# Why one of my most pricy headlamps is relegated to th bedside: Zebralight fans beware



## carrot (Oct 25, 2011)

I caved not too long ago and bought a Zebralight on the recommendations of others here. 

(Caved, as in gave in, not going caving, in this case.)

I thought that the mass consensus had to be right: they were right about many of the other lights I have purchased on recommendation.

I got an H31Fw. I specifically picked it because people crowed about how good the neutral white tint was for the outdoors, because I love flood, and because I expected to be using it in all manner of weather conditions, including extreme cold. 

_It is not going to be seeing any of these.
_
This past year I have been fortunate enough to be graced with the company of many people who share my enthusiasm for what I might deem "extreme outdoors appreciation." We're talking 20 mile day hikes on rugged terrain, often with at least a few of those miles by artificial light alone, not even my more technical pursuits of mountain biking and rock climbing.

This has meant that headlamps have become an even more important part of my kit. I have been testing all manner of headlamps from the high end to the low end. Often, I will have to lend out one or more headlamps out to my hiking group, as though they are already prepared in many other ways, including emergency gear and extra clothing, they are still Unenlightened. It also fortunately means that I get to see a lot of headlamps in action, and that I get to evaluate them on a long-use basis, which is often difficult to orchestrate otherwise.

All of the headlamps that I have used from traditional headlamp manufacturers (mostly of the 3xAAA style) pass with flying colors. Unfortunately, the Zebralight H31Fw does not, and I am very disappointed, as I had high hopes for it, being both lightweight and powerful.

*Here is why:
*Headlamps are often used for quite lengthy periods of time, as it is natural for the user to simply forget that the illumination so conveniently provided is emitted by an electronic device on his head, as well as simply being needed for such lengths. 

As such, the Zebralight H31Fw _does not offer sufficient runtime_, as rated on the official website. 0.9 hours or 2 hours on high is simply unacceptable. Its greatest feature, high output, is also its greatest downside! Now, of course this can be mitigated by simply using it on medium, for 12 or 23 hours. Unfortunately, there is no way to make medium the default output level, as a single click (the easiest action) immediately goes to high, and the way to access the lower modes (long click or double click) requires far more dexterity of cold fingers. 

This incredibly low runtime or poor UI decision (depending on your point of view) would be pretty much quite acceptable if not for the worse side of it: _there are no low battery indicators_, and _if the battery is low enough the light won't even turn on_, even if it was working minutes before!

This has happened twice now to me in actual use, and is pretty much repeatable with every low battery I have in my used cells bin. 

Let me relate to you my most recent dayhike this weekend, a leisurely 15 mile hike that ran for several hours after dusk. We are wearing headlamps and we reach the top of a mountain, a nice bald peak with low trees and a great clear view of the sky. We drop our packs, grab some snacks, and turn off our headlamps to enjoy the beautiful night sky, to observe the light pollution from the city, and to save battery power. 

At this point, my Zebralight H31Fw had been running on medium (M1/37lm) for a couple of hours and seemed to have no sign of stopping, still putting out ample light. I shut it off to save battery power and enjoy the cool dark night.

A few moments later, we finish our snacks and decide it's time to move on. She clicks on her Tikka 2 (a loaner) and I click on my H31Fw. Nothing happens. I click it again. More nothing. And again. Nothing.

At this point, I realize what has happened. The battery has fallen in voltage, either by cold weather or by usage, below the headlamp's regulator circuit's necessary startup voltage. The startup voltage, like in many smarter or regulated lights, is higher than the necessary voltage to keep the light running. Effectively it means the battery is dead, as far as the headlamp is concerned.

At this point, I am frustrated. I assumed that I'd have enough runtime to finish this hike safely because there was no sign of low battery. I stow the Zebralight.

Luckily, I have a second headlamp in my pack, my new Black Diamond Spot that I have been testing. I click it on. The battery meter blinks red, indicating that it is very low on batteries. I'd been using it a lot the past few weeks, walking around the house as well as adventures on the weekends. It's dim, dimmer than the Tikka 2 on a used but still relatively new set of batteries, but thanks to the throwy lens setup it's enough that I can continue to lead the way back to the trailhead. We sling our packs and go.

I count the batteries in my head mentally. I still have two spare AAs for my GPS. I still have four CR123s for my Surefire L1 and Zebralight H31Fw. I still have my rechargeable Petzl Tikka XP2 CORE and three spare AAAs for that (or the BD Spot, or the Tikka2). But changing batteries is an extra hassle I'd rather avoid.

Which brings me to my last problem. Changing batteries. On the Zebralight it is a hassle, perhaps even a liability to change batteries. You don't want to get any water inside, right? So you have to stop what you're doing, fumble around in the dark to find your spare batteries, and then fumble around some more to put a new battery in and screw the cap on. Hold on a second! Where'd you put the cap? The cap's gone! You've dropped it in a stream, off a cliff, down the trail. The battery cap is too easy to lose because it is not attached!

Normally this is not a big issue for me. Pretty much every flashlight has a detachable battery cap. The Surefire Saint Minimus has a detachable battery cap. This is just nitpicking right? Wrong. That's the last problem, and it compounds on the other two, which combined, make the Zebralight totally unsuitable for my needs. In other words, the last straw.

On all other headlamps I have used, you are given ample warning that your battery is going to die. How this situation is presented to you ranges from the cleverly minimal to the incredibly complex. Some simply dim down when the batteries run dry. Others have power indicators. Some do both!

This is actually the most important feature of a headlamp: being given the opportunity to milk the batteries as long as possible, until YOU are ready to replace them, not until the headlamp is ready (read: can't turn on) to replace them. _This lets you get done safely with whatever you were doing and swap the batteries at the most opportune time for you to do so. 

_It is incredibly important for some uses of a headlamp that you not be forced to replace the batteries at any given point. You should be able to do it at your convenience. That means you don't need to change your headlamp's batteries when you are up to your chest in water. You don't need to change your batteries when you are hanging on a cliff face (climbers hate to be forced down in the middle of a climb!). You don't need to change your batteries when you are cold and tired and your fingers are numb because you've been hiking in the cold, wet, dark weather for the past few hours. 

I do concede that the Zebralight is lightweight, powerful, well-made, and aesthetically pleasing with a fairly intuitive user interface. However, the above problems combined are too much for me to overlook.

*A few notes on other qualms:
*In my experience thus far, the neutral white tint does not give me anything special for hiking. Yes, it is nicer to look at things with it. No, it doesn't help me see the trail better, or obstacles I encounter, or even noticeably add contrast to the world around me. Hi CRI, on the other hand, as tested with the HDS EDC Hi-CRI P4, does make a difference, a notable one in fact. My fault for not waiting for the H31c to come out. Do I recommend a "w" model? Maybe. Things do look better, but only up close, like, in my hands close. At any distance, I could hardly tell the difference between neutral-white and cool-white LEDs. I still felt like I was "walking on the moon."

The flood is lovely for seeing the trail directly ahead of your feet, and beautiful for reading maps. However, there is simply not enough throw with the frosted glass to see trail markers and blazes ahead of you, nor enough to get a good sense of your surroundings. My fault for picking an H**F model. Do I recommend an F model? Yes, but not for hiking blazed or wooded trails where the path ahead may be non-obvious.

The silicone holder feels weird on my head. I don't like to wear the Zebralight without a hat under it. With the hat, however, I could care less how weird the silicone holder is.

For these, YMMV. Under the conditions I used my lights in, this was my direct observation.

One last note that is guaranteed to come up in response:
"You should use rechargeables so that you are always guaranteed a minimum runtime from the start." -- I will try them as soon as I can find some of my RCR123s. They seem to have all grown legs and disappeared. It still doesn't fully mitigate the problems.

"You should use the AA version" -- No. I always use my Eneloops in mated pairs and as for primaries, the temptation is too great to use alkalines over the much more expensive lithiums. And everyone knows that alkalines are the #1 source of grief amongst new flashaholics.

*TL;DR:
*My H31Fw has four problems, of which each alone would not be cause for major concern, but combined, cause serve to make the light unsuitable for my needs.

