# Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.



## PoliceScannerMan

I have two Elzetta lights, a 3 cell and a 2 cell. They both have hi/low tail caps. The quality is up there, yes, with Surefire. 

The black matte finish (HA III) is of the nicest I've seen.

All Elzetta parts play Lego, they all run Malkoff modules. What's not to love?

I am mystified on why there is not much talk about Elzetta, there is no shortage of Malkoff discussion! 

Search Elzetta on YouTube. They hammer nails with them, shoot them with shotguns, and disassemble and reassemble UNDERWATER! 

I highly recommend these lights, especially if you already own Malkoff modules, you can buy Elzetta parts A la carte. Lol.

No man shall call himself a flashaholic if his collection sans a Elzetta. 

Here are a few pics of my beauties.


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## cummins4x4

Yes they are a sweet unit, they also make kickass weapon mounts. Definatly on my short list.


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## shane45_1911

Yep, no reason why I don't have one (or more) already.


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## Vortus

Were I to mount a light on a weapon, Elzetta would be my first choice.


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## purelite

I really like the looks of the hosts. They are built like tanks and are definitley as good or better really than Surefire hosts. The problem is they dont offer 18mm for rechargeables. At least thats my problem with them. I contacted Elzetta about it and asked if they planned on doing some hosts boed for 18mm. Short answer is "NOpe".
I still look at them all the time. and I guess maybe a 17mm might fit and that would be ok . But they should do a 4 cell body so you could use 2x17670 but i dont think thats coming either.

I guess you dont hear more praise because they are hosts utilizing Malkoff dropins and CPFrs seem to be more into the Light Engines and the ability to run rechargeables than the host itself? I like watching those vids too though. I wish Gene would do another dropin with a lens so it wouold be waterproof again


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## 2100

I really love their lights. But I am not getting one because i can't slot my 18650s in there.


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## blackbalsam

Always loving my Elzetta's...Very Tough and Beautiful...A must have with a Malkoff....Robert.


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## Diablo_331

I would buy one if they fit 18mm cells.


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## Vortus

I think I read it on Elzetta's website, but if not there then an article about them. They go with a primary only design for the very reason they are built as stout as they are. Work every time all the time when needed under constant abuse from weapon recoil. Primaries are more reliable and shock resistant to the abuse induced when firing a weapon. A very purpose built tool that happens to work well as a regular flashlight too.


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## seahunt

They are not difficult to bore to 18mm. Someone will turn up to professionally 
do the work. The Oveready triple will fit with just simple mod--think removing some
ot the LE's anodizing to provide a ground, and opening-up the body's throat so the
LE can sit further-in. Two 18350 IMR fit snugly (trim contact springs).
Worst part of Elzetta marketing was the pictures they chose to run, made the light look awkwardly out of balance (big head, small body). They are really quite compact, smaller than a 6P. Best HAlll ever, feels like cloth.
Gotta luv Legos!
Regards, Chuck


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## BIG45-70

My 2 cell elzetta is my favorite light. The m60 with the high low switch is perfect for camping. I run it with a 17670.


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## Slumber

I've been drooling over the 2 cell with the low profile bezel. Looks really tough. Im definitely getting one soon.


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## HotWire

I have 2 Elzetta lights with high/low clickies. They are both wonderful lights. Malkoff emitters. Built like a tank. They have an excellent record of reliability with law enforcement and the military. This is one tough light.


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## yellow

look nice, 
never heared of them

but this "built like a tank" - mentionned a few times here - thats the main neg. point.
A light has to be _light_, its already in its name.


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## davyro

I've been looking at Elzetta's & they certainly look like a great light to own,so i might just pull the trigger on one of these,
they have to earn a reputation for being as good as some of the well known lights before they become a house hold name.I've
got the feeling the Elzetta will do this over time but they are a quite new light & if i want one i'll have to buy from the U.S .:shrug:


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## twl

I have the ZFL-M60-CS3D, which is the 3-cell crenelated bezel hi/lo switch version.

IMO, it is the highest quality, best built host that you can buy, and it has the best feature set for a tactical light with all tailcap control, and a very predictable action GREAT momentary and nearly silent switch.
Best HAIII that I've ever seen, and is virtually a perfect match for a Colt AR15 anodizing.
Malkoff light engines with a perfect mated fit for the Malkoff drop-ins for best thermal management.
You can't beat this light for a 2-cell or 3-cell P60 host. It dominates the competition.

I love mine. If the word ever gets out about these Elzettas, then Surefire is gonna be in trouble.


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## BIGLOU

I have also been eye balling the ZFL-CS2D. Using the 17670 is OK for me but If I do get this light I will probably get it bored to 18650. Don't mean to go off topic but who offers the best deal on these and has anyone threw on a clip for EDCing? Thanks.


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## twl

BIGLOU said:


> I have also been eye balling the ZFL-CS2D. Using the 17670 is OK for me but If I do get this light I will probably get it bored to 18650. Don't mean to go off topic but who offers the best deal on these and has anyone threw on a clip for EDCing? Thanks.



Dark Sucks in the custom forum makes a nice titanium clip for $25 that fits it.


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## marinemaster

SF = no 18650 support
Elzetta = no 18650 support
I'll pass


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## shane45_1911

marinemaster said:


> SF = no 18650 support
> Elzetta = no 18650 support
> I'll pass



LOL!!!! Oh wait, you were serious?


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## CPFBiology

No 26650 support. 

I'll pass. :devil:

Actually thinking of getting an Ogaz. But I've seen the videos of the hammering, but I've also seen torture tests of Jetbeams too.


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## 2100

shane45_1911 said:


> LOL!!!! Oh wait, you were serious?



LOL....  I knew this would come out....

I am serious. Well i know i could use 16340s, but the hit in capacity is quite a fair bit like more than half. So that definitely does not taste sweet. Managing like 8 pcs of 16340 and to be part of about 8-10 people in the team is not fun. CR123 costs a lot in my country be it locally or shipped, probably i/we/they would easily have raked > $5000 in batteries per year if I/we/they use it in reality. (it's nearly 2 sets 18650 per night). We In addition to the HIDs, they also use budgetlights and Jetbeam RRT-2 for the rougher conditions. The good thing about budgetlights is that switches/lenses are always cheap and available and believe it or not some are tough. The single RRT-2 i sent over (it's being used in Indonesia) already is pretty scractched up and it's used by the team leader. HIDs do not surive once they drop 50-60m to the soft ground from tropical trees.

Wait...maybe more than $5000 per year.


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## twl

If you won't be using it as a weaponlight, you can use a pair of 14500 in it, if you get the 3-cell model.

The reason that no serious weaponlight-rated lights use the li-ion rechargeables is that the recoil can wreck the battery's protection IC, and that compromises the light.
Serious lights don't use li-ion rechargeables if they are intended for combat roles.
That's why Surefire doesn't do it either.
But you a get around it with a 3-cell model and a pair of 14500. Only 750mah, though. But it will give you the recharging ability, and give you the right voltage.


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## calflash

Policescannerman (or anyone else) - I see you are a fan of malkoff lights and elzetta lights. Could you describe the differences between the housings? Advantages and disadvantages of one vs. the other?


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## Nachtwacht

I also very much appreciate my Elzetta's. They're tough, reliable, use Malkoff-modules and offer a variety of interchangeable tailcaps, bodies and bezels. They're worth the price.



calflash said:


> Policescannerman (or anyone else) - I see you are a fan of malkoff lights and elzetta lights. Could you describe the differences between the housings? Advantages and disadvantages of one vs. the other?



Calflash, maybe this thread by pjandyho answers some of your questions.

'How does Elzetta ZFL-M60 stack up to Malkoff MD2?':
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-does-Elzetta-ZFL-M60-stack-up-to-Malkoff-MD2

P.S.: I do wish Elzetta could also offer completely round 2-cell and 3-cell bodies with removable / adjustable rubber grip rings, comparable to the SureFire Z2 / Z3 bodies, without being accused of SF patent infringement. THAT would make great hand held tactical lights! Anybody at Elzetta reading this?


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## yellow

> best kept secret


I just checked prices and now have to disagree.

Whats the _secret_ in a light that costs more than a custom HA/custom colored overady P60 host, bored for 18650, with McKlicky, together with a custom made nailbender multimode P60 insert?

If it were less, then ...


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## dirtech

Where does one purchase a host only with high low switch?


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## FPSRelic

yellow said:


> I just checked prices and now have to disagree.
> 
> Whats the secret in a light that costs more than a custom HA/custom colored overady P60 host, bored for 18650, with McKlicky, together with a custom made nailbender multimode P60 insert?
> 
> If it were less, then ...



It's the ruggedness of the elzetta's displayed in the videos that makes them look awesome. I'm not even sure my surefires can take the kind of beating shown in those videos.


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## precisionworks

> I am mystified on why there is not much talk about Elzetta


My guess is that the company is still small enough that their ad budget is somewhat limited & they are target marketing rather than blanket marketing. They run a banner ad on AR15.com, post regularly there, and are a well respected light. Their focus is weapon lights & they've recently brought out a tape switch that allows forward mounting the light on any AR-type rifle & activating it with the non trigger hand. 



> They are not difficult to bore to 18mm. Someone will turn up to professionally
> do the work.


I haven't yet bored an Elzetta but it looks like there's plenty of tube thickness to work with.



> SF = no 18650 support
> Elzetta = no 18650 support


Everything I've read on AR15.com indicates that primaries are the preferred power source for weapon lights, both for long guns & pistols. It isn't surprising that battle lights like SF & Elzetta are designed around primaries.


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## abinok

The ones I've handled were certainly high quality, and having Gene's dropins are never a negative. And I know they are tough, but I just can't get past the aesthetics. I pit them in the same category as Sig handguns. I know they are good in quality of construction, materials, and performance... but nothing in their line gets me excited.


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## twl

abinok said:


> The ones I've handled were certainly high quality, and having Gene's dropins are never a negative. And I know they are tough, but I just can't get past the aesthetics. I pit them in the same category as Sig handguns. I know they are good in quality of construction, materials, and performance... but nothing in their line gets me excited.



Of course, the visual aspect is subjective, and different people have different aesthetic tastes.
However, I will say that when you get the light and hold it in your hand and look at it, it looks quite a bit smaller than in the pictures. And the proportions look much more appropriate. The pictures all seem to make the head look very big, and the head isn't really very big at all. In fact, the entire light isn't as big as it seems to be in all the photos.
It is a much more appealing light "in person". At least, I think it is.

Also, the Elzetta is confidence-inspiring when you hold it. You just *know* that this light is NOT gonna break, no matter what you do to it. It is the most solid-feeling light I have ever held.
This is something you can't experience from a picture.
Also, the tailswitch is exceptionally good. The momentary has great press action, and it is very predictable in operation. And even when you click it, it is almost silent in operation. And with the hi/lo, the mode change is a 1/8 twist of the tailcap, which is quick and easy and all done with the same hand from the tactical position without changing grip. And you can select the brightness level with the tailcap when the light is off, so you don't ever have it come on the the wrong mode if you pay attention.
That's some other things that you don't see in a picture.

The quality of the HAIII is incredible, and the best I have ever seen, bar none. You can sort of see that in the picture, but it's even better "in person".

It's not a lightweight light, but it probably the most rugged light in existence. I think it is the pinnacle of all tactical lights, and is the new benchmark for tactical.


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## calflash

Nachtwacht said:


> Calflash, maybe this thread by pjandyho answers some of your questions.
> 
> 'How does Elzetta ZFL-M60 stack up to Malkoff MD2?':
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-does-Elzetta-ZFL-M60-stack-up-to-Malkoff-MD2


Thanks. That was helpful. They seem like they are both good and tough. I guess it's just a matter of personal preference.


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## guiri

It's only a well kept secret if you DON'T hang out in CPF


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## moshow9

Any idea of what runtime on high would be with a 17670 in the 2-cell body?


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## BIG45-70

moshow9 said:


> Any idea of what runtime on high would be with a 17670 in the 2-cell body?



I got an hour and a half at full output and another 2 hours of lower output light. I ended the test at 3 hours because this satisfied my need. I'm not sure how much longer it would have ran for.


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## 2100

moshow9 said:


> Any idea of what runtime on high would be with a 17670 in the 2-cell body?


Hey....i never knew that it could run off a 17670. If that's the case then it's not too bad. I just might get one someday.

BIG45-70, can i confirm that with a single cell (17670) it only drops out of regulation (ie full output) when the cell goes below 3.4V under load?


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## hron61

just might have to try one someday soon. can anyone confirm if the elzetta high/strobe tailcap fits on and works properly on the md2/md3 bodys?


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## moshow9

BIG45-70 said:


> I got an hour and a half at full output and another 2 hours of lower output light. I ended the test at 3 hours because this satisfied my need. I'm not sure how much longer it would have ran for.


Thank you for taking the time to check BIG45-70, I really appreciate that.


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## BIG45-70

I didn't measure the voltage, I just eyeballed it.


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## dirtech

That would be quite handy in conjunction with a high/low ring. Two sets of two modes quickly accessible. 



hron61 said:


> just might have to try one someday soon. can anyone confirm if the elzetta high/strobe tailcap fits on and works properly on the md2/md3 bodys?


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## run4jc

I just in the past couple of days received (influenced to purchase based on PSM's opinion and my own research) a couple of Elzettas - both ZFL-M60 - one with the crenelated bezel and high/strobe - one with low profile bezel and high/low. Both with Malkoff 8 degree M60 modules.

