# *Review* NeoFab LegionII



## Patriot (Apr 16, 2009)

*Review of the NeoFab LegionII

**http://neo-fab.com/legionII/*
* 
Recently I was sent Neoseikans Legion II for the purpose of testing and beamshot comparisons with the M6 HOLA. I also included a few beamshot comparisons with some other interesting lights.










Here are the specs.

**The Specs*

* Powerful, Precise, Reliable Driver. ( We use 0.007 ohm resistors from Vishay/Dale. )
* Current Up to 3000mA.
* Best Current Regulation At Any Level, Without Audiable Noise.
* Reverse Voltage Protection
* 5 Exponential Levels.
* Thumb Control Without Strain On The Wrist.
* Revolutionary UI, The Easiest Way To Level Up/Down.
* Quick Access to Any 2 Default Levels.
* Built-in Battery Gauge.
* Over-discharge protection.
* Built-in Battery Holder.
* Ultimate Thermal Management.
* Custom Hi-End Parts.* B270 Multi-layer AR Coated Lens With 99.5% Transparence
* ALCOA 7075-T651
* CNC Machining
* TYPE III Hard Anodizing​Length: About 177mm.
Head Diameter: 53mm.
Housing Diameter: 41.5mm


Output: 
2.9A(full distance)
*L1 = 98 lumens, L2 = 157, L3 = 264, L4 = 456, L5 = 742.*
--by WBP

Battery level6 (full)->level5 : About 35mins.
Battery level5 (good)->level4: About 35mins.
Battery level4 (fair)->level3: About 25mins.
Battery level3 (low)->level2: About 15mins.
Battery level2 (quite low)->Warning->level1->Auto OFF: 10mins.


*Run Times: *

*I was fortunate to have this light for a couple of weeks before having to reluctantly pass it along to the next reviewer. I really got to give the light a good work out and I went through 4 fully charged sets of 18650's during the process. The runtimes were impressive considering the overall output of this light. 

High
AW 18650's 2200mAh cells provided 2:14
LG 18650's 2600mAh cells provided 2:42

Low
Tenergy 18650's 2600mAh cells provided between
22 and 23 hours. I didn't see how many minutes it lasted but I was checking it every hour.



Temperatures:

During the run-time test I measured the peak temperatures during both set's of batteries but temperatures were about the same for each. The light was set on the ceramic tile floor with no additional airflow. I really wanted to put this light to the test so I didn't go easy on it. During both sets of batteries, max temperatures were reached within about 40-42 minutes into the run. After than the light stayed at that reading throughout the run.

Ambient temp of tile:





Bottom of stainless tailcap:





Base of light body:





Hottest point on the light:





At 145 degrees the light was uncomfortable to the touch. It was so warm that I could only hold it in each hand for several seconds before I had to switch hands. The more I handled it the more the light cooled back down. During continuous handling the light stayed about 120-125 degrees. It's impressive to me that 3 x 18650's could produce so much heat and light for over two and a half hours but I guess that's just a good reminder of how much energy li-ion batteries actually store.


User Interface:

I think this unique interface is probably the light's greatest feature and at the same time a place where some of my main complaints reside. The operation of the ring itself is very beautifully smooth in both directions. There isn't any forward or backward play to speak of and in my estimation it had just the right amount of tension or spring resistance in each direction. Any more tension it might be difficult to operation with one hand (more specifically the thumb and forefinger) while any less tension might allow the light to inadvertently turn on if was in a case or stuffed in your back pocket to free a hand. The amount of knurling seemed just about right also.

To turn the light from off to high you twist the ring to the right and hold it there for about 4 seconds. After that each additional twist to the right decreases the output level down one pre-set. To turn the light of you twist and hold the ring to the left for about 2 seconds.

To turn the light from off to low you twist the ring to the left for about 1.5-2 seconds and the light comes on at it's lowest level. After than each additional twist to the left bumps the output level up one pre-set.

This is a mostly intuitive and natural set-up except that I'd like to see a right twist always increase output and a left twist always decrease output. I think that would be more natural and even after playing with the light several days I'd occasionally twist the wrong way just because of how my brain thinks. 

My other complaint is that it takes far too long to turn the light from off to high, which my stop watch showed to be about 4.2 seconds. Obviously the light goes to full output the moment the ring is turned but if you set the light down before "continuous run" is engaged, it will turn back off. A blink occurs once continuous run is engaged providing a visual aid instead of having to guess. This is a small detail but very important during use. To give and example of what this might be light imagine a forward clicky that you had to hold for over 4 seconds to turn on for hands free use. During my photo sessions of the light the extraordinarily long pause caused me to grow impatient with it several times because I was busy cycling through other lights, placing the on the tripod, aiming them, taking the shots, etc. The LegionII always slowed me down. Although turning the light off takes half the time, it's still a pause that I felt was just a bit too long. 

