# Commonly Used LED Emitter Index



## csshih

note: please do NOT copy this article without permission. All images are the sole property of their respective owners.

Because of thisthread, I've decided to do a formal writeup on the most popular LEDs used in flashlights to try to inform the learning flashaholics.

I placed this thread in the LED flashlight section so it is easier to find, and as it's more geared towards flashlight discussion.

More information will be added as more LEDs and manufacturers emerge, and as more people chime in on details I may have missed.
... still a work in progress!

Let's start with some popular manufacturers, then we'll go into further detail on the emitters themselves.

Cree Inc - Founded 1987 in North Carolina
Edison Opto Corporation - Founded 2001 in Taiwan
LedEngin, Inc. - Founded 2004 in California
Nichia Corporation - Founded 1956 in Japan
OSRAM Opto Semiconductors - Founded 1999 in Germany (joint venture between Osram and Infineon Technologies)
Philips LumiLEDs - Founded 1999 in California (joint venture between Philips and Agilent Technologies)
Seoul Semiconductor Co., Ltd - Founded 1992 in Korea
Luminus Devices - Founded 2002 in Massachusetts

There are many other LED manufacturers, but they are usually either not used in flashlights, not specified by manufacturers (i.e. "no-name" brand flashlights with "generic" LEDs), or only specialize in lower power emitters.

Now, onto the LEDs themselves. LEDs are ordered by date introduced unless otherwise noted

Important stuff below. 
*For a quick look at some LEDs, technical wise -- take a look at this ---> link <--- quit staring at the shiny pictures of the emitters and get to the good technical stuff!  and another useful thread to Bin Codes And Tints, here!*
*It includes Thermal resistance, Chip size, max rated current, max rated output, efficacy, Viewing angle, Forward, Voltage, notes, and a link to the spec sheet.*

Some quick terms:

Emitter/Package: The entire LED itself, which does not include the star or board it may be mounted to.
Die: The Chip inside the LED -- the light producing portion.
Bond Wires: Wires (usually gold) that connect the die to the "-" and "+" contacts.
Phosphor: (usually talking about white LEDs) A coating on top of the die which converts light emitted by the Die to a different color.

Cree Inc-

Cree X-Lamp (entire category of LEDs -- not all have been used in flashlights and will be omitted.

XR-E 7090





EZ1000 on the left, newer EZ900 on the right.
Neutral/Warm Tints Available, Common Neutral tints are found in the Q3/Q4 flux bin

The Cree XR-E was the LED that pretty much started it all-- it had twice the efficacy of other comparable emitters out on the market at the time, and it also led to the release of the Seoul P4 -- a lower cost emitter utilizing the same die, the EZ1000.
The XR-E LED package consists of the chip on a ceramic package, 4 bond wires in total(note: some of the older and lower binned XR-Es had 3 bond wires), and optical grade silicone keeping the glass dome in place. There is a metal ring around the glass dome, but, the dome is still rather easily knocked off. In addition, the metal ring often caused the infamous "Cree Ring", a darker ring around the hotspot.

XR-C




Nothing much to say here, The XR-C is identical in size to the XR-E, and was developed as a cheaper alternative to the XR-E. The chip inside the package, though, is smaller, and there are only 2 bond wires in total. This results in a higher forward voltage, which equates to less efficacy. Only a few "brick and mortar" lights use this emitter.

MC-E



image courtesy of gopajti!
Neutral/Warm Tints Available.
The Cree MC-E LED is a quad die LED, consisting of 4 EZ1000 LEDs mounted inside one package. It was released as a competitor to the Seoul P7. Whereas the P7 is wired up in parallel, the Cree MC-E's dies are is individually configurable, though most flashlight manufacturers will wire it up in parallel anyways. The MC-E's package is roughly the same size as a XR-E, and the dome is the same size. In flashlights, the MC-E offers a very high output solution, though the spacing of the 4 dies often leads to a "donut hole" a drop in output in the center of the beam. Throw based lights will have this effect exaggerated.

MC-E RGBW



image courtesy of gopajti!
The Cree MC-E RGBW is identical to the standard MC-E in package, but the dies have been replaced with differently colored ones. The only flashlight uses this emitter at the moment is the Quark RGB.

XP-E



image courtesy of gopajti!
Neutral/Warm Tints Available, Common Neutral tints are found in the Q3/Q4 flux bin
The Cree XP-E was released after the MC-E as a competitor to the Luxeon Rebel, and to offer roughly the same efficacy of the Cree XR-E in a much smaller package. It also does not have a Ring, thus removing the problem of the "Cree Ring" (a darker ring around the hotspot).
The XP-E has a larger viewing angle than the Cree XR-E, thus cannot effectively replace the XR-E in thrower applications.

XP-C



image courtesy of gopajti!
The Cree XP-C was created for pretty much the same reason as the XR-C, lower cost, with the sacrifice of efficacy.

XP-G



image courtesy of gopajti!
Neutral Tint Available.
The Cree XP-G is a highly efficient single die emitter in a very small package -- it's physically the same size as the Cree XP-E, but has a much larger die size.. 1.4mm^2 as opposed to .98mm^2. As a result, it is harder to focus the light coming from this LED, the viewing angle is 125° compared to the 110 of an XP-E, and 90 of an XR-E.

