# Stock Up On Ican's - For your home



## LumensMaximus (Sep 23, 2010)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39335073#39335073


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## Black Rose (Sep 23, 2010)

They had a good run. I still have a box of them that I kept when I replaced everything with CFLs.

This should probably be in Fixed Lighting forum.


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## wyager (Sep 23, 2010)

That video seemed.... biased.... (to say the least). Of course, they had to make a huge story out of a few hundred people losing their current jobs... They need to learn economics, for all the jobs lost in the incan business the same number will pop up in a CFL, LED, or halogen factory. The story SHOULD have been about the laws, as those might actually affect me in some way, I really don't care that some guy making a ridiculous amount of money to perform a menial task has to find another job.
/rant

That said, I'm kind of hopeful this will push high CRI LEDs forward...


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## ampdude (Sep 24, 2010)

I've been stocking up for awhile now, but I need to get much more.

This is sad and sickening that the government can get away with this.

I won't have CFL's in my house. Buy all the incans you can to prevent our landfills from filling up with mercury from CFL's.

And yea MSNBC is basically like bringing totalitarian communism into your living room.


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## SureAddicted (Sep 24, 2010)

G.E is not the only manufacturer to produce Incandescent bulbs.
Most bulbs I buy are from either Osram or Philips so I'm not worried at all.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 24, 2010)

I have enough incand bulbs to last 50 years in all my fixtures in various wattages.


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## mrartillery (Sep 24, 2010)

wyager said:


> I really don't care that some guy making a ridiculous amount of money to perform a menial task has to find another job.
> /rant



My thoughts exactly. Sad day for Incans though.


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## alpg88 (Sep 24, 2010)

wyager said:


> They need to learn economics, for all the jobs lost in the incan business the same number will pop up in a CFL, LED, or halogen factory. .


 not in us they wont.


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## wyager (Sep 24, 2010)

mrartillery said:


> My thoughts exactly. Sad day for Incans though.



Yes it is.... But doesn't anyone else think this will help LEDs a bit? I have a warm white LED desk lamp in my bedroom-it's indistinguishable from the incan on the ceiling. I imagine if they got high CRI into these bulbs it would look even better.




alpg88 said:


> not in us they wont.



It doesn't matter. Putting aside the advancement of robotics, an equal number of jobs will open up elsewhere to fill the supply gap left by the closing of the factory. Maybe if all they know how to do is operate lightbulb making machinery they're in trouble, but that's what they get for not getting an education. I'm not trying to be mean, but I find it hard to feel sorry for them when they make $30/hr for work that any 4th grader could do. Look at lightbulb. Push button. Look at lightbulb. Push button.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 24, 2010)

Question though - with incans there is built in demand for when they burn out. 

What about with LEDs and CFLs? Will they just last forever?


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## spencer (Sep 24, 2010)

In my experience CFL's burn out faster than incans. CFL's are supposed to have a longer lifespan then incans but that is rated for constant on time. Turning the light on and off greatly reduces the lifespan of the CFL. If it were left on for the entire time then it would last longer but that is really not practical.


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## Techjunkie (Sep 24, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> I have enough incand bulbs to last 50 years in all my fixtures in various wattages.


 
I'd bet you have twice as many bulbs stocked up to go in all your hotwires too.


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## Ray_of_Light (Sep 24, 2010)

Please note that high-efficiency incandescent (halogen) bulbs have not been banned! 

Regarding CFls... they go bad because of the electrolytic filter cap before the inverter - overheats and fails after few hundreds hours (or less). If you use fluorescents bulbs with inductive ballasts in the fixture (possibly with a good re-phasing oil capacitor), they are going to last forever.

Anthony


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 25, 2010)

Techjunkie said:


> I'd bet you have twice as many bulbs stocked up to go in all your hotwires too.



You have no idea. :laughing: I'm positive that I have more bulbs than Litho123 ever had in his hayday.


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## mdocod (Sep 25, 2010)

wyager said:


> I really don't care that some guy making a ridiculous amount of money to perform a menial task has to find another job.
> /rant



Class warfare is the #1 requirement for tyranny to prevail in a free society. 

Eric


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## wyager (Sep 25, 2010)

mdocod said:


> Class warfare is the #1 requirement for tyranny to prevail in a free society.
> 
> Eric



What are you saying? That economic classes are a good thing or a bad thing?


