# Dereelight DBS review!



## WadeF (Oct 12, 2007)

Today I stopped by the post office to inquire if they had a package for me. The postman checked around and didn't see anything, so I left. I was in my car when he ran out with a package, he found it! 

Inside the shipping box I found a familiar Dereelight black box, which has a neat flip top lid that magnets shut. Inside the DBS, an optional OP reflector, and spare parts (o-rings, tail-stand rubber tail cap, and even a spare switch). I also had received a spare 3-stage module for my CL1H.

Here is the box:




Here is a picture of everything but the spare module:




Ther first thing I did was pop in a fully charge AW protected 18650 and fire it up. Nice tight and very bright hot spot! I grabbed my Sekonic 408 meter and took an EV reading at 1 meter, at ISO 100, 13.4! I was hoping for an EV over 13, as Sekonic's chart shows 13 as being 20,480 LUX! 13.5 EV would be 28,900 LUX, so the DBS was in the 27,000 neighborhood, just as Dereelight claimed! I will do further readings when I receive a LUX meter from DX, hope it's fairly accurate.  

Here's Sekonic's chart for reference: http://www.sekonic.com/support/support_2.asp

Now I was anxious for night fall so I could try this outside! I drove out to the state park, to the big lake, where it's about as dark as I can find around my area. I haven't been able to verify the distance too well since Google Earth doesn't have a very clear shot of the lake. However, I think I found where I was and the distance is around 600 feet. I took an exposure at ISO 100, daylight white balance, 10 seconds, and f2.8. The beam and spot are a bit brighter than they were to the eye. Unfortunately I don't have another thrower, like an MRV, Tiablo, etc, to compare, but I did compare to my Dereelight CL1H.

DBS 3-stage Q4 on MAX, click any of the photos for a high res version:




Dereelight CL1H v2.0 same 3-stage Q4 module on MAX:




I plan on trying to get more real world beam shots later. Now, some white wall beam shots for the white wall hunters.  All shots at 1 meter, ISO 100, 1/20th, f2.8, daylight WB, unless specified otherwise.

DBS 3-Stage SMO MAX:




DBS 3-Stage SMO MEDIUM:




DBS 3-Stage SMO LOW:




Smooth reflector has plenty of rings, but a killer hot spot that really throws! Next I put in the orange peel reflector, and I was impressed!

DBS 3-Stage OP MAX:






DBS 3-Stage OP MEDIUM:




DBS 3-Stage OP LOW:




Okay, now for some pictures of the light itself, individual parts, etc! 

The DBS:




DBS compared to CL1H v2.0:




OP installed:




















Here is the DBS dissasembled. Notice how there are double o-ring seals one each connecting part. The o-rings are more substantial than those found on the CL1H v2.0, but I hear the CL1H v3.0 will have more substantial o-rings as well. There is a single o-ring where the reflector meets the front glass lens.






Close up of bezel with reflector and module installed. All 3 pieces come apart:




Other half of the head that the reflector drops into and the bezel screws onto:




Inside of bezel, a single o-ring is between the glass and the front lip of the bezel. The o-ring is a bit smaller than the recessed area it should lay in and I had some problems when it came out when I was changing reflectors. I found a trick though, just lay it in the best you can, put the glass over it carefully, then screw the reflector in until there is slight pressure from the glass pressing against the o-ring. You then run a finger nail, or whatever, around and push the o-ring into the recess, increasing pressure on the glass by screwing the reflector in more if needed, and it quickly falls into place and you can proceed to tighten down the reflector to press the glass firmly against the o-ring. It's a nice thick piece of glass, I need to try to get a better shot of just the glass lens sometime, the shots I took were blurry and I didn't notice at the time I was taking them:




Side view of bezel:




Why not, blurry shot of the glass, you can kinda get the idea:




The battery tube / body tube, notice double o-rings on each end, nice thick threads:




Inside of tailcap, haven't cleaned anything yet:




Rear view of tailcap showing GITD tail switch cover. There is also a lower profile black tail switch cover that will allow the DBS to tail stand:




Side view of tailcap:




Spare parts, o-rings, low profile tail switch cover, and spare tail switch:




Here is a close up shot, a bit over exposed, of the 3-Stage Q4 module:




The 3-stage module offers HIGH, MEDIUM, and LOW. It was designed to offer very flat regulation. Unlike other lights I have, this module goes in order HIGH, MEDIUM, LOW, HIGH, MEDIUM, LOW, etc. Rather than LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH. The DBS, like the CL1H, has a forward clicky, so you can have momentary on, or fully press to lock on. To select modes you push forward and release in under 1 second and when you get the mode you want you either hold for 1 second, or lock it on. The module will remember the last mode you used and return to it when you turn the flashlight back on. I like this set up, and it's nice having a true forward clicky switch, like a Maglite. 

Here is a rear view of the module:




The great thing about the DBS, and the CL1H, is these modules are interchangable. Dereelight offers a 2-stage Q2, a 5-stage Q2, and the new 3-stage Q4 modules. If using a 2-stage HIGH/LOW module in the DBS it works just like the CL1H by twisting the body and head to switch from LOW to HIGH. So if you want a tactical style set up you can lock the light on HIGH and use the forward clicky to signal since it acts like a momentary on if you don't press all the way and lock it on with a click. The 5-stage Q2 has LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH, STROBE, and SOS. 

The 3-stage offers the most output with the Q4. 

Here is a shot of the OP and SMO reflectors:




Shot of the SMO reflector:




Shot of the OP reflector:




DBS with SMO installed:




























My overall impression of the light so far is excellent. Like I said I wish I had a Tiablo A9S Q5 WC to compare it too, but it sounds like from the LUX readings it should out throw the Tiablo! Dereelight has another great light for anyone who wants more throw. 

For ordering information you can check out http://www.dereelight.com

Or their topic on CPF Marketplace:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=169676

There is a run time graph of the 3-stage module there. 

Alan from Dereelight is great to deal with and I have ordered directly from him twice now. I believe Lighthound.com also carries Dereelight products if you are looking for a US based dealer. 

I can't wait to use this light more out doors. It's a BLAST.  I'm also impressed at the size since it isn't a whole lot larger than the CL1H. Easy to carry in larger pocket, and I even just put it in my left front jeans pocket with easy. I can feel it in there, but it isn't bad. It also comes with a lanyard. 

If anyone has any questions or wants me to provide more details about whatever, just let me know. Hope everyone enjoyed the pictures, I'm going to go pass out now.


----------



## olight001 (Oct 12, 2007)

very nice pictures and beam, great job.


----------



## robo21 (Oct 13, 2007)

Wade, this is a very well done review and nice pics. Nice job! Thank you. I wish you had a Tiablo A9 to test as well.


----------



## orbital (Oct 13, 2007)

+

Fantastic Wade!!
The pills look of great quality *****
How do you like the reflector screwing in compared to the CL1H drop-in?
Does the switch stick out like the CL1H, I have zero interest in tailstanding anything, and is it me or is the tailcap slightly darker ~ looks kinda custom.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 13, 2007)

robo21 said:


> Wade, this is a very well done review and nice pics. Nice job! Thank you. I wish you had a Tiablo A9 to test as well.


 
Hope on a plane with your Tiablo and come over for a duel.  Hehe. Anyone near Perkasie, PA (Bucks County) that has a Tiablo A9 Q5 WC? 

It's after midnight, but I went out to take a beam shot in my back yard. I live in town, so there is light pollution everywhere.  From my back yard the farthest target (that isn't someone's home) is a tree on the other side of a building that is 300 feet from where I was:


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 13, 2007)

Nice review, Wade! 

As expected, you didn't let us down when it came to those sweet, sweet pics!


----------



## WadeF (Oct 13, 2007)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Fantastic Wade!!
> The pills look of great quality *****
> ...


 
Thanks orbital.  The pills are great quality! I like the reflector screwing in, everything is solidly held in place, and it probably helps with heat transfer. 

You know, I didn't notice it until you said it, but it looks like the tail cap is slightly darker than the rest of the light. It depends on how the light hits it. Maybe a different HA batch? Not a big deal for me. 

The GITD tailcap protrudes every so slightly, not as much as the CL1H. The area around the tail switch appear to be a little more open on the DBS. Maybe Alan can offer a rubber tail cap, or something, that allows it to stick out farther for those who want something like that. The GITD sticks out just enough to prevent tail standing. 

I should also mention there is a slight audible noise, like a ringing (sorta like an electric camera flash charging) when the 3-stage is on MEDIUM and LOW, but I have to have the flashlight about a foot or closer to my ear to hear it.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 13, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> Nice review, Wade!
> 
> As expected, you didn't let us down when it came to those sweet, sweet pics!


 
Thanks Monocrom, I try.  So when are you ordering one?  You might find the CL1H more useful as a duty light, since it has a nice clip, and is a bit smaller. The CL1H with the new 3-Stage Q4 module and a smooth reflector is a pretty potent thrower for it's size.


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 13, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Thanks Monocrom, I try.  So when are you ordering one?  You might find the CL1H more useful as a duty light, since it has a nice clip, and is a bit smaller. The CL1H with the new 3-Stage Q4 module and a smooth reflector is a pretty potent thrower for it's size.


 
Must admit that the CL1H model would likely be a better fit for me than the DBS. Most likely going to get it before the Holidays roll around.


----------



## orbital (Oct 13, 2007)

+

Would you rate this as a Super Thrower? 
Meaning,...is the throw in the holy $hit category

Again, thanks for a super review!!


----------



## WadeF (Oct 13, 2007)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Would you rate this as a Super Thrower?
> Meaning,...is the throw in the holy $hit category
> ...


 
Compared to the other LED lights I have, yes, it's a super thrower.  I think for a CREE LED with a reflector it is about as good as it gets right now. 

The nice thing with the Dereelight is if they offer a pill with a better emitter, say R-bin CREE's next year, etc, you just buy the pill $20-30 usually, and you have an upgraded light.


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 13, 2007)

AWESOME REVIEW!! Thanks Wade!:twothumbs

Any idea how much more throw you would get out of the SMO over the OP? The slight ring on the SMO beam shot you wouldn't notice in real life, correct?

Anuyone know if the DBS would out throw a large D or C cell maglite?

Thanks again for the great review!

Regards,


----------



## WadeF (Oct 13, 2007)

Dogshund said:


> AWESOME REVIEW!! Thanks Wade!:twothumbs
> 
> Any idea how much more throw you would get out of the SMO over the OP? The slight ring on the SMO beam shot you wouldn't notice in real life, correct?
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Dogshund. I'm sure the SMO will out throw the OP, but I haven't tested by how much. I will try to get more LUX readings soon.

I have a 6D Maglite with a Xenon bulb, so I could do a comparision.


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 13, 2007)

Beauty! That would be great thanks!! :thumbsup:

Would like to convince and convert a few LEO mates of mine into this addictive Flashlight world!  
Cant see why they would wanna lug a huge maglite around all day when they can get better performance and runtimes with a quality led, that weighs half the amount and half the size!

Regards,


----------



## orbital (Oct 13, 2007)

+

DBS arrived today  , +1 everything Wade said!! 
The construction is fantastic and you must see this reflector, it looks more like a NASA amplification chamber....

Test tonight


----------



## Seth (Oct 13, 2007)

Impressive... Most impressive!

