# Why are HDS (RA) lights so popular?



## tre (Oct 21, 2010)

I am trying to figure this out. Should I buy one? Clearly it is the forums favorite light. I think I can say that with near 100% certainty. I am trying to figure out why I should get one but can't figure out what is so great about them (having never seen one in person). I've read all the directions about the operation of the light. Perhaps you guys can convince me because I am not getting it but I feel like I'm missing out on the fun by not having one.

This may seem like I am bashing but I assure you that is not my intention. I am really trying to understand what is so great about these. Every time I think about pulling the trigger this is what stops me:

I understand they are built like a tank but I have not yet broken any light I own - even lights that are clearly not built like a tank.

It is certainly not small. In fact at nearly 4 inches it is pretty darn big for a CR123a light. My Zebralight SC60 is 4 inches and runs on an 18650 (brighter AND better run time).

I'm sure the beam is nice but I have lots of lights with nice beams (and some lights with horrible beams).

Yes, it is programmable. My Zebralights have some programming where I can pick out my brightness levels (out of 6 levels). My Nitecore SR3 had 8 brightness levels to choose from. This does not really seem much better than other lights. I suspect the "mode spacing" I would choose on an HDS light would be pretty close to what I have on my quarks already.

HDS lights are not that bright. There are many lights the same size and smaller that are much brighter. Heck the new Zebralight SC51 puts out 200 lumens on an AA battery. My Quark 123 puts out 200 lumens on a CR123a. Both of these have more power than any HDS light.

Lastly, I'm not really sold on the cr123a battery format. Primaries have decent run time but rcr123a just don't have much capacity. I really don't like using primaries so most of my cr123a lights stay on the shelf now. I really use my single AA (eneloop) and 18650 lights. I know they have a 17670 extension tube but then the light is huge. 

Oh, and they are more $$ than most any cr123a light. 

So I just am not getting it. Please help me "get it". I don't want to miss a great light but I'm not sure what is so great about it. I'm sure I am totally wrong since it is the favorite light of the forum and I have yet to hear of a failure but I also just don't see what is so great compared to other lights. (Edit: I just read a thread about a bunch of failures but it sounds like HDS customer service is top notch)

help me understand.


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## mossyoak (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

"HDS lights are not that bright. There are many lights the same size and smaller that are much brighter. Heck the new Zebralight SC51 puts out 200 lumens on an AA battery. My Quark 123 puts out 200 lumens on a CR123a. Both of these have more power than any HDS light"

HDS underrates their lights, and my HDS 170 blew my quark 123's "200 lumens" out of the water.


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## tre (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



mossyoak said:


> "HDS lights are not that bright. There are many lights the same size and smaller that are much brighter. Heck the new Zebralight SC51 puts out 200 lumens on an AA battery. My Quark 123 puts out 200 lumens on a CR123a. Both of these have more power than any HDS light"
> 
> HDS underrates their lights, and my HDS 170 blew my quark 123's "200 lumens" out of the water.


 
Interesting. Thanks, that removes one of my concerns. Keep the info coming.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

As I wrote in another thread:


'coz it's the most versatile light and suits my lighting needs 95% of the time. It's bombproof, has 4 output levels that can be programmed in incremental steps from 0.07 lumens to 170 genuine OTF lumens, it's over-engineered, it has flat-as-a-table-top regulation, automatic battery detection, physically protects the battery with spring cushioning at both ends, protects rechargeables from over-discharge, very reliable electronic forward clicky switch, 3mm AR coated UCL sandwiched between O-rings for shockproofing, fully potted electronics, great no-BS customer service, extra large SS bezel for better impact protection, verrrry looong runtimes, gives you a gradual warning when battery needs changing, HA III coated, has programmable momentary-on, a software button-lock, programmable memory or forced function, programmable automatic off function, has strobe/SOS/locator beacon but is hidden if not required, a very intuitive UI, it's ruggedly handsome, not ostentatious, does not over-heat, the LED is not overdriven so will last a lifetime, is available with a longer battery tube for longer runtimes, has really low lows, oozes quality, Made in US, each light is individually calibrated.........

Basically, the Clicky is a product of a very long evolution line. All the way back to the Arc 4, then the HDS EDC Basic/Ultimate series, then Novatac, then the HDS/Ra Twisty, and finally the Clicky in its current iteration. It's the flashlight equivalent of the Porsche 911.

Do I need to go on ?


Check out this thread for more info.


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## Brasso (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

You're right, they are a bit large for single 123 lights. They are built as a tool, not so much as a pocket light, although they are small enough for that as long as you aren't wearing slacks. They fit the hand just right.

I think what makes them so good besides the build quality, is the UI. It seems complicated, reading the programming instructions, to get it set up. And compared to other lights, it is. But once you get it set up, this light will do whatever you want it to do. You can program it to have any UI you can think of. It will work as a clicky and a momentary, all at the same time. It has built in lockout, if you want it to. It has strobe, if you want it to. It has a very wide range of output levels from almost uselessly dim to full. It knows whether there is a li-ion or a primary in it and adjusts accordingly. It will stay in locator flash mode when turned off, if you want it to. It will come on at any output level you want it to. You can set each of 4 output levels in any order you want. You can leave it in program mode and have instant access to any output level you want, or you can lock those preset levels in. 

And it can make wonderful omelets.


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## boulder (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



tre said:


> can't figure out what is so great about them (having never seen one in person)


 
There's youre problem right there!!! 

Seriously though, get one. Or two like me.


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## jellydonut (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I, too, want to understand.. And I'm fairly intent to find out for myself when the new model hits the scene.

I don't like single-clicky lights with any more than two modes so the current model is out for me. No matter how nice, well-built, durable and efficient it is I already know I don't like the UI so I'll wait for the new model with the new UI concept.

If it turns out I don't like that I'll find a used twisty. If that thing had a momentary tailcap as well it would be the perfect light and I could sell most of what else I have. :nana:


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## Lost Hawaiian (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

For me, the reason is a bit more subjective...I just do. It has all the features I need or want in a form that I like. I carry in a horizontal sheath on my belt, so the size isn't a problem.

I'll probably never stop buying more lights out of curiousity (aka lack of willpower :duh2, but I've never purchased one thinking that it would be a replacement for my HDS (which I carry every day).

Now, I realize that this doesn't help your decision, but here's my 2c...

In the words of the immortal Ferris Bueller, "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."

The first time you hold it you will either "get it" or you won't. If you do, then welcome to the club. If not, put it on the MP and get your money back.

Hope this helps,
Rich


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## Echo63 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I don't own a hds/ra clicky
I do own a novatac, which is very similar, the clicky is an evolution of the design.

If I could only have one light, this would be it.
It is bright enough to useable for most tasks, and on low is dim enough to not disturb my wife, or my night vision.
It is well built, gets it's rcr123 charged once a month (whether it needs it or not) and has a simple to learn interface.
I don't really play around with the programming of it, I set it up once (3years ago) and haven't needed to change it.
It blinks once every few seconds to let me know where it is.


Probably the best recommendation I can give, is my wife (who doesn't appreciate fine flashlights the way I do) asked for one, and carries it in her handbag.
My novatac has been carried pretty much everywhere I have been since I got it, and has failed to light up only once, due to a dead battery (i reholstered it turned on, and promptly forgot about it)

The HDS is the evolution of the design that started with the arc4, then the HDS EDC range, followed by novatac, and now RA/HDS

If I lost my novatac, I would have no hesitation in handing over the money for a Clicky


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## iacchus (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



jellydonut said:


> I don't like single-clicky lights with any more than two modes so the current model is out for me. No matter how nice, well-built, durable and efficient it is I already know I don't like the UI so I'll wait for the new model with the new UI concept.



When Ra/HDS lights are referred to as fully programmable, it means just that. You can program it to behave as if it only has two modes. 

Sometimes people have a hard time understanding the genuine versatility of this light.


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## F250XLT (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I don't see the big problem here, buy one secondhand on the Marketplace. If you you don't like it.....just flip it. One persons opinion of something, may certainly not be the same as yours in the end. The only way to find out if it is truly for you, is to own one.....plain and simple.


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## chanjyj (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



mossyoak said:


> "HDS lights are not that bright. There are many lights the same size and smaller that are much brighter. Heck the new Zebralight SC51 puts out 200 lumens on an AA battery. My Quark 123 puts out 200 lumens on a CR123a. Both of these have more power than any HDS light"
> 
> HDS underrates their lights, and my HDS 170 blew my quark 123's "200 lumens" out of the water.



I thought both 4sevens and HDS rate their lights OTF? *scratches head*

Anyway for me, the reason is.. Waterproof to 20m!


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## hank (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I haven't bought one yet. Like many others, I've worked my way up slowly, starting by discovering the LEDMuseum, which pointed me to CPF; went from simple homemade LEDs, through Sandwich Shoppe dropins for the 2AA [email protected] and Solitaire, various Chinese lights as they came available, Ebay and Dealextreme and other sources, bought close to a dozen Arc AAAs in various colors, got some early ARC LSs, got a MillerModded Arc AAA, got several of my early Arc LSs modded, got my first Nailbender dropin, custom amber flood just a week or two ago.

Never bought an Arc after the LS level--at the time, just couldn't convince myself to spend that much money, seeing how fast LEDs keep changing. I never knew til last week that the late Arc lights came from Ra -- which would've made both more tempting sooner.

There comes a time when you realize, well, enough light is enough light, for everyday-and-everynight carrying. You want a completely reliable light that does enough well enough. You know enough will still be enough no matter how much things change in the next few years because you're no longer chasing what's newest, you want the light -- the illumination -- without any worries. 

Maybe we never get past wanting the latest tool, but we get to where we also appreciate having one consistent light we can be sure of that has enough features.

Dagnabbit, I was hovering over the Ra twisty high color just last week.
It seemed to have enough of everything I wanted.

And zip, it's disappeared. 

Thing is, you can't appreciate a really good LED light until you've gotten a good idea what else is out there--and spent two or three times what one good LED light will cost on other lights

Yeah, I'm OK with my current three or four lights that I swap between, and it's great to be able to give my castoffs to people who find them amazing over and over. And I'll keep doing it for a while. 

But I've noticed there's another level, the Arc4 and the Ra Twisty high color are examples of the level I am going to be moving to, next time I've seen a light get proven that good.

I can hope someone clever and competent is building something almost as good as the Ra Twisty high color light and many lights will be almost that good in the coming year or so.

I can expect Ra will have something I'll like even better -- I sure hope so. This high end market is still pretty damned small, I think because of the long and twisty path we have to follow to really appreciate how much good can be put into one excellent light.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



hank said:


> Dagnabbit, I was hovering over the Ra twisty high color just last week.
> It seemed to have enough of everything I wanted.
> 
> And zip, it's disappeared.


 

Unique Titanium still has the Twisty high CRI in stock last time I checked.


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## recDNA (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



F250XLT said:


> I don't see the big problem here, buy one secondhand on the Marketplace. If you you don't like it.....just flip it. One persons opinion of something, may certainly not be the same as yours in the end. The only way to find out if it is truly for you, is to own one.....plain and simple.


 

I seldom see used ones on the Marketplace and when I do they are still expensive.

My main concern is brightness. Does it draw 1.4 amps or more? If not it simply cannot be as bright as some less expensive yet very functional and bombproof flashlights. I still don't think it is bright enough for the difference in price. 

I don't care about programming it. As long as it has a low and high I'm satisfied. The low can be 1 lumen or 20 - I don't care but for over $100 I'd like max to be in the high 200 lumen range. (over 250 otf on IMR16340)

I understand the light is beloved here so I don't post in the "I love my HDS thread" out of respect but this seems to be the thread to discuss such things...in fairness though...I also don't get spending a ton on a Rolex when my Seiko keeps time more accurately. 

I'm really not trying to aggravate anyone. I just can't see why this light is worth so much money.


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## Gatsby (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I agree with almost all that has been posted thus far.

I admit that it begins with the UI for me. I've tried a lot of different lights, and many of them work just fine, but the HDS UI remains the gold standard for utility the way I use a light. I've owned an Arc4+, an HDS EDC B52 and U60, and a Novatac 85P and 120P from the early days when they were still one company. But for my 120P being modded beautifully by DarkZero with a really nice K2 TFFC and sporting a PEU tritium bezel I'd have bought a Clicky. I'll likely pick up one at some point. And the basic programming features, what you can set and the options you can choose, as well as how you access the modes, is just an extremely useful and versatile way to use a flashlight. Everything else folks have said is also true, they have all been generally over engineered and designed to be as reliable as possible. There is a reason Surefire and Ra get so much attention, they are just that well made.

For example, I had a purge a number of years ago and I went for nearly two years with exactly three lights (not including old Mags) - a Photon II microlight on my key ring as a backup, a Streamlight Strion for long throw, and an HDS B42XRGT stock (but unlocked using 250 clicks back door). I used the B42 for 95% of my lighting needs and it met 95% of them. I had a really low low for nighttime around the house, one level about set at an Arc AAA level, one set at the LSHP level, and max. In fact I sold my AAAs and LSHP at that time as the HDS covered all those bases. With higher powered LED's short of a HID I could dispense with the Strion these days. 

If pushed I could do that again - and if forced to pick only one I would probably get a Clicky 170 and would be just fine for the huge majority of needs I have.

The only knock I have on the HDS/Ra lights is their size - and while the Arc4+ was similarly sized the form factor made it feel, kind of like the E1, smaller than it was. The original HDS and Novatac lights are chunky, and the Clicky is even chunkier. That is really a big reason I haven't upgraded to a Clicky is that it's even bigger than my 120P which pushes the limits for an EDC light in my work environment. I would trade a bit of the ruggedness for a more pocketable version. Having said that, I never dropped my Arc but did drop both my HDS's as well as my 85P Novatac and they survived admirably. But I have not challenged the build quality to even approaching their tolerances, and given a few foot drop once every several years and pocket carry I'll roll the dice that even a slightly less bomb proof version would serve me well. 

But absent that - I'll put up with a bit of size for the UI and reliability.


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## F250XLT (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> I seldom see used ones on the Marketplace and when I do they are still expensive.
> 
> My main concern is brightness. Does it draw 1.4 amps or more? If not it simply cannot be as bright as some less expensive yet very functional and bombproof flashlights. I still don't think it is bright enough for the difference in price.
> 
> ...



So don't buy one, simple.


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## Darvis (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I want to echo all the positives above: I too went cheaper and chased lumens and comprimised. then, in a moment of clarity, I fianlly bought one... I curse the day.

Then another, then another and now have seven of them between the twistys and clicky's... Out of all of them, I prefer the 140 clicky wide with the executive programming and tactical switch. I re-programmed mine to be at low from on, then double click medium with press and hold the standard high mode. Triple click gets me a beacon. 

And that's just it, I can do that, and anything else I want with the light... recessed tail cap, different bezels, clip options. 

It's an incredible light on so many levels that it's easy to say it's just like any other light out there because the amount of flexibility you get with this light also makes it that much more seamless and unassuming.

They were never designed to be the biggest, badest, or brightest.. In fact, Henry has written much about what the ideal level of light is that one "really' needs. It's true. Sure, I like lumens sometimes, but not as much as my HDS at 13 lumens, or even .02 lumens. For EDC, relaibility and flexibility along with usability reign supreme. 

There are definitely brighter lights out there and ones whose quality is on par, maybe they even have as many levels as well. but very few, if any, that can do so many things as well as or better than the hds and carry the type of warranty and service that HDS provides. I have not found that light yet, but I continue to look anyway.

Anyway, blah blah blah blah blah... so I'm and HDS guy and am blinded by my love of the clicky, true. So I'll leave you with this bit of advice that will apply to any light you buy...

Unless you need the absolute power (and some do) usable runtime trumps max lumens any day of the week, especially usable, regulated runtime that tells you how much time you have left.

The last bit is this: The folks on CPF are a skeptical, detailed, and hard to please bunch and it takes a lot to get them excited about a light, any light; few lights generate enough buzz to dominate the searches... thay have to be that good (or bad).

Don't doubt what you've read!!! The light has so much written about it for a reason.