These concerns are:
- Runtime (on the default setting) is way too low
- No low battery warnings
- Startup voltage of circuit is too high: light can be running fine and will not turn back on if turned off
- Battery cap is not tethered or otherwise permanently attached

*PS:*
As some solace to Zebralight lovers, I will no longer complain about past quality control or reliability issues as perceived or reported, since I cannot say the same from experience.

*PPS:
*To Zebralight, if you are listening: If you correct my top three issues, I'll buy more headlamps from you. Seriously, no grudge here. If they are taken care of, an H31c would shoot to the top of my favorite headlamps list pretty quickly.


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## pblanch (Oct 26, 2011)

Very Comprehensive, Thank you.

I also love my ZL and have a H51 (AA) and the pre order SC600 (18650) so without the pre step. I would also like to be able to run a 123 (and AA non rechargable) batteries down to nothing as they are expensive - but I believe there is a risk in that as I am led to believe (maybe when put in series). Hopefully the SC80 may have had that looked at.

As for the UI, I have gotten used to it so is not a problem. Its good to here some constructive criticism as ZL I believe listen to it.


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## robostudent5000 (Oct 26, 2011)

carrot said:


> "You should use the AA version" -- No. I always use my Eneloops in mated pairs



i guess this means that you have nimh chargers that only charge in pairs?


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## carrot (Oct 26, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> i guess this means that you have nimh chargers that only charge in pairs?


Yes. I still have not bothered to get a charger with individual charging bays because my Sanyo charger has treated me well this far. Plus, everything I own uses AA batteries in pairs: GPS, Wii, Xbox, keyboard, mouse...


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## robostudent5000 (Oct 26, 2011)

carrot said:


> Yes. I still have not bothered to get a charger with individual charging bays because my Sanyo charger has treated me well this far. Plus, everything I own uses AA batteries in pairs: GPS, Wii, Xbox, keyboard, mouse...



considering how many 3xAAA headlamps you have, i think you'd benefit from a 4 channel charger and some AAA Eneloops (Costco 12 for $20). i can tell you from experience that it will actually change the way you use your headlamps for the better. the biggest change for me is that i use my headlamps around the house and yard a lot more than i used to. the second biggest change is that i start every outing with freshly charged batteries and i can do it guilt free. no more fussing about with half used alkalines and fretting because they still had juice left. no more of that baby! i'm always at full charge!

regarding the Zebra's, i've gotten the impression that the H51 doesn't have the same sudden cutoff problem that the H31 has. i think i've read that the H51 steps down from hi to medium and dims a little before it dies. H51 owners, please correct me if i'm wrong. 

if true, it would be consistent with every AA v. CR123 light that i've owned. all my regulated AA lights begin to dim noticeably and give me some warning before they cut off. and even after it cuts off, if i just let it sit for a few seconds, i can turn it back on for a minute or at least long enough for me to find the backup light and spare batteries in my pack. 

all the CR123 lights i've owned just cutoff without notice and stay dead. it happened to me enough times with my old Princeton Tec Apex Pro that i swore off using any CR123 based headlamps and flashlights. i think it's a problem that's almost inherent to the chemistry.


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## gcbryan (Oct 26, 2011)

Given the way you have defined your requirements I'm surprised you bought the Zebralight. It's a single battery headlamp and that seems to be an issue for you.

I have a few solutions (for myself). I have two Zebralights (H51 and H51f). They are light weight and easy to carry. One at a minimum serves as a spare battery carrier. If one dies I have another right in my pocket ready to go (REI nylon pants with cargo pockets). When I just carry one I always have a spare battery in my pocket or somewhere easier to get to than in the bottom of my pack.

Mine has some warning but the main warning is that you can't use it on high. If you aren't using it on high at all (or using that as a battery check) it could sneak up on you.

It's so much smaller to wear on my head than a traditional 3 AAA headlamp that it's worth it to me although I have a Storm as well. I have a two battery charger for NIMH as well but I don't see that as a problem. I use one AA in the headlamp and one as the backup battery and charge them both at the same time.

The H51f generally lets me see far enough ahead but when it doesn't the Storm doesn't either. I have a small aspheric thrower I carry just for spotting. I don't see a big advantage to tint either at a distance as long as the LED in question isn't excessively blue or green in the first place. If it is (and most of mine aren't) I fix it with a filter.

Getting to medium on my Zebralight is easier than getting to medium on my Storm and is more or less the same as on my EOS. EOS requires 2 clicks to get to medium. So does the Zebralight. Or if your fingers are cold just press until medium comes up.

I'm not saying that Zebralight should be "right" for you. I'm just commenting on how I deal with some of those same issues. To me changing the batteries can be easily done with my eyes closed. I'd much rather change batteries in the Zebralight than in any of my other headlamps (EOS and Storm). It's a real pain in the Storm to find 4 AAA batteries and orient them correctly and only a little easier in the EOS. Certainly it's harder to open either the Storm or EOS to put the batteries in.

The beam angle adjustment is also much better (IMO) as there is no leverage action going on as with the hinge system. The head strap is also much lighter (since the light is lighter and smaller) which also makes it much easier to carry a spare headlamp in your pocket.

From my limited experience with CR123's it does seem that they die more suddenly than other types but that may just be my experience.


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## simples (Oct 26, 2011)

carrot said:


> I caved not too long ago and bought a Zebralight on the recommendations of others here.



Sadly, that wasn't great advice. Zebralights are excellent little flashlights. I have one and it's ideal for my back pocket and stumbling home from the bar, but it's no more a proper hard caving lamp than a Fenix HP, Myo XP, PT Apex, Spark, etc. Don't get me wrong, they are OK for flashlight cavers, giving to the children, or even proper expedition stuff where you might spend more time looking for caves than actually in them; but if used for caving should be considered mostly sacrificial. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not caving hard enough or frequently enough :duh2: 

2 or 3 purpose built caving lamps exist, but due to the obviously limited market, these are hand built (outside of China) with high quality part and in low volumes. Consequently they cost a fair amount. They also generally have machined aluminium bodies and 2 LEDs, one for distance and one with no focussing to light up your immediate surroundings.

The last mass market headlamp built largely for caving was the Petzl Duo. It's still a really good durable lamp, but is now far from up to date in light output / LEDs. However a number of good LED upgrades exist. The Petzl Pixa is a new work light for harsh environments, that could prove to be cave robust, but lacks output and the ergonomics / battery arrangement (on main body of lamp rather than back of helmet) are probably going to rule it out.


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## simples (Oct 26, 2011)

duplicate


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## simples (Oct 26, 2011)

Got the 'caved in' bit btw. Just couldn't resist


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## Anonnn (Oct 26, 2011)

Thanks for your good thoughts.



carrot said:


> At this point, my Zebralight H31Fw had been running on medium (M1/37lm) for a couple of hours and seemed to have no sign of stopping, still putting out ample light...A few moments later...I click on my H31Fw. Nothing happens. I click it again. More nothing. And again. Nothing.



I hear your point on this and even agree with you to an extent, yet I struggle to place this attribute wholly in the "problem" or "defect" category. Let me explain. Zebralight has achieved an output stability that no other manufacturer has yet been able to match. In other words, Zebralight has figured out a way to make their lights that contain almost dead batteries just as bright as they were when those batteries were fresh. There's no warning for you by way of a dim light, but we cannot overlook that this is because of a fantastic technological breakthrough. While partially inconvenient for your application, to only look at one side of the figurative coin and fault a company for what we would otherwise praise them for is somewhat unbalanced (although understandable) from my perspective. I think you were otherwise fair in what you said. I can still see this trait as a partially negative one for a headlamp to possess; I would just like to mention it in conjunction with its positive counterpart -- steady output -- and to acknowledge that the people at Zebralight have placed this extra burden on themselves by achieving such excellent regulatory functionality in their lights. Perhaps Zebralight was overzealous in releasing this technology, but in the process of evolving and improving in which Zebralight currently finds itself, hopefully the people there will account for this drawback in the future with a battery meter or by some other means.


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## Anonnn (Oct 26, 2011)

simples said:


> Got the 'caved in' bit btw. Just couldn't resist



Nice.


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## Dsoto87 (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't understand why you bought this light having high hopes when all your qualms with it are readily known before purchase. 

