# The Fenix HP11 - a Review in Four Parts



## subwoofer

For me, headlamps have to be one of the most useful sources of light; I would not be without one. As it happens, I have quite a few and this number has recently increased by one with the Fenix HP11, which arrived a couple of weeks ago.

In this review I will give my initial impressions along with some measured output figures and then look at how it has performed for me.


PART 1 – Initial Impressions:

The HP11 is Fenix's most powerful and latest headlamp. Compared to the completely self contained headlamps I am used to, the HP11 is a step up in performance and runtime with its separate battery box.

When running on Turbo the HP11 is very bright and its hotspot can be blinding, creating a limited field of view at close distances. Because of this, and the problem with the standard diffuser (as described in parts 2 and 3) my initial impressions were disappointing, however, with further use I have found the HP11 to be a very useful and versatile headlamp.


What is in the box:

The well presented Fenix box







The plastic carrier tray out of the outer sleeve







The HP11 parts out of the box (Headlamp with battery box, straps, cable clips and diffuser)






Detail of the top strap buckle which allows the band to be passed through the gap in the central bar. 








The rear of the lamp and battery box, also showing that like the top strap, there are angled gaps in the band fixing points.







The English side of the instruction leaflet (click to get a bigger image)






Putting it together:

As shown above, the headlamp arrives with the straps not attached. Although not very complicated, it was a bit fiddly to assemble, and the instruction leaflet does not take you through any steps and all I had to go on was the one photo of it assembled on the leaflet.

Having read a report from one user that the top strap was way too small, I looked at this carefully and found that this strap needs to be reconfigured before attaching it, but this is not mentioned anywhere in the instructions. After reconfiguring it, the top strap is the right length. The main headband did not need to be reconfigured, only fitted to the lamp and battery box and the cable clips fitted.

The fact that the torch comes unassembled is a bit of a pain, but then again, it does mean you have to learn how to put it together and can then remove the strap to wash it.

The way it all fits together also means that only the strap itself is in contact with your head, so after using it for a while the strap can be removed and washed clean, and is comfortable to wear (unlike some manufacturers who make headbands with bits of hard rubber sticking into your forehead).


Fully assembled lamp






Battery box opened (by unscrewing the knob on the side of the box).









Overall quality is very good and it feels like it will survive pretty hard use, though I do wonder how tough the plastic fixing points are for the bands.


The LED is well centred.








The buttons are partially covered when the torch is in its most closed position. This seemed very odd at first, but would provide a degree of protection from accidental switching on of the light if carried in a bag. You have to angle the lamp by one click position to access the buttons.








Modes and User Interface:

The HP11 has two electronic click switches with the left one (when wearing it) turning it on and off, and the right one changing modes. The output modes are Low, Medium, High, Turbo and when accessing the hidden flash modes (by double clicking the power button) an automatically cycling strobe which alternates between a 15 Hz and 2Hz strobe, a slow strobe and an SOS. Turning it on and off again clears the strobe, so in normal use you never accidentally get to the strobe.

For a right handed person, this seems to work very well as when you reach up the on/off button falls under your finger tip easily, with the mode button needing a slight adjustment to find. As you are more likely to use a single mode most this works well.

The use of a separate mode-changing makes this light really easy to use, always coming on in the last used mode (apart from strobe). You might however accidentally change modes if you press the wrong button.


Size comparison:

Due to complications of photographing myself wearing the HP11, I enlisted the help of a Baloon-Head that was inflated to roughly the same size as my own head.












And from above







For reference here is a Zebralight H51







and Ultrafire H3 (18650 powered)








Batteries and output:

The recommended power source for the HP11 is a set of high performance NiMH batteries but it will work with alkalines. I have been using a set of eneloops as my preference is for rechargeable batteries.

There have been some comments on this headlamp not taking certain batteries. I can confirm that inside the battery box there are some plastic braces which mean that if the batteries you use do not have a button sticking out, they would not make contact with the terminal (unless you cut away the plastic). In practical use, I have never seen this for AAs (only some types of Li-ion) and the eneloops I used had plenty of clearance and made good contact. Normal AA batteries should have no problems making contact.

When loaded with Eneloops the HP11 weighs 290 grams.

Indoors and just sitting on a table, the front of the lamp gets pretty warm after 15 minutes on Turbo, but never too hot to touch. Once it has reached this temperature it stays stable at that temperature and doesn’t get any hotter. (It reached 53 Degrees Celsius when running on Turbo and as a comparison, the Fenix TK45 gets to 49 degrees)

None of the parts in contact with the users head get hot.

The instructions have a confusing comment which I suspect has been copied from another torch's instructions incorrectly. It advises unscrewing the lamp head to avoid parasitic drain. I have applied reasonable force (and being 188cm tall and 100Kg in weight, is quite a lot of force) and the head would not unscrew. I did not feel applying any extra force would be good for the HP11 so think this must be a mistake in the instructions.



PART 2 – In The Lab

As in a previous review of the TK21, I decided to try and quantify the actual beam profile. There are probably many flaws in my method, but it is simple and easy to carry out and seems to provide a good enough comparison.

The method used was to put the light on the edge of a table 1m from a wall, with a tape measure on the wall. The zero of the scale is placed in the centre of the hotspot and a lux meter is then positioned at points along the scale, with the measurements recorded. Beam shots are often taken with the light shining on a flat white wall, so this method is simply measuring the actual intensity across the beam on a flat surface, not the spherical light emission.

The results are then plotted on a graph.

For the best throw you want to see a sharp peak with less of the distracting spill. For the best flood light the trace should be pretty flat.

The HP 11 comes with an optional diffuser which changes the beam profile considerably. Unfortunately its design means that the user is blinded as the edge of the diffuser glows brightly in your peripheral vision which has made it unusable for me.








Taking this a little further, I calculated an approximate factor to apply to the lux measurements, as each measurement gets further from the centre of the beam, it corresponds to a larger area onto which the light is falling. It seems to me that this should also be taken into consideration, so I applied these area corrections and came up with this odd looking graph.

The key quantity here is the area under the graph line. This should correspond to the total light output. Here you can see the diffuser has put more light energy into the spill and widened the hotspot.








PART 3 – The HP11's beam

My preferred use of the HP11 is without the diffuser. Here is the beam on Turbo. 








The HP11's diffuser is flawed in my opinion as the edge of the clear plastic diffuser lights up brightly, and due to the lamp projecting forward, the diffuser is placed into your peripheral vision. Despite the diffuser working well, it becomes blinding and I cannot use it.

Here you can see the beam with the diffuser, but also notice how brightly the lamp itself is now glowing (and lighting up the balloon-head).








The diffuser is fitted, but flipped up, still catching the light strongly.







The beam is very well formed and when viewed on a white wall has a minor defect on the hotspot, but you have to look for it, otherwise the beam is excellent.



PART 4 – Using the HP11

Looking at it and a few graphs doesn't tell you much about what this is like to use and how it performs in different situations. This is a heavier headlamp than I normally use, but the extra weigh is comfortable distributed thanks to the separate battery box, making it very comfortable and even with the strap not being very tight it feels secure and has never felt it would come off even when bending over to pick things up from the ground.

The instructions list cycling, searching and caving as potential uses and the marketing material adds camping, hiking and fishing.

Most caving lights are fully waterproof (IP-X8) but the HP11 is only IP-X6, so this may limit its use in more extreme caving where you need to be able to submerge it.

The output is impressive and the fact it will do up to four hours on turbo also impressive. The turbo output would probably be excellent for caving as it has a good throw (see beamshots below) and enough spill to see your way, but I'll leave further comment on that to a real caver.

Primarily configured as a thrower and, especially on higher outputs, it does not work well at shorter distances, however if you keep it on low or medium, the brightness of the hotspot is far less of a bother, and in fact I have found myself using the HP11 on medium most of the time. If the diffuser was redesigned with the edge of the clear plastic part covered with opaque plastic (see comments below) this would work really well. I'll see if I can DIY this and post an update.

The angle is adjusted with click stops which are positive and well spaced and I have always been able to find the right angle for closer or more distant use.

For camping, hiking and fishing, this light will work very well, as none of these need specific headwear. The output settings are well spaced and very useful and I would imagine that once you have played with turbo for a bit that it will be one of the least used outputs, only coming into play occasionally. Don't get me wrong though, that maximum output is very useful to have on tap.

As I religiously wear a cycling helmet (and mine has a visor), the HP11 has not worked for this purpose as it does not fit securely onto my helmet, however, if you don't wear a helmet it certainly has the power to be a great cycling light.

My other headlamps are smaller and lighter (though less powerful and shorter run time), but their size makes them easy to pocket for intermittent use. The HP11 is much bigger and heavier and is something you would tend to put on for extended periods.

On the higher outputs you start to become aware of the beam of light projecting from your forehead. The tight hotspot means you see a narrow column of light projecting forwards, which is quite good fun  and a characteristic none of my other headlights have ever exhibited.

I'm going to keep on using the HP11 and update post 2 of this thread once I have some more comments to add....

(Note: this light was supplied by Fenix for review)


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## subwoofer

OK a few updates:

I've tried the Sharpie colouring in of the edge of the diffuser to reduce the glare and although it does indeed take the edge off, it is still not good enough for my eyes. Also, by using black, the light trying to get out of the edge of the diffuser is wasted. My next attempt will be to remove the black with meths, and then use white correction fluid to cover the edges (and then use the Sharpie to colour them black afterwards) so that the light will hopefully be reflected back into the diffuser and be of some use. The correction fluid also should be opaque so block the annoying glare from the diffuser.

I've also been abusing some eneloops:-

As far as battery configuration goes, they appear to be in series as it is not possible to remove any battery and still run the light. This means that inevitably one of the four will run out of power first, and the remaining three will still push power through it. So far the light has refused to run out. I lost turbo, then high, then medium, and now it doesn't even output the low setting, but it is still on. This very dim output has been running for hours (sorry haven't kept count), but I must be running one of those batteries very very low. Not sure how long to keep abusing the batteries, but the main message here is that despite being current controlled, this light won't leave you in the lurch as it just seems to keep running even if it is getting very low.


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## LittleBill

although i see what you mean about the diffuser lighting up when in use. to say its unusable is a stretch in my book. i have used the light over 12 hours in the dark. with the diffuser down the whole time. running wire in a completely un-lit basement. using between med-high. never once felt blinded..


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## vali

About IPX ratings, higher number not always means "better". Just check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code. According to this, IPX6 means it is protected agains high pressure water, whereas IPX8 means it can be submerged more than 1m. Most of manufacturers only quote IPX8 without a specifit depth. It can be 1.001 m (less pressure than IPX6).


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## kevinm

For caving you want the IPX8 as you are likely you run into submersion, rather than little jet nozzles spraying water. Also, the slow leak of air out (and water in) is usually harder to prevent, most of the time. 

That written, interesting point, Vali. I have never seen a headlamp or flashlight with the rating IPX6/IPX8, which according to the source from Wikipedia would mean it has both ratings.


Nice review!

Kevin


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## Beacon of Light

Thanks for the review, but I prefer the simplicity of Zebralights. They are just smart with minimal bulk and wires and battery packs. Heck on low I bet the runtime is greater with a H31/H51 (with 1xAA or 1xCR123/1xRCR123) than this Fenix H11 on low (with 4xAAs).