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## Gatsby (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

If the highest level of lumens out the front (and HDS is a real number out the front, not inflated) then you should look elsewhere as there are other lights out there with higher total output. No question.

You have to pick what matters to you. I do think it is interesting to note, however, that of the production and semi production lights that harbor the most loyal fanbases (Surefire, HDS/Ra and McGizmo who given the steady output of consistent models I'll call semi production) none of them is at the top of the total lumen output heap. 

I suppose you choose your business model - rather than chasing the highest output, some choose to make very reliable, well engineered, very well made lights that perform at or better than advertised/spec and will withstand a good bit of use/abuse. Some choose to produce smaller runs at a faster pace to keep up with the latest technology. There is nothing wrong really with either approach - but if forced to choose one light on which to hang my hat in a pinch, I'll take a Surefire, Ra or McGizmo over a Fenix any day of the week.


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## gunga (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I guess it's like cars.

A well engineered, well built car (I dunno, Bimmer say?) vs say a pocket rocket (Mazda Speed 3) or other muscle car (Ford Mustang).

The Bimmer is not the fastest, nor cheapest, but it is much better in other ways. Perhaps that is a reasonable comparison?


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## flatline (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> My main concern is brightness. Does it draw 1.4 amps or more? If not it simply cannot be as bright as some less expensive yet very functional and bombproof flashlights. I still don't think it is bright enough for the difference in price.



If your main concern is brightness, then no matter what you buy now, it won't compete a year from now. With that in mind, you would be a fool to spend more than $60 or $70 on a light that you know you're going to want to replace in a year.

But at some point you may realize that a 50% increase in output makes almost no difference in real use except when extreme throw is paramount. If you ever start to value the other qualities of a light (beam shape, color rendering, UI, ruggedness, size, shape, etc), then you may appreciate the value of the HDS lights. But probably not before.

--flatline


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



gunga said:


> I guess it's like cars.
> 
> A well engineered, well built car (I dunno, Bimmer say?) vs say a pocket rocket (Mazda Speed 3) or other muscle car (Ford Mustang).
> 
> The Bimmer is not the fastest, nor cheapest, but it is much better in other ways. Perhaps that is a reasonable comparison?



It has to have a "best something" to stand out. Bimmers are known for "best handling". I don't have a HDS, but from all the posts above, looks like the HDS have the "best compromise" i.e. the most # of desirable features by the most people. 

May be they "listen to the customers"?


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## Henk_Lu (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Yet another thread on the same topic...

The HDS Clicky is just the best light on the market, that's it! 

Read the Clicky threads, you can spend the weekend with it. Like everything that's built, a light is always a compromise. Well, Henry managed to build the best compromise with the Clicky.

I just talk about the Clicky, because the Twisty is history by now, but it was a very good light as well, the Clicky is just better because the "clicky" makes it more versatile. A new light will appear soon or perhaps not so soon. Nobody knows yet what it'll be, but you can bet it'll be something monumental again!


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## carrot (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



F250XLT said:


> So don't buy one, simple.


No, I think "buy one, to see what you're missing" is more effective. And it's why I'm ordering my first HDS Clicky today. :thumbsup:


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## pjandyho (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



carrot said:


> No, I think "buy one, to see what you're missing" is more effective. And it's why I'm ordering my first HDS Clicky today. :thumbsup:


So which model would that be Carrot?


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## Matt7337 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Lost Hawaiian said:


> I'll probably never stop buying more lights out of curiousity (aka lack of willpower :duh2, but I've never purchased one thinking that it would be a replacement for my HDS (which I carry every day).
> 
> The first time you hold it you will either "get it" or you won't. If you do, then welcome to the club.



You just hit the nail on the head with these couple of comments. I am exactly like you, I will probably never stop buying lights out of curiosity. Of course I don't _need _20 high performance LED flashlights, but when I bought them I was curious about them all, and wanted to try them 

Also, nothing will ever replace my HDS clicky, and that's not just because it's a Ti 170, that's because of everything else that it has going for it (already discussed at length here) as well as it's uniqueness and durability due to the Titanium construction.

The first time I held my Twisty 85-Tr, I got it. The thing didn't even have a cell in it and I got it. The fact that it was my first 1x123 light had nothing to do with it whatsoever. The twisty just felt like quality in my hand. When I put a cell in it and took it out for a beam test, I was even _more_ blown away. The same thing happened when I got my Clicky. No other light has impressed me as much for all the same reasons as those two. 

The only other brand of lights that I could personally give as much credit to for design and manufacturing quality are the Nitecore series - my Nitecore Extreme has spent more hours clipped on my pocket than any other light I own, and that's because in my opinion and for what I look for in an EDC, it's extremely hard to beat for features and value. It's closely followed by my Ra Twisty and Clicky, and they're both catching up fast since I got different clips on them both that better suit my EDC needs.


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## F250XLT (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



carrot said:


> No, I think "buy one, to see what you're missing" is more effective. And it's why I'm ordering my first HDS Clicky today. :thumbsup:



I was just simplifying it a bit, the threads about "talk me into buying ____ " are kinda silly IMO. Besides, the member I was replying to has obviously made up his/her mind that HDS/Ra is not worth near the asking price anyway.


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## kaichu dento (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



jellydonut said:


> I don't like single-clicky lights with any more than two modes so the current model is out for me. No matter how nice, well-built, durable and efficient it is I already know I don't like the UI so I'll wait for the new model with the new UI concept.
> 
> If it turns out I don't like that I'll find a used twisty. If that thing had a momentary tailcap as well it would be the perfect light and I could sell most of what else I have. :nana:


You can use the Clicky as a single mode light if you want. Just program it to come on at the level of your choice, then simply click once for on, and one more time for off.

I think you may prove yourself wrong when you get your hands on one.


recDNA said:


> I'm really not trying to aggravate anyone. I just can't see why this light is worth so much money.


You're going to continue to be confused about it, exactly as I was up until last winter when I got one. I found all the fuss over Twisty's, then Clicky's to be nothing more than an annoyance and saw them as just huge clunky looking lights.

Then curiosity made me buy one, knowing full well I could get rid of it after satisfying myself that they were not all they were made out to be. I predict you'll be one of the future fans of the Clicky once you get your hands on one, and no amount of reading will explain for you what it is until you hold one.


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## Christoph (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Because I have no doubt that when I press the button it will come on
(hacked B42 with Seoul)
C


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## iacchus (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



kaichu dento said:


> You're going to continue to be confused about it....until you hold one.



There it is right there.


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## jellydonut (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I like these threads, usually the owners are very outspoken and anyone reading will quickly know what's so great about x light.

My wallet doesn't like them though, they've resulted in over half a dozen Surefire A2s and a Surefire M6 now. :fail:


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## HIDblue (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



carrot said:


> No, I think "buy one, to see what you're missing" is more effective. And it's why I'm ordering my first HDS Clicky today. :thumbsup:


 
Couldn't agree more. Ordered my first HDS 170T Custom 2 days ago and Henry just confirmed my order today. 

Curiosity and CPF OCD will always instill a sense of 'what else is out there?' Honestly, is there really a perfect light? Personal preference for any kind of light is very subjective so I think it's a matter of what light represents the best compromise in terms of output, UI, reliability, etc., for your particular needs and/or tastes. 

I'm always on the look out for the better EDC light, and I figured there's got to be a reason why there's such an unusually loyal following for the HDS/Ra Clicky line. So, my curiosity piqued to the point that I needed to know what all the fuss was about with these HDS/Ra clickies, so I ordered one.


----------



## Gatsby (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

What is interesting is that IIRC I paid somewhere close to $200 for my Arc4+ which was a delirious amount of money at the time ($180 rings a bell...). Heck the U60 back in the day was north of $200 depending on XR and GT options. How many products have continued to improve and upgrade but gone down in price over the years?


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## harlansmart (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

+1 those comments Gatsby, a company with a product that continually gets better but where the items drop in RRP definitely gets my :thumbsup:




Gatsby said:


> What is interesting is that IIRC I paid somewhere close to $200 for my Arc4+ which was a delirious amount of money at the time ($180 rings a bell...). Heck the U60 back in the day was north of $200 depending on XR and GT options. How many products have continued to improve and upgrade but gone down in price over the years?


----------



## iacchus (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I tell you what. One of the things that I appreciate the most in the Ra, and that gets talked about the least, is its great thermal management.

Sometimes you really need to pour on the lumens. Maybe its for a minute, maybe its for an hour.

With the Ra, I never have to worry about the LED overheating. The light stays comfortable the whole time. I could not say the same for any of the single cell Li-ion EDC lights that I sold and gave away. I had to be very careful with all of them. Especially in candle mode.


----------



## fishhead (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I've been wanting a custom Ra Clicky for some time now but am so totally torn between the 100 lm high CRI and the 170 lumen version that I'm completely paralyzed. I need to just choose one and order it, but every time I go to the website and build one up I end up waffling and saying "I'll buy it later..."


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## flatline (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



HIDblue said:


> Honestly, is there really a perfect light?



After paying attention to how I use my flashlights, it became obvious that there could be no one light that was perfect for all uses. But I found that if I carry a H501w along with my Ra, that 100% of my EDC needs can be perfectly serviced by at least one of those lights.

I'm cool with that.

--flatline


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## iacchus (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



fishhead said:


> I've been wanting a custom Ra Clicky for some time now but am so totally torn between the 100 lm high CRI and the 170 lumen version that I'm completely paralyzed. I need to just choose one and order it, but every time I go to the website and build one up I end up waffling and saying "I'll buy it later..."




I had the same issue. I resolved it by reformatting the question. Instead of, "Which should I buy?", frame it as, "Which should I buy first?"

Honestly, it makes the choice much easier. You will likely end up buying the other after getting the first one anyway.

I have both now, the high CRI and the 170. They make a great pair. There is no reason to feel that the second Ra is a redundant purchase at all.


Buy 'em both, its the CPF way!

:devil: :thumbsup:


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## bmcgators98 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

As far as cost is concerned, yes it is expensive. However I have found that by owning these lights (I currently have the 170 and the CRI) I have actually spent less money. Prior to their purchase I was buying 2 or 3 $50 lights a month. Problem was that I was not really satisfied with anything I purchased. Once I bought these I was happy. I find the lights very similar to Chris Reeve Sebenzas. True top of the line production pieces that are as close to perfect design as you can get. Neither are the smallest, lightest, latest, greatest, etc but the sum of all the parts exceeds anything out there. 

As for which to buy first the 170 or the CRI. I would go with the 170 then the CRI.


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## iacchus (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Well said, Gator.

+1


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## recDNA (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



iacchus said:


> I tell you what. One of the things that I appreciate the most in the Ra, and that gets talked about the least, is its great thermal management.
> 
> Sometimes you really need to pour on the lumens. Maybe its for a minute, maybe its for an hour.
> 
> With the Ra, I never have to worry about the LED overheating. The light stays comfortable the whole time. I could not say the same for any of the single cell Li-ion EDC lights that I sold and gave away. I had to be very careful with all of them. Especially in candle mode.


 

Lower output = less heat.

If you have high output and it doesn't get hot the heat isn't being transferred away from the led to your hand (as it should) so it is poor thermal management.

Whenever I read about someone bragging that their 1000 lumen flashlight never gets hot I wonder how long it will last.

I think the Ra manages heat well because it isn't drawing high amperage.

Anybody know what the amps at the tailcap measure on max in the 170 lumen model? What is the LED anyway - R2? R5? what?


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## recDNA (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



harlansmart said:


> +1 those comments Gatsby, a company with a product that continually gets better but where the items drop in RRP definitely gets my :thumbsup:


 
Ahhh - remember what 40 inch+ LCD and LED TV's _USED_ to cost? Lots of products go down in price as they improve because as they improve they sell more. This is especially true in technology.


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## recDNA (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



kaichu dento said:


> You can use the Clicky as a single mode light if you want. Just program it to come on at the level of your choice, then simply click once for on, and one more time for off.
> 
> I think you may prove yourself wrong when you get your hands on one.
> 
> ...


 
Well, that won't happen unless there is a free pass-around. Too much money to lay down for a light I KNOW isn't as bright as what I EDC now (Dereelight shorty with 1.2 amp R5 drop in from Javelin on IMR16340). Tint is important to me but output in lumens is what determines how much I'll lay out. 

Now if the programming feature is of great importance to a user I could understand why you'd spend the dough but many here seem to just leave it on factory settings. Sorry - still baffled.

Now I like pretty lights so if there were a titanium version with a little more output I might lay out the $180 but I still think it would be overpriced even in titanium.


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## iacchus (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> Lower output = less heat.
> 
> If you have high output and it doesn't get hot the heat isn't being transferred away from the led to your hand (as it should) so it is poor thermal management.
> 
> ...



Well, I do not know the specifics of the Ra's thermal management system, but the genius stepdown is certainly a part of it.

Henry remarked that before the stepdown (which is complained about quite a bit) people complained about earlier versions heating up to the point of safety shutoff. Can't please everybody I suppose. 

I have said it before, I like the stepdown. Works well, easy to bypass.

Still, I have had lights that were of similar output that would get hot enough to worry me. A single cell CR123 light just doesnt have enough body to dissipate a lot of heat.

Hand holding helps, but I use these lights as a candle lots.


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## John_Galt (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> Lower output = less heat.
> 
> If you have high output and it doesn't get hot the heat isn't being transferred away from the led to your hand (as it should) so it is poor thermal management.
> 
> ...




The narrow models use an Osram LED. I'm not sure if its a Golden or Platinum Dragon. The wide and High CRI versions use a SSC P4.

There's really no way to get "tail cap" current measurements with a Ra. They don't have the traditional tailcap/switch combo. Besides, it would be different for each one as the different models have efficiencies based upon the LED's and electronics individual efficiencies.


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## CLBME (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I second what everyone has said, in so far as it being personal opinion. Threads like this really give the posters a chance to applaud the HDS products as we are all happy with them but it will come down to your own wants and desires.

So FWIW here's my take- I'm a light user. I carry my Twisty on belt each work day on my construction jobs and for maintenance on my equipment and the clicky models work at home. When I first bought it and the clicky models what struck me from the moment I held them was_ old-world form and craftsmanship. _Like something built from a past generation that you would inherit and it would be functioning just like the day it was made. They "feel" good in your hand- the weight/size, etc. The light looks the part just as much. For me that's a really big part of the light. 

So much has been said about the UI so not much to add. But as noted above if someone wants a 2 level light- you've got it. Or one level only. Start up in high, low, etc. Just very versatile.

Lastly and it's not been said that much here..........the customer service is tremendous and goes with my "old world" feel. Customer service like the old days where the owner answers your emails and calls and takes care of you. It's really exemplary and not often found today.

Christian


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## mefistofele86 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I was one of those who don't look at ra clicky. After reading "must have" list and many discussions i became very curious about this flashlight. On the other hand i was looking for high CRI.
1+1=2 i just bought Ra clicky high CRI and now i can understand 
Don't worry about numbers.. this light is powerfull and i like it for its color rendition (but it's just my led), for its strenght feeling, for its perfect beam, for programmability and finally i find it very very ergonomic. I have a medium sized hand, i feel it as "my flashlight".
It has only a great defect... i would like to see with eyes the 170...


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



iacchus said:


> I tell you what. One of the things that I appreciate the most in the Ra, and that gets talked about the least, is its great thermal management.
> 
> Sometimes you really need to pour on the lumens. Maybe its for a minute, maybe its for an hour.
> 
> With the Ra, I never have to worry about the LED overheating. The light stays comfortable the whole time. I could not say the same for any of the single cell Li-ion EDC lights that I sold and gave away. I had to be very careful with all of them. Especially in candle mode.


 
Yep I agree. I've never had the Clicky step down due to heat even on candle mode. HDS lights are not overdriven like some other lights which have been designed for maximum lumens.



flatline said:


> After paying attention to how I use my flashlights, it became obvious that there could be no one light that was perfect for all uses. But I found that if I carry a H501w along with my Ra, that 100% of my EDC needs can be perfectly serviced by at least one of those lights.
> 
> I'm cool with that.
> 
> --flatline


 
Same....that's why I ordered a Zebralight as well, but I went with the H31 because it uses the same battery type as the Clicky.



bmcgators98 said:


> As for which to buy first the 170 or the CRI. I would go with the 170 then the CRI.


