# My Quick NiteCore D10-EX10 Review



## this_is_nascar (Jun 30, 2008)

*"for submission in the Reviews forum".*

I received (1) of each from the Fenix-Store earlier in the day. It was pretty wild not seeing a Fenix product when I opened the package. Like I said, I've only had these a couple hours, but I really do seem to like them. They are a bit heavier than I thought they would be, but I wouldn't classify them as too heavy (whatever that would mean).

Fit and finish is great. HA matching between bezel and body is excellent and dead-on. I continue to be amazed that only certain makers have issues attempting to match HA color between components. The implementation of the Smart-PD (physically speaking) is heads-and-tails above what I've experienced with other PD based lights. NiteCore did a great job with this. I actually don't mind using the PD action at all on this light and will probably use it for the primary means of activation. The O-Ring on each of my lights could have used some lube, but that was easily fixable. I think both versions of these lights are fantastic and I'm hoping the electronics prove to be the same. I am completing my 1st round of run-time testing and will post the results once completed. I'm glad to see the low-mode a good bit lower than the NDI. It's still not as low as an LF2X, but it's not far off.

My Wish List:

-- An accessory item pocket-clip.
-- The stainless/aluminum/whatever it is bezel ring should be implemented on the other light.
-- I don't care (as of this writing, but reserve the right to change my mind) for the UI allowing the light to come on at its last-used level. How the hell am I supposed to remember what level the light was on the last time I used it? The good thing is that changing levels is about as easy as you can get.

I've been using the light via the method of keeping the bezel cranked down and treating it like a "push/clicky" light. I will probably continue to use it that way. Overall and after only a few hours of ownership, I like both of these lights. As mentioned in one of the other threads, I'd like to see NiteCore tackle a 1 x AAA version of this light. I think they can do it, even with the Smart-PD design.


Edit #1: Here's the runtime comparision for each of the lights using a new Energizer E2 Lithium (L91). I'm not real pleased with the regulation of the D10. I was hoping for a flatter curve. Both lights, when running constant on HIGH get warm, but the D10 get considerably warmer than the EX10. It's not too hot to hold, but it's pretty damn warm. Another thing to be aware of is that once these lights start to drop out of regulation, they die quickly, leaving you with zero light. I suggest once you notice your coming out of regulation to change the battery. You've got 15-20 minutes to do so or you're in total darkness.








Edit #2: Here's the runtime with the Duracall alkaline (on HIGH) added.






Edit #3: I still don't understand what you guys see in these Eneloop cells, but here ya' go. This one was fully charged 30-days ago.






Edit #4: I've changed up the graph a bit, by removing the Twisty and Arc6, setting the plot to show 2-hours and added the NDI data I had available. This chart also shows the AW14500 protected cell.






Edit 5: Here's the graph with the inclusion of the AWRCR123 cell.


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## bill_n_opus (Jun 30, 2008)

Thanks! for the review. Can't wait for mine to come in ... shipping to Canada takes a bit longer.


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## primox1 (Jun 30, 2008)

Thanks for the review.
Which feels/fits better in your hand?


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## regulator (Jun 30, 2008)

Got my D10 as well and really like it. Thanks for the quick info and looking forward to some runtime graphs and/or comparisons.

I think the UI on the D10 is similar to the Photon lights (and better than the Pro which only comes on at max and must be ramped down). Its kinda like an improved and better photon UI.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 30, 2008)

primox1 said:


> Thanks for the review.
> Which feels/fits better in your hand?



The D10, due to its additional length.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 30, 2008)

Edit #1, to Post #1 has been made. It's the 1st results of a runtime test.


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## primox1 (Jun 30, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> The D10, due to its additional length.


 
Thanks


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## LED-holic (Jun 30, 2008)

Interesting run time info TIN.

Thanks a lot for that. Good to know what to expect when running the lights.

I figured the Fenix L1D will still be the king of efficiency / run time, but the D10 is just too darn cool as a tool and a toy! This is why I carry at least 2 lights, with the E01 as my back up.


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## gottawearshades (Jun 30, 2008)

Great info. Thanks.

I'd like to see a runtime test of the D10 on an alkaline AA.

I'm curious how its efficiency compares to the P1D.


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## Lumenz (Jun 30, 2008)

I received mine today as well and I was wondering if your light (D10) has to be clicked an extra time to get to high mode. For low mode (while on), I click twice. To get to high mode (while on), I have to click three times and then hold. While it is off, that is four clicks and then a press! My thumb hurts just thinking about it.

I like the light, but I am actually disappointed in how it functions. I was hoping I could set it to whatever I level I wanted and it would remember that level. Then I could switch to high and low using the click-click function. Then I would turn it off and back on and it would be back to my preset level. However, it does not do that. It saves whatever level you had last. So it goes back to the high or low mode after the light is turned back on. 

On to the shelf with the rest of my "good but not great" flashlights.

Edit: clarified my post


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## regulator (Jun 30, 2008)

Nice. The Nitecores have some pretty good efficiency to compare so well with the Ra. The EX10 is just about equal which is very good.

I think what is being shown is that the EX10 on 3 volt lithium primary is running more efficient than the D10 on 1.7 volt lithium primary. The Nitecore circuit requires more energy to boost the lower voltage cell.

I think the D10 will run just as efficient as the EX10 when they are both running the rechargable lithium cells 14500 and RCR123.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 30, 2008)

regulator said:


> Nice. The Nitecores have some pretty good efficiency to compare so well with the Ra. The EX10 is just about equal which is very good.
> 
> I think what is being shown is that the EX10 on 3 volt lithium primary is running more efficient than the D10 on 1.7 volt lithium primary. The Nitecore circuit requires more energy to boost the lower voltage cell. (BTW I think you accidently put the incorrect EX10 battery info in your chart).
> 
> I think the D10 will run just as efficient as the EX10 when they are both running the rechargable lithium cells 14500 and RCR123.



Thanks. I fixed it. I was in a hurry to get it posted.


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## regulator (Jun 30, 2008)

I figured that - and thanks for the super unbelievable fast post of runtimes. I am impressed at how fast you got them up.

I was impressed when I saw the Ra runtime graph and to see the EX10 with equally impressive efficiency is nice.

The 3 volt CR123 primary does have an advantage over the 1.7 volt E2 primary when on max setting and the driver efficiency is a bit better at the higher voltages. I would think at a lower drive level that the difference would not be as pronounced since both cells have similar capacity.


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## cave dave (Jun 30, 2008)

Question:
Turn on to max now click it off. From off in clicky mode press 3 times. What happens?

It should go to low directly from off, but I'm wondering if it flashes bright in the process.


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## Smile (Jun 30, 2008)

:twothumbsThanks,valuable information.


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## FrankW438 (Jun 30, 2008)

cave dave said:


> Question:
> Turn on to max now click it off. From off in clicky mode press 3 times. What happens?
> 
> It should go to low directly from off, but I'm wondering if it flashes bright in the process.


 
It flashes twice, at whatever brightness level you had previously set.

I am still trying to get used to switching to high or low like this. your "click speed" has to be just right. I'm sure I'll master it before too long.

I really like the fact that the switch is virtually silent. I may use my new D10 as a back-up duty light. I only wish the piston drive wasn't so stiff. My thumb is really getting a workout!

-- Frank


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## ibcj (Jun 30, 2008)

FrankW438 said:


> II only wish the piston drive wasn't so stiff. My thumb is really getting a workout!
> 
> -- Frank



Mine were really stiff too. I pulled the piston out, wiped off all the lubricant on and around the piston and they work much better.

Nice runtime charts TIN ! Thanks for the efforts and review.


