# NiteCore Defender Infinity - titan for the masses?



## iocheretyanny (Nov 2, 2007)

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=170991


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## MikeLip (Nov 2, 2007)

Very cool!


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## iocheretyanny (Nov 2, 2007)

If this light works as advertized, it is pretty incredible. 
Fenix engineers may be lacking lots of sleep soon in trying to counter...


Knurling makes it kinda looks like a HDS....


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## Fallingwater (Nov 2, 2007)

Very nice!
Oh, and this puts to rest the theory that the Titan costs so much because the interface took astronomical amounts of money to research.


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## skalomax (Nov 2, 2007)

I won... :twothumbs


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## Patriot (Nov 2, 2007)

I saw that!! Nice snag skalomax. You deserve it. :thumbsup:


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## Bushman5 (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm in!! :thumbsup: 

FINALLY a "AA" powered tactical light! :twothumbs no more exploding CR123's to stress about! :thumbsdow

I cant wait to see their RAIDFORCE big lights! 1500 lumens!


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## Fallingwater (Nov 2, 2007)

skalomax said:


> I won


Let us know how it is! When will you receive it?


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## [email protected] (Nov 2, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> Very nice!
> Oh, and this puts to rest the theory that the Titan costs so much because the interface took astronomical amounts of money to research.



OT
That sounds a bit premature, both implementation and function are different, not to mention location... 
I think there is enough said about the price of the Titan and why it is what it is already, let's keep this thread focussed on the Defender ok? :thanks:


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## skalomax (Nov 2, 2007)

Patriot36 said:


> I saw that!! Nice snag skalomax. You deserve it. :thumbsup:


 
Thanks.

I will let you all know when I receive It, I'm looking forward to It.


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## Bushman5 (Nov 2, 2007)

^ Congrats! nice snag! :twothumbs


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## Fallingwater (Nov 3, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> OT
> That sounds a bit premature, both implementation and function are different, not to mention location...
> I think there is enough said about the price of the Titan and why it is what it is already, let's keep this thread focussed on the Defender ok? :thanks:


Yes, you're right. Sorry about that. 

Snagged one. I'm not particularly crazy about the infinite setting thing, but the super-regulated output from LSD NiMH cells is what bought me.


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## manoloco (Nov 3, 2007)

for me what did it is the supposedly non complicated ui within a "tactical" package and variable brightness (with no presets)

it seems it should work as advertised (dont see why not), what dodges me a bit are the overall specs and the reliability (considering the price point), but we will soon see, maybe it will be worthy of praise


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## Phaetos (Nov 3, 2007)

Sounds like a nice light. Since I'm always late to the game, I will wait around for those other special post numbers and snag one there.


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## sims2k (Nov 3, 2007)

I am buying one too...The no preset output is a big plus for me.


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## clintb (Nov 3, 2007)

Whoa, too cool. I went for one of those.


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## L.E.D. (Nov 3, 2007)

Just when some are saying "the AA form factor will go no further now"... LOL

NICE light, definitely gonna need one. Great buy -under $500.00-!


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## WadeF (Nov 3, 2007)

Might as well snag one.


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## scottaw (Nov 3, 2007)

What the heck, just bought 3 L1's in 4 days, why not a cheapie?


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## swxb12 (Nov 3, 2007)

Looks like an AA battery Novatac with Gatlight variable brightness function. Nice!


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## holeymoley (Nov 3, 2007)

I have no willpower.


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## Bushman5 (Nov 3, 2007)

^ me either.... :mecry:


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## paulr (Nov 3, 2007)

I squeaked in at the $40 price. It looks like a pretty nice AA light but really, I see no resemblance at all between this and a Titan.


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 3, 2007)

I didn't quite get how the variable brightness works. I'll go back and re read the thread, but I'm not expecting an analog dial like on the Gatlight or the Titan. More of a digital ramping like that of the LiteFlux 2-5. Still nonetheless I think $50 (at the time of this posting) is worth the gamble for a forward clickie AA light. :twothumbs  

(oh god this month just started and I'm already reaching the end of my flashlight, etc. budget)


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## Patriot (Nov 3, 2007)

skalomax said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I will let you all know when I receive It, I'm looking forward to It.


 
I ordered one too at $50. It's looks like a great little light even at that price.


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## Oddjob (Nov 3, 2007)

Took the plunge at $50. A "tactical" AA with those specs was hard to resist even if only to take advantage of the special price. Hope this one is a winner!


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## gunga (Nov 3, 2007)

I find it interesting that 8 new people (first post) signed up for the light (about 10%). Seems a bit odd...

While I'm happy I got in at $40, I think this hard-sell, free for the nth person stuff is a pain and not really needed. Sure, I'd love to win one, but I think it would better just to have a set price.

Also, I am a little worried this will be another Rexlight. Lots of broken promises and disappointed people. I told myself never to get in on another pre-buy (Zebra light won a lot of points for that), but it's hard to resist.

Still, if it lives up to the hype, it will be pretty sweet.

NOt sure about that alkaline regulation graph tho...


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## Marduke (Nov 3, 2007)

Must.....resist.....temptation......


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## swxb12 (Nov 3, 2007)

gunga said:


> NOt sure about that alkaline regulation graph tho...



"(*NOTICE:* Please be noted that we are under the work of improving the circuit design now, the output data and runtime pictures below are based on testing results of the previous samples at the present, there might be of slight differences between them and those of the mass production. )"

I agree, the graphs show an insane amount of lumens for an AA battery, regulated for quite a while too. Hmm..


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## paulr (Nov 3, 2007)

gunga said:


> I find it interesting that 8 new people (first post) signed up for the light (about 10%). Seems a bit odd...
> 
> While I'm happy I got in at $40, I think this hard-sell, free for the nth person stuff is a pain and not really needed. Sure, I'd love to win one, but I think it would better just to have a set price.
> 
> ...


I suspect some of the new registrants are folks trying to buy multiple lights. And yeah, the runtime graphs and lumen claims, especially the alkaline ones, look overoptimistic. They say there's no time limit for those promotional prices once you've landed the post number, so I'm going to sit back a little before sending $$$. I think you are right that the price games are unnecessary, but the way they did it doesn't seem too obnoxious so I'll just chalk it up to someone trying something new to see what happens. I did check out their web site which says about the same stuff as in the thread about the light. I've for various reasons gotten to dislike Fenix so having alternatives is good.


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## Dark Matter (Nov 3, 2007)

I got excited and caved in on the $50 preorder after seeing the specs on this single AA light. 

I don't recall seeing any other single AA lights on the market with a Q5 bin let alone with infinite brightness adjustment.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Nov 3, 2007)

I could hardly believe this light. Great cell versatility, output, UI, material, and price. How cool! :thumbsup:

Now all I have to wonder about is the actual output, beam shape and quality, and tint.


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## swxb12 (Nov 3, 2007)

Apparently Fenix isn't the most advanced? We shall see...


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## KeeperSD (Nov 3, 2007)

i just ordered one as well, i was going to try and wait for the 101st post but am going out shortly so decided to just bite the bullet and get one. I have been looking for a light in this size for a while. Hopefully it lives up to expectation.


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 3, 2007)

As for beam shape it looks like a light op reflector. Likely very similar to Fenix, Jetbeam, Rexlight, DexLight, Ultra/Super/Smart-Fire. Not much innovation there. I hope to find a AA Cree with an optic someday.

Olight has some Q5's 
Jetbeam is shipping Q4's
Fenix has Q5's as well I think, not sure if they're shipped yet.
So there are other Q5's. And I'm not sure when these NiteCores will be shipping.

I'm more interested in the UI. I don't have a multi mode AA with a UI that is to my liking ...other than my Photon Proton, but that can't touch a cree's efficiency and output.
I have a C-LE, MkIIx, Rexlight, and a Fenix. None have earned its place in my pocket.

I figure for $50 its worth the gamble. Even though I promised myself I'd stop buying so many small lights and save money for some nicer big'uns.


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## Marduke (Nov 3, 2007)

PhantomPhoton said:


> So there are other Q5's. And I'm not sure when these NiteCores will be shipping.



They are claiming late November ship date, so most will have it before Christmas.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Nov 3, 2007)

PhantomPhoton said:


> I didn't quite get how the variable brightness works.


 
Me neither. From what I gather it is a two stage light that has infinite settings from which you can choose from. Is this correct? 
I have to say the light itself looks fantastic! Looks like the combination of the HDS mixed with a Jetbeam. 
This light could be a real killer if it works out as planned. Would put some of the top dogs on their heels that's for sure.


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## NoFair (Nov 3, 2007)

I understood it as having a dimmer; used by twisting the bezel and a on-off forward clickie tailcap.

I ordered one, if it is great I'll keep it, if it is good I'll give it away as a gift and if it is bad I'll return it:naughty:

Looks nice and it isn't too expensive either. 

Sverre


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## KevinL (Nov 3, 2007)

OK, this light reads like my dream wishlist. Has someone been following me around 

(their comments from their specification sheet indicated by #, my comments indicated by - )

# Made from military grade aluminum alloy, really strong;
- I hope it's CNC'ed from solid alu, not cast from powdered

# Compact size and light weight, suitable for EDC (every day carry);
- Yes please

# Mil-Spec Type III Hard Anodized finish;
- Yes please

# Resistance to impact by dropping according to US MIL-STD-810F;
- Yes please (even other famous manufacturers don't certify to this)

# Waterproof to IPX-8 standard;
- Yes please (IPX-8 will end all that nonsense about 'is it dunk proof')

# Broad-voltage fully-regulated circuit, compatible with kinds of batteries;
# Li-ion battery identified and low-voltage alarming system;
- Yes please, AA, Li-ion, NiMH, Eneloop, 'safe' chemistries or high power chemistries instead of me having to find exotic 18650s

# Unique Infinitely Variable Digital-controlled Brightness System;
- I like. I HATE click sequence lights. Me stupid, me turn dial, light become bright, understand?  (which is why I am a HUGE fan of the SF U2)

# Two-stage memory function, can be switched easily;
- We'll see about that, I need more info, but not a big issue

# Built in CREE Q5 WC high efficiency LED (Light Emitting Diodes);
# Maximum output 190 lumens;
- 'bout time someone did something with these Cree thingies 

# Prominent runtime;
- Better phrased as 'long runtime', but it'll do

# Tactical forward clickies switch;
- Forward clickie - I don't like the reverse clickies.. I MUST have my forward clickie just like my U2

# Anti-rolling rugged design;
# Metal reflector;
- Useful

# Impact-resistant optical lens with Dual-CoatingTM technique;
- I really like this dual coating concept with an outer synthetic diamond coat for ruggedness and the inner AR/AG coat. We have typically followed the coating system used for camera filters, which is AR/AG on both sides, however remember that camera filters are used for taking light IN. The reason why they are coated on both sides is to prevent external reflections, AND internal reflections caused by light reflecting off the lens/camera interior. With flashlights, you only need to worry about internal reflections. Once the light makes it out into the big wide world it ain't likely to come back. 

# Tactical lanyards braided with military grade 550 parachute-cord and glow-in-dark cord ends. 
- Cool but I can make my own lanyards.. nevertheless a freebie is useful



So basically it's got ALL the essentials I want, and none the fluff (SOS, strobe, WTF) that I don't. 

I like it already.


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## paulr (Nov 3, 2007)

KevinL, good analysis. I could do without the tactical pretentions (where's the grip ring?) and the bezel crenellations but that's a style preference thing. I'm reserving judgement on the UI since any time I see the word "memory" in the description of a flashlight, that's a red flag. I don't care much about forward vs reverse clickie beyond not wanting any multi-click interfaces. So I'd like to know how this light accomplishes dual levels. I can think of some setups consistent with the description that would be pretty bad, but I'll wait and see.


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## KevinL (Nov 3, 2007)

It's nice that someone's finally built the EDC I want at a price point I can afford. We were discussing the Titan in another thread, and I was thinking that firstly, the Titan is a limited edition, secondly it's $500, and thirdly I'm too chicken to mar a sweet $500 titanium light by hanging it on the keyring. 

The *SAME* set of time-honored keys which has sat on the ring for more than a decade (close to 12, 13 years) has destroyed three Solitaires, a couple of Photons, a Fenix L1P, a HDS B60, an E1e/KL1, and then some. I swear I need to find what the unobtanium keys are made of and then make lights out of that stuff. The keys look the same as the day I put them on, the lights have all come out on the losing end. I ain't adding a Titan to their kill list. 

Oh, and add a few cellphones as well. If I put the phone in the pocket the keys eat it for breakfast. 

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that the keys WILL destroy lights, so I want something a bit more affordable to join them on the ring. 

As I was recently overheard griping about my other money-sucking hobby (high end digital SLRs and all that go with them), the camera manufacturers need to start giving me more of WHAT I NEED, and LESS of what I DON'T. (read: quit the megapixel race, 12.7 is fine with me, I want full frame, more fps, better ISO performance and noise handling, better microlenses, better AF, etc.etc.)


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## holeymoley (Nov 3, 2007)

gunga said:


> I find it interesting that 8 new people (first post) signed up for the light (about 10%). Seems a bit odd...
> 
> While I'm happy I got in at $40, I think this hard-sell, free for the nth person stuff is a pain and not really needed. Sure, I'd love to win one, but I think it would better just to have a set price.
> 
> ...



Gunga,
I signed up to buy one because I have not had the urge to purchase anything on the Marketplace forums yet. As you can see I have been poking around here for a little while though. 

What happened with the Rexlight? I had the impression that people really liked that light?


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## andyz (Nov 3, 2007)

The infinate adjustment is what sold me, I like to wake up during the night and just switch to an ultra low level without going through all the other levels including crappy sos etc. I'm hoping the two stage memory is something like a toggle to a preset high if needed without adjusting the bezel brightness, will have to wait and see


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## Fallingwater (Nov 3, 2007)

As far as I understand, the memory function blah-blah is basically a fancy way of saying "turn bezel to get brightness you want, use switch to turn on and off. It'll remember its position because - obviously - the bezel will still be in its original position when you cycle it."



gunga said:


> I find it interesting that 8 new people (first post) signed up for the light (about 10%). Seems a bit odd...


One is a pal of mine. I'll make a flashlight enthusiast out of him yet. 



> While I'm happy I got in at $40, I think this hard-sell, free for the nth person stuff is a pain and not really needed. Sure, I'd love to win one, but I think it would better just to have a set price.


I don't have anything against this sort of promotion, but it's got to be done right. Counting non-buy posts among the ones that decide for the discount level doesn't make much sense.

Oh well. Ten bucks more won't kill me...



> Also, I am a little worried this will be another Rexlight. Lots of broken promises and disappointed people


What happened with the Rexlight?



> NOt sure about that alkaline regulation graph tho...


I don't much care about the alkaline graph.
Using alkalines in a light that draws (I presume) the thick end of three amps from its AA cell doesn't look very smart to me.
And if you never use it at the maximum level you might as well buy a dimmer, cheaper, simpler light to begin with.
I dunno, buying a light like this and never using it at its maximum level sounds to me like buying a Porsche and only ever using it on the highway under the speed limits.

The Eneloop graph, on the other hand, seems fantastic. If it proves to be true the regulation in this flashilght must be very good indeed.
Looking forward to test it thoroughly...


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## paulr (Nov 3, 2007)

Fallingwater, my concern with the memory issue is that the high and low levels can be set independently of one another. In that case it can't refer to the bezel setting since the bezel can't be in two places at the same time.

I don't care much about performance with alkalines either. The issue with the alkaline graph is that if it's wrong then the other graphs and claims are more likely to also be wrong. I'm still almost laughing out loud at the concept of 180 lumens coming out of a 1aa powered light for the claimed runtimes without several more iterations of led improvements. There is certainly lumen exaggeration going on there, likely even beyond the usual stunt of reading emitter lumens off of a led manufacturer spec sheet and presenting them as torch lumens.


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## Phaetos (Nov 3, 2007)

I'm determined to sit here and get that 201 post today.


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## liquidinfo (Nov 3, 2007)

Is the webpage still down? I cant see any of the images in that thread. Though I have a feeling its because of the damn firewall on this network . . .


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## Balcony12 (Nov 3, 2007)

KevinL I feel your pain on the DSLR front. I've finally come to the conclusion that my Canon 5D is the perfect camera, and I don't need anything bigger or flashier. You're right. 12.7mp and full-frame with low-noise high iso's.


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## coral_seas (Nov 3, 2007)

How easy it is to obtain our money! 
Just write a fantastic specification and make some image editing and you'll find enough flash light junkies (including myself) that send money to people that they have never heared of. 
- Hope to get the delivery soon ;-)


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## Fallingwater (Nov 3, 2007)

Coral_seas: you make a frighteningly good point.
This place has ruined me  some time ago I'd never have bought something without being 101% sure I'd get it.
Now I'm worried. Let's hope we haven't just thrown money in the toilet.


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## Steve-11 (Nov 3, 2007)

Well I went and ordered one.

It seems to have many great features. I don't doubt the lumens output is exaggerated, but that's ok. I do like the idea of a AA torch that allows different levels, without silly strobe and stuff, and 'tactical' switch. FENIX ARE YOU LISTENING!?!? :candle:

Now let's just hope Nitecore is not a Fly By Night company...


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## sledhead (Nov 3, 2007)

Time will tell. I ordered one, and I'm not a gambling person, but it seems like a winner! I hope HDS comes soon, I'm running out of flashlight money!(If that is possible)?


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## vetkaw63 (Nov 3, 2007)

I will try one. I hope they are what they say.
Mike


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## Daniel_sk (Nov 3, 2007)

I took one for 50$, but I am not sending PayPal yet... 
According to the first post, Selfbuilt and x2x3x2 will receive sample lights and will do reviews. Anyone knows when? I'd like to see a review before payment...

If it works as advertised - then good-bye Fenix L1D CE...


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## Impunitus (Nov 3, 2007)

KevinL said:


> snip... I swear I need to find what the unobtanium keys are made of and then make lights out of that stuff.


OT:
My couple of keys are most certainly made of nickel silver and so far the RAW NS is holding well next to them with only the tiniest of scratches (looks more like patina than scratches). I don't believe the GTLS insert will survive forever though.

Back on topic:
Decided to order one as well, but not sending PayPal just yet.

Cheers, Rok


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## zerafull (Nov 3, 2007)

i have buy one too,it's maybe the perfect flashlight, with 14500 AA cell !!!!

defender infinity is very beautiful name no ?

wow


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## maxilux (Nov 3, 2007)

Oh, thanks , i was wondering ???, this week no new flashlight brand that i never heared before and is better than all others, thanks a lot.


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## TCW 60 (Nov 3, 2007)

The description for the light sounds great. The only thing that stops me a little is that this is a unknown company and to prepay for it.


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## edc3 (Nov 3, 2007)

If it sounds too good to be true...it probably is.

But I bought one anyway. I just hope it approaches what they say it will do. I guess I won't know if I made the right decision until after it's reviewed. :sigh:


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## Diode (Nov 3, 2007)

zerafull said:


> defender infinity is very beautiful name no ?


I think the name could be improved. I suggest Super Ultra Mega Defender Infinity And Beyond, Tactical Edition. 

Don't get me started on the logo... I think it's fascist enough. Adding eagles, arrows, guns, or a swastikas would be overkill. 

And the light itself, it's almost perfect! Something tells me it's too good to be true. But my CPF side says send PP now.


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## nerdgineer (Nov 3, 2007)

Agree, it sounds great, but I'm willing to give up the discount in exchange for proof of its' reality from the early adopters. Good luck to you all...


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## edc3 (Nov 3, 2007)

Diode said:


> Don't get me started on the logo... I think it's fascist enough. Adding eagles, arrows, guns, or a swastikas would be overkill.



It does have an old Castle Wolfenstein feel to it.


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## Inferno (Nov 3, 2007)

Ah hell, I bit as well... but I am waiting before I send payment. This does sound like the perfect light (to me, at least) to replace my Fenix L1-P and Inova XO3-- although the Inova does have her place in the "improvised kuboton/hammer" catagory...

As for the alkaline runtime, I look at it like this: This light isn't your typical plastic Everready 2D-- and just as you wouldn't expect top notch performance from your Ferrari/Porsche/whatever on 87 octane fuel, why would you load your premiuim light with something that everyone else has in their Everready?


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## AFAustin (Nov 3, 2007)

Well, I'm one of the ones to take a chance, with an order already placed. However, I guess we would all feel a little better knowing something about this company (EDGE Tactical Light Co. Ltd.), that seemed, to me at least, to appear out of nowhere.

In the first post in the sales thread, the manufacturer says that TADGear is their first U.S. distributor, so I e-mailed Evan at TADGear, and asked if he would pretty please post in either this or the sales thread, and share whatever info. he can about the company. Hope he responds.


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## edc3 (Nov 3, 2007)

FWIW, their domain was registered in June, so it's not like they set it up the day before they posted...


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 3, 2007)

Holding back payment,I need to see a review first,as I dont have lots of dosh to give away!!!


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## koala (Nov 3, 2007)

I have started some questions here, post your inquiries there hopefully the company representative will answer.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=171022


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## AFAustin (Nov 3, 2007)

edc3, you raised perhaps the key point over in the sales thread---what is meant by "infinitely variable brightness" and "2-stage memory function": Does this light have a Titan-like dial-your-brightness feature, or is it simply that you can choose from an infinite number of brightness levels at which to set your two (2) levels?


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 3, 2007)

I was definitely skeptical, but as I've mentioned before I'll bet $50. I've bet before in the past and been disappointed, so I figure my luck has got to have a lower boundary somewhere. :tinfoil:
The paypal account was a new account, so that make me raise an eyebrow. Good thinking contacting TAD and asking for confirmation of credentials. I also believe that CPFM wouldn't just give out a manufacturer title to anyone who threw money Sasha's way.

I think that this thread title is tremendously misleading. Titan for the masses... BS! 
I believe it will have a ramping brightness adjustment like in the LiteFlux. I already have 2 LF, I want this one because its a Forward Clickie w/ AA. I hope this is worth the hype.


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## KevinL (Nov 3, 2007)

Balcony12: Amen to that  I've owned the 1-series before.. I find they don't offer enough value to me for what they cost, so I sold mine. The 5D is perfect, though. Again, more of what I need.....less of what I don't.

As for this new light and mfg: yeah I'm treating it as something of a bet as well. Good call to verify all the references. I'm waiting till the initial reviews come in too, or at least that the reviewers confirmed they got the lights. 

Worst come to worst, after Christmas, I'll just drop Paypal a note about product not received 

I didn't win the $30m jackpot I and a friend bought tickets for recently. I'm not usually a betting guy but I figure once or twice a year on small amounts.. yeah, my luck's gotta hold up somewhere..


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## koala (Nov 3, 2007)

These are two nice light if you miss out the discount...

Hey Hey Look Look click here!

:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8752

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8751

:naughty::naughty::naughty:


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## FASTCAR (Nov 3, 2007)

40 bucks for a small "240" lumen quality military spec light with a dimmer......who would have thought.Even 1/2 the listed lumens is a steal in my book!

Im in for one for sure.

The asians are putting more and more nice lights out daily.


:twothumbs

Can't wait to review it !

I think it is fantastic when a new light comes out and a MFG is nice enough to reward us with a special price !!


Hats off to these guys.


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## sgtgeo (Nov 3, 2007)

I thought about it but had too many doubts about a infinatly adjustable brightness light being announced 2 days after the TITANS started arriving.

If it is a scam the timing is perfect

I'll wait for the reviews and if the first version is all is says I'll gladly pay $79 or wait for version 2.0 which will be better, brighter, possibly cheaper


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## fnmag (Nov 3, 2007)

Hmmmmm....


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## FASTCAR (Nov 3, 2007)

Not very nice to call them a scam.


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## Fallingwater (Nov 3, 2007)

AFAustin said:


> edc3, you raised perhaps the key point over in the sales thread---what is meant by "infinitely variable brightness" and "2-stage memory function": Does this light have a Titan-like dial-your-brightness feature, or is it simply that you can choose from an infinite number of brightness levels at which to set your two (2) levels?


Well, I for one would be happier with the infinite number at which to set your two levels...
Can't be too hard to set them (I'm thinking maybe rotate bezel - press switch for 2 seconds?), and then you get both the good points of a clicky level selection AND of the infinitely variable selection too.
But this is all speculation, of course. Actual, hard facts will have to wait for the reviews.

As for it being a scam just because it's been announced right after the Titan, well, that doesn't sound like a good argument to me.

If I were to market a light that worked like a far more famous, expensive and exclusive one, I too would wait until the other one was just launched, to capitalize on the "just as good but costs a tenth" factor and on the newly-generated thirst for the one feature that sets them apart from the rest.


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## sgtgeo (Nov 3, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Not very nice to call them a scam.



I said "IF", cautious, not accusatory


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## luminata (Nov 3, 2007)

Thanx for the heads up Koala

You cant get much closer in looks than those DX lights you linked . It amazes me there is a cheaper "knockoff" of a light that hasn't even hit the market yet. I think this is a first even for China . Or, maybe it's the same light ,sure looks it from most angles. I am wondering if the UI is the same as the defender, if so It seems anything but simple to me after reading the DX posted comments about the product. 

What to do now?


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## ChadPhelps (Nov 3, 2007)

koala said:


> These are two nice light if you miss out the discount...
> 
> Hey Hey Look Look click here!
> 
> ...



Sure does look similar and the description is similar as well. Good find.


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## Fallingwater (Nov 3, 2007)

I say let's give the manufacturers a chance. 
If they say "infinitely variable", it's a fair bet the light will be infinitely variable, not 20-mode. They don't strike me as people who'd cobble together a flashlight that imitates a more famous one, then wildly overstate its capabilities just to sell a bunch to some suckers on an enthusiast forum.
If the looks of that light are anything to go by, they seem to know what they're talking about.

Let's not assume they are guilty until proven otherwise.


----------



## koala (Nov 3, 2007)

Hey,

I believe that the DX flashlight don't have the rotating bezel. The links I posted leads to flashlight with dead bezels.

It would be nice if they could show us a video of the flashlight in action. It seems it's going to reviewers soon so we'll wait and see.

There is nothing wrong to be alert and cautious but it is not the right to start judging someone/a company like NiteCore at this time. Only time will tell. I do really hope that it is as awesome as it's advertise, can't wait to get my paws on them.

Vincent.


----------



## Greta (Nov 3, 2007)

I think this is an appropriate piece of trivia for this thread... 

I was looking for something this afternoon and ran across this bit of info about P.T. Barnum. Be sure to read the whole thing... my guess is that you'll all be as surprised as I was. It will then be up to each of you to decide how to apply it as it relates to this thread and topic...


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 3, 2007)

Sasha said:


> I think this is an appropriate piece of trivia for this thread...
> 
> I was looking for something this afternoon and ran across this bit of info about P.T. Barnum. Be sure to read the whole thing... my guess is that you'll all be as surprised as I was. It will then be up to each of you to decide how to apply it as it relates to this thread and topic...



What does the Wizard of Oz have to do with the NiteCore Defender Infinity? Perhaps you can quote what you found at the end. A little confused here.


----------



## IcantC (Nov 3, 2007)

Seems good... Almost too good. Waiting for some real beamshots or reviews or something. I will buy one if it is indeed real and gets good reviews. Interesting DX links there Koala. Hmmmm...




swxb12 said:


> What does the Wizard of Oz have to do with the NiteCore Defender Infinity? Perhaps you can quote what you found at the end. A little confused here.



Funny you missed it... 
*There's a sucker born every minute*


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 3, 2007)

IcantC said:


> Seems good... Almost too good. Waiting for some real beamshots or reviews or something. I will buy one if it is indeed real and gets good reviews. Interesting DX links there Koala. Hmmmm...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was hoping that wasn't the case. It's one thing to caution people on paying for something unproven, it's another to call them suckers. Not very nice at all. Agree?


----------



## KevinL (Nov 3, 2007)

Sasha said:


> I think this is an appropriate piece of trivia for this thread...
> 
> I was looking for something this afternoon and ran across this bit of info about P.T. Barnum. Be sure to read the whole thing... my guess is that you'll all be as surprised as I was. It will then be up to each of you to decide how to apply it as it relates to this thread and topic...



Good quote.. I think people need to be informed, but they should also come to their own decision. 

It's an adventure, and sometimes, just some rare times, I think we need to take a chance on it..  (again, decision left to the individual)

I've been burned for larger amounts dealing with supposedly reputable brick and mortar stores, so I'll just treat it as a gamble and hopefully I'll get a nice light out of it. 

If not.. well, I've been through worse, I'll live.....


----------



## IcantC (Nov 3, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> I was hoping that wasn't the case. It's one thing to caution people on paying for something unproven, it's another to call them suckers. Not very nice at all. Agree?



Haha yes I agree buddy, I just merely commented on what I got from the article .

Just would hate to see many CF'ers be scammed. I just hope it is legit as I want one too.


----------



## Greta (Nov 3, 2007)

Sasha said:


> I think this is an appropriate piece of trivia for this thread...
> 
> I was looking for something this afternoon and ran across this bit of info about P.T. Barnum.* Be sure to read the whole thing...* my guess is that you'll all be as surprised as I was. It will then be up to each of you to decide how to apply it as it relates to this thread and topic...


 
Guess you missed the now emphasized in red part of my post... 'cuz if you'd done that, you wouldn't have missed the part in my link that says...

_"__However, when Barnum's __biographer__ tried to track down when Barnum had uttered this phrase, all of Barnum's friends and acquaintances told him it was out of character. Barnum's __credo__ was more along the lines of "there's a customer born every minute" – he wanted to find ways to draw new customers in all the time because __competition__ was fierce and people bored easily."_

Assumptions.... and not bothering to read or follow instructions... the downfall of this world, no doubt.... :shakehead


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 3, 2007)

Sasha said:


> Guess you missed the now emphasized in red part of my post... 'cuz if you'd done that, you wouldn't have missed the part in my link that says...
> 
> _"__However, when Barnum's __biographer__ tried to track down when Barnum had uttered this phrase, all of Barnum's friends and acquaintances told him it was out of character. Barnum's __credo__ was more along the lines of "there's a customer born every minute" – he wanted to find ways to draw new customers in all the time because __competition__ was fierce and people bored easily."_
> 
> Assumptions.... and not bothering to read or follow instructions... the downfall of this world, no doubt.... :shakehead



Thanks for clarifying, but it there really a need for all this at the end? I don't believe I have anything personal against you as a person, Sasha.


----------



## Greta (Nov 3, 2007)

> ... but it there really a need for all this at the end?...


 
Yeah... there is... obviously... as no further clarification would have been necessary if my post had actually be read in it's entirety and the directions followed... agreed?


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 3, 2007)

Sasha said:


> Yeah... there is... obviously... as no further clarification would have been necessary if my post had actually be read in it's entirety and the directions followed... agreed?



I guess I should have asked for clarification of your original PT post in a nicer fashion, then.


----------



## Greta (Nov 3, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> I guess I should have asked for clarification of your original PT post in a nicer fashion, then.


 
... or just simply read the text in the link that I so conveniently provided for you...


----------



## Phaetos (Nov 3, 2007)

Or maybe the full quote should be put here "there's a sucker born every minute .. and two to take 'em". Puts it in a different perspective.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 3, 2007)

Just wondering, why do the mods refrain us from cross-discussing with regards to the SureFire Titan? It seems perfectly fine to me since (on paper) both these lights have similar form factor and functionality. Costs are relative depending on the people buying/paying anyway.

I don't see any mods taking note when users cross-discussing with Fenix/other lights? Does CPF have some sort of links with SureFire?


----------



## Dobbler (Nov 3, 2007)

KevinL said:


> Balcony12: Amen to that  I've owned the 1-series before.. I find they don't offer enough value to me for what they cost, so I sold mine. The 5D is perfect, though. Again, more of what I need.....less of what I don't.
> 
> As for this new light and mfg: yeah I'm treating it as something of a bet as well. Good call to verify all the references. I'm waiting till the initial reviews come in too, or at least that the reviewers confirmed they got the lights.
> 
> ...



Owned three 1-series and currently a 5D (among other Canon D bodies) and the one thing the 1-series has that no others do is freeking 45pf AF. NONE of the non 1-series Canon's have good enough AF.


----------



## KevinL (Nov 3, 2007)

Dobbler said:


> Owned three 1-series and currently a 5D (among other Canon D bodies) and the one thing the 1-series has that no others do is freeking 45pf AF. NONE of the non 1-series Canon's have good enough AF.