XM-L




(image by cmaccel)








The Cree XM-L is single die emitter, but it is even larger than the XP-G's die! featuring a 2mmx2mm squared die, this emitter is even more efficient than the SST-50, even though luminus' dies are 2.5x2.55mm!

*Cree has since updated their emitters with gen2 - XP-E2, XP-G2, XM-L2.
They also have bigger die emitters, similar to Luminous ones.
The MT-G2 emitter is one that is showing up in a few flashlights.

I have not had time to update this index for a while, but there should be an overhaul next month.
-Craig*

Edison Opto Corporation-

edison creates many "budget" emitters, they often look very similar to current offerings from philips lumileds, but with different performance. 

LedEngin, Inc.-

Ledengin makes larger LEDs, and were the first to make a high power rgb led I believe.


Nichia Corporation- lot's of 5mms!
NSPW500GS-K1 - one elongated die in a single T1-3/4 (5mm) package. Most 5mms will look identical, thus, a picture will not be provided.
The Nichia "GS" LED is one of the most commonly used 5mms in higher quality flashlights. Some recent examples include Fenix and Arc flashlights.

OSRAM Opto Semiconductors-

Golden Dragon (domed)



image by osram




image by timmyns.
note the 2nd die in the corner.. a red diode that lights up when voltage is reversed. ra twisties use this feature for a low red.

Golden Dragon Plus





These emitters are slightly lower performing than Cree's XR-E (and subsequently their better offerings), but they have supposedly better tint and beam profiles. 

Diamond Dragon




the high current version of the GDP. I don't know much about these emitters are they are not used in flashlights often.


Ostar




These high performance emitters can now be considered outdated.. I believe the Ostar came out before the Seoul P7 and Cree MC-E. These emitters run extremely hot and have a very high forward voltage.. not easily implemented in flashlights.

Ostar SMT




Newer Version of the 6 Die ostar. I don't have enough experience with these to write a good summary.

Philips LumiLEDs-

The original high power LEDs that started it all! The Lux I/III/V can all be summarized as being rugged, and bright (for their time).. except for the tint lottery.. purples and blues... much worse than what we have today.

Luxeon I (side emitting and lambertian available)





Luxeon III





Luxeon V





Luxeon K2, 1x1 mm^2 chip





Thin Film Flip Chip (TFFC*), 5.5 °C/W, 1x1 mm^2 chip






Color K2, image courtesy of gopajti!

Luxeon Rebel**





Thin Film Flip Chip (TFFC*), 






Color Rebels, image courtesy of gopajti!

** Philips had a bad batch of TTFC chips affecting up to 5% of purchasers in January 22, 2008. The epoxy underfill was contaminated, which would cause the die to crack. Production resumed in March 2008. [source]
*** The Luxeon Rebel TFFC was released before the K2 TFFC

Seoul Semiconductor Co., Ltd-

P4



image courtesy of gopajti!

Narrower angles available.
Neutral and High CRI tint bins Available

P7





Luminus Devices-

SST-50




image provided by download :thumbsup:



image courtesy of gopajti!

SST-90



image courtesy of gopajti!

SST-90 Color 



image courtesy of gopajti!

I want to thank saablusterfor his help with some details, and illumfor his help with his emitter pictures.

I regret that I am not able to credit everyone about their emitter pics, but it was difficult to find the original owners. If any don't want their picture posted, please, don't hesitate to say so.


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## COAST

You made it!


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## csshih

yup! I hope this helps people.


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## SuperTrouper

Cool macro shots there! Great having all these in one place for reference!


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## kodama

Awesome thread! There should be an LED 101 sticky for noobs like me :wave: A lot easier than sifting through years of threads like I have been doing for months :ironic:


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## saabluster

I have some XP-C if you want shots of those.


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## kicken_bright

awesome job! This will save me alota time searching through ancient threads!:thumbsup:


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## kingofwylietx

Great info for us new guys. I vote for a sticky.


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## don.gwapo

Thanks for those photos. All I need to do is get a magnifying glass and check my light for what emitter they have.


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## csshih

saabluster said:


> I have some XP-C if you want shots of those.



yes please! lovecpf

most of the photos are not mine, feel free to ask for credit if I used one of yours.


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## rayman

Great thread :thumbsup:. Still learned something. Didn't know what XR-C were. I knew that they look like XR-E but I didn't know that they are identical with just a smaller die.

rayman


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## csshih

and only 2 bond wires, too! (creating higher Vf, I believe)

a few B&M lights use those.


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## download

:goodjob: :thanks:


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## kramer5150

.. and to further complicate things there are 2 different dies for the XR-E. The larger EZ-1000 pictured above and the smaller EZ-900. The Flux BINs are the same for each however.

Let me know if you want a pic of the XP-C... although its nothing to get excited over. If anything, its an emitter you should probably avoid. its die surface is really small, but unfortunately surface brightness is very low so the net result is low Lumens and low lux.