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## ecallahan (Jun 30, 2008)

Can anyone confirm that it is safe to use the 3.7 volt lithium ion rechargeables (protected) in the EX10? I have 3.0 volts running in it now, but I have some 3.7's on the way, should be here this week.


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## Ty_Bower (Jun 30, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> Edit #1: Here's the runtime comparision for each of the lights using a new Energizer E2 Lithium (L91). I'm not real pleased with the regulation of the D10. I was hoping for a flatter curve.



Huh? It's not any worse than your NDI running on similar battery chemistry. You can only flog a one and a half volt cell so hard. How does the discharge curve look a few notches down from maximum output?

I like my EX10. My only complaint is that double-click to low doesn't force the ramp direction to "increase". I'm finding that I have a tendency to double-click to low often, then try to ramp up from there. Half the time it ramps up, and half the time it just sits there and does nothing...


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## RGB_LED (Jun 30, 2008)

Thanks TIN for the review! Can't wait for my D10 and EX10 to arrive.



ecallahan said:


> Can anyone confirm that it is safe to use the 3.7 volt lithium ion rechargeables (protected) in the EX10? I have 3.0 volts running in it now, but I have some 3.7's on the way, should be here this week.


According to 4seven's initial CPF MP posting... only protected RCR123's should be used... 

"Runtimes on *RCR123A (protected only)*
Max: 130 lumens, 80 minutes
Min: 5 lumens, 60 hours or 2.5 days!"


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## regulator (Jun 30, 2008)

Hi ecallahan,

3.7 volt rechargable cells will work fine in the EX10. I am using the 14500 cells in the D10 and they work great. The 14500 cells actually top out at over 4 volts fully charged off the charger. The D10 works at top efficiency with these cells.


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## ViReN (Jun 30, 2008)

TIN,

Excellent Review. :twothumbs Love the run time comparison.


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## HoopleHead (Jul 1, 2008)

cave dave said:


> Question:
> Turn on to max now click it off. From off in clicky mode press 3 times. What happens?
> 
> It should go to low directly from off, but I'm wondering if it flashes bright in the process.


 

mine flashes bright, no matter how fast i press it


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## Rat6P (Jul 1, 2008)

Thanks for the great and super fast review!

I can live with the small flash before going into low..........many fenix lights have it and its no big deal, you adapt.

I really dont like this remember last mode thing though.
I thought It would be better if the one mode you can change the output stays at the level you programme it to, UNTIL you actual re programme it again. 
Not say....you programme it..... then you go into high or low mode and then the light comes back on in either one of those because thats what was used last. This is going to be too much of a cluster to remember what mode the light will come on
.....:sigh:

This sounds like the only flaw in the light for me.


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## 4sevens (Jul 1, 2008)

HoopleHead said:


> mine flashes bright, no matter how fast i press it


Make sure the piston is lubed. Also, make sure theres not too much either


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## wild68fury (Jul 1, 2008)

Nice review,

How would you rate the brightness of the EX10 compared to the Fenix P3D RB100 or Q5?


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

wild68fury said:


> Nice review,
> 
> How would you rate the brightness of the EX10 compared to the Fenix P3D RB100 or Q5?



Don't have one to compare it to. Sorry.


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

Edit #2 has been added to Post #1, to show runtime on a Duracell battery.


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## I came to the light... (Jul 1, 2008)

Thanks for the great review! To tell the truth, I'm a bit surprised that the Ra-100 is brighter. I had thought nitecore's new "torch lumens" was pretty honest...

Two questions. First, can you get lux numbers @ 1m, both for the hotspot and halfway through the spill? Also, do you have any li-ion cells to test with? I think the last question is pretty important, as, despite the manufacturer's claims, most light are considerably brighter with a li-ion cell.


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## m16a (Jul 1, 2008)

I came to the light... said:


> Thanks for the great review! To tell the truth, I'm a bit surprised that the Ra-100 is brighter. I had thought nitecore's new "torch lumens" was pretty honest...
> 
> Two questions. First, can you get lux numbers @ 1m, both for the hotspot and halfway through the spill? Also, do you have any li-ion cells to test with? I think the last question is pretty important, as, despite the manufacturer's claims, most light are considerably brighter with a li-ion cell.



I used my D10 with an energizer NiMH, then tried it very briefly with a newly charged ultrafire UP14500. I could not see a visible difference. So there really is very little difference IMHO.


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## I came to the light... (Jul 1, 2008)

m16a said:


> I used my D10 with an energizer NiMH, then tried it very briefly with a newly charged ultrafire UP14500. I could not see a visible difference. So there really is very little difference IMHO.


 
Thanks for checking. However, I would still apreciate a runtime graph, as it can be very hard to tell the difference by eye, especially when you can't have the same two lights on at the same time.


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

Eneloop testing is occuring right now. When completed, I'll try to do an AW cell.


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

Edit #3 has been added to Post #1, for Eneloop results.


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

I just started the AW-14500 runtime test on the D10 and I can tell you, the initial brightness is much brighter than the start of the L91 testing. I'm a bit concerned about how hot this light is going to get. It good pretty damn hot with the L91. I can only imagine what's going to happen with the 14500.


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## 4sevens (Jul 1, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> I just started the AW-14500 runtime test on the D10 and I can tell you, the initial brightness is much brighter than the start of the L91 testing. I'm a bit concerned about how hot this light is going to get. It good pretty damn hot with the L91. I can only imagine what's going to happen with the 14500.


Just a quick point (if you don't mind TIN), some of the heat is from boosting from
a 1.5v to the needed 3.5-4.0v. Typicial efficiency for the best converters is 70%
since it's quite a high boost from such a low V. That means you're losing 30%
in heat alone. This can't be avoided and is the case for all 1.5V single cell lights. 
Also, any internal resistance in the battery turns to heat too - keep in
mind 3x the current is going through the battery compared to the LED.

However the 4.2v Li-ion will be bucking so there is much less losses in heat.
Buck circuits are much more efficient and there is less current going through
the battery


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

4sevens said:


> Just a quick point (if you don't mind TIN), some of the head is from boosting from
> a 1.5v to the needed 3.5-4.0v. Typicial efficiency for the best converters is 70%
> since it's quite a high boost from such a low V. That means you're losing 30%
> in heat alone. This can't be avoided and is the case for all 1.5V single cell lights.
> ...




Good stuff. I'll keep that in mind. I just checked and it's not as hot as with the L91 yet. I'l continue to monitor and report back. Who said an old-dog can't learn new tricks. :nana:


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## Oddjob (Jul 1, 2008)

Hey TIN thanks for the review and graphs!

Quick question: What is it about the Nitecore PD action that you like over the Arc6 and McGizmos? I think you wrote in your Arc6 thread that you were not to fond of the piston drives. Thanks again. 

(I did not have time to read through the whole thread so sorry if you have already addressed this)


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

Oddjob said:


> Hey TIN thanks for the review and graphs!
> 
> Quick question: What is it about the Nitecore PD action that you like over the Arc6 and McGizmos? I think you wrote in your Arc6 thread that you were not to fond of the piston drives. Thanks again.
> 
> (I did not have time to read through the whole thread so sorry if you have already addressed this)



In short, the following:

-- much easier activation.
-- much more reliable activation, meaning, once active it stays active without thumb slipage, numbness, slipping off, etc.
-- no kilroy to d*ck-around with, bend, adjust, break, etc. The entire end of the Smart-PD makes contact with the activation ring, whereas the PK must touch the kilroy that sticks out slightly. It makes for an off-center contact-patch.

