# Stanley HID by pass to stay 60W???



## bullettproof (Apr 28, 2009)

I remember reading something that the Stanley HID initially starts up at 60W to have the light turn on instantly.I just bought one today and was curious if it can be modded to stay at that high wattage? I guess you could put a 50W bulb in it and overdrive.Im not sure if a 60W is made?

Would anyone care to chime in????


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Apr 28, 2009)

Besides the obvious stress on the bulb I wonder how the ballast would handle being over driven for an extended period of time?


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## bullettproof (Apr 28, 2009)

Im curious to see also if anyone has done this mod yet? Im sure runtime would be reduced to probably half but who cares 60W is amazingly bright.If you could put a 50W bulb in it I think it would really be Amazing.


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## Mjolnir (Apr 28, 2009)

It would be brighter, but runtime would basically be cut in half. I happen to think that 10-15 minutes is too short to really be useful.


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## bullettproof (Apr 28, 2009)

I figured that but you can change the Batteries out like Lux did.I no it lightened it but I wonder if runtime was increased?


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## Patriot (Apr 29, 2009)

I'd have to see the post where it was starting at 60W but if it indeed is, it could never maintain that because it would overheat the ballast very quickly.


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## Norm (Apr 29, 2009)

My understanding is all HID's draw higher current at startup, but that doesn't translate to higher light output. The higher current is because of the higher voltage necessary to get the bulb to strike. 

If it was possible to maintain the higher voltage I'm sure as previously stated ballast and bulb life would be very short.

Why try to stress things to there absolute limit? when higher wattage HID's are already available and will run comfortably within there design limits.

I must be getting old I just don't get the point of running things way beyond there limits.

Norm


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## bullettproof (Apr 29, 2009)

The Stanley is not like other Hid's they overdrive it with a lot of power so there is no lag time at all with startup.It is supposedly 60W and it is at that for about the first 10 seconds maybe a little longer.When it gets to the warmed up stage it then kicks back down to 35W.But for those few seconds its at 60W it is unbelivably bright.You can see it kick down quite a bit.I would have to say its at least 4500 Lumens when its in that mode.Not saying that in 35W is not bright but the 60W will blow your mind.The light starts so fast its crazy!!!


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## bullettproof (Apr 29, 2009)

bullettproof said:


> The Stanley is not like other Hid's they overdrive it with a lot of power so there is no lag time at all with startup.It is supposedly 60W and it is at that for about the first 10 seconds maybe a little longer.When it gets to the warmed up stage it then kicks back down to 35W.But for those few seconds its at 60W it is unbelivably bright.You can see it kick down quite a bit.I would have to say its at least 4500 Lumens when its in that mode.Not saying that in 35W is not bright but the 60W will blow your mind.The light starts so fast its crazy!!!


 
Heres a video you can see what Im talking about better watch it cut back down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB0ZN5AVqao


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## Norm (Apr 29, 2009)

bullettproof said:


> Heres a video you can see what Im talking about better watch it cut back down.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB0ZN5AVqao


Thanks for the video, must be very frustrating to see your light dim down as it warms up, it's great to watch a normal HID grow in intensity. 
Norm


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## BVH (Apr 29, 2009)

IIRC, Mr Ted Bear got the 60 Watt figure from the distributor. Maybe he'll chime in?


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## XeRay (Apr 29, 2009)

BVH said:


> IIRC, Mr Ted Bear got the 60 Watt figure from the distributor. Maybe he'll chime in?


 
That could also be input wattage to the ballast (reduced by the ballast efficiency, whatever that is) or it could be ballast output (after the normal ballast losses).

If it is the first possibility, then output is more likely about 50 watts during this initial Phase then dropping back to 35 watts.

Either scenario is a possibility. It would be easy with a meter to measure the voltage and current into the ballast during this initial brighter startup phase being discussed to determine which of these is the case. The ballast efficiency is likely in the 80-87% range, 83-85% being most likely.


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## bullettproof (Apr 29, 2009)

XeRay said:


> That could also be input wattage to the ballast (reduced by the ballast efficiency, whatever that is) or it could be ballast output (after the normal ballast losses).
> 
> If it is the first possibility, then output is more likely about 50 watts during this initial Phase then dropping back to 35 watts.
> 
> Either scenario is a possibility. It would be easy with a meter to measure the voltage and current into the ballast during this initial brighter startup phase being discussed to determine which of these is the case. The ballast efficiency is likely in the 80-87% range, 83-85% being most likely.


 
Im glad you guys can see the video and can see what Im talking about.Even if its 50W that is Awesome.I wonder how the ballast was designed? Maybe it is a 50W ballast thats been programed to drop down to 35W.This could have been done to cut down on startup time and to have a more efficient output with longer runtime.I have never seen another HID do what the Stanley does on start up so it has me wondering.

I dont care about run time thats why I have an AE Xenide 25W for.I no one of the experts modders/builders can figure out what needs to be bypassed.I wouldnt mind dropping a 50W bulb in it and changing the batteries.Last night when it was at that 50W+ for a few seconds the output is Amazing Amazing!!!!!!!!


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## Mjolnir (Apr 29, 2009)

Apparently they said that is was overdriven by "30 watts or so," which would put at around 60 watts. 
It is kind of depressing when the output goes back down, but interestingly enough, it isn't all that much brighter. It really does show the logarithmic nature of human sight. It definitely does not seem like it is _double_ the brightness. That makes it not as worth it in my opinion.