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## Popsiclestix

Something seems a bit wonky with the die dimensions of the SST90. It states it as having 9 times the dimension each way compared to the XR-E. This would make 81 times the surface area?

The SST90's datasheet states that the emitting surface area is only 3000 um x 3000 um.

Same with the SST50, the die dimensions should be 2250x2250 um.


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## Frank88

This thread (while still in construction) should be sticky and improved, it's a real good idea to have all thoses emitter pictures.

:goodjob: :bump:


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## Gunner12

This is a great idea! A lot of work though.

Maybe you can also add a link to the the Bin code thread.


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## csshih

Popsiclestix said:


> Something seems a bit wonky with the die dimensions of the SST90. It states it as having 9 times the dimension each way compared to the XR-E. This would make 81 times the surface area?
> 
> The SST90's datasheet states that the emitting surface area is only 3000 um x 3000 um.
> 
> Same with the SST50, the die dimensions should be 2250x2250 um.



oops.. it was in my head that a SST90 was a 9mm die  so I wrote 9mx9mm.. .. correcting now!


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## cm_mtb

Wow, nice work! This should definitely be a sticky; it's very useful.


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## StarHalo

How about noting which emitters are available in and/or are more commonly used for a warm emitter, like Cree's Q3 bin of the XR-E?


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## csshih

updated with suggestions, corrections, 

kramer -- I had the ez900/1000 note in the other link, but forgot to provide an image .. oops!

yeah, I want a picture of the XP-C so people that do have them know about them


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## saabluster

csshih said:


> updated with suggestions, corrections,
> 
> kramer -- I had the ez900/1000 note in the other link, but forgot to provide an image .. oops!
> 
> yeah, I want a picture of the XP-C so people that do have them know about them












Also I noticed you had the lumen output of the R2 bin XR-E listed around 250 @1A when it should be about 275. :thumbsup:


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## kramer5150

thanks sasbluster... I couldn't get s clear pic of it.

thanks for doing this Craig:twothumbs


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## csshih

saabluster said:


> Also I noticed you had the lumen output of the R2 bin XR-E listed around 250 @1A when it should be about 275. :thumbsup:



thank you for the pic!
woah... 1 bond wire. oo:

using Cree's product characterization tool, it says 250.8 lumens @ 1A?


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## dandism

The MC-E looks so cool


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## headophile

very convenient source of info and pics :thanks:


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## saabluster

csshih said:


> thank you for the pic!
> woah... 1 bond wire. oo:
> 
> using Cree's product characterization tool, it says 250.8 lumens @ 1A?


Your welcome. I don't know why that tool is not working right. I tried it myself and I got the same thing. It seems buggy though. At one point it said it was on XR-E but the figures I saw had to be from the MC-E. Either way we have the tests from jtr1962 which both agree that it can do 270-275.:shrug:


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## csshih

ah, I see! I'll get the specs changed tomorrow


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## gopajti

Cree XLamp XR-E (R2 WG)






Cree XLamp XP-C, XP-E, XP-G






Cree XLamp XP-C Color, MP-L EasyWhite









Cree XLamp MC-E & MC-E RGBW









Luminus PhlatLight LED SST-50, SST-90 & SST-90 Color series






Seoul Semiconductor Z-Power LED P4, P5-II, P7 + P4-P7
















Osram Oslon SSL






Lumileds LUXEON Rebel & K2 (TFFC)














Nichia NFS, NCS, NS6


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## DM51

Very useful thread by csshih, with some excellent pics added by gopajti in the post just above this one.

I'll leave the thread here in the LED Flashlights section for a while, conscious that some members don't visit the LED (emitters) section too often. (why not, guys? )

I'm adding it to the "Threads of Interest" stickies both here and in LED.


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## saabluster

gopajti those are some incredible shots. You must do that for a living or something. Thanks!


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## csshih

*wow*!, gopajti. those are most excellent pictures!
and I was going to try to take some pictures to replace the "lesser" ones.. wow! Thank You! lovecpf  :twothumbs


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## kramer5150

Wow great pics!!... I've had an MCE light for over 1.5 years and had no idea there was that "much" going on in there.

IMHO it would be nice to leave it sticky'd here in LED flashlight forum.


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## csshih

DM51 said:


> Very useful thread by csshih, with some excellent pics added by gopajti in the post just above this one.
> 
> I'll leave the thread here in the LED Flashlights section for a while, conscious that some members don't visit the LED (emitters) section too often. (why not, guys? )
> 
> I'm adding it to the "Threads of Interest" stickies both here and in LED.



Thanks, David!
I would like the thread to stay in the LED flashlights section, if possible, as I think the "drive-by" users just browsing through tend to stay away or not see the other sections. :thinking:

although.. the LED section is, indeed, a fun place to look around.


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## RAGE CAGE

One of the best informational threads here on CPF- Thanks.:wave:


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## nfetterly

Fantastic! Enjoyable read - I was looking for some information like this about a week ago.


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## erehwyrevekool

Thanks to *csshih* and *gopajti* for the pics, great job really useful! :thumbsup:


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## JulianP

Great guide, csshih. I have a question: Is there a way to distinguish between XR-E's? I have an XR-E R2 flashlight which is dimmer than all the others, and I wonder whether the supplier sent me an XR-E P4. They all look like the XR-E that you posted. 