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## Chrontius (Sep 25, 2010)

Economic classes are, like alcohol, acceptable and even good in moderation. However, there is a historical trend that once wealth (not income!) stratification becomes too strained, political violence happens. This is bad. If you want to know how bad, consider the French revolution, or the rise of communism in Russia.

Eric, I thought apathy with a side-order of ignorance was the #1 necessity for that.


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## wyager (Sep 25, 2010)

Chrontius said:


> However, there is a historical trend that once wealth (not income!) stratification becomes too strained, political violence happens.



This is correct. 
Variation in income according to skill has been proven time and time again to be necessary for the proper operation of an economy, but it's equally important that the money the more skilled make gets spent and not hoarded. Plus, keep in mind that france during the french revolution was mercantilist- a system of economy that we now know to be fundamentally flawed that said that there was a fixed amount of wealth in the world. The more you hoarded, the better off you were. Again, it's because they didn't spend the money they made. (The also set up ridiculous tariffs- those have also been proven to be bad in a strictly economic sense).


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## mdocod (Sep 26, 2010)

wyager said:


> What are you saying? That economic classes are a good thing or a bad thing?



The only road to _equal results [for the many]_ is tyranny. 

We can live as free beings with life being unfair, or we can live under tyrannical rule, still, life will not be fair, because someone is the tyrant.

Eric


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## mdocod (Sep 26, 2010)

Chrontius said:


> Eric, I thought apathy with a side-order of ignorance was the #1 necessity for that.



Equally good, pick your poison. 

Eric


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 26, 2010)

I have taken most of my incans out of service, haven't bought any in close to 10 years now, CFLs work fine, cost less to operate and make less heat and don't need to be replaced as often.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 26, 2010)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I have taken most of my incans out of service, haven't bought any in close to 10 years now, CFLs work fine, cost less to operate and make less heat and don't need to be replaced as often.



And then some of us resist the indoctrination.


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## wyager (Sep 26, 2010)

mdocod said:


> The only road to _equal results [for the many]_ is tyranny.
> 
> We can live as free beings with life being unfair, or we can live under tyrannical rule, still, life will not be fair, because someone is the tyrant.
> 
> Eric



Got it 


Also, does anyone know if there are any health benefits for certain kinds of bulbs? It seems to me like incans won't make nearly enough UV, same goes for LEDs.


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## [email protected] (Sep 26, 2010)

Funny how this topic came up again 

Hoarding mains rated incandescents is humorous when you consider halogen incandescent bulbs (30% more efficient) have become well established in the market already 




LuxLuthor said:


> And then some of us resist the indoctrination.



What's wrong with wanting to improve your home's electrical efficiency Lux (and thus reduce utility rates/fees)? :thinking:


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Funny how this topic came up again
> 
> Hoarding mains rated incandescents is humorous when you consider halogen incandescent bulbs (30% more efficient) have become well established in the market already
> 
> ...



Nothing at all wrong as long as you are not being FORCED by some nitwits in Govt. who barely can tell their you-know-what from a hole in the ground -- to do/use what their liberal constituents decide everyone should do, while driving around in their own fleet of SUV, and private jets....and if the proposed replacements looked and performed the way you want artificial lighting to perform. 

If someone likes the look of CFL lighting, despite their surprisingly short lifetimes since they were not rated for normal use being typically turned on/off, and as long as they don't break while unscrewing, or drop and explode the toxic materials all over, then they are free to buy them. To force the outlaw of manufacturing of incans in the USA when there is still a demand for them is insane, and will make people buy them from other countries who still have jobs making them. It's more fallout from the fictitious man caused global warming wealth redistribution scheme.

Aren't you glad you asked?


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## Mjolnir (Sep 26, 2010)

Did anyone else notice that they showed a clip of an escalade with HID headlights when the narrator said "more efficient halogen bulbs?" It seems like they don't even know the difference between the two.


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## ampdude (Sep 26, 2010)

Mjolnir said:


> Did anyone else notice that they showed a clip of an escalade with HID headlights when the narrator said "more efficient halogen bulbs?" It seems like they don't even know the difference between the two.



