# Protected 10440 (AAA size) Li-ion cells! Finally!!!



## Vamp (Nov 11, 2009)

Trustfire seems to be the first to put out a new protected 10440, with a reported 600 mAh capacity! 







DX has just put it on sale there at a decent price.

Despite the capacity is a clear exaggeration, as they can only be some 350-450 mAh maximum, these are good news for all those LD01, LF2XT,... aficionados ! :twothumbs

They weren't to small for the PCB after all!  ...they seem to only have grown about 2mm in lenght, maintaining the same width.

The worries of over discharging these beauties seems to be over!


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## Zeruel (Nov 11, 2009)

*Re: Finaly protected 10440 (AAA size) Li-ion cells !!*

My only worry is if it's too long to fit into some lights.


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## Phaserburn (Nov 11, 2009)

I'd like to see these tested with regards to capacity under load, and the performance of the protection circuit with regards to low voltage and charging voltage shutoff.


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## matrixshaman (Nov 11, 2009)

Yea! I just saw that too - glad I did a search here before posting. With all the AAA lights coming out that can take a Li-Ion it's good timing for someone to start making them. I wonder if AW will make some also.


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## Patriot (Nov 11, 2009)

*Re: Finaly protected 10440 (AAA size) Li-ion cells !!*



Zeruel said:


> My only worry is if it's too long to fit into some lights.




Same concern here. A guy over in the Maratac thread just asked if these batteries would fit it and asked if the extra "1mm" in length will still work. Now I find this thread and find out that it's actually 2mm instead. I suspect some lights will have trouble fitting this cell. These reminds me of the Ultrafire RCR123 cells that wouldn't fit any of the 2 cells lights. Maybe they should call it a 10460.


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## matrixshaman (Nov 11, 2009)

I just ordered some so I'll let you know here what they fit. I can try them in the Fenix L0D, ITP Titanium EOS AAA (when it arrives), Liteflux LF2XT, Liteflux LF2. I think that covers most of my current AAA lights :thinking:


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## DM51 (Nov 11, 2009)

Protection circuits usually add at least 2 mm to the length, sometimes 3 mm. If they have managed to fit the circuit into a smaller diameter, my guess is that it will be at the expense of extra length (not to mention the extra diameter due to the metal strip). With many smaller-size lights, obviously including AAA-size, any increase in dimensions will be critical to whether or not the cell will physically fit inside. 

We also need to know the settings used for high current cut-out etc.

But this is a very interesting development which is to be welcomed.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Nov 11, 2009)

what's special about these compared to the blue wrapper protected 10440? I bought a pair of blue wrapper 10440 protected ____fire's about half a year ago for a friend's flashlight. Do the gray wrapper ones hold more charge or something?


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## 45/70 (Nov 11, 2009)

DM51 said:


> With many smaller-size lights, obviously including AAA-size, any increase in dimensions will be critical to whether or not the cell will physically fit inside.




Yeah, @ 46mm in length (10460 ), they wouldn't fit in any of my 10440 lights.  I can't fit the unprotected UltraFire 10440's in my Extreme III's, and they're only 45mm. They don't work that well anyway, so no great loss (Edit: the UltraFires, not the Extreme III's). 

Dave


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## Kestrel (Nov 11, 2009)

I am wondering about the maximum current that the PCB will permit. One reason the LD01 is such a hotrod is that it discharges LiIon 10440's at over 2C IIRC - perhaps a cell with a protection circuit might not even operate in that light . However, I for one would prefer a protection circuit - I'd prefer another safety layer in the system instead of trying to get the absolute maximum output. Just my two lumens,


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## AlexD (Nov 11, 2009)

One more protected battery http://www.vaprlife.com/10prba.html
size: 10.62*46 mm


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## flatline (Nov 11, 2009)

Why would you want a protected cell in an LF2XT?

The light already had better protection built in (along with a volt meter so you can check whenever you want).

