# JEERS to Curator - be aware of this Thief !



## toby_pra (Apr 11, 2016)

Hello!

Thats the first time in my life something like this happened to me, someone ripped me off.

His Name is Mark or Steve, dont really now. His Synonym here is "Curator". He seems
to live in Manchester/England. 

*First up! If anyone nows this Person or can help me in any Way, please shoot me a PM!
I have started legal Action here in Germany. Upper Authorities then the local Police will 
forward the Facts to the local Authorities. *

I dont really know, if this will end up in a Jugdement, but i will do everything i can to get this Person.

I was looking for a Hanko Trident Ti Twisted for my Fathers 75.Birthday. The hole Family collected 
Money to make this Possible. Curator shoots me an Email and send me some Pictures of a Gen.2 Hanko
he pretends to have. 3 different Pictures in 2 different Situations. I am such an Idiot to have him paid
by Paypal Gift, but he was very pleasent, i dont know why i did this. He aggrees with me to send only
fully insured and with tracking, due to a high Value Light like this. Althuogh i never had a lost Package
coming from the UK. 

Now are 5 Weeks are gone. Nothing! 

He still anwsered my Email and posted here once, that he has shipped both Lights. He seems to have
tried or sold another Hanko, he pretends to have. He NEVER provided any Trackingnumber to me. He 
said his Wife has send it and forgot to send it insured / trackable. 

Due to the fact i paid by Gift i had no chance starting a Claim thruogh Paypal. But Paypal Germany 
did start a Claim as a Gesture of Goodwill. At the End Paypal UK closes the Claim, because he again
pretends to have send the Light and provided to Paypal a tracking Numer - "003345678" and refers 
of a non existing Parcel Company. Pretty mysterious, but again he lies and cheated Paypal and me. 
I tried to complain against the Decision Paypal UK made. The only Way on the Website was to change 
the Claim to the Fact i got it, that is how the Website is working. The Person Curator is now lucky 
because he thinks that he is prepared once the Police will contact him.

Be aware Curator, you will get jugded!

You never shipped anything, or if you really did, not insured as you promised (your fault!!!).
You never provided a tracking Number.
You cheated me and Paypal with a wrong Tracking Number.

*The worst fo me, was the Situation when i needed to explain to my whole Family that i lost
the Money and have to Hanko...

This is what you have done to me Steve or Mark or whatever is your Name. I will never forget this!*

Any Help and Informations are HIGHLY appreciated. Once the Police Contacts Paypal the need to 
give his Adress to the upper Authorities.


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## Milw light (Apr 11, 2016)

Best of luck in resolving this. Lesson learned for me in being truthfull in the PP gift thing.


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## toby_pra (Apr 11, 2016)

Yeah Lesson learned. Somehow this Person will be jugded. If its not 
me, it will be Karma.


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## DellSuperman (Apr 11, 2016)

Sorry to hear this & i hope things will turn in your favor.. 
I barely escaped the exact same issue with a purchase of a JK Twisted trident too, just a month ago. The saving grace for me was that i wasn't able to pay via gift to get a discount & hence i was able to get all my money back. 
The "seller" took the photos of the legit owner & posed as the owner trying to sell the light he never owned..

There are just too many of these scammer/fraudsters that its difficult to know who are the legit ones & who are the fakes.


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## toby_pra (Apr 11, 2016)

That sou ds intersting...hmmm can sou foward the pictures to me?
Perhaps these are he same?


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## mcnair55 (Apr 11, 2016)

The lesson for all unless you know the person and have built up trust never ever send money via Pay Pal gift as you are asking for trouble in the event of a claim.On a personal note, I will never fall for the scam of buyer pays the fees either.If I am selling something I cover the fees and do not expect the buyer to.

One tip for UK users not sure for rest of the world,if possible when buying expensive items outside of Pay Pal always use a credit card as they will get your money back in the event of problems.


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## dc38 (Apr 11, 2016)

mcnair55 said:


> The lesson for all unless you know the person and have built up trust never ever send money via Pay Pal gift as you are asking for trouble in the event of a claim.On a personal note, I will never fall for the scam of buyer pays the fees either.If I am selling something I cover the fees and do not expect the buyer to.
> 
> One tip for UK users not sure for rest of the world,if possible when buying expensive items outside of Pay Pal always use a credit card as they will get your money back in the event of problems.



