# M3, M6, or?



## tsl (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm thinking about getting a bump in the night light. I already have an A2 which handles most of my needs, but I'm thinking a brighter incan that I can use both inside as well as outside will make a welcome addition.

Being partial to SF, the M3 looks good, and a search here has given positive feedback on the light. I tried out the light at a local store and found it well-balanced and good fitting in the hand. I didn't like the C3.

Looking at lumens and run time however, I could go with a M6. Either the MN20 (250 lumens for 60 minutes) or the MN15 (125 lumens for 2.5 hours) would beat the M3 for the same number of batteries used (2x3 for the M3). Tradeoff is a beefier and more expensive light.

Another option would be either a 6P w/extender and P90 or a 9P.

Staying with SF for now, what would you recommend? I'm talking about bright enough to light up most of a room inside the house (should have good spill) and enough throw outside to clearly illuminate an object 50-75 yards away. It should be noticeably brighter than the A2. Because it would be an occasional light, sticking with primaries is fine.


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## Monocrom (Nov 27, 2007)

Since this will be used in the home, I think you'd be better off getting as many lumens as possible from the light. If the barrel of the M6 is not too thick for your hands, get it. I doubt you'll regret it. (Sadly, it's too thick for me. So I hope to get an M4 instead).

If this was a light that would do double duty as both a carry-light and a Bump-in-the-night light, I'd recommend the 9P or 6P w/ extender. As far as 3-cell models go, and since this won't be a carry-light, the M3 would be a better option. (Why not get the benefit of the shock-isolation bezel in case you might drop the light?)

If an M6 is indeed too thick for you to hold comfortably, go for the M3 instead.


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## Lightguy27 (Nov 27, 2007)

Well, Given all the options I would reccommend the M3. You say that you like the light and that it is well balanced, along with it's optional but *INCLUDED* 225 lumen beam I think that It would be a great bump in the night light. Good luck and Best Regards!

-Evan


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## mdocod (Nov 27, 2007)

anything with a P91 would be good for indoors as it has a very wide flood beam pattern.


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## js (Nov 27, 2007)

tsl,

I would recommend the M6 over the M3, and I've never used an M4. The MN15 in the M6 is *NOTICEABLY* brighter than the A2, and acts almost like a regulated light for an hour or so--no dimming, then only gradual dimming for the next hour after that. If the A2 is 75 lumens, then the MN15 in M6 is 200 in my estimation.

The M6 is an awesome, awesome light. There's definitely something about it. You can't go wrong, and if you decide you don't like it, the M6's always sell decently on B/S/T from what I've seen.


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## leukos (Nov 27, 2007)

As others have said, the M3 with MN10 is only moderately brighter with moderately more throw than the A2. If you plan to use the MN11, the difference is more noticable. You will however get the most pronounced improvement by getting a light with a turbohead. The M6 smokes my A2's in the throw department.


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## Size15's (Nov 27, 2007)

I suggest the M6 over the M3 for what you're wanting to use it for.


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## socom1970 (Nov 27, 2007)

I second Size15s. Get the M6. I love mine very much. It is the go-to light for a bump-in-the-night light for me. Plus, with the option of the MN15 Lamp Assembly, it is still very bright at app. 200 lumens with app. 2.5 hrs runtime. Or the MN20 with 250 lumens for 1hr. Or the MN21 with 500 lumens for 20 min. Also, the tactical momentary tailcap on the M6 is the most responsive of all Surefire tactical momentary tailcaps, IMHO. You will not regret buying the M6.


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## Team Member (Nov 27, 2007)

Both the M6 and M3 are very nice lights but I think that you should take the M3T into consideration. It handles like the M3 and you have a good amount of throw if needed.

Indoors I think that the M6 is a bit overkill. I rather use an M3 inside or just a L1.
Outdoors nothing beats the M6 with MN20 or MN21. MN15 is great for the _walk-your-dog-in-the-park.
_ 
But as I mentioned earlier, take a good look at the M3T. 

Or do as I, buy them all


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## ttran97 (Nov 27, 2007)

I say go for the M6. You're tempted to get an M6, so it'll be hard to resist getting one for long. You'll just end up getting it eventually because in the back of your mind, you'll always be wondering, "Should I...???" 