I love 'em, and the Glock comparison is a good one. What's not to love? They are bullet proof, solid lights. I may have to do my own 'mini-review' this weekend, but for now I have to agree with PSM's OP in that these lights do not seem to get the attention that they deserve.

I'll mount the CB hi/strobe version on my AR - the low profile version will go into my dog walking light rotation.

Great to buy a "Made In America" light that will likely withstand the worst possible torture!


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## Dingle1911

I too have been reading about them and watching youtube. I am considering purchasing a 2 cell. I like primary batteries, I have a ton of them and I can keep a box of 12 in several locations.


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## Swedpat

I really like the design of Elzetta and considered to get one or two of these. But I am dissapointed they don't offer lens & gasket alone, only together with Malkoff M61 dropin. That's because I would like to use it with some of the M61W dropins.
Anyway I still consider to get one complete configuration with high/low and M60.


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## RI Chevy

Any more photos? The website is kind of limited on information posted. The 3 cell Elzetta has been on my wish list for a while. I would like to see more information on the host itself. And as a comparison to a Surefire or Solarforce host. Just to see if the extra money for the host is worth it. Do they give the buyer any options on drop-ins?


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## diesel79

I have had a 3 cell one for a month or so now. I really like it. Good runtimes and very high quality. They have always answered very promptly when I have emailed them. Awesome customer service and an awesome product.


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## run4jc

Swedpat said:


> I really like the design of Elzetta and considered to get one or two of these. But I am dissapointed they don't offer lens & gasket alone, only together with Malkoff M61 dropin. That's because I would like to use it with some of the M61W dropins.
> Anyway I still consider to get one complete configuration with high/low and M60.



You can buy the lens and gasket on the Malkoffdevices.com site...



RI Chevy said:


> Any more photos? The website is kind of limited on information posted. The 3 cell Elzetta has been on my wish list for a while. I would like to see more information on the host itself. And as a comparison to a Surefire or Solarforce host. Just to see if the extra money for the host is worth it. Do they give the buyer any options on drop-ins?



You can choose between 20 degree or 8 degree on full light configurations - you can order the various parts and assemble your own configuration on their web site - tail cap, bezel, body, drop in, o-rings - everything. I plan to do a short review this weekend and will offer some comparison photos of 2 cell versus Surefire models...


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## run4jc

Dingle1911 said:


> I too have been reading about them and watching youtube. I am considering purchasing a 2 cell. I like primary batteries, I have a ton of them and I can keep a box of 12 in several locations.



And good to know that you can use 2 RCRs with the 2 cell body - I have 2 AW RCRs in one of mine right now. The Malkoff M60 can handle up to 9 Volts, I believe.


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## PoliceScannerMan

Oh yeah baby, glad to see this thread get bumped! Still loving my elzettas. Glad youre happy with yours Dan.

(BTW> were not quite even, your Haiku CRI thread made me spring for one!  )


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## Slumber

hahoo said:


> very ugly light.... sorry......



I thought so too until I saw it with the low profile bezel. Then the other bezels kind of grew on me as well.


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## kaichu dento

hahoo said:


> very ugly light.... sorry......


Not nearly as ugly as this, only your second post since joining. If you've nothing constructive to add then go find a thread that actually holds interest to you, and refrain from trolling.


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## scout24

Bombproof host, and the chances of you hurting that Malkoff drop-in are pretty much zero, watch some of the Elzetta abuse videos... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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## Bussy Hackett

When I was looking into my first hi intensity LED I looked and looked then put the project down as not to burn out. I looked into the Elzetta and was blown away WOW you can beat nails with it and take it apart underwater cool!

Well I can say if I want to beat nails I'll use a hammer if I want to submerse my light I'll buy a dive light. With this marketing of tougher than nails eh left me kinda cold. I don't want to beat the heck out of my light nor do I want to submerse either. 

The fact you can't put 18650 in it weighs more to me than a hammer light. The fact that i can get another manufacturer with higher output and longer run times is way better than any light I can take apart under water. Is the light tough....yea yes it is with out a doubt.

Can I find a light with a brighter output that I can attach to my weapon with longer run time....yep. For me I know their a start up company but for the price...you at least I think and it's just me.... you can find a less expensive higher output light.

For me I chose a Klarus why....higher output easy of use and price. I'm not gonna build a house with my flashlight nor am I gonna clean it in the shower with me. Just my 2 cents for what that's worth....maybe a penny!


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## diesel79

The light is obviously designed to take abuse. It so happens to double as a flashlight for everyday use if you want it to. Will most of us normal users need this, probably not, but it is good knowing that I have alight that can take some serious abuse and keep functioning. To me its about the service and warranty after the sale as well, and being made in the USA. Thats just me though and Im new to the flashlight obsession.


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## Capt. Nemo

I carried one on duty for several months and can say it one tough light...

Got a call of a suspicious person. Went to the location, and as a matter of habit, pulled out my light and approached (about 2130 hours). Dude took off and the foot pursuit was on. After playing frogger across a busy street a couple of times (I'm fit and fast, this guy was hopped up on something and running, literally, like a chicken with its head cut off), I got tired of almost getting hit by cars. Clicked my Elzetta on, and from a distance of about 20 yards, threw it at his feet with everything I had just as he turned around to see me heave it at him. The light flipped through the air, creating a strobe effect as it spun, and hit the pavement about a foot in front of him. When the light hit the pavement it sparked (pretty cool at the time) and skittered off into some bushes - still on. The dude in the mean time, put up his hands and immediately told me he was done (he hardly seemed out of breathe - darn narcotics...).

So, the lights are tough. The bezel had a ding in it, but functioned perfect. I would not recommend doing that with a light, or throwing something at someone else - but it worked at the time, and no one got hurt... I may buy another one at some point in the future, but went with a brighter custom light (oveready triple) to help overcome a lot of the ambient lighting of street lights that wash out some of the lower power lights.


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## Bullzeyebill

hahoo, both of your trolling posts have been deleted, and you now down to 0 posts. Any further posting by you will be monitored closely.

Bill


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## dirtech

Swedpat said:


> I really like the design of Elzetta and considered to get one or two of these. But I am dissapointed they don't offer lens & gasket alone, only together with Malkoff M61 dropin. That's because I would like to use it with some of the M61W dropins.
> Anyway I still consider to get one complete configuration with high/low and M60.



I emailed them and they said to call them to order and you can get your lens and gasket. If I get one of these I'm only getting the host to use with my existing malkoffs and I'll need lens and gasket.


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## parnass

Which throws further in both high and low brightness settings: the Elzetta 2-cell ZFL-M60-SS2D or the Surefire LX2?

Thanks.


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## twl

parnass said:


> Which throws further in both high and low brightness settings: the Elzetta 2-cell ZFL-M60-SS2D or the Surefire LX2?
> 
> Thanks.



I don't know how far an LX2 throws. I never used one.
My 3 cell Elzetta throws an honest 150 yards down my road on a dark night, with enough light to see anything I need to see.
The M60 has a tight optic of 8 degrees, and it throws pretty good. And the famous Malkoff beam quality and tint are really nice. The M60 is what made Malkoff's reputation. It's really good. XRE-Q4(I think) behind the 8* optic.
I really don't think there is any difference in throw with 2 cells or 3 cells. Just a runtime difference.


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## dudemar

I always wanted to pick one of these up, but it's a little pricy for my tastes. It is right in line with Pila when it comes to build quality though.


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## scout24

Got my low profile bezel 2-cell hi/lo in the mail this evening, and just got back from my second dog walk with it.  Probably the best finish I've seen on an aluminum light, bar none. The M60 will give white wall hunters fits, but is fantastic outdoors in the dark. I thought it would be more of a pinpoint beam, but was pleasantly suprised. The ability to run primaries, RCR123's or a 17670 was a plus for me. Throws well, and the low level of 15ish lumens is nice. Seems as tough as they come, without being overly chunky. just enough to remind you that you're holding a serious tool. It's a keeper! Thanks for the push, Dan... :nana:


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## pjandyho

twl said:


> I don't know how far an LX2 throws. I never used one.
> My 3 cell Elzetta throws an honest 150 yards down my road on a dark night, with enough light to see anything I need to see.
> The M60 has a tight optic of 8 degrees, and it throws pretty good. And the famous Malkoff beam quality and tint are really nice. The M60 is what made Malkoff's reputation. It's really good. XRE-Q4(I think) behind the 8* optic.
> I really don't think there is any difference in throw with 2 cells or 3 cells. Just a runtime difference.


I remember reading that Malkoff M60 units are also known for the inconsistencies with their beam profile. Something to do with getting a proper alignment of the optic to the LED. That is one of the reason Malkoff went with the M61 design.


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## run4jc

scout24 said:


> Got my low profile bezel 2-cell hi/lo in the mail this evening, and just got back from my second dog walk with it.  Probably the best finish I've seen on an aluminum light, bar none. The M60 will give white wall hunters fits, but is fantastic outdoors in the dark. I thought it would be more of a pinpoint beam, but was pleasantly suprised. The ability to run primaries, RCR123's or a 17670 was a plus for me. Throws well, and the low level of 15ish lumens is nice. Seems as tough as they come, without being overly chunky. just enough to remind you that you're holding a serious tool. It's a keeper! Thanks for the push, Dan... :nana:



Great assessment, Greg! I just subscribed to this thread, as I missed a lot of the posts. I'll be working on a mini-review this long weekend, and will post photos ad nauseum to ensure every angle is shown. I've learned a few things through the years - hopefully more learning to come - but there are a few absolutes:



No light will please everyone
Policescannerman knows what he is talking about
Never assume that something is 'good enough'.
 
I'll save the rest of my comments for a review thread, but for now just say "Thank you" to PSM for bringing these lights to my attention. US Made - Malkoff light engine - toughness that qualifies as "over engineered." What's not to like! Glad you like yours, Greg!!

Only problem now? I've become a Malkoff Junkie!!


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## PoliceScannerMan

run4jc said:


> No light will please everyone
> Policescannerman knows what he is talking about
> Never assume that something is 'good enough'.



I beg to differ the middle one!! 

There are many many many more CPFers around that are way wiser than me. I enjoy the flashlight hobby, but my knowledge with emitters and drivers and battery chemistry are at a minimum. I love lights, that's all I know. 

No really I just like what I like I guess. I know a good product when I see one. 

In no order, Malkoff, McGizmo, SF, HDS, Elzetta, all winners in my book.


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## run4jc

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I beg to differ the middle one!!
> 
> There are many many many more CPFers around that are way wiser than me. I enjoy the flashlight hobby, but my knowledge with emitters and drivers and battery chemistry are at a minimum. I love lights, that's all I know.
> 
> No really I just like what I like I guess. I know a good product when I see one.
> 
> In no order, Malkoff, McGizmo, SF, HDS, Elzetta, all winners in my book.



Not trying to get the last word - and not trying to over praise, but knowledge of emitters, drivers, battery chemistry and the like are all important, and I wish I had better knowledge. I suppose these are things someone one can learn, and the many custom builders have this knowledge as do many, many members. 

Still, specs are one thing - how they are all assembled into a quality product is another. Recognizing that quality 'beyond the specs' is an important thing. I never would have really taken a hard look at the Elzetta had you not pointed the product out, and "Mr. Punchy Flood" himself hit a home run with this one!

Just sayin'...

:grouphug: :thumbsup:


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## diesel79

What would be a good combo of rechargeables for the three cell? Im not sure what will fit, or what would provide some good runtimes.


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## run4jc

diesel79 said:


> What would be a good combo of rechargeables for the three cell? Im not sure what will fit, or what would provide some good runtimes.



According to the Elzetta and Malkoff web sites, this drop in is limited to 9V and use should be limited to primaries only. That said, 3 LiFeP04s might be an option, although you'd be pushing closer to 10V fully charged. 

OR - the best route (IMHO), use 2 17500s. Then you'd be under 9V and still enjoy greater run time.

Someone with more knowledge might offer more suggestions...


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## twl

Pjandyho,
I have never seen anything like that ever.
I have heard that some people shined 2 M60s at a white wall at the same time, and noticed some differences.
None of them ever were discernibly different if it wasn't a direct comparison on a wall.
In real use, totally unnoticeable, unless it was a rare defective unit which Gene would obviously replace immediately.

I have numerous Malkoff lights, with optics and with reflectors.
In all cases, I prefer the optic versions over the reflectors, including that I MUCH prefer the M60 over the M61.
IMHO.


----------



## Swedpat

I wish Elzetta would offer a high/low tailcap for 50% brightness at high. It would make it possible to get a 117,5lumen high with M60 dropin. That's enough for most tasks, and would provide much better runtime.


----------



## seahunt

Don't forget, the 2-cell can be bored for 2x18350 or 1x18650. An OR tri module works well
with 2x18350. Regards, Chuck


----------



## snakyjake

Elzetta's market is weapon/military/LEO lights. Wouldn't protected batteries cutout when voltage drops too low, leaving your mission without light? How much recoil can lithium-ion take before battery damage...and explode? Rechargeables have only so many charging cycles, and it does seem like the charge don't last very long. I don't find regularly used rechargeables to be predictable enough for a "tactical" light.