Words of wisdom^^


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## DellSuperman (Apr 11, 2016)

toby_pra said:


> That sou ds intersting...hmmm can sou foward the pictures to me?
> Perhaps these are he same?


That person removed all photos right after the deal was done, cant help u on this. Sorry man.. 

I was supposed to be 'buying' a brass Twisted trident from a person named Pat Hasbrook..


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## toby_pra (Apr 11, 2016)

Ahh ok, that sounds different. I was looking for a titanium one.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Apr 11, 2016)

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Toby, I'm greatly troubled to read of your, and your familie's, situation. I'm sure it was a very unpleasant task to inform them that do to fraud someone was able to swindle you out of the money they entrusted to you. I hope your family can forgive you. 

~ Chauncey Gardiner


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## sticktodrum (Apr 11, 2016)

That's really rough, I'm sorry to hear that. In the states, Hankos go for $1000 USD or so...and frankly I have no idea why anyone would send that much money to someone as a PayPal gift.


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## toby_pra (Apr 11, 2016)

Yes i dont know why i did that...i was in a Goodwill. Dont know why.

And Chauncey sure my Family forgives me, due its my Family. 
So my Father got a McGizmo haiku from me.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Apr 11, 2016)

toby_pra said:


> Yes i dont know why i did that...i was in a Goodwill. Dont know why.
> 
> And Chauncey sure my Family forgives me, due its my Family.
> So my Father got a McGizmo haiku from me.



Do they realize that when you committed fraud against PayPal you removed the protection provided to buyers, and that is why you can't get a refund?

~ Chauncey Gardiner


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## Str8stroke (Apr 11, 2016)

Gosh, I feel bad now. I remember when you posted the WTB. I almost contacted you to offer you mine. I was thinking really hard about upgrading to a super fancy Zirc version. But, this is sad, especially when you consider what a great guy Toby is. Junk like this is why I pretty much so stay away from any Gift payments. Unless I have done business with them before. Not that this is the case this time, but other reasons not to Gift: even things out of the sellers control can happen. They could fall gravely ill, auto accidents, family tragedy heck they can even die. One way I justify the 4% fees. It usually costs you less than a $1 a day to HELP protect your purchase. 
Just remember, even with using Goods & Services there are ways you can be scammed easily as both the buyer and seller. I won't post how it is done. In fact if you read all the scams you can figure it out. But there are ways to try and protect yourself there too. 

If someone is insistent on using Gift, especially high dollars, I walk. I liken it to a Money Order. Once it leaves your hands, it is a gone pecan. All the times I got burned on buying stuff and never getting it, I stupidly used Gift. Granted it was relatively "cheap" stuff. But still. In Toby's case, I would feel sick. Sorry to hear brother. 


Story time (only read this if you are bored) lol: I mixed up things shipping once. The buyer thought I was scamming him. I sold two lights. One expensive, and one cheap. I shipped a cheap light to wrong guy (on the West Coast), and the expensive one went to the wrong person on the other side of the US. I had a family tragedy the day I was shipping and I got mixed up. The first email I got was from the guy who got wrongly got the cheap light. He was totally freaking out cause he gifted the money and called me all kinds of nasty things. But, after all the insults, I gave him my cell number and talked to him and explained it was just a honest mess up. In the end, I made it all square. I owned a huge thank you to the guy who got the expensive light and helped me by not trying to skip off with it, and shipping it directly to the correct buyer. That dumb little mix up cost me almost $100 in overnight shipping expenses.
After I thought about it, the guy who got the expensive light, could have just never responded and kept the light. I would have been out of the light and the money!!


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## toby_pra (Apr 11, 2016)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Do they realize that when you committed fraud against PayPal you removed the protection provided to buyers, and that is why you can't get a refund?
> 
> ~ Chauncey Gardiner




i did now that before...the more i was an Idiot


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## Skeeterg (Apr 11, 2016)

So sorry to hear this,and I do hope you can catch this scum bag. Was it shipped to a po box or an address? Take care


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## derfyled (Apr 11, 2016)

I hate to see old and respected members getting ripped off. Good luck to you Toby and let's all keep an eye on this thief...