True, the M6 isn't the most versatile or most practical light...but I very rarely hear about disappointed M6 owners. Like JS said, the MN15 bulb is a welcome addition to the M6 as this allows a bit more flexibility for using your light. If you only intend to use it purely for those "bump in the night" moments, nothing lights up a room like the MN21 bulb! :thumbsup:

And then, of course...once you get one M6, it'll be tempting to get another! hehe.


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## scott.cr (Nov 27, 2007)

I would have to give my vote to the M6. (Question: Is getting MN20 lamp assemblies still problematic?) An M6 with MN21 lamp assembly is incredibly bright and an amazing thrower. This is my go-to light for all instances where I even remotely think I might want a "blaster" of a light. It's light-weight and packs easy!


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## EV_007 (Nov 27, 2007)

You can't go wrong with the M6, however, the M3T CB should be considered as well. 

The size and guilt-free option makes for a very good package. I find that using a weapon in conjunction with the M3T CB works very well for me.

I run mine on 2x17670s with an A19 extender. The beam throws just as far as the M6, but not as wide of a beam.

The M6 cannot be denied either. Get both if you have the inclination.


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## turkdc (Nov 27, 2007)

I personally don't like the thickness of the M6 as my fingers are on the stubby side. I do LOVE my M4! It throws out more than enough light to see whats going on anywhere in my house or yard and is very comfortable in my hand. 

I have used it on several "bump in the night" occasions only to find one of the cats climbing around on the counter top.


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Nov 27, 2007)

socom1970 said:


> I second Size15s. Get the M6. I love mine very much. It is the go-to light for a bump-in-the-night light for me. Plus, with the option of the MN15 Lamp Assembly, it is still very bright at app. 200 lumens with app. 2.5 hrs runtime. Or the MN20 with 250 lumens for 1hr. Or the MN21 with 500 lumens for 20 min. Also, the tactical momentary tailcap on the M6 is the most responsive of all Surefire tactical momentary tailcaps, IMHO. You will not regret buying the M6.



Nice avatar


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## ugrey (Nov 27, 2007)

Get an M6. There is no other primary batteried light like it. It will make all your other lights seem dim. View it as a 10 year investment and then it seems much cheaper. When I travel or spend the night away from home, it is among the 1% of things that I own, that must go with me. Go check prices on Ebay and this boards B/S/T. You will not be sorry.

I just bought a used M3 because I have wanted one for 4 years. I knew exactly what I was getting. I have had a thing for them since I saw the '02 SF catalog. Be warned, the M3 High Output bulb is not any brighter to the eye than a P91. You can get a G3, 9P or a C3 a whole lot cheaper, and you get the same amount of light. The M3 head is huge compared to a P series head. You will want to put your light in your pocket at some point. I would not recomend a M3.

I also just recently got an M4. I live in the city with alot of ambient light and I don't see much difference between it's HO bulb and the M6 HO bulb. I would definately get an M4 over an M3, if M6/hand size is a problem.

You might also look at what I call a 12P (9p+extender+12V Lamp Assembly). They have good throw and a wall of light. Great for indoors and out. They fit well into briefcases and pockets. These cost about $110 to put together and you can always add a SF Turbo Head.


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## Size15's (Nov 27, 2007)

ugrey said:


> You might also look at what I call a 12P (9p+extender+12V Lamp Assembly). They have good throw and a wall of light. Great for indoors and out. They fit well into briefcases and pockets. These cost about $110 to put together and you can always add a SF Turbo Head.


Careful when making up names that they don't get confused with existing products such as the 12PM


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## SunStar (Nov 27, 2007)

M3 and M6 are apples and oranges to me. I wouldn't consider them at all for the same purpose. The M6 IS the "ULTIMATE" bump in the night light whether equipped with the MN15, MN20 or MN21 - they're all good and better than what you will get out of the M3. 

