# Any TW4 fans anymore?



## ttran97 (Nov 20, 2007)

I guess this probably belongs here. I know that there are so many Cree's out there and the new E1L is probably really cool, but I was just wondering if there were still any fans of the TW4 (E1e + KL4). Back in the day, that was a pretty bright flood light in a compact body. It's hard to believe that it's been around for nearly 5 years.

Anyway, I'd like to see pics and hear your thoughts on this oldie but goodie. Here's mine...one of the first TW4's:





As you can see, the bezel's taken its share of beatings over the years. But this puppy's a world traveler. Been to over 15 airports in the US, 4 different islands in the Caribbean, and even over to Spain.


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 20, 2007)

Although I don't have anymore of these lights, they are still great. It's amazing that as soon as something new comes out, the last "state-of-the-art" product gets throw aside. It was just yesterday, that Lux-III ___-bin was the thing to have. Now we have Cree and Soule and those other lights are now considered garbage by many.


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## MarNav1 (Nov 21, 2007)

I've got a very nice black one with an E2D tail, I like it and it looks great but I don't use it. My ML1 gets used more. Not sure where the term TW4 came from though.


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## 270winchester (Nov 21, 2007)

*T*actical *W*arehouse L*4* package or something like that.

I still EDC an L4. It works everytime I click the switch and I know it will come on next time I click it. Can't beat that.


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## ttran97 (Nov 21, 2007)

Actually, I came up with the term TW4. Tactical Warehouse used to be one of the biggest dealers here on CPF. At the time, I worked on their webpage and helped with customers and stuff. When the KL4 first started shipping, we decided to sell the E1e with the KL4 as a package, hence the TW4 name. The KL1 at the time wasn't very bright at all, and there were few mods that would have made the light affordable to the general CPF public. 

But anyway, it's been years since TW was sold and I've been away from CPF for a while. It still brings a smile to my face whenever I see someone mention that they have a "TW4"...especially some of the newer members. Nothing like a trip down Old Memory Lane, huh fellas? :thumbsup:


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## MarNav1 (Nov 21, 2007)

Is Tactical Warehouse gone now?


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## ttran97 (Nov 21, 2007)

MARNAV1 said:


> Is Tactical Warehouse gone now?



Yeah, Dan sold his company back in 2005... I occasionally try to talk him into opening another flashlight business. Maybe I'll give him a call and bug him some more. haha. :naughty:


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## Robocop (Nov 21, 2007)

I have now hundreds of lights after years of collecting and using them nightly on duty. Many are costly while some are cheap however I enjoy them all. Without a doubt the single most useful light I own is my trusty TW4 original. It still wows me with each use and that wall of light and has never failed me once as a back up light. Yes it has saved my butt several times and I wish I had a second one but they are rare.

With the better rechargeable 123 cells today the TW4 can still hold its own with many of todays top lights. It is truly a perfect blend of size and function and looks great with a VG1 body. My TW4 is still one of my favorites and I will carry it until it either breaks or I retire...(10 more years)


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 21, 2007)

I have used that configuration over the years. Sold and lost KL4's, but one is in the mail (L4) and I intend to put the head on my E1E. A true TW4 user would use the CR123, but I will go with a Powerizer RCR123.

Bill


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## quokked (Nov 21, 2007)

I still run a TW4 on a VG FB-1 body 
Running a RCR123a


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## Robocop (Nov 21, 2007)

Bullzeyebill the ability to use a standard 123 cell was what sold me on this light originally and the original TW4s were hand picked with a lower vf to do just that if I remember correct. I loved the light then however with the R123s it was perfect for a short run/high power back up light....I just could not resist the ability to run in regulation if even for a short time on R123 cells.

The best part of this light for me was that my best friend Owen traded it to me for a sweet deal....I cant remember exactly the trade but I think it was for an Ultra-G and something like a Fenix L1P....regardless it was the best trade I ever made as I have used this light often. Many nights it has searched a building or came in handy on a traffic stop when my main light went dim from user error....( I forgot to charge it fully...hehe)

The amazing thing is I just tried it on a standard cell and it has been a long time since I powered it this way. It is still very bright even from 3 volts and I had forgotten just how nice this set up was.


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## Robocop (Nov 21, 2007)

I found the old thread where I had to repair my VG1 clip. Scroll to the bottom for pics.... http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=115126 

After months of stressing the clip on my thicker duty belt the threads were stripping out. I was determined to find a stronger way to attatch the clip and eventually did just that.....not as pretty however this clip is not stripping anymore and I feel much better knowing it will not be lost. I also attatch the lanyard loop to a keeper on my belt just in case. Of all my lights if I lost this one I would hate it the most.


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## Well-Lit (Nov 21, 2007)

This thread reminded me of an old friend. So I opened up my parts box, put a KL4 on an E1e body, inserted a fresh AW cell and fired it up. Yup!Same warm, fuzzy, smile on my face feeling I had the first time I did it a long time ago 

With all the rapid advancement going on in the past year, I had forgotten a trusted friend. Think we'll get aquainted again...

Best Regards:
Bob


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## bxstylez (Nov 21, 2007)

not to get off topic.....

but does anyone know the size of the o-ring on the vg-f1 body?
looks like mines needs a replacing

.


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## powernoodle (Nov 21, 2007)

With the advent of CREEs, Fenixes and so forth, mine has not seem much use for a good while.


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## bxstylez (Nov 21, 2007)

noodle:

is that a cr2 body?
if so, do you know where i can get one, along with the tailcap (2-stage)?

.


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## DaFABRICATA (Nov 21, 2007)

Heres my modified TW4. It gets about 1/2 hour of runtime, and is WAY more floody than the standard KL4. I must have recieved a crappy KL4 as my first one. It was a terrible greenish/yellow, and I think the emitter was on its way out. I never really liked it to much and tried to sell it for quite some time...but nobody wanted it so I modded it with 3 Seouls and a Shark. I like the modded head VERY much.
I just recieved my Scoutlight and the KL4 on that is BAD-***!!! 

Now I understand why so many people like the L4. It is night and day between the two heads...both before modding it and after! The first one I got just sucked! I remember turning it on for the first time and being let down! I have since bought and sold many lights. After getting the Scoutlight I am EXTREMELY impessed by the KL4!


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## dtsoll (Nov 21, 2007)

Hey ttran, what is dan doing these days, sorry for the interruption!! Doug


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## milkyspit (Nov 21, 2007)

The TW4 is a classic in the history of LED lights, one I still think of with much fondness. 

These days I'm carrying a KL4 modified with Seoul SSCP4 emitter and Acorn867 multi-brightness driver, mounted on a Vital Gear single-cell clicky body with clip. I'll typically clip the thing to the neck collar on my shirt during the evenings for a handy, and bright, light that's always within easy reach. Lately that's been my EDC... I think of it kinda as the spiritual continuation of the TW4!


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## greenLED (Nov 21, 2007)

Woa! Ol'timer's reunion going on over here. Nice to see y'all guys still around!

:welcome: (again)


Incidentally, I never quite liked that setup - despite the brightness, it's too small for my paws.


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## GhostReaction (Nov 21, 2007)

I m still carrying a TW4(?) well sort of. I love single cell light and manage to get myself a long time back a KL4+VG single cell body. 
The VG body was just too short for my hands. 