 
+1 The 170 is more versatile because of it's greater range, whereas the high CRI comes into it's own outdoors.



recDNA said:


> Well, that won't happen unless there is a free pass-around. Too much money to lay down for a light I KNOW isn't as bright as what I EDC now (Dereelight shorty with 1.2 amp R5 drop in from Javelin on IMR16340). Tint is important to me but output in lumens is what determines how much I'll lay out.
> 
> Now I like pretty lights so if there were a titanium version with a little more output I might lay out the $180 but I still think it would be overpriced even in titanium.


 
I equate a lights lumen rating to a car's 0-60 times. Would you purchase a car solely on this statistic without taking other things into consideration such as handling, safety, comfort, etc ?

If you think $180 is overpriced for a Ti Clicky......then I have some news for you.......



iacchus said:


> Well, I do not know the specifics of the Ra's thermal management system, but the genius stepdown is certainly a part of it.
> 
> Henry remarked that before the stepdown (which is complained about quite a bit) people complained about earlier versions heating up to the point of safety shutoff. Can't please everybody I suppose.
> 
> ...


 
HDS lights have the best approach to thermal management - they just do not overdrive the LED. Pure and simple. Sure, there's in-built circuitry to protects the LED, but it's redundant and is seldom called upon.


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## ThumperACC (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> Lower output = less heat.
> 
> ...
> 
> Anybody know what the amps at the tailcap measure on max in the 170 lumen model? What is the LED anyway - R2? R5? what?


 
I've read that at 170 lumens it is drawing ~1.5 amperes and at 120 (the stepdown after burst) it is drawing ~800mA.

I believe these numbers were from Henry but I can't find where I read it.

ThumperACC


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## Matt7337 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Belstaff1464 said:


> If you think $180 is overpriced for a Ti Clicky......then I have some news for you.......



Even if I replaced that $ with a £, I would _still _have news for you! Hehe, people's inaccurate assumptions of how much these lights cost and more importantly are worth makes me laugh


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## recDNA (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



ThumperACC said:


> I've read that at 170 lumens it is drawing ~1.5 amperes and at 120 (the stepdown after burst) it is drawing ~800mA.
> 
> I believe these numbers were from Henry but I can't find where I read it.
> 
> ThumperACC




Then it can't be an XP-G R5. What is it? XR-E R2, XP-E R2?


If drawing 1.5 amps it should get very hot.



> HDS lights are not overdriven like some other lights which have been designed for maximum lumens.



When they are I might be interested in one! I love overdriven lights. Max isn't meant for 20 minutes of straight use. Give me 280 lumens for 5 minutes of fun along with that 170 lumen mode for longer duration needs. Even then I wouldn't spend $180 but I would go around $95 for it.

I know the titanium version goes for a fortune but that doesn't mean it is worth it. I'll take my titanium Quark with a 1.4 amp driver mod. Just as pretty - brighter - nowhere near the price. But as I said...for me it is a tool to light things up - not a work of art. That's why I don't get spending 10 grand for a watch when a $100 watch keeps time more accurately.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Matt7337 said:


> Even if I replaced that $ with a £, I would _still _have news for you! Hehe, people's inaccurate assumptions of how much these lights cost and more importantly are worth makes me laugh


 

Me too. People, Yes they are expensive *but* *no way are they overpriced !!!* I find most people making that comment have no first hand experience and are purely basing their assessment on one particular specification, i.e. lumens, and we all know that not all lumens are created equal. A person only needs to look at the Clicky's features and hold one in their hand to realize where all that money has been spent on. It's definitely not on the packaging or marketing !!!! Similarly, a lot of people who are disparaging the UI have no first hand experience. I will admit that I was initially apprehensive, but after i got it I realized that it's very intuitive.


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## iacchus (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> Then it can't be an XP-G R5. What is it? XR-E R2, XP-E R2?
> 
> 
> If drawing 1.5 amps it should get very hot.



The 170 is not a Cree. Its an Osram GD (or GD+, not sure which)


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## recDNA (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



> I equate a lights lumen rating to a car's 0-60 times. Would you purchase a car solely on this statistic without taking other things into consideration such as handling, safety, comfort, etc ?



No, but I would _exclude_ a car due to a slow 0-60 time regardless of how it handled or other factors. I exclude the RA due to the low lumen/dollar ratio.





Belstaff1464 said:


> Me too. People, Yes they are expensive *but* *no way are they overpriced !!!* I find most people making that comment have no first hand experience and are purely basing their assessment on one particular specification, i.e. lumens, and we all know that not all lumens are created equal. A person only needs to look at the Clicky's features and hold one in their hand to realize where all that money has been spent on. It's definitely not on the packaging or marketing !!!! Similarly, a lot of people who are disparaging the UI have no first hand experience. I will admit that I was initially apprehensive, but after i got it I realized that it's very intuitive.



Actually, by definition, all lumens ARE created equal!

I agree the features, like programming, are worth money but many have written that they don't even bother to program their RA!

I don't disparage the UI - I just don't care about it. H -M - L is good enough for me and given a choice I like the magnetic ring selector best but I won't spend the money to get that either.

Of course I have no first hand experience since I don't value things like underwater use nor programmability nor high CRI. Why would I spend $190 for a light that I know isn't as bright as mine (Dereelight shorty R5) when I value brightness over UI or CRI?

I really should reword what I said though - it _is_ overpriced for someone like me who values brightness over other factors.

If you value waterproof to 20 feet or high CRI or programmability over brightness then it may _not_ be overpriced for YOU.

I compare the RA to my TK40 and I can't see spending more for the RA. Yes, I know they are totally different types of lights but a lot of money had to go into designing the TK40 too and it is pretty tough.

We all like flashlights for different uses so I guess it isn't surprising that what's good for the goose _isn't_ always good for the gander! You guys have been good sports not to get angry at me for having a different opinion about the value of these VERY popular flashlights.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> Actually, by definition, all lumens ARE created equal!
> 
> I agree the features, like programming, are worth money but many have written that they don't even bother to program their RA!
> 
> ...


 

I disagree. Some manufactures will state the Max possible OTF lumens (or sometimes even at the emitter) even if it only last for a few seconds with a new battery. Whereas some manufacturers will quote the max output level which can be maintained for a reasonable sustained duration. 

If you re-read the Op's question in the title, he is asking why it is well regarded. I never claimed that the Clicky is perfect for everybody. If you do not need the features, then by all means go with a cheaper and brighter light. What I was trying to say is that anyone purchasing this light is paying for the engineering that has gone into this light. It is over engineered and evidently not appreciated by someone such as yourself. My argument is, whoever buys this light is not *dudded* just because it "only" produces 170lumens. It makes up for it with all the other specifications that I and others have written.

I think you are taking this thread off topic. The OP is asking why we rate the Clicky so highly. Obviously you can't really contribute because you have admitted that you don't own one. IMHO, your opinion is null and void in this thread. If he posed the question a different question, e.g. "why have you not bought a Clicky ?", then your arguments would have some merit. I suggest that you start a new thread if you want to follow that line. I will be more than happy to contribute in that discussion.


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## HorseFilms (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> We all like flashlights for different uses so I guess it isn't surprising that what's good for the goose _isn't_ always good for the gander! You guys have been good sports not to get angry at me for having a different opinion about the value of these VERY popular flashlights.



You've been very good about stating actual reasons why these lights don't work for you. You weren't trolling. I appreciate that.

I'm very happy with my High CRI, but I'm a videographer, so I bought it for more than EDC. It just happens to be the best light I own for EDC, so it's never leaving my belt.


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## [email protected] (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Belstaff1464 said:


> Obviously you can't really contribute because you have admitted that you don't own one. IMHO, your opinion is null and void in this thread.



Very dismissive & totalitarian stand point there, his opinion is every bit as valued as your own PERIOD, the titles asks "Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?" thus *liking* is not the equivalent of ownership, it's purely subjective as are opinions.

Personally, whilst the specifications look impeccable, the design/construction are over engineered & the UI impressively configurable I don't "like" it's aesthetics and that's the deal breaker for me, many will disagree but once again all opinions are subjective aren't they?

The best suggestion I've seen in this tread is simply buy it and try it, you'll either love OR won't


----------



## dyril (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Many great answers here. I empathize most with mefestofele86's as to why I finally decided to get one (so many people seem to like High CRI, myself included now), and CLBME's for underscoring the physical density of HDS lights. I feel the weighty heft has helped to curb butterfinger fumbles and drops, its presence heightening the usage experience. I certainly have confidently wielded my Clicky for the few times I've had to use it at work (I don't often require a light).

As for why I started keeping a tab on HDS lights, it was initially because the Clicky's physical design reminded me of my newly-acquired Boker Wharcom which I also love for its apparent choil and weightiness.

Then I saw this awesome picture of a desert tan cerakoted Clicky, and by then it was too late as I found myself inadvertently skimming and reading too many posts never to find that picture again until it was relinked again.



carrot said:


> No, I think "buy one, to see what you're missing" is more effective. And it's why I'm ordering my first HDS Clicky today. :thumbsup:


Also, as a lurker, this post made my day. I had always wondered why you didn't already have one.


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## recDNA (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



> Some manufactures will state the Max possible OTF lumens (or sometimes even at the emitter) even if it only last for a few seconds with a new battery.



I was joking. A lumen is a measureable unit so all lumens ARE equal get it? ha - ha. 

Whether a manufacturer misrepresents lumen output is a different issue. Many do. Many are clear that they are stating max emitter lumens and base their estimates solely by using Cree's published output values per amp without any consideration for all the reasons those theoretical values are never achieved.



> My argument is, whoever buys this light is not dudded just because it "only" produces 170lumens. It makes up for it with all the other specifications that I and others have written.



I said this light might be worth the money to someone who cares more about UI, waterproofing, etc. than output. Where do we disagree?



> The OP is asking why we rate the Clicky so highly.





You're absolutely right there. Since I don't rate it very highly my opinion is off topic if his question is taken literally.

I wonder why Ra doesn't use an XP-G R5? Perhaps then I'd be extolling its virtues as well? Anyway I meant no disrespect. I've often wondered the same thing as the OP.


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## Kestrel (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Regarding the OP's query:


tre said:


> Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
> [...]
> help me understand.





recDNA said:


> [...]Of course I have no first hand experience
> [...]
> I really should reword what I said though - it _is_ overpriced for someone like me who values brightness over other factors. that what's good for the goose _isn't_ always good for the gander! You guys have been good sports not to get angry at me for having a different opinion about the value of these VERY popular flashlights.


I would just like to interject something here, it does invite a bit of controversy to comment on a light that one doesn't own - a light that is owned by so many CPFers will have no shortage of posters for a thread query such as this. The question that the OP is asking here seems to be directed toward folks who use or at least have tried the light(s) in question.

All opinions are welcome of course, but a series of conjectural back&forths aren't really helpful, especially if the usual analogies are brought out as well (cars, watches, etc). :ironic:


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## John_Galt (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> *SNIP...*
> You're absolutely right there. Since I don't rate it very highly my opinion is off topic if his question is taken literally.
> 
> I wonder why Ra doesn't use an XP-G R5? Perhaps then I'd be extolling its virtues as well? Anyway I meant no disrespect. I've often wondered the same thing as the OP.



Before the XP-G came out, we were asking Henry why he doesn't use the Cree XR-E (at that point, as popular as the XP-G is now). 

He basically said it hadn't been around long enough for them to ensure its durability and longevity. His concerns were raised with the domes falling off, as they aren't really held in place through a fool proof mechanical bond.

Yes, they were more efficient than the Osram GD's and SSC P4's, but their durability was a big factor. That and, IIRC, purchasing large enough quantities at a time.

Using the XP-G now would require a driver with more and different drive levels... If levels were added to increase maximum output (ie: 200 and 240 replacing 140 and 170) then you would need a driver of even lower, efficient drive levels.

For example, lets say that the Osram GD needs an average of 1mA to produce .07 lumens, then replacing it with an XP-G would mean an output increase to say, .13 lumens at the same drive levels. Meaning to maintain the same outputs currently, and the visually even spacing difference between outputs, the driver would need to efficiently deliver a fraction of the current now needed. (These numbers are all purely theoretical)
This would possibly necessitate a new driver design... Very expensive, especially if he continued to offer the 120's, 140's and 170's, as well as the 100 high CRI's.


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## KarstGhost (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I got mine for the High CRI emitter. It is a tough light, thoughtfully developed, and the programming is nice, 
but the real reason I bought it was for the High CRI. Probably won't buy another one until they come out with 
an improved Hi CRI emitter. 

If you appreciate quality flash lights, as in fit and finish, and you're not expecting it to
be a mini HID, you will not regret buying one.


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## gunga (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I do own 2 Ra Clickys, so I think it's fair to comment. I thought the car analogy would make it easier to understand the appeal, price not-withstanding. 

I do like the Ra's myself, but I find them a bit big and bulky for my tastes. Nonetheless, I have two!

After I finish the XP-G mod on the second one, I will be a happy camper.


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## carrot (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



dyril said:


> Also, as a lurker, this post made my day. I had always wondered why you didn't already have one.


Henry and I have extremely different opinions on the ideal flashlight UI. I accept less flexibility to gain the feature of instantly accessible high and low modes (I don't have to toggle modes, I just get high or low depending on how hard I press the button), whereas Henry feels that more flexibility (and more output levels) justify lacking instant access to multiple output levels.

BUT, I have admired the design and capabilities and robustness of the HDS Clicky for years, and today seems as good as any a day to order one to try out.


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## Gaffle (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I just wish Henry made a AA version. For some reason I personally cannot commit to a 123 battery. 

Because of CPF I have had a few different lights. Unfortunately I have not jumped into the real high-end side of the spectrum. Because of hanging in the low section I have had light failure. I would love something hella reliable like a HDS light, but I still personally hate 123s. 

The problem is that even as I write this I have a tab open with a customized HDS Clicky 170lm, sapphire lens, and (as of right now) flush switch (although raised button sounds pretty good). 

ARGH!!!


----------



## carrot (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Gaffle said:


> I just wish Henry made a AA version. For some reason I personally cannot commit to a 123 battery.
> 
> Because of CPF I have had a few different lights. Unfortunately I have not jumped into the real high-end side of the spectrum. Because of hanging in the low section I have had light failure. I would love something hella reliable like a HDS light, but I still personally hate 123s.
> 
> ...


Just go for it! Once you think about it the total cost of ownership for a 123-powered light is not significantly higher than owning an AA-powered light. If you run through batteries at a rate that would cost you a LOT, then you can just switch to rechargables (at least for some lights). I use my lights every day and very few rechargables and I use on average about 40 cells per year, less than the price of an Xbox Live or Netflix subscription.


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## Darvis (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> We all like flashlights for different uses so I guess it isn't surprising that what's good for the goose _isn't_ always good for the gander! You guys have been good sports not to get angry at me for having a different opinion about the value of these VERY popular flashlights.


 
Because your points are valid and the OP needs to hear the good and the bad. I gushed earlier about why I love my clicky, but to your point: when I need Lumens, it's my Oveready/Nailbender SST-50 that gets the nod, or my Modded SST-50 DBV3.

The clicky will never trump my Peak Eiger as my prowl around the house light, or beat the ReVo when I need super small and versitile. I also hold the newer generation Surefire L1 in as high regard as the Clicky.

Sometimes, you just need a AA light....

The why is just as valid as the why not.


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## John_Galt (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



carrot said:


> Just go for it! Once you think about it the total cost of ownership for a 123-powered light is not significantly higher than owning an AA-powered light. If you run through batteries at a rate that would cost you a LOT, then you can just switch to rechargables (at least for some lights). I use my lights every day and very few rechargables and I use on average about 40 cells per year, less than the price of an Xbox Live or Netflix subscription.