Now, *that´s* what I call a *deep* reflector! :thumbsup:

Judged from your pics, build quality seems to be also top-notch... Look alone at this LE-pill :bow:

Seth


----------



## WadeF (Oct 13, 2007)

Was playing around in photoshop, not perfect, but:









Saw some deer in a field, well, didn't see them until I turned on the DBS.  There are almost always deer in this field, you can click to view a larger resolution file, and zoom in. It was a longer exposure so the deer blured a bit as it moved around, there was only one in the beam, looks like two.


----------



## robo21 (Oct 13, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Hope on a plane with your Tiablo and come over for a duel.  Hehe. Anyone near Perkasie, PA (Bucks County) that has a Tiablo A9 Q5 WC?
> 
> It's after midnight, but I went out to take a beam shot in my back yard. I live in town, so there is light pollution everywhere.  From my back yard the farthest target (that isn't someone's home) is a tree on the other side of a building that is 300 feet from where I was:


 
 Ok, I'll hop on a plane Wade. Damn, I forgot, we'll have to wait for my smooth reflector to arrive though. The DBS looks awesome!


----------



## Lobo (Oct 13, 2007)

Wow, thanks for a great review and great pics! Wouldnt surprise me if Dereelight themselfs wanted to use them.

And damn you for wanting me having this light! 
I knew I shouldnt check in on cpf again...

Oh, and if that isn't a deer in the headlightpic, then I dont know what. 
Awesome!


----------



## WadeF (Oct 13, 2007)

It's a great light, and Alan from Dereelight is great to deal with. He obviously has a passion for making great lights. The nice thing is they are always trying to develope better modules as they get their hands on better LED's. So you can keep upgrading your light for a fraction of the cost of a new one.


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 13, 2007)

Sorry if this was already covered, and I just missed it.... But what type of tailcap switch does the DBS use. I don't think I've ever seen a GITD tailcap switch that wasn't a reverse-clickie. Is that what it is? What about the optional tailcap switch? 

Also, I'm noticing a lot of similarities between Dereelights and Lumapower lights.


----------



## Lobo (Oct 13, 2007)

"The DBS, like the CL1H, has a forward clicky, so you can have momentary on, or fully press to lock on. To select modes you push forward and release in under 1 second and when you get the mode you want you either hold for 1 second, or lock it on. The module will remember the last mode you used and return to it when you turn the flashlight back on. I like this set up, and it's nice having a true forward clicky switch, like a Maglite. "

Hope that helps.


----------



## woodrow (Oct 13, 2007)

Wow! Looks like a incredible light! Thanks for taking the time to post the shots. I may have to put the 6pl on hold to grab one of these.

Thanks again!


----------



## WadeF (Oct 13, 2007)

Some new info! I re-charged my AW 18650's and took meter readings from the DBS and CL1H V2.0 with 3-stage Q4 modules, smooth reflectors.

Meter set to ISO 100, reading taken at exactly 1 meter:

The DBS gave a max reading of 13.6EV!

The CL1H gave me a reading of 12.2EV!

Sekonic's website has a conversion to LUX chart, and they list 13.5 EV to be 28,900 LUX. 13.6 would be a little over that, and would seem to confirm FASTCAR's reading of 30,000LUX! 30,000LUX! 

As for the CL1H, lightreviews.info rated it at 7990 LUX with the 5-stage and smooth reflector. With the new Q4 3-stage module installed, and smooth reflector, the reading was 12.2EV. On Sekonic's chart 12EV is 10,240LUX and 12.5EV is 14,400LUX, so it's probably in the 11,000-12,000LUX range! That's a decent gain for a small light. 

My 6D Maglite with Xenon bulb was giving me 13.7EV! The question is, does the reflector in the DBS out perform the reflector in the Maglite? I'm going to try some test beam shots now, but I may need to find a farther target to know for sure.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 14, 2007)

Okay, here are some beamshots comparing a Maglite 6D with Xenon bulb with fresh Duracell D's, the DBS 3-stage, and CL1H 3-stage, all with smooth reflectors. All exposures the same, ISO 100, f/5.2, 10 seconds.

First up is the 6D, but this is daylight balance so it looks extra warm, the target is the tree behind the building (top middle) which is actually dark with no flashlight on it.  It's about 250-300 feet away. There is a lot of light pollution in the foreground. I want to repeat this test out at the lake sometime. 

6D Mag WB: Daylight




6D Mag WB: Incan




Dereelight DBS 3-Stage Q4 WB: Daylight (I think the DBS takes the 6D!)




Dereelight CL1H 3-stage Q4 WB: Daylight (while it doesn't hold up to the DBS, this little light still throws like crazy for it's size class!)


----------



## WadeF (Oct 14, 2007)

Dogshund said:


> Anuyone know if the DBS would out throw a large D or C cell maglite?


 
Check out the pics. It's close between a 6D and the DBS, but I think the DBS edges it out, at least at 300 feet. I'm thinking the DBS would have more of an advantage at an even longer distance since the MAG has a more scattered beam. Forget 5D's and smaller, the DBS will eat them for breakfast.


----------



## Patriot (Oct 14, 2007)

Do they have any plans for a Q5 model?


----------



## Bushman5 (Oct 14, 2007)

HOLY CRAP...look at all those pics!!!!! a cheers to you WadeF for the time spent in writing this up!! :thumbsup: 

i might just have to get one of these.... :naughty:


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 14, 2007)

:twothumbs THANKS WADE!! :twothumbs

Both your and FASTCAR's reviews have sold me on this light for sure!

Hope the black version is released soon and i'll be buying myself an early Birthday present! 

Thanks for the comparison photos also. Dont worry guys, I will convert more to this flashlight world!!


----------



## Steve L (Oct 14, 2007)

Thanks Wade, Your excellent review(and pictures) pushed me over the edge. I finally ordered the DBS with 3 stage module. I look forward to comparing it with the MRV and A9.


----------



## javafool (Oct 14, 2007)

Hi Wade,

In FASCAR's review he commented that he didn't see the purpose of an OP reflector for this flashlight. I can understand and respect his opinion for a straight, all out throw light, and enjoy reading a variety of reviews in how different people see the same flashlight. In my case I still want a little more compromise so I ordered it with the OP reflector. 

I know it will cut back on the throw some but am hoping it will still be a great thrower with a little larger hotsopt and brighter side-spill, which in my case will make it more useful for my purposes. What is your opinion of the OP for use in the field. I know where my walls are so I don't plan to use this light to find them. I'm asking for your opinion of its real world use with the OP reflector.

Edit: Great review, BTW. I really enjoyed your review and variety of pictures.

Thanks,
javafool


----------



## WadeF (Oct 14, 2007)

java, good idea! I will take some out door beam shots with the OP and SMO as soon as I can (when it gets dark again). The OP looks great on a white wall.  We'll see how well it throws compared to the SMO, and see how much brighter the spill is.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 14, 2007)

Steve L said:


> Thanks Wade, Your excellent review(and pictures) pushed me over the edge. I finally ordered the DBS with 3 stage module. I look forward to comparing it with the MRV and A9.


 
Do you have a Tiablo A9 SE Q5 WC by chance?  Please let us know what you think of the DBS when compared to your other throwers.  

-Wade


----------



## Steve L (Oct 14, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Do you have a Tiablo A9 SE Q5 WC by change?  Please let us know what you think of the DBS when compared to your other throwers.
> 
> -Wade


Hi Wade, Yes I do. I also have 2 MRV's along with this Lux meter from DX: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5100 . The only thing is my meter reads low(but repeatable), ~13000 for the MRV's and ~ 15500 for the A9. My other lights also read low(120P,L2D,P2D Q2,P3D,D-mini,etc...), so I know it's the lux meter. I will definitely let you know my (relative) results and impressions. Thanks again Wade for the review.


----------



## Saiga (Oct 14, 2007)

well, you've piqued my interest !! assuming you used the standard (free) shipping, can you tell me how long it took to arrive? i'm stuck in a boatyard in florida for a short while longer, and might want to have one shipped here, and wouldn't want to miss it !!


----------



## WadeF (Oct 14, 2007)

I went with EMS shipping, so it took about a week (5-7 days). Without the EMS it might be more like 10-15 days.


----------



## FASTCAR (Oct 14, 2007)

Normal shipping here took 5 days to NJ


----------



## Saiga (Oct 14, 2007)

thanks for the speedy replies,guys. another question, do they only take paypal, or will visa work ? i was about sold on the tiablo, but i think i like this better, and it's $30 bucks less !!


----------



## WadeF (Oct 14, 2007)

I used PayPal, but you may be able to use your Visa to send him money via Paypal using the Paypal site.


----------



## Nitro (Oct 14, 2007)

Nice review Wade! :thumbsup:

Given the size of the reflector, it's not surprising the throw on this thing. I may just have to add it to my collection.


----------



## ergotelis (Oct 14, 2007)

DBS will be on its way via EMS by tomorrow i hope, Tiablo A8 q5 is here and waiting for comparison with screenshots.No lux reader available but at total darkness screenshots side by side is the best way to test...The winner stays here and the looser ships somewhere else in Europe!


----------



## WadeF (Oct 14, 2007)

ergotelis said:


> DBS will be on its way via EMS by tomorrow i hope, Tiablo A8 q5 is here and waiting for comparison with screenshots.No lux reader available but at total darkness screenshots side by side is the best way to test...The winner stays here and the looser ships somewhere else in Europe!


 
Looking forward to the comparision!  You got the 3-stage module with the DBS?


----------



## ergotelis (Oct 14, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Looking forward to the comparision!  You got the 3-stage module with the DBS?



Exactly,i like stable output. I am waiting for Alan to confirm&ship!Lets hope that via Ems i will have it till Friday!
A8 q5 looks so nice, but dbs looks amazing due to your reviews!! :devil:


----------



## robo21 (Oct 14, 2007)

Steve L said:


> Thanks Wade, Your excellent review(and pictures) pushed me over the edge. I finally ordered the DBS with 3 stage module. I look forward to comparing it with the MRV and A9.


 
Great, can't wait to hear your comparisons with your existing lights!


----------



## WadeF (Oct 15, 2007)

Okay, here are some more shots from my backyard. 

DBS 3-Stage SMO reflector:




DBS 3-Stage OP Reflector:
\



The SMO clearly has a smaller and more intense hot spot. I'd like to repeat this test out of the lake where it's dark and I have a farther target, the difference between OP and SMO should be more noticable there. With all the light pollution it's hard to get a good look at the spill. 

Now a couple fun shots. The DBS with SMO reflector blasting into space:




DBS laying on my picnic table:


----------



## javafool (Oct 15, 2007)

Thanks Wade, nice pictures and I really appreciate the effort. I look forward to the lake shots when you get a chance. I think the OP would be better for spotting snakes in the grass at the lake anyway. At least you don't need to watch foer gators 

I am glad I ordered the OP reflector after seeing the shots. I think it will perform more to my needs.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 15, 2007)

It's nice having both reflectors as it makes the flashlight more versitile. The OP really gives it a nice clean beam! Pretty easy to swap out, like the CL1H, but the reflectors screw into the bezel with the DBS.


----------



## orbital (Oct 15, 2007)

+



WadeF said:


>



Hey Wade, you have show the DBS very well, super photos! :thumbsup:

You made a good point about how the reflector screws into the bezel.

If you think about how brilliant it's designed, the entire head is one massive heatsink.
From the pill screwing into the amazing reflector, then the reflector screwing into the bezel.
One massive heatsink ready for any bin down the road, R bin and BEYOND!!