Did you really buy a single cell cr123 light expecting huge output AND extreme runtime... at the same time? 

I really can't comment on not being able to double press to get to medium in extremely cold weather but what type of mode switching do you prefer? 

I guess it would be nice to have some type of attachment for the tailcap but it's really not THAT hard to change a single cell light while holding the tailcap. 

I'm not saying you must like the ZL, but I don't understand why you purchased it when all your problems with it are clearly advertised (or not ie: low voltage cutoff).


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## degarb (Oct 26, 2011)

The OP echo's my reservations with zebra: runtime, instant shutoff, barely enough lux to do job, price. Still, the group seems to have a religious fervor for them due to the state of art leds they include, when they only fill one niche of the headlamp spectrum.

That still doesn't kill my curiosity about some possible use of this seemingly useless for factor of the zebralight. I really would like about 250 throwy lumens on head for 8 to 10 hours without too much weight, battery changes (customer and worker concerns)....Hp11 + some 150 lumen/watt 3watt hour 1 aa or 14500.

In short, why not just get the xeno e03 instead of zebra? Just glue some velcro on it and my hp11 band, or buy the elastic velco strap (for rolled towels or head) band that is premade and available in fabric department of all Wallmart. (competitor are thrunite and fenix) I wasted hours on reviews and videos on the e03, but my gut told me it would be a waste of 40 bucks since I probably needed at least 100 lumen for 3 hours, which these inefficient drivers cannot do even with 150 lumen per watt emitters and 3.5 watt hour batteries. Finally, I found a good video review, where it showed the e03 really sucked with the xml and only 1aa. With an 14500 it at least gets 2 hours at 120 lumens. But then you need about 4 cells, plus a few extra, and two or more chargers, pushing up cost around 80.

I think if I waste my money on a tiny, inefficient, weak thrower, short runtime light, just mostly for a test and kicks, I will go with the fandyfire, at half price or less. _*[link removed - DM51]*__*
*_


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## Zenbaas (Oct 26, 2011)

degarb said:


> The OP echo's my reservations with zebra: runtime, instant shutoff, barely enough lux to do job, price. Still, the group seems to have a religious fervor for them due to the state of art leds they include, when they only fill one niche of the headlamp spectrum.
> 
> That still doesn't kill my curiosity about some possible use of this seemingly useless for factor of the zebralight. I really would like about 250 throwy lumens on head for 8 to 10 hours without too much weight, battery changes (customer and worker concerns)....Hp11 + some 150 lumen/watt 3watt hour 1 aa or 14500.
> 
> ...



As other have said, getting a single CR123 light and then moaning about runtime shortfalls while still expecting good lumen output probably isn't the smartest thing to do  Why not then just get something like the newly released H600 (18650) which will have loads more runtime and excellent brightness as well..?

Now as for your suggestion on the E03. Runtimes are loads better on an aa battery than on a 14500. Even on the lowest output it will only last for 2 1/2 hours which looks almost exactly the same as the medium mode on an eneloop which will run for roughly 4 hours. Point is, it's a good light but doesn't perform on 14500's for anything other than the "wow" factor. Also the ZL's have great runtimes from what I've seen. You just need to make sure that the one you pick will suit the purpose and not the other way around.


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## B0wz3r (Oct 26, 2011)

Carrot,

other posts have already addressed most of the things you've said. What strikes me is that you don't see an advantage to the neutral emitter outdoors. I think I know why.

Normally, a neutral tint adds to depth perception, but wearing a headlamp can cancel that out. The closer the light to your line of sight, the fewer shadows you will see, creating more tunnel vision. You get much less monocular depth information as a result. Stereoscopic depth information isn't affected as much, but it actually plays much less of a role in our depth perception that most people realize. The effect of improved depth perception is increased as you move the light farther away from your line of sight, because the increase in the tangent between your eyes and the angle of the light creates more shadow information for depth perception.


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## Illum (Oct 26, 2011)

well, in the field expediting hikes that could take more than one day, one can't hope that wherever he ends up in will have access to charge batteries, Li-ions are quite an investment and it is potentially damaging to leave a li-ion in depleted mode for several days before charging. They are intended to replace the daily usage of lithium primaries in regions where the grid is easily accessible, not so much for outdoor/rough use unless you are intent on carrying a portable charger [unnecessary weight]. 

Usually if I'll be outdoors for more than just a day event, I usually will have more than one light clipped on my belt that could be turned into a headlight. A pair of ITP H01s for example. Once you get over the unreliability issues they are actually pretty handy, as a belt light on low. Compliments nicely to my Zebra H05, also kept on low. I always assume there will be a need to replace batteries in the field. I found a large plastic bag to come in very handy, as it seems to work well when I tried to change the batteries of several lights while sitting in the shower stall with the water on. 

Carrot, what about your SF Saint, you didn't bring that?


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## gcbryan (Oct 26, 2011)

Just giving you a hard time Carrot but I think the title of your original post should have been "I knew I wouldn't like it and I didn't" 

I will agree that I would prefer that it fall out of regulation when there is still some battery power left but not like the Storm which falls out of regulation after the FIRST 25% is used up.

The case can be made for no regulation of course but if you are going to have it then it should be in effect until closer to the end than that (IMO).


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## ryguy24000 (Oct 26, 2011)

Sounds like you need a back up light or a multi battery runner or both. No offense Carrot, but This doesn't sound like a flashlight problem more like a preparation problem. I mean what did you expect from one single cell light? I understand your frustrations with your "top three" issues form a ZL, but did you do a "TRIAL RUN" first before you ventured off trail?! I mean come on! we don't need another top news story of a missing hiker lost or dead because of a simple gear issue that could have been avoided if the hiker was familiar with the gear they were using. Your purposely putting yourself in a potential bad situation and your not familiar with your gear. HUH
I know from my back country experiences that I try and "not" rely on one piece of equipment. For example next week I'll go with My stepfather on a week long Elk hunting trip. Yeah yeah just a couple of redneck hicks right. We'll set up camp at 6000 feet here in the rugged Wenaha/Walla Walla river drainage. Believe me when hiking in this area of the country at this time of year you go prepared. I won't go without taking at least two methods of making a fire....and i know they work because I tried them already!


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## Vesper (Oct 26, 2011)

Some good hands-on observations and some great counter-points too.

I find I use my Zebralight exclusively around camp, and my Princeton Tec on the trails. Each absolutely have their strengths and weaknesses (like all lights).


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## robostudent5000 (Oct 26, 2011)

degarb said:


> The OP echo's my reservations with zebra: runtime, instant shutoff, barely enough lux to do job, price. Still, the group seems to have a religious fervor for them due to the state of art leds they include, when they only fill one niche of the headlamp spectrum.
> 
> That still doesn't kill my curiosity about some possible use of this seemingly useless for factor of the zebralight. I really would like about 250 throwy lumens on head for 8 to 10 hours without too much weight, battery changes (customer and worker concerns)....Hp11 + some 150 lumen/watt 3watt hour 1 aa or 14500.
> 
> ...



this entire post kind of threw me for a loop. i don't think anyone who knows what they're doing gets a current Zebra headlamp expecting big throw or long runtimes at high output as they just weren't made for that. if that's what you want, you're barking up the wrong tree. 

in one of the Fenix HP11 threads someone kept saying that he thought the HP11 was useless because it didn't meet his needs and he couldn't imagine why anyone would get it over a Zebra. that kind of "my point of view is the only one that matters" type of thinking is crap and i called him on it, and saying that Zebras are useless because they don't meet your particular needs is equally crappy. 

it's like two car guys, one with a Porsche 911 one with a Range Rover, telling each other that the other is stupid for not wanting/needing what the other guy has. how stupid is that!? the two cars were built to do two totally different things!


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## carrot (Oct 26, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> considering how many 3xAAA headlamps you have, i think you'd benefit from a 4 channel charger and some AAA Eneloops (Costco 12 for $20). i can tell you from experience that it will actually change the way you use your headlamps for the better. the biggest change for me is that i use my headlamps around the house and yard a lot more than i used to. the second biggest change is that i start every outing with freshly charged batteries and i can do it guilt free. no more fussing about with half used alkalines and fretting because they still had juice left. no more of that baby! i'm always at full charge!
> 
> 
> regarding the Zebra's, i've gotten the impression that the H51 doesn't have the same sudden cutoff problem that the H31 has. i think i've read that the H51 steps down from hi to medium and dims a little before it dies. H51 owners, please correct me if i'm wrong.
> ...




