# Bad Review for Romisen RC-T6



## Northern Lights

I recieved one of these recently:
Romisen RC-T6 6*Cree Q4-WC 3-Mode 500-Lumen Mega LED Flashlight Gray (1-4*CR123A/18650)
Here is what I saw and know about it.

It is adverstised with three vendors, all have CPF connections, but they have conflicting specifications. Two state it has Q4 emitters, one says Q5. Output is questionable. Rated at 500 lumens or 1500 lumens or rated at 1500mAh. The XRE emitters whether Q4 or Q5 have a max of 1000 mA when run at Vf max. So 1500 mA makes little sense. Wonder what that figure really was suppose to represent.

I build LED mods and recently had to contemplate all of these factors. I built a 7X Q5 light with output @ 1600 lumens. T6 with 6x Q4 or Q5 could concievably be 1500 lumens. My light had $400 in parts just to build it. T-6 is under $50. link: 7-XRE Q5 Cree, 1600 lumen Scene Flood Light-DIY 
click to enlarge:




T-6 is very good looking and practicle in ergonomics. A forward side clicky is just right. It would be a good weapons light. The reflector is aluminum and well made. The electronics are on a long board under the switch, it looks like it runs high, med and low by running a constant output from 2,4 or 6 emitters.

BUT>>>

* It was DOA out of the box.* **​ 
The emitters are on a flat heat sync disk the size and thickness similiar to a Dollar coin. Each emitter is surrounded by an insulating material. They are glued with a ceramic epoxy. THE SYNC IS TOO SMALL FOR ANY MORE THAN RUNNING ONE EMITTER AND JUST FOR SHORT RUNS!!!! 6 cannot possibly work going full bore on the available power. I know how much heat the 7x Q5 makes, 110 degrees F in 12 minutes on a custom copper sync the size of a Mag D head. That is massive compared to this flimsy sync. 
click to enlarge:



I doubt they run this critter at full output, they can't it will overheat at TjMax @ 221 degrees. (thermal junction maximum) and then there should be some drop in output or LED death. The 1500 lumen output is wrong the 500 lumnen output listed by a vendor is likely correct but if 500 is all you are getting, why bother? 500 lumens is easily achieved with fewer LEDs and the P7s surpass that. Fewer LEDs are more efficient in energy use and heat output too.

Any time you use multiple emitters whether singly or under one lens like the P7 you have a flood type of beam. I had a similiar Romisen with 4 emitters and it was a good little light with a tight beam and brighter than R2s in the drip in modules. Handy and fit onto weapons readily. 

Another defect of the light besides being DOA was the wiring, the wire is of poor quality. To remove the guts first you take off the bezel and reflector and free the sync. The head then can be unscrewed and the wiring will not rotate with the head. If you unscrew the head without doing that the wires will twist up. The 3 pairs of wires representing the 3 LED groups are soldered to the end of the electronic board and the multistrand wire easily breaks it is poor quality. Handling the wires lead to 4 of the wires breakign off at the solder joint junction. 

One of the emitters did not align with the port in the reflector that was for it. Being that it is glued in place that was a manufacturing defect. It looks damage too.

The light looks great but design wise it just cannot work in a manner to be reasonable if it was not DOA.


Now what? 
The head bell is about 50 mm in diameter. What I plan to do now that would be a better choice for a lot of light is to get a light with two 18650a, a head of about 50mm with a good heat sync design and have it in the P7. We learned from the MTE that certain resistors could be jumped in such a light and get a direct drive function and modes by the PWM. 
P7 900 lumens MTE DX first impression I have done that on another P7s and the results was the LED was running at 3.2 Amps, higher than the OEM spec of 2.8 and the output was a very bright LED. Only my home made P7s put out more light.

So listen up...
:thumbsup: NEXT!​


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## cheetokhan

Mine works great. The LEDs on mine are glued to a 1/4" thick chunk of aluminum that is pressed against a lip under it so the heatsinking is fine. I ran mine on full power with 4 RCR123 cells until the cells were discharged and it got warm, but not hot enough to cause any damage.
On my light, all 6 LEDs line up perfectly with the reflector, but only in one position. When you re-assemble the light, rotate the reflector around until all the LEDs line up exactly and it will drop right in. If you just drop the reflector down, not all the LEDs are lined up with the original hole they were in when they were glued down.
I have not built an integrating sphere yet, so don't know how much light this is really putting out, but in a ceiling bounce test, the light from my RC-T6 is stronger than the 60 Watt incandescent bulb in the ceiling fixture.


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## kramer5150

Is it just me or is running 4xCR123 cells together at that high of a current draw risky and asking for a battery fire?


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## cheetokhan

kramer5150 said:


> Is it just me or is running 4xCR123 cells together at that high of a current draw risky and asking for a battery fire?



I used protected cells and I have some of AW's new IMR16340 cells on order just for this light. Right now I am running 2X18650 cells. Not quite as bright, but longer runtime.


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## Hellbore

Northern Lights said:


> ... Rated at 500 lumens or 1500 lumens or rated at *1500mAh*. The XRE emitters whether Q4 or Q5 have a max of 1000 mA when run at Vf max. So 1500 mA makes little sense. Wonder what that figure really was suppose to represent.



Did they really rate the light in mAh? That's funny 

Maybe after 1.5 Amp-hours the LED's burn out, maybe that's what it means


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## cheetokhan

I just happen to have my camera handy






Looking into the reflector.







LEDs nicely aligned.







Reflector removed, looking down at the LED assembly.







Glass Lens and o-ring.







Solid aluminum reflector.







Nice, clean, anodized threads.This was glued and I destroyed the o-ring that went in here getting it apart. The things I do for you guys







Typical crappy wiring for these 'less expensive' lights. But it gets the job done.







You see one black wire coming from the battery tube to the circuit board, then 6 colored wires from the circuit board to the LED assembly. That threaded ring on the right holds the circuit board in the battery tube.







Looking down the battery tube. There are no components on that round circuit board. It just holds the positive battery spring in place.







Here are all the guts pulled out. Left to right: Battery positive terminal board with spring, retaining sleeve, 3-way switch circuit board, retaining ring/nut, & LED assembly.