When I need "M3" level of light I find myself always reaching for my 9Z modified with Pyrex anti-roll bezel and LOTC. It is way smaller than the M3 and output from the P90 / P91 will rival that of the MN10 / MN11. If you don't need a combat grip, then I think you would be better served by the 9P if you are considering the M3. A shock isolated bezel can be added to the 9P if needed and it is still smaller than the M3.

The M3 for me was kind of a "lost soul". I'd always reach for the 9Z or C3 and if I needed more, I went for the M4 or M6 leaving the M3 shelved and lonely. It wasn't until I mounted the M3 / Z48 to a carbine that I really appreciated the M3 for what it was. It's a combat light after all and that is where if performs best for me (not to imply that I regularly see combat but referencing use application). It's size, weight and build attributes make sense to me for this type application. And its balance of flood / throw is just perfect for me when mounted to a rifle.

I know that I am probably in the minority here, but for me, when needing a hand-held incandescent... it's either the 9Z (or variant) or the M4 / M6 for serious light applications. I finally "understood" the M3 when I applied it as a weapons mount and very much appreciate the M3 when used accordingly.


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## LED61 (Nov 27, 2007)

One thing is for sure, you will not be sorry with the M6.


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## tsl (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm glad I asked! The majority have spoken "M6," so I will go to a nearby SF store in the next couple days and check one out and see how it fits in my hand.

A couple of you also posted that the 9P or a 6P with extender would really be as bright to the eye as a M3. mdocod said that a P91 would have a nice floody beam indoors. Can I assume that the throw of a 9P would not be as good as a M3? How far could a 9P throw?

From your comments, it looks like M6 > 9P or 6P w/extender > M3.


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## ugrey (Nov 27, 2007)

Al, I wish a 12 PM was still available.


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## SunStar (Nov 27, 2007)

tsl said:


> I'm glad I asked! The majority have spoken "M6," so I will go to a nearby SF store in the next couple days and check one out and see how it fits in my hand.
> 
> A couple of you also posted that the 9P or a 6P with extender would really be as bright to the eye as a M3. mdocod said that a P91 would have a nice floody beam indoors. Can I assume that the throw of a 9P would not be as good as a M3? How far could a 9P throw?
> 
> From your comments, it looks like M6 > 9P or 6P w/extender > M3.



The 9P has slightly more flood; the M3 has slightly more throw. As stated, the P91 is very impressive - great flood, punchy and decent throw. Both are great lights - its just that the performance of the 9P will be almost that of the M3 in a much smaller package.


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## Monocrom (Nov 27, 2007)

SunStar said:


> A shock isolated bezel can be added to the 9P if needed and it is still smaller than the M3.


 
M-series bezels require a special adapter before they'll fit onto a 9P. 

Lighthound.com sells the adapter. Not sure if it's in stock though. 
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2390


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## seery (Nov 27, 2007)

Seems the M6 would be a very nice fit.

With the 3 bulb options, it's a light to be reckoned with.

Enjoy and please keep us posted.


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## Monocrom (Nov 27, 2007)

tsl said:


> I'm glad I asked! The majority have spoken "M6," so I will go to a nearby SF store in the next couple days and check one out and see how it fits in my hand.


 
Excellent idea.

I wish I could comfortably hold an M6. But the M4 I'll be buying soon is no sloutch either.


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## zx7dave (Nov 27, 2007)

M4 is the way to go. You can use a Lumens Factory 550 Lumens bulb for a 33 min runtime on primaries. Had a M6 and sold it...too big of a diameter for my taste.


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## Lightedge (Nov 27, 2007)

I agree. The M4 has a lot of options when you consider using 17670 rechargeables. You have the LumensFactory lamps, the 2 SF 12 volt lamps and many of the 9 volt lamps will work well with rechargeables. I have a "special" M4 using Leef 2x18650 battery tube driving a WA1111 bulb which is pretty remarkable as a bump in the night light.:naughty:


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## SunStar (Nov 27, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> M-series bezels require a special adapter before they'll fit onto a 9P.
> 
> Lighthound.com sells the adapter. Not sure if it's in stock though.
> http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2390



Negative... not required...

The M2 shock isolated bezel is a direct fit to the 6P, 9P, C2, C3, etc. (1.47 in. diameter v. 1.62 in. diameter).