You make a good point. I don't use AA's except in pairs but I do use a lot of AAA's. I should look into a 4-channel charger on that basis alone! On the other hand, I have been slowly planning some adventures where I will need to resupply either by mail or in brick & mortar and rechargeables will probably not be convenient in those situations. So an important part of my testing is to see how they last with regular use with regular batteries.


As for CR123's vs. AA's, I do know that plenty of my lights (which are almost exclusively CR123) do give some sort of warning, or will at least fire up in the lowest mode long after high is gone.




gcbryan said:


> Given the way you have defined your requirements I'm surprised you bought the Zebralight. It's a single battery headlamp and that seems to be an issue for you.
> 
> 
> I have a few solutions (for myself). I have two Zebralights (H51 and H51f). They are light weight and easy to carry. One at a minimum serves as a spare battery carrier. If one dies I have another right in my pocket ready to go (REI nylon pants with cargo pockets). When I just carry one I always have a spare battery in my pocket or somewhere easier to get to than in the bottom of my pack.
> ...




I have no problems with the concept of a single-cell headlamp, but in practice, long runtimes seem to be a challenge. I was hoping to lighten my load by reducing the necessary number of spares.


The New York Reload is a great option for mission critical items. I do this fairly regularly with lighting tools. 


With regards to the H51, are there any low battery signs before the voltage cut-off point if you do not change the output levels?


For me, I find the H31Fw is out-thrown by pretty much every other headlamp I own, from the Saint to the lowly Tikka 2. Especially when you consider its lumen rating. Perhaps it is simply perception, since the H31Fw fills your entire field of view with light (which is very nice for many tasks) and others have much dimmer spill than their hotspots.


Medium is no more difficult to reach on the Zebralight than on any other headlamp, but the difference is as a hiker or any kind of adventurer where you need light for some length of time you'd be a fool to simply turn on the Zebralight and leave it on high. With the PT EOS, which has probably the least runtime of the 3xAAA traditional headlamps thanks to its strong regulation, you'll still have 3.5 hours to 50% output and a long tail diminishing output afterwards. Thus, it is *always* crucial to turn the Zebralight onto medium, but not necessarily so on most other headlamps. 


My biggest qualm with the low runtime of high mode is not that it is so low, but that *the first mode a headlamp starts on should provide plenty of runtime, always*. If medium and high were swapped in the UI (single click for medium, double click for high), there would be significantly less downside to the runtime on high.


Agreed on the replacing batteries with 3xAAA/4xAAA vs. a single cell. However, I am replacing the cells in the other headlamps far less frequently and using them for much longer times. Replacing cells of the 3xAAA headlamps often happens in the comfort of my own home -- eg: this headlamp has gotten too dim, so I'll swap out batteries now, vs. the Zebralight having to be swapped in the field -- eg: this headlamp won't light, I'd better feel around in my pack for batteries.




Anonnn said:


> Thanks for your good thoughts.
> 
> 
> I hear your point on this and even agree with you to an extent, yet I struggle to place this attribute wholly in the "problem" or "defect" category. Let me explain. Zebralight has achieved an output stability that no other manufacturer has yet been able to match. In other words, Zebralight has figured out a way to make their lights that contain almost dead batteries just as bright as they were when those batteries were fresh. There's no warning for you by way of a dim light, but we cannot overlook that this is because of a fantastic technological breakthrough. While partially inconvenient for your application, to only look at one side of the figurative coin and fault a company for what we would otherwise praise them for is somewhat unbalanced (although understandable) from my perspective. I think you were otherwise fair in what you said. I can still see this trait as a partially negative one for a headlamp to possess; I would just like to mention it in conjunction with its positive counterpart -- steady output -- and to acknowledge that the people at Zebralight have placed this extra burden on themselves by achieving such excellent regulatory functionality in their lights. Perhaps Zebralight was overzealous in releasing this technology, but in the process of evolving and improving in which Zebralight currently finds itself, hopefully the people there will account for this drawback in the future with a battery meter or by some other means.


It's cool that Zebralight has this sweet, totally unmatchable space-age regulation technology. Am I getting this right?


But while I am always excited for new technology, I am more excited for products that apply that technology, not for the sake of technology itself, but for the end-result.


I don't want to start a smartphones holy war in the thread, but I feel like this is the same case with Android vs. iPhone. Android crams in all these neat little features, mostly for the sake of adding cool features, and iPhone only adds features once they've been fully developed to improve the end result. There's a market for both, but I am firmly in the iPhone camp.


Likewise, it is super cool that Zebralight is trying to advance the state of electronics in our illumination tools, but honestly having fully regulated output for hours is not a checkbox that sells headlamps for me. Nor is efficiency, or what LED it uses, or how it looks. You may disagree, and it is your right, and is exactly why so many companies can thrive and fill niches. But what defining features of headlamps I do find important to consider are: user interface, runtime, beam shape, ergonomics/comfort, and reliability, in no particular order.


*What is it about having constant output that is so important in a headlamp?*


In a flashlight, I think I understand it pretty well: you buy a flashlight at a particular lumens rating because that amount of lumens will serve you exactly the amount of light you need to complete a particular task. You want to know that the flashlight will turn on at that output, every time, until you are ready to replace the batteries. That makes sense: Flashlights are typically not used for long periods of time, are not always used in total darkness, and are sometimes used to supplement other light sources.


In a headlamp, however, I'd argue the use cases are different. Most of the times you are using a headlamp, you do not care if it is less bright than it was yesterday, because you are out in some quality darkness and _your eyes will easily adapt to make up for the difference_. Since your eyes are so good at accommodating varying levels of light and still providing excellent vision, any amount of light is better than no light at all.


The only time when I'd say constant output in a headlamp is truly necessary is if you plan to use a headlamp in places you'd normally just use a flashlight (daily use and carry) or perhaps if you are going in a group with a bunch of others who have regulated output lights. Since there will be times when you are seeing their light, your eyes will never adjust properly to the darkness and if your light is substantially dimmer than theirs, yours will be mostly rendered useless. Thus, the Cold War race to higher or more constant lumens begins.




Dsoto87 said:


> I don't understand why you bought this light having high hopes when all your qualms with it are readily known before purchase.
> 
> 
> Did you really buy a single cell cr123 light expecting huge output AND extreme runtime... at the same time?
> ...




As above, the biggest problem is not that runtime on high is so low, it's that high is the first mode accessed. I was well aware of the low runtimes, but assumed that there wasn't a surprise low voltage cut-off, which truly compounds the problem of low runtime and poor UI defaults.


As for the tailcap, accidents happen more than you'd think. As I already stated, alone it is not an issue but when added up to the other problems (surprise darkness), it can really make for an inconvenient night out.




B0wz3r said:


> Carrot,
> 
> 
> other posts have already addressed most of the things you've said. What strikes me is that you don't see an advantage to the neutral emitter outdoors. I think I know why.
> ...




For some reason I dismissed your depth perception comment with headlamps vs. flashlights in another thread as being overly pedantic but your explanation seems to quite well account for why the HDS Hi-CRI seemed streets ahead for depth perception than the neutral white of the Zebralight. I enjoy the convenience of a headlamp far too much to do it any other way, however, and I still don't think neutral white gives as much of an advantage as so many make it out to be.




Illum said:


> Carrot, what about your SF Saint, you didn't bring that?


Saint has proven itself. I'm trying new things.




ryguy24000 said:


> Sounds like you need a back up light or a multi battery runner or both. No offense Carrot, but This doesn't sound like a flashlight problem more like a preparation problem. I mean what did you expect from one single cell light? I understand your frustrations with your "top three" issues form a ZL, but did you do a "TRIAL RUN" first before you ventured off trail?! [...]




This was the trial run.