Thanks.

BTW - I can't find datasheets for the R2. The Cree website has specs for all types (bins?) up to Q5, but no R2.


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## csshih

Hi Julian,

no, there is not  the older generation P4s had only 2 bond wires if I recall correctly, but all the new ones look identical.


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## JulianP

Thanks, maybe I've just got a dim R2.


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## Jack Reacher

WOW! This is a great source of info for someone just getting into LED flashlights. And a pic does indeed convey a thousand words.

Also, I really appreciate the major efforts people-in-the-know take to enlighten folks like me!

— Cheers, Jack.


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## Budman231

Awesome thread and pics. LED Porn. Love it nice job.!


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## Ian2381

Can anyone tell me where to buy a 14mm base XRE neutral LED?

Thanks


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## csshih

you'd be better off posting that in the LED section, instead of here.


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## AardvarkSagus

Wow, some instruction even for me. I thought the LuxV was a quad die LED similar to the MC-E and P7. Instruction around every corner.


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## Speedball

So that's what it is all about, thank you.


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## HarryN

AardvarkSagus said:


> Wow, some instruction even for me. I thought the LuxV was a quad die LED similar to the MC-E and P7. Instruction around every corner.



Hi, The Lux V is / was the first quad die package that I am aware of. It was also the first package to break the 200 lumen (rated) barrier. It is still the only package that contained 4 die that were carefully matched for Vf and output to each other. The market price was aroud $ 50 / each for those at one time. Compare that to a 200 lumen Rebel single die pacakge from the same company for a few dollars today. That is why I laugh when people complain about blowing LEDs now. 

The Lux 1 is really the pacakge that started off the wide spread use of LEDs in flashlights, followed by the Lux III, which I consider sort of an enhancement of the Lux I.

Virtually all of the Philips Lumileds power LED products use 1x1mm2 die, just different generations and sorting of them.

Cree introduced their power led products a few years later, taking about 2 years to become competitive in efficiency and output. I have some of those early ones and and the difference between those and the Lux I was pretty visually obvious, even to the casual observer. 

It has been interesting to watch the power led guys drive the technology and market forward.


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## AardvarkSagus

That's what I thought. Just in the initial post this is the image of the LuxV and I wasn't seeing quad die:


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## Chrontius

You can see a liiiitle cross but they put the phosphor over top of the dice, so you can't really tell them apart unless you look close.


Also, don't forget the Nichia 083 and 183 - the current favorite for high-CRI things like the Sundrop around here.


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## boboweb

I have simple question ! Is there XR-E R2 LED ? If we trust in official CREE data sheet such LED doesn`t exist ?!

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLamp7090XR-E.pdf


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## Tally-ho

If we trust in official CREE data sheet such LED *didnt`t exist last time they updated this data sheet* ?!

Have a look at the bottom of page 2: _Cree, Inc.
Copyright © *2006-2009* Cree, Inc. All rights reserved. The information in this document is subject to change without notice. Cree,_

The last time it was updated is _mar 15 déc 2009 09:53:48 CET_ ("control" + "i" in ubuntu (french version)) that is Thuesday, December 15th 2009


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## wintermute76

Great post! Have to add that to my bookmarks.


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## nanotech17

wintermute76 said:


> Great post! Have to add that to my bookmarks.



sorry out of topic a lill
Hi,are you the same wintermute that have been lost & found


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## Minjin

Just saw this thread (linked in another one). Excellent resource. I can understand not having the old emitter info on there but it would still be neat to see and directly compare to what we have today.

Any chance we can get the Bridgelux LEDs on there?


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## csshih

not sure about that ! they don't seem to be commonly used in flashlights! :thinking:


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## User3451

Brilliant Thread :twothumbs


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## The Berr

Really interesting thread. Now I need to know if anyone has worked with the Nichia NCCU033 which is a 3W 365nm UV led. If so, could you please contact me.


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## Kestrel

The Berr said:


> Really interesting thread. Now I need to know if anyone has worked with the Nichia NCCU033 which is a 3W 365nm UV led. If so, could you please contact me.


Hmm, I don't know if that would be considered a 'commonly used' LED though?  You might want to check out the *LED* _emitter_ subforum, which I believe might be a better venue for the information you are looking for.


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## The Berr

Thanks for that I will.


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## raven2751

if anyone could help me identify this led, as i have not had much luck






i kind of looks like a blob of clear glue has been badly dropped over the emitter.

reason i ask is i'm intending to replace it with a better led. (it is a very cheap MTB light)

thanks in advance


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## csshih

raven2751 said:


> if anyone could help me identify this led, as i have not had much luck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i kind of looks like a blob of clear glue has been badly dropped over the emitter.
> 
> reason i ask is i'm intending to replace it with a better led. (it is a very cheap MTB light)
> 
> thanks in advance


 
dang... that LED is very very familiar.. the name escapes me at the moment... time to search up some of my old posts...
I can't find which exact LED it is but it's a multidie one.. a very low end one that does not come close to any cree power LED.
I got one couple years again in DX SKU 2124... not a good light at all.