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## toby_pra (Apr 12, 2016)

Skeeterg said:


> So sorry to hear this,and I do hope you can catch this scum bag. Was it shipped to a po box or an address? Take care



What you mean? He hasnt shipped anything...i was trying to sell me a Hanko Trident Ti, i paid him,
but he never shipped. AND he seems to do that not only once. Paypal told me, that there are several claims 
regarding this Paypalaccount.


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## toby_pra (Apr 12, 2016)

derfyled said:


> I hate to see old and respected members getting ripped off. Good luck to you Toby and let's all keep an eye on this thief...



many thanks for the kind words.
keeping an eye on this Person seems to be necessary...


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## sinner-cpf (Apr 12, 2016)

So sorry to hear the trouble you have to go through because of this, I hope he gets what he deserves and you get justice. 
I've been in a position where i had to justify someone elses mistake to my family and it isn't the best feeling.


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## lefteye219 (Apr 12, 2016)

Sooo Sorry to hear about this scam you got cheated in Toby... Sad to see some scamster cheating the members of this community. I sell/bu most of my stuff as gift only to people I know and heave dealt with before... With new people, I always try to do as Fees included as that saves a lot of trouble in future..

I agree what Chauncey said, if we do as gift, we remove buyer/seller protection and with these kind of scums, at the end, its the genuine members who have to pay either monetary loss or item gone without money


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## toby_pra (Apr 13, 2016)

I will get this Guy....i am pretty sure. 
It seems the local authorities in Manchester are interested. Once i have the 
Informations from Paypal....


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## DellSuperman (Apr 13, 2016)

toby_pra said:


> I will get this Guy....i am pretty sure.
> It seems the local authorities in Manchester are interested. Once i have the
> Informations from Paypal....


I surely hope things turn out in your favor. Do update us on any outcome.. Good luck to u..


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## ven (Apr 13, 2016)

DellSuperman said:


> I surely hope things turn out in your favor. Do update us on any outcome.. Good luck to u..




+1 
what goes around comes around...
Hopefully as there are several effected , this may help you (hopefully)


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## newbie66 (Apr 13, 2016)

This is terrible! All that money wasted like that. Hope everyone who got cheated get their money back.


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## magellan (Apr 22, 2016)

DellSuperman said:


> Sorry to hear this & i hope things will turn in your favor..
> I barely escaped the exact same issue with a purchase of a JK Twisted trident too, just a month ago. The saving grace for me was that i wasn't able to pay via gift to get a discount & hence i was able to get all my money back.
> The "seller" took the photos of the legit owner & posed as the owner trying to sell the light he never owned..
> 
> There are just too many of these scammer/fraudsters that its difficult to know who are the legit ones & who are the fakes.



Unfortunately the web is a gold mine for people like this. 

I never use the gift option even if it's actually a gift. It only saves you a few bucks and if things go sour you don't have much recourse. Not worth the risk for just a few bucks.


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## magellan (Apr 22, 2016)

toby_pra said:


> Hello!
> 
> Thats the first time in my life something like this happened to me, someone ripped me off.
> 
> ...




Really sorry to hear about this and I hope you get this resolved eventually. You've always been a great guy to deal with.


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## Tre_Asay (May 3, 2016)

One means when dealing with strangers is to ask them to take a picture of the item with your username handwriten on a paper in the picture. This will at least confirm that they really have the item.


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## DellSuperman (May 3, 2016)

Tre_Asay said:


> One means when dealing with strangers is to ask them to take a picture of the item with your username handwriten on a paper in the picture. This will at least confirm that they really have the item.


That sounds like a pretty good idea. [emoji106]


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## Tre_Asay (May 3, 2016)

Perhaps a quicker way to fry a scam would to do a google search of similar images.

I also tend to take screenshots of proof of my transactions when dealing with new people.
Save webpages to your pc and keep records of the times etc.