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## BSBG (Nov 27, 2007)

Another vote for the M6 if it is between that and an M3 - the three SF bulbs, plus the Lumensfactory options make it quite versatile with a range of outputs. The M4, running 17670s and an MN15 / MN16 or MN20 is an option if you want a smaller body, although the stock MN60 is a nice lamp assembly too.

My M3 does not get much use, but my M4 and M6 do.


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## Monocrom (Nov 27, 2007)

SunStar said:


> Negative... not required...
> 
> The M2 shock isolated bezel is a direct fit to the 6P, 9P, C2, C3, etc. (1.47 in. diameter v. 1.62 in. diameter).


 
Oh sorry, I thought you were originally refering to an M3 head onto a 9P body.


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## ttran97 (Nov 27, 2007)

Since we're talking about the M6...I have a quick question. 

When did Surefire change the name from "MagnumLight" to "Guardian"? Only one of mine says "MagnumLight". The other one simply says "Millennium Series M6". Any idea as to why the name changes?


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## tsl (Nov 28, 2007)

Given the number of responses for the M4, it looks like I'll have to try that light out too in the hand when I go to the gun store. However, I did read here that the light was bezel heavy and not as well-balanced as either the M6 or M3. Any comments?


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## Brozneo (Nov 28, 2007)

tsl said:


> I'm glad I asked! The majority have spoken "M6," so I will go to a nearby SF store in the next couple days and check one out and see how it fits in my hand.
> 
> A couple of you also posted that the 9P or a 6P with extender would really be as bright to the eye as a M3. mdocod said that a P91 would have a nice floody beam indoors. Can I assume that the throw of a 9P would not be as good as a M3? How far could a 9P throw?
> 
> From your comments, it looks like M6 > 9P or 6P w/extender > M3.


 
Sweet! Good choice! You won't be disappointed if you get the M6 (unless you have teeny tiny hands! )


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## LED61 (Nov 28, 2007)

tsl said:


> Given the number of responses for the M4, it looks like I'll have to try that light out too in the hand when I go to the gun store. However, I did read here that the light was bezel heavy and not as well-balanced as either the M6 or M3. Any comments?


 
Most folks dislike the "Donkey's ****" form factor of the M4. If you end up not liking the light, you might have trouble getting rid of it.

The M6 has much better aesthetics. It is a waaaaaay nicer light, more appealing too.


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## powernoodle (Nov 28, 2007)

Let me be a wise guy and recommend a $20 rechargeable Vector (or similar brand) spotlight from Wal-mart or Target. You won't believe the output. Give it a try, and you may forget about the spendy ones. I keep one in the Powernoodle sleeping chamber, one in the car, one in the kitchen cabinet, . . .


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## SunStar (Nov 28, 2007)

LED61 said:


> Most folks dislike the "Donkey's ****" form factor of the M4. If you end up not liking the light, you might have trouble getting rid of it.
> 
> The M6 has much better aesthetics. It is a waaaaaay nicer light, more appealing too.



Based on the above reference, I'm almost scared to admit it... but I prefer the M4 form factor over the M6. It just fits my hands better. Also, the M4 weighs in around 12 oz. while the M6 exceeds 16 oz. and there is only about an inch difference between the two in length. 

I agree that aesthetically, the M6 wins and its tough to beat the lamp options on primaries ranging from the MN15, MN20 and MN21. There is also a rechargeable option now thanks to LF and AW. However, the M4 is easily and cheaply made rechargeable with "drop-ins" and can run the MN15, MN16 and MN20 in addition to the MN60 and MN61. Plus the M4 is cheaper. Regardless of which one is selected (you can't really lose), the M4 still has its place.


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## Brozneo (Nov 28, 2007)

LED61 said:


> Most folks dislike the "Donkey's ****" form factor of the M4. If you end up not liking the light, you might have trouble getting rid of it.
> 
> The M6 has much better aesthetics. It is a waaaaaay nicer light, more appealing too.


