# Help needed to choose an appropriate torch



## Talster (Dec 28, 2009)

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum so apologizes if I have posted in the wrong section.

My main uses are these.

I like to go out wildlife spotting, this involves me mainly walking alongside a river and observing wildlife (foxes, deer etc) in a field over the other side of the river . These are normally 600-700 feet away and I am unable to get into the field, so I require a long range beam, once I have the wildlife illuminated I want to observe them with my binoculars, so need a decent amount of light has my Leica binoculars have 50mm lenses. I also do walk across open fields and wooded areas observing too, but my main observation is across the river and into the field I have mentioned first.

I have had a read on the net and also on the forum. I firstly considered the LED LENSER X21. But I believe that bright though it is, it will only be 100 percent brightness for the first few hours and then gradually dim? This is important to me because ideally I want a torch that will give me 100 percent brightness from the first time I switch it on, until the battery level becomes flat. 

I have also looked at the Wolf Eyes Boxer 24 watt and the the Jetbeam MX1. I believe these two are regulated, and if I am correct, this will mean that I will get 100 percent brightness all the time until the batteries become flat? I believe that the battery life is not long on these two (1 hour for the Wolf Eyes and 3hours with use of the extended tube on the Jetbeam). So if I were to go for the Wolf Eyes I would need to purchase a second set of batteries to carry around with me and possibly a charger. 

Also, regarding the Wolf Eyes Boxer, I see that the batteries are 2200 mah, I saw some batteries on some site that had a higher mah. Would I gain any extra battery life by using these higher mah in the Wolf Eyes than what was originally in, or would I not be able to use the higher mah batteries in the Wolf Eyes?

My criteria would be that I would need to have a torch that had a long range beam (this is really important) and also one that would provide me with 100 percent brightness all of the time until the batteries become flat. I realise HID's do need 30 seconds or so to reach full brightness.

Can anyone recommend any torches that would exceed my needs. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## AEHaas (Dec 28, 2009)

I own this light:

http://www.batteryjunction.com/class1div1-aex25-ep.html

It has an optional 1800 lumen bulb and has optional filters of all sorts. It is the only one I know of that runs for over 2 hours at full brightness and has a good ratio of spot to spill in my book.

It comes with both an a/c and a 12v charger, full case and carrying strap. It is hard to beat for the outdoors.

Only the Polarion at 5X the price will outdo it - as I see it !

aehaas


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## BVH (Dec 28, 2009)

In my opinion, you will need a 30+ Watt HID and about a 4" reflector to significantly light up a wide field of view 600+ feet distant. You did not mention if a conventional flashlight style light was a must. If not, I would recommend either the Battery Junction.com N30 or L35, both of which are due to be back in stock in the near future. The L35 is Lithium powered and significantly lighter than the N30 (which is powered by Nimh) but they both produce similar amounts of light - about 2800 to 3000 Lumens. The L35 has a run time of about 95 to 100 minutes and can be charged via AC and DC/auto adapters. It also has a 7-led array light in the handle that is plenty bright to get you back home after the HID depletes the battery.


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## Talster (Dec 28, 2009)

Thanks for the help and advice its appreciated.

Has I mentione earlier, I have been looking at the Jetbeam M1X, http://www.flashaholics.co.uk/jetbeam/jetbeam-m1x.html it seems to have good specifications and it is considerable cheaper than other torches I have mentioned.

Has anyone got/used the Jetbeam M1X and what are your opinions of it?

Has anyone else got any other recommendations/advice?


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## Talster (Dec 28, 2009)

Regarding what I mentioned earlier about the LED LENSER X21.



> it will only be at 100 percent brightness for the first few hours and then gradually dim'



Has anyone got any experience and opinions if this is the case with the X21?


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## Talster (Dec 29, 2009)

bump my post


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## ScottFHall (Dec 29, 2009)

I certainly love my Sunforce 25,000,000 candlepower HID spotlight--there is a thread to read for all my comments and others. It has a strap on it--like a guitar strap--so theoretically, you could hang it from your shoulder while it lights the view ahead and you'd be free to hold binoculars up with _two_ hands. I'm going to find out tonight how it does illuminating the opposite riverbank here--1 mile away.


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## Talster (Dec 29, 2009)

Just been reading about the Wolf Eyes Super Storm. 

Has anyone seen or used one of these and if so what are your opinions of it. Also, would this provide the range I would need (600 ft or so) or would the Wolf Eyes Boxer provide more distance?


