# FourSevens Maelstrom MMU-X3



## Patriot (Nov 13, 2013)

http://www.foursevens.com/products/MMU-X3-AE

You guys know I'm a sucker for triple XM-L's, especially compact ones. This one is in a proven chassis but could it be right that low mode is a whopping 200L? :huh:

I wonder what the thought process was there.

Your thoughts on the light overall?


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## carrot (Nov 13, 2013)

As far as I'm concerned when we're talking about a light this size moonlight mode seems pointless. I get that moonlight is a great mode but jeez, it doesn't need to be on every light. 

I am happy that 47s is keeping it simple with the MMU-X3. It looks like it has two modes like its predecessor the MMU-X, which suits me fine and complements your usual EDC very nicely. Considering that it is meant for a more security-oriented market, I think these two output levels are reasonable. 200 lumens for over 10 hours sounds gravy. 

Surefire did something stupid when they picked 5 lumen low for the EB2 when its high was 500, why not something more useful like 15 or even 50? I am glad that 47s didn't fall into the same trap.


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## Overclocker (Nov 14, 2013)

well i'm not gonna be clamoring for a clicky tailcap since the 5A draw isn't gonna be healthy for it 

i'm just wondering how regulated it would be. but then again these are 3 XML2's driven at "only" 1600 lumens, that's just 533 lumens per LED, so this one's gonna be VERY efficient


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## Blue Angel (Nov 14, 2013)

Overclocker said:


> ...this one's gonna be VERY efficient



Compared to the MMU-HD it has 30% more output (without a burst mode), a wider more general purpose beam and FAR better run times, all on a single 26650 cell (vs. SIX cells). In a more compact package that costs half as much. Looks like they literally outdid themselves. Add a stainless strike bezel and Law Enforcement just found their new light.


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## DragonHead (Nov 14, 2013)

So is the math correct? 2hrs on High? at 1600lumens?


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## Norm (Nov 14, 2013)

Moved to LED Flashlights - Norm

 What to post in the General Flashlight Discussion Sub Fourum.


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## Jekyll & Hyde (Nov 14, 2013)

DragonHead said:


> So is the math correct? 2hrs on High? at 1600lumens?



And is that truly continuous without any stepdown? J&H


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## dts71 (Nov 15, 2013)

DragonHead said:


> So is the math correct? 2hrs on High? at 1600lumens?



Unfortunately not. At 5 amps the 4Ah battery would last ~45 minutes. It would be interesting to see how the thermal regulation works, but a step down to 650-800 lumens would be necessary to comply with the 2.5h run time.


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## Patriot (Nov 15, 2013)

Norm said:


> Moved to LED Flashlights - Norm
> 
> What to post in the General Flashlight Discussion Sub Fourum.




Thanks Norm, I must have hit the General tab with my fat thumb the other day. I appreciate the move.


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## Patriot (Nov 15, 2013)

dts71 said:


> Unfortunately not. At 5 amps the 4Ah battery would last ~45 minutes. It would be interesting to see how the thermal regulation works, but a step down to 650-800 lumens would be necessary to comply with the 2.5h run time.




Yeah, good catch on this DTS. For most of us it's obvious but it's still a very good and valid question from dragonhead. 

I guess my only remaining reservation would be with how they set up the thermal regulation. To be honest, my copper S12 stepped down (thermally) within minutes of high activation, and it wasn't very hot. After it stepped to low, then it would gradually decrease in brightness following battery voltage. I'm a bit worried that they're going to set up the MMU-X3's thermal regulation just as conservatively as they set up the S12. That would be a deal killer for me. The performance of the S12 was so disappointing that I didn't even review it and it's been waiting to be modded ever since.


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## carrot (Nov 15, 2013)

Whoa, wait a sec... where is this 5A figure coming from?

I couldn't pretend to know anything about the MMU-X3 but my much earlier MMU-X (or X10, as it was known) registers at 2.4A at the tailcap on high and 0.26A on low. 

I don't know what the MMU-X3 is running at but I think it's probably fair to say it's not running nearly as hard as the S12. That light and that LED was _generations_ ago and we all remember how power hungry the Luminus SST-90 was.


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## Patriot (Nov 15, 2013)

carrot said:


> As far as I'm concerned when we're talking about a light this size moonlight mode seems pointless. I get that moonlight is a great mode but jeez, it doesn't need to be on every light.
> 
> I am happy that 47s is keeping it simple with the MMU-X3. It looks like it has two modes like its predecessor the MMU-X, which suits me fine and complements your usual EDC very nicely. Considering that it is meant for a more security-oriented market, I think these two output levels are reasonable. 200 lumens for over 10 hours sounds gravy.




Yeah, I guess I sort of assumed it was more than a two mode. Not sure why :duh2: 

Based on the two modes, I'm fully on board with the output settings....and this is why I always like to run stuff by you guys because sometimes I miss things.


