# Moonlight .2 lumens...



## TwinBlade (Sep 8, 2010)

I see a few flashlight companies are incorporating this into their flashlight output levels. Having never experienced such a low output, I was wondering if you folks could give me some opinions on it. 

Can you read a map with it? Will it light up the ground in front of your feet? Do you have to squint so bad when you use it that you risk going blind?:nana:

TIA


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## Tally-ho (Sep 8, 2010)

Related thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3516464#post3516464


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## Mr. Tone (Sep 8, 2010)

You can read a lot of good discussion about it in a previous thread that proved many of us find it very valuable. I personally use it every night at home. When your eyes are night adapted it can be enough to see things in a small room with a ceiling bounce. I absolutely love moonlight mode on my Quarks!:thumbsup:


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## Th232 (Sep 8, 2010)

+1.

With dark adapted eyes I can use the moonlight mode on my Quark to see around the whole room at night without disturbing anyone. Without dark adapted eyes, I can only see what the torch is pointing at, but it's still enough for me to not trip over anything or walk into walls.


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## etc (Sep 8, 2010)

OT, but you should always write fractional numbers as 0.xx, such as 0.2. 

Reason is, if you say print the page, then photocopy it, the "dot" might drop out, or someone who is not paying attention will miss the "dot" and think it's an order of magnitude bigger, or 2 instead of 0.2. It's just harder to read.

This can be particularly dangerous in medicine, where someone can miss the dot and instead of 0.5 grams of something, give you 5 grams of medicine. 

Back to discussion, the min I like is about 5-10 lumens.


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## calipsoii (Sep 8, 2010)

You'd be surprised how little light your eyes need to see once they're night-adjusted.


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## AnAppleSnail (Sep 8, 2010)

When I'm walking around in dark - with no other light sources to fight - 0.2 lumens is sometimes far too bright, and I'll wind up covering most of the Quark's output with my hand.

As I recall, 'lux' is "1 lumen per square meter." If you shine my Quark on the ground a little ahead of me, its hot-spot will be a bit dimmer than most night's full moonlight (.25 lux, give or take - that's the number Petzl chose).


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## dealgrabber2002 (Sep 8, 2010)

etc said:


> Back to discussion, the min I like is about 5-10 lumens.


 
Is that OTF or emitter?

I started a thread awhile back regarding 0.2 lumen. If you are interest in reading it. Here it is:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238505


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## IlluminatedOne (Sep 8, 2010)

I would say you could read a map with moonlight mode if it was really dark. 

I also regularly use my quark 2AA out in the woods which is completely dark, i find the moonlight (OTF 0.2 Lumens) mode is enough to navigate around pretty well in the woods or around the house. 
Sometimes i would kick it up one to low (OTF 4 lumens) just to check a little way ahead out in the woods. 
But when your eyes are adapted to the dark you would be suprised at how well such a low output works. 

One thing i would like is a diffuser for the light to make the beam less intense and more even as sometimes even on moonlight or low the hotspot can blind you slightly if you were to bring the light up closer to your eyes like using it to check your backpack etc. 

But Moonlight mode is a great feature which i use more often than the higher modes in general use.


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## mrartillery (Sep 8, 2010)

TwinBlade said:


> Can you read a map with it? Will it light up the ground in front of your feet?
> TIA



Think of a cell phone screen in a pitch black room, similar to that.


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## Tally-ho (Sep 8, 2010)

mrartillery said:


> Think of a cell phone screen in a pitch black room, similar to that.


Why bother to carry a flashlight ? :devil:


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## John_Galt (Sep 8, 2010)

I find that my Ra clicky's 0.07lumens is too bright at times. And I live in a well lit urban environment.

I was camping for a solid week about a month and a half ago, and it was my most often used output. Plenty for night time trail navigation, if going at a slow pace.


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## PCC (Sep 8, 2010)

Tally-ho said:


> Why bother to carry a flashlight ? :devil:


Because cell phone screens have a nasty habit of turning off after about 15-30 seconds to conserve the battery life.

I have a few lights that are in the 1 lumen range and they're too bright when I need them every day. I work a late shift and get home around midnight and I refuse to turn on any lights inside of the house so I don't wake anyone up. I've found that 3 lumens is way too much in this situation. 1 lumen is more than enough to navigate around a dark house and not trip on anything that the kids have left on the floor. Less than 1 lumen when I enter my bedroom and don't want to disturb my wife. I need to get a Quark and take advantage of the 0.2 lumen output.


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## Tally-ho (Sep 8, 2010)

PCC said:


> Because cell phone screens have a nasty habit of turning off after about 15-30 seconds to conserve the battery life.



I was kidding.
I like when an idea or something appears finally as the contrary than it is supposed to be, so it is really funny to realize that all those "poor guys using dim cellphone screenlight" are preserving their night adapted vision by using a concept more often than all those flashaholics without any moonlight-mode flashlight.


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## TwinBlade (Sep 8, 2010)

Well I appreciate all the input here and other posted related links. I am honestly surprised to hear just how many of you find it useful.