On the other hand: I'd like something rechargeable so my "tactical" light is always 100% charged and ready. I'd have the light and batteries plugged into an outlet in my gun safe. Since the Elzetta has battery shock absorbers, perhaps recoil damage is not a concern.

When is Elzetta/Makoff going to offer 400 lumen XM-L drop-ins? But concerned about the heat of a 400+ lumen light. 
I have my eye on EagleTac and Wolfe-Eyes too.


----------



## diesel79

You can put a M91 in the Elzetta 3 cell, XML 450 Lumens.


----------



## yifu

Not really interested personally. They are
1. Ugly compared to Surefire lights.
2. Not really idea as a P60 host since they are missing a lens and aren't compatible with 18650 cells, the latter can be fixed by boring of course.
3. No pocket clip and not compatible with aftermarket Surefire upgrades like bezel rings, Derelin shrouds, McClickys etc.
Your mileage may vary.


----------



## purelite

I dont think Elzetta had intentions of making a universally compatible host like a Solarforce P60 light for poeple who like to Lego. Its more of a mission specific light with the top priority being durability/reliability not compatibility.

I agree it would be nice to have 18mm ability though they have no intentions of doing this ( I asked them)

A pocket clip would be a nice addition


----------



## scout24

I think it's a shame that these are marketed and thought of as strictly a "weapon light". I know that's how they're built and what they're intended for, but the utility goes far beyond that. Don't like the M60? No problem. High/low tailcap, 2 cell body and a low profile head will run you $121.00. M61's will all fit, in your choice of cool, neutral, warm or hi-cri tint. Regular output, "L" or "LL" as well. Don't forget flood options! All but indestructable disaster light, camping light, handheld duty light, or dog walker custom built to your needs as far as runtime, output, and tint. With the runtime available on primaries, this may be one of the few lights I own where RCR's won't be an issue for me. No 18650? No problem. I'll run 2xAW RCR123's if I need to, or squeeze a 17670 in there. Dark Sucks Ti clip fits and works, but needs the tailcap tight to stay in place just like my G2. Mine's a keeper!


----------



## snakyjake

@PoliceScannerMan:

Can you show photos of the tailcap? It appears the button is recessed, which I think makes it more unlikely to activate in a high risk situation.

Can you show photos of the battery protection? There should be springs or something to help protect the battery from recoil. There might also be a larger battery heat sink too.

Jake


----------



## NYShooter

I bought an Elzetta host recently (already had an M61), to use on a HD shotgun. These lights are first and foremost_ weapons_ lights and, as such, IMO there is nothing better at anywhere near the price. Having owned several SF weapons lights, I think this Elzetta is better than any comparable SF in terms of light output, beam quality, controls, construction and finish. And, at 260 honest lumens (got to love that Malkoff), it is almost too bright for HD use. I love this light...


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

snakyjake said:


> @PoliceScannerMan:
> 
> Can you show photos of the tailcap? It appears the button is recessed, which I think makes it more unlikely to activate in a high risk situation.
> 
> I dont have photos up close, but the button is not recessed.
> 
> Can you show photos of the battery protection? There should be springs or something to help protect the battery from recoil. There might also be a larger battery heat sink too.
> 
> Correct, the bottom of Malkoff Drop ins have a spring, as well as a spring on the TC, the battery tube holds the cells nicely, with not much side to side play. No rattle when shaken.
> Jake


----------



## Chadder

I just watched the you tube press conference from Elzetta at shot show. I'm going to be very interested in their products this year!


----------



## cummins4x4

Chadder said:


> I just watched the you tube press conference from Elzetta at shot show. I'm going to be very interested in their products this year!



Tried searching you tube for it, would you mind posting a link, or pm if thats a nono Never mind found it


----------



## fyrstormer

The main thing that comes to my mind is the proprietary bezel. I don't like the fact that the aperture isn't full-width compared to the Surefire P-series standard. That's my main objection to the Malkoff VME head as well, actually. I bought the titanium version and was all excited about stuffing a Torch Lab Tri-XPG drop-in into it, but the head was too narrow for the drop-in to fit.

It doesn't matter to me if Elzetta hosts are built like tanks, or if Malkoff drop-ins are the best in the business, I want the flexibility to use other products as well. Durability is important to me, but I _am_ willing to sacrifice a little in exchange for better features. Can't do that with a narrow-aperture head.

It's a shame, really, because aside from that one complaint I'd much prefer an Elzetta host instead of a Surefire host.


----------



## run4jc

fyrstormer said:


> The main thing that comes to my mind is the proprietary bezel. I don't like the fact that the aperture isn't full-width compared to the Surefire P-series standard. That's my main objection to the Malkoff VME head as well, actually. I bought the titanium version and was all excited about stuffing a Torch Lab Tri-XPG drop-in into it, but the head was too narrow for the drop-in to fit.
> 
> It doesn't matter to me if Elzetta hosts are built like tanks, or if Malkoff drop-ins are the best in the business, I want the flexibility to use other products as well. Durability is important to me, but I _am_ willing to sacrifice a little in exchange for better features. Can't do that with a narrow-aperture head.
> 
> It's a shame, really, because aside from that one complaint I'd much prefer an Elzetta host instead of a Surefire host.



All valid comments, but the one thing to consider is the fact that Elzetta's pricing structure allows you to lego systems together at no price penalty. Giving the option to purchase the tail switch/cap, body and which ever of their heads you prefer. That's not meant to be "the answer" to your particular concern, but it is indicative of a level of flexibility (especially in purchasing and pricing) that is attractive, at least to me.

Just another opinion....

EDIT - I took out my comments about using $urefire heads - I was in error. I apologize.


----------



## fyrstormer

run4jc said:


> All valid comments, but the one thing to consider is the fact that Elzetta's pricing structure allows you to lego systems together at no price penalty. Giving the option to purchase the tail switch/cap and body, and put any E-series head ( or a P series with the appropriate adaptor) you like on it. That's not meant to be "the answer" to your particular concern, but it is indicative of a level of flexibility (especially in purchasing and pricing) that is attractive, at least to me.
> 
> Just another opinion....


Butbutbut...the head is the coolest looking part! The rest is just a tube with a switch on the end, nothing special.


----------



## run4jc

fyrstormer said:


> Butbutbut...the head is the coolest looking part! The rest is just a tube with a switch on the end, nothing special.



I know - cool, ain't it...you need several!! :devil:


----------



## twl

I say, get a spare head, and get out your dremel, file, and sandpaper, and modify the inside of that one head to take the other modules you want.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

yifu said:


> Not really interested personally. They are
> 1. Ugly compared to Surefire lights.
> 
> Your mileage may vary.



+1


----------



## scout24

May I ask what does it for you about SF's lights in particular that you find offensive or unattractive about Elzettas? Must be the heads, as fyrstormer said, the rest is just a tube with a switch on the end, nothing special... In my experience, things that are purpose-built to excel at one thing tend to polarize people's opinion as to looks, and the designer couldn't care less as long as it excells at it's desired mission. A-10 Warthog tank killer plane comes to mind. One of the ugliest aircraft in our nation's arsenal, but does well what no other can. I've had the privilege of having them flying over and ahead of me in an air support role, and was not caring about how they look. Humvee, as another example. Back-end-of-the-dog ugly, but they are fantastic at what they were designed to do. I'll keep my Elzetta, and know that I've got a product that was optimized for it's mission. See 12ga. video, read Magpull's quote about having one with over 100,000rds. of .223 on one in all manner of conditions. Maybe you should start another thread singing the praises of SF's designs instead of hanging out here. Sorry for feeding the trolls, but once in a while it bugs me. Give me a time out if you will...


----------



## purelite

wait a minute. Run4jc, are you saying the Elzetta is compatible with e series SF heads and C series SF heads with an adapter?

I would take Scouts post 1 step further , I find the aesthetic qualities of something to be higher when the designer puts function before form. To me the more purpose built something is and the more successful it is at efficiently acheiving that goal some how makes the resulting form that much more attractive .


----------



## run4jc

purelite said:


> wait a minute. Run4jc, are you saying the Elzetta is compatible with e series SF heads and C series SF heads with an adapter?



That was an error on my part. I was thinking about my VME head and confused the point. Sorry! No, the Elzetta is NOT compatible with E series heads...and I've never tried a 'C' series head, but I will and will update the post afterwards. I apologize, and will edit my post.

And I agree with you and Scout on the aesthetic qualities - and I find these lights to be aesthetically pleasing. My uninformed guess is that those who might think otherwise have probably never set eyes on an actual Elzetta specimen...I could be wrong....

UPDATE - I did try a $urefire 6P head on the Elzetta host. The threads matched and it attached, although not as deeply as it should. I put a Nailbender light engine in it and it did work, but only at one level. It appears to me that there is just enough difference to prevent full compatibility, although 'in a pinch' it will work.


----------



## purelite

Thanx RunJc!! I got excited there for a minute!!!

Hey, can you quickly say if a Surefire Z41 type tailcap will fit on an Elzetta body since you have things right there? I dont think I have ever read about that end of the light and compatibility


----------



## leon2245

purelite said:


> Thanx RunJc!! I got excited there for a minute!!!



Me too. Ideas were formulating.


----------



## fyrstormer

twl said:


> I say, get a spare head, and get out your dremel, file, and sandpaper, and modify the inside of that one head to take the other modules you want.


I've thought of that before. Unfortunately I can't re-anodize the area I shave off. Now, if they made a titanium special edition, I could work with that...


----------



## fyrstormer

scout24 said:


> A-10 Warthog tank killer plane comes to mind. One of the ugliest aircraft in our nation's arsenal, but does well what no other can. I've had the privilege of having them flying over and ahead of me in an air support role, and was not caring about how they look.


I wonder if I'm the only person on earth who thinks the A-10 looks pretty cool. It's not elegant, admittedly, but that's not the point. The point is it can fly low to the ground and blow s**t up at close range. Though I have to admit, if I could only own one military aircraft (as opposed to my current collection of zero ), it would have to be a V-22.


----------



## flashy bazook

yifu said:


> Not really interested personally. They are
> 1. Ugly compared to Surefire lights.
> 2. Not really idea as a P60 host since they are missing a lens and aren't compatible with 18650 cells, the latter can be fixed by boring of course.
> 3. No pocket clip and not compatible with aftermarket Surefire upgrades like bezel rings, Derelin shrouds, McClickys etc.
> Your mileage may vary.



1. Surefire lights are utilitarian, not pretty. No one buys Surefires because of their beauty!
2. You can buy lenses for M61, etc. Not very costly, either. For a weapon light, you don't want rechargeables, primaries are more reliable for the use these flashlights are intended for.
3. You don't need these particular "upgrades". The bezel is tough enough as it is, the Derlin shroud would get in the way of easy one-finger operation as the light hangs from its weapon, and the switch is fine for its intended use as well.

And what about the pluses of this light? Don't they deserve a mention?

4. You get the hi-low choice in the tailcap, which is not easily available in some other surefire lego setups.
5. You get a strobe option! A great option that is even less easily available in the surefire lego setups with Malkoff drop-ins.
6. You get continued availability of the M60! This is now not normally offered by Malkoff devices, as they have moved on to the M61 line. Yet may of us liked its optic much better (as always, for certain uses) than the reflectored M61. So this is great to ensure continued availability.
7. The "tolerances" of this light are tighter than with the Surefire legos, which often need some tweaking to work--maybe copper rings, copper tape, other tinkering here and there. The extra "gasket" type water protection (inside the light) also helps protect this against water incursions. You can achieve something similar with surefire legos, but maybe not as easily (since it is not in the design, as such) or reliably.

Basically, why criticize a light by saying it doesn't do something outside of its main intended use as well as other lights that are designed for these other uses? Even to use it outside of its main intended use as a weapon light, the Elzetta is pretty useful, as a 2x123 primary (or 2xRCR123) light that is pretty impervious to water and to other malfunctions, with the option of hi-low or hi-strobe which is most often unavailable in similar surefire lego contraptions. No one stops anyone from having also more than one light for different situations!


----------



## run4jc

flashy bazook said:


> 1. Surefire lights are utilitarian, not pretty. No one buys Surefires because of their beauty!
> 2. You can buy lenses for M61, etc. Not very costly, either. For a weapon light, you don't want rechargeables, primaries are more reliable for the use these flashlights are intended for.
> 3. You don't need these particular "upgrades". The bezel is tough enough as it is, the Derlin shroud would get in the way of easy one-finger operation as the light hangs from its weapon, and the switch is fine for its intended use as well.
> 
> And what about the pluses of this light? Don't they deserve a mention?
> 
> 4. You get the hi-low choice in the tailcap, which is not easily available in some other surefire lego setups.
> 5. You get a strobe option! A great option that is even less easily available in the surefire lego setups with Malkoff drop-ins.
> 6. You get continued availability of the M60! This is now not normally offered by Malkoff devices, as they have moved on to the M61 line. Yet may of us liked its optic much better (as always, for certain uses) than the reflectored M61. So this is great to ensure continued availability.
> 7. The "tolerances" of this light are tighter than with the Surefire legos, which often need some tweaking to work--maybe copper rings, copper tape, other tinkering here and there. The extra "gasket" type water protection (inside the light) also helps protect this against water incursions. You can achieve something similar with surefire legos, but maybe not as easily (since it is not in the design, as such) or reliably.
> 
> Basically, why criticize a light by saying it doesn't do something outside of its main intended use as well as other lights that are designed for these other uses? Even to use it outside of its main intended use as a weapon light, the Elzetta is pretty useful, as a 2x123 primary (or 2xRCR123) light that is pretty impervious to water and to other malfunctions, with the option of hi-low or hi-strobe which is most often unavailable in similar surefire lego contraptions. No one stops anyone from having also more than one light for different situations!