This shows the wiring passing through the center of the LED assembly.







Edge shot of the LED assembly and head. Note the silver ring in the head.







Here's another shot of the LED assembly and head.







Close up of the LED wiring.







There is a very smoothly machined silver ring inside the head. The LED assembly is pressed against that ring. Heat is transferred via that pressure fit from the LED assembly into the head and body.







Closeup of circuit board.







Closeup of other side of circuit board.


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## cheetokhan

I originally posted this info in BessieBenny's Budget LED thread. I'll copy it over here. 

_To give some sense of how bright the RC-t6 really is, here are some of my other lights in comparison. 

Romisen RC-c3 (CR123)= 4.3 Lux
Romisen RC-N3-Q5 (CR123)= 4.8 Lux
Kaidomain 4279 (18650) = 6.5 Lux
VB-16 (1X18650 or 2XCR123) = 10 Lux
Eastward YJXAQ5 = 10.4 Lux
Stock Mag LED (2XD) = 1.9 Lux 
Malkoff Mag (3XC) = 11 Lux
Lumapower MRV Digital (18650) = 7 Lux, (2XCR123) = 10 Lux
Raidfire Spear (18650) = 13 Lux
EX10GD (CR123) high= 4.7 Lux @ 1.04A battery current.
Jet II IBS (CR123) high= 8.1 Lux @ 1.28A battery current.
EagleTac T10C (CR123) low= 2.9 Lux @ 180mA battery current.
EagleTac T10C (CR123) high= 12 Lux @ 1.8A battery current. 
RC-T6 (2X18650) Low (2 LEDs) 16 Lux
RC-T6 (2X18650) Mid (4 LEDs) 28 Lux
RC-T6 (2X18650) High (6LEDs) 38 Lux
RC-T6 3XRCR123 cells- low=19.4, mid=38, high=55
RC-T6 4XRCR123 cells- low=18.3, mid=36, high=55
Battery current with 3 RCR123 cells is .5A, 1A, and 1.6A._


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## Northern Lights

Those are great pictures! That is exactly what I saw and it has the look of a good light but, DOA and my experince with 7 Q5s does not correlate to what we have here. I wish it did I really wanted that light to work as I had visions of them being mounted on some weapons. Maybe for a toy but not for the real business, no way those wires crumbled off my board.


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## Northern Lights

cheetokhan said:


> Mine works great. The LEDs on mine are glued to a 1/4" thick chunk of aluminum that is pressed against a lip under it so the heatsinking is fine. I ran mine on full power with 4 RCR123 cells until the cells were discharged and it got warm, but not hot enough to cause any damage.
> On my light, all 6 LEDs line up perfectly with the reflector, but only in one position. When you re-assemble the light, rotate the reflector around until all the LEDs line up exactly and it will drop right in. If you just drop the reflector down, not all the LEDs are lined up with the original hole they were in when they were glued down.
> I have not built an integrating sphere yet, so don't know how much light this is really putting out, but in a ceiling bounce test, the light from my RC-T6 is stronger than the 60 Watt incandescent bulb in the ceiling fixture.


 That almost makes me believe that the light I got had been monkeyed with before I got it and would explain the failures.


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## Northern Lights

cheetokhan said:


> Mine works great. The LEDs on mine are glued to a 1/4" thick chunk of aluminum that is pressed against a lip under it so the heatsinking is fine. I ran mine on full power with 4 RCR123 cells until the cells were discharged and it got warm, but not hot enough to cause any damage.
> On my light, all 6 LEDs line up perfectly with the reflector, but only in one position. When you re-assemble the light, rotate the reflector around until all the LEDs line up exactly and it will drop right in. If you just drop the reflector down, not all the LEDs are lined up with the original hole they were in when they were glued down.
> I have not built an integrating sphere yet, so don't know how much light this is really putting out, but in a ceiling bounce test, the light from my RC-T6 is stronger than the 60 Watt incandescent bulb in the ceiling fixture.


Do you have anything that is a common LED or hot wire to compare with? I wonder what it is putting out. Like I posted if it is 500 lumens it is a waste of design and time. That many LED in Q4 can be up around 1200 lumens shaming a 5761 or such.


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## Hellbore

These cheap Hong Kong lights do tend to have very crappy quality wires and soldering jobs.


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## cheetokhan

Northern Lights said:


> Do you have anything that is a common LED or hot wire to compare with? I wonder what it is putting out. Like I posted if it is 500 lumens it is a waste of design and time. That many LED in Q4 can be up around 1200 lumens shaming a 5761 or such.



Check post 7 above. I compared the TC-R6 against a bunch of lights with ceiling bounce tests. Mine is very bright.


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## Northern Lights

cheetokhan said:


> Check post 7 above. I compared the TC-R6 against a bunch of lights with ceiling bounce tests. Mine is very bright.


That is very good, I am not familiar with all of those, hopefully someone can hop in here and relate your works to lumens, maybe they know what the lumen ratings are.

LEDs for the most part push a larger percent of the light out front, not like a filament so the 65% rule does not apply to T-lumens. But for comparisons using the lumen ratings is a good comparison and very close to actual output I would think.

I would love to have someone compare to a known P7.
If it would beat the P7 it would be worth while and I would go another trial. I love the concept.


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## cheetokhan

Haven't got a P7 yet. Too many bad reports about pretty much every P7 I've seen. And I want a P7 that runs on 2X18650 with a side clicky, with 2 modes and absolutely no disco blinky modes. This RC-T6 would make a perfect host for what I want


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## tobjectpascal

That's nice, 3 regulated IC chips / inductance coils, 3 of everything which obviously means 2 led's are being shared by 1 circuit..

The good news is that if 1 IC dies, 4 LED's will continue to work


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## cheetokhan

tobjectpascal said:


> That's nice, 3 regulated IC chips / inductance coils, 3 of everything which obviously means 2 led's are being shared by 1 circuit..
> 
> The good news is that if 1 IC dies, 4 LED's will continue to work



Yes, the LEDs are wired in 3 pairs. Each pair is wired in series and has it's own driver.

I'd really like to mod this light to use one single driver to regulate the power to all the LEDs at once. Preferably wire all the LEDs in series and find a PWM driver with a simple UI.
Some day.....


