# Zebralight H600Fc Mk IV - First Impressions



## likethevegetable

Woohoo, it’s finally here, about 6 weeks after the expected shipping date. This is the most anticipated flashlight I’ve purchased to date. Ordered on Nov. 13 and shipped to Canada. 

Here are my initial impressions:

In comparison to my H53c, the anodizing does not look as dark or thick, in my opinion the H53c looks a bit more slick, but the H600Fc still looks great. The switches feel identical and give a good click. It’s amazing how much more of a punch this things packs. I was pleasantly surprised to find a pocket clip in the box, but it looks likes a complete afterthought and consolation gift.. I will likely be using a different one so that it carries deeper.

Size comparison:









Beam pattern is great, I’m looking forward to the more headlamp-friendly 90° flood. Now I kind of wish my H53c was frosted, but I will do some throw comparisons at similar lumens to get a better feel.

And what you’ve all been dying to know; the tint looks very nice, there is only a very slight hint of yellow to my eyes, but much less than the (almost muddy, but still nice in use) H53c’s colour. I like that the frosted lense reduces tint shift from the hotspot to the corona. 





The maximum lumen setting of 1568 lm is blazing hot and comparable to the max on my BL6 A6 3D. The minimum setting of 0.08 lm is a fair bit brighter than my H53c at 0.01 lm.

Prommagable UI works as described, although I haven’t tested the PID temperature settings yet. Will update if anything out of the ordinary is discovered. Here is what I set it to. The mode spacing is perfect for me:





Bonus pic of my new EDC pair:





Cheers!


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## Tachead

Nice, thanks for the review👍. 

Unfortunately the coloured font you chose makes it very hard to read.


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## likethevegetable

It's black on my computer and phone..? Hmm


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## NPL

Thanks for the write up! 

Glad to see the tint is nicer than h53c. From your photo, looks similar to a 219c 4000k tint which would be awesome! 

How is the brightness of the headlamp on max regulated and Max PID? How does it compare to the throw of h53c? 

Thanks


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## eh4

Spyderco and Zebralight make a great pair.


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## Tachead

likethevegetable said:


> It's black on my computer and phone..? Hmm


It's black on my phone too but, night mode on Tapatalk is dark grey so it blends in. Not to mention, all coloured fonts are harder to read imo and I don't really understand why people feel the need to use them. That's just my opinion though and YMMV of course.


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## Tachead

eh4 said:


> Spyderco and Zebralight make a great pair.


They do indeed...

https://i.imgur.com/7jVX3tu.jpg


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## likethevegetable

Some additional notes on the tint and beam: it has been a joy to use so far around the house. The hot spot is still visible, but it blends very nicely into the corona and spill, and the 90° spill is preferable to my H53c for headlamp use. The H600Fc’s tint definitely still looks warm, but not as warm as my H53c which looks almost yellow at the hotspot and corona side-by-side. In terms of colour rendering, my H53c makes brighter colours like red and blue appear more saturated and vivid, but suffers from making lighter colours like yellow, white, and gray too yellow, whereas the H600Fc seems more balanced. The real CRI test will be outside when I look at trees and roots. I do wish the lowest level was 0.01 lm like my H53c. The brightest level is so friggen bright though – when I was programming it I thought I was at the max setting when I was only at 980 lumens, the light got warm instantly.



I noticed a few imperfections on the anodizing. Near the cooling fins on one side only, there are a few lighter coloured areas. On the tailcap there are a few lines that look silvery. There is also some light bleeding through the button on the higher settings. Not concerned about either of these things but I thought I should mention them. The clip isn’t as bad as I initially made it out to be, I like the low profile of it, but I just wish they made it deep carry.



Overall though, I keep getting more and more excited about this light.



Tachead: I changed the font colour – I believe when I initially CTRL+C,V’d my post from MS Word to CPF, the editor tried to retain the font colour as black, which would then supersede any theme’s font colour. I pasted the post as plain text, and it should be white if your theme has a black background.



NPL: I will be doing some throw and brightness comparisons with my H53c and BLF A6.. it wasn’t too dark last night and I went to bed early (out of my girlfriend’s request, she knows I would have been up all night with my new friend!)



I am planning on comparing the H600Fc’s 296, 63, 25.7 with the H53c’s 285, 56, 26 levels for throw when I have some time. It’s very cold out where I live so I believe that will affect the values. I will also compare the frosted lens with a DC-fix and a latex glove diffuser on the H53c and provide some qualitative assessments.


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## NPL

Thanks for the additional input. I wonder if the xhp50.2 on the FC has a lower R9 value than that of the xp-l2 on the 53c. Might explain why reds are less vivid. Looking forward to the beamshot and outdoor impressions. Wonder how fast it steps down when on max...


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## Tachead

likethevegetable said:


> Some additional notes on the tint and beam: it has been a joy to use so far around the house. The hot spot is still visible, but it blends very nicely into the corona and spill, and the 90° spill is preferable to my H53c for headlamp use. The H600Fc’s tint definitely still looks warm, but not as warm as my H53c which looks almost yellow at the hotspot and corona side-by-side. In terms of colour rendering, my H53c makes brighter colours like red and blue appear more saturated and vivid, but suffers from making lighter colours like yellow, white, and gray too yellow, whereas the H600Fc seems more balanced. The real CRI test will be outside when I look at trees and roots. I do wish the lowest level was 0.01 lm like my H53c. The brightest level is so friggen bright though – when I was programming it I thought I was at the max setting when I was only at 980 lumens, the light got warm instantly.
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed a few imperfections on the anodizing. Near the cooling fins on one side only, there are a few lighter coloured areas. On the tailcap there are a few lines that look silvery. There is also some light bleeding through the button on the higher settings. Not concerned about either of these things but I thought I should mention them. The clip isn’t as bad as I initially made it out to be, I like the low profile of it, but I just wish they made it deep carry.
> 
> 
> 
> Overall though, I keep getting more and more excited about this light.
> 
> 
> 
> Tachead: I changed the font colour – I believe when I initially CTRL+C,V’d my post from MS Word to CPF, the editor tried to retain the font colour as black, which would then supersede any theme’s font colour. I pasted the post as plain text, and it should be white if your theme has a black background.
> 
> 
> 
> NPL: I will be doing some throw and brightness comparisons with my H53c and BLF A6.. it wasn’t too dark last night and I went to bed early (out of my girlfriend’s request, she knows I would have been up all night with my new friend!)
> 
> 
> 
> I am planning on comparing the H600Fc’s 296, 63, 25.7 with the H53c’s 285, 56, 26 levels for throw when I have some time. It’s very cold out where I live so I believe that will affect the values. I will also compare the frosted lens with a DC-fix and a latex glove diffuser on the H53c and provide some qualitative assessments.


Thanks for the additional info likethevegetable and the font looks normal now(you didn't have to change it just for me, I just wanted to point out that it might be hard to read on some people's systems). But, thanks man👍. I look forward to your further reports. I love my H600Fc MKIII.


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## lampeDépêche

Thanks for the review! I especially like the mode-spacing graph. I had not thought of it visually in those terms, but that's exactly what I want, too--roughly 4x increments between each level, to give something like double the perceived output.

I am still wedded to my Mk II H600w. Love that light. But its top H1 is only around 1k lumens. Now I'm trying to figure out whether the MkIVs are enough of a jump to justify purchasing a new one. Looking tempting!


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## markr6

lampeDépêche said:


> I am still wedded to my Mk II H600w. Love that light. But its top H1 is only around 1k lumens. Now I'm trying to figure out whether the MkIVs are enough of a jump to justify purchasing a new one. Looking tempting!



Same here. I bought mine in December 2013 and I think it's my most used light. As crazy as I am about upgrading to the latest and greatest, I can't seem to "upgrade" this one. The 4400K is great for backpacking at night; warm and comfortable without being too yellow. I rarely use the two highest modes anyway (on any headlamp format), so I guess I have no reason to upgrade.


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## autoxer

Thank you for your review!! I'm very interested, as I am thinking of buying these exact same two lights (H53c + H600Fc).

I will be looking forward to your throw and brightness comparisons.

I would also be very interested to know (when you've had some time with everything) if you still prefer the H53c, or if you think you'd prefer the H53Fc for all-around use? Depending on your observations, it could definitely influence my decision on which one to buy.


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## NPL

autoxer said:


> Thank you for your review!! I'm very interested, as I am thinking of buying these exact same two lights (H53c + H600Fc).
> 
> I will be looking forward to your throw and brightness comparisons.
> 
> I would also be very interested to know (when you've had some time with everything) if you still prefer the H53c, or if you think you'd prefer the H53Fc for all-around use? Depending on your observations, it could definitely influence my decision on which one to buy.


I would without hesitation get an h53c over Fc. Simply put DC fix on the 53c and it's almost identical to fc. As it is only a AA light with 285 lumens, it's nice to have the option for extra throw. If you get an FC, you don't have the option of making it throw more.


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## markr6

NPL said:


> I would without hesitation get an h53c over Fc. Simply put DC fix on the 53c and it's almost identical to fc. As it is only a AA light with 285 lumens, it's nice to have the option for extra throw. If you get an FC, you don't have the option of making it throw more.



That's a good point. Every ZL headlamp I ever purchased was a "standard" beam. I buy them and immediately put d-c-fix over the lens. The H600w I just mentioned is over 4 years old and that film looks as good as day one. But if I did need to take it off, it wouldn't leave a bunch of sticky gunk either. It's basically an "F" version but with just a little more spot. Perfect.