They are the physical aspects of the Smart-PD that I prefer. The software aspects bring it to even a higher level.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 1, 2008)

Thanks TIN for the excellent review and runtime charts. Having seen those charts I'm even more impressed with this light. Having discovered the PTFE liquid lube from you (I'm sure it was you that I learned about this from - the Radio Shack stuff or similar) I was wondering if you had tried lubing the piston with it? I did the main body threads and it now turns about 4 times easier than before. While the piston drive isn't that hard to push I think I might like it to be a bit lighter in touch. However I'm wondering if it might become too easy to activate unless it was locked out. Probably no more so than a light touch clickie. What do you think?


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

I lubed the bezel o-ring and threads, but have not touched the PD. I haven't even removed the PD from the sleeve it's be working so nicely.


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

Edit #4 has been added to Post #1 and shows the AW 14500 cell in the D10.


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## jbviau (Jul 1, 2008)

Nice, thanks. Does the D10 on 14500s just completely drop off around 78 minutes then? There's a little uptick there and then nothing.

Also, are you planning to do the EX10 on a RCR123A? That would be great.


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## tricker (Jul 1, 2008)

this is AWESOME!!!....but i think graph one EX10 legend should be blue instead of purple, or maybe it is and i am color blind....which is also likely


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

jbviau said:


> Nice, thanks. Does the D10 on 14500s just completely drop off around 78 minutes then? There's a little uptick there and then nothing.
> 
> Also, are you planning to do the EX10 on a RCR123A? That would be great.



I wasn't watching it when it occurred. I'm assuming the protection circuit of the battery kicked in. Yes, currently I have the EX10 with an AW RCR123 on the meter.


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## bltkmt (Jul 1, 2008)

I received my EX-10 yesterday and played with it briefly last night (thanks to all at Fenix-Store!)...wonderful craftsmanship and quality to this light. It truly feels great in my hand.

My only hesitation so far has been the mechanics of jumping to "high"...not working for me. My understanding is that when the light is screwed down to "off" position, I should be able to first, click it "on", then three clicks and a hold to "high"? I tried it repeatedly last night...no dice. The two clicks to low works fine.

Anyone else having issues? I'm sure it will turn out to be the "nut behind the wheel"...


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

bltkmt said:


> I received my EX-10 yesterday and played with it briefly last night (thanks to all at Fenix-Store!)...wonderful craftsmanship and quality to this light. It truly feels great in my hand.
> 
> My only hesitation so far has been the mechanics of jumping to "high"...not working for me. My understanding is that when the light is screwed down to "off" position, I should be able to first, click it "on", then three clicks and a hold to "high"? I tried it repeatedly last night...no dice. The two clicks to low works fine.
> 
> Anyone else having issues? I'm sure it will turn out to be the "nut behind the wheel"...



Try 4-clicks, then a hold and report back as to what happens.


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## Oddjob (Jul 1, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> In short, the following:
> 
> -- much easier activation.
> -- much more reliable activation, meaning, once active it stays active without thumb slipage, numbness, slipping off, etc.
> ...


 
Hey thanks for your input.


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2008)

Edit #5 has been added to Post #1 to show the runtime of the AWRCR123 cell in the EX10.


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## VF1Jskull1 (Jul 1, 2008)

nice reviews... 

this is gonna make me want both now per CPF motto....


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## DavidD (Jul 1, 2008)

bltkmt said:


> My only hesitation so far has been the mechanics of jumping to "high"...not working for me. My understanding is that when the light is screwed down to "off" position, I should be able to first, click it "on", then three clicks and a hold to "high"? I tried it repeatedly last night...no dice. The two clicks to low works fine.



The instructions read, "When the light is ON, quick double-click the tail cap and hold, the light enters Max brightness directly... Tips: To enter Min or Max brightness when the light is OFF, users need only click the tail cap one more time... When the light is OFF, quick triple-click the tail cap continuously and hold, the light enters Max brightness directly."

The way it is worded might be a little confusing, but what it says works on mine. From ON, it isn't a quick double-click and then press & hold, but a quick click & press & hold (you are holding your second click). So, from OFF, it is a quick triple-click, holding your third click.

That is the way I understand it, and works that way on mine.


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## gottawearshades (Jul 1, 2008)

Great info. So, not good on an alkaline. For that matter, the curve doesn't look great on a lithium AA either. 




this_is_nascar said:


> Edit #2 has been added to Post #1, to show runtime on a Duracell battery.


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## LowTEC (Jul 1, 2008)

all i care is if the EX10 any brighter than the mighty P2D Q5 :naughty:


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## regulator (Jul 1, 2008)

Looks like the D10 performs a bit better than the EX10 when both using rechargable Lithium Ions cell - 14500 and RCR123 respectively. I bet the runtime would be very impressive on the D10 if the output was backed off just a wee bit. Something arounet 75% - 80% output would produce almost similar output by eye with much better runtime.

Amazingly the D10 on 14500 cell could probably run almost as long as the EX10 on primary if outputs were matched. This is very interesting for a rechargable cell.


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## LA OZ (Jul 1, 2008)

Great review TIN. I hope you could improve the legend with a bigger representation of the colour. The thin line at the legend make it almost impossible to read.


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## geepondy (Jul 1, 2008)

I'm kind of color blind but if I'm looking at your graphs correctly, it looks like the D10 on an L91 is just a tad brighter then with an Eneloop but mine is noticeably brighter to the eye with a L91 versus an Eneloop.


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## CM (Jul 1, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> ... I'm not real pleased with the regulation of the D10. I was hoping for a flatter curve...



You'd be hard pressed to find the regulation that you want from a single AA light driven to that kind of output. The regulator/AA are working balls to the walls. Consider the voltage of a AA is 1/2 to 1/3 the Vf of the LED (depending on LED Vf and cell type) and the low efficiencies inherent in such a high step up and you'll appreciate that it's not a trivial task to get "flat" regulation.

Oh, not to forget, thanks for the nice runtime graphs and review


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## 4sevens (Jul 1, 2008)

regulator said:


> Looks like the D10 performs a bit better than the EX10 when both using rechargable Lithium Ions cell - 14500 and RCR123 respectively. I bet the runtime would be very impressive on the D10 if the output was backed off just a wee bit. Something arounet 75% - 80% output would produce almost similar output by eye with much better runtime.
> 
> Amazingly the D10 on 14500 cell could probably run almost as long as the EX10 on primary if outputs were matched. This is very interesting for a rechargable cell.


Also, keep in mind the variations in Vf will affect both efficiency and runtime. 
The output is also affected by the Q5's flux range. It's not a single specificied
output but a range - like 50-60 miles per hour instead of just 55 mph.


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## SaturnNyne (Jul 1, 2008)

LA OZ said:


> I hope you could improve the legend with a bigger representation of the colour. The thin line at the legend make it almost impossible to read.


Same here, I'm mildly color blind and really have to study and compare some of the curves to match them. When the colors are really close, I sometimes have to rely on my expectations of what the curve should look like, based on past experience, in order to figure them out. Slightly thicker lines and/or larger color samples in the key would be helpful to us.


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## regulator (Jul 1, 2008)

Most definately 4-7's. BTW - Thanks for the bringing such a nice light to market. These are all around good performers and should make a lot happy. I think there will be many more orders to follow. Now I just need to get a EX10!


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## LG&M (Jul 1, 2008)

Thank you for the run time's and your time.


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## paulr (Jul 2, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> I continue to be amazed that only certain makers have issues attempting to match HA color between components.


 I think clear HA color is harder to match when the coating is thicker (and therefore more durable). Draw the obvious conclusion.


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## Patriot (Jul 2, 2008)

This is a very helpful review and a great reference thread. 

Thanks for taking the time to record all of this TIN.