AreaAF turned out to be a liability in the operating conditions in which I work due to a design limitation (no, it is not an operator limitation, especially when none other than Chuck Westfall has spoken). Nevertheless I won't argue this point with you - I am one of the few users who actually ran into this limitation. Most 1-series owners never do, and that's a good thing.


----------



## Greta (Nov 3, 2007)

> Just wondering, why do the mods refrain us from cross-discussing with regards to the SureFire Titan?


 
I tried to read this entire thread but may have missed this part that you are referencing? Could you please provide me with a link or quote as to where this happened? Thank you...


----------



## TOOCOOL (Nov 3, 2007)

post #9 would be my guess Sasha


----------



## daveman (Nov 4, 2007)

180 lumens on a single alkaline AA?  This claim is guilty of fraudulent advertising untill proven innocent.


----------



## Phaetos (Nov 4, 2007)

Strange, I didn't take that post as a form of not allowing cross-referencing. I took it to mean that there are already about 10 threads about the Titan and it's features, pricing, size etc that bringing up that information again was counter-productive to finding out more about this NiteCore. Would that be a fair assumption?


----------



## Greta (Nov 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> OT
> That sounds a bit premature, both implementation and function are different, not to mention location...
> I think there is enough said about the price of the Titan and why it is what it is already, let's keep this thread focussed on the Defender ok? :thanks:


 


Phaetos said:


> Strange, I didn't take that post as a form of not allowing cross-referencing. I took it to mean that there are already about 10 threads about the Titan and it's features, pricing, size etc that bringing up that information again was counter-productive to finding out more about this NiteCore. Would that be a fair assumption?


 
Yep! That's pretty much how I took it too! :thinking: :shrug: :tinfoil:


----------



## nitecore (Nov 4, 2007)

KevinL said:


> Balcony12: Amen to that  I've owned the 1-series before.. I find they don't offer enough value to me for what they cost, so I sold mine. The 5D is perfect, though. Again, more of what I need.....less of what I don't.
> 
> As for this new light and mfg: yeah I'm treating it as something of a bet as well. Good call to verify all the references. I'm waiting till the initial reviews come in too, or at least that the reviewers confirmed they got the lights.
> 
> ...


 

1 series is perfect when the AF problem solved. I'm going to upgreat my 5D with 1Dmark3 soon...:thumbsup:

C.Lee
NiteCore & RiaidFire team
EDGE Tatical Light Co. Ltd.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 4, 2007)

daveman said:


> 180 lumens on a single alkaline AA? This claim is guilty of fraudulent advertising untill proven innocent.


If the graph is true, the Defender only outputs 180 lumens from an alkaline AA for an very short time. Ten minutes on, it's already at 160, and after 10 more it's at 120.
The NiMH graph is far more worthy of attention, IMO. If it can really output the best part of 180 lumens for about half an hour it's truly phenomenal performance.

We shall see.


----------



## AFAustin (Nov 4, 2007)

Well, at the very least, they were planning ahead (see Post #7): https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2188414#post2188414


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## FASTCAR (Nov 4, 2007)

"​"Just wondering, why do the mods refrain us from cross-discussing with regards to the SureFire Titan? It seems perfectly fine to me since (on paper) both these lights have similar form factor and functionality. Costs are relative depending on the people buying/paying anyway.

I don't see any mods taking note when users cross-discussing with Fenix/other lights? Does CPF have some sort of links with SureFire?"



Interesting.:shrug:

2x3x2 it seems if you have an opinion on a certain light I wont name..or the MFG that makes it..threads will get closed and people will attack you.

I would not even continue this..in fact i will PM you


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 4, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> "​"Just wondering, why do the mods refrain us from cross-discussing with regards to the SureFire Titan? It seems perfectly fine to me since (on paper) both these lights have similar form factor and functionality. Costs are relative depending on the people buying/paying anyway.
> 
> I don't see any mods taking note when users cross-discussing with Fenix/other lights? Does CPF have some sort of links with SureFire?"
> 
> ...



And adressed already. :ironic:


----------



## Rob187 (Nov 4, 2007)

I've placed an order. Let's see if it materializes before Christmas.

How do you supply the address you want the light shipped to.

Re-reading the MP thread, I think a confirmation email will be sent. Is that what others understand too?


----------



## TigerhawkT3 (Nov 4, 2007)

PhantomPhoton said:


> ...
> I also believe that CPFM wouldn't just give out a manufacturer title to anyone who threw money Sasha's way.
> ...


It's made crystal clear in the Rules that CPF isn't responsible for members' posts. Heck, CPF administration doesn't even always ban members who have BLATANTLY stolen OPM in huge prepays. The way you described it, "give out a manufacturer title to anyone who threw money Sasha's way," is basically the way it works.

Imagine if CPF adminstration WERE responsible for certifying the integrity of those with paid badges - this would put a huge burden on CPF management instead of on any dishonest sellers, where it belongs.


----------



## iocheretyanny (Nov 4, 2007)

Sasha said:


> Yep! That's pretty much how I took it too! :thinking: :shrug: :tinfoil:


Since some folks are questioning the title "NiteCore Defender Infinity - titan for the masses?" 
Here is the explanation: The only similiarity that I saw was the infinite brightness claim - that said - to me that is a big similiarity. So initially I did make that connection between the Titan and the Defender.

Does anyone want me to edit the title and remove the Titan reference?


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 4, 2007)

Nah, I think it's ok. 

TT3, we don't ban them so there is at least the possibility for interaction. :candle:


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 4, 2007)

Rob187 said:


> I've placed an order. Let's see if it materializes before Christmas.
> 
> How do you supply the address you want the light shipped to.
> 
> Re-reading the MP thread, I think a confirmation email will be sent. Is that what others understand too?


You should have been prompted to do that,when you checked out with paypal.Or if your address is paypal verified the seller ships to that address.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 4, 2007)

Sounds like a very nice torch. Regulation, brightness, forward clicky are the main bonuses for me, but there's a load. 

I'm a bit worried about the variable brightness - will it be a two stage digital ramping (UP/DOWN similar to the Liteflux) or a dial (similar to the Titan or Coast dimmer) do you think? 

If it is a dial, these things are very easy to get wrong, with it losing track of the top end (maximum brightness) or bottom end easily, if not done properly. Also intermittent contact may be a problem. I've had problems with variable Coast (LED Lenser) lights on both these points. 

If it's a two stage setting that wouldn't be as useful. 

I've reserved one although I may wait for a review before committing PP, even if I have to pay $80 in the end.


----------



## ankhbr (Nov 4, 2007)

Hope the manufacturer can come by and answer our doubts, either here or on the other thread about their lights.

I'd like to know more about the _Two-stage memory function_

And may the reviewers get their lights quick!


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 4, 2007)

I think EDGETAC,has done a good job on promoting his lights,and to go to all that trouble in marketing through to sales. IMO there has to be a product at the end of it,dont you think!.I just hope it turns out to be as good as he says.I'm in for one,once they begin to show up here.


----------



## BentHeadTX (Nov 4, 2007)

Sounds like the single AA light I have been looking for... all the goodies without the stuff I don't need. It looks great in the pictures and on paper but I need to see how it is constructed. 

Are the electronics potted/sealed with at least a brass contact for the positive connection? What does the negative connection look like and it is durable? How durable is the clickie switch? Is the HA-III durable or "Fenix HA-III"? 

I do like the light and the variable and/or 2-stage output. The charts look good on the Eneloop and hopefully I can reprogram the output to get 2 hours on max. The battle will be between the Proton Pro and the NiteCore as they will be available at the same time (maybe as is the case with LRI) 

We shall see


----------



## cat (Nov 4, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> I took one for 50$, but I am not sending PayPal yet...
> According to the first post, Selfbuilt and x2x3x2 will receive sample lights and will do reviews. Anyone knows when? I'd like to see a review before payment...



That is _really_ a good point. 
It's "perfect", except that it's 1 AA... well, as per people's comments re the output on 1 AA.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 4, 2007)

180 lumens regulated on 1 x AA NiMh, it's just what I've been looking for on that regard. Must be driving the Q5 at about 700mA? I'm just nervous about the quality attainable in a rotating dimmer switch, on a budget.


----------



## luminata (Nov 4, 2007)

With rumors of relations to Jetbeam , I am debating all weekend as to sending payment for the pre-order or waiting awhile and possibly losing the intro price. My gut is telling me there is noway with current technology to get 120+ lumens from 1.5volts , not for 50 mins for sure.
It seems though that at the future retail price of $80 bucks and with the lower cost of manufacturing in China that these could be close in quality to Novatacs and others in that price range. The pics seem to bear this out , they look very high end in fit and finish from the limited views available. As for real world output I am thinking with a AA you will be getting 90 lumens out the front ?
What is completely amazing to me is the number of jerks repeatedly posting in the pre-order thread with questions/comments and/or small talk thus taking away the chance for others to get a lower initial price on these. Even after post #301 was hit they continue to do it and wasting slots and forcing the price up for others. Either they arent taking the time to read the rules (which I admit are annoying and a PITA ) which explain that each post counts as a slot or they just dont give a rats A$%. 
The best ones are on the last page of the thread with things like ????? as the only content of the post. Really cool:thumbsup:


----------



## falconx (Nov 4, 2007)

luminata said:


> With rumors of relations to Jetbeam , I am debating all weekend as to sending payment for the pre-order or waiting awhile and possibly losing the intro price...




From here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=171022&page=2#post2081367



Phaetos said:


> Via PM, EdgeTac told me that you can reserver your pricing in the reply spot, and you can send funds when the product begins shipping. Payment is not necessarily needed immediately to reserve product. My name is on the list now.



Hopefully someone can review at least a prototype before they start shipping.. I agree that that thread is out of control somewhat, the freebies should have been random to stop people colluding and posting drivel. I think the situation at the moment is that theres over 330 posts and only 200 or so orders. I hope its sorted out as fairly as possible for everyone.


----------



## Joe Talmadge (Nov 4, 2007)

I totally love the NIteCore. If it delivers on the marketing promise, it will be worth the retail price to me, and I'm going to go that route rather than pre-ordering. The specs seem a bit too good to be true, the lumens and runtime are high, we don't know what the beam looks like, and if continuous levels were easy to do without big sacrifices in efficiency and the like, we'd have seen it in lights other than the multi-hundred-dollar Titan and Gat. So, I'm rooting for these guys, but having lived through years of history here, still a bit cautious.


----------



## srvctec (Nov 4, 2007)

Joe Talmadge said:


> I totally love the NIteCore. If it delivers on the marketing promise, it will be worth the retail price to me, and I'm going to go that route rather than pre-ordering. The specs seem a bit too good to be true, the lumens and runtime are high, we don't know what the beam looks like, and if continuous levels were easy to do without big sacrifices in efficiency and the like, we'd have seen it in lights other than the multi-hundred-dollar Titan and Gat. So, I'm rooting for these guys, but having lived through years of history here, still a bit cautious.



EXACTLY!! That's my take on this thing, too. I'm going to wait and see how these lights really are after all of the reviews and maybe even a while after the reviews are in so some real world use has come into play. I've been through several prepays here and haven't been burned yet, but this thing *seems* too good to be true- hope not, for the sake of flashaholics everywhere.


----------



## E.R.S. (Nov 4, 2007)

I will wait of reviews and see the truth.


----------



## Kiessling (Nov 4, 2007)

There is only so much a manufacturer can do with the current generation of LEDs and batteries. And I have doubts that 1 x alkaline AA can power a EZ1000 at 1000+mA at all.
Has someone tried to relate the runtime graphs to th energy contained in the cell?
bernie


----------



## designated_marksman (Nov 4, 2007)

I doubt it'll work as well as described(the graphs dont add up), but as long as it's bright, Im satisfied.



for you skeptics theres always http://www.ic3.gov/


----------



## letezac (Nov 4, 2007)

RV7 Driver and a Q5 can do.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/166132


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 4, 2007)

luminata said:


> What is completely amazing to me is the number of jerks repeatedly posting in the pre-order thread with questions/comments and/or small talk thus taking away the chance for others to get a lower initial price on these


Yep. 'tis why I haven't replied to the answer to my post there. Don't want to take someone's chance away just to talk.



falconx said:


> I hope its sorted out as fairly as possible for everyone.


That'd be really easy to do. Erase all posts that don't have an order in them, recount the actual orders and redistribute the price ranges accordingly.

I guess they aren't terribly eager to stop the flood of nonsense because every person who posts without ordering is a light less that they'll have to send out at reduced profit, but it still seems unprofessional.

Mind you, I *am* slightly bitter about this, as I'd probably be in the $40 zone if people hadn't posted without ordering.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi [email protected],

I realise that as you've mentioned, there have already been many threads regarding the price of the Titan. That I have to agree.

But then, do realise that at the time of those threads, there weren't any lights out in the market close to the price range of the Defender, with the infinitely variable brightness feature. So discussions regarding its price tag were mostly relative to each persons view instead of an actual product comparison.
(Side note: The GatLight has this feature too, but again, the price range. $295-$370.)

Hence, I see this discussion, and any reference to the Titans price and features as valid and fresh ones for the plain fact that such a product is actually being made available now.

Finally, I don't really care about the issue as to weather SureFire has vested interest in CPF. (Anyone still remember the U2-clone threads?)
To me, it doesn't make any difference to CPF users. Simply because even if things get censored here, there are many other means to get the info online.

So let there be healthy competition and the masses will benefit


----------



## paulr (Nov 4, 2007)

There have been several other lights with continuous level adjustments: Photon Freedom, Photon Proton, Peak First Responder, Rigel Skylite all come to mind immediately. It hasn't caught on more widely because frankly it's not that useful a feature.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 4, 2007)

Discussing the features of the lights is the object here unless I'm mistaken. Discussing the price ad nauseum *in every thread *isn't.


----------



## robo21 (Nov 4, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Hi [email protected],
> 
> I realise that as you've mentioned, there have already been many threads regarding the price of the Titan. That I have to agree.
> 
> ...


 
I couldn't agree with you more x2x3x2. Nice post. This is a valid thread and I do think that comparisons and competition are part of free enterprise. When censorship and special interests take over then we have neither free enterprise nor healthy competition. 

And I think, ideally, CPF should be a place where we can share information and ideas, likes and dislikes, compare products, prices, output, runtime, and every other element of flashlights and associated products. And price as it relates to value is a valid subject.


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 4, 2007)

I placed an order for one at 60 bones... can't wait, it looks like a cross between a novatac and titan. hope its not another flop though...


sorry...


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 4, 2007)

Let me refresh the rules: Discussing a ban is not allowed...  :tsk:


----------



## BentHeadTX (Nov 4, 2007)

Joe Talmadge said:


> I totally love the NIteCore. If it delivers on the marketing promise, it will be worth the retail price to me, and I'm going to go that route rather than pre-ordering. The specs seem a bit too good to be true, the lumens and runtime are high, we don't know what the beam looks like, and if continuous levels were easy to do without big sacrifices in efficiency and the like, we'd have seen it in lights other than the multi-hundred-dollar Titan and Gat. So, I'm rooting for these guys, but having lived through years of history here, still a bit cautious.



Hey Joe!,
I feel the same way, part of me wants to jump but I know I should wait. The reason is my wife, she tracks every light I purchase and if this one does not live up to it's claims, I am out a different light.  
Good thing she does, I would have a house full of flashlights by now!  I have purchased three lights this year (Peak Baltic UP, Fenix L2D RB100 and KD AAA SSC) Got space for one more this year so I don't want to blow it. 
Can't wait for the reviews of the Proton Pro AND NiteCore Defender Infinity (love the logo! really :thumbsup: )


----------



## Illum (Nov 4, 2007)

robo21, theres plenty of room on that matter in the underground if your so inclined, nothing against your position, but usually discussions on bans sometimes gets very very crazy. 

this is very interesting....having never heard of nitecore as a manufacturer [yeah my mistake ] I can only take it with a pinch of salt. I wasm't expecting such a long thread, its looking very promising


----------



## WadeF (Nov 4, 2007)

Can't wait to see if this light lives up to the hype. I two wonder if they can really get 180 lumens out of a AA. I know Dereelight has released a drop in module that drives the higher Vf Q4's and Q5's at 1-1.2A off a 18650, even if the voltage drops to 3v, etc. So maybe they can boost the AA enough to do the same. Seems like it would suck the life out of the AA rather quickly though.  We'll see. I went with EMS shipping so I'll post a review as soon as I have one in hand, along with LUX readings, etc. I can compare it to my Fenix P3D Rebel100 and P3D Q5 in a bounce box to see how it compares.


----------



## Patriot (Nov 4, 2007)

*Luminata*


> What is completely amazing to me is the number of jerks repeatedly posting in the pre-order thread with questions/comments and/or small talk thus taking away the chance for others to get a lower initial price on these. Even after post #301 was hit they continue to do it and wasting slots and forcing the price up for others.


 
It's really somethin' isn't it. I saw many times where a member created a post just to say "interesting" or "congratulations." I pointed out this problem in post #52 but people only read what they want to read I guess. I have to assume that those members didn't read the entire OP and therefore didn't intensionally "punk" other members. Still, it's mildly negligent to post without as least reading the entire OP.

*Fallingwater*


> I guess they aren't terribly eager to stop the flood of nonsense because every person who posts without ordering is a light less that they'll have to send out at reduced profit, but it still seems unprofessional.


 
+1....Exactly.


----------



## mmmflashlights (Nov 4, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Hi [email protected],
> 
> I realise that as you've mentioned, there have already been many threads regarding the price of the Titan. That I have to agree.
> 
> ...


 
Well said x2.


----------



## afterglow (Nov 4, 2007)

looks very interesting! I'll wait for the reviews though... but looks promising. The ultimate keychain light at an afordable cost.


----------



## robbydob (Nov 4, 2007)

settle down....you are a moderator.



Sasha said:


> ... or just simply read the text in the link that I so conveniently provided for you...


----------



## donn_ (Nov 4, 2007)

I ordered (and paid for) one at $50, when I became aware of it. If it even comes close to the marketing hype, I'll buy more at retail, and give them to friends and family. If it doesn't, I'm out no more than I'd be out by spending $50 on a bottle of unknown wine on a whim.


----------



## cave dave (Nov 4, 2007)

Prepay for a chinese light with undefined UI that isn't ready for shipping yet? No thanks. 

According to the Tad Gear site:


> "NiteCore was built and reborn on the ashes of Jetbeam. "



Wasn't the Jetbeam a bit of a flop that didn't live up to expectations?


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 4, 2007)

Not sure if this means anything but,I just checked TADGEAR website,it states Nitecore defender arriving early 2008!! does that mean we get ours before the dealers. or start:thinking: I will keep to see what developes,but certainly no  from me yet!


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## srvctec (Nov 4, 2007)

robbydob said:


> settle down....you are a moderator.



You're jumping in (when it had absolutely nothing to do with you) to tell the person who runs this place (yeah, she runs this forum, i.e., head honcho in case you didn't know) to settle down? Last time I checked it's her house and she can do as she sees fit.

Hmmmm...


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## donn_ (Nov 4, 2007)

cave dave said:


> Wasn't the Jetbeam a bit of a flop that didn't live up to expectations?




I've had a 1xAA Jetbeam hanging off me for a couple of weeks now, and it's certainly living up to my expectations. It's still on its first Eneloop, it's hit the concrete from 3' a few times, and it's still ticking.


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## Greta (Nov 4, 2007)

robbydob said:


> settle down....you are a moderator.


 
Oh my!  Guess you put me in *MY* place, didn't you? 

Now I guess I'll put you in yours. Take a week to read up on the rules of this forum and find out who is who.

Toodles! :wave:


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## PJD (Nov 4, 2007)

Sasha said:


> Toodles! :wave:



I'm sorry, but I just GOTTA chime in...that's frikkin' HILARIOUS 

(ahem...) sorry...back on topic...

PJD


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## x2x3x2 (Nov 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Discussing the features of the lights is the object here unless I'm mistaken. Discussing the price ad nauseum *in every thread *isn't.



Forgive my ignorance, but from which part did you percieve the objective of this thread to be solely about its features?

The title clearly says "... for the masses"

If flashlights were free, then your assumption would make sense.
Personally, I think most people would agree that the main reason for particularly saying "for the masses" is in direct relation to a products' price. Wouldn't you? If no, how did you interpret those 3 words in the title?
Compare how many people can afford a ~$500 light comapred to a ~$50 one.

On another note, there have been a bazzillion posts about Fenix lights, many repeated subjects. More so than the Titan. Yet, those threads never seemed to attract such heavy moderator attention which is why I'm just curious as to your point.

Best Regards,
Mev.


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## paulr (Nov 4, 2007)

I think CPF is a flashlight enthusiasts' board, not a flashlight for the masses board. If CPF were about flashlights for the masses we'd all use Dorcys and Energizer 2D PR2 lights.


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## Phaetos (Nov 4, 2007)

Sasha said:


> Oh my!  Guess you put me in *MY* place, didn't you?
> 
> Now I guess I'll put you in yours. Take a week to read up on the rules of this forum and find out who is who.
> 
> Toodles! :wave:




In the immortal words of that guy on "The 70's Show" ... BURNED!!!!!


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## x2x3x2 (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi paulr,

Well, my bad. I didn't know lights such as Fenix which have been discussed to death on CPF, were only bought by flashlight enthusiasts. I was under the impression that they were mass produced lights.

Anyway, you are over-generalizing my point. I clearly stated with regards to the number of people (or flashlight enthusiasts) who can afford a $500 light as opposed to a $50 one.


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## mmmflashlights (Nov 4, 2007)

I'm a flashlight enthusiast, and I'm also someone that has a limited budget for the hobby and tries to find bargains in flashlights when possible. It's perfectly natural to want to discuss lights sharing common traits and comparing their values. This light shares some clear features to a light like the Titan, I don't see why it's taboo to compare the value that they represent.


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 4, 2007)

Wow this product has become a 3 ring circus!

While I'm having a bit of a giggle reading thru this, I do have a bit of empathy with the Mods trying to keep CPF.... well CPF.
I must admit I've been having almost as much fun just being a consumer on CPF as I've had being a modder these past months. I blame Cree. 

Back toward topic... almost
The thing I point out about it being available at TAD in 2008: CPF is essentially _paying_ to test a product from the looks of it. Now we're paying a reduced price and we get to keep it, but still one way to look at it is Beta Testers.
Personally I can live with that. 
There is of course the side of me that loves to be first, to have the newest greatest, brightest toy in the county. And I'm sure many of us would accept (maybe more like give up a finger for) this situation if SF did it; give us _new_ products for a final testing at a discount before shipping to retailers.
Any way we look at it, EDGE got our attention.
:thinking:
I'd love to hear thoughts about this, and about how this fits into our "vision" of CPF.

[mods if this tangent is better suited somewhere else... you know better than me]


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## paulr (Nov 4, 2007)

I think just about everyone on CPF (with a few exceptions for sure) can afford a $500 light, in the sense that if we decide we want it bad enough, we can buy it without having to sacrifice anything really important in our lives. A few less sushi dinners and DVD players, or doing without electric windows on the new car, and the Titan is paid for. It's just a question of priorities and preferences. Therefore the anger that I see from the Fenix crowd towards CPF'ers who decide that they'd rather spend their $500 on a Titan than on DVD players and sushi seems misplaced to me on a board like this. That someone buys a Titan doesn't necessarily mean they have money to burn. It means the Titan fits within their priorities, which are already known to be a bit out of the ordinary since they're on a flashlight board in the first place. So the anger is that some of the participants on a flashlight board are, well, flashlight enthusiasts. That just seems silly.

Anyway, I'm on the buy list for the Nitecore but chose to pass up on the Titan, so we're in the same boat. I just don't see them as comparable lights despite the (unclear) presence of variable intensity on the Nitecore.


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## KevinL (Nov 4, 2007)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Wow this product has become a 3 ring circus!
> 
> While I'm having a bit of a giggle reading thru this, I do have a bit of empathy with the Mods trying to keep CPF.... well CPF.
> I must admit I've been having almost as much fun just being a consumer on CPF as I've had being a modder these past months. I blame Cree.
> ...



That's cool. I'm a reviewer too (for those of you who read LR/FLDB/ROP).. it's all good


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## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 4, 2007)

paulr said:


> I think just about everyone on CPF (with a few exceptions for sure) can afford a $500 light, in the sense that if we decide we want it bad enough, we can buy it without having to sacrifice anything really important in our lives. A few less sushi dinners and DVD players, or doing without electric windows on the new car, and the Titan is paid for. It's just a question of priorities and preferences. Therefore the anger that I see from the Fenix crowd towards CPF'ers who decide that they'd rather spend their $500 on a Titan than on DVD players and sushi seems misplaced to me on a board like this. That someone buys a Titan doesn't necessarily mean they have money to burn. It means the Titan fits within their priorities, which are already known to be a bit out of the ordinary since they're on a flashlight board in the first place. So the anger is that some of the participants on a flashlight board are, well, flashlight enthusiasts. That just seems silly.
> 
> Anyway, I'm on the buy list for the Nitecore but chose to pass up on the Titan, so we're in the same boat. I just don't see them as comparable lights despite the (unclear) presence of variable intensity on the Nitecore.




I agree, heck, I already paid for my nitecore but if I wanted the titan bad enough... I would have found a way to justify paying for it... sure its expensive but there are currently no light quite like it even though the nitecore might be very close. This however doesn't mean that the titan isn't worth the $500 surefire is asking. and to think that someone here on CPF would call people who bought the titan "suckers" is just plain tacky and stupid. the fact of the matter is we're flashaholics and for good reason, we all own more lights than we need. are we all "suckers" because now we're buying more than we need?

can't wait for this light, if the UI is awesome.. it'll be awesome.


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## Bushman5 (Nov 4, 2007)

paulr said:


> I think just about everyone on CPF (with a few exceptions for sure) can afford a $500 light, in the sense that if we decide we want it bad enough, we can buy it without having to sacrifice anything really important in our lives. A few less sushi dinners and DVD players, or doing without electric windows on the new car, and the Titan is paid for. It's just a question of priorities and preferences. Therefore the anger that I see from the Fenix crowd towards CPF'ers who decide that they'd rather spend their $500 on a Titan than on DVD players and sushi seems misplaced to me on a board like this. That someone buys a Titan doesn't necessarily mean they have money to burn. It means the Titan fits within their priorities, which are already known to be a bit out of the ordinary since they're on a flashlight board in the first place. So the anger is that some of the participants on a flashlight board are, well, flashlight enthusiasts. That just seems silly.
> 
> Anyway, I'm on the buy list for the Nitecore but chose to pass up on the Titan, so we're in the same boat. I just don't see them as comparable lights despite the (unclear) presence of variable intensity on the Nitecore.



put me down as one of those exceptions...i'm only working part time, $500 is my monthly gross. :sick2: that being said, i did max out the credit card buying flashlights.........


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 4, 2007)

paulr said:


> I think just about everyone on CPF (with a few exceptions for sure) can afford a $500 light...



Actually I disagree. Many of the highly active members maybe, but your average 16 posts guy probably not. Myself I definitely can't afford a $500 on a whim. Thats about a 2 month pooling of money and willpower on my part, and that is only because I've been poor all my life and know how to manage myself and my money very well. I may be an exception, but I'd bet against it.

That said I do appropriate my small bit of "fun money" (I'm single so I have some) to flashlights usually, so an unexpected $50 in this case isn't extremely significant, but it means I don't get something else this month.


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## srvctec (Nov 5, 2007)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Myself I definitely can't afford a $500 on a whim. Thats about a 2 month pooling of money and willpower on my part, and that is only because I've been poor all my life and know how to manage myself and my money very well. I may be an exception, but I'd bet against it.



I agree with you mostly, except for the 2 month part. It would take me several months to save for a $500 light and I would NEVER pay that much for a light to begin with. The most I've ever spent on a light to date is about $70 and I've been buying them for the last 35 years. Yes I'm a flashaholic and enthusiast, just not one that would EVER spend $500 on a light. Unless I won the lottery or something like that!


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## Sigman (Nov 5, 2007)

Well I guess I'd consider myself "active"  however I certainly can't afford a $500 light! Oh I guess I could save for a long time & make it happen - but I need to pay bills & feed the family first!

On that note...I'd really like to see this light compared to the ones in the links that were posted earlier (link 1 & link 2).


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## [email protected] (Nov 5, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but from which part did you percieve the objective of this thread to be solely about its features?
> 
> The title clearly says "... for the masses"



Wich implies that it is much more affordable, so I still fail to see the need to discuss the price difference ad nauseum.

For the last time, focus on the lights, not the price that everybody already knows...


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## aceo07 (Nov 5, 2007)

Wow. Seems like an interesting situation. Pay for lights without great details or pics or reviews.

My mind caught a few things that made me stop.
1. No extra details from manufacturer after first post
2. Must pay before 500th post or discount is lost. Even without product ready to ship.
3. Reviewers will be shipped product next week. When will they actually receive item to do review?
4. How do you use their infinite output? (Like Titan or LiteFlux) Can someone verfy and confirm?
5. Seems like their 'low' ouput is 3-5 lumens. So their 'infinite' is from 3 lumens to max. With no real low output. I consider low to be 1 lumen or less.
6. Their graphs show amazing output (lumens) regulation for li-ion, rechargable, alk batteries. All on the dot, 5 lumens or 3 lumens. I currently only know 1 company that can do that (HDS).

This post was just to ask questions and note my observations. I'll wait to see how this pans out.


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## skalomax (Nov 5, 2007)

I can't wait for mine.
A bit skeptical though.

The anodizing looks great, nice textured reflector, and high ouput.

It better be worth the $0.00 I paid for It.


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## Bushman5 (Nov 5, 2007)

^ yea that was a nice snag!! 

I paypal'd my $40 bucks. if i dont get a light i simply dispute it with paypal and get my money back. If paypal doesnt pay i simply dispute it with Visa. Its really not a big deal, dont know what all the fuss is about.


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## TOOCOOL (Nov 5, 2007)

aceo07 said:


> Wow. Seems like an interesting situation. Pay for lights without great details or pics or reviews.
> 
> My mind caught a few things that made me stop.
> 1. No extra details from manufacturer after first post
> ...



You got #1 and #2 wrong #3 how can anyone answer that ? #4 no #5 thats just your opinion #6 Maybe


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## Niteowl (Nov 5, 2007)

paulr said:


> I think just about _*everyone*_ on CPF (with a few exceptions for sure) can afford a $500 light, in the sense that if we decide we want it bad enough, we can buy it without having to sacrifice anything really important in our lives...........



LMFAO.....Even attempting to keep the statement in the original context, that's one of the funniest things I've read on these forums. I know we have some "High Rollers" here, but come on Paul..........A heroin junkie might skew priorities for a fix, but not your _*average*_ CPF'er to the tune of $500. 

Simply my worthless two cents. 




paulr said:


> Therefore the anger that I see from the Fenix crowd towards CPF'ers who decide that they'd rather spend their $500 on a Titan than on DVD players and sushi seems misplaced to me on a board like this.................



Anger.....I've got three Fenix lights and I'm not angry. Just what kind of vibes are you getting off your screen?

BOT-

The NiteCore light is one sexy looking light, I dare say more appealing than the Titan. IMO of course. I really shouldn't be looking at it as I have my eye on something else and try to pace my purchases. 

What's got me and many others spooked is the odd pre-pay set-up and somewhat fishy technical details. I'm holding back on the PP right now, but damn, she's hot!




EDIT-(sp) thanks nerdgineer, for pointing it out..... 

A heroine junkie....


nerdgineer said:


> :laughing:....a brave woman, unfortunately addicted to drugs........:laughing::laughing:



A tragedy indeed....:sigh:


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## gunga (Nov 5, 2007)

The battery graphs are good but remember that at super low output (as shown) most batteries will have good regulation.

At higher outputs, the nimh and li-on chemistries give fairly flat output, so that's not too unbelievable.

I'm just not sure 180 lumens out of eneloop nimh for 50 minutes is possible. Maybe 1/2 an hour, not 50 minutes. 

I booked a couple. This light has 95% of what I want. If it pans out, I will want a few. Have not paid yet, waiting for a sniff of a review or at least more info from the Manufacterer.

Not a fan of the pre-buy and weird pricing, but if the reviews come in before payment is needed then I would be very happy.

I have an idea, how about everyone who ordered (should be less than $500) get a refund and we all wait for reviews before paying...


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## Daniel_sk (Nov 5, 2007)

Edgetac finally cleared some things up:


Edgetac said:


> I will have those who have sent payment listed on our original post, then you will be able to see how many pcs have been ordered, and I will have the exact date of shipment announced later, so you will be able to send payment before they are shipped out.
> 
> And yes, if you posted you want one, but you have not sent payment when orders reach 500, you don't get one at the price you posted at. And when the date of shipment comes, if you have not sent payment yet, you don't get one at the price you posted at, either.