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## autoxer

NPL said:


> I would without hesitation get an h53c over Fc. Simply put DC fix on the 53c and it's almost identical to fc. As it is only a AA light with 285 lumens, it's nice to have the option for extra throw. If you get an FC, you don't have the option of making it throw more.





markr6 said:


> That's a good point. Every ZL headlamp I ever purchased was a "standard" beam. I buy them and immediately put d-c-fix over the lens. The H600w I just mentioned is over 4 years old and that film looks as good as day one. But if I did need to take it off, it wouldn't leave a bunch of sticky gunk either. It's basically an "F" version but with just a little more spot. Perfect.



Thanks both of you for your input! Those are some very good points and I appreciate them a lot. I like the idea of having the versatility with the setup that you describe.

I think I will stick with the current plan and get the H53c and use the DC fix.


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## likethevegetable

I used DC-fix on my H53c for some time but was actually not a big fan of it, I found that it compromised the spill intensity too much and didn’t extend the breadth of the beam. When I want a super diffuse beam I’ll put a latex finger cot over the head and it works well - it is awesome for reading a book. What I really like about the F vs. spill/spot vs. spill/spot with DC-fix is that the F model has a very smooth intensity transition from the center to edges, and the extra 10° in width is very nice.

If I could only get one to use mainly as a headlamp, I would get frosted. If I were to get one to use mainly as a handheld, I’d get spot/spill. Having both options is nice though, and the spot/spill is very useful as a headlamp when doing precision up/close work where you only need to focus on one thing. I’m glad I have the spot/spill for the AA as the extra throw is nice considering it’s max output is way lower, and it will probably see more pocket time simply due to its size. I’m glad I have the frosted for the 18650 since I will be using it as a backpacking headlamp. (I’m probably subconsciously trying to convince myself that I made the right choice)

Someone on these forums once said that the frosted model is better for looking FOR something, while the spot/spill is better for looking AT something. I fully agree.


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## bentas

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?318832-Spark-ST5-190NW-Headlamp-(XM-L-1xAA-14500)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-and-more!



autoxer said:


> Thanks both of you for your input! Those are some very good points and I appreciate them a lot. I like the idea of having the versatility with the setup that you describe.
> 
> I think I will stick with the current plan and get the H53c and use the DC fix.




Hi there, I joined CPF many years ago, but this is the first time for me to post I think? I can usually find all I need by reading through the forums... but this time I'm not sure.

Also not sure if I should have started a new thread or not? 

Anyway... just recently my Spark ST5 190NW (see link above) was stolen! Ahh! I was very happy with this headlamp and despite it being 7 years old I felt no need to upgrade. Amazingly you can still buy them but no doubt technology has advanced enormously since then! (it is currently available with XM-L2)


Seems the Zebralight H53c with a DC fix (what does that mean?) would be the modern equivalent but there may be even newer tech available now?

Features I liked about the Spark:

1. could use any battery type - though I mostly used 14500 (also reverse polarity protected)
2. Neutral white tint - for more natural colours hiking
3. memory mode
4. very bright - the 190 was with NiMH - way more powerful with 14500 up to 300Lm more
5. double click to super mode from any mode and back again
6 tough and water resistant IPX 8.
7. T body design... I actually like this, easy to access button and puts light source out so it doesn't shine on my nose or beanie as much.
8. Floody with wide hotspot done with frosted lens, easily unscrewable for a spotlight. 

Thanks all, really looking forward to your replies. Ben


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## likethevegetable

Hey bentas,

Zebralights are top notch, first-rate engineering and manufacturing.

DC-fix is used on windows in homes for privacy, but it makes a good diffuser: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B007B9PNOQ/ 

1. The new ZLs DO NOT support 14500
2. H53c or H53w would be a fine choice
3. No memory, but ZL UI is so good you'll be glad there isn't memory mode
4. H53c max is 285 lm, H53w is 330 lm
5. Unfortunately no instant access to turbo
6. They're built to last and waterpood
8. If you want the option of a more focused beam, avoid the frosted models. BUT the frosted can still throw decently. You can achieve a more diffuse beam with the DC-fix, but once you remove it it's kinda done and you need a new one to put on. (like a screen protector)


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## NPL

bentas said:


> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?318832-Spark-ST5-190NW-Headlamp-(XM-L-1xAA-14500)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-and-more!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi there, I joined CPF many years ago, but this is the first time for me to post I think? I can usually find all I need by reading through the forums... but this time I'm not sure.
> 
> Also not sure if I should have started a new thread or not?
> 
> Anyway... just recently my Spark ST5 190NW (see link above) was stolen! Ahh! I was very happy with this headlamp and despite it being 7 years old I felt no need to upgrade. Amazingly you can still buy them but no doubt technology has advanced enormously since then! (it is currently available with XM-L2)
> 
> 
> Seems the Zebralight H53c with a DC fix (what does that mean?) would be the modern equivalent but there may be even newer tech available now?
> 
> Features I liked about the Spark:
> 
> 1. could use any battery type - though I mostly used 14500 (also reverse polarity protected)
> 2. Neutral white tint - for more natural colours hiking
> 3. memory mode
> 4. very bright - the 190 was with NiMH - way more powerful with 14500 up to 300Lm more
> 5. double click to super mode from any mode and back again
> 6 tough and water resistant IPX 8.
> 7. T body design... I actually like this, easy to access button and puts light source out so it doesn't shine on my nose or beanie as much.
> 8. Floody with wide hotspot done with frosted lens, easily unscrewable for a spotlight.
> 
> Thanks all, really looking forward to your replies. Ben


Welcome. DC fix is a window film you can buy at Home Depot or other places online. There are different kinds so be sure to pick the most appropriate for your diffusion preference. The h53c does not support 14500, but it's designed around AA NIMH and puts out a really decent 285 lumens on high. They also have the h53w which will not render colors as well, and will be a little brighter with a more neutral white tint.


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## likethevegetable

Alright fellas, I braved the -25°C weather and got the chance to play with my flashlights.

In terms of throw, the H53c (as expected) surpassed the H600Fc for a comparable lumens settings. It definitely took a higher setting on the H600Fc to match the H53c. Please, don't quote me on the numbers as these are purely from my perspective in a semi-bright evenining in one area, the weather was also cold and the H53c had a fresh L91 which would perform better in the cold than an 18650. The 596 lm of the Fc looked like the 285 lm of c, and 143 lm of Fc was comparable to 106 lm of the c. The 300 lm of the H600Fc still threw light pretty far (probably more than enough for most purposes), so I wouldn't necessarily defer from a frosted AA model for weaker throw only. The quality of throw however is much better for the spot spill model, in other words, the overall area of the far-throw is larger. If I was trying to spot a trail marker, I'd much rather use spot/spill, even if I had to sacrifice some lumens. At lower settings, the improvement of throw in the spot/spill is very noticeable too. I love the nice tiny 0.01 lm moon my H53c can emit.

The tint of the H600Fc IV so far has been amazing to me - has me giggling like a little kid. I believe the frosted lens helps out with the tint shift, but regardless, the overall colour is just what I wanted. The H600Fc is very neutral with a slight bias towards yellow. The H53c is very yellow at the hotspot, slightly green corona, and whiter in the spill. In my limited field use, they both look great and have their own advantages. The H53c brings out red, green, brown, and yellow amazingly, but makes the snow look muddy. The H600Fc brings out the same colours well, but not quite as vividly, but the snow remains white. I believe the H600Fc is a great balance of colour rendering without too much of a biased tint - it's neutral.


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## likethevegetable

I also forgot to add that I programmed the PID 5°C lower, I didn't notice a step-down and the light didn't get as hot as the default temperature, but I was also in cold weather.

I brought out my BLF A6 3D and my H600Fc was very competitive in terms of brightness. The BLF obviously throws farther, but both felt equally impressive in terms of output.


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## NPL

thanks again for the write up. Looks like the h53c and h600fc make a great combo. Still wished they offered it in a reflector version... But given the high lumen value, I think it will prove to be a good all around work horse. Can't wait to get mine and curious to see this tint for myself. Cheers


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## likethevegetable

Yeah I think you can't go wrong with either choice, the spot/spill still has a decently wide beam, and the frosted have a decently throwy beam, it's not a deal-breaking compromise in either model IMO. 

Looking forward to seeing what you have to say about it!

This community is awesome; it's great to have internet friends to nerd out with about these devices.


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## scs

I'm still hung up on the OP's report of thin and missing anodizing on his sample. That's the exact reason for which I returned my last ZL headlamp. The dealer told me it was typical of ZL and should be expected. I hope in the OP's case, this is just a coincidence, and not an indication of lower anodizing and/or lower QC standards.


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## lampeDépêche

My hang-up is different:

I am attracted to the greater Lumen output of the XHP50 emitters. But because of artifacts in the beam, those are used only in Frosted models. And I *much* prefer Clear-lens models, for the throw (even if I do sometimes use them with dc-fix).

So then I look at the Clear-lens models, and they are all XHP35 emitters. So the lumens are much lower, in fact not *much* higher than my old MkII.

That's where I'm stuck.


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## NPL

lampeDépêche said:


> My hang-up is different:
> 
> I am attracted to the greater Lumen output of the XHP50 emitters. But because of artifacts in the beam, those are used only in Frosted models. And I *much* prefer Clear-lens models, for the throw (even if I do sometimes use them with dc-fix).
> 
> So then I look at the Clear-lens models, and they are all XHP35 emitters. So the lumens are much lower, in fact not *much* higher than my old MkII.
> 
> That's where I'm stuck.