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## Overclocker (Nov 15, 2013)

carrot said:


> Whoa, wait a sec... where is this 5A figure coming from?
> 
> I couldn't pretend to know anything about the MMU-X3 but my much earlier MMU-X (or X10, as it was known) registers at 2.4A at the tailcap on high and 0.26A on low.
> 
> I don't know what the MMU-X3 is running at but I think it's probably fair to say it's not running nearly as hard as the S12. That light and that LED was _generations_ ago and we all remember how power hungry the Luminus SST-90 was.




from david chow, in the video. seems to be reasonable. my sc52 draws about ~1.6A at 500 lumens. 

my MMU-X Gen2 and X10 both draw ~3.0A


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## Patriot (Nov 15, 2013)

carrot said:


> Whoa, wait a sec... where is this 5A figure coming from?
> 
> I couldn't pretend to know anything about the MMU-X3 but my much earlier MMU-X (or X10, as it was known) registers at 2.4A at the tailcap on high and 0.26A on low.




I think the original 5A poster was just using the maximum design rating for the tailcap but he X10 was a single XM-L. Can't we assume the MMUX3 to be substantially higher?


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## carrot (Nov 15, 2013)

Patriot said:


> I think the original 5A poster was just using the maximum design rating for the tailcap but he X10 was a single XM-L. Can't we assume the MMUX3 to be substantially higher?



For sure. I was simply illustrating that the light may not necessarily draw at the max that the tailcap is rated for.


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## dts71 (Nov 16, 2013)

carrot said:


> Whoa, wait a sec... where is this 5A figure coming from?



In the video David states "nearly 5 Amps":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KiJVyEQjjZQ#t=30


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## Overclocker (Dec 6, 2013)

bump, anyone gotten theirs yet?


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## y260 (Dec 7, 2013)

I am hooked on nearly everything about this light- the design, emitters, size, etc. I'm just a little put off by the UI as I want to be able to momentary without switching modes. A high-only interface would've been fine for me in this kind of light.


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## HIDblue (Dec 8, 2013)

+1 on the UI.

I'm digging almost everything about the MMU-X3 except the UI. Seems like it would be too easy to inadvertently switch from high to low, and foursevens indicated in the MMU-X3 thread over in the cpf manufacturer's marketplace that it also has mode memory. I asked over there if the mode memory could be disabled but haven't gotten a response yet.


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## ernsanada (Dec 8, 2013)

Got my FourSevens Malestrom MMU-X3


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## Overclocker (Dec 8, 2013)

ernsanada said:


> Got my FourSevens Malestrom MMU-X3




looking good!

but how's the stepdown? and regulation?


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## HIDblue (Dec 8, 2013)

Nice pics ernsanada. 

How do you like the ouput, tint and UI?


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## romteb (Dec 9, 2013)

Patriot said:


> Your thoughts on the light overall?



It seems to be the same 3x X-ML light everybody released two years ago, with none of the UI, form factor, design, bells and whistles, and other improvements that appeared since, i'm skeptical.


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## 3Cylinders (Dec 14, 2013)

Any guesses on if this will be available with a Neutral tint? Is the size the same as the MMU-X or has it grown a bit bigger? How does the throw compare to the MMU-X?


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## UnderPar (Dec 16, 2013)

3Cylinders said:


> Any guesses on if this will be available with a Neutral tint? Is the size the same as the MMU-X or has it grown a bit bigger? How does the throw compare to the MMU-X?



With neutral tint? I have no idea. But in terms of its size, both are just the same. Throw wise, well both uses the same reflector. But MMU-X3 has 3 XM-L2 LEDs compared to only one by MMU-X. So MMU-X3 would give a higher illumination at the same throw and can even exceed MMU-X's throw. That's IMO.


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## carrot (Dec 17, 2013)

UnderPar said:


> Throw wise, well both uses the same reflector. But MMU-X3 has 3 XM-L2 LEDs compared to only one by MMU-X.



???


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## dc38 (Dec 17, 2013)

carrot said:


> ???



PARADOX! Maybe same diameter?


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## JasonC (Dec 19, 2013)

I got my MMU-X3 a couple of days ago and loving it so far . I would say it's my favourite light so far even though it is has a very basic operation. The size is just right and I prefer the extra thickness to an 18650 light, especially when wearing gloves. It is very bright, much brighter than my previously brightest light, the TK45. I've had to buy another charger to charge this battery but, the new charger also does 18650s etc so I can sell my old one 

Here's a shot if next to my Fenix TK45, Jetbeam ST Cycler and Maelstrom Atom.


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## HIDblue (Dec 19, 2013)

I broke down and bought the MMU-X3. So far, I'm really enjoying everything about the light except the UI. Fit and finish are excellent and it's quite a diminutive little light for a triple XM-L2. 

