# Super Barbo Diving Light for Javier in Spain with 3xMC-E and 2xIMR26500



## wquiles (May 22, 2009)

I started planning for this build almost 3 months ago, back on March 13 of 2009, when Javier proposed a bartering deal of additional hosts in exchange for a super bright light for diving:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2876727&postcount=28

Since his offer was very generous, I decided to build two lights instead of one:
- a high power reflectored solution (the one shown in this post)
- a neutral white wide angle (floody) light

The high power one was the more difficult, so I decided to do that one first. Most/all of the lessons learned with that one, should make it easier to do the flood light, since fitting the reflector is fairly time consuming.

I am not calling this a DIY since it was a little bit more involved that prior builds:
- single P7
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/222258
- single MC-E:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/226575


This particular build has been the longest build I have tried so far, and has taken me over two months to both order and get parts, some of which where not yet available (IMR cells), plus some pending work/proijects on my own “shop”. The build was very interesting since there were several questions to consider, including what LED configuration, what reflector to use, what power source, regulated or direct drive (and the efficiency of each solution), etc.. 

Although I had all of the ideas and steps mentally in my head before I started, I don't pre-plan every single step: I would work on one part, then think how I want to do the next one, sometimes trying something and then abandoning it for something else (here you see only the steps that worked out, otherwise it would have been even more photos for the rejects!). 

For this solution, I had seen a reflector that I felt would work great, so I started by ordering a triple reflector from Deal Extreme in Asia:







Of course the reflector does not fit on the head (too wide), but it seemed to focus well with a couple of the LED's I tried, so I decided to try ordering some MC-E's to see how it could work. Since Javier said he wanted something really bright, I ordered "M" bin MC-E's, which of course meant waiting additional time as these came from Asia. I still had the challenge of the cells, and how to drive the MC-E's, since the AW LiIon cells have not been available for some time, and the IMR26500 cells were not quite available just yet. I though about using a single A123 cell (two can't fit length-wise in my initial idea), and I even bought an "F" size cell, but it was too wide for the body, so that was eliminated as an option. 

The challenge was that I want to deliver about 2.8-3Amps to each emiter, but I only have either 1x or 2x LiIon cells to work with. I wanted a higly efficient solution for the power source, and although I love the hipCC (and I will be building some current regulated Barbo lights using this driver in the fture), the hipCC is a buck driver maxed at 2.8A, so nothing was working out well to power the LED's at max. 

Nothing seem to work until I saw a post from forum member *Techjunkie*, who had tested 3x MCE's from two IMR cells, in a 6P/2S arrangement. He tested the DD (Direct Drive) solution, but even at this large current load, the IMR cells did not sag, so he had to add high power resistors in series (two 0.47 Ohm in parallel) to bring the current to a "reasonable" level, specially if the 3x MC-E were wired in 6P2S - nominal current was around 4.2 Amps, which is within reason, but still too high for a regulated driver at high efficiency levels. Thanks to his help I was able to move on with the project, and that is the actual configuration that I am using here, which starts at about 88% efficient at 4.5Amps, and gets more and more efficient as the batteries drain. Thanks much *Techjunkie* 

Once the IMR cells arrived from AW, I had all of the piece parts to work on the project, so for the last 2-3 weeks I have been "putting" together Javier's special light. I started by modifying the reflector so that it would fit on the head:











The reflector is kind of deep, and once you put the emiters in place, the overall height would not allow the lens to fit. On top of that, to give me more room to wire the emiters in the required serial/parallel mode, I decided to use a star, which added 0.085” in height:






Here is additional height by the emiter itself:






Although I will for sure had to do some boring to take away some of the metal on the built-in heatsink in the head (more on that below), I decided to make the star a little bit thinner – the less metal taken from the head the better. To do that and not damage the wiring/soldering side of the star, I created a small “holder” for the star:






and I used my lathe and sand paper on a granite surface to take about 0.015” from the star:
















Once I got the stars thinner, I tested the overall solution, which worked as I had hoped (emiters not sanded flat yet in these pictures):
















So I soldered the emiters:






I also did grind away some of the edges since they need to be fairly close to each other, and I do not want to remove too much metal on the head close to edges:






I got the two 0.47 Ohm resistors from Radio Shack:
















I used thermal epoxy on them, and soldered the two in parallel:











I got about 0.21 Ohms (after taking in consideration the resistance of the probes themselves):






I used epoxy and a metal cup to provide electrical connectivity – this side faces the inside of the tailcap:
