Now this is just a prototype and evedently NeoFab is still working out the details. From that stand point I'll extend them a big break but hopefully these issues can be sorted out. I think that a full second to turn the light to continuous mode, either full on or full off would be reasonable and user friendly. 



Build Quality:

This is always one of those areas that can be highly subjective. Without actually testing the lights to destruction it's hard to compare one light to another and so it seems that most lights get the nod with regards to perceived toughness. 

By all accounts this light seems very durable. It has a stainless bezel and tail cap which I like very much. One of the ends of the flashlight normally take the brunt of the blow if dropped and I love stainless steel because often any damage can be buffed out in the event of an accident. Obviously this is only important to us guys & gals who enjoy keeping our lights looking nice. 

The light is made of 7075 aluminum which seems to be very resistant to deformation in my experience. Aluminum is probably my all time favorite flashlight material because it's lightweight and has great thermal properties. 7075 is as good as it gets in the flashlight industry so I praise NeoFab for choosing a great material.

The HA finish is very light in color which I kind of like. It sets it apart from Surefire style HA that's so common these days. It almost has a transparent look to it and appears to have a luster that other HA lights don't have unless they've been polished with plastic buffer compound. There were a few finish flaws and specs on my test sample but again, this is a proto and I don't know what else the light has been through before it came to me. It's possible that it didn't come out of the anodizing process like that but instead happened later. Maybe Neo can comment about that.

The machining is a 9.5 out of 10. It's nearly perfect in every area and a notch above nearly every production light that I own. It was difficult to locate imperfections and I had to find them with a magnifying glass. Very nice! Have a look....

**



*








*Some physical size and color comparisons with the well known M6:












I was asked by Neoseikan not to take the light apart because it could damage it. So the most disassemble you'll being seeing in this review is the removal of the tailcap. This was a limiting factor in really digging beneath the surface which I dearly wanted to do but because it's a prototype certain things were off limits.


**Battery configuration and tailcap threads












That beautiful emitter and reflector. Notice the magnified LED die gaps projected onto the reflector. 






 






Output Performance vs. M6 HOLA

One of the main reasons that I was asked to test the LegionII is because I'd be comparing it to the well known M6 HOLA which has long been the one of the standard or perhaps "benchmarks" for lights this size. Here are the some results. 


Legion II on high (op reflector)





M6 MN21 (fresh Energizer batteries 2017 exp)





Legion II (op reflector) (underexposed) 





M6 MN21 (underexposed)






Lux measurements at 1 meter:

LegionII 14,800 (measured at brightest point outside of donut)
M6 MN21 15,600


Although the M6 threw a little bit better the Legion II would undoubtedly out throw the MN21 if the smooth reflector was installed. It's apparent to me that the Legion II is out putting more overall lumens. For some reason the MN21 didn't look as bright as it normally does so the next night I used a different M6 with different bulb, batteries, and battery carrier. The only difference with the following pictures is that the white balance was set to daylight instead of auto. Some other members asked if I could take some shots with this setting so I did. I see benefits to each but the negative effect is that the incandescent lights appear much more orange than they really are.


35 Yards, F4.0 @ 3.2" ISO/50 WB set to Daylight.

LegionII high





M6 HOLA Energizer 2017 expiration 





rotating gif image of LegionII and M6 HOLA







F4.0 @ .5" ISO/50 WB set to Daylight

LegionII (underexposed)





M6 HOLA Energizer 2017 expiration (underexposed)





**rotating gif image of LegionII and M6 HOLA (underexposed)*
*







Lux measurements at 10 meters:

LegionII 13,900 **(measured at brightest point outside of donut)*
* M6 MN21 17,800



My take on outright output. It's a really tough call when comparing LED to incan when their output levels are so close. Both M6 HOLA's measured higher lux in throw tests and seemed to increase when doing 10 meter trials, probably due to where the reflector focuses. During ceiling bounce tests the LegionII measured higher than the first M6 but lower than the second M6 tested, (Those numbers later). During general use I'd have to go out on a limb and say that the LegionII had a generally more user friendly beam than the M6. It was much wider and provided more spill which many will argue makes the better utilitarian light every time. This despite the relatively noticable donut shape in the LegionII's beam. White wall hunters my find great fault with this light because of the "donut" but in use I can honestly say that it was a non-issue for me. When pointing it at anything other than a garage door or wall the donut goes unnoticed. Look at what's gained by using the MC-E, over 2 and a 1/2 hours of 750-800 lumens, dead steady due to fantastic regulation. The M6 on primaries falls well below the LegionII's output within five minutes into their run. For some time now I haven't been a huge fan of primaries in the M6 since li-ion options are so far superior with regards to run-time and flatter output, but comparing one stock set-up to another stock set-up there is really no comparison. I have to give the trophy to the LegionII in every area of output except throw. Color temperature is far more subjective and those needing high CRI will still favor the M6 initially until the beam is orange 15 minutes later. Obviously these lights were designed for a different purpose which has to be acknowledged but for general purpose though I favor the output qualities of the LegionII. 
**



