# Surefire E2E-black HA3 question?



## H2Orower (Jul 25, 2008)

I found a great deal on the new KX2C 120 lumen led head (refer to "good deals" in the MP) and I'm looking to buy a SF 2-cell black body to put it on. It must be HA3 to match the KX2C. I like the looks of the black E2E, but I'm reading conflicting info on the anodization. The SF website claims that the black and olive drab are HA3, while the satin grey is HA2, but I've read posts and websites referring to HA2 black E2Es. What's the deal? I found a closeout special at LApoliceGear.com for a black E2E at a good price I think ($75), but the description mentions HA2. Could someone explain how you're supposed to know what you're getting? Thanks.


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## 270winchester (Jul 25, 2008)

if it doesn't say bk-ha, it's not hard anodized. what i understand is that level III anodizing is same as hard anodized.

give them a call and see if they can tell you.


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## SureAddicted (Jul 25, 2008)

270winchester said:


> if it doesn't say bk-ha, it's not hard anodized.



Not true. When I bought my E2E BK, printed on the box, it says E2E-BK. One way of knowing if its type II is if its shiny like the 6p/9p. If its matte like the E2D then its type III.


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## Size15's (Jul 25, 2008)

Firstly, the "3" in "HA3" is redundant - 'HA3' is a rhetorical tautology and a pleonasm.
Secondly, there is no such thing as "HA2" - the term is a contradiction in terms and in the context of the post does not appear to be oxymoronic.
(it can be expressed as '_Hard Anodised Soft_')

SureFire state that their "HA" is Hard Anodised to Mil-A-8625 Type III Class 2.

Mil Spec Type II is sulphuric acid anodising which is usually dyed. It provides the very basic in corrosion resistance, abrasion resistance, and dielectric properties.

Mil Spec Type III is sulphuric/oxalic acid anodising which produces a thick and dense growth (aka "hardcoat"). This "Hard Anodising" provides excellent abrasion resistance and corrosion protection, but is often difficult to colour.

Okay - back to the E2e...

Whilst the E2 was made in type II black, I don't believe it was never made in type III black (HA BK).
The opposite is the case for the E2e: whilst it was made in type III black, it has never been made in type II black.

In terms of the specific retailer you mention the best way to be sure is to request a photo of it. It is easy to tell the difference between type II and type III black anodised finish.


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## nikon (Jul 25, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Whilst the E2 was made in type II black, I don't believe it was never made in type III black (HA BK).
> The opposite is the case for the E2e: whilst it was made in type III black, it has never been made in type II black.


 
While you're almost always right regarding things Surefire, this appears to be an exception to the rule... http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=95030

I bought one and can verify that it was indeed Type II anodized.


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## matt0 (Jul 25, 2008)

If you're looking to buy the E2E just for the body, there are cheaper options. Unless you want the lamp, head and tailcap, you can get a black E2DL body from ttran97 in the Marketplace for quite a bit less...


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## Size15's (Jul 25, 2008)

nikon said:


> While you're almost always right regarding things Surefire, this appears to be an exception to the rule... http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=95030
> 
> I bought one and can verify that it was indeed Type II anodized.


Like I said I believe what I said was the case and it does appear the type II black E2e's are extremely rare (and not something I had come across before). Thanks for enlightening me - it would be cool to see some photos please!


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## ampdude (Jul 25, 2008)

Size15's said:


> The opposite is the case for the E2e: whilst it was made in type III black, it has never been made in type II black.



I'm pretty sure there are a few E2E's floating around out there with type II finish. I had a chance to buy one a couple weeks ago, but forgot about it, the guy said it was the glossy type finish, not the hard anodizing.. I've seen that a forum member had some advertised awhile back, saying they were rare.


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## Patriot (Jul 25, 2008)

nikon said:


> I bought one and can verify that it was indeed Type II anodized.




I don't think I've ever seen one and would enjoy seeing a picture if it's still possible to take one.

Thanks


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## Size15's (Jul 25, 2008)

Where's that "this thread is useless without photos" icon when you need it? :devil:


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## H2Orower (Jul 25, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the prompt replies and input. I stand corrected on the terms I used on my original post. So apparently the two possibilities are: Type II annodizing ("shiny",ie 6P) and Type III Hard annodizing ("matte",ie E2D). And, based on your responses, there are black E2Es of both types. It would seem to me that SF would have different model numbers to differentiate. Without seeing the item in person, how else could someone order one online? If the package says E2E-BK is it Type III HA? Could someone with both packages please confirm if possible?


