# Zebralight plans MKIII's and SC63 release for this year



## A.marquardt

According to email sent from ZL:

"Department: Sales

Subject: New LED's

No plans for any XHP50/70 lights. SC600/H600 Mk3, H603, and SC63 are planned for this year but I don't know the release dates. 

Sincerely,

ZebraLight, Inc.
2908 Story Rd. W
Irving, TX 75038"

Exciting news, the SC600 MKII LII was starting to look a little long in the tooth compared to some of the new lights coming out.


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## Ryp

"this year"


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## desmobob

A.marquardt said:


> According to email sent from ZL:
> 
> "Department: Sales
> 
> Subject: New LED's
> 
> No plans for any XHP50/70 lights. SC600/H600 Mk3, H603, and SC63 are planned for this year but I don't know the release dates.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.
> 2908 Story Rd. W
> Irving, TX 75038"
> 
> Exciting news, the SC600 MKII LII was starting to look a little long in the tooth compared to some of the new lights coming out.




Geesh... I have an H600w MkII en route. I was excited until I now found it will be obsolete this year! ;-)

Take it easy,
Bob


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## Derek Dean

Bob, don't worry to much. I have a ZLSC600w MkI, and it's FAR from obsolete. The really good lights, like the HC600 and SC600 series, will always be getting LED updates, but that doesn't detract one whit from the usefulness of the older models. Enjoy your new light!~


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## SubLGT

A SC63? I have a SC62, and in the SC63 I would like to see less green in the LED output, and I would like to see a higher output at M1, greater than the current 65 lumen.

And I would like to see the SC600 MkIII become more differentiated from the SC62/63.


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## desmobob

Derek Dean said:


> Bob, don't worry to much. I have a ZLSC600w MkI, and it's FAR from obsolete. The really good lights, like the HC600 and SC600 series, will always be getting LED updates, but that doesn't detract one whit from the usefulness of the older models. Enjoy your new light!~



Thanks for the encouragement, Derek. The H600w MkII will be my first Zebralight, and I'm excited to get it.

Take it easy,
Bob


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## markr6

At the ZL pace, it takes a long time to have an obsolete light! The SC63 will make a nice stocking stuffer...for Christmas 2016


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## twistedraven

Can't see how the SC62 will be outdated anytime soon. I don't think there's any other light on the market that combines the tiny size, efficiency and advanced regulation quite like the SC62. 

Maybe they'll update the Cree versions, but I wonder about the Luxeon version.


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## SubLGT

The SC600 MkIII should be powered by a 26650 battery.


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## RIX TUX

I don't know if the sc62 can be made better? smaller? brighter? 
The housing is pretty thin and light already.


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## thedoc007

A.marquardt said:


> Exciting news, the SC600 MKII LII was starting to look a little long in the tooth compared to some of the new lights coming out.



Really? It still offers PID, which very few other lights do, especially given how small it is. It is still up there with pretty much any other single 18650 for max brightness. It still is very efficient, still has an awesome interface, still has more (and customizable) modes than most lights. 

What part of that is "long in the tooth? Seriously, I want to know what your thought process is, maybe I am overlooking something...


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## thedoc007

SubLGT said:


> The SC600 MkIII should be powered by a 26650 battery.



I like the idea, it is about time ZL got into 26650. But I do not think they should do it with the SC600...why not a new model? Seems like that would just lead to confusion.


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## CelticCross74

I doubt a SC600 MkIII will be 26650. If anything it will be either same li-ion 18650 or possibly IMR 18650


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## 18650

CelticCross74 said:


> I doubt a SC600 MkIII will be 26650. If anything it will be either same li-ion 18650 or possibly IMR 18650


 IMR 18650 for MT-G2! :laughing:


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## davehutch

desmobob said:


> Geesh... I have an H600w MkII en route. I was excited until I now found it will be obsolete this year! ;-)
> 
> Take it easy,
> Bob



Same here 
I'll just have to buy the MkIII as well


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## Charles L.

thedoc007 said:


> What part of that is "long in the tooth? Seriously, I want to know what your thought process is, maybe I am overlooking something...



I was thinking the same thing. I look at the 1x18650 lights that have come out more recently, and think the SC600 MkII L2 is still the superior light.


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## markr6

thedoc007 said:


> Really? It still offers PID, which very few other lights do, especially given how small it is. It is still up there with pretty much any other single 18650 for max brightness. It still is very efficient, still has an awesome interface, still has more (and customizable) modes than most lights.
> 
> What part of that is "long in the tooth? Seriously, I want to know what your thought process is, maybe I am overlooking something...



Yeah they really need to have both options:
1. SC600II - larger but better heat sinking for those using it on high mode longer. Plus it throws a little further.
2. SC62 - smaller and more comfortable in the pocket but performance is still up there close to the SC600II

The only true upgrade I can think of is a new emitter, which would only be marginally brighter (on paper). Other than that, maybe some cosmetic changes which half will like and the other half will complain about.


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## twistedraven

Just as long as they don't take away my ribbed for her pleasure design.

I think they could do even more to distinguish the SC63 from the SC600 III, where the 600 is the larger, bulkier and meant for prolonged high output, on other words make it slightly bigger --possibly with the 26650, and a larger head (but not to the point of being as big as a tactical light). Zebralight is still coming out with their own tactical lights supposedly, anyways.


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## KDM

I vote for improved clip design. An area I feel quite a few manufacturers fall short. A more streamline design also makes a light easier to clip.


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## kj2

Planned.. Well their CS said that too about the S6330 MKII that should come at the end of 2014. ATM they still have no idea when or if it will come. Have to see first..


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## thedoc007

kj2 said:


> Planned.. Well their CS said that too about the S6330 MKII that should come at the end of 2014. ATM they still have no idea when or if it will come. Have to see first..



Yeah, I'm not holding my breath. Zebralight is infamous for delays. They are usually worth the wait, though - I am looking forward to seeing what changes/upgrades they will make.


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## Fireclaw18

markr6 said:


> At the ZL pace, it takes a long time to have an obsolete light! The SC63 will make a nice stocking stuffer...for Christmas 2016



... this. Unless Zebralight decides not to make it. Seems like half the stuff they have planned gets shelved as vaporware.

Still, I'd love to see an SC63 that had a knurled body like an SC80. Be a bit easier to grip.


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## markr6

I'd rather see the SC63 as a thrower option to the SC62. A slightly longer body to get a nice throwy beam. Not something I need, but I think it would be a nice option.


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## Joys_R_us

markr6 said:


> Yeah they really need to have both options:
> 1. SC600II - larger but better heat sinking for those using it on high mode longer. Plus it throws a little further.



Exactly my thoughts !!! I was walking nights at the beach at night in Thailand, watching small fishes jump in the light and crabs run away but my fingers were burning ! Better heat sink and a bit more throw !


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## fridgemagnet

Better heatsink? My SC62w makes an excellent hand warmer for long walks in the coldest weather.
I take it with me for just that purpose. Of course, when you don't want that, it's a PITA.


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## markr6

Even with two great lights like this where you're close to "having it all", it shows you that you just can't "have it all". Pick the better heat sinking of the SC600 or smaller size of the SC62. But then think about the SC600...it's still small compared to many other 1x18650 lights. It's almost like it should have ended there. "Better heat sinking" in the SC62 basically gives you the SC600. I don't really see how this can change until some radically new material is invented 100 years from now or a new LED that doesn't put out heat. The SC62 is sort of in a gray area, pushing the limit on output, runtime and size. The H1 mode is better suited for short periods of time. I find the H2 modes to be plenty anyway.

The high temp of the SC62 running is actually showing amazing heat sinking, transferring that heat to every square cm of the body. The PID makes runtime more reasonable. For the heat to go elsewhere you're basically limited to cooling it manually with air/water, or again, more heavy clinky metal on the body.

I'm guessing any updates will be cosmetic or even a tweak in the UI.


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## gunga

I think I had heard they wanted to make all the levels programmable. So, instead of quick press to H1, you can do quick press to L1. I'm unsure that will be in these releases though. Major changes like that may not come for a while...


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## markr6

gunga said:


> I think I had heard they wanted to make all the levels programmable. So, instead of quick press to H1, you can do quick press to L1. I'm unsure that will be in these releases though. Major changes like that may not come for a while...



That would be the ultimate UI (programmable). Or even if it wasn't programmable but they switched it to a quick click to L1, I could probably get used to that too.


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## kj2

Said that a few weeks ago. I would highly like a quick press for L1 and a long press for H1. Prevents you from blinding yourself at night


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## gunga

Yep! Me too!


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## Swede74

kj2 said:


> Said that a few weeks ago. I would highly like a quick press for L1 and a long press for H1. Prevents you from blinding yourself at night



Said that a year ago  http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...t-SC600-MkII&p=4372166&viewfull=1#post4372166


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## kj2

Swede74 said:


> Said that a year ago  http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...t-SC600-MkII&p=4372166&viewfull=1#post4372166




So we agree both, on this part.


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## Swede74

kj2 said:


> So we agree both, on this part.


Absolutely. All we need now is for Zebralight to agree, too!


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## markr6

LOL! Well, of every single ZL owner out there since the beginning, I wonder how the split would be between those two sepcific UI options. 50/50? I know there was a lot of mention just at CPF about getting blinded so maybe a lot of others think the same way.

Personally I like it as is, but could be happy either way.


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## kj2

Swede74 said:


> Absolutely. All we need now is for Zebralight to agree, too!



And to drop the black anodizing..


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## twistedraven

You don't have to blind yourself at night if you just hold the button down and let it cycle through. I find myself using the Zebralight more and more like this, and reserving the single click max brightness for emergency options when I need a lot of light instantly.


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## markr6

twistedraven said:


> You don't have to blind yourself at night if you just hold the button down and let it cycle through. I find myself using the Zebralight more and more like this, and reserving the single click max brightness for emergency options when I need a lot of light instantly.



I personally don't have a problem with it. But I think some people just can't time it right, cycling into medium (too long) or high (to short). At least that's what I got from past comments.


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## KDM

The current UI is great for tactical and direct low use. I use low modes every night and hardly ever have the need for tactical/emergency use. However with the way it is you have the best of both worlds. In a emergency no one wants to press and hold, double triple clicking, one foot off the ground operation. Click bam you're there. If you don't want to blind yourself cover the end of the light until you're familiar enough with the mode timing. Click/hold. With that said being able to program it to your own specific needs would preferred. That's one thing that makes Henry's lights so great.


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## amanichen

A.marquardt said:


> According to email sent from ZL:
> 
> "Department: Sales
> 
> Subject: New LED's
> 
> No plans for any XHP50/70 lights. SC600/H600 Mk3, H603, and SC63 are planned for this year but I don't know the release dates.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.
> 2908 Story Rd. W
> Irving, TX 75038"
> 
> [/COLOR]



I am satisfied with every Zebra light I have purchased but they really need to learn how to properly announce products. Announce when the final version is actually released for production instead of relying on the vaporware spreadsheet. Don't use rumor and innuendo in emails. Put together a consistent marketing message. Hire a marketing intern or use facebook if they are concerned about the cost of a degreed marketing person in a small company.


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## psychbeat

Can't imagine upgrading much about my MKII h600w ...
Besides higher binned XML2s I'm not sure there's much they could do to increase output besides adding mass. 

I have tons of lights but my h600w probably gets the most use and has been bulletproof so far (knock on wood)


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## mega_lumens

My H600F MKII is so bright that I'm embarrassed to stand out of the pack already. I'll sound like a broken record but maybe my dreams will come true in my lifetime if Zebra moves into a new category of designed lights all together like DUAL heads flood/throw, or better and more useful for outdoors a white light/color light combo type of format.


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## KDM

Agreed psychbeat, I have a couple of H600FW mkl & ll versions and they are hard to beat. Many hours of use on both of them.


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## StorminMatt

There are actually four lights I think Zebralight should build:

1. 26650 XM-L2 light - All the goodness of the SC62, but with more runtime on higher levels.
2. 2AA light - SO many manufacturers just can't get this one right. Maybe Zebralight can.
3. 4AA light - I would SO much like a 4AA light that isn't throw-oriented, and stuck with a mandatory cool white emitter.
4. MT-G2 light - You just KNOW they could do this better than anyone else!


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## desmobob

Derek Dean said:


> Bob, don't worry to much. I have a ZLSC600w MkI, and it's FAR from obsolete. The really good lights, like the HC600 and SC600 series, will always be getting LED updates, but that doesn't detract one whit from the usefulness of the older models. Enjoy your new light!~



Thanks. It arrived today, and I already love it! 





KDM said:


> The current UI is great for tactical and direct low use. I use low modes every night and hardly ever have the need for tactical/emergency use. However with the way it is you have the best of both worlds. In a emergency no one wants to press and hold, double triple clicking, one foot off the ground operation. Click bam you're there. If you don't want to blind yourself cover the end of the light until you're familiar enough with the mode timing. Click/hold. With that said being able to program it to your own specific needs would preferred. That's one thing that makes Henry's lights so great.



I received my first ZL today (H600w Mk II NW) and found it easy to turn it on in low (or medium) consistently by just holding the button. It's so quick, I would almost hesitate to describe the process as "press and _hold._"

I was a bit leery of how long it would take me to learn the UI, but I had my modes all programmed in no time and find the UI extremely handy.

My one hope for the MkIII version of the H600w? AN INCLUDED POCKET CLIP. 

Take it easy,
Bob


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## kj2

StorminMatt said:


> There are actually four lights I think Zebralight should build:
> 
> 1. 26650 XM-L2 light - All the goodness of the SC62, but with more runtime on higher levels.
> 2. 2AA light - SO many manufacturers just can't get this one right. Maybe Zebralight can.
> 3. 4AA light - I would SO much like a 4AA light that isn't throw-oriented, and stuck with a mandatory cool white emitter.
> 4. MT-G2 light - You just KNOW they could do this better than anyone else!



+1


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## henry1960

markr6 said:


> I personally don't have a problem with it. But I think some people just can't time it right, cycling into medium (too long) or high (to short). At least that's what I got from past comments.




I Do Not Have A Problem With It Either And Personally I like It This Way For Which I Use My High And Low Most Often....Medium Will Be Used On Long Uses Of The Light...


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## thedoc007

kj2 said:


> And to drop the black anodizing..



I have a SC600 Mk II L2, that was purchased after the switch. It is a dark green, but definitely not even close to the typical black anodizing of most lights.

Unless they switched again, of course...can you take a pic or two, if you really do have a black one?


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## kj2

thedoc007 said:


> I have a SC600 Mk II L2, that was purchased after the switch. It is a dark green, but definitely not even close to the typical black anodizing of most lights.
> 
> Unless they switched again, of course...can you take a pic or two, if you really do have a black one?



ZL doesn't have lights with black anodizing.. yet. They're planning on doing that. That idea/plan they should drop.


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## carl

So no updated triple XP-L S6330 in our 1-year future?


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## newbie66

kj2 said:


> ZL doesn't have lights with black anodizing.. yet. They're planning on doing that. That idea/plan they should drop.



Agreed. Not being black is part of what makes a Zebralight unique.


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## hatman

No black and even better heat-sinking -- my SC62w already is one of my two or three favorite lights.


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## Fireclaw18

How about a 1x 26650 light with a single XHP70. Zebralight would need to make a nice boost driver to go with it so it could run on a single cell, but I have confidence they could do it.


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## Thacker

StorminMatt said:


> There are actually four lights I think Zebralight should build:
> 
> 1. 26650 XM-L2 light - All the goodness of the SC62, but with more runtime on higher levels.
> 2. 2AA light - SO many manufacturers just can't get this one right. Maybe Zebralight can.
> 3. 4AA light - I would SO much like a 4AA light that isn't throw-oriented, and stuck with a mandatory cool white emitter.
> 4. MT-G2 light - You just KNOW they could do this better than anyone else!



I think 1 is probable and 4 (I agree with you) is possible. There's not much more to do with a single cell 18650 that's practical (in the short term) other than led tech. In the mean time it seems we'll get RGB emitters and rechargeable versions of every light in the chinese catalogs. I doubt we'll see 2 or 3 unless zebralight changes course and tries to be like almost every other manufacturer. Too many lights, too many gimmicks, and so much waste trying to be everything to everybody in every market. It doesn't fit their current design philosophy. They can't just make a longer battery tube like other companies. The costs to enter that market would be substantial and it's already saturated with multiple AA lights. It's a much different market than they currently target too. There's not a lot of money to be made there... at least not the way zebralight has done business to this point.


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## jjp888

will there be an sc53.I would love to see how can they make it more perfect.


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## shrike2222

My wishes are ZL 6330 with XP-L, Nichia Hi Cri LEDs with any other lights.
I don't understand why ZL does not adopt Nichia219. It is better than Luxeon Hi Cri in my thought.


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## Bad_JuJu

It'll be interesting to see where they go from here.


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## twistedraven

Nichia and Luxeon trade blows to me. Nichia can't be beat as far as a lack of green tint and consistency from hotspot to spill is concerned, but the Luxeon 5000k looks more like natural sunlight-- Nichia looks like an incandescent in comparison.

Zebralight having options for 3x Nichia and 3x Luxeon among many other things would be ideal.


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## markr6

I make sure to bug them about making a Nichia at least once a year  They won't budge!


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## Fireclaw18

markr6 said:


> I make sure to bug them about making a Nichia at least once a year  They won't budge!



I wonder if the new low-voltage high-CRI Osram Oslon Square would be a better choice. 

Like the Nichia 219B it fits on an XPG footprint and has 92 CRI. At 4000K it's a bit warmer than the Nichia.

What makes the Oslon Square superior is that it substantially outperforms the Nichia 219B, especially at higher currents. Lumen output is almost as good as the XPG2 while the forward voltage is substantially lower so it should run longer on low batteries.


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## markr6

Fireclaw18 said:


> I wonder if the new low-voltage high-CRI Osram Oslon Square would be a better choice.
> 
> Like the Nichia 219B it fits on an XPG footprint and has 92 CRI. At 4000K it's a bit warmer than the Nichia.
> 
> What makes the Oslon Square superior is that it substantially outperforms the Nichia 219B, especially at higher currents. Lumen output is almost as good as the XPG2 while the forward voltage is substantially lower so it should run longer on low batteries.



Never heard of that, but sounds like a winner! 4000K is getting a bit warm for me, but probably still a nice tint I would like to have in a ZL.


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## 18650

Thacker said:


> I think 1 is probable and 4 (I agree with you) is possible. There's not much more to do with a single cell 18650 that's practical (in the short term) other than led tech. In the mean time it seems we'll get RGB emitters and rechargeable versions of every light in the chinese catalogs. I doubt we'll see 2 or 3 unless zebralight changes course and tries to be like almost every other manufacturer. Too many lights, too many gimmicks, and so much waste trying to be everything to everybody in every market. It doesn't fit their current design philosophy. They can't just make a longer battery tube like other companies. The costs to enter that market would be substantial and it's already saturated with multiple AA lights. It's a much different market than they currently target too. There's not a lot of money to be made there... at least not the way zebralight has done business to this point.



I take it you've never heard of the Q50? Now if that piece of fiction had come out when they first tossed the idea out there, it would have made them the leaders in that segment. Instead it's now viewed as a cynical attempt to get people to not buy competitor's products.


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## markr6

Thacker said:


> I think 1 is probable and 4 (I agree with you) is possible. There's not much more to do with a single cell 18650 that's practical (in the short term) other than led tech. In the mean time it seems we'll get RGB emitters and rechargeable versions of every light in the chinese catalogs. I doubt we'll see 2 or 3 unless zebralight changes course and tries to be like almost every other manufacturer. Too many lights, too many gimmicks, and so much waste trying to be everything to everybody in every market. It doesn't fit their current design philosophy. They can't just make a longer battery tube like other companies. The costs to enter that market would be substantial and it's already saturated with multiple AA lights. It's a much different market than they currently target too. There's not a lot of money to be made there... at least not the way zebralight has done business to this point.



That makes sense. All the gimmicky stuff really has me bored. I would like things to become more simplified rather than more features and things to go wrong (touchscreens, multiple switches, etc) I'm past the point of buying anything else and just roam CPF and hope something really new and exciting will come out. I like threads like this to dream up ideas and hope they eventually come to life.

I feel like if ZL gets into the "tactical" lights it will be more than they can handle. I'd like to see more focus on finally getting that Q50, a nice simple thrower (18650 or AA), and bring back the 6330 or some variation of it.

One thing about the Q50...I wouldn't be surprised if ZL saw the Nitecore EA4 selling for $50 and said "forget it".


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## KDM

I would love a single AAA , ultra compact, high efficiency driver, same UI, and reversible clip while we're all dreaming.


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## beastman

I want an SC600 mkII thrower


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## scout24

I'll still suggest a "blacked out" version. Brought this up a couple hears ago. Lose the shiny bezel ring and switch surround, give me a titanium stonewashed clip, or a black one. NOT PAINTED! Dark screws, too. Chrome has it's place, it looks cheesy on otherwise fine products. I think ZL has their UI down pat, and their build quality has been good for a long time now. Even do a pre-order, or a special run with limited numbers going to dealers. Send them out as a feeler. Trial balloon. I bet they would sell like hotcakes.


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## KDM

scout24 said:


> I'll still suggest a "blacked out" version. Brought this up a couple hears ago. Lose the shiny bezel ring and switch surround, give me a titanium stonewashed clip, or a black one. NOT PAINTED! Dark screws, too. Chrome has it's place, it looks cheesy on otherwise fine products. I think ZL has their UI down pat, and their build quality has been good for a long time now. Even do a pre-order, or a special run with limited numbers going to dealers. Send them out as a feeler. Trial balloon. I bet they would sell like hotcakes.



+1


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## marinemaster

I think the SC32W is as good as Nichia 219B to me. Nichia is a different company, Cree sells to everyone it seems, I don't know how Nichia operates. May be difficult to get 219B just guessing.


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## fatsteve0

i'll buy it!!:huh:


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## Romanko

And I would like to see 2*18650 side by side. Maybe with 2 leds or with one. We are posting, but are there zebralight's representative from Zebralight Do they read this thread?


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## markr6

marinemaster said:


> I think the SC32W is as good as Nichia 219B to me. Nichia is a different company, Cree sells to everyone it seems, I don't know how Nichia operates. May be difficult to get 219B just guessing.



I was told they have been looking into "n" models for years, way before the c and d Luxeon models. But have not been able to make them due to "supply/channel related reasons". They said it may change "later this year", but that was in early 2013.

It seems strange since I've seen 219 emitters in lights from some small or not-so-popular companies. I'm still holding out hope for a Nichia light!



Romanko said:


> We are posting, but are there zebralight's representative from Zebralight Do they read this thread?



I wish they were active on the forum. Last activity was December 2012! I also with they kept us up to date on their Facebook page.


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## Mr. Tone

markr6 said:


> I was told they have been looking into "n" models for years, way before the c and d Luxeon models. But have not been able to make them due to "supply/channel related reasons". They said it may change "later this year", but that was in early 2013.
> 
> It seems strange since I've seen 219 emitters in lights from some small or not-so-popular companies. I'm still holding out hope for a Nichia light!
> 
> 
> 
> I wish they were active on the forum. Last activity was December 2012! I also with they kept us up to date on their Facebook page.



I totally agree about wanting a hi CRI Nichia Zebralight. Also, it is strange that they don't have an active CPF presence since it seems like their products would appeal much more to flashaholics than typical mass market flashlight purchasers. I would never have even known about Zebralight if I would not have heard about them on CPF years ago.


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## fatsteve0

Romanko said:


> And I would like to see 2*18650 side by side. Maybe with 2 leds or with one. We are posting, but are there zebralight's representative from Zebralight Do they read this thread?




I missed out on the s6330. Always wanted one!


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## kj2

fatsteve0 said:


> I missed out on the s6330. Always wanted one!



Hopefully they'll release the MKII this year.


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## davidt1

KDM said:


> I would love a single AAA , ultra compact, high efficiency driver, same UI, and reversible clip while we're all dreaming.



+1

A ZL aaa light would be very special indeed.


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## FlashlightR

I like the idea of a new H600 with TIR optics and a more robust (shock and drop proof) body like e.g. the Armytek Wizard.


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## moozooh

IIRC, TIR was problematic because of patent rights (as I understand it, they'd have to substantially increase the prices to compensate, which I doubt would make economic sense given the shaky QC and the already niche appeal). There's no doubt that TIR lenses would work perfectly for ZL lights, especially considering how they allow a more compact housing which is a priority for ZL.

While we're aboard the wishful thinking train, I would still love an XP-L-based SC83w which would take a CR123A/eneloop/17500, *or* a tail-clicky 2xAA throw-oriented XP-L-based alternative to SC63w. Not asking for much, am I?


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## StorminMatt

davidt1 said:


> +1
> 
> A ZL aaa light would be very special indeed.



+2

The Thrunite Ti Limited Christmas Edition has shown me what a AAA light can be capable of if a company decides to move away from low efficiency, small die emitters (like the XP-E and XP-G). This light is FAR more useful and capable than other 1xAAA lights I have (ie LOTS of bright, floody light). Yet, its main downfall is its poor user interface. If Zebralight could combine the versatility of their user interface with the power and efficiency of the XP-L emitter in a 1xAAA light, they would have a DEFINITE winner.


----------



## Trevilux

Zebralight 1XAAA?, I will love it!!!, sure!!!


----------



## Overclocker

it's quite difficult to improve upon these latest zebralights. but i'll try anyway:

1) STROBE mode needs PID. try tailstanding while in strobe. will quickly heat up to 60 degrees C. i stopped here. will probably go higher. whereas H1 would auto-regulate to around ~50 degrees C and won't rise further than that

2) (can't think of anything else, probably later...)


----------



## markr6

One more thing. Since the anodizing varies so much, I wish the would just switch to black. The very dark olive/greyish color is cool when you get it, but more than half the time you get a olive-goldish color, almost transparent since the anodizing is so weak.

It's harder to replicate the exact same color each time. Black is easier and usually more consistent; definitely harder to notice when there is a difference.

I used to work for an aluminum parts manufacturer. When we sent something to get anodized blue, for example, you would get either aquamarine, royal blue or something even closer to a sapphire.

Just nit-picking on aesthetics. As long as the tint is good, I can deal with it.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

markr6 said:


> Just nit-picking on aesthetics. As long as the tint is good, I can deal with it.



And when you say tint, you are talking about the tint of the emitter. So much hoping ZL will continue to use non-green tints in the future


----------



## markr6

KITROBASKIN said:


> And when you say tint, you are talking about the tint of the emitter. So much hoping ZL will continue to use non-green tints in the future



Yes that's what I meant. Mine are all pretty good, but my SC600wII is so good it makes me wish they were all like that. Almost a cool tint but not quite. Perfectly white.


----------



## StorminMatt

Overclocker said:


> it's quite difficult to improve upon these latest zebralights. but i'll try anyway:
> 
> 1) STROBE mode needs PID. try tailstanding while in strobe. will quickly heat up to 60 degrees C. i stopped here. will probably go higher. whereas H1 would auto-regulate to around ~50 degrees C and won't rise further than that
> 
> 2) (can't think of anything else, probably later...)



I would like to see improvements in the 500 lumen mode on the SC52. First, lose the stupid one minute timer stepdown and give it PID like all the other Zebralights. And secondly, put it in a different sublevel like the highest mode is in with all other Zebralights. Simply put, it wastes ALOT of battery life when you HAVE to do one minute of 500 lumens before going to 280 lumens. Of course, going PID would more or less REQUIRE that the 500 lumen mode be in a different sublevel.


----------



## davidt1

StorminMatt said:


> +2
> 
> The Thrunite Ti Limited Christmas Edition has shown me what a AAA light can be capable of if a company decides to move away from low efficiency, small die emitters (like the XP-E and XP-G). This light is FAR more useful and capable than other 1xAAA lights I have (ie LOTS of bright, floody light). Yet, its main downfall is its poor user interface. If Zebralight could combine the versatility of their user interface with the power and efficiency of the XP-L emitter in a 1xAAA light, they would have a DEFINITE winner.



The big hot spot of the XP-L emitter is perfect for tasks at arm length. With the XP-L there will be no need for TIR or frosted lens and such, I imagine. I almost bought the Thrunite AAA but didn't because the mode spacings wouldn't work for me -- medium is too low and high is too high. My $16 DQG slim AAA is my most used light now because of the following:

1. Big hot spot, thanks to the TIR lens. No need for frosted lens or DC-fix with this light.

2. It is the smallest clicky AAA light that I am aware of. In fact it is smaller than most twisty AAA lights. 

The small size is important simply because it's just disappears around my neck or at the bottom of my shirt pocket. When used as headlamp, the clicky switch requires only one hand to change mode whereas a twisty light would require two hands.

Anyway, as much as I like the DQG slim AAA, it's not perfect. I am constantly looking for something better. Only if Zebralight would enter this market.


----------



## Cataract

Ooo! Zebra MKIII! I've been holding back for a while to buy a couple of new Z's and this would make it 100% worth it. Hopefully they'll be out by Christmas (no, I'm not holding my breath either...)


----------



## markr6

SC5!!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389315-New-Zebralight-SC5/page2


----------



## 18650

Realistically, what kind of upgrades could they make to justify a new model? Just offering XP-L instead of the XM-L2 doesn't do it for me.


----------



## Cataract

18650 said:


> Realistically, what kind of upgrades could they make to justify a new model? Just offering XP-L instead of the XM-L2 doesn't do it for me.



More lumens, better runtime per lumen for starters.


----------



## psychbeat

Not seeing the XPL as an upgrade over XML2 - it's the same thing basically with a different footprint.


----------



## 18650

psychbeat said:


> Not seeing the XPL as an upgrade over XML2 - it's the same thing basically with a different footprint.


 Exactly. It would be a sidegrade. The emitters in the current ones are already heavily driven so I don't see how to get more lumens short of cramming a bigger one in there. Certainly a few more lumens or slightly more efficiency wouldn't justify a model number bump.


----------



## Lumencrazy

There are two areas where Zebralight could improve their lights. I have both the ScC62 and the SC600 MK11 (superb lights). Unfortunately, both are quite fragile in the area around the front bezel. This part of the light cannot withstand a hard impact (it happens). A little more aluminum surrounding the press-in bezel and rounding out the square outside corner slightly would make a huge difference. The other area is the Led. The Cree XM-L2, optically speaking, is out of date especially when used in such a small reflector. Cree’s new XP-L would be a much better choice. Companies, like ARMYTEK, that have truly skilled optical engineers on staff have already switched to the industries highest *O*ptical *Co*ntrol *F*actor XP-L and XB-H formats for their upper-end lights. Lumens and OTF Lumens sell flashlights. Luminous Intensity (the measurement of directed light and what lighting engineers really measure) is what ultimately determines what we see.


----------



## thedoc007

Lumencrazy said:


> Cree’s new XP-L would be a much better choice.



XP-L has a smaller footprint than XM-L2, so it is better suited to triples and quads. But that is the biggest difference...in the real world, you would not even be able to tell the difference between the brightness of XP-L and XM-L2. According to Vinh, if you drive it hard, the relatively new XM-L2 U3 bin is actually brighter than XP-L...the larger footprint allows for better heatsinking, and that makes a huge difference to output (more difference than the theoretical <10% increase with XP-L). It is certainly not a major upgrade from XM-L2, it is a small incremental improvement at best.


----------



## TEEJ

Yeah, the part that emits the light is the same size, the L just uses a smaller die for it so more can fit in the same space. As far as throw, lumens, etc, they would be identical...except when driven hard enough for heat to be a limiting factor, and then the XML2's larger dissipation area actually makes it win.


----------



## Lumencrazy

The XP-L is not a better replacement for the XM-L2 based on output alone. Cree clearly describes it as a higher perfoming version of the XP-G series of LED’s ("...[FONT=Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]delivers an immediate performance increase of 50% or more as a drop-in upgrade for lighting designs based on Cree’s market-leading XLamp XP-G LEDs...”).[/FONT] However where it has an advantage over the XM-L2 is in regards to the better optical control it provides (the very reason for its development). 
OTF Lumens and Luminous intensity are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination, nor by any engineering definition/calculation. Lets not forget to include that part of the flashlight that sits between the LED and the outside world, called the reflector or optic (TIR). The ability of an optic or reflector to control the light emitting from an led is dependant upon many factors, one of which is the size of the source of light (the smaller the better and ideally infinitely small ). Although the size of the XM-L2 and XP-L semiconductor die may be the same, the dome covering the XM-L2 is significantly larger than that of the XP-L. The collimator (reflector/Optic) only sees the light emitting from the outside surface of the dome and not from the led itself (no wonder removing the dome works). So the XP-L light source is significantly smaller since the surface of its dome is smaller (24 vs 32, (the circumference of the XM-L2 dome is approximately!!! 33% larger)). All while giving out almost the same led brightness and possibly more directed light where intended. We have all grown accustomed to that big ugly yellow donut (corona) surrounding the hot spot and have assumed it to be normal. Lets see what happens to it, along with the Luminous Intensity of the light as the optical properties/dimensions of the led’s improve, the LEDs get smaller and the flashlight manufacturers spend a little more serious effort on optics . Any predictions? (Zebralight SC62 rocks, but please give me one with XP-L). All in good spirit!


----------



## chuckhov

Lumencrazy - Excellent Post!

Thank you,
-Chuck


----------



## StorminMatt

Then again, it must be remembered that not everybody wants a throwy light with a tight hotspot. Throw may impress people. And it may have its place for such uses as law enforcement or search and rescue. But for probably the vast majority of folks who want a flashlight to hike at night, light up a campsite, or provide light to change a tire, flood rules. And when it comes to Zebralight, most folks who buy these lights actually LIKE the floodiness of a Zebralight. So while trying to have 'better optical control' may sound nice and make it sound like you have a better light, it might really just mean that the light is precisely designed to be less suitable to most people for most purposes.


----------



## psychbeat

Id be curious to see how much of a difference would be noticed by an XPL vs XML2 in the same small reflector...
Seems XPG2 would be a better choice for throw...

I agree with Stormin. 
My H600w MKII throws fairly well on max for such a small reflector. 

Easy to carry a dedicated thrower with a dedomed emitter if u need serious range.


----------



## Lumencrazy

We are not referring to throwy lights and tight hotspots here. That should be a reflector/optic design parameter. Unfortunately the flashlight manufacturers have been so focussed on Lumens that most have completely ignored the state-of the-art knowledge currently being practiced in the professional lighting industry (It is much easier to stamp on the box “NOW 40000 Lumens” and sell more lights than to make a better light) Currently this entire industry is in a Lumen Frenzy: more is better period (even if it is not real). Look at any website. All they talk about is the lumen output not light delivered. Look around what is being done with stage lighting, and, for example, lighting in art galleries using LED’s. There isn’t a flashlight on the planet that can deliver such a uniform distribution from a single point source. You want a uniform beam with an specified angle of illumination, feathering out to 20% of its intensity at 45deg. (or any specified angle) with no hot spot, and especially without that horrible corona we have all learned to accept? It can be done, now that we have high density optically corrected LEDs The issue here is that with a smaller light source you can have more of what you want (pick up any technical book on optic/reflector design). The XP-G2 has a view angle of 115 degrees. The XP-L is 125deg. exactly the same as the XML-2, except that it is smaller. You do not want to have your beam determined solely by the LED but rather by your choice of optic over which you would have more design control. Interestingly enough, when trying to make a uniform flood beam, the XM-L2 leaves a hotter center relative to the edges than, for example, something on a smaller 3mm platform The Zebralight is *by far my most favorite light* for exactly the reasons you mentioned.I hate hot spots and I cannot understand how people tolerate walking a trail looking at a concentrated beam surrounded by a spill zone (we won’t even begin a discussion on color quality) . But for me even the SC62, as good as it is, can be even better. All the info. and technology is currently out there. Cheers


----------



## Lumencrazy

The led and the corresponding optic/reflector is a system. That is how you get the best result. The distances and angles of the light travelling from the surface of the led dome to the surface of the refector are different for the XP-L and XML-2, so you cannot use the same calculations if you want a proper design. The engineering reality is that the smaller the point source of light the more control one has over reflector design whatever you want it to be. As the led gets smaller the source the light leaving the dome gets closer and closer to the same point of origin making the design of the reflector and or optic better. Ever wondered what the spill zone is and where that light comes from?


----------



## davidt1

For up-close tasks which I use my lights about 90% of the time, I need/want floody lights with a big hot spot, not the typical small hot spot with a big spill that many of today's light have. The beam shots of XP-L I have seen look very promising. For throw, I have the Olight M2x, which I don't use very often. I am really hoping to see more small lights -- single AAA and AA -- with NW XP-L.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Lumencrazy said:


> Currently this entire industry is in a Lumen Frenzy...



Funny hearing that sweeping comment from a member who calls himself 'Lumencrazy'

Seems like ZebraLight values high performance in a compact package. Not sure if an optic is the way to go to get either. An optic would add thickness or length and every surface of every lens prevents light from going 'out the front'.

One Stop Throw Shop has a great floody light, using a kind of optic. And no doubt some manufacturers are exploring the use of optics, probably for headlamps. Certainly interesting possibilities. But it looks like the job is getting done for the most part, without the added complexity and expense of optics.


----------



## StorminMatt

I think the bottom line as far as Zebralight is that they are selling. They are making lights that ALOT of people like and want to buy. Zebralight clearly has a good thing going here. Would they REALLY want to put a bunch of money into R&D, just to make a light that people don't like (and don't want to buy) as much as before?


----------



## snowlover91

At more info about the upcoming potential for the SC63 and MKIII later this year? Any specs leaked or updates?


----------



## SubLGT

Lumencrazy said:


> ……………….We have all grown accustomed to that big ugly yellow donut (corona) surrounding the hot spot and have assumed it to be normal. Lets see what happens to it, along with the Luminous Intensity of the light as the optical properties/dimensions of the led’s improve, the LEDs get smaller and the flashlight manufacturers spend a little more serious effort on optics ……………...



I hate that yellowish green corona. Both my ZLs have excessive amounts of it. They also have violet spill, but I find that color aberration easier to live with. I look forward to the day when LED flashlights put out _only_ white light.


----------



## Gaffle

I wish Zebralight would change a design with the switch. I want the switch on the side of the light, not on top of the light. I do not own a Zebra but the switch layout is what pushed me further toward my Armytek.


----------



## thedoc007

Gaffle said:


> I wish Zebralight would change a design with the switch. I want the switch on the side of the light, not on top of the light. I do not own a Zebra but the switch layout is what pushed me further toward my Armytek.



Zebralight headlamps have a switch on the top, but most of their lights use side switches. SC600, SC62, SC52, and SC5 all have side switches.

I am a fan of Armytek too, so nothing wrong with buying that instead. But you should at least try a ZL...they are pretty special. The interface is very versatile, and consistent across their whole range of lights. So if you try one, you'll have a better idea of whether or not you'll like it. I would bet that if you bought one, you'd end up buying more.


----------



## Gaffle

I was just a ******* posting about a Zebra headlamp change in the flashlight thread, which has the side switch....whoops.


----------



## markr6

Thinking about it some more, it seems like there really isn't anywhere to go with the current lineup. Short of people's own wishlists to completely re-design ZL bodies or UI, any improvements seem to be limited by the LEDs and heat generated. For example, the SC62 would have to basically double in weight and size to handle more output/heat effectively unless some really new LED comes along.

So I guess it's time for them to continue with SC6330 Mk II and SC80 MkII/SC82. I think a slimmer 2x18650 would be nice too.


----------



## A.marquardt

thedoc007 said:


> Really? It still offers PID, which very few other lights do, especially given how small it is. It is still up there with pretty much any other single 18650 for max brightness. It still is very efficient, still has an awesome interface, still has more (and customizable) modes than most lights.
> 
> What part of that is "long in the tooth? Seriously, I want to know what your thought process is, maybe I am overlooking something...



Google Nitecore MH20 and you'll see what kind of competition is coming down the pipeline.


----------



## markr6

A.marquardt said:


> Google Nitecore MH20 and you'll see what kind of competition is coming down the pipeline.



I'm liking that MH20, but I need a neutral white. Could by my first vinh model in the future!

It looks like a great contender to the Zebralight SC600.


----------



## thedoc007

A.marquardt said:


> Google Nitecore MH20 and you'll see what kind of competition is coming down the pipeline.



Right, it looks like it could be a good competitor...but that doesn't make the SC600 "long in the tooth". It is still right up there with the best...even though it has been out for a while. I'm interested to see if it is really a good thermal management system. The TM06 claimed to have dynamic heat management too...but it does step down, and it doesn't always maintain peak brightness (while managing heat) like the SC600 does. We shall see...the MH20 does look really cool, I just want to see some reviews first.


----------



## markr6

thedoc007 said:


> Right, it looks like it could be a good competitor...but that doesn't make the SC600 "long in the tooth".



Certainly not. The SC600 is a classic and will be very hard to beat. The flood/throw balance is perfect IMO.


----------



## StorminMatt

thedoc007 said:


> Right, it looks like it could be a good competitor...but that doesn't make the SC600 "long in the tooth". It is still right up there with the best...even though it has been out for a while. I'm interested to see if it is really a good thermal management system. The TM06 claimed to have dynamic heat management too...but it does step down, and it doesn't always maintain peak brightness (while managing heat) like the SC600 does. We shall see...the MH20 does look really cool, I just want to see some reviews first.



After reading up on this light, I don't think it's going to better the SC600. It DOES have USB charging, which can be handy in the wilderness since it means you don't have to take a charger with you. But a big question mark here is charge rate. 500mA is a little on the slow side for an 18650. And with Xtar coming out with their 1A version of the MC1 (the MC1+), a slow built-in USB charger may not be as valuable as you think.

Secondly, they are advertising throw here. This says that the light could be alot more throw-oriented than the SC600. The benefit of this, of course, comes down to personal preference. But I just prefer floody lights, as I find them much more useful for the sorts of things I do.

Heat management is another thing that's unclear. As mentioned above, a nice thing about Zebralight is that it doesn't just step down. It actively maintains the optimum brightness for ambient conditions. It will even step back up if conditions allow. Does this Nitecore? That's uncertain.

Of course, after all is said and done, the BIG thing that does this Nitecore in for me is the lack of an optional neutral white emitter. I just don't like cool white emitters, and that appears to be the only choice with this light. So it's a complete no-go for me. Sorry, Nitecore.


----------



## carl

Maybe I missed something here but what is the SC63 - a typo? Maybe they meant SC62. I assume an upgraded SC62 would be designated as a SC62 MkII ?


----------



## 18650

carl said:


> Maybe I missed something here but what is the SC63 - a typo? Maybe they meant SC62. I assume an upgraded SC62 would be designated as a SC62 MkII ?


 In one of the other sub forums it was mentioned that ZL has a driver circuit that outputs 6V so perhaps there's a MT-G2 coming to this hypothetical SC63. That would definitely make it worthy of a model number increase.


----------



## Bill S.

Wrong post. Please delete.


----------



## twistedraven

MT-G2 in an SC62 style head would be flood/output heaven. The runtimes would probably be less than optimal though.


----------



## StorminMatt

twistedraven said:


> MT-G2 in an SC62 style head would be flood/output heaven. The runtimes would probably be less than optimal though.



Especially if the light is 1x18650. Now if they made it a 1x26650 light, it would be MUCH more useful.


----------



## markr6

I wonder if the SC63 will ditch the ribbed design and follow the new SC5, and all SC600 models.


----------



## scs

markr6 said:


> I wonder if the SC63 will ditch the ribbed design and follow the new SC5, and all SC600 models.



I wonder which is easier and less expensive to machine, the ribs or knurling? I'm liking the ribs myself.


----------



## scs

I feel the ribs, among other characteristics, have come to define the brand.


----------



## markr6

scs said:


> I feel the ribs, among other characteristics, have come to define the brand.



I hated the look at first, but I like it how. In fact, I didn't like the look of Zebralights from the beginning, but they grew on me and I haven't found anything better. Perfect example of function over form here.


----------



## Amelia

kj2 said:


> Said that a few weeks ago. I would highly like a quick press for L1 and a long press for H1. Prevents you from blinding yourself at night



+2
This is my only complaint about ZL's UI.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Others like the quick one-click access to high. This has been discussed on this forum. If a user is in a hurry for maximum, it is the better UI. Each of us will have to train ourselves for any user interface. We are seeing some programmable UI's and maybe ZL will offer something, but I will not be the only person disappointed if it is changed to the quick low-mode access.


----------



## thedoc007

KITROBASKIN said:


> Others like the quick one-click access to high. This has been discussed on this forum. If a user is in a hurry for maximum, it is the better UI. Each of us will have to train ourselves for any user interface. We are seeing some programmable UI's and maybe ZL will offer something, but I will not be the only person disappointed if it is changed to the quick low-mode access.



Count me in that group as well. If I want high, I want it NOW. For low, I don't mind a brief wait. I have been using ZL's interface for a while, and I have no trouble consistently entering low mode with the long press.

Runtime is so good with any decent modern LED light that it doesn't matter TOO much (at least to me) and plenty of other lights have similar brightness, compact form, floody beam, etc. The interface is the single truly unique feature that makes Zebralight so special.


----------



## twistedraven

Yes, I like having instant access to high as well, but I definitely don't like seeing a blinding flash when you try to go to medium. That's why I usually just use the Zebralight in one of two ways: quick click for high, and press and hold to cycle from low to medium. I guess we can't have the best of both worlds.


----------



## newbie66

I too like instant high.


----------



## Valmet62

What is known about the SC63 ? How will it be different from the SC62 ?


----------



## markr6

I still find it impossible to blind myself with this UI. I could be totally plastered after drinking all night and still time it right. Maybe I just have freakishly good timing and should have been a drag racer?

Better to be "blinded" by medium after holding too long than by high or turbo on other lights that either have stupid memory or no way to start on low whatsoever.

But I still understand the want for a "reversed" UI. Add that programmability, ZL!


----------



## markr6

Valmet62 said:


> What is known about the SC63 ? How will it be different from the SC62 ?



No info yet that I'm aware of. Acebeam finally announced details on their H10 headlamp - 2000lm with an MT-G2. Also running on 1x18650 and small form. So, maybe ZL will do something similar? Seems like that 5000K MT-G2 would also make a lot of people happy (both cool and neutral white camps) as well as avoid tint issues. I don't recall complaints about this emitter being green/purple/yellow.

They just told me there are no plans for an MT-G2 light, but I hope they were just lying


----------



## markr6

Don't want to get off topic, but speaking of the UI, I just remembered the Sportac PH10LC2. Why does this so unpopular? Lack of sub-lumen mode? Here's the UI, which seems to be what some are wanting.

Press and hold the on/off switch button from off for MAX output.
Press and release quickly (within 0.3s) to turn on the headlamp at MIN output to preseve your night vision.
Five pre-defined output levels Press and hold the on/off switch to toggle between five well defined brightness output.


----------



## gbelleh

I've been carrying and using Zebralights everyday for the last 3 years, and I like the 1 click to high. I just wish there was a fast way to go directly to high from another level. Going from medium to high requires the light to either get dimmer as it cycles through low-med, or be shut off completely, and clicked on again. I'd like a way to at least get momentary high, like HDS lights.


----------



## Amelia

markr6 said:


> Don't want to get off topic, but speaking of the UI, I just remembered the Sportac PH10LC2. Why does this so unpopular? Lack of sub-lumen mode?




Yep. No moonlight = No sale. At least for me.


----------



## gclyn

Amelia said:


> Yep. No moonlight = No sale. At least for me.



Same here...no moonlight/firefly, no purchase


----------



## markr6

I'm really looking forward to this SC600w Mk III HI. I like my new EagleTac T25C2 HI, but I'm sure there's a good possibility the new Zebralight will replace it.


----------



## newbie66

markr6 said:


> I'm really looking forward to this SC600w Mk III HI. I like my new EagleTac T25C2 HI, but I'm sure there's a good possibility the new Zebralight will replace it.



Indeed. With the awesome interface that Zebralight has.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Valmet62 said:


> What is known about the SC63 ? How will it be different from the SC62 ?



Maybe they're going to use the XPL-HI emitter, to give good throw? Not really something I'd be interested in, but some people want ZL to make some throwers.

I was thinking of getting the SC62w, but perhaps I'll wait to see what they come up with as a replacement.


----------



## turkeylord

gbelleh said:


> I've been carrying and using Zebralights everyday for the last 3 years, and I like the 1 click to high. I just wish there was a fast way to go directly to high from another level. Going from medium to high requires the light to either get dimmer as it cycles through low-med, or be shut off completely, and clicked on again. I'd like a way to at least get momentary high, like HDS lights.


+1

I would prefer to advance to the next mode rather than start over at moonlight, which might as well be "off" after walking with the H600w on medium.

All-in-all it's a fantastic UI though.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

turkeylord said:


> I would prefer to advance to the next mode rather than start over at moonlight, which might as well be "off" after walking with the H600w on medium.
> 
> All-in-all it's a fantastic UI though.



I wish they would allow us to choose any of the brightness levels to fit into each of the 6 modes. For example, I could choose to put a moonlight mode in the H1 or H2 spot, thus making the light turn on to moonlight with a single click. And make the maximum brightness go in the low1 mode, so a long press would activate max. Stuff like that would add a lot of flexibility, and give people a greater way to customize the UI they way they want.

All it would require is a simple change to the programming, where instead of cycling between 2 or 3 choices, it would cycle between all 11 choices. And allow the programming of both the main mode and submode spots, depending on where you started the programming sequence.


----------



## snowlover91

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I wish they would allow us to choose any of the brightness levels to fit into each of the 6 modes. For example, I could choose to put a moonlight mode in the H1 or H2 spot, thus making the light turn on to moonlight with a single click. And make the maximum brightness go in the low1 mode, so a long press would activate max. Stuff like that would add a lot of flexibility, and give people a greater way to customize the UI they way they want.
> 
> All it would require is a simple change to the programming, where instead of cycling between 2 or 3 choices, it would cycle between all 11 choices. And allow the programming of both the main mode and submode spots, depending on where you started the programming sequence.



Agreed, I would love to see this idea implemented that way it keeps the great UI but allows users to customize it based upon their needs and preferences. It could be as simple as once you enter mode programming it cycles through all 11 choices like you mentioned. I can't imagine this being difficult or hard to do either, should be an easy change in the circuit programming I would guess.


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> No info yet that I'm aware of. Acebeam finally announced details on their H10 headlamp - 2000lm with an MT-G2. Also running on 1x18650 and small form. So, maybe ZL will do something similar? Seems like that 5000K MT-G2 would also make a lot of people happy (both cool and neutral white camps) as well as avoid tint issues. I don't recall complaints about this emitter being green/purple/yellow.
> 
> They just told me there are no plans for an MT-G2 light, but I hope they were just lying


Hmm if truly no plans of a MT-G2 light, I wonder what the change in the 63 will be? I'm starting more and more to become a big fan of ZL and really feel like I need a 62w. Sure wish we could see some specs of the 63 though I don't know how much longer I'll be able to hold out for a 62w lol.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

StorminMatt said:


> Then again, it must be remembered that not everybody wants a throwy light with a tight hotspot. Throw may impress people. And it may have its place for such uses as law enforcement or search and rescue. But for probably the vast majority of folks who want a flashlight to hike at night, light up a campsite, or provide light to change a tire, flood rules. And when it comes to Zebralight, most folks who buy these lights actually LIKE the floodiness of a Zebralight. So while trying to have 'better optical control' may sound nice and make it sound like you have a better light, it might really just mean that the light is precisely designed to be less suitable to most people for most purposes.



Yup, that's exactly why I love my mk ii. The beam is great for edc in my line of work.


----------



## thomas_sti_red

So, the specs are out for the MKIII (at least some):
- 1x 18650, unprotected only
- XP-L HI at 4400K, CRI 75
- slightly higher output at 1050 lm
- 3mm shorter so now under 10 cm (9,9)! That's EDC size! Same bezel, same weight
- slightly improved efficiency (0,1 lm from 5,5 to 6 months runtime).
- wider input & output voltage
- MSRP 95 $


I like the size!!
What are the pro's / con's for unprotected only?
Would they do this just to reduce the lenght by 3 mm?

So ... spout your opinions, don't hold back 

Oh yeah: should be out in August, and the SC5F and Fw this month.

Thomas


----------



## Overclocker

StorminMatt said:


> Then again, it must be remembered that not everybody wants a throwy light with a tight hotspot. Throw may impress people. And it may have its place for such uses as law enforcement or search and rescue. But for probably the vast majority of folks who want a flashlight to hike at night, light up a campsite, or provide light to change a tire, flood rules. And when it comes to Zebralight, most folks who buy these lights actually LIKE the floodiness of a Zebralight. So while trying to have 'better optical control' may sound nice and make it sound like you have a better light, it might really just mean that the light is precisely designed to be less suitable to most people for most purposes.




a little diffuser film instantly turns a throwy light into floody

can't do the reverse


----------



## LessDark

No support for protected batteries? Bah they will be excluding quite a few potential customers then (me at least!)...


----------



## Overclocker

thomas_sti_red said:


> So, the specs are out for the MKIII (at least some):
> - 1x 18650, unprotected only
> - 3mm shorter so now under 10 cm (9,9)! That's EDC size! Same bezel, same weight
> 
> What are the pro's / con's for unprotected only?




so that's where they got the 3mm. by making the battery compartment shorter

unprotected is better on zebralights, i've measured up to 4.2A on these things. protection circuit wastes a bit of energy and has a small voltage drop


----------



## markr6

Overclocker said:


> so that's where they got the 3mm. by making the battery compartment shorter
> 
> unprotected is better on zebralights, i've measured up to 4.2A on these things. protection circuit wastes a bit of energy and has a small voltage drop



LOL @ protected batteries! I'll never use them again. 1x18650, 4x18650 monster, whatever. But that's just me. Zebralights are a perfect example when NOT to use protected IMO. I've ran junk cells in my SC600w down to 2.8v or so, no problem. Just use a quality charger when juicing them back up.

3mm or .118 inches shorter. Not even the thickness of two US quarters. Not too exciting, but it's an improvement. I think these specs were out for awhile now on the spreadsheet, no? Maybe I missed some, or something was updated?

It all comes down to what this XP-L HI will do in the light. Could be a marginal improvement, could be a WOW!


----------



## uofaengr

Mind if I ask where you found the specs? Really hoping to see some specs on the SC63(w) soon. Getting too hard to hold back on ordering a 62w.


----------



## WarRaven

markr6 said:


> LOL @ protected batteries! I'll never use them again. 1x18650, 4x18650 monster, whatever. But that's just me. Zebralights are a perfect example when NOT to use protected IMO. I've ran junk cells in my SC600w down to 2.8v or so, no problem. Just use a quality charger when juicing them back up.
> 
> 3mm or .118 inches shorter. Not even the thickness of two US quarters. Not too exciting, but it's an improvement. I think these specs were out for awhile now on the spreadsheet, no? Maybe I missed some, or something was updated?
> 
> It all comes down to what this XP-L HI will do in the light. Could be a marginal improvement, could be a WOW!


Sorry Mark R6, but I can relate to that poster, there is a place for protected cells.

I am not sure it's safe to say junk cells that are unprotected are safe.

As far as I know it's not safe to overload a junk cell with high draw, 1000 lumens roughly a 3 amp draw?
Correct me where wrong, please do OK.


----------



## Mr Floppy

thomas_sti_red said:


> - 3mm shorter so now under 10 cm
> Would they do this just to reduce the lenght by 3 mm?



Well, it probably means no TIR lens.

It could be that the springs have been replaced with a contact system similar to the SC5.


----------



## markr6

WarRaven said:


> Sorry Mark R6, but I can relate to that poster, there is a place for protected cells.
> 
> I am not sure it's safe to say junk cells that are unprotected are safe.
> 
> As far as I know it's not safe to overload a junk cell with high draw, 1000 lumens roughly a 3 amp draw?
> Correct me where wrong, please do OK.



By junk I meant old, but quality cells. Sorry that was misleading and you probably thought "xxxFire" brand. This was Sanyo UR18650Y from a laptop pull. No problems whatsoever. Use a new quality Panasonic or Samsung? Even less worry.


----------



## thomas_sti_red

uofaengr said:


> Mind if I ask where you found the specs? Really hoping to see some specs on the SC63(w) soon. Getting too hard to hold back on ordering a 62w.




Hi uonfaengr

From the Zebralight website. The big red button on the left "compare all models" opens the spreadsheet.

Thomas


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Mind if I ask where you found the specs? Really hoping to see some specs on the SC63(w) soon. Getting too hard to hold back on ordering a 62w.



Zebralight posted them on their spreadsheet a few weeks ago. Zebralight.com and click on the red button (compare all models). I think everyone is talking about the SC600w Mk III HI here, though. Nothing on the SC63 yet. It could be a month, or a year


----------



## thomas_sti_red

markr6 said:


> I think these specs were out for awhile now on the spreadsheet, no? Maybe I missed some, or something was updated?



Hi Markr6,

Maybe they were. But I noticed them when I checked the sheet this morning, and hadn't seen them posted here before.
Possibly I missed it.

Thomas


----------



## WarRaven

markr6 said:


> By junk I meant old, but quality cells. Sorry that was misleading and you probably thought "xxxFire" brand. This was Sanyo UR18650Y from a laptop pull. No problems whatsoever. Use a new quality Panasonic or Samsung? Even less worry.


I've a Pelican M6.
Was hanging aground here before "Roar of the Pelican".
Just to throw that out there as why would I ever think xxxxfire from what you said lol.


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> Zebralight posted them on their spreadsheet a few weeks ago. Zebralight.com and click on the red button (compare all models). I think everyone is talking about the SC600w Mk III HI here, though. Nothing on the SC63 yet. It could be a month, or a year


Thanks! I never really noticed the spreadsheet link there. Looks like I'm gonna be checking it daily to see if there's any updates. I emailed ZL about a possible 63 just curious to see what I can squeeze out of them lol. Something I noticed looking at the spreadsheet is that only the AA lights (I think) don't have PID control. It'd be very nice instead of the timed step-down but curious why they don't have it.


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Thanks! I never really noticed the spreadsheet link there. Looks like I'm gonna be checking it daily to see if there's any updates. I emailed ZL about a possible 63 just curious to see what I can squeeze out of them lol. Something I noticed looking at the spreadsheet is that only the AA lights (I think) don't have PID control. It'd be very nice instead of the timed step-down but curious why they don't have it.



I bet they have a part-time employee just to deal with all of our e-mails asking about new models!


----------



## Mr Floppy

markr6 said:


> I bet they have a part-time employee just to deal with all of our e-mails asking about new models!



Yeah, called /dev/null.
One for the Unix heads.

There's not a lot of staff. I'm amazed to get a response at times.


----------



## markr6

Mr Floppy said:


> Yeah, called /dev/null.
> One for the Unix heads.
> 
> There's not a lot of staff. I'm amazed to get a response at times.



LOL yeah, but maybe the small size is a good thing. Possibly more passionate about the lights and new ideas instead of pumping out Fenix copy-cat lights.


----------



## Overclocker

nope there's just one gal named Lillian. she does everything


----------



## Mr Floppy

Overclocker said:


> nope there's just one gal named Lillian. she does everything



Seen an email from George, rare as it is. Must still be quite interested in project as they've pumped out some nice stuff lately


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

uofaengr said:


> Thanks! I never really noticed the spreadsheet link there. Looks like I'm gonna be checking it daily to see if there's any updates. I emailed ZL about a possible 63 just curious to see what I can squeeze out of them lol. Something I noticed looking at the spreadsheet is that only the AA lights (I think) don't have PID control. It'd be very nice instead of the timed step-down but curious why they don't have it.



Selfbuilt says they have to calibrate the PID on every single unit. So, it's time-consuming and expensive to include PID if it's not really needed. According to selfbuilt, the SC5 (the brightest AA light) only gets too hot if you repeatedly keep boosting it back to maximum when it steps-down (every 3 minutes). So, a step down appears sufficient for the AA lights.

It would be nice to have PID on the SC5, but if it was running on maximum the whole time, the battery would only last about 15 minutes. So, I'm not sure there's a big need for it.


----------



## uofaengr

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> It would be nice to have PID on the SC5, but if it was running on maximum the whole time, the battery would only last about 15 minutes. So, I'm not sure there's a big need for it.



Very good point.


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Very good point.



+1. These sub-hour runtime modes, on any light, are just a novelty for me anyway. I never intend to run them for any decent amount of time. They may prove to be handy in some applications, but most of the time the lower modes are good enough. I've stepped up to 18650 for just about all of my lights to get the good runtimes AND output.


----------



## phantom23

I'd love to see SC63 (or even SC62) with XP-L HI. It would be impressive light.


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> +1. These sub-hour runtime modes, on any light, are just a novelty for me anyway. I never intend to run them for any decent amount of time. They may prove to be handy in some applications, but most of the time the lower modes are good enough. I've stepped up to 18650 for just about all of my lights to get the good runtimes AND output.


Since on my SC52w I can't set up the 280 lumen mode to be my H1 with 14500 in the tube, I've got H2 set as the default mode at 172 lumens. I've found the only time the 500 lumens is useful is when I'm just screwing around outside and want to impress myself. In practical use, the jump between 50 lumen M1 and 500 lumen H1 is far too great. I'm quickly becoming a big ZL fan and on the border of ordering a SC62w. The mode variety particularly on the high levels combined with the runtime and small EDCable form factor really makes me think it could be the light that makes me stop buying lights (unless ZL makes a triple Nichia) since I know more about what I like now. 


phantom23 said:


> I'd love to see SC63 (or even SC62) with XP-L HI. It would be impressive light.


It seems like maybe that's the trend as the next big thing taking place of the XM-L2. What are the advantages of this emitter over the L2 besides it being brighter I'm sure.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

uofaengr said:


> It seems like maybe that's the trend as the next big thing taking place of the XM-L2. What are the advantages of this emitter over the L2 besides it being brighter I'm sure.



The XPL-HI is an emitter designed for throw (narrow beam angle). I don't see it as a replacement for the XML2, which is designed more for flood. The XPL has slightly higher efficiency, but only a few percent better.

IMO, I think the SC63 will continue to use a floody emitter, and the SC600 will go for a throwy emitter. Otherwise, there's not really much point in carrying both lines.


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Since on my SC52w I can't set up the 280 lumen mode to be my H1 with 14500 in the tube, I've got H2 set as the default mode at 172 lumens. I've found the only time the 500 lumens is useful is when I'm just screwing around outside and want to impress myself. In practical use, the jump between 50 lumen M1 and 500 lumen H1 is far too great. I'm quickly becoming a big ZL fan and on the border of ordering a SC62w. The mode variety particularly on the high levels combined with the runtime and small EDCable form factor really makes me think it could be the light that makes me stop buying lights (unless ZL makes a triple Nichia) since I know more about what I like now.



I use the 172lm often. I don't really miss the 280lm mode, because I don't think I ever used it!! Too bad you can't access it directly. But like I said, I literally don't know what I'm missing and think 172lm is fine.

I think the only thing that would make the SC5w a winner for me over the SC52w would be the ability to use two of the H2 modes together and forget the 500lm. I think this was mentioned already, but 304lm (.9hr) and 107 (3.5hr) would be great.

Sorry, too much SC52 talk in the 63/600 thread :tsk:


----------



## uofaengr

Well guys...got my answer  Very thankful these guys are willing to share this information. 

"There will be a SC63 later this year (4th quarter I think). We have developed a new LED driver for this class of lights (SC600, H600/H603, SC63, ...). It's brighter, more efficient, to be able to handle 6V 2CR123 sources, and to be able to drive some 6V LEDs"


----------



## snowlover91

uofaengr said:


> Well guys...got my answer  Very thankful these guys are willing to share this information.
> 
> "There will be a SC63 later this year (4th quarter I think). We have developed a new LED driver for this class of lights (SC600, H600/H603, SC63, ...). It's brighter, more efficient, to be able to handle 6V 2CR123 sources, and to be able to drive some 6V LEDs"



Wow sounds great I'll be saving up for this one  I have the 62w already and love it, I might upgrade to the SC63w depending on what it's like. I hope they use the small pins in the tail cap just like the SC5 does, it cuts down on size and makes it so much easier to screw the tail cap on.


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Well guys...got my answer  Very thankful these guys are willing to share this information.
> 
> "There will be a SC63 later this year (4th quarter I think). We have developed a new LED driver for this class of lights (SC600, H600/H603, SC63, ...). It's brighter, more efficient, to be able to handle 6V 2CR123 sources, and to be able to drive some 6V LEDs"



AWESOME!!! Upcoming FIRESALE!! Just kidding...it will take a lot for me to give up my "old" models since it took forever to find a good, artifact-free tint on all of them. But Since I recently gave up my SC62w, I'm sure the SC63 will lure me in 

And like I've said before, I don't like CR123s but having the ability to use 2 in certain applications is great!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

uofaengr said:


> "There will be a SC63 later this year (4th quarter I think). We have developed a new LED driver for this class of lights (SC600, H600/H603, SC63, ...). It's brighter, more efficient, to be able to handle 6V 2CR123 sources, and to be able to drive some 6V LEDs"



Interesting. I wonder if run-times on 18650's will actually be improved, or if it's just support for 2xCR123 that's added.

In any case, hopefully the SC63 will include an updated LED or something like that. A new driver isn't much reason for a new light.


----------



## uofaengr

With this information, if it were to get a new LED, what would be likely? Isn't the MT-G2 a 6V emitter? But they've already stated they have no current plans for a MT-G2 light. Do most agree that the XM-L2 is pretty good as is?

I might still be ordering a 62w soon. I just think about how the light can be changed or updated to be better. The things drawing me to it are the efficiency, PID control, love the 52w beam profile which is similar, and mainly the size for 18650. 

Who knows if they could go smaller, isn't it already pretty small for an 18650? If it's smaller or even the same size, and you go brighter, then the heat has gotta go somewhere and your PID control will be stepping down a lot sooner. Not to mention very uncomfortable to hold. A 1500 lumen burst is cool, yeah, and it sells lights, but what's it really good for other than showing off and killing your battery? On the other hand, if the 63 is larger, even if it's brighter, then it becomes less appealing to me. I'd like to be able to EDC the light in my pocket and the 62 seems to have a good reputation for that. I like to be able to carry my tools daily and bond with them lol. If I just want a bigger, bright light that I can't carry, well I have a TN12 for that.

So do any of you 62 owners who EDC this light think this is as good as it gets? The only improvement I could think of would be UI where every mode can be programmable or more sublevels allowed. The option to run 2 CR123s in a pinch is also nice.


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> With this information, if it were to get a new LED, what would be likely? Isn't the MT-G2 a 6V emitter? But they've already stated they have no current plans for a MT-G2 light. Do most agree that the XM-L2 is pretty good as is?
> 
> I might still be ordering a 62w soon. I just think about how the light can be changed or updated to be better. The things drawing me to it are the efficiency, PID control, love the 52w beam profile which is similar, and mainly the size for 18650.
> 
> Who knows if they could go smaller, isn't it already pretty small for an 18650? If it's smaller or even the same size, and you go brighter, then the heat has gotta go somewhere and your PID control will be stepping down a lot sooner. Not to mention very uncomfortable to hold. A 1500 lumen burst is cool, yeah, and it sells lights, but what's it really good for other than showing off and killing your battery? On the other hand, if the 63 is larger, even if it's brighter, then it becomes less appealing to me. I'd like to be able to EDC the light in my pocket and the 62 seems to have a good reputation for that. I like to be able to carry my tools daily and bond with them lol. If I just want a bigger, bright light that I can't carry, well I have a TN12 for that.



I'd bet they stick with the XM-L2. Someone on BLF did a nice comparison between XP-L and XM-L2; similar beam and output, but the XP-L was a little brighter. So that's an option, but unlikely IMO.


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> I'd bet they stick with the XM-L2. Someone on BLF did a nice comparison between XP-L and XM-L2; similar beam and output, but the XP-L was a little brighter. So that's an option, but unlikely IMO.


Lumens sell, but even if they updated with something that's a 100 lumens or so brighter, can one really tell the difference (or do the numbers on paper really mean that much to some people)? The TN12 was my first really bright light, and I barely tell much difference between the 800 lumen mode and the 1000 lumens. Shining at a wall, yeah I see it, but out walking around not too different. I'm really just thinking about how much my battery is draining the whole time lol.


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Lumens sell, but even if they updated with something that's a 100 lumens or so brighter, can one really tell the difference (or do the numbers on paper really mean that much to some people)? The TN12 was my first really bright light, and I barely tell much difference between the 800 lumen mode and the 1000 lumens. Shining at a wall, yeah I see it, but out walking around not too different. I'm really just thinking about how much my battery is draining the whole time lol.



True, they do sell. Personally I'm over the lumen thing. I got so spoiled with 4000+lm lately, it's hard to be "WOWED" by even 1000lm increases. For the increase in heat and battery drain, the gain is nonexistent.

The beam type (flood/throw), tint and UI are at the top of the list now. Also, hand warmers do not have a place in my collection.


----------



## KeepingItLight

uofaengr said:


> With this information, if it were to get a new LED, what would be likely? Isn't the MT-G2 a 6V emitter? But they've already stated they have no current plans for a MT-G2 light...



The Cree MT-G2 has three options for forward voltage: 6v, 9v, and 36v. I suppose either of the first two could be used in flashlights. I have the Nitecore P36. It sports an MT-G2 running on 2x 18650. So does the Fenix TK35UE. Do those designs use the 6v version? Probably.

There is a 3x 18650 version of the Eagletac SX25L3 that runs the MT-G2. It can also be fueled by 6x CR123A. It uses a current-regulated buck driver with an operating voltage of 5.4v to 19v. Does this model also use the 6v version of the MT-G2?

According to the email message uofaengr received from Zebralight, their new driver will allow 6v emitters to be used. Two fresh CR123A batteries will give you that voltage, but with a single 18650, you are still well below 6v. Obviously, you would need a boost driver to run the MT-G2 on 1x 18650. That would be easy for Zebralight to design—its buck/boost drivers are excellent—but 1x 26650 implementations, such as the Fenix PD40, will give better runtimes. I would love to see Zebralight try one of those.


----------



## uofaengr

Ah screw it, went ahead and ordered a SC62w. It'll be awhile before a 63w is out, and if I like it I can just sell this one. The specs and dimensions of the 62 are hard to beat but we'll see. Willing to bet my Keeppower 3400mah won't fit though. If the 63 has a fully programmable UI it could be hard to pass up. Damn, this is worse than when I first got addicted to knives. [emoji4]


----------



## markr6

By the way...SC6330 Mk II.

Do it ZL!! Do it now!!!


----------



## 18650

uofaengr said:


> With this information, if it were to get a new LED, what would be likely? Isn't the MT-G2 a 6V emitter? But they've already stated they have no current plans for a MT-G2 light. Do most agree that the XM-L2 is pretty good as is?


 It could be something like XHP70 but I'd prefer MT-G2.


----------



## KeepingItLight

uofaengr said:


> Ah screw it, went ahead and ordered a SC62w.



Oh, yeah! :thumbsup:



uofaengr said:


> Willing to bet my Keeppower 3400mah won't fit though...



Oh, no! You lose! 

Now you have to post some pictures when your new toy arrives.







I read somewhere that the new Keeppowers are not double-wrapped. If yours are the old ones, they may be a tight fit.


----------



## uofaengr

KeepingItLight said:


> Oh, yeah! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no! You lose!
> 
> Now you have to post some pictures when your new toy arrives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that the new Keeppowers are not double-wrapped. If yours are the old ones, they may be a tight fit.


Will do! Will have to find a 62 thread though as not to clog this one up... [emoji1] Excited since the dealer said he picked out a nice tint (no green!) for me. [emoji106] 

My Keeppowers were received this week so they should be new. I'd read in the 62 thread they didn't fit. The print on the wrapper is a little different than yours though. Fingers crossed...


----------



## davidt1

New ZL lights should have a user programmable UI like Vinh Drive or DriverVN or something like that. It's long overdue. USB charging port would be nice too, but might make the lights bigger.


----------



## Phry

davidt1 said:


> New ZL lights should have a user programmable UI like Vinh Drive or DriverVN or something like that. It's long overdue. USB charging port would be nice too, but might make the lights bigger.



Each to their own. I for one would hate to see a change to their UI or a USB port. The ZL UI is the best around IMO. As is. Three modes, two choices for each and a flashing mode. Access to each from off and great spacing. Hope they keep it as is.

USB charging? Again, no thanks. Slow charging, port makes the light bigger and not as waterproof etc, adds a rubber boot or other parts, size, weight etc. Lots of cons no real pros. Anyone who has an 18650 probably has a charger. Many chargers work in your car or off a PC etc anyway.

I just wish they would release more models. S6330B, Q50. More high power stuff too. Oh, and actually have STOCK!


----------



## marinemaster

Good points
Agree


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Agreed too. Anyone wanting big changes to the lights, should probably buy another brand. Please don't mess up what you have, ZL.


----------



## psychbeat

Id also be bummed if they became black anoed chunky USB lights with a bloated complicated UI 

Hope that doesn't happen.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

davidt1 said:


> New ZL lights should have a user programmable UI like Vinh Drive or DriverVN or something like that. It's long overdue. USB charging port would be nice too, but might make the lights bigger.



It is not impossible for ZL to create a programming capability that would enhance mode sequence and choices, even if many of us are just fine with the existing setup (including myself). As far as USB charging inside a sealed flashlight... If you use your light often and need to recharge a lot, it certainly is easier than unscrewing the tailcap then screwing it back on every time.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Overclocker said:


> so that's where they got the 3mm. by making the battery compartment shorter
> 
> unprotected is better on zebralights, i've measured up to 4.2A on these things. protection circuit wastes a bit of energy and has a small voltage drop


With the new lg hg2 and Samsung 30q I don't even care.


----------



## thedoc007

BababooeyHTJ said:


> With the new lg hg2 and Samsung 30q I don't even care.



If you like those, check out the NCR18650GA. My personal favorite, at least for now. 3500 mAh and ten amp rating, available in protected and unprotected button tops, as well as the default unprotected flat top. All options for around $10 or less.


----------



## Amelia

If Zebralight puts a USB charging port on their lights, they will make a sale to me... but it won't be the one they want. I'll buy a few more of their OLDER models without the USB charging, then never buy another light from them again!


----------



## Overclocker

BababooeyHTJ said:


> With the new lg hg2 and Samsung 30q I don't even care.



of course 4.2A is nothing for those cells

but i understand now why they made the battery compartment shorter. it's to prevent the use of protected batteries. same thing with the new Acebeam H10, 2000 lumens from a single 18650, draws 5+ amps


----------



## Overclocker

Amelia said:


> If Zebralight puts a USB charging port on their lights, they will make a sale to me... but it won't be the one they want. I'll buy a few more of their OLDER models without the USB charging, then never buy another light from them again!



i think the consensus is that people don't want USB charging on zebralights. i for one don't


----------



## Mr Floppy

Overclocker said:


> i think the consensus is that people don't want USB charging on zebralights. i for one don't



I wouldn't mind so much if the option to remove the cell is still available. I would rather have a qi charger though. Come home, plonk the light on the qi pad.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Overclocker said:


> of course 4.2A is nothing for those cells
> 
> but i understand now why they made the battery compartment shorter. it's to prevent the use of protected batteries. same thing with the new Acebeam H10, 2000 lumens from a single 18650, draws 5+ amps


I probably quoted the wrong post. Its mostly due to capacity. Although I would love to see a discharge curve compared to a 3400mah Panasonic.


----------



## fnj

To date, Zebralight has been laudably resistant to mickey mouse ideas like changing the UI to stupid, and building in a charger circuit which would be a 100% pointless added failure mode.

Thank you, Zebralight.


----------



## kj2

ZL tells me they've no plans of releasing a multi 18650 light (SC6330) this year or early next year. Their focus is on releasing MK III lights.


----------



## Overclocker

kj2 said:


> ZL tells me they've no plans of releasing a multi 18650 light (SC6330) this year or early next year. Their focus is on releasing MK III lights.



well i'm not surprised. after witnessing first hand the power of the acebeam H10 (2000 lumen single-18650) i could already imagine the power of the mk3 driver combined with the usual zebralight sophistication to yield an sc600-sized (or perhaps a bit larger) 2000 lumen flashlight. 

the era of 1100 lumen limit for 1x 18650 is officially over 

here's the H10 btw. they've beaten ZL to market


----------



## rickyro

Some person ask for a rechargeable ZL, not asking for all ZL added with one USB port.

Some person ask for more programmability, not asking ZL to be only programmed in their way.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

rickyro said:


> Some person ask for a rechargeable ZL, not asking for all ZL added with one USB port.
> 
> Some person ask for more programmability, not asking ZL to be only programmed in their way.



Extra programmability, great, as long as it's not overly complex. I don't want to have to open up the manual every time I program it. While I would personally like more options for programming, I know it strikes a nice balance right now between usability and options. So, Zebralight should be cautious about making changes.

The USB port is just a dumb idea. Anyone too lazy to unscrew the tailcap and charge their own battery, probably should stick with Maglites and alkaleaks.


----------



## thedoc007

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Extra programmability, great, as long as it's not overly complex. I don't want to have to open up the manual every time I program it. While I would personally like more options for programming, I know it strikes a nice balance right now between usability and options. So, Zebralight should be cautious about making changes.



Agreed.



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The USB port is just a dumb idea. Anyone too lazy to unscrew the tailcap and charge their own battery, probably should stick with Maglites and alkaleaks.



Strongly disagree. Just because YOU don't have a use for it, doesn't mean that others won't find it helpful. Being able to charge on the go without having to carry around a standalone charger is a good option to have for some. Personally, if I am at home, I take the cells out and use a separate charger...but your implication that wanting built-in charging makes someone lazy is ridiculous. I certainly wouldn't want it on every model, but suggesting that any sort of built-in charging is automatically a dumb idea is not a sensible approach either.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

thedoc007 said:


> Strongly disagree. Just because YOU don't have a use for it, doesn't mean that others won't find it helpful. Being able to charge on the go without having to carry around a standalone charger is a good option to have for some. Personally, if I am at home, I take the cells out and use a separate charger...but your implication that wanting built-in charging makes someone lazy is ridiculous. I certainly wouldn't want it on every model, but suggesting that any sort of built-in charging is automatically a dumb idea is not a sensible approach either.



Buy another brand. Zebralight is all about bright light in the smallest form possible. Bulking up the head of the light with charging circuitry is counter to their brand. Anyone buying a Zebralight is smart enough to know how to change and charge their own batteries. If they're really too lazy to do that, they can always use primaries.

Even if Zebralight made only one model with USB charging, it would signal to me that they are losing direction and focus as a company. They should leave Joe Sixpack lights to other companies.


----------



## rickyro

thedoc007 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> Strongly disagree. Just because YOU don't have a use for it, doesn't mean that others won't find it helpful. Being able to charge on the go without having to carry around a standalone charger is a good option to have for some. Personally, if I am at home, I take the cells out and use a separate charger...but your implication that wanting built-in charging makes someone lazy is ridiculous. I certainly wouldn't want it on every model, but suggesting that any sort of built-in charging is automatically a dumb idea is not a sensible approach either.



I know a friend buying cheap Chinese made 18650 rechargeable flashlights for his senior relatives as Xmas gifts. Why? Take use of long time standby using hours of 18650 and the old guys don't have 18650 chargers but they are educated enough to know how to use a micro USB charger.

About the UI, definitely many persons prefer default low. You can tell it by Malkoff and many custom design. More programmability does not necessarily mean more complexity, but mean the possibility to change to default low.


----------



## thedoc007

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Buy another brand. Zebralight is all about bright light in the smallest form possible. Bulking up the head of the light with charging circuitry is counter to their brand. Anyone buying a Zebralight is smart enough to know how to change and charge their own batteries. If they're really too lazy to do that, they can always use primaries.



There you go again, saying that stupidity or laziness is the only reason to want built-in charging. This is just not the case...it is a matter of CONVENIENCE, not inability to charge in another way.

Built-in charging doesn't have to be bulky...and I for one wouldn't mind seeing how small ZL could make a light with that feature. Like you, I respect ZL's focus, but that doesn't mean that anything other than what they are doing now is a stupid idea...companies that get too set in their ways rarely fare well over the long term.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

thedoc007 said:


> There you go again, saying that stupidity or laziness is the only reason to want built-in charging. This is just not the case...it is a matter of CONVENIENCE, not inability to charge in another way.



Sure, because it's soooo inconvenient to unscrew the tailcap, pop the old battery onto a charger, and put in a fresh battery. Worst 20 seconds of my life!


----------



## Amelia

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Sure, because it's soooo inconvenient to unscrew the tailcap, pop the old battery onto a charger, and put in a fresh battery. Worst 20 seconds of my life!



Hmmm... takes me about 10 Sec. - about the same amount of time it takes me to fiddle with micro USB plugs and figure out which way to plug them into the socket ! 

Yeah... I agree... built in USB charging is a pretty lame idea, adds complexity to the design that must be paid for, adds more parts to potentially fail, adds machining steps to include a connector hole, increases the chances of leaks and condensation through that same connector hole, and gives you a nice aluminum pipe bomb if the battery vents while charging. All for what? Oh yeah... to avoid unscrewing a battery cap and sticking a battery into a charger.

No thanks.


----------



## markr6

In-light charging for 1 cell? No big deal.

3- or 4-cell lights? Sure why not...but I'd still rather use my own charger, be able to select the charge rate, and watch the voltage/mAh added while charging.


----------



## xzel87

Incorporating in light charging can be a great way to attract new customers (non-flashaholics) as they don't need to worry about purchasing additional charging hardware separately, not to mention the additional cost. In addition, many uninformed consumers always go for the cheapest chinese chargers available, which adds to the danger of using li-ion.

I'm sure for guys that have 5-6 chargers at home would probably view in-light charging as lame or frivolous but for some people it can actually be a good (and safer) solution.

And yeah, the convenient part of the whole thing is a big plus too, not to mention practicality.


----------



## insanefred

xzel87 said:


> Incorporating in light charging can be a great way to attract new customers (non-flashaholics) as they don't need to worry about purchasing additional charging hardware separately, not to mention the additional cost. In addition, many uninformed consumers always go for the cheapest chinese chargers available, which adds to the danger of using li-ion.
> 
> I'm sure for guys that have 5-6 chargers at home would probably view in-light charging as lame or frivolous but for some people it can actually be a good (and safer) solution.
> 
> And yeah, the convenient part of the whole thing is a big plus too, not to mention practicality.



I only have 2 chargers for my flashlight batteries. I prefer not to have to deal with a usb plug at all. *Simple is safe*, there are plenty of alternatives out there with usb charging options, keep it away from my Zebralight!


----------



## Mr Floppy

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Extra programmability, great, as long as it's not overly complex. I don't want to have to open up the manual every time I program it. While I would personally like more options for programming, I know it strikes a nice balance right now between usability and options. So, Zebralight should be cautious about making changes.



As long as there is an easy way to reset to factory, I would like extra programming (or deprogramming). Well at least the ability to but not in a way for every one. Just something for the advanced users. Of course will never happen as the time and effort to create such a thing would not be worth it economically. 



> The USB port is just a dumb idea. Anyone too lazy to unscrew the tailcap and charge their own battery, probably should stick with Maglites and alkaleaks.



Yes, the usb port is a dumb idea. Qi charging please.


----------



## markr6

I would also like to NOT give them a reason to increase the prices any more. Keep things small, light and simple as usual.


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Pros and Cons of In-light Recharging*

Without any facts whatsoever on which to base an opinion, my intuition tells me that in-light recharging will be one of the biggest attractions ever for non-flashaholics. It gives you the high-performance of Li-ion, and you can recharge by plugging into the cable you are already using for your cell phone. My guess is that the market for this sort of flashlight is several orders of magnitude larger than the flashaholic market. If I am right, then we better get used to these lights, because they will become ubiquitous. Alongside models that do not feature in-light recharging, I expect all the major manufacturers to be offering rechargeable models.

[EDIT: There will be enormous pressure for Zebralight to follow suit.]

For discerning flashlight owners, I think in-light recharging is a mixed bag. There is a definite place for it. In your car, for instance, it is convenient not to have to carry around a separate charger. Other times, you may run a light longer than you expected, and get caught with low batteries and no charger nearby. If you tote your EDC flashlight in a pack or purse—rather than in your pocket—you may find that that’s a light where you prefer to have in-light recharging.

But it’s a convenience that comes at a price. Flashlight size, weight, complexity, and points-of-failure are all increased somewhat when you add a charger to a light. As these tradeoffs demonstrate, building a high-quality charger may not be compatible with the goal of building a high-quality light. You like slow charging? You’ll love in-light recharging. 

Finally, there is the issue of price. Why should I keep paying to buy a new charger every time I buy a light? This is especially relevant because the in-light rechargers are likely to be of lower quality than the dedicated chargers I like to use at home.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Pros and Cons of In-light Recharging*



KeepingItLight said:


> Finally, there is the issue of price. Why should I keep paying to buy a new charger every time I buy a light? This is especially relevant because the in-light rechargers are likely to be of lower quality than the dedicated chargers I like to use at home.




The in-light rechargers will likely also mean a proprietary battery format. 4sevens recently went this way. It's probably done for safety, and perhaps ease of manufacturing. 4sevens probably doesn't want people putting an Ultrafire in their sealed light and charging it until it goes  .

When your battery dies, you'd better hope the company is still in business AND is still making those proprietary batteries. In 3 years, when you need a new battery, what do you think the chances will be that your light is still being made? If your light isn't being made, there's not much reason for the company to still make batteries for it.

I think it all leads to manufactured obsolescence. Throw away your light in 3 years, because you won't be able to power it any more. Maybe that's good for the flashlight companies (they get to sell Joe Pixpack another light), but it's not good for the consumer.

Be careful what you wish for.


----------



## Amelia

*Re: Pros and Cons of In-light Recharging*

Yep. The previous few posts are right on!
I want NOTHING to do with it... I have my externally charged, non-proprietary battery format lights to last me probably the rest of my life. I can live without all the whiz-bang "features" coming down the pipe.


----------



## StorminMatt

thedoc007 said:


> I like the idea, it is about time ZL got into 26650. But I do not think they should do it with the SC600...why not a new model? Seems like that would just lead to confusion.



Agreed. Zebralight NEEDS a 26650 light. Maybe they could do a 1x26650 MT-G2 light similar to the Fenix PD40 (but a better execution of that particular light). Of course, even a 1x26650 XM-L2 light would provide VASTLY better runtime than your typical 18650 light.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

StorminMatt said:


> Agreed. Zebralight NEEDS a 26650 light. Maybe they could do a 1x26650 MT-G2 light similar to the Fenix PD40 (but a better execution of that particular light). Of course, even a 1x26650 XM-L2 light would provide VASTLY better runtime than your typical 18650 light.



They dropped the 6330, so I'm not sure they want to do larger lights.


----------



## AdamDaze

I'm a noob, shopping around for a flashlight, and the "Usb charging" part is fairly crucial. I agree it's going to make the market absolutely explode. Nothing prevents those lights being charged externally as well, but for the noob-entry having all the work tidied internally isn't scary. We're used to it with our phones. External batteries/fire/9500 different types/omgexplosion is a much bigger barrier to entry.

Unfortunately the usb market, especially for anything near EDC, is all over the place.

Every light out there seems to have 1 fatal flaw. 

MH20 - Flat bezel (I want crenulated). Port not waterproof without flap. Weirdly fat head design.
MH12 - If this had a crenulated bezel and a properly waterproof port it'd be an instant buy. IT doesn't.
MH2c - Screw cover usb with o-rings (yessss, but getting on the long side.
UC35 - Charges 3rd party batts, flat bezel, larger side. Port waterproof without flap! But it's large for EDC.
Regen MMR-x : screw cover usb, but wont charge 3rd party batts. Low cap proprietary batt. No tailstand. No freaking clip. I'd probably jump at this one, even with a proprietary battery if it was a higher capacity. And had a clip (seriously, guys, no clip?). 
Relic XR : Incredible features, but it's just too huge. If it were mmr-x size it'd be literally perfect. 

Whole host of other rejects like the klarus / olight for propietary mag connectors, uc30 for not being waterproof without the plug, jetbeam for using a stupid usb > dc plug cable, and the list goes on.

My personal dream light is a MT20c, but with a double the output and a screw-cover usb recharge that accomodates 3rd party / larger batteries. Heck, I'd even take it without the red led. Or pretty much a SC62 with usb. But they just doesn't exist yet. Soon my pretties.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

AdamDaze said:


> I'm a noob, shopping around for a flashlight, and the "Usb charging" part is fairly crucial. I agree it's going to make the market absolutely explode. Nothing prevents those lights being charged externally as well,
> .
> .
> .
> Regen MMR-x : screw cover usb, but *wont charge 3rd party batts*. Low cap proprietary batt. No tailstand. No freaking clip.



If internal charging catches on, this is the way it will go. Any North-American or European company will not want to defend against lawsuits from people that exploded the flashlight while charging it with some crappy 3rd-party battery. You might get Chinese flashlights that don't care about safety, because they couldn't care less about lawsuits, but beware.

The end result will be a good throw-away light in 3 years, when the battery dies and you can't get a replacement. Just like every other electronic gadget nowadays with a proprietary battery. More good stuff ending up in landfills, and causing consumers to buy it all over again. Great for companies!


----------



## WarRaven

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> If internal charging catches on, this is the way it will go. Any North-American or European company will not want to defend against lawsuits from people that exploded the flashlight while charging it with some crappy 3rd-party battery. You might get Chinese flashlights that don't care about safety, because they couldn't care less about lawsuits, but beware.
> 
> The end result will be a good throw-away light in 3 years, when the battery dies and you can't get a replacement. Just like every other electronic gadget nowadays with a proprietary battery. More good stuff ending up in landfills, and causing consumers to buy it all over again. Great for companies!


What cell would that be that won't be around in three years?

In light charging can be better controlled by OEM then end user, whom had to buy light then battery and charger. Plug an play is the answer, Masses rule.

Myself, I welcome it, as another great option.
Always a bonus to be able to top off a cell IMO, and in my use.


Edit to add. 
My only thought about negative on it, is if it's sealed in or not, sealed equals no sale period.


----------



## Amelia

WarRaven said:


> What cell would that be that won't be around in three years?
> 
> In light charging can be better controlled by OEM then end user, whom had to buy light then battery and charger. Plug an play is the answer, Masses rule.
> 
> Myself, I welcome it, as another great option.
> Always a bonus to be able to top off a cell IMO, and in my use.
> 
> 
> Edit to add.
> My only thought about negative on it, is if it's sealed in or not, sealed equals no sale period.



That's exactly what he's talking about - sealed proprietary batteries or packs. Too much liability with removeable-cell chargeable flashlights that any "Joe Bargainshopper" can throw a "Catchesfire 19,000 mAH" 18650 into for charging-induced detonation.


----------



## WarRaven

I see thank you.

Seeing as how some OEM are headed this way, smart cells with ID chips will be coming. Profit for everyone, err OEM, light an cell OEM alike. 
In mean time, I will as always avoid that type of light with proprietary packs.

Until time of chipped or smart cells are forced, I say bring on the full user capabilities of in light charging.
We'll need to hang onto last editions of them to able to select our own cells, if we can still get them at that time. 

Got to roll with it IMO.


----------



## FlashlightR

Maybee they come with wireless internal charging like the new smartphones. Just place the light nearby a wireless charging point / pad and the light will start charging[emoji3]


----------



## uofaengr

They'll eventually have touch screens to operate the light and change modes with a battery indicator like on our phones. Then they'll have built in Mp3 players or allow themselves to be used as a battery bank so people can charge their friggin phones.


----------



## Mr Floppy

FlashlightR said:


> Maybee they come with wireless internal charging like the new smartphones. Just place the light nearby a wireless charging point / pad and the light will start charging[emoji3]


That is what I've been saying. If any one can design it, George can. 



uofaengr said:


> They'll eventually have touch screens to operate the light and change modes with a battery indicator like on our phones. Then they'll have built in Mp3 players or allow themselves to be used as a battery bank so people can charge their friggin phones.



Already there. Except the MP3 player, unless you count the pwm module by Dr Jones...


----------



## StorminMatt

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> They dropped the 6330, so I'm not sure they want to do larger lights.



A 26650 light need not be much bigger than the current SC600. Think of an SC600 with a body the same diameter as the head. A 26650 light would certainly be MUCH more compact than the 6330.


----------



## uofaengr

Mr Floppy said:


> Already there. Except the MP3 player, unless you count the pwm module by Dr Jones...



Ha I had that feeling when I was typing it. Of course it already exists.


----------



## markr6

StorminMatt said:


> A 26650 light need not be much bigger than the current SC600. Think of an SC600 with a body the same diameter as the head. A 26650 light would certainly be MUCH more compact than the 6330.



Exactly. Take the Fenix PD40 but give it the kickass Zebralight UI. I'm in.


----------



## geal

Pleeease hi- cri nichia 219c. Only way I'll upgrade because perfectly satisfied with my sc62w


----------



## 18650

*Re: Pros and Cons of In-light Recharging*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The in-light rechargers will likely also mean a proprietary battery format. 4sevens recently went this way. It's probably done for safety, and perhaps ease of manufacturing. 4sevens probably doesn't want people putting an Ultrafire in their sealed light and charging it until it goes  . When your battery dies, you'd better hope the company is still in business AND is still making those proprietary batteries. In 3 years, when you need a new battery, what do you think the chances will be that your light is still being made? If your light isn't being made, there's not much reason for the company to still make batteries for it. I think it all leads to manufactured obsolescence. Throw away your light in 3 years, because you won't be able to power it any more. Maybe that's good for the flashlight companies (they get to sell Joe Pixpack another light), but it's not good for the consumer. Be careful what you wish for.


 Fenix lights will say only use with Fenix branded batteries and chargers. Done. Look at all of the dodgy lithium ion replacements (of varying quality) you can get for cell phones or digital cameras. Your hypothetical scenarios are way overplayed.


----------



## geal

*Re: Pros and Cons of In-light Recharging*

Also don't want built in charging. Deal breaker for me. Will not by a Zebra with this feature. Adds unnecessary bulk and complication.


----------



## Mr Floppy

geal said:


> Pleeease hi- cri nichia 219c. Only way I'll upgrade because perfectly satisfied with my sc62w



There is a 97 CRI led by osram I think. I think it is rather warm though. 85 CRI Nichia 219C at 5000K could be interesting to compare to the luxeon T.


----------



## AdamDaze

uofaengr said:


> .... Then they'll have built in Mp3 players or allow themselves to be used as a battery bank so people can charge their friggin phones.



Ahaha. Ahhh. Yeah. http://www.zerohourxd.com/collectio...erohour-relic-xr-flashlight-3400mah-pre-order

Frankly I think this is a great thing. That light would be an insta-buy if it wasn't too big for an EDC. Crenulated bezel, o-ring screw seal ports, tail button, tail stand, clip. I just have no justification for any kind of "larger" flashlight, just yet, being a city slicker without a night job.


----------



## geal

I think more lumens should be the major advantage of 219c over luxeon plus likely (hopefully) higher cri at higher temp so not super warm. This is my impression from what I've read...:shrug::shrug:


----------



## markr6

*H600Fd Mk III and H600Fc Mk III* are now in play as well. Nice!!


----------



## twistedraven

Would be interesting to see if the larger body of the H600 allows Zebralight to push the Luxeon T to even higher Lumens, or if there's some kind of 6v Luxeon option at play as well. Though the frosted lens would mitigate some of the extra lumens if there is any.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> Would be interesting to see if the larger body of the H600 allows Zebralight to push the Luxeon T to even higher Lumens, or if there's some kind of 6v Luxeon option at play as well. Though the frosted lens would mitigate some of the extra lumens if there is any.



A decent increase would be nice.

320lm doesn't cut it for me. We can play the "_320lm is more than enough for 98% of my uses_" game all day long. But I'd rather have access to everything from moonlight to 1000lm or so...because I can  Losing 10CRI is worth that to me.


----------



## Amelia

markr6 said:


> *H600Fd Mk III and H600Fc Mk III* are now in play as well. Nice!!



Yes! I'm definitely buying.
This has been a GREAT (and expensive...) year for flashlights!


----------



## markr6

Amelia said:


> Yes! I'm definitely buying.
> This has been a GREAT (and expensive...) year for flashlights!



No kidding! I almost want ZL to go back to slow updates and almost no in-stock lights to save me money


----------



## 18650

twistedraven said:


> Would be interesting to see if the larger body of the H600 allows Zebralight to push the Luxeon T to even higher Lumens, or if there's some kind of 6v Luxeon option at play as well. Though the frosted lens would mitigate some of the extra lumens if there is any.


 The datasheet on the Luxeon T says 1050mA is the maximum which the SC62d is pretty close to if I'm not mistaken. The only way for more lumens is to go for the Luxeon M multi-die emitter but I do not think the high CRI versions of those come in 4000K and 5000K varieties. My guess is we're stuck on 320 lumens.


----------



## StorminMatt

18650 said:


> The datasheet on the Luxeon T says 1050mA is the maximum which the SC62d is pretty close to if I'm not mistaken. The only way for more lumens is to go for the Luxeon M multi-die emitter but I do not think the high CRI versions of those come in 4000K and 5000K varieties. My guess is we're stuck on 320 lumens.



Unless there is/will be some sort of upgraded Luxeon T emitter.


----------



## Beacon of Light

Any idea of when Zebralight might incorporate their line or even a flagship model light that will offer the fully programmable UI like that? 2016? 2017?



gunga said:


> I think I had heard they wanted to make all the levels programmable. So, instead of quick press to H1, you can do quick press to L1. I'm unsure that will be in these releases though. Major changes like that may not come for a while...


----------



## Beacon of Light

I can't imagine it being that hard to do considering the old Novatac or HDS? lights that had that easter egg to turn the regular ones into the pro models where you could customize every mode and this was a light that is over 10 years old. Surely technology had made GREAT leaps since then. I love those lights but I mainly use headlamps now, so would be great to have a UI that was customizable like that (without having to do 250 clicks to get into the UI)


----------



## thburns

Specs look to be on the ZebraLight spreadsheet now for the SC600 MKIII and HC600 MKIII. The HC600 MKIII says 8/15 for the release date, and the SC600 MKIII says 9/15.


----------



## markr6

All old news. Man, we really need to combine these ZL threads!


----------



## insanefred

markr6 said:


> All old news. Man, we really need to combine these ZL threads!



These threads were originally for different models, one of them clearly has gone off topic.


----------



## markr6

The SC63 really got buried. No news or talk and still not on the spreadsheet. Hopefully it pops up soon.


----------



## Overclocker

there's really not much to improve upon on the sc62. it's almost perfect except for the lack of PID on the strobes. that should be easy to fix in software


----------



## moozooh

Overclocker said:


> there's really not much to improve upon on the sc62. it's almost perfect except for the lack of PID on the strobes. that should be easy to fix in software



Is there even any need for using PID on the strobes? The 4 Hz and 19 Hz strobes emit default H1 brightness at a 50% duty cycle I believe; does it ever get hotter than what H1 typically gets?


----------



## WarRaven

Strobe, Pwm cooling ☺


----------



## uofaengr

Overclocker said:


> there's really not much to improve upon on the sc62. it's almost perfect except for the lack of PID on the strobes. that should be easy to fix in software


I agree. I think they hit it out of the park with this one and why I went ahead a couple months ago and got one instead of waiting for the 63. A fully programmable UI is about the only other thing I'd want BUT I'm perfectly fine with the way it is. I'd never want the head any bigger nor the body any longer or fatter...perfect the way it is.


----------



## markr6

No need to say it but I will. GREAT LIGHT! I had one, loved it, bought another. Then for some reason I sold both...crazy. I just got one from another member and decided I just need to keep it this time!

I even played around with some filtering: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Changing-tint-with-DIY-quot-tape-quot-filter


----------



## Overclocker

moozooh said:


> Is there even any need for using PID on the strobes? The 4 Hz and 19 Hz strobes emit default H1 brightness at a 50% duty cycle I believe; does it ever get hotter than what H1 typically gets?



yep try it. gets hot


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Overclocker said:


> yep try it. gets hot



Just how long do you plan to strobe someone, before your light starts to get hot? If he doesn't walk away after 10 or 20 minutes of strobing, he's probably blind and you're just wasting your time.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Just how long do you plan to strobe someone, before your light starts to get hot? If he doesn't walk away after 10 or 20 minutes of strobing, he's probably blind and you're just wasting your time.



I can see the slower flashing for riding a bike maybe during the day for safety? A strobe, I dunno...but I'm sure there are some creative uses out there!


----------



## Overclocker

here's a tip. the olight TW10 cone diffusers fit the sc62 very well. take the orange one TW10-O, 4hz flash on the 62. tons of uses

but heats up


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> I can see the slower flashing for riding a bike maybe during the day for safety? A strobe, I dunno...but I'm sure there are some creative uses out there!



Yes, I can see a slow flash being useful on a bike, though wind cooling would make PID moot. A disco party is the only other thing that comes to mind.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

thedoc007 said:


> Count me in that group as well. If I want high, I want it NOW. For low, I don't mind a brief wait. I have been using ZL's interface for a while, and I have no trouble consistently entering low mode with the long press.
> 
> Runtime is so good with any decent modern LED light that it doesn't matter TOO much (at least to me) and plenty of other lights have similar brightness, compact form, floody beam, etc. The interface is the single truly unique feature that makes Zebralight so special.



That's the thing about the ZL UI - you get both instant low and instant high (low is even quicker than high). When you do a quick press-release (single click) the light goes to low on press and high on release, without any waiting on either one. So while a single click is a very deterministic way of getting to high "NOW", the low actually comes faster, though with more of a mental math tax.

This is also the problem with considering a "single click for low" type of UI. They would have to really re-do their whole timing. Because while a press-release where the press goes to low and the release goes to high (their current setup) is fine, the opposite is not fine. (If you want a single click for low and long-press for high, then the light would HAVE to go to low when you first press it.)


----------



## eraursls1984

gunga said:


> I think I had heard they wanted to make all the levels programmable. So, instead of quick press to H1, you can do quick press to L1. I'm unsure that will be in these releases though. Major changes like that may not come for a while...


I'd love to just be able to reprogram the L1, M1, and H1 modes. 


scout24 said:


> I'll still suggest a "blacked out" version. Brought this up a couple hears ago. Lose the shiny bezel ring and switch surround, give me a titanium stonewashed clip, or a black one. NOT PAINTED! Dark screws, too. Chrome has it's place, it looks cheesy on otherwise fine products. I think ZL has their UI down pat, and their build quality has been good for a long time now. Even do a pre-order, or a special run with limited numbers going to dealers. Send them out as a feeler. Trial balloon. I bet they would sell like hotcakes.


They need to switch to a stainless bezel ring with AlTiN coating, and the same with the clip and screws. Keep the body the dark grey they seem to be consistent with now and they would look amazing. 


Romanko said:


> And I would like to see 2*18650 side by side. Maybe with 2 leds or with one. We are posting, but are there zebralight's representative from Zebralight Do they read this thread?


Kinda like the Fenix LD50. It would need two buttons with one LED for throw and the other for flood. 


fatsteve0 said:


> I missed out on the s6330. Always wanted one!


What was the original price on these when they were available? 


davidt1 said:


> A ZL aaa light would be very special indeed.


I'd love to see a single AAA Zebralight, and even a 2 x AAA penlight. 


moozooh said:


> There's no doubt that TIR lenses would work perfectly for ZL lights, especially considering how they allow a more compact housing which is a priority for ZL.


I'd love to see TIR to further reduce the size of the SC32, SC52, and SC62(63).


markr6 said:


> One more thing. Since the anodizing varies so much, I wish the would just switch to black. The very dark olive/greyish color is cool when you get it, but more than half the time you get a olive-goldish color, almost transparent since the anodizing is so weak.


I thought they have gotten better recently with the dark grey natural anodizing. Mine is a perfect dark grey. No light grey or olive color at all. 


turkeylord said:


> I would prefer to advance to the next mode rather than start over at moonlight, which might as well be "off" after walking with the H600w on medium.


This, and being able to reprogram H1, M1, and L1 are my most wanted features. Also the ability to have all modes enabled, or more than just 2 low, 2 medium, and 2 High would be nice as well.


----------



## UMDTERPS

I just hope they release a MK with the ability to use CR123 batteries, that's why I ultimately sold my MKII.


----------



## markr6

UMDTERPS said:


> I just hope they release a MK with the ability to use CR123 batteries, that's why I ultimately sold my MKII.



I ran my SC62w on 2x123 for 10 seconds or so. No problems, but who knows what would happen for an extended period of time. I don't want to possibly blow $85 to find out!


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> I ran my SC62w on 2x123 for 10 seconds or so. No problems, but who knows what would happen for an extended period of time. I don't want to possibly blow $85 to find out!


Worst case scenario isn't blowing the driver. Be careful. I say that with all due respect.


----------



## recDNA

UMDTERPS said:


> I just hope they release a MK with the ability to use CR123 batteries, that's why I ultimately sold my MKII.


I agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> Worst case scenario isn't blowing the driver. Be careful. I say that with all due respect.



I don't ever plan on using CR123. I don't like them; never have. But I see why some people would like the option (cold winter backpacking, BOB)


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> I don't ever plan on using CR123. I don't like them; never have. But I see why some people would like the option (cold winter backpacking, BOB)


To leave in the car during the summer too.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> To leave in the car during the summer too.



Yes. I destroyed an Eagletac 3400 doing that! 220uA+ resistance and a cracked wrapper around the PCB. Oops


----------



## geokite

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yes, I can see a slow flash being useful on a bike, though wind cooling would make PID moot. A disco party is the only other thing that comes to mind.



Riding home with my SC600 in 4Hz on my handlebars in the September heat of Socal; it gets hot, very hot. PID would be great in all H1 strobe modes.

Steve


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

For CR123a just get an SC32?

*thinking* Does Zebralight have any non-single-cell lights?


----------



## emarkd

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> *thinking* Does Zebralight have any non-single-cell lights?



Not currently, as far as I know, but they have before: Zebralight S6330


----------



## eraursls1984

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> For CR123a just get an SC32?
> 
> *thinking* Does Zebralight have any non-single-cell lights?


I think many prefer the runtimes of the 18650, but want the benefits of being able to use a common battery in emergencies.


----------



## emarkd

eraursls1984 said:


> I think many prefer the runtimes of the 18650, but want the benefits of being able to use a common battery in emergencies.



Not trying to be argumentative, but this statement always bugs me. What is it about AAs or other "common batteries" that people think is so great in an emergency? Is it because you can scrounge a handful of half-dead cells out of your TV remote or your kid's train set? What good is that really, 20 more minutes of runtime? And in a regional emergency like a hurricane or something, common batteries are one of the first things gone from the store shelves, so not exactly easy to come across in that situation.

18650s have literally 4x the energy density of AAs so keeping a few extra 18650s around is a much better plan to me, and put together they contain more energy than every AA battery in my house. On top of that there are some decent solar chargers on the market that could possibly keep you lit indefinitely if you've got a good spot to use it during the day. If shelf life is your concern, li-ion wins again because many 18650 lights will also run off of CR123 primaries, which have a much longer shelf life than AAs. So for an emergency, I'd personally rather have a 6v-capable 18650 light, several extra charged 18650s, and a box of CR123s. Or better yet, several lights in both 18650 and CR123 configurations.

But again, I'm not trying to be argumentative. Many folks like having "common battery" lights for emergencies but I don't see the benefit.


----------



## eraursls1984

emarkd said:


> Not trying to be argumentative, but this statement always bugs me. What is it about AAs or other "common batteries" that people think is so great in an emergency? Is it because you can scrounge a handful of half-dead cells out of your TV remote or your kid's train set? What good is that really, 20 more minutes of runtime? And in a regional emergency like a hurricane or something, common batteries are one of the first things gone from the store shelves, so not exactly easy to come across in that situation.
> 
> 18650s have literally 4x the energy density of AAs so keeping a few extra 18650s around is a much better plan to me, and put together they contain more energy than every AA battery in my house. On top of that there are some decent solar chargers on the market that could possibly keep you lit indefinitely if you've got a good spot to use it during the day. If shelf life is your concern, li-ion wins again because many 18650 lights will also run off of CR123 primaries, which have a much longer shelf life than AAs. So for an emergency, I'd personally rather have a 6v-capable 18650 light, several extra charged 18650s, and a box of CR123s. Or better yet, several lights in both 18650 and CR123 configurations.
> 
> But again, I'm not trying to be argumentative. Many folks like having "common battery" lights for emergencies but I don't see the benefit.


I was referring to CR123As. The talk was about Zebralight adding 2xCR123A support to the 18650 light. Currently their 18650 lights do not support 2xCR123A. CR123As are also a common battery that can be found in store and have a long shelf life as you have said.


----------



## emarkd

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. I guess I don't usually think of cr123s as common batteries. But I see your point.


----------



## Lumencrazy

twistedraven said:


> Can't see how the SC62 will be outdated anytime soon. I don't think there's any other light on the market that combines the tiny size, efficiency and advanced regulation quite like the SC62.
> 
> Maybe they'll update the Cree versions, but I wonder about the Luxeon version.



Awesome light. Just seems to work for everything. Of all the lights I have I am always using this one. I could live with this being my only light, which, practically speaking, it is. I only wish they made the aluminum surrounding the front bezel a little thicker.


----------



## uofaengr

emarkd said:


> Not trying to be argumentative, but this statement always bugs me. What is it about AAs or other "common batteries" that people think is so great in an emergency? Is it because you can scrounge a handful of half-dead cells out of your TV remote or your kid's train set? What good is that really, 20 more minutes of runtime? And in a regional emergency like a hurricane or something, common batteries are one of the first things gone from the store shelves, so not exactly easy to come across in that situation.
> 
> 18650s have literally 4x the energy density of AAs so keeping a few extra 18650s around is a much better plan to me, and put together they contain more energy than every AA battery in my house. On top of that there are some decent solar chargers on the market that could possibly keep you lit indefinitely if you've got a good spot to use it during the day. If shelf life is your concern, li-ion wins again because many 18650 lights will also run off of CR123 primaries, which have a much longer shelf life than AAs. So for an emergency, I'd personally rather have a 6v-capable 18650 light, several extra charged 18650s, and a box of CR123s. Or better yet, several lights in both 18650 and CR123 configurations.
> 
> But again, I'm not trying to be argumentative. Many folks like having "common battery" lights for emergencies but I don't see the benefit.


Partially agree with this and can see it both ways. The commonality of the AA is great for finding a fuel source most anywhere, but what good does it do you if everyone has already snatched them all up at every store? Most of us here probably already have a stash of AAs somewhere so we're not going to be running out to the store anyway in a crisis so in that case why not use 18650 IF you have a way to charge it? Now this could make a good argument for a car light having AAs so if you're out in the middle of nowhere and there's a gas station anywhere, you can find batteries easily. 

I do like having a couple good AA lights around though just in case and for fuel variety. I look at it the same as people who have only one caliber of ammo, 9mm as an example. When a panic buy hits, it's always the first to go while some other calibers are easier to find. As much as I like to consolidate things to reduce waste, I like having more than one caliber of ammo as I do flashlight fuel. 


Lumencrazy said:


> Awesome light. Just seems to work for everything. Of all the lights I have I am always using this one. I could live with this being my only light, which, practically speaking, it is. I only wish they made the aluminum surrounding the front bezel a little thicker.


Agreed. If I could only keep one, it'd probably be the SC62w. I'll be bummed if it's discontinued or changed dramatically.


----------



## emarkd

uofaengr said:


> Most of us here probably already have a stash of AAs somewhere so we're not going to be running out to the store anyway in a crisis



That's probably true, but those aren't really great in emergencies anyway because Alkalines have pretty bad shelf life, especially compared to CR123s. So li ion still wins for me on that front.



uofaengr said:


> I do like having a couple good AA lights around though just in case and for fuel variety.



Agree completely and there's obviously nothing wrong with that. I do own AA lights, I'm sure most of us here own multiple lights, but when some person shows up looking for an emergency light I really hate seeing all the arguments in favor of AAs, like they're somehow better in emergencies when I just don't see that as being the case.



uofaengr said:


> If I could only keep one, it'd probably be the SC62w.



Nobody asked me, but I'm with you guys.  I own dozens of flashlights but its my SC62w that goes in my pocket every morning. Unlike you though I'm kinda anxious to see what they do for the rumored SC63 light. Of course I hope they don't screw it up, but I've got faith.


----------



## snowlover91

eraursls1984 said:


> I was referring to CR123As. The talk was about Zebralight adding 2xCR123A support to the 18650 light. Currently their 18650 lights do not support 2xCR123A. CR123As are also a common battery that can be found in store and have a long shelf life as you have said.



Im sure they could add support for CR123 but the issue would likely be efficiency. Whenever you support multiple voltage ranges there is usually a loss of efficiency, either at the high end or moonlight/low end. I'd rather have the 18650 only support versus them making it work with both but losing some efficiency and runtime as a result. I would however like to see the SC63 updated with support for 4.35v 18650 batteries which would add extra runtime.


----------



## geokite

emarkd said:


> Not trying to be argumentative, but this statement always bugs me. What is it about AAs or other "common batteries" that people think is so great in an emergency? Is it because you can scrounge a handful of half-dead cells out of your TV remote or your kid's train set? What good is that really, 20 more minutes of runtime? And in a regional emergency like a hurricane or something, common batteries are one of the first things gone from the store shelves, so not exactly easy to come across in that situation..



Totally understand you. But for me, emergency could simply mean I'm traveling and I need a battery. 

I haven't decided if I prefer one battery type over the other. I have a couple ZLs in all three varieties. Each one has it's purpose and function. But for traveling away from a charger, I would bring a AA variety ZL.

Steve


----------



## 18650

emarkd said:


> Not trying to be argumentative, but this statement always bugs me. What is it about AAs or other "common batteries" that people think is so great in an emergency? Is it because you can scrounge a handful of half-dead cells out of your TV remote or your kid's train set? What good is that really, 20 more minutes of runtime? And in a regional emergency like a hurricane or something, common batteries are one of the first things gone from the store shelves, so not exactly easy to come across in that situation. 18650s have literally 4x the energy density of AAs so keeping a few extra 18650s around is a much better plan to me, and put together they contain more energy than every AA battery in my house. On top of that there are some decent solar chargers on the market that could possibly keep you lit indefinitely if you've got a good spot to use it during the day. If shelf life is your concern, li-ion wins again because many 18650 lights will also run off of CR123 primaries, which have a much longer shelf life than AAs. So for an emergency, I'd personally rather have a 6v-capable 18650 light, several extra charged 18650s, and a box of CR123s. Or better yet, several lights in both 18650 and CR123 configurations. But again, I'm not trying to be argumentative. Many folks like having "common battery" lights for emergencies but I don't see the benefit.


 It's pretty difficult to find CR123s in stores ever since film cameras died.


----------



## emarkd

18650 said:


> It's pretty difficult to find CR123s in stores ever since film cameras died.



Right, but they have awesome shelf life, so like I said above, you can buy a box of them and just keep them for emergencies. They'll last a lot longer than alkalines in this situation. I would never want to rely on being able to purchase more cells in an emergency, because in a real emergency batteries will be one of the first things to disappear from the shelves.


----------



## psychbeat

123 support would mean nerfing or disabling the highest modes due to the fact that 123s aren't supposed to be drained at more than ~1.5amps. 
I'm pretty sure the highest modes all pull more than that & max is ~3ish amps.
Zebra doesn't want to be responsible for people popping their primary's when fast clicking and forgetting. 

Probably fine on medium modes and with the voltage sag might not be too hard on he driver but we get into the other problem of over draining the 123s which the boost circuit will probably do down to 2.7v which might not be an issue for primaries (I'm not sure).


----------



## recDNA

You make a good point but they say it is bad to store fully charged 18660 so it they are not fully charged kind of like scrounging half dead AA? I like NiMH because I believe they are safer but I think they are fine stored "full". Of course I cannot settle on a NiMH charger but that is another kettle of fish.


----------



## emarkd

Yeah, you're right that its supposed to be bad for them. I've heard that too. I wouldn't really want to have a big stack of them; that's where the CR123s come in. Those are much better than any other battery format for longterm storage, I think.

I like NiMH too, by the way. There are plenty of Eneloops around my house, most of them in kid's toys. They supposedly have pretty low self-discharge rates as well, but nothing like li ion primaries. You didn't ask, but I use a Maha/Powerex charger to keep my Eneloops filled. It only does them, though, not li ions, so if you're wanting an all-in-one charger that won't work for you.


----------



## WarRaven

I store my laptop's fully charged, as well as tablets, phones, BT speakers etc. I still manage about two to three years life out of them.
I'll be buying new of these items before battery is useless, flashlight cells too, much more commonly. Ymmv.


----------



## uofaengr

I store mine full too as I currently only have one 18650 per 18650 light I have. Don't wanna need it and not have a charged battery. I am starting to accumulate more batteries though, and the ones that are not used as much, I'm considering discharging them to 3.7V or so and storing them.


----------



## mega_lumens

emarkd said:


> If shelf life is your concern, li-ion wins again because many 18650 lights will also run off of CR123 primaries, which have a much longer shelf life than AAs. So for an emergency, I'd personally rather have a 6v-capable 18650 light, several extra charged 18650s, and a box of CR123s. Or better yet, several lights in both 18650 and CR123 configurations.


 Can rechargeable lion cells last a decade in storage like primary CR123? I read that 18650s lose their ability to hold charge even in storage after 5 year max.


----------



## Outlander

Zebralight needs to hurry up and come out with the SC63 and H603. I've got money waiting to be spent!
The pressure to spend it on other lights is immense.


----------



## thedoc007

mega_lumens said:


> Can rechargeable lion cells last a decade in storage like primary CR123? I read that 18650s lose their ability to hold charge even in storage after 5 year max.



If stored properly, yes, they can. If you store them fully charged, you'll lose significant capacity within a year. But if you keep them cool, and store them at proper voltage, you can get many years out of li-ions as well.

Despite that, though, if you are actually PLANNING to store them for a decade, don't buy rechargeable cells of any kind. Primary lithium are cheaper, have a huge shelf life, are more resistant to temperature extremes, and are simpler to store.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

mega_lumens said:


> Can rechargeable lion cells last a decade in storage like primary CR123? I read that 18650s lose their ability to hold charge even in storage after 5 year max.



Nowadays, things are a bit different.

I have Sony 18650s that I got out of a VAIO pack, that are date coded 2002 and they charge up to a steady 4.15v, so 90% cap. I've done run tests for specific times and known current levels and capacity is more, or less confirmed.

A lot of 'how long a li-ion' lasts is how they're stored past a couple/few months. At 100% charged (4.20v,) you're going to lose inherent capacity, so most of us drop the voltages down to 3.6v-3.7v, place them in plastic cases and then ziplock baggies and then into the fridge.

That's a way of maximizing cell life for cells that you might not be using frequently.

Chris


----------



## Lumencrazy

Lower voltage = lower potential energy (AS LONG AS YOU DON’T FALL BELOW 2.5-2.8V). Lower temperature = lower potential energy. The lower the potential the lower the rate of unwanted internal reactions.
Li-ion batteries have been stored at low temperatures (above the freezing point of the electrolyte) for up to ten years without any significant degradation and loss in capacity. Obviously they have to be recharged prior to use.


----------



## Streak

I have collected about 30 18650's out of old laptop batteries.
About once or twice a year I make sure they are still acceptably charged and sometimes rotate them in my various 18650 lights.
I estimate I would have many weeks worth of light in the event that would be required.
I still have a bunch of AA lights as well and my EDC is the SC52w.


----------



## carl

Is the new H600 Mk III finally going to include a clip? I hope so. There are so many ways it can be clipped to a shirt, hat, cap, pants, etc. if they would include it as part of the package.


----------



## twistedraven

Mine didn't come with a clip.


----------



## Duramarks

Any word on release dates? I was about to purchase a sc600w ii until o came across this.


----------



## UTV2TiVo

carl said:


> Is the new H600 Mk III finally going to include a clip?



I got no clip.


----------



## akhyar

twistedraven said:


> Mine didn't come with a clip.



IIRC, the SC600 and SC600mkII don't come with pocket clip.
The pocket clip has to be purchased separately.

When I bought my SC600 back in 2011/12, the store where I made the purchase told me that the clip is a separate purchase.


----------



## UTV2TiVo

My SC600 Mk II L2 came with a clip. 
Unless things have changed. That was in June of last year.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

SC600 does come with a clip, which is both reversible and removable without tools.


----------



## emarkd

carl said:


> Is the new H600 Mk III finally going to include a clip? I hope so. There are so many ways it can be clipped to a shirt, hat, cap, pants, etc. if they would include it as part of the package.



You may already know this, but the Armytek Wizard Pro clip works really well on an H600. 







I mean, I agree it would be nice if ZL would include one, but if they don't this may work.


----------



## UTV2TiVo

Too bad Armytek doesn't sell those clips separately


----------



## emarkd

They don't, but Killzone Flashlights was able to order a bunch of them and sells them by themselves. You have to email them to order it - [email protected]

I'm not affiliated with them, by the way. I just saw them post this on another forum a few days ago and was sharing.


----------



## more_vampires

I'm anxious. When the heck is the Mark 3 finally going to be in my hands? I check Zebralight's page probably once a week!

I've decided to try and sell my Mark 2. For a while I was thinking that I'd just hang on to the mk2 because it's such a good light.

Now, I've decided that the upgrade is a must have for me. Love the SC600 series. My favorite Zebralight.


----------



## xdayv

more_vampires said:


> I'm anxious. When the heck is the Mark 3 finally going to be in my hands? I check Zebralight's page probably once a week!
> 
> I've decided to try and sell my Mark 2. For a while I was thinking that I'd just hang on to the mk2 because it's such a good light.
> 
> Now, I've decided that the upgrade is a must have for me. Love the SC600 series. My favorite Zebralight.



What's with the III that makes you sell the II?


----------



## recDNA

I also wish 2 x CR123A were an option even if flashlight automatically made H1 inaccessible and dropped to H2. Several reasons really. They are much safer in cars since they are more tolerant of high or low temperatures than li ions. They also hold a charge for many years. Finally they never need to be recharged which is when bad things often happen to li ions yes even in good chargers. Even if charging offered zero potential for issues I simply don't like recharging so I would prefer to use primaries.

My sc32w takes a primary but current draw on 1 CR123A is extreme so I stick to H2 and below.


----------



## akhyar

recDNA said:


> I also wish 2 x CR123A were an option even if flashlight automatically made H1 inaccessible and dropped to H2. Several reasons really. They are much safer in cars since they are more tolerant of high or low temperatures than li ions. They also hold a charge for many years. Finally they never need to be recharged which is when bad things often happen to li ions yes even in good chargers. Even if charging offered zero potential for issues I simply don't like recharging so I would prefer to use primaries.
> 
> My sc32w takes a primary but current draw on 1 CR123A is extreme so I stick to H2 and below.




+1
If that happens, I plan to sell my 1st gen SC600 and get the latest :twothumbs


----------



## Overclocker

recDNA said:


> I also wish 2 x CR123A were an option even if flashlight automatically made H1 inaccessible and dropped to H2. Several reasons really. They are much safer in cars since they are more tolerant of high or low temperatures than li ions. They also hold a charge for many years. Finally they never need to be recharged which is when bad things often happen to li ions yes even in good chargers. Even if charging offered zero potential for issues I simply don't like recharging so I would prefer to use primaries.
> 
> My sc32w takes a primary but current draw on 1 CR123A is extreme so I stick to H2 and below.




i feel safer with a single-cell 18650 than 2-cell CR123A (under "normal" temperatures)

so yes they need to throttle back on CR123A's. just a few lines of code anyway...


----------



## Overclocker

sc62w w/ titanium clip is still the best 18650 edc in the world, even without cr123a support


----------



## eraursls1984

Overclocker said:


> i feel safer with a single-cell 18650 than 2-cell CR123A (under "normal" temperatures)
> 
> so yes they need to throttle back on CR123A's. just a few lines of code anyway...


I wish we could reprogram the H1, M1, and L1. I would change the H1 to the second highest level. Only because the 900+ lumens is more than I need and I'd preferllonger runtimes. This should also be safer if used with 2 CR123As. It could also automatically step down the H1 mode when it detects more than 4.35v.


----------



## more_vampires

xdayv said:


> What's with the III that makes you sell the II?


I know this sounds flashaholic-crazy, but if I have a ZL SC600 with 1020 and ZL comes out with SC600 L3 MkII or whatever with 1021lm I have decided that I love the light series enough to upgrade.

http://www.zebralight.com/SC600w-Mk-II-L2-18650-XM-L2-Flashlight-Neutral-White_p_122.html


> High: H1 *1020* Lm (PID, approx 2 hr) or H2 *620* Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs) / *330* Lm (3.9 hrs) / *150* Lm (11 hrs)


----------



## eraursls1984

Overclocker said:


> sc62w w/ titanium clip is still the best 18650 edc in the world, even without cr123a support


I agree, but it would only be better with more support. Where did you get that clip? How much better is it that the stock clip in terms of functionality? It looks so much better than the chrome clip, which happens to be my biggest complaint of Zebralight.


----------



## emarkd

more_vampires said:


> I know this sounds flashaholic-crazy, but if I have a ZL SC600 with 1020 and ZL comes out with SC600 L3 MkII or whatever with 1021lm I have decided that I love the light series enough to upgrade.



Dude you're on CPF, you don't have to explain flashaholism to us. I've got five Zebralights already, and dozens of other lights, and can guarantee I'm buying the Mk3 (and probably the SC63) when they come out. I don't even sell my old ones, I just line them all up and admire the family lineage.


----------



## recDNA

eraursls1984 said:


> I wish we could reprogram the H1, M1, and L1. I would change the H1 to the second highest level. Only because the 900+ lumens is more than I need and I'd preferllonger runtimes. This should also be safer if used with 2 CR123As. It could also automatically step down the H1 mode when it detects more than 4.35v.


You can set H2 as the one the turns on with one click


----------



## recDNA

emarkd said:


> Dude you're on CPF, you don't have to explain flashaholism to us. I've got five Zebralights already, and dozens of other lights, and can guarantee I'm buying the Mk3 (and probably the SC63) when they come out. I don't even sell my old ones, I just line them all up and admire the family lineage.


I cannot see any reason I would switch from 62w to 63w unless it supports primaries.


----------



## emarkd

recDNA said:


> I cannot see any reason I would switch from 62w to 63w unless it supports primaries.



Flashaholism isn't always logical, and like I said I don't sell my old lights anyway. I never said anything about _switching_ to the SC63...

Besides, I don't think we have a lot of details about the SC63 yet so its hard to make any sort of final claim about purchasing it. That's why I said _probably_. I personally don't have much interest in cr123 primaries so if that's all that changes I won't buy one. But that's just me..


----------



## more_vampires

One thing is certain: More Zebras in my future. Got 2 on me right now, so I think I'm stuck.


----------



## recDNA

emarkd said:


> Flashaholism isn't always logical, and like I said I don't sell my old lights anyway. I never said anything about _switching_ to the SC63...
> 
> Besides, I don't think we have a lot of details about the SC63 yet so its hard to make any sort of final claim about purchasing it. That's why I said _probably_. I personally don't have much interest in cr123 primaries so if that's all that changes I won't buy one. But that's just me..



You are in the vast majority. I know my hopes of primary support are virtually zero.


----------



## emarkd

recDNA said:


> You are in the vast majority. I know my hopes of primary support are virtually zero.



I don't claim enough EE knowledge to know for sure, but I've seen other folks make the claim that Zebralight basically had to choose between having its wide range of output levels + full regulation *OR* having a wide range of voltage input support. In other words, to support the 6v input for 2xCR123, they would have to sacrifice some other function or ability of their lights. If that's true, it probably means you won't be getting your 6v support.


----------



## more_vampires

Wide in and wide out of a driver usually translates to garbage efficiency, afaik. A bunch of power is going to waste heat.


----------



## eraursls1984

more_vampires said:


> Wide in and wide out of a driver usually translates to garbage efficiency, afaik. A bunch of power is going to waste heat.


The new H600c/d MKIII have 6v support, and have a lower H1 output. I'm not sure though if it's mainly because of 6v support, the High CRI LED, or a combination of the two. I don't mind sacrificing the max output but I don't want much sacrifice in efficiency.


----------



## eraursls1984

recDNA said:


> You can set H2 as the one the turns on with one click


Yep, and I do that on my SC52w. However, I mainly only use H2. I'd love to use H1 and H2 if H1 wasn't so bright (especially so on the 62/600s) and had longer runtimes. It's still one of the best UI around, this is just something that would improve it. 

Actually if they added Bluetooth and allowed you to program it from an app with any outputs you want then they would completely kill the rest of the flashlight market for me, except for customs. I can dream can't I?


----------



## more_vampires

eraursls1984 said:


> The new H600c/d MKIII have 6v support, and have a lower H1 output. I'm not sure though if it's mainly because of 6v support, the High CRI LED, or a combination of the two. I don't mind sacrificing the max output but I don't want much sacrifice in efficiency.


CPFer Reppans totally busted Zebralight on output claims. He also heavily dinged them on efficiency. They're not particularly efficient as is, especially low modes.

I still love ZL, but I'm not giving up my pre-ban 47 Quark. It's one of my SHTF lights, runtime on lowest mode is YES.


----------



## eraursls1984

more_vampires said:


> CPFer Reppans totally busted Zebralight on output claims. He also heavily dinged them on efficiency. They're not particularly efficient as is, especially low modes.
> 
> I still love ZL, but I'm not giving up my pre-ban 47 Quark. It's one of my SHTF lights, runtime on lowest mode is YES.


I still have my Quark Pro QP2L-X. I don't use it because it has horrible tint and I haven't found anyone to modify it. Also it can't run an 18650 for max runtimes, although if I could get it modded I'd throw a 2500 mah 16650 in it. I love the UI on the old Quarks(not as much as ZL), but hate the horrible tint all my 47s have, and wish they'd use real/quality HA III.


----------



## gunga

Send it to me. I'll mod it and provide a near new 16650 cell.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

more_vampires said:


> CPFer Reppans totally busted Zebralight on output claims. He also heavily dinged them on efficiency. They're not particularly efficient as is, especially low modes.



That was true, up until the SC5. I tested my SC5 currents on all the low modes, and it's several times more efficient than the SC52 series (at equivalent lumen output). It's also slightly more efficient on high modes. Zebralight's new driver for the SC5 really improved efficiency a lot.

My SC5w is about 25% more efficient than my Quark QP2A-X on similar moonlight output, which was my previous moonlight efficiency leader.

P.S. I'm using real output lumens to compare, not claimed output levels, which Zebralight does exaggerate. So, while you can't use the Zebralight numbers to calculate efficiency, you can still use real output to compare against other lights. And when you do that, the SC5w is still more efficient.


----------



## Mr Floppy

more_vampires said:


> CPFer Reppans totally busted Zebralight on output claims. He also heavily dinged



With his camera and stopwatch? Yeah, nothing like runtime graphs directly logged on a computer with graphs generated from the captured dataset.


----------



## recDNA

I don't use any one light enough to care about efficiency. I care about output and heat and safety and modes and of course I prefer option to use primaries but that's just me.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

For me, efficiency is about having your EDC light also be a light good for days at a time, if you're stuck with it in a pinch. For example, the V11R is great for my EDC needs, but runtimes (efficiency) is just not there.


----------



## carl

emarkd said:


> You may already know this, but the Armytek Wizard Pro clip works really well on an H600.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, I agree it would be nice if ZL would include one, but if they don't this may work.



Great idea! Thank you for your suggestion. 
One question: Is the width of the band going around the tube the correct size to fit into the groove of the Zebralight body or is the width a bit wider? Thank you for your help.


----------



## Duramarks

I'm looking to buy a sc62w at a decent price. Many sites have it listed for $85. But also are out of stock. Ebay also has very limited selections. Is the mk2 version that outdated?


----------



## emarkd

Duramarks said:


> I'm looking to buy a sc62w at a decent price. Many sites have it listed for $85. But also are out of stock. Ebay also has very limited selections. Is the mk2 version that outdated?


It's not outdated at all since we don't even know what the SC63 is yet, or when its coming. SC62 is still a current-gen light.


----------



## Duramarks

Ok, I didn't know if it was discontinued or anything. Are there any recommended sites to buy from? Possibly with a CPF code?


----------



## eraursls1984

Duramarks said:


> Ok, I didn't know if it was discontinued or anything. Are there any recommended sites to buy from? Possibly with a CPF code?


Check the CPF Specials thread in the good deals section.


----------



## markr6

Overclocker said:


> i feel safer with a single-cell 18650 than 2-cell CR123A (under "normal" temperatures)
> 
> so yes they need to throttle back on CR123A's. just a few lines of code anyway...



I've said it before that I'm not a big fan of CR123. But out of curiosity I've ran 2x123 in my SC62w for about a minute in the past.

Just now, I decided to try it again. I ran it for 5 minutes on H1, then a minute on H2 (326lm), then ran it thru some low modes which all seemed fine.

Still not advising this, but everything does seem to work just fine. Who knows if/went the electronics would go ?


----------



## recDNA

ZL low voltage warning should come sooner 3 volts instead of 2.5. I recycle li ion at 2.5. heat protection turn on at a lower temperature for me to feel safe with 18660. I really just prefer primaries at no more than 1.5 amps and no higher than 150 degrees F.


----------



## emarkd

markr6 said:


> I've said it before that I'm not a big fan of CR123. But out of curiosity I've ran 2x123 in my SC62w for about a minute in the past.
> 
> Just now, I decided to try it again. I ran it for 5 minutes on H1, then a minute on H2 (326lm), then ran it thru some low modes which all seemed fine.
> 
> Still not advising this, but everything does seem to work just fine. Who knows if/went the electronics would go ?



Can confirm, I've done it too. Probably didn't let mine go quite as long as you did, but I did try it before. Its probably like all those "3v" heads floating around out there that many of us regularly feed 4.2v without issue, but blowing up a Zebralight isn't exactly the same thing as letting the smoke out of a Microstream. I wouldn't do it unless you absolutely had no other choice.


----------



## recDNA

I would think PID would protect circuit but a lot of heat wasted.


----------



## uofaengr

recDNA said:


> I would think PID would protect circuit but a lot of heat wasted.


I don't really follow this statement...?


----------



## zipplet

uofaengr said:


> I don't really follow this statement...?



Some (all?) Zebralights contain a feature called PID. The light will lower its output if it gets too hot to prevent it from overheating. recDNA is saying that when you are using the wrong batteries in the light (2x CR123A), the PID is probably protecting the light (by lowering output when it gets too hot) however a lot of energy may be wasted as heat due to the high voltage.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

zipplet said:


> Some (all?) Zebralights contain a feature called PID. The light will lower its output if it gets too hot to prevent it from overheating. recDNA is saying that when you are using the wrong batteries in the light (2x CR123A), the PID is probably protecting the light (by lowering output when it gets too hot) however a lot of energy may be wasted as heat due to the high voltage.



I believe PID measures heat in the head of the flashlight, in the electronics. It doesn't measure the battery temperature or the temperature of the battery compartment. Yes, a hot battery would heat up the head of the light, but it would be an indirect heat source. I'm not sure PID would properly protect against an overheating battery, especially if the heat-up was rapid or not sustained for a long time. Also, critical temperature thresholds are different for protecting the LED and electronics (which PID is meant to do), vs. protecting the battery.


----------



## zipplet

Yeah - I thought the PID would be a temperature sensor on the PCB (or right next to the emitter). While it will not measure the battery temperature or protect from overheating batteries - another issue I overlooked as it could occur in this case - it would protect the electronics. When I said "it" I meant the electronics/LED and should have been a little more specific.

To be honest, I feel uneasy about the idea of putting 2x CR123A in a light designed for only 18650, but hats off to those who have tried it for our curiosity.


----------



## uofaengr

Fairly familiar with PID working with it in much larger applications everyday. The feedback from the temperature (sensor on the main board somewhere) is driving the emitter output. I would be more worried about the 6+ volts of 2 CR123s in series letting the smoke out of the electronics than any indirect heat (if any) the batteries might create. A PID loop is simply regulating an output based on closed loop feedback, not protecting a circuit from overvoltage or current. I'd think your board would go poof before your batteries affect the process variable, the temperature in this case.


----------



## recDNA

uofaengr said:


> Fairly familiar with PID working with it in much larger applications everyday. The feedback from the temperature (sensor on the main board somewhere) is driving the emitter output. I would be more worried about the 6+ volts of 2 CR123s in series letting the smoke out of the electronics than any indirect heat (if any) the batteries might create. A PID loop is simply regulating an output based on closed loop feedback, not protecting a circuit from overvoltage or current. I'd think your board would go poof before your batteries affect the process variable, the temperature in this case.


Don't forget in a high powered flashlight CR123A voltage sags. I'm not saying to do it or that it is safe but in H1 no way 2 x CR123A are at 6 volts. I don't know how much they sag but certainly below 6 volts. Still, no question excessive voltage could damage circuit and the vf of the led is below 6 also. I know I wouldn't do it. I won't even run the sc32w which is designed for a single primary on H1. The battery gets hot. I don't like that.

If the new sc63w is rated for 2 x CR123A I will buy one and run it at H2 max. I do not want to draw 3 amps from primaries in sequence.


----------



## uofaengr

True about the sag. Regardless, premature wear or sudden failure of the electronics would be the concern here and a control loop won't save that. If the upcoming 63 does support 6V, I wouldn't mind several changes to differentiate itself from the 62, and let the 62 stay on the shelves as is. Or just call it the SC6, kind of like you have the SC5 and SC52.


