# 75W HID issue



## weidmark (Dec 25, 2011)

Hey,

I just got my first HID light... the 75W HID ebay. I knew not to expect the greatest quality, but as this is my first HID... I do not know if the spot is looking how it should. It looks extremely "ringy". I'll try to get pics up later as I am sure it is hard to diagnose without pictures.

My main problem is a battery problem "i think". Sometimes after taking it out of the charger and putting it in the torch, when i click it on, it will go on for a fraction of a second... and then go out. And it seems the battery is dead as clicking the battery does not turn on the LED in the tail.

What I do it take the battery out (clicking the button still does not turn LED on) put it in the charger, then click the button again, now the LED turns on and when i put it back in the torch everything works.

Does anyone know what might be going on?


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## TheRealDoodle (Dec 25, 2011)

i have no idea what you mean by ringy, but if you read the other thread about this light, titled 35/55/75w hid in ebay, you will see that the chargers are overcharging the battery, You need to test the voltage with a multimeter and see what you get.


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## axim (Dec 26, 2011)

Please read my entries in the other thread below
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?322941-75W-55W-35W-HID-Flashlight-in-Ebay


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## weidmark (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks! That is my exact problem. So i guess my battery is being overcharged. I wonder if the ebay seller would send me a new battery.



axim said:


> Please read my entries in the other thread below
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?322941-75W-55W-35W-HID-Flashlight-in-Ebay


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## mohanjude (Dec 27, 2011)

weidmark said:


> Hey,
> 
> I just got my first HID light... the 75W HID ebay. I knew not to expect the greatest quality, but as this is my first HID... I do not know if the spot is looking how it should. It looks extremely "ringy". I'll try to get pics up later as I am sure it is hard to diagnose without pictures.



When I got this HiD the beam was full of circles. I focused the beam by twisting the outer bezel. It feels stiff and the manual says not turn it but if you grab it firmly untwist it it will give and you will able to get a better beam - I say better as I still think the beam is flawed when you look at it in a White wall. The HID beams have this to some degree butbcompared to the Polarion this is pronounced. For the price of this HID it is minor inconvenience.


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## axim (Dec 27, 2011)

I think the problem is not only the battery but also the charger overcharging the battery and the ballast not properly limiting the current.


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## weidmark (Dec 27, 2011)

I have run into another issue. I am not sure if it is related to the battery.

When i click it 3 times (to go to high), it will go to high for a fraction of a second then go back to low.

I am able to click twice and have the light stay on medium. It just will not stay on high.


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## mohanjude (Dec 27, 2011)

My HID refuses to go in high when the battery is becoming low after use. I think your battery appears to lack the capacity to supply the power required for operation on high.

As I said before this HID has issues - my battery life is not as long others on the forum and this after buying 2 spare new batteries which have more or less operating time.


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## weidmark (Dec 27, 2011)

mohanjude said:


> My HID refuses to go in high when the battery is becoming low after use. I think your battery appears to lack the capacity to supply the power required for operation on high.
> 
> As I said before this HID has issues - my battery life is not as long others on the forum and this after buying 2 spare new batteries which have more or less operating time.



That is what I maybe thought too... however the light sometimes still goes on for a split second then shuts off as if the voltage is still too high on the battery.


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## mohanjude (Dec 27, 2011)

In my experience I think it is a drop in voltage that causes this type of behaviour. It may be that the cells are damaged from overcharging. The cells are very sensitive to overcharging. Once they are overcharged they rapidly sag under load. I am a avid RC enthusiast and use Lipo cells all the time - charging and balancing them and discharging them at 20-30 c (ie 120amps per cell) . They puff at the slightest mishandling if you overcharge or discharge below 2.9V. Li-Ion cells are a little bit more forgiving than Lipobut still can be damaged . In the past when I have overcharged 123 cells (which are very good at high discharge 20-30c - but only 3.3V) they have shortned the life considerably. 123 cells are not popular in flashlights from what I can see. They however offer the high discharge amps of 20-30c - a 3 amp cell could discharge 90amps at peak !!


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## ma_sha1 (Dec 27, 2011)

The ebay 75W HID scares me. The 6600mah battery is 2200mah 18650 3S3P, total of 9 cheap Lipo 18650s packed together, it's like a ticking time bomb, I am afraid sooner or later, it may blow-up on someone.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?262234-TK-Monster-Explosion


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## TheRealDoodle (Dec 28, 2011)

There is also a 7600mah. Either way they are still cheap and mine was only reading 10.4v so its been sitting for some time now.


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## weidmark (Dec 28, 2011)

So I was testing the battery.

I took the battery out of the charger at 12.0V (light was still red indicating an incomplete charge)

I was using the light, then all of a sudden it happened again. Light turned on for a fraction of a second then went dark. 

I tested the battery at this time and the voltage was 0.85V.