Craig


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## raven2751

thanks csshih i am kind of wondering if i could put this led http://www.dotlight.de/products/en/...E/Cree-XR-E-Q5-Emitter-white-on-Star-PCB.html into the torch without making any other changes


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## csshih

raven2751 said:


> thanks csshih i am kind of wondering if i could put this led http://www.dotlight.de/products/en/...E/Cree-XR-E-Q5-Emitter-white-on-Star-PCB.html into the torch without making any other changes


 
driver wise, it should work. I'm not too sure about the forward voltage of the old LED, but they should be similar.

But you're going to have trouble with fitment - the XR-E is rather large compared to the old emitter.

-Craig


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## Imon

Nice update csshih, I was wondering when the XM-L would be added to the database.


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## csshih

Imon said:


> Nice update csshih, I was wondering when the XM-L would be added to the database.


 
thanks, that was actually a re-update, as all updates since november were lost.

-Craig


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## raven2751

thanks for the advise, decided to go for the XP-G, as when comparing them the XP-G looks to be a better fit.


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## raemon

Great work indeed. Very, very helpful. I have absolutely no idea there were so many different types of LEDs for flashlights.


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## yliu

Thanks! great work


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## lyklyk616

Can any of you guys please tell me what L.E.D does my SureFire LX2 Lumamax !
Thank you very much !
I really wish I have the fund and time just like you guys !


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## lyklyk616

The upcoming SureFire UDR Dominator has the most powerful L.E.D. ever !
A single-die 2000 lumens L.E.D. ! 

I wonder what L.E.D.is that ?


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## csshih

lyklyk616 said:


> Can any of you guys please tell me what L.E.D does my SureFire LX2 Lumamax !
> Thank you very much !
> I really wish I have the fund and time just like you guys !


 
Cree XR-E, If I recall correctly.

I am pretty sure the UDR uses a sst90 due second hand descriptions
If I were at SHOT show I would have been able to tell you immediately.

Craig


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## Aaron123

wow~~it is great,i know some,but.....
learn a lot


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## Vicepres

csshih said:


> yup! I hope this helps people.



*PHENOMENAL JOB*, *csshih*, 

Noob, trying to understand the working side of these incredible lights. 

In researching various lights on this forum, a knowledgeable Member, (who is trying to help) often offers " thats a XR-E or XP-E or another emitter type" that is OLDER technology and the later model is a XP-G (or xxx), try an obtain that Model for your application. 

In searching for the evolution and manufacturers date of these emitters, this leads me to several pages of good information, but I cannot find the exact date/year these were introduced. I realize I'm trying to simplify and there are other factors.
Did I miss something? Do you look for characteristics of the emitter rather than the Model year of manufacturer? 

When were these made or replaced by the "Latest Technology"
*
Cree:**
XR-E (R2)
XR-C (P4)
MC-E (M)
XP-E (R2)
XP-C (Q4)
XP-G (R5)
XM-L (T6)

**Phillips
Luxeon l
Luxeon lll
Luxeon V
Luxeon K2 (V)
Luxeon Rebel

Seoul Semiconductor
P4
P7
Luminus
SST-50
SST-90
Ostram Opto
Ostar 96 Die)*

Thank You


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## csshih

Before I go and research dates - this is the order I believe they are in.

Luxeon I
Luxeon III
Luxeon V
P4
Luxeon K2 (or was it after the XR-E?)
XR-E
P7
MC-E
XR-C
MC-E
Luxeon Rebel
XP-E
XP-C
XP-G
SST-50
SST-90
XM-L

time to research.
Craig


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## cloverhsu7

thx 4 sharing


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## miphz

useful thread, i love it ...

bookmarked for future needs


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## Hwy115

XM-L or SST which is the better LED?
Thanks,
Steve


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## csshih

sorry, haven't had to do the research. too many essays lately! :sick2:

it's usually hard to say which LED is better, but I can say, the XM-L is more efficient, but the SST50 is more robust.

Craig


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## yliu

Hwy115 said:


> XM-L or SST which is the better LED?
> Thanks,
> Steve


 
From what I know, the XM L is better if you are gonna drive it below 3 Amps. Both SST 50 and 90 can be driven harder than the XML.


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## angela218

amazing, soooo many i wanted, vote for a sticky.


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## bshanahan14rulz

beautiful shots, great compilation. Thanks to all contributors!


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## FX-32

Great job!
This is very useful, Thanks!


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## Epsilon

I made a picture some time ago, to compare ledsizes. Maybe a useful addition to the OP?


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## AFAustin

Great thread! Thanks so much, csshih.

I am trying to determine if the emitter in a Peak Eiger is a Rebel (older Eigers) or an XP-G (newer ones). If there is a bit of green visible on the board, does that mean it has to be an XP-G?

Thanks for any help,

Andrew


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## csshih

Hi Andrew,

In your case, I think so - though, the rebels have distinctive indentations on the dies (assuming they're the newer TFFC chips) which should help distinguish the emitters from the XP-Gs. 