----------



## more_vampires

recDNA said:


> Don't forget in a high powered flashlight CR123A voltage sags. I'm not saying to do it or that it is safe but in H1 no way 2 x CR123A are at 6 volts. I don't know how much they sag but certainly below 6 volts. Still, no question excessive voltage could damage circuit and the vf of the led is below 6 also. I know I wouldn't do it. I won't even run the sc32w which is designed for a single primary on H1. The battery gets hot. I don't like that.
> 
> If the new sc63w is rated for 2 x CR123A I will buy one and run it at H2 max. I do not want to draw 3 amps from primaries in sequence.


Lithium chemistries don't sag badly. The open circuit voltage decreases as the battery drains. That value, whatever it is, stays pretty constant.

Voltage sag is when you're asking too much current from the battery and the voltage drops because it can't keep up.

Voltage sag is not a problem for lithium chem, both primary and rechargeable.

What's wrong from cr123x2 @ 3 amps? Scared of heat? Problem?

My favorite lights get really hot within a few minutes. It means that they kick butt.


----------



## recDNA

more_vampires said:


> Lithium chemistries don't sag badly. The open circuit voltage decreases as the battery drains. That value, whatever it is, stays pretty constant.
> 
> Voltage sag is when you're asking too much current from the battery and the voltage drops because it can't keep up.
> 
> Voltage sag is not a problem for lithium chem, both primary and rechargeable.
> 
> What's wrong from cr123x2 @ 3 amps? Scared of heat? Problem?
> 
> My favorite lights get really hot within a few minutes. It means that they kick butt.


That means 3 amp draw from each battery. It will.sag at 3 amps. To see it you would have to measure v under load. As soon as current stops v goes back up until as you said batteries are depleted.


----------



## more_vampires

recDNA said:


> That means 3 amp draw from each battery. It will.sag at 3 amps. To see it you would have to measure v under load. As soon as current stops v goes back up until as you said batteries are depleted.


Heh, you forgot about this thread, man. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?258661-Maximum-Amp-Draw-for-2-X-CR123

For 1500mah CR123 rated at 2c, that's 3 amps. There shouldn't be sag as this is their rating. If you go above this, that's where the sag starts to begin.

Please note that 2C continuous is not the same thing as maximum pulse, as max pulse is usually higher (sometimes by a lot.)

This varies wildly by manufacturer. Those shady ultrafire cr123a primaries you bought from a van in the side alley probably can't even do 2c I'd wager.

Some CR123 is 2.5c, some is 3c. I don't really scour the internet for the highest rated primaries as that's what I use lion for.

For a 3c 1500 mah CR123, that's 4.5 amps continuous. There'll be no sag.

Also, I'm talking about only single batteries. CR123ax2 should sag even less.

If you want high drain, just use lithium ion. Sony VTC5 is 30 amps (!) continuous.


----------



## 18650

more_vampires said:


> Heh, you forgot about this thread, man.  http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?258661-Maximum-Amp-Draw-for-2-X-CR123 For 1500mah CR123 rated at 2c, that's 3 amps. There shouldn't be sag as this is their rating. If you go above this, that's where the sag starts to begin. Please note that 2C continuous is not the same thing as maximum pulse, as max pulse is usually higher (sometimes by a lot.) This varies wildly by manufacturer. Those shady ultrafire cr123a primaries you bought from a van in the side alley probably can't even do 2c I'd wager. Some CR123 is 2.5c, some is 3c. I don't really scour the internet for the highest rated primaries as that's what I use lion for. For a 3c 1500 mah CR123, that's 4.5 amps continuous. There'll be no sag. Also, I'm talking about only single batteries. CR123ax2 should sag even less. If you want high drain, just use lithium ion. Sony VTC5 is 30 amps (!) continuous.


 Nothing there says 2C other than the word of one poster. Look at the actual spec sheets for different CR123A primaries (they're out there) and I don't think you'll see any near 2C. Maybe 1C.


----------



## more_vampires

As you add cells in series, they sag some. As you add more, it's not going to drop down to nothing or else you couldn't weld with 9v batteries in series.




By itself, a 9v battery is crap for voltage sag at relatively low discharge rates. If recDNA is correct, then the two above videos are impossible.


----------



## psychbeat

I'm pretty sure ALL kinds of cells sag a bit under load but anyways, all of this 123 talk has really bogged this thread down... 
Any news on the actual lights? 

I hope Zebra doesn't nerf future lights trying to make everyone happy by adding 6v compatibility.


----------



## more_vampires

psychbeat said:


> all of this 123 talk has really bogged this thread down...


I agree. Has anyone heard of a pre-release review yet?


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> I agree. Has anyone heard of a pre-release review yet?



Nothing new that I know of. SC600w Mk III HI still on the ZL spreadsheet with the old 9/2015 release date. SC63 not even on the sheet. I'm a little more interested in the SC63 since I'm not sure what improvements can be made. Maybe an XP-L since the SC600 will have an XP-L HI?


----------



## recDNA

2C is for li ions not primaries but chemistry has changed since then and some li ions do way more than 2C (IMR or hybrids) Surefire would not give me a straight answer on primary max current. I called them. Anyway I really hope new ZL allows for use for primaries safely.

Sorry for the detour. I love me some Zebralights! How cool would a zebra striped Zebra light be?


----------



## more_vampires

Yeah, you just made me realize that ZL comes in one color. I actually would be up for a Zebralight that's black/white zebra striped! 

Will they ever offer colors? Bet the new MKIII and SC63 are same ole ZL gray.


----------



## emarkd

Well honestly, some of my zebra's are kinda stripey. Their natural ano is far from one uniform color if you really look at it closely.


----------



## psychbeat




----------



## TCY

Bad news guys. I emailed ZL earlier today about MKIII's release date. They plan to introduce the MKIII later this month and shipping would commence about one month after, which means if any of us are lucky to get the very first batch, it would be late November.


----------



## emarkd

markr6 said:


> SC600w Mk III HI still on the ZL spreadsheet with the old 9/2015 release date.



Do you have a link to a working spreadsheet? Cause the one they link from the website has been busted for months now.


----------



## zipplet

I just bought a SC600 MKII (Cool White), however I'm not disappointed to find out about the MKIII. Very happy with my MKII - I am excited to find out what Zebralight bring in the new revision. Maybe next year if it is enough of a change I'll buy the MKIII in Neutral White - and keep both!


----------



## eraursls1984

emarkd said:


> Do you have a link to a working spreadsheet? Cause the one they link from the website has been busted for months now.


Try a different browser. It works fine for me.


----------



## emarkd

eraursls1984 said:


> Try a different browser. It works fine for me.



What the?! I had to sign out of my Google account for it to work. Crazy. While logged in to my account, it gives me:

Google Docs encountered an error. Please try reloading this page, or coming back to it in a few minutes.
To learn more about the Google Docs editors, please visit our help center.

*We're sorry for the inconvenience.*
_- The Google Docs Team


_Regardless, I can see it again. Thanks!


----------



## markr6

Good to have a more accurate ETA on the MKIII :twothumbs

Now for that SC63...


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

"Now for that SC63..."

+1


----------



## eraursls1984

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> "Now for that SC63..."
> 
> +1


At least specs on it. I'm not to hopeful we'll know much before the end of the year.


----------



## markr6

eraursls1984 said:


> At least specs on it. I'm not to hopeful we'll know much before the end of the year.



I just asked for a "sneak peak" on the SC63...any details if possible. Let's see what they say...

update: No info at the moment


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

> "update: No info at the moment"

Does this mean that you haven't yet heard back from ZL, or that ZL responded to you saying "no info for you!"


----------



## markr6

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> > "update: No info at the moment"
> 
> Does this mean that you haven't yet heard back from ZL, or that ZL responded to you saying "no info for you!"



Sorry, that is misleading now that you point that out. That was more or less a quote from them. They don't have any SC63 info to release yet.


----------



## Overclocker

i bet they're scratching their heads on what do do w/ the sc63. it's not a good candidate for XPL-HI since the reflector is too small. mk3 driver isn't all that exciting for XML2/XPL


----------



## eraursls1984

Overclocker said:


> i bet they're scratching their heads on what do do w/ the sc63. it's not a good candidate for XPL-HI since the reflector is too small. mk3 driver isn't all that exciting for XML2/XPL


The driver from the MK III's in a SC62w/SC63w would make me happy. I'd love to have 6v support in the SC62w. The XP-L HI might make me interested in a SC600w(not sure if there's a 4000-4500k XP-L HI), but not in a SC62w.


----------



## markr6

eraursls1984 said:


> The driver from the MK III's in a SC62w/SC63w would make me happy. I'd love to have 6v support in the SC62w. The XP-L HI might make me interested in a SC600w(not sure if there's a 4000-4500k XP-L HI), but not in a SC62w.



Zebralight lists the upcoming SC600 III HI as XP-L HI @ 4400K. That could just be a copy/paste typo from another light, but can't say for sure. I'd be happy with that!


----------



## recDNA

Even if it throws a little better that is a good thing.


----------



## Overclocker

i got an idea for sc63. zebralight i know you'll be reading here so please consider

overclocked strobe 

it's a 50% duty cycle anyway. the mk3 driver shouldn't have any trouble w/ this. i would be happy with a 1600 lumen strobe from an XML2. i really don't care if the 50,000hr LED life would be cut in half*

this would mean PID for the strobes


*the extreme thermal cycling would probably kill it faster than that. but perhaps you could mitigate that w/ a copper MCPCB? or a different solder?


----------



## Duramarks

I just got my Zebralight SC62 I just ordered...which is awesome. I wish I would have ordered one a long time ago. 

But I have a question. I ordered a SC62W, the box says SC62W, but the light itself says SC62. It doesn't really seem like a warmer tint but I don't have any idea what it should look like.

Did I get a mix up? Should the light itself actually read "SC62w"?


----------



## emarkd

Duramarks said:


> I just got my Zebralight SC62 I just ordered...which is awesome. I wish I would have ordered one a long time ago.
> 
> But I have a question. I ordered a SC62W, the box says SC62W, but the light itself says SC62. It doesn't really seem like a warmer tint but I don't have any idea what it should look like.
> 
> Did I get a mix up? Should the light itself actually read "SC62w"?


Crap, sounds like you got a mix-up. Here's my zebra's. You can see the 'w' on my sc62w


----------



## Gordo

Well I've officially misplaced my SC600 MkI. And as most the internal debate goes on. Buy a 600 or 62? Wait and buy the next gen. 600 or 63? sigh...


----------



## UTV2TiVo

When you finally decide to order the replacement you will find the original a few months later but then be happy that you now have a back-up! happened to me...


----------



## Gordo

Typically buying another is the only way I can find the first one. I have three of several items. sigh...


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

SC600 is now "on sale" at ZL.com; though 6$ off is less "sale" and more the ZL version of Apple's "under construction".

We probably have some Mkiii's coming soon.


----------



## gottawearshades

Good catch. Interesting. . . .



ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> SC600 is now "on sale" at ZL.com; though 6$ off is less "sale" and more the ZL version of Apple's "under construction".
> 
> We probably have some Mkiii's coming soon.


----------



## eraursls1984

The Last time I checked the SC600 MKIII wasn't on the spreadsheet, now it is. It says Cree HI, I'm assuming XP-L HI.


----------



## markr6

eraursls1984 said:


> The Last time I checked the SC600 MKIII wasn't on the spreadsheet, now it is. It says Cree HI, I'm assuming XP-L HI.



They updated that several months ago, but not adding anything since then. Obviously past the ETA...


----------



## LEDeez

I have been looking for a good flashlight for some time and just joined this forum the other day. I liked the SC600 MK II but noticed it has been out for awhile so I emailed zebralight and asked if they had plans to release an updated version anytime soon. They told me the SC 600 MK III would be released next week.


----------



## more_vampires

Still checking ZL's page once a week... hoping, watching, waiting...

The Mk3 shall be mine.


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Still checking ZL's page once a week... hoping, watching, waiting...
> 
> The Mk3 shall be mine.



Same here. I'm 100% satisfied with my SC600w II L2, but a little more throw would be great. I just hope it isn't a "thrower-only" light like my T25C2. That has the XP-L HI as well, and while it's a great light, it's not your everyday general use beam. I'm thinking maybe the SC600 III will have a shallower reflector, making it close to the II with a little more throw.


----------



## snowlover91

LEDeez said:


> I have been looking for a good flashlight for some time and just joined this forum the other day. I liked the SC600 MK II but noticed it has been out for awhile so I emailed zebralight and asked if they had plans to release an updated version anytime soon. They told me the SC 600 MK III would be released next week.



Thanks for posting this info, looking forward to seeing what they bring to the table in the MK III. I'd like to see a little more compact light with XP-L HI and support for 4.35v 18650 would be nice as well. If it could get around 20,000cd that would be a good balance of throw with spill also.


----------



## markr6

SPECS!!!


ModelMSRPBatteryLEDTypical CRINorminal CCTBeam TypeModels w/ Similar Beam ProfileModesANSI OTF Max OutputANSI OTF Low OutputBezel DiameterLengthWeightReleasedNotes(USD)AACR12318650(Kelvin)(Lumens)(hrs)(Lumens)(hrs)(Inch)(Inch)(oz)SC Series Side Clicky FlashlightSC600w Mk III HI951Cree XHP35 HI804500spill + spotSC600 I & II15PID
0.01
6 mo
1.2
3.8
2.35
11/ 2015
SC600w Mk III951Cree XHP35804500spill + spot15PID0.016 mo
1.23.82.3510/ 2015SC600 Mk III951Cree XHP35705700spill + spot15PID0.016 mo1.23.82.3510/ 2015

Not 1, 3 new models!! And 5700K for cool white!!!! I may like that better


----------



## eraursls1984

I wonder what the max is? I would also like to know how the XHP35 HI will throw compared to the XP-L HI.


----------



## emarkd

I'm sure they'll update the max after some testing, which is a system I very much appreciate instead of just guessing and getting it wrong (like others...)

I don't claim to know much about the XHP35 emitters, but I do know that the emitter surface is slightly larger than the XP-L and the per-area intensity is slightly less. Overall output is higher though, XHP35s are like 1500lm emitters, easily, but the XP-L should still outthrow them.


----------



## more_vampires

XHP family is multi-die in one package, throw would be less than XPL HI. Right?


----------



## eraursls1984

more_vampires said:


> XHP family is multi-die in one package, throw would be less than XPL HI. Right?


I believe the 35 is single die, and 70 is a quad die. Still larger than the XP-L, but with upto 50 percent (EDIT:actually I think it can output 37% more?) more output I'd love to see how it compares throw wise. If it throws close to the XP-L, but has a larger hotspot that would be amazing for these little lights.


----------



## more_vampires

Lol, I totally ignored XHP35 and 50, focusing on XHP70. Typical flashaholic, right? Look at the big numbers first?


----------



## twistedraven

Back when I first saw the 'Cree HI' and the new boost driver of the 600 MKIIIs, I brought up the idea of the XHP HI class, but then after dismissed them because of the forward operating voltage. I wonder what Zebralight has done here?

at 65grams, they've shed some weight compared to the previous 80gram models! I wonder if that .2 inches was taken off on the body tube or the head.


----------



## phantom23

eraursls1984 said:


> I believe the 35 is single die, and 70 is a quad die. Still larger than the XP-L, but with upto 50 percent (EDIT:actually I think it can output 37% more?) more output I'd love to see how it compares throw wise. If it throws close to the XP-L, but has a larger hotspot that would be amazing for these little lights.


Incorrect, XHP35 has 4 small dies very close to each other. It has significantly less throw than XP-L.


----------



## snowlover91

Did some more research on the LED's used in the new MK3 and am impressed. The XP-L Hi earlier discussed has a max output of around 1100 lumens per Cree's website while the XHP35 HI used in the new MK3 is rated for 1500 lumens max. It is dedomed and also puts out another 400 lumens when pushed to the max. The binning says it is 3 and 5 step "easywhite" which I'm not sure what that means but sounds interesting. 

The regular XHP35 used in their other models is capable of 1800 lumens max whereas the standard XP-L is rated for 1200 lumens, an increase of about 50%. The die size appears identical from cree's specs so throw and output should be even better than the LED we thought they might use. This is GREAT news and looks to be an excellent thrower based upon specs alone, wouldn't be surprised to see 30k in throw from the HI version.


----------



## phantom23

XHP35 has bigger die (made out of four smaller ones) and needs much more energy than XP-L. I don't think it's a good choice for 1x18650 light. It also has pretty high Vf which means that they need to use pretty inefficient boost circuit.


----------



## snowlover91

phantom23 said:


> Incorrect, XHP35 has 4 small dies very close to each other. It has significantly less throw than XP-L.



Are you sure? Their documentation shows the XHP35 as being one solid die, both in their pic and analysis of the LED structure. The XHP50 is a quad die but the XHP35 doesn't appear to be based on Cree's data. See here, maybe I'm missing something though. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C... Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/ds XHP35.pdf

Perhaps this means they will also enable 2 rcr123 support due to the required higher Vf?


----------



## sidecross

From what I have read on the Cree website these new LED's are advertised more for the lower cost of production and less power consumption. This should mean lower cost to the buyer or consumer.


----------



## eraursls1984

phantom23 said:


> Incorrect, XHP35 has 4 small dies very close to each other. It has significantly less throw than XP-L.


All the pictures and ddocumentation I have found show a larger single die. I could be wrong, I just started looking into this LED, but if so Cree's website has some incorrect information as well. 
Edit: It looks like it may be a quad die without any space between the dies. I'm having a hard time finding more info on this, the only thing I found is on a Chinese website. 


phantom23 said:


> XHP35 has bigger die (made out of four smaller ones) and needs much more energy than XP-L. I don't think it's a good choice for 1x18650 light. It also has pretty high Vf which means that they need to use pretty inefficient boost circuit.


I agree that I XP-L HI would be a better choice. I'd prefer it for the extended runtimes over the XHP35 HI, and potentially more throw. I do think that the XHP35 HD helps differentiate the SC600 from the 62.


snowlover91 said:


> Are you sure? Their documentation shows the XHP35 as being one solid die, both in their pic and analysis of the LED structure. The XHP50 is a quad die but the XHP35 doesn't appear to be based on Cree's data. See here, maybe I'm missing something though. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C... Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/ds XHP35.pdf
> 
> Perhaps this means they will also enable 2 rcr123 support due to the required higher Vf?


That's the same thing I'm finding. The XHP35 is a slightly larger single die and the 50/70 are even larger quad dies. I would be surprised if Zebralight required/enabled 2x18350, and their spread sheet says 1x18650. I'd love 1x18650 and 2xCR123A support with a XP-L HI.


----------



## markr6

I wonder if the SC63 will just be a simple emitter update on the SC62 - XHP35 as well?


----------



## LEDeez

For anyone interested, I also asked Zebralight if a 69mm long 18650 would fit in the SC600MKIII and their response was, "no".


----------



## recDNA

eraursls1984 said:


> All the pictures and ddocumentation I have found show a larger single die. I could be wrong, I just started looking into this LED, but if so Cree's website has some incorrect information as well.
> Edit: It looks like it may be a quad die without any space between the dies. I'm having a hard time finding more info on this, the only thing I found is on a Chinese website.
> 
> I agree that I XP-L HI would be a better choice. I'd prefer it for the extended runtimes over the XHP35 HI, and potentially more throw. I do think that the XHP35 HD helps differentiate the SC600 from the 62.
> 
> That's the same thing I'm finding. The XHP35 is a slightly larger single die and the 50/70 are even larger quad dies. I would be surprised if Zebralight required/enabled 2x18350, and their spread sheet says 1x18650. I'd love 1x18650 and 2xCR123A support with a XP-L HI.



If it does support 2 x CR123A I hope it lowers draw to 1.5 amps. A lot of lights claim to support CR123A these days yet try to draw over 2 amps from them in series. The front battery gets hotter and voltage between the batteries is no longer matched. I think 1.5 amps is plenty to expect from primaries.


----------



## eraursls1984

recDNA said:


> If it does support 2 x CR123A I hope it lowers draw to 1.5 amps. A lot of lights claim to support CR123A these days yet try to draw over 2 amps from them in series. The front battery gets hotter and voltage between the batteries is no longer matched. I think 1.5 amps is plenty to expect from primaries.


I think it would be perfectly fine to disable the higher modes when loaded with CR123As. I highly doubt they will get CR123 support though.


----------



## more_vampires

> The front battery gets hotter and voltage between the batteries is no longer matched.


???
Citation needed?
???


----------



## 18650

markr6 said:


> I wonder if the SC63 will just be a simple emitter update on the SC62 - XHP35 as well?


 I hope not.


----------



## phantom23

eraursls1984 said:


> All the pictures and ddocumentation I have found show a larger single die. I could be wrong, I just started looking into this LED, but if so Cree's website has some incorrect information as well.
> Edit: It looks like it may be a quad die without any space between the dies. I'm having a hard time finding more info on this, the only thing I found is on a Chinese website.


Picture from Cree's datasheet:


----------



## twistedraven

If the XHP is using the Easywhite 'technology' as stated on Cree's datasheet, then they're using 4 different dyes and combining them to produce a very tightly binned emitter.


----------



## geokite

LEDeez said:


> For anyone interested, I also asked Zebralight if a 69mm long 18650 would fit in the SC600MKIII and their response was, "no".



Wow, this is surprising. They couldn't give us another mm for protected cells? Check that off my list...

Steve


----------



## more_vampires

geokite said:


> Wow, this is surprising. They couldn't give us another mm for protected cells? Check that off my list...
> 
> Steve


Can't we cut some spring or something?


----------



## UTV2TiVo

Are Zebralight's own protected cells too long?


----------



## twistedraven

They're not using a rear clicky on their lights, so I don't see why the spring just can't be compressed further than usual. It would make trying to twist the cap on a pain though.


----------



## KeepingItLight

recDNA said:


> The front battery gets hotter and voltage between the batteries is no longer matched.





more_vampires said:


> ???
> Citation needed?
> ???



Will you accept anecdotal reports from selfbuilt?




selfbuilt said:


> Yes, I find it a source of concern to see PTC features kick-in on CR123A cells. I have certainly seen a lot of this over the years in testing (especially common on 4xCR123A lights). Examining the cells, you can sometimes see clear evidence of damage in the wrappers around the PTC. *Invariably, the worse-affected cell is the one closest to the head (where most of the heat is concentrated).*
> 
> It's fundamentally a problem of how heavily-driven lights are now on max, in general (i.e., not specific to Nitecore - or Olight, or ThruNite, etc, etc.). Multi-cell CR123A setups often don't seem suitable for sustained runtimes at max levels - even in lights with thermal regulation (which is designed to protect the circuit, not the battery). But of course, that's based again on made-in-the-USA CR123A calibration levels for PTCs. With made-in-China cells, you would probably almost never see that runtime pattern.
> 
> Ultimately, I would encourage people to use care when considering multi-cell CR123A use on any highly-driven light.
> 
> [_Emphasis added_]


----------



## more_vampires

Ah, thought he was saying the front battery gets hotter due to the circuit. My first thought was "huh?" Yes, the light head gets hotter so the front battery is hotter.

That confusion was mine, sorry.


----------



## recDNA

more_vampires said:


> ???
> Citation needed?
> ???


There is a thread on it here.


----------



## KeepingItLight

I do not know the fact, but it is possible that using an unprotected cell will make it easier to boost the 3.7v of a Li-ion battery up to the 11.3v needed by the *Cree XPH35* emitter. Boost circuits trade low voltage and high current (i.e., their battery input) in order to produce high voltage and low current (i.e., the driver output that is fed to the emitter). It is possible that the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III* will require high-draw batteries (which are generally unprotected) to perform this feat, but that is only my speculation. 

If that is right, it would be driver requirements, rather than a desire for smaller size, that dictated a switch to unprotected batteries.

[_Edited to change XHP35 forward voltage from 11.9v to 11.3v._]


----------



## recDNA

Maybe but there are protected high amp batteries now.

Strangely I know of no high amp draw protected 16340.


----------



## more_vampires

recDNA said:


> Maybe but there are protected high amp batteries now.
> 
> Strangely I know of no high amp draw protected 16340.


Yeah, 16340 seems left behind in the dust lately. I guess most of the R&D is being thrown at 18650, basically the universal lion.

10 amp protected 18650, no big deal. For a hot rod, I like the Sony VTC5. I'm not aware of a factory flashlight using it's full capability.


----------



## KeepingItLight

more_vampires said:


> 10 amp protected 18650, no big deal.



Is that right? I thought, for instance, that a 10A continuous discharge was the maximum for a *Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA*. At that level, you are pushing the battery to its limit. If you check discharge curves for the GA, you will see that 10A is far from the sweet spot for this battery. 

If you routinely want 10A, my guess is that you will be better off using a battery with a 20A max.


----------



## more_vampires

Oh yeah, overhead. I agree. That's why I tend to cut to the chase and just use the Sony VTC5. That way if I get a more awesome light, I don't have to wait for batteries.


----------



## KeepingItLight

As we have already seen in this thread, there are a significant number of customers who will resist a change to unprotected batteries. It makes sense that something more than a piddling 0.2 inches in length is motivating the change.


----------



## eraursls1984

UTV2TiVo said:


> Are Zebralight's own protected cells too long?


They say theirs are 67mm.


----------



## more_vampires

KeepingItLight said:


> As we have already seen in this thread, there are a significant number of customers who will resist a change to unprotected batteries. It makes sense that something more than a piddling 0.2 inches in length is motivating the change.


Think Klarus recently came out with an unprotected only light. It's interesting to see makers start to go the way of the custom and modified enthusiasts.

To get any more gains, they're going to have to start stealing our tricks! 

How long until the first factory solder-wick spring-bypass light?


----------



## KeepingItLight

more_vampires said:


> How long until the first factory solder-wick spring-bypass light?



I'm all for it. No doubt, it will be an innovator like ZebraLight that goes first. 

Here is my new slogan for ZL: _Made by engineers for engineers. Just the good stuff. No glitz.
_
Might not be a catchy marketing line, but it is the way I think about the brand.


----------



## Vol

If unprotected cells are required for increasing voltage they will specify which are best surely.
I just bought two 3400mA olight batteries so that's kind of a bummer. I don't want to loose capacity in a proper unprotected cell.


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Re: ZebraLight plans MKIII's and SC63 release for this year*

All we know so far is that Zebralight is saying unprotected batteries only for the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III*. We don't know that current demands of the boost driver are the reason why. That is only my speculation.

*Cree XHP35* sure sounds interesting, though.


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Think Klarus recently came out with an unprotected only light. It's interesting to see makers start to go the way of the custom and modified enthusiasts.



I like that. Too much 18650/li-ion taboo out there. Much of it is probably our fault, spending hours and hours posting stuff about what might happen, what happened to someone that blew their face off using PoopFire cells which were completely unbalanced in a POSFire light, a fire caused by an 18650 hooked up directly to a car battery, an 18650 thrown into a garbage disposal, an 18650 stomped by a 900lb unicorn with rabies.

Be smart. Don't do stupid stuff. Don't act like a protected battery is so safe because "it's another level of security" or "better safe than sorry. I could sit in my house for the rest of my life saying "roads are dangerous...better safe than sorry" but that is ridiculous to logical people.

If people want to use protected cells, that's fine. It's their choice. But really wanting to use a protected cell in a Zebralight? PPPPFT! Please.


----------



## recDNA

KeepingItLight said:


> All we know so far is that Zebralight is saying unprotected batteries only for the *Zebralight SC600 Mk. III*. We don't know that current demands of the boost driver are the reason why. That is only my speculation.
> 
> *Cree XHP35* sure sounds interesting, though.


If it requires that much current I'll pass. I use unprotected battery in my sc62w but only because it is safer chemistry LiMn AW 18660. I won't use a light pulling more than 3 amps from a 18660. I would prefer multiple NiMH for higher amp demands...like my car does.

I'm not saying it is needlessly dangerous. I just don't need that much power.


----------



## eraursls1984

KeepingItLight said:


> All we know so far is that Zebralight is saying unprotected batteries only for the *Zebralight SC600 Mk. III*. We don't know that current demands of the boost driver are the reason why. That is only my speculation.
> 
> *Cree XHP35* sure sounds interesting, though.


Did they actually say "unprotected only" or are we just inferring based on the short length?


----------



## KeepingItLight

eraursls1984 said:


> Did they actually say "unprotected only" or are we just inferring based on the short length?




I think it was on the ZebraLight spreadsheet for a while. I first read about it in an earlier message in this thread.


----------



## markr6

Yes I remember the "unprotected only" reference in the notes column.


----------



## Overclocker

recDNA said:


> If it requires that much current I'll pass. I use unprotected battery in my sc62w but only because it is safer chemistry LiMn AW 18660. I won't use a light pulling more than 3 amps from a 18660. I would prefer multiple NiMH for higher amp demands...like my car does.
> 
> I'm not saying it is needlessly dangerous. I just don't need that much power.




curious. do you know who actually made that "AW" cell? some mystery chinese "IMR" cell i suppose 

it'll definitely draw some current. the MT-G2 2000 lumen acebeam H10 draws 6.6A

sc62 draws 3.8A


----------



## more_vampires

markr6 said:


> in a POSFire light


Lemme write that down... POSFire... gonna silk screen that on a budget light. Thanks. 



Overclocker said:


> curious. do you know who actually made that "AW" cell? some mystery chinese "IMR" cell i suppose
> it'll definitely draw some current. the MT-G2 2000 lumen acebeam H10 draws 6.6A
> sc62 draws 3.8A


AW? CPFer Andrew Wong? Wonder what he thinks of being counterfeited?


----------



## turkeylord

more_vampires said:


> Can't we cut some spring or something?





twistedraven said:


> They're not using a rear clicky on their lights, so I don't see why the spring just can't be compressed further than usual. It would make trying to twist the cap on a pain though.



Some of their lights aren't getting traditional springs either...



snowlover91 said:


> Next I took a few pictures of the updated tail cap spring design. Instead of one larger spring it now appears as if they've used several small springs with a smooth round disc on the end. I'm not sure why the change but I must say I like it better as these discs are very smooth and do not scratch the bottom of any batteries tested.


----------



## waxing twilight

I know this is slightly skewed from the SC63/SC600 mkIII's, but has anyone heard anything that would lead them to believe/speculate that the regular beam version/op H600( /c/d/w/etc.) might be headed toward the XHP-35 as well? I apologize if I missed a discussion on this elsewhere. I was considering pulling the trigger on a H600 mkII, but thought I should wait and see what the H600 mkIII offers. I'm liking the idea of using diffuser film to smooth out the beam and removing it so I can still have the throw when I need it. I have been watching ZL's site and saw that the H600Fc/d are listed as XM-L2 easywhite, but am otherwise not seeing much difference between the H600Fw mkII and H600Fc mkIII other than the, voltage range, lumens output, and cri etc. There doesn't seem to be increased efficiency or brightness as the zl spreadsheet specifies( was intended?). I thought it might be possible they were still taking a look at working on a revision as someone had speculated in a previous thread if I remember correctly. Thanks if any one has any light to shed on this. oooh, sorry. lol


----------



## snowlover91

waxing twilight said:


> I know this is slightly skewed from the SC63/SC600 mkIII's, but has anyone heard anything that would lead them to believe/speculate that the regular op H600 /c/d/w might be headed this way as well? I apologize if I missed a discussion on this elsewhere. I was considering pulling the trigger on a mkII, but thought I should wait and see what the mkIII offers. I'm liking the idea of using diffuser film to smooth out the beam and removing it so I can still have the throw when I need it. I have been watching ZL's site and saw that the H600Fc/d are listed as XM-L2 easywhite, but am otherwise not seeing much difference between the mkII and mkIII other than the models currently offered, voltage range, output, and cri etc. There doesn't seem to be increased efficiency or brightness as the spreadsheet specifies was intended? I thought it might be possible they were still taking a look at working on a revision as someone had speculated in a previous thread if I remember correctly. Thanks if any one has any light to shed on this. oooh, sorry. lol



I doubt ZL would change their H600 lights so soon. If they did anything they might release one with the option for a XHP35 similar to the MK3 lights, but that's just a guess. The biggest things in the MK3 that will probably be different is higher output and better throw in the HI model. It should be a little shorter and may accept 4.35v 18650 and 2 rcr123 batteries, but that's speculation until official specs come out. I am expecting 1500 lumens out of it though and better throw for sure.


----------



## waxing twilight

Thanks, snowlover91. I forgot about the possibility of dual 123's, would be a nice option in a pinch/power outage. It would be nice to see a H600 version with XHP35/XP-L HI or something, it would be great to have both higher output and longer/similar run times and a bonus of better throw (if/when needed) without sacrificing the spill. 

I think I was a little unclear(edited previous post) that I was specifically wondering about any info/speculation on the H600 mkIII _regular beam_ version which I haven't seen any info on yet. I was wondering if anyone had heard anything as to if ZL was perhaps looking to use the XHP-35, etc., as it appears they are in the case of the SC600 mkIII etc. 

I had been watching the H600Fc/d mkIII's, but reports of runtime inconsistency/falling well short of spec'd(http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...bralight-H600F-c-d-mk3-85cri-and-XM-L-2/page4) had me wondering if the apparent delay with the regular beam version H600 mkIII being released, and ZL's H600Fc/d mkIII specs on their product pages contradicting(as compared to the former H600 mkII versions) stated (intentions?) of higher output, and increased efficiency listed on their product comparison spreadsheet , might have ZL looking in a different direction for the regular beam H600 mkIII. Like perhaps the XHP-35, etc., as is looking like they are planning for the SC600 mkIII's?

Comparing the H600Fw mkII to the H600Fc mkIII both are listed as XM-L2 on the spreadsheet, though the product page states XM-L2 neutral white emitter for the mkII, and XM-L2 easywhite for the mkIII, though the output specs of the mkIII listed on the product pages shows a fairly significant drop from the mkII to mkIII instead of an increase, and combined with the reports of run times well short of specified(17, 8.5, 22/30hr on m2), it seemed there might have been a problem with that configuration. Or perhaps just a bad batch? I am going to post on that thread and see if anyone there has found anything out regarding the possible run time issue.

I could, I suppose, be jumping the gun though and ZL is not planning a regular beam H600 mkIII? Kinda hard to keep track of in this small window, but I hope I am not being redundant, and clarified what I was wondering about some. It seemed by reviewing release dates on the spreadsheet that there should likely be a mention of the regular beam by now if it was planned? Thanks again. Maybe I will try emailing ZL and see what they say.


----------



## Jobeanie123

waxing twilight said:


> Comparing the H600Fw mkII to the H600Fc mkIII both are listed as XM-L2 on the spreadsheet, though the product page states XM-L2 neutral white emitter for the mkII, and XM-L2 easywhite for the mkIII, though the output specs of the mkIII listed on the product pages shows a fairly significant drop from the mkII to mkIII instead of an increase, and combined with the reports of run times well short of specified(17, 8.5, 22/30hr on m2), it seemed there might have been a problem with that configuration. Or perhaps just a bad batch? I am going to post on that thread and see if anyone there has found anything out regarding the possible run time issue.



I emailed Zebralight about this on the 15th and they responded with this: 

*"We found out several weeks ago that some of the H600Fc/d in the very first production batch were loaded with wrong firmware. None of the H600Fc/d shipped after Oct. 8 should have that issue. We got the 30 hour figure from the pre-production batch (aobut [sic] one dozen) in which all H600Fc/d performed just fine." *

So, I guess the answer is that we don't know if they've fixed the issue, but they have claimed to. I'm planning on buying a H600Fd as soon as they're back in stock, and I'd be happy to test the runtime issue with a later batch. However, everyone that has tested their runtime so far got them before the 8th! 

It seems the decrease in light output was a sacrifice for the higher CRI of the Easywhite emitters (~85, versus the ~75 of the old warm). This also explains why they are only available in frosted, as the beam pattern would be less than optimal given a clear lens. I'm curious to see what else they do with the H600 Mk III, but I wouldn't be surprised if they left it at that given the heat sinking limitations of the smaller body.


----------



## 18650

waxing twilight said:


> Comparing the H600Fw mkII to the H600Fc mkIII both are listed as XM-L2 on the spreadsheet, though the product page states XM-L2 neutral white emitter for the mkII, and XM-L2 easywhite for the mkIII, though the output specs of the mkIII listed on the product pages shows a fairly significant drop from the mkII to mkIII instead of an increase, and combined with the reports of run times well short of specified(17, 8.5, 22/30hr on m2), it seemed there might have been a problem with that configuration. Or perhaps just a bad batch?


 The output drop is to be expected. You lose A LOT to gain 10-15 points of CRI.


----------



## markr6

18650 said:


> The output drop is to be expected. You lose A LOT to gain 10-15 points of CRI.



I like high CRI in general, but I agree the loss is too much even for me.

I like the "w" vesions for +10 CRI but more importantly, a much better CCT and tint.


----------



## waxing twilight

Ahh, excellent. Thank you all. I guess that's what I get for doing dreary eyed browsing instead of sleeping- that I forget to "carry the 1" and "cross my t" in the way of reduction from CRI increase


> Can't compare apples to oranges. The XML2 Easywhite in the new H600s probably aren't as efficient as to regular XML2s, especially since they're having to boost the voltage to run them.


, quad die beam irregularities,


> It seems the decrease in light output was a sacrifice for the higher CRI of the Easywhite emitters (~85, versus the ~75 of the old warm). This also explains why they are only available in frosted, as the beam pattern would be less than optimal given a clear lens. I'm curious to see what else they do with the H600 Mk III, but I wouldn't be surprised if they left it at that given the heat sinking limitations of the smaller body.


additional heat from increased voltage, ...


> I emailed Zebralight about this on the 15th and they responded with this:
> 
> *"We found out several weeks ago that some of the H600Fc/d in the very first production batch were loaded with wrong firmware. None of the H600Fc/d shipped after Oct. 8 should have that issue. We got the 30 hour figure from the pre-production batch (aobut [sic] one dozen) in which all H600Fc/d performed just fine." *
> 
> So, I guess the answer is that we don't know if they've fixed the issue, but they have claimed to. I'm planning on buying a H600Fd as soon as they're back in stock, and I'd be happy to test the runtime issue with a later batch. However, everyone that has tested their runtime so far got them before the 8th!


The firmware error would seem to explain the smattering of early reports with an apparent falloff. Hopefully everything is well now. I am interested in seeing what they end up doing as well. I guess I will have to bite the bullet and wait a little longer to see what an upgrade to my H51w looks like, lol.:sweat:


> I like high CRI in general, but I agree the loss is too much even for me.
> 
> I like the "w" vesions for +10 CRI but more importantly, a much better CCT and tint


I second that sentiment. 
Kinda leaning toward a mkII h600w, I think I would rather take the longer run time/lumen for the increase in CRI.


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Mode**H600Fw Mk. II*
CRI 75*H600Fc Mk. III*
CRI 85*H600Fd Mk. III*
CRI 85H11020 lm800 lm870 lmH2620
330
150515
234
107560
255
117M1655762M230
1124
8.326
9L13.52.42.6L20.4
0.06
0.010.33
0.05
0.010.36
0.05
0.01


For what it's worth, I am planning to buy the *ZebraLight H600Fd*. The only real concern for me is H1, but that is a mode I will use only occasionally. The other modes are fine by me.


----------



## Flashy808

The current ZL SC600 MKII just went on sale on ZL's official website. Should we be expecting the MKIII soon because they're clearing out the old stock??


Sorry if this has already been pointed out, haven't been following along too much in this thread.


----------



## moozooh

Yeah, it's been mentioned in the Mk. II thread a couple times. And yes the Mk. III is soon because it's on their site already.


----------



## TCY

Wow they must've updated it in the past 3 hours. Glad they've managed to reduce the body weight to 66 grams.


----------



## moozooh

Don't forget to count the battery. It's a total weight reduction of just under 10%.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Can you show your math, moozooh?


----------



## Jobeanie123

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Can you show your math, moozooh?



I can show the math: 

Mk II = 2.8 oz = ~79 grams 
Mk III = 2.35 oz = ~66 grams

Battery = ~45 grams

Mk II with battery = 124 grams 
Mk III with battery = 111 grams

90% of 124 grams is 111.6 grams. Alternatively, 10% of 124 is 12.4, and 124 - 12.4 = 111.6 grams. Either way, we still come to the conclusion that it's just under a 10% weight reduction, battery included.


----------



## phantom23

Weight reduction i not a good thing. It has brighter and hotter emitter and less mass means worse heat dissipation.


----------



## markr6

I like the new look of it!


----------



## Overclocker

phantom23 said:


> Weight reduction i not a good thing. It has brighter and hotter emitter and less mass means worse heat dissipation.



it has less thermal mass. but probably has better heat dissipation due to larger surface area


----------



## phantom23

But less mass to disipate more heat to means that it's going to get hot (and reduce brightness) much quicker.


----------



## markr6

phantom23 said:


> But less mass to disipate more heat to means that it's going to get hot (and reduce brightness) much quicker.



The SC600 always performed well. I hope it's at least close to that. If it's a 60-second hand warmer like the SC62, I'll be disappointed.


----------



## Overclocker

phantom23 said:


> But less mass to disipate more heat to means that it's going to get hot (and reduce brightness) much quicker.




mass doesn't dissipate heat. it just "soaks it up"

but yes it'll heat up a bit quicker. nothing to lose sleep over. i for one welcome the change to a lighter weight, maybe it's now EDC-able


----------



## markr6

Overclocker said:


> mass doesn't dissipate heat. it just "soaks it up"
> 
> but yes it'll heat up a bit quicker. nothing to lose sleep over. i for one welcome the change to a lighter weight, maybe it's now EDC-able



That's what I'm thinking. That big fat hex head really made it too much for me. But I admit it, I'm a wuss when it comes to EDC - they all annoy me in a pocket.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

But 30mm is still 30mm.


----------



## phantom23

markr6 said:


> The SC600 always performed well. I hope it's at least close to that. If it's a 60-second hand warmer like the SC62, I'll be disappointed.


SC600 is heavier and it has less powerful (and less hot) emitter.


Overclocker said:


> but *yes it'll heat up a bit quicker*. nothing to lose sleep over. i for one welcome the change to a lighter weight, maybe it's now EDC-able


That's the point. It'll heat up quite a bit quicker (not only because of lower weight but also XHP emitter which produces more heat) which means that PID is going to kick in much earlier.


----------



## Jobeanie123

markr6 said:


> If it's a 60-second hand warmer like the SC62, I'll be disappointed.



I imagine it will be. It's a little bit more wattage than the Mk II, and it has a little bit more surface area to make up for it. 

It's funny; this time of year, I absolutely love my SC62 for that very reason. I can go outside and always have a way to keep my hands warm. No handwarmer I've used has made nearly as much heat as this thing! I always have disposable warmers standing by in my jacket, but for shorter bursts of heat, the SC62 is way to go. I'm curious to see if the fins on the Mk III are enough to outperform the Mk II – something tells me probably not. I hold my light by the head, anyway, and become a heatsink myself! Until I start to get burned by it, that is.


----------



## twistedraven

It'll heat up quicker to your hand, not to the LED. The heat is always being drawn away from the LED and out into the air or other physical objects touching it. What really matters in ultimately dissipating the heat is the surface area-- of which the heat sink cooling fins are meant for expanding.


----------



## Jobeanie123

phantom23 said:


> It'll heat up quite a bit quicker (not only because of lower weight but also XHP emitter which produces more heat) which means that PID is going to kick in much earlier.



I wonder _where _they removed the weight. With a battery, the weight savings is just under 10% – about 12 grams, or the weight of a standard AAA battery. Taking the new fins into account, that 10% of thermal mass may not make as much as a difference as it seems, especially if the weight savings came from the body/tail. It's more likely that most of the weight savings are at the new head, though. I think the new emitter is going to be the deciding factor in when PID kicks in. At comparable brightness levels to the Mk II, though, the Mk III should outperform with both more lumens per watt and more surface area.


----------



## newbie66

Sounds like high drain 18650s are the way to go for best max lumens.


----------



## KeepingItLight

newbie66 said:


> Sounds like high drain 18650s are the way to go for best max lumens.




That's what I have been speculating. We'll know more soon enough. I can't wait until someone measures the battery current on one of these. My suspicion is that it will be high current draw, rather than a desire to save the size of protection circuit that dictated a change to an unprotected battery.


----------



## Overclocker

KeepingItLight said:


> That's what I have been speculating. We'll know more soon enough. I can't wait until someone measures the battery current on one of these. My suspicion is that it will be high current draw, rather than a desire to save the size of protection circuit that dictated a change to an unprotected battery.



acebeam's 2000-lumen H10 draws 6.6A

the mk3 should be drawing at least 5.0A. that's about 30% more than the 3.8A of the mk2

5A is no problem for cells like NCR18650BE, NCR18650GA, etc. basically any 10A-rated cell


----------



## KeepingItLight

Overclocker said:


> acebeam's 2000-lumen H10 draws 6.6A
> 
> the mk3 should be drawing at least 5.0A. that's about 30% more than the 3.8A of the mk2
> 
> 5A is no problem for cells like NCR18650BE, NCR18650GA, etc. basically any 10A-rated cell



Lumens probably do not tell the whole story.

Presumably, the *Acebeam H10* uses the 6v version of the *Cree MT-G2*. The *Cree XHP35* emitter used by the *ZebraLight SC600w Mk. III* requires 11.3v. I am no expert, but I would think that a boost from 3.7v to 6v is less demanding that a boost from 3.7v up to 11.3v. The smaller boost is probably more efficient as well. 

Nevertheless, I think your amperage estimates are in the right ballpark. Without necessarily disagreeing with you, I am still guessing—yes! merely guessing!—that there is a technical reason that ZL has made the switch to an unprotected battery. 

In this thread already, we have seen a number of loyal customers who are skeptical of that change. Some of them will look elsewhere for their next flashlight purchase. It does not make sense that ZL would risk the goodwill of its customers in order to save a piddling couple of millimeters of size. I think the change has to do with electronics.

[_Edited to change XHP35 forward voltage from 11.9v to 11.3v._]


----------



## markr6

I'll tell you one thing...I won't be selling my SC600w II L2! Mainly because of the perfect neutral/coolish tint. But it's a solid performer I don't really see a need to improve on.

But after seeing some (positive) feedback on the mk III, I get one. Or the HI version. Not sure yet. Not pre-ordering this time.


----------



## Overclocker

KeepingItLight said:


> Lumens probably do not tell the whole story.
> 
> Presumably, the *Acebeam H10* uses the 6v version of the *Cree MT-G2*. The *Cree XHP35* emitter used by the *ZebraLight SC600w Mk. III* requires 11.9v. I am no expert, but I would think that a boost from 3.7v to 6v is less demanding that a boost from 3.7v up to 12v. The smaller boost is probably more efficient as well.
> 
> Nevertheless, I think your amperage estimates are in the right ballpark. Without necessarily disagreeing with you, I am still guessing—yes! merely guessing!—that there is a technical reason that ZL has made the switch to an unprotected battery.
> 
> In this thread already, we have seen a number of loyal customers who are skeptical of that change. Some of them will look elsewhere for their next flashlight purchase. It does make sense that ZL would risk the goodwill of its customers in order to save a piddling couple of millimeters of size. I think the change has to do with electronics.






Overclocker said:


> the 65mm requirement is probably:
> 
> 1) so people don't run into problems w/ the protection tripping
> 
> 2) so no voltage drop from protection circuit (no runtime hit)
> 
> 3) not have to design for the various lengths of protected cells. if the tailcap contact is anything like the sc5's then it doesn't have much travel




some of my speculations on the other thread. yeah i don't think they're doing it for size reasons. in which case some changes are inevitable. the bare cell requirement IMHO isn't unreasonable.


----------



## snowlover91

I think I'll wait for the HI version of this light to be released later this month. The regular version will probably have similar throw to previous models but the HI emitter may give a nice boost to the throw. I'll wait to see what the lumens and throw looks like for that one. Has the potential to be a great compact EDC thrower at less than 4" long.


----------



## more_vampires

Gentlemen, start your credit cards!

http://www.zebralight.com/SC600-Mk-III-18650-XHP35-Flashlight-Cool-White_p_174.html


> *Pre-order. Shipping starts on Nov 30, 2015. Final output levels and runtimes to be released on Nov 7. *


WOOOOO!


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Gentlemen, start your credit cards!
> 
> http://www.zebralight.com/SC600-Mk-III-18650-XHP35-Flashlight-Cool-White_p_174.html
> 
> WOOOOO!




Waaay too late to the party  No worries, I did the same thing yesterday! moozooh was on it quick


----------



## more_vampires

Heh! I don't care who got firsties, just that it's there! 

Saw that this morning, ran right here.  Shoulda known CPF would beat me to it.


----------



## markr6

They're really teasing us now; pre-order available before any of the real specs are even published!


----------



## more_vampires

Lol, mark, they're just checking how many of us will buy the new model regardless. 

Kind of a good idea from a marketing information standpoint.

"Ok guys, you're not going to believe this. Over 50k people pre-ordered without real specs. The "referrer" flag from all of their web browsers says candlepowerforums.com. Is this a coincidence?"


----------



## seasam

markr6 said:


> They're really teasing us now; pre-order available before any of the real specs are even published!



I pre-ordered one for fun. Can't get any worse than the Manker BLF A6


----------



## holygeez03

Can someone remind me XHP35 is all about? Is it just a more powerful/efficient XM-L? Is it floody?

Also, as much as I love the deep-carry removable ZL clips on my H lights... it seems like an odd choice for a larger light like the SC600?

Are we assuming that the specs will blow away the SC62?


----------



## KeepingItLight

Overclocker said:


> some of my speculations on the other thread. yeah i don't think they're doing it for size reasons. in which case some changes are inevitable. the bare cell requirement IMHO isn't unreasonable.




The primary reason for the new tail-cap contacts is probably higher current. Reduced length is merely a byproduct.


----------



## KeepingItLight

holygeez03 said:


> Can someone remind me XHP35 is all about? Is it just a more powerful/efficient XM-L? Is it floody?
> 
> Also, as much as I love the deep-carry removable ZL clips on my H lights... it seems like an odd choice for a larger light like the SC600?
> 
> Are we assuming that the specs will blow away the SC62?




 XHP35 discussion thread at CPF

XHP35 datasheet at Cree


----------



## twistedraven

I'm actually torn on rather I want the cool white or warm white. The cool white variant is the exact perfect CCT to emulate sunlight, while the warm white is about as low as I'd want before the light starts not looking white, however it would probably be a safer choice because we don't know how the XHP35 @5700k really looks.


----------



## Arctonaut

Any word on the SC63? I'm about to pull the trigger on a SC62w, but I don't want to jump the gun... Then again, there's something to say for the time tested model...


----------



## Overclocker

KeepingItLight said:


> Reduced length is merely a byproduct.



nope. the fixed-length requirement should be because of the short travel "pins" like on the sc5

of course this is all just speculation


----------



## emarkd

I have no info to share with you on the SC63, but the SC62 is seriously good. Other than the remorse of not having the latest model (if you're that sort of person) I can't imagine you being very disappointed with it. 

Personally I'm sure I'll be buying an SC63, but my SC62w isn't going anywhere.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> I'm actually torn on rather I want the cool white or warm white. The cool white variant is the exact perfect CCT to emulate sunlight, while the warm white is about as low as I'd want before the light starts not looking white, however it would probably be a safer choice because we don't know how the XHP35 @5700k really looks.



EXACTLY my thoughts. 5700K on paper sounds pretty good, but who knows what this thing will look like. Either 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D. If I end up getting one before reviews, I would probably go with the 4500K. Much better than the days of 4200K vs 6300K...I don't want either!


----------



## Arctonaut

emarkd said:


> I have no info to share with you on the SC63, but the SC62 is seriously good. Other than the remorse of not having the latest model (if you're that sort of person) I can't imagine you being very disappointed with it.
> 
> Personally I'm sure I'll be buying an SC63, but my SC62w isn't going anywhere.



You... I like you and your "why not both?" style...


----------



## KeepingItLight

Overclocker said:


> nope. the fixed-length requirement should be because of the short travel "pins" like on the sc5
> 
> of course this is all just speculation




But why not use a spring? My guess: higher current demands. Only after you decide to use pins does their size become an issue.


----------



## markr6

I just now noticed the reversible clip. I'll probably just leave it bezel-down like the mk II.


----------



## more_vampires

KeepingItLight said:


> But why not use a spring? My guess: higher current demands. Only after you decide to use pins does their size become an issue.


On different battery contact methods, I just ran across this:
http://www.battery-contacts.com/instaload.php

"InstaLoad" by Microsoft (of all things.) It's their attempt at preventing the user from installing the battery the wrong way.

Not that the M43 uses this, but I suppose it could and fix this whole spring situation.


----------



## eraursls1984

KeepingItLight said:


> But why not use a spring? My guess: higher current demands. Only after you decide to use pins does their size become an issue.


Battery size has been an issue with Zebralight since I first started looking into the SC62w. It does fit protected cells, but it's very picky. It will not fit my protected cells. It may be even more limited now, but it's been an issue with some of their lights for years.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Now that ZebraLight is using pins instead of springs in the tail caps of some of its models, we may (or may not) see a general switch away from tail-cap springs. It is telling, however, that the first models to use pins were the SC5 and now the SC600 Mk. III.

Both of those placed higher current demands their respective batteries than earlier ZebraLight models ever did. I do not know the fact, but my guess is that higher current demands, rather than an interest to reduce size, first triggered the switch to pins.

I don't know how you feel about it, but for me, the best thing about the pins is the lower resistance they have compared a spring. Lower resistance means more voltage available for the driver. 

Overclocker estimates the Mk. III will be pulling 5+ amps. At that level, you are getting into territory where the resistance of a spring matters.


----------



## more_vampires

Are the pins solid? If they move, wouldn't they have springs of their own as well?


----------



## sdr

It's already starting to look like an old familiar "Pre-order" story. This is the reply that I received to an inquiry I had made last week. For anyone who missed my post in the other (HI) thread I will post it in its entirety here:


User/DateMessage*Customer*
10/29/2015 2:25:45 AMHI,

How soon do you expect to have the new SC600 MKIII available for purchase? I am so anxious to get my hands on one!

Cheers!

Ron




*Staff (Administrator)*
10/30/2015 9:58:59 AMPre-order starts in about one week.



*Customer*
10/30/2015 2:19:36 PMThanks for this response. Preorder, however? How does that translate to actually having one in my hands? Bottom line: How soon will the Mk III be available? Please understand, in the past, I have been involved in "pre-orders" that tied up my money and my expectations for many months. This is why I am pressing for an actual release date. How soon before these lights will start shipping? That's the question.



*Staff (Administrator)*
11/2/2015 12:02:33 PMCurrent plan is to start shipping international orders on Nov 30 and shipping U.S. orders about 10 days after that (because we have to wait for the shipment from our factory in China to our facility in Irving, TX). However, with the pre-orders we've received so far, we may not be able to fill all U.S. pre-orders with the first shipment we expect to receive.



Regardless, I placed my order and plunked my money down on Saturday night, just as soon as I became aware of the "Pre-order" becoming available. I ordered a cool white version because I doubt that the Mk III will be significantly better than the neutral (w) Mk II variant that I already own. I also have a cool white Mk II and ZL knocked it out of the park with the cool white Mk II. Especially when you compare it to the original SC600 cool white, which was atrocious IMO. Besides, I like cool white!

But, back to the "Pre-order" situation. It's starting to become a familiar refrain. What I assumed would be 30 days when I ordered one on Saturday night, has now become 40 days by virtue of me living in the USA. So now, instead of Nov. 30, if all things go perfectly, it will be Dec. 10 at the earliest before I can expect my new Mk. III to start it's trek toward me. The caveat being, "if all things go _PERFECTLY_." And I think we all know the chances of that happening...slim and none! *sigh* Here we go again.


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Are the pins solid? If they move, wouldn't they have springs of their own as well?



I'm guessing there are tiny springs in there. The pins move a little, I would say 0.5mm if that? Now that I look at mine, two of the pins move much less than the other five. One actually looks like it is compressed all the way; not quite stuck, just not much movement.


----------



## more_vampires

> The caveat being, "if all things go _PERFECTLY_." And I think we all know the chances of that happening...slim and none! *sigh* Here we go again.



Cheer up! As first in line, we get the defective first run problems that later buyers wont see! 

It's going to be awesome!


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Cheer up! As first in line, we get the defective first run problems that later buyers wont see!
> 
> It's going to be awesome!



HAHA I've been lucky with pre-orders in the past, but I have a feeling about this one. Definitely going to wait it out, as hard as that is!


----------



## scs

sdr said:


> But, back to the "Pre-order" situation. It's starting to become a familiar refrain. What I assumed would be 30 days when I ordered one on Saturday night, has now become 40 days by virtue of me living in the USA. So now, instead of Nov. 30, if all things go perfectly, it will be Dec. 10 at the earliest before I can expect my new Mk. III to start it's trek toward me. The caveat being, "if all things go _PERFECTLY_." And I think we all know the chances of that happening...slim and none! *sigh* Here we go again.



Got you on a string, man. Regain some control.


----------



## KeepingItLight

selfbuilt said:


>





more_vampires said:


> Are the pins solid? If they move, wouldn't they have springs of their own as well?



While I do not know the specifics of the ZebraLight design, I can offer these observations. 


The contact area between a battery and spring is physically smaller than the contact area of the pins. 
If springs are used under the pins, they are shorter than a normal tail-cap spring. Shorter means less resistance to current flow. 
If springs are used under the pins, they are probably soldered to the caps, giving a good connection. 
When a single spring is used, all current must flow through that spring. At high currents, the spring will heat up. As temperature rises, so does the resistance of the spring. 
When seven pins are used, the current is divided into seven parts. This alone reduces resistance. 
In addition, because current is divided into seven parts, each pin will see less current. That means it will heat up less. Less heat means lower resistance.
Even if there are springs beneath the pins, that does not necessarily mean the spring will be the primary conduction path in the pin.


----------



## sdr

scs said:


> Got you on a string, man. Regain some control.







Ha! I can barely handle the stress of waiting 15 minutes for a pizza. A month or two of anxious anticipation will no doubt cause a serious meltdown! Here is my response to Zebralight after their most recent response to me...


*Customer*
11/2/2015 1:51:19 PMThanks, again, for your response. I pre-ordered a cool white Mk III on Saturday night (Oct. 31). Hopefully I will be in that first U.S. shipment! (He said, with fingers crossed) 

Keep up the good work, Zebralight! This will be my 4th SC600 variant and I am really excited now that I have seen what it will look like. You've made some interesting changes to the exterior, I can only imagine what you've done with the "interior?" I guess I'll just have to wait, won't I! By Christmas, maybe...???

I really am excited and anxious to get my hands on this bad boy. I love the new look! And, yes! Those of us who (hopefully) get those first ones will also get the "bugs" that will be ironed out later. But, hey! I consider that to be a bonus. So, hurry up, Zebralight! Get that Mk III to me before Christmas...Ho! Ho! Ho!


----------



## markr6

Oh I need to stop coming here!!! I have a $190 total in my cart at zebralight.com  (buying NW and CW and hopefully selling the one I like the least)

I go there every few hours, look at it, then close it. Still trying to hold off!


----------



## more_vampires

markr6 said:


> Oh I need to stop coming here!!! I have a $190 total in my cart at zebralight.com  (buying NW and CW and hopefully selling the one I like the least)
> 
> I go there every few hours, look at it, then close it. Still trying to hold off!


Man, you've got it bad, Mark! Hooked on the Zebracrack! 

I'm placing another order too. Welcome to the addicts support group! 

We can quit anytime we want to, we just don't want to yet.


----------



## mikeymoto

In case you're wondering still, ZL confirmed on the phone with me that their button top 18650 is too tall for the Mk III. We may see them sell some Panasonic unprotected cells.


----------



## markr6

mikeymoto said:


> In case you're wondering still, ZL confirmed on the phone with me that their button top 18650 is too tall for the Mk III. We may see them sell some Panasonic unprotected cells.



Good info, thanks! So they better update the ZL634 battery page soon or else they'll have some unhappy customers:

"Protected 18650 Li-ion rechargeable battery with Panasonic 3400mAh NCR18650B/BF cell. Diameter: 18.3mm. Length: 67mm. *Fits all ZebraLight 18650 flashlights or headlamps."*


----------



## Jobeanie123

mikeymoto said:


> In case you're wondering still, ZL confirmed on the phone with me that their button top 18650 is too tall for the Mk III. We may see them sell some Panasonic unprotected cells.



Glad to finally see some actual confirmation. I put LG MJ1 cells in my Zebralight, and they perform admirably. Illumn has them for cheaper than NCR18650Bs, and their capacity / max discharge (10A) is a bit better as well. In fact, official specs say you shouldn't discharge NCR18650Bs above 5a. I don't know how their curve looks, but hopefully in lights with boost drivers, they perform a bit better. Zebralight's 18650s are pretty short for protected anyway, at 67mm. I really do hope that dropping protected cell support was for current reasons and not to save a few millimeters.


----------



## more_vampires

markr6 said:


> Good info, thanks! So they better update the ZL634 battery page soon or else they'll have some unhappy customers:
> 
> "Protected 18650 Li-ion rechargeable battery with Panasonic 3400mAh NCR18650B/BF cell. Diameter: 18.3mm. Length: 67mm. *Fits all ZebraLight 18650 flashlights or headlamps."*


Hmmm. There's something odd about this, can't quite put my finger on it...


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Hmmm. There's something odd about this, can't quite put my finger on it...



I'm sure they just didn't update it. It's easy to overlook these things, even on fairly small websites.

I wonder if unprotected, button top cells will fit. That's all I buy. I'm guessing they are about 66mm? No big deal though.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> Oh I need to stop coming here!!! I have a $190 total in my cart at zebralight.com  (buying NW and CW and hopefully selling the one I like the least)
> 
> I go there every few hours, look at it, then close it. Still trying to hold off!




Wait till they publish the lumen numbers that might push you over the edge lol! I'm waiting to see the XHP35 HI version results as that's the one that really interests me. Sounds like they have a lot of demand for these new lights. The 4.35v support is great also.


----------



## UTV2TiVo

I've had good luck with Zebralight pre-orders in the past as well. Both in terms of quality and speed of delivery.


----------



## holygeez03

Is it confirmed that there will be a SC600w III with the HI emitter? I wonder what the color temp will be... I believe there is a temp shift with the de-dome... most get warmer, some get greener...


----------



## emarkd

There is usually a tint shift with dedoming, but the XP-L HI isn't a dedomed emitter. It's a flat-dome emitter. It's got a covering like normal except it's flat. So there's no tint issues and you still get the increased intensity. It's a good emitter for a throwier light.


----------



## Jobeanie123

holygeez03 said:


> Is it confirmed that there will be a SC600w III with the HI emitter? I wonder what the color temp will be... I believe there is a temp shift with the de-dome... most get warmer, some get greener...



Zebralight's product comparison spreadsheet lists an SC600 Mk III HI, yes. They also said to someone here a few days ago that they wanted to start pre-orders about a week after the non-HI lights. I hope they actually optimize the reflector for it, rather than doing what Armytek did and throwing the HI emitters in old reflectors, causing beam artifacts. Maybe that's why it's taking a little longer. We'll see soon enough! 

I won't answer the tint question since emarkd already did.


----------



## holygeez03

A SC600w MKIII HI with a specifically designed reflector would be very interesting.


----------



## Glenn7

Got my tracking number today yay


----------



## markr6

Glenn7 said:


> Got my tracking number today yay



Ahh you non-US guys are lucky with those early orders!


----------



## more_vampires

markr6 said:


> Ahh you non-US guys are lucky with those early orders!


We need to invoke the French Connection and have Gene Hackman drive unsafely to deliver us our lights.


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> We need to invoke the French Connection and have Gene Hackman drive unsafely to deliver us our lights.



Yes! OK sorry for being OT, but AWESOME movie reference!! One of the best car chase scenes IMO. No, it doesn't have F16's shooting missiles and people jumping motorcycles off buildings through walls of fire, but isn't everyone tired of that crap? You have to appreciate a REAL movie now and then. If you haven't seen it, go watch it! Why? Roy Scheider, Gene Hackman...that's why!


----------



## more_vampires

> No, it doesn't have F16's shooting missiles and people jumping motorcycles off buildings through walls of fire


These are also acceptable means of flashlight delivery from Zebralight. 

Would definitely pay extra for that.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> Ahh you non-US guys are lucky with those early orders!



I remember just recently when I preordered the SC5fd and you preordered another of their lights, can't remember which one, but yours was scheduled way after mine for the release date and you got it 2-3 weeks early! You should have preordered so you could have that happen again haha.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> I remember just recently when I preordered the SC5fd and you preordered another of their lights, can't remember which one, but yours was scheduled way after mine for the release date and you got it 2-3 weeks early! You should have preordered so you could have that happen again haha.



You just read my mind  It was the SC5w OP, and man was that early!

Still trying to hold off...


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> You just read my mind  It was the SC5w OP, and man was that early!
> 
> Still trying to hold off...



Once they announce output levels it'll all be over and you'll have to give in! I'm trying to wait on preordering the HI version till after some reviews come out for it but that's going to be quite difficult. Zebralight is just releasing too many good lights back to back! I do hope this one uses the tail cap pins like the SC5 series. It will help with high current draw and the thing I love is it doesn't scratch up the end of the battery at all, it's also far easier to screw on when changing out batteries due to this design. Trying to wait... Zebralight is probably laughing at us and saying to themselves "wait till we release those output numbers" lol. If they pull 1500-1800 lumens from these lights with PID I'll be impressed and forced to order at least one..


----------



## turkeylord

holygeez03 said:


> A SC600w MKIII HI with a specifically designed reflector would be very interesting.


+1 Would love a little thrower.


----------



## waxing twilight

For anyone interested in the "official" word on future H600 series MkIII's, I just received this response from Zebralight yesterday, sorry for the delay.

"We will release H600(w) Mk III, with XHP35, in 3-4 months."

:twothumbs


----------



## markr6

waxing twilight said:


> For anyone interested in the "official" word on future H600 series MkIII's, I just received this response from Zebralight yesterday, sorry for the delay.
> 
> "We will release H600(w) Mk III, with XHP35, in 3-4 months."
> 
> :twothumbs



Woah, I kind of forgot about the H600! Nice! I hope these emitters don't suck.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Oh, man! I thought I wanted the *ZebraLight H600Fd*. The frosted lens and 870-lumen capability are perfect for the way I use a headlamp. Hearing about this, though, I think I may _need_ a 1500-lumen *Cree XHP35*. 

Okay, maybe I just _want_ one.


----------



## sdr

This sounds encouraging. It just came straight from the source:


*Customer*
11/2/2015 1:51:19 PMThanks, again, for your response. I pre-ordered a cool white Mk III on Saturday night (Oct. 30). Hopefully I will be in that first U.S. shipment! (He said, with fingers crossed) 

Keep up the good work, Zebralight! This will be my 4th SC600 variant and I am really excited now that I have seen what it will look like. You've made some interesting changes to the exterior, I can only imagine what you've done with the "interior?" I guess I'll just have to wait, won't I! By Christmas, maybe...???




*Staff (Administrator)*
11/3/2015 7:30:03 PMThank you very much for your business. Looks like we should be able to fill your order from the very first shipment before early December.

I placed my order last Saturday night just as soon as the pre-order became available (as seen above). I would be curious to know how large they're expecting their first shipment to the U.S. to be? In any event, the email containing this information sounded encouraging. Hence my update...(I'm going thru ZL withdrawal ~ I need my new light!)...I'm hanging on anything. Even news that it's _ONLY_ a month away sounds good to me.


----------



## fnsooner

You guys are killing me. I haven’t been this giddy about a flashlight since the original SC600 was available. I was one of the first ones to preorder and receive one. I also remember all the funky switch problems we all had too. I will be living vicariously through you early adopters. We want to know everything.


----------



## markr6

*SC600 mk III and SC600w mk III ordered*! WTF is my problem?!?!?

So much for waiting for reviews :shakehead

Like I mentioned before, I'll try both and keep the temp I prefer. With the narrower gap of 4500K vs 5700K now, who knows?? I have to see for myself. And even though ZL accepts returns, I'm not feeling so great about returning a "used" light anymore, even if it's just used for 20 seconds to compare. So, this is my official pre-pre-pre-sale teaser  I'll price it right in the marketplace if I go that route; my loss is your gain!

Still a little worried about ordering so early and before the specs are up...fingers crossed!


----------



## snowlover91

I knew it was only a matter of time! I'm waiting for the HI version so when it goes live my wallet is going to be in trouble. It sounds like ZL is getting a lot of preorders for these since they expect several waves of initial shipments and not enough in the first shipment to fulfill all the preorders. I know you'll be checking your email multiple times a day waiting for that shipment notification..


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> I knew it was only a matter of time! I'm waiting for the HI version so when it goes live my wallet is going to be in trouble. It sounds like ZL is getting a lot of preorders for these since they expect several waves of initial shipments and not enough in the first shipment to fulfill all the preorders. I know you'll be checking your email multiple times a day waiting for that shipment notification..



I'm waiting for an early shipment notification by this Friday!


----------



## snowlover91

Now that you're expecting it you'll probably have to wait! Did you get both the CW and NW versions? What will you do when the HI model comes out lol?


----------



## turkeylord

waxing twilight said:


> For anyone interested in the "official" word on future H600 series MkIII's, I just received this response from Zebralight yesterday, sorry for the delay.
> 
> "We will release H600(w) Mk III, with XHP35, in 3-4 months."
> 
> :twothumbs


That's awesome. I love my H600w and H602w. The angled head makes these so dang useful as an edc light, not to mention their intended headlamp use.


----------



## recDNA

Did we ever get specs on xpl hi model?


----------



## emarkd

recDNA said:


> Did we ever get specs on xpl hi model?



We don't even really have specs on the xpl hd models yet


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Did we ever get specs on xpl hi model?



The Hi model should be announced next week, not sure if stats will come then or not. Should get specs for the regular models by this Saturday. Waiting is the hard part. I imagine this light will pull a lot of current which is why they probably don't include cr123 support. It's estimated this light could pull 5-6 amps on turbo which would certainly be too much until tech advances for those battery types.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> Now that you're expecting it you'll probably have to wait! Did you get both the CW and NW versions? What will you do when the HI model comes out lol?



Yeah I ordered both to see which temp I like better. That XP-L HI will be tempting as well! I better scratch up another $95...crazyness!


----------



## KeepingItLight

markr6 said:


> Yeah I ordered both to see which temp I like better. That XP-L HI will be tempting as well! I better scratch up another $95...crazyness!



Not crazy, just experienced. 

If you ever decide to become a flashlight reviewer, we will all benefit from the oodles of lights that you have actually owned and used.


----------



## markr6

KeepingItLight said:


> Not crazy, just experienced.
> 
> If you ever decide to become a flashlight reviewer, we will all benefit from the oodles of lights that you have actually owned and used.



No time, no equipment  Most reviews would probably just be me complaining about tint :laughing:

I do try to get some beamshots when I fell they're relevant, though.


----------



## more_vampires

Mark, we need to get you an integrating sphere!

BTW: I just did a quick web search. TintSnob.com is available!  It isn't even a parked domain!


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Mark, we need to get you an integrating sphere!
> 
> BTW: I just did a quick web search. TintSnob.com is available!  It isn't even a parked domain!



I don't know, if people are bad typists like myself, it would be awfully easy to miss that first "n" key. I'm not going to even try and see where that goes


----------



## Gordo

markr6 said:


> I don't know, if people are bad typists like myself, it would be awfully easy to miss that first "n" key. I'm not going to even try and see where that goes



I just sprayed coffee all over my monitor, keyboard. And it's dripping out my nose. Thanks mark6.


----------



## APM80

So...... Let's get the rumor mill spinning. How many lumens do you think zebralight will be able to get out of the XHP35 on a single 18650? 1500? Maybe more. If true, this is exciting.


----------



## markr6

APM80 said:


> So...... Let's get the rumor mill spinning. How many lumens do you think zebralight will be able to get out of the XHP35 on a single 18650? 1500? Maybe more. If true, this is exciting.



I would actually be OK with a modest 1200 max.

1. I don't want runtimes to suffer
2. Please NO sub-hour runtime on max. I don't expect this, but just saying. I hate seeing these lights with 45min on high, no matter how fun the crazy output may be

I'm sure all of you with actual electronics knowledge can provide a good estimate after looking at the XHP35 spec sheet.


----------



## seasam

APM80 said:


> So...... Let's get the rumor mill spinning. How many lumens do you think zebralight will be able to get out of the XHP35 on a single 18650? 1500? Maybe more. If true, this is exciting.



1500? No way man. I vote around 1200 like markr6 says. Look at the Cree PCT and the voltage requirements to approach that kind of output.


----------



## turkeylord

markr6 said:


> I would actually be OK with a modest 1200 max.
> 
> 1. I don't want runtimes to suffer
> 2. Please NO sub-hour runtime on max. I don't expect this, but just saying. I hate seeing these lights with 45min on high, no matter how fun the crazy output may be
> 
> I'm sure all of you with actual electronics knowledge can provide a good estimate after looking at the XHP35 spec sheet.



I would respectfully disagree, especially with Zebralight's UI. There will be umpteen lower outputs for you to choose from and conserve battery.


----------



## markr6

turkeylord said:


> I would respectfully disagree, especially with Zebralight's UI. There will be umpteen lower outputs for you to choose from and conserve battery.



I'm sure you're right. I think if anything changes much, it's because they get greedy with a super high output on H1. But I'd bet they try to hold it to 2hrs w/ PID like the SC600 II.


----------



## Prepped

snowlover91 said:


> The Hi model should be announced next week, not sure if stats will come then or not. Should get specs for the regular models by this Saturday. Waiting is the hard part. I imagine this light will pull a lot of current which is why they probably don't include cr123 support. It's estimated this light could pull 5-6 amps on turbo which would certainly be too much until tech advances for those battery types.



That certainly rules out CR123s which like to sit around 1.5amps continuous. Certainly a high current, I'm interested to see how they pull this off.


----------



## Gordo

Is anyone turned off (no pun) by not being able to use protected cells? I only ask because I only have protected cells and can't use any of them in this new light.


----------



## emarkd

Gordo said:


> Is anyone turned off (no pun) by not being able to use protected cells? I only ask because I only have protected cells and can't use any of them in this new light.



I think protected cells are overrated, personally, especially in a regulated light like this one. I'd rather folks have the option, I guess, unless there's a really good reason not to give them that. So I'm withholding judgement until we see why exactly they're out on this light.


----------



## phantom23

recDNA said:


> Did we ever get specs on xpl hi model?


Not XP-L but XHP35.


----------



## snowlover91

Gordo said:


> Is anyone turned off (no pun) by not being able to use protected cells? I only ask because I only have protected cells and can't use any of them in this new light.



Not at all. The smaller size and lighter weight will be a nice addition. I find with ZL that their lights step down when the battery is depleted, so that'll be one way to tell. If you keep running it after that eventually you'll hit the voltage shutoff which will keep it from going too far. 

As as far as lumens estimates go, theoretically they could get 1700-1800 lumens from the XHP35 if they push it to its max limit and 1400-1500 for the HI version.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Gordo said:


> Is anyone turned off (no pun) by not being able to use protected cells? I only ask because I only have protected cells and can't use any of them in this new light.



For me, the answer depends on whether there are engineering considerations that forced the change. I have already stated my best guess. I think there are.




KeepingItLight said:


> I do not know the fact, but it is possible that using an unprotected cell will make it easier to boost the 3.7v of a Li-ion battery up to the 11.3v needed by the *Cree XPH35* emitter. Boost circuits trade low voltage and high current (i.e., their battery input) in order to produce high voltage and low current (i.e., the driver output that is fed to the emitter). It is possible that the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III* will require high-draw batteries (which are generally unprotected) to perform this feat, but that is only my speculation.
> 
> If that is right, it would be driver requirements, rather than a desire for smaller size, that dictated a switch to unprotected batteries.




If the only reason for the change to an unprotected battery is to save a minuscule couple of millimeters in length, then I would be against it. Rightly or wrongly, there are many loyal customers who will have qualms about the change. Some of them will take their money elsewhere.


----------



## Gordo

It's more about having a lot of 18650's that won't fit. So you'll have to be careful about packing so not to mix the two types of batteries. Hate to get where I'm going and realize that I've got the wrong batteries and will be in the dark. Kind of negates having a light in thefirst place. 

Not a major issue by any means. Just got to buy more batteries and pay attention.


----------



## markr6

Not to tell others what to do, but, well, I'm telling y'all what to do 

Buy ALL your 18650s as *unprotected button tops*.
1. They fit in everything
2. They work with Eagletac, Nitecore, and all the other manufactures that often _require _button tops
3. They are just a TINY bit thicker to reduce battery rattle (tap an SC62 on the butt end and see what I mean...that's a pet peeve of mine).
4. They're cheaper
5. They are capable of higher loads
6. They don't have the parasitic drain of protected cells (this is low, but still something to consider)

I feel they're safe, but of course it's up to you.


----------



## RIX TUX

Arctonaut said:


> Any word on the SC63? I'm about to pull the trigger on a SC62w, but I don't want to jump the gun... Then again, there's something to say for the time tested model...


me too. I have the 62c and love it but wondering what will be better? any news


----------



## psychbeat

I LOVE my h600w MKII but.... I would like a slightly warmer tint. 
Wish the bezel wasn't press fit. 

I'm hoping the MK3 W is a tad warmer.

EDIT: Oops wrong-ish thread.


----------



## recDNA

The only reason I would purchase a 63 is if throw is beyond expectations


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

recDNA said:


> The only reason I would purchase a 63 is if throw is beyond expectations



I'm guessing you already have a 62?


----------



## InspectHerGadget

About 10 days ago, I reached to my belt for my ZL SC600 Mk 2 and it was missing! I searched everywhere and finally I found it down the drivers side of my car. The loop thread had pulled away and my light had fallen off my belt. I was really pleased as these are expensive lights. Happy days.

I then went to grab it a few days later to sew the loop up but couldn't find it. I still can't find it and I've looked everywhere.

This is obviously an act of God...

I have placed a pre-order for the Mk3.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Um, I was promised levels on Nov 7.


----------



## snowlover91

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Um, I was promised levels on Nov 7.



It's still November 7th, give them some time they're in Texas and could put the numbers up at any time today. Plus it's better to make sure they've got a good measure of the results versus rushing them and having inaccurate numbers.


----------



## magnum70383

My flashlight bug came back and just saw this thread. I'm in trouble.


----------



## Prepped

I'm with you, Ozzie. I've been refreshing the page on their site for the last few hours. 

...Must. Know. Specs.


----------



## sdr

Prepped said:


> ...Must. Know. Specs.



Ditto...anxiously anticipating here, also!


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Yup. Every post here = 20 site refreshes.


----------



## TCY

I've been refreshing the MK3 page 30 times a day since Nov 5th. If the NW version can go as high as 1700lm it's probably an insta buy for me. Farewell wallet :devil:


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Cool white I guess a cool 1500 lm.


----------



## Prepped

I'm normally a patient person, but it's now 8:00PM here, and still no update on their page... 
#sadface


----------



## Flashy808

I was another impatient one, I kept on refreshing the page and even thought I was on the wrong date [emoji13][emoji14]...


----------



## magnum70383

8:35pm... Com on...


----------



## Prepped

I've given up hope, lads.


----------



## snowlover91

One thing I noticed is it works from 2.7-6.0v. I assume this would actually allow two primary cr123 batteries to be used as well, or would the voltage from two primaries be too much? Looking forward to specs, if they can get 1500+ lumens from this light I might have to get one.. Or the HI version not sure which.


----------



## Prepped

snowlover91 said:


> One thing I noticed is it works from 2.7-6.0v. I assume this would actually allow two primary cr123 batteries to be used as well, or would the voltage from two primaries be too much? Looking forward to specs, if they can get 1500+ lumens from this light I might have to get one.. Or the HI version not sure which.



It would be too much. Brand new CR123's come in at just over 3v.


----------



## snowlover91

Prepped said:


> It would be too much. Brand new CR123's come in at just over 3v.



But under load wouldn't they be less than 6v combined? I guess if it supported them then ZL would officially support it.


----------



## Prepped

snowlover91 said:


> But under load wouldn't they be less than 6v combined? I guess if it supported them then ZL would officially support it.



I'm no battery expert. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can chime in on this. It would be pretty sweet if they could accept primary cells.


----------



## TCY

People, specs are here. NW goes up to 1126lm and CW max 1300lm. At least it is still Nov 7th..


----------



## Prepped

TCY said:


> People, specs are here. NW goes up to 1126lm and CW max 1300lm. At least it is still Nov 7th..



Rejoice! Wow. Impressive. I'm a happy camper.


----------



## magnum70383

Hmmm... Will this replace my hds Rotary?...


----------



## Glenn7

Hmm was hoping for closer to 16-1700 for CW, Oh well still not too shabby for a small light.


----------



## LEDeez

Only 106 more lumens on the NW version, but lost the ability to run protected cells. Is this MKIII an upgrade or downgrade?


----------



## TCY

It would be legendary if the NW version has a CRI of 90+ lol. 80 is just not enough for me to pull the trigger.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Glenn7 said:


> Hmm was hoping for closer to 16-1700 for CW, Oh well still not too shabby for a small light.




With all the heat generated at 1600+ lumens, I suspect thermal management would force step-downs faster than a speeding SC62!

Regarding CR123A batteries, I think there is a problem with high amperage. The maximum continuous discharge current for most CR123A batteries is 1.5 amps. You can see this on any datasheet. The *ZebraLight SC600w Mk. III* will probably need more than that on it high modes.


----------



## KeepingItLight

LEDeez said:


> Only 106 more lumens on the NW version, but lost the ability to run protected cells. Is this MKIII an upgrade or downgrade?



That's the big question! 

Note the newer models offer improved output, CCT and CRI. We're still waiting for data on throw.


*Model**Lumens**CCT**CRI*SC600 Mk. II L211006300K65SC600 Mk. III13005700K70SC600w Mk. II L210284400K75SC600w Mk. III11264500K80


----------



## KeepingItLight

Er, ... do you like kittens?


----------



## Jobeanie123

LEDeez said:


> Only 106 more lumens on the NW version, but lost the ability to run protected cells. Is this MKIII an upgrade or downgrade?



106 more lumens, 5 more CRI (75 to 80, allegedly, and 65 to 70 on the cool white), and increased runtimes in every output level relative to the Mk II. It's a definite upgrade, even if milder than I was hoping for. I wanted to see some crazy turbo and the rest of it be the same. I am a bit confused about the battery situation, like many people here. I didn't think anything of the phrase "i.e. 65mm long" in the description until Zebralight confirmed through several emails that protected cells will not work in the new light. If that's just to save a fraction of an inch or a few grams, I say that's inane. I'd love to see some other reasoning for it, but given that it isn't driven that hard, I can't think of anything else. The SC600 has always been a chunkier model, anyway – their pocket friendly light is the SC62. How odd that the H600Fd/c Mk IIIs allow protected cells and this one doesn't. I suppose that's not necessarily their "way forward," then. 

I only use unprotected cells myself, but that's just one more thing to keep people from buying this light if they have a few protected cells already lying around.

Either way, I welcome the upgrade, and I'm excited to see what the SC600w Mk III HI has to offer!


----------



## magnum70383

Well that sucks I can't buy this light since all my 18650 are protected..........................


----------



## sdr

Personally, I'm loving what I'm seeing! 1300 lm on the cool white is fantastic. I mean, the Mk II L2 was already cranking out some good numbers and great performance in both the cool white and warm versions that I own. Now, to get a nice bump in output and performance packed into a smaller, newly configured body. I think that rocks hard in my world. Way ta go Zebralight! 

And my unsolicited .02¢ on the unprotected battery issue can be summed up in a simple analogy that goes like this: If I'm so fearful of having sex with someone that I feel the need to wear two condoms, then maybe I shouldn't be having sex with that person? I mean, this flashlight already has a protected circuitry. Why do I need to use a protected battery on top of that? And, I personally can't grasp the notion of owning a $100 torch and being incapable of buying the battery required to turn that hundred dollar light on. But, hey! That's just me. Your mileage may vary? After seeing these specs I am a very happy camper! And extremely anxious to get my hands on mine!

Here are the comps on the cool white versions, Mk III v. Mk II L2...

*Mark III Cool White*


Light Output (runtimes) 
High: H1 1300 Lm (PID, approx 2.2 hrs) or H2 670 Lm (PID, 2.8 hrs)/360 Lm (4.3 hrs)/160 Lm (12 hrs)
Medium: M1 70 Lm (33 hrs) or M2 32 Lm (73 hrs)/12 Lm (8 days)
Low: L1 3.8 Lm (18 days)/0.43 Lm (2.8 months)/0.06 Lm (5.1 months)/0.01 Lm (7.1 months)
Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1


*Mark II L2 Cool White*


Light Output (runtimes)
High: H1 1100 Lm (PID, approx 2 hr) or H2 670 Lm (PID, approx 2.5 hrs) / 356 Lm (3.9 hrs) / 162 Lm (11 hrs)
Medium: M1 70 Lm (30 hrs) or M2 32 Lm (66 hrs) / 12 Lm (172 hrs)
Low: L1 3.8 Lm (16 days) or L2 0.43 Lm (2.5 months) / 0.06 Lm (4.6 months) / 0.01 Lm (5.5 months)
Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1


----------



## UnderPar

ALL numbers have improved!! :thumbsup:

Now I have to start saving........


----------



## kj2

Yeah.. I've to grab one up


----------



## Prepped

I'm liking the run times that I am seeing. Probably going to have to pick one up.


----------



## UnderPar

Really looks like a "must have"....


----------



## TCY

I didn't notice there's a ~10% increase in runtime. ZL doesn't specify they battery they are using for the test but should be a 3400 mAh.


----------



## twistedraven

Someone should ask Zebralight if these are Easywhite binnings for the new models.

I will hold off on any purchase and see what kind of throw the HI version will get. Also interested in waiting for the headlamp version too.


----------



## phantom23

Glenn7 said:


> Hmm was hoping for closer to 16-1700 for CW, Oh well still not too shabby for a small light.


That'd be too much for a such small light (heat) and 18650 cell.


Jobeanie123 said:


> 106 more lumens, 5 more CRI (75 to 80, allegedly, and 65 to 70 on the cool white), and increased runtimes in every output level relative to the Mk II. It's a definite upgrade, even if milder than I was hoping for.


Thing is - it's a fairly minor upgrade that comes at a cost. Floodier beam (SC62 supposed to be the floodier one) and most of all - inability to use protected cells are downgrades. They could've achieved the same improvement by using XP-L V6 emitter instead of XHP35. In short - if you don't want to loose the ability to use protected cells, just swap the emitter in your SC600 MkII.


sdr said:


> And my unsolicited .02¢ on the unprotected battery issue can be summed up in a simple analogy that goes like this: If I'm so fearful of having sex with someone that I feel the need to wear two condoms, then maybe I shouldn't be having sex with that person? I mean, this flashlight already has a protected circuitry. Why do I need to use a protected battery on top of that?


It's not a good analogy. Unlike condoms two separate battery protections do not interfere with each other, they increase safety. More - now you need to check/buy expensive and proven charger and most of all - unprotected cells. Most people have protected cells only (safety) and for them SC600 MkIII is a downgrade. I think Zebralight is trying too hard here.


----------



## Glenn7

Yeah but I can live in hope mr phantom [emoji12]
So the Hi version will probably only come in at 1100 lumens all be it having more lux but make more heat.


----------



## phantom23

XHP35 HI is considerably less efficient than regular XHP35, I'd say that HI version is going to have around 1000 lumens and similar throw as SC600MkII. It's going to be pointless compared to MkII and especially MkII with the swapped emitter (to XP-L V6).


----------



## recDNA

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> I'm guessing you already have a 62?


Ya, a 62w. The model mkIII described above holds no interest for me but looking forward to hearing about XP-L HI model. Like I said I want throw. Unless you are holding both flashlights in your hand at the same time 100 lumens difference is not even discernable....in fact the more focused hotspot of the mkII might even make it look brighter to the naked eye. 1000 lumens is plenty for me from a small flashlight. Things that would impress me would be a throwier choice and a model with higher CRI. Of course less heat and more runtime are always desirable. There is a happy medium between underdriving an led and trying to squeeze out the very last lumen. When you stray into unprotected only land you have gone too far toward the squeezing out the last lumen end of the spectrum.


----------



## seasam

personally I think this light looks like a nice upgrade. slight bump in output, runtime, and higher CRI. :twothumbs

LED technology has not advanced by leaps and bounds recently, so why should this new ZL be any different?


----------



## kj2

Do have to wait a few weeks extra, before it's in stock here. Expect the dealer here has it around mid- December. But it also wouldn't surprise me if it comes end January '16.


----------



## geal

So I have a 62w which I love. My go to light. Can someone convince me why I should have this one too? Tougher and better heat dissipation are the only two I can think of. Are they enough? Runtimes aren't that much better... BTW I don't have mkII or 600.


----------



## Obiwanjak

What batteries does the group recommend for the MkIII? It looks like most of the unprotected button tops on Mtn Electronics list a length of 67mm. Maybe that's not a problem. Thoughts? 

Loren


----------



## phantom23

recDNA said:


> Ya, a 62w. The model mkIII described above holds no interest for me but looking forward to hearing about* XP-L HI model*. Like I said I want throw.


There will be no XP-L HI model, just XHP35 HI. Chip is still quite big even in the HI version.


seasam said:


> slight bump in output, runtime,


They's they same they'd achieved by using XP-L instead of XHP35.


----------



## Vol

geal said:


> So I have a 62w which I love. My go to light. Can someone convince me why I should have this one too? Tougher and better heat dissipation are the only two I can think of. Are they enough? Runtimes aren't that much better... BTW I don't have mkII or 600.



Throw, but I would wait on the hi.


----------



## seasam

phantom23 said:


> They's they same they'd achieved by using XP-L instead of XHP35.



I've wondered if this is because of driver design? you can't really use a boost driver with a XP-L and 18650 as there is not a high voltage version of the XP-L.


----------



## texas cop

It's shorter, it's lighter and it's brighter so I call it a step up. Single cell light with built in low voltage protection so protected cells not really needed. It's on my Christmas list too self. The only reservation I have is how hot will it get on high. Does it have a good copper led pad? Zebralight seems to have done well so far, so this one should have few if any surprises.


----------



## phantom23

It's shorter but it comes at a price. Brightness increase doesn't explain why they went for XHP35 instead of XP-L.


seasam said:


> I've wondered if this is because of driver design? you can't really use a boost driver with a XP-L and 18650 as there is not a high voltage version of the XP-L.


You can use the driver from SC600 MkII.


----------



## fnsooner

I am hoping that “beam profile” is the reason for the choice of the XPH35, e.g., larger hot spot vs. spill ratio. All the other incremental improvements(runtime, output, etc,) are just icing on the cake.

I wish they would have done this to the SC62 series. I am on the bubble on this one. 

I think I will be a spectator for a while.


----------



## Sulik

I hope new SC63 will copy all SC5 models (w,c,d,F). All leds and frosted lens. At first I'll buy SC63Fc or SC600Fc. If it will be such models.


----------



## phantom23

fnsooner said:


> I am hoping that “beam profile” is the reason for the choice of the XPH35, e.g., larger hot spot vs. spill ratio.


That's SC62 territory. SC600 is the throwier one.


----------



## seasam

phantom23 said:


> It's shorter but it comes at a price. Brightness increase doesn't explain why they went for XHP35 instead of XP-L.
> 
> You can use the driver from SC600 MkII.



To use the driver from the SC600 MkII with a XPL... you're assuming the XML2 in the SC600 MkII is 3v. What if it's a 6V version of the XM-L2? or 12V?


----------



## fnsooner

phantom23 said:


> That's SC62 territory. SC600 is the throwier one.



Although I think we are getting into the “eye of the beholder” type discussion, I think your XHP35 vs. XP-L comparison is more appropriate when we get to their respective HI variants and what might be preferred in the SC600 MK III HI, e.g. , I think that the XHP35 would be more desirable in the SC600 MK III and the XP-L HI may be more desirable in the SC600 MK III HI. 

It is all fun speculation at this point


----------



## phantom23

seasam said:


> To use the driver from the SC600 MkII with a XPL... you're assuming the XML2 in the SC600 MkII is 3v. What if it's a 6V version of the XM-L2? or 12V?


They're using regular XM-L2.


----------



## TCY

The XHP35 HI goes up to 1483 lm at 13W, so I'm guessing that ZL would drive their HI variation to something like 1050 lm with on par runtime.


----------



## phantom23

^^
And all that could've been archieved with regular XP-L and SC600's circuit. It would be even brighter.


----------



## TCY

But doesn't xph35 throw better than regular XP-L? Besides, it offers better CRI and longer runtime since it's not driven as hard to achieve the same brightness.


----------



## texas cop

Folks they didn't use the XM-L2 or the XP-L they used the XHP-35. So using the Cree charts I see the XM-L2 U4 and the XP-L V6 running neck to neck in output. The XHP-35's go a little higher and have just come out, higher bins for better next years update for more product improvement. I personally prefer some throw with good flood. I'd be happy with an XHP-35 HD and get another 400 lumens over the HI version at the same wattage. Remember folks this is only a light and I know half of your wives have already asked why you need another, mine did. I also reread this thread and agree with several who would like to see a 26650 version of this light.


----------



## KeepingItLight

If there is a legitimate trade off between runtime and lumens with the *Cree XPH35 HI* and the *Cree XP-L HI*, I'll take the extra runtime. If it comes with improved CCT and CRI, that makes the decision even easier. In a small flashlight like the *ZebraLight SC600w Mk. III HI*, 1000 lumens is really all I need. This is even more true when you factor in the early step-downs that would be imposed by thermal management software if the SC600w HI were allowed to reach uber-high output levels.


----------



## snowlover91

I find it impressive that they were able to increase runtime by around 10% while also increasing the output with the XHP35 emitter. Also the "cool white" is now 5700k which is a little warmer compared with 6300k previously while offering 1300 lumens. I'll be waiting to see some reviews as well as what the HI version ends up looking like for throw but I'm definitely impressed. Extra runtime, better cri, shorter and lighter and brighter as well.


----------



## fnsooner

TCY said:


> But doesn't xph35 throw better than regular XP-L? Besides, it offers better CRI and longer runtime since it's not driven as hard to achieve the same brightness.



I was thinking that, all else being equal, that the XP-L threw better because it had a smaller LED. At least that is what I am basing some of my speculation on. If I am wrong, I would love to be corrected so that I can recalibrate my thinking.


----------



## twistedraven

Cree's site lists the XHP35 HI and XPL HI as 3.45mm squared for either one. Now I don't know if that's the entire footprint, and the actual dye area of the two differ, but for reference, Cree's site lists the XML2 as 5mm squared.


----------



## TCY

fnsooner said:


> I was thinking that, all else being equal, that the XP-L threw better because it had a smaller LED. At least that is what I am basing some of my speculation on. If I am wrong, I would love to be corrected so that I can recalibrate my thinking.



My bad. I reread my post and seems like I wrote xhp35 and forgot about HI.


----------



## Glenn7

got mine in hand now


----------



## TCY

Wait.......Glenn you have the MK3 already?


----------



## Glenn7

correct M3 CW - nice light!


----------



## twistedraven

Do you got any pictures of its beam vs other lights?


----------



## TCY

Lucky you mate :thumbsup:


----------



## TCY

A horde of flashaholics craving for photos and beamshots incoming!


----------



## fnsooner

twistedraven said:


> Cree's site lists the XHP35 HI and XPL HI as 3.45mm squared for either one. Now I don't know if that's the entire footprint, and the actual dye area of the two differ, but for reference, Cree's site lists the XML2 as 5mm squared.



When I first heard of the XHP35, I googled it and ran across this post in a thread about it. Pay particular attention to the pictures and the avg surface luminance per lumen( lux?). That is where I formed my initial opinion on the subject


----------



## Glenn7

Won't have time today sorry but if I get time in the next few days I will - it's nearly 3pm here so sun won't go down any time soon.

Nice smooth beam that throws a little better than I expected.


----------



## twistedraven

It looks like the footprint of the two is the same, but the dye size of the XPL is slightly smaller. The higher lumen output of the XHP might make the smaller dye size a non-factor, but these Zebralights aren't driven to max amount of lumens. It is very questionable indeed.

I guess Zebralight's reasoning for the XHP-35 is for better tint and/or CRI. I'm not sure what the average CRI is for most XPL-HI lights out on the current market?


----------



## Glenn7

compared to a few CW lights it looks neutral (white) to me - most seem to think neutral is yellow ish color (on the tungsten side)


----------



## StarHalo

1. Where do I get one in-hand now?

2. Do you need an IMR for 1400 lumens or will a standard AW/Panasonic cell do it?


----------



## Glenn7

I just ordered mine from ZL web store on the 2nd delivered from China by EMS this morning (we are 1 day ahead if you in the US)
Haven't thought about IMR's- might squeeze out some more lumens but at more heat and less runtime (for smaller capacity)


----------



## sdr

Glenn7 said:


> I just ordered mine from ZL web store on the 2nd delivered from China by EMS this morning (we are 1 day ahead if you in the US)



Well, if you have one "in hand" already, then you are a lot more than a day ahead of us here in the United States. It was only 24 hours ago that ZL posted the specs on the Mk III for us to see. And it was just a week and a day prior to that before it became available for us to pre-order - Which I did within an hour or two of pre-order availability. 

I was of the impression that ZL would not begin shipping the new Mk III to countries other than the U.S. until Nov. 30, 2015 and to the U.S. about 10 days after that. That's what is either posted on Zebralight's website or has been communicated to us, anyway. So if you've already received one, then, a.) You are indeed a very lucky guy! And, b.) Way more than a day ahead of the U.S. - You are a full month ahead of schedule!

I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures! Because, as I'm sure you are aware, without pics it never happened - As the saying goes.


----------



## Glenn7

Hmmm my light came while I was out this morning and I only handled it for a short time before I had to go out again, so with your comments I thought Hmm better have a closer look when I get home. So I looked and guess what... it says SC600 II L2 on box and on the side of the light Grrrrr!!! and sorry everyone  you can rub it in haha. 
just sent a message to ZL to fix it and I don't think I should have to pay to post back their mistake ether as Austpost is dear as poison probably $20 easily - now waiting response.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Glenn7 said:


> just sent a message to ZL to fix it and I don't think I should have to pay to post back their mistake ether as Austpost is dear as poison probably $20 easily - now waiting response.



And you checked that you ordered it correctly?


----------



## kj2

Received answer back from my dealer. Seems like the SC600 MK III will be in stock, early NEXT year...


----------



## newbie66

kj2 said:


> Received answer back from my dealer. Seems like the SC600 MK III will be in stock, early NEXT year...



Lol! That is a long wait, but you must have patience. Don't be like the rest of the fanatics.


----------



## Glenn7

Mr Floppy said:


> And you checked that you ordered it correctly?


Yes triple checked - great experience for my first ZL would not have bought an XM-L anyway to begin with


----------



## snowlover91

Glenn, don't worry once you get one you'll be amazed by it and love the UI. I'm sure they'll make it right since it was their mistake, and the Zebralights are worth it too. Look at it this way, you've got the old one that you can play with until you send it back and then when you get the newest one you'll be able to compare the differences!


----------



## Glenn7

Yeah thanks mate, it's not the end of the world really just a "first world problem"


----------



## more_vampires

Glenn7 said:


> Yeah thanks mate, it's not the end of the world really just a "first world problem"


Heh! First world problems: I have 85 flashlights and one of them is not the newest model. 



Glenn7 said:


> Hmmm my light came while I was out this morning and I only handled it for a short time before I had to go out again, so with your comments I thought Hmm better have a closer look when I get home. So I looked and guess what... it says SC600 II L2 on box and on the side of the light Grrrrr!!! and sorry everyone  you can rub it in haha.
> just sent a message to ZL to fix it and I don't think I should have to pay to post back their mistake ether as Austpost is dear as poison probably $20 easily - now waiting response.


The SC600 L2 MKII is still one heck of a light, I'm EDC-ing mine right now. It will stay in that pocket until I posess the MKIII. 5 years from now, the L2 MKII will STILL be awesome... just not the newest model.

A good light is a good light, they don't start being crappy just because something newer came out. A Rolls Royce is a Rolls, regardless of age. SC600 L2 MKII will be forever classic, IMHO.


----------



## markr6

more_vampires said:


> Heh! First world problems: I have 85 flashlights and one of them is not the newest model.
> 
> 
> The SC600 L2 MKII is still one heck of a light, I'm EDC-ing mine right now. It will stay in that pocket until I posess the MKIII. 5 years from now, the L2 MKII will STILL be awesome... just not the newest model.
> 
> A good light is a good light, they don't start being crappy just because something newer came out. A Rolls Royce is a Rolls, regardless of age. SC600 L2 MKII will be forever classic, IMHO.



Exactly. I'll sell mine IF the SC600 III is just as good, or better. Not because the II is now weak junk, but because I'm trying to keep my collection for getting out of control 

I'm excited about this new mk III and happy with the updates. Now it's just up to the tints on these...it will be a long wait!


----------



## emarkd

markr6 said:


> Exactly. I'll sell mine IF the SC600 III is just as good, or better. Not because the II is now weak junk, but because I'm trying to keep my collection for getting out of control



I hope several people want to sell their Mk2 lights because I'm hoping to pick one up. I've still got my Mk1 SC600 and it isn't going anywhere, but I wouldn't mind having a Mk2 while I wait on the Mk3 HI light to come out.


----------



## twistedraven

I ordered the cool white one-- I couldn't resist. I'm mainly interested at how the 5700 kelvin 70CRI will look like. Possibly even better tint than previous Cree LEDs, here's to hoping.

What kind of batteries are everybody getting or using for these?


----------



## snowlover91

twistedraven said:


> I ordered the cool white one-- I couldn't resist. I'm mainly interested at how the 5700 kelvin 70CRI will look like. Possibly even better tint than previous Cree LEDs, here's to hoping.
> 
> What kind of batteries are everybody getting or using for these?



I plan on using these batteries here. They offer up to 10A in continuous discharge while giving extra capacity, 3500mah. They're a great price too at only $8.45 a battery. The 5700k might have more of a "pure white" color to it versus a cooler white/blue, at least that's what I'm hoping! I'm waiting for pics and reviews but it's going to be hard to wait...


----------



## twistedraven

Great price! I'm not worried about unprotected cells with the light as it has a low voltage protection, but how will it play with my Nitecore intellicharger? 

I'm hoping it'll be very 'pure white' too. My reference for absolute neutral when it comes to lighting is midday sunlight, which is around 5700 kelvin. Now of course the sunlight is full spectrum, and LEDs have a chunk of their cyans missing, and also aren't too good at deep reds. We will see! Now I'll have a 219B at 4500k, an XML2 easywhite at 5000k, an Luxeon T at 5000k, and now this XHP35 at 5700k to compare to.


----------



## snowlover91

twistedraven said:


> Great price!
> 
> I'm hoping it'll be very 'pure white' too. My reference for absolute neutral when it comes to lighting is midday sunlight, which is around 5700 kelvin. Now of course the sunlight is full spectrum, and LEDs have a chunk of their cyans missing, and also aren't too good at deep reds. We will see! Now I'll have a 219B at 4500k, an XML2 easywhite at 5000k, an Luxeon T at 5000k, and now this XHP35 at 5700k to compare to.



Hoping for some beamshots and comparisons once you receive your copy! Zebralight has a way of making it exceedingly difficult to wait for a new product to ship...


----------



## uofaengr

twistedraven said:


> Great price! I'm not worried about unprotected cells with the light as it has a low voltage protection, but how will it play with my Nitecore intellicharger?
> 
> I'm hoping it'll be very 'pure white' too. My reference for absolute neutral when it comes to lighting is midday sunlight, which is around 5700 kelvin. Now of course the sunlight is full spectrum, and LEDs have a chunk of their cyans missing, and also aren't too good at deep reds. We will see! Now I'll have a 219B at 4500k, an XML2 easywhite at 5000k, an Luxeon T at 5000k, and now this XHP35 at 5700k to compare to.


Eager to hear your comparisons between each of these emitters. [emoji106]


----------



## sdr

snowlover91 said:


> I plan on using these batteries here.



The specs on these batteries look great. It will be interesting to see if the Mk III will be able to accommodate their additional .5 mm length? Zebralight says the Mk III needs a 65 mm battery. It might be a challenge to to feed it a 65.5 mm cell? A half a millimeter doesn't sound like much...but...I guess we'll just have to wait and see? I will be using the tried and true Panasonic NCR18650B 3400 mAh 3.7v unprotected flat top cells that measure out at exactly 18.3 mm x 65 mm.


----------



## recDNA

texas cop said:


> It's shorter, it's lighter and it's brighter so I call it a step up. Single cell light with built in low voltage protection so protected cells not really needed. It's on my Christmas list too self. The only reservation I have is how hot will it get on high. Does it have a good copper led pad? Zebralight seems to have done well so far, so this one should have few if any surprises.


I prefer protected cells because I have to charge them too. It' also very easy to damage the wrapper and not notice and get a short circuit that pcb might cut off before it explodes.

I do use AW LiMn cells also but I prefer protected and would never use unprotected ICR.


----------



## psychbeat

^^^ive only had the opposite happen - where the stupid strip on the protected battery shorted from a tear in the wrapper. 

I actually think protected cells are a tad LESS safe than bare because of this.


----------



## markr6

You guys know I don't like cool whites. But I ordered both a NW and CW on the mk III. I have high hopes for the CW 5700K. I have a feeling it will be very nice; the NW will probably be good, but possibly dingy depending on the lottery. Or they may both be really nice. I'm looking forward to comparing them.

I'm pretty much to the point of having all my 18650s being used in lights! Imagine that! So I need to stock up. I still don't believe the 65mm to be so strict, but we'll see. I'm betting an unprotected button top will fit. If not, I'll be using an NCR18650GA 3500mAh.


----------



## Prototype3a

texas cop said:


> I also reread this thread and agree with several who would like to see a 26650 version of this light.



I'd LOVE to see a 26650 zebralight.


----------



## holygeez03

Yes, a 26650 would separate itself better from the SC62 for me... especially a 26650 with HI emitter.


----------



## snowlover91

Mark, those are the same batteries I use and they're great. Cheap at less than $9 a cell, excellent capacity and high discharge too. At 65.5mm I think they'll fit, if they use the tail cap design like the SC5 has they should work.


----------



## markr6

I only buy button tops. This _could _be the very first light that can't use them. We'll see. I may need to buy a battery specifically for this light. I sort of do that right now anyway in a sense...no rotating for me.


----------



## phantom23

TCY said:


> But doesn't xph35 throw better than regular XP-L? Besides, it offers better CRI and longer runtime since it's not driven as hard to achieve the same brightness.


No, XHP35 has less throw than XP-L. It needs slightly less power to achieve the same brightness but the difference is going to be wasted by boost circuit. XHP35 HI is a different story, it's slightly less officient than XP-L (plu energy wasted by boost driver), probably has similar throw and costs more.


texas cop said:


> Folks they didn't use the XM-L2 or the XP-L they used the XHP-35. So using the Cree charts I see the XM-L2 U4 and the XP-L V6 running neck to neck in output. The XHP-35's go a little higher and have just come out, higher bins for better next years update for more product improvement.


They should use it next year then to see the difference. Combined with lesss officient boost circuit the only thing that's going to change (for worse) is throw.


KeepingItLight said:


> If there is a legitimate trade off between runtime and lumens with the *Cree XPH35 HI* and the *Cree XP-L HI*, I'll take the extra runtime.


There isn't. XHP35 HI is comparable to regular XP-L in every way. XP-L HI has slightly less lumens but it's much throwier than both of them.


snowlover91 said:


> I find it impressive that they were able to increase runtime by around 10% while also increasing the output with the XHP35 emitter. Also the "cool white" is now 5700k which is a little warmer compared with 6300k previously while offering 1300 lumens. I'll be waiting to see some reviews as well as what the HI version ends up looking like for throw but I'm definitely impressed. Extra runtime, better cri, shorter and lighter and brighter as well.


HI version is going to have as much throw as SC600.


twistedraven said:


> It looks like the footprint of the two is the same, but the dye size of the XPL is slightly smaller. The higher lumen output of the XHP might make the smaller dye size a non-factor, but these Zebralights aren't driven to max amount of lumens. It is very questionable indeed.


Exactly. XHP35 has much bigger die than XP-L which means that at similar brightness XHP is going to have noticeably less throw. XHP35 HI is going to have better throw (than regular XHP35) with less lumens than both XHP35 and XP-L.

In short - SC600 MkIII is going to be significantly floodier than MKII, basically SC62 on steroids. MkIII HI doesn't make any sense since it won't be better than SC600 MkII. If you want the best from both wordls and you already have SC600 MkII - swap the emitter to XP-L V6, it's available in gorgeous 3D tint (4750-5000K). You'll get as much light as in the MkIII without sacrificing any throw (you'll get slightly more throw than in MkII to be precise).


----------



## fnsooner

^^Nice!


----------



## Prepped

I'd like to see a ZL 26650 light with crazy runtimes.


----------



## twistedraven

phantom23 said:


> In short - SC600 MkIII is going to be significantly floodier than MKII, basically SC62 on steroids.




Is it confirmed that the dye area for the XHP35 HD is that much larger than the dye area for the XML2?


----------



## markr6

If anyone is just coming here and doesn't feel like reading 22 pages, just know the mk III is pretty much going to be badass.


----------



## TCY

phantom23 said:


> No, XHP35 has less throw than XP-L. It needs slightly less power to achieve the same brightness but the difference is going to be wasted by boost circuit. XHP35 HI is a different story, it's slightly less officient than XP-L (plu energy wasted by boost driver), probably has similar throw and costs more.



Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking about xph35 HI out throwing regular XP-L as a follow up to my '1050lm' post but somehow ditched 'HI' at home.


----------



## TCY

markr6 said:


> If anyone is just coming here and doesn't feel like reading 22 pages, just know the mk III is pretty much going to be badass.



Well said:devil:


----------



## snowlover91

Phantom23, how exactly would you swap the emitter in one of these lights? The bezel is press fit, electronics are sealed and potted, and it's extremely difficult to get to the internals of the Zebralights.


----------



## TCY

I notice that ZL claims identical beam profile for both MK2 and MK3 i.e. 80 degree spill and 10 degree hot spot for both, with SC62's hot spot being a little larger at 12 degrees. Does that mean ZL has worked with the MK3's reflector a bit so its throw matches what a MK2 can do?


----------



## Glenn7

more_vampires said:


> Heh! First world problems: I have 85 flashlights and one of them is not the newest model.
> 
> 
> The SC600 L2 MKII is still one heck of a light, I'm EDC-ing mine right now. It will stay in that pocket until I posess the MKIII. 5 years from now, the L2 MKII will STILL be awesome... just not the newest model.
> 
> A good light is a good light, they don't start being crappy just because something newer came out. A Rolls Royce is a Rolls, regardless of age. SC600 L2 MKII will be forever classic, IMHO.



No not thinking it's a crappy light - but using your analogy go into a Rolls Royce showroom not even sure you want one and the sales guy touts how good the new model is having this and that so you decide to give it a whirl, you pay for it and they deliver an older model that you weren't interested in in the first place for a price that's 10% higher then how would you feel.


----------



## psychbeat

The spot will be a tad larger - which is kinda cool.


----------



## phantom23

twistedraven said:


> Is it confirmed that the dye area for the XHP35 HD is that much larger than the dye area for the XML2?


 Yes, XHP35 has 4 dies squeezed tightly next to each other.


TCY said:


> I notice that ZL claims identical beam profile for both MK2 and MK3 i.e. 80 degree spill and 10 degree hot spot for both, with SC62's hot spot being a little larger at 12 degrees. Does that mean ZL has worked with the MK3's reflector a bit so its throw matches what a MK2 can do?


 It means MkIII is going to have equally wide but less intense spot.


----------



## snowlover91

phantom23 said:


> No, XHP35 has less throw than XP-L. It needs slightly less power to achieve the same brightness but the difference is going to be wasted by boost circuit. XHP35 HI is a different story, it's slightly less officient than XP-L (plu energy wasted by boost driver), probably has similar throw and costs more.
> 
> They should use it next year then to see the difference. Combined with lesss officient boost circuit the only thing that's going to change (for worse) is throw.
> 
> There isn't. XHP35 HI is comparable to regular XP-L in every way. XP-L HI has slightly less lumens but it's much throwier than both of them.
> 
> HI version is going to have as much throw as SC600.
> 
> Exactly. XHP35 has much bigger die than XP-L which means that at similar brightness XHP is going to have noticeably less throw. XHP35 HI is going to have better throw (than regular XHP35) with less lumens than both XHP35 and XP-L.
> 
> In short - SC600 MkIII is going to be significantly floodier than MKII, basically SC62 on steroids. MkIII HI doesn't make any sense since it won't be better than SC600 MkII. If you want the best from both wordls and you already have SC600 MkII - swap the emitter to XP-L V6, it's available in gorgeous 3D tint (4750-5000K). You'll get as much light as in the MkIII without sacrificing any throw (you'll get slightly more throw than in MkII to be precise).



Phantom23, I'm curious how a person would swap emitters in these lights? They're potted, press fit bezel, etc and the electronics are exceedingly difficult to get to.


----------



## Glenn7

Hmm don't know what to think now.... ZL just refunded me $30 - makes the light I got cheapish but doesn't get me closer to MIII that I wanted.......thinking :thinking: and as I said before I wouldn't have bought the xml model :ironic: (now I paid $70 for a light I didn't want)


----------



## akhyar

Glenn7 said:


> Hmm don't know what to think now.... ZL just refunded me $30 - makes the light I got cheapish but doesn't get me closer to MIII that I wanted.......thinking :thinking: and as I said before I wouldn't have bought the xml model :ironic: (now I paid $70 for a light I didn't want)



That's not right at all.
It's their mistake and they should fork out the return shipping of your MkII and send you a brand new MkIII when it is launched.
Come to think of it, the MkII is now discounted to $85, so basically you are only saving $15 for an older light that you didn't want


----------



## snowlover91

Glenn7 said:


> Hmm don't know what to think now.... ZL just refunded me $30 - makes the light I got cheapish but doesn't get me closer to MIII that I wanted.......thinking :thinking: and as I said before I wouldn't have bought the xml model :ironic: (now I paid $70 for a light I didn't want)



Did they give you the option of returning it for a full refund or did they automatically refund some of the money? I would insist on returning it for a full refund or for the correct model.


----------



## twistedraven

phantom23 said:


> Yes, XHP35 has 4 dies squeezed tightly next to each other.




I made a picture in photoshop from pictures online I've found of XML2 dedomed, and XHP35 HD, to demonstrate the difference. The difference isn't that large, but it is noticeable. However, the dome of the XML2 is quite large, so it could lead to it being even more floody than what its die size indicates.


----------



## sdr

Glenn7 said:


> Hmm don't know what to think now.... ZL just refunded me $30 - makes the light I got cheapish but doesn't get me closer to MIII that I wanted.......thinking :thinking: and as I said before I wouldn't have bought the xml model :ironic: (now I paid $70 for a light I didn't want)



In case you happened to overlook this, please allow me to shine a light on your path...

*Returns and Refunds*

Returns Policy
Our guarantee is unconditional. If any purchase fails to meet your complete satisfaction, for any reason, you may return it or exchange it within 30 days of receipt of your shipment. Before returning any product, you MUST obtain a Return Merchandise Authorization number (RMA) from a customer service representative. Include the original invoice received with the merchandise and send the package prepaid, via UPS or insured USPS Mail to:

ZebraLight, Inc.
Attn: Returns Department
2908 W. Story Road
Irving, TX 75038
U.S.A.

Refunds 
You will receive a credit via your original method of payment. Monetary refunds and/or product exchanges will only be granted on items purchased directly from ZebraLight, Inc. Please allow 10-14 business days for processing of returns and issuance of credit upon receipt. Please note that we do not refund the shipping costs.


If you are returning a gift purchased directly from ZebraLight, you will receive a gift certificate for the value of your return which may be used at any time toward your purchases at ZebraLight.com. The gift certificate will be emailed to you once the original product has been returned to ZebraLight (don't worry, we won't let the gift giver know about your return).

If you used a promotional code or certificate to pay for any part of an item that you want to return, you will be credited only the amount charged to your credit card. If you used a gift certificate to pay for any part of an item that you want to return, you will receive another certificate of equal value for future use.

***************************************************************************

That was copied and pasted directly from Zebralight's website. This company stands behind their products. 

I have to wonder how you could have possibly thought that you had already received a Mk III flashlight when it is stated in bold, bright red, letters that the Mk III is available for *PRE-ORDER *only and that *Shipping starts on Nov. 30, 2015. *

Regardless. If you don't want the Mk II L2 simply return it for a FULL REFUND and then you can Pre-order the Mk III and wait just like the rest of us. Problem solved.​


----------



## Glenn7

Yes they refunded $30 then after responded with 
"Hello Mr. Glenn7, 
We just realized that our factory in China shipped an older version of the SC600 to your SC600 Mk3 pre-order. We will refund $30 to your account to make it a $65 order, or you can choose to ship the light back to us for a full refund. Either way, you'll need to place another pre-order for the SC600(w) Mk3. Sorry for the mistake.

Best regards,

Lillian Xu
ZebraLightt" - I thought ZL was a USA company, I know they are made in China as is everything. 

So now I have $30 sitting in PP and a light I paid $83.90 ($113.90 with post then minus the $30 refund = $83.90) that I really didn't want - and if I want to return it at my expense/time @ $20 for post - will I get back my $20 postage?? It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes me not want to have anything to do with ZL.


----------



## TCY

It would be nice if they refund you $30 straightaway to cover the postage.


----------



## TCY

Wait.. when ZL talks about the $30 refund, is it in USD or AUD? If it's 30 AUD it's not technically a $30 refund to make the MK2 a 65 USD order, plus they are on sale @85 USD hence a $30 refund would make the order become 55 USD, or 78 AUD if Google exchange rate is to be trusted.


----------



## snowlover91

Glenn7 said:


> Yes they refunded $30 then after responded with
> "Hello Mr. Glenn7,
> We just realized that our factory in China shipped an older version of the SC600 to your SC600 Mk3 pre-order. We will refund $30 to your account to make it a $65 order, or you can choose to ship the light back to us for a full refund. Either way, you'll need to place another pre-order for the SC600(w) Mk3. Sorry for the mistake.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lillian Xu
> ZebraLightt" - I thought ZL was a USA company, I know they are made in China as is everything.
> 
> So now I have $30 sitting in PP and a light I paid $83.90 ($113.90 with post then minus the $30 refund = $83.90) that I really didn't want - and if I want to return it at my expense/time @ $20 for post - will I get back my $20 postage?? It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes me not want to have anything to do with ZL.



How did shipping cost you $30? I would contact them and let them know since it's their mistake you would like to get a full refund and the shipping cost refunded as well. I've never returned anything with them but I'm sure they will cover the shipping when it's a mistake they made. Also as a heads up it's generally not a good idea to post private communication with companies or individuals, a summary of their email would suffice.


----------



## fnsooner

So, based on the info discussed and pics we’ve seen, in the order of most floody, XM-L2>XHP35>XPL>XHP35 HI>XPL HI is accurate? Or would XM-L2=XHP35>XPL>XHP35 HI>XPL HI be more appropriate?

We’ve got a long wait.


----------



## twistedraven

Eh, I had to go back and edit my earlier post. I found pictures of a dedomed XML2 that's way more accurate than one where the dome is on. Looks like the XHP35 HD is a tad bit bigger. Not as large as XHP50 with its separated emitters, but a noticeable jump. Since XPL uses the XML2 die, but on a smaller footprint, it will be like this in terms of floodiness:

XHP35 HD > XML2 = XPL HD > XHP35 HI > XPL HI.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but the die size on XPL and XHP35 variants are the same for both HD and HI, the only difference is the dome over them makes the optical source effectively a little larger? The dome of the XML2 is quite large-- as large as its 5mm footprint, so the XML2 could in actuality be much floodier than what its die size indicates, and possibly be very close to XHP35HD, whose dome only just covers the die.


----------



## fnsooner

twistedraven said:


> in terms of floodiness:
> 
> XHP35 HD > XML2 = XPL HD > XHP35 HI > XPL HI.


This makes the MK III more desirable to me.


----------



## gottawearshades

So the Mk III will have *less* throw than the Mk II (not counting an HI version)in exchange for maybe 20% more lumens? And this means the SC63 will have no reach at all?

Like Billy Dee Williams says, "This deal is getting worse all the time!"

I'll wait to pick up another SC62w on clearance.


----------



## markr6

We're making a lot of assumptions. Even if the math checks out on paper, I still think this is a wait-and-see situation. Looking forward to a side by side comparison!


----------



## psychbeat

The larger spot of the 35 might be awesome in a new H600w ... 
Hope it's a tad warmer than the MKII W


----------



## Megaphobema

Has it already been mentioned that Zebralight themselves will be releasing dedomed versions of the Mk III in the next couple months?


----------



## Flashy808

Meanwhile we all wait.... Any word on the SC63??


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Flashy808 said:


> Meanwhile we all wait.... Any word on the SC63??



My thoughts exactly. I'm guessing Jan or Feb.


----------



## sdr

*I thought y'all could use a lil' teaser while you wait...

Coming Soon!


*​


----------



## fnsooner

@Glenn7. I don't blame you for being disappointed.


----------



## Glenn7

fnsooner said:


> @Glenn7. I don't blame you for being disappointed.


Thanks for caring buddy! Happy now. Got over my first world problem attitude and did 3 things, went out to work for 2 hours to cover cost of the first light (I'll sell it to a work mate or give to my mother n law as part of my now 25 year still running dowry  then pre-ordered another Mk3 and most happiest is I got to back the Atlas C57 on kickstarter.

I had in the past heard that ZL was a good brand but had not bought any because I always thought they were ugly (still do) but after having a few problems with Armytec and listening to all of you guy's comments here pushed me into getting one. Especially with the order stuff up I wanted to dislike this SC600 but function over form wins it is a great light THANK'S GUY'S!! :grouphug: :thumbsup:


----------



## markr6

Glenn7 said:


> but had not bought any because I always thought they were ugly (still do)



Same here  but I finally gave in...now I like the looks. Especially since the olive drab color is gone and it's more of a greyish color now.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

gottawearshades said:


> So the Mk III will have *less* throw than the Mk II (not counting an HI version)in exchange for maybe 20% more lumens? And this means the SC63 will have no reach at all?
> 
> Like Billy Dee Williams says, "This deal is getting worse all the time!"
> 
> I'll wait to pick up another SC62w on clearance.



If you want a thrower, you need to get a light with a larger reflector than what a pocket-light like the SC63 will have. I'd rather have a floody light in that size, anyway.

Zebralight doesn't make throwers. They make very bright, ultra-compact lights that are quite floody.


----------



## gottawearshades

OK.


WalkIntoTheLight said:


> If you want a thrower, you need to get a light with a larger reflector than what a pocket-light like the SC63 will have. I'd rather have a floody light in that size, anyway.
> 
> Zebralight doesn't make throwers. They make very bright, ultra-compact lights that are quite floody.


----------



## phantom23

Megaphobema said:


> Has it already been mentioned that Zebralight themselves will be releasing dedomed versions of the Mk III in the next couple months?


Which is going to be worse than if they put XP-L inside.


WalkIntoTheLight said:


> If you want a thrower, you need to get a light with a larger reflector than what a pocket-light like the SC63 will have. I'd rather have a floody light in that size, anyway.
> 
> Zebralight doesn't make throwers. They make very bright, ultra-compact lights that are quite floody.


It's not about having a thrower but nore balanced flood/throw ratio.


----------



## snowlover91

phantom23 said:


> Which is going to be worse than if they put XP-L inside.
> 
> It's not about having a thrower but nore balanced flood/throw ratio.



But it will be better than the XM-L2 previously available. They essentially have two lights, a brighter one which should have similar beam profile to the previous model or the HI version which should be a little better throw. I think it'll be a good upgrade and gives people options depending on what you want. I'm looking forward to seeing what 1300 lumens at 5700k will be like.


----------



## turkeylord

IMO, it would be better if the SC600 and SC62/3 were more differentiated. If I wanted a floody ~1000 lumen light, the SC62/3 does that in a more compact package. Sure, the SC600 will handle heat a bit better, but I don't think that's enough to justify it's existence.

Looking forward to some first hand reviews of course.


----------



## markr6

turkeylord said:


> IMO, it would be better if the SC600 and SC62/3 were more differentiated. If I wanted a floody ~1000 lumen light, the SC62/3 does that in a more compact package. Sure, the SC600 will handle heat a bit better, but I don't think that's enough to justify it's existence.
> 
> Looking forward to some first hand reviews of course.



I'm starting to wonder if ZL realized this and the SC63 will never come about. But in the end, I could maybe EDC an SC62; never the fat SC600. So that alone was worth having both options.


----------



## UTV2TiVo

The MKIII version looks thinner than the MKII but not as slim as the SC62. Hopefully someone who owns a MKII will order the MKIII and post pictures for comparison.
Yeah, not sure how ZL justifies selling both the SC600 and SC62 models since they are so close.


----------



## phantom23

turkeylord said:


> IMO, it would be better if the SC600 and SC62/3 were more differentiated. If I wanted a floody ~1000 lumen light, the SC62/3 does that in a more compact package. Sure, the SC600 will handle heat a bit better, but I don't think that's enough to justify it's existence.


Exactly! Especially now when they made SC600 even more floody.


----------



## holygeez03

I will be amazed if this new MKIII doesn't differentiate itself from the SC62 a LOT more than the MKII... we shall see.


----------



## snowlover91

phantom23 said:


> Exactly! Especially now when they made SC600 even more floody.



I think it's too early to make this claim since no one has a light in hand yet and all we are looking at are specs. We don't know if they may have slightly altered the reflector or how the XHP35 will perform or how the throw will be on the HI version either. A wait and see approach is better; then if the throw is worse we will have real life samples to compare.


----------



## Gordo

would someone clarify for me...
With all the speculation going around I've gotten a bit off track with what *is* going to happen. 
I know that an SC600 with an XHP35 is released and will be shipping later but are there other versions coming with different LED's? (XHP35 HI)


----------



## twistedraven

Yes, there will be an SC600 using the XHP35 HI, according to Zebralight.


----------



## simba23

Can someone please explain what the HI version is? I just know that it's going to have less Lumens, but maybe more throw and cri.


----------



## TCY

ZL spreadsheet claims that the XHP35 HI version will be announced later this month.


----------



## snowlover91

simba23 said:


> Can someone please explain what the HI version is? I just know that it's going to have less Lumens, but maybe more throw and cri.



It is essentially the same thing without a "dome" over the emitter. This allows for increased throw, depending on the design of the reflector and if it's mounted correctly I've seen the same light with an emitter that's dedomed increase throw by 50-60%, sometimes more or less.


----------



## simba23

Oic. I dedomed one of my xml2's by accident, and then it stopped working lol


----------



## simba23

I'm quite excited for this light. I preordered. I hope it comes by Christmas cuz I'm planning to go camping right after.


----------



## simba23

This is going to be my first nice flashlight. I usually buy the cheaper ones from AliExpress, ranging from $5-$25. Zebralight is known their their quality, bright flashlights in a tiny package!


----------



## snowlover91

simba23 said:


> This is going to be my first nice flashlight. I usually buy the cheaper ones from AliExpress, ranging from $5-$25. Zebralight is known their their quality, bright flashlights in a tiny package!



Yes if an emitter is damaged when manually dedomed it won't work or will have greatly reduced output. The HI version is one straight from the factory without the dome, it has a very wafer thin coating over the LED but that's it. The Zebralights are nice lights and once you get one you'll realize why they're pretty expensive; they're great lights with excellent UI and quality build. I started with the SC32w, then got a SC5w, SC5fd and SC62w. Now I'm contemplating one of the MK3 lights!


----------



## simba23

snowlover91 said:


> Yes if an emitter is damaged when manually dedomed it won't work or will have greatly reduced output. The HI version is one straight from the factory without the dome, it has a very wafer thin coating over the LED but that's it. The Zebralights are nice lights and once you get one you'll realize why they're pretty expensive; they're great lights with excellent UI and quality build. I started with the SC32w, then got a SC5w, SC5fd and SC62w. Now I'm contemplating one of the MK3 lights!



Wow, addicted much? Lol. Is zebralight your favorite brand? How many total flashlights do you have?


----------



## snowlover91

simba23 said:


> Wow, addicted much? Lol. Is zebralight your favorite brand? How many total flashlights do you have?



Lol yes welcome to the world of being a flashaholic! I would say they are my favorite brand currently due to the great runtimes, good tint options and excellent UI not to mention the tiny size of their SC32 and SC62 lights. I have a good variety of other lights mainly Nitecore and a few cheaper lights like Romisen and a few other cheap Chinese lights. A premium light like ZL is much better than any of those cheaper ones I have and you do get what you pay for. Their warranty and customer service is good as well. I'm holding off on the MK3 until I see reviews, at least that's what I keep telling myself...


----------



## sdr

simba23 said:


> This is going to be my first nice flashlight. I usually buy the cheaper ones from AliExpress, ranging from $5-$25. Zebralight is known their their quality, bright flashlights in a tiny package!



Simba,

I'm sure you'll be pleased once you finally get the new ZebraLight in your hands. This new Mk III will be my 4th SC600. I have carried one daily for 4 years now, going back to the original 750lm model which I acquired in Nov. 2011. And when the Mk II was released I purchased a cool white as well as a neutral (w) tint version of that model. I still use my original SC600 and it performs flawlessly. 

Here are a couple of pics to whet your appetite (mine, too) while we're waiting for the Mk III...












Aside from some wear on my original SC600's pocket clip it still looks and performs as good today as it did 4 years ago. So, indeed, ZebraLight makes a high quality product that is built to last a good-long time. 

And, if you'll permit me to make a suggestion or two ~ Be sure to use a quality 65mm (unprotected) battery with your new ZL when it gets to you. And since you've mention that this will be your first "quality" light ~ If you don't already have a good charger and multimeter? You'll want to invest in those 2 items, also.

Congratulations, my friend! You're gonna love your new light!


----------



## simba23

Nice sc600s! Great to hear that they last so long. Yes, I got 4 unprotected Panasonic cells and a XTAR vc2 charger that will show me how the true mah of the cell.


----------



## simba23

snowlover91 said:


> Lol yes welcome to the world of being a flashaholic! I would say they are my favorite brand currently due to the great runtimes, good tint options and excellent UI not to mention the tiny size of their SC32 and SC62 lights. I have a good variety of other lights mainly Nitecore and a few cheaper lights like Romisen and a few other cheap Chinese lights. A premium light like ZL is much better than any of those cheaper ones I have and you do get what you pay for. Their warranty and customer service is good as well. I'm holding off on the MK3 until I see reviews, at least that's what I keep telling myself...



Preorder an Mk iii, you can always sell it later  I almost bought the nitecore mh20, but I decided from the reviews of the beamshots, it doesn't compare to the flood:throw ratio of the Sc600 Mk ii. Then I found out there's a mkiii.... With a new type of led!!! Had to get it!


----------



## simba23

It looks like the Mk iii will be the darkest coloured compared to the previous


----------



## Flashy808

sdr said:


> Simba,
> 
> I'm sure you'll be pleased once you finally get the new ZebraLight in your hands. This new Mk III will be my 4th SC600. I have carried one daily for 4 years now, going back to the original 750lm model which I acquired in Nov. 2011. And when the Mk II was released I purchased a cool white as well as a neutral (w) tint version of that model. I still use my original SC600 and it performs flawlessly.
> 
> Here are a couple of pics to whet your appetite (mine, too) while we're waiting for the Mk III...



Just wondering, is that pixelation on the boot cover of the side switch on the MKII L2 or is it actually wear and tear? -even if it is, it did last 4 years or so! 

Also, has anybody else noticed that there is a small silver ring on the pic of the ZL SC600 MKIII (hidden slightly underneath the light)?? Or maybe it's just me  [emoji14]

Oh yeah, good pics btw.


----------



## sdr

Flashy808 said:


> Just wondering, is that pixelation on the boot cover of the side switch on the MKII L2 or is it actually wear and tear? -even if it is, it did last 4 years or so!



To answer your question...No, there isn't even any noticeable wear on the rubber switch cover on either light. What you're seeing in the photographs is just dead skin and/or debris. Both switches are in perfect condition. 

It's the original SC600, as seen in both pics, that I've had and used for 4 years. I got it in Nov. of 2011 and the Mk II L2 Cool White, also in the pictures I posted, in Nov. of 2014 - one year ago. I got the SC600w Mk II L2 in March of 2015. I have pre-ordered the new Mk III Cool White on Oct. 29 of 2015, just last month. And now I anxiously wait! 

BTW, there is a silver ring on the Mk II that is not on the Original Mk I. And there also appears to be a similar silver ring on the inner lip of the Mk III's bezel. Just like the Mk II. It looks like polished stainless steel. If that's what you're talking about?


----------



## moozooh

He's referring to the Mk III promo pic from ZL's newsletter. It has been positioned in such a way that the lanyard ring appears underneath.


----------



## markr6

Oh yeah I forgot about the lanyard attachment! It comes with a small splitring. I never installed mine since I wouldn't use it.


----------



## sdr

moozooh said:


> He's referring to the Mk III promo pic from ZL's newsletter. It has been positioned in such a way that the lanyard ring appears underneath.



Thanks for the clarification, Moozooh! Now I know what he was talking about. Yep, that's the lanyard ring. Which I find to be indispensable on this little light. I utilize that split ring to attach a paracord lanyard. See pics...









As you can see in the pictures, the lanyard is constructed using a small length of paracord, a bead and a cord closure (a knot would suffice). Once the lanyard loop is placed over the little finger the bead is then cinched up to secure the lanyard in place. Voila! Safe! Simple! Secure! That little lanyard ring is just one more reason why I love these little lights.
*
C'mon MK III ~ I can hardly wait to adorn you with a lanyard!*


----------



## simba23

I can't believe some people don't think the sc600 is edc size. It clearly is from that pic. That, or you're a giant


----------



## akhyar

simba23 said:


> I can't believe some people don't think the sc600 is edc size. It clearly is from that pic. That, or you're a giant



I used to EDC my SC600 mk1, until I got myself an Olight S1 Baton 
Having said that, if one needs to carry an 18650-based EDC, can't beat the SC600


----------



## moozooh

I think the complaints are from people who can't comfortably fit it into their jeans or shirt pocket, which is entirely understandable. I mainly carry it in my backback myself if it's warm enough outside to forgo wearing a jacket—in contrast with a small knife that fits in my zippo pocket and is so compact even airport security doesn't always notice it. It seems the line is so thin that SC600 is too large whereas SC62 is alright. Go figure.


----------



## sdr

simba23 said:


> I can't believe some people don't think the sc600 is edc size. It clearly is from that pic. That, or you're a giant



As I've mentioned throughout this thread, I have EDC'd an SC600 for 4 years. Of course I do have the luxury of wearing shorts virtually year round. I primarily carry my ZL in the cargo pocket. But as seen in the first pic, below, it can also be carried in the smaller conventional pockets quite easily as well. When wearing Levi's I have no problem carrying my ZL in the front pocket there, either. 

Bear in mind that the new Mk III will be even smaller than its predecessors. The original SC600 is the one seen in these pictures below, and it's considerably larger than either the Mk II L2 or Mk III. So, I have to wonder just how small a flashlight needs to be for some folks to consider it small enough to EDC? In my mind the Mk III will be EDC perfection!











I hope all of these pictures I'm posting are getting you real excited and anxious to get your first ZebraLight, Simba?

Cheers from your friend,

Paul Bunyan


----------



## holygeez03

I don't even consider my S62w to be EDC-size... or the SC52w for that matter since the clip is not deep-carry.... I EDC an H52Fw.

A friend of mine won't even EDC anything bigger than a AAA light.

So it's all very subjective/relative.


----------



## simba23

sdr said:


> As I've mentioned throughout this thread, I have EDC'd an SC600 for 4 years. Of course I do have the luxury of wearing shorts virtually year round. I primarily carry my ZL in the cargo pocket. But as seen in the first pic, below, it can also be carried in the smaller conventional pockets quite easily as well. When wearing Levi's I have no problem carrying my ZL in the front pocket there, either.
> 
> Bear in mind that the new Mk III will be even smaller than its predecessors. The original SC600 is the one seen in these pictures below, and it's considerably larger than either the Mk II L2 or Mk III. So, I have to wonder just how small a flashlight needs to be for some folks to consider it small enough to EDC? In my mind the Mk III will be EDC perfection!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope all of these pictures I'm posting are getting you real excited and anxious to get your first ZebraLight, Simba?
> 
> Cheers from your friend,
> 
> Paul Bunyan



Is that a flashlight in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?  yeah, all these pics and discussion is getting me excited!


----------



## simba23

akhyar said:


> I used to EDC my SC600 mk1, until I got myself an Olight S1 Baton
> Having said that, if one needs to carry an 18650-based EDC, can't beat the SC600



How many Lumens is the S1 Baton?


----------



## simba23

holygeez03 said:


> I don't even consider my S62w to be EDC-size... or the SC52w for that matter since the clip is not deep-carry.... I EDC an H52Fw.
> 
> A friend of mine won't even EDC anything bigger than a AAA light.
> 
> So it's all very subjective/relative.



The H52Fw is a headlamp right? Isn't that awkward to hold?


----------



## snowlover91

simba23 said:


> How many Lumens is the S1 Baton?