There's also no high CRI (90+) in clear lens reflector headlamps, which bothers me more than the lumen output.


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## markr6

NPL said:


> There's also no high CRI (90+) in clear lens reflector headlamps, which bothers me more than the lumen output.



I know I'm preaching to the choir but we still need that Nichia Zebralight, for those that don't necessarily need a hand-burning light that steps down after 17 seconds anyway.


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## Tachead

scs said:


> I'm still hung up on the OP's report of thin and missing anodizing on his sample. That's the exact reason for which I returned my last ZL headlamp. The dealer told me it was typical of ZL and should be expected. I hope in the OP's case, this is just a coincidence, and not an indication of lower anodizing and/or lower QC standards.



I have ordered 5 ZL's in the last 2 months. Every one has perfectly even thick anodizing. I did receive one with a small dent however. 

While some tiny imperfections don't really effect function, ZL should up their quality control as for the premium they charge, the fit and finish should be perfect. At least one can always take advantage of ZL's return policy and send it back for an exchange if they are not happy though.


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## tech25

Thank you for your thoughts, I love the graph and the way you set up the modes. That is why I would upgrade to the mk4. I have the mk3 and will prob sell it. 

My problem is, I like more of a 4500k tint... I have a "w" and a "c". While the color rendering is much better on the "c", it is a tad too warm unless I use it outdoors. Indoors, I like the "w" tint better but the lower cri and tint shift make me reach for the "c" more often. I'm stuck between the "c" and "d"... 

Of course in real use, there really is not a huge difference, but I have a bunch of lights and compare them side by side, and as such have these nagging thoughts... Lol (flashaholic problems...)


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## markr6

tech25 said:


> Lol (flashaholic problems...)



Haha that's how it goes. You take light "a" but you know you left the one with better tint at home. Take light "b" but you know you left the one with a better CRI at home. Take both and you wish they could be magically combined into one light.


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## Petrsv

likethevegetable said:


> Alright fellas, I braved the -25°C weather and got the chance to play with my flashlights.
> 
> In terms of throw, the H53c (as expected) surpassed the H600Fc for a comparable lumens settings. It definitely took a higher setting on the H600Fc to match the H53c. Please, don't quote me on the numbers as these are purely from my perspective in a semi-bright evenining in one area, the weather was also cold and the H53c had a fresh L91 which would perform better in the cold than an 18650. The 596 lm of the Fc looked like the 285 lm of c, and 143 lm of Fc was comparable to 106 lm of the c. The 300 lm of the H600Fc still threw light pretty far (probably more than enough for most purposes), so I wouldn't necessarily defer from a frosted AA model for weaker throw only. The quality of throw however is much better for the spot spill model, in other words, the overall area of the far-throw is larger. If I was trying to spot a trail marker, I'd much rather use spot/spill, even if I had to sacrifice some lumens. At lower settings, the improvement of throw in the spot/spill is very noticeable too. I love the nice tiny 0.01 lm moon my H53c can emit.
> 
> The tint of the H600Fc IV so far has been amazing to me - has me giggling like a little kid. I believe the frosted lens helps out with the tint shift, but regardless, the overall colour is just what I wanted. The H600Fc is very neutral with a slight bias towards yellow. The H53c is very yellow at the hotspot, slightly green corona, and whiter in the spill. In my limited field use, they both look great and have their own advantages. The H53c brings out red, green, brown, and yellow amazingly, but makes the snow look muddy. The H600Fc brings out the same colours well, but not quite as vividly, but the snow remains white. I believe the H600Fc is a great balance of colour rendering without too much of a biased tint - it's neutral.


Hello , I was wondering, are you using the unprotected 18650 the one sold on zebralight website?


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## likethevegetable

Forgot to mention, I was using an unprotected NCR18650GA in both lights.

Thanks for the feedback folks, I appreciate the positive replies!


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## Petrsv

likethevegetable said:


> Forgot to mention, I was using an unprotected NCR18650GA in both lights.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback folks, I appreciate the positive replies!


I have the H600FD mk4 and it will not work on high with that same 1860. Zebralight said it is the battery and that I need a unproductied one, so I ordered the ZL 635 from there site. But yours works fine with that battery so I think I may have a problem with my light.


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## evgeniy

thanks for review.
Can you make RAW beamshots on white wall (or any other white surface) for H600Fc IV & H53c?


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## likethevegetable

On my OP I show a comparison, the beam on the left is H53c and on the right is H600Fc. I only have my Samsung S7 to take photos with, I feel like I would be doing the beams an injustice by uploading poor photos.


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## likethevegetable

Petrsv said:


> I have the H600FD mk4 and it will not work on high with that same 1860. Zebralight said it is the battery and that I need a unproductied one, so I ordered the ZL 635 from there site. But yours works fine with that battery so I think I may have a problem with my light.



Dang, that's frustrating. I believe the ZL 635 is protected though.. you want a Sanyo UNprotected NCR18650GA


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## psychbeat

lampeDépêche said:


> My hang-up is different:
> 
> I am attracted to the greater Lumen output of the XHP50 emitters. But because of artifacts in the beam, those are used only in Frosted models. And I *much* prefer Clear-lens models, for the throw (even if I do sometimes use them with dc-fix).
> 
> So then I look at the Clear-lens models, and they are all XHP35 emitters. So the lumens are much lower, in fact not *much* higher than my old MkII.
> 
> That's where I'm stuck.



Hey Lampe-
I replaced my beloved & waterlogged H600w MKII with an H600fc MKIII & have felt the beam pretty much universally better for anything I use a headlamp for - MTN bikes, backpacking, camping, cooking etc. 
three of my friends whom frequently ride and backpack with me have h600w MKIII and one has the reflector-less model (which we all think kinda sucks) so I’ve had lots of chances to compare in the field. 

I do usually have a handheld throwy light available but even if not it’s not like ~900 Floody lumens gives me tunnel vision 

The frosted feels like it has more lumens at close range due to the spill being so filled out. 

That’s me 2cents - cheerz!


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## bentas

Well, looks like this was the right thread for me! I've just ordered a Zebralight H600Fc Mk IV! ... as a bonus it's free international shipping (I'm Australian... Tasmanian)

Given that this is my first headlamp since 2011 I thought why not! 

Now a couple of extra questions!

1. Is there a reliable way to mount this to my bike handlebars? (ie somehow mount the silicone holder, I've ordered an extra glow in the dark one, to easily transfer from headtorch to bike?) 

2. Does anyone have an older model 14500 compatible Zebralight like the H52c for sale (or similar quality non ZL?) I think the larger 600 will work great for most things but I still really liked the 14500 size and I had just bought new really good 14500 batteries - well 1 left now after the other went with the stolen Spark ST5.

thanks again, really excited to receive my headlight soon... though not a flashaholic by this forum's standards I loved my ST5 and used it on most days and am lost without it! 

cheers
Ben


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## Lumenize

likethevegetable said:


> I was pleasantly surprised to find a pocket clip in the box, but it looks likes a complete afterthought and consolation gift..


I think you could be right about that because it's nowehere mentioned on the ZL site , the light includes a clip. The pictures are without a clip too.
Good it has a clip because it greatly increases usability (for me). Clipped on your skirt can be handy. Even on the front of your belt can be useful when you don't have the headband with you.

Question: Does it work with flat-tops?


----------



## likethevegetable

Lumenize said:


> I think you could be right about that because it's nowehere mentioned on the ZL site , the light includes a clip. The pictures are without a clip too.
> Good it has a clip because it greatly increases usability (for me). Clipped on your skirt can be handy. Even on the front of your belt can be useful when you don't have the headband with you.
> 
> Question: Does it work with flat-tops?



If you look at their accessories page, it shows an H60x pocket clip for $2.95 (no picture) now. It's a pretty decent clip, I just wish it was deep carry.

Yes it works with my flat top. The tailcap is a spring, and the positive electrode looks like 5 pogo pins.

Speaking of batteries, I did have a bit of battery rattle in my light. It was fixed with one layer of electrical tape near the negative and positive terminal of the battery.


----------



## Lumenize

likethevegetable said:


> If you look at their accessories page, it shows an H60x pocket clip for $2.95 (no picture) now. It's a pretty decent clip, I just wish it was deep carry.
> 
> Yes it works with my flat top. The tailcap is a spring, and the positive electrode looks like 5 pogo pins.
> 
> Speaking of batteries, I did have a bit of battery rattle in my light. It was fixed with one layer of electrical tape near the negative and positive terminal of the battery.


I checked their site for the clip, but unfortunately there is no picture or description.

Good news about the flat tops because I have several.
Even the rattle gives me a little hope... do you think the slightly thicker 20700 cells fit?


----------



## tech25

markr6 said:


> Haha that's how it goes. You take light "a" but you know you left the one with better tint at home. Take light "b" but you know you left the one with a better CRI at home. Take both and you wish they could be magically combined into one light.



Lesson is... Take both! 😀
but would be nice to combine them...