I had plenty of other illumination with me:
- fully charged Petzl Tikka XP2 CORE
- Black Diamond Spot 
- Petzl Tikka 2 (loaned to my hiking partner)
- HDS EDC Hi-CRI
- Surefire L1


Plus the usual EDC:
- McLuxIII Ti PD-S mizer
- Ti Sapphire
- Arc AAA CS


And a few spare batteries:
- 2 fresh CR123s
- 2 partially depleted CR123s
- 2 charged AA Eneloops
- 3 fresh AAA alkalines


Since I knew lighting would be mission critical, as it were, I went a little overboard.

In the backcountry I like not to rely on any one piece of equipment too, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Most people will not bother carrying a second rain jacket, a second pack, or a second stove, for example. "You could build a fire!" and not need a second jacket or a second stove, but of course you could also build a fire and not need a headlamp either. That said, I trust electronics in the backcountry far less than mechanical things.




Vesper said:


> Some good hands-on observations and some great counter-points too.
> 
> 
> I find I use my Zebralight exclusively around camp, and my Princeton Tec on the trails. Each absolutely have their strengths and weaknesses (like all lights).




No doubt I will enjoy the Zebralight for use around camp. I already truly enjoy using it around the home. But practicality dictates that if I carry two headlamps on the trail, both will be suitable for all uses, and that I shouldn't carry the second simply because I think the first won't be up to snuff. Two is one and one is none, after all.


I hope this addresses most of what has been said. I spent a lot more time than I thought I would on this topic.


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## gcbryan (Oct 26, 2011)

Hey, it's an interesting topic! 

To answer your question about the H51f. No it doesn't give a lot of warning if you don't use high at all. I use high from time to time as a battery indicator rather than for its actual use. I also find carrying two Zebralights to be almost as convenient (and more useful) than carrying one Zebralight and one spare battery.

I don't consider that the initial mode for the Zebralight is high. It's either high or low depending on how you press the button. I always (usually) turn it on initially in low mode. I think a lot of this is just getting used to a particular light. Now it's no harder for me to turn it on in low than it is to turn on in high.

I don't wait until my light dies to change the batteries however. If I think it's getting low I'll check to see if I can put it on high. If I can't I change the batteries.

Regarding a long trip and not using rechargeables...I can see the logic in part but rechargeables aren't much more expensive than primaries (unless you are going to be throwing them away on the trail). You don't have to recharge them on the trail. Why not just take rechargeables in the same quantity as you would take primaries and use them the same way?


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## carrot (Oct 26, 2011)

gcbryan said:


> I don't consider that the initial mode for the Zebralight is high. It's either high or low depending on how you press the button. I always (usually) turn it on initially in low mode. I think a lot of this is just getting used to a particular light. Now it's no harder for me to turn it on in low than it is to turn on in high.
> 
> I don't wait until my light dies to change the batteries however. If I think it's getting low I'll check to see if I can put it on high. If I can't I change the batteries.
> 
> Regarding a long trip and not using rechargeables...I can see the logic in part but rechargeables aren't much more expensive than primaries (unless you are going to be throwing them away on the trail). You don't have to recharge them on the trail. Why not just take rechargeables in the same quantity as you would take primaries and use them the same way?



You are skirting around the problem: high is still the fastest and simplest to access: nothing different from clicking a mouse or a button anywhere. Hence it is the default mode; a default mode with incredibly low runtime is a dangerous feature to have when you rely on your light. 

I can't tell you how many times I couldn't be bothered to think about my headlamps and just turned them on, rather than fiddling around to find the right "setting". I'd say more than 90% of my usage of headlamps is on whatever mode comes on when I click it once. 

The one exception to that, of course, is the Surefire Saint, where you spin the volume knob until the light is as loud as you like... err, as bright as you like. Here due to its extreme ease of use I found myself adjusting it up and down as needed at whim, though again it quite tempting to just crank it up to max and leave it like that.

But here's the issue: I thought I had plenty of runtime on the H31Fw and was not worried about running out of battery life. Then I was surprised later. It is easy to lose track of how much runtime you've used, especially over multiple days or while you are busy doing things.

Recharging batteries takes time plus a charger, which is extra weight and time lost waiting for a charge, vs. carrying only a second set of spares and buying a new set when the previous set is depleted. On a long trip with resupply points it makes sense to minimize the weight: you can throw away used batteries at the same place you purchase new ones!

Obviously some trips can sustain rechargeables quite nicely, but it's not practical for all, which is why I like the ability to use primaries.


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## ryguy24000 (Oct 26, 2011)

This is an interesting thread! Carrot, have you considered a Spark ST series? If for any reason the UI. Program it and your done. If you want to change modes it ramps from low to high. It will warn you about battery life by de ramping or not ramping up, but if you are in low look out because it will shut down. 
Donno what to tell you about the battery situation? If your in the sticks for any extended period your gonna need extra batteries no matter what! I did see a cool solar portable power supply at the last outdoor show I was at, but that is again MORE gear.


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## robostudent5000 (Oct 26, 2011)

carrot said:


> I have been slowly planning some adventures where I will need to resupply either by mail or in brick & mortar and rechargeables will probably not be convenient in those situations. So an important part of my testing is to see how they last with regular use with regular batteries.



AT thru hike?



carrot said:


> With the PT EOS, which has probably the least runtime of the 3xAAA traditional headlamps thanks to its strong regulation, you'll still have 3.5 hours to 50% output and a long tail diminishing output afterwards. Thus, it is *always* crucial to turn the Zebralight onto medium, but not necessarily so on most other headlamps.



i'm surprised by your Eos runtime. the best i ever got from an Eos was 2.8 hours on Eneloops, less than 2 on alkalines. maybe you got a good unit.

about the Zebra UI, i thought each of the levels had a sub level with mode memory, and that a single click could be configured to H2? am i wrong about this?


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## gcbryan (Oct 26, 2011)

Carrot, I forgot to mention that when I need a little more throw I have that in the H51 with tape over the lens. It throws more than the H51f in that configuration and about the same as the Storm or EOS. It's not a lot of throw but it's more like the other headlamps.

Robo, the memory is only once you are in a mode. You can't configure one click to take you to anything other than hi (short click) or lo (long click).

If you go to medium for example you have M1 and M2. Memory will "remember" which of the two medium settings to go to first. One short click will take you to high but memory will determine if that is H2 and then H1 or the reverse.


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## carrot (Oct 26, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> AT thru hike?
> 
> i'm surprised by your Eos runtime. the best i ever got from an Eos was 2.8 hours on Eneloops, less than 2 on alkalines. maybe you got a good unit.
> 
> about the Zebra UI, i thought each of the levels had a sub level with mode memory, and that a single click could be configured to H2? am i wrong about this?


I am after the triple crown. 2100 isn't ambitious enough.

EOS runtime taken from FlashlightReviews.com
I'm not patient enough to sit with one of these and a timer, nor do I have the testing/logging capabilities.

You can select between H1 and H2. 
You can choose between 0.9 hours of runtime or 2 hours of runtime.


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## robostudent5000 (Oct 26, 2011)

carrot said:


> I am after the triple crown. 2100 isn't ambitious enough.



back to back to back?



carrot said:


> EOS runtime taken from FlashlightReviews.com
> I'm not patient enough to sit with one of these and a timer, nor do I have the testing/logging capabilities.



yeah, the newer Rebel Eos's that i had definitely never ran over 3 hours on high, even on Eneloops.



gcbryan said:


> Robo, the memory is only once you are in a mode. You can't configure one click to take you to anything other than hi (short click) or lo (long click).
> 
> If you go to medium for example you have M1 and M2. Memory will "remember" which of the two medium settings to go to first. One short click will take you to high but memory will determine if that is H2 and then H1 or the reverse.



thanks. got it.


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## carrot (Oct 26, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> back to back to back?



Unlikely. But hopefully close enough to it.


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## Woods Walker (Oct 27, 2011)

I find changing 3XAAA much harder than 1XAA in the dark but understand the fear of a lost tail cap.


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## gcbryan (Oct 27, 2011)

Woods Walker said:


> I find changing 3XAAA much harder than 1XAA in the dark but understand the fear of a lost tail cap.