LUX MEASUREMENTS added 4.21.09

These were shot in my integrating bathroom with the lux setting sensitivity set to 200 peak. The lights were all aimed at the opposite upper corner of the room where the ceiling and wall meet. 

Camera settings were .5" @ F5.6 ISO 50 White Balance set to Daylight. 


Control 1.6 lux (zebra headlamp on medium)





DEFT Q5 WC 10.9 lux





**DBS V2 Q5 WC 15.5 lux





Jil EZnite 10W HID 24.2 lux





M6 HOLA (sample one) 43.5 lux





LegionII 46.2 lux





M6 HOLA (sample two) 50.4 lux





FM11 52.8 lux





Mag 1185 3C modamag reflector 78.6 lux





M6 1185 3 x 17670s 88.4 lux





WiseLED Tactical 7 x P4s 91.2 lux






**DEFT Q5 WC 10.9 lux*
*DBS V2 Q5 WC 15.5 lux
**Jil EZnite 10W HID 24.2 lux*
*M6 HOLA (sample one) 43.5 lux*
*LegionII 46.2 lux
**M6 HOLA (sample two) 50.4 lux
**FM11 52.8 lux
**Mag 1185 3C modamag reflector 78.6 lux
**M6 1185 3 x 17670s 88.4 lux
**WiseLED Tactical 7 x P4s 91.2 lux*
*

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## Patriot (Apr 16, 2009)

*I'll begin part two with some beamshots of the LegionII with some random lights. Tomorrow night I'll post the ceiling bounce tests.



Lights from left to right. WiseLED Tactical, LegionII, M6 1185, FM11, Jil EZnite 10W





Control







Target is the center of the Mesquite tree 

LegionII





Jil EZnite





FM11





M6 1185





WiseLED Tactical










Gif Images

LegionII & Control





LegionII & Jil EZnite





LegionII & FM11





LegionII & M6 1185





LegionII & WiseLED Tactical










COLOR COMPARISONS Added 4.21.09. Camera settings: Auto exposure with White Balance set to Daylight.


Control (outdoors in direct sunlight)





Fluorescent bathroom lights





DBS V2 Q5 WC





Jil EZnite





LegionII





M6 HOLA





M61185





WiseLED Tactical P4






It was very interesting to me that the LegionII and WiseLED seemed to approximate the color of direct sunlight the best. Technically speaking, LED's and HID's do produce color temperatures that are closer to that of daylight, so I guess from that perspective it's not surprise.


 

*


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## Derek Dean (Apr 16, 2009)

Excellent review and photos. Thanks!


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## evenchaos (Apr 16, 2009)

Excellent review. Can't wait to get my hands on my copy.

Just a question/note - when measuring lux of the Legion II, did you measure it at the brightest part of the beam or the center? With the prominent doughnut hole, you will get a smaller reading dead smack in the center as opposed to slightly to the side (subject to how large the sensor of your meter is)


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## primox1 (Apr 16, 2009)

this legionII looks very promising. thanks for doing this great review! :thumbsup:


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## DM51 (Apr 16, 2009)

Excellent review! Looking forward to the additional details, but you've given some very interesting info, and superb photos. This looks a very high-quality light.

The temperature measurements are very useful. Would you say the continuous 120-125 deg. was acceptable for handling? 

I'm moving it to the Reviews section.


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## Zeruel (Apr 16, 2009)

Great review, Patriot. And wise of you to compare against M6. :thumbsup:
I was initially wowed by the light and now I'm am wow wow weed.


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## frosty (Apr 16, 2009)

Very interesting. Looks like a great light.


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## sledhead (Apr 16, 2009)

Fantastic review. All the high quality photos, great comparisons and summary make a complete review. The temperature readings were icing on the cake!
Waiting for my #14 just became much harder!!:thumbsup:


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## AardvarkSagus (Apr 16, 2009)

Excellent review there. Yes I would have to state the throw is drastically reduced when using the textured reflector over the smooth. However the beam is so much more pleasing and useful. The SMO reflector puts a intensely bright circle of light downrange so well that you would think it's a revised Bat-Signal. 