So, we don't need to pay until 500 posts are made on the CPFM forum, but until 500 flashlights are sold. I hope we will have a review by that time. I reserved one for $50 (I was camping and missed the $40 price :duh2. 



Edgetac said:


> Defender Infinity adopts unique infinitely *variable digital-controlled brightness* technique, which enables customers to set the brightness levels by themselves only through rotating the bezel of the light.


I am still confused how is this going to work. The "digital-controlled brightness" sounds like something in LF flashlights? Not a mechanical element? And the two stage memory function is another mystery... I wish they would describe it a little more...



Edgetac said:


> Two-stage memory function, can be switched easily


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## nerdgineer (Nov 5, 2007)

Niteowl said:


> ...A heroine junkie...


:laughing:....a brave woman, unfortunately addicted to drugs........:laughing::laughing:


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## mmmflashlights (Nov 5, 2007)

nerdgineer said:


> :laughing:....a brave woman, unfortunately addicted to drugs........:laughing::laughing:


 
:laughing:

gunga, regarding runtime with an Eneloop vs. output, you are right and it would barely even mathimatically possible by my guess. A Q5 at 1A is around 220 lumens at the emitter, say there is about a 25% loss from the reflector and lens, down to about 165 lumens. Figure in an extremely efficient circuit and you can probably come close to 160 lumens at the 50 minutes listed. At 50 minutes I would guess that this light may end up being somewhere around 140 lumens, which is still an impressive light. With an incredible circuit, a good Q5, and minimal light loss before exiting the light, 180 lumens for 50 minutes could be done I think, but if it ends up testing around 150 lumens for 50 minutes I think that would be impressive. I've come to take most output ratings with a grain of salt, some are grossly off though, hopefully this has a great circuit in it.


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## falconx (Nov 5, 2007)

Just in case people have missed this: 
http://www.nitecore.com/pages/images/technology_r5_c2.jpg
From their site:
http://www.nitecore.com/pages/technology.htm


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 5, 2007)

I'm quite sure that 190 (14500)/180 (AA's) is emitter lumens, not out the front.


Anyway let's actually do the math not just guess the math or claim the math.

Looking at performance graphs for the Q4 we're at about 670mA to the emitter for 178 emitter lumens. 
I don't recall the math to estimate how much extra current will be needed to boost 1.2-ish volts up to 3.7-ish volts assuming a really good efficiency. Anyone want to provide the actual method and work?
We know Eneloops hold capacity pretty well with discharge rates around 2C.
[edit: and I'm sure we're not going to be drawing that much ]

Let's see how efficient their driver circuit needs to be in order to pull this off.


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## TCW 60 (Nov 5, 2007)

On the TADGEAR site they say:

*NiteCore was built and reborn on the ashes of Jetbeam*
 
I think they will away from the Jetbeam reputation.


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## Haz (Nov 5, 2007)

TCW 60 said:


> On the TADGEAR site they say:
> 
> *NiteCore was built and reborn on the ashes of Jetbeam*
> 
> I think they will away from the Jetbeam reputation.


 
Similar to the Phoenix reborn and rising from the ashes!.


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## ingokl (Nov 5, 2007)

PhantomPhoton said:


> I'm quite sure that 190 (14500)/180 (AA's) is emitter lumens, not out the front.
> 
> 
> Anyway let's actually do the math not just guess the math or claim the math.
> ...



Well, you can just compute the power consumed by the LED and than calculate the needed current from the battery.
At around 670 mA the Cree has a Vf of a about 3.5V, so the the power consumption is around 2.4 Watt. The average discharge voltage of the eneloop is about 1.2 V, so you need a current of 2A from the eneeloop. Assuming the effeicienciy of the driver to be around 95% it would pull around 2.1A out of the batteriy. Looking at the capacity at that current, the NiteCore runtimegraph may be optimistic but not totally unrealistic.


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## andyz (Nov 5, 2007)

falconx said:


> Just in case people have missed this:
> http://www.nitecore.com/pages/images/technology_r5_c2.jpg
> From their site:
> http://www.nitecore.com/pages/technology.htm



At best its similar to the titan, but maybe it has a dim up dim down control where twist and hold bezel to the right will ramp up the output, twist and hold left will dim down. Whatever it is I,m happy to get variable control without the annoying SoS and s-t-r-o-b-e.

From what I can see on the initial pictures and specs I think its going to be a very good quality flashlight and well worth the price.

Made from military grade aluminum alloy,
Compact size and light weight, suitable for EDC (every day carry); 
Mil-Spec Type III Hard Anodized finish; 
Resistance to impact by dropping according to US MIL-STD-810F; 
Waterproof to IPX-8 standard; 
Broad-voltage fully-regulated circuit, compatible with kinds of batteries; 
Li-ion battery identified and low-voltage alarming system; 
Built in CREE Q5 WC high efficiency LED (Light Emitting Diodes); 
Tactical forward clickies switch; 
Anti-rolling rugged design; 
Metal reflector; 
Impact-resistant optical lens with Dual-CoatingTM technique; 
Tactical lanyards braided with military grade 550 parachute-cord and glow-in-dark cord ends. 

IMO Just these features alone make a pretty good EDC, hopefully the user interface will be a bonus


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## andyz (Nov 5, 2007)

Hmmmmm looks like we get to see a Video of the Defender Infinity tomorrow


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## koala (Nov 5, 2007)

Catch is... the person who worked for JetBeam is working as the Marketing Manager for NiteCore atm.

Can't wait to get my paws on the defender infinity.



TCW 60 said:


> On the TADGEAR site they say:
> 
> *NiteCore was built and reborn on the ashes of Jetbeam*
> 
> I think they will away from the Jetbeam reputation.


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## curry__muncha (Nov 5, 2007)

Haz said:


> Similar to the Phoenix reborn and rising from the ashes!.



HAH!.. Beat me to it ;]


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## ingokl (Nov 5, 2007)

I asked them about tailstanding. They told me that would not be very steady so the light is not really made for that, but take that in consideration for future lights.


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 5, 2007)

ingokl said:


> I asked them about tailstanding. They told me that would not be very steady so the light is not really made for that, but take that in consideration for future lights.


Actually,this could be a simple mod,so that it would tailstand.


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## thiswayup (Nov 5, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Hi [email protected],
> 
> I realise that as you've mentioned, there have already been many threads regarding the price of the Titan. That I have to agree.
> 
> But then, do realise that at the time of those threads, there weren't any lights out in the market close to the price range of the Defender, with the infinitely variable brightness feature.



There's the Photon Freedom. Can it be that hard?

The truth is that Surefire and Inova don't bother to innovate, and that the Asian companies that do are usually very cash poor. If NiteCore have a decent amount of capital, they will have options open to them that, say, Jetbeam haven't. 

As for the price ratio between the Defender and Titan - I don't think any sensible person doubts that SF have loaded the Titan with a huge profit margin. Divide by 2 to compensate for this, and you're looking at the same sort of ratio of prices as for a Novatac and Liteflux. That's not to say that the Defender will meet all of its specs exactly - Lumen's claims from manufacturers are notoriously unreliable


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## Fallingwater (Nov 5, 2007)

paulr said:


> I think just about everyone on CPF (with a few exceptions for sure) can afford a $500 light


Not quite.
All those who buy a Surefire a month surely can, but there's many, many people who can't.
Just have a look at all the "please tell me which of these <$40 lights to buy" threads here.
Most people either don't want or can't spend $500 on a flashlight.
And, as I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't spend them on the Titan even if I were rich, because IMO it's waaaay down on the price/performance ratio. Since I'm an efficiency-in-all-things junkie I wouldn't buy a Titan just as I wouldn't buy a Bugatti Veyron (say).



> Therefore the anger that I see from the Fenix crowd towards CPF'ers who decide that they'd rather spend their $500 on a Titan than on DVD players and sushi seems misplaced to me on a board like this


You're thinking from the point of view of a person who has money to spare.
Not all of us live like that.
I am not, personally, angry at people who blow half a kilobuck on a Titan. If they spent that money on a powerful HID light I'd have nothing to say, but I'm peeved at their acceptance of a dismal price/performance ratio just because it's a SureFire.

There might be a few who really, genuinely need a truly infinitely adjustable beam, but I'm convinced most of the people who've bought the Titan have done so because they wanted a new toy, and were willing to buy a luxury-for-the-sake-of-itself item to get it.
Many probably liked the Titan *because* of its exclusive, luxury value, which is a half-blasphemy for a function-over-form person such as myself.

But we live in a free world, of course, and I sure don't want to take away the right of everybody to spend their money however they like.

It could be worse. $500 for a flashlight is still better than $500 for a wooden knob.

And, of course, I freely admit that a bit of the reason why I'm peeved is envy. Not about the flashlight, but about the ability to spend $500 like that without feeling the hit.

Getting back on topic, I'm looking forward for the video. That should put to rest the uneasiness about the infinity setting thing.


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## aceo07 (Nov 5, 2007)

TOOCOOL said:


> You got #1 and #2 wrong #3 how can anyone answer that ? #4 no #5 thats just your opinion #6 Maybe




Re: 1. It wasn't much more information supplied. The thread was mostly promoting orders and to not take up more posts with questions.

Re: 2. "Payment will have to be sent before the orders reach 500pcs / before the goods are ready to ship. That is to say, when the payment we received reaches the quantity of 500pcs, your post number becomes invalid; also, if the goods are ready to ship, and you still have not paid, your post number becomes invalid as well." - EdgeTac. Pretty much they're forcing you to pay asap else you lose your discount.

Re: 3. This was just to illustrate the position that buyers are in. Paying for an item without more details or reviews.

Re: 4. Yes, we'll have to wait to see how the variable output controls work. I think that everybody is hoping that it's not like the LiteFlux, which also has infinite variable outputs and 2 output level save settings.

Re: 5. Yes, 'low' output is my opinion. Though on their website, it states 'really very low output'. I think we can both agree that 'really very low output' is NOT 3 lumens. I didn't see the website until now. Therefore I didn't quote the 'really very low output' in my original post.

Re: 6. Nobody is surprised that all the graphs are right on the line for 3 and 5 lumens? I'm not referring to power regulation, but output regulation. Perhaps they adjusted the numbers for the graphs. Who knows, but I found it strange.

I'm just cautious that's all.


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## KevinL (Nov 5, 2007)

thiswayup said:


> As for the price ratio between the Defender and Titan - I don't think any sensible person doubts that SF have loaded the Titan with a huge profit margin. Divide by 2 to compensate for this, and you're looking at the same sort of ratio of prices as for a Novatac and Liteflux. That's not to say that the Defender will meet all of its specs exactly - Lumen's claims from manufacturers are notoriously unreliable



Just my personal opinion - even if I 'derate' generously (which I usually do), there is still so much that is appealing about this light that it is worth checking out. Which is also why I am keen about reviewing it, to find out what it does, and what it doesn't do. 

The only other immediate competitor in its price range is the Fenix and I don't like multi-click UI's.

For $80 (MSRP, not the first-run special offer), I'm quite willing to take it and be happy with it, if it does most of what it says it can do. Can't argue for that price.

Now I'm not saying that blind faith is the order of the day here, but rather, give them a chance. Of course, giving them a chance comes at a risk. 

In fact I even offered to pay for a sample to 'take one for the team' but they're out of samples. Yup you read that right, I'd put $50 on the line to take the bullet and find out the truth. So it's all up to the 2 reviewers now


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## Size15's (Nov 5, 2007)

thiswayup said:


> The truth is that Surefire and Inova don't bother to innovate, and that the Asian companies that do are usually very cash poor.


Truth?!
You're welcome to the above statement being your own opinion.
However, your statement does not conform with a verified or indisputable fact in reality.

Concentrating on SureFire's Titan only for one moment:
It features a new UI switch - both mechanically and electrically innovative. Whilst dials have been done before - SureFire are doing it in a new way.
(At some point somebody will dissamble a Titan switch to confirm this)
It features ACME threading for the TailCAp - SureFire innovative.
It features a new quick-connect/disconnect round-rail interface - SureFire innovative.

There is no truth in your assertion that SureFire doesn't bother to innovate.


----------



## ingokl (Nov 5, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Actually,this could be a simple mod,so that it would tailstand.



How would you do it?


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 5, 2007)

thiswayup said:


> There's the Photon Freedom. Can it be that hard?



The Photon Freedom doesn't really count if we're talkin about the infinitely variable brightness feature. If it did, I would have already mentioned it besides the GatLight.

The Freedom has a number of preset levels of brightness which ramps up/down which gives the perception of a smooth variation of brightness.
Its much like ramping of the 21 levels with a NovaTac 120P for instance. Except the difference between each level on the freedom is not as wide, hence less noticeable.

If you wanna go even further, anything else except the highest level on the Freedom uses PWM with an obvious pulsing effect.


----------



## robo21 (Nov 5, 2007)

paulr said:


> I think CPF is a flashlight enthusiasts' board, not a flashlight for the masses board. If CPF were about flashlights for the masses we'd all use Dorcys and Energizer 2D PR2 lights.


 
And I think that *in the context* of the title of this thread "for the masses" is a direct reference to the affordability of the NiteCore not the quality of the light.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 5, 2007)

ingokl said:


> How would you do it?


First I need to know,how far the boot protrudes,but I will show you when I get my light,with pics.
But what I can tell you, once I know that,find a o-ring with the thickness that is slightly bigger than the protrusion.take the boot out off the tailcap,fit the o-ring over the boot,inside the boot there is a post that contacts the switch,this will be trimmed accordingly.I'll try and show you with my D-Mini with pics,shortly.


----------



## 83Venture (Nov 5, 2007)

I'll wait for it to turn from vaporware into a real product. Plenty of people here to test it and answer all my questions/concerns before I buy one.


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## x2x3x2 (Nov 5, 2007)

EMS on the way, so shouldn't be long


----------



## robo21 (Nov 5, 2007)

Size15's said:


> Truth?!
> 
> There is *no* truth in your assertion that SureFire doesn't bother to innovate.


 
Could it be possible that there is *some* truth in the assertion that Surefire doesn't bother to innovate? I don't think this is quite so black and white. 

And while the Titan is somewhat innovative, IMO it is sorely lacking in price/performance value. IMO it has taken on the role of status symbol.


----------



## gunga (Nov 5, 2007)

PLease post any impressions as soon as you can!

Even if you don't finish the review in time, just let us know if it's good and meets some/most of the promises.

PP is waiting for you rimpressions x2x3x2!


----------



## robo21 (Nov 5, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> EMS on the way, so shouldn't be long


 
Awesome! 






This will resolve so much of the controversy surrounding this flashlight and it's price/performance relationship vis-a-vis the Titan.


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## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 5, 2007)

x2x3x2, when you say EMS on the way... do you mean its been shipped? Please say yes..

kthxbye


----------



## Delij (Nov 5, 2007)

is it just me? Or are the "rules" confusing as to when payment must be made?

I still see what seems to be conflicting versions.

You have to pay before 500 posts.
You have to pay before 500 sales commitments
you have to pay once the first 500 units are ready to be shipped

Any other possibilities I'm missing?

And why are people still posting in that thread without ordering? Do they accomplish anything but to deny someone else an opportunity for a (potential) discount?

And if the pay date cutoff is at 500 sales, how do we know? Do we have to count each commitment manually and subtract the posts that just ask questions or make statements?

Refund policy? Is it clear to anyone?

We all want to see reviews. Many of us before we send in our payment. If 500 posts or 500 commitments are made prior to any of the samples being received in time to be reviewed, are we obligated to buy completely blind or lose our discounts?

Yeah, I'm sure it's probably just me, but I'm not the only one here with less than average intelligence. And of course the lack of concise follow up seems to be no help. And yes, there still remains some vagaries in the Chinese to American English - something lost in translation maybe?

Is CFP in any way assuring us that we are not investing our pay pal money as venture capital to start this up? 500 units at say an avg. of $50 is $25,000 UDS.....goes a long way in China. Should we be stockholders for sending our money before the product exists?

I definitely like what i have been shown, but the details are still sketchy. I don't want to miss out on my discount, but I don't want to pre-pay for an item that doesn't yet exist except in prototype form.

I'm not sure that any of us could not go to China with $25K in US dollars, have a light designed and manufactured to our specs. I've done business in Asia, and if you show them the money, they will make (or copy) pretty much anything. Need a copy of some Microsoft software? DVDs of newly released American films? "Genuine' Rolex watches with your choice of Chinese or Japanese movements? Our copyright laws cannot be enforced effectively in China. If the Titan has some new technology, can it be reverse engineered? (I'd guess "YES"). So for $500 this "new" Surefire technology is no longer new or proprietary. Or at least that seems a possibilty. Especially considering the timing. The Titan is released and virtually within hours, we are offered an opportunity to buy an infinitely variable output light if we pre-pay (at only 10% of the full cost of the Titan). Just coincidence?

I want to stay positive. I want to get this light at a discount. But something tells me we are becoming venture capitalists. Will we get stock certificates along with our lights? 

If this was an American company, I believe we probably would have a very strong case to claim equity in it if they used our pre-payments to develop a product. 

Can this be the case here? I have no way of knowing. This is of course just conjecture. But it seems that so far everything about this is conjecture.

It would be cool if we all were equity partners, wouldn't it?

lol

Color me confused.

D.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 5, 2007)

Well no one has answered my question.Why is TADGEAR their dealer only getting theirs,early 2008?


----------



## Gatsby (Nov 5, 2007)

My my - I leave town for the weekend and come back to this mess! Astounding response, really. Truly the CPF crowd is hungry for AA lights that aren't vaporware ... not sure this one qualifies yet but the pictures sure look nice as does the marketing text.


----------



## robo21 (Nov 5, 2007)

Delij said:


> Yeah, I'm sure it's probably just me, but I'm not the only one here with less than average intelligence.


 Yeah right! You raise some great questions.


----------



## Marduke (Nov 5, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Well no one has answered my question.Why is TADGEAR their dealer only getting theirs,early 2008?



That's when primary production ships. Our 500 run is a beta prototype that we are getting at a discount.

Delij,
Wong specifically said he would post a list of orders soon, so we all know where everything stands. 

Am I the only one who has read both threads in the MP in their entirety to remember all this? :shrug:

Also, the people still posting isn't taking away any spots from other people. Once the posts went over 355, you could buy at many as you want for $60 in that thread. It's $65 if or when a new order thread is started. Again, no limit until 500 paypal orders.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 5, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Well no one has answered my question.Why is TADGEAR their dealer only getting theirs,early 2008?



Maybe you should ask this in there sales thread (if the number of posts no longer counts).


----------



## holeymoley (Nov 5, 2007)

Delij said:


> The Titan is released and virtually within hours, we are offered an opportunity to buy an infinitely variable output light if we pre-pay (at only 10% of the full cost of the Titan). Just coincidence?
> 
> 
> D.



Is this what is meant by "Titan for the masses"? I hadn't realized that until I read this response. 

Also, regardless of whether the count goes by the numbers/order of Paypal payment received, or otherwise; this seems like a great way to drum up business for a startup. This company can do promotions however it sees fit and it sure is an effective marketing gimmick to space the freebies at certain numbers to ensure interest stays strong.


----------



## whc (Nov 5, 2007)

Man what an amazing interest there is in this flashlight, impressed with NiteCore's marketing, have never seen anything like this .

Caved in myself, has really been in the need for a high quality AA flashlight, with either programmable features (like Novatac) or like Titan infinity or what ever brightness, anything but Fenix alike UI, don't work for me. And wow what a nice looking flashlight with forward clicky, really caught everybody's interests (including my own).

Have personally holding back with payment, even though I was in the $50 post number, first paid today, and only because now users are grabbing like 4 flashlights at the time, man would not risk of being too late and not be within the 500 first production.

I just hope now it lives up to the details, and that they don't rush everything to compromise build quality. Men had saved money for the upcoming HDS release, and now this very cheap flashlight came in to the picture, what ever HDS comes up with has to be good and well priced before I want to spend money on it (this really put out my thirst, for now that is).

How many actually paid for this, would be interesting to see when NiteCore makes that list, and tomorrow a video of the UI, can't wait ...


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 5, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Well no one has answered my question.Why is TADGEAR their dealer only getting theirs,early 2008?



If you want a personal response, you can try sending a message to one (or both) of their two email addresses listed in their Manufacturer Announcement post (at the bottom of post #1). They responded to my inquiry within a few hours.


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 5, 2007)

can't wait to see the video, that would put me at ease. forward clicky too? awesome.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 5, 2007)

Delij said:


> Is CFP in any way assuring us that we are not investing our pay pal money as venture capital to start this up?




If you would have read this thread you would have seen this post by Sasha...  



Sasha said:


> I think this is an appropriate piece of trivia for this thread...
> 
> I was looking for something this afternoon and ran across this bit of info about P.T. Barnum. Be sure to read the whole thing... my guess is that you'll all be as surprised as I was. It will then be up to each of you to decide how to apply it as it relates to this thread and topic...



Or, just read the rules.


----------



## Size15's (Nov 5, 2007)

robo21 said:


> Could it be possible that there is *some* truth in the assertion that Surefire doesn't bother to innovate? I don't think this is quite so black and white.


I guess the musings on the nature of 'truth' could occupy a whole discussion forum. :shrug:
Or could they? :thinking:

Al :green:


----------



## Diode (Nov 5, 2007)

Size15's said:


> I guess the musings on the nature of 'truth' could occupy a whole discussion forum. :shrug:


You mean truthiness?


----------



## Delij (Nov 5, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> If you would have read this thread you would have seen this post by Sasha...
> 
> 
> 
> Or, just read the rules.


 
I read both. As I said, I attribute my confusion to my lower than average intelligence.

Sasha's post was entertaining, but had no specific answers to anything asked. As for the 'rules'...yes, I read them more than twice. (EDIT)...I stand corrected. I read the rules of the pre-payment for this light, not the rules in the link you posted. My bad!!

And yes, I read all of this thread as well as the thread in the market place. 

Can you tell me when and how the pay pal cut-off goes into effect with no uncertainty? Can you tell me if our prepayments are being used to finance the development of this light? 

I go to Asia at least twice a year on business. So please excuse my questioning of this particular method of marketing. 

Tell me what you want, give me $25k USD and I'll have whatever you want reverse engineered. And barring something very inherently expensive, a working prototype as well.

To produce a flashlight with a half dozen parts? That amount of money? You can buy a remote control color TV with a thousand parts for less than $79 that's made in China. Maybe even with a built in DVR.

There are cities in China you never heard of that each have 50,000 factories. Walk through Walmart and see what you can find that is NOT made in China.

Meanwhile, I'm sending my pay pal money just like so many others. Why? Because I'm hopeful and excited despite my skepticism.

Thanks,
D.


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## Size15's (Nov 5, 2007)

Diode said:


> You mean truthiness?


Very good! I love it when I learn something new. Thanks :laughing:


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## [email protected] (Nov 5, 2007)

Delij, your guess is as good as mine regarding the other questions. :thinking:

I know it can go several ways, but my optimistic nature (now where did I leave those Xanax pills... :green:  ) makes me hope it is what it pretends to be, so I bit as well.


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## koala (Nov 5, 2007)

thiswayup said:


> The truth is that Surefire and Inova don't bother to innovate, and that the Asian companies that do are usually very cash poor. If NiteCore have a decent amount of capital, they will have options open to them that, say, Jetbeam haven't.



Without innovation is it possible for a Patent to be granted? Just a few from the Surefire Vice President webpage...
They are actually ready to pounce on many flashlight manufacturers...
Check out #19, it's quite cool... sounds familiar?!

1. * US06046572* Battery operated appliance, flashlight and switching systems 
2. * US06222138* Battery operated appliance, flashlight and switching systems 
3. * US06276088* Firearms with target illuminators 
4. * US06345464* Firearms with target illuminators 
 5. * US06378237* Firearms with target illuminators 
6. * US06439738* Battery powered portable electric light source systems 
7. * US06508027* Accessory mounts for firearms 
8. * US06609810* Illumination apparatus with removable securable switch device 
9. * US06622416* Target and navigation illuminators for firearms  
10. * US06655069* Accessory Mounts for Shotguns and other Firearms 11.* US06675521* Adjusting Orientation Offset of a Light Beam Generator. 
12. * US06761467* Light Beam Modifier Devices 
13. * US06841941* Brightness Controllable Flashlights 
14. * US06779288* Accessory mounts for firearms 
15. * US06895708* Accessory mounts for firearms 
16. * US06994449* Flashlight with securement capability 
17. * US07076908* Accessory mounts for firearm 
18. * US07083297* Flashlight with lens for transmitting central and off-axis light sources 
19. * US07116061* Brightness controllable flashlights 
20. * US07117624* Accessory devices for firearms 
21. * USD0534293* Flashlight Body Portion 
22. * USD0534294* Flashlight Body Portion 
23. * USD0534671* Flashlight Body Portion 
24. * USD0534672* Flashlight Body Portion 
25. * USD0544621* Flashlight Head 
26. * US07220016* Flashlight with Selectable Output Level Switching 
27. * US07241025* Switch Actuated Flashlight with Current Limiter 
28. * USD0544120* Flashlight 
29. * US07273292* Switches for Firearm Electrical Accessories 
30. * US07278764* Object-Attaching Clip 
31. * US07284875* Flashlight Attachment Arrangement​


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## ThatGuyBri (Nov 5, 2007)

Paypal allows 45 days from the date of the relevant payment to file a dispute.


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## holeymoley (Nov 5, 2007)

ThatGuyBri said:


> Paypal allows 45 days from the date of the relevant payment to file a dispute.



good point


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## MetalZone (Nov 5, 2007)

Couldn't resist ordering one yesterday. Hope it lives up to the hype and promises.
I really like the looks of it from the pictures.


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## Gannz (Nov 5, 2007)

ThatGuyBri said:


> Paypal allows 45 days from the date of the relevant payment to file a dispute.


 
This would only work with an established company in the USA that wishes to remain in business. PP is very good about resolving disputes and, in my experience of almost 2000 transactions, they almost always side with the buyer. They will freeze the sellers funds IF there are funds in the account. What happens if the seller has already cleared all the money out of their PP account? PP can't do anything if they don't have any money to freeze. They're certainly not going to reimburse you out of their own pocket.

PP does try to dissuade this kind of activity by having the seller verify themselves via a bank account before they can receive funds over xxx amount. But, they still can't reimburse you by drawing money from the sellers bank account. I'm not sure but I'd imagine that this also only applies to US sellers. In the past, all international transactions were 'unverified' and therefore not covered by PP's buyer protection policy. They've since expanded the program somewhat but it only covers 'qualifying international items' (mostly items listed on eBay in a select few countries).


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## KevinL (Nov 5, 2007)

koala said:


> Without innovation is it possible for granted a Patent? Just a few from the Surefire Vice President webpage...
> They are actually ready to pounce on many flashlight manufacturers...
> Check out #19, it's quite cool... sounds familiar?!



#26 is even cooler, because that's the U2 and the mag ring!!


----------



## neoseikan (Nov 5, 2007)

JUST NOW, I phoned the producer, they told me that it is diffirent with Titan or U2.
Doing something, you could see the light itself slide its brightness from weaker to stronger, when you find your choice,
do something, the brightness will be cought and remembered.
And the tail switch, it is a foward clickie, half-press and full-press may be linked to "2 level remembered brightnesss" (This is not comfirmed by them).




KevinL said:


> #26 is even cooler, because that's the U2 and the mag ring!!



#26 is very cool, but not cool enough.
I have read it carefully, but I am not so familiar with US law, so I don't know some words in it well.


----------



## aceo07 (Nov 6, 2007)

neoseikan said:


> JUST NOW, I phoned the producer, they told me *that it is diffirent with Titan or U2*.
> Doing something, you could see the light itself slide its brightness from weaker to stronger, when you find your choice,
> do something, the brightness will be cought and remembered.
> And the tail switch, it is a foward clickie, half-press and full-press may be linked to "2 level remembered brightnesss" (This is not comfirmed by them).



So, this could essentially be a Liteflux. With the LiteFlux, you 'rotate' the head (a few times) to change modes that result in the output to slide in brightness from max to low or in reverse. It also has 2 stored output settings. The only difference with the NiteCore could be that it has a clickie also.

I look forward to their video.


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Nov 6, 2007)

Diode said:


> You mean truthiness?



ROFL 


Anyway I've seen a couple people ask why TAD doesn't get these lights till early 2008. 

That question has already been answered in the first post of the sales thread on CPFM.

CPF is getting a first run of the lights for what is essentially a beta testing before they release the light to retailers.

IMO if there is any problem or major gripe for us they will fix it. We're getting the lights at a discount price so they get a lot of testing and feedback. Also they're targeting the enthusiasts first and that will likely result in a large amount of word of mouth (free) advertising. And I know if the light is good I will be buying more for friends later. They are very shrewd salesmen indeed.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 6, 2007)

Oh, I get it Beta(TINKERING WITH 500 LIGHTS).
Seems a large amount to be tinkering with IMO


In fact what we have is 500 Beta Testers,thats cool..I will wait then until
the tests are in.That way I should end up with a perfect light.:twothumbs

To all the 500 testers,please be honest in your evaluations.I have high hopes of this light.


----------



## KeeperSD (Nov 6, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> In fact what we have is 500 Beta Testers,thats cool..I will wait then until
> the tests are in.That way I should end up with a perfect light.:twothumbs


 
From the thread on CPFM




EDGETAC said:


> *NOTICE:*
> 1. We promise that the quality of the products pre-ordered here are exactly the same with those in mass production. If any differences, our company will refund the lights pre-ordered here unconditionally
> 2. The lights pre-ordered here will enjoy the official Warranty Service from *EDGE Tactical Light Co. Ltd.* as stated above.


----------



## ankhbr (Nov 6, 2007)

Actually, the real "beta testers" will be the reviewers. 

From the original thread on CPFMP:


> *(FYI, we will send samples of the lights for review by Selfbuilt and x2x3x2 from CPF, we will also adopt the opinions/feedback from them to improve and better the products in mass production.)*


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 6, 2007)

KeeperSD,Thanks for the info.


----------



## thiswayup (Nov 6, 2007)

koala said:


> Without innovation is it possible for a Patent to be granted?



Yes. It happens all the time. The *claim* of innovation must be there, but the granting of a patent doesn't imply anything more than that the paperwork has been filled in correctly, and that the patent doesn't cover something that already obviously exists. See e.g. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0,1000000308,2121257,00.htm



> 19. * US07116061* Brightness controllable flashlights



To me this looks like a classic example of a nuisance patent. Notice how much of an effect it has had on the Photon Freedom. Genuine innovation in a patent sense means coming up with an idea that isn't obvious - so you can defend a patent for a particularly clever circuit for flashlight brightness, but you can't defend the very *idea* of a dimmable flashlight without the court's agreement that yes, the rest of the human race really was so stupid that they didn't realize this would be an attractive option as the tech became available. It's like someone trying to patent the idea of human flight before the Wright brothers, or even Cayley. 

In practice, tactics like this can very effective as an anti-competition measure - small innovators often can't afford the legal bill to contest junk patents. Didn't Maglite kill Arc with something similar?


----------



## andyz (Nov 6, 2007)

neoseikan said:


> JUST NOW, I phoned the producer, they told me that it is diffirent with Titan or U2.
> Doing something, you could see the light itself slide its brightness from weaker to stronger, when you find your choice,
> do something, the brightness will be cought and remembered.
> And the tail switch, it is a foward clickie, half-press and full-press may be linked to "2 level remembered brightnesss" (This is not comfirmed by them).
> ...


----------



## MetalZone (Nov 6, 2007)

andyz said:


> Hmmm, I may have got it right on my previous post. Twist & hold bezel left or right to ramp up or down the brightness and store it to the clickie



I thought about that exact same thing too when i read about it.
it has an 'X' on the rotating bezel so i guess thats what it is. sounds pretty cool to me.


----------



## aceo07 (Nov 6, 2007)

ankhbr said:


> Actually, the real "beta testers" will be the reviewers.
> 
> From the original thread on CPFMP:



If the reviewers are the beta testers, couldn't that imply the productions versions, which are being sold, may come at an even later date?


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 6, 2007)

aceo07 said:


> If the reviewers are the beta testers, couldn't that imply the productions versions, which are being sold, may come at an even later date?


They would have to come much later IMO wait for the reviewers input,improve the other 498 lights all in 2 weeks!possible I'm not that sure,unless they don't need to improve anything.