Its 400 or 450, can't remember which. Much better light is the Zebralight SC32w, gave one to my dad for his birthday and he loves it. Uses it daily and has it as his keychain light. Gives 480 lumens and instead of a timed step down its thermally regulated. Has excellent runtime also.


----------



## holygeez03

simba23 said:


> The H52Fw is a headlamp right? Isn't that awkward to hold?



Nope... and extremely useful as a "work light" due to the right-angle... never use it as a headlamp... I have a H502c for that. (also own the SC62w and SC52w BTW)

And if I'm not using the H52Fw as a work-light, I'm usually using it to light the ground beneath my feet, which is easier with a right-angle light if you thing about it. For me anyway...


----------



## Flashy808

sdr said:


> Thanks for the clarification, Moozooh! Now I know what he was talking about. Yep, that's the lanyard ring. Which I find to be indispensable on this little light. I utilize that split ring to attach a paracord lanyard. See pics...
> 
> ^^^
> 
> As you can see in the pictures, the lanyard is constructed using a small length of paracord, a bead and a cord closure (a knot would suffice). Once the lanyard loop is placed over the little finger the bead is then cinched up to secure the lanyard in place. Voila! Safe! Simple! Secure! That little lanyard ring is just one more reason why I love these little lights.
> *
> C'mon MK III ~ I can hardly wait to adorn you with a lanyard!*



Oh I understand, those rubber buttons do get a little dirty from time to time... :twothumbs
But that's a plus because it's definitely not broken or torn. 

Aha & sorry for the lack of detail, I would have posted an image showing the ring but my image hosting site is down for some reason (picasa)! :shrug:...


----------



## holygeez03

So am I correct that ZL still doesn't sell a battery/cell that fits the SC600 MKIII? Seems like a bad idea... Also, do we know what mAh was tested with the MKII, MKIII and SC62 for comparison?


----------



## akhyar

simba23 said:


> How many Lumens is the S1 Baton?



Max lumens is 500, which drop to 300 lumens after 90 seconds on max.
But if one uses his flashlight quite often throughout the day, makes more sense to get the SC600 due to longer runtime


----------



## simba23

akhyar said:


> Max lumens is 500, which drop to 300 lumens after 90 seconds on max.
> But if one uses his flashlight quite often throughout the day, makes more sense to get the SC600 due to longer runtime



And more powweeeeerrr!


----------



## UnderPar

simba23 said:


> How many Lumens is the S1 Baton?



Check the Olight S1 thread. It also has a review thread here. Just to give you an idea. Its 500 lumens at max for 3 mins..


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

The 30mm head is a bit chunky for EDC, compared with ~25mm (or smaller) on the SC62, or others, e.g. EagleTac offerings.


----------



## simba23

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> The 30mm head is a bit chunky for EDC, compared with ~25mm (or smaller) on the SC62, or others, e.g. EagleTac offerings.



Perhaps, but I think it'll be perfect for me, as I need a floody light that the bigger reflector offers for biking to work.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Yeah, it's awesome for a bicycle light, better than the SC62.


----------



## simba23

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Yeah, it's awesome for a bicycle light, better than the SC62.



Do you use it for biking?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

simba23 said:


> Do you use it for biking?



I use the SC5w as a (short duration) bike light, so I presume the SC63 or MKIII will be even better. I'm going to get one or the other, and use it as a bike light instead, for the extra run-time. Just waiting to see the early reviews to determine which is better to get. I was leaning towards getting the SC63, but the other one looks tempting.


----------



## simba23

Have a question about runtime for the brightest mode. It says "PID, approx 2.2 hrs)". What does pid mean?


----------



## kj2

simba23 said:


> Have a question about runtime for the brightest mode. It says "PID, approx 2.2 hrs)". What does pid mean?


PID thermal regulated outputs - 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller


----------



## simba23

I'm wondering if I should cancel my order for the blf a6 light cuz that has 45 seconds only for the 1600 lumen mode, then it steps down to 700 Lumens. 45 seconds is much too short. I hope the mk3 doesn't do this too.


----------



## simba23

kj2 said:


> PID thermal regulated outputs -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller



I can't understand it lol. Too complicated! What does it mean in English?


----------



## Lumencrazy

simba23 said:


> I can't understand it lol. Too complicated! What does it mean in English?



It is written in English


----------



## kj2

simba23 said:


> I can't understand it lol. Too complicated! What does it mean in English?


"Example: Temperature Control using a Digital PID controller: A typical PID temperature controller application could be to continuously vary a regulator which can alter a process temperature. This may be a pulsed switching device for electrical heaters or by opening and closing a gas valve. A heat only PID temperature controller uses a reverse output action, i.e. more power is applied when the temperature is below the setpoint and less power when above."
http://www.datatrackpi.com/technical-papers/how-do-pid-controllers-work.html

So to relate it back to a flashlight. When it gets to hot, it throttles down the output. And when it's below a certain temperature, the output goes up.


----------



## simba23

kj2 said:


> "Example: Temperature Control using a Digital PID controller: A typical PID temperature controller application could be to continuously vary a regulator which can alter a process temperature. This may be a pulsed switching device for electrical heaters or by opening and closing a gas valve. A heat only PID temperature controller uses a reverse output action, i.e. more power is applied when the temperature is below the setpoint and less power when above."
> http://www.datatrackpi.com/technical-papers/how-do-pid-controllers-work.html
> 
> So to relate it back to a flashlight. When it gets to hot, it throttles down the output. And when it's below a certain temperature, the output goes up.



Thanks. Cancelled the blf a6 light. I think the sc600 mkiii is gonna be better. Plus the blf is out of stock anyways. 

What do you guys think? Blf a6 or sc600 Mk III?


----------



## kj2

simba23 said:


> Thanks. Cancelled the blf a6 light. I think the sc600 mkiii is gonna be better. Plus the blf is out of stock anyways.
> 
> What do you guys think? Blf a6 or sc600 Mk III?



ZL.


----------



## emarkd

You're comparing a $25 light to a $100 light. If course the zebra is a better light, and its worth the money in my opinion. 

The A6 is really impressive for its price though, and is really worth quite a bit more than is price would indicate. They're both good lights. So why not both?


----------



## akhyar

simba23 said:


> Thanks. Cancelled the blf a6 light. I think the sc600 mkiii is gonna be better. Plus the blf is out of stock anyways.
> 
> What do you guys think? Blf a6 or sc600 Mk III?



4x BLF A6s = 1x SC600 mk3 
But if you only need 1 light for EDC, maybe an SC600.
But for flashlight collectors like us, we'll get both. Lol!


----------



## simba23

Whew! I'm glad the zebralight is still better. I really only need 1 edc light. I want the brightest yet smallest one possible. Hard to justify buying another when I haven't even received it yet!


----------



## simba23

It seems from the specs that the xpl emitter (max 1200lumens) isn't as powerful as the xhp35 (max 1700)


----------



## snowlover91

simba23 said:


> I can't understand it lol. Too complicated! What does it mean in English?



Basically instead of timed step downs you get the highest possible output based on the environmental conditions and internal temp. If for example it's cold outdoors or there is a breeze, typically the PID controlled lights will stay right at the max output for as long as the battery allows. If it's hot or no air circulation it drops the brightness some. It's interesting to see Selfbuilts tests where he will let a light drop in brightness due to heating up then point a fan towards it and the brightness goes right back up. It's a huge advantage over timed step downs.


----------



## gunga

The A6 is designed as a $25 blow torch. It can work for Edc but reliability may be spotty. Great value, great features. Just don't expect the same reliability you (should) get with zebralight. Note, it's not meant to run on turbo (1200-1500 lumens) for long periods. If you don't burn your hand things will start melting etc.


----------



## snowlover91

gunga said:


> The A6 is designed as a $25 blow torch. It can work for Edc but reliability may be spotty. Great value, great features. Just don't expect the same reliability you (should) get with zebralight. Note, it's not meant to run on turbo (1200-1500 lumens) for long periods. If you don't burn your hand things will start melting etc.



You mean the A6 isn't meant to run long periods right? I think the ZL are fine to run at the highest mode since they have PID in them.


----------



## gunga

Yes. The A6. It gets REALLY hot.


----------



## snowlover91

gunga said:


> Yes. The A6. It gets REALLY hot.



Pulling 5 amps I can imagine it would lol. I wonder what the current draw will be from the new MK3 lights? Anyone measure current draw on the MK2?


----------



## simba23

How much current draw for the mkiii? Very helpful and interesting discussion people.


----------



## snowlover91

simba23 said:


> How much current draw for the mkiii? Very helpful and interesting discussion people.



Once some get their lights by early December hopefully someone can test it! Anyone with a MK2 who can test current draw?


----------



## sdr

snowlover91 said:


> Once some get their lights by early December hopefully someone can test it! Anyone with a MK2 who can test current draw?



The answers to any questions about the SC600 Mk II L2 can probably be found in _selfbuilt's_ comprehensive review, here: http://tinyurl.com/SelfBuilt-Review-SC600MkIIL2 (The Search Engine is your friend)


----------



## snowlover91

sdr said:


> The answers to any questions about the SC600 Mk II L2 can probably be found in _selfbuilt's_ comprehensive review, here: http://tinyurl.com/SelfBuilt-Review-SC600MkIIL2 (The Search Engine is your friend)




Thanks, but unfortunately didn't see anything about tailcap measurements/current draw unless I somehow missed it? I'm not looking for standby drain measurements but actual measurements across the turbo and high modes.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

For the SC63, it would seem that the 1300 with same or tiny better runtimes on the mkiii gives a ceiling. Maybe the SC63 will be at 1200 with similar runtimes? I don't own a 62, so to those who do, is it conceivable that they reduce the size in any way?


----------



## markr6

The SC62 already gets hotter than hell. I'm sure they can push out some more lumens, but at the expense of safety/practicability.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> The SC62 already gets hotter than hell. I'm sure they can push out some more lumens, but at the expense of safety/practicability.



They use PID to prevent the light getting too hot. I'm okay with PID kicking in soon, on the rare occasion I want to run it on max. In winter, I can run in on max without PID kicking in to step-down the light. I prefer that to a timed step-down.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> They use PID to prevent the light getting too hot. I'm okay with PID kicking in soon, on the rare occasion I want to run it on max. In winter, I can run in on max without PID kicking in to step-down the light. I prefer that to a timed step-down.



Yeah, that's true. Even then, it get hot so fast. An more lumens and it almost seems pointless.


----------



## holygeez03

I don't even find the 1000lm H1 mode to be all that much more beneficial to the 600lm H2... so if the SC63 increases by a couple hundred lumens, that's probably nothing... unless it stays way cooler.


----------



## twistedraven

Highest outputs aren't much to me either. Granted, the PID of Zebralights are better than a timed stepdown, I'm interested in the 360 lumen mode for 4 hours 20 minutes on the new Cool White MK3. Dunno what battery they tested to get those runtimes, but hopefully the 3500mah unprotected I picked up can stretch that even a little more.


----------



## sdr

twistedraven said:


> Highest outputs aren't much to me either. Granted, the PID of Zebralights are better than a timed stepdown, I'm interested in the 360 lumen mode for 4 hours 20 minutes on the new Cool White MK3. Dunno what battery they tested to get those runtimes, but hopefully the 3500mah unprotected I picked up can stretch that even a little more.



What are the measurements on that 3500mAh battery you scored? Most specifically the length? Being restricted to 65mm in the Mk III eliminates most of the 18650's currently available (as we've discussed previously), especially the protected variants. I guess I'm also curious, who makes a 65mm 3500mAh battery?


----------



## twistedraven

It's 65.5mm. Time will tell if it fits. Most batteries are spec'd to a +/- .5mm length.


----------



## sdr

twistedraven said:


> It's 65.5mm. Time will tell if it fits. Most batteries are spec'd to a +/- .5mm length.



Thanks! After I asked my question I Googled a couple that come in a tad shorter than what you've found.

LG makes this one...

*Product Description*



Brand: LG Chem
Model: INR18650MJ1
Size: 18650
Chemistry: INR
Nominal Capacity: 3500mAh
Nominal Voltage: 3.6V
Discharge: 10A Continuous
Positive: Flat
Protected: No
Rechargeable: Yes
Dimensions: 18.30mm x 65.10mm
Weight: 46.9g

And Imren makes this one...

*Product Description*



Brand: IMREN
Model:
Size: 18650
Chemistry: IMR
Nominal Capacity: 3500mAh
Nominal Voltage: 3.7V
Discharge: 30A Pulse
Positive: Flat
Protected: No
Rechargeable: Yes
Dimensions: 18.39mm x 65.27mm
Weight: 46.9g

But note the difference in chemistry - LG is INR and Imren is IMR - I believe that these batteries are best suited for vaping? 

For now however I think I'm just gonna stick with my Panasonic 3400mAh NCR18650B's and see how they fare once my Mk III gets here. I'm also curious to find out just how tight the tolerances really are when attempting to fit some of these fractionally larger cells into the light itself? I mean, can the MK III forgive a cell that is 0.25mm larger than the spec sheet's 65mm length? Much less ½mm larger? I guess it will all depend upon how ZL designed the tailcap? More wait n' see. We're gettin' closer, though. Only a couple more weeks before they start shipping to countries other than the U.S. And 10 days after that for us in the U.S. (Hopefully, he said with finger's crossed).


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

In my usage of the SC600 MKii L2, I use H1 the way I would use hi-beams in a car - for short bursts. The light never ends up getting hot at all.


----------



## simba23

sdr said:


> Thanks! After I asked my question I Googled a couple that come in a tad shorter than what you've found.
> 
> LG makes this one...
> 
> *Product Description*
> 
> 
> 
> Brand: LG Chem
> Model: INR18650MJ1
> Size: 18650
> Chemistry: INR
> Nominal Capacity: 3500mAh
> Nominal Voltage: 3.6V
> Discharge: 10A Continuous
> Positive: Flat
> Protected: No
> Rechargeable: Yes
> Dimensions: 18.30mm x 65.10mm
> Weight: 46.9g
> 
> And Imren makes this one...
> 
> *Product Description*
> 
> 
> 
> Brand: IMREN
> Model:
> Size: 18650
> Chemistry: IMR
> Nominal Capacity: 3500mAh
> Nominal Voltage: 3.7V
> Discharge: 30A Pulse
> Positive: Flat
> Protected: No
> Rechargeable: Yes
> Dimensions: 18.39mm x 65.27mm
> Weight: 46.9g
> 
> But note the difference in chemistry - LG is INR and Imren is IMR - I believe that these batteries are best suited for vaping?
> 
> For now however I think I'm just gonna stick with my Panasonic 3400mAh NCR18650B's and see how they fare once my Mk III gets here. I'm also curious to find out just how tight the tolerances really are when attempting to fit some of these fractionally larger cells into the light itself? I mean, can the MK III forgive a cell that is 0.25mm larger than the spec sheet's 65mm length? Much less ½mm larger? I guess it will all depend upon how ZL designed the tailcap? More wait n' see. We're gettin' closer, though. Only a couple more weeks before they start shipping to countries other than the U.S. And 10 days after that for us in the U.S. (Hopefully, he said with finger's crossed).



This is the one time that living in Canada might be better for buying stuff than the states! I wonder why they are shipping internationally before their home country?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

simba23 said:


> This is the one time that living in Canada might be better for buying stuff than the states! I wonder why they are shipping internationally before their home country?



My mistake.

Chris


----------



## sdr

ChrisGarrett said:


> Didn't IMREN shut down IMR production to switch over to hybrid chemistries?
> 
> Chris



I certainly don't get that impression when I visit their website: http://www.imr-battery.com/


----------



## ChrisGarrett

sdr said:


> I certainly don't get that impression when I visit their website: http://www.imr-battery.com/



Sorry, I just came here to edit my post.

It's MNKE that's retooling, at least that's the gist that I got when I researched them two weeks back.

Sorry for the confusion.

Chris


----------



## sdr

ChrisGarrett said:


> Sorry, I just came here to edit my post.
> 
> It's MNKE that's retooling, at least that's the gist that I got when I researched them two weeks back.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Chris



No worries, mate! 

Onward and Upward, eh!


----------



## ChrisGarrett

sdr said:


> No worries, mate!
> 
> Onward and Upward, eh!



I'm pretty well versed in li-ion cells and NiMH batteries and I hang out on our battery forum often, but there are so many freakin' cells and batteries hitting the market, that it's tough to keep all of the brands and models straight in my head!

Chris


----------



## Marley62781

I'm exited, I ordered the sc600 mkiii cool white. I don't get how 200 more lumens won't throw more? I see it as another double click past H1. The new fins over the non existent ones should help runtime. Hopefully it has the sc5 style battery cover. They test all zebralight 18650 lights with their own re wrapped Panasonic 3400mah greenish batterys. So far I have a h32 cw, sc5 cw, h600 cw, sc62 cw, sc600 mkii cw, and a sc600 mii l2 cw and the mkiii on order I'm a fan of zebralight!!!!! Also a niwalker mm 15 nova since zebralight stopped making the sc6330 that I always tried to get. And my armytek collection, their close 2nd to zebralight in my honest opinion. So only 13 more days till shipping, YES.


----------



## pomah

In my eyes if the spec sheets says 65 mm, it has up to 0,5 mm tolerance, if it says 65,0 mm then it has a 0,05 in tolerance...


----------



## ChrisGarrett

pomah said:


> In my eyes if the spec sheets says 65 mm, it has up to 0,5 mm tolerance, if it says 65,0 mm then it has a 0,05 in tolerance...



65mm, 65.5mm and even 66mm are going to mean unprotected cells. Most 18650 rated PCBs are going to be about 2.5mm-5mm, so that's going to be a no-go by any measure.

Now, with a 2.7v cutoff, that's probably not a problem, but I can't figure out why in the heck ZL can't make their tubes a few mm longer, to accommodate a protected cell.

It's not like that would be too hard to do, right?

Chris


----------



## InspectHerGadget

ChrisGarrett said:


> 65mm, 65.5mm and even 66mm are going to mean unprotected cells. Most 18650 rated PCBs are going to be about 2.5mm-5mm, so that's going to be a no-go by any measure.
> 
> Now, with a 2.7v cutoff, that's probably not a problem, but I can't figure out why in the heck ZL can't make their tubes a few mm longer, to accommodate a protected cell.
> 
> It's not like that would be too hard to do, right?
> 
> Chris



I agree. Maybe it is part of going for the smallest light with an 18650 world record. I ordered some cells that are unprotected flat tops, in antici....pation.


----------



## simba23

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the driver is smart enough to regulate the power that it doesn't need to use protected cells. Zebralight wouldn't have otherwise designed it like this is if couldn't handle unprotected cells... They are fully aware of the risks and Def wouldn't want any lawsuits.


----------



## holygeez03

I'm guessing this means ZL is moving to the telescoping posts in the MKIII (is this known yet?) and that's why there is a more strict battery length limit... the posts must offer some advantage with current and/or reliability... but if ZL makes the tube long enough for a 67mm cell, then the modern high draw, high capacity cells like the GA's will be too short for the battery posts. This also means that ZL will probably be choosing a 3400 - 3500 mAh unprotected cell to re-brand and sell.


----------



## akhyar

Considering that some of the newest lights, like those designed at the other forum are utilising high-drain circuit, I think it is timely for ZL to use non-protected battery considering some of those high-drain batteries are flat-top stock batteries like Samsung 30Q, LG Chocolate, Sony VTC5 and the two 3500mAh batteries are also rated upto 10A continuously


----------



## holygeez03

It makes sense for ZL since they trust their cutoff protection... but I agree with some on here that charging unprotected cells is a little concerning (warranted or not).


----------



## markr6

holygeez03 said:


> It makes sense for ZL since they trust their cutoff protection... but I agree with some on here that charging unprotected cells is a little concerning (warranted or not).



Let those worriers charge their cells out in the driveway surrounded by cinder blocks with a fire extinguisher at the ready


----------



## holygeez03

Or those fire-proof bags that I have seen some vendors selling (may not be a bad idea).


----------



## snowlover91

holygeez03 said:


> It makes sense for ZL since they trust their cutoff protection... but I agree with some on here that charging unprotected cells is a little concerning (warranted or not).



The light will also step down when the cell is no longer able to support the brightness level at regulation. My SC5fd and SC62w both do this. With my SC62w the battery voltage was around 3.3-3.4v when the step down occurred, showing me it was time to charge it. That's the first indication you should have that the voltage is getting low. You'd have to keep running it for awhile at reduced output to hit the over discharge protection. For me when my light steps down I go ahead and charge that battery, pretty easy. They probably use unprotected because the new circuit and led will be pulling some serious juice from the battery and protected cells likely didn't allow for the same performance that unprotected offered. Likewise I think the tail cap will be like the SC5 lights, it's a great design imo and I now prefer that over a spring. Also prevents the end of the battery from getting all scratched up.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

snowlover91 said:


> Likewise I think the tail cap will be like the SC5 lights, it's a great design imo and I now prefer that over a spring. Also prevents the end of the battery from getting all scratched up.



The issue with the SC5 tailcap "springs", is that they are specifically made for Eneloops. If you use a battery just slightly shorter, then the little "springs" don't contact the battery and the light won't work. (You can add a bit of tinfoil to extend the length of battery, but that's a hack.)

This is okay for the SC5, because it is specifically made to use Eneloops. Eneloops are at the large part of the AA allowable spec range for length and width.

I don't think they should do the same thing with the SC63. 18500 cells vary widely in length. The SC63 need an old-fashioned spring to allow for these differences in length.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The issue with the SC5 tailcap "springs", is that they are specifically made for Eneloops. If you use a battery just slightly shorter, then the little "springs" don't contact the battery and the light won't work. (You can add a bit of tinfoil to extend the length of battery, but that's a hack.)
> 
> This is okay for the SC5, because it is specifically made to use Eneloops. Eneloops are at the large part of the AA allowable spec range for length and width.
> 
> I don't think they should do the same thing with the SC63. 18500 cells vary widely in length. The SC63 need an old-fashioned spring to allow for these differences in length.



That's a good thought. I forgot about the SC5 deal. I had two separate AAs that would not work at all in my SC5. I didn't care since an Eneloop is ALL I WILL USE, but still, something to consider. Especially with 18650 sizes like you said.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

@markr6 Curious why you would only use Eneloops - why omit L91's as a possibility?


----------



## markr6

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> @markr6 Curious why you would only use Eneloops - why omit L91's as a possibility?



I bought a small pack of L91s for backup. I keep them in my car for emergencies, but never had to use them yet in any of my lights. And the SC5 is really the only AA-format light I use. Most of my lights are 1x18650.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> That's a good thought. I forgot about the SC5 deal. I had two separate AAs that would not work at all in my SC5. I didn't care since an Eneloop is ALL I WILL USE, but still, something to consider. Especially with 18650 sizes like you said.



True, however it's designed specifically for Eneloop batteries and works well with them. This one is designed for unprotected cells and most that I've seen measure between 65-65.5mm in length. They may possibly make a little extra space in the rounded tailcap springs to account for +-.5mm in length for the unprotected cells. It certainly will be interesting to see, waiting for shipment notifications!


----------



## markr6

I'm getting off topic, but with the tens of thousands of JunkFire unprotected cells sold already, plus so many more quality unprotected cells, has any flashlight manufacturer OR battery manufacturer been sued or held accountable? I know about some vaping explosions of people getting hurt, but even then, was the battery manufacturer sued?

I can't think of any. I'm guessing the number is small. So maybe ZL figured it was OK to rely on a quality low voltage protection in the light and not worry about the protected cells. I know I'm fine with it. I'm fine with unprotected cells in ANY light for that matter.


----------



## holygeez03

Wouldn't it be very difficult to sue a manufacturer in China?

If the tolerance is rather tight, it will be interesting to see if there is a significant issue with any unprotected 18650 cells not fitting in the SC63... as of now, ZL still doesn't sell an 18650 that fits their own SC63 model... seems like that's asking for trouble.

It would be really cool if ZL selected a high quality cell and included it with the light since they could bulk-buy them for very cheap and it would alleviate a lot of quality/fit issues. 

A $95 light that doesn't include a battery and could have fit issues with common batteries on the market could be a problem...


----------



## snowlover91

I'm still waiting for an announcement for the HI version of this light. Anyone hear how soon this may be announced? I thought they said the week after the regular MK3 was announced they would open up the HI version for preorder also?


----------



## markr6

They're probably watching this thread laughing...."man, we got them all riled up!"

Less than 2 weeks away for shipping! I can't wait to come back here and see how many assumptions we got wrong.


----------



## Kavlax

markr6 said:


> Less than 2 weeks away for shipping!



So it sounds like I should wait on a SC62 purchase and check these out.


----------



## simba23

You guys see the thread for the nitecore mh20 neutral? There's a groubuy for it. Anyone getting it? Sorry, off topic


----------



## 18650

ChrisGarrett said:


> 65mm, 65.5mm and even 66mm are going to mean unprotected cells. Most 18650 rated PCBs are going to be about 2.5mm-5mm, so that's going to be a no-go by any measure. Now, with a 2.7v cutoff, that's probably not a problem, but I can't figure out why in the heck ZL can't make their tubes a few mm longer, to accommodate a protected cell. It's not like that would be too hard to do, right? Chris


 I thought it was decided that they don't want people using protected cells because high mode would trip the circuit on pretty much all of them? Why are people still on this?


----------



## KeepingItLight

18650 said:


> I thought it was decided that they don't want people using protected cells because high mode would trip the circuit on pretty much all of them? Why are people still on this?



I have long speculated that the change to an unprotected battery was motivated by current demands of the new ZebraLight driver. We will know if that is right when someone puts an ammeter on one. As you say, I think that the current level will be high enough that the protection circuits on some protected batteries would be tripped by it.

By the way, if you attempt a current measurement, the best time to measure is when your battery is low. That is when the current demanded by ZebraLight's boost driver will be the highest.

Ditto regarding battery posts. My guess—and it is only a guess—is that the spring is being replaced as a way to decrease resistance to current flow. 

In some recent posts, the writers seem to be oblivious to these ideas. They complain, once again, that ZebraLight is making the changes only because it wants to save a couple of piddling millimeters in size.




KeepingItLight said:


> I do not know the fact, but it is possible that using an unprotected cell will make it easier to boost the 3.7v of a Li-ion battery up to the 11.3v needed by the *Cree XPH35* emitter.
> 
> Boost circuits trade low voltage and high current (i.e., their battery input) in order to produce high voltage and low current (i.e., the driver output that is fed to the emitter). It is possible that the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III* will require high-draw batteries (which are generally unprotected) to perform this feat, but that is only my speculation.
> 
> If that is right, it would be driver requirements, rather than a desire for smaller size, that dictated a switch to an unprotected battery.






KeepingItLight said:


> Now that ZebraLight is using pins instead of springs in the tail caps of some of its models, we may (or may not) see a general switch away from tail-cap springs. It is telling, however, that the first models to use pins were the SC5 and now the SC600 Mk. III.
> 
> Both of those place higher current demands their respective batteries than earlier ZebraLight models ever did. I do not know the fact, but my guess is that higher current demands, rather than an interest to reduce size, first triggered the switch to pins.
> 
> I don't know how you feel about it, but for me, the best thing about the pins is the lower resistance they have compared a spring. Lower resistance means more voltage available for the driver.
> 
> Overclocker estimates the Mk. III will be pulling 5+ amps. At that level, you are getting into territory where the resistance of a spring matters.


----------



## Megaphobema

I pre-ordered the new SC600w Mk III Neutral White last week.

Previously, for a Fenix PD35 I had ordered a couple Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA protected 3500 mAh cells ... These --> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=289&sort=rating&order=DESC ... Working excellently for the PD35.

I now want to order a couple UNprotected 3500 mAh 18650 cells for my SC600 Mk III on order. The previously mentioned protected cells will not fit, correct, being too long? Additionally, I understand that for this flashlight, with integrated, superior protective circuitry using unprotected cells are preferable, anyway.
_________________________

Which of these two cells should I order? The button top or the flat top? ...

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=545&sort=rating&order=DESC

- OR -

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=545&sort=rating&order=DESC

Thank you, in advance, for any and all responses ...


----------



## sdr

Megaphobema said:


> I now want to order a couple UNprotected 3500 mAh 18650 cells for my SC600 Mk III on order. The previously mentioned unprotected cells will not fit, correct, being too long? Additionally, I understand that for this flashlight, with integrated, superior protective circuitry using unprotected cells are preferable, anyway.
> _________________________
> 
> Which of these two cells should I order? The button top or the flat top? ...
> 
> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=545&sort=rating&order=DESC
> 
> - OR -
> 
> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=545&sort=rating&order=DESC
> 
> Thank you, in advance, for any and all responses ...



Unless I'm missing something, I believe you posted the same link twice? They appear to be the same battery and hopefully the Mk III will allow for a +.5mm additional length as these are 65.5mm?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

18650 said:


> I thought it was decided that they don't want people using protected cells because high mode would trip the circuit on pretty much all of them? Why are people still on this?



Most 18650 PCBs trip at between 7A-8A, so that's not it.

My original SC600 CW on turbo doesn't hit more than 3A.

They had problems with battery fitment back then.

Chris


----------



## KeepingItLight

ChrisGarrett said:


> Most 18650 PCBs trip at between 7A-8A, so that's not it.
> 
> My original SC600 CW on turbo doesn't hit more than 3A.
> 
> They had problems with battery fitment back then.
> 
> Chris



SC600 Mk. II L2: Buck/boost driver, emitter voltage near 3.1 volts.

SC600 Mk. III: Boost driver, nominal emitter voltage 11.3 volts.

Many users will run using older 2600mAh and 2300mAh LiCoO2 batteries. When voltage gets low on one of those, say around 3.0 volts under load, what current do you think will be needed to boost output to 11.3 volts? My guess is substantially more than 3 amps. What current will trip the protection on one of these batteries? I don't know.

We have seen in this thread that ZebraLight alienates many loyal owners by switching away from protected batteries. As some of them are not willing to make the change, ZebraLight will lose some customers over this. Certainly, ZebraLight understands this. It is my opinion that ZebraLight would not make this change merely to save a couple of millimeters in size. Obviously, I do not have any inside knowledge, but my guess is that engineering considerations—not size—is dictating the change.


----------



## texas cop

KeepingItLight said:


> SC600 Mk. II L2: Buck/boost driver, emitter voltage near 3.1 volts.
> 
> SC600 Mk. III: Boost driver, nominal emitter voltage 11.3 volts.
> 
> Many users will run using older 2600mAh and 2300mAh LiCoO2 batteries. When voltage gets low on one of those, say around 3.0 volts under load, what current do you think will be needed to boost output to 11.3 volts? My guess is substantially more than 3 amps. What current will trip the protection on one of these batteries? I don't know.
> 
> We have seen in this thread that ZebraLight alienates many loyal owners by switching away from protected batteries. As some of them are not willing to make the change, ZebraLight will lose some customers over this. Certainly, ZebraLight understands this. It is my opinion that ZebraLight would not make this change merely to save a couple of millimeters in size. Obviously, I do not have any inside knowledge, but my guess is that engineering considerations—not size—is dictating the change.



My thought for what they might be worth is that ZebraLight designed a driver that needs more current than some PCB's might allow. So they designed it too short for protected circuits and placed their own into the electronics eliminates that issue. 2nd problem they will encounter is that all 18650's are not created equal. So a list of batteries will be made on what works the best and that one will be up to ZebraLight and users on this forum to figure out. 3rd until we see some reports on current draws and performance all of this is conjecture.


----------



## snowlover91

Megaphobema said:


> I pre-ordered the new SC600w Mk III Neutral White last week.
> 
> Previously, for a Fenix PD35 I had ordered a couple Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA protected 3500 mAh cells ... These --> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=289&sort=rating&order=DESC ... Working excellently for the PD35.
> 
> I now want to order a couple UNprotected 3500 mAh 18650 cells for my SC600 Mk III on order. The previously mentioned protected cells will not fit, correct, being too long? Additionally, I understand that for this flashlight, with integrated, superior protective circuitry using unprotected cells are preferable, anyway.
> _________________________
> 
> Which of these two cells should I order? The button top or the flat top? ...
> 
> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=545&sort=rating&order=DESC
> 
> - OR -
> 
> http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=545&sort=rating&order=DESC
> 
> Thank you, in advance, for any and all responses ...



It's hard to know for sure if these will work but I assume they will be short enough. Definitely the flat top as button will be longer and likely wouldn't fit. I have the flat top and they're excellent batteries.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

KeepingItLight said:


> SC600 Mk. II L2: Buck/boost driver, emitter voltage near 3.1 volts.
> 
> SC600 Mk. III: Boost driver, nominal emitter voltage 11.3 volts.
> 
> Many users will run using older 2600mAh and 2300mAh LiCoO2 batteries. When voltage gets low on one of those, say around 3.0 volts under load, what current do you think will be needed to boost output to 11.3 volts? My guess is substantially more than 3 amps. What current will trip the protection on one of these batteries? I don't know.
> 
> We have seen in this thread that ZebraLight alienates many loyal owners by switching away from protected batteries. As some of them are not willing to make the change, ZebraLight will lose some customers over this. Certainly, ZebraLight understands this. It is my opinion that ZebraLight would not make this change merely to save a couple of millimeters in size. Obviously, I do not have any inside knowledge, but my guess is that engineering considerations—not size—is dictating the change.



My point was that ZL has had short cell specifications well before the Mk III light. I remember buying my SC600 in 5/12 and having to worry about my new ET 3100s fitting and they were known to be one of the shorter protected 3100s at the time. They did work and worked well until I moved on to naked cells.

If the new Mk III hits 5As as was mentioned above, older li-co cells probably aren't a great fit to begin with, if one wants to get any cycle life out of them.

Since this is 2015 and quality hi-cap 10A+ hybrids are a dime a dozen, ZL needs to put a 'caveat' on their lights specifying one of these newer and naked hybrids, which shouldn't be that much of a problem for the user.

After all, their SC5 is speced for the 2500mAh Eneloop Pro, right?

We do have the new NCR18650GA cells with 10A PCB protection onboard, so we can still have a place in the Mk III for them, albeit with a more narrow focus.

Chris


----------



## keeperofdakeys

KeepingItLight said:


> We have seen in this thread that ZebraLight alienates many loyal owners by switching away from protected batteries. As some of them are not willing to make the change, ZebraLight will lose some customers over this. Certainly, ZebraLight understands this. It is my opinion that ZebraLight would not make this change merely to save a couple of millimeters in size. Obviously, I do not have any inside knowledge, but my guess is that engineering considerations—not size—is dictating the change.


Don't forget that they've announced an SC63 for release this year (or at this rate, early next year). It'll be interesting to see whether this will only take unprotected cells, or use the same LED as the SC600 mkIII. The SC600 mkIII doesn't have to be for everyone.


----------



## KeepingItLight

ChrisGarrett said:


> If the new Mk III hits 5As as was mentioned above, older li-co cells probably aren't a great fit to begin with, if one wants to get any cycle life out of them.



I really think you have put your finger on something here. I was going to make this point if you had not. At 5-6 amps, even for batteries like the NCR18650B, which, in theory, can handle that load, you are not anywhere the "sweet" spot. Early on, ZebraLight must have decided that a high-draw battery was going to be mandatory for the new driver it was designing.

Now factor in the advantage of using posts instead a spring in the tail cap. I believe that change makes a significant difference at higher currents. For the reasons stated in this post, I think the posts have lower resistance to current flow than a spring would. My theory is that reducing resistance is the primary reason ZebraLight is using posts instead of a spring. 

Once ZebraLight has made these two decisions, both of which are motivated by electronics, rather than size, it can then consider the ramifications for battery and flashlight size. It doesn't take very long to realize that the absence of a spring means the flashlight will not be able to handle as wide a variety of battery sizes. From there it is easy to explain a decision to restrict battery options. Button/no button, protected/unprotected; these are options that create a wide variability in size. 

So that is my explanation for the restrictions on battery. Electronics came first. Size considerations followed. 

I am, of course, only speculating, but mine is an explanation that makes sense.


----------



## simba23

Using posts is Prolly the equivalent of the soldering extra wire to the spring trick to get more power supply.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

simba23 said:


> Using posts is Prolly the equivalent of the soldering extra wire to the spring trick to get more power supply.



I have a Mountain Electronics modified Supfire M6 and that's what Richard did to my four spring terminals: soldered some braided copper wire inside, to increase current flow and presumably lower resistance.

Chris


----------



## KeepingItLight

ChrisGarrett said:


> I have a Mountain Electronics modified Supfire M6 and that's what Richard did to my four spring terminals: soldered some braided copper wire inside, to increase current flow and presumably lower resistance.
> 
> Chris




To get the highest output from the *BLF A6 Special Edition*, you have to do the same spring-bypass. Initially, the *BLF X6/X5 Special Edition* was going to use the same design. Now the plan is to use a double spring. Evidently, a spring-bypass is a manual operation that must be performed by hand on each flashlight. Making a double spring can be automated.

My guess is that the battery posts used in the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III* can be manufactured on an assembly line. A spring-bypass, however, would require each flashlight to be modded by hand.


----------



## markr6

Zebralight: Update Tracking # in my inbox today 

Ooooh no! No it's not my SC600 III and SC600w III shipping notice. Instead it was for a question I asked about the battery fit. Almost had a heart attack there. Oh well, we're getting closer...


----------



## holygeez03

Has anyone made a design that uses a traditional spring for battery fit and shock absorption... with a telescoping "pin" in the middle for current draw?


----------



## simba23

markr6 said:


> Zebralight: Update Tracking # in my inbox today
> 
> Ooooh no! No it's not my SC600 III and SC600w III shipping notice. Instead it was for a question I asked about the battery fit. Almost had a heart attack there. Oh well, we're getting closer...



Lol, you had me going for a sec


----------



## markr6

I think we're blowing the battery thing way out of proportion. They state:

_*Battery: One 18650 size (i.e. 65mm long) 3.6-4.35V li-ion rechargeable.*_

I have a feeling the "i.e. 65mm long" is just to reiterate to people the exact type of battery. For example, NOT an 18500 cell. I know this is different wording from any other previous ZL page, but that's my guess. Maybe not 70mm protected cells, but 65, 66mm? I bet they're fine. Maybe even a 67mm?

I think it was in the ZL spreadsheet before where it said something like _*unprotected only*_*. *I no longer see that.I asked ZL if an NCR18650GA flat top would fit. They didn't specifically try that cell, but said it looked OK based on the specs. I gave them the specs from mtnelectronics which states 65.5mm long.


----------



## texas cop

I'd hold off on buying batteries for it until I get one to look at. Some designs use a physical plastic ring for reverse polarity protection. Button tops might be needed.


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> Zebralight: Update Tracking # in my inbox today
> 
> Ooooh no! No it's not my SC600 III and SC600w III shipping notice. Instead it was for a question I asked about the battery fit. Almost had a heart attack there. Oh well, we're getting closer...



Well? Don't keep it to yourself...what, pray tell, did the good folks who keep us staring at our calendars in anxious anticipation have to say about battery fitment? Please share!

BTW, in the wee small hours of this morning when I should have been sleeping, I ordered 2 new batteries from FastTech. I need more batteries like I need *another* hole in my head. But, in anticipation of my new Mk III needing a little more zip in the amperage department I jumped on these Bad Boyz: http://tinyurl.com/3500mAh-Sanyo-Batteries Please take special note of the height/length coming in at exactly 65mm which should meet the Mk III's requirements perfectly.

**Yikes, It looks like you've already spilled the beans while I was looking in the wrong direction. Nevermind...


----------



## markr6

sdr said:


> Well? Don't keep it to yourself...what, pray tell, did the good folks who keep us staring at our calendars in anxious anticipation have to say about battery fitment? Please share!
> 
> BTW, in the wee small hours of this morning when I should have been sleeping, I ordered 2 new batteries from FastTech. I need more batteries like I need *another* hole in my head. But, in anticipation of my new Mk III needing a little more zip in the amperage department I jumped on these Bad Boyz: http://tinyurl.com/3500mAh-Sanyo-Batteries Please take special note of the height/length coming in at exactly 65mm which should meet the Mk III's requirements perfectly.
> 
> **Yikes, It looks like you've already spilled the beans while I was looking in the wrong direction. Nevermind...



Those were the batteries I specifically asked about. Mtnelectronics lists them as 65.5mm, and ZL seemed to think that would work. Actually, if those DON'T work, ZL really fouled this one up. So many batteries are that size...that's just the basic 18650 flattop unprotected. I don't think we have anything to worry about 65-66mm. I have a feeling there may even be more forgiveness on the length. We'll see.


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> Those were the batteries I specifically asked about. Mtnelectronics lists them as 65.5mm, and ZL seemed to think that would work. Actually, if those DON'T work, ZL really fouled this one up. So many batteries are that size...that's just the basic 18650 flattop unprotected. I don't think we have anything to worry about 65-66mm. I have a feeling there may even be more forgiveness on the length. We'll see.



I just went back and looked at Megaphobema's post about the Sanyo's he was looking at. The link that he posted ( http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index....ing&order=DESC ) indicated that they were 65.5mm. I even commented about that possibly being a problem yesterday. The one's that I purchased from FastTech specify 65mm and that's why I bought them. Having purchased batteries from FastTech for several years I have trust in their measurements and I have never known them to round off any measurement. But someone has to be wrong, I would imagine? In any case I would be inclined to think that .5mm will not be a dealer breaker? I sure wish this light would get here so we can all move on to speculatin' about something else!


----------



## sdr

sdr said:


> I just went back and looked at Megaphobema's post about the Sanyo's he was looking at. The link that he posted ( http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index....ing&order=DESC ) indicated that they were 65.5mm. I even commented about that possibly being a problem yesterday. The one's that I purchased from FastTech specify 65mm and that's why I bought them. Having purchased batteries from FastTech for several years I have trust in their measurements and I have never known them to round off any measurement. But someone has to be wrong, I would imagine? In any case I would be inclined to think that .5mm will not be a dealer breaker? I sure wish this light would get here so we can all move on to speculatin' about something else!



Forgive me for replying to my own post, but I just noticed something that makes me think the batteries being offered from Mountain Electronics are distinctly different than the ones being offered by FastTech, even though the descriptions (NCR18650GA 3500mAh) appear to be the same. To wit:

Mtn Electronics version: 65.5mm x 18.6mm - http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=545&sort=rating&order=DESC

FastTech's version: 65mm x 18.2mm - https://www.fasttech.com/products/1...-sanyo-ncr18650ga-3-6v-3500mah#ProductDetails 

Note the difference not only on the length but significantly different diameters. 18.2 v. 18.6 Hmmm?


----------



## markr6

sdr said:


> I just went back and looked at Megaphobema's post about the Sanyo's he was looking at. The link that he posted ( http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index....ing&order=DESC ) indicated that they were 65.5mm. I even commented about that possibly being a problem yesterday. The one's that I purchased from FastTech specify 65mm and that's why I bought them. Having purchased batteries from FastTech for several years I have trust in their measurements and I have never known them to round off any measurement. But someone has to be wrong, I would imagine? In any case I would be inclined to think that .5mm will not be a dealer breaker? I sure wish this light would get here so we can all move on to speculatin' about something else!



Yes lots of speculation. If there's no spring up front (just the wire contact) and no spring on the cap (just the spring posts like SC5) that doesn't leave much room for error.

My final guess: A spring up front like the SC600w. Spring posts on tail cap like the SC5. This would prevent battery-crushing, give a little more tolerance to accept various cells, while allowing a good amount of current.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

sdr said:


> Forgive me for replying to my own post, but I just noticed something that makes me think the batteries being offered from Mountain Electronics are distinctly different than the ones being offered by FastTech, even though the descriptions (NCR18650GA 3500mAh) appear to be the same. To wit:
> 
> Mtn Electronics version: 65.5mm x 18.6mm - http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index...h=59_88&product_id=545&sort=rating&order=DESC
> 
> FastTech's version: 65mm x 18.2mm - https://www.fasttech.com/products/1...-sanyo-ncr18650ga-3-6v-3500mah#ProductDetails
> 
> Note the difference not only on the length but significantly different diameters. 18.2 v. 18.6 Hmmm?



Who knows what the quality of calipers was in each measurement, or whether they were zeroed properly before measurement, or whether somebody rounded up/down?

I'd take them with a grain of salt.

Chris


----------



## TCY

markr6 said:


> I think we're blowing the battery thing way out of proportion. They state:
> 
> _*Battery: One 18650 size (i.e. 65mm long) 3.6-4.35V li-ion rechargeable.*_
> 
> I have a feeling the "i.e. 65mm long" is just to reiterate to people the exact type of battery. For example, NOT an 18500 cell. I know this is different wording from any other previous ZL page, but that's my guess. Maybe not 70mm protected cells, but 65, 66mm? I bet they're fine. Maybe even a 67mm?
> 
> I think it was in the ZL spreadsheet before where it said something like _*unprotected only*_*. *I no longer see that.I asked ZL if an NCR18650GA flat top would fit. They didn't specifically try that cell, but said it looked OK based on the specs. I gave them the specs from mtnelectronics which states 65.5mm long.



I have asked ZL the exact same question and got the exact same reply:thumbsup:


----------



## holygeez03

ZL did remove the "fits all lights" statement... so 67mm is almost definitely out... BUt I would hope 65.X will work... or there will be problems.


----------



## akhyar

Those stock unprotected flat top batteries straight from the factory are normally about 65 +/- 0.5mm in length, with Panasonic specifies that their NCR18650 batteries have a maximum height of 65.3mm.
If ZL insisted on exactly 65.0mm, without any tolerance, I think they are shooting themselves in the foot

I can only find the spec sheet for NCR18650B in Panasonic website.
http://na.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidsa/files/ncr18650b.pdf

In the datasheet below (not from official website), the NCR18650GA has a maximum height of 65.1mm with +/- 0.2mm. Page 15
http://www.nkon.nl/sk/k/ncr18650ga.pdf


----------



## richardcpf

I don't know if it is common in CPF to use "bare" cells but I haven't bought any re-branded battery for a while and apart from saving me a lots of money the batteries fit into any of my lights. For any 18650 zebra light or for any high current draw light (3A+ at highest mode) I wouldn't recommend using high capacity low draw cells like the LG MJ1 or the Panasonic B. The capacity of these batteries are rated with a very low discharge rate often unsuited for our hobby requirements. 

In my H600, I've got best results with the Samsung 30Q which is a "mid drain" cell (which is not true), even more so than the famous high drain Samsung 25R or LG HE2 while providing more capacity as well. In the same H600 a panasonic NCR-B can't keep up with the current after a short while and the output drops down. In these cases capacity means nothing if the voltage cannot keep up, the driver will end up drawing more amps to compensate the voltage drop and in the end a 3500mAh will not perform much better than a 3,000mAh in the highest setting.

I've been getting rid of my other cells, LG F1, Samsung 25R, Pan B and Pan BD to stock up on the Samsung 30Q alone. In a triple direct drive XP-L HI setup it draws ~10A and the measured capacity has been consistent even after some rough use in my hot rods. The best thing is they can be found for $5 ea from chinese sellers and $8 from USA sellers. I'm yet to try the Sanyo GA but it seems to be a strong contender in the mid-drain category.

I'm anxiously waiting for the SC600 XP-L HI or XHP35 HI to show up, anyone know the stock date on these two?


----------



## keeperofdakeys

richardcpf said:


> I'm anxiously waiting for the SC600 XP-L HI or XHP35 HI to show up, anyone know the stock date on these two?


I'm unsure how official it is, but there is a ZebraLight spreadsheet. It says November 2015.


----------



## markr6

Figured I would do a side by side using Zebralights photos. Using the clip as a reference (not shown here), I believe this is a fair representation.

4.0" vs 3.8" looks right to me. Every little bit helps!


----------



## simba23

Nice heat vent fins


----------



## simba23

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...ghtest-diy-flashlight-1000-watts-90000-lumen/


----------



## simba23

Battery: shoot, did I buy the wrong batteries for this light? I got these. 

NCR18650B 3.6 Volt 18650 3400 mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery for Panasonic [4pcs] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C26OWGS/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## ChrisGarrett

simba23 said:


> Battery: shoot, did I buy the wrong batteries for this light? I got these.
> 
> NCR18650B 3.6 Volt 18650 3400 mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery for Panasonic [4pcs] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C26OWGS/?tag=cpf0b6-20



From what's been speculated about its 5A draw, you're on the cusp.

Sanyo Panasonic NCR18650GA naked cells are in your future. LG MJ1s would be another worthy choice and then the Samsung 30Qs.

All are hi-caps and can handle 10A, 20A and 15A, IIRC.

Chris


----------



## sdr

simba23 said:


> Battery: shoot, did I buy the wrong batteries for this light? I got these.
> 
> NCR18650B 3.6 Volt 18650 3400 mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery for Panasonic [4pcs] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C26OWGS/?tag=cpf0b6-20



Those *should* be fine. Those are great batteries and they are what I have been using in all of my ZebraLight and ArmyTek flashlights with excellent results. Their dimensions are perfect as far as fit is concerned. Copied from the link you posted: Dimensions: 2.56 in x 0.71 in x 0.71 in (6.5 cm x 1.8 cm x 1.8 cm) Translated into millimeters= 65mm x 18mm The only question as I see it might be with the higher anticipated amperage drain in the new SC600 Mk III? For that reason I ordered the Sanyo NCR18650GA 3.6V "3500mAh" batteries just in case?


----------



## fnsooner

simba23 said:


> Battery: shoot, did I buy the wrong batteries for this light? I got these.
> 
> NCR18650B 3.6 Volt 18650 3400 mAh Rechargeable Li-ion Battery for Panasonic [4pcs] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C26OWGS/?tag=cpf0b6-20



I think they will be fine. The length looks good. They aren’t high drains as far as I can tell so you may not be able to eek every last lumen out of H1. When everyone gets their lights, I am sure there will be plenty of tail cap amp readings and comparisons of different batteries to see.


I would probably take the wait and see approach.

***Edit** Hehe, it looks like three of us were typing at the same time. Similar responses though.


----------



## simba23

Thanks guys.


----------



## holygeez03

So who's going to be the first on here to receive their MKIII and post a bunch of pictures... and hopefully help answer this battery length question?


----------



## markr6

holygeez03 said:


> So who's going to be the first on here to receive their MKIII and post a bunch of pictures... and hopefully help answer this battery length question?



I'm sure it will be one of the non-US guys receiving the first shipments. I'm afraid I may have waited too long to order, possibly missing the initial stock...but we'll see. Getting real close now!


----------



## simba23

holygeez03 said:


> So who's going to be the first on here to receive their MKIII and post a bunch of pictures... and hopefully help answer this battery length question?



It's not the size that matters... It's how you use it!


----------



## Oztorchfreak

I ordered my "pre order" SC600 Mk III 18650 XHP35 Cool White yesterday using DHL as the carrier.

I have quite a few Zebralights now and I hope the button is not too mushy on this one like the last SC600 MKII that I bought.

I have one SC52, one SC52 L2, one SC62 and the first SC600 (all cool whites with good tints).

I can't handle the yellow or green attempts at making a nice neutral light YUCK!

They are all nice lights once you get used to the UI and the button is really easy to find in the dark.

The clips are usually a bit too strong in my opinion on all models so far.



CHEERS


----------



## simba23

ChrisGarrett said:


> From what's been speculated about its 5A draw, you're on the cusp.
> 
> Sanyo Panasonic NCR18650GA naked cells are in your future. LG MJ1s would be another worthy choice and then the Samsung 30Qs.
> 
> All are hi-caps and can handle 10A, 20A and 15A, IIRC.
> 
> Chris




Could you help me understand how the flashlight works and the amp/voltage requirements? I thought the flashlight has a boost driver, so it should be able to use any type of 18650 battery and it will just amp up the power?

I ask because the batteries I bought were max 4.2 volts, but the specs for the mkiii is up to 6 volts.


----------



## texas cop

simba23 said:


> Could you help me understand how the flashlight works and the amp/voltage requirements? I thought the flashlight has a boost driver, so it should be able to use any type of 18650 battery and it will just amp up the power?
> 
> I ask because the batteries I bought were max 4.2 volts, but the specs for the mkiii is up to 6 volts.



That up to 6 volts is so a pair of cr123a's could be used. Our quandary is will the batteries provide enough current without too much voltage sag hence not enough wattage to effectively run the light to its full potential output. 2nd issue is which batteries willl or won't fit as this light does spec out to the small end of the spectrum for 186500's, not all batteries in this size are actually this size some are up to 18.6 mm by 69 mm's. last but not least 2-cr123a's are probably not going to come close to full potential but is the only option for some.


----------



## markr6

Almost Nov. 30!! That came pretty quick actually. Just hoping I make the first batch.


----------



## keeperofdakeys

simba23 said:


> Could you help me understand how the flashlight works and the amp/voltage requirements? I thought the flashlight has a boost driver, so it should be able to use any type of 18650 battery and it will just amp up the power?
> 
> I ask because the batteries I bought were max 4.2 volts, but the specs for the mkiii is up to 6 volts.



You're right about the boost driver amping up the power, however batteries have amperage limits. So if this light uses as much power as is suspected, you'll need an 18650 that can handle a large amp output.


----------



## CM2010

Couldn't resist and ordered one with DHL shipping so should be quite speedy to the UK.

Now for what battery to use, any recommendations?

Thinking about these, would they be ok?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-GENUIN...500743?hash=item2a54648707:g:BfsAAOSw9N1VpsXH


----------



## oeL

CM2010 said:


> Now for what battery to use, any recommendations?
> 
> Thinking about these, would they be ok?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-GENUINE-SANYO-NCR18650GA-Li-Mn-3500mAh-INR-10-20A-3-7v-BATTERIES-CASE-UK-/181804500743?hash=item2a54648707:g:BfsAAOSw9N1VpsXH



Current state-of-the-art in 18650s. I assume this one should give maximum runtime of all available cells.
Size is within the specs of the MK III.


----------



## simba23

oeL said:


> Current state-of-the-art in 18650s. I assume this one should give maximum runtime of all available cells.
> Size is within the specs of the MK III.



What's the difference between the GA and BF kind, such as the ones here? 

4pcs Panasonic NCR18650BF(NCR18650B) 3.6 Volt 18650 Battery 3400 mAh https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PEMH9HG/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## texas cop

simba23 said:


> What's the difference between the GA and BF kind, such as the ones here?
> 
> 4pcs Panasonic NCR18650BF(NCR18650B) 3.6 Volt 18650 Battery 3400 mAh https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PEMH9HG/?tag=cpf0b6-20



The GA can run continuously at 10 amps. The B is only rated for 5 amps continuously. BF for 6.8 amps.


----------



## simba23

texas cop said:


> The GA can run continuously at 10 amps. The B is only rated for 5 amps continuously. BF for 6.8 amps.



Thanks officer 👮!

I'm returning my regular 18650s and getting those Sanyo NCR18650GA's instead. Coupon code for 10% off right now on fasttech


----------



## oneinthaair

Any word on the SC63?


----------



## Crazy Swede

Why do you guys think this light will draw 5 amps? The led is specified as max 13 W and max 1833 lumens. This light puts out 1300 lumens and my guess is that it's not maxed. I should say around 10 to 11 W. Whith 11 W i should draw 3 amps at 3,6v battery and 3,6 amps at 3v (discharged) battery. My guess is below 4 ampere :thinking:


----------



## texas cop

Crazy Swede said:


> Why do you guys think this light will draw 5 amps? The led is specified as max 13 W and max 1833 lumens. This light puts out 1300 lumens and my guess is that it's not maxed. I should say around 10 to 11 W. Whith 11 W i should draw 3 amps at 3,6v battery and 3,6 amps at 3v (discharged) battery. My guess is below 4 ampere :thinking:



The belief has been do to the listed hot spot and spill zebralight is using the Cree XHP-35 HI which max lumens is listed at 1483. Wattage is going to be a little higher then subtracted output loss from heat, circuit efficiency, yes its a dead horse being beaten at this point from all the speculations. But feeling are it's going to really suck amps on turbo as voltage lowers.


----------



## simba23

oneinthaair said:


> Any word on the SC63?



Prolly next year


----------



## jhe888

I think I distill this from all the talk about battery size:

Flat top, unprotected cells will fit for sure.

Has anyone tried any other cells to see what else will fit? 69mm? 67mm?

EDIT: Zebralight's response is that only unprotected cells will fit. That certainly leaves out 69mm cells.

I also don't think I can see whether anyone said whether both button tops or flat tops will work. Does anyone know if either will work?

EDIT: Zebralight tells me that an unprotected button top cell with a length of 67mm will not fit. I don't think that it is the button top per se, but the length is too great. I wonder if that is them being conservative or if there is really not enough room for a 67mm cell. It may be they really designed it around a 65mm cell. When someone gets one, they can try them.

I understand trying to make it as small as possible. But I'd give up a little in size to get a wider variety of batteries to fit.

As for delivery, Zebralight responded to my inquiry last Wednesday (November 25) and said that they probably won't ship in the U.S. for a week to 10 days after November 30, 2015.


----------



## oeL

texas cop said:


> The belief has been do to the listed hot spot and spill zebralight is using the Cree XHP-35 HI which max lumens is listed at 1483.(...)



According to Zebralights "Compare all models" spreadsheet https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...Fc0FfUDFVSHVNS1E&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0 there will be both: One MK III with a XPH35 (in preorder) and another one with a XPH35 HI (announced for "November"). I'm looking forward on the first comparison tests


----------



## fnsooner

I got a phone call from James at Zebralight today to inform me that he was about to ship some lights back to me that were in for repair. I was at work and a little distracted, but he told me a couple of tidbits that you all might be interested in.

They should have some unprotected cells up on their site, in a few days, that work with the Mark III. They are Sanyo based. 

We also talked about the PID and he said that it is not there to protect the LED or for human comfort, but to protect the battery from excessive heat. He told me what temperature the PID is calibrated to but I can’t remember exactly. I think around 122 degrees F. 

I mostly tried to get info about the SC63 but he was tight lipped. He did say that it will be shorter(5mm shorter I think) and that it will require unprotected batteries and the last he heard is that it will have the same LED as the SC600 Mark III. He also said that it probably wouldn’t get a HI version.


----------



## jhe888

I guess they are emphasizing small size over convenience of using all of the different battery variants. That wouldn't be my choice as I think saving a few millimeters in length isn't all that important, but the new MkIII lights are still pretty sexy.


----------



## marinemaster

Hmmm, waiting on the SC63...... all my 18650 are protected, no bueno.


----------



## markr6

I just scored 8 NCR18650GAs for a good deal. Impulse buy, don't need them! I may keep a couple for my zebralights and sell the rest here once I find out more.


----------



## snowlover91

jhe888 said:


> I guess they are emphasizing small size over convenience of using all of the different battery variants. That wouldn't be my choice as I think saving a few millimeters in length isn't all that important, but the new MkIII lights are still pretty sexy.



I think the new emitters they're using pull enough amps that a protected battery would cause issues which is why they're switching to unprotected. Also I can't imagine the SC63 being even shorter than it already is, I might have to buy two! Wait till Mark sees this lol. 

Fnsooner, if I remember correctly you had 3 frosted lens lights you sent in for repair and hadn't heard from ZL in awhile. Are they shipping them back to you, and did they resolve the cracked lenses for you?


----------



## fnsooner

snowlover91 said:


> Fnsooner, if I remember correctly you had 3 frosted lens lights you sent in for repair and hadn't heard from ZL in awhile. Are they shipping them back to you, and did they resolve the cracked lenses for you?



Yes, it is the frosted lens lights that they are sending back to me. They are fixed and should be in the mail in Irving by tomorrow. I am very pleased with Zebralight in this matter. 

I am probably going to purchase the SC600w Mark III HI and the SC63w when they come out. I think I will then be good for a while.:shakehead


----------



## simba23

oneinthaair said:


> Any word on the SC63?



What's the deal?


----------



## twistedraven

Got my order notice. I assume it's not shipping from China as it's usps. Dunno if I'll have to wait a week or if it will ship tomorrow-- oh the wait!


----------



## snowlover91

fnsooner said:


> Yes, it is the frosted lens lights that they are sending back to me. They are fixed and should be in the mail in Irving by tomorrow. I am very pleased with Zebralight in this matter.
> 
> I am probably going to purchase the SC600w Mark III HI and the SC63w when they come out. I think I will then be good for a while.:shakehead



Excellent news, I'm glad they took care of you! Maybe you can update your original thread about it once you receive them? It seems like ZL has definitely upped their game both for customer service and much better QC with their lights. As many members as we have on here I see very few issues. The last one I remember was the SC5 with smooth reflector having the "purple dot" which some experienced, although it was rather sparse and confined to the first production units. They quickly resolved the issue though! All these new lights coming out are getting quite expensive!


----------



## markr6

I just got a copy of my order notice as well...again. I got the original one on November 4.

I sure hope they don't charge my PayPal account again. I don't have enough money in that account and the bank will charge me a $35 fee!

Hopefully it's just an automatic email and has something to do with it shipping soon!!!


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> I just got a copy of my order notice as well...again. I got the original one on November 4.
> 
> I sure hope they don't charge my PayPal account again. I don't have enough money in that account and the bank will charge me a $35 fee!
> 
> Hopefully it's just an automatic email and has something to do with it shipping soon!!!



I just got the same email from ZL. It's just an order confirmation stating that they got the order and will send a tracking number just as soon as it's in the mail. Sounds like they're on the ball. My initial order was placed on Oct. 29th. This is good news as far as I'm concerned. It shouldn't be long now!


----------



## Glenn7

Hmm I got that order confirmation notice to today - hope they meant it as a we sent it out notice


----------



## InspectHerGadget

Same here, order shipped. It will take until Christmas to get to Perth Australia but it will be a nice present.


----------



## keeperofdakeys

InspectHerGadget said:


> Same here, order shipped. It will take until Christmas to get to Perth Australia but it will be a nice present.


Good luck with AusPost tracking, they didn't register the tracking number I got from my recent SC62w purchase. So I got detailed tracking inside china, then a ten day blank until I had it in my hands. (And can I just say, wow this light is small. And such a nice tint.)


----------



## Megaphobema

I ordered my SC600w Mk III on Nov. 3. I got my notice, too, but upon inquiry yesterday ZL notified me it would be another 5-10 business days before it actually ships.


----------



## simba23

Mine got shipped son! From Canada. Anybody from the US get theirs shipped?


----------



## snowlover91

International shipping is usually first then the US is about 5-10 days later, they have to get the shipment in from China then prepare it whereas I believe the international orders ship directly from the factory.


----------



## sdr

Sounds like this roll-out is running smoothly. I'll be curious to see who actually gets one in their hot little hands first. Any bets on what Country? So far the blokes down under sound like they're running neck n' neck with our brother to the north in Canada. Any other folks with tracking numbers, yet?


----------



## keeperofdakeys

https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/3v37n7/zebralight_pushing_forward_in_design/

An interesting post from someone who has talked to Zebralight about their future product design.


----------



## snowlover91

keeperofdakeys said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/3v37n7/zebralight_pushing_forward_in_design/
> 
> An interesting post from someone who has talked to Zebralight about their future product design.



Thanks for sharing, interesting article. It sounds like the move may be encouraged by people using the cheap ultrafire type batteries that may not have been able to handle the current draws and had cheap pcb causing issues with the light not working or performing as advertised. It also sounds like they're going to be using 12v emitters in future lights for awhile thus helping squeeze out extra lumens while maintaining runtime. I'm fine with the shorter length of the lights too, I can't imagine the SC63 being even shorter than it already is. Removing the spring and using unprotected cells could drop the length under 3.6" which would be impressive.


----------



## psychbeat

Stoked to see these 12v emitters in the H600w MKIII at some point. 
I prefer raw flat top cells anyways & is all I buy now (after having protected cells short & spark or cut off completely at inopportune times).


----------



## fnsooner

snowlover91 said:


> It sounds like the move may be encouraged by people using the cheap ultrafire type batteries that may not have been able to handle the current draws and had cheap pcb causing issues with the light not working or performing as advertised.



This is a very good point. I would bet that Zebralight gets a few returns from customers returning their flashlights as defective when it is actually a poor battery. Zebralight always pushes batteries pretty hard. Requiring an unprotected battery and handling all the protection circuitry themselves should solve this.

It seems like I remember seeing several forum posts over the years of where someone has the problem of their Zebralight only working for a couple of seconds. I always figured it was a battery problem and not a flashlight problem. People will probably still use crap batteries in the newer gen Zebralights but at least the PCB protection will be taken out of the troubleshooting equation.


----------



## Djonah Inc.

just got some info on the release of the h600(f)(w) series:
- release will be in 2-3 months
- will use the xhp35
- same size as the already available c/d mk3 version


----------



## markr6

Djonah Inc. said:


> just got some info on the release of the h600(f)(w) series:
> - release will be in 2-3 months
> - will use the xhp35
> - same size as the already available c/d mk3 version



Awesome! I like my H600w II and have no need to upgrade, but I may depending on how much I like this XHP35. I will find out soon!


----------



## simba23

keeperofdakeys said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/3v37n7/zebralight_pushing_forward_in_design/
> 
> An interesting post from someone who has talked to Zebralight about their future product design.



Nice article. It looks like I would've been fine using my 5amp batteries (that I've returned) and didn't need to buy the high drain 10amp Sanyo ncr 18650ga batteries.


----------



## Djonah Inc.

markr6 said:


> Awesome! I like my H600w II and have no need to upgrade, but I may depending on how much I like this XHP35. I will find out soon!



my reaction exactly :twothumbs

still have to decide if i should get me an mk2 now or wait for the update... these choices of a flashaholic...

BTW, still waiting on an answer if the h52 update will use the sc5 driver to boost output on eneloops vs the possibility to use 14500's


----------



## recDNA

I may have said this before but to me the most important reason and need for the protection circuit is during charging. Zebralight cannot protect against problems during battery charging but sometimes protection circuitry can. I will use AW IMR 18660 (the old ones not the new hybrid model) because I trust them but in general I prefer protected AW batteries. In fact I wish somebody made a protected true imr battery. (Belt and suspenders). I do like me some Zebralight but I think I will pass on this model. It will be interesting to read the reviews.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> I may have said this before but to me the most important reason and need for the protection circuit is during charging. Zebralight cannot protect against problems during battery charging but sometimes protection circuitry can. I will use AW IMR 18660 (the old ones not the new hybrid model) because I trust them but in general I prefer protected AW batteries. In fact I wish somebody made a protected true imr battery. (Belt and suspenders). I do like me some Zebralight but I think I will pass on this model. It will be interesting to read the reviews.



That's a good point. But for me, charging is where I _would like_ the problems to occur instead of in a headlamp on my head. If something does happen during charging I will be there to handle it (extinguish-ventilate)...not while I'm away at work, possibly burning my house down. And that's such a small chance that anything would happen anyway after all the charging I've done so far.


----------



## LessDark

Does this mean I will have to do some shopping for the last Zebralight models allowing protected batteries?
Too bad, I would have liked to continue being a good Zebralight customer.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I may have said this before but to me the most important reason and need for the protection circuit is during charging. Zebralight cannot protect against problems during battery charging but sometimes protection circuitry can. I will use AW IMR 18660 (the old ones not the new hybrid model) because I trust them but in general I prefer protected AW batteries. In fact I wish somebody made a protected true imr battery. (Belt and suspenders). I do like me some Zebralight but I think I will pass on this model. It will be interesting to read the reviews.



I think most of the issues comes from user error or buying low quality batteries. The incidents I've read over the years about are usually from cheap batteries (ultrafire for example), people who overcharge/discharge their batteries or use one that doesn't support the amp draw of a light. If one buys good quality flat top batteries and practices safe charging habits then the chance of any issues is almost none. The Zebraligts will drop down a level when battery voltage gets low and that's the sign to change batteries. If a person keeps using it the built in ZL protection will shut the light off, and it's a much better quality part than most protection circuits on batteries as well. When charging I always am present and check the starting voltage and then when the batteries are near completion I check again to ensure the charger shuts off as it should. A good quality charger will also prevent issues.

Although protected batteries offer a more secure feeling I think they can be more dangerous because people will then be more careless with them as a result. I've read several stories of protected 18650 failing and it always seems to be either low quality protected batteries or someone who didn't practice good charging habits. I look at it this way, the new Zebralights using unprotected batteries are like using a laptop or cellphone; they don't use protected batteries but instead rely on both good charging habits as well as the internal circuits to shut the device down at a certain threshold. The Zebralight on unprotected batteries should operate the same type of way and I don't see any issues with the main area to take care is to use a good quality charger.


----------



## snowlover91

LessDark said:


> Does this mean I will have to do some shopping for the last Zebralight models allowing protected batteries?
> Too bad, I would have liked to continue being a good Zebralight customer.



The future is unprotected batteries in lights allowing for increased brightness and smaller profile. Also unprotected batteries are much cheaper as low as $5-6 a battery for good quality cells. Might want to invest in a few and give the new one a try, I used to think only protected cells but now after using unprotected cells in my ZL I find they are better and just as safe.


----------



## SubLGT

I would rather use an unprotected cell from one of the Big 5 (Sanyo, LG, etc), than a protected cell with an unknown cell under the wrapper.


----------



## marinemaster

+1 guys, good points [emoji106]


----------



## recDNA

SubLGT said:


> I would rather use an unprotected cell from one of the Big 5 (Sanyo, LG, etc), than a protected cell with an unknown cell under the wrapper.


I'll take a protected AW any day. I really don't like to exceed 3 amps anyway but we all have different experiences and tolerable risk levels. I'm willing to accept less risk than most.


----------



## simba23

marinemaster said:


> +1 guys, good points [emoji106]



What boat do you have?


----------



## simba23

recDNA said:


> I'll take a protected AW any day. I really don't like to exceed 3 amps anyway but we all have different experiences and tolerable risk levels. I'm willing to accept less risk than most.



I'm willing the accept maximum risk


----------



## Djonah Inc.

Djonah Inc. said:


> my reaction exactly :twothumbs
> 
> still have to decide if i should get me an mk2 now or wait for the update... these choices of a flashaholic...
> 
> BTW, still waiting on an answer if the h52 update will use the sc5 driver to boost output on eneloops vs the possibility to use 14500's



got an answer on my question about the sc5 driver:
"no plans on incorporating the sc5 driver in other AA lights anytime soon"


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Djonah Inc. said:


> got an answer on my question about the sc5 driver:
> "no plans on incorporating the sc5 driver in other AA lights anytime soon"



Too bad, because the SC5 is not only the brightest light on a AA, but it's also more efficient than their driver on the SC52.


----------



## recDNA

With its safer chemistry sc5w may be a better choice for me. As it is I don't use max output on my sc32w nor sc62w. Risk adverse. LOL


----------



## markr6

I can't resist the urge to use my SC5w on high though...often leaving me with a dead battery, and quick! So with the SC62w I can get comparable output for 3+ hours instead of 45 minutes.


----------



## holygeez03

recDNA said:


> With its safer chemistry sc5w may be a better choice for me. As it is I don't use max output on my sc32w nor sc62w. Risk adverse. LOL




If you're not concerned about cutting edge/max output... just use a SC62w or SC600 MKII with a protected 18650?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> I can't resist the urge to use my SC5w on high though...often leaving me with a dead battery, and quick! So with the SC62w I can get comparable output for 3+ hours instead of 45 minutes.



Heh, yeah, me too. Waiting for the SC63!


----------



## recDNA

holygeez03 said:


> If you're not concerned about cutting edge/max output... just use a SC62w or SC600 MKII with a protected 18650?


I already do! 3 amps heats up too fast as it is.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

recDNA said:


> I already do! 3 amps heats up too fast as it is.



You really should put the danger into perspective. The chances of you ever being injured from an exploding lithium-ion cell, if you use a quality name-brand, is probably around 1 in 100,000,000 or less. Do you drive? The chances of you being injured in an automobile accident is thousands of times greater. So is just about any activity to keep you healthy (cyling, running, etc.). And so is not doing any activity (heart attack coming).

In fact, I have never heard of any lithium-ion injuries from devices that use a single cell of a quality brand (i.e., no *fire).


----------



## insanefred

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> You really should put the danger into perspective. The chances of you ever being injured from an exploding lithium-ion cell, if you use a quality name-brand, is probably around 1 in 100,000,000 or less. Do you drive? The chances of you being injured in an automobile accident is thousands of times greater. So is just about any activity to keep you healthy (cyling, running, etc.). And so is not doing any activity (heart attack coming).
> 
> In fact, I have never heard of any lithium-ion injuries from devices that use a single cell of a quality brand (i.e., no *fire).



This, and with batteries advancing, 3 amps is hardly anything these days.


----------



## simba23

insanefred said:


> This, and with batteries advancing, 3 amps is hardly anything these days.



My new batteries can go up to 10amps


----------



## recDNA

insanefred said:


> This, and with batteries advancing, 3 amps is hardly anything these days.


In a small flashlight it produces a lot of heat. ZL heat control then automatically diminishes output to control heat. I'm just skipping the 5 or 10 minutes at max amperage (if that long)

I just think 3 amp is more than enough in a small device. Of course you are free to run 15 amps if you like. I just do not want to.


----------



## Tixx

MKIII is past its shipping date. Just checked on my order.


----------



## markr6

Tixx said:


> MKIII is past its shipping date. Just checked on my order.



Some non-US orders shipped last week as planned. I think they said around 10 days extra until others start. So I guess next week. I hope so!


----------



## 18650

recDNA said:


> With its safer chemistry sc5w may be a better choice for me. As it is I don't use max output on my sc32w nor sc62w. Risk adverse. LOL


 Were you the person requesting CR123 support in these lights? Using two CR123 cells in series is probably more risky than putting a 10A load on a 30Q or 25R.


----------



## snowlover91

18650 said:


> Were you the person requesting CR123 support in these lights? Using two CR123 cells in series is probably more risky than putting a 10A load on a 30Q or 25R.



I don't think he was, and if recDNA wants to play it safe there is nothing wrong with that. While I may be fine using a light which draws 4 or 5 amps not everyone is comfortable with that. It will be interesting to see the amp draw from this light when it's released, who all has received shipping notifications and tracking numbers so far?


----------



## Megaphobema

My guess is they won't start shipping until the middle to end of next week ...


----------



## TCY

I had a dream last night, MK3 was on sale for $55. I was so happy I was about to order 10. Why did I wake up:sigh:


----------



## sdr

Sure is quiet over here in ZL land. I guess those of us who ponied up our cash for the pre-order are just holding our breath awaiting notification that our Mk III's have shipped. Some of the non-US members have claimed to receive tracking numbers more than a week ago. Any chance that anyone has actually received their light yet? I hope to get a tracking number any day now. C'mon ZebraLight! Make this latest iteration of the trusty SC600 a reality for me...soon!


----------



## jhe888

I ordered a MkIII yesterday, after trying to guess when actual shipping to U.S. buyers will start.

I just got an e-mail that "lead time is three to four weeks."

I'm sure someone who gets a shipping notice will let us all know.


----------



## seasam

someone needs to get one already :shakehead


----------



## scs

Feel the excitement! Snap into a Slim Jim!


----------



## simba23

I got a package today..... But it was a watch delivered from Japan. Weird, cuz I ordered it AFTER the flashlight.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

I ordered my SC600 MkIII on 24-11-2015.

The status of my order on the ZL website says "processing".

i am located in Australia but no shipping notice yet!:shakehead


CHEERS


----------



## Oztorchfreak

simba23 said:


> I got a package today..... But it was a watch delivered from Japan. Weird, cuz I ordered it AFTER the flashlight.



What a letdown.:mecry:


----------



## Oztorchfreak

jhe888 said:


> I ordered a MkIII yesterday, after trying to guess when actual shipping to U.S. buyers will start.
> 
> I just got an e-mail that "lead time is three to four weeks."
> 
> I'm sure someone who gets a shipping notice will let us all know.





Please tell me you are joking.


CHEERS and sometimes TEARS like when I hear 3 - 4 weeks till a shipping date.:mecry:


----------



## Megaphobema

No one with an SC600 MkIII shipping confirmation yet?


----------



## markr6

Megaphobema said:


> No one with an SC600 MkIII shipping confirmation yet?



Two shipments back on 12/1. simba23 and inspecthergadget said theirs shipped. Canada and Australia I believe. US should be any time now!!


----------



## Glenn7

I got that strange notice on the 1st (that they had received my order) that everyone is taking as a shipping notice - I used EMS shipping with my order and from china it takes 3-5 days sometimes 7 plus with a tracking number (which I didn't get) so I'm doubting it was a shipping notice, maybe just some kind of third party acknowledgment.


----------



## snowlover91

Someone needs to email them and find out if international orders have actually shipped yet and how soon for US orders! I would but I've bugged them enough recently lol


----------



## markr6

Glenn7 said:


> I got that strange notice on the 1st (that they had received my order) that everyone is taking as a shipping notice - I used EMS shipping with my order and from china it takes 3-5 days sometimes 7 plus with a tracking number (which I didn't get) so I'm doubting it was a shipping notice, maybe just some kind of third party acknowledgment.



I don't think anyone assumed it was a shipping notice. The previous two pages explain that. But the two notifications from simba23 and inspecthergadget were the only "shipments" that I know of. They specifically said theirs shipped...unless they were misreading it.



snowlover91 said:


> Someone needs to email them and find out if international orders have actually shipped yet and how soon for US orders! I would but I've bugged them enough recently lol



I just did, along with my request for them to look into making a small, narrow 1xAAA light...just because!


----------



## Glock27

Any update on when these will start US shipping?
Looking forward to this light ........and future SC63w. Do you a date set for Pre-order SC63w?
Thanks,
Bob



 *Staff (Administrator)*
12/8/2015 11:47:46 PM We are about to receive the first shipment of SC600 Mk3 in a few days. We'll start to take SC63(w) pre-orders in about one month.


----------



## markr6

^^ NICE!!! 2 great answers right there. Thank you!


----------



## TCY

Holy cow, we finally hear things about SC63?


----------



## jhe888

Oztorchfreak said:


> Please tell me you are joking.
> 
> 
> CHEERS and sometimes TEARS like when I hear 3 - 4 weeks till a shipping date.:mecry:



I am not joking. I don't really know what that quoted phrase means, but that is an exact quote. I take it to mean that I should expect to get the light in 3 to 4 weeks. I am in the U.S., and in Houston, just a few hours down the road from Zebralight.

It certainly seems that the notice that shipping would start on 11-30 was optimistic.


----------



## markr6

Back on 11/30:


jhe888 said:


> As for delivery, Zebralight responded to my inquiry last Wednesday (November 25) and said that they probably won't ship in the U.S. for a week to 10 days after November 30, 2015.



Oh well, who knows. Trying to be optimistic and say it will ship this week yet!


----------



## snowlover91

jhe888 said:


> I am not joking. I don't really know what that quoted phrase means, but that is an exact quote. I take it to mean that I should expect to get the light in 3 to 4 weeks. I am in the U.S., and in Houston, just a few hours down the road from Zebralight.
> 
> It certainly seems that the notice that shipping would start on 11-30 was optimistic.



The 11-30 was based on initial preorders, the earlier you preordered the better. The demand is so high that some preorders won't be fulfilled until a few weeks later when more shipments arrive which is what sounds like you're seeing. It will be worth the wait though, which model did you order?


----------



## Glock27

I Pre-ordered on 11/2/2015. I prefer the SC6X size, but had to give the 600w Mk3 a try. Sounds like it might be a couple weeks before these land in US hands.
I've carried an SC60 sized Zebralight since they became available. I have bought a bunch of them as I feel these are "The best EDC 18650 lights made." You can get 3 or 4, or more SC62s' for the price of a custom...
G27


----------



## markr6

Sounds like they'll be knocking the SC62/w down to about $79 soon too. Maybe less?

But I'm now waiting on that SC63!


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> Sounds like they'll be knocking the SC62/w down to about $79 soon too. Maybe less?
> 
> But I'm now waiting on that SC63!



A lot of us are going to be pretty poor come 2016 lol with all these new Zebraligts coming out! The SC63 at 5700k with 1200-1400 lumens would be excellent! If they make it even smaller/shorter and with tailcap springs for unprotected batteries like the SC5 uses then I'll be happy. 

Looking forward to seeing the results of those who bought the MK3 and also if it uses the tailcap springs like the SC5. The 5700k emitter I also want to see beam shots from, maybe more of a pure white with a slight cool tint.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> A lot of us are going to be pretty poor come 2016 lol with all these new Zebraligts coming out! The SC63 at 5700k with 1200-1400 lumens would be excellent! If they make it even smaller/shorter and with tailcap springs for unprotected batteries like the SC5 uses then I'll be happy.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the results of those who bought the MK3 and also if it uses the tailcap springs like the SC5. The 5700k emitter I also want to see beam shots from, maybe more of a pure white with a slight cool tint.



Exactly. I'm DYING to see this 5700K...so much that I had to order both the SC600 III and SC600w III just to compare for myself. Too many times in the past I've ordered a light people called "perfect creamy white" and turned out to be the usual blue crap.

In general, I like 5000K the best. 4500K is nice, but depending on the tint variations can turn out yellowish/greenish. So I started leaning towards 5000K which seem more forgiving being cooler.

I think they'll both be nice. But I have really high hopes for the 5700K.

I'll spend some time doing beamshots for sure!


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> Exactly. I'm DYING to see this 5700K...so much that I had to order both the SC600 III and SC600w III just to compare for myself. Too many times in the past I've ordered a light people called "perfect creamy white" and turned out to be the usual blue crap.
> 
> In general, I like 5000K the best. 4500K is nice, but depending on the tint variations can turn out yellowish/greenish. So I started leaning towards 5000K which seem more forgiving being cooler.
> 
> I think they'll both be nice. But I have really high hopes for the 5700K.
> 
> I'll spend some time doing beamshots for sure!



Looking forward to seeing the comparison and hope they ship soon, it's hard to wait lol! I agree and also find 5k to be closer to what I like best although the 4400-4800k tints I have are all pretty good, better than cool white for sure. My SC5w and SC5fd are my two favorites with Nichia a close 2nd. Even though the SC5w is rated at 4400k I think mine is closer to 4700-4800k range as it's similar to my SC5fd rated for 5k but a tad warmer.

Also, should we start a separate SC63 thread since it will be announced and available for preorder soon? That way this thread can be more specific for the MK3.


----------



## jhe888

snowlover91 said:


> The 11-30 was based on initial preorders, the earlier you preordered the better. The demand is so high that some preorders won't be fulfilled until a few weeks later when more shipments arrive which is what sounds like you're seeing. It will be worth the wait though, which model did you order?



I ordered neutral white. I'd rather have a little yellowish over a little bluish. I don't like what bluish light does to colors.

I can wait a bit, I guess. I don't have a choice, do I?


----------



## CM2010

My order has changed to processing.


----------



## Glock27

CM2010 said:


> My order has changed to processing.



My order has been in "Processing" for 31 days! The big questions are How big will the first shipment be and How many were Pre-Ordered. I would prefer not to have to wait even longer for another shipment...

G27


----------



## sdr

Yep! I'm in Cali and my order has been processing since Oct. 31 - Those of us who live in the US and ordered early *should* be getting tracking #'s any day now (he said with fingers crossed)??? 





*Puh-leese!*​


----------



## KeepingItLight

snowlover91 said:


> Also, should we start a separate SC63 thread since it will be announced and available for preorder soon? That way this thread can be more specific for the MK3.



Done!

The new *ZebraLight SC63* thread can be found here.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

I received a reply to my email sent to Zebralight.

My shipping date to Australia is now 28-12-2015.

i may get it in the new year.:drunk::santa::mecry:



CHEERS


----------



## markr6

***US ORDERS***

Stock arriving at ZL tomorrow (Friday) or Monday. So I would plan on a Monday-Tuesday ship date!!


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> ***US ORDERS***
> 
> Stock arriving at ZL tomorrow (Friday) or Monday. So I would plan on a Monday-Tuesday ship date!!







That sounds like good news to me! Thanks, mate!


----------



## Skivvy9r

markr6 said:


> ***US ORDERS***
> 
> Stock arriving at ZL tomorrow (Friday) or Monday. So I would plan on a Monday-Tuesday ship date!!



On Dec 7, I received the following notice from Zebralight in response to a query: "The estimated shipping date is Dec 21, 2015. Sorry for the waiting." 

Not sure if that's specifically for me, with an original order date of 11/13 or their estimated date to start shipping. I love Zebralight's product, but customer support is poor.


----------



## markr6

Skivvy9r said:


> On Dec 7, I received the following notice from Zebralight in response to a query: "The estimated shipping date is Dec 21, 2015. Sorry for the waiting."
> 
> Not sure if that's specifically for me, with an original order date of 11/13 or their estimated date to start shipping. I love Zebralight's product, but customer support is poor.



I ordered on 11/4 and even then, not sure I made the first batch. The customer service is OK with me. I always get a 24-hour response with whatever questions I have. Other than that, it's nice they give us an ETA (even if it's not accurate). Some manufacturers just wait to announce the product until it's actually available. No suspense to chew on there.


----------



## jhe888

markr6 said:


> I ordered on 11/4 and even then, not sure I made the first batch. The customer service is OK with me. I always get a 24-hour response with whatever questions I have. Other than that, it's nice they give us an ETA (even if it's not accurate). Some manufacturers just wait to announce the product until it's actually available. No suspense to chew on there.



An advance announcement and projected shipping date is good if it is generally accurate. An ETA that turns out to be three or four weeks off is not good. That is especially true if they are taking orders and charging credit cards. If you take orders and money, the estimated shipping date should be very close to right on the money. If it turns out to be inaccurate, you should be extremely forthcoming, detailed, and specific with an explanation and a revised shipping date. 

For example, in this case, if the earliest orders will ship in three weeks, say so. And if later orders may not be shipped for another two weeks, all that should be unambiguously clear. The website should no longer say shipping is expected to start on November 30, as that clearly did not happen.

It isn't the end of the world, and it isn't like I am driving to Dallas to throw a fit, but that would be the model of excellent customer service.


----------



## markr6

jhe888 said:


> The website should no longer say shipping is expected to start on November 30, as that clearly did not happen.



Yeah I understand. This never happened with ZL to my knowledge though. In fact, once it happened 1-2 weeks early for me! I don't mind anyone charging me as long as they eventually get me the product. Maybe it's a tactic to generate interest? I don't know.

When they put out those dates, I just figure a few weeks late and watch my email like a hawk.


----------



## rejsr

I just got my shipping notice for my SC600 MK III XHP35 Cool White ordered on 11/8


----------



## markr6

SC600w III and SC600 III SHIPPED! HELLS YEAH!!!! 9 business days late off the ETA. Good enough.

edit: I should have them next Tuesday by 9AM. Can't wait!!


----------



## seasam

oh maybe mine is coming.... ordered 11/1.... no ship notice yet :sick2:


----------



## sdr

I just got another order confirmation, just like the one I received 11 days ago. When I first opened the email and saw that ZebraLight header my heart skipped a beat. In that instant, for a millisecond, I thought that there would surely be a tracking number to be discovered buried within that email. Sadly it was not to be. Once again it was simply an order confirmation. Only that and nothing more...tap, tap, tapping at my chamber door...


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> SC600w III and SC600 III SHIPPED! HELLS YEAH!!!! 9 business days late off the ETA. Good enough.
> 
> edit: I should have them next Tuesday by 9AM. Can't wait!!



Cant wait to see the results, especially the CW version has me interested. Be sure to post lots of pics and impressions as well as the tail cap! Tail cap measurements would also be awesome!


----------



## sdr

seasam said:


> oh maybe mine is coming.... ordered 11/1.... no ship notice yet :sick2:



Don't feel bad. I ordered on 10/31 and I don't have a tracking number, yet, either. *sigh*


----------



## scs

This thread's kinda like a support group for you guys.


----------



## seasam

sdr said:


> Don't feel bad. I ordered on 10/31 and I don't have a tracking number, yet, either. *sigh*



hang in there man :grouphug:


----------



## LeukTech

sdr said:


> I just got another order confirmation, just like the one I received 11 days ago. When I first opened the email and saw that ZebraLight header my heart skipped a beat. In that instant, for a millisecond, I thought that there would surely be a tracking number to be discovered buried within that email. Sadly it was not to be. Once again it was simply an order confirmation. Only that and nothing more...tap, tap, tapping at my chamber door...




Yup, same thing for me. I was excited to see the email, only to see it was just another "Your order has been placed" email. Hopefully that doesn't mean I got bumped to the next shipment, which might not be for many many weeks. 

I ordered on November 2nd. Got the first "Order has been placed" email the same time as everybody else here who preordered early. I'm thinking about contacting them, as if others in the US got their shipping notice who ordered right around the same time as me, then I should have one as well.


----------



## sdr

LeukTech said:


> Yup, same thing for me. I was excited to see the email, only to see it was just another "Your order has been placed" email. Hopefully that doesn't mean I got bumped to the next shipment, which might not be for many many weeks.
> 
> I ordered on November 2nd. Got the first "Order has been placed" email the same time as everybody else here who preordered early. I'm thinking about contacting them, as if others in the US got their shipping notice who ordered right around the same time as me, then I should have one as well.



I just sent them a "I want mine" crybaby email about 30 minutes ago. I'll let you know what they say..."IF" they choose to respond?


----------



## sdr

sdr said:


> I just sent them a "I want mine" crybaby email about 30 minutes ago. I'll let you know what they say..."IF" they choose to respond?



Okay! The good folks at ZL were kind enough to respond to my recent query regarding a shipping date. They informed me that my light would ship on Monday Dec. 14 - this coming Monday. But since it hasn't shipped yet I still have no tracking number.

So, LeukTech, take heart! Yours will probably ship on Monday, also. I am curious, though, why some folks in the US who placed orders after myself and LeukTech got tracking numbers before us. For me, at least, the only plausible explanation that I can think of is that when I placed this order I opted for free shipping as opposed to paying for expedited, which I will usually go for if I am ordering an item that is in stock. With this pre-order I figured that it would be so far off it wouldn't matter one way or the other and took advantage of the free shipping.

So, Mark, perhaps you or one of the other lucky American members with a tracking number can chime in on whether you opted for the free or priority shipping and help us unravel the mystery of why some of us early birds do or don't have tracking numbers. OR, if someone at ZebraLight who has been watching this thread grow to more than 30 pages, and laughing their arse off, would care to elaborate? I'm sure that we would be all ears!

In any event, Monday is my target date for a tracking number. I hope everyone else gets theirs, as well. I am REALLY REALLY looking forward to this particular light! I know y'all are, too!


----------



## markr6

Priority shipping for me. I was patient enough to wait 40 days, but not patient to wait an extra day for First Class shipping


----------



## seasam

markr6 said:


> Priority shipping for me. I was patient enough to wait 40 days, but not patient to wait an extra day for First Class shipping



I should have gotten priority shipping :hairpull:. I can't live without this thing :laughing:


----------



## LeukTech

sdr said:


> Okay! The good folks at ZL were kind enough to respond to my recent query regarding a shipping date. They informed me that my light would ship on Monday Dec. 14 - this coming Monday. But since it hasn't shipped yet I still have no tracking number.
> 
> So, LeukTech, take heart! Yours will probably ship on Monday, also. I am curious, though, why some folks in the US who placed orders after myself and LeukTech got tracking numbers before us. For me, at least, the only plausible explanation that I can think of is that when I placed this order I opted for free shipping as opposed to paying for expedited, which I will usually go for if I am ordering an item that is in stock. With this pre-order I figured that it would be so far off it wouldn't matter one way or the other and took advantage of the free shipping.
> 
> So, Mark, perhaps you or one of the other lucky American members with a tracking number can chime in on whether you opted for the free or priority shipping and help us unravel the mystery of why some of us early birds do or don't have tracking numbers. OR, if someone at ZebraLight who has been watching this thread grow to more than 30 pages, and laughing their arse off, would care to elaborate? I'm sure that we would be all ears!
> 
> In any event, Monday is my target date for a tracking number. I hope everyone else gets theirs, as well. I am REALLY REALLY looking forward to this particular light! I know y'all are, too!




Yeah I got the same reply from ZL as well, mine should ship out this coming Monday! :twothumbs

For those that got theirs shipped Friday and live close to ZL, they might have the light in their hands on Monday or Tuesday, can't wait for some first impressions while I anxiously await mine to arrive.


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> Priority shipping for me. I was patient enough to wait 40 days, but not patient to wait an extra day for First Class shipping



Thanks for your response. I don't know what else would account for the delay in shipping even though we placed our orders days prior to the ones who already now have tracking numbers? 

Hindsight being 20/20, I wish that I had opted for the priority mail, now. I guess I really hadn't anticipated the _"Thread Effect"_ ~ How much my desire would build during the time that I was waiting and participating in this CandlePowerForum's discussion? 

Oh, well. *sigh* I guess it's just a matter of wait n' see, now? Hopefully those of us who have been placed on ZebraLight's backburner will get our tracking numbers, as promised, on Monday? And then our new Lights shortly thereafter? 

I think that right after the first of next year I'll be checking into a Rehab? Some place that treats this dreaded disease that we suffer from - The insatiable need to illuminate the night with a handheld device! My name is Ron and I am powerless over flashlights ~ I need HELP!






_
**Edit to add: How apropos that this is my 100th post and I have now become an official "Flashaholic!"_ 
Coincidence? I think not!​


----------



## snowlover91

Wait till the SC63 is released... And then their tail cap clicky light they've had on the spreadsheet for awhile... It only gets worse! The extra QC, better customer service and better tint in their lights have really helped in recent years as well.


----------



## gottawearshades

Personally, I'm really waiting to pick up a second SC62 on clearance, maybe two.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Tail cap clicky light?


----------



## snowlover91

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Tail cap clicky light?



Their spread sheet has a T60 model of light which appears to be a tail cap clicky light but no other info. I tried finding out but ZL said they didn't have any further info on it for now and they removed the 2015 release date. It is probably a prototype and in development so who knows if we ever see it or not. I for one would love to see a tail clicky from ZL, curious to see their UI if they did release one.


----------



## LeukTech

snowlover91 said:


> I for one would love to see a tail clicky from ZL, curious to see their UI if they did release one.



I would like to see something similar to what Eagletac is doing with their side-click/tail-clicky lights, but executed better. 

I recently picked up a DX30LC2 with an XP-L HI (surprisingly good tint for a dedome, not yellow or green at all) and I do really like how they have combined the side-clicky with the tail-clicky, but it's not perfect. You can instantly access the lowest and highest modes from off, and once it's on you can cycle through the rest by clicking the side-button. Only real issue I have is in order to access the lowest mode from off, you need to hold the side-clicky at the same time as you turn the light on with the tail-clicky. Works decently if you have two-hands available, but quite difficult to do this combination with one hand, and even if you manage you aren't going to do it very quickly. 

What I think would be much better is if pressing from off (or maybe even holding for a split second) the side-button to turn the light on to the lowest level, that way instant access from off to the highest and lowest levels would be possible, and quickly accessed, with one hand. Only problem with this is that the standard tail-clicky used cuts off all contact between the battery and the body of the flashlight. So I would imagine the only way to have this work would to actually have two electronic switches, one on the side and one on the tailcap. 

As for how ZL could do this, I would like to see some kind of programming options to change the default behavior of the tail/side buttons when accessing them from off. Perhaps a swap of modes. For example:

From off: 

Mode subset #1
- Single click on side button goes to highest programmed mode (how the ZL UI works now)
- Single click on tail-clicky goes to lowest programmed mode

Mode subset #2
- Single click on side button goes to lowest programmed mode
- Single click on tail-clicky goes to highest programmed mode


Having this side/tail clicky combination would provide quick and predictable access to both high and low from off, and no more accidentally blinding yourself from not holding the side-button long enough to enter low mode (the current ZL UI).


----------



## fnj

Side switch + tail switch: completely at odds with what ZebraLight's philosophy is and what distinguishes them. A tail clickie takes up a huge amount of space. ZebraLights are very compact, and I for one appreciate and celebrate it. Other manufacturers already have the two-switch thing covered, and I wish them the best too.

I understand your idea for two electronic switches, neither one a clickie, and I admit there is some potential there. The space overhead wouldn't be as great, though it would still exist.

I can come up with another idea, though, which addresses the blinding issue without necessitating an extra switch. It's just a software logic mod. Click quick from off gets you max, just like now. The difference: a long press from off gets you min - no matter how long! Long press from on could work just like it does now.


----------



## gunga

I dunno. There are lots of tail clicky lights around. The great side switch makes Zebralights pretty unique.


----------



## Kamerat

I got 6 (six) order confirmations for the ZLSC600w Mk3 between 03:38 and 03:45 tonight (it's 07:30 morning now). DHL.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

My order of a SC600 MkIII has been shipped today to Australia.

The delivery date via DHL is estimated as being this Thursday December 17th.

My XMAS present will actually be here well before XMAS.

Thank god I chose DHL even though it costs heaps more.

DHL is very reliable and the tracking is accurate and updated regularly.



*CHEERS* :rock::twothumbs:thumbsup::santa::santa::santa::santa::santa::santa::santa::santa::santa:


----------



## markr6

SC63 specs updated - will have the XHP35.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> SC63 specs updated - will have the XHP35.



Of course they would put 12/2015 as the release date and leave all specs like lumens, length, etc to leave us in suspense. Still waiting for the HI version of the MK3.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> Still waiting for the HI version of the MK3.



I figured all 3 of those would be updated/released at the same time since the bodies appear to the be same size. Swap the LED and maybe reflector and done. Maybe it's a sourcing issue. Or they're just spreading out the wait time for maximum torture.


----------



## snowlover91

My guess is they're probably waiting to make sure no unforeseen issues with the first batch of lights and maybe to optimize the reflector to get the best throw out of the HI emitter. Since it's flat vs domed the LED just needs to be closer to the reflector. They may be slightly changing the reflector to account for this or they could be waiting to make sure no issues with these new LED's. Could also have to do with initial demand for the MK3 is quite high and they wait for it to slow some before releasing the HI version. Not sure though, that's the only things I can think of.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Kamerat said:


> I got 6 (six) order confirmations for the ZLSC600w Mk3 between 03:38 and 03:45 tonight (it's 07:30 morning now). DHL.




I got got three shipping notifications within 5 minutes today.

Why do you reckon that happens?

Is it human error or a computer at ZL that has nothing better to do?


CHEERS


----------



## wolfstyle

Where are you guys seeing the SC63? I'm not seeing it on zebralight's website.


----------



## markr6

wolfstyle said:


> Where are you guys seeing the SC63? I'm not seeing it on zebralight's website.



Click on "Compare all models" on their website or:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...Fc0FfUDFVSHVNS1E&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0


----------



## wolfstyle

markr6 said:


> Click on "Compare all models" on their website or:
> 
> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...Fc0FfUDFVSHVNS1E&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0



Thanks. Doesn't work in FireFox, but IE opens it fine.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

wolfstyle said:


> Thanks. Doesn't work in FireFox, but IE opens it fine.




You are correct.

I use Firefox and the spreadsheet does not come up.

I have used Firefox for many years now and always was able to look at that spreadsheet.

Damn it!!!!



CHEERS


----------



## CreeCrazy

I received an email saying the new estimated ship date is 12/22/15 after I asked again. I ordered on 11/8 from the US.


----------



## markr6

Yeah that's too bad. I got a tracking number to nowhere. I'm guessing it was an error by now.


----------



## jhe888

CreeCrazy said:


> I received an email saying the new estimated ship date is 12/22/15 after I asked again. I ordered on 11/8 from the US.



Well, dammit. I'm thinking it will be January before they actually arrive.


----------



## seasam

ok got my USPS tracking number just now for first class shipping. Ordered the sc600w MK3 on 11/1.


----------



## sdr

Well, I just got my tracking number. But it doesn't register, yet, with the post office. It usually takes a day to get into the system. So this is good news for me (I hope!)

But, Mark...What are you saying...I thought you got your shipping notice last week? Are you now saying that that is in question?


----------



## seasam

let us pray for mark's sc600 mk3 :grouphug:


----------



## markr6

HAHA crisis averted! Must have been some fluke...but they're on the way. The mail has been flaky lately but should be Thursday now. CAN NOT WAIT!


----------



## LeukTech

I got two emails, one after another, with tracking. :twothumbs

I'll actually attempt to track them sometime after midnight, should be active and updated by then, hopefully with an estimated delivery date!


----------



## sdr

I would really be curious to know how many SC600 Mk III's ZebraLight actually got in their shipment to the U.S.? I'm curious because they (ZL) were claiming that because of the large number of pre-orders that were placed, almost immediately, that they would not be able to fill all of those orders from that first batch that they received. I wonder how big that batch was? And just how quick they sold-out that first pre-order? What was the cut-off date?

Has anyone who ordered AFTER Dec. 4th received a shipping notice? It would seem that the folks who ordered after that date (or shortly thereafter) will be waiting for a second batch to arrive around the 21st or 22nd? I say that based upon some of the recent postings here at CPF.

It would seem that ZebraLight has yet another very HOT item on their hands. And, I'm sure that after some early reviews praising the new Mk III start rolling in that it will be even hotter that ever! (He said, optimistically)


----------



## sdr

Yay! Just excited that my Tracking Number is now showing that a shipping label has been created and it's coming from Irving, TX. Yay! It's definitely on it's way.


----------



## twistedraven

My shipping label just got created last hour as well. Since Zebralight is based in Dallas and I'm San Antonio, I should get mine Wednesday or Thursday.


----------



## Glock27

I ordered a SC600w Dec. 2nd and haven't received a shipping notice.

G27


----------



## KQL

I ordered on Nov 28th, haven't heard anything since then. No shipping notice.


----------



## sdr

sdr said:


> I would really be curious to know how many SC600 Mk III's ZebraLight actually got in their shipment to the U.S.? I'm curious because they (ZL) were claiming that because of the large number of pre-orders that were placed, almost immediately, that they would not be able to fill all of those orders from that first batch that they received. I wonder how big that batch was? And just how quick they sold-out that first pre-order? What was the cut-off date?
> 
> Has anyone who ordered AFTER Dec. 4th received a shipping notice? It would seem that the folks who ordered after that date (or shortly thereafter) will be waiting for a second batch to arrive around the 21st or 22nd? I say that based upon some of the recent postings here at CPF.
> 
> It would seem that ZebraLight has yet another very HOT item on their hands. And, I'm sure that after some early reviews praising the new Mk III start rolling in that it will be even hotter that ever! (He said, optimistically)



Wow! I just realized that I had posted the date of Dec. 4 in the message above. That date should have been Nov. 4th. I doubt that anyone who ordered a Mk III after that would be getting a light from this first batch that ZL received here in the States. That's why I was curious to know if anyone had ordered after that date and has since received a shipping date? Sorry for my screw-up on the dates. I meant Nov. 4th. 

I have spent most of today on the phone with Microsoft tech support in India. My computer is messed up worse than ever now! Windows 10 keeps vanishing from my computer. I wake up each morning and find that I have NO operating system.


----------



## Humantorch

My first post, but I have been lurking anonymously for a few months...

I placed an order on 14th November, and mine has been shipped and is arriving in 2 days...

I hope you all get your MK III's very soon

John.


----------



## texas cop

Humantorch said:


> My first post, but I have been lurking anonymously for a few months...
> 
> I placed an order on 14th November, and mine has been shipped and is arriving in 2 days...
> 
> I hope you all get your MK III's very soon
> 
> John.



Congratulation, you might just write the first review. No pressure here, just the facts.


----------



## sdr

Hey, John/aka/Humantorch!

Thanks for posting and congrats on scoring a Mk III. Your post lets me know that either this first batch was larger than I thought and/or they didn't all get snatched up on pre-order in the first week. If you ordered yours on the 14th of November and got one, then, I'd say you got really lucky! You're gonna love it, too!

Cheers, mate!


----------



## seasam

I'm estimated for Friday the 18th, definitely won't be the first. Someone post pics


----------



## sdr

seasam said:


> I'm estimated for Friday the 18th, definitely won't be the first. Someone post pics



Ditto...the 18th for me, too! I can hardly wait!


----------



## markr6

USPOS is at it again. Shipped Monday, scheduled for Saturday (at work) so I won't have it until Monday. It could change, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I'm not sure when Priority Mail (1-3 days) started taking 5 days. Wasted money.


----------



## newbie66

markr6 said:


> USPOS is at it again. Shipped Monday, scheduled for Saturday (at work) so I won't have it until Monday. It could change, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
> 
> I'm not sure when Priority Mail (1-3 days) started taking 5 days. Wasted money.



Ouch!
Hopefully not by too much. I suppose the important thing right now is that you receive it in good condition.


----------



## markr6

No big deal, but I am impatient! And I just wish USPS would just stop giving tracking numbers altogether if they're going to be so useless and if their Priority Mail 3-Day is actually going to be 5 days. I've been buying a lot online lately and every USPS piece comes at least 1 day late. The tracking just about useless too.


----------



## newbie66

markr6 said:


> No big deal, but I am impatient! And I just wish USPS would just stop giving tracking numbers altogether if they're going to be so useless and if their Priority Mail 3-Day is actually going to be 5 days. I've been buying a lot online lately and every USPS piece comes at least 1 day late. The tracking just about useless too.



Their inefficiency could be due to the workforce being cut down (http://www.postal-reporter.com/blog...-years-over-258000-less-employees-in-7-years/).
I can understand your impatience. I too have a hard time waiting. 

You may also want to check this news: 
http://www.kare11.com/story/news/lo...-day-of-the-year-for-us-post-office/77276832/


----------



## uofaengr

Maybe it'll show up early. I don't understand how they operate either, but I ordered something midday last Wednesday and it was shipped USPS First Class over 2000 miles away, and it was in my mailbox 2 days later... 
It's weird but seems like in certain parts of the country, things send and receive faster though they're further away. I've shipped and received several things First Class to and from the Northwest (2000-2500 miles away) and 95% of the time it's received in 2 days. However, stuff from Texas seems like it takes forever.


----------



## newbie66

Odd. They probably prioritize the long distance packages. Just guessing though.:shrug:


----------



## markr6

newbie66 said:


> You may also want to check this news:
> http://www.kare11.com/story/news/lo...-day-of-the-year-for-us-post-office/77276832/



Oh great timing 

I wish I shipped them to my home so I would have them Saturday.


----------



## newbie66

Try not to think about it and before you know it, the package has arrived.


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> Oh great timing
> 
> I wish I shipped them to my home so I would have them Saturday.



Dude! What a bummer! Based on your posting last Friday I assumed that you would have your light today, Tuesday the 15th? Now, are you saying that because it's addressed to your work and not your home that you won't have it until next Monday, the 21st? Ouch! That would have to hurt!

My tracking is indicating that my light has departed Southlake, TX. as of yesterday evening at 7:17 pm and is expected at my address on Friday the 18th. I'm hoping for Thursday, though. (fingers crossed)

Good grief, Charlie Brown! Does anybody actually have one of these highly prized illumination devices in their physical possession, yet?

Hang in there, Mark! Before you know it we'll all be anticipating another new, better, best, torch from another maker and this will all be ancient history. Ho! Ho! Ho!


----------



## seasam

this thread is silly but amusing


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> Oh great timing
> 
> I wish I shipped them to my home so I would have them Saturday.



At this rate the SC63 will be released and shipping before it gets to you. I've never had troubles here with USPS but I have with UPS before. Hope someone gets one of these in hand soon, the wait is killing me!


----------



## texas cop

I hope it's as bright as the post count.


----------



## markr6

texas cop said:


> I hope it's as bright as the post count.



LOL! 1004? I think we have a few pages to go yet or else we got ripped off!


----------



## Oztorchfreak

My SC600 MkIII just arrived delivered by DHL.

Yay!!!!!:thumbsup::twothumbs:drunk:

XMAS did come early. :santa:

I hope you guys get yours soon.

Has anyone else received their lights yet?


CHEERS


----------



## gunga

Please provide feedback!


----------



## fnsooner

Yay is right!! Tell us more.


----------



## sdr

Oztorchfreak said:


> My SC600 MkIII just arrived delivered by DHL.
> 
> Yay!!!!!:thumbsup::twothumbs:drunk:
> 
> XMAS did come early. :santa:
> 
> I hope you guys get yours soon.
> 
> Has anyone else received their lights yet?
> 
> 
> CHEERS



Without pictures it never happened! We need photographic evidence!


(On the off-chance that it _might_ have happened...Congrat-U-ma-lations!)


----------



## markr6

Getting excited!! Mine are in state and literally 2 hours south of me. It's Tuesday night as I type and it still says a delivery date of Saturday. Either that will be updated to Thursday-Friday, or USPOS sucks 952 times more than I originally though.

I think I know how crack and heroin addicts feel now. It's a freaking flashlight!!!


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Big problem guys!!!

None of my protected batteries of many brands fit my new SCMkIII.

CRAP!!!!

I will be sending it back for a refund.

Are these guys serious spoiling a perfectly good line of products.


CHEERS


----------



## jhe888

The Zebralight website was very clear that the 18650s need to be 65mm cells. That leaves out all protected cells I know of. Zebralight confirmed that to me. I have some new cells waiting for the light to arrive.

And I ordered on December 7. The expected shipping date is January 4. I wish they hadn't charged me until shipping, but I'll get over it.


----------



## sdr

Oz, where have you been, man? About half of this thread has been devoted to the topic of what batteries will fit in this puppy. And, anyway you slice it, it always comes back...naked 65mm cells. I hope you're not really sending it back? Especially after waiting all this time!


----------



## snowlover91

Oztorchfreak said:


> Big problem guys!!!
> 
> None of my protected batteries of many brands fit my new SCMkIII.
> 
> CRAP!!!!
> 
> I will be sending it back for a refund.
> 
> Are these guys serious spoiling a perfectly good line of products.
> 
> 
> CHEERS



Sorry to hear about that, they did make it clear on the site about using unprotected only and much of this thread has been dedicated to discussing battery types. Instead of sending it back, order some good quality unprotected cells and you'll be much happier. They perform better, have higher discharge ratings and the built in protection in the light makes protected batteries redundant. Give it a try


----------



## Megaphobema

Ordered my 600w on Nov. 12th ... Emailed inquiry yesterday, asking estimated ship date. Got a reply today ... 2 weeks until it ships ...

[emoji17]


----------



## Oztorchfreak

snowlover91 said:


> Sorry to hear about that, they did make it clear on the site about using unprotected only and much of this thread has been dedicated to discussing battery types. Instead of sending it back, order some good quality unprotected cells and you'll be much happier. They perform better, have higher discharge ratings and the built in protection in the light makes protected batteries redundant. Give it a try




I have lots of unprotected 18650 batteries but I still do not see why a company would force people who normally use protected batteries to buy unprotected batteries just use this new light.

This is ridiculous.

It will not hurt me as I have many unprotected batteries in other lights and many spares.

I just think the whole idea of forcing the unprotected batteries on us just to save a tiny bit of length is just plain stupid and not good business practice.



CHEERS


----------



## akhyar

Well, you can use some of your unprotected batteries inside this light and if you don't like what you seeing, can always return it for a refund.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

akhyar said:


> Well, you can use some of your unprotected batteries inside this light and if you don't like what you seeing, can always return it for a refund.





I like how the beam looks and the tint is good, it's just the battery thing gets my thumbs down.

It means if I run out of batteries on one of my field trips I can't borrow a battery from someone else as most of them use protected batteries.

*STUPID ZEBRALIGHT MANAGEMENT.*


CHEERS


----------



## KeepingItLight

Oztorchfreak said:


> I just think the whole idea of forcing the unprotected batteries on us just to save a tiny bit of length is just plain stupid and not good business practice.



If size were the reason for the change, I would agree. There has been a lot of speculation, however, that the electronics in the new driver are the primary reason for the change. 

Here is how you can learn about it. Use the "Search Thread" command at the top of the page to look for all of my posts. Go back to the earliest, and work your way forward. When you see one that discusses the driver or batteries, read it, and the discussion that follows.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Oztorchfreak said:


> I just think the whole idea of forcing the unprotected batteries on us just to save a tiny bit of length is just plain stupid and not good business practice.



The current drain required also means that using a bare 18650 is desirable. This is also where you can't just use cheap 18650 cells that aren't rated for 2C continuous. 

Depending on where you are, I am pretty sure some people will be happy to save you the return postage and take it off your hands.


----------



## LeukTech

Wow, my shipping time got cut WAY back. Just checked the tracking and my MKIII arrived at a post office in which whenever I see that destination, I get it the next day. 

Original delivery date was scheduled for Saturday, but I get a lot of things shipped USPS and usually anywhere in the US for me is 2-3 days (unless something goes wrong, which it does every now and then, but I always get what was shipped to me.... eventually).

Not going to get my hopes up for a Wednesday delivery (knowing my luck), but I'll be nice and happy if I check tracking in the morning and see it out for delivery. :twothumbs

Also to Oz, pretty sure the use of unprotected high-drain batteries is not just to shave off 3mm in length (that would be incredibly stupid of ZL if that was their only reason). The emitter itself has a very high forward voltage, and many have predicted that ZL is using the raw amperage output to boost voltage. Most good 18650 protected cells are around 6.8A max current draw (with a capacity of 3400mAh), well a lot of modern day high drain batteries can push 35A or more, plus a lot of the high-drain offerings are actually much safer than the standard protected Li-ion cells. 

I would be curious of the tailcap current draw on the MKIII though. You got a DMM handy? Just make sure you use one that can handle the amperage if it is high, I know the one I use has a 10A limit.


----------



## seasam

did we determine if the sc600 mk3 uses spring contacts like the sc5?


----------



## keeperofdakeys

seasam said:


> did we determine if the sc600 mk3 uses spring contacts like the sc5?



I think it was using some kind of pin or contact. If we ask someone who has one nicely, I'm sure we'll get some photos.


----------



## teckul

Oztorchfreak said:


> Big problem guys!!!
> 
> None of my protected batteries of many brands fit my new SCMkIII.
> 
> CRAP!!!!
> 
> I will be sending it back for a refund.
> 
> Are these guys serious spoiling a perfectly good line of products.
> 
> 
> CHEERS



That's seriously lame and has affected my possible purchase.....I'll stick with my SC600 MKII !!


----------



## Oztorchfreak

keeperofdakeys said:


> I think it was using some kind of pin or contact. If we ask someone who has one nicely, I'm sure we'll get some photos.





There are no springs in either end.

They are using gold plated pins in the ends that are springy mounted on an insulated plate.

The tail has 4 pins and the head has 3 pins.


CHEERS


----------



## markr6

THEYRE HERE!!!! Yes!!! The mail guy usually comes at 3 PM, today was 7:42 AM. Weird! Feedback soon...

Now I feel bad for bashing USPS so much


----------



## seasam

markr6 said:


> THEYRE HERE!!!! Yes!!! The mail guy usually comes at 3 PM, today was 7:42 AM. Weird! Feedback soon...


----------



## fnsooner

markr6 said:


> THEYRE HERE!!!! Yes!!! The mail guy usually comes at 3 PM, today was 7:42 AM. Weird! Feedback soon...



Sweet. Looking forward to your thoughts. Here’s to you having a power outage at work today.


----------



## snowlover91

Oztorchfreak said:


> I have lots of unprotected 18650 batteries but I still do not see why a company would force people who normally use protected batteries to buy unprotected batteries just use this new light.
> 
> This is ridiculous.
> 
> It will not hurt me as I have many unprotected batteries in other lights and many spares.
> 
> I just think the whole idea of forcing the unprotected batteries on us just to save a tiny bit of length is just plain stupid and not good business practice.
> 
> 
> 
> CHEERS



As mentioned throughout this thread the change was made not to prevent customers from using protected batteries or to make it smaller but because the LED used and extra lumens require it. A protected cell would not be able to supply the necessary amperage without tripping the circuit and resulting in customer disappoint. It's not like they didn't tell anyone it would need these batteries, they made it very clear and the reason for the switch is because the LED requires the high amperage that only unprotected cells can supply.


----------



## markr6

I really think it's more than just the amps required. A good protected NCR18650GA can usually handle up to 7A or 8A. But the key word there is _good_. They probably did themselves a big favor by skipping the protected altogether since there are good cells+bad PCB, bad cell+bad PCB, etc. So that should keep the complaints down from people buying fake Efest junk then complaining when the protection trips prematurely. Or when the output is far short of the specs.

Disclaimer: that's all speculation


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> THEYRE HERE!!!! Yes!!! The mail guy usually comes at 3 PM, today was 7:42 AM. Weird! Feedback soon...


Wow...I seriously think all the postal workers around here are still asleep at 742am, lucky you. Maybe now we can get some actual feedback rather than a rehashed battery discussion...


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> THEYRE HERE!!!! Yes!!! The mail guy usually comes at 3 PM, today was 7:42 AM. Weird! Feedback soon...



Indeed! Once again illustrating that even a blind squirrel gets an acorn every now and then. You lucky dog! 

My tracking # is still showing the expected day of delivery to be Friday the 18th. I am dying over here! Dying to get one in my hot n' sweaty little hand, that is! C'mon, man, give us some pics...some thoughts...something! Throw us a bone!


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Wow...I seriously think all the postal workers around here are still asleep at 742am, lucky you. Maybe now we can get some actual feedback rather than a rehashed battery discussion...


 
I'm currently charging up some NCR18650GA which I just wrapped with clear wrappers. I like ZERO battery rattle, which that always eliminates. So I'm 99% sure they'll fit. Length won't be a problem. Got the SC600w II ready for comparison.


----------



## snowlover91

sdr said:


> Indeed! Once again illustrating that even a blind squirrel gets an acorn every now and then. You lucky dog!
> 
> My tracking # is still showing the expected day of delivery to be Friday the 18th. I am dying over here! Dying to get one in my hot n' sweaty little hand, that is! C'mon, man, give us some pics...some thoughts...something! Throw us a bone!



Mark has been on a roll with ZL recently, his previous order (SC5w OP I think?) was shipped a week or two before the preorder release date while my SC5fd that had been released a few weeks previous hadn't yet shipped lol! How he was able to get his several weeks before the release date we will never know! And now getting them delivered at 7:42am by USPS?? That's unheard of lol what luck!

Now just don't keep us waiting on the results we are all dying to know!!! Tell us something please! Also what cells you're using, what the tint looks like on both models, and everything else!


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> I'm currently charging up some NCR18650GA which I just wrapped with clear wrappers. I like ZERO battery rattle, which that always eliminates. So I'm 99% sure they'll fit. Length won't be a problem. Got the SC600w II ready for comparison.



Did they rattle any when you put them in or do you typically do this with unprotected cells? I have the same cells so curious if they fit since the specs has them at 65.3mm, which I'm thinking they'll be fine. How do you like the new design vs the MK2? How long before those batteries are charged lol!


----------



## ven

Awesome news mark, look forward to your impressions as its high on my list right now


----------



## markr6

Cells still charging...AHHH the suspense is killing me. I'll pull them off the charger around 4.0v






Comparison






ZL included an *NCR18650BF *in each light!! I don't need any more 18650s, but thanks 






SC5-ish style cap we all assumed would happen





They were not joking about the unprotected 65mm cell length. I tried one of my unprotected, button top 18650GA and the extra 1.5-2mm feels too tight...not going to crush it in there. Flat tops feel just right.

It feels SOOO much smaller than the SC600II. Like I always say, once you get to a certain size (typical EDC), _every _little bit helps. A lot!

The springs, at least at the head end, give a little. When I push the batter on it I would guess 1mm at best. I noticed the NCR18650GA compared to the NCR18650BF has a slightly raised top; the BF is almost recessed below the actual case. Doesn't seem to be a problem, but shows you how close the tolerance is here. Any flattop should be fine (Samsung 25R, 18650A/B, MH1, 30Q)


----------



## kj2

Thanks for the pics! :thumbsup:

Will order one, as soon they arrive at the dealer here.


----------



## sdr

Congrats and thanks for the pics and initial impressions. I'm loving the new look with the fins. They should definitely help with the dispersion of heat. I'm so excited about the smaller size, too! I'm sitting here with my original SC600 and the Mk II L2, using them for comparison. Yet another step down in size will be awesome! Wow! I am so jealous. And, at the same time, really happy for you. It's been a long wait. There's no denying that. Enjoy, my friend!


----------



## Lumencrazy

teckul said:


> That's seriously lame and has affected my possible purchase.....I'll stick with my SC600 MKII !!



Exactly why I will buy this light. To many cheap batteries and protection circuits on the market. Running two in series (where the driver has one already built in) makes no sense.
I personally prefer to have Zebralight manage my battery and get the highest level of efficiency out of my unprotected (Panasonic) 18650B


----------



## phantom23

Mr Floppy said:


> The current drain required also means that using a bare 18650 is desirable.* This is also where you can't just use cheap 18650 cells that aren't rated for 2C continuous.*


But that's also where cheap chinese crap will fit because noname batteries are usually smaller than good ones. Many of them are unprotected. More - quality protected cells can take 5A easily. Don't try to defend Zebralight, you'll fail, there are no arguments why you shouldn't use protected cells, more - why they should force you to use unprotected cells only.


teckul said:


> That's seriously lame and has affected my possible purchase.....I'll stick with my SC600 MKII !!


Good, it's still a greal light, not really worse than MkIII. You may also find someone to swap the emitter to XP-L V6, you'll get as much light as in the MkIII without sacrificing any throw.


----------



## newbie66

Wow mark6, you got it early. Good for you. Thanks for the pics. 

Never expected them to include a cell, which is nice. I just love Zebralights.


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> I'm currently charging up some NCR18650GA which I just wrapped with clear wrappers. I like ZERO battery rattle, which that always eliminates. So I'm 99% sure they'll fit. Length won't be a problem. Got the SC600w II ready for comparison.


What?? You didn't have your batteries charged last night in anticipation? [emoji4] 

Thanks for the pics. Eager to see the tint comparison too. Nice they included a battery though I'm guessing our other lucky friend above didn't receive a battery with his? What's the max discharge of a BF? Would we be able to get a side by side pic with a SC62?


----------



## newbie66

phantom23 said:


> But that's also where cheap chinese crap will fit because noname batteries are usually smaller than good ones. Many of them are unprotected. More - quality protected cells can take 5A easily. Don't try to defend Zebralight, you'll fail, there are no arguments why you shouldn't use protected cells, more - why they should force you to use unprotected cells only.
> 
> Good, it's still a greal light, not really worse than MkIII. You may also find someone to swap the emitter to XP-L V6, you'll get as much light as in the MkIII without sacrificing any throw.



I think it's really hard to mod a Zebralight. Even vinh does not(except for the S6330).


----------



## markr6

iPhone 6 pic, so don't take it as 100% accurate. But I feel it's good enough to post and give you an idea.







*4500K*: a little dingier than I expected, but certainly not bad. I'm just totally spoiled after Nichia 5000K, perfect 3D tints, and now MT-G2. So I'm always expecting a lot. And if you like warm tints, even better of course.

*5700K*: not the "coolish-neutral" I hoped for, but again, not bad. Very clean tint with even color throughout. On max output, it's simply WHITE. Lower levels get my eyes closer to the usual cool white.

I have NO idea which one to keep! Dang it I wish I could have a mix of both. I wish one was like my SC5w OP which is better than my Nichias. Unfortunately both mk IIIs fall short when comparing to that, but on their own they're fine.

I don't want to keep both, so I have to decide...but it will be tough!


----------



## oneinthaair

markr6 said:


> iPhone 6 pic, so don't take it as 100% accurate. But I feel it's good enough to post and give you an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4500K*: a little dingier than I expected, but certainly not bad. I'm just totally spoiled after Nichia 5000K, perfect 3D tints, and now MT-G2. So I'm always expecting a lot. And if you like warm tints, even better of course.
> 
> *5700K*: not the "coolish-neutral" I hoped for, but again, not bad. Very clean tint with even color throughout. On max output, it's simply WHITE. Lower levels get my eyes closer to the usual cool white.
> 
> I have NO idea which one to keep! Dang it I wish I could have a mix of both. I wish one was like my SC5w OP which is better than my Nichias. Unfortunately both mk IIIs fall short when comparing to that, but on their own they're fine.
> 
> I don't want to keep both, so I have to decide...but it will be tough!



I'll take which ever one you wanna sale! Paypal ready! Lol


----------



## ven

Great pics Mark, thanks for sharing . Tbh out of the two it's easy to pick !



Both 

Both from the pics look very nice and I look both anyway. I still find pretty good rendition at 5700k and looks real rather than a little artificial . The 4500k would be ideal for around the house type uses for me .


----------



## newbie66

Indeed, thanks for sharing.

And I suppose ven, you are gonna get them?


----------



## seasam

phantom23 said:


> But that's also where cheap chinese crap will fit because noname batteries are usually smaller than good ones. Many of them are unprotected. More - quality protected cells can take 5A easily. Don't try to defend Zebralight, you'll fail, there are no arguments why you shouldn't use protected cells, more - why they should force you to use unprotected cells only.



Based on the "springs" they use on the Mk3 (which I imagine are to handle high amps on the boost driver) there appears to be very little travel. The lack of travel seems to indicate that it was not possible to accommodate both the 18650 standard of 65mm and the extended length of protected 18650 batteries which ends up around 70mm. 

This means ZL had the choice of either supporting a non-standard and potentially variable battery length created by "protected batteries" or the more consistent/standard size of 18650 batteries at 65mm. Given protected batteries are essentially aftermarket products with no standard, the included protection of the ZL driver, and increased amp requirement, it makes sense to use standard sized 18650 batteries to me :shrug:


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Would we be able to get a side by side pic with a SC62?



I wish I still had one to compare, but I don't. It's right inbetween that SC5 and SC600 III though. So close it almost doesn't make sense. We'll see what that SC63 brings, hopefully making a clear distinction between the two.


----------



## seasam

markr6 said:


> iPhone 6 pic, so don't take it as 100% accurate. But I feel it's good enough to post and give you an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> *4500K*: a little dingier than I expected, but certainly not bad. I'm just totally spoiled after Nichia 5000K, perfect 3D tints, and now MT-G2. So I'm always expecting a lot. And if you like warm tints, even better of course.
> 
> *5700K*: not the "coolish-neutral" I hoped for, but again, not bad. Very clean tint with even color throughout. On max output, it's simply WHITE. Lower levels get my eyes closer to the usual cool white.
> 
> I have NO idea which one to keep! Dang it I wish I could have a mix of both. I wish one was like my SC5w OP which is better than my Nichias. Unfortunately both mk IIIs fall short when comparing to that, but on their own they're fine.
> 
> I don't want to keep both, so I have to decide...but it will be tough!



looking good, thanks for sharing man. can't wait for Friday to get mine!


----------



## markr6

seasam said:


> Based on the "springs" they use on the Mk3 (which I imagine are to handle high amps on the boost driver) there appears to be very little travel. The lack of travel seems to indicate that it was not possible to accommodate both the 18650 standard of 65mm and the extended length of protected 18650 batteries which ends up around 70mm.
> 
> This means ZL had the choice of either supporting a non-standard and potentially variable battery length created by "protected batteries" or the more consistent/standard size of 18650 batteries at 65mm. Given protected batteries are essentially aftermarket products with no standard, the included protection of the ZL driver, and increased amp requirement, it makes sense to use standard sized 18650 batteries to me :shrug:



I agree with all this.

I started off using protected cells, but soon realized I didn't feel any safer with them. I appreciate others putting safety first and that's their decision, but just not in this case. Zebralight wanted to push the limit on size, weight and performance, and this is what it took. And I have a feeling they don't care to be outside of the everyday retail-ish brands like Fenix, Olight, etc. I see them more as a specialty/enthusiast type manufacturer, but the included protection does make them safe for "normal" users who are willing to do a little research (which anyone thinking "what's an 18650" should do)

I guess people can stick with the SC600 II and use protected cells. Or live dangerously and try the SC600 III if they can't resist the upgrade.


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> iPhone 6 pic, so don't take it as 100% accurate. But I feel it's good enough to post and give you an idea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *4500K*: a little dingier than I expected, but certainly not bad. I'm just totally spoiled after Nichia 5000K, perfect 3D tints, and now MT-G2. So I'm always expecting a lot. And if you like warm tints, even better of course.
> 
> *5700K*: not the "coolish-neutral" I hoped for, but again, not bad. Very clean tint with even color throughout. On max output, it's simply WHITE. Lower levels get my eyes closer to the usual cool white.
> 
> I have NO idea which one to keep! Dang it I wish I could have a mix of both. I wish one was like my SC5w OP which is better than my Nichias. Unfortunately both mk IIIs fall short when comparing to that, but on their own they're fine.
> 
> I don't want to keep both, so I have to decide...but it will be tough!


Out of those two, I think I'd have to take the 4500K. From the picture, it appears to not have the green tinges I dislike on many neutral XM-L2s and even some XP-Ls. Looks closer to one of my neutral XP-G2 tints, more tannish. I think in general, all the way down to 4000K is more pleasing to my eye rather than >5000K. Great to have choices though.


----------



## sidecross

I have three Zepralights H600Fd III High CRI Floody Neutral White 18650 Headlamp, H302w CR123 Flood Headlamp Neutral White, and SC32w CR123 Flashlight Neutral White.

These are all excellent flashlights, but for my needs I try to stay with lights that can still function with CR123a batteries. The H600Fd III High CRI Floody Neutral White 18650 is capable of running two CR123a's if you exercise restraint from using high current drain.

I live in an area prone to fire and earthquake and I like to have most of my lights capable of functioning away from an A/C power source, when needed.

This new Zebralight is excellent and I understand why so many people purchase this light. :thumbsup:


----------



## ven

newbie66 said:


> Indeed, thanks for sharing.
> 
> And I suppose ven, you are gonna get them?



Not both, xhp35 will be the led choice as i dont have one of those. Tint wise..............well dont know yet :laughing:


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> Out of those two, I think I'd have to take the 4500K. From the picture, it appears to not have the green tinges I dislike on many neutral XM-L2s and even some XP-Ls. Looks closer to one of my neutral XP-G2 tints, more tannish. I think in general, all the way down to 4000K is more pleasing to my eye rather than >5000K. Great to have choices though.



I still can't decide. Almost leaning towards the cool since the 4500K seems to warm/yellow for me. Comparing with other lights with better tints is really causing problems, as expected. I need to stop doing that! Stupid SC600 II with a nice rosy tint messing things up!

Heat dissipation seems to be good. I ran both for a minute straight and they were only slightly warm. I recall the SC62 being hot after just 1-2 minutes.

I just topped off my cells at 1500mA quick in the Opus. Going to do some better comparisons in a dark room.


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Not both, xhp35 will be the led choice as i dont have one of those. Tint wise..............well dont know yet :laughing:



Hehe, figured you would get one. 

Zebralight is the first I know of that uses this led. I too have trouble deciding on tint since I am not familiar of what to expect with my eyes.


----------



## ven

newbie66 said:


> Hehe, figured you would get one.
> 
> Zebralight is the first I know of that uses this led. I too have trouble deciding on tint since I am not familiar of what to expect with my eyes.



They are on back order right now but i am good to wait............
Well i guess if you like a slightly warmer neutral(looks a tad warmer from pic) the 4500k is a good option, having some cool lights (pd35vn etc) i am sure the 5700k would be fine too. If unsure go for a different tint, i am mainly neutral to cool but i also like having some different tints . Not sure what K is my warmest, maybe 4000k or even a little less with my m2.........but i like it!


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Re: SC62/63: Isn't the whole purpose of the SC62 having the long runtimes of 18650's with the smallest form factor? So comparing to the SC5 doesn't make sense to me. In comparing to the MKII and MKIII, for me it is all about the head diameter, which directly correlates with "chunkiness".


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

The specs on the ZL website have the head diameter of the MKIII still at 30, so the 24.4 diameter of the SC62 is still MUCH smaller. The length of the MKIII is 0.5mm less than the SC62, but A) the SC63 will be shorter and B) for me the diameter is vastly more important.


----------



## snowlover91

Is throw comparable to the MK2? Any noticeable differences?


----------



## markr6

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Re: SC62/63: Isn't the whole purpose of the SC62 having the long runtimes of 18650's with the smallest form factor? So comparing to the SC5 doesn't make sense to me. In comparing to the MKII and MKIII, for me it is all about the head diameter, which directly correlates with "chunkiness".



I'm not sure if you're referring to anything I said. I did not intend to compare to the SC5 at all, other than tint on my sample. Yes, the SC63 will be nice and small with some aesthetic changes as well.



snowlover91 said:


> Is throw comparable to the MK2? Any noticeable differences?



MKII has a smaller focused hotspot, so it _might _be throwier. I would estimate the hotspot to be about 12" wider at 15' on the MK III (sorry, that's just a rough estimate at this point)

So the MK III *HI* will be a nice option as well.


----------



## MAD777

fnj said:


> I can come up with another idea, though, which addresses the blinding issue without necessitating an extra switch. It's just a software logic mod. Click quick from off gets you max, just like now. The difference: a long press from off gets you min - no matter how long! Long press from on could work just like it does now.



The lack of being able to go from off to min, without worrying about precise timing, is what as kept me from considering a Zebralight, despite its other good qualities.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

@markr6 okay I misunderstood you then. No worries.


----------



## markr6

MAD777 said:


> The lack of being able to go from off to min, without worrying about precise timing, is what as kept me from considering a Zebralight, despite its other good qualities.



I have no problem with it even when cold, drunk, and tired. But never tried all 3 at once 

I don't see it as a timing issue since the press/hold time is very generous IMO. But maybe I should have been a drag car racer!


----------



## emarkd

No photo of that emitter down in there?! Come on man, we need it!


----------



## markr6

emarkd said:


> No photo of that emitter down in there?! Come on man, we need it!



It'll be a weak iPhone pic, but here it comes.

The iPhone gets a little pixelated/fuzzy when zooming in, but that gave me the best focus being that close.


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> I have no problem with it even when cold, drunk, and tired. But never tried all 3 at once
> 
> I don't see it as a timing issue since the press/hold time is very generous IMO. But maybe I should have been a drag car racer!


I know one thing, my timing going from off to min on a ZL (it's not even timing, it's a press/hold) has a 10000% better success rate than going backwards in the UI on a BLF A6...and playing drums and guitar for the past 20 years now, I have pretty good timing.


----------



## emarkd

Awesome, thanks for the pic! I'm pretty jealous of you guys who will be playing with your new Zebras for the holidays.


----------



## gottawearshades

Thanks for posting beamshots, Mr. 6. I was considering the CW, but the pic is pretty disappointing.


----------



## Tixx

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Re: SC62/63: Isn't the whole purpose of the SC62 having the long runtimes of 18650's with the smallest form factor? So comparing to the SC5 doesn't make sense to me. In comparing to the MKII and MKIII, for me it is all about the head diameter, which directly correlates with "chunkiness".




Yeah, same for me.


----------



## Tixx

MAD777 said:


> The lack of being able to go from off to min, without worrying about precise timing, is what as kept me from considering a Zebralight, despite its other good qualities.



Though I do not like it, you get used to it pretty darn quickly.


----------



## markr6

I decided to go with the 4500K. Basically a coin flip as they were both nice. The 5700K _was _definitely whiter, but I still prefer a little warmth when I can't decide between two.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

@markr6 Have you ever considered the SC62d?


----------



## markr6

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> @markr6 Have you ever considered the SC62d?



I had one but sold it. Nice clean coolish-neutral tint, but the SC62w was so much brighter I was able to live with a slightly lower CRI. I also preferred the bigger hotspot of the SC62w over the SC62d.

I'm not one to chase lumens and numbers, but in this case it just made sense.

BTW, I just put my SC600 III up for sale! For some reason, it's not showing up in Panjo but I see the thread here at CPF so check the for sale section.


----------



## twistedraven

That emitter doesn't look too huge. Any size comparisons of it vs the XML2?


----------



## MAD777

Well you guys are close to convincing me that the switch timing isn't such a big issue. I do like everything else about the light. 

I'm leaning toward the 5700K. I have a 6500K which is too cool, and a 4000K which is too warm. But as I'm typing this, I'm thinking that "too warm" is better than "too cool." Oh brother! Why isn't there a 5000K? Lol


----------



## texas cop

markr6 said:


> I decided to go with the 4500K. Basically a coin flip as they were both nice. The 5700K _was _definitely whiter, but I still prefer a little warmth when I can't decide between two.



While you still have both, can you do some current metering? Really curious about current draws at different levels. And you do have two to compare with. How's the mailman you didn't scare him too much when you jumped out?


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> That emitter doesn't look too huge. Any size comparisons of it vs the XML2?



The LED is right up to the edge of the footprint (is that what it's called?). XM-L2 has some room around the dome.


----------



## Kamerat

Got the SC600W Mk III 18650 XHP35 today. Love the amount of light that it produces, the variety of modes etc. However? It has already been placed in a emergency bag, as the LED produces too green light for everyday use.


----------



## Fireclaw18

Isn't an XHP35 a quad-die LED? Basically it has four XPE2 dies inside?


----------



## Lumencrazy

markr6 said:


> I decided to go with the 4500K. Basically a coin flip as they were both nice. The 5700K _was _definitely whiter, but I still prefer a little warmth when I can't decide between two.



The reds, greens and browns will also show up better with the warmer LED. When we move from wallshots and actually use the flashlight for its intended purpose the differences between the two become even more apparent.


----------



## markr6

Kamerat said:


> Got the SC600W Mk III 18650 XHP35 today. Love the amount of light that it produces, the variety of modes etc. However? It has already been placed in a emergency bag, as the LED produces too green light for everyday use.



Ahhh that's a bummer 

Still playing the tint lottery


----------



## LessDark

I thought zebralight had improved on the different tints problem, sad to see they chose a new LED with the same issue as the XML.