Excellent photos!


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## Steve Curtis (Apr 16, 2009)

Does the SMO reflector have a hole?


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## smflorkey (Apr 16, 2009)

Nicely done, Patriot! I especially liked the temperature information. 


Patriot said:


> *I think this unique interface is probably the light's greatest feature and at the same time a place where some of my main complaints reside.*


I bought an early Spartanian II which has the same type of control ring (in general). I absolutely agree with your sentiment above.


Patriot said:


> *To turn the light from off to high you twist the ring to the right and hold it there for about 4 seconds...This is a mostly intuitive and natural set-up except that I'd like to see a right twist always increase output and a left twist always decrease output.*


I seem to recall reading in the L2 development/pre-order thread that the review prototypes were programmed by someone left handed so the directions are reversed from what they should be. My S2 uses right-twist to increase and left-twist to decrease which I feel is a pretty intuitive association with most plumbing, volume controls, etc.


Patriot said:


> *My other complaint is that it takes far too long to turn the light from off to high.*


While I totally understand this complaint, it is far more subjective. I have felt the same way about the S2 at times. At other times I have wished for a longer delay, and the S2's left-twist delay to latch on is about the same as you measured on your L2. Let me explain my waffling. :laughing:

My S2 spends its time either in my pocket or on the headboard of my bed. If it's not in my pocket during the day that is because that pocket just doesn't fit the S2 well. (Sounds like I'll have to get a better tailor. ) Like you, when I want it to latch on I would like that to be as instant as a clicky switch. However, there may be times when the S2 is pressed into tactical duty. At those times the 4 second delay to latch on is about right or maybe a little short. 

Now I'll be the first to admit the S2 is not marketed as a tactical light, and it really isn't. I programmed my S2 to start in its highest output on left-twist because that is where the longer delay to latch is. Right-twist on mine starts in the second from lowest level for navigating a house full of sleepers at night without breaking my toes. I think it is a great testament to Neoseikan's ring UI that it can be forced into tactical duty in a pinch.

I hope that perspective helps you give Neoseikan a higher score for the amazing balance and flexibility of this UI.

Shalom, 
Steve


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## Patriot (Apr 16, 2009)

evenchaos said:


> Excellent review. Can't wait to get my hands on my copy.
> 
> Just a question/note - when measuring lux of the Legion II, did you measure it at the brightest part of the beam or the center? With the prominent doughnut hole, you will get a smaller reading dead smack in the center as opposed to slightly to the side (subject to how large the sensor of your meter is)




Thank you. Yes, lux was always measured where the highest numbers were reached on my "cheapie" DX light meter. I would slowly move the beam around on a fluid head tripod and record the points of of highest lux.





> *DM51
> *Excellent review! Looking forward to the additional details, but you've given some very interesting info, and superb photos. This looks a very high-quality light.
> 
> The temperature measurements are very useful. Would you say the continuous 120-125 deg. was acceptable for handling?


Thanks DM51, yes the light was easy to handle at the lower temperatures and the 20 degree drop made all the difference. Still, it caused my hand to sweat some which could get a little hard to hold onto with its mostly smooth light body. It would be interesting to test it again here in AZ in two months:sweat:






> *Steve Curtis
> *Does the SMO reflector have a hole?


Big time! It's also why I focus most of my testing on the OP reflector. The beam was much better as *AardvarkSagus* had stated.






> *smflorkey
> *While I totally understand this complaint, it is far more subjective. I have felt the same way about the S2 at times. At other times I have wished for a longer delay, and the S2's left-twist delay to latch on is about the same as you measured on your L2. Let me explain my waffling. :laughing:
> 
> My S2 spends its time either in my pocket or on the headboard of my bed. If it's not in my pocket during the day that is because that pocket just doesn't fit the S2 well. (Sounds like I'll have to get a better tailor. ) Like you, when I want it to latch on I would like that to be as instant as a clicky switch. However, there may be times when the S2 is pressed into tactical duty. At those times the 4 second delay to latch on is about right or maybe a little short.


Very Good point. By the very nature of the light and function of the twist ring I wasn't using the light that way which is probably why for me the delay was a problem. Could it be a "tactical" light? Hmm, I suppose it could be used that way for some things. I mean, it certainly wouldn't be out of place by the night stand or something. Would SWAT teams be using it? That could be another discussion I guess.







Thanks for the nice words, and your thoughts to everyone else.