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## peterharvey73

Thanks for the very good review, photographs and graphs - you put a fair bit of time and effort into this Subwoofer...


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## Beacon of Light

The H51 on low 384 hours on 1 AA.

Fenix H11 on low 206 hours with 4xAAs which would make super efficient use of that many AAs in series.

Even the H51 on the other low (2.2lumens) is 72 hours. If you just multiply that by 4 you get 288 hours, and if you factor an efficiency factor of an extra 35% to that for being in series, you'd get 388.8 hours!!!

For me, I'll stick with the Zebralight. Nothing to see here...


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## subwoofer

LittleBill said:


> although i see what you mean about the diffuser lighting up when in use. to say its unusable is a stretch in my book. i have used the light over 12 hours in the dark. with the diffuser down the whole time. running wire in a completely un-lit basement. using between med-high. never once felt blinded..



I did say that for me it was unusable, as the bright edge of the diffuser stabs at my hyper-sensitive eyes. I also went on to say that I have been using it happily without the diffuser. The photo shows how bright it is so people can make their minds up. I will be modifying the diffuser before using it again, you are lucky if you don't need to.




vali said:


> About IPX ratings, higher number not always means "better". Just check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code. According to this, IPX6 means it is protected agains high pressure water, whereas IPX8 means it can be submerged more than 1m. Most of manufacturers only quote IPX8 without a specifit depth. It can be 1.001 m (less pressure than IPX6).


 
The IP ratings are an incrementally increasing scale with the higher ratings implying passing the lower ones, otherwise, if this could not be inferred, you would see all items with IP ratings quoting the lower ones as well (as commented on by kevinm). Wikipedia, by the way, is not the 'Font of all Knowledge'; it is a collection of submitted articles by well, or poorly, informed people. Useful, but not definitive.




Beacon of Light said:


> The H51 on low 384 hours on 1 AA.
> 
> Fenix H11 on low 206 hours with 4xAAs which would make super efficient use of that many AAs in series.
> 
> Even the H51 on the other low (2.2lumens) is 72 hours. If you just multiply that by 4 you get 288 hours, and if you factor an efficiency factor of an extra 35% to that for being in series, you'd get 388.8 hours!!!
> 
> For me, I'll stick with the Zebralight. Nothing to see here...



If zebralight works for you, then great, but there is still something to see, even if it just allows you to decide it is not for you.

Long runtime without changing batteries, very high maximum output which can run for four hours. Very simple interface allowing you to easily stick with the output you like or just as easily change it. (the Zebralights I have come on either moon mode or high and not low or mid without holding the button or double clicking, so if you like low or mid, the HP11 makes it easier to use these).

I'm not selling these, but it is horses for courses, it may not suit you, but it will suit some. It is nice to feel your support for all the effort that goes into doing a review like this.




peterharvey73 said:


> Thanks for the very good review, photographs and graphs - you put a fair bit of time and effort into this Subwoofer...



Thanks for noticing. Yes a lot of time and effort goes into a review (this one has probably taken a total of 24 hours of work to plan, test, photograph and write up). Some of the other reviewers on CPF post up the most amazing runtime/voltage/output information which makes my simple graphs look very basic, but these are the only tools I have, so I try to do the best I can.

I know how much I appreciate a well rounded review when I am choosing a new torch, so wanted to share my own findings if it can help someone else with their choice.


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## Father Azmodius

A quick fix for the diffuser issue is to take a sharpie to the outer edge. I work nights for everyone's favorite phone company, in varying light and environmental conditions and this light works well. Two of my coworkers have liked mine so much they now have their own.


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## robostudent5000

Beacon of Light said:


> Thanks for the review, but I prefer the simplicity of Zebralights. They are just smart with minimal bulk and wires and battery packs. Heck on low I bet the runtime is greater with a H31/H51 (with 1xAA or 1xCR123/1xRCR123) than this Fenix H11 on low (with 4xAAs).





Beacon of Light said:


> The H51 on low 384 hours on 1 AA.
> 
> Fenix H11 on low 206 hours with 4xAAs which would make super efficient use of that many AAs in series.
> 
> Even the H51 on the other low (2.2lumens) is 72 hours. If you just multiply that by 4 you get 288 hours, and if you factor an efficiency factor of an extra 35% to that for being in series, you'd get 388.8 hours!!!
> 
> For me, I'll stick with the Zebralight. Nothing to see here...



yeah, because people buying the HP11 are looking for something small, will only use the low mode, and really, really care about low mode efficiency. yeah! 

:shakehead


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## vali

subwoofer said:


> The IP ratings are an incrementally increasing scale with the higher ratings implying passing the lower ones, otherwise, if this could not be inferred, you would see all items with IP ratings quoting the lower ones as well (as commented on by kevinm). Wikipedia, by the way, is not the 'Font of all Knowledge'; it is a collection of submitted articles by well, or poorly, informed people. Useful, but not definitive.



Forget about wikipedia... just search in google about "IPX rating" and choose any of the first hundred of links. Almost all of them say literally the same thing.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the pressure generated for the IPX6 stream of water is higher than dunking the light a meter.


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## kevinm

subwoofer said:


> The IP ratings are an incrementally increasing scale with the higher ratings implying passing the lower ones, otherwise, if this could not be inferred, you would see all items with IP ratings quoting the lower ones as well (as commented on by kevinm). Wikipedia, by the way, is not the 'Font of all Knowledge'; it is a collection of submitted articles by well, or poorly, informed people. Useful, but not definitive.



I thought the same thing, so I read the whole article cited as the source for the Wikipedia page. Near the bottom of the source article it mentions that the 5/6 and 7/8 ratings are independent. My guess is that IPX8 USUALLY implies IPX6, but I could concoct a case where that wasn't true (maybe a sealed plastic ball that is waterproof to 1m, but whose walls are thin enough that the jets would burst it).

I agree, Wikipedia should be taken with a grain of salt. Some stuff on there is just wrong (some of the history stuff for example), while the differential geometry is dead on. I tell my students that it's a great place to find primary sources, but you should never believe it directly!

Kevin


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## subwoofer

Although I could discuss the details of IP ratings more:

I'm re-reading my review and I said that, as the HP11 is rated IPX6, not IPX8, it may not be suitable for full immersion as a caver might need. Why are we talking about the exact details of IP rating? The HP11 is rated IPX6 not IPX8, so, as stated, is not rated for full immersion.

What was the point you were making?


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## DisrupTer911

Will it survive a several hour torrential downpour?


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## Beacon of Light

I can't imagine in 2011 people are going out of their way wanting big bulky headlamps like this when there are efficient 1 cell lights. I could see if there was a runtime benefit that having a huge 4 cellpack hanging on the back of my headband digging into the back of my head and strands of wires hanging around and then a third top strap making me feel like a cyborg would have but as I posted there is no runtime benefit over something like a Zebralight. By the end of this month Zebralight will be offering the H600 a 1x18650 cell with runtime of 1920 hours or 80days!!!!! 500 lumens for 2.1 hours, 330 lumens for 3 hours and 200 lumens for 6 hours all on 1 cell (18650) and no weird battery packs and no tangling wires or bulky top head strap.



robostudent5000 said:


> yeah, because people buying the HP11 are looking for something small, will only use the low mode, and really, really care about low mode efficiency. yeah!
> 
> :shakehead


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## robostudent5000

Beacon of Light said:


> I can't imagine in 2011 people are going out of their way wanting big bulky headlamps like this when there are efficient 1 cell lights. I could see if there was a runtime benefit that having a huge 4 cellpack hanging on the back of my headband digging into the back of my head and strands of wires hanging around and then a third top strap making me feel like a cyborg would have but as I posted there is no runtime benefit over something like a Zebralight. By the end of this month Zebralight will be offering the H600 a 1x18650 cell with runtime of 1920 hours or 80days!!!!! 500 lumens for 2.1 hours, 330 lumens for 3 hours and 200 lumens for 6 hours all on 1 cell (18650) and no weird battery packs and no tangling wires or bulky top head strap.



i'm sorry your imagination sucks as bad as it does. some people actually do need a headlamp that can run 130 lumens for 8+ hours, has good throw, and runs on easy to find batteries. 

and even if there weren't, you should still have enough consideration for the reviewer who took the time and the effort to write the review for the benefit of the community to not simply dismiss the product that he reviewed as being irrelevant.


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## frosty

What a great review. Thanks for all the time and effort it must have taken.


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## arizona1

Thanks for the great review, I bought one before i was able to read a review such as yours but its still a great look at the hp11.


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## arizona1

If anyone is interested in the comparison of tint in the hp10 versus the hp11... the hp11 is a warmer tint (this is really only because of the pretty blue light of the hp10)... i was defiantly curious about this because i already had the hp10 before i bought the hp11 and wanted to know how they compared in that regard.


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## DisrupTer911

Do you think it's sealed enough to be usable in a torrential downpour?


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## LittleBill

DisrupTer911 said:


> Do you think it's sealed enough to be usable in a torrential downpour?


 
absolutely


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## Jackasper

Beacon of Light said:


> I can't imagine in 2011 people are going out of their way wanting big bulky headlamps like this when there are efficient 1 cell lights. I could see if there was a runtime benefit that having a huge 4 cellpack hanging on the back of my headband digging into the back of my head and strands of wires hanging around and then a third top strap making me feel like a cyborg would have but as I posted there is no runtime benefit over something like a Zebralight. By the end of this month Zebralight will be offering the H600 a 1x18650 cell with runtime of 1920 hours or 80days!!!!! 500 lumens for 2.1 hours, 330 lumens for 3 hours and 200 lumens for 6 hours all on 1 cell (18650) and no weird battery packs and no tangling wires or bulky top head strap.


 
Holy anger!
How can a headlamp review get a person so bent? I didn't know this was a comparison...
Great review, I have both the HP10 and the HP11. Love them. Thanks for your time and effort.


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## degarb

Beacon of Light said:


> I can't imagine in 2011 people are going out of their way wanting big bulky headlamps like this when there are efficient 1 cell lights. I could see if there was a runtime benefit that having a huge 4 cellpack hanging on the back of my headband digging into the back of my head and strands of wires hanging around and then a third top strap making me feel like a cyborg would have but as I posted there is no runtime benefit over something like a Zebralight. By the end of this month Zebralight will be offering the H600 a 1x18650 cell with runtime of 1920 hours or 80days!!!!! 500 lumens for 2.1 hours, 330 lumens for 3 hours and 200 lumens for 6 hours all on 1 cell (18650) and no weird battery packs and no tangling wires or bulky top head strap.


 
This is like comparing a moped to an RV for a cross country trip. You need a moped for best single person across city, while a Van is best for a cross country trip.

Similarly, you will never paint or high speed bike or dry wall or detail carpentry or do serious work with a weak cell, diffuse light. You will end up killing your self and doing inferior work. More lux also means more runtime, because you can use lower settings and still see. More flood also means reduced night vision and less ability to see.