Yea, I saw that and rolled my eyes. I honestly don't think most people know the difference. And of course it's not uncommon for news reporters and staff to have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. :shakehead


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## fyrstormer (Sep 26, 2010)

ampdude said:


> I've been stocking up for awhile now, but I need to get much more.
> 
> This is sad and sickening that the government can get away with this.
> 
> ...


The mercury contained in a CFL is much less than the mercury released into the air by burning the extra coal necessary to power an incandescent lightbulb. At least a few of them won't end up in the landfills anyway, because there are CFL recycling boxes at every hardware store in my area, and plenty of other areas as well I imagine. So your "less pollution by using incans" logic is bunk. Also, totalitarianism and communism are diametric opposites.

As for whether it's sad and sickening that the government can get away with passing regulations, I suggest you leave politics out of the discussion before I or someone else take the bait.


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## Linger (Sep 26, 2010)

xxx said:


> msnbc is basically like bringing totalitarian communism into your living room.


Anyone else get a laugh?
Its such a strong characterization...gives the impression some-one at fox news (faux news) made up that talking point, 'msnbc is totalitarian communism,' and is gonna run a goggle search in a week to see how many times it was repeated.

Best,
L


Communism (aiming towards common ownership, open access to services, shared standards of living)
-is on the opposite side of the political spectrum from-
Totalitarianism (an absolute rule, by individual or group, who control all and make all decisions)


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## [email protected] (Sep 26, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> and if the proposed replacements looked and performed the way you want artificial lighting to perform.



I'll honestly have to take your word on that as I've not tried the high efficiency halogen mains bulbs (though I do intend to shortly), but having said that I had imagined they would behave in a similar manner to the 12v variety... 



LuxLuthor said:


> If someone likes the look of CFL lighting, despite their surprisingly short lifetimes since they were not rated for normal use being typically turned on/off, and as long as they don't break while unscrewing, or drop and explode the toxic materials all over, then they are free to buy them. To force the outlaw of manufacturing of incans in the USA when there is still a demand for them is insane, and will make people buy them from other countries who still have jobs making them. It's more fallout from the fictitious man caused global warming wealth redistribution scheme.



In my personal experience I've found the length of service (with CFL's) is directly related to the quality of manufacture and generally have found the units lasting well (Philips CFL bulbs), our porch light for example was replaced after 6 years... I was lucky to get 12 months+ out of the (now outlawed) incandescent bulbs, FWIW our home is completely CFL converted and out of all those I find I might be having to replace a bulb (CFL) at a rate of 1 per 6 months which is significantly less than the previous incandescent replacement schedule :thumbsup:


Higher efficiency is a good goal... in previous years the population's electricity needs have begun to "out strip" the State's energy suppliers ability to provide making "brown outs" more common place during summer here, living on the fringe of an electricity grid means we experience complete power outages 2~4 times per year and by people making our energy work smarter (CFL's) and not harder (inefficient incandescents) there is simply more "juice on tap" to share around... and that's a good thing!


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I'll honestly have to take your word on that as I've not tried the high efficiency halogen mains bulbs (though I do intend to shortly), but having said that I had imagined they would behave in a similar manner to the 12v variety...
> 
> In my personal experience I've found the length of service (with CFL's) is directly related to the quality of manufacture and generally have found the units lasting well (Philips CFL bulbs), our porch light for example was replaced after 6 years... I was lucky to get 12 months+ out of the (now outlawed) incandescent bulbs, FWIW our home is completely CFL converted and out of all those I find I might be having to replace a bulb (CFL) at a rate of 1 per 6 months which is significantly less than the previous incandescent replacement schedule :thumbsup:
> 
> Higher efficiency is a good goal... in previous years the population's electricity needs have begun to "out strip" the State's energy suppliers ability to provide making "brown outs" more common place during summer here, living on the fringe of an electricity grid means we experience complete power outages 2~4 times per year and by people making our energy work smarter (CFL's) and not harder (inefficient incandescents) there is simply more "juice on tap" to share around... and that's a good thing!



Those all sound like personal choices which you liked making, and which I salute you for doing what you wanted. My thing is all about choice, and letting the market/demand/preferences decide. 

We have never had a brownout where I live. Hurricane/storm related outages, yes. Maybe if such a shortage was real here, I would make other choices....maybe. It is like the US Govt. prohibiting the good old 8-10 gallon per flush toilets in areas that don't have water shortages. 