----------



## Gatsby (Nov 6, 2007)

Well if the developers truly are former employees/developers/owners of Jetbeam they can go one of two ways ... the first is that they learned their lessons and are only going to ship a product and market a product once it has been thoroughly tested and spec'ed out to meet the specific parameters which they are marketing (like HDS for example); or two they can follow a prior course of action and set a range of targeted parameters, market the targets and then strive to build a light that may or may not fulfill those parameters on the first go round. Let's hope they are following the first course but the prepay setup is not that encouraging in that regard. 

But I don't want to sink their ship prematurely and without any evidence other than the few crumbs we have now. If it is even a Liteflux with a clickie that is something many, including myself, have asked for (my only flaw with the liteflux is the twisty interface - works OK but would have really been a winner with a mechanical switch interface). 

But I have bought on an impulse before and it usually has not worked out well.


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## 83Venture (Nov 6, 2007)

All this excitement sort of answers the question. "Is the AA form factor finished, no longer interesting"?


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## luminata (Nov 6, 2007)

The way I see it is they have come right out and said we (CPF)are going to be like a large scale testing ground for the product. This could mean the manufacturer is going to put alot of time and effort into making these 500 lights the best defect free products they can, cause we will be very vocal about the results which will have a major affect on the future launch of this and other products. 
But even so, it has been my experience that every product seems to have gliches/problems/issues when it is first launched no matter who the manufacturer,except for maybe a couple custome builders here on CPF. 
Even the best of the best seem to have first run problems ie. Surefire/Novatac/Lumapower 
So to me based on my experience, There is a good chance this first run of
lights will have issues in QC or function that have not yet been realized by the manufacturer . The prototypes look awesome in the pics that is for sure. They intend on warrantying these beta lights which is a good thing ,though sending it back to the country of origin and getting a replacement could take a month or more. 
So is it a gamble for us? yep. a good many of us may get malfunctioning units and a good many may not. I myself am still debating whether to plunge in or not. I really like the looks of the light though. The kid in me says "send the money !!" . the adult says "wait young grasshopper,patience is a virtue". running out of time though.......:shrug:


----------



## EVOeight (Nov 6, 2007)

I can't believe how fast this thread filled up. It just goes to show how excited people are with a feature like stepless variable brightness. I think this is a good thing for sure. I look for all manufactors to follow suit and offer something similar.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 6, 2007)

83Venture said:


> All this excitement sort of answers the question. "Is the AA form factor finished, no longer interesting"?


Was that question ever actually asked?
A single AA can't power a multi-emitter solar-beam monstrosity, but they are still the most widely available power source. Even if we have already hit their limit, they're still perfectly good for EDC lights that don't need to be used for marine signalling.


----------



## nitecore (Nov 6, 2007)

Hey guys, here's the video of DI:
http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=4nfCZ8vQ5po

enjoy it:naughty:


----------



## WadeF (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks nitecore! Looks like a winner!


----------



## IcantC (Nov 6, 2007)

nitecore said:


> Hey guys, here's the video of DI:
> http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=4nfCZ8vQ5po
> 
> enjoy it:naughty:


 

Thanks for the vid! Any beamshot comparisons?

Also as Koala mentioned earlier



koala said:


> These are two nice light if you miss out the discount...
> 
> Hey Hey Look Look click here!
> 
> ...


 
Notice that looks exactly like the light in the vid? Hmmm I am debating buying it to see how similar/different it is?


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 6, 2007)

+1 I'm sold,looks very smooth operation.:twothumbs


----------



## Everett (Nov 6, 2007)

Wow, I was skeptical at first (about both light specs and nitecore reputability) but that video pushed me over the edge. Looked like the perfect UI in my opinion. Damnit, there goes my money...


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## nitecore (Nov 6, 2007)

Thank you everyone ^^^ 

answers for IcantC

1. As manufacturer, it's not convenient for us to compare our products with those of other manufacturers', so, as to the comparison of beamshots, we will have to leave it to our three reviewers. 

2. It has been more than half a year since we began the design of Defender Infinity, during whis period of time, some blueprints of the appearance was revealed through improper channels, some manufacturers who ingnore intellectual property rights and made products with similar appearance:mecry:. However, no matter capability, details, UI or even workmanship, NiteCore products are far more superior to those fake products, they are not within the same quality level and should not be compared actually.


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## gunga (Nov 6, 2007)

Interface looks to be a lot like a Liteflux with a clicky. I personally don't think it's a perfect interface.

Interesting how there is a strobe mode (thought there was none) and also the 2 stage memory is similar to the LIteflux again. 

The brightness ramping is a bit vague (like the liteflux). In other words, it's more liteflux than Novatac.

That said, I like it, and think it's worth a shot.


----------



## edc3 (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm feeling a lot better about jumping on the Paypal now that I've seen the video. I hate the strobe in my Fenix lights, but only because I have to cycle through it. Having strobe as an option to turn on or off without having to cycle through it is a good thing IMO. :twothumbs


----------



## MorpheusT1 (Nov 6, 2007)

xxx


----------



## nitecore (Nov 6, 2007)

gunga said:


> Interface looks to be a lot like a Liteflux with a clicky. I personally don't think it's a perfect interface.
> 
> Interesting how there is a strobe mode (thought there was none) and also the 2 stage memory is similar to the LIteflux again.
> 
> ...


 

Actually it's NOT Liteflux UI. The UI of D.I. is unique.
What we do is let the UI easy to use, make every operation can do very smoothly


----------



## Gatsby (Nov 6, 2007)

Interesting to see it in action. I think in the intro it said digitally controlled "infinite" brightness which to me at least suggested something like Liteflux/Novatac/LRI Proton/VB-16 rather than a mechanical switch ala Surefire - but I could be wrong. Which means that there are at least some discrete levels programmed into the light - might be 2000 (I doubt it) but some levels. It seems to transition smoothly enough - not that different than the Liteflux really. 

At this point - until a few other details are explained - I'm pretty happy with the Liteflux - which operates quite logically as a 2 level light once programmed - and gives you access to a third adjustable level (or leave it set). The clickie is a nice addition but it doesn't add that much functionality - sort of like a user adjustable Fenix L1T v2.0. 

Not a bad setup however - we'll see how additional details add up.

*Maybe in addition to the video we could have some sort of basic instruction set posted - what are the functions, how do the bezel and the switch work to access and implement those functions.* :shrug:


----------



## mchlwise (Nov 6, 2007)

MorpheusT1 said:


> This is not any diffrent than any of the other click until you drop UI`s.



It's really hard for me to tell from that video how the interface works. 

I was disappointed at first to see there was a strobe mode at all, but if it's hard enough to get into it MIGHT be o.k.

Do you have any experience with LiteFlux? 

LiteFlux involves a LOT of twisting (certainly nearing twist till you drop), but only to program it. Once it's programmed, LiteFlux is as easy as it could possibly be - twist a little for a little light, twist a lot for a lot of light. 

I wouldn't mind doing a tapdance on the Nitecore, if it's just to program it. 

We need LOTS more information about how the U.I. works.


----------



## nitecore (Nov 6, 2007)

edc3 said:


> I'm feeling a lot better about jumping on the Paypal now that I've seen the video. I hate the strobe in my Fenix lights, but only because I have to cycle through it. Having strobe as an option to turn on or off without having to cycle through it is a good thing IMO. :twothumbs


 

The strobe funtion can be hide in the UI very well, and can be startup immediacy as well when need. So, don't worry about it


----------



## robo21 (Nov 6, 2007)

nitecore said:


> Thank you everyone ^^^
> 
> answers for IcantC
> 
> 1. As manufacturer, it's not convenient for us to compare our products with those of other manufacturers', so, as to the comparison of beamshots, *we will have to leave it to our three reviewers.*


 
Who are the 3 reviewers please? I'm eager to see the reviews.


----------



## Gatsby (Nov 6, 2007)

mchlwise said:


> It's really hard for me to tell from that video how the interface works.
> 
> I was disappointed at first to see there was a strobe mode at all, but if it's hard enough to get into it MIGHT be o.k.
> 
> ...


 
MCHL - I think you and I have fairly similar views of these lights and UI in general (at least I find myself agreeing with many of the same positions/thoughts) - and I agree that I don't mind a bit of hopscotching to get it programmed as I tend to be a set it once and then use it person rather than tinkering with levels all the time (one reason the Titan infinite adjustable interface hasn't really spoken to me... or the Proton for that matter). I like a low low, a medium utility level and a max brightness runtime be doggoned level and have my lights setup that way. I do think that if I'm going to bother with a digital light I like the ability to program the levels myself rather than just using stock levels.


----------



## MorpheusT1 (Nov 6, 2007)

Nitecore,


If you could please try to explain exactly how it works.I may be convinced to keep my order.The video you shot only confused.
And i looked really hard to operate.


Benny


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 6, 2007)

robo21 said:


> Who are the 3 reviewers please? I'm eager to see the reviews.


Selfbuilt,x2x3x3 and Fastcar,I belive.


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 6, 2007)

I do somehow like it. 
I understand how you set up one brightness level (ON,twist and OFF-ON). But how do you set up the second brightness level?

How do you switch between these two brigthness levels? I guess by twisting the bezel?
Thank you.


----------



## nitecore (Nov 6, 2007)

MorpheusT1 said:


> Nitecore,
> 
> 
> If you could please try to explain exactly how it works.I may be convinced to keep my order.The video you shot only confused.
> ...


 

Well, We are preparing a operation manual, maybe can release within few days. I promise the operation can be very easy


----------



## Gatsby (Nov 6, 2007)

Benny - I agree that the video only gave me a little glimpse at how smoothly it transitions - but not much else!

This is an interesting sort of issue - the v2.2 flupic firmware IIRC was honed down from 20 some odd levels (more like Novatac/HDS) to 10 discrete levels which were close but clearly differentiated, as people didn't like so many levels so close together which made programming hard. Clearly some like a zillion points between A and B and some like handful of well chosen points between A and B. The Liteflux appears to have more than 10 (quite a few more) somewhere in the 20s probably. The lower levels are where you can see the discrete level ramping down. 

It remains interesting to see what this really does and I'll reiterate my hopeful request that:

*Perhaps we can see a basic instruction set which describes how the bezel and switch interact to get to different functions, and what those functions are...?* 

[Edited to add: I see that some instructions may be forthcoming! Maybe in the interim some basic ideas of how it works without every detail?]


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## MorpheusT1 (Nov 6, 2007)

nitecore said:


> Well, We are preparing a operation manual, maybe can release within few days. I promise the operation can be very easy



Thank you :bow:


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## PJD (Nov 6, 2007)

gunga said:


> Interface looks to be a lot like a Liteflux with a clicky. I personally don't think it's a perfect interface.
> 
> Interesting how there is a strobe mode (thought there was none) and also the 2 stage memory is similar to the LIteflux again.
> 
> ...



Gunga...I agree. I don't think it's the "perfect" interface either, but it's pretty damn close to being one of the best ones I've seen. In all reality, we may NEVER see the "perfect" UI. It does somewhat resemble the LF UI, with the advent of a clickie. The thing that made me sell my LF5 within two days of getting it was the "twisty UI"...while not "difficult", I found it to be a real PITA. The forward clicky on the EDGE Tac was the main selling point for me. I hope it pans out as presented. I don't even mind the strobe; as a matter of fact, I actually USE the strobe feature on some of my lights from time to time. The fact that you can "hide" the strobe in the EDGE Tac's UI until you actually need/want it is a real plus! 

Anyway, I'm anxiously awaiting the reviews from FASTCAR, selfbuilt and x2x3x2...



PJD


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## nitecore (Nov 6, 2007)

MorpheusT1 said:


> Thank you :bow:


 

You are so welcome


----------



## Gatsby (Nov 6, 2007)

Certainly based on the initial video the light it seems it will most likely compete with directly is the Liteflux. I obviously like the Liteflux (just bought an LF2 as my key ring light to go with my LF5) - but would most like an HDS in CR2 and AA formats. This light seems to be moving there with the clickie, but until I see how it works in the interface I'm going to reserve judgement. 

But even if the basic operation is Fenix L1T with the two levels easily programmed (i.e. swith it on/off with the clickie - choose level 1 or 2 with the bezel) that isn't a bad setup and it would have some appeal - as it would get similar functions to the LF but with a click instead of twist operation.

I do think that based on what I see it is not, in fact, a Titan for the masses and bears little resemblance to that light - which oddly might be a plus for me as I'm not sure the potentiometer interface is really my favorite or ideal setup.


----------



## IcantC (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks for the answers! Now can't wait to read user reviews and order one.


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## letezac (Nov 6, 2007)

Too much functions is not good, I like a lot the video, is better to think on an EDC than on Tactical W.

J.L.
Mexico.


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## ankhbr (Nov 6, 2007)

Nitecore:
What will be coming along with the light?
Like extra o-rings, filter(s), holster...

Thanks!


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 6, 2007)

nitecore said:


> Hey guys, here's the video of DI:
> http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=4nfCZ8vQ5po
> enjoy it


There was no mention of strobe mode in the specs of the light. I would have been happier without, as I specifically avoid lights with strobe mode. One way or the other, it always ends up getting in the way.
Let's hope the DI's interface makes it easier to just ignore it altogether.


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## BentHeadTX (Nov 6, 2007)

There I was riding my bicycle to work a week ago with my Fenix L1D CE blasting along as my helmet mounted light. Doing my normal thing by looking (and pointing) Upon my return to my house later in the day, the sky grew dark and it started to rain. I fired up the L1D CE and one soft press later I was in STROBE mode! Get the @#$%!! out of my way! (I like stobe mode) Throw a L2D RB100 on the frame or handlebar and get noticed. 

What would I do with a NiteCore Defender Infinity? Program it to last at least 1 hour and 45 minutes on high and keep the strobe function. A big :thumbsup: to NiteCore to program out the strobe or keep it enabled... choice is good! I like the idea of a single AA light with throw, programmability, forward clickie, scalloped bezel, good grip, good regulation with NiMH, good HA-III, Cree Q5 emitters, a REAL lanyard and strong construction (I think) 

Can we have any pictures of what the light looks like when taken apart? I want to see the positive and negative contacts specifically. The insides tell if the light is more Surefire style or Fenix style of light than outside image shots. 

Can I also predict if the Defender takes off, there will be a single AAA version? Since I am asking...maybe a 2AA body or extender?


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## koala (Nov 6, 2007)

BentHeatTX - it's something like this...
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8752

I believe the DI has much better coating and the knurling should be more civilized. Nitecore claimed that their design was stolen and reproduced.


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## Burgess (Nov 6, 2007)

Can't wait to read some reviews !



_


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## curry__muncha (Nov 7, 2007)

BentHeadTX said:


> There I was riding my bicycle to work a week ago with my Fenix L1D CE blasting along as my helmet mounted light. Doing my normal thing by looking (and pointing) Upon my return to my house later in the day, the sky grew dark and it started to rain. I fired up the L1D CE and one soft press later I was in STROBE mode! Get the @#$%!! out of my way! (I like stobe mode) Throw a L2D RB100 on the frame or handlebar and get noticed.
> 
> What would I do with a NiteCore Defender Infinity? Program it to last at least 1 hour and 45 minutes on high and keep the strobe function. A big :thumbsup: to NiteCore to program out the strobe or keep it enabled... choice is good! I like the idea of a single AA light with throw, programmability, forward clickie, scalloped bezel, good grip, good regulation with NiMH, good HA-III, Cree Q5 emitters, a REAL lanyard and strong construction (I think)
> 
> ...



well put!.. i agree 100%

Also, a 2AA extender would be noice! :thumbsup:


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## Tubor (Nov 7, 2007)

Yes reviews. Then buy I will.


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## Fallingwater (Nov 7, 2007)

More than AAA and 2AA versions, I think Nitecore's next product should be a 123 version...


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## curry__muncha (Nov 7, 2007)

Oh yeah, NiteCore,

Is the 180Lumens on a Single AA based on output from the front or output from the LED?


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## Daniel_sk (Nov 7, 2007)

Definitely out of the LED, and even these are probably exagerated numbers. As long as it's at least as bright as the Fenix L1D CE or a little brighter with good regulation, it will be more than good for me.


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## ChadPhelps (Nov 7, 2007)

To those that watched the video is it just me or does the beam look pretty ringy? Maybe I have just gotten spoiled, by SSC emitter lights, but that looked pretty nasty. I'm just trying to figure out if it was camera settings or not. If the beam really has that dark ring around the hotspot, I might not buy.


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## robo21 (Nov 7, 2007)

ChadPhelps said:


> To those that watched the video is it just me or does the beam look pretty ringy? Maybe I have just gotten spoiled, by SSC emitter lights, but that looked pretty nasty. I'm just trying to figure out if it was camera settings or not. If the beam really has that dark ring around the hotspot, I might not buy.


 
I wouldn't call it "ringy" but there apparently seems to be a ring around the hotspot in the video. My Fenix P1D CE Q5 has an even more noticeable ring.


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## sims2k (Nov 7, 2007)

koala said:


> BentHeatTX - it's something like this...
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8752
> 
> I believe the DI has much better coating and the knurling should be more civilized. Nitecore claimed that their design was stolen and reproduced.



I actually bought the MTE C3 20-Mode Rebel Flashlight (AA / 0100-BIN) plus the Romisen RC-F4 and should be getting them in a weeks time. So if the MTE C3 is a clone of the Nitecore ... that would be one interesting clone indeed.


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## ChadPhelps (Nov 7, 2007)

robo21 said:


> My Fenix P1D CE Q5 has an even more noticeable ring.



So did mine actually. It bothered me when using it to walk the dogs and I ended up selling it after about a week. I guess I like a more gradual blend like on the Novatac. No big deal I'm sure but it really does bug me for some reason.


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## xiaowenzu (Nov 8, 2007)

hmmm... but this Titan clone doesn't have total, seamless control—over 1,000 possible output levels like the real one..  I guess that's one of the reasons _why_ we'd want the real thing.


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 8, 2007)

This isn't a Titan clone for god's sake... its just a very poor thread title!


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## vetkaw63 (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm curious as to how many jumped on the Titan presale. Anybody know?
Thanks.
Mike


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## Size15's (Nov 8, 2007)

vetkaw63 said:


> I'm curious as to how many jumped on the Titan presale. Anybody know?
> Thanks.
> Mike


Including those from CPF I'd guess about 800-900 units were pre-ordered - mostly without deposits or any payment being asked for. 
If you view the CPF MarketPlace there is a Dealer who listed plenty of CPF members.
I think the difference is that SureFire has like 20 years of excellent reputation and will in all likelihood have 20 more. That's a bit of a difference compared to companies measuring their age in weeks or perhaps months.

Just so we're clear - I wouldn't even pre-pay for a $50 SureFire that nobody has seen. I like to exchange my money for goods and services - not for the promise of goods and services in the future. It makes me nervous even paying for insurance because I'm not actually getting anything for my money as I could never need to make a claim! :green: I prefer to pay at point of sale.

Al


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## curry__muncha (Nov 8, 2007)

xiaowenzu said:


> hmmm... but this Titan clone doesn't have total, seamless control—over 1,000 possible output levels like the real one..  I guess that's one of the reasons _why_ we'd want the real thing.





PhantomPhoton said:


> This isn't a Titan clone for god's sake... its just a very poor thread title!



yep.. i agree.. honestly.. the thread title needs a change.

And also :ironic: @ some of the poeople who post without reading what the thread ACTUALLY is about.. 

On a similar note, netiquette htese days is just almost non existent with idiots who just make threads etc. withought even using the search funciton.. such low life imo.
</rant>

On Topic: Well i think its ok to put a deposit down for some cases. This being one of them. Im sure the light is up to all its specs which it states.
The only one which im(and many other people) have concern about is whether it can actually hold a 180Lumen output for 50 mins from a single eneloop. But even if the runtimes and output is exaggerated by a little bit, i still think its not gonna be too bad. Im quite a fan of its interface.

Just gotta see how the reviews go aye


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## Marduke (Nov 8, 2007)

vetkaw63 said:


> I'm curious as to how many jumped on the Titan presale. Anybody know?
> Thanks.
> Mike



The OP in the sales thread in the MP lists sales, 232 as of yesterday.


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 8, 2007)

I think the title of this thread should read. Nitecore Defender Infinity-CPF'RS Mass for the Defender Infinity.

Me included!


----------



## Trashman (Nov 8, 2007)

Marduke said:


> The OP in the sales thread in the MP lists sales, 232 as of yesterday.



I saw that and wondered why they have the numbers of the reserved lights up past #500?


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## wwglen (Nov 8, 2007)

The number are the POST numbers in which people obligated to buy and actually paid. 

wwglen


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## LedLad (Nov 8, 2007)

I smell lots of flashaholics burning for some reason. Hope I'm wrong.


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## StefanFS (Nov 8, 2007)

I have taken a number of "leaps of faith" with various new manufacturers from the big country in the east. All have been successful so far. Some initial research never hurt before comitting funds. But, being on the cutting edge in any field do require that one has to gamble a bit.
Stefan


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## AnimalHousePA (Nov 8, 2007)

PhantomPhoton said:


> This isn't a Titan clone for god's sake... its just a very poor thread title!


I agree with this statement. Apples and oranges.


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## WadeF (Nov 8, 2007)

Yeah, the topic title doesn't really make sense, we're comparing an AA tactical light with a jewlery light. The title may have made sense if the Nitecore did infact have a dial that let you adjust the brightness, but it looks like you have to hold down the button to get to the brigthness you want, then store in memory. That's good enough for me, I can set 1 stage to be full brigthness, and 1 stage set to low-low, medium, or whatever. 

I just hope this light lives up to the hype and we get them when promissed.


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## falconx (Nov 8, 2007)

Does anyone know if any of the reviewers have received their samples yet? I was hoping to get some feedback on the UI and runtimes before I pay, if its anywhere near the level of my L2D on turbo (175 lumens) then I'll be really impressed..


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## Diode (Nov 8, 2007)

The UI doesn't seem very "tactical" to me.


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## WadeF (Nov 8, 2007)

Diode said:


> The UI doesn't seem very "tactical" to me.


 
Forward clicky? What's not tactical about it? I beleive you can disable the strobe, and I would guess you could program each stage to max if you want to signal, flash it, etc. I'm not sure how you chage modes (stages), it maybe a twist to, or maybe a tap on the forward clicky.


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## Diode (Nov 8, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Forward clicky? What's not tactical about it? I beleive you can disable the strobe, and I would guess you could program each stage to max if you want to signal, flash it, etc. I'm not sure how you chage modes (stages), it maybe a twist to, or maybe a tap on the forward clicky.


I can't tell from the video. Does it have true momentary?


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## ingokl (Nov 8, 2007)

Diode said:


> I can't tell from the video. Does it have true momentary?



I asked them and their answer was:
" Yes, it's tactical momentary on clicky."


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## x2x3x2 (Nov 8, 2007)

Here's some info that hopefully clears up some wondering minds 

Switch:
Its a forward push button which allows for momentary activation when half-pressed. Constant on when fully clicked. A half-turn anti-clockwise of the tail cap locks out the switch.

Tactical Mode (bezel tightened): Provides either 100% brightness or strobe.
Loosen>Tighten the bezel within 0.5 second to switch between the 2.

User-Defined Mode (bezel loosened): Infinitely variable brightness.
Tighten>Loosen the bezel within 0.5 second ramps from high to low.
Tighten>Loosen again ramps from low to high.
When the desired brightness level is reach, turn off the light by click the switch to save to memory.


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## gunga (Nov 8, 2007)

Interesting...

Not bad. TOo bad you have to turn it off to save to memory, but I'm liking this a lot more than the Liteflux UI.

Might have to pick up a second one...

If you have a review sample, you must post an opinion soon, PLEASE!

:thumbsup:


----------



## robo21 (Nov 8, 2007)

I doubt that the review samples are available yet. The info is probably from a pre-release manual.


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## gunga (Nov 8, 2007)

Okay.

Still, that info is not bad. It's a simpler implementation of what liteflux kinda had. Also somewhat similar to olight.

Most of the time you just use the 2 set modes. Strobe can be accessed when needed but is hidden.

Programming sounds easy.

I like it...


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## robo21 (Nov 8, 2007)

gunga said:


> Okay.
> 
> Still, that info is not bad. It's a simpler implementation of what liteflux kinda had. Also somewhat similar to olight.
> 
> ...


 
Ditto and likewise - I agree! :twothumbs


----------



## TacticalGrilling (Nov 8, 2007)

Does this mean we'll see a review soon? This is the most detailed info I've seen yet...


x2x3x2 said:


> Here's some info that hopefully clears up some wondering minds
> 
> Switch:
> Its a forward push button which allows for momentary activation when half-pressed. Constant on when fully clicked. A half-turn anti-clockwise of the tail cap locks out the switch.
> ...


----------



## jsr (Nov 8, 2007)

A couple of questions:

1. How do you change between Tactical and User-Defined modes?

2. In User-Defined mode, can you set save separate high and low levels to switch between? If so, how?

Thanks.


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## x2x3x2 (Nov 8, 2007)

robo21, gunga

I got the EMS tracking #, so hopefully anytime now baring any shipping hiccups.


jsr

1. As stated,
Tactical mode is when bezel is tightened.
User-Defined mode is when bezel is loosened.

2. The user-defined mode is seen one state (bezel loosened), so only one brightness settings can be saved on this loosened bezel position.
Not like the LiteFlux which can have user-defined levels at P1 and P2.


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 9, 2007)

I thought you could save two light modes ie from OP.


Two-stage memory function, can be switched easily:thinking:

And on the video it shows two memory in any configuration.ie strobe and low set or low and high set.

Have I got this wrong.


----------



## thiswayup (Nov 9, 2007)

ChadPhelps said:


> So did mine actually. It bothered me when using it to walk the dogs and I ended up selling it after about a week. I guess I like a more gradual blend like on the Novatac. No big deal I'm sure but it really does bug me for some reason.



If you're using a light to see where you are putting your feet, then a ring can be a real nuisance. Hides things and messes up your eyes' tracking.


----------



## stephan2148 (Nov 9, 2007)

I was hoping that this light was loosen to dim, tighten to brighten. Start out at medium. Spring loaded center position. Loosen by threads is kind of cheesy. If you cannot like wake up the UI with a twist then you need your tail button. Can you change it maybe for simple pick up and go like this??
"By adopting unique Infinitely variable Digital-controlled Brightness System and simplified UI (user interface), users can set any levels of output for this light by themselves easily"
I would think that is easiest and most convenient, but my opinion. 
Is it that this simple and obvious idea is patented?
To me it seems the most simple without a button at all, just twist bezel.
Pick it up, simple twist turns it on to medium and starts ramping in the direction chosen. Let go and that position stays, possibly eeprom written. Work on the shut off part.
Can we get the code to modify ourselves to do this?
If this idea is not patented, maybe this post shows idea disclosure, but it seems too obvious. Cheers.

*edit*
BTW, I made a incandescent AA light like this with an up and down button only in 1994. PIC micro. Wake up on button press. I should find that and put a LED in it


----------



## Vikas Sontakke (Nov 9, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Here's some info that hopefully clears up some wondering minds
> 
> User-Defined Mode (bezel loosened): Infinitely variable brightness.
> Tighten>Loosen the bezel within 0.5 second ramps from high to low.
> ...



This is telling me that ramp-up and ramp-down are controlled by exactly the same user action. I am not particularly fond of this type of interface.

Why do not have
Spring Loaded Loosen < Normal > Spring Loaded Tighten
Dims < Same > Brightens

Quick double click on tail clicky goes from UserSaved_1 to UserSaved_2

This gives you:-
1) Two mode light with the ability to come on low or high as user saved preference
1A) Low to high (or high to low) is switched by quick click of tail switch
1C) Light always comes on with UserSaved_1 brightness; this makes people who want it to come it on low to preserve their nightvision and people who want to come on at full blast are both satisfied.
2) Changing the brightness is simple and intutive, make the brightness ramp up quick enough; full range in about 2 seconds; make it behave deterministically
3) To save the user preference, define program_save mode with some not normally used sequence (double click ??)
3) NO SURPRISES
4) If strobe is needed, define some crazy sequence like "dim/bright/dim/bright/dim/bright" and click your heals or "on/off/on/off/on/off" 
5) Essentially given that you have 3 switches, there has to be a simpler way of interfacing

- Vikas


----------



## WadeF (Nov 9, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Tactical Mode (bezel tightened): Provides either 100% brightness or strobe.
> Loosen>Tighten the bezel within 0.5 second to switch between the 2.
> 
> User-Defined Mode (bezel loosened): Infinitely variable brightness.
> ...


 
Thank for the info! It makes more sense now, especially when watching the video again after reading that. 

So it sounds like there is only ONE user set mode, as far as brightness. So you can either turn the light on in the user set mode with the bezel loose, start in max with the bezel tight. I wonder if you can start in strobe? If you engage strobe, turn the light off, then turn it back on later will it still be in strobe? 

It sounds like a well thought out UI that should be very functional. Looks pretty quik and easy to adjust the user set mode, you can signal with the forward clicky in MAX, or your user set mode, without worry of it changing modes. Hopefully the user set mode will let you go lower and lowe until the LED is just about off. In the video it is kind of hard to tell just how low you can go before you reach the end of the range, I'll have to watch again.


----------



## aceo07 (Nov 9, 2007)

Yes, I think the video did show that the strobe came back on after the light was off. So, it can save the last mode used.

I, too, was concerned about the UI. It seemed a bit strange that this topic has a title with reference to Titan, but nobody could confirm how the UI was... especially the manufacturer.

I was disappointed that they would not provide simple instructions on usage, except to tell us that we should wait for their manual.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 9, 2007)

aceo07 said:


> Yes, I think the video did show that the strobe came back on after the light was off.


 
After I watched the video again noticed that too. No more worry about having to skip over a strobe, but it is nice to know it's a quick twist away if you need it.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 9, 2007)

One thing puzzles me,why send out lights to reviewers or testers first,when hundreds have already purchased lights..what earthly good is a review after the fact..Ok reviewers say "well guys sorry it is not as it looked on paper"what then Hmmm refund "yeah maybe" but it seems pointless IMO ie purchase..review.. then if not happy ask for refund,this way it could back fire "BIG TIME".

IMO it should have been review and test lights,buyers purchase lights ,this way the likely hood of buyers asking for refunds reduced.

BTW I am not having ago at anyone,it is just my opinion.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 9, 2007)

In user-adjustable mode, can you momentary on with the saved light level? I guess we'll have to wait for a review for that one.


----------



## chadwide (Nov 9, 2007)

Am I the only one frustrated with this UI? It sounds dramatically more complicated then I think a typical user would want. A UI should be designed to be intuitive, which is why lights that sequence through modes are fairly common. It only takes a few seconds to understand whats going to happen when you push the button even with no instructions. I'm vary annoyed that this light, which advertised a simple interface, requires the user to perform the same action to get different results (Tighten-Loosen to go high to low, tighten loosen to go low to high) 


Also, in the user defined mode why does the High to low dimming occur before the low to high ramping? Won't this kill night vision? How can I start the light in low? 

Sorry fort he rant, but if this is what a manufacture considers a simple interface then we must speak different languages.


----------



## bspofford (Nov 9, 2007)

chadwide said:


> Sorry fort he rant, but if this is what a manufacture considers a simple interface then we must speak different languages.


 
Chinese and English are different languages, and language often reflects differences in culture. A number of years ago, I noticed that Japanese was also a "different language." I am used to light switches where up is on and down is off. Japanese light switches seem to be up for off and down for on. Many of the "simple" operations in my Toyota Landcruiser seem backwards to me. Maybe it is a difference in culture rather than language, but what seems obvious in American culture is often reversed in others. And in Britain where they speak English, they drive on the wrong side of the road!


----------



## vetkaw63 (Nov 9, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> One thing puzzles me,why send out lights to reviewers or testers first,when hundreds have already purchased lights..what earthly good is a review after the fact..Ok reviewers say "well guys sorry it is not as it looked on paper"what then Hmmm refund "yeah maybe" but it seems pointless IMO ie purchase..review.. then if not happy ask for refund,this way it could back fire "BIG TIME".
> 
> IMO it should have been review and test lights,buyers purchase lights ,this way the likely hood of buyers asking for refunds reduced.
> 
> BTW I am not having ago at anyone,it is just my opinion.



They were trying to generate interest which, they did!
A lot of us are waiting for a review before paying.


----------



## robo21 (Nov 9, 2007)

bspofford said:


> And in Britain where they speak English, they drive on the wrong side of the road!