IMHO...the only downside of the MMU-X3 is the UI. My previous concerns about the UI were correct and it is too easy to inadvertently switch the light from high to low mode via momentary activation. It seems like as a Foursevens "tactical" series light it should always come on in High mode. You switch modes by activating the switch on/off within 1 sec, but my sample still switches modes up to 2 sec in duration and has mode memory. So, rapid use of momentary activation means the light will come in high mode one moment and low mode the next. Seems an odd choice of UI for a tactical light, but that's just my 2 cents...

Otherwise, it's a fantastic little Triple.


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## carrot (Dec 19, 2013)

I just got mine and I am thrilled. The original Maelstrom X10 (or MMU-X) has been a favorite light since its inception and the MMU-X3 is more of the same. On paper it's a bit of a big yawn because everyone else has been cranking out multi-LED beasts but the Maelstrom is special. It's incredibly compact, has a robust switch and lacks disco modes. This is a light you can shove into your back pocket or any jacket pocket and it's a light you don't need to be gentle with.

Again, its supreme compactness and high toughness/water-resistance makes the Maelstrom seriously cool.


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## Patriot (Dec 19, 2013)

Great feedback from you guys. I think I've been persuaded.  





> romteb
> It seems to be the same 3x X-ML light everybody released two years ago, with none of the UI, form factor, design, bells and whistles, and other improvements that appeared since, i'm skeptical.



Which other 3x XM-L's did you have in mind? I'm just speaking off the cuff but I can't remember any that used a 26650 or were of the same compact nature as this light. Even the Zebralight was quite a bit larger in diameter. I certainly wouldn't put it in the same category as a TM11, just because it has 3 XM'Ls.


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## 3Cylinders (Dec 20, 2013)

How is the beam profile and tint compared to the original X10? How about the throw? My X10 has been my go-to light since it was introduced due to its' size, simplicity and versatility. I'm really interested in this, but would need at least the same throw as the original X10, preferably a bit more. I'm going to guess the throw is similar, but floodier.


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## carrot (Dec 20, 2013)

I only briefly compared them last night because I was exhausted from a long week but the X10/MMU-X still has noticeably better throw than the MMU-X3. The hotspot is much tighter and also has greater lux. 

The MMU-X3 is not lacking in throw but the X10 definitely out throws it.


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## romteb (Dec 20, 2013)

Patriot said:


> Which other 3x XM-L's did you have in mind? I'm just speaking off the cuff but I can't remember any that used a 26650 or were of the same compact nature as this light. Even the Zebralight was quite a bit larger in diameter. I certainly wouldn't put it in the same category as a TM11, just because it has 3 XM'Ls.



I totaly overlooked the 26650 thingy, you can find 3x XM-L 26650 lights but they are obviously bigger than this one is, i had no idea it was so small before i looked at JasonC pictures, my interest went up quite a bit, too bad the UI is meh.


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## Overclocker (Dec 20, 2013)

would've been a killer with the 7777 "tactical" UI


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## carrot (Dec 20, 2013)

Anyone who has used Surefire's 2-mode clicky lights from the past half decade will have no problems navigating this user interface. It is a shame that the output can't be locked into one or the other but as I have no needs for a true tactical light I can't say I've ever had issues with this. 

If you wait just one or two heartbeats before turning the light back on after turning it off, it'll stay in its current mode. To me this is quite usable. I don't find myself flicking lights on and off repeatedly normally when I am using and not just playing.


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## scout24 (Dec 20, 2013)

Would someone be able to take a picture next to a 6P sized light? The pics posted were beautiful, but I'm not familiar with the other lights shown...


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## Slumber (Dec 20, 2013)

scout24 said:


> Would someone be able to take a picture next to a 6P sized light? The pics posted were beautiful, but I'm not familiar with the other lights shown...




Not my pic, but this is the closet I could find via google


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## 3Cylinders (Dec 21, 2013)

carrot said:


> I only briefly compared them last night because I was exhausted from a long week but the X10/MMU-X still has noticeably better throw than the MMU-X3. The hotspot is much tighter and also has greater lux.
> 
> The MMU-X3 is not lacking in throw but the X10 definitely out throws it.



Excellent! That's the info I was looking for. Thank you very much!


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## scout24 (Dec 21, 2013)

Thanks, Slumber pass! :thumbsup:


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## Swedpat (Dec 22, 2013)

It would be interesting to compare this with X10. But I wonder about the brightness: 1600lm performed by a single 26650 battery, can it really be flat(or almost) output? The X10(initial 800lm) slightly drops down to around 600lm during two hours, if I recall correct. 
Also I think there is still no single 18650 light which gives decent runtime at more than 700lm, so 1600lm is really much for a single 26650.