The HDS is also set up to recognize and protect Li-ion cells from over-discharge. You can also get it with the 17670 battery tube, if you want to run only 17670's. Once you've invested in the light, a 17670 battery compartment, a decent smart charger and a few cells, you basically have a light that will last you for the rest of your life, a few cells that will need replacing in 3 or 4 years, and a charger that will hopefully work for a decade or more. In a few months/years, you've paid for it in battery savings alone.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



[email protected] said:


> Very dismissive & totalitarian stand point there, his opinion is every bit as valued as your own PERIOD, the titles asks "Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?" thus *liking* is not the equivalent of ownership, it's purely subjective as are opinions.
> 
> Personally, whilst the specifications look impeccable, the design/construction are over engineered & the UI impressively configurable I don't "like" it's aesthetics and that's the deal breaker for me, many will disagree but once again all opinions are subjective aren't they?
> 
> The best suggestion I've seen in this tread is simply buy it and try it, you'll either love OR won't



I admit that recDNA has valid arguments and his opinion has merit.........just not in this thread. That's why I suggested that he starts a new thread. Even recDNA admits that he has taken it off topic.



recDNA said:


> I was joking. A lumen is a measureable unit so all lumens ARE equal get it? ha - ha.
> 
> Whether a manufacturer misrepresents lumen output is a different issue. Many do. Many are clear that they are stating max emitter lumens and base their estimates solely by using Cree's published output values per amp without any consideration for all the reasons those theoretical values are never achieved.
> 
> ...



When I said I disagreed I was referring to the first part of your statement where you were joking about the definition of lumens. I totally agree with you when you say that the Clicky does not meet you needs. I get that. It won't suit everybody.


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## jslappa (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

^^^^I believe I read that Henry said somewhere the Cree LED's did not fare well on his strict testing procedures. I don't remember if he was including the then new XP-G R5 or not, but certainly the XR-E and XP-E series could not cut the mustard.

Like many of you here, I also buy----try----sell many different lights. I started with DX, moved on to 4sevens, all the way up to the Cool Fall Tri-V. I've purchased $5 lights, all the way up to $2000 lights. recDNA makes some good arguments for his opinions, and you can't knock the guy for his honesty. He gets that there are compromises with any light. His overdriven R5 has compromises in quality, stability and warranty.........as compared to an RA light. But, I bet his light is bright as hell! I respect that he knows what's important to him, and he doesn't falter. 

Still, I am thoroughly happy with my Clicky 140 (wide), Clicky Hi Cri, and Ti RA Clicky 170. I take extra pride in knowing that the Ti Ra can be upgraded to the newest LED .......uh....well.....for the life of Henry's business. If, five years from now, we can get 400 lumens from a single die emitter @ .8A, I'll only have to pay the upgrade cost. 

However, I should point out that I really hate when I read a post by someone who empahatically states that a light is not worth $XXXX. Worth is a relative term, and is subject to personal interpretation. Is the Ti RA worth $600 to recDNA? Clearly not. But you can't say that it's not worth $600 period. That would be a false statement, since there are about 100 people who DID think it was worth the money. To me, $150 is nothing for a light that could last for generations. That's 2 golf outings. That's one pair of running shoes that will only last 3 months in heavy use. If my wife is drinking too, that's 2 hours at the Tapas & Martinis bar. 

For all the guys that refuse to spend more than $25 on a light...I don't knock you one bit. You can get some great lights for that. For example, I just received a Maratac AAA in the mail. It's not mine, but it looked really well built, so I read all the threads I could find on it. Turns out that a new one only costs $21.75, and if I buy a $6 AW unprotected 10440 I can get about 150 lumens out of it. That's rediculous for such a small light! That XR-E Q5 is impressive coming from a light smaller than my pinky. We live in exciting times for flashaholics right now. No matter your disposable income, there are many choices for each of us.


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## JWRitchie76 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



F250XLT said:


> I don't see the big problem here, buy one secondhand on the Marketplace. If you you don't like it.....just flip it. One persons opinion of something, may certainly not be the same as yours in the end. The only way to find out if it is truly for you, is to own one.....plain and simple.



+1! I was a skeptic myself but personally for me once I had one in hand and played around with the functions this is without a doubt the best light going. Now aside from the full out custom lights or the occasional Muyshondt when I come to the forums all I see is "blah, blah, blah. HDS. blah, blah, blah. Ra"....Well you get the point! And my point is you should get one and if it's not your cup of tea there are plenty here that will gladly take it off your hands for little to no loss.


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## Brasso (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Quote: If that thing had a momentary tailcap as well it would be the perfect light and I could sell most of what else I have.


It does. It does dang near anything you want it to UI wise. You can program it to work as a momentary and a clicky. At the same time. Press once for constant on. Or, press and hold for momentary. When you release it turns off. All at the same time!


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## lightplay22 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I still EDC one of my HDS b42's (ssc modded) and love it. I use the ultra low often in the mornings, and use the primary setting (have forgotten what level I set it at ) for most everything else.
When I need a little more light, I just press and hold the button and when I let up the light goes back to primary. Its so easy and convenient to pocket carry and will clip on a cap bill for a head light, a manner in which I have used for hours at a time. I use only primary cells and they seem to last a month or two, depending on usage of course. Its proven totally waterproof and absolutely dependable. It comes down to this for me, If (God forbid) I could only keep one light, Of the surefire, fenix, nitecore, muyshondt, 47s, It would be the HDS!


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## CodeRed (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

The ONLY thing that I dont like about my Ra clicky is the two little screws. they seem superfulous and take anyway for the nice lines of the light, but that might be just me. Other than that is it is a winner.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



CodeRed said:


> The ONLY thing that I dont like about my Ra clicky is the two little screws. they seem superfulous and take anyway for the nice lines of the light, but that might be just me. Other than that is it is a winner.


 
I've heard from a reliable source that the next batch of Clickies will be sans holes. Since the ugly MOLLE clip is no longer the stock standard clip, there is no need for the holes and once this batch of lights have been sold, the new ones will be hole-free. 

This is another reason why I like HDS lights: HDS listens to their customers and improve their product accordingly, e.g. the clip was replaced due to the huge outcry, a 2 x AA is being developed due to customer demand, the UI (I believe) is going to be changed to allow the burst feature to be programmable, etc


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Oct 21, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Basically what you're paying for is the level of quality you get. After having modded a few dozen Ra lights, I've come to notice that they are some of the most heavy-duty lights I've seen. I wouldn't say that they're more bombproof than a Surefire, but they offer a great balance of reliability and convenience of multiple levels.

If you're really concerned about the output, the emitter can be swapped for an XP-G. That will give you about 1/3 more output (entirely subjective to my eyes) and a cooler-running light.


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## nbp (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Belstaff1464 said:


> I've heard from a reliable source that the next batch of Clickies will be sans holes. Since the ugly MOLLE clip is no longer the stock standard clip, there is no need for the holes and once this batch of lights have been sold, the new ones will be hole-free.
> 
> This is another reason why I like HDS lights: HDS listens to their customers and improve their product accordingly, e.g. the clip was replaced due to the huge outcry, a 2 x AA is being developed due to customer demand, the UI (I believe) is going to be changed to allow the burst feature to be programmable, etc



:mecry:

I like the big ugly clips. They sit deep in the pocket. The slide on bezel down clips leave the whole tailcap dangling out of your pocket. I have a ti moddoo clip like the new HDS clips and I put it on a twisty since they don't have screws. Maybe moddoo or wvaltakis or somebody can make a deepcarry slide-on clip.


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## tre (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Wow! I started this thread and then had to go to a clients. I'm back and this thread has taken on a life of its own:thumbsup:. I just read the 3 pages of info but I do have a question. What is the tint like on the 170? I am really becomming a tint snob. The older Zebralights are too pink for me and the new SC60 is too blue. Quarks are too green. Cool Fenix lights and Dereelights are WAY to blue/purple to me. I need a neutral tint but noticed that tint is only specifed for the "140 guaranteed tint" model which is 5700k - 6300k and that sounds too cool for me. On the other hand the high CRI is 3700k which may be a little warm and it is only 100 lumens. Does HDS offer a Neutral (~4500k) 170?


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## Coyote302 (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I agree with most of the comments by the other owners but I'll add a couple of my specific thoughts. I purchased a High CRI clicky a few months ago after researching things on this forum. I realize there are other high CRI lights but I don't think there are many and that uniqueness was one factor for me. When using it outdoors the advantage of high CRI is quickly apparent. I've gotten into digital photography the last few years (having kids leads to much more picture taking) and dealing with White Balance (WB) has made me much more aware of color temperature and the like. The difference between the flat, greyish, washed out look of a tree lit by a high powered, high CCT LED vs. that same tree with the high CRI is surprising. I realize high CRI and CCT are 2 different (but related) things but the point remains.

Regarding style, feel, design, fit and finish, etc, I think my view is little different from a few others here. I don't actually view the HDS Clicky as a particularly ascetically appealing light as far as shear beauty. I have Peaks that I think look better and my Mac's EDC in brass is much prettier (to me at least). I do think the HDS EDC's design is beautifully functional. The thick wall aluminum tubing is tough and light. The knurling and anodizing are very functional and I don't worry about scratching this light like one of my brass lights. The stainless bezel (in my case) is extra tough (compared to Al, brass, etc) and protects the vulnerable parts. The crenelations are great for seeing if the light is still on (I know many other lights have this). I use the beacon option that dimly flashes each 3 seconds. I do this just so I know the light is still working and is ready to go. I know it sounds cheesy but i think of this as a "heartbeat" and it is reassuring to see it when I open my bag. 

With all that said I think the biggest thing to me is the "dynamic range" and the UI. I didn't think the range would be that big of deal to me but the more I use the low modes the more impressive it is. After reading a thread on how people have their Clickies setup I changed a few settings and now have the following setup:

1 click - ~.1 lumens (forced to start on the triple click setting)
double click ~1 lumen
double click again ~10 lumen (double clicks toggle between 1 and 10)
hold or click press hold - max 100 lumens
a slow double click (off then on) gets me back to .1 lumens any time. The .1 lumen setting is actually the triple click setting but I don't have to do a triple click to access it this way.
The only thing I would change would be for a constant press from off to go straight to the max setting as a momentary. The momentary works but it goes to the forced super low triple click setting. It's not that big of a deal for me since I would rather the light came on super low to preserve night vision than have instant access to max high.

So at any time using a combination of fast/slow/holding double clicks I can get a range of 1000 (.1 to 100) broken down in meaningful 10X increments. I suppose there might be other lights out there that can do this but I haven't seen it. Sure my Mac's EDC puts out much more on high (1.4A >300 lumens?) but the lowest of the 3 levels is still so bright that it barely qualifies as a low compared to the HDS.

Since the original questions was "Why do you guys like HDS (Ra) lights so much?" I'll add my last personal point. They are very much an American product. They do source some components from overseas but the vast majority of the engineering, fabrication, assembly, and testing is performed in the US. That is issue for me. I essentially get paid by the American tax payers and feel it is appropriate to buy American where possible. This is obviously a personal point and wouldn't really apply to the many non-US citizens on this board. I have to admit that I don't even really look at the many non-US made lights regardless of their reputation. I can't keep the various brands, models, etc. straight but I do understand that some of them have significant followings. If there is something that does all the things the HDS Clicky then that might be an option for others. For me the price difference isn't that big of a deal. As someone pointed out earlier, I just spent $140 for a pair of high quality (US made) running shoes that will last 3-6 months of actual use. The HDS Clicky will obviously last much longer than that.

I think my best summary would be that the HDS Clicky is the one light that I have closest to me most of time and I never hesitate to grab it wondering if it has enough power, too much power, worry about scratching, etc.

Hope this was helpful.
-Rich


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## kaichu dento (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Coyote302 said:


> The only thing I would change would be for a constant press from off to go straight to the max setting as a momentary. The momentary works but it goes to the forced super low triple click setting. It's not that big of a deal for me since I would rather the light came on super low to preserve night vision than have instant access to max high.


The way I set up my Clicky is to have instant access to my main setting from off - momentary if I hold the button down and on if I simply click it. For max I just do a quick double click and there it is, every last available lumen in an instant.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



nbp said:


> :mecry:
> 
> I like the big ugly clips. They sit deep in the pocket. The slide on bezel down clips leave the whole tailcap dangling out of your pocket. I have a ti moddoo clip like the new HDS clips and I put it on a twisty since they don't have screws. Maybe moddoo or wvaltakis or somebody can make a deepcarry slide-on clip.





I didn't mean to offend the MOLLE HDS clip fraternity 

BTW, Chip will be doing a Ti clip run very soon that will fulfill your deep carry needs. Check out the Customs B/S/T section.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Coyote302 said:


> I agree with most of the comments by the other owners but I'll add a couple of my specific thoughts. I purchased a High CRI clicky a few months ago after researching things on this forum. I realize there are other high CRI lights but I don't think there are many and that uniqueness was one factor for me. When using it outdoors the advantage of high CRI is quickly apparent. I've gotten into digital photography the last few years (having kids leads to much more picture taking) and dealing with White Balance (WB) has made me much more aware of color temperature and the like. The difference between the flat, greyish, washed out look of a tree lit by a high powered, high CCT LED vs. that same tree with the high CRI is surprising. I realize high CRI and CCT are 2 different (but related) things but the point remains.
> 
> Regarding style, feel, design, fit and finish, etc, I think my view is little different from a few others here. I don't actually view the HDS Clicky as a particularly ascetically appealing light as far as shear beauty. I have Peaks that I think look better and my Mac's EDC in brass is much prettier (to me at least). I do think the HDS EDC's design is beautifully functional. The thick wall aluminum tubing is tough and light. The knurling and anodizing are very functional and I don't worry about scratching this light like one of my brass lights. The stainless bezel (in my case) is extra tough (compared to Al, brass, etc) and protects the vulnerable parts. The crenelations are great for seeing if the light is still on (I know many other lights have this). I use the beacon option that dimly flashes each 3 seconds. I do this just so I know the light is still working and is ready to go. I know it sounds cheesy but i think of this as a "heartbeat" and it is reassuring to see it when I open my bag.
> 
> ...



Bravo !! That's a well thought out and articulated post.


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## Pliauga (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Damn, now I'm really torn between my curiosity and my wallet... AGAIN!
lovecpf


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## jellydonut (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Brasso said:


> Quote: If that thing had a momentary tailcap as well it would be the perfect light and I could sell most of what else I have.
> 
> 
> It does. It does dang near anything you want it to UI wise. You can program it to work as a momentary and a clicky. At the same time. Press once for constant on. Or, press and hold for momentary. When you release it turns off. All at the same time!


I realize the versatility, but I meant a momentary in conjunction with the twisty. So that it would work like a McGizmo PD with three levels.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I want a proper PD light that I can buy.  I'll stay out of this thread now..


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## chanjyj (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



tre said:


> Wow! I started this thread and then had to go to a clients. I'm back and this thread has taken on a life of its own:thumbsup:. I just read the 3 pages of info but I do have a question. What is the tint like on the 170? I am really becomming a tint snob. The older Zebralights are too pink for me and the new SC60 is too blue. Quarks are too green. Cool Fenix lights and Dereelights are WAY to blue/purple to me. I need a neutral tint but noticed that tint is only specifed for the "140 guaranteed tint" model which is 5700k - 6300k and that sounds too cool for me. On the other hand the high CRI is 3700k which may be a little warm and it is only 100 lumens. Does HDS offer a Neutral (~4500k) 170?


 
The tint is greenish for me. Perhaps I was lucked out on the tint lottery.


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## chanjyj (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



kaichu dento said:


> The way I set up my Clicky is to have instant access to my main setting from off - momentary if I hold the button down and on if I simply click it. For max I just do a quick double click and there it is, every last available lumen in an instant.


 
One thing I want to caution anyone who may purchase this light for tactical/military usage is the 'momentary' is slow to come on. (2nd momentary mode, click, press-and-hold) By a few milliseconds, but I can feel it.

Using it in any other situation doesn't bother me (eg, volunteer first aider and firefighter). But when bringing the light out for FIBUA (military reserves), I'd not take this light as a *primary light*.