 
:thumbsup:


----------



## TOOCOOL (Nov 9, 2007)

bspofford said:


> And in Britain where they speak English, they drive on the wrong side of the road!



and in the U.S. they drive on parkways and park on driveways :kiss:


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 9, 2007)

vetkaw63 said:


> They were trying to generate interest which, they did!
> A lot of us are waiting for a review before paying.


I know a lot are waiting before paying..It was not them I was talking about.However I do get your point about generating interest


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 9, 2007)

TOOCOOL said:


> and in the U.S. they drive on parkways and park on driveways :kiss:


:lolsign:


----------



## moses (Nov 10, 2007)

I still think the perfect interface would be to have the rotating head of the Spy 005 (or it is 007?) on the AA light. 6 levels clicks through in a circle. Add a tail switch if you want so that it 'remembers' the last setting.

Mo


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

Well, its finally here  Here's as short rundown.
- The UI works exactly as described.
- Forward push button works well with the UI.
- Internal of battery tube has a light layer coating which gives it a slight bronze hue.
- Knurling is very well done.
- Light sometimes wobbles when placed head-down due to the 3-point crenellation.

So far, I've found 1 kink in the UI. However it would be pre-mature for me to conclude on it for now.
I should do further testing on this light before putting up a complete preview on the site.
Also, do take note that mine is a preview sample.

Btw, if you guys want me to take pictures of any particular parts/views just post here and I'll try to take em for you


----------



## Kilovolt (Nov 10, 2007)

Fantastic!! We are all waiting for your Word.....

:twothumbs


----------



## skalomax (Nov 10, 2007)

Can't wait for his awesome review.


----------



## andyz (Nov 10, 2007)

Looks well built for the money, glad I got a couple


----------



## fredb (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Btw, if you guys want me to take pictures of any particular parts/views just post here and I'll try to take em for you



Pics of the front of the head and rear of the tail would be groovy!


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

fredb,

Here you go:


----------



## fredb (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> fredb,
> 
> Here you go:



That was crazy fast service! Thank you sir!


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Nov 10, 2007)

fredb said:


> That was crazy fast service! Thank you sir!



+1, thank you


----------



## turan8 (Nov 10, 2007)

Does anyone know when these lights ship?


----------



## gunga (Nov 10, 2007)

Shiping is end of Nov.

x2x3x2, is it potted? Okay for emitter upgrade?

I'm not sure if I like the only 1 memory position, as I'd like 3 modes total, but it could be very nice...

I'll wait for the review.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2,

what we really want to know is, how does it compare with its competitors(ie. Fenix, Jetbeam, etc) in fit and finish and output from a casual non-technical perspective. Thanks and nice pictures.


----------



## curry__muncha (Nov 10, 2007)

bspofford said:


> And in Britain where they speak English, they drive on the wrong side of the road!


lol, mate.. you got that the other way around.. its you guys who are driving on the wrong side of the road ..

majority of countries in the world drive on the left side.



TOOCOOL said:


> and in the U.S. they drive on parkways and park on driveways :kiss:



 :thumbsup:



x2x3x2 said:


> <snip>


sweet!!.. those pics look nice.. keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## KevinL (Nov 10, 2007)

Not bad, it looks decent. Hopefully all the naysayers doubts get put to rest soon 

(even Atomic Chicken came back.. so there is hope....  )


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

gunga,
Yes my sample is potted. The pill is not easily removed from the head.

illmatic,
As a rough comparison, the Defender on 100% level running on an Eneloop cell is about as bright as an Olight T10 running on a CR123 cell.
This is pretty amazing considering the 1.2V vs 3.0V power source. Now, lets see what runtime I can squeeze of of it...
Also note that the Defender uses a Q5 bin emitter while the standard T10 uses an unknown bin.


----------



## KevinL (Nov 10, 2007)

It looks like it has a twist head as well. Does the head change modes like the Fenix lights? The design looks similar.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

KevinL,
Yes it does have a twist head. See post #293.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2,from your picture it looks like it will tail stand,is this the case.
Thanks.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

TITAN1833,
Mine doesn't tail stand as the rubber button cap slightly protrudes.


----------



## KevinL (Nov 10, 2007)

Thanks, I missed that post earlier. I was hoping it would be a U2 style ring, but it seems to be a simple ramp up/down design a bit like the Lionheart UI0 (though that one was hold down to ramp). 

Oh well, can't have everything. And for $50 I still think it's good value. The tactical mode reminds me of the Fenix P2D, which works in a similar way. Tighten bezel down for Turbo mode/strobe, tap clickie to change. Probably easier to do that than to keep twisting and turning the bezel.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> TITAN1833,
> Mine doesn't tail stand as the rubber button cap slightly protrudes.


Thanks,easily remedied with a O-RING.BTW thanks for the quick responses to peoples questions.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 10, 2007)

Can you signal with it or does it reset with multiple soft-presses? 

Thanks for the pics & info! :twothumbs (I can wait if you're doing a runtime test!)


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

Tubor,
Yes you can. The changing of modes/levels is only done via twists of the head.


----------



## glockboy (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> the Defender on 100% level running on an Eneloop cell is about as bright as an Olight T10 running on a CR123 cell.



Can you compare the brightness to the Fenix P3D?
Thanks


----------



## Teodoryk (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2,

Can You please explain this:

Two-stage memory function, can be switched easily;

thanx


----------



## illmatic (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2,

Thanks for the comparison and quick response. Looks like my 40 bucks is gonna be well spent.


----------



## nerdgineer (Nov 10, 2007)

curry__muncha said:


> lol, mate.. you got that the other way around.. its you guys who are driving on the wrong side of the road ..
> 
> majority of countries in the world drive on the left side...


According to wikipedia, 164 countries drive on the right and 75 drive on the left. By population, 66% drive on the right; by road mileage, 72% drive on the right......:laughing:


----------



## BentHeadTX (Nov 10, 2007)

Thanks for the pictures of the head and tail,
Alas, it looks like the typical Fenix with a plain curcuit board for the positive contact. No sealed epoxy with a brass (or gold plated) button.  
That is OK, I played around with my stainless steel Peak 2AA Mediterranean today. My bomb-proof light needs not to worry about NiteCore.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

Sorry, just have to stress it again that mine is a preview sample.

1. My sample was hand worked, production wil be by SMT.
2. All the copper parts as seen on my sample will be replaced by gold plated contacts in the production version.
3. Improved contact for the "+" point.
4. Switch timing is still under consideration. My sample has a 1 second switch time. Currently planned is a 0.5 second switch time.
ie. Longer buffer time to do a twist on my sample, though doesn't effect the switching speed since it just depends on how fast you twist.


----------



## daywalker (Nov 10, 2007)

If the circuit is a bit like the LF2, i would prefer to have the switch timing at 1 second. It is very hard to twist the LF2 within those 0,5 seconds espacially if you want to go to the upper modes.




x2x3x2 said:


> Sorry, just have to stress it again that mine is a preview sample.
> 
> 1. My sample was hand worked, production wil be by SMT.
> 2. All the copper parts as seen on my sample will be replaced by gold plated contacts in the production version.
> ...


----------



## zerafull (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 you will make a complete review for tomorow on your website ?

i can't wait, you are excelent


----------



## robo21 (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Well, its finally here  Here's as short rundown.
> - The UI works exactly as described.
> - Forward push button works well with the UI.
> - Internal of battery tube has a light layer coating which gives it a slight bronze hue.
> ...


 
Thank you very much for the photos and info. I'm eager to read your preview/review. :twothumbs

Nice photos BTW! :thumbsup:


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Sorry, just have to stress it again that mine is a preview sample.
> 
> 1. My sample was hand worked, production wil be by SMT.
> 2. All the copper parts as seen on my sample will be replaced by gold plated contacts in the production version.
> ...


As the other CPFer contacted by the manufacturer to review this light, I can confirm that I have received the same information (although they said the copper parts would be replaced with "glit" in the production version, whatever that means exactly).

FYI, I have just received my EMS tracking info from EDGETAC. But before you all get too excited, it typically takes about a week for EMS shipments to reach me from China. And it will take me a couple of of days to assemble the preliminary results. I'm sure x2x3x2 will have his pretty well completely dissected by then! 

I'll keep you posted ... :wave:


----------



## Bort (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> gunga,
> Yes my sample is potted. The pill is not easily removed from the head.
> 
> illmatic,
> ...



Nice! How is the brightness running a 14500 cell?


----------



## WadeF (Nov 10, 2007)

Sounds good x2x3x2! Looking forward to your full review. I would think it would be brighter with a 1.5v akaline, or 3v lithium. I have two AW 14500's here waiting for their new home.


----------



## nanotech17 (Nov 10, 2007)

yes sounds good


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

Hi guys,
On 14500 cell, 100% brightness is almost identical to a Fenix P2D R100 on "Turbo" running a 16340 cell.


----------



## Paul6ppca (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Hi guys,
> On 14500 cell, 100% brightness is almost identical to a Fenix P2D R100 on "Turbo" running a 16340 cell.


 

We will wait for your review.

Thanks


----------



## nanotech17 (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Hi guys,
> On 14500 cell, 100% brightness is almost identical to a Fenix P2D R100 on "Turbo" running a 16340 cell.



does it has protection circuit like the LF5


----------



## LG&M (Nov 10, 2007)

Paul6ppca said:


> So where is a mini review,the longer it takes the more suspicious it seems.I would have thought some first impressions would have been posted by now.Did I miss them????
> Just Bits of info scattered thru out this post.


 I call all the info he has given so far a mini review. I am sure he will post the whole thing when it's done. The other reviewer haven't even got the light yet.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 10, 2007)

Sorry for not putting up the review as soon as you'd like.

Please understand that, like you all, I'm also into this as a hobby.
In addition, I'm currently into the end of my uni semester and have 2 big projects due real soon.

Basically as LG&M said, I tried to post as much info as fast as I could in this thread.
I've provided pictures per requests and answered questions the best I could.

I don't understand what might be suspecious of this? I Just need me some time to do my stuff...


----------



## TacticalGrilling (Nov 10, 2007)

x2x3x2,
Look's like you're doing just fine so far. Main question would be: is it worth, in your opinion, the $40, $50, or $60 they're asking in the Marketplace? I have an older Lux JetBeam I'd love to replace with something like this. Otherwise, it may be time to go with the MKII.R. Just curious. Thanks!

Be Safe, Grill Tactical.

-Nick
TacticalGrilling.com


----------



## curry__muncha (Nov 10, 2007)

nerdgineer said:


> According to wikipedia, 164 countries drive on the right and 75 drive on the left. By population, 66% drive on the right; by road mileage, 72% drive on the right......:laughing:



lol.. srs? =S... hmmk.. i thought i read in some factbook that most countries drive on left.. my bad.

--
hmm.. judging by the output comments, it seems to be running:
eneloop: ~135 Lumens
14500: ~175 Lumens

not the 180Lumens | 190Lumens respectively as stated.

personally i think x2x3x2 has given enough info for us to be confident in the nitecore. lets wait for the proper final full review.


----------



## Pokerstud (Nov 11, 2007)

x2x3x2,

Your doing the best you can, which is always first rate, and we appreciate it. There are, at times, more important things in life other than a flashlight, and some people have to understand that. Do what you can, when you can.:thumbsup:


----------



## daywalker (Nov 11, 2007)

Thank you x2x3x2,

for what you have done so far regarding the Nitecore Defender. You have answered the questions really quick before your complete review and that is a good job. As long as it is only a hobby it has to stay behind personal belongings.
:twothumbs :twothumbs for x2x3x2


----------



## AFAustin (Nov 11, 2007)

Absolutely correct. x2x3x2, thank you for all your efforts on the Nitecore offering, and for all the valuable, high quality information, reviews, etc., you contribute to CPF. School comes first!


----------



## Paul6ppca (Nov 11, 2007)

AFAustin said:


> Absolutely correct. x2x3x2, thank you for all your efforts on the Nitecore ofering, and for all the valuable, high quality information, reviews, etc., you contribute to CPF. School comes first!


 
Yes thank you for your time and info! I was just givin you a hard time,take care of school first! We will wait.I was trying to decide on sending paypal or not. I finally did ,seems like they are representing thier product accuratly.!


----------



## Bort (Nov 11, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Hi guys,
> On 14500 cell, 100% brightness is almost identical to a Fenix P2D R100 on "Turbo" running a 16340 cell.



Thanks! 
I also want to thank you for your great review site. I have it bookmarked, and reference it frequently. 
Cheers
Bill


----------



## sb_pete (Nov 12, 2007)

Said with heavy tone of sarcasm said:


> "Argh, WTF x2x3x2!?! I don't care if you are a hardworking university student with lots of things to do which could affect the rest of your life. I want my free, detailed, and comprehensive review of a flashlight which is not yet on the market which you promised to do in your spare time NOW!!!"



lol, some people need to chill. That wasn't directed at anyone in particular BTW. More intended as comic relief since all of us are getting a bit worked up about this light. x2x3x2, thanks for agreeing to do this review and thanks for the pics AND thanks for all the info.

I understand how this light works much better now. When you get a chance I've got a couple o' q's.

1. Do you know if our "pre-production" versions will be the same as the one you received? you state various to-be-implemented adjustments like gold plated contacts in post 345 . Have you received any word on whether these changes will be implemented on the run of 500 "pre-production" models we are receiving or only on the latter "production" models coming in "early 2008"?

2. If ours will have changes vs the review sample you received and you have some impact on what those changes will be, might I suggest:a. 5 point crenelation instead of 3 for more solid nose stand​b. Make it able to tailstand or even better would be ship with multiple user-replaceable switch covers. I'm sure they were already planning on shipping with a REPLACEMENT switch cover (like olight, fenix, jetbeam and others do), but it would be nice if they shipped with multiple tail switch cover OPTIONS (like lumapower i think does).​c. A REVERSIBLE POCKET CLIP!!!!​3. a couple of picture requests:-The light with the paracord lanyard attached. Preferably one shot from a distance and another macro shot detailing the connection ring.
-A size comparison shot to something else common (fenix, olight, jetbeam, heck just a shot in the palm of your hand, you know.)​Thanks again x2x3x2. 
-Pete


----------



## KevinL (Nov 12, 2007)

YYYYYYYYYYYESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Nitecore is listening, I WANT MY REVERSIBLE POCKET CLIP!!

Actually it doesn't need to be reversible. It needs to face the bezel like the Surefire U2's clip. That, IMO, is the ultimate clip for my needs. I ask for reversible too, since I am kind, considerate, and thoughtful sick2: not  ) and think of other people who may prefer the traditional pocket clip


----------



## FASTCAR (Nov 12, 2007)

Will review mine in a few days.Want to really get to know it.

For those that dont know:
What we 3 testers got seems to be 3 hand made lights.
They are a bit more crude then what the mass produced versions will be.
IMO this is great.Everything seems 95% right.I think this was the plan.

Get it real close..and let us figure out the small details.Rather then just produce what seems best..and 2/3 of CPF be unhappy.

Who ever coined in this thread " beta tester" was dead on.


----------



## Marlite (Nov 12, 2007)

x2x3x2

Cannot understand how you can do so many detailed reviews and also go to University at the same time. Yeah, your "hectic hobby" relaxes you.

_ With all this brightness the light_ _must heat up fas_t_?_ The 1st post shows demo man using heavy gloves......thanks for all the great reviews.

marlite 



x2x3x2 said:


> Sorry for not putting up the review as soon as you'd like.
> 
> Please understand that, like you all, I'm also into this as a hobby.
> In addition, I'm currently into the end of my uni semester and have 2 big projects due real soon.
> ...


----------



## jsr (Nov 12, 2007)

Thanks for the detailed info and pics x2x3x2! Good luck with your semester!

The Edgetac is starting to sound like a perfect AA light. It operates similarly to my L1D where I can set it to low in user-mode, twist the head to get high, and strobe is a push away. Unlike the L1D, it looks to be smaller (the L1D is pretty big for a 1AA light IMO), and has a momentary which I love.

As others suggested, a CLIP would be simply amazing! I don't understand why 1AA lights aren't offered with pocket clips. I clip all my lights in my pocket.


----------



## Bushman5 (Nov 12, 2007)

its just a flashlight people.....

sheesh :sick2:


----------



## curry__muncha (Nov 12, 2007)

Bushman5 said:


> its just a flashlight people.....
> 
> sheesh :sick2:



=O :candle:


----------



## ankhbr (Nov 12, 2007)

sb_pete said:


> b. Make it able to tailstand or even better would be ship with multiple user-replaceable switch covers. I'm sure they were already planning on shipping with a REPLACEMENT switch cover (like olight, fenix, jetbeam and others do), but it would be nice if they shipped with multiple tail switch cover OPTIONS (like lumapower i think does).​



+1 on that.

EDGETAC: It would be nice if it could tailstand. And if there could be an option of a GITD switch, it would be even nicer!


----------



## ingokl (Nov 12, 2007)

ankhbr said:


> +1 on that.
> 
> EDGETAC: It would be nice if it could tailstand. And if there could be an option of a GITD switch, it would be even nicer!




I asked them about the tailstanding again. EDGETEC seems to be very responsive and listen to our suggestions. They are earning many points with me. Their answer was:

Dear ingokl,

Thanks for the message.

Maybe changing the rubber cap will help, I will have this discussed with our desingers, thanks!

Best Regards,
EDGETAC


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 12, 2007)

Tail-standing isn't that important for me. I like the "agressive" rubber cap. Maybe they can add a second simple rubber cap (like on fenix flashlights) as an option...


----------



## Kilovolt (Nov 12, 2007)

Lumapower LM31 and LM33 come with three rubber boots: a black and a red one that protrude from the tailcap and a GITD boot that on the contrary is shorter and enables tail standing. This way both preferences are covered.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 12, 2007)

Tail-standing ability is also a bonus for me, and I think at the standard retail price of $80 (we are getting a discount as beta-testers), 2 tail switches - one aggressive/protruding, one tail standing - with a GITD option wouldn't be outrageous feature-wise. 

Maybe just three extra rubber caps would do. So you end up with two tail-standing caps, one GITD, and two aggressive/protruding caps, one GITD. Sounds good to me. Cheaper for EDGE too.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 12, 2007)

Tubor said:


> Tail-standing ability is also a bonus for me, and I think at the standard retail price of $80 (we are getting a discount as beta-testers), 2 tail switches - one aggressive/protruding, one tail standing - with a GITD option wouldn't be outrageous feature-wise.
> 
> Maybe just three extra rubber caps would do. So you end up with two tail-standing caps, one GITD, and two aggressive/protruding caps, one GITD. Sounds good to me. Cheaper for EDGE too.


I did not know you could get shorter caps(here is me adding o-rings to my caps to make them shorter hmm) the option of two caps would be good.The clip is not a problem,I pm'd Burman and he sail he could make a clip for the Nitecore,so there is that option..if you want a clip,ok it will cost but we can't expect everything to come with this light,or can we


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 12, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> For those that dont know:
> What we 3 testers got seems to be 3 hand made lights.
> They are a bit more crude then what the mass produced versions will be.
> IMO this is great.Everything seems 95% right.I think this was the plan.
> ...




If this is true, I don't think we'll see shipment at the end of the Month.

Welcome back Fastcar.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 12, 2007)

CandlePowerForumsUser said:


> If this is true, I don't think we'll see shipment at the end of the Month.
> 
> Welcome back Fastcar.


 keep that qiute A war will break out!


----------



## Lobo (Nov 12, 2007)

Diode said:


> I think the name could be improved. I suggest Super Ultra Mega Defender Infinity And Beyond, Tactical Edition.
> 
> Don't get me started on the logo... I think it's fascist enough. Adding eagles, arrows, guns, or a swastikas would be overkill.
> 
> And the light itself, it's almost perfect! Something tells me it's too good to be true. But my CPF side says send PP now.



I'm a bit late, but that post just cracked me up!
Thanks for the laught Diode, and you actually have some good points there. How the hell did they come up with that logo, not to mention the name.

Allthough I might add that the lights looks smoking, both the specs and the looks. Really looking forward to the reviews.


----------



## robo21 (Nov 12, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> Will review mine in a few days.Want to really get to know it.
> 
> For those that dont know:
> What we 3 testers got seems to be 3 hand made lights.
> ...


 
Sounds great FASTCAR, looking forward to your review and any initial impressions you may have. Thanks! :twothumbs


----------



## Bushman5 (Nov 12, 2007)

curry__muncha said:


> =O :candle:



i was being sarcastic fyi,


----------



## Mike89 (Nov 12, 2007)

Man, 190 lumens out of one AA battery. That's pretty damn impressive. Dunno if I'm going to get one yet but I'm sure interested. Going to be nice reading the reviews.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi guys, I took some quick snapshots after a quick browse of the posts.
Sorry if I missed any out 

As to weather the Denfenders purchases in the current NiteCore thread on the MP. I would suspect they would be the ones assembled by SMT (ie. With the improvements.). This is just my guess, best is to ask the NiteCore rep for a confirmation.

Onto the images...

NiteCore Defender, JETBeam JET-1 MK.II R, Fenix P1D CE and the all important AA cell reference 
















Now I gotta get back to work, catcha guys later!


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 12, 2007)

x2x3x2 thanks for the comparison pic.
If anyone is interested this is from EDGETACS first post at CPFMP.

1. We promise that the quality of the products pre-ordered here are exactly the same with those in mass production. If any differences, our company will refund the lights pre-ordered here unconditionally.


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 12, 2007)

so are we assuming shipping date to be end of the month?


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 12, 2007)

x2x3x2, thanks for the photos. It's amazing what a little diamond knurling does for a light. Wish Fenix would catch on.


----------



## holeymoley (Nov 12, 2007)

x2x3x2 can we have a pic of the light submerged in 1000ft of water, a pic of the lanyard being pulled by a pickup truck, and a beamshot on a giant ape climbing the Empire State Building?

Other than that, you mentioned that the pill looked hard to remove...do you think this one will be upgradeable for the new Cree bins?
Thanks


----------



## greenstuffs (Nov 12, 2007)

They just slap in a new emitter and everyone will go preorder the light. Just milking from the same old cow. Nothing wrong because its proven to work. And fenix with knurlinng i don't think so it will destroy the image of their flashlights. May be a new line of fenix.



swxb12 said:


> x2x3x2, thanks for the photos. It's amazing what a little diamond knurling does for a light. Wish Fenix would catch on.


----------



## Marduke (Nov 12, 2007)

Well, the EO is fairly well knurled. Maybe future models will do something similar.


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## Lobo (Nov 12, 2007)

greenstuffs said:


> They just slap in a new emitter and everyone will go preorder the light. Just milking from the same old cow. Nothing wrong because its proven to work. And fenix with knurlinng i don't think so it will destroy the image of their flashlights. May be a new line of fenix.



Well, they did a lot more than slapped in a new emitter. Really nice design, UI with infinite variable output, forward clickie, great performance from an AA etc. Surefire managed to sell more Titans preordered for a whole lot more with less pros, so I don't see anything wrong in people getting excited over this light. Let's just hope Nitecore can keep their promises, feature and service wise.


----------



## curry__muncha (Nov 12, 2007)

^ I agree 100%



Diode said:


> I think the name could be improved. I suggest Super Ultra Mega Defender Infinity And Beyond, Tactical Edition.
> 
> Don't get me started on the logo... I think it's fascist enough. Adding eagles, arrows, guns, or a swastikas would be overkill.
> 
> And the light itself, it's almost perfect! Something tells me it's too good to be true. But my CPF side says send PP now.



haha.. same view here man! just gotta wait till i recieve my own one to give my personal confirmation =P



Bushman5 said:


> i was being sarcastic fyi,



haha.. i knew that bro .. (i saw ur post count  )..

i was just taking the **** outta the statement =P ^^




TITAN1833 said:


> x2x3x2 thanks for the comparison pic.
> If anyone is interested this is from EDGETACS first post at CPFMP.
> 
> 1. We promise that the quality of the products pre-ordered here are exactly the same with those in mass production. If any differences, our company will refund the lights pre-ordered here unconditionally.



thats commitment!.. lets hope they hold their word up aye ;]


----------



## greenstuffs (Nov 12, 2007)

I was really talking about Fenix, I like the nitecore design better than any other chinese light makers. I think we all agree on that. We can't really talk about functionality because there aren't many lights out there for peopel to actually test. I will however take more research into this light before buying it because it is by no means cheap. I think i'll wait for the second batch. Early adopters are the ones that get the fun first or get burnt. 



Lobo said:


> Well, they did a lot more than slapped in a new emitter. Really nice design, UI with infinite variable output, forward clickie, great performance from an AA etc. Surefire managed to sell more Titans preordered for a whole lot more with less pros, so I don't see anything wrong in people getting excited over this light. Let's just hope Nitecore can keep their promises, feature and service wise.


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 13, 2007)

I'm buying as soon as word filters in from CPF members about brightness runtime and quality. Not going to jump on it yet.


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## Lobo (Nov 13, 2007)

greenstuffs said:


> I was really talking about Fenix, I like the nitecore design better than any other chinese light makers. I think we all agree on that. We can't really talk about functionality because there aren't many lights out there for peopel to actually test. I will however take more research into this light before buying it because it is by no means cheap. I think i'll wait for the second batch. Early adopters are the ones that get the fun first or get burnt.



Ah, my bad then. 

Allthough it might be harsh calling Fenix uncreative(We've been pretty spoiled in the development of lights the last year or so, we almost expect a new light every month), I understand what you mean. They release a new model, then update the emitter a couple of times, and people still buy them like crazy every time. The Fenix LxT with forward clicky has been the most interesting thing lately. And that is just a redesign of an old model with an added forward clicky (how hard is it really to make one, going by the demand here, the will to bend over backward for us by most smaller manufacturers and the lack of forward clickies, it must be VERY hard...).


----------



## illmatic (Nov 13, 2007)

x2x3x2,

how does the output compare to the Jetbeam MK.II R on eneloops? Is the Nitecore noticibly brighter to the eye? Thanks again


----------



## djblank87 (Nov 13, 2007)

Sgt. LED said:


> I'm buying as soon as word filters in from CPF members about brightness runtime and quality. Not going to jump on it yet.


 

Same here, I would like to here the up's and down's from a mass crowd before grabbing one. 

x2x3x2 and fastcar thank you for the reviews.:twothumbs


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## wwglen (Nov 13, 2007)

I REALLY hate this phrase

"UI with infinite variable output".

If it is digital than it is NOT infinate but in fact a series of DISCRETE levels.

wwglen


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## merlocka (Nov 13, 2007)

wwglen said:


> I REALLY hate this phrase
> 
> "UI with infinite variable output".
> 
> ...



Hate to break it to ya, but if even if it's analog it won't be _infinite_, as there is always some level of quantization in any control mechanism. In regards to this light, the video clearly demonstrates the mechanism for variable output. Whether it qualifies for _infinite _in the marketing claims is not up to me... but when it comes to nitpicking the claims, the variable output mechanism isn't high on my particular list.


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## thiswayup (Nov 13, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> x2x3x2, thanks for the photos. It's amazing what a little diamond knurling does for a light. Wish Fenix would catch on.



Yes. The Chinese manufacturers really need to start considering this - nothing makes a light look and feel better than this.


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 13, 2007)

thiswayup said:


> Yes. The Chinese manufacturers really need to start considering this - nothing makes a light look and feel better than this.


They do! "NITECORE"


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## Mike89 (Nov 13, 2007)

How are they getting 180 lumens out of a 1.5 volt battery? Does the Q5 run same brightness at 1.5 volts as it does 3 volts?


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## Thujone (Nov 13, 2007)

Mike89 said:


> Does the Q5 run same brightness at 1.5 volts as it does 3 volts?



No, thats why they will be using a boost circuit


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 13, 2007)

Mike89 said:


> How are they getting 180 lumens out of a 1.5 volt battery?


A rather efficient boost circuit, I imagine. That said, I doubt the Defender can stay at maximum power for more than a few seconds on anything but NiMH. We shall see...


----------



## merlocka (Nov 13, 2007)

Mike89 said:


> How are they getting 180 lumens out of a 1.5 volt battery? Does the Q5 run same brightness at 1.5 volts as it does 3 volts?



180 lumens is a Q5 at about 650mA, probably around 3.6 to 3.7V

So, an alkaline cell will need to be boosted up to 3.6V (over 3x), which means they will need to be drawing at least 3x650mA from a AA alkaline.

As you can guess, this will sag the voltage of the alkaline fast, and you will start a standard alkaline rolloff right away. If you look at the data, they claim the 180 lumens on an AA alkaline is for a total of about 3 minutes before it begins a ramp down to ~ 120lm after 20 minutes, then to "Dead" after 40 minutes.

So, the 180lm claim is very aggressive, not to mention that this is "LED" lumens, and would need to be multiplied by ~2/3 to get "torch" lumens.

I don't expect any more performance on alkaline from this light than from what's already been demonstrated by Fenix and others with Q5's on AA alk's.

But, the reviews will be coming soon, so let's hang on to our hats and see what our $40/$50/$60 will get us!


----------



## Mike89 (Nov 13, 2007)

> 180 lumens is a Q5 at about 650mA, probably around 3.6 to 3.7V
> 
> So, an alkaline cell will need to be boosted up to 3.6V (over 3x), which means they will need to be drawing at least 3x650mA from a AA alkaline.
> 
> ...


 
That makes sense. I can't imagine an AA battery running 180 lumens like a CR123 battery could, boost circuit or not. Nothing's for free. If potential buyers are focusing on that 180 lumens as a buying point, they may be disappointed in the result.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 13, 2007)

Do remember that NiMH cells have a much lower internal resistance. An Eneloop or similar can be expected to deliver 2C for most of its charge.

If X2x3x2's claim is true (and I've no reason to believe it isn't) this light does give about as much output as most CR123-powered Cree EDCs, which is an achievement in itself.


----------



## FASTCAR (Nov 13, 2007)

How does the internal resistance of an Eneloop compare to a 14500?


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## merlocka (Nov 13, 2007)

Mike89 said:


> That makes sense. I can't imagine an AA battery running 180 lumens like a CR123 battery could, boost circuit or not. Nothing's for free. If potential buyers are focusing on that 180 lumens as a buying point, they may be disappointed in the result.



Well, potential buyers are currently all CPF'rs, so I'm guessing that more Eneloops or AW 14500's will find their way into these lights than alkaline.


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## Lobo (Nov 13, 2007)

merlocka said:


> Well, potential buyers are all CPF'rs, so I'm guessing that more Eneloops or AW 14500's will find their way into these lights than alkaline.



Exactly. Fenix is a bigger player in the AA-field and I guess sell a lot more lights, but I would guess that a fraction of the users use alkalines.


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## BentHeadTX (Nov 13, 2007)

The NiteCore is not a Christmas present for Uncle Bob and his drawer full of alkalines. It is for CPF'ers, cops and military that understand the power of NiMH cells. It can run on crap as long as you reprogram it to lower levels so maybe Bob will get one as long as reprogramming instructions are not included.  

Actually, that is a pretty good idea... hmmmm....


----------



## Lobo (Nov 13, 2007)

BentHeadTX said:


> The NiteCore is not a Christmas present for Uncle Bob and his drawer full of alkalines. It is for CPF'ers, cops and military that understand the power of NiMH cells. It can run on crap as long as you reprogram it to lower levels so maybe Bob will get one as long as reprogramming instructions are not included.
> 
> Actually, that is a pretty good idea... hmmmm....



That's another thing I like with this light. It's basically a Fenix L1T with forward clicky, knurling and last but not the least, you can set one of the levels however you want, plus there is a strobe in there if you would ever need it, but not in the way.
This UI is actually more appealing to me than an UI where you can ramp up and down steplessly(dont know the word in english), cause it's quicker with two set stages. And if you want to change them, it's not that overly complicated like the Litefluxs(ok, I don't know if they are that complex, cause I never figured out how the UI worked, but I guess they are too complex for me if I don't even understand the manual )


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 13, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> How does the internal resistance of an Eneloop compare to a 14500?


LiIon cells (not high-discharge LiPo) have higher resistance than NiMH, all other things being equal. At least if I remember right...
Then again, a 14500 will have to deliver much less current into the driving circuitry to drive the emitter at the same rate, thanks to its higher voltage.


----------



## sb_pete (Nov 13, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Hi guys, I took some quick snapshots after a quick browse of the posts.
> Sorry if I missed any out
> ...
> 
> ...


 
Awesome! Didn't want to repost your entire post, but thanks for those pics. Man, quick service and great pics! Good luck on the studies bro!