+


----------



## FASTCAR (Oct 15, 2007)

+1


----------



## WadeF (Oct 15, 2007)

orbital said:


> If you think about how brilliant is is designed, the entire head is one massive heatsink.
> From the pill screwing into the amazing reflector, then the reflector screwing into the bezel.
> One massive heatsink ready for any bin down the road, R bin and BEYOND!!
> 
> +


 
Yeah, the reflector should make a great heat sync, and then if it gets too warm it will disapate heat to the large aluminum bezel that it's threaded into.  Also, to add to all of that, the base of the reflector, where the pill is threaded into, makes contact with the base of the head so it can heat sink to the entire light. I may not have a picture of this area of the light, I'll have to take one in a minute. 

Also, future bins shouldn't mean an increase in heat. If anything they should mean more light at the same current, and less heat.  Unless they start driving them harder for even more light, and then end up with about the same amount of heat they generate now.


----------



## taiji (Oct 15, 2007)

another thing that I personally like about this light is that it feels more substantial in the hand than the Tiablo A9 .


----------



## Mrgooch (Oct 15, 2007)

Don't know if I missed it! Do the batteries come with it.If not where do you get them and what kind of charger is needed?


----------



## WadeF (Oct 15, 2007)

Mrgooch said:


> Don't know if I missed it! Do the batteries come with it.If not where do you get them and what kind of charger is needed?


 
Batteries are not included. I use AW's 18650 batteries and the Ultrafire WA-139 (I think that's the model) charger he sells. He just lists it as a charger, for $15. You can purchase directly from him in his for sale topic, he accepts pay pal, he ships out of Hong Kong, but he ships promptly, and his batteries are well respected on CPF:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=166496


----------



## Mrgooch (Oct 15, 2007)

This light won't take AA's ?


----------



## WadeF (Oct 15, 2007)

Mrgooch said:


> This light won't take AA's ?


 
No it will not. This light is designed to work best with 18650 cells.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 15, 2007)

Went back to the lake tonight. This shot appears to be at 900-1,000 feet. The image of this lake on Google Earth is kinda blurry, Mapquest has a much clearer shot and I tried working out the distance with their scale. I get about 900 feet, Google Earth was more around 1,000. The other problem is the shot is so dark I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly where the light is hitting on the satellite pics. I need to swing by the lake during the day to get a better view of the shoreline.

Anyway, DBS 3-stage:




Here's a shot from Mapquest, each segment of the line is 150feet according to Mapquest, I tried to estimate the angle of the beam, where I think I was hitting, etc.


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 16, 2007)

Great photos once again! Thanks for the effort!! Keep em comin! :twothumbs


----------



## WadeF (Oct 16, 2007)

Okay, a few more. Again, not sure of the exact distance, but it's around 600 feet. All shots at ISO 100, f2.8, 10 second exposure which I find looks pretty close to what I was seeing, and my eyes weren't fully adapted to the dark. LED's shot with daylight WB, incans with incan WB.

DBS (Daylight WB):




6D Mag w/ Xenon Bulb, rated at over 200 lumens (Set WB to incan), sorry I didn't get the beam in the exact same spot, but it's close:




Ultrafire WF-500 Incan, rated at 500 lumens (give or take 50-100, WB set to incan):




Malkoff Mag Drop in, SSC U-Bin @1a in 2D Mag with 3 C batteries:




Malkoff M60 CREE Q2 in a Surefire G2, 2xCR123's:





Some observations, the Mag 6D and DBS are very close, but look at how much brighter the spill is with the DBS. Also I think the DBS edges out the 6D Mag, but it's close. I got a slightly higher EV reading on the DBS, 13.8 at 1 meter, and 13.7 with the Mag. 

There will probably be 3-Stage Q5 pills available in the near future and that may give the DBS a bit more of an edge, we'll see.  Pretty amazing to at least match the mighty 6D Mag with a Xenon bulb with a much smaller DBS powered by a single 18650 battery.  Also the Ultrafire WF-500 incan with two 18650's toats the 6D mag, and the WF-500 has an OP reflector!  

The Malkoff in the 2D didn't match the DBS, but it's still a great drop-in for mag. If I could get mine to focus tighter it may have performed better. I'd like to try one of Gene's newer drop-ins in a 4D, or 3Dwith 4 c's. I think his new design is a bit cleaner than the older unit I have an it may focus better, and be a tad brighter running at 1100mA. 

The Malkoff M60 in the G2 is great, but it's limited to about 400 feet from my findings, and the target area is out about 500-600 feet or more possibly. I am going to take a drive out to the park during daylight hours this week and map it out to figure out the distances. The tree line may offer me ranges from 400 to 1,400+ feet, so if I can work that out it will make a great testing site. 

Even out in the state park you can see a slight orange glow in the sky from the nearby towns, actually that orange glow on the left in the distance is my own.


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 16, 2007)

only 1 thing to say, :twothumbs


----------



## WadeF (Oct 16, 2007)

Dogshund said:


> only 1 thing to say, :twothumbs


 
I'm having too much fun, but I think my wife is sick of me dragging everyone out to the lake.  As long as I grab her a donut or some ice cream on the way home it seems to go over okay, and if the kids fall asleep along the way it's a bonus.


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 16, 2007)

With the pictures your posting its convincing the other half that spending that amount on a flashlight is justified!!


----------



## nanotech17 (Oct 16, 2007)

just got MRV last week but my brother snap it out of my hand because he love it at first sight,after reading this review and photos i think no more - now anxiously waiting for my DBS 3 stage.
Good job WadeF


----------



## WadeF (Oct 16, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> just got MRV last week but my brother snap it out of my hand because he love it at first sight,after reading this review and photos i think no more - now anxiously waiting for my DBS 3 stage.
> Good job WadeF


 
Go challenge your brother to a duel when you have your DBS in hand.  




Dogshund said:


> With the pictures your posting its convincing the other half that spending that amount on a flashlight is justified!!


 
I was trying to keep my DBS purchase on the down low, but my wife saw a PayPal email with the total I spent on it. Oops. Good thing my birthday is next month and I used that as an excuse.  Hopefully by the time my birthday comes around she'll have forgotten about it and I can get away with buying another flashlight.


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm with you Wade. Also November birthday (25th). Hope the black version is available by then and maybe even a Q5!! :nana:


----------



## nanotech17 (Oct 16, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Go challenge your brother to a duel when you have your DBS in hand.
> 
> 
> I'm afraid he will snatch that as well


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 16, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I was trying to keep my DBS purchase on the down low, but my wife saw a PayPal email with the total I spent on it. Oops. Good thing my birthday is next month and I used that as an excuse.  Hopefully by the time my birthday comes around she'll have forgotten about it and I can get away with buying another flashlight.


 
Well, that'll teach you to leave your computer up and running. 

One of the hidden advantages of buying from a Brick & Mortar shop.... No confirmation emails for the spouse to accidentally find. No need to keep the recept after walking out the store. No delivery man asking your spouse to sign for your package. 

Then again, it's a long walk from P.A. to Hong Kong.... BTW, sweet pics, Wade.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 16, 2007)

So where's the best place to buy the Dereelight DBS??


----------



## robo21 (Oct 16, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I'm having too much fun, but I think my wife is sick of me dragging everyone out to the lake.  As long as I grab her a donut or some ice cream on the way home it seems to go over okay, and if the kids fall asleep along the way it's a bonus.


 
Excellent, you can have fun and maintain domestic tranquility at the same time. That's a fine line and to be able to balance all that is the mark of an expert flashaholic and all around good person.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 16, 2007)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> So where's the best place to buy the Dereelight DBS??


 
Lighthound maybe carrying it, but I just ordered mine direct. Just go to te manufacture's corner on cpfmarketplace and find the Dereelight DBS topic.


----------



## Patriot (Oct 16, 2007)

Wade, this is one of the best light review threads I've ever seen! Thanks for all of the great pics. I'm going to get one, but I'll probably have wait a short time for a Q5 version.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 17, 2007)

Patriot36 said:


> Wade, this is one of the best light review threads I've ever seen! Thanks for all of the great pics. I'm going to get one, but I'll probably have wait a short time for a Q5 version.


 
Thanks.  I'm sure I'll be adding more to this topic once we cn get our hands on Q5 modules, and beyond.  Also I really want to confirm some distances for the beam shots. It's been hard finding targets far enough away to test this light! :laughing: I figured I need to look for things 800-1000 feet away, and I used Google Earth to figure out an 800-1000 foot radius around my house, and it's just ridiculous how much area that covers, and how many obstacles surround me preventing me from getting a beam out that far. Even driving around some of the farms, a lot of the fields are only 400-500 feet before they end with a tree line. So I'm sure I'll be back at the lake. I plan to stop by tomorrow when the sun is up to map it out and plot out targets so I can confirm distances. 

It would be fun to get some other local flashaholics out there for some night time beaming.  Anyone near Nokamixion State Park in Bucks County PA?


----------



## rolling (Oct 17, 2007)

This 3-mode driver is exactly what i need. Does someone know the diameter? And can you purchase it separately?


----------



## Pöbel (Oct 17, 2007)

it's a P60 module which is available separately for 29$ incl. shipping


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 17, 2007)

Anyone know of a holster or a ring so it can be carried around easily? Closest i've found just by looking at the specs is this:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/c-cell-flashlight-straight-baton-holder.html
or
http://www.uncle-mikes.com/products/light_cases.html


----------



## rolling (Oct 17, 2007)

Pöbel said:


> it's a P60 module which is available separately for 29$ incl. shipping



I just need the driverboard.


----------



## Saiga (Oct 17, 2007)

what are the advantages/disadvantages in the 2,3 or 5 mode models.i prefer the simplicity of fewer modes, but i read some brief mention of better or different regulation with the 3 and 5 mode versions.


----------



## Lobo (Oct 17, 2007)

Saiga said:


> what are the advantages/disadvantages in the 2,3 or 5 mode models.i prefer the simplicity of fewer modes, but i read some brief mention of better or different regulation with the 3 and 5 mode versions.



I'm a bit confused about this too. As far as I understood, the 3stage DBS is the brightest, but is that just because it has a Q4 instead of Q2, or is it cause it has different circuitry also?

Cause I'm looking for a 2-stager, but of course(maybe stupidly) I want it as bright as it can be.

Thanks.


----------



## cat (Oct 17, 2007)

I wish someone would be here and answer my questions quickly so I can order something tonight.    I'm sitting here late every night and getting less and less able to decide what to get.  The problem's not so much money or having more flashlights around than I want, but just being able to _decide. :duh2: _

Lobo and Saiga: 
I have the same question / same decision. 
The Cree Q4 is/maybe slightly brighter (and the guy who had a circuit problem with his noticed it; here: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2073938&postcount=168)

The circuit in the 3 mode model is better; "constant output", I don't really know what that means (I suppose like the digital model Fenix lights), but it's better, and the "memory" means it will switch on in Hi mode (what I want) and then you turn the bezel to get the lower modes ... or does it cycle through the modes with button clicks? On and Off in Hi mode is simple. If I want a lower mode, I can turn the bezel. 

_But_, I would like to be able to use CR123 batteries. At least for backup. I don't know if I'm going to get anything else that uses the 18650. I think - I hope I'm not - going to end up with 4 different types of batteries and 3 chargers. 