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## bullettproof (Apr 29, 2009)

Its at least 1200 Lumens difference take it to a dark field.I noticed a lot of difference.


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## Drivers100 (Apr 29, 2009)

These are the reading I took.

Start-up= 7.9A at 13v for 5 seconds
Input amps at 13v= 3.9A
Input amps at 15.5v= 2.9a
Low voltage Ballast shutdown= 10.2v
High voltage ballast shutdown= 15.5v

It should be about 60w to the lamp.


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## Mjolnir (Apr 29, 2009)

I do agree that there is a difference, but because of the logarithmic perception of brightness, it does not seem like as much as it really is.


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## Patriot (Apr 29, 2009)

bullettproof said:


> This could have been done to cut down on startup time and to have a more efficient output with longer runtime.I have never seen another HID do what the Stanley does on start up so it has me wondering.




That's correct, it's purely done to reduce start up time which I think is a great feature. Too bad the L35 wasn't designed with it. The Polarion lights also do the same thing. The PH50 runs at 50W and give a generic lux reading of 374 during a ceiling bounce test. During the first 5-7 seconds of run it peaks at 546 lux. 

The reasons that the Stanley and or the Polarion can't continue to operate at those levels is because it would eventually destroy the components. If the PH50 can't handle contious run at "start up voltage" due to thermal concerns, the plastic bodied (which acts as an insulator) Stanley wouldn't have a chance of lasting for a full battery run, even if it was possilble to override.


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Apr 30, 2009)

I have never been the voice of reason and I'm not going to start now! What if someone tried this but only ran it in 10-20 second increments(like I do with my spotlights)? No over heating of the ballast-no over driving the bulb for too long. It would take a really stupid and futile effort on someone's part to try something this reckless-and we're just the guys to do it!










Anyone willing to take one for the team???


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## 14U2NV (Apr 5, 2011)

Has anyone figured out how to keep the Stanley (or the Ryobi HID) in the start-up or overdrive mode?

John


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## seven11 (Apr 5, 2011)

bullettproof said:


> Its at least 1200 Lumens difference take it to a dark field.I noticed a lot of difference.



I can definitely attest to the difference in the light output from the initial startup. It is a major difference...almost like a completely different light at startup.


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## Apollo Cree (Apr 5, 2011)

Yes, the brightness drops after the initial burst, but then it climbs as the bulb heats up. Someone should get two lights with roughly equal brightness when hot and see if the initial burst is actually any brighter than the warmed up brightness. I believe the design is intended to match the ultimate brightness when it's first turned on.


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## BVH (Apr 6, 2011)

Way back when, I did some non-scientific testing with a light meter and the warmed-up output was significantly under the over-driven startup output.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 6, 2011)

bullettproof said:


> I guess you could put a 50W bulb in it and overdrive.


 


bullettproof said:


> I wouldnt mind dropping a 50W bulb in it and changing the batteries.



Changing to 50W bulb will not get you to 50W power, the out put is dictated by ballast, not the lamp. More likely that you will lose some throw while get similar lumens as most 50W/55w bulbs has longer arc gap than 35W bulbs, resulting a loss in throw while driven by same ballast. 

However, if you switch to Philips 35W HID bulbs, you may get up to 30% lumen increase while doing nothing to the ballast, they do have higher lamp efficiency than most generic HID bulbs. 

There's not a lot room in that light to upgrade batteries. HID ballast can be twicked to increase watts, there was one guy into doing that & he managed twicking a 43w ballast up to around 100w. That looked like a very hard job to do & I haven't seen another guy doing that. 

A simpler mod he did was finding a variable resistor pod, which by turning it, he got about 18% more power (Which reminded me that his CPF name is "morepower" ) but not all HID ballast are made the same & you may not find that "pod" if you open it up.

High start-up current reduces start-up time, but that ballast will not last if you managed to twick the ballast into running constant 60W power. A great deal of additional heat sinking 
will be needed & that stanley don't have room for it.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 6, 2011)

Apollo Cree said:


> Yes, the brightness drops after the initial burst, but then it climbs as the bulb heats up. Someone should get two lights with roughly equal brightness when hot and see if the initial burst is actually any brighter than the warmed up brightness. I believe the design is intended to match the ultimate brightness when it's first turned on.


 
*A typical HID ballast do have three current phases*:
*Ignition Start*: Highest current, a spike under 24KV ignition
*Warm up*: Mid level current, this helps lamp to reach full brightness faster
*Normal:* Lowest current, running under constant power. 

The start up spike under 24KV ignition is short & hard to catch, 
I wonder if it'll kill a few meters if one do catch it? 

In the warm up stage, Using Higher Warm up current reduces warm-up time but also reduces lamp life.

early Stanly model appears to use much higher warm up current than most automotive HID ballasts. The warm up phase will be significantly brighter than normal running mode. 
This has been observed by many in the big long Stanley HID thread. Make sense 
for spotlights as few people care about lamp life. I had one a while ago & it had significantly
brighter warm up phase for a few seconds before drop down to normal. 

Later model Stanley appeared to have reduced the warm-up current according to some posts in that thread, the difference is no longer as obvious. So depends on which model in hand, one might hear different answers.


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## 14U2NV (Apr 20, 2011)

Any progress on this?

I thought I read a post where someone managed to keep a HID in the overdrive mode, but I can't find it.


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