potential skin burns and eye hazards.
It wouldn't make a lot of sense to do any current limiting in the battery pack, the ballast should really be controlling that. Being Chinese made though, "all bets are off"'.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

XeRay said:


> Is there any warning in the manual about UV exposure ?
> Obviously they aren't worried about product liability exposure, since they are only sold out if China. Still there should be some warning of potential skin burns and eye hazards.
> It wouldn't make a lot of sense to do any current limiting in the battery pack, the ballast should really be controlling that. Being Chinese made though, "all bets are off"'.



So true, Dan! 

To be fair though, I suspect that your higher voltage during tests, BVH (which we all appreciate), may have exceeded intended tolerances of circuit/ballast component. When I dremeled my failed FF3 battery carrier (and fixed it), there was a round circuit board with a number of components that I didn’t look at closely. Makes me wonder if that carrier limited current &/or voltage delivered to ballast beyond normal terminal contacts/wire resistance which you bypassed by powering the ballast contacts directly. 

See if Neil will replace it—especially since he sent you the wrong color model.

Oh also Bob, did you try to align the bulb?


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

I got my DHL shipping notices for FF5, 3x battery carriers, lens, spare bulb, filter, leather case.


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## ampdude (Aug 7, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> I got my DHL shipping notices for FF5, 3x battery carriers, lens, spare bulb, filter, leather case.



Same.

I suspected my extra battery carriers were delaying the order. I got some lens covers too since they seemed cheaper than the Canon version for FF4 and I'm not sure what size the FF5 ones would be.

I didn't order any spare bulbs, but I might do so tonight. And some more leather cases if they fit my FF4/FF3's decent. I want to get some FF3 lenses as well, but I think only the other site has them.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

ampdude said:


> Same. I suspected my extra battery carriers were delaying the order. I didn't order any spare bulbs, but I might do so tonight.



Neil just got his shipment Wednesday so this is fast turnaround. So far I don’t see any reason to worry about his service, despite there being a jeer warning here.


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## ampdude (Aug 7, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> Neil just got his shipment Wednesday so this is fast turnaround. So far I don’t see any reason to worry about his service, despite there being a jeer warning here.



No, I'm not concerned. I'm just wondering if he can get me some FF3 and possibly FF4 lenses to ad to my order if I order some spare bulbs.

My FF3 lense has the typical fogging issue. And I love this light and the size otherwise. And it's always good to have a spare couple lenses if it gets dropped hard or something too.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

ampdude said:


> No, I'm not concerned. I'm just wondering if he can get me some FF3 and possibly FF4 lenses to ad to my order if I order some spare bulbs.
> 
> My FF3 lense has the typical fogging issue. And I love this light and the size otherwise.



What kind of lenses? I’ll ask him.


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## ampdude (Aug 7, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> What kind of lenses? I’ll ask him.



The glass lenses for the Firefoxes 3. Would be super awesome if they could be UV treated, but I'll take anything over the foggy original. And I need spares anyways.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

ampdude said:


> The glass lenses for the Firefoxes 3. Would be super awesome if they could be UV treated, but I'll take anything over the foggy original. And I need spares anyways.



I never got extra lenses, are you saying your stock lens was foggy? Or was this an add on lens like he has for FF5? Wouldn’t the FF5 lens fit earlier models? Forgive my lack of awareness, but why do you need extra lenses?


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## ampdude (Aug 7, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> I never got extra lenses, are you saying your stock lens was foggy? Or was this an add on lens like he has for FF5? Wouldn’t the FF5 lens fit earlier models? Forgive my lack of awareness, but why do you need extra lenses?



My stock FF3 lense was foggy when I got it. Other people had the same issue.

This was many years ago when this happened. I believe the FF3 came out in 2012 and shipped mostly in 2013-2014. They attributed the lens fogging issue to the humid climate it was made in and shipped to over here. Never made any sense and I opened up the light a couple times and tried to clean the fogging off the lens and never could get it to go away. There might have been something wrong with the material of the lenses of the original FF3's, and that's the only thing I can think of.

I wouldn't know how an FF5 lens would fit an FF3, the heads are different sizes and apparently the FF5 head is larger yet than the FF4, which is what I really like about it. The FF3 lense and bezel is smaller than the FF4 lense and bezel. Just held two of them up together and also remembered that the FF3 reflector is light orange peel, while the FF4 reflector is smooth. I kinda like the FF3 as a vintage pocket rocket. I love the size of it and it's why I've not sold it for other lights. But I would like a new lens for my FF3.

