# hds stuff at lighthound!



## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

Oh my lord look what he has in stock!


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## ampdude (Jan 21, 2008)

They're gone. I just bought all 99 of them.

So sorry.


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 21, 2008)

:thumbsup:

- Chris


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## FredericoFreire (Jan 21, 2008)

I also found this today. Already placed an order...


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## matthewdanger (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks a million! I was able to pick up a spare tailcap for my beloved Seoulmated U60. Now I am covered just in case.

I have the early "type A" tail cap and that is what I ordered, but are all of the tail caps interchangeable?


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## ambientmind (Jan 21, 2008)

is this stuff interchangeable with the novatacs? please pardon my ignorance...
edit- nevermind, if i read the product descriptions, it tells me! duh!


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

matthewdanger All the caps will fit the hds but the newer ones work better


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## matthewdanger (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks!


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## paxxus (Jan 21, 2008)

OMG :huh: Bought one right away - and some 17670 batteries 

Thanks for the find :thumbsup:


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 21, 2008)

No wonder NovaTac won't support HDS any longer, they just sold all their warranty parts to Lighthound. 

*the preceding is pure speculation, but may be the case*


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## digitaleos (Jan 21, 2008)

17670 body ordered, thanks to Thermal Guy for the heads up.:thumbsup:

Chris


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

OP?


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 21, 2008)

original post or original poster


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks!


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## digitaleos (Jan 21, 2008)

Original poster, oops AKA thermal guy.


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## Oddjob (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks a lot Thermal Guy! I always wanted a 17670 tube.


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## Kid9P (Jan 21, 2008)

Which will have a longer runtime ?

2x123 or 17670 ????


Thanks for everything Thermal !!!!!
Now I own an 18650 and a 2x123/17670 tube


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## louie (Jan 21, 2008)

:thumbsup: TG! Pity the poor fools that read this too late...


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

A U60 on level 1 will run for 95 min before stepdown on a 17650 1500mah
Still looking for the run on 2X123


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## KenAnderson (Jan 21, 2008)

Are the "outside" dimension of the 18650 and the 17650 compartment the same or is the 18650 larger by 1 mm? Can someone measure them please? I'm sure most will know what I'm getting at 

I ordered a 17650 anyway, but wondering if I should get two?

Thanks in advance,

Ken


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

Od of 18650=1.0215 or29.95
Od of 2X123/17670=1.0215 or29.95


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## MikeLip (Jan 21, 2008)

You had me all excited. I thought someone was FINALLY stocking a Twistie!


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## KenAnderson (Jan 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Od of 18650=1.0215 or29.95
> Od of 2X123/17650=1.0215 or29.95


 
Thanks TG,

This means that one could enlarge the 17650 tube to fit a 18650 battery if the spring were enlarged as well. I'm going to give it a try.

Ken


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## Hans (Jan 21, 2008)

*sigh* I've already got two 2x123 bodies ...  Ordered a spare 1x123 tailcap though and a few o-rings. Some bits and pieces ... 

Does anybody know how well the stainless steel bezel rings fit the HDS? I wasn't too sure about them, I've never seen one. 

Hans


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## digitaleos (Jan 21, 2008)

Hans said:


> *sigh* I've already got two 2x123 bodies ...  Ordered a spare 1x123 tailcap though and a few o-rings. Some bits and pieces ...
> 
> Does anybody know how well the stainless steel bezel rings fit the HDS? I wasn't too sure about them, I've never seen one.
> 
> Hans


 

Are you guys ordering the Novatac tailcap, or is there a HDS tailcap available somewhere that I am not seeing? 

Chris


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

When ppl say they are ordering hds tail caps they mean the 1X123 body that the battery goes in. The only cap he has is the end cap that goes on the extra battery tube.


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## THE_dAY (Jan 21, 2008)

hi digitaleos, 

the HDS tailcaps are here:

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=174


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## Well-Lit (Jan 21, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> No wonder NovaTac won't support HDS any longer, they just sold all their warranty parts to Lighthound.
> 
> *the preceding is pure speculation, but may be the case*


 
I totally agree with you, very logical assumption. It appears that NovaTac is out of the HDS parts business.....Period!

Best Regards:
Bob


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## ampdude (Jan 21, 2008)

You may be right, but if this is Novatac stock, why would there be all these different versions of battery tubes. Looks like HDS new old stock to me.

Does it say Novatac parts someplace?


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## Well-Lit (Jan 21, 2008)

It appears that the 1x123 battery tubes for sale are all three older versions where the tail caps are permanently attached to the tubes. I believe. The last revision, with the knurled removable tail cap does not appear to be included in this sale, unless I missed something.

Best Regards:
Bob


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 21, 2008)

HDS turned over all sorts of things, including parts, calibrating equipment, etc. when NovaTac bought the EDC line. This may have included these parts. Given the 'flavor' of NT's recent correspondence regarding support of not only HDS products, but even their own, it wouldn't surprise if they said "the hell with it" and sold off their HDS stuff. Again, I have no facts to support this, it is speculation, but it's also feasible. Maybe this is just a product of my frustration with NT. 

BTW, if not from NT, where else would this surprise stock of HDS stuff come from?


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

Hds wouldn't sell there stock parts if Henry is going to provide warranty work on all old hds lights. He would need them to fix lights that get sent in.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 21, 2008)




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## Groundhog66 (Jan 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Hds wouldn't sell there stock parts if Henry is going to provide warranty work on all old hds lights. He would need them to fix lights that get sent in.



I *think* that when Henry joined NovaTac, he gave them all his stock. Which is why NovaTac ssaid they were going to handle all warranty issues.


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

Me thinks KEN has a lath


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 21, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> I *think* that when Henry joined NovaTac, he gave them all his stock. Which is why NovaTac ssaid they were going to handle all warranty issues.



Yep, that's exactly why Henry made his recent announcement that he would once again support the EDC line, since NT sucks really, really bad. He didn't like the way customers who bought lights with his name on them were being treated, even though he no longer has any official or binding reason to support them. When NT bought the design/lineup, it was supposed to be their baby. Sounds like a case of neglect. :shakehead


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

And if that is the case than they just sold all the parts that Henry could of used to fix our lights.Its to much of a coincidence that the day after Henry released that he would fix our stuff that all these parts go on the market


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## Well-Lit (Jan 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> And if that is the case than they just sold all the parts that Henry could of used to fix our lights.Its to much of a coincidence that the day after Henry released that he would fix our stuff that all these parts go on the market


 
That also brings up the question did NT even *offer *the parts to Henry before giving them to Lighthound to sell. 

Bob


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## 9volt (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks thermal guy, I'm in for a 17670 tube! 

Does anyone know the runtime differences on the 17670 vs the 18650?

PSA: The 2x123s fit on Novatacs but the Novatac head doesn't support 2x123 voltage. 







https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/171551


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

No thanks are needed guys. Just wanted to make sure all us hds nuts had a chance to grab theses before they were all gone . Wonder how many 2X123 tubes lighthound had?


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=98368 
thanks to turbodog


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

You got some nice lights there my friend.


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## Ty_Bower (Jan 21, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> This means that one could enlarge the 17650 tube to fit a 18650 battery if the spring were enlarged as well. I'm going to give it a try.



I suppose you could bore out the tube to fit an 18650. Remember the inside of the tube is anodized as well as the outside. This is critical. If you don't keep the inside of the tube isolated from the (big) spring, the switching mechanism isn't going to work.

Be sure to have the tube anodized again, or paint the inside, or something after you are done machining it.

As far as the spring is concerned, you might be able to simply use the spring as it is. The spring supplied with the 18650 tube was a snug fit around the cell. You had to gently twist the spring onto the cell while turning it in the opposite direction of the spring's winding. This made it open up just enough to slip over the cell.


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## 9volt (Jan 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> You got some nice lights there my friend.



They aren't mine, I borrowed the pic from the thread linked below it. I've got a B42 SSC, a Beta Novatac and now a 17670 tube  







I'm still in shock that these are available hours after your original post. I wonder how many of them Lighthound had in stock...


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## Radio (Jan 21, 2008)

He has 4 less 2x123 tubes now


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## 9volt (Jan 21, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> Thanks TG,
> 
> This means that one could enlarge the 17650 tube to fit a 18650 battery if the spring were enlarged as well. I'm going to give it a try.
> 
> Ken



Wouldn't it be simpler to find a thinner spring?


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

I just tried to put 70 in my cart to see and there wasn't enough! they will be gone in 2 days i bet


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

I just measured the id of both my tubes my 18650 is .795 my 2X123 is .746. i think if you bore out the 2X123 you would be all set as long as the length difference is not the problem


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## 9volt (Jan 21, 2008)

Right now I can put 53 of them in the cart but not 54


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## 9volt (Jan 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> I just measured the id of both my tubes my 18650 is .795 my 2X123 is .746. i think if you bore out the 2X123 you would be all set as long as the length difference is not the problem



Is the 18650 tube longer or shorter? Do you think a thinner spring would work?


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## ampdude (Jan 21, 2008)

9volt said:


> Right now I can put 53 of them in the cart but not 54




Yup, about half are gone already. 

They may have more than the 100 that were originally listed for sale though. Never know..


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## 9volt (Jan 21, 2008)

ampdude said:


> They may have more than the 100 that were originally listed for sale though. Never know..



How do you know they had 100 originally? Just curious.


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## sawlight (Jan 21, 2008)

I was thinking the 2x123 tube would ROCK!!! But the not so fine print "Novatac does not support 6 volts, this will blow you're light up and void the warranty" kind of scares me off

And I love the "cool factor" of having a single for a spare battery carrier, I think I can come up with something a bit smaller and a lot cheaper!!!
Very nice find TG!!! Thanks for sharing


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## Ty_Bower (Jan 21, 2008)

9volt said:


> How do you know they had 100 originally? Just curious.



I think someone is confused. The were only 100 of the 18650 prototypes built.

I imagine there were more of the 2x123 tubes made. I'm not sure if anyone has any idea how many Lighthound received in this batch.

The 18650 tube is a little bit shorter than the 2x123 tube, but I don't think it's shorter enough to be a problem.

Good luck trying to find a thinner spring that will allow an 18650 cell to fit inside the 2x123 tube. The clearance is mighty close even in the 18650 tube. You really need that extra .05 on the inner diameter.


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

My 18650 battery is .715 OD my 2X123 tube is .747 id the difference is .032.
so divide by 2 and you would need a spring that has .015 wire. Not sure that would be real strong my 18650 tube is 2.803 in my 2X123 is 2.940 in so the length is whats going to be the big problem.


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## turbodog (Jan 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=98368
> thanks to turbodog



Wow.

Can't believe someone dug it up.


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## turbodog (Jan 21, 2008)

As to the source of lighthound's hds/novatac gear.....

Oh what short memories we have....