I've been wanting /thinking about getting a WE M-300. I need flood, to light up the yard, more than anything (yes/no, I'm not in the wrong thread, this Dereelight is good)  ...and I think they use 18650 batteries, and they come with a charger, but... I'm now wondering if the DBS - with the OP reflector as an option - would not be better overall. I could get the 2 mode version and be able to use it immediately without ordering 18650's and a charger right away, and get the 3 mode pill later if I wanted it. 
So, *Wade*,...(thanks for the _great_ photos, btw),...in the photos across the lake, and the one from your yard, the area like right in front of you - and the pier area - is really lit up in the DBS photos. Is that the spill from the DBS - I _hope_ it is - or is it something else there, some other light?


----------



## Lobo (Oct 17, 2007)

cat said:


> The Cree Q4 is/maybe slightly brighter (and the guy who had a circuit problem with his noticed it; here: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2073938&postcount=168)



That post is updated now.  
He doesnt think it's brighter any more, but it might depend on the defective circuit. I looked at the pictures at Dereelights own website, and if you look at the pics marked Q5, they seem to be significantly brighter, I'm just wondering if it's because of the circuit or the LED... :shrug:




cat said:


> The circuit in the 3 mode model is better; "constant output", I don't really know what that means (I suppose like the digital model Fenix lights), but it's better, and the "memory" means it will switch on in Hi mode (what I want) and then you turn the bezel to get the lower modes ... or does it cycle through the modes with button clicks? On and Off in Hi mode is simple. If I want a lower mode, I can turn the bezel.



I'm quite sure that the 3-mode uses the clicky for modeswitching, and the 2-mode a bezeltwist. 



cat said:


> I've been wanting /thinking about getting a WE M-300. I need flood, to light up the yard, more than anything (yes/no, I'm not in the wrong thread, this Dereelight is good)  ...and I think they use 18650 batteries, and they come with a charger, but... I'm now wondering if the DBS - with the OP reflector as an option.... So, *Wade*,...(thanks for the _great_ photos, btw),...in the photos across the lake, and the one from your yard, the area like right in front of you - and the pier area - is really lit up in the DBS photos. Is that the spill from the DBS - I _hope_ it is - or is it something else there, some other light?



Haha, that's another question I had, thanks for reminding me. How well does it work as a general purpose light? Going by Wades excellent pics, and the pics from Derees own site, it looks like it lights up the closer area A LOT as well.

All in all, lots of questions.


----------



## Saiga (Oct 17, 2007)

thanks guys......still not sure what's what, but i appreciate the effort. what's the deal on cr123 compatibility? i'm leaning toward the 2 stage light....thanks


----------



## cat (Oct 17, 2007)

Lobo said:


> I'm just wondering if it's because of the circuit or the LED... :shrug:


The LED. But I don't really know what constant/whatever means. I think it means constant when there are voltage fluctuations ...I don't know. 



Lobo said:


> I'm quite sure that the 3-mode uses the clicky for modeswitching, and the 2-mode a bezeltwist.


Then I want the 2-mode.  I can use CR123 that I've got, I can probably use AW rechargeables that I want to get, and I can get 18650 later if I want. 



Lobo said:


> Haha, that's another question I had, thanks for reminding me. How well does it work as a general purpose light? Going by Wades excellent pics, and the pics from Derees own site, it looks like it lights up the closer area A LOT as well.
> 
> All in all, lots of questions.


 Always questions.  :duh2: :shakehead The Wolf Eyes M-300 incan ($200 + shipping) has adjustable focus ... the Wolf Eyes Thunder 3xCree ($250 + shipping for recharge version) ...both come with WE 18650 batteries + charger. Both much more $ than the DBS, but this..question about the flood/spill of the DBS. .......I don't want both, really.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 17, 2007)

The location I was taking the pics in were pitch black. Any light you see is from the DBS, and yeah, the spill is pretty bright. 

To clear up the questions about the different modules..

The 2-stage module is the only module that allows you to use the twisting body/head feature to select HI or LO. This allows you to lock in either level an then use the forward clicky to signal, etc, without the worry of changing modes. Also with this module the battery has to have the positive end towards the tailcap. You can also use RCR123's, CR123's, and 18650's.

The 3-stage and 5-stage modules have the battery with the negative end facing the tailcap, and you can only use 18650's. You tap the tail switch quickly (less than 1 second) to change modes, and hold/click for 1 second or more to lock in that mode so it will turn back on in that mode the next time you use the light. 

The 3-stage uses a Q4, the 2 and 5 stage modules use Q2's. The 2 and 5 stage modules aren't designed for the higher VF we see wit the Q4's and Q5's, so he 3-stage has been designed to delivery the voltage needed by the Q4's and Q5's to perform properly. This is important and something people are over looking when they swap a P4 for a Q5 in a light. Many times the driver circuit won't supply enough voltage to the Q5 and it may not put out any more lumens than the P4 because it can't get up to the current the P4 was running at. An electronics expert could explain better.

For example, the 5-stage on high in my CL1H has a LUX rating of around 8,000 at 1 meter. The 3-stage on high inthe CL1H is over 11,000 LUX. 

Also the 3-stage is designed to give you very flat regulation on all 3 modes. This means when you turn the light on, the output stays the same until the batteries are depleted. Rather than starting out at 100%, and then 10 minutes later dropping to 80%, and then 30 minutes later you're down to 50%, etc. 

Fastcar found hid DBS putting out 25,000LUX after runnning for 2 hours, and that's a higher LUX reading than the Tiablo A9 gets on start up from what we've seen. 

I have been seeing LUX readings from 30,000-35,000 in the first few minutes of use with a fully charged 18650. I haven't done run time tests yet, but I wll take more readings when I get my LUX meter, rather than haing to use my light meter and converting EV to LUX. 

Also there were some 3-stage modules with issues, but I hear the problem was found and the current modules are fine. If you experience a problem where your 3-stage module doens't change modes, just contact Alan at Dereelight.


----------



## cat (Oct 17, 2007)

Saiga said:


> what's the deal on cr123 compatibility? i'm leaning toward the 2 stage light....thanks


Get the 2-mode one. Use CR123. If you really think, later, after more of this thread, that the 3-mode circuit + Q4 is better, send $29.  Really, though, it depends what we get explained about the constant circuit. 




> "....but i don't FEEL enlightened."


 
ya, me too. If it means I know more than the first few weeks that I came here, yes, but I don't know if it's good - I'm more confused. If it means I've got lights - that I show in my profile/sig line - no, I haven't got enough. They're nice flashlights,for EDC, but I need some POWER.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 17, 2007)

WadeF said:


>


 
I returned to the lake today, during daylight hours, to figure out where exactly I was hitting with the beam. Turns out I hit where I thought I did. According to Google Earth, the distance is 1,000-1,1000 feet. The shoreline curves alone there, so it at least 1,000 feet, but it could be as much as 1,100. If I go back I'll try to aim a bit further left, as the curve stops and the coast line is straigher, and would be in the 1,300-1,400 foot range. I think in order to see the light hitting the trees the air quality will have to be very good. I may have to find a place away from water as the lake will always have some light fog, water vapor, etc, floating around.


----------



## cat (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks, Wade. [I'm one step behind you on these posts!] 
The explanation's good. The voltage drop thing, I _don't_ want. I end up replacing batteries sooner. And the upside-down battery is odd. The only problem for me with the tap-the-switch system is that if I flash it on and off in less than a second, it's going to switch to a lower mode. The simplicity of the 2-mode system is good. :sigh: 
I'm glad to hear about that spill light. (wow) 
So...what do you think about the DBS compared to the WE Thunder ? Aside from the WE costing a lot more, even though it comes with a charger. I'm too new to this to imagine how the 3-reflector system works. I did see some beamshot photos of the WE Thunder, but they don't help me compare. I'm not sure enough that the incan M-300 would do what I want, which is pretty much why I started looking at modded Maglites. Although I want flood, backyard lighting 12-20-30 yards, DiCEMAN's [good] beamshot photos show a tree and a bench lit up from about 12 yards, and beyond that it looks not enough for me.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 17, 2007)

I haven't tried a WE thunder, but I would think it would be more flood than throw with 3 reflectors, but I don't have much experience with these multi reflector lights.

I think what you'd really like to see is a new 2-stage with a Q5, that handles CR123's, RCR123's, and 18650's. Maybe Dereelight will release an updated 2-stage sometime in the future. 

You are right though, with the 3-stage and 5-stage, if you flash the light on and off quickly you would change modes.


----------



## Lobo (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks WadeF, for clearing that out. 

Gonna keep my fingers crossed now for Dereelight releasing a black 2-stage DBS with the new circuit and Q5...


----------



## cat (Oct 17, 2007)

You could wait months. Like January, February... :shakehead
You could get one of them now and wait for the new pill. (I agree about the black finish, though.)
I need something now, so I've been doing some sums.  Including shipping, sales tax this side, batteries and charger. Never mind the currency, you can compare the numbers.
Dereelight DBS 3-mode 1372 
WE M-90 13V with LF 700 lumens lamp 2764 
FM 700L Mag mod with 3x WA1185 lamp 2035 
Yes, the other two are incandescents. The WE with 3 reflectors costs about 30% more.

 :laughing:


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Oct 18, 2007)

I got to play with a WE Thunder and Storm. They're actually not very floody. They have very good side spill, but definitely a very good hot spot as well. 
SSC multi emitter lights seem to be more floody from my experience.

I ordered a DBS with 3 stage and I'm waiting for the 2 stage pills to get upgraded emitters and drivers. I'll likely buy when the first R bins become available. I also like the ability to use the bezel for selection and possibility of using CR123's or even RCR123's. But That can wait. I have enough lights that can manage CR123s. I bought the DBS for pure throw.

Nice beamshots btw. Thanks of the review.


----------



## cat (Oct 18, 2007)

The WE Storm and Thunder have the simple 2 modes and dual battery types. 
Quote:


> The Wolf Eyes style of reflector (balance of flood and throw) works great with a multi LED configuration.


Without seeing beamshots, I don't know. Although the 3 reflectors appear to be deeper than the small reflectors typical of Fenix and so on, they obviously aren't anything like the DBS reflector that is deep and people that know what they're talking about can see that it's very good for throw. But anyway, I haven't found any beamshots for the Thunder/Storm. 

How does the 1 LED in the Dereelight - which, as far as I know, is basically the same as the ones in small lights like Fenix - provide so much throw, so much more light? Surely it's not just the bigger reflector that does it?


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 18, 2007)

cat said:


> How does the 1 LED in the Dereelight - which, as far as I know, is basically the same as the ones in small lights like Fenix - provide so much throw, so much more light? Surely it's not just the bigger reflector that does it?


 
From a general perspective, a bigger reflector helps a great deal, with regards to throw.

I'm sure Wade will stop by soon with a description of all the other details that help the DBS, "outshine" the competition.


----------



## SaVaGe (Oct 18, 2007)

Wade,

Besides the fact that its a super light, Because of you and your outstanding review, I will buy one:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

thanks again

p.s. i wonder how long till the Q5 arrives...........i know that R bin will be at least a year or two away....


----------



## selfbuilt (Oct 18, 2007)

Hi Wade,

Nice review - great job on the beamshots. :twothumbs

Haven't had time to post much on CPF lately, as I'm travelling a lot these days. I'm planning to update my thrower review thread with DBS 2-stage results, but likely won't have time to log back in until early next week.

To update on my DBS issue, Alan is sending me a replacement 3-stage module. The original one I received is single-mode only, and not as bright as my 2-stage. I suspect the problem is simply a defective circuit, and I appreciate how promptly Alan has been dealing with the issue.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 18, 2007)

The 3-stage is brighter than the 2 and 5 stage modules. Hopefully your new one will outshine your 2-stage selfbuilt.  I'll be looking forward to see how it compares with your other throwers.