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## 9x23 (Apr 16, 2009)

Patriot

Thanks for the excellent informative review and photos. The beam comparison to an M6 really helps me to understand the Legion's beam brightness and pattern. It also appears to be well heatsinked since there is only an 11 degree temp difference between the hottest and coolest parts, but I didn't expect a big chunk of aluminum to get that hot! I guess that means that the heat generated is dispersed to the entire body nicely to allow for extended runtimes. I can't wait to get mine! 

9x23


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## ehallspqr (Apr 16, 2009)

Yes great review of a very promising light. I also have one on order and expect a long wait because of production issues. These reviews keep a flashaholic going. There's a good selection in the latest crop of "hand Cannons". It seems like the Legion II will make a good choice. Thanks Patriot


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## 9x23 (Apr 16, 2009)

DM51 said:


> Excellent review! Looking forward to the additional details, but you've given some very interesting info, and superb photos. This looks a very high-quality light.
> 
> The temperature measurements are very useful. Would you say the continuous 120-125 deg. was acceptable for handling?
> 
> I'm moving it to the Reviews section.



DM51,

This info may be of some help in figuring out how "hot" the temps are relative to some better known items. A "typical" hot water heater at home on the standard setting puts out hot water at 120 degrees F to prevent scalding on kids. For commercial kitchens the hot water setting is usually 140 degrees F, and for those of you that have the newer dish washers with the Sanitary Rinse it runs at 160-170 degrees F. So.....140 degrees F is plenty hot!

9x23


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## AardvarkSagus (Apr 16, 2009)

Yeah, Neo mentioned to me that this review sample was made with the Left Handed UI. I was pretty confused when I was bouncing between my S2 and the L2 during my review. 

Oh yeah, you better believe the SMO had a hole in the beam. VERY noticeable.

I know that a suggestion has been made to Neoseikan to change the UI to "latch" on immediately with a simple twist and release, whereas holding the ring one direction of the other longer than a quarter of a second or so would convert it into momentary mode for as long as is necessary, with no accidental "latch". I think this revision, as-is would create a far more useful interface, however I still would drastically prefer to also have the ability to switch off instantly (when it is latched on). Not as big of a deal however with a true open ended momentary mode.


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## applevision (Apr 16, 2009)

Awesome review. Thank you!!

I want one more than ever.

Can't wait to see the shoot out between this baby and the EagleTacs!!


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## Ryanrpm (Apr 16, 2009)

Patriot,

Did you say that you no longer have the light...and you had to pass it on to another reviewer?


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## Patriot (Apr 16, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> Patriot,
> 
> Did you say that you no longer have the light...and you had to pass it on to another reviewer?




Correct, it's gone now unfortunately. Usually I try to post the review while I still have the light but I've been behind with work, had some computer issues, was sick for a couple of days...so yeah I kinda got behind a bit. The material in the review is about 1/3 of what I actually collected so if you had other questions about it I might have photos or text already written which might address them. 






> *AardvarkSagus
> *Yeah, Neo mentioned to me that this review sample was made with the Left Handed UI. I was pretty confused when I was bouncing between my S2 and the L2 during my review.
> 
> I didn't know that! ...lol. That explains a lot doesn't it.


I fully agree with you about the interface. Instant off is in some ways more important than a delayed continuous on. To the member who made the statement about LegionII regarding "tactical lights." The delayed off is the first thing that came to mind but I was on my way out the door to work this morning. An important point though. 







> *9x23
> *
> Thanks for the excellent informative review and photos. The beam comparison to an M6 really helps me to understand the Legion's beam brightness and pattern. It also appears to be well heatsinked since there is only an 11 degree temp difference between the hottest and coolest parts, but I didn't expect a big chunk of aluminum to get that hot! I guess that means that the heat generated is dispersed to the entire body nicely to allow for extended runtimes. I can't wait to get mine!


I agree, the light is amazingly well heat sinked and I was just as impressed as you regarding the differential between highest and lowest temperatures on the body itself. I also didn't expect the temperatures to be where they where because as you also stated, that's a lot of mass to heat up. Obviously the cooling fins on the head are important and necessary. It's also another testimony, as if it was really needed, that the MC-E is being seriously driven in this light. I thought the Legion was pretty nice when I first saw it but after having the light for a couple of weeks it really grew on me. Any light smaller than the M6 which produces more output and spill than the MN21 is automatically noteworthy. That fact that it can run like that continously for two and a half hours almost seems impossible. This thing is just so darn efficient that it's hard for me to wrap my brain around it.




Thanks to everyone in this thread for their kind remarks and support of the review.


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## Patriot (Apr 17, 2009)

Some images added to part two.


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## applevision (Apr 17, 2009)

Wow, great images *Patriot*! I love the on-off effect.