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## Northern Lights

cheetokhan said:


> Yes, the LEDs are wired in 3 pairs. Each pair is wired in series and has it's own driver.
> 
> I'd really like to mod this light to use one single driver to regulate the power to all the LEDs at once. Preferably wire all the LEDs in series and find a PWM driver with a simple UI.
> Some day.....


there certainly is room to do that. Currently it is a boost circuit. The new Blue shark and remora can handle it. The 7x I built is on a blue shark. The problem is power supply, the shark will need 10+ volts. Vf is 21.0 volts. Whatever they have in it now is unique but not unlike the TM-800x3 wich usses 3 parallel circuits of One LED. Modamag had a mod for it that did what you propose and put all on one series circuit. The T6 appears to have three parallell circuits of 2 series LEDs. Now then those LEDs are 7.2 Vf total and the light with 18650s is 7.2 V battery. Not much of a boost easy to do for thermal management. On high each circuit has only 800mAh of power supply when using 2500 mAh 1850s. Using 123Acr is must be a buck circuit. 
You could use the Blue Shark with 123Acr batteries easy. Look at it a the sandwhich shoppe. My Q5 light uses it and many mods of Led Zeppelin do too. 
I have only one question and doubt remaining. How high is the lumen output and I doubt that sync can handle 6 XREs at an amp each. 500 lumen is reasonable for the physical size of the sync and body. If it was full power that entire head has less mass than the sink in my light which gets to 110 degrees in 10 minutes of high. That gorgeous T6 bugger is a companion for short run times. Compare it to the Romisen model with 4 emitters. That was practical and slightly brighter than an R2. The R2 is the brightest portable lighting solution out there with a single die at the moment (Osram has 6, P7 has 4).

BTW, led experimenter still has the tm-800x3. I am building one up with 3 C bin, J bin P7 stars, a PCB balanced pack made from 3 KD unprotected D lithiums and Batteryspace PCBs. It will modulate on the new beefier D2DIM PWN. The electronics, similar to the T6 come out and in goes a 5mm LED to glow the switch cap for GID find the light feature, a charging Jack, and more metal to be butt to the existing sync. The reflector is replaced with 3 McLux of some breed. In theory there is an hour on high at 2700 lumens. A 54mm UCL will be in the front. No blinky, a side switch and build on this pattern but with thee batteries and three emitters:
1.5 D P7, Modes, Charging Jack, Electronic GID & more 

Again I will heed the experienced warnings of Britelumens and LED Zeppelin, the syncs cannot handle high on multi P7s for long.


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## shadowjk

One thing that I don't get is, with these high power lights, shouldn't you start to worry if the body does NOT get hot? That'd mean heat is trapped inside and not transferred to the body?


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## Bullzeyebill

A runtime graph would tell the story on the Romisen RC-T6. Looking at the heat sink it looks like there will be a huge drop off in output within a few minutes on high. The only lights that may be getting close to 200 lumens in the list are the EagleTac T10C which shows 12 lux, the Malkoff 3C at 11, and the Rapid Sphere at 13 lux. The Romisen at 55 lux on high could equate to maybe 900+ lumens at startup. Obviously, medium and low would not present the same problems, heat wise, and would still be very reasonably bright, over time, for the price of the light. Just my thoughts, and guesses.

Bill


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## cheetokhan

I did a quick and dirty runtime test. Accidentally bumped the light near the end so the data kinda made a blip at 12:31. I'll redo this later.
I got 21 minutes from 4 AW rcr123 cells. Current draw at the start was 1.15A.


12:13 25.28Klux
12:14 23.68KLux
12:15 23.20Klux
12:16 22.88KLux
12:17 22.61KLux
12:18 22.39KLux
12:19 22.19KLux
12:20 22.02KLux
12:21 21.84KLux
12:22 21.69KLux
12:23 21.79KLux
12:24 21.65KLux
12:25 21.52KLux
12:26 21.40KLux
12:27 21.30KLux
12:28 21.21KLux
12:29 21.07KLux
12:30 20.94KLux
12:31 17.71KLux
12.32 18.05KLux
12.33 18.24KLux
12:34 18.40KLux


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## Bullzeyebill

That is not too bad for your setup. Medium would be pretty flat. What was voltage on RCR123's at start and finish?

Bill


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## cheetokhan

Bullzeyebill said:


> That is not too bad for your setup. Medium would be pretty flat. What was voltage on RCR123's at start and finish?
> 
> Bill



Open circuit voltage on the AW cells is around 4.15Vdc to 4.17Vdc. With a 1A load they quickly drop to around 3.7Vdc and then slowly decrease from there. 
I'm not sure exacty what voltage the protection circuit drops out. I tested them down to 2.8Vdc and the protection circuit had not yet dropped out. 
So, starting voltage after the very fist minute should be around 16.6Vdc and ending voltage somewhere below 11.2Vdc.

Edit: Here is a graph of my AW RCR123 cells. Worse than I remembered- one of them is only about 400mAh.


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## cheetokhan

shadowjk said:


> One thing that I don't get is, with these high power lights, shouldn't you start to worry if the body does NOT get hot? That'd mean heat is trapped inside and not transferred to the body?



The body on the RC-T6 gets quite hot after 20 minutes. You can still hold it, but it's pretty hot.
That's 20 minutes running by itself, not held or cooled in any way. It should be cooler in real use where you have your hand wrapped around it.


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## Northern Lights

You have 3 parallel circuits, three drivers. The amps you show are total amps to the drivers not what is delivered to the LED. We need to know Vf bin for this particular Q4 and the Vf delievered in order to calculate the lumens. Vf without the know bin for any XRE means you must consider teh entire spread of output for that model, in this case the the Q4. Knowing the Vf bin and you then know within a 100 lumens what the output is if you can get the Vf measurement. The amps measued here are only telling us what the three drivers are eating not what they output to the leds unless you cut out one of the LED leds and inserted the DMM and I doubt you did that to a new light to satsfy curiosity.