Then i plugged the battery in for a second... took it back out and the voltage went back up to 11.86V.

Is there anything that can be done about this? I wouldn't ever be able to go anywhere with this light as it seems this can happen at any time.


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## mohanjude (Dec 28, 2011)

Your battery is faulty - it does not appear to be retaining a charge. One or more of your cells is damaged. Therefore the whole packs overcharges to try and compensate for the low voltage cells. The battery design may not be balancing the cells properly. I have not opened the battery but the charger should refuse to charge such a pack. If you continue to charge this pack in the hope of making it work you are going to damage the rest of the cells. If you are not able to return the pack for replacement it will require the pack to be opened and the faulty cells replaced - not something easy to do unless you are familiar with assembling lithium packs.


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## shrxfn (Dec 28, 2011)

I am having the same problem with my ebay HID. I tried measuring the voltage on the battery using the D and + terminals and got no voltage reading at all. Am I using the correct poles to measure voltage? When I flip that switch on the battery the LEDs come on so I am assuming that there is some voltage in there and I am not sure why I cannot measure it.


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## 51coronet (Dec 29, 2011)

how much trouble is it to open up the pack and replace the batteries? I assume they are 18650 batteries in the pack? If not what are they? Thanks for any info on this I have yet to purchase 1 of these lights and this may be the deciding factor. I have plenty of good 18650 batt. So replacing the junk inside will be a great option.


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## mohanjude (Dec 29, 2011)

It is not difficult to open the pack up. However the batteries generally tend to be spot welded using the tabs on the batteries. These can be difficult to resolder using a conventional iron unless it is very hot. If you dont have a very hot iron you need to hold the iron on the battery terminals for longer period of time which leads to the battery getting very hot (something you want to avoid). It is also quite difficult to repack it snugly to make it fit inside the cylinder on occasion.
Generally the first pack you do takes the longest and with practice you can do it faster. Unless you have good solder skills, a hot iron and some experience working with Li-Ion batteries I would be careful with DIY on this pack.


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## mohanjude (Dec 29, 2011)

I am contemplating taking apart one the battery packs apart. Mine works fine so I am trying to convince myself to do it. It has a short life presumably because the cells lack capacity but hold voltage at the start reasonably well.

I want to find out what type of cells they are using, the quality of the soldering and to see if there is any balancing circuity inside the pack.

I bought a spare pack for £40 delivered on the auction site (it is a heavy pack so 10% of that would have been postage) - that is approx $60. This pack should contain 12 x 18650 (3.7v x3 x3 as it is a 7800ma) = 3s3p 3.7v 2600ma batteries. That is a lot of cells to replace.

I have worked out that I could not realistically buy single cells at £3 ($4.50) each to assemble this pack. This leads me to the conclusion that the cells that are used in the manufacturer are possibly low quality cells that are not matched, have poor performance and possibly cast off cells from the cell manufactuers.

If I were to strip this pack down and rebuild it using quality cells it would cost me approx £120 at least using the Panasonic cells on the popular auction site. If I use AW or other top branded cells that are premium cells the battery pack would be £150 in cells --0 more than the cost of the HID itself.

I am still not sure if I want to spend that kind of money to prop this HID up. In fairness a spare Polarion Battery pack that I bought recently set me back nearly $220 so I cant really grumble.


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## 51coronet (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks for the response regarding the pack. I have opened up some cheap cells that I did buy from several of the common sites and found that in some cases the cells were just rewrapped used batts. I did this because I have some 3amp xml lights that would just shut off when turned on. Removing the protection circuit then wrapping the batt in electrical tape was the perfect solution. Some of the protection circuits cut off above 2 amps.

If the mentioned HID has a good solution that I can address at home it makes it all the better. I don't mind spending some time making cheap stuff better. It's when the supposedly good expensive stuff fails that bothers me.


On to the bulb. Is it a fairly common type of bulb? Excuse my ignorance in the HID world I have been in the led world. Are bulb and ballast 1 unit not separate? If the bulb burns out do you need an entire ballast and bulb fixture?

Thanks for any additional info on this light.


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## mohanjude (Dec 29, 2011)

51coronet said:


> On to the bulb. Is it a fairly common type of bulb? Excuse my ignorance in the HID world I have been in the led world. Are bulb and ballast 1 unit not separate? If the bulb burns out do you need an entire ballast and bulb fixture?
> 
> Thanks for any additional info on this light.



The seller of this torch sells the bulb and ballast as a single unit. I am sure it can be taken apart but as it stands he sells them as a set. It is cheap enough to just replace the whole lot IMHO.


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## TheRealDoodle (Jan 1, 2012)

Contact your seller and request a replacement. You will have to send the faulty unit back, but it going to be cheaper than buying a new one. That is if your seller is honest. Has it been longer than 30 days since you bought it/where did you buy it?