I use a flashlight every night when I go to bed for many of the same reasons. I go to bed a couple hours later than my wife and do not want to wake her up with a bright beam. I have found the 1.6 lumen output on my iTP A3 to be just about perfect, but I always aim it at something on my dresser to diffuse the output just a little.

I would also be VERY interested in say a 0.2, 2, 10 lm flashlight, or some dedicated low light derivative there of.


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## mrartillery (Sep 8, 2010)

PCC said:


> Because cell phone screens have a nasty habit of turning off after about 15-30 seconds to conserve the battery life.



True. The flashlight app on my Blackberry allows you to use the phones LED that it uses for the cameras flash and doesn't cut off until you cut it off. It is also fairly bright for night adjusted eyes, consider it yet another back up light.


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## AnAppleSnail (Sep 8, 2010)

TwinBlade said:


> I would also be VERY interested in say a 0.2, 2, 10 lm flashlight, or some dedicated low light derivative there of.



After the "Quark AA moonlight" thread we were poking 4sevens about a low-modes-only light...alas, it won't likely get the market share necessary to start production...


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## RepProdigious (Sep 8, 2010)

Moonlight is the most used mode on my Quark..... Like everybody says its pretty darned bright if you're eyes are properly adjusted.

I tailstand it besides my bed (ceiling bounce) and after a minute or so i am able to see everything in the room without waking up my sleeping beauty..... And the best thing is that i never have to replace the battery


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## scout24 (Sep 8, 2010)

The lowest of low is the most used level on my Titan and T1A's, probably the best lights for this type of use. Dial up or down an additional smidgen as needed without adding or taking away a "level". WAY lower than my Quarks on moonlight or any of my Ra's or Novatacs. If you want a dedicated in-the-dark-without-waking-anyone light, and like the ability to have 70-80 lumens just a twist away, these are it. The Photon Freedom coincell lights also ramp up and down at these super low levels, but the PWM makes even me crazy, and they are not bright enough on top for a dedicated EDC, in my opinion. If I happen to leave the house and "only" have a T1A or my Titan, I'm good to go.


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## Harry999 (Sep 8, 2010)

Having seen the Quark AA 0.2 lumen runtime test I am so tempted to pick one up at the end of the month. I use the 0.3 lumen and less levels on my HDS lights the most around the house. Having the same level on a single AA light as well would be a real plus.

I find that inside 0.2 lumen or less can be all you need for navigation and basic tasks. I love having the ability to access this level. I will be interested to see what 4Sevens will provide for those flashaholics who have been asking for an Ultra low level light...


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## Pericles (Sep 8, 2010)

_"I would also be VERY interested in say a 0.2, 2, 10 lm flashlight, or some dedicated low light derivative there of."_

Twin,
If you are serious about those levels, you should look into a light from HDS Systems (RA lights). My Twisty can be programmed with three levels ranging from 0.07 to 100 lm. My EDC Clicky Executive can be programmed with four levels from 0.08 to 120 lm. 
The Executive is available at $99.00. There are brighter versions available, but as you are interested in the lower levels, you probably won't want to pay extra for a higher high.
The Twisty is now only available as a Custom model for $144.00. The older miodel sold for $99.00. I don't know if a lower priced Twisty is in the works.
These lights are very rugged and highly regarded by most here on CPF.


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## Harry999 (Sep 8, 2010)

The HDS lights are good for low lumens. In fact I'm running a runtime test on a 140 Twisty at 0.3 lumens at the moment. It is the best IMHO for lithium primaries and rechargeable.

I have today though dropped the hammer on a Quark AA. Reading what I wrote above I could not wait until the end of the month. :shakehead

The HDS lights will have a 2xAA tube available shortly which I am really anticipating. However, I want access to moonlight lows in a single AA format as well. The Quark seems to supply that and I have seen many positive reviews.


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## Dude Dudeson (Sep 8, 2010)

TwinBlade said:


> I see a few flashlight companies are incorporating this into their flashlight output levels. Having never experienced such a low output, I was wondering if you folks could give me some opinions on it.
> 
> Can you read a map with it? Will it light up the ground in front of your feet? Do you have to squint so bad when you use it that you risk going blind?:nana:
> 
> TIA


 
Depends on the beam profile.

I used to really scratch my head wondering how 3 lumens could possibly be too much for anyone in any circumstance other than maybe military (not wanting to give your position away).

But then I realized MY 3 lumens is in a somewhat floody package.

Put that same 3 lumens in a much tighter beam, then yes, I could see where with fully night adapted eyes shining it on to, say, a piece of paper right in front of you would be way more than you'd want or need.


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## KiwiMark (Sep 8, 2010)

IlluminatedOne said:


> One thing i would like is a diffuser for the light to make the beam less intense and more even as sometimes even on moonlight or low the hotspot can blind you slightly if you were to bring the light up closer to your eyes like using it to check your backpack etc.



I have one of those. It works pretty well too and fits nicely on my Quark 1 x AA. It turns the beam into pure flood with no hotspot at all.

I think it is this one:
http://goinggear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_23&products_id=1917
also available here: http://www.batteryjunction.com/olight-t-series-acc.html for the same price.
It came with my Olight Ti Infinitum, but it fits several of my other lights really well - including my Quark

I also have the red & the green filters, they all fit the same.