But the LUX reading is usable, very useful here. If you could get a LUX reading off a known light, one that publishes honest lumens then using Lux Luthors ration formula you could get an idea What these things are putting out. 
I still believe the 500 lumen report to be the output because you are talking about holding it after 20 minutes. Run at about 1 amp into all 6 and for twenty minutes and you should be up aroung the TjMax, 200+ Degrees. 
Still if the light is running 500-900 lumens spread to be generous, it still is too low for the bother of that many LEDs, for me.
But even if it were only 300 lumens that many LED in that reflector should make one great flood light putting it where you need it and not concetrating it as to be a loss on the outer edges. That is just a function of persona preference and it could be very useful, full bore brightness is not always good. That is why I used the remora in my Q5 build and the D2DIM in the P7. I can get low light levels in these flood monsters I have build. 

I guess I am still trying to figure out if this light is a roadster, nice with great bells and whistles or a dragster, one knock out instrument. 

I am sending mine off for refund. I will buy another if we ever figure out what the true lumen output is. 

Thanks for the help.


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## cheetokhan

Northern Lights said:


> unless you cut out one of the LED leds and inserted the DMM and I doubt you did that to a new light to satsfy curiosity.



That's coming . I don't have my soldering iron handy right now, but I will be testing LED voltage and current.


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## Northern Lights

Thats wonderful, above the call of duty. Thanks. I am wondering if there is anything in measurements we could use of P7 builds, I got three in progress, easier to take those when they are apart.


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## JimAC53

As a relative newbie to this strange and wonderful world I am hoping someone can help me with a DOA Romisen RC-T6, especially since you all could probably build one from toothpicks and paper clips. I followed the drill with DX and they told me to first try the forum on their site, which I found really, really useless - no good way to zero in on the topic. But I bought it after having researched this site among others and this is clearly the place to genuflect. First thing I did after unpacking it was gently unscrew all parts to check seals and lubricate, which is how I found there was a multi-wire connection between the head and PCB in the main barrel, to my amazement - seems like a bit of a trap. So when it wouldn't light up after re-assembly I gritted my teeth and slowly, gently unscrewed it again, only to find all connections firm and well soldered. I'm using the 2 x 18650 configuration with Tenergy batteries (2600 mAh, 3.7V) that I charged in a smart charger and that each produce light just fine in my Dereelight, and my digital multimeter shows good voltage. But nary a flicker in the RC-T6. I suppose it could be the switch but don't know the best way to get at it without damaging whatever water resistance the unit has - can't get to it inside the barrel unless I take out the PCB, and then it's Humpty Dumpty time, and I'm reluctant to just pull off the rubber cap. I'm okay if it's just dead, but want to have made the good faith effort to get it running first, and wouldn't mind avoiding the return hassle. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## cheetokhan

The only way to get it apart without damaging anything is to first unscrew the bezel and remove the lens and reflector. This lets the LED assembly float free so you can unscrew the head without twisting all the wires.
My bezel was glued tight. I gently whacked the head of my light against the edge of my wooden workbench right along the seam of the bezel and the head until the glue broke and I was able to unscrew the bezel.
Let me know if you can get that far.

Don't try to pry out the rubber cap. It doesn't come out that way. To get to the switch assembly and circuitry, you have to remove the head.


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## TORCH_BOY

Hellbore said:


> These cheap Hong Kong lights do tend to have very crappy quality wires and soldering jobs.




All mine have bad wiring and poor switches


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## Northern Lights

TORCH_BOY said:


> All mine have bad wiring and poor switches


 ditto on poor wiring...


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## JimAC53

Just when I was beginning to think it was a trick, the head came free and I was able to unscrew it. But now I find 2 of the wires going to the PCB in the handle have broken free of their solder beads on the board. I have a reasonably decent soldering setup but stripping the wires looks pretty challenging without losing any stands, especially considering how little play there is in the wire length. Perhaps RMA time. What kills me is this think is built like a tank, incredibly solid, well machined, the double O-rings; it's just the photon deficit that's a problem!


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## cheetokhan

JimAC53 said:


> Just when I was beginning to think it was a trick, the head came free and I was able to unscrew it. But now I find 2 of the wires going to the PCB in the handle have broken free of their solder beads on the board. I have a reasonably decent soldering setup but stripping the wires looks pretty challenging without losing any stands, especially considering how little play there is in the wire length. Perhaps RMA time. What kills me is this think is built like a tank, incredibly solid, well machined, the double O-rings; it's just the photon deficit that's a problem!



Yah, I really like mine. I just wanna replace the switch with a single mode clicky so it's either off or all on. I hate cycling through the modes and the only time I get this light out is when I need lots of light so I end up going to high anyway.


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## Northern Lights

JimAC53 said:


> As a relative newbie to this strange and wonderful world I am hoping someone can help me with a DOA Romisen RC-T6, especially since you all could probably build one from toothpicks and paper clips. I followed the drill with DX and they told me to first try the forum on their site, which I found really, really useless - no good way to zero in on the topic. But I bought it after having researched this site among others and this is clearly the place to genuflect. First thing I did after unpacking it was gently unscrew all parts to check seals and lubricate, which is how I found there was a multi-wire connection between the head and PCB in the main barrel, to my amazement - seems like a bit of a trap. So when it wouldn't light up after re-assembly I gritted my teeth and slowly, gently unscrewed it again, only to find all connections firm and well soldered. I'm using the 2 x 18650 configuration with Tenergy batteries (2600 mAh, 3.7V) that I charged in a smart charger and that each produce light just fine in my Dereelight, and my digital multimeter shows good voltage. But nary a flicker in the RC-T6. I suppose it could be the switch but don't know the best way to get at it without damaging whatever water resistance the unit has - can't get to it inside the barrel unless I take out the PCB, and then it's Humpty Dumpty time, and I'm reluctant to just pull off the rubber cap. I'm okay if it's just dead, but want to have made the good faith effort to get it running first, and wouldn't mind avoiding the return hassle. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.