When I use incans in my home, I usually buy ones rated for 2500, 5000, or 10,000, or even 20,000 hours, so I have a hard time remembering the last time I changed them. I don't remember the brand of CFL, but whatever was selling at Home Depot a couple years ago. How much more expensive are those CFL's than my 20,000 hour incan bulbs?

Noone at our house liked how the CFL's looked, and I was not taking used CFL bulbs that might break in route back to a hardware store--even if I had seen a recycle box--which I have not. So, into the trash they went.

High efficiency is a worthwhile goal, but not at the expense of providing quality, soothing, light.


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## lctorana (Sep 27, 2010)

I converted about half the house to CFL, and am fed up with them. As they fail, I'm changing them to the "30%" halogen bulbs, which IMHO put out a far better light than CFL or even the original incandescents. Yes, they're *that *good. I'm totally sold on them. It's only a pity they are only available in wattages between 28 and 70; I would use lower and higher wattages than that if available.

Edit: Having read Starhalo's post, I feel it important to point out that it is the _*inside-frosted*_ halogen A19 bulbs I am so keen on. They look like the classic "pearl" bulbs for exposed fittings, at least until you turn them on. Then the quality of light you get is simply outstanding. I used to think of these bulbs as merely a compromise; a way of avoiding the incan ban, but I now think of them as a great step forward.


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## hoongern (Sep 27, 2010)

I have no issue here with people using incans/CFLs/LED lighting, but it seems that many of you have had issues with CFLs.. I'm not sure why - but the technology is mature and stable.

If you go to a country like Malaysia or Singapore, CFLs have been in use for many decades (I've never seen any incans) - and failure rates aren't high. Depending on usage, a CFL tube has to be changed maybe every 2-3yrs, and electical consumption is much lower. Millions of people use CFLs.

So, if your decision to use incans and to stock up on them is a personal one, that's fine  But I just wanted to note that the CFL technology isn't that bad, it's pretty reliable..


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## wyager (Sep 27, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> We have never had a brownout where I live. Hurricane/storm related outages, yes. Maybe if such a shortage was real here, I would make other choices....maybe. It is like the US Govt. prohibiting the good old 8-10 gallon per flush toilets in areas that don't have water shortages.



You are aware that every joule you use is a joule not available somewhere else, right? You are contributing to brown outs and water shortages elsewhere by being wasteful... Those extra 8 or so gallons are 8 or so gallons that a farmer can't use to make food.


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## rwolff (Sep 27, 2010)

The legislators who implemented the ban failed to consider one important thing: there are a number of applications where incandescents are perfect for the job because they're a readily-available low wattage *heater*. Want to keep your kitchen pipes from freezing? Put a lamp in the cabinet underneath. Farmers put an incandescent lamp in the chick brooder in cold weather, and how much do you adjust cooking times in your kids' EZ-Bake oven when you switch from incandescent to CFL?


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## wyager (Sep 27, 2010)

rwolff said:


> The legislators who implemented the ban failed to consider one important thing: there are a number of applications where incandescents are perfect for the job because they're a readily-available low wattage *heater*. Want to keep your kitchen pipes from freezing? Put a lamp in the cabinet underneath. Farmers put an incandescent lamp in the chick brooder in cold weather, and how much do you adjust cooking times in your kids' EZ-Bake oven when you switch from incandescent to CFL?



Heat lamps will still be available. As someone mentioned, this law does not effect "specialty" incans, and I'm sure as long as farmers need decent amounts of heat AND light there will still be "chicken coop" incans.


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## leeholaaho (Sep 27, 2010)

mdocod said:


> Class warfare is the #1 requirement for tyranny to prevail in a free society.
> 
> Eric



The fact that some are more concerned about a light bulb then a fellow man says it all.


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## Imon (Sep 27, 2010)

This is kind of a bummer. Perhaps this signifies the beginning of the end of incandescent bulbs in the home. They only talked about one company in the video but considering the figures they were giving it looks like incandescent bulb sales are pretty bad all-around. 

Before I stock up on any bulbs though I think I'll wait a bit. I don't think they'll be going away any time soon...