I've noticed twice that he has held onto arc/hds lights and then sold them right when the price went through the roof, just as it recently has now again.

I mean really..... an 18650 tube just went for $225($250?) the other day.

I figure he's been sitting on it for a while.


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## thermal guy (Jan 21, 2008)

Dug it up! I have it as a shortcut on my desktop. You do great work man:thumbsup:


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## 9volt (Jan 21, 2008)

turbodog said:


> I've noticed twice that he has held onto arc/hds lights and then sold them right when the price went through the roof, just as it recently has now again.



At least he's giving us a nice price on the stuff :twothumbs


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## :)> (Jan 21, 2008)

I just picked up a couple. Joy!


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## bagman (Jan 22, 2008)

I know you cant use the 2 x 123tube with the Novatac's with 2 x 123's but what about a 17670?


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## NoFair (Jan 22, 2008)

bagman said:


> I know you cant use the 2 x 123tube with the Novatac's with 2 x 123's but what about a 17670?


 
That should be fine voltage wise. 

Snagged me a 2 cr123 tube today Thanks for the headsup

Sverre


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## bagman (Jan 22, 2008)

I picked up a 17670 tube to go with my 60GT plus a new 120P  (must try that with it as well )


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## FredericoFreire (Jan 22, 2008)

Only 33 2xCR123 tubes left!

I bet that tomorrow they will be gone.


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## Katdaddy (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh Joy, Oh Happiness!!! I managed to screw up the switch on my basic 60 last week trying to fix it. This couldn't have come at a better time!! Thanks for the heads up.


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## KenAnderson (Jan 22, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> ...my 18650 tube is 2.803 in my 2X123 is 2.940 in so the length is whats going to be the big problem.


 
TG, I don't believe the length should be an issue here. The 2x123 tube is a bit longer to allow it to load two 123 cells but it is still designed to hold a 65 mm long cell as well (both the 18650 and the 17650 are the same length. As far as insulating the body from the spring, I would think it would be as simple as putting a piece of paper between the spring and the tube. An insulating coating is also possible. If this works, it would allow a body that could take a 17650 or 18650 or two 123s. The only real question that remains for me is whether the existing spring can be enlarged or another needs to be made. I contacted a spring maker and was told they can make me an appropriate sized spring for about $15.

A universal tube is looking very likely at this point.

Ken


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## KenAnderson (Jan 22, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> The only real question that remains for me is whether the existing spring can be enlarged or another needs to be made.
> 
> A universal tube is looking very likely at this point.


 
I just checked the springs on my HDS 123 tubes and they do fit over an 18650. Snug, but they slide fine. I twisted one of my extra springs in a direction that would open it up a bit and it worked fine. It slid smoothly over the 18650 with little effort. It's kinda looking like the mod will require enlarging the inside dia of the 17650 tube by 1 mm and inserting a wrap of paper to insulate the spring. Doesn't seem like much else is needed. Lighthound shipped my order today so I should know by the end of the week. I suspect these tubes will be out of stock by then.

Ken


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## RGB_LED (Jan 22, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Oh my lord look what he has in stock!


Thanks for the head's up thermal guy, :thumbsup:I ordered one last night after seeing this thread. I've always wanted an 18650 tube for my HDS U60 but I'll settle for a 17670 tube as I have those batteries lying around too. Now, all I have to do have my HDS modded with a Seoul and it will once again be my edc light. :naughty:


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## tebore (Jan 22, 2008)

I hate you guys. I read this thread and I figured that the number of tubes I order yesterday wasn't enough. So I ordered more for today.


Now I got more tubes than lights. You know what this means now I gotta look for more HDS EDCs.


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## KenAnderson (Jan 22, 2008)

Hmmm...looks like turbodog tested a Novatac 120p with a 17650 tube. I didn't think these were supposed to work with the Novatacs...??? I know we're not supposed to run 2 x 123 because the voltage is too high, but apprarently a 17650 battery is fine.

Ken

:thinking:

120p light
level 1
93F water
1500mah *17650* batterystation protected li-ion
2x123 tube

140 min runtime before stepdown!!!


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## 9volt (Jan 22, 2008)

They fit on the Novatacs. It's ok to use 17670 and very bad to use 2x123 with a Novatac.

Also, the battery you want to use is a 17670, not a 17650.


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## KenAnderson (Jan 22, 2008)

Right you are 9v,

Just checked AW's battery thread:

Protected 17670 ( 1600mAH ) ---- $10.00 each **Upgraded New *Button Top Cell*

Can' wait to test em...

Ken


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## Cuso (Jan 22, 2008)

Just got me one of them tubes before they are gone...Now who did the review on the Novatac with the 17670 tube?? Is there a link to it??


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## 9volt (Jan 22, 2008)

This?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=171551


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## KenAnderson (Jan 22, 2008)

Also in this link, turbodog shows runtime with various batteries in HDS and Novatac.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=98368


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## Well-Lit (Jan 22, 2008)

Does anyone remember an HDS thread about a year ago that when using the 2x123 tube with a 17670, an unprotected battery should be used instead of a protected battery? Something to do about over compression of the spring by a few mm's? 

All I can remember now is that I purposely bought a couple of unprotected 17670's for my tube back then because of that thread. Don't know how it would relate using the 2x123/17670 in the Novatac...I have searched but have not been able to find it. 

Best Regards:
Bob


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## KenAnderson (Jan 22, 2008)

Well-Lit said:


> Does anyone remember an HDS thread about a year ago that when using the 2x123 tube with a 17670, an unprotected battery should be used instead of a protected battery? Something to do about over compression of the spring by a few mm's?
> 
> All I can remember now is that I purposely bought a couple of unprotected 17670's for my tube back then because of that thread. Don't know how it would relate using the 2x123/17670 in the Novatac...I have searched but have not been able to find it.
> 
> ...


 
Bob, the HDS EDC lights were designed with an intelligent circuit that worked well with the unprotected batteries. It seems to have no problem with AW's RCR123 which are protected though. Not sure if this is what you are referring to or not.

Ken


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## Well-Lit (Jan 22, 2008)

Ken: Thanks for the reply. My memory is bad, but I believe the thread was pointing out that protected 17670's, especially those with a button tab, were a little too long in the 2x123 tube and was causing over compression of the spring. After the smoke cleared, the general consensus was that it would probabaly be better to use unprotected 17670's, which supposedly were a few mm's shorter.

Man I wish I could find that thread!

Bob


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## cave dave (Jan 22, 2008)

Well-Lit said:


> Something to do about over compression of the spring by a few mm's?



He was talking about the protected being a tad bit longer.

PS 10 avail but not 15, as of 5:45 eastern. I ordered one, I didn't want to be a parts hog or flipper like some people


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## KenAnderson (Jan 22, 2008)

Well-Lit said:


> Ken: Thanks for the reply. My memory is bad, but I believe the thread was pointing out that protected 17670's, especially those with a button tab, were a little too long in the 2x123 tube and was causing over compression of the spring. After the smoke cleared, the general consensus was that it would probabaly be better to use unprotected 17670's, which supposedly were a few mm's shorter.
> 
> Man I wish I could find that thread!
> 
> Bob


 
Gotcha...I ordered a couple of unprotected cells to test and plan on opening up one of the tubes to test an 18650 as well.

Should be interesting...

Ken


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## FredericoFreire (Jan 22, 2008)

Only 18 2xCR123 tubes left!


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## Well-Lit (Jan 22, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> Gotcha...I ordered a couple of unprotected cells to test and plan on opening up one of the tubes to test an 18650 as well.
> 
> Should be interesting...
> 
> Ken


 
Ken: More than interesting! Please keep us up to date on this project. Those of us who are hopelessly mechaincally challenged, like myself, will obviously need step by step directions! 

Thanks:
Bob


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## cave dave (Jan 22, 2008)

from:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=126246



HDS_Systems said:


> Allow me to clarify what batteries go into which battery case.
> 
> There is an international standard for battery length, both overall and contact-to-contact - they are NOT always the same. The specification includes tolerances of the various dimensions. The battery case must be designed to accommodate the shortest possible combination and the longest possible combination. The spring must be designed to generate sufficient force for the shortest combination and not be over compressed by the longest combination.
> 
> ...



PS I measured my protected AW 17670 button top at 68.5 mm :twothumbs


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## Well-Lit (Jan 22, 2008)

cave dave: Thank you so much for finding it. Henry did give us the benchmark length for each battery case. AW's are good to go!

Thanks Again:
Bob


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## KenAnderson (Jan 22, 2008)

Only 12 2xCR123 tubes left!


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## matrixshaman (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm surprised they were not all gone yesterday - probably due to the Christmas 'burnout and we're overspent' scenario that some people are in - especially those with Flashaholism


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## Cuso (Jan 22, 2008)

Thanks for the links guys, Im glad I snagged one of those tubes..


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## KenAnderson (Jan 23, 2008)

Only 3 2xCR123 tubes remain instock at lighthound.


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## 9volt (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm so tempted to buy a couple more, i wish they would just sell out!


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## mraymer (Jan 23, 2008)

turbodog said:


> As to the source of lighthound's hds/novatac gear.....
> 
> Oh what short memories we have....
> 
> ...



I've seen the 18650 tubes go for at least $200 when I've seen them available. If they were sitting on these 2x123 waiting to make some $$$ then I think they would have charged more. They typically sell for anywhere from 2 to 3 times what Lighthound is charging. They could have sold them at $75, which would have been a bargain compared to what they go for here on B/S/T and people still would have bought them. Cheers to Lighthound for offering these at a very reasonable price, below original MSRP even! Though, now that the market has been flooded, I don't believe you're going to see them selling for $125 to $175 on B/S/T. Unless someone is desperate for one and didn't snag one of the last three remaining. It is tempting isn't it?


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## FredericoFreire (Jan 23, 2008)

John updated the stock quantity to 99 2xCR123 tubes again!

For the people that didn't grab one, this is the 2nd chance.


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## iNDiGLo (Jan 23, 2008)

*


Kid9P said:



Which will have a longer runtime ?

2x123 or 17670 ????


Thanks for everything Thermal !!!!!
Now I own an 18650 and a 2x123/17670 tube 

Click to expand...

*

I haven't read this entire thread but please make sure if you buy one of the 17670 tubes that you don't use it with 2 x 123s or you will destroy your Novatac. The input voltage on the Novatac lights is 1.8 to 4.5v. So you can use a 3.7v li-ion 17670 just fine but not 2 of anything. You have been warned! :wave:


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## FredericoFreire (Jan 23, 2008)

iNDiGLo said:


> I haven't read this entire thread but please make sure if you buy one of the 17670 tubes that you don't use it with 2 x 123s or you will destroy your Novatac. The input voltage on the Novatac lights is 1.8 to 4.5v. So you can use a 3.7v li-ion 17670 just fine but not 2 of anything. You have been warned! :wave:



That's what Lighthound says on the description of the procuct.