What a way to enter a new forum and possibly hobby... IN THE DARK! lol.
I waited to respond this as my return was pending. On a world wide basis I do not know how many customers DX has but I recieved good personal service. I followed the procedure of correspondence and sending a photo. Within on day of my return shipment they refunded my money. They had not even recieved the package all that they had was the tracking. Albeit the refund was $1 short, a math error I presume, and they quoted my first response to them where I stated I would send light and batteries back. So the said they were refunding light, batteries and shipping. However I kept the batteries and wrote that. I hope they realize they only refunded the light and shipping, less $1 and I did not cheat them for the battery. Oh, that language barrier and so much business to keep track of.
I am perfectly satisfied both with them and that the light will not function above 500 lumens! (... if it functions at all)


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## Jarl

Do you guys reckon there's space for two shark boards? I'm kind of seriously considering getting one as a project light; 2 sharks at 1A for ~1500 lumens.


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## Northern Lights

Jarl said:


> Do you guys reckon there's space for two shark boards? I'm kind of seriously considering getting one as a project light; 2 sharks at 1A for ~1500 lumens.


yes and be sure to get the shark sink. You can hook 7 and this is only 6 LED to one shark but your battery min. voltage will be a problem with one shark, two sharks, 7.2V to each will handle 3 LEDs each if I did my shark numbers correctly. That would be interesting, but there is not enough watts to run for a long enough time to interest me anymore. And I am postitive from running 7 XRE on a shark and big sink that that little bity sink cannot handle high for very long.


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## jeffosborne

Could someone kindly post a beam shot from this light? Brightness is important yes, but if there are lines and artifacts in the beam, that sinks the boat for me. Thanks Northern Lights and everbody for this thread! Jeff O.


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## blueskip

I have one of these with a burned C3. Can anyone tell me what size it is? My eyesight ain't what it used to be! :mecry:

Or does anyone have a suggestion for making this simply on/off with no modes? I would much rather have it on/off no modes. It makes it much more useful for what I used it for without modes.

Thanks for any help in advance.


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## Northern Lights

blueskip said:


> I have one of these with a burned C3. Can anyone tell me what size it is? My eyesight ain't what it used to be! :mecry:
> 
> Or does anyone have a suggestion for making this simply on/off with no modes? I would much rather have it on/off no modes. It makes it much more useful for what I used it for without modes.
> 
> Thanks for any help in advance.


On/off direct drive or on a shark is the only way to do it. 6 led at 3.5 Vf means for direct drive you need 21 volts going to the LEDs as they have to be in series. The driver on this light was actuall three drivers hooked in paralle, each driver powering 3 LEDs in series for 10.5 volts. So they were using three boost drivers, and those hooked in parallel.
It will not be easy without using drivers to get these 6 working and that costs more money, good after bad. Besides the heat sink is way too small to run these at full bore any way, so after you reduce the output then these 6 have no advantage over a similiar sized light, like an MTE with a 52mm head and P7. The experience I had with this:
FS-7-XRE Q5 Cree, 1600 lumen Scene Flood Light-DIY 
and here
7-XRE Q5 Cree, 1600 lumen Scene Flood Light-DIY
taught me that the rominsen was an impossibility, it cannot work full bore, that was a real problem in designing the mod light.

There are several at DX, one is simple on/off.
This will blast the rominsen away:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14645 
That one is way bright, almost catches my 900 lumne D bin mod!
or
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12761
I compared the 5 mode to all of these:
FS-RECHARGEABLE 2D P7, Modes, Electronic GID & more features
FS-RECHARGEABLE 1.5 D P7, Modes, Electronic GID & more 
FS-RECHARGEABLE 2C P7, Modes, Electronic GID & more features 
and the rominsen cannot do what the P7 is doing with the reflecto that is all 5 P7 lights I described here.
The rominsen with 4 LEDs however is excellent. That is the limit of the sync and voltage for the size and it is a very good light with more output than the R2s I compared it to. But the P7 beats them all.
I will say and should put it into CHEERs that DX took good care of me and I had a refund before the light hit their return station in Florida. Excellent cutomer care. Bravo!

You can buy the P7 in the correct reflector as a module to drop into your dead romisen and save money;
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14413
you will need to do some modification because of the side switch and space that is for the dirvers, but I think it could be done if you insist on saving the poor dead body. I would wire the module to the switch and the switch to the + pickup and by pass all the drivers, leave the board as it supports the switch.
Good luck.


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## blueskip

It's not that I insist on saving the poor dead body. It has a burned C3. That's a .10 cent part. If it cost $40 to "save" the body, I have no interest. I'm not throwing good money after bad to fix it so to say. I'm just looking for a cheap way to get the light functional again. I can't see the burned C3 good enough to read the size or number. 

I can't be that difficult to replace though. I can see the solder joints pretty good. LOL Man it's tough getting old!


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## DarkIgor

Hi, I have a similar problem with my rc-t6. The switch has packed in. It cycles through the modes but when the switch is touched (or the torch shaken) it flickers on and off. I've had it to bits and it's definetely the switch, when it's on if you even touch the switch it goes off. I've been around it with the soldering iron but it's a mechanical switch problem. 

Checking with the multi meter the switch cycles between the three outputs. If I can get a switch that fits between d2 and c2 then it would convert it to two mode (on and off) which is what I want. Can anyone suggest a switch? I plan to use this without most of the body mounted on a bike with a seperate battery pack anyway.

My other alternative is to remove the board and wire direct keeping the leds in three pairs (three pairs in parallel). This is where my ignorance comes in, what would happen with this configuration? Would each LED still get 3.7v and 350mA or is the circuit board limiting it? Maybe I could just mount a switch on the current PCB.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Northern Lights

blueskip said:


> It's not that I insist on saving the poor dead body. It has a burned C3. That's a .10 cent part. If it cost $40 to "save" the body, I have no interest. I'm not throwing good money after bad to fix it so to say. I'm just looking for a cheap way to get the light functional again. I can't see the burned C3 good enough to read the size or number.
> 
> I can't be that difficult to replace though. I can see the solder joints pretty good. LOL Man it's tough getting old!


My friend... I am right there with you.. LOL Man it's tough getting old!


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## JimAC53

I went through the RMA process and can attest to very good customer service. Just got the replacement, and thought it was DOA also, but noticed the LEDs would light up briefly if I held it torch end up and bounced the butt end on my palm, so I put a little tinfoil between the two batteries even though I hadn't noticed any rattle (still using the 2x18650 configuration) and it worked, EXCEPT no "high" mode - goes from off, to 2 LEDs, to 4, then the same 4, then back to off. So I have to crack loose the head again and do some soldering.