Thank you for the great work!!


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## FlashlightsNgear.com (Apr 17, 2009)

Great Review, I just got this bad azz flashlight in the mail ( LegionII ) and shes a beauty  Maybe later I can add some beamshots, the only MC-E flashlight I have right now to compare to it is a MG-RX1 MC-E from Shinning Beam, Ill do my best, but their is a huge price difference between the 2 lights. Wish me luck, Iam charging new batteries now..


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## Ryanrpm (Apr 17, 2009)

d1live said:


> Great Review, I just got this bad azz flashlight in the mail ( LegionII ) and shes a beauty  Maybe later I can add some beamshots, the only MC-E flashlight I have right now to compare to it is a MG-RX1 MC-E from Shinning Beam, Ill do my best, but their is a huge price difference between the 2 lights. Wish me luck, Iam charging new batteries now..


 
Best news I've heard on the forum today! I'm excited about a comparison with the RX-1/MC-E and L2......


:thumbsup:


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## woodrow (Apr 18, 2009)

Patriot...Wow...Fantastic review! I am never sure which I am more impressed by...the review or your collection (ok...thats a lie...it ALWAYS is your incredible light collection)

Thanks for the great pics ang giffs. This light really does look like a winner. I do like the little 10w hid though too.


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## Vernon (Apr 18, 2009)

I currently use Tenergy 18650's that are protected for my A9 (with a Tenergy charger). I was about two order two more 18650's so that I would be ready for the L2, but then I saw a review that said protected cells might not fit the L2. I don't really know much about protected versus unprotected: pros, cons, precautions. Can I get some advice? Can someone who's used the L2 weigh in as well? Thanks.


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## DM51 (Apr 18, 2009)

Vernon said:


> I currently use Tenergy 18650's that are protected for my A9 (with a Tenergy charger). I was about two order two more 18650's so that I would be ready for the L2, but then I saw a review that said protected cells might not fit the L2. I don't really know much about protected versus unprotected: pros, cons, precautions. Can I get some advice? Can someone who's used the L2 weigh in as well? Thanks.


I think it would be reasonable for Vernon's question to be answered briefly here, as it is related to the L2. However, let's avoid getting too side-tracked on to Batteries, please - general discussion and information about them belong in the Batteries section.


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## FlashlightsNgear.com (Apr 18, 2009)

Vernon said:


> I currently use Tenergy 18650's that are protected for my A9 (with a Tenergy charger). I was about two order two more 18650's so that I would be ready for the L2, but then I saw a review that said protected cells might not fit the L2. I don't really know much about protected versus unprotected: pros, cons, precautions. Can I get some advice? Can someone who's used the L2 weigh in as well? Thanks.


 Quick answer here on the batteries - Protected 18650's DO NOT WORK - They are TOO LONG for the battery compartment in the LegionII, last night I took some beam shots and will post them soon. BTW unprotected batteries work fine in the LegionII due to its built in protection - everything seems top notch except the darn donut hole, besides that its a sweet flashlight. More to come, gotta finish mowing


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## Patriot (Apr 18, 2009)

d1live said:


> Quick answer here on the batteries - Protected 18650's DO NOT WORK -






That wasn't my experience with the LegionII. Black AW 18650's with silver label worked in the prototype as well as older blue label Tenergy 18650's that say "With Protective PCB." In addition to that I used unprotected LG 18650's. All in all their were 9 different batteries of 3 difference types used.

If you're going to go with the unprotected cells, purchase a quality charger that terminates at 4.2V, like the Pila IBC. The Legion II will prevent over discharge and a good charger will prevent over charge.


*EDIT: I stated "blue label Tenergy" .... I meant to say blue wrapped Tenergy"*


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## MiniLux (Apr 18, 2009)

Patriot said:


> That wasn't my experience with the LegionII. Black AW 18650's with silver label worked in the prototype as well as older blue label Tenergy 18650's that say "With Protective PCB." In addition to that I used unprotected LG 18650's. All in all their were 9 different batteries of 3 difference types used


 
So it seems as if my guess is right in that the final version is different from the prototype(s) :sigh:

MiniLux


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## Patriot (Apr 18, 2009)

woodrow said:


> Patriot...Wow...Fantastic review! I am never sure which I am more impressed by...the review or your collection (ok...thats a lie...it ALWAYS is your incredible light collection)
> 
> Thanks for the great pics ang giffs. This light really does look like a winner. I do like the little 10w hid though too.





Thanks man! ....and you're welcome. It was a really fun review because the light was so interesting. It's one that's missing from my collection now though. I like that little 10W JilLite too because it throws so well but look how hard the MC-E stomps it in the comparison gif. These MC-E's and P7's have really taken some of the fun out of the 10-12W HID's. The LED's still won't throw like the HID but still, more overall output and impressively wide beam performance!