----------



## tech25

psychbeat said:


> Hey Lampe-
> I replaced my beloved & waterlogged H600w MKII with an H600fc MKIII & have felt the beam pretty much universally better for anything I use a headlamp for - MTN bikes, backpacking, camping, cooking etc.
> three of my friends whom frequently ride and backpack with me have h600w MKIII and one has the reflector-less model (which we all think kinda sucks) so I’ve had lots of chances to compare in the field.
> 
> I do usually have a handheld throwy light available but even if not it’s not like ~900 Floody lumens gives me tunnel vision
> 
> The frosted feels like it has more lumens at close range due to the spill being so filled out.
> 
> That’s me 2cents - cheerz!



I am totally with you, the "f" beams still have a hotspot- but reduce the bouncing ball effect of a thrower. I usually have a throwier handheld along as well, but rarely use it.


----------



## likethevegetable

No chance they would.. one layer of tape with an 18650 was tight


----------



## Mattz68

Hey Ben, I use the “two fish lockblock” to mount any of my zebra’s to my handlebars or helmet. They’re cheap (I think like 8 bucks on amazon) and as long as the light isnt too heavy -there won’t be much movement. For any of the “Headlamp models” you mount them vertically on the handle bar and just Velcro them secure. This is kinda nice because the brake wires don’t block the light at all because it’s directly in the center. For trail riding, I use an H600w for helmet and H600cf for handle bar. With this combo I can ride nearly as fast as daytime!


----------



## bentas

thanks Matt, I'll check them out... seems my messages are not going straight through so they're a bit out of kilter with the thread. Anyway, cheers Ben


----------



## twistedraven

Got my H600FCs in today!











All 3 are pretty indistinguishable in terms of anodizing finish.





Lenses seem to be all equally frosted.





Tint difference between the three is very minimal. The camera has a hard time picking it up in this case, but the one in the middle is ever so slightly less rosy/more green than the two on the outside. Deciding between the other two was very hard for me. I ultimately went for the one on the right.







H600FC MK4 on left (93-95cri XHP50.2 4000k), SC600MK3 HI in middle (80cri XHP35 HI 4500k), H600FD MK3 on right (83-85cri XML2 5000k).
The tint differences here are slightly exaggerated. In person I saw the HI's hotspot to be slightly less greenish than it is in picture, but only a little bit. Also keep in mind that my particular SC600 MK3 HI was also cherrypicked between 3 different samples to be the least green I could get it. The differences in tint between the three samples for those was more apparent than the 3 samples of the H600FC I received today.





H600FC MK4 on left, H600FD MK3 on right. This picture is fairly accurate to what I saw in person at the time with my currently adapted eyes. The tint on both is pretty great, but I would probably choose the FC for nighttime tasks, not to mention its higher output and higher CRI (which will be much more subtle of an effect than just discerning the raw differences in color temperature and how that affects spectral balance on objects you view.)


A couple of observations: Zebralight says you can use a protected 18650 for the H600FC's highest output, but it needs be capable of highish drain regardless. The Olight 3600mah 10amp battery I put in it refused to work with the H1 output. A keeppower 3500mah did work, however. For the sake of reduced resistance, I would run unprotected cells only in this light.

The luminous efficacy of the XHP50.2 is great. The H2 output of the H600FC MK4 (980 lumens) takes way longer to get hot to the touch than the H1 output (870 lumens) on the H600FD MK3, even though it's rated for a higher CRI. An advancement of 2-3 generations of LED tech.


I will do some runtime tests next.


----------



## likethevegetable

Congrats twistedraven, photos are looking good.

I noticed last night that the H1 would only last for a few seconds before reducing output to less than 500 lumens (without getting hot), I took the NCR18650GA and measured it at 3.3V.. maybe under H1 there is too much current draw and the voltage drops on the cell to the point where the LVP kicks in and reduces the current order? At 568 lm, the output was very stable though.

It's been bothering me a bit, but the tint on my sample looks way more like your photographed H600Fd III than your H600Fc IV. When I tried to photograph the H53c and H600c in darkness they definitely look like your photographed H600Fc though. I saw a post about the wrong emitter in a SC64c and I guess that's stimulated a bit of paranoia that my baby was a mistake.. lol. Compared with my H53c I would say the average tints are compareable and have identical CCT. Now my 5000k BLF A6 is definitely cooler than my H600Fc. 

I just saw your comment on the H600Fd thread about our eyes vs. camera adapted CCT - a very important consideration I hadn't thought of.


----------



## likethevegetable

Here's another beam shot of the H600Fc IV (left) and H53c (right).


----------



## NPL

Fc looks really good! Very little tint shift. Can you take the same shot but with DC fix on the 53c?  Thanks


----------



## ank

Can you comment on the plastic holder?
Is it as bad as people say, and should be replaced with Armytek plastic holder?


----------



## likethevegetable

ank - it's not terrible, but the Armytek plastic holder fits perfectly and I would recommend it over ZL's without hesitation.


----------



## likethevegetable

I went for walk tonight and compared my H53c + DC-fix to my H600Fc IV. When I first tried the DC-fix on my H53c, I wasn't terribly impressed, but after putting it on again I think I'm gonna give it another chance - it works very well to smooth out the hotspot and mitigate tint-shift. The DC-fix does not widen the spill of the beam by very much though and it's throw still surpasses the frosted lens for approximately the same lumens. I would recommend the DC-fix to someone who might want a little bit more throw with the option of taking it off if need be (if they needed to find a lost trail marker, for example), but the extra spill and smoothness of the frosted lens make it the winner IMO for general use.

I tried my best to take a good photo, but it was -20C and my best camera is my phone. The tree was maybe 50 ft away. 







H600Fc on the left, H53c + DC-Fix on the right. 






I also got around to magnetizing my H600Fc.


----------



## NPL

These are great, thanks again for taking the time to take the photos and share with the rest of us. 

It's cool to see how the h53c with DC fix is now significantly closer to the tint of the h600Fc at least based on the beamshot a provided. H600fc outside looks amazing. At full power it must make night into day!


----------



## scs

Though I agree magnets on the clips are useful, I still wish in the future ZL would offer magnetic tailcaps interchangeable with the current ones.


----------



## lampeDépêche

scs said:


> Though I agree magnets on the clips are useful, I still wish in the future ZL would offer magnetic tailcaps interchangeable with the current ones.



Yeah, I'd be in favor of that option, too.

But having done it myself in the past (i.e. by supergluing a disc magnet onto the tailcap), I have to say that the magnet on the pocket-clip is *much* more versatile.

Think about a magnetic surface like the door of your refrigerator. With a tail-cap magnet, you attach it to the fridge, and then it can point straight up or straight down or anywhere else in a plane parallel to the surface of the door. But that's all. It is constrained to that plane. If you attach it to a steel table-top, then it is like a miniature light-house, shining a beam around the horizon, but not up into the air.

With the magnet on the pocket-clip, you can rotate the barrel of the light with respect to the clip, in order to direct the light to any point in the half-sphere. It can point to all of the places you can point to with a tail-cap magnet, and also all of the other angles, too.

I mean--both would be cool, too, so I am not opposed to having a magnetic tailcap. But it does not replace the utility of a magnet on the pocket-clip.


----------



## ank

Whats the diff between tint and CRI ? I thought that high CRI = perfect tint ?!


----------



## markr6

CCT = correlated colour temperature = in Kelvin, it's the color appearance of the light. Low numbers like 2000K are warm, higher numbers like 6500K are cool.

CRI = color rendering index. 100 is the highest, 80 is pretty standard now days. Basically "color accuracy" but you could write a 900 page book on this. The 90+ CRI LEDs make things look "true"...the red apple actually looks red instead of reddish/orange/purplish. I was counting on my SC5c II to be perfect at 4000K and a high CRI of 93-95. Unfortunately it was very yellow; no better than a standard 80CRI Cree at 4500K to my eyes.

Tint = unfortunately you can buy 10 identical LEDs and they may all have a different tint/cast to them. One may have a hint of green, another yellow, another pinkish. Even though the box says 90CRI, 4500K, that doesn't guarantee they will look exactly the same.

Some types/brands are better than others when it comes to consistency.


----------



## archimedes

It may help to think of tint as a point in "color space" while CCT would be defined by a line ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planckian_locus


----------



## maukka

If you want to describe the light's color accurately, you could use the xy or u'v' coordinates on CIE colorspaces or state the CCT (correlated color temperature) and duv (deviation from the black body radiator which i call tint). I also try to present this information in my reviews. CIE president Yoshi Ono has given many good presentations about the subject and what people actually prefer, this being one of them:

https://www.energystar.gov/sites/de...Energy Star webinar Presentation - Ohno 2.pdf


----------



## NPL

Reading that some users have issues with their lights on H1. Anybody experiencing issues with their FC?


----------



## likethevegetable

For my H600Fc IV, H1 works fine until about 80% charge then after a few seconds it starts flickering for a moment and drops the output to maybe 300 lm. Sometimes a tailcap reset will fix it temporarily. I don't know if this is a real issue or just sensitive low voltage protection. In any case, I don't have enough reason to get a replacement.. I might be the only one so far


----------



## Nuppet

NPL said:


> Reading that some users have issues with their lights on H1. Anybody experiencing issues with their FC?



I get better performance when using a SC64c tail cap instead of the original one.

I did some tests and posted in the "Defective-zebralight H600FD MK IV" thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...H600FD-MK-IV&p=5183403&viewfull=1#post5183403


----------



## NPL

I am thinking about cancelling my pre-order due to these issues. The whole point of PID and what makes this feature on Zebralights fantastic is that it appears stepless to the human eye. The way H1 is acting seems to be an either poorly designer driver or poorly implemented PID in that setting...