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## Beacon of Light

ok sorry for my rant. Great review I didn't mean to slight the OP for that at all. I'm just perplexed people still WANT a bulky light like this in 2011. Do you guys not know about Zebralight? It's sort of bewildering to me just like that there are still people using the Incandescent forum when LEDs do everything more efficiently and brighter than incandescents which are so 1970... If my grandfather were still alive I'm sure he would have ditched his Eveready incandescent lanterns and made the switch to LEDs.


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## Beacon of Light

you need throw for carpentry or painting? Do tell... if anything for close tasks like that you need flood, pure unadulterated flood. I do electronic work and flood is perfect for rewiring things and soldering. Throw would be goofy and casting shadows when working close up and doing intricate work with tweezers and magnifying glasses. You might also be assuming (and you'd be wrong) that all Zebralights are flood only as there are alot of spot/spill lights (most Zebralight fans actually prefer the full flood models to the newer type ZL has offered).

Not trying to derail the thread further, but I did want to defend some of the comments directed towards me.



degarb said:


> This is like comparing a moped to an RV for a cross country trip. You need a moped for best single person across city, while a Van is best for a cross country trip.
> 
> Similarly, you will never paint or high speed bike or dry wall or detail carpentry or do serious work with a weak cell, diffuse light. You will end up killing your self and doing inferior work. More lux also means more runtime, because you can use lower settings and still see. More flood also means reduced night vision and less ability to see.


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## subwoofer

Updated post #2


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## robostudent5000

Beacon of Light said:


> I'm just perplexed people still WANT a bulky light like this in 2011. Do you guys not know about Zebralight?



you keep bringing up this Zebralight, so maybe i should give one a chance. can you recommend me one that can do the following: 

i need a minimum of 130 lumens for 8 hours continuous use. 
i need peak output that's close to 300 lumens and peak intensity that's close to 6000 cd on max. 
i need it to throw 150 yards in a pinch.
i need it to run on AA batteries. 
since i'll be wearing it on my climbing/caving helmet, weight isn't a real big issue, but front/rear balance is very important. 

i look forward to trying a Zebralight that meets my needs.


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## Beacon of Light

Pretty sure a H51 with a lithium 14500 would do the trick and if not that then possibly their upcoming H-502 which will be even better than the previous H51. Win/win here as you're using less batterys (less waste to the environment if you are still using primaries and not NiMH recharageables) and getting the same performance with a 4-5x increase in efficiency and a lighter more streamlined (comfortable) headlamp. You'll thank me later.



robostudent5000 said:


> you keep bringing up this Zebralight, so maybe i should give one a chance. can you recommend me one that can do the following:
> 
> i need a minimum of 130 lumens for 8 hours continuous use.
> i need peak output that's close to 300 lumens and peak intensity that's close to 6000 cd on max.
> i need it to throw 150 yards in a pinch.
> i need it to run on AA batteries.
> since i'll be wearing it on my climbing/caving helmet, weight isn't a real big issue, but front/rear balance is very important.
> 
> i look forward to trying a Zebralight that meets my needs.


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## robostudent5000

Beacon of Light said:


> Pretty sure a H51 with a lithium 14500 would do the trick and if not that then possibly their upcoming H-502 which will be even better than the previous H51. Win/win here as you're using less batterys (less waste to the environment if you are still using primaries and not NiMH recharageables) and getting the same performance with a 4-5x increase in efficiency and a lighter more streamlined (comfortable) headlamp. You'll thank me later.


 
i did a quick search on the H502, and isn't it supposed to be a flood only headlamp, thereby not meeting my requirement for throw? and doesn't a 14500 lack the capacity to run for more than a couple hours at 350 mA, which is about the current you need to run a xpg or an xml at 130 lumen otf, thereby causing the H51 to not meet my requirement for runtime? i got curious, so i checked the Zebralight website, and they explicitly state that the H51 does not support 14500's, so you can't even use them. also, some additional searching revealed that the H51 has a reflector that is too small and shallow to throw more than a couple hundred feet even on max.

other than running on AA batteries, neither of those Zebralights seem to be able to do anything that i need it to do. in fact, some more additional searching reveals that Zebralight does not currently and will not in the near future make a headlamp that meets my needs.

meanwhile, the Fenix HP11 meets all my requirements. and does it now.


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## subwoofer

Cyamn down, cyamn down..... (mock Liverpudlian accent - might not make sense to US based CPFers)

Anyway, I think that we have to stop the 'discussion' at this point.

My comments would be that if your requirements are small, light-weight and single cell (but limited output and runtime) then Zebralight are excellent, if you need higher output for longer periods and the runtime only a multi-cell light can give, then headlights like the HP11 are excellent.

Beacon_of_light - you won't win the argument that zebralight is the answer to everyone's needs - it isn't.


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## robostudent5000

subwoofer said:


> Cyamn down, cyamn down..... (mock Liverpudlian accent - might not make sense to US based CPFers)


 
calming down.


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## degarb

If you have followed cpf, there is a HUGE following for zebralight. However, they may work for diffuse workers like electrical, but not for other tasks.

I have come to realize, differing formats of lights serve different needs in one's life. Cheap single AA 4 lumen led headlamps at Home Depot are great for bedside and kids. Single high power AA's are great for pocket. 4 AA (HP11) are great for everyday work. While on huge jobs, external packs work best (easier to charge but lack daily portability ease.) Wrist lights are better than headlamps at patching, and useful for throw and peripheral vision to avoid tripping. I haven't found a use yet for a flashlight yet, but this is just me--I won't be jumping into a flashlight review extolling virtues of the headlamp over a flashlight. 

[Yes, you need LOTS of throw for painting and dry walling. Google lighting in profile to see texture. Painting, seeing dust at 12-25 foot distance is very important. When rolling, throw is very important. Painters often get beatup for 1/2 grain of rice skips. Importantly: Throw = runtime, provided you can dial down. If, with a thrower, you can dial down to 50 milliamps and see detail, then you got a more useful light. I hate to say it, but you almost need a lux per watt rating on the lights.]


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## uk_caver

subwoofer said:


> Cyamn down, cyamn down..... (mock Liverpudlian accent - might not make sense to US based CPFers)


I can see the shellsuit and curly hair as clear as day.


subwoofer said:


> My comments would be that if your requirements are small, light-weight and single cell (but limited output and runtime) then Zebralight are excellent, if you need higher output for longer periods and the runtime only a multi-cell light can give, then headlights like the HP11 are excellent.


I'd second that.
One of my headlights is a Zebralight. (and I don't mean that in a 'one of my friends is...' kind of way).
Every light has its place, but my favourite and most-used light is my largest one (roughly Petzl Zoom size, and a touch heavier), and my next-most-used one is a 3xAA with back-mounted battery box.

The favourite isn't light, but I can find it with closed eyes even in a disordered tent or stuffed inside a bag, put it on with one hand, use it for reading in a tent /or/ seeing things far away, I get ages between battery changes, and it shares power options with my caving lamp. Which is nice.

Excellent review - if I didn't have the niche already covered sufficiently for my needs, I'd certainly be considering a HP11.


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## degarb

uk_caver;3737715
Excellent review - if I didn't have the niche already covered sufficiently for my needs said:


> Got my hp11 ordered and in the air. I finally felt I hadn't upgraded recently enough. I did just make a xpe r2 fl into a hl. I will need to see lux at 133 to determine if it is suitable for me.
> 
> I really would like to see a xml u3 bin, with some throw (possibly dedomed). But I am guessing 3 years will pass before this is offered.


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## uk_caver

degarb said:


> I really would like to see a xml u3 bin, with some throw (possibly dedomed). But I am guessing 3 years will pass before this is offered.


 I wish Cree made an XM-L equivalent, but with a separately addressable inner core. It'd be great to have a headtorch with an electrically-controlled zoom for the spot beam, so you could light distant objects with a narrow beam, saving a lot of power/heat for a given intensity of illumination, but have a wide beam for closer work like trail following where less intensity would often be needed, without the complication and bulk of multiple LEDs/optics or mechanical zooming.
Though without a expected market of countless millions of devices, I guess that won't be likely to happen.


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## degarb

Fenix Headlamp Hp-11 review (r5) [One week ownership/ as a work hight detail light]

1. Most useful light ever made, in my book! (Good throw means even 55 lumen (24 hour) level rivals 100 lumen lights--making me rethink my confidence in other light makers' claims for lumens.
2. This light is a true revolution over 80-100 lumen lights. Makes the Remington 150 lumen lights look like penlight, even at equivalent drive levels.
3. The HP11 has the most useful, outstanding drive/runtime levels: reading (206h at 4 lumen); arm length detail work (24h at 55 lumen level) that outshines most 80 to 100 lumen level (again, rethink my confidence in other manufactures); 6 foot detail level of 130 lumens which is very bright (9 hour range) , and extreme thrower 277 lumen to impress the skeptics.
4. My Hp 11 came with a removable diffuser.
5. Incredible out the front lumens. Apparently, the HP11 achieves little lose, as compared with other lights, by using a smooth reflector and low reflection glass lens. 
6. Pretty neutral (Way warmer than Remington). (Great smooth reflector, nice hotspot and spill.)

Other notes: 
1. The 2011 Coleman Max 144 xp-e (r2?) is a tad warmer.
2. Perceptually, the 144 Coleman Max is near the perceived 133 HP11 output, by driving the Coleman at 320 milli-amps (An R2 should be a tad more luxy, so this makes sense). So, the hp11 doesn't totally trump the R2 144 Coleman (Provided the Coleman is modified with hacksaw/new power supply and variable resistor), but it does have better runtime, more consistent light, larger hot spot, better reflector, better efficiency. 
3. By the inherent HP11 battery pack design, it will be easy to build 2 dummy batteries with attached wires, for my tool belt 6 volt 4.5 amp hour AGM batteries on large jobs.


Cons:
1. Didn't ship with tracking! (20 days to reach me from Canada.)
2. Diffuser looks like it will break early, if used on a job site on first knock of head on something low [plank/bush]. But, this diffuser should protect the glass lens in book bag with other stuff.
3. Center strap is too short!!!! Most users will not realize this, and consider the HP11 uncomfortable. :-( This is easy to modify with some Walmart elastic, scissors and thread. Or Just use strap from another light. Lengthen the center strap, and it becomes nearly as comfortable/balances as the Remington (tad heavier.) or any 3 aaa hl.
4. The driver did crash two of the 4 AA cells after my first 1.5 hours of use. So, as very first my light with a fully regulated 4 cell driver, I am still evaluating to see how picky it will be on cell. {I have returned 2 AA [brick and mortar] lights where every 15 minutes I needed to change cells, since the driver was so picky.}

Conclusion:

Between the HP11 driver, the superior 4aa format (good comfort, superior power, attainable AA), and an xpg with efficiency that is fast approaching the magic number 150 lumen/watt, it appears the HP11 is clearly a big upgrade of my 3-4 cell 80-105 lumen lights. No more can a customer or worker brush off the lights as marginally useful, since the brightness now has a wow factor, with long run time in a convenient, comfortable form factor. I need three more HP11s, asap! But, just read about my dream emitter; the S2 xpg which reaches the my dream of 150 lumen/watt. So, I might wait for the s2+ bin, to more clearly surpass the 150 lumen/watt water mark. I realize the eye won't notice the difference, but every bit helps, and it is a matter of principle. And, after all this light proves that every bit does add up.