The other side gets a spring (I decided to make the spring part of the battery carrier for several reasons, including allowing the host to be used with other future battery/driver options):






Here I am testing the overall height of the “battery” pack (still lacking the outer delrin sleeve) on my “gigantic” Starrett height gauge:











For the positive side of the battery, I am making a new positive contact out of Al, which will be housed in a delrin spacer, to provide electrical isolation:


























I then drill and chamfer to get the electrical connection:






This is how it looks like size-wise compared to both the IMR cell and the 18650 cell (I wanted to make sure the positive contact would work with various future/different cells):











I then proceeded to work on the delrin spacer for the positive contact:


























I gave both surfaces some deep scratches so that the epoxy would have some “mechanical” strength to prevent rotation from pulling the two apart:






I then got the positive wire connected – solder on both sides, very tight for a firm connection:






I then epoxied the two pieces:











I then started work on the delrin battery sleeve:


























For the power resistor, I made a shelf inside the battery carrier to limit its travel. Here is how it looks like:











Here is now how the assembled battery pack looks like, next to the host:






I then applied additional epoxy to the resistance module:











and created a delrin ring that goes on the inside of the battery carrier to keep everything aligned while I epoxied the resistor module to the end of the battery pack - the whole goal was to make everything solid and 100% reliable, in case the light was hit/dropped/etc:





















Back to the reflector/emiter combo, I am once again checking how much I have to remove from the head:






So I start work on the head:






Since I have the original drawings for this host as Javier made available last year, I know how much metal and where not to cut, so this was as most as I felt comfortable cutting without weakening the head. However, as you can see, it is not quite enough to get the emiters to fit:






So I set my mill to do some more cutting:
















and this is how it looks now:






and the emiters now fit:






and after a dry assembly, everything fits as I expected:






Back to the emiters, I started the soldering for the pairs that will be in parallel and in series:











I then drill and tapped one of the smaller existing holes, which will become my solid electrical negative contact:
















I used my Dremel tool to cut a small relief for the screw:











and this is how it looks like (dry fit – no epoxy yet):






I marked the back of the reflector to know where to apply the epoxy that will keep the reflector in place:






and I use thermal epoxy to glue the emiters to the head, while using the actual reflector to center the emiters in place:















and here is the head with the emiters perfectly centered:






Back on the lathe, I cleaned up both ends of the tube, specially removing the anodizing on the tailcap side for a good electrical contact:











Before seating the positive contact, I gave both surfaces some scratches to help the epoxy have a mechanical bond:






The body itself centers and keeps the positive contact aligned – it is just a very light friction fit:






Then use the battery pack to apply some pressure while the epoxy sets:











this is how it looks like once everything is dry:






Once set, I can proceed to wire the emiters:
















Here is the screw and negative contact wire:






All wired up:






And then, the test with the bench supply, first at about 100mA:











then about 1Amp:











about 2Amps:











about 3Amps:











about 4Amps:











and finally 5Amps:











Here is how the beam looks like against the wall – you can see the 3 emiter beams:






and here is a blended to show how it would look like without reflectors – just a massive flood:






here is the beamshot with the reflector in place – simply awesome!






Here is the assembled light. I just need to add the water-sealing silicone to seal the head and main tube – everything else is complete:






This completes the build. Beamshots below on post #2.


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## wquiles (May 22, 2009)

Beamshots. FujiFilm S100FS. Manual exposure of 1.5Sec @ F2.8, lens on wide angle. Camera on a tripod.

1) Surefire M6 - MN21 - Regulated LiIon battery pack, fully charged.
2) My own P7 Barbo super Host - Direct Drive from 18650 LiIon cell, fully charged.
3) New Super Barbo Light with 3x MC-E M-bin, Direct Driven from 2x IMR26500 cells, with 0.21Ohm resistance

Group 1: Side of house next door
Baseline picture - no flashlights:






M6: (over exposed due to close distance)






Barbo P7: (over exposed due to close distance)






Barbo 3x MC-E: (over exposed due to close distance)







Group 2: Side of other house next door
Baseline picture - no flashlights:






M6:






Barbo P7: 






Barbo 3x MC-E:







Group 3: Street looking into trees
M6:






Barbo P7: 






Barbo 3x MC-E:







Group 4: Looking deep into the trees
M6:






Barbo P7: 






Barbo 3x MC-E:






Comparison side-by-side. M6 on the left, 3xMC-E on the right







Waking along a sidewalk:
M6:






Barbo 3x MC-E:







Early comments: 
1) the 3x MC-E version is much brighter than the M6, but the M6 has more throw given its larger single reflector and single point of light.
2) I am surprised as to how much useful wider the sidebeam is in the 3x MC-E.
3) Up close, it is almost too painfully bright to use (in this regard the single P7 light is very nice).
4) I only did quick ON/OFF to take pictures of all lights, but the 3x MC-E light was definitely getting warmer - good thing that this will be underwater during actual use 

Will


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## donn_ (May 22, 2009)




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## darkzero (May 22, 2009)

:naughty: :twothumbs :wow:


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## Barbarin (May 23, 2009)

Wow!!!