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## stjong (May 6, 2016)

There are always something to learn, a couple weeks back I bought a lot of ecigs from China market for resell, I have no idea where do they get my email, most of the price is nearly half and I decided to buy a lot of thing for stock (cause I thought that company must be have a special access to the product so they get it cheap, which is I am wrong). I paid by western union cause I thought the fee is cheaper than PayPal, but I have realized that the fee is more than PayPal as I have to pay WU fee and my credit card fee cause that transaction is considered the cash advanced, but the fee is fine with me, the only thing is not fine is the product is CLONE, not ORIGINAL. If I pay by PayPal than I can cancel it but because I pay by WU, they received cash over there. Long story short I received the clone products which is the quality is far from what I expected.
For Toby, Hopefully you get the money that you lose for that bad guy, from somewhere else, like the other comment said, is Karma, you lose it for other place but you get it back from different place.


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## mcnair55 (May 6, 2016)

Tre_Asay said:


> One means when dealing with strangers is to ask them to take a picture of the item with your username handwriten on a paper in the picture. This will at least confirm that they really have the item.



Ever heard of Photoshop ? Your idea can be faked dead easy.


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## Tre_Asay (May 6, 2016)

That is why I also suggested a google search of the image, if they can find a picture that they don't own then you might be able to find it as well.

Also it isn't like there are a bunch of masters of photoshop who are skilled enough to make it convincing.
Of course there are always ways to get tricked.
The best defense is to always be able to get your money back.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jun 28, 2016)

Hi Toby,

I'm sure everyone here would be interested in an update. 

~ Chance


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## toby_pra (Jun 28, 2016)

Hi Chance

unfortunatly there is no update...the police starts the investgation
infound out that the pics were stolen by jeff, he never posted these public,
so this guy never had one
paypal told me that i am not the first one...

and he most bad to me personally, he was never banned here and is still a member of this place, a thief
a fu.... thief. I work myself for a secial victims unit and i know how hard it is to get these people even living ithin Europe
its only a little thief, not a major crime, what would be not a problem to get his Adress and get him.


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## toby_pra (Jun 28, 2016)

He ripped me off with 750$


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jun 28, 2016)

I am really sorry you have not been able to have him arrested. Thank you for posting. 

~ Chance


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## wimmer21 (Jul 6, 2016)

toby_pra said:


> Hi Chance
> 
> unfortunatly there is no update...the police starts the investgation
> infound out that the pics were stolen by jeff, he never posted these public,
> ...



Maybe... hopefully he's still allowed to be a member in hopes of catching him somehow? I don't know.

So very sorry to hear about what happened to you and to your father's gift.


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## Impossible lumens (Jul 26, 2016)

Man, these types are always working for any new angles to take the trust and money. They stand in your blind spot and wiggle there way under your skin like the parasites they are. In all walks of life they may appear, so unless the hard criteria are met, (you know them, there reputation within the context of your business with them, or they have provided absolute irrefutable proof of there intentions) then out the gate, process them internally as a scammer because the fact is that you DON'T know the person. Then the moment they hit you up for anything as unreasonable as sending such a quantity paypal gift, the only thing you'll be thinking about is how you're going to close the door with them.
.
:shrug: Even the best of us make newb mistakes. I'm sorry you got took in that way. However I feel the good news is that the best of us also learn a lot from these mistakes.


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## Impossible lumens (Jul 26, 2016)

I don't know if your hot on this persons trail or not, or what the case is. They say that the best revenge is good living. I know about the best revenge being good living, after I get this **$# too. But once you've done everything that is practical and reasonable, then going in circles for X amount of time after they've spent the money and forgot about you is certainly not any kind of revenge either.


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## Kestrel (Jul 26, 2016)

toby_pra said:


> [...] he was never banned here and is still a member of this place [...]





wimmer21 said:


> Maybe... hopefully he's still allowed to be a member in hopes of catching him somehow? I don't know.



Please keep in mind that CPF staff makes every effort to stay out of personal transactions.

Furthermore, CPF policy has been relatively consistent over the years in regards to letting members who are suspected of fraudulent activity remain a member of the forum as long as forum rules are being followed. For example, providing the other party the option of replying to the relevant issue in-forum would probably be at least some sort of a net-benefit compared to ensuring that they are not allowed to post any information at all.