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## subwoofer

degarb said:


> Cons:
> 3. Center strap is too short!!!! Most users will not realize this, and consider the HP11 uncomfortable. :-( This is easy to modify with some Walmart elastic, scissors and thread. Or Just use strap from another light. Lengthen the center strap, and it becomes nearly as comfortable/balances as the Remington (tad heavier.) or any 3 aaa hl.
> 4. The driver did crash two of the 4 AA cells after my first 1.5 hours of use. So, as very first my light with a fully regulated 4 cell driver, I am still evaluating to see how picky it will be on cell. {I have returned 2 AA [brick and mortar] lights where every 15 minutes I needed to change cells, since the driver was so picky.}


 
It is a pity you didn't read the section in my review (post 1) called 'Putting it together'. Here I mention the top strap and the fact that all you need to do is reconfigure it. This entails simply slipping the strap through the angled slot in the plastic buckle and reattaching it in a different position and voilà the top strap is perfect without any extra elastic, sewing etc required. After doing this the top strap looks exactly as it does in the photo of the instructions.

As for your other con about the 'The driver did crash two of the 4 AA cells after my first 1.5 hours of use', what exactly do you mean about this. How could the batteries crash?

In my tests I used Eneloops, and ran it and ran it and ran it until the output was less than the low setting for at least 6 hours (as in 6 hours from when the output had dropped to a very low level) to see if the driver would cut off, but thankfully (so as not to be plunged into darkness) it just kept going with diminishing output. The Eneloops given a bit of recovery time actually managed a blast of turbo before dropping again. I got bored of abusing the eneloops which were fine and took a full charge immediately afterwards.

When using multi cell lights I always used matched sets which were charged at the same time and have had no problems at all with this light.


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## degarb

My center strap looks different than yours. I also after reading your sentence on center strap a dozen times, still have no idea what you are describing. Need a video or slide show, I guess.

What I mean crash, is I put 4 freshly charged batteries in: two eneloops and two 2300s. After two hours the 2300s were dead, while the eneloops continued. In the real world, with 100 batteries and 8 plus lamps running, matching batteries is not practical. etc. So, the fact you have had no problems with pickiness of cells, I find reassuring. (I still have only gone a max of 5 hours before topping off batteries.)


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## GulfCoastToad

Wow, great review. I didn't think I needed another headlamp until I read through your posts. Now I might have changed my mind. My current adventure light is a Princeton Tec Apex. It sounds like the Fenix HP11 will make my PT pee its pants.


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## DisrupTer911

Def think I'm gonna have to pick this up before my camping trip


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## degarb

Just bought three more. Got a little price break.. So much for waiting for the s2 bin. I figured, I pay now or if I wait for the xpg U2 bin, in other ways.


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## subwoofer

degarb said:


> Just bought three more. Got a little price break.. So much for waiting for the s2 bin. I figured, I pay now or if I wait for the xpg U2 bin, in other ways.


 
Before you alter your top strap, post a photo of it and I'll try to explain what I did. It shouldn't need to be altered, only change the position of the buckles.


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## degarb

subwoofer said:


> Before you alter your top strap, post a photo of it and I'll try to explain what I did. It shouldn't need to be altered, only change the position of the buckles.


 
Not sure if same as yours, but I reconfigured to make one long strap of elastic with two loops on end, looping each end back onto self. I also added reflective tape to back and sides of battery case since I was missing the Remington rear led, which is good for late night walks with family on the streets.

My three lights came in three days by priority mail, shipped from the NY warehouse. There is a lottery on color. (I hoped Cree has quashed this lottery in last 3 years, but apparently not.) None were horribly cold, but none were as warm as the first, only one close.

This is my first 4 aa regulated light. I have read reviews of the dx regulated lights (none with very good or useful runtimes), so the tail current reading should not have shocked me. I found the lower the voltage/more tired the cells the higher the current draw. This is especially true on the turbo setting, with as high as one amp for the 277 rating. I guess I expected a constant current over runtime, by simply lowering resistance. So tail cap reading will vary by voltage, but my first NiMH off charger were: 8ma, 99 ma, 266 ma, 777 ma. Fresh alkaline, a bit lower, especially on turbo.


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## subwoofer

degarb said:


> Not sure if same as yours, but I reconfigured to make one long strap of elastic with two loops on end, looping each end back onto self. I also added reflective tape to back and sides of battery case since I was missing the Remington rear led, which is good for late night walks with family on the streets.
> 
> My three lights came in three days by priority mail, shipped from the NY warehouse. There is a lottery on color. (I hoped Cree has quashed this lottery in last 3 years, but apparently not.) None were horribly cold, but none were as warm as the first, only one close.
> 
> This is my first 4 aa regulated light. I have read reviews of the dx regulated lights (none with very good or useful runtimes), so the tail current reading should not have shocked me. I found the lower the voltage/more tired the cells the higher the current draw. This is especially true on the turbo setting, with as high as one amp for the 277 rating. I guess I expected a constant current over runtime, by simply lowering resistance. So tail cap reading will vary by voltage, but my first NiMH off charger were: 8ma, 99 ma, 266 ma, 777 ma. Fresh alkaline, a bit lower, especially on turbo.



As far as the top strap goes, that sounds about right.

Your observation of the current draw is also accurate, on the basis that a regulated light is trying to output the same level regardless of the battery state. The driver will call upon the batteries to deliver the same power, and as you point out, as the batteries are used, their voltage drops. In order to achieve the same power output, with a lower voltage, the current must increase as Power = Voltage x Current.

The driver will draw power from the batteries up to the point they can no longer deliver the power level demanded, and then drop to the next regulated output.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the current that is regulated is the output current (and voltage) which is driving the LED, not the power supply current.


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## uk_caver

subwoofer said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the current that is regulated is the output current (and voltage) which is driving the LED, not the power supply current.


That's right - the LED current is what a regulated driver will try to keep constant.


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## DisrupTer911

Just got mine and man what a thrower.
on medium, high, and turbo it's got amazing throw when pointed straight out.

when aimed down, medium and high provide excellent flooded area as well for walking.
love it!
hate the headband that it doesn't have firmly holding plastic pieces and i need another cable clip lol


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## degarb

Small Velcro cord wraps work well (soft side out) as clips (twist tie, duct tape). I believe the cord has extra play by design. I know, from years of Walkman use, that too little play on a cord turn will break the wires quicker. I agree that the old telephone cord coil design that the Remington incorporated, would seem to be the best.

I bet the zebralight h600 will have 1/4th the lux of the hp11 at the comparable 7 hr runtime (a useful work day runtime). But I wonder if it would be practical or benificial to do the obvious: it would be cool to mount the zebra h600 to side of HP 11 for the view. Probably just kill the night vision with little benefit, but maybe not.


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## Therrin

I have to admit to not having read this entire thread, after I got about 5 posts in I realized the same issue that had existed with the HP10 and HP20 diffusers.

Frankly, that they suck, and that just by selling them you have to wonder exactly what Fenix was thinking.

That having been said, I found an excellent substitution. An excellent and very expensive substitution. 












Though, as mentioned in another thread, my first HP20 developed a wiring issue and had to be returned. My second HP20 also developed a wiring issue, and was immediately dismantled because I didn't care to wait for the 4 month turnaround time again. I'll be constructing a custom battery pack for it which will be back-of-helmet-mounted and should allay the problem.
The HP20 should never have left the design table with the weight of the battery pack, and the flimsy wire attaching to it. Even when run inside clothing, that wire will get caught on everything (besides that then you have to operate the controller through the clothing), and eventually it will break from strain inside the battery pack and stop working correctly.

I'm interested in trying the HP11. 

(my HP10 has just been ticking right along in the meantime with no issues, 16 months later)


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## degarb

Therrin, not enough info to reproduce your diffuser.

I found if I go to "walmrt's" pharmacy and buy their empty contact lens case with translucent caps, I can hot-glue/amazing-goop the edges a cap to elastic ($1, in fabric department) then tightly glued to the head the lights. When not in use, just flip the diffuser off to the side. This design seems to work very well on one of my lights; the contact lens case cap diameter seems to be perfect for most lights; and would work on hp11 in a pinch. I figure if this hp11 diffuser breaks off, I can reattach with this method, with added benefit of no elastic touching metal bezel. (Stock diffuser slightly insulates the warm metal, though only a potential problem with turbo mode.)

Other considerations for my diffuser recipe: often hard plastic glues best if primed-softened with super glue with amazing goop on top; if using a cap lid, use hollow side toward lens to avoid scratching lens.


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## Therrin

degarb said:


> Therrin, not enough info to reproduce your diffuser.



My bad! It's made by SureFire. It costs about $65. 

I got so tired of having the factory diffuser either fall open or spill light into my eyes, playing with magic markers and/or electrical tape, I finally just bought the expensive Surefire diffuser and have been absolutely happy with it. 
I realize most will find that not to be an ideal solution; it depends on your application and your pocketbook.


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## eart

$65 diffuser? That's harsh... especially if you're looking at HP11, which is there abouts in terms of cost.


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## degarb

I am still trying to get a handle on the best brand of batteries to use in this light. For my use, I require 8 to 10 hours of 133 lumen out put on one set of cells. So eneloop amateurs don't meet my specs. What I am finding though that since the regulator ups the current as voltage drops, I am not getting anything near the specified runtime (about 6.25 hours on sanyo 2700s with four cycles at the 133 lumen output), and packs are going out of regulation at 1.2 volts per cell with older cells crapping out around 2.8 hours at 133 lumens.

I cannot complain since when the hp11 looses the 133 level, it just goes to the 50 lumen level for next xx hours. Fortunately, the unit throws great and has great out the front efficiency, so at the 50 lumen level rivals many lights at 80 to 100 lumens, and a worker still has plenty of light on the battery sipping medium for next few hours for extreme detail work up to 6 foot away.

I am wondering if I am not breaking in my 2700s properly by just hitting condition on the maha c204w. The hp11 target runtimes are perfect, and even when falling short (I prefer the 133 lumen level for 8 to 10 hours) the unit is still bright at the 50 lumen level. So, I can't complain. My eneloop xx batteries are in the mail. I am also pondering value of the Tenergy 2600s (worried they will be as crappy as kodak or the energizer 2500s and 2450s.) the accuevolution 2200 lsds. If none of the battery brands meet my specs, I may just go 1500 cycle eneloops and demand a 5 hour battery swap and buy more charging bays--which will cost over time and frustration.


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## subwoofer

degarb said:


> I am still trying to get a handle on the best brand of batteries to use in this light. For my use, I require 8 to 10 hours of 133 lumen out put on one set of cells. So eneloop amateurs don't meet my specs. What I am finding though that since the regulator ups the current as voltage drops, I am not getting anything near the specified runtime (about 6.25 hours on sanyo 2700s with four cycles at the 133 lumen output), and packs are going out of regulation at 1.2 volts per cell with older cells crapping out around 2.8 hours at 133 lumens.
> 
> I cannot complain since when the hp11 looses the 133 level, it just goes to the 50 lumen level for next xx hours. Fortunately, the unit throws great and has great out the front efficiency, so at the 50 lumen level rivals many lights at 80 to 100 lumens, and a worker still has plenty of light on the battery sipping medium for next few hours for extreme detail work up to 6 foot away.
> 
> I am wondering if I am not breaking in my 2700s properly by just hitting condition on the maha c204w. The hp11 target runtimes are perfect, and even when falling short (I prefer the 133 lumen level for 8 to 10 hours) the unit is still bright at the 50 lumen level. So, I can't complain. My eneloop xx batteries are in the mail. I am also pondering value of the Tenergy 2600s (worried they will be as crappy as kodak or the energizer 2500s and 2450s.) the accuevolution 2200 lsds. If none of the battery brands meet my specs, I may just go 1500 cycle eneloops and demand a 5 hour battery swap and buy more charging bays--which will cost over time and frustration.