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## kaichu dento (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



chanjyj said:


> One thing I want to caution anyone who may purchase this light for tactical/military usage is the 'momentary' is slow to come on. By a few milliseconds, but I can feel it.
> 
> Using it in any other situation doesn't bother me (eg, volunteer first aider and firefighter). But when bringing the light out for FIBUA (military reserves), I'd not take this light as a *primary light*.


I don't know if there are differences light to light, but mine have been instantaneous to momentary, taking a moment longer to the max mode. I would make a couple changes from my EDC programming, but considering that the Marines are carrying Henry's lights, I think they're already military approved.


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## Henk_Lu (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



tre said:


> Wow! I started this thread and then had to go to a clients. I'm back and this thread has taken on a life of its own:thumbsup:. I just read the 3 pages of info but I do have a question. What is the tint like on the 170? I am really becomming a tint snob. The older Zebralights are too pink for me and the new SC60 is too blue. Quarks are too green. Cool Fenix lights and Dereelights are WAY to blue/purple to me. I need a neutral tint but noticed that tint is only specifed for the "140 guaranteed tint" model which is 5700k - 6300k and that sounds too cool for me. On the other hand the high CRI is 3700k which may be a little warm and it is only 100 lumens. Does HDS offer a Neutral (~4500k) 170?



The Osram GDP is a bit special in tint, difficult to explain and there are variations of course. I have a 170Cn (currently getting a new emitter, my fault...) and a Ti Clicky. Both have the same emitter, but I guess those for the Titaniums underwent a severe selection process.

So, my 170Cn was rather cool, white in the hotspot, changing to slightly yellowish in the corona to become purplish in the spill, on the edge of the beam. It is not that tinted as different Fenix lights, the light is still white! I see this phenomenon on other lights using the GPD as well.

My Titanium on the other side is also white, but slightly yellowish tinted, you may say golden, as it is an expensive light... Side by side, the Titanium looks much nicer, it is a tick brighter as well, the hotspot is better defined, the one on my 170Cn was somewhat blurry, it was while trying to fix that, that I broke the ceramic (or whatever it is...) around the emitter.

Let's also say that my 170Cn is from 6/2009 and I'm curious how the beam wil look like with the new emitter.

There's actually no neutral white from HDS, perhaps it'll come? The P4 look slightly warmer to my eyes. My 140 GT looks nearly exactly as my 140C, which means that I was lucky with the 140C. Of course the light is white, to my eyes slightly yellowish tinted in the spill. The high CRI is yellow to orange and the corona is even brownish, going back to yellowish in the spill. I often say that the high CRI has like a brownish ring around the hotspot. This is white wall hunting, the high CRI is made to be used in nature, where it renders colors perfectly.

All this is difficult to explain, you need to search for beamshots and those vary from screen to screen. To be honest, only seeing is believing! :wave:


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## chanjyj (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



kaichu dento said:


> I don't know if there are differences light to light, but mine have been instantaneous to momentary, taking a moment longer to the max mode. I would make a couple changes from my EDC programming, but considering that the Marines are carrying Henry's lights, I think they're already military approved.



No difference light to light.

I'm referring to the 2nd momentary mode (click, press and hold, release).
The 1st momentary mode doesn't have a delay (click, release)

Of course, you could program it to come on at full brightness (press and hold).
The delay is inevitable due to the UI interface itself. If you were to simplify the UI you would solve the problem - but then you wouldn't have so many modes also. An acceptable compromise.

Military approved doesn't always mean it's the best. Eg, the classic anglehead torch. I've seen this firsthand.


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## RobertM (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



ma_sha1 said:


> It has to have a "best something" to stand out. Bimmers are known for "best handling". I don't have a HDS, but from all the posts above, looks like the HDS have the "best compromise" i.e. the most # of desirable features by the most people.
> 
> May be they "listen to the customers"?


Actually...the new Mustang runs right with the M3 around the track now. 



carrot said:


> No, I think "buy one, to see what you're missing" is more effective. And it's why I'm ordering my first HDS Clicky today. :thumbsup:


Congrats! You won't be disappointed.



jellydonut said:


> I like these threads, usually the owners are very outspoken and anyone reading will quickly know what's so great about x light.
> 
> My wallet doesn't like them though, they've resulted in over half a dozen Surefire A2s and a Surefire M6 now. :fail:


Yeah, these treads can definitely be dangerous for your wallet.  But aren't you glad you bought the A2 and M6? 



bmcgators98 said:


> As far as cost is concerned, yes it is expensive. However I have found that by owning these lights (I currently have the 170 and the CRI) I have actually spent less money. Prior to their purchase I was buying 2 or 3 $50 lights a month. Problem was that I was not really satisfied with anything I purchased. Once I bought these I was happy. I find the lights very similar to Chris Reeve Sebenzas. True top of the line production pieces that are as close to perfect design as you can get. Neither are the smallest, lightest, latest, greatest, etc but the sum of all the parts exceeds anything out there.
> 
> As for which to buy first the 170 or the CRI. I would go with the 170 then the CRI.


This reconfirms that I'm going to have to save up and eventually just buy a Sebenza. I hear nothing but great things. It's like the HDS EDC of knives. 



mefistofele86 said:


> I was one of those who don't look at ra clicky. After reading "must have" list and many discussions i became very curious about this flashlight. On the other hand i was looking for high CRI.
> 1+1=2 i just bought Ra clicky high CRI and now i can understand
> Don't worry about numbers.. this light is powerfull and i like it for its color rendition (but it's just my led), for its strenght feeling, for its perfect beam, for programmability and finally i find it very very ergonomic. I have a medium sized hand, i feel it as "my flashlight".
> It has only a great defect... i would like to see with eyes the 170...


I too was never really that interested in the Clicky and didn't understand what all the fuss was about. But, I had desired a high CRI, non-homemade/modified flashlight for quite a while. Once the high-CRI P4 became available, I had to get one. Not only do I love the emitter, but now I completely understand why everyone loves these lights! 



recDNA said:


> Then it can't be an XP-G R5. What is it? XR-E R2, XP-E R2?
> 
> 
> If drawing 1.5 amps it should get very hot.
> ...


You might be forgetting that when your power source has a lower voltage than what the emitter requires for maximum output, the batter will need to make up that deficit by supplying higher current (via the driver). Tailcap current does not necessarily equal current at the emitter.


So, why do I love my HDS EDC High CRI:

High CRI LED - Color rendition, tint, and beam quality is a must for me.
Small - While not as small as some other lights, it fits perfectly fine in my left front pocket for EDC.
User Interface - While the program does take a few minutes to initially figure out, have the ability to customize it exactly how you want is great.
Build Quality
Warranty and Customer Service

Also, after owning my HDS EDC, I've learning that it really takes A LOT of light to really make a noticeable difference. The brightness steps on the Clicky really demonstrate it well. I barely notice when it steps down from 100 to 70. When I click again to reengage the max mode, I am usually surprised by how little difference the ~42% increase in brightness is.
With this being said, if a Clicky 170 had one more step up, it would put it at ~240 lumens. Honestly, I don't think it would be very noticeable based on what I've learned and seen. I think your perception of brightness would be more influenced by beam pattern when comparing to some other light than the true output difference.

I love my High CRI Clicky, even with its _measly_ 100 lumens. As carrot once pointed out, Brightness Isn't Everything.


----------



## Gatsby (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Some very well thought out replies - and some interesting angles and perspectives.

I'd like to augment a few points already made. 

_Bandwidth_. I'll admit that back in the Arc 4+ and B42 days 4 levels felt a little bit like overkill. I mostly used mine as three speed lights at the time because the visual difference between levels wasn't significant in daily use. It was nice to have but not essential. I would argue that with modern emitters and north of 100 being standard that 4 levels are quite useful and I use all of them regularly. McGizmo has argued as much in his design decision to move toward three level light designs and away from the two level PD (I know this is more complicated but no question modern emitters make three levels at minimum seem quite useful). Still many lights manage wide bandwidths - some of them with quite nice programming (the LF3XT comes to mind). Which leads to...

_UI_. How you access these levels impacts the overall utility of the light for any individual user. The HDS "multi toggle direct" approach really is unique and the ability to customize how it interacts is both simple and able to create a very unique experience for the user. The LF3XT in my opinion comes closest and it still isn't as user friendly in my opinion. While this may not matter to some - it matters a great deal to me and I have been and continue to be very devoted to this UI. Once you use it for a short time it is quite intuitive and handy. But that depends on what matters to you as a user, which leads to...

_Utility_. I've liked what some have already said about this matter and thought I'd throw my spin on it. We all achieve a certain amount of "utils" from whatever we do and how we allocated our capital. Our personal utility to capital outlay curve varies by person, and across potential expenditures. Many including myself have something of a plateau where additional capital does not derive additional utils, and in some cases might actually decrease overall utils. I try with nearly every expenditure to find what I perceive to be the sweet spot on my utility curve and I think many of us do the same. We all have multiple principals and guidelines that are inputs to our utility curves. 

For example, I admit that I would rather have one or two items that for me represent a higher quality level than many less quality items. I tend to place a higher value on build quality, reliability and longevity for many items. I somewhat devalue status and prestige. As a non light related example, I've owned 3 cars that I purchased totally on my own, an Acura Integra that I drove for 10 years, an Infiniti QX4 that I drove for 9 and a Honda Civic Hybrid I've had for 1.5 years. All were more expensive than some alternatives, less expensive than others and represented the best "bang for the buck" for the kind of vehicle I was looking to purchase at the time. Two of them have been quite reliable (the hybrid is too soon to tell but I admit that while 42mpg on average is nice - I'm having some buyers remorse given the price paid for that mileage in terms of the driving experience and even safety... but that is another topic). 

Certain products represent a specific utility curve of their own - what they provide relative to other qualities. Ideally what a product or experience provides somewhat matches your own utility curve for that kind of product or experience. Recdna has willingly said that his utility curve places a high value on total output per dollar. Relatively speaking total output is not the highest priority for Henry. Consequently it is not perhaps the best match for him or for others. What UI you like as Carrot has indicated can also impact the fit - as the UI is a high priority item for HDS and the design decisions in that UI might not fit, or the UI in general may not matter.

What is clear is that for many posting here - the relative design decisions and value proposition offered by Henry and his lineage of lights is a relatively close match for our utility curves! What matters to us and is valued on our curve has been fairly well covered thus far... :naughty:

I will say this as well - Henry is not an industrial designer. I obviously am fond of his engineerng and programming skills, but all the way back to the HDS B and U lights they are flat out ugly. Utilitarian and practical, for sure, but ugly. However, while it matters some to me I'm willing to sacrifice that for function at least with a light.


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## Brasso (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

If you use the momentary function and disable the turn on preset, the light will come on the last level used. If you turn it on to high, and turn it off, the next time it comes on will be on high. Or medium. Or low. Or whatever. You can use it as a clicky if pressed once for constant on, or press and hold for momentary.

Mine is set to come about 10 lumens. Double click to med. Press and hold for high. Triple click for the lowest setting. I have momentary enabled and turn on preset disabled.

TeknoCowboy modded mine with a neutral xpg and it's brighter and a nicer tint for my eyes. It looks to be the same brightness as my Quark 2AA neutral at 200 lumens, maybe brighter. I'll call it 200 lumens.


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## kaichu dento (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



chanjyj said:


> No difference light to light.
> 
> I'm referring to the 2nd momentary mode (click, press and hold, release).
> The 1st momentary mode doesn't have a delay (click, release)
> ...


That was my point, that you made it sound in the previous post as if there was a delay on the first momentary mode which is inaccurate and it's good to see you've corrected that in your present post to what most of us owners already know about the operation. Since people are continually using the content of these threads to determine whether or not to buy makes accuracy pretty important in our statements.

The fact of the matter remains that it's not a bad light for military usage and your mention of an ancient light has little to do with Henry's lights. It's understood by all that mistakes are made, but you've drawn a connection between the anglehead light and your assertion that the Clicky is no good for military usage and I simply disagree with you on that point.

Still your opinion stands as what it is, your opinion.


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## flatline (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



chanjyj said:


> Military approved doesn't always mean it's the best. Eg, the classic anglehead torch. I've seen this firsthand.



Out of curiosity, what's wrong with the classic anglehead torch?

--flatline


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## TITANER (Oct 22, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I did't get a HDS (RA) light now,but i will buy one for a try in one day .


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## chanjyj (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



kaichu dento said:


> That was my point, that you made it sound in the previous post as if there was a delay on the first momentary mode which is inaccurate and it's good to see you've corrected that in your present post to what most of us owners already know about the operation. Since people are continually using the content of these threads to determine whether or not to buy makes accuracy pretty important in our statements.
> 
> *Agreed.*
> 
> ...


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## chanjyj (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



flatline said:


> Out of curiosity, what's wrong with the classic anglehead torch?
> 
> --flatline



Nothing wrong with the anglehead per se. I do like its shape and ability to take a beating.

My initial assertion was that military procurement may not always buy the best stuff. It doesn't mean that the stuff they bought was inherently flawed either, there could be better stuff out on the market for the same price.


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## John_Galt (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Because of this right here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3570579&postcount=895

The ability to survive a nuclear apocalypse should be enough to convince anyone...


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## Capt. Nemo (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Gonna be a huge dork here - 

Anyone ever torture test one of these beside what's on the HDS website? Specifically, I'd like to see if it would stand up to a .45 cal ACP FMJ from 10 yards. Not straight down the head, but from the side. I'd sell off every light I own and only carry these if it made it. :sick2:

-done being a dork now...


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## Connor (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Capt. Nemo said:


> Specifically, I'd like to see if it would stand up to a .45 cal ACP FMJ from 10 yards. Not straight down the head, but from the side.



Well, this will obviously make a *huge* dent into the light's body, possibly destroying the reflector/electronics/battery depending on where you hit it exactly. 
Quite frankly I think this is an unreasonable thing to ask of a flashlight. :duh2:


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## Blades (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I didn't read all 4 pages, but the one main thing I like about my HDS/Ra: Henry. Sometimes it is about people and not the product.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Blades said:


> I didn't read all 4 pages, but the one main thing I like about my HDS/Ra: Henry. Sometimes it is about people and not the product.



Yep.......he's the best advertisement for his products.


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## CLBME (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

+1 Blades. My sentiments too.



Blades said:


> I didn't read all 4 pages, but the one main thing I like about my HDS/Ra: Henry. Sometimes it is about people and not the product.


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## Capt. Nemo (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Connor said:


> Well, this will obviously make a *huge* dent into the light's body, possibly destroying the reflector/electronics/battery depending on where you hit it exactly.
> Quite frankly I think this is an unreasonable thing to ask of a flashlight. :duh2:



I agree, but it would raise the status to nothing but legendary. 

I'll be picking one at some point to see what all the hype is about. Not sure I'd be willing to put it on the line in that way since they aren't cheap.

Carry on...


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



tre said:


> (Edit: I just read a thread about a bunch of failures but it sounds like HDS customer service is top notch)


 
I'm just curious about this statement. Where did you read about the bunch of failures ? No doubt there have been failures in the past but I don't remember reading about anything recently. I'm just wondering if I've missed something.....?


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## pjandyho (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Belstaff1464 said:


> I'm just curious about this statement. Where did you read about the bunch of failures ? No doubt there have been failures in the past but I don't remember reading about anything recently. I'm just wondering if I've missed something.....?



I guess he was referring to some who have problems with a faulty capacitor which resulted in rapid draining of batteries, and I am one of them whom this unfortunate rare occurrence had happened. It is quite an isolated problem but it seems to be the main problem bugging HDS lights. Other than this issue, I know of no other problems.


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## Darkspark (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Well, i just got my first Clicky high Cri edc executive bout a month ago and it's great...if you want to know why, just see the other ten million gushing posts on this forum. It really is a bad-*** light....and Henry has never ceased to be helpful, in fact, it was because of his willingness to answer all my questions so readily that i thought i really couldn't go wrong with one of his lights.:thumbsup: 
Me buying another one is...how you say...inevitable.


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## MrBenchmark (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

The reasons I really like this light are simple:
1. It is VERY high quality and exceedingly well made. It is OBVIOUS when you pick up the light. 
2. For what it is, it represents a perfect or nearly perfect design and execution.

