# A general CFL question regarding safety



## CFLadopter (May 19, 2014)

We have mostly recessed and totally enclosed lighting in our home. The bulbs are flushed with the ceiling, and have a clear plastic panel covering the area. We use standard incandescent 60 watt bulbs in the edison styled fixtures. Now we plan on using CFL's(40-60watt equivalents), however, we do not have the money to convert to a more updated type of lighting in the house. My wife refused to leave the panels off due to the exposed fixtures being "ugly'. She's convinced nothing will happen other the possibility that the bulbs might burn out earlier than expected. It's to the point where it becomes an all week argument whenever the matter is brought up. My question is, just what are the chances of a fixture fire or one of those "house burning down" scenarios popping up? I can live with shorten lifespan CFL's but potential fire is a whole another matter. Thank you for your time.


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## dspiffy (May 20, 2014)

In my experience, it's only a lifespan issue.


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## FRITZHID (May 21, 2014)

If you're going to use cfl in an enclosed fixture, make sure you don't buy cheap bulbs! I've had several bad/close call experiences when I worked as a maintenance man for an apartment complex. They can over heat, fracture, even had several with burn holes where the ballast arc'd out thru the casing and even scorched the fixture.
I showed this to my boss and all cheap units were immediately pulled and replaced with either GE, Phillips or another well known name brand, these bulbs did not have any issues and lasted much longer.


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## TEEJ (May 21, 2014)

I replaced mine with LED instead of CFL, and never looked back.


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## FRITZHID (May 21, 2014)

TEEJ said:


> I replaced mine with LED instead of CFL, and never looked back.



Lol, yes Teeg but not everyone can afford that, and you have to be careful what LED bulbs you put into enclosed fixtures as well, not so much for fire hazard but leds and heat are not friendly. Lol


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## TEEJ (May 21, 2014)

Sure, but the output of the LED allows me to use a smaller cooler screw in than I'd otherwise need. Typically, fixtures for a 100 watt incan are more than adequate for LED use, as the incans made MORE heat for a given output.


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## FRITZHID (May 21, 2014)

Yes, incans make more heat, and the fixtures can handle it, but leds can't, so if you have an enclosed space with LED lamps inside and the heat can't escape the LED.... 
Hence my previous statement. Hate for someone to buy a bunch of LED lights and install them just to have them all go pop in a few weeks.
Be a costly error. Not to mention, probably turn said person off on LED lighting in the future.


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## TEEJ (May 21, 2014)

FRITZHID said:


> Yes, incans make more heat, and the fixtures can handle it, but leds can't, so if you have an enclosed space with LED lamps inside and the heat can't escape the LED....
> Hence my previous statement. Hate for someone to buy a bunch of LED lights and install them just to have them all go pop in a few weeks.
> Be a costly error. Not to mention, probably turn said person off on LED lighting in the future.





Hmmm, I have a bunch of LED in prior incan high hat recessed lights....just swapped out the incans and swapped in the LED, and, so far, its been a few years and the ~ 12 watt LED don't seem to be working with more heat than the ~ 75 watt incans they replaced?

Are you saying the same fixture the 75 w incan's screwed into, that worked with a cover, could not handle the 12 watt LED? Because the LED's electronic's heat from the fixture end, is harder to dissipate than the incan's heat from the bulb end?


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## FRITZHID (May 21, 2014)

TEEJ said:


> Hmmm, I have a bunch of LED in prior incan high hat recessed lights....just swapped out the incans and swapped in the LED, and, so far, its been a few years and the ~ 12 watt LED don't seem to be working with more heat than the ~ 75 watt incans they replaced?
> 
> Are you saying the same fixture the 75 w incan's screwed into, that worked with a cover, could not handle the 12 watt LED? Because the LED's electronic's heat from the fixture end, is harder to dissipate than the incan's heat from the bulb end?



Lol no, not at all, I'm saying the LED bulbs themselves couldn't handle the non ventilated space. The fixtures themselves wouldn't have any issue with an LED bulb BUT some LED bulbs require more cooling than others. Re- read my post and you'll see I said mind the type of light you buy cause some won't work well in a sealed fixture. They overheat and cook the LEDs. Not that the fixture couldn't handle the heat.

Remember, most LED bulbs require air movement for cooling.


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## hank (May 21, 2014)

> had several with burn holes where the ballast arc'd out thru the casing and even scorched the fixture.

I've seen that happen several times. No more "Lights of America" brand and no more no-name Chinese in this house.

The ceiling cans are supposed to be air-gapped up above in the attic space -- no insulation within some specified distance, mounted with metal brackets away from the wood rafters.

I put a combination ionization-and-photoelectric smoke detector in the attic ....


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## TEEJ (May 21, 2014)

So incans don't need air flow to cool them, and LED do?

I've seen a LOT of high hat fires from incan bulbs, so I'm not in any doubt whatsoever that they can get too hot, etc...ESPECIALLY when the pot is spec'd for an open hole on top, and the contractor lays the batting over it anyway, etc.

So, I see what you're getting at as far as flow, etc, and if he has wife mandated covers that will trap more heat...

Obviously, apply glow in the dark paint on all interior surfaces, and install sky lights and large windows.


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## FRITZHID (May 21, 2014)

hank said:


> > The ceiling cans are supposed to be air-gapped up above in the attic space -- no insulation within some specified distance, mounted with metal brackets away from the wood rafters.
> 
> I put a combination ionization-and-photoelectric smoke detector in the attic ....



That air gap is designed to make sure incan lamps don't set fire to anything, not to keep the bulb cool. In LED bulbs, the LEDs themselves are what need cooling, not housings. Free air flow is necessary on many LED bulbs, especially cheap ones.


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## TEEJ (May 21, 2014)

So rig a cpu fan to exhaust each fixture and you're good to go.


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## FRITZHID (May 21, 2014)

TEEJ said:


> So rig a cpu fan to exhaust each fixture and you're good to go.



Yeah, I _ really_ don't think that's what the OP is going for. Lol


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