----------



## seasam

LessDark said:


> I thought zebralight had improved on the different tints problem, sad to see they chose a new LED with the same issue as the XML.



seems a little early to go that far


----------



## 18650

phantom23 said:


> But that's also where cheap chinese crap will fit because noname batteries are usually smaller than good ones. Many of them are unprotected. More - quality protected cells can take 5A easily. Don't try to defend Zebralight, you'll fail, there are no arguments why you shouldn't use protected cells, more - why they should force you to use unprotected cells only.


 5A maybe when the cell is fresh and voltage is high but it'd be nice to have H1 for more than the first 10 minutes of a charge.


----------



## 18650

Lumencrazy said:


> The reds, greens and browns will also show up better with the warmer LED. When we move from wallshots and actually use the flashlight for its intended purpose the differences between the two become even more apparent.


 What if our intended purposes don't include looking at dirt and flowers?


----------



## markr6

18650 said:


> What if our intended purposes don't include looking at dirt and flowers?



I think it goes well beyond that, but I believe Lumencrazy was making a reference to nature in general...the outdoors...which is a good place to use a light that can pump out over 1100lm.

They also sell a cool white and I think it had a pretty nice tint as well, so just chose whichever you like. I think the CW looks better on paper, but if you don't shine light on white paper all day, then you may want something with a little better color rendering.


----------



## LeukTech

Mine arrived today too!! Initial impressions is that the light physically looks and feels great, also pretty neat that they included a battery. 

Sadly aside from those positives, I am not liking the light. The beam has the classic "yellow ring of death" to the beam that plagued most/all of the original XM-L emitters back in the day (especially the original SC600). Basically you have a nicely tinted inside circle, then you have this nasty yellowish green ring/aurora around the hotspot. Tint consistency is non-existent. 

It's the one pet peeve that has bothered me most about certain flashlights, and this one has it pretty bad. ZL really loves whatever reflector design they are using because I think every SC600 I have seen has the same affliction (it wasn't as bad with the XM-L2 SC600 MKII's, but still there). 

Also since they aren't using springs, the battery rattles in the tube (side to side). And it does move up/down as well due to the design on the contacts they are using. 


:mecry:


Oh well, looks like this will just become a Christmas present for a family member. Which works out since I am having such a hard time figuring out what to buy. I might take another shot at the SC600 MKIII when the dedomed version makes an appearance, as maybe that will work flawlessly in ZL's reflector.


----------



## markr6

Sorry to hear that. Not off to a good start. I wrap all my "bare" 18650s with clear wrap ($1.00 for 10 sleeves) to prevent rattle, which I see in EVERY light I have. I'm surprised to hear about it moving up and down. My NCR18650GA is packed in there just right.


----------



## seasam

LeukTech said:


> Mine arrived today too!! Initial impressions is that the light physically looks and feels great, also pretty neat that they included a battery.
> 
> Sadly aside from those positives, I am not liking the light. The beam has the classic "yellow ring of death" to the beam that plagued most/all of the original XM-L emitters back in the day (especially the original SC600). Basically you have a nicely tinted inside circle, then you have this nasty yellowish green ring/aurora around the hotspot. Tint consistency is non-existent.
> 
> It's the one pet peeve that has bothered me most about certain flashlights, and this one has it pretty bad. ZL really loves whatever reflector design they are using because I think every SC600 I have seen has the same affliction (it wasn't as bad with the XM-L2 SC600 MKII's, but still there).
> 
> Also since they aren't using springs, the battery rattles in the tube (side to side). And it does move up/down as well due to the design on the contacts they are using.
> 
> 
> :mecry:
> 
> 
> Oh well, looks like this will just become a Christmas present for a family member. Which works out since I am having such a hard time figuring out what to buy. I might take another shot at the SC600 MKIII when the dedomed version makes an appearance, as maybe that will work flawlessly in ZL's reflector.



is the ring noticeable in use or are you talking about shining it on a white wall?


----------



## LeukTech

Here is a little lineup of ZL offerings to show size comparison.


----------



## carl

thanks for the line-up. I'm liking the smooth lines of the new MKIII but where are the anti-roll flats on the head? Without any landmarks to feel for, how does one find the switch in the dark?


----------



## carl

LeukTech said:


> The beam has the classic "yellow ring of death" to the beam that plagued most/all of the original XM-L emitters back in the day (especially the original SC600). Basically you have a nicely tinted inside circle, then you have this nasty yellowish green ring/aurora around the hotspot.



Sorry about your experience with your new light - a bit of a let down no doubt. Can you post a beamshot? Thanks.


----------



## LeukTech

seasam said:


> is the ring noticeable in use or are you talking about shining it on a white wall?



Noticeable on whatever I shine it on. Bugs the heck out of me, really brings back bad memories of my original SC600's horrible tint consistency. I really tried to get used to it but never could, as every time I would use it I could notice this yellowish/green aroura around the hotspot on everything I shined it on. Parts of objects would look normal/nice, then the other part of it would be tinted yellow/green, followed by the purple spill. It really is the worst combination of colors. 

I have found over the years that I am not so much a tint snob, but actually a tint _consistency_ snob. I could deal with a near purple light just fine is the beam has an even tint across the beam pattern.


----------



## LeukTech

carl said:


> Sorry about your experience with your new light - a bit of a let down no doubt. Can you post a beamshot? Thanks.



I could try, but usually never comes out as I see it. But I'll see what I can do later, about to get ready for work now.


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> They are on back order right now but i am good to wait............
> Well i guess if you like a slightly warmer neutral(looks a tad warmer from pic) the 4500k is a good option, having some cool lights (pd35vn etc) i am sure the 5700k would be fine too. If unsure go for a different tint, i am mainly neutral to cool but i also like having some different tints . Not sure what K is my warmest, maybe 4000k or even a little less with my m2.........but i like it!



Yeah no need to rush. Besides there is the HI version coming out, not to mention the sc63 as well. Patience is a virtue. 

We will then see what tint is like on those two models.


----------



## newbie66

Double post


----------



## sdr

So sad to see these posts expressing discouragement and disappointment in their new Mk III's after waiting so long to get them. I'm still waiting for mine, which should be here tomorrow or the next day, and, barring something horrible, I am not expecting to be disappointed. Each new iteration of Zebralight that I've purchased has incorporated an improvement. Whether it was a reduction in size or a better tint, there was always something that made my new ZebraLight a welcomed addition to my small but growing flashlight family. 

First and foremost, for the way I use a flashlight, the ergonomics of the side switch and the straightforward user interface on these SC600's has made them not only standout against a veritable cornucopia of flashlight options that are currently available, but, they are simply the best for their size and the punch they pack. Are any of them perfect? Probably not, at least not in the eyes of the connoisseurs in this forum. But for my purposes each one has earned a place in my flashlight rotation. And I don't suspect that the Mk III will disappoint me in that regard, either? 

I still can't wait to get mine! And, more importantly, I'm sure that I'll be focusing on the ways that Zebralight has, or attempted to, make this latest iteration of an already iconic flashlight just a little bit better...at least, in some regard.

P.S., I sure wish that this one would get here so that I can start enjoying the preorder angst of waiting for an SC63!!!


----------



## markr6

I'm always complaining about tint, but I think my mk III is pretty good, not great. The CW version was really nice too and I hope the buyer I sold it to agrees.

Edit: I'm measuring 4.20A at the tail on H1


----------



## carl

markr6 said:


> I'm measuring 4.20A at the tail on H1



So I assume its putting out the max lumens of 1100 for less than a minute before dialing down to cool down?


----------



## carl

markr6 said:


> Ahhh that's a bummer
> 
> Still playing the tint lottery



LOL!


----------



## KeepingItLight

All this talk about tint makes me wonder if ZebraLight will produce Fd (floody-daylight) versions of the SC600w Mk. III and SC63w.

The *ZebraLight H600Fd Mk. III* uses the *Cree XM-L2 EasyWhite* emitter. ZebraLight tests the CCT of each emitter before mounting it in a headlamp. According to the ZebraLight web site, typical CRI is 83-85; nominal CCT, 5000K. At *870 lumens* on H1, the price you pay in terms of reduced output for good tint and high CRI is much less than with the earlier Mk. II. By way of comparison, the current SC62w is rated at only 930 lumens on H1.

Note that the H600Fd uses a frosted lens, as do all ZebraLight "F" models.

As yet, I do not own any of the lights discussed above, so I cannot recommend them from personal experience.


----------



## LeukTech

sdr said:


> So sad to see these posts expressing discouragement and disappointment in their new Mk III's after waiting so long to get them. I'm still waiting for mine, which should be here tomorrow or the next day, and, barring something horrible, I am not expecting to be disappointed. Each new iteration of Zebralight that I've purchased has incorporated an improvement. Whether it was a reduction in size or a better tint, there was always something that made my new ZebraLight a welcomed addition to my small but growing flashlight family.
> 
> First and foremost, for the way I use a flashlight, the ergonomics of the side switch and the straightforward user interface on these SC600's has made them not only standout against a veritable cornucopia of flashlight options that are currently available, but, they are simply the best for their size and the punch they pack. Are any of them perfect? Probably not, at least not in the eyes of the connoisseurs in this forum. But for my purposes each one has earned a place in my flashlight rotation. And I don't suspect that the Mk III will disappoint me in that regard, either?
> 
> I still can't wait to get mine! And, more importantly, I'm sure that I'll be focusing on the ways that Zebralight has, or attempted to, make this latest iteration of an already iconic flashlight just a little bit better...at least, in some regard.
> 
> P.S., I sure wish that this one would get here so that I can start enjoying the preorder angst of waiting for an SC63!!!




In general the vast majority of people who would see this light wouldn't notice or care. Everything else (aside from rattle, which can be fixed by the user by wrapping the cells with some kind of material) the light is an absolute classic ZL. Flawless UI, great selection of modes, absolutely tiny package for the raw output etc. If this light had a nice consistent tint from hotspot to spill I would be raving the heck out of it. But for me though, tint consistency is an absolute deal breaker. I mean it is a flashlight after all and the light coming out of it is it's main function/purpose. But maybe that's just me, sometimes having a lot of attention for details can be a bad thing.

Just wished they had used the MT-G2 emitter instead, the tint _and _tint consistency on that emitter is almost pure perfection. Only downside is the huge emitter, which in a smaller reflector like the SC600 it might have almost been a mule. But Cree could always do a HI version which keeps the same tint but essentially makes the emitter about half the size to the reflector.


----------



## JKolmo

An MT-G2 almost mule like ZL would be really cool!!


----------



## markr6

carl said:


> So I assume its putting out the max lumens of 1100 for less than a minute before dialing down to cool down?



It seems like it's holding close, but I can't tell for sure without the proper equipment.

Here's a sloppy test I did real quick. I just stood the light on it's tail under a cabinet to bounce light and used my iPhone light meter app to measure some relative brightness. The number itself doesn't really mean anything, but gives you an idea. It doesn't show much stepping down, so I'll do a better test later on for maybe 5 minutes continuous on H1.

The first few seconds could just be the iphone app freaking out. I don't believe there's any drop right away. I would pretty much say the 90 seconds were the same output since the light meter is so sensitive it seems like just some dust floating in the air can move the numbers up or down by about 5-10; a change from 1243 to 1230 is nothing.


SecondsBrightnessON1560101243201242301240401234501235601230701230801230901230

And a nice closeup I took last night...


----------



## Mr Floppy

markr6 said:


> The first few seconds could just be the iphone app freaking out. I don't believe there's any drop right away. I would pretty much say the 90 seconds were the same output since the light meter is so sensitive it seems like just some dust floating in the air can move the numbers up or down by about 5-10;



That's the problem with smart phone apps. There is moment of auto gain that adjusts as it pleases. Good for taking pictures somehow but not good for a light test. I believe the iPhone doesn't use the actual light sensor but the ones that do, the sensor has the auto gain built in too


----------



## markr6

Mr Floppy said:


> That's the problem with smart phone apps. There is moment of auto gain that adjusts as it pleases. Good for taking pictures somehow but not good for a light test. I believe the iPhone doesn't use the actual light sensor but the ones that do, the sensor has the auto gain built in too



Yes and it's the tiny camera lens on the front. It could only do so much. But it's great for the kind of test I did above just to get a relative measurement. Sometimes your eyes just can't catch a small/quick stepdown.


----------



## sidecross

LeukTech said:


> Just wished they had used the MT-G2 emitter instead, the tint _and _tint consistency on that emitter is almost pure perfection. Only downside is the huge emitter, which in a smaller reflector like the SC600 it might have almost been a mule. But Cree could always do a HI version which keeps the same tint but essentially makes the emitter about half the size to the reflector.


From my understanding a Cree MT-G2 would need the power of two 18650 batteries or one 26650 battery to supply the needed current and capacity.


----------



## ven

sidecross said:


> From my understanding a Cree MT-G2 would need the power of two 18650 batteries or one 26650 battery to supply the needed current and capacity.




2x 18350's would work


----------



## markr6

sidecross said:


> From my understanding a Cree MT-G2 would need the power of two 18650 batteries or one 26650 battery to supply the needed current and capacity.



I suggested a 1x26650 MT-G2 model to ZL, something like the Fenix PD40. That would be PERFECT! They said "Thanks"...not quite the "sure we'll get right on that" response I hoped for


----------



## snowlover91

One good thing about this light is it appears ZL is making sure people at least can use it right away by sending it with a battery. To my knowledge they've never done that which is nice to see.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> One good thing about this light is it appears ZL is making sure people at least can use it right away by sending it with a battery. To my knowledge they've never done that which is nice to see.



I was surprised to see it when I opened both boxes. Also a little disappointed they didn't give any information. I know the majority of buyers already know what's going on with 18650s, but since they are sold online and other sellers including Amazon (not this model yet), that leaves the opportunity for "normal" people to buy them which can lead to trouble.

All I'm saying is, a small card inside or revised manual would go a long way. Or even a reference to a legitimate website about Li-Ion basics.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> I was surprised to see it when I opened both boxes. Also a little disappointed they didn't give any information. I know the majority of buyers already know what's going on with 18650s, but since they are sold online and other sellers including Amazon (not this model yet), that leaves the opportunity for "normal" people to buy them which can lead to trouble.
> 
> All I'm saying is, a small card inside or revised manual would go a long way. Or even a reference to a legitimate website about Li-Ion basics.



Definitely would be a good idea, however I'm not aware of any company who actually does this? Never received anything like that from Nitecore, olight or any other flashlighht company I've ordered from. I guess they assume it's the buyers responsibility to figure out the battery but it would be a good addition for ZL to add. I think their target market is focused on people who are pretty familiar with battery chemistries and would be knowledgeable enough to know how to use them. With the change to requiring unprotected cells it would probably be good for a small piece of info talking about proper charging and safety precautions.


----------



## holygeez03

I wonder if anyone will use the included battery and then throw it away when it's dead? Then go online to find a replacement...


----------



## markr6

That's a good point. I guess the main difference is other manufacturers, and even ZL _before _this light, marketed their own cells which always had protection circuits.

BTW, I measured 4.2A on H1 for the SC600 III. The included NCR18650BF can apparently handle 6.8A. Mine arrived with a 3.68v charge.



holygeez03 said:


> I wonder if anyone will use the included battery and then throw it away when it's dead? Then go online to find a replacement...



HA! I can see an Amazon review right now when they don't charge it first: _"Piece of junk! Don't buy! Waste of $95!! Only lasted 10 minutes. Won't stay on high mode for more than 1 second and keeps dropping to a lower mode. No markings on the battery and I can't get a replacement from the seller. My UltraFire 4000lumen Cree lasts longer than this and it only cost $5.88! Horrible!!!"_


----------



## sidecross

markr6 said:


> That's a good point. I guess the main difference is other manufacturers, and even ZL _before _this light, marketed their own cells which always had protection circuits.
> 
> BTW, I measured 4.2A on H1 for the SC600 III. The included NCR18650BF can apparently handle 6.8A. Mine arrived with a 3.68v charge.
> 
> 
> 
> HA! I can see an Amazon review right now when they don't charge it first: _"Piece of junk! Don't buy! Waste of $95!! Only lasted 10 minutes. Won't stay on high mode for more than 1 second and keeps dropping to a lower mode. No markings on the battery and I can't get a replacement from the seller. My UltraFire 4000lumen Cree lasts longer than this and it only cost $5.88! Horrible!!!"_


A problem all quality flashlight manufacturers are facing is making a product for the general public outside of the readers on this forum.

Most of us here have done the homework or research on lithium battery technology and other factors to be able to use flashlights that use the newest technologies. 

For many people in the general public a flashlight is still like the rotary phone of the 1950's and the jump to 'Smart-Phones' was not done over night.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> Cells still charging...AHHH the suspense is killing me. I'll pull them off the charger around 4.0v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZL included an *NCR18650BF *in each light!! I don't need any more 18650s, but thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SC5-ish style cap we all assumed would happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were not joking about the unprotected 65mm cell length. I tried one of my unprotected, button top 18650GA and the extra 1.5-2mm feels too tight...not going to crush it in there. Flat tops feel just right.
> 
> It feels SOOO much smaller than the SC600II. Like I always say, once you get to a certain size (typical EDC), _every _little bit helps. A lot!
> 
> The springs, at least at the head end, give a little. When I push the batter on it I would guess 1mm at best. I noticed the NCR18650GA compared to the NCR18650BF has a slightly raised top; the BF is almost recessed below the actual case. Doesn't seem to be a problem, but shows you how close the tolerance is here. Any flattop should be fine (Samsung 25R, 18650A/B, MH1, 30Q)


I think it is spectacular that they included a quality battery.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> I agree with all this.
> 
> I started off using protected cells, but soon realized I didn't feel any safer with them. I appreciate others putting safety first and that's their decision, but just not in this case. Zebralight wanted to push the limit on size, weight and performance, and this is what it took. And I have a feeling they don't care to be outside of the everyday retail-ish brands like Fenix, Olight, etc. I see them more as a specialty/enthusiast type manufacturer, but the included protection does make them safe for "normal" users who are willing to do a little research (which anyone thinking "what's an 18650" should do)
> 
> I guess people can stick with the SC600 II and use protected cells. Or live dangerously and try the SC600 III if they can't resist the upgrade.


I'll be very curious to see how with heat protection an output graph of scll vs sclll. It would be funny if actual output were the same after the first 5 minutes due to heat protection.


----------



## Craigd18

It's Christmas. The battery is red. Nothing worse than giving a gift with no battery! They avoid disappointed uninitiated gift givers. If it's holding a little charge they can turn it on. Hopefully there is a charger in the stocking.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> I'll be very curious to see how with heat protection an output graph of scll vs sclll. It would be funny if actual output were the same after the first 5 minutes due to heat protection.



I would bet they're pretty close. I don't think people should justify upgrading a MKII for the increased brightness. The smaller size, weight and "just because I want something new" is the justification for me. If they kept the same body of the MKII and just used this new emitter to get a little brighter, I would have passed on it right away.


----------



## fnsooner

Thanks everyone for the initial impressions and pics of the SC600 MK III. They are very much appreciated. I am even more psyched about purchasing the HI neutral version and imagining what the SC63w will be. I will probably preorder both when available.

None of the negative impressions will influence my future buying decisions. I am good with the battery change and I haven’t bought a cool white flashlight in four or five years. It looks like an excellent evolution to the SC600 series.


----------



## markr6

I'm really excited about the SC63 now. I have a feeling once that comes out, I'll have a Zebralight firesale...I never really use my SC52w or SC5w OP. Consolidate and keep it consistent.

But I'll have to try an SC63 first to make sure.


----------



## markr6

ZL just added *Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh 18650* to their site. $9.99 (edit: sale $7.99 right now)

A little odd since they shipped NCR18650BF with mine. No big deal; I won't use it anyway since I have too many NCG18650GAs.


----------



## KeepingItLight

markr6 said:


> ZL just added *Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh 18650* to their site. $9.99
> 
> A little odd since they shipped NCR18650BF with mine. No big deal; I won't use it anyway since I have too many NCG18650GAs.




Are your GAs flat top or button top. If the latter, hows the fit?


----------



## markr6

KeepingItLight said:


> Are your GAs flat top or button top. If the latter, hows the fit?



I have both. The flats fit perfect. I tried the button tops out of curiosity, but the last few twists felt tight so I didn't force it. This is definitely a flat top light.

NCR18650*B* flat tops fit/performed well too. I just read your comment in another thread about the B. I'm not real familiar with the technical stuff, but I'll trust you on the draw rising as the voltage drops. Saving the 18650B for other lights. Thanks.

I got a lot of 8 NCR18650GA for $16 recently so I have more than enough for all my lights. Might as well just consolidate and use them in everything.

ZL just put them on sale for $7.99 now.


----------



## scs

markr6 said:


> I'm really excited about the SC63 now. I have a feeling once that comes out, I'll have a Zebralight firesale...I never really use my SC52w or SC5w OP. Consolidate and keep it consistent.
> 
> But I'll have to try an SC63 first to make sure.



Unless you have other AA lights with just as decent runtimes, why not keep them. 
I feel better having good AA lights around the house for emergencies, in case I lose use of my 18650s for some reasons.


----------



## twistedraven

Guess I didn't win the tint lottery, or maybe there isn't much of a lottery. There seems to be a unanimous opinion that this new XHP35 is very green. This reminds me of the XML2 that was in my Nitecore. 

Anyways, light is nice-- very nice. Nice substantial feel to it while remaining pocketable. 

The light it emits has a pretty apparent tint shift from green to blue from hotspot to spill. The XPL-HI in my Armytek is very even-tinted from hotspot to spill.

Of course this is all just tint snobbery, those who don't care for that will find this very nice.

Edit: this light is very bah: bright as hell. Makes my easywhite headlamp look very dim in comparison. Of course part of that is the hotspot vs diffused effect, but it puts out a hell of a lot of lumens as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Zebralight was under-representing the lumen output.


----------



## sdr

Since my light is scheduled for delivery tomorrow, I'm really hoping that the green tint you guys are describing isn't too much like my original SC600 is. The tint on my CW Mk II L2 was a great improvement, comparatively speaking. I just hope we won't be going backwards instead of forward, tintwise? 

Can anyone make the comparison between the original SC600, the Mk II L2, and the new Mk III speaking strictly of the perceived tints of those 3 lights in cool white? By tomorrow at this time I *should* have my own Mk III in hand? But, in the moment, I'm depending on you guys and I'm hoping that no one says that it's as green as the original.


----------



## markr6

Just in case anyone missed it a few pages back:







I thought both were great tints. I had a HARD time deciding which one to keep. I guess the person I sold the 5700 version to is lucky...it was a very clean cool white with no apparent green/purple color to it.


----------



## oneinthaair

markr6 said:


> Just in case anyone missed it a few pages back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought both were great tints. I had a HARD time deciding which one to keep. I guess the person I sold the 5700 version to is lucky...it was a very clean cool white with no apparent green/purple color to it.



Can't wait to get in my grubby little hands!


----------



## Mr Floppy

markr6 said:


> I guess the person I sold the 5700 version to is lucky...it was a very clean cool white with no apparent green/purple color to it.



Knowing your history with tints, I would say they hit the jackpot.


----------



## oneinthaair

markr6 said:


> Just in case anyone missed it a few pages back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought both were great tints. I had a HARD time deciding which one to keep. I guess the person I sold the 5700 version to is lucky...it was a very clean cool white with no apparent green/purple color to it.



Can't wait to get it in my grubby little hands!


----------



## sdr

It's now 4am on Friday the 18th and the tracking on my Mk III is still showing NO movement since Monday the 14th when it supposedly left Southlake, TX. shortly after 7pm. 

I'm getting real nervous! I had hoped to get it today. But apparently it's just floating around out there in postal never-never land? :shrug::shrug:


----------



## oeL

markr6 said:


> And a nice closeup I took last night...



Really really beautiful... I think I won't be able to resist... :thumbsup:


----------



## markr6

The battery rattle which seems to be at the tail end of the MK III is really starting to annoy me. My NR18650GA cells are practically making an air tight seal, yet it rattles. I even wrapped my cells in clear shrinkwrap, which makes the nice fit, but the rattle can be head near the tail. So I wrapped a piece of paper half way around the end. When I have time I will probably use some clear tape or something a bit more refined.

Paper wrapped






Clear wrap - highly recommended! I bought mine from Illumn.


----------



## ven

Thanks for all the feedback and excellent pics, really superb mark! 

Tbh you have swayed me, dont own a ZL yet but i do have some concerns with beam quality and maybe tint.

Going to hold off a little while as i have ordered stuff too soon when it comes out to end up regretting it due to a few niggles. So will ponder whilst on back order and more than likely bite the bullet unless quite a few issues end up being reported.

ZL should give you commission..........ok ok a free light of choice at least then!


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> Just in case anyone missed it a few pages back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought both were great tints. I had a HARD time deciding which one to keep. I guess the person I sold the 5700 version to is lucky...it was a very clean cool white with no apparent green/purple color to it.


This is actually a very pleasant neutral tint to my eyes if the picture is true. Hate to hear the green reports.


----------



## markr6

ven said:


> ZL should give you commission..........ok ok a free light of choice at least then!



HAHA that would be great! My purchase before this was the SC5w OP; whitest neutral yet and better than my Nichia 219B. I hoped the tint thing was OVER for good at that point. Unfortunately that's not the case.



uofaengr said:


> This is actually a very pleasant neutral tint to my eyes if the picture is true. Hate to hear the green reports.



The picture does an OK job, but you really need to see it in person and shine the light on lots of different subjects. It's pretty good but warmer and slightly green compared to all my other Zebralights. But keep in mind I've spent a lot of effort in finding good ones...and a lot of luck as well! My MKII is so good, I'm tempted to just keep that and sell this one...then see what the SC63 brings.


----------



## jhe888

sdr said:


> It's now 4am on Friday the 18th and the tracking on my Mk III is still showing NO movement since Monday the 14th when it supposedly left Southlake, TX. shortly after 7pm.
> 
> I'm getting real nervous! I had hoped to get it today. But apparently it's just floating around out there in postal never-never land? :shrug::shrug:



If it is USPS tracking, you can't rely on it. Their tracking system is not a real time system.

Enjoy it when it arrives.


----------



## Tixx

Had to contact ZL. Seems they forgot about my order over a month ago!


----------



## snowlover91

sdr said:


> It's now 4am on Friday the 18th and the tracking on my Mk III is still showing NO movement since Monday the 14th when it supposedly left Southlake, TX. shortly after 7pm.
> 
> I'm getting real nervous! I had hoped to get it today. But apparently it's just floating around out there in postal never-never land? :shrug::shrug:



Ive had good and bad results with USPS and their shipping. I've had items arrive to me before the estimated date and also others arrive several days later or never have the tracking update until I actually received it. Their system needs a lot of work. I mailed a few packages to a friend and did several first class and one to priority mail. The priority mail I paid about double for and wasn't supposed to get there until the same day as the much cheaper first class option. Anyways hope you get your light today and looking forward to hearing more feedback. It seems the main concerns thus far are battery rattle and tint consistency. Sometimes the first batch, especially with big changes like this, has a few problems which are corrected in subsequent ones. 

Btw, it is me or do they not sell the ZL SC5w (smooth reflector) anymore? Couldn't find it on their website for sale or anywhere else.


----------



## ven

Geez guys, i feel like i am waiting with you, hoping its in the mail :laughing:


----------



## markr6

Unfortunately I haven't seen any changes between early and late version Zebralights...because there isn't any. The "batches" we speak about are pure speculation. The exception would be the recent headlights that needed a fix, I think it was the H600d/c? And that was a legitimate problem.

Either way, this MK III is legit. The only thing that will vary is the tint, same as most other manufacturers.


----------



## CM2010

Mines been shipped, should have it on Monday.


----------



## markr6

Am I the only US customer that received one? Sorry if I missed anyone. That seems strange since I ordered about 5 days after it was available.


----------



## snowlover91

I remember the "purple eye monster" that happened with early SC5 lights with smooth reflector, subsequent batches didn't have this issue. Also the SC5fd and H600d/c had driver issues with the early batch (my SC5fd was affected) which have been fixed in later batches. I decided to keep mine though instead of exchanging because the tint was perfect and my wife uses the light all the time for late night reading lol. 

Im ready for the SC63 to be announced as I'll probably have to get one of those. If it uses the same tailcap design as the MK3 and SC5 I'll be happy, that's the main change I want to see. I prefer that design over a spring and the shorter length would be a big bonus too.

Also, anyone email ZL to find out when the HI version comes out? I'm thinking throw on that one could be close to double that of the standard XHP35.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> I would bet they're pretty close. I don't think people should justify upgrading a MKII for the increased brightness. The smaller size, weight and "just because I want something new" is the justification for me. If they kept the same body of the MKII and just used this new emitter to get a little brighter, I would have passed on it right away.


I forgot about the weight difference. Size and weight are important to me. One more ounce on my belt and my pants are going to fall down.

If an XP-L HI version comes out that can really throw despite the small head I'm in despite the fact that I hate using unprotected Li Cobalt batteries. I like the old AW IMR batteries but I assume they are too long with the button top.


----------



## markr6

The excitement is already kinda of wearing off on this one for me. The tint on my MKII is just so good...I want that but can't have it  It's not that the MKIII is bad, it's just I lucked out on the MKII. You may have seen me talk about it before and assuming the AR coating adds some magenta tint (in a good way). It's like a mix between cool and warm.


----------



## Glock27

*Customer*
12/17/2015 9:34:52 AM I assume there weren't enough 600w in the first shipment to fulfill my order placed on 11/2/2015. When do you expect more?






 *Staff (Administrator)*
12/17/2015 2:38:44 PM Next shipment in about 5 days.


----------



## markr6

Selling my 600w as well :mecry:

It's hard being such a picky SOB


----------



## ven

markr6 said:


> Selling my 600w as well :mecry:
> 
> It's hard being such a picky SOB




Nothing wrong with wanting the best part of $100 light to be spot on, tint is probably the most important along with UI for me,no point in having an awesome light with artifacts or ringy beams etc etc(just other examples). Thing is, if not happy with the tint it probably wont get used, so i see where your coming from


----------



## scs

This reminds me why I quit this hobby 3 years ago. Nothing was satisfying enough. I've come back, but the scene still looks pretty much the same, except neutral tint has become a bit more common place.


----------



## Tixx

markr6 said:


> Selling my 600w as well :mecry:
> 
> It's hard being such a picky SOB



I bought it!


----------



## Tixx

markr6 said:


> Am I the only US customer that received one? Sorry if I missed anyone. That seems strange since I ordered about 5 days after it was available.



Wow! 5 days after it was available? I ordered 11/11/15 and now they told me 5-10 days before they ship.


----------



## markr6

Tixx said:


> Wow! 5 days after it was available? I ordered 11/11/15 and now they told me 5-10 days before they ship.



I have no idea how that happened! Maybe Priority Mail gets bumped up? But that doesn't seem fair since it should only have to do with time in transit, not the actual time it is shipped. Anyway, you should have it just in time for Christmas!!


----------



## ven

scs said:


> This reminds me why I quit this hobby 3 years ago. Nothing was satisfying enough. I've come back, but the scene still looks pretty much the same, except neutral tint has become a bit more common place.




IMHO vinh is pretty much your answer for getting the right led/tint/light and output. Bonus is beefed up internals and better drivers to suit........cant really go wrong


----------



## ven

Where are they shipping from for delivery in a few days?


----------



## oneinthaair

ven said:


> IMHO vinh is pretty much your answer for getting the right led/tint/light and output. Bonus is beefed up internals and better drivers to suit........cant really go wrong



Just to bad ZL's are so hard to get apart...


----------



## ven

oneinthaair said:


> Just to bad ZL's are so hard to get apart...



Apparently so


----------



## markr6

oneinthaair said:


> Just to bad ZL's are so hard to get apart...



Yeah, of course the one brand that's nearly impossible to mod is the _one _brand I must have.

A few stories of successful mods but time-consuming and costly. The triple Nichia was a good one!

p.s. After checking, I realized you have one, oneinthaair!

I sure wish I could pay ZL a little extra to hand pick a specific emitter. 3D please!!


----------



## snowlover91

Imagine if ZL used the Nichia 219b/c emitters in their lights, a 5k Nichia 219c with 83cri or a 4500k 92cri Nichia 219b would be awesome. Even the XP-L HI at 4500k is really good, I put one in an old Nitecore D20 I fixed up and it has a nice creamy white tint with much improved throw. I think the XHP35 is a good emitter they may just need some time to get more consistent tints since it's a new led type. I guess when others receive theirs we will be able to tell if the greenish reports are just isolated incidents or widespread.


----------



## CM2010

ven said:


> Where are they shipping from for delivery in a few days?



China but I opted for the quickest delivery.


----------



## markr6

There was zero green in my CW version. It was just a little cool overall for me.

The NW I just sold Tixx is nice too. I wouldn't call it green, just a little too warm for me. Without any reference it is fine. But for some reason I torture myself and compare with perfect lights. I need to stop!


----------



## scs

ven said:


> IMHO vinh is pretty much your answer for getting the right led/tint/light and output. Bonus is beefed up internals and better drivers to suit........cant really go wrong



Thanks, ven. I've emailed Vinh on many occasions. Despite his magic, even he doesn't have access to a ready supply (if that even exists off-the-shelf) of an efficient buck+boost driver for 1x18650 that's on par with Zebralight's. It's a lot to ask for, a lot to expect, hence my commensurate disappointment.


----------



## markr6

ven said:


> Where are they shipping from for delivery in a few days?



Texas for US customers. It took 2 days from TX to IN.


----------



## ven

CM2010 said:


> China but I opted for the quickest delivery.



Thanks! being impatient can be expensive :laughing:


----------



## ven

markr6 said:


> Texas for US customers. It took 2 days from TX to IN.




Thats very good


----------



## carl

markr6 said:


> I sure wish I could pay ZL a little extra to hand pick a specific emitter. 3D please!!



If we visit there TX location, can we purchase from them on-the-spot? And if so, maybe a nice salesperson at the counter will let us pick from among several samples?


----------



## ven

scs said:


> Thanks, ven. I've emailed Vinh on many occasions. Despite his magic, even he doesn't have access to a ready supply (if that even exists off-the-shelf) of an efficient buck+boost driver for 1x18650 that's on par with Zebralight's. It's a lot to ask for, a lot to expect, hence my commensurate disappointment.



Hi there, not sure what class his latest drivervnx3 is, but it may be worth checking out with many mode choices(groups) . Not saying it is similar to ZL's but may fill a gap. I have the drivervnx2 and its pretty good, 20 mode groups,easy to switch and usually pretty much a mode to suit most.......only thoughts.

What is your ideal led or tint, kind of mode spacing etc?


----------



## markr6

carl said:


> If we visit there TX location, can we purchase from them on-the-spot? And if so, maybe a nice salesperson at the counter will let us pick from among several samples?


They're just in one of those industrial parks, a small suite, so I doubt they would want people coming in. More of an office/small warehouse deal.

I visited a seller about 10 minutes from my home once to hand pick a tint on my SC52w. It's pretty amazing how they all differ like CRAZY from the same "batch". That is one reason why I'm 100% against the idea that the "next batch" will be better. There is no specific "recipe" between batches  Am I really saying all that about a flashlight? LOL

Anyway, it's very frustrating to me. To those that just want the darn light to light up, no problemo.


----------



## scs

ven said:


> Hi there, not sure what class his latest drivervnx3 is, but it may be worth checking out with many mode choices(groups) . Not saying it is similar to ZL's but may fill a gap. I have the drivervnx2 and its pretty good, 20 mode groups,easy to switch and usually pretty much a mode to suit most.......only thoughts.
> 
> What is your ideal led or tint, kind of mode spacing etc?



3D tint, as high a CRI as possible 
A turbo mode for WOW! Around 1,000 OTF.
A practical Hi mode 800 OTF.
Then 400-200-100/50-10-2.
Looking for a thrower, flooder, and combo.
But flat regulation is what I need, aside from more cowbell.

Oops, should have been a PM, so as to not go off-topic in this thread.


----------



## twistedraven

This is close to what I see in person. From left to right: Zebralight H600FD (5000k), L3 Illumination L11C (4500k), Armytek Predator XPL-HI (5500k), Zebralight SC600 MKIII (5700k)

The H600FD is probably closer to 4900k, the L11C probably closer to 4600k, the Predator is definitely 6000k plus, while the SC600MKIII seems to be about right in the high 5000k range, but it's hard to tell because of the green-purple shift, whereas the other 3 have no tint transition problems.


----------



## sdr

*The Wait Is Finally Over!*

Well, they snuck this one in the back door somehow? I had posted at 4am this morning that my light's arrival today was in question because the tracking on it showed no movement since it left Texas on Monday. Over the years I have conducted extensive postal activity pertaining to my ebay trading. Literally hundreds of items! I have observed that just about anything coming to my SoCal address will be processed at one of three USPS sort centers on the evening prior to my receiving delivery the following day. And USUALLY it will be the sort center in Santa Clarita. But somehow this little guy bypassed all of those sort centers and came straight to the local P.O. that delivers my mail. That has never happened...EVER! (with the caveat, of course, that it in fact happened with my Mk III) Once again proving that there is an exception to every rule and virtually every occurrence in life. Live and learn, eh!

But you can forget about that opening paragraph, above. Let's get into the meat of the issue. This little guy...





And here are, from left to right, some comparison shots starting with the original SC600, the SC600w Mk II L2, and the newest SC600 Mk III...





As always I incorporate my signature finger lanyard on each of these amazing little lights...





And here's a shot of just how small this light really is. It practically disappears in my very dry and wrinkled hand...





My initial impressions of this light pretty well match what Mark and others have already stated. Yes, when shaken the battery will rattle. The solution is to quit shaking it. It takes a concerted effort to make it rattle. And, yes, I can see where that might be irritating if you spend any time testing it just to see if it will do it. But when it's in my pocket or in use I don't anticipate that the "rattle when shaken" will be an issue. I guess time will tell on that? 

I was worried, based on what had been posted, that this might be a little green monster like the original was. I am happy to report that my initial testing has dispelled that fear. I am very pleased with the cool white tint on mine. Compared to the original on a white wall it almost appears to be neutral. It's very pleasing to my eye. It's also very bright! 

The tint on my CW Mk II L2 was absolutely beautiful! Sadly I suffered an extreme blond moment and left it on the seat of a city bus. No sooner did I step off of that bus and reach for my light than I realized my stupidity. All I could do was stand there weeping and wave goodbye to my prized torch. 

Forgive me, I digress. The tint on this Mk III is comparable to that of my now gone Mk II only brighter and perhaps not quite as throwy? But it's hard to make that distinction without the other light to compare to. Anyway I'm rambling. 

Bottom line: Overall I think it's another winner for Zebralight. The same UI as the Mk II - which I love! A little better, slightly grippier, knurling when compared to the Mk II but not nearly as aggressive as was the original. The Mk II was really kind of slick, IMO. Sounding a little like Goldilocks, _this one is just right._ But, as the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding. And I won't be able to truly taste that pudding until the sun goes down and I take my new little friend out for a walk-about. More will be revealed...

Yay! The wait is over and it was worth it! :thumbsup:


----------



## ven

*Re: The Wait Is Finally Over!*

Great feedback and thanks for sharing...............i like your rambling  i like your posts...........draws you in and interesting the way you write ! ..........who's rambling now

Write a book :thumbsup:

Nice pics too


----------



## light-wolff

*very picky on battery length*

I received my SC600w MK III yesterday.

Observation: standard unprotected batteries with exactly 65.0mm length give poor contact. The light flickers at the slightest movement or vibration when holding it in hand.
The emptier the battery gets, the more the light is prone to flickering.

Even NCR18650BL which have a slightly protruding positive pole (exactly like the recommended NCR18650GA) have this problem, though they work a little better.

I cleaned all contacts in the lamp and on the battery with a cotton tip and acetone: made no difference at all.

Putting some layers of tin foil on the negative battery pole increases contact pressure and totally solves the problem, but of course this can't be the final solution.

I have now ordered NCR18650GA for testing, but I don't expect these to work better, as they have the same length as NCR18650BL.

I've been a ZL follower since the H50, but now for the first time I am disappointed with a ZL product. This type of battery contact was a very poor design decision, IMHO. Rather I'd have a light with 2mm more length than one which is THAT picky on battery size.
I already regret having sold my SC600w MK II recently in expectance of its successor. Luckily, I still have the SC62w.

I contacted ZL about this. I still hope it's only my example having this problem and I can get a replacement that works properly.


----------



## sdr

*Re: The Wait Is Finally Over!*



ven said:


> Great feedback and thanks for sharing...............i like your rambling  i like your posts...........draws you in and interesting the way you write ! ..........who's rambling now
> 
> Write a book :thumbsup:
> 
> Nice pics too



Thank you! What a nice comment. In this day and age it is unexpected to receive such a compliment. Usually people only seem to point out the fly in the ointment and never mention the sweet balm that the fly is swimming in. So, thank you, indeed, for your kind words!

Cheers, my friend!


----------



## sdr

*Re: very picky on battery length*



light-wolff said:


> I received my SC600w MK III yesterday.
> 
> Observation: standard unprotected batteries with exactly 65.0mm length give poor contact. The light flickers at the slightest movement or vibration when holding it in hand.
> The emptier the battery gets, the more the light is prone to flickering.



Hmm? Sorry to hear that you're experiencing this difficulty. I'm using an NCR18650GA - not the one that came with the light but rather one that was purchased in advance - and I'm not experiencing this problem. Or, at least, I haven't yet. 

Note: Out of curiosity I just tried an NCR18650B and attempted to induce the flickering that you've described. I'm happy to report that my light held steady and did not flicker. I cannot comment on the possibility of this happening with a depleted charge. But in light of what I have experienced thus far it seems unlikely. Hopefully the NCR18650GA will remedy this problem for you? Good luck - Keep us posted!


----------



## ven

*Re: The Wait Is Finally Over!*

Welcome sdr and i mean every word, some members just have a way with words, almost like poetry with what they type and draws one in!! You are most certainly one of those


----------



## ven

I am real confused with this light, i really want my 1st ZL but its 50/50 right now. Agree on the extra couple of mm to be less fuel fussy though! 

That in itself is no real big deal personally as i am a fan of IMR/INR cells which of course shorter in length. Still its not ideal.............


----------



## seasam

YES! Finally got mine. Initial impressions positive for the sc600w, but the Mk3 is the first sc600 I've handled. Tint has the rosy tinge like my sc5, which is fine by me. I do notice the medium mode and low mode looking kind of green. Not a deal breaker for me since I am most interested in the high for this light.

The light itself is small and fits in the hand well. I look forward to using it some more.


----------



## LeukTech

markr6 said:


> Am I the only US customer that received one? Sorry if I missed anyone. That seems strange since I ordered about 5 days after it was available.



Central Coast CA, got it Wednesday and it was shipped out Monday. Just happened to be on of those freak USPS deliveries that went insanely fast. Although the light is already shipped back out and on its way to my brother as a Christmas gift, I know he will absolutely love it. :twothumbs

One thing that really peaks my interest though is why on earth did ZL go with 65mm cells only with no spring contacts? You posted a few pages back that H1 only draws 4.2A, which can effortlessly be obtained by any decent quality cell with a capacity of 2500mAh or greater. Heck, all my 3400mAh AW 18650's can safely go to 6.8A. 

So why did ZL remove all possibility of protected cells and also use low-tension contact points that cause battery rattle? (despite there being DIY fixes, I've yet to have a properly sized battery rattle in flashlight as bad as the MKIII, and I own a LOT of flashlights.) I can understand the need for unprotected high-drain cells if the amperage draw was 10A or more, but limiting the flashlights battery options _*significantly*_ (which is a huge inconvenience to many people) and also introducing annoying battery rattle, or flickering due to poor contact, just to accommodate a measly 4.2A on turbo? 

What's even worse is if the decision to go with 65mm only batteries was just to save a meager 3-4mm in length, which would be incredibly insulting to the flashlight community, and even worse for ZL's reputation that they would take such drastic measures in order to cut an unnoticeable 3-4mm off the length.


----------



## ven

scs said:


> 3D tint, as high a CRI as possible
> A turbo mode for WOW! Around 1,000 OTF.
> A practical Hi mode 800 OTF.
> Then 400-200-100/50-10-2.
> Looking for a thrower, flooder, and combo.
> But flat regulation is what I need, aside from more cowbell.
> 
> Oops, should have been a PM, so as to not go off-topic in this thread.



PM inbound


----------



## markr6

ven said:


> I am real confused with this light, i really want my 1st ZL but its 50/50 right now. Agree on the extra couple of mm to be less fuel fussy though!
> 
> That in itself is no real big deal personally as i am a fan of IMR/INR cells which of course shorter in length. Still its not ideal.............



I would suggest waiting to see what the MKIII HI and the SC63 look like. That would give you 3 nice options to choose from.


----------



## Lumencrazy

LeukTech said:


> Central Coast CA, got it Wednesday and it was shipped out Monday. Just happened to be on of those freak USPS deliveries that went insanely fast. Although the light is already shipped back out and on its way to my brother as a Christmas gift, I know he will absolutely love it. :twothumbs
> 
> One thing that really peaks my interest though is why on earth did ZL go with 65mm cells only with no spring contacts? You posted a few pages back that H1 only draws 4.2A, which can effortlessly be obtained by any decent quality cell with a capacity of 2500mAh or greater. Heck, all my 3400mAh AW 18650's can safely go to 6.8A.
> 
> So why did ZL remove all possibility of protected cells and also use low-tension contact points that cause battery rattle? (despite there being DIY fixes, I've yet to have a properly sized battery rattle in flashlight as bad as the MKIII, and I own a LOT of flashlights.) I can understand the need for unprotected high-drain cells if the amperage draw was 10A or more, but limiting the flashlights battery options _*significantly*_ (which is a huge inconvenience to many people) and also introducing annoying battery rattle, or flickering due to poor contact, just to accommodate a measly 4.2A on turbo?
> 
> What's even worse is if the decision to go with 65mm only batteries was just to save a meager 3-4mm in length, which would be incredibly insulting to the flashlight community, and even worse for ZL's reputation that they would take such drastic measures in order to cut an unnoticeable 3-4mm off the length.



Flickering is completely unacceptable. I can buy a $5 light at the local hardware store that does not flicker. Looks like they may have miscalculated the length tolerances of their new contact design. Maybe that is why they were supplying the 18650BF battery with the light (it fits best). With regards to unprotected batteries. They are my preference (emphasis on mine) since all of my flashlights have protection circuits as part of the driver (Armytek and Zebralight). So I see no need for running two similar circuits in series (one more curcuit also increases the probability of something going wrong). Furthermore, protection circuits discharge continuously even when the battery is not being used. I have stored my unprotected 18650B, BF an BL batteries at 3.2-3.6 volts for 6 months in a refrigerator, at cold temperatures, with no measurable voltage drop.


----------



## markr6

LeukTech said:


> Central Coast CA, got it Wednesday and it was shipped out Monday. Just happened to be on of those freak USPS deliveries that went insanely fast. Although the light is already shipped back out and on its way to my brother as a Christmas gift, I know he will absolutely love it. :twothumbs
> 
> One thing that really peaks my interest though is why on earth did ZL go with 65mm cells only with no spring contacts? You posted a few pages back that H1 only draws 4.2A, which can effortlessly be obtained by any decent quality cell with a capacity of 2500mAh or greater. Heck, all my 3400mAh AW 18650's can safely go to 6.8A.
> 
> So why did ZL remove all possibility of protected cells and also use low-tension contact points that cause battery rattle? (despite there being DIY fixes, I've yet to have a properly sized battery rattle in flashlight as bad as the MKIII, and I own a LOT of flashlights.) I can understand the need for unprotected high-drain cells if the amperage draw was 10A or more, but limiting the flashlights battery options _*significantly*_ (which is a huge inconvenience to many people) and also introducing annoying battery rattle, or flickering due to poor contact, just to accommodate a measly 4.2A on turbo?
> 
> What's even worse is if the decision to go with 65mm only batteries was just to save a meager 3-4mm in length, which would be incredibly insulting to the flashlight community, and even worse for ZL's reputation that they would take such drastic measures in order to cut an unnoticeable 3-4mm off the length.



After using it a bit I started to wish they kept the normal springs to accommodate flat and button top-unprotected cells...but I'm OK without protected. Even flat tops vary a bit with their recessed/protruding plates on top. Plus the springs don't cause a rattle. Just some little things I noticed when paying more attention to my MKII after comparing them.

Looking forward to seeing the SC63. Hopefully that's a winner for me.


----------



## ven

ZL share holders are relying on your reports mark

Your my guinea pig On a serious note i do feel disappointed for you , 2 ZL's and not happy...........

Once i hear your feedback on the sc63, i will make a decision then.........no rush for me tbh as just splashed out on another host and cryos bezel! Not what i need before xmas!


----------



## sidecross

ven said:


> ZL share holders are relying on your reports mark
> 
> Your my guinea pig On a serious note i do feel disappointed for you , 2 ZL's and not happy...........
> 
> Once i hear your feedback on the sc63, i will make a decision then.........no rush for me tbh as just splashed out on another host and cryos bezel! Not what i need before xmas!


Mark6 is a reason I bought my first two Zebralights which were CR123A lights, H302W and SC32, and then bought a H600Fd Mklll.

After reading all the information on this thread I decided to order a SC600 Mkll. The main concern was a lack of spring travel. I would have rather had the Mklll because of its ability to handle 2 CR123a under restricted amps or power, but the length of two CR123a batteries would be a difficult fit even for emergency use.

While the Mkll has a limit of 4.2 volts it is not a great problem because of the many other lights I have.


----------



## markr6

ven said:


> ZL share holders are relying on your reports mark
> 
> Your my guinea pig On a serious note i do feel disappointed for you , 2 ZL's and not happy...........
> 
> Once i hear your feedback on the sc63, i will make a decision then.........no rush for me tbh as just splashed out on another host and cryos bezel! Not what i need before xmas!



Ven, I definitely wouldn't say "not happy"...maybe just "underwhelmed"? I'm not sure how to put it. Looking back, I would probably keep the CW version. They were good lights but just barely missed the mark on the few things I mentioned. I'm sure the buyers I sold to will be 100% happy with them.

The BIGGEST thing that tipped the scale was my MKII. I'm always praising it and for good reason. I feel like it will NEVER be beat. The emitter in that must be a fluke with it's very nice coolish-magenta neutral tint. Very odd, but in a good way. It's hard to describe. When comparing it to the MKIII, I just didn't feel like that was any kind of upgrade at all.



sidecross said:


> While the Mkll has a limit of 4.2 volts it is not a great problem because of the many other lights I have.



Yea if I was looking into CR123 lights, especially for emergency use, my Zebralights would be the last ones I would rely on (if they did take CR123). SORRY ZL!! I haven't had any problems with mine, but I just don't feel 100% safe counting on them for emergencies or backup.


----------



## emarkd

markr6 said:


> for emergency use, my Zebralights would be the last ones I would rely on (if they did take CR123). SORRY ZL!! I haven't had any problems with mine, but I just don't feel 100% safe counting on them for emergencies or backup.



Really? What would you rely on then? Maybe you've just got better lights in your collection than me but I feel like my Zebras are some of my best lights. They're rock solid and have taken some hard use from me while never missing a step.


----------



## sidecross

emarkd said:


> Really? What would you rely on then? Maybe you've just got better lights in your collection than me but I feel like my Zebras are some of my best lights. They're rock solid and have taken some hard use from me while never missing a step.


I think the point of an emergency is not having access to a/c power and the inability to recharge 18650 batteries.

I think my Zebralights are excellent, but in a prolonged emergency without 18650 batteries a Zebralight no matter how tough is of no help.


----------



## markr6

emarkd said:


> Really? What would you rely on then? Maybe you've just got better lights in your collection than me but I feel like my Zebras are some of my best lights. They're rock solid and have taken some hard use from me while never missing a step.



Anything without an electronic switch for starters. Something that takes CR123 even though I really don't like them for regular use. Simple = safe. I still love my zebralights though.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> Anything without an electronic switch for starters. Something that takes CR123 even though I really don't like them for regular use. Simple = safe. I still love my zebralights though.



The SC32 is an excellent light though. My dad has it as his EDC light on his keychain. It gets beat around at the warehouses he works at and when he turns it on the lower high level the people with him are always impressed. Then to really impress them he double clicks to turbo and they all say something like "wow what kind of light is that?" Me personally a well made electronic switch I prefer over physical clicky and I remember doing some research on here which suggested that well made electronic switches are more durable and last more on/off cycles than a physical switch does. I'd take any ZL in a heartbeat for emergencies. My SC5fd is my most used light for around the house tasks and would work great for that. The SC32 or SC5 variants would make excellent emergency lights.


----------



## sidecross

markr6 said:


> Anything without an electronic switch for starters. Something that takes CR123 even though I really don't like them for regular use. Simple = safe. I still love my zebralights though.


I agree with this statement, :thumbsup:


----------



## sidecross

snowlover91 said:


> The SC32 is an excellent light though. My dad has it as his EDC light on his keychain. It gets beat around at the warehouses he works at and when he turns it on the lower high level the people with him are always impressed. Then to really impress them he double clicks to turbo and they all say something like "wow what kind of light is that?" Me personally a well made electronic switch I prefer over physical clicky and I remember doing some research on here which suggested that well made electronic switches are more durable and last more on/off cycles than a physical switch does. I'd take any ZL in a heartbeat for emergencies. My SC5fd is my most used light for around the house tasks and would work great for that. The SC32 or SC5 variants would make excellent emergency lights.


I define an emergency where normal utilities such as gas and electric are non existent for a week to 10 days.


----------



## sidecross

Back on topic so I can read more about the new Zebralight!


----------



## snowlover91

sidecross said:


> I define an emergency where normal utilities such as gas and electric are non existent for a week to 10 days.



In which case the SC32 or SC5 variants would work well if you have a good stock of AA or cr123  Also electronic switches are typically more durable if they're well made vs physical clicky. I've got enough lights though that would never be a problem lol. 

Anyone else have an Mk3 on the way? Someone needs to email ZL to find out when the HI version goes out for preorder.


----------



## Humantorch

Mine arrived by courier today, 3 days later than it should have.
You Americans are very lucky to have received batteries with yours, mine just came with 2 o-rings and a belt clip and a poorly printed manual.

Mine is warm tint, and it's beam is considerably more "rosy" in colour than either my SC5 and SC600 II in Hi mode, and distinctly yellow-green in the lower modes.
It's not noticeably brighter than the MK II light, but it did get much hotter much quicker than the MKII, too hot to hold within about 2 minutes (it's a hot summer here now).

IMO the MKIII is a backward step.

Disappointed, underwhelmed are 2 words that fit well.

Just my 2c worth.


----------



## oneinthaair

I got a CW coming in Monday! I'll let you guys know how she feels!


----------



## Mr Floppy

Humantorch said:


> Mine arrived by courier today, 3 days later than it should have.
> You Americans are very lucky to have received batteries with yours,



Suspected that they wouldn't ship 18650s to Australia. Don't know about Europe either


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

I don't know about you all, but I use H2.3 as my default, only double clicking the high beams to turbo for moments at a time. These lights are not designed IMO for continuous running on 1000+ lm.


----------



## snowlover91

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> I don't know about you all, but I use H2.3 as my default, only double clicking the high beams to turbo for moments at a time. These lights are not designed IMO for continuous running on 1000+ lm.



I never use the turbo for very long but wouldn't hesitate to if needed. Although they get hot the temp is regulated to keep things at a safe level and will step down/up as needed. They could run at the turbo until the battery is drained and be just fine. The main thing is a persons tolerance to the heat produced as the heatsink does its job. Some people handle the warmer temps better than others. I recall a thread where the temp was measured around 135F and one person could handle it fine while someone else performed the same test and could only tolerate 125.


----------



## Humantorch

snowlover91 said:


> I never use the turbo for very long but wouldn't hesitate to if needed. Although they get hot the temp is regulated to keep things at a safe level and will step down/up as needed. They could run at the turbo until the battery is drained and be just fine. The main thing is a persons tolerance to the heat produced as the heatsink does its job. Some people handle the warmer temps better than others. I recall a thread where the temp was measured around 135F and one person could handle it fine while someone else performed the same test and could only tolerate 125.



My SC600 III head surface temp. (the surface you hold) hit 60C within 45 seconds (thats 140F) and was still rising. My laser temp probe revealed the LED surface temp was 112C (thats 233F) at about that time (it had stabilised).

I decided to end the test at this time.


----------



## carl

Humantorch said:


> My laser temp probe revealed the LED surface temp was 112C (thats 233F) at about that time (it had stabilised).



Isn't that too high to keep the LED protected from damage? I thought the PID would have backed off on the power and lowered the output and temp well below such a hot number like 233F.


----------



## sdr

*Try It, You Might Like It...*

I've had a couple of nights to enjoy my new Mk III, now. And, after reading some of the recent posts, I'm starting to feel a little like a rebel - an outsider. I actually like my new ZebraLight! I guess I'm just a _glass half full_ kind of guy? I don't know, I just can't seem to find anything worthy of my dissatisfaction. It's a flashlight. It works! And, at least in the case of my particular flashlight, it works very well illuminating a huge area with an abundance of bright, beautiful light that is pleasing to my eyes. But I don't think that darkness likes my light because everytime I turn it on the darkness disappears?

This is the 4th SC600 that I have purchased from ZebraLight. And I've carried one daily, on my person, since November of 2011. So I feel somewhat qualified to say that I have watched and even participated in the evolution of this amazing little pocket light cannon. It saddens me to see that so many of the initial recipients of the new Mk III are expressing disappointment with the lights they received. Feeling "underwhelmed" or less than enthusiastic about their light's performance. Poor tint. Rattle. Battery restrictions. Flickering. Not bright as expected. Etc...Sheesh!

I must have just gotten lucky and received the only decent Mk III that was produced? Like I mentioned a couple of days ago, yeah, my light will rattle a little if I shake it vigorously in an effort to make it rattle. Meh! Not a big deal. Certainly not a deal breaker for me. The tint on my light is just about what I would expect it to be for a 5700K cool white tint. But, I must confess, this is my first experience with a Cree XHP35 emitter. So I really had no prior expectations. File that under _"Ignorance is bliss,"_ I 'spose? 

Call me lucky again because my Mk III produces an absolute wall of cool white light. I mean, a wall of light that crushed my original SC600 and my neutral(w) Mk II L2 in the comparison tests I did last night in a local park, aiming each light at the stage of a small outdoor amphitheater from a distance of approximately 50 yards. It really was no contest between the alleged 1300 lumens of the Mk III and the claimed 1020lm of the neutral Mk II L2. Admittedly the tint differences between the CW Mk III and the neutral Mk II were like night and day. The rosy warmth of the Mk II was simply no match for the cool white brightness of the Mk III. Don't get me wrong. The neutral tint of XM-L2 is stunning. But the cool white XHP35 emitter on my Mk III illuminated a much wider area and reached significantly further into the night. 'Nuff said 'bout dat!

The thing that really works for me in a big way about this new light is its reduced size and how its previously abrupt, angular, countenance has been smoothed and rounded. The Mk III is THE MOST comfortable SC600 to date, IMO. I absolutely love the way it feels with my signature pinkie lanyard cinched up around the little finger, resting snugly in the palm of my hand, thumb on the ergonomically perfect side switch ready for action! Granted, the changes that were made on the chassis of this iconic little Zebra are subtle and nuanced. But they are easily discernible and greatly appreciated to the hand of someone who has lovingly cradled and caressed each new iteration of this amazing little light. 

Another immediately noticeable feature to my touch is shallower depth of the activation switch. It's not set as deep as it was on previous models. Nor are the angled edges surrounding the switch nearly as pronounced (sharp, for lack of a more descriptive word). Rounded and smoothed are the operative words! Ya gotta love it, right?

Spoiler Alert! As you may have already guessed (and I have already stated)? Drumroll, please.....

I really do like this light! Maybe I just hit the Flashlight Lottery with the one I got? I really can't explain it. But, I'm a happy camper and I sincerely hope that others will give the Mk III a try. They might become as enchanted with the SC600 as I am? Who knows? Stranger things have happen, yo!


----------



## ven

*Re: Try It, You Might Like It...*

Great feedback and thanks for sharing, i seem to have gone from 50/50 to 80/20 for! :laughing: Not like its a life changing decision, will just go for it in the new year unless they spontaneously combust or transform into an ultrafire over night........


----------



## markr6

*Re: Try It, You Might Like It...*



sdr said:


> I really do like this light! Maybe I just hit the Flashlight Lottery with the one I got?



I don't think there's so much of a lottery on the cool white based on my experience. I could be wrong though. The CW I had was perfect and shouldn't have sold it so quickly! But in general I'm not a CW kind of person so that pushed me to keep the NW.


----------



## sidecross

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> I don't know about you all, but I use H2.3 as my default, only double clicking the high beams to turbo for moments at a time. These lights are not designed IMO for continuous running on 1000+ lm.


This is how I set up my three and soon to be four Zebralights too. If I need more output, I will choose a more powerful flashlight. This is the same way I utilize all my flashlights.


----------



## texas cop

*Re: Try It, You Might Like It...*



sdr said:


> Call me lucky again because my Mk III produces an absolute wall of cool white light. I mean, a wall of light that crushed my original SC600 and my neutral(w) Mk II L2 in the comparison tests I did last night in a local park, aiming each light at the stage of a small outdoor amphitheater from a distance of approximately 50 yards. It really was no contest between the alleged 1300 lumens of the Mk III and the claimed 1020lm of the neutral Mk II L2. Admittedly the tint differences between the CW Mk III and the neutral Mk II were like night and day. The rosy warmth of the Mk II was simply no match for the cool white brightness of the Mk III. Don't get me wrong. The neutral tint of XM-L2 is stunning. But the cool white XHP35 emitter on my Mk III illuminated a much wider area and reached significantly further into the night. 'Nuff said 'bout dat!
> ​


​
For myself this is what I really look for in a flashlight. My lights tend to be work lights or what I call practical lights "fits in pocket, always works, lights up what I need illuminated". 5700k is my compromise color, I do love beautiful creamy reds if I can see what needs seeing. I sacrifice color over performance. Your observations are much appreciated. This light is now on my to get list.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

I can't get myself to like neutral white or hi CRI at all. They all seem too yellow to me. But of course it is all in my head, because a "regular" light in the house is also neutral, which bothers me only for 2 seconds (right after using a CW torch), then I forget about it.


----------



## recDNA

Humantorch said:


> My SC600 III head surface temp. (the surface you hold) hit 60C within 45 seconds (thats 140F) and was still rising. My laser temp probe revealed the LED surface temp was 112C (thats 233F) at about that time (it had stabilised).
> 
> I decided to end the test at this time.


I was afraid this would happen based on so many amps in such a small light. It does sound like PID should be much more aggressively lowering output though. I wonder how hot that unprotected battery got near the head? Heck, at that temperature I would like the light to shut itself off!


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I was afraid this would happen based on so many amps in such a small light. It does sound like PID should be much more aggressively lowering output though. I wonder how hot that unprotected battery got near the head? Heck, at that temperature I would like the light to shut itself off!



Selfbuilts tests showed the temp leveling off within the first 45-60 seconds so that's likely about as warm as it gets. The 4.5 amps being pulled on turbo isn't that bad and heatsinking is good on these lights. Shouldn't be any issues as they designed this light very well and in accordance with cree's recommendations to maximize heatsinking ability. Also the LED is rated for 140C before any LED degradation occurs so it's well within safe limits at only 112C.


----------



## sdr

snowlover91 said:


> Selfbuilts tests showed the temp leveling off within the first 45-60 seconds so that's likely about as warm as it gets. The 4.5 amps being pulled on turbo isn't that bad and heatsinking is good on these lights. Shouldn't be any issues as they designed this light very well and in accordance with cree's recommendations to maximize heatsinking ability. Also the LED is rated for 140C before any LED degradation occurs so it's well within safe limits at only 112C.



Just out of curiosity I decided to conduct a very unscientific heatsink comparison of the Mk II with its XM-L2 neutral emitter and the new Mk III with its XHP35 cool white emitter and new vented/finned head configuration. Like I said, this is unscientific. But here is what I just experienced that seems to bear out the worth of the re-styled head config. on the Mk III pertaining to the dissipation heat. 

Holding the Mk II loosely in my right hand with thumb on the side switch and index finger curled under and around the head. And the same handhold being applied to the Mk III with my right hand. I activated both lights simultaneously, maintaining the described hold for precisely 3 minutes. At the end of that 3 minutes the Mk II was extremely hot! Much hotter, in fact, than the Mk III. Neither light had stepped down at that point. But I was satisfied that the smaller bodied Mk III with its XHP35 emitter had done a better job of dissipating the heat than did that of the older styled Mk II with its neutral XM-L2 emitter. I am also satisfied that I would not have been able to maintain the loose grip I had on the Mk II any longer without experiencing extreme discomfort to my index finger. While, at the same time, it felt like I would have been able to hold the Mk III significantly longer.

My conclusion is that the new Mk III does a better job of dissipating heat than does its predecessor, the Mk II based upon my informal, very unscientific, testing and experience. As always, your mileage may vary?


**Edit to add that I have never run any of my ZebraLights on H1 for more than one minute in normal use. High mode is used in short bursts only. So in my opinion either of these lights perform superbly.


----------



## Fireclaw18

I like the look of the new SC600 Mark III. It's impressive that they were able to get it even shorter than the earlier Mark II.

That said, I think I'll hold off and wait for the SC63w. Hopefully, it will have a knurled body and look similar to the SC5.


----------



## psychbeat

I have run my h600w MKII on max till low batts multiple times a week for more than a year using raw PFs & BDs with no issues. 
The PID works folks. 

Also, I do similar runs with direct drive lights I have with no issues either in the past 3 years.


----------



## Swede74

Inspired by sdr's curiosity, and, fairly certain that succumbing to my own would not result in the demise of any unsuspecting felines, I decided to conduct the same test.

Well, I'm probably exaggerating when I say I did the same test – since I'm neither a happy, nor an disappointed, owner of the Mk III, I obviously did not perform a comparison. 

I did, however, hold my SC600w II L2 with my thumb on the switch and index finger curled around the head, for three minutes. The light was in H1 (1020 Lm , PID). In the interest of full disclosure: the test lasted approximately rather than precisely three minutes. 

Interestingly, similar circumstances produced a very different result. After three minutes, the SC600 MkII L2 was warm, but not even close to uncomfortably hot to the touch. Provided that the light had reached its maximum temperature (with my circulatory system helping with heat dissipation, and if that system had failed, for whatever reason, I would have had a much bigger problem than burnt skin to worry about) I believe I could have continued to hold it in my hand indefinitely, or for the duration of the battery. 

As far as I know, I'm about as sensitive to pain as anybody else, so my cautious conclusion has to be that my SC600w Mk II L2 did not get as hot as sdr's. Could it be that the battery, an AW 2900 mAh from 2011, is getting on in years and preventing me from enjoying my SC600w to the fullest? Blisters and all.


----------



## snowlover91

Interesting results on these tests! An important aspect to consider in these tests is this: what were the conditions the light was exposed to? Were the tests done indoors or outdoors? What was the temperature outside/inside where the test was done? Was there any type of air circulation? All these factors will determine how hot the light may get. A light tested outside where it's cooler than 70F and/or with any air circulation (breeze or fan) will probably stay cool throughout. However one tested in a warmer climate (above 80F) with stagnant air circulation would quickly heat up. 

From the tests conducted it sounds like Swede74 may live in a cooler climate or have some type of air circulation (or could be an aging battery also) whereas sdr's test tells me it was done in a warmer area with little to no air circulation. I linked it in another thread but cree's data sheet about their emitters is very helpful. They mention that anodized aluminum increases the heat sinking of the aluminum and fins will help to radiate the heat away more effectively. Here is the document in referring to for the XHP35, page 11-12 summarizes the heat sink recommendations. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...-Application-Notes/XLampThermalManagement.pdf


----------



## snowlover91

I emailed ZL about how soon we can expect the MK3 HI version for preorder and also the SC63. Will let everyone know if/when they respond.


----------



## twistedraven

It's too bad the tint on my MK3 sucks, because the form factor is quite amazing. Maybe if someone on here has one with super tint I'll take it off their hands.


----------



## snowlover91

twistedraven said:


> It's too bad the tint on my MK3 sucks, because the form factor is quite amazing. Maybe if someone on here has one with super tint I'll take it off their hands.



Maybe try to return/exchange it? Do they let you do that for tint issues?


----------



## sdr

Swede,

Your results had me wondering about the validity of my own informal testing. Thinking that perhaps I might experience a different result if I switched hands, this time with the Mk III in my left hand and the Mk II in the right. Again holding each in the same manner. Thumb on the switch and index finger curled under and around the head of each light. A position similar to what I would incorporate when actually using the light for the purpose it is intended - To obliterate darkness!

Once again, using a wall clock for a timer, I held each light for 3 minutes. For the duration of each test I maintained contact and pressure as equally as I could for both lights. And, again, I experienced roughly the same result. The Mk II was considerably warmer than the Mk III. Especially to the area of my index finger that was in contact with the head of the Mk II. 

Now, I doubt that my skin would have begun to blister, or ignite and burst into flames, had I not discontinued the test at the 3 minute mark. That's not what I'm saying. What my tests revealed to me was that the heat sink of the Mk III, with its redesigned (vented/finned) head area, seemed to result in a significantly cooler feeling to my index finger. And, in each instance, the result and conclusion remained consistent. I experienced the same feeling with each light regardless of which hand that light was being held in.

Again, these tests were informal and not scientific. There were no controls. Each test was conducted while I was sitting indoors at my desk with a ceiling fan slowly rotating in relatively close proximity to where I was seated. The ambient temperature of the room was 77 degrees fahrenheit as indicated by the digital thermometer that is inside of the atomic clock that sits on the wall above my desk.

This is not a rebuttal, nor is it a dispute of Swede's findings. Quite the contrary. It was merely a case of my curiosity, once again, and a need to find my own truth. Nothing more. I am simply sharing what I have experienced. As always, your results may vary.

@snowlover91 ~ Thank you for the link to Cree's Thermal Management documentation. Lots of good stuff for my mental digestive tract to absorb. Thanks!

By the way. As a footnote to all. I've had another evening in which to thoroughly enjoy using this wonderful new Mk III. And, I am very pleased to say that the more I use it the more I am falling in love with it. It is truly a very bright little light that casts a very large footprint of light over an impressive area and distance. It is a pocketable powerhouse that produces a prodigious result! What more can I say?


----------



## sdr

twistedraven said:


> This is close to what I see in person. From left to right: Zebralight H600FD (5000k), L3 Illumination L11C (4500k), Armytek Predator XPL-HI (5500k), Zebralight SC600 MKIII (5700k)
> 
> The H600FD is probably closer to 4900k, the L11C probably closer to 4600k, the Predator is definitely 6000k plus, while the SC600MKIII seems to be about right in the high 5000k range, but it's hard to tell because of the green-purple shift, whereas the other 3 have no tint transition problems.








TwistedRaven ~ Your tint problem roused my curiosity to where I felt compelled to *try* my hand at some tint shots that you might find useful as comparisons? I have indicated the flashlight and it's emitter, but not the Kelvin values for each as you did. I apologize. Hopefully my oversight, wink, will stimulate a sufficient curiosity in any interested person to prompt a remedial action? I should also hasten to add that any distortion in beam profile is more than likely due to my positioning of the set-up and not the fault of the light or its' reflector - i.e. operator error! I also need to mention that the wall, who was gracious enough to pose for my tint pictorial, is not a white-white, but rather a muted shade of eggshell white. 

Of particular note is the radical difference between the beam profile on the two ArmyTek Predators, yours and mine! Yours being an XPL-HI and mine being an XP-G2 ~ Both emitters are claimed to be 5500K (?) But when I still had my v3 LE PP (before I sent it back) I lit it up next to my v2.5 and, Wowsa! That XP-L HI was the whitest white my eyes had ever seen! It seem much-much cooler than the v2.5 that I used in this tint comp. pic. I really liked the tint on that LE PP XP-L HI. Sadly, that was about the only thing I liked about that version.

Anyway, I'm not sure what, if anything, can be gleaned from comparing these two photographs? But it gave me a chance to attempt such a feat - Taking a tint comparison photograph, that is. I'm still trying to get my vision back, so I doubt that I'll be inclined to do that again anytime soon? lol I may have incurred permanent retina damage from snapping this one!


----------



## Swede74

As you may deduce from the lack of pigmentation on my hand, I do live in a climate cool enough to warrant wearing gloves outdoors at this time of year. We are experiencing an unusually warm December though, with daytime temperatures exceeding 10°C in the southern part. More pertinent to the test is the temperature in my apartment, where the test was conducted. It is 22°C, according to a cooking thermometer. All I can say about the accuracy of that thermometer is that it displays 100°C when in direct contact with boiling water. 

I repeated the test, and variations of it, a few times yesterday. I set the countdown timer on my Casio wrist watch to three minutes and held the light using the same grip, one time with the bezel pointing towards the floor at a 45 degree angle, and one time perpendicular to the floor, pointing towards the ceiling. I could be wrong, and perhaps basic physics say I am, but the light seemed to become slightly warmer when aimed at the ceiling. It was a subtle difference that I'm not sure I would be able to detect again if I were to repeat the test. 

What I do know for sure is that my SC600w Mk II L2 does not get too hot to handle comfortably after three minutes. In a third test I ran the light for six minutes. Its temperature continued to increase well after three minutes. I never had to force myself not to put it down or switch hands, but by ~4:30 the experience started to become more of a chore than a treat. One thing I should mention is that three of my fingers and part of my palm were in contact with the body of light for the duration of the test. For clarity I have included a picture.


----------



## seasam

sdr said:


> Holding the Mk II loosely in my right hand with thumb on the side switch and index finger curled under and around the head. And the same handhold being applied to the Mk III with my right hand. I activated both lights simultaneously, maintaining the described hold for precisely 3 minutes. At the end of that 3 minutes the Mk II was extremely hot! Much hotter, in fact, than the Mk III. *Neither light had stepped down at that point.*



I would be really surprised if the lack of step down were true. My sc600w steps down as soon as it warms up - I used a light meter to help verify. 

PS Any tips on making those handy finger lanyards you have?


----------



## newbie66

10°C is warm? Even 22°C mostly impossible to get where I live(city area). Daytime around 31°C-33°C. Imagine how fast my Zebralight H600 mkii gets quite difficult to hold in such climate. Between 30-50 seconds. I would probably prefer a PID that would step down more aggressively.

Not having enough step downs is not good for the user. Especially in hot climates.


----------



## markr6

seasam said:


> I would be really surprised if the lack of step down were true.



Me too. It's usually so gradual you can miss it if you blink. And even then, it's not a "standard" stepdown like Fenix or many other manufacturers. If you looks closely, sometimes you can see like 6 tiny stepdowns within a second or so. Almost like a dimmer.

It's that solid chunk of aluminum doing its job





p.s. SC62w down to $75 on sale!


----------



## newbie66

Why you selling? Just keep it!


----------



## sdr

seasam said:


> I would be really surprised if the lack of step down were true. My sc600w steps down as soon as it warms up - I used a light meter to help verify.
> 
> PS Any tips on making those handy finger lanyards you have?



I can only say that if either light did in fact step down it was imperceptible to me. I was conducting my testing during daylight hours and there was sunshine filtering in through somewhat closed, but not completely, mini blinds. I cannot discount the possibility.

The lanyards are pretty straight forward. A length of paracord. A bead. A knot or end closure like you see on my lanyards. Simply run your paracord through the split ring. Place the bead on the paracord. Secure the ends. Voila! You have a pinkie lanyard. So simple even I could do it! And that's saying something.

Cheers, my friend!


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> p.s. SC62w down to $75 on sale!



That must mean that the 63 pre-order is getting close. Just think. We get to start the process of agonizing over a delivery date all over again. Whip me! Beat me! Hurt me, baby! I love the pain!


----------



## newbie66

sdr said:


> That must mean that the 63 pre-order is getting close. Just think. We get to start the process of agonizing over a delivery date all over again. Whip me! Beat me! Hurt me, baby! I love the pain!



What! Lol!


----------



## markr6

newbie66 said:


> Why you selling? Just keep it!



Because I'm SOO picky  And I over-analyze little things like this. This cell is unwrapped. Wrapping it helped A LOT, but still not as nice as my MKII.


----------



## newbie66

markr6 said:


> Because I'm SOO picky  And I over-analyze little things like this. This cell is unwrapped. Wrapping it helped A LOT, but still not as nice as my MKII.




Wow, I did not know it rattled that much. Not exactly a deal breaker for me but everyone has his own preferences. You go ahead and do what you gotta do.


----------



## Tixx

markr6 said:


> There was zero green in my CW version. It was just a little cool overall for me.
> 
> The NW I just sold Tixx is nice too. I wouldn't call it green, just a little too warm for me. Without any reference it is fine. But for some reason I torture myself and compare with perfect lights. I need to stop!


Yeah, I know. Start comparing and you go crazy finding color in any light.


----------



## seasam

markr6 said:


> Because I'm SOO picky  And I over-analyze little things like this. This cell is unwrapped. Wrapping it helped A LOT, but still not as nice as my MKII.




I wonder if it would rattle less if there were more spring contacts in the tail cap. There are only 4 in the sc600 mk3, but there are 7 in the sc5 :shrug:


----------



## markr6

seasam said:


> I wonder if it would rattle less if there were more spring contacts in the tail cap. There are only 4 in the sc600 mk3, but there are 7 in the sc5 :shrug:



Maybe. I think a little more travel in the springs would have been more appropriate. But they're so small I don't think any number would hold as tight as a traditional spring.


----------



## twistedraven

I ended up doing a stupid thing and used electrical tape on my battery for the SC600 MK3 lol. The fit was so tight that I couldn't pull it out. I think the only way I'll be able to get it out is to epoxy something onto the end of it so I can pull it out. I'm not sure I'll be able to salvage the battery after that. Luckily I still have the unprotected cell that Zebralight had with the light. Next time I'll have to use just scotch tape.

Sdr, thanks for the picture, it was helpful. It does tell me two things: that the Predator v 2.5's beam is tiny compared to the v 3.0 (unless your flashlights are much further from the wall than I thought-- my flashlights were about 3-4 inches away from a white sheet of paper), and that your SC600 MK3 doesn't have much tint variation visible. Mark6's comments about his having zero green is promising as well. I'll try to see about returning or exchanging this light with Zebralight. If anything I'll just return it and later buy another one, as their guarantee is unconditional.

Edit: oh, and yes. That XPL-HI in the Predator v3.0 is very consistent tint wise. I wouldn't say mine is pure white-- moreso overall blue-green, but when viewed by itself it's a very pure cool white.


----------



## ven

Try a dab of super glue and some thin string/rope /paracord. Then once out just carefully scrape off the residue. Maybe a strong magnet might work!


----------



## newbie66

twistedraven said:


> I ended up doing a stupid thing and used electrical tape on my battery for the SC600 MK3 lol. The fit was so tight that I couldn't pull it out. I think the only way I'll be able to get it out is to epoxy something onto the end of it so I can pull it out. I'm not sure I'll be able to salvage the battery after that. Luckily I still have the unprotected cell that Zebralight had with the light. Next time I'll have to use just scotch tape.
> 
> Sdr, thanks for the picture, it was helpful. It does tell me two things: that the Predator v 2.5's beam is tiny compared to the v 3.0 (unless your flashlights are much further from the wall than I thought-- my flashlights were about 3-4 inches away from a white sheet of paper), and that your SC600 MK3 doesn't have much tint variation visible. Mark6's comments about his having zero green is promising as well. I'll try to see about returning or exchanging this light with Zebralight. If anything I'll just return it and later buy another one, as their guarantee is unconditional.



Ouch! That is most unfortunate. Hopefully you won't damage your light so that you can return it. Be careful.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

twistedraven said:


> I ended up doing a stupid thing and used electrical tape on my battery for the SC600 MK3 lol. The fit was so tight that I couldn't pull it out. I think the only way I'll be able to get it out is to epoxy something onto the end of it so I can pull it out. I'm not sure I'll be able to salvage the battery after that. Luckily I still have the unprotected cell that Zebralight had with the light. Next time I'll have to use just scotch tape.
> 
> Sdr, thanks for the picture, it was helpful. It does tell me two things: that the Predator v 2.5's beam is tiny compared to the v 3.0 (unless your flashlights are much further from the wall than I thought-- my flashlights were about 3-4 inches away from a white sheet of paper), and that your SC600 MK3 doesn't have much tint variation visible. Mark6's comments about his having zero green is promising as well. I'll try to see about returning or exchanging this light with Zebralight. If anything I'll just return it and later buy another one, as their guarantee is unconditional.
> 
> Edit: oh, and yes. That XPL-HI in the Predator v3.0 is very consistent tint wise. I wouldn't say mine is pure white-- moreso overall blue-green, but when viewed by itself it's a very pure cool white.





Zero green on my CW SC600 MkIII!

The tint is a nice white that is consistent.


CHEERS


----------



## snowlover91

sdr said:


> That must mean that the 63 pre-order is getting close. Just think. We get to start the process of agonizing over a delivery date all over again. Whip me! Beat me! Hurt me, baby! I love the pain!



I emailed ZL yesterday and they said the MK3 and SC63 would be available for preorder before the end of the month. Maybe this week they will, I'm tempted to get both lol but I'll have to choose one.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> I emailed ZL yesterday and they said the MK3 and SC63 would be available for preorder before the end of the month. Maybe this week they will, I'm tempted to get both lol but I'll have to choose one.



I'm not into throwers that much, but I'm really excited about such a small thrower with this UI. Definitely something new to ZL.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Mr Floppy said:


> Suspected that they wouldn't ship 18650s to Australia. Don't know about Europe either




I received no battery with my SC600MkIII here in Australia.

As expected.



CHEERS


----------



## recDNA

Some of you tried testing MKII vs MKIIII by holding it in your hand on H1. Your conclusion was the MKII felt hotter so MKIII is better at dissipating heat? Since they both have the same PID circuit it is my contention that the one that FEELS hotter is BETTER at dissipating heat! They both get hot. The one better at getting heat AWAY from the led transmits the heat through the head and body to your hand. For example if you put a 1000 lumen drop in in an acrylic host it doesn't FEEL hot at all....until it melts.


----------



## jhe888

I think I read that they shipped orders to non-U.S. customers directly from the factory. I assume that they are adding the bonus battery in Dallas when they ship out the U.S. orders.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Some of you tried testing MKII vs MKIIII by holding it in your hand on H1. Your conclusion was the MKII felt hotter so MKIII is better at dissipating heat? Since they both have the same PID circuit it is my contention that the one that FEELS hotter is BETTER at dissipating heat! They both get hot. The one better at getting heat AWAY from the led transmits the heat through the head and body to your hand. For example if you put a 1000 lumen drop in in an acrylic host it doesn't FEEL hot at all....until it melts.



Not quite the case. A light that dissipates heat better won't necessarily get hotter. For example if I take my SC62w outside when it's really cold or if I blow a fan on it, it only gets warm. Now if I take the same light on the same mode with no air circulation or the temp is warmer then it gets much warmer to the touch. The reason being is the air circulation/colder temps allow for better heat dissipation resulting in a cooler light. 

Furthermore the XHP35 is a much more efficient emitter compared with the XM-L2 and produces less heat at the same output levels. The new Mk3 also has the heat fins whereas the MK2 did not, another factor increasing efficient cooling/heat sinking and giving a cooler light when run on turbo. The fact that the light is cooler tells me that ZL has done their job in improving the efficiency of heatsinking by using both a more efficient emitter and adding the head fins. For more info you may want to read up on cree's data sheet about thermal management for the XHP35, it discusses in detail these aspects and many others. The cooler feel is expected due to better thermal management and is a positive change.


----------



## twistedraven

The funny thing is I find my MK3 rather nice of a tint when putting a diffuser over it, but without the diffuser, the transition from hotspot to spill is horrid looking lol.

I too don't feel my MK3 ever getting too hot too fast.


----------



## CM2010

Just got my MK3, no battery and no rattle. As for being CW I wouldn't say it is, still love it tho.


----------



## seasam

sdr said:


> I can only say that if either light did in fact step down it was imperceptible to me. I was conducting my testing during daylight hours and there was sunshine filtering in through somewhat closed, but not completely, mini blinds. I cannot discount the possibility.
> 
> The lanyards are pretty straight forward. A length of paracord. A bead. A knot or end closure like you see on my lanyards. Simply run your paracord through the split ring. Place the bead on the paracord. Secure the ends. Voila! You have a pinkie lanyard. So simple even I could do it! And that's saying something.
> 
> Cheers, my friend!



oh yes, if you were doing this in daylight it was probably not perceptible. I checked mine in a dark room, there are very small steps like markr6 says.

thanks for the lanyard tips, they're a great idea!


----------



## markr6

CM2010 said:


> Just got my MK3, no battery and no rattle. As for being CW I wouldn't say it is, still love it tho.



What battery are you using that doesn't rattle? I used a wrapped NCR18650GA which is pretty thick and still got a very slight rattle.


----------



## twistedraven

Epoxy battery removal surgery went flawlessly. Was able to pull it out instantly by pulling straight out, and pulling horizontally against the epoxy'd wooden stick made the epoxy completely come off the metal end of the battery with no mess at all.

Electrical tape and batteries in flashlights-- don't do it.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> Electrical tape and batteries in flashlights-- don't do it.



I used the clear shrink wrap from Illumn - $1.00 for 10 pre-cut sleeves. It worked great.


----------



## CM2010

markr6 said:


> What battery are you using that doesn't rattle? I used a wrapped NCR18650GA which is pretty thick and still got a very slight rattle.



Ahhhh, just checked again. I'm using the same as you but if i shake it up and down i don't get the rattle if i go side to side it rattles!


----------



## markr6

CM2010 said:


> Ahhhh, just checked again. I'm using the same as you but if i shake it up and down i don't get the rattle if i go side to side it rattles!



Got it. That video is without any wrapper. But like I said in my post above, the clear wrapper almost eliminates it completely with a nice tight fit.


----------



## CM2010

I've got some copper tape maybe a bit of that on the battery will stop the rattle.


----------



## sdr

twistedraven said:


> Sdr, thanks for the picture, it was helpful. It does tell me two things: that the Predator v 2.5's beam is tiny compared to the v 3.0 (unless your flashlights are much further from the wall than I thought-- my flashlights were about 3-4 inches away from a white sheet of paper), and that your SC600 MK3 doesn't have much tint variation visible. Mark6's comments about his having zero green is promising as well. I'll try to see about returning or exchanging this light with Zebralight. If anything I'll just return it and later buy another one, as their guarantee is unconditional.



I positioned my lights about 7 inches from the wall they were aimed at. Any further back and the SC600's spill grew too large to photograph. As I mentioned, the thing that really stood out to me was focused beam of my Predator Pro v2.5 versus the beam of the PP v3. I remember when I first unboxed my LE PP v3 and did the side by side with my 2.5 I was in a state of disbelief. Based on AT's claims of 500+ meter throw for the LE I had anticipated a much more focused beam profile. At least something akin to the v2.5? As evidenced in our two photographs, as well as what I personally experienced, the beam profile of the LE PP v3 produced a great deal more peripheral spill and was not nearly as laser focused. At least that's what I'm seeing. I'm glad my photo help a little!


----------



## ven

CM2010 said:


> Ahhhh, just checked again. I'm using the same as you but if i shake it up and down i don't get the rattle if i go side to side it rattles!




Whats with you guys doing all this shaking:naughty: makes you go blind.............especially on H1


----------



## sdr

ven said:


> Whats with you guys doing all this shaking:naughty: makes you go blind.............especially on H1



I'm just gonna shake mine till I need glasses


----------



## ven

:laughing:


----------



## scs

markr6 said:


> Because I'm SOO picky  And I over-analyze little things like this. This cell is unwrapped. Wrapping it helped A LOT, but still not as nice as my MKII.



You're not alone. That would bother me much as well.
Perhaps the ID of the body could be a bit smaller, though weight would increase slightly.


----------



## recDNA

Since there is room to rattle...has anybody found a protected flat head cell that fits and works?


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> Since there is room to rattle...has anybody found a protected flat head cell that fits and works?



I doubt it. Not even an unprotected NCR18650GA or B with button top. That's only 1-2mm longer than a bare cell. Very tight tolerance here.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> I doubt it. Not even an unprotected NCR18650GA or B with button top. That's only 1-2mm longer than a bare cell. Very tight tolerance here.


Surprising it rattles then. I suppose that is the lack of a spring.


----------



## Humantorch

sdr said:


> I'm just gonna shake mine till I need glasses



Try this with your NCR18650B/GA flat top cells:

If you hold the MKII in your left hand, and the MKIII in your right hand, you can play the maracas 

Yep, both the MKII and the MKIII can be made to rattle with flat-top 65mm cells.


----------



## Glenn7

Using 30Q batteries with no rattle - beam on the MIII is as tight as the MII but brighter and perfectly white unlike the MII tint which when side by side is green  :green:  definitely getting rid of the MII.


----------



## sdr

Humantorch said:


> Try this with your NCR18650B/GA flat top cells:
> 
> If you hold the MKII in your left hand, and the MKIII in your right hand, you can play the maracas
> 
> Yep, both the MKII and the MKIII can be made to rattle with flat-top 65mm cells.



Actually, I have been using flat top 65mm cells in my Mk II for quite some time and there is zero rattle in mine. (Panasonic NCR18650B and Sanyo NCR18650GA) However, I cannot make that same claim when using flat top 65mm's in my Original SC600. Granted, I have to shake it REAL hard (more so than with my Mk III) in order to produce a rattle. But, indeed, it will rattle when shaken vigorously enough. 

Let's review *MY* experiences...

Mk I - It will rattle when shaken vigorously!
Mk II - Does not rattle. Nope, no rattle. Zip!
Mk III - Rattles when shaken like a maraca!

As always, your mileage may vary.


----------



## sdr

Glenn7 said:


> Using 30Q batteries with no rattle - beam on the MIII is as tight as the MII but brighter and perfectly white unlike the MII tint which when side by side is green  :green:  definitely getting rid of the MII.



Hmm? Interesting! Obviously the extra .3mm width on the 30Q's is the determining factor. Are you having any difficulty removing the cells from the light? They're not TOO tight? *Sounding a little like Goldilocks* Are they..._Just Right?_


----------



## 18650

Some of my lights rattle when shaken. Do I care though? No because I have to shake them fairly violently to hear it and it would never come up in normal usage.


----------



## Glenn7

sdr said:


> Hmm? Interesting! Obviously the extra .3mm width on the 30Q's is the determining factor. Are you having any difficulty removing the cells from the light? They're not TOO tight? *Sounding a little like Goldilocks* Are they..._Just Right?_


30Q's fit right to me - you have to shake the crap out of it to make it rattle and they fall out nice and easy. 
Personally I can't see why anyone wouldn't like this light for EDC. But for me I have found just a few niggles, probably not an issue for most - in a stressful situation it's hard to find the button and use the UI compared to a tail cap button, and it gets real hot quick when you need high for extended use - but as I said for general duties it's great.


----------



## OrlandoLights

Would these batteries from Mtn Electronics fit the MKIII: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_88&product_id=545
They are the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500 mAh 10A but the height is listed as 65.5 mm (diameter is 18.6mm). Would the XTAR VP2 be a good charger to go with these batteries?

I don't think the rattle will bother me, since I don't don't use lights for anything more strenuous that moderate hiking and setting up camp. But if wrapping a battery, do you put the new wrap over the one that's already there? Could another layer affect battery heat buildup in any way that matters?

I like warmer tints, but the MKIII cool white beam shots posted here are beautiful. I'll probably go with the CW, and see if a Lee Filter will work on this light when out in nature.


----------



## henry1960

When Zebra light produced this light blue prints and all..Do you mean they did not see this the rattle with a 65mm battery???????


----------



## seasam

OrlandoLights said:


> Would these batteries from Mtn Electronics fit the MKIII: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_88&product_id=545
> They are the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500 mAh 10A but the height is listed as 65.5 mm (diameter is 18.6mm). Would the XTAR VP2 be a good charger to go with these batteries?
> 
> I don't think the rattle will bother me, since I don't don't use lights for anything more strenuous that moderate hiking and setting up camp. But if wrapping a battery, do you put the new wrap over the one that's already there? Could another layer affect battery heat buildup in any way that matters?
> 
> I like warmer tints, but the MKIII cool white beam shots posted here are beautiful. I'll probably go with the CW, and see if a Lee Filter will work on this light when out in nature.



Those batteries you listed are the same ones ZL ships with the SC600w for those of us in the USA. 

The rattle isn't that bad, I can make all of my lights rattle if I shake them hard enough, it's just this light rattles a little easier. I guess I wouldn't jog with this light, but general useage it's fine.


----------



## markr6

OrlandoLights said:


> Would these batteries from Mtn Electronics fit the MKIII: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_88&product_id=545
> They are the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500 mAh 10A but the height is listed as 65.5 mm (diameter is 18.6mm). Would the XTAR VP2 be a good charger to go with these batteries?
> 
> I don't think the rattle will bother me, since I don't don't use lights for anything more strenuous that moderate hiking and setting up camp. But if wrapping a battery, do you put the new wrap over the one that's already there? Could another layer affect battery heat buildup in any way that matters?
> 
> I like warmer tints, but the MKIII cool white beam shots posted here are beautiful. I'll probably go with the CW, and see if a Lee Filter will work on this light when out in nature.



Yes the NCR186GA flat tops fit. I put clear shrink wrap on mine and it almost eliminated the rattle. Yes you put it right over the red OEM wrap



seasam said:


> Those batteries you listed are the same ones ZL ships with the SC600w for those of us in the USA.
> 
> The rattle isn't that bad, I can make all of my lights rattle if I shake them hard enough, it's just this light rattles a little easier. I guess I wouldn't jog with this light, but general useage it's fine.



Close, but not the GA. ZL is shipping the NCR18650BF.

My MKII doesn't rattle no matter what. It's basically an indestructible pipe bomb. I'm surprised people don't mind it. It doesn't affect performance but it's just so annoying. Another example is my BLF A6 - I have to use a wrapped button top in that or else it rattles like crazy.


----------



## Mr Floppy

markr6 said:


> I'm surprised people don't mind it. It doesn't affect performance but it's just so annoying



If I was worried by a little rattle, I would have ditched my Renault long ago


----------



## seasam

markr6 said:


> Yes the NCR186GA flat tops fit. I put clear shrink wrap on mine and it almost eliminated the rattle. Yes you put it right over the red OEM wrap
> 
> 
> 
> Close, but not the GA. *ZL is shipping the NCR18650BF.*



You are correct, my mistake :duh2:


----------



## markr6

Mr Floppy said:


> If I was worried by a little rattle, I would have ditched my Renault long ago



Haha you should see my Jeep Grand Cherokee!

I guess my point isn't the fact that the flashlight rattles and it can be ignored...it's that there is a FIX and a proper way = NO rattle. Again, comparing to another flashlight (MKII) will make it worse.


----------



## Swede74

I know this is a Zebralight thread, but a cylinder is a cylinder. This is what I use to prevent rattle in my Nitecore MT2A. I hope the picture is worth, if not a thousand words, then at least the one that says "bakplåtspapper" in English.


----------



## markr6

That'll do it. Here's my MKIII back from page 38...plastic + a little paper at the tail end for NO rattle.

Paper wrapped






Clear wrap - highly recommended! I bought mine from Illumn.


----------



## The Whispering Gallery

Looks like I'm getting a MKIII NW as a graduation gift from my wife! 

With regards to battery wrapping, is no one worried about the battery getting too hot due to the added insulation?


----------



## markr6

The Whispering Gallery said:


> Looks like I'm getting a MKIII NW as a graduation gift from my wife!
> 
> With regards to battery wrapping, is no one worried about the battery getting too hot due to the added insulation?



I wouldn't worry about it. Many reputable resellers have to add their own wrapping when attaching button tops and protection circuits. It is very common.

The heat from the hair dryer will probably be the hottest temps that battery will ever see!


----------



## sidecross

OrlandoLights said:


> Would these batteries from Mtn Electronics fit the MKIII: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_88&product_id=545
> They are the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500 mAh 10A but the height is listed as 65.5 mm (diameter is 18.6mm). Would the XTAR VP2 be a good charger to go with these batteries?
> 
> I don't think the rattle will bother me, since I don't don't use lights for anything more strenuous that moderate hiking and setting up camp. But if wrapping a battery, do you put the new wrap over the one that's already there? Could another layer affect battery heat buildup in any way that matters?
> 
> I like warmer tints, but the MKIII cool white beam shots posted here are beautiful. I'll probably go with the CW, and see if a Lee Filter will work on this light when out in nature.


The Xtar VP2 is one of my most used chargers the other ones I use often is the Xtar SP2; your choice of Mountain Electronics for batteries is a good choice too.


----------



## simba23

I got the XTAR charger. It's nice because you can see what the actual mah capacity of the batteries are.


----------



## simba23

Man, I still haven't received my mk3. I got it preordered too, but it's international shipping. So slow!


----------



## CM2010

The Whispering Gallery said:


> Looks like I'm getting a MKIII NW as a graduation gift from my wife!
> 
> With regards to battery wrapping, is no one worried about the battery getting too hot due to the added insulation?



I used copper tape.


----------



## psychbeat

Seems like they over-bored the bodies a bit. Maybe it's something that will be corrected in future batches. 
No need for such a large ID for raw cells..


----------



## gottawearshades

I see that all versions of SC62s are now $10 off on the ZL site. Change is in the air.


----------



## markr6

gottawearshades said:


> I see that all versions of SC62s are now $10 off on the ZL site. Change is in the air.






markr6 said:


> p.s. SC62w down to $75 on sale!



Yup! SC63 on it's way soon


----------



## ven

Being a tight a55 i may bite for a proven sc62!!! :laughing:


----------



## jhe888

sdr said:


> Mk I - It will rattle when shaken vigorously!
> Mk II - Does not rattle. Nope, no rattle. Zip!
> Mk III - Rattles when shaken like a maraca!



What if you shake them like a Polaroid picture?


----------



## sdr

jhe888 said:


> What if you shake them like a Polaroid picture?



Indeed. A common misconception. A James Bond martini is to be shaken. Whereas a Polaroid picture should neither be shaken or waved. Simply laying it on a flat surface will suffice. See link---> http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/02/17/polaroid.warns.reut/

My ZebraLight SC600 Mk III need only be turned on. Shaking is not required.


----------



## AussieRanga

psychbeat said:


> Seems like they over-bored the bodies a bit. Maybe it's something that will be corrected in future batches.
> No need for such a large ID for raw cells..



Leaving it the way it is, allowing you to shrink wrap a cell to bring it closer to filling the tube out, will be a much better option IMO

Most lights rattle to some extent. Because we are so used to the SC63 and SC600 MkII and the complete (and almost complete for some) lack of rattle, this is, thanks to the forums, made out to be a bigger issue than it is in reality..

I, like a few others, have found the insulated wrapping of OEM cells to be often less than adequate at providing any sort of mechanichal protection so adding an additional wrap will, particularly in this case, not only lessen any battery rattle, but will also protect the battery much more. 

The only times I have damaged any of the wrapping on my cells is when removed from a VP1 or VP2 so don't discount this from happening to you guys..


----------



## jmwking

I like a little space to put a return address around the battery...

-jk


----------



## psychbeat

AussieRanga said:


> Leaving it the way it is, allowing you to shrink wrap a cell to bring it closer to filling the tube out, will be a much better option IMO
> 
> Most lights rattle to some extent. Because we are so used to the SC63 and SC600 MkII and the complete (and almost complete for some) lack of rattle, this is, thanks to the forums, made out to be a bigger issue than it is in reality..
> 
> I, like a few others, have found the insulated wrapping of OEM cells to be often less than adequate at providing any sort of mechanichal protection so adding an additional wrap will, particularly in this case, not only lessen any battery rattle, but will also protect the battery much more.
> 
> The only times I have damaged any of the wrapping on my cells is when removed from a VP1 or VP2 so don't discount this from happening to you guys..



Idk - none of my lights rattle except for my Solarforce hosts. 
Seems like a mistake on Zebras end to me. 

Ridiculous to have to wrap cells in a light that's supposedly designed for raw cells. 

Even my double wrapped (I often wrap cells too) fit in my H600W fine - a tad snug in my bored SureFire host. 
Everything else I have has a bit more wiggle room but they all have springs. 

I'm hoping they pull the ID in a bit on future batches and on the other forthcoming models.


----------



## Mr Floppy

jhe888 said:


> What if you shake them like a Polaroid picture?



You think you've got it
Oh, you think you've got it
But got it just don't get it
'Til there's nothing at all-a-all-a-all

Shake it sugar!

...

So no good for an Outkast gig then ...


----------



## OrlandoLights

Swede74 said:


> I know this is a Zebralight thread, but a cylinder is a cylinder. This is what I use to prevent rattle in my Nitecore MT2A. I hope the picture is worth, if not a thousand words, then at least the one that says "bakplåtspapper" in English.


Good idea, parchment paper that withstands baking temperatures, and it would be a place for a return address like jmwking posted.


----------



## OrlandoLights

I'm trying to hold off on ordering from Zebralight until the SC63 is released to compare. Those beam shots of the MKIII aren't helping my will power any.

Thanks for the replies to my post #1268. Looks like the XTAR VP2 is thumbs up and an extra wrap is no problem with heat buildup. Still not sure about the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 65.5mm unprotected at mtnelectronics. Will 65.5mm be too long? Would it be better to go with the NCR18650BF 65mm that Zebralight is selling?


----------



## oeL

OrlandoLights said:


> Still not sure about the Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 65.5mm unprotected at mtnelectronics. Will 65.5mm be too long? Would it be better to go with the NCR18650BF 65mm that Zebralight is selling?



Since some time Zebralight does sell a Sanyo NCR18650GA as an accessoire. And I guess they have sent out some MKIII's with this cell as a little gift... so it will surely fit


----------



## Humantorch

The NCR18650GA cells fit my MKIII just fine, but they do rattle when the torch is moved around like the Samsung and LG 18650's out there.

I'm liking the MKIII more each day, my NW tint is very close to my nichia lights... At least up high


----------



## markr6

I think a lot of my posts are getting missed...understood since we're up to 44 pages now!! So a quick recap:

NCR18650*GA* IS NOT being included with the MKIII by Zebralight. They sell those, but the NCR18650*BF *is the cell being included for US buyers.

NCR18650*GA* fits (better fit and less rattle with clear wrapper)
NCR18650*GA *button top does NOT fit
NCR18650*B*fits (better fit and less rattle with clear wrapper)
NCR18650*B *button top does NOT fit
Samsung 18650F fits

see the pattern?

SO basically anything other than a plain straight up OEM cell will not fit.

And just to give everyone an idea of the tight tolerances on Zebralights, when I insert an *NCR18650GA *with clear wrap into:

H600w - does not fit
SC600w II - fits fine
SC600w III - barely fits...won't "fall" in so I have to push it. Then I need to shake it out.
SC62w - only fits half way, but if I "scratch" the wrapper with scissors, but without cutting it, that TINY reduction allows it to slide in.

So this is highly dependent on the thickness of the wrapper too. Another example:

2 out of 3 NCR18650B from mtn electronics did not fit H600w
2 out of 2 NCR18650B from Fasttech did fit H600w

Same cells, same "batches", same everything. The tiniest variation of wrap can cause a problem. I actually removed the wrap and re-wrapped; all cells work now.


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> I think a lot of my posts are getting missed...understood since we're up to 44 pages now!! So a quick recap:
> 
> NCR18650*GA* IS NOT being included with the MKIII by Zebralight. They sell those, but the NCR18650*BF *is the cell being included for US buyers.
> 
> NCR18650*GA* fits (better fit and less rattle with clear wrapper)
> NCR18650*GA *button top does NOT fit
> NCR18650*B*fits (better fit and less rattle with clear wrapper)
> NCR18650*B *button top does NOT fit
> Samsung 18650F fits
> 
> see the pattern?
> 
> SO basically anything other than a plain straight up OEM cell will not fit.
> 
> And just to give everyone an idea of the tight tolerances on Zebralights, when I insert an *NCR18650GA *with clear wrap into:
> 
> H600w - does not fit
> SC600w II - fits fine
> SC600w III - barely fits...won't "fall" in so I have to push it. Then I need to shake it out.
> SC62w - only fits half way, but if I "scratch" the wrapper with scissors, but without cutting it, that TINY reduction allows it to slide in.
> 
> So this is highly dependent on the thickness of the wrapper too. Another example:
> 
> 2 out of 3 NCR18650B from mtn electronics did not fit H600w
> 2 out of 2 NCR18650B from Fasttech did fit H600w
> 
> Same cells, same "batches", same everything. The tiniest variation of wrap can cause a problem. I actually removed the wrap and re-wrapped; all cells work now.



_
"If the cell don't fit you must omit!"_ *~* Johnny Cochran 1995


----------



## markr6

sdr said:


> _
> "If the cell don't fit you must omit!"_ *~* Johnny Cochran 1995



LOL I love it!!


----------



## seasam

LOL


----------



## ven

:laughing:

I dont think a day goes by without a smile/smirk/giggle on here.........fantastic!


----------



## Glock27

Second shipment landed in Texas on the 21!
December 22, 2015 , 7:36 am 

Out for Delivery 

Darn rural route carrier sure better deliver today! I was disappointed earlier when I thought that Santa was not going to be able to have a new light in my Christmas stocking!

G27


----------



## markr6

Glock27 said:


> Darn rural route carrier sure better deliver today!



I'm sure they will...maybe a few hours later than usual. At least that's what I've been seeing.


----------



## simba23

markr6 said:


> LOL I love it!!



Nice photoshop!


----------



## gottawearshades

You know, for a battery type that is named after its physical dimensions, it amazes me that no two makes of 18650 are the same size. 

It's like having to measure a yardstick before you can use it, some people preferring the longer yardsticks, while other requiring a shorter yardstick.

Ack.


----------



## markr6

gottawearshades said:


> You know, for a battery type that is named after its physical dimensions, it amazes me that no two makes of 18650 are the same size.
> 
> It's like having to measure a yardstick before you can use it, some people preferring the longer yardsticks, while other requiring a shorter yardstick.
> 
> Ack.



I know what you mean. But even joking about the yardsticks can be somewhat true. Some guys in the factory where I used to work were only allowed to use Lufkin and some other brand of tape measures since some varied too much! We're talking tight tolerances here, but still shows not all are created equal.


----------



## jhe888

Last report was that mine would go out on January 4. Maybe I'll get lucky and get a December 2X ship date!


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> LOL I love it!!



Good show, Mark! Love the photograph! Shocking to see that The Juice appears to be suffering from the same affliction that Michael Jackson had...vitiligo. That right wrist appears to have lost almost all of its pigmentation! :devil: *wink*

*********************************************************************************

Let me try to salvage this discussion -- I took delivery of a new NiteCore D4 Digicharger yesterday. I had been using the earlier model, the I4 Intellicharger, for the past couple of years. The D4 has way more bells and whistles than its predecessor, what with that visual display n' all. 

Lately I find myself scratching my head in disbelief. A few short years ago I didn't know a lumen from a legume. I just wanted an efficient flashlight. Now I find my home strewn with lights, batteries & chargers! And, my free time is consumed with an insatiable desire to educate myself about battery chemistries, milliamps and voltage! Not to mention millimeters, battery rattle and shrink wrap! Sacrebleu! Is there no end to this insanity!?! :shakehead


----------



## sidecross

In the mean time my SC600 Mk II L2 18650 XM-L2 finally arrived, and I will wait a bit longer to see if their are changes made to the newer Mklll. In any regard Zebralight makes a very good flashlight.


----------



## fnsooner

Uh Oh. I am now finding myself going to the ZL website daily to see if the SC600w MKIII HI and/or the SC63w is up for pre-order. I had found myself unusually patient up to now. I want my flashlights and I want them now!:ironic:


----------



## scs

sidecross said:


> In the mean time my SC600 Mk II L2 18650 XM-L2 finally arrived, and I will wait a bit longer to see if their are changes made to the newer Mklll. In any regard Zebralight makes a very good flashlight.



Wise move. I'm eyeing the SC62 at the reduced price.


----------



## ven

sdr said:


> Lately I find myself scratching my head in disbelief. A few short years ago I didn't know a lumen from a legume. I just wanted an efficient flashlight. Now I find my home strewn with lights, batteries & chargers! And, my free time is consumed with an insatiable desire to educate myself about battery chemistries, milliamps and voltage! Not to mention millimeters, battery rattle and shrink wrap! Sacrebleu! Is there no end to this insanity!?! :shakehead




Its all part of the fun and keeps the interest ,as personally i am forever learning............

Wont be long till you have a variety of chargers and more cells you can shake a flashlight at!


----------



## twistedraven

Took the 5700k MK3 while night walking. It gets my outdoors seal of approval. White enough but not ghostly blue.


----------



## simba23

sdr said:


> Good show, Mark! Love the photograph! Shocking to see that The Juice appears to be suffering from the same affliction that Michael Jackson had...vitiligo. That right wrist appears to have lost almost all of its pigmentation! :devil: *wink*
> 
> *********************************************************************************
> 
> Let me try to salvage this discussion -- I took delivery of a new NiteCore D4 Digicharger yesterday. I had been using the earlier model, the I4 Intellicharger, for the past couple of years. The D4 has way more bells and whistles than its predecessor, what with that visual display n' all.
> 
> Lately I find myself scratching my head in disbelief. A few short years ago I didn't know a lumen from a legume. I just wanted an efficient flashlight. Now I find my home strewn with lights, batteries & chargers! And, my free time is consumed with an insatiable desire to educate myself about battery chemistries, milliamps and voltage! Not to mention millimeters, battery rattle and shrink wrap! Sacrebleu! Is there no end to this insanity!?! :shakehead



Does the charger show the mah capacity?


----------



## Hogman338

fnsooner said:


> Uh Oh. I am now finding myself going to the ZL website daily to see if the SC600w MKIII HI and/or the SC63w is up for pre-order. I had found myself unusually patient up to now. I want my flashlights and I want them now!:ironic:


w
I'm new here at this forum & already have bought several lights. I couldn't pass up the price on the SC62w it shipped out today. I mostly hangout on the gun forums I'm new to this flashlight addiction.


----------



## sdr

simba23 said:


> Does the charger show the mah capacity?



No.


----------



## fnsooner

Hogman338 said:


> w
> I'm new here at this forum & already have bought several lights. I couldn't pass up the price on the SC62w it shipped out today. I mostly hangout on the gun forums I'm new to this flashlight addiction.



Welcome to the addiction. I think you will love the SC62w. It is my favorite and my EDC since it has been out. Before that I carried the SC60w, which is the 62’s predecessor. It will be hard for Zebralight to improve on the 62 with the 63. 

Be sure to tell us what you think of your new light after it arrives.


----------



## markr6

sdr said:


> Good show, Mark! Love the photograph! Shocking to see that The Juice appears to be suffering from the same affliction that Michael Jackson had...vitiligo. That right wrist appears to have lost almost all of its pigmentation! :devil: *wink*



Must have been the crappy photo to begin with. I didn't touch the hand at all, just to be clear 

Regarding the SC62w, I may get another if the SC63 ends up being too beefy like the SC5. I like both, but that SC5 is a TANK! Not as nice to carry in a pocket as the SC52. So it could be a similar thing with the SC62/63. Hoping to find out soon!


----------



## marinemaster

SC62W still awesome after all this years [emoji106]
Fits ALL 18650 [emoji111]️


----------



## recDNA

With the sc62 sized head at 3 amps would xp-g2 throw further than xp-l hi?


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> With the sc62 sized head at 3 amps would xp-g2 throw further than xp-l hi?




In theory the XP-L HI should throw further. Being dedomed would significantly help but with such a small reflector the increase in throw wouldn't be all that noticeable. It would be a slightly tighter hotspot but that's the main difference you would see when white wall hunting.


----------



## recDNA

Xp-g2 should have the smaller hotspot.


----------



## scs

I've seen this question regarding XP-G2 and XP-L HI, which I have myself, but have not come across a direct comparison.
By the specs, IIRC, they both have the same viewing angle: 115 degree, but the XP-G2's spatial distribution seems to pack more lumens into the center of the emitting angle.
But the XP-L HI produces more lumens per watt...end result could be both are too similar in any identical reflector.


----------



## carl

I suspect the XPL-HI would have slightly less throw but significantly greater overall output. I'd go with the XPL-HI.


----------



## Nice65

markr6 said:


> I think a lot of my posts are getting missed...understood since we're up to 44 pages now!! So a quick recap:
> 
> NCR18650*GA* IS NOT being included with the MKIII by Zebralight. They sell those, but the NCR18650*BF *is the cell being included for US buyers.
> 
> NCR18650*GA* fits (better fit and less rattle with clear wrapper)
> NCR18650*GA *button top does NOT fit
> NCR18650*B*fits (better fit and less rattle with clear wrapper)
> NCR18650*B *button top does NOT fit
> Samsung 18650F fits
> 
> see the pattern?
> 
> SO basically anything other than a plain straight up OEM cell will not fit.
> 
> And just to give everyone an idea of the tight tolerances on Zebralights, when I insert an *NCR18650GA *with clear wrap into:
> 
> H600w - does not fit
> SC600w II - fits fine
> SC600w III - barely fits...won't "fall" in so I have to push it. Then I need to shake it out.
> SC62w - only fits half way, but if I "scratch" the wrapper with scissors, but without cutting it, that TINY reduction allows it to slide in.
> 
> So this is highly dependent on the thickness of the wrapper too. Another example:
> 
> 2 out of 3 NCR18650B from mtn electronics did not fit H600w
> 2 out of 2 NCR18650B from Fasttech did fit H600w
> 
> Same cells, same "batches", same everything. The tiniest variation of wrap can cause a problem. I actually removed the wrap and re-wrapped; all cells work now.



Thank you. I posted in the other SC600 MkIII thread as it seemed more specific to the light.

I'm less than impressed with this battery lottery situation. Having stocked on NCRs, and just breaking into the vape scene, I thought I was done with researching 18650s for a bit. At least with your info I can just order a couple of cells that will fit.


----------



## simba23

Vaping what?


----------



## Nice65

simba23 said:


> Vaping what?



:laughing:

Sigelei 150W TC, Herakles Plus tank, Blueberry Ice Cream. New Year is combustion free


----------



## simba23

Guys. Santa 🎅 has been good this Christmas. I've received my mkiii (no battery though :S) and wow, is it ever BRIGHT! 🔆 I don't even need to use a multimeter to tell that it's definitely over 1300 lumens! If anything, the Lumens is underrated. I would say zebralight struck a home run with this light! 🔦 

Tint: the thing that you've all been wondering about... It's GOOD tint. I'd say it's quite accurate, about 5300-5700K. It's very white and has a well balanced center spot, that transitions well with the flood. I don't see any green to the tint, even at low power.

Rattle: none to be found. I'm currently using an old 18650 unprotected cell I had lying around. Dead silent. It was seriously a perfect fit. I'm still waiting for my LG18650GA's to come. 

Size: I don't think I have gigantic hands, but this thing is tiny! It's seriously such a wonder how they can design such a bright torch in such a minature body. It's now my edc, I can definitely bring this anywhere! 

Quality: the light is of very high quality. The annodization is done very well, and it looks like it'll hold up well... I shall see over time. 

I'm very pleased with this torch and it will replace all my other lights now. ☺


----------



## snowlover91

simba23 said:


> Guys. Santa  has been good this Christmas. I've received my mkiii (no battery though :S) and wow, is it ever BRIGHT!  I don't even need to use a multimeter to tell that it's definitely over 1300 lumens! If anything, the Lumens is underrated. I would say zebralight struck a home run with this light! 
> 
> Tint: the thing that you've all been wondering about... It's GOOD tint. I'd say it's quite accurate, about 5300-5700K. It's very white and has a well balanced center spot, that transitions well with the flood. I don't see any green to the tint, even at low power.
> 
> Rattle: none to be found. I'm currently using an old 18650 unprotected cell I had lying around. Dead silent. It was seriously a perfect fit. I'm still waiting for my LG18650GA's to come.
> 
> Size: I don't think I have gigantic hands, but this thing is tiny! It's seriously such a wonder how they can design such a bright torch in such a minature body. It's now my edc, I can definitely bring this anywhere!
> 
> Quality: the light is of very high quality. The annodization is done very well, and it looks like it'll hold up well... I shall see over time.
> 
> I'm very pleased with this torch and it will replace all my other lights now. ☺



Awesome thanks for the great report, I see many more Zebralights in your future  I'm looking at getting the CW version when they release it for the SC63 as the warmer tint compared to most CW lights would be preferable, who knows I might get both the CW and NW versions. It is amazing how small these lights are especially when more competitors lights are 4" or 4.5" with the same or less lumens.


----------



## markr6

A quick note about the rattle...I bet most people are not so picky like me, but it's not like the battery slides rattles around loose. It's more of a knocking sound against the side of the light if you tap the tailcap end against your other hand. Something I don't see in the MKII.


----------



## simba23

snowlover91 said:


> Awesome thanks for the great report, I see many more Zebralights in your future  I'm looking at getting the CW version when they release it for the SC63 as the warmer tint compared to most CW lights would be preferable, who knows I might get both the CW and NW versions. It is amazing how small these lights are especially when more competitors lights are 4" or 4.5" with the same or less lumens.



You could also say that, "my future looks BRIGHT 🔆" LOL!


----------



## sdr

simba23 said:


> Guys. Santa  has been good this Christmas. I've received my mkiii (no battery though :S) and wow, is it ever BRIGHT!
> 
> I'm very pleased with this torch and it will replace all my other lights now. ☺



Congratulations, Simba! Glad to hear that you finally got your Mk III. It sounds like you like your new light as much as I like mine. Too bad that you live in Canada and didn't get a free battery like us blokes here in the States. 

Actually, let me rephrase that. It's not too bad that you live in Canada. I think that would be a good thing. It's just too bad that ZebraLight was cautious to not send batteries to countries other than the United States and you didn't get a free battery. There, I think that's a better way to say it.

Cheers, mate! Enjoy your new light!


----------



## sidecross

sdr said:


> Congratulations, Simba! Glad to hear that you finally got your Mk III. It sounds like you like your new light as much as I like mine. Too bad that you live in Canada and didn't get a free battery like us blokes here in the States.
> 
> Actually, let me rephrase that. It's not too bad that you live in Canada. I think that would be a good thing. It's just too bad that ZebraLight was cautious to not send batteries to countries other than the United States and you didn't get a free battery. There, I think that's a better way to say it.
> 
> Cheers, mate! Enjoy your new light!


There are many good reasons to live in Canada!


----------



## sdr

sidecross said:


> There are many good reasons to live in Canada!



Indeed, there are many good reasons for living in Canada! I love Canada and its people! Back bacon, eh! Stanley Park, yo! And now Simba will be able to see all of those reasons just a tad better with his new ZebraLight Mk III...especially at night. *wink*


----------



## simba23

Haha thanks guys! Living in Canada IS awesome! I love this country!


----------



## jhe888

I like living in Texas, but I'd move to Canada if I could get my 600MkIII now.


----------



## simba23

jhe888 said:


> I like living in Texas, but I'd move to Canada if I could get my 600MkIII now.



Come on over, we have some pretty nice beef (from Alberta) too!


----------



## InspectHerGadget

I got my light last week. It is a nice little light, noticeably smaller than the Mark 2. The battery does rattle, as expected, but if I hadn't read about it on the forum, I probably wouldn't have noticed. The beam is nice (CW).

The only issue is no holster for it. A clip is pretty useless as it isn't secure enough on my belt and it is much harder to get it on and off than if it were in a holster. It seems a missed business opportunity not to supply a holster as an accessory. For my Mark 2 I just ordered a few cheap nylon holsters and got my wife to stitch it up more securely as the stitching is crap.

If anyone has any ideas on a holster it would be appreciated. I live here in Perth, Western Australia.


----------



## markr6

InspectHerGadget said:


> If anyone has any ideas on a holster it would be appreciated. I live here in Perth, Western Australia.



Here's a MKII stuffed into a cheap Jetbeam holster available at Fasttech for under $3. Not the best if you're taking it in and out often. I use it more for a protective cover when in a bag. The clip/body gets caught a little on the side elastic part.


----------



## giga20

How is the brightness and runtime compared to the MKII?


----------



## softsorter

markr6 said:


> Here's a MKII stuffed into a cheap Jetbeam holster available at Fasttech for under $3. Not the best if you're taking it in and out often. I use it more for a protective cover when in a bag. The clip/body gets caught a little on the side elastic part.



Just ordered one of those Jetbeam Holsters for my SC600 MKII, been looking for one thanks


----------



## sidecross

I found the Nitecore pouch for MH20 fits Zebralight SC600 Mkll or Mklll fit very well, and an eve better solution might be a Maxpedition Gear 4-Inch Flashlight Sheath.


----------



## jhe888

Oh, joy!

I just got the e-mail that my light has been mailed. Since Irving is a mere 250 miles away, it might even arrive before the New Year's holiday!

They predicted they wouldn't be able to mail it until next year, so this is earlier than expected.


----------



## simba23

sidecross said:


> I found the Nitecore pouch for MH20 fits Zebralight SC600 Mkll or Mklll fit very well, and an eve better solution might be a Maxpedition Gear 4-Inch Flashlight Sheath.



Lol, you bought an MH20 and this one?


----------



## sidecross

simba23 said:


> Lol, you bought an MH20 and this one?


I did, but the MH20 I just gave to my brother. :thumbsup:


----------



## gottawearshades

Can anybody who now owns both say how the reach of the Mk III compares to the MkII? Thanks to the beta testers!


----------



## simba23

sidecross said:


> I did, but the MH20 I just gave to my brother. :thumbsup:



Good to know you gave up the mh20. I was considering buying that one... Then I found out about the mkiii!


----------



## sidecross

simba23 said:


> Good to know you gave up the mh20. I was considering buying that one... Then I found out about the mkiii!


The Nitcore MH20 is not as developed as the Mkll or Mklll and was weighted too much in the head. It is a very good light, but the Zebralight is, to my mind, a better design.



I even replaced my Eagletac D25C Clicky with a Zebralight SC32 CR123.


----------



## snowlover91

sidecross said:


> The Nitcore MH20 is not as developed as the Mkll or Mklll and was weighted too much in the head. It is a very good light, but the Zebralight is, to my mind, a better design.
> 
> I have the MKll version because it can use CR123a batteries on low power, in an emergency, unlike the Mklll which is limited to 65mm 18650 batteries.
> 
> *I even replaced my Eagletac D25C Clicky with a Zebralight SC32 CR123.*



Agree 100% with the bolded part! I don't like lights which the head has to be loosened or tightened to get different mode groups or ones in which you have to cycle through all the levels to get to the ones you want. The great part about the ZL UI is from off I can instantly access low, medium or high modes whenever I want without needing to remember to loosen/tighten the head or waste time clicking to cycle through modes. Strobe is hidden the way it should be on an EDC light but quickly accessible if needed. I can also double click at any level to get a second LMH option. The ZL UI is what makes them my favorite modern day EDC light (Nitecore D10 my old time favorite) and is tough to beat. Eagletac makes nice lights but I hate the UI.


----------



## sidecross

snowlover91 said:


> Agree 100% with the bolded part! I don't like lights which the head has to be loosened or tightened to get different mode groups or ones in which you have to cycle through all the levels to get to the ones you want. The great part about the ZL UI is from off I can instantly access low, medium or high modes whenever I want without needing to remember to loosen/tighten the head or waste time clicking to cycle through modes. Strobe is hidden the way it should be on an EDC light but quickly accessible if needed. I can also double click at any level to get a second LMH option. The ZL UI is what makes them my favorite modern day EDC light (Nitecore D10 my old time favorite) and is tough to beat. Eagletac makes nice lights but I hate the UI.


"I have the MKll version because it can use CR123a batteries on low power, in an emergency, unlike the Mklll which is limited to 65mm 18650 batteries." 

This was removed from my statement because it was written in error. The Zebralight H600Fd III High CRI Floody Neutral White 18650 Headlamp is light that has an Operating Voltage Range: 2.7V - 6.0V and NOT the SC600 Mkll.


----------



## simba23

Took a shower with my mkiii with it on high mode. It handled it like a champ, no noticeable dimming during. It got quite warm tho at the head, but completely holdable on the body.


----------



## InspectHerGadget

Wow, that is real gadget love. Impressed.


----------



## markr6

HAHA I'm guilty of that too. No leaks so far in several of my Zebralights. I don't take waterproofness too seriously though since I'm never in much rain. Maybe while running, but even then it's never a downpour. Dropping it in a river? Just doesn't happen enough to worry. But it's good to know they can handle it.


----------



## Glock27

Well I got my MKIII the day after Christmas. It is a lot shorter than the Original version! The w version has a nice tint, efficiency is great, anodizing is perfect (until you put the clip on)........but is doesn't come close to the 62 for edc. While it is a tiny bit shorter than a 62, it is much fatter. I like the clip for the 62 much better too. 
I would trade my new 600w Mk3 for a 62w. PM if interested. 

G27


----------



## recDNA

I prefer a screw on clip like sc62w


----------



## scs

recDNA said:


> I prefer a screw on clip like sc62w



Speaking of the screwed on clip, has anyone had durability issues with the screws or threads for the clip? Any reason to worry that with use, the threads will eventually strip? Thanks.


----------



## jhe888

I don't have that light, but the threads won't get damaged unless 1) the screws get loose and the harder steel of the screw wallows around in the screw holes or 2) you torque them down with an air wrench. If you find the screws work themselves loose, a little low strength Loc-Tite should solve the problem.


----------



## simba23

I found out that when the battery is lowered (1 flash using the battery tester-6 presses), it steps down from high to medium after 3 - 5 seconds.


----------



## markr6

Specs are up for the MK III HI and sc63!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rvSVk8HxkkEMBjAPo_s/htmlview?authkey=CNqP6KIC


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> Specs are up for the MK III HI and sc63!
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rvSVk8HxkkEMBjAPo_s/htmlview?authkey=CNqP6KIC


I got a google docs error. Could you simply copy and paste? Thanks!


----------



## gunga

Nice. Shorter.


----------



## recDNA

Is the MKIIII Hi an XP-L HI? What led in sc63? I cannot get link to work


----------



## marinemaster

SC63W - XHP35

SC600W Mk III HI - XHP35 HI


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Is the MKIIII Hi an XP-L HI? What led in sc63? I cannot get link to work



SC62 is 3.8" long, 1.4oz and 1000 lumens CW, 930 NW. 

SC63 is 3.64" long, 1.3oz., xhp35 and 1300 lumens CW, 1126 NW. Probably exact same driver as mk3. More efficient too with 7 months at .01 lumen level vs 5.5 months rating for sc62.


----------



## recDNA

Thanks for the info. Was hoping for XP-L HI.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Thanks for the info. Was hoping for XP-L HI.



The XHP35 is actually a much more efficient LED and has 90+ cri options available. It's possible that in replacing the discontinued SC62d that ZL makes an updated version with a 90+ CRI emitter putting out 900-1k lumens. I certainly would buy one or two if they do that.


----------



## sdr

*****This is a Copy & Paste from ZL's website for those of you who are having problems with the link that Mark posted. Enjoy...
**(**Utilize scroll bar at bottom to view entire chart**)


*
ZebraLight Product Comparison : Sheet1


ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST1ModelMSRPBatteryLEDTypical CRINorminal CCTBeam TypeModels w/ Similar Beam ProfileModesANSI OTF Max OutputANSI OTF Low OutputBezel DiameterLengthWeightReleasedNotes2(USD)AACR12318650(Kelvin)(Lumens)(hrs)(Lumens)(hrs)(Inch)(Inch)(oz)3SC Series Side Clicky Flashlight4SC600w Mk III HI951Cree XHP35 HI804500spill + spot151126PID0.017 mo1.23.82.3512/ 20155SC63851Cree XHP35705700spill + spotSC62, H600151300PID0.017 mo0.963.641.312/ 20156SC63w851Cree XHP35804500spill + spot151126PID0.017 mo0.963.641.312/ 20157SC600w Mk III951Cree XHP35804500spill + spotSC600 I & II151126PID0.017 mo1.23.82.3510/ 20158SC600 Mk III951Cree XHP35705700spill + spot151300PID0.017 mo1.23.82.3510/ 20159SC5 OP691Cree XM-L2656300spill + spot135350.80.14 mo13.228/2015world's first 1Eneloop flashlight to output >500Lm. Orange Peel reflector10SC5w OP691Cree XM-L2754400spill + spot135000.80.14 mo13.228/201511SC5Fd691Cree XM-L283-855000Floody133750.80.074 mo13.228/6/2015Individually measured OTF chromaticity to be within an area that's less than half (on the CIE 1931 curve) of the LUXEON T we use, to achieve the industry's smallest tint variations.12SC5Fc691Cree XM-L283-854000Floody133750.80.074 mo13.228/6/201513SC5F691Cree XM-L2656300Floody135080.80.14 mo13.227/24/201514SC5Fw691Cree XM-L2754400Floody134750.80.14 mo13.227/24/201515SC32641Cree XM-L2656300spill + spotSC52, SC62, H60014480PID0.013 mo0.92.61.341/201516SC32w641Cree XM-L2754400spill + spotSC52, SC62, H60014446PID0.013 mo0.92.61.341/201517SC52d591Philips LUXEON T855000spill + spotSC62c, SC62d122050.90.013 mo0.933.11.48/26/20144/12/2015 price lowered to $5918SC52F L2591Cree XM-L2656300Floody112850.90.013 mo0.933.11.46/2014with frosted lens, 4/12/2015 price lowered to $59 with the introduction of the SC519SC52Fw L2591Cree XM-L2754400Floody112460.90.013 mo0.933.11.46/201420SC52 L2591Cree XM-L2656300spill + spotSC62, H600, H32113000.90.013 mo0.933.11.42/20144/12/2015 price lowered to $59 with the introduction of the SC521SC52w L2591Cree XM-L2754400spill + spotSC62, H600, H32112800.90.013 mo0.933.11.42/201422H Series Headlamp Angle Light23H603d891Cree XM-L283-855000FloodH602, H302151/ 201624H603c891Cree XM-L283-854000FloodH602, H302151/ 201625H502g691Cree XP-EGreenFlood111600.90.013 mo0.842.7611/ 2016wavelength: 520-535nm


----------



## awkwardPause

Awesome, thanks for the spec sheet. I'm excited to see this thing get out there in the wild. 
Looking over this, though, specs are essentially the same for SC63 and MKIII and I'm wonder what the draw will be for the MKIII due to it's larger dimensions? :thinking:

Assuming it would be better heat sinking capabilities?


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

SC63 has same max output as SC600 MKiii. SC63 has not increased width, still EDC champ. SC63 significantly shorter than MKiii (which in turn was shorter than SC62 due to ZL wizardry). Wow.


----------



## simba23

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> SC63 has same max output as SC600 MKiii. SC63 has not increased width, still EDC champ. SC63 significantly shorter than MKiii (which in turn was shorter than SC62 due to ZL wizardry). Wow.



Damn, should I have gotten the 63 then? I want the smallest, yet brightest light. What are the benefits of the mkiii over the 63? More flood and better cooling?


----------



## snowlover91

simba23 said:


> Damn, should I have gotten the 63 then? I want the smallest, yet brightest light. What are the benefits of the mkiii over the 63? More flood and better cooling?



Mk3 has more throw and more surface area for heatsinking. SC63 would likely heat up a little quicker due to smaller size and be more floody, slightly smaller. Otherwise about the same. Still waiting to see pics, will they use the same style as the SC62 or change it up?


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

If you want to actually _use_ the highest mode for longer than brief stretches, the MKiii is better. But I wouldn't consider either of them for too long a high - for that you need more mass in the body.


----------



## snowlover91

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> If you want to actually _use_ the highest mode for longer than brief stretches, the MKiii is better. But I wouldn't consider either of them for too long a high - for that you need more mass in the body.



Theyre actually both designed to run at the turbo for as long as needed, or until the battery no longer can support it. The PID does an excellent job controlling the temp and the head fins maximize cooling efficiency. The xhp35 also puts off much less heat when driven to the same lumen output as the previous XM-L2, so heat management should be about the same or slightly improved even.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

The 1300 level runs with PID for 2.2h, and the 670 level runs with PID for 2.8h. To me, this says that the output on H1 levels down very quickly. Aren't there similar numbers, with similar conclusions, for the other models?


----------



## snowlover91

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> The 1300 level runs with PID for 2.2h, and the 670 level runs with PID for 2.8h. To me, this says that the output on H1 levels down very quickly. Aren't there similar numbers, with similar conclusions, for the other models?



Its thermally regulated based off the surrounding conditions (airflow, ambient temp, etc). For example in Selfbuilts tests it does lower output some after a few mins but it's not much. He then tests it by blowing a fan on the light and the output goes back up to where it started. Basically you get the highest possible output based on the conditions the light is exposed to at the time of us. If used when there is any air circulation it will stay near max brightness until the battery depletes. If in a hot area with no air circulation it will gradually lower the output more. In cold climates it will stay at max until the battery gives out. They're designed with the PID regulation to keep the output as high as possible without damaging the LED or getting too hot to hold; a great feature if turbo is used frequently for long periods. I hope that makes sense? 

That's one reason I like the Zebralights so much. When I use turbo I don't want timed step downs like most other companies use. I want the max brightness possible based upon the current conditions and to keep the LED under the critical junction temp (at which output begins to fade with time as the LED is damaged). The only other company I'm aware of using similar technology is Nitecore with their advanced thermal regulation (ATR). They only recently began incorporating this into their lights while ZL has had the PID in theirs for awhile. Check out a few of Selfbuilts reviews on ZL and you'll see the tests of the PID and how it works.


----------



## snowlover91

Here is a link to his SC62 review. Near the end of the review he shows a few SC62 graphs with and without cooling to demonstrate the PID in action. I expect the SC63 to be similar but with slightly better efficiency/less output drop.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...650)-review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-VIDEO-and-more!


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

"Highest output possible", given the significant design constraints. I do understand PID, you're right that it's better than timed step down. But when the size is so small ("I want the smallest and brightest light" is a pretty common refrain), with the lack of mass you'll eventually have to pay the piper. PID only delays it, you still have to pay.


----------



## swan

The SC600 weighs in at 2.35 oz and SC63 weighs in at 1.30 oz=

With greater thermal mass the sc600 should run at higher output for longer.

Interestingly the sc 5 is heavier than the sc 63.


----------



## awkwardPause

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> "Highest output possible", given the significant design constraints. I do understand PID, you're right that it's better than timed step down. But when the size is so small ("I want the smallest and brightest light" is a pretty common refrain), with the lack of mass you'll eventually have to pay the piper. PID only delays it, you still have to pay.



My understanding is the "paying the piper" is just a fact of life considering the recent advancements in LED technology being crammed into this small of unit. Heat is heat and has to be dealt with in some way, so I honestly can't see this as a negative just yet, unless better technology or methods prove otherwise. Personally, I would rather have a more adaptable (PID) method of pushing performance than the alternative timed step downs. :shrug:


----------



## Mr Floppy

snowlover91 said:


> The only other company I'm aware of using similar technology is Nitecore with their advanced thermal regulation (ATR).



Thrunite has a form of thermal regulation as well.


----------



## snowlover91

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> "Highest output possible", given the significant design constraints. I do understand PID, you're right that it's better than timed step down. But when the size is so small ("I want the smallest and brightest light" is a pretty common refrain), with the lack of mass you'll eventually have to pay the piper. PID only delays it, you still have to pay.



It really depends on the environment and time of year. If one lives in a cold climate and/or there is good air circulation then runtime will be shorter with very little step down. If in a hot climate it will be much more noticeable especially in a stagnant air mass. However the notion that some have proposed of not running it on PID for long is incorrect, which is what I was addressing specifically. These lights are designed to run at the turbo for as long as needed or until the battery gives out. It won't hurt the light or the LED at all  Yes the PID will step it down some but as I mentioned above in a cold climate or somewhere with good air circulation the drop in output will be minimal. Much better than a timed step down which is always the same no matter the conditions. 

Swan, yes the SC600 does allow for higher output for longer as confirmed in Selfbuilts reviews! The SC5 seems to have either more heatsinking in the head or a thicker tube, not sure which but it's probably to compensate for the extra heat generated by the boost circuit pulling so many amps to get 500+ lumens. I'm ready to see some SC63 pics and preorders up on Zebralights website, I think I may try the CW version.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Sure, they will run at the H1 _level_ for as long as you like. But not only will they heat up beyond some users' comfort, the output will correspondingly decrease. If your use is in the cold, or well-ventilated (bike light!), yes that is much better.


----------



## snowlover91

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Sure, they will run at the H1 _level_ for as long as you like. But not only will they heat up beyond some users' comfort, the output will correspondingly decrease. If your use is in the cold, or well-ventilated (bike light!), yes that is much better.



Agreed some may not be able to handle it but for me personally I can run H1 for as long as I like no issues whatsoever. The light itself certainly is capable of running as long as a person wants at H1 without risking damage to the light or LED. In most real world uses the presence of a persons hand and/or slight breezes will keep it from lowering much in output. I imagine it would make an excellent bike light also!


----------



## scs

simba23 said:


> Took a shower with my mkiii with it on high mode. It handled it like a champ, no noticeable dimming during. It got quite warm tho at the head, but completely holdable on the body.



Hahaha. I just dunk my lights into a bucket with 18" of cold water to make sure that their makers ain't citing temperature step down to mask not having a boost circuit.

Any change in output might have been too gradual for you to detect without a lux meter.


----------



## fnsooner

To me, the most glaring thing on the Zebralight Product Comparison list is that the SC62 has been moved to the Discontinued Product list. It was expected but seeing it there is sad.