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## Talster (Dec 30, 2009)

Just been reading about the Wolf Eyes Super Storm. 

I have been thinking that perhaps a HID torch/spotlight might not be the most useful for me. The reason I say this is because I have read that these can take 15-30 seconds to reach their full brightness, and with me wanting to spot light wildlife, the 15-30 second delay might mean that the wildlife has moved away during this warm up period.

So I have been looking at the Wolf Eyes Superstorm which seems to be a superb torch and still relatively compact, has anyone seen or used one of these and if so what are your opinions of it. Also, would this provide the range I would need (600 ft or so) or would the Wolf Eyes Boxer provide more distance?

Regarding my comment about the warm up period of the HID, would you imagine that this would cause a problem regarding the usage I would be using the torch for?


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## Talster (Dec 31, 2009)

Regarding the Wolf Eyes Superstorm.

What is the regulation like on the Wolf Eyes Super Storm? Will I get 100 percent brightness out of it from been fully charged until the batteries run flat.

Also, will I get the desired 600-700 feet range out of the Wolf Eyes Superstorm?


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## Patriot (Dec 31, 2009)

Talstar before I get too technical, how long are these walks down by the river that you take?


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## Talster (Jan 1, 2010)

Patriot said:


> Talstar before I get too technical, how long are these walks down by the river that you take?



Perhaps an hour, or so. Whichever torch I would get, I would probably get a second set of batteries. I would also take my current torch (LED LENSER P7) to use to see where I am going and then when I get to the area I would use the new torch (whatever that would be).

I have been looking at some beam shots of the Polarion PH40 and was utterly amazed at it, converting the price from US dollars to British pounds puts it a over £1300  which is a bit out of my price range at present, but what an amazing bit of kit. It would be excellent if I could get matching the performance of the Polarion PH40 but a fair bit cheaper, but I think I am expecting a bit much . 

I read on the Polarion website that 'Polarion HID searchlights are considered "instant" strike and DO NOT require this warm-up period. The Polarion HID Searchlights can be turned ON and OFF rapidly as well without an concern for damage to the system'.


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## Patriot (Jan 1, 2010)

If your walks are limited to around an hour just run the HID continuously and refer to post #3 as there were some great suggestions there. The alternative is the Polarion which you stated was out of your price range.  

Also, most 35W and higher HID's produce sufficient lumens within a few seconds to be fairly effective. While the Polarion warms up far quicker than any other HID, it's still just an electro-mechanical piece of hardware and possibly more subject to eventual failure the more on/off cycles it's put through. If you turn it on and off 20 or 30 times each time you walk it won't take long to put thousands of cycles on your light. As tough as the Polarion is most of us who have put forth a sizable investment probably wouldn't run them like that, or at least I wouldn't. 

If for some reason you can't run the light continuously and there's no way around this very frequent switching, you might look at a large incandescent spotlight or a powerful multi-led light like the WiseLED 2000. They don't provide the same output and performance as HID but some types will still give great performance and won't mind being switched on and off repeatedly. 

For videos of HID warm up times, search Patriot36 on youtube, then playlists, then "Portable Lighting" I've posted a few different types there.


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## Talster (Jan 1, 2010)

Patriot said:


> If your walks are limited to around an hour just run the HID continuously and refer to post #3 as there were some great suggestions there. The alternative is the Polarion which you stated was out of your price range.
> 
> Also, most 35W and higher HID's produce sufficient lumens within a few seconds to be fairly effective. While the Polarion warms up far quicker than any other HID, it's still just an electro-mechanical piece of hardware and possibly more subject to eventual failure the more on/off cycles it's put through. If you turn it on and off 20 or 30 times each time you walk it won't take long to put thousands of cycles on your light. As tough as the Polarion is most of us who have put forth a sizable investment probably wouldn't run them like that, or at least I wouldn't.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the help its appreciated. I'll have a look at the WiseLED 2000 that you mentioned. But I have found that with living in the UK that there is certain lights that are only available from the US and I have heard that there is sometimes Customs Fees to be paid, so ideally I would prefer to get the light from the UK if possible, but I will consider this more when I find the eventually light I would purchase.

It would seem that I would be better with a multi LED light. I had been looking at the Wolf Eyes superstorm and was impressed at the output and the relatively compact size still, which seems a very good output judging by the beam shots.

