# Surefire Z3 combat light to LED conversion



## SC-Texas (Jan 6, 2014)

Just pulled my old Z3 combat light from the safe 

I would like to replace the P90 Incan. WTO a LED.

what are my options? Anyone done this and have suggestions?


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## m4a1usr (Jan 6, 2014)

Your only limiting factor is your budget. You can add a Malkoff M91. Good choice. Spendy but awesome. Illumination Supply or EDC has a drop in. Cheaper but still well built. Then there is the new Sportac P60 drop in's. They have triples as well as singles. And the prices are extremely good for the quality of build. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?377224-SPORTAC®-P60-drop-ins-©2014-Eagtac-LLC


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## SC-Texas (Jan 6, 2014)

Honestly, budget isn't an issue. 

Ill look at the m91


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## SC-Texas (Jan 6, 2014)

It's a P90 in the z3


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## SC-Texas (Jan 6, 2014)

Please pardon my ignorance. I'm new at this


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## bagman (Jan 6, 2014)

I run a M91 in a bored out 3 cell Surefire body, excellent light. You should be able to fit 2x 17500 li-ion batteries in your Z3 for guilt free lumens


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## Grizzman (Jan 7, 2014)

Other high end options come from TorchLAB, in the form of their triples. Cool XP-G2, neutral XP-G2, or Nichia 219 are offered. Choose between single mode, low medium high, or high medium low.

The hardest part is finding what is wanted in stock.

Having said that, the Malkoff M91AW is an awesome choice.


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## archimedes (Jan 7, 2014)

SC-Texas said:


> ....what are my options? Anyone done this and have suggestions?



Lots and lots of options, especially if not limited by price 

My personal choice would also be the Malkoff M91.

If you wanted totally custom ... *vinhnguyen54* can build to your exact specifications.


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## tobrien (Jan 8, 2014)

yeah the Malkoff M91A(W) is quite a nice drop-in to start out with


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## Redhat703 (Jan 8, 2014)

If you are using primaries, either M61x or M91x will serve you well. For li-ions, the 2*17500 will power M61x or M91x without any problem, but the 3*16340 can only run M91x due to higher voltage.
If you are using AA batteries, buy M31x and enjoy it with either 2*AA, 2*Eneloop, or 2*lithium AA.
Just that for now, and :welcome:


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## Grizzman (Jan 8, 2014)

Here are a couple more very nice neutral options that enjoy high voltage:

Malkoff M61N SHO and M61 SHO 219

I don't use mine nearly often enough.


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## sween1911 (Apr 1, 2014)

Just stumbled on your thread... I run my Z3 with (2) AW 17500's and a Malkoff M61. Guilt-free lumens and great performance all around.


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## SC-Texas (Jan 16, 2017)

After two years I finally got around to ordering a few bulbs to try out in the Z3.

1. 
*M91BW Dropin to fit Surefire 9P × 1*
Default
*$69.99*



Generic 1000 Lm 5-Mode XM-L T6 LED Bulb for Surefire 6p 9p D2 D3 E2 G2 501 USA
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151849385613

*Descriptions:
* *This XM-L T6 LED provides a maximum brightness at about 1000 lumens.
*LED highly reliable, high quality, with an average life of 100,000 hours. 
*5-Mode: High / Med / Low / Strobe / SOS
*(With last mode memory, after switched off for 2-3 seconds, it begins with the last mode used)
*Size:26.5 mm (Diameter)
*37 mm (Length) excluding outer spring.
*Working voltage: 3.6V-4.2V

*Compatible with the following flashlights:
*(Outer spring is removable to fit certain flashlights)
*Surefire 6p, 9p, D2, D3, E2, G2, M2, Z2, Z3
*Ultrafire WF-501, WF-502, WF-503, G60, G90, 
*Solarforce/Spiderfire L2, L2+, L2++
*G&P T-6, T-9, R12
*HUGSBY C2
*Mxpower 103B 


Solarforce XM-L Cree T6 500 Lumens Led Bulb 3.7V - 8.4V for Surefire 6P G2

Which will work best in the Z3? Anyone have any experience with the non malkoff brand bulbs?