+1 :goodjob:

And oh, by the way, the comment about primaries in the Elzetta / Malkoff combo is spot on. Scout24 got 53 hours of constant run time on low out of the included Battery Station primaries - I got 2 hours 10 minutes on high, then another useful 28 hours on low out of mine. I've favored rechargeables (and still will with some lights), but with 10 years shelf life and this kind of run time, my Elzetta mounted on my AR (i.e., SHTF light) will always have primaries in it - and I'll be confident that I'll have useful light for quite a long time after any of my RCRs beyond the time I'd safely get from my RCRs.

Great post, Flashy Bazook!


----------



## kaichu dento

hahoo said:


> very ugly light.... sorry......





kaichu dento said:


> Not nearly as ugly as this, only your second post since joining. If you've nothing constructive to add then go find a thread that actually holds interest to you, and refrain from trolling.





Bullzeyebill said:


> hahoo, both of your trolling posts have been deleted, and you now down to 0 posts. Any further posting by you will be monitored closely.
> 
> Bill





yifu said:


> They are 1. Ugly compared to Surefire lights.


Can we get on subject and quit with the subjective troll inducing suggestion that the lights are ugly, particularly when many of us feel otherwise? 

Unless anyone really thinks that the industry's best kept secret is the ugliness of Elzetta's lights then it's not pertinent to this thread and it would be much more enjoyable to read about the lights tangible qualities rather than ugly comments on their appearance.


----------



## RI Chevy

The thing that I first noticed about these lights was I thought they were very attractive, cool looking lights. The second thing was that they are bomb proof and well engineered! They are very versatile lights that will last a lifetime. In all types of usage.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

On the Youtube video, Elzetta says that between all the different parts, there are 72 different Elzetta Lego possibilities!! :rock:


----------



## Neo9710

Im VERY tempted to pick this light up... Looks like you can get a M60F (20 Degree flood) direct from Elzetta. Unfortuately, I am one of these poor lost souls that doesnt have any Malkoff drop in's and most of the people I work with are still stuck in the Surefire mode (NO mods). And thats where my dilemma starts...I have a O-Light on my rifle right now. Im looking for something with a little more flood. Originally, I was planning to buy a built 6P from Oveready but seeing these reviews got me thinking of picking one up. This light will probably stay on my rifle - which is DEFINITELY not a safe queen. Ive been in Capt. Nemo's position more than once. Ok - the light is tough as HELL. I get it! I got the point after the first shotgun blast....Dont need any more vids/pics of that but I would like to see...

Some pics of the light down a cluttered hallway..Light shining along side of a brick house into a yard..emptying out into a back yard with a shed..can anyone help out?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Neo, you can buy the Elzetta parts A la carte, they take any Malkoff P60 Drop in. So if you want a M61, just buy that and a lens kit. I think Elzetta sells them too.

As far as beamshots, there are tons, just search for Malkoff Beamshots!


----------



## snakyjake

Aren't the Malkoff drop-ins older LED technology? What about XML or high CRI?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

snakyjake said:


> Aren't the Malkoff drop-ins older LED technology? What about XML or high CRI?



M91(W)>>>XML>>>> Check!
M61HCRI>>HCRI>>>> Check!


----------



## snakyjake

But they require 3 cells, while others require just one cell.


----------



## yifu

snakyjake said:


> But they require 3 cells, while others require just one cell.


You can use 2 li-on cells for max output or 1 li-on cell for reduced output! The M60/61 is designed for 2 CR123s as well, not 1 cell...


----------



## Erzengel

snakyjake said:


> Aren't the Malkoff drop-ins older LED technology? What about XML or high CRI?



the XP-G is no old technology. For lights with less than 300 Lumens, it offers more throw than an XM-L at the same efficiency.
For a light with more than 300 Lumens You need three cells, otherwise You don't have enough runtime for a tough nightshift.


----------



## diesel79

Ive got an XML and a couple with XPG LED's and all of them are equaly as great as the next.


----------



## Neo9710

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Neo, you can buy the Elzetta parts A la carte, they take any Malkoff P60 Drop in. So if you want a M61, just buy that and a lens kit. I think Elzetta sells them too.
> 
> As far as beamshots, there are tons, just search for Malkoff Beamshots!



After reading your reply and then reading my post..I dont know what i was thinking! For some reason, I though the bezel may have affected the beam pattern..:sick2: Ive always been thinking about picking up a host and dropping a Malkoff in one. Just never have (I know...I know..) Lemme check out the M60L beam pattern..Hmmm...


----------



## snakyjake

yifu said:


> You can use 2 li-on cells for max output or 1 li-on cell for reduced output! The M60/61 is designed for 2 CR123s as well, not 1 cell...



This is what is turning me off...correct me if I'm wrong...

"It was designed specifically for use in...Elzetta ZFL Series (3 cell)..."
"The input voltage is 6.5 - 12 volts. Below 6.5 volts it will flash repeatedly or turn off. "

To get above 6.5v I will not use multiple lithium-ion batteries (2xRCR123A) in series for safety reasons. 2xCR123A is 6v, below the required 6.5v. 3xCR123A is too big of a light.

Jake


----------



## twl

snakyjake said:


> This is what is turning me off...correct me if I'm wrong...
> 
> "It was designed specifically for use in...Elzetta ZFL Series (3 cell)..."
> "The input voltage is 6.5 - 12 volts. Below 6.5 volts it will flash repeatedly or turn off. "
> 
> To get above 6.5v I will not use multiple lithium-ion batteries (2xRCR123A) in series for safety reasons. 2xCR123A is 6v, below the required 6.5v. 3xCR123A is too big of a light.
> 
> Jake



Unfortunately, you then can't use the M91 module, because you won't reach the 6.5v minimum voltage with two primary CR123 batteries.


----------



## fyrstormer

snakyjake said:


> This is what is turning me off...correct me if I'm wrong...
> 
> "It was designed specifically for use in...Elzetta ZFL Series (3 cell)..."
> "The input voltage is 6.5 - 12 volts. Below 6.5 volts it will flash repeatedly or turn off. "
> 
> To get above 6.5v I will not use multiple lithium-ion batteries (2xRCR123A) in series for safety reasons. 2xCR123A is 6v, below the required 6.5v. 3xCR123A is too big of a light.
> 
> Jake


*shrug* If you want a genuinely 100% SF P60 compatible light that isn't made in China, check out what TnC offers. They're just as strong as Elzettas and they work with any P60 drop-in you want. Here's a picture of what I assembled using TnC and McGizmo parts:







Admittedly, it cost about $600 to assemble that host, so it's not exactly the most economical solution, but at least it will never ever become obsolete.

- - -

Or, the simpler solution: buy some IMR123 batteries from the 'Hound. They can output higher wattage than RCR123s and they don't have any special danger of exploding.


----------



## AardvarkSagus

I'd have to give props to this opinion as well. I continue to be surprised at how little press the Elzetta lights get. People keep emailing me asking for recommendations on a good quality flashlight for emergency use, and I keep finding myself directing them at Elzetta. It might not be the best EDC, or even my favorite duty-carry light, but if I had to be stuck with just one light for a potentially intense situation, the Elzetta is definitely the one I'd grab. And I've got a decent selection to choose from too!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

fyrstormer said:


> *shrug* If you want a genuinely 100% SF P60 compatible light that isn't made in China,
> .



I may have interpreted your posts wrong, but Elzetta is 100% USA made AFAIK.


----------



## kaichu dento

AardvarkSagus said:


> I'd have to give props to this opinion as well. I continue to be surprised at how little press the Elzetta lights get. People keep emailing me asking for recommendations on a good quality flashlight for emergency use, and I keep finding myself directing them at Elzetta. It might not be the best EDC, or even my favorite duty-carry light, but if I had to be stuck with just one light for a potentially intense situation, the Elzetta is definitely the one I'd grab. And I've got a decent selection to choose from too!


This endorsement seals it for me. I don't know if I'll keep it once I get one, but I'm definitely going to get me an Elzetta!


----------



## eh4

Sorry if I've missed it somewhere in this thread, but how do you go about finding a 3 cell Elzetta?
I assume they won't fit the MD2, MD3, MD4 tubes.


----------



## fyrstormer

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I may have interpreted your posts wrong, but Elzetta is 100% USA made AFAIK.


Elzetta is made in the USA, but is not 100% SF compatible. Other hosts are 100% SF compatible, but not made in the USA. TnC hosts are both.


----------



## Slumber

As long as they're Malkoff (drop-in) compatible, I'm a happy camper!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

fyrstormer said:


> Elzetta is made in the USA, but is not 100% SF compatible. Other hosts are 100% SF compatible, but not made in the USA. TnC hosts are both.



Ahhh, gotcha.


----------



## twl

Slumber Pass,
Amen to that, brother!
I'd rather have a head machined to the precise shape to fit the module, for best thermal performance.
I gave up on the aluminum foil packing routine a long time ago.


----------



## twl

eh4 said:


> Sorry if I've missed it somewhere in this thread, but how do you go about finding a 3 cell Elzetta?
> I assume they won't fit the MD2, MD3, MD4 tubes.



The Elzetta website has all the parts available separately, and they are all "Lego-able", so you can change your 2-cell to a 3-cell with just a body change. Or you can just buy the whole light as a 3-cell, in any of the head and tail configurations. Or whatever. All interchangeable parts.
And the 3-cell models are sometimes seen on Ebay, or at dealers. It's a standard model in their line.
The Elzetta bodies are not bored for 18650 or any 18mm cells. They are designed for primary CR123, but I have heard people say that they will take a pair of 17500 in a 3-cell body, but I've never tried it personally.

They won't fit the Malkoff MD2,3,4 bodies.


----------



## fyrstormer

Question: Does anyone know whether the two-mode switch inside the Elzetta tailcap can be removed and fitted into a Surefire tailcap? I have no use for an Elzetta, but if their switch module can be fitted into a Surefire tailcap, I might just have use for the switch and a Malkoff drop-in.


----------



## MSaxatilus

Can all Malkoff drop-ins work with these lights or just the ones listed on their website?

I'm thinking specifically a Malkoff Triple?

MSax


----------



## MSaxatilus

I think I just answered my own question... the Triples are P-Series and these are for M-Series drop-ins correct?

MSax


----------



## RI Chevy

It would depend on voltage, and what you are using for batteries.


----------



## MSaxatilus

But physically they will fit in the head?


----------



## RI Chevy

I believe any Malkoff, and any standard P-60 type drop-in should fit.


----------



## twl

MSaxatilus said:


> I think I just answered my own question... the Triples are P-Series and these are for M-Series drop-ins correct?
> 
> MSax



What Malkoff triples?
There are no Malkoff triple modules.

You must be talking about the Oveready Triples. Completely different company, and they don't fit, although you might get one in there with a bit of grinding modification. However, the Oveready triples REQUIRE that you use IMR cells, and regular CR123 are not suitable because they can't give the current output.
You need to know what you are getting into when you contemplate those Oveready triple modules. They are powerful, and have very specific battery requirements.


----------



## MSaxatilus

My bad... I was thinking the Moodoo triples.

MSax


----------



## MSaxatilus

I feel like a noob!

MSax


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Dang, a Malkoff Triple P60 drop in?

EDIT: Duh, I shoulda clicked to new page!! :laughing:


----------



## bkumanski

Anyone know if the tape switches for the Elzetta's fit the Malkoff MD series? I was going to play around a little with legoing lights for my carbine and I noticed Elzetta makes a switch, and Malkoff doesn't (but lots of people have them on their ARs).


----------



## Slumber

bkumanski said:


> Anyone know if the tape switches for the Elzetta's fit the Malkoff MD series? I was going to play around a little with legoing lights for my carbine and I noticed Elzetta makes a switch, and Malkoff doesn't (but lots of people have them on their ARs).



I don't have one to try, but someone posted that the Moddoo Triad tailcap doesn't fit the Elzetta. It does, however, fit the MD2. This would lead me to guess the Elzetta tailcaps aren't compatible with the MD2.


----------



## AardvarkSagus

kaichu dento said:


> This endorsement seals it for me. I don't know if I'll keep it once I get one, but I'm definitely going to get me an Elzetta!


Wow, glad I could help you out on that one. Tell them I said hi while you're at it.


----------



## kaichu dento

AardvarkSagus said:


> Wow, glad I could help you out on that one. Tell them I said hi while you're at it.


Apparently the ZFL-M60-LS2D is the one I'm interested in!


----------



## Slumber

kaichu dento said:


> Apparently the ZFL-M60-LS2D is the one I'm interested in!



Be sure to check out run4jc's review in the review section. He did a good run through of the light.


----------



## kaichu dento

Slumber Pass said:


> Be sure to check out run4jc's review in the review section. He did a good run through of the light.


Thanks for the heads up - going there right now...


----------



## greatscoot

Slumber Pass said:


> I don't have one to try, but someone posted that the Moddoo Triad tailcap doesn't fit the Elzetta. It does, however, fit the MD2. This would lead me to guess the Elzetta tailcaps aren't compatible with the MD2.



just tried my Elzetta tailcap on my SF. It threads on but is shallower and does not thread on all the way.