Before I got the quark my Jet-IIIM was the only light I had with a low enough minimum output. When you are camping and need to pee at 3am on a pitch black night you really don't want or need much light at all, just enough to let you avoid tripping over guy ropes & branches while heading to a suitable tree. Bright light can wake others & hurt your eyes as well as destroying your night vision.


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## TwinBlade (Sep 8, 2010)

Pericles said:


> _"I would also be VERY interested in say a 0.2, 2, 10 lm flashlight, or some dedicated low light derivative there of."_
> 
> Twin,
> If you are serious about those levels, you should look into a light from HDS Systems (RA lights). My Twisty can be programmed with three levels ranging from 0.07 to 100 lm. My EDC Clicky Executive can be programmed with four levels from 0.08 to 120 lm.
> ...



At your suggestion, I looked at them. I don't know if it is the interface on their website or the way everything was outlined, but it seemed to me that the flashlight is going to come with an 82 page manual in size 9 print. The light itself looks great. I am really not diggin' the over-complicated jive that accompanies it though. 

Keep in mind, I just cracked my second beer. I still have all my wits yet...


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## Flint&Steel (Sep 8, 2010)

I'm going to have to disagree with most here...moonlight on my Quark is too low. OTOH, low (the next level above moonlight), is perfect IMHO and my most-used level. YMMV, as always. lovecpf


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## flatline (Sep 8, 2010)

TwinBlade said:


> I would also be VERY interested in say a 0.2, 2, 10 lm flashlight, or some dedicated low light derivative there of.



Just because a light can be brighter doesn't mean you need to use the brighter modes.

With that in mind, you have lots of options:

Quark regulars start at moon and get brighter as you cycle. They have such tight hotspots that I almost never go higher than Low mode when I'm inside. Outside, I might use medium to see down the driveway. I only use High or Max when I'm with other people who have lights that have already ruined my night vision.

Programmable lights like the Ra Clicky, LF5XT, and JetBeam can be programmed to only have low levels. My LF5XT is set for 0%, 10% and 30% output, but even the 0% is way too bright for dark adapted eyes inside. The Ra's default low is a little brighter than the Quark's moon mode, but the floodier beam makes it seem like it's about the same brightness (it has 2 lower levels, but I haven't played with programming it yet). Both are excellent for navigating indoors. I don't have a JetBeam, but I've heard good things about their low levels.

The light I use the most for low is the Zebralight H501w. It's lowest output is around 2 lumens, but with no hotspot, it's actually friendlier to my dark adapted eyes than the Quark or Ra. The new H501s have an even lower mode available to them (0.3 lumens) which will seem much dimmer than the Quark since it has no hot spot.

Anyways, this sampling of excellent lights already out there that do what you want explains why no manufacturer would ever make a dedicated low level light. Current lights can already do what you want but have broader appeal since they aren't limited to low levels.

--flatline


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## the.Mtn.Man (Sep 9, 2010)

TwinBlade said:


> I see a few flashlight companies are incorporating this into their flashlight output levels. Having never experienced such a low output, I was wondering if you folks could give me some opinions on it.
> 
> Can you read a map with it? Will it light up the ground in front of your feet? Do you have to squint so bad when you use it that you risk going blind?:nana:


0.2 lumen is surprising bright if your eyes are adjusted to the dark. In fact, it can almost seem too bright under the right circumstances. I have 0.07 lumen programmed into my Ra Clicky as the lowest setting which I find just about right for prowling about the house after dark.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Sep 9, 2010)

TwinBlade said:


> I would also be VERY interested in say a 0.2, 2, 10 lm flashlight, or some dedicated low light derivative there of.


Get an Ra Clicky and you can program those modes yourself.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Sep 9, 2010)

TwinBlade said:


> At your suggestion, I looked at them. I don't know if it is the interface on their website or the way everything was outlined, but it seemed to me that the flashlight is going to come with an 82 page manual in size 9 print. The light itself looks great. I am really not diggin' the over-complicated jive that accompanies it though.
> 
> Keep in mind, I just cracked my second beer. I still have all my wits yet...


It sounds more complicated than it really is. Just follow the directions and you'll have your light programmed in no time.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 9, 2010)

flatline said:


> The Ra's default low is a little brighter than the Quark's moon mode, but the floodier beam makes it seem like it's about the same brightness ...



Good point. Night vision is mostly adversely affected by too much lux (brightness), and with two lights having the same lumen output, one may have lower lux than the other. The floodier beam of the Ra, compared here to the Quark is a good example of that. Another light that has excellent flood characteristics and low lux, is the SF T1A.

Bill


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## Pericles (Sep 9, 2010)

Another light no one has mentioned is the Photon Proton Pro. This is a 1xAA light with infinite ramping from high to low. I don't know the measured output, but it seems the low is quite low. If the low is not low enough, there is also a ramping red emitter (from low to high) which can be set so dim you could stare at it all day (night?) wondering if it is actually on.
I'm very fond of mine.
It is on sale at BatteryJunction for $39.95.


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