# Xenon Short Arc Aviation Lamp



## lotsalumens (Jan 25, 2005)

Hi everyone,

Here is something neat I picked up off of ebay a couple of months ago. It is a 750 watt Optical Radiation Corp air cooled xenon short-arc aviation lamp module. It requires 18.4 volts at 41 amps, a significant starting pulse, and some type of forced air cooling (not hard to rig up though). I've been watching ebay for a beat up short arc power supply in this wattage range but have yet to find one. It has an extremely nice ellipsoidal reflector that is about the same diameter as a Thor reflector. I am itching to fire it up and see what the beam spread is like. The bulb is attached to the reflector at its base with some type of epoxy or ceramic and is apparently not replaceable. Guess you toss the whole module when the bulb dies. Anyway I am well aware of the hazards of short arc bulbs & power supplies (I also collect pre-1900 carbon arc street lamps and build high powered Tesla coils), but I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else here has experimented with this type of lamp. Hmm...a portable supply for this would be hefty but not impossible. Could make a nice flashlight! Wonder how it would do in the next shootout...

Charles
LotsaLumens


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## Hallis (Jan 26, 2005)

how much that little sweetie set you back? if you dont mind telling.

Shane


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## lotsalumens (Jan 26, 2005)

Shane,

I paid $49.99 for it which is amazing for a brand new boxed unit like this made in 1998. I gather the original price that Raytheon/Hughes paid was over $3k. Gotta love ebay. Powering it is more problematic. The reflector and housing alone are extremely nice however. Modified with a lower wattage short arc or HMI bulb that didn't require forced air cooling it could make a killer portable light (though I have not given up on the full powered version!).

Charles


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## MaxaBaker (Jan 26, 2005)

Awsome. That's like the ultimate upgrade to the Megaray and Maxabeam. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think some beamshots are neccesary /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif (if possible)


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## lotsalumens (Jan 26, 2005)

I'd post beamshots if I could, but the problem is I haven't found a suitable power supply. I figured this could be a good place to find others who might have experimented with one of these or similar lamps.


Charles


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## MaxaBaker (Jan 26, 2005)

Ya.....41 Amps. Maybe some kind of car jumper cable battery packs that u can get at PepBoys.


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## lotsalumens (Jan 26, 2005)

That could work. There are a bunch of battery options, but supplying enough current is really the easy part. Like automotive HID lamps this thing needs a ballast and ignitor combo, but capable of a much higher voltage pulse than an automotive system. I might be able to cobble something together, but I'm hoping for a better solution.

Zap!

Charles


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## greenLED (Jan 26, 2005)

Isn't that the same type of lamp being used in "The Sleeper"?


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## MaxaBaker (Jan 26, 2005)

greenLED, that is not the same lamp as being used in the Sleeper. The Sleeper is strictly incandescent. Think Maxabeam and Megaray. Xenon Short Arc. Except, it is about 5 times as powerful as the megaray /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/aaa.gif.

If focused correctly, I could see the beam traveling about 5 miles!!!!!!!!


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## LEDmodMan (Jan 27, 2005)

Nice!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif I can't believe you only paid $50! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Even if you pay $200 for the power supply, you will still have one of the cheapest and most powerful lights around. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

That *will* be one bad-a$$ light once powered up! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif

At over 750w of short-arc power, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif that will very likely beat the pants off of the Ken5! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/aaa.gif


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## Zelandeth (Jan 27, 2005)

Hmm, for testing purposes couldn't an alternative means of starting be used? I'm thinking something like a plasma dome here, you know how you can get a fluorescent tube to glow just by bringing it near the sphere due to the ionisation it causes in the mercury vapour.

Never really read up on short arc lamps though, so I'm making a shot in the dark here. Just figure that sort of thing might be a way to at least lower the striking voltage, if not actually get it to strike.


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## MaxaBaker (Jan 27, 2005)

Man....we really gotta find a power source for you. When LEDmodman said beat the pants off of the Ken5, he is probably making an understatement. If this is portable at all(Is it? Is it heavy and/or particularly big?), and you get it to work to the full 750watt specification, this will most likely be the most powerful portable light EVER for CPF!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif 

Think of it this way (the way I'm thinking of it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif ), 75 watt Maxabeam = 1000 lumens. So in return, 750watt = about 10,000 lumens!!!!! Now, the Ken5 puts out about 16,000 lumens. BUT, 10,000 lumens xenon short arc pretty much annihilates 16,000 lumens of incan. light (I think) (higher color temp. helps a lot to make it look brighter). Plus, the reflector of the Ken5 is a simple Lightforce 240 reflector (again, I think), yours xenon short arc would be working inside a proffesional aviation (10"???) reflector that is probably many times more efficient (and expensive) then the lightforce reflector so it probably throws light many times further and dosn't waste near as much of the lumens. Of coarse, I am far from being even mildly qualified to talk about this stuff but from what I see, Kenshiro is going to have to work very hard to compete with this thing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ken6.....30,000 lumens?????? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## Doug S (Jan 27, 2005)

Here is what Don Klipstein has to say about short arc Xenon lamps. They sound like loads of fun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif

Don's short arc info


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## MaxaBaker (Jan 27, 2005)

Dangerous???? Pish Posh. 