Several years later my TW4 is a modded KL4 head (ARC mania booster converter and seoul) + E1L body. It can only take Primary cell brust out brighter than my Gizmo PDS and runs for close to 2 hours. :thumbsup:

The VG body got the E1L head, standard optic but with seoul led and feels like a tiny flame thrower.


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## ttran97 (Nov 21, 2007)

*Nascar*...I know you've got your Titans now! I'm sure that baby puts the TW4 to shame! hehe.

*dtsoll*...Dan's in Colorado and doing fine. Busy scaring bears away from his backyard, like always. If you want to contact him, PM me your email and I'll pass it along to him.

*milkyspit*...I can't wait to send in my KL4 for you to work your magic. It'll be like giving an old car a brand new engine! :twothumbs:

*Robocop*...that's cool that you found this light useful for duty! I bet your partners didn't think much of it when they first saw it!

*Everyone else*...those newer incarnations of the TW4 look pretty amazing. I'm glad that you guys liked this little light. Sure, everyone (non-CPFers) expects something like the M6 or even the 6P to put out a lot of light...but people sure are shocked to see this little guy light up the room!


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## rikvee (Nov 26, 2007)

Howdy flashlightfans, haven't been on these pages for over a year - had to go cold turkey .

I love the TW4, because

- it has a positive, intuitive, hard wearing switch
- it takes rechargeables
- it's small, so I can hang it around my neck
- it takes a diffuser, which also acts as a rim protector

Since I've been away so long, perhaps some of you can bring me up to date on any new lights that share all of the above qualities ....


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 26, 2007)

Got my L4. Been using it with my E1E body. One CR123 puts out about 1/3 light output of L4, but stilll that nice wide beam. RCR123 gets hot pretty quick, but really bright. Pulls 1.2 amps from battery with RCR123 and 17650, and 350mA with CR123.

Bill


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## jumpstat (Nov 26, 2007)

I used to have a TW4 configuration a while back, but I sold it of. When I looked at this thread, those feelings are coming back. TW4 are great as the output is very bright floody and even. I may be getting a E1e & KL4-BK for an all black setup...that would be a keeper.


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Nov 27, 2007)

Greattt..I stumpled upon this thread and remember my TW4 that my EX-GF kept when I broke up with her!!!!

I left it at her place and now it is never to be seen again. Maybe one day she will be kind and return it to me because the KL4 was given to me by PK at a meet. #@[email protected]#[email protected]#$#@ Sorry Paul! I'll get it back


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## ttran97 (Nov 27, 2007)

V8TOYTRUCK said:


> Greattt..I stumpled upon this thread and remember my TW4 that my EX-GF kept when I broke up with her!!!!
> 
> I left it at her place and now it is never to be seen again. Maybe one day she will be kind and return it to me because the KL4 was given to me by PK at a meet. #@[email protected]#[email protected]#$#@ Sorry Paul! I'll get it back




Man, I don't EVEN want to think about all the lights that I gave up after my last serious relationship ended. We were together for almost 3 years, so you can imagine the number of lights I gave her and her family. At least she didn't toss them all into the garbage! :green:


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Nov 27, 2007)

Where in CA are you?

Noticed you had a nice M6...wanna trade for my X990 with 1 battery and 12volt supply for unlimited runtime?


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## blitzlicht65 (Nov 27, 2007)

I love this beauties 



















Greetings:wave:


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## Telkin (Nov 27, 2007)

Nice Triplets Dirk! :twothumbs


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 27, 2007)

Tell me more about that HA-NAT flatend tailcap? Are they available from anyone? I've never seen that before.


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## Beamhead (Nov 27, 2007)

Its a Mc clikie and they can be purchased here..


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 27, 2007)

blitzlicht65, you running a E2E Defender bezel on one of them? Also, I can't remember the name of the body on the non McClicky black one. Lost my bookmark.

Bill


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## blitzlicht65 (Nov 27, 2007)

Bullzeyebill said:


> blitzlicht65, you running a E2E Defender bezel on one of them? Also, I can't remember the name of the body on the non McClicky black one. Lost my bookmark.
> 
> Bill


 
Hi Bill:wave:,

yes it's an E2d Defender bezel ring, and the other body is a Vital Gear 1*123-body.


Greetings:wave:


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks. Yes, Vital Gear, which is actually shorter than the E1E body. Really compact, but I'm not sure about the tailcap quality.

Bill


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## flash_bang (Dec 24, 2007)

what kind of runtime and brightness can you expect with the TW4? Also, how big is it?

Thanks much,
Flash


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## ttran97 (Dec 27, 2007)

flash_bang said:


> what kind of runtime and brightness can you expect with the TW4? Also, how big is it?
> 
> Thanks much,
> Flash



I'm not sure how bright the KL4 was on the E1e body...probably around 60 lumen? The KL4 was really under-driven, but it did last a while...at least 90 minutes or so before it got really ugly. As far as how big it is...it's probably the same size as an E1L. Just one battery. Here's a group picture for size comparison to other Surefires.


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## donn_ (Jan 10, 2008)

It isn't easy to decide:


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## houtex (Jan 10, 2008)

Wow,I wish I had your problems. I absolutely LOVE those VG1's.


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## ttran97 (Jan 10, 2008)

I wish I had a milky-modded black TW4...


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## SilverFox (Jan 10, 2008)

Hello Ttran97,

I retired my TW4. I discovered that Lumins Factory offers a high output lamp assembly for the E1e, and have converted back to that.

Now I am stuck with the high output E1e and my stock L4...  

Tom


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## Beastmaster (Jan 10, 2008)

That E1e LF unit is great. I've combined that with my VG FB1 body for it to become one the absolute tiniest flashlights that's useful out there.

-Steve



SilverFox said:


> Hello Ttran97,
> 
> I retired my TW4. I discovered that Lumins Factory offers a high output lamp assembly for the E1e, and have converted back to that.
> 
> ...


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## ttran97 (Jan 10, 2008)

Having milkyspit mod a KL4 and putting it on the E1e body is amazing, too! 165 lumen of pure white wall-o-lights! The downside of this setup is the cost. I think my little TW4 has over $300 invested in it! haha. But if you already have an E1e and KL4 and just itching to make it a super light...


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## milkyspit (Jan 10, 2008)

ttran97 said:


> Having milkyspit mod a KL4 and putting it on the E1e body is amazing, too! 165 lumen of pure white wall-o-lights! The downside of this setup is the cost. I think my little TW4 has over $300 invested in it! haha. But if you already have an E1e and KL4 and just itching to make it a super light...




Hmm... $300? I sure didn't see $300 for my part!


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## ttran97 (Jan 10, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> Hmm... $300? I sure didn't see $300 for my part!



No, the milkspit mod was a VERY reasonable cost. It's the cost of getting the KL4 and E1e that made up about 2/3 of that $300.


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## houtex (Jan 10, 2008)

I would like a Mliky modded.......how?


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## donn_ (Jan 10, 2008)

Can I sneak a custom TW1 into this thread?












ArcMania modded KL1-OD head, Ganp Brass Lattice 1x123 body, OD E-series clicky. All on a leather bound dictionary.


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## ttran97 (Jan 10, 2008)

houtex said:


> I would like a Mliky modded.......how?




You'll have to PM mr. milkyspit and tell him that you're interested in getting your light modded...then just mail your light to him and he'll work on it and send it back to you.


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## Cuso (Jan 12, 2008)

Those Ganp bodies are too sweet , a bit too much for that punny KL1 and SF switch..But I haven't seen any brass heads or switches other than Cubs or Peaks..