I've felt this way about very few other lights I've owned - mostly some of the surefire lights - they are very well made and perfect examples of design and execution. 

Note that perfection doesn't mean that it has the highest specs in every category, or the best price, or most suited for every possible job, etc. All objects we make involve tradeoffs. Perfection to me implies that the tradeoffs are made very carefully and thoughtfully and that the tool in question performs the intended function as well as can possibly be accomplished given the current state of the art. 

In my opinion, the HDS lights are perfect. It's interesting to me that the designer of these lights seems to continuously evaluate the tradeoffs he's made, and improve on them where he can. 

BTW, I don't mean to take anything away from other makers - there are some excellent lights available that vastly exceed most people's needs and are also bargains compared to the HDS lights. Most of these lights aren't perfect, and most of 'em are nowhere near as durable. Not everyone appreciates these qualities, or is willing to pay for them. That's OK too.


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## mefistofele86 (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



pjandyho said:


> I guess he was referring to some who have problems with *a faulty capacitor* which resulted in rapid draining of batteries, and I am one of them whom this unfortunate rare occurrence had happened. It is quite an isolated problem but it seems to be the main problem bugging HDS lights. Other than this issue, I know of no other problems.



What serial number has your defective ra clicky? Thank you


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## Gaffle (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I have never been real into CR123 lights. That has finally changed. I want a RA Clicky real bad. Real real bad.

As far as I can tell the only difference between the Executive and Tactical is the finish. Tactical has the anodized bezel and Exe has polished stainless.

That being the case I want the EDC Custom.

1. 170 OTF

2. I would want the titanium polished bezel

3. Sapphire lens

4. Raised button

5. Executive operation. Momentary Max, first click Low Low, 2 clicks Max, 3 clicks Medium.

This light is even better since Henry explained that the electronics are incased in a Faraday cage. Frickin awesome....:thumbsup:


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## Russ/TN (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Mmmmm......Clicky.
The light so nice, I bought it twice! (had to try the high CRI)

Learn the interface and carry one for a month or so, and you will
have answered the question.

1. Durability
2. Ergonomics
3. Customization of the U.I.
4. Customer service.

Just something about the whole package that works for me.


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## flatline (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Gaffle said:


> I have never been real into CR123 lights. That has finally changed. I want a RA Clicky real bad. Real real bad.



Even though I exclusively run rechargeable cells, I like the ability to use easily available primary cells if I need to, which I why I stick mostly with AA lights. I make an exception for 18650 cells since salvaged cells are free and the capacity is so huge. I made an exception for the Ra Clicky since it has a unique set of features that I couldn't get in any other light (and caring for RCR123s is really no different than caring for the 18650 cells I already use), but I fully expect the Ra Clicky to be the only CR123 light I carry in the foreseeable future.

--flatline


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## John_Galt (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



mefistofele86 said:


> What serial number has your defective ra clicky? Thank you




Why would that matter?


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## flatline (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



mefistofele86 said:


> What serial number has your defective ra clicky? Thank you



Isn't the serial only printed on the bezel? If so, the serial gives no real indication on when the light was actually made. I've got the smooth bezel and its serial is less than 10000 even though my light is new.

--flatline


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## iacchus (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Yeah, I think the bezels are engraved with a serial #, then when the light is put together, whatever bezel is called for goes on and the light ships.

Henry has said somewhere before that he doesn't keep a master list of what each serialized bezel is attached to. Really, I suppose it is more for use by the owner than HDS themselves.
Our records or what have you.

For example...
I got the serials of my two clickys tattooed across my knuckles!


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## chanjyj (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



flatline said:


> Isn't the serial only printed on the bezel? If so, the serial gives no real indication on when the light was actually made. I've got the smooth bezel and its serial is less than 10000 even though my light is new.
> 
> --flatline



Heck, I bought a new bezel from Henry and the new bezel has a new serial number.

The serial number, to the best of my knowledge is not an indication of anything except the bezel's date of production.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



pjandyho said:


> I guess he was referring to some who have problems with a faulty capacitor which resulted in rapid draining of batteries, and I am one of them whom this unfortunate rare occurrence had happened. It is quite an isolated problem but it seems to be the main problem bugging HDS lights. Other than this issue, I know of no other problems.


 

Maybe that's what the OP is referring to although, but I wouldn't exactly call that a "bunch". Plus, I was wondering if the OP was referring to the missing lens and the scratched+dusty reflector. If he was, then I would imagine most would not define those as failures. Failures to me would be a non-working light, or not being able to access one of the modes, flickering, or glitches in the UI or programming, etc. The lens and scratched reflector incidents I would categorize as a lapse in quality control.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> No, but I would _exclude_ a car due to a slow 0-60 time regardless of how it handled or other factors. I exclude the RA due to the low lumen/dollar ratio.


Lumen isn't everything. In fact, when I'm evaluating a flashlight, maximum brightness is lowest on my list of priorities. I often wonder how many people who are wowed by a high lumen rating when shopping for a flashlight actually ever find a use for that much light beyond impressing their friends. I've found for general everyday use that anything over 70 lumen is more than bright enough.


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## bedazzLED (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

Hi all.

I've been reading this thread with interest and thought I'd add my thoughts to it also.

I have a bunch of other torches of various battery formats, sizes, lumens output, throw, flood, ..., but never owned one of the HDS torches.

With all the dedicated followers of these torches I thought I'd better buy one and try it out for myself, and now with an Australian distributor, I finally got myself a Executive 120.

The verdict?

I've just ordered the Tactical 170 !

These torches are just absolutely fantastic. The construction, output, UI, price, general feel about it, all come together into an all-round great package.

Don't think I can actually pick any real issues with it at all.

I thought my SureFires were great, but the HDS' do beat them in three categories; ruggedness, price and UI.

If the Executive 120 is great, can't wait until the Tactical 170 arrives!


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## iacchus (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



bedazzLED said:


> I finally got myself a Executive 120.
> 
> The verdict?
> 
> I've just ordered the Tactical 170 !!



Hahaha. Awesome.



> If the Executive 120 is great, can't wait until the Tactical 170 arrives!



You will love it. The 170 is a great light. You might as well start sourcing a High CRI. You will likely want one of those next....


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## GarageBoy (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

How much of an efficiency hit do I take by going with the HIGH CRI option? Will it be worse than say and XRE P4?


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## sawlight (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



recDNA said:


> I seldom see used ones on the Marketplace and when I do they are still expensive.
> 
> My main concern is brightness. Does it draw 1.4 amps or more? If not it simply cannot be as bright as some less expensive yet very functional and bombproof flashlights. I still don't think it is bright enough for the difference in price.
> 
> ...




I haven't read all of this thread, but I saw this and felt compelled to reply.
I carried my Novatac 120P EVERY DAY for four years, it had been dropped 35ft onto a 3/4" steel plate, lost in a snow bank overnight, buried in mud for half a day, went surf fishing at 3am in the ocean. It had been through it all! About seven months ago the switch got finicky, I emailed and got a new one. That was the ONLY problem I'd had with it. I finally couldn't resist and was about to buy a RA then I found out about the KF2 upgrade and did that and a UCL lens. New light, $30! With that setup it would out throw my 9P with an EO-9 drop-in!
It just does EVERYTHING! It's not the brightest, or the best throw, but it's good, it's not the best regulation, but it's good, without a doubt it has the best PWM on the market! The ability to go down to .7 lumen was great when I was going to work at 3:30am and I couldn't find something, it didn't wake my wife up and I could see looking around the bedroom. Same with hunting, it was just enough light to move around safely, but not kill your night vision.
Most times the 30 lumen mode was what I needed, but the 10 was sure handy when I needed it. Most times I didn't need the 120 mode, but it sure would AWE a lot of people easily, and when I needed it, boy did it work!
Yes, it's a little bigger than it could be, yes it's a little heavier, no it's the the brightest light you could carry, but it gives you ALL the options to be whatever you need it to be, whenever you need it to be that. It's a tool, and in my opinion it's the best tool you could get for this application, it's handy, it durable, the beam is awsome, with more options than you can use in a lifetime.
If you don't get it, then don't get it as another poster said, if you want two modes and don't really care what they are, don't get it. If you can't understand what all the fuss is about, then don't get it. I'm good with that, I'm sure Henry is good with that, it's not for everyone, although it can be. Henry has listened to us and continuously evolved and improved this light as it has gone forth.
Unfortunately I've lost my Novatac and I can't spend the money to replace it right now. (Times are tough all over) But as soon as I can, I'll be looking for either an old gen. Novatac 120P or a RA clicky. Once you have one, you NEVER want to be without it!


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## flatline (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



GarageBoy said:


> How much of an efficiency hit do I take by going with the HIGH CRI option? Will it be worse than say and XRE P4?



It's my understanding that the 140 is a P4, so I'd guess you lose 40 lumens by going with high CRI over the regular P4.

Pure speculation based on possibly misunderstood information.

--flatline


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## kaichu dento (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Belstaff1464 said:


> Maybe that's what the OP is referring to although, but I wouldn't exactly call that a "bunch". Plus, I was wondering if the OP was referring to the missing lens and the scratched+dusty reflector. If he was, then I would imagine most would not define those as failures. Failures to me would be a non-working light, or not being able to access one of the modes, flickering, or glitches in the UI or programming, etc. The lens and scratched reflector incidents I would categorize as a lapse in quality control.


I wouldn't say 'a bunch' and I wouldn't say 'failures' either, the lights have still been operable. Maybe a more accurate statement would be that there's been some problems, or issues. Failure is much worse by degrees I'd say and a handful is more accurate for numbers.


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## bedazzLED (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



iacchus said:


> Hahaha. Awesome.
> 
> You will love it. The 170 is a great light. You might as well start sourcing a High CRI. You will likely want one of those next....



Hi iacchus.

This is not the news I necessarily need to be reminded off; one more torch to source :shakehead

I'm still trying to figure out how to justify this months purchases, let alone a new High CRI.

So far this month, 1 Executive 120, 1 Tactical 170 (on it's way), 1 SureFire 6P (on it's way) to house the Malkoff M61 I just got. 

Luckily for me that MD3 Wildcat 750 lumen triple LED torch was out of stock!

wallet = MAJOR OUCH!


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## flatline (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



bedazzLED said:


> Hi iacchus.
> 
> This is not the news I necessarily need to be reminded off; one more torch to source :shakehead
> 
> ...



Wow! You'll need to get a second job to be able to keep up that pace!


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



kaichu dento said:


> I wouldn't say 'a bunch' and I wouldn't say 'failures' either, the lights have still been operable. Maybe a more accurate statement would be that there's been some problems, or issues. Failure is much worse by degrees I'd say and a handful is more accurate for numbers.


 
Yep.....I agree and that's why I was seeking clarification. "A bunch of failures" conjures up a lot of non-working Clickies. Even the rare battery drain issue I probably wouldn't necessarily classify as a "failure" because the light was functioning properly apart from the parasitic drain, althought I can see why others may. It may just be a difference in the OP's definition.......or he may have some other source of info other than CPF.


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## bedazzLED (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



flatline said:


> Wow! You'll need to get a second job to be able to keep up that pace!



Either that or if the Wife finally finds out where all my hard-earned goes each month


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## iacchus (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



bedazzLED said:


> Hi iacchus.
> 
> This is not the news I necessarily need to be reminded off; one more torch to source :shakehead
> 
> ...



Lights like that, they justify themselves! Nice haul, man.

I know what you mean about the wildcat. I feel the same way. Had they been in stock, soon after I'm sure my wife would have been beating me over the head with one.

Well, maybe a High CRI next month, eh?


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## kaichu dento (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



Belstaff1464 said:


> Yep.....I agree and that's why I was seeking clarification. "A bunch of failures" conjures up a lot of non-working Clickies. Even the rare battery drain issue I probably wouldn't necessarily classify as a "failure" because the light was functioning properly apart from the parasitic drain, althought I can see why others may. It may just be a difference in the OP's definition.......or he may have some other source of info other than CPF.


+1.

I don't consider quick drain as a failure any more than I think of a car running rich and using too much gas as non-running. They both still operate, albeit at a less efficient level than they were designed for.


----------



## the.Mtn.Man (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



GarageBoy said:


> How much of an efficiency hit do I take by going with the HIGH CRI option? Will it be worse than say and XRE P4?


For what it's worth, all HDS lights are rated for a minimum 1.25 hour run time on the highest setting (one step down from burst); and by "run time" I mean constant brightness.


----------



## eh4 (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

yeah, necro post.
It sounds a lot like "Why pay so much for a Gransfors Bruks axe when you could just get a Snow and Neally?" (Snow and Neally makes a good axe btw)
-because you really appreciate a well made axe. (with a 20 year warranty on the head/handle interface no less, LOL!!!)

I say skimp on all the small stuff that constitutes the majority of situations and spare no expense, accept no substitutes for the essentials.


----------



## kadinh (Nov 1, 2011)

My flashlight evolution has gone this way:

- iTP EOS A3 SS
- 4sevens quark 123
- 4sevens quark neutral 123*2
- elektrolumens edc mce
- 4sevens quark turbo x
- 4sevens mini x
- HDS rotary 200

I was impressed with the lumen output on the 4-7 lights, but aftet a while, functionality and durability come before brightness. After i bought the rotary, I have not felt a need to look for another light. It feels way more durable than my 4-7 lights and I don't worry about dropping it. I have it programmed exactly the way I want it and the rotary function is second to none in my book. Since I received the rotary, I have not carried any of my other lights. 

I have wanted to buy another light...the HDS High CRI!!! I am a firm believer in HDS.


----------



## shane45_1911 (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I have to be honest...

As much as I like the quality, programabilty, and UI of the HDS - the fact that it goes as low as 0.07 lm is what really sold me.


----------



## TyJo (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

And this was asked pre-rotary. I'm sure the basics have been covered: quality, programability, UI, customer service, etc... it is the best EDC I have found. Personally, I really like the unique features like the electronic UI, and the custom options like burst and button lock. Best UI out there, only thing that comes close is probably Zebralight IMO. I have been looking at 1 cell lights lately, and it's hard to beat the button lock for me. I like being able lock my light and throw it in a pocket, bag, whatever and not worry about it being dead when I need it. I love the burst option as well, barely noticeable drop, can be programmed out, and greatly increases runtime. If I change my mind I can reprogram the light... truly a unique, top of the line light.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



TyJo said:


> And this was asked pre-rotary. I'm sure the basics have been covered: quality, programability, UI, customer service, etc... it is the best EDC I have found. Personally, I really like the unique features like the electronic UI, and the custom options like burst and button lock. Best UI out there, only thing that comes close is probably Zebralight IMO. I have been looking at 1 cell lights lately, and it's hard to beat the button lock for me. I like being able lock my light and throw it in a pocket, bag, whatever and not worry about it being dead when I need it. I love the burst option as well, barely noticeable drop, can be programmed out, and greatly increases runtime. If I change my mind I can reprogram the light... truly a unique, top of the line light.


I just got an SC51w last week and must say that if the levels were programmable, or at least the low level capability of the Clicky, that I'd almost be swayed to carry it over the Clicky. 
As Shane just noted, for some of us the .07 low is one of the notable tie-breakers when it comes to making a choice, and the Clicky also wins out over any Zebralight when it comes to swapping emitters out, since ZL's are apparently unmoddable, while all of Henry's lights are very mod friendly.


----------



## primox1 (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



kaichu dento said:


> Clicky also wins out over any Zebralight when it comes to swapping emitters out, since ZL's are apparently unmoddable, while all of Henry's lights are very mod friendly.



Are the HDS lights, specifically the new rotary R1S, emitter swappable when the user knows nothing about modding? This light has my interest, and it be nice to know that the light can be "upgraded" in the future.


----------



## tsask (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

talked to Henry on phone, good guy. knows his biz bigtime! ordered the RA 18650 twisty high cri, then had to get ANOTHER cool version. then I found parts and a high cri head from Henry and a THIRD was added to my collection. Holding one will answer alot of questions.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



primox1 said:


> Are the HDS lights, specifically the new rotary R1S, emitter swappable when the user knows nothing about modding? This light has my interest, and it be nice to know that the light can be "upgraded" in the future.