No, they can be very dangerous if not used correctly. But, they're still awsome.


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## Hallis (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, it's an aviation light, So go to a local private airport and see if you can get a mechanic there to find a part book for what poweres that kinda light.

Shane


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## Draco_Americanus (Jan 28, 2005)

I just so happen to have a powersupply that will power up a short arc lamp but only to 300 watts. I wish to make a spot light for that but I need a lamp and reflector(The lamp I have will not work well horizontaly)
I realy wish I found that lamp before you did! lucky human!


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## lotsalumens (Jan 28, 2005)

Draco, you should keep an eye on ebay. I've seen a bunch of those little Cermax arc lamps come up for auction though they are usually a little pricey ($200+). They are the same type used in the Megaray and are really tiny. I have often wondered if a cheap telescope could be repurposed to build a super megaray. Cheap big reflector telescopes come up a lot of auction.

Anyway this aviation lamp came with a manufacturer's test sheet and the total output in their test setup was measured at 6,919.7 lumens. They test the lights on a 48" diameter target and then measure footcandles at nine points on the target (one in the center and eight in an 18" diameter circle around the center). These are averaged together and lumen output is derived. This makes me wonder if some of the estimated outputs for other searchlights are accurate. Unfortunately they don't mention the distance to the target, which is no doubt fixed and calibrated and would help us guess at the kind of beam this thing throws. As far as dimensions go, the reflector (which is super nice) is about 8" at its outside edge and the whole assembly is 11" deep. Definitely the right size for a portable and insanely bright light!


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## NikolaTesla (Jan 29, 2005)

You may find the circuitry to run your light from these people: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifhttp://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/SX16/ILS_Searchlights_CHIS.pdf
NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

An Arc lamp is the Spark that takes away the Dark--HID Forever!

My Lights

They specialize in this type of light.

Be VERY careful. HID/Arc lights can put out dangerous amounts of UV if unfiltered. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


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## lotsalumens (Jan 29, 2005)

NikolaTesla,

Thanks for the warning. I have experience with lower power arc lamps (I collect early carbon arc lamps) and high voltage equipment (build big Telsa coils). I have read a lot about xenon arc lamps, and aside from the explosion hazard, as you mentoned the UV hazard is very real. Similar to an arc welder. Anyway I appreciate the warning and will look at your links. Gotta get this light working and into the next shootout!


Charles


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## Raybo (Jan 29, 2005)

Yep lotsa, you really have to get this thing fired up.(for my curiosity)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## MaxaBaker (Jan 29, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Raybo said:*
Yep lotsa, you really have to get this thing fired up.(for my curiosity)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]


For EVERYBODIES curiosity /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## KevinL (Jan 29, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NikolaTesla said:*
Be VERY careful. HID/Arc lights can put out dangerous amounts of UV if unfiltered. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm taking delivery of a Mag2HID in the near future, first step into HID /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But I've been reading a little and I'm kinda concerned. What kind of filtering is required to block the ultraviolet? Will a simple UCL do? This is a 10W Welch-Allyn Solarc bulb.


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## lotsalumens (Jan 30, 2005)

Yup I'm a newbie here. What is a Mag2HID? Sounds interesting.

cfb


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## KevinL (Jan 30, 2005)

The Mag2HID is a normal Maglite 2D that has been bored out to accomodate a 10W Welch Allyn xenon short arc lamp, a metal reflector, the WA ballast required to ignite the lamp, and it has a special holder for 8 AA NiMH cells to power it. 

It looks like a normal Mag...

The switch works like a normal Mag...

People's reactions to that thing aren't exactly what you'd expect from a normal Mag... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif

It's probably one of the most compact HIDs you can get, short of the MiniHID (also by the same team who brought you the Mag2HID) which runs off 4 CR123 batteries. I prefer the Mag2HID because it's rechargeable and the fun never needs to end.


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## lotsalumens (Jan 30, 2005)

Kevin,

Wow a mag with an arc bulb? Who makes them? I'd love to see the site if there is one.