IIRC, at least once this has resulted in an eventual positive outcome, to my knowledge.

... and to paraphrase Forrest Gump, 'and that's all I've got to say about that'.


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## Nicrod (Feb 1, 2017)

toby_pra said:


> i did now that before...the more i was an Idiot




Not an idiot, Just a kind trusting person. Hate seeing good people taken advantage of. 
Sorry toby, Karma will come around for this thief. 

was your father happy with Haiku?

Nick


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Feb 1, 2017)

A warning has been posted on Curator's visitor page. Hopefully people will conduct an internet search before doing business with him. He probably isn't using the same avatar elsewhere. FWIT 

~ Chance


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## toby_pra (Feb 6, 2017)

I am pretty sure he is still driving here....

Never heard anything back from the UK Police Authoritys
They have another System regulating such Claims. 

Here in Germany i have no Chance to start further Investigations because he
is located in the UK - that means that the illicit Act was done there


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## toby_pra (Feb 6, 2017)

Nicrod said:


> was your father happy with Haiku?
> 
> Nick




YES!


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 6, 2017)

Some forums log the IP address of members so when they ban you, You cannot even get on the website again you are immediately kicked-out, If you can get the IP address you can find the location and internet provider he uses, I hope you get this scum-bag.

Good Luck

John.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Feb 6, 2017)

toby_pra said:


> I am pretty sure he is still driving here....
> 
> Never heard anything back from the UK Police Authoritys
> They have another System regulating such Claims.
> ...


 
Sorry, Toby. Wish I was there to help.  

~ Chance


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## Offgridled (Feb 6, 2017)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Sorry, Toby. Wish I was there to help.[emoji14]
> 
> ~ Chance


Road trip Chance?


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## GrizzlyAdams (Feb 6, 2017)

not sure of the legal process or terms in Germany...but have an attorney draft a subpoena to Paypal for his personal information, then sue him. With $1000 on the line with maybe more victims, its worth a shot.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Feb 6, 2017)

Offgridled said:


> Road trip Chance?


 
More like air trip, but no. I was just goofin on some word play. Toby needs some Chance. 

~ Chance


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 6, 2017)

Sell the debt to an debt collector and then they can beat it out of his hide.

John.


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## trstick1 (Feb 6, 2017)

If you have the photos that the scammer send, before sending your money, there is a free website that you can upload the photos to and the website will analyse the photo if it is faked or not. It can show which part of the photo that was added to or changed. I have PayPal however it is best to use a credit card so can let them investigate the seller and get your money back.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 6, 2017)

Does it cost you more to send $100 via paypal as a purchase (protected) than as a gift (not protected), if so how much, If it was 10% would i as the buyer have to send $110 or does the sell only get $90 ??

John.


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## Offgridled (Feb 6, 2017)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> More like air trip, but no. I was just goofin on some word play. Toby needs some Chance.
> 
> ~ Chance


He does need chance this is horrible when people get taken advantage of!!


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## Bdm82 (Feb 6, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Does it cost you more to send $100 via paypal as a purchase (protected) than as a gift (not protected), if so how much, If it was 10% would i as the buyer have to send $110 or does the sell only get $90 ??
> 
> John.


It's about 4%. If you gift, the seller gets $100 and you have no recourse/protection. If you pay for a $100 purchase, the seller gets $96, paypal keeps $4, and paypal peotects/insures you. Of course paypal has time limits on claims, so often you lose your paypal recourse if the seller strings you along with broken promises and never delivers. I think it's 6 months but I haven't studied the terms in a while. 

Only use gift to friend/family if you REALLY trust the person. CPF has rules against sellers asking for paypal payment as gift to protect against fraud.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Feb 6, 2017)

Bdm82 said:


> It's about 4%. If you gift, the seller gets $100 and you have no recourse/protection. If you pay for a $100 purchase, the seller gets $96, paypal keeps $4, and paypal peotects/insures you. Of course paypal has time limits on claims, so often you lose your paypal recourse if the seller strings you along with broken promises and never delivers. I think it's 6 months but I haven't studied the terms in a while.
> 
> *Only use gift to friend/family if you REALLY trust the person. *CPF has rules against sellers asking for paypal payment as gift to protect against fraud.