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## gopajti (Dec 22, 2013)

Guys this light is awesome.. output, quality, size, design.. no pwm flickering etc. Now this is the one of the best flashlight for me. otherwise the anodizing looks better than older Foursevens flashlights. Malestrom MMU-X3 and Regen looks more nicer matte black, than earlier models. Looks higher quality. 


some pics





with Olight S20-L2 and SR96





with Fenix LD41 (XM-L2 U2) and TK35 U2





with Jetbeam DDR30 and Fenix RC40


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## y260 (Dec 22, 2013)

HIDblue said:


> I broke down and bought the MMU-X3. So far, I'm really enjoying everything about the light except the UI. Fit and finish are excellent and it's quite a diminutive little light for a triple XM-L2.
> 
> IMHO...the only downside of the MMU-X3 is the UI. My previous concerns about the UI were correct and it is too easy to inadvertently switch the light from high to low mode via momentary activation. It seems like as a Foursevens "tactical" series light it should always come on in High mode. You switch modes by activating the switch on/off within 1 sec, but my sample still switches modes up to 2 sec in duration and has mode memory. So, rapid use of momentary activation means the light will come in high mode one moment and low mode the next. Seems an odd choice of UI for a tactical light, but that's just my 2 cents...
> 
> Otherwise, it's a fantastic little Triple.



Thanks for that, exactly what I was thinking about the UI. Still a very nice looking light though.


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## ernsanada (Dec 23, 2013)

HIDblue said:


> Nice pics ernsanada.
> 
> How do you like the ouput, tint and UI?



Sorry so long with the reply. I had to order another 26650 battery. My old battery that I ordered with my Malestrom MMU-X didn't work with my Malestrom MMU-X3. It wouldn't go into high. The new battery works fine.

The Malestrom MMU-X has more throw than the MMU-X3. I think it's because it has the single larger reflector than the X3. The MMU-X3 has more flood. More of a "wall of light" effect.

My MMU-X3 has a very very slight green tint that can be seen more in low around the hot spot. Not so noticeable in high. My MMU-X also has a very very slight green tint to its beam same characteristics of the MMU-X3 beam tint in low and high.


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## ernsanada (Dec 23, 2013)

Overclocker said:


> looking good!
> 
> but how's the stepdown? and regulation?



Sorry I've been very busy due to work and I have no time to check the step-down and regulation of the MMU-X3. Also it's the Christmas season. Sorry!


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## Patriot (Dec 23, 2013)

Swedpat said:


> It would be interesting to compare this with X10. But I wonder about the brightness: 1600lm performed by a single 26650 battery, can it really be flat(or almost) output?


 

Each XM-L2 is only driven to 533lm. At that output, they're very efficient. With that said, I don't know now "flat" the output will be. The S12 wasn't very flat with it's approx 4-5A draw. It would be nice to see a run-chart for this light.


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## C-channel (Jan 5, 2014)

Gentleman, any updates to the performance of this light? Thanks


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## hikingman (Jan 11, 2014)

C-channel said:


> Gentleman, any updates to the performance of this light? Thanks



This little beast, for its size and weight, is just awesome (as gopajti said) as is. I have not been out on a long hike with it, so I can't comment on run times, etc. But the short time I have had it out, it lit up all the country side I normally ever need to see and then some! It would be interesting indeed to see if it could be "juiced up" some more, but I love it just as it is.

I really don't care for the interface that much, but my S12 needed a companion:devil:


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## FlashKat (Jan 11, 2014)

The Vinh modified MMU-X3 is awesome!!! more output and throw.


hikingman said:


> This little beast, for its size and weight, is just awesome (as gopajti said) as is. I have not been out on a long hike with it, so I can't comment on run times, etc. But the short time I have had it out, it lit up all the country side I normally ever need to see and then some! It would be interesting indeed to see if it could be "juiced up" some more, but I love it just as it is.
> 
> I really don't care for the interface that much, but my S12 needed a companion:devil:


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## eric lovingood (Jan 13, 2014)

I have a two week old MMU X3 that I'll sell for what I payed for it. Battery charger and yeah it's all that. 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## eric lovingood (Jan 13, 2014)

Mine is for sale. I'll let it go for $120. It's great and I'm a no B.S guy. If you want it contact me and I'll send mail it same day. Thanks

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk


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## JasonC (Jan 14, 2014)

Just an update on my experience. I haven't used it a great deal but, the battery has started to go flat and I would have liked the light to have powered down to the 200LM level instead of turning off completely, this is a little annoying.

Additional to this, the 47s charger I got to charge the battery does not work at all so I'm now stuck with a flat battery  I've contacted 47s for advice but so far had no reply. Does anyone know of a decent quality charger for the 26650 battery?