----------



## likethevegetable

I agree NPL, if my H1 was acting like others have reported, I would definitely have choked down the international shipping costs and sent it back. Based on what I've seen, I'm pretty lucky to even have a functioning H1, even if it's only available for cell charge >80%. 

If ZL flat out deleted the 1568 lm mode, I would have still ordered it and would be completely happy with it. The light runs impressively well at 980 lm and that is bright enough for all my (and probably most others) applications.

It's a funny scenario... To recieve a light and have one advertised setting not work would be enough for me to send it back, but if that one setting did not exist in the first place, I would be content with the product..


----------



## evgeniy

likethevegetable said:


> If ZL flat out deleted the 1568 lm mode, I would have still ordered it and would be completely happy with it. The light runs impressively well at 980 lm and that is bright enough for all my (and probably most others) applications.
> It's a funny scenario... To recieve a light and have one advertised setting not work would be enough for me to send it back, but if that one setting did not exist in the first place, I would be content with the product..



"The light runs impressively well at 980 lm"

Are you see any low-freq. flicker / thermocontrol problems in 980lm and 590 lm modes, similar to problem, that founded by NPL in 1568lm mode ?


----------



## NPL

Does anybody NOT have issues in H1 mode?


----------



## twistedraven

My H1 works fine on all 3 samples I received.


----------



## likethevegetable

evgeniy said:


> "
> 
> Are you see any low-freq. flicker / thermocontrol problems in 980lm and 590 lm modes, similar to problem, that founded by NPL in 1568lm mode ?



Haven't seen any flicker below H1. PID seems to work fine for all modes. Used a fresh cell and H1 quite a bit outside today and it worked well.


----------



## Sherbona

My H600Fc's H1 mode is fine. As far as batteries so far I've used zebralight's ZL635 and sony VTC6


----------



## likethevegetable

Sherbona said:


> My H600Fc's H1 mode is fine. As far as batteries so far I've used zebralight's ZL635 and sony VTC6





twistedraven said:


> My H1 works fine on all 3 samples I received.



Does your H1 work with lower cell charges, say, "2 flashes"?


----------



## evgeniy

likethevegetable said:


> Haven't seen any flicker below H1. PID seems to work fine for all modes.



thanks.
With new firmware we can simply change H1 from 1560lm to 980lm and resolve this issue.


----------



## Sherbona

I left it on H1 for quite awhile just now and then turned it off for a bit. After coming back to it, the battery check had "1 flash". I then it turned back on to H1, after a few seconds it flickered for half a second and then dropped down to what looks like M1. I'll try again maybe later this week to see what I get when the battery is at 2 flash. Oh, the sony vt6 battery voltage for this 1 flash test was at 3.10v according to a MC3000 charger (measured before charging).


----------



## likethevegetable

Thanks for the reply. I'm running a test to find the actual cutoff cell voltage for mine. I gave the contacts a better clean than before and so far so good at 3.6V, which according to some people is about 50% charge.


----------



## likethevegetable

My NCR18650GA was at 3.55V when the battery indicator was giving 2 flashes.

It would give one or to flickers when first turning it on and some small intermittent flickers, but it held on or 30 seconds before cutting out. The light was also very hot by this point so PID might have had something to with it. Wow this thing gets hot!

So for my light, I would say it runs H1 reliably for NCR18650GA cell voltages >3.6V, (about 50%) after that it's a few seconds burst.


----------



## NPL

Thanks for all the additional feedback. Up to 50% is not bad, but sounds like Zebralight cut some corners here and could have done a better job with implementation. I wonder on a full battery in a cold environment, how long H1 will last before it steps down visually?


----------



## psychbeat

I think non “high drain” batteries are sagging so much under the heavy load that they’re hitting the low voltage cutoff earlier than many people expected on H1. 

Try a fresh VTC6 or 30q etc.


----------



## likethevegetable

NPL said:


> Thanks for all the additional feedback. Up to 50% is not bad, but sounds like Zebralight cut some corners here and could have done a better job with implementation. I wonder on a full battery in a cold environment, how long H1 will last before it steps down visually?



FWIW I've ran H1 at -25°C for at least two minutes without visual step down, it was pretty hot and I turned off manually at that point. Next time I go for a night walk I'll push it further.



psychbeat said:


> I think non “high drain” batteries are sagging so much under the heavy load that they’re hitting the low voltage cutoff earlier than many people expected on H1.
> 
> Try a fresh VTC6 or 30q etc.



I unfortunately gave my only 30Q to my vapaholic nephew for Christmas. Might buy some VTC6s in the future when they go on sale; Li-ion's in Canada are a tough pill to swallow... I like to buy multiple items from Illumn to spread the shipping fees.


----------



## twistedraven

likethevegetable said:


> Does your H1 work with lower cell charges, say, "2 flashes"?



No, it doesn't. I run only unprotected cells with the H600FC. Anything protected will have too much resistance and thus give less voltage to the light after its drained a little bit, triggering the low voltage cutoff too early. The H600FC is the heaviest driven Zebralight I've had so far, it definitely needs unprotected high discharge cells for optimal H1 performance.


----------



## likethevegetable

I kept running mine and it seems that the H1 was only cutting off sometimes between 2 and 1 flashes, then once the cell reached 1 flash, measured at 3.2 V, it would cut out each time. I think putting a lot more effort into cleaning the contacts helped my cause quite a bit


----------



## niraya

markr6 said:


> CRI LEDs make things look "true"


 only if you believe incandescent is "true". The reference point is what I see as somewhat problematic to take 100 CRI as being "true"
.


----------



## markr6

niraya said:


> only if you believe incandescent is "true". The reference point is what I see as somewhat problematic to take 100 CRI as being "true"
> .



It can be subjective...but 37 years of subjectivity for me. So I can only continue to trust what my eyes see.


----------



## Tachead

likethevegetable said:


> I kept running mine and it seems that the H1 was only cutting off sometimes between 2 and 1 flashes, then once the cell reached 1 flash, measured at 3.2 V, it would cut out each time. I think putting a lot more effort into cleaning the contacts helped my cause quite a bit



You should get some Deoxit Gold. It will help keep your contacts clean and the resistance as low as possible. I use the liquid form(G100) on all of my lights as soon as I get them as it works great. The older ones you might want to clean with some Deoxit D Series first before using the Gold. Imo every flashaholic should have a supply of Deoxit D&G series on hand.


----------



## niraya

markr6 said:


> It can be subjective...but 37 years of subjectivity for me. So I can only continue to trust what my eyes see.


 Right, but see when?
Many illumination sources can be seen as most trustworthy and 100CRI. 
Incandescent is not more true for me than f.e. noon sunshine. :thinking:


----------



## NPL

Tachead said:


> You should get some Deoxit Gold. It will help keep your contacts clean and the resistance as low as possible. I use the liquid form(G100) on all of my lights as soon as I get them as it works great. The older ones you might want to clean with some Deoxit D Series first before using the Gold. Imo every flashaholic should have a supply of Deoxit D&G series on hand.


Very interesting. Will def buy some of this. I wonder how this will affect the performance of H1 on the new xhp50 headlamps.


----------



## Tachead

NPL said:


> Very interesting. Will def buy some of this. I wonder how this will affect the performance of H1 on the new xhp50 headlamps.


Well, it may or may not help with a brand new light but, more importantly it will maintain the highest level of performance possible and take contact resistance issues out of the equation. It also helps lubricate and lower wear over time. It's good stuff. Check out the product sheets on their site...

http://caig.com/technical-data/


----------



## Lumencrazy

By far the best light around, but the cheapest, most uncomfortable, poorly designed silicone holder on this planet. Leaves vertical indentations in your scull along with a headache if you wear it for an extended period of time. A real shame.


----------



## Tachead

Lumencrazy said:


> By far the best light around, but the cheapest, most uncomfortable, poorly designed silicone holder on this planet. Leaves vertical indentations in your scull along with a headache if you wear it for an extended period of time. A real shame.


Use the top strap and loosen the headband portion. You have it way too tight. If the top strap is adjusted properly the headband just needs to be barely snug and its secure. 

If it still bothers you then grab an Armytek plastic holder or the Olight H2R headband.


----------



## markr6

niraya said:


> Right, but see when?
> Many illumination sources can be seen as most trustworthy and 100CRI.
> Incandescent is not more true for me than f.e. noon sunshine. :thinking:



I guess I'm just going along with the majority, which is a standard I'll willingly accept.

When I buy bulbs that are 90+ CRI, I like them. I always have. I don't ask the manufacturer questions like "is this moonlight" or "compared to sunlight at 3:12 PM".


----------



## Alex64

Hi, i buyed the H600fd XHP50.2 and only have Samsung 30Q batteries, you can confirm if it works well or if better buy Sanyo NCR18650GA? Thanks.


----------



## likethevegetable

Your 30Q batteries are probably a bit better for running H1 than NCR18650GA because it should have lower resistance at higher currents. 

All other modes though, the NCR18650GA would give you better runtime. 3500 mAh vs 3000 mAh)

Both batteries are excellent either way.


----------



## NPL

Any second impressions with those that have already received their lights? Getting mine on Monday ....


----------



## Nuppet

My sample has the nicest tint of all my Zebralights, and I'm very pleased with it. A pleasant surprise is that it came with a pocket clip that is also available for order from the Zebralight home page.