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## Northern Lights

Some 18650s need a thin magnet on the + to elevate it up over the insulation so it will make contact. 
That was not the case for my issue.


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## DarkIgor

JIMAC53,

Sounds very similar to my problem, what happens if you wiggle the switch? I've found that if I grip the outside of the rubber switch and pull, it works. What's happening is that the small metal 'pushrod' is being pushed onto the switch inside by the rubber. The spring in the clicky switch is not strong enough to push the little rod back against the rubber cover. I'm not sure there is a fix other than to return it.

Does anyone have any suggestions for my previous post, ie bypassing the switch or circuit board all together?


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## brightarc

I rewired mine to exclude the diodes.
I added a mode board from a Romisen T-5 and rewired the switch so that the mode board does the on-off switching.

Using two 18650's, I now have a torch that has 1,9A output on max (630 mA per emitter).
The medium mode is 760mA (250mA per emitter) and it also sports a nice 2 Hz warning strobe : )

I am a novice in the field of electronics, but really it is a very easy thing to do.


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## Northern Lights

DarkIgor said:


> JIMAC53,
> 
> Sounds very similar to my problem, what happens if you wiggle the switch? I've found that if I grip the outside of the rubber switch and pull, it works. What's happening is that the small metal 'pushrod' is being pushed onto the switch inside by the rubber. The spring in the clicky switch is not strong enough to push the little rod back against the rubber cover. I'm not sure there is a fix other than to return it.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions for my previous post, ie bypassing the switch or circuit board all together?


I had a problem similiar on a light that had a button inside the switch rubber cover, the rubber button was a plunger that rode upon the clickie. It simply was too longand would not return to a position high enough not to put pressue on the slickie. I trimmed it so the rubber returned to a position just touching the clickie so the clickie only had to return itself and not press back against the rubber and that solved the problem.
I do not know it that is your problem or if the cover has that protruding button in it but you may want to consider the problem and this solution.


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## DarkIgor

BrightArc and Northen Light

Thanks for the replies. I've taken the board out and the switch is very temperamental even without the rubber cover. As I only want on and off, can I wire up directly to the LEDs keeping them as three pairs in parallel or do I need a board to limit the current?


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## brightarc

DarkIgor said:


> As I only want on and off, can I wire up directly to the LEDs keeping them as three pairs in parallel or do I need a board to limit the current?



What you need to do is:
Bridge D1, D2 & D3 and disconnect output #2 on the switch (the leg closest to the three inductors on top of the pcb).

Bridging the diodes will make all six leds turn on and disconnecting output #2 on the switch turns it into simple on-off operation.


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## DarkIgor

brightarc said:


> What you need to do is:
> Bridge D1, D2 & D3 and disconnect output #2 on the switch (the leg closest to the three inductors on top of the pcb).
> 
> Bridging the diodes will make all six leds turn on and disconnecting output #2 on the switch turns it into simple on-off operation.


 
Thanks for the help.

I've borrowed some kit from work for the weekend (nice small soldering iron and magnifying glass). I just need to check the terminology. When you say bridge the diodes do you mean put a jumper across each one individually (just replacing each one with a piece of wire). Or do you mean create a bridge with the diodes (in which case I'm completely lost). At the moment the switch seems to cycles between the three legs. As the switch is broken do you think one of the clicky switches on DX would work as a replacement as I'll only be using one position now? I also have several small toggle switches that I might try to use.


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## brightarc

That is exactly what I meant, put wire across them indivitually.
You could remove the diodes and replace them with jumper wire all together, after all smd diodes are nice to have : )

Oh, and removing the diodes makes the output jump from 1500mA to 1850mA.

This switch fits, sort off: http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5660
It is a 1-2-3-0 switch, bridge leg 1 & 3 and connect them to the bridged diodes. Leg 2 acts as a second 0 or off, if it isn't connected to anything.

I haven't found any simple on-off switches at DX, only 1-2-0 ones.


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## spiceygoat

Northern Lights said:


> Another defect of the light besides being DOA was the wiring, the wire is of poor quality. To remove the guts first you take off the bezel and reflector and free the sync. The head then can be unscrewed and the wiring will not rotate with the head. If you unscrew the head without doing that the wires will twist up. The 3 pairs of wires representing the 3 LED groups are soldered to the end of the electronic board and the multistrand wire easily breaks it is poor quality. Handling the wires lead to 4 of the wires breakign off at the solder joint junction.



I can personally attest to this. I had my T6 for less than an hour before I broke it. When I got it I noticed that two of the emitters were not working. I only had low and medium settings. I unscrewed the head to investigate and noticed one of the wires was broken. I figured that I could solder the wire back together when I had some free time. At that point I made a terrible mistake and tried to screw the head back on without removing the bezel and reflector and freeing up the sync. I heard a ripping noise as I tightened the head and immediately realized what I had done. I unscrewed the head to survey the damage. It turns out that I ripped all of the wires off the board and one of the wires took the solder and copper trace off board. 

The light was impressive when it was working and I didn't even get to see it on high. I would like to try and fix it. Does anyone know where I can pick up a replacement board inexpensively? Since the copper trace is missing from one of the connections I am unable to solder that wire back on. I know how to solder (albeit kind of crudely) and I can follow instructions but I have a very limited knowledge of how this stuff works. I'm also open to any suggestions that anyone might want to share. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


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## BikeSkiLights

Hey SpiceyGoat,

This looks like such a great light,
conservative design
...(the Q4 is driven so lightly,
... it's luminous eficacy approaches
... that of bin R2 at the 350 mA drive
... specification),
and simple mechanical switched
3-modes that provides redundancy. 
Too bad to hear of all the poor 
workmanship / poor manufacturing 
process / poor QA.

Nonetheless...

If there is any of the traces left,
you could scrape back the slobber
(solder) mask, strip extra insulation 
off the wires, come up through
the wire through-holes from the
other side of the board, 
...(as should have been done in the 
... first place --- you'd've likely only 
... broken the wire in that case, btw 
... this is a flaw in workmanship / 
... manufacturing process) 
fold the wires down on to the bare part 
of the respective trace 
...(refer to the last photo in post 7 of
.... this thread for relocating the wires)
and (carefully) solder the respective wire 
to the respective trace where they overlap.