Not sure if it was mentioned already in this thread or if it was in another Fenix light thread, but before you go any further quoting Fenix's stated runtimes, be aware that these are ANSI standard runtimes. This means that the quoted runtime goes on until the light output drops to 10% YES 10% of the starting output. If Fenix state 6hrs at the 133lm output level, this means that at 6hrs, the output will be 13.3lm, not 133lm.

There is currently no standard that indicates the runtime at any particular regulated output level.

You need to understand this clearly as you will never achieve runtimes that maintain the listed output level for the entire time stated.


----------



## degarb

subwoofer said:


> Not sure if it was mentioned already in this thread or if it was in another Fenix light thread, but before you go any further quoting Fenix's stated runtimes, be aware that these are ANSI standard runtimes. This means that the quoted runtime goes on until the light output drops to 10% YES 10% of the starting output. If Fenix state 6hrs at the 133lm output level, this means that at 6hrs, the output will be 13.3lm, not 133lm.
> 
> There is currently no standard that indicates the runtime at any particular regulated output level.
> 
> You need to understand this clearly as you will never achieve runtimes that maintain the listed output level for the entire time stated.



Fortunately, Fenix here has a much better correlation to stated runtime and actual than just some vague 10%: I am probably will be getting-once batteries are broken in- close to 7 hours of 133 lumens before it only puts out 50 lumens. Why wouldn't they just spec something like, 7 hours (with 2500's) regulated to 133 lumens then 3 hours unregulated?


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## subwoofer

degarb said:


> Fortunately, Fenix here has a much better correlation to stated runtime and actual than just some vague 10%: I am probably will be getting-once batteries are broken in- close to 7 hours of 133 lumens before it only puts out 50 lumens. Why wouldn't they just spec something like, 7 hours (with 2500's) regulated to 133 lumens then 3 hours unregulated?



'Fenix here'?

Fenix is Fenix and their products state ANSI runtimes (you can google this). ANSI runtimes are quite clear and 10% is not a vague cut-off point, but is the one decided on by the group of companies which set up the ANSI standard.

Roughly it involves measuring the starting output 10s after turning the light on to allow the output to stabilise and then timing it until the output falls to exactly 10% of the starting output.

All Fenix lights state the same runtimes, and all runtimes quoted are ANSI.

Good luck with getting 100% output for the same time as the ANSI runtime quoted. If you have some uber-special batteries you might just manage it. Fenix generally use the largest capacity fully charged batteries they can for the ANSI tests. Each product information page on Fenix's website usually mentions what capacity batteries were used for the ANSI test.


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## Therrin

I'm in the middle of modding my HP20 with a custom battery pack I'm building. 

If you have specific needs which do not fit within the norms currently available with a headlamp product, I suggest you start building your own battery packs to attain the runtime that you require. =)


Subwoofer: Yes, it's pretty damn expensive for a diffuser. But when you consider the absolute crap-quality of the current Fenix diffusers, you only have so many options. One is to rubber-band a piece of waxed paper across the front. That would be sufficiently cheap. 

I like the Surefire diffuser because it fits on 3 of my lights, and it's bomb-proof. The diffusion lens stows neatly out of the way when you don't need it, and is very simple to click into place when you want it. The activities I do involve being underground for large periods of time. I enjoy the ease of using the diffuser, but when I'm 765' down a hole, the last thing I want to be worrying about is my diffuser on my light. oo: So for me it's worth it.

If Fenix could manage to put out a slip-on diffuser that didn't totally suck, it'd be the best of both worlds, but for some reason they haven't quite figured that out yet.

I think I'll pick up an HP11 and see how I like it.


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## degarb

With the hp11, one could easily make two dummy batteries connected to positive and negative. The easiest cheapest external battery is a 6 dollar 6v 4.5 amp-hour agm from batteriesasap.com or the like. You would need to be sure not to accidentally reverse connect. 

My last night runtime test of the hp 11 was about 8 to 8.5 hours on the 133 lumen setting with Sanyo 2700's. (After this, still at bright 50 lumen setting, when I didn't continue to see how long this setting would last.) About 6th cycle of these cells, this time topping off with Titanium smart charger, checking each cell voltage individually. For us, 8 hours works, not 6 hours. I also removed the diffuser to optimal heat dissipation this time.


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## waddup

id only ever use a diffuser on close- closer work, on a much lower level, trying to beam 150 lumens thru anything without that 'thing' lighting up is a little optimistic, 

'turbo mode' is for long range = no diffuser.

imo.


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## peterharvey73

Has anyone noticed how the HP11 on 4x Eneloops, the brightness falls as the battery capacity diminishes? 
Thus, eventually only the first three levels of brightness work; then with further use, only the first two levels of brightness works.
It behaves like a conventional LED flashlight powered by disposable CR123's?
This is different to conventional LED flashlights powered by rechargeable protected 16340's and 18650's where the brightness is at maximum the whole time, until the very end when the battery is flat and cuts out with no warning at all???
Thus the Eneloop chemistry is similar to disposable primary CR123 chemistry and performance?
I wish the HP11 stayed at maximum brightness the whole time - until it gets flat...


----------



## robostudent5000

peterharvey73 said:


> Has anyone noticed how the HP11 on 4x Eneloops, the brightness falls as the battery capacity diminishes?
> Thus, eventually only the first three levels of brightness work; then with further use, only the first two levels of brightness works.
> It behaves like a conventional LED flashlight powered by disposable CR123's?
> This is different to conventional LED flashlights powered by rechargeable protected 16340's and 18650's where the brightness is at maximum the whole time, until the very end when the battery is flat and cuts out with no warning at all???
> Thus the Eneloop chemistry is similar to disposable primary CR123 chemistry and performance?
> I wish the HP11 stayed at maximum brightness the whole time - until it gets flat...



protected Li-ion cells cutoff suddenly because the protection circuits cut them off once they get to a certain voltage. Eneloops and lithium primaries don't share the same chemistry but are similar in that neither have nor need protection circuits. you can safely drain them down farther than you can a Li-ion, so you can actually get more out of their capacity than you can with a protected Li-ion. if Eneloops and lithium primaries behaved like protected Li-ion's, instead of dropping down into the lower levels once almost drained they would just cutoff at that point and rob you of the extra run time you get on the lower levels.


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## Deanz69

One of the best reviews so far - I have a HL 20 and will definitely get the HP 11 after reading your review.....:twothumbs


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## degarb

peterharvey73 said:


> Has anyone noticed how the HP11 on 4x Eneloops, the brightness falls as the battery capacity diminishes?
> Thus, eventually only the first three levels of brightness work; then with further use, only the first two levels of brightness works.
> It behaves like a conventional LED flashlight powered by disposable CR123's?
> This is different to conventional LED flashlights powered by rechargeable protected 16340's and 18650's where the brightness is at maximum the whole time, until the very end when the battery is flat and cuts out with no warning at all???
> Thus the Eneloop chemistry is similar to disposable primary CR123 chemistry and performance?
> I wish the HP11 stayed at maximum brightness the whole time - until it gets flat...



I notice no dimming and I have compared since I have four of these. Just loss of levels. The turbo sucks almost an amp, and so is pretty useless. I cant mow my lawn in two hours. The 133 level, the high, is fine, and dropping down to mid at 8 hours is far preferable than getting that last half hour of light. The 50 lumen level is pretty bright and a good fall back. 

Most people hate lights that just cut off. There even is a certain liability to this. 

I got some eneloop xx 2500s, I should try runtime on turbo to see if I get better results than with the 2700s. With regular batteries, turbo sometime kills the pack in what seems 20 minutes. I can see your gripe, if you bought the light to run it for nearly four hours on turbo. I have no idea the real run time for turbo with good cells, without testing fully. I bet about 2.3 hours at best. Then again, maybe a lot less.


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## subwoofer

peterharvey73 said:


> Has anyone noticed how the HP11 on 4x Eneloops, the brightness falls as the battery capacity diminishes?
> Thus, eventually only the first three levels of brightness work; then with further use, only the first two levels of brightness works.
> It behaves like a conventional LED flashlight powered by disposable CR123's?
> This is different to conventional LED flashlights powered by rechargeable protected 16340's and 18650's where the brightness is at maximum the whole time, until the very end when the battery is flat and cuts out with no warning at all???
> Thus the Eneloop chemistry is similar to disposable primary CR123 chemistry and performance?
> I wish the HP11 stayed at maximum brightness the whole time - until it gets flat...



In post 2 of this thread I made that observation. Personally I am moving away from li-ion powered lights, and certainly wouldn't use these in critical applications.

I don't think we have reached the point that RCR123s are by any means 'conventional', so would actually argue that alkaline and ni-mh powered lights are far more conventional.

My preference for standard AA powered light (what I would call conventional) is that the power source is proven, easily available, safe and does not rely on protection circuits which sudden cut all power. The massive advantage of this is that lights powered with these batteries do fade out and give you plenty of warning that the batteries need to be replaced.

The HP11 with its big battery pack is going to be used when you need long runtimes and don't want to be unexpectedly plunged into darkness.

The loss of higher output levels and then finally a gradual fading out of the lowest level is the safest mode of failure and one of the HP11's good features.


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## peterharvey73

Thanks for the reply everyone.
Like you all say, I guess gradually dimming is okay after all.
Next time I use the HP11, I will pay attention to how long it can stay on the Level 4 maximum turbo mode, before it starts to drop levels and dim.
The HP11 is still a fine light, and I would recommend it to anyone...


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## arizona1

Funny story involving HP11... The other day i went i a night hike with a few friends of mine, and when we got back to the car we found out that the last headlight on my friends PT Cruiser went out. So on the 5 mile drive back (on country roads) i had my hand out the window using the HP11 as an improvised headlight, needless to say it worked very well and got us back.


----------



## leeholaaho

Is the headband big enough to fit over a cap such as the one in the link

http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/...ID=589854&cm_mmc=Google_Feed-_-5-_-69-_-MP569

TIA for any reply


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## degarb

arizona1 said:


> Funny story involving HP11... The other day i went i a night hike with a few friends of mine, and when we got back to the car we found out that the last headlight on my friends PT Cruiser went out. So on the 5 mile drive back (on country roads) i had my hand out the window using the HP11 as an improvised headlight, needless to say it worked very well and got us back.



This is a situation where the bra light would have come in handy.