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## Kid9P (Jan 23, 2008)

FredericoFreire said:


> John updated the stock quantity to 99 2xCR123 tubes again!
> 
> For the people that didn't grab one, this is the 2nd chance.



I wonder if they have any old HDS lights lying around that will pop up for sale.


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## tebore (Jan 23, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> I wonder if they have any old HDS lights lying around that will pop up for sale.



They did a while ago. Chances are they might have 1 or 2 left.


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## 9volt (Jan 23, 2008)

FWIW they don't have any 18650s or knurled 123s.


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## Ty_Bower (Jan 23, 2008)

FredericoFreire said:


> John updated the stock quantity to 99 2xCR123 tubes again!
> 
> For the people that didn't grab one, this is the 2nd chance.



You guys are killing me. 

I sold off all my 18650 tubes a long time ago. My HDS is often carried as my EDC light. As such, I prefer it to be small. The 18650 tubes made it longer than I felt was convenient for day carry. I didn't often find myself in a position where I needed the extra runtime. If knew I was going to need runtime, I'd just grab a different light.

Now the 2x123 tubes are up for sale again, and I feel like I miss something I once had. You guys are bad. Must resist... :mecry:


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## Oddjob (Jan 23, 2008)

If the stock was updated again it seems that maybe since HDS is going to honour warranties that somehow Henry or John was able to get some tubes machined. I find it hard to believe that there was just 200 of these lying around when they could have been sold off long ago. Just speculation but I am happy regardless of why or how it is happening.


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## tebore (Jan 23, 2008)

Oddjob said:


> If the stock was updated again it seems that maybe since HDS is going to honour warranties that somehow Henry or John was able to get some tubes machined. I find it hard to believe that there was just 200 of these lying around when they could have been sold off long ago. Just speculation but I am happy regardless of why or how it is happening.



But then how do you explain the 123 tubes that are the really old types?


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## AnimalHousePA (Jan 23, 2008)

This really makes me regret selling five of my HDS lights...At least I have one left...I hope I get my 17670 tube tomorrow!


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## Cypher (Jan 24, 2008)

Got my 17670 tube today. 

It rocks. 

That is all.


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## Well-Lit (Jan 24, 2008)

Would someone be kind enough to go to the Manufac's corner in the HDS-120 thread and read Henrys post #192. Is it just me or does it sound a little disturbing that those of us who have purchased any of the 1x123 HDS tubes on sale at the Hound, might have come from a rejects/returns bin? 

I have one on the way. Not trying to stir the pot, but I have to admit, it's something to think about and raises some concern. Your take on that post would be most welcome.

Best Regards:
Bob


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## 9volt (Jan 24, 2008)

I bet if you get one and it doesn't work that Lighthound will replace it.


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## KenAnderson (Jan 24, 2008)

Well-Lit said:


> ...Is it just me or does it sound a little disturbing that those of us who have purchased any of the 1x123 HDS tubes on sale at the Hound, might have come from a rejects/returns bin?
> ...Best Regards:
> Bob


 
Bob, if I read Henry's post correctly, that's exactly what he's saying. He does not state this is the case, but implies that it might be. If it turns out to be the case, it's certainly cause for concern for folks...

Ken


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## KenAnderson (Jan 24, 2008)

9volt said:


> I bet if you get one and it doesn't work that Lighthound will replace it.


 
Likely true...good point.


----------



## Oddjob (Jan 24, 2008)

tebore said:


> But then how do you explain the 123 tubes that are the really old types?


 
You are right but I was just talking about the 17670 tubes. I'm just trying to figure out where they all came from. :thinking:


----------



## matrixshaman (Jan 24, 2008)

Posted this in the HDS thread to on CPFM - hoping someone else has gotten their tubes and has info on this: See my reply below this message as all seems fine now. 
I got 2 tubes today from Lighthound. Barely had a chance to test but here's what I found and I'm a bit confused so far. I put 2 standard CR123 batteries in each tube and put them on my newer HDS. One tube did nothing at all - no light - NADA. The other tube lit up the LED but no control functions at all and I could not turn the light off. I then put it on the Novatac with a 17670 and everything worked fine. I only had a couple minutes to play with it but that's where it's at as of early this afternoon. Anyone else got them yet and tried on their HDS? Not sure if we should be discussing this here or maybe start a separate thread but I'm hoping Henry may have some inight on this. It does look like they may have been proto's or? Maybe Henry would have some ideas on a fix for them in case this is typical. It could however just be me as I have just finished work and will now take time to really see what's going on with these as I didn't have time during lunch.


----------



## matrixshaman (Jan 24, 2008)

While I'm thinking about this does anyone know if the HDS can take 2 x RCR123's - that is 2 x 3.6 volt batteries - and if not how about 2 x 3.0 volt LiFePO4's that are typically 3.2 volt under load or the protected ones that are supposed to drop to about 3.0 volt. 

- Also I just made my second try - this time with newer batteries and a bit more care and everything is working fine with the 2x 123 tube #1 on the HDS. I've yet to try the 2nd one. I'll check the other one shortly...
- OK - Both are working fine now with no problems on my newer HDS - and I assume all will be fine with my other HDS too. Must have been a bad battery earlier or just in too much of a hurry.


----------



## Russki (Jan 24, 2008)

Got my tube today, works fine, good staff.





If you tube don’t work, make sure spring is reaching both sides switch and LE.


----------



## KenAnderson (Jan 24, 2008)

When your tubes were delivered, is it just a tube, or a tube and spring, or a tube +spring+one cap?


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## Cypher (Jan 24, 2008)

If it does end up that there is something wrong with the 1x123 tubes I wouldn't worry too much. Lighthound states that he will personally warranty the tubes for one year from the date of purchase. If there is something wrong you'd probably know within a year. 

Nevertheless, I do see your point and it would kind of stink to get secondhand parts thinking they were new.


----------



## Well-Lit (Jan 24, 2008)

OK: I'm getting the same positive results as Matrixshaman. Before I did anything, I took the tc off the 2x123 tube and it was very dry. So dry, that it squeaked as I took it off. A quick pass with the Deoxit pen and a q-tip along with some silicon grease on the o-ring and all was good to go.

First up was my U60. I used two new SF 123's and ran through the levels I had set, then on, off, etc. No problems. Next I inserted a blue fully charged *un*-ptotected 17670 and repeated the sequence. Again, no problems. 

Next I put the tube with the 17670 on my NT 120P and did the same thing, including ramping. No problems at all. Think I'll try an AW 17670 next.

Best Regards:
Bob


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## matrixshaman (Jan 24, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> When your tubes were delivered, is it just a tube, or a tube and spring, or a tube +spring+one cap?



Hey Ken - it's a tube, spring and one cap per order - and by cap I mean the tail switch - not the cap to enclose it by itself as some use it as a battery holder. I didn't buy the cap to enclose it - just to add to my HDS and it's complete for that.


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## Well-Lit (Jan 24, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> When your tubes were delivered, is it just a tube, or a tube and spring, or a tube +spring+one cap?


 
Ken: I received the tube, spring and tail cap (flat tail-standing). No protective cap on the other end. That has to be purchased separately, which I did.

Bob

oops: already answered.......


----------



## Radio (Jan 24, 2008)

Actually it's a "Case" read the description on Lighthound and your receipt and they came with the cap originally, looks like someone split them up, This case only comes with one end, the switch, no cap


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## KenAnderson (Jan 24, 2008)

Hey, thanks for the response guys. I was hoping for as much, but ordered extra springs and caps as well. Very good reports so far. Does sound like new/old stock and nice to hear that they work on the Novatac as well.

Ken


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## Well-Lit (Jan 24, 2008)

I have no way to confirm this, other than by my unqualified observational skills, but I just examined both the new "2x123" case I just received with my "older" tube, which I purchased well over a year ago? After examination, they look virtually identical, right down to the anno color.

Bob


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## tebore (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm sure these tubes are not new as in new batch. They are just NOS. 

First thing you should do with these tubes is to clean, grease and deoxit them. I know that one of my Knurled 123 battery cases had some anno on the ends thus distrupting contact. 

The HDS doesn't work with RCR123s just CR123s. 8.4v is over the limit of the head. If you use it the light will light up in a dim limp home mode.


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## louie (Jan 24, 2008)

Just received my 2x123 and single type C cases. After cleaning, grease and Deoxit, they both work fine. They generally appear fine, although if you are very picky, the single tube has a bit of variable color to the ano on the button cap, and the very end of the 2X threads are a teeny bit rough. The ano doesn't match the dark green of my older light, but we know HA is like that. Note that the switch cap on the 2X tube comes right off. If I can just get the smooth switch cap off the single tube, I can put together a single all knurled case.

I figure the weakest part of the light is the button, so I hope I'm covered.


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## mraymer (Jan 24, 2008)

Good luck getting the smooth switch off of the body. I've been trying with no luck. It was suggested to me to try and wrap the tail in an ice pack for a while and then put it boiling water and then immediately try to separate them. I don't know what was used to bond these pieces together, but it's tough. Some type of loctite or epoxy. I've been twisting and turning with strap wrenches and can't get it to move. Let us know if you're able to get them apart and what method you used.


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 24, 2008)

I gotta look into boring out my tube to fit an 18650. I have a 17670, but have a few 18650.
KenAnderson, What spring company did you talk to?



KenAnderson said:


> 140 min runtime before stepdown!!!


Sweeeet! I ordered a tube today. Thought I might be too late, but I got it.


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## FredericoFreire (Jan 25, 2008)

The HDS Case Cap is no longer avaliable!


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## KenAnderson (Jan 25, 2008)

Blindasabat said:


> I gotta look into boring out my tube to fit an 18650. I have a 17670, but have a few 18650.
> KenAnderson, What spring company did you talk to?
> 
> 
> Sweeeet! I ordered a tube today. Thought I might be too late, but I got it.


 
My tubes showed up yesterday and the spring is the same one used in the 18650 tubes so no need to replace it. I ordered a couple of extra springs to go with my tubes but now see that I won't need them.

I believe boring out the 17670 tube should work to allow 18650 use. What a nice find...

Ken


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## cave dave (Jan 25, 2008)

Arrived today. O-rings were dry as a bone. I lubed it up and used deoxit and progold on the contacts while I was waiting for the 17670 to charge up. Works great. There seems to be lots of extra wiggle room around the 17670. Maybe even a millimeter. I don't own one, but has anybody just tried to put in 18650 in there? Take spring out, wrap around 18650 and put both back in.


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## RPM (Jan 25, 2008)

Got my 1x123 (version C) and 2x123 bodies from LH yesterday... both work great. Much better than the original HDS tail. I have one of the first HDS ultimate 60's and the press on the tail was way too hard. These newer switches are real nice... renews my liking for this light. The larger body tail stands nicely also. Happy camper here.