My approach would be to use two headlamps that each use 1 AA. If you can go all night with a 3 AAA headlamp and only change batteries in your tent then you can do the same thing with 2 AA headlamps and the fear of losing the tail cap goes away...oh no! I've lost the tail cap...oh there it is ...on my pillow 

I'm laughing but it sounds like Carrot is a lot more hardcore in the outdoors than I am these days. I just am having a hard time seeing the battery changing with a Zebralight being anything but a plus as compared to most anything else. I would take my gloves off however if there was any chance of dropping and losing the tail cap.


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## DIΩDΣ (Oct 27, 2011)

I think it was the first week I had my ZL I changed the battery while still jogging, one handed on my head, in pitch black. And it took all of 10 seconds... I'd have to say its one of the easiest headlamps to change batteries, just keep a spare in a close pocket you can easily access when you plan on actually using it. Now I admit it was not in cold weather with numb fingers but most any light would be harder in such conditions. And I have yet to see any tube-bodied flashlight/headlamp to have a tethered tail cap, except for maybe a lanyard ring.

I think (my personal opinion) the UI is great and regardless what you consider the default mode it is quick an easy to access the three main modes, even with numb fingers. If run time is at all important you cant be so lazy as to not bother to simply click the thing again... or probably easier even with cold fingers to hold the button down once and release upon proper mode... simple, and no excuse on that one.

I agree that no low battery indication on a regulated light could be a bad situation, but refer back to my first statement. It would be nice to have some kind of indication though. I usually use high every now and then or check w/ high so this hasnt been a problem for me yet, or medium for that matter. 

I dont think there is a perfect light out there that would handle every situation perfectly. If your mainly using it for a specific purpose I'd try to look for something that meets those demands best though. As a fellow hiker I understand this, and you have to have something that works FOR YOU regardless what others say, so hope you find a solution. I hope Zebras also continue to improve, and maybe some of the shortcomingsyou have run into might be better addressed.


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## varuscelli (Oct 27, 2011)

Woods Walker said:


> I find changing 3XAAA much harder than 1XAA in the dark but understand the fear of a lost tail cap.



If losing track of a tailcap is a real concern to anyone, it's easy enough to rig up a simple tether, much like some people use on cameras to tether a lens cap to a lens (small tethers called "lens cap keepers"). In fact, a lens cap keeper for a camera lens cap could be used for a ZebraLight tail cap. It could be used as it is with one end attached to the tail cap and the other looped around the headband or slightly modified by snipping off the large loop end that normally goes around the lens and tying (or otherwise attaching) it onto the silicon holder or the lamp itself, depending on how the specific user wanted to attach the tail cap. Strong thread (there are lots of different kinds of exceptionally strong thread) or fishing line could be used just as effectively.


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## Illum (Oct 27, 2011)

Woods Walker said:


> ...the fear of a lost tail cap.



I know of no flashlights on the market that has a twist off tailcap with a separate cord attachment or a hinged tailcap that is as robust as it is economical. This leads me to the conclusion that losing tailcaps might be something that will remain a constant hazard as long as the user believes he/she is competent to replace cells in the field.

I'm with varuscelli, but cap keepers are not designed for something that requires multiple revolutions to remove. that might be a concern 

Petzl makes wonderful 3AAA headlamps by the way... but alkalines have a tendency to ruin them, seemingly for the fun of it


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## BirdofPrey (Oct 27, 2011)

I work midnights, I "live" at night. Furthermore, my home sits in a rural area with no neighbors and no outdoors light or other ambient light sources short of full moon or turning on the porch light. I regularly hike at night as well as other various outdoor activity work or play related.

I have found zero issues with the zebralights I own other than when the original H60w switch went bad (and ZL replaced it with only the cost of shipping, for free well outside of warranty). I'm not trying to knock the OP's points of view but I can't see where any of his points are valid in any case for me. 

Battery changes are easy, suddenly losing light is not an issue with me as I always carry redundantly. 

I've tried to put myself into my usual situations and attempted to come up with a time where I could validate any of these issues. I can't.

I still state that ZL is the BEST headlamp I've ever used for all around use and it still gets more long term use than probably all my other lights combined.


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## insanefred (Oct 28, 2011)

I am finding tint is a personal preference thing, neutral is far better for me. As for better depth perception and color rendering, neutrals are a 70 - 75 CRI? While cools are 60 - 65 CRI, so it's not huge but it does help. Since emitters are plenty bright right now, I will go with the better color. 
Run times are mostly dictated by power source and circuit. Something that uses a single 123, with higher output, isn't going to run for a long time. Even you should know that carrot. :shakehead Especially if you need it to run for a loooong time.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Oct 28, 2011)

carrot said:


> ...._there are no low battery indicators_, and _if the battery is low enough the light won't even turn on_, even if it was working minutes before!



Hey Carrot, I read this thread yesterday, and found it really interesting because I have been considering buying an H31 so I could pair it up with one of my single CR123 lights for camping trips & runs. I have a Zebralight H51 and a H51w already, and use the H51 most every morning on my runs before daylight (I prefer the cool white over the neutral white when running for better contrast...that's a whole nother topic though.) After reading your description of how the H31 behaves when the battery gets low, I will not be buying one until this gets fixed by ZL. 

My H51 and H51w are both well regulated, AND step down as the battery gets depleted. I have experienced this with these lights many times, and it's one of the features I love about em as I do not like it when a light just shuts off.....but I always have a second light with me - usually a quark 123x2 Turbo X for good throw on my runs.) 

I was going to write about this yesterday, but decided to run a test this morning. My H51 quit running on H1 (max output) at the end of my run yesterday, and luckily I didn't put the eneloop on the charger. I decided that this morning I would let the light step down through the outputs & time it just to inform those who care about such things. Anyway, the H51 performed just as I have experienced in the past. 

When I clicked it on first thing this morning it did achieve H1 for just about 3 minutes then stepped down to H2 on its own (when I double clicked it in high there was no difference between H1 & H2.) Almost 5 minutes later it stepped down to medium (M1.) 5 minutes later it stepped down to M2, and 3 minutes later it stepped down to Low (L1.) It ran on L1 for 2 hours and 22 minutes before stepping down to L2. After another hour in L2 I just turned the light off ending the test. 

The light stepped down in an orderly fashion, never once leaving me in the dark. Also, throughout this test I turned the light off & then on again to make sure the start up voltage was low enough to get the light going again. Every single time it came on, even when clicking it on high. Instead of coming on in high, it'd come on in whatever level it could support i.e. H2 or M1 or M2 or L1 or L2 towards the end. 

*EDIT: 10/28/11 - The description below has a mistake. I was thinking that the OP's H31 had just turned off on him, but it did not. He turned it off. The problem came when he tried to turn the light back on (the voltage was too low for the light to turn back on.) Looks like the difference between the H31 and H51 is that the H51 does not have the problem of turning back on even when voltage is ultra low. *

This step down feature that's in the H51 should be incorporated into the H31 as well; in fact, all of their lights should IMO. Zebralight recently incorporated it into the SC600 for good reason, and luckily is the one I got. I also have a ZL SC30, and this light just quits working without warning like the H31....not good. Something I noticed on it though is after it shuts off, if I took the battery out for a few seconds & then reinserted it back in then the light would now come on in low or medium but not high....so that's a little better...wonder if the H31 would do that....worth a look.

For me, if I were hiking as you were then the H31 would not be the light I'd pick. I think the H51 would be a good option, but only with spare batteries. Also, the H51 (not frosted) has good enough throw that the medium output lights the way well enough, so I don't HAVE to use high1 or high2 all the time. I do prefer high2 the most though, and can get over 2 hours on this setting. For a long hiking trip I'd prolly rather have the new H600 that's about to come out. It'll run *7 hrs at 170 lumens* which is insane and plenty of light for running or hiking....cain't wait to get one of these & pair it up with my SC600 on trips. Maybe the H600 would be better suited for long hikes since a single AA or single CR123 just don't last that long at the higher levels.

Thanks for reporting your experience, and thanks for saving me the $64 that I would have spent on a H31.