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## Sharpy_swe (Jul 2, 2008)

Thanks for another great review


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## gottawearshades (Jul 2, 2008)

I had a chance to play with my EX10 last night. I agree with the label. I is a high quality flashlight. I wanted a pocket light that had an interface kind of like my NovaTac, but smaller just in case I ever want a smaller light. If this one were any smaller, it would be a swallowing hazard for children.

This is my first piston-driven light, and my first ramping light. I like the piston, not so sure about the ramping. The piston has an good feel and an kind of neat click sound.

As for the ramping, I dunno. My favorite light is my Novatac, partly because the UI is perfect for me.

My one suggestion is that it would be nice if the memory of the custom brightness you set was not erased when you went directly to high or low. I don't much like always having to adjust it. On my NovaTac, I decide ahead of time, and then I always know how bright it is. Life is all about committing yourself, and living with the consequences.

This interface brings uncertainty into my life I am not sure I'm ready for. One through nine, no maybes, no supposes, no fractions. You can't travel in space, you can't go out into space, you know, without, like, you know, uh, with fractions - what are you going to land on - one-quarter, three-eighths? What are you going to do when you go from here to Venus or something? That's dialectic physics.


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## Marduke (Jul 2, 2008)

Changing the background from grey to white will GREATLY improve the readability. As a former instructor, printing out charts with grey background (the default) instead of white earned a 5 point deduction in my grade book after the first week.

How to:
Right click center of chart in the grey area > format plot area > "Area" should be selected as "none" instead of "automatic"


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## ruriimasu (Jul 2, 2008)

will ultra fire or trustfire 14500s produce similar runtimes as AWs?


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## streetmaster (Jul 2, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Changing the background from grey to white will GREATLY improve the readability. As a former instructor, printing out charts with grey background (the default) instead of white earned a 5 point deduction in my grade book after the first week.
> 
> How to:
> Right click center of chart in the grey area > format plot area > "Area" should be selected as "none" instead of "automatic"


lol Nascar, you just got "schooled". :hahaha: Even though I had *no* problems reading your charts.  Constructive criticism I suppose... :shrug:


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## BabyDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

The fact that the memory is erased by switching to low or high and then you have to reset your user defined level every time is a deal breaker for me. I will stick with my NDI which has a user defined mode that stays fixed where I want it, and a high I can switch to if I need it. Even though the PD Switching is a great improvement over the NDI's cheap clickie, what good is the PD if it switches off your user defined mode every time you access quick low or high. What makes this even worse is that switching to high or low can easily happen unintentionally, but then to be punished by losing your user defined setting? What could EdgeTac or 4 Sevens could been thinking about when they designed this into this light? In my opinion, they would have been better off without the instant low and high, if the cost for that was losing the user defined setting. It is hard to imagine a good reason if this was an intentional design plan. If anyone could give a good reason for this design, I would love to hear it.


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## Phaserburn (Jul 2, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> The fact that the memory is erased by switching to low or high and then you have to reset your user defined level every time is a deal breaker for me. I will stick with my NDI which has a user defined mode that stays fixed where I want it, and a high I can switch to if I need it. Even though the PD Switching is a great improvement over the NDI's cheap clickie, what good is the PD if it switches off your user defined mode every time you access quick low or high. What makes this even worse is that switching to high or low can easily happen unintentionally, but then to be punished by losing your user defined setting? What could EdgeTac or 4 Sevens could been thinking about when they designed this into this light? In my opinion, they would have been better off without the instant low and high, if the cost for that was losing the user defined setting. It is hard to imagine a good reason if this was an intentional design plan. If anyone could give a good reason for this design, I would love to hear it.


 
I agree with not caring for the loss of the user defined level when you use the min-max functionality. I prefer the NDI/Extreme UI. I could see alot of people enjoying this UI, though, so I don't find fault with it's design.

To me, the ideal UI would be the NDI/Extreme one where you could also get the lowest setting on demand. Nitpicking, really. If you always have solid access to max and low, then you really would benefit from memory on the user defined level. The ability to define "medium" is what it is about, IMHO, and not have min/max override the user setting in memory.


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## patycake57 (Jul 2, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> What could EdgeTac or 4 Sevens could been thinking about when they designed this into this light? In my opinion, they would have been better off without the instant low and high, if the cost for that was losing the user defined setting. It is hard to imagine a good reason if this was an intentional design plan. If anyone could give a good reason for this design, I would love to hear it.


 
Is this tone really called for? These discussions usually are more productive without this kind of arrogance.

This is a fairly novel UI, and I applaud 4-7s and Nitecore for it. I think it is a nice and simple UI (having used an EX10 for the last 2 days). Is it perfect? Probably not. The ramping direction clearly needs to be reset if the min or max is set. Other than that, it works well for MY uses as an EDC. I do think I would appreciated a model which was more complicated, with user settings, along the lines of LF5XT (on the way) or Novatac (I have an 85P). I suspect there will be follow up models, and look forward towards aquiring more lights along this design.

I also have an NDI, and I much prefer the EX10 to that. The interface is simpler with only one button to worry about, and I find myself using middle modes more (I'd use my NDI mostly as hi/lo). Plus, the EX10 is considerably cheaper, and the PD is quite a new feature.

Is it perfect for you? Obviously not, but people differ, and I recognize that.


----------



## FsTop (Jul 2, 2008)

I've got a D10 on order - looking forward to it.

Just a thought on an ideal UI - the Infinity has a twisty ring for choosing output level. Let's develop that ring function a little farther, and drop the clicky entirely.

Let the ring go all the way around, with maybe 8 detents, one deeper than the others. The deep detent is Off. Turn in one direction, and you'd get Low, ramping up toward High, until you go all the way around to Off again. Start turning in the other direction, and get High, ramping down toward Low, then Off again. 

It's intuitive and predictable, solves the High-first vs. Low-first dilemma, and can be used as a momentary On/Off. 

Then extend it even further in the next generation, and make the ring a continuous level-set, with maybe 100 levels and no detents except Off.


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## BabyDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

patycake57 said:


> I also have an NDI, and I much prefer the EX10 to that. The interface is simpler with only one button to worry about, and I find myself using middle modes more (I'd use my NDI mostly as hi/lo). Plus, the EX10 is considerably cheaper, and the PD is quite a new feature.
> 
> Is it perfect for you? Obviously not, but people differ, and I recognize that.


 
I am sorry that you took personal offence at my opinion. I am glad you are enjoying your light and don't mean to deminish your joy of owning it. You are absolutely right. No light is perfect for everyone.


----------



## Thujone (Jul 2, 2008)

regulator said:


> Looks like the D10 performs a bit better than the EX10 when both using rechargable Lithium Ions cell - 14500 and RCR123 respectively.
> 
> 
> This is very interesting for a rechargable cell.



I had mentioned this in talks before. 14500s have more energy capacity than to rcr123s. I will stick my graph below containing all of my AW RCR123 cells and 14500 cells. The three poor performing 123s are old blue label, the rest are black, and the three top performing black label are from the last couple months..


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## jbviau (Jul 2, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> The fact that the memory is erased by switching to low or high and then you have to reset your user defined level every time is a deal breaker for me. I will stick with my NDI which has a user defined mode that stays fixed where I want it, and a high I can switch to if I need it. Even though the PD Switching is a great improvement over the NDI's cheap clickie, what good is the PD if it switches off your user defined mode every time you access quick low or high. What makes this even worse is that switching to high or low can easily happen unintentionally, but then to be punished by losing your user defined setting? What could EdgeTac or 4 Sevens could been thinking about when they designed this into this light? In my opinion, they would have been better off without the instant low and high, if the cost for that was losing the user defined setting. It is hard to imagine a good reason if this was an intentional design plan. If anyone could give a good reason for this design, I would love to hear it.