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## Overclocker (Jan 14, 2014)

JasonC said:


> Just an update on my experience. I haven't used it a great deal but, the battery has started to go flat and I would have liked the light to have powered down to the 200LM level instead of turning off completely, this is a little annoying.
> 
> Additional to this, the 47s charger I got to charge the battery does not work at all so I'm now stuck with a flat battery  I've contacted 47s for advice but so far had no reply. Does anyone know of a decent quality charger for the 26650 battery?





well that's the low voltage protection kicking in so you could use unprotected 26650 like the King Kongs


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## JasonC (Jan 14, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> well that's the low voltage protection kicking in so you could use unprotected 26650 like the King Kongs



Oh ok, I guess using unprotected cells has it's own problems though


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## Overclocker (Jan 14, 2014)

JasonC said:


> Oh ok, I guess using unprotected cells has it's own problems though




i run uprotecteds on all my single-cell lights. very safe especially with lights with built-in low voltage cutoff like zebralights and this maelstrom (and x10, MMU-X)


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## JasonC (Jan 14, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> i run uprotecteds on all my single-cell lights. very safe especially with lights with built-in low voltage cutoff like zebralights and this maelstrom (and x10, MMU-X)



Will using these cells make the light just drop the output then instead of it turning off completely? are there any other benefits to using none protected cells? Also, what charger do you use? because after looking into the 47s one a little more, it seems a lot of people have had problems with them, including melting!


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## thedoc007 (Jan 14, 2014)

JasonC said:


> Does anyone know of a decent quality charger for the 26650 battery?



I just bought my first 26650, and I'm going to use my Nitecore i4 charger for it, as with every other battery I have (excepting my 10250 Nukes). Universal chargers are the way to go, in my opinion. I have two chargers, so I still have extra slots available even if it takes up 2 or 3 slots.


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## JasonC (Jan 14, 2014)

thedoc007 said:


> I just bought my first 26650, and I'm going to use my Nitecore i4 charger for it, as with every other battery I have (excepting my 10250 Nukes). Universal chargers are the way to go, in my opinion. I have two chargers, so I still have extra slots available even if it takes up 2 or 3 slots.



Thanks thedoc007, that charger looks far better! I'll order one asap. I also like the look of that 3500 Lumen tiny monster, now look what you've done!


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## Overclocker (Jan 14, 2014)

JasonC said:


> Will using these cells make the light just drop the output then instead of it turning off completely? are there any other benefits to using none protected cells? Also, what charger do you use? because after looking into the 47s one a little more, it seems a lot of people have had problems with them, including melting!



not gonna happen since the cutoff is built in the flashlight

i like unprotected because i know what i'm doing. if you're new to this i recommend protected. personally i use a hobby charger



thedoc007 said:


> I just bought my first 26650, and I'm going to use my Nitecore i4 charger for it, as with every other battery I have (excepting my 10250 Nukes). Universal chargers are the way to go, in my opinion. I have two chargers, so I still have extra slots available even if it takes up 2 or 3 slots.



nope. "universal" chargers actually suck e.g. Nitecore i4 sucks at charging eneloops and is too slow for charging 26650


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## JasonC (Jan 14, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> not gonna happen since the cutoff is built in the flashlight
> 
> i like unprotected because i know what i'm doing. if you're new to this i recommend protected. personally i use a hobby charger
> 
> ...



Ok thanks. I do actually have a hobby type charger that lets you set the mah, voltage etc but, I wanted something I could just plug the battery in and not mess with any settings, plus I don't have a holder for the 26650 for plugging it into that charger. I will investigate further! thanks for your help.


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## thedoc007 (Jan 14, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> nope. "universal" chargers actually suck e.g. Nitecore i4 sucks at charging eneloops and is too slow for charging 26650



That is your opinion, not a fact. True, the i4 isn't great for NiMH, but that isn't my primary use. And NiMH are very tolerant of abuse anyway, so even if it doesn't do the best job possible, I'm really not worried about it. It does a very good job with lithium ion, as long as you aren't in a hurry. I don't feel to need to charge at high rates anyway - slower charge (within reason) is better for the cells. I don't wait until the last minute to charge - I plan ahead, and so far both chargers have worked very well for me. And having the ability to charge virtually every kind of battery, from Ni-Cad to NiMH to lithium ion, from AAA to C size cells, with confidence/ease is worth a lot more to me than a theoretically better charging algorithm.

It has good reviews from the likes of selfbuilt and HKJ here on CPF, and excellent reviews on Amazon. Good enough for me.