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 27, 2010)

wyager said:


> You are aware that every joule you use is a joule not available somewhere else, right? You are contributing to brown outs and water shortages elsewhere by being wasteful... Those extra 8 or so gallons are 8 or so gallons that a farmer can't use to make food.



That is the erroneous thinking that led to justifying the aforementioned restrictions. 

My regional water supply is determined solely by the supply and rainfall in specific local reservoirs that have never been transferred nor related to other locations. There has never been a restriction or shortage of water in this area, and they don't transport water from Connecticut to Colorado. If I chose to live in Colorado, I would willingly restrict my water use.

While the electrical grid is more networked, again to my knowledge, there has never been a brownout or even rolling brownouts anywhere near me that would affect my personal use of electricity. Millstone Nuclear Reactor is about 12 miles away, which I happily support the existence of. Perhaps my electrical supply is redundantly abundant.


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## Chrontius (Sep 29, 2010)

I just checked my house, and we have only 3 1/3 incan installations left. One is the bathroom, where CRI is important. One is a 150-watt desk lamp for when I need some grunt when I'm doing fiddly work (this one replaced a halogen desk lamp that was great, but I wore it out finally!). The third is a Reveal bulb in my nightstand lamp that never gets turned on anyway, and the 1/3 is a salted CFL fixture with two CFLs and one incan to even up the color temperature; most of the time this fixture is run with only one CFL lit, anyway.

Everything else is either CFL or halogen.




lctorana said:


> I converted about half the house to CFL, and am fed up with them. As they fail, I'm changing them to the "30%" halogen bulbs, which IMHO put out a far better light than CFL or even the original incandescents. Yes, they're *that *good. I'm totally sold on them. It's only a pity they are only available in wattages between 28 and 70; I would use lower and higher wattages than that if available.



Who made these, and where can I get some?




hoongern said:


> I have no issue here with people using incans/CFLs/LED lighting, but it seems that many of you have had issues with CFLs.. I'm not sure why - but the technology is mature and stable.



We were early adopters here, and the old CFLs simply _sucked._ Burned out fast and got recycled quickly, at least. :nana: The new ones are brighter per watt, last forever, and put out a fairly nice neutral-white with acceptable CRI.


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## hurricane (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm surprised they lasted this long! Incandescent light bulbs are 99.2% inefficient i.e. they create more heat than light. It's ridiculously old technology. I once heard a stat in Canada [from Bruce Mau's Massive Change]: if each Canadian [~35M people] replaced just one of their incans with a CFL, Canada could shut-down 18 of the 21 coal-burning power plants - whoa!

I think CFLs suck, but I'm really excited about LED bulbs.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 1, 2010)

hurricane said:


> I'm surprised they lasted this long! Incandescent light bulbs are 99.2% inefficient i.e. they create more heat than light. It's ridiculously old technology. I once heard a stat in Canada [from Bruce Mau's Massive Change]: if each Canadian [~35M people] replaced just one of their incans with a CFL, Canada could shut-down 18 of the 21 coal-burning power plants - whoa!
> 
> I think CFLs suck, but I'm really excited about LED bulbs.



My preference are to make something like a CFL or LED (for homes) not suck so that people wanted to switch over before passing laws outlawing incans. I know it's hard for some people to get what us Incan-Jockeys say repeatedly: "It's not all about efficiency."

Before you spout something like Incan bulbs being 99.2% inefficient, you should take the time to check facts yourself, rather than what some nitwit spouted somewhere. Then while you are doing your due diligence, maybe also check out these new Philips "Halogena Energy Saver" incandescents...or Osram's IRC bulbs.

The first thing you should do in hearing such a preposterous claim about CFL replacements closing 18 of 21 coal power plants is research the credibility of the person making such a claim, although this is Canada we are talking aboot, which exists in an alternate reality.  Bruce Mau is a dropout of Ontario's College of Art and Design in Toronto who runs a design studio. Yeah, that's about on the same level of science and engineering expertise as a former U.S. Vice President had before making a movie about Global Warming filled with glaring exaggerations and wild inaccuracies.

Again, I'm not arguing about only efficiency of types of lighting. You want individuals to be FORCED to change, then first I would like to see a total ban on all forms of recreational and decorative lighting which is truly frivolous. First ban and get rid of all the outdoor sports stadium lights, concert & art spotlights, get rid of all the outdoor advertising lights on stores, billboards, casinos, highways, hotels and other businesses.