----------



## markr6

I'm glad now that I sold my MKIII for the upcoming SC63. If the thing ends up not shedding heat enough, i.e. worse than the SC62, then I lost. But I doubt that. Really excited to see the photos soon!!


----------



## fnsooner

Photos, me want.


----------



## recDNA

snowlover91 said:


> The XHP35 is actually a much more efficient LED and has 90+ cri options available. It's possible that in replacing the discontinued SC62d that ZL makes an updated version with a 90+ CRI emitter putting out 900-1k lumens. I certainly would buy one or two if they do that.


Nah. I want more throw


----------



## ateupwithgolf

what is the lastest info on ordering for the sc63w? thanks.


----------



## rockminer

Really looking forward to these new lights. I've held off buying the 62 just to see what the 63 offers.


----------



## fnsooner

They're not up on Zebralight's website yet. So, no go at the moment.

If history tells us anything, they will be available for preorder and then we will get them in a month or so. When will they be available for preorder? Any day now we hope.


----------



## fnsooner

I know this is Zebralight that we are talking about, but they did update their Google's document within the last day and the release date is still 12/15. I wonder if it is too much to expect for the pre-orders and pics to go up today.


----------



## markr6

They often seem to announce/release things on Fridays. I don't know what the significance is there. Maybe we'll see something even though it is new years day.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> Nah. I want more throw



SC63...nope
SC600 III HI...yes (or at least as much _throw _as you can get out of that little light)


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> SC63...nope
> SC600 III HI...yes (or at least as much _throw _as you can get out of that little light)


More from xpl hi


----------



## gottawearshades

Interesting. Thanks. The Mk.III HI is NW. Wonder if that's because it's a de-domed XHP35, or they only sourced NW emitters. 



markr6 said:


> Specs are up for the MK III HI and sc63!
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...rvSVk8HxkkEMBjAPo_s/htmlview?authkey=CNqP6KIC


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> More from xpl hi



I wonder if they tried both and didn't notice enough difference? Or they wanted to keep the XHP consistency for some reason?


----------



## gottawearshades

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? 



gottawearshades said:


> Can anybody who now owns both say how the reach of the Mk III compares to the MkII? Thanks to the beta testers!


----------



## markr6

gottawearshades said:


> Interesting. Thanks. The Mk.III HI is NW. Wonder if that's because it's a de-domed XHP35, or they only sourced NW emitters.



They've been launching NW versions _first _lately, which is different. Maybe that will just be the norm now. I doubt it's actually dedomed when they can source the HI to begin with. Well, Olight...

XHP35, 5000K, 90CRI. Yes please! Unfortunately, I must prepare myself for bottom-of-the-barrel low CRI green crap so I'm not disappointed


----------



## recDNA

IF they guarantee 90+ CRI I will buy yet another light I do not need. Sc63w still requires unprotected battery like mark III?


----------



## markr6

*III HI and SC63 on website. Not available for preorder yet...*

Jan 31 ship date 

No image yet for 63...

p.s. they got rid of the *T60 *tail clicky models on the spreadsheet. Not surprised.


----------



## twistedraven

Ugh why does Zebralight never publish lux numbers on their website. What is the purpose of showing a HI version without telling us how much more it can throw?


----------



## awkwardPause

So how does this work? Pre-order is up but still says out of stock. Bleh. I got hyped for a moment.


----------



## fnsooner

Dang, I was wishing the pre-orders would have been available by today. If I could have pre-ordered the SC63w and the SC600 MK III HI today, I think I could have gone very far into 2016 and be able to make the statement “I haven’t bought a flashlight all year.”


----------



## sdr

markr6 said:


> p.s. they got rid of the *T60 *tail clicky models on the spreadsheet. Not surprised.



A Tail Switch on a ZebraLight flashlight would be like a Thumb Stud on a Spyderco knife. A *FAIL* in my opinion! I won't be shedding any tears over this announcement.


----------



## rockminer

I don't know, I think a 63 with an option to lock/unlock a tail switch that would allow momentary only , that is programmable, would be pretty neat. I've always wanted a high output tactical and edc light in one.


----------



## snowlover91

Typical of ZL to put it up with specs but without a pic so as to make the wait even harder.. And no option to preorder yet.


----------



## simba23

Happy new year fellow flashaholics!


----------



## sdr

simba23 said:


> Happy new year fellow flashaholics!



Back at ya, Simba ~ Happy New Year!


----------



## Joys_R_us

Mk III Hi has the same lumen as Mk III ? So why is it "Hi". It ich s green but is no joint :laughing:


----------



## Joys_R_us

Mk III Hi has the same lumen as Mk III ? So why is it "Hi". It is green but is no joint :laughing:


----------



## snowlover91

Joys_R_us said:


> Mk III Hi has the same lumen as Mk III ? So why is it "Hi". It is green but is no joint :laughing:



The HI is a dedomed emitter which can significantly increase throw.


----------



## viciousLUX

Just pre ordered sc63w, now just have to wait at least one and a half month:sigh:


----------



## snowlover91

Preordered the SC63w and MK3 HI.. I couldn't resist had to get both. That should be it for awhile.. I hope. Probably mid-February on receiving this, I'm hoping to get a free battery with each one since I live in the US. If I really like the SC63w I'll probably sell my SC62w to recover some funds. I'm ready to see pictures of the SC63, ZL loves to keep us in suspense!


----------



## Fiskar

InspectHerGadget said:


> I got my light last week. It is a nice little light, noticeably smaller than the Mark 2. The battery does rattle, as expected, but if I hadn't read about it on the forum, I probably wouldn't have noticed. The beam is nice (CW).
> 
> The only issue is no holster for it. A clip is pretty useless as it isn't secure enough on my belt and it is much harder to get it on and off than if it were in a holster. It seems a missed business opportunity not to supply a holster as an accessory. For my Mark 2 I just ordered a few cheap nylon holsters and got my wife to stitch it up more securely as the stitching is crap.
> 
> If anyone has any ideas on a holster it would be appreciated. I live here in Perth, Western Australia.


use one of these for my new Zebralight, works perfectly

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005190/1409110-ultrafire-nylon-flashlight-holster-black


----------



## JKolmo

SC 63w preordered. Cross my fingers for a non-green ticket in the lottery.


----------



## CM2010

How does the HI version differ?


----------



## fnsooner

Well, it is a brand new year and I just bought a couple of flashlights. What’s new? 

Can’t wait to see how the new SC63w and SC600w HI perform. Tint being my main concern.

I went a couple of years where all I bought were Zebralights. 2015 was my year for updating my other lights, e.g., thrower, soup cans, etc. Five hours into 2016 I am back to ZL.:thumbsup:

I can't believe that I just pre-ordered a flashlight and I don't even know what it looks like. :shakehead Maybe they will get pics up today.


----------



## henry1960

fnsooner said:


> Well, it is a brand new year and I just bought a couple of flashlights. What’s new?
> 
> Can’t wait to see how the new SC63w and SC600w HI perform. Tint being my main concern.
> 
> I went a couple of years where all I bought were Zebralights. 2015 was my year for updating my other lights, e.g., thrower, soup cans, etc. Five hours into 2016 I am back to ZL.:thumbsup:
> 
> I can't believe that I just pre-ordered a flashlight and I don't even know what it looks like. :shakehead Maybe they will get pics up today.



Just Ordered The SC63W Myself...You Know All Zebra Lights Look Good!!


----------



## twistedraven

snowlover91 said:


> The HI is a dedomed emitter which can significantly increase throw.




And they put it inside an orange peel reflector. Oh Zebralight.


----------



## snowlover91

twistedraven said:


> And they put it inside an orange peel reflector. Oh Zebralight.



From what I've heard the XHP35 is actually 4 small die's put together. There is a tiny gap between them and I believe if a smooth reflector is used it would show more of a donut pattern on a wall due to this, similar to the xhp50 but smaller gaps between the 4 dies. If this is true that would explain the use of an OP reflector. I believe Selfbuilt tested the MK2 version as putting out 12 or 14k in throw, I would expect to see maybe 20-23k from this new version due to the new HI emitter.


----------



## snowlover91

I also emailed ZL to see what their plans are for a high CRI SC63, I'll let everyone know what they say but it probably won't be until next week. I preordered a light that I don't even know what it looks like lol, I've got it bad!


----------



## ateupwithgolf

I've only had my SC62 for a week and I love it, so naturally I just preordered the SC63w! 

This is is my first EDC, I've got a tm26, but there is something about having such a little beast in your pocket all the time at the ready. I keep my hand in my pocket a lot because I like the feel of the ridges. Hope they keep them in the new one.


----------



## JKolmo

snowlover91 said:


> I also emailed ZL to see what their plans are for a high CRI SC63, I'll let everyone know what they say but it probably won't be until next week. I preordered a light that I don't even know what it looks like lol, I've got it bad!



Thanks Snowlover91, keep us posted!


----------



## twistedraven

snowlover91 said:


> I also emailed ZL to see what their plans are for a high CRI SC63, I'll let everyone know what they say but it probably won't be until next week. I preordered a light that I don't even know what it looks like lol, I've got it bad!




The XHP35 is 4 dies yes, but each of the 4 dies butt up against each other to form one large die. If you look at it closely in a moonlight mode, you can see the cross pattern on the emitter itself, but I don't think it's large enough to cause any noticeable beam artifacts. At the end of the day I just think it makes sense to use a completely smooth reflector with a HI emitter if one wants to maximize throw. I really don't think ZL is differing this light enough from the other MK3s.


----------



## snowlover91

twistedraven said:


> The XHP35 is 4 dies yes, but each of the 4 dies butt up against each other to form one large die. If you look at it closely in a moonlight mode, you can see the cross pattern on the emitter itself, but I don't think it's large enough to cause any noticeable beam artifacts. At the end of the day I just think it makes sense to use a completely smooth reflector with a HI emitter if one wants to maximize throw. I really don't think ZL is differing this light enough from the other MK3s.



Ive read a few reports of people who used the XHP35 in some custom lights and at close ranges they reported it was noticeable, I'll try to dig up a thread but I do remember reading it awhile back when researching it. I don't have any lights with the XHP35 and haven't tested it so I can't say for sure, it's just all speculation from what I've read and heard. The good news is it will put out more lumens while having about the same, or less, heat output due to the more efficient emitter. I hope they put some pics up today lol.


----------



## markr6

Not sure what to do about the preorder. I'd really like to see a photo to make sure they didn't do something totally new and stupid with the body/clip. You never know. I don't want to end up with a flaming bag of poo.


----------



## fnsooner

There is plenty of time to decide if you want to pre-order. Me, I think I have a handle on what the SC600 MK III HI offers and I will purchase an SC63w on blind faith of Zebralight. So, I decided to get my pre-ordering behind me. 

I don’t think waiting for pics will cause you to miss out on the first batch. Of course that is easy for me to say. I’m in, in, in.


----------



## markr6

markr6 said:


> They often seem to announce/release things on Fridays. I don't know what the significance is there. Maybe we'll see something even though it is new years day.



_*BOOM!*_


----------



## snowlover91

twistedraven said:


> The XHP35 is 4 dies yes, but each of the 4 dies butt up against each other to form one large die. If you look at it closely in a moonlight mode, you can see the cross pattern on the emitter itself, but I don't think it's large enough to cause any noticeable beam artifacts. At the end of the day I just think it makes sense to use a completely smooth reflector with a HI emitter if one wants to maximize throw. I really don't think ZL is differing this light enough from the other MK3s.



I was finally able to find a pic comparing a dedomed XM-L2 with the XHP35 HI. It does have the 4 dies but apparently doesn't affect the beam pattern, so you are correct! Has anyone with the MK3 preordered the HI version? I don't have an MK3 so I won't be able to compare but I'm excited to get the HI version and the SC63w, even though I have no clue what it looks like.


----------



## InspectHerGadget

Fiskar said:


> use one of these for my new Zebralight, works perfectly
> 
> https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005190/1409110-ultrafire-nylon-flashlight-holster-black



Thanks for the advice and to others who helped. I got a sheath from a local store and I am happy with that. I emailed ZL and suggested a leather and a utility sheath with branding would be good business and keep users happy.


----------



## holygeez03

Which dimensions did you order for the sheath?


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: very picky on battery length*



sdr said:


> Hmm? Sorry to hear that you're experiencing this difficulty. I'm using an NCR18650GA - not the one that came with the light but rather one that was purchased in advance - and I'm not experiencing this problem. Or, at least, I haven't yet.
> 
> Note: Out of curiosity I just tried an NCR18650B and attempted to induce the flickering that you've described. I'm happy to report that my light held steady and did not flicker. I cannot comment on the possibility of this happening with a depleted charge. But in light of what I have experienced thus far it seems unlikely. Hopefully the NCR18650GA will remedy this problem for you? Good luck - Keep us posted!


Update: as expected, using an NCR18650GA does not solve the problem.

The light flickers on H1 when moved (not even shaken).
This only happens with near-empty (less than 30%) battery. The effect becomes more pronounced the emptier the battery gets.

With an SC62 tailcap on the MK III there is no rattle and no flickering at all. An MK II tailcap should also work. Makes me wonder why they changed the tailcap design at all.

The contact problem also has a significant effect on runtime:
With the SC62 tailcap I get 44 +/- 0.5 minutes (H1, 1126lm). With the MK III tailcap I get 32-37 minutes. (Water cooled, 4 test runs each.)

Zebralight wants me to send the light to China for repair. I'm reluctant because it will take 2 months, has the risk of the light getting lost, and maybe won't solve the problem at all.
They refused to just send me a MK II tailcap.


----------



## holygeez03

*Re: very picky on battery length*

Seems like maybe ZL should have kept the traditional spring design... more battery compatibility and less issues from rattle are way more important than a few extra lumens.


----------



## snowlover91

*Re: very picky on battery length*



light-wolff said:


> Update: as expected, using an NCR18650GA does not solve the problem.
> 
> The light flickers on H1 when moved (not even shaken).
> This only happens with near-empty (less than 30%) battery. The effect becomes more pronounced the emptier the battery gets.
> 
> With an SC62 tailcap on the MK III there is no rattle and no flickering at all. An MK II tailcap should also work. Makes me wonder why they changed the tailcap design at all.
> 
> The contact problem also has a significant effect on runtime:
> With the SC62 tailcap I get 44 +/- 0.5 minutes (H1, 1126lm). With the MK III tailcap I get 32-37 minutes. (Water cooled, 4 test runs each.)
> 
> Zebralight wants me to send the light to China for repair. I'm reluctant because it will take 2 months, has the risk of the light getting lost, and maybe won't solve the problem at all.
> They refused to just send me a MK II tailcap.



I believe under warranty you should be able to send it back and either get a replacement or refund? Have you explored these options? I actually like the new tailcap design, once they get the variances worked out it will be better imo. It makes it easier to screw the tailcap on since you're not compressing a spring and trying to screw it on at the same time, one feature I love with my SC5 lights. Hopefully their second batch of lights has this issue corrected. They probably wouldn't send a MK2 tailcap because the spring could compress the battery enough to break the circuit board on the MK3 since it's not designed for it.


----------



## sidecross

*Re: very picky on battery length*



light-wolff said:


> Update: as expected, using an NCR18650GA does not solve the problem.
> 
> The light flickers on H1 when moved (not even shaken).
> This only happens with near-empty (less than 30%) battery. The effect becomes more pronounced the emptier the battery gets.
> 
> With an SC62 tailcap on the MK III there is no rattle and no flickering at all. An MK II tailcap should also work. Makes me wonder why they changed the tailcap design at all.
> 
> The contact problem also has a significant effect on runtime:
> With the SC62 tailcap I get 44 +/- 0.5 minutes (H1, 1126lm). With the MK III tailcap I get 32-37 minutes. (Water cooled, 4 test runs each.)
> 
> Zebralight wants me to send the light to China for repair. I'm reluctant because it will take 2 months, has the risk of the light getting lost, and maybe won't solve the problem at all.
> They refused to just send me a MK II tailcap.


This is the reason I ordered the Zebralight SC600 Mkll; I did not like the further restrictions on battery maximum height of 65.0mm on the Mklll.

The reduction in height and extra ouput of the XHP35 was not an improvement for me. As I have written else where I have this past year began using two Zebralights as EDC and I like what they previous have done; I hope they solve these new design problems.


----------



## geokite

*Re: very picky on battery length*



holygeez03 said:


> Seems like maybe ZL should have kept the traditional spring design... more battery compatibility and less issues from rattle are way more important than a few extra lumens.



Fully agreed. Having quite a few ZL lights, I see no reason to buy into this just to save a couple of mm in length. 

Steve


----------



## snowlover91

*Re: very picky on battery length*

It looks like they do plan some high CRI options for the SC63! :thumbsup:
"SC63Fc and SC63Fd are planned, but won't be announced until we have enough production capacity ('c' and 'd' models are very time consuming production wise because we are 'cherry-picking' the LEDs). 

XHP35 based SC63c and SC63d are planned, but won't be announced until we can source the LEDs in production quantity. We'll decide if we want to continue cherry-picking the tint or not by that time."


----------



## InspectHerGadget

*Re: very picky on battery length*



geokite said:


> Fully agreed. Having quite a few ZL lights, I see no reason to buy into this just to save a couple of mm in length.
> 
> Steve


I sort of agree with you but I think iPad. They are just trying to provide more power in an even smaller package. The idea of a hellishly bright light in a small package is always appealing. The 18650 has been *******ized endlessly so much so that you need a number of different cells to cover all the requirements of different devices. The latest changes just makes this worse. The rattle issue I have to admit doesn't bother me but it could be a downside to some. The SC600 Mk 2/3 are awesome lights.


----------



## Mr Floppy

markr6 said:


> _*BOOM!*_



Stalker!


----------



## waxing twilight

Anyone notice any difference in throw between the SC600 mkII and mkIII?


----------



## LessDark

*Re: very picky on battery length*

Interesting. If you use the SC62 tailcap, are you able to use longer cells then such as a protected battery?




light-wolff said:


> Update: as expected, using an NCR18650GA does not solve the problem.
> 
> The light flickers on H1 when moved (not even shaken).
> This only happens with near-empty (less than 30%) battery. The effect becomes more pronounced the emptier the battery gets.
> 
> With an SC62 tailcap on the MK III there is no rattle and no flickering at all. An MK II tailcap should also work. Makes me wonder why they changed the tailcap design at all.
> 
> The contact problem also has a significant effect on runtime:
> With the SC62 tailcap I get 44 +/- 0.5 minutes (H1, 1126lm). With the MK III tailcap I get 32-37 minutes. (Water cooled, 4 test runs each.)
> 
> Zebralight wants me to send the light to China for repair. I'm reluctant because it will take 2 months, has the risk of the light getting lost, and maybe won't solve the problem at all.
> They refused to just send me a MK II tailcap.


----------



## henry1960

*Re: very picky on battery length*

I Totally Agree!!! But Why Did QC See This During Production???????


----------



## recDNA

twistedraven said:


> Ugh why does Zebralight never publish lux numbers on their website. What is the purpose of showing a HI version without telling us how much more it can throw?



They don't have an XP-L HI. The XHP HI is a flooder. The lux will still suck. I wonder how a max driven xp-e2 or xp-g2 would do with a smooth reflector.


----------



## scs

waxing twilight said:


> Anyone notice any difference in throw between the SC600 mkII and mkIII?



Selfbuilt measured the throw of the mark 2 @ 11,000 CD.
I'm guessing that of the mark 3 may be slightly higher, but under 15,000 CD.
Would be helpful if someone could post comparison beam shots.


----------



## gottawearshades

scs said:


> Selfbuilt measured the throw of the mark 2 @ 11,000 CD.
> I'm guessing that of the mark 3 may be slightly higher, but under 15,000 CD.
> Would be helpful if someone could post comparison beam shots.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> They don't have an XP-L HI. The XHP HI is a flooder. The lux will still suck. I wonder how a max driven xp-e2 or xp-g2 would do with a smooth reflector.



It definitely isn't a flooder, the HI version. More important is reflector design and size, with the same reflector but an HI emitter throw should be increased by a decent amount. It's also more lumens which helps compensate as well. Should be about 17-20k is what I'm guessing. When I get mine I have a few decent throwers to compare it with.


----------



## recDNA

snowlover91 said:


> It definitely isn't a flooder, the HI version. More important is reflector design and size, with the same reflector but an HI emitter throw should be increased by a decent amount. It's also more lumens which helps compensate as well. Should be about 17-20k is what I'm guessing. When I get mine I have a few decent throwers to compare it with.


The current Hi version is XHP not XPL. I doubt it throws anywhere near 20k


----------



## bodhran

Haven't posted in ages. Just received my mk3w and thought I would throw in my two cents. Being in the U.S. it did come with battery. Also purchased a couple NCR18650GA batteries from Zebralight as I didn't want to take a chance the batteries I have on hand didn't fit. I'm very happy with tint though it is cooler than my Mk2w. The switch depression has a more natural feel which I think is a nice improvement. The battery does rattle but I have to make an effort to do this and I don't think it will be a problem in normal use. Over all I'm very happy with this light and my Mk2 will get a much deserved retirement..*s*


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> The current Hi version is XHP not XPL. I doubt it throws anywhere near 20k



Thats all speculation though, the XHP35 HI throws quite well from what I've seen in beam shots comparing it with other emitters. It wouldn't be hard for it to get 17-20k in throw simply due to the increased lumens and the dedomed emitter. All that I've seen from these indicate solid results in the throw department so I see no reason it couldn't pull off at least 17k in throw.


----------



## Skivvy9r

*Re: very picky on battery length*



sidecross said:


> This is the reason I ordered the Zebralight SC600 Mkll; I did not like the further restrictions on battery maximum height of 65.0mm on the Mklll.
> 
> The reduction in height and extra ouput of the XHP35 was not an improvement for me. As I have written else where I have this past year began using two Zebralights as EDC and I like what they previous have done; I hope they solve these new design problems.



Completely agree. I canceled my MkIII preorder in mid-December, tired of the wait and asked them to send a MkII. They agreed, but a week later, still hadn't shipped theMkII. So I canceled the order and bought a discounted SC600w MkII from Night Owl Gear. Feel like I made the right choice after seeing these reviews. 
I like ZL products, but I don't plan to purchase directly from them again.


----------



## snowlover91

*Re: very picky on battery length*



Skivvy9r said:


> Completely agree. I canceled my MkIII preorder in mid-December, tired of the wait and asked them to send a MkII. They agreed, but a week later, still hadn't shipped theMkII. So I canceled the order and bought a discounted SC600w MkII from Night Owl Gear. Feel like I made the right choice after seeing these reviews.
> I like ZL products, but I don't plan to purchase directly from them again.



Theyre usually pretty good with shipping stuff out, I'm sure with mid-December being a busy month leading up to Christmas that had a lot to do with the delay. I've ordered from them multiple times and always had very quick shipping, however December is a different animal. I know the shipping companies get overwhelmed, retailers are super busy, places like Amazon have to hire in ridiculous amounts of help, etc. Not saying the delay is acceptable but being December I certainly could see how it would take longer due to the heavy preorder volume for the MK3 and all that they had going on.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: very picky on battery length*

I am not a thrower guy in particular, so I haven’t been keeping up with the High Intensity variants. I looked around to see if I could find an XP-L HI to look at that might compare to the ZL. The Eagletac DX30LC2 with the XP-L HI is spec’d at 17,000 lux and 285 yards beam distance. If the ZL HI can get close to that, I will be happy.

The throw freaks that want every last drop of lux squeezed from their flashlight, and beam profile be damned, may need to look elsewhere. I think ZL is probably going for quality over quantity. If they have to give up a little lux to get a larger hotspot and quality beam profile by using the XHP35 HI and an orange peel reflector, I am tickled. 

As for the reflector, personally, I don’t care for the smooth ones. Never have. I have mentioned this a couple of times on these forums over the years. The reason I chose the Acebeam K60 was because it was one of the only throwers out there that used a dimpled reflector. I love it. 

Oddly enough, the only smooth reflectored light I own is also the only XP-L HI light I own. It is the Acebeam T20. It has a 3 inch bezel and 275,000 lux. So unless I need my most extreme thrower, I will never need to use a smooth reflector. Thanks Zebralight.

Who knows though. I can’t find any info on a one inch diameter flashlight with an XHP35 HI to read up on. Maybe with its extra lumen output it will throw as well as the XP-L HI in a similar reflector. I can’t wait to find out.


----------



## twistedraven

*Re: very picky on battery length*

Those beam artifacts are only noticeable when whitewall hunting; throwers are meant for outdoor use. All just my opinion of course.

And besides, I've had some smooth reflector lights with hardly any noticeable beam irregularities.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: very picky on battery length*

I agree twistedraven. My dislike for smooth reflectors really isn’t based on logic or real world use. It is mostly just an odd quirk to my taste in flashlights. I am not sure exactly when I picked up this disdain for smooth reflectors. Even just sitting on the kitchen table and in the off position, I don’t like them. I can’t explain it. I have no problem using a flashlight with a smooth reflector, I just don’t buy them if I can help it.:tinfoil:

I mostly brought it up as an observation and to say, that at least for me, I am glad Zebralight is using OP.


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: very picky on battery length*



LessDark said:


> Interesting. If you use the SC62 tailcap, are you able to use longer cells then such as a protected battery?


No, definitely not.

So I take it that nobody else can perceive flickering on high mode with almost depleted battery when the lamp is being moved. Lets me hope ZL can fix it when I return it.


----------



## simba23

*Re: very picky on battery length*



light-wolff said:


> No, definitely not.
> 
> So I take it that nobody else can perceive flickering on high mode with almost depleted battery when the lamp is being moved. Lets me hope ZL can fix it when I return it.



Before you send it back, try cleaning the connections on the tail cap with alcohol swabs. Squish em up and down. Alcohol works wonders.


----------



## mcantu

*Re: very picky on battery length*

I'm confused. Other than dimensions, what are the differences between the SC63w and SC600w Mk III? The ZL spec sheet shows the exact same beam and battery details for both. And for the Mk III HI, the only difference shown is a 2 degree more narrow hot spot


----------



## twistedraven

*Re: very picky on battery length*

Just size and thermal properties. Last generation was like that too.

63 series is smaller, while the 600 series is a little bigger but with same output, so it can stay in the highest turbo slightly longer before PID kicks in. I guess it also throws a little further too due to the larger reflector.


----------



## recDNA

*Re: very picky on battery length*



fnsooner said:


> I am not a thrower guy in particular, so I haven’t been keeping up with the High Intensity variants. I looked around to see if I could find an XP-L HI to look at that might compare to the ZL. The Eagletac DX30LC2 with the XP-L HI is spec’d at 17,000 lux and 285 yards beam distance. If the ZL HI can get close to that, I will be happy.
> 
> The throw freaks that want every last drop of lux squeezed from their flashlight, and beam profile be damned, may need to look elsewhere. I think ZL is probably going for quality over quantity. If they have to give up a little lux to get a larger hotspot and quality beam profile by using the XHP35 HI and an orange peel reflector, I am tickled.
> 
> As for the reflector, personally, I don’t care for the smooth ones. Never have. I have mentioned this a couple of times on these forums over the years. The reason I chose the Acebeam K60 was because it was one of the only throwers out there that used a dimpled reflector. I love it.
> 
> Oddly enough, the only smooth reflectored light I own is also the only XP-L HI light I own. It is the Acebeam T20. It has a 3 inch bezel and 275,000 lux. So unless I need my most extreme thrower, I will never need to use a smooth reflector. Thanks Zebralight.
> 
> Who knows though. I can’t find any info on a one inch diameter flashlight with an XHP35 HI to read up on. Maybe with its extra lumen output it will throw as well as the XP-L HI in a similar reflector. I can’t wait to find out.


With a small head, dimpled reflector, and big led even if it manages 15000 lux it won't look it. With lumens alone it may reach but no hotspot will be visible at distance, just huge area of diffuse light. I find a bright hotspot with less spill is better at distance. My eyes pick up the hotspot. In other words if 2 lights both have 15k cd the one with the smaller hotspot will LOOK like it throws further. I love the Zebralight UI but need a little more throw. Zebralights are not built for it. I'm not criticizing them for it. Just happens I need a pocketable thrower so I was hoping Zebralight would build one. With a huge led in a tiny head it cannot be done. I would prefer a smaller die but that's just me. I do not mean to criticize the brand. I am never without my sc62w.


----------



## snowlover91

*Re: very picky on battery length*



recDNA said:


> With a small head, dimpled reflector, and big led even if it manages 15000 lux it won't look it. With lumens alone it may reach but no hotspot will be visible at distance, just huge area of diffuse light. I find a bright hotspot with less spill is better at distance. My eyes pick up the hotspot. In other words if 2 lights both have 15k cd the one with the smaller hotspot will LOOK like it throws further. I love the Zebralight UI but need a little more throw. Zebralights are not built for it. I'm not criticizing them for it. Just happens I need a pocketable thrower so I was hoping Zebralight would build one. With a huge led in a tiny head it cannot be done. I would prefer a smaller die but that's just me. I do not mean to criticize the brand. I am never without my sc62w.



Where do you get the idea that the XHP35 HI is a huge LED?? If you look at Cree's data sheets it has the exact same die size as the XP-L HI does and the size of the emitter itself, judging by pictures, is very close. Also tests done on another forum indicate that they're very similar, the XP-L HI slightly outperforms the XHP35 HI but not by much. Furthermore those who have used the XHP35 HI have achieved impressive results from it with nice tight hotspots. The assumption that it's a "huge LED" is incorrect. It's not going to give 30k in throw but I wouldn't be surprised to see 17-20k due to extra lumens and the HI emitter being used.


----------



## recDNA

The XP-L HI is one emitter. The other is 4 tiny emitters. We just disagree. I prefer XP-L HI or even XP-G2 or XP-E2 in a head this size. This beam profile of this light will be too similar to what I already have and I don't need the additional lumens. A high cri XP-G2 with a smooth reflector would be more to my liking. I won't use more than 3 amps anyway. The MKIIII should be spectacular for indoor use or lighting up a large outdoor area like my entire yard! Ditto the sc63 

I prefer a narrower beam angle.


----------



## bodhran

I have several Zebralights and love them. For my needs I prefer a bright wall of light and that's the type of flashlight I buy. I do have one thrower though should the need arise. Just my opinion, but Zebralight should stick with what works for them and there are many other companies out there that make some great throwers for those that prefer that kind of light.


----------



## scs

*Re: very picky on battery length*



light-wolff said:


> No, definitely not.
> 
> So I take it that nobody else can perceive flickering on high mode with almost depleted battery when the lamp is being moved. Lets me hope ZL can fix it when I return it.



Flickering as in PWM? Does it still come on at full output on high, or a lower mode? Don't know if it's comparable, my H52fw goes into noticeable PWM when the cell is low, and I select a mode with required voltage higher than the cell can provide. So it might be normal behavior of ZL boost circuits.


----------



## Fireclaw18

*Re: very picky on battery length*



scs said:


> Flickering as in PWM? Does it still come on at full output on high, or a lower mode? Don't know if it's comparable, my H52fw goes into noticeable PWM when the cell is low, and I select a mode with required voltage higher than the cell can provide. So it might be normal behavior of ZL boost circuits.



From the prior posts, it sounds like the flickering only appears when the light is moved and when the stock tailcap is used. It sounds like the goes away if the light is stationary or when a different tailcap with a long spring is used.

To me this doesn't sound like PWM flicker. Rather it sounds like a bad ground connection, probably at the tailcap.


----------



## TA_ls1

*Re: very picky on battery length*

Sorry if this has been answered already, but for the sc63, I've read on Zebralights site it takes 18650 up to 65 mm while the sc62 says up to 69 mm on their site. So does anyone know if Orbtronic 3400s will fit in the sc63? Thanks.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> The XP-L HI is one emitter. The other is 4 tiny emitters. We just disagree. I prefer XP-L HI or even XP-G2 or XP-E2 in a head this size. This beam profile of this light will be too similar to what I already have and I don't need the additional lumens. A high cri XP-G2 with a smooth reflector would be more to my liking. I won't use more than 3 amps anyway. The MKIIII should be spectacular for indoor use or lighting up a large outdoor area like my entire yard! Ditto the sc63
> 
> I prefer a narrower beam angle.



Nothing wrong with disagreeing, I was just pointing out that the XP-L HI and the XHP35 HI are very close in size and performance, the XHP35 HI doesn't produce a floody beam anymore than the XP-L HI does. In the same reflector the difference would be minimal and not noticeable. Another benefit of the XHP35 is its higher efficiency and cooler output at the same output level as compared with the XP-G2 or XM-L2. Last but not least they make 90+ CRI variants of it which ZL confirmed to me they plan to add a 90+ CRI SC63 in both 4k and 5k tints. This would be the first time they use such a high CRI LED, to my knowledge, and would be an excellent seller. They may add it for the MK3 also but I didn't ask about it.


----------



## Fireclaw18

*Re: very picky on battery length*

Rather than replacing the tailspring with the tiny little spring-posts like the SC5, Zebralight should have adopted the tailcap design of the DQG 18650 mini.

The DQG's _much _superior tailcap design allows the light to use any length 18650, while also preserving its ability to remain super-compact with no empty space in the battery compartment, regardless of the length of 18650 used. The DQG also has no springs in it to wear out or add electrical resistance.


----------



## snowlover91

*Re: very picky on battery length*



TA_ls1 said:


> Sorry if this has been answered already, but for the sc63, I've read on Zebralights site it takes 18650 up to 65 mm while the sc62 says up to 69 mm on their site. So does anyone know if Orbtronic 3400s will fit in the sc63? Thanks.



Only flat top batteries/unprotected 18650 will work. The one with a red wrapper on their site works well and has a 3500mah capacity also. Those orbotronic batteries are protected I think so they would be too long.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

*Re: very picky on battery length*



TA_ls1 said:


> Sorry if this has been answered already, but for the sc63, I've read on Zebralights site it takes 18650 up to 65 mm while the sc62 says up to 69 mm on their site. So does anyone know if Orbtronic 3400s will fit in the sc63? Thanks.



Go to orbtronic website (maybe the full site) and you should be able to find dimensions. They also sell unprotected cells.


----------



## sidecross

*Re: very picky on battery length*

I think the Zebralight SC600 Mklll was designed for a specific battery size for reasons that have yet to be fully explained.

I am sure a major reason was size reduction; I would be curious too as to why the design of the mentioned DQG 18650 tail piece was not a consideration.

I have a number of Zebralights and have been pleased with their designing, but for my needs the SC 600 Mk ll and the H600Fd III High CRI Floody Neutral White 18650 Headlamp are my two choices for small 18650 lights. :thumbsup:


----------



## gunga

*Re: very picky on battery length*



Fireclaw18 said:


> Rather than replacing the tailspring with the tiny little spring-posts like the SC5, Zebralight should have adopted the tailcap design of the DQG 18650 mini.
> 
> The DQG's _much _superior tailcap design allows the light to use any length 18650, while also preserving its ability to remain super-compact with no empty space in the battery compartment, regardless of the length of 18650 used. The DQG also has no springs in it to wear out or add electrical resistance.



Good point. If the DQG had different levels I would have kept mine. It is quite a good design.


----------



## TA_ls1

*Re: very picky on battery length*



snowlover91 said:


> Only flat top batteries/unprotected 18650 will work. The one with a red wrapper on their site works well and has a 3500mah capacity also. Those orbotronic batteries are protected I think so they would be too long.



Yes, I have 4 of the Orbtronic protected ones. So if I want to stick with those, would they fit in the sc62, and would the sc63 be worth changing my battery type to upgrade over the sc62?


----------



## snowlover91

*Re: very picky on battery length*



TA_ls1 said:


> Yes, I have 4 of the Orbtronic protected ones. So if I want to stick with those, would they fit in the sc62, and would the sc63 be worth changing my battery type to upgrade over the sc62?



I use orbotronic batteries in my SC62w no problems! It depends on if you want the latest and extra lumens and slightly smaller size or if you would rather stick with the SC62 to save some money and have more options for battery type. Also we have no idea what the SC63 will look like yet. I have the SC62w but also plan on trying the SC63w; if I like it better I'll probably sell my 62w and keep the 63w. I have a few unprotected batteries and like them better myself but that's also a matter of personal preference.


----------



## psychbeat

U could always just remove the protection circuit and rewrap the cells.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

I just ordered my SC63.

It is now on pre-order.


CHEERS


----------



## fnsooner

Oztorchfreak said:


> I just ordered my SC63.
> 
> It is now on pre-order.
> 
> 
> CHEERS


How are you liking that SC600 MK III?


----------



## light-wolff

simba23 said:


> Before you send it back, try cleaning the connections on the tail cap with alcohol swabs. Squish em up and down. Alcohol works wonders.


It definitely does, but not on my light. This was the first thing I tried.



scs said:


> Flickering as in PWM?...


No, flickering as in poor contact. Only on high, only with near-empty battery.


----------



## sidecross

light-wolff said:


> It definitely does, but not on my light. This was the first thing I tried.
> 
> 
> No, flickering as in poor contact. Only on high, only with near-empty battery.


I am curious, what is the actual voltage of 'near-empty battery'?


----------



## BobTodd

Hey everyone,

With the lowest settings using next to no charge on the MK III or SC63 would leaving it on one of them all the time ,like when camping, so that it is easy to find be detrimental to the light? I am sure that it would shorten or use up the life of the bulb but if that life is long enough and replacement in 2-4 years is the plan would it matter? 

Also does anyone have info on the H light with the XHP35 that Zebra lights says is going to be announced in a few months?

Thanks


----------



## simba23

*Re: very picky on battery length*



snowlover91 said:


> Only flat top batteries/unprotected 18650 will work. The one with a red wrapper on their site works well and has a 3500mah capacity also. Those orbotronic batteries are protected I think so they would be too long.



Actually it works with button cells too!


----------



## shira

*Re: very picky on battery length*



sidecross said:


> I think the Zebralight SC600 Mklll was designed for a specific battery size* for reasons that have yet to be fully explained.*
> 
> I am sure a major reason was size reduction; I would be curious too as to why the design of the mentioned DQG 18650 tail piece was not a consideration.
> 
> I have a number of Zebralights and have been pleased with their designing, but for my needs the SC 600 Mk ll and the H600Fd III High CRI Floody Neutral White 18650 Headlamp are my two choices for small 18650 lights. :thumbsup:



Maybe ZL is trying to induce their customers to purchase batteries only from ZL.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

My money is on the "tailcap springs couldn't handle the increased current" answer.


----------



## psychbeat

BobTodd said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> With the lowest settings using next to no charge on the MK III or SC63 would leaving it on one of them all the time ,like when camping, so that it is easy to find be detrimental to the light? I am sure that it would shorten or use up the life of the bulb but if that life is long enough and replacement in 2-4 years is the plan would it matter?
> 
> Also does anyone have info on the H light with the XHP35 that Zebra lights says is going to be announced in a few months?
> 
> Thanks



I've left my h600w on for weeks with no problems. 
The emitters lifespan is years of CONSTANT use before any noticeable dimming


----------



## sidecross

*Re: very picky on battery length*



shira said:


> Maybe ZL is trying to induce their customers to purchase batteries only from ZL.


I think the marketing department did not do their homework on the majority of flashlight consumers who have been pushed into the the 'Protected Battery' as the sole safe way to deal with 18650 batteries.

Zebralight's selling of batteries at a 'special price' is an after-thought in my opinion.

If I want to take advantage of Zebralight's small light design using a 65mm flat top battery is the right choice; the Mkll on the other hand can use batteries up to 69mm. I use the Mk ll because the light for me is small enough.


----------



## holygeez03

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> My money is on the "tailcap springs couldn't handle the increased current" answer.




If true, surely it is easier to add a "bypass" wire


----------



## Michael Aos

I have the SC62W, H600Fd III, SC600w Mk II L2 XM-L2, and now the SC600w Mk3 XHP35.
I have 4x of the ZL634's for the 3 ZL's that can accommodate up to 69mm. 
I totally missed the 65mm requirement of the SC600w Mk3 when I ordered back on 12/7. I ordered a 5th ZL634 with it.
ZL was kind enough to cancel the ZL634 and included a 65mm battery. Unfortunately, I still wasn't aware of the 65mm requirement when it arrived, so I pulled out the included battery to charge and tried to install the ZL634. 
Put a pretty good dent in the button-top before I realized what was going on.
I'm probably going to order some of their *NCR18650GA *while they're on sale for $7.99. Just trying to decide if I want to spend more than $50 to get the free shipping. 
I hate having to pay $4.95 shipping on a $7.99 battery. Might have to add an SC63w too...


----------



## markr6

Michael Aos said:


> I hate having to pay $4.95 shipping on a $7.99 battery. Might have to add an SC63w too...



I like the way you think 

I may have to cancel my SC63w order to make up for losing $95 from selling my SC600 MKIII. Either USPS lost the package, or the seller in screwing me. I tried to be nice and ship it out ASAP; since I missed the UPS pickup I sent it USPS first class. No tracking number...so I guess I just straight up lost $95. Or the buyer will enjoy a free light. Either way I'm screwed. I think I'm done selling here if people are going to rip me off.


----------



## oneinthaair

markr6 said:


> I like the way you think
> 
> I may have to cancel my SC63w order to make up for losing $95 from selling my SC600 MKIII. Either USPS lost the package, or the seller in screwing me. I tried to be nice and ship it out ASAP; since I missed the UPS pickup I sent it USPS first class. No tracking number...so I guess I just straight up lost $95. Or the buyer will enjoy a free light. Either way I'm screwed. I think I'm done selling here if people are going to rip me off.



I never ask for you to refund me, I appreciate you shipping it out as fast as you did. 

I didn't receive it that's a fact. I would never rip anybody off!

I've sold and bought tons of light from here and Facebook flashlight fanatics page.


----------



## gottawearshades

I've had packages stolen myself. So have my neighbors. In one case, to modded U2s from Nitroz. They had tracking, but that didn't help. The post office said as far as they were concerned the package was delivered and it's not their fault the package was stolen in the two hours before I got home. (I no longer have things shipped to that address.) Anyhow, I would assume the worst (but then again it didn't even occur to me to ask the seller for my money back). Sorry for the off-topic rant. It touches a nerve with me.


----------



## sidecross

markr6 said:


> I like the way you think
> 
> I may have to cancel my SC63w order to make up for losing $95 from selling my SC600 MKIII. Either USPS lost the package, or the seller in screwing me. I tried to be nice and ship it out ASAP; since I missed the UPS pickup I sent it USPS first class. No tracking number...so I guess I just straight up lost $95. Or the buyer will enjoy a free light. Either way I'm screwed. I think I'm done selling here if people are going to rip me off.


Give it some time, the USPS is under-staffed and many workers are 'Temporary' and not working at full pay or benefits of older Postal Workers. I have had problems too.

You should fill out a report of undelivered 'First Class Mail' there is an 'on-line' way to file a report.


----------



## markr6

I understand, but PayPal already took my account -$95. So I'm sure they will find it in your favor since USPS lost it


----------



## ateupwithgolf

gottawearshades said:


> I've had packages stolen myself. So have my neighbors. In one case, to modded U2s from Nitroz. They had tracking, but that didn't help. The post office said as far as they were concerned the package was delivered and it's not their fault the package was stolen in the two hours before I got home. (I no longer have things shipped to that address.) Anyhow, I would assume the worst (but then again it didn't even occur to me to ask the seller for my money back). Sorry for the off-topic rant. It touches a nerve with me.



Somewhat similar experience for me. I have an Australian shepherd and a Westie who live outside on my wrap around porch. They literally destroy any box, package, envelope, etc. that gets delivered if it doesn't make it to the screened it part of the porch. Lesson learned for me. Luckily, it's was Amazon stuff and they were great to re send it.


----------



## uofaengr

What always baffles me though is when you have tracking numbers that say delivered but it's nowhere to be found and shows up a day or two later. Easily could be good Samaritans that bring it by and put it in your box or at your doorstep, but even when I lived in an apartment with locked boxes I'd have stuff to show delivered on tracking but didn't show up in my box till the next day. When selling, I always get tracking and purchase the appropriate amount of insurance.


----------



## sidecross

markr6 said:


> I understand, but PayPal already took my account -$95. So I'm sure they will find it in your favor since USPS lost it


Priority Mail $50 insurance included

Priority Mail Express $100 insurance included


----------



## Oztorchfreak

fnsooner said:


> How are you liking that SC600 MK III?





It is really quite nice all round except for the battery situation.

Maybe one day I might be able to work out how Zebralight design staff think the way they do.

The beam and the tint looks good.

The lights that I get are usually delivered by DHL even though it costs me more.

I don't have any headaches with delivery delays or even non-deliveries. 

The thing I like about the SC600 series is that they don't get hot quickly like the SC60 series do.

They have more mass to get rid of the heat generated by the LED.

I am using an NCR18650GA and they have a very raised top dark blue ring and are rated at 3500mAh with no PTC.

The GAs perform the best.

They are all 65mm ish, even the GAs with the raised top is not longer, the battery itself is shorter due to lack of PTC, the raised top makes it equal length to the rest.

The shortest protected I have are the GA Blazars without nipple tops.

They are just raised a little at the end and are 67mm long.

The Blazar battery brand use Panasonic/Sanyo brand cells.

I have been using them for many years and never had any problems with them.



CHEERS


----------



## markr6

Pogo pin contacts...LOL! Thanks ZL, I didn't know what else to call them.


----------



## BobTodd

Can anyone give me a more detailed idea on what the heat difference would be between the mkiii and sc63 in theory or the sc62 and mkii. Is the difference only on the highest modes or do other modes get hot? Also is the difference in heating up equal to a negligible amount of time or a pretty noticeable amount?


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

I have an MKii, and heating is not a problem, at all, on H2.3 (the 162lm level). As you would expect, it heats up on H1. My unscientific test, starting with a cold light: after 30s, the temperature has noticeably changed to "not cold anymore". At 2 min, it's a little warm, like if you handed it to someone who knew nothing about lights, they might look at you a little funny. At 4 min, it's a bit warmer, but eminently holdable, including the head. At 5 min, it seems the same as 4.


----------



## scs

BobTodd said:


> Can anyone give me a more detailed idea on what the heat difference would be between the mkiii and sc63 in theory or the sc62 and mkii. Is the difference only on the highest modes or do other modes get hot? Also is the difference in heating up equal to a negligible amount of time or a pretty noticeable amount?



Check out selfbuilt's review of both lights.


----------



## light-wolff

sidecross said:


> I am curious, what is the actual voltage of 'near-empty battery'?


ballpark figures:
2 flashes of battery indicator
2000+ mAh discharged
3.5V resting voltage



ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> My money is on the "tailcap springs couldn't handle the increased current" answer.


My MK III runs longer and more reliably with an old SC62 "springed" tailcap than with its original. But maybe it's just my specific example...


----------



## markr6

Yeah measuring at the tailcap the mk III wasn't much higher than my mk II. I forget the exact figure...it's buried back in this thread somewhere! Maybe that doesn't tell us enough; I don't know enough of the technical stuff to say for sure. Off the top of my head I want to say the II was something like 2.8A and the III was 3.2A (but I have a bad memory)

If we were talking 5A, I would understand the pogo pin design.


----------



## AussieRanga

3.5V resting is very low, almost completely depleted so it is no surprise the light flickers at that stage. Regulation can only be so good..

Mark, how are you measuring those current values? My DMM, which is a high end genuine Fluke, only reads 5A on one of my lights which _should_ draw about 8A. When comparing the Lux values, it has considerably less output when using the DMM to activate the light and read current draw than if I just had the tailcap on so it wouldn't surprise me if the same was the case here.


----------



## markr6

AussieRanga said:


> 3.5V resting is very low, almost completely depleted so it is no surprise the light flickers at that stage. Regulation can only be so good..
> 
> Mark, how are you measuring those current values? My DMM, which is a high end genuine Fluke, only reads 5A on one of my lights which _should_ draw about 8A. When comparing the Lux values, it has considerably less output when using the DMM to activate the light and read current draw than if I just had the tailcap on so it wouldn't surprise me if the same was the case here.



The only thing I tried/knew how to do was put the leads on the battery and body, then turn it on H1. All my Zebralights in the past were pretty consistent doing this. So when the mk III was just a little higher, it seemed right to me.


----------



## scs

The XHP35 is a 12V emitter, so I expected the boost circuitry would need to suck more juice to power it than it did the XM-L2, and in the process take a major efficiency hit, yet the MK 3 is advertised to have practically the same runtimes as the MK 2.

On paper, the XHP35 puts out 172 lumens/W and the XM-L2 170 lumens/W. Where is the XHP35 so much more efficient that despite the need for a major voltage boost, its runtime performance does not suffer? Or is ZL's boost circuitry in the MK 3 that much a major improvement over that in the MK 2? If so, would there have been major runtime gains had ZL used the new circuit to power a XP-L instead?


----------



## light-wolff

AussieRanga said:


> 3.5V resting is very low, almost completely depleted so it is no surprise the light flickers at that stage. Regulation can only be so good...


You missed the point about poor contact. It doesn't flicker at all with a different tailcap that has a spring instead of the "pogo pins".



scs said:


> The XHP35 is a 12V emitter, so I expected the boost circuitry would need to suck more juice to power it than it did the XM-L2, and in the process take a major efficiency hit, yet the MK 3 is advertised to have practically the same runtimes as the MK 2.....


Very good question, I've been asking myself the same. The more a circuit has to boost voltage, the less efficient it is.


----------



## fnsooner

I think Zebralight went with the XHP35 due to all of the different flavors available for it, i.e., neutral, Hi CRI, High Intensity, etc. and are moving to use this LED in all of their 18650 flashlights. I think that they want to consolidate down to one driver and one LED class.

The point has been made that a good healthy protected 18650 should be able to handle the XHP35, but not every one will use good cells. I think Zebralight decided to make unprotected cells mandatory to eliminate nuisance tripping of the battery's protection circuit and unwarranted warranty claims on their flashlights. 

Seeings that they made the above decisions, they probably decided to take advantage and make their next gen flashlights smaller. 

As far as the question of will there always be cells made at 65mm(I think someone raised this question and was worried), I would say yes. The 65 in 18650 does stand for 65mm. Generally speaking the protection circuit and the button tops got the 18650 away from the 65mm length.

Whether these decisions are good ones, only time will tell. At the moment, I am going to give Zebralight a cautious benefit of the doubt and trust their judgment. I am trying to decide whether I want to order another SC62w, before they’re gone, to hedge my bets.


----------



## phantom23

^^
So basically they wanted to make their life easier at their clients expense, that's not client-oriented behaviour.


----------



## psychbeat

I agree with Sooner. 
And, being a boost circuit it will probably pull more current as the cell drains which would definitely trip the protection circuit prematurely and leave the "client" (who could be in a life or death caving, cycling, climbing etc situation) in the dark. 
These are "pro level" lights and aimed at an already semi-knowledgeable user I think. 
Whether or not it's good for the business of selling a lot of lights I'm glad they are focused on being the brightest, lightest and smallest possible and still "pushing the envelope"


----------



## sidecross

phantom23 said:


> ^^
> So basically they wanted to make their life easier at their clients expense, that's not client-oriented behaviour.


That is a very valid view point, but it is also quite possible that Zebralight decided to make a flashlight for a more experienced user who would understand or soon understand that their design takes in the user's knowledge of all the componets of currrrent flashlight technology.


----------



## markr6

I'm a ZL fan, and always try to defend them when possible, but I'm really starting to wish they never introduced these new models.

May purchase another SC62w...


----------



## WetMacula

I do not like the battery limitation of Mk III's and purchased an H600Fw Mk II Floody and an SC62w. Also tried an SC600w MkII to compare against the SC62w. Keeping the SC62w. It's lighter, smaller, has a wider hot spot, has identical tint, but I prefer the snap-on clip and knurling on the SC600w. Tried Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA, protected Orbtronic 3400's from Amazon, and unprotected Panasonic NCR18650B's. They all work in Mk II's. I think having springs is a better design.


----------



## sidecross

markr6 said:


> I'm a ZL fan, and always try to defend them when possible, but I'm really starting to wish they never introduced these new models.
> 
> May purchase another SC62w...


I wished Zebralight did more testing before their release of the SC600 Mklll and it is the reason I bought the Mk ll. Hopefully they will iron-out the problems and fix or replace those who have already purchased the SC600 Mklll who pre-ordered. A loyal customer base should be taken care of!


----------



## jhe888

My MkIIIw arrived this week, with a bonus battery. Nice.

The battery could be made to knock against the inside. I wouldn't call it a rattle. One piece of paper around the battery stopped it. Wouldn't there have to be some clearance to allow for a battery wrapped a little thicker than others? A non-issue.

Tint is beautiful. It is decidedly non-cool/non-bluish and I think it renders colors quite nicely. I have other "warm" or "neutral" tinted lights and the tint on this one is much better. Some of the others are decidedly yellowish. I still prefer that to a cool tint, but this light is better.

I see no artifacts in the beam. At close range and in shining it on a white wall, I might see a little variation in color in the beam. The center may be a little purplish and the area just outside of the hot spot of the beam may be a little (and I mean a very little) greenish. At more than a few feet I don't see this, and in actual use, shining on actual objects, I don't see it all.

It is more floody than throw. But is still usable at moderate distance.

The UI is great. Easy access to seven modes. And not at all hard to switch to the other four or five levels, either.

Build quality and anodizing are very good.

A winner.


----------



## phantom23

sidecross said:


> That is a very valid view point, but it is also quite possible that Zebralight decided to make a flashlight for a more experienced user who would understand or soon understand that their design takes in the user's knowledge of all the componets of currrrent flashlight technology.


But it just makes no sense compared to MkII which is basically the same without limitations.


----------



## sidecross

jhe888 said:


> My MkIIIw arrived this week, with a bonus battery. Nice.
> 
> The battery could be made to knock against the inside. I wouldn't call it a rattle. One piece of paper around the batter stopped it. Wouldn't there have to be some clearance to allow for a battery wrapped a little thicker than others? A non-issue.
> 
> Tint is beautiful. It is decidedly non-cool/bluish and I think it renders colors quite nicely. I have other "warm" or "neutral" tinted lights and the tint on this one is much better. Some of the others are decidedly yellowish. I still prefer that to a cool tint, but this light is better.
> 
> I see no artifacts in the beam. At close range and in shining it on a white call, I might see a little variation in color in the beam. The center may be a little purplish and the middle of the beam may be a little (and I mean a very little) greenish. At more than a few feet I don't see this, and in actual use, shining on actual objects, I don't see it all.
> 
> It is more floody than throw. But is still usable at moderate distance.
> 
> The UI is great. Easy access to seven modes. And not at all hard to switch to the other four or five levels, either.
> 
> Build quality and anodizing are very good.
> 
> A winner.


Thank you for your report and it will help me decide on my purchase of the Mk lll. I agree about the extra width as I do sometimes double wrap my batteries.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> I'm a ZL fan, and always try to defend them when possible, but I'm really starting to wish they never introduced these new models.
> 
> May purchase another SC62w...



I think they'll have these issues fixed in subsequent batches and in time for the SC63 and MK3 Hi. Any problems that arise during initial release of a new or updated light are solved quickly and subsequent batches usually fix the issue. I'm sure they've made a small adjustment to prevent the rattle that some have experienced, usually within 2-3 months you can tell if it's a design issue or just initial production issues. Even large companies like Apple have occasionally had a batch of bad screens or other problems, it's unusual but it does happen. That's my guess here is initial measurements were slightly off or they didn't see this issue in testing but will fix it asap.


----------



## markr6

jhe888 said:


> The battery could be made to knock against the inside. I wouldn't call it a rattle. One piece of paper around the batter stopped it. Wouldn't there have to be some clearance to allow for a battery wrapped a little thicker than others? A non-issue.



I BIG issue for me when every other Zebralight I have does not do this. I don't want to mess around with wrapping batteries with paper...halfass measure to something that should be right in the first place. I don't do that with even $15 flashlights...they fit just fine without the rattle.


----------



## jhe888

markr6 said:


> I BIG issue for me when every other Zebralight I have does not do this. I don't want to mess around with wrapping batteries with paper...halfass measure to something that should be right in the first place. I don't do that with even $15 flashlights...they fit just fine without the rattle.



I think the problem, if it is one, is that the spring loaded contacts they now use (which I think is to minimize length) don't squeeze the battery as tight as a longer coil spring, allowing a little side to side play. I don't have a MkII, but I understand it used a coil spring. The clearance on the sides is no more than the clearance in any other light I have. I really don't think the diameter could be made any smaller without preventing some slightly thicker or double wrapped batteries from fitting at all. I think the longer coil spring formerly used holds the battery more firmly than this contact design. It seems to me to be a trade off between cutting .25" (or so) off the length by using the lower tension and shorter spring-loaded contacts as opposed to having a higher tension but longer spring that prevents the battery from moving at all.

You don't have to like it, and if an immobile battery is more important than length to you, then don't get this light. I'm not arguing with you, just saying why it seems they used this design. I don't see it as a matter of right or wrong though. It is a matter of design priorities. Maybe it is a marketing mistake. If more people are like you and prefer no battery movement to length, that will prove to be a less optimal design choice.

It is clear to me that Zebra has prioritized shorter length in this design. Maybe there is some short, but high-power spring contact design of which I am not aware that could permit both goals to be met. If there were, and if it were of reasonable cost, I bet they would have used it. Perhaps stronger springs can be used in future models of this light and will be. If that is true, then you could fairly say this is a defect. As it stands, I'd say it is a design choice.

Again, with mine, it isn't even a rattle. It certainly doesn't affect electrical connectivity. A vigorous shake can cause the battery to shift enough to audibly hit the inner tube, but it doesn't rattle with casual use and motion. If that bothers you, a single thickness of paper, or even a piece of masking tape on the battery immobilizes it entirely. And, as I said, if that is unacceptable to you, don't buy this light.


----------



## InspectHerGadget

I think the rattle issue is minor and I've already forgotten about it. Let's face it, it isn't often you rattle your light to see if it rattles...

A bigger issue is the requirement for shorter cells which will catch a lot of buyers off guard. Let's face it the 18650 is a dogs breakfast of different sizes which is why it has never become a mainstream consumer item and likely won't either. The right battery is just one more purchase needed which will frustrate and annoy the unwary.

It works and it is a design decision they made. I'm very happy with the light, it is a little powerhouse and tiny...nice


----------



## sidecross

I am glad to read the positive responses to the SC600 Mklll. 

The battery size is not a problem for me as it is a standard flat top 18650 battery and is the only battery that could reduce the the over all length of the light.

The noise made by shaking seems common to any double spring type contact and is the same noise made on many other lights used on firearms to control recoil.

The higher voltage needed for the Cree High Intensity XHP35 does have me a bit concerned about the contact design to handle the higher voltage and current. I have not read so far any consistent problems in this area, but I am still reading others reports.

I do like that Zebralight is trying to design a light for the more experienced user and not just trying to design a new light for an 'unenlightened' general public.


----------



## sdr

sidecross said:


> I am glad to read the positive responses to the SC600 Mklll.



I currently own 3 different SC600's - The Original(cw), which I guess you could call a Mk I. The Mk II(w) and the new Mk III(cw) (see pic below)...







In my opinion each one has been an improvement over its predecessor. This new Mk III is no exception. If you're on the fence about buying one because of any negative reviews you may have read? I would simply urge you to try one and judge for yourself. 

For me the "rattle" is and always has been a non issue. In order to make the battery do anything that might be construed as a rattle you have to shake the light vigorously with the intent to cause the battery to strike the inner wall of the flashlight. Then and only then can the battery be perceived to hit the inside of the flashlight. It's more like a knocking than a rattle. And, again, it only does that when I try to do it intentionally. Never in regular use.

The battery issue. Hmm? Again, and this is only my opinion, but, it too is a non issue. For one thing, I have been using unprotected 65mm cells for a long time and have several that could have very easily been used in this new Zebralight. NCR18650B's to be exact and lots of 'em! So, no big for me. Nonetheless I bought new cells that could withstand the higher drain the Mk III might impose upon its power source. I picked up a couple of NCR18650GA's before the new light arrived so that I could provide my new light the best possible energy source available. And, then, lo and behold, since I live is the US, Zebralight included a brand spanking new battery with my new flashlight. So, no complaints from me about the battery issue.

And, really! Aren't those the only two negatives that anyone has mentioned about this new light? I mean, what else can you possibly say about a flashlight that's as small as this new Mk III that puts out the most amazing wall of illumination I have ever seen? It wasn't that long ago that I was completely blown away by the 750 lumens of the original SC600. Now I have an even smaller flashlight that nearly doubles the output of that first Zebralight. For me it just keeps getting better with the SC600 series from Zebralight. It's a great little pocket cannon that I can find no reason to pick nits over. As always, your mileage may vary? But, I'd almost be willing to bet, if you try one you'll like it!


----------



## simba23

sdr said:


> I currently own 3 different SC600's - The Original(cw), which I guess you could call a Mk I. The Mk II(w) and the new Mk III(cw) (see pic below)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion each one has been an improvement over its predecessor. This new Mk III is no exception. If you're on the fence about buying one because of any negative reviews you may have read? I would simply urge you to try one and judge for yourself.
> 
> For me the "rattle" is and always has been a non issue. In order to make the battery do anything that might be construed as a rattle you have to shake the light vigorously with the intent to cause the battery to strike the inner wall of the flashlight. Then and only then can the battery be perceived to hit the inside of the flashlight. It's more like a knocking than a rattle. And, again, it only does that when I try to do it intentionally. Never in regular use.
> 
> The battery issue. Hmm? Again, and this is only my opinion, but, it too is a non issue. For one thing, I have been using unprotected 65mm cells for a long time and have several that could have very easily been used in this new Zebralight. NCR18650B's to be exact and lots of 'em! So, no big for me. Nonetheless I bought new cells that could withstand the higher drain the Mk III might impose upon its power source. I picked up a couple of NCR18650GA's before the new light arrived so that I could provide my new light the best possible energy source available. And, then, lo and behold, since I live is the US, Zebralight included a brand spanking new battery with my new flashlight. So, no complaints from me about the battery issue.
> 
> And, really! Aren't those the only two negatives that anyone has mentioned about this new light? I mean, what else can you possibly say about a flashlight that's as small as this new Mk III that puts out the most amazing wall of illumination I have ever seen? It wasn't that long ago that I was completely blown away by the 750 lumens of the original SC600. Now I have an even smaller flashlight that nearly doubles the output of that first Zebralight. For me it just keeps getting better with the SC600 series from Zebralight. It's a great little pocket cannon that I can find no reason to pick nits over. As always, your mileage may vary? But, I'd almost be willing to bet, if you try one you'll like it!



Very well said. I concur. It's a beautiful light. No first world problems for me lol. *flame suit on*


----------



## gunga

Based on the "problems" I've read, I'll likely get an sc63w. I picked up a few unprotected flat tops recently, and my little brass 18650 light also can only fit unprotected cells so it's no big deal to me.


----------



## snowlover91

Fwiw my SC62w with unprotected cells does the same "rattling" but only when I shake it side to side really hard. It doesn't do it with protected cells. I don't have the problem in normal use and it doesn't bother me one bit.


----------



## jepeck

Decision time for my first EDC..Do I pre order an sc63w or the go with the Olight S1?


----------



## xdayv

What advantages do the sc600 III have over the sc63? It seems they have same output and runtime.


----------



## scs

xdayv said:


> What advantages do the sc600 III have over the sc63? It seems they have same output and runtime.



Stays on the two higher modes a bit longer than the SC63 does before PID ramps down output.
My guess: also has a bit more throw but likely less than 40% more than the SC63 does. (The HI version might have around 40% more throw than the SC63 does).


----------



## fnsooner

phantom23 said:


> ^^
> So basically they wanted to make their life easier at their clients expense, that's not client-oriented behaviour.



I think they looked at it as an opportunity to make their life easier. Whether it is at the client’s expense, probably depends on the client. At the moment, I look forward to the changes made.

The change to a 65mm cell doesn’t really bother me, but if I do like the SC63w, I will have to re-organize my battery strategy. I EDC an SC62w and on the rare occasion that I use up a battery during the day, I have spare flashlights here and there, like in my work truck, car and shop, to use their battery. The batteries in these spare flashlights won’t work in the newly designed ZLs, 

I don’t think any of the critical comments on the SC600 MK III will affect me. ATM, tint lottery is the only thing I am concerned about.


----------



## markr6

jhe888 said:


> And, as I said, if that is unacceptable to you, don't buy this light.



I already bought it. How would I know how much it bothers me if I didn't already have one? I guess you didn't see my video of the "rattle" or banging against the side tube...whatever we're calling it. Splitting hairs here. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?399047-Zebralight-plans-MKIII-s-and-SC63-release-for-this-year/page41&p=4803491#post4803491 (Without clear shrink wrap)

I'm sure you also missed my part about wrapping the cell, which greatly reduced the rattle. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...or-this-year&p=4804290&viewfull=1#post4804290

I'm not being a smartass...I'm just saying this since this thread is too long to read every page!

You're right about the springs holding it tighter. Last night I put 2xCR123 in my Fenix PD32UE which has springs on each end. But there is also a TON of wiggle room in there with CR123 compared to 18650...but no rattle AT ALL with either. I guess I just wish ZL suck with that.

I didn't cancel my SC63w order...too curious to see what it's like. I'm just having some bad luck with ZL lately with the new design, then USPS losing one I sold, so Paypal took my account negative $95!! I guess I can ignore it and never use paypal again, or pony up and move on


----------



## fnsooner

sdr said:


> I currently own 3 different SC600's - The Original(cw), which I guess you could call a Mk I. The Mk II(w) and the new Mk III(cw) (see pic below)...


Sweet pic. I skipped the MK II gen. I am looking forward to the MK III HI. This picture is making it a tough wait.


----------



## waxing twilight

Perhaps ZL could mitigate any rattle or knock from the cells by using thin cone shaped/tapered o-rings at either end of the tube to keep the cell centered. Using a soft silicone type material as well as very gradual taper should allow for the variation in diameters without compromising the contact quality/continuity/volume. Thoughts?
Anyone with MKII and MKIII have any beam shots they can post for comparison? I haven't been able to find any MKIII beam shots with the XHP35 emitter yet. I'm curious to see how/if there is any difference in the beams between the two. Thinking I might check out the SC600 HI to pair with H600FD if the DC600/HI isn't overly floody.


----------



## simba23

jepeck said:


> Decision time for my first EDC..Do I pre order an sc63w or the go with the Olight S1?



Sc63w


----------



## oneinthaair

Olight suck I'll never buy another one! sC63w FTW


----------



## KITROBASKIN

fnsooner said:


> Sweet pic. I skipped the MK II gen. I am looking forward to the MK III HI. This picture is making it a tough wait.



The picture SDR presented is indeed a delight. It demonstrates the ZebraLight philosophy of smaller, brighter, same or similar price. And while some of us go through ZL's like popcorn in a movie, others are still appreciating previous generations of ZL flashlights (like the absolutely wonderful SC62d) yet still love to see the latest models, and will very likely purchase another, with the right combination of features and capabilities.

Another element we've seen through the years; ZebraLight listens to her customers here on candlepowerforums, and knows that she can't please everyone, every time. (It is still a laugh to read someone complaining about the flash when doing a quick double press to get to medium mode). But indications are, sales are healthy. If you like the flashlight enough, battery rattle from smaller diameter batteries will not stop you. Who knows, there may be some reason for the larger diameter that we do not know. Has anyone asked ZL customer service? Maybe they want to give us space inside to ID the light, or store some emergency electrical tape?

LOVE that picture


----------



## Fireclaw18

simba23 said:


> Sc63w


It really depends on your preference. 

Olight S1 is a much, MUCH smaller light than the SC63w. This isn't too surprising since it uses a much smaller battery. If you don't mind carrying the extra weight of an 18650 cell or need the extra runtime and brightness then the SC63w is probably the better choice. 

If you want the smallest possible EDC light that vanishes in your pocket you'll probably enjoy the S1 more.


----------



## markr6

KITROBASKIN said:


> If you like the flashlight enough, battery rattle from smaller diameter batteries will not stop you.



Oh yes it does  Especially when they're _not _smaller diameter, but standard 18mm, and even thicker with an added wrapper.

I hope the SC63w is not the same.


----------



## Fireclaw18

markr6 said:


> Oh yes it does
> 
> I hope the SC63w is not the same.



I suspect it will be. They probably achieved the 4mm savings in length by shortening the battery compartment and switching the tailcap spring to a pogo-pin setup just like the SC600 MK3.

They should've looked at the DQG Tiny 3 and used that tailcap design: Ridiculously simple, excellent conduction, a single-piece tailcap with no springs or pins (so cheaper to manufacture), zero battery rattle, smallest possible battery compartment, fits any length battery.


----------



## snowlover91

Fireclaw18 said:


> It really depends on your preference.
> 
> Olight S1 is a much, MUCH smaller light than the SC63w. This isn't too surprising since it uses a much smaller battery. If you don't mind carrying the extra weight of an 18650 cell or need the extra runtime and brightness then the SC63w is probably the better choice.
> 
> If you want the smallest possible EDC light that vanishes in your pocket *you'll probably enjoy the S1 more.*


I actually prefer the SC32w more over the S1 or older S10. It has NW tint, instant access to a L, M or H setting with a superior UI. Although slightly larger than the S1 I'll take the extra size to get the superior UI and NW tint any day.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> I actually prefer the SC32w more over the S1 or older S10. It has NW tint, instant access to a L, M or H setting with a superior UI. Although slightly larger than the S1 I'll take the extra size to get the superior UI and NW tint any day.



Same here. I just got an S1 and it's the most frustrating UI...SO SLOW cycling thru those modes. You can instantly access moon and high, but that doesn't make me feel any better.


----------



## jhe888

Fireclaw18 said:


> It really depends on your preference.



This is what many people forget. Different people have different preferences and goals. If you want a small light, you'll be fine with an AA or even an AAA powered light. If you want bright, you'll have to give up on tiny size. It isn't always that stark a contrast, but there are trade-offs. Some seem to forget that not everyone shares their preferences, and issue blanket statements like: "This light rawks!" while others think "This light sucks."

To be sure, some do suck - they break, or are both huge, dim, and poorly made. But often, it is a matter of what you want that is the deciding factor.

Obviously some are really irritated by not being able to use a protected cell in the MkIII. But others don't mind a bit, and like the smaller size or slightly increased performance. Those are matters of preference.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Q: I see that ZL website has SC62, SC62w, and SC62c. They correspond to cool, neutral, and high CRI. But the first SC62 was the SC62d (daylight tint). Is the SC62c the re-branding of the SC62d? Note that the SC62c product page[1] mis-labels the image with the "SC62d Flashlight" caption. So are the w and c letters an attempt to normalize their product naming?

[1]: http://www.zebralight.com/SC62c-High-CRI-Neutral-White-18650-Flashlight_p_146.html


----------



## markr6

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Q: I see that ZL website has SC62, SC62w, and SC62c. They correspond to cool, neutral, and high CRI. But the first SC62 was the SC62d (daylight tint). Is the SC62c the re-branding of the SC62d? Note that the SC62c product page[1] mis-labels the image with the "SC62d Flashlight" caption. So are the w and c letters an attempt to normalize their product naming?
> 
> [1]: http://www.zebralight.com/SC62c-High-CRI-Neutral-White-18650-Flashlight_p_146.html



The SC62c is warmer @ 4000K instead of 5000K. And don't go by the photo tag, it's been wrong since day one due to an obvious copy-paste/template error. Lots of products share the same image as well, since they are basically the same thing other than the LED and writing on the body. So it's easy to overlook things like that when adding a new product.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

So how would the CW, w, c, d rank from cool to warm?


----------



## markr6

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> So how would the CW, w, c, d rank from cool to warm?



Cool to warm: SC62>SC62d>SC62w>SC62c

You also have the high CRI of the c and d models, but with less output.

The SC600 MK III cool white is a little warmer than the previous models, around 5700K


----------



## sidecross

One advantage of the new SC600 Mk lll CCT 5700K is ability to use 18650 batteries rated at 4.35 volts such as the LG ICR18650E1 3200mAh 4.35v (needs a battery charger that can charge at this voltage).

This combination of battery and Cree XHP35 should be a good combination (battery is 65.2mm).


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Wait, I'm totally confused now. I thought temp (e.g. 5700K) correlated with "cool", "warm", and "neutral" - but I also thought that "high CRI" was a marketing term attached to certain temps.. Like 5000K was daylight tint.


----------



## scs

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Wait, I'm totally confused now. I thought temp (e.g. 5700K) correlated with "cool", "warm", and "neutral" - but I also thought that "high CRI" was a marketing term attached to certain temps.. Like 5000K was daylight tint.



CRI and tints are separate characteristics. Emitters with different tints can have the same CRI, or emitters with the same tint can have different CRIs.
Typically, warmer tints have higher CRI than their cooler counterparts.
Tint is the "color" of the beam. CRI essentially is a measure of how well (and accurately) the beam renders colors of objects.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Q: I see that ZL website has SC62, SC62w, and SC62c. They correspond to cool, neutral, and high CRI. But the first SC62 was the SC62d (daylight tint). Is the SC62c the re-branding of the SC62d? Note that the SC62c product page[1] mis-labels the image with the "SC62d Flashlight" caption. So are the w and c letters an attempt to normalize their product naming?
> 
> [1]: http://www.zebralight.com/SC62c-High-CRI-Neutral-White-18650-Flashlight_p_146.html



Ha! They changed the caption already to SC62c!


----------



## sidecross

CRI (color rendering index) is a measure of how accurately a light source illuminates objects' true colors. Our LED lights have CRI values of up to 98, indicating that our LED lights are able to produce white light that approximates halogen or incandescent lighting and natural daylight.


(CCT) UNDERSTANDING CORRELATED COLOR TEMPERATURE

There are a number of color combinations that can be used to create White Light, or a particular Color Temperature. The Chromaticity Chart is used to qualify the color of the light that is produced by a lamp. This is called a lamp’s Color Temperature. This can be seen on the Chromaticity chart. Color temperature is specified in degrees kelvin (K).


----------



## sidecross

KITROBASKIN said:


> The picture SDR presented is indeed a delight. It demonstrates the ZebraLight philosophy of smaller, brighter, same or similar price. And while some of us go through ZL's like popcorn in a movie, others are still appreciating previous generations of ZL flashlights (like the absolutely wonderful SC62d) yet still love to see the latest models, and will very likely purchase another, with the right combination of features and capabilities.
> 
> Another element we've seen through the years; ZebraLight listens to her customers here on candlepowerforums, and knows that she can't please everyone, every time. (It is still a laugh to read someone complaining about the flash when doing a quick double press to get to medium mode). But indications are, sales are healthy. If you like the flashlight enough, battery rattle from smaller diameter batteries will not stop you. Who knows, there may be some reason for the larger diameter that we do not know. Has anyone asked ZL customer service? Maybe they want to give us space inside to ID the light, or store some emergency electrical tape?
> 
> LOVE that picture



I liked the way you referred to Zebralight as feminine when you wrote: "ZebraLight listens to her customers" and "she can't please everyone, every time".

Maybe it was this feminine side that had me order today the new SC600 Mklll after reading the many post written about their newest light. I even ordered from Mountain Electronics a few LG ICR18650E1-3200mAh 4.35v batteries to fully let this newest Zebralight shine in all her glory!


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Very much looking forward to your impressions, sidecross.


----------



## simba23

Get a room you two!


----------



## jepeck

Fireclaw18 said:


> It really depends on your preference.
> 
> Olight S1 is a much, MUCH smaller light than the SC63w. This isn't too surprising since it uses a much smaller battery. If you don't mind carrying the extra weight of an 18650 cell or need the extra runtime and brightness then the SC63w is probably the better choice.
> 
> If you want the smallest possible EDC light that vanishes in your pocket you'll probably enjoy the S1 more.




Thanks..SC63w is now pre-ordered. I live in Hong Kong so there is a chance I could be one of the first to receive if its shipped from China. If so, I will make sure to post photos when I do. I may still order the S1 though to stick on the refrigerator for my wife and kids to use, if I can find one for <$40.


----------



## sidecross

simba23 said:


> Get a room you two!


My full screen name is artemis sidecross!


----------



## snowlover91

jepeck said:


> Thanks..SC63w is now pre-ordered. I live in Hong Kong so there is a chance I could be one of the first to receive if its shipped from China. If so, I will make sure to post photos when I do. I may still order the S1 though to stick on the refrigerator for my wife and kids to use, if I can find one for <$40.




There is a group buy here on the forum check it out under the group buys and pass around forum. Excellent price.


----------



## recDNA

jepeck said:


> Decision time for my first EDC..Do I pre order an sc63w or the go with the Olight S1?


SC62w! They are on sale. Difference in output is not great. Uses every type of 18650 I have tried. On sale at Zebralight site VERY CHEAP.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> The SC62c is warmer @ 4000K instead of 5000K. And don't go by the photo tag, it's been wrong since day one due to an obvious copy-paste/template error. Lots of products share the same image as well, since they are basically the same thing other than the LED and writing on the body. So it's easy to overlook things like that when adding a new product.


My problem is I want cri above 90 to accept the huge drop in output. 85 cri isn't that great imo. Which of the higher cri zebralight has the 5000k rating?


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> My problem is I want cri above 90 to accept the huge drop in output. 85 cri isn't that great imo. Which of the higher cri zebralight has the 5000k rating?



Theyre considering doing a 4K and 5k with 90+ CRI but due to the way they select the LED's for this (they "cherry pick" them) they said it may be a few months before one is announced/released, if they decide to do it. Apparently it takes a great deal of time and resources to use that method for their higher CRI lights but if they do I certainly would buy one or two.


----------



## recDNA

snowlover91 said:


> Theyre considering doing a 4K and 5k with 90+ CRI but due to the way they select the LED's for this (they "cherry pick" them) they said it may be a few months before one is announced/released, if they decide to do it. Apparently it takes a great deal of time and resources to use that method for their higher CRI lights but if they do I certainly would buy one or two.


I won't use unprotected icr, don't have a NiMH charger, and I haven't heard of an sc33d so none of the new models work for me.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I won't use unprotected icr, don't have a NiMH charger, and I haven't heard of an sc33d so none of the new models work for me.



Yeah the unprotected is the only way to go with their models so if one won't use those then unfortunately not any options right now, I don't think they'll go back to using protected batteries for their lights as they are pushing the limits both in compact size as well as output. I used to be against unprotected 18650 but then after conducting extensive research I realized that the issues came from people using either cheap cells or in applications the cells weren't designed for or couldn't handle. Pulling 3-4 amps from this light and using a cell designed for 10 amps means the cell can handle it just fine. The main benefits of a protection circuit are to protect against over discharge and too high amp draw. If you get a battery rated at 10 amps you don't have to worry about too high amp draw and over discharge in a ZL is highly unlikely since it steps down in brightness when the battery is low.


----------



## sidecross

If you use good quality 18650 flat-top batteries and quality chargers, the Zebralight are safe to use with the only limit being the users knowledge of lithium battery technology.

The 'protected battery' is a marketing ploy for those in fear of not knowing about lithium batteries, and the 'protection' is only as good as is the supplier and manufacturer. A 'protected Battery' from an unknown or unproven supplier is not necessarily safer than a good quality flat-top battery.


----------



## scs

Has anyone had the chance to verify a select few claimed runtimes of the MK3?
It's astounding that boosting a single cell to power a nearly 12V emitter doesn't put a dent on the runtimes, which are equivalent to and in some cases exceed those of the MK2.


----------



## holygeez03

I was thinking the same thing... do we know if the same capacity battery was used in the MK2 test?


----------



## sidecross

scs said:


> Has anyone had the chance to verify a select few claimed runtimes of the MK3?
> It's astounding that boosting a single cell to power a nearly 12V emitter doesn't put a dent on the runtimes, which are equivalent to and in some cases exceed those of the MK2.


Part of what Cree writes on their web site is the advantage of the XHP35 is their efficiency in using 12 volts and they call it a "Breakthrough".

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds--XHP35.pdf


----------



## twistedraven

The H1 runtimes are longer than average because of the active thermal regulation, so the light will eventually drop to a considerably lower lumen output.


----------



## geokite

ZL has no restrictions on their batteries other than length. Nothing on how much current the battery can supply. I may be ignorant on batteries; are all batteries 65mm long capable of supplying the current required by the MkIII?

Steve


----------



## jak

So the Zebralight spreadsheet recently added to the SC600 MkIII HI's "*Models w/ Similar Beam Profile*" column, "*SC600 I, II, III*."

I assumed something with the HI (high intensity) would have more throw, and therefore a different beam profile. Who knows more than me?


----------



## sidecross

jak said:


> So the Zebralight spreadsheet recently added to the SC600 MkIII HI's "*Models w/ Similar Beam Profile*" column, "*SC600 I, II, III*."
> 
> I assumed something with the HI (high intensity) would have more throw, and therefore a different beam profile. Who knows more than me?


"Cree has made two LED-centric announcements targeted at solid-state lighting product developments in vastly different application areas. The company has announced the XLamp XP-L HI (High Intensity) packaged LEDs that target applications ranging from indoor tracks to stadium lighting. Meanwhile, the company is demonstrating a new TrueWhite LED array or modular light engine, that will enable high-CRI, high-efficacy lighting products that can effectively replace ceramic metal-halide (CMH) lamps and later expand to serve other applications."

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...aged-leds-plans-truewhite-array-offering.html


----------



## ateupwithgolf

In response to your emails, Zebralight has changed their webpage. The SC63 is now listed way down at the bottom. Good job.  (Still no pictures!)


----------



## markr6

ateupwithgolf said:


> In response to your emails, Zebralight has changed their webpage. The SC63 is now listed way down at the bottom. Good job.  (Still no pictures!)



It depends how you get there. Go directly to zebralight.com or click their home/logo and it's at the top. Click the "Flashlights" category and it's at the bottom. Not a big deal; just something to bother nit-pickers like me.


----------



## joxa80

After readying all this posts,and still not having one,can someone of you owners please upload a video of sc600 mkiii.grin2: just a need to convince me to buy one lol.)


----------



## markr6

joxa80 said:


> After readying all this posts,and still not having one,can someone of you owners please upload a video of sc600 mkiii.grin2: just a need to convince me to buy one lol.)



Well, then _don't_ look at my video 

FWIW, it's not that bad (after wrapping the battery). I'm just picky.


----------



## joxa80

i saw your video.just wished there was a video with a comparison of tints and size against the sc600 i already have,or some other lights of course.(you made a good point of preventing me to get one but still its itching me to get one.:laughing


----------



## scs

sidecross said:


> Part of what Cree writes on their web site is the advantage of the XHP35 is their efficiency in using 12 volts and they call it a "Breakthrough".
> 
> http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds--XHP35.pdf





sidecross said:


> Part of what Cree writes on their web site is the advantage of the XHP35 is their efficiency in using 12 volts and they call it a "Breakthrough".
> 
> http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds--XHP35.pdf



I understand that for the same wattage requirement, as the voltage goes up, the current needed goes down.

But in order to take advantage of the higher voltage, the circuit has to first boost from 4.2/4.35 V up to around 12V; it does so by drawing a higher current (hence the unprotected cell requirement) than that required for the the MK2, for every level right?

Higher current = lower runtime with the same cell.

The single lumen per watt data point shows that the difference between the XHP35 and XM-L2 is only 2 lumens.

Where is the claimed efficiency coming from?


----------



## scs

joxa80 said:


> i saw your video.just wished there was a video with a comparison of tints and size against the sc600 i already have,or some other lights of course.(you made a good point of preventing me to get one but still its itching me to get one.:laughing



You can find a pic of size comparison one or two pages back.


----------



## sdr

joxa80 said:


> i saw your video.just wished there was a video with a comparison of tints and size against the sc600 i already have,or some other lights of course.(you made a good point of preventing me to get one but still its itching me to get one.:laughing



I don't know if this pic I posted not too long ago in one of these threads will help? But, here are some tint comparisons for you...


----------



## joxa80

That photo does help and i had already seen it,and to to tell you the truth,mkiii seems so much nicer than my mki tint wise. i am just looking for excuses i guess....


----------



## sidecross

scs said:


> I understand that for the same wattage requirement, as the voltage goes up, the current needed goes down.
> 
> But in order to take advantage of the higher voltage, the circuit has to first boost from 4.2/4.35 V up to around 12V; it does so by drawing a higher current (hence the unprotected cell requirement) than that required for the the MK2, for every level right?
> 
> Higher current = lower runtime with the same cell.
> 
> The single lumen per watt data point shows that the difference between the XHP35 and XM-L2 is only 2 lumens.
> 
> Where is the claimed efficiency coming from?


I am not an electrical engineer and only from what I have read I think the gain is not measured in lumens but rather in the efficient use of a given voltage and capacity. I would welcome a more complete answer myself. :thumbsup:


----------



## snowlover91

Part of the efficiency gain may be coming from a more efficient boost circuit. They likely had to redesign one or at least significantly modify their existing design to work for the 12v emitter. In doing so they probably were able to boost efficiency some as well.


----------



## sidecross

snowlover91 said:


> Part of the efficiency gain may be coming from a more efficient boost circuit. They likely had to redesign one or at least significantly modify their existing design to work for the 12v emitter. In doing so they probably were able to boost efficiency some as well.


"...The XHP35 allows the use of readily available cost optimized drivers to unleash the capabilities of Cree’s highpower LED's available in both high density and high intensity versions." 

This quote is from Cree's web site and it seems the drivers were 'readily available'. I would welcome a comment from Zebralight if they read the writings on this forum.


----------



## scs

sidecross said:


> "...The XHP35 allows the use of readily available cost optimized drivers to unleash the capabilities of Cree’s highpower LED's available in both high density and high intensity versions."
> 
> This quote is from Cree's web site and it seems the drivers were 'readily available'. I would welcome a comment from Zebralight if they read the writings on this forum.



Imagine if these readily available drivers are readily available to us and readily fit into Convoy S2s...


----------



## sidecross

scs said:


> Imagine if these readily available drivers are readily available to us and readily fit into Convoy S2s...


That would be great news for those who have the talent and interest to make lights that are more self-designed. The BudgetLightForum and Mountain Electronics would be the first group of people I know about who would be ready and talented enough to take full advantage! :thumbsup:


----------



## Mr Floppy

sidecross said:


> This quote is from Cree's web site and it seems the drivers were 'readily available'. I would welcome a comment from Zebralight if they read the writings on this forum.



They mean the drivers for home lighting, GU10, MR16 etc.


----------



## sdr

joxa80 said:


> That photo does help and i had already seen it,and to to tell you the truth,mkiii seems so much nicer than my mki tint wise. i am just looking for excuses i guess....



Here is another pic I re-shot this time using ONLY Zebralights, leaving the ArmyTek Predator out, and arranging them from left to right Mk I, Mk III, and Mk II(w). The two sets you see are simply the same set-up shot at slightly different camera angles. The differences are minimal but I thought that they might help you determine the tint differences a bit better? Here, you be the judge...







Be sure to note that the Mk II on the far right is the SC600(w) - neutral tint @ 4400K compared to the Mk III @ 5700K and the original SC600 @ 6300K ~ Also bear in mind that the wall is not pure white. I believe it's called Navajo White? 

This pic should give you a little better idea of how the cool white tint of the Mk III compares to your original SC600...hopefully?


----------



## light-wolff

scs said:


> But in order to take advantage of the higher voltage, the circuit has to first boost from 4.2/4.35 V up to around 12V; it does so by drawing a higher current (hence the unprotected cell requirement) than that required for the the MK2, for every level right?


If you boost the voltage by a factor of 3, input current is 3 times output current, yes.
But the point here is that the output current is only about 1/3 of that reqired in the MKII. So the input current is about the same. The power requirements of MKII and MKIII are quite similar.


----------



## jepeck

I'm new to the forum and no engineer, but I really don't understand the doubting and holding onto the past mentality. This is a new LED platform and for Cree and for Zebra. These are industry leaders who's market position requires them to innovate and improve. 65mm unprotected hi amp cells are a requirement because they are better and are the future. If you don't want cutting edge performance, then you should be purchasing one of the numerous great 18650 XM-L2 EDC options available for much cheaper.


----------



## sidecross

Mr Floppy said:


> They mean the drivers for home lighting, GU10, MR16 etc.


Thank you!


----------



## geokite

light-wolff said:


> If you boost the voltage by a factor of 3, input current is 3 times output current, yes.
> But the point here is that the output current is only about 1/3 of that reqired in the MKII. So the input current is about the same. The power requirements of MKII and MKIII are quite similar.



Specifically, 4.2A with the MkIII and 3.4A with the MkII.

Does this current increase justify the usage of 65mm cells? Can all 65mm cells safely supply the current needed by the MkIII, because there is no requirement other than length for the battery on the ZL site.

Steve


----------



## FlashlightMonkey

I contacted their support team and got a confirmation that the SC63w requires unprotected 18650 battery. I'm a flashlight newbie but I actually unsure if I like to take the risk and buy this flashlight because of this... 


*Customer*
1/8/2016 3:28:40 PMHi,

Should I use a Protected/Unprotected 18650 battery for the following flashlight?

SC63w 18650 XHP35 Flashlight Neutral White
Item Id:ZLSC63w



*Staff (Administrator)*
1/9/2016 11:19:38 AMMust use unprotected 18650 batteries. 

http://www.zebralight.com/Panasonic...-Battery-ship-to-US-customers-only_p_176.html


----------



## sidecross

geokite said:


> Specifically, 4.2A with the MkIII and 3.4A with the MkII.
> 
> Does this current increase justify the usage of 65mm cells? Can all 65mm cells safely supply the current needed by the MkIII, because there is no requirement other than length for the battery on the ZL site.
> 
> Steve


It is the capacity of the battery of the battery not its length that determines amps. http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html


----------



## waxing twilight

Nice, thanks SDR! MKIII tint looks perfect.

Have you noticed any difference in spill, hotspot, throw, or beam angle between the various emitters used? They appear pretty uniform from the pic with perhaps the original sc600 having a slightly tighter hotspot, but wider spill?


----------



## geokite

sidecross said:


> It is the capacity of the battery of the battery not its length that determines amps. http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html



So current capacity of the battery is NOT a requirement for the MkIII, as ZL is only requiring a particular length battery. ZL is not requiring a minimum capacity 18650.

So, as ZL has said on reddit, the reason for going to 65mm cells is the fact they are unprotected, and they are shorter. Nothing else. Not what current they can supply.

Steve


----------



## jhe888

FlashlightMonkey said:


> I contacted their support team and got a confirmation that the SC63w requires unprotected 18650 battery. I'm a flashlight newbie but I actually unsure if I like to take the risk and buy this flashlight because of this...
> 
> 
> *Customer*
> 1/8/2016 3:28:40 PMHi,
> 
> Should I use a Protected/Unprotected 18650 battery for the following flashlight?
> 
> SC63w 18650 XHP35 Flashlight Neutral White
> Item Id:ZLSC63w
> 
> 
> 
> *Staff (Administrator)*
> 1/9/2016 11:19:38 AMMust use unprotected 18650 batteries.
> 
> http://www.zebralight.com/Panasonic...-Battery-ship-to-US-customers-only_p_176.html



It is no risk because the light has an excellent protection circuit of its own. The unprotected cell is so that it physically fits.


----------



## sdr

waxing twilight said:


> Nice, thanks SDR! MKIII tint looks perfect.
> 
> Have you noticed any difference in spill, hotspot, throw, or beam angle between the various emitters used? They appear pretty uniform from the pic with perhaps the original sc600 having a slightly tighter hotspot, but wider spill?



Yes. And here's the simple answer to your question:

Mk I - Bright
Mk II - Brighter
Mk III - Brightest

Terms like "Throw" and "Hotspot" are generally not associated with the SC600 series of flashlights. My experience based upon when I still had my cool white version of the Mk II was that it *seemed* to have a somewhat tighter hotspot over a relatively short distance. But what is most noticeable about all three variations are the amount of flood, or wall of light, that each one of these lights produce. And in that regard my simple answer really says it all: Bright, Brighter, Brightest - In order of production, I, II and III. They just keep getting better!


----------



## sidecross

geokite said:


> So current capacity of the battery is NOT a requirement for the MkIII, as ZL is only requiring a particular length battery. ZL is not requiring a minimum capacity 18650.
> 
> So, as ZL has said on reddit, the reason for going to 65mm cells is the fact they are unprotected, and they are shorter. Nothing else. Not what current they can supply
> 
> Steve


The link I provided give the information on all the batteries listed and a quick read will show the links among capacity, amps, and length. The battery Zebralight is offering, Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh 10A 18650 Li-ion Battery, is the kind of battery specification you would want for the Mk lll.


----------



## geokite

sidecross said:


> The link I provided give the information on all the batteries listed and a quick read will show the links among capacity, amps, and length. The battery Zebralight is offering, Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh 10A 18650 Li-ion Battery, is the kind of battery specification you would want for the Mk lll.




The fact that the battery that ZL is selling can output 10A does not mean that the MkIII needs a 10A battery, or else ZL would state such a requirement on the product page. I see them selling this battery because of the capacity and (obviously) the length.

Is there any reason older, lower capacity, 65mm cells could not be used? If someone says 'current', how do you know this? The additional 0.8A?

Steve


----------



## Mr Floppy

geokite said:


> Is there any reason older, lower capacity, 65mm cells could not be used? If someone says 'current', how do you know this? The additional 0.8A?



Discharge rate. A 2000mAh 18650 rated for a max of 2C continuous can be used but you're going to hurt your battery a bit.


----------



## snowlover91

geokite said:


> The fact that the battery that ZL is selling can output 10A does not mean that the MkIII needs a 10A battery, or else ZL would state such a requirement on the product page. I see them selling this battery because of the capacity and (obviously) the length.
> 
> Is there any reason older, lower capacity, 65mm cells could not be used? If someone says 'current', how do you know this? The additional 0.8A?
> 
> Steve



You want a battery that can pull, imo, at least 10amps continuous. The one they sell is good because it handles that fine while offering a 3500mah capacity. If it's like the MK3 it probably pulls 3-4 amps on a fresh battery but as voltage goes down that might go up to 4+ amps. That's why I would go with 10 it gives you plenty of room.


----------



## 18650

geokite said:


> The fact that the battery that ZL is selling can output 10A does not mean that the MkIII needs a 10A battery, or else ZL would state such a requirement on the product page. I see them selling this battery because of the capacity and (obviously) the length. Is there any reason older, lower capacity, 65mm cells could not be used? If someone says 'current', how do you know this? The additional 0.8A? Steve


 Lower capacity as in Ah? Voltage sag at greater than 3A loads. They won't be able to keep up on high unless the batteries are fresh off the charger and only for a few minutes.


----------



## InspectHerGadget

I've put some hours on the Mk3 with just the normal NCR18650B green unprotected cells with no issues. Run fine.


----------



## light-wolff

I measured battery current on max in several states of charge: it never went over 4.1A. Any battery can take that. The MK III isn't hard to the batteries.
Obviously, before it steps down, it first reduces battery current draw when battery voltage decreases below a certain point. OTOH this means reduced output.



sidecross said:


> It is the capacity of the battery of the battery not its length that determines amps. http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html


Yes. But higher capacity means lower amps (comparing cell technology of same age).



geokite said:


> ...Is there any reason older, lower capacity, 65mm cells could not be used? If someone says 'current', how do you know this? The additional 0.8A?


If they can take 5A there is no reason. Even the good old 2600mAh Sanyo UR18650F could be used without any danger, but with performance penalty.



InspectHerGadget said:


> I've put some hours on the Mk3 with just the normal NCR18650B green unprotected cells with no issues. Run fine.


As expected. No problem with this cell.

The recommended NCR18650GA is currently the best cell for this light, regarding runtime and overall performance. It is the best cell for many flashlights, BTW.

For better sub-zero temperature performance one might want to use a high-current cell like LG HE4, HG2, SDI 25R or 30Q.


----------



## sidecross

geokite said:


> The fact that the battery that ZL is selling can output 10A does not mean that the MkIII needs a 10A battery, or else ZL would state such a requirement on the product page. I see them selling this battery because of the capacity and (obviously) the length.
> 
> Is there any reason older, lower capacity, 65mm cells could not be used? If someone says 'current', how do you know this? The additional 0.8A?
> 
> Steve


You are correct! Again, I cannot supply detailed information in just one post. The link I provided has a great quantity of information including the ratio of capacity in mAh to amps. http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html


----------



## fnsooner

light-wolff said:


> I measured battery current on max in several states of charge: it never went over 4.1A. Any battery can take that. The MK III isn't hard to the batteries.


Just curious, did you check the current using a high drain cell similar to the one Zebralight sells? I am just trying to determine if the 4.1A you are reading is the limitation of the battery or is it where the SC MK III regulates the current at its max. 

I have a couple of direct drive single cell flashlights that I check battery integrity with. Depending on the battery, I can read from 3-6A. The flashlights work fine with these batteries but the maximum output is just limited depending on which battery is used.


----------



## Roger Ranger

Just checking. Is anyone having trouble getting products when ordering from Zebralight direct? I ordered an SC600MKlll on December 18th, got charged for it on December 19th and am still waiting on January 10th for my light. Last time I ordered from them it took one day to process. When I contact them, they say that they are very busy. Is Zebralight going out of business? Their website is pretty basic, with no way of seeing the progress of the sale.
Last week, I decided that I wasn't going to order direct from Zebralight anymore. Now, I'm ready to take a hammer to all of my Zebralights and send them a picture. Great lights, lousy sales department.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Q: is it true that an undocumented feature of the MKii L2 is the ability to run CR123a primary cells, on M and L levels, in a pinch (outage)? What about the SC62?

If yes, it must follow that this "feature" went away with the MKIII... Right?


----------



## sidecross

ozzie_c_cobblepot said:


> Q: is it true that an undocumented feature of the MKii L2 is the ability to run CR123a primary cells, on M and L levels, in a pinch (outage)? What about the SC62?
> 
> If yes, it must follow that this "feature" went away with the MKIII... Right?


The Zebralight web site gives basic information on each lights voltage; some can handle 6 volts but I think not at full power. If you need to have the ability to handle both 18650 and CR123a batteries, a Zebralight should not be a primary used light.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Roger Ranger said:


> Just checking. Is anyone having trouble getting products when ordering from Zebralight direct? I ordered an SC600MKlll on December 18th, got charged for it on December 19th and am still waiting on January 10th for my light. Last time I ordered from them it took one day to process. When I contact them, they say that they are very busy. Is Zebralight going out of business? Their website is pretty basic, with no way of seeing the progress of the sale.
> Last week, I decided that I wasn't going to order direct from Zebralight anymore. Now, I'm ready to take a hammer to all of my Zebralights and send them a picture. Great lights, lousy sales department.





Taking a hammer to any of your Zebralights would be like assaulting members of your family!

Calm down and enjoy what the night brings when you go walking around with those nice EDC lights.

If you do take a hammer to your Zebralights make sure the images are of good quality please and place some pictures here on CPF.


----------



## holygeez03

sidecross said:


> The Zebralight web site gives basic information on each lights voltage; some can handle 6 volts but I think not at full power. If you need to have the ability to handle both 18650 and CR123a batteries, a Zebralight should not be a primary used light.




The SC600 MKIII specs clearly state an operating range up to 6.0 volts... so I would think that 2xCR123 is fine, as long as they will fit?


----------



## holygeez03

Roger Ranger said:


> Just checking. Is anyone having trouble getting products when ordering from Zebralight direct? I ordered an SC600MKlll on December 18th, got charged for it on December 19th and am still waiting on January 10th for my light. Last time I ordered from them it took one day to process. When I contact them, they say that they are very busy. Is Zebralight going out of business? Their website is pretty basic, with no way of seeing the progress of the sale.
> Last week, I decided that I wasn't going to order direct from Zebralight anymore. Now, I'm ready to take a hammer to all of my Zebralights and send them a picture. Great lights, lousy sales department.



ZL is certainly not known for having the greatest communication for transactions and shipping status... they are known for making lights that satisfactorily fulfill a need for a lot of advanced users. The MKIII is brand new and has a HUGE demand, so be patient or cancel your order and buy something available on Amazon.


----------



## snowlover91

Roger Ranger said:


> Just checking. Is anyone having trouble getting products when ordering from Zebralight direct? I ordered an SC600MKlll on December 18th, got charged for it on December 19th and am still waiting on January 10th for my light. Last time I ordered from them it took one day to process. When I contact them, they say that they are very busy. Is Zebralight going out of business? Their website is pretty basic, with no way of seeing the progress of the sale.
> Last week, I decided that I wasn't going to order direct from Zebralight anymore. Now, I'm ready to take a hammer to all of my Zebralights and send them a picture. Great lights, lousy sales department.




They have a small staff from what I understand and extremely high demand for all their new lights. They ship new releases in "batches" so if you had preordered early you might have received a light when many on here did. Since you didn't it may not be until the 2nd or 3rd batch before they can get one to you. You may want to cancel your order and wait until they get sufficient quantities in for the light, it's currently listed as "back order" which usually takes awhile to receive. I have contacted them about random things recently and received prompt and courteous responses. I would suggest giving them some time if you really want the light now or if you're impatient I would go ahead and cancel.


----------



## sidecross

snowlover91 said:


> They have a small staff from what I understand and extremely high demand for all their new lights. They ship new releases in "batches" so if you had preordered early you might have received a light when many on here did. Since you didn't it may not be until the 2nd or 3rd batch before they can get one to you. You may want to cancel your order and wait until they get sufficient quantities in for the light, it's currently listed as "back order" which usually takes awhile to receive. I have contacted them about random things recently and received prompt and courteous responses. I would suggest giving them some time if you really want the light now or if you're impatient I would go ahead and cancel.


This is very good statement and I agree with it. Zebralight like many other very good products is not like buying toothpaste. A waiting period is not unusual, and is a good sign you are buying a quality purchase.


----------



## snowlover91

sidecross said:


> This is very good statement and I agree with it. Zebralight like many other very good products is not like buying toothpaste. A waiting period is not unusual, and is a good sign you are buying a quality purchase.



I look at it this way, when Apple releases a new device like the iPhone people are willing to wait weeks or sometimes months to get one in their hand. They'll stand in line for hours, call stores everywhere, etc until they can get one. Sometimes people will preorder and still have to wait a few weeks due to high demand. Although Zebralight is a completely different company and nowhere near the size of Apple, their products have now become so popular that when a new one is released if you didn't preorder you may have to wait a month or two. The demand is higher than they can keep up with especially right after Christmas and with 2 more new lights coming out soon. For a small company they're doing well and the fact that they're still responding to my inquiries about future products (most companies don't do this btw) is a good sign. They may be a little slow to respond when super busy but they do take care of their customers. 

Someone on here recently sent off 3 lights with fracked frosted lenses and it took a little longer than expected. The rep from ZL called this person back to update him about the status and the lights were received not too long after. They even threw in a headband/strap for one of the lights for free. That's pretty good customer service and they've always treated me well with any questions or concerns I have.


----------



## sidecross

snowlover91 said:


> I look at it this way, when Apple releases a new device like the iPhone people are willing to wait weeks or sometimes months to get one in their hand. They'll stand in line for hours, call stores everywhere, etc until they can get one. Sometimes people will preorder and still have to wait a few weeks due to high demand. Although Zebralight is a completely different company and nowhere near the size of Apple, their products have now become so popular that when a new one is released if you didn't preorder you may have to wait a month or two. The demand is higher than they can keep up with especially right after Christmas and with 2 more new lights coming out soon. For a small company they're doing well and the fact that they're still responding to my inquiries about future products (most companies don't do this btw) is a good sign. They may be a little slow to respond when super busy but they do take care of their customers.
> 
> Someone on here recently sent off 3 lights with fracked frosted lenses and it took a little longer than expected. The rep from ZL called this person back to update him about the status and the lights were received not too long after. They even threw in a headband/strap for one of the lights for free. That's pretty good customer service and they've always treated me well with any questions or concerns I have.


I have had the same excellent service from Zebrlight http://www.zebralight.com/ and they have been prompt in answering my questions. I do not mind waiting if that is done because off making sure quality control is not short changed. :thumbsup:


----------



## jhe888

Roger Ranger, I don't think their supply has caught up with orders yet. I ordered mine on December 4, and got it just after the New Year. They are still catching up. I agree they don't do very well with communications, but there is no problem other than that.

I think it was worth the wait.


----------



## light-wolff

fnsooner said:


> Just curious, did you check the current using a high drain cell similar to the one Zebralight sells? I am just trying to determine if the 4.1A you are reading is the limitation of the battery or is it where the SC MK III regulates the current at its max.


I tested with NCR18650GA, but the battery doesn't matter. It is not a battery limitation, but driver-controlled.



fnsooner said:


> I have a couple of direct drive single cell flashlights that I check battery integrity with. Depending on the battery, I can read from 3-6A. The flashlights work fine with these batteries but the maximum output is just limited depending on which battery is used.


There is a huge difference between direct drive and step-up converter.


----------



## fnsooner

Thanks light-wolf. I am definitely not a driver/LED expert. I am just trying to wrap my head around this light and the new XHP35 and the reason for using unprotected cells exclusively. Hmm, 4.1A isn’t’ very extreme at all. Personally, I don’t have a problem with unprotected cells, just trying to figure out the decision making behind changing my favorite flashlight.

All the talk about the battery requirements for this light was just speculation until we found out how hard the battery was going to be pushed, so I have been waiting for this information. I guess 4.1A is still enough to create problems for those using poor performing batteries with PCB protection built in, but battery length appears to be the big reason for the decision to choose unprotected cells. 

On another note, I see that Acebeam is coming out with a light equipped with an XHP35. It is said to put out 2500 lumens. I wonder if ZL has plans for another 6330 run using this LED. The XHP35 appears to be very versatile.


----------



## markr6

I was pulling around 3.2A on my MKIII, so not too worried about even basic cells like the NCR18650B. But I bought a lot of 18650GA so that's all I'm using now just because they're a great all-around cell.


----------



## Fireclaw18

fnsooner said:


> Thanks light-wolf. I am definitely not a driver/LED expert. I am just trying to wrap my head around this light and the new XHP35 and the reason for using unprotected cells exclusively. Hmm, 4.1A isn’t’ very extreme at all. Personally, I don’t have a problem with unprotected cells, just trying to figure out the decision making behind changing my favorite flashlight.
> 
> All the talk about the battery requirements for this light was just speculation until we found out how hard the battery was going to be pushed, so I have been waiting for this information. I guess 4.1A is still enough to create problems for those using poor performing batteries with PCB protection built in, but battery length appears to be the big reason for the decision to choose unprotected cells.
> 
> On another note, I see that Acebeam is coming out with a light equipped with an XHP35. It is said to put out 2500 lumens. I wonder if ZL has plans for another 6330 run using this LED. The XHP35 appears to be very versatile.


If you're worried about high amps, maybe buy a supply of Samsung 30Q 18650 cells. They'll pull 9 amps in a triple XPL light, and 12 amps with triple Nichia 219C. The 3.2 amps from a Zebralight should be nothing to them.


----------



## recDNA

jhe888 said:


> Roger Ranger, I don't think their supply has caught up with orders yet. I ordered mine on December 4, and got it just after the New Year. They are still catching up. I agree they don't do very well with communications, but there is no problem other than that.
> 
> I think it was worth the wait.


With HDS and Zebralights I wait until dealers get them then purchase from dealers who will tell you if the item is in stock. Except for waiting lists and special group buys I do not think manufacturers should accept payment until they have the item in stock.


----------



## sidecross

recDNA said:


> With HDS and Zebralights I wait until dealers get them then purchase from dealers who will tell you if the item is in stock. Except for waiting lists and special group buys I do not think manufacturers should accept payment until they have the item in stock.


I usually feel the same way, but I do make a rare exception if I feel the product is exceptional and I want to show my support by making an exception. :thumbsup:


----------



## jhe888

I agree, and had I known it would take a month to get mine, I would have waited. I went by the ship date, which they missed in the first place, and when they did come in for the first shipment, they didn't have enough for all pending orders. I don't mind a pre-order, but I don't think they should charge you until they have goods to ship.

I was just telling the poster that he will get it, not that I like that marketing scheme.


----------



## Thujone

Well this is a first for me... I just ordered the SC63w blind. We are crazy right? Not so much as a photo and we are sending loads of money to ZL? Guess that speaks to the level of trust they have earned.


----------



## light-wolff

Fireclaw18 said:


> If you're worried about high amps, maybe buy a supply of Samsung 30Q 18650 cells. They'll pull 9 amps in a triple XPL light, and 12 amps with triple Nichia 219C. The 3.2 amps from a Zebralight should be nothing to them.


The runtime on highest mode with Samsung 30Q is 2-3 minutes shorter than with NCR GA. In lower modes, the difference increases in favour of the NCR GA.


----------



## Fireclaw18

light-wolff said:


> The runtime on highest mode with Samsung 30Q is 2-3 minutes shorter than with NCR GA. In lower modes, the difference increases in favour of the NCR GA.



Agreed. The NCR 18650 GA beats the Samsung 30Q for relatively low-current applications like these Zebralights. The 30Q shines more in hot-rodded lights pulling far more amps.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Thanks Fireclaw18 for continued good information. I did not look to see if anyone has pointed out the available pictures for the SC62w. It looks very nice to me.

http://www.zebralight.com/SC63w-18650-XHP35-Flashlight-Neutral-White_p_177.html


----------



## oneinthaair

KITROBASKIN said:


> Thanks Fireclaw18 for continued good information. I did not look to see if anyone has pointed out the available pictures for the SC62w. It looks very nice to me.
> 
> http://www.zebralight.com/SC63w-18650-XHP35-Flashlight-Neutral-White_p_177.html



I don't like it! Glad I got a 62w


----------



## holygeez03

Agreed... surprisingly terrible aesthetics.


----------



## gunga

Hmmm. Not so nice.


----------



## insanefred

No matter what, it still looks infinitely better than ocean of black anodized flashlights out there. Still, if I wasn't so addicted to the angled lights out there, I might consider one.


----------



## psychbeat

I sorta like it - looks like my H600w but less ribbed. Kinda vintage. 
I'll probably buy the MK3 w headlamp when it's released.


----------



## Fireclaw18

Looks like a throwback to the SC60. Back then I think they made the body tubes smooth because they wanted the light to be usable as a headlight and knurling wouldn't fit easily into the headband.

I don't like it. A fully functional EDC needs to be grippy and feel secure in the hand. This looks worse than the SC62 and appears to be a step backwards.


----------



## scs

Not the best looking...a lot less tough in appearance...almost a bit feminine...
Appearances aside, I'm more concerned about whether the lack of knurling and ribs means the darn thing will slip out of my hand.


----------



## Jobeanie123

I just noticed that the non-ribbed middle appears to be slightly concave. Interesting. 

The head is also rounded off like the old SC60 was, although I sort of like the squared off fins on the SC62. Still, it should be a great light, and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one!


----------



## Jobeanie123

This has got me thinking...






That's probably the Zebralight equivalent of blasphemy, but I couldn't help but feel they just stretched out one middle rib extra long. It still has a clip, though, so that would be convenient.


----------



## insanefred

Jobeanie123 said:


> This has got me thinking...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably the Zebralight equivalent of blasphemy, but I couldn't help but feel they just stretched out one middle rib extra long. It still has a clip, though, so that would be convenient.



Make it longer please!


----------



## Jobeanie123

insanefred said:


> Make it longer please!



If you insist... http://i.imgur.com/gFxO5G3


----------



## oeL

KITROBASKIN said:


> http://www.zebralight.com/SC63w-18650-XHP35-Flashlight-Neutral-White_p_177.html



I like Zebralight for their courageous style far away from any mainstream. The first time I held a SC600 in my hands, my mind formed the association "russian submarine style". The SC63w reminds me of a piece of wood turnery. Very unfamiliar, a beauty of it's own... I like it! When the box arrives I'll give away my old SC62w to a friend of mine.


----------



## fnsooner

Fireclaw18 said:


> If you're worried about high amps, maybe buy a supply of Samsung 30Q 18650 cells. They'll pull 9 amps in a triple XPL light, and 12 amps with triple Nichia 219C. The 3.2 amps from a Zebralight should be nothing to them.



Nah, to the contrary. I was hoping that Zebralight was going to push this light a little harder. There hasn’t been much talk about tail cap current on ZL’s new XHP35 and since I don’t own one yet, I was just pestering light-wolf for some clarification. 

I have a couple of different cells that will fit and handle this light but I might pick up a couple of the Samsung 30Q 18650 cells. Thanks.


----------



## seasam

the SC63 is pretty ugly but that answers how ZL was able to make the SC600 lighter. by shaving it. like a poodle or something


----------



## markr6

Ugly, 1950's looking deal here. But I think I'll keep my preorder in...I have to at least try it.


----------



## Roger Ranger

Thanks to all for your responses. I'm still waiting. My real problem with Zebralight is that they charged my credit card the day after I ordered the light. I really like their products, but I'm very unhappy with their sales and customer service. At this point, I'm annoyed enough to contest the charge with my credit card company. I've contacted them twice and haven't gotten any explanation, other than that it's Christmas. Is Zebralight a mom and pop operation? I've not seen this type of behavior from Fenix, Nitecore or Thrunite, etc. Didn't realize the MKlll's were such a hot item.


----------



## markr6

Roger Ranger said:


> Thanks to all for your responses. I'm still waiting. My real problem with Zebralight is that they charged my credit card the day after I ordered the light. I really like their products, but I'm very unhappy with their sales and customer service. At this point, I'm annoyed enough to contest the charge with my credit card company. I've contacted them twice and haven't gotten any explanation, other than that it's Christmas. Is Zebralight a mom and pop operation? I've not seen this type of behavior from Fenix, Nitecore or Thrunite, etc. Didn't realize the MKlll's were such a hot item.



I think it's just a few people here in TX, and manufacturing in China. Not a big operation like the other guys. I have a feeling it started as a hobby/passion by the owner(s) and they put a lot of thought into their lights. They have a strong following. Almost like something between the big manufacturers and custom builders. Not for everyone, though.

I never really gave it a thought about charging my card before shipping. I think a lot of places I buy from online do that. Even Amazon! Of course, we're talking 2-3 days instead of 45 days! I don't mind since that way there are no surprises; pay and be done. The product will show up; they didn't stay in business this long by stealing money.


----------



## snowlover91

Roger Ranger said:


> Thanks to all for your responses. I'm still waiting. My real problem with Zebralight is that they charged my credit card the day after I ordered the light. I really like their products, but I'm very unhappy with their sales and customer service. At this point, I'm annoyed enough to contest the charge with my credit card company. I've contacted them twice and haven't gotten any explanation, other than that it's Christmas. Is Zebralight a mom and pop operation? I've not seen this type of behavior from Fenix, Nitecore or Thrunite, etc. Didn't realize the MKlll's were such a hot item.



Ive preordered from a lot of places and most of them either fully charge your card when you preorder or they place a hold on your card for the amount. There is actually a valid reason why places do this, I work retail so I looked into this because I've had customers ask. The reason many places do this is because by preordering they are specifically ordering an item for you, and hundreds of others too. So let's say a new movie comes out and normally a company would order 10 of them (small numbers for the sake of simplicity). Now they get 5 preorders so instead of 10 movies they'll be getting in 15. The company itself needs the money from your preorder to pay for the production of the item or to order it in, think of this on a large scale with thousands of preorders how much it would cost the company upfront if they didn't charge you until the item shipped. They might have to spend 100k out of pocket to get the preorders in/made/ordered and a small company like ZL especially doesn't have cash flow to make all these preorders unless they actually get the money upfront. Essentially the money from your preorder is being used to pay for the production, parts and assembly of the specific light that will be yours. This is the reason many places decide to get the money upfront because it helps with their cash flow and being able to get the product in. 

Zebralight isn't the only place to do this though, I've preordered from other companies and been charged the full amount and the item may not be scheduled for release until 2-3 months later. It gives you the opportunity to reserve your copy, pay for it now and enjoy the item when it does come. Nothing unusual about this at all. If you don't want to go through that with ZL or anywhere else you preorder something you're better off to just wait until it's readily available for shipping then order. I preordered two lights from them for $190 total but won't receive them until mid February most likely. I'm fine with it because I had to pay for them at some point and would rather get it out of the way now and then enjoy the product when it's here.


----------



## Roger Ranger

On December 18th, there was no red banner notice, as there is now, informing me that the light was pre-order only. The only other time I have ordered direct from Zebralight, the light shipped the next day. I just e-mailed them, asking for a shipping date. We'll see.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

I think the rounded head looks pretty neat IMHO. Would maybe have liked one more rib with a smaller smooth section, but will see how she looks in person.


----------



## snowlover91

Roger Ranger said:


> On December 18th, there was no red banner notice, as there is now, informing me that the light was pre-order only. The only other time I have ordered direct from Zebralight, the light shipped the next day. I just e-mailed them, asking for a shipping date. We'll see.



I believe it was placed on back order status immediately after they took the preorder banner down so either way it should have said preorder or back order. They will get you your product and it will be worth it


----------



## Nuppet

I think the SC63w looks nice and I'll buy one when it is available from NKON.nl


----------



## Thujone

Guess I will stick with my order. But damn... This is not the first time I have disliked the look of a Zebralight.. I am hoping in hand it is a nicer than it looks. The SC62 was amazing looking


----------



## holygeez03

Jobeanie123 said:


> If you insist... http://i.imgur.com/gFxO5G3




Best walking stick EVER!!!


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Contesting the charge with the cc company is pretty serious. Before doing that, I would ask ZL for a refund/cancellation. They're a good company, by all accounts.


----------



## geokite

I like it. Knurling would be great in the center section, but I usually use mine with a lanyard around my wrist. Just hope they put a label on it.

I'm going to hold off to see what their 5000K High CRI version can do. And to see what the feedback on the tailcap pogo-pins is.

Steve


----------



## recDNA

sidecross said:


> I usually feel the same way, but I do make a rare exception if I feel the product is exceptional and I want to show my support by making an exception. [emoji106]


I do not want to show support to anybody selling something they don't have yet without warning you first. I have no problem with preordering as long as you KNOW you are preordering.


----------



## sidecross

recDNA said:


> I do not want to show support to anybody selling something they don't have yet without warning you first.


I have no argument with your statement and agree that your point of view is reasonable. :thumbsup:


----------



## Lumencrazy

Is it legal for a seller to actually process a credit card knowing there is no inventory? No opinions please, there is a correct answer to this question.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I do not want to show support to anybody selling something they don't have yet without warning you first. I have no problem with preordering as long as you KNOW you are preordering.



I agree with you there, it's not a good practice for the company to let someone order something without informing that there will be a delay in shipment. However I know that once they took the preorder down it did still give an option to order but it said "backorder" instead of preorder. Imo that's pretty clear they don't have it currently in stock and if you order something that's on backorder you know it may take a few weeks or months to get it. I check Zebralights website daily so I remember seeing this change. Either way the OP would have ordered with the "preorder" message or "backorder" message, both implying a wait for the product.


----------



## snowlover91

Lumencrazy said:


> Is it legal for a seller to actually process a credit card knowing there is no inventory? No opinions please, there is a correct answer to this question.



I'm sure they can so long as they actually get you the product. I work retail and we order things for customers all the time that we may not have in stock at any retail store and they have to pay upfront and wait for the item to come in. It may take a few days or a few weeks depending on the item ordered, for example the iPhone people wait sometimes 1-2 months to get it in when no retail store and even our warehouses have no inventory. We have to wait on Apple to send us the product but we can place the order and collect full payment without actually having it.

Also just for clarity in this when ZL took the "preorder" info down they put the status as "backorder" which clearly implies there may be a delay in receiving said product.


----------



## scs

I think this is the response Roger Ranger was looking for when he contacted ZL: "We do apologize for the shipping delay. We are working diligently to process a large volume of orders; there's quite a demand for these lights.  We really hope you can continue to wait. Should you choose not to, please respond to this email and we'll give you a full refund ASAP. Thank you for supporting our innovative products.
I think something like this would have been a more satisfactory response rather than "it's because of Christmas."


----------



## jak

Lumencrazy said:


> Is it legal for a seller to actually process a credit card knowing there is no inventory? No opinions please, there is a correct answer to this question.


Yes.


----------



## holygeez03

Does it make a difference if you purchase something as a "pre order"?


----------



## snowlover91

holygeez03 said:


> Does it make a difference if you purchase something as a "pre order"?



Not really. Preorder doesn't guarantee you'll get it as soon as they have it it just reserves your spot to get it before those who don't preorder. Like a signup list. Depending on where you are on the list you may have to wait longer for your preorder but you are guaranteed one before everyone else who didn't place a preorder.


----------



## Roger Ranger

snowlover91 said:


> I believe it was placed on back order status immediately after they took the preorder banner down so either way it should have said preorder or back order. They will get you your product and it will be worth it



I just noticed something. We are talking about two different ZLSC600's. I am purchasing a "ZLSC600 Mk3", which has the regular old cool white XHP35 emitter. The "ZLSC600 Mk3" is not on pre-order or back-order. The "ZLSC600w3HI", the light with the XHP35 high intensity emitter, is now on pre-order. (I have a number of Vinh's lights, but the beam pattern of the Mk2 and Mk3, 80/10, is really what I want.) I guess that they just stretched things a little to tight at Christmas and got backed up. I'll wait. I want that light.


----------



## jhe888

Lumencrazy, there is not, in fact, always an unambiguously clear answer to a legal question like that. Sometimes an informed legal opinion is the best you can get.

But, in this case, if the seller is clear he doesn't have any to ship now, it is proper to charge a card in advance.


----------



## snowlover91

Roger Ranger said:


> I just noticed something. We are talking about two different ZLSC600's. I am purchasing a "ZLSC600 Mk3", which has the regular old cool white XHP35 emitter. The "ZLSC600 Mk3" is not on pre-order or back-order. The "ZLSC600w3HI", the light with the XHP35 high intensity emitter, is now on pre-order. (I have a number of Vinh's lights, but the beam pattern of the Mk2 and Mk3, 80/10, is really what I want.) I guess that they just stretched things a little to tight at Christmas and got backed up. I'll wait. I want that light.



The MK3 with CW emitter is currently still listed as "back order" on Zebralights website? The HI version is preorder.


----------



## Roger Ranger

snowlover91 said:


> The MK3 with CW emitter is currently still listed as "back order" on Zebralights website? The HI version is preorder.



Is true. I shut up now.


----------



## sidecross

snowlover91 said:


> The MK3 with CW emitter is currently still listed as "back order" on Zebralights website? The HI version is preorder.


My SC600 Mk III 18650 XHP35 Flashlight Cool White ordered 1/7/16 is listed as "Back Order".

'ZLSC600w3HI' is a SC600w Mk III 18650 Flashlight with Neutral White High Intensity XHP35 while 'ZLSC600 Mk3' is a
SC600 Mk III 18650 XHP35 Flashlight Cool White.

XHP35 is not the same as High Intensity XHP35


----------



## CL97405

sidecross said:


> XHP35 is not the same as High Intensity XHP35



Interesting. Is the latter factory dedomed? The pics and lumens listed on Cree's website for the respective products appear to suggest that may be the case.


----------



## richardcpf

CL97405 said:


> Interesting. Is the latter factory dedomed? The pics and lumens listed on Cree's website for the respective products appear to suggest that may be the case.



It uses a flat dome which increases throw, but technically it is not de-domed.


----------



## Fireclaw18

CL97405 said:


> Interesting. Is the latter factory dedomed? The pics and lumens listed on Cree's website for the respective products appear to suggest that may be the case.




HI = High Intensity.

This is CREE's new flat dome. They have also been available in XPLs since last year.

Throw is almost as good as a true dedomed emitter. However, unlike a dedome there is NO tint shift. The tint is as good as any traditional domed emitter... just with much more throw.

Personally, I consider HI emitters to be much superior to dedoming, because of the lack of tint-shift.


----------



## holygeez03

How can it eliminate any tint shift? Is it because the light doesn't immediately transmit through air?


----------



## carl

The HI version seems to be the same emitter, just a flat dome instead of a spherical dome. And with no tint shift as previously mentioned. Why? One theory is that mechanically removing the dome slightly disturbs/damages the surface of the LED...but I don't know the answer since I don't have the facts on that question. There, I said it, "I don't know". lol.

Some modders carefully slice off the top 2/3 of the dome to get more throw - Vinh has a youtube on flat-doming an XHP70 or MKR using a razor blade, if I recall. It looks easy, with a steady hand. Or maybe he makes it look easy. I may try it someday. 

If the same basic emitter is used on both flat-dome and spherical-dome LEDs, I still don't understand why HI LEDs are usually offered only in lower output bins than their spherical-domed counterpart. Dedoming an LED also reduces max light output. This is the 'only' down-side to getting an HI - lower light output.


----------



## scs

holygeez03 said:


> How can it eliminate any tint shift? Is it because the light doesn't immediately transmit through air?



I believe the tint of the emitter is controlled by both the phosphor layer and the refraction caused by the dome, hence the tint shift after removing the dome. With the dome intact, the refraction caused by the dome also produces tint variation across the cross section of the beam, from spot to corona to spill.

The mostly flat, clear layer used to seal the the HI emitters causes less refraction, so contributes less to the final tint, most of which is already determined by the phosphor.


----------



## scs

carl said:


> The HI version seems to be the same emitter, just a flat dome instead of a spherical dome. And with no tint shift as previously mentioned. Why? One theory is that mechanically removing the dome slightly disturbs/damages the surface of the LED...but I don't know the answer since I don't have the facts on that question. There, I said it, "I don't know". lol.
> 
> Some modders carefully slice off the top 2/3 of the dome to get more throw - Vinh has a youtube on flat-doming an XHP70 or MKR using a razor blade, if I recall. It looks easy, with a steady hand. Or maybe he makes it look easy. I may try it someday.
> 
> If the same basic emitter is used on both flat-dome and spherical-dome LEDs, I still don't understand why HI LEDs are usually offered only in lower output bins than their spherical-domed counterpart. Dedoming an LED also reduces max light output. This is the 'only' down-side to getting an HI - lower light output.



I, too, still don't understand why removing the dome reduces measured output, assuming no damage to the emitter.
Is it because the dome "gathers" the rays in such a way that without it, some rays get "lost" and don't make it OTF?


----------



## RIX TUX

oeL said:


> I like Zebralight for their courageous style far away from any mainstream. The first time I held a SC600 in my hands, my mind formed the association "russian submarine style". The SC63w reminds me of a piece of wood turnery. Very unfamiliar, a beauty of it's own... I like it! When the box arrives I'll give away my old SC62w to a friend of mine.



HI, will you be my friend?


----------



## Eggs

Bugger, we just received 20 of these for a little torch shop I run and I don't want to take the risk with unprotected torches.

Now what to do with all the MK III


----------



## waxing twilight

Eggs said:


> Bugger, we just received 20 of these for a little torch shop I run and I don't want to take the risk with unprotected torches.
> 
> Now what to do with all the MK III



Zebralights have high quality protection circuitry built into them. This is apparently the reason they have moved to require unprotected cells. That would eliminate cells with unreliable/low quality protection circuitry causing problems.
However, if you end up deciding you still don't want to carry them for some reason, you should have absolutely no problem getting rid of them. They are in very high demand right now.


----------



## Eggs

waxing twilight said:


> Zebralights have high quality protection circuitry built into them. This is apparently the reason they have moved to require unprotected cells. That would eliminate cells with unreliable/low quality protection circuitry causing problems.
> However, if you end up deciding you still don't want to carry them for some reason, you should have absolutely no problem getting rid of them. They are in very high demand right now.



I don't have any doubts about the quality of Zebralight as we have stocked them for a while now without a single issue, but we have had people in the past who have done silly things, on a number of occasions we have had people recharge CR123A and we do specify very clearly that they are not rechargeable.
Anyhow best bet i think will be to chuck them on my personal eBay account.


----------



## Fireclaw18

waxing twilight said:


> Zebralights have high quality protection circuitry built into them. This is apparently the reason they have moved to require unprotected cells. That would eliminate cells with unreliable/low quality protection circuitry causing problems.
> However, if you end up deciding you still don't want to carry them for some reason, you should have absolutely no problem getting rid of them. They are in very high demand right now.



Actually I don't think that is the reason. Using a cell with a protection circuit won't affect a light with a built-in protection circuit. It isn't necessary, but isn't detrimental either.

The real reason the latest Zebralights require unprotected cells is length. The new models use the "pogo pins" that debuted in the SC5 in the tailcap instead of a conventional tailcap spring. This allowed Zebralight to shave 4mm in length from the battery compartment, but reduced the length of cells the light can handle. Protected cells are now simply too long.

As I've previously mentioned, it's too bad Zebralight didn't use the tailcap design of the DQG 18650 Tiny III and IV. That much superior tailcap design had the following advantages:
1. Handles any length 18650 cell.
2. Zero empty space in the battery compartment. Allows the light to be as short or even shorter than the possible with the new "pogo pins".
3. Better electrical connection than pogo pins.
4. Cheaper to manufacture: Zero moving parts. Tailcap can be all one piece.
5. Zero battery rattle.


----------



## waxing twilight

There were likely several considerations when making the decision to require protected cells. However, in an interview by Night Owl Gear posted on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/3v37n7/zebralight_pushing_forward_in_design/), sub-par protection circuits on 18650 cells was a reason cited for the change.
It isn't very long, but was interesting in that it did shed some light on ZL's reasoning and short term plans.



> _expect them to move to non protected cell use. There were many reasons for this but the main points centered around the following facts:
> _
> 
> 
> _People use multiple batteries, from multiple vendors, each with its own internal protection cell which may or may not do a good job of monitoring the voltage and heat of the battery in use. By having the light regulate the voltage, instead of the battery, they are able to move everything to12v, while ensuring that the battery wont overheat._
> _The main reason that lights are regulated is to protect the battery from overheating, not the bulb. This is because the bulbs can handle much higher operating temperatures than the batteries. By letting the light regulate the temperature, it can ensure that the battery never overheats._


  - from Reddit interview referenced in link above

It appears from this information that the change in length was a secondary consideration, and perhaps a means to exclude protected cells. This would also explain the change from tail cap with spring to the pogo pin design, as the decreased range of compression would also serve to prevent longer protected cells from being used, as well as increasing the current flow available through the tail cap contact.


----------



## fnsooner

I have EDC’d a ZL for around five years and from time to time I will have problems with it turning off or stepping down prematurely. My initial thoughts were that my flashlight was messing up but the cause has always been a poor performing battery. I would imagine that someone, whom only owns one cell and were to have these problems, would think that the flashlight is broken and would call ZL to complain. In fact, I have seen a few posts on these forums about these exact complaints and I figured it was always just a battery problem and not a flashlight problem.


----------



## jhe888

Eggs said:


> Bugger, we just received 20 of these for a little torch shop I run and I don't want to take the risk with unprotected torches.
> 
> Now what to do with all the MK III



The light is very well protected by Zebralight's built in protection circuit.

I think Zebralight decided that they can protect all batteries by including a good protection circuit in the light. Some batteries with built in protection have good protection and some do not. But if the light does it well, then you don't have to worry about whether the battery has good protection. And, because Zebralight has a good circuit, it can use totally unprotected cells, making the light shorter. I don't know which was Zebralight's primary motivation, but it seems like the only downside is that users who have no unprotected cells will now have to buy some.

I don't see how any of that is a source of risk to you as the seller of these lights.

Your customers will have to have some unprotected cells, but the good chargers will protect the cells in charging. I suppose that they could put the unprotected cells in a light that doesn't have good protection and get into a problem, but I don't see how that can come back to you. Under legal principles as I understand them (and while this isn't legal advice to you, I do have reason to understand the law), I can't see how you could be at any real risk for that circumstance.


----------



## markr6

It's just not something I worry about. Anyone see those cheap/"free" phone charger promotional items you can pick up at trade shows? They're usually a 2600mAh cell inside. I took one apart and there were no markings, or very little. The cell even looked cheap. Of course, it was NOT a protected cell. I bet the unit itself had some type of protection, but for a "dime-a-dozen" cost on those, I'm guessing Zebralights circuitry is MUCH, MUCH safer. But I haven't heard any reports of those blowing peoples faces off. Just imagine how many of those are out there; it's a very popular logo'ed item for companies to give away.


----------



## carl

Fireclaw18 said:


> The real reason the latest Zebralights require unprotected cells is length. The new models use the "pogo pins" that debuted in the SC5 in the tailcap instead of a conventional tailcap spring. This allowed Zebralight to shave 4mm in length from the battery compartment, but reduced the length of cells the light can handle.



The latest Foursevens MMU-X3R also got rid of the tailcap spring and incorporates pogo pins in place of a spring. Does anyone know how and why pogo-pins are shorter than a regular tailcap spring, especially since there is a spring inside the pogo-pin? Why not just replace the bigger tailcap spring with the smaller shorter pogo pin spring? Maybe the hollow pogo pin adds an extra current path. 




Fireclaw18 said:


> As I've previously mentioned, it's too bad Zebralight didn't use the tailcap design of the DQG 18650 Tiny III and IV. That much superior tailcap design had the following advantages:
> 1. Handles any length 18650 cell.
> 2. Zero empty space in the battery compartment. Allows the light to be as short or even shorter than the possible with the new "pogo pins".
> 3. Better electrical connection than pogo pins.
> 4. Cheaper to manufacture: Zero moving parts. Tailcap can be all one piece.
> 5. Zero battery rattle.



The DQG uses foam instead of springs. There must be a disadvantage of using foam since most high quality lights use springs for shock absorption. Foam is cheaper, lighter, and simple to glue in during assembly, but its not used by most other manufacturers. 

I assume foam eventually takes a permanent set and flattens out. There goes the foam 'spring' affect. This is a warranty issue (does DQG have a decent warranty?) Also, the battery ends may eventually dimple slightly and that dimple will get deeper with time. This may affect proper contact with the light and with the battery charger.


----------



## Fireclaw18

carl said:


> The DQG uses foam instead of springs.
> I assume foam eventually takes a permanent set and flattens out. Also, the battery ends eventually will dimple slightly and that dimple will get deeper with time. This may affect proper contact with the light and with the battery charger.



The foam in the DQG is optional. It's not part of the electrical contact. All the foam does is prevent the battery from rattling when the tailcap is loosened during tailcap lockout. In normal operation when the tailcap is snugged tight the foam does nothing.


----------



## uofaengr

Agreed and why I'm comfortable using high drain, modified lights like Vinh's with unprotected cells since his custom drivers and others utilize low voltage protection. In reality, most of us never let batteries get anywhere close to that low anyway. Out of all my modern lights, the only one I think I have that doesn't have low voltage protection is my TN12, and I keep a protected cell in it because that's what I bought as a noob.


----------



## Eggs

Part of my concern though is that if we do decide to stock them, then we would need to also stock unprotected cells, and we do get a lot of people who aren't as educated with batteries and being a much cheaper battery then protected cells could imagine we would get a lot of people buying them and trying to use them in other torches. While we could contact each and everyone who does buy an unprotected cell with a torch that isn't supported that could create a time consuming and frustrating experience for customers.


----------



## recDNA

I want every protection possible including pcb etc in case battery itself shorts. Easy to scrape a battery cover and not notice. High quality charger that fails to shut off when battery is charged has happened. With protected batteries you have an added level of safety I want. For good protection buy from a quality maker like AW. I also have no need or desire to drive an 18660 higher than 3 amps. Fortunately I already have a sc62w. It's a shame Zebralight has gone in this direction imo.


----------



## Eggs

recDNA said:


> I want every protection possible including pcb etc in case battery itself shorts. Easy to scrape a battery cover and not notice. High quality charger that fails to shut off when battery is charged has happened. With protected batteries you have an added level of safety I want. For good protection buy from a quality maker like AW. I also have no need or desire to drive an 18660 higher than 3 amps. Fortunately I already have a sc62w. It's a shame Zebralight has gone in this direction imo.



I couldn't agree more, specially as a re-seller and being liable for our customers


----------



## light-wolff

recDNA said:


> I want every protection possible...


True. The driver could die and short the battery. Happened to me with a brand new Olight S30R Baton. Luckily, the battery was protected.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

ZebraLight is known for not making flashlights with batteries in series, presumably as a matter of safety. A retailer can make their own decisions how to handle any issues of battery safety. Has anyone asked ZL about this matter of unprotected batteries associated with their lights?


----------



## Eggs

KITROBASKIN said:


> ZebraLight is known for not making flashlights with batteries in series, presumably as a matter of safety. A retailer can make their own decisions how to handle any issues of battery safety. Has anyone asked ZL about this matter of unprotected batteries associated with their lights?



I have asked but I think a lot of other people are asking as well as i received the below response

[Status: ERROR, Address: <[email protected]>, ResponseCode 452, <[email protected]> Domain size limit exceeded]


----------



## psychbeat

One thing to keep in mind is that the protection circuit itself adds a level of possible shorting and is only separated from grounding on the cell body by a thin layer of tape. 
I've had it happen to two AW2600 cells.
I've since exclusively used raw name brand (Panny LG etc) 

I hope I'm in the majority of users that would like the brightest, most efficient light in the smallest/lightest package using the newest emitters & with nice neutral &/or HiCRI tints. 

There are plenty of lower power hi quality lights out there (Elzetta Malkoff HDS) 

Maybe I'll start posting in those threads about how they should take 18650s & drive them harder....over and over and over and over again 

Sorry - just gets old hearing about how "nobody needs that many lumens and it should run on primary cells and it's too small and unprotected cells like in a laptop cellphone or Tesla will shoot yer eye out" ... Maybe there's a quiet group of people with maximum performance as a goal and who CAN justify the lumens (I know I can)


----------



## CL97405

On the XHP35 regular vs. high intensity topic, does anyone have a sense of how much farther the HI variant is likely to throw in a configuration like the ZL SC600 Mark III? If you don't have a tint preference but prefer as much light and throw as possible, which one is the best compromise?