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## Cypher (Jan 25, 2008)

Cave Dave, I did try to put the 18650 in the spring and then put the spring in the tube and it didn't fit. It was a protected cell. I could try an unprotected cell for fun but I still don't think it would fit. It wasn't really even close to going in.


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## matrixshaman (Jan 25, 2008)

I tried 4 different brand 18650's from very old Sony's to new ones from DX and an A123 cell in the 18650 size. All were very very close to fitting. I'd say you could probably hone this tube out just a tiny amount and get one to fit. I personally don't think I'll bother for the extra minutes runtime although I do have a lot more 18650's than 17670's but just thinking I'd rather not disturb the inside coating on the tube. Either way these are a really sweet deal.
As I wrote this I had another thought. The 18650's by their self fit fine in the tube. It is just a little too tight though with the spring in there. I currently don't have access to my digital micrometer but I'm wondering if the spring itself could be sanded down on a belt sander just enough to make this work. I think that might be easier than finding an exact fit for this. Just a thought...


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## yaesumofo (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

Hey guys I received my HDS NOS today.
What I find curious is why these parts weren't sold long ago.
I remember clearly kicking myself for NOT buyting an extension tube for my HDS lights when they were available and at a reasonable price.
I regret that decision for a long time. When ever I saw one of these tubes (18650) I was floored by sticker shock...Every time. The 18650 tubes have been selling for big $$.
Anyway Under $50 for a 17670 version from the factory with a vastly improved switch really is a no brainer.
I picked one up along with a nice new aw cell for it and a cap. I got a free zipper pull flashlight to boot.
In terms of using the 18650 cell in there mine don't fit with the stock spring. a slightly thinner material spring would and the 18650 battery may work.
IN any event I don't really care if I can't use an 18650 cell I have a 17670 and it worked great. One of these days they will bump up the capacity of the 17670 cell which at 1600 seems a little weak. 
I would love for somebody to point to the runtime charts for these cells 2X cr123 vs rcr123 vs 17670 vs 18650. Lets face it the difference in size between the single cell body with a cr123a (primary) and the 17670 is pretty huge. the runtime difference may not be that huge..I don't know.
The runtime with a 17670 1600 ma cell should be pretty darn good.
There is no doubt that HDS really did a good job on the manufacturing of these parts.
HDS also backed up their stuff too.
I had a switch which was intermittent Henry sent me a new one and did not want the old one back.
It is hard for me to imagine that these are factory seconds. All the parts I received look and operate fine.
I appreciate the fact that HDS did not create a secondary market for their "seconds" like ARC did. IMHO selling seconds dilutes the market with what may be lower quality parts and is not a smart thing.
Peter had a whole racket going on the arc seconds. Bad idea.
Lighthound is backing up these parts and that is good enough for me.
At this point I am stoked that I now have the extension tube for my collection. NO not every one of my HDS lights will get their own tube. I don't really need that many of them one is enough and will be shared.
I also installed the tube on my novatac and was very satisfied that it works just fine with the 17670 cell.
I do have a single criticism and I suspect this is the primary reason that these did not become a big hit.
The longer length of the light changes the balance for the worse. IMHO a light of this length really should have a larger reflector. this will fit the hand better and balance better..
I would like to suggest to all of you who have one or more 19mm based light that you buy the HDS bezel removal tool and kit which comes with some diffusion and a spare front lens (at least I seem to remember it did). As a tool this is a great value since it is designed to remove the bezel ring with out damaging anything and making it easy. This tool works on any flashlight with this type of bezel like the aleph series of lights. The diffusion kit is really cool too. 
OK that's it. I am going out into the darkness to see how long (roughly ) the light will run on a 17670.
Yaesumofo


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## cave dave (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

Mybe you could use something other than a circular spring to fit in a 18650. Like the 18650 would sit off to the side and then a stiff wire would run up the other side from tailcap to head. :thinking:


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## iSleep (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

Hearing that the HDS and NovaTac having the same family ... erm ... DNA 
sure is a good thing. But will *every* part of both lights interchange with one another ? It seems like a good idea to stock up on parts now ... with all of them available ...


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## cave dave (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



iSleep said:


> But will *every* part of both lights interchange with one another ? It seems like a good idea to stock up on parts now ... with all of them available ...


No, the Novatac bodies won't work on HDS lights. Also I think the HDS light engine won't fit into the Novatac. The clips are also not interchangable, not sure about reflectors and such.


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## tebore (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



cave dave said:


> No, the Novatac bodies won't work on HDS lights. Also I think the HDS light engine won't fit into the Novatac. The clips are also not interchangable, not sure about reflectors and such.



None of the Novatac parts will work with the HDS at least not 100%. Some of the HDS battery tubes will work with the Novatac assuming you use the right battery. The lights are 2 completely different lights even though they might look similar.


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## yaesumofo (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

The HDS 17670/2 cell (don't use 2 cells!!!!) fits and works the Novatac head no problem.
Yaesumofo




tebore said:


> None of the Novatac parts will work with the HDS at least not 100%. Some of the HDS battery tubes will work with the Novatac assuming you use the right battery. The lights are 2 completely different lights even though they might look similar.


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## iSleep (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

I was thinking of using the Novatac 120P LE + HDS 17670 Battery tube + Novatac Tactical Tailcap ... anyone tried this ?


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## tebore (Jan 26, 2008)

Some of the old stuff fits the new NT but the new stuff won't work properly on the old HDS.


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## boosterboy (Jan 26, 2008)

got my HDS Tube today

i put my novatac 120T head on and everything works fine with AW's black protected 17670s

all functions work fine


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## iSleep (Jan 26, 2008)

boosterboy said:


> got my HDS Tube today
> 
> i put my novatac 120T head on and everything works fine with AW's black protected 17670s
> 
> all functions work fine



OK ... Thats good ~ 
Time to flash the card ...


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## KenAnderson (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



iSleep said:


> I was thinking of using the Novatac 120P LE + HDS 17670 Battery tube + Novatac Tactical Tailcap ... anyone tried this ?


 
Like this one? Novatac 120p with new Novatac clip and 17670 tube and tactical clickie and a couple of Novatac grip rings. Works like a dream.


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## Patriot (Jan 26, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> No wonder NovaTac won't support HDS any longer, they just sold all their warranty parts to Lighthound.
> 
> *the preceding is pure speculation, but may be the case*



That's the same thing I was thinking........


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## 9volt (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



tebore said:


> None of the Novatac parts will work with the HDS at least not 100%. Some of the HDS battery tubes will work with the Novatac assuming you use the right battery. The lights are 2 completely different lights even though they might look similar.



The Novatac bezel and lens will work on an HDS.


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## 9volt (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

I was thinking along the same lines as cavedave in regards to the 18650s. Maybe a single wire bent at either end to contact the tail and the head.


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## paxxus (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



yaesumofo said:


> Hey guys I received my HDS NOS today.
> What I find curious is why these parts weren't sold long ago.


Henry mentioned over at CPFMP that they couldn't make the springs work reliably. Even though they might work most of the time my guess is that Henry would not release anything for sale unless he is 100% confident in the performance. But maybe NovaTac could get the springs to work :thinking:

Anyway, the 2x123 springs displayed on the LH site has got me thinking.

HDS 1x123 spring:
|/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\|

NovaTac 1x123 spring:
|\/\|||/\/|||/\/|

LH site 2x123 spring:
|/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|

2x123 spring to get same springiness as NovaTac 1x123 spring:
|\/\||||||||||/\/||||||||||/\/|

Legend:
Non-compressible unstretched spring: ||||||
Compressible stretched spring: /\/\/\/

I assume that the NovaTac spring included the two ||| sections in order to get more contact pressure, so unless the LH 2x123 spring is made of a much harder material the 2x123 is going to have much less contact pressure. This may get unreliable operation and could be the culprit of the problems Henry mentions.

Knowing very well that I'm being an armchair designer here, I wonder what the problem was with getting the 2x123 springs to work. Just extend the non-compressible sections on the 2x123 spring (as I have displayed above) and it should have the same contact pressure and be as reliable as the NovaTac 1x123 spring.


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## DM51 (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

2x123 spring:
|/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|

2x123 spring after you’ve tried to fit 1x18650 into it:
l l l/&%X-$Z&-X£/?(\l l l

LOL


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## iSleep (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



KenAnderson said:


> Like this one? Novatac 120p with new Novatac clip and 17670 tube and tactical clickie and a couple of Novatac grip rings. Works like a dream.



Ahem ~

*lil jon mode on*
*YEAH ~ *
*lil jon mode off*

Man that looks wonderful ... How i wish my pay would latch in faster ...

Is that a HDS tactical or NovaTac tactical switch ?
Is it a Protected or unprotected battery inside ?


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## KenAnderson (Jan 26, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



iSleep said:


> Ahem ~
> 
> *lil jon mode on*
> *YEAH ~ *
> ...


 
That's the NovaTac tactical and I'm running AW's protected 17670's. Also note the "Ice Blue" trits in the tac bezel.

Here's a couple more shots of the 120p along with my HDS U60GT modded with Seoul P4 and sporting a 17670 tube, grip rings, Novatac black bezel and a frosted diffuser. My current best night light with that perfectly blended beam. A beautiful wall of light.










Enjoy,

Ken


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## LouRoy (Jan 26, 2008)

Speaking of springs, I just got my 17670 tube yesterday. If I turn the light (Novatac 120P) on and set it down on the tailcap hard (or tap the bottom of the light with my hand), the light goes dimmer and then turns off completely in less than a second. Anyone else observe this??

I haven't tried this yet with my HDS B42 or with the single cell battery holder. 

So don't drop your light in the complete darkness--you may not be able to find it! :nana:


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## cave dave (Jan 26, 2008)

Many lights will loose contact if you set them down hard.

Protected or unprotected 17670? I notice the protected fits a bit tighter. FWIW, a med hard tap does not do this on my tube with unprotected cell.


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## KenAnderson (Jan 26, 2008)

LouRoy said:


> Speaking of springs, I just got my 17670 tube yesterday. If I turn the light (Novatac 120P) on and set it down on the tailcap hard (or tap the bottom of the light with my hand), the light goes dimmer and then turns off completely in less than a second. Anyone else observe this??
> 
> I haven't tried this yet with my HDS B42 or with the single cell battery holder.
> 
> So don't drop your light in the complete darkness--you may not be able to find it! :nana:


 
The spring acts as part of the switch in the HDS and Novatac lights. It makes an unbroken connection between the tail switch and the light engine spring contact ring. If the light is dropped and if the battery does not slide within the spring, then the weight of the battery could cause the spring to compress on one end and disconnect from the other momentarilly. In effect setting off the switch. If multiple bumps of the spring/contact are made, then it's like pressing your switch multiple times quickly.

ken


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## tpchan (Jan 26, 2008)

Would some kind CPF'er please measure their newly received HDS 17670 tube + flat tailcap from Lighthound? I'd like to know the overall length when using these tubes with the 120P head. Thanks in advance!