----------



## Therrin

subwoofer said:


> In post 2 of this thread I made that observation. Personally I am moving away from li-ion powered lights, and certainly wouldn't use these in critical applications.
> 
> I don't think we have reached the point that RCR123s are by any means 'conventional', so would actually argue that alkaline and ni-mh powered lights are far more conventional.
> 
> My preference for standard AA powered light (what I would call conventional) is that the power source is proven, easily available, safe and does not rely on protection circuits which sudden cut all power. The massive advantage of this is that lights powered with these batteries do fade out and give you plenty of warning that the batteries need to be replaced.
> 
> The HP11 with its big battery pack is going to be used when you need long runtimes and don't want to be unexpectedly plunged into darkness.
> 
> The loss of higher output levels and then finally a gradual fading out of the lowest level is the safest mode of failure and one of the HP11's good features.



You guys think in different terms than those of us who spend 6 to 14 hours underground on a regular basis.

I'll simply put a long-run-time-low-output headlamp on my helmet in addition to my primary headlamp & primary handheld, which gives out plenty of light to see and change batteries by (though is crappy for actual exploration purposes underground). That way when my other lights "cut out" because of their regulation, I can still easily swap batteries on them.

The point is that when there is someone who uses their lights *regularly* and up to full capacity all the time, running rechargeable's is significantly cheaper in the long run than running primaries.

Sure, if you only use it now and then, or once a month, run primaries. But if you're one of those folks who uses your light ALL THE TIME (literally), using rechargeables is pretty much the only way to go. Lithium ion cells have a greater power density than almost anything else on the market right now. So while RCR123's and 18650's may not be "mainstream", that's only because "mainstream" users usually aren't "all-the-time" users of their lights. They use them occasionally. All-the-time users don't want to go through 15 primary cell batteries everytime they do a "run" (underground, aboveground or otherwise). And if you do one trip a month, and you're going through 45 primary cells per trip, it gets pretty expensive. (trust me)


----------



## DisrupTer911

Out of curiosity, what sort of exploration are you doing that you're using 45 cells in one trip?

I'd suspect most caving trips if that's what you're doing would be 1-2 days as I think it would be difficult to carry enough supplies into a cave to last a week, especially if you're crawling through tight spots.


----------



## subwoofer

Therrin said:


> You guys think in different terms than those of us who spend 6 to 14 hours underground on a regular basis.
> 
> I'll simply put a long-run-time-low-output headlamp on my helmet in addition to my primary headlamp & primary handheld, which gives out plenty of light to see and change batteries by (though is crappy for actual exploration purposes underground). That way when my other lights "cut out" because of their regulation, I can still easily swap batteries on them.
> 
> The point is that when there is someone who uses their lights *regularly* and up to full capacity all the time, running rechargeable's is significantly cheaper in the long run than running primaries.
> 
> Sure, if you only use it now and then, or once a month, run primaries. But if you're one of those folks who uses your light ALL THE TIME (literally), using rechargeables is pretty much the only way to go. Lithium ion cells have a greater power density than almost anything else on the market right now. So while RCR123's and 18650's may not be "mainstream", that's only because "mainstream" users usually aren't "all-the-time" users of their lights. They use them occasionally. All-the-time users don't want to go through 15 primary cell batteries everytime they do a "run" (underground, aboveground or otherwise). And if you do one trip a month, and you're going through 45 primary cells per trip, it gets pretty expensive. (trust me)



I think you missed my point - AA power doesn't equate to primaries, only a chemistry which gives a predictable performance.

I only use rechargeable batteries, mainly eneloops, and also use RCR123s and 18650s, but still prefer AAs, however this is not the thread to debate the pros and cons of different power sources as it is a review thread and we should stick to the topic of the HP11 and its performance.

'Mainstream' all depends on your context and in a general context RCR123s and 18650 are not 'mainstream', however in certain activities they now probably are.


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## Bolster

DisrupTer911 said:


> Out of curiosity, what sort of exploration are you doing that you're using 45 cells in one trip?



Yes, please let us know that at least, before returning to topic. Very curious what you're doing underground for that long! You're not a vampire are you?


----------



## Nyctophiliac

Hi Sub,

been lurking on this thread for a while - finally today purchased the HP11 for myself, due in no small way by your thorough review and the responses to those who have posted in reply.

No real need for a headlamp in the normal course of events in my life. For my biking I use a TK21 on my helmet and it serves me well on and off road (I cycle for an hour or so every night, even when wet - the weather not me!!!) and as you have said, no obvious way to attach this HP11 to a bike helmet.

But I am going to spend Saturday underground this weekend - a mining trip no less - and the thought of having a new light with guilt free reasons cannot be resisted, so HP11 it is. I'll let you know how I get on.

BTW - I have fixed the glare from the diffuser by using a 5mm thin strip of black Gaffer(Duck) tape around the edge and folded over the diffuser disc - the tape is white on the adhesive side so minimising light loss - and totally opaque - not too easy to notice even when light is off. 

I'm taking the HP11 as my helmet light, a Zebra H31 as backup headlamp, my TK45 as area light and various other AA style lights as redundant backups and 'New York Reloads'.

I'm also supplying backups for three others in the party - The Fenix L2D and Quark 2AA lights that have been keeping my drawer full are finally going to have a decent purpose (not to mention 'Descent' !!!!) And I'm looking forward to letting them carry the spare cells too!

Recharge city around here until Saturday!

If you don't hear from me here, then in my opinion the light is rubbish!

_~to be continued~


_


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## degarb

Nyctophiliac said:


> BTW - I have fixed the glare from the diffuser by using a 5mm thin strip of black Gaffer(Duck) tape around the edge and folded over the diffuser disc - the tape is white on the adhesive side so minimising light loss - and totally opaque - not too easy to notice even when light is off. [/I]


Back in 2007, I bought a box of industrial velcro. Still in basement, not all used up by far. So, I simply cut a inch off and stuck it on the diffuser (caulked the explosed sticky part) with about 6 mm sticking out. Looks like a factory fix to the glare.This is something I have had to do with all brands of lights I have that come with diffusers. Though, I usually just wear the lights on top of a baseball cap-so glare is impossible.


----------



## Bolster

Nyctophiliac said:


> If you don't hear from me here, then in my opinion the light is rubbish!



That may be the most clever and well written post I've read on CPF--!


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## SkyPup

Thanks for this great review, I purchased three of them and they also make great Christmas presents!!


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## subwoofer

Nyctophiliac said:


> Hi Sub,
> 
> been lurking on this thread for a while - finally today purchased the HP11 for myself, due in no small way by your thorough review and the responses to those who have posted in reply.
> 
> No real need for a headlamp in the normal course of events in my life. For my biking I use a TK21 on my helmet and it serves me well on and off road (I cycle for an hour or so every night, even when wet - the weather not me!!!) and as you have said, no obvious way to attach this HP11 to a bike helmet.
> 
> But I am going to spend Saturday underground this weekend - a mining trip no less - and the thought of having a new light with guilt free reasons cannot be resisted, so HP11 it is. I'll let you know how I get on.
> 
> BTW - I have fixed the glare from the diffuser by using a 5mm thin strip of black Gaffer(Duck) tape around the edge and folded over the diffuser disc - the tape is white on the adhesive side so minimising light loss - and totally opaque - not too easy to notice even when light is off.
> 
> I'm taking the HP11 as my helmet light, a Zebra H31 as backup headlamp, my TK45 as area light and various other AA style lights as redundant backups and 'New York Reloads'.
> 
> I'm also supplying backups for three others in the party - The Fenix L2D and Quark 2AA lights that have been keeping my drawer full are finally going to have a decent purpose (not to mention 'Descent' !!!!) And I'm looking forward to letting them carry the spare cells too!
> 
> Recharge city around here until Saturday!
> 
> If you don't hear from me here, then in my opinion the light is rubbish!
> 
> _~to be continued~
> 
> 
> _



Nycto

Didn't you get a closer look at it at the last meetup? It was the one I was strobing in the car when we were waiting for the take-away.

The diffuser fix sounds good, but I prefer more permanent fixes to gaffer tape (though some people seem to consider it a permanent fix).

Isn't the TK21 a bit big to helmet mount? I have a Quark mounted on my cycling helmet but as a single AA light is nice and lightweight. My TK21 is mounted on the bike itself.

I think you'll do well with the HP11, and it sounds like an interesting trip. Will you take a camera and tripod to take a few photos?

Definitely hoping you don't think the light is rubbish ;-)


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## Nyctophiliac

No camera - we're going in with microphones and recorders. But I might snap a couple with my phone.

Yeah - good though the gaffer tape fix is - it is temporary - if I have time I'll try to figure out a better solution - did you try the tipp-ex and marker solution? I did wonder if glow paint on the edges would be good, maybe try it later.

The TK21 is held in two of the velcro lockblock mounts on my helmet, one in front of the other. With London traffic being as lethal as it is, I find the weight is easily borne against the benefits of getting a drivers full attention just as they are about to pull out in front of you!


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## subwoofer

Nyctophiliac said:


> No camera - we're going in with microphones and recorders. But I might snap a couple with my phone.
> 
> Yeah - good though the gaffer tape fix is - it is temporary - if I have time I'll try to figure out a better solution - did you try the tipp-ex and marker solution? I did wonder if glow paint on the edges would be good, maybe try it later.
> 
> The TK21 is held in two of the velcro lockblock mounts on my helmet, one in front of the other. With London traffic being as lethal as it is, I find the weight is easily borne against the benefits of getting a drivers full attention just as they are about to pull out in front of you!



I did try the tipp-ex and black marker, but found that the light still leaked at the point where the diffuser and black plastic mount meet. This was no good.

What worries me is if you did come off your bike; having a large metal object attached to your helmet could cause all sorts of nasty problems. Motorcyclists who used to use the rubber sucktion fitted animal ears, found that even those made injury worse in accidents. The helmet should really not have anything attached and if anything it should be as small as possible; bike mount would be much better. Be careful out there.


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## Nyctophiliac

subwoofer said:


> What worries me is if you did come off your bike; having a large metal object attached to your helmet could cause all sorts of nasty problems. Motorcyclists who used to use the rubber sucktion fitted animal ears, found that even those made injury worse in accidents. The helmet should really not have anything attached and if anything it should be as small as possible;



Strangely, the caving helmets all say that attaching lights to the helmets reduces their ability to protect your head - probably from the same reasoning. Still, I have never seen a caver without a fairly bulky light clipped onto the helmet. Right above the frontal lobes too!

I know that I have avoided accidents simply by turning my head in the direction of the car/taxi/lorry/bus that is about to cut me up, and therefore shining my light directly at them - never for long I hasten to add. I don't need to dazzle, just that they never seem to notice me with just lights on the handlebars. But I agree, the safety of the helmet is compromised. I could always stay safe at home ;-)

As for the HP11 - I think some thin card glued to the barrel of the diffuser, so that it overlaps with it when closed, would be best - no glare and no gaps. But leaving enough purchase to flip up the filter when not needed.

I do like the use of the Surefire pop up diffuser, but I haven't got one yet.

cheers.


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## Nyctophiliac

I would like to cast my vote in favour of this light.

Five hours underground with it as my primary headlamp (on a helmet, natch) and constant use has confirmed its usefulness and reliability. For the most part the lamp was on in medium mode - only going to a higher mode for long distance illumination. (People tend not to like it if you dazzle them when down a mine!)