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## greenLED (Jul 25, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Where's that "this thread is useless without photos" icon when you need it? :devil:


Here you go:









H2Orower said:


> ...based on your responses, there are black E2Es of both types. It would seem to me that SF would have different model numbers to differentiate. Without seeing the item in person, how else could someone order one online? If the package says E2E-BK is it Type III HA? Could someone with both packages please confirm if possible?



Al will correct me if I'm wrong here, but based purely on the SF parts code (and my own black HA e2e), I'd risk a guess and say:

Type II= e2e BK
Type III= e2e HA-BK


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## SureAddicted (Jul 25, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Al will correct me if I'm wrong here, but based purely on the SF parts code (and my own black HA e2e), I'd risk a guess and say:
> 
> Type II= e2e BK
> Type III= e2e HA-BK




For type III, its referred to as E2E BK, at least thats what is on the package. This has been discussed a while back.


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## greenLED (Jul 25, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> For type III, its referred to as E2E BK, at least thats what is on the package.


Mine said HA-BK. :shrug:


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## Size15's (Jul 25, 2008)

I think it's clear that due to SureFire not having this as a regular product option - making small batches of Black HA versions means they haven't been that consistent over the years when it comes to descriptors.


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## Patriot (Jul 25, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


>





Like in this image GreenLED.


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## JNewell (Jul 25, 2008)

Distinguishing Type II from Type III by eye is optimistic. Look at the variations in color and surface on the natural-finish lights - it gets worse with black.


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## ampdude (Jul 25, 2008)

H2Orower said:


> If the package says E2E-BK is it Type III HA? Could someone with both packages please confirm if possible?



I would say that's correct about 99% of the time with the exception of the few type II black E2E's floating around out there.

Every type III black E2E I've ever owned or seen has just said E2E-BK on the box.



greenLED said:


> Mine said HA-BK. :shrug:



I have not come across these myself. Thanks for the info.


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## H2Orower (Jul 26, 2008)

Wow...it's as clear as mud!  But really, I think I have a pretty good idea now. I'm feeling more confident that if I ordered an E2E-BK from an online source, that it would be Type III HA, which is what I want. It sounds like the Type II black finish is found on the less recently produced models. I might just take a chance.


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## Size15's (Jul 26, 2008)

JNewell said:


> Distinguishing Type II from Type III by eye is optimistic. Look at the variations in color and surface on the natural-finish lights - it gets worse with black.


I must have optimistic eyes because it's always been easy for me.
As others have mentioned it's about spotting the dull matt quality. In certain lighting conditions there's an obvious purple hue tint as well.
Type II as a consistent shade and an obvious gloss to it.
I am quite happy to be tested on this - show me some SureFires and I'll tell you whether they are black type II or black type III.


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## Electro Idiot (Jul 27, 2008)

My box says e2e-bk on the tag also, but on the back in the product description it states HA finish...


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## H2Orower (Aug 4, 2008)

Well, I went ahead and ordered the "closeout special" E2E-BK and received exactly what I was hoping for today. It is indeed black Type III hard annodized. I've got to say that I really like the look and feel of this little executive elite and there's part of me that is tempted to keep it just the way it is, but I bought it for a specific reason, and here it is below. My E2EL...

Before:







After: with KX2C conversion head





Thanks again everyone for answering my request for info on this light and it's finish.


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## matt0 (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks for posting that pic. I've been wanting to buld up a black E2L with a standard KX2 and that pic shows exactly what it will look like. Any pictures of it with the Z68 tailcap on it?


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## Size15's (Aug 4, 2008)

H2Orower said:


> My E2EL...
> ...with KX2C conversion head


I'd suggest calling this combination "E2LC". It's an E2L with a KX2C rather than KX2* bezel.
I'd prefer to call it "E2C" but the CPF already have an aftermarket product by this name and it would just confuse matters.
A different way to refer to it would be E2e+KX2C - this is perhaps the most clear.
One way that SureFire haven't gone is to replace the bezel (K) with the body type (E) so E2e+KX2C becomes 'EX2C'. I'm confusing myself now!! :green:*


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## Monocrom (Aug 4, 2008)

Size15's said:


> .... I'm confusing myself now!! :green:


 
Hmm.... Non-scalloped E2DL? :thinking:


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## Size15's (Aug 4, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Hmm.... Non-scalloped E2DL? :thinking:


Nice try!
However the E2DL is crenelated not scalloped.
The E2e and KX2C are scalloped (gentle) rather than sharp (crenelated)
Also the E2DL is dual output - the KX2C is single output.