Hopefully Q5's will be available soon.

I can't wait to see what other future modules Dereelight comes out with. It's nice having a set of lights (CL1H, DBS) that can have the modules interchanged.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 18, 2007)

cat said:


> Surely it's not just the bigger reflector that does it?


 
Surely it is the bigger reflector.  That's why the DBS has been reported to out throw Tiablo's with Q5 WC's, because the DBS has a better reflector (for throw). Dereelight obviously did their home work and designed a big, deep, and efficient reflector that focuses the light into a very tight beam. Overall it may not put out more lumens than a Fenix P3D with a Q5, but it's just focusing the light differently. It's almost like it has an aspheric lens on it, you can almost see the LED being projected on the wall, that's how well focused it is.


----------



## JKL (Oct 18, 2007)

_Hi WadeF,
great review and pictures, very interesting ._ 
 _Dereelight DBS Q5................................_


----------



## WadeF (Oct 28, 2007)

JKL said:


> _Hi WadeF,_
> _great review and pictures, very interesting ._
> _Dereelight DBS Q5................................_


I have 3-stage Q5 pills on the way. I'll post beam shots when I get them.


----------



## JKL (Oct 28, 2007)

Thanks WadeF :thumbsup:


----------



## WadeF (Oct 29, 2007)

Got a Maxpedition universal flashlight / baton holster from Lighthound for my DBS, and it seems to work pretty good. Here are some pics:





Picture with the protective flap up, which can also be removed:


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 29, 2007)

Looks pretty good Wade. :twothumbs

How much did one of them set you back? I have been wondering what to do about a holster etc for the DBS. Been thinking about a baton ring to easily slide it in and out.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 29, 2007)

It's about $20:

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2791

It will even holster a Mag 6D!


----------



## JKL (Oct 29, 2007)

:goodjob: WadeF !
When my DBS Q5 will arrive, I'll buy a Maxpedition UFBS.
IMHO Maxpedition holsters are excellent, this is what I use for my Lumapower M1.


----------



## nanotech17 (Oct 30, 2007)

finally mine arrived this morning,all all i have to say is "OMG i've seen poop that would turn you white"
here are some photos,this sucker is a real winner,beamshots later at nite :naughty:






























































the holster belongs to a Nuwai ALX352-AL 5 watter.
it fit the DBS :naughty:


----------



## WadeF (Oct 30, 2007)

:twothumbs Happy to hear your DBS arrived nanotech17! I was feeling your pain when you'd post updates about it taking awhile. Glad it is finally safe in your hands. Let us know what you think. 

My Q5 pills should be here by Friday.


----------



## Patriot (Oct 30, 2007)

Nano, that holster is a sweet fit for the DBS. It looks like it was made for it. Congrats on your DBS. Very nice. :thumbsup:


----------



## Dogshund (Oct 30, 2007)

Hey Nano, Thats the winner for holsters so far!! Is it possible to buy one of them somewhere? 

Hey Wade, That 6D looks like a light post!!


----------



## JKL (Oct 30, 2007)

Congrats nanotech17,
We are interested to your opinion:twothumbs.
Cheers


----------



## cat (Oct 30, 2007)

Dogshund said:


> Hey Nano, Thats the winner for holsters so far!! Is it possible to buy one of them somewhere?


We'd probably have to buy a Nuwai to get one.  



Dogshund said:


> Hey Wade, That 6D looks like a light post!!


 I s'pose it all depends what he's got in it. ......24xAA and...nah, I don't suppose so. 

Thanks for the photos, guys. :thumbsup:


----------



## nanotech17 (Oct 30, 2007)

WadeF,
Thanks for the concern.
Looking 4ward to your Q5 pills.

Patriot36,
Thanks and yes it's so sweet,one should have one.

Dogshund,
I got a while back when i purchased the Nuwai at eliteled.com


JKL,
Thank you.
and this is my opinion :-
The DBS is very solid and well HA,the MRV that i used to have
is not bad but this one is the best in terms of build quality,
let alone the power from the emitter (let us refer to some photos)

*The contender ( teaser photos) DBS vs Mag 2D ssc p4 DD with 1x18650




























.
tower1 - 150m from the ground floor with DBS





tower1 same distance mag 2D ssc p4





dbs 100m to the target - the tree





mag 2D ssc p4 same distance slightly off target




*
i had to rush while taking the beamshots because i was in the state prison staff quarters compound ( glad you get the picture )
as for the wall beamshots i will add up later.


----------



## JKL (Oct 30, 2007)

:thanks: Nanotech17,
very nice pics and great DBS ! ...a real winner :twothumbs .

Now I only wait my DBS Q5 ...:naughty:


----------



## nanotech17 (Oct 30, 2007)

Ceiling bound beamshots 15 feet from the floor.

*DBS on Hi





Mag 2D ssc p4





Olight T20 Cree P4 Hi





Huntlight FTXSE Cree P4 Hi





RB80




*
check out the hotspot intensity of the DBS & the Mag 2D,it's like it's gonna explode run!


----------



## WadeF (Nov 2, 2007)

Got my replacement 3-stage Q5 pills to replace the two fauly 3-stage Q4 pills I got. The 3-stage Q5's seem to have similar output to the Q4 pills when they were working properly, which is to be expected. I didn't have a LUX meter when the 3-stage Q4 pills were working, so I was only able to take EV readings with my Sekonic meter, and got around 13.5EV, which translates into around 28,900LUX. I have to do some more testing, as I took my original readings with a different SMO reflector, which had a bit of a rainbow cast, so I got another which doesn't have the rainbow, but maybe the rainbow one produced a brighter spot? 

So here is the interesting thing, one of my malfucntioning Q4 pills is stuck in high, but not just high, it's drawing 2A! It is brighter than the Q5's as they are drawing ~1.2A which is what they should be drawing on high. So I kind of have myself a TURBO BOOST pill.  I'm not sure how well the Q4 would hold up to the 2A current. Maybe alright if I only use it for short periods of time. It's reading 13.7-13.8EV on my Sekonic meter, which is around the 35,000LUX range according to Sekonic. 

On my DX meter the 2A Q4 gives me 20,000LUX, and the Q5 3-stages working normally give me aroudn 16,500LUX. 

I have another LUX meter on the way and will be doing more testing. I also have a R2 bin CREE on the way. So do I swap a Q5 for the R2, or swap the Q4 for a 2A R2 to create as SUPER TURBO BOOSTER pill for the DBS?


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 2, 2007)

WadeF said:


> So here is the interesting thing, one of my malfucntioning Q4 pills is stuck in high, but not just high, it's drawing 2A! ... So do I swap a Q5 for the R2, or swap the Q4 for a 2A R2 to create as SUPER TURBO BOOSTER pill for the DBS?


Hi Wade, personally, I would be a bit worried about running a 18650 at that kind of battery drain. Clearly your 2A Q4 module is defective, so it's hard to predict what kind of battery-circuit interactions that could cause. Probably best just to toss it. Just my $0.02.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 2, 2007)

selfbuilt said:


> Hi Wade, personally, I would be a bit worried about running a 18650 at that kind of battery drain. Clearly your 2A Q4 module is defective, so it's hard to predict what kind of battery-circuit interactions that could cause. Probably best just to toss it. Just my $0.02.


 
Yeah, I'm looking to get more feedback about this. However, AW's batteries are protected, and should cut out if too much current is trying to be drawn. Does 2A at 4V mean the LED is running at 8 watts? 

I have an Ultrafire WF-500 rated at 500 lumens that runs on two 18650's and I would think that bulb is using a lot more juice than the LED at 2A.


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 2, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Yeah, I'm looking to get more feedback about this.


Try posting your experiences in the "Flashlight Electronics - Batteries Included" topic of the main CPF page. I've found a lot of CPFers there very knowledgeable about all things battery related. Good luck!


----------



## WadeF (Nov 4, 2007)

Update! I did some more testing with my 3 Q5 pills. I found one is a bit brighter than the others, Q5 lottery.  With my DX LUX meter I'm getting 18,500 LUX @ 1 meter. My Sekonic 408 light meter ($400 meter, but I don't know how accurate it is against similarly priced LUX meters) gives an EV of 13.6, which translates to around 30,000LUX on the Sekonic website using their EV to LUX chart. I got 13.6 LUX with my 6D Mag and Xenon bulb and fresh cells as well.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 5, 2007)

Did more testing today with the DBS and the 3-stage Q5, I now have a 2-stage digital Q5 on the way which Dereelight says is a bit brighter than the 3-stage it replaced, so I'll post results when I get it.

Here are some results from the Q5, SMO reflector, freshly charged 18650. I have two lux meters now the DX meter, and I just got a meter, supposedly better (cost more than the DX) by Tes, the Tes 1332A.

DBS 3-Stage HI: DX = 19,300 TES = 26,200
DBS 3-Stage MED: DX= 9,050 TES = 12,350
DBS 3-Stage LOW: DX=2,280 TES = 3,120

To compare to lightreviews.info:

They have the CL1H V2 w/ 5-stage HI and OP at 5480 LUX

My meters with the same set up: DX = 3,540 TES = 4610

Lightreviews.info has the Tiablo A9S Q5 at 21380 for their max reading. So my TES meter, reading lower than lightreviews.info's meter, has a much higher LUX reading for the DBS 3-stage Q5.  

If I add 19% to the reading my Tes meter gave for the CL1H 5-stage, I get the same figure lightreviews.info had for theirs. If I add 19% to the DBS reading I got on the tes, I come up wth 31,178. The interesting thing is that's about what I get with my Sekonic 408 meter, which gives an EV of 13.6, which translates to around 30-31k lux according to Sekonic's conversion chart.

I'd love to know what kind of light meter lightreviews.info is using and how accurate it is, etc. It would be nice if I could just add 19% to whatever reading I get with my Tes meter to get a more realistic reading. Or maybe lightreview.info's meter reads high? I find it interesting that their readings agree with my Sekonic 408 meter.


----------



## Dogshund (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks for the work and info Wade!:twothumbs


----------



## JKL (Nov 6, 2007)

:goodjob: WadeF.



> Did more testing today with the DBS and the 3-stage Q5, I now have a 2-stage digital Q5 on the way which Dereelight says is a bit brighter than the 3-stage it replaced, so I'll post results when I get it.


 :thanks:


----------



## StefanFS (Nov 6, 2007)

WadeF said:


> If I add 19% to the reading my Tes meter gave for the CL1H 5-stage, I get the same figure lightreviews.info had for theirs. If I add 19% to the DBS reading I got on the tes, I come up wth 31,178. The interesting thing is that's about what I get with my Sekonic 408 meter, which gives an EV of 13.6, which translates to around 30-31k lux according to Sekonic's conversion chart.
> 
> I'd love to know what kind of light meter lightreviews.info is using and how accurate it is, etc. It would be nice if I could just add 19% to whatever reading I get with my Tes meter to get a more realistic reading. Or maybe lightreview.info's meter reads high? I find it interesting that their readings agree with my Sekonic 408 meter.