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## Beastmaster (Jan 13, 2008)

Well, I'm getting ready to build up a TW4 clone using a KL4 head, Vital Gear FB1 body, and AW's rechargable 123A's.

Once the head gets here, It'll be built up soon...

-Steve


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## yaesumofo (Jan 13, 2008)

Here is my matched pair. Is that what you are looking for?
I love this combination.





and 





Are a couple of my KL4 based flashlights. It matched pair not only look the same in the image but the beams are virtually identical. Almost impossible to do as those of you with multiple KL4's know. At least almost all of mine produce a different tinted beam except the 2 tw4's shown in the top image.
The KL4's are the same in these two images. I love that body in the lower image. It is an unmarked surefire body if I remember correctly a real beauty.
Yaesumofo


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## Beastmaster (Jan 13, 2008)

Yaesumofo -

The top pic looks like those are Aleph bodies with SF tailcaps.

-Steve


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## KeyGrip (Jan 22, 2008)

Bump for more TW4 pictures. Anybody have a runtime estimate on an AW rcr123?


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## Beastmaster (Jan 27, 2008)

Heh - do you really want to handle one that's been running for a while? I'm serious. I have to sandwich it between two cold packs in order to do a runtime test with a TW4.

As for the runtime - I get 15-16 minutes in regulation with an AW 123 rechargeable. Then it goes quickly out of regulation from there.

TW4 pics? I have one...






This is a KL4/Vital Gear 1x123 body combination. It's next to an E1e with a Lumens Factory tower.

-Steve



KeyGrip said:


> Bump for more TW4 pictures. Anybody have a runtime estimate on an AW rcr123?


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## ttran97 (Jan 27, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> Heh - do you really want to handle one that's been running for a while? I'm serious. I have to sandwich it between two cold packs in order to do a runtime test with a TW4.
> 
> As for the runtime - I get 15-16 minutes in regulation with an AW 123 rechargeable. Then it goes quickly out of regulation from there.
> 
> ...



You gotta get that KL4 modded by milkyspit, Steve! You won't be disappointed!


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## Beastmaster (Jan 27, 2008)

Well, I have one KL4 that's got the most perfect tint. That's staying put.

I have one KL4 that's my daily use unit (shown) and another one coming inbound that will likely be the Milky candidates.

I have a KL4 black unit that's going onto a VLTOR Scout mounted Aleph body.

-Steve


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 27, 2008)

I really like the old skool look of this combination..






And here is a SUPER tiny wall of light, although I typically use the Milkymod on a Mirage Man 18650.


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## houtex (Jan 27, 2008)

SOOOO jealous,esp of that black vg1.


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## KeyGrip (Jan 27, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> And here is a SUPER tiny wall of light, although I typically use the Milkymod on a Mirage Man 18650.



If I ever get my KL4 Milky modded, I'm going to run it on an 18650. Maybe I'll go really crazy and run it on a TnC C-Flex pack with an AW C cell..... oo:


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## Beastmaster (Jan 27, 2008)

Well, I've also got some of Koala's E series towers ordered. That unit may very well supplant the TW4 clones that I've got and make the light even smaller.

Anyways, I've got two more KL4 heads coming in. Once that gets done, I'm going to start flushing out most of my KL1's and may very well sell my KX1 head since it doesn't like rechargeables too much. That will fund the Milky mods. Yay!

-Steve


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## ttran97 (Jan 27, 2008)

All these black TW4's look so good...Must resist...will power fading...fading...


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## KenAnderson (Jan 28, 2008)

Beastmaster said:


> TW4 pics? I have one...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
This is actally pretty weird, I've included a photo of my KL4CE with VG 1x123 body combo. BM, you appear to have a HA body and black head, I have a black body and a HA head... :thinking:


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## Braddah_Bill (Jan 28, 2008)

Still love em.....still use em. :rock:












Bill


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## houtex (Jan 28, 2008)

Is that tail available for sale somewhere Bill? The black one.


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 28, 2008)

repeating runtimes again.. 

With RCR123(im using AW) you get 15-20min regulated runtime? ( Iahvent timed it yet)

And with CR123 you get 90min runtime? How much regulated if any?

I bought a E1E when I bought an L4 just because I should get the TW4. Im using AWs RCR right now. I like the wall of light you get from this tiny light, but what I dont like is the short runtime, and that it dosnt really fit in my hand comfortable. I have the E1E head one the L4 body and running that with an Lumens factory bulb, 2xrcr123, but Im thinking of changing it back.
This lego business is good, but hard to make up your mind, you change things back and forth all the time...


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## KeyGrip (Jan 28, 2008)

houtex said:


> Is that tail available for sale somewhere Bill? The black one.



Looks like an E2D tailcap. I don't know if you can buy a new one separately from the light, but there's a good chance you can find a used one at the MarketPlace.


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## Beastmaster (Jan 28, 2008)

Good question. I'm low on primaries, so I've been running all rechargeables for the past few months.

-Steve



FlashSpyJ said:


> repeating runtimes again..
> 
> With RCR123(im using AW) you get 15-20min regulated runtime? ( Iahvent timed it yet)
> 
> ...


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## Braddah_Bill (Jan 29, 2008)

houtex said:


> Is that tail available for sale somewhere Bill? The black one.




The tail is from a E2D that I got from Lighthound.com 

I suggest you keep an eye on the Marketplace B/S/T as they can pop up for sale from time to time, or put a WTB (want to buy) you may get lucky.




Bill


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## Braddah_Bill (Jan 29, 2008)

Double post.......


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## labrat (Feb 14, 2008)

Looks good in natural too!


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## milkyspit (Feb 14, 2008)

labrat said:


> Looks good in natural too!




Niiice! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

That's an E1 (as opposed to E1E) body, right?


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## Beastmaster (Feb 14, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> Niiice! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> 
> That's an E1 (as opposed to E1E) body, right?



Dunno. My Aleph 1x123 body looks like that too.

-Steve


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## labrat (Feb 14, 2008)

Yes, the body is from an old "E1 EXECUTIVE", the E1, with the dew-dropled head and the clip attached to the head.


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## labrat (Feb 14, 2008)

Looks good with the newly aquired bare aluminium body from Ganp too!


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## Illum (Feb 14, 2008)

I'll post my TW4 as soon as I figure out which L4 I'll be stealing the head off of in my collection:green:

throw in a little fan for size comparison, but you guys already know how small it is:huh:


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 14, 2008)

labrat said:


> Looks good in natural too!



Is that a brass shim between the head and body. Help with heat?

Bill


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## labrat (Feb 15, 2008)

No,only a red silicone O-ring showing a little bit.


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## Fuhgetaboudit (Feb 15, 2008)

I Love My *TW4's*.... with more to follow, both Milkified full FAT! ...and Non-Fat.


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## zx7dave (Feb 15, 2008)

Here's mine...Had to redo the labeling on it, but it is definately a Milky modded... With a shelf full of Fenix, I still reach for this one most of the time.


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## 270winchester (Feb 15, 2008)

I was going throught he safe last night and realized I have another KL4 sitting in there, except this one I had CM put in an XX1S emitter and driving the LED at 900 mAh. Put it out a VG FB1 and I got myself a 200+ lumen little screamer.

it's driving the LED hard enough that it can only peak with 2x123, but even with an R123 it's one bright little sucker


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## JNewell (Feb 16, 2008)

So...dumb question...the TW4 is just an E1e + KL4?