 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I've never liked the form factor of the M4 but I've never quite put it like that! :lolsign:


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## tsl (Nov 30, 2007)

tsl said:


> I'm glad I asked! The majority have spoken "M6," so I will go to a nearby SF store in the next couple days and check one out and see how it fits in my hand.


 
OK, just got back from the gun shop that stocks a full complement of SFs (except for the Beast). I found the barrel of the M6 to be too big  and I don't have small hands (nor large ones). Perhaps I'm just used to the small size of the A2, so the M6 is too big of a leap for me.

I really didn't care for the M4. Nice beam, but I didn't like the balance or grip in my hand.

I still liked the M3. One thing that I hadn't thought of before was how I'd properly orient the light before turning it on so that the oval beam was either vertical or horizontal. With my A2, it's easy. I rotated the lamp until the beam lined up with the clip. So, I always know that if the clip is down, the beam will be vertical. With the M3, I couldn't see any way to know since the body is round. So, I could grab the light, turn it on, and the beam would be oriented in a strange direction. Not the end of the world, but something I wanted to consider.

I went back to the C3. With anything other than a cigar grip, it actually works well. The P90 wasn't oval, so I really didn't need to worry about orienting the bulb, and if I did, I could always use the square sides and clip for orientation.

9P was also nice, but I prefer HA and would spend the extra $ to get it.

So, I'm now leaning towards the C3 with P91. I know that the run time stinks compared to the M6 w/MN15, but I just found the M6 barrel too big. If it'd been the same size as a Mag 2D, it'd be a different story. The Mag 2D barrel is really as large as I comfortably want to grip.

Any feedback? Am I off base here? Any other recommendations?


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## SunStar (Nov 30, 2007)

Not off base... just personal preference... nothing wrong with that.

The C3 is about as tough as a light comes. Again, you can add a shock isolated bezel if needed and length wise, its shorter than the M3. There are also other lamp options with rounder beams if you don't like the SF oval - although it can be useful in practice. I'd also suggest considering a C3 with a KT1 / KT2 turbohead bezel. That way you could run the MN15 for an hour on primaries or close to an hour on (2) 17500 Li ion cells. You would also have the option of the MN16 for 20 minutes on primaries and for those special occasions, add an extender and you have full use of the M4 lamp options. Aside, the C3/KT2 w. an SW02 switch is about the coolest looking light around to my distinguishing eye.


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## blahblahblah (Nov 30, 2007)

My M4 has been bored for 2x 18650s. For extended runtime I use the 2x 18650s, but I prefer a the Leef 1x 18650 tube. The head has been modified w/ LEDs (6 SSC and one Lux), so it runs regulated w/ one or two cells. With the 1x 18650 tube I prefer a SW02 tailcap. With the stock length tube, I prefer the big style of the SW01 tailcap, as it provides more aesthetic "balance".

With regards to the M3... I could have swore that my barrel wasn't totally round. I can't seem to find it now, but... oh well... just a thought.


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## Monocrom (Nov 30, 2007)

tsl said:


> Any feedback? Am I off base here? Any other recommendations?


 
Had the same issue with the M6. D-cell Mags are the thickest I can hold comfortably. I can hold an M6 securely in my fist, but that changes when I move my thumb to hit the tailcap switch. M4 or 10x Dominator are the brightest Surefires I can hold comfortably. I prefer the M4 a bit more than the 10x. With the M4, I can use primaries or rechargeable 17670 cells. 10x is recharegeable only and costs more than an M6. 

You're not off base at all. Surefires are not cheap. Buy the models that work best for _you _and _your _needs. If it happens to be the C3 model, so be it.