Question for you: When is it absolutely crucial to have instant access to medium?


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## Marduke (Jul 2, 2008)

patycake57 said:


> Is this tone really called for? These discussions usually are more productive without this kind of arrogance.
> 
> Is it perfect for you? Obviously not, but people differ, and I recognize that.



Let it go, It's an ongoing theme which you won't win. Don't bring up LED tint either, trust me.


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## Ty_Bower (Jul 2, 2008)

gottawearshades said:


> My one suggestion is that it would be nice if the memory of the custom brightness you set was not erased when you went directly to high or low. I don't much like always having to adjust it.



I'll disagree. While my EX10 is my first "ramping" light as well, I'm finding it's really growing on me. I'm not a "tactical" light user. I'm not often placed in life or death situations. I just putter around the house and the yard. For me, the EX10 works really well. I double click to put it on the lowest setting, then ramp it up to whatever brightness seems appropriate. If it's late at night inside the house, then a relatively low setting is perfect. If it's outdoors, maybe a little brighter is better. I don't care exactly what the setting is. In some ways, it's nice that the interface encourages (requires) me to set the level each time I use it for a different task. That way I get the right amount of light for the job.

My only complaint is the 50% of the time when I double click to low, and then it tries to ramp down.


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## tennisplyr3 (Jul 2, 2008)

ruriimasu said:


> will ultra fire or trustfire 14500s produce similar runtimes as AWs?



I would like to know this as well. Anyone?


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## BabyDoc (Jul 2, 2008)

jbviau said:


> Question for you: When is it absolutely crucial to have instant access to medium?


 

It isn't CRUCIAL. It is a CONVENIENCE. Except for people in tactical situations needing instant HIGH, I doubt there is a crucial need for instant access to any light level.

If your point in asking this question is to say it isn't crucial that the EX10 dumps its user defined medium setting when low or high are activated, you are absolutely right. You could possibly reset that level within 4 seconds, although it more likely will take a few tries to get it exactly where you want it. 

I have a question for you: If there was no need that the user definable setting needed to be saved, why would you guess the EX10 was designed to save the level in the first place, only to lose it when low or high was activated?


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## clintb (Jul 2, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Changing the background from grey to white will GREATLY improve the readability. As a former instructor, printing out charts with grey background (the default) instead of white earned a 5 point deduction in my grade book after the first week.
> 
> How to:
> Right click center of chart in the grey area > format plot area > "Area" should be selected as "none" instead of "automatic"


And save to .png so you don't get the nasty lossy artifacts.


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## jbviau (Jul 2, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> I have a question for you: If there was no need that the user definable setting needed to be saved, why would you guess the EX10 was designed to save the level in the first place, only to lose it when low or high was activated?



That's a fair question. Why allow a user-set level at all? It seems clear that the light isn't 100% designed to satisfy people who want one. If I had to guess, I'd say that 4Sevens is trying to entice some % of people who really dig lights like the NDI that allow users more control over level-setting while simultaneously appealing to a broader market by offering different features/a simpler UI. It might work. Look at the iPod shuffle. Many people didn't think they could do without the screen, but it's sold pretty well. 

There's something else lurking in the background of this debate, I think, which is the search for THE perfect flashlight. Some people are definitely on that quest. I can relate, because I'm someone who tends not to want multiple lights, each with its own specific niche. I want one that can do it all. It's just hard to do it all well.

Ok, starting to ramble here  ...


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## Hitthespot (Jul 2, 2008)

Thanks Nascar for your quick impressions of this light and your testing. Your reviews usually help me off the fence. I own the NDI and am really debating wether or not I want or need one of these lights. I really like the switching mechanics of these lights.

Do you see any difference in brightness between the two? Is one brighter than the other? I believe I read they were both suppose to be the same brightness.

Thanks

Bill


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## Kid9P (Jul 2, 2008)

I'm getting a little confused.

I need my lights to turn on ON HIGH most of the time.
Can this be done with these?

Thanks!

Ray

PS: Great review TIN :twothumbs


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## cave dave (Jul 2, 2008)

I'm on the quest for an AA light can replace my SSC mod HDS. I am even willing to accept less runtime. The D10 is a good light, smaller, same brightness, but it won't replace the 4 level HDS.

Here is what i wrote in another thread:


cave dave said:


> In general I have realized I was thinking of this light all wrong.  I've been thinking of it as a programmable multi-stage light like the Arc6, PD or HDS. In fact I would call this a *Re-*programmable *single *stage light. One that is very easy (maybe just a tad to easy) to reprogram. If you think of it that way its a great light.
> 
> I would disagree with 4sevens that you can *instantly *access low or high. The nitecore instructions say you can *directly *access low or high, better wording but in fact it may flash through other levels in the process. Instead you can *quickly *access low or high. That is if you remember how. It is different sequence if its on or off. I would rather have the sequence be the same.
> 
> ...


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## Lite_me (Jul 2, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> I'm getting a little confused.
> 
> I need my lights to turn on ON HIGH most of the time.
> Can this be done with these?
> ...


Yes!


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## Lite_me (Jul 2, 2008)

Hitthespot said:


> I own the NDI and am really debating wether or not I want or need one of these lights. I really like the switching mechanics of these lights.
> 
> Do you see any difference in brightness between the two? Is one brighter than the other? I believe I read they were both suppose to be the same brightness.
> 
> ...


Hoping Nascar will chime in also but I have the EX10 and it is very close to my NDI. The NDI appears to have a bit more spill, but not much. Spot & throw are very close also. There's not a whole lot of difference in my two samples cept for tint. (sorry Marduke )


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## Burgess (Jul 3, 2008)

To This_Is_Nascar --


Once again, another fine review and run-time graphs !


Thank you for your time and effort.

:thumbsup:

:goodjob:
_


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 3, 2008)

cave dave said:


> I'm on the quest for an AA light can replace my SSC mod HDS. I am even willing to accept less runtime. The D10 is a good light, smaller, same brightness, but it won't replace the 4 level HDS.



The Liteflux LX5XT is very very close to an HDS/Novatac in terms of UI, flexibility, programmability, switching, and beam quality. The D10 is closer to the HDS in terms of construction and knurling.


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## carrot (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm not sure what is percieved to be the problem with the UI? I think it works fine. This is a multi-level light that remembers how it was before you turned it off. High and low are not modes, they are shortcuts.


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## streetmaster (Jul 3, 2008)

carrot said:


> I'm not sure what is percieved to be the problem with the UI? I think it works fine. This is a multi-level light that remembers how it was before you turned it off. High and low are not modes, they are shortcuts.


Well said! :rock:Since you put it like that, I feel much better about ordering an EX10! Thankyou. I can't wait!


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## LowBat (Jul 3, 2008)

Hi TIN, any plans to test the D10 with a NiMH (non-Eneloop)? I didn't see it in your graphs.


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## clintb (Jul 3, 2008)

LowBat said:


> Hi TIN, any plans to test the D10 with a NiMH (non-Eneloop)? I didn't see it in your graphs.


:duh2: Eneloop's are NiMh, just low self-discharge version. Are you referring to a NiMh with higher capacity than the 2000mAh of the Eneloop?


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## Thujone (Jul 3, 2008)

clintb said:


> Are you referring to a NiMh with higher capacity than the 2000mAh of the Eneloop?



I believe that is exactly what he is asking for. You can just add about 25% to the runtime if you are dealing with fresh hicaps.