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## sween1911 (Jan 22, 2017)

I've had good luck with Nailbender, Lumens Factory, Solarforce, and Malkoff units. I've become a tint snob, so my personal favorites are Malkoff M61N (neutral tint) or Nailbender neutral tint units.

You've got a great starting point. The Z3 is one of my favorite designs. I sold mine awhile back. Open head, take out P90, drop in the LED module, screw head back on. You may want to remove outer spring of the LED unit (negative contact that makes contact with flashlight body when closed) if the head doesn't close.

2 of the 17500 lithium-ion cells will perfectly replace the 3 CR123's. 

In the 3-cell body you can also use a single-cell spacer and a 16650 or 17670 battery that are the same length as 2 CR123's. Might not be enought voltage for the M91 though. I ran a Malkoff M61 with a spacer and a 17670 in my Z3. I currently have a Nailbender XPG2 drop-in and a 17670 battery in my 6P.

(edit: just realized I already posted in this thread right before yours years ago! Lol!)


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## Grizzman (Jan 22, 2017)

The preferred unit will depend greatly on how the light is used. The single mode is best if it'll be used in a tactical role...one output, with no possibility to accidentally activate the wrong (or the REALLY wrong) mode. The multi-mode option would be best if the light will be used in a general around the home role.

I personally consider high output (SHO and M91) Malkoffs best suited to hosts that allow for a low output mode, like Malkoff and Elzetta.


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

Okay. The malkoff arrived. Interesting tint. Ots orange like an incandescent. Not as bright as expected but it is perfect for use in a house or yard. It literally throws it being that lights up the entire room

Malkoff 






Surefire P90 





Malkoff





Surefire P90


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

Not sure what I was expecting. But it does not seem as bright as I thought it would be


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

Both


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## Kestrel (Jan 23, 2017)

SC-Texas said:


> Not sure what I was expecting. But it does not seem as bright as I thought it would be


That M91 does seem to be really lighting up the entire room - the P90 is only satisfactorily illuminating one small spot. 
An M91 is a 'floody' design; they never do look quite as impressive as the one small bright 'spot' of a thrower - but is far more useful for most applications.

-----

A bit of history for context:

When Malkoff went from the M60 to the M61/91 models, one revised component was the new reflector design.

The newer series has considerably more flood; many (including me) has found these much more useful for general use - this of course reduces the 'spot' intensity (i.e. maximum lux).

The 61/91's do not have quite the reputation of the 60's (or other larger-reflectored dropins) for 'throw', and did receive some small initial criticism_ in this specific aspect_ before getting general market acceptance as being a substantial improvement over the 60-design.

-----

Edit: The way I have looked at it:


My prior car flashlight contained the M60LL; an adequate hotspot with very little spill. Fantastic runtime.
I replaced that dropin with a higher-output M61L; a comparable hotspot to the M60LL but with much more spill - far more useful IMO. All of the increase in output of the new single-L went into the spill, not the hotspot; with a modest loss of runtime.

Edit #2: A comparison to the P90 that you're doing is a bit of a tough one: the P90 incan lamp assembly was a pretty epic bulb for its time - on fresh cells, it will have nearly *double* its listed output, IIRC.


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

I completely agree with your thoughts on the flood vs. Spot. It is amazing that it can light up the entire room and still through a blinding spot


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

This just came in. It doesnt work. Its stuck on a very low output. It briefly cycled through a few modes before it locked up.

















It never looked as good as the malkoff.


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

Any thoughts on resetting it? Is that possible?


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## archimedes (Jan 23, 2017)

How many volts did it see ... ?


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

archimedes said:


> How many volts did it see ... ?


How do i find that number?

3 cr123s


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## archimedes (Jan 23, 2017)

SC-Texas said:


> How do i find that number?
> 
> 3 cr123s


That's 9V .... That plus " working voltage of 3.6 V - 4.2 V " likely =  (sorry)


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

Lol. Well they said it could be used in a z3. Crap


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

So 2 x cr123s should be good?