--flatline


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## Patriot (Nov 12, 2009)

Kestrel said:


> I am wondering about the maximum current that the PCB will permit. One reason the LD01 is such a hotrod is that it discharges LiIon 10440's at over 2C IIRC - perhaps a cell with a protection circuit might not even operate in that light . However, I for one would prefer a protection circuit - I'd prefer another safety layer in the system instead of trying to get the absolute maximum output. Just my two lumens,





Great point and I don't know why I didn't even think of this. I highly doubt that the protection circuit is going to allow anything remotely close to 2C. I'm a hot rodder and run 10440's in nearly everything so these cells will likely not be for me even if they did fit, which I don't suspect they will.


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## DM51 (Nov 12, 2009)

Post *#7*


DM51 said:


> We also need to know the settings used for high current cut-out


 
Post *#10*


Kestrel said:


> I am wondering about the maximum current that the PCB will permit


 
Post *#13*


Patriot said:


> Great point


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## dts71 (Nov 12, 2009)

"Facts:"

- With integrated PCB Protection
- Over current protection current: 4A
- Over current protection voltage: 0.2V
- Over charging protection voltage: 4.25V +/- 25mV
- Over discharging protection voltage: 2.5V +/- 50mV
- Lithium Ion 10440 cylindrical rechargeable batteries
- Lighting or other device needing 3.7V power
- Product print '600mAh', the exact capacity is 350mAh

The over current protection won't be in the way but rather offer some protection against a shortcut.


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## Kestrel (Nov 12, 2009)

DM51 said:


> Post *#7*
> Post *#10*
> Post *#13*


LOL, point taken.  I had my window open for the 12 minutes between your post (7) and my post (10), and thought I was the first to be posting that concern.


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## CampingLED (Nov 13, 2009)

There seems to be statements made of 1mm, 2mm and 3mm longer in this thread. Based on specs provided on the DX site it seems 1.81 - 1.77 = 0.04 in longer, i.e. 0.04 x 25.4 = 1.016mm longer than the unprotected 10440.


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## Benson (Nov 13, 2009)

If the specs are right, 4A is so high as to be totally pointless _except_ a dead short -- I'm sure your 10440s won't last long in continued service at 3.5A. 

But the undervoltage protection will probably be quite nice to have, and would likely trip so soon at 3.5A as to prevent any , just drastically shortened life..


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## Vikas Sontakke (Nov 13, 2009)

If you have those button magnets, you can add one or two to your existing 10440 cell and simulate the longer battery and see if the light under consideration can handle it.

Both of my 10440 needs to be replaced and I was almost going to order the protected ones but after putting the magents on my 10440, I realized that my light would not be able to handle the longer protected ones.


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## 45/70 (Nov 13, 2009)

CampingLED said:


> There seems to be statements made of 1mm, 2mm and 3mm longer in this thread. Based on specs provided on the DX site it seems 1.81 - 1.77 = 0.04 in longer, i.e. 0.04 x 25.4 = 1.016mm longer than the unprotected 10440.



*Edited*

DX's spec=1.81"

25.4x1.81=45.974mm

By comparrison, AW's original unprotected 10440's measure 43.4mm.

46-43.4=2.6mm 

Dave


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## Kestrel (Nov 13, 2009)

45/70 said:


> 46-43.4=2.6mm


Wow


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## Vamp (Nov 13, 2009)

I took some measurements on the size of AAA batteries I had laying around and got 44.4 to 44.6 mm on alkalines and 44.0 mm on unprotected Trustfire 10440.

Considering that the flashlights have to accept standard AAA, an extra 1.4 mm is actualy not too bad, but one has to check whether or not the spring of the flashlight will accept that extra length. This can easily be done by folding a little square of aluminum foil to 2 mm thickness and placing it at the back of an unprotected 10440 and try closing the flashlight.

I tried that with a Ultrafire A3 and it fits very tightly, if it was more 0.5 mm it certainly wouldn't close properly! But since it fits I'm getting a pair of them!


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## Hwy115 (Nov 13, 2009)

Will these batteries fit and work well in the fenix LD01?
Steve


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## VegasF6 (Nov 14, 2009)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> what's special about these compared to the blue wrapper protected 10440? I bought a pair of blue wrapper 10440 protected ____fire's about half a year ago for a friend's flashlight. Do the gray wrapper ones hold more charge or something?