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## ttran97 (Feb 16, 2008)

JNewell said:


> So...dumb question...the TW4 is just an E1e + KL4?



Short answer: yes.
Long answer: Post #5 of this thread...here.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 16, 2008)

What ttran97's and TW did was market a cute little setup that ran on one CR123 and put out this beautiful full beam at a reduced output compared to the 2XCR123 L4. It was a success for awhile, and is still thought fondly of. Prior to this occurring, people did not think much about using the KL4 on a short one cell body.

Bill


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## Beastmaster (Feb 16, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> What ttran97's and TW did was market a cute little setup that ran on one CR123 and put out this beautiful full beam at a reduced output compared to the 2XCR123 L4. It was a success for awhile, and is still thought fondly of. Prior to this occurring, people did not think much about using the KL4 on a short one cell body.
> 
> Bill



It hasn't been until recently that TW4's have been nearly supplanted IMHO.

Ironically, I still carry a TW4 style unit as an EDC paired with a Novatac. The TW4 is so nice inside and even outside for middle distance work that it's an effective combination.

I can't think of any Lego'ed setup that's lasted so long and has had so much fervor either.

-Steve


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## JNewell (Feb 16, 2008)

ttran97 said:


> Short answer: yes.
> Long answer: Post #5 of this thread...here.


 
Yes, I read that...wanted to make sure I hadn't _misread_ something! Surefire lego can be so...rewarding!


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## milkyspit (Feb 17, 2008)

I realize I'm biased, but for what it's worth one of my favorite EDC lights in recent months has been my KL4 HA-BK head with 'Boxter' build, consisting of SSCP4 USWOH emitter and AcornDx867 driver (4-brightness with UI just like the Gotham) running on either single-cell Vital Gear FB01 HA-BK body or SureFire E1E body having E2D guarded tailcap. Works nicely for my needs. 

For fun on a PEU pineapple body, running off 1x17670...







Last night I put together what might be another contender for my own EDC: KL4 Ha-BK head with Luxeon K2-TFFC TWOF emitter, with the circuitry of the SureFire E1B featuring dual brightness, running on the E1B body with a rubber grip ring I can also slide down to allow tailstanding when I wish for hands-free use. Runtimes look to be 90 minutes on high, 28 hours low beam. It's overall a smaller and IMHO more stylish light than the stock E1B. So far, me likes! :naughty:






Gotta hand it to ttran, there's just something about this form factor that's really compelling... it's a nice combination of compact size, good looks, and overall ruggedness. After all this time and with various upgrades, the basic concept remains one of the quintessential EDC platforms out there, bar none!

:bow: :bow: :bow:


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## skalomax (Feb 17, 2008)

Ravenmaster looks like a cute little bugger.

great pictures.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 17, 2008)

Scott, does that TWOF emiter really have the F vf, like under 3 volts? If so that is so, that is awesome and will really helps the one cell lights for runtime/efficiency.

Bill


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## milkyspit (Feb 17, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Scott, does that TWOF emiter really have the F vf, like under 3 volts? If so that is so, that is awesome and will really helps the one cell lights for runtime/efficiency.
> 
> Bill




Bill, yes, I believe it does... but Lumileds plays an interesting trick here: they spec the K2-TFFC parts at 1A and have published 'new' binning tables showing higher values for Vf for the same letters... but what I think is happening, is they're simply scaling the same codes to the higher drive levels. For example, if a Vf at 1A falls in the 'F' range in these new tables, it seems the same emitter would have a Vf in the 'F' range of the old tables if tested at 350mA.

Did this help, or confuse matters even more? oo:


----------



## py702 (Feb 18, 2008)

Milky, did you get a chance to read my PM's or email regarding getting my black KL4 modded?

Paul


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## DaFABRICATA (Feb 18, 2008)

*Heres my TW4D-BLK......*


----------



## KeyGrip (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks to Nein166 I was able to complete my TW4. No pictures yet because Imageshack and Photobucket are acting up. This is one _tiny_ light. It doesn't seem that small when being held, but in comparison to other objects like a pocket knife or a dollar bill, it disappears. Now all it needs is some time with the Milk Man...  

Well how about that, *1K*.


----------



## Illum (Feb 21, 2008)

the lights not small, its huge at night...when its on and and all you see is light

I just helped someone jump their car today...they thought it was a hand held "spotlight" until I clicked it off and lit it up with another light:nana:

"oooohhhh, its _sooo _small"
for a guy...its not much of a compliment but the "spotlight" comment made my night


----------



## l2icel3all (Feb 22, 2008)

DaFABRICATA said:


> *Heres my TW4D-BLK......*



Where'd you get the CB KL4 from? I think I am gonna go broke after I find out.


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 22, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> Where'd you get the CB KL4 from? I think I am gonna go broke after I find out.




One way is to take the bezel ring off an E2D head and put it on the KL4 HA-BK head. I'm not sure if there were any KL4 shipped with that bezel ring already in place, maybe there were a few. :shrug:


----------



## KeyGrip (Feb 22, 2008)

The KL4-CB is a home coversion. Here's my first TW4:





Runs at full tilt on one AW rcr123, but for how long I don't know. That's why I have two cells ready. Milky, expect some business from me around summertime.


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## Illum (Feb 22, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> One way is to take the bezel ring off an E2D head and put it on the KL4 HA-BK head. I'm not sure if there were any KL4 shipped with that bezel ring already in place, maybe there were a few. :shrug:



I didn't know that was possible, will the lens fall out if I unscrew it?

KeyGrip, heres some current/voltage info on the L4 if you want to figure it out
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/54803
I estimate the runtime about 25 minutes to be in the ballpark 

heres what I'm thinking [ me if you find an error, typing on the fly here]
[RCR123A = 750mah, 17670 = 1600mah] a 17670 has 2.13X more capacity than the RCR123A
the L4 [well mine, your luxV Vf may differ] can run on a 17670 for about 45-50 minutes before significant dimming. 
capacity/runtime
750/r = 1600/50 r= 23.4375 minutes


----------



## KeyGrip (Feb 22, 2008)

ITN: I've seen a few L4Ds around and read a brief tutorial on how to make one. I don't know if the lens falls out or not, but it was not mentioned. I'm not that great with the flashlight math yet, but I don't doubt your equations. I think my KL4 is an overachiever and I'd be glad to get 25 minutes out of one rcr123.


----------



## ttran97 (Feb 22, 2008)

Or you guys should just send the TW4 off to milkyspit and get it modded. I get about 45 minutes regulation at around 180 lumen out of my TW4 Milky Speedster, using an AW RCR123. :nana:


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## KeyGrip (Feb 22, 2008)

Seeing as how I'm going to spend my last $7 at a clam chowder festival tomorrow, I probably won't be sending any of my light off to Milky for a while. Like I said above, wait for the Summertime.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 22, 2008)

KeyGrip said:


> ITN: I've seen a few L4Ds around and read a brief tutorial on how to make one. I don't know if the lens falls out or not, but it was not mentioned. I'm not that great with the flashlight math yet, but I don't doubt your equations. I think my KL4 is an overachiever and I'd be glad to get 25 minutes out of one rcr123.