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## wyager (Oct 1, 2010)

Um, LuxLuthor... That PDF you gave was totally useless, LOL. It was just an advertisement. According to the blackbody equations, 99.2% visible light is probably around the max efficiency your basic electric incan can hit (perhaps the numbers are a bit different, but the 99.2% figure sounds about right). so, a 100W bulb gives about .8 watts of visible light. Let's do some comparisons, all scaled to 100W

Red/IR c-mount laser diode-~50W
InN/InGaN diode-20-30W (maybe even above 60 watts in freak cases)
Modern high power LED (at emitter)-10-15W
Incan bulb-.8W


So... I think we have pretty clear loser. Sure, there are a few more efficient kinds of incan bulbs, but they're still not efficient. So before you tell him to "check the facts", try and make sure you're not reading an ad. Of course, if you want more heat than light than an incan is right for you :nana:

I don't know any numbers for CFL, so I can't comment there, but I really doubt that switching a few bulbs to CFLs can close 18 coal plants, LOL.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 2, 2010)

wyager said:


> Um, LuxLuthor... That PDF you gave was totally useless, LOL. It was just an advertisement. According to the blackbody equations, 99.2% visible light is probably around the max efficiency your basic electric incan can hit (perhaps the numbers are a bit different, but the 99.2% figure sounds about right). so, a 100W bulb gives about .8 watts of visible light. Let's do some comparisons, all scaled to 100W
> 
> Red/IR c-mount laser diode-~50W
> InN/InGaN diode-20-30W (maybe even above 60 watts in freak cases)
> ...



LOL! Of course I only gave him a link to the Philips promotional PDF, as it was only to identify the item, as well as mentioning the Osram IRC. Most LED Jockeys have no idea either item exists, nor what the Osram IRC incan has achieved in terms of lumens/watt. I guess you missed the part where I prefaced those items by "may also check out" those bulbs. I'm not going to do his work for him when I already know his number is wrong. :laughing:

Despite my saying twice that I'm *not *only talking about efficiency, in true LED Jockey fashion, you of course ONLY bring up efficiency, leading off with some unrelated gibberish examples of Red/IR c-mount laser & InN/InGaN diodes, when we are talking about replacing home light bulbs. :nana: 

If you want to light your home with those, or even the most current crop of "modern high power LED's," be my guest. :tinfoil: Oh, and how's the heat working out on those "modern high power LED's"? How about their CRI?

To refresh your awareness, the topic is about being FORCED to abandon incands when some of us have not yet found an adequate (which includes CRI) and cost effective replacement. The "elites" suggested replacement is the mercury-containing CFL's that don't dim, supposedly give acceptable CRI output, and assume consumers are going to follow proper hazmat cleanup and disposal when they break or drop them, and are going to do something other than toss them into their rubbish to be crushed and dumped into the local landfill. :devil:

I'm glad that you at least saw fit to question the probability of the art school dropout's assertion of the CFL switch closing 18 of 21 coal plants.


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## wyager (Oct 2, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL! Of course I only gave him a link to the Philips promotional PDF, as it was only to identify the item, as well as mentioning the Osram IRC. Most LED Jockeys have no idea either item exists, nor what the Osram IRC incan has achieved in terms of lumens/watt. I guess you missed the part where I prefaced those items by "may also check out" those bulbs. I'm not going to do his work for him when I already know his number is wrong. :laughing:
> 
> Despite my saying twice that I'm *not *only talking about efficiency, in true LED Jockey fashion, you of course ONLY bring up efficiency, leading off with some unrelated gibberish examples of Red/IR c-mount laser & InN/InGaN diodes, when we are talking about replacing home light bulbs. :nana:
> 
> ...



Again-I'm not contesting the benefits of incans, I'm only saying that saying that incans are in any way efficient is plain stupid. The whole point of talking about those other diode types was to show that incans are archaic technology, and are extremely wasteful. Keep in mind, I use incans in my own house... However, attempting to deny that the blackbody property is the most wasteful way to generate light isn't very smart.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 2, 2010)

wyager said:


> Again-I'm not contesting the benefits of incans, I'm only saying that saying that incans are in any way efficient is plain stupid. The whole point of talking about those other diode types was to show that incans are archaic technology, and are extremely wasteful. Keep in mind, I use incans in my own house... However, attempting to deny that the blackbody property is the most wasteful way to generate light isn't very smart.