 
Which ones would that be? If you mean sku 974 those aren't protected cells. Well, I don't own them, but according to reports they aren't.


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## timbo114 (Nov 14, 2009)

VegasF6 said:


> Which ones would that be? If you mean sku 974 those aren't protected cells. Well, I don't own them, but according to reports they aren't.



I own 974s - no protection.

TrustFire *Protected* 10440 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion Batteries SKU *30788*

found 1 additional source from the electronic cigarette ....
10440 protected


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## kanarie (Nov 15, 2009)

I have tested a 46,2 mm battery (a normal 44mm batt. with two 1mm magnet discs) in my Fenix lod-ce ; no problem and in my ITP A3 upgraded it was a tight fit but it worked (I know both these lights were not designed to take 3,7v)

funny: I just found out that a ITP A3 head works on a lod-ce body


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## matrixshaman (Dec 18, 2009)

I just finally got the protected Trustfire 10440 batteries today. I'll get some measurements and maybe pics later but I tried one in my iTP AAA EOS light (A3) and it didn't seem to work. Voltage was fine after charging but in looking at it next to a AAA NiMh the 10440 is huge - probably a 1/4" longer :shakehead
Not sure what these are going to work in but I'll try some other lights later like the Fenix LOD and a few other ones.


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## chibato (Dec 18, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> I just finally got the protected Trustfire 10440 batteries today. I'll get some measurements and maybe pics later but I tried one in my iTP AAA EOS light (A3) and it didn't seem to work. Voltage was fine after charging but in looking at it next to a AAA NiMh the 10440 is huge - probably a 1/4" longer :shakehead
> Not sure what these are going to work in but I'll try some other lights later like the Fenix LOD and a few other ones.


 
Hmmm, thanks for the post, was waiting for that info.


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## matrixshaman (Dec 18, 2009)

I just rough guessed it earlier but it looks now more like maybe 1/8" longer roughly. Okay found my micrometer - Trustfire = 46.54 mm and an old Energizer NiMh = 43.81 mm. So 2.73 mm longer or about .108" longer. One other thing I noted initially was that one battery charged normally whereas the other one seemed to green light (indicating it was fully charged) when the voltmeter reading was only 4.03 as it came off the charger. The other one came off at a more normal 4.15 for this charger. I'm still just checking this out as it may have been a contact problem.

I just tried it in the Fenix L0D and it works but I can tell it's compressing the spring quite a bit more than the Ultrafire 10440 that was in there. It looks like it's about the 1/10" or so longer than the Ultrafire also.


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## Yucca Patrol (Dec 22, 2009)

These new batteries work in my old Fenix L0D as well as with my new Maratac AAA. There is a little bit of a gap at the head, but that is to be expected with the extra length of the battery and is not very noticeable


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## compasillo (Dec 22, 2009)

Yucca Patrol said:


> These new batteries work in my old Fenix L0D as well as with my new Maratac AAA. There is a little bit of a gap at the head, but that is to be expected with the extra length of the battery and is not very noticeable



I got 4 of these on the way and hope they fit a bunch of my AAA lights. I'll post when they arrived wich they fit and wich do not.


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## peteybaby (Dec 22, 2009)

Just as important: do the batteries fit in the Nano charger?


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## compasillo (Dec 22, 2009)

peteybaby said:


> Just as important: do the batteries fit in the Nano charger?



Surely not. Nano charger is intended only for RCR123's (and RCR2 with spacers) and they all (protected and unprotected) are under 40 mm long. These batteries are 46 mm...


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## peteybaby (Dec 22, 2009)

compasillo said:


> Surely not. Nano charger is intended only for RCR123's (and RCR2 with spacers) and they all (protected and unprotected) are under 40 mm long. These batteries are 46 mm...



My Nano is made specifically for a 10440. I bought the Nano and 2 x 10440 batteries from AW.