If you can measure the current at the tailcap using an RCR123, or 17670 you can get a fairly good idea of runtime. The closer the figure is to 1 amp the better. I just checked mine and it is pulling 1.16 amps with an RCR123, and 17670 with both charged up at 4.15+. SilverFox has tested RCR123's and finds that you are getting closer to 500mAh at 1 amp or so with a really good high discharge RCR123 like the Powerizer.

Bill


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## bondr006 (Feb 22, 2008)

I am going to have one soon. I ordered the black E1E, E2D, and black KL4 from OpticsHQ today. After I get everything and get my beautiful little TW4D put together....It will be off for a trip to the Milky Labs to get either a Luxeon K2T, or SSC P4, and an Acorn driver with special 2 level firmware running it. I think I will keep the E2D body so I can use the head with either one or two cells. Man....I'm stoked. Can't wait to get my hands on it.


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## alantch (Mar 3, 2008)

This is what I have at the moment. Very bright on 1xRCR123.


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## milkyspit (Mar 3, 2008)

Alan, nice photo. I really like that fully guarded tailswitch... which light is it from?


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## ttran97 (Mar 3, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> Alan, nice photo. I really like that fully guarded tailswitch... which light is it from?



Hey milkyspit...that tailcap is from the Scoutlight package...which comes with the black KL4 head, black 2-cell body, tape switch, and this flat tailcap.


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## DaFABRICATA (Mar 3, 2008)

I think it comes with the M600 Scoutlight.:thinking:


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## JNewell (Mar 3, 2008)

It's also known as a Z68 when sold separately. (I know you know that...just wanted to get it into the thread in case someone's searching.)



ttran97 said:


> Hey milkyspit...that tailcap is from the Scoutlight package...which comes with the black KL4 head, black 2-cell body, tape switch, and this flat tailcap.


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## milkyspit (Mar 3, 2008)

JNewell said:


> It's also known as a Z68 when sold separately. (I know you know that...just wanted to get it into the thread in case someone's searching.)




Thanks!! :bow: You know, I never seem to remember those tailswitch part numbers. :thinking:


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## JNewell (Mar 3, 2008)

Shame on you, there's only like 35 or them or so... :laughing:

Actually, more seriously, there's a great thread that just got "sticky" status that has numbers, names and pics of many of the SF TCs. Thread is here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172202



milkyspit said:


> Thanks!! :bow: You know, I never seem to remember those tailswitch part numbers. :thinking:


----------



## GarageBoy (Mar 11, 2008)

I miss mine...carried it for a year before running outta cash and needed to sell it. I still have an L2 to remember how nice the floody L4 was


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## GarageBoy (Apr 2, 2008)

BTW: how much brighter is the L2 compared to the L4?


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## greenstuffs (Apr 2, 2008)

GarageBoy said:


> BTW: how much brighter is the L2 compared to the L4?



Both lights have a similar beam and have pretty much the same brightness.


----------



## bondr006 (Apr 3, 2008)

I almost forgot to post a picture of my new TW4D Boxter Custom. This light replaced my 120P which never used to leave my pocket. It's the one on the left.











Without Milky's Label


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## houtex (Apr 3, 2008)

I would love a setup like that Bond.:thumbsup:


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## tussery (Apr 4, 2008)

My TW4 isn't a TW4 at all, but a E1e with E2D Bezel and Tailcap with an E-MT F1. Not as bright but 3 hours of a good flood light on primaries make it a good EDC for me. I would post pictures but I have misplaced my camera cable.


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## blgoode (Jan 18, 2009)

Hope you guys don't mind a bump. I am still facinated by the KL4 on a single cell! How many guys just use non rechargables? Got an older 
L4 en rout next week. It may create me a TW4.


----------



## seale_navy (Jan 19, 2009)

how does milkyspit open the bezel head? i thought its glued tight..

when the anodizing wear out when a plier is used to open the head?


----------



## tx101 (Jan 19, 2009)

seale_navy said:


> how does milkyspit open the bezel head? i thought its glued tight..
> 
> when the anodizing wear out when a plier is used to open the head?


 
Apply heat to the bezel and then use strap wrenches


----------



## easilyled (Jan 19, 2009)

TW4 was a nice light but is using yesterday's technology IMO.

This is my personal view and I understand the views of those that don't see the need to upgrade and are quite happy with the luxeon emitters.

The way I see it however is that Lux Vs are much less efficient than today's emitters and I want to take advantage of that.

I have sent my KL4 to be modded with one of the new generation quad-dies ie. either Cree-MCE or SSC-P7.

This will give either 4 times the run-time for the same output or 4 times the output for the same drive level as a lux V.


----------



## ROK (Jan 19, 2009)

This is mine. :nana:


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## bondr006 (Jan 19, 2009)

Will either of those be driven off a single CR123a or RCR123? I sent mine to Milky, and he updated the emitter with a Luxeon K2T which gave me over 200 lumen of output, and it ran fine off an rcr123.



easilyled said:


> TW4 was a nice light but is using yesterday's technology IMO.
> 
> This is my personal view and I understand the views of those that don't see the need to upgrade and are quite happy with the luxeon emitters.
> 
> ...


----------



## Energie (Jan 19, 2009)

KL4 with MC-E (some additional pics)
Approx. 370 emitter lumen.
2 stage tailcap
The same runtime as the stock KL4


----------



## easilyled (Jan 19, 2009)

bondr006 said:


> Will either of those be driven off a single CR123a or RCR123? I sent mine to Milky, and he updated the emitter with a Luxeon K2T which gave me over 200 lumen of output, and it ran fine off an rcr123.



I think Energie's post and mod explains this perfectly. (Follow his link) Excellent work Energie. 
I am sure it can be driven off a RCR123* or 17670. 
I doubt that a single CR123a would reach full power though, just like it wouldn't for a TW4 based on the original luxV.

In fact if my understanding is correct, just swapping the luxV for a MCE 2S2P with good heat-sinking is all that is required to keep
the spirit of the original KL4 head the same but with a drastically improved emitter.

* I think if you want to use a single CR123-sized rechargeable it would probably be safer to use AW's high-draw IMR cells.

DZ, I have sent you a pm!


----------



## easilyled (Jan 19, 2009)

ROK said:


> This is mine. :nana:



Very nice ROK. :thumbsup: I wish I had your modding skills.


----------



## blgoode (Jan 19, 2009)

For those of us that don't have modded KL4 heads and using non rechargable batteries or a 2 stage tailcap were looking at about a 90 min runtime total or am I reading that time way off??


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jan 19, 2009)

blgoode said:


> For those of us that don't have modded KL4 heads and using non rechargable batteries or a 2 stage tailcap were looking at about a 90 min runtime total or am I reading that time way off??



I never did a runtime test using one CR123, but I did not that the output had a steady drop off after being turn on. I used bounce with a lightmeter. This will always depend on the vf of the Lux V LED. A very low vf LED may run in regulation a while before it drops into direct drive. Using a two stage switch with a resistor, you will see a slower drop off over time, you will have to use at least a 22ohm resistor to have worthwhile light running at 3 volts imput.

Bill


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## blgoode (Jan 19, 2009)

That's just it. With the 22 ohm resistor tailcap I have the light looks like my 3 lumin HDS setting. With no resistor I get a very useful 15 to 20 lumin (I am guessing) light. 

Don't know how long it would run with no resistor though.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 19, 2009)

blgoode said:


> That's just it. With the 22 ohm resistor tailcap I have the light looks like my 3 lumin HDS setting. With no resistor I get a very useful 15 to 20 lumin (I am guessing) light.
> 
> Don't know how long it would run with no resistor though.