On another note, with all this talk of how cool the aggressive knurling is, I figured I should mention it. I agree, I really like the aggressive knurling, but there is a reason that fenix and others don't do it. That is because these are intended as EDC lights to go in peoples pockets. Aggressive knurling really beats up everything else in your pocket, esp cell phones. I personally like it, but I can see why some companies avoid it in pocket lights.

-Pete


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## Tremendo (Nov 15, 2007)

Personally I prefer the Energizer Lithium AA's. That's what I use in my AA lights now. How well do you think they would perform compared to the NiMH cells?



BentHeadTX said:


> The NiteCore is not a Christmas present for Uncle Bob and his drawer full of alkalines. It is for CPF'ers, cops and military that understand the power of NiMH cells. It can run on crap as long as you reprogram it to lower levels so maybe Bob will get one as long as reprogramming instructions are not included.
> 
> Actually, that is a pretty good idea... hmmmm....


----------



## ankhbr (Nov 15, 2007)

I just saw a few more pictures of the Nitecore Defender on tadgear's website:
http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme gear/flashlights main/defender_infinity.htm

I had not seen those imagens before.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 15, 2007)

Can anyone recommend the best battery type,to be used in this light.
For maximum power.There are so many to choose from lol.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 15, 2007)

Tremendo said:


> Personally I prefer the Energizer Lithium AA's. That's what I use in my AA lights now. How well do you think they would perform compared to the NiMH cells?


At a draw of three to four amps? Pretty badly. Primary lithiums are better than alkalines at delivering lots of current, but not *that* better.



TITAN1833 said:


> Can anyone recommend the best battery type,to be used in this light.
> For maximum power.There are so many to choose from lol.


For maximum power you want a 14500 LiIon, although if the graphs are to be believed there's rather less difference than usual in the output from a 14500 and a NiMH.


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## Lobo (Nov 15, 2007)

ankhbr said:


> I just saw a few more pictures of the Nitecore Defender on tadgear's website:
> http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme gear/flashlights main/defender_infinity.htm
> 
> I had not seen those imagens before.



Thanks mate, very nice pics! Hadn't seen them before either.

Anyone knows how big this is compared to let's say a Fenix L1D, which I think is one of the largest 1AAlights out there (after LumaPower M3).


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 15, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> At a draw of three to four amps? Pretty badly. Primary lithiums are better than alkalines at delivering lots of current, but not *that* better.
> 
> 
> For maximum power you want a 14500 LiIon, although if the graphs are to be believed there's rather less difference than usual in the output from a 14500 and a NiMH.


Thanks,is AW'S PROTECTED 14500 OK.


----------



## curtis22 (Nov 15, 2007)

Does it use PWM?


----------



## clipse (Nov 15, 2007)

This thing is looking better all the time.


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## Fallingwater (Nov 15, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Thanks,is AW'S PROTECTED 14500 OK.


AW is said to have the best LiIon cells around, so yes.
On the other hand, if I were you I'd just run it on an Eneloop first and see if the brightness satisfies me.


----------



## Lobo (Nov 15, 2007)

Is it just me, or are those threepronged crenulations totally pointless? They just gonna get caugt in stuff or scratch em up. I find crenulations on any light ridiculous, but even more so on a single AA-light. Most people who like crenulations on bigger lights must agree on the uselessnes on a AA-light? 
If they're having the crenulations for letting light pass when you place it with the head down, it would be much better if they had the much gentler wavy form, as novatac.


----------



## gravityz (Nov 15, 2007)

Lobo said:


> That's another thing I like with this light. It's basically a Fenix L1T with forward clicky, knurling and last but not the least, you can set one of the levels however you want, plus there is a strobe in there if you would ever need it, but not in the way.
> This UI is actually more appealing to me than an UI where you can ramp up and down steplessly(dont know the word in english), cause it's quicker with two set stages. And if you want to change them, it's not that overly complicated like the Litefluxs(ok, I don't know if they are that complex, cause I never figured out how the UI worked, but I guess they are too complex for me if I don't even understand the manual )


sao were is the storbe and howe can you srt a level

i understood that turning the bezel will increase/decrease lightoutput but can you store this level under a clicky setting or what?


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## edc3 (Nov 15, 2007)

Lobo said:


> Is it just me, or are those threepronged crenulations totally pointless? They just gonna get caugt in stuff or scratch em up. I find crenulations on any light ridiculous, but even more so on a single AA-light. Most people who like crenulations on bigger lights most agree on the uselessnes on a AA-light?
> If they're having the crenulations for letting light pass when you place it with the head down, it would be much better if they had the much gentler wavy form, as novatac.




I agree. They look cool, but functionally I don't like them. I have a Huntlight 1XAA with crenelated head and it's not good in my pocket and I can't see myself hitting someone on the head with a tiny AA light, so what's the point? And if it's going to be crenelated, four points would make it stand better on the head.


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## gravityz (Nov 15, 2007)

merlocka said:


> 180 lumens is a Q5 at about 650mA, probably around 3.6 to 3.7V
> 
> So, an alkaline cell will need to be boosted up to 3.6V (over 3x), which means they will need to be drawing at least 3x650mA from a AA alkaline.
> 
> ...


 
i can hardly believe those numbers either

i checked batterycurrent on the L2DCE Q5
on turbo it is pulling 1.9-2.2 amps and then it is extremely bright

on 1AA however it is pulling 1.4 amps. it is still bright but no way it is 180 lumens, more like a 105 lumens.
edited my info

since the L1DCE can put out 105 lumens for 1 hour and 50 minutes it might be possible to put out 180 lumens for 50 minutes

hopefully they got the heat dissipation under control


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## Lobo (Nov 15, 2007)

gravtyz said:


> sao were is the storbe and howe can you srt a level
> 
> i understood that turning the bezel will increase/decrease lightoutput but can you store this level under a clicky setting or what?



If I understood it correctly, if you're in the "tactical" setting, you twist the head twice quickly (first loose, then tight), then you'll be in the strobe. I'm not sure if it saves the mode then, but it might.

To save a setting on the second position (loose bezel), you loose the bezel from tight, then youll enter the last stored setting, now you can also ramp up and down the light by twisting, when you reached the level you want, click on the clicky, and the level is stored to second position now.


----------



## gravityz (Nov 15, 2007)

thanks

it is more clear now(looked at the movie on youtube)


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## FASTCAR (Nov 15, 2007)

I am curious as to why this thread is SO big with so many reads.
This is not the first ever AA light.

Im not mad or anything.But I dont see Fenix L2-whatever-AA light or whoever else with 15 pages and thousands of reads.

It does add up to good sales for sure for Nightcore.
I remember in school learning about 2 things:
"All publicity is GOOD publicity"
And
"Controversy =cash"

Well I like this light and hope the Raidfire is nice also.
Best luck to Nitecore in the future !
:twothumbs


----------



## Lobo (Nov 15, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> I am curious as to why this thread is SO big with so many reads.
> This is not the first ever AA light.
> 
> Im not mad or anything.But I dont see Fenix L2-whatever-AA light or whoever else with 15 pages and thousands of reads.
> ...



Well the main appeal to me is the combination of looks, great UI, forward clicky and output (if the rated output is even close to the real that is). The UI is the best I've seen so far in this kind of light. If I understand it correctly, it's a simple 2 stage light with the added a bonus that you can decide the brightness of the second stage, and with a strobe that doesnt get in the way. No click-until-right-lvl-UI.
But I guess you know more about the light than I do.
Looking forward to your review!


----------



## Paul6ppca (Nov 15, 2007)

FASTCAR said:


> I am curious as to why this thread is SO big with so many reads.
> This is not the first ever AA light.
> 
> Im not mad or anything.But I dont see Fenix L2-whatever-AA light or whoever else with 15 pages and thousands of reads.
> ...


 
Dont you have one to review?


----------



## luminata (Nov 15, 2007)

Exactly what I was thinking. I am wondering why there seems to be a hold off on reviews until This Friday? After having the pre-production sample for a cpl days and I assume using it for some bit, are you telling us it is not all that great Fastcar?
I personally like the 3 prong bezel. I get tired of the same thing in design again and again. Even if it doesnt turn out to be practical it sure looks cool .
And there is no way you are gonna get 180 lumens from this light. Maybe 100-110 for some sort of sustained period, but keep in mind the volts forward for AA and the current state of LED technology. Even so it still is a cool light and I hope they can still meet the promised shipping deadline . I am waiting to see if they sell out the 500 after the BIG FRIDAY REVIEW release day is here. I thought by now with all the talk they would have sold the 500 but I dont think sales have broken 300 yet?


----------



## WadeF (Nov 15, 2007)

luminata said:


> And there is no way you are gonna get 180 lumens from this light. Maybe 100-110 for some sort of sustained period, but keep in mind the volts forward for AA and the current state of LED technology.


 
That remains to be seen, but from early reports it seems 180-190, out the front anyway, seems a bit optimistic. However, with a 3V 14500 it's more likely, especially if their circuit boosts the voltage so the Q5 can run at 1A. Not sure what current the are pushing the Q5 at. Dereelight designed a circuit to boost the voltage from 18650's so the Q5's can be powered at 1A or 1.2A. The driver just draws more current from the battery as voltage drops. I would think a driver like this would kill an AA alkaline pretty quick, but with a 14500 the current wouldn't need to be boosted as much. Hopefully Chevrofreak will get his hands on one and will be able to test it in his home made integrating sphere. That would give us an idea how it stacks up to 2-CR123 lights like the Fenix P3D Q5.



luminata said:


> Exactly what I was thinking. I am wondering why there seems to be a hold off on reviews until This Friday?


Some of the reviewers may be to busy with work, school, etc to post a quick review, and they may want to use the light for awhile before giving an opinion. Shame I didn't get one to review, I work from home so I could have had a ton of pictures, lux readings, etc, by now.


----------



## FASTCAR (Nov 15, 2007)

There are other reasons.
My review will be up Fri or Sat.

I know for sure 3x2x2 has things going on at the moment.


----------



## sb_pete (Nov 15, 2007)

Lobo said:


> Is it just me, or are those threepronged crenulations totally pointless? They just gonna get caugt in stuff or scratch em up. I find crenulations on any light ridiculous, but even more so on a single AA-light. Most people who like crenulations on bigger lights must agree on the uselessnes on a AA-light?
> If they're having the crenulations for letting light pass when you place it with the head down, it would be much better if they had the much gentler wavy form, as novatac.


 
No, its not just you. There are others who don't like crenelations. I am not one of them. I love the fact that it is crenelated. x2x3x2 has said it is a bit wobbly with 3point crenelation so maybe they can change i to 4 or 5 point. For those who want a small light like this that is not crenelated, why not buy a Fenix/Olight/Lumapower/Jetbeam/ultrafire/etc. There are lots of lights without crenelations out there. Alot of us DO want those crenelations and that is a big selling point of this light. For me, I set the light down bezel down all the time and have been known to leave it on and drain the battery so it is nice to be able to see if it was left on.

-Pete


----------



## Lobo (Nov 15, 2007)

sb_pete said:


> No, its not just you. There are others who don't like crenelations. I am not one of them. I love the fact that it is crenelated. x2x3x2 has said it is a bit wobbly with 3point crenelation so maybe they can change i to 4 or 5 point. For those who want a small light like this that is not crenelated, why not buy a Fenix/Olight/Lumapower/Jetbeam/ultrafire/etc. There are lots of lights without crenelations out there. Alot of us DO want those crenelations and that is a big selling point of this light. For me, I set the light down bezel down all the time and have been known to leave it on and drain the battery so it is nice to be able to see if it was left on.
> 
> -Pete



Yeah, but that's kind of my point. The threepronged crenulation makes it hard to stand on the head. And I can't see the point for the crenulations for selfdefence reasons, the light is tiny. If they just made it gentler and wavy, like the novatac, the light would be smaller, you could still see the light if you put it top down, no scratching on your other stuff or snagging when you take it out the pocket. 
But that's just my opinion.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 15, 2007)

I like the crenelations, looks very cool. I can see your point about "roughing-up" other pocket items, but it would do to some degree anyway as it's made of metal, so I think it wouldn't make a huge difference un-crenelated.


----------



## Lobo (Nov 15, 2007)

Well, it's really not a huge issue for me. And it seems that I was wrong assuming that more people would prefer without. I would also guess that they wouldn't change anything like that this late in the game. And I can also see what you guys mean with the threepronged cranulation giving it a distinct look. Allthough I would prefer without.
But each to his own.


----------



## Blindasabat (Nov 15, 2007)

ankhbr said:


> I just saw a few more pictures of the Nitecore Defender on tadgear's website:
> http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme gear/flashlights main/defender_infinity.htm


Woah, the picture of the tail shows the entire rear edge worn free of HA. Does not speak well the coating's durability. Of course, that could just be a prototype anodizing of lesser degree, ...type II possibly?

Also, in the video, am I the only one who noticed a long delay betwixt the twisting and the twitch to the newly selected level? Hmmmm. We will have to see.


----------



## KevinL (Nov 15, 2007)

Blindasabat said:


> Woah, the picture of the tail shows the entire rear edge worn free of HA. Does not speak well the coating's durability. Of course, that could just be a prototype anodizing of lesser degree, ...type II possibly?
> 
> Also, in the video, am I the only one who noticed a long delay betwixt the twisting and the twitch to the newly selected level? Hmmmm. We will have to see.



I hope Nitecore puts a thick coat on the finished lights. Also, even hard anodizing has different thicknesses and quality. So it is all "HA", but how hard is hard, or how thick is thick, that is the issue.....

In my experience of pocket carrying lots of lights, the keys on my keyring do their best to ruin the finish and very quickly too. I tend to EDC "HA" lights, but I've noticed some lights withstand the abuse much better than others. HDS for example, appears to be nearly invulnerable to the keys. Their HA process seems to withstand abuse so much better than certain other lights which give in quite quickly. 

Part of the cost of premium lights is the attention to the little details we CAN'T see or accurately measure. Let's hope Nitecore has taken care of these, that would make the Defender an excellent light. 

I plan to EDC the Defender for a while, we'll see how it goes.


----------



## Lobo (Nov 15, 2007)

Blindasabat said:


> Also, in the video, am I the only one who noticed a long delay betwixt the twisting and the twitch to the newly selected level? Hmmmm. We will have to see.



I think it has been mentioned somewhere else (probably x2x2x2 in this thread) that the delay is longer on the test-models, like 1,5second. It will be 0,5 seconds on the production model. IIRC.


----------



## illmatic (Nov 15, 2007)

Blindasabat said:


> Woah, the picture of the tail shows the entire rear edge worn free of HA. Does not speak well the coating's durability. Of course, that could just be a prototype anodizing of lesser degree, ...type II possibly?
> 
> Also, in the video, am I the only one who noticed a long delay betwixt the twisting and the twitch to the newly selected level? Hmmmm. We will have to see.



I don't see rear edge worn free of HA...you sure that's not just the lighting on the edge? then again, you are blindasabat..j/k


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 15, 2007)

Blindasabat,
Yup, there is a delay, aparently its for the circuit to detect the current state of the bezel.
As Lobo mentioned, the prodution will have a 0.5 second delay while my preview sample has a 1 second delay which is more obvious.

Curtis22,
Yes it uses PWM as far as I can tell, though its a much higher frequency similar to that used in LiteFlux products which makes it totally unnoticeable to human eyes no matter how hard your try to spot it.

Oh my, did anyone notice the newer Defender thread got closed?
Seems that we can't even have more than 1 thread discussing the Defender now.

The 2 threads are of different topics afterall, which CPF rule states that we can't have 2 threads about a light btw? I must have missed reading that one.
Thought seems to be OK to have those multiple similar topics about NovaTac/SF Titans/Fenix lights.
Poor FASTCAR, seems someone has pasted a bull's-eye on your *** 

*edit: Woot! post #444! Do I get a prize CPF? :thinking:


----------



## KeeperSD (Nov 15, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Blindasabat,
> Oh my, did anyone notice the newer Defender thread got closed?
> Seems that we can't even have more than 1 thread discussing the Defender now. Rediculous.
> 
> ...


 
+1
There have been over 25000 views and over 400 replies covering all different aspects of this light yet there is still only one thread, yet there are multiple threads on other lights, there are two threads on the upcoming Fenix T1 with basically the same information. 

Great to see the reviewers have this light, looking forward to their upcoming reviews.


----------



## luminata (Nov 15, 2007)

Good points Wadef!!

My knowledge of electronics and such is VERY limited. I just try to absorb as much as I can from these forums. Maybe they are doing the Fenix thing and talking about emitter lumens. I was more thinking of actual OTF lumens. 

Though I don't see how anything else in life can take precedence over flashlights:huh: I must be patient (just kidding).


----------



## Lobo (Nov 15, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Oh my, did anyone notice the newer Defender thread got closed?
> Seems that we can't even have more than 1 thread discussing the Defender now.
> 
> The 2 threads are of different topics afterall, which CPF rule states that we can't have 2 threads about a light btw? I must have missed reading that one.
> ...



I guess I missed that before it got closed. But it's a bit weird, this thread is getting looooong. I have no idea why there wouldn't be another thread, but I havent seen any other defender-threads yet.


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 15, 2007)

KeeperSD said:


> +1
> There have been over 25000 views and over 400 replies covering all different aspects of this light yet there is still only one thread, yet there are multiple threads on other lights, there are two threads on the upcoming Fenix T1 with basically the same information.
> 
> Great to see the reviewers have this light, looking forward to their upcoming reviews.



If you're speaking of the thread I started, yes an explanation would have been nice for why it was closed other than NiteCore only being allowed to have one thread.


----------



## Marduke (Nov 15, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> If you're speaking of the thread I started, yes an explanation would have been nice for why it was closed other than NiteCore only being allowed to have one thread.



I think it had more to do with that thread about to take a quick turn down the drain.

Anyhow....
I would like to see the bezel replaceable, like a SS insert so you can choose between smooth, wavy, or pronged. Would also increase durability when dropped, like the Inova SS bezel ring.


----------



## FASTCAR (Nov 15, 2007)




----------



## swxb12 (Nov 15, 2007)

Marduke said:


> Anyhow....
> I would like to see the bezel replaceable, like a SS insert so you can choose between smooth, wavy, or pronged. Would also increase durability when dropped, like the Inova SS bezel ring.



Maybe on the next version. That sounds like a nice idea. How about tritium slots as well? :thumbsup:


----------



## Marduke (Nov 15, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> Maybe on the next version. That sounds like a nice idea. How about tritium slots as well? :thumbsup:



Ragiska asked about that in the sales thread, they said the current slots were too shallow.

Reply:


> And as to the slot, it's not that deep, only if you can find the really samll tritium vials.


----------



## curry__muncha (Nov 16, 2007)

Marduke said:


> I think it had more to do with that thread about to
> I would like to see the bezel replaceable, like a SS insert so you can choose between smooth, wavy, or pronged. Would also increase durability when dropped, like the Inova SS bezel ring.



x2!..

ps. congrats on 1000 quality posts Marduke :thumbsup:



swxb12 said:


> Maybe on the next version. That sounds like a nice idea. How about tritium slots as well? :thumbsup:



guess if you have very good skills with glow powder finishes .


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Nov 16, 2007)

Oh yeah!

+1 for Tritium Slots.
It never hurts to leave options open.


----------



## Marlite (Nov 16, 2007)

Fastcar

I recall the JetBeam Mark I 1AA 3W Luxeon with considerable attention generating 39 pages and 1161 posts. Don't think anything has more pages. Only 13 more pages to tie.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=108505&page=39

Awaiting reviews.............  
marlite




FASTCAR said:


> I am curious as to why this thread is SO big with so many reads.
> This is not the first ever AA light.
> 
> Im not mad or anything.But I dont see Fenix L2-whatever-AA light or whoever else with 15 pages and thousands of reads.
> ...


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 16, 2007)

Picture from first post on CPFM, added by Edgetac today:


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 16, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> Picture from first post on CPFM, added by Edgetac today:


Thanks Daniel_sk that should put most at ease.


----------



## gravityz (Nov 16, 2007)

i have a question about this light.

this thing seems 2 have 2 rotating bezels
the front one to change the brightness
the backone to change between the 2 light presets(or for strobe)

i want to do the following with it.

preset 1 high, preset 2 low.

how do i switch it to either low or high from the off situation.

do i fullpress the clicky and then rotate to either high or low or is it a matter of clicking multiple times like with most lights who cycle through modes

youtube video is a bit hard to see.

thanks


----------



## Lobo (Nov 16, 2007)

gravtyz said:


> i have a question about this light.
> 
> this thing seems 2 have 2 rotating bezels
> the front one to change the brightness
> ...




I think it's only one rotating bezel.
There is no multiple clicking, the clicky only turns the light off and on, doesnt change the mode.
If you have the bezel tightened, and turn it on, then youll get highest mode. 
If the bezel is losened, then you'll get your own preset mode. 
If the bezel is tightened, then you losen it, and then tighten it again, then you get strobe. If I understood this correctly.
Hope this clears things up.

The UI might be a bit hard to understand, but I think it's really simple to use in real life. Even the programming of the preset level is easy to do.



x2x3x2 said:


> Here's some info that hopefully clears up some wondering minds
> 
> Switch:
> Its a forward push button which allows for momentary activation when half-pressed. Constant on when fully clicked. A half-turn anti-clockwise of the tail cap locks out the switch.
> ...


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 16, 2007)

gravtyz said:


> i have a question about this light.
> 
> this thing seems 2 have 2 rotating bezels
> the front one to change the brightness
> ...


gravtyz,the head is what rotates,I dont think there are two bezels?? but if you look at #293 this may help you.


----------



## gravityz (Nov 16, 2007)

yes i just got the answers

i probably missed those answers because of the lenght of this thread.

sounds easy to use, almost like a fenix

tighten the head and you get turbo
what if you loosten it again
does it go back to your presetted LOW?

if it does it really is like a fenix(which jumps to low)


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 16, 2007)

Hi everyone,

FYI, my pre-production review sample arrived in yesterday's mail.  I've been playing with it and performing runtimes ever since, and should have my preliminary review with most of the runtimes up by end of day tomorrow (Staturday). I plan on showing direct head-to-head results with the Fenix Q5 on L1D and the Liteflux LF5. Sorry no pics so far, but mine looks and acts just like the one x2x3x2 has posted about here.

I know you all have a lot of questions, but I'm afraid you'll have wait until tomorrow. There's no conspiracy here - I'm just too busy at work these days (which is why I've only been participating on Review forum threads the last couple of weeks - no time for anything else). And I'm away this evening, so won't be able to check back in here until tomorrow anyway.

Hang tight ...


----------



## gravityz (Nov 16, 2007)

Selfbuilt

can you just also compare brightness with the L2DCE Q5 because then we know if nitecore is able to squize more juice out of the Q5 than fenix can.
on 1AA we allready know that the fenix is not as bright as on 2AA

thanks and don't get overworked.


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 16, 2007)

YAY selfbuilt! waiting for those runtimes and output comparisons. :naughty:


----------



## Lobo (Nov 16, 2007)

gravtyz said:


> Selfbuilt
> 
> can you just also compare brightness with the L2DCE Q5 because then we know if nitecore is able to squize more juice out of the Q5 than fenix can.
> on 1AA we allready know that the fenix is not as bright as on 2AA
> ...




+1 on that.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 16, 2007)

Any news on shipping for the actual production lights?
I can't wait to get mine, but I received no news from Nitecore.
They said they'd get to us by the end of november, which means they should be on the way by now, since most non-EMS packages from HK take 2 to 4 weeks to get to their destination.


----------



## curtis22 (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm pretty sure they meant that the flashlights would be shipped by late November.

"We will deliver the products pre-ordered here in latter November; the lights will be able to reach you before Christmas!"

Fallingwater, I was in Piran in May. Not very far from you. Nice area. Bled was beautiful too.


----------



## Marduke (Nov 16, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> They said they'd get to us by the end of november, which means they should be on the way by now, since most non-EMS packages from HK take 2 to 4 weeks to get to their destination.



No, they said they would ship late November, and we _should_ get them before Christmas.


----------



## digitaleos (Nov 16, 2007)

Well it appears we will only have two reviews for this flashlight now, Fastcar was banned again, this time for 30 days.


----------



## Lobo (Nov 16, 2007)

digitaleos said:


> Well it appears we will only have two reviews for this flashlight now, Fastcar was banned again, this time for 30 days.



Seriously? Any idea why?
Was looking forward to that review...


----------



## digitaleos (Nov 16, 2007)

Lobo,
Here is a link for CPFMP , have a look at post #64. http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=171246&page=3


----------



## Marduke (Nov 16, 2007)

If he keeps his word to NiteCore, he should email his review to one of the many "hundreds of CPF'ers" he has reportedly talked to on the phone, and one will kindly post the review for him.

Otherwise, I wonder if NiteCore will ask for their light back, or for payment for the light since he is unable to fulfill his part of the deal.


----------



## curtis22 (Nov 16, 2007)

It was an obvious troll.


----------



## BobbyRS (Nov 16, 2007)

.....


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 16, 2007)

I'll be satisfied with selfbuilt's review. unbiased and done very tastefully with no disrespect to any other manufacturer.


----------



## Lobo (Nov 16, 2007)

BobbyRS said:


> I vote Selfbuilt should get Fastcar's review light!



I believe he allready has one.


----------



## BobbyRS (Nov 16, 2007)

Lobo said:


> I believe he allready has one.


 

Ummmm, I knew that.:duh2:

In that case, I change my vote to ernsanada!


----------



## Marduke (Nov 16, 2007)

BobbyRS said:


> Ummmm, I knew that.:duh2:
> 
> In that case, I chang my vote to ernsanada!



I vote for ME!!


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 16, 2007)

curtis22 said:


> It was an obvious troll.



I believe there may be some other issue with the moderating staff that FASTCAR has not found favor with, so it would probably be decent to hold off on any comments about him. I don't think he would have just vented like that out of nowhere.


----------



## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2007)

A friendly reminder, discussing staff actions is not permitted on CPF proper, please take it to the UG.


----------



## BobbyRS (Nov 16, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> A friendly reminder, discussing staff actions is not permitted on CPF proper, please take it to the UG.


 
Which is why an email was sent instead.

In light of recent events, maybe more attention needs to be paid to which individuals receive sample lights for review. I know this isn't up to CPF to determine, but maybe a recommended list of select members can be established by CPF for vendors/manufactures to utilize when they want to send out sample lights for review.


----------



## curtis22 (Nov 16, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> it would probably be decent to hold off on any comments about him.



I didn't comment about Fastcar.


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 16, 2007)

BobbyRS said:


> ...In light of recent events, maybe more attention needs to be paid to which individuals receive sample lights for review. I know this isn't up to CPF to determine, but maybe a recommended list of select members can be established by CPF for vendors/manufactures to utilize when they want to send out sample lights for review.



I'm sure NiteCore didn't just pick the first three to inquire. All three have done quite a few reviews.


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 16, 2007)

And if they did, I will message them faster next time.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 16, 2007)

Review up, enjoy.
Keep in mind that this is of the ES. Production version may have slight differences.


----------



## ajairlines (Nov 16, 2007)

I'm not sure if this video was posted eariler, but here is a video demonstrating the new NiteCore Defender Infinity.

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=4nfCZ8vQ5po


----------



## Marduke (Nov 16, 2007)

ajairlines said:


> I'm not sure if this video was posted eariler, but here is a video demonstrating the new NiteCore Defender Infinity.
> 
> http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=4nfCZ8vQ5po



It's been posted several times, but thanks.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks for the review x2x3x2! 

It's not perfect but still worth buying I think. Pretty bright. Maybe the switch could be "oiled-up" for signaling? I think it's a :thumbsup: from me!


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 16, 2007)

x2x3x2 thank you!

Everything's great - but runtime could be maybe better. I always thought, that it's the other way around, 14500 should have less runtime? I don't know if I would like to buy a 14500 battery&charger just because of this light. I like standard batteries...
I wonder if the regulation is any better on lower levels? (so that the NiMH is not so much overdriven)


----------



## Tubor (Nov 16, 2007)

Compares quite well to the quoted graphs in the sales thread, although the difference between 14500 brightness and eneloop brightness seems bigger in the review?


----------



## WadeF (Nov 16, 2007)

Could one of the reviewers take beam shots at 1 meter, and compare it to say the Fenix P2D? From x2x3x2's review he shows the hot spot being slightly brighter than the P2D, and the spill is brighter than the P2D (brighter spill than the Novatac 120 as well). This should mean it's putting out more lumens than the Fenix P2D (I assume the P4 version is on his review site), but only if the diameter of the beam is the same or larger. If the spill is wider than the Fenix P2D, and if it is a lot wider, than the claim of 180-190 emitter lumens maybe true.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 16, 2007)

I saw the lux reading? can someone put that into lumens,yes I know claims of 180 lumens were never going to happen,but what is it half=90 lumens if thats the case poor show IMO.but the rest of it is ok,thanks x2x3x2.


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 16, 2007)

Yes, graphs are quite accurate. I still don't get it - how can a 14500 be so much better?...
It still seems like a very good light for $50 I paid, but not for $80. I think they will either need to improve the regulation on NiMH or lower the price.

The runtime/output on 14500 looks quite good to me though...
Seems like I need 2x AW 14500 batteries (2x $9) + a charger (? $). The light is getting more expensive :sigh:. I already sold my L1D CE to my friend (he is VERY happy with it, he couldn't believe his eyes how bright it was :naughty.


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 16, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> I saw the lux reading? can someone put that into lumens,yes I know claims of 180 lumens were never going to happen,but what is it half=90 lumens if thats the case poor show IMO.but the rest of it is ok,thanks x2x3x2.


 
Fenix L1D CE has 1591 Lux on 1AA NiMH. Nitecore has 1957 Lux. 
(although it's not fair to compare them, the L1D has a P4 Cree).
And 2693 Lux on a 14500? Considering that L2D CE has 3000 lux on 2xAA.

I don't think this can be converted to lumens, it's just describes the light intensity on the spot - not how much light is emitted.


----------



## Taepo (Nov 16, 2007)

Interesting test results...Output vs runtime is better than the Novatac 120p (when using rechargeable AW cells).

Novatac (2530 lux @ 36min)
vs
Defender (2690 lux @ 76min)


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 16, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> Yes, graphs are quite accurate. I still don't get it - how can a 14500 be so much better?...
> It still seems like a very good light for $50 I paid, but not for $80. I think they will either need to improve the regulation on NiMH or lower the price.
> 
> The runtime/output on 14500 looks quite good to me though...
> Seems like I need 2x AW 14500 batteries (2x $9) + a charger (? $). The light is getting more expensive :sigh:. I already sold my L1D CE to my friend (he is VERY happy with it, he couldn't believe his eyes how bright it was :naughty.


Going by the graphs on 14500 over 200 lumens for ten minutes then it drops to 180 lumens that sounds good:thumbsup:


----------



## WadeF (Nov 16, 2007)

You really can't begin to figure out lumens based on LUX readings of the hot spot. Now if someone could make a light box and take some readings off the total output of some Fenix lights and the Nitecore, it would give us a better idea of the total output and how it stacks up against the others. Then we could take a better guess at lumens.

The fact that the hot spot and spill are reading higher for the Nitecore than the P2D P4 is encouraging, especially in the spill, I think it was 94lux for the P2d, and 121lux for the nitecore. Without seeing the beam pattern it's still hard to tell. If the Nitecore has a larger hotspot and a large spill than the P2D, and both areas are reading higher on the LUX meter than the P2D, than we know there is a decent difference in lumens between the two. The Fenix P2D P4 on Turbo is supposed to be 135 lumens at the emitter, probably 100-110 lumens out the front.

I'll also throw in that the P2D should have a larger and deeper reflector than the Nitecore, but it's hard to tell without having one in hand. If this is the case, the P2D should have a tighter hot spot, and the Nitecore should have a larger hot spot, and maybe a larger diameter beam overall. Hopefully someone can let us know how the beam compares to the P2D. If this is the case, the Nitecore may well be doing 180-190 lumens at the emitter.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 16, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Review up, enjoy.
> Keep in mind that this is of the ES. Production version may have slight differences.


You said pretty positive things about the light, and the lower runtime is to be expected when you consider how hard it's driving the emitter.
And yet, you only gave it 5.5 value.
Why?


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 16, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> You said pretty positive things about the light, and the lower runtime is to be expected when you consider how hard it's driving the emitter.
> And yet, you only gave it 5.5 value.
> Why?


Overall value is 7.3.