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## Yucca Patrol (Dec 22, 2009)

peteybaby said:


> My Nano is made specifically for a 10440. I bought the Nano and 2 x 10440 batteries from AW.



Try fitting a 2-3mm spacer in with a battery to see if it will fit. You average key on your key chain is about the right size for something handy that can be poked in there along with a battery.


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## compasillo (Dec 22, 2009)

peteybaby said:


> My Nano is made specifically for a 10440. I bought the Nano and 2 x 10440 batteries from AW.



So you only have to add 2mm to your 10440. At first sight it doesn't seem to have room enough...


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## matrixshaman (Dec 22, 2009)

There is another charger that does nicely with these new 10440 and it was discussed somewhere else here as being one of the better chargers. Someone had checked it out and while it is a cheap charger it seemed to have some better features than slightly more expensive ones and seemed to shut off at a good point. I have found it to be an excellent charger which will charge 1.2 volt NiMH, 3.6 volt Li-Ion and 9 volt batteries. Best part is it was only $5 something from DX. I forget the sku but it's $5.71. It charges Li-Ions around 230 ma IIRC and is spring loaded so it can do anything from RCR123's to 18650's. It'll probably be slow for bigger batteries but the good thing is it's charge rate is low enough for 10440's.


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## compasillo (Dec 22, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> There is another charger that does nicely with these new 10440 and it was discussed somewhere else here as being one of the better chargers. Someone had checked it out and while it is a cheap charger it seemed to have some better features than slightly more expensive ones and seemed to shut off at a good point. I have found it to be an excellent charger which will charge 1.2 volt NiMH, 3.6 volt Li-Ion and 9 volt batteries. Best part is it was only $5 something from DX. I forget the sku but it's $5.71. It charges Li-Ions around 230 ma IIRC and is spring loaded so it can do anything from RCR123's to 18650's. It'll probably be slow for bigger batteries but the good thing is it's charge rate is low enough for 10440's.




Do you mean this Universal Smart Quick Charger?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14885

I have to say it's not exactly a "quick" charger but very reliable though. I've been using it for months with excelent results in all types of Li-ion batteries (18650, 14500, 10440, 16340). My best option when need to charge a single battery.


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## oronocova (Dec 22, 2009)

I have that same charger and it does seem to work ok. I have not charged anything other than Li Ion in it though.


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## 45/70 (Dec 22, 2009)

I have one also, and other than it being slow for larger sizes of cells, I think it works very well.

Some have said it wasn't a safe, or good charger, but when asked why, there was no response.

Link to wapkil's post.

Dave


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## Nake (Dec 22, 2009)

I remember this one mentioned in another thread. It states it charges at 500mA, but it's been tested to be really about 250mA. That would make it good for 10440s.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4151


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## 45/70 (Dec 22, 2009)

Those I believe I've heard not so good things about. For one the algorithm used is not proper, and I think it trickle charges after completion. Also, if it actually did charge at a rate of 500mA, you'd kill anything smaller than a 14500 or 16340 Li-Ion.

Dave


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## kaichu dento (Dec 23, 2009)

compasillo said:


> Surely not. Nano charger is intended only for RCR123's (and RCR2 with spacers) and they all (protected and unprotected) are under 40 mm long. These batteries are 46 mm...


I think I have three different sizes of Nano chargers in two different colors even!


matrixshaman said:


> There is another charger that does nicely with these new 10440 and it was discussed somewhere else here as being one of the better chargers.


Here's something worth looking at the Sabrewolf has in the works! :thumbsup:


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## 45/70 (Dec 23, 2009)

kaichu dento said:


> Here's something worth looking at the Sabrewolf has in the works! :thumbsup:



Cheap too!

That's the problem with custom fabrications. I don't doubt that Sabrewolf has come up with a nice setup, but so far I've found that it's easier to just make my own converted charging bays, using a hobby charger (BC-6 Bantam clone).