Regarding your question about UV, my guess would be that at only 10w it's not going to be a problem....unless you intend to stare into the arc at close range for a bit. Perhaps the manufacturer can tell you more.


cfb


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## KevinL (Jan 31, 2005)

It's a third party conversion found here on CPF.. (of course definitely not endorsed by Mag) here's the thread, unfortunately all have been sold out. We have a glass lens in front of it, hopefully that will help cut the UV radiation. 

Stare into it at close range....heh.. I think the visible light would do more damage, we're talking about 500 lumens worth of power here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## java_man (Jan 31, 2005)

POG (plain old glass) will stop the harmfull UVB rays...

It wont protect your eyes from BAL (bright *** light) however /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


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## Luna (Jan 31, 2005)

Yeah, regular glass will filter the far UV. Quartz however will let it pass.


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## MaxaBaker (Jan 31, 2005)

That's interesting. I wonder why POG dosn't allow UV to get through but quarts does /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Will do a search unless anyone knows


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## java_man (Jan 31, 2005)

There are many types of optical glass and the UV transmission depends on the formulation. Plain ol glass...soda-lime or float glass...cuts off the UV real sharp at about 340 NM. There are special formulations used in tanning bulbs that cut off at shorter wavelenghts. 
Pure quartz is highly transparent, it will even pass the real hard UVC rays that generate ozone and kill germs.


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## KevinL (Feb 1, 2005)

Hmm.. what about UCL glass /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif The Mag2HID ships with UCLs. 

Borofloat is borosilicate (Pyrex equivalent), both available from Flashlightlens.com.


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## lotsalumens (Feb 1, 2005)

Aviation lamp update: 

Well I was able to purchase the seller's remaining stock of these short arc aviation lamps. I wanted to have some spares for two reasons: First the bulbs are not replaceable and short arcs are supposed to have shorter lives than other types of HID bulbs. Good to have spares. Secondly I wanted to try retrofitting one with a lower wattage bulb, perhaps an HMI or short arc in the 100-200w range (no air blower required & more portable). The reflectors in these lamps alone were worth the price, and they have a perfectly smooth mirror finish with no defects, ridges, etc . With a few more lamps coming I decided that the one on hand was the one I would retrofit, so yesterday I very carefully took it apart and removed the bulb. Since the bulb was epoxied in I had to break it unfortunately, but wrapping it in many layers of heavy cloth I was able to do so quite safely. The cold pressure in these lamps is not nearly as high as the hot operating pressure. 

Last night I tried positioning an automotive HID bulb in the reflector and was pleased to see that it casts quite a nice tight beam with minimal spill. With a 50w boost on the bulb I could see the beam itself in our living room. Putting on the front piece (glass window etc pictured above) cut the side spill down to almost nothing, and did not reduce the intensity of the beam much at all and did not create shadows. Surprising since it places the holder for the old short arc bulb right in the center of the beam, as well as the port for the blower on the side. It makes sense though when you consider how an ellipsoidal reflector focuses light. Anyway having now tried out one of the reflectors I can hardly imagine what the beam must be like with the original 750w short arc in place. I am still looking for power supplies and have some ideas on how to build one. I will post pictures and updates for anyone interested as this progresses!


cfb


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## Azecos (Feb 1, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## MaxaBaker (Feb 1, 2005)

I can't wait. Eventually we gotta see a 750watter in there though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## lotsalumens (Feb 1, 2005)

I agree. It's just gotta happen!


cfb


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## lotsalumens (Feb 3, 2005)

Update: I just ordered a 200w Osram HSD bulb as well as ballast and base. I plan to use this in the "low powered" portable version of the aviation lamp.

For the full powered version I am thinking of buying one of those little 115v stick welders on ebay. They sell for well under $100. I can build a full wave bridge rectifier for the output sing some high current diodes, and then with some filter caps I'll have a nice high current DC supply. The next thing to work out will be the high volage starting pulse, but I think I can rig something up. None of this will be portable unfortunately, but it should at least get the lamp running.


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## MaxaBaker (Feb 3, 2005)

Well, getting it running is the first step!!!!


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## java_man (Feb 3, 2005)

Your 200W HID will nearly equal output of the 750 xenon and if you get it centered well I think it would blow away anything thats been tested at the shootouts

PS dont forget your sunscreen and welding goggles !


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## Zelandeth (Feb 3, 2005)

Here's a thought - the actual current source, hmm, not sure about that.

If you've got a source would a simple resistive ballast work (for testing anyway), i.e. a couple of radiant electric heaters or something?