This one is a a warm tint, wide angle lght, dedicated to video and photo and asked Will to make to me.

It looks I'm going to have a nice lighting system!!

Javier


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## wquiles (May 23, 2009)

Barbarin said:


> Wow!!!
> 
> This one is a a warm tint, wide angle lght, dedicated to video and photo and asked Will to make to me.
> 
> ...



The high output, natural tint, flood version will be the next one I will make for you. This one in particular uses a reflectored solution to give you a better range/throw, and used "M" bin MC-E emiters to give you the most output I could pack in this package. In other words, you will have to wait a little bit more for the wide-angle, photo-version of this host, but I think you will be pleased with the high-output longer-range version first 

Will


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## olrac (May 23, 2009)

:thumbsup:


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## Barbarin (May 23, 2009)

Anyway it looks great!!!

I have some other proposals for you..

Javier


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## cmacclel (May 23, 2009)

Looks good Will. I hate how the parallel Stars are designed. I would like then to have 2 contact points instead of 8! They should have 3 flavor of Star's

Series 
Parallel
2S2P

Also Alcohol takes that Flux off easy.

How are you wiring this up?? If you can fit 2 "C" size cells wouldn't a 2S2P be perfect?

I re-flowed a bunch of MC-E's last week. It was my first experience with solder paste. It was cool watching the emitter center itself!

Has it been 1-2 hours yet 

Mac


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## wquiles (May 23, 2009)

Well, two hours was "my" plan, but my lovely wife had "other" plans for me this morning, so it was not until this afternoon that I was able to finish. Post #1 has been updated with a "few" photos - I hope you have broadband 

I will update post #2 with the obligatory outdoor night beamshots later tonight :devil:

Will


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## donn_ (May 23, 2009)

:wow:


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## cmacclel (May 23, 2009)

Wow will that beam looks great. Is that how it looks in person? I have one of those reflectors somewhere 


Mac


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## darkzero (May 23, 2009)

Beautiful work as usual Will! I love seeing the mechanics of a build & especially the tools used for the build! :thumbsup:


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## Aircraft800 (May 23, 2009)

Will,

Can you postpone delivery of this project till AFTER June 6th  I believe that more outdoor testing and beamshots are necessary! :laughing:


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## wquiles (May 23, 2009)

Post #2 updated with beamshots :devil:


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## wquiles (May 23, 2009)

Barbarin said:


> Anyway it looks great!!!
> 
> I have some other proposals for you..


I am all ears buddy 





cmacclel said:


> Wow will that beam looks great. Is that how it looks in person? I have one of those reflectors somewhere


Mac - I agree with you on the stars. It makes it hard to wire them :scowl:

The beam looks really that good in person, and as expected (given the 3 small reflectors), it has a wicked sidebeam 





Aircraft800 said:


> Will,
> 
> Can you postpone delivery of this project till AFTER June 6th  I believe that more outdoor testing and beamshots are necessary! :laughing:


That will be up to Javier - it is "his" light - I am just the temporary keeper/custodian 

We just need to find a way for Javier to "loan" us the light for a little bit longer :devil:


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## ledaholic (May 23, 2009)

Aircraft800 said:


> Will,
> 
> Can you postpone delivery of this project till AFTER June 6th  I believe that more outdoor testing and beamshots are necessary! :laughing:



+1


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## cmacclel (May 23, 2009)

Man I feel like an idiot....I've been looking at the wiring and for the life of me cannot figure it out! Maybe I need to bust out a notepad!

Mac


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## wquiles (May 23, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> Man I feel like an idiot....I've been looking at the wiring and for the life of me cannot figure it out! Maybe I need to bust out a notepad!
> 
> Mac



Mac - don't feel bad. I did like 3-4 wrong wiring diagrams in my notes before I got it right, and when soldering, I was constantly measuring and checking everything 2-3 times.