----------



## Eggs

Probably a very obvious thing but i can confirm that nipple top unprotected wont work in the MK III so make sure to get flat top if you plan on running one


----------



## CL97405

Eggs said:


> Probably a very obvious thing but i can confirm that nipple top unprotected wont work in the MK III so make sure to get flat top if you plan on running one



That's interesting, since ZL sells what appear to be low profile, large button top cells based on the pic. I guess "nipple top" refers to a taller, smaller button top?
http://www.zebralight.com/Panasonic...-Battery-ship-to-US-customers-only_p_176.html


----------



## RIX TUX

I don't like the design of the body, is the head smaller? meaning the reflector and I think the protection in a zl is better than any battery so no big deal about unprotected cells. We are adults here that would buy this light with some knowledge of batteries. But if the new emitter turns out to be spectacular I am a buyer, but I am still happy with my sc62.


----------



## Eggs

CL97405 said:


> That's interesting, since ZL sells what appear to be low profile, large button top cells based on the pic. I guess "nipple top" refers to a taller, smaller button top?
> http://www.zebralight.com/Panasonic...-Battery-ship-to-US-customers-only_p_176.html



I'm sure a large button top would be fine also (since that's what they sell), this was the reply from ZL that I received

"Yes, as long as it's flat top and 65mm long."


----------



## Vol

Isn't it about time for a review?


----------



## markr6

Regarding the MKIII, I confirmed an unporotected button top does not fit weeks ago. NCR18650B and NCR18650GA button top - NO GO.


----------



## Lumencrazy

How many times does Zebralight have to say 65mm?


----------



## sidecross

Lumencrazy said:


> How many times does Zebralight have to say 65mm?


Think of it as Zebralights's Test for passing their Remedial Reading Test.


----------



## richardcpf

Lumencrazy said:


> How many times does Zebralight have to say 65mm?



I think at page 80 or so of this thread people will start to realize they can only use unprotected flat tops.


----------



## sidecross

richardcpf said:


> I think at page 80 or so of this thread people will start to realize they can only use unprotected flat tops.


On the Zebralight web page under 'Main Features and Specifications' they make it clear what the 'Operating Voltage Range' and 'Battery Length' for each model is.

It is important that every user of lithium batteries and especially the popular 18650 batteries to know the basic format of how these batteries have been developed and how they have changed to be used in powerful flashlights. 

A better understanding of 'Protected Batteries' needs to be understood. A battery labeled 'Protected Battery' without being more regulated is not always the safest battery.


----------



## InspectHerGadget

markr6 said:


> Regarding the MKIII, I confirmed an unporotected button top does not fit weeks ago. NCR18650B and NCR18650GA button top - NO GO.



The unprotected NCR18650B flat tops are fine. I guess the important parameter is the length stated in the specs so people have to check before buying.


----------



## MarkF786

Is the NCR18650GA 3500mAh battery that ZL sells a flat top or button top? It looks like a button top, but it doesn't specify either way, though it's advertised alongside the SC62 and MKIII.


----------



## sidecross

MarkF786 said:


> Is the NCR18650GA 3500mAh battery that ZL sells a flat top or button top? It looks like a button top, but it doesn't specify either way, though it's advertised alongside the SC62 and MKIII.


It is a 'flat top'.


----------



## sidecross

InspectHerGadget said:


> The unprotected NCR18650B flat tops are fine. I guess the important parameter is the length stated in the specs so people have to check before buying.


Zebralight writes in my correspondence that the designated length battery requires a 'flat top'.


----------



## light-wolff

MarkF786 said:


> Is the NCR18650GA 3500mAh battery that ZL sells a flat top or button top? It looks like a button top, but it doesn't specify either way,


The NCR18650GA, as well as the NCR18650BL, has a slightly protruding positive pole. This is rather unusual for a raw cell. The LG HE4 has a similar top. I know of no other.

It does not matter if the cell has button top or flat top. It also does not matter if it is protected or not (as long as the protection allows for 5A current).
The only thing that matters is *battery length must be 65mm*. 64mm is too short, 66mm too long. No, I don't know the exact tolerances.
So if there was a protected button top 18620 cell with 65mm length (and 18.6mm diameter): it would fit.

*Any raw 18650 cell fits in the MK III*. Raw means no added button top, no added protection, as this adds lenth.
It needn't be an NCR1860GA or BL or B or BF.
Samsing 30Q works fine will almost no runtime penalty (but no advantages either).
LG MJ1 works fine, no noticeable difference to NCR GA.
Samsung 35E dito.
etc. etc.



waxing twilight said:


> There were likely several considerations when making the decision to require protected cells. However, in an interview by Night Owl Gear posted on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/3v37n7/zebralight_pushing_forward_in_design/), sub-par protection circuits on 18650 cells was a reason cited for the change.


Don't miss the comments to that post. The post gets some things wrong, the comments explain that.

Maybe in future lights they'll revert that decision just because they get drowned in user questions.


----------



## waxing twilight

I read the comments, thought it would be helpful to give that interview a second mention as many seemed to be unaware of it. To my knowledge, that is the closest we have as to an official statement from ZL on the reasoning behind the shift to unprotected cells only. I don't recall anyone mentioning they had heard anything directly from ZL in an email etc as to the reasoning behind it.

It sounds to me, that ZL wanted to make the light shorter (as always), and saw that they could also eliminate any problems/complaints/warranty returns/etc., (or possibility of?) that are actually cell problems from using a low quality/possibly faulty protection circuitry on low quality or even damaged cells. All speculation of course, other than any statement directly from ZL, who knows what they considered. Maybe they were also looking at that small percentage of efficiency boost by eliminating the circuitry. A pile of shavings is still a pile and if they were targeting every miniscule tweak to optimize the balance between efficiency, output, and runtimes, it wouldn't seem unreasonable(to me anyway) that they had considered using strict length requirements to regulate unprotected cell use to boost efficiency.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them revert, based on all the negative feedback.
(Edited for clarity of meaning, after posting realized disconnect of thought and text.)


----------



## fnsooner

Hmm, I find it interesting that they have the SC62w on the discontinued list but have sold out of them in Irving, but they are listed as "Back Order". I wonder if they are still manufacturing them. I think it would be smart for Zebralight to keep making the 62 as long as it is selling. 

They still sell both the SC52 and SC5. I think the SC62 and SC63 are different enough to sell both. To discontinue one of the best flashlights ever made, IMO, is risky to almost reckless. They seem to have a lot of confidence in the SC63.

**Edit** After further inspection, you could say the same about the SC600w MKII L2. It is listed as discontinued in ZL's google doc, but listed as back ordered on their website.


----------



## sidecross

fnsooner said:


> Hmm, I find it interesting that they have the SC62w on the discontinued list but have sold out of them in Irving, but they are listed as "Back Order". I wonder if they are still manufacturing them. I think it would be smart for Zebralight to keep making the 62 as long as it is selling.
> 
> They still sell both the SC52 and SC5. I think the SC62 and SC63 are different enough to sell both. To discontinue one of the best flashlights ever made, IMO, is risky to almost reckless. They seem to have a lot of confidence in the SC63.
> 
> **Edit** After further inspection, you could say the same about the SC600w MKII L2. It is listed as discontinued in ZL's google doc, but listed as back ordered on their website.


The newer Zebralights and the models that they superseded should both be continued to be manufactured. 

I first bought the SC600 Mkll just after the first release of the newer Mk lll and after reconsideration I ordered the newer SC600 MK lll on 1/7/16.

Zebralight seems to be more innovative than the general public can understand; this is especially true concerning most people's knowledge of how 18650 batteries are manufactured, marketed, and advertised.

People's trust in 'protected batteries' is not questioned enough and should be examined again in respect to how these 'protected batteries' are manufactured as to their claims of 'protection'.

I like that Zebralight has taken the initiative to handle the higher current and amps in the engineering of their flashlight and have taken the concept of a 'protected battery' out of their equation.

The final result is for me a safe flashlight in the most reduced size for every day carry or use.


----------



## waxing twilight

fnsooner said:


> Hmm, I find it interesting that they have the SC62w on the discontinued list but have sold out of them in Irving, but they are listed as "Back Order". I wonder if they are still manufacturing them. I think it would be smart for Zebralight to keep making the 62 as long as it is selling.
> 
> They still sell both the SC52 and SC5. I think the SC62 and SC63 are different enough to sell both. To discontinue one of the best flashlights ever made, IMO, is risky to almost reckless. They seem to have a lot of confidence in the SC63.
> 
> **Edit** After further inspection, you could say the same about the SC600w MKII L2. It is listed as discontinued in ZL's google doc, but listed as back ordered on their website.



That's a shame. 
I agree, it would seem like a good idea to continue production of versions compatible with protected cells for those who find the change objectionable. Especially the most popular/in demand models.

Might be a good subject for market research though, maybe a poll of their regular/most frequent customers? Perhaps demand for the MK III is so strong that they need the extra manufacturing capacity to keep up?


----------



## Lumencrazy

waxing twilight said:


> I read the comments, thought it would be helpful to give that interview a second mention as many seemed to be unaware of it. To my knowledge, that is the closest we have as to an official statement from ZL on the reasoning behind the shift to unprotected cells only. I don't recall anyone mentioning they had heard anything directly from ZL in an email etc as to the reasoning behind it.
> 
> It sounds to me, that ZL wanted to make the light shorter (as always), and saw that they could also eliminate any problems/complaints/warranty returns/etc., (or possibility of?) that are actually cell problems from using a low quality/possibly faulty protection circuitry on low quality or even damaged cells. All speculation of course, other than any statement directly from ZL, who knows what they considered. Maybe they were also looking at that small percentage of efficiency boost by eliminating the circuitry. A pile of shavings is still a pile and if they were targeting every miniscule tweak to optimize the balance between efficiency, output, and runtimes, it wouldn't seem unreasonable(to me anyway) that they had considered using strict length requirements to regulate unprotected cell use to boost efficiency.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them revert, based on all the negative feedback.
> (Edited for clarity of meaning, after posting realized disconnect of thought and text.)



They are sold out. Obviuosly there is a lot of positive feedback.


----------



## waxing twilight

I agree, the feedback overall and demand seems very high for MK III. I meant the change to require only unprotected cells seems to easily be the majority of the negative feedback.


----------



## fnsooner

sidecross said:


> The newer Zebralights and the models that they superseded should both be continued to be manufactured.
> 
> I first bought the SC600 Mkll just after the first release of the newer Mk lll and after reconsideration I ordered the newer SC600 MK lll on 1/7/16.
> 
> Zebralight seems to be more innovative than the general public can understand; this is especially true concerning most people's knowledge of how 18650 batteries are manufactured, marketed, and advertised.
> 
> People's trust in 'protected batteries' is not questioned enough and should be examined again in respect to how these 'protected batteries' are manufactured as to their claims of 'protection'.
> 
> I like that Zebralight has taken the initiative to handle the higher current and amps in the engineering of their flashlight and have taken the concept of a 'protected battery' out of their equation.
> 
> The final result is for me a safe flashlight in the most reduced size for every day carry or use.



True and I agree. I have said a couple of times on these forums that Zebralight knows more about what flashlight I want than I do myself. With that mindset, I have eagerly, enthusiastically and blindly pre-ordered an SC63w…but as much confidence I have in ZL, I worry that they may be going too niche. Even the greatest companies err. I am not too worried about it myself. Shoot I own a couple of SC62ws for backup. 

It is less a reflection on how good a light the SC63 will be and more about how great I view the SC62 as being. Will the SC63w be as good of a light as the SC62w? I’ll tell you in a year or two.

Having said all that, I am looking forward to the SC63w and think it will be another awesome evolution to the SC6x series. I use unprotected cells in my EDC SC62w most of the time these days any ways. 

When I first came to these forums I was all about LSD NiMHs. I did keychain carry a Preon with a 10440 Li-ion for a year or two before I got into Li-ions for real. I was always a little edgy about it and constantly kept an eye on the charge, but 300 lumens at the time was very impressive for an AAA flashlight. The SC60 was the first 18650 light that I owned and I don’t think I have bought a NiMh powered light since. Maybe the Fenix TK70... oops forgot about the SC52w but that is because I use 14500 cells in it.

For me personally, I don’t have a problem using unprotected cells. I did get comfortable using protected ones though. I got away from these forums for a couple of years and when I came back, IMR high drains were all the rage. I saw no point in buying them since I was stocked to my eyeballs in mostly protected cells. I did have ten Panasonic CGR18650D unprotected cells(and still have them) that I got a good deal on but given the choice, I usually chose to use the protected ones. I saw no negatives to using protected cells and when I did run into a cell with a bad PCB protection circuit, I either tossed it or pulled the PCB off of it if I determined that the cell was still worthy.

From my experience, I still see no problem using protected cells. That’s the biggest reason I never really got into the debates about which is better. I felt like every one should use whatever they feel comfortable with. With the SC63, the people comfortable with protected cells are out of luck.


----------



## twistedraven

These new Zebralights have low voltage cutoffs.
Any decent charger will have overcharge protection. 

I don't get the majority of complaints surrounding 'unprotected' batteries with these new Zebralights?


----------



## fnsooner

twistedraven said:


> I don't get the majority of complaints surrounding 'unprotected' batteries with these new Zebralights?



I don't either. I think they will come around. The force is just too strong.:candle:


----------



## twistedraven

Cree has had 90+ CRI variants of their LEDs for a while now too, but they were always high voltage. Now with the new boost circuits and the batteries pushing out tons of power, we just might finally get that. The shorter length is icing on the cake.


----------



## texas cop

Technical question here. It's been posted that it draws 4.2 amps on a fresh cell. Anyone have a reading of when the cell is at 3.6v resting. I'm guessing if it's well regulated then it's probable at 5.0 amps or more as the boost converter gets less efficient as the voltage difference becomes greater. Any one care to post a few voltage/amperage plots. Please.


----------



## insanefred

Jobeanie123 said:


> If you insist... http://i.imgur.com/gFxO5G3



Must... make... it...even.... longer!!!!!!!!


----------



## Jose Marin

Just got mk iii today. Has an awful high pitch whine on all the h modes, anyone have similar problem? Drawing 2.6a on mj1 and 2.9a on 30q at full charge


----------



## carl

Please don't say your MJ1s are only running at 2.6 amps - I've got four of those batts! They're advertised to run at a constant 10 amps.


----------



## light-wolff

Jose Marin said:


> Just got mk iii today. Has an awful high pitch whine on all the h modes, anyone have similar problem? Drawing 2.6a on mj1 and 2.9a on 30q at full charge


Does it flicker?


----------



## seasam

Jose Marin said:


> Just got mk iii today. Has an awful high pitch whine on all the h modes, anyone have similar problem? Drawing 2.6a on mj1 and 2.9a on 30q at full charge



I don't have a whine on my Mk3, but I did have a whine on a SC5 that I got - I ended up sending it back as my second SC5 did not have a whine.

Quick test with my multimeter with short leads on High at tail cap (turn on):

LG MJ1 3500mAh
@4.16V = 4.3amps
@3.62V = 5.6amps


----------



## emarkd

carl said:


> Please don't say your MJ1s are only running at 2.6 amps - I've got four of those batts! They're advertised to run at a constant 10 amps.


I've got lots of MJ1s. Those are great cells and capable of plenty of current. Whatever's going on with the other guy's light, its not the MJ1s.


----------



## phantom23

seasam said:


> Quick test with my multimeter with short leads on High at tail cap (turn on):
> 
> LG MJ1 3500mAh
> @4.16V = 4.3amps
> @3.62V = 5.6amps


Are you kidding? Zebralight is nuts. All that for a minor brightness improvement?


----------



## Jose Marin

seasam said:


> I don't have a whine on my Mk3, but I did have a whine on a SC5 that I got - I ended up sending it back as my second SC5 did not have a whine.
> 
> Quick test with my multimeter with short leads on High at tail cap (turn on):
> 
> LG MJ1 3500mAh
> @4.16V = 4.3amps
> @3.62V = 5.6amps



Thanks for the info! Yeah definitely not getting close to your numbers. I'll email them and send it back



light-wolff said:


> Does it flicker?



No flickering



carl said:


> Please don't say your MJ1s are only running at 2.6 amps - I've got four of those batts! They're advertised to run at a constant 10 amps.



Nothing wrong with the mjs i have a lot of them as well, I've had them up to 6 amps on other lights


----------



## bodhran

No whine with mine though I have severe/profound hearing loss and I can't hear my wife whine either.


----------



## sidecross

seasam said:


> I don't have a whine on my Mk3, but I did have a whine on a SC5 that I got - I ended up sending it back as my second SC5 did not have a whine.
> 
> Quick test with my multimeter with short leads on High at tail cap (turn on):
> 
> LG MJ1 3500mAh
> @4.16V = 4.3amps
> @3.62V = 5.6amps


I am curious did you do a battery check by clicking the switch 4 times from the 'off' position? I usually do not try to use my batteries below 3.6 volts.


----------



## recDNA

seasam said:


> I don't have a whine on my Mk3, but I did have a whine on a SC5 that I got - I ended up sending it back as my second SC5 did not have a whine.
> 
> Quick test with my multimeter with short leads on High at tail cap (turn on):
> 
> LG MJ1 3500mAh
> @4.16V = 4.3amps
> @3.62V = 5.6amps



Too rich for my blood. You won't have to compete with me preordering one of these. I know I know they are ever so safe. Not for me.


----------



## texas cop

bodhran said:


> No whine with mine though I have severe/profound hearing loss and I can't hear my wife whine either.



You are truly blessed.


----------



## texas cop

seasam said:


> Quick test with my multimeter with short leads on High at tail cap (turn on):
> 
> LG MJ1 3500mAh
> @4.16V = 4.3amps
> @3.62V = 5.6amps



This pretty much narrows the battery choice to LG 18650MJ1, Panasonic NCR18650GA, and Samsung INR18650-30Q for myself. There are others, but these are the best for myself. Thanks for the readings. 3.2 to 3.0 volts should really put the cell into a nose dive with low voltage protection and high drain sag.


----------



## sidecross

texas cop said:


> This pretty much narrows the battery choice to LG 18650MJ1, Panasonic NCR18650GA, and Samsung INR18650-30Q for myself. There are others, but these are the best for myself. Thanks for the readings. 3.2 to 3.0 volts should really put the cell into a nose dive with low voltage protection and high drain sag.


These are the batteries I am using along with LG ICR18650E1 - 18650 - 3200mAh 4.35v. :thumbsup:


----------



## scs

seasam said:


> I don't have a whine on my Mk3, but I did have a whine on a SC5 that I got - I ended up sending it back as my second SC5 did not have a whine.
> 
> Quick test with my multimeter with short leads on High at tail cap (turn on):
> 
> LG MJ1 3500mAh
> @4.16V = 4.3amps
> @3.62V = 5.6amps



Would you measure for the lower high modes as well (non-pid)?
If they too are higher than the corresponding draws in the mark 2, I gotta ask again how the mk3 can claim equivalent run times.


----------



## seasam

sidecross said:


> I am curious did you do a battery check by clicking the switch 4 times from the 'off' position? I usually do not try to use my batteries below 3.6 volts.



I did not do a battery check - although it wouldn't have been possible as my "low voltage" MJ1 was a button top. These were two different MJ1 batteries, each voltage tested after the amp reading. The voltage readings are from my VP2 charger. This was very quick and dirty - I'll try to do some other measurements tomorrow.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Can someone give me differences between the SC600w Mk III vs. the SC600w Mk III HI ? 

I know the LED is different but what is the practical difference in performance? 

Sorry if it is in this thread somewhere. Thanks.


----------



## richardcpf

ateupwithgolf said:


> Can someone give me differences between the SC600w Mk III vs. the SC600w Mk III HI ?
> 
> I know the LED is different but what is the practical difference in performance?
> 
> Sorry if it is in this thread somewhere. Thanks.



There is no way to confirm with real world numbers until one of us receives both and measures throw at a decent distance.

But technically it should throw twice as far, maybe less considering it uses OP reflector and the overall output is reduced by ~10%. 

Oh and XHP35 HI only comes in neutral white.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Thank you Richard. Who wouldn't want one of those then?


----------



## emarkd

ateupwithgolf said:


> Thank you Richard. Who wouldn't want one of those then?



People who want a more floody light? Extra throw will come at the cost of spill intensity and that's not for everybody. Personally I think the SC63 is going to be a great pseudo-floody light, much like the SC62 is, so I personally do want the '600mk3 HI. But I can see why others may want the other one.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Well, I was thinking the SC63w is the floody version, but if you were wanting the SC600 in some form for more throw, then the HI seems like an upgrade.


----------



## seasam

SC600 MK3 On Full High at tailcap on turn on. voltage measured after amp reading on same multimeter.

Sony VTC5 -------------------4.16V / 4.20a
Panasonic NCR18650BF -----4.16V / 4.59a
Samsung 30Q ----------------4.17V / 4.31a
LG MJ1 ------------------------4.15V / 4.31a 


Samsung 30Q non-PID modes
Medium 30 lumen: 4.15V / 0.11a
High 360 Lumen: 4.15V / 0.67a


----------



## Lumencrazy

fnsooner said:


> I don't either. I think they will come around. The force is just too strong.:candle:




We are but a tiny fraction of their customer base. They know who their customers are much better than we do. If you read the forums it is mainly people expressing what they personally want. If Zebralight listened they would have 100 variations of each light and be out of business in no time.


----------



## manitoe

I just received my SC600w mkiii, but I think the dealer made a mistake and sent me a cool white instead of a neutral white :-( The beam is as cool as can be, and both the sticker on the box and the light itself say SC600 mk III, NOT SC600w ... Could anyone with a "real" SC600w please check their light and / or their box to see if the printing states that it is neutral white?

It's a nice light, but the tint is way too cool for me.


----------



## markr6

manitoe said:


> I just received my SC600w mkiii, but I think the dealer made a mistake and sent me a cool white instead of a neutral white :-( The beam is as cool as can be, and both the sticker on the box and the light itself say SC600 mk III, NOT SC600w ... Could anyone with a "real" SC600w please check their light and / or their box to see if the printing states that it is neutral white?
> 
> It's a nice light, but the tint is way too cool for me.



Description on box and light was correct for mine - received December 16.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...or-this-year&p=4799813&viewfull=1#post4799813


----------



## manitoe

Thanks a lot markr6, that confirms it. Just my luck, I got the wrong one. Now to see if the dealer is willing to cooperate


----------



## Tachead

Lumencrazy said:


> *We are but a tiny fraction of their customer base*. They know who their customers are much better than we do. If you read the forums it is mainly people expressing what they personally want. If Zebralight listened they would have 100 variations of each light and be out of business in no time.



I always hear that comment on here but, I dont think it is true at all. I think that the vast majority of Zebralight users find out about them reading on forums like this or at least research them before buying on forums like this. They are far from a mainstream brand and I personally know no one outside of this site and other flashaholic forums that even knows who they are. That includes dozens of outdoor enthusiasts who regularly use headlamps and flashlights. They are only sold factory direct or in specialty flashlight stores. I think we are their main customer base personally. You have to remember that many, many people dont join forums like this and just use them for research before buying. I myself read on this site for close to 10 years before I joined and never would have known who ZL was without this site and others.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> I always hear that comment on here but, I dont think it is true at all. I think that the vast majority of Zebralight users find out about them reading on forums like this or at least research them before buying on forums like this. They are far from a mainstream brand and I personally know no one outside of this site and other flashaholic forums that even knows who they are. That includes dozens of outdoor enthusiasts who regularly use headlamps and flashlights. They are only sold factory direct or in specialty flashlight stores. I think we are their main customer base personally. You have to remember that many, many people dont join forums like this and just use them for research before buying. I myself read on this site for close to 10 years before I joined and never would have known who ZL was without this site and others.



I actually have seen them mentioned on quite a few different websites outside of here and the other flashlight forum. I've seen it mentioned on backpacking/outdoors websites, Reddit, and other survival/outdoor oriented websites which ZL seems to be one of the most popular head lamp or EDC lights used. I rarely see much about Nitecore or Fenix on these sites it's mainly ZL. I honestly don't think we are their main customer base, you have maybe 3-5k members on here max, far less who are active posters. Selling 5k lights would hardly be enough to keep them in business. If you google Zebralight, for example, you'll come up with dozens of sites that write reviews, discussions, forums, etc outside of ZL. Additionally almost every light like the SC5, SC62, SC32 etc are on back order on their website right now which tells me they have very high demand.

Also I had ordered a SC5w from Brightguy just yesterday and received a call that they were out of stock for it. I then asked what other models they had and all they had left outside of headlamps was the SC62d and the SC32 cool white. They also mentioned they're not carrying the SC63 due to safety concerns since it only uses unprotected batteries.


----------



## markr6

Tachead said:


> I always hear that comment on here but, I dont think it is true at all. I think that the vast majority of Zebralight users find out about them reading on forums like this or at least research them before buying on forums like this.



Yes. You see them mentioned everywhere online, many forums. Backpacking light, EDC forums, whiteblaze, etc. Then you get into real specifics like caving groups. Then almost every car make's forum for doing maintenance/mod work (Jeepforum, Mustang, Impala, Corvette, Subarus, Audiworld, x1000 more). If I were Zebralight, I wouldn't be interested in retail at all at this point. Going up against that $30 plastic junk is impossible with impulse buyers and weekend warriors anyway.


----------



## LightObsession

markr6 said:


> Yes. You see them mentioned everywhere online, many forums. Backpacking light, EDC forums, whiteblaze, etc. Then you get into real specifics like caving groups. Then almost every car make's forum for doing maintenance/mod work (Jeepforum, Mustang, Impala, Corvette, Subarus, Audiworld, x1000 more). If I were Zebralight, I wouldn't be interested in retail at all at this point. Going up against that $30 plastic junk is impossible with impulse buyers and weekend warriors anyway.



Field & Stream stores are selling Fenix lights in the $100 range, so I don't see why Zebralight would be any less successful selling lights retail in places like that than Fenix. 

I told our local Field & Stream that I'd like to see them carry Zebralight and showed one of them my SC52W as an example.

Gander Mountain and other stores sell Surefire for over $100, so I don't see why Zebralight wouldn't be competitive and sell successfully in that environment. 

It seems the biggest block to Zebralight selling in retail stores is that they already find it challenging to keep the popular models in stock when selling online only. 

I wouldn't want them to sacrifice quality in order to meet a higher demand, but I sure would like to see them in more nationwide brick & mortar stores.


----------



## markr6

I didn't say they wouldn't be successful. Just that I wouldn't bother, yet, if I were them. Especially considering the long wait times. They'll need to bump up capacity to fulfill orders to retail stores, and possibly add $5-10 to the price. I could do without that.


----------



## scs

snowlover91 said:


> I actually have seen them mentioned on quite a few different websites outside of here and the other flashlight forum. I've seen it mentioned on backpacking/outdoors websites, Reddit, and other survival/outdoor oriented websites which ZL seems to be one of the most popular head lamp or EDC lights used. I rarely see much about Nitecore or Fenix on these sites it's mainly ZL. I honestly don't think we are their main customer base, you have maybe 3-5k members on here max, far less who are active posters. Selling 5k lights would hardly be enough to keep them in business. If you google Zebralight, for example, you'll come up with dozens of sites that write reviews, discussions, forums, etc outside of ZL. Additionally almost every light like the SC5, SC62, SC32 etc are on back order on their website right now which tells me they have very high demand.
> 
> Also I had ordered a SC5w from Brightguy just yesterday and received a call that they were out of stock for it. I then asked what other models they had and all they had left outside of headlamps was the SC62d and the SC32 cool white. They also mentioned they're not carrying the SC63 due to safety concerns since it only uses unprotected batteries.



But wouldn't you agree that those who are outside of our small community who purchase these lights look for features and performance that are very similar if not identical to those WE look for: brightness, tint, CRI, runtime, ruggedness, etc. They and we may come from different backgrounds, buy for different reasons, but we both want and are looking for nearly the same things. ZL doesn't distinguish who's a flashaholic and who's an outdoor enthusiast.


----------



## uofaengr

snowlover91 said:


> They also mentioned they're not carrying the SC63 due to safety concerns since it only uses unprotected batteries.



This is interesting. Wonder if other retailers will follow suit?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

seasam said:


> SC600 MK3 On Full High at tailcap on turn on. voltage measured after amp reading on same multimeter.
> 
> Sony VTC5 -------------------4.16V / 4.20a
> Panasonic NCR18650BF -----4.16V / 4.59a
> Samsung 30Q ----------------4.17V / 4.31a
> LG MJ1 ------------------------4.15V / 4.31a
> 
> 
> Samsung 30Q non-PID modes
> Medium 30 lumen: 4.15V / 0.11a
> High 360 Lumen: 4.15V / 0.67a



Interesting, but as those voltages drop, the current will rise. I wonder what it is if you throw in those cells when they're at 3.8v?

All of those cells should be fine for the 600 Mk III's load.

Chris


----------



## scs

uofaengr said:


> This is interesting. Wonder if other retailers will follow suit?


Admirable, though perhaps a bit too conscientious? Unless they actually could assume legal liability for being the retailer of a potentially unsafe product made by someone else.


----------



## markr6

I think many retail stores would be hesitant to sell 18650 lights like the SC600 III/63. I'm talking about places like Gander Mountain or Target where you have a 17 year old walking around first day on the job. He probably won't know jack about the cells. Opposed to a specialty store like Going Gear where they live and breathe this stuff. Then you have REI who sells 18650 Fenix (and others?), who may know a good deal about them...or not. But since they also take 2xCR123, many customers may go that route since they're probably at least somewhat familiar with those.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Tachead said:


> I always hear that comment on here but, I dont think it is true at all. I think that the vast majority of Zebralight users find out about them reading on forums like this or at least research them before buying on forums like this. They are far from a mainstream brand and I personally know no one outside of this site and other flashaholic forums that even knows who they are. That includes dozens of outdoor enthusiasts who regularly use headlamps and flashlights. They are only sold factory direct or in specialty flashlight stores. I think we are their main customer base personally. You have to remember that many, many people dont join forums like this and just use them for research before buying. I myself read on this site for close to 10 years before I joined and never would have known who ZL was without this site and others.



I bought three Zebralights before I even knew this forum existed.


----------



## snowlover91

scs said:


> But wouldn't you agree that those who are outside of our small community who purchase these lights look for features and performance that are very similar if not identical to those WE look for: brightness, tint, CRI, runtime, ruggedness, etc. They and we may come from different backgrounds, buy for different reasons, but we both want and are looking for nearly the same things. ZL doesn't distinguish who's a flashaholic and who's an outdoor enthusiast.



I agree enthusiasts on other forums buy based on similar requirements like tint, cri, etc. At the same time I think the average person who discovers ZL will find out about it either through a friend or by doing google searches. I came to buy my first one after doing Google searches such as "Top 10 EDC Lights" or "best AA light" and many online reviews and websites mentioned the ZL. CPF had little influence on my first purchase, it was the independent blogs and results from Google searches from other sites that convinced me to buy one. Now after getting my first one CPF definitely fed my addiction lol, but I would think CPF comprises a very small portion of their customer base.


----------



## robert.t

scs said:


> Admirable, though perhaps a bit too conscientious? Unless they actually could assume legal liability for being the retailer of a potentially unsafe product made by someone else.



There was a comment earlier in this thread or one of the others, basically saying stocking the lights would be fine except they'd have to sell suitable (unprotected) cells as well, and it would be difficult to restrict who you're selling those unprotected cells to. At least with a protected cell, if someone drops it in a drawer with a bunch of metal tools the worst that is likely to happen is the circuit will trip. Not so with unprotected cells. In general, 18650 cells are not considered a "consumer" item for this reason.


----------



## Tachead

This whole line of discussion started again because of the battery issue(extremely limited compatibility) with these new ZLs. It again proves this was not a smart move on Zebralights part as there would have been no controversy at all if they just left the user to make their own cell choice. There are many reasons why a lot of people dont like this design including:

1. Already have cells and dont want to buy new ones for just one light
2. Availability of 65mm cells is far more limited then some other choices
3. Some people want to use protected cells for the added layer of protection they provide(both for charging and in use of the light)
4. Some people want to use cells that arent available in exactly 65mm length like ones with a button top
5. some people dont trust the long term reliability of the pogo pin design
6. Some people dont like the much lower contact pressure that the pogo pins have(causes more probability of cell movement/rattle)
7. Some people dont like the increased chance of the electronics being damaged from shock due to a lack of the "spring cushion" that a traditional twin spring contact provides
8. Environmental impact(wastefulness of buying extra cells just for one light when many may already have cells)

Now some stores will not stock these lights due to the increased danger/liability due to the design. I am sure because of the limited cell availability too and having to sell unprotected cells. 

I think this design change was a really bad decision on Zebralights part and will definitely limit their sales going forward.


----------



## sdr

Tachead said:


> This whole line of discussion started again because of the battery issue(extremely limited compatibility) with these new ZLs. It again proves this was not a smart move on Zebralights part as there would have been no controversy at all if they just left the user to make their own cell choice. There are many reasons why a lot of people dont like this design including:
> 
> 1. Already have cells and dont want to buy new ones for just one light
> 2. Availability of 65mm cells is far more limited then some other choices
> 3. Some people want to use protected cells for the added layer of protection they provide(both for charging and in use of the light)
> 4. Some people want to use cells that arent available in exactly 65mm length like ones with a button top
> 5. some people dont trust the long term reliability of the pogo pin design
> 6. Some people dont like the much lower contact pressure that the pogo pins have(causes more probability of cell movement/rattle)
> 7. Some people dont like the increased chance of the electronics being damaged from shock due to a lack of the "spring cushion" that a traditional twin spring contact provides
> 8. Environmental impact(wastefulness of buying extra cells just for one light when many may already have cells)
> 
> Now some stores will not stock these lights due to the increased danger/liability due to the design. I am sure because of the limited cell availability too and having to sell unprotected cells.
> 
> I think this design change was a really bad decision on Zebralights part and will definitely limit their sales going forward.



I should hasten to point out that "Some people" are very happy with their new Zebralights and are not experiencing or focusing on any of the negative issues that "Some people" seem to be having problems with. And, I will also hasten to point out that I am not wishing to start or engage in a flame war. My feelings are pretty simple and straightforward. If you don't like Zebralights - Don't buy 'em. There are plenty of other brands out there to pick and choose from. Personally, I like their lights and that's why I continue to buy them. That's all I'm saying. 

Bottomline: "Some people" still like Zebralights! And that's a category that should not be omitted.


----------



## BOHAWG

Lumencrazy said:


> I bought three Zebralights before I even knew this forum existed.




+1


----------



## Tachead

sdr said:


> I should hasten to point out that "Some people" are very happy with their new Zebralights and are not experiencing or focusing on any of the negative issues that "Some people" seem to be having problems with. And, I will also hasten to point out that I am not wishing to start or engage in a flame war. My feelings are pretty simple and straightforward. If you don't like Zebralights - Don't buy 'em. There are plenty of other brands out there to pick and choose from. Personally, I like their lights and that's why I continue to buy them. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> Bottomline: "Some people" still like Zebralights! And that's a category that such not be omitted.



I think your taking me wrong man. I "DO" like Zebralight, a lot actually. I just bought my first about a week ago and have been raving about it in many other threads. I dont however like this new design. And, I think a lot of others dont either. I really like all the new features of these new models except this battery compartment change. I am disappointed because I feel like I am being forced to conform if I want to try these new models. Forced to conform when I dont want to for a number of reasons(many listed above). Yes, I know I dont have to buy them if I dont like them. The problem is I want to buy them. My hope is that because of the many protesting this new design and the Zebralight dealer/s refusing to carry these models, Zebralight will discontinue this new design and go back to the old time tested design or to another one that makes everyone happy again, not just exactly 65mm battery owners, and allows wide battery compatibility again.


----------



## Tachead

Whats even worse is Zebralight is discontinuing the older models like the SC600 MKII and SC62 so it leaves no option for people who cant use or dont want to use the new design. Not everyone wants to change cells or buy more when they already have plenty. Not everyone wants to use unprotected. Also, for many its extremely hard or expensive to get 65mm bare cells(you guys in the US dont seem get this because there is many places that stock them there).


----------



## snowlover91

I wonder if ZL could somehow incorporate a tail cap that would be longer and have a spring built in to accommodate protected batteries or you could use the standard pogo pin tail cap that's shorter this giving consumers the option to use either type of battery?


----------



## fnsooner

Here is what I worry about. Will the tint be great or as good as my SC62? Will it be as durable as the SC62? Will it have some weird problem that all early adopters have to worry about and have to deal with? Will the switch be awesome like the SC62? 

All the negative things that are being discussed don’t bother me at all as long as the above things are covered. I am good with the battery change. It is not like they are making me use some high dollar proprietary battery. They are eight bucks a piece. That is about as cheap as any 18650 I have ever bought.

IMO, the SC62 is the best pocket flashlight ever made. Can ZebraLight capture lightning in a bottle twice? It will be tough. Will the SC63 be another great light? Probably, if the above concerns are met.

The SC63 could be better than the SC62. Smaller, more powerful, lighter, more durable. Oh yeah, it could be.


----------



## scs

fnsooner said:


> Here is what I worry about. Will the tint be great or as good as my SC62? Will it be as durable as the SC62? Will it have some weird problem that all early adopters have to worry about and have to deal with? Will the switch be awesome like the SC62?
> 
> All the negative things that are being discussed don’t bother me at all as long as the above things are covered. I am good with the battery change. It is not like they are making me use some high dollar proprietary battery. They are eight bucks a piece. That is about as cheap as any 18650 I have ever bought.
> 
> IMO, the SC62 is the best pocket flashlight ever made. Can ZebraLight capture lightning in a bottle twice? It will be tough. Will the SC63 be another great light? Probably, if the above concerns are met.
> 
> The SC63 could be better than the SC62. Smaller, more powerful, lighter, more durable. Oh yeah, it could be.



Other than the usual first batch jitters, why the other concerns, e.g., switch and durability? Are there signs ZL has taken a step back?


----------



## Tachead

fnsooner said:


> Here is what I worry about. Will the tint be great or as good as my SC62? Will it be as durable as the SC62? Will it have some weird problem that all early adopters have to worry about and have to deal with? Will the switch be awesome like the SC62?
> 
> All the negative things that are being discussed don’t bother me at all as long as the above things are covered. *I am good with the battery change. It is not like they are making me use some high dollar proprietary battery. They are eight bucks a piece. That is about as cheap as any 18650 I have ever bought.*
> 
> IMO, the SC62 is the best pocket flashlight ever made. Can ZebraLight capture lightning in a bottle twice? It will be tough. Will the SC63 be another great light? Probably, if the above concerns are met.
> 
> The SC63 could be better than the SC62. Smaller, more powerful, lighter, more durable. Oh yeah, it could be.



I am guessing you live in the US? See, here in Canada, there are no retailers that I am aware of that have 65mm cells of any kind. So, my choices are to order from the US(Most retailers wont ship batteries here. Even if they do they might not make it across the border without an additional fee and even if they do it will likely cost me $20+ for shipping) or order from Asia(takes weeks for shipping, still the border fee issue, and still expensive for faster shipping). Protected cells on the other hand are plentiful. I can get Thrunite, Nitecore, Jetbeam, Fenix, Eagletac, and Olight 3400mah(Pany NCR18650B), Eagletac 3500mah(Pany NCR18650GA), or a variety of others very easily with free shipping and for $14US or lower sometimes.


----------



## fnsooner

scs said:


> Other than the usual first batch jitters, why the other concerns, e.g., switch and durability? Are there signs ZL has taken a step back?


With such a complete overhaul, I just think about unintended consequences. Worry is probably too strong of a word. Being curious might be better description. I want a flashlight as good as the SC62w for the rest of my life. Discontinuing it concerns me a little. Kind of a “bird in the hand” kind of thing.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> I am guessing you live in the US? See, here in Canada, there are no retailers that I am aware of that have 65mm cells of any kind. So, my choices are to order from the US(Most retailers wont ship batteries here. Even if they do they might not make it across the border without an additional fee and even if they do it will likely cost me $20+ for shipping) or order from Asia(takes weeks for shipping, still the border fee issue, and still expensive for faster shipping). Protected cells on the other hand are plentiful. I can get Thrunite, Nitecore, Jetbeam, Fenix, Eagletac, and Olight 3400mah(Pany NCR18650B), Eagletac 3500mah(Pany NCR18650GA), or a variety of others very easily with free shipping and for $14US or lower sometimes.



How about Amazon or any online flashlight stores based in Canada? The other option is ordering from China which may take awhile but if you order 4-6 batteries you wouldn't have to worry about not having enough. In fact I've been replacing all my protected batteries with unprotected Panasonic 18650ga, handles 10 amps continuous and works great in all my lights that work with unprotected. Nitecore, however, is the opposite of ZL and requires protected cells for most of their lights, they use physical protection to keep from using flat top cells and button top unprotected cells are too short for most of their lights. The only 2 protected 18650 I use now are for my Nitecore SRT5. 

What if ZL made a longer tail cap that would accommodate protected cells? Then a customer could buy this extra tail cap and use protected cells or for those who like unprotected the stock configuration would work.


----------



## fnsooner

Tachead said:


> I am guessing you live in the US? See, here in Canada, there are no retailers that I am aware of that have 65mm cells of any kind. So, my choices are to order from the US(Most retailers wont ship batteries here. Even if they do they might not make it across the border without an additional fee and even if they do it will likely cost me $20+ for shipping) or order from Asia(takes weeks for shipping, still the border fee issue, and still expensive for faster shipping). Protected cells on the other hand are plentiful. I can get Thrunite, Nitecore, Jetbeam, Fenix, Eagletac, and Olight 3400mah(Pany NCR18650B), Eagletac 3500mah(Pany NCR18650GA), or a variety of others very easily with free shipping and for $14US or lower sometimes.



Yeah, I live in the US. About 250 miles from ZL’s US office. Easy, quick and cheap shipping to and from. I am not familiar with the logistics of getting stuff in Canada. Coincidentally, I bought four of the exact batteries that Zebralight sells about six months ago. I order them from China. Fasttech I think. Couldn’t you just buy one or two cells with the same order from Zebralight if you were to decide to take a chance on one of the new models?


----------



## fnsooner

One other thing I might add. I pre-ordered the SC63w and the SC600w MK III HI the first day they were available. I am a big fan of Zebralight and they have never let me down. If any of my posts seem negative towards them, it is unintentional. The time span since I pre-ordered has been kind of agonizing and has me scrutinizing every move Zebralight has made on their new design. 

I have used a Zebralight every day at work for over five years now and am amazed at how durable they are. I am a big fan and haven’t looked forward to getting a flashlight this much since the SC62 came out.


----------



## snowlover91

Agreed I preordered the SC63w and the MK3 HI version and the wait seems like years lol. I'm curious to see what the throw on the MK3 looks like. I really like the knurling and overall design. The new SC63 design is interesting and I'm really curious to try it out along with the new emitter. Waiting is the hardest part and a few more weeks before we start getting them probably.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Tachead said:


> Whats even worse is Zebralight is discontinuing the older models like the SC600 MKII and SC62 so it leaves no option for people who cant use or dont want to use the new design. Not everyone wants to change cells or buy more when they already have plenty. Not everyone wants to use unprotected. Also, for many its extremely hard or expensive to get 65mm bare cells(you guys in the US dont seem get this because there is many places that stock them there).




Damn, the car manufacturers do the same thing. They introduce a new model and stop making the old one. I don’t get it. If you go back in the forums you will find people complaining about the introduction of the SC62.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Tachead said:


> Whats even worse is Zebralight is discontinuing the older models like the SC600 MKII and SC62 so it leaves no option for people who cant use or dont want to use the new design. Not everyone wants to change cells or buy more when they already have plenty. Not everyone wants to use unprotected. Also, for many its extremely hard or expensive to get 65mm bare cells(you guys in the US dont seem get this because there is many places that stock them there).



Damn, the car manufacturers do the same thing. They introduce a new model and stop making the old one. I don’t get it. What if I now wanted the old one instead?. If you go back in the forums you will find people complaining about the introduction of the SC62. The more we have the less happy we are. The more features that are introduced to new flashlights, higher lumens, more throw, greater spill, multiple modes, strobes, cool white, neutral white, warm white, crenulated bezel , non crenulated bezel, tactical, EDC single cell two cell, rechargeable or non rechargeable: and the list goes on, the less satisfied we are with what we have. We are living examples of “The Paradox Of Choice” and the psychology of consumption. I originaly purchased my Zebralights to go camping. After joining the forum I learned that they are mainly used for sitting on a couch cranking up the lumens (and there better be more this time) and shining round donuts on the living room wall of an unknown color. Then, taking a picture of the result using a smartphone with automatic white balance and color correction and endlessly discussing the results on a forum. Originally, I though flashlights were a tool to see in the dark. I was originally happy with me Sc62 and it served me well on my camping trips. But now I know that I could of had more knurling here, a slightly more protruding button here, a clip more like what is found on a Nitecore EDC and a UI more like the Armyrek Wizard (but specifically the pro model). Zebralight what were you thinking?


----------



## Tachead

Lumencrazy said:


> Damn, the car manufacturers do the same thing. They introduce a new model and stop making the old one. I don’t get it. What if I now wanted the old one instead?. If you go back in the forums you will find people complaining about the introduction of the SC62. The more we have the less happy we are. The more features that are introduced to new flashlights, higher lumens, more throw, greater spill, multiple modes, strobes, cool white, neutral white, warm white, crenulated bezel , non crenulated bezel, tactical, EDC single cell two cell, rechargeable or non rechargeable: and the list goes on, the less satisfied we are with what we have. We are living examples of “The Paradox Of Choice” and the psychology of consumption. I originaly purchased my Zebralights to go camping. After joining the forum I learned that they are mainly used for sitting on a couch cranking up the lumens (and there better be more this time) and shining round donuts on the living room wall of an unknown color. Then, taking a picture of the result using a smartphone with automatic white balance and color correction and endlessly discussing the results on a forum. Originally, I though flashlights were a tool to see in the dark. I was originally happy with me Sc62 and it served me well on my camping trips. But now I know that I could of had more knurling here, a slightly more protruding button here, a clip more like what is found on a Nitecore EDC and a UI more like the Armyrek Wizard (but specifically the pro model). Zebralight what were you thinking?



It is mainly about the cell compatibility for me man and not being wasteful(I just bought new cells and dont need any more). And, I dont own any Zebralight flashlights, I never have. I bought my first ZL, a headlamp(H600Fd MKIII), a couple weeks ago(first headlamp in 5 years) and liked it so, I thought I would try one of their flashlights too until I found out about the limited battery compatibility. I was disappointed so, I went with a Nitecore MH20-NW instead(my first Nitecore also) and am happy with it. These are my first and only 18650 lights. Although I have been into flashlights my whole life and have read on flashlight forums from time to time for close to 15 years, I am far from a junkie and have many other more important(to me) hobbies. I dont buy many lights and I only usually check up on here in the winter when Im bored to see whats new. Sometimes I go years without buying a new light. I also use all my lights a lot, I am far from a couch user. I tent camp, canoe, backpack, long distance hike, rock climb, hunt, fish, and am a tradesman so I use lights a lot for my job as well. I try not to get caught up in the "psychology of consumption" as you put it and dont buy things I dont use or need.

Zebralights change to this design stopped me from trying one of their flashlights and thats too bad because I would have liked to try one. I really like them as a brand and am more then happy with my new headlamp. I just hope that they read some of the posts in this thread and others and realize limiting cell compatibility this much wasnt the greatest decision and has cost them sales and disappointed some of their customers.

Anyway, enough said about this topic. Lets get back to the good things about Zebralights(there are many).


----------



## snowlover91

Tac, you should try the SC62w as it would solve all the problems mentioned! You can order it from their site, it's on backorder so it'll take a little longer to receive but I would give it a try.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Tachead said:


> It is mainly about the cell compatibility for me man and not being wasteful(I just bought new cells and dont need any more). And, I dont own any Zebralight flashlights, I never have. I bought my first ZL, a headlamp(H600Fd MKIII), a couple weeks ago(first headlamp in 5 years) and liked it so, I thought I would try one of their flashlights too until I found out about the limited battery compatibility. I was disappointed so, I went with a Nitecore MH20-NW instead(my first Nitecore also) and am happy with it. These are my first and only 18650 lights. Although I have been into flashlights my whole life and have read on flashlight forums from time to time for close to 15 years, I am far from a junkie and have many other more important(to me) hobbies. I dont buy many lights and I only usually check up on here in the winter when Im bored to see whats new. Sometimes I go years without buying a new light. I also use all my lights a lot, I am far from a couch user. I tent camp, canoe, backpack, long distance hike, rock climb, hunt, fish, and am a tradesman so I use lights a lot for my job as well. I try not to get caught up in the "psychology of consumption" as you put it and dont buy things I dont use or need.
> 
> Zebralights change to this design stopped me from trying one of their flashlights and thats too bad because I would have liked to try one. I really like them as a brand and am more then happy with my new headlamp. I just hope that they read some of the posts in this thread and others and realize limiting cell compatibility this much wasnt the greatest decision and has cost them sales and disappointed some of their customers.
> 
> Anyway, enough said about this topic. Lets get back to the good things about Zebralights(there are many).




It’s all good. I was not aiming at you. What I would find helpful would be actual user reviews. I am really tired of close up beamshots on white walls. They say nothing of a users experience actually having used a light for an extended period of time. My favourite light by far is the S62w. I use it for everything. The second lowest mode at night in a tent and the medium beam around the campsite. Never needed the max output and my battery lasts at least one month. It is small and super reliable, and unless you use KY Jelly for hand cream, it will not slip out of your hand. The max lumen output? I actually don’t have a clue nor do I care. In reality, it is too bright if you want to enjoy a peaceful night away from the city.


----------



## markr6

Lumencrazy said:


> unless you use KY Jelly for hand cream, it will not slip out of your hand.



LOL perfect! :laughing:


----------



## SubLGT

Lumencrazy said:


> Damn, the car manufacturers do the same thing. They introduce a new model and stop making the old one. I don’t get it. What if I now wanted the old one instead?. If you go back in the forums you will find people complaining about the introduction of the SC62. The more we have the less happy we are. The more features that are introduced to new flashlights, higher lumens, more throw, greater spill, multiple modes, strobes, cool white, neutral white, warm white, crenulated bezel , non crenulated bezel, tactical, EDC single cell two cell, rechargeable or non rechargeable: and the list goes on, the less satisfied we are with what we have. We are living examples of “The Paradox Of Choice” and the psychology of consumption. I originaly purchased my Zebralights to go camping. After joining the forum I learned that they are mainly used for sitting on a couch cranking up the lumens (and there better be more this time) and shining round donuts on the living room wall of an unknown color. Then, taking a picture of the result using a smartphone with automatic white balance and color correction and endlessly discussing the results on a forum. Originally, I though flashlights were a tool to see in the dark. I was originally happy with me Sc62 and it served me well on my camping trips. But now I know that I could of had more knurling here, a slightly more protruding button here, a clip more like what is found on a Nitecore EDC and a UI more like the Armyrek Wizard (but specifically the pro model). Zebralight what were you thinking?



The acquisition of "stuff" is a crazy hobby, eh.


----------



## snowlover91

Emailed ZL last night and got a reply this morning, very impressed! They said shipping is on track and for the MK3 HI should begin around the 31st for international orders and then about 10 days later for US orders. Also I asked them about the battery rattle issue and they said the first batch of MK3 lights did have this issue but it has been corrected and future lights should not have this problem.


----------



## waxing twilight

Wow, ZL has a new model SC600 posted on their spreadsheet, SC600Fd MKIII Plus? Interesting... '93-95 CRI, floody beam @5000k from XHP50', and sounds nice!


----------



## waxing twilight

snowlover91 said:


> I wonder if ZL could somehow incorporate a tail cap that would be longer and have a spring built in to accommodate protected batteries or you could use the standard pogo pin tail cap that's shorter this giving consumers the option to use either type of battery?


+1 
Excellent idea, IMO. Would enable those who refuse to use unprotected cells to sacrifice the changes for backwards compatibility, generally speaking. All I own are unprotected cells, but it would seem to be a economical solution.:thumbsup:

Good to hear that the cell rattle issue has been resolved as well


----------



## sdr

waxing twilight said:


> Wow, ZL has a new model SC600 posted on their spreadsheet, SC600Fd MKIII Plus? Interesting... '93-95 CRI, floody beam @5000k from XHP50', and sounds nice!



Good eye on that! It would also become ZL most expensive light at $99. But @5000K it does sound very nice!

Also, it's good to hear that the "battery rattle" issue has been corrected. Mine was from the first batch and has a knock when shaken with the intent to create that knock. It has always been a none issue for me. But I can understand how it might annoy someone else. So, good show Zebralight!


----------



## TA_ls1

I saw it mentioned earlier that Zebralight is discontinuing the SC62? Why stop making such an amazing light? Anyhow, does anyone know how much longer they will be available before Zebralight stops selling them? Thanks.


----------



## markr6

TA_ls1 said:


> I saw it mentioned earlier that Zebralight is discontinuing the SC62? Why stop making such an amazing light? Anyhow, does anyone know how much longer they will be available before Zebralight stops selling them? Thanks.



The strange thing is that it's on backorder, and available to purchase. So I'm guessing they were in the middle of running a new, final batch. Otherwise, you would think it would be available to ship or discontinued and removed from the site.


----------



## Tachead

Lumencrazy said:


> It’s all good. I was not aiming at you. *What I would find helpful would be actual user reviews.* *I am really tired of close up beamshots on white walls. They say nothing of a users experience actually having used a light for an extended period of time.* My favourite light by far is the S62w. I use it for everything. The second lowest mode at night in a tent and the medium beam around the campsite. Never needed the max output and my battery lasts at least one month. It is small and super reliable, and unless you use KY Jelly for hand cream, it will not slip out of your hand. *The max lumen output? I actually don’t have a clue nor do I care.* In reality, it is too bright if you want to enjoy a peaceful night away from the city.



I agree. I honestly dont think a lot of the people on this forum use their lights for an extended period of time much. There seams to be just as many collectors as users and/or they just buy a new model before they even use the old one much.

Yeah, I think this lumen race is getting pretty silly and just another example of your "psychology of consumption". For instance owners of the SC600 MKII are rushing to buy the SC600 MKIII all for a 3-4% increase in perceived brightness(2% for the SC600w) when they just bought the MKII a year or less ago and that increase is barely even perceived by the human eye. $89+ for 3-4%(2% for w) and a minuscule reduction in length and weight, pretty silly if you ask me. But, hey its their money to spend as they see fit.


----------



## markr6

Tachead said:


> I agree. I honestly dont think a lot of the people on this forum use their lights for an extended period of time much. There seams to be just as many collectors as users and/or they just buy a new model before they even use the old one much.
> 
> Yeah, I think this lumen race is getting pretty silly and just another example of your "psychology of consumption". For instance owners of the SC600 MKII are rushing to buy the SC600 MKIII all for a 3-4% increase in perceived brightness(2% for the SC600w) when they just bought the MKII a year or less ago and that increase is barely even perceived by the human eye. $89+ for 3-4%(2% for w) and a minuscule reduction in length and weight, pretty silly if you ask me. But, hey its their money to spend as they see fit.



I think it's like many electronics that get updated rather often. My iPhone 5 was "the perfect phone...I'll never need anything else". Then I got the iPhone 6 and realized it was "the perfect phone...I'll never need anything else". So, it will be interesting to see what the next one brings.

Aesthetics, knowing you have the latest, slight bump in output, slight decrease in size/weight. Sometimes it's the little things that matter. The MKII is perfect IMO...but I _want_ I reason to get the MKIII. And that's part of the fun.


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> I think it's like many electronics that get updated rather often. *My iPhone 5 was "the perfect phone...I'll never need anything else". Then I got the iPhone 6 and realized it was "the perfect phone...I'll never need anything else". So, it will be interesting to see what the next one brings.*
> 
> Aesthetics, knowing you have the latest, slight bump in output, slight decrease in size/weight. Sometimes it's the little things that matter. The MKII is perfect IMO...but I _want_ I reason to get the MKIII. And that's part of the fun.



You should try a Samsung. If you think an Iphone is the perfect phone I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## eraursls1984

Tachead said:


> You should try Samsung. If you think an Iphone is the perfect phone I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


It's all personal preference. I'm really big into phones as well and I absolutely hate Samsung (my last phone was a Note).


----------



## markr6

Tachead said:


> You should try a Samsung. If you think an Iphone is the perfect phone I think you will be pleasantly surprised.



I have used some briefly. They definitely don't have that Apple 13-year-old-toy look to them  But I'm just hooked too deep to change at this point.

Regarding the MKIII, I've been hearing people say the tube diameter has been fixed? If so, I may give it another try


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> I have used some briefly. They definitely don't have that Apple 13-year-old-toy look to them  But I'm just hooked too deep to change at this point.
> 
> Regarding the MKIII, *I've been hearing people say the tube diameter has been fixed? If so, I may give it another try
> *




People keep saying that but, one member put extra heat shrink on his cell to make it tighter and it still rattled so I dont know if the tube diameter was the issue. I am thinking it was more the lower contact pressure and less cushion vs the old duel springs. Maybe they put stiffer pogo pins/tabs in?


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> *I have used some briefly. They definitely don't have that Apple 13-year-old-toy look to them  But I'm just hooked too deep to change at this point.
> *
> Regarding the MKIII, I've been hearing people say the tube diameter has been fixed? If so, I may give it another try




There is just so much more to customize/adjust/play with on an Android phone. Seems perfect for techie/flashlight guys like us. Iphones are like the cell phone for grandma(very easy to use but, too simple) not to mention the lower end hardware(camera, screen, exc.).


----------



## recDNA

Tachead said:


> You should try a Samsung. If you think an Iphone is the perfect phone I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


I don't play their game. I still have the VZW Note 3 and I would argue it is BETTER than the Note 4 or Note 5. Like the newer ZL the newer Notes have some better specs b7t from a users' perspective in real world use the Note 3 is a better phone and I honestly think tye sc62w is better than the sc63w. I won't go into the reasons why the Note 3 is better because it is OT and the reasons the 62 is better have been banished to another thread.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> I don't play their game. I still have the VZW Note 3 and I would argue it is BETTER than the Note 4 or Note 5. Like the newer ZL the newer Notes have some better specs b7t from a users' perspective in real world use the Note 3 is a better phone and I honestly think tye sc62w is better than the sc63w. I won't go into the reasons why the Note 3 is better because it is OT and the reasons the 62 is better have been banished to another thread.




Yep, its a waste of money trying to have the latest and greatest just for status if you ask me. Not to mention highly wasteful and hard on the environment. But, to each their own.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> People keep saying that but, one member put extra heat shrink on his cell to make it tighter and it still rattled so I dont know if the tube diameter was the issue. I am thinking it was more the lower contact pressure and less cushion vs the old duel springs. Maybe they put stiffer pogo pins/tabs in?



I contacted ZL about the issue and the initial batch the tube was too wide and the pogo pins weren't contacting fully like it's supposed to. However subsequent batches they said the tolerance has been corrected and there shouldn't be any further issues. I have the MK3 HI on preorder so when it arrives I'll be able to comment on it!


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> I contacted ZL about the issue and the initial batch the tube was too wide and the pogo pins weren't contacting fully like it's supposed to. However subsequent batches they said the tolerance has been corrected and there shouldn't be any further issues. I have the MK3 HI on preorder so when it arrives I'll be able to comment on it!



That's good to hear. I mentioned it before in the original post, but my video above is with a stock 18650. AFTER I shrunk a clear wrapper on it, it was 90% better. Still, room for improvement. I also mentioned that I'm just getting picky in my old age


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> That's good to hear. I mentioned it before in the original post, but my video above is with a stock 18650. AFTER I shrunk a clear wrapper on it, it was 90% better. Still, room for improvement. I also mentioned that I'm just getting picky in my old age



And you should be picky when it comes to $90+ dollar flashlights. If I wanted imperfection I would go to Walmart and spend $20-30(even Maglights are perfect most of the time). There is nothing wrong with picky:thumbsup:


----------



## markr6

Tachead said:


> And you should be picky when it comes to $90+ dollar flashlights. If I wanted imperfection I would go to Walmart and spend $20-30(even Maglights are perfect most of the time).



You're right!


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> That's good to hear. I mentioned it before in the original post, but my video above is with a stock 18650. AFTER I shrunk a clear wrapper on it, it was 90% better. Still, room for improvement. I also mentioned that I'm just getting picky in my old age


The fit should be similar to my SC5w where I can put the battery in and before screwing the tail cap on it doesn't wiggle around any and after I put the tail cap on its so secure that no matter how hard I shake it no rattle at all. If it's been fixed then the battery rattle issues will be only an initial release hiccup. They're usually quick to fix those issues from my experience. I'm excited about the high CRI options like the MK3 with XHP50 at 93+ CRI and the future SC63 models they plan to do the same thing with.


----------



## ozzie_c_cobblepot

Egads, I _had_ a Samsung, and it was awful! I'm a big believer in being cross-platform (switching every once in awhile), but if I went back to Android I would be forced to get a Nexus phone. Stock Android, no Samsung bloatware.

On topic, responding to the tail cap switcharoo suggestion, I read in the other thread that ZL says the pogo pins are more the driver and output related, not length related, so I don't think it is feasible for them to offer this. The MKii and 62 seem to be the last flashlights to support protected 18650's. (They also said headlamps wouldn't have the pogo pins, b/c they wouldn't be getting the increased output.)


----------



## moozooh

Tachead said:


> Yeah, I think this lumen race is getting pretty silly and just another example of your "psychology of consumption". For instance owners of the SC600 MKII are rushing to buy the SC600 MKIII all for a 3-4% increase in perceived brightness(2% for the SC600w) when they just bought the MKII a year or less ago and that increase is barely even perceived by the human eye. $89+ for 3-4%(2% for w) and a minuscule reduction in length and weight, pretty silly if you ask me. But, hey its their money to spend as they see fit.



I won't be talking for those who are caught up in consumerism and _just have to have the next big thing_, but there are other sides to the whole phenomenon. For instance, in just two years, by moving from SC600 mk I with 3100 mAh cells (2011) to SC600w mk II L2 with 3400 mAh cells (2013) I got roughly a 20–25% increase in runtime (which in my case was enough to _never_ need a spare battery in all of my treks), a ~35% increase in maximum brightness on H1, a noticeable improvement in light quality and user experience: thermal throttling, extra programmable modes, battery indicator, _finally_ a decent strobe, etc. In other words, small quantitative improvements have compounded into a massive qualitative improvement, and it was absolutely worth the money. Obviously, it's not quite as drastic of a jump from there to the mk III and the 3500 mAh cells (2015), which is why I, for one, will be holding off until at least the next generation of lights/cells—but for some other people the more recent improvements might similarly spill over into a quality-of-life thing enough to make the upgrade or buy into ZL for the first time.

The second side, which is also closely connected to the first one, is that ZebraLight is a company with a reputation and a _strongly_ competed-for market share to maintain. Perhaps the best way to illustrate what this entails is this quote from Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass. Basically, ZL has to constantly improve and innovate just to remain in the same position relative to the competition, because the competition is _doing the same_, even if the resulting changes are marginal—and they will lose a lot more if they don't do it at all and only go for actually significant improvements.

And yet another side is that making frequent iterations within the same product line allows ZL to test out both potentially wanted and unwanted functional or aesthetic changes gradually, without them being all too overwhelming, and gather more precise user feedback (it's a lot easier to nitpick in the absence of larger details). Ultimately they can use it to ease the market into accepting certain long-term decisions. For instance, many of us initially weren't all that happy for the move to press-fit front bezels, etc., but so many generations of lights have passed since the initial implementation that we don't even care anymore, and can focus on other things, which makes it easier for us to say "well, this new light is _definitely all-around better_ than its predecessor". Which means one of the two things: either we get used to the battery compatibility change like we have with the bezels, or ZL decides that it isn't worth it and will revert the change in the next generation like they have with 14500s in the SC5x/H5x line.




TA_ls1 said:


> I saw it mentioned earlier that Zebralight is discontinuing the SC62? Why stop making such an amazing light? Anyhow, does anyone know how much longer they will be available before Zebralight stops selling them? Thanks.



They're discontinuing the SC62 because the SC63 is already underway.

You probably don't realize it very strongly, but the whole technology world is moving towards iterative product development, in both software and hardware. In the current state of technological progress, the rate of its acceleration, and the global open market where a person living anywhere can purchase a product made anywhere else, it makes perfect sense. We will be moving towards shorter life cycles for any given model and faster product line refreshments from every company that wants to stay afloat. The side-effect of it is that any given model won't be on the primary market for very long. Thankfully, now that there are multiple ways to contact a company to leave feedback for their product that will be heard, it's up to the customers like yourself to voice their concerns and opinions as to what you liked the most in that certain model—so that the aspects you like have a better chance to be inherited.


----------



## Tachead

moozooh said:


> I won't be talking for those who are caught up in consumerism and _just have to have the next big thing_, but there are other sides to the whole phenomenon. For instance, in just two years, by moving from SC600 mk I with 3100 mAh cells (2011) to SC600w mk II L2 with 3400 mAh cells (2013) I got roughly a 20–25% increase in runtime (which in my case was enough to _never_ need a spare battery in all of my treks), *a ~35% increase in maximum brightness on H1*, a noticeable improvement in light quality and user experience: thermal throttling, extra programmable modes, battery indicator, _finally_ a decent strobe, etc. In other words, small quantitative improvements have compounded into a massive qualitative improvement, and it was absolutely worth the money. Obviously, it's not quite as drastic of a jump from there to the mk III and the 3500 mAh cells (2015), which is why I, for one, will be holding off until at least the next generation of lights/cells—but for some other people the more recent improvements might similarly spill over into a quality-of-life thing enough to make the upgrade or buy into ZL for the first time.
> 
> The second side, which is also closely connected to the first one, is that ZebraLight is a company with a reputation and a _strongly_ competed-for market share to maintain. Perhaps the best way to illustrate what this entails is this quote from Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass. Basically, ZL has to constantly improve and innovate just to remain in the same position relative to the competition, because the competition is _doing the same_, even if the resulting changes are marginal—and they will lose a lot more if they don't do it at all and only go for actually significant improvements.
> 
> And yet another side is that making frequent iterations within the same product line allows ZL to test out both potentially wanted and unwanted functional or aesthetic changes gradually, without them being all too overwhelming, and gather more precise user feedback (it's a lot easier to nitpick in the absence of larger details). Ultimately they can use it to ease the market into accepting certain long-term decisions. For instance, many of us initially weren't all that happy for the move to press-fit front bezels, etc., but so many generations of lights have passed since the initial implementation that we don't even care anymore, and can focus on other things, which makes it easier for us to say "well, this new light is _definitely all-around better_ than its predecessor". Which means one of the two things: either we get used to the battery compatibility change like we have with the bezels, or ZL decides that it isn't worth it and will revert the change in the next generation like they have with 14500s in the SC5x/H5x line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're discontinuing the SC62 because the SC63 is already underway.
> 
> You probably don't realize it very strongly, but the whole technology world is moving towards iterative product development, in both software and hardware. In the current state of technological progress, the rate of its acceleration, and the global open market where a person living anywhere can purchase a product made anywhere else, it makes perfect sense. We will be moving towards shorter life cycles for any given model and faster product line refreshments from every company that wants to stay afloat. The side-effect of it is that any given model won't be on the primary market for very long. Thankfully, now that there are multiple ways to contact a company to leave feedback for their product that will be heard, it's up to the customers like yourself to voice their concerns and opinions as to what you liked the most in that certain model—so that the aspects you like have a better chance to be inherited.



Remember that it takes 4 times the lumens to equal twice as bright so, 278 lumens is actually only a very small increase. But, I get what your saying.


----------



## tops2

It looks like Illumn has the MKIII in stock. But I noticed on their website of warning about an "inductor whine" which only some may notice on default H2 mode. Do anyone here notice this (unless everyone happen to not be able to hear it)?

I'm not sure if they got the pogo pin/battery rattle fixed version or the initial batch.

http://www.illumn.com/flashlights/z...2-xhp35-neutral-white-1126-lm-flashlight.html


----------



## psychbeat

tops2 said:


> It looks like Illumn has the MKIII in stock. But I noticed on their website of warning about an "inductor whine" which only some may notice on default H2 mode. Do anyone here notice this (unless everyone happen to not be able to hear it)?
> 
> I'm not sure if they got the pogo pin/battery rattle fixed version or the initial batch.
> 
> http://www.illumn.com/flashlights/z...2-xhp35-neutral-white-1126-lm-flashlight.html



That could be one potential problem with the new boost drivers - the whine that is.


----------



## tops2

psychbeat said:


> That could be one potential problem with the new boost drivers - the whine that is.



I noticed the guys at Illumn at least looks very young. I'm probably at most 5-10 years older than them. Maybe *hopefully* I've lost enough hearing that I won't hear the whine. Lol.


----------



## moozooh

Where do I sign the petition for implementing lightsaber-pitched whine for H1 mode?


----------



## UTV2TiVo

My MKIII has no whine in H2 mode


----------



## gottawearshades

I seem to recall talk on the forum of these new ZLs running on two primary 123a primaries at reduced performance, in a pinch. But now when I look on their site, I don't see this. 

Am I remembering wrong, or did this prediction just fall by the wayside?


----------



## gottawearshades

gottawearshades said:


> I seem to recall talk on the forum of these new ZLs running on two primary 123a primaries at reduced performance, in a pinch. But now when I look on their site, I don't see this.
> 
> Am I remembering wrong, or did this prediction just fall by the wayside?



Nevermind:

"Operating Voltage Range: 2.7V - 6.0V"


----------



## tops2

UTV2TiVo said:


> My MKIII has no whine in H2 mode



Thanks for the feedback.

I wonder if Illumn's "default" H2 level means H2A level? Well, I'll probably swing by sometime within 2 weeks and ask them..


----------



## scs

tops2 said:


> It looks like Illumn has the MKIII in stock. But I noticed on their website of warning about an "inductor whine" which only some may notice on default H2 mode. Do anyone here notice this (unless everyone happen to not be able to hear it)?
> 
> I'm not sure if they got the pogo pin/battery rattle fixed version or the initial batch.
> 
> http://www.illumn.com/flashlights/z...2-xhp35-neutral-white-1126-lm-flashlight.html



Huh. Thought ZL's potting would have precluded whine...


----------



## recDNA

tops2 said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I wonder if Illumn's "default" H2 level means H2A level? Well, I'll probably swing by sometime within 2 weeks and ask them..


Tbat would be super helpful!


----------



## Oztorchfreak

markr6 said:


> That's good to hear. I mentioned it before in the original post, but my video above is with a stock 18650. AFTER I shrunk a clear wrapper on it, it was 90% better. Still, room for improvement. I also mentioned that I'm just getting picky in my old age





What is a stock 18650 nowadays?

There are so many different specs on batteries now.



CHEERS


----------



## Screwball69N

I preordered MKIII HI AND THE 63 both and just got a text today at lunch time from costumer service saying it's going to be four more weeks till shipping


----------



## fnsooner

Screwball69N said:


> I preordered MKIII HI AND THE 63 both and just got a text today at lunch time from costumer service saying it's going to be four more weeks till shipping


Do you live in the US? When did you pre-order? Like you, I pre-ordered both those lights but I did it very early. 

I did not receive this text. Hope I don't.


----------



## snowlover91

Screwball69N said:


> I preordered MKIII HI AND THE 63 both and just got a text today at lunch time from costumer service saying it's going to be four more weeks till shipping



Im assuming you just recently preordered them? The initial batch of preorders is on schedule according to the email response I received a few days ago with international orders shipping out over this weekend into early this week and then US orders shipping about 10 days later, probably February 9-12th timeframe. If you missed out on that first shipment then the next one will be delayed due to the Chinese New Year starting up this week.


----------



## tops2

recDNA said:


> Tbat would be super helpful!



"I'll swing by within 2 weeks".. Who am I kidding? I went by today during lunch! 

So basically they can hear the whine on all of the H2 levels, but its the worst at the H2A level. I guess I lost enough hearing, but I can't hear it at all (I seems to always hear some mild "ringing" when everything is quiet). They said they can hear it on all the MK3's they have, with some louder than others. They turned on to H2A and basically asked "can you hear it?" and I couldn't...

I'm guessing the SC63 may have have the same whine if it has the same electronics. Don't know if any of the MK3 owners here can hear it or has young kids to ask if they can hear it. If it has a bad whine, I may have to skip this generation if my wife or kid can hear the whine...


Other than that, they don't know if their version is the "initial batch" version or the ones with the battery rattle fixed. I tried shaking one of the demo light and I couldn't get it to rattle. I don't know exactly what battery, but it was in a green wrapper with no brand name label that I see.
The length of the MK3 is basically the same as the SC62.
The weight isn't as heavy as I thought. I guess comparing to my SC5w, my SC5w feels "heavy" for the size and the MK3 feels "light" for the size.

But other than that, I really like the MK3 from my demoing. But I'm waiting for Illumn to get the SC63w then I'll see..


----------



## markr6

Oztorchfreak said:


> What is a stock 18650 nowadays?
> 
> There are so many different specs on batteries now.



Stock is simply that. An 18650 manufactured by Sanyo, Panasonic, LG, Sony, etc. NO protection circuit added. NO 3rd party wrapper. NO button top added.

Since you can't buy from those companies directly, you will shop online from vaping stores, electronics stores, etc.

Some popular examples are:

Panasonic NCR18650B
Panasonic NCR18650GA
LG HE2/HE4/HG2
Samsung INR18650-25R
Samsung INR18650-30Q


----------



## recDNA

tops2 said:


> "I'll swing by within 2 weeks".. Who am I kidding? I went by today during lunch!
> 
> So basically they can hear the whine on all of the H2 levels, but its the worst at the H2A level. I guess I lost enough hearing, but I can't hear it at all (I seems to always hear some mild "ringing" when everything is quiet). They said they can hear it on all the MK3's they have, with some louder than others. They turned on to H2A and basically asked "can you hear it?" and I couldn't...
> 
> I'm guessing the SC63 may have have the same whine if it has the same electronics. Don't know if any of the MK3 owners here can hear it or has young kids to ask if they can hear it. If it has a bad whine, I may have to skip this generation if my wife or kid can hear the whine...
> 
> 
> Other than that, they don't know if their version is the "initial batch" version or the ones with the battery rattle fixed. I tried shaking one of the demo light and I couldn't get it to rattle. I don't know exactly what battery, but it was in a green wrapper with no brand name label that I see.
> The length of the MK3 is basically the same as the SC62.
> The weight isn't as heavy as I thought. I guess comparing to my SC5w, my SC5w feels "heavy" for the size and the MK3 feels "light" for the size.
> 
> But other than that, I really like the MK3 from my demoing. But I'm waiting for Illumn to get the SC63w then I'll see..


Thanks! I use my pocket flashlight in lab so the whine may disturb people. On the other hand I may find M1 high enough. In my sc62w I typically use H2.


----------



## gottawearshades

Oh, don't be so shy. I have a couple of HDS original EDC's that whine. One in particular has it bad, like a dentist drill on max. It just makes my illumination tasks more dramatic.



recDNA said:


> Thanks! I use my pocket flashlight in lab so the whine may disturb people. On the other hand I may find M1 high enough. In my sc62w I typically use H2.


----------



## gottawearshades

Early adopters: has anyone tried running their MkIII on two primary 123As? 

Does it only run in H2? Any observations? 

Thanks!


----------



## recDNA

Heck, I would RATHER run it with primaries and seldom use H1 anyway. Is it big enough to fit 2 primaries with button tops?


----------



## swan

Alright just ordered the SC600 MK111 1300 lumen model locally , had to pay $157 aus dollars and should get it in 2 days.

As soon as i get it i will put it on my light box, chuck in my most powerful Awt 2600 mAh 40 amp cell and see what it has compared to my fenix tk75 on the 1200 lumen level.

If my earlier SC600 750 lumen spring tailcap fits i will try a protected ncr 18650b 3400 mAh cell and i will measure the output with this also.

With all the talk i want to measure it myself and i will report back as soon as it is in my hands.


----------



## snowlover91

swan said:


> Alright just ordered the SC600 MK111 locally , had to pay $157 aus dollars and should get it in 2 days.
> 
> As soon as i get it i will put it on my light box, chuck in my most powerful Awt 2600 mAh 40 amp cell and see what it has compared to my fenix tk75 on the 1200 lumen level.
> 
> If my earlier SC600 750 lumen spring tailcap fits i will try a protected ncr 18650b 3400 mAh cell and i will measure the output with this also.
> 
> With all the talk i want to measure it myself and i will report back as soon as it is in my hands.



Excellent and perhaps when you get all the results in you could start a new thread specifically to report them and discuss the results? Looking forward to seeing the results!


----------



## swan

snowlover91 said:


> Excellent and perhaps when you get all the results in you could start a new thread specifically to report them and discuss the results? Looking forward to seeing the results!



I want to do some real measurements, i really hope the spring tailcap fits and we will see if a ncr18650b protected can run this 1300 lumen beast compared to a high drain cell at the same output without tripping lower in the voltage.


----------



## KeepingItLight

For more excitement, try your tests with a depleted battery. Current draws are highest right before the forced step-down from H1. 

But you know that already!


----------



## snowlover91

swan said:


> I want to do some real measurements, i really hope the spring tailcap fits and we will see if a ncr18650b protected can run this 1300 lumen beast compared to a high drain cell at the same output without tripping lower in the voltage.



Also of interest will be if the 18650b can run it with the same output level, it's possible it may work but at a reduced output. As the voltage dips on the cell that may affect it too. Perhaps try running the battery down to about 3.6-3.7v then let the light cool off, then start it back up in the 1300 lumen turbo to see what happens and compare tailcaps too. Should be interesting!

Edit- Looks like KeepingItLight beat me to it with the same idea!


----------



## Screwball69N

fnsooner said:


> Do you live in the US? When did you pre-order? Like you, I pre-ordered both those lights but I did it very early.
> 
> I did not receive this text. Hope I don't.




I preordered 1-1-16
i live in PA. US


----------



## swan

snowlover91 said:


> Also of interest will be if the 18650b can run it with the same output level, it's possible it may work but at a reduced output. As the voltage dips on the cell that may affect it too. Perhaps try running the battery down to about 3.6-3.7v then let the light cool off, then start it back up in the 1300 lumen turbo to see what happens and compare tailcaps too. Should be interesting!
> 
> Edit- Looks like KeepingItLight beat me to it with the same idea!



If the spring tail cap fits i will test versus the pogopin cap on the AWT high drain and see on the light box which is brighter.

If the spring cap from the sc600 750 lumen model fits i will test turbo at lower voltages say 3.8 3.7 3.6 3.5v with the protected ncr18650b 3400 mAh cells.

Lets see what we get.


----------



## Screwball69N

fnsooner said:


> Do you live in the US? When did you pre-order? Like you, I pre-ordered both those lights but I did it very early.
> 
> I did not receive this text. Hope I don't.



Live in PA. US. I preordered those 1-1-16 first of the year kinda bumbed that they didn't meet there deadline


----------



## Screwball69N

fnsooner said:


> Do you live in the US? When did you pre-order? Like you, I pre-ordered both those lights but I did it very early.
> 
> I did not receive this text. Hope I don't.



Ordered 1-1-16 first of the year live in PA. US


----------



## snowlover91

swan said:


> If the spring tail cap fits i will test versus the pogopin cap on the AWT high drain and see on the light box which is brighter.
> 
> If the spring cap from the sc600 750 lumen model fits i will test turbo at lower voltages say 3.8 3.7 3.6 3.5v with the protected ncr18650b 3400 mAh cells.
> 
> Lets see what we get.



Awesome looking forward to the results!

Screwball, have you tried emailing them on their website or calling to make sure? I emailed them just a few days ago and they said the international orders were already shipping, right on schedule, and the US orders should be shipping around February 10th for those who preordered early.


----------



## gunga

Darn. No shipping notice. I guess I.missed the boat. Ordered Jan 15.


----------



## CL97405

tops2 said:


> It looks like Illumn has the MKIII in stock. But I noticed on their website of warning about an "inductor whine" which only some may notice on default H2 mode. Do anyone here notice this (unless everyone happen to not be able to hear it)?
> 
> I'm not sure if they got the pogo pin/battery rattle fixed version or the initial batch.
> 
> http://www.illumn.com/flashlights/z...2-xhp35-neutral-white-1126-lm-flashlight.html



N00b question: do many quality production flashlights produce such a whine? I was really looking forward to a ZL but don't think I could live with the noise. Nails on a chalkboard, and all that.


----------



## tops2

CL97405 said:


> N00b question: do many quality production flashlights produce such a whine? I was really looking forward to a ZL but don't think I could live with the noise. Nails on a chalkboard, and all that.



I'm no expert..but I don't notice any of my lights having a whine. Don't know if this is really a big problem or anything..just interesting to me that Illumn actually put a note about it on their webpage for the light.


----------



## KeepingItLight

swan said:


> If the spring tail cap fits i will test versus the pogopin cap on the AWT high drain and see on the light box which is brighter.
> 
> If the spring cap from the sc600 750 lumen model fits i will test turbo at lower voltages say 3.8 3.7 3.6 3.5v with the protected ncr18650b 3400 mAh cells.
> 
> Lets see what we get.



For extra fun, see how hot you can get the spring. Use fan cooling, or some such, and run the flashlight on H1 for a long while using a high-draw unprotected battery. See what happens when you reach the step-down from H1. 

I think there are some YouTube videos that show the Noctigon Meteor M43 failing when its springs overheat. In those videos, the springs lose their tension, and the connection breaks. I am not sure if the springs got hot enough to permanently lose the "temper" in the spring metal. If so, I suppose that could damage a spring. Be careful not to overdo it.

The Soshine 3400mAh battery I have in my SC62w is a very tight fit. I doubt there anything I could do that would cause the spring to lose contact. A 65mm battery in the Mk. III, however, might be a different story.


----------



## scs

tops2 said:


> I'm no expert..but I don't notice any of my lights having a whine. Don't know if this is really a big problem or anything..just interesting to me that Illumn actually put a note about it on their webpage for the light.



An important question is has anyone written to ZL about it?


----------



## snowlover91

CL97405 said:


> N00b question: do many quality production flashlights produce such a whine? I was really looking forward to a ZL but don't think I could live with the noise. Nails on a chalkboard, and all that.



Lights using a boost circuit can produce this due to the voltage increase, a higher jump in voltage has a higher chance of this happening. Potting can help reduce the inductor whine but won't fix the cause of the noise. I've read instances of this happening with Nitecore, Fenix, Olight, HDS and a few other lights.

My SC5fd had it and I contacted ZL about the issue. They said I could return it for a new one if I wanted as there was an issue with the initial batch where a few samples had the inductor whine and they would replace it. It didn't effect my light and since my copy had great tint I decided to keep it. Since using it more the noise has now disappeared, it only happened on the H2 default mode and now it is nonexistent. Hope this info helps, it may or may not be the same type of thing going on with the MK3.


----------



## markr6

CL97405 said:


> N00b question: do many quality production flashlights produce such a whine? I was really looking forward to a ZL but don't think I could live with the noise. Nails on a chalkboard, and all that.



I've had a few. Fenix LD22, but also another LD22 without it. My BLF A6 has a VERY slight whine on the second highest mode. That's all I can think of.


----------



## Tachead

KeepingItLight said:


> For extra fun, see how hot you can get the spring. Use fan cooling, or some such, and run the flashlight on H1 for a long while using a high-draw unprotected battery. See what happens when you reach the step-down from H1.
> 
> *I think there are some YouTube videos that show the Noctigon Meteor M43 failing when its springs overheat.* In those videos, the springs lose their tension, and the connection breaks. I am not sure if the springs got hot enough to permanently lose the "temper" in the spring metal. If so, I suppose that could damage a spring. Be careful not to overdo it.
> 
> The Soshine 3400mAh battery I have in my SC62w is a very tight fit. I doubt there anything I could do that would cause the spring to lose contact. A 65mm battery in the Mk. III, however, might be a different story.



That is not going to happen on this man. The MKIII draws 4.8amps at its highest draw, the Meteor probably draws 3-4 times that or more.


----------



## Screwball69N

snowlover91 said:


> Awesome looking forward to the results!
> 
> Screwball, have you tried emailing them on their website or calling to make sure? I emailed them just a few days ago and they said the international orders were already shipping, right on schedule, and the US orders should be shipping around February 10th for those who preordered early.




The order will be shipped in four weeks. Sorry for the waiting. 

Please let us know if you don't want to wait, and cancel for refund. This was the email they sent me


----------



## Tachead

Screwball69N said:


> The order will be shipped in four weeks. Sorry for the waiting.
> 
> Please let us know if you don't want to wait, and cancel for refund. This was the email they sent me



That's some good customer service. Good job Zebralight:thumbsup:


----------



## snowlover91

Screwball69N said:


> The order will be shipped in four weeks. Sorry for the waiting.
> 
> Please let us know if you don't want to wait, and cancel for refund. This was the email they sent me



Wow they must have sold out of the preorders fast for the initial batch then. At least they did let you know and give you an option to either get a refund or wait.


----------



## tops2

scs said:


> An important question is has anyone written to ZL about it?





snowlover91 said:


> Lights using a boost circuit can produce this due to the voltage increase, a higher jump in voltage has a higher chance of this happening. Potting can help reduce the inductor whine but won't fix the cause of the noise. I've read instances of this happening with Nitecore, Fenix, Olight, HDS and a few other lights.
> 
> My SC5fd had it and I contacted ZL about the issue. They said I could return it for a new one if I wanted as there was an issue with the initial batch where a few samples had the inductor whine and they would replace it. It didn't effect my light and since my copy had great tint I decided to keep it. Since using it more the noise has now disappeared, it only happened on the H2 default mode and now it is nonexistent. Hope this info helps, it may or may not be the same type of thing going on with the MK3.




The day I went in to look at the MK3, Illumn mentioned they emailed Zebralight about this and ZL's solution was either better or more potting (forgot exactly which one he said). But as snowlover91 mentioned, it helps reduce but not eliminate the whine.


----------



## gottawearshades

Do two primaries even fit?

Has anyone tried?

Bueller?



gottawearshades said:


> Early adopters: has anyone tried running their MkIII on two primary 123As?
> 
> Does it only run in H2? Any observations?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## sidecross

gottawearshades said:


> Do two primaries even fit?
> 
> Has anyone tried?
> 
> Bueller?


No one should be using CR123a batteries as an alternate of the 18650 battery. On one specification the CR123a battery length is 34.5mm. :wave:


----------



## gottawearshades

So, then their stated "Operating Voltage Range: 2.7V - 6.0V" is just a cruel joke?



sidecross said:


> No one should be using CR123a batteries as an alternate of the 18650 battery. On one specification the CR123a battery length is 34.5mm. :wave:


----------



## sidecross

gottawearshades said:


> So, then their stated "Operating Voltage Range: 2.7V - 6.0V" is just a cruel joke?


No, it is a fact of what the 'opperating voltage' is. 

It is an assumption that two CR123a batteries can be used as an equal alternative. By just reading the specification given by Zebralight, it clearly states a 65mm battery length is required.

If you want a light that can use both CR123a and 18650 batteries you should look for documentation that it does.


----------



## scs

tops2 said:


> The day I went in to look at the MK3, Illumn mentioned they emailed Zebralight about this and ZL's solution was either better or more potting (forgot exactly which one he said). But as snowlover91 mentioned, it helps reduce but not eliminate the whine.



Thanks, tops2.
More pot to mellow out the whine, miiian.


----------



## CL97405

snowlover91 said:


> Lights using a boost circuit can produce this due to the voltage increase, a higher jump in voltage has a higher chance of this happening. Potting can help reduce the inductor whine but won't fix the cause of the noise. I've read instances of this happening with Nitecore, Fenix, Olight, HDS and a few other lights.
> 
> My SC5fd had it and I contacted ZL about the issue. They said I could return it for a new one if I wanted as there was an issue with the initial batch where a few samples had the inductor whine and they would replace it. It didn't effect my light and since my copy had great tint I decided to keep it. Since using it more the noise has now disappeared, it only happened on the H2 default mode and now it is nonexistent. Hope this info helps, it may or may not be the same type of thing going on with the MK3.



Thanks, that's great info and basically talks me off the ledge and into ordering the SC600 MKIII. If it's loud and persistent perhaps they'll replace it with one that is at least quieter. Good reason to order directly from ZL, for me anyway.


----------



## scs

Has anyone had experience holding the Sc62 and sc600 mk 2 for an hour or more at a time? Did their small size make it uncomfortable? If that can be an issue, perhaps this should be a concern for the new, even smaller models.


----------



## tops2

scs said:


> Has anyone had experience holding the Sc62 and sc600 mk 2 for an hour or more at a time? Did their small size make it uncomfortable? If that can be an issue, perhaps this should be a concern for the new, even smaller models.



I don't have those models you mentioned. But for reference I've held my SC5w for my evening 30-60 minutes walks before, while mostly holding my toddler in my arms, even through moments where he keeps squirming.

I do switch between underhand grip, overhead grip and cigar grip depending on my kid's position and how much he's squirming or if he's just running around in the playground.

The size and weight didn't bother me and I don't feel like I'll drop the SC5w (I use a lanyard though). I did try my Olight S1 for these walks once (and without lanyard), and it felt like I'll drop this at any moment when holding onto my toddler.

Personally, the SC5w is about as small as I'd want to use for these walks. It's just large enough to hold comfortable in my hands, but not so large that it'll get in the way. But then, I don't have large hands...

When I held the MK3, it felt to be a good comfortable size without being too big for me...but hard to tell with a 5 minute demo in store vs real usage though.


----------



## sdr

scs said:


> Has anyone had experience holding the Sc62 and sc600 mk 2 for an hour or more at a time? Did their small size make it uncomfortable? If that can be an issue, perhaps this should be a concern for the new, even smaller models.



I have carried an SC600 (Original - Mk II & Mk III) for the last 5 years in one iteration or the other for extended periods of time and I have never experienced any type of problem or discomfort. Going back to the purchase of my very first one I created a "pinkie lanyard" that has not only secured the light to my hand but it also allows for a much more comfortable grip. I have shown these pictures before and they will give you a better idea of what I'm talking about so I'll share them again, here...















As you can see by these pictures the pinkie lanyard allows me to attach the ZebraLight to my hand in such a way that, by cinching the bead, it actually becomes a part of my hand rather than something I am clutching to maintain a grip on. It also allows me to carry, which I often do, other items in the same hand along with the flashlight. This has been my solution which has solved both security and comfort issues. And for anyone who isn't sure, the light in these pics is the SC600 Mk II L2 (see below)...


----------



## scs

Thanks, sdr. I'll look at the photos later tonight at home and may have some questions. Network at work blocks the site that hosts them.
I have the H52Fw and I understand that the SC52 is about the same size. For me, holding the H52Fw in any grip just feels unsecure and uncomfortable, but it sounds like the extra length and girth of its larger brothers might fix that.

I tried to estimate the size of the SC600 series based on its spec'ed dims and the corresponding dims on my 6P.
The 6P head is just 1.5mm or so larger in diameter, its body diameter is almost identical to the ZL, and the length of the SC600 MK2 is approximately a bit shorter than the length of the 6P minus the length of the tailcap and some. Based on this, I though the MKIII total length might be too short for me.

As for the SC63, I imagine I would hold it in a pencil grip.


----------



## swan

Received my SC600 mk3 xhp35 cw- initial observations

Massive output 1621 lumens at start, 1498 at 1min 30 seconds , PID kicks in at 1 min 40 secs- with no fan sitting on lightbox [ high drain cell]
11800 peak candela
Much tighter hotspot than original
Pogopins both ends - protected cell wont fit even using spring tailcap from the mk1
Inductor whine- i can hear it on H4 [ the 160 lumen level ] only but you have to be in a totally quiet room to notice it.
The tint is more neutral than cool
The xhp 35 led is tiny and the die is similar size to xml with a frosted dome

With this much initial output i am not surprised to see the pid at 1min 40 secs take over proceedings because this is tiny.
I tried to fit the earlier sc600 mk1 tailcap with the 65mm awt cell but i felt it was putting to much pressure on the front pogopins so i will come back to this later as i do not want to damage it in the first week.
I am really impressed with this output on a single cell, incredible, i remember thinking how powerful the original was when i first got it but the MK111 more than doubles it and pulls 800 lumens on h2 .


----------



## psychbeat

swan said:


> Received my SC600 mk3 xhp35 cw- initial observations
> 
> on h2 .



Radical. 

How wide is the ID bored- any cell rattle?

Thanks again for the tests!


----------



## scs

Tighter hotspot while the same throw as the MK2 per SB's review, IIRC. Interesting.


----------



## swan

psychbeat said:


> Radical.
> 
> How wide is the ID bored- any cell rattle?
> 
> Thanks again for the tests!



Hey pyschbeat The id of the cell tube 18.81mm and you can evoke a bit of cell rattle with by tapping it sideways in your palm, a single wrap of paper around the cell should sort that out. I did also notice when you turn it off, the led it slowly powers down to off over about 10 seconds.
So far i am loving this light very impressive.


----------



## swan

scs said:


> Tighter hotspot while the same throw as the MK2 per SB's review, IIRC. Interesting.



I measure the original 750 model at 5500 peak candela against the mk111 at 11800 cd and selfbuilt, if i recall, got around 7000cd [mk1] so my figures are probably on the low end.
Yeah the hotspot on the earlier sc600 has less definition where the new one is more defined and compact.


----------



## fnsooner

Thanks swan.

The wait is unbearable.


----------



## swan

fnsooner said:


> Thanks swan.
> 
> The wait is unbearable.



Its definitely worth it - hang in there.


----------



## psychbeat

swan said:


> Hey pyschbeat The id of the cell tube 18.81mm and you can evoke a bit of cell rattle with by tapping it sideways in your palm, a single wrap of paper around the cell should sort that out. I did also notice when you turn it off, the led it slowly powers down to off over about 10 seconds.
> So far i am loving this light very impressive.



My h600w MKII can rattle too with naked cells. 
Doesn't bither me - 18.81 sounds plenty tight. 
Thanks so much for measuring!

Makes sense it might slowly dim on switch-off with the voltage boosting so much. 

Fingers crossed they eventually change their mind and make a headlamp version.


----------



## snowlover91

swan said:


> Received my SC600 mk3 xhp35 cw- initial observations
> 
> Massive output 1621 lumens at start, 1498 at 1min 30 seconds , PID kicks in at 1 min 40 secs- with no fan sitting on lightbox [ high drain cell]
> 11800 peak candela
> Much tighter hotspot than original
> Pogopins both ends - protected cell wont fit even using spring tailcap from the mk1
> Inductor whine- i can hear it on H4 [ the 160 lumen level ] only but you have to be in a totally quiet room to notice it.
> The tint is more neutral than cool
> The xhp 35 led is tiny and the die is similar size to xml with a frosted dome
> 
> With this much initial output i am not surprised to see the pid at 1min 40 secs take over proceedings because this is tiny.
> I tried to fit the earlier sc600 mk1 tailcap with the 65mm awt cell but i felt it was putting to much pressure on the front pogopins so i will come back to this later as i do not want to damage it in the first week.
> I am really impressed with this output on a single cell, incredible, i remember thinking how powerful the original was when i first got it but the MK111 more than doubles it and pulls 800 lumens on h2 .




Is is yours the regular XHP35 or the HI version that you ordered? It sounds like the regular version. I wonder how much the throw will be increased with the HI version? Sounds like an impressive light especially 1600 lumens to start and 1500 lumens after a minute and a half! What cells are you using?


----------



## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> Is is yours the regular XHP35 or the HI version that you ordered? It sounds like the regular version. I wonder how much the throw will be increased with the HI version? Sounds like an impressive light especially 1600 lumens to start and 1500 lumens after a minute and a half! What cells are you using?



There is no MKIII HI in CW. A bit for sure over the regular NW but maybe not as much over the CW because of its higher output. Pretty impressive output for sure. I believe he said AWT 2600mah 40amp. He posted some additional info in the batteries thread as well


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> There is no MKIII HI in CW. A bit for sure over the regular NW but maybe not as much over the CW because of its higher output. Pretty impressive output for sure. I believe he said AWT 2600mah 40amp. He posted some additional info in the batteries thread as well



Oh that's right I forgot about that lol should have looked at ZL's site and gotten my answer. It's interesting that it's getting more throw than previous models perhaps this is due to the increased output? Cree's specs indicate the emitter is essentially the same size as an XM-L2 and I don't think they changed the reflector any.


----------



## Tachead

I just wanted to bring this up here in case anyone hasnt seen it yet. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?413103-NEW-MANKER-U11-QUINLAN

This is a thread about the new Manker Quinlan U11. Half way down the page(post #13&14) show the SC600 MKIII and Manker U11 together. At the bottom(post #24) is a beamshot comparing the SC600 MKIII vs. Nitecore MH20 vs. Manker U11. Talk about throw and brightness, the Manker appears to be a beast(with an older XPL V5). It appears to beat the Sc600 MKIII in throw at least and at half the price to boot. Its not quite as small and I am sure not quite the quality but, interesting none the less. It has awesome regulation, efficiency, and programmability too. They might end up being a brand to watch especially if they introduce some NW and Hi CRI NW options. Selfbuilt gave this lights AA/14500 XPL HI powered brother a favorable review as well. I look forward to future reviews and comparisons of this brand.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...xAA-14500)-Review-BEAMSHOTS-RUNTIMES-and-MORE!


----------



## Flashgas

Tachead said:


> I just wanted to bring this up here in case anyone hasnt seen it yet.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?413103-NEW-MANKER-U11-QUINLAN
> 
> This is a thread about the new Manker Quinlan U11. Half way down the page(post #13&14) show the SC600 MKIII and Manker U11 together. At the bottom(post #24) is a beamshot comparing the SC600 MKIII vs. Nitecore MH20 vs. Manker U11. Talk about throw and brightness, the Manker appears to be a beast(with an older XPL V5). It appears to beat the Sc600 MKIII in throw at least and at half the price to boot. Its not quite as small and I am sure not quite the quality but, interesting none the less. It has awesome regulation, efficiency, and programmability too. They might end up being a brand to watch especially if they introduce some NW and Hi CRI NW options. Selfbuilt gave this lights AA/14500 XPL HI powered brother a favorable review as well. I look forward to future reviews and comparisons of this brand.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...xAA-14500)-Review-BEAMSHOTS-RUNTIMES-and-MORE!


FT has a 20% off coupon going for the next two days. Now I have two lights coming..... ZL Sc63 and the Manker U11 at $28.06 shipped. Nothing will move until at least 2/14 and I expect delays with the backlog but couldn't resist at that price.


----------



## Tachead

Flashgas said:


> FT has a 20% off coupon going for the next two days. Now I have two lights coming..... ZL Sc63 and the Manker U11 at $28.06 shipped. Nothing will move until at least 2/14 and I expect delays with the backlog but couldn't resist at that price.



Yeah I know, pretty crazy performance for the price. This brand might be the brand to make ZL reconsider their pricing and more. They are new to the market and are already almost matching ZL's performance and features at a WAY lower pricepoint. In Selfbuilt's review of the T01 it is just a hair behind the SC5 and also supports 14500. They just need some NW and Hi CRI options now and some time to further refine their offerings. Its good to see some other high performance lights with programmable drivers entering the market.


----------



## swan

Did a 6 minute run with the SC600 mk3 on H1 using an AWT 2600mah 40a cell at 4.18volts using a cooling fan. 

Start 1621 lumens
0:30 1546
1:00 1525
1:30 1519
2:00 1514
2:30 1508
3:00 1503
3:30 1503
4:00 1492
4:30 1444
5:00 1417
5:30 1407
6:00 1407
End


----------



## Tachead

swan said:


> Did a 6 minute run with the SC600 mk3 on H1 using an AWT 2600mah 40a cell at 4.18volts using a cooling fan.
> 
> Start 1621 lumens
> 0:30 1546
> 1:00 1525
> 1:30 1519
> 2:00 1514
> 2:30 1508
> 3:00 1503
> 3:30 1503
> 4:00 1492
> 4:30 1444
> 5:00 1417
> 5:30 1407
> 6:00 1407
> End



Cool thanks:thumbsup: Any chance you could run it again without the fan too? That would show a better example of its real world performance. The ambient temperature would be great too.


----------



## swan

Tachead said:


> Cool thanks:thumbsup: Any chance you could run it again without the fan too? That would show a better example of its real world performance. The ambient temperature would be great too.



If left on the [ambient temp 25c] light box not touching it at 1 minute 40 secs the pid cuts in. But if you held it in your hand it would be different again.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> Yeah I know, pretty crazy performance for the price. This brand might be the brand to make ZL reconsider their pricing and more. They are new to the market and are already almost matching ZL's performance and features at a WAY lower pricepoint. In Selfbuilt's review of the T01 it is just a hair behind the SC5 and also supports 14500. They just need some NW and Hi CRI options now and some time to further refine their offerings. Its good to see some other high performance lights with programmable drivers entering the market.



They do have some very efficient drivers and their designer actually was a part of another light on here for a Kickstarter campaign. The light was called the Firefly I believe and its creator actually met with Mr Manker several times and got him to design the circuit for the Firefly light. Apparently Manker is one of the better driver designers especially for PWM free variants. Having said that I don't like the fact that they seem to intentionally copy the designs of other companies. One of their lights looks like the Nitecore MH20 and another is similar to the Zebralight SC5. They also had a large number of shills who raided CPF when some of these new lights came out which to me is not good practice. If you're product is good word will get out without using some of the methods they've used. I've also seen indications on some other sites of QC issues and trouble getting the light replaced under warranty due to defects. Anyways don't want to get too far off topic here. 

Swan, thank you so much for posting your results they are really helpful and I'm glad to see some lumen measurements, it seems to exceed the specs by a nice margin. Do you have any 18650GA cells to test like ZL recommends? I'm curious what output would be like with that cell. Also could you do tailcap measurements from a fully charged cell and then one that's about 30-40% left and on the highest turbo mode? Thanks!


----------



## Tachead

swan said:


> If left on the [ambient temp 25c] light box not touching it at 1 minute 40 secs the pid cuts in. But if you held it in your hand it would be different again.



It would be interesting to see how much the PID effects the output without the fan too. Yeah, holding it in your hand would give a slight cooling effect too although only a slight effect. Run that test after the no fan one

What can I say, I love this kind of data:twothumbs


----------



## swan

snowlover91 i have some GA,s on order from china and i will do some tailcap measurements and comparisons when they arrive. I did notice at 3.9v resting it will still hit 1600 but over the next week i will do a few more runs at lower voltages. 

Tachead i will do some more tests and post them over the next 48hrs.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Thanks, swan!

Love the data. I'll be watching when you post more.


----------



## tops2

Thanks for all your hard work! Thanks swan!


----------



## Tachead

Thanks swan:thumbsup:


----------



## LightObsession

Flashgas said:


> FT has a 20% off coupon going for the next two days. Now I have two lights coming..... ZL Sc63 and the Manker U11 at $28.06 shipped. Nothing will move until at least 2/14 and I expect delays with the backlog but couldn't resist at that price.



Who is FT?


----------



## kj2

LightObsession said:


> Who is FT?


Fasttech


----------



## swan

Did a run time test on sc600 mk111 cw h1 for 6 minutes holding in my hand,swapping left to right hand and placing on the light box every 30 seconds [no fan ambient temp 22c] 
It got very warm during the test which is understandable with only a 66 gram mass. I have decided not to do a run test without a fan sitting cooking on the lightbox because i feel at 66 grams and 1600 lumens it will get to hot and would not be wise. I do not want to hurt my nice new light and recommend you do not leave this high powered light unattended in turbo.

Awt 2600 mAh 40A cell 4.17v

0:30 1556 lumens
1:00 1551
1:30 1492
2:00 1514
2:30 1508
3:00 1525
3:30 1401
4:00 1444
4:30 1385
5:00 1262
5:30 1262
6:00 1278
End test


----------



## gottawearshades

That is amazing. Thanks for the data.



swan said:


> Did a run time test on sc600 mk111 cw h1 for 6 minutes holding in my hand,swapping left to right hand and placing on the light box every 30 seconds [no fan ambient temp 22c]
> It got very warm during the test which is understandable with only a 66 gram mass. I have decided not to do a run test without a fan sitting cooking on the lightbox because i feel at 66 grams and 1600 lumens it will get to hot and would not be wise. I do not want to hurt my nice new light and recommend you do not leave this high powered light unattended in turbo.
> 
> Awt 2600 mAh 40A cell 4.17v
> 
> 0:30 1556 lumens
> 1:00 1551
> 1:30 1492
> 2:00 1514
> 2:30 1508
> 3:00 1525
> 3:30 1401
> 4:00 1444
> 4:30 1385
> 5:00 1262
> 5:30 1262
> 6:00 1278
> End test


----------



## swan

gottawearshades said:


> That is amazing. Thanks for the data.



It really is incredible the output from this light;

Back to back on the same lightbox/lux meter at 2 minute mark run on high

Thrunite Tn32 cw 1556 lumens

Zebralight sc600 mk3 1514 lumens


----------



## Tachead

swan said:


> Did a run time test on sc600 mk111 cw h1 for 6 minutes holding in my hand,swapping left to right hand and placing on the light box every 30 seconds [no fan ambient temp 22c]
> It got very warm during the test which is understandable with only a 66 gram mass. I have decided not to do a run test without a fan sitting cooking on the lightbox because i feel at 66 grams and 1600 lumens it will get to hot and would not be wise. I do not want to hurt my nice new light and recommend you do not leave this high powered light unattended in turbo.
> 
> Awt 2600 mAh 40A cell 4.17v
> 
> 0:30 1556 lumens
> 1:00 1551
> 1:30 1492
> 2:00 1514
> 2:30 1508
> 3:00 1525
> 3:30 1401
> 4:00 1444
> 4:30 1385
> 5:00 1262
> 5:30 1262
> 6:00 1278
> End test



Thanks for the data:thumbsup:

The light has PID control for a reason, you dont need to worry about it overheating or doing damage to the light. ZL engineered it specifically with this feature so it would protect the light from damage from heat. Whether it is in your hand or not, it should only get so hot no matter the ambient temperature. The PID will reduce the output as needed to keep it at a safe temperature. Many people have ran full battery run tests on turbo/H1(including Selfbuilt a very respected reviewer) with Zebralights with no ill effects.


----------



## Tachead

Here is an example of the PID doing its job without fan or hand contact(courtesy of maukka). This is a 30 minute continuous H1 test with an ambient temperature of 24C. It is also using the H600 which has far less heatsinking/mass(38grams) then the SC600 MKIII. See, nothing to worry about, the PID does its job.







Here is the max temperature encountered in the 30 minute test.






And, here is the fan being turned on and off to show the PID working.


----------



## swan

Tachead said:


> Thanks for the data:thumbsup:
> 
> The light has PID control for a reason, you dont need to worry about it overheating or doing damage to the light. ZL engineered it specifically with this feature so it would protect the light from damage from heat. Whether it is in your hand or not, it should only get so hot no matter the ambient temperature. The PID will reduce the output as needed to keep it at a safe temperature. Many people have ran full battery run tests on turbo/H1(including Selfbuilt a very respected reviewer) with Zebralights with no ill effects.



Yes i agree the PID controller is a necessary safety feature, my old nitecore hc50 has one.

I have to pay for my lights and do not get free samples and in my view, with so many lumens on board i will be using turbo in short bursts of say 2 minutes. I do not want to torture my light to satisfy the requests of others.This is a small pocket light not a tk75.

Please report your findings when yours comes in.


----------



## Tachead

swan said:


> Yes i agree the PID controller is a necessary safety feature, my old nitecore hc50 has one.
> 
> I have to pay for my lights and do not get free samples and in my view, with so many lumens on board i will be using turbo in short bursts of say 2 minutes. I do not want to torture my light to satisfy the requests of others.This is a small pocket light not a tk75.
> Please report your findings when yours comes in.



It is more then just a safety feature. It is designed to safely allow the max amount of light output for the conditions and makes output adjustments in real time to keep the emitter within its specifications for max temperature.

I was not trying to push you to do the test, I was simply letting you know that your fears are unfounded and you should not be worried. Using the H1 mode for any amount of time is not "torture". Zebralight has designed this, and all their PID controlled lights, to run on H1 for any amount of time required without any ill effects. That is the whole point of thermal regulation and it is a much better and is a much safer system then timed step downs, exc. which dont account for ambient temperature like the PID system does. Using your SC600 MKIII in H1 only for short 2 minute bursts is basically employing your own timed step down and defeats the purpose of the thermal regulation you paid for. It is your light to use as you wish but, you are only shorting yourself. You should have just saved some money and got a cheaper light with a timed step down or direct drive if you arent going to make use of one of your new Zebralights best features imo. 

Just so you know, there are many ZL users, on this site and others, that have testified to using their lights on H1 for extended periods(including multiple batteries in a row) for years with no ill effects. Some headlamp users just leave their lights on H1 all the time even.


----------



## swan

Tachead said:


> It is more then just a safety feature. It is designed to safely allow the max amount of light output for the conditions and makes output adjustments in real time to keep the emitter within its specifications for max temperature.
> 
> I was not trying to push you to do the test, I was simply letting you know that your fears are unfounded and you should not be worried. Using the H1 mode for any amount of time is not "torture". Zebralight has designed this, and all their PID controlled lights, to run on H1 for any amount of time required without any ill effects. That is the whole point of thermal regulation and it is a much better and is a much safer system then timed step downs, exc. which dont account for ambient temperature like the PID system does. Using your SC600 MKIII in H1 only for short 2 minute bursts is basically employing your own timed step down and defeats the purpose of the thermal regulation you paid for. It is your light to use as you wish but, you are only shorting yourself. You should have just saved some money and got a cheaper light with a timed step down or direct drive if you arent going to make use of one of your new Zebralights best features imo.
> 
> Just so you know, there are many ZL users, on this site and others, that have testified to using their lights on H1 for extended periods(including multiple batteries in a row) for years with no ill effects. Some headlamp users just leave their lights on H1 all the time even.



I understand proportional integral derivative controllers , i generally do not take advice from a newbie and when are you getting yours?


----------



## Tachead

swan said:


> I understand proportional integral derivative controllers , i generally do not take advice from a newbie and when are you getting yours?



Lol, newbie. I have been into LED flashlights since the Luxeon 3 days man and into incans for over 25 years. I have also been reading on here for many years. I just finally decided to join last year. And, you dont have to get defensive, I was just trying to help. Some people dont understand how thermal regulation works and your wanting to employ your own timed step down when it is not necessary indicated you were one of those people. I just got a H600Fd MKIII a couple of weeks back and am undecided which MKIII flashlight I am going to get if any. If I do it will likely be the SC600Fd MKIII Plus as I prefer Hi CRI lights. That's why I was interested in your tests, to see how they perform and help me decide.


----------



## scout24

P.I.D. or not, I think swan's sage advice about not letting one of the Zebras run unattended on turbo is spot on. I strongly suggest a deep breath, folks.


----------



## swan

Tachead said:


> Lol, newbie. I have been into LED flashlights since the Luxeon 3 days man and into incans for over 25 years. I have also been reading on here for many years. I just finally decided to join last year. And, you dont have to get defensive, I was just trying to help. Some people dont understand how thermal regulation works and your wanting to employ your own timed step down when it is not necessary indicated you were one of those people. I just got a H600Fd MKIII a couple of weeks back and am undecided which MKIII flashlight I am going to get if any. If I do it will likely be the SC600Fd MKIII Plus as I prefer Hi CRI lights. That's why I was interested in your tests, to see how they perform and help me decide.



Tachead- i post information and run tests for all members to see and most people generally appreciate any or all info. I only wish to report what measurements i find under my terms and conditions.

Please do me a favour and do not look at anything i post in the future and you will save us both a headache.


----------



## Tachead

swan said:


> Tachead- i post information and run tests for all members to see and most people generally appreciate any or all info. I only wish to report what measurements i find under my terms and conditions.
> 
> Please do me a favour and do not look at anything i post in the future and you will save us both a headache.



Swan, I already said I wasnt pushing you to run any tests that you dont want to and that I appreciated the ones you did run. Honestly, thanks:thumbsup:

Your being a bit ridiculous here man, I was just trying to help you in case you didnt understand how ZL's thermal regulation worked and did not understand that it can be ran on H1 indefinitely without doing harm to your light. Sorry if I offended you in some way:thinking:


----------



## Tachead

scout24 said:


> P.I.D. or not, I think swan's sage advice about not letting one of the Zebras run unattended on turbo is spot on. I strongly suggest a deep breath, folks.



I agree, no flashlight should ever be left running unattended on any mode, especially a lithium ion powered light. I never suggested otherwise. I am just talking about the use of H1 in general and how restricted use/runtime is not necessary due to the PID already managing temperatures.


----------



## light-wolff

I've been running altogether 6 runtime tests with NCR8650GA on H1, watercooled, i.e. presumably without thermal regulation kicking in. I measured time until the light automatically stepped down to M1:
with original tailcap: 35:17, 31:54, 36:28
with SC62 tailcap: 44:30, 45:16, 44:04


----------



## Oztorchfreak

light-wolff said:


> I've been running altogether 6 runtime tests with NCR8650GA on H1, watercooled, i.e. presumably without thermal regulation kicking in. I measured time until the light automatically stepped down to M1:
> with original tailcap: 35:17, 31:54, 36:28
> with SC62 tailcap: 44:30, 45:16, 44:04




I am at a loss to explain to myself why switching tail caps should change a runtime.

I am using an 18650GA and the pogo pin tail cap fits but it is very close to being ever so slightly open from my observations.


CHEERS


----------



## CM2010

Tachead said:


> I just wanted to bring this up here in case anyone hasnt seen it yet.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?413103-NEW-MANKER-U11-QUINLAN
> 
> This is a thread about the new Manker Quinlan U11. Half way down the page(post #13&14) show the SC600 MKIII and Manker U11 together. At the bottom(post #24) is a beamshot comparing the SC600 MKIII vs. Nitecore MH20 vs. Manker U11. Talk about throw and brightness, the Manker appears to be a beast(with an older XPL V5). It appears to beat the Sc600 MKIII in throw at least and at half the price to boot. Its not quite as small and I am sure not quite the quality but, interesting none the less. It has awesome regulation, efficiency, and programmability too. They might end up being a brand to watch especially if they introduce some NW and Hi CRI NW options. Selfbuilt gave this lights AA/14500 XPL HI powered brother a favorable review as well. I look forward to future reviews and comparisons of this brand.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...xAA-14500)-Review-BEAMSHOTS-RUNTIMES-and-MORE!



I use the Manker most out of the 3 lights and just ordered another.


----------



## Tachead

CM2010 said:


> I use the Manker most out of the 3 lights and just ordered another.



If they had one in neutral white I would order one to try. Can you compare the pros and cons of each or why you like the Manker best? Thanks:thumbsup:


----------



## snowlover91

Oztorchfreak said:


> I am at a loss to explain to myself why switching tail caps should change a runtime.
> 
> I am using an 18650GA and the pogo pin tail cap fits but very close to being ever so slightly open from my observations.
> 
> 
> CHEERS



Someone suggested it could be due to the spring tail cap having a higher resistance and the light pulls less from the battery as a result this giving longer run times. Another suggestion is that it could be more efficient with the spring. Maybe someone with a light box or way to measure output can run these tests and let us know if it's putting out less output when it's switched.


----------



## gunga

Yep. I understand that theory. But I still wonder...


----------



## snowlover91

gunga said:


> Yep. I understand that theory. But I still wonder...



Me too I would love for someone to test this for us.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

A regulated flashlight will pull more from the battery when there is high resistance, thus shorter run time. That is not true for a direct drive light which will provide less current, less lumens, to an LED, or an incan bulb, when high resistance is present. That is why Hot Wire guys try to reduce the resistance in their setups to achieve higher lumen output.

Bill


----------



## oeL

light-wolff said:


> I've been running altogether 6 runtime tests with NCR8650GA on H1, watercooled, i.e. presumably without thermal regulation kicking in. I measured time until the light automatically stepped down to M1:
> with original tailcap: 35:17, 31:54, 36:28
> with SC62 tailcap: 44:30, 45:16, 44:04



light-wolf, do you have a voltmeter that can measure resistance (Ohms)? Would be interesting if there is a difference between the tailcaps.


----------



## sticktodrum

I had been putting off getting the SC62w for pretty much the entire time since its release. Then when I saw they were discontinued, I figured I'd pick one up...had been watching an eBay listing for a while and for some reason never actually bought it...

I was pretty miffed at myself, and realized pretty much all channels had dried up. Fortunately, I think I found the last retailer selling it, and the order was just marked as shipped. So, should be here in a couple of days. Here's hoping. 

Frankly though, each light of mine has "its" battery, so I'll be getting the 63w and the MkIII and each their own battery. 

This is the last time I just put off getting a ZL if I'm even remotely interested.


----------



## scout24

Sticktodrum- I think you'll like the sc62w. It's one of the very few "production" lights I own two of. I bought when they came out, used it for a night, and immediately ordered another one, and tucked it away safely. You mention each of your lights having it's own cell. The 62w runs nicely on a single rcr123/imr123 and a dummy cell, particularly if you are smart about not taxing the cell and just using the lower levels. Good in an emergency...  NOTE- NEVER use this setup with H1!!! I assume no responsibility, use at your own risk.


----------



## Overclocker

swan said:


> Received my SC600 mk3 xhp35 cw- initial observations
> 
> Massive output 1621 lumens at start, 1498 at 1min 30 seconds , PID kicks in at 1 min 40 secs- with no fan sitting on lightbox [ high drain cell]
> 11800 peak candela
> Much tighter hotspot than original
> Pogopins both ends - protected cell wont fit even using spring tailcap from the mk1
> Inductor whine- i can hear it on H4 [ the 160 lumen level ] only but you have to be in a totally quiet room to notice it.
> The tint is more neutral than cool
> The xhp 35 led is tiny and the die is similar size to xml with a frosted dome
> 
> With this much initial output i am not surprised to see the pid at 1min 40 secs take over proceedings because this is tiny.
> I tried to fit the earlier sc600 mk1 tailcap with the 65mm awt cell but i felt it was putting to much pressure on the front pogopins so i will come back to this later as i do not want to damage it in the first week.
> I am really impressed with this output on a single cell, incredible, i remember thinking how powerful the original was when i first got it but the MK111 more than doubles it and pulls 800 lumens on h2 .






just got my "w". i got a simple lumens measuring device and i'm getting about 50% more lumens on the sc600w mk3 than w/ my sc62w

so if sc62w is 930 lumens then the sc600w mk3 should be about 1400 lumens!

zebralight is under-rating


----------



## markr6

I can't keep up with all the Zebralight threads. I just want my SC6w!!!! Expecting that shipment notice soon...


----------



## swan

Overclocker said:


> just got my "w". i got a simple lumens measuring device and i'm getting about 50% more lumens on the sc600w mk3 than w/ my sc62w
> 
> so if sc62w is 930 lumens then the sc600w mk3 should be about 1400 lumens!
> 
> zebralight is under-rating



Thanks Overclocker - well it just is incredible, this is a huge step up from the earlier model.

It seemed we were stalled at around 1000- 1100 lumen in the single 18650 factory stock lights for quite a while .

Zebralight with its new driver and XHP platform is setting new records again, with a single cell, while most lights only achieving 1200 with two 18650,s .

Words can not express how impressed i am with the output from this light and the mk111 has set a new level in performance and imo represents the next evolutionary step in performance over every one else.

Zebralight have created some thing special here and i hope the focus/discussion shifts towards its ground breaking performance and less focus on the tailcap which seems to work exceptionally on both of our samples.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Excuse my ignorance, but are people receiving the MKIII with the xhp35 or the xhp35 HI? I can't tell the difference. Thanks.


----------



## snowlover91

I believe it's for the regular xhp35 version the HI model hasn't shipped to US customers yet, and international should have shipped recently but haven't seen reports of anyone receiving it yet.


----------



## light-wolff

oeL said:


> light-wolf, do you have a voltmeter that can measure resistance (Ohms)? Would be interesting if there is a difference between the tailcaps.


Sure, even milliohms. Hoewever, it's almost impossible to measure total contact resistance of 4 pogo pins in a reliable way with an ohmmeter.
I can only measure indirectly via runtime, and all I can say is that with the original tailcap the light steps down from H1 to M1 earlier than with an SC62 spring tailcap. And that with the SC62 tailcap there is no flickering in H1 with almost depleted battery. And that with original tailcap and tin foil or thin copper plate to increase pogo pin contact pressure the flicker problem also disappears, while the runtime on H1 increases to the same value as with the SC62 tailcap. All with NCR18650GA. Now go figure...


----------



## Tachead

swan said:


> Thanks Overclocker - well it just is incredible, this is a huge step up from the earlier model.
> 
> It seemed we were stalled at around 1000- 1100 lumen in the single 18650 factory stock lights for quite a while .
> 
> Zebralight with its new driver and XHP platform is setting new records again, with a single cell, while most lights only achieving 1200 with two 18650,s .
> 
> Words can not express how impressed i am with the output from this light and the mk111 has set a new level in performance and imo represents the next evolutionary step in performance over every one else.
> 
> Zebralight have created some thing special here and i hope the focus/discussion shifts towards its ground breaking performance and less focus on the tailcap which seems to work exceptionally on both of our samples.



While I agree for the most part and its good to see this step forward, lets keep things in perspective here. Even going from 1000-1100lumens to 2000-2200lumens would only be a 25% boost in perceived brightness right. And, these lights almost immediately start dropping in output due to heat and battery restraints. This is still just a baby step forward unfortunately. I think that battery technology is holding us back the most now. Hopefully soon a new development in battery tech will allow great companies like Zebralight to really make a "ground breaking" leap in performance.


----------



## Tachead

light-wolff said:


> Sure, even milliohms. Hoewever, it's almost impossible to measure total contact resistance of 4 pogo pins in a reliable way with an ohmmeter.
> I can only measure indirectly via runtime, and all I can say is that with the original tailcap the light steps down from H1 to M1 earlier than with an SC62 spring tailcap. And that with the SC62 tailcap there is no flickering in H1 with almost depleted battery. And that with original tailcap and tin foil or thin copper plate to increase pogo pin contact pressure the flicker problem also disappears, while the runtime on H1 increases to the same value as with the SC62 tailcap. All with NCR18650GA. Now go figure...



Thanks again for the additional testing light-wolff. Both your efforts and your taking the time to post them here are appreciated:thumbsup:


----------



## ateupwithgolf

snowlover91 said:


> I believe it's for the regular xhp35 version the HI model hasn't shipped to US customers yet, and international should have shipped recently but haven't seen reports of anyone receiving it yet.



Thanks SL. The HI version is supposed to be more throwy, correct?


----------



## scout24

I personally believe the heat issue is a much bigger factor in these smaller lights. Batteries are providing plenty of juice, and things like P.I.D. are being used to control heat. We keep seeing baby steps forward in emitters, too. Not groundbreaking advances in actual surface brightness...



Tachead said:


> While I agree for the most part and its good to see this step forward, lets keep things in perspective here. Even going from 1000-1100lumens to 2000-2200lumens would only be a 25% boost in perceived brightness right. And, these lights almost immediately start dropping in output due to heat and battery restraints. This is still just a baby step forward unfortunately. I think that battery technology is holding us back the most now. Hopefully soon a new development in battery tech will allow great companies like Zebralight to really make a "ground breaking" leap in performance.


----------



## Tachead

scout24 said:


> I personally believe the heat issue is a much bigger factor in the smaller lights. Batteries are providing plenty of juice, and things like P.I.D. are being used to control heat.



I agree, heat is a large issue as well. Emitter technology has a ways to go as well before a large leap can be made. But, a single 18650 just cant hold these high levels for very long either even when heat is managed. This has been shown through water cooled testing by stopping the thermal management from kicking in. The output starts to drop off almost immediately even with the best regulation in the industry. I cant wait till all these issues have been figured out and we have a SC600 with 15000 lumens perfectly regulated for 3 hours:twothumbs


----------



## Tachead

oops...


----------



## Bad_JuJu

sticktodrum said:


> I had been putting off getting the SC62w for pretty much the entire time since its release. Then when I saw they were discontinued, I figured I'd pick one up...had been watching an eBay listing for a while and for some reason never actually bought it...
> 
> I was pretty miffed at myself, and realized pretty much all channels had dried up. Fortunately, I think I found the last retailer selling it, and the order was just marked as shipped. So, should be here in a couple of days. Here's hoping.
> 
> Frankly though, each light of mine has "its" battery, so I'll be getting the 63w and the MkIII and each their own battery.
> 
> This is the last time I just put off getting a ZL if I'm even remotely interested.



Resistance is futile! I knew you would give in bud!


----------



## snowlover91

ateupwithgolf said:


> Thanks SL. The HI version is supposed to be more throwy, correct?



In theory it should be. With the XP-L Hi I've seen some document increases of 30-50% in throw and sometimes more depending on reflector design. I would expect similar results with the XHP35 HI here in the MK3.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> I agree, heat is a large issue as well. Emitter technology has a ways to go as well before a large leap can be made. But, a single 18650 just cant hold these high levels for very long either even when heat is managed. This has been shown through water cooled testing by stopping the thermal management from kicking in. The output starts to drop off almost immediately even with the best regulation in the industry. I cant wait till all these issues have been figured out and we have a SC600 with 15000 lumens perfectly regulated for 3 hours:twothumbs




Agreed until we see either a big leap in battery capacity and/or emitter efficiency it will be tough to make big leaps forward, just small incremental changes. The jump to 1600-1700 lumens is pretty good though and from swan's tests he was getting 1500+ lumens for a minute and a half before it began dropping down. Would this make it the brightest single 18650 light out there? I'm not aware of any other single 18650 lights putting out more than 1200 lumens or so?


----------



## psychbeat

We're getting 3000-3500 OTF with our Vinh quad P60 modules on a single 18650 

Obviously not for that long but it's fine outside with airflow for a decent amount of time (I use mine continuously on downhill sections night riding)

A tad larger than the zebralight and obviously custom/non-production. 
Here's pic for size comparison. 
H600W in foreground and quad p60 in back. 
Sorry only pic I have ATM.


----------



## snowlover91

Haha well Vinh lights don't count nothing comes close out there to what he can do! That's pretty impressive though to get 3k lumens from one 18650. I bet it gets hot fast! From a production standpoint though I'm not aware of any lights using one 18650 putting out 1500 lumens without modification.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Oveready Wasp head triple redomed XPL ~4500K; 1300 lumens, but not for long. 3000 lumens with two cells that fit in an 18650 sized body; but it is maybe not usually what Oveready customers do (brag about how bright their lights are; At least the first 20 seconds, or so)

And it seems that appreciative ZebraLight customers are more into the ease of use, as WELL as the performance capabilities of their fine lights.


----------



## eraursls1984

KITROBASKIN said:


> Oveready Wasp head triple redomed XPL ~4500K; 1300 lumens, but not for long. 3000 lumens with two cells that fit in an 18650 sized body


I think it's 1800 on a single cell, and 3300 or 3500 on two cells.


----------



## Flashgas

markr6 said:


> I can't keep up with all the Zebralight threads. I just want my SC6w!!!! Expecting that shipment notice soon...


It's become a daily ritual of hope to check for notification on the 63. Excitement followed by despair as the email loads. Has anyone received shipping notice....anywhere or news of delay?


----------



## snowlover91

I believe someone who lives internationally posted that they had received a notice for their SC63 but I haven't seen anything else. International orders supposedly shipped end of January. For the US it should be later this week as long as the Chinese New Year didn't delay things.


----------



## snowlover91

I live in the US and just received a "new order" notification which may indicate they're in the process of preparing the first US preorders for shipment, possibly? I've seen them do this before and ship within a few days for the preorders. It would be my luck they ship this week when I'm out of town lol.


----------



## fnsooner

Well, I also just received an email from Zebralight. It is titled “New Oder #xxxxx” and looks like a regular order confirmation and has this text in it “This email confirms that your order was received at ZebraLight, Inc.. You will receive an additional email once your order is shipped. As always. please contact us if you have any questions.”

It goes on to list my order from 01/01/2016. It doesn’t have any shipping info. ?

This email that I received today appears to be identical to the one I received 01/01.

They already took my money on 01/04. 

I think this means something. Not sure what. 

This email caused me to over cook my eggs.


----------



## snowlover91

I emailed them to find out, I'm hoping it means the orders are preparing for shipment. It seems like this is the same type of email people received back when the MK3 was preordered and then began shipping but I can't remember. What lights did you order fnsooner? I went with the MK3 HI and SC63w.


----------



## fnsooner

snowlover91 said:


> What lights did you order fnsooner? I went with the MK3 HI and SC63w.



I went with the exact same. It will be my first look and possession of the pogo spring tailcap. Can't wait.


----------



## bodhran

I received the same notification when I preordered the SC600w MK3. I had to wait though until the second shipment.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

I also got the email for the SC63w. So these are shipping from China?


----------



## gunga

I ordered January 15. I'm international and have received nothing since I ordered.


----------



## fnsooner

ateupwithgolf said:


> I also got the email for the SC63w. So these are shipping from China?



I think if you live in the US, like you and I, it will ship from Irving, TX. I live in Tulsa. Maybe by the weekend?


----------



## Fireclaw18

I received my shipping notice today.

Says it is shipping via USPS. Hopefully that means it is coming from Texas and not China. (I live in California)

Pre-ordered on January 1.


----------



## snowlover91

Fireclaw18 said:


> I received my shipping notice today.
> 
> Says it is shipping via USPS. Hopefully that means it is coming from Texas and not China. (I live in California)
> 
> Pre-ordered on January 1.



Great news! I preordered the same day and am eagerly awaiting mine. They usually ship all US orders from Texas so you should get it 2-3 days if you paid for priority mail if not 3-5 days for first class is typical. 

Gunga, you may get yours from the second batch which should begin production after the Chinese New Year and then ship out. Supposedly they sold all the preorders for the first batch within a day or so.


----------



## gunga

Oh. A day? Oh wow. Popular!


----------



## snowlover91

gunga said:


> Oh. A day? Oh wow. Popular!



Yeah when I asked them yesterday about the shipping for my order I forgot to include my order number so they told me if it was ordered after the 1st it would ship end of February so that sounds like they sold all their preorders the first day. They may have done a small initial batch to see if any issues come up or to get better user feedback for the next batch or it could be the Chinese New Year cut down on production too.


----------



## gunga

I'm okay if I receive a "fixed" model. Last time mine took 2 months on shipping. I guess I have the chance to cancel based on feedback. Or buy from someone who doesn't bond with the new/old design.


----------



## sidecross

gunga said:


> I ordered January 15. I'm international and have received nothing since I ordered.


I ordered on 1/7/16 but I have not been notified of a shipment; six days is a difference between arrival and patience.


----------



## Lumencrazy

sidecross said:


> I ordered on 1/7/16 but I have not been notified of a shipment; six days is a difference between arrival and patience.


Patience, something one only needs when they don’t have enough


----------



## markr6

Yeah, the confirmation email again like we had with the MKIII. I expect to get a couple more before actually shipping...


----------



## snowlover91

Just got a notification that my SC63w and MK3 HI have shipped!!!


----------



## ateupwithgolf

snowlover91 said:


> Just got a notification that my SC63w and MK3 HI have shipped!!!



Congrats! Where do you live?


----------



## fnsooner

snowlover91 said:


> Just got a notification that my SC63w and MK3 HI have shipped!!!


Me too!


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Order shipped here as well!


----------



## snowlover91

United States, hopefully it arrives before Friday because I'll be out of town!


----------



## sidecross

I just received notice 14 minutes ago that mine has shipped too.


----------



## oeL

light-wolff said:


> ...
> I can only measure indirectly via runtime, and all I can say is that with the original tailcap the light steps down from H1 to M1 earlier than with an SC62 spring tailcap. And that with the SC62 tailcap there is no flickering in H1 with almost depleted battery. And that with original tailcap and tin foil or thin copper plate to increase pogo pin contact pressure the flicker problem also disappears, while the runtime on H1 increases to the same value as with the SC62 tailcap. All with NCR18650GA. Now go figure...


Oh, oh, I think the pogo pins were not their best idea... something around 5 A, that requires good contacts and some pressure. A classic spring is more flexible, of course. Hm... Body too long, cell too short, one of the two out of the usual specs?


----------



## acefspade

Hi, i just purchased the MkIII off ebay. I will try to post pictures when I receive it next week. My currently edc is the Thrunite TN12 2016 model. Will it be okay for me to use the Thrunite batteries in the MKIII? Should I purchase new ones, if so which exact one is the best? THANKS!


----------



## Glock27

w00T! SC63w + 4* NCR18650GA Shipped! My Birthday is Sunday.....Happy Birthday to Me!
Shipping Label Created February 9, 2016 - 2:35 pm

G27


----------



## gunga

Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## fnsooner

acefspade said:


> Hi, i just purchased the MkIII off ebay. I will try to post pictures when I receive it next week. My currently edc is the Thrunite TN12 2016 model. Will it be okay for me to use the Thrunite batteries in the MKIII? Should I purchase new ones, if so which exact one is the best? THANKS!


Not knowing exactly what your Thrunite batteries are, I would assume that they are protected and too long. ZebraLight requires that they be 65mm long which eliminates all protected cells that I am aware of. Zebralight sells the Sanyo NCR18650GA to use in the SC600 MK III. If you can get one or two of those, you should be good.


----------



## sticktodrum

If one places an order with ZL for backordered lights, do they charge your card right away? Or do they charge when you ship?

I usually just buy later from a dealer, so I've never ordered direct.


----------



## Glock27

They charge your card when you order.

G27


----------



## sticktodrum

Thank you.


----------



## snowlover91

sticktodrum said:


> If one places an order with ZL for backordered lights, do they charge your card right away? Or do they charge when you ship?
> 
> I usually just buy later from a dealer, so I've never ordered direct.



As mentioned above they charge you when purchased and then ship as soon as they get the product in. Usually items on back order take anywhere from 1-3 weeks to ship, in my experience. With the Chinese New Year going on right now that may take a little longer since all of China basically shuts down for that. If you live in the US another bonus is you can ship it to their Texas location if you have to do something under warranty and they'll take care of it from there. After the warranty goes out you can also contact them and they'll give you an RMA number and you can ship it with a check for $15 and they'll fix the problem for you and ship it back, so essentially you get a 1 year warranty and then after that for $15 if you have any issues. All mine have been rock solid. Waiting for mine to arrive is going to be really hard!


----------



## snowlover91

Checked my tracking number and it will be here Friday... But I'm going out of town Thursday and won't be back until Sunday, what a bummer! Oh well I'll have to wait until Sunday to check my new lights out or maybe USPS will surprise me and get it here by Thursday. One can only hope.


----------



## Flashgas

Good to hear shipping has started and look forward to the reviews of the 63. My optimistic side says I'll be receiving "the email" in the next few days and my pessimistic side says not until after the second shipment hits the States.


----------



## swan

Did a run time test [MK111 using a fan] on full bore H1 using a AWT 2600mAh 40a cell charged to 4.17v [26c ambient]

Start peak 1631 lumens
2:00 min 1526
6:00 1401
12:00 1422
18:00 1439
24:00 1354
30:00 1397
36:00 1337
36.41 step down to m1 remember this is a 2600mAh cell;
Immediate cell voltage 2.98v after 5 min 3.04V

The mk111 is smaller, lighter has more than twice the lumens and candela of the original sc600 mk1.
I am really impressed with this new 12v boost driver and the incredible output from these new xhp 35,s, i can still get above 1500 lumens at 30 secs from 3.75v resting voltage. Just a point on the intensity i am seeing virtually the same intensity from the xml and xhp35 for example -
Using the same lux meter the cd for the zebra MK1 on H1 is around 5500 cd for my test- for the mk111 on H2 level im getting approx 6000cd and approx 800 lumens so very similar in throw from similar output.

A small thing i have noticed is on low 2c the 0.01 lumen level it will pre flash at about L1 level if turned on from there, before settling.

When i get the ncr 18650GA,s i will test against a unprotected ncr3400b also and see if there is any output difference.
Next i will do a run time on H2 and report back with the same cell as above.


----------



## snowlover91

Excellent results Swan thanks for posting! How soon are those 18650GA batteries coming? I would imagine you could get 45-50 mins from them if the output is similar. It will be interesting to see if output changes any with different cells or if it will produce similar results.


----------



## Fireclaw18

snowlover91 said:


> Checked my tracking number and it will be here Friday... But I'm going out of town Thursday and won't be back until Sunday, what a bummer! Oh well I'll have to wait until Sunday to check my new lights out or maybe USPS will surprise me and get it here by Thursday. One can only hope.



My tracking number says mine should arrive Saturday. This means I should get it on Monday. I paid for regular first class mail shipping. Did not pay extra for priority.


----------



## Overclocker

Tachead said:


> While I agree for the most part and its good to see this step forward, lets keep things in perspective here. Even going from 1000-1100lumens to 2000-2200lumens would only be a 25% boost in perceived brightness right. And, these lights almost immediately start dropping in output due to heat and battery restraints. This is still just a baby step forward unfortunately. I think that battery technology is holding us back the most now. Hopefully soon a new development in battery tech will allow great companies like Zebralight to really make a "ground breaking" leap in performance.