Again, still no help with the multiple kV needed to start it either...just thought that might be worth mentioning.


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## lotsalumens (Feb 3, 2005)

Thanks very much for the suggestion. I have used radiant heaters as well as a toaster as ballasts for some of my antique street arc lamps (some have built in ballasts) and they can work quite well. However the requirements of that type of lamp are a bit different since they only need about 6 amps at 80+ volts or so. For this aviation lamp you need something that will step down 115v to about 18-20v at a walloping 40 amperes. I read somewhere that underpowering a xenon arc can damage the bulb since it sputters material off the electrodes (?) so I want to be in the ballpark in terms of current. I think an arc welder may be the ticket since the voltage & current are almost exactly what are required. Only drawback is that the little ones I am looking at typically have a 10% duty cycle, but some forced air cooling could extend that....not that you'd want to turn this light on for extended periods. Anyway the saga continues. The last few of these lamps arrived today so I've got some experimenting to do.

cfb


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## Draco_Americanus (Feb 4, 2005)

I don't supose you would be willing to sell one of your spare units? what I could realy use is a good reflector.

I am not shure if running a short arc at lower power shortens it's life like it does with metal halide type lamps. The MaxaBeam runs their bulb at a low power mode or a normal mode, Their tech told Me high power mode shortens the bulbs life while the other modes lengthn it. 

also the 10watt hid buld is not a short arc lamp in the true scence of the word, it runs on AC and has metal salts just like their bigger brothers. I would realy like to get a naked 10 watt bulb and use My own reflector, the ones I have found have a cemented in reflector and front glass.


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## lotsalumens (Feb 4, 2005)

Draco,

I might think of selling one at some point, but just not quite yet. I want to see if my full power supply project works out, and also how the lower wattage HMI version goes. I just saved your username into my notepad so if I do decide to sell one I'll let you know. If you need something immediately you might look at these:

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/displayproduct.cfm?productID=1412&search=1

They also have some big parabolic reflectors, and there are probably other options too if you do some searching.

cfb


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## lotsalumens (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi everyone!

Well I am still working on a power supply for the full 750w short arc aviation lamp and have some parts coming. A 70amp DC inverter welder will hopefully be the current source (only 8lbs!). 

Here is an interesting little test I did to try out one of the aviation lamp reflectors. In the photos you'll see it right next to a Thor which helps give it some scale. Anyway I tried putting a 35w HID bulb in the aviation lamp and comparing it to a Thor running a 50w HID lamp. The aviation lamp had almost no side spill and put just about all of its light into the spot (image on the right). To the naked eye it appeared brighter and my wife picked it out independently as well. The photo however shows the Thor hotspot to be a tad brighter. Still this shows the power of a really good reflector. 

cfb







Left Thor 50w HID..........................Right Aviation lamp with 35w HID


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## MaxaBaker (Feb 14, 2005)

Very cool. Thank you!!! Pretty exciting. Now, the beam should look even better with a 750watt XSA in it............


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## lotsalumens (Feb 14, 2005)

Well it sure is fun fooling around with this stuff. It will be interesting to see the 50w Thor vs. 750w XSA test! 

Forgot to mention that I am also going to try an experiment with a 200w HMI bulb. I am just waiting for the ballast to arrive. The arc is not as concentrated as in a short arc, but the bulbs and ballasts are plentiful and relatively inexpensive by comparison.

cfb


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## MaxaBaker (Feb 14, 2005)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## Raybo (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm right with you Baker.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## lotsalumens (Feb 22, 2005)

Hi everyone!

Well the little 70 amp inverter welder that will hopefully power this aviation lamp arrived yesterday. It is amazingly small and light. Smaller than a battery booster and probably under 10lbs, yet with a continuously variable 0-70amp DC output. Duty cycle at 40amps is 100% which is perfect. I still need to build an igniter circuit and stuff however.

The fellow who sold me these lamps said that he dug up two more if anyone is interested. Bear in mind that aside from requiring a blower for air cooling and a complicated power supply, there are some real hazards to these types of lamps which include serious eye damage if you view the arc, an explosion hazard (1,400 degree quartz tube at 180psi), and the danger of the high voltage igniter circuit. Still it would be great to compare notes with someone else trying to power one of these.

Alternately they have a super nice reflector if you remove the bulb. Anyway if anyone is interested send me a private message and I will forward the seller's email address. I don't want to post it here since he'll get a bunch of spam.


cfb


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## MaxaBaker (Feb 22, 2005)

That's awsome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


Now, you get the ignitor done........hook everything up.................click..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/str.gif


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