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## Monocrom (Aug 4, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Nice try!
> However the E2DL is crenelated not scalloped.
> The E2e and KX2C are scalloped (gentle) rather than sharp (crenelated)
> Also the E2DL is dual output - the KX2C is single output.


 
One-output / non-crenelated E2DL. 

*-OR-*

Politically Correct E2DL. :thumbsup:


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## Size15's (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm thinking now about "E2CL" where the C references the KX2C


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## matt0 (Aug 4, 2008)

I like E2e+KX2C


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## H2Orower (Aug 4, 2008)

matt0 said:


> Any pictures of it with the Z68 tailcap on it?


 
That's funny you should ask. One of the first things I did when I got the light was to screw on a Z68 tail. Here you go:
















And here it is with it's Z68 little brother:


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## ttran97 (Aug 4, 2008)

E2Lc-BK

:thumbsup:


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## H2Orower (Aug 4, 2008)

There's lots of options for names. How about _Surefire KX2C Elite ? _

_or Executive Elite KX2C-BK ?_

Personally, I like to emphasize the "Executive" and/or " Elite" somewhere in the name since that is what is written on the side of the light.


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## Size15's (Aug 4, 2008)

ttran97 said:


> E2Lc-BK
> 
> :thumbsup:


I considered that also but didn't write it out - E2LC (you're right, E2Lc looks better now that I see it).
E2Lc is the best so far I think.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Aug 4, 2008)

Size15's said:


> SureFire state that their "HA" is Hard Anodised to Mil-A-8625 Type III Class 2.



Size15's - You did a wonderful job describing what SF code means, except for one thing. What is Class 2? :thanks:


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## Size15's (Aug 4, 2008)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> Size15's - You did a wonderful job describing what SF code means, except for one thing. What is Class 2? :thanks:


That's not SureFire code - it's US Military Specifications code.
I believe that the Class indicates whether the anodisation has been sealed (usually by boiling it in water). For dyed anodising I believe it has to be sealed.
On this note so that SureFire only need to quote one mil spec reference I believe they quote the dyed spec so they can cover both the black and the natural finishes...


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## tango44 (Sep 5, 2008)

H2Orower said:


> Well, I went ahead and ordered the "closeout special" E2E-BK and received exactly what I was hoping for today. It is indeed black Type III hard annodized. I've got to say that I really like the look and feel of this little executive elite and there's part of me that is tempted to keep it just the way it is, but I bought it for a specific reason, and here it is below. My E2EL...
> 
> Before:
> 
> ...




I'm about to order a Black E2E but I have a question.

Does It comes with a clicky or twisty tailcap?

Thank You.


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## matt0 (Sep 5, 2008)

tango44 said:


> I'm about to order a Black E2E but I have a question.
> 
> Does It comes with a clicky or twisty tailcap?
> 
> Thank You.




It comes with a clicky tailcap. The twisty is (unfortunately) no longer available.


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## tango44 (Sep 5, 2008)

matt0 said:


> It comes with a clicky tailcap. The twisty is (unfortunately) no longer available.



*As I understand H2Orower order from LAPolicegear but they do not provide a good description of the light, so I wanted to check what did he received from them.

Thank you.

*


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## H2Orower (Sep 5, 2008)

tango44 said:


> *As I understand H2Orower order from LAPolicegear but they do not provide a good description of the light, so I wanted to check what did he received from them.*
> 
> *Thank you.*


 
matt0 is correct. The tailcap is a Z61 clickie (here). 

I did indeed get my E2E-BK from LAPolicegear.com and you are correct that their website is not up-to-date with the picture and description they have. Despite what they show and say on their website, I received a current version of the E2E with a Z61 tailcap. Their website shows an old style twisty tailcap, but that is NOT what you will receive when you order. Hope that helps.


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## tango44 (Sep 8, 2008)

This is exactly what I need for the KX2C, thanks to all.


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