LOL what were you expecting? a photon torpedo?

not a baby step either! it's a whopping 50% improvement in lumens over SC62

and...

sc62 draws ~3.8A
sc600 mk3 draws ~4.8A

50% more lumens for just ~1.0A more battery current. that's a BIG step up in lumens per watt


----------



## Tachead

Overclocker said:


> LOL what were you expecting? a photon torpedo?
> 
> not a baby step either! it's a whopping 50% improvement in lumens over SC62
> 
> and...
> 
> sc62 draws ~3.8A
> sc600 mk3 draws ~4.8A
> 
> 50% more lumens for just ~1.0A more battery current. that's a BIG step up in lumens per watt



I'm just saying that it isnt that significant of an improvement in the grand scheme of things. At least not for a normal person(not a flashlight junkie). By ZL's specs(930 vs 1126 lumens)it is a 18.5% increase in lumens which is about a 4.5% increase in perceived brightness. $95 + shipping/tax is a lot for a 4.5% increase if you ask me. If I just bought a SC62w a year ago I personally would never upgrade for that little of a difference. YMMV


----------



## gunga

Tis true. It's a decent change for a flashaholic in need of a fix (like me). But it's only an incremental improvement. I can certainly agree with that. Note that overclocker is referring to the sc600 iii, not the SC63


----------



## Screwball69N

Just got delivery confirmation I'll have *SC600w Mk III 18650 Flashlight with Neutral White High Intensity XHP35. And**SC63 18650 XHP35 Flashlight Cool White on Sat 13 can't wait*


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> Tis true. It's a decent change for a flashaholic in need of a fix (like me). But it's only an incremental improvement. I can certainly agree with that. Note that overclocker is referring to the sc600 iii, not the SC63



Hey, there is nothing wrong with getting a new light for a fix if you need it. To each their own. I was more speaking from a functional/user(average persons)standpoint. Right, I guess the SC600 is a bit of a different animal then the SC62/63 class as well.


----------



## snowlover91

It would be great if someone could measure the SC63 also to give an idea what type of output it's giving out too.. In theory since they're using the same driver and led it should be similar except the SC63 would step down quicker, however they may have tweaked a few things in the SC63 driver. I find it interesting that Zebralight is actually understating the lumen output, that's quite unusual and not sure why they would go on the low end of things. Maybe the 18650ga has a little lower output? I'm curious to see swans results!


----------



## gunga

Yes. I'm sure results will come. This is definitely a more evolutionary upgrade. Not a must have if you're trying to be practical. I think the sc62 precursor was the sc60 right? That was a huge upgrade. I don't remember an sc61.


----------



## Overclocker

Tachead said:


> I'm just saying that it isnt that significant of an improvement in the grand scheme of things. At least not for a normal person(not a flashlight junkie). By ZL's specs(930 vs 1126 lumens)it is a 18.5% increase in lumens which is about a 4.5% increase in perceived brightness. $95 + shipping/tax is a lot for a 4.5% increase if you ask me. If I just bought a SC62w a year ago I personally would never upgrade for that little of a difference. YMMV




it's a bit suspicious why zebra is underrating the mk3 xhp35 non-HI. it's definitely NOT 1126 lumens, i got a light box to prove it and so does swan

but i think it might be a marketing decision. the HI should defiinitely have lower lumens. perhaps the "HI" version is indeed 1300 lumens for the cool white. non-HI is higher, but they simply listed them as having the same lumens to keep customers from choosing one over the other based on lumens (which people tend to do)

that's just a theory but it kinda makes sense


----------



## snowlover91

Overclocker said:


> it's a bit suspicious why zebra is underrating the mk3 xhp35 non-HI. it's definitely NOT 1126 lumens, i got a light box to prove it and so does swan
> 
> but i think it might be a marketing decision. the HI should defiinitely have lower lumens. perhaps the "HI" version is indeed 1300 lumens for the cool white. non-HI is higher, but they simply listed them as having the same lumens to keep customers from choosing one over the other based on lumens (which people tend to do)
> 
> that's just a theory but it kinda makes sense



How many lumens did you measure from your MK3? Was yours the CW or NW version? Hopefully someone with a light box can test the SC63 also to see if it demonstrates similar output or not. To get 1500+ lumens from a stock single cell 18650 when the previous gen was around 1000-1100 lumens is a nice increase for only 1 amp extra current draw. The new led isn't much more efficient than the previous gen so most of the efficiency gains either came from the new driver design and/or the new tailcap design. Whatever the case may be, kudos to ZL for pushing the boundaries on this light. A smaller light, 5 more CRI, increased output and similar efficiency/runtime.


----------



## swan

Zebralight SC600 MK111 CW run time and output test at H2a 670 lumens
AWT 2600mah cell 40a 4.17 volts [25c amb- fan cooled]

Start peak 832 lumens 
10 mins 829
30 mins 830
1 hour 818
1hr 20min 816

end 1 hour 22 minutes and steps down to m1

Dead flat regulation all the way very impressive.
Snowlover i wont get my cells for 10/14 days, i may buy some locally.


----------



## psychbeat

swan said:


> Zebralight SC600 MK111 CW run time and output test at H2a 670 lumens
> AWT 2600mah cell 40a 4.17 volts [25c amb- fan cooled]
> 
> Start peak 832 lumens
> 10 mins 829
> 30 mins 830
> 1 hour 818
> 1hr 20min 816
> 
> end 1 hour 22 minutes and steps down to m1
> 
> Dead flat regulation all the way very impressive.
> Snowlover i wont get my cells for 10/14 days, i may buy some locally.



Nice!

You can probably find some LG or P/S 3500mah at a local vape shop


----------



## InspectHerGadget

Overclocker said:


> LOL what were you expecting? a photon torpedo?



If the Navy can have lasers that can kill things miles away then maybe a handheld photon torpedo isn't asking too much? I you could mount it on a wooden stock and use it for duck hunting. Why not?


----------



## swan

I just ran a unprotected Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh cell on high for 5 minutes in the mk111.

Glad to report there is no difference in output between this and the awt high drain cell tested previously, still 1550 lumens at 30 seconds and still above 1400 at 5 mins.


----------



## acefspade

fnsooner said:


> Not knowing exactly what your Thrunite batteries are, I would assume that they are protected and too long. ZebraLight requires that they be 65mm long which eliminates all protected cells that I am aware of. Zebralight sells the Sanyo NCR18650GA to use in the SC600 MK III. If you can get one or two of those, you should be good.




Yeah you are correct, the battery isn't unprotected. I will need to buy the ones you recommended. Do you know if the Thrunite U1 charger can charge the unprotected cells? I can't seem to find anything that says it can or cant.... If it doesn't, what charger do you recommend?


----------



## sidecross

swan said:


> I just ran a unprotected Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh cell on high for 5 minutes in the mk111.
> 
> Glad to report there is no difference in output between this and the awt high drain cell tested previously, still 1550 lumens at 30 seconds and still above 1400 at 5 mins.


The Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh under continuous current load is rated at 6.7 amps.


----------



## fnsooner

acefspade said:


> Yeah you are correct, the battery isn't unprotected. I will need to buy the ones you recommended. Do you know if the Thrunite U1 charger can charge the unprotected cells? I can't seem to find anything that says it can or cant.... If it doesn't, what charger do you recommend?


It looks like it would work. I am not familiar with that one. Here is a review by HKJ. LINK

I use a Fenix ARE-C2 and a SkyRC MC3000 and think they work great but I am no charger expert. My research on the subject, the last couple of years, is limited.


----------



## swan

This is a quick pic of new versus old- on the left SC600 mk111 cw on rhs SC600 mk1 cw
As with all pics the white balance in the photos exaggerate but it is close to to what i see - the new 5700k cw is very neutral.


----------



## swan

sidecross said:


> The Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh under continuous current load is rated at 6.7 amps.



Correct but put it up against the AWT 2600 40a high drain cell at 5 amps under load the panasonic looks a little soft, [hjk comparator]
but as always i like to check it my self on my lightbox and i havent done a full test run the ncr18650b so we will see if it can get full power lower down in the voltage.
I reckon the sanyo ncr18650ga should be perfect.


----------



## Screwball69N

Here they are just out of the mail
















[/IMG]


----------



## gunga

Wow! You got em all! The sc63 looks better in these pix.

How about other sides and angles?


----------



## tops2

Omg! 3 lights! Looks nice!


----------



## snowlover91

Nice lights, all 3 wow! Would love to see beamshot comparisons between the 3


----------



## KeepingItLight

sidecross said:


> The Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh under continuous current load is rated at 6.7 amps.




This battery specification from the manufacturer gives *4.875 amps* as the maximum continuous discharge current for the NCR18650B.


----------



## Screwball69N

Screwball69N said:


> Here they are just out of the mail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]



And Guess what they sent me the wrong Light they sent Neutral who wants Neutral I don't even know why its an option I want COOL White I hope I don't have to wait another two months


----------



## Screwball69N

Screwball69N said:


> And Guess what they sent me the wrong Light they sent Neutral who wants Neutral I don't even know why its an option I want COOL White I hope I don't have to wait another two months



Ill post beem shots tonight


----------



## markr6

BUMMER on receiving the wrong one! SC63 right? As HI only comes in neutral.

And that SC63w...looking good!!! It's nice to see an actual photo. The stock was too clean, if that makes sense.

They're really packing the writing on those. Maybe they can get help from Armytek to fit another 500 characters and logos on there


----------



## recDNA

Screwball69N said:


> And Guess what they sent me the wrong Light they sent Neutral who wants Neutral I don't even know why its an option I want COOL White I hope I don't have to wait another two months


I bet it would sell in 10 minutes here at list price plus shipping. Most prefer the neutral option here including me. I just don't need one but plenty do.... And even though I don't need one I would still be tempted if I had the right battery. Did yours come with a battery?


----------



## swan

The SC63 looks good, a little bit different to the pic on the zebra site. They milled the flat under switch and put the logo on there and it seems to taper in towards the middle of the cell tube-nice.


----------



## markr6

swan said:


> The SC63 looks good, a little bit different to the pic on the zebra site. They milled the flat under switch and put the logo on there and it seems to taper in towards the middle of the cell tube-nice.



The flat part looks a bit off, like it's unfinished. I'll have to see in person. But the taper was always there on the website...just not real obvious.


----------



## gunga

I'll buy it but I'm.in Canada (sc63w)?


----------



## KeepingItLight

Screwball69N said:


> And Guess what they sent me the wrong Light they sent Neutral who wants Neutral I don't even know why its an option I want COOL White I hope I don't have to wait another two months




I feel for you. I be bummed, myself. 

Since you have the neutral-white model, perhaps you could do some CRI testing. Compare the NW ZebraLight with a similar cool-white flashlight by aiming both at a light-colored wood finish. Oak furniture or a wood floor works well. I use the wood doors in my house as test targets. Next, try some colorful subjects, like magazine pages, or even the cans and packages in your pantry. While you are are looking at magazine photos, see how well skin tones are represented. Finally, go outside, and light up some natural targets. Grass, dirt, flowers, tree trunks, and leaves are good subjects. 

Pay particular attention to the reds, browns, tans, and cyans (i.e., blue-greens), as well as other colors. Can you see any difference between the two flashlights? Do colors look more accurate with one of them?


----------



## sidecross

KeepingItLight said:


> This battery specification from the manufacturer gives *4.875 amps* as the maximum continuous discharge current for the NCR18650B.



http://orbtronic.blogspot.com/2015/...mah-limit-datasheet-li-ion-18650-battery.html

Is the source of the information I found, and in my use I will use: LG ICR18650D1 - 18650 - 3000mAh 4.35v - flat top and Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500mAh - Flat top.


----------



## KeepingItLight

sidecross said:


> http://orbtronic.blogspot.com/2015/...mah-limit-datasheet-li-ion-18650-battery.html
> 
> Is the source of the information I found, and in my use I will use: LG ICR18650D1 - 18650 - 3000mAh 4.35v - flat top and Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500mAh - Flat top.



I found that one, too. It is based on an assumption that Sanyo/Panasonic has rated the NCR18650B for a maximum continuous discharge current of 2C. No Sanyo document I have seen, however, contains this statement. Panasonic does have a 2C discharge curve in the datasheet Orbtronic links to, but there is nothing in that datasheet that says what the recommended maximum discharge current is. The document I posted does include this information.

These discharge rates are a lot like the the red line on a tachometer. Your vehicle engine is not going to explode the first time you go a little bit over. With batteries, the biggest problem is voltage sag. Even though it may be perfectly safe to discharge a NCR18650B at 2C, the voltage sag at that level is significant. 

It is also revealing that many protected versions of the NCR18650B are set to shut down at around 2C. I think those designs are probably based on the battery specification I posted. Otherwise, the shut-down current would be higher. Most designs do not set the shut-down current to be the same as the maximum continuous discharge current.


----------



## sidecross

KeepingItLight said:


> I found that one, too. It is based on an assumption that Sanyo/Panasonic has rated the NCR18650B for a maximum continuous discharge current of 2C. No Sanyo document I have seen, however, contains this statement. Panasonic does have a 2C discharge curve in the datasheet Orbtronic links to, but there is nothing in that datasheet that says what the recommended maximum discharge current is. The document I posted does include this information.
> 
> These discharge rates are a lot like the the red line on a tachometer. Your vehicle engine is not going to explode the first time you go a little bit over. With batteries, the biggest problem is voltage sag. Even though it may be perfectly safe to discharge a NCR18650B at 2C, the voltage sag at that level is significant.
> 
> It is also revealing that many protected versions of the NCR18650B are set to shut down at around 2C. I think those designs are probably based on the battery specification I posted. Otherwise, the shut-down current would be higher. Most designs do not set the shut-down current to be the same as the maximum continuous discharge current.


I agree with you that finding data is only a part of an answer.

I usually go to HKJ's Battery Comparison Web Page: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php

I then check 1, 5, and 7 amp graphs between two choosen batteries.


----------



## Shiftyfive

Screwball69N said:


> Ill post beem shots tonight



Did the SC63 (or any of the others) ship with a battery included?


----------



## InspectHerGadget

The Panasonic NCR18650B unprotected in the SC600 Mk3 works fine.

How many of you really run it on maximum for long? I don't, it gets far too hot and very quickly. I might use it on Max for up to a minute or two at a time, occasionally. To me it is a nice turbo mode to have but most of the time I double click and run it at lower lumens.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

I have to say I like the look of the sc63w in these shots!

Looking forward to the beamshots.


----------



## tonkem

Cannot wait for mine. Love the look. I am sure I will love it in person. Zebralight always impresses!


----------



## fnsooner

My SC63w and SC600w HI MK III are at the local Post Office.:candle:


----------



## Konstantin

[QUOTE = Screwball69N; 4839515] Вот они только что из почты [/ IMG] [/ QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2qxdBIFl.jpg













Nice!Big ty!Go beamshot.


----------



## swan

Screwball69N said:


> Ill post beem shots tonight



Yes please- it will be interesting to see all the variants of the XHP 35 in action.


----------



## Screwball69N

[IM



Heres some more pics and the flat top Orbtronics 3500mah High Drain I think are a better fit than then the Sanyo and less battery rattle also I'm getting better battery life
and I said I was going to post outside beam shots well there going to be on hold atleast till the wind stops and the below zero weather end its cold out in PA tonight

G]































































[/IMG]Lower beam shots right to left is SC600w III HI - SC600 III - SC63w
and my thoughts on the SC63w are really good so far also they have a spring instead of pogos
AS for the SC600w III HI they deepened the reflector but used the orange peel if they would have used the smooth I defiantly think it would had throw better from what I see its not thowing much more then the reg SC600 III a little disappointed I was expecting a throw light something equal or close to the P12GT


----------



## Konstantin

Dear Screwball69N , where what flashlight on photos?


----------



## Screwball69N

Konstantin said:


> Dear Screwball69N , where what flashlight on photos?




]Lower beam shots right to left is SC600w III HI - SC600 III - SC63w


----------



## Konstantin

Screwball69N Big ty!


----------



## snowlover91

Hmmm that's really interesting that they went with the spring tail cap for the SC63w... I wonder if they decided at the last minute to switch to them? It sounds like the MK3 HI reflector is different from the regular MK3 one, can you confirm that? Which of the three lights do you like best?


----------



## gunga

Spring eh? Too funny. I picked up more flat tops anticipating pogo pins. No matter. I think Tachead will be pleased!


----------



## Screwball69N

gunga said:


> Spring eh? Too funny. I picked up more flat tops anticipating pogo pins. No matter. I think Tachead will be pleased![/QUOTE
> 
> you still need the flat tops SC63 still as pogos inside and the tail cap is the only part with the spring


----------



## Screwball69N

snowlover91 said:


> Hmmm that's really interesting that they went with the spring tail cap for the SC63w... I wonder if they decided at the last minute to switch to them? It sounds like the MK3 HI reflector is different from the regular MK3 one, can you confirm that? Which of the three lights do you like best?



yes that's right the reflector is a little deeper and there's a bigger hole around the LED also they used the orange peel


----------



## snowlover91

Screwball69N said:


> gunga said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spring eh? Too funny. I picked up more flat tops anticipating pogo pins. No matter. I think Tachead will be pleased![/QUOTE
> 
> you still need the flat tops SC63 still as pogos inside and the tail cap is the only part with the spring
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you check and see if the pogo pin tailcap of the MK3 will fit and work on the SC63? I wonder why they went with a spring on the tailcap of the SC63 but pogo pins around the circuit board area.
Click to expand...


----------



## Fireclaw18

snowlover91 said:


> Screwball69N said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you check and see if the pogo pin tailcap of the MK3 will fit and work on the SC63? I wonder why they went with a spring on the tailcap of the SC63 but pogo pins around the circuit board area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is a last minute change to alleviate complaints of battery rattling. Presumably a spring will fit quite a bit tighter and hold the battery more securely.
Click to expand...


----------



## Fireclaw18

Screwball69N said:


> yes that's right the reflector is a little deeper and there's a bigger hole around the LED also they used the orange peel



I'm surprised they used an OP reflector with the XPL HI. The early SC5 had a smooth reflector and a perfect beam pattern.


----------



## recDNA

Too bad. Spring at both ends might allow more battery choices. I have AW button top imr but apparently they cannot be used in 63?


----------



## Overclocker

Fireclaw18 said:


> I'm surprised they used an OP reflector with the XPL HI. The early SC5 had a smooth reflector and a perfect beam pattern.




the quad-die XHP35 probably has donut hole or other beam defects on smooth reflector


----------



## markr6

Loving my SC63w!


----------



## Screwball69N

Fireclaw18 said:


> snowlover91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is a last minute change to alleviate complaints of battery rattling. Presumably a spring will fit quite a bit tighter and hold the battery more securely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes the caps all are inerchangable the spring cap from SC63 fits both SC600 and HI and the light works but the pogo pin caps if put on the SC63 for some reason the light don't work maybe it's the battery size I'll test further
Click to expand...


----------



## snowlover91

Fireclaw18 said:


> snowlover91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is a last minute change to alleviate complaints of battery rattling. Presumably a spring will fit quite a bit tighter and hold the battery more securely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But why change it only for the SC63? Why didn't they do this with the MK3 or MK3 HI version?
Click to expand...


----------



## snowlover91

Screwball69N said:


> Fireclaw18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes the caps all are inerchangable the spring cap from SC63 fits both SC600 and HI and the light works but the pogo pin caps if put on the SC63 for some reason the light don't work maybe it's the battery size I'll test further
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm it must not make contact then if it doesn't work with the pogo pin tail cap. Do protected batteries fit, I'm curious about that since it's not just pogo pins.
Click to expand...


----------



## Konstantin

markr6 You similarly will lay out photos for comparison, if Your flashlight arrived.


----------



## Screwball69N

snowlover91 said:


> Screwball69N said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm it must not make contact then if it doesn't work with the pogo pin tail cap. Do protected batteries fit, I'm curious about that since it's not just pogo pins.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No the protected cells are all still to long
Click to expand...


----------



## acefspade

Would really love to see beam comparisons of the sc63 vs 62 or sc600 mk3 vs sc600 mk2. Having to buy new batteries is putting me on the fence.


----------



## markr6

Konstantin said:


> markr6 You similarly will lay out photos for comparison, if Your flashlight arrived.



I put this photo on the SC63 thread. I think most of the discussion should take place there, but we just have so many ZL threads to watch!


----------



## recDNA

Screwball69N said:


> snowlover91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No the protected cells are all still to long
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised. I thought spring would just compress more. Thanks.
Click to expand...


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> Screwball69N said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised. I thought spring would just compress more. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> If I take the cap off and hold it next to the light to try and see how much the spring compresses, it appears that its is compressing as much as possible - all the way to the back of the cap. The pogo pins relieve about 1mm of that, at best.
Click to expand...


----------



## recDNA

Thanks. Obviously don't try then. I wouldn't want you to hurt the flashlight nor the battery. Bad luck for me but I appreciate you letting me know


----------



## Fireclaw18

markr6 said:


> recDNA said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I take the cap off and hold it next to the light to try and see how much the spring compresses, it appears that its is compressing as much as possible - all the way to the back of the cap. The pogo pins relieve about 1mm of that, at best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't surprise me at all. I think Zebralight made the decision to save 4mm in length from the interior of the battery compartment in part based on the use of pogo pins. This is because the relatively low pressure and flat pogo pins don't need as much spare room as a spring.
> 
> Replacing the pogo pins with a conventional spring works, but it just means that the spring will have to compress almost completely flat in order for the tailcap to screw home. I expect screwing in the tailcap will be quite stiff.
> 
> Also, because the fundamental issue of insufficient length in the battery compartment isn't solved the light still won't be able to use protected or button top cells.
> 
> NOTE: Flashlight modders who don't care if their light looks ugly or if the tailcap screws all the way home can probably fix this simply by soaking the tailcap and screw threads at the back of the body tube in something like Greased Lightning to remove the anodizing. This would get rid of tailcap lockout and allow the battery to make connection even when the tailcap isn't fully snugged tight.
Click to expand...


----------



## markr6

Fireclaw18 said:


> markr6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Replacing the pogo pins with a conventional spring works, but it just means that the spring will have to compress almost completely fat in order for the tailcap to screw home. I expect screwing in the tailcap will be quite stiff.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the cap really "pops" off when unthreading
Click to expand...


----------



## Fireclaw18

Curses!

My SC63w still says it will be delivered Saturday... which means I won't get it till Tuesday. Darn! I hate waiting.

Hey Markr6... what do you think the lumen output is? Brighter than the SC62? I wonder if Zebralight underestimated the output like they apparently did with the SC600 Mk 3, which people on the forum have tested at around 1600 lumens.


----------



## markr6

Fireclaw18 said:


> Curses!
> 
> My SC63w still says it will be delivered Saturday... which means I won't get it till Tuesday. Darn! I hate waiting.
> 
> Hey Markr6... what do you think the lumen output is? Brighter than the SC62? I wonder if Zebralight underestimated the output like they apparently did with the SC600 Mk 3, which people on the forum have tested at around 1600 lumens.



It's just so hard to tell. I like getting the new lights just for something new, not the increased brightness. These small lights are just TOO small to handle the heat. On paper, maybe a couple hundred lumens higher, but in reality, it doesn't matter.

I turned my SC63w on H1 and set it on my desk to see how hot it got after 2 minutes. But after just *15 seconds*,I smelled something really nasty. I looked down and the desk's stain was melting! I scratched at it (after photo, not shown here) and it's all the way down to the bare wood. Oops!


----------



## scs

markr6 said:


> Fireclaw18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the cap really "pops" off when unthreading
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Extra wear on the tailcap threads might be a concern for those who use theirs and change batteries often.
Click to expand...


----------



## markr6

I can't be certain, but I don't feel that it's adding any wear. It's not _that _much different from some other lights I've had. But enough spring to notice.

BTW: 2 minutes on H1 and much cooler than the SC62w I remember. Again, it's been awhile since I had an SC62w, but I just rememeber that getting a lot hotter, a lot faster.

I think the PID is more efficient (or aggressive). Depends on how you look at it. At 3 minutes, I just doubleclicked to H2, then again back up to H1. That was full power, because a few seconds later, I could see visible steps down, almost second by second for about 5 seconds. It sure works well! Staying cool...

For people that like to record the lumens right at turn on with a 4.20v cell hot off the charger, with fans blowing on it, you may not like it. But for a useable light, this is great! My SC62w felt like it was going to burn my hand.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

My SC63w is in hand. I like the styling on the front where they put the logo. The strobe is a slower frequency than my SC62. I agree that the spring is compressed pretty good, I had to tighten the tailcap tight for it to come on though. Yes, it does seem to get hot quick. Pics coming.


----------



## markr6

markr6 said:


>



Man, look at that SC5w! Monster AA light!


----------



## snowlover91

Not sure I'll like the spring in the SC63 especially with it being tighter. I wanted the pogo pin style like the SC5 and MK3 have because it's so easy to screw the tail cap on... Effortless really. My SC62w takes a good amount of compression to screw it on and the SC63 sounds like it's similar or even more.

My package has been delivered! Since I'm out of town though it's terrible timing and won't get to try it out until Sunday night


----------



## markr6

Here's a video of the PID. All I did was warm it up by running for about 10 seconds on H1. Then I turned it off, started the video, then turned it back on.

You can see the step down starts very quick, after about 9 seconds. _Note that my iPhone starts adjusting the exposure, so it starts looking brighter after a few steps._ But it's really continuing to step down. Basically, every time you see a change in brightness (up or down) it's a step down. About every second.


----------



## sidecross

sidecross said:


> I just received notice 14 minutes ago that mine has shipped too.


As of this moment my ZebraLight is still in SOUTHLAKE, TX 76092 according to my Priority Mail Tracking. I have noticed that ZebraLight seems to put only a Priority Shipping Label on the box and then ships it; with the popularity of this product it seems unwise to advertise what is being shipped. :thumbsdow

Another lesson to learn patience.


----------



## markr6

sidecross said:


> As of this moment my ZebraLight is still in SOUTHLAKE, TX 76092 according to my Priority Mail Tracking. I have noticed that ZebraLight seems to put only a Priority Shipping Label on the box and then ships it; with the popularity of this product it seems unwise to advertise what is being shipped. :thumbsdow
> 
> Another lesson to learn patience.



Yeah I don't like that. The few times I ordered 2 lights it was nice since they were in a separate box. And for resale, I had clean packages. With the USPS sticker right on the box, I have no idea what box it is unless I write on it myself. It completely covers the "SC63w" label. Messy. Not a huge deal, but an extra .$19 poly bag would go a long way.


----------



## sidecross

markr6 said:


> Yeah I don't like that. The few times I ordered 2 lights it was nice since they were in a separate box. And for resale, I had clean packages. With the USPS sticker right on the box, I have no idea what box it is unless I write on it myself. It completely covers the "SC63w" label. Messy. Not a huge deal, but an extra .$19 poly bag would go a long way.


I had a phone call with them about this very issue, and they said this the way they ship them. I did try to explain that I was a Regular Postal Carrier in '66-'68 and that theft is an ongoing problem, but they refused my advise and concern. Luckily I will not be needing anymore of their lights. :thumbsdow


----------



## markr6

sorry, delete


----------



## tonkem

They did the same on my SC32 order. I requested on the comments of the 63 order that they do not put the label on the box, since they put it right over the name of the light, so when the label is removed, it removes the light that belongs in the box. The 32 was the only light I have ordered directly from Zebralight, as all others were from other vendors. Of course, the 63 is the 2nd light I ordered from them direct. We will see if they do as I have requested. 



markr6 said:


> Yeah I don't like that. The few times I ordered 2 lights it was nice since they were in a separate box. And for resale, I had clean packages. With the USPS sticker right on the box, I have no idea what box it is unless I write on it myself. It completely covers the "SC63w" label. Messy. Not a huge deal, but an extra .$19 poly bag would go a long way.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> It's just so hard to tell. I like getting the new lights just for something new, not the increased brightness. These small lights are just TOO small to handle the heat. On paper, maybe a couple hundred lumens higher, but in reality, it doesn't matter.
> 
> I turned my SC63w on H1 and set it on my desk to see how hot it got after 2 minutes. But after just *15 seconds*,I smelled something really nasty. I looked down and the desk's stain was melting! I scratched at it (after photo, not shown here) and it's all the way down to the bare wood. Oops!


So much for pid.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> So much for pid.



LOL! All it takes is a few seconds. PID doesn't start until 30 seconds at the 70° room I'm in now. And we're talking about a 0.5mm distance from wood to glass here.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> I can't be certain, but I don't feel that it's adding any wear. It's not _that _much different from some other lights I've had. But enough spring to notice.
> 
> BTW: 2 minutes on H1 and much cooler than the SC62w I remember. Again, it's been awhile since I had an SC62w, but I just rememeber that getting a lot hotter, a lot faster.
> 
> I think the PID is more efficient (or aggressive). Depends on how you look at it. At 3 minutes, I just doubleclicked to H2, then again back up to H1. That was full power, because a few seconds later, I could see visible steps down, almost second by second for about 5 seconds. It sure works well! Staying cool...
> 
> For people that like to record the lumens right at turn on with a 4.20v cell hot off the charger, with fans blowing on it, you may not like it. But for a useable light, this is great! My SC62w felt like it was going to burn my hand.


Wait... You just said it melted desk stain after 15 seconds didn't you? Sc62w doesn't do that. If it is that hot in 15 sec PID should cut in sooner imo. I have set my 62w down on h1 for a few minutes at a time while I worked on stuff around the house. It didn't affect tile nor hardwood floor. Still, it was hot when I picked it up. I have always wished PID were more aggressive. Now I only use H2 unless I need to light a really big area.


----------



## eraursls1984

recDNA said:


> Wait... You just said it melted desk stain after 15 seconds didn't you? Sc62w doesn't do that. If it is that hot in 15 sec PID should cut in sooner imo. I have set my 62w down on h1 for a few minutes at a time while I worked on stuff around the house. It didn't affect tile nor hardwood floor. Still, it was hot when I picked it up. I have always wished PID were more aggressive. Now I only use H2 unless I need to light a really big area.


I'm pretty sure he put it face down, not up so the light bounces off of tthe ceiling.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Wait... You just said it melted desk stain after 15 seconds didn't you? Sc62w doesn't do that. If it is that hot in 15 sec PID should cut in sooner imo. I have set my 62w down on h1 for a few minutes at a time while I worked on stuff around the house. It didn't affect tile nor hardwood floor. Still, it was hot when I picked it up. I have always wished PID were more aggressive. Now I only use H2 unless I need to light a really big area.



My SC62w will make dark paper start smoking if the front of the light is shined on the paper at a close distance, less than an inch. If the front of the light is placed face down all the heat energy is going directly into the wood and it doesn't surprise me this would happen since my 62w is hot enough in the first 30 seconds to make paper smoke. Not a concern imo because the actual body of the light itself isn't that hot, it's the light coming from the LED at short ranges that causes this.


----------



## sidecross

snowlover91 said:


> My SC62w will make dark paper start smoking if the front of the light is shined on the paper at a close distance, less than an inch. If the front of the light is placed face down all the heat energy is going directly into the wood and it doesn't surprise me this would happen since my 62w is hot enough in the first 30 seconds to make paper smoke. Not a concern imo because the actual body of the light itself isn't that hot, it's the light coming from the LED at short ranges that causes this.


I saw a YouTube video of a ThruNite TN36 UT being used for cooking.


----------



## uofaengr

markr6 said:


> Yeah I don't like that. The few times I ordered 2 lights it was nice since they were in a separate box. And for resale, I had clean packages. With the USPS sticker right on the box, I have no idea what box it is unless I write on it myself. It completely covers the "SC63w" label. Messy. Not a huge deal, but an extra .$19 poly bag would go a long way.


I was thinking the SC52w I ordered from them last April was mailed in a separate box, but then I remembered I ordered two batteries along with the light so maybe that was the reason.


----------



## Tachead

My H600Fd MKIII came direct from ZL in a bubble package. But, I am in Canada so it shipped from China.


----------



## Tachead

I wish ZL allowed programming of the PID. That way you could set it to come on earlier(at a lower temp) if you wanted.


----------



## Screwball69N

Tachead said:


> I wish ZL allowed programming of the PID. That way you could set it to come on earlier(at a lower temp) if you wanted.



never mind I thought I seen SC600FdIII


----------



## Tachead

Screwball69N said:


> are you a tester because the light isn't out yet




Huh? Sorry I dont get what you mean? I was just saying that I wished ZL would allow us to adjust the PIDs activation temperature. What light?


----------



## Screwball69N

Tachead said:


> Huh? Sorry I dont get what you mean? I was just saying that I wished ZL would allow us to adjust the PIDs activation temperature. What light?



I thought that you were a tester because I thought you where talking about the new Zebralight SC600Fd III and it hasent been released yet but I reread what you said and you were talking about there older light sorry


----------



## Tachead

Screwball69N said:


> I thought that you were a tester because I thought you where talking about the new Zebralight SC600Fd III and it hasent been released yet but I reread what you said and you were talking about there older light sorry



O, my earlier post not the one you quoted. No problem:thumbsup: Yeah, the H600Fd MKIII(the headlamp) not the SC600Fd MKIII. Its their newest MKIII headlamp.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> Wait... You just said it melted desk stain after 15 seconds didn't you? Sc62w doesn't do that. If it is that hot in 15 sec PID should cut in sooner imo. I have set my 62w down on h1 for a few minutes at a time while I worked on stuff around the house. It didn't affect tile nor hardwood floor. Still, it was hot when I picked it up. I have always wished PID were more aggressive. Now I only use H2 unless I need to light a really big area.





eraursls1984 said:


> I'm pretty sure he put it face down, not up so the light bounces off of tthe ceiling.



Yeah face down. Like I said, we're talking about a 0.5mm gap here. Practically glass TOUCHING polyurethane. I didn't post that as an "OH MY GOD" reaction, just something funny and stupid I did. Many lights will do that. Nothing special about the SC63w. in fact, like I already said, this PID is farily aggressive. I even posted a video. I think people are ignoring me :mecry:


----------



## recDNA

Tachead said:


> I wish ZL allowed programming of the PID. That way you could set it to come on earlier(at a lower temp) if you wanted.


100X YES!


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> Yeah face down. Like I said, we're talking about a 0.5mm gap here. Practically glass TOUCHING polyurethane. I didn't post that as an "OH MY GOD" reaction, just something funny and stupid I did. Many lights will do that. Nothing special about the SC63w. in fact, like I already said, this PID is farily aggressive. I even posted a video. I think people are ignoring me :mecry:


I get it. I thought you laid it on its side. I often lay 62w on its side. Doesn't get hot enough to burn surfaces I had it on. Maybe they were just heat resistant


----------



## 18650

Tachead said:


> I wish ZL allowed programming of the PID. That way you could set it to come on earlier(at a lower temp) if you wanted.


 What would the point of that be? Run it at H2 or M1.


----------



## recDNA

18650 said:


> What would the point of that be? Run it at H2 or M1.


Some would want no heat protection (crazy people). I would like it to come on sooner. I don't ever want it too hot to hold.


----------



## uofaengr

I don't think ZL would want to take on that liability of letting users disable heat protection. Also agree with why not just use H2. If you take the temp setpoint down so low, you'd basically have brightness imperceivably higher than H2 so not seeing the advantage of the increased complexity.


----------



## acefspade

No beamshots of sc600 mkii l2 cw vs sc600 mkiii cw? Or sc63 cw vs sc62 cw? Hope somebody can, so I can hop over the fence.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Tachead said:


> I wish ZL allowed programming of the PID. That way you could set it to come on earlier(at a lower temp) if you wanted.



Interestingly, that's exactly what the Bistro firmware in the *BLF Kronos X6 and X5* flashlights allows you to do. You can also disable thermal regulation entirely, if that is your wont.


----------



## sdr

Well, I'm anxious to hear from someone with the Mk III HI version about just how much further it's throwing compared to the regular Mk III. I mean, wasn't this High Intensity light supposed to throw a focused beam considerably farther than the regular XHP35? Can anyone who owns both lights validate that claim?


----------



## GunnarGG

Will there be an SC63 Hi also?
The SC62d have a smaller LED than the ordinary SC62 and the SC62w and therefore it also has a little tighter hotspot.
I would like a light with a similar beam as the SC62d.
Is that possible to get with one of the SC63 models?
If I step up in size and get the SC600 MkIII with larger head, is that one like the SC62d in beam profile?
The SC600 MkIII Hi should have even tighter beam but that might be to much for me. ?


----------



## fnsooner

sdr said:


> Well, I'm anxious to hear from someone with the Mk III HI version about just how much further it's throwing compared to the regular Mk III. I mean, wasn't this High Intensity light supposed to throw a focused beam considerably farther than the regular XHP35? Can anyone who owns both lights validate that claim?


I only have the SC63w and the SC600w HI MK III and can only give impressions of what I see. I walked around last night comparing the two. I am not set up for outdoor beam shots. 

I would describe the SC63w as having a floody wall of light that reaches out to about 50 yards. The HI model has a large more defined hotspot that goes out to about 90 yards before it comes to a fairly abrupt drop off. They both seemed to put out roughly the same amount of light but just use it differently.

I really wasn’t sure what I was expecting out of the HI model. Maybe a pencil type beam going out to 200 yards and was a little disappointed at first coming to grips to how it actually performed. After adjusting my perception of what the beam profile of the HI actually is and using it in that scope, it is quite impressive. Walking around shining it into trees, within its range, is kind of shocking. Especially considering it is a four inch pocket light.

I have been caught at dusk golfing and have had to finish a couple of rounds using my SC62w. It worked great but this new HI model would have worked a lot better. 

I would guess that the SC600w MK III’s beam profile would come somewhere in between the two lights I just discussed.




GunnarGG said:


> Will there be an SC63 Hi also?
> The SC62d have a smaller LED than the ordinary SC62 and the SC62w and therefore it also has a little tighter hotspot.
> I would like a light with a similar beam as the SC62d.
> Is that possible to get with one of the SC63 models?
> If I step up in size and get the SC600 MkIII with larger head, is that one like the SC62d in beam profile?
> The SC600 MkIII Hi should have even tighter beam but that might be to much for me. ?



I asked a ZebraLight rep a couple of months ago if the SC63 would get the HI LED and he said that he doubted it. That is why I chose to order the SC600w HI MKIII. 

I also have the SC62d and comparing its hotspot with the HI against the wall, the HI has a slightly larger hot spot but massively more output.


----------



## Aldiggi

So the batteries on ZLs website good to go?


----------



## eraursls1984

Tachead said:


> I was just saying that I wished ZL would allow us to adjust the PIDs activation temperature.





recDNA said:


> 100X YES!


I think letting us program the H1 mode (M1 & L1 also) would be a nice solution. The highest H2 mode is almost as bright as H1 visibly, but takes a significantly longer time to heat up.


----------



## fnsooner

Aldiggi said:


> So the batteries on ZLs website good to go?


Only the red NCR18650GA will work on the new models from the choices on ZebraLight's web site.


----------



## Aldiggi

Just ordered my first ZL. Can't wait. I went with the cool white version of the SC600 MK III


----------



## kj2

fnsooner said:


> Only the red NCR18650GA will work on the new models from the choices on ZebraLight's web site.



My ZL dealer says the LG INR18650MJ1 is (also) a perfect fit.


----------



## sdr

Thanks for your impressions, fnsooner! I would suspect that you're probably right about the regular Mk III falling somewhere in between the two lights you did your comparisons with? But it still doesn't completely answer my question as to whether the new HI Mk III significantly out throws the regular Mk III? It's almost becoming a moot point because I think I'm gonna pass on the Mk III HI and just get an SC63 instead? I already have 3 iterations of the SC600 - Mk I, Mk II & Mk III. I really doubt that the HI is going to make that much of a difference to where I am absolutely compelled to get one? The SC63 on the other hand is a whole new ballgame. I never had an SC62 and the newer SC63 looks pretty darn nice! So far the reviews are sounding good, too.


----------



## sdr

Aldiggi said:


> Just ordered my first ZL. Can't wait. I went with the cool white version of the SC600 MK III



*BIG MISTAKE!

*Buying that first ZebraLight is like attempting to eat only one potato chip. You'll discover that it's impossible to eat one chip or own only one ZebraLight! It just can't be done! But I guess it's too late for you now? My best advice is to hold onto to your wallet and try to resist even though I know what a futile effort that will be. 

But, I must admit, you made an excellent first choice! Hopefully this first one will keep you happy and distracted from these message boards and ZebraLight's webpage for a little while before you ultimately succumb and place that next order? And then another and another. Well, you'll see! 

Enjoy your first ZebraLight! I can almost guarantee that it won't be your last.


----------



## Aldiggi

sdr said:


> *BIG MISTAKE!
> 
> *Buying that first ZebraLight is like attempting to eat only one potato chip. You'll discover that it's impossible to eat one chip or own only one ZebraLight! It just can't be done! But I guess it's too late for you now? My best advice is to hold onto to your wallet and try to resist even though I know what a futile effort that will be.
> 
> But, I must admit, you made an excellent first choice! Hopefully this first one will keep you happy and distracted from these message boards and ZebraLight's webpage for a little while before you ultimately succumb and place that next order? And then another and another. Well, you'll see!
> 
> Enjoy your first ZebraLight! I can almost guarantee that it won't be your last.


Oh I can see it coming lol. I can already imagine the top of my dresser filled with ZLs!!!!! I really can not wait.


----------



## Aldiggi

I also really love that they are based in the USA!!!


----------



## Screwball69N

fnsooner said:


> Only the red NCR18650GA will work on the new models from the choices on ZebraLight's web site.



Also ORBTRONIC 3500 High Drain Flat top they are even a better fit it fixes the battery rattle problem also


----------



## Screwball69N

sdr said:


> Well, I'm anxious to hear from someone with the Mk III HI version about just how much further it's throwing compared to the regular Mk III. I mean, wasn't this High Intensity light supposed to throw a focused beam considerably farther than the regular XHP35? Can anyone who owns both lights validate that claim?



yes I have both lights and still as I said earlier I don't think there's much more then a 50y difference but the wether outside where I live I. -10 below with -40 with windchill I'm having trouble getting real measurements but I'm not impressed so far with it


----------



## fnsooner

Screwball69N said:


> Also ORBTRONIC 3500 High Drain Flat top they are even a better fit it fixes the battery rattle problem also


No doubt it does. I was just referring to what was being sold on ZL’s site. I got the feeling that Aldiggi was about to pull the trigger on a light using ZebraLignt’s website and was just getting one last clarification on what battery he should get and then add it to the order.

How are you liking your new lights? Do you have all three of the new models?


----------



## Screwball69N

Screwball69N said:


> Also ORBTRONIC 3500 High Drain Flat top they are even a better fit it fixes the battery rattle problem also



They are same length but there black rap it just a slight bit bigger and litteraly no more rattle


----------



## Aldiggi

fnsooner said:


> No doubt it does. I was just referring to what was being sold on ZL’s site. I got the feeling that Aldiggi was about to pull the trigger on a light using ZebraLignt’s website and was just getting one last clarification on what battery he should get and then add it to the order.
> 
> How are you liking your new lights? Do you have all three of the new models?


I wonder what the backorder window is? Yeah it was just something to have to come along with the light. I ordered the orbtronics as well. There's never enough cells to have laying around [emoji12]


----------



## Screwball69N

fnsooner said:


> No doubt it does. I was just referring to what was being sold on ZL’s site. I got the feeling that Aldiggi was about to pull the trigger on a light using ZebraLignt’s website and was just getting one last clarification on what battery he should get and then add it to the order.
> 
> How are you liking your new lights? Do you have all three of the new models?



yes I have all three models close wall beam shots in earlier posts


----------



## fnsooner

Screwball69N said:


> yes I have all three models close wall beam shots in earlier posts


Ok, these ZebraLight threads are moving fast and are plentiful. Thanks for the pics!



Screwball69N said:


> Here they are just out of the mail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


----------



## fnsooner

Here's a quick pic of my own.





From left to right- First gen SC600, SC600w HI MK III, SC63w, SC62w, and SC60w.


----------



## recDNA

fnsooner said:


> No doubt it does. I was just referring to what was being sold on ZL’s site. I got the feeling that Aldiggi was about to pull the trigger on a light using ZebraLignt’s website and was just getting one last clarification on what battery he should get and then add it to the order.
> 
> How are you liking your new lights? Do you have all three of the new models?


Weren't they including a battery in USA orders?


----------



## snowlover91

Great comparison pic fnsooner! You can really see how well they've done at shrinking and streamlining their lights over the years.


----------



## sidecross

Aldiggi said:


> I wonder what the backorder window is? Yeah it was just something to have to come along with the light. I ordered the orbtronics as well. There's never enough cells to have laying around [emoji12]


If ordering from ZebraLight Inc. from Texas in the U.S. insist on it being shipped in a separate box and NOT shipped in the original box with a 'Priority Mail' sticker!

This is my second ZebraLight that has been lost or misplaced sent by Priority Mail from ZebraLight. Its not 'Rocket Science' to know the street value of ZebraLights, even if ZebraLight does not.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Weren't they including a battery in USA orders?



I believe that was done for the initial batch of the MK3 lights due to the confusion in regards to what battery needed to be used. Kind of a "sorry for the confusion, use this battery compliments of us" type of thing.


----------



## fnsooner

recDNA said:


> Weren't they including a battery in USA orders?


Yeah, I think a few early SC600 MK III lights were shipped with a battery. I noticed though that a couple of people who were expecting this didn’t get cells with their lights. I received flashlights only with my order.


----------



## holygeez03

The free 18650 only came with the orders that occurred while ZL didn't have a cell for sale that would fit the new lights... now they have a 65mm cell for $8 on their site.


----------



## RIX TUX

sdr said:


> Well, I'm anxious to hear from someone with the Mk III HI version about just how much further it's throwing compared to the regular Mk III. I mean, wasn't this High Intensity light supposed to throw a focused beam considerably farther than the regular XHP35? Can anyone who owns both lights validate that claim?


+1


----------



## scs

recDNA said:


> Screwball69N said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised. I thought spring would just compress more. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Given the current design, either the body needs to be longer or the tailcap deeper to accommodate longer cells.
Click to expand...


----------



## ateupwithgolf

RIX TUX said:


> +1



+2 

I want to see some beam shots between the MkIII HI and non HI, or thoughts of those who have the Mkii version vs. the newer ones.


----------



## snowlover91

There are some beamshots page 67 I believe of this. Comparing the MK3 to the HI version and SC63 also.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> Some would want no heat protection (crazy people). I would like it to come on sooner. I don't ever want it too hot to hold.



Yeah, I like this one a lot. It just doesn't seem to get hot, or even really warm! It's just too small of a light to be handling a lot of heat. I get the idea of "quick bursts", but it's just not necessary for me. I'll either carry a larger light, or settle for a cool/slightly dimmer compact light that runs comfortable, continuously.


----------



## fnsooner

I just ran some tailcap amp tests on my SC63w and SC600w HI MK III using four Sanyo NCR18650GA cells. I ran the tests several times and topped the cells off during the tests just to double check things. 

With cells at 4.20VDC I am getting a current reading of 6A on the MK III HI and 4.85A on the SC63w while in H1 mode.

I am going to discharge the cells to certain levels and run the tests again. I think my new SkyRC MC3000 can be set to discharge to set levels but I have never done it before. Now, where’s that manual?


----------



## Fireclaw18

fnsooner said:


> I just ran some tailcap amp tests on my SC63w and SC600w HI MK III using four Sanyo NCR18650GA cells. I ran the tests several times and topped the cells off during the tests just to double check things.
> 
> With cells at 4.20VDC I am getting a current reading of 6A on the MK III HI and 4.85A on the SC63w while in H1 mode.
> 
> I am going to discharge the cells to certain levels and run the tests again. I think my new SkyRC MC3000 can be set to discharge to set levels but I have never done it before. Now, where’s that manual?



Sounds like they tweaked the driver to not run so hard with the SC63w. Assuming your measurements were at turn-on with fresh cells and cold lights.


----------



## snowlover91

Fireclaw18 said:


> Sounds like they tweaked the driver to not run so hard with the SC63w. Assuming your measurements were at turn-on with fresh cells and cold lights.



It could be, I would love to see someone measure the lumen output and compare the SC63 with the MK3. I know swan on here has measured the MK3 CW version at 1600 lumens whereas it's rated for only 1300. Perhaps the lower amp draw of the SC63 indicates it's putting out around the 1100-1200 lumens and they decided to beef up the MK3 amp draw some?

Also of note according to Cree's website the XHP35 has a max current of 1.05a and can put out around 1800 lumens at that level while the XM-L2 is rated for 1050 lumens at a 3a current. Let's say ZL is pushing 1 amp to that XHP35, what are the other 4-5 amps being used for? Is that for the boost circuit perhaps?


----------



## fnsooner

Fireclaw18 said:


> Sounds like they tweaked the driver to not run so hard with the SC63w. *Assuming your measurements were at turn-on with fresh cells and cold lights.*


They were. I ran the tests several times through out the morning, topping off the batteries from time to time. The outcome was very consistent and repeatable.


----------



## sdr

fnsooner said:


> They were. I ran the tests several times through out the morning, topping off the batteries from time to time. The outcome was very consistent and repeatable.



Good show, mate! Amazing results, eh!


----------



## fnsooner

This could also explain ZebraLight's reasoning for going with the traditional spring on the SC63 and the pogo pins on the SC600 MK III.


----------



## fnsooner

FireClaw or anyone else, I do understand any skepticism while reading test results and wanting to know all the details. I am the same way. I take most things I read with a grain of salt and look for other testing to corroborate.

Any time any of my testing doesn’t look right, call me out. I am here for the truth, not to look good.

A few years ago I had a few projects where my tailcap readings weren’t jiving with what I thought they should be and what some others were getting. I suspected my leads on my DMM weren’t up to the job and causing a voltage drop. I went down to radio shack and got some 10A banana plugs that fit my DMM and some 10AWG wire. Over kill for what I am doing but all my readings since seem to make sense. 

Sometimes when I see someone’s reading that don’t look quite right, I think back to my experiences. I hope several people perform the same tests on these lights so that we can compare notes.


----------



## fnsooner

Ok, I discharged my NCR18650GA cells to 4.00VDC and am getting the same results. 6A for the SC MK III and 4.85 for the SC63w. Hmm, not exactly what I suspected would happen. Oh well, I am going to discharge my cells some more.


----------



## Fireclaw18

Thank you for testing this.

It's good to know there is a difference in amps, and likely output, between the 2 lights. 

I wonder if the cause of the reduction in amps is the driver or the tailcap. Are the tailcaps interchangeable fnsooner? If so, can you repeat the test with the SC600 MkIII tailcap on the SC63w and visa versa? :twothumbs


----------



## fnsooner

Actually, I am not checking the amp draw with the tail caps on. Tailcap readings may be the wrong description.
I am putting one lead of my DMM on the negative end of the battery(while cell is installed in light) and the other lead to the bare spot at the end of the battery tube of the light and then clicking the switch to on to get to H1. 

Hmm, things are going a little unexpected. Here are my 3.8VDC findings.

SC63w- When I first turn the light on the current is about the same as above, 4.85ish, but if I give it a couple of seconds the current starts climbing and at about 15 seconds or so it stabilizes at 5.2A with all cells. This is more of what I was expecting on the 4VDC test(voltage lower, amperage higher). I don’t think I gave it enough time to regulate on the 4 volt test and will re-test.

SC600w HI MK III- current goes directly to 4.2A and stays there. No matter how I tried to reposition my leads or double check what mode I was in, I get the same result, 4.2A with a quick click to on.


----------



## swan

After a week of owning a SC600 cw mark 111 i still am in awe of this powerhouse, just check out the lux figures versus a 4 cell Fenix Tk75 2900 lumen big banger on my lightbox after 30 seconds of run time.

The tk75 on 1200 lumen setting = 2250 Lux x 0.535 = [1204 lumen] on my light box [calibration figure of 1 lux = 0.535 lumen on my box]

The SC600 mk111 on h1 = 2910 Lux x 0.535 =1557 Lumens. So if you believe the tk75 is 1200 lumens this new mk111 is approx 30 % more powerful.

I was a bit hesitant is saying it has 1550 lumens at first, i mean why or how can it be so much higher than 1300 lumens, but my lightbox does not lie, the mk111 truly is the new big dog of the single 18650 cell lights. It has more than double the lumens and lux of the original sc600 mk1 750 lumen model and is almost the identical lumen output as my Thrunite TN32 1700 lumen model which to me is just plain incredible.

I am enjoying the easier to click ui switch and how smooth the pogo pin cap is when changing out a cell, with no loaded pressure of a spring.
One comment about heat -with this much output, make no mistake it gets hot within 90 secs and let me tell you it is border line un comfortable so i am con fused when i heard a comment that the new sc63 does not get hot? This would suggest maybe the sc63 is throttled down somewhat maybe the 63 is not as powerful.


----------



## Aldiggi

swan said:


> After a week of owning a SC600 cw mark 111 i still am in awe of this powerhouse, just check out the lux figures versus a 4 cell Fenix Tk75 2900 lumen big banger on my lightbox after 30 seconds of run time.
> 
> The tk75 on 1200 lumen setting = 2250 Lux x 0.535 = [1204 lumen] on my light box [calibration figure of 1 lux = 0.535 lumen on my box]
> 
> The SC600 mk111 on h1 = 2910 Lux x 0.535 =1557 Lumens. So if you believe the tk75 is 1200 lumens this new mk111 is approx 30 % more powerful.
> 
> I was a bit hesitant is saying it has 1550 lumens at first, i mean why or how can it be so much higher than 1300 lumens, but my lightbox does not lie, the mk111 truly is the new big dog of the single 18650 cell lights. It has more than double the lumens and lux of the original sc600 mk1 750 lumen model and is almost the identical lumen output as my Thrunite TN32 1700 lumen model which to me is just plain incredible.
> 
> I am enjoying the easier to click ui switch and how smooth the pogo pin cap is when changing out a cell, with no loaded pressure of a spring.
> One comment about heat -with this much output, make no mistake it gets hot within 90 secs and let me tell you it is border line un comfortable so i am con fused when i heard a comment that the new sc63 does not get hot? This would suggest maybe the sc63 is throttled down somewhat maybe the 63 is not as powerful.


Wow now I really can't wait!!!


----------



## swan

fnsooner said:


> Actually, I am not checking the amp draw with the tail caps on. Tailcap readings may be the wrong description.
> I am putting one lead of my DMM on the negative end of the battery(while cell is installed in light) and the other lead to the bare spot at the end of the battery tube of the light and then clicking the switch to on to get to H1.
> 
> Hmm, things are going a little unexpected. Here are my 3.8VDC findings.
> 
> SC63w- When I first turn the light on the current is about the same as above, 4.85ish, but if I give it a couple of seconds the current starts climbing and at about 15 seconds or so it stabilizes at 5.2A with all cells. This is more of what I was expecting on the 4VDC test(voltage lower, amperage higher). I don’t think I gave it enough time to regulate on the 4 volt test and will re-test.
> 
> SC600w HI MK III- current goes directly to 4.2A and stays there. No matter how I tried to reposition my leads or double check what mode I was in, I get the same result, 4.2A with a quick click to on.



Thanks for measuring- i can not get a proper reading off mine with my multi meter and its cheapo leads. i did flatten a 2600mah cell in 36mins which would suggest an average of 4.33amps.


----------



## markr6

Guess what showed up in my mailbox today??? The SC600 III I sold to another member and thought USPS stole/lost! It's been about a month and it made it's way back to me, not sure why since I used the right address. So that's $95 back in my pocket 

And I may keep it, not sure yet. One of those "don't know what you got til it's gone" situations. But once the SC600Fd Plus gets closer, I'm sure it will be a goner.


----------



## swan

Old vs new size comparison​


----------



## chillinn

swan said:


> Old vs new size comparison



Thanks for posting that pic. I never would have guessed either light was that small. Incredible.


----------



## snowlover91

What's incredible to me is the Nitecore EC4sw is putting out 1800-1900 lumens using 2 18650 cells and the MK3 is getting 1500-1600 lumens using just 1 cell.. Hard to believe such a small, compact light is capable of this type of output. Can't wait to get mine, they've been in the mailbox all weekend while I'm out of town....


----------



## Screwball69N

Alright I'm comparing the NITECORE P12GT. 25700 Cd 320m range cool white to the SC600w III HI 
from a guesstimation outside I m sure it's between 180-230 and not sure what the candle power is either but those numbers aren't exact but I'm sure there within 10m


----------



## GunnarGG

fnsooner said:


> I only have the SC63w and the SC600w HI MK III and can only give impressions of what I see. I walked around last night comparing the two. I am not set up for outdoor beam shots.
> 
> I would describe the SC63w as having a floody wall of light that reaches out to about 50 yards. The HI model has a large more defined hotspot that goes out to about 90 yards before it comes to a fairly abrupt drop off. They both seemed to put out roughly the same amount of light but just use it differently.
> 
> I really wasn’t sure what I was expecting out of the HI model. Maybe a pencil type beam going out to 200 yards and was a little disappointed at first coming to grips to how it actually performed. After adjusting my perception of what the beam profile of the HI actually is and using it in that scope, it is quite impressive. Walking around shining it into trees, within its range, is kind of shocking. Especially considering it is a four inch pocket light.
> 
> I have been caught at dusk golfing and have had to finish a couple of rounds using my SC62w. It worked great but this new HI model would have worked a lot better.
> 
> I would guess that the SC600w MK III’s beam profile would come somewhere in between the two lights I just discussed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked a ZebraLight rep a couple of months ago if the SC63 would get the HI LED and he said that he doubted it. That is why I chose to order the SC600w HI MKIII.
> 
> I also have the SC62d and comparing its hotspot with the HI against the wall, the HI has a slightly larger hot spot but massively more output.



Thanks fnsooner and everybody else for all comments about these lights in this and other threads.

I really like the size of my SC62D but it still is a little to big for me to carry in jeans pocket, prefer AAA for that.

Therefore it's more a jacket pocket light for me and the SC600W MkIII may work just as well concerning size.

And regarding output and especially beam profile I think that's the light I want.

I can also ad that even though the SC62d only puts out about 330 or 350 lumens I rarely use it on H1.
So wanting the SC600w MK III is just that - want, not need. ☺


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> What's incredible to me is the Nitecore EC4sw is putting out 1800-1900 lumens using 2 18650 cells and the MK3 is getting 1500-1600 lumens using just 1 cell.. Hard to believe such a small, compact light is capable of this type of output. Can't wait to get mine, they've been in the mailbox all weekend while I'm out of town....



I was comparing the two last night. The SC600 III definitely keeps up with the EC4SW! And my SC63w isn't too far behind. Good stuff!


----------



## tops2

How's the SC63 on H2A in terms of thermal stepping down and heat? It sounds like the max H1 is too much for the SC63 to handle..

Just curious too the H2B (312lm) of the SC63w vs H2A (304lm) of the SC5w? I know they use different LED but the website lists the head of SC5w slightly larger than the SC63w (25.4mm vs 24.5mm).


But thanks everyone for the feedback. It's exciting the past few days to see the all the responses.


----------



## markr6

Decided to sell my SC600MK III that USPS lost and finally returned to me yesterday. I love it, but having a mix of cool and neutral tints is too much for anal-retentive person like me!


----------



## newbie66

markr6 said:


> Guess what showed up in my mailbox today??? The SC600 III I sold to another member and thought USPS stole/lost! It's been about a month and it made it's way back to me, not sure why since I used the right address. So that's $95 back in my pocket
> 
> And I may keep it, not sure yet. One of those "don't know what you got til it's gone" situations. But once the SC600Fd Plus gets closer, I'm sure it will be a goner.




Good for you! 
As for me I lost my H600w mkii so thats 89$ down the drain. At least I got to use it for 1 1/2 years.


----------



## recDNA

swan said:


> After a week of owning a SC600 cw mark 111 i still am in awe of this powerhouse, just check out the lux figures versus a 4 cell Fenix Tk75 2900 lumen big banger on my lightbox after 30 seconds of run time.
> 
> The tk75 on 1200 lumen setting = 2250 Lux x 0.535 = [1204 lumen] on my light box [calibration figure of 1 lux = 0.535 lumen on my box]
> 
> The SC600 mk111 on h1 = 2910 Lux x 0.535 =1557 Lumens. So if you believe the tk75 is 1200 lumens this new mk111 is approx 30 % more powerful.
> 
> I was a bit hesitant is saying it has 1550 lumens at first, i mean why or how can it be so much higher than 1300 lumens, but my lightbox does not lie, the mk111 truly is the new big dog of the single 18650 cell lights. It has more than double the lumens and lux of the original sc600 mk1 750 lumen model and is almost the identical lumen output as my Thrunite TN32 1700 lumen model which to me is just plain incredible.
> 
> I am enjoying the easier to click ui switch and how smooth the pogo pin cap is when changing out a cell, with no loaded pressure of a spring.
> One comment about heat -with this much output, make no mistake it gets hot within 90 secs and let me tell you it is border line un comfortable so i am con fused when i heard a comment that the new sc63 does not get hot? This would suggest maybe the sc63 is throttled down somewhat maybe the 63 is not as powerful.


I don't understand your lux numbers. They seem too low. What would ANSI candela be using those readings?


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Well said



GunnarGG said:


> Thanks fnsooner and everybody else for all comments about these lights in this and other threads.
> 
> I really like the size of my SC62D but it still is a little to big for me to carry in jeans pocket, prefer AAA for that.
> 
> Therefore it's more a jacket pocket light for me and the SC600W MkIII may work just as well concerning size.
> 
> And regarding output and especially beam profile I think that's the light I want.
> 
> I can also add that even though the SC62d only puts out about 330 or 350 lumens I rarely use it on H1.
> So wanting the SC600w MK III is just that - want, not need. ☺



For a compact travel light when space is at a premium, an SC600d MK III Hi CRI may be desirable, where the extra lumens could come in handy, and you don't have a more powerful torch for whatever reason. I'll probably stick with the SC62d for nightly/(some)daytime house-use, but would suggest an SC63d to anyone wanting a practical, very functional, very effective illumination device. (4000K temperature is too warm and 6000K is too cold for this user)


----------



## KeepingItLight

fnsooner said:


> With cells at 4.20VDC I am getting a current reading of 6A on the MK III HI...





snowlover91 said:


> Also of note: according to Cree's website, the XHP35 has a max current of 1.05a, and can put out around 1800 lumens at that level, while the XM-L2 is rated for 1050 lumens at a 3a current. Let's say ZL is pushing 1 amp to that XHP35, what are the other 4-5 amps being used for? Is that for the boost circuit perhaps?



Right. 

The boost circuit converts low voltage at high amperage into higher voltage at lower amperage. If we may take your 1 amp guesstimate at the emitter to be in the ballpark, then we have:

Boost circuit input = battery voltage at battery current = 4.2v at 6a
Boost circuit output = emitter voltage at emitter current = ~12v at 1a


----------



## snowlover91

KeepingItLight said:


> Right.
> 
> The boost circuit converts low voltage at high amperage into higher voltage at lower amperage. If we may take your 1 amp guesstimate at the emitter to be in the ballpark, then we have:
> 
> Boost circuit input = battery voltage at battery current = 4.2v at 6a
> Boost circuit output = emitter voltage at emitter current = ~12v at 1a



What I don't understand is from Cree's specs the XM-L2 being rated at 1050 lumens at 3 amps while the XHP-35 is rated for 1800 lumens at 1.05 amps. However their data sheet also indicates the efficiency of the XM-L2 at 170lm/w and 172lm/w for the XHP35. I'm not sure I understand how that works if one pulls 3 times as many amps to produce less output? Thanks for the explanation, does 4-5 amps for the boost circuit sound right or is that inefficient?


----------



## swan

recDNA said:


> I don't understand your lux numbers. They seem too low. What would ANSI candela be using those readings?



This is Not a candela reading, this is the lux reading from a light box to measure lumens.


----------



## Aldiggi

Why am I craving already other Zebralights lol.


----------



## snowlover91

Aldiggi said:


> Why am I craving already other Zebralights lol.



Welcome to the dark side  I'll finally be home tonight and we have a snow/ice system moving in so I'll get some fun weather to test them out in! I can hardly wait lol.


----------



## Aldiggi

snowlover91 said:


> Welcome to the dark side  I'll finally be home tonight and we have a snow/ice system moving in so I'll get some fun weather to test them out in! I can hardly wait lol.


Ha-ha!!! I guess you guys can welcome me in lol. Awesome!!! Enjoy buddy.


----------



## gunga

snowlover91 said:


> What I don't understand is from Cree's specs the XM-L2 being rated at 1050 lumens at 3 amps while the XHP-35 is rated for 1800 lumens at 1.05 amps. However their data sheet also indicates the efficiency of the XM-L2 at 170lm/w and 172lm/w for the XHP35. I'm not sure I understand how that works if one pulls 3 times as many amps to produce less output? Thanks for the explanation, does 4-5 amps for the boost circuit sound right or is that inefficient?



Remember a Watt is volts x Amps. So since the xph35 is about 12 volts and 1 amp to achieve 1800 LED lumens, the battery needs to provide 12 watts. The battery provides say 4 volts and needs 3 Amps to produce 12 watts. This is only for 100% efficiency with no loss, which is unrealistic. Circuit efficiency is what, 75-90%? Also keep in mind we are talking LED lumens. So if you want out the front lumens figure 15-25% losses. So 4-6 Amps at the battery makes sense.


----------



## Aldiggi

Picking up this little powerhouse. All the reviews are great online for Zebralights.


----------



## swan

snowlover91 said:


> What I don't understand is from Cree's specs the XM-L2 being rated at 1050 lumens at 3 amps while the XHP-35 is rated for 1800 lumens at 1.05 amps. However their data sheet also indicates the efficiency of the XM-L2 at 170lm/w and 172lm/w for the XHP35. I'm not sure I understand how that works if one pulls 3 times as many amps to produce less output? Thanks for the explanation, does 4-5 amps for the boost circuit sound right or is that inefficient?



I will try to explain- AN xml2 in [ approx values] would require approx 3.5volts at 3amps current =10.5 watts to achieve 1050 lumens
A xhp 35 requires [approx] 12v at 1.05amps of current =12.60 watts to achieve 1800 lumens. [ if it was drawing 5amps at 12v= 60 watts.]
So - amps x volts = watts.
When we here a statement the "sc600 is pulling 4 .5 amps"[ for example only] this refers the current being drawn from a battery at its voltage of 3.7v/4.2 volts, not the current directly measured to drive the led.
Hope this helps a little, its kinda hard to explain with out writing a full page.

EDIT Gunga beat me to it.


----------



## KeepingItLight

snowlover91 said:


> What I don't understand is from Cree's specs the XM-L2 being rated at 1050 lumens at 3 amps while the XHP-35 is rated for 1800 lumens at 1.05 amps. However their data sheet also indicates the efficiency of the XM-L2 at 170lm/w and 172lm/w for the XHP35. I'm not sure I understand how that works if one pulls 3 times as many amps to produce less output? Thanks for the explanation, does 4-5 amps for the boost circuit sound right or is that inefficient?



As to your last question, I cannot say. You have reached the limit of my expertise!

In general, boost circuits are not very efficient, especially when compared to the buck circuits used in many other designs. Nevertheless, my own preference is for boost drivers. I like the predictable, flat output they produce. I have read that 75-80% efficiency is not uncommon in a boost driver. I do not know the efficiency of the ZebraLight design.

Given this ballpark, there is an obvious problem with the guesstimates we made above. Power, measured in watts, is the rate at which energy is consumed (or delivered). In DC circuits, power may be calculated directly as the product of current and voltage. For the estimates given above, that produces:

Power delivered from battery = 4.2 volts x 6 amps = 25.2 watts
Power delivered to emitter = 12 volts x 1 amp = 12 watts 

If these numbers were true, then the efficiency would be less than 50%! The exact value is 12 divided by 25.2, or 47.6%.

This result is disappointing, to say the least. To me, it indicates that something is probably wrong with my calculations, or else the guesstimates of emitter current or voltage are wrong...

Or perhaps not.


----------



## fnsooner

Another thing that would probably affect the numbers is that my voltage listings are of the battery at rest. I would imagine that there is some voltage sag at 6A even with the GA cells.


----------



## M52 POWER!

Guys I too was annoyed by the fact my ZL had the terrible 18650 rattle and was set on figuring out why some lights do and don't exhibit this issue. Thankfully one of my close friends is a ZL dealer and happened to have 8 of the MKIII's in stock to compare against, about half rattled...

Using a digital caliper I measured battery tube ID (consistently 18.83-18.84mm), tube depth, cap depth etc. What stood out as a major difference was the battery clearance compared to an installed 18650 to the tube face (that contacts the tube cap mechanically and electrically.) 

See measurement point: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvazVScHhMUGZveXM

My light measured 1.66mm battery to tube face, the non-rattling lights 1.51-1.57mm! This issue can be further proven by seeing and measuring how little the spring loaded contacts are able to move up/down.

So essentially yes, the battery tube ID is still too large, but for the lights that don't rattle it's not the ID that is different _but the spring pad pressure is enough to prevent the cell from moving._

To fix this I used some 400 grit wet sand paper and wet sanded it until I measured 1.52 to the battery, finished with 1000 grit, cleaned the threads, installed the cap and voila absolutely ZERO battery rattle!

If you guys are as picky as me I recommend this quick 5 minute fix.

Tips: 


When wet sanding the face, ROTATE the flashlight onto the sand paper with firm downward pressure, do NOT scrape the flashlight up/down left/right, this will bring the face out of "square" and reduce face to cap electrical contact.
Finish sanding the face with 1000 grit.
Thoroughly clean the threads to prevent "sanding grit" from contaminating and ruining the threads over time...

Before: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcnlyUEFXZVlZUzg
After: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcjNEakZXSkwzTWc


----------



## KeepingItLight

^^^ Awesome post by M52 POWER!


----------



## markr6

KeepingItLight said:


> ^^^ Awesome post by M52 POWER!



+1 well done!


----------



## sdr

KeepingItLight said:


> ^^^ Awesome post by M52 POWER!



+2 Thanks!


----------



## Tixx

Did these ship? I have met been here for about 20 pages of posts.


----------



## Fireclaw18

Tixx said:


> Did these ship? I have met been here for about 20 pages of posts.



The first SC600 Mk IIIs in cool and neutral white shipped about a month ago. 

The first SC600 III with XPL HI and SC63 and SC63w just shipped last week. A few early preorders already received them.

... so yes... all of these have shipped.


----------



## markr6

Tixx said:


> Did these ship? I have met been here for about 20 pages of posts.



I have an SC600 III for sale if you or anyone is interested. $90 in the for sale area.


----------



## psychbeat

M52 POWER! said:


> Before: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcnlyUEFXZVlZUzg
> After: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcjNEakZXSkwzTWc



AWESOME. 
THANK YOU


----------



## newbie66

M52 POWER! said:


> Before: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcnlyUEFXZVlZUzg
> After: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcjNEakZXSkwzTWc



:thumbsup:


----------



## Tachead

M52 POWER! said:


> Guys I too was annoyed by the fact my ZL had the terrible 18650 rattle and was set on figuring out why some lights do and don't exhibit this issue. Thankfully one of my close friends is a ZL dealer and happened to have 8 of the MKIII's in stock to compare against, about half rattled...
> 
> Using a digital caliper I measured battery tube ID (consistently 18.83-18.84mm), tube depth, cap depth etc. What stood out as a major difference was the battery clearance compared to an installed 18650 to the tube face (that contacts the tube cap mechanically and electrically.)
> 
> See measurement point: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvazVScHhMUGZveXM
> 
> My light measured 1.66mm battery to tube face, the non-rattling lights 1.51-1.57mm! This issue can be further proven by seeing and measuring how little the spring loaded contacts are able to move up/down.
> 
> So essentially yes, the battery tube ID is still too large, but for the lights that don't rattle it's not the ID that is different _but the spring pad pressure is enough to prevent the cell from moving._
> 
> To fix this I used some 400 grit wet sand paper and wet sanded it until I measured 1.52 to the battery, finished with 1000 grit, cleaned the threads, installed the cap and voila absolutely ZERO battery rattle!
> 
> If you guys are as picky as me I recommend this quick 5 minute fix.
> 
> Tips:
> 
> 
> When wet sanding the face, ROTATE the flashlight onto the sand paper with firm downward pressure, do NOT scrape the flashlight up/down left/right, this will bring the face out of "square" and reduce face to cap electrical contact.
> Finish sanding the face with 1000 grit.
> Thoroughly clean the threads to prevent "sanding grit" from contaminating and ruining the threads over time...
> 
> Before: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcnlyUEFXZVlZUzg
> After: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcjNEakZXSkwzTWc



Or Zebralight could just do it right in the first place. A customer shouldn't have to mod a light to make it work how it should have in the first place. Or, maybe they shouldn't use a spring design with such low tolerance and then this never would have been an issue. Hey, maybe this was part of the reason they decided to go back to the spring tail cap for the SC63? Either way, this is why I be patient and never buy from the first few batches of any product, especially a Zebralight product. I prefer to wait until they have ironed the wrinkles out and not be a beta tester.


----------



## sidecross

M52 POWER! said:


> Guys I too was annoyed by the fact my ZL had the terrible 18650 rattle and was set on figuring out why some lights do and don't exhibit this issue. Thankfully one of my close friends is a ZL dealer and happened to have 8 of the MKIII's in stock to compare against, about half rattled...
> 
> Using a digital caliper I measured battery tube ID (consistently 18.83-18.84mm), tube depth, cap depth etc. What stood out as a major difference was the battery clearance compared to an installed 18650 to the tube face (that contacts the tube cap mechanically and electrically.)
> 
> See measurement point: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvazVScHhMUGZveXM
> 
> My light measured 1.66mm battery to tube face, the non-rattling lights 1.51-1.57mm! This issue can be further proven by seeing and measuring how little the spring loaded contacts are able to move up/down.
> 
> So essentially yes, the battery tube ID is still too large, but for the lights that don't rattle it's not the ID that is different _but the spring pad pressure is enough to prevent the cell from moving._
> 
> To fix this I used some 400 grit wet sand paper and wet sanded it until I measured 1.52 to the battery, finished with 1000 grit, cleaned the threads, installed the cap and voila absolutely ZERO battery rattle!
> 
> If you guys are as picky as me I recommend this quick 5 minute fix.
> 
> Tips:
> 
> 
> When wet sanding the face, ROTATE the flashlight onto the sand paper with firm downward pressure, do NOT scrape the flashlight up/down left/right, this will bring the face out of "square" and reduce face to cap electrical contact.
> Finish sanding the face with 1000 grit.
> Thoroughly clean the threads to prevent "sanding grit" from contaminating and ruining the threads over time...
> 
> Before: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcnlyUEFXZVlZUzg
> After: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwexBhMBs1XvcjNEakZXSkwzTWc


I measured my newer SC600 Mk lll that arrived 2/13/16 and with a LG 18650 D1 3000mAh 4.35 volts at specs at 64.9mm in length by measurement to battery was 1.35mm. A visual inspection of my light and the photograph provided shows a noticeable difference.


----------



## snowlover91

Back in town today and had a chance to test out my new MK3 HI, I'm loving it so far! The throw is much better than I was expecting, I'll post a few beam shot comparisons when I get a chance. The pogo pins work great, no battery rattle whatsoever so it appears ZL has fixed the issue that occurred with the initial batch of MK3 lights. Tint on the HI version is EXCELLENT. I would put it right around 4400-4500k and the 80cri is nice. It's a very clean tint, no rings that I can see or purple/green or yellow hues. Just a nice clean 4500k tint. Will do some tailcap measurements soon but I must say I'm really liking this light! Only thing is I wish it had a screw on clip like the other ZL lights do but not a big deal.


----------



## snowlover91

Also KIL, gunga and swan, thank you for the explanations on watts vs amps that does make sense and helped me understand!


----------



## oneinthaair

snowlover91 said:


> Back in town today and had a chance to test out my new MK3 HI, I'm loving it so far! The throw is much better than I was expecting, I'll post a few beam shot comparisons when I get a chance. The pogo pins work great, no battery rattle whatsoever so it appears ZL has fixed the issue that occurred with the initial batch of MK3 lights. Tint on the HI version is EXCELLENT. I would put it right around 4400-4500k and the 80cri is nice. It's a very clean tint, no rings that I can see or purple/green or yellow hues. Just a nice clean 4500k tint. Will do some tailcap measurements soon but I must say I'm really liking this light! Only thing is I wish it had a screw on clip like the other ZL lights do but not a big deal.



This is how you fix the clip

Dark sucks Ti clip for Surefire


----------



## Lucky Duck

When using the Dark Sucks Ti clip did you have to "build up" the tailcap, say with foil or some such?


----------



## recDNA

I hope someone will measure the throw of the mkIII HI model. I have no idea of what it would be.


----------



## newbie66

snowlover91 said:


> Back in town today and had a chance to test out my new MK3 HI, I'm loving it so far! The throw is much better than I was expecting, I'll post a few beam shot comparisons when I get a chance. The pogo pins work great, no battery rattle whatsoever so it appears ZL has fixed the issue that occurred with the initial batch of MK3 lights. Tint on the HI version is EXCELLENT. I would put it right around 4400-4500k and the 80cri is nice. It's a very clean tint, no rings that I can see or purple/green or yellow hues. Just a nice clean 4500k tint. Will do some tailcap measurements soon but I must say I'm really liking this light! Only thing is I wish it had a screw on clip like the other ZL lights do but not a big deal.



Good thing I don't use pocket clips. I am more interested in the lanyard hole. Gonna try to secure the light to my belt/pants with a string of some kind. Waiting for your beamshots!!


----------



## newbie66

Did not expect the Dark Sucks clip to work on a Zebralight. Looks good.


----------



## oneinthaair

Lucky Duck said:


> When using the Dak Sucks Ti clip did you have to "build up" the tailcap, say with foil or some such?



Yes I used a piece of flat copper wire to make contact with the body.


----------



## snowlover91

As promised a few MK3 HI beam shots compared with my best thrower, a P60 with Nichia pushing 400-450 lumens from Mountain Electronics. I don't own any lights designed as a true thrower so probably not the best comparison but since a lot of people are familiar with the P60 drop ins and the Nichia emitter maybe it will give a good idea.

P60 with Nichia on left, MK3 HI on right. Both are on similar output levels but not exact.






MK3 HI by itself





XHP35 HI emitter.





MK3 HI beside SC63w


----------



## newbie66

Nice, thanks a lot for pics. Tempting...

The p60 seems to have smaller hotspot. I guess it would throw further?


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Tachead said:


> Or Zebralight could just do it right in the first place. A customer shouldn't have to mod a light to make it work how it should have in the first place. Or, maybe they shouldn't use a spring design with such low tolerance and then this never would have been an issue. Hey, maybe this was part of the reason they decided to go back to the spring tail cap for the SC63? Either way, this is why I be patient and never buy from the first few batches of any product, especially a Zebralight product. I prefer to wait until they have ironed the wrinkles out and not be a beta tester.



Wow
A Member provides a solution for us regarding a new flashlight that is not perfect, and you chastise the maker for not being perfect enough? Then your criticism of the early adopter members here (clearly not as savvy as you) like you think people need to be told what to do (your way)

Your posts do not read like you did them after cocktail hour, or after loading up on caffeine, but if you haven't noticed, you're averaging almost 14 posts a day. Just wondering if you work for the server farm for CPF, or maybe you got banned from CPF before. Please don't respond on this thread.

Still have not read a description, or a visual, of the difference in throw between the MK III Hi, and the standard MKIII, and the SC63. It is hard to wade through all the stuff on these multiple threads. They are beautiful lights with what looks like some quite nice tints.


----------



## snowlover91

KITROBASKIN said:


> Wow
> A Member provides a solution for us regarding a new flashlight that is not perfect, and you chastise the maker for not being perfect enough? Then your criticism of the early adopter members here (clearly not as savvy as you) like you think people need to be told what to do (your way)
> 
> Your posts do not read like you did them after cocktail hour, or after loading up on caffeine, but if you haven't noticed, you're averaging almost 14 posts a day. Just wondering if you work for the server farm for CPF, or maybe you got banned from CPF before. Please don't respond on this thread.
> 
> Still have not read a description, or a visual, of the difference in throw between the MK III Hi, and the standard MKIII, and the SC63. It is hard to wade through all the stuff on these multiple threads. They are beautiful lights with what looks like some quite nice tints.



I don't have the MK3 but I did get a comparison pic of the MK3 HI vs the SC63w. The MK3 HI is on the right.


----------



## snowlover91

newbie66 said:


> Nice, thanks a lot for pics. Tempting...
> 
> The p60 seems to have smaller hotspot. I guess it would throw further?



Yep the P60 uses a smaller LED, the Nichia 219 and has a much wider and deeper reflector so it has a tighter hotspot. However it only gets 400-450 lumens whereas I would estimate about 1200-1250 from the MK3 HI. It would probably throw further just due to the extra output although I haven't had a chance to test outdoors yet.

Forgot to add, battery rattle is nonexistent in my MK3 with pogo pins. It screws down nice and tight so no issues, you can actually feel the pogo pins fully compress the last half to three quarters turn which means the early problems with these appears to be corrected.


----------



## scs

newbie66 said:


> Nice, thanks a lot for pics. Tempting...
> 
> The p60 seems to have smaller hotspot. I guess it would throw further?



P60 with XPL HI gets over 20k CD and out throws the ZL HI even more.


----------



## Tachead

KITROBASKIN said:


> Wow
> A Member provides a solution for us regarding a new flashlight that is not perfect, and you chastise the maker for not being perfect enough? Then your criticism of the early adopter members here (clearly not as savvy as you) like you think people need to be told what to do (your way)
> 
> Your posts do not read like you did them after cocktail hour, or after loading up on caffeine, but if you haven't noticed, you're averaging almost 14 posts a day. Just wondering if you work for the server farm for CPF, or maybe you got banned from CPF before. Please don't respond on this thread.
> 
> Still have not read a description, or a visual, of the difference in throw between the MK III Hi, and the standard MKIII, and the SC63. It is hard to wade through all the stuff on these multiple threads. They are beautiful lights with what looks like some quite nice tints.



Hey man, if everyone just mods their new light instead of sending them back, ZL gets away with their shoddy QC and/or using "early adopters" as you put them as beta testers. They might not even ever know there is an issue if it isnt reported and that could cause them to take longer to fix it or possibly never fix it. As for my "criticism" again, your words, people can do as they wish but, I have had better luck not buying newly released items and learned from my many years as a mechanic that new models often have issues that are remedied in later batches/model years. I have also learned from reading on here and other sites that ZL is kind of infamous for having bugs with its new releases. Maybe not everyone knows those facts.

I am not sure what your point is with this second paragraph? I dont work for any server nor have I been banned from this forum or any other. Maybe we should stick top talking about these new Zebralights eh.


----------



## Tachead

Thanks for the comparisons and pics guys:thumbsup:. Hopefully someone can post some outdoor beamshots of the SC600w MKIII, SC600w MKIII HI, and SC63w for comparison.


----------



## newbie66

snowlover91 said:


> Yep the P60 uses a smaller LED, the Nichia 219 and has a much wider and deeper reflector so it has a tighter hotspot. However it only gets 400-450 lumens whereas I would estimate about 1200-1250 from the MK3 HI. It would probably throw further just due to the extra output although I haven't had a chance to test outdoors yet.
> 
> Forgot to add, battery rattle is nonexistent in my MK3 with pogo pins. It screws down nice and tight so no issues, you can actually feel the pogo pins fully compress the last half to three quarters turn which means the early problems with these appears to be corrected.



Thx for the clarification.

Concerning pogo pins, my SC5 needs to be screwed really tight for maximum output. Otherwise it will be a lot less and a bit of flicker. I think it is something to do with the pogo pins a bit short? But when screwed tight it is fine.


----------



## snowlover91

newbie66 said:


> Thx for the clarification.
> 
> Concerning pogo pins, my SC5 needs to be screwed really tight for maximum output. Otherwise it will be a lot less and a bit of flicker. I think it is something to do with the pogo pins a bit short? But when screwed tight it is fine.



Hmmm what battery are you using? Always screw the tailcap fully and it should be fine. Any battery rattle?


----------



## snowlover91

Aso regarding tint I will say that both my SC63w and MK3 HI have a nice clean tint, no yellow or green hues which is good. Hopefully we can get more reports to see if I won the "tint lottery" or if these new XHP35 emitters are going to have better consistency. I would compare the tint to my Nichia 219, a nice clean tint with a slight golden/tan. Much better than my SC62w tint which has a hint of yellow in it.


----------



## CelticCross74

Just ordered the MkIII HI and the red 3500mah Samsung cell to go with it. It is good to know these are finally shipping. I was under the impression they were not shipping yet. Am looking very forward to getting these things in the mail. Wonder how long the free shipping takes? I hope that red Samsung cell was the right one. It is the only cell that comes up under accessories for the light.


----------



## newbie66

snowlover91 said:


> Hmmm what battery are you using? Always screw the tailcap fully and it should be fine. Any battery rattle?



I used Sanyo eneloop and yes there is battery rattle if I shake it.


----------



## newbie66

double post


----------



## M52 POWER!

sidecross said:


> I measured my newer SC600 Mk lll that arrived 2/13/16 and with a LG 18650 D1 3000mAh 4.35 volts at specs at 64.9mm in length by measurement to battery was 1.35mm. A visual inspection of my light and the photograph provided shows a noticeable difference.



Also make sure when measuring against the battery that the battery is pushed down so it is compressing the positive side spring contact pads.


----------



## fnsooner

CelticCross74 said:


> Just ordered the MkIII HI and the red 3500mah Samsung cell to go with it. It is good to know these are finally shipping. I was under the impression they were not shipping yet. Am looking very forward to getting these things in the mail. Wonder how long the free shipping takes? I hope that red Samsung cell was the right one. It is the only cell that comes up under accessories for the light.


Actually, it is the red Samyo that is the correct battery to buy. As far as how long the free shipping takes, usually two or three days. These lights have started shipping. Some people in the US who pre-ordered on 01/01 have had theirs delivered in the last few days but they sold out fast and everything is in backorder status. I believe it was a first come first serve thing and some who ordered on 01/01 didn’t make the cut. Reports are that another shipment will go out by the end of February. No telling how many will ship.

BTW, I am very much looking forward to your impressions of the HI model. From reading your posts, I have noticed that you have quite a few flashlights with the High Intensity LED. I only own one flashlight with the HI LED and it is an XP-L in a 2.5 inch bezel and a 2 inch deep reflector and wasn’t a very good indicator of what the ZL HI would do.

I received the SC600w HI MK III a couple of days ago. I would call it a beast of a light and I really like it but I am not sure I would call it a thrower. It would be nice to hear from your perspective and comparisons to other High Intensity variants that you own.


----------



## Aldiggi

CelticCross74 said:


> Just ordered the MkIII HI and the red 3500mah Samsung cell to go with it. It is good to know these are finally shipping. I was under the impression they were not shipping yet. Am looking very forward to getting these things in the mail. Wonder how long the free shipping takes? I hope that red Samsung cell was the right one. It is the only cell that comes up under accessories for the light.


I did the same as you CelticCross74. Might just stick with ZLs from here on out. Its very comforting to know that if I have a problem this company is based right here in our own back yard.


----------



## snowlover91

newbie66 said:


> I used Sanyo eneloop and yes there is battery rattle if I shake it.



Hmm if there is battery rattle when the tailcap is fully screwed on then you may want to get ZL to send you a new one. None of my SC5 lights do this when the tailcap is fully tightened.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

I'd be interested to see an outdoor beam shot comparison between the Nitecore MH20 and the SC600w mkIII. Similar size, neutral tints, single 18650.


----------



## CelticCross74

Okay I just rechecked the ZL site. The cell is indeed a Sanyo. I have roughly 50 lights in my collection. I often sell and trade some off because I just do not have the room for more than that. I believe I have a dozen XP-L HI lights of differing outputs, power sources and reflector sizes. They all put out different profiles, almost all of them have different tints and all of them throw like crazy. Main thing I noticed about my HI's is that the beams have slightly better definition than XM-L's. I also have almost a dozen non HI XP-L lights (V5 and V6)and am equally fond of those as well. The non HI XP-L lights I have are bright as hell and are more consistent in tint than their HI counterparts. The only XP-L HD light I have that has a drastically different tint is my CW XP-L HD TN4A. My other HD lights are all a searingly bright white.

I will post my experiences with the new ZL. Should be interesting as I dont know much at all about the XHP35 emitter. Must also note I just got the ET S200C2 XP-L HI and am very impressed with it. The beam it puts out is solid, defined and when its good and dark out looks like a giant light sabre.


----------



## sidecross

M52 POWER! said:


> Also make sure when measuring against the battery that the battery is pushed down so it is compressing the positive side spring contact pads.


I used only the weight of the battery to make contact with the bottom spring; my measurement was taken several times with care as NOT to be compressing more than the battery weight in a vertical position.


----------



## markr6

newbie66 said:


> I used Sanyo eneloop and yes there is battery rattle if I shake it.



I put a clear shrink wrapper on mine using a hair dryer. Works perfect! Just $1.00/10pack from Illumn


----------



## sticktodrum

markr6 said:


> I put a clear shrink wrapper on mine using a hair dryer. Works perfect! Just $1.00/10pack from Illumn


I did the same. Fits perfectly, no rattle even with hard shaking.


----------



## newbie66

snowlover91 said:


> Hmm if there is battery rattle when the tailcap is fully screwed on then you may want to get ZL to send you a new one. None of my SC5 lights do this when the tailcap is fully tightened.





Well the rattle is only when I shake it a bit hard. When tail cap fully tightened it still functions well enough. Sending it back is quite a hassle so I will just tolerate it.


----------



## snowlover91

An interesting observation, when I looked at my 18650ga cells after putting them in the MK3 Hi, the contact pressure is actually quite strong on these lights with pogo pins. It left 3 little tiny "indents" in the top of the positive terminal of the battery, that's how strong the contact pressure is. Pretty impressive for pogo pins. Furthermore no extra shrink wrap or anything on the batteries and they have no rattle no matter how hard I shake the light.


----------



## Tachead

ateupwithgolf said:


> I'd be interested to see an outdoor beam shot comparison between the Nitecore MH20 and the SC600w mkIII. Similar size, neutral tints, single 18650.



Here are some from a different thread(cool white versions though). As you can see, the MH20 has a tighter hotspot and appears to out throw the SC600 MKIII by quite a bit(due to the larger head, deeper smooth reflector). The spills are similar brightness(maybe a bit brighter on the SC600 MKIII) but, the SC600MKIII has a bit wider(more floody) spill.

MH20







SC600 MKIII






These are from this thread...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?413103-NEW-MANKER-U11-QUINLAN


----------



## gunga

You guys are funny. I have battery rattle in my Sc62 (dual spring) when I use certain batteries. I just use a post it note or ignore it. In normal use I don't tend to vigorously shakd my light but maybe I'm just unique.


----------



## Fireclaw18

gunga said:


> You guys are funny. I have battery rattle in my Sc62 (dual spring) when I use certain batteries. I just use a post it note or ignore it. In normal use I don't tend to vigorously shakd my light but maybe I'm just unique.



Good idea. Just wrap a Post it note around the battery. Costs almost nothing, doesn't damage the light, takes virtually no time to do. Reusable.


----------



## gunga

Yep. Also works with AA and AAA batteries etc. Sometimes I need 2 if the tube is loose. My expensive Ti spinner AA light (more than double the price of a zebralight) has quite a bit of battery rattle. Never seen anyone complain about it (fan boys can be very forgiving). I use 2 post it notes there. Works fine.


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> You guys are funny. I have battery rattle in my Sc62 (dual spring) when I use certain batteries. I just use a post it note or ignore it. In normal use I don't tend to vigorously shakd my light but maybe I'm just unique.



Its more just the principle of it. Zebralight charges a premium price for their lights and none of my much cheaper Chinese lights have any rattle at all. If you charge a premium price for your product, you have to supply a premium product with better performance, fit and finish, features, quality control, exc. then your lower price price competitors imo. If you dont, people will feel shorted and complain and/or not buy your products.


----------



## sidecross

Tachead said:


> Its more just the principle of it. Zebralight charges a premium price for their lights and none of my much cheaper Chinese lights have any rattle at all. If you charge a premium price for your product, you have to supply a premium product with better performance, fit and finish, features, quality control, exc. then your lower price price competitors imo. If you dont, people will feel shorted and complain and/or not buy your products.


I consider the newest ZebraLight SC600 Mk lll to be a premium light with cutting edge technology; Their market is for those who know enough to know the difference between marketing and innovation.


----------



## gunga

Tachead said:


> Its more just the principle of it. Zebralight charges a premium price for their lights and none of my much cheaper Chinese lights have any rattle at all. If you charge a premium price for your product, you have to supply a premium product with better performance, fit and finish, features, quality control, exc. then your lower price price competitors imo. If you dont, people will feel shorted and complain and/or not buy your products.



Did you read my point about the costly ti custom light that costs twice as much as a zebralight and has rattle?


----------



## Tachead

sidecross said:


> I consider the newest ZebraLight SC600 Mk lll to be a premium light with cutting edge technology; Their market is for those who know enough to know the difference between marketing and innovation.



We are talking about the battery issue in particular here man. That has to do with marketing nor innovation. People have a right to criticize it when other lights that cost 1/3 as much dont have this issue. Zebralight makes some great lights and are always near the top in performance and efficiency but, they could definitely improve in the product testing and quality control side of things. I cant remember the last new ZL product release that didnt at least have some kind of teething issues. You just dont see this many issues with many other companies near as often. Even companies that sell their lights for half or one third the price.


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> Did you read my point about the costly ti custom light that costs twice as much as a zebralight and has rattle?



I didnt say that this type of thing never happens. But, I have many lights that cost far less then Zebralights that dont have this issue. And, this is only one issue. As I said in my last post, ZL is notorious for having issues with the first batches of their new products. Everything from battery rattle issues to firmware issues to waterproofing issues. I just think they could do a better job with new product testing and new product QC. Their products are awesome and this is just my constructive criticism. This is an area I think they can get better.


----------



## gunga

Yes. That is true. I've seen lots of issues here and there in their first runs.

Edit: they have improved. The issues are a lot more minor on the latest releases.


----------



## snowlover91

They have occasional issues like the battery rattle or the SC5 "purple eye" issue but for the most part they've improved significantly in their QC. I remember reading threads from a few years ago where the lights would have all sorts of issues like switch problems, tint consistency, lights not turning on, etc. They still have an occasional issue with release but nothing nearly as bad as what they used to have. Tint can still sometimes be random but it's not like it was where dozens of users would report problems. Also so far with the MK3 HI and SC63 lights I've not seen any issues. 

After carrying around my SC63w for a day now I have to say the biggest feature I like about it is how it feels in the hand. Much more natural than the "ribbing" of the SC62w and it clips to my pocket much easier while staying secure. I'm not selling my SC62w yet but I'm considering it so I can buy another SC63w for backpacking.


----------



## Fireclaw18

snowlover91 said:


> They have occasional issues like the battery rattle or the SC5 "purple eye" issue but for the most part they've improved significantly in their QC...



I've actually experienced somewhat the opposite. However, I do tend to preorder first-run Zebras, which have their quirks. My Zebra history is:

*SC51* - no issues

*SC600* (preorder Mark I) - defective switch. Merely touching the rubber boot without depressing it would sometimes cause the light to turn on. Known issue reportedly causing by manufacturing error during switch assembly. Returned for warranty repair. Took 2 months, but light now works flawlessly.

*SC80* - H2 doesn't work. Light will briefly flash and then go out if cycled to H2. However, all low and medium modes and H1 all work fine.
*
SC52w*(preorder mark I) - doesn't stay on in turbo mode longer than 30 seconds or so regardless of which battery is used.. If battery is slightly depleted that time decreases.

*SC62d* - no issues

*SC62w* (preorder) - Initially worked great. However, after 5 days of use it wouldn't stay on in turbo mode longer than 2 seconds regardless of what battery was used. Returned and replaced. Replacement works better but still won't stay in turbo more than 30 seconds or so (less on a depleted battery)

*SC32w* (preorder) - doesn't stay on in turbo mode longer than 5 seconds or so regardless which battery is used. If battery is slightly depleted that time decreases. I need to return this for warranty repair.

*SC5w*(preorder) - worked great for 1 month, but then broke. Low and Medium modes work fine, but all high modes are broken. Currently H1 is lower than M1, and H2 is lower than L1. I need to return this for warranty repair.

* * *

Looking at my collection of Zebras, 75% of them had or have serious issues - an abysmal record for a premium light. And none of my lights are heavily used either. They only saw very light use. 

This doesn't stop me from buying them though because I love their design. However, I'm not sure I'd trust my Zebras for even casual EDC use.


----------



## gunga

Wow! That's terrible!? Geez. You are patient and persistent.


----------



## Fireclaw18

I wonder how hard it would be to disassemble an SC600 Mark III and turn it into a triple.

Too bad I don't have any Quad copper MPCBs. I think it would make a nice quad host.

I modded a couple DQG 18650 Tiny IIIs into triples. I'm pretty confident I could do it as long as I can get the innards out without breaking the lens. Should be plenty of room inside. Given the superior heatsinking and mass of the SC600, I suspect this would allow me more runtime at 3000 lumens than the 10 seconds or so I get out of my DQG.


----------



## Screwball69N

fnsooner said:


> Actually, it is the red Samyo that is the correct battery to buy. As far as how long the free shipping takes, usually two or three days. These lights have started shipping. Some people in the US who pre-ordered on 01/01 have had theirs delivered in the last few days but they sold out fast and everything is in backorder status. I believe it was a first come first serve thing and some who ordered on 01/01 didn’t make the cut. Reports are that another shipment will go out by the end of February. No telling how many will ship.
> 
> BTW, I am very much looking forward to your impressions of the HI model. From reading your posts, I have noticed that you have quite a few flashlights with the High Intensity LED. I only own one flashlight with the HI LED and it is an XP-L in a 2.5 inch bezel and a 2 inch deep reflector and wasn’t a very good indicator of what the ZL HI would do.
> 
> I received the SC600w HI MK III a couple of days ago. I would call it a beast of a light and I really like it but I am not sure I would call it a thrower. It would be nice to hear from your perspective and comparisons to other High Intensity variants that you own.



you should have ordered the Orbtronic's 3500 flat top 18650 I've been trying to tell everyone it's a lot better fit it ends the rattle I've started buying these betteries overs a year ago and a no questions asked return or trade out and just putting this out there I'm already having issues with the RED SAMYO 3500 and there not even 2 months old


----------



## Screwball69N

newbie66 said:


> Well the rattle is only when I shake it a bit hard. When tail cap fully tightened it still functions well enough. Sending it back is quite a hassle so I will just tolerate it.





i so agree sending anything back to ZL is a huge hassle for the prices there asking they should ship new one first and then you send the defect one even if it meant puting a hold on my credit card I wouldn't have an issue


----------



## snowlover91

Screwball69N said:


> you should have ordered the Orbtronic's 3500 flat top 18650 I've been trying to tell everyone it's a lot better fit it ends the rattle I've started buying these betteries overs a year ago and a no questions asked return or trade out and just putting this out there I'm already having issues with the RED SAMYO 3500 and there not even 2 months old



The Orbotronic 3500mah flat top are the Sanyo 18650ga cells rewrapped so it's no different except with a wrapper saying orbotronic on it. I have no issues in my MK3 HI or SC63w with battery rattle. In fact the pressure of the pogo pins is so strong that it put a small dent in the positive terminal of my 18650ga cell lol so contact pressure definitely isn't an issue.


----------



## Screwball69N

snowlover91 said:


> The Orbotronic 3500mah flat top are the Sanyo 18650ga cells rewrapped so it's no different except with a wrapper saying orbotronic on it. I have no issues in my MK3 HI or SC63w with battery rattle. In fact the pressure of the pogo pins is so strong that it put a small dent in the positive terminal of my 18650ga cell lol so contact pressure definitely isn't an issue.



i agree with everything you just said same indents and all and I've done the research already they supposed to be the same battery with different rapings but but ZL will not back there battery's they send in the lights


----------



## sticktodrum

At which point, the shrink wrap on the battery is a fitting solution.


----------



## Screwball69N

sticktodrum said:


> At which point, the shrink wrap on the battery is a fitting solution.



you got it


----------



## markr6

The shrink wrap is great. I worry my SC600 III isn't selling since I posted negative comments about rattling. But that's only with a bare cell. The wrap definitely solves that.


----------



## recDNA

snowlover91 said:


> As promised a few MK3 HI beam shots compared with my best thrower, a P60 with Nichia pushing 400-450 lumens from Mountain Electronics. I don't own any lights designed as a true thrower so probably not the best comparison but since a lot of people are familiar with the P60 drop ins and the Nichia emitter maybe it will give a good idea.
> 
> P60 with Nichia on left, MK3 HI on right. Both are on similar output levels but not exact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MK3 HI by itself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XHP35 HI emitter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MK3 HI beside SC63w


That's great but why not max on both lights? I'm guessing the p60 is maybe 8k cd.


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> The shrink wrap is great. I worry my SC600 III isn't selling since I posted negative comments about rattling. But that's only with a bare cell. The wrap definitely solves that.



PM sent


----------



## snowlover91

Rec, the Nichia module was on max which is about 450 lumens, it's a drop in from mountain electronics and it has a nice tight hotspot. The MK3 HI was on its 330 lumen setting which was about as close as I could get them. The P60 has a tighter hotspot but it's about 1/3 the lumen output so I think the MK3 HI would outthrow it. I tried the MK3 HI outside and it lit up the top of 75-100 foot trees with no problems and a nice defined hotspot.


----------



## recDNA

100 yards is the most I would need but that may be too much to ask of a light with a small head and pebbled reflector.


----------



## newbie66

Screwball69N said:


> i so agree sending anything back to ZL is a huge hassle for the prices there asking they should ship new one first and then you send the defect one even if it meant puting a hold on my credit card I wouldn't have an issue



So far the issue is minor so I don't need to send it back. I also can't part with my SC5 even if its just a few days. Need to hold and see it daily.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> 100 yards is the most I would need but that may be too much to ask of a light with a small head and pebbled reflector.



I think it could do 100 yards but I'll try to test it out one day this week when it warms up and see how it does.


----------



## BigBoy

Received my MK3 HI several days ago. The beam has a tighter spot than the MK2 cool that I have. Overall output feels like it doubled over the MK2. The tint is excellent, and the beam quality is improved. I am amazed at what Zebralight has achieved in this little light. It's the only 18650 light that I want to own. I will probably only use the two high output levels as the medium and low levels are to low for me.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> 100 yards is the most I would need but that may be too much to ask of a light with a small head and pebbled reflector.



Also I will say that the tint and beam quality of this XHP35 HI used is excellent and better than expected. It's on the warmer side around 4400k or so. I have a few XP-L and XP-L HI lights and the tint quality is a little better, imo. Once I get a chance to test it outside I'll report back on what I find.


----------



## markr6

BigBoy said:


> Received my MK3 HI several days ago. The beam has a tighter spot than the MK2 cool that I have. Overall output feels like it doubled over the MK2. The tint is excellent, and the beam quality is improved. I am amazed at what Zebralight has achieved in this little light. It's the only 18650 light that I want to own. I will probably only use the two high output levels as the medium and low levels are to low for me.



Sounds great! I would get one if ZL didn't mention the high CRI 5000K version coming out next. I know they are not comparable in terms of throw, but that 5000K just sounds perfect.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> Sounds great! I would get one if ZL didn't mention the high CRI 5000K version coming out next. I know they are not comparable in terms of throw, but that 5000K just sounds perfect.


It's the HiCRI I want.


----------



## recDNA

snowlover91 said:


> Also I will say that the tint and beam quality of this XHP35 HI used is excellent and better than expected. It's on the warmer side around 4400k or so. I have a few XP-L and XP-L HI lights and the tint quality is a little better, imo. Once I get a chance to test it outside I'll report back on what I find.


Thanks for taking the trouble.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> It's the HiCRI I want.



+1

And, I hope they offer other temps options as well. I find 5000K too cool for a lot of applications. Plus, with emitter variance you could end up with one 5000K+ too and that would be way too cool.


----------



## markr6

I wish the variance would end altogether. Or charge and extra $10 for a cherry-picked CCT. But of course I would never expect them to spend time and effort on that.


----------



## recDNA

HDS does but you wait months for a flashlight.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> HDS does but you wait months for a flashlight.



Yeah that's fine, but more of a custom light anyway. For Zebralight that's producing a higher quantity, I just wish they would add a little extra cost for cherry-picked lights. Say, a narrower range like 4500-4600K. But at that point, it would just make sense to source better LEDs in the first place.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> Yeah that's fine, but more of a custom light anyway. For Zebralight that's producing a higher quantity, I just wish they would add a little extra cost for cherry-picked lights. Say, a narrower range like 4500-4600K. But at that point, it would just make sense to source better LEDs in the first place.


I've only got 2 ZL and both have perfect tint. It's anecdotal but maybe the w models have better tint. Anyway that's another reason to buy from a dealer. If I get a bad tint I send it back to dealer. Manufacturers won't usually accept that as a reason for return. A good dealer will.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I've only got 2 ZL and both have perfect tint. It's anecdotal but maybe the w models have better tint. Anyway that's another reason to buy from a dealer. If I get a bad tint I send it back to dealer. Manufacturers won't usually accept that as a reason for return. A good dealer will.



Ran a quick outdoor test here at my apartment, couldn't do it for long since my neighbors might start wondering where the bright light in the sky was coming from lol. Anyways shined it at a tall 80 foot pine tree that's 75 yards or so from my apartment balcony. It lit it up with ease, I have no doubt this could do the 100 yards you mentioned and probably more. I have a Nitecore SRT5 rated for 6000cd and this MK3 Hi has a hotspot about 1/3 the size and the throw comparisons I've done indicate the MK3 HI is throwing close to twice as far.. I would estimate 12-14cd from the MK3 HI.


----------



## Fireclaw18

I measured my SC63w at 9300 lux today. For comparison, my SC62w measured 7800 lux, and my SC600 (mark 1 cw, with XML1) at 10,100 lux.

For my more detailed list of impressions of this light see the SC63w thread.


----------



## xzel87

Cool discovery on the dark sucks 6p clip being compatible with some mod to tailcap....veru much like the mk3HI but really can't afford it at the moment.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> I've only got 2 ZL and both have perfect tint. It's anecdotal but maybe the w models have better tint. Anyway that's another reason to buy from a dealer. If I get a bad tint I send it back to dealer. Manufacturers won't usually accept that as a reason for return. A good dealer will.



I've returned 2 to Zebralight. No question asked; just send back within 30 days. I'm picky, but still only sent those back because they were HORRIBLE. I feel bad sending stuff back, so I only do it in an extreme circumstance.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> I've returned 2 to Zebralight. No question asked; just send back within 30 days. I'm picky, but still only sent those back because they were HORRIBLE. I feel bad sending stuff back, so I only do it in an extreme circumstance.


I agree but if I purchase a model especially for tint like the w models any hint of green and back it goes.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> I agree but if I purchase a model especially for tint like the w models any hint of green and back it goes.



Mine was so green you would have thought it had a green filter over the lens. I can't seem to find the photo from an old thread. I think it was an SC52w.


----------



## sticktodrum

Yeah the 52w was an unfortunate model with a sketchy tint lottery. Getting them from a dealer was the best skit then, and I still prefer to go that way.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> Mine was so green you would have thought it had a green filter over the lens. I can't seem to find the photo from an old thread. I think it was an SC52w.


Was it still green with li ion? I find some led look green if underpowered.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> Was it still green with li ion? I find some led look green if underpowered.



Yeah it was green on any mode; 14500 was all I ever used. Luckily I checked about a dozen at a local dealer and found a good one. I haven't seen anything that bad since.

My SC600w III and SC600 III were both nice tints. But still, the 5700 was a bit too cool/blue but only on anything but high. But I would definitely deal with it if I had no option. And the 4500K was warmer than I wanted, but again not that bad. Same with my SC63w.

Clearly I'm just dying to get one of those 5000K SC600Fd III Plus


----------



## recDNA

Aren't we all? Maybe this summer.


----------



## Tachead

See I have the H600Fd MKIII and find 5000K to be too cool for many uses. I would rather see a high CRI between 4300 and 4600K myself. Even 4000K is quite nice for headlamp use outdoor or late at night really, its just more soothing and easy on the eyes. 5000K is good when its daytime though and you need some extra light. Or when coming from florescent lighting into a dark room maybe. But, for outdoor night use like camping or hiking 5000K is just too cool imo. Try using a 5000k after walking away from a campfire and you will see what I mean. Its quite harsh and seems like a CW light after that.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Moonlight is around 4000k. Millions of years of evolution, so it must be for a reason.


----------



## newbie66

Is the SC600 mkIII tint similar to the HI model?


----------



## seantik

BigBoy said:


> Received my MK3 HI several days ago. The beam has a tighter spot than the MK2 cool that I have. Overall output feels like it doubled over the MK2. The tint is excellent, and the beam quality is improved. I am amazed at what Zebralight has achieved in this little light. It's the only 18650 light that I want to own. I will probably only use the two high output levels as the medium and low levels are to low for me.



Hi guys

Fist post on this forum...

Looking forward to receiving my sc600w HI as well (just ordered yesterday). People write a lot about max lm - how about the minimum lm?

I need the low modes in order to preserve my night vision. How does it compare to the regular mkiii and mkii?

P.s No pictures required just an analytical judgement based on measured lm ☺


----------



## markr6

newbie66 said:


> Is the SC600 mkIII tint similar to the HI model?



I've been wondering about this too. They are both 'w' models, so the same 4500K on paper. But still, I would like to know if they actually look the same.


----------



## newbie66

markr6 said:


> I've been wondering about this too. They are both 'w' models, so the same 4500K on paper. But still, I would like to know if they actually look the same.



I'm hoping the HI will be cooler. Like you, I prefer neutral tints around 5000k too. Seems the best all rounder when it comes to bringing out the colours.


----------



## markr6

My Eagletac T25C2 HI is a "cool white" but in reality it's greenish-yellow and warm. I don't think it was simply a dedomed LED either, so I always question the CCT of HI LEDs.


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> I've been wondering about this too. They are both 'w' models, so the same 4500K on paper. But still, I would like to know if they actually look the same.



Remember guys there is always some variation in emitters. The flux, chromaticity, CRI, and CCT varies within a certain range even within the same batch of emitters. So one persons light might not be the same as the one you get.


----------



## newbie66

markr6 said:


> My Eagletac T25C2 HI is a "cool white" but in reality it's greenish-yellow and warm. I don't think it was simply a dedomed LED either, so I always question the CCT of HI LEDs.



I'm guess if an led is dedomed one can assume that it is going to be warm regardless of what the specs say.


----------



## markr6

Tachead said:


> Remember guys there is always some variation in emitters. The flux, chromaticity, CRI, and CCT varies within a certain range even within the same batch of emitters. So one persons light might not be the same as the one you get.



You don't have to tell me that  It drives me crazy. I think what we're wondering is if there is a strong bias one way or the other with the HI. I'm guessing it's just 4500K, plus the usual variance.


----------



## uofaengr

I've a ToolVN that has an XP-L HI 4000K nominal, but it's spot on 4400K. One of the best tints I have, fortunately.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> You don't have to tell me that  It drives me crazy. I think what we're wondering is if there is a strong bias one way or the other with the HI. I'm guessing it's just 4500K, plus the usual variance.



My MK3 HI is on the warmer side probably 4400-4500k if I had to guess, definitely my warmest light but it's actually becoming my preferred tint. I'll try to get some beamshots to represent the tint but it's comparable to a Nichia but warmer.


----------



## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> My MK3 HI is on the warmer side probably 4400-4500k if I had to guess, definitely my warmest light but it's actually becoming my preferred tint. I'll try to get some beamshots to represent the tint but it's comparable to a Nichia but warmer.




Which Nichia/light? They come in all different CCT's as well and have the same variation between emitters.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> Which Nichia/light? They come in all different CCT's as well and have the same variation between emitters.



It's a Nichia 219b from Richard at MtnElectronics  I'm not sure the details beyond that though as they weren't listed but it's 90+ CRI and a very nice golden/tan color.

EDIT- Here is the link to the one I purchased. http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=86&product_id=292


----------



## recDNA

I can stand anything from 3k to 6k but I cannot stand any hint of green tint. I do not mind blue purple or pink but not green nor even a yellow shade approaching green.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> My MK3 HI is on the warmer side probably 4400-4500k if I had to guess, definitely my warmest light but it's actually becoming my preferred tint. I'll try to get some beamshots to represent the tint but it's comparable to a Nichia but warmer.



That sounds like my SC63w. But unfortunately not very close at all to my Nichia 219B lights.



recDNA said:


> I can stand anything from 3k to 6k but I cannot stand any hint of green tint. I do not mind blue purple or pink but not green nor even a yellow shade approaching green.



I agree completely. My SC600w II is the BEST. Actually, I think most would find it too rosy or pink, but I think it's great. Right on the edge of neutral/cool.


----------



## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> It's a Nichia 219b from Richard at MtnElectronics  I'm not sure the details beyond that though as they weren't listed but it's 90+ CRI and a very nice golden/tan color.
> 
> EDIT- Here is the link to the one I purchased. http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=86&product_id=292



It says 4500K for the Nichia option. Thanks.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> It says 4500K for the Nichia option. Thanks.



No problem! Yeah my MK3 HI is slightly warmer than my Nichia which is why I'm thinking around 4400k but it might be a little warmer too. I'll try to get a comparison pic between my Nichia and MK3 HI it might be helpful. The hardest part is getting a camera to accurately depict what we see lol.


----------



## markr6

SC600w III HI update!!

_2/18/2016 'Programmable PID thermal regulation temperature target' released to the public

_Not real sure what they mean. The product page now says "Programmable PID thermal regulation temperature target value (existed in all lights with the PID thermal regulation feature since late 2012)"


----------



## eraursls1984

recDNA said:


> I can stand anything from 3k to 6k but I cannot stand any hint of green tint. I do not mind blue purple or pink but not green nor even a yellow shade approaching green.


I like 3k-5k but can't stand green, blue or purple. My favorite is a slight magenta/pink hue, and a little yellow is okay as long as it's not to close to green. I just hope all these new lights have less tint ranges than previous. So far all of these sound very pleasing based on everyone's descriptions.


----------



## snowlover91

Hmmm maybe they're going to let us program more light output levels??


----------



## waxing twilight

markr6 said:


> SC600w III HI update!!
> 
> _2/18/2016 'Programmable PID thermal regulation temperature target' released to the public
> 
> _Not real sure what they mean. The product page now says "Programmable PID thermal regulation temperature target value (existed in all lights with the PID thermal regulation feature since late 2012)"



Wow! That is cool news! I wonder how you program the target temperature. Hopefully it is programmable by clicks in the UI and not only if you send it to ZL for programming.


----------



## markr6

waxing twilight said:


> Wow! That is cool news! I wonder how you program the target temperature. Hopefully it is programmable by clicks in the UI and not only if you send it to ZL for programming.




PID Thermal Regulation Temperature Programming



Turn off the light from H1 and then turn back on to H1
Press and hold to cycle from Low to High 6 times
On the 7th (or more) cycle, release the switch
when High to add 1 degree C (up to 5 max)
when Med to revert back to the factory default
when Low to subtract 1 degree C (up to 5 max)


----------



## psychbeat

markr6 said:


> PID Thermal Regulation Temperature Programming
> 
> 
> 
> Turn off the light from H1 and then turn back on to H1
> Press and hold to cycle from Low to High 6 times
> On the 7th (or more) cycle, release the switch
> when High to add 1 degree C (up to 5 max)
> when Med to revert back to the factory default
> when Low to subtract 1 degree C (up to 5 max)



Whoa - that's AWESOME. 

I know how I'd set mine......

Thanks for the info

I'm not sure if it's doing anything on my h600w MKII or if u need to do the entire cycle 5 times from the beginning - releasing each time on hi at the end. 

I'll keep trying.

EDIT:

I'm pretty sure I maxed mine out. 
It gets pretty hot on a fresh 20r cell


----------



## markr6

You release on the 7th cycle (or more). So I recommend doing it on the 8th just to be safe. Getting freakin HOT! I'm setting back to factory.

Also, Vinh just notified me that he *will not be modding* Zebralights. NOOOO!!!! Oh well, back to paying the tint lottery.


----------



## Tachead

psychbeat said:


> Whoa - that's AWESOME.
> 
> I know how I'd set mine......
> 
> Thanks for the info
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if it's doing anything on my h600w MKII or if u need to do the entire cycle 5 times from the beginning - releasing each time on hi at the end.
> 
> I'll keep trying.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> I'm pretty sure I maxed mine out.
> It gets pretty hot on a fresh 20r cell



Be careful and remember that higher temps reduce the emitter life. On the newest models ZL set the factory setting lower but, on older models like yours it is set higher so it will get really hot on max.


----------



## markr6

Just a thought...when PID came out ZL always said "PID, approx xx hrs" for H1 mode. So I'm assuming this was this based on the factory setting since there were no programming instructions for years? Anything else would be quite deceitful.


----------



## acefspade

markr6 said:


> PID Thermal Regulation Temperature Programming
> 
> 
> 
> Turn off the light from H1 and then turn back on to H1
> Press and hold to cycle from Low to High 6 times
> On the 7th (or more) cycle, release the switch
> when High to add 1 degree C (up to 5 max)
> when Med to revert back to the factory default
> when Low to subtract 1 degree C (up to 5 max)



So if it subtract 5 degrees C, the light will step down faster in H1 and also the light will not be as hot?


----------



## bodhran

It was mentioned that with the new models, the temp. was set lower. I have noticed that my sc600 mk3 does seem to be cooler than previous versions. Would it be safe to set the PID levels higher on this model?


----------



## scs

How have you guys been using the two highest modes on your 600 series lights, MK 2s and now the MK 3s?
Do any of you feel that the short duration for which the lights can sustain those 2 levels makes the 2 levels less useful or not useful at all?


----------



## psychbeat

Tachead said:


> Be careful and remember that higher temps reduce the emitter life. On the newest models ZL set the factory setting lower but, on older models like yours it is set higher so it will get really hot on max.



Appreciate the concern..
Compared to my quads and direct drive lights this 5degree change is pretty mellow. 
Emitters usually desolder themselves from the board before burning unless the voltage is too high IME or at least tint shift blue for some warning. What I'd be more worried about is the driver but I PROMISE not to write a whiny post if something fails. 

Overall I don't see this making too large of an impact on perceived brightness outdoors (which is where this light is used 99% of the time). 
Nice to be able to adjust tho if u end up with an aggressive PID due to tolerances shifting with components light to light.


----------



## markr6

scs said:


> How have you guys been using the two highest modes on your 600 series lights, MK 2s and now the MK 3s?
> Do any of you feel that the short duration for which the lights can sustain those 2 levels makes the 2 levels less useful or not useful at all?



I found it made them MORE useful. I never really liked using the H1 mode on any Zebralights due to the heat and battery draining. So I always used H2a or H2b, whatever I felt like programming. But now that we can actually run them a little cooler and lower, the battery won't drain so quick.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> PID Thermal Regulation Temperature Programming
> 
> 
> 
> Turn off the light from H1 and then turn back on to H1
> Press and hold to cycle from Low to High 6 times
> On the 7th (or more) cycle, release the switch
> when High to add 1 degree C (up to 5 max)
> when Med to revert back to the factory default
> when Low to subtract 1 degree C (up to 5 max)


I'd go for 5 degrees lower but honestly I wish it were 10 unless it is 5 degrees C


----------



## keithhr

I have been with the cpf almost since its inception, I joined in 2003 when a 60 lumem surefire light was held with some reverence. Fast forward to the days
of the 4/18650 tiny monsters of the world and it's still all about an edc light. The only flashlight that counts is the one you have with you. Most of the lights
have a number of failings, poor switches (80%) unable to find switch in the dark and low and behold I received my zebralight 
ZLSC600 22 SC600 Mk II L2 18650 XM-L2 and its switch is the best I've ever seen, can't be accidentally turned on because it is well recessed. A repoort on funtion
will come later, but my first impressions are wow, I love this light.


----------



## waxing twilight

markr6 said:


> PID Thermal Regulation Temperature Programming
> 
> 
> 
> Turn off the light from H1 and then turn back on to H1
> Press and hold to cycle from Low to High 6 times
> On the 7th (or more) cycle, release the switch
> when High to add 1 degree C (up to 5 max)
> when Med to revert back to the factory default
> when Low to subtract 1 degree C (up to 5 max)



Cool, thanks! I was just looking to see if there were instructions posted anywhere, lol.


----------



## scs

markr6 said:


> I found it made them MORE useful. I never really liked using the H1 mode on any Zebralights due to the heat and battery draining. So I always used H2a or H2b, whatever I felt like programming. But now that we can actually run them a little cooler and lower, the battery won't drain so quick.



This is what I'm getting at: if more often than not the PID quickly chokes down the max output to a lower level that can be sustained anyways, then that lower level is effectively the max output of the light. What's the point of turning on the light on max only to have PID quickly ramp it down to a lower mode? How's that any different from starting off at THAT lower mode to begin with?

Hence my question: is there any utility to having max output for such short durations (I'm referring to max output per specs, not max output possible as determined by the PID)?

I'm not directing this question to the current topic of the user programmable PID, but to the way the lights have been marketed and perceived by their recent owners.


----------



## recDNA

Ok, just did it in sc32w. I think it is an elaborate joke. How do we know it worked? 
Anyway I will do my 62w next. Trying to take PID down 5 degrees in each. I have never seen either step. Down.


----------



## psychbeat

scs said:


> This is what I'm getting at: if more often than not the PID quickly chokes down the max output to a lower level that can be sustained anyways, then that lower level is effectively the max output of the light. What's the point of turning on the light on max only to have PID quickly ramp it down to a lower mode? How's that any different from starting off at THAT lower mode to begin with?
> 
> Hence my question: is there any utility to having max output for such short durations (I'm referring to max output per specs, not max output possible as determined by the PID)?
> 
> I'm not directing this question to the current topic of the user programmable PID, but to the way the lights have been marketed and perceived by their recent owners.



Yah there TOTALLY is use for short bursts. 
When you are out in a remote area at say a trail junction and not sure which turn to take, a short burst of MAXIMUM light can help show you where to go. 

The nice thing about PID is it's pretty smooth when if ramps down rather than a timed thing and also that it doesn't ramp down unless it's getting hot. 

I use my lights outside where it's usually pretty cool so it would suck to be limited by a step down when not needed. 
Stepdowns can be dangerous and disorienting as well when they are timed and noticeable - I know from experience. 
Same with total cutoff by a protected cell.


----------



## scout24

At least the PID that Zebra uses has as many levels as it does, and the stepdowns are so slight... Stepdown in some capacity is a necessary evil with almost no thermal mass. Oveready's new V5 boards step down with thermal management, Data's 007 and Tri-v do the same. To say nothing of the hit that runtime takes at the higher drive levels! Old saying: Arithmatic is not an opinion. Neither is physics. All that heat has to go somewhere, or be reduced to safe levels. I'm just glad the stepdown technology is as good as it is, not the timer based control that was used for "turbo" modes not long ago.


----------



## psychbeat

scout24 said:


> At least the PID that Zebra uses has as many levels as it does, and the stepdowns are so slight... Stepdown in some capacity is a necessary evil with almost no thermal mass. Oveready's new V5 boards step down with thermal management, Data's 007 and Tri-v do the same. To say nothing of the hit that runtime takes at the higher drive levels! Old saying: Arithmatic is not an opinion. Neither is physics. All that heat has to go somewhere, or be reduced to safe levels. I'm just glad the stepdown technology is as good as it is, not the timer based control that was used for "turbo" modes not long ago.



Absolutely!


----------



## fnsooner

scs said:


> This is what I'm getting at: if more often than not the PID quickly chokes down the max output to a lower level that can be sustained anyways, then that lower level is effectively the max output of the light. What's the point of turning on the light on max only to have PID quickly ramp it down to a lower mode? How's that any different from starting off at THAT lower mode to begin with?
> 
> Hence my question: is there any utility to having max output for such short durations (I'm referring to max output per specs, not max output possible as determined by the PID)?
> 
> I'm not directing this question to the current topic of the user programmable PID, but to the way the lights have been marketed and perceived by their recent owners.





It depends on how you use your flashlight. Ninety percent of the times that I turn my flashlight on, it is used for less than twenty seconds. I get 100% maximum output most of the time. When I do need it on for extended periods of time, I know that I get the max output that can be achieved without my flashlight overheating.

If you are someone that turns their flashlight on and leaves it on for extended periods of time mostly, then you get limited use of maximum output.


----------



## Tachead

bodhran said:


> It was mentioned that with the new models, the temp. was set lower. I have noticed that my sc600 mk3 does seem to be cooler than previous versions. Would it be safe to set the PID levels higher on this model?




Yes.

Zebralight said this also...

Subject: PID Thermal Regulation Programming

There won't be any issues with the emitter or any other electronic components in the light because ALL of them are rated at 85C or higher. We set the limit of 5 degree C max so that even with our highest factory default settings (52C), you'll still be below the working temp range of a li-ion battery (typically 60C in 2012 when the S6330 was designed). 

Sincerely,

ZebraLight, Inc.


----------



## Tachead

acefspade said:


> So if it subtract 5 degrees C, the light will step down faster in H1 and also the light will not be as hot?




Correct


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> I'd go for 5 degrees lower but honestly I wish it were 10 unless it is 5 degrees C




It is 5C.


----------



## Tachead

scs said:


> This is what I'm getting at: if more often than not the PID quickly chokes down the max output to a lower level that can be sustained anyways, then that lower level is effectively the max output of the light. What's the point of turning on the light on max only to have PID quickly ramp it down to a lower mode? How's that any different from starting off at THAT lower mode to begin with?
> 
> Hence my question: is there any utility to having max output for such short durations (I'm referring to max output per specs, not max output possible as determined by the PID)?
> 
> I'm not directing this question to the current topic of the user programmable PID, but to the way the lights have been marketed and perceived by their recent owners.



All manufactures lights do this on Turbo. Some use a timed step down though. Thermal regulation(PID) allows the light to run at its highest safe output in real time. For instance, if it throttles it back and then you start biking and air flow cools the light it will ramp back up in real time to always allow the highest output possible. Also, I find even when it ramps it down it is still slightly higher then the lower settings.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> Ok, just did it in sc32w. I think it is an elaborate joke. *How do we know it worked? *
> Anyway I will do my 62w next. Trying to take PID down 5 degrees in each. I have never seen either step. Down.



Test the max head temperature after a few minutes then allow it to cool a bit, set PID and test temp again. It works, my H600Fd MKIII is running cooler now.


----------



## recDNA

Tachead said:


> Test the max head temperature after a few minutes then allow it to cool a bit, set PID and test temp again. It works, my H600Fd MKIII is running cooler now.


I don't have the equipment to do that and do not trust my ability to detect a 5 degree difference with my skin. I don't think anyone does. Now if I had TWO sc62w and lowered one and raised the other than tested simultaneously I would trust my ability to discern the difference.

Would you believe there isn't one review of sc32 let alone sc32w by selfbuilt or anybody else who measures data like that. I did read one theory that sc32w could not get hot enough to step down. I can tell you it gets much hotter with primary and SHOULD step down.

As far as timing to first step down from cold as I have said I have never ever seen either sc32w nor sc62w step down. Maybe it happens but I don't see it and on H1 both of them get too hot for me to hold. The sc32w does not get that hot with li ion.


----------



## psychbeat

recDNA said:


> I don't have the equipment to do that and do not trust my ability to detect a 5 degree difference with my skin. I don't think anyone does. Now if I had TWO sc62w and lowered one and raised the other than tested simultaneously I would trust my ability to discern the difference.
> 
> Would you believe there isn't one review of sc32 let alone sc32w by selfbuilt or anybody else who measures data like that. I did read one theory that sc32w could not get hot enough to step down. I can tell you it gets much hotter with primary and SHOULD step down.



The difference is obvious from the min to the max (on my h600w MKII)
I can see the PID stepping down on -5 and the light is noticeably warmer on +5 setting.


----------



## recDNA

2 possibilities. You have better ability to detect heat and small changes in light intensity. Probably so since I am no spring chicken. The other is my lights are too old. Although I bought them in 2014 I bought from dealer so who knows how long he had them.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> I don't have the equipment to do that and do not trust my ability to detect a 5 degree difference with my skin. I don't think anyone does. Now if I had TWO sc62w and lowered one and raised the other than tested simultaneously I would trust my ability to discern the difference.
> 
> Would you believe there isn't one review of sc32 let alone sc32w by selfbuilt or anybody else who measures data like that. I did read one theory that sc32w could not get hot enough to step down. I can tell you it gets much hotter with primary and SHOULD step down.
> 
> As far as timing to first step down from cold as I have said I have never ever seen either sc32w nor sc62w step down. Maybe it happens but I don't see it and on H1 both of them get too hot for me to hold. The sc32w does not get that hot with li ion.



You should get yourself an digital infrared thermometer they are quite useful and can be found for fairly cheap these days.

It wont hurt the light even at the max PID setting. The PID will lower as needed to keep it below the factory setting(52C). Lower it to its lowest setting and that will help a bit if you find it uncomfortable. 

The stepdowns are incremental and hard to see. It slowly ramps down over time to make it less noticeable to the user. So, you may be missing it if you dont watch carefully or record it and watch it.


----------



## psychbeat

recDNA said:


> 2 possibilities. You have better ability to detect heat and small changes in light intensity. Probably so since I am no spring chicken. The other is my lights are too old. Although I bought them in 2014 I bought from dealer so who knows how long he had them.



I'm also running a 20r 18650 and yer running primaries right?

It's VERY noticeable heat-wise on my light going from min to max - the PID kicking in is fairly subtle but perceivable against a wall.


----------



## scout24

I'm certain part of the reason Zebralight sets the PID where they do is to make runtime targets. You folks can play with the settings all you want, mine are bright enough, long enough, for my uses.  Any mention about warranty service if the settings have been changed???


----------



## psychbeat

scout24 said:


> I'm certain part of the reason Zebralight sets the PID where they do is to make runtime targets. You folks can play with the settings all you want, mine are bright enough, long enough, for my uses.  Any mention about warranty service if the settings have been changed???



Not that I've heard but there is a quote in one of the other threads from ZL saying it won't hurt anything which I believe as the heat isn't all that crazy compared to my custom lights and I torture those constantly without many failures (knock on wood)

If mine breaks I'll just rant on all 30 of the ZL threads about how their lights suck and break  



I'll be careful then...

You'll be DEAD.


----------



## scout24

psychbeat said:


> If mine breaks I'll just rant on all 30 of the ZL threads about how their lights suck and break
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See? Now that's funny...
Click to expand...


----------



## Tachead

psychbeat said:


> Not that I've heard but *there is a quote in one of the other threads from ZL saying it won't hurt anything* which I believe as the heat isn't all that crazy compared to my custom lights and I torture those constantly without many failures (knock on wood)
> 
> If mine breaks I'll just rant on all 30 of the ZL threads about how their lights suck and break
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be careful then...
> 
> You'll be DEAD.



I posted it here too, post #2261:thumbsup:


----------



## Tachead

Has anyone compared the SC600w MKIII and SC63w or SC600 MKIII and SC63 in a light box yet? How do the max outputs(H1) compare? How much more quickly does the PID reduce the output of SC63 vs the SC600 MKIII? Thanks:thumbsup:


----------



## Gej785

Tachead said:


> Has anyone compared the SC600w MKIII and SC63w or SC600 MKIII and SC63 in a light box yet? How do the max outputs(H1) compare? How much more quickly does the PID reduce the output of SC63 vs the SC600 MKIII? Thanks:thumbsup:



I've been waiting for someone to ask this very question. I couldn't wait so I ordered both SC600 MK III and SC63.


----------



## newbie66

Okay so it seems the HI model is quite warm. I can still live with that.

Zebralight allowing "PID Thermal Regulation Temperature Programming"? Interesting...


----------



## recDNA

psychbeat said:


> I'm also running a 20r 18650 and yer running primaries right?
> 
> It's VERY noticeable heat-wise on my light going from min to max - the PID kicking in is fairly subtle but perceivable against a wall.


No, the sc62w is li ion only. I switched from primary to protected icr in sc32w because it gets scary hot really fast with primary. It also draws an more current than the primary is rated for so although I intended to use primary in sc32w I felt compelled to switch to a battery suited to the current draw. With higher voltage icr the current drops down to safe level and it takes much linger to heat up. In some thread somewhere here a poster did some math attempting to prove pid would never kick in in the sc32w with icr. I have no idea if he was right but after dropping pid to 47C according to direction I could not detect pid. I haven't tried yet with my sc62w and probably won't. I don't like running in h1 too long. Has anybody successfully used this method to LOWER PID in sc32w or sc62w?


----------



## recDNA

Tachead said:


> You should get yourself an digital infrared thermometer they are quite useful and can be found for fairly cheap these days.
> 
> It wont hurt the light even at the max PID setting. The PID will lower as needed to keep it below the factory setting(52C). Lower it to its lowest setting and that will help a bit if you find it uncomfortable.
> 
> The stepdowns are incremental and hard to see. It slowly ramps down over time to make it less noticeable to the user. So, you may be missing it if you dont watch carefully or record it and watch it.


Yes I would like an ir thermometer. To measure heat accurately wouldn't you have to precisely measure distance?

BTW, I couldn't care less about toasting the led. I worry more about thermal runaway in battery.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> Yes I would like an ir thermometer. To measure heat accurately wouldn't you have to precisely measure distance?
> 
> BTW, I couldn't care less about toasting the led. I worry more about thermal runaway in battery.



I have 2, they are nice to have. Make sure you shop around and read specs if you get one because the quality, temp range, price and features can vary a lot. No, you dont need to measure distance. The area being read by the ir thermometer gets larger with distance however so it will be less precise the further you are away.


----------



## Tachead

Gej785 said:


> I've been waiting for someone to ask this very question. I couldn't wait so I ordered both SC600 MK III and SC63.




Let us know what you think when you get them:thumbsup:


----------



## snowlover91

For those interested I took a pic with my camera to show the difference in tint/color between a 4500k Nichia 219b emitter from a P60 module and the XHP35 Hi rated for 4400k in the MK3. Ignore the "rings" thats more of a camera artifact and not visible in real life. These pics were taken on a tan wall.

The P60 is on the left and the MK3 on the right. Keep in mind the wall behind them in this pic is a golden tan color.






Now here is a pic of them against a white door in the background.






Last but not least there was a discussion early on about the pogo pins and contact pressure. Since ZL has supposedly fixed the issue now with the pogo pins/battery rattle issue I thought I would post this pic of the Orbotronic 3500mah flat top cell and how firmly the pogo pins grip it. In fact you can see three tiny indents and the whole flat top is pressed in slightly.


----------



## newbie66

Thanks for the pics snowlover91! The HI does look quite warm and that pressed in part is a bit scary too.


----------



## snowlover91

newbie66 said:


> Thanks for the pics snowlover91! The HI does look quite warm and that pressed in part is a bit scary too.



Its not too bad that's as far as its pressed in. Doesn't affect performance at all and the battery definitely won't be rattling!


----------



## uofaengr

I think I'll be leaving my PID settings alone. Although it's something new and neat to make another 10 new threads about, mine is plenty bright enough for my needs as is.


----------



## psychbeat

Some like it hot.
(Like me)


----------



## sticktodrum

So...seems USPS lost my Mk3... Great.


----------



## POI

acefspade said:


> So if it subtract 5 degrees C, the light will step down faster in H1 and also the light will not be as hot?



If that is right, have some one already checked it by measure?


----------



## Aldiggi

Cmon ZL I want my MKIII!!!


----------



## markr6

scs said:


> What's the point of turning on the light on max only to have PID quickly ramp it down to a lower mode? How's that any different from starting off at THAT lower mode to begin with?



These guys pretty much answered it for me.



psychbeat said:


> Yah there TOTALLY is use for short bursts.
> When you are out in a remote area at say a trail junction and not sure which turn to take, a short burst of MAXIMUM light can help show you where to go.



Yup!



scout24 said:


> At least the PID that Zebra uses has as many levels as it does, and the stepdowns are so slight...I'm just glad the stepdown technology is as good as it is, not the timer based control that was used for "turbo" modes not long ago.



Yup!



fnsooner said:


> It depends on how you use your flashlight. Ninety percent of the times that I turn my flashlight on, it is used for less than twenty seconds. I get 100% maximum output most of the time. When I do need it on for extended periods of time, I know that I get the max output that can be achieved without my flashlight overheating.



Yup!



Tachead said:


> All manufactures lights do this on Turbo. Some use a timed step down though. Thermal regulation(PID) allows the light to run at its highest safe output in real time. For instance, if it throttles it back and then you start biking and air flow cools the light it will ramp back up in real time to always allow the highest output possible. Also, I find even when it ramps it down it is still slightly higher then the lower settings.



Yup!

BTW, don't you dare ask Vinh fans "the point" of lights that are only max for the first 20 seconds


----------



## uofaengr

psychbeat said:


> Some like it hot.
> (Like me)


I'd say my 62w gets plenty hot as is. Not BLF A6 turbo scorching hot, but enough where if you pinched towards the lens a little tightly it can get uncomfortable. I'd say the release of this information is suited primarily for those who can't take the heat of the 62 or want some of their factory spec'd lumens back on H1 with the 63.


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


>



I have an NCR18650GA like this, but only because I beat it up trying to remove the solder from a button top I was removing. When I swapped batteries last night and put that one in my SC63w, it would not work at all. So hopefully yours doesn't get smashed to the point of not working. I'm guessing it would not get any worse.