A negative is that I think the tail cap with its long and thin spring (same as my SC63w) does not really handle the current at H1. I get better performance (longer time on high before step down) using the tail cap from my SC64c (shorter spring), and the H600Fc tail cap seems to become warmer at H1 than the one from my SC64c. I could use the SC64c tail camp on my head lamp but a vigorous shake will turn it off. Since I am a bit uncomfortable with the H1, I have programmed the G6 mode group to have 980 Lm as max.


----------



## Alex64

likethevegetable said:


> Your 30Q batteries are probably a bit better for running H1 than NCR18650GA because it should have lower resistance at higher currents.
> 
> All other modes though, the NCR18650GA would give you better runtime. 3500 mAh vs 3000 mAh)
> 
> Both batteries are excellent either way.


Thanks. Always use the 30Q for my flashlights, the have good price, good performance and good reliability.




Nuppet said:


> My sample has the nicest tint of all my Zebralights, and I'm very pleased with it. A pleasant surprise is that it came with a pocket clip that is also available for order from the Zebralight home page.
> 
> A negative is that I think the tail cap with its long and thin spring (same as my SC63w) does not really handle the current at H1. I get better performance (longer time on high before step down) using the tail cap from my SC64c (shorter spring), and the H600Fc tail cap seems to become warmer at H1 than the one from my SC64c. I could use the SC64c tail camp on my head lamp but a vigorous shake will turn it off. Since I am a bit uncomfortable with the H1, I have programmed the G6 mode group to have 980 Lm as max.


Interesting. It's possible that the HF600Fc tailcap transmit more amperage and therefore more heat/stepdown faster than SC64 tailcap.


----------



## likethevegetable

I've already said a lot about mine, but I will just reinforce that I absolutely love the tint, I couldn't ask for anything nicer (although I've never owned a Nichia).


----------



## NPL

Nuppet said:


> My sample has the nicest tint of all my Zebralights, and I'm very pleased with it. A pleasant surprise is that it came with a pocket clip that is also available for order from the Zebralight home page.
> 
> A negative is that I think the tail cap with its long and thin spring (same as my SC63w) does not really handle the current at H1. I get better performance (longer time on high before step down) using the tail cap from my SC64c (shorter spring), and the H600Fc tail cap seems to become warmer at H1 than the one from my SC64c. I could use the SC64c tail camp on my head lamp but a vigorous shake will turn it off. Since I am a bit uncomfortable with the H1, I have programmed the G6 mode group to have 980 Lm as max.


When I get mine, I will test H1 using an sc600w tail cap and see if it also makes a difference. 

Overall, glad to see people are still happy with their purchase. The oscillating PID in high modes is still a concern of mine, but I'll reach my own conclusion once I get to spend some time with the light.


----------



## likethevegetable

NPL said:


> When I get mine, I will test H1 using an sc600w tail cap and see if it also makes a difference.
> 
> Overall, glad to see people are still happy with their purchase. The oscillating PID in high modes is still a concern of mine, but I'll reach my own conclusion once I get to spend some time with the light.



Yeah there seems to be a few duds that people got, but myself and other uses have been running H1 just fine. Run'r hard before deciding to keep it!

I've determined that for my light using an NCR18650GA, about 3.6-3.5V (50%) is the voltage before H1 starts to trip after a few seconds of being on (no oscillations though). 

I programmed G6 & G7 the same except G7 replaces 1568 lm with 980 lm.


----------



## AEDe

Problems with H1 take place because of hi resistance of spring. It is hearing up and increase resistance.
You can simply check it. Turn on H1 and after 30-40sec take off tailcap -fast- and touch middle part of spring. Be careful. I can not measured temperature but it extremely hot.

Another simple test of H1. Use full charged battery Turn on H1 and put it underwater (It cool whole light except spring) and measure time until stepdown. 
(I bet it will be about 10min)


----------



## evgeniy

likethevegetable said:


> I programmed G6 & G7 the same except G7 replaces 1568 lm with 980 lm.



... And problem completely solved.


----------



## evgeniy

may be, PID in mk. IV version isn't optimal (tuned for max.output), but what we have in practice for H600Fc/Fd headlamps ?

1) max. mode for continuous use in any weather is *280lm* (may be, except very hot nights), this mode has no PID.
_And no problems with PID, no problems with springs.
_
2) In cold/moderate cold weather (as currently in my city, ~~0C) *580lm* mode will work without PID and may be used for continuous use. (In hot weather yes, brightless will be decreased. )
_No problems with PID, no problems with springs.
_
3) For short time in any weather we can use turbo mode, *980lm*, for 1-2min. With PID after that, but in any case we 'll receive 1-2min of bright light. It's more than user usually need for "turbo" purposes from headlamp,
for many years I use turbo mode in my Zebra headlamps for few tens seconds, <1min.
_No problems with PID, no problems with springs._

4) watercooled / hard cooled tests + continuous use of 1560lm mode, other "bdsm" use, etc.
_Yes, in these modes we 'll have problems with PID and problems with springs._


----------



## AEDe

You told it everywhere. But what you want to say?
That mk4 have no issues? It have. ZL reply
“1) We are aware of the high current through the spring, and that’s the exactly why we switched to multiple pins in our flashlight products. High output headlamp models will move to the pin design in the future. Different spring materials or bypass won’t help much because some of our customers will still insist on using their low quality high resistance protected batteries. 
2) We are aware of the ringing/oscillating in the Mk 4 18650 lights. We’ll try to fine tune the PID parameters (and possibly setting up a new calibration process) in future. “

Yes those issues usually have small effect on users.
But it must be fixed, isn't it?


----------



## eh4

Meanwhile, the H600Fw is still available on sale for 59$, rock solid light, daily driver... kind of a Honda Civic sort of light.


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## NPL

OK, so after a fair bit of waiting, and posting on this thread, I have finally received my H600Fc MK4 and wanted to provide my initial impressions after 3 days with the light.

I will skim through the usual and spend more time reporting the quirks.

Construction:
Construction is fantastic, as with all my other Zebralights, and it continues to make every other light I have owned or handled feel cheap.

Battery compartment:
The Battery compartment is quite slim to the point where I cannot insert certain batteries.
My green protected NCR18650B fit no problem, and so do my unprotected NCR18650GA (red ones from Zebralight).
My Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA Protected 3500mAh batteries purchased from MTN Electronics DO NOT FIT. I was a little disappointed by this, but its no deal breaker by any means.

Tint:
The tint, which I consider one of the most important aspects of any light passes with flying colors on this model. The colour temp is warm, as expected. The tint feels clean and free of Green hues. A little orangy/yellow, but just a touch. Quite close to a Nichia 219C 4000K but a minor touch more yellow. The spot/spill is very even with no color variations or colour temp variations. Can't say for sure if this is attributed to the LED, as the frosted optic might be doing all the work blending inconsistencies in the beam. 

Beam:
This is my first F model from Zebralight. I think it makes a fantastic all around headlamp, but my preference would have still been a traditional reflector with spot/spill. Unfortunately, Zebralight doesn't make one with 90+ CRI. Since high CRI and warm/neutral colour temps are prerequisites for any light, I was willing to take this compromise. Between 2-10 meters away, the beam is beautiful, with super smooth transition from spot to spill. No tunnel vision. My H53c is able to shine quite a bit further at the same lumen output, which is one of the reasons why I like spot/spill better. Although they aren't more efficient, you tend to use them at lower outputs. 

Output:
The output of this light is VERY impressive, especially at the H1 (1500+ lumens) setting. This setting is really just a temporary turbo and of little use to me, as the light overheats VERY quickly as others have mentioned already. Regardless of how long it lasts, seeing things with 1500 lumens at 4000K and 90 CRI is just amazing!! I just don't understand anybody who continues to buy 70 CRI lights, be it a thrower or flooder, but that's just me. I always favour quality over quantity, and in my metaphor, would rather eat a small cup of delicious Ben and Jerry's icecream instead of a large tub of knock off house brand cheap ice cream. This Headlamp delivers both quality of light, and heaps of quantity of lumens. Really can't complain.

Moonlight:
Still very good moonlight, but not as dim as my H53C. 

PID:
The PID of this headlamp matches reports from all other users. Under the ceilingbounce app, you can clearly see the oscillations as the light increases and decreases in output to try and chase the optimal temperature. My SC600w MK3 HI is seamless in comparison, drawing a really smooth line with very minor "steps".
App aside, in H1(1500+) and H2(900+ lumens), the oscillations are VISIBLE to my eyes, but not in any detrimental way. 
I am not of fan of these visible oscillations, and feel like Zebralight cut some corners and released the MK4 lights too soon. As it was the first time I pre-ordered something, I expected the same standards as my MK2 and MK3 lights, so this caught me a little by surprise. 
The reality is, that in a scenario where the PID needs to kick in, the light will have to step down anyways, so whether it does this in a pretty or non noticeable fashion is not a deal breaker. When I will be using the light, I already know what the ambient temp is, or speed of my activity, and will set the light to a realistic output that I know it can sustain. IE, if its cold and I am skiing, will put it at 900 lumens. If its warm outside, will stick to 300-500 lumens max. If I need to see as far as possible or make my friends say wow, I'll put it at 1500 lumens for a minute or two. 
When running on H1 or H2 for several minutes, I noticed that when I touched the head, the PID would adjust quickly and increase in output. The PID works, but the calibration to achieve a more linear transition is a fail. 

Summary:
The light is def a keeper. The H1 and H2 modes and poorly implemented PID were disappointing, but reality is that in any extended use (in most situations), even a MK3 light will eventually step down to the 300-500 lumen setting at the same rate. This is where the H600fc MK4 shines best  Beautiful tint, hopefully better runtimes at medium output settings compared to MK3 lights. 