For the 20th time, my issue of preference with incands is not related to efficiency, or whether it is archaic technology. Those are your issues, and I really don't care about them until there is an adequate replacement available at a favorable price point that allows people to choose a different source. I have said that numbers/percentages mentioned earlier are not accurate, and no awareness is provided of diverse incan sources.

Whether it is "extremely wasteful" is your opinionated statement, but I have never made absolute claims about incan efficiency relative to other light sources, only that there are qualitative variations within the category that LED Jockeys are not aware of, and wouldn't represent it factually even if they learn about it. Once you have eliminated all of the frivolous light sources I mentioned previously, then home incans can be banned if there is still a good reason. 

You also have to step back and look at what is really driving this mad obsession with energy use that led to the ignorant light bulb banning, which I believe is totally unnecessary. I don't accept the reasons driving the whole conservation-only approach of energy management, or trying to dominate people through banning and bogus governmental regulation. I would rather see 25 nuclear plants built to supply additional clean energy rather than banning light bulbs. That would be what I consider a smart approach to the larger issue.


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## bulbman (Oct 15, 2010)

I've only ever found one cfl that I like that doesn't give me a headache and haven't been able to find another like it.
And
Cfl's don't always fit in old fixtures
And
Too many people won't be forced to use something they don't want to use
And
People will just import incandescent bulbs from somewhere they are still made like mercury batterys for old watches
And
Warm white led's are a poor imitation of incandescent bulbs
And
If it ever happens that nobody makes incandescent bulbs anymore I for one will use candles before being forced into ANYTHING, how's that for a "carbon footprint" 

Enough said!


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## wyager (Oct 15, 2010)

Candles are probably more efficient than incandescent lightbulbs, in terms of carbon footprint.
Lightbulb-
Coal mine>coal burning plant (or insert other potentially harmful power source)>wasteful power grid>transformer to your house>house wiring>incandescence.
Candle-
Petroleum industry waste product>shipping>incandescence.


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## copperfox (Oct 15, 2010)

LuxLuthor, I like you


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## bkumanski (Oct 15, 2010)

wyager said:


> Candles are probably more efficient than incandescent lightbulbs, in terms of carbon footprint.
> Lightbulb-
> Coal mine>coal burning plant (or insert other potentially harmful power source)>wasteful power grid>transformer to your house>house wiring>incandescence.
> Candle-
> Petroleum industry waste product>shipping>incandescence.


But try using a candle in a coal mine...

I must split the difference here with you two. While I agree (and understand the principal) that incans are not efficient, CFLs have too many issues (not for everyone, but some for many) such as headaches, poor quality (if they are mounted upside down like most new homes can lights they burn out fast due to heat), they have a noxious smell when they do (burning mercury anyone?), don't fit in all fixtures, have an odd color (even the neutral ones) and really don't seem to save all that much (didn't notice a change in my electrical bill by much) and what is saved is eaten up in the cost of the bulbs and their unrealistic lifespan. I mean common, how do you claim 5 years but get 4-6 months? Really? If cars were like this, we would all get our money back as lemons. If planes were like this, we wouldn't fly. Now tube florescents with separate ballasts seem to last forever, but those CFLs, unless mounted upright, don't last. I have tried several brands and no luck.

Regardless of what I think of the environment, MY pocketbook says they are worthless junk not ready for prime time. Efficiency is worthless if I am not the benefactor. Also, what about all of the decorative lighting? Lest we forget lights have aesthetic value beyond their ability to light our world. No CFLs in my chandelier or vanity :green:.


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## u238 (Oct 16, 2010)

copperfox said:


> LuxLuthor, I like you


I second this.

As far as the topic, I happen to absolutely despise fluorescent lights. I have never seen one that puts out pleasant light.


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## [email protected] (Oct 18, 2010)

True some of the output frequencies are nasty! but I've noted that here at least anyway stores have begun offering "warm white" CFL's which IMHO are a complete contrast to the previous limited offerings looking significantly more like traditional incandescent light output :thumbsup:


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## rookiedaddy (Oct 18, 2010)

I was using those warm CFLs... but I'm doing this now...





started stocking up...


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