----------



## Tachead

uofaengr said:


> I think I'll be leaving my PID settings alone. Although it's something new and neat to make another 10 new threads about, *mine is plenty bright enough for my needs as is.*



Changing it will not effect the brightness at all. It simply changes at what temperature the PID kicks in and starts to reduce the brightness. It will change how hot the light gets with sustained use on H1 & H2 as well due to it changing the max allowed temp(lower will make the light run cooler and higher will make it run hotter).


----------



## Tachead

POI said:


> If that is right, have some one already checked it by measure?




Yes


----------



## uofaengr

Tachead said:


> Changing it will not effect the brightness at all. It simply changes at what temperature the PID kicks in and starts to reduce the brightness. It will change how hot the light gets with sustained use on H1 & H2 as well due to it changing the max allowed temp(lower will make the light run cooler and higher will make it run hotter).



How does it not affect brightness? I bump the setpoint up and it's going to stay brighter longer due to the higher temperature threshold. I bump the setpoint down and the brightness will decrease faster due to less of a temperature threshold.


----------



## Tachead

I meant it will not effect the starting brightness(it is fixed). Read my comment again. It only effects how soon the brightness will start to drop down and the brightness(and temp) it will be at when it levels out for the ambient temperature.


----------



## markr6

uofaengr said:


> How does it not affect brightness? I bump the setpoint up and it's going to stay brighter longer due to the higher temperature threshold. I bump the setpoint down and the brightness will decrease faster due to less of a temperature threshold.



I think Tachead meant the original brightness will not be changed...1300lm at turn on no matter what. It's just the amount of time at which that output starts to decrease based on setting (15 seconds, 30 seconds, etc)


----------



## uofaengr

Ok didn't know he meant initial brightness. Well I use mine extended periods on H1 a decent bit and don't really want it stepping down faster and the heat isn't too unbearable as is. I guess I'd call it a happy medium.


----------



## fnsooner

sticktodrum said:


> So...seems USPS lost my Mk3... Great.


That's a bummer. What is the story? When was it shipped? Did you get any initial tracking info?


----------



## POI

Tachead said:


> Yes



who checked it and where can I find the results of the test?


----------



## markr6

sticktodrum said:


> So...seems USPS lost my Mk3... Great.



They're cursed! They lost one of mine that I sold to another member...but it found it's way back to me a month later. I shipped it UPS the next time and he got it in 2 days.


----------



## sticktodrum

fnsooner said:


> That's a bummer. What is the story? When was it shipped? Did you get any initial tracking info?





markr6 said:


> They're cursed! They lost one of mine that I sold to another member...but it found it's way back to me a month later. I shipped it UPS the next time and he got it in 2 days.



I ordered it from Illumn, and it was slotted for delivery Tuesday. Monday night it was scanned at a PO not too far from me, and that was the last I heard of it. No more scans, no delivery. I called USPS and they so far have not been able to locate it at the last place it was scanned. 

Oddly enough, I placed another order with Illumn a day later, and that's out for delivery now. 

I'll keep bugging the USPS, and I emailed Illumn to see if they could do anything. But this has happened before and I never did get the package. It stayed in limbo for a year until the tracking number no longer returned results. Should have selected Priority, at least then it would have been insured... The package had the Mk3 and two 18650s in it. Not the most expensive package in the world, but I'm really bummed. Hoping it shows up at all.

So, no fun lumen testing or face scorching for me yet. May have to just order another.


----------



## emarkd

That sucks but the truth is that these sorts of misplaced packages often do show up a few days later. Don't give up yet.


----------



## LightObsession

I prefer the beam of the the MK3 - nice fat spot.


----------



## sidecross

sticktodrum said:


> I ordered it from Illumn, and it was slotted for delivery Tuesday. Monday night it was scanned at a PO not too far from me, and that was the last I heard of it. No more scans, no delivery. I called USPS and they so far have not been able to locate it at the last place it was scanned.
> 
> Oddly enough, I placed another order with Illumn a day later, and that's out for delivery now.
> 
> I'll keep bugging the USPS, and I emailed Illumn to see if they could do anything. But this has happened before and I never did get the package. It stayed in limbo for a year until the tracking number no longer returned results. Should have selected Priority, at least then it would have been insured... The package had the Mk3 and two 18650s in it. Not the most expensive package in the world, but I'm really bummed. Hoping it shows up at all.
> 
> So, no fun lumen testing or face scorching for me yet. May have to just order another.


I have had the same thing happen to me; two orders from Zebralight Inc. mailed Priority Mail got misplaced. It is important to file a 'Non-Delivery' with USPS to expedite finding your package.


----------



## Jose Marin

Just got my sc600 mk3, im reading 2.3amps on turbo by hooking up my multimeter to the negative on battery and the body. Seems kinda low? It looks the same brightness to my sc600 mk3 but that one draws 3.8 amps on turbo. Battery fully charged lg mj1 and panasonic 18650ga. Also makes high pitch noise on turbo with tailcap off but cant hear it when it's back together. Can anyone verify that amperage? Thanks everyone


----------



## scs

sidecross said:


> I have had the same thing happen to me; two orders from Zebralight Inc. mailed Priority Mail got misplaced. It is important to file a 'Non-Delivery' with USPS to expedite finding your package.



Sidecross, please elaborate on the process to file non-delivery with the USPS. Thanks.


----------



## fnsooner

Jose Marin said:


> Just got my sc600 mk3, im reading 2.3amps on turbo by hooking up my multimeter to the negative on battery and the body. Seems kinda low? It looks the same brightness to my sc600 mk3 but that one draws 3.8 amps on turbo. Battery fully charged lg mj1 and panasonic 18650ga. Also makes high pitch noise on turbo with tailcap off but cant hear it when it's back together. Can anyone verify that amperage? Thanks everyone


I am getting around 6A on my SC600 HI MK III.


----------



## scs

fnsooner said:


> I am getting around 6A on my SC600 HI MK III.



Are you using the 10A setting on the dial? Perhaps you DMM is introducing additional resistance...


----------



## fnsooner

scs said:


> Are you using the 10A setting on the dial? Perhaps you DMM is introducing additional resistance...



I think the picture shows that I am using it on the 10A setting. I threw the junk leads away that came with this meter a couple of years ago. The leads are 10A banana plugs with 10AWG wire. I am confident of its readings. It may not be accurate up to 1/100th of an amp but it is close enough for government work. I believe introducing resistance into the circuit would give a lesser reading anyways.


----------



## fnsooner

fnsooner said:


> I am getting around 6A on my SC600 HI MK III.



Here is the same exact test with some lesser leads. Having a good thick set of leads was important five or six years ago when I first started doing tail cap readings. Today, with the high drain batteries and LEDs that can take advantage, it is even more important. You can see the thicker leads at the top.


----------



## scs

fnsooner said:


> I think the picture shows that I am using it on the 10A setting. I threw the junk leads away that came with this meter a couple of years ago. The leads are 10A banana plugs with 10AWG wire. I am confident of its readings. It may not be accurate up to 1/100th of an amp but it is close enough for government work. I believe introducing resistance into the circuit would give a lesser reading anyways.



I was responding to Jose's post, but somehow quoted your post instead. It's happened to me in another thread before. Browser at work must be screwy.


----------



## oeL

markr6 said:


> I think Tachead meant the original brightness will not be changed...1300lm at turn on no matter what. It's just the amount of time at which that output starts to decrease based on setting (15 seconds, 30 seconds, etc)



In addition it will change the amount of light where the PID stabilizes at a specific ambient.
Just did some testing with two equal SC600w: The first minus 5 °, the second plus 5°. Compared both "by eyes" after 15 minutes, the second is remarkable brighter. Head is getting hot, but still stays way cooler than the LED bulbs used for home lightning.
The cell inside is a lot cooler than the head, even at the top of the cell. Since Panasonic rates their NCR18650... usually at "ambient temperature 60 °C", the max rated cell temperature must be over 60 °C (ambient temp plus heat generated by discharging at max rated amp). So in my eyes the 5° plus setting is totally in the safe range. Will let it like this.

Some people here (maybe HJK) are having the equipment to get exact temperature reading, like a IR camera. Maybe we are getting better results soon...


----------



## fnsooner

scs said:


> I was responding to Jose's post, but somehow quoted your post instead. It's happened to me in another thread before. Browser at work must be screwy.


No problem. I took you out of the above post. It allowed me to show the differences in using good leads.


----------



## Jose Marin

fnsooner said:


> Here is the same exact test with some lesser leads. Having a good thick set of leads was important five or six years ago when I first started doing tail cap readings. Today, with the high drain batteries and LEDs that can take advantage, it is even more important. You can see the thicker leads at the top.




Im using a fluke and it only has one setting on the dial for amperage. I will try out making some better leads out of some 10 gauge stranded copper wire, will have to find some pins though like yours. Are those for speakers by chance? What i still dont understand is that even though I'm using high ohm crappy leads, i wouldnt think that my mk2 should be drawing more amperage than my mk3 you think?


----------



## fnsooner

Jose Marin said:


> Im using a fluke and it only has one setting on the dial for amperage. I will try out making some better leads out of some 10 gauge stranded copper wire, will have to find some pins though like yours. Are those for speakers by chance? What i still dont understand is that even though I'm using high ohm crappy leads, i wouldnt think that my mk2 should be drawing more amperage than my mk3 you think?


I got the plugs at Radio Shack about five years ago. Speakers might be what they were mostly used for. I do have some speakers that they fit. 

As far as why your III pulls less than your II, that is strange. Even if your leads can’t get full draw, they shouldn’t show what you have described. Maybe you were checking H2.


----------



## Jose Marin

Definitely both on h1, im thinking since visually they look the same on h1(mk3 just a little brighter) that the crappy leads are throwing something off with electronics inside the mk3 and causing that high pitch whine too. Thanks for your input, headed to radio shack lol


----------



## Lumencrazy

snowlover91 said:


> For those interested I took a pic with my camera to show the difference in tint/color between a 4500k Nichia 219b emitter from a P60 module and the XHP35 Hi rated for 4400k in the MK3. Ignore the "rings" thats more of a camera artifact and not visible in real life. These pics were taken on a tan wall.
> 
> The P60 is on the left and the MK3 on the right. Keep in mind the wall behind them in this pic is a golden tan color.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now here is a pic of them against a white door in the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last but not least there was a discussion early on about the pogo pins and contact pressure. Since ZL has supposedly fixed the issue now with the pogo pins/battery rattle issue I thought I would post this pic of the Orbotronic 3500mah flat top cell and how firmly the pogo pins grip it. In fact you can see three tiny indents and the whole flat top is pressed in slightly.
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE. The tabs rea
> *This may soon become a big issue !!!! I have been using unprotected cells for some time now The positive terminal is not designed to take a constant load: the metal is too thin!!!. With time it just keep collapsing further and further down into the battery. I now have one 18650 Panasonic cell that will not make good contact in the charger (XTAR VP2). This failure is especially bad when using lights, like some of the Armytek models, where the positive terminal is a hard contact. It is not necessary to drop a light face down in order to collapse the tab. Constant pressure over time is sufficient. Even one drop can cause significant damage to the cell . In fact, simply dropping a cell face down into the battery tube (where there is no spring) will begin collapsing the tab. The manufacturers need to take this into account! Companies like Zebralight, Armytek (Wizard, Partner, Prime series) that openly support the use of unprotected cells (having an exposed thin tab, like all of the Panasonic,Sanyo, Sansung and LG brands),yet by their flashlight design damage the cell, need to be put on notice. They neen to resolve this issue before someone ends up with an electrical short in their pocket. I would hate to be in their shoes if something like this ever happened. *


----------



## snowlover91

Lumencrazy, the strange thing I've noticed is my 18650ga cells by Sanyo with the red wrapper are slightly shorter and don't have this issue. The rewrapped Orbtronic 18650 3500mah cells are a tad longer and have this behavior. It's only my MK3 Hi which does this though since the SC63 uses a spring in the tailcap it doesn't have this issue. I'll keep a close eye on that cell.


----------



## fnsooner

Jose Marin said:


> Definitely both on h1, im thinking since visually they look the same on h1(mk3 just a little brighter) that the crappy leads are throwing something off with electronics inside the mk3 and causing that high pitch whine too. Thanks for your input, headed to radio shack lol


No problem. I am curious how things turn out.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> These guys pretty much answered it for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup!
> 
> 
> 
> Yup!
> 
> 
> 
> Yup!
> 
> 
> 
> Yup!
> 
> BTW, don't you dare ask Vinh fans "the point" of lights that are only max for the first 20 seconds


I'm thrilled mine will ramp down sooner after resetting PID (assuming it worked I cannot tell). Remember it is controlled by heat not time. I like it to ramp down at 47 instead of 52. I know I wouldn't leave batteries in a car at 116 F!


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I'm thrilled mine will ramp down sooner after resetting PID (assuming it worked I cannot tell). Remember it is controlled by heat not time. I like it to ramp down at 47 instead of 52. I know I wouldn't leave batteries in a car at 116 F!



It definitely worked on my SC63 I set it to the max and could feel the heat difference and could tell it wasn't stepping down as soon. Maybe a 10-15 second difference if I had to guess. I may turn my MK3 HI to the max since it handles the heat a little more efficiently.


----------



## recDNA

Once turned on max very few will be able to notice the ramp down in real world use not staring at a white wall.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Once turned on max very few will be able to notice the ramp down in real world use not staring at a white wall.



Agreed and that's what I was going for. The ramp down on my SC63w was a little too quick so bumped it up and now it's similar to my SC62w. It gets warm but not too hold for me to hold and in real world use I can't tell when the ramp down occurred whereas I could before adjusting the PID. Thanks for giving us the option ZL :thumbsup:


----------



## markr6

3.39A tailcap on H1 with my SC63w.


----------



## psychbeat

Lumencrazy said:


> snowlover91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *This may soon become a big issue !!!! I have been using unprotected cells for some time now The positive terminal is not designed to take a constant load: the metal is too thin!!!. With time it just keep collapsing further and further down into the battery. I now have one 18650 Panasonic cell that will not make good contact in the charger (XTAR VP2). This failure is especially bad when using lights, like some of the Armytek models, where the positive terminal is a hard contact. It is not necessary to drop a light face down in order to collapse the tab. Constant pressure over time is sufficient. Even one drop can cause significant damage to the cell . In fact, simply dropping a cell face down into the battery tube (where there is no spring) will begin collapsing the tab. The manufacturers need to take this into account! Companies like Zebralight, Armytek (Wizard, Partner, Prime series) that openly support the use of unprotected cells (having an exposed thin tab, like all of the Panasonic,Sanyo, Sansung and LG brands),yet by their flashlight design damage the cell, need to be put on notice. They neen to resolve this issue before someone ends up with an electrical short in their pocket. I would hate to be in their shoes if something like this ever happened. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the pics!
> Tint looks GREAT to me. I've found my 219s to lack the contrast of my more yellowy neutrals outdoors.
> 
> Almost all of my cells are a little dented some a lot.
> Panasonic/Sanyo seem to have thin flat tops but I don't see how it would short by denting inward.
> Many or mine are A ALOT more smushed than the one in yer pic. My lights get used hard n dropped frequently
> 
> Can always add a solder blob to it. Some of mine need to cocked diagonal in the charger to make pos contact for sure.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jose Marin

fnsooner said:


> No problem. I am curious how things turn out.



So it turns out stripping the #10 wire by itself fits snugly in the jack so im going to leave it rigged like this till i find some better pins.

Here's the sc600 mk2 reading about .1 more than the previous test with factory fluke leads. Not much of a change.

Sorry display is dark






Here's the biggest jump with the sc600 mk3 but im not getting what you're getting. Doubled the increase from the factory fluke leads, pretty crazy. The buzzing sound went away during the reading too. 





I tested a few more of my high drain lights and they definitely test higher. Thanks for the tip. Wondering why our nunbers are so far off though. I wont be getting my mk3 hi for a couple more weeks but will definitely compare the 2


----------



## recDNA

Where do I get better shorter leads for my fluke?


----------



## emarkd

recDNA said:


> Where do I get better shorter leads for my fluke?


I made a set for mine. 12 gauge speaker wire and some solder-on banana plugs. Made a huge difference in my readings.


----------



## bodhran

I have the first generation SC600 mk3, the one with the rattle...*s* None of my 18650ga cells purchased through Zebralight appear dented at all. Is the problem with denting possibly related to the fix made in later production?


----------



## fnsooner

Jose Marin said:


> Just got my sc600 mk3, im reading 2.3amps on turbo by hooking up my multimeter to the negative on battery and the body. Seems kinda low? It looks the same brightness to my sc600 mk3 but that one draws 3.8 amps on turbo. Battery fully charged lg mj1 and panasonic 18650ga. Also makes high pitch noise on turbo with tailcap off but cant hear it when it's back together. Can anyone verify that amperage? Thanks everyone





Jose Marin said:


> So it turns out stripping the #10 wire by itself fits snugly in the jack so im going to leave it rigged like this till i find some better pins.
> 
> Here's the sc600 mk2 reading about .1 more than the previous test with factory fluke leads. Not much of a change.
> 
> Sorry display is dark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the biggest jump with the sc600 mk3 but im not getting what you're getting. Got more than a 50% increase from the factory fluke leads, pretty crazy. The buzzing sound went away during the reading too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tested a few more of my high drain lights and they definitely test higher. Thanks for the tip. Wondering why our nunbers are so far off thoigh. I wont be getting my mk3 hi for a couple more weeks but will definitely compare the 2


Looks like you doubled your readings from 2.3A to 4.6A. I am not sure why ours are still far apart. If you notice in my pic, I am putting a lot of pressure on both my leads. I see on yours you are not even holding it tight. If you are like me, you are taking a picture with your left hand while trying to do the amp draw test with your right. So I am going to assume that you performed some dry runs and got the same results whilst two hands were holding everything tight. There were many times where I didn’t have a real tight solid contact at the battery and light and had to regroup and make good contact. It is hard to tell from your pics, but it also looks like you have the bare wires just stuck in the meter slots. In order for me to get these high readings, I had to eliminate all points of resistance as best I could.


----------



## fnsooner

Lumencrazy said:


> snowlover91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last but not least there was a discussion early on about the pogo pins and contact pressure. Since ZL has supposedly fixed the issue now with the pogo pins/battery rattle issue I thought I would post this pic of the Orbotronic 3500mah flat top cell and how firmly the pogo pins grip it. In fact you can see three tiny indents and the whole flat top is pressed in slightly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/QUOTE. The tabs rea
> *This may soon become a big issue !!!! I have been using unprotected cells for some time now The positive terminal is not designed to take a constant load: the metal is too thin!!!. With time it just keep collapsing further and further down into the battery. I now have one 18650 Panasonic cell that will not make good contact in the charger (XTAR VP2). This failure is especially bad when using lights, like some of the Armytek models, where the positive terminal is a hard contact. It is not necessary to drop a light face down in order to collapse the tab. Constant pressure over time is sufficient. Even one drop can cause significant damage to the cell . In fact, simply dropping a cell face down into the battery tube (where there is no spring) will begin collapsing the tab. The manufacturers need to take this into account! Companies like Zebralight, Armytek (Wizard, Partner, Prime series) that openly support the use of unprotected cells (having an exposed thin tab, like all of the Panasonic,Sanyo, Sansung and LG brands),yet by their flashlight design damage the cell, need to be put on notice. They neen to resolve this issue before someone ends up with an electrical short in their pocket. I would hate to be in their shoes if something like this ever happened. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are legitimate concerns Lumencrazy. We will have to keep an eye on it. The two NCR18650GAs that I have been using in my SC63w and 600 III do have that slight indention in them. I have inspected them and they seem to have pushed in to the point that they are pretty solid. It appears to have pushed in as far as it will. Will have to keep an eye on it.
> 
> If it does become a problem, I would think it would be the opposite of causing a short and would cause an open circuit. I am not convinced that this will become a problem. I will be using my 63 every day, banging it around and occasionally dropping it. I’ll see how the battery holds up.
> 
> I also have a Armytech flashlight with the solid pin. Hopefully the pogo pins will have enough cushion to not be as harsh as the AT.
> 
> Just the fact that the positive flat gets indented some, may bother some people. As long as it is just an initial break-in type scenario and doesn’t cause the battery to deteriorate more and more, I am not going to be too concerned.
> 
> I got into a habit of setting my SC62w bezel down with the tail cap setting off to the side while charging the battery. When battery was charged I would insert battery (while SC62w was still bezel down on table) about two thirds of the way in and drop it. It would be cushioned by the spring in the head of the flashlight. On the new models with the pogo pins, the battery comes to a stop with a bit of a thud. I have had to alter this way of habit.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jose Marin

fnsooner said:


> I am putting a lot of pressure on both my leads. I see on yours you are not even holding it tight. If you are like me, you are taking a picture with tour left hand while trying to do the amp draw test with your right. So I am going to assume that you performed some dry runs and got the same results whilst two hands were holding everything tight. It is hard to tell from your pics, but it also looks like you have the bare wires just stuck in the meter slots. In order for me to get these high readings, I had to eliminate all points of resistance as best I could.



Yeah i was pushing down originally but the numbers didnt change so i left them just touching. I also repositioned the bare wires on the jacks and it didn't change but i do agree with you about taking out every bit of resistance and need some banana jacks or something


----------



## recDNA

emarkd said:


> I made a set for mine. 12 gauge speaker wire and some solder-on banana plugs. Made a huge difference in my readings.


Nobody sells em all made?


----------



## emarkd

recDNA said:


> Nobody sells em all made?


I really don't know, but I'm not aware of any. If they did they'd cost a lot more than 6" of speaker wire and a couple of banana plugs, so I didn't mind making my own.


----------



## fnsooner

Jose Marin said:


> Yeah i was pushing down originally but the numbers didnt change so i left them just touching. I also repositioned the bare wires on the jacks and it didn't change but i do agree with you about taking out every bit of resistance and need some banana jacks or something


If you get confident that all the resistance problems are taken care of, I would probably trust your fluke over my budget DMM. The big thing is to get rid of the wimpy leads. 

The only real point of reference I have is two single mode P60 drop-ins that I bought about six months ago, They are rated for 3.04A. It seems weird that the rating is 3.04A and not just an even 3.00A. Any how, my budget meter measures exactly 3.07A on both of the drop-ins so I always figured I was somewhere in the ball park. Mine may start getting out of whack as the amps increase.

My Fieldpiece HS36 that I use currently at work doesn’t do DC current at that rate( it only measures micro-amps), so I bought the Innova to do battery management at home.


----------



## newbie66

sticktodrum said:


> I ordered it from Illumn, and it was slotted for delivery Tuesday. Monday night it was scanned at a PO not too far from me, and that was the last I heard of it. No more scans, no delivery. I called USPS and they so far have not been able to locate it at the last place it was scanned.
> 
> Oddly enough, I placed another order with Illumn a day later, and that's out for delivery now.
> 
> I'll keep bugging the USPS, and I emailed Illumn to see if they could do anything. But this has happened before and I never did get the package. It stayed in limbo for a year until the tracking number no longer returned results. Should have selected Priority, at least then it would have been insured... The package had the Mk3 and two 18650s in it. Not the most expensive package in the world, but I'm really bummed. Hoping it shows up at all.
> 
> So, no fun lumen testing or face scorching for me yet. May have to just order another.



Darn, hope you get that item. They may find it eventually. Just keep bugging them.


----------



## fnsooner

OK, so I have been reading HKJ’s guide to checking amp draw on flashlights. LINK Shame on me for not reading this earlier. Interesting stuff. He shows a lot of different ways to measure current, most of which I would never attempt. The clamp on meter interests me though. I might get one.

The type of tailcap current check that we are all performing seems to have problems, especially on current controlled drivers. One of HKJ's examples shows a Fluke and a budget DMM that have significantly different readings of the same test.


HKJ said:


> As can be seen, the two meters do not agree on the value. That is because the current draw is not really DC, but drawn in very fast pulses, the meters does not sum this the same way. This is only a problem on some flashlights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using a oscilloscope and a current probe, it is possible to capture the actual current, it swings from nearly zero to about 2.7A. Letting the scope calculate on the waveform gives a value close to the Fluke meter.
> *Note: An oscilloscope is good at showing curves, but not very accurate when measuring*



HKJ never comments on which of the DMM he thinks is more accurate. He also shows that even an oscilloscope isn’t all that accurate at measuring amp draw.

I think his examples and us being all over the board with our measurements may serve to indicate that getting an accurate measurement is tougher than first thought. 

Here is another excerpt from HKJ’s guide to show more evidence that getting an absolute correct amp reading is kind of fleeting.


HKJ said:


> [SIZE=+2]Current consumption: High current draw[/SIZE]
> 
> When the current goes up, the precision on the DMM goes down, this is not because the DMM has a lower precision at high currents, but because the voltage drop over the probes and DMM will have more influence on the measurement. This is because we have to use the full range, not only 10% of the range and even a small resistance in the probes is significant at a couple of amperes when working with low voltage.


To me, more evidence that tail cap readings are tough is that none of the flashlight reviewers take it on in their reviews. It sounds like something too messy to deal with.

Most of the batteries that I own have had tail cap amperage testing on a direct drive XP-L flashlight and I get from 3.5A to 5.9A depending on what battery I test. All of my measurements may not be exactly accurate but I guess they are relative to each other within the subset that is “my batteries and my flashlights that have been tested. “

Thanks HKJ if you are reading. I have learned a lot in the last couple of days.

I guess when it all comes down to it, lumen count and lux readings are the king stats and a more reliable way of calculating output.


----------



## GeoBruin

I agree there are a lot of variables but specifically on high there shouldnt be any pwm. Unless you're waiting until the PID kicks in. Might make sense to make sure the light is nice and cool before taking the tailcap reading just to make sure the PID isn't skewing the number.


----------



## emarkd

If I understand correctly, and I very well may not, a true RMS meter will average those pulses properly and give you a much better indication of the true draw. That's why a cheap meter and a good fluke give different numbers.

Short answer: the fluke is "more" correct, assuming it's an RMS meter. I think only their higher-end meters are.


----------



## seasam

fnsooner said:


> If you get confident that all the resistance problems are taken care of, I would probably trust your fluke over my budget DMM. The big thing is to get rid of the wimpy leads.
> 
> The only real point of reference I have is two single mode P60 drop-ins that I bought about six months ago, They are rated for 3.04A. It seems weird that the rating is 3.04A and not just an even 3.00A. Any how, my budget meter measures exactly 3.07A on both of the drop-ins so I always figured I was somewhere in the ball park. Mine may start getting out of whack as the amps increase.
> 
> My Fieldpiece HS36 that I use currently at work doesn’t do DC current at that rate( it only measures micro-amps), so I bought the Innova to do battery management at home.



3.04A = 8x380mA 7135 chips


----------



## fnsooner

seasam said:


> 3.04A = 8x380mA 7135 chips


 Thanks for that. Do you think that my current readings of 3.07A proves that my measurements are fairly accurate with my DMM in general or is it mostly proof that my DMM is accurate in this particular situation and other situations are not comparable?


----------



## fnsooner

GeoBruin said:


> I agree there are a lot of variables but specifically on high there shouldnt be any pwm. Unless you're waiting until the PID kicks in. Might make sense to make sure the light is nice and cool before taking the tailcap reading just to make sure the PID isn't skewing the number.


That is a good point GeoBruin. One that I failed to mention. I constantly kept my NCR18650GA cells on the charger topped off and ran cold water over my SC600 III, from time to time, while testing.




emarkd said:


> If I understand correctly, and I very well may not, a true RMS meter will average those pulses properly and give you a much better indication of the true draw. That's why a cheap meter and a good fluke give different numbers.
> 
> Short answer: the fluke is "more" correct, assuming it's an RMS meter. I think only their higher-end meters are.


Hmm, RMS. New term for me. I am trying to decide if I am going to go further down this road.


----------



## Aldiggi

My MKIII just shipped.


----------



## markr6

Aldiggi said:


> My MKIII just shipped.



Good to hear! Still none in stock online, so I guess they're still filling backorders. Man, these must have been hot!


----------



## sticktodrum

Yay! My Mk3 showed up! Just out of the blue. What a great stroke of luck!

This light is pretty neat, I like the styling better than the Mk2, certainly. Noticeably brighter on max, doesn't get as hot as quickly, and the tint on this LED is more yellow than the NW on the Mk2's XM-L2. Not my favorite tint, but far from bad. 

The shrink wrapped NCR18650GA cells fit perfectly, no rattle. They fit fine, and work fine, like they do in my other lights. 

Woot.

Edit: The Mk3 is still in stock at Illumn. It says they have 6 left...


----------



## Gej785

I ordered my SC600 MK III on eBay and got it on Saturday so I got to play with it all weekend. I love love love the output on this light and the cool white is less cool than the SC62 that I have but has a great tint without being any variant of yellow. I'm in love with it up to this point and even programmed the PID to the highest level cause it stepped down too fast for my liking. Now if Zebralight would ship my SC63 I'd be in great shape!!


----------



## Aldiggi

markr6 said:


> Good to hear! Still none in stock online, so I guess they're still filling backorders. Man, these must have been hot!



My order date was 2/13 btw.


----------



## sidecross

sticktodrum said:


> Yay! My Mk3 showed up! Just out of the blue. What a great stroke of luck!
> 
> This light is pretty neat, I like the styling better than the Mk2, certainly. Noticeably brighter on max, doesn't get as hot as quickly, and the tint on this LED is more yellow than the NW on the Mk2's XM-L2. Not my favorite tint, but far from bad.
> 
> The shrink wrapped NCR18650GA cells fit perfectly, no rattle. They fit fine, and work fine, like they do in my other lights.
> 
> Woot.
> 
> Edit: The Mk3 is still in stock at Illumn. It says they have 6 left...


If ever a USPS Priority Mail goes undelivered, be sure to fill out an e-mail USPS form for a non-delivery. You will receive an e-mail confirmation and a complaint designation ID. This is the fastest way to expedite a delivery.


----------



## Jose Marin

Anyone have a high pitch noise on all the h2 modes? Also pre flash on all the l2 modes? Sux i just got this one back from warranty wondering if this is normal or if i should send it back again, thanks everyone


----------



## Brasso

I'm still waiting for their rear clicky model to be released. It's only been what....5 years?


----------



## sticktodrum

Jose Marin said:


> Anyone have a high pitch noise on all the h2 modes? Also pre flash on all the l2 modes? Sux i just got this one back from warranty wondering if this is normal or if i should send it back again, thanks everyone


I only have inductor whine at the lowest sub level of H2. All others I hear nothing. I also have no pre flash.


----------



## Aldiggi

My MK3 should arrive today. Well it's scheduled to but you know how USPS works. How are you guys liking these new ZL models?


----------



## hiuintahs

Jose Marin said:


> Anyone have a high pitch noise on all the h2 modes?


I saw this note at Illumn.com in bright bold red capital letters:

NOTE: H2 ON EVERY SC600 MKIII EMITS AN INDUCTOR WHINE, THE EFFECT IS NOT NOTICEABLE TO SOME PEOPLE BUT IT DOES EXIST AT THE DEFAULT H2 LEVEL. IF THIS BOTHERS YOU DO NOT ORDER THIS PRODUCT AS NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES WILL BE ACCEPTED DUE TO THE INDUCTOR NOISE.


----------



## fnsooner

Aldiggi said:


> My MK3 should arrive today... How are you guys liking these new ZL models?



I am liking mine. My SC63w took its first nose dive into the concrete yesterday. It was from about two feet. No harm done.


----------



## Fireclaw18

hiuintahs said:


> I saw this note at Illumn.com in bright bold red capital letters:
> 
> NOTE: H2 ON EVERY SC600 MKIII EMITS AN INDUCTOR WHINE, THE EFFECT IS NOT NOTICEABLE TO SOME PEOPLE BUT IT DOES EXIST AT THE DEFAULT H2 LEVEL. IF THIS BOTHERS YOU DO NOT ORDER THIS PRODUCT AS NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES WILL BE ACCEPTED DUE TO THE INDUCTOR NOISE.



Yes, when I visited Illumn a couple weeks ago, they told me that after they received their SC600 IIIs they contacted Zebralight to report the inductor whine. Apparently Zebralight engineers are a little older (and had worse hearing) and couldn't hear the whine. Had they been able to hear it they would have addressed it in engineering before the light shipped.


----------



## regulator

I don't recall anyone mentioning if the MK3 can use 2 cr123 cells. They should fit and the light is rated for 6 volts. Has anyone done this and is it ok?


----------



## markr6

hiuintahs said:


> I saw this note at Illumn.com in bright bold red capital letters:
> 
> NOTE: H2 ON EVERY SC600 MKIII EMITS AN INDUCTOR WHINE, THE EFFECT IS NOT NOTICEABLE TO SOME PEOPLE BUT IT DOES EXIST AT THE DEFAULT H2 LEVEL. IF THIS BOTHERS YOU DO NOT ORDER THIS PRODUCT AS NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES WILL BE ACCEPTED DUE TO THE INDUCTOR NOISE.



Yeah that was strange. I had both the SC600w MKIII and SC600 MKIII - earliest model, I believe the first here. No whine at all on them. I have very good hearing and it just wasn't there.


----------



## scs

Fireclaw18 said:


> Yes, when I visited Illumn a couple weeks ago, they told me that after they received their SC600 IIIs they contacted Zebralight to report the inductor whine. Apparently Zebralight engineers are a little older (and had worse hearing) and couldn't hear the whine. Had they been able to hear it they would have addressed it in engineering before the light shipped.



Design by ear...


----------



## sticktodrum

2xCR123a doesn't fit. The voltage should work, but they are too long together.


----------



## carl

Many people do tend to lose the ability to hear the higher frequencies as we age. We'll all be there someday...


----------



## markr6

carl said:


> Many people do tend to lose the ability to hear the higher frequencies as we age. We'll all be there someday...



That is interesting. I used to be able to hear around 18,000kHz. Now it's closer to 17,300kHz.


----------



## scs




----------



## snowlover91

My MK3 HI has no high pitch whine on any levels. It may be the batch received by Illumn was an initial batch that exhibited these characteristics and they've since been fixed by ZL. If it had one I would be able to hear it for sure.


----------



## Jose Marin

hiuintahs said:


> I saw this note at Illumn.com in bright bold red capital letters:
> 
> NOTE: H2 ON EVERY SC600 MKIII EMITS AN INDUCTOR WHINE



Thanks, would be nice if zl put that on their site too. I guess ill still send it back for preflash


----------



## regulator

sticktodrum said:


> 2xCR123a doesn't fit. The voltage should work, but they are too long together.


Thanks sticktodrum.


----------



## Aldiggi

I can not believe how small this beauty is.


----------



## Aldiggi

I totally was not expecting it to be this small.


----------



## gunga

That's what she said!


----------



## Aldiggi

I know these are 2 totally different lights but it is worth the comparison.


----------



## Aldiggi

Is it me or does this light not seem like 1300 lumens?


----------



## snowlover91

Aldiggi said:


> Is it me or does this light not seem like 1300 lumens?




As in more or less than 1300?


----------



## Aldiggi

snowlover91 said:


> As in more or less than 1300?



Less than 1300


----------



## snowlover91

Aldiggi said:


> Less than 1300



It shouldn't be. Several members have measured 1400-1600 lumens from the CW version of the MK 3. If you're comparing it to other lights several factors can make it seem less bright such as the fact that it's a floody beam profile, closer to a neutral tint, etc. The human eye isn't a very good light meter especially when you get over 700 lumens I find it's hard to tell lumens because so many factors can "trick" the eye into thinking something is producing more or less lumens than it should be.


----------



## Aldiggi

snowlover91 said:


> It shouldn't be. Several members have measured 1400-1600 lumens from the CW version of the MK 3. If you're comparing it to other lights several factors can make it seem less bright such as the fact that it's a floody beam profile, closer to a neutral tint, etc. The human eye isn't a very good light meter especially when you get over 700 lumens I find it's hard to tell lumens because so many factors can "trick" the eye into thinking something is producing more or less lumens than it should be.



I am very happy with it. I just fully charged the battery and it's a powerhouse for its size. I love the flood and beam pattern. Fits right in my pocket and the build quality is awesome!!


----------



## recDNA

I like the screwed in clip of my sc62. Those push on clips are cheesy looking imo and I always use a clip.


----------



## bodhran

Aldiggi, in your photos you seem to be compairing the floody SC600 to a thrower. The hot spot of the thrower is of course going to be brighter. Also there seems to be a lot of background lighting. Take the SC600 out into the country where there is no competing lights and you will be amazed.


----------



## recDNA

Has anyone tried the new AW 3000 maH IMR flat top battery in an mkiii to see if it fits?


----------



## sidecross

recDNA said:


> Has anyone tried the new AW 3000 maH IMR flat top battery in an mkiii to see if it fits?




*AW IMR18650 3000mAh 20A FLAT TOP*
*Specifications :*

Nominal Voltage : 3.7V
Capacity : 3000mAh
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.50V
Standard Charge Rate: CC/CV ( 1.5A - 4A max.)
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Max. continuous discharge rate : 20A
Operating Discharge Temperature : -20 - 60 Degree Celsius
Dimensions : (18.30 mm x 65.00 mm) (+/- 0.20 mm)

http://www.rtdvapor.com/new-aw-imr-18650-3-7v-3000mah-flat-top/


----------



## recDNA

Ya I know but has anyone tried it?


----------



## sidecross

recDNA said:


> Ya I know but has anyone tried it?


I wasted my time. :thumbsdow


----------



## Equitymind

Ok, first post here and it's to say that after reading all 80 pages here I made the leap and ordered my first Zebralight today (5th overall, 3 Nitecore and 1 Olight). I went with the ZLSC600 Mk3 SC600 Mk III 18650 XHP35 Flashlight Cool White. Looking forward to its arrival. Thank you to everyone who influenced my decision.

Quick question: Where do I get a decent case for the thing? I have all of my lights hanging on brushed nickel hooks that I hung up under a shelf on my home office desk so it would need a D ring on the back for hanging similar to the Nitecore holsters.

Thanks!


----------



## bodhran

Though it is a bit bulky, I carry mine in a Nite Ize tool holster. Good fit and well protected. It does have a nylon loop for hanging.


----------



## bodhran

I saw that Vinh has a video of the SC600 MKlll on YouTube. The first I have seen.


----------



## Tachead

bodhran said:


> I saw that Vinh has a video of the SC600 MKlll on YouTube. The first I have seen.



Can you post a link? Thanks:thumbsup:


----------



## bodhran

Not sure how to post a link, I'm old...*s* Just typed in Zebralight SC600 in search and it was on the first page.


----------



## sidecross

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk-542teIPE


----------



## Mr Floppy

Ha, that's one fat cat in that video


----------



## TCY

Vinh: "...and I would have three different shades of grey."
Dat facial expression.


----------



## tupercav

Got mine yesterday. Sc600w mk III. Significant buzzing im H2 (150lm), very annoying. Quite amazed with the size, but very disappointed with quality.


----------



## Lumencrazy

tupercav said:


> Got mine yesterday. Sc600w mk III. Significant buzzing im H2 (150lm), very annoying. Quite amazed with the size, but very disappointed with quality.




Did you get it directly from Zebralight?


----------



## sidecross

tupercav said:


> Got mine yesterday. Sc600w mk III. Significant buzzing im H2 (150lm), very annoying. Quite amazed with the size, but very disappointed with quality.


My SC600 Mk III 18650 XHP35 Flashlight Cool White is set for 160 lumens for High 2 and even being placed to my ear has no sound. Do you have any way of measuring the 'buzzing' in Hertz and then contacting ZebraLight?


----------



## recDNA

They're all supposed to have that issue. Vinh and illumn both mention it. It is the mode I use most too.


----------



## sidecross

recDNA said:


> They're all supposed to have that issue. Vinh and illumn both mention it. It is the mode I use most too.


I must be the only one whose High 2 does not make a sound. My partner, justplaincross, assure me I am not deaf. :thumbsup:


----------



## sdr

sidecross said:


> I must be the only one whose High 2 does not make a sound. My partner, justplaincross, assure me I am not deaf. :thumbsup:



Mine doesn't making any sound, either. At least none that I can hear. But that's not saying much because I suffer from severe tinnitus and hearing loss for which I am compensated monetarily each month by the Veteran's Administration. Another perk of military service!


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> They're all supposed to have that issue. Vinh and illumn both mention it. It is the mode I use most too.



No the initial batch received by Illumn had this issue. My light ordered from ZL directly does not have the issue at all. I have some old Nitecore and P60 modules with whine and if it were present in my sample I would be able to hear it. I also have an SC5fd from the preorder batch last fall that had this issue and it went away with use, after a few days the high pitch noise went away.


----------



## Lumencrazy

recDNA said:


> They're all supposed to have that issue. Vinh and illumn both mention it. It is the mode I use most too.



Why are they supposed to have this issue? Some fundamental engineering limitation? Buzzing whining circuitry sounds like energy is being wasted. Some component working outside if its design parameters.


----------



## markr6

sidecross said:


> I must be the only one whose High 2 does not make a sound. My partner, justplaincross, assure me I am not deaf. :thumbsup:



I had two and neither of them made a sound. Trust me, I would have noticed.


----------



## sidecross

sdr said:


> Mine doesn't making any sound, either. At least none that I can hear. But that's not saying much because I suffer from severe tinnitus and hearing loss for which I am compensated monetarily each month by the Veteran's Administration. Another perk of military service!


+1

I recently read The Evil Hours: A Biography of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder by David J Morris whose line in the book "Have you ever been blown up before, sir?" is repeated.

I have a good friend who was a First Sergent who suffers tinnitus as well as other more serious problems from our recent wars in the Middle East. I am glad the VA has helped you.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> I had two and neither of them made a sound. Trust me, I would have noticed.


Maybe only the first run as suggested. I will wait to see if illumn takes down the warning.


----------



## UTV2TiVo

My MK III doesn't have the sound either


----------



## Jose Marin

tupercav said:


> Got mine yesterday. Sc600w mk III. Significant buzzing im H2 (150lm), very annoying. Quite amazed with the size, but very disappointed with quality.



Got mine from zl website and i can hear inductor whine on all h2 modes, i wonder if i can hear higher frequency than some because i can hear that noise on almost all my p60 modules/ other modded lights and the manufacturers/modders say they dont make any noise.


----------



## sidecross

Jose Marin said:


> Got mine from zl website and i can hear inductor whine on all h2 modes, i wonder if i can hear higher frequency than some because i can hear that noise on almost all my p60 modules/ other modded lights and the manufacturers/modders say they dont make any noise.


The human eye and ear are not the same for every person; PWM or certain sounds in Hertz are not equal to all. If you are sensitive to PWM or certain frequencies of Hertz, it should be a part of your understanding.


----------



## Jose Marin

Yeah im understanding, no big deal. Only really notice high frequency in complete silence


----------



## Tachead

I believe someone posted a while back that ZL said it was only the first batch/batches of these lights that had the inductor whine and that they would correct it going forward. So the newest runs shouldnt have it. That's probably why some people have it and some dont.


----------



## snowlover91

Zebralight had the same issue when the SC5fd and c models were released, some had inductor whine from the boost circuit. This was the initial batch and my light was one of them. I decided to keep it since tint was great and after a few days of use the noise has disappeared. I would guess the same issue has happened here and subsequent batches should be fine, usually ZL will have a few issues with the first preorder batch and quickly fixes any issues that arise.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Amazing how people can accept and convince themselves that whining drivers are acceptable in 2016. Can you image in the large office towers where thousands of employees sit 8 hours every day where there can be over 500 hundred overhead lights in one big room and all of the drivers made a high frequency buzz? When you buy a cheap shop light from home depot it is common to hear a buzzing sound. In contrast, a shop light puchased at a commercial electrical supply is silent! There is a difference between a quality item and consumer grade. There is no justification for a buzzing driver except that the chinese manufacturers know that most American consumers don’t know the difference. Even Armytek considers a whining driver a defect and will replace the light. Come on folks wake up. You are getting hosed!! People who are telling you its normal just want to dump their inventory. How much do you want to bet that within the next few months none of Zebralights lights will have that problem.


----------



## markr6

Tachead said:


> I believe someone posted a while back that ZL said it was only the first batch/batches of these lights that had the inductor whine and that they would correct it going forward. So the newest runs shouldnt have it. That's probably why some people have it and some dont.



I was one of the first to get one. Two actually; SC600w III and SC600 III. Neither of them had any whine. So I guess we have the tint AND sound lottery. Luckily the anodizing lottery disappeared quite some time ago.


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> I was one of the first to get one. Two actually; SC600w III and SC600 III. Neither of them had any whine. So I guess we have the tint AND sound lottery. Luckily the anodizing lottery disappeared quite some time ago.



Yours might not have been from the effected batches. It might not have been the very first run but, any of the earlier runs. Either way I agree with Lumencrazy, its not acceptable. But, it shouldnt effect function of the light if it doesnt bother you and ZL is not the only one who has had this problem. Either way, this is just another example of why it is safer to be patient and wait until they work the bugs out before purchasing. Especially with ZL who is notorious for this. A lot of companies use early adopters as beta testers these days and I for one wont be one of them.


----------



## bodhran

Mine was from the second production and has no whine. I think it was mentioned someplace here that some had the whine initially but has since gone away. Maybe they need a little break in period before we give up on them.


----------



## Glock27

Mine was from the first pre-order batch and neither my 17 year old daughter or I can hear any whine.

G27


----------



## tops2

I remember when asking Illumn when they first got the lights that some are more apparent than others. And some levels is also louder than others. But there doesn't seem to be a pattern. The light I demoed there I couldn't hear it but they could totally hear it but I was concerned the rest of my family might.

That said..doesn't sound like people with the SC63 mentioned the whine (at least from what I can remember).


----------



## 18650

Lumencrazy said:


> Amazing how people can accept and convince themselves that whining drivers are acceptable in 2016. Can you image in the large office towers where thousands of employees sit 8 hours every day where there can be over 500 hundred overhead lights in one big room and all of the drivers made a high frequency buzz? When you buy a cheap shop light from home depot it is common to hear a buzzing sound. In contrast, a shop light puchased at a commercial electrical supply is silent! There is a difference between a quality item and consumer grade. There is no justification for a buzzing driver except that the chinese manufacturers know that most American consumers don’t know the difference. Even Armytek considers a whining driver a defect and will replace the light. Come on folks wake up. You are getting hosed!! People who are telling you its normal just want to dump their inventory. How much do you want to bet that within the next few months none of Zebralights lights will have that problem.


 OK.


----------



## snowlover91

The whine is usually caused by the boost circuit and inductor. It has been my experience that many different companies from Nitecore, Olight, P60 modules and Zebralight sometimes have this issue especially with high output lights or PWM controlled ones. I agree it's not something to have in a light however it only seems to be in initial batches and the problem is usually solved by the next batch or two. I had this issue with my SC5fd and waited a few days to see if it would go away with use and it did. Sometimes it won't go away and if mine didn't I would have exchanged it for a new one. I would recommend for those with the high pitch whine to use it regularly for a few days then if it doesn't go away and it bothers you contact ZL and get a new one. I think Illumn happened to get a batch from the preorder with this issue but I do not think its representative of all the lights and a small bug that's being worked out. Things like potting for example can effect how much the whine is heard as well as other things like circuit variables and battery voltage.


----------



## sidecross

Lumencrazy said:


> Amazing how people can accept and convince themselves that whining drivers are acceptable in 2016. Can you image in the large office towers where thousands of employees sit 8 hours every day where there can be over 500 hundred overhead lights in one big room and all of the drivers made a high frequency buzz? When you buy a cheap shop light from home depot it is common to hear a buzzing sound. In contrast, a shop light puchased at a commercial electrical supply is silent! There is a difference between a quality item and consumer grade. There is no justification for a buzzing driver except that the chinese manufacturers know that most American consumers don’t know the difference. Even Armytek considers a whining driver a defect and will replace the light. Come on folks wake up. You are getting hosed!! People who are telling you its normal just want to dump their inventory. How much do you want to bet that within the next few months none of Zebralights lights will have that problem.


The problem with your argument is a lack of data to confirm an exact count of how many of the new ZebraLights have been produced and what number of these have a problem.

Without this information and data, your allegations of consumer passivity and manufacture impropriety or misconduct is only speculation.

I would welcome to have this data provided, but without it is not possible to make allegations about a manufacturer and their consumers.


----------



## Equitymind

markr6 said:


> I was one of the first to get one. Two actually; SC600w III and SC600 III. Neither of them had any whine. So I guess we have the tint AND sound lottery. Luckily the anodizing lottery disappeared quite some time ago.




Markr6, between the two lights, which do you prefer? I ordered the cool white but after reading through the threads I'm wondering if I should have ordered the neutral instead or the Neutral HI? What are most people preferences here? Thanks in advance.


----------



## newbie66

Mr Floppy said:


> Ha, that's one fat cat in that video



Which makes it cuter.


----------



## Lumencrazy

sidecross said:


> The problem with your argument is a lack of data to confirm an exact count of how many of the new ZebraLights have been produced and what number of these have a problem.
> 
> Without this information and data, your allegations of consumer passivity and manufacture impropriety or misconduct is only speculation.
> 
> I would welcome to have this data provided, but without it is not possible to make allegations about a manufacturer and their consumers.



*NOTE: H2 ON EVERY SC600 MKIII EMITS AN INDUCTOR WHINE, THE EFFECT IS NOT NOTICEABLE TO SOME PEOPLE BUT IT DOES EXIST AT THE DEFAULT H2 LEVEL. IF THIS BOTHERS YOU DO NOT ORDER THIS PRODUCT AS NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES WILL BE ACCEPTED DUE TO THE INDUCTOR NOISE.

*http://www.illumn.com/zebralight-sc600w-mk-iii-l2-xhp35-neutral-white-1126-lm-flashlight.html


----------



## emarkd

I think its awesome that Illumn posts a note like that up front. I think most sellers would just keep quiet and hope the customer doesn't notice.


----------



## Lumencrazy

emarkd said:


> I think its awesome that Illumn posts a note like that up front. I think most sellers would just keep quiet and hope the customer doesn't notice.




I agree! no mention of it on Zebralights website.


----------



## InspectHerGadget

The only whining I can hear is when I read this thread. LOL


----------



## snowlover91

Lumencrazy said:


> I agree! no mention of it on Zebralights website.



Thats because it is a manufacturer defect. They will exchange it if you get one like that, they offered to when I contacted them about my SC5fd. Again we don't know how many lights Illumn ordered or received but only that their batch all had this issue. I received mine without any issue at all so it indicates that this is an initial issue that will be resolved. If you get one with the problem all you have to do is contact ZL and they'll exchange them. Also through use many times this noise can disappear.


----------



## Tachead

InspectHerGadget said:


> The only whining I can hear is when I read this thread. LOL



People have the right to whine. This is a $95 flashlight not a $10 Walmart flashlight(heck, I would not be happy if a $10 light had inductor whine). When you sell a high end/high dollar product peoples expectations are high. The buzzing drivers never should have past quality control imo.


----------



## sidecross

Lumencrazy said:


> *NOTE: H2 ON EVERY SC600 MKIII EMITS AN INDUCTOR WHINE, THE EFFECT IS NOT NOTICEABLE TO SOME PEOPLE BUT IT DOES EXIST AT THE DEFAULT H2 LEVEL. IF THIS BOTHERS YOU DO NOT ORDER THIS PRODUCT AS NO RETURNS OR EXCHANGES WILL BE ACCEPTED DUE TO THE INDUCTOR NOISE.
> 
> *http://www.illumn.com/zebralight-sc600w-mk-iii-l2-xhp35-neutral-white-1126-lm-flashlight.html


How many Zebralights SC600 Mk lll did Illumination Supply receive? What they did was to protect themselves from being a middle man between themselves and Zebralight.

I bought my my SC600 Mk lll directly from Zebralight because I knew that any problem would be taken care of by an replaced or repaired.

What will be interesting to see is if Illumination Supply will be an approved seller of Zebralight.


----------



## sidecross

Tachead said:


> People have the right to whine. This is a $95 flashlight not a $10 Walmart flashlight(heck, I would not be happy if a $10 light had inductor whine). When you sell a high end/high dollar product peoples expectations are high. The buzzing drivers never should have past quality control imo.


Surefire UDR Dominator Rechargeable Ultra-High Variable-Output LED

Price:
$1,370.00 http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/udr-dominator.html


----------



## emarkd

sidecross said:


> How many Zebralights SC600 Mk lll did Illumination Supply receive?
> 
> What will be interesting to see is if Illumination Supply will be an approved seller of Zebralight.



I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth but I spoke with Illumn about their lights. I'm pretty sure they got 10 units in that first shipment and all had the noise. Maybe they can come along and correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, yes Illumn is an authorized Zebralight dealer. They sell quite a bit of Zebralight. I've bought several from them.


----------



## sidecross

emarkd said:


> I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth but I spoke with Illumn about their lights. I'm pretty sure they got 10 units in that first shipment and all had the noise. Maybe they can come along and correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Also, yes Illumn is an authorized Zebralight dealer. They sell quite a bit of Zebralight. I've bought several from them.


I too buy from Illumination Supply and consider them an excellent source to buy from and will continue to buy from them.

What ever the problem may be, it seems to be a problem between ZebraLight and Illumination Supply, and in this instance the consumer is collateral damage.


----------



## Tachead

sidecross said:


> Surefire UDR Dominator Rechargeable Ultra-High Variable-Output LED
> 
> Price:
> $1,370.00 http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/udr-dominator.html



What exactly is the point of this post? Are you a Surefire dealer? This a ZL thread.


----------



## sidecross

Tachead said:


> What exactly is the point of this post? Are you a Surefire dealer? This a ZL thread.


I was only trying to make the point that a $95 flashlight is not a high priced flashlight, but I do agree that any problem of a product it is a responsibility of a manufacturer, Zebralight, to repair or replace that product.


----------



## emarkd

sidecross said:


> What ever the problem may be, it seems to be a problem between ZebraLight and Illumination Supply, and in this instance the consumer is collateral damage.



....except can you really call someone "collateral damage" when they're fully informed up front what's about to happen to them and given a choice about whether or not to participate? I mean I'm not sure what you think Illumn should do in this case. If Zebra doesn't think the lights are defective and are unwilling to take them back, then should Illumn just throw them away? Should they sell them anyway without informing folks? What would you suggest they do? Its not like folks now _have_ to buy these lights. They can go buy elsewhere and take their chances on maybe getting one that doesn't whine. Honestly it seems like Illumn is the one getting screwed here because most folks aren't going to buy those lights with that warning attached, so what's most likely to happen is those units are just going to sit and take up space on a shelf in their warehouse for a long time.

I'm really not trying to get in an argument over this I just think you're being a bit unreasonable toward Illumn.


----------



## sidecross

emarkd said:


> ....except can you really call someone "collateral damage" when they're fully informed up front what's about to happen to them and given a choice about whether or not to participate? I mean I'm not sure what you think Illumn should do in this case. If Zebra doesn't think the lights are defective and are unwilling to take them back, then should Illumn just throw them away? Should they sell them anyway without informing folks? What would you suggest they do? Its not like folks now _have_ to buy these lights. They can go buy elsewhere and take their chances on maybe getting one that doesn't whine. Honestly it seems like Illumn is the one getting screwed here because most folks aren't going to buy those lights with that warning attached, so what's most likely to happen is those units are just going to sit and take up space on a shelf in their warehouse for a long time.
> 
> I'm really not trying to get in an argument over this I just think you're being a bit unreasonable toward Illumn.


I certainly do not want to be perceived as unreasonable to Illumination Supply, I buy from them regularly and they are on my very short list of suppliers.

It is only my opinion, but I think Illumination Supply received a limited order of SC600 Mk lll that did have a problem and decided to sell them with their warning boldly attached. 

It is also possible that the demand for newest Zebralight was very high and a replacement order from Zebralight to replace the ones with a 'whine' too long. They then decided to sell their stock with their bold warning.

I do appreciate their warning, but not on their marketing procedure. This is my view point, and I will let others decide on it being reasonable.


----------



## Tachead

sidecross said:


> I was only trying to make the point that a $95 flashlight is not a high priced flashlight, but I do agree that any problem of a product it is a responsibility of a manufacturer, Zebralight, to repair or replace that product.



I beg to differ sir. $95US is a very high price for a single 18650 cell Chinese made flashlight. The light you quoted is in a totally different class and not even comparable. It is a 12 cell light and is made by one of the most overpriced American made companies where you pay extra just for the name. The MKIII is a single cell Chinese made flashlight. Zebralight is one of the highest priced, if not the highest in its class, Chinese made brand. So, people expect a higher standard then your average Chinese made light. Especially when some of the competition(Fenix, Nitecore, Eagletac, Olight, Thrunite, FourSevens, Armytek, exc.) are selling lights in this class for half the price of a Zebralight or even less.

Zebralight makes some nice products that are leaders in class in some respects but, if you are going to charge a premium price, people expect a premium product with premium quality control to go along with it. They have came a long way over the last few years but, their QC still needs improvement imo.

Also, lets keep things in perspective here. Most normal people(non-light enthusiasts) wouldnt pay more then $15 or $20 for a flashlight and would say anybody who spends $95US on a flashlight is nuts.


----------



## Tachead

sidecross said:


> I certainly do not want to be perceived as unreasonable to Illumination Supply, I buy from them regularly and they are on my very short list of suppliers.
> 
> It is only my opinion, but I think Illumination Supply received a limited order of SC600 Mk lll that did have a problem and decided to sell them with their warning boldly attached.
> 
> It is also possible that the demand for newest Zebralight was very high and a replacement order from Zebralight to replace the ones with a 'whine' too long. They then decided to sell their stock with their bold warning.
> 
> I do appreciate their warning, *but not on their marketing procedure*. This is my view point, and I will let others decide on it being reasonable.



I have to agree. I think Illumn should have sent them back to Zebralight instead of selling them with the warning. Doing what they did just lets ZL think they can get away with this in the future. If everyone just sent them back they would no that their QC has to improve going forward.

I mean come on Zebralight this is just another one of your constant new release issues. Battery rattle, cell tube tolerances, firmware issues, inductor whine, waterproofing issues, exc. where does it end? You just dont see anywhere near this many new release issues with other companies(even ones that cost half as much). People shouldnt need to feel the need to wait 6 months or a year before buying a new light so you can work the bugs out. Start testing your lights better before releasing them and quit using us as beta testers




.


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## scs

Tachead said:


> I have to agree. I think Illumn should have sent them back to Zebralight instead of selling them with the warning. Doing what they did just lets ZL think they can get away with this in the future. If everyone just sent them back they would no that their QC has to improve going forward.
> 
> I mean come on Zebralight this is just another one of your constant new release issues. Battery rattle, cell tube tolerances, firmware issues, inductor whine, waterproofing issues, exc. where does it end? You just dont see anywhere near this many new release issues with other companies(even ones that cost half as much). People shouldnt need to feel the need to wait 6 months or a year before buying a new light so you can work the bugs out. Start testing your lights better before releasing them and quit using us as beta testers.



Beta testers purchase early by choice. I appreciate their potential sacrifice.
ZL will not change unless enough of their customers refrain from buying, which rarely happens unless problems are persistent, lingering, and widespread.
It takes a very sensitive and risk averse consumer collective to not buy and financially hurt/punish a product and its maker. This collective rarely exists.


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## LightObsession

Tachead said:


> Especially when some of the competition(Fenix, Nitecore, Eagletac, Olight, Thrunite, FourSevens, Armytek, exc.) are selling lights in this class for half the price of a Zebralight or even less.



Which Armytek lights sell for half price of a similar Zebralight light? I didn't see any on their web page.


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## snowlover91

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've preordered all my Zebralights except the SC62w. The only problem I had was with my SC5fd high pitch whine that went away a few days later. I've had good tint and a light that works as expected. I'm hoping someone gets the MK3 HI soon and can compare it with the MK2 or MK3.


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## Tachead

scs said:


> Beta testers purchase early by choice. I appreciate their potential sacrifice.
> ZL will not change unless enough of their customers refrain from buying, which rarely happens unless problems are persistent, lingering, and widespread.
> It takes a very sensitive and risk averse consumer collective to not buy and financially hurt/punish a product and its maker. This collective rarely exists.



The point is customers shouldnt have to refrain to get them to change. They should want to. I guess they are all about money and dont have very good morals as a company. Like I said, you just dont see this many issues with the other Chinese companies. You would think they would want to try to do at least as good as their competition. Your right though, all the light junkies chomping at the bit with zero patients doesnt help though either.


----------



## psychbeat

I think a special CPF placebo version would be cool... 
Where you may get a cool new super efficient XHP HiCRI or maybe just an old first gen XML or maybe it won't work at all. 
Or maybe some kind of flogging attachment?
Sign me up. 

Roll the dice.


----------



## Tachead

LightObsession said:


> Which Armytek lights sell for half price of a similar Zebralight light? I didn't see any on their web page.



Really man, you gotta be that guy dont you:shakehead. I said "some" of the competition. Maybe Armytek wasnt the greatest one of my examples(they have their share of issues) but, you get my point. Notice though, that the Dobermann is $20US cheaper and is a much larger light(more material), with far more included accessories, and is built from better materials. And, they are the priciest company on my list. Zebralight definitely charges a premium price for their lights compared to most of my examples.


----------



## scs

Tachead said:


> Really man, you gotta be that guy dont you:shakehead. I said "some" of the competition. Maybe Armytek wasnt the greatest one of my examples(they have their share of issues) but, you get my point. Notice though, that the Dobermann is $20US cheaper and is a much larger light(more material), with far more included accessories, and is built from better materials. And, they are the priciest company on my list. Zebralight definitely charges a premium price for their lights compared to most of my examples.



Well...I think the ZL might be more difficult to machine and assemble.
And I still think the ZL driver performance is a step up above AT's.
At this point, I'm more willing to pay full ZL prices than I am buying anything Armytek at a discount. Talk about risk averse.


----------



## scs

With regard to Illumn's treatment of the whine, I'm a bit more ambivalent.
On one hand, the disclaimer scares off customers, so bad for Illumn.

I do agree with a previous post that says by having the disclaimer, Illumn essentially refuses to be the middleman between the customers and ZL.

If ZL is exchanging whiny lights from customers, it does make me wonder why Illumn's stock has not been exchanged.

If ZL honors exchanges of lights purchased from dealers, I suppose a customer can buy it at Illumn and then send it back to ZL for exchange. Not worth the trouble though.

But Illumn is being honest, which is commendable. It's hard to find establishments that will speak negatively of a product they have decided to stock.


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## sidecross

Tachead said:


> Most normal people(non-light enthusiasts) wouldnt pay more then $15 or $20 for a flashlight and would say anybody who spends $95US on a flashlight is nuts.



I have been called even worse than 'nuts' by some people; this as always been a part of my legend. :thumbsup:


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## scs

The factors that ZL has going for me are choice of tint, CRI, and above all else the best regulated runtimes in the industry, and I'm willing to pay for them.
But as soon as another competitor makes equivalent, reliable alternatives at lower prices, I'm jumping ship.
It's just business at the end of the day. The relationship and its dynamics go no further.


----------



## nbp

Not an Armytek thread guys...


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## gunga

I gotta agree. $95 is a lot. This is a premium light. Better QC should be mandatory. Too bad they easily get away without it. Sigh.


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## snowlover91

I would say ZL has significantly improved the QC of their lights. I remember threads from a few years ago where they had major tint issues, bad switches, flickering, no turbo, etc all going on with the same series of lights. While their QC isn't quite where it needs to be they have improved a great deal. The issues like battery rattle and inductor whine have not been reported on any of the MK3 HI versions or the SC63 models either. What I look for is when a company makes a mistake how quickly are they to resolve the issue and take care of the customers affected. Even big companies like Apple and Samsung have product defects at times but the key is how quickly the catch, and fix, the issue. Good companies fix it quickly. Zebralight has done a good job fixing the battery rattle issue as evidenced by the SC63 and MK3 HI not having any issues whatsoever.


----------



## tops2

emarkd said:


> I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth but I spoke with Illumn about their lights. I'm pretty sure they got 10 units in that first shipment and all had the noise. Maybe they can come along and correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Also, yes Illumn is an authorized Zebralight dealer. They sell quite a bit of Zebralight. I've bought several from them.



Yeah, it seems like they received about 10 of each variety. I applaud them in putting up the notice after they noticed this instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

It looked like they sold out of the cool white version a while ago and currently still have some neutral whites left. I noticed they removed the note about the whine from the cool white version.


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## recDNA

I'm torn between the cool white and the HiCRI supposedly to follow. I prefer the HI CRI but it will be a long wait. The neutral white is too warm for my taste as is the HI DEF. BTW, to me HI CRI is 90+ not 80+ so I hope they go with the top bins.


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## snowlover91

If the MK3 Plus is any sign of what they'll do with the hi CRI lights it's going to be nice. Tint at 5k and CRI 93-95 so hopefully they'll use that for their other lights too.


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## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> If the MK3 Plus is any sign of what they'll do with the hi CRI lights it's going to be nice. Tint at 5k and CRI 93-95 so hopefully they'll use that for their other lights too.



I vote for slightly warmer then 5K myself. I find my 5K H600Fd MKIII a bit cool for outdoors and/or late at night. My 4K H600Fc MKIII is much nicer for those applications imo(trees, grass, foliage, exc. look much better and its easier on dark adapted eyes). 5K is good for working on the stuff during the day though or general daytime use in a dark environment(working on a vehicle, the furnace, electronics, exc.) Somewhere between the two would be a good best of both worlds I bet. Its funny, after getting 2 identical lights, one in 4K and one in 5K, it reminds me of the first time I compared NW to CW. I definitely know now that I prefer CCT closer to the warm side of neutral for a lot of my uses. YMMV.


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## newbie66

snowlover91 said:


> I would say ZL has significantly improved the QC of their lights. I remember threads from a few years ago where they had major tint issues, bad switches, flickering, no turbo, etc all going on with the same series of lights. While their QC isn't quite where it needs to be they have improved a great deal. The issues like battery rattle and inductor whine have not been reported on any of the MK3 HI versions or the SC63 models either. What I look for is when a company makes a mistake how quickly are they to resolve the issue and take care of the customers affected. Even big companies like Apple and Samsung have product defects at times but the key is how quickly the catch, and fix, the issue. Good companies fix it quickly. Zebralight has done a good job fixing the battery rattle issue as evidenced by the SC63 and MK3 HI not having any issues whatsoever.




Agreed. I have a feeling they are monitoring cpf.


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## twistedraven

Tachead said:


> I vote for slightly warmer then 5K myself. I find my 5K H600Fd MKIII a bit cool for outdoors and/or late at night. My 4K H600Fc MKIII is much nicer for those applications imo(trees, grass, foliage, exc. look much better and its easier on dark adapted eyes). 5K is good for working on the stuff during the day though or general daytime use in a dark environment(working on a vehicle, the furnace, electronics, exc.) Somewhere between the two would be a good best of both worlds I bet. Its funny, after getting 2 identical lights, one in 4K and one in 5K, it reminds me of the first time I compared NW to CW. I definitely know now that I prefer CCT closer to the warm side of neutral for a lot of my uses. YMMV.




The H600FD MKIII is around 4700k, so it is slightly warmer than 5k. I find it a little on the yellow/warmer side of a pure white, but I can also see it being a little cool and harsh at night comparing to the C version, which is around 3800k.


----------



## sidecross

newbie66 said:


> Agreed. I have a feeling they are monitoring cpf.


I would hope ZebraLight does monitor CPF; most of what I post is written as if being posted to ZebraLight in Texas.


----------



## Tachead

twistedraven said:


> The H600FD MKIII is around 4700k, so it is slightly warmer than 5k. I find it a little on the yellow/warmer side of a pure white, but I can also see it being a little cool and harsh at night comparing to the C version, which is around 3800k.



Yep, I agree.

Keep in mind though, you cant just take maukka's and other peoples measurements as gospel. There is variation of colour temp between emitters. ZL probably states the average in their specs(4000K and 5000K). My H600Fd MKIII measures 4960K and my H600Fc MKIII measures 4160K(approximate Android camera app reading).


----------



## Tachead

sidecross said:


> I would hope ZebraLight does monitor CPF; most of what I post is written as if being posted to ZebraLight in Texas.



I am pretty sure they do as I brought up the subject of having adjustable PID on their lights and a while later they released PID programming after me and others were talking about it. I doubt that was a coincidence.


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## snowlover91

If we can just get a high CRI SC63 with 90+ that comes in 4K and 5k tint producing 900+ lumens I think I'll be set. I've waited a long time for someone to produce one and I'm hoping ZL steps up to the plate and produces one this year.


----------



## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> If we can just get a high CRI SC63 with 90+ that comes in 4K and 5k tint producing 900+ lumens I think I'll be set. I've waited a long time for someone to produce one and I'm hoping ZL steps up to the plate and produces one this year.



I believe ZL has said there are no plans to do a "c and d" variant of the SC63 unfortunately. I dont understand why they dont because 90+CRI versions of the XHP35 are available in 4000, 4500, and 5000K(maybe they are hard to get though?). Heck, I dont get why they only used a 80CRI version in the "w" when they could have used the 90+ version in 4500K. I personlly would be fine paying a bit more for better "cherry picked emitters". I say "cherry picked" because picking emitters as close to the black body radiation line as possible is just as important as CRI and CCT.


----------



## newbie66

sidecross said:


> I would hope ZebraLight does monitor CPF; most of what I post is written as if being posted to ZebraLight in Texas.



:thumbup:


----------



## newbie66

Tachead said:


> I am pretty sure they do as I brought up the subject of having adjustable PID on their lights and a while later they released PID programming after me and others were talking about it. I doubt that was a coincidence.



That is good. Too bad only the HI model has that feature currently.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> I believe ZL has said there are no plans to do a "c and d" variant of the SC63 unfortunately. I dont understand why they dont because 90+CRI versions of the XHP35 are available in 4000, 4500, and 5000K(maybe they are hard to get though?). Heck, I dont get why they only used a 80CRI version in the "w" when they could have used the 90+ version in 4500K. I personlly would be fine paying a bit more for better "cherry picked emitters". I say "cherry picked" because picking emitters as close to the black body radiation line as possible is just as important as CRI and CCT.




Im not sure if they will or not, when I emailed them they said they had plans for the c and d variant but weren't sure if they would be able to put them in production since the process for those is a little different... However I believe mark or someone else emailed them a week or two later and was told they had no plans to produce them so I'm not sure which is the case. I would be willing to pay extra for a 90+ CRI version of the SC63 if they did decide to produce one.


----------



## Tachead

newbie66 said:


> That is good. Too bad only the HI model has that feature currently.



Actually all models since late 2012 have this feature, flashlights and headlamps.


----------



## waxing twilight

Tachead said:


> I am pretty sure they do as I brought up the subject of having adjustable PID on their lights and a while later they released PID programming after me and others were talking about it. I doubt that was a coincidence.



Yeah, I was going to mention that as well. Didn't they add the instructions on their website as the conversation about adjusting PID was happening? That does seem like it would be a very big, improbable coincidence to not have been monitoring that discussion.


----------



## waxing twilight

Ha ha, beat me to that one too, lol. Still, a great development to have that capability to adjust now, though.


----------



## Uxorious

Got my SC600w Mk III HI，I do a simple measurement for a quick reference to all you guys about how it can throw:
Measurement distance about 2m with ambient light at 69lux, the equipment used as follows:
http://www.tenmars.com/webls-en-us/TM-720.html















Reference:
Olight SR52UT Hi:47000LUX (spec. 1100lumens, 160000cd)
 Med:23000LUX (spec. 550lumens, 80000cd)

Zebralight SC600 MK III HI H1:~5000LUX (spec. 1126lumens, take SR52UT as standard so it's about 17000cd)
 H2:~2700LUX (spec. 580umens, take SR52UT as standard so it's about 9200cd)

Anyone got a similar number?

If you can read Chinese welcome to join us here: 
http://www.wii.tw/~fogerdis/viewthread.php?tid=53470&extra=page=1


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## waxing twilight

Cool, thanks for the measurements, Uxorious:thumbup:


----------



## newbie66

Tachead said:


> Actually all models since late 2012 have this feature, flashlights and headlamps.




The older models can be adjusted as well? They did not update the instructions for those models though, only the HI. I also don't have my H600w MkII to test unfortunately.


----------



## newbie66

Thx for the measurement too. I expected that it won't throw that far as someone has mentioned earlier. But still noticeable.


----------



## scout24

While the ability to adjust the PID may be of use to some, I'd rather leave it alone and retain runtime on my lights. A quick burst on H1 as needed, double click down to H2, thank you. If I want a high mode hotrod, I'll grab another light. I'd much rather have the ability to further adjust the modes than have a few extra lumens for a few more minutes.


----------



## Tachead

newbie66 said:


> The older models can be adjusted as well? They did not update the instructions for those models though, only the HI. I also don't have my H600w MkII to test unfortunately.



Yep, I contacted ZL about it and posted the emails further back in this thread and another one. All models produced since late 2012 have this feature.


----------



## Tachead

scout24 said:


> While the ability to adjust the PID may be of use to some, I'd rather leave it alone and retain runtime on my lights. A quick burst on H1 as needed, double click down to H2, thank you. If I want a high mode hotrod, I'll grab another light. I'd much rather have the ability to further adjust the modes than have a few extra lumens for a few more minutes.



You can turn it down as well though for longer runtimes. Plus, for me its more about heat then runtimes. Its nice to be able to adjust how hot the light gets.


----------



## recDNA

Tachead said:


> You can turn it down as well though for longer runtimes. Plus, for me its more about heat then runtimes. Its nice to be able to adjust how hot the light gets.


That's what I did. Not so much for run time but because my 62w and 32w both get HOT on H1 for more than a couple of minutes. I prefer them to run cooler and I really don't notice PID kicking in. Didn't notice it before. Don't notice it now. They still get hot too. I can't tell the difference. I would need an infrared thermometer or a light meter to detect PID and I have neither.

I followed the directions carefully. Whatever. They're fine.


----------



## newbie66

Tachead said:


> Yep, I contacted ZL about it and posted the emails further back in this thread and another one. All models produced since late 2012 have this feature.



Well, that is good. Surprising they did not market this feature much earlier.


----------



## snowlover91

newbie66 said:


> Well, that is good. Surprising they did not market this feature much earlier.



Which is what makes me wonder if they still read CPF. They used to have a profile on here that they posted with years ago and suddenly stopped, I have no idea why. Perhaps they still read to get our feedback and implement some of the suggestions. A few users had mentioned controlling the PID and ironically it appeared a few weeks later. I don't think they're really marketing it so much as they are putting it out there for us CPF users haha.


----------



## newbie66

snowlover91 said:


> Which is what makes me wonder if they still read CPF. They used to have a profile on here that they posted with years ago and suddenly stopped, I have no idea why. Perhaps they still read to get our feedback and implement some of the suggestions. A few users had mentioned controlling the PID and ironically it appeared a few weeks later. I don't think they're really marketing it so much as they are putting it out there for us CPF users haha.



I suspect that they do visit cpf from time to time. Probably using a different profile. Just my guess.


----------



## Equitymind

I received a shipping notice yesterday from ZL for my SC600 Mk III cool white with an expected delivery date on Friday, March 11th to Southern CA. I ordered on February 21st and they did follow up with a phone call a few days later to confirm the order. Can't wait! My first ZL.


----------



## sdr

Equitymind said:


> I received a shipping notice yesterday from ZL for my SC600 Mk III cool white with an expected delivery date on Friday, March 11th to Southern CA. I ordered on February 21st and they did follow up with a phone call a few days later to confirm the order. Can't wait! My first ZL.



Say, hey, my SoCal Broster!

Congrats on choosing this fantastic little light cannon as your first ZebraLight! I'm sure that you'll be blown away by how much area you can illuminate with this fantastic lil' light. I have carried an SC600 on my person everyday for more than 4 years. ZebraLight just continues to astound me with each new iteration. This one that you're expecting is the one that I currently carry ~ It's radiantly amazing! 

Please let us know what you think once you get your light, okay? 

In the meantime here's something for you to chew on...






*Don't leave home without one!*


----------



## newbie66

Equitymind said:


> I received a shipping notice yesterday from ZL for my SC600 Mk III cool white with an expected delivery date on Friday, March 11th to Southern CA. I ordered on February 21st and they did follow up with a phone call a few days later to confirm the order. Can't wait! My first ZL.



Getting your first ZL might take some getting used to because of the interface. A little complicated at first but becomes easy after a short while. I am waiting for my HI model too.


----------



## newbie66

sdr said:


> Say, hey, my SoCal Broster!
> 
> Congrats on choosing this fantastic little light cannon as your first ZebraLight! I'm sure that you'll be blown away by how much area you can illuminate with this fantastic lil' light. I have carried an SC600 on my person everyday for more than 4 years. ZebraLight just continues to astound me with each new iteration. This one that you're expecting is the one that I currently carry ~ It's radiantly amazing!
> 
> Please let us know what you think once you get your light, okay?
> 
> *Don't leave home without one!*



Gotta love ZL!


----------



## Equitymind

sdr said:


> Say, hey, my SoCal Broster!
> 
> Congrats on choosing this fantastic little light cannon as your first ZebraLight! I'm sure that you'll be blown away by how much area you can illuminate with this fantastic lil' light. I have carried an SC600 on my person everyday for more than 4 years. ZebraLight just continues to astound me with each new iteration. This one that you're expecting is the one that I currently carry ~ It's radiantly amazing!
> 
> Please let us know what you think once you get your light, okay?
> 
> In the meantime here's something for you to chew on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Don't leave home without one!*




Ok, thats is just awesome. I like the descending order of color (shades of gray) of anodizing. I hope mine gets here as dark as the one you got.


----------



## markr6

Equitymind said:


> Ok, thats is just awesome. I like the descending order of color (shades of gray) of anodizing. I hope mine gets here as dark as the one you got.



Yea I never liked the olive much. Fortunately they've been getting more consistent with the darker grayish color.


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> Yea I never liked the olive much. Fortunately they've been getting more consistent with the darker grayish color.



I'm the opposite. I like the more olive drab coloured ones more. Green is kind of their trademark(its in their logo) and it matches their headbands. I think grey is the accident and they are shooting for olive drab. Although even the more grey ones seam to still have a bit of green in them.


----------



## emarkd

I wouldn't claim to prefer either the older OD tints or the more grayish stuff they're doing lately, I'm just glad they're not black. I love Zebralights for lots of reasons, and one of those is definitely the finish. There's enough black lights on the market. I hope Zebralight never becomes one of them.

I guess my favorite is when things like this happen. This is my SC600w mk2. Its got a _very _uneven finish on one side that actually makes this Zebralight look like a Zebra (sorta  ). It goes all the way down the light but its easiest to see in the flat spots. Some folks would probably complain and call this a defect, and maybe it is, but I love it!


----------



## kj2

Mine has a very uneven finish as well. Even the 'cut-outs' in the knurling aren't the same. I don't mind. At night I see the light coming out, not the flashlight


----------



## snowlover91

I like the looks of the finish on that emarkd, sort of a carbon fiber appearance which is really cool! My SC62w has the darker grey finish but my MK3 HI and 63w are more of a light or medium grey in appearance.


----------



## newbie66

I prefer dark grey too. I won't mind much if finish is uneven as long as it works well.


----------



## TCY

selfbuilt's SC600 MKIII review is out.:thumbsup:


----------



## Aldiggi

It's insane how compact and powerful the MIII is.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

I hesitated posting to this thread until I actually had a MkIII in hand. I think the SC600 MkIII is a great little light. Some nice incremental improvements over the MkI and MkII.

I think the tint with the new LEDs is much nicer than any previous ZL lights. 
The button feels better and easier to activate from most angles.
The HA is pretty nice on mine - they don't use dye in the HA so there is bound to be variation in finishes due too subtle differences in metals between batches. 
The size, length weight to power ratio is just insane on the MkIII. 
The PID is spot on and works great.

The only complaint I have is the clip. I wish they would use a screw on clip on the SC600 lights like some of the other models.


----------



## fnsooner

I am still very happy with my 63w and the HI variant of the SC600. 


I let a guy at work carry my SC62w, that I have carried for a couple of years, to let him see if a more expensive light would be worth his while. When I asked him to give it back to me, he wanted to buy it. I told him that I wasn’t’ interested in selling it and that he should just wait until it or the 63 were back in stock. He then offered me seventy five dollars for it and I sold it to him.

That 5A tint Noctigon Meteor has been calling my name, so I cobbled together some more money to add to the 75 that he gave me and ordered the Meteor. I know, I know.

Somebody stop me.


----------



## sidecross

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> The only complaint I have is the clip. I wish they would use a screw on clip on the SC600 lights like some of the other models.


I used the clip from a Nitecore MH20 (I gave the light away and kept the clip) on my ZebraLight SC600 Mk3 which I have clipped to a side pant pocket. The Nitecore clip prevents the light from falling out; the ZebraLight lacked this ability.


----------



## sdr

This might have already been posted somewhere? But, if it hasn't, Zebralight has both cool white and neutral SC62's In Stock on their website right now. The new SC63 in cool white and neutral are both still on Back Order. 

Link: http://www.zebralight.com/


----------



## fnsooner

***Thanks for the heads up. I think this is the first time that they have had the SC62 in stock since they discontinued it and then sold them out. I wonder how long they will offer the 62. If they keep it available past tax day, I will probably pick another up. One of the greatest lights ever.

Shoot, I am thinking about buying another and then trading the guy at work to get my old one back.:shakehead:thinking:


----------



## mrg23

Sc600 mklll HI shows as in stock at zebralight website. That means mine should ship in the next day ot two. Ordered on 2/18. I hope my sc63w is close behind.


----------



## emarkd

I've tried to keep up so I apologize if this is already covered elsewhere, but what's the latest word on issues with the HI lights? Inductor whine? Battery rattle?


----------



## mrg23

From what I have read recently both issues have been corrected in the most recent lights.


----------



## Tachead

emarkd said:


> I've tried to keep up so I apologize if this is already covered elsewhere, but what's the latest word on issues with the HI lights? Inductor whine? Battery rattle?



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Light-SC63-and-variants-like-the-SC63w/page29

Post #869

I dont know if this applies to the HI as well or not but, the tolerance is extremely tight for cell compatibility on the MKIII lights and your cell must be within 0.2 of a mm. Plus, manufacturing tolerances could effect the fit from run to run.


----------



## snowlover91

emarkd said:


> I've tried to keep up so I apologize if this is already covered elsewhere, but what's the latest word on issues with the HI lights? Inductor whine? Battery rattle?



Issues have been fixed the only lights with any widespread issues were the initial MK3 preorders. Some dealers still have stock from this batch so if it were me I would order from ZL directly since they always have the newest ones in stock. No issues with recent batches from what I've seen. Battery fit is fine.


----------



## oneinthaair

Got my shipping notice today! After a month and 4 days.

For my SC600 MKIII HI
And
SC63w


----------



## markr6

Still contemplating the HI version...can't decide.


----------



## recDNA

markr6 said:


> Still contemplating the HI version...can't decide.


I would consider HI if throw is significantly better than the cool white mkIII. I'm really biding my time hoping the HI CRI version really comes out this summer. The thing is if it does it will sell out so probably can't hope to get one before Halloween.


----------



## markr6

recDNA said:


> I would consider HI if throw is significantly better than the cool white mkIII. I'm really biding my time hoping the HI CRI version really comes out this summer. The thing is if it does it will sell out so probably can't hope to get one before Halloween.



My fear is that Plus version will be so floody, that I'll want something else with more throw. I sure am looking forward to that one though!


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> My fear is that Plus version will be so floody, that I'll want something else with more throw. I sure am looking forward to that one though!



It should still have a medium amount of throw depending on the output. My H600Fc/d MKIII at 800/870 lumens still have a bit of throw and they have way smaller reflectors. Its more of a diffused hotspot type of beam style nowhere near as floody as the flood(02) models. I just hope the plus becomes offered in another warmer temp as well. 5000K is a bit cool for a lot of uses imo.


----------



## oneinthaair

Got my lights in today, I'll try to get some pictures up tonight. Seems like the HI will have a better throw for sure.

I really like the tint to. Doesn't have that Purpleish jade to it.


----------



## recDNA

I heard the HI has a yellow green halo. It will be interesting to see if yours is yellow. It doesn't matter outdoors but I hate yellow indoors.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I heard the HI has a yellow green halo. It will be interesting to see if yours is yellow. It doesn't matter outdoors but I hate yellow indoors.



My HI model has great tint, if Nichia were to get a perfect 10 for its tint quality I would give the HI I have a 9.5 it's that good. No ring just a nice transition to the hotspot with a great warm tint. Here is a beamshots below comparing the 219b at 90+ CRI with my MK3 HI. The Nichia is on the left. The background is a light tan color.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> I heard the HI has a yellow green halo. It will be interesting to see if yours is yellow. It doesn't matter outdoors but I hate yellow indoors.



The consensus seems to be that the HI has the best tint of the three(SC63w, SC600w MKIII, and HI). It is the SC63w and SC600w MKIII that have seen a bit of criticism regarding the tint.


----------



## JuRuKi

I had a chance to take my SC63w outdoors and i found the H2 to be a little too weak and the H1 to be a little too bright (heat was also an issue in H1, but i was expecting it). Is there a way to make my H2 a little brighter? I know there are sublevels but i think you can only make H2 dimmer.


----------



## Connor

JuRuKi said:


> I had a chance to take my SC63w outdoors and i found the H2 to be a little too weak and the H1 to be a little too bright (heat was also an issue in H1, but i was expecting it). Is there a way to make my H2 a little brighter? I know there are sublevels but i think you can only make H2 dimmer.



According to ZL you can have: H1 1126 Lm (PID, approx 2.2 hr) *or *H2 580 Lm (PID, 2.8 hr)/312 Lm (4.3 hr)/139 Lm (12 hr)


----------



## recDNA

snowlover91 said:


> My HI model has great tint, if Nichia were to get a perfect 10 for its tint quality I would give the HI I have a 9.5 it's that good. No ring just a nice transition to the hotspot with a great warm tint. Here is a beamshots below comparing the 219b at 90+ CRI with my MK3 HI. The Nichia is on the left. The background is a light tan color.


Thanks. A little too warm for me but definitely not yellow.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Thanks. A little too warm for me but definitely not yellow.



No problem! Yeah it is a little warmer, it's the warmest light I have but I actually like it. The SC63w has good tint too just not as good as the HI version, at least from my samples. My 63w isn't yellow though more like a neutral white with a hint of yellow in it. I would put the 63w around 4500-4600k and the HI version at 4200-4400k.


----------



## newbie66

Cool shots! Gives me some comfort knowing that the tint looks not bad. Waiting for my HI to arrive next week hopefully.


----------



## Connor

newbie66 said:


> Cool shots!


Whoa whoa, careful with the wording! :nana:


----------



## newbie66

Connor said:


> Whoa whoa, careful with the wording! :nana:




Sorry.

Nice beam shots!


----------



## ro.ma.

I would be happy to see some photos of the light beam of the sc600w HI.

It is convenient to have a little more throw and less lumens?


----------



## recDNA

ro.ma. said:


> I would be happy to see some photos of the light beam of the sc600w HI.
> 
> It is convenient to have a little more throw and less lumens?


Depends what you need. You want to flood a room or work on your car you don't need throw. If you want to scan 100 yards in front of you then throw is more important.


----------



## snowlover91

ro.ma. said:


> I would be happy to see some photos of the light beam of the sc600w HI.
> 
> It is convenient to have a little more throw and less lumens?



Look a few posts back where I compared it with a Nichia 219 emitter  For me I prefer the extra throw offered by the HI version and it's not too tight of a beam either.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

ro.ma. said:


> I would be happy to see some photos of the light beam of the sc600w HI.
> 
> It is convenient to have a little more throw and less lumens?



I don't have my older SC600 MK I or II any more to do a beamshot comparison side by side. But I can give an analogy which I hope helps.

My worst location every for using a flashlight ended up being the beach up on Cape Cod while visiting the in-laws. Any light you have which works great around the house, out in the garden, even for walks through the woods where it seems to do a good job lighting the trail and trees around will be swallowed up by the vast openness of the beach. This is what happened to me with my SC600 MK II. I thought this light was the greatest, super bright, lit up everything in and around my house like crazy. Brought it to the beach and all it did was light up the ground in front of me way to brightly and then get lost into the sand. What was the problem there - too much flood. There is absolutely nothing above the sand level to reflect light back to you so lights you think are good just vanish. 

The MK III HI version has more punch and less light in the flood to get light out there. It does a better job on that beach to see further into the nothingness. 

Is it perfect - no. But for size and weight ratio to anything I have with 40Kcd or higher and some real punch it definitely has an advantage. 

And as mentioned several times by many others I feel it's one of the best tints ZL has put out. It doesn't suffer from any of the chromatic aberration that all XM-L2 lights seem to suffer. The HI LEDs, in any light I've upgraded them to, have a very clean beam from spot to the edge of the flood.


----------



## markr6

Just a quick comparison at a short distance of about 8'. But you can already see a big difference on H2b modes.

*(SC600w HI @ 312lm, SC63w @ 360lm)*






SC600 HI is a great light!


----------



## newbie66

markr6 said:


> Just a quick comparison at a short distance of about 8'. But you can already see a big difference on H2b modes.
> 
> *(SC600w HI @ 312lm, SC63w @ 360lm)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SC600 HI is a great light!



:thumbup:


----------



## recDNA

I wish they redesigned the head and reflector a little for even more throw and tighter beam. We already have the mk3 flood. The head is wide enough for a tighter beam. Probably just needs a deeper reflector. I like the HI but just feel they haven't tapped it's full potential to throw and there really isn't any other reason to build the HI version.


----------



## Nuppet

I just got the SC63w and the tailcap does not have pogo pins but a spring. Is this an error in the assembly of the light. 

The spring seems to put quite some pressure on the battery (NCR18650GA).


----------



## emarkd

Nuppet said:


> I just got the SC63w and the tailcap does not have pogo pins but a spring. Is this an error in the assembly of the light.
> 
> The spring seems to put quite some pressure on the battery (NCR18650GA).



No, all the '63s seem to be made that way.


----------



## Nuppet

emarkd said:


> No, all the '63s seem to be made that way.



Thanks!


----------



## Sphinxxx

I have a silly question. Perhaps it has already been covered. 

In the details for the SC600w MKIII HI it says:
-Programmable PID thermal regulation temperature target value (existed in all lights with the PID thermal regulation feature since late 2012)

Does that mean the sc63 has the same capability? If so, has anybody tried that out? An extra 5 degrees Celsius would likely cure my reluctance to purchase!


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> I wish they redesigned the head and reflector a little for even more throw and tighter beam. We already have the mk3 flood. The head is wide enough for a tighter beam. Probably just needs a deeper reflector. I like the HI but just feel they haven't tapped it's full potential to throw and there really isn't any other reason to build the HI version.



Using a smooth reflector instead of the OP one would likely help with throw as well.


----------



## Tachead

Sphinxxx said:


> I have a silly question. Perhaps it has already been covered.
> 
> In the details for the SC600w MKIII HI it says:
> -Programmable PID thermal regulation temperature target value (existed in all lights with the PID thermal regulation feature since late 2012)
> 
> Does that mean the sc63 has the same capability? If so, has anybody tried that out? An extra 5 degrees Celsius would likely cure my reluctance to purchase!



Yes, it has the same capability(all models produced since late 2012 do including headlamps). I have tried it out on other models and it works well:thumbsup:


----------



## recDNA

Tachead said:


> Using a smooth reflector instead of the OP one would likely help with throw as well.


Not enough... And you would have a weird beam due to the 4 die led. Use the old mk2 body and use the extra length to make a deeper reflector. I have no problem with a smooth reflector I just don't think it would add enough throw to justify use of the HI.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

recDNA said:


> Not enough... And you would have a weird beam due to the 4 die led. Use the old mk2 body and use the extra length to make a deeper reflector. I have no problem with a smooth reflector I just don't think it would add enough throw to justify use of the HI.



Actually I disagree. Vinh handles cleaning up the beam in the XHP70 K60 light by de-doming the LED. The cross is exaggerated by the lens on the LED. Also the K70 used a XHP35 HI with a smooth reflector. I don't think the cross would be a problem. 

I do question how much extra throw a smooth reflector would give the setup versus a OP one. I think you would get a little bit, but not much.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Both the Cree XHP50 and XHP70 have small gaps between the four LEDs that make up an emitter. The XHP35 does not. 

In theory, this should mean that the beam from an XHP35 suffers fewer issues than those from the XHP50 and XHP70. Whether that is in fact the case I cannot say. As yet, I do not own any flashlights that use these emitters.


----------



## sidecross

KeepingItLight said:


> Both the Cree XHP50 and XHP70 have small gaps between the four LEDs that make up an emitter. The XHP35 does not.
> 
> In theory, this should mean that the beam from an XHP35 suffers fewer issues than those from the XHP50 and XHP70. Whether that is in fact the case I cannot say. As yet, I do not own any flashlights that use these emitters.


I have the Fenix TK35UE XHP50 with a similar orange peel reflector as the SC600 and the 4 parts of the LED is not visible 12 inches from an object.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> Not enough... And you would have a weird beam due to the 4 die led. Use the old mk2 body and use the extra length to make a deeper reflector. I have no problem with a smooth reflector I just don't think it would add enough throw to justify use of the HI.



It would help a bit though and it just seems that a smooth reflector is a more suited to a throwy HI emitter. XHP35 HI isnt a quad die. Ideally they would use a deeper smoother reflector. Even a bit of extra diameter wouldnt hurt.


----------



## Tachead

KeepingItLight said:


> Both the Cree XHP50 and XHP70 have small gaps between the four LEDs that make up an emitter. The XHP35 does not.
> 
> In theory, this should mean that the beam from an XHP35 suffers fewer issues than those from the XHP50 and XHP70. Whether that is in fact the case I cannot say. As yet, I do not own any flashlights that use these emitters.



Correct. The XHP35 HI will suffer none of the issues that the 50 and 70 have as it is not a quad die.


----------



## recDNA

That is good to know. I don't want a bigger head though. Plenty of lights with 1 inch heads out throw the ZL. Smooth reflector will help but ZL has very shallow reflector. I think a deeper reflector would help. Of course I would actually prefer an XP-L HI anyway to get even more throw. My main point is ZL makes lots of floody lights. A thrower would be nice. Personally I don't like big headed lights in my pocket so I would not like a wider head but a deeper head and longer body would be fine with me. We all have different preferences. I've been looking for a pocketable thrower for years and never found one I liked. I love the form factor and ui of ZL so I wish they would build it!


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> That is good to know. I don't want a bigger head though. Plenty of lights with 1 inch heads out throw the ZL. Smooth reflector will help but ZL has very shallow reflector. I think a deeper reflector would help. Of course I would actually prefer an XP-L HI anyway to get even more throw. My main point is ZL makes lots of floody lights. A thrower would be nice. Personally I don't like big headed lights in my pocket so I would not like a wider head but a deeper head and longer body would be fine with me. We all have different preferences. I've been looking for a pocketable thrower for years and never found one I liked. I love the form factor and ui of ZL so I wish they would build it!



It sounds like you might like the new MH20GT. It uses the XP-L HI, only has a slightly larger diameter head, has a much deeper smooth reflector, and Nitecore is claiming it will have 33000cd and 362m throw. Its looking like it could be one of the smallest furthest throwing lights on the market. The regular MH20 already is around the same throw as the MKIII HI(not yet measured) and beats the SC600 MKIII's throw and it only uses a regular old XM-L2 at 1000 lumens.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> It sounds like you might like the new MH20GT. It uses the XP-L HI, only has a slightly larger diameter head, has a much deeper smooth reflector, and Nitecore is claiming it will have 33000cd and 362m throw. Its looking like it could be one of the smallest furthest throwing lights on the market. The regular MH20 already is around the same throw as the MKIII HI(not yet measured) and beats the SC600 MKIII's throw and it only uses a regular old XM-L2 at 1000 lumens.



MH20 is rated for 12,500cd if I remember correctly. One member on here measured 17,000cd and another 19,000cd from the MK3 HI so if those numbers are accurate it is quite a bit better at throw compared with the MH20. The MH20GT version will probably be around 25,000 to 30,000cd range.


----------



## shilent

Got my SC63W and MKIII HI in today, my first Zebralights. 

After hearing so many great things about Zebralight's quality over the years, I'm disappointed in what I got. First thing I noticed, was the tailcap threads, feels like there's sand in it. This is easily fixable by cleaning and re-lubing, so not a problem there. Next thing I noticed, there's a scratch on my MKIII HI's reflector. Doesn't affect the beam, so I was thinking of just keeping it. Then while using them at night when it got colder, my SC63W inside lens fogged up, there's moisture in there.

Both are going back to Zebralight.


----------



## sdr

Wow! What a shame you had to have such a horrible experience with your first ZL's. I would be terribly bummed and probably not too inclined to give them a second chance. 

I'm batting a thousand with the 4 Zebralights that I've purchase. I still own and use 3 of 'em. I have never had any problem, aside from leaving one on the seat of a city bus. That hurt!

Did you purchase your lights directly from Zebralight? Do you intend to ask for replacements, or a refund? I hope you'll let us know how this goes for you. And, I wish you much better luck with your future purchases - Whether they be with ZL or another manufacturer. 

Getting bad merchandise just plain sucks! Regardless of who or where it comes from.


----------



## shilent

sdr said:


> Did you purchase your lights directly from Zebralight? Do you intend to ask for replacements, or a refund? I hope you'll let us know how this goes for you. And, I wish you much better luck with your future purchases - Whether they be with ZL or another manufacturer.


Thanks.

I ordered directly from Zebralight. I've asked for an exchange, I'm gonna give them a second chance. I'll post back when I get my replacements.


----------



## psychbeat

Tachead said:


> Correct. The XHP35 HI will suffer none of the issues that the 50 and 70 have as it is not a quad die.





The XHP35 is a quad die FYI. 
The chips are closer together tho than with the 50&70 or mtg.


----------



## KeepingItLight

Right. 

Because the dies are separated on the XHP50 and XHP70, they can be wired as 2S2P or 4S1P. The former are the 6-volt versions of those emitters; the latter are the 12-volts ones. The XHP35, on which the dies are not separated, comes only in a 4S1P, 12-volt version.


----------



## markr6

I don't think it's a problem with the SC600 HI (XHP35). I can only notice the FAINTEST artifact at close range on a wall...like 4' away. No problem at all. And the reflector is a VERY light OP which may help. Being smooth I don't think you would see any more throw...at least not noticeable to the naked eye.


----------



## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> MH20 is rated for 12,500cd if I remember correctly. One member on here measured 17,000cd and another 19,000cd from the MK3 HI so if those numbers are accurate it is quite a bit better at throw compared with the MH20. The MH20GT version will probably be around 25,000 to 30,000cd range.



I wasnt looking to debate with you snowlover91, I was just making a suggestion to recDNA. All comparison measurements are moot unless both lights are measured by the same person/device. That's why I said "not yet measured" and I did say "around". Either way, there cant be a huge difference as the MH20 out throws the regular SC600 MKIII(remember too it uses an older emitter and has 360 lumens less output). It just has a more throw based design vs the flood design ZL have. You have no idea what the MH20GT will throw, that is all speculation. The regular MH20 throws better then its specs in independent tests.


----------



## Tachead

psychbeat said:


> The XHP35 is a quad die FYI.
> The chips are closer together tho than with the 50&70 or mtg.



O, ok. It appears to be one die in the pictures on Cree's spec sheet and says nothing about it being a quad die that I saw. Either way, even if it is a quad die, it should perform the same way a single die will as they are so close together you cant even see the spaces(should be little to no X effect).


----------



## markr6

Tachead said:


> O, ok. It appears to be one die in the pictures on Cree's spec sheet and says nothing about it being a quad die that I saw. Either way, even if it is a quad die, it should perform the same way a single die will as they are so close together you cant even see the spaces(should be little to no X effect).



VERY close. I can't tell unless I use one of the two lowest modes. The only thing I can see in the beam is a very faint star-type pattern. I can't really describe it; like blades on a fan. You don't even see it unless you spin the light on a wall...so seriously, you really have to look for it.


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> VERY close. I can't tell unless I use one of the two lowest modes. The only thing I can see in the beam is a very faint star-type pattern. I can't really describe it; like blades on a fan. You don't even see it unless you spin the light on a wall...so seriously, you really have to look for it.



Thanks for the description Mark:thumbsup:. I dont own a XHP35 so it is nice to know what the beam profile is like.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> I wasnt looking to debate with you snowlover91, I was just making a suggestion to recDNA. All comparison measurements are moot unless both lights are measured by the same person/device. That's why I said "not yet measured" and I did say "around". Either way, there cant be a huge difference as the MH20 out throws the regular SC600 MKIII(remember too it uses an older emitter and has 360 lumens less output). It just has a more throw based design vs the flood design ZL have. You have no idea what the MH20GT will throw, that is all speculation. The regular MH20 throws better then its specs in independent tests.



I agree it hard to know unless they're both measured on the same device but at least we know initial figures put the MK3 HI at 17-19k cd which is pretty good. MH20 is rated at 12,500cd but probably throws closer to 15-17k cd based on what I've read and seen. Both are similar lights for sure in regards to throw and size too. The reason I think the MH20GT will have around 25-30k cd in throw is because my experience with Nitecore (the EA41) indicates their throw figures are a little overrated for their lights above 20k cd. I'm not sure if it's their equipment or what the cause is but many of their lights rated above that number tend to be 3-5k cd lower than spec. Still, 25-30k cd in the MH20GT is good if it's a small compact light. It's amazing how far lights have advanced in recent years and the LED tech. I'm still waiting for a good 90+ cri 18650 light putting out 800+ lumens, hoping ZL comes through with the MK3 Plus edition and some SC63 variants for that too.


----------



## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> I agree it hard to know unless they're both measured on the same device but at least we know initial figures put the MK3 HI at 17-19k cd which is pretty good. MH20 is rated at 12,500cd but probably throws closer to 15-17k cd based on what I've read and seen. Both are similar lights for sure in regards to throw and size too. The reason I think the MH20GT will have around 25-30k cd in throw is because my experience with Nitecore (the EA41) indicates their throw figures are a little overrated for their lights above 20k cd. I'm not sure if it's their equipment or what the cause is but many of their lights rated above that number tend to be 3-5k cd lower than spec. Still, 25-30k cd in the MH20GT is good if it's a small compact light. It's amazing how far lights have advanced in recent years and the LED tech. I'm still waiting for a good 90+ cri 18650 light putting out 800+ lumens, hoping ZL comes through with the MK3 Plus edition and some SC63 variants for that too.



Fair enough. I agree. I do look forward to some measurements of the MH20GT though. You should try a triple too, I believe there are many small 90+ CRI 18650, even 18350, lights with significantly more then 800 lumens using Nichia 219B emitters.

Here is a titanium triple for $89 that gets over 2200 lumens at 90+ CRI.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42914

There are many more examples/choices too.

If you dont mind a bit larger 2x18650 light, with better runtime and heatsinking, you could do an emitter swap on a Nitecore EA4S and have a pretty sweet 4000K or 4500K(your choice)XHP50 powered 90+ CRI light. I have been tempted to try this myself.


----------



## Tachead

shilent said:


> Got my SC63W and MKIII HI in today, my first Zebralights.
> 
> After hearing so many great things about Zebralight's quality over the years, I'm disappointed in what I got. First thing I noticed, was the tailcap threads, feels like there's sand in it. This is easily fixable by cleaning and re-lubing, so not a problem there. Next thing I noticed, there's a scratch on my MKIII HI's reflector. Doesn't affect the beam, so I was thinking of just keeping it. Then while using them at night when it got colder, my SC63W inside lens fogged up, there's moisture in there.
> 
> Both are going back to Zebralight.



Wow, I am really not digging this poor QC trend lately with ZL. Its starting to remind me of the old days. Hopefully ZL will tighten things up. I wonder if they are rushing a bit too much due to the demand for the new models lately? Because their QC had seemed to be better over the last couple of years.

My H600Fc MKIII came with a few chips in the anodizing too. Come on ZL, slow down and get things right before shipping. You are not selling budget discount store lights here and even they usually come without flaws


----------



## scs

Tachead said:


> ...My H600Fc MKIII came with a few chips in the anodizing too. ...



An A-A rep told me imperfections in ZL anodizing is common.

I don't know how to respond. Lower my expectations?

The H600Fw I had also had missing ano, and it appeared very thin.


----------



## Tachead

scs said:


> *An A-A rep *told me imperfections in ZL anodizing is common.
> 
> I don't know how to respond. Lower my expectations?
> 
> The H600Fw I had also had missing ano, and it appeared very thin.



Sorry, what is an A-A rep? 

Yeah, its unacceptable really and most other companies seem to have no trouble with anodizing.

Sorry to hear about that. My other ZL headlamp was fine but this one had a couple small chips right down to the bare aluminum. 

If it wasnt for ZL's efficient drivers, likeable UI, and a couple of other desirable qualities, I dont think many people would put up with some of the issues they have. It took me years to even want to risk trying one myself. I finally did because their QC appeared to have improved but, I'm starting to think its going downhill again. I like the ones I have so far but, dont have a lot of faith in their dependability and QC.

I like your sig line. It seems applicable to this discussion lol.


----------



## scout24

Would you please post pics of the ano chips for reference?


----------



## Tachead

scout24 said:


> Would you please post pics of the ano chips for reference?



I dont use any photo hosting sites anymore, does this forum support Tapatalk photo hosting? I could get the app again.


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## emarkd

Host it at imgur


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## Tachead

emarkd said:


> Host it at imgur



Thanks. 

That was a lot of work just to post a picture for "reference". O well now I can post pics. It was surprisingly hard to get a good macro pic with a cellphone. Sorry, that's the best I could get with the daylight fading. There is another spot on the tailcap too.


----------



## Tachead

Here is another, not much better though.


----------



## scs

Tachead, Andrew-Amanda.

On the other hand, I dropped my H52Fw and dented one of the fins, yet the ano at that spot looks intact.
I want to say the ano on the H52Fw is thicker and harder.
I remember that the ano on my H600Fw felt thin. The parts missing ano looked like they had been made by scuffing


----------



## Tachead

scs said:


> Tachead, Andrew-Amanda.
> 
> On the other hand, I dropped my H52Fw and dented one of the fins, yet the ano at that spot looks intact.
> I want to say the ano on the H52Fw is thicker and harder.
> I remember that the ano on my H600Fw felt thin. The parts missing ano looked like they had been made by scuffing




Right, thanks:thumbsup:

Yeah, they have some of the tougher/nicer anodizing when they put it on right

One of my H600's has thicker ano as well and one is a bit thin. One is more olive drab and the other is more slightly greenish grey. The colour differences dont bother me much although I prefer the olive colour better as green is kind of ZL's colour.


----------



## sidecross

I might be "old school" but my Surefire 6P scratched very easily but the light still worked and that is all I cared about.

I am not a collector I use my flashlights as tools for making the darkness visible. 

While I do appreciate how some might see a flashlight as an object of art using high grade materials and machining to design an object of beauty, I am not in that category.

I think there is room for me and others; people who have a service use for quality tools along side those who are more concerned with an artistic side of tool making.


----------



## Tachead

I dont get why they have so much trouble with anodizing? Some of the other brands with similar durable anodizing dont seem to have so many issues(Elzetta, Armytek, exc.). I can deal with colour variation between batches , although preferably all the parts match on a particular light but, there is just no reason for blotchy anodizing, thin anodizing, missing anodizing, scratches, chips, exc.


----------



## Tachead

sidecross said:


> I might be "old school" but my Surefire 6P scratched very easily but the light still worked and that is all I cared about.
> 
> I am not a collector I use my flashlights as tools for making the darkness visible.
> 
> While I do appreciate how some might see a flashlight as an object of art using high grade materials and machining to design an object of beauty, I am not in that category.
> 
> I think there is room for me and others; people who have a service use for quality tools along side those who are more concerned with an artistic side of tool making.




I care about performance and reliability first and foremost as well.

I am not a collector either, I dont even own many flashlights and I use all my tools harder then the average person due to my lifestyle. I do take very good care of my stuff though and try to keep things in good shape even when being used hard.

I am not in that category either although I am a tradesman so I do appreciate a well made anything really and notice imperfections more then most. 

You seem to be forgetting that these issues we are talking about came that way out of the box. When I buy something brand new, especially when it is a high end/high dollar item, I expect it to be free of flaws and defects out of the box. Even if it is a hammer lol. There is no excuse for any company to ship flawed, scratched, chipped, damaged, exc. products to their customers.


----------



## gunga

Yep. I agree. My Zebralights have been pretty good lately but one had a weird circuit defect and needed replacement.


----------



## sidecross

Tachead said:


> I dont get why they have so much trouble with anodizing? Some of the other brands with similar durable anodizing dont seem to have so many issues(Elzetta, Armytek, exc.). I can deal with colour variation between batches , although preferably all the parts match on a particular light but, there is just no reason for blotchy anodizing, thin anodizing, missing anodizing, scratches, chips, exc.


I think part of the problem is most anodizing is done in black using a dye making it easier to make consistent, even coated, and easier to spot a flaw in the process. ZebraLight does not do this; they have a fondness for their particular color style.


----------



## snowlover91

Yeah out of the box I wouldn't want a light, especially a $60 or more one, to have scratches or specs of ano missing. I'd rather put it there myself through using it lol. It would seem the high demand for their lights is outpacing their ability to fully QC their lights going out. Hopefully they get this resolved soon!


----------



## Tachead

sidecross said:


> I think part of the problem is most anodizing is done in black using a dye making it easier to make consistent, even coated, and easier to spot a flaw in the process. ZebraLight does not do this; they have a fondness for their particular color style.



I dont think adding dye effects those properties much. Remember that Type III anodizing is not a coating. It is chemically changing the surface of the metal and creating an oxide layer. Colour consistency is always hard, thickness is determined by the current density and time in the chemical bath, and flaws are generally created by imperfections in the machining and/or poor part cleanliness prior to the process(you had me thinking back to aerospace manufacturing class there I hope that is clear/accurate enough, its been a while).

I have a couple of other flashlights that are Type III clear/undyed and they have no issues at all. So, I think the issue is with the process/company that ZL uses.


----------



## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> Yeah out of the box I wouldn't want a light, especially a $60 or more one, to have scratches or specs of ano missing. *I'd rather put it there myself through using it lol.* It would seem the high demand for their lights is outpacing their ability to fully QC their lights going out. Hopefully they get this resolved soon!



Lol, me too. I hate it when that happens though but, it is kind of a battle wound:rock:.


----------



## sidecross

Tachead said:


> So, I think the issue is with the process/company that ZL uses.


ZebraLight is outsourcing their anodizing to be done in the U.S.A.


----------



## emarkd

sidecross said:


> ZebraLight is outsourcing their anodizing to be done in the U.S.A.



Source? I know Zebra did try to move some of their production steps to the US a couple of years ago but, as far as I know, that didn't go well and they moved it all back to China. Supposedly they still source some materials from here, like Alcoa aluminum, but its all built overseas. But I'd love to know if that's not true.


----------



## sidecross

emarkd said:


> Source? I know Zebra did try to move some of their production steps to the US a couple of years ago but, as far as I know, that didn't go well and they moved it all back to China. Supposedly they still source some materials from here, like Alcoa aluminum, but its all built overseas. But I'd love to know if that's not true.


My source was a Selbuilt review saying that ZebraLight was doing this; hopefully Selfbuilt may have further information if this is present tense or past tense situation.


----------



## KeepingItLight

sidecross said:


> My source was a Selbuilt review saying that ZebraLight was doing this; hopefully Selfbuilt may have further information if this is present tense or past tense situation.




I remember seeing that, too. It might have been in his review of the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. II L2*. Here is a link that goes directly to his comments about anodizing in the associated YouTube review.


----------



## Tachead

Even if they are using a US based anodizing company, I think they need to tell them to up their quality and consistency or find a new company. Checking each body as they put the electronics in would go a long way too. There is no real excuse to be letting bodies with cosmetic flaws ship to customers in this day and age.


----------



## Glock27

It doesn't seem plausible that anodizing would be done in the US. They would have to ship the machined bodies back and forth across the pond...

G27


----------



## markr6

My SC600 HI has a spot or two that is darker near the switch, almost like a stain, but it's permanent. I like the light so much I don't care, but it is the first time I had a problem with anodizing.


----------



## shilent

Got my replacement SC63W in (still waiting for MKIII HI), and it's looking really good. No moisture in the lens, tailcap is smooth, and tint is great. 

The first SC63W I got was a lemon. Not only was there moisture in the lens and rough tailcap, it had an ugly green tint. Reminded me of my Olight S10. And now it flickers on L1. 

Question for ZL owners, what is that clear rubber/silicone like material near the part where the tailcap and body makes electrical contact? All three of my lights have it, and it's coming off.

Question for SC63 owners, I don't see any anti-reflective coating on both of mines. Is this normal? I do see the coating on my MKIII.


----------



## markr6

shilent said:


> Question for ZL owners, what is that clear rubber/silicone like material near the part where the tailcap and body makes electrical contact? All three of my lights have it, and it's coming off.
> 
> Question for SC63 owners, I don't see any anti-reflective coating on both of mines. Is this normal? I do see the coating on my MKIII.



I don't see that material near the tailcap. Could it be excess lube for the threads? And just like my SC62w, I can't see any noticeable AR coating on my SC63w. But all my 600 series Zebralights were very obvious with the magenta/purplish color.


----------



## snowlover91

shilent said:


> Got my replacement SC63W in (still waiting for MKIII HI), and it's looking really good. No moisture in the lens, tailcap is smooth, and tint is great.
> 
> The first SC63W I got was a lemon. Not only was there moisture in the lens and rough tailcap, it had an ugly green tint. Reminded me of my Olight S10. And now it flickers on L1.
> 
> Question for ZL owners, what is that clear rubber/silicone like material near the part where the tailcap and body makes electrical contact? All three of my lights have it, and it's coming off.
> 
> Question for SC63 owners, I don't see any anti-reflective coating on both of mines. Is this normal? I do see the coating on my MKIII.



Glad to see the new 63w is working out well for you! I'm guessing what you're seeing at the tailcap is simply the lubricant used by ZL, it's a grayish or sometimes clear material on the threads and with time it wears off. Really the only maintenance for these lights is to occasionally use pure silicone grease or something similar on the o-ring. My 63w I can't see any purple AR coating but it appears there is a hint of green on the lens. Perhaps they are using a different type of coating for the 63w.


----------



## shilent

snowlover91 said:


> Glad to see the new 63w is working out well for you! I'm guessing what you're seeing at the tailcap is simply the lubricant used by ZL, it's a grayish or sometimes clear material on the threads and with time it wears off. Really the only maintenance for these lights is to occasionally use pure silicone grease or something similar on the o-ring. My 63w I can't see any purple AR coating but it appears there is a hint of green on the lens. Perhaps they are using a different type of coating for the 63w.


Doesn't feel like lube. Feels like some type of silicone sealant or glue. And more comes off every time I take the tailcap off. 

It's difficult to get picture of it, but see below:













It's not between the threads, only near the end where it makes electrical contact.


----------



## Connor

I'd say lubricant, possibly dried lubricant, too. 
Clean it thoroughly and relube.


----------



## snowlover91

Yeah that's the lubricant they use on their lights mine looks the same way. I usually leave it on there for awhile or wipe it off and put a fresh coat of silicon grease on the o-ring and a tiny bit on the threads.


----------



## scintillator

I do not have this light "YET" but I probably will when I can find one.
Just wanted to say that might be NO-OX-ID A-Special Electrical Grade Conductive Grease.
Just thinking that since this light must carry a few amps through this end of the light and
oxidation could degrade performance.
just my 2cents


----------



## scintillator

I have searched high and low and I can not find any conductive grease that is clear so 
the lube is probably not electrically conductive.


----------



## shilent

Turns out my replacement SC63W is another dud.

The PID on mines is screwy. It was working fine the first 3 days. I had it set to the highest, but now instead of lowering its brightness when hot, it just blinks every 3 seconds and gets crazy hot. I tried setting PID back to default, no change. Played it with a bit, tried changing PID back to default 2nd time, now it's behaving differently. In H1, the brightness ramps down very quickly, the light is barely warm. When the brightness ramps down, placing the light in cold water does nothing. Before, I was able to just pick up the light, and my hand would remove heat and I would see it get brighter.

H1 now has a high pitched whine.

L1 is now flickering like my first.

I'm going to send it back for a refund, and cancel my MKIII HI replacement order. I'm done with Zebralight. Maybe I'll give them another shot next year.


----------



## Tachead

shilent said:


> Turns out my replacement SC63W is another dud.
> 
> The PID on mines is screwy. It was working fine the first 3 days. I had it set to the highest, but now instead of lowering its brightness when hot, it just blinks every 3 seconds and gets crazy hot. I tried setting PID back to default, no change. Played it with a bit, tried changing PID back to default 2nd time, now it's behaving differently. In H1, the brightness ramps down very quickly, the light is barely warm. When the brightness ramps down, placing the light in cold water does nothing. Before, I was able to just pick up the light, and my hand would remove heat and I would see it get brighter.
> 
> H1 now has a high pitched whine.
> 
> L1 is now flickering like my first.
> 
> I'm going to send it back for a refund, and cancel my MKIII HI replacement order. I'm done with Zebralight. Maybe I'll give them another shot next year.



Did you try making sure the tail cap is good and tight? You could try cleaning the bare aluminum end of the tube above the threads where it makes contact. Sorry your having trouble.


----------



## shilent

Tachead said:


> Did you try making sure the tail cap is good and tight? You could try cleaning the bare aluminum end of the tube above the threads where it makes contact. Sorry your having trouble.



Yes, tailcap is tight, tried a different battery, and thoroughly cleaned everything.

Here's a video of what it's doing. Sometimes the PID will work, and sometimes it does this:

Edit: That's 86 degrees Celsius by the way.


----------



## akhyar

Wow!
86 deg Celcius is just too hot to touch


----------



## snowlover91

shilent said:


> Turns out my replacement SC63W is another dud.
> 
> The PID on mines is screwy. It was working fine the first 3 days. I had it set to the highest, but now instead of lowering its brightness when hot, it just blinks every 3 seconds and gets crazy hot. I tried setting PID back to default, no change. Played it with a bit, tried changing PID back to default 2nd time, now it's behaving differently. In H1, the brightness ramps down very quickly, the light is barely warm. When the brightness ramps down, placing the light in cold water does nothing. Before, I was able to just pick up the light, and my hand would remove heat and I would see it get brighter.
> 
> H1 now has a high pitched whine.
> 
> L1 is now flickering like my first.
> 
> I'm going to send it back for a refund, and cancel my MKIII HI replacement order. I'm done with Zebralight. Maybe I'll give them another shot next year.



Hmmm very strange indeed. Perhaps something in adjusting the PID may have caused some type of software bug/glitch like you're experiencing? I would contact ZL and see if they have any suggestions and maybe send them a link to the video you took.


----------



## newbie66

Strange indeed. Maybe might have better chance with the HI instead?


----------



## Tachead

shilent said:


> Yes, tailcap is tight, tried a different battery, and thoroughly cleaned everything.
> 
> Here's a video of what it's doing. Sometimes the PID will work, and sometimes it does this:
> 
> Edit: That's 86 degrees Celsius by the way.



Definitely stop using the light man. That is a dangerous temperature. No Zebralight should ever get hotter then 57C even with the PID turned all the way up(52C was the highest factory setting they have used for the PID system). Most lithium batteries are only rated for 60C max so you are risking a catastrophic failure at those temperatures. Also, certain components in the light can be damaged if temp gets above 85C. 

Send the light back to ZL, there is definitely something wrong with it. Sorry you have had such bad luck. There has been too many issues with new ZL's lately. I think they may be rushing because of the demand and their QC has been spotty at best. I personally will not be buying any more of their lights until the demand slows down and I stop reading constant reports of issues.


----------



## scout24

Sorry to hear! Your light worked for three days? I think factory QC did it's job, and yours just has a bum component on the board. I'd wager they will address it via warranty just like their other lights. I think snowlover91 had the best suggestion. Please keep us posted. Like everything electrical or mechanical, stuff can break.


----------



## Tachead

scout24 said:


> Sorry to hear! Your light worked for three days? *I think factory QC did it's job*, and yours just has a bum component on the board. I'd wager they will address it via warranty just like their other lights. I think snowlover91 had the best suggestion. Please keep us posted. Like everything electrical or mechanical, stuff can break.



I dont think I would exactly say QC is doing its job. Remember this is the third light he has had to send back(every one he ordered and this one is the one ZL sent as a replacement). And, another posted got a dud and then received another flawed light for a replacement just a couple weeks ago. Not to mention the several customers, including me, that received lights with anodizing flaws including blotches, scratches, chips, and missing patches. And, this has all happened in the last month or so and that's just the ones reported here on CPF(there are more on other sites). People say other companies have issues too, they do, but go look at some of the other long threads about new released lights from other manufactures. You wont find anywhere near the issues even over years with most of them as we have seen with these ZL ones in weeks. Also, remember that companies like Fenix and Nitecore(just for example) cost less and sell many, many more lights so you would think you would see more reports. ZL really needs to get their act together. They are starting to remind me of the early years of their company again. It's unacceptable to have this many issues in so little time with lights that cost as much as these do imo. Its sad too because they make some really great lights when/if you get a good one.


----------



## snowlover91

In this case though I'm not sure what else ZL could have done. They sent him a light that worked perfectly fine with no issues, he even was able to use it for 3 days and it worked fine. It seemed like the issues could be related to something that went bad on the circuit board or it could be software related also since the person was trying to change the PID and after that is when things went bad. Maybe it was a software glitch that somehow turned the PID off. Also sometimes electronics just do go bad randomly. I've seen $1000+ computers that work fine for a few days when suddenly something like the HD or other component will go bad. It happens sometimes and in this case ZL sent him a working light so I'm not sure what else they could have done. Either way if it were me I would contact ZL and see what they recommend.


----------



## scout24

Agreed snowlover. Thank you. I'm sure after three, they'll still replace or issue a refund if that's what solves the issue for shilent.


----------



## sidecross

I am no electrical engineer, but the picture shows the flashlight in a strong electromagnetic field could this be part of the problem?


----------



## Tachead

snowlover91 said:


> In this case though I'm not sure what else ZL could have done. They sent him a light that worked perfectly fine with no issues, he even was able to use it for 3 days and it worked fine. It seemed like the issues could be related to something that went bad on the circuit board or it could be software related also since the person was trying to change the PID and after that is when things went bad. Maybe it was a software glitch that somehow turned the PID off. Also sometimes electronics just do go bad randomly. I've seen $1000+ computers that work fine for a few days when suddenly something like the HD or other component will go bad. It happens sometimes and in this case ZL sent him a working light so I'm not sure what else they could have done. Either way if it were me I would contact ZL and see what they recommend.



To me it makes no difference if it was a QC issue, production issue, or software issue. It is just another failure/defect to add to the list this last month or so alone. It just gives me less faith in ZL and their reliability/QC in general. Like I said, go read some of the other long threads on other manufactures lights. You just dont see near this many issues even over much more time and their production numbers far exceed ZL's. Zebralight may have some great ideas and even some of the best electronic designs in the industry but, I think they also have some of the highest failure/defect rates of any company. I thought they had gotten better and finally felt comfortable enough to try them after years of watching their products but, never did due to all the issues. Now I am starting to regret my decision. I dont have a lot of faith in there lights but, at least I have two so I have a backup if one fails so I dont get stranded in the dark in the back country.

I will report how they perform after I put them through their paces this spring/summer/fall. They will be used a lot in the next months in all conditions as I have a lot of back country trips planned.


----------



## Tachead

sidecross said:


> I am no electrical engineer, but the picture shows the flashlight in a strong electromagnetic field could this be part of the problem?



Many(most) modern quality speakers are magnetically shielded and it is unlikely that would cause an issue with a lights electronics anyway. Many lights come with a rare earth magnet right in the body.


----------



## scout24

Failures can occur with everything. Tachead- what kind of vehicle do you drive? Year make model?


----------



## Tachead

scout24 said:


> Failures can occur with everything. Tachead- what kind of vehicle do you drive? Year make model?



That is true. It is just frustrating to see so many issues with ZL as of late when they do have some other desirable qualities. These threads have been riddled with issues over the last while while other manufactures threads havent(not to mention ZL's past history). I pretty much feel the same about Armytek and now put ZL in the same category as them(high risk companies that dont inspire confidence in their company or products). I dont see what vehicles have to do with lights. Yes, I know they have issues too(I was a mechanic for many years). The problem is ZL is a small company and imo has far to many problems considering the small number of lights they sell. It's ok though if you dont agree. We all have a right to our own opinions. 

I will give the Zebralights I have a go this year though as appose to selling them as I like a lot of their features and it is hard to find other lightweight headlamps with reasonable CRI, tints, and runtimes.


----------



## sidecross

"Is the glass half full or half empty?"

To some people it is no longer a question, but how much faster will
the 'half empty glass' be drained.

Dogma usually exists in the absence uncertainty.


----------



## snowlover91

Tachead said:


> To me it makes no difference if it was a QC issue, production issue, or software issue. It is just another failure/defect to add to the list this last month or so alone. It just gives me less faith in ZL and their reliability/QC in general. Like I said, go read some of the other long threads on other manufactures lights. You just dont see near this many issues even over much more time and their production numbers far exceed ZL's. Zebralight may have some great ideas and even some of the best electronic designs in the industry but, I think they also have some of the highest failure/defect rates of any company. I thought they had gotten better and finally felt comfortable enough to try them after years of watching their products but, never did due to all the issues. Now I am starting to regret my decision. I dont have a lot of faith in there lights but, at least I have two so I have a backup if one fails so I dont get stranded in the dark in the back country.
> 
> I will report how they perform after I put them through their paces this spring/summer/fall. They will be used a lot in the next months in all conditions as I have a lot of back country trips planned.



Oh I have read threads for other lights and I've seen plenty of issues with them too. I'd rather not go OT talking about other companies and focus on discussing the light at hand. I agree ZL has had a little more QC issues as of late than normal probably due to high demand (or maybe shifting production to US, if indeed they are). My 63w and MK3 3 HI have been rock solid and I've already dropped my 63w twice on asphalt and it still is working fine. My 62w from a year ago is working great also. The most impressive example is the sc32w I gave my dad last year. It's on his keychain and gets dropped on hard surfaces like concrete on a weekly basis. Outside of a few dents/dings all over the light it works perfectly fine after 1 year of abuse not to mention the anodizing is still intact on most of the light. I think you'll find ZL lights are quite reliable and what I've found in electronics is that if a failure occurs it's usually instantly or within a few days. This is widespread across the industry whether it's computers, solid state drives, etc. I personally think the issue with the 63w described above was something software related in an attempt to change the settings.


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## scout24

My point with your vehicle was to look on Alldata and see how many open recalls and technical bulletins were out there for your vehicle affecting safety, performance, fit and finish, etc. Yet, we hop in them, drive at absurd speeds, and not give the company's or model's record a second thought. That is after spending considerably more money on a vehicle than a flashlight. I just left service after working as a union mechanic for 22 years, mainly on US built or branded vehicles. As a result, I drive Toyotas and Hondas. The quality is light years better, but my Tundra for example has roughly two pages of recalls and TSB's out on it. I don't continually bash Toyota, question it's durability or reliability, or look for validation of my opinion. I get in it, drive it, and if it breaks it gets fixed. I do this knowing I could have spent more, less, gotten a truck made elsewhere, etc. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion. I, and others, are entitled to a similar platform and opportunity for ours.


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## sidecross

scout24 said:


> My point with your vehicle was to look on Alldata and see how many open recalls and technical bulletins were out there for your vehicle affecting safety, performance, fit and finish, etc. Yet, we hop in them, drive at absurd speeds, and not give the company's or model's record a second thought. That is after spending considerably more money on a vehicle than a flashlight. I just left service after working as a union mechanic for 22 years, mainly on US built or branded vehicles. As a result, I drive Toyotas and Hondas. The quality is light years better, but my Tundra for example has roughly two pages of recalls and TSB's out on it. I don't continually bash Toyota, question it's durability or reliability, or look for validation of my opinion. I get in it, drive it, and if it breaks it gets fixed. I do this knowing I could have spent more, less, gotten a truck made elsewhere, etc. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion. I, and others, are entitled to a similar platform and opportunity for ours.


I worked as a factory trained mechanic with authorized dealers for Toyota and Mercedes Benz; Toyota had much fewer problems starting with Pre-Delivery Inspection. The quality control for Mercedes Benz was very poor.

Both Toyota and Mercedes Benz did have good quality servicing any problem the consumer did have. Most problems were taken care of to the owners satisfaction.

Any product will have problems in mass production; it is how the problem is resolved that should be of concern to the consumer.


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## scs

If the light works out of the box, then it's not a QC issue, but QA issue.
Simply put, QA = defect prevention, and QC = defect identification.


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## TheRealSpinner

Any more updates to problems with the current batches? I'm currently waiting on an SC600w MK III HI and an SC63w (ordered directly from ZebraLight). I should have the SC63w friday (according to USPS tracking, but it hasn't moved for two days, so we'll see).

As far as the MK III HI, ZL said it would be shipped "next week" (I placed the order 2.5 weeks ago when it was on backorder; I asked when it would ship, they said 2 weeks; when that 2 weeks came, I asked again for an update, and they said it would ship next week). :shrug:

Looking forward to compare them with my standard SC600w MK III, as well as my h602w. :naughty:


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## TA_ls1

TheRealSpinner said:


> Any more updates to problems with the current batches? I'm currently waiting on an SC600w MK III HI and an SC63w (ordered directly from ZebraLight). I should have the SC63w friday (according to USPS tracking, but it hasn't moved for two days, so we'll see).
> 
> As far as the MK III HI, ZL said it would be shipped "next week" (I placed the order 2.5 weeks ago when it was on backorder; I asked when it would ship, they said 2 weeks; when that 2 weeks came, I asked again for an update, and they said it would ship next week). :shrug:
> 
> Looking forward to compare them with my standard SC600w MK III, as well as my h602w. :naughty:



I ordered my SC600 MK III HI last week Monday I think, and asked about the wait time later in the week. The told me this last Sunday that it's about 2 weeks which would put it at about next week. Hopefully soon as I'm very excited as well.


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## SubLGT

Tachead said:


> To me it makes no difference if it was a QC issue, production issue, or software issue. It is just another failure/defect to add to the list this last month or so alone. It just gives me less faith in ZL and their reliability/QC in general. Like I said, go read some of the other long threads on other manufactures lights. You just dont see near this many issues even over much more time and their production numbers far exceed ZL's. Zebralight may have some great ideas and even some of the best electronic designs in the industry but, I think they also have some of the highest failure/defect rates of any company….



Your comments seem more appropriate for Armytek than Zebralight.  I own flashlights from both brands.


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## Cobraman502

Just got my SC600w MK III HI. I absolutely love the UI. I thought it would be hard to get used to but not at all. I quality of the light is excellent. Even the threads came pre lubed. The light puts out an amazing amount of light at about 1126 lumens. I find the hot spot rather nice with the large spill makes this light multi functional for me. 

The lower lumen levels are great for when you need to find something at night and don't want to blast your night vision. 

I thought I size of the light head would be to large for EDC but because of the length it's manageable. The clip seems strong and keeps the light in place.


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## Drift Monkey

So is there any update on if they'll do a run of the MK III/SC63 with the 90+ CRI XHP35s, or are those still incredibly hard to source?


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## markr6

Drift Monkey said:


> So is there any update on if they'll do a run of the MK III/SC63 with the 90+ CRI XHP35s, or are those still incredibly hard to source?



No XHP35 that I know of. But the SC600Fd III Plus model is expected in August. That's an XHP50, but should be nice with the 93-95CRI @ 5000K. Sounds perfect on paper! We'll see what happens...


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## Drift Monkey

markr6 said:


> No XHP35 that I know of. But the SC600Fd III Plus model is expected in August. That's an XHP50, but should be nice with the 93-95CRI @ 5000K. Sounds perfect on paper! We'll see what happens...



Hopefully they put that in a headlamp...that would be perfect!


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## twistedraven

It'd be cool if they could make a headlamp with slightly more thermal mass to accommodate for the xhp-50 hi cri. I've never been too keen on flashlights with floody beams; I feel those should be reserved for headlamps.


If I could get like just one XHP-35 High Intensity HI CRI, and let Vinh put it into the SC600 HI, that'd be pretty cool, but as I understand Zebralights are pretty impossible to mod.


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## moldyoldy

one comment on Zebralight cell sizing - tight and somewhat variable. Some cells of nominally the same size designation will not fit because of a slightly longer length. Excessive cell length has caused weird problems with ZL light operation for me, both now and in the past.

eg: The ZL SC600 III accepts only unprotected cells. Protected cells are simply too long. The unprotected 18650 cells from ZL fit just fine. The pogo-tabs simply do not have the compliance for protected cells. 

eg: Even the SC52 and H52 lights differ. My copy of the SC52 light will barely accept a Keeppower 14500 840maH cell but will function correctly. The ZL 14500 cell fits and functions correctly. An Eneloop fits and functions correctly.

Compare that with my copy of the H52 light: Only the ZL 14500 cell will fit and function properly. or Eneloops. The Keeppower 14500 840maH cell causes random functioning, sometimes flashes, sometime proper operation, sometimes nothing. I surmise that the excessive length of the Keeppower cell compresses the head or tail-cap sufficiently to cause intermittents. The Eneloop is clearly shorter than either Keeppower or ZL 14500s. The Keeppower is maybe 1 mm longer than the ZL 14500, but that is sufficient to cause difficulty in tightening the end cap and functionality.

There are plenty of comments on CPF about this or that 18650 not fitting in this or that light model - even w/in a brand. ZL is no different.


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## Drift Monkey

moldyoldy said:


> eg: The ZL SC600 III accepts only unprotected cells. Protected cells are simply too long. The unprotected 18650 cells from ZL fit just fine. The pogo-tabs simply do not have the compliance for protected cells.



From what I understand this was a deliberate decision. The new lights are much more compact at the cost of only being to use flat top, unprotected cells. This is fine by me as ZLs have excellent internal regulation anyway...I'd personally choose smaller overall size over protected cells.

Those that have stocked up on protected cells may not feel the same way...


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## TCY

Vinh sells the original MKIII as he explained in one of his videos that he just can't bring in any modifications to the light as everything is perfect. Don't know if that means he can still swap the LED inside though.


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## wolfgaze

TCY said:


> Vinh sells the original MKIII as he explained in one of his videos that he just can't bring in any modifications to the light as everything is perfect. *Don't know if that means he can still swap the LED inside though*.



If he could I would love to send him one and pay him to swap the factory emitter with a Nichia 219B...


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## Drift Monkey

wolfgaze said:


> If he could I would love to send him one and pay him to swap the factory emitter with a Nichia 219B...


Seems like that would defeat the all the hard work ZL put into boosting their latest lights to work with the XHP35. Why not just ask him to swap it with a 90+ CRI XHP35?


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## wolfgaze

Drift Monkey said:


> Seems like that would defeat the all the hard work ZL put into boosting their latest lights to work with the XHP35. Why not just ask him to swap it with a 90+ CRI XHP35?



I wasn't previously aware of that emitter option... What would be the differences in performance between the two (Nichia 219b & XHP35 90+ CRI)... Thanks....


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## twistedraven

The Cree would be outputting a lot more lumens, and have higher CRI overall, while the Nichia would probably still win out in deep red rendering (R9).


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## Drift Monkey

wolfgaze said:


> I wasn't previously aware of that emitter option... What would be the differences in performance between the two (Nichia 219b & XHP35 90+ CRI)... Thanks....



Apparently they are somewhat hard to source...otherwise we might see them from the factory from ZL. Still, it would be pretty sweet.

twistedraven covered the differences spot on. I'd personally prefer the XHP35 (HI) 90+ CRI for this application. If you could source one Vinh may be able to do it.


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## wolfgaze

twistedraven said:


> The Cree would be outputting a lot more lumens, and have higher CRI overall, while the Nichia would probably still win out in deep red rendering (R9).





Drift Monkey said:


> Apparently they are somewhat hard to source...otherwise we might see them from the factory from ZL. Still, it would be pretty sweet.
> 
> twistedraven covered the differences spot on. I'd personally prefer the XHP35 (HI) 90+ CRI for this application. If you could source one Vinh may be able to do it.



Thanks for the replies and feedback (I'm learning as I go)...


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## Bluebloa

Tachead said:


> We are talking about the battery issue in particular here man. That has to do with marketing nor innovation. People have a right to criticize it when other lights that cost 1/3 as much dont have this issue. Zebralight makes some great lights and are always near the top in performance and efficiency but, they could definitely improve in the product testing and quality control side of things. I cant remember the last new ZL product release that didnt at least have some kind of teething issues. You just dont see this many issues with many other companies near as often. Even companies that sell their lights for half or one third the price.


Here is some picture about the tail cap of SC600w mk3 HI I just bought. I am waiting from Zebralight to solve it. 
http://imgur.com/a/HlKFL?desktop=1


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## markr6

Bluebloa said:


> Here is some picture about the tail cap of SC600w mk3 HI I just bought. I am waiting from Zebralight to solve it.
> http://imgur.com/a/HlKFL?desktop=1



That's crazy!


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## Bluebloa

markr6 said:


> That's crazy!



Zebralight has sent me a new tail cap. Good CS


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## markr6

Bluebloa said:


> Zebralight has sent me a new tail cap. Good CS



Glad to hear it!


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