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## neoseikan (Apr 20, 2009)

Great review.
I really like the way you use GIF.
I will try it too.

I have to say, it's warmer and warmer now, so a full-runtime test without cooling is dangerous to Legion II. But the temperature data is also great.

The runtime is amazing to myself too.


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## toby_pra (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for this great review!


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## supasizefries (Apr 21, 2009)

Wow really informative review.:twothumbs I have the little brother of this light the S2 and now I think I need to get one eventually to complete the family. :green:


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## Patriot (Apr 21, 2009)

*Indirect lux measurements with pictures added to the bottom of Part One.

Color comparisons with pictures added to the bottom of Part Two. 

Enjoy :wave:
*


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## Ilikeshinythings (Apr 22, 2009)

Wow outstanding review, nicely done!


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## easilyled (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks for the fantastic review.

The more you put everything together, the more it seems to me that this led flashlight not only holds its own with the M6 HOLA, 
but trumps it in many ways. 

That's even before you take into a/c that the led will never "burn out" and that the runtime is so many times longer whilst maintaining that high output.

The doughnut is the only slight weakness that I'd want to improve.

I would have thought a tweak in the emitter position and/or reflector shape would be possible in helping to eliminate it.

There are plenty of other quad-die lights where this is a non-issue.


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## Patriot (Apr 22, 2009)

MiniLux said:


> So it seems as if my guess is right in that the final version is different from the prototype(s) :sigh:
> 
> MiniLux




With regards to battery fit, I suppose that could be the case. The guy to ask would be Neo since he's know what dimensional changes were made if any. It's possible that the tailcap was modified too.

One other thing that I wanted to mention about that this topic....at one point I install 3 different battery lengths just to see if the three individual tailcap springs would adjust to the different sizes and it did. The light fired up with LG, AW and Tenergy cells installed at the same time. Obviously I didn't continue to run the light with mixed cells, I just wanted to see if it would turn on for a second.






> *easilyled
> *Thanks for the fantastic review.
> 
> The more you put everything together, the more it seems to me that this led flashlight not only holds its own with the M6 HOLA,
> ...



I agree. This new generation of quad dies is more than a challenge for any incan of the same size. LED and single reflector has finally reached and in many ways surpassed the M6. It's funny to light meter unregulated incans because output starts falling immediately when they're switched on and the eye can't see it. When I tested the M6 "sample two" with the light meter in the bathroom it registered just over 50 lux but within about two minutes it fell below the LegionII's 46 lux. Yes, the best M6's on primaries are slightly brighter and throw better but it really doesn't count for much in real world use. I never tested the M6's throw throughout the run-time but I'd wager to say that it couldn't throw any better than the LegionII after 5-6 minutes.

As an M6 fan I'd have to say that when it's operated on li-ion it fairs much better. Regulating the M6 would also take this light to another level but we're obviously talking about mods. To give the M6 credit it was designed something like 8 or 9 years ago so it's quite the compliment that we still hold it in such high regard. There still remains the obvious difference that one light is LED and the other incan so direct comparisons are always hard. The multi-level LED would certainly make a better day to day light but if I was assaulting a container ship hi-jacked by pirates I'd still choose the M6. It's a matter of application I suppose. 


> *easilyled*
> The doughnut is the only slight weakness that I'd want to improve.
> I would have thought a tweak in the emitter position and/or reflector shape would be possible in helping to eliminate it. There are plenty of other quad-die lights where this is a non-issue.



This is a slight weakness and it seems that the quad-dies that don't suffer from donuts usually have slightly larger reflector diameters. The M1X for example has a 63mm head vs the Legion's 53mm head. But hey, if that 10mm of difference is all that's required to correct the issue, I'll take it!!


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## ScubaSnyder (Apr 22, 2009)

Awesome, I can't wait to get mine in may hopefully in time for a big trip, this sux I am waiting for my HID ballast to be repaired for a scuba trip to florida, at least I have backups.


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## wbp (Apr 23, 2009)

Overall an excellent review, and very nice pictures.

I am a little bothered by the run time test you did with no cooling. I wonder if this might have damaged the LED. Did you take any measurements of the light's output before and after that test? This light has an excellent heak sink but it does not have any temperature sensing in the control circuit. Even the slightest air motion over the heat sink fins would have helped keep it at reasonable temperatures.