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## 51coronet (Jan 4, 2012)

Ok here it is. I received one of these lights today in the 85w version. I am able to duplicate the problem described. The light will flash then shut off when fresh from the charger.

What I did to avoid this happening was to turn on the front 3xLED let lights then turn them off and also turn the rear red blue green led on then off which is pretty much how you cycle through high med low.

It could be the entire cycle I did or just part of it but did this 2 times after I took the pack off the charger and neither time the light flashed then turned off. When I didn't do this the light flashed then turned off and I had to plug the pack back into the charger to get any response from it.

Seems like a weird protection type circuit is in there causing this.


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## JulianP (Jan 4, 2012)

I had a similar experience with my HID battery pack. The spring-loaded terminals pushed one bare wire against the other (inside the battery pack) when the flashlight cap was screwed on tightly. This caused an internal short, which triggered the overload protection. Hence, a fully charged battery would read near 0 volts. Removing the battery from the flashlight removed the pressure on the terminals, and plugging it into the charger reset the the overload protection. 

The fix was to open one end of the battery pack, push onto the gold-plated terminals to identify the point of contact, and wrap insulation tape around the bare wire. The problem was solved.


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## axim (Jan 4, 2012)

That sounds good! I wish that is the solution for all the problems of the same type appearing here. I thought it might also have to do with the high battery voltage. What is your voltage when fully charged?

Did you take some images of the spring causing the short circuit? I never disassembled the pack so far.


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## JulianP (Jan 5, 2012)

The battery pack reads 12.4v when fully charged. It probably has 3 x 18650 batteries inside. I did not take photos of the spring inside, but if your battery pack has 3 spring-loaded gold plated terminals, it is similar to mine. Just remove the screws from the terminal end, and gently pull away the clear plastic end from the metal casing. You should be able to see inside the pack without desoldering or disconnecting anything. 

It was tricky to diagnose this weird problem at first, as removing and charging the pack for a few second fixed the problem. Sometimes the flashlight would work normally, because the cap was not screwed back tightly. It would then stop working, until I realized the slightest bump was bringing on the short circuit. 

Cheap flashlight certainly keep one busy!


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## 51coronet (Jan 6, 2012)

If your pack is like mine it has a front LED switch and a rear switch that toggles the low med high modes. If I place the pack into the light fresh from the charger and turn the light on it will flash then no response at all until I put it back on the charger. However If I toggle the modes first as well as toggle the front led switch before placing the pack in the light I avoid the flash dead syndrome. You should try this and see if it works. It works for mine, I know it's an extra step to take but sure beats a dead light.


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## dudemar (Jan 7, 2012)

My best advice: avoid the eBay lights. If you haven't already figured it out, those wattage numbers are gimmicks to get someone to buy this poorly built light. Put the money into a light that works like the N30, and be happy with it.


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## 51coronet (Jan 9, 2012)

N30 is out of stock and discontinued :thumbsdow. Not much other camparible options out there for the money currently.


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## mohanjude (Jan 9, 2012)

I am wondering if there are differing qualities of this flashlight been sold. If you look at the auction site the same flashlight is sold at various prices by the same seller. It can vary unto $40 - sometimes shipping is included, at other times an extra battery is included - however when you factor in the sum total there is a variation. Could it be the QC of the products on offer ? My charger does not over charge the batteries - the batteries are not perfect either but I don't need to play games with the switches to make them work.


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## dudemar (Jan 10, 2012)

51coronet said:


> N30 is out of stock and discontinued :thumbsdow. Not much other camparible options out there for the money currently.



The L35 and L30 are great alternatives, not to mention the Mega Illuminator and Illuminator. If you spend a few more bucks on these lights you won't regret it. I've personally handled the L30 and it's rock solid all the way. The eBay lights never had a good track record here in the HID forum, going all the way back to the 35W version. FWIW you're better off spending a few more dollars getting a much better HID.


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## RCantor (Jan 20, 2012)

Battery Junction has the N30 in stock and on sale.

I just recieved the 75W HID from ebay and the light on the charger comes on but the red charging light on the battery doesn't come on. I got 2 batteries and both are the same. Is there something I'm not doing? Should I click the rear switch? Slide the front black switch to on? 

Never mind. The red light on the charger turns green when the charging is done. My batteries work fine.


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## TheRealDoodle (Jan 21, 2012)

JulianP said:


> The battery pack reads 12.4v when fully charged. It probably has 3 x 18650 batteries inside.



Fortunately I havent had this problem, probably because my pack only charges to 10.5v  But you are partially right about there being 3x18650's. There is 3 stacks of 3x18650's making 9.


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## stollman (Jan 22, 2012)

I just checked both of my 7800mah batteries I purchased for this light, and after just 30 days of storage, they both seem "dead". I emailed the seller and am waiting to hear back. I have a bad feeling about this battery problem. Unfortunately, I purchased it before this thread was started. Live and Learn


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