The TW4 is a good candidate for an RCR123 and you will get more useful light using 22ohm setup. KL4 will run in regulation not using resistor.

Bill


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## blgoode (Jan 19, 2009)

Bill - I think I am getting it!! The Rechargables pushes up the power so the 22 ohm resistor has more usable light......am I close in my thinking now?

Thanks for your time


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 19, 2009)

Yes, the 22ohm resistor works off a higher voltage battery equals more light. Brighter yet, of course, with two CR123's (not two RCR123's-too much voltage).

Bill


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## DHart (Jan 21, 2009)

Cool stuff... so is the best "current" incarnation of a TW4 a KL4 head with an upgraded emitter? Is the emitter upgrade something that is fairly readily done by custom moddes? (Sure wish I knew more about and skills at doing more mods than dropping in a Malkoff lamp assembly.)

Can a new two stage SF E1L Outdoorsman be upgraded to be a TW4 with KL4 head & new emitter.... and still be two stage?


----------



## DHart (Jan 22, 2009)

Another approach?.... is the TLS Cree Q5 Single Stage LED Conversion Head for E1 coupled with an E1 body a good head/lamp choice for cobbling together a current-day TW4? Not sure if it will handle the voltage of a RCR123A though.

http://www.opticshq.com/page/Optics/...hts/FL-TLS-TX1


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## TDK-R (Jan 27, 2009)

My TW4-BK arrived today !

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL]


I love the beam of the KL4.....!

Because of the old technology I also ordered a MC-E . 
And for a longer runtime 2-stage switch.


----------



## Centropolis (Feb 5, 2009)

When I tried my KL4 head on my E1L body and put in a primary...nothing happens when I turn it on.

Charging my RCR right now to try later.


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## seale_navy (Feb 6, 2009)

TDK-R

where did u order ur 2 stage tailcap from?


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Feb 6, 2009)

Probably the Shoppe.... theledguy.com


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## seale_navy (Feb 6, 2009)

wow.. 2 stage tailcap are expensive..


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## DHart (Feb 10, 2009)

Can't resist the allure of the TW4... just received my black E1e and the black KL4 head should arrive Wednesday... not sure how long it will remain stock, though, the Milky Gossamer or High CRI Seoul upgrades are really appealing! :thinking:


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## blgoode (Feb 11, 2009)

got MY KL4 and E1 body running my 22ohm 2 stage tailcap and rechargables for a brighter LOW and brighter HIGH.


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## DHart (Feb 11, 2009)

blgoode said:


> got MY KL4 and E1 body running my 22ohm 2 stage tailcap and rechargables for a brighter LOW and brighter HIGH.



Did you mod the original tailcap? Is a similar tailcap available ready to roll?


----------



## TDK-R (Feb 11, 2009)

seale_navy said:


> TDK-R
> 
> where did u order ur 2 stage tailcap from?



http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_56_58&products_id=963



seale_navy said:


> wow.. 2 stage tailcap are expensive..



Yes they are......


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## DHart (Feb 11, 2009)

WOW... I see why you guys love the KL4 head so much! Mine came in today. I immediately put it on an E1e body, popped in a CR123 primary, and my first genuine TW4 was born.  I wasn't wowed by the output, but really love the soft floody beam. 

*"BUT WAIT, there's more..." I swapped out the primary for an RCR123 rechargeable and WOW, did that wake the head up! In my ceiling bounce test, I recorded an EV increase of 1.3 vs. the primary; the rechargeable easily more than doubling the light output of the head! *

As measured by a ceiling bounce test, the light output of the KL4 with RCR123 is equivalent to my:

Romisen RC-N3 (Cree Q5 w/RCR123)
LF3XT on max (RCR123)
SF E1B on high (CR123)

Of course the output is distributed quite widely, making the range/throw of the KL4 far short of those lights, but the output, breadth, and beauty of the beam is definitely there in spades for close range and general indoor use. Perhaps all it needs now is a two-stage tailcap to make it more versatile.

What a wonderful indoor/close range light this is! I absolutely love the soft center and wide flood of this head. Now that I've used the KL4 with the rechargeable, I'm not so motivated to drop nearly $200 more to upgrade it... I think I'll use it as is for a while to make sure it isn't just wonderful as it is. :twothumbs (And yes, it does heat up quickly!) 

Now, when I shoehorn my Malkoff P7 lamp onto the E1e with the E2C adaptor and pop in an IMR16340... that should be fun! The E2C will arrive any day!


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm a fan..


----------



## DHart (Feb 11, 2009)

DaFABRICATA said:


> I'm a fan..



Show off! 

DaFab.... I'm envious, really.... and I wish I had your modding skills and knowledge! :duh2:


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## Illum (Feb 11, 2009)

drool...

I have no idea when will AaronM receive the KL4-BK I had to mod the MC-E in...its been three weeks without a sound. I really can't blame him since he's out at sea

but to topic, not anymore...KEW now has my KL4 head so...cheers:wave:


----------



## Jackal112203 (Feb 11, 2009)

Hey DaFAB, what's that midget one at the end? more pics please...

Oh, and I mean this in the best of ways..... you suck!:thumbsup:

I need more black KL4's now


----------



## Superorb (Feb 11, 2009)

Where do you find those thick GITD o-rings from the OP?


----------



## Patriot (Feb 11, 2009)

Nice collectioin Dafab! 

I need help ID-ing the forth one from the left. I'm trying to figure out who's head mod that is and what reflector is in it.

Although I'm a TW4 fan I only got into them about a year ago. I have two of them now, one is on a VG-1 body. To lazy to post pics tonight though...lol.


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## DaFABRICATA (Feb 11, 2009)

Jackal112203,
It is a KL4 with an Arc-E-series adaptor and CR2 twisty tail. Such a sexy little beasty!



Patriot36,
As with all my lights, it was modded by me.
It is a KL4 with an MC-E and a "Boom MC-S" reflector.


----------



## easilyled (Feb 12, 2009)

DaFabricata, what is the reflector you are using for the MC-E in the KL4 head pictured?

Is it a Ledil-boom?

Does it smooth the beam out nicely?


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Feb 12, 2009)

Its the Boom MC-S from what I'm told.
I bought it in CPF Custom B/S/T from nailbender.

It makes a _HUGE_ difference over the stock KL4 reflector. Very nice, smooth beam, but still does not throw as much as a P7 with stock KL4 reflector.

I used a uni-bit to drill out the old reflector. The edges of the MC-S reflector need to be sanded down to allow proper fitment. The sanding of the reflector what the hardest part. I placed clear packaging tape over the top and bottom opening to keep debris out.


----------



## easilyled (Feb 12, 2009)

Thanks very much for all the info.

You are the master of the P7 and the MC-E mods in Aleph/E-series lights. :thumbsup:



DaFABRICATA said:


> Its the Boom MC-S from what I'm told.
> I bought it in CPF Custom B/S/T from nailbender.
> 
> It makes a _HUGE_ difference over the stock KL4 reflector. Very nice, smooth beam, but still does not throw as much as a P7 with stock KL4 reflector.
> ...


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 12, 2009)

DaFABRICATA said:


> Its the Boom MC-S from what I'm told.
> I bought it in CPF Custom B/S/T from nailbender.
> 
> It makes a _HUGE_ difference over the stock KL4 reflector. Very nice, smooth beam, but still does not throw as much as a P7 with stock KL4 reflector.
> ...