Time to learn on cheap bulbs


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## archimedes (Jan 23, 2017)

Hopefully you still have the Malkoff ...


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## Grizzman (Jan 23, 2017)

The specified Working Voltage of 3.6 - 4.2v is hardly compatible with a Z3 or 9P without a spacer to take up excess body length.

At least is wasn't expensive.


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## archimedes (Jan 23, 2017)

Sometimes the "specs" on $7 dropins are ... hmmm ? :thinking: 



And just a point of terminology ... strictly speaking, for LED, these aren't "bulbs" , but "emitters" ( or "dropins" )



And actually, for incandescent, "lamps" are the preferred term, as the "bulb" is (again, strictly speaking) the glass envelope


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## archimedes (Jan 23, 2017)

And 2x CR123A (in series) is 6V ... still too much


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

Grizzman said:


> The specified Working Voltage of 3.6 - 4.2v is hardly compatible with a Z3 or 9P without a spacer to take up excess body length.
> 
> At least is wasn't expensive.


Lol. True


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Hopefully you still have the Malkoff ...


Why of course.


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## SC-Texas (Jan 23, 2017)

archimedes said:


> And 2x CR123A (in series) is 6V ... still too much


Now i wonder what that bulb is supposed to work in


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## kosPap (Jan 24, 2017)

Surefires with a single 16650/17670 battery (do you get the dimensions?) and in surefire inspired lights like the solarforces...


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## Kestrel (Jan 24, 2017)

Grizzman said:


> [...] At least it wasn't expensive.


Actually, $7 /is/ expensive for nothing, and nothing is what those dropins are worth, IMO.

Anything of high quality is a bargain, while cheap [email protected] is always too expensive.


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## SC-Texas (Jan 24, 2017)

Kestrel said:


> Actually, $7 /is/ expensive for nothing, and nothing is what those dropins are worth, IMO.
> 
> Anything of high quality is a bargain, while cheap [email protected] is always too expensive.


Very true


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## Offgridled (Jan 24, 2017)

Kestrel said:


> Actually, $7 /is/ expensive for nothing, and nothing is what those dropins are worth, IMO.
> 
> Anything of high quality is a bargain, while cheap [email protected] is always too expensive.


Well put indeed!!


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## Grizzman (Jan 24, 2017)

Had it not been subjected to twice the apparent maximum voltage, it may still be working today, and may continue to work for quite a while. This causes me to not immediately call it crap, but it's unlikely to offer true long term reliability. 

Having said that, you'll never see me recommend a generic drop-in from eBay.


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## Kestrel (Jan 24, 2017)

No worries Grizz (you /are/ technically correct ); certainly didn't mean that barb for you, but do confess it appeared so - as it was convenient to quote your post. 

Just carrying the torch for Sgt.LED, he had a sigline that said something like; 'I'm too poor to buy cheap stuff'.


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## Grizzman (Jan 24, 2017)

I took no offense at all to your post. My lowest cost drop-in is a Nailbender that barely works now. 

My only experience with truly inexpensive drop-ins was my purchase 5+ years ago of a Solarforce drop-in and host for a friend of a friend (that is now a co-worker) to run on a .22 LR AR strictly for training purposes. The budget for the light, with Picatinny mount, was somewhere around $50, and wasn't negotiable. When I started working with him 1 1/2 years ago, I asked if it was still working, and was surprised to hear that it's been completely reliable.


Thanks for the photos. The warm Malkoff's tint isn't as orange as I was expecting, and it looks quite good. The XM-L emitter in the M61 reflector, which was originally intended for the smaller XP-G, really is something special. The M91s really light up a room well, and the M61L XM-L Experimental has few peers for indoor, close range use. 

Welcome to the (Malkoff) addiction.


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## SC-Texas (Jan 24, 2017)

Guys. Thanks for the input and ilearned a cheap, $7.00 technical lesson about checking voltage specs.

Waiting on the solar force unit.


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## archimedes (Jan 24, 2017)

SC-Texas said:


> Guys. Thanks for the input and I learned a cheap, $7.00 technical lesson about checking voltage specs....



Now _that's_ a good value, haha


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