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## LouRoy (Jan 26, 2008)

The length of mine (120P head when assembled to 17670 tube) is 119mm (aka 4 and 11/16 for us US types).


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## louie (Jan 26, 2008)

tpchan said:


> Would some kind CPF'er please measure their newly received HDS 17670 tube + flat tailcap from Lighthound? I'd like to know the overall length when using these tubes with the 120P head. Thanks in advance!



Mine measures 3.116 inch (79.13mm). That's the entire length.


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## LouRoy (Jan 26, 2008)

louie said:


> Mine measures 3.116 inch (79.13mm). That's the entire length.



The length I gave is of the 17670 tube and the light when assembled together. You are correct, the tube by itself is the measurement that you listed.


----------



## louie (Jan 26, 2008)

mraymer said:


> Good luck getting the smooth switch off of the body. I've been trying with no luck. It was suggested to me to try and wrap the tail in an ice pack for a while and then put it boiling water and then immediately try to separate them. I don't know what was used to bond these pieces together, but it's tough. Some type of loctite or epoxy. I've been twisting and turning with strap wrenches and can't get it to move. Let us know if you're able to get them apart and what method you used.



Success! I removed my smooth switch cap from my 1x123 type C with no damage. I may have just been lucky, so I don't know whether these steps are all required, and YMMV as they say.

I used my bicycle repair stand as a no-mar tubing vise. I cut off a few inches from the strap wrench to surround the cap.





I heated it with the hot air gun. It got hot enough to be too hot to touch, but I wanted to avoid burning the rubber, etc.





After cooling, it still didn't move, so I squeezed it in a vise. I was hoping to crack some of the threadlocker. I put the cap in the rubber and did a couple of very firm squeezes.





Still no go, so I whacked the perimeter several times with a soft mallet - the strap wrench.





Finally, using the strap wrench with 2 hands in a certain way, it started to move, then came off.





It looks like red Loctite, not epoxy as I know it as Henry has mentioned. The end spring board and button switch/rubber is not attached into the cap like on the knurled caps, therefore you risk losing the parts if you take off a smooth cap. The knurled cap appears to have the end spring board glued into the cap, and so also doesn't quite screw down as far.





I've used an Xacto knife blade to clean the threads of the Loctite, a toothbrush to clean, then grease and Deoxit, and now I'm a happy camper with a 2x123 tube with a smooth tailcap, and a 1x123 D! As a bonus, when I reassembled the smooth cap, I seem to have gotten it to tailstand much better!


----------



## DM51 (Jan 26, 2008)

Good work, and excellent pics. I hope the heat hasn't damaged any of the rubber parts.


----------



## tebore (Jan 26, 2008)

Ah so my assumptions have been proven I can't wait till my C style caps come with my 17670 tubes come then i can make Knurled tails.

P.S. gotta love that red loctite.


----------



## mraymer (Jan 26, 2008)

I've tried with no success. Even took some advice here, put it in the freezer surrounded by a cold wrap, took it out and immediately heated it up. Still wouldn't budge. I asked what was used to bond these pieces together and Henry said epoxy. I assumed this was something along the lines of JB Weld which is a compound that bonds like steel and doesn't break down until it reaches somewhere between 500 to 700 degrees. Yours does appear to have red loctite. Maybe I need to heat mine more, but was afraid of damaging the actual switch and rubber components.


----------



## tebore (Jan 26, 2008)

mraymer said:


> I've tried with no success. Even took some advice here, put it in the freezer surrounded by a cold wrap, took it out and immediately heated it up. Still wouldn't budge. I asked what was used to bond these pieces together and Henry said epoxy. I assumed this was something along the lines of JB Weld which is a compound that bonds like steel and doesn't break down until it reaches somewhere between 500 to 700 degrees. Yours does appear to have red loctite. Maybe I need to heat mine more, but was afraid of damaging the actual switch and rubber components.



Red loctite is tough stuff. Many times I had bust out a blow torch to crack it on an engine or some other part of a car. 

You might have to cycle at the temps a few times to get it to crack. Right now it's -20 degrees I plan on leaving it outside overnight then hit it with boiling hot water then going at it with the strap wrenches. If it doesn't work repeat.


----------



## louie (Jan 26, 2008)

Maybe I just got lucky.
I know epoxy can't really be heated enough to deteriorate, so my tack was to try to fracture it a little. I think the pipe vise and rubber surround was critical and the only way to get enough grip on the case without damaging it. It was clamped very firmly.


----------



## qadsan (Jan 26, 2008)

mraymer said:


> I've tried with no success...


 
Take a look at these two tools because one of them might do the trick for you :thumbsup:

http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=FLB-11-B

http://www.micro-tools.com/store/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=FLX-11-B

I can't get the bezel off of one of my Novatacs and was thinking of buying one of these tools to try out. I have removed ~20+ Novatacs in the past and some were quite difficult, but this is the only one that has me beat so far. I've tried all the tricks on this one and even put it bezel down on my nice calibrated hot plate and let it cook for a while, but no go. I also have a pair of pliers with soft smooth jaws that grabs things fairly well, but it was a no go with these too. I'm sure I could grab some channel locks and muscle it off like my son tried to do with his light, but they would most certainly gouge the material and scrape off the finish if they slipped.

These Flexiclamps would probably be the best tool to use since they grab a lot more surface area via collet grip and they'd do the job without damaging the finish. I'm going to buy this in the one inch size, but they do sell these in different sizes. If you wanted to wrap your light with protective tape or cloth for even more protection, then maybe the next size up from an inch might be a better choice as long as the material you're using provides enough friction so nothing slips.

Good luck!


----------



## sawlight (Jan 27, 2008)

A little FYI on red Loc-tite, it should break down at approx. 225 deg.. I have found time to be the best help, it seems to deteriorate over time, and heat seems to help more than cold, with the deterioration process.
Cycling hot and cold will expand and contract the metal, eventually weakening and cracking the bond between the two pieces, but I doubt it has much affect on the epoxy itself.


----------



## tebore (Jan 27, 2008)

sawlight said:


> A little FYI on red Loc-tite, it should break down at approx. 225 deg.. I have found time to be the best help, it seems to deteriorate over time, and heat seems to help more than cold, with the deterioration process.
> Cycling hot and cold will expand and contract the metal, eventually weakening and cracking the bond between the two pieces, but I doubt it has much affect on the epoxy itself.



I found that cycling hot and cold helped in a few cases. But then again it could be because I did heat the metal to red hot then hit it with a garden hose. The amount of red loctite also determines how extreme you need to go.
Another way would be to pop the part in the oven but then the switch and o-rings would be toast.


----------



## mraymer (Jan 27, 2008)

I'm in the middle of attempting a hot-cold cycle, just put it in the freezer. I've tried heat and lots of it. So much heat in fact the soldering on the spring inside let go and out it tumbled. I'm going to let it cool for a while and then blast it with some more heat. I think the key that louie had was his tube vise and a single strap wrench which may be allowing him a much better grip on the switch than I'm getting trying to use two strap wrenches. If this next cycle doesn't work I may have to invest my energies into fabricating some type of a tube vise setup similar to what he's using to get the best grip.


----------



## mraymer (Jan 27, 2008)

Success, alternating heat and cold did the trick. Left it in the freezer for about 15 minutes and let it get good and frosty, then blasted it with heat. Tapped down on the head two or three good times and then it came right apart using my strap wrenches without much force at all. Heat alone didn't work, though I'm sure it weakened it. I think the cold then heat and tapping it, similar to louie squeezing it in his vise, did the trick. It came apart easily then. Thanks for your guide louie and all the other suggestions.


----------



## cave dave (Jan 27, 2008)

It seems like cap removal deserves its own thread, for the sake of future CPF's who use the search feature.


----------



## iSleep (Jan 27, 2008)

Guys ... Anyone tried to fit a Surefire F04 Diffuser onto the Novatac ? The F04 is for lights with a 1 inch diameter ... It should fit right ?


----------



## tebore (Jan 27, 2008)

iSleep said:


> Guys ... Anyone tried to fit a Surefire F04 Diffuser onto the Novatac ? The F04 is for lights with a 1 inch diameter ... It should fit right ?



I have a red one for my lights and it fits.


----------



## iSleep (Jan 27, 2008)

Ok ... Thats some lightning fast answers ... I'll add that to my order ...


----------



## FredericoFreire (Jan 28, 2008)

Only 29 2xCR123 HDS EDC tubes left on the 2nd run! :naughty:


----------



## cave dave (Jan 28, 2008)

iSleep said:


> Guys ... Anyone tried to fit a Surefire F04 Diffuser onto the Novatac ? The F04 is for lights with a 1 inch diameter ... It should fit right ?


My F04 practically lives on my HDS EDC. I initially balked at the price, but its been worth every penny and then some. Wish I had bought one years ago. Every owner of a 1" light (HDS, SF, NOVATAC, McGizmo, etc) should have one. :twothumbs


----------



## tebore (Jan 28, 2008)

Well I got 18650s to fit in the 2x123 tube. I took out the stock spring and replaced it with a spring a I made. Loading the light is trickier. I have to screw the tube and battery in to get it to work. But other than that it's fine. Drops and flings don't disengage the spring.


----------



## Cuso (Jan 28, 2008)

OK, got my tube today, tried it with the Novatac...no worky, it lighted but no control whatsoever. Cleaned the contacts, lubed charged the battery..no worky. Noticed the spring was a little bit loose, and it was touching places it shouldn't so I tried re-screwing the bends on the spring to get them to hug the battery better and it did the trick. All is good. Also got one of the new flat clips , its a lot better than the first version...


----------



## yaesumofo (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

While the surefire diffuser works ok The Bezel KIY which is for sale on light sound is an OEM kit made by HDS which includes diffusion an extra lens and a tool to take the bezel off.
all for something like 30 and these will work with alephs as well as Mcgizmo lights with the 19 _+ reflector and window.
yaesumofo




tebore said:


> I have a red one for my lights and it fits.[/quote


----------



## yaesumofo (Jan 28, 2008)

You can be sure that when these are gone that will be it..........................Right?

I have mine installed but I am having a tough time with the balance of the light which is now strange.
Man I wish there was a 37mm head to go with this long body.
It would make this feel more like a light.

PLease don't jump I am just doing some more outloud thinking.
Yaesumofo



FredericoFreire said:


> Only 29 2xCR123 HDS EDC tubes left on the 2nd run! :naughty:


----------



## tebore (Jan 28, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> You can be sure that when these are gone that will be it..........................Right?
> 
> I have mine installed but I am having a tough time with the balance of the light which is now strange.
> Man I wish there was a 37mm head to go with this long body.
> ...