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## jumpstat (Dec 1, 2007)

M3 or M6? This is a toughie......
On one side its cheaper to buy, not much lumens and on the other hand much more lumens but not cheap to run.....This was my dilemma. I really like the M6 for its size, turbo head and output/ pattern. Where I live, SF123 can be found but they are not cheap. So this was the deciding factor for not getting the M6. 
So I chose something in between and ended up with a Z46/MN11/Leef/SW02 (approximately $210)....this combination is bright enough for me and it runs with 2x18650 protected cells for around 45mins. This setup can still be upgarded such as a KT4 turbo head or even a c-lit ion body by leef for maximum runtime..... I will be getting an M6 but I may not be using the light like I am using the Z46/MN11/Leef/SW02 for 'guilt free lumens'


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## leukos (Dec 1, 2007)

I agree that I don't care for D sized lights either, too bulky in the hand. But the two flat sides on the M6 somehow make it easier to hold in my hand as compared to my 2D M*g. 

tsl,
I believe that your problem with the orientation of the oval beam from the M3 is superficial. There are two flat sides on the body where the names Surefire, Millenium Series, etc are laser engraved. I have rotated the bulb in my M3 to be lined up with the flat sides for the same reasons you posted. It's a little more effort to line it up than with the A2, but you rarely have to change the bulb. 

In my flashlight progression, the C3 used to be my main light before I got the M3. What always bothered me about the C3 was that it just didn't feel natural in the hand. It was probably the clip, but it seemed to do too much having the square body, grip ring, and clip, it just never seemed to feel right in any type of grip. If you want a light for the P90 or P91, I would recomend the G3, I love that light. But I think your first instinct with the M3 is probably what you really want.


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## tsl (Dec 1, 2007)

SunStar said:


> ... the C3/KT2 w. an SW02 switch is about the coolest looking light around to my distinguishing eye.


 
Do you have a picture of said light?



leukos said:


> I believe that your problem with the orientation of the oval beam from the M3 is superficial. There are two flat sides on the body where the names Surefire, Millenium Series, etc are laser engraved. I have rotated the bulb in my M3 to be lined up with the flat sides for the same reasons you posted. It's a little more effort to line it up than with the A2, but you rarely have to change the bulb.



Leukos, thanks for your words. My problem may very well be superficial. Are you able to grab the M3 and orient it properly without looking at it? With a regular grip (fingers curled around the body)? Cigar grip to me would be tricky because the end of the body by the grip ring is round.


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## tsl (Dec 1, 2007)

Does the Z3 and M3 have the same body dimensions (i.e., thickness and length)?


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## leukos (Dec 2, 2007)

tsl said:


> Are you able to grab the M3 and orient it properly without looking at it? With a regular grip (fingers curled around the body)? Cigar grip to me would be tricky because the end of the body by the grip ring is round.


 
I think the next time you handle an M3 you'll see that it is relatively easy to know where the flat parts on the body are. As far as grabbing the light in SF/Rogers grip, you could have the light oriented the way you like it in something like the V71.

You mentioned a Z3 which could be another good option for you if you can find one (they were discontinued). Perhaps another option you might like is a G2Z with a Lumens Factory EO-9 lamp and 2x RCR123. It would be almost the same lumen output as the P91.


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## kooter (Dec 2, 2007)

Why not get an M3, then get a cell extender from Lighthound, and you have an M4 too :thumbsup:


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## MongoMadness (Dec 2, 2007)

If you investigate bumps in the night with a handgun I would go with the M3. 

If you only investigate with the power of the photon I would go with the M6.


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## Size15's (Dec 2, 2007)

tsl said:


> Does the Z3 and M3 have the same body dimensions (i.e., thickness and length)?


Yes - the body from the TailCap through the CombatGrip (with two spacer rings) to the bezel end is the same dimensionally.


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## Lightraven (Dec 2, 2007)

When it comes to lighting up bad guys, which is what we're talking about, right, I believe in prioritizing brightness and ease of use, from both training and experience. The M6 is significantly brighter than M3 or M4 and is what I use. For people with really small hands who can't reliably operate the M6 switch, an M4 may be a better choice. Though a bit unbalanced, I don't see that as a big problem.

You could look at other bright lights like 10X, Tigerlight or one of those 3 Cree Wolf Eyes lights.

I wouldn't put much thought into other factors. It's easy to get sidetracked. There are so many things that don't matter, when you're holding a weapon and you've got a bad guy in front of you.


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## tsl (Dec 2, 2007)

Some of you have mentioned rechargeable. Would a P91 running off of two 18500s (Wolf Eyes) give me noticeably better performance than a P91 running off of three primaries? Would either the bulb or the cells be worked too hard (my search here says no)?