William


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## Patriot (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks *wbp*, 

The ceiling fan was on in the kitchen blowing down to the floor so I'm sure that helped some. The emitter is fine as the pictures taken of the garage door were after that test as well as the lux measurements in the bathroom which coincide with the lux measurements at 1m and 10m that were taken before the run-test.


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## ichoderso (Apr 23, 2009)

thank you, very interesting!

Jens


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## BlueBeam22 (Jun 5, 2009)

I am sorry for my reply to this thread being as late as it is. This is an amazing review Patriot! I love the tree beamshots, and I can tell the FM11 generates extremely high lux.


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## Patriot (Jun 7, 2009)

Thanks BlueBeam. That little FM11 is one of my best throwing incans outside of my spotlight class of lights. FM's reflector really does well when paired with the WA1111 bulb.


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## MiniLux (Jun 7, 2009)

I had some spare time today, so I did a runtime test on my Legion 2 using new AW 18650 2600mAh (were at their 1st charge):
2h32 on max ... not bad 

MiniLux


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## Patriot (Jun 9, 2009)

MiniLux said:


> I had some spare time today, so I did a runtime test on my Legion 2 using new AW 18650 2600mAh (were at their 1st charge):
> 2h32 on max ... not bad
> 
> MiniLux





That's encouraging from the new 2600's right off of their first charge. I just received three of them myself and I'm running them in a FM Megalennium body. It's set-up with an 1185 lamp right now but I haven't performed a run-time test yet. I'm hoping for about 36-40 minutes though.


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## VF1Jskull1 (Jun 9, 2009)

i really want this light.. but i also want the eagletac m2x4 also... gotta buy 5 batteries to go with them if i get both... damn my wallet will get definitely get lighter... 

if you had to get choose, would it be this one or the eagletac?


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## Patriot (Jun 11, 2009)

That's a difficult call for me to make VFJ1. The value of the EagleTac is an attractive lure. Add to that the better beam without any donut hole and I might lean in that direction myself. Still, the L2 is a custom light with more battery capacity, unmatched regulation, and a unique UI. There's also the issue of exclusivity with the L2 which is kind of neat. I wish I had an easy answer for you but I don't. Then again, if money is tight the value of the EagleTac counts for a lot.


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## easilyled (Jun 11, 2009)

VF1Jskull1 said:


> i really want this light.. but i also want the eagletac m2x4 also... gotta buy 5 batteries to go with them if i get both... damn my wallet will get definitely get lighter...
> 
> if you had to get choose, would it be this one or the eagletac?



Right now, I'd choose any of the mass-produced quad-die lights like the eagletac m2x4 or Jetbeam m1x in preference to the LegionII.

Not because the LegionII sample in this review isn't a great light, but because of all the problems that people have experienced 
in the LegionIIs that they have received and the lack of communication by neoseikan in addressing these issues.

You will see this if you look in the Manufacturers section in CPFMarketPlace in the relevant thread.

Your light might take a long time to arrive and if there are any problems it will take an even longer time to resolve them (if at all)

However I know Eagletac the company have been very quick to address any problems reported with their lights.


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## VF1Jskull1 (Jun 11, 2009)

i've read the posts from the cpfmfg's threads too... 
as much as i want the legion 2 for the construction, unique (aren't they all...) battery setup, and incredible regulation, i've come to decide that i'll get the eagletac m2x4 over the legion 2 for now, being that it is readily available and the support quick to respond when something goes bad... thanks for the discussion and for the reviews too. time to order and outshine the dx 3xcree i got for my brother last year.


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## applevision (Jun 11, 2009)

VF1Jskull1 said:


> i've read the posts from the cpfmfg's threads too...
> as much as i want the legion 2 for the construction, unique (aren't they all...) battery setup, and incredible regulation, i've come to decide that i'll get the eagletac m2x4 over the legion 2 for now, being that it is readily available and the support quick to respond when something goes bad... thanks for the discussion and for the reviews too. time to order and outshine the dx 3xcree i got for my brother last year.



Sad to say, I've concluded the same thing.

I pulled trigger on the both the M2 and the M2X and love them both! Fabulous lights that scratch the itch for this class... Neofab was this close to a home run and it breaks my heart.
:mecry:


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## MiniLux (Jun 11, 2009)

MiniLux said:


> I had some spare time today, so I did a runtime test on my Legion 2 using new AW 18650 2600mAh (were at their 1st charge):
> 2h32 on max ... not bad
> 
> MiniLux


 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2970294&postcount=73

I ordered a batch of these, got them two days ago, charged ...
As I don't have a suitable discharger, I did a runtime test on Legion 2.

Runtime (max) on Panasonic NCR18650 2900mAH (1st charge):
2h52 starts blinking
2h55 shuts off

MiniLux


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