----------



## xcel730

Elzetta owners, 

I'm reviving this old thread becaues I'm interested in picking an Elzetta up. Since I already have a few Malkoff drop-ins, I am going to purchase the host seperately. 

My question, does the bezel come with a lens? From Elzetta's website FAQ, it appears that you don't need a lens since Malkoff drop-ins are already covered, but wouldn't water get inside the body? It seems like Gene sells the lens and gasket here: http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m61-lens-and-head-gasket-p-83.html. Do I need this? I would rather not have to pay an extra $8 in shipping just to get the lens. 

Thanks


----------



## twl

If it comes with a M60 in it, then it doesn't have a lens because the M60 doesn't need one. 
The M61 and other reflector modules DO need one, and you will need to get it if you get a different module than the M60.
I'd bet that Elzetta has the lens and o-ring in their parts section. If you don't see it, try calling or emailing them.

Or you can wait until you decide to try a different module than the M60, and order the lens and o-ring at that time.


----------



## xcel730

Ah, I see. I've been out of CPF for so long, I didn't even know Malkoff M60 became M61 and no longer have the lens cover on the drop in module.

I still have one of my older M60WL drop in, so I'm set without the lens and gasket for now. 

Thanks for the quick response.


----------



## BenChiew

Can elzetta take the other Malkoff drop in other than the M60 variant?
Can it take an external lens?


----------



## twl

Benchiew said:


> Can elzetta take the other Malkoff drop in other than the M60 variant?
> Can it take an external lens?



Yes it can take any Malkoff drop in. However, the M91 requires 3 cells, so if you plan to use the M91, get the 3-cell body for the Elzetta.
It can take the Malkoff lens that goes on the M61 and the other Malkoff drop-ins that have reflectors.
They just don't put the lens on the M60 because it doesn't need it.


----------



## tobrien

how's the strobe on them? disorienting? or too fast to be any threat to a suspect?


----------



## twl

tobrien said:


> how's the strobe on them? disorienting? or too fast to be any threat to a suspect?



I have never seen the strobe.
I have the hi/lo tailcap.


----------



## BenChiew

I have the 3 cell Elzetta and have found that if using a non lens module, you can just get the lens from Malkoff. It is the same as that used in the MD2 and the VME heads. The lens sits recessed into the drop in and it is not model specific.

Other than the M60 range, can the M61 take a 3 cell setup?


----------



## twl

Benchiew said:


> I have the 3 cell Elzetta and have found that if using a non lens module, you can just get the lens from Malkoff. It is the same as that used in the MD2 and the VME heads. The lens sits recessed into the drop in and it is not model specific.
> 
> Other than the M60 range, can the M61 take a 3 cell setup?



Yes, the M61 can take a 3-cell set-up, as long as it's 3 primary CR123 batteries for a total of 9v. I don't think it can take the 12.6v of 3 rcr123 batteries with 4.2v each.
And the M91 requires 3 cells, or some combination that fits in there and gives between 7-9v. Three primary CR123 would be the expected battery load for the M91 in an Elzetta 3-cell.

The Elzetta is not bored for 18xxx size li-ion rechargeables because it is rated to be a weaponlight which might see heavy recoil, and that recoil might damage the protective circuitry in the protected li-ion rechargeable batteries. So, for safety and reliability in the weaponlight role, they do not bore the bodies for those li-ion 18xxx size cells, and specify primary CR123 cells as the normal load.


----------



## BenChiew

How about 3x rcr123 3.2 v LiFePo battery? The voltage should dip dramatically under load. Would M61 take it?


----------



## twl

Benchiew said:


> How about 3x rcr123 3.2 v LiFePo battery? The voltage should dip dramatically under load. Would M61 take it?



I never tried it.
You might ask Gene to see what he says about it.


----------



## fyrstormer

I wonder why the M61 doesn't just come with a lense epoxied in-place, since it needs a lense anyway.


----------



## twl

fyrstormer said:


> I wonder why the M61 doesn't just come with a lense epoxied in-place, since it needs a lense anyway.



Good question!
My only guess is that since it's glass, it makes for easier replacement with just the o-ring fitment if it got accidentally broken.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Or bc you don't need a lens when a M61 is used in a 6P, what is was designed for.


----------



## fyrstormer

You wouldn't need a built-in lense in that case, no, but it wouldn't hurt to have it permanently installed either. So you'd have duplicate lenses, big deal. As for the concern regarding accidental breakage, that same concern applies to the M60 as well. I'm curious, has anyone ever broken a Malkoff drop-in?


----------



## BenChiew

Perhaps Gene could let us in on the rationale as to why no fix lens from M61 onwards.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Benchiew said:


> Perhaps Gene could let us in on the rationale as to why no fix lens from M61 onwards.



See post 149.


----------



## BenChiew

Perhaps. But many people like his flood optics. At least he should retain that. 
More reason for nuts like me to buy another drop in.


----------



## Mikeg23

fyrstormer said:


> Question: Does anyone know whether the two-mode switch inside the Elzetta tailcap can be removed and fitted into a Surefire tailcap? I have no use for an Elzetta, but if their switch module can be fitted into a Surefire tailcap, I might just have use for the switch and a Malkoff drop-in.



It doesn't look like your question was answered in this thread...http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343482-Fun-with-Elzetta-hi-low-and-SF6P-host


----------



## fyrstormer

Yeah, I saw that thread. I asked here a long time ago, though. I forgot about this thread in the meantime.


----------



## fyrstormer

Benchiew said:


> Perhaps. But many people like his flood optics. At least he should retain that.
> More reason for nuts like me to buy another drop in.


I agree. I recently bought two of the M60F modules because I needed floody lights for my bikes. The higher efficiency and brightness from the M61 would be nice, but I don't want a spot beam as a headlight.


----------



## BenChiew

I am on the hunt for the M60xx drop ins. 
Only have the M60,M60N and M60NF. All because of the optics.
Btw, can we buy after market optics and attach it to M61 type drop ins. 

These are great drop ins to put into the Elzetta 3 cell as it handle 9v.


----------



## Mikeg23

Benchiew said:


> Btw, can we buy after market optics and attach it to M61 type drop ins.



Arek98 mentioned something like this in post number 37 of the linked thread and I asked about it in post 59 but no response. Granted its for the opposite reason being discussed here but still the same principal.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?341712-Searching-For-a-Light-(High-CRI-Thrower)


----------



## Raptor Factor

Has anyone put in the Malkoff M61SHO (XP-G2) unit with the acrylic lens and gasket? It says 450 lumens with 350 feet of throw has anyone done beam shots/ candella ratings? Or the M91A (750 Lumen XML). What are these like and what P60 style drop-in has the highest throw (candella would be helpful). Thanks, Raptorfactor.


----------



## twl

Raptor Factor said:


> Has anyone put in the Malkoff M61SHO (XP-G2) unit with the acrylic lens and gasket? It says 450 lumens with 350 feet of throw has anyone done beam shots/ candella ratings? Or the M91A (750 Lumen XML). What are these like and what P60 style drop-in has the highest throw (candella would be helpful). Thanks, Raptorfactor.




The M61SHO is reported to have similar lux(throw) as the M60, which in my usage can throw 150 yards with enough light to identify a target at that distance. It(M60) will light up a reflective stop sign at a longer distance, but for real world use, it's good to about 150 yards. 450 feet.

Since the M61SHO has about the same lux(5000-6000 lux) at beam center, it should throw about the same as the M60, but the M61SHO will have more spill.

I haven't heard any reports on lux measurements on the M91 or M91A. Being that the XML is a larger LED in the same P60 reflector size, I think it will end up with mostly more flood brightness, and the M91A may have some throw close to the M61SHO just on brute lumen-output alone. But I think the M61SHO and M60 will still be likely to out-throw the M91A by some amount.

If you are looking primarily for a relatively narrow beam throw, the M60 does great for that. The rest just give more floody spill.


----------



## Raptor Factor

ok thanks, so the M60 Won't have nearly as much throw as the surefire lx2 though right?


----------



## twl

Raptor Factor said:


> ok thanks, so the M60 Won't have nearly as much throw as the surefire lx2 though right?



LX2 should have more throw, by probably about 25-40 yards more than the M60.
The LX2 is stated by some people to be around 9000 lux in beam center.

I don't buy SureFire products, so I have never actually done any comparison.


----------



## fyrstormer

So, after experiencing the Malkoff M60F in my bicycle headlights, I decided to get one that I could fiddle with when I wasn't riding. Since I was also interested in Elzettas but never had a reasonable excuse to get one, I took the opportunity to get a 2-cell Elzetta with a crenelated bezel, two-mode switch, and M60F drop-in.

This thing is a beast. I've used flashlights before that people have described as "asking for abuse", but this one really IS asking for abuse. Elzetta demonstrated it's strength by using it to hammer nails into wood, and the specimen I received is so overbuilt it's hard to resist the temptation to bang it against stuff just to see how little damage it would suffer. The only place I've ever seen anodizing this good is on a TADgear "Life Capsule", which turned out to be mostly useless to me, but it was made by a shop that also makes F-22 parts, and it showed. The anodizing on the Elzetta is better than the anodizing on the Arc6, and I never thought I'd see better than Arc6 anodizing in a consumer product.

I also like the ergonomics of the Elzetta. It's got a nice thick body that's easy to hold onto, and the head is at once familiar (since it's almost a P60) yet intriguingly different (because it's designed to fit Malkoff modules perfectly).

This is the light that Surefire would've made, if they were *really* serious about making the ultimate tactical light. It's begging to be strapped to an assault rifle and carried into combat.


----------



## twl

fyrstormer said:


> So, after experiencing the Malkoff M60F in my bicycle headlights, I decided to get one that I could fiddle with when I wasn't riding. Since I was also interested in Elzettas but never had a reasonable excuse to get one, I took the opportunity to get a 2-cell Elzetta with a crenelated bezel, two-mode switch, and M60F drop-in.
> 
> This thing is a beast. I've used flashlights before that people have described as "asking for abuse", but this one really IS asking for abuse. Elzetta demonstrated it's strength by using it to hammer nails into wood, and the specimen I received is so overbuilt it's hard to resist the temptation to bang it against stuff just to see how little damage it would suffer. The only place I've ever seen anodizing this good is on a TADgear "Life Capsule", which turned out to be mostly useless to me, but it was made by a shop that also makes F-22 parts, and it showed. The anodizing on the Elzetta is better than the anodizing on the Arc6, and I never thought I'd see better than Arc6 anodizing in a consumer product.
> 
> I also like the ergonomics of the Elzetta. It's got a nice thick body that's easy to hold onto, and the head is at once familiar (since it's almost a P60) yet intriguingly different (because it's designed to fit Malkoff modules perfectly).
> 
> This is the light that Surefire would've made, if they were *really* serious about making the ultimate tactical light. It's begging to be strapped to an assault rifle and carried into combat.



I totally agree.
I think that Elzetta is the toughest light made, by a wide margin.
I wrote a post about it when I first got mine, and I said, "I feel like I could throw this light against the wall as hard as I can, and it wouldn't break.". I haven't tried that, but it really IS so tough that it probably would take it. I just don't intentionally abuse my lights like that. The light feels like it's a solid bar of metal. I have never felt or seen any other flashlight like it.
And you're spot-on with the comment about the anodizing. It's as good as it possibly can get, and it's virtually a perfect match for a Colt AR15 anodized finish.

I have the 3-cell Elzetta with crenelated bezel and Hi/Lo tailswitch.


----------



## tobrien

fyrstormer said:


> So, after experiencing the Malkoff M60F in my bicycle headlights, I decided to get one that I could fiddle with when I wasn't riding. Since I was also interested in Elzettas but never had a reasonable excuse to get one, I took the opportunity to get a 2-cell Elzetta with a crenelated bezel, two-mode switch, and M60F drop-in.
> 
> This thing is a beast. I've used flashlights before that people have described as "asking for abuse", but this one really IS asking for abuse. Elzetta demonstrated it's strength by using it to hammer nails into wood, and the specimen I received is so overbuilt it's hard to resist the temptation to bang it against stuff just to see how little damage it would suffer. The only place I've ever seen anodizing this good is on a TADgear "Life Capsule", which turned out to be mostly useless to me, but it was made by a shop that also makes F-22 parts, and it showed. The anodizing on the Elzetta is better than the anodizing on the Arc6, and I never thought I'd see better than Arc6 anodizing in a consumer product.
> 
> I also like the ergonomics of the Elzetta. It's got a nice thick body that's easy to hold onto, and the head is at once familiar (since it's almost a P60) yet intriguingly different (because it's designed to fit Malkoff modules perfectly).
> 
> This is the light that Surefire would've made, if they were *really* serious about making the ultimate tactical light. It's begging to be strapped to an assault rifle and carried into combat.



nice, thanks for the review! I gotta get one haha


----------



## LAB

Overbuilt, low lumens, expensive, kinda ugly. What's to like about these lights? OK, made in the USA.


----------



## fyrstormer

LAB said:


> Overbuilt, low lumens, expensive, kinda ugly. What's to like about these lights? OK, made in the USA.


Strong and durable - GOOD
Honest ratings - GOOD
High quality - GOOD
Aggressive design - GOOD
Made in the USA - GOOD

Seems to me like you hit all the highlights, actually.