I would also just like extra lenses for scratches or possible damage to the light. Or other issues. I don't understand why anyone would not want replacement parts if a light gets damaged. Without a lens the light is pretty much worthless. And it's cheap insurance.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

Oh ok, thanks for those details. I never heard about the fogged lens before. Sorry I didn’t know the lenses were different sizes. I will ask Neil and let you know. 

When we were building custom lights I remember a company that made all sorts of lens sizes and coating. Wonder if anyone remembers that resource.


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## ampdude (Aug 7, 2020)

I had one that wanted me to order at least one hundred pieces, maybe it was more than that. They wanted the measurements. I bought a digital calibrator just to measure my FF3's lens, then I forgot all about it.. I don't remember who it was, it's buried somewhere on my computer.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

I found the website I was thinking of: https://flashlightlens.com/

we used to get the Borofloat lenses. You have to measure to see if they have a stock size you need.


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## ampdude (Aug 7, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> I found the website I was thinking of: https://flashlightlens.com/



I think that was the one, but not sure. Would be nice if they could do UV coated lenses for FF3, FF4, and FF5 sized heads/bezels.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 7, 2020)

what is the % of UV light that these bulbs put out?


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## XeRay (Aug 7, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> what is the % of UV light that these bulbs put out?



The bigger question what types of UV does it put out, UV A, B, C ? Only The bulb maker can tell you this. I don't know that anyone on CPF can measure this. UVC being the most dangerous.


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## badtziscool (Aug 7, 2020)

The FF5 lens size is 82mm. At least that’s what the lens cover that came with mine says. Did you get a lens cover as a spare? Because the light already comes with one. 



ampdude said:


> Same.
> 
> I suspected my extra battery carriers were delaying the order. I got some lens covers too since they seemed cheaper than the Canon version for FF4 and I'm not sure what size the FF5 ones would be.
> 
> I didn't order any spare bulbs, but I might do so tonight. And some more leather cases if they fit my FF4/FF3's decent. I want to get some FF3 lenses as well, but I think only the other site has them.


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## XeRay (Aug 7, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> what is the % of UV light that these bulbs put out?




After some HID bulb research (without UV protection glass) I have some likely figures at the high wattage (maybe less than half at the lower setting) setting for that bulb without the quartz capsule over the arc chamber.

UVC the most dangerous about 1 watt output
UVB 2.5 watts
UVA 15 watts

The numbers could be less or more than these, but this is at least a reasonable possibility.
Again please be careful especially with your eyes and the eyes of others.
Don't forget a bad sunburn is also possible.


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## BVH (Aug 7, 2020)

Got another light coming. I don't think I'll do any testing! Hopefully, I'll get the 6000K version this time.

Thanks Dan for the guesstimate on UV exposure.


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## XeRay (Aug 7, 2020)

One plus, UVC is effective to "KILL" Covid-19 the Wuhan Virus.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 7, 2020)

XeRay said:


> After some HID bulb research (without UV protection glass) I have some likely figures at the high wattage (maybe less than half at the lower setting) setting for that bulb without the quartz capsule over the arc chamber.
> 
> UVC the most dangerous about 1 watt output
> UVB 2.5 watts
> ...



thank you for this


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

I can’t even imagine someone looking directly into any really bright light or shining it at someone’s eyes at close range (unless they are up to nefarious activities). Are people really that stupid?


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## Alex1234 (Aug 7, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> I can’t even imagine someone looking directly into any really bright light or shining it at someone’s eyes at close range (unless they are up to nefarious activities). Are people really that stupid?



you wound be surprised. I tend to show people in my work place some of the new lights i get who are obviously not accustom to these bright lights. Instead of shinning it on a wall or something to see the beam and how bright it is they want to put it on turbo and try to look directly down the light path. Then they flinch at how bright it is with a puzzled look on there face. Lights are so bright now a days even the light bouncing off the wall can hurt your eyes. I cant shine the ff5 on max at a white wall any closer then about 18 feet or else it over exposes the eyes and its uncomfortable. A direct shot to the eyes with the ff5 with in about 50 feet its certainly lights out for your eyes


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## BVH (Aug 7, 2020)

Lux, yes, stupidity is alive and well. I remember a CPF member sticking his hand directly in front of TVORD's VSS-3A at a meet.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 7, 2020)

sweet my second FF5 6000k with the accessories is on the way


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

BVH said:


> Lux, yes, stupidity is alive and well. I remember a CPF member sticking his hand directly in front of TVORD's VSS-3A at a meet.



I believe you, but honestly, these actions are incredulous to even imagine that people are that stupid. 

Remember when MAC came out with his “Torch” that would start a fire with newspaper within seconds...from what you guys have seen, that means there are some nitwits that likely stuck their hand in front of that light also!!!  Darwinian evolution is alive and well I guess!


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

BVH said:


> Got another light coming.