Make sure there are no solder bridges
in your work. 

If you have access to some type
of insulator / protective coating 
akin to slobber mask, you may 
consider coating your work to
add help protect the repair.

Other than that you should be able to
reassemble the light and be back
up and running.

There are circuit board trace repair kit,
but the expense is enough that I'd look
more for a replacement board or some 
kind of kludge, like mabe somehow 
cramming 3 of the 4 drivers from 
DX Sku 3256 ($6.97 for 4) in there 
bleow the switch, and between the
batteries and LEDS.

Good Luck,


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## AvPD

Great review (+ followups), this is exactly the sort of thing I come to CPF for.


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## spiceygoat

BikeSkiLights said:


> Hey SpiceyGoat,
> 
> This looks like such a great light,
> conservative design
> ...(the Q4 is driven so lightly,
> ... it's luminous eficacy approaches
> ... that of bin R2 at the 350 mA drive
> ... specification),
> and simple mechanical switched
> 3-modes that provides redundancy.
> Too bad to hear of all the poor
> workmanship / poor manufacturing
> process / poor QA.
> 
> Nonetheless...
> 
> If there is any of the traces left,
> you could scrape back the slobber
> (solder) mask, strip extra insulation
> off the wires, come up through
> the wire through-holes from the
> other side of the board,
> ...(as should have been done in the
> ... first place --- you'd've likely only
> ... broken the wire in that case, btw
> ... this is a flaw in workmanship /
> ... manufacturing process)
> fold the wires down on to the bare part
> of the respective trace
> ...(refer to the last photo in post 7 of
> .... this thread for relocating the wires)
> and (carefully) solder the respective wire
> to the respective trace where they overlap.
> 
> Make sure there are no solder bridges
> in your work.
> 
> If you have access to some type
> of insulator / protective coating
> akin to slobber mask, you may
> consider coating your work to
> add help protect the repair.
> 
> Other than that you should be able to
> reassemble the light and be back
> up and running.
> 
> There are circuit board trace repair kit,
> but the expense is enough that I'd look
> more for a replacement board or some
> kind of kludge, like mabe somehow
> cramming 3 of the 4 drivers from
> DX Sku 3256 ($6.97 for 4) in there
> bleow the switch, and between the
> batteries and LEDS.
> 
> Good Luck,



Thanks Bikeskilights! I appreciate the info. I'm going to give this a try. :twothumbs


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## BikeSkiLights

spiceygoat,

how's(d) your repair go?
any photos?


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## tribalcop34

JimAC53 said:


> I went through the RMA process and can attest to very good customer service. Just got the replacement, and thought it was DOA also, but noticed the LEDs would light up briefly if I held it torch end up and bounced the butt end on my palm, so I put a little tinfoil between the two batteries even though I hadn't noticed any rattle (still using the 2x18650 configuration) and it worked, EXCEPT no "high" mode - goes from off, to 2 LEDs, to 4, then the same 4, then back to off. So I have to crack loose the head again and do some soldering.


 
I found this same problem. Correction I found was the flashlight needs a minimum of 8 volts to power all 6 LEDs. So if you are using 2 18650 at the highest charge they are 4.2 volts and that will last a little until they drop below 4 volts. I think if you look at again you will notice it changes leds but still only lights 4 total. If you run at least 3 CR123 you get 9 volts and no problem with flashlight. Currently I'm using 4 CR123 and have had no problems at all. I'm waiting for extension tube to come in so that I can use 3 18650 (I can use the extra length). So try this before you re-wire the whole flashlight.


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## GeneT

tribalcop34 said:


> I found this same problem. Correction I found was the flashlight needs a minimum of 8 volts to power all 6 LEDs. So if you are using 2 18650 at the highest charge they are 4.2 volts and that will last a little until they drop below 4 volts. I think if you look at again you will notice it changes leds but still only lights 4 total. If you run at least 3 CR123 you get 9 volts and no problem with flashlight. Currently I'm using 4 CR123 and have had no problems at all. I'm waiting for extension tube to come in so that I can use 3 18650 (I can use the extra length). So try this before you re-wire the whole flashlight.


 
Where did you locate an extension tube? I have one of these on order and would like to run 3 18650's too.

Thanks


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## tonyk007

I was thinking seriously of getting this flashlight when I came across this thread. Happily reading all the posts. Lots of interesting and informative stuff.

What happened back in April though? A newbie (like me) asked a question, got no reply, and there have been no posts since. Que? I don't get it.

Where did everybody go?

TonyK


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## Northern Lights

tonyk007 said:


> I was thinking seriously of getting this flashlight when I came across this thread. Happily reading all the posts. Lots of interesting and informative stuff.
> 
> What happened back in April though? A newbie (like me) asked a question, got no reply, and there have been no posts since. Que? I don't get it.
> 
> Where did everybody go?
> 
> TonyK


 We moved onto other models, I bet. One thing about Chinese LEDs, they do not take 3 years to advance like USA companies, they get going and make more lights. 

I think US R and D takes too long with the patents and legal, up to 3 years to get someting worth while out and then it is obsolete anyway. Look at all the adds for "Tactical" this and that and they only produce 60,80 100 lumens and the R2 is 250 lumnes now and the P7 lights can be an honest 900 lumens.

It would seem the R2 and P7 lights have surpassed this model. This model simply had a heat synchronizer plate, heat sink, that is too small and the wiring was too fragile.


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## AvPD

Northern Lights said:


> It would seem the R2 and P7 lights have surpassed this model.



Unforunately the Chinese P7s and MCE's still seem to be derived from incandescent designs and have heat transfer problems. I bought an Aurora 2x18650 P7 from DX but it just sits on my shelf gathering dust as the LED probably runs too hot on high and the resistor might burn out on low.
I think multiple emitters still have a valid use but there's few if any purpose-built designs. Cost-wise the multiple-die emitters have gone down so maybe multiple individual emitters have become economically obsolete.