The whole reason I wasn't thinking "rechargeable" was because I would only use this light occasionally, and I wouldn't want to find that it wouldn't work because the batteries had discharged. If I went with a rechargeable solution, how long a "shelf life" would it have?


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## Aaron1100us (Dec 3, 2007)

Seriously, get which one fits you the best. The M6 isn't any better than the M3. Yes its brighter but the M3 puts out more than enough light even with the MN10 bulb. The M3 is easier to carry and cheaper. I guess what I'm saying is that they are both bright enough so you need to decide on which one fits you the best.


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## leukos (Dec 3, 2007)

I believe Li-ions typically self discharge about 2% a month, which means you might need to recharge them once a year if left unused. They do not store well at freezing temperatures though.


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## LED61 (Dec 3, 2007)

I must politely disagree. Actually storage of Li ions in a freezer and 40% charge is the recommended procedure for long storage life.


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## jumpstat (Dec 3, 2007)

LED61 said:


> I must politely disagree. Actually storage of Li ions in a freezer and 40% charge is the recommended procedure for long storage life.


Yep this is what AW recommend for long term storage...


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## DM51 (Dec 3, 2007)

There has been quite a lot of debate about the best temperatures for storing Li-Ion cells. 

My own view, with which others may disagree, is that there is little to be gained by storing them in a freezer. Refrigeration (~4°C) is better than room temperature, but freezer temperature (‑20°C) will not give much added benefit IMO.

Extra-low temperatures can cause additional problems. Li-Ion protection circuits seem vulnerable to extreme cold, and the condensation that can occur on thawing them out from frozen has been known to cause corrosion and circuit failure.


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## LED61 (Dec 3, 2007)

The thawing process as you point out is something I am always careful with. I choose a very dry and windy day, and store the batteries in an enclosed ziplock. Done in this way one hour thawing time will be sufficient and moisture will be dried out quickly before it can cause damage. As far as the low temperatures causing damage to protection circuits, that is a first for me but you might know better.


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## socom1970 (Dec 3, 2007)

V8TOYTRUCK said:


> Nice avatar



Hey V8!!!

Thanks!! I can't remember where I got it from, but it might have come from you. At any rate, if it did, thanks very much for that!!! I LOVE using it as my avatar. I also have a copy of it colour-photocopied and taped to my locker at work. (People know it's true at work as I have shown off my SF M6, M3, U2, L4, A2, etc.  )

Anyway, back to the thread. I said in my previous post to get the M6, but the M3 is also awesome in its own right. It has a very good combination of throw and flood, yet with a decent-size hotspot, due to it having a medium-sized reflector, smaller than the M6, but larger than the P60/P90-based lights. I like the rubber fingergrip very much. It assists with holding on to the M3, no matter how you hold it. Either one will be good, But my vote still goes to the M6.


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## leukos (Dec 4, 2007)

DM51 said:


> Extra-low temperatures can cause additional problems. Li-Ion protection circuits seem vulnerable to extreme cold, and the condensation that can occur on thawing them out from frozen has been known to cause corrosion and circuit failure.


 
Yes, that is what I was referring to. Several CPFers have reported dead protected cells from leaving them in gloveboxes/trunks during the winter. See this thread: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=158112


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## tsl (Dec 7, 2007)

I'm still mulling this one over. I do like the idea of being able to use rechargeables at some point with a P91 lamp (for that wall of light), so that means a 2 x 18500 configuration because I don't want the size of a four cell light.

From what I gathered through search here, a G3 or 9P can't be bored out. Is that correct? If it's not, then it'd be my least expensive option.

Next up is the C3, and I've read conflicting views on the feasibility of boring it out. Some have done so; others say that the thickness under the grip ring is not enough to safely bore out.

Next up would be a Leef 2 x 18500 body (looks like he's getting ready to do another run) with SF bezel and tailcap. I've read about some issues with tailcaps working properly because Leef anodizes his threads, but I imagine that's not widespread or we'd have heard a whole lot less praise than we have about his offerings.

Last up would be the M3. Not really sure that I would want to bore that baby out given the price of the light.