Did you ask Neil to replace it since it was the wrong color, or you just biting the bullet.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

ampdude said:


> The glass lenses for the Firefoxes 3. Would be super awesome if they could be UV treated, but I'll take anything over the foggy original. And I need spares anyways.



I asked Neil and he put your request in to the FF company. They responded back that they may have old lenses but have to go looking in their warehouse.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 7, 2020)

Hey BVH, can you tell if they are using a Fatboy bulb for the 100w? I would surprised that they could still find those around unless they got some from Dan. 

If it’s not a Fatboy, what the hell other bulb would they be using to get a 100w performance??? Maybe Dan would know if he sees this.


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## ampdude (Aug 7, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> I asked Neil and he put your request in to the FF company. They responded back that they may have old lenses but have to go looking in their warehouse.



Thank you for that, really appreciate it!



badtziscool said:


> The FF5 lens size is 82mm. At least that’s what the lens cover that came with mine says. Did you get a lens cover as a spare? Because the light already comes with one.



Oh.. Uh... I guess they'll be spares then. No, didn't know they already came with one as they never did in the past. Interesting!


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## BVH (Aug 8, 2020)

I just chalked it up to having fun and the cost of entertainment. Definitely NOT a Fatboy. The DL50 Fatboy was only produced in 3900K and is a lot more beefy-looking than the FFV.


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## XeRay (Aug 8, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> Hey BVH, can you tell if they are using a Fatboy bulb for the 100w? I would surprised that they could still find those around unless they got some from Dan.
> 
> If it’s not a Fatboy, what the hell other bulb would they be using to get a 100w performance??? Maybe Dan would know if he sees this.



I believe it's a custom made bulb and likely only made for this light.


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## BVH (Aug 10, 2020)

Here's the casualty. It looks like the marking was "1015". Have to look close for the dark "5". Not even sure the first digit is a "1" after looking thru a loop. Looks like a surface mount resistor or capacitor. Can anyone specifically identify what it is? Large solder blobs on both ends. The blob on the left connects to all pins on the chip. I will try to replace it just for fun. Sounds very strange that there'd be current limiting logic in the ballast as Dan mentioned above. The ballast is regulating. I fed it with two different input Voltages and took current measurements. The higher Voltage input resulted in a lower current. Both combinations resulted in the same Watts. So why regulate current in both places? Searching returns that it is a 100 Ahm resistor. Another unknown is the Wattage handling spec. Any ideas? Size is a clue but not definite and I'm not sure I can tell the size any longer.






Oh, and the lamp is marked 5500K on the base so I guess it is the ...6000K version.






Custom made bezel removal tool:


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## Alex1234 (Aug 10, 2020)

BVH said:


> Here's the casualty. It looks like the marking was "101". Looks like a surface mount resistor or capacitor. Can anyone specifically identify what it is? Large solder blobs on both ends. The blob on the left connects to all pins on the chip. I will try to replace it just for fun. Sounds very strange that there'd be current limiting logic in the ballast as Dan mentioned above. The ballast is regulating. I fed it with two different input Voltages and took current measurements. The higher Voltage input resulted in a lower current. Both combinations resulted in the same Watts. So why regulate current in both places? Oh, and the lamp is marked 5500K on the base so I guess it is the ...6000K version.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thoes solder joints look quite beefy.


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## LumenHound (Aug 12, 2020)

Love that bezel removal tool!


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## BVH (Aug 12, 2020)

Thanks to Neal, I was able to buy a replacement ballast.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 13, 2020)

That’s great Bob!


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 13, 2020)

ampdude said:


> No, I'm not concerned. I'm just wondering if he can get me some FF3 and possibly FF4 lenses to ad to my order if I order some spare bulbs.
> 
> My FF3 lense has the typical fogging issue. And I love this light and the size otherwise. And it's always good to have a spare couple lenses if it gets dropped hard or something too.



Neil just FB messaged me that he did get a spare lens for the FF4, but not FF3. He wants you to contact him as he is saving it for you.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 13, 2020)

Just got mine and all the spare parts. This is dramatically brighter than FF4! 

Also the battery carriers are the same as for FF3 & FF4


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## ampdude (Aug 13, 2020)

Thanks a lot Lux! I just sent Neil an email. I received my shipment as well today!


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## Alex1234 (Aug 13, 2020)

I received my 6000k FF5 today and all the accessories . Its great. Comparing both the 6000k and the 4300k there is definitely a bit of difference. The 6000k is closer to neutral white. it makes the warmth of the 4300k really stand out. I prefer the 4300k but like both.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 13, 2020)

I’m guessing the 6000 is brighter on a practical basis. 