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## Northern Lights

AvPD said:


> Unforunately the Chinese P7s and MCE's still seem to be derived from incandescent designs and have heat transfer problems. I bought an Aurora 2x18650 P7 from DX but it just sits on my shelf gathering dust as the LED probably runs too hot on high and the resistor might burn out on low.
> I think multiple emitters still have a valid use but there's few if any purpose-built designs. Cost-wise the multiple-die emitters have gone down so maybe multiple individual emitters have become economically obsolete.


Heat synch is a problem, you are correct. I built P7s on big synchs. I have gotton Chinese lights, p7 with 52 mm heads that have synchs almost, not quite, big enough. Definately the smaller heads cant handle high and need regulation, not resistors to get a decent run time at a reduced output.
Back on to building lights. My personal EDG is a 2C mag with a P7 on a sync, DD on 3.7V 26700, 2950 mAh Milwaukee tool pack battery. I use a D2FLEX output driver, not regulator. Incredible batteries give the D bin its needed 3.75 Vf. They charge at 5+ amps and on a jack in the light! The battery output is @ 11 watts, led uses 12 watts so run time @ .9 hours. But the chinese light with two 18650 cost @ $55 USD and the parts for the modded Mag was @ $110 USD. The like or similiar parts are, reflector, P7, variable mode, lithium powered.
If building lights was not your hobby what would you buy? The point is they are now priced for the average consumer, you are correct again I think.
Thanks for the comment.


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## chubbarificus

tribalcop34 said:


> I found this same problem. Correction I found was the flashlight needs a minimum of 8 volts to power all 6 LEDs. So if you are using 2 18650 at the highest charge they are 4.2 volts and that will last a little until they drop below 4 volts. I think if you look at again you will notice it changes leds but still only lights 4 total. If you run at least 3 CR123 you get 9 volts and no problem with flashlight. Currently I'm using 4 CR123 and have had no problems at all. I'm waiting for extension tube to come in so that I can use 3 18650 (I can use the extra length). So try this before you re-wire the whole flashlight.




HEllo tribalcop, 
can you please tell me where to get the extension tube for the romisen t6?

thanks


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## recDNA

Anybody ever do white wall shots? I wonder what the beam pattern looks like.


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## Northern Lights

recDNA said:


> Anybody ever do white wall shots? I wonder what the beam pattern looks like.


 Its a flood, head size about that of a 52mm lop with P7, looked about the same. With the advent of the P7 this light has no reason to be.
Not enough heat disapation to run full blast and not enough battery either Just a conversation piece that has been outdated.


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## cheetokhan

recDNA said:


> Anybody ever do white wall shots? I wonder what the beam pattern looks like.



Look here.


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## cheetokhan

Northern Lights said:


> Its a flood, head size about that of a 52mm lop with P7, looked about the same. With the advent of the P7 this light has no reason to be.
> Not enough heat dissipation to run full blast and not enough battery either Just a conversation piece that has been outdated.



But it's a good mod host. How about 4300 lumens from 6 P7 Leds?


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## Northern Lights

cheetokhan said:


> But it's a good mod host. How about 4300 lumens from 6 P7 Leds?


 
I have seen the post, impossible. There is no one more adept and experienced than Led Zepplin and Stefans and a couple more on this forum and they have tried to sync multi P7s.

Led Zep... will tell you, as he as built super sized heat syncs, it cannot be done for practical long runs.

LEDs of P7, MCe and bigger produce a lot of heat, a whole heck of a lot. Zep has told me his big lights with 4 or more P7s are wow lights,

A wow light you turn on, say wow and turn, off. As a matter of fact the author of the mod you refer to posted that somewhere about his mod, great job but no where to put the heat. As a matter of fact his skills are fantastic, but he admitted the heat keeps the light from running at full power.

Overheat the LED and out put drops, might as well forget it and also can burn out the LED. So say wow, and forget it, it is not practical. Even the P7 3x built by Der Witchel has heat problems, search the posts it is mentioned.

I am trying this on a triple P7 now: click to englarge the thumb.




It is a Der Witchel sync ontop of a TM-800x3 by Nuwai (shyguang). It has a chance with all the metal to work as a practical light at 2700 lumens. But needs to be tested.

Those itty bitty 18650 LEDs with the 52 mm heads have heat syncs way too small to work. It is applied physics, like gravity, very difficult to escape.

Part of heat transfer has also been tried at cpf is the ability to transfer the heat to your own body through your hand. So grip and the area immediately around the light play into this.

The light is not a good host. That is why those who have modded dont use it.


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## Northern Lights

click to enlarge

7-XRE Q5 Cree, 1600 lumen Scene Flood Light-DIY

Look at the heat sync in this, it is only 7 Q5's not even close to what P7s do. The heat sync and head are special.

Collaborated by Led Zepplin. It is a copper sync of a common aluminum one sold here on CPF and an additional plate of copper was put on top here again. Then the head was machined to have it sit tight, flush and with a lot of contact. It still has limits on full power. It runs on a blue shark, a buck driver.


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## recycledelectrons

I wanted to say "Thank You" to Northern Lights. Your pics helped me solve a problem that has been bugging me for years.

I got a Romisen RC-T6 from www.DealExtreme.com when they first came out. Mine would not light up 2 of the lights. I fiddled with it, and completely broke it. With your pics, and a little common sense, I've finally fixed it all these years later.

It seems the driver board has 6 wires connecting it to 6 LEDs. There are 3 pairs: Yellow/White, Red/Black, and Blue/Green. White and Black are grounds. Yellow and Red are positives. I don't remember about Bloe and Green now that my light is back togeather. 

Each set of wires connects 2 LEDs in series. There are 3 drivers driving 2 LEDs (in series) each. Now the 2-4-6 thing makes sense.

The front of the driver board has 3 sets of contacts, marked "+" and "-". After I figured it out, I just reconnected the wires they way you show then in your picture.

I get a feeling I was such an idiot years ago, that I missed the fact that that black wire going from the battery compartment to the switch board is a positive, and the ground is in the flashlight body. You can never debug a RC-T6 with the switch baord out of it!

Thanks again, Northern Lights.


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## Northern Lights

YOU'RE WELCOME


----------