----------



## Mikeg23

LAB said:


> Overbuilt, low lumens, expensive, kinda ugly. What's to like about these lights? OK, made in the USA.



Overbuilt isn't a bad thing, they will accept any of the Malkoff dropins so that's hardly low lumens, they are a bit expensive but not crazy $100 for an empty host is doable. They are kind of ugly though.


----------



## LAB

Thank You for your honest replies. I'm not enlightened yet.


----------



## fyrstormer

The best way I can describe it is, there's something reassuring about ANY tool that feels like you could use it to dig your way out of a collapsed building.

I'm not seeing the "ugly" factor. Before I had a reason to want a Malkoff module, and before I realized the Elzetta two-mode switch is actually a clicky and not a twisty, the appearance was the only reason I kept circling back to look at the Elzetta website.

Here are some photos I took, of what I think are the Elzetta's "good angles":
































The build quality and the interfaces between the parts are phenomenal. The inside of the head is even treated with anti-seize to keep the module from getting stuck if you over-tighten the bezel; that's how well everything fits together.

I like the pointy bits on the sides of the head; if you don't, there's a low-profile bezel available that's almost perfectly cylindrical.


----------



## P_A_S_1

I like this light and was close to pulling the trigger on it a while ago but never did. IMO they are overpriced and the emitter is a little dated. There is no 'lock out' tail cap option and no clip option. As much as I like it and wanted to make it my new duty light I felt for $200 it was too much to spend and not have the latest emitter in the optic. I like the build quality but to be honest the last 'bomb proof' light I brought died after two years of normal use so I'm a bit skeptical about such claims but who knows, maybe this one really is. As for it's appearance I like it, reminds me of a light I had a long time ago.


----------



## fyrstormer

The two-mode tailcap *does* lock out; I don't know about the other tailcaps, but there hasn't been any indication that the threading inside the other tailcaps is non-anodized.

It's a modular light; the emitter is as up-to-date as you want to pay for. Malkoff doesn't release new modules every time a new bin is released, but their newest module uses the XP-G2 emitter, so it's not exactly fire-on-a-stick. Even the XR-E emitters in the older modules are plenty good at producing the rated amount of light.

I concede the point regarding a clip. A good bezel-down clip, bolted to the body, would be very nice to have.


----------



## twl

P_A_S_1 said:


> I like this light and was close to pulling the trigger on it a while ago but never did. IMO they are overpriced and the emitter is a little dated. There is no 'lock out' tail cap option and no clip option. As much as I like it and wanted to make it my new duty light I felt for $200 it was too much to spend and not have the latest emitter in the optic. I like the build quality but to be honest the last 'bomb proof' light I brought died after two years of normal use so I'm a bit skeptical about such claims but who knows, maybe this one really is. As for it's appearance I like it, reminds me of a light I had a long time ago.



Dark Sucks(Prometheus Lights) has a titanium clip that fits it. It has a ring mount that completely encircles the body(you need to take off the tailcap to install it), which cannot fall off.

The Malkoff drop-ins which are VERY easily interchangeable(hence the name "drop-in") will work in the Elzetta(some require the 3-cell body). The M60 drop-in that comes in it is an XRE with a TIR optic, which has good application in this type of light, since all the "latest emitters" are bigger and are sadly lacking in throw from this size light platform. The newest XPG2 finally can match the XRE throw from the P60 size platform, at shorter runtimes and higher lumens. The M60 is actually a legend in its own time. Fully potted electronics, and fully capable of withstanding recoil in a weaponlight application or just plain shock in hard use.
The Malkoff drop-ins are available which have all the latest emitters. Because what good is the latest emitter, if it's just stuck in some crappy Chinese light?
XML? XPG2? XPG? Nichia 219 HCRI? XPG Warm? XPG Neutral? They are ALL available in Malkoff drop-ins, and you can change them in and out for versatility in less than a minute.
Want 750 lumens OTF? Just get the 3-cell Elzetta, and drop a Malkoff M91A into it. 450 Lumens? Drop a Malkoff M61SHO in.

I just checked my Elzetta for taiilcap lock-out, and if you unscrew the tailcap 2/3 of a rotation, it's locked out. I never use that function, so I had to check it.

The "bomb proof light" you had wasn't an Elzetta, or you'd still have it.

I like the looks of it too. And it even starts looking better when you see what a combination of legendary Malkoff light engines,, teamed-up with the most rugged flashlight host on planet Earth, can do.


----------



## P_A_S_1

twl said:


> The "bomb proof light" you had wasn't an Elzetta, or you'd still have it.



No it wasn't, it was an HDS.

As for the lock out, it's not an advertised feature and one of the many reviews I read when I was researching the light pointed out the lack of as it's one draw back. If it actually has it now that's great, another plus.

As for the various drops in, I agree they're great options, but I was referring to the OEM optics from Elzetta. If they're still the best in class overall well then that's fine I just thought after 4 years they would have a better bin with more lumens or improved runtime.

Cost remains a sticking point though, all added up it's pricey, but I still like it. The fact that it has the lock out feature makes it that much more appealing. Really like the two cell flood model.


----------



## twl

P_A_S_1 said:


> No it wasn't, it was an HDS.
> 
> As for the lock out, it's not an advertised feature and one of the many reviews I read when I was researching the light pointed out the lack of as it's one draw back. If it actually has it now that's great, another plus.
> 
> As for the various drops in, I agree they're great options, but I was referring to the OEM optics from Elzetta. If they're still the best in class overall well then that's fine I just thought after 4 years they would have a better bin with more lumens or improved runtime.
> 
> Cost remains a sticking point though, all added up it's pricey, but I still like it. The fact that it has the lock out feature makes it that much more appealing. Really like the two cell flood model.



I understand the concern with the M60 and its XRE emitter. This is not the latest emitter.
However, it is a smaller die-size emitter, which creates a better throw distance from the small size reflector in the P60 drop-in, than can be had from the latest emitters which have larger die-size.
So, for the lumen output that the XRE provides, it gives further throw distance than many emitters of higher output, in the P60 size platform.
Throw may not be the only important thing, but it is somewhat important in tactical and LE applications, and that's why the Malkoff M60 became one of the most highly regarded law enforcement lights around. It was designed for law enforcement, and it is widely used by officers. Gene Malkoff caters heavily to the LE market.

However, the joint venture with Elzetta yielded the sale of the M60 rights to Elzetta, and Gene moved on to other modules and lights which he sells on his website.
So, this is why the Elzetta "turnkey" lights come with the M60, because they own that module design now. But if you don't want that module, you can buy the parts for the body from Elzetta, and put one of Gene's other modules in there, with any of the latest emitters that he has out now. And right now, he's on the cutting edge with modules equipped with the latest XPG2 emitters and also with XML emitters, and he offers warm or cool tint options in the still-available XPG emitters like the M61 module, and there have been special runs made for Nichia 219 HCRI modules.
All of these have different beam and power and run-time characteristics, and can be inserted into the light body for the application preferred by the user.

One of the issues with the Elzetta host body is that it is bored for primary CR123 batteries, which hold up more reliably under recoil in weaponlight applications. They are not bored for the 18mm size lithium-ion rechargable batteries. But, the Malkoff bodies available from Gene are bored for those sizes, so if that is an issue you can look at Gene's MD2/3/4 hosts for that.

I have both. I have an Elzetta 3-cell with Hi/Lo tailswitch, and I have several Malkoff lights.
Essentially, the Elzetta is a Malkoff light engine with a super heavy duty body. The Malkoff bodies themselves are also very heavy duty and no-nonsense too. I think the Elzetta is a bit more bomb-proof.
I'm not sure what switch Elzetta uses, but it has excellent tactile feel, and is nearly silent in operation. A very good tactical switch. And it is very predictable, so you know exactly when it is going to come on and off with the same amount of push every time, and it doesn't make any loud noises. The Malkoff lights use the highly-regarded McClicky switch.

If you want to use the Malkoff XML modules in the Elzetta, you need to get the 3-cell body because the voltage range for that Malkoff M91/M91A series needs to have 3 primary CR123 cells in the Elzetta to run it properly. The others will run in the Elzetta 2-cell model.

If you want more throw or a lot of flood, check out the dedicated lights from Malkoff on his site, the Hound Dog and the Wildcat. The Wildcat is a triple-emitter XPG2 light with 1350 out-the-front lumens at turn on, and it stabilizes after warming up at 1150 lumens without any further sag or stepping down. Malkoff lights really emphasize thermal management. The Hound Dog XML is an XML thrower with about 250 yards of throw, with a very nice wide spill. These lights have larger heads with 1.8" diameter. They are my favorites.

You can call Gene and talk to him about your needs. As I said, he is big in law enforcement circles, and he caters to officers and their needs.


----------



## fyrstormer

P_A_S_1 said:


> As for the various drops in, I agree they're great options, but I was referring to the OEM optics from Elzetta. If they're still the best in class overall well then that's fine I just thought after 4 years they would have a better bin with more lumens or improved runtime.


The OEM optics ARE Malkoff drop-ins. You can't buy a complete Elzetta flashlight with anything other than a Malkoff drop-in.


----------



## Mikeg23

I think when he says OEM he is talking about what the complete light comes with... On Elzettas website if you want to buy a complete light you are limited to the M60 or the M60F it would appear. However as someone stated much earlier in this thread you can in fact just buy the host.


----------



## fyrstormer

You can order all the parts for a complete light, including a Malkoff M61 drop-in. I suppose having to assemble those parts does disqualify it from being a "complete light", but seriously, you put the module into the battery tube, and then screw on the tailcap and bezel. It's not exactly a bar of raw aluminum and a blueprint.


----------



## P_A_S_1

fyrstormer said:


> The OEM optics ARE Malkoff drop-ins. You can't buy a complete Elzetta flashlight with anything other than a Malkoff drop-in.



I know, to clarify I was referring to the Malkoff drop-ins that are available from Elzetta only, the ones with the optics.


fyrstormer,

I see you have the Flood optic, that's the drop-in I'm particularly interested in. How do you find it to work for you? Pros/cons?


----------



## fyrstormer

Pro: Smooth wall of light.
Con: Not very throwy.

It works well for indoor use, and for short-range outdoor use. It won't reach the woods if you hear a crunching noise while you're taking out the garbage, though. I plan to keep it because I don't have anything else like it.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Ok, thanks. I was curious if you thought it was bright enough for its intended purpose, close range, being the light is so diffused.


----------



## tab665

this thread had me drooling over the elzettas a good half year ago or so. luckily i fought the urge, didnt get one, and happily continued living my life. WHY WAS THIS THREAD BUMPED!!??
quick question for elzetta owners. if you have used other reflectored malkoff drop-ins, how is the the water resistance with the optional lens and oring?


----------



## twl

tab665 said:


> this thread had me drooling over the elzettas a good half year ago or so. luckily i fought the urge, didnt get one, and happily continued living my life. WHY WAS THIS THREAD BUMPED!!??
> quick question for elzetta owners. if you have used other reflectored malkoff drop-ins, how is the the water resistance with the optional lens and oring?



I haven't tried it with the reflectored drop-ins, but I see no reason why the water resistance would be affected. It's all o-ringed.

Anyway, I feel your pain about getting the urge for the Elzetta.
Once you give in, you're ruined for most other lights, except for other Malkoffs.
After I gave in at first, I had to sell all my Chinese lights because nothing else could compare. Now the only Chinese lights I have left are some super low cost ones that were too cheap to sell.


----------



## fyrstormer

There's an O-ring in front of the lense and a flat gasket behind the lense. Nothing should be able to sneak through unless you take it scuba-diving, and even then it might be safe.


----------



## fyrstormer

Apropos of nothing...I degreased my Elzetta this evening and replaced the white lithium grease with CRC wheel bearing grease. As on all my aluminum lights, that stuff is magic on threads. Everything twists smooth as butter now.


----------



## TweakMDS

Every time I read this thread title, I think: if your brand is the industry's best kept secret, you have some serious marketing issues...
Look like some very nice lights, although I'm not so sure about the aesthetics. I was peeking around here, but they're nowhere to be bought in the Netherlands. Then again they seem to be quite active as weapon lights, and that's simply not a market here.


----------



## leon2245

LAB said:


> Overbuilt, low lumens, expensive, kinda ugly. What's to like about these lights? OK, made in the USA.



You had me at overbuilt & low lumens!!


----------



## fyrstormer

TweakMDS said:


> Every time I read this thread title, I think: if your brand is the industry's best kept secret, you have some serious marketing issues...
> Look like some very nice lights, although I'm not so sure about the aesthetics. I was peeking around here, but they're nowhere to be bought in the Netherlands. Then again they seem to be quite active as weapon lights, and that's simply not a market here.


Depends on their goals. In a world with 6 billion people, there is plenty of room for small brands. Capitalist culture has taught us to assume that a business isn't doing well if it isn't growing, but if a group of people spend their lives making good products that others are happy to buy, they are successful. They won't replace my titanium lights because I love titanium, but frankly, I'm amazed to find an aluminum light that gives my titanium lights a run for their money. I never thought I'd find one that good.

I'm pretty sure Elzetta ships worldwide, by the way.


----------



## Slumber

leon2245 said:


> You had me at overbuilt & low lumens!!



Haha, he didn't even get to mention "available single mode option and long runtimes while running an L or LL drop-ins."