With 17670s and 2x123 I can see how the light feels head heavy. I assume that's what you mean by unbalanced. Using 18650s the light feels heavy all the way through. 

I just made a few more springs. With a bit of skill and wire I just bought 4 18650 tubes for less than $200.


----------



## tebore (Jan 28, 2008)

*Double posthttp://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=springswm5.jpg*


----------



## tebore (Jan 28, 2008)

Pics of my battery packs and my lights. The forth light is with my girlfriend and the 4th battery tube is still on route.






Here's the spring I made to replace the stock. Left is the one I made the right is the stock.
*

*


----------



## Russki (Jan 28, 2008)

tebore said:


> Here's the spring I made to replace the stock. Left is the one I made the right is the stock.
> *
> 
> *


 
Good job tebore.
I thinking of something similar.
This tube definitely the winner .


----------



## qadsan (Jan 28, 2008)

What size wire did you use for the springs? Did you use Piano wire or ???


----------



## cave dave (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



yaesumofo said:


> While the surefire diffuser works ok The Bezel KIY which is for sale on light sound is an OEM kit made by HDS which includes diffusion an extra lens and a tool to take the bezel off.
> all for something like 30 and these will work with alephs as well as Mcgizmo lights with the 19 _+ reflector and window.
> yaesumofo



The F04 and the kit are two very different animals, and the kit isn't really necessary.

You only need to remove the stock ring once, with a bit of plastic, rubber or snapring pliers, because after that you should replace it with a SS, or Ti like the Leef for $16 or $10 for the Novatac one, these give much more protection to the bezel.

The O-rings ($1.00) and mild diffuser ($2.50) in the kit is available separately and the mild diffuser doesn't diffuse the beam near as much as a F04, and isn't as easily removed or added.

Granted the spare lenses will come in handy one day. You can and should get a UCL from lighthound for $5.49


----------



## tebore (Jan 29, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



cave dave said:


> The F04 and the kit are two very different animals, and the kit isn't really necessary.
> 
> You only need to remove the stock ring once, with a bit of plastic, rubber or snapring pliers, because after that you should replace it with a SS, or Ti like the Leef for $16 or $10 for the Novatac one, these give much more protection to the bezel.
> 
> ...



That's the way I see it.

I might still buy it just to complete the collection. The bezel tool still HDS. But the wallet is empty. I know about a year ago I was searching and searching for the kit and couldn't find it.

As for the wire I have no idea what the thickness is the label was damaged by water a long time ago. It's not piano wire is what I know for sure.


----------



## iSleep (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

One more thing, does NovaTac rate brightness at the emitters or out the front like surefire did ?


----------



## iSleep (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

*Sorry ... Double post*


----------



## KenAnderson (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



iSleep said:


> One more thing, does NovaTac rate brightness at the emitters or out the front like surefire did ?


 
Out the front like SF.

ken


----------



## iSleep (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

COOL ~ 

Thanks, Ken and the rest who answered all my questions here ... 
Can't wait to get my hands on one of these beauties ...


----------



## Russki (Jan 30, 2008)

I am surprised 17670 tubes still in stock.
They can be used with 18650 cell with very little mod.
I got myself 3.
Harry up people.


----------



## depusm12 (Jan 30, 2008)

I just bought a HDS 17670/2xCR123 body myself.


----------



## tebore (Jan 30, 2008)

Has anyone else successfully run 18650 battery in the 17670 tube?


----------



## FredericoFreire (Jan 31, 2008)

Lighthound updated the 2xCR123 tubes quantity to 99 again. This is the 3rd lot of 99!!


----------



## KenAnderson (Jan 31, 2008)

tebore said:


> Has anyone else successfully run 18650 battery in the 17670 tube?


 




Bored mine out to fit the 18650 with original spring. Works like a charm.

Ken


----------



## wvaltakis2 (Jan 31, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> Bored mine out to fit the 18650 with original spring. Works like a charm.
> 
> Ken



How did you insulate the spring from the tube after you removed the anodizing?

~Chip


----------



## alanagnostic (Jan 31, 2008)

300 2xCR123a tubes at Lighthound? Someone sure had quite the supply of these! And to think, when I was ordering mine I was trying to hurry through the process because I was worrying they would sell out before I finished! Ha! Anyway, I got my two 2x123A tubes and a spare 1-cell tube. I should be set for a while.


----------



## KenAnderson (Jan 31, 2008)

wvaltakis2 said:


> How did you insulate the spring from the tube after you removed the anodizing?
> 
> ~Chip


 
Currently I'm just using a heavy paper tube liner with a bit of glue to hold it in place. Works like a dream.

Ken


----------



## DimLite (Jan 31, 2008)

KenAnderson; said:


> Bored mine out to fit the 18650 with original spring. Works like a charm.
> 
> Ken





Sooo .... Ken, how much are you going to charge for your boring services ? :naughty:


----------



## Oddjob (Jan 31, 2008)

alanagnostic said:


> 300 2xCR123a tubes at Lighthound? Someone sure had quite the supply of these! And to think, when I was ordering mine I was trying to hurry through the process because I was worrying they would sell out before I finished!...


 
I was the same. I was at work when I first saw this thread and I went and got my wallet and ordered one right away for fear of missing out. Who knew?

Got my 2x123 tube today and I am happy. I usually stick to smaller one cell sized lights but I have to say I like the little bit of extra heft and length. For me it is not EDC but certainly it will be used camping and and walking the dog.


----------



## phosphor (Feb 1, 2008)

Oddjob said:


> I was the same. I was at work when I first saw this thread and I went and got my wallet and ordered one right away for fear of missing out. Who knew?
> 
> Got my 2x123 tube today and I am happy. I usually stick to smaller one cell sized lights but I have to say I like the little bit of extra heft and length. For me it is not EDC but certainly it will be used camping and and walking the dog.


Mine arrived yesterday. MARVELOUS !....I've fallen in love with my HDS all over again. I too am ok with "the extra bit of extra heft and length".....it's not too big, bulky, or weighty that I won't tuck it into a jacket pocket when I go out in the evening. When summer comes and I have "fewer" pockets it may sit idle temorarily.....but it's a light in a configuration I'll always come back to. I think if I had to narrow my flashlights down to one, my HDS with a single cell and 2x123 tube would be the one ! So happy I found
this thread....best $50 I've spent in a while !

- regards


----------



## derfyled (Feb 1, 2008)

I'm really happy to now have a 2x123 tube but my real "dream" would be that a batch of 2xAA tube shows up. 

When travelling, AA are easy to find in any country and are cheap.

Am I the only one dreaming of AA tube ?


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 1, 2008)

You know when i first found out about these tubes for sale i ordered as many as i could afford.To see that he still has them is crazy! Hope there are some left on my next payday.


----------



## mraymer (Feb 1, 2008)

I ordered one when they first went up. I figured there probably wasn't a lot of them and I already had one, I'll get one more and allow others to get one or two for themselves. I didn't want to be greedy. Then they threw up the second batch, so I decided I'd order two more and I did. Now I'm sitting here contemplating buying just one or two more. I honestly don't need them so why do I feel the impulse to purchase more? 

Now, if they happen to run across a couple of 2AA tubes, we're all going to be fighting over them. I don't see that happening considering there wasn't many of those made, but then again, who would have ever thought there would be this many 2x123/17670 tubes floating around somewhere?


----------



## Cuso (Feb 1, 2008)

I just hope he finds some forgotten stash of complete lights, stowed away in a dark corner of the warehouse...forgotten for years...brand new..untouched...


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 1, 2008)

You know it was kinda nice having a pretty rare tube that not many had but now somehow i just don't feel special anymore


----------



## mraymer (Feb 1, 2008)

Yeah, me too. You would still feel special if you had bought all 300 of them and kept them out of everyone elses hands.


----------



## KenAnderson (Feb 1, 2008)

We still think of you guys as special and even unique.

Just like everyone else on the face of the earth


----------



## RGB_LED (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



cave dave said:


> The F04 and the kit are two very different animals, and the kit isn't really necessary.
> 
> You only need to remove the stock ring once, with a bit of plastic, rubber or snapring pliers, because after that you should replace it with a SS, or Ti like the Leef for $16 or $10 for the Novatac one, these give much more protection to the bezel.
> 
> ...


Great comment cave dave - I was about to pull the trigger on the kit but balked at the $30 price. Now, I think I'll remove the stock ring via another method and add the new ss bezel ring that I picked up. With my new 2x123 tube that just arrived, the ss bezel ring and new clip, I think my HDS will now once again be in my daily edc inventory.



derfyled said:


> I'm really happy to now have a 2x123 tube but my real "dream" would be that a batch of 2xAA tube shows up....
> 
> Am I the only one dreaming of AA tube ?


Same here. Did HDS ever make 2xAA tubes?


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 2, 2008)

Oh they made 2XAA tubes and i want one! I don't know why but i want one.I think they made less than 20.


----------



## cave dave (Feb 2, 2008)

Will the new Novatac low profile clip fit on the tailsection of the HDS 2xCr123 tube?


----------



## cave dave (Feb 2, 2008)

I think there were only four 2xAA working prototype bodies made. They had problems with the springs. There were 100+ unspringed bodies made, but never released.


----------



## wvaltakis2 (Feb 2, 2008)

I love my 2xAA tube, almost the same length as a minimag and ovver an hour on high with ni-mh...should be even better with lithium AA's. Plus it's got the only 2xAA ti pocketclip ever 

~Chip


----------



## derfyled (Feb 2, 2008)

wvaltakis2 said:


> I love my 2xAA tube, almost the same length as a minimag and ovver an hour on high with ni-mh...should be even better with lithium AA's. Plus it's got the only 2xAA ti pocketclip ever
> 
> ~Chip



If it's not too much troubles, could post some pics please ?


----------



## Derek Dean (Feb 2, 2008)

cave dave said:


> Will the new Novatac low profile clip fit on the tailsection of the HDS 2xCr123 tube?


See post #138 (page 5 of this thread). Ken is not only using the new NovaTac low profile clip, but also the tactical tailswitch! Very coool.


----------



## wvaltakis2 (Feb 2, 2008)

derfyled said:


> If it's not too much troubles, could post some pics please ?














~Chip


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 2, 2008)

If its not to much trouble could you lend me that tube for a while:naughty:


----------



## senna94 (Feb 2, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> Bored mine out to fit the 18650 with original spring. Works like a charm.
> 
> Ken



I have been thinking of using a flap sander on a drill to attempt this. Once bored some fish paper should be great insulation on the exposed aluminum. Has anyone other than Ken tried this successfully ??


----------



## cave dave (Feb 2, 2008)

Derek Dean said:


> See post #138 (page 5 of this thread). Ken is not only using the new NovaTac low profile clip, but also the tactical tailswitch! Very coool.