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## Overclocker (Jan 14, 2014)

thedoc007 said:


> That is your opinion, not a fact. True, the i4 isn't great for NiMH, but that isn't my primary use. And NiMH are very tolerant of abuse anyway, so even if it doesn't do the best job possible, I'm really not worried about it. It does a very good job with lithium ion, as long as you aren't in a hurry. I don't feel to need to charge at high rates anyway - slower charge (within reason) is better for the cells. I don't wait until the last minute to charge - I plan ahead, and so far both chargers have worked very well for me. And having the ability to charge virtually every kind of battery, from Ni-Cad to NiMH to lithium ion, from AAA to C size cells, with confidence/ease is worth a lot more to me than a theoretically better charging algorithm.
> 
> It has good reviews from the likes of selfbuilt and HKJ here on CPF, and excellent reviews on Amazon. Good enough for me.




LOL. no need to be too defensive about your i4. even HKJ will tell you that he's not sure what type of termination algorithm the i4 is using which doesn't seem to be a proper negative delta-V. in my own testing it overheats cells. FACT is it does a bang up job of charging eneloops. if you wanna charge eneloops you're better of getting those bundled enloop smart chargers

as a li-ion charge it's pretty decent. just too slow for 26650. there's no benefit to super slow charging (i.e. 500ma) the big 26650. for the purposes of charging the mmu-x3 battery the user is better off buying something like an Xtar SP2 with ADJUSTABLE charge rates up to 2.0A which is LESS THAN 0.5C since the 7777 cells actually around ~4400mah


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## TEEJ (Jan 14, 2014)

If you use the IMR 26650 you don't need protection.

The light can be brighter w/o protection, as the protection adds resistance, etc....and the IMR versions can supply more amps, for a longer period.


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## thedoc007 (Jan 14, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> LOL. no need to be too defensive about your i4. even HKJ will tell you that he's not sure what type of termination algorithm the i4 is using which doesn't seem to be a proper negative delta-V. in my own testing it overheats cells. FACT is it does a bang up job of charging eneloops. if you wanna charge eneloops you're better of getting those bundled enloop smart chargers
> 
> as a li-ion charge it's pretty decent. just too slow for 26650. there's no benefit to super slow charging (i.e. 500ma) the big 26650. for the purposes of charging the mmu-x3 battery the user is better off buying something like an Xtar SP2 with ADJUSTABLE charge rates up to 2.0A which is LESS THAN 0.5C since the 7777 cells actually around ~4400mah



FYI, "bang up job" is actually an idiomatic term for very good...not what you intended to say, I think. 

I am aware of the downsides of the charger, and I never tried to dismiss them...I simply despise it when people make blanket statements like "it sucks" rather than pointing out pros and cons. For me, the NiMH issue is not important...so it is a good charger for me. 

Likewise, calling it too slow is a judgement call...for me, it is just fine. I'd rather charge at a slower rate (750 mA, the i2 is 500 mA) anyway. And I'm not defending MY charger...I'm pointing out the advantages of the Nitecore i4, for people not familiar with it. I already know how it works for me.


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## JasonC (Jan 19, 2014)

Ok, for the moment I'm going to stick with the current 7777s charger as I seemed to have got it working ok by tilting the battery slightly in the holder, not ideal I know but, I don't think I'll be using this as much now that my Nitecore TM26 has just arrived! this thing is bright and it's not a huge amount bigger than the MMU-X3  The MMU I think will end up on my bike! Here's a size comparison of my Jetbeam ST Cycler, MMU-X3 and Nitecore TM26...


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## tonkem (Feb 5, 2014)

Anyone have some beam comparisons of this light? Against other lights? thanks. Perfect if anyone has a Lupine Wilma TL and Betty TL to compare it to.


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## gopajti (Feb 6, 2014)

tonkem said:


> Anyone have some beam comparisons of this light? Against other lights? thanks. Perfect if anyone has a Lupine Wilma TL and Betty TL to compare it to.



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-MMU-X3-(3*XM-L2-1600lm)-pictures-impressions


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## tonkem (Feb 6, 2014)

Gopajti, any chance you have a Lupine Wilma TL or Betty TL to compare. I do not own any of the lights you have compared. I would not want to get another light that is too close in comparison to my Lupines. Thanks and I understand if you do not have the Lupines. 

Excellent review, by the way.


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## ven (Feb 6, 2014)

Just seen this,imo its a really nice light,surprisingly compact and basic UI.This makes a refreshing change instead of disco lights and multiple brightness levels(nothing against those).
The compact head with 3 leds makes it like a "really tiny monster" and like the 26650 size cell too and as said makes the light feel great in the hand.Holster wise i am not over impressed being honest,not much give in material which makes it less flexible if in a pocket(hardly a big deal) the press-stud is not over easy too,as the holster flexes a little when pressed due to the stud being quite hard to click in.

One of my favourite lights,from the grip and feel to the look.

Mine has been breathed on by vinh,6500k de-dome,so on an mkneIMR cell its around 3000lm,with a kinoko IMR cell vinh got 9.6A 3300lm gets toasty after a few minutes with the added grunt but does cool efficiently for its size.