Craig


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## AFAustin

Craig, thanks for your reply and info. The Peak Eiger in question has an optic that makes viewing the details of the emitter itself difficult. But, I can make out a bit of green on the periphery, so I guess it's more likely XP-G than Rebel.

Thanks again and regards,

Andrew


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## csshih

Hi Andrew,

I find if I look at optics straight on I can usually see the current spreaders of Cree LEDs. I then count them to find out which LED!

Craig


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## AFAustin

Craig,

Thanks. Forgive my ignorance (non-technical guy here), but the "current spreaders" are the parallel wires across the face of the emitter?

But, sadly, with the Eiger, no can do. It also has a lens that is, well, very stippled, so the emitter just appears as a round yellow golf ball! The wires are not visible, even with my 15x lighted loupe.

Andrew


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## csshih

Hey Andrew,

yep, those are the current spreaders. I guess that`s all we can get without taking it apart. 

Craig


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## todderic

Thanks a lot for sharing. Hope it will work.


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## AFAustin

Craig, 

You have been a great help. Thank you.

So, do you think the bit of green around the emitter definitely means it's an XP-G, or is there still some question? Put another way, has there ever been a Rebel with green on the board?

Thanks,

Andrew


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## csshih

Hi Andrew,

Did a bit of research - from a 2009 post of a Rebel 100 Peak it appears there is no green visible in the optic see: http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20AAA%20UK.html (I believe the green reflection is from something behind the camera as it's visible in the 3rd picture. 

So, I'd say XP-G. enjoy the light regardless!

Craig


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## AFAustin

Craig, thanks for going to all that trouble. Yep, that great Eiger Rebel front-on shot is completely "green-less".

Sounds like the jury's verdict is "XP-G".

Thanks again,

Andrew


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## 87james

very useful information for reference in learning LEDs, grateful for that. I've got a question here that when making the light for Diving, is there any special request for the emitter？Since diving is different from the common situation, the shape design and materials for light calls for high quality and good water resistance, but for the LED emitter, any special request? Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thanks.


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## csshih

87james said:


> very useful information for reference in learning LEDs, grateful for that. I've got a question here that when making the light for Diving, is there any special request for the emitter？Since diving is different from the common situation, the shape design and materials for light calls for high quality and good water resistance, but for the LED emitter, any special request? Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thanks.



tint might come into question for underwater use, but I'm not sure what you'd need!

C


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## bigterk

*Re: Commonly Used LED Emitter Index ,sst90 reflectors*

Does anyone have info on tight spot reflectors that can be used with SST-90 emitters ? One of my first projects is going to be based on that emitter. I need some examples of reflectors so I can machine a housing to hold the LED, reflector, window, and incorporate a heat sink. I plan to machine the housing/ heat sink from a chunk of copper. I am hoping to have a part that is functional, ( Thermodynamically sound ) and attractive.


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## yliu

*Re: Commonly Used LED Emitter Index ,sst90 reflectors*

I found that the Luxeon Rebel in Maglites have better tint than Cree chips...

Some of my Cree chips (XRE, XPG and XML) are greenish, and some are blueish its hard to find one with good tint, but both the XL50 and the AA have a near perfect pure white tint.


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## DP Hunter

nanotech17 said:


> sorry out of topic a lill
> Hi,are you the same wintermute that have been lost & found



Hey Nanotech - nice flashlight - it must be the one all my taiwanese buddies decided to knock off and sell me - I have several different versions of it.


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## nissanmaster1996

Thanks so much for putting all this info into one spot! very well done.


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## Dplight21

This thread is a nice thread. Great posts are shared in it. I think it will more helpfull to people.


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## pointedspider

Hi! new to CF... I want all of these LEDs!


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## okenobi

Loads of great info in this thread, but I'm trying to find something simpler if possible. Do we have a list anywhere up to and including the the XP-G2 with just a brief explanation of the characteristics/performance of each LED and perhaps a way to compare them? 

I've read all of this and I still feel unable to know what LED is in my current light and how it would compare to the currently available options. Am I missing something obvious...?


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## brted

There is a little more info at Flashlight Wiki, but not everything like viewing angle, Vf, etc.:

http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree

http://flashlightwiki.com/Brightness_Bins


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## okenobi

brted said:


> There is a little more info at Flashlight Wiki, but not everything like viewing angle, Vf, etc.:
> 
> http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree
> 
> http://flashlightwiki.com/Brightness_Bins



Perfect and easy. Thanks!


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## gopajti

XM-L2
http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/products/xlamp/discrete-directional/xlamp-xml2


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## KSDeputy

That was very helpful, as I am trying to get a flashlight with the most recent generation of led. I saw an ad recently for a gen 2 led. What is the most recent generation of led to look for? Thank you.


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## SkOrPn

KSDeputy said:


> That was very helpful, as I am trying to get a flashlight with the most recent generation of led. I saw an ad recently for a gen 2 led. What is the most recent generation of led to look for? Thank you.


Of course I am no expert, but going through the cree site it looks like the XM-L2 is their latest and highest performing single die LED. Not sure if I am reading it right, but it appears to be 1198 lumen at just 3A. I could be wrong though.