The headstrap is of sufficient size to go around the rim of the caving helmet and a couple of pieces of gaffer tape ensured that it wouldn't come off in extreme circumstances. The diffuser was used for most of the time and only raised for long distance viewing - I didn't find a tunnel that the light could not illuminate to the end on turbo. 

Despite me bumping the light and it's batterypack on the roof many many times, the light functioned very well indeed. Most of the other cavers had Petzl Duo, Raptor or Stenlight lamps, but were impressed with mine.

My backup lights were never used and I did not need to change the batteries at all. 

Very happy with this lamp and thanks to this review that I went for it.

Cheers Subwoofer, now to figure out how I attach it to my cycle helmet!

Just a couple of pics so far:









Showing how my tape anti glare fix works - not too pretty, but functional.




A diffused high was enough light for this shot.




Fellow flashaholic Remoteneeded proves he is unafraid of small spaces or mud!


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## GulfCoastToad

degarb said:


> Therrin, not enough info to reproduce your diffuser.
> 
> I found if I go to "walmrt's" pharmacy and buy their empty contact lens case with translucent caps, I can hot-glue/amazing-goop the edges a cap to elastic ($1, in fabric department) then tightly glued to the head the lights. When not in use, just flip the diffuser off to the side. This design seems to work very well on one of my lights; the contact lens case cap diameter seems to be perfect for most lights; and would work on hp11 in a pinch. I figure if this hp11 diffuser breaks off, I can reattach with this method, with added benefit of no elastic touching metal bezel. (Stock diffuser slightly insulates the warm metal, though only a potential problem with turbo mode.).



Can you post some pics of this mod?


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## Kitchen Panda

My big Christmas treat this year was an HP11 in yellow (thanks to my very thoughtful wife picking up on 2 months of hints, including a shortcut to the Fenix site on her desktop). Apart from household use, I plan to take this headlamp with me on my occasional site visits to hydro power plants and industrial sites (mostly I'm deskbound, but a couple of times a year I get out into the real world).


I failed the top strap IQ test, but at least I knew it was a test. The owner's manual does show the strap correctly assembled, but I guess I've gotten used to hand-holding consumer instruction manuals. A little Googling was helpful to figure out the top strap. I was pleased to find the straps allow the unit to be attached to a hard hat. Since if I drop a hard hat it may float down river for days, I will probably attach the lamp and hat with some kind of lanyard to prevent loss if I nod my head while looking over a tailrace handrail. I can pull my toque down over the battery box to help keep it warm, thoguh I suspect several hours in cold weather will still freeze the batteries. The battery cord is too short to tuck the box into a parka pocket. 

One problem in the review seems to have been fixed. My lamp, serial number F45RB100731, was packed with a different diffuser - the clear lens drops into an opaque rim, and there's a tab at the 7 o'clock position (with hinge at 12:00) to flip up the diffuser. This eliminates the black marker/tape treatment others had to use to get rid of glare. The tab catches enough light that you can see if you've left the lamp on. 

I've never owned a headlamp before, and now I wonder why. It's been terribly convenient around the house as I familiarize myself with the unit (I'm not playing, I'm training!). Though minor household work like stacking folding chairs or making the bed aren't much of a workout for the lamp, it is surprisingly comfortable to wear for hours at a time. It did get used for a semi-serious job when I was fixing some lamp sockets at my mother-in-law's house. One thing I really appreciate is that the light comes from between your eyes, making easy to see down deep holes (like lamp sockets). I was startled one evening to realize I could effortlessly see down into the back of the subwoofer speaker port while sitting on the couch. It was also useful for cleaning up Christmas toys that had rolled under various furniture. 

Low-low (4 lumens) is quite enough for navigating around furniture or reading a Kobo (it was a good Christmas for gadgets). The 50 lumen setting is a lot of light and I like that the lamp should run for 20 hours at this level...I don't have to worry about changing batteries every few hours. Turbo mode will be useful for big/deep/dark openings that I run across, and actually lasts a long time, though I haven't clocked it yet. I did check the current draw in the various modes and it looks consistent with the advertised time on 2500 mAh NiMh. I suppose to get the weight down I could put in L91 lithium/iron disulfide cells, but I bet I'd only need 3 to get the same run time (and roughly the same voltage) as four NiMh. 

Forgot to mention - beamwidth is about 7 degrees for the hot spot, according to tape measure, calculator and a little trig. The beam is much wider with the diffuser on, but I didn't measure it. 

The construction looks...adequate. There are lots of hard plastic pieces that obviously shouldn't be abused, such as the battery carrier and the headband clips. That's OK, though, I won't be using this unit for hard usage in a cave. However, I may get to go underground in a mine this year, and I'll be sure to bring this lamp with me if I do. 

Bill


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## LUPARA

THANKS for the great review! I actually ordered the HP11 before reading the review, after which I was very comforted at my choice of headlamp.
I almost bought a Zebralight H50, mainly because I like to keep things simple ... but I will get much more use out of the HP11 'cos it will be used outdoors where throw is a comfort 
when hiking through areas that tends to have feral dogs, wild bore etc., things that need to be seen at a distance; and it will also serve as my bike light.
I'm sure that we're about to see some cool newer designs and improvements that will make the HP11 look like a dinosaur in a couple of years!!


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## asval

Nice and informative thread 

Was considering buying the HP11, but the cost and lack of proper water protection turned me off it (IPX 6 :shakehead). Chose the *Klarus ST20* at $40 with IPX8 rating :naughty: and lighter weight at the cost of not being able to load 2 AA's . Sure the HP11 has 37 more lumens, but from looking at a couple of sites I don't think it'll make that much of a difference. 

Here are the sites I used for comparison if anyone is interested 

First one has the hp11 with a bunch of other lights which I used to the best of my abilities to find a comparable light to the Klarus ST20 since it only appears in the second link. 

http://fonarik.com/test/indexen.php?model=218&scene=1&mode=0

http://www.light-reviews.com/klarus_st20/

Granted the HP11 does include accessories (strap+ diffuser) for those extra $25, but for my application I don't think it'll make a difference since I just want to strap it to a bike helmet and use it for camping trips.

Hope I made the right choice :sweat:


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## Freely

Great thread! It was just what I needed to determine if the Fenix HP11 was the headlamp for my needs. I've decided to order one tonight. Thanks to the OP for his excellent review and continued follow ups. :thumbsup:


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## Freely

Kitchen Panda said:


> One problem in the review seems to have been fixed. My lamp, serial number F45RB100731, was packed with a different diffuser - the clear lens drops into an opaque rim, and there's a tab at the 7 o'clock position (with hinge at 12:00) to flip up the diffuser. This eliminates the black marker/tape treatment others had to use to get rid of glare. The tab catches enough light that you can see if you've left the lamp on.
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]






[/IMG]



[/IMG]



If you position the diffuser so that the tab is located at the 10 o'clock position and the hinge is located at the 2 o'clock position, then no light is visible to your eyes with the diffuser either open or closed. The diffuser reflection problem is fixed!


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## robostudent5000

nice! a functional diffuser. maybe fenix is finally getting it after all.

now only if they would get that a lot of headlamp users need a mode in the 10-20 lumen range.


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## subwoofer

That diffuser looks so much better. I'm glad Fenix have listened and updated the design.


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## vēer

Thanks for this awesome review, I was really tempted to pull the trigger on Hp11 about a week ago when it was on sale for 49$ but resisted since there is no real use for it at the moment and I dont have that much cash to keep it as a spare one 
Not yet...
Really love what Fenix did with this one, almost 4h on max from 4xAA batteries is really respectable, I wish they made something with 1xAA and ZebraLight functionality form factor wise and mode wise as well.


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## Kitchen Panda

Great pictures - thanks for illustrating the new diffuser. And turning the diffuser works well, too - one of those ideas that's obvious once someone else points it out to me. I wouldn't last five minutes in the wild. 

Bill


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## Freely

Kitchen Panda said:


> Great pictures - thanks for illustrating the new diffuser. And turning the diffuser works well, too - one of those ideas that's obvious once someone else points it out to me. I wouldn't last five minutes in the wild.
> 
> Bill



I was working in my attic with the diffuser hinge in the 12 o’clock position and noticed the glare from the tab in my peripheral vision. I just rotated the diffuser until the tab glare was gone. I found that if I rotated the diffuser too far then the glare from the hinge became visible. Through trial and error I eliminated all glare from the diffuser. The right spot turned out to be about 2 o’clock for the hinge and 10 o’clock for the tab. It’s clear that the diffuser was designed to rotate on the reflector barrel because it glides smoothly yet securely holds the position the operator selects. It’s only going to change position if the operator selects a change.

Thank you for your mention of the updated diffuser as I would not have purchased this headlamp with the old diffuser design. :thumbsup:


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## postieboy

I am sick to death of my original diffuser so this is good news. It is a great headlamp and IMHO only let down by the diffuser.

When open does the new diffuser still catch a bit of light? My original is fairly loose and never fully gets out of the beam and even half closes while walking catching the light. Does the newer one stay in place and not wobble about when open?

Has anybody ordered the updated diffuser from Fenix? I just checked their website and the product photo looks like the original. I would hate to order another diffuser and be stuck with another useless original one!


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## Kitchen Panda

postieboy said:


> I am sick to death of my original diffuser so this is good news. It is a great headlamp and IMHO only let down by the diffuser.
> 
> When open does the new diffuser still catch a bit of light? My original is fairly loose and never fully gets out of the beam and even half closes while walking catching the light. Does the newer one stay in place and not wobble about when open?
> 
> Has anybody ordered the updated diffuser from Fenix? I just checked their website and the product photo looks like the original. I would hate to order another diffuser and be stuck with another useless original one!



When I open the diffuser, there's a little shadow of the diffuser in the corona, but if you've got the hinge at the 10:00 position the shadow is up and out of the way. I haven't noticed mine tending to slip down, but I usually have the diffuser down. The headlamp has been only lightly used, though it does see regular morning use in making sure the socks match the shirt and pants. 

My HP11 was ordered before Christmas and came with the new diffuser. I ordered one for my brother in February and it, too, came with the new diffuser - the serial number was only about 20 higher than mine. However, these orders were from the Toronto outlet and I guess your odds of getting the old diffuser are different if you've got a longer pipeline (though Newcastle is actually 4000 km closer to China than is Winnipeg). 

Bill


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## Freely

postieboy said:


> I am sick to death of my original diffuser so this is good news. It is a great headlamp and IMHO only let down by the diffuser.
> 
> When open does the new diffuser still catch a bit of light? My original is fairly loose and never fully gets out of the beam and even half closes while walking catching the light. Does the newer one stay in place and not wobble about when open?
> 
> Has anybody ordered the updated diffuser from Fenix? I just checked their website and the product photo looks like the original. I would hate to order another diffuser and be stuck with another useless original one!



Yes, the diffuser does still catch a bit of light if it is not fully open. As you can see, the hinge is controlled by a plastic tension tang. Mine is still new so the tang works perfectly but as it ages, I'm sure the tension will be reduced and the diffuser will tend to not open fully or wobble. You can also rotate the diffuser on the reflector barrel to move the hinge to the 12 o'clock position when the diffuser is open to make sure it is out of your line of sight.