I'm still wondering if the Novatac clip will work on HDS body and tail. Ken is using the Novatac switch which might have different spacing then the HDS tube and HDS switch.


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 2, 2008)

I have both hds and novatac lights give me a minute and i will check.


----------



## KenAnderson (Feb 2, 2008)

cave dave said:


> I'm still wondering if the Novatac clip will work on HDS body and tail. Ken is using the Novatac switch which might have different spacing then the HDS tube and HDS switch.


 
Dave,

I've swapped the Novatac clips onto my HDS knurled clickie with no problem. I have noticed that the 123 tubes are slightly different on the ends. One end has a slightly bigger gap where the Novatac clip fits. I always put the larger gap on the tail end and the clip works great. I haven't tried it the other way.

I can provide pics if you wish, just let me know which configuration you would like to see.

Ken


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 2, 2008)

yep fits great


----------



## cave dave (Feb 2, 2008)

My gap is 1.35 mm. Will have to order a Novatac low profile clip from Lighthound on my next order. I don't use the clip with the single 123 body but the larger body feels like it needs a clip and I think the novatac clip will work better than the HDS clip when using the 2xCR123 body.


----------



## wvaltakis2 (Feb 3, 2008)

You could always get a 2x123 clip

~Chip


----------



## derfyled (Feb 3, 2008)

wvaltakis2 said:


> ~Chip






:wow:



Thank's for the pictures, you just tortured me a bit more...


----------



## FredericoFreire (Feb 3, 2008)

65 2xCR123 tubes left from the 3rd run at LH. People that didn't grab one still got time. 

The dust Caps are back in stock!


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm broke till Friday! I got 2 the first day hope there are still some left on payday i need 2 more.


----------



## FredericoFreire (Feb 4, 2008)

I got 2 CRx123 HDS tubes that I ordered from LH. The nice thing is the runtime, but I really prefer the original form factor.


----------



## cliff (Feb 4, 2008)

senna94 said:


> I have been thinking of using a flap sander on a drill to attempt this. Once bored some fish paper should be great insulation on the exposed aluminum. Has anyone other than Ken tried this successfully ??


 
Today I ordered a second 2x123 tube specifically to bore out for a 18650 and am also wondering what the best/most successful way of doing this would be. Flap sander, brake hone, etc? 

In the past I have enlarged battery tubes with sandpaper wrapped around a dowel, but there must be a better way.


----------



## wvaltakis2 (Feb 4, 2008)

FWIW, I made a new spring out of some 0.020" stainless wire and an 18650 works just fine for me as well. 

~Chip


----------



## yaesumofo (Feb 4, 2008)

Making a thinner spring is a whole lot easire than boring out and then anodizing the tube.
Yaesumofo





cliff said:


> Today I ordered a second 2x123 tube specifically to bore out for a 18650 and am also wondering what the best/most successful way of doing this would be. Flap sander, brake hone, etc?
> 
> In the past I have enlarged battery tubes with sandpaper wrapped around a dowel, but there must be a better way.


----------



## yaesumofo (Feb 4, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

IMHO having the kit is a very goof thing because it works on all of the bezel types which are like the orignal hds head and the alephs as well as the orignal PD's.
the diffusion are well worth it as well Have you tried to cut a perfect round diffusion? Not easy to do perfectly.
The sirefire diffusion is cool but when it begins to wear out they fall off the light easily and suddenly are gone.

having a spare lens is cool too.
NO....IMHO the KIT is a good deal BTW using the kit tool is much easier than a snap ring plier especially because it is almost impossible to slip and ding the threads with the tool like you can with the snal ring plier.
Beleive it or not there was a lot of thought put into the kit by HDS.
Yaesumofo




RGB_LED said:


> Great comment cave dave - I was about to pull the trigger on the kit but balked at the $30 price. Now, I think I'll remove the stock ring via another method and add the new ss bezel ring that I picked up. With my new 2x123 tube that just arrived, the ss bezel ring and new clip, I think my HDS will now once again be in my daily edc inventory.
> 
> Same here. Did HDS ever make 2xAA tubes?


----------



## mraymer (Feb 4, 2008)

Agreed yaesumofo, the kit is worth the money. The removal tool not only guarantees I'm going to get the ring out without damage or scratching my light, but when I put the ring back in I'm sure it's going in more tightly and securely than using the bottom of a mousepad or my fingers. And as stated, it works also on ARC 4+, Aleph and other lights so it's not just an HDS tool.


----------



## tebore (Feb 4, 2008)

I bet Novatac is selling these to LH in batches. There's no way LH has all of these just in some store room some where.


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 4, 2008)

What i cant quite figure out is why they are being sold so cheap! All that have hds lights and tubes spend 2to3X what he is selling them for.Don't get me wrong I'm loving the price that they are sailing for its just odd.


----------



## yaesumofo (Feb 4, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

These must have been the spare parts which Novatac acquired as part of the HDS deal. Where else could they be coming from?
Maybe novatac has a a whole bunch more. Maybe they even have the 18650 bodies..Has anybody asked them?
Yaesumofo




tebore said:


> I bet Novatac is selling these to LH in batches. There's no way LH has all of these just in some store room some where.


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 4, 2008)

Well I'll tell you one thing if there were only 100 18650 tubes made there are a whole lot not accounted for!


----------



## Nitroz (Feb 4, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Well I'll tell you one thing if there were only 100 18650 tubes made there are a whole lot not accounted for!



I'm begenning to get suspicious.:thinking: TG, what in the heck did you do with all the 18650 bodies??? Isn't it bad enough that you have too many HDS lights!


----------



## thermal guy (Feb 4, 2008)

You can never have enough of these lights:thumbsup:


----------



## Cuso (Feb 4, 2008)

cave dave said:


> Will the new Novatac low profile clip fit on the tailsection of the HDS 2xCr123 tube?


 Yep very nicely..


----------



## 9volt (Feb 4, 2008)

Cuso said:


> Yep very nicely..



Sorry for the the threadjack, but are the Novatacs typically this light in color? ^^^


----------



## Cuso (Feb 5, 2008)

9volt said:


> Sorry for the the threadjack, but are the Novatacs typically this light in color? ^^^


Mine is 3 color, the body, battery pack and switch are different ano shades... The HDS battery tube is very dark compared to the rest of the Novatac pieces, and both the switch and tube are matched perfectly...


----------



## depusm12 (Feb 6, 2008)

Cuso 

Is that a new NovaTac slimmer clip on the HDS body in the [ic?


----------



## Cuso (Feb 6, 2008)

depusm12 said:


> Cuso
> 
> Is that a new NovaTac slimmer clip on the HDS body in the pic?


 Yep


----------



## supes (Feb 8, 2008)

I dropped my HDS light with newly installed 17670 body from the hound + AW protected 17670 in it on a wooden floor surface from under 4ft, while it was on Primary mode. The switch sudden stopped responding. It would stay on but when I tried to click it off, it would not respond to my action. Only when I manually twisted it off, did it fully turn off. 

After some fiddling around with the parts, I took out the spring and re aligned it back in the body and all is well again. Anyone have this happen to them before? 

This makes me doubt this light's reliablity. I might need to go back to the 1XCR123a body, even though I was really starting to like this new longer one.


----------



## louie (Feb 8, 2008)

It might be considered a weakness of the design. The spring carries the switch control signal. If either end stops contacting the head or tail, control ceases. In this respect, the Type A tail only has one end to contact, in the head, and very little springiness.

As long as you know the weakness, you can deal with it, just futz with the spring. I think more people have trouble when installing the batteries and turning the switch cap or head.


----------



## yaesumofo (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*

I wonder if there is enough meat on the old ARC 2AA adapter made for the arc ls to be re machined for use with the hands or novatac.
I will make an offer.
If any of you have the arc aa body and have the ability to design a part...I will do my best to have it made. Have what made you may ask?

We should have a little ring threaded on both sides to adapt the ARC 2AA body to fit the novatac head. upon initial examination I believe it is possible. Theb hard part may be in getting a spring in there. Maybe this should be done as a permenant mod to the ARC AA adapter???? Hell I don't know. I do know there are LOTS of the ARC 2AA adapters floating around and they can be found cheap too.....Maybe untill word of this project gets out...
I have been known to come up with some crazy ideas in the past. This one is at the top...

I just wonder...
If I do embark on this project I will have to figure out an easy way to administer it.
I do not want to be saddled with the chore of making the part and shipping it out and keeping track of the money so we will need a volunteer to handle all of that. Say a person who is group elected with at least 3 years and 2000 posts on the CPF.
If there is interest and it is determined that it can be done and if enough of you guys have one of these ARC 2AA tails If If IF..
I will open a thread up in the correct area of the forum. There are lots of if and and buts so we will see.
Any takers?

Yaesumofo


----------



## senna94 (Feb 9, 2008)

FredericoFreire said:


> I got 2 CRx123 HDS tubes that I ordered from LH. The nice thing is the runtime, but I really prefer the original form factor.



All we need is a coupling that will fit 2 2X123 tubes together which will accomodate 2 17670 cells for extremely long runtime. Of course it would look like a baton and you would need a long spring. Anyone try this yet????

Paul


----------



## tebore (Feb 10, 2008)

senna94 said:


> All we need is a coupling that will fit 2 2X123 tubes together which will accomodate 2 17670 cells for extremely long runtime. Of course it would look like a baton and you would need a long spring. Anyone try this yet????
> 
> Paul



Won't work at all. Even if you could get a coupler and a spring. There's no cell configuration that the head will accept.


----------



## derfyled (Feb 10, 2008)

*Re: hds stuff at sighthound!*



yaesumofo said:


> I wonder if there is enough meat on the old ARC 2AA adapter made for the arc ls to be re machined for use with the hands or novatac.
> I will make an offer.
> If any of you have the arc aa body and have the ability to design a part...I will do my best to have it made. Have what made you may ask?
> 
> ...




This is a great idea. Any 2 AA configuration for the EDC line would be fantastic.

Another option would be to design only an anodized tube that fit 2AA, we could then use the switch on a 2xCR123 tube (or any new generation 1 cell battery tube). This way, an anodized tube and a spring and we could chase darkness with standard AA.


----------



## FredericoFreire (Feb 10, 2008)

senna94 said:


> All we need is a coupling that will fit 2 2X123 tubes together which will accomodate 2 17670 cells for extremely long runtime. Of course it would look like a baton and you would need a long spring. Anyone try this yet????
> 
> Paul



Two lithium cells produces about 7.4v and the head only handles up to 6v.


----------



## senna94 (Feb 10, 2008)

If you look at the owners manual it clearly states in the specifications on page
13 that it will handle 1.8V to 7.3V. This is in the owners manual I received with my HDS U60 GT.