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## jcw122

This looks like it needs updating pretty badly lol


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## subwoofer

jcw122 said:


> This looks like it needs updating pretty badly lol



Who is up for that challenge? jcw122, were you volunteering? (I don't have the time due to other commitments, but always found this an interesting thread)


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## jcw122

subwoofer said:


> Who is up for that challenge? jcw122, were you volunteering? (I don't have the time due to other commitments, but always found this an interesting thread)



No I'm looking to start another list-reference type thread soon for warm lights, so I'm hoping to be focusing on that.


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## JulianP

Hopefully the OP is still getting email updates. 

Dear OP, please update this thread for us helpless mortals.


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## WWWW

Thanks and congrats for the post! It was very informative!


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## dorothyjones

wow. been searching for LED Emitters in the web and nothing compares to the info here. Thanks a lot.


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## Got Lumens?

This is a great resource.
Thanks Craig and to all those that have provided updated info and photos .

I have a question. Is this one of those non-listed no-name LED's you have spoke of?
It has four bonding wires, but the phosphrus is so thick and the die sits so deep, I can't tell. I was able to get an approximate die measurement using the optical software used to take the photos, and it appears to be about ~1mm square. It is a low powered LED, purchased installed in a flashlight only 3 years ago :thinking:

Thanks
GL



 . 





 . 


Click to Enlarge


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## Capolini

Nice job Craig!!

Remember me?[How could you forget!!!] I talked to you on the phone about 70,000 times! I ordered the Black Shadow terminator, NO-OX-ID and a few NitecoreI4 from you. I live near Valley Forge, Pa.

That is my Husky[the pic.] when he was 10 weeks,the day I got him1

Finally, Today,,,,,,I get the "New" TK-75! 

I need help :help: !!! I have been out of work since 7.17.2013 and have bought Two lights since then, one from you [BST] and the TK-75 that I got today!

ciao,,,,,,Roberto,,,,"Capo di Capo"


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## snakebite

looks a lot like the generic china clone emitters or maybe edison opto edixeon?


Got Lumens? said:


> This is a great resource.
> Thanks Craig and to all those that have provided updated info and photos .
> 
> I have a question. Is this one of those non-listed no-name LED's you have spoke of?
> It has four bonding wires, but the phosphrus is so thick and the die sits so deep, I can't tell. I was able to get an approximate die measurement using the optical software used to take the photos, and it appears to be about ~1mm square. It is a low powered LED, purchased installed in a flashlight only 3 years ago :thinking:
> 
> Thanks
> GL
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Click to Enlarge


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## subwoofer

jackie sanli said:


> Real good article
> But can u please tell us about what are led grow lights.



It is usually better not to quote a really long post, it makes reading the thread pretty frustrating. Can you cut it down to just the bit you are querying please.


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## mward94

great info!


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## Albinoni1967

Wow didn't know that Nichia were that old


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## magellan

Great information and photos. Thanks!


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## BuDn3kkID

The apparently quick-and-dirty and forgettable portion of the OP post allocated to Nichia is quite appalling!
I may sound disrespectful by saying this, and I understand that Craig may not yet have time to update this thread with more info… but I think this just doesn't do Nichia's LED justice, especially with the awesome Neutral White-producing 219 series LEDs!
I got into CPF and into flashlight collection solely on the HighCRI merits of Nichia's 219 LEDs, on top of the hosts and flashlight designs! Nichia deserves more recognition than that little short paragraph for it, compared to all the CREEs above it.

Cheers!
Edmund


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## BrianHook

Flashlights are very benevolent during night. One should carry a good flashlight with him/her. Information shared by you about flashlight is really benevolent and meritorious.


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## colight

Thanks for sharing,learn a lot from your post


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## Xak

What is the advantage of the new XM-L2 U3 bin over the U2? I want to upgrade a couple XM-L2 torches with warm tints. Should I wait till they start coming out, or just go for the upgrade now with current XM-L2?

Sent from my A1-830 using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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## WalkIntoTheLight

Xak said:


> What is the advantage of the new XM-L2 U3 bin over the U2? I want to upgrade a couple XM-L2 torches with warm tints. Should I wait till they start coming out, or just go for the upgrade now with current XM-L2?



Each increase in bin usually gives you an average of about 7% increase in brightness. You may be waiting awhile for a warm tinted U3 bin. Warm tints are normally less bright, and are found in lower bins until the manufacturing process catches up.


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## Xak

Right, I prefer a warm tint for better depth perception and color rendition to a washed out but ever so slightly brighter beam. My other light with a warm XM-L2 is plenty bright, its nice beam that is easy on the eyes is what I like about it the best.

I may just get the current bin, the green hotspot and purple spill of the cool XM-L2s on the dimmer settings are killing me. The warm tints also tend to be perfect from hotspot to spill and at any brightness.

Sent from my A1-830 using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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## lumen aeternum

It would be really useful to have a separate similar thread for high CRI emitters. Difficult to search for info on lights since often the same model has a choice of emitters. And people spell high=hi, add "-" between words, etc so searches are imprecise.