Here is the electrical diagram:
Positive Contact -> 6 emiters in parallel -> 6 emiters in parallel -> Negative Contact

The trick is that those 6 emiters in parallel are made up from 4 from one star and 2 from another star. This is the part that makes it more confusing.


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## cmacclel (May 23, 2009)

wquiles said:


> Mac - don't feel bad. I did like 3-4 wrong wiring diagrams in my notes before I got it right, and when soldering, I was constantly measuring and checking everything 2-3 times.
> 
> Here is the electrical diagram:
> Positive Contact -> 6 emiters in parallel -> 6 emiters in parallel -> Negative Contact
> ...


 

Thanks for the explanation! though you did explain what you did in the beging posts...I must of missed it.

What are you doing here? Endmill with a lathe?


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## wquiles (May 23, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> Thanks for the explanation! though you did explain what you did in the beging posts...I must of missed it.
> 
> What are you doing here? Endmill with a lathe?
> 
> (snip pic)



Since there is a small hole through the head, I would normally use a boring bar to bore out the surface I needed to seat the stars. However, the boring bar I had was too large for the hole, so I used that center cutting mill to start a 1/2" wide hole, which the boring bar would then had no problem in expanding. I owe that trick to Brian ( *Mirage_Man* )


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## LED Zeppelin (May 24, 2009)

Amazing work Will!


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## ICUDoc (May 24, 2009)

Nice one Will- the output of that beast is actually just a little scary in the photos!!


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## Barbarin (May 24, 2009)

W-O-W.

I have no words, Will.

By the way, I'll send you some parts for you to make more things... For example our new P7/MCE reflectors get 135% higher readings on spot and 35% better "overall" We will talk by phone this week.

Stay tunned. I'm sure Will is going to make the best LED thrower in the world really soon.

Javier


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## brighterisbetter (May 24, 2009)

darkzero said:


> I love seeing the mechanics of a build & especially the tools used for the build!


+1, the documentation of your projects and the way they're shared with the rest of us is a real treat.


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## MWClint (May 24, 2009)

OMG!


everything about this build is amazing. cant wait to see the warm white version as well.


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## Illum (May 24, 2009)

:wow: :kewlpics: :thanks:

but geezez.. next time post a warning sign on the pics..Firefox hanged like explorers going to crash and I'm here panicking and trying to figure out what was the issue.


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## wquiles (May 24, 2009)

Thank you guys - it was a fun project to do 




Illum said:


> :wow: :kewlpics: :thanks:
> 
> but geezez.. next time post a warning sign on the pics..Firefox hanged like explorers going to crash and I'm here panicking and trying to figure out what was the issue.


Sorry about that mate. I tried it on Mozilla Firefox (Ubuntu Linux) and on IE 6.0 (Windows XP) without problems, so I was not expecting browser problems


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## greenpea76 (May 24, 2009)

I'm not worthy!!!

My firefox loaded all pics ok.
Thanks for those progress pics. 
WOW........


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## DM51 (May 25, 2009)

Fantastic thread. A master-class in how to do it. And what a tremendous result!


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## greenLED (May 25, 2009)

Will... not bright enough. 
:nana:

Just kidding.

I love reading through your build threads. :twothumbs & :bow: for some excellent work!


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## NoFair (May 25, 2009)

Beautiful build 

That would light up Norwegian winter waters brilliantly


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## wquiles (May 26, 2009)

Thank you guys


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## keysandslots (May 27, 2009)

I hate to post yet another repetitive response but, wow! Will, you are part machinist, part artist and part alchemist. 

Randy


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## KingSmono (May 27, 2009)

Wow, amazing work! And thanks for taking the time to take all of the pics and document the whole process step-by-step. I'm sure if you didn't have to worry about doing that, you could've finished the project in half the time! So THANKS!! :bow:


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## saabluster (May 27, 2009)

Incredible job Will! I think you work as hard on your documentation as you do your build. 

+1 on seeing it at the GTG. Hope he is kind enough to let others have a gander. Of course I wouldn't blame him if he asked to have it immediately.


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## wquiles (May 27, 2009)

Thank you guys 




saabluster said:


> +1 on seeing it at the GTG. Hope he is kind enough to let others have a gander. Of course I wouldn't blame him if he asked to have it immediately.



I actually was able to talk to Javier in real time today - very nice guy indeed. It is great to finally put a voice behind the name. 

Javier of course wants the light, but he is letting us "play" with it a little bit before sending it to him in Spain, so I will bring it along to the get-together in June 6th. I will them promptly package it and sent it to Javier the following Monday 

Will


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## saabluster (May 27, 2009)

wquiles said:


> Thank you guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thank you Javier!