Next to tm15







Little size comparison with from left-X3/M20/EA4/TK51/EA8/TM15




Next to the EA4




I love it:twothumbs

Sorry if seen pics as posted some on another thread

To add i either use my i4 or wp6 the i4 seems to fit the cell a little better.Charge time obviously takes longer than an 18650,around 1-2hrs more i found but cant be specific as did not measure the V(but presuming it was at 40% charge out of the box).Its no issue to me as i have 3x26650 cells


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## zs&tas (Feb 6, 2014)

thanks for the photos ! especially next to the M20, really helps me want one ! did you retain the low mode in your mod ?


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## ven (Feb 6, 2014)

zs&tas said:


> thanks for the photos ! especially next to the M20, really helps me want one ! did you retain the low mode in your mod ?



Hi there zs&tas ,yes it kept low mode,iirc its around 150lm which is fine for general use.Another pic with Roche and convoy m2


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## ALWZWFO (Feb 8, 2014)

I bit the bullet and bought one, had to wait 2 weeks since it was on backorder! Sadly, it was defective, after running 2 minutes on high it drops down to what looks like low and then starts blinking and brightness goes all over the place. I tried 3 different batteries all the same issue. Called the vendor, explained the problem, they immediately sent out another one. Speedy delivery, good service! 2nd one is even worse, I am so disappointed, as soon as you shut it off and back on again, it comes on in high. I put my thermocouple on it, it only got up to 38C on the fins before shutting down, not even close to hot yet. I need to call back on Monday to see if they can test another one before shipping again. I own several 4sevens lights and they have been flawless so far.


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## FlashKat (Feb 8, 2014)

Get one from Vinh. He modifies them, and backs up his work.


ALWZWFO said:


> I bit the bullet and bought one, had to wait 2 weeks since it was on backorder! Sadly, it was defective, after running 2 minutes on high it drops down to what looks like low and then starts blinking and brightness goes all over the place. I tried 3 different batteries all the same issue. Called the vendor, explained the problem, they immediately sent out another one. Speedy delivery, good service! 2nd one is even worse, I am so disappointed, as soon as you shut it off and back on again, it comes on in high. I put my thermocouple on it, it only got up to 38C on the fins before shutting down, not even close to hot yet. I need to call back on Monday to see if they can test another one before shipping again. I own several 4sevens lights and they have been flawless so far.


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## ven (Feb 9, 2014)

FlashKat said:


> Get one from Vinh. He modifies them, and backs up his work.



+1
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?377511-SOLD-WTS-X3vn-X10vn-Companion-3000-Lumen

3 left according to post


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## Ray-o-light (Aug 28, 2014)

Do you think the MMU-X3 will take the new King Kong 26700 batts? The 5,200+ mAh would be nice.


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## StorminMatt (Aug 28, 2014)

Ray-o-light said:


> Do you think the MMU-X3 will take the new King Kong 26700 batts? The 5,200+ mAh would be nice.



I don't know. But you can simply get a Keeppower 5200mAH IMR26650. This cell is, of course, just a standard 26650, and will fit without problems.


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## yz kid 69 (Aug 28, 2014)

I am considering this light for my duty belt. Does anyone know if 4seven will be making a upgraded/newer model of this? I don't want to get outdated so quickly! Thanks


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## Danielsan (Sep 7, 2014)

I have some question about this light, does this light offer a low battery warning? If not, i will not buy it because its a bit dangerous. Will this light work with this battery 
[h=1]"Enerpower 26650 4500mAh Li-ion Akku 9A/PCB"[/h]
Can the Xtar Vp2 Charger load the above battery?


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## thedoc007 (Sep 7, 2014)

Danielsan said:


> I have some question about this light, does this light offer a low battery warning? If not, i will not buy it because its a bit dangerous. Will this light work with this battery
> *"Enerpower 26650 4500mAh Li-ion Akku 9A/PCB"*
> 
> 
> Can the Xtar Vp2 Charger load the above battery?



It does not have a low battery warning.

It will work with just about any size 26650, for 65mm (standard unprotected) to 70mm (longer than typical protected). It has a pretty big spring.

The VP2 will accommodate that cell just fine, as well.


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## Ray-o-light (Sep 7, 2014)

Thanks for the info guys!


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## StorminMatt (Sep 7, 2014)

Danielsan said:


> I have some question about this light, does this light offer a low battery warning? If not, i will not buy it because its a bit dangerous.



This light doesn't have a low battery warning. It does have low voltage protection. But it just suddenly cuts power without warning. It isn't dangerous to use with unprotected batteries, though.