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## I came to the light... (Jul 3, 2008)

After requesting the runtimes I lost track of this thread for a few days, but...

Thanks for the li-ion runtimes, TIN  But the results are pretty disappointing, compared to the NDI. Seems like the efficiency has actually gone down, the exception being the EX10 on a CR123A. 

I agree with what was stated earlier, that these lights are re-programmable singe stage lights, not programmable multi-stage lights. For me, that's a real disappointment...


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## SilentK (Jul 3, 2008)

Nice review. but it could use one very very small thing that provides alot of information of a light. Beamshots!


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## Kid9P (Jul 3, 2008)

I would love to see a few beam shots comparing it with a few different lights in it's output range.

Maybe a Novatac 120P / Fenix P1D or just about anything similar.

:thumbsup:


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## BabyDoc (Jul 3, 2008)

I came to the light... said:


> I agree with what was stated earlier, that these lights are re-programmable singe stage lights, not programmable multi-stage lights. For me, that's a real disappointment...


 
I look at this light a bit different. It is a 3 stage light, with only a single medium stage being adjustable. The other 2 stages are fixed, Max Hi; and Min LOW. The big disappointment for me is that you lose the memory of the adjustable setting when you access the fixed settings. Whether you want it or not, the last fixed setting accessed replaces the adjustable setting in the memory. For the user who wants his light to quickly come on in Max or minimum every time, this would seem to be a quick and convenient way of setting one of these fixed stages into the memory. For the user who wants to access his user defined setting most of the time, this is only convenient until he accesses one of other 2 stages. He then has to reset his adjustable stage.


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## nMotion96 (Jul 3, 2008)

I just got mine D10 today and really like it. Anyone else notice that the word nitecore with the website isn't printed on straight but curves up. The on the head and body match a lot better than the NDI. The only thing with mine is that it looks like the tip of the head hit something putting a nick on it before it was anodized and in the channel in the tail there is a small scratch in there.


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## JohnF (Jul 3, 2008)

Curved lettering here, too. Only 'one of us' would ever notice. Perhaps they did it on purpose?

John F


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## SaturnNyne (Jul 4, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> I would love to see a few beam shots comparing it with a few different lights in it's output range.
> 
> Maybe a Novatac 120P / Fenix P1D or just about anything similar.


These are just quick shots I took last night for my own reference and I had no intention of sharing them, but since you asked...

I have a few NovaTac/EX10 comparison shots here.

The EX10 is using an RCR, 120P is on a primary. I don't think the brightness difference was quite as big as it appears there, but it was noticeable.

These are just quick handheld shots, sorry they're not better, wasn't set up to give them more room. Hope they help tide you over until someone can provide more and better.


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## LG&M (Jul 4, 2008)

Hitthespot said:


> Thanks Nascar for your quick impressions of this light and your testing. Your reviews usually help me off the fence. I own the NDI and am really debating wether or not I want or need one of these lights. I really like the switching mechanics of these lights.
> 
> Do you see any difference in brightness between the two? Is one brighter than the other? I believe I read they were both suppose to be the same brightness.
> 
> ...


I have a NDI also. I think the D10 is what the NDI should have been. My D10 is a little brighter but the fit & finish, UI , size and even the price is better then nightcores first offering. Any one still on the fence should get off on the D10 side.


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## Kid9P (Jul 4, 2008)

Great comparison pics with the Novatac.

Were both lights on HIGH by the way?

If not, can you tell me which is brighter ON HIGH of the two?

Thanks!

Ray


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## SaturnNyne (Jul 4, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> Great comparison pics with the Novatac.
> 
> Were both lights on HIGH by the way?
> 
> If not, can you tell me which is brighter ON HIGH of the two?


Yes, those shots were on high for both lights. The EX10 is clearly, but not tremendously, brighter than the NovaTac based on side by side comparison of both spot and spill intensity (I didn't do any semi-formal bounce tests, but I didn't feel there was any need to confirm what I was seeing, it looked pretty cut and dry). Don't take this as definitely confirming any brightness claims though; based on a few informal comparisons, I now believe my 120P is just slightly short of 120lm, probably closer to 100-110lm.

I also took a comparison shot with the EX10 on low, but I don't think it's very useful to anyone else since I left the 120P on my normal secondary mode rather than trying to make them comparable. If you're curious about the output on low, my quick observations based on comparison with a Ra Twisty is that it's somewhere around 1 lumen or perhaps slightly lower, but it was just a quick comparison and I didn't bother trying to nail it down precisely. Basically, it's no HDS in the extreme low end, but it is quite impressively and usefully low.


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## SunnyQueensland (Jul 5, 2008)

Thanks for taking the time to supply all this info... :thumbsup:


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## Spackle (Jul 5, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Changing the background from grey to white will GREATLY improve the readability. As a former instructor, printing out charts with grey background (the default) instead of white earned a 5 point deduction in my grade book after the first week.



The gray background is the default for a reason. It is the best background to use most of the time. I don't know were you get that a white background will *GREATLY* improve readability. What do you base this on?


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## Marduke (Jul 5, 2008)

Spackle said:


> The gray background is the default for a reason. It is the best background to use most of the time. I don't know were you get that a white background will *GREATLY* improve readability. What do you base this on?



Microsoft does a lot of wonky stuff by default, very little of it is with any GOOD reason.

Gray background is actually AGAINST graphing standards (along with Excel's rectangular, non-square plots). If you ever try to publish a graph as part of a larger publication, reviewers will immediately reject any plot with a shaded background, both because of set standards and readability issues. Having had to grade approximately 8000 (nearly all Excel) plots/graphs the past few years, I can confidently say that white gives VASTLY better contrast to view data points and lines.


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## applevision (Jul 6, 2008)

Guys, this is an awesome thread--thank you!

Okay, I need y'all experts to summarize for me... I am going to get a D10 I think--which batteries should I use? E2s? Eneloops? Or should I invest in some AWs and a charger? I think I'd like to get rechargeables so I don't have to keep throwing batteries away, but I want to get execellent performance from this light.

Many thanks!


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## LA OZ (Jul 6, 2008)

AW + Charger would be ideal for the D10 but the start up cost you have to consider. The next best thing is to pair with Eneloops.


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## ToeMoss (Jul 6, 2008)

gottawearshades said:


> This interface brings uncertainty into my life I am not sure I'm ready for. One through nine, no maybes, no supposes, no fractions. You can't travel in space, you can't go out into space, you know, without, like, you know, uh, with fractions - what are you going to land on - one-quarter, three-eighths? What are you going to do when you go from here to Venus or something? That's dialectic physics.


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## applevision (Jul 6, 2008)

Thank you, LA OZ.

I might just have to do the AWs...


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## Imothep (Jul 7, 2008)

Hi guys!

I just got my first D10 today and I love it, but one thing drives me crazy:

There are fingerprints on the led lens, you can clearly see them on low.
Does anybody know how to disassemble the reflector head for cleaning purposes? I doubt that this has any effect on the output, but i hate knowing its there.


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## Marduke (Jul 7, 2008)

Are you sure those are not silicon lines under the epoxy dome of the LED? They are fairly common in Cree LED's.


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## Patriot (Jul 7, 2008)

It's really hard to tell from that picture. I do see some fuzziness but I can't tell if it's silicon lines or something sitting on the exterior of the LED dome.

In any case, that would be fairly annoying. Hopefully someone will be able to post some lens removal instructions.


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## Imothep (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, its definitely on the outer side of the epoxy dome. That is clearly visible when I slighly move the flashlight while watching the led.

I tried to make two more pics but since I don't have a macro lens they are not as good as they could be.