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## carrot (Oct 28, 2011)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> [...]
> My H51 and H51w are both well regulated, AND step down as the battery gets depleted. I have experienced this with these lights many times, and it's one of the features I love about em as I do not like it when a light just shuts off.....but I always have a second light with me - usually a quark 123x2 Turbo X for good throw on my runs.)
> 
> I was going to write about this yesterday, but decided to run a test this morning. My H51 quit running on H1 (max output) at the end of my run yesterday, and luckily I didn't put the eneloop on the charger. I decided that this morning I would let the light step down through the outputs & time it just to inform those who care about such things. Anyway, the H51 performed just as I have experienced in the past.
> ...



Sounds like what I'm looking for is closer in the H51. I'll have to think about that one. I really appreciate your testing, definitely gives me better reason to investigate the H51 as my next headlamp. Right now my needs will simply have to be served by the ten other headlamps I own.

Glad I was able to save you money. That H600 does sound cool, but I'm not sure if an 18650 headlamp is a direction I want to pursue. Very tempting though, just to have a 420 lumens headlamp.

In other news, my climbing gym is having a headlamp night! I can't wait to show off :3


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## selas (Oct 28, 2011)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> I do not like it when a light just shuts off... I also have a ZL SC30, and this light just quits working without warning like the H31....not good.



I don't think that's what the OP claims happened; nor is it the case, in my experience. I have the H31c and it behaves as your H51 does, dimming to the next available level when the cell gets low.



Outdoorsman5 said:


> Something I noticed on it though is after it shuts off, if I took the battery out for a few seconds & then reinserted it back in then the light would now come on in low or medium but not high....so that's a little better...wonder if the H31 would do that...



It would, I'm sure. Once the load's taken off the cell for a while the voltage will bounce back. As an experiment I put a depleted cell in the H31c and it fired up no problem, on medium. After a couple of minutes it dropped to low, and after turning it off, sure enough it wouldn't turn on again. The cell's voltage read 2.13 but after resting for 5 mins or so it had climbed back to 2.35, enough to restart the light, on low. I left it running for an hour by which time the voltage had dropped to 1.9. It took over an hour of resting but eventually it bounced back as before.



carrot said:


> The silicone holder feels weird on my head. I don't like to wear the Zebralight without a hat under it.



I think subwoofer's ingenious rethreading of the headband is the answer to this problem.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Oct 28, 2011)

selas said:


> I don't think that's what the OP claims happened; nor is it the case, in my experience. I have the H31c and it behaves as your H51 does, dimming to the next available level when the cell gets low.



Ahh, you're right. His didn't just turn off; he turned it off....forgot that part. Still, it stinks that the light wouldn't turn back on though; where as, the H51 turned on every time in my experiment. Even when only the lowest low would work it still came on and without resting the battery.

I just edited my post above (post 37) so as not to cause confusion.


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## carrot (Oct 28, 2011)

Damn it Outdoorsman5, I was perfectly happy not knowing there's a 420 lumens Zebralight that runs off 18650s. I just did a quick dig through my flashlights bag and I found two 18650s that I have no idea what to run them in. Seriously considering the H600... I do like rechargeable headlamps (such as my Tikka XP2 CORE) for short (day, overnight) trips...

And the H2 setting for 7 hours sounds just about right, along with the step down feature.


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## robostudent5000 (Oct 28, 2011)

carrot said:


> Damn it Outdoorsman5, I was perfectly happy not knowing there's a 420 lumens Zebralight that runs off 18650s. I just did a quick dig through my flashlights bag and I found two 18650s that I have no idea what to run them in. Seriously considering the H600... I do like rechargeable headlamps (such as my Tikka XP2 CORE) for short (day, overnight) trips...
> 
> And the H2 setting for 7 hours sounds just about right, along with the step down feature.



be sure to check cell size compatibility before you go buy a H600. some past Zebra 18650 lights didn't accommodate larger 18650 cells.


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## Zenbaas (Oct 29, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> be sure to check cell size compatibility before you go buy a H600. some past Zebra 18650 lights didn't accommodate larger 18650 cells.



True, although the newest SC600 version apparently has a slightly larger battery holder than the original. I would assume that probably now counts for the H600 as well although we will only know once people start getting these lights.


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## Blue72 (Oct 31, 2011)

Carrot makes a very good point in this thread.

Changing batteries may seem like a very easy task. But the last thing you want to do while performing a task especially when you are in the "zone" to get it done, is to stop to change out your batteries. I think thats why many of the major headlamp manufacturers design the runtime of their headlamps this way. They know most people wearing a headlamp are likely to be doing a task at hand.


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## NoFair (Oct 31, 2011)

Imho the flood ZLs are camp and indoor use only. My H31W is way more suited outdoors. 

I still use a little monkey running on 18650s for night hiking and skiing  

The H31W is a great spare/camp HL though. Have it in my work bag and use it a lot.


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## Anonnn (Oct 31, 2011)

carrot said:


> It's cool that Zebralight has this sweet, totally unmatchable space-age regulation technology. Am I getting this right?
> 
> 
> But while I am always excited for new technology, I am more excited for products that apply that technology, not for the sake of technology itself, but for the end-result.
> ...



Thanks for the elaboration. Philosophically, we are in the same camp.


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## B0wz3r (Nov 1, 2011)

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that changing batteries is an issue. If I'm in a situation where I know I might drop/lose my light, I always put it on a wrist lanyard. With lights that have their attachment on the tail-cap, it's sort of a no-brainer; the tailcap stays on your wrist via the lanyard while you hold the light in one hand and fish out another battery and do the change with the other. 

If I were using something with 3xAAA, yeah, I can see how that'd be problematic, and that's why I prefer single cell lights. But still, even in that situation, I don't see why having to do that in the dark would be an issue either. Even when I'm doing an activity where I rely more on a headlamp, I still always have a regular light clipped in a pocket or on my keychain. I always have at least one non-headlamp light on me at all times; typically two, with a pocket EDC and one on my keychain as a light duty EDC or back-up to my pocket light.

In the case of my Zebras, I recognize the cap doesn't have that ability and plan accordingly. If I'm not in a situation where I can put the cap down somewhere safely, I just shove it in a pocket, or slip into a glove so it rides in the palm of my hand while I swap out the cell. Admittedly, there are going to be situations where something like that is problematic, but in general I don't see why it's such a big deal. It's part of the things you have to consider when you're doing active stuff outdoors, and plan for accordingly.


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## jankj (Nov 1, 2011)

carrot said:


> You are skirting around the problem: high is still the fastest and simplest to access: nothing different from clicking a mouse or a button anywhere. Hence it is the default mode; a default mode with incredibly low runtime is a dangerous feature to have when you rely on your light.
> 
> I can't tell you how many times I couldn't be bothered to think about my headlamps and just turned them on, rather than fiddling around to find the right "setting". I'd say more than 90% of my usage of headlamps is on whatever mode comes on when I click it once.



Thanks a lot for that particular piece of real use experience  
I've been somewhat reluctant to the new user interface of the Zebralights. It seems popular, but anything that violates the _always low on first-_principle seems plain... wrong. My absolute favorite close range headlamp is the venerable H50bw. *Always low on first.* That being said, h50bw isn't really a hiking headlamp. I still hike with it, but only where I don't need to illuminate anything else than where I'm stepping. If I have to look further I use a handheld or a different headlamp. _Hiking uncomplicated or familiar trails with H50bw is great, however - just the occational flash with my handheld to check things out in a distance  _

As to the main reason for your post, I've done exactly your oposite: I've standarized on AA eneloops and stayed away from CR123. Benefits include longer run time, but the maximum brightness is of course sacrificed, and both the light and the batteries will be heavier. Pick your compromise, I'll stick with AA eneloop (and 18650). 

As a general rule I don't like primaries because the somewhat mysterious "somewhat" depleted state means I'm either scrapping perfectly useable batteries or running out of juice at the worst spot. With freshly charged batteries I have a pretty good intuitive feeling of how much use that is left. With "somewhat" depleted battery my intuition is pretty much useless.


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## chadvone (Nov 2, 2011)

I understands OP's issues with H1 on. My solution to ZEBRALIGHT. Make H1 50 lumish. Make H2 200(max for model) or 100lum or strobe. Then the Hi wasting. Myself encluded could program H2 for strobe, so we would always know what Hi we were on. Maybe get 5ish hours on H1 ???? Just gessing.

I have 4 H51's And it has always been a concern that H1 is always there just a double click away. 
The H50 gets more use just because of the on in low.