I am setup for 4 bay parallel for Li-Ion's, and am adding a 4 bay 1-4 Li-Ion cell series balance, or 1-4 NiMH/NiCd series charge. Not quite the same and not individual cell/channel capable, but the total cost, including charger, is going to end up at about $50. The charging bays were made from existing NiCd chargers that have been converted using 18 gauge wire and desoldering wick. I also have a 10 bay that I'm thinking what to do with, although it's kinda nice for forming NiMH cells, as is.

Still, as I mentioned, that is a nice setup and more versatile. 

I apologize to Vamp for maybe straying a bit OT, but either setup could be used to charge 10440 cells.

Dave


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## Jay R (Dec 23, 2009)

peteybaby said:


> Just as important: do the batteries fit in the Nano charger?


 
No.

They also didn't fit in my Maratac. Did fit in most of my Fenix lights but only just. The + end has a metal strip spot welded to it that makes the 'button' of the + a bit rough and makes a mess of your circuit board in the head of the light.

Didn't work in my Liteflux. Must be something to do with the protection circuit as it would only come on 'low' when you hold the button down. (strange !). Worked my LD01 fine but still scratched up the head.


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## kanarie (Dec 24, 2009)

My protected Protected 10440 arrived a few days ago
first impressions are good they fit a Fenix LOD-ce 
and also my ITP A3 multimode (tight fit though )
there is a sharp strip (tap) on the plus that you better sand down a bit. (like I did on the left battery on the photo)


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## kanarie (Dec 30, 2009)

I have tried to charge these batteries for the first time but they seem impossible to charge. Although empty (2,4V) the overcharge protection circuit kicks in after two minutes of charging. I think it is because the circuit "senses" the charger voltage instead of the batteries. (tried two different Li-ion chargers) and/or the cut-off voltage is set to low.
Result almost empty batteries


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 30, 2009)

"When empty (at 2,4V)" ... yes , that's pretty dang empty.

Some might even consider that " over-discharged ".

I'd attempt recharging that in the MailBox of someone I don't like.
.


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## compasillo (Dec 30, 2009)

kanarie said:


> ... Although empty (2,4V) ...
> ... Result almost empty batteries



They are not (almost) empty, they are DEAD



TooManyGizmos said:


> I'd attempt recharging that in the MailBox of someone I don't like.
> .



+1


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## compasillo (Dec 30, 2009)

kanarie said:


> My protected Protected 10440 arrived a few days ago
> first impressions are good they fit a Fenix LOD-ce
> and also my ITP A3 multimode (tight fit though )



Did you test their voltage on arrive?


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## droptop (Jan 8, 2010)

i just got some of the trustfire protected 10440s last pm. they charged fine(in my ultrafire wf-139), but i couldn't get them into my ultrafire 138 charger. what are you guys using to charge yours?
I tried to get it into my maratac aaa, but i couldn't get it to come on, it seems a tight fit. Anyone have this problem?
I have a lfx2 on the way i wonder if there is any benefit to trying them in this light or should i stick with the unprotected 10440's? i did see some mention of this in this thread earlier.


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## compasillo (Jan 23, 2010)

Finally I got 4 of these protected batteries.

Just to find out they don't fit or work with most of my favorite 10440 flashlights.

I've tried with my Maratacs (SS & Al), ITP upgraded/standard (SS & Al) and Preon I: they fit but don't work at all
(Other users have reported they work on IPT/Maratac but I tried 17 ITP and 7 Maratac with no success)

ALSO DON'T WORK ON 

Ultrafire A6, Ultrafire A3, Tank007 E06, Tank007 E08, Romisen RC-F7, Aurora SH0031

THEY DO ON

Fenix L0D, LD01 (tight fit), Quark Mini AA, Akoray k102, Akoray k103,
Tank007 701, 702, 703 (tight fit and cannot screw the tail up to the threads end )

The PCB is attached to the bottom of the cell


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## TooManyGizmos (Jan 24, 2010)

Looks like they are too long for most things and too Iff'y.

Just as I expected. 

Compasillo - thanks for all those details - very helpful to many I'm sure.
.


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## bob4apple (Jan 27, 2010)

Does work in mine...
doesn't work in mine...