When I just compared the high setting compared to the FF4, it seemed like it was twice as bright and dramatically more throw. I didn’t expect this much of a surprising increased performance, but honestly it blows the earlier models away. 

Although it is larger in width, length, and weight, I like how the longer body gives your hand a more secure grip. The FF4 was too short for your whole hand to grip the body. 

This is a must buy for this reasonable price for any serious flashaholic.


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## ampdude (Aug 13, 2020)

Yes, I found the FF3 to be the perfect coat pocket rocket size, while the FF5 is handheld beast that we all wanted. The FF4 is somewhere in between and fills a nitch on a belt holster.

I really like that I don't have to worry about battery carriers for any of these anymore. I'll probably start using them more, none of my Firefoxes have seen much use from me.


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## BVH (Aug 14, 2020)

Alex, I assume you meant 4300K, not 3400K. And the 6000K is really a 5500K as marked on my lamp base. So the two are not far apart from each other. Being 5500K, it should be brighter than the 4300K. 5500K is about the peak brightness and it begins to taper off going up from there. I call 5500K "Diamond White" and it's my sweet spot.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 14, 2020)

*6000K VS 4300K 

*Not a huge difference but its noticeable. First photo and last two show it the best. The rest not so much. The camera kept adjusting. Its more noticeable then the rest of the photos suggest. I like both Tints. Fire-Foxes nailed it with these lights. The only two suggestions i have for them is proper bulb alignment. The second one i got the 6000k version has the bulb is not perfectly aligned. its not that bad. The beam is just slightly off from perfect but hardly noticeable. Not worth trying to fix. The next thing is the clear Orings that come on the light. THEY SUCK. an oring in the tailcap on the first sample i got broke just by opening the tailcap for the first time and the second sample one overstretched beyond saving on the head and tailcap. The grease they use sucks as well. I cleaned all the threads and replaced the orings that broke and regressed with high quality synthetic grease. Regressing makes the thread smoothness way better. The diffusers are awesome. Turns it into a awesome flood light. 


Right 6000K Left 4300K


20200814_004536 by Alex Littig, on Flickr

4300K


20200814_004705 by Alex Littig, on Flickr

6000K


20200814_004833 by Alex Littig, on Flickr

4300K


20200814_004717 by Alex Littig, on Flickr

6000K


20200814_004843 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


*Diffuser filter 

*4300K


20200814_005546 by Alex Littig, on Flickr

6000k


20200814_005508 by Alex Littig, on Flickr
*
*4300K


20200814_005414 by Alex Littig, on Flickr

6000K


20200814_005455 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 14, 2020)

Alex, great beamshots. We need to do a FF3, 4, & 5 in sequence.


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## ampdude (Aug 14, 2020)

That is awesome, what type of o-rings did you replace them with? I haven't taken a tailcap off yet. I'd like to do a FF3, 4, & 5 next to each other in one photo, but I don't have enough batteries and the best camera I have is on a phone from 2016.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 14, 2020)

ampdude said:


> That is awesome, what type of o-rings did you replace them with? I haven't taken a tailcap off yet. I'd like to do a FF3, 4, & 5 next to each other in one photo, but I don't have enough batteries and the best camera I have is on a phone from 2016.




I just replaced them with the black orings that come with the light. They seam better then the clear ones that came on the ff5


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 14, 2020)

ampdude said:


> That is awesome, what type of o-rings did you replace them with? I haven't taken a tailcap off yet. I'd like to do a FF3, 4, & 5 next to each other in one photo, but I don't have enough batteries and the best camera I have is on a phone from 2016.



There are lots of places to get a cheap box of assorted o-rings

https://www.mcmaster.com/93135K31/

https://www.applerubber.com/product...Ls7yM_NokahK6ISDElkfcBelj0_gt4ysaAp9CEALw_wcB

Or search for “assorted o rings” on Amazon. Like this box of 1200 rings for $20.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 14, 2020)

My 4300k ff5 is slightly better focused then my 6000k ff5. To my eyes the throw on both dont look much different. I get a higher ceiling bounce number with the 6000K but I only measure 900KCD with the 6000K version and a whopping 1.1 - 1.2 MCD with the 4300K version. Its kinda odd


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## badtziscool (Aug 14, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> My 4300k ff5 is slightly better focused then my 6000k ff5. To my eyes the throw on both dont look much different. I get a higher ceiling bounce number with the 6000K but I only measure 900KCD with the 6000K version and a whopping 1.1 - 1.2 MCD with the 4300K version. Its kinda odd



I don't think that's too odd. A focus that's even slightly off will most definitely affect the beam and the concentration of the hot spot. Another thing to consider (though I don't think it's happening here) is that wavelengths that are lower (longer?) in the spectrum tend to get scattered less as it travels through the air, and so technically, warmer tinted lights should be able to throw further. It's actually kind of evident in your distance shots. Again, I don't think its enough to reduce the candela by 200k, but it could be contributing to it.