Regarding the Wolf Eyes Superstorm.

What is the regulation like on the Wolf Eyes Super Storm? Will I get 100 percent brightness out of it from been fully charged until the batteries run flat.

Also, will I get the desired 600-700 feet range out of the Wolf Eyes Superstorm? 



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=3220205
Thanks for the help I really appreciate it


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## Talster (Jan 1, 2010)

I have been having a read on the WiseLED 2000, but I do not like the fact that the battery is in built into it and when you need to change the rechargeable battery it can only be done through a WiseLED certified Service Center.

I have also read that there can be a noticeable drop in brightness with the WiseLED after a short time because it doesn't appear to be regulated.

An important thing for me is to have a torch that provides me with 100 percent brightness when fully charged, and for this 100 percent brightness to remain until the batteries become flat, is this possible?

The other torch that I have been looking at that seems to provide a excellent output is the Wolf Eyes Superstorm. I would be extremely interested to hear what the regulation is like on this, i.e. would it provide the 100 percent brightness when fully charged, and for this 100 percent brightness to remain until the batteries become flat that I am really wanting?


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## Talster (Jan 1, 2010)

What would illuminate the 600-700 feet area more/best between the Jetbeam M1X or the Wolf Eyes Superstorm?


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## Talster (Jan 1, 2010)

Regarding the Wolf Eyes Superstorm and the Jetbeam M1X.

What is the regulation like on the Wolf Eyes Super Storm and the Jetbeam M1X, which is better?


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## Talster (Jan 1, 2010)

I am ideally wanting a light that will give me 100 percent brightness when fully charged and for this 100 percent brightness to remain until the batteries run flat. Is this possible?


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## Talster (Jan 1, 2010)

Also, will I get the desired 600-700 feet range out of the Wolf Eyes Superstorm and the Jetbeam MX1?

Thanks for the help I really appreciate it


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## Patriot (Jan 2, 2010)

Talster said:


> Also, will I get the desired 600-700 feet range out of the Wolf Eyes Superstorm and the Jetbeam MX1?




Useful beam range is completely subjective Talster. If often talked about but rarely understood the same way between two people. What does it mean to shine 200 yards? Tough question. If there were standards of lux or candelas it would probably help but there aren't. Lighting up animals in their natural habitat will not be easy at 600' with the M1X and I can't speak for the Wolf eyes. It would probably do pretty well at 300-400 feet though on a dark night. Also, it depends on how good you want to see them. 600-700' is HID range imo, if you're trying to observe animals and see them well.


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## Talster (Jan 2, 2010)

Erm, its a tough one. I will have to take into account if I can have the torch running for a decent amount of the time rather than perhaps switchng on/off a lot, as you mentioned that it wouldn't take long to put thousands of cycles on the bulb/light. And the last thing I want to do is shorten the life of an expensive torch/light. But to get my range it would appear that I may need an HID light to achieve this.

I had looked at the suggestions on post 3, but the thing that put me off a bit was that I had read that the battery on the N30 L35 can take 20 hours to fully charge from flat.

Admittedly the L35 looks an excellent light, but I am limited with living in the UK to the amount of torches available over here, and looking around on the net, it seems that the L35 is sold in the US, they would probably ship to the UK but I don't like the sound of Customs tax, it seems difficult to find out if or how much I would be charged for this. So ideally a torch that I could obtain from a UK seller would be more preferred for me.


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## Talster (Jan 2, 2010)

Has I could not guarantee that I wouldn't have to turn on/off at regular intervals, I think a LED light would be the best choice.

But would it be possible to get a LED torch to provide me with the range/illumination/distance that I would require, or is this simply not possible at this time with LED technology?


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## Talster (Jan 2, 2010)

I had thought that the Jetbeam MX1 wouldn't be able to match the performance of the Wolf Eyes Superstorm, due to it been considerable less expensive than the Super Storm. 

I can obtain the Wolf Eyes Superstorm and other makes too from a UK shop, so perhaps a good idea for me would be to shortlist two torches that they sell, and perhaps order two of them, try them both and see if any provide me with the required performance that I need. If one is found to provide me with the desired performance, I could then return the other one.