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## bhvm

This is the most useful thread on CPF, however i am afraid to report that Many image links have broken.
A saloon chair has replaced LED pic on First page! Something sure is amiss!.

Anyways I feel that an existing thread should be resurrected/ Repaired rather than making more new threads.


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## Andybig

After reading through this thread iv still got questions as a newbie.
My main question is whats a good all round LED?
Will an XM-L 2 be a good all rounder? 
Is there something far better than the XM-L2 ? 

I will be using a reasonable quality aspherical lens.


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## Camo5

Depends on how much battery you plan to power the light with. using 1 cell lithium, a cree XML HI v6 is now one of the best available. I don't know much about voltages or the control circuits that can mess with them, potentially allowing you to put an MT-G2 on a 1 cell AA or something.


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## FRITZHID

I'm a big fan of the xm-l2 LEDs.
As an all around LED, they've worked well in my projects, both domed and dedomed. Warm and neutral whites in the higher CRI versions. 
Just my 2¢.


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## tthrift

Thx for the led summary. I look forward to the upcoming update.


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## ateupwithgolf

Is there a thread that lists the flashlight model by which LED it uses? 

It would be nice to see every light that is made that uses say the XHP 35 HI LED, etc.


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## vadimax

Interesting that high CRI has nothing in common with LED emission temp. index:

http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/XLamp/Discrete-Directional/XLamp-XHP35-HI (see Variations).


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## andrrrew

that is for sure going to help me! Good job!!
i ve been looking for a such full and diverse information for ages !!!
thank you!:twothumbs


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## MatSec

I would like to be know how to differentiate all the various LED, but the pictures on the first post by _csshih_ does not seem to work and the link to the Emitter Index ( http://www.lumensreview.com/emitter_index/emitter index.htm ) gives an error message. 

Is there some other list I could refer to? The best I was able to find at the moment is the FlashLight wiki, namely for Cree LED ( http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree ), but the pictures are not very clear/sharp. 

Thanks.


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## LEDrock

Most images on this thread are now gone.


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## razzledazzle

Data for common CREE emitters


*emitter*
*Size*
*Max Current*
*Max Power*
*Max Light Output**Maximum Efficacy*
*Viewing Angle*
*Thermal Resistance*
*Link*XM-L
5 mm discrete
3.0 A
10 W
1040 lm158 lm/W
125 °
2.5 °C/W
linkXM-L2
5 mm discrete
3.0 A
10 W
1052 lm170 lm/W
125 °
2.5 °C/W
linkXP-G3
3.45 mm discrete
2.0 A
6 W
777 lm190 lm/W
125 °
5°C/W
linkXP-L
3.45 mm discrete
3.0 A
10 W
1150 lm161 lm/W
125 °
2.2°C/W
linkXP-L HI
3.45 mm discrete
3.0 A
10 W
1095 lm136 lm/W
115 °
2.2°C/W
linkXP-L2
3.45 mm discrete
3.0 A
10 W
1175 lm169 lm/W
125 °
2.2°C/W
linkXHP35
3.45 mm discrete
1.05 A
13 W
1712 lm161 lm/W
125 °
1.8°C/W
linkXHP35 HI
3.45 mm discrete
1.05 A
13 W
1483 lm139 lm/W
115 °
1.8°C/W
linkXHP35.2
3.45 mm discrete
1.05 A
13 W
1718 lm162 lm/W
135°
1.8°C/W
linkXHP50
5 mm array
3 A (6 V); 
1.5 A (12 V)
19 W
2546 lm149 lm/W
120 °
1.2 °C/W
linkXHP50.2
5 mm array
3 A (6 V); 
1.5 A (12 V)
18 W
2654 lm165 lm/W
120 °
1.2 °C/W
linkXHP70
7 mm array
4.8 A (6 V); 
2.4 A (12 V)
32 W
4022 lm150 lm/W
120 °
0.9 °C/W
linkXHP70.2 
7 mm array
4.8 A (6 V); 
2.4 A (12 V)
29 W
4292 lm181 lm/W
125 °
0.9 °C/W
link


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## creative_bureau

Just curious if I use 2 leds side by side with +- 2 CRI measurement tolerance it probably would be pretty impossible to see the difference with a naked eye right ?


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## staticx57

Assuming color temp and tint are near identical too then yes. You would not likely see much of any difference


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## Kerisun

I made a picture some time ago, to compare ledsizes. Maybe a useful addition to the OP?


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## GaiaIngram

good job, thx for information


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## saradanyal94

[FONT=&quot]Which emitter is the most efficient, say if you wanted to build one for ultralight backpacking to last the longest time possible on a single AA/14500 battery?[/FONT]


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## snakebite

LEDs & Other Stuff - (Reference Guide) | BudgetLightForum.com







budgetlightforum.com




might fill some gaps.


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## CuriousOne

Hello, long time no post here. Can anyone help IDing this "cree" LED ?


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## thermal guy

Anyone know what led is in my U2 digital ultra? Has a wire coming in from opposing sides and a football grid in the die. A lux V?


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## Salute Rocket

I’d love to see this updated by someone more knowledgeable than me…there’s lots of great high CRI options now.


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