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## Patriot (Jul 7, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> These are just quick shots I took last night for my own reference and I had no intention of sharing them, but since you asked...
> 
> I have a few NovaTac/EX10 comparison shots here.
> 
> The EX10 is using an RCR, 120P is on a primary. I don't think the brightness difference was quite as big as it appears there, but it was noticeable.




Those shots are just fine! Thanks for posting them. From my perspective the difference in output is substantial. With only have two pics to judge from, the difference could be 20-30 lumens. The hot spot is wider, brighter, and the corona is more intense throughout. That's one great thing about pictures, sometimes they reveal what the eye cannot.


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## greenlight (Jul 7, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> I look at this light a bit different. It is a 3 stage light, with only a single medium stage being adjustable. The other 2 stages are fixed, Max Hi; and Min LOW. The big disappointment for me is that you lose the memory of the adjustable setting when you access the fixed settings. Whether you want it or not, the last fixed setting accessed replaces the adjustable setting in the memory. For the user who wants his light to quickly come on in Max or minimum every time, this would seem to be a quick and convenient way of setting one of these fixed stages into the memory. For the user who wants to access his user defined setting most of the time, this is only convenient until he accesses one of other 2 stages. He then has to reset his adjustable stage.


That's a valid consideration.


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## Ty_Bower (Jul 7, 2008)

Imothep said:


> There are fingerprints on the led lens, you can clearly see them on low.
> Does anybody know how to disassemble the reflector head for cleaning purposes?



Don't try. Anything you do will almost certainly make it worse. You'll end up with specs of dust in there, or worse yet you'll accidentally touch the reflector. Then you'll have fingerprints on the reflector - until you try to clean that too, and strip off the mirror finish.

Leave it alone. It isn't affecting the output in the slightest bit. Too many well-intentioned reflector cleaners have walked away in tears... :mecry:


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## 4sevens (Jul 7, 2008)

Imothep said:


> Well, its definitely on the outer side of the epoxy dome. That is clearly visible when I slighly move the flashlight while watching the led.
> 
> I tried to make two more pics but since I don't have a macro lens they are not as good as they could be.


Imothep, I'm sorry your light. It shouldn't affect the output noticably.
Please contact our customer service department and our technicians will give
it a good cleaning. I have spoken to NiteCore and this won't happen again.
They are appreciative of this feedback - they do not see this as a complaint 
but rather a great opportunity for improvement!


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## yaesumofo (Jul 7, 2008)

Why is the next best thing Eneloops?
Personally I find their performance rather poor.
Just because a battery comes charged and holds a charge for a while longer than a "stock" NimH cell doesn't make it better IMHO.
A good Sanyo 2700 mAh AA Nimh cell is a better battery IMHO. It's capacity is much higher. The rated number of C/D cycles is greater for a stock NiMh cell than an eneloop. 
While they are a great marketing package I have yet to find any advantage to Eneloops...Yet.
I have an open mind about it though.
In my use of AA Nimh cells I always get better (MUCH) with my 2700 mAh sanyo cells.

I suspect there are better batteries than the Sanyo's but I don't own them.
Yaesumofo 





LA OZ said:


> AW + Charger would be ideal for the D10 but the start up cost you have to consider. The next best thing is to pair with Eneloops.


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## Imothep (Jul 8, 2008)

4sevens said:


> Imothep, I'm sorry your light. It shouldn't affect the output noticably.
> Please contact our customer service department and our technicians will give
> it a good cleaning. I have spoken to NiteCore and this won't happen again.
> They are appreciative of this feedback - they do not see this as a complaint
> but rather a great opportunity for improvement!



Well, thanks for the help, but I'll wait for the second D10 I ordered. One of them will be a present for my father and since he doesn't care about fingerprints, he will get this one.  :devil:


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## SunnyQueensland (Jul 8, 2008)

Imothep said:


> Well, thanks for the help, but I'll wait for the second D10 I ordered. One of them will be a present for my father and since he doesn't care about fingerprints, he will get this one.  :devil:



You could be waiting a while, mine has been man-handled as well...  It is not enough to change my opinion however, it's still a great light. :thumbsup:


Received mine in Brisbane, Australia this afternoon. That's fast. :naughty:


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## gunga (Jul 8, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Why is the next best thing Eneloops?
> Personally I find their performance rather poor.
> Just because a battery comes charged and holds a charge for a while longer than a "stock" NimH cell doesn't make it better IMHO.
> A good Sanyo 2700 mAh AA Nimh cell is a better battery IMHO. It's capacity is much higher. ... While they are a great marketing package I have yet to find any advantage to Eneloops...Yet.
> ...


 
Wow, somehow you missed the dozens of threads and 1000+ posts on why eneloops are good and many high cpacity nimh suffer from very fast discharge (days/weeks in some cases).

While it is true if you use your lights with batteries right off the charger, the hi-cap ones are better, that's not quite the case if you store your lights for a bit or don't use and charge them frequently.

I'm quite surprised by this post given the abundant information on eneloop (as well as other LSD nimh battery) benefits.

:thinking:


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## Marduke (Jul 8, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Why is the next best thing Eneloops?
> Personally I find their performance rather poor.
> Just because a battery comes charged and holds a charge for a while longer than a "stock" NimH cell doesn't make it better IMHO.
> A good Sanyo 2700 mAh AA Nimh cell is a better battery IMHO. It's capacity is much higher. The rated number of C/D cycles is greater for a stock NiMh cell than an eneloop.
> ...



More capacity than your 2700 after 2-4 weeks
Less voltage sag (lower internal resistance) = brighter light
Can withstand higher discharge rates
More C/D cycles in reality than most brands
More robust - tolerates abuse better
Easier logistics with fewer maintainence charges.


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## Imothep (Jul 8, 2008)

SunnyQueensland said:


> You could be waiting a while, mine has been man-handled as well...  It is not enough to change my opinion however, it's still a great light. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Received mine in Brisbane, Australia this afternoon. That's fast. :naughty:



Received the second one today, no fingerprints, problem solved.


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## LowBat (Jul 10, 2008)

The Nitecore D10 is advertised to be 130 lumens for 50 minutes, while the Fenix L1D-Q5 is advertised to be 120 lumens for 90 minutes. Is there something here I'm missing or is the L1D-Q5 a significantly more efficient flashlight?


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## EXCALIBUR1 (Jul 10, 2008)

LowBat said:


> The Nitecore D10 is advertised to be 130 lumens for 50 minutes, while the Fenix L1D-Q5 is advertised to be 120 lumens for 90 minutes. Is there something here I'm missing or is the L1D-Q5 a significantly more efficient flashlight?


That's why I'm sticking with my L1D Q5 for a helmet bike light. The longer runtime of the L1D Q5 on Turbo is just about right for my night riding needs.


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## itch808 (Jul 10, 2008)

LowBat said:


> The Nitecore D10 is advertised to be 130 lumens for 50 minutes, while the Fenix L1D-Q5 is advertised to be 120 lumens for 90 minutes. Is there something here I'm missing or is the L1D-Q5 a significantly more efficient flashlight?



Is the L1D's rating on primaries or lithiums? The D10/EX10 is rated for 80mins @ 130 on Lithiums which would be pretty comparable.


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## Marduke (Jul 10, 2008)

LowBat said:


> The Nitecore D10 is advertised to be 130 lumens for 50 minutes, while the Fenix L1D-Q5 is advertised to be 120 lumens for 90 minutes. Is there something here I'm missing or is the L1D-Q5 a significantly more efficient flashlight?