 
My own meters, and one at work I have access to, are very consistent with the numbers LightReviews.info have published for various lights I have, eg. the Tiablos. My Tiablo A9 gave ~21 500 Lux when I measured it. 
Stefan


----------



## tyler (Nov 6, 2007)

I am a semi-regular lurker -- I try to stay away because every time I visit this darn forum I end up ordering several lights -- and I am coming out of the shadows to ask a question about my latest foray into the dark world of light. :thumbsup:

After reading Wade's wonderful review, I ordered a DBS several weeks ago. I opted for the free shipping (when it was still the slow version), and I didn't get the light until last week. Well I opted for the 3-stage, and ordered some 18650's from Deal Extreme at the same time. I didn't get the batteries until yesterday (21 days after I ordered, thanks again choosing the free shipping), so I ordered a DBS three weeks ago and finally got to turn it on for the first time last night! Talk about frustrating!

At any rate, after all that, I found out my Q4 3-stage pill was a one stage "model". :mecry: Well, a quick email to Alan and he PROMPTLY got back to me and a Q5 2SD is on the way. :twothumbs

Out of curiosity, since I have a few weeks to wait on the new pill, how do I measure the current the pill is drawing? I'm curious at what brightness level it is stuck and I don't have any light meters. Is there another way I could check this other than current?

Thanks! (For both the help on this and the dang compelling write-up that had me ordering another light!) :nana:

Tyler


----------



## WadeF (Nov 6, 2007)

The 3-stage digitals are tricky to measure because they draw more and more current as the battery's voltage drops, to keep powering that Q5.  You can take a reading by using your multi-meter, put it on mA, and you need to switch the red lead to the other terminal, mine says 10A MAX Unfused, then touch the black to the rear of the batter and the read to the contact point on the body tube (this is with the tailcap off). The light should come on and you should get a current reading.

I have a 2DS on the way too, should be Dereelight's brightest pill to date. If it is, I'll probably swap the Q5 with a R2 when I get my R2 bin Cree.


----------



## tyler (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks Wade!

So it looks like mine is super-charged too.

2.34 amps with the battery at 4.05 volts.

Tyler


----------



## WadeF (Nov 7, 2007)

tyler said:


> Thanks Wade!
> 
> So it looks like mine is super-charged too.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, sound like what my one 3-stage Q4 is doing. Mine gets pretty warm and I don't know how much of that current is reaching the emitter. So you may not want to run it for long period of time, and it will drain your batteries twice as fast as normal. I'm looking forward to the 2SD.  I may have to order a 2nd for my CL1H V3 if I like the improvement over the 3-stage Q5.


----------



## Mrgooch (Nov 7, 2007)

There are a lot of nice pictures of the DBS but none showing its size in relation to the hand. Any out there?


----------



## ernsanada (Nov 7, 2007)

Mrgooch said:


> There are a lot of nice pictures of the DBS but none showing its size in relation to the hand. Any out there?














From


----------



## tyler (Nov 7, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Yeah, sound like what my one 3-stage Q4 is doing. Mine gets pretty warm and I don't know how much of that current is reaching the emitter. So you may not want to run it for long period of time, and it will drain your batteries twice as fast as normal. I'm looking forward to the 2SD.  I may have to order a 2nd for my CL1H V3 if I like the improvement over the 3-stage Q5.



I don't have a CL1H, and I'm trying to stay away. Please don't mention that light in this discussion, or I might succumb!  I keep telling myself that my A2 fills the spot of the CL1H. Yep, that's the ticket.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 7, 2007)

Here are a couple more, just to have another hand as an example. 





Needed more fill flash.  I think my finger was covering the flash, oops:


----------



## Dogshund (Nov 7, 2007)

Oh man, those photos are teasing! I'm trying my best to wait for the black version! :sick2:


----------



## JKL (Nov 8, 2007)

JKL said:


> _Hi WadeF,
> great review and pictures, very interesting ._
> _Dereelight DBS Q5................................_



My DBS Q5 -3 stage is arrived, the first impression:
beautifull Fit and Finish , very comfortable,strong ,with a great throw.
Rougly speaking amazing. :devil:


----------



## cmichael (Nov 8, 2007)

Any comparison beam shot to Tiablo A9?


----------



## JKL (Nov 8, 2007)

cmichael said:


> Any comparison beam shot to Tiablo A9?



As soon as possible, I wait also a Tiablo A9 Q5 .

Holster


----------



## fluke (Nov 12, 2007)

Superb review Wade :twothumbs :twothumbs
Do you own an modded LED Focusing Lenser ??
Would love to see how that stacks up against the Malkoff's, Dereelights etc, etc.


----------



## cat (Nov 12, 2007)

Yes, thanks again for all the good photos, Wade. :thumbsup: Much appreciated.


----------



## fluke (Nov 12, 2007)

Forgive me for asking, but the photo of the CL1H is that for real ??
Was just wondering if that photo was mixed up ??
It seems to have a lot of throw for such a small light, especially when compared to say the Malkoff M60 on Page 2.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 12, 2007)

fluke said:


> Forgive me for asking, but the photo of the CL1H is that for real ??
> Was just wondering if that photo was mixed up ??
> It seems to have a lot of throw for such a small light, especially when compared to say the Malkoff M60 on Page 2.


 
The CL1H with SMO reflector has awesome throw for a light its size. It beats out my Malkoff M60 easily (as it should since the M60 is OP reflector), and that was with the older pill. You should see it now with the 3-stage Q5, and it would be brighter yet with the new 2-stage Q5 (1.2A version). The CL1H V3.0 is an awesome light.


----------



## fluke (Nov 12, 2007)

Thanks for the quick reply.
That sort of seals it maybe, as Gene just added some Q4 M60's with 8 degree colmator lens :naughty:


----------



## WadeF (Nov 12, 2007)

I have the Q2 M60.  I'll look forward to hear how Gene's new drop-in is, his stuff is always really nice.


----------



## nanotech17 (Nov 12, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I have the Q2 M60.  I'll look forward to hear how Gene's new drop-in is, his stuff is always really nice.


WadeF,

Q4 WC dereelight drop in vs Q2 M60 which is brighter?


----------



## Zenster (Nov 12, 2007)

fluke said:


> Forgive me for asking, but the photo of the CL1H is that for real ??
> Was just wondering if that photo was mixed up ??
> It seems to have a lot of throw for such a small light, especially when compared to say the Malkoff M60 on Page 2.


 
I find that question funny because I recently got my first flashlight in this "class", a Tiablo A9s that totally blew me away compared to what I thought it would be like.
The A9s uses the same Q5 emitter as the DBS, and it (the A9s) makes any of the drop-ins look lethargic at best, especially considering the small size of this class of lights.

I am so impressed by the performance of these lights that I've already ordered a DBS SD2 plus a 2SM pill so I can use CR123's as backups during power failures.

Get one, whether it be a DBS, a Tiablo A9s or the MRV-SE, and you'll never go back to just any "flashlight" again. My Terralux converted Maglites (4 of them) are all slated to be given to friends and relatives just because I know I'll never use them again.

Then wait until the next higher generation R's arrive where you will be able to upgrade to that, and you'll start to look for excuses to leave the house at night. :laughing:


----------



## fluke (Nov 12, 2007)

Zenster said:


> I find that question funny because I recently got my first flashlight in this "class", a Tiablo A9s that totally blew me away compared to what I thought it would be like.
> The A9s uses the same Q5 emitter as the DBS, and it (the A9s) makes any of the drop-ins look lethargic at best, especially considering the small size of this class of lights.
> 
> I am so impressed by the performance of these lights that I've already ordered a DBS SD2 plus a 2SM pill so I can use CR123's as backups during power failures.
> ...



I need no excuse to leave the house at night I am a cab driver at night


----------



## WadeF (Nov 12, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> WadeF,
> 
> Q4 WC dereelight drop in vs Q2 M60 which is brighter?


 
Q4 WC should be brighter. Both are running at 1A, so the Q4 would have an advantage over the Q2. The M60 may have a nicer tint though.


----------



## cdosrun (Nov 13, 2007)

Thank you Wade for your excellent review,

I ordered a DBS on the back of your review and it arrived today; what an amazing throw! At first I wasn't especially impressed because I was playing with it in a well lit office (and expected Mag85 type performance) but outside at night it can project a nice spot some considerable distance! I have the two stage Q5 (SD) and there is a really objectionable whistle on low mode (15ish kHz at a guess) but I don't imagine that it is going to spend much time on low.

The question only remains now whether I partner it with the CL1H...

Thank you,

Andrew


----------



## WadeF (Nov 13, 2007)

I got my 2-stage Q5 today. It's putting out about 2,000LUX more at 1 meter than my 3-stage Q5. I also got my R2-bin Cree. It's on a larger board so I will have to trim it down to fit into a Dereelight pill.


----------



## JKL (Nov 13, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I got my 2-stage Q5 today. It's putting out about 2,000LUX more at 1 meter than my 3-stage Q5. I also got my R2-bin Cree. It's on a larger board so I will have to trim it down to fit into a Dereelight pill.




:bow:* R2-bin Cree-pill* :twothumbs

Next generation of R-Bin,as soon as available , into Dereelight pill will could be a fantastic improvement for all DBS users .....


----------



## robo21 (Nov 13, 2007)

cdosrun said:


> Thank you Wade for your excellent review,
> 
> I ordered a DBS on the back of your review and it arrived today; what an amazing throw! At first I wasn't especially impressed because I was playing with it in a well lit office (and expected Mag85 type performance) but outside at night it can project a nice spot some considerable distance! I have the two stage Q5 (SD) and *there is a really objectionable whistle on low mode (15ish kHz at a guess) but I don't imagine that it is going to spend much time on low.*
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the info Andrew, I was going to order a DBS but now I don't think so. I hate high pitched whistling and it has NO place in a flashlight. Plus the fact that if there is audio output there is most likely increased battery drain. That's really too bad. I would not want to rule out low mode as in an emergency that would probably be the mode used most. 

Earplugs wouldn't be enough to convince me to buy a DBS. :shakehead


----------



## JKL (Nov 13, 2007)

robo21 said:


> Thanks for the info Andrew, I was going to order a DBS but now I don't think so. I hate high pitched whistling and it has NO place in a flashlight. Plus the fact that if there is audio output there is most likely increased battery drain. That's really too bad. I would not want to rule out low mode as in an emergency that would probably be the mode used most.
> 
> Earplugs wouldn't be enough to convince me to buy a DBS. :shakehead




 My Dereelight makes noise on med & high, Normal? 


> Plus the fact that *if there is audio output there* *is most likely increased battery drain*.


Could you explain this consideration, thanks.:candle:


----------



## robo21 (Nov 13, 2007)

JKL said:


> My Dereelight makes noise on med & high, Normal? Could you explain this consideration, thanks.:candle:


My thought was that if there is noise, there must be energy being wasted to create that noise. Noise can't be made for free. Maybe inefficient circuitry?


----------



## WadeF (Nov 13, 2007)

robo21 said:


> My thought was that if there is noise, there must be energy being wasted to create that noise. Noise can't be made for free. Maybe inefficient circuitry?


 
Someone stated their regulated Surefire does the same thing. Hopefully they'll be able to figure out a way to get rid of the noise, but if Surefire has the same issue, it may not be that easy to over come. The 1-stage Q5 shouldn't have this issue, I never hear the noise on HIGH, just on the medium and low modes.


----------



## cdosrun (Nov 13, 2007)

I understood the noise to be magnetostriction within the inductor and the normal cure was potting the coil to stop the wire from oscillating. If that is the case, there would be no difference in efficiency by stopping the noise as the oscillation would simply stress the epoxy and result in *heat* instead of sound (*heat* as a doubt it could be measured except in a calorimeter).