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## BVH (Aug 24, 2020)

badtzicool, would you post a side-by-side pic of the hotspots/corona of your two lights in the same photo against the same color background, like a white garage door or? The reason being, I have got my new second 6000K version and it's color measures only 4500K (on high) using my highly accurate Sekonic c-7000 meter and it looks identical to my first light. The ceramic base is marked 5500K, so not a 4300K nor a 6000K. Even though its marked 5500K, it measures only 4500K. I'm beginning to think there is only one version - the "4300K".


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## badtziscool (Aug 24, 2020)

Hi there BVH. 

Unfortunately I do not have both versions. Alex1234 is the one that has both versions and I believe he has the “6000k” version up for sale, so I don’t know if he still has it. But from the pics he’s posted, there is a temp difference between the two. 



BVH said:


> badtzicool, would you post a side-by-side pic of the hotspots/corona of your two lights in the same photo against the same color background, like a white garage door or? The reason being, I have got my new second 6000K version and it's color measures only 4500K (on high) using my highly accurate Sekonic c-7000 meter and it looks identical to my first light. The ceramic base is marked 5500K, so not a 4300K nor a 6000K. Even though its marked 5500K, it measures only 4500K. I'm beginning to think there is only one version - the "4300K".


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## BVH (Aug 24, 2020)

Opps, mis-read the posts. All I had to do is look up at Alex's shots. I'm not seeing a difference in the two in the above pics other than in the first beam photo only shot. The rest, to me, don't represent a 4300K v 5500K. But these are photos, not real life. Guess I'll have to be happy with what they are.


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## badtziscool (Aug 24, 2020)

There’s one photo in Alex1234 sales post that probably shows the color difference the best. I think it might be what you’re looking for. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...S-FF5-6000K-with-accessories(SOLD)&highlight=



BVH said:


> Opps, mis-read the posts. All I had to do is look up at Alex's shots. I'm not seeing a difference in the two in the above pics other than in the first beam photo only shot. The rest, to me, don't represent a 4300K v 5500K. But these are photos, not real life. Guess I'll have to be happy with what they are.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 28, 2020)

Fire Fox FF5 VS the MT90VN+ Spec C beamshots 

my Lux Measurements
FF5: 1.2MCD 
MT90VN+ 3.3 MCD


The Mt90VN+ is one hell of a light. It can run turbo indefinitely without step down. after 10 minutes on turbo its just slightly warm. the k75vn on the other hand gets scolding hot after 2 minutes lol. ceiling bounce shows the MT90Vn+ spec C a smidge brigher at turn on. output drops quick on the K75vn as it gets hot but the MT90vn+ barley drops. Its quite impressive and this is without the fan. I dont even think it would get warm at all if you used the fan.I have never had a LED light with this kind of performance where i did not have to worry about step down or heat. CD to dollar ratio is crazy here. Its just over 5000 kcd per dollar. There is no HID light that i know of that can beat this for the price. The Lemax LX70 superpower head will beat it but its over $3000 maybe even more. I think the super head does like 4.5 mcd(4250 meters) if i remember correctly. Its only like 1000 kcd per dollar give or take depending on price. 




20200828_021346 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


20200828_021358 by Alex Littig, on Flickr



20200828_020203 by Alex Littig, on Flickr

20200828_020207 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


20200828_020256 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


20200828_020152 by Alex Littig, on Flickr


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## Alex1234 (Aug 28, 2020)

delete


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## ampdude (Aug 29, 2020)

Wow that thing's a monster. Looks like a caveman club. Nice throw with that huge reflector, but 5700K looks terrible though.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 29, 2020)

ampdude said:


> Wow that thing's a monster. Looks like a caveman club. Nice throw with that huge reflector, but 5700K looks terrible though.


Tint to my eyes is actually nice. Its definitely closer to neutral white to my eyes. No blue at all. That said the ff5's output color is definitely superior. But for an led the tint on the MT90VN is quite nice imo the ff5s awsome tint is just making the mt90vn seam worse then it is.


----------



## ampdude (Aug 29, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> Tint to my eyes is actually nice. Its definitely closer to neutral white to my eyes. No blue at all. That said the ff5's output color is definitely superior. But for an led the tint on the MT90VN is quite nice imo the ff5s awsome tint is just making the mt90vn seam worse then it is.