The difusser is listed as AD03, however, the pictures I've seen are of the old design. Brightguys has the device listed for three dollars. I would call them and describe the new design or show them these pictures to make sure you're ordering the correct device.


















Also to slow down excessive wear on the plastic hinge and tension tang, you could put a drop of silicone or plumber's grease on the friction point.


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## arizona1

has anyone been able to find a place to buy the new diffuser? All the places i looked have the old model.


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## arizona1

Okay so i have been emailing fenix in regards to this new diffuser. This is what they keep saying:
The photo posted on the CPF forum is not what Bright Guy has on his website. Please compare. Here's his:
http://brightguy.com/Fenix/Fenix+AD03+Diffuser+Lens
The CPF forum photo has a little protrusion of the lens. We have the current Fenix products (since we are the central US distributor) and ours is the same one that Bright Guy has, both without that little protrusion. So Fenix's current model is Bright Guys and ours.
I compared the diffuser lens in our new shipment of HP11s with the AD03 and they are exactly the same.

So, they make it seem like they dont even know about the new diffuser. How is this even possible if it has been shipped out with the HP11's. It clearly looks to be a new model of diffuser. Does anyone know anything? To the people that bought the HP11 with the new diffuser, where did u get it?


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## Freely

It’s pretty clear that whoever you spoke with is not knowledgeable about the Fenix product line. He kept referring to the protrusion on the diffuser lens as if that was the major difference. The real difference in the new model is that the lens is recessed in the black housing so that the edges don’t throw light off in all directions. You can clearly see in the brightguy photo that the old diffuser lens sits on top of the housing and is not recessed. The protrusion on the new model is there because with a recessed lens you need that protrusion to flip the lens up and away from the light. You’re wasting your time dealing with a person that is so unfamiliar with the product. That is why I think you need to call several vendors until you find someone that knows about the product.

I bought my HP 11 from a vendor on Ebay who had the lowest price ($59.90) and free shipping. I suppose it is possible that big vendors with huge inventories of Fenix products in stock may have older versions with the old diffuser. We know that the new diffusers exist.


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## florinache

Hello everybody!
My HP11 arrived last week (after 1 month of waiting). It has the new diffuser, which, indeed, does not stay fully open and catch a bit of light. The glare in the potrusion...a bit of black tape and it's done.
I removed the upper strap, the lamp stays well on my head without it. 

Here are some running times:

with 2700 GP NiMh: 6h30 on high (not turbo), + 5h on mid and after 11 more hours on low I got bored of waiting, it was still running 
with 2500 Eneloop XX: 8h55 on high + 20 more minutes the next day (I shut it down in the evening, after it switched automatically to mid mode) + 2h on mid + after 40 hours on low is still running. 

The Eneloops were brand new, after just one discharge, the GP's were after 20 or so discharges and right after a full discharge. 

I think it's a great lamp, well built and with a nice yellowish beam, good throw. 
The diffuser is ok, but I believe it won't last too much. 
The wire is a bit too long, even on my climbing helmet. It would have been nice to be coiled.
I'd love it to have one more level of lighing, at 20 lumens or so, for using it on familiar trails and around the camp, it would last much longer than the 55 lumens level, which I think is a bit too bright for that. 
Anyway, I love it, it's a good replacement for my Primelite Race.


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## degarb

I was getting similar 6.5 ish on high, until I got my smart charger that charged batteries singularly, not in pairs. Helped alot. I also bought new powerex 2700s and eneloop pro.


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## degarb

So far, I can add no breakage on diffusers since buying them last fall. 

I may have mentioned earlier: Modding them with a littie velcro (stiff and good stick) to make a lip to keep light out of my eyes, was a no brainer. Just take a little black paint to de-stick the adhesive side part that sticks out 3mm'ish.


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## mtang2

Just wanted to add that the Surefire FM34 diffuser which Therrin showed in Post #49 is now discontinued. I manage to get one on the cheap, and it's an awesome diffuser - sad to see it go. If you need a bomb-proof diffusion solution and you're lucky, you might find a dealer selling it for $40, probably more now.


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## arizona1

After multiple emails I got an answer from Fenix on the updated diffuser: 

Finally got an answer. Fenix has changed the diffuser so we should be getting those soon. You will be able to purchase the HP11 diffuser (in the updated style) separately. Spread the word.


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## Freely

arizona1 said:


> After multiple emails I got an answer from Fenix on the updated diffuser:
> 
> Finally got an answer. Fenix has changed the diffuser so we should be getting those soon. You will be able to purchase the HP11 diffuser (in the updated style) separately. Spread the word.



Have they released a new model number for the updated diffuser?


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## Therrin

DisrupTer911 said:


> Out of curiosity, what sort of exploration are you doing that you're using 45 cells in one trip?
> 
> I'd suspect most caving trips if that's what you're doing would be 1-2 days as I think it would be difficult to carry enough supplies into a cave to last a week, especially if you're crawling through tight spots.



Sorry about derailing the thread a tad bit earlier, but I noticed a few of you were asking about this. 
I do professional mineshaft exploration. Except I *used* to use AA/AAA lights. You strap 3 or 4 lights to a helmet and use one or two handhelds and you'll find yourself going through batteries like crazy. When you're a couple hours from anything in the middle of the desert, you gotta take everything you're using for the week. 

I don't have that problem anymore. I've switched to rechargeable everything, and alter my Fenix lights to run off rechargeable Li-ion packs in some cases and NiMh for others. Recharging cells off a hobby charger is pretty convenient.

I'm pretty happy with what I've seen of the HP11 after all the reviews about it on here. As I said earlier, my original HP10 is still going strong, so I know Fenix CAN make good headlamps. The HP20 was just not a good design. 

All in all the reviews on it here have been great and nicely detailed. Thanks for your guys' input.


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## florinache

Some more running tests:
With 2500mah Eneloops: 26h on mid level, plus 2 more hours dimming to low. After 5 more hours it stopped.
With 2700mah GP: 20h on mid level, and 5 hours dimming to low. After that the light was very dim. 
Both sets of batteries were charged at 200mah.


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## daniel10

Hello, Im thinking to buy one of these hadlamps. It is a good choice for mountain biking? My doubt is if it fit well on my helmet and if the cable length is long enough to carry the battery case on my backpack.

Regards from portugal
Daniel


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## DisrupTer911

The cables definitely not long enough to go into the backpack unless you extended it.

but I think it would be pretty good for riding. with the diffuser it's a nice wide even beam w/ just a little bit of spot still.


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## r. brown

Hi Sub, nice review. I am strongly considering this product but I was wondering what temp range the light was operating in. I am looking for something around 3000k-4000k. Does the HP11 fall in or around there? Thanks again for the through review.


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## subwoofer

r. brown said:


> Hi Sub, nice review. I am strongly considering this product but I was wondering what temp range the light was operating in. I am looking for something around 3000k-4000k. Does the HP11 fall in or around there? Thanks again for the through review.



No the HP11 will be cool white and I'm not aware of a warm version being available.

What would you be using it for?


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## kkobayak

Great review. I own an HP-10 and like it's weight and output it's used for work. I am always looking for the next light to buy and from the comments posted, have a few good leads. Thank you to everyone for the posts


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## Westi

subwoofer said:


> That diffuser looks so much better. I'm glad Fenix have listened and updated the design.



I am in the UK and want to buy this headtorch with the new diffuser. I was going to buy it from torchdirect.co.uk but wanted to check their stock didn't have the old troublesome diffuser. The company was unaware of the glare problem with this headtorch and contacted the Fenix distributor in the UK twice for me. The distributor in UK denies there is a problem and that the diffuser has ever been changed....Ahhhhhhh!!!

Help, anyone know where I can get the HP11 with new diffuser?

Brilliant review BTW, thank you.

Cheers.


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## kj2

Westi said:


> I am in the UK and want to buy this headtorch with the new diffuser. I was going to buy it from torchdirect.co.uk but wanted to check their stock didn't have the old troublesome diffuser. The company was unaware of the glare problem with this headtorch and contacted the Fenix distributor in the UK twice for me. The distributor in UK denies there is a problem and that the diffuser has ever been changed....Ahhhhhhh!!!
> 
> Help, anyone know where I can get the HP11 with new diffuser?
> 
> Brilliant review BTW, thank you.
> 
> Cheers.


you could try edenwebshops


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## Labrador72

Fenix might have not informed the distributor of the diffuser change and if the UK distributor only has HP11 with the old diffuser in stock I'd avoid all UK retailers. 

You can also try Flashlightshop.de: they are based in Germany but ship free EU-wide for orders over €49.
They carry all kind of spares for Fenix, by far the best stocked retailer/distributor I have ever found on the web. They are quick to ship but registered mail can vary and take up any time between 2 to 5 workdays within the EU, if there are public holidays even a couple of days longer.


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## Westi

I've picked up the Fenix HP11 for £37.50 from Edenwebshops.co.uk. Thanks for the tip,kj2. Money is tight, so I am prepared to DIY the diffuser and then pick up the new one in due course if necessary. 

Labrador, thanks for the tip on the Flashlightshop, it looks great for future buys.

I am pretty new to all of this stuff and would be really grateful to hear what rechargeable batteries people would recommend to go with the Fenix HP11?

Cheers


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## kj2

Westi said:


> I've picked up the Fenix HP11 for £37.50 from Edenwebshops.co.uk. Thanks for the tip,kj2. Money is tight, so I am prepared to DIY the diffuser and then pick up the new one in due course if necessary.
> 
> Labrador, thanks for the tip on the Flashlightshop, it looks great for future buys.
> 
> I am pretty new to all of this stuff and would be really grateful to hear what rechargeable batteries people would recommend to go with the Fenix HP11?
> 
> Cheers



I use Eneloops mostly in my flashlights. They are _low self-discharge_ (LSD), what keeps them longer ready for the job. I buy my Eneloops at eu dot nkon dot nl (replace the dot  )


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## Westi

I got the Fenix from Edenwebshops (thanks Kj2) and it arrived today with the new diffuser. It also came with 4 AA Energizer batteries; I am going to change them for Eneloops but still a nice touch for £37.50 (£40.50 with P&P).

With regard to the Eneloops, do I have to wait until they're totally flat until I totally recharge them? Sorry if this sounds a basic question, but I'm new to the proper use of batteries!!

Cheers


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## kj2

Westi said:


> I got the Fenix from Edenwebshops (thanks Kj2) and it arrived today with the new diffuser. It also came with 4 AA Energizer batteries; I am going to change them for Eneloops but still a nice touch for £37.50 (£40.50 with P&P).
> 
> With regard to the Eneloops, do I have to wait until they're totally flat until I totally recharge them? Sorry if this sounds a basic question, but I'm new to the proper use of batteries!!
> 
> Cheers



For what I know, it is not good for a battery to be "completely" empty. I charge my Eneloops when my light doesn't go into turbo-high-med mode.


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## Westi

kj2 said:


> For what I know, it is not good for a battery to be "completely" empty. I charge my Eneloops when my light doesn't go into turbo-high-med mode.




Brilliant. Thanks Kj2 for all your help.


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## kj2

Westi said:


> Brilliant. Thanks Kj2 for all your help.



That's why we're all here for


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