The noise is akin to the HT whistle on a CRT television set and I can hear it from several meters away but I have pretty good hearing. IMHO I wouldn't be bothered about the efficiency, just the noise.

As I said, I am not too bothered about low and will see what happens when new pills are released; I am just not quite as sure about getting the CL1H until it is resolved. As Wade said, the noise is only present on low mode with the 2SD module.

Andrew


----------



## Steve L (Nov 13, 2007)

The noise was only heard on the 3 stage digital pill(in medium and to a lesser extent low). The 2 stage multi (2sm-twist the battery tube for low) is silent. Either single stage pill is silent(1sd, 1sm). The 2 stage digital pill is supposed to be silent, I am waiting for mine to arrive.


----------



## StandardBattery (Nov 13, 2007)

Steve L said:


> The noise was only heard on the 3 stage digital pill(in medium and to a lesser extent low). The 2 stage multi (2sm-twist the battery tube for low) is silent. Either single stage pill is silent(1sd, 1sm). The 2 stage digital pill is supposed to be silent, I am waiting for mine to arrive.


 
*cdosrun* is reporting a whistle on the new 2 Stage Digital in post 143.


----------



## nanotech17 (Nov 13, 2007)

anybody can show a pictures between Q5 WF/WC/WG ?
i like to see the difference


----------



## cmichael (Nov 17, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Hope on a plane with your Tiablo and come over for a duel.  Hehe. Anyone near Perkasie, PA (Bucks County) that has a Tiablo A9 Q5 WC?
> 
> It's after midnight, but I went out to take a beam shot in my back yard. I live in town, so there is light pollution everywhere.  From my back yard the farthest target (that isn't someone's home) is a tree on the other side of a building that is 300 feet from where I was:


 

Happy Birthday WadeF........


----------



## WadeF (Nov 17, 2007)

cmichael said:


> Happy Birthday WadeF........


 
Thanks.  I told my wife not to get me anything because I've bought so many flashlights lately, and I still have some on the way.  I got a check from my folk's so that will help recoop some of the damage, hehe.


----------



## nanotech17 (Nov 18, 2007)

happy birthday too WadeF


----------



## Dogshund (Nov 18, 2007)

Happy Birthday Wade!!


----------



## Curious_character (Nov 18, 2007)

cdosrun said:


> I understood the noise to be magnetostriction within the inductor and the normal cure was potting the coil to stop the wire from oscillating. If that is the case, there would be no difference in efficiency by stopping the noise as the oscillation would simply stress the epoxy and result in *heat* instead of sound (*heat* as a doubt it could be measured except in a calorimeter).
> 
> The noise is akin to the HT whistle on a CRT television set and I can hear it from several meters away but I have pretty good hearing. IMHO I wouldn't be bothered about the efficiency, just the noise. . .


I agree. It only takes a few mW to make quite a racket. If a truly significant fraction of the total flashlight power consumption was getting converted to audio, you'd want to wear ear protection.

c_c


----------



## cat (Nov 18, 2007)

:wave: Happy birthday! :thumbsup:

i wish you well with moderating the urge to buy


----------



## WadeF (Nov 18, 2007)

Thanks again everyone for wishing me a happy birthday.  Hopefully Dereelight will be able to eliminate the noise, or reduce it. It doesn't bother me, but I'm sure there are people who it would bother. Hopefully if the noise is reduced or eliminated, the performance isn't affected.


----------



## orbital (Nov 18, 2007)

+

The DBS is the clear winner in the Throw Specific category, and should be interesting how it preforms with R bins ~1200 feet possible??

Knowing Alan is always trying to better the best, do you think there is a need for a DBS V2?
If so, what could be improved?

p.s. Happy Birthday Wade, from a fellow Scorpio...:thumbsup:


----------



## WadeF (Nov 18, 2007)

I'm thinking a R2 won't increase throw a whole lot over a Q5. Maybe 1000 feet to 1,050 feet?  I would expect maybe a 1,000-2,000 increase in lux. I'm working on getting the peices together to make a R2 DBS pill. If I'm sucessful I'll post results. 

To really see more of a jump in throw over a Q5, we'll probably have to wait for R5 bins.


----------



## cat (Nov 18, 2007)

"Better than the best"? Just improve the quality of the threading and anodising so no-one can say Tiablo or whatever are better. I'm glad, though, that they didn't accept the black anodising they were shown. 

No need for a V2. Nothing else comes close to this. They come out with new pills every week or two and make them available quickly. New switch circuits and new Crees. And the OP reflector option. And with a good mood, a good vibe. 
:goodjob:


----------



## orbital (Nov 18, 2007)

+

cat, if you are quoting me, the wording is wrong and its out of context.
Dereelights are the best lights, regardless of price in my opinion.
My wording of Alan to 'better the best'
means the difficult task of trying to perfect on something nearly perfect.

I'll take it you dig your Derees'


----------



## WadeF (Nov 19, 2007)

I just ordered another DBS to give to my father for Christmas.  As well as an AW 18650 battery and charger. I have an extra Maxpedition holster as well, so maybe I'll let him have that too.  

Dereelight will have a 2SD and 3SD pill available, not available until next week most likely. They have made improvements to the pill to reduce the noise issue! When I get mine I'll report on the noise, or lack there of hopefully.  It should also be a Q5 WC! 

I did get a 2SD Q5 WF, and it still had some noise on low. The sad thing is I tried swapping the emitter for a R2 bin, but I got the R2 on the wrong board (should have gone with the regular star, but wanted to try a round). So after buggering with it I ended up damaging the R2!  I killed a rare species. Hope there isn't a fine for such an awful thing.  

I was pretty bummed when I did that. Live and learn. Another R2 is on its way to me, and this time I'm having Dereelight send me a 3SD pill without an emitter, so it will make the operation easier.  As long as I can trim down the new star successfully I should be good to go and will have a DBS with a R2 running at 1.2A hopefully.  

It will probably be 2 weeks from now at the earliest before I can do all this. If I fail again, I may have to take a break from modding for awhile, as it's expensive when you screw up and have to replace the parts to try again.  All this for probably an extra 2,000 lux. Maybe I'll get lucky and the R2 will be like 5,000 LUX more! With that larger reflector a little extra lumens really ups the LUX.


----------



## Dr. Leo Marvin (Jan 25, 2008)

Wade,
Can you tell me a bit about the performance of the dbs with the OP reflector? The only "real" light I have is the T1 which I really like. How would you compare the two lights is terms usability? I use my lights for general use, hunting, camping, ect... I enjoy reading your posts and thank you in advance for any help.


----------



## WadeF (Jan 25, 2008)

Dr. Leo Marvin said:


> Wade,
> Can you tell me a bit about the performance of the dbs with the OP reflector? The only "real" light I have is the T1 which I really like. How would you compare the two lights is terms usability? I use my lights for general use, hunting, camping, ect... I enjoy reading your posts and thank you in advance for any help.


 
To be honest I haven't used my DBS with an OP reflector a whole lot. I have a DBS v2 on the way and I'm planning on having that set up as my thrower with a smooth reflector, and I'm going to probably put the OP in my original DBS and try using it more with the OP.

The OP produces a very clean beam, maybe the best I've seen. It still throws pretty good, it should out throw a Fenix T1, so even with a OP reflector it will still have a fairly tight and intense hot spot. 

It depends on what you want to use the light for. If you want a floodier beam you can get away with a smaller light and have just as much total output (same lumens), but with a more diffused beam, with more spill, etc. 

I'll be posting a full review of the new DBS v2, so keep a look out for that. I should have it sometime next week.


----------



## Fird (Jan 26, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Dereelight will have a 2SD and 3SD pill available, not available until next week most likely. They have made improvements to the pill to reduce the noise issue! When I get mine I'll report on the noise, or lack there of hopefully.  It should also be a Q5 WC!




Is this the model after the "flickering" one in which they reduced the PWM frequency to clear up the noise? (a severe dealbreaker for me as flicker really bothers me). According to another forum it was somewhere around 94hz.


----------



## robo21 (Jan 26, 2008)

WadeF said:


> To be honest I haven't used my DBS with an OP reflector a whole lot. I have a DBS v2 on the way and I'm planning on having that set up as my thrower with a smooth reflector, and I'm going to probably put the OP in my original DBS and try using it more with the OP.
> 
> The OP produces a very clean beam, maybe the best I've seen. It still throws pretty good, it should out throw a Fenix T1, so even with a OP reflector it will still have a fairly tight and intense hot spot.
> 
> ...


 
Two questions for you Wade:


What's the latest with the high pitched noise emitted by the DBS - was that ever ironed out?
Have you had an opportunity to compare the DBS and the Tiablo A9 side by side?
Thanks in advance. :thumbsup:


----------



## Dr. Leo Marvin (Jan 26, 2008)

WadeF said:


> To be honest I haven't used my DBS with an OP reflector a whole lot. I have a DBS v2 on the way and I'm planning on having that set up as my thrower with a smooth reflector, and I'm going to probably put the OP in my original DBS and try using it more with the OP.
> 
> The OP produces a very clean beam, maybe the best I've seen. It still throws pretty good, it should out throw a Fenix T1, so even with a OP reflector it will still have a fairly tight and intense hot spot.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Wade! I'll look for that review.


----------



## Stereodude (Jan 26, 2008)

Fird said:


> Is this the model after the "flickering" one in which they reduced the PWM frequency to clear up the noise? (a severe dealbreaker for me as flicker really bothers me). According to another forum it was somewhere around 94hz.


You might want to take note that his post was from November. But yes, those pills that don't whine do have visible PWM artifacts. Per my last e-mail from Alan they are working on a better compromise between the PWM artifacts and the whine.


----------



## WadeF (Jan 26, 2008)

robo21 said:


> Have you had an opportunity to compare the DBS and the Tiablo A9 side by side?


 
Stereodude answered the pill question. I haven't had a chance to compare to a Tiablo A9, and I really have no desire to pick up a Tiablo since from every test I've seen the DBS and the Raidfire beat the Tiablo in throw. I also have a DBS v2 on the way so I'm pretty well covered for throwers.  

The DBS v2 with the new AR coated lens and R2 pill should put it even farther ahead of the Tiablo when it comes to throw.


----------



## robo21 (Jan 26, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Stereodude answered the pill question. I haven't had a chance to compare to a Tiablo A9, and I really have no desire to pick up a Tiablo since from every test I've seen the DBS and the Raidfire beat the Tiablo in throw. I also have a DBS v2 on the way so I'm pretty well covered for throwers.
> 
> The DBS v2 with the new AR coated lens and R2 pill should put it even farther ahead of the Tiablo when it comes to throw.


 
Thanks Wade, I guess we will have to wait and see if the R2 pill makes noise as well.


----------



## WadeF (Jan 26, 2008)

robo21 said:


> Thanks Wade, I guess we will have to wait and see if the R2 pill makes noise as well.


 
I don't know what to expect with the DI R2 pills. I am expecting the R2 3-stage to have the PWM flickering, but it doesn't really bother me, and the whine never bothered me either.


----------



## Stereodude (Jan 26, 2008)

robo21 said:


> Thanks Wade, I guess we will have to wait and see if the R2 pill makes noise as well.


My 3SD Q5 has a very slight whine that I can hear if I hold the flashlight to my ear and it's the variety with the PWM "flicker".