I've been going back on forth on LED tints lately. Normally a 3500K guy. Most of the "4000K" ones I've tried, that most people prefer, like the Nichia 219's are a bit too cold for my taste, if only slightly. I ordered a few Coast lights that I've tried out here in the house and ironically the 5000K one that I thought I would hate the most is the one I like the best, because I think it puts out enough efficient light to make up for the difference. I just don't like it when LED's put a lot of wasted blue light. The trade off with LED's always seems to be that you have a lower power input, but you need a much larger light to compensate for throw if there's not an optic like an aspherical lense. I'd like an FF6 in that size in 200W 4300K. Now we got something to compare. More power hungry than the LED it will be no doubt, but who cares. We got power these days! In these size lights it's not about saving power.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 29, 2020)

ampdude said:


> I've been going back on forth on LED tints lately. Normally a 3500K guy. Most of the "4000K" ones I've tried, that most people prefer, like the Nichia 219's are a bit too cold for my taste, if only slightly. I ordered a few Coast lights that I've tried out here in the house and ironically the 5000K one that I thought I would hate the most is the one I like the best, because I think it puts out enough efficient light to make up for the difference. I just don't like it when LED's put a lot of wasted blue light. The trade off with LED's always seems to be that you have a lower power input, but you need a much larger light to compensate for throw if there's not an optic like an aspherical lense. I'd like an FF6 in that size in 200W 4300K. Now we got something to compare. More power hungry than the LED it will be no doubt, but who cares. We got power these days! In these size lights it's not about saving power.



A turbo head FF6 with say a 6 or 8 inch head would throw 4- 5 MCD. Id buy 2 of them


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## BVH (Aug 29, 2020)

I finished installing my replacement ballast yesterday and successfully fired up my original light that I damaged. This is not a job for the casual flashlight enthusiast.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 29, 2020)

Alex, the mt90’s beam is awesome, but that massive size and front heavy design make it not worth it, IMHO. Same reason I didn’t bother with the super head on the Lemax.


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## sledhead (Aug 29, 2020)

Alex: Great shots and comparison's. Hopefully we'll get to compare them all to my SuperPower and LX50 sometime this fall. :thumbsup:

SuperPower front heavy?............just a tad, but, ohhh sooo worth it!


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## Alex1234 (Aug 30, 2020)

sledhead said:


> Alex: Great shots and comparison's. Hopefully we'll get to compare them all to my SuperPower and LX50 sometime this fall. :thumbsup:
> 
> SuperPower front heavy?............just a tad, but, ohhh sooo worth it!



cant wait. I think the MT90VN+ will keep up with the super power somewhat.


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## badtziscool (Aug 30, 2020)

What did you encounter that made the repair more difficult? I’m curious because I imagine I will need to replace the bulb at some point and would like to know what I could be potentially dealing with. 



BVH said:


> I finished installing my replacement ballast yesterday and successfully fired up my original light that I damaged. This is not a job for the casual flashlight enthusiast.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 30, 2020)

I had my ff5 open just to see what was inside. It definitely seams like daunting task.


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## BVH (Aug 30, 2020)

The lamp change is not too bad. The most difficult part for me was while inserting the open frame type ballast into the head, the two 28 awg switch wires have to be started down and fished down a very deep hole. There's barely enough wire length to see them enter the hole. Once down, the tiny hole in the head and the tiny hole in the bottom plate of the ballast must be perfectly aligned or you'll chop the wires when securing the ballast down. Then, the switch wires at the switch mounting hole must be cut very short because there is no way to push any excess "working" wire length back into the hole so you can seat the switch chip but...and you need extra wire length to make the very tiny solder connections. Part of the problem is that my manual dexterity is not what it was at 40. The issue with the replacement lamps will be that the electrode wire that goes thru the ceramic base is significantly shorter than the electrode on the lamp that came with the light. On the bottom side of the ceramic base, there is a grove from center point extending out the outer diameter. The electrode is designed to protrude from the hole, immediately bend in the grove and extend to the outer diameter. Then it is bent back on itself 180 degrees and extends all the way across the diameter of the ceramic base. I think there is only enough electrode to make the initial bend in the groove to the outer diameter and then maybe only 25% to 30% of the way across the entire diameter. Will this matter? I don't know, maybe not. I used my original lamp, not my spare. The actual electrical connection relies only on the wire with copper puck soldered on the end from the ballast being pushed up against the electrode and it is held in with a doughnut of hard silicone rubber forced up into the ceramic base. There is no actual positive connection, just friction by the doughnut. No Pun intended there. By the way, all replacement lamps are 4300K, no 6000K's (5500K)

Lamp Change: With special 3-hump tool, Unscrew the bezel. Lift out the front glass and pull the reflector out as far as the power wire will allow. Remove the kapstan tape around the ceramic base. Unscrew the ring nut securing the ceramic base to the reflector. Remove the two tiny clips holding the lamp top electrode and power return wires in a groove cut into the reflector. Back the bulb and base out of the reflector while maneuvering the top lamp electrode out of the reflector hole at the same time. The lamp bottom quartz stem just floats in the larger ceramic base, only the electrode going thru the hole and bending in the groove holds it somewhat in-place. Reverse to install.