----------



## ChadPhelps (Nov 16, 2007)

I would most likely use lithium primaries in this light if I purchase one. Where would the runtime fall compared to the other battery types tested? I haven't messed around with LiIons yet so please forgive my ignorance.


----------



## mmmflashlights (Nov 16, 2007)

Runtime with the 14500 looks good, AA mediocre. Not really a surprise since circuits tend to be more efficient as the cell's voltage comes closer to the driving voltage, and obviously a 14500's voltage is going to be much closer to the proper voltage. I will be interested in runtimes and how they compare to other lights at medium and lower levels as well, maybe the AA will see more impressive efficiency levels at a more 'average' output. One slip-up x2x3x2, your dimension measurements are off, did you forget to zero out your caliper?  As far as value, I understand where that is coming from because he's likely judging value on the non-special price of $80.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 16, 2007)

So if I understand correctly this flashlight is somewhat akin to an old-style AA Fenix (not counting strobe mode) as far as brightness modes are concerned, with the difference that the low mode can be adjusted as desired.
In other words the infinite setting is useful to set the low mode, but is in itself too long and complicated to set to be used all the time.


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 16, 2007)

Difficult to say..I think it will be brighter than a Fenix L1D CE and the body looks much better quality (knurling, good threads, finally good HAIII...).
The Nitecore on 14500 will probably blow away the Fenix P2D...

We have to wait for lumen ratings - selfbuilt will have a review tomorrow.


----------



## Tubor (Nov 16, 2007)

It would be good to see runtimes at other levels of brightness. Brightness is pretty good for single AA I think, and runtime has suffered because of this "overdriving" but in real life use you could always reduce the brightness slightly. How does it compare to the L1T/L1D would be good to know.


----------



## edc3 (Nov 16, 2007)

Tubor said:


> How does it compare to the L1T/L1D would be good to know.




Exactly what I would like to know. I was going to buy an L1T V2 before I got caught up in the hoopla and ordered a NightCore.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 16, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> Difficult to say..I think it will be brighter than a Fenix L1D CE and the body looks much better quality (knurling, good threads, finally good HAIII...).
> The Nitecore on 14500 will probably blow away the Fenix P2D...


I meant just as far as the mechanics are concerned.


----------



## zerafull (Nov 16, 2007)

nobody can translate the lux on the first review, in.... lumens ?


250 lumens at the begin of 14500 cell, it's true ? the theorie join the reality ?


thank


----------



## phantom23 (Nov 16, 2007)

WadeF said:


> The fact that the hot spot and spill are reading higher for the Nitecore than the P2D P4 is encouraging, especially in the spill, I think it was 94lux for the P2d, and 121lux for the nitecore. Without seeing the beam pattern it's still hard to tell. If the Nitecore has a larger hotspot and a large spill than the P2D, and both areas are reading higher on the LUX meter than the P2D, than we know there is a decent difference in lumens between the two. The Fenix P2D P4 on Turbo is supposed to be 135 lumens at the emitter, probably 100-110 lumens out the front.


 
Remember that Nitecore has medium OP reflector (P2D and L2D smooth). Spot intensity is reduced by 20-30% because of it.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 16, 2007)

phantom23 said:


> Remember that Nitecore has medium OP reflector (P2D and L2D smooth). Spot intensity is reduced by 20-30% because of it.


 
Correct, which makes it that much more impressive that its hot spot is a tad brighter (on the lux meter) than the P2D with smooth reflector. 

zerafullnobody can translate the lux on the first review, in.... lumens ?


Doesn't work that way.


----------



## zerafull (Nov 16, 2007)

okay wadef, i apreciates yours interventions here.

But the brand Nitrolite claim 250 lumens maxi, it's just for comparison in lumens, maybe we must wait more others complete review for that ?

no problems  thx


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 16, 2007)

zerafull said:


> okay wadef, i apreciates yours interventions here.
> 
> But the brand Nitrolite claim 250 lumens maxi, it's just for comparison in lumens, maybe we must wait more others complete review for that ?
> 
> no problems  thx


Nitrolite! 250 lumens:thinking: where are they hiding this light :kiss:


----------



## ChadPhelps (Nov 16, 2007)

Can someone tell me if the runtime and output on primary lithiums (energizer e2's) should be anywhere close to 14500's? I have never used rechargeable lithiums so I need to put it in perspective.

Thanks,


----------



## phantom23 (Nov 16, 2007)

ChadPhelps said:


> Can someone tell me if the runtime and output on primary lithiums (energizer e2's) should be anywhere close to 14500's?


 
Longer runtime, less output (E2-1,7V, 14500-3,7V). Your choice.


----------



## ChadPhelps (Nov 16, 2007)

phantom23 said:


> Longer runtime, less output (E2-1,7V, 14500-3,7V). Your choice.



Thanks.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 16, 2007)

zerafull said:


> But the brand Nitrolite claim 250 lumens maxi, it's just for comparison in lumens, maybe we must wait more others complete review for that ?


 
Who's Nitrolite? Do you mean NiteCore? 

If they are claiming 250 lumens on start, dropping down to around 190, that could only be emitter lumens. If they can actually get the Q5 to draw 1A of current, by providing it with enough voltage, etc, then it's certainly possible it could be putting out 250 emitter lumens for a brief time. I have a Fenix P3D modded to a Q5, which is rated for around 180 lumens out the front according to Chevrofreak's tests. I can set up some kind of light box bounce test and compare my P3D's total output, with the Nitecore's total output on start up, 2 minutes in, etc. If the Nitecore shows to put out more total light on the meter, than we'll know it's up there in the lumen department.


----------



## KevinL (Nov 16, 2007)

Pity they ran out of samples. I was just reviewing a couple of Fenix lights and had everything up in 48 hours after delivery. (yes I paid for them, I'm not trying to score a free light here)

I'm thinking that with this featureset, Nitecore has definitely been listening for a long time. They haven't just designed a light in a vacuum - I figure they have been listening to the community and picking up all the suggestions on what we wanted. :thumbsup:


----------



## curry__muncha (Nov 16, 2007)

zerafull said:


> 250 lumens at the begin of 14500 cell, it's true ? the theorie join the reality ?



IIRC, isnt the max lumens from a Q5 cree 230 Lumens?

and also in regards to the graphs, if it really is lumens at the diode, then wouldnt you have to times it by ~2/3 to get lumens out the front?.. 

So the 180Lumens on a AA would indicate approximately 120 Lumens in reality.

And so if they measured the 14500 using lumens at the LED.. then wouldnt the 190 Lumens on 14500 be approximately 135 Lumens or so??

But looking at the reviewer's impressions it seems that the Lumens from a 14500 is actually around 160 Lumens in real life.

So i have a feeling the graphs were slightly ''tweaked'' to put it nicely. Evident in the claimed "250 Lumen" at the begging of the graph, where if i remember, the most u can get out of that specific LED is 230Lumens.

:sick2:

anyways.. the light still seems to be a very good light! =]

cheers for the reviews fellas ;]


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 16, 2007)

Hi guys,

Sorry I can't post any lumens measurements as I do not have the proper equipment for accurate readings. So it wouldn't be fair for me to estimate it.

The "value" rating has to do with the MSRP to product quality/features.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 16, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Sorry I can't post any lumens measurements as I do not have the proper equipment for accurate readings. So it wouldn't be fair for me to estimate it.
> 
> The "value" rating has to do with the MSRP to product quality/features.


 
With a lux meter you can get a white box, or whatever, make it white on the inside, install some kind of baffle, and shine the light in one end, and take a reading with your LUX meter. You can then list this reading for each light as a rough measurement of the total output. Then you can see if one light has more total output than another. I think flashlightreviews.com has details on how they made a bounce box out of a milk carton.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 16, 2007)

Yup, I used the "lightbox" method when comparing to the P2D R100 in an earlier post 
I just dont have any reference to equate the numbers i get from the lightbox to lumens.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 16, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> Yup, I used the "lightbox" method when comparing to the P2D R100 in an earlier post
> I just dont have any reference to equate the numbers i get from the lightbox to lumens.


 
Can you use this setup to compare the Nitecore on a 14500 (Max output) to a P2D or P3D on max? The #'s will just tell us if the Nitecore has more or less total output than the lights it's being compared with. Then we can let our imaginations run wild a bit more, but with a little more to go on.


----------



## srvctec (Nov 16, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Can you use this setup to compare the Nitecore on a 14500 (Max output) to a P2D or P3D on max? The #'s will just tell us if the Nitecore has more or less total output than the lights it's being compared with. Then we can let our imaginations run wild a bit more, but with a little more to go on.



You can actually compare these yourself on x2x3x2's website http://www.light-reviews.com/. Just click on compare at the top and see the difference. I absolutely love this feature of his website- haven't seen this anywhere else for flashlight reviews.


----------



## chadwide (Nov 17, 2007)

I just compared the output numbers on this to several light on Light Reviews.com. It looks like the output in both the spill and spot are less than the premium bin fenix lights on a 3.7v battery. Also, I was assuming a much better performance on AAs. I know that its technically possible to get around 180 emitter lumens from an AA, but both the spot and spill on AA is significantly lower than the P2D CE which is advertised as only 135. I'm feeling quite mislead and will probably be seeking a refund. 

If the proclaimed 180 lumens on AA is actually significantly less output than other lights advertised as 135 lumens, I think this constitutes something worse than just "Optimistic" ratings.


----------



## mmmflashlights (Nov 17, 2007)

chadwide said:


> I just compared the output numbers on this to several light on Light Reviews.com. It looks like the output in both the spill and spot are less than the premium bin fenix lights on a 3.7v battery. Also, I was assuming a much better performance on AAs. I know that its technically possible to get around 180 emitter lumens from an AA, but both the spot and spill on AA is significantly lower than the P2D CE which is advertised as only 135. I'm feeling quite mislead and will probably be seeking a refund.
> 
> If the proclaimed 180 lumens on AA is actually significantly less output than other lights advertised as 135 lumens, I think this constitutes something worse than just "Optimistic" ratings.


 
It's slightly lower in max output, but did you consider the reflector or runtime? Looking at the full picture when comparing the NiteCore to the P1 CE Q2 and the P3D CE Q2, the NiteCore has only slightly lower output but better efficiency/runtime. And this is with a medium OP reflector vs. a smooth reflector in the case of the P3D, if the NiteCore was used with a smooth reflector it would probably have close to or higher output levels to the P3D, OP trade a bit in raw output for an improved beam. A 14500 and RCR123 are approximately the same in energy capacity, and for only very slightly lower output compared to the P1 (2700 lux vs. 2950 lux), you get a noticeably better runtime, 75 minutes vs. 51 minutes to 50%. I would say that the efficiency improvement over the P3D is even greater, although the P3D has output of ~3400 lux vs. ~2700 lux, the runtime is basically identical and the P3D is using TWO RCR123s vs. the NiteCore's ONE 14500. The NiteCore is a little disappointing on the Eneloop, but still decent. But I'm more impressed with the NiteCore than either of those Fenix lights when using a 14500, it's too bad that a smooth reflector isn't an option.


----------



## Derek Dean (Nov 17, 2007)

Hmmmm, I'm pretty stoked by x2x3x2's review (BTW, thanks. Very well presented in your usual easy to understand and thorough manner). It seems to me that this new little powerhouse does an admirable job of living up to it's claims so far. 

While it is *very* important to me that the light has the capability to run on an alkaline battery (and it seems to do that well enough for me), I've got a feeling that most of the members here on CPF (me included) will be running these on either 14500 rechargeable lithium-ion cells, or rechargeable NiMh cells...... and that while runtime is always a factor, what drew me to this light was the promise of a simplified UI that also offered an independently selectable output level, as well as the extremely nicely designed, and tough appearing surface, and to top it off...... the promise of an excitingly high maximum output level with what appears to be excellent regulation while using a NiMh 1.5 volt AA cell. 

The output on the 14500 looks very promising, and even the output on an alkaline cell looks, to me, to be within reasonable expectations. I'm hoping that we will see the output on a NiMh cell to be along those same lines. 

One of my concerns was the beam quality and tint, especially after viewing the UTube video, but if the beam photos in x2x3x2's review are any indication of what I can expect, then I'll be a happy camper with that aspect of the lights performance.

Personally, I can't imagine what those who feel mislead were expecting, but it certainly seems to still be a bit early in the game to start talking about refunds. I'm looking forward to selfbuilt's review for another perspective.


----------



## gravityz (Nov 17, 2007)

phantom23 said:


> Remember that Nitecore has medium OP reflector (P2D and L2D smooth). Spot intensity is reduced by 20-30% because of it.


 
is there medium OP and smooth OP!!!!!!!!!!

new L1DCE and L2DCE's also have OP


----------



## cave dave (Nov 17, 2007)

chadwide said:


> .... I'm feeling quite mislead and will probably be seeking a refund....


Consider BST instead of returning if you got the intro price.


----------



## chadwide (Nov 17, 2007)

BST Is a good idea. Based on the claimed output, I was expecting this to outperform by p1d-ce (P4 Bin) But thats a not looking like the case. I really don't get how they could estimate the difference between Li-Ion and NiHM to be about 5% when the reviews show more like 35%.

I guess what I really need to see is the current at the LED with NiMH. I was hoping that this light was going to be pushing 600 Mah or so. 

Its nice that the efficency is high, but I skeptical that it is any higher than a Q5 equipped fenix. Its just not looking like the break though I thought it was.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 17, 2007)

chadwide said:


> I just compared the output numbers on this to several light on Light Reviews.com. It looks like the output in both the spill and spot are less than the premium bin fenix lights on a 3.7v battery. Also, I was assuming a much better performance on AAs. I know that its technically possible to get around 180 emitter lumens from an AA, but both the spot and spill on AA is significantly lower than the P2D CE which is advertised as only 135. I'm feeling quite mislead and will probably be seeking a refund.
> 
> If the proclaimed 180 lumens on AA is actually significantly less output than other lights advertised as 135 lumens, I think this constitutes something worse than just "Optimistic" ratings.


 
It's really too early to make such a conclusion. You maybe right, but LUX numbers are only part of the equation. Things like the size of the beam, the size of the hot spot, etc, all factor in. Also as others have pointed out you are comparing the Nitecore with an OP to a P3D and P2D with a smooth reflector, so that gives them an advantage with the LUX readings, mainly in the hot spot. 

We'll have to see what the production version does when we all get them.


----------



## gravityz (Nov 17, 2007)

chadwide said:


> BST Is a good idea. Based on the claimed output, I was expecting this to outperform by p1d-ce (P4 Bin) But thats a not looking like the case. I really don't get how they could estimate the difference between Li-Ion and NiHM to be about 5% when the reviews show more like 35%.
> 
> I guess what I really need to see is the current at the LED with NiMH. I was hoping that this light was going to be pushing 600 Mah or so.
> 
> Its nice that the efficency is high, but I skeptical that it is any higher than a Q5 equipped fenix. Its just not looking like the break though I thought it was.


 
if you had the intro price for $40 i would have taken it.

$60 is a bit to much i think for this light.(unless specs change on this thing)


----------



## chadwide (Nov 17, 2007)

Ok. I can see how the ratings we have might not be the whole story. Lets just say that since the review I have become more skeptical.


----------



## gravityz (Nov 17, 2007)

50 minutes runtime on nimh is not much but if the output is 180 lumens i think we can live with it.
also what i would like to know is if the circuitry is lineair

e.g when you adjust the light to output lets say 90 lumens does that double the runtime(like it does with fenix)

i think this is what everybody is after
a lineair light with lineair tradeoff when it comes to batterylife

360 lumens for 30 minutes (we wish)
180 lumens for 1 hour(doubtfull accoording to the reviews)
90 lumens for 2 hours(hopefully selfbuilt will reveal this one)
5 lumens for 50 hours (this is the only one which is probably in there)


----------



## Tubor (Nov 17, 2007)

gravtyz said:


> 50 minutes runtime on nimh is not much but if the output is 180 lumens i think we can live with it.
> also what i would like to know is if the circuitry is lineair
> 
> e.g when you adjust the light to output lets say 90 lumens does that double the runtime(like it does with fenix)
> ...



Sounds good! Personally I'd be happy with 360 lumens for 10 minutes (or just for "burst" use).


----------



## selfbuilt (Nov 17, 2007)

Sorry for the confusion guys - the mod's have moved my full review into x2x3x2 discussion thread in the Reviews forum, post #41

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2229821

Scroll down to post #41 to see my detailed analysis of this light.

Enjoy!


----------



## whc (Nov 17, 2007)

If you twist the head to switch modes (like from high to strobe), is it also possible to tab the clicky from off since it is a forward clicky, or is it possible to use momentary without changing modes (it can only switch modes by head twisting)?


----------



## mmmflashlights (Nov 17, 2007)

gravtyz said:


> 50 minutes runtime on nimh is not much but if the output is 180 lumens i think we can live with it.
> also what i would like to know is if the circuitry is lineair
> 
> e.g when you adjust the light to output lets say 90 lumens does that double the runtime(like it does with fenix)
> ...


 
Efficiency of LEDs, generally speaking, increase as current is lowered. For example, a Q5 outputs around 240 lumens at 1A (1000ma), but it only takes 350ma to output half of that, ~120 lumens, and increases further in efficiency at lower currents. So just as a basic example, exactly half the output of maximum will have a fair a bit more than double the runtime, LEDs are not linear in efficiency.


----------



## x2x3x2 (Nov 17, 2007)

whc,

The twist head and push button are totally seperate mechanisms so you can do both.
Yes, mode changing is only done via head twists, momentary on doesn't effect any mode changes, unless you're ramping brightness in which case will save the level.


----------



## swxb12 (Nov 17, 2007)

Thank you very much for your efforts, Selfbuilt! Amazing light.



selfbuilt said:


> Sorry for the confusion guys - the mod's have moved my full review into x2x3x2 discussion thread in the Reviews forum, post #41
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2229821
> 
> ...


----------



## Unforgiven (Nov 17, 2007)

_As posted before, any discussion of administrative action is not permitted on CPF or the Market Place. Some of the more recent posts discussing this have been removed. Lets try to get this thread back on topic and away from administration._


Carry on.


----------



## whc (Nov 18, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> whc,
> 
> The twist head and push button are totally seperate mechanisms so you can do both.
> Yes, mode changing is only done via head twists, momentary on doesn't effect any mode changes, unless you're ramping brightness in which case will save the level.


Very nice, thanks for the reply. Nice you have to use the head for changing modes (was a little worried that the strobe could be activated when using momentary on).


----------



## gravityz (Nov 18, 2007)

mmmflashlights said:


> Efficiency of LEDs, generally speaking, increase as current is lowered. For example, a Q5 outputs around 240 lumens at 1A (1000ma), but it only takes 350ma to output half of that, ~120 lumens, and increases further in efficiency at lower currents. So just as a basic example, exactly half the output of maximum will have a fair a bit more than double the runtime, LEDs are not linear in efficiency.


 

you are right but you are talking about the current which is running through the led
i am talking about th current which is drawn from the battery.
what makes the batterycurrent liniear is the circuitry(at least with fenix)
so i think the circuitry is partly compensating

offcourse there is always the question on how our eyes percept things

eg
the L1DCE draws 1.1 amps from the battery while on high
on turbo it draws 1.4 amps but you hardly see any difference in brightness.
in this case 1.1 is the better choice because you get a lot more runtime on 1.1 amps then on 1.4 amps(2:40 versus 1:50 that's almost a whole hour)

with 2 aa's howevr you go from 1.1 to 1.9 amps in turbo but light increases also about 80% this because indeed at 2x AA turbo mode


----------



## AFAustin (Nov 18, 2007)

Moved to the Reviews thread.


----------



## Diode (Nov 19, 2007)

x2x3x2 said:


> The twist head and push button are totally seperate mechanisms so you can do both.


Can you do momentary strobe?


----------



## Thujone (Nov 19, 2007)

It would be nice to have these reviews in their own respective threads... Once two of the authors get back this thread will get cluttered in a hurry with msgs being directed at three reviewers.


----------



## BobbyRS (Nov 19, 2007)

Thujone said:


> It would be nice to have these reviews in their own respective threads... Once two of the authors get back this thread will get cluttered in a hurry with msgs being directed at three reviewers.


 
I second this! All-in-one thread will cause too much confusion and "off-topics".


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## Gatsby (Nov 19, 2007)

Some nice performance specs - I'm not sure I'm completely sold on the functionality compared to the LF5 - I like 3 levels and use a low low and a roughly 40% level on several programmable lights along with max 100% which is used less. 

Still - it does put up some nice numbers and the non linear ramp is a nice feature - a definite weakness in the LF5.


----------



## mchlwise (Nov 20, 2007)

Thujone said:


> It would be nice to have these reviews in their own respective threads...



Yes... it would.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 23, 2007)

In case anyone missed the latest regards to shipping of the Nitecore,EDGETAC has replied in the CPFM.

I'll post a copy here 


Sorry for late reply here! 

As to the shipping date of NiteCore Defender Infinity most of you here concerned, as announced on the OP of our sale thread, we are trying to manage to ship the lights *end of Nov*., and *within first week of Dec. the latest* in case of any problems may occure during mass production, so we will keep posting new pictures to show all of you the process of the busy on-going producing in the factory, more pictures will come soon...

Let us know if any questions, thanks!


----------



## srvctec (Nov 23, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> In case anyone missed the latest regards to shipping of the Nitecore,EDGETAC has replied in the CPFM.
> 
> I'll post a copy here
> 
> ...



Yup, everything *seems* to be going great with the light. Hope it all pans out in the end and we get our lights in the next 3-4 weeks- really looking forward to this one.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Nov 23, 2007)

srvctec said:


> Yup, everything *seems* to be going great with the light. Hope it all pans out in the end and we get our lights in the next 3-4 weeks- really looking forward to this one.


+1 also if anyone missed this (CONTACT EDGETAC WITH PHONE NO IF YOU ASKED FOR EMS SHIPPING) :thumbsup:


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## srvctec (Nov 24, 2007)

There are less than 10 lights left. See this post for info


----------



## curry__muncha (Nov 24, 2007)

HOLY CRAP, lol


----------



## aceo07 (Nov 24, 2007)

curry__muncha said:


> HOLY CRAP, lol



Yup, apparently someone ordered 100 lights or more.


----------



## robo21 (Nov 24, 2007)

Has anyone seen any update of the number of available lights remaining? It has to be down to at least 7 or less by now.


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## TITAN1833 (Nov 24, 2007)

robo21 said:


> Has anyone seen any update of the number of available lights remaining? It has to be down to at least 7 or less by now.


I think it is -7 now!:green:


----------



## robo21 (Nov 24, 2007)

whoops, looks like some are going to be getting refunds instead of flashlights. :sigh: How did you determine this?


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 28, 2007)

So, any news yet on shipping?


----------



## robo21 (Nov 29, 2007)

I received a reply PM yesterday that indicated they will ship during the first week in December at the latest. Sounds good.


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 29, 2007)

Goodbye to any chance of seeing it before christmas. *sigh*


----------



## robo21 (Nov 29, 2007)

Wanna bet?  I think we will see them before Christmas in the US. UK it may be close.

Oops, I just noticed you are in Italy. It may be cutting it close for Christmas. Well, try to stay positive. You could say it's an early '08 Christmas present maybe?


----------



## Fallingwater (Nov 29, 2007)

Most non-EMS packages from HK take about three weeks to get here, with some taking considerably longer. 
Add vacation time and increased postal traffic for christmas and it's not looking good. I hope to see it in the first days of january...


----------



## Art Vandelay (Nov 29, 2007)

It does not have a [SIZE=-1]potentiometer right? 

Is it like a "P" Novatac with programmable levels?
[/SIZE]


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Nov 29, 2007)

I don't think we'll see it by christmas in the states either. I can say however that I'd be suprised if we did and with my fingers crossed, I'm hoping that we do.



Fallingwater said:


> Most non-EMS packages from HK take about three weeks to get here, with some taking considerably longer.
> Add vacation time and increased postal traffic for christmas and it's not looking good. I hope to see it in the first days of january...


----------



## swxb12 (Dec 3, 2007)

Good morning,

I just noticed that TADGear has some additional photos up of the NiteCore DI:

(link)

Is it the 8th yet?

sw


----------



## AFAustin (Dec 4, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I just noticed that TADGear has some additional photos up of the NiteCore DI:
> 
> ...



Nice photos, thanks for the link. 

The NiteCore looks like a pretty good companion to that E2L---hope they look that good in person (even though my E2L lacks the fancy "crown")!


----------



## Daniel_sk (Dec 4, 2007)

More pictures from the production at the pre-order thread.

Here is one:


----------



## TITAN1833 (Dec 4, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> More pictures from the production at the pre-order thread.
> 
> Here is one:


 Strange tail end on no'4 on the left,looks like it has feet,or could it be the way the picture was taken.Anyway looking good :thumbsup:

Shipping this week I belive


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Dec 4, 2007)

We can only hope for the shipping. I remember waiting about 2 months or so for my Jetbeam C-LE, and even longer for my Rexlight 2.0.
I hope EDGE Tac has better production luck than the previous two highly anticipated lights.


----------



## curry__muncha (Dec 4, 2007)

wow.. that looks soo hot!



TITAN1833 said:


> Strange tail end on no'4 on the left,looks like it has feet,or could it be the way the picture was taken.Anyway looking good :thumbsup:



im guessing might be part of the anti roll feature? :lol:


----------



## luminata (Dec 4, 2007)

You actually could be looking at the very light you will receive in that picture. 
I wonder if we mention it here or start another thread and post the question "who got the light with the "feet" on the tail end maybe we will get an answer. 
_It will probably get caught in QC before it gets out anyway though , at least it should ..._


----------



## Daniel_sk (Dec 4, 2007)

I am pretty sure it's not a faulty piece - it's because of the camera angle.


----------



## selfbuilt (Dec 4, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


>





Daniel_sk said:


> I am pretty sure it's not a faulty piece - it's because of the camera angle.


Agreed, it's just a funny angle. Playing with my pre-production sample, I can get a similar effect if I angle it just right. Note too that the tailcaps aren't installed yet, so shadow effects can also be at play here.

These new exterior body pics look exactly like the one I've reviewed.


----------



## frankr (Dec 9, 2007)

So, does anyone have any confirmation that they have started shipping??


----------



## Norm (Dec 9, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Strange tail end on no'4 on the left,looks like it has feet,or could it be the way the picture was taken.Anyway looking good :thumbsup:
> 
> Shipping this week I belive



Your looking at the lanyard slots from the side.
Norm


----------



## adirondackdestroyer (Dec 9, 2007)

frankr said:


> So, does anyone have any confirmation that they have started shipping??


 
Wondering the same. 

He didn't post at all today so maybe that means he was busy shipping out lights (I hope). 
Either way I'm really looking forward to the DI and especially the Titan!


----------



## z-b-i (Dec 9, 2007)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> Wondering the same.
> 
> He didn't post at all today so maybe that means he was busy shipping out lights (I hope).
> Either way I'm really looking forward to the DI and especially the Titan!



Some pictures from his latest posting:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2094999&postcount=1089


----------



## srvctec (Dec 9, 2007)

The first batch has been shipped.


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 10, 2007)

Got no PMs or emails. Hopefully I'm in the second batch, as I made the order just after the $50 offer ended.


----------



## srvctec (Dec 10, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> Got no PMs or emails. Hopefully I'm in the second batch, as I made the order just after the $50 offer ended.



I'm 292 in line, so it might be a while before they ship mine. Hopefully in the next couple of days.


----------



## EVAN_TAD (Dec 10, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I just noticed that TADGear has some additional photos up of the NiteCore DI:
> 
> ...



If you come by the shop we can show you the sample that we have.


----------



## winston (Dec 10, 2007)

EVAN_TAD said:


> If you come by the shop we can show you the sample that we have.



I think I'm going to have to go see TADGear tomorrow morning.
-Winston


----------



## adirondackdestroyer (Dec 10, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> Got no PMs or emails. Hopefully I'm in the second batch, as I made the order just after the $50 offer ended.


 
I'm not sure if they have sent any PM's or emails so far, because I was the very first person to buy the light (post #3), and I haven't received any message yet. When I do I'll post in here. The light looks incredible and the packaging looks fantastic as well!


----------



## lightfire (Dec 10, 2007)

I received a tracking # for my Nitecore D-I shipment.


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Dec 10, 2007)

lightfire said:


> I received a tracking # for my Nitecore D-I shipment.



I should have paid for EMS


----------



## robo21 (Dec 10, 2007)

I paid for EMS yesterday and my tracking number came in early this morning!! Woot Woot! :twothumbs


----------



## McGizmo (Dec 10, 2007)

EVAN_TAD said:


> If you come by the shop we can show you the sample that we have.


 
Hi Evan,
I looked at the link to the TAD page and got excited when I read about the light using an Energizer E2 Li-Ion battery because I didn't know that Energizer had entered the rechargeable Li-Ion game. With some google help, I realized that this must be a lithium battery being referenced and not a Li-Ion. Darn!


----------



## Rzr800 (Dec 10, 2007)

McGizmo said:


> Hi Evan,
> I looked at the link to the TAD page and got excited when I read about the light using an Energizer E2 Li-Ion battery because I didn't know that Energizer had entered the rechargeable Li-Ion game. With some google help, I realized that this must be a lithium battery being referenced and not a Li-Ion. Darn!


 
Kind of funny (in a newbie's mind at least) that the Infinity is not designed to handle these while the Spear is evidently fed nothing _but_ Li-on (or that is the way I understand it).
*Edit: Incorrect; the Infinity is Li-ion capable; thank you Titan and Self-built *


----------



## whc (Dec 10, 2007)

Got my tracking number today also, very nice.

For everyone with EMS shipping go here for tracking: http://www.ems.com.cn/english-main.jsp

Nothing shows up for mine yet, but hopefully soon .


----------



## TITAN1833 (Dec 10, 2007)

Rzr800 said:


> Kind of funny (in a newbie's mind at least) that the Infinity is not designed to handle these while the Spear is evidently fed nothing _but_ Li-on (or that is the way I understand it).


Rzr800,well I am going to use AW's 14500 LI-ION in mine :naughty:

In fact selfbuilt noted better results,if memory serves.


----------



## adamlau (Dec 10, 2007)

Another wishlist light...I have to stop perusing around the CPF forums...It is costing me way too much...


----------



## selfbuilt (Dec 10, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Rzr800,well I am going to use AW's 14500 LI-ION in mine :naughty:
> 
> In fact selfbuilt noted better results,if memory serves.


That's right. To clarify, I've tried both Energizer e2 L91 lithium (primaries) and AW 14500 protected Li-ion (rechargeable), and both work fine.

I haven't reported results with e2 lithiums, since they are not part of my standard runtime testing regimen (those e2 lithiums are none too cheap to burn up ). But I can tell you that initial output on e2 lithium is exactly the same as standard alkaline or NiMH in all the modes I did try. I would expect runtime to be significantly increased on e2 lithiums, of course.

Glad to see EDGETAC got these shipped according to their posted timeframe. Looks like a nice final package.

FYI, EDGETAC is also supposed to send me a final shipping version, so I'll be able to directly compare to the pre-production sample I have on hand.


----------



## WadeF (Dec 10, 2007)

Yeah, the Nitecore and it's packaging, and lanyard, look awesome in the photos of the finished product. I'm very excited to receive mine.

Selfbuilt - have you heard anything about the circuit being changed from your beta sample? I thought somewhere I saw them talking about tweaking the circuit, and it sounded like that would have been after yours was sent to you. Be cool if they production models have more output than the beta sample you got.  I'll look forward to hear your review between the two.


----------



## selfbuilt (Dec 10, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Be cool if they production models have more output than the beta sample you got.  I'll look forward to hear your review between the two.


I know EDGETAC was going to change the switching time from 1 sec on my review sample to 0.5 secs (although I don't know if that will be the case in the current 500 mail-out).

In terms of output, EDGETAC has been very clear with me that they are not planning to increase it any higher than it is. As I expected, their concern is over thermal management in such a small AA form factor (especially on 14500 Li-ion). As they've said to me, their larger CR123/RCR/18650 lights will feature considerably brighter output.


----------



## Rzr800 (Dec 10, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Rzr800,well I am going to use AW's 14500 LI-ION in mine :naughty:
> 
> In fact selfbuilt noted better results,if memory serves.


 
Thanks for the correction, my friend ...and I just had my first ever batch of Li-ions sent half-way across the world for that Spear and didn't order any 14500's...:shakehead

I must've latched onto this comment by selfbuilt weeks ago and closed my mind to everything else:
*"...Anyway you slice it, the Nitecore is the brightest 1AA light on regular batteries (NiMH and alkaline) that I’ve tested to date..."*


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 11, 2007)

Any data on how it behaves with LiFePO4 14500 cells?