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## TooSharp (May 28, 2009)

WOW!! Awesome how to. Wish I had all those cool tools!!!


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## wquiles (May 29, 2009)

TooSharp said:


> WOW!! Awesome how to. Wish I had all those cool tools!!!



Thanks 


Regarding the tools ... well, that has taken 4-5 years ... and a very supportive/understanding wife


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## Daylight (Jun 6, 2009)

This is a fantastic job Will, you are goooooood!!!! :twothumbs

Javier is a lucky man.

Maybe in a future we can see a light like this next to our bed.


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## wquiles (Jun 7, 2009)

Muchas gracias :thumbsup:

I took the "monster" light to the getogether meeting here in Texas, and folks were pretty happy to see it in person. Now to pack it up and send it to Javier, so that he can properly test it under actual diving conditions 

Will


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## saabluster (Jun 8, 2009)

wquiles said:


> Muchas gracias :thumbsup:
> 
> I took the "monster" light to the getogether meeting here in Texas, and folks were pretty happy to see it in person. Now to pack it up and send it to Javier, so that he can properly test it under actual diving conditions
> 
> Will


Thanks to both of you for that treat. That is a *very* bright light.


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## wquiles (Jun 9, 2009)

Thanks Mike 

I have to admit being a little bit sad sending the light to its new owner, but Javier will give the light more use than I ever could


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## Techjunkie (Jun 10, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> Looks good Will. I hate how the parallel Stars are designed. I would like then to have 2 contact points instead of 8! They should have 3 flavor of Star's
> 
> Series
> Parallel
> ...


 
I've been making 2S2P stars by drilling/scratching through two of the five the trace routes on the serial star boards, leaving only the inner-most trace closest to the emitter and the ones between the contact pads in tact. Like this:


 




wquiles said:


> Mac - don't feel bad. I did like 3-4 wrong wiring diagrams in my notes before I got it right, and when soldering, I was constantly measuring and checking everything 2-3 times.
> 
> Here is the electrical diagram:
> Positive Contact -> 6 emiters in parallel -> 6 emiters in parallel -> Negative Contact
> ...


 
That had me going cross-eyed too. I was sure you were missing a wire or something or running 4 into 2 and 2 into 4 in parallel, like:







I guess as long as you have six in and six out, then the current across each die is the same.

All in all, this is an awesome build, Will! Really nice job! This is my kind of torch.

Congratulations to Javier on a beautiful purchase too!


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## wquiles (Jun 10, 2009)

Thanks again for your help - it was your Emiter/Battery Combination that allowed me to get this project going 

Will


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## kmjelle (Sep 27, 2009)

Very nice. Do you have link to the reflector? Is it designed for MC-E, or modified?


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## olrac (Sep 27, 2009)

kmjelle said:


> Very nice. Do you have link to the reflector? Is it designed for MC-E, or modified?




http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11921


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## wquiles (Sep 29, 2009)

olrac said:


> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11921


Yup, that is the exact reflector that I used


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## swrdply400mrelay (Mar 4, 2010)

will,

I have been reading a few of your projects, and all I can says is HOLY CRAP

Please tell me you are an electrical engineer


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## richardcpf (Mar 4, 2010)

swrdply400mrelay said:


> will,
> 
> I have been reading a few of your projects, and all I can says is HOLY CRAP
> 
> Please tell me you are an electrical engineer


 
CNC, DC power supply unit and a $300 multimeter, thats every flashaholic's dream...  Awesome modding skills!! 

*And nice neighborhood!*


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## wquiles (Mar 4, 2010)

swrdply400mrelay said:


> will,
> 
> I have been reading a few of your projects, and all I can says is HOLY CRAP
> 
> Please tell me you are an electrical engineer


Thanks 

Yes, BSEE and MSEE. The machining I am still learning, both via hands-on (trial and error!) and with lots of help from more experienced machinists here in the forum.



richardcpf said:


> CNC, DC power supply unit and a $300 multimeter, thats every flashaholic's dream...  Awesome modding skills!!
> 
> *And nice neighborhood!*


Thanks, but it is all manual machining - no CNC yet. Maybe one of these days


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## Turboled (Mar 5, 2010)

:twothumbs Well done. Very nice light and excellent documentation in pictures.


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## wquiles (Mar 5, 2010)

Turboled said:


> :twothumbs Well done. Very nice light and excellent documentation in pictures.



Thank you


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