Much as I really enjoy this type of work, I would not do it regularly for others who wanted it done. Once is enough for fun.


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## badtziscool (Aug 30, 2020)

Wow. Thanks for the details BVH!


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 31, 2020)

Memo to self: Do not burn out the FF5 bulb.


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## BVH (Aug 31, 2020)

I added: "With special 3-Hump tool". Gotta have it or a no-go unless you're ok damaging your bezel.


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## Alex1234 (Aug 31, 2020)

BVH said:


> I added: "With special 3-Hump tool". Gotta have it or a no-go unless you're ok damaging your bezel.



My defuser got stuck on my ff5 and after trying as hard as I can to get it to unthread the whole bezal unthreaded. No need for a bezal tool for me lol


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## ampdude (Sep 1, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> My defuser got stuck on my ff5 and after trying as hard as I can to get it to unthread the whole bezal unthreaded. No need for a bezal tool for me lol



LOL! Also good to know!!!! I would really like a special bezel tool available though.


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## BVH (Sep 1, 2020)

Alex1234 said:


> My defuser got stuck on my ff5 and after trying as hard as I can to get it to unthread the whole bezal unthreaded. No need for a bezal tool for me lol



Now that IS interesting!


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 9, 2020)

I continue to be impressed with this FF5 for its size. Quite an accomplishment in such a small package.


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## BVH (Nov 14, 2020)

Custom made FFV Bezel removal tool for sale in the mall.


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## cchurchi (Nov 27, 2020)

I just ordered a FF5! Really looking forward the the 100 watt output. I have an FF3 and FF4 that are just fantastic lights. I have used them both hundreds of times through the years. I take them out for night snowshoe hikes and fire them up when they're frozen solid with 0 issues. 

Long ago i had a Wolf Eyes 24 watt HID that I used for night hikes but the ballast was always dying or the bulb would explode. That was interesting to see because what ever was in the bulb ate off the coating on the reflector in about 15 seconds. I was like NNOooo!

So what batteries would you guys recommend for the 100 watt draw of the FF5? I currently use Panasonic NCR18650 with 3400 mAh. Not sure they can handle that much current. Thanks!


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## badtziscool (Nov 27, 2020)

The FF5 is a beast! You’ll love it. I think you’ll need higher drain batteries though. I use Sony VTC6 flat top cells and they fit and work perfectly. 



cchurchi said:


> I just ordered a FF5! Really looking forward the the 100 watt output. I have an FF3 and FF4 that are just fantastic lights. I have used them both hundreds of times through the years. I take the out for night snowshoe hikes and fire them up when their frozen solid with 0 issues.
> 
> Long ago i had a Wolf Eyes 24 watt HID that I used for night hikes but the ballast was always dying or the bulb would explode. That was interesting to see because what ever was in the bulb ate off the coating on the reflector in about 15 seconds. I was like NNOooo!
> 
> So what batteries would you guys recommend for the 100 watt draw of th FF5? I currently use Panasonic NCR18650 with 3400 mAh. Not sure they can handle that much current. Thanks!


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## PhotonMaster3 (Dec 9, 2020)

I’ve been using my FF5 every night for a few months. Man do I love this thing... the massive wide beam is just gorgeous and seems to go on forever. My first HID light so I don’t profess to be an expert but I’d take it over my Imalent MS18 in a heartbeat! 

Can’t wait for a 1,000 watt FF6


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## Parker VH (Dec 9, 2020)

So the link in post #5 is for Neals Gadgets? If I go directly to Neals Gadgets and do a search for Firefox the only thing that comes up are the accessories or am I missing something?


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## BVH (Dec 9, 2020)

https://www.nealsgadgets.com/products/fire-foxes-ff5-hid-flashlight


Look at the top of the page for any discount codes


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## Parker VH (Dec 10, 2020)

Thanks Bob. Just out of curiosity, why did you sell your FF5's? I value your opinion on these and other lights as you are very knowledgeable on the operation and function of HID lights.
Thanks for the link. Haven't decided if I'm going to order one or not.