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## Danielsan (Sep 7, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> This light doesn't have a low battery warning. It does have low voltage protection. But it just suddenly cuts power without warning. It isn't dangerous to use with unprotected batteries, though.



oh, so it has a low voltage protection instead of a low voltage warning? But the thing is most lights with those low voltage protections switching off to late in my mind. Ive read that you should drain the battery not under 3.3V and i bet the low voltage protection will kick in alot under that. Ppl say it is bad for the battery when the internal protection switch of the battery kicks in and that could be the case with this light then. So you will constantly hit the internal battery protection when there is no indicator LED to warn you. I dont think that is a good thing and more and more flashlights these days use LED indicators or at least the flashlight will blink when a low level is reached.


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## thedoc007 (Sep 7, 2014)

Danielsan said:


> oh, so it has a low voltage protection instead of a low voltage warning? But the thing is most lights with those low voltage protections switching off to late in my mind. Ive read that you should drain the battery not under 3.3V and i bet the low voltage protection will kick in alot under that. Ppl say it is bad for the battery when the internal protection switch of the battery kicks in and that could be the case with this light then. So you will constantly hit the internal battery protection when there is no indicator LED to warn you. I dont think that is a good thing and more and more flashlights these days use LED indicators or at least the flashlight will blink when a low level is reached.



People say a lot of things...doesn't necessarily make it true. There are a number of companies making lithium-ion cells, and each cell is rated for a specific voltage range. Most recommend not discharging below 2.5-2.75 volts. HKJ does a LOT of high-quality battery testing, and he has found 2.8 volts to be an appropriate minimum...has not had any cells be damaged or lose capacity at that level. Nor is it bad for the battery when protection kicks in...in fact, that is definitely a good thing...it prevents it from being over-discharged, and THAT is bad for the cell. I don't think you should rely solely on that...any circuit can fail, including a protection circuit...but it is there to protect your cell against human error.

The MMU-X3 cuts off at three volts, according to the manual. So you are definitely not going to damage the cell simply by letting it run too long, if the cutoff works properly. As you use a light, generally you get a pretty good idea how long it can run before the voltage gets low...so it shouldn't be a total surprise. High mode (at least, perhaps low mode as well) will start dimming well before the cutoff. 

It will be much more expensive, but if the low voltage warning is really important to you, maybe you should check out the TM26. It has a readout that can display the exact voltage at any given time, and an estimate of remaining runtime. Completely removes the guesswork from the equation.


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## ven (Sep 7, 2014)

Use it for around an hour,check V then if plenty left carry on till you get an idea "example" that 2hrs of use the cells maybe at 3.6v,then you know when to charge back up. Only need to do it at first,then you know works for me as i have so many different lights,cells,multi cells etc.


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## Danielsan (Sep 7, 2014)

thedoc007 said:


> People say a lot of things...doesn't necessarily make it true. There are a number of companies making lithium-ion cells, and each cell is rated for a specific voltage range. Most recommend not discharging below 2.5-2.75 volts. HKJ does a LOT of high-quality battery testing, and he has found 2.8 volts to be an appropriate minimum...has not had any cells be damaged or lose capacity at that level. Nor is it bad for the battery when protection kicks in...in fact, that is definitely a good thing...it prevents it from being over-discharged, and THAT is bad for the cell. I don't think you should rely solely on that...any circuit can fail, including a protection circuit...but it is there to protect your cell against human error.
> 
> The MMU-X3 cuts off at three volts, according to the manual. So you are definitely not going to damage the cell simply by letting it run too long, if the cutoff works properly. As you use a light, generally you get a pretty good idea how long it can run before the voltage gets low...so it shouldn't be a total surprise. High mode (at least, perhaps low mode as well) will start dimming well before the cutoff.
> 
> It will be much more expensive, but if the low voltage warning is really important to you, maybe you should check out the TM26. It has a readout that can display the exact voltage at any given time, and an estimate of remaining runtime. Completely removes the guesswork from the equation.



No, if the light cuts off at 3.0V its perfect for me, then i dont need the low voltage indicator. I just thought the light cutting off at 2.5V or something like that but if it cuts off at 3.0V i dont have to worry at all, jsut use it until it cuts off. I like it that the light has only 2 modes, keep it simple is sometimes better. The 200 lumen mode seems very practical for everything. I think i will go for the Enerpower 4500mah


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## StorminMatt (Sep 7, 2014)

Danielsan said:


> No, if the light cuts off at 3.0V its perfect for me, then i dont need the low voltage indicator. I just thought the light cutting off at 2.5V or something like that but if it cuts off at 3.0V i dont have to worry at all, jsut use it until it cuts off. I like it that the light has only 2 modes, keep it simple is sometimes better. The 200 lumen mode seems very practical for everything. I think i will go for the Enerpower 4500mah



Not only does it cut off at 3.0V, but the battery will typically rest back to 3.3-3.4V - at least if you run your light on high. As far as the battery, I would actually go for the Keeppower 5200 IMR. This battery works well, and gives you LOTS of runtime (about 2:30-2:40 on high).


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