It looks like there's a new lottery in town, the 
*Protected 10440 battery fits Game of Chance*!

Balls are in place...


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## compasillo (Jan 27, 2010)

bob4apple said:


> Does work in mine...
> doesn't work in mine...
> 
> It looks like there's a new lottery in town, the
> ...



That's it


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## LightOnAHill (Jan 27, 2010)

dag nabbit! doesn't work in the preon, huh. we'll, i'm chill with the unprotected ones


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## Tuikku (May 12, 2010)

Got two of these batteries.
Too tight fit to iTP, will not use. Goes almost well in L0D...
Tank007 E06 takes one with a short dummy-AAA just fine. This light is at work use so "too big" size does not matter...


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## shelm (Mar 6, 2012)

matrixshaman said:


> Okay found my micrometer - *Trustfire = 46.54 mm* and an old Energizer NiMh = 43.81 mm. So 2.73 mm longer or about .108" longer.





compasillo said:


> Fenix L0D, *LD01 (tight fit)*, Quark Mini AA, Akoray k102, Akoray k103,
> Tank007 701, 702, 703 (tight fit and cannot screw the tail up to the threads end )



how tight is the fit? would a cell with *47.1mm* (Protected Ultrafire, not Trustfire) eventually fit? i am thinking of placing an order for the Fenix LD01 XP-G R4/R5 (either aluminum or stainless steel, not sure yet). maybe someone can try to see if the Protected Trustfire 10440 cell which all of you got (popular cell!) could be pressed down further, e.g. by maybe placing a thin spacer or washer on top of the cell and then pressing everything down with a plane piece of wood or plastic (e.g. CD jewel case).

i would order the Fenix LD01 anyway i guess..


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## PapaLumen (Mar 6, 2012)

The last post in this thread was nearly two years ago...  You might have better luck starting your own thread.


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## moderator007 (Mar 6, 2012)

I have used them in a ITP A3 EOS. It was a very tight fit. I had to take a nail punch and slightly dent the top of the button making it cave in a little. This made the battery short enough to work. I had one battery that worked right out of the box. I can tell you from experience that if you hit the battery top (+) with something like a nail punch do not lay the bottom of the battery down on anything. The bottom (-) has the pcb on it. If you stand it upright on a table and hit the top with something it will destroy the pcb and may short the battery out. I know because i had to take one outside very quickly that starting heating up very fast. I thought it was going to go into flames. Left it in the drive way over night. Next morning i brought it in, took the wraper off and the destroyed pcb. Charged it up and the battery acted as nothing ever happened. Hold the battery from the sides and gently tap the top. I just held it my hand from the sides and held the punch with my figure and thumb on top of the battery and the other hand swung the very small hammer.


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## shelm (Mar 7, 2012)

moderator007 said:


> I have used them in a ITP A3 EOS. It was a very tight fit. I had to take a nail punch and slightly dent the top of the button making it cave in a little. This made the battery short enough to work. I had one battery that worked right out of the box. I can tell you from experience that if you hit the battery top (+) with something like a nail punch do not lay the bottom of the battery down on anything. The bottom (-) has the pcb on it. If you stand it upright on a table and hit the top with something it will destroy the pcb and may short the battery out. I know because i had to take one outside very quickly that starting heating up very fast. I thought it was going to go into flames. Left it in the drive way over night. Next morning i brought it in, took the wraper off and the destroyed pcb. Charged it up and the battery acted as nothing ever happened. Hold the battery from the sides and gently tap the top. I just held it my hand from the sides and held the punch with my figure and thumb on top of the battery and the other hand swung the very small hammer.


there is an easier way to make a Protected 10440 work in an iTP A3 (or in any other similar light). you can extend the body tube (body tube extension!) with a ring (or washer or spacer). It works really good that way.


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## VeloWeave (Apr 25, 2013)

Is this a quality battery, and how would it compare to the AW10440 from a performance and safety standpoint. I assume since it's protected it's going to be a safer alternative to unprotected but is there a tradeoff in performance, assuming the battery fits the flashlight.


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