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## ma tumba (Dec 10, 2020)

I wonder if there is a technical reason for not implementing a low mode, so that it has, say, 10W, 30W, and 100W. This would be a lot more practical, imho


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## BVH (Dec 10, 2020)

I have very little use for any of my lights other than my pocket-carry EDC. I wish it wasn't that way because I love using them. When the latest and greatest are introduced, I thoroughly enjoy picking one up just to see what it can do. A few hours playing and my needs are taken care of. Time to let them go to someone who will use them. Plus, when "your" used to being around the real heavy iron and seeing what they can do, the handhelds obviously don't compare in performance. That is a downside to having the heavy iron. It's more difficult to be impressed. I will say the FF5 is a great performer and for a very reasonable price even with no discount.


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## XeRay (Dec 10, 2020)

ma tumba said:


> I wonder if there is a technical reason for not implementing a low mode, so that it has, say, 10W, 30W, and 100W. This would be a lot more practical, imho




Yes there is, about 30-40 watts is the normal bottom end of this technology (depending on the bulb and electronics) with a bulb that could be run in the 70 to 100 Watt range. Can't reliably sustain an arc for long bulb life down below that. We make dual wattage ballasts and have played with tri power levels too. As an example it could be 40/60/80W. Philips and Osram have made 25 watts HID bulb products but you would not want to run it very much higher than 40 watts.


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## ma tumba (Dec 10, 2020)

XeRay said:


> Yes there is, about 30-40 watts is the normal bottom end of this technology (depending on the bulb and electronics) with a bulb that could be run in the 70 to 100 Watt range. Can't reliably sustain an arc for long bulb life down below that. We make dual wattage ballasts and have played with tri power levels too. As an example it could be 40/60/80W. Philips and Osram have made 25 watts HID bulb products but you would not want to run it very much higher than 40 watts.



I see, thank you. 

I think that in this case I would like to see an LED/HID combo one day. Something that looks like manker mk39


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## Parker VH (Dec 10, 2020)

So what do you have for your EDC light?



BVH said:


> I have very little use for any of my lights other than my pocket-carry EDC. I wish it wasn't that way because I love using them. When the latest and greatest are introduced, I thoroughly enjoy picking one up just to see what it can do. A few hours playing and my needs are taken care of. Time to let them go to someone who will use them. Plus, when "your" used to being around the real heavy iron and seeing what they can do, the handhelds obviously don't compare in performance. That is a downside to having the heavy iron. It's more difficult to be impressed. I will say the FF5 is a great performer and for a very reasonable price even with no discount.


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## BVH (Dec 10, 2020)

It's been my edc for a few years so I think it's a 4-7's Mini123 with Turbo head by Vinh in Stainless. The 123 in the std and this version have been my EDC's since they came out years ago. I think this one does 1200 or 1500 Lumens but rarely use that level. The turbo head throws a very long beam this this size of light.


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## Parker VH (Dec 11, 2020)

Did a quick search but can't seem to find anything on this light specifically so I assume it's pretty old. Always looking for a good EDC light.



BVH said:


> It's been my edc for a few years so I think it's a 4-7's Mini123 with Turbo head by Vinh in Stainless. The 123 in the std and this version have been my EDC's since they came out years ago. I think this one does 1200 or 1500 Lumens but rarely use that level. The turbo head throws a very long beam this this size of light.


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## BVH (Dec 11, 2020)

Parker VH said:


> Did a quick search but can't seem to find anything on this light specifically so I assume it's pretty old. Always looking for a good EDC light.



Vinhs mod:

https://skylumen.com/products/foursevens-mini-turbo-mk-iii-david-goliath?variant=30269019521047

Factory link:

https://darksucks.com/collections/foursevens/products/mini-turbo-mk-iii

Mine is the older version of the Goliath with White1 spec on Vinhs page. I've found over the many years that I don't care for a push button EDC. I like the twisty switch.


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## Parker VH (Dec 11, 2020)

Thank you very much. Does this light have a decent combination of throw and coverage area? Not just a real tight beam pattern?



BVH said:


> Vinhs mod:
> 
> https://skylumen.com/products/foursevens-mini-turbo-mk-iii-david-goliath?variant=30269019521047
> 
> ...


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## BVH (Dec 11, 2020)

I think there's good flood along with the prominent hot spot at distance. If you want more flood than throw, I'd get the non-turbo head and higher Lumen/less mcd led, I think it was 1200 Lumens IIRC.


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## Parker VH (Dec 11, 2020)

Thanks Bob. I won't hijack this thread any more. Still deciding on buying the FF5.


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## Saul Good (May 6, 2021)

I just received my FF5 today. I was excited to fire it up, but it seems to be DOA I put in some fresh VTC5Ds, the led lights up on the tailcap, but it won't turn on. Could I be missing something like a lockout function? I tried different cells and the extra carrier I got for it. Check battery polarity. Any suggestions are welcome. I also emailed Neal. I'm excited for this light! Thanks!


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