Here's the site that I found which seems to sell a decent choice of brands/types of torches etc. I would really appreciate any suggestions from the range of torches that they sell.

http://www.flashaholics.co.uk/


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## Talster (Jan 2, 2010)

I would be interested to know how the regulation is on the Superstorm, because an important factor which would determine my choice would be, that I need a torch that provides 100 percent brightness when fully charged and for this 100 percent brightness to remain until the battery went flat. I have been unable to find any details/charts/graph showing the regulation on the Superstorm.

The reason I want this is because at present I hve the LED LENSER P7, which provides a bright output when new Alkaline batteries are installed, after a few hours the light level noticeable drops. So the torch I would purchase, would not have to perform like this.


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## Egsise (Jan 2, 2010)

Talster said:


> Regarding what I mentioned earlier about the LED LENSER X21.
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone got any experience and opinions if this is the case with the X21?


Led Lenser X21 brightness drops to 50% in ~50 minutes.
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/julkinen/2bcy8+vesa-led-lenser-uk-leatherman-testissa.html


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## Talster (Jan 2, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Led Lenser X21 brightness drops to 50% in ~50 minutes.
> http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/julkinen/2bcy8+vesa-led-lenser-uk-leatherman-testissa.html



Thanks for that, although I couldnt get the site in your link to show it in english 

Definetely think now that the X21 would not be the torch for me, because I am wanting a torch that will provide 100 percent brightness when fully charged and for this 100 percent brighness to remain until the batteries go flat, that's if this is possible or am I asking too much?


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## Patriot (Jan 2, 2010)

Talster said:


> Erm, its a tough one. I will have to take into account if I can have the torch running for a decent amount of the time rather than perhaps switchng on/off a lot.



That pretty much solves the problem, especially if your walks are less than the average runtime of the spotlight. 




> But would it be possible to get a LED torch to provide me with the range/illumination/distance that I would require, or is this simply not possible at this time with LED technology?


For your uses through binoculars, I doubt it.  I have some experience with these types of formulas. One of the problems becomes the illuminated atmosphere that you're looking through. The option is to run two tripods further apart but then you have to walk back to the tripod with the light to adjust it. 2-3 meters of separation helps a lot but it can be inconvenient. 



> What is the regulation like on the Wolf Eyes Super Storm and the Jetbeam M1X, which is better?


The Super Storm isn't that well known or popular around CPF. I don't think the regulation has been tested. Search the reviews though regarding regulation and run-time.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230019



> I had thought that the Jetbeam MX1 wouldn't be able to match the performance of the Wolf Eyes Superstorm, due to it been considerable less expensive than the Super Storm.


Price along is not a good measuring stick for performance. The formula of the light is a better indicator. Multi-reflector LED's typically provide more overall output but less throw than a single LED with large reflector. At some point though, if you combine enough LED's and reflectors together they'll eventually surpass the throw of the larger reflector. This takes a lot of LED's though so size and battery capacity become a major factor. Most people hear dislike large clumsy LED lights.


Like you stated, it's pointless to continue asking us what the best lights are if you unable or unwilling to deal with the import taxes. Pick the two best candidates you have available to you and purchase them. You'll know shortly if they'll do the job or not. With that said, many in the UK have purchased HID lights from US dealers.


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## Talster (Jan 2, 2010)

Patriot said:


> That pretty much solves the problem, especially if your walks are less than the average runtime of the spotlight.
> 
> 
> For your uses through binoculars, I doubt it.  I have some experience with these types of formulas. One of the problems becomes the illuminated atmosphere that you're looking through. The option is to run two tripods further apart but then you have to walk back to the tripod with the light to adjust it. 2-3 meters of separation helps a lot but it can be inconvenient.
> ...



Thanks very much for the help its really appriciated.
I think the best option is to purchase two, try them and return the unsuitable one


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## BVH (Jan 2, 2010)

Talster, for me anyway, it would make for a more enjoyable and easier read in this thread, if you would edit to add to your posts when you need to add something to a just posted post instead of posting 2 and 3 times within minutes of eachother. Just a suggestion.


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## Patriot (Jan 3, 2010)

BVH said:


> Talster, for me anyway, it would make for a more enjoyable and easier read in this thread, if you would edit to add to your posts when you need to add something to a just posted post instead of posting 2 and 3 times within minutes of eachother. Just a suggestion.



+1

It would make it much easier.


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## Talster (Jan 3, 2010)

Ok sorry about that 

I just thought that posting individual posts with points/questions on seperately would maybe make it easier for people who just wanted to reply to a certain question, post etc.

Thanks for all the help its much appreciated : )


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