If you use Friend/Family when making a purchase you are committing fraud against PayPal. 

~ Chance


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## Bdm82 (Feb 6, 2017)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> If you use Friend/Family when making a purchase you are committing fraud against PayPal.
> 
> ~ Chance


So there you go, readers. Follow the rules.


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## Cuso (Feb 6, 2017)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> If you use Friend/Family when making a purchase you are committing fraud against PayPal.
> 
> ~ Chance


Paypal don't care , but yes you are violating their terms of agreement. You are circumventing the system and making a payment for tangible goods when you are claiming it's a gift. So sorry to hear this happened to you Toby, I hope you get some resolution to this mess.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Feb 7, 2017)

Cuso said:


> *Paypal don't care *, but yes you are violating their terms of agreement. You are circumventing the system and making a payment for tangible goods when you are claiming it's a gift. So sorry to hear this happened to you Toby, I hope you get some resolution to this mess.



Why do you believe that PayPal doesn't care? 

From PayPal's User Terms Agreement - *You may not use the “send money to a friend or family member” feature in your PayPal account when you are paying for goods and services. 

*https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full


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## YummyBacon! (Feb 7, 2017)

They certainly care about the lost revenue due to fraud.


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## Offgridled (Feb 7, 2017)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Why do you believe that PayPal doesn't care?
> 
> From PayPal's User Terms Agreement - *You may not use the “send money to a friend or family member” feature in your PayPal account when you are paying for goods and services.
> 
> *https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full


+1


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## Cuso (Feb 7, 2017)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Why do you believe that PayPal doesn't care?
> 
> From PayPal's User Terms Agreement - *You may not use the “send money to a friend or family member” feature in your PayPal account when you are paying for goods and services.
> 
> *https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full


They don't care how you use the gift option. With the sheer amount of scams by the use of it, they should have regulated it by now. The only reason the gift option is there is so Paypal can be relieved of charge-backs. Back in the day Paypal used to be free as long has you didn't go over a limit of transactions a month, but due to charge backs , they moved everyone to a "premier/business" accounts, charge the operating fee and created the gift/friends and family option. Send all the money you want for free, but we dont take responsibility for the transaction.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Feb 8, 2017)

Cuso said:


> They don't care how you use the gift option. With the sheer amount of scams by the use of it, they should have regulated it by now. The only reason the gift option is there is so Paypal can be relieved of charge-backs. Back in the day Paypal used to be free as long has you didn't go over a limit of transactions a month, but due to charge backs , they moved everyone to a "premier/business" accounts, charge the operating fee and created the gift/friends and family option. Send all the money you want for free, but we dont take responsibility for the transaction.



Thank you for providing an answer to my question. 

~ CG


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## Kestrel (Feb 8, 2017)

OK folks, while the above discussion might be of some interest and/or assistance, I'm afraid the detailed PP discussion is OT for this Jeers thread.


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## nbp (Feb 8, 2017)

Kestrel said:


> OK folks, while the above discussion might be of some interest and/or assistance, I'm afraid the detailed PP discussion is OT for this Jeers thread.



Not to mention misleading... PP TOS indicate that F & F is not permitted for use when buying G & S. If they didn't care, they would say so. Their inadequate enforcement of their rules does not make breaking them okay. At any rate, encouraging PP fraud is not permitted here. See Rule 11. Thanks.


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## Cuso (Feb 8, 2017)

nbp said:


> Not to mention misleading... PP TOS indicate that F & F is not permitted for use when buying G & S. If they didn't care, they would say so. Their inadequate enforcement of their rules does not make breaking them okay. At any rate, encouraging PP fraud is not permitted here. See Rule 11. Thanks.


No one is encouraging Paypal fraud, Im saying the option needs to be regulated to avoid issues like this one. It been discussed many , many times yet folks still keep paying for stuff using the gift option and sellers keep asking for gift payments. It needs to stop. Paypal makes it too easy to violate their own rule. I think the gift option should be taken away completely.


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## nbp (Feb 8, 2017)

Gotcha. Sorry, I may have misunderstood your initial post. I thought when you said PP doesn't care you were condoning the misuse of F & F.


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