PROS:
-Amazing Zebralight build quality
-Amazing even Tint
-Amazing Output
-Great Color Rendering, at par with my H53c
-Programmable (my setup: G5, G6 with H1 set at 900 lm, G7 with H1 set at 500 lm)
-Moonlight mode

CONS:
-very poorly implemented PID compared to MK3 generation lights
-Tight battery compartment won't accept all 18650 batteries
-Unrealistic H1 setting compared to MK3 lights. *would have preferred lower output with better PID if it was an option.
-Moonlight not as dim as some other models.


----------



## scs

Regarding the spring...the Emisar D4 has a spring in its tailcap, and it draws many amps, more than ZLs do if I'm not mistaken, without problems. Why does ZL make it sound like no single spring is a viable alternative to the POGO pins?


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## AEDe

I have asked ZL , about CU Be springs too. The answer is above. But it looks like not answer at all.


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## Alex64

scs said:


> Regarding the spring...the Emisar D4 has a spring in its tailcap, and it draws many amps, more than ZLs do if I'm not mistaken, without problems


Yes, and the same with the Armytek Wizard XHP50 with the same led and more lumens.


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## ven

Nice write up/feedback NPL, thanks for taking the time and sharing


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## evgeniy

This level of thermal regulation isn't new :
as described in ""measurements of turbo mode in SC600w mkIV, H600FD mk IV, H600w mk III" ,

H600w mk III has even more oscillations, than mk IV,
but ... for 1.5-2 years of practical use H600 mark III series nobody wrote about for "wrong thermal regulation". 

graphs :
SC600w mkIV, 






H600FD mk IV, 





H600w mk III


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## NPL

Very interesting. Funny how some mk3 are great like the sc600w mk3 Hi, and others as shown above are not.

Did a beam comparison of my triple xp-g3 4000k 90cri and my new H600fc, and wow, huge difference. The XP-G3 was super yellow in comparison. The FC was significantly more neutral with a Rosy tint to it.


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## AEDe

H600Fc mk3 from first butch . The peak is test of PID (active cooling on/off)


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## bentas

Woohoo, my H600Fc has arrived, what a step up in tech from my Spark ST5!! 

Amazing output (I know the battery is also much bigger, but headlamp not much heavier overall to my old ST5), Amazing tint, 'Wow Dad it's like sunlight', (my 5 year old daughter 🙂). My first headlamp with moonlight too, it's great!! Using LGDBMJ11865 battery, working well so far. 
Glad I went with this, still would like a 14500 headlamp though, do you think Zebralight will stay with the NiMH AA's or go back to 14500 compatible?


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## LessDark

I've had mine for a few days and have to say I like everything about it except the tint!
It is quite green/yellow, really annoys me when I compare it to my H600Fc III which has a perfect warm tint...


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## leezg

Just received my H600fc IV today. This is my first "real" flashlight.
First impression was a pleasant surprise how small it is, was expecting a bigger piece. The aa models are probably too small, or perfect for edc.
Tested it a bit tonight, very bright. I am very happy with my Zebralight.
Headband was on my head shortly, but I can not see why people say its uncomfortable.
I just have to measure tommorow which size magnet will fit under the spring , then order one and super glue it in.


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## hrbngr

Hello,

I am looking at purchasing a H600Fc Mk IV direct from ZebraLight. Has any one bought one of these more recently to determine if the PID issue on the H1/H2 settings to still be a problem? Also, is there a source for the Armytek headband/holder that everyone is recommending in this thread?

Currently own a H602W purchased in 2015.


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## likethevegetable

hrbngr said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am looking at purchasing a H600Fc Mk IV direct from ZebraLight. Has any one bought one of these more recently to determine if the PID issue on the H1/H2 settings to still be a problem? Also, is there a source for the Armytek headband/holder that everyone is recommending in this thread?
> 
> Currently own a H602W purchased in 2015.



I received (likely) one of the first productions of the H600Fc IV with no issues; unfortunately I can’t answer your first question.

https://ru.nkon.nl/ is a great supplier for flashlights and accessories. I got an AT holder and pocket clip (required a grinder and pliers to make it fit) from them without issues. I’ve also been told that the type B pocket clip here works great too: https://www.nitecorestore.com/Pocket-Clip-for-Nitecore-P12-Flashlight-p/acc-clip-nitecore.htm


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## Mr. LED

Anybody knows which app was used to measure and plot these graphics?


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## NPL

Mr. LED said:


> Anybody knows which app was used to measure and plot these graphics?


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.red...oducing_ceilingbounce_flashlight_testing_for/


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## Lumencrazy

Unfortunately they still make the cheapest, most uncomfortable silicone holder for the headband. The worst in the industry.


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## markr6

Lumencrazy said:


> Unfortunately they still make the cheapest, most uncomfortable silicone holder for the headband. The worst in the industry.



I like it after routing the strap thru the part that holds the lamp as well. Nice and smooth against my head with no irregular or hotspots. After extensive use with one of mine while backpacking it still looks and functions like new after 5 years now.


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## Mr. LED

Mark, can you please post a pic for us, showing what is this “routing the strap”? My next zebra is H600w IV, just waiting to come back in stock.
Thanks.


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## markr6

Mr. LED said:


> Mark, can you please post a pic for us, showing what is this “routing the strap”? My next zebra is H600w IV, just waiting to come back in stock.
> Thanks.



I've always meant to get a pic after all these years but keep forgetting. I'll try to remember today.

But to describe it, you take the lamp out, run the strap thru a slot from the bottom, then thru the round hole then thru the other round hole, then out the other slot. It seems strange but once you do this and reinsert the lamp, it holds the lamp a little tighter (good for running/biking) and also eliminates any pressure on your head since it's just a smooth piece of rubber touching your forehead and nothing else. As it comes out of the box, there's a bit of pressure on each end where the strap runs thru the slots. It didn't bother me too much, but it was certainly something I wanted to fix.


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## Mr. LED

OK, I think I understood. Thanks for the explanation.


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## SHL

AEDe said:


> You told it everywhere. But what you want to say?
> That mk4 have no issues? It have. ZL reply
> “1) We are aware of the high current through the spring, and that’s the exactly why we switched to multiple pins in our flashlight products. High output headlamp models will move to the pin design in the future. Different spring materials or bypass won’t help much because some of our customers will still insist on using their low quality high resistance protected batteries.
> 2) We are aware of the ringing/oscillating in the Mk 4 18650 lights. We’ll try to fine tune the PID parameters (and possibly setting up a new calibration process) in future. “
> 
> Yes those issues usually have small effect on users.
> But it must be fixed, isn't it?



Hi CPF, my first post here...

I have been looking for a good headlamp for some time now and it seems like the ZL H600Fc Mk IV comes the closest to fitting my requirements. So much so, that I ordered one from ZL yesterday, even with the issues mentioned in here, with the oscillating PID and the tailcap.

Nevertheless, I wonder if any of you know if any of these two issues have been solved or improved in current production models?

Thanks in advance.


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## mobi

Welcome to CPF.

Using an H600Fd Mk IV here. The issues you asked about apply to the "d" as well as "c". I'm writing about a related issue that deals with current flow for the lowest levels.

When the light arrives, it acted erratically. I cleaned the tailcap spring assembly. Apparently some silicone liberally applied to the screw threads of the light had gotten onto the part of the spring that makes electrical contact with the body.

That helped. Still, there was a persistent, intermittent problem with the lower lamp light levels. I attribute this to a cold battery, since in the winter I use the light in a cold environment. What led me to this tentative conclusion is that when I heated up the battery by turning the light on high for a while, then the problems cleared up.

In any case, Zebralight recommends on its website using their ZL battery, and I have four of their 18650's; yet apparently their batteries are part of the problem.

I am a fan of Zebralights. They are the lights I use almost exclusively. ZL is always pushing the envelope to develop better lights. This H600Fd has color popping CRI which makes any shortcomings neglible.

If I need to get new batteries to take advantage of new advancements, so be it. But for now, I'm managing fine with just the ZL batteries.

Edit: Zebralight does not outright recommend using the ZL635 battery. However, the ZL635 is used as the battery they insert into the H600Fd to determine its actual weight with a battery. I take that as an endorsement of sorts. That being said, according to the communication from ZL quoted in the comment above, protected batteries like the ZL635 are considered suspect because of their added resistance. Or perhaps ZL was only referring to inferior protected batteries.


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## TA_ls1

Hi all,

I am looking at the H600Fc, but does anyone know if Zebralight has addressed/fixed the oscillating PID and the issue with the spring in the tailcap mentioned in this thread?


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## mobi

TA_ls1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am looking at the H600Fc, but does anyone know if Zebralight has addressed/fixed the oscillating PID and the issue with the spring in the tailcap mentioned in this thread?



I wrote the post above referencing the spring in the cap over two years ago. I've been using the H600Fd Mk IV daily since then, hours a day. I have not encountered any issue with the spring in that time span.