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## DM51 (Feb 10, 2008)

FredericoFreire, I think you are in danger of confusing Lithium-Ion (Li-Ion) rechargeable cells with Lithium primary cells. 

2x Li-Ion cells fully charged = 8.4 volts, not 7.4 volts.

senna94, if you take that figure into account, you will see that your idea of using 2x Li-Ions would exceed the safe maximum voltage for the light.


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## thermal guy (Feb 10, 2008)

It will definitely go boom!


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## FredericoFreire (Feb 10, 2008)

DM51 said:


> FredericoFreire, I think you are in danger of confusing Lithium-Ion (Li-Ion) rechargeable cells with Lithium primary cells.
> 
> 2x Li-Ion cells fully charged = 8.4 volts, not 7.4 volts.
> 
> senna94, if you take that figure into account, you will see that your idea of using 2x Li-Ions would exceed the safe maximum voltage for the light.



DM51, you're right. That's what I wanna say. Sorry for my typo.


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## senna94 (Feb 10, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> It will definitely go boom!



TG I think you would be the ideal person to try this for two reasons. First of all you have more HDS lights than any of us and 2 this would be the perfect opportunity to test HDS warranty repair. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding!!!!!!!

Paul


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## thermal guy (Feb 10, 2008)

Of course i do remember that hds lights have a safety in them so if the volts are to high it just puts the light in low mode till the volts drop.Not sure if i just made that up or read it somewhere


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## Radio (Feb 10, 2008)

Henry stated that this protection mechanism does exist, It will protect against 7.3v+ for brief periods but he also stated the protection circuit is taking the full brunt of it and each bout may cause slight cumulative damage to it that may eventually cause it to fail. That being said he also stated it may fail completely and instantaeously at higher voltages so use at your own risk.

LINK to Henry's post


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## FredericoFreire (Feb 12, 2008)

:candle:Anyone here saw what Henry said about the battery tubes sold on LH?

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2123038&postcount=250

He says that those tubes doesn't have "true factory first quality". For sure, they came from what NovaTac acquired from HDS.


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## qadsan (Feb 12, 2008)

FredericoFreire said:


> :candle:Anyone here saw what Henry said about the battery tubes sold on LH?
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2123038&postcount=250
> 
> He says that those tubes doesn't have "true factory first quality". For sure, they came from what NovaTac acquired from HDS.


 
I bought more than a half dozen of these tubes and they've all been working fine so far and some of them are being used daily / nightly. I checked the concentricity of the tubes, the threads, ID & OD, wall thickness, anodizing, spring force, and other factors and my tubes look first rate to me. Maybe there are problems with the alloy that might show up when checking fatigue under pressure, but I'm willing to take that chance. Or maybe it's purely an issue with the snap disc switch where the disc quality is inconsistant or perhaps the way it was installed is an issue on some units, etc.

As far as I can tell on the tubes I have, the only weak link in these longer tubes is the spring itself. It provides the link between the rear button and the emitter module / electronics. If the battery is not properly installed so the spring isn't hanging over equally on both ends and making suffucient contact at the tail cap and emitter module, then the rear button won't work. If the light is on and you drop the light, the inertia from the drop can cause the spring to momentarily lose contact and this simply shuts the light off. If the spring instead happens to bounce a couple of times with some lucky timing, then the light may change modes.

For a mission critical light, this could be a serious issue. But if you're simply carrying the light for casual use, then perhaps this is something a person can live with. And 'some' people can work around this issue with custom springs or other similar solutions that allows improved contact when the light is dropped on its end.

And how do we really know these tubes came from Novatac? Where is the proof of this? Has Novatac actaully said that Lighthound is selling the tubes they had in their possession or is this still speculation / rumor or ??? Either way, I'm really glad these tubes showed up at this price because they've been working GREAT for our needs.


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## M.S (Feb 12, 2008)

My tube had some minor flaws in the anodizing... But I don't care at that price.


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## Beastmaster (Feb 12, 2008)

Huh. This is starting to get into the gray area - similar to what Cy and Henry got into regarding the ARC 4 switches.

-Steve


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## FredericoFreire (Feb 12, 2008)

qadsan said:


> As far as I can tell on the tubes I have, the only weak link in these longer tubes is the spring itself. It provides the link between the rear button and the emitter module / electronics. If the battery is not properly installed so the spring isn't hanging over equally on both ends and making suffucient contact at the tail cap and emitter module, then the rear button won't work. If the light is on and you drop the light, the inertia from the drop can cause the spring to momentarily lose contact and this simply shuts the light off. If the spring instead happens to bounce a couple of times with some lucky timing, then the light may change modes.




Other than that, the only issue that I found on my tubes is the anodizing color, that never maches and in some cases it is totaly light green/grey color.


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## cave dave (Feb 12, 2008)

Did a *Lvl3 *runtime test of the 17670 tube. Since every EDC has different drive currents I first did baselines for performance on the RCR123. The idea being to arrive at a multiplication factor from RCR123 to 17670. I used Level 3 because I use that a lot and didn't want to have heat issues.

Light: HDS EDC B42XR, SSC modified
Conditions: Runtime on* Level 3*, uncooled 66 F air temp.

*Time to first brightness drop.*
Battery Station 900mAh RCR123: 2hr 10min
AW 750mAh RCR123: 2hr 40min
Blue label unprotected 1500mAh 17670: *6hr 43min*

The reason I did the test with an unprotected is I accidentally ordered it from Lighthound and I wanted to see how the built in HDS protection would treat it.
Start voltage of 17670 hot off charger= 4.21v
End voltage of 17670 right after 2nd output drop= 2.84v


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## DM51 (Feb 12, 2008)

Dave, what was the voltage of that 17670 after it had rested ~30 mins? It would be interesting to know.


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## cave dave (Feb 13, 2008)

DM51 said:


> Dave, what was the voltage of that 17670 after it had rested ~30 mins? It would be interesting to know.



It went up considerable. I tested it a minute or two later and around 20 min later, but can't remember the numbers. It quickly rebounded above 3.0v.


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## DM51 (Feb 13, 2008)

That's good. As long as it bounces back above 3.0V, it's OK. 

A problem might arise when running at a lower level, when the power consumption is less. Paradoxically, a lower setting could lead to over-discharge, as the voltage sag would be less, so there would be less rebound.

I don't know exactly how the HDS protection system works, or what the settings are. It is good to hear it works well on level 3, anyway.


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## NoFair (Feb 14, 2008)

M.S said:


> My tube had some minor flaws in the anodizing... But I don't care at that price.


 
Mine has as well. Just a few spots on the knurling. Don't mind, but it makes these being seconds more plausible.

I'd mind if it was on my HDS when I got it for $150 new

Sverre


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## Cuso (Feb 20, 2008)

"C" tubes are gone !! Right when I was ready to order. Whats the real difference between the C and B tube?? just the spring??


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## FredericoFreire (Feb 20, 2008)

The dust caps are out of stock also!


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## Supernam (Feb 29, 2008)

I have an idea for fitting an 18650 into the 17670/2xcr123 tube. I do not own any 18650's, so someone would have to try it.

At some hobby or hardware stores, you can purchase thin sheets of various metals. If you were to cut a sheet and role it into a non-overlapping tube, it might just be able to act as sleeve/spring that would make contact between the head and tailcap. I would actually role the sheet at an angle before trimming it, in order to give it some springiness.

Might work.


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## tebore (Mar 1, 2008)

I've just completed a new super spring that can't fail and is safe in that it won't damage the battery. 

The ends are folded in a way to assist in keeping it rigid and stops rotation along an axis, the middle fold as well keeps the spring from rotating and helps in installation. The folds also gives the wire the springiness needed when it's compressed and to apply enough force to prevent drops or forces from breaking contact.

You have the insert the battery in the tube first the install the spring. It drops right in the 1mm gap. I was inspired by looking at the original style battery tubes, gotta think outside the box.

The reason for making this spring instead of keeping the original design with a thinner wire is that installation of the battery is difficult. The wire is too thin and usually snags when tightening the tube. Basically if you're in the dark and needed to reload an 18650 it was less than 50/50 it would fire on the first shot. This new spring makes changing the pack easy and you can do it in the dark.

PS: I almost forgot the add. To prevent shorts if for some reason the wrap on the battery is ripped I covered the entire spring in nail polish except for the 2 end loops.

If you guys like it can we call it the "Tebore mod"?


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## tebore (Mar 1, 2008)

Update I just improved on the above with a more robust design. The bottom clip is thinner and longer to prevent shorting when inserting in to the bottom. It's easier to insert and different from the other end to show it's the negative end.

The middle folds are doubled to make it more ridge and it's offset to show which side faces the positive terminal

This spring is also more springy.


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## Russki (Mar 2, 2008)

Nice solution.
Now everybody can have their tubes converted in to 18650.
Good job:twothumbs


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## :)> (Mar 2, 2008)

tebore said:


> Update I just improved on the above with a more robust design. The bottom clip is thinner and longer to prevent shorting when inserting in to the bottom. It's easier to insert and different from the other end to show it's the negative end.
> 
> The middle folds are doubled to make it more ridge and it's offset to show which side faces the positive terminal
> 
> This spring is also more springy.


 
How about a group buy??? I would pay at least $100.00 to have an 18650 tube for my HDS lights:naughty:

I am just kidding of course, but if it could be done this easily with copper wire, I wonder how hard it would be for some enterprising soul to produce this solution... 

...that's right, I did say soul and now you all know that besides being a thinker, that Goatee is also religious. Sorry Hodsta:nana:


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## :)> (Mar 2, 2008)

Did you use 24 or 22 AWG wire?


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## thermal guy (Mar 2, 2008)

Nice idea guys! Wow i just saw that there has been over 7000 views on this thread! Gotta love these hds:rock:


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## :)> (Mar 2, 2008)

Thermal Guy,

I can't help it, but every time I see your avatar, it makes me think that you are the most cheerful and upbeat person on CPF:laughing:


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## paxxus (Mar 2, 2008)

tebore said:


>


I just love ACME products


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## thermal guy (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks Goatee :twothumbs


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## DM51 (Mar 2, 2008)

paxxus said:


> I just love ACME products


ROFL !!


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## tebore (Mar 2, 2008)

Those springs look really rough I know because I was reusing wire and it was made quickly using 2 needle nose plyers. 

I made 3 new ones using a paper template with fresh wire and better tools. It looks much cleaner. 

Did anyone actually try out the design? If so please share how it's working.

If someone wants to start making it and selling it they can but I'd like some kick back  Or if they want me to make them one I can also do it for price of the wire and shipping. 

As for the gage of wire I don't know I'm sorry this was left overs from another project.


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## Cuso (Apr 14, 2008)

C-version switches and caps restocked!! ( at least I could add some to my cart)

edit: I could only add 2 caps and 1 switch to my cart..


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