----------



## ernsanada (Jan 26, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I don't know what to expect with the DI R2 pills. I am expecting the R2 3-stage to have the PWM flickering, but it doesn't really bother me, and the whine never bothered me either.




Wade I feel the same way. The whine and the PWM does not bother me on all the lights I have.


----------



## rokspydr (Feb 12, 2008)

As I am interested in this light I was wondering. Why do people get it witht the 18650 insted of two cr123's? I would think the higher voltage from the two cr123's would be better. Is there a runtime difference with either batteries?

TIA,
marc


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 12, 2008)

rokspydr said:


> As I am interested in this light I was wondering. Why do people get it witht the 18650 insted of two cr123's? I would think the higher voltage from the two cr123's would be better. Is there a runtime difference with either batteries?
> 
> TIA,
> marc


The Digital "pills" don't support 6V input. They only support 2.7-4.2V That's why most everyone uses 18650 (plus they're rechargeable).


----------



## Gunner12 (Feb 12, 2008)

The Digital pills also push the LED harder. There is also a higher voltage difference between the voltage of the 18650 battery to the voltage of the LED(4.2v vs 3.7v) and the voltage of 2 CR123 and the voltage of the LED(6v vs 3.7v).

Great review WadeF

Another light that has been on my wish list since its first review.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 21, 2008)

Does it throw better than the RaidFire Spear?


----------



## WadeF (Feb 21, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Does it throw better than the RaidFire Spear?


 
Technically, yes. In real life, it's hard to see much difference, at least from what I've been able to see so far. I haven't had a chance to compare them side by side in a big enough open space to see how they do at 800 feet, 1,000 feet, etc. 

On the LUX meter, the DBS is ahead of the Raidfire Spear.


----------



## nanotech17 (Feb 23, 2008)

i just swap the Q4 3 stage in my DBS with DI R2 pill and add an o-ring at the back of the DBS reflector and oo: holy fruitty my DBS is a monster ( even brighter than my Raidfire) :wow:
Just unbelieveable what this thing can do by just adjusting a little on the height of the pill.
And no more artifacts in the middle of the hotspot unlike before added an o-ring :thumbsup:
Imagine if Deerelight came up with Quad Cree or Seoul Acriche with a different reflector that can fit in the DBS


----------



## selfbuilt (Feb 23, 2008)

nanotech17 said:


> i just swap the Q4 3 stage in my DBS with DI R2 pill and add an o-ring at the back of the DBS reflector and oo: holy fruitty my DBS is a monster ( even brighter than my Raidfire)


Hi nano, glad it worked out for you. Sounds like the original Q4 3SD had a height issue.

FYI, In my case the R2 DI was equivalent to the Q5 RaidFire for the first few seconds, but then dropped down to the throw level of my Q4 3SD (both are at the right height with no artifacts). For comparisons with outputs and runtimes here:
DBS V2 (with R2 Cree/ DI) Comparison Review 

Although the DBS V2 is a real winner, I haven't made up my mind about the R2 DI yet. The buzzing on low is a lot more noticeable than my Q4 3SD, as is the PWM (121 Hz on the DI, undetectable on the 3SD). However, I do like warmer tints on my lights ... although that's not helping much with all the snow around here right now.


----------



## nanotech17 (Feb 24, 2008)

Hi selfbuilt,
nice reviews as always and your review is one of my guidelines to get a new light :thumbsup:.
My Di R2 is now rest permanently in my DBS V1 because i just love and getting in love even more with warmer tint beam because it perform & penetrate the dark patches on the road outdoor better.No glaring.
Time to order another warmer tint beam and that would be Rebel 100 from fenix to complete the collection :devil:
But the Inova's is lurking around the corner with bloddy good price but they don't have the strobe function which to me is essential at my working place.
never mind i will wait for the T5


----------



## River83 (Nov 3, 2008)

http://www.lucertolone.it/

ihihihih there is your photo!


----------



## wbp (Nov 4, 2008)

I just did some comparisons between a Raidfire Spear and a DBS V2 with 3SD Q5 pill. I measured 240 lumens from the Spear and 250 from the DBS, virtually the same lumen output. The Spear's CCT was quite high, at around 7600 K, compared to the DBS' 5500 K.

From my initial tests looking at the beam on a white screen, I expected the Spear to be the throw winner, since it has a smaller, more defined spot. The DBS's beam is not as uniform, when you look at it on a wall or screen you see "CREE rings". I fully expected the Spear to out-throw the DBS.

I just came back from night-time walk in a nearby park. I was surprised to find that the DBS was, to my eyes at least, superior at lighting up objects at long distances (500 to 1000'). In actual use, the combination of warmer tint and more light in the center of the beam wins out. I was so surprised that I even swapped batteries just to be sure one of them wasn't low.

William


----------



## phantom23 (Nov 4, 2008)

Spear has slightly adjustable beam, mine is set to best focus at really long distance and it's amazing!


----------



## EngrPaul (Nov 4, 2008)

The 5A Q3 tint and the OP reflector are a perfect combination for this light. It's my new favorite for outdoor use, great throw and spill and color. Nothing else compares! :twothumbs


----------



## WadeF (Nov 4, 2008)

wbp said:


> I just came back from night-time walk in a nearby park. I was surprised to find that the DBS was, to my eyes at least, superior at lighting up objects at long distances (500 to 1000'). In actual use, the combination of warmer tint and more light in the center of the beam wins out. I was so surprised that I even swapped batteries just to be sure one of them wasn't low.
> 
> William


 
This is also my experience between my DBS V1 and V2 and my Raidfire Spear, and other Spears I have encountered. 

Check the size of the hot spots at 20-30 feet on a white wall. My DBS maintains a noticeably smaller hot spot than the Spear. Make sure you are looking at the hot spot and not the hot spot plus the corona (bright area around the hot spot) when it comes to the DBS.


----------



## warrior (Nov 24, 2008)

MCE review needed :naughty:


----------



## Bruce B (Nov 25, 2008)

Nice light and great beam shots Wade. What are the spec on this particular gem and where can one pick up one of these lights? Info would be appreciated.


----------



## Niteowl (Nov 25, 2008)

Bruce B said:


> Nice light and great beam shots Wade. What are the spec on this particular gem and where can one pick up one of these lights? Info would be appreciated.



I purchased one of these with the S1/WH R2 pill and an OP reflector in January and haven't really felt the need to buy another light since then. It's almost as if I finally found what I'd been searching for. I have bought a couple other lights since then, but they were for other uses and pale in comparison to the satisfaction I get from my DBS.

Thread from CPFMP HERE.

Link to manufacturers site HERE.

For the past nine months or so, it's mostly been the DBS and an LM31.


----------



## ODatsBright (Mar 21, 2009)

Well....thanks guys. I lurked back for an update of lights and have ended up buys 4 different ones in the last 2 months. :| On order is a DBS V3 with MC-E emitter, extension tube, 3 stage pill with R2 warm tint. Not really interested in 'throw' so to speak as I like a wall of light. I like the fact that I can get different pills at a later date to "update" a light. Somewhere I read that the MC-E spits out 500+ lumens, that should be just about right to walk the dog. 

Thanks again for the exceptional reviews here. Lots of honest real world information!


----------



## jax (Sep 27, 2010)

thanks for posting pics wade:thumbsup:


----------



## troelskc (Dec 14, 2011)

Just ordered the DBS XR-E R2, 3SM (SMO) + the aspherical lens and the EXT650 extender to be able to use 2 x 18650. 

Could you guys recommend some high capacity 18650's with the right configuration for the light; protected/not protected, flat top/raised top and so on. I'm not sure which ones to get.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mr. Tone (Dec 14, 2011)

troelskc said:


> Just ordered the DBS XR-E R2, 3SM (SMO) + the aspherical lens and the EXT650 extender to be able to use 2 x 18650.
> 
> Could you guys recommend some high capacity 18650's with the right configuration for the light; protected/not protected, flat top/raised top and so on. I'm not sure which ones to get.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I would check out the Redilast brand sold by Tactical HID. I have some and they are well made. Their highest capacity cells contain Panasonic 2900 mah and 3100 mah. Check them out, there are also some good reviews of them in the flashlight electronics/batteries forum. You will like the DBS, it is a great thrower. I have had one for 3 years now and still am impressed by it.


----------



## troelskc (Dec 15, 2011)

Hi All! Got a reply from AW. I've just ordered a pair of AW P18650-31 for $40. Should be some of the best 18650 out there eh?


----------



## Mr. Tone (Dec 15, 2011)

troelskc said:


> Hi All! Got a reply from AW. I've just ordered a pair of AW P18650-31 for $40. Should be some of the best 18650 out there eh?



Yes, those are the highest capacity cells available and the AW brand is well respected around here. You should have good luck with those. Make sure you get a charger that will terminate properly and that has 2 independent charging channels.


----------



## troelskc (Dec 16, 2011)

Mr. Tone said:


> Yes, those are the highest capacity cells available and the AW brand is well respected around here. You should have good luck with those. Make sure you get a charger that will terminate properly and that has 2 independent charging channels.



I bought the Cytac charger from 4sevens. It should be ok?


----------



## DM51 (Dec 16, 2011)

The thread is straying off topic with posts about batteries, chargers etc. Please confine posts here to discussion of the light itself, and/or comments on Wade F's review. 

Anyone who wants to discuss batteries and chargers is welcome to start a separate thread in the appropriate forum.


----------



## cummins4x4 (Dec 16, 2011)

The aspheric is AWESOME. Easily out throws my SR51!! What a nice beam, light coloured building about 1400 yards away and you can see it light it up slightly and the reflective sign on it lights right up. Easily can see out into a hayfield 4 to 500 yards. No spill at all which is what I wanted, this thing will be great mounted on a rifle, might have to get another one.


----------



## troelskc (Dec 24, 2011)

cummins4x4 said:


> The aspheric is AWESOME. Easily out throws my SR51!! What a nice beam, light coloured building about 1400 yards away and you can see it light it up slightly and the reflective sign on it lights right up. Easily can see out into a hayfield 4 to 500 yards. No spill at all which is what I wanted, this thing will be great mounted on a rifle, might have to get another one.



The Aspheric mounted on a rifle eh? You using the XR-E R2? Have you tried the XM-L T6 + OP setup? I've just ordered it, because the XR-E R2 + SMO wasn't quite as usefull as I imagined, the hotspot was good but the spill was uneven and therefore not very usefull. I think the OP will be better on this light and the XM-L will provide a solid amount of light!


----------



## cummins4x4 (Dec 24, 2011)

troelskc said:


> The Aspheric mounted on a rifle eh? You using the XR-E R2? Have you tried the XM-L T6 + OP setup? I've just ordered it, because the XR-E R2 + SMO wasn't quite as usefull as I imagined, the hotspot was good but the spill was uneven and therefore not very usefull. I think the OP will be better on this light and the XM-L will provide a solid amount of light!



I am using the XR-E R2 in the aspheric. I have a XM-L T6 with the SMO, good throw but a dark area around the hotspot with spill outside the dark area. Haven't got an OP, will order one to try. I found that spill is distracting when looking through a scope especially when trying to look past trees, buildings or anything else that is closer than the target. Haven't mounted the aspherical yet, I'll post the results when I do.


----------



## troelskc (Dec 24, 2011)

Did you get the Neutral Warm White XM-L? I'll post the results on the OP + XM-L as well when i try it out. How is the XM-L + aspheric? Can't wait to try out these combinations.

Anyone else with experience on this specific setup?


----------