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## Gemster

I recently got the H600Fd Mk IV after a bit of a backorder wait and so far I'm not favorably impressed. My light dims itself down significantly from high after 25 minutes from a fully charged battery. It doesn't like to operate on high when the battery is under 4 volts and dims almost immediately. I have a previous model in the series and it doesn't present with that issue so I wonder if the higher output is a setback. Coorespondances with the manufacturer seems to circle back to "cool it down" but if that is a requirement of use then it's not a useful tool to me. Sending it back for diagnosis.
​


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## fxsniper

Gemster said:


> I recently got the H600Fd Mk IV after a bit of a backorder wait and so far I'm not favorably impressed. My light dims itself down significantly from high after 25 minutes from a fully charged battery. It doesn't like to operate on high when the battery is under 4 volts and dims almost immediately. I have a previous model in the series and it doesn't present with that issue so I wonder if the higher output is a setback. Coorespondances with the manufacturer seems to circle back to "cool it down" but if that is a requirement of use then it's not a useful tool to me. Sending it back for diagnosis.
> [h3][/h3]


Any news?


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## Stefano

I also recently had some similar problems. 
I have three headlamps MKIV series and they have not been used much after purchase. 
I recently found out that of the three Headlamp the H604d is the one that maintains performance the longest before going down. 
H604c is the one with the worst behavior (drops fastest of all three)
H600Fw an intermediate behavior between the two. 
I used thermometers, stopwatch and lux meter to test using multiple batteries and also using the same battery on multiple flashlights. 
A test at about 21 C ° (indoors) showed this H604c problematic, but the repeated test outdoors with 14C ° and a lot of wind gave different (better) results. 
The H604c is always the worst of the three examples but with the wind and the low temperature the times before the stepdown change a lot (for the better)

I tried again at home using also a hairdryer when I see the light go down (cold air used at minimum) 
The Zebralights seem very sensitive to air circulation, just a few seconds of hair dryer (even kept away!) 
A few seconds of air are enough to see the power increase immediately (visible even without lux meter)
I opened a case with Zebralight cs, the communications were difficult because there are no answers using the email while they are immediate by writing through the account on their site
They say that the PID oscillations are not visible but I see them well, both with the instrument and with the naked eye.

I took advantage of the event to analyze the behavior of my old H602w by doing tests at the 620 lumens level. 
Here too it was interesting to see the behavior, constant light for many consecutive minutes and after around 10 minutes (homemade test - about 21 C ° - no fan) the power drops to about 480 lumens but just use the hair dryer at minimum (held away) for a few seconds to see the 620 lumens return immediately.

For H604c I hope to receive clarification from Zebralight, I find it absurd that three lights of the same series purchased a few months from each other have given different results. 
This being the case, my H604c can only be used at high power at low temperatures. 
I tried to follow the instructions and change the PID value but without noticing any change. 
For the moment they told me to clean the contacts but I don't have Deoxit, I'm waiting for their answer to find out if I can use homemade alcohol or a specific WD 40 for electrical contacts.

The behavior of my Armytek is different, they keep the maximum power longer without going down but the new v4 versions have a differently calibrated thermal sensor and will be similar to the Zebra. 
I heard from a dealer that there are many complaints about excessive heat but with my Armytek I never got burned :-D

However, I want to clarify that the Armytek Pro is bigger, heavier and also has cooling fins. 
The old Wizard Pro V3 has a thermal sensor that intervenes at 60 or 65 C ° while the Zebralights never get so hot, with an infrared thermometer I have always detected lower temperatures (they change depending on the measured point) I do not seem to ever having seen more than 55 ° C


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## JimIslander

Stefano, the H604c is high CRI and warmest LED. That combination = hottest led per lumen produced. So isn't this behavior what one would expect between those lights?


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## Stefano

JimIslander said:


> Stefano, the H604c is high CRI and warmest LED. That combination = hottest led per lumen produced. So isn't this behavior what one would expect between those lights?


Thanks for the tip but I'm stumped
H604d=5000K
H604c=4000K
Zebralight on the site declares the same lumens for both but with the lux meter I see that the c version has about 7/10% less lux
I don't understand why 1000 degrees Kelvin difference gives a much faster descent.
The descent with the H604d starts much later and is slower.
I posted the details in another thread





The Official Zebralight Thread .


This looks like the place to ask..... Does anybody know if Zebralight is going out of business? Most of their models are completely unavailable in the UK now. And the situation seems to be similar in the rest of Europe. There seems to be a small amount of stock at NKON but they only deal in...




www.candlepowerforums.com




Later I try again with H602w, I have done some tests with it but only on the level of 620 lumens and not on the turbo, I want to see how it goes down.


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## AstroTurf

Have you tried to adjust or reset the pid?


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## AstroTurf

Sorry, just read that you did attempt a pid adjustment.

Without any change from pid, its function could be bad.

Either programming or components.


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## Stefano

AstroTurf said:


> Sorry, just read that you did attempt a pid adjustment.
> 
> Without any change from pid, its function could be bad.
> 
> Either programming or components.


Yes, I have tried both the reset and to raise the PID. 
I thought maybe there was some anomaly because I had activated the G6 function but it didn't depend on that - I reset that too.
I also tried lowering the PID but didn't notice any difference.
Let's see what Zebralight replies to my second message.
How many here have ever tried to change the PID? (I had never done it before)
Luckily we are heading for the winter


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## Stefano

Zebralight wrote to me to clean the contacts, if this does not solve the problem send to China for repair. 
I cleaned the contacts, waited a day or two to be sure of drying and repeated the test. 
Everything remained as before, the H604c drops in brightness too soon compared to the H604d
After a few days I was about to pack the headlamp for shipping, even though the hot version was marked with an orange string (to recognize it) I wanted to check that it was the "c" version with the PID problem. 
I realized that it no longer works, it does not turn on, it is the first Zebralight that "dies"


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## nollij

likethevegetable said:


> ank - it's not terrible, but the Armytek plastic holder fits perfectly and I would recommend it over ZL's without hesitation.


From an old post but wondering if anyone has a link for a better holder (Armytek?) than the silicone holder that ZL ships with it's lights? I'm looking to upgrade to a H604c from my old ZL (can't even remember the model... long discontinued) and I never loved the silicone holder as it would slip if I was running or bouncing around.


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## nollij

Maybe you just got the rare "bad" one? I hope so (for my sake) as I'm getting ready to order the same one you have...


Stefano said:


> Zebralight wrote to me to clean the contacts, if this does not solve the problem send to China for repair.
> I cleaned the contacts, waited a day or two to be sure of drying and repeated the test.
> Everything remained as before, the H604c drops in brightness too soon compared to the H604d
> After a few days I was about to pack the headlamp for shipping, even though the hot version was marked with an orange string (to recognize it) I wanted to check that it was the "c" version with the PID problem.
> I realized that it no longer works, it does not turn on, it is the first Zebralight that "dies


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## likethevegetable

When I purchased it from the site, I was able to just get the mount. It looks like the design may have changed slightly with the silicon ring. Can't guarantee this works!






Headband + holder for Armytek Wizard (Pro) C2 / Elf C2 - Armytek Flashlights - Brands - Flashlights | NKON


.




ru.nkon.nl










Pocket Clip for Armytek Wizard (Pro) - Armytek Flashlights - Brands - Flashlights | NKON


.




ru.nkon.nl


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## Stefano

nollij said:


> Maybe you just got the rare "bad" one? I hope so (for my sake) as I'm getting ready to order the same one you have...


I also hope it's just a bad specimen.
My impression is that the switch is broken, this headlamp was new, before the break I had only programmed G6 and made some reset to try to understand if the thermal problem could be solved.
The H604d is beautiful, the H600 Fc soon drops in brightness but not as the H604c.
I bought H604c, H604d and H600Fc but they were hardly used.
My old H602w has been used a lot and is still solid.


----------



## Stefano

nollij said:


> From an old post but wondering if anyone has a link for a better holder (Armytek?) than the silicone holder that ZL ships with it's lights? I'm looking to upgrade to a H604c from my old ZL (can't even remember the model... long discontinued) and I never loved the silicone holder as it would slip if I was running or bouncing around.


I only use soft rubber holder.
The best soft rubber mounts are the old Armytek, same material as the Zebralight ones but larger and more stable.
I have two but they have been out of production for a long time.
If you want I can see if the Armytek hard plastic holder (old models) fit the Zebralight.


----------



## nollij

Stefano said:


> I only use soft rubber holder.
> The best soft rubber mounts are the old Armytek, same material as the Zebralight ones but larger and more stable.
> I have two but they have been out of production for a long time.
> If you want I can see if the Armytek hard plastic holder (old models) fit the Zebralight.


Yes please!


----------



## Stefano

Sorry I'm late, I had to look for the packages. 
Tried an old H602w, Armytek mount fits perfectly. 
I tried initially the Wizard model support (standard) with XPL led and it fits. 
But then I tried the support of the ELF C2 (old model) and it's better (it fits much better, looks more accurate) In addition, the ELF C2 holder has an O-ring that can be used as a safety catch. 
I think all Armytek plastic mounts currently on sale are like the ones from the ELF you see in the picture (with rubber ring as a safety catch) 
I took some pictures but you can still ask a dealer


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## nollij

Stefano said:


> Sorry I'm late, I had to look for the packages.
> Tried an old H602w, Armytek mount fits perfectly.
> I tried initially the Wizard model support (standard) with XPL led and it fits.
> But then I tried the support of the ELF C2 (old model) and it's better (it fits much better, looks more accurate) In addition, the ELF C2 holder has an O-ring that can be used as a safety catch.
> I think all Armytek plastic mounts currently on sale are like the ones from the ELF you see in the picture (with rubber ring as a safety catch)
> I took some pictures but you can still ask a dealer


Thank you!


----------