Emitter vs OTF lumens

130 OTF lumens for 50 minutes vs ~ 85-90 OTF lumens for 90 minutes


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## AvroArrow (Jul 10, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> I look at this light a bit different. It is a 3 stage light, with only a single medium stage being adjustable. The other 2 stages are fixed, Max Hi; and Min LOW. The big disappointment for me is that you lose the memory of the adjustable setting when you access the fixed settings. Whether you want it or not, the last fixed setting accessed replaces the adjustable setting in the memory. For the user who wants his light to quickly come on in Max or minimum every time, this would seem to be a quick and convenient way of setting one of these fixed stages into the memory. For the user who wants to access his user defined setting most of the time, this is only convenient until he accesses one of other 2 stages. He then has to reset his adjustable stage.



^ I couldn't have said it any better myself. I initially thought that the middle programmable stage was saved to memory and that it would be something like a 3-stage HDS/Novatac with a fixed non-programmable max and min. When I found out that after you jumped to max or min from the "temporary" middle brightness setting that you had to reset the programmed mode again, _every single time_ after you jump to high or low, I was sorely disappointed. This is also why I haven't bought a D10/EX10 yet, despite the glowing reviews and very reasonable price. I would have preferred a 3-stage fixed/non-programmable light to one that I'd have to reset the middle mode after going high or low.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 10, 2008)

AvroArrow said:


> ^ I couldn't have said it any better myself. I initially thought that the middle programmable stage was saved to memory and that it would be something like a 3-stage HDS/Novatac with a fixed non-programmable max and min. When I found out that after you jumped to max or min from the "temporary" middle brightness setting that you had to reset the programmed mode again, _every single time_ after you jump to high or low, I was sorely disappointed. This is also why I haven't bought a D10/EX10 yet, despite the glowing reviews and very reasonable price. I would have preferred a 3-stage fixed/non-programmable light to one that I'd have to reset the middle mode after going high or low.


Although I would have preferred the operation as you describe, I'm happy with my D10 and if they come out with an updated version then I'll order the newer one and either relegate the one I have now to the car, present or sell it.

If you have other lights you're really happy with then it may be unnecessary to buy one of these, but I still think you'd like it just for the combination of quality/feel/brightness/extreme low beam and beautiful beam wash with perfect hot spot.


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## bltkmt (Jul 10, 2008)

I would be happy to buy one from one of you dissatisfied users.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 10, 2008)

bltkmt said:


> I would be happy to buy one from one of you dissatisfied users.


I think BabyDoc might be the only dissatisfied user, but he's still probably not going to let go of it just yet! 

It's good to have these threads like this that lets everyone see the good/bad in a given product and choose for themselves.


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## mighty82 (Jul 10, 2008)

kaichu dento said:


> It's good to have these threads like this that lets everyone see the good/bad in a given product and choose for themselves.


+1 As long as people are allowed to tell about both good and bad experiences without being attacked for it


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## kaichu dento (Jul 10, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> +1 As long as people are allowed to tell about both good and bad experiences without being attacked for it


And I'll see you a +1!

When people get knocked down for trying to post their opinions then it disadvantages everyone else in decision making.


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## StandardBattery (Jul 12, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> I look at this light a bit different. It is a 3 stage light, with only a single medium stage being adjustable. The other 2 stages are fixed, Max Hi; and Min LOW. The big disappointment for me is that you lose the memory of the adjustable setting when you access the fixed settings. Whether you want it or not, the last fixed setting accessed replaces the adjustable setting in the memory. For the user who wants his light to quickly come on in Max or minimum every time, this would seem to be a quick and convenient way of setting one of these fixed stages into the memory. For the user who wants to access his user defined setting most of the time, this is only convenient until he accesses one of other 2 stages. He then has to reset his adjustable stage.


*+1 E**xactly!*

*I'm afraid this impule buy didn't turn out the way I expected either. OK it's my fault I jumped in without enough research and careful reading. However maybe, like you said, if I think about the light differently and forget about trying to think of it as some derivative of the Novatac interface I might be able to adjust. There is much to like about the light, but I guess I better stick to my normal procedure of research first. It was fun, but the party did last too long. *

*I took a break to play with other new lights, and I'll come back to the D10 with less expectations and see if it might have a place in the rotation or task list. You would have thought I'd remember to be cautious of a product with "Smart" in it's name. At least it is AA which means I can ship it around the world and they'll be able to find a battery for it. Waiting for V2, the "Smarter" PD.*


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## Splunk_Au (Jul 12, 2008)

Just curious, is it correct that your runtime graphs are non-cooled as shown in their titles? The graphs seem more similar to those which are cooled as compared to the graphs on light-reviews.com

Also, how come you're graphs show a much steeper slope at the end of the battery life? Seems quite different with you're EX10 running for about 1hour 55 min while the graph on light-reviews.com only last till about 50 min with regulation. I realise you use SureFire batteries while the other uses Energizer, but more than double the runtime? 

Looking at a comparable test, your D10 on Eneloop maintains regulation till about the 1 hours mark while light-reviews only managed 45 mins... 25% still quite a bit since Eneloops are quality cells and such variation in capacity is highly unlikely.


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## Mostly (Jul 12, 2008)

Interesting re: runtimes... if memory serves, though, this would not be the first time that light-reviews.com had a significantly shorter runtime than other reviewers of the same product. 

*This_is_nascar*, thanks for the detailed review! I was all set to get an LRI Proton Pro after reading your quick review thread on it from a few months ago, and am still in awe over Proton Pro's runtime on low, but I think I'll get a D10 now instead--for only a few dollars more, a much higher high (if I'm reading your graphs right), more durable product, similar ramping interface, shorter body length, and a decently low low, though not with Proton Pro's amazingly long low runtime that I would want to use as a reading light. The ability to come on at levels other than high is a key improvement vs. the Pro too.


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## bdws1975 (Jul 12, 2008)

personally, I love my ex10. It's exactly what I expected, because I read all the reviews before buying, and I absolutely love the fit and finish. I liked it so much, I'm ordering a D10 and another ex10.

I also love the interface. I have no problem without the personal setting memory as the low and high are pretty much perfect for the different uses I will put it to. Also, anytime it 'malfunctions' I'm ableto easily attritube it to my inconsistency of use.

I have NO complaints.

Brett


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## 4sevens (Jul 12, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> ...You would have thought I'd remember to be cautious of a product with "Smart" in it's name. At least it is AA which means I can ship it around the world and they'll be able to find a battery for it. Waiting for V2, the "Smarter" PD.[/B]


Well, techincally it IS a little "smarter" than the original PD :nana: 

BTW, we have never claimed nor implied to replace or even resemble the 
arc4/hds/novatac


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## THE_dAY (Jul 19, 2008)

TIN, I appreciate all the time and effort it took to put the runtime graphs together.

They have been very helpful, thanks!


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## ViReN (Jul 19, 2008)

4sevens said:


> Well, techincally it IS a *little *"smarter" than the original PD :nana:
> 
> BTW, we have never claimed nor implied to replace or even resemble the
> arc4/hds/novatac



I would call it a LOT  smarter :nana:

Orignal PD was simple 2 level no memory... no electronic switching and no variable brightness .... where as NiteCore PD is all that & More .... with a much lesser cost than original PD ......so a LOT smarter .... wanna debate on that  :wave:


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## 4sevens (Aug 31, 2008)

ViReN said:


> I would call it a LOT  smarter :nana:
> 
> Orignal PD was simple 2 level no memory... no electronic switching and no variable brightness .... where as NiteCore PD is all that & More .... with a much lesser cost than original PD ......so a LOT smarter .... wanna debate on that  :wave:


Well we wanted "simple" to be more important than "smart." compared to 
some of the other clicky 10 times to get it to tricks, the SPD is not
quite as "smart"


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