I've also thought about the LF EO-9 bulb which I could run with 2 x 17500 and keep the G3, 9P, or C3 completely stock. Run time looks like it would be better than the P91 on primaries. What has been turning me away though from this bulb is that it isn't as floody as the P91. Is there really that much of a difference between a EO-9 on 2 x 17500s and a P91 on primaries in real life? Am I just splitting hairs here?


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## Monocrom (Dec 7, 2007)

No offense, but why bore out a 3-cell Surefire when 2x17500 cells will already fit? I doubt the difference in output is going to be significant enough to warrant boring out the barrel of a Surefire.


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## LED61 (Dec 7, 2007)

The discharge rate on the smaller and lower capacity cells with lamps such as the EO-9 or P91 is too great, and will ruin the cells quickly. Two 18500´s is better and two 18650´s is best.


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## BSBG (Dec 7, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> No offense, but why bore out a 3-cell Surefire when 2x17500 cells will already fit? I doubt the difference in output is going to be significant enough to warrant boring out the barrel of a Surefire.



The output will be the same, but the capacity is more - 1100 mah vs. 1500 mah. That translates to one third longer run time, give or take.

I probably wouldn't bother either, but that may be reason enough...


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## Monocrom (Dec 7, 2007)

You both make good points. 

I guess for some, boring out the barrel would be worth it.


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## tsl (Dec 7, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> No offense, but why bore out a 3-cell Surefire when 2x17500 cells will already fit? I doubt the difference in output is going to be significant enough to warrant boring out the barrel of a Surefire.


 
Mdocod's compatibility chart says that the minimum safe rechargeable for the P91 is the 18500. That cell won't fit in a SF, so my thought was that I would have to bore the body out if I wanted to use it.

The LF EO-9 will take 17500s. No boring. And the difference in output may not be that significant to the eye. Not sure about the beam characteristics though as I've heard of the P91 referred to as a wall of light and the EO-9 as being more concentrated and geared more for throw. I'll have to look at the beamshots posted here again. Any comments by those who have both bulbs would also be appreciated.

But you bring up a great point. I appreciate the feedback.


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## tsl (Dec 22, 2007)

Well, I've narrowed it down to either a C3 or a M3. Taking into account the two included bulbs in the M3 versus having to buy a P91 for the C3, it's about a $60 price difference between the two.

So the M3 is more expensive, has a slightly better and whiter beam than the C3 (acording to my search and what Size15 has posted), and has the shock-isolated bezel. The C3 is more pocketable.

My understanding is that both will be comparable in throw outside. Perhaps a slight nod to the M3 because of the deeper and wider reflector, but is it a noticeable difference?

I am wondering how the two compare inside. It seems to me that floodiness would be more advantageous inside, and there I think the nod goes to the P91, but I haven't been able to find any indoor beamshots of the MN11 compared to the P91. Is the P91 in a C3 the better indoor light?

I'm not going to be using this light with a firearm. I do want to use it as a bump in the night light where I want more illumination than what I get from my A2. Indoors, I do want to be able to light up a good chunk of a room. Outdoors, I would like to be able to illuminate something 50-60 yards away. Where should I lean between the two lights?


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## Monocrom (Dec 22, 2007)

Is the pocket clip on the C3 an important aspect for you? If so, I'd say go with the C3. If not, then overall; the M3 is a better choice.


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## tsl (Dec 22, 2007)

Pocket clip isn't that important.

Can the MN11 light up a room like the P91 in this thread (7th pic from the bottom in the first post)? That's a lot of spill coming from the P91. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173535

(Added)
Granted, the P91 is being run off of 2x18650, so that's an intense amount of light, and I wouldn't expect a MN11 on 3 primiaries to do the same.

But what I'm really looking to know is how well the M3 will light up a room compared to the C3.


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## Size15's (Dec 22, 2007)

tsl said:


> But what I'm really looking to know is how well the M3 will light up a room compared to the C3.


I'd take an M3 over a C3 to 'light up a room' without hesitation.
I much prefer the brighter whiter (for longer) lamps of the M3 compared to the C3.


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