I haven't done any modding on lights but can say that most things of this nature are doable by anyone with enough patience, but you'd probably be best served to have a clean area set up to work on your lights.

There are lots of modders here in the forums, and the numbers grow everyday, so you'll have no shortage of information available here, but just as any other field, some will be better than others and some lights will bring difficulties not experienced with others. Unless I'm mistaken, Henry's lights are not particularly difficult, but getting direct word from someone with experience would be best.


----------



## TyJo (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



kaichu dento said:


> I just got an SC51w last week and must say that if the levels were programmable, or at least the low level capability of the Clicky, that I'd almost be swayed to carry it over the Clicky.
> As Shane just noted, for some of us the .07 low is one of the notable tie-breakers when it comes to making a choice, and the Clicky also wins out over any Zebralight when it comes to swapping emitters out, since ZL's are apparently unmoddable, while all of Henry's lights are very mod friendly.


I agree the HDS Systems wins, that is why I said Zebralight is close. I'm unfamiliar with modding the lights. I don't see how HDS wins in this "modding" category especially since modding the light will void the amazing warranty.


kaichu dento said:


> I haven't done any modding on lights but can say that most things of this nature are doable by anyone with enough patience, but you'd probably be best served to have a clean area set up to work on your lights.
> 
> There are lots of modders here in the forums, and the numbers grow everyday, so you'll have no shortage of information available here, but just as any other field, some will be better than others and some lights will bring difficulties not experienced with others. Unless I'm mistaken, Henry's lights are not particularly difficult, but getting direct word from someone with experience would be best.


I don't recommend this if you plan to use the HDS Systems warranty.
EDIT: These lights are potted well for durability... good luck swapping out your emitters, and potentially voiding your warrenty. I don't know how Henry handles these modifications and I don't plan on finding out.


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## jalal20 (Nov 2, 2011)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

I just saw this thread and don't have the time to go through all five pages of replies so if I have said something that someone else mentioned then forgive me 

So first let me tell you again what a fellow member already told u on page one, get ur hand on one of those first, just touch it without turning it on. 
I will not talk about the tank issue because its been clear to everyone, but I do like to say that it feels like am carrying a small computer in my hand specially when u look at the size of the head and the electronics and the kind of work involved in it. 
also another important thing is customer service. Henry is the kind of guy that i've never met someone like him. I emailed him like 2 weeks ago and told him that I feel like the momentary operation on my rotary is not functioning correctly so he tells me flat and immediately to send him my address and sends me a new battery compartment that arrived yesterday with no single extra charge. you don't expect that from everybody in this business.
I have 1 HDS light and 2 Macs lights and I love them all the same.

Really dude, get one and if u don't like it I will take it  "I want a Hi CRI version if ur gonna do it  "


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## mikedeason (Nov 14, 2011)

*Why Is HDS Systems EDC So Popular?*

ok I just read through the "Must Have..." thread and the HDS EDC is mentioned repeatedly..

Went to their site and to the *UNTRAINED* eye all I see is a relatively low lumen light with no 18650 option for better run time that seems priced high in compairison to lights that to the UNTRAINED eye do much more.

Please note I am not bashing this light as I have never even seen one in person...just wondering why it is so poular?


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## lightophile (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Why Is HDS Systems EDC So Popular?*

Im guessing its the rotary output selection, and the fact that it is fairly compact. I don't own, just speaking out of others reviews.


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## Search (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Why Is HDS Systems EDC So Popular?*

I personally do not have any desire for lithium ion. I will stick to my primaries. That conversation is for a different place, but that feature, or lack there-of, is no concern.

HDS lights are really really good at doing one thing, very very well: Working. Enough said.

They have a programmable UI and a very user friendly operation that allows you to change modes without them being in the way of each other.

As far as the low lumen rating.. I know lights are getting smaller while getting brighter, but brighter is not a necessity. A lot of guys end up settling with an "ole reliable" that doesn't have all the bells and whistles. I fit in that category. I would carry my E1B to oblivion if a girlfriend hadn't lost it. For an EDC in your pocket, 120 lumens is more than enough.

It's American made and every detail was carefully planned. You get what you pay for sometimes.

I plan on buying one of the Rotary ones soon but would not think twice about buying another Tactical model. I just don't like the operation of the EDC personally.


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## mikedeason (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Why Is HDS Systems EDC So Popular?*

American Made is one thing I completely missed...I can see how that would be a biggie


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Why Is HDS Systems EDC So Popular?*

Merging with the current HDS thread.

Bill


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## nbp (Nov 15, 2011)

There's a thread called "why do you guys like hds so much?". Search for that one with the google bar. Should answer your question.


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## AZPops (Nov 15, 2011)

Cause it's made in the Good Ol'U.S. of A., *BUT I Still Don't Get It!* .....

















.... So I ordered a *second one *yesterday! .... :devil:


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## kaichu dento (Nov 15, 2011)

AZPops said:


> Cause it's made in the Good Ol'U.S. of A., *BUT I Still Don't Get It!* .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well in that case, it looks like it won't be long before you finally do get it!


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## OCD (Nov 15, 2011)

*Re: Why Is HDS Systems EDC So Popular?*

Post deleted


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## AZPops (Nov 15, 2011)

kaichu dento said:


> Well in that case, it looks like it won't be long before you finally do get it!




I think Henry's hoping I still don't! ... LOL

But back to the topic, I'm new to HDS Systems, but after purchasing many lights during the past few months. I bit the bullet when I ordered my first T170 from HDS. The reasoning behind this purchase, is I consider this light (as the Rotary I ordered yesterday) as tools. Tools that I use through out the night! And I agree, I sure do hope these lights will be with me as well as serving it's purpose for many years.

In addition to the light it's self, and although I spoke to Henry only a couple of times and exchanged a similar number of email correspondence. I appreciated his straight forward, not rushed, posture when we spoke. From a customer's point of view, to actually correspond with the person behind the product before and after the purchase is not the normal circumstance and or situation when making an inquiry (Because more often then not, when inquiring about a product you'll speak to a CS representative. Which there is nothing wrong with that, it's just the norm). However, I appreciated the time taken, as well as giving me that edge of confidence that I will be taken cared of should the need arise! All of which lead to my second HDS Systems flashlight!

Btw, I thought most would see or take my post regarding the "Made in U.S. of A. But still don't get it! So I purchase a second" as a tounge-n-cheek, having a little fun post!

What does give me pleasure when making a purchase like my T170 is having a tool that performs, feels great in hand, shows great excecution in design as well as asthetics. All of which that gives me that confidence I'm looking for that makes me smile when I use it! This is what makes a great investment IMO, like a tech investing in the tools he uses to make his living!

Lastly, if someone still doesn't understand a product after so many took the time to post reasons why they thought this product was worth purchasing. I don't see any problem with that. No product IMO can please everyone! So in this case anyone who finds themselves in this situation should by all means, find the product that does do it for them. It's as simple as that.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 15, 2011)

AZPops said:


> I think Henry's hoping I still don't! ... LOL
> 
> But back to the topic, I'm new to HDS Systems, but after purchasing many lights during the past few months. I bit the bullet when I ordered my first T170 from HDS. The reasoning behind this purchase, is I consider this light (as the Rotary I ordered yesterday) as tools. Tools that I use through out the night! And I agree, I sure do hope these lights will be with me as well as serving it's purpose for many years.
> 
> ...


Nice post and spot on with a bunch of points. I can only think of Henry sounding like he wanted off the phone one time when I talked to him and it was obvious he was busy!

Hope you get your new light soon so that we can hear about the continuing saga and whether you like it or not!


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## Kestrel (Nov 15, 2011)

Eight posts have been deleted. Please stay on-topic.

BTW, here's a tip: If a mod asks a user to drop it, that doesn't mean further replies in addition to adding *more info* to prior posts!


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## AZPops (Nov 15, 2011)

kaichu dento said:


> Nice post and spot on with a bunch of points. I can only think of Henry sounding like he wanted off the phone one time when I talked to him and it was obvious he was busy!
> 
> *Hope you get your new light soon *so that we can hear about the continuing saga and whether you like it or not!



Thanks kaichu dento! But it looks like my Rotary is approximatley 4 weeks away (oh the HORROR ... LOL)! Although a long shot, I did ask Henry if the Flush Button model is in-stock. If it is, I'll have that one sent instead, then purchase a Raised Button switch at a later date. However if both are on back order, I'll be a good boy and wait patiently!


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## pjandyho (Nov 15, 2011)

AZPops said:


> Thanks kaichu dento! But it looks like my Rotary is approximatley 4 weeks away (oh the HORROR ... LOL)! Although a long shot, I did ask Henry if the Flush Button model is in-stock. If it is, I'll have that one sent instead, then purchase a Raised Button switch at a later date. However if both are on back order, I'll be a good boy and wait patiently!


The switch is part of the rotary control mechanism and is not user replaceable.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 16, 2011)

AZPops said:


> Thanks kaichu dento! But it looks like my Rotary is approximately 4 weeks away (oh the HORROR ... LOL)! Although a long shot, I did ask Henry if the Flush Button model is in-stock. If it is, I'll have that one sent instead, then purchase a Raised Button switch at a later date. However if both are on back order, I'll be a good boy and wait patiently!


I just looked and saw you already have a Clicky and would suggest that you try to ignore the light for now if the flush button isn't yet available, and wait until it is - otherwise you'll probably find more unhappiness and time expended in getting it to be what you wished you'd bought in the first place. Your regular Clicky should get you by in the meantime!


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## AZPops (Nov 16, 2011)

Once again, thanks for the heads up guys! Since emailing Henry about the Flush Button, I think it’s best if I call him this morning to disregard my intention in making this compromise.

Edit: Re. a Stateside Vendor, they are out of stock on all Rotary's!


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## rhpdchief (Nov 16, 2011)

They are the same light with the same warranty whether purchased from a dealer or directly from HDS. Only difference might be firmware version if the dealer has had the light from the beginning but I would imagine that all of the original rotary lights sold out months ago. I bought mine from a dealer recently, probably the same dealer you're lookin at, and I couldn't be happier. From all I've read the tint, beam profile, and led centering can be a bit of a lottery and you may be happier with a dealer light than one directly from HDS or vice versa. Whatever you decide you know HDS will stand behind the light. I never cared which switch or bezel was on my light. I'll trade you battery tubes/switches, bezels, or whatever if you feel better purchasing from Henry.


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## AZPops (Nov 16, 2011)

rhpdchief said:


> They are the same light with the same warranty whether purchased from a dealer or directly from HDS. Only difference might be firmware version if the dealer has had the light from the beginning but I would imagine that all of the original rotary lights sold out months ago. I bought mine from a dealer recently, probably the same dealer you're lookin at, and I couldn't be happier. From all I've read the tint, beam profile, and led centering can be a bit of a lottery and you may be happier with a dealer light than one directly from HDS or vice versa. Whatever you decide you know HDS will stand behind the light. I never cared which switch or bezel was on my light. I'll trade you battery tubes/switches, bezels, or whatever if you feel better purchasing from Henry.



Thanks I appreciate the offer! ... :thumbsup:

I just got off the phone with the vendor and he is out of stock on all Rotary's. He told me that I'll more then likely receive my order, before he receives his re-stocking order!

So it looks like I'm gonna have to go back to being a *"good boy"* and wait for Sant'ie Claus like everyone else! ... LOL

Thanks again!


PS Can't blame a guy for trying! ... :devil: ... Now I'm going back to get some Z's! ... :tired:


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## rhpdchief (Nov 16, 2011)

As to why HDS lights are so popular...I think you have to see one in person and hold one in you hand. They just feel perfect in the hand. There is such a solid feel to the light. 
To me it has nothing to do with where the light is made. Like most people here I have too many lights and most of them are not made in the USA. They are all quality lights and they are all reliable but, as good as they are, they don't have the same feel as an HDS light.
Some edc lights are brighter but there are usually trade offs for that. They are running in direct drive or they are very floody because of the led, or runtime is minimal, etc. HDS lights are designed to give the best performance across the board with respect to the technology that is available today. 
HDS lights are also very versatile in that they can give you as many options, or as few options as you want in a light, although you do have to be willing to program the light at least once. The rotary models really set a new standard for versatility or they can just be a simple variable intensity flashlight if that's what you like. 
There are times that I will carry a different light (smaller and lighter weight) due to clothing choices or other circumstances but, without any of those constraints, I will be carrying my HDS rotary.
HDS lights may never be the brightest lights but I don't believe that is what they're after. If Henry stopped making them today I don't think they'd ever be obsolete as long as there are batteries to power them. 
They may not be for everyone but the above explains why they're popular with me. I'm a believer and obviously a lot of other people are too.


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## rhpdchief (Nov 16, 2011)

Deleted...double post.


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## Sparky's Magic (Nov 16, 2011)

HDS 'lights are popular and deservedly so. It is a Flashlight that you confidently put in your pocket and when you have a lighting task, at any output level, you pull it out and get the job done. This is an oversimplification, however, that's the way it is!

It is an ideal size, feels very good in the hand, has an extremely user friendly UI., a smooth attractive beam, is virtually bomb-proof, is covered by what must be, not just the industries best and most comprehensive lifetime guarantee but the best of any so-called warranties anywhere. HDS's after sales service is legendary!

In the final analysis, even for those of us with more 'lights than we care to admit to, it is the one that goes in the pocket; and, for me, at least hasn't been replaced as a do everything, go everywhere lighting tool: Also, of all my lights, it is the only one that hasn't become, at any stage, boring. It has maintained its' mystique from day 1 and continues to impress!

Good Luck. :thumbsup:


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## chaoss (Nov 16, 2011)

The only RA i own is an older 140GT clicky and it has been a great light.
It managed to survive my big sell off of lights, including Surefires & McGizmos if that tells you anything.


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## ElectronGuru (Nov 16, 2011)

rhpdchief said:


> There is such a solid feel to the light.
> 
> To me it has nothing to do with where the light is made. Like most people here I have too many lights and most of them are not made in the USA. They are all quality lights and they are all reliable but, as good as they are, they don't have the same feel as an HDS light.



This feel is prevalent with US made lights.


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## pjandyho (Nov 17, 2011)

ElectronGuru said:


> This feel is prevalent with US made lights.


That's also why I like buying US made lights.


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## davyro (Nov 17, 2011)

Thats also one of the things i've found out since i bought my rotary,the feel of the light is just perfect
its just one of many reasons why my next light will be another HDS,i'm thinking about a Ra Clicky 200T
next & nothing else,so hopefully in the next couple of weeks i'm the proud owner of my second HDS & 
i feel it won't be my last.


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## nutcracker (Nov 17, 2011)

I second the good feel or fit in the hands.
For that reason I removed my makeshift lanyard. It bugged me, standing in 90° angle away from the light's body.
Now the rotary is free again like it was, when it came.
Just laying vertically in the pants front pocket.

Though I may opt for the HDS holster in the future


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## flatline (Nov 17, 2011)

I bought my HCRI HDS Clicky purely out of curiosity since it was the only light mentioned on CPF that, near as I could tell, had no detractors even considering the relatively high price point.

It is my favorite light now.

It is simply a pleasure to use. And so I use it. A lot.

This thread has over 100 posts saying positive things about the HDS lights, but really, nothing we can say can be as convincing (one way or another...I'm sure the HDS isn't for everyone) as simply holding one in your hand and trying it out.

If you can't borrow one, considering buying one. You can always sell it in the marketplace if you decide you don't want to keep it.

--flatline


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## sawlight (Nov 18, 2011)

You can have my HCRI when you pry it from my cold dead hands!
But with that said, I wish the tail caps were more like the Novatac's, I'm tiring of grabbing it to find the battery dead again! YES, I know I can lock it out, but I never had this problem with my Novatac, and don't think I should with the RA. But this is nit picking, and no, you still can't have it!


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 18, 2011)

sawlight said:


> You can have my HCRI when you pry it from my cold dead hands!
> But with that said, I wish the tail caps were more like the Novatac's, I'm tiring of grabbing it to find the battery dead again! YES, I know I can lock it out, but I never had this problem with my Novatac, and don't think I should with the RA. But this is nit picking, and no, you still can't have it!