DaFab, I believe it's Ledil's "Boomerang SmoothSpot (SS)" reflector. They also have a medium and a diffused version, if memory serves.


----------



## DHart (Feb 12, 2009)

Milky and DaFab... you guys (and others) are incredible with your custom mods... it must be really great to be able to craft these cool customs and to understand all the electronics aspects that need to be worked out. Then the miniature craftwork. Sheesh. Cool stuff for sure!

I got a TnT E2C today and the best I can do is put a Malkoff P7 lamp assembly in a 6P head and screw it onto the E2C, drop an IMR16340 into the E1e and screw it all together... monkey-can-do stuff... but even this is fun. This little E1e is a quite a pocket monster now. I love it, but I'm envious of the n-th degree you guys can take mods to.


----------



## DHart (Feb 19, 2009)

My KL4 head arrived recently and now I really see why you guys like the TW4 so much.

With a 3.7v (~4.2v) rechargeable in the little E1e body, the stock TW4 sure pleases with a brilliant, very softly floody light. In a world of mostly spotty throwers, the wide soft flood is wonderfully useful. I really love this little set-up! Granted, the stock KL4 head is not such a hottie with a primary, but the rechargeable _*really*_ wakes it up! :twothumbs

TW4 - KL4 head on E1e body w/3.7v rechargeable AW 16340 cell


----------



## Beretta1526 (Mar 6, 2009)

DHart said:


> My KL4 head arrived recently and now I really see why you guys like the TW4 so much.
> 
> With a 3.7v (~4.2v) rechargeable in the little E1e body, the stock TW4 sure pleases with a brilliant, very softly floody light. In a world of mostly spotty throwers, the wide soft flood is wonderfully useful. I really love this little set-up! Granted, the stock KL4 head is not such a hottie with a primary, but the rechargeable _*really*_ wakes it up! :twothumbs
> 
> TW4 - KL4 head on E1e body w/3.7v rechargeable AW 16340 cell



That is exactly what I carried for the looooongest time until the VG-1-BK became available, then the E1B came out last year. I love the new E1B clip and tailcap, so I moved the KL4-BK over to the E1B body and put the E1B head on the VG-1-BK body.

.


----------



## DHart (Mar 7, 2009)

Beretta1526 said:


> That is exactly what I carried for the looooongest time until the VG-1-BK became available, then the E1B came out last year. I love the new E1B clip and tailcap, so I moved the KL4-BK over to the E1B body and put the E1B head on the VG-1-BK body.
> 
> .



Beretta... pictures, pictures, please! Guess I'll have to put my KL4 head on my E1B body and check that out!


----------



## Beretta1526 (Mar 7, 2009)

This is the best I could do on short notice 






.


----------



## Howecollc (Mar 7, 2009)

Illum_the_nation said:


> KeyGrip, heres some current/voltage info on the L4 if you want to figure it out
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/54803
> I estimate the runtime about 25 minutes to be in the ballpark
> 
> ...


You couldn't be any closer. I recently tested my KL4 runtime twice; each time with a different "hot off the charger" AW RCR123. I left it on for 15 minutes straight, then used 5 minute off / 5 minute on intervals. In both trials, the light kicked out of regulation between the 24 to 25 minute mark.


----------



## Illum (Mar 7, 2009)

ty 

I went to a night event yesterday and ran my TW4 yesterday night clipped to a baseball cap. It worked very well for me, but blinded everyone around me:laughing:

It was around 10 when I was in the parking lot the battery died. Oh well, field swapped in the dark and popped a new one in [always keep spares on you, I can't stress that enough], the old cell got left in the pants for 12+ hours until I rummaged through the pockets before "discarding" the pair of pants into the laundry machine. That "dead" cell happened to be a AW RCR123A  and its been sitting depleted for over half a day! Its on the charger now...but I hope I can still save it:candle:


----------



## lightknot (May 24, 2009)

TW4's live! Latest build is a Vital Gear FB1 HA body with a 2009 KL4 HA Head. :rock:


----------



## Howecollc (May 25, 2009)

By "2009 KL4 HA Head", I assume you are referring to the new 120 lumen version, right? It doesn't run at full output on 1 cell versus 2, does it?


----------



## lightknot (May 25, 2009)

Yes! Actually it does. It does not run at all on a CR123 but it does run at full power on an RCR123. I use the Battery Station rechargeable RCR123. I have a 2 cell body and the output is the same with two CR123's as with one RCR123. And yes it's the 120 lumen 2009 Surefire KL4, straight from a SF L4. :rock:


----------



## DHart (May 25, 2009)

I made a slight change to my TW4... now the KL4 head is running on a Fivemega E-18500 body with an AW protected 18500 cell. A little more body to hold onto and longer runtime (haven't timed it yet). 

In the last couple of months, however, since getting into the more sophisticated/multi-level single cell lights (LF3XT, D10, K-106, ConneXion X2, LD01) my "TW4", E1B, L1 for that matter, have not seen much use. :thinking: I guess I just take more to the latest higher-tech lights these days.


----------



## Howecollc (Jun 1, 2009)

DHart said:


> I made a slight change to my TW4... now the KL4 head is running on a Fivemega E-18500 body with an AW protected 18500 cell. A little more body to hold onto and longer runtime (haven't timed it yet).


Is your KL4 the 100 lumen or the 120 lumen version?


----------



## Blindasabat (Jun 1, 2009)

I never got my hands on an actual L4 but I have been running my version of the TW4 for around 2 years: A 1st gen L1 head (the one with slight crenellations & hex nut that some call gen2) upgraded Milky style to USWOI SSC on an E1 body with a McE2S switch in the tailcap. It's a momentary-twisty but has two levels and puts out over 150L direct drive off an RCR123. I use an 8deg optic. See my avatar for a small picture. 
I can adjust the the power & runtime by using different batteries. High (DD) runs 650~900mA on 3.7V RCR123's, ~200mA on a 3.0V RCR123, and 50~100mA on a 3V primary.

I just got another L1 with the exact same bezel upgraded to K2 TFFC TVOD by Milky but I'm not home to test it out. With a low 3-3.15V Vf K2, it seems very bright on 3.0V RCR and crazy bright on 3.7V RCR.

<EDIT> on 3.7V RCR I measured over 1200mA initally, then dropping to 900mA. Indicating over 200 emitter lumens at first, then dropping to maybe ~165L for ~120 OTF. I need to try a IMR16340, but I'm kind of wary of blowing my newest light. It is brighter than an SSC UXOH in the same bezel and same optic!


----------



## DHart (Jun 2, 2009)

Howecollc said:


> Is your KL4 the 100 lumen or the 120 lumen version?



Howecollc... I have no idea. I purchased it a couple of months ago, but how do I tell whether it's the 100 lumen or 120 lumen version?


----------



## Howecollc (Jun 2, 2009)

Serial numbers on the head beginning with an "A" indicate 100 lumen models; those with serial numbers beginning with a "B" are the newer 120 lumen models.


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## N467RX (Jun 16, 2009)

Is it still possible to buy black E1e's and KL4s?


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## DHart (Jun 17, 2009)

Howecollc said:


> Serial numbers on the head beginning with an "A" indicate 100 lumen models; those with serial numbers beginning with a "B" are the newer 120 lumen models.



Mine must be the 100 lumen as it has the "A" prefix.