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## eh4 (Nov 2, 2011)

The UI makes sense though, if you need dimmer light you can wait the extra fraction of a second for low, if you're really in a hurry then you just might need the bright light... unless the batteries can't handle it.
I'm going for the AA headlamp, hopefully it will not be such an issue for the Zebra 51 models.


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## InTheDark (Nov 2, 2011)

I agree and disagree with some of the points brought up. I pretty much had very similar complaints about most of the lights. I haven't done hardcore long distance hiking in a while, but now that my priorities have shifted (i.e. family), for the last couple of years all of my hiking trips have been exclusively at night.


1) Regarding default settings - I always want my lights to start out on HIGH, unless I want to start out on low. The fact is, everybody is different, so really there is no perfect default setting, because a light can't read your mind. The worst setting in my opinion is to start out on medium, because 99% of the time I either want high or low. I absolutely hate having to scroll through any modes to get to the one I want. If I want low, I don't want to ruin my night vision by starting out higher. If I want high, I usually want it right away and not have to wait for low > medium > high or any other flashing settings. The UI is probably the primary reason I haven't tried most of the newer headlamps and lights on the market, because I knew I would hate it. I usually avoided this problem by having two lights. One dedicated for low (usually my headlamp) and one for high (a second headlamp attached to a shoulder strap or flashlight) Usually if i needed high it was only for very short periods of time so using a second light wasn't an issue.

2) Low battery warnings - One question I gotta ask, is how are you gonna see it if it's on your head? I'd also like a battery indicator but realistically on a headlamp unless you're taking it off a lot it probably won't be that useful. If it's visible while you're wearing it then you always have some light shining in your eyes. The only headlamp I had that used a battery indicator was the old Nuwai headlamps. A neat feature when checking the battery status at the beginning of a hike, but that was about it. Since i always carried backup batteries and lights, the feature was more of a novelty. If going on a long hike (overnight or multi-day) where I absolutely wanted to start out with a full charge, I'd swap out the batteries with new ones and swap the old ones back in to use them up when it's not so critical.

3) Startup voltage - I completely agree with you there. A light should not leave you in the dark, period. Ideally, I'd prefer my lights to run at full regulation at maximum power until the batteries can't handle it, then drop down to a low level at full regulation for as long as possible, then as a last resort constantly dimming light until the batteries are completely dead. I know there are issues with damaging some batteries, but I'd want to be the one deciding when to turn off the light and not have the light decide for me . 

4) Tether - The only light I've used that had a tethered tailcap was the cheap Ray-o-Vac 3 in 1 headlamp. I hated it. The theory is good, the reality isn't. What should be an easy to manage couple of turns becomes a frustrating 4X as many quarter turns because of the tether. I thought about epoxing a tiny magnet on the tailcap and a matching one on the body, but then it never bothered me that much to actually implement the idea. 

I've just recently bought the Spark ST6-500, and while it's not perfect it's probably the closest thing to my idea of a perfect headlamp on the market today. One of the reasons I like it is because the memory setting, it will remember the last setting you left it on. Normally I always leave it on low, but when I need high it's just a double click away and I can get to the brightest setting at any time without scrolling. I can also get to the lowest setting at anytime by unscrewing the cap slightly to reset the UI back to the lowest setting (if for some reason it's been changed). Like i said, it's not perfect, but close. So I actually have a choice on what level I want to start on. And while I can notice a difference between color tints during use, it's never been that big of an issue where I would choose one over the other.


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## NoFair (Nov 2, 2011)

Just looked at my H31W and drained a crappy cr123 with it to test: Mine turns on again even when the battery is barely able to sustain low. (did have to wait a bit the last time, but then low was flickering)

Regarding it starting out on high: It only does this if you click it on, when you press and hold to turn it on it starts on low and slowly goes to mid then high.

Would choose it any day over a 3 AAA head lamp


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## Kletsou (Nov 2, 2011)

Very interesting summery and this just show how different the usages of the lights are. Not just environments but also peoples approach to the use of the lights.

If I look at the progress from carrying a battery pack on the belt and then the first Coleman and Streamlight headlights, I am really happy with what is available these days.









My first “decent” headlight was the Petzl Tikka, later the Tikka Plus and now the XP2. I added the H51 and what I love is the “moonlight” sub 1 lumen mode. On hikes this is wonderful “through the night all night” light in a tent or even open area. 

The Petzl served and still serves me well but the option of the H51 with one AA and not 3AAA’s really works well for me. I look forward to being brave enough to carry an 18650 on my head and after testing this in various formats I must admit I am getting more comfortable with that thought.....





For me the user interface works well on the H51 and the fact that “one” press of the switch cycles through the modes helps! You can go directly to “low” or any mode is required. Just get to know the functions. The other option that I like with the H51 is the clip which I leave on – even when in the headband. Easy to take off and clip anywhere else where you need the light.





So I’ve found the H51 to be great for me for all night use in the bush. Wanted to try the H31 for the CR123 option and then found out that the H52 and H600 are on its way.
Different applications... I am just really pleased that we have all these options available!


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## subwoofer (Nov 2, 2011)

carrot said:


> I caved not too long ago and bought a Zebralight on the recommendations of others here.



Did I miss it, or did you not mention the batteries you were using? Choice of battery would be a crucial element with this light.

The H31 would never be my choice for reliability when you most need not to be plunged into darkness. Anything running on li-ion would be risky or expensive to run on primaries.

I much prefer AA powered lights as their power delivery is much more predictable and you get more of a tailing off of the power and gradually diminishing output. You can also abuse them without much worry draining them to almost short circuit voltage levels.

As for changing batteries, a single cell is very simple and quick, and if you have a spare headlight in your pocket you don't have to do this in the dark. If you always have a spare light, hand-held or headlight easily to hand you can then pick your spot to change the battery and do this somewhere that if you did drop the cap you could find it easily.


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## chadvone (Nov 2, 2011)

1)I always want my lights 2 start on HI or LOW. And with the Zebralights I can have this. It has memory so what ever High I use last will be there. My issue is the H1 is alway there. I often find myself doubleclicking between the 2 Highs just to see which one I am on. The other options for H2 are to close to to H1 to notice without. My 50 lumish solution for H1 above would cover us that want a longer running High.

2)Low battery warning solution. Simple have the light do a 2-3 second stepdown pulse like the LF5XT(missing this light everyday), there would still be light, and it would be noticable on your head. Change battery or keep going and light stepsdown on its own (H51's already do this).

3)Start up voltage. I don't want a light that wont turn on!!! H51's again will always start, i have one now that doen't have either High and the higher Medium but it still starts. This was an issue I had with the Quark AA tactical. If you were on the lower of programed modes you would have to wait for battery recovery before it would fire back up.

4)Tether on tailcap. A low battery warning see #2 would allow you time to find a good spot to break for a change.

Ok, maybe that was a little off topic. The variety of lights and light usage is broad. Many lights out do other in some area or another, I am looking for a jack of all trades light. The Zebralights is closes thing to perfict (for me) at this time. LF5XT's UI was it but lacked runtime.


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## B0wz3r (Nov 2, 2011)

subwoofer said:


> I much prefer AA powered lights as their power delivery is much more predictable and you get more of a tailing off of the power and gradually diminishing output. You can also abuse them without much worry draining them to almost short circuit voltage levels.



Exactly. As nice as Eneloops are, I tend to use L91's in my headlamps almost exclusively. One reason is the weight difference, with the L91's being so much lighter than an Eneloop. While it's not a difference you can really feel that much on your head, I find it makes a difference in terms of how much the light will move around during activity. The lighter weight of the L91's means less mass in the light, therefore less inertia, and less movement as a result. L91's also have a higher energy density, so they give you more run time, and while I haven't personally tested this, I think they give even more run time on the lower settings because the lithium primary chemistry is very good at sustaining low outputs for longer periods of time IIRC.


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## varuscelli (Nov 5, 2011)

selas said:


> I think subwoofer's ingenious rethreading of the headband is the answer to this problem.



Although the "feel" of the silicon holder against my forehead has never bothered me, this seems a very good solution for making that a non-issue. Nice link (I hadn't seen this idea before).


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