Contact Henry via phone, or email and tell him about your problem. My HiCri Ra was draining my CR123's too quickly I thought, so I contacted him. My test prior to contacting him was to take a fresh cell, reading 3.25 volts, and install it per normal procedure, and not turn it on, but leave it for a week without use. I then took out the cell and compared it to another un-used CR123 that read 3.25 volts. I found the CR123 in the Ra had dropped severely in voltage, below 3 volts, this without being used at all. I then contacted Henry. I sent it in and it was returned, and no further drain problems have occurred. Got to use a DMM, or other voltage meter.

Bill


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## mikedeason (Nov 18, 2011)

I guess I got spoiled early by getting the PD31 as my first purchase.

I would require at least 300 lumens and an 18650 for EDC.

I dont use the 300 lumens often but its nice to know i have it wherever i go.


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## nutcracker (Nov 18, 2011)

Thrust me, the 200+ Lumen measured 233 are ample. At least for me (I also own/owned lights with 500-800 Lumen)


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## OCD (Nov 18, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> I guess I got spoiled early by getting the PD31 as my first purchase.
> 
> I would require at least 300 lumens and an 18650 for EDC.
> 
> I dont use the 300 lumens often but its nice to know i have it wherever i go.



What is the relevance of a Fenix light running on an 18650 to the OP of HDS lights being popular? :thinking:

Just for the record, I have a big +1 for everything said regarding the feel, look, UI, output, etc. of these great lights.


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## Search (Nov 18, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> I guess I got spoiled early by getting the PD31 as my first purchase.
> 
> I would require at least 300 lumens and an 18650 for EDC.
> 
> I dont use the 300 lumens often but its nice to know i have it wherever i go.



Lets not forget that HDS measures OTF lumens and not emitter lumens either. There is a very big difference.


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## notsofast (Nov 18, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> I guess I got spoiled early by getting the PD31 as my first purchase.
> 
> I would require at least 300 lumens and an 18650 for EDC.
> 
> I dont use the 300 lumens often but its nice to know i have it wherever i go.



I think you got confused early by getting the PD31. ;>) 

It isn't even close to the quality and function of a HDS. Turn both on high and you would be hard pressed to tell which one is the brightest.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 18, 2011)

mikedeason said:


> I guess I got spoiled early by getting the PD31 as my first purchase.
> 
> I would require at least 300 lumens and an 18650 for EDC.


You didn't get spoiled so much as self-deceived, not to mention that your post is irrelevant to this thread. You could have made it relevant by weighing in with informed decisions on your part derived from comparisons you made between two lights, but your post serves no purpose here as it stands other than to act as a bump in the road.

Try your present light alongside an HDS and we'll look forward to your findings. Although you may or may not find one to be a good match for you, remember that it's always hardest to know much about things one knows nothing at all about. If I'm wrong that you have no experience with HDS lights then some addition of content to show that would be helpful.


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## tyrantrave (Nov 18, 2011)

I too had no idea why they were popular until I used one. The fit, finish, quality, output, and UI is just right. I was skeptical at first since there are lights that put out 5x more lumens, but the HDS just works.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 18, 2011)

Enough said about miledeason's post. Yes, it was irrelevant to this thread, and a moderator will deal with him if he posts anymore OT posts. Bring OT posts or possible Rule violations to a mods attention.

Bill


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## sawlight (Nov 18, 2011)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Contact Henry via phone, or email and tell him about your problem. My HiCri Ra was draining my CR123's too quickly I thought, so I contacted him. My test prior to contacting him was to take a fresh cell, reading 3.25 volts, and install it per normal procedure, and not turn it on, but leave it for a week without use. I then took out the cell and compared it to another un-used CR123 that read 3.25 volts. I found the CR123 in the Ra had dropped severely in voltage, below 3 volts, this without being used at all. I then contacted Henry. I sent it in and it was returned, and no further drain problems have occurred. Got to use a DMM, or other voltage meter.
> 
> Bill



It's not an electrical issue, it's just the tail cap switch gets turned on in my pocket, I've tried two tail caps on it now, but neither are as recessed as the Novatacs were. That and they don't tailstand as well either.
I use RCR's so it's not a huge issue, but it's the only complaint I have. The new signal wire is leaps and bounds ahead of the Novatac!


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## nutcracker (Nov 18, 2011)

Can't you program the lock feature?
And then press triple click to lock it in off mode?


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## burntoshine (Nov 18, 2011)

i've been eyeing hds lights for a while. i love liteflux and i have a feeling i would love a clicky. it would have to be neutral or high cri, though. it appears that the high cri is out of stock on the website (not that i can afford one right now anyway).


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## sawlight (Nov 18, 2011)

Yes I can, but I don't want to, I like grabbing the light and it works, not having to go through the steps to unlock it.


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## TyJo (Nov 19, 2011)

sawlight said:


> Yes I can, but I don't want to, I like grabbing the light and it works, not having to go through the steps to unlock it.


I know the feeling. That's why I love my HDS. Not only do I choose if the light is lockable as an option, but I choose if I want to lock it or not when it is off. First I enabled button lock. This is not as cumbersome as "button lock" sounds. It stills functions the same as any other HDS but... If you want to lock the button; triple click the light when it is off. The button will be locked. The light does not lock automatically every time you turn if off. If you try to turn the light on when it is locked; it will blink 3 times. A simple triple click unlocks it and it stays that way.

I understand you probably realize this, but other readers may not and I wanted to point it out, because I didn't understand it at first myself. As far as accidental activation in your pocket, I see no other solution around this, if you are looking for an multimode (electronic switch UI).


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## nutcracker (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, the main point is. If you program the button lock feature, you don't have to use it but you can.
If you just turn off the light, you turn it on as always (one click).
If you want to use the lock simply turn off the light and triple click. It is locked now. If you want to turn it on simple triple click (to unlock and turn on at once) and the light comes on.


I know you said this already TyJo, but I wanted to give another wording. It may become more clear with two different wordings.


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## TyJo (Nov 19, 2011)

nutcracker said:


> It may become more clear with two different wordings.


Agreed, yours sounds better, nice explanation.


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## The Sun (Nov 19, 2011)

Why I love Ra/HDS/Henry:

Over the years I've had a lot of lights...looking for "the one." At one point in time or another I probably have had at least one model from just about every production light manufacturer you could think of; Jetbeam, NovaTac, NiteCore, Fenix, Surefire, Olight, Wolfeyes, EagleTac, Quark, DX, Jil,...and on, and on. I have also had a lot of non-production/semi-production/small company lights as well; Muyshondt, McG, Malkoff, ArcMania, Original HDS, Mac's, etc., etc. When the Ra Twisty came out it was close approaching "the one" status. It was overbuilt in every way, very waterproof, had a customizable UI, easy UI, ample output, and great runtime. I carried it quite a bit, but I was still looking for the perfect EDC match for me. 

When word got out that the Ra Clicky would be coming out a few years ago I was on it immediately. It finally came out and I got the Clicky 140 version. It was everything that the Twisty was but better in every way...UI, output, runtime, etc. It was in my pocket everyday. Then, the Clicky 170 came out not long after and I traded into one. Because of that light I sold every other light that I owned (except for the two Ra Twisty's I had as backups). All the customs, productions....whatever they were, they were sold, because at that point they were useless to me. Don't get me wrong there are great lights out there...McG's are great, other customs, as well as productions are great, but they aren't "the one" for me. 

That Clicky 170 ruined me for other lights, I haven't bought another light for myself since. That Clicky 170 has been in my pocket since I got it when the Ra Clicky's first came out (roughly two years I believe), and has been through everything you can imagine; the pool, the ocean, hurricane Ike in Beaumont, TX with no power for seven days, tropical storms, under the hood, snow, you name it, it has probably been there. 

Two weeks ago I sent that same Clicky 170 to Henry because of an issue it was having after two, or so, years of real life duty. I called Henry up, explained the problem, talked to him about lights and other stuff for another 30-40min, and then sent the light a couple of days later. A week went by and my light was waiting for me at the PO Box as good as new with a brand new battery tube and tail-cap. Henry's lights are excellent, but his customer service is what other small business owners wish they could be, or strive to accomplish. 

In 2008 I started looking for "the one" light much like everybody else starts; wanting throw, blazing, retina burning, paint peeling output, and multiple levels of it. That faded as it does for just about everyone that wants a light that they can actually use. My taste changed to a more utilitarian approach for the search. The original NovaTac's worked out well for a while, but they were lacking something. When Henry made the Clicky, the search was over.

Plain and simple, Ra/HDS lights are excellent products, backed by an excellent human being, with excellent customer service and knowledge in all things flashlight. My Ra Clicky 170 has never left me in a situation where I needed light and didn't have it. It's been dropped (many times), run over, banged around, but used as intended and I've never thought that it would not light up...and that's the thing...confidence in a product. I push the button, and it comes on after everything it's been through.


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## ironhorse (Dec 2, 2011)

I have also wondered what was so special about them. I was completly happy with my Nitecore and Zebralight. 

I got a McGizmo, didn't care for it and sold it. I got a Peak Logan brass, didn't care for it and got rid of it. 

I got the HDS 120 a year ago. I figured if I didn't care for it, I would leave it on the night stand for the low level. It took awhile to really get to liking it as I prefer the piston drive more than the switch. I didn't care for the bezel down clip. If I can't clip it to a hat, the clip comes off. After getting a bezel up clip from Wvaltakis, it slowly but surely became my favorite light. While it is not the brightest light, I have never said that this isn't bright enough. The low is perfect for middle of the night use. Programming may seem complicated, but is surprisingly easy to pick up. I don't have to worry about it over discharging rechargeables. From any level, there is instant access to high. This thig is so overbuilt that it's almost overkill. 

For me it was the more I used it, the more I appreciated it. 

Here is a link to detailed specifics. 
http://ralights.com/?id=EdcDetails


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## EPVQ30 (Jan 15, 2012)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*

i want an orange one. is that so much to ask?


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## kaichu dento (Jan 15, 2012)

*Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?*



EPVQ30 said:


> i want an orange one. is that so much to ask?


There are some out there, but the cerakote finish is not very durable and all of the orange on the corners is long gone.

Looks great but not nearly as tough as the standard anodized coating.


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## stoli67 (Jan 17, 2012)

I have an orange cerakoted one but I put a titanium bezel and tailcap on it... The cerakote on the head and battery tube never wears... Problem solved.


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## kaichu dento (Jan 18, 2012)

stoli67 said:


> I have an orange cerakoted one but I put a titanium bezel and tailcap on it... The cerakote on the head and battery tube never wears... Problem solved.


Where did you get the Ti tailcap? 

My cerakote is worn on every part of the light, even though it was taken right down to bare aluminum and I'd say it's a distant second to the anodized stock coating. I still like the light, but part of the reason I bought it was the mistaken assumption that it was going to be pretty tough and think that anyone considering buying one be aware that it is not nearly as tough as the PR going around would suggest.


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## stoli67 (Jan 18, 2012)

I bought it from Henry but I think it was the last one....

You might be able to get a bare aluminum one for the ail .... You can still get ti bezels without the square threads.


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## hubbytuby (Feb 15, 2012)

*HDS OBESSION?*

WAT IS IT WITH THE HDS THAT PEOPLE LOVE SO MUCH, LIKE EVERYONE LOVES THEM?

Thread Merge - Norm


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## leon2245 (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: HDS OBESSION?*

1. Bomb proof
2. Bullet proof
3. Can withstand an EMP 
4. Now has an airhole in the tailcap


Get back to me when you find another light that you can say the same about.


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## treek13 (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: HDS OBESSION?*

Why are HDS (RA) lights so popular? is a very long thread you might want to check out.


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## smokelaw1 (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: HDS OBESSION?*

They work when you need them to work. 

Rinse, repeat.


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## eh4 (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: HDS OBESSION?*

Read everything on HDS website a couple times.


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## someguy4747 (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: HDS OBESSION?*



eh4 said:


> Read everything on HDS website a couple times.



I thought I did. Then when I got my light there were new things I learned that made me like it even more!


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## CarpentryHero (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: HDS OBESSION?*

Programable, bombproof and reliable, low low modes for night time, I like that a lot.

I own Surefire's cause there bombproof and reliable too


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## MrBenchmark (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: HDS OBESSION?*

For their indended purpose, they are effectively perfect lights. For how many other products (of any type) can you really use the word "perfect"? Unless you have VERY specific uses for a flashlight, buy one of these and it is liable to be the most heavily used light you own. It is easy to carry with you, and it packs in so much functionality that I find very little need to reach for any other light. I am an extremely picky person, and I do not say these things lightly. 

Seriously, everything about these lights is just flawlessly executed and superbly designed.

BTW, since no one else has mentioned it, I find these to be one of the most efficient flashlights that I own - I don't go through a lot of primaries with my HDS. Oh yeah, and you can use rechargeable batteries too...


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## Rossymeister (Feb 15, 2012)

*Re: HDS OBESSION?*

I think the ability to program the light is the biggest selling point by far. Durability is definitely a factor when buying these lights. I have dropped them several times, dipped one in a bath of sodium hydroxide, and given them general abuse that other brands couldnt keep up with.

Efficiency is pretty good with these lights too. 1 Hour, 1 Battery, 200 Lumens.

Simply the best! IMO


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## Johnbeck180 (Feb 15, 2012)

Hubbytuby, get an HDS light. Even with the 120 version. You will not be disappointed. The look, feel, and functionality of these lights are superb. Each Hds light is calibrated to have to lumens it claims, so with the 120 you get 120 lumens. I have lights that claim to have 150+ lumens but my 120 is brighter hands down. My hds 170 is my favorite. But like I said Before, get one, even if you can find one used I'm sure you will like it. And when you get a sense of how the programing works it makes these lights even better.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 15, 2012)

hubbytuby said:


> WAT IS IT WITH THE HDS THAT PEOPLE LOVE SO MUCH, LIKE EVERYONE LOVES THEM?



There have been many lights out there (both expensive and cheap) that I didn't see what the big deal was about, even after reading hundreds of postings about them, until I actually bought and used one.

Buy one, try it out and you will see.
If it ends up not being you cup of tea, put it up on the MP and you can sell it w/o losing much if any money at all.


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## stoli67 (Feb 17, 2012)

My high CRI Clicky with upgrades....


And it with its friends







One of the Ti Clickies and the orange clicky has both been upgraded to Neutral to slightly warm XMLs!


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## davyro (Feb 17, 2012)

I've purposely avoided Hi-Cri lights as they just didn't appeal to me but Henry has raised the bar with his rotary version.So when
Henry gets on top of his backlog i think i'm going to take the plunge.My next purchase is going to be another HDS even if i don't
manage to get an Hi-Cri.They're just built so well.


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## flatline (Feb 17, 2012)

davyro said:


> I've purposely avoided Hi-Cri lights as they just didn't appeal to me but Henry has raised the bar with his rotary version.So when
> Henry gets on top of his backlog i think i'm going to take the plunge.My next purchase is going to be another HDS even if i don't
> manage to get an Hi-Cri.They're just built so well.



My first high-CRI light was an HDS. Now I only buy high-CRI.

--flatline


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## Matt7337 (Mar 27, 2012)

stoli67 said:


> My high CRI Clicky with upgrades....
> 
> And it with its friends
> 
> ...



WOW, where or how did you get those trit slots milled in the bezel and body?! I MUST have that done to my next HDS light! That is the nicest collection of HDS lights I've seen in a while


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## tobrien (Mar 27, 2012)

so speaking of which, what kind of mods do people usually do except for emitter swaps on HDS lights? I see trit installation is one


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## diesel79 (Mar 27, 2012)

I was wondering why these lights are so popular as well. Then I was lucky enough to snatch one up in the marketplace, now I cant put it down. I always have it on me. It just feels great in the hand with a perfect shape and nice solid feel. I thought the UI seemed confusing when I read about it, but once I got the light it is quite simple and the way it comes programmed was perfect for my uses.


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