Ceiling bounce output measurement gives 4.1 EV for the KL4 with RCR123 Li-Ion vs. 4.5 EV for my E1B on a CR123... with a difference of 1.0 EV = a doubling or halving of measured output.



N467RX said:


> Is it still possible to buy black E1e's and KL4s?




Yep.


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## GarageBoy (Jun 17, 2009)

If it's not a KL4 Lux V, it's not a TW4, sorry


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## N467RX (Jun 17, 2009)

So which KL4 is the one that fits the E1E black the best? the black or the HA black?


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## 1wrx7 (Jun 17, 2009)

N467RX said:


> So which KL4 is the one that fits the E1E black the best? the black or the HA black?


 

I'm pretty sure all black KL4's are HA. At least all of the one's I've owned have been. Black HA can come in several different shades though.


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## smokinbasser (Jun 17, 2009)

My TW4 is in daily use after all this time I have an arc LS at home on the headboard but while visiting its the TW4 ok I do have two of the Arc AAAs on a cord too for night strolls


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## N467RX (Jun 17, 2009)

1wrx7 said:


> I'm pretty sure all black KL4's are HA. At least all of the one's I've owned have been. Black HA can come in several different shades though.



Hmm ok. Now I'll start a quest to find one


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## brucejiang (Apr 17, 2012)

my favourite lights

small but powerful

a wall of light

I had the LED replaced by XML T6 1A & T4 7B and the drive remains, the advantage is the compatibility of single CR123A


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## Beretta1526 (Apr 17, 2012)

Still rocking mine (horrible phone pic).

*EDC on left, KL1 with diffuser for low-light, and my favorite McLux PR build*:





I need to send that KL1 in though, as it has a short in it or something (intermittent operation).

.


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## F250XLT (Apr 17, 2012)

Yup, still a sweet looking set-up.


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## Illum (Apr 17, 2012)

While most of my KL4s have since gotten modded into MC-Es, my cream lux-V is still being used in the TW4 configuration as a battery drainer.


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## blackz28 (Jul 22, 2012)

Just found this thread, me like some of you haven't been here for a few years. After reading this, I dug out my TW4. I also found a lot of my tw4 friend's from those days too. I thought they needed a family reunion pic, so here it is


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## smokinbasser (Jul 23, 2012)

I still have my TW4 and play lego lights once in a while. The folks at the late tactical wearhouse made sure each L4 head would work with just one 123 cell before shipping them out to flashaholics. I really hope the extra goodies he sent out wasn't the straw that broke the camels back. Even though there are many more lights with much higher lumens. I wear the surefire Tee shirts quite a bit and the tactical (winkwink) pens are in my franklin planner and one on my dopp kit for my many stays in the local VA hospital.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 9, 2012)

It looks like a nice light. I've seen the KL4 heads for sale various places, and considered getting one, because the idea of a small Surefire LED light that *doesn't* use a TIR optic is kind of a novelty to me...I didn't realize they're ten years old now. That's quite a bit older than I would've guessed. Are they regulated or do they rely on the flat voltage curve of CR123 primaries to maintain constant output?


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## BenChiew (Feb 26, 2013)

Is there a way to tell if the KL4 is a TW4 by just looking at it?


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## Illum (Feb 27, 2013)

yep, if the serial has an A prefix and uses a Luxeon V LED, its a TW4 compatible KL4


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## BenChiew (Feb 27, 2013)

Illum said:


> yep, if the serial has an A prefix and uses a Luxeon V LED, its a TW4 compatible KL4



Thanks. It seems that all the LuxV heads I have seen thus far are A prefix. 
Is the TW4 KL4 a minority?


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## Illum (Feb 27, 2013)

It may be eventually. Though the new SSC L4s haven't won high marks here, for one thing they broke the 17670 compatibility and for another the output/runtime is behind several other lights that costs less then the price of the L4.


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## BenChiew (Feb 28, 2013)

Do you mean that the last SSC P4 L4 can't be powered with a single 17670?
I sold the SSCP4 without testing if it will take a single rechargeable. 
I am glad I still have the LuxV. That I know will power on. But hate the fact that it ran really hot.


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## angelofwar (Feb 28, 2013)

Benchiew said:


> Do you mean that the last SSC P4 L4 can't be powered with a single 17670?
> I sold the SSCP4 without testing if it will take a single rechargeable.
> I am glad I still have the LuxV. That I know will power on. But hate the fact that it ran really hot.



If you think the Lux-V KL4 was hot on one cell, you should see how hot it got on two...I left it on for awhile when we had a power outage in Iraq...nearly burnt my hand when I when to grab it to turn it off.


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## BenChiew (Feb 28, 2013)

angelofwar said:


> If you think the Lux-V KL4 was hot on one cell, you should see how hot it got on two...I left it on for awhile when we had a power outage in Iraq...nearly burnt my hand when I when to grab it to turn it off.



AoW. 
Thanks for the heads up. This is one light that can't be handed over to a newbie.


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## easilyled (Feb 28, 2013)

I think one of the best upgrades to a KL4 can be seen here performed by darkzero.

The MC-E can be wired 2S2P like the original luxeon Vs.
In conjunction with the Boom reflector, the beam is faithful to the original lux-V L4 except 4-5 times brighter.


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## Beamhead (Feb 28, 2013)

Just to be clear the original "TW4" was a kl4 that would run cool and extremely long on a single primary, then RCR123 came along and were capable of powering most if not all kl4 heads with shorter run times, higher heat and output, becoming the new TW4.

Here is a thread with examples of the run times of some original.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?84460-KL4-amp-E1E&p=987076&viewfull=1#post987076


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## Illum (Mar 2, 2013)

Benchiew said:


> Do you mean that the last SSC P4 L4 can't be powered with a single 17670?
> I sold the SSCP4 without testing if it will take a single rechargeable.



Chao did a runtime test on it, it will operate on an 17670 but at 80% brightness, diminishing thereafter with a typical linear curve, very little regulation. The fact that an SSC P4 was used would mean surefire went from a boost to a buck, and 4.2V was just under the dropout threshold so it essentially operates direct drive.
Link: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?228070-Surefire-L4-120-lumens-improved-version
Runtime: http://i48.tinypic.com/sq400h.jpg

I have actually operated a SSC L4 on 17670s, output was noticeably dimmer than on cr123as, don't know about 20% reduction, but it didn't seem very appealing. 

Cartman, I'd say the original TW4s worked well as a "hurricane light" as it could be used on E1es to conserve battery, it wasn't long before people wanted brighter outputs in the same small package.


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## Justin Case (Mar 2, 2013)

Are you sure that some of the original LuxV KL4s used a buck-boost driver? I thought they were all boost. The small sample of SureFire SSC P4 lights I've tested all used LEDs with a fairly high Vf. If you swap out the Seoul LED for something like an XM-L2, I bet you'd be able to run in full regulation for a decent portion of a 1x17670's run time.


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## Illum (Mar 3, 2013)

Justin Case said:


> Are you sure that some of the original LuxV KL4s used a buck-boost driver? I thought they were all boost. The small sample of SureFire SSC P4 lights I've tested all used LEDs with a fairly high Vf. If you swap out the Seoul LED for something like an XM-L2, I bet you'd be able to run in full regulation for a decent portion of a 1x17670's run time.



Edited, whoops, no its boost only. The original KL4s uses the LT1618 CC/CV step-up chip.
Good catch, :thanks:


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