----------



## phrozen (Dec 11, 2007)

Forward from HongKong "Flashlightorum" :wave:

http://www.flashlightforum.hk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3353


look like great~~


----------



## swxb12 (Dec 11, 2007)

phrozen said:


> Forward from HongKong "Flashlightorum" :wave:
> 
> http://www.flashlightforum.hk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3353
> 
> ...



Pretty damn cool...thanks for the link, phrozen.






(from the link)


----------



## srvctec (Dec 11, 2007)

phrozen said:


> Forward from HongKong "Flashlightorum" :wave:
> 
> http://www.flashlightforum.hk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3353
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link- there are lots of really close shots of the NDI on that page.


----------



## swxb12 (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm not quite sure if I would have wanted this to be included...






O well


----------



## srvctec (Dec 11, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> I'm not quite sure if I would have wanted this to be included...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why? I like that one the best. It's advertised right on the light that it's really bright.


----------



## swxb12 (Dec 11, 2007)

I guess their marketing really is genius, as mentioned by others.


----------



## robo21 (Dec 11, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> I'm not quite sure if I would have wanted this to be included...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Liability prevention! C.Y.A.
Just be glad it isn't in dayglow orange!


----------



## jasonsmaglites (Dec 11, 2007)

i would have ordered one but it was too confusing. 
i posted just a couple days after the thread started and my price was $20 higher than the first couple people that posted. 
plus it wasn't like going to fenix store and clicking on a link. 
i even pm'ed the guy selling it and got no response. 
i would have loved to preorder one, my finger was on the paypal button, but i got lost in the masses. 

so i just started a thread debating buying a fenix l1d q5 combo pack. 
should be just as bright on 14500s right?

still the nightcore was that bright on aa's and PLUS had infinite low low too. 

i could sell all my other single aa lights if i had gotten in on this buy. 
how much are they now and where do you buy one at?


----------



## robo21 (Dec 11, 2007)

jasonsmaglites said:


> i would have ordered one but it was too confusing.
> i posted just a couple days after the thread started and my price was $20 higher than the first couple people that posted.
> plus it wasn't like going to fenix store and clicking on a link.
> i even pm'ed the guy selling it and got no response.
> ...


 
$79.95 at Tad Gear. :twothumbs


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 12, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> I'm not quite sure if I would have wanted this to be included...
> http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9753/strongmk1.jpg
> O well


Is there any way to non-abrasively (i.e. chemically) remove that? It's horrible.
I won't cry if I can't remove it, as looks have never meant much for me, but it's still a pity to see something so beatifully machined ruined by that white splotch. :shakehead


----------



## robo21 (Dec 12, 2007)

jasonsmaglites said:


> *i would have ordered one but it was too confusing. *
> i posted just a couple days after the thread started and my price was $20 higher than the first couple people that posted.
> plus it wasn't like going to fenix store and clicking on a link.
> i even pm'ed the guy selling it and got no response.
> ...


 
It was a Feeding Frenzy! Then  they were gone.


----------



## Diode (Dec 12, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> I'm not quite sure if I would have wanted this to be included...


Agreed. I also don't care for the "www.NiteCore.com" (on the battery tube). I think "NiteCore(R)" is enough.

Oh well...


----------



## Daniel_sk (Dec 12, 2007)

"Strong light" label? What were they thinking? 
I can live with that, but I wish they didn't use this "warning" label....


----------



## Diode (Dec 12, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> "Strong light" label? What were they thinking?
> I can live with that, but I wish they didn't use this "warning" label....


A *real* warning label should read "WARNING: Do not look into light with remaining eye!"


----------



## TITAN1833 (Dec 12, 2007)

It's also printed on the spear too!!

But it will not bother me,as long as it works.


----------



## NoFair (Dec 12, 2007)

The "Strong light" warning was a bit over the top:shakehead

If a HID doesn't need it neither does this. 

I like my lights clean and without too much writing or engraving. I saw the Spear had it too. A bit of a bummer, but no biggie for me.

Sverre


----------



## Tubor (Dec 12, 2007)

-1 for the graffiti on the battery tube - I expect more from a so called high-grade light. :green: Hope it's going to be removable without ruining the HAIII finish. Stupid.


----------



## ankhbr (Dec 12, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> Is there any way to non-abrasively (i.e. chemically) remove that? It's horrible.
> I won't cry if I can't remove it, as looks have never meant much for me, but it's still a pity to see something so beatifully machined ruined by that white splotch. :shakehead



+1 on that.
I'd like to remove it, if possible (w/o damaging the light).


----------



## robo21 (Dec 12, 2007)

Although, in reality, during the actual use of the light the text on the light will not be visible.


----------



## ankhbr (Dec 12, 2007)

Specially if you look into the light!


----------



## robo21 (Dec 12, 2007)

:laughing:


----------



## copperfox (Dec 12, 2007)

"Strong light" is lame but overall I don't think the labels looks that bad.


----------



## Lobo (Dec 12, 2007)

I've seen the "Warning, hot surface"(or something) on other highend highpowered LED-lights, I think that was what they were aiming for, but something got lost in the translation. 
Same thing with the URL, believe I've seen some surefires with the URL on the tailcap.

Did anyone else notice the Nitecore-star right over one of the slots in those pictures? Looks a bit weird.

But still, it's one of the best looking AA-lights out there.


----------



## swxb12 (Dec 12, 2007)

I'm able to track my light using USPS and EMS sites now. It's just been dropped for for EMS in Shanghai and will hopefully get to me soon.


----------



## robo21 (Dec 12, 2007)

Lobo said:


> I've seen the "Warning, hot surface"(or something) on other highend highpowered LED-lights, I think that was what they were aiming for, but something got lost in the translation.
> Same thing with the URL, believe I've seen some surefires with the URL on the tailcap.
> 
> Did anyone else notice the Nitecore-star right over one of the slots in those pictures? Looks a bit weird.
> ...


 
While I agree that the esthetic appearance of the light might be nicer if the URL and warning were omitted from the light, the truth is that when in use it really won't matter. 

I'm more concerned with the functionality of the flashlight. Now if the flashlight were anodized in hot pink then I might have a major objection.


----------



## WadeF (Dec 12, 2007)

What process is used to put the white text and graphics on the light? Would acetone take it off?  It's not only ugly "Strong Light" ? Ooof.  

I went with EMS for the EdgeTac stuff, still no action with my tracking #.  I wonder if mine was shipped in a later batch.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Dec 12, 2007)

WadeF said:


> What process is used to put the white text and graphics on the light? Would acetone take it off?  It's not only ugly "Strong Light" ? Ooof.
> 
> I went with EMS for the EdgeTac stuff, still no action with my tracking #.  I wonder if mine was shipped in a later batch.


I would test it first,on a light that you don't use.
but the white should come of easily IMO.


----------



## Derek Dean (Dec 12, 2007)

Diode said:


> A *real* warning label should read "WARNING: Do not look into light with remaining eye!"


  :laughing:


----------



## TITAN1833 (Dec 12, 2007)

Lobo said:


> I've seen the "Warning, hot surface"(or something) on other highend highpowered LED-lights, I think that was what they were aiming for, but something got lost in the translation.
> Same thing with the URL, believe I've seen some surefires with the URL on the tailcap.
> 
> Did anyone else notice the Nitecore-star right over one of the slots in those pictures? Looks a bit weird.
> ...


Lobo,yes I did notice the star,I just hope the moon is not on the other side,I must admit it is looking like a scetch book,however still a great looking AA light.




EDIT:BTW they should have whitened that x in keeping with the theme,lol


----------



## robo21 (Dec 12, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I went with EMS for the EdgeTac stuff, still no action with my tracking #.  I wonder if mine was shipped in a later batch.


 
Wade, have you PM'd Y.L. Wong? That's what I did when I converted my shipping from standard to EMS and I got a speedy reply. She said she was going to ship via EMS even before I sent my PayPal. 

I got my EMS tracking the next day along with a note saying that I should wait for 2 days prior to tracking.

I tracked this morning and it's in Shanghai. 

It could be that your package shipped and you just weren't notified. A PM will probably clear up the confusion. Good luck!


----------



## NoFair (Dec 12, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> I would test it first,on a light that you don't use.
> but the white should come of easily IMO.


 
The white is usually a laser engraving and won't come off...

Sverre


----------



## robo21 (Dec 12, 2007)

NoFair said:


> The white is usually a laser engraving and won't come off...
> 
> Sverre


 
A Dremel with a grinding wheel will remove it fairly quickly or another laser engraver.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Dec 12, 2007)

NoFair said:


> The white is usually a laser engraving and won't come off...
> 
> Sverre


Yes agreed, but like the novatac it could be dulled so not so noticeable,I should not have said it will come off easily :green: sorry.


----------



## acusifu (Dec 12, 2007)

If anyone ordered one of these and decides they can part with it please PM me.


----------



## this_is_nascar (Dec 12, 2007)

I hope this light lives up to all it's hype. I'm looking forward to reading the reviews. From what I've read so, it sounds very promising. I love the overal dimension and looks of the light, however it appears that it's being used as a freakin' billboard. Nothing but advertisements, labeling, caution warnings, etc.


----------



## srvctec (Dec 12, 2007)

swxb12 said:


> I'm able to track my light using USPS and EMS sites now. It's just been dropped for for EMS in Shanghai and will hopefully get to me soon.



No love here yet. :mecry: No PM or email, so I guess mine hasn't even shipped yet. *Trying* to wait patiently.


----------



## srvctec (Dec 12, 2007)

There's one thing we may be overlooking here in regards to the logos on the lights. Those pics came from a Chinese forum and maybe our lights won't even have all this "billboard" stuff on it. Crossing my fingers for this, although it's not going to be a deal breaker for me. This is one of the best looking AA lights I've ever seen and the performance (at least of the reviewed lights) is pretty darn good as well.


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 12, 2007)

Again I ask: is there any data on behaviour from LiFePO4 14500 cells? Selfbuilt, any chance you could test it with those?


----------



## Daylo (Dec 12, 2007)

Man, the graffiti might be a deal breaker for me. I sure hope the ones shipped to the US are different. Does NiteCore really need to state "Strong Light" on the bezel? Do they feel they needs to convince people how bright it is? Even if they are just covering their buts from sue happy Americans it's still lame.


----------



## Vikas Sontakke (Dec 12, 2007)

Daylo said:


> Man, the graffiti might be a deal breaker for me. I sure hope the ones shipped to the US are different.



I think if you want to unload it, you will have no trouble at all. Too many of CPF'er would love to buy it from you.

- Vikas


----------



## srvctec (Dec 12, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> Again I ask: is there any data on behaviour from LiFePO4 14500 cells? Selfbuilt, any chance you could test it with those?



I thought 14500 cells were pretty much all the same. I imagine the performance of LiFePO4 14500's (whatever those are) will be much the same as the one selfbuilt used for testing so long as the chemical make up is the same (which it _should_ be since they are lithium ion).


----------



## acusifu (Dec 12, 2007)

Vikas Sontakke said:


> I think if you want to unload it, you will have no trouble at all. Too many of CPF'er would love to buy it from you.
> 
> - Vikas



I would !


----------



## acusifu (Dec 12, 2007)

Anyone willing to sell me theirs I would pay retail. TADGEAR doesn't have any yet and I missed the group buy.


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 12, 2007)

srvctec said:


> I thought 14500 cells were pretty much all the same. I imagine the performance of LiFePO4 14500's (whatever those are) will be much the same as the one selfbuilt used for testing so long as the chemical make up is the same (which it _should_ be since they are lithium ion).


Different chemistry.


----------



## eggoo (Dec 13, 2007)

someone has received his NiteCore production version already. Its posted on a chinese forum. http://www.flashlightforum.hk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3353


----------



## srvctec (Dec 13, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> Different chemistry.



Ahhh, I learned something today. Thanks for the link!


----------



## srvctec (Dec 13, 2007)

eggoo said:


> someone has received his NiteCore production version already. Its posted on a chinese forum. http://www.flashlightforum.hk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3353



Ummmmm, that's where all the pics since post #597 in this thread came from.


----------



## Inferno (Dec 13, 2007)

Well, hitting the unwanted markings with Tal-Strip Aircraft Paint Remover should do the trick; I took the "Dorcy" logo off of my Metal Gear that way and it didn't harm the cheap anodizing one bit... I may remove the "STRONG LIGHT" warning and web addy, if anything. I kinda like the exclamation point marking on the head, but the Cuban Air Force logo? I dunno...


----------



## Lobo (Dec 13, 2007)

Inferno said:


> Well, hitting the unwanted markings with Tal-Strip Aircraft Paint Remover should do the trick; I took the "Dorcy" logo off of my Metal Gear that way and it didn't harm the cheap anodizing one bit... I may remove the "STRONG LIGHT" warning and web addy, if anything. I kinda like the exclamation point marking on the head, but the Cuban Air Force logo? I dunno...



I got ridd of the Dorcy Metal Gear logo by only using it a couple of hours. 
Don't think it was laser etched on mine, it just rubbed off.

Cuban Air Force logo?


----------



## ingokl (Dec 13, 2007)

Lobo said:


> Cuban Air Force logo?


 
I think he means the EDGETC logo


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Dec 13, 2007)

If all else fails I can use a sharpie. 

I don't care much about the markings on the outside of the light. It will spend most of its life inside my backpack, my pockets, or my light bag anyway.

~9 days to get to me before the Solstice. I'm doubting that my snail-mail method will make it by then.  But it appeared EDGE Tac tried hard. They missed Hanukkah. Perhaps some lights will squeak in before Christmas. Looking forward to reviews this weekend maybe for those EMS big spenders.


----------



## Sigman (Dec 13, 2007)

Their logo reminds me of my Avionics Maintenance badge from my service days. 
Here's a wiki page that has links to the US Military badges.


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 13, 2007)

I just ordered two LiFePO4 14500 cells from DX. If nobody tests the flashlight with LiFe cells before I get it, I'll do it myself and post the results.


----------



## 65535 (Dec 13, 2007)

It looks like it works from 1.5-4.2 volts so you should be fine.


----------



## sawlight (Dec 13, 2007)

I was thinking this might be a cheap substitute for my Novatac for EDC and rough use. I can live with the "graffiti", but from the sounds of things it's a month wait!!! Thats a deal breaker for me!!


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 13, 2007)

65535 said:


> It looks like it works from 1.5-4.2 volts so you should be fine.


I'm sure it will work, but I'm curious about runtime and current draw. 
Based on Selfbuilt's graphs, the Nitecore runs on turbo for 70 minutes on a 750mah LiIon 14500. With the considerable capacity loss and slightly lower voltage of the LiFe cells (LiFe AAs only have a capacity of maybe 400-450mah) I'm expecting 25 to 30 minutes of turbo mode before the cells need to be recharged.

The lack of protection circuitry on LiFes is a bad thing for flashlights like this one, though. If left unchecked it'll happily run a LiFe down to one volt and maybe even less. LiFes are less sensitive to overdischarge than LiIons, but it's still not good for them.

I also got two protected LiIon 14500s on DX, by the way. I'll test it with all three kinds of rechargeables (the third being LSD NiMH, of course) and then I'll see which I prefer.


----------



## selfbuilt (Dec 14, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> I'm sure it will work, but I'm curious about runtime and current draw.
> The lack of protection circuitry on LiFes is a bad thing for flashlights like this one, though. If left unchecked it'll happily run a LiFe down to one volt and maybe even less.


Actually, the NiteCore does have a low battery warning on 14500. 

If you look at my runtimes, you will see little "squiggles" at the end of the 14500 runs on this light. This is from the light sensing the low voltage, and going into a blinking state. The light blinked for ~5-10 mins before the built-in battery protection circuits kicked in (the lightbox doesn't capture the brief blinks well, hence the small squiggles).

EDIT: more I think about, the less sure I am about LiFePO4 and low voltage warnings (don't have any to test).


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 14, 2007)

But isn't the low-voltage sensor geared for LiIon voltage? LiFe cells have lower voltage by design (as you surely know). Wouldn't that trip the sensor way too early?
Or does it detect the inability of the cell to supply the required current?


----------



## LauraQ (Dec 16, 2007)

Any word on when TAD Gear will be getting these in stock? (Apparently, the little flashaholic voice in my head will not be quiet until I get one....!)


----------



## selfbuilt (Dec 16, 2007)

Fallingwater said:


> But isn't the low-voltage sensor geared for LiIon voltage? LiFe cells have lower voltage by design (as you surely know). Wouldn't that trip the sensor way too early?
> Or does it detect the inability of the cell to supply the required current?


Good point ... I know AW recommends you don't run his LiFePO4 cells below 2V, but I'm not I'm not sure how the low voltage warning would work with all the various LiFe cells out there. :thinking: You might want to check with the experts with in the batteries forum for your specific cells.


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 17, 2007)

Eh. I have two LiFe 14500s on order from DX already. If they work, fine. If they don't... oh well, I'll find something else to use them on.


----------



## CallMeDave (Dec 17, 2007)

LauraQ said:


> Any word on when TAD Gear will be getting these in stock?



I went by on Saturday (December 15th 2007) and they had not yet received any for play or for pay.



Dave


----------



## gravityz (Dec 17, 2007)

CallMeDave said:


> I went by on Saturday (December 15th 2007) and they had not yet received any for play or for pay.
> 
> 
> 
> Dave


 
so is tadgear the one who got the remaining 120 pieces or did edgetac made more than 500 on the first run?


----------



## sbrody (Dec 17, 2007)

woo hoo! mine came today and i think the logos are a little overdone. i think they will rub off but im not sure. otherwise the light seems great and lit up my dark bathroom but im waiting for nightfall to try it some more! the lanyard is a nice touch too. have patience everyone, they are coming soon!


----------



## WadeF (Dec 17, 2007)

I just got mine today! The Nitecore and Raidfire. All I have to say is WOW. These are COOL lights.  

Still charging my 14500's for the Nitecore, doh, should have done that yesterday, but performance on a AA akaline is impressive. I love the interface. It's kinda like the liteflux, but much easier. When you're in the user defined mode it's just a quick twist to tighten, and then a quick untighten back to the user defined mode and the light will either start getting brighter, or dimmer. Another quick twist back and forth will reverse the dimming or brightening. The low is pretty low. I have it set for the lowest output right now. Tightening the bezel puts you in tactical mode, and full brightness. From tactical mode a quick loosening and tightening throws you into strobe. Simple. 

Overall I am impressed with the quality, the packaging, etc. It comes with a fancy credit card style warranty call, a full color manual, spare o-rings and tail cap, and nice case. I'll try to get a review up tonight.

The Raidfire I'll comment about in the Raidfire topic.


----------



## cat (Dec 17, 2007)

_Cool!_ Some good beamshots coming. :thumbsup: 

NiteCore vs Fenix and Raidfire vs DBS.


----------



## WadeF (Dec 17, 2007)

cat said:


> _Cool!_ Some good beamshots coming. :thumbsup:
> 
> NiteCore vs Fenix and Raidfire vs DBS.


 
I'll tell you right now the beam isn't that impressive. Kinda ringy, yellow Cree ring visiable. Surprised it has an OP reflector with the beam that is has. My P2D Q2 with OP has a much cleaner beam. However, in real world use it should be fine. It's not HORRIBLE, it's just not as clean as some other lights in its class.


----------



## edc3 (Dec 17, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I'll tell you right now the beam isn't that impressive. Kinda ringy, yellow Cree ring visiable. Surprised it has an OP reflector with the beam that is has. My P2D Q2 with OP has a much cleaner beam. However, in real world use it should be fine. It's not HORRIBLE, it's just not as clean as some other lights in its class.



Just got mine today and that is my impression too. No where near the perfect beam of my LM31/33. So far that's the only thing I don't like about it - and it's really not important since I don't plan on using it to inspect the paint on my walls with it. I'm looking forward to using it outside tonight. I also want to compare it's brightness to that of my 5 mode Rebel 100 light.


----------



## robo21 (Dec 17, 2007)

Mine showed up this morning and so far so good. I am looking forward to nightfall for outdoor testing.


----------



## WadeF (Dec 17, 2007)

Just posting some observations before I have a chance to do a formal review. I'm finding the output to be very close to my Fenix P2D Q2, which probably has around 150 emitter lumens on turbo? I know the P3D P4 was 135 emitter lumens, not sure what the Q2 is supposed to be. Also my P2D's battery maybe due for a changing. I don't think it's doing 180-190 lumens as claimed by Edgetac, but it's still plenty bright.


----------



## robo21 (Dec 17, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Just posting some observations before I have a chance to do a formal review. I'm finding the output to be very close to my Fenix P2D Q2, which probably has around 150 emitter lumens on turbo? I know the P3D P4 was 135 emitter lumens, not sure what the Q2 is supposed to be. Also my P2D's battery maybe due for a changing. I don't think it's doing 180-190 lumens as claimed by Edgetac, but it's still plenty bright.


 
Just curious Wade, which cell are you running in your NDI?


----------



## Daniel_sk (Dec 17, 2007)

Wow, that's still plenty bright for a 1x AA battery, considering the L1D CE had 80? lumens.


----------



## WadeF (Dec 17, 2007)

robo21 said:


> Just curious Wade, which cell are you running in your NDI?


 
AW 14500. I'm initially started with a Rayovac alkaline AA. I have to re-test and log my LUX readings.


----------



## sbrody (Dec 17, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I'll tell you right now the beam isn't that impressive. Kinda ringy, yellow Cree ring visiable. Surprised it has an OP reflector with the beam that is has. My P2D Q2 with OP has a much cleaner beam. However, in real world use it should be fine. It's not HORRIBLE, it's just not as clean as some other lights in its class.


 
im going to have to agree with wade. i expected the nitecore to be a bit brighter on high. im far from an expert, but my p1d q5 was noticeably brighter out in the backyard. i love the light and the UI, and the preorder price makes it even better. someone get me a holster please!

forgot to mention im using a generic store brand AA. (thats all i had!)


----------



## Fallingwater (Dec 17, 2007)

Well of course it isn't terribly bright on a generic AA. Try a NiMH or a 14500


----------



## copperfox (Dec 17, 2007)

I can't wait for a review.


----------



## holeymoley (Dec 17, 2007)

edc3 said:


> Just got mine today and that is my impression too. No where near the perfect beam of my LM31/33. So far that's the only thing I don't like about it - and it's really not important since I don't plan on using it to inspect the paint on my walls with it. I'm looking forward to using it outside tonight. I also want to compare it's brightness to that of my 5 mode Rebel 100 light.



Please let us know how this works out.


----------



## robo21 (Dec 17, 2007)

WadeF said:


> AW 14500. I'm initially started with a Rayovac alkaline AA. I have to re-test and log my LUX readings.


 
I started with a Duracell and then a 2400mah NiMH. I'm eager to read your LUX readings. 

Inital eyeball results: Noticeably brighter on the NiMH, not surprising.


----------



## selfbuilt (Dec 17, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I'm finding the output to be very close to my Fenix P2D Q2, which probably has around 150 emitter lumens on turbo? I know the P3D P4 was 135 emitter lumens, not sure what the Q2 is supposed to be.


That's exactly what I observed on my pre-production sample.

If you compare my NiteCore 14500 resullts to the P2D graph from my Fenix head round up, you'll see initial output is almost exactly the same as the P2D-Q2. The P2D-Q2 is in fact marginally brighter once the regulation levels off.

So far, sounds like output is matching my pre-production sample... waiting for my shipping version to arrive.


----------



## edc3 (Dec 18, 2007)

holeymoley said:


> Please let us know how this works out.




I don't have any measuring equipment, but to my eye, the Nitecore is brighter than the MTE Rebel 100 on high.


----------



## V8TOYTRUCK (Dec 18, 2007)

Is TAD Gear the only other place to get the Nitecore?

Damn damn damn I missed the promo price!


----------



## x2x3x2 (Dec 18, 2007)

There are others, just read down the first post in their original thread here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=170991


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Dec 18, 2007)

I hold both of them (Defender and Spear) in my hands for an hour now. I did not manage until now to get a non flikering light out of the defender. Read and try, read again and try again and can not trust the result.

May be I have to come down a little but for the moment, this torch is nothing for my level of intelligence.

Rainer


----------



## WadeF (Dec 18, 2007)

RainerWahnsinn said:


> I hold both of them (Defender and Spear) in my hands for an hour now. I did not manage until now to get a non flikering light out of the defender. Read and try, read again and try again and can not trust the result.
> Rainer


 
Are you saying your Defender was stuck in strobe and you were having trouble getting it out ot strobe? I find if you turn it slowly from tactical mode to user mode, it sometimes activates strobe. I find if I twist faster it's more reliable. If you are in tactical mode and it's strobing, just give it good twist to user mode, and twist right back to tactical (fast) and you'll be out of strobe mode.

I didn't get a chance to put together a review last night, ran out of steam (was decorating the Christmas tree). However, I was trying to use the Nitecore DI as much as I could. 

My biggest complaint is my tailswitch is kinda sloppy. If I press for momentary on but not click, it changes intensity as I press in. I might try taking the switch out, cleaning it, and see if I can put it back together better than it came from the factory.


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## RainerWahnsinn (Dec 18, 2007)

I don't succeed with generating a constant one light with constant brightness. The lamp is unstable and unpredictable. Of course, I acted in accordance with the instruction manual. 

Rainer


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## WadeF (Dec 18, 2007)

RainerWahnsinn said:


> I don't succeed with generating a constant one light with constant brightness. The lamp is unstable and unpredictable. Of course, I acted in accordance with the instruction manual.
> 
> Rainer


 
So if you have everything tight, tail cap, bezel, etc, the light doesn't come on in tactical mode? Which would be either full brightness, or strobe, depending on what mode it was in last. You are clicking it on right, not just pressing the tailswitch lightly for momentary on?


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## orbital (Dec 18, 2007)

+

Nearly two thousand two hundred fifty post (in a few threads) about the DI
~ WOW!!

This, with only a lucky few with light in hand. 
Could that post number double?

Point being, other manufacturers need to take a look at this interest,
for there own upcoming lights...:huh:


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## Rzr800 (Dec 18, 2007)

orbital said:


> +
> Nearly two thousand two hundred fifty post (in a few threads) about the DI
> ~ WOW!!
> This, with only a lucky few with light in hand.
> ...


 
+1...and I'd add that it wasn't all about features and/or design either. Edgetac (frankly) sharpened their pencils on these pre-order prices for us and effectively 'set the bar' for these others manufacturers to follow. I think that the one point often lost in these discussions is the amount of wholesale improvement actually needed in these new bin releases or the lights themselves to appear discernedly different by the naked eye.

These guys proved that you could offer these things at a reasonable price in limited quantities to the good folks who spend their time reviewing them for others...and if (frankly yet again) these other manufacturers feel that these kind of decent discounts aren't warranted in regards to these upcoming releases...I'll wait for the next product/pricing structure from Edgetac to come around that _proves_ a partnership with CPF members is worth sacrificing a little for.


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## edc3 (Dec 18, 2007)

RainerWahnsinn said:


> I don't succeed with generating a constant one light with constant brightness. The lamp is unstable and unpredictable. Of course, I acted in accordance with the instruction manual.
> 
> Rainer




I didn't have a whole lot of time to test my light last night, but I was having problems as well. The light would flicker, dim and completely turn off. I THINK I may have been unscrewing the tailcap slightly while changing modes. I screwed it on very tightly and have been conscious of holding only the body and turning the bezel while changing modes. In very limited use since then I haven't had any problems, but I'll do some more testing tonight.


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## WadeF (Dec 18, 2007)

edc3 said:


> I THINK I may have been unscrewing the tailcap slightly while changing modes. I screwed it on very tightly and have been conscious of holding only the body and turning the bezel while changing modes. In very limited use since then I haven't had any problems, but I'll do some more testing tonight.


 
I know I've accidentally unscrewed the tailcap while changing modes, etc, and that will cause problems for sure.  With my tailcap tight I haven't had any issues. Today I swapped out the black tail switch cover for a GITD one. I also tried working a little deoxIT into the switch, and cleaned the switch contacts with deoxIT. My switch doesn't feel as mushy now and performs better. While GITD isn't as tactical looking, I'm not doing anything tactical with this light.  

I also took lux readings with various batteries for my review. 14500's are putting out 2,200LUX at start up (on my meter), and it drops kinda quick to 2,060-2,100LUX and seems to hang around there. 

If I had to guess, I'd guess the P2D Q2 is putting out more lumens, but I'll have to try taking some readings in a bounce box.


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## Aaron (Dec 18, 2007)

I should have gotten in on the initial buy. So where is the best place to get one, and how soon can I get it?


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## ackbar (Dec 31, 2007)

I've been playing with mine for a few days and it is a nice light but is not a "titan for the masses" by a long shot.


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## KevinL (Dec 31, 2007)

Superb little light. Enjoyed mine a lot, in fact it is now my chosen keyring EDC. Very few lights have had this honor.. the longest serving is my E1e+KL1. 

Not a Titan, but really who cares, at 10% of the price I can live with it. 

Pity it doesn't have a U2 style rotary collar, but once you 'preset' your light level it is ok. I simply drive mine at max anyway. 

In particular, with the lithium ban, the ability to carry and reload using plain ole Duracells or Energizers (no argument over what kind of battery THAT is!!) works great. 

Fit and finish is excellent. I have yet to see this kind of machine work in competing lights. Very few have this attention to detail. 

Kudos to Nitecore for an excellent first light and excellent value for money. Even at MSRP ($80) I'd buy it all over again. Highly recommended. 

Will post my review when it comes up. Right now I'm just enjoying it..


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## Nake (Dec 31, 2007)

Aaron said:


> I should have gotten in on the initial buy. So where is the best place to get one, and how soon can I get it?


 
I believe here is the only place presently.

http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme gear/flashlights main/nitecore.htm


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## Gunnerboy (Dec 31, 2007)

Like KevinL, my NDI has become my new EDC, replacing my JETBeam C-LE v1.2 after five months of reliable use and enjoyment.

I was able to get in the pre-pay for $50 and I consider this money well spent. Kudos to NiteCore and Ms. Wong.

Cheers,
Gary 


 STRONG LIGHT


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## e2x2e (Jan 24, 2008)

Is

http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme gear/flashlights main/defender_infinity.htm

The only place to get a Nitecore Defender? I really want one! Does any other please have them in stock?


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## swxb12 (Jan 24, 2008)

You can check their website or first post in their marketplace thread for authorized dealer listing: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=170991

Obtaining it through a dealer outside of the US is possible, but I'm sure it might cost more than 80 USD all said and done. Keep your eye out on the FS/FT forums as well.


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## robo21 (Jan 24, 2008)

e2x2e said:


> Is
> 
> http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme gear/flashlights main/defender_infinity.htm
> 
> The only place to get a Nitecore Defender? I really want one! Does any other please have them in stock?


 
You will love this little jewel of a flashlight! It is really amazing for a AA light. Enjoy. :twothumbs


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## e2x2e (Jan 24, 2008)

Haha yea I check Tadgear like every ten minutes 

100th post
Yay I'm a flashaholic!!


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## Khaytsus (Jan 24, 2008)

Wow, glad I ordered mine when I did! Unless the next batch is better, I guess..... heh.


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## robo21 (Jan 24, 2008)

Khaytsus said:


> Wow, glad I ordered mine when I did! Unless the next batch is better, I guess..... heh.


 
Me too! And I don't much care if the next one is better, if it is, I'll get one of those as well. :thumbsup:


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## Fallingwater (Jan 25, 2008)

Fallingwater said:


> I'm sure it will work


Well, so much for that. I just received my 14500 LiFe AAs, put one in the nitecore and it refuses to run at all.

My guess is it sees the charged LiFes as discharged LiIons due to the lower voltage, and refuses to run to avoid damaging them.

Oh well. Standard LiIon 14500s are ok with me, so that's what I'll keep using.

EdgeTac, here's a hint: next time, don't put a low-battery protection in the light and just tell people to buy protected cells.


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## Khaytsus (Jan 25, 2008)

Are protected 14500's so much longer then normal AA's that the Nitecore is more difficult to use?

I'm still debating between 14500's and just finding some deals on L91's.


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## Fallingwater (Jan 25, 2008)

They are slightly longer, but it's not a problem. Not in my NDI, at least.


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## Fallingwater (Jan 26, 2008)

Gave some more charge to the 14500s and the NDI now turns on, but keeps flashing the low-voltage warning and can't be used normally. Oh well.

_Part II starts here. - Empath_


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