Edit to add pics: Elzetta 1 = Cren Bezel, Rotary Tail Cap, M60L; Elzetta 2 = LowPro Bezel, Hi-Lo Tail Cap, M60LL; HDS E1S-170


----------



## twl

BTW, the Low setting on the Hi/Low switch version gives about 15-20 lumens with the M60, which is great for general walking around use.
And the run time with the Low setting on a 2-cell model is over 40 hours, and it's over 60 hours run-time on a 3-cell model.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

I like the look of the low profile head... the pics on the website make it tough to see what they look like, but the shots in this thread make them look like they would be great looking in real life.

Did anyone notice the Limited Edition green ones on their website?


----------



## twl

fresh eddie fresh said:


> I like the look of the low profile head... the pics on the website make it tough to see what they look like, but the shots in this thread make them look like they would be great looking in real life.
> 
> Did anyone notice the Limited Edition green ones on their website?



I like the normal head shape, and I have the one with the crenelations on it.
But the low profile head would be slimmer to put in your pants pocket, and I like that fine too.

With my 3-cell model, I just slip the longer body down into my jeans pocket, and leave the head sticking out so that I can easily get the light out of my pocket.
I find that easier than trying to put the whole thing down into the pocket, because my jeans fit fairly tight.
It stay put real well there until I need it.


----------



## fyrstormer

I can see how the low-profile head would be easier to carry in-pocket, but I have other lights I carry in-pocket already; my Elzetta is for in-hand use. I went with the crenelated bezel because it's handy to be able to tell if I've set the light down while still turned-on.


----------



## jellydonut

I don't know if I just missed this or if it's really new, but it's news to me.

http://www.elzetta.com/webpages/order_online.htm

Elzetta lights are available for a limited time in OD green Type III hard anodizing.


----------



## tobrien

jellydonut said:


> I don't know if I just missed this or if it's really new, but it's news to me.
> 
> http://www.elzetta.com/webpages/order_online.htm
> 
> Elzetta lights are available for a limited time in OD green Type III hard anodizing.



thats for that pointer, i had no idea


----------



## BenChiew

I recently saw a limited edition Elzetta in polished alu being sold at eBay. Sold for something like $350.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

It was blk chrome. Whoever got it can thank me for the last minute $$$ increase. :devil:


----------



## RI Chevy

Said $305.01. There is an article on survivalistboards.com. With a link to the Ebay add. Not sure if you can post the link or not.


----------



## Raptor Factor

I would be more interested in purchasing one if there was a Malkoff XP-G2 or XM-L drop-in that had a TIR lens like the M60. The reflector drop-ins are just too floody.


----------



## Raptor Factor

Or can you just buy an optic to put in an M61/M91 Drop-in? That wouldn't make sense, nm.


----------



## Mikeg23

Benchiew said:


> I am on the hunt for the M60xx drop ins.
> Only have the M60,M60N and M60NF. All because of the optics.
> Btw, can we buy after market optics and attach it to M61 type drop ins.
> 
> These are great drop ins to put into the Elzetta 3 cell as it handle 9v.





Mikeg23 said:


> Arek98 mentioned something like this in post number 37 of the linked thread and I asked about it in post 59 but no response. Granted its for the opposite reason being discussed here but still the same principal.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?341712-Searching-For-a-Light-(High-CRI-Thrower)



Edited because I realised I put in the wrong link


----------



## Raptor Factor

But besides a lot of work it's either a M60 or a reflector right?


----------



## twl

Raptor Factor said:


> But besides a lot of work it's either a M60 or a reflector right?



At this time, your conclusion is correct. The M60 series are the only ones with optics on them that will fit properly in the Elzetta.
You might be interested to know that the M60 with the XRE and optic actually have about the same throw as the newest XPG-2 emitter with the reflector in the M61 SHO with 450 lumens.
That's how good the M60 throws its 235 lumens.

My M60 throws a solid 150 yds on a dark night with no streetlights in the area. And it's a relatively narrow beam at ~6 degrees beam angle. Not floody.
If you like a small thrower, the M60 is high on that list. The XRE emitter in that M60 is one of the most famous thrower LEDs ever.

Regarding the reflectors, it's not really that reflectors are so much more floody, but the real meat of the matter is that the newer LEDs are larger, and thus they need a larger reflector to focus down for better throw. That's why these newer emitters don't throw so well in the P60 drop-ins. They just throw as far as they can from brute output level, and it spills all over. Luckily, a lot of people like the floodier beams.


----------



## ganymede

PoliceScannerMan said:


> It was blk chrome. Whoever got it can thank me for the last minute $$$ increase. :devil:



So, it was you! :devil::devil::devil:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

ganymede said:


> So, it was you! :devil::devil::devil:



Uhhh yep! 

Hit me up if u ever sell it. Or trade. :naughty:


----------



## Diablo_331

I wonder if Elzetta has any plans on offering the new XPE2 in their M60s.


----------



## BIGLOU

I wanted to bump this thread and also ask who ever has bored out a ZFL-M60 to accept 18650s to let me know how much to bore off. I know there is something to do with the switch, dont want to bore off too much and have contact problems. I was thinking off boring it from the head end and stop a couple mm from the tail end (leave a lip), which would mean loading the battery from the head end like a SF E-series. Let me know Thanks! Getting ready to ship mine out to the machine shop. I did search but I did not find anything just other people asking if anyone has done it. Will post photos as soon as I'm done.


----------



## flashy bazook

This may not be what you want to hear, but boring the Elzetta doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

What the Elzetta gives is a kind of bomb-proof quality, toughness, solidity, water-proofness, and tactical use.

Boring it just weakens it along all of these dimensions. If you really want a 1x18650 flashlight, get that! Either already made, or maybe putting together one from components (Leef battery tube if you can find one, etc.), or even boring out one of the Surefires.

Plus, it's a very expensive way to get a 1x18650 light! The Elzetta base price is already $195! You can get a Surefire C2 bored for less, especially if you get it used (which you should, since you will be voiding the warranty by boring it).

Sometimes imagination gets the better of us. Get the Elzetta and run it using either two primaries or two rechargeables, for the tactical uses it is intended for you get enough runtime. It is not a runtime type of light anyways.

One more thing, you will get the M60 with the Elzetta, which needs two batteries. To use just one, you will need yet another drop-in! And if you get, for example, the M31, you will then ALSO need to buy a lens! (the M60 has a lens, the M31 does not).

Are you sure all of this makes sense?


----------



## FPSRelic

flashy bazook said:


> This may not be what you want to hear, but boring the Elzetta doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
> 
> What the Elzetta gives is a kind of bomb-proof quality, toughness, solidity, water-proofness, and tactical use.
> 
> Boring it just weakens it along all of these dimensions. If you really want a 1x18650 flashlight, get that! Either already made, or maybe putting together one from components (Leef battery tube if you can find one, etc.), or even boring out one of the Surefires.
> 
> Plus, it's a very expensive way to get a 1x18650 light! The Elzetta base price is already $195! You can get a Surefire C2 bored for less, especially if you get it used (which you should, since you will be voiding the warranty by boring it).
> 
> Sometimes imagination gets the better of us. Get the Elzetta and run it using either two primaries or two rechargeables, for the tactical uses it is intended for you get enough runtime. It is not a runtime type of light anyways.
> 
> One more thing, you will get the M60 with the Elzetta, which needs two batteries. To use just one, you will need yet another drop-in! And if you get, for example, the M31, you will then ALSO need to buy a lens! (the M60 has a lens, the M31 does not).
> 
> Are you sure all of this makes sense?



Since when does the M60 _need 2 cells? My understanding is that it runs happily on one cell out of regulation. At least, that's what my M61 does._


----------



## GeoBruin

The M60 drops out of regulation earlier than the M61. 3.4 volts vs 3.8 volts or something like that.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Dont try a M31 on a single 18650.


----------



## RI Chevy

Definitely no 18650's for an M31. An M31 is only rated for .8 to 3.3 volts. Any single Lion will burn this drop in right up. An M61 is rated for 3.4 to 9 volts. Maybe you meant M61?


----------



## flashy bazook

Oops -- thanks for catching the error!

I was thinking of the M30 actually, which according to my notes goes up to 5.5 volts. I forgot that the M31 changed also the voltage range from the M30.

In fact I have a 1x18650 flashlight built with the M30 and it is one great combination! It works great and no kaboom!

It is a bit of a problem to keep track of all the voltage variations, especially since discontinued products have their webpages removed from malkoff devices. That's why I started keeping notes, but then of course forgot to check what the notes said...

Still, I think that the M60 is indeed intended to be used mainly with 2 cells for optimal use, and the M3* for 1 cell, though apparently the M31 can no longer use a Li-Ion: so basically the M31 is intended to be used with 2xAA's when not used with 1x123 primary, which is how I use it.

So, to summarize, if you want to use a 1x18650 it is an interesting question which Malkoff drop-in is best. In my opinion, the M30 is best as you get constant current regulation just as you would in the M60 with 2 cells, but the M30 gets the regulation while being optimized for 1 cell. Of course, with the M30 out of production, you then have something of a dilemma! Personally I bought extra M30's so I don't have to face the dilemma for a long while, given the excellent lifespan of these products.


----------



## twl

flashy bazook said:


> Oops -- thanks for catching the error!
> 
> I was thinking of the M30 actually, which according to my notes goes up to 5.5 volts. I forgot that the M31 changed also the voltage range from the M30.
> 
> In fact I have a 1x18650 flashlight built with the M30 and it is one great combination! It works great and no kaboom!
> 
> It is a bit of a problem to keep track of all the voltage variations, especially since discontinued products have their webpages removed from malkoff devices. That's why I started keeping notes, but then of course forgot to check what the notes said...
> 
> Still, I think that the M60 is indeed intended to be used mainly with 2 cells for optimal use, and the M3* for 1 cell, though apparently the M31 can no longer use a Li-Ion: so basically the M31 is intended to be used with 2xAA's when not used with 1x123 primary, which is how I use it.
> 
> So, to summarize, if you want to use a 1x18650 it is an interesting question which Malkoff drop-in is best. In my opinion, the M30 is best as you get constant current regulation just as you would in the M60 with 2 cells, but the M30 gets the regulation while being optimized for 1 cell. Of course, with the M30 out of production, you then have something of a dilemma! Personally I bought extra M30's so I don't have to face the dilemma for a long while, given the excellent lifespan of these products.



The question about which Malkoff drop-in(of the currently available line) is "best" for one-cell operation is a very interesting one.
I personally think it would be the M61, but I really surmise that Gene has moved away from one-cell operation, and has optimized all of his lights for 9v operation. Either 3 primaries or 2 li-ion cells. Some of the drop-ins are nice with 2 primaries, and ones such as the M61 still do very well on a single li-ion, but don't maintain regulation long with the single cell.
I would say that this trend means that Gene has moved away from one-cell operation, and is optimizing for higher voltage. I have not read any quotes where Gene says this, but I'd say it is apparent from the trend.


----------



## flashy bazook

twl said:


> The question about which Malkoff drop-in(of the currently available line) is "best" for one-cell operation is a very interesting one.
> I personally think it would be the M61, but I really surmise that Gene has moved away from one-cell operation, and has optimized all of his lights for 9v operation. Either 3 primaries or 2 li-ion cells. Some of the drop-ins are nice with 2 primaries, and ones such as the M61 still do very well on a single li-ion, but don't maintain regulation long with the single cell.
> I would say that this trend means that Gene has moved away from one-cell operation, and is optimizing for higher voltage. I have not read any quotes where Gene says this, but I'd say it is apparent from the trend.



Very interesting insights!

I think Gene has been great in following what the customer wants. Another factor must be the technical characteristics of the LED's/emitters. They can give great outputs now, plus good runtimes, but perhaps better so at the higher voltage ranges.

As I recall the discussions around the introduction of the M30, a lot of people liked the versatility but also saw the possibility of a truly universal product in terms of being able to use both the 123 and the AA batteries.

So the M31 came out and it was deservedly successful. I have several M31 types, including some in 1x123 formats and some in 2xAA and even 3xAAA.

But, my M30's I keep for the 1x18650 format.

For the M61 and M91 I personally run them in a 2x18650 and in a 3x18650 format respectively, which gives great runtimes to match their great output. But I wouldn't think to use the M61 in a 1x18650 format, as I don't want to lose the regulation.

You are right that somehow through all these developments, the 1x18650 format has fallen a bit behind, and there hasn't been a recent offering to take advantage. This is something to regret, because the AW, Panasonic, etc., battery offerings have continued to increase their capacity and now you can get almost twice the 123 primary capacity in the 1x18650, with a higher voltage.

I am sure that if there was an appropriate LED, plus customer interest, Gene would come up with something! For now, I hold onto my M30's and am happy I thought ahead to buy several.


----------



## SCD

There is a lot of versatility in the M61. I like to play in the unregulated voltage range to get what I want. For around the house I use either two LSD AA's in a MD3 or a LifePo4 18650 in an MD2. I'm quite fond of the LifePo4 setup and the flat discharge characteristics of said battery will give an "almost" regulated runtime of 3 hours(putting out around 110-130 lumens for the entire run---essentially a M61L)on a M61 and produce a low of a few lumens(hi/low ring) for god knows how long. Fry's was blowing out their K2 Energy line and their 18650's are 1500mah......had to find a way to use them Cycle and calendar life should be tremendous!
From the dimmest usable "moonlight" mode on LSD/Nimh AA's with Hi/Low ring to multiple hours at fully regulated output with multiple 18650's....the versatility of the M61 is only limited by your imagination and maybe a couple extra bodies!


----------



## tobrien

SCD said:


> There is a lot of versatility in the M61. I like to play in the unregulated voltage range to get what I want. For around the house I use either two LSD AA's in a MD3 or a LifePo4 18650 in an MD2. I'm quite fond of the LifePo4 setup and the flat discharge characteristics of said battery will give an "almost" regulated runtime of 3 hours(putting out around 110-130 lumens for the entire run---essentially a M61L)on a M61 and produce a low of a few lumens(hi/low ring) for god knows how long. Fry's was blowing out their K2 Energy line and their 18650's are 1500mah......had to find a way to use them Cycle and calendar life should be tremendous!
> From the dimmest usable "moonlight" mode on LSD/Nimh AA's with Hi/Low ring to multiple hours at fully regulated output with multiple 18650's....the versatility of the M61 is only limited by your imagination and maybe a couple extra bodies!


I loved reading this, I had no idea they were so versatile!


----------



## P_A_S_1

I am using a M61w with the 1x 18650 format and I get 2.5 hours of continues use with good consistant output the entire time. The Malkoff site states the drop in produces 200 lumens at 6 volts (2x cr123) so I have no idea the estimated lumens produced at 3.7-4.19 volts (1x 18650) but to my eyes when switching back and forth between the primaries and the rechargeable I didn't notice much of a difference at all. A noticeable difference in out put was when I ran the light to the 3.5 hour mark using a 18650 (at this point the battery was done and the out put was dimmer). From what I'm seeing with my light and battery, 3 hour max runtime on a single 18650 before out put is noticeably effected.


----------



## TMedina

TweakMDS said:


> Every time I read this thread title, I think: if your brand is the industry's best kept secret, you have some serious marketing issues...
> Look like some very nice lights, although I'm not so sure about the aesthetics. I was peeking around here, but they're nowhere to be bought in the Netherlands. Then again they seem to be quite active as weapon lights, and that's simply not a market here.



It's a hard sell to people used to spending $12.99 for, at best, a [email protected] AA light. By comparison, a 2-cell Elzetta with low-profile bezel and a rotary tailcap is $101, not counting the $69 Malkoff. And this isn't even touching on the CR123 batteries, when most folks still think AA, C, or D. For die-hards like us, or professionals who depend on their equipment, it's easier to make a pitch. 

Elzetta had a brief run at a local camping/outdoor store in Portland last year - I doubt they sold much, if anything. The markets are just radically different. It's the same reason why Surefire doesn't sell well, if at all, to the mainstream public.

About aesthetics, I really didn't like the klingon bezel, but the "low profile" is catching my eye. And the endorsements about the lens/gasket combo have just about sealed the deal for me.


----------



## Mikeg23

I run my M61HCRI on one 18650 I usually top the battery off before it drops out of regulation. 

To me the perfect set up is a light that I can switch back and forth between one lithium ion and one or two lithium primary. The M61 does this better than the other Malkoff offerings. I can use one 18650 or two cr123. 

Though I do wish it was more optimized for 3-6 volts


----------



## fyrstormer

TMedina said:


> About aesthetics, I really didn't like the klingon bezel, but the "low profile" is catching my eye. And the endorsements about the lens/gasket combo have just about sealed the deal for me.


I like the "Klingon" bezel. Pointiness aside, it lets me see if I've set it down with the light on, which is the main function of crenelated bezels in my mind.

The round O-ring that Elzetta uses to seal the front aperture on their lights works very well with the M61 lense; I didn't even bother using the Malkoff-supplied flat gasket. Also, if you want super-durability, the M61 lense is the same size as a McGizmo-style sapphire lense, which you can get at The Sandwich Shoppe.


----------



## twl

I like the Klingon bezel too.


----------



## TMedina

I figured people had to, for the flashlights to be selling - I'm just not one of them.

I've always believed that a Klingon was more gimmick than practical application - I'm not knocking anyone who chooses to believe differently, mind you, but it is a deal breaker for me.


----------



## fyrstormer

It has nothing to do with believing in anything. It has to do with trying it and observing the benefits. Actually, another benefit I just remembered is, a smooth bezel will wobble if you set it on an uneven surface, but a crenelated bezel will settle onto the first three points that solidly contact the object it's sitting on. Again, nothing to do with believing.

I think the crenelated bezel is pointier than it needs to be for my purposes, but it gets the job done and it doesn't snag on anything, so I ignore the slight imperfection of the points being longer than absolutely necessary. I would like if they were more rounded to prevent the anodizing from chipping off, though.


----------



## speedsix

+1

I want the ability to run my 18650s that I can recharge. I have a Surefire weapon light that I only run primary cells in. I have a bunch of 18650s but have to buy CR123s special and I can't be bothered to try to find them. Not all stores carry them and they cost a fortune.


----------



## fyrstormer

It should be possible to have someone bore a 2x123 body for you. The two-mode switch might not work without modification, though. I've had luck with it working on one 18650-compatible Solarforce body, but not on another.


----------



## twl

I believe that the Elzetta can take the 17670 battery without boring. You might want to measure it.
The 17670 has less capacity than the 18650, but is still pretty good and uses the same battery charger, and if it fits in the light without boring it, it might be the way to go.


----------



## chanjyj

twl said:


> I believe that the Elzetta can take the 17670 battery without boring. You might want to measure it.
> The 17670 has less capacity than the 18650, but is still pretty good and uses the same battery charger, and if it fits in the light without boring it, it might be the way to go.



I can confirm it takes 17670s.


----------



## Grizzman

I just ordered a ZFL-M60-CS2D, which will be my first Elzetta, and first M60. If my wallet is lucky, my Elzetta purchases won't mimic my Malkoffs.

Camillo Outfitters is having a Thanksgiving sale on some Elzetta lights and mounts . I found the info on the 1911Forum.

Grizz


----------



## SouthernNights

Grizz you will love the finish. I have a 2 cell and 3 cell both w/crenellated bezels and M60. They are my favorite lights. Have a Malkoff M61SHO for the 2 cell and a M91A for the 3 cell on order. 

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!


----------



## BIGLOU

I let my imagination get the best of me.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Nice!!! :rock:


----------



## RI Chevy

BIGLOU said:


> I let my imagination get the best of me.



Did you get it bored out? Or just experimenting?


----------



## chanjyj

Should be an experiment. Or shitty QA by Elzetta :thumbsdow


----------



## BIGLOU

I got it bored out by my buddy who has a machine shop told him to take it down a couple of hairs from the ID measurement from the 6P bore he has set up for me. It was an experiment because I took my chance that the bore would have exceeded passed the Elzetta tailcap switch thingy that activates the Strobe (I got sent and got stuck with the strobe model) and it still worked.


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool. Thank you for the update. What size 18650 was that? A 2600 or 3100?


----------



## BIGLOU

Ill put up bigger photos later. The battery is an AW 3100 mAh a 1500 mAh increase from the 1600 mAh 17670.



RI Chevy said:


> Cool. Thank you for the update. What size 18650 was that? A 2600 or 3100?


----------



## Grizzman

That's very cool. :twothumbs I'm glad you were able to get it bored to accept the 18650, while keeping the low mode operational. I won't be boring mine, as I've got plenty of other single 18650 tactical lights.


Mine arrived today, and first impression is that it's a keeper. It seems to provide more grip than the Malkoff MD2. The tailcap is shaped to be very comfortable, and overall it feels really good in he hand. I've also been spoiled with all the McClickys in my Malkoffs and 6Ps, so that'll take a bit to get used to. It also looks significantly sexier than either the MD2 or 6P.

At this point, I'm not as thrilled with the M60 as expected, but that opinion will probably change completely once the Sun goes down. The spot is well defined and round, but the corona has an odd shape to it. 

I'd say the M60's tint is better than any of my non W or 261 M61s, with the M61 SHO being in close second place....so no complaint there at all. Worst case, I'll put it into my M951 mounted to a 7.62X51 AR for outdoor longer range use and put that M61 into the Elzetta, or maybe an M61 219.....decisions, decisions.

Grizz


----------



## twl

Grizzman said:


> That's very cool. :twothumbs I'm glad you were able to get it bored to accept the 18650, while keeping the low mode operational. I won't be boring mine, as I've got plenty of other single 18650 tactical lights.
> 
> 
> Mine arrived today, and first impression is that it's a keeper. It seems to provide more grip than the Malkoff MD2. The tailcap is shaped to be very comfortable, and overall it feels really good in he hand. I've also been spoiled with all the McClickys in my Malkoffs and 6Ps, so that'll take a bit to get used to. It also looks significantly sexier than either the MD2 or 6P.
> 
> At this point, I'm not as thrilled with the M60 as expected, but that opinion will probably change completely once the Sun goes down. The spot is well defined and round, but the corona has an odd shape to it.
> 
> I'd say the M60's tint is better than any of my non W or 261 M61s, with the M61 SHO being in close second place....so no complaint there at all. Worst case, I'll put it into my M951 mounted to a 7.62X51 AR for outdoor longer range use and put that M61 into the Elzetta, or maybe an M61 219.....decisions, decisions.
> 
> Grizz



The M60 has a tight beam, and is a thrower for a P60 size light. Throws about 150 yds.
Not a lot of spill. Good tint.
No glass. Very rugged.


----------



## RI Chevy

BIGLOU said:


> Ill put up bigger photos later. The battery is an AW 3100 mAh a 1500 mAh increase from the 1600 mAh 17670.



Thank you BigLou! :thumbsup:


----------



## TMedina

Scored an Elzetta three-cell on sale. 

Time to go hammer some nails.


----------



## Grizzman

twl said:


> The M60 has a tight beam, and is a thrower for a P60 size light. Throws about 150 yds.
> Not a lot of spill. Good tint.
> No glass. Very rugged.



Out in the real world, it's nice........very nice. It'll need to go into an MD2. There's actually more spill than I was expecting. It's not much different than the LX2/E2DL, which doesn't surprise me at all based on posts I've read here.

Grizz


----------



## TMedina

After groping my new Elzetta, it's growing on me. I wish I'd been able to snag the two-cell as well, although it wouldn't have saved me all that much money over buying the host piecemeal.

I'm seriously thinking about picking up a 2-cell host with a low profile bezel.


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice. Any closeup pics of the 3 cell?


----------



## archimedes

Hope it's ok to post here that the Elzetta *Limited Edition Green* appears to be in stock (for now at least) :devil: ... wish I could afford 

Custom laser engraving now offered, too !


----------



## Raptor Factor

Elzetta is releasing a 500 plus lumen bezel/ led module in second quarter 2013 with a new optical lens and high output led!


----------



## GeoBruin

So are we thinking XM-L with an optic?


----------



## Raptor Factor

Probably. I think they're contracting Malkoff Devices, who has XM-L Modules. I don't think it is a P-60 Module though. It looks bigger to get a better beam pattern, also Malkoff sold the optic module design to elzetta I'm pretty sure.


----------



## pjandyho

Watched a few videos on YouTube and don't seem to see the Malkoff name on any of the body tube but I can't be too sure.


----------



## tab665

500 lumens, tir optic, elzetta. drooooooool.


----------



## twl

It is a bit tantalizing, and mysterious.
I will have to keep an eye on this, because I might be in the mood to update the M60 in my Elzetta 3-cell.


----------



## P_A_S_1

I looked at the Elzetta pretty hard before opting for a Malkoff based on a few factors which made it a better choice for me. One of those factors was the module used in the Elzetta, thought it was a bit dated. This new module looks pretty interesting. Looking forward to the specs. There is also something about optics that are pretty cool.


----------



## KeeblerElf

P_A_S_1 said:


> I looked at the Elzetta pretty hard before opting for a Malkoff based on a few factors which made it a better choice for me. One of those factors was the module used in the Elzetta, thought it was a bit dated. This new module looks pretty interesting. Looking forward to the specs. There is also something about optics that are pretty cool.



This may not be the best place to ask this question, but what are the main differences between optics, TIR optics, and reflectors?


----------



## Norm

KeeblerElf said:


> This may not be the best place to ask this question, but what are the main differences between optics, TIR optics, and reflectors?



You're correct, please see this Google search Let's not take the thread off topic. - Norm


----------



## KeeblerElf

Norm said:


> You're correct, please see this Google search Let's not take the thread off topic. - Norm



Thanks, Norm!


----------



## P_A_S_1

I think searching the forum is your best bet, lots of information already posted by members that are very knowledgable about the differences. I've read about the differences in the past as well as the pros and cons however I couldn't begin to explain it properly. Pretty much the way I get it reflectors are generally less expensive and easier to produce hence they're more common. Optics are good at concentrating the light and makes for better throw, however some are designed for flood (SF Minimus). I also understand it that reflectors produce smoother beams with fewer artifacts. So pros and cons for both, neither substantially superior to the other. Personally I think optics just look cool and the fact that they're less common makes them more interesting, to me at least.

Let's not take the thread off topic. - Norm

NP.


----------



## twl

I just put a freshly charged pair of AA eneloops into my Elzetta 3-cell with the M60 drop-in in it.
The full output was probably somewhere around 10 lumens or maybe a touch more.
The low output on the Hi/Lo ring was about 2-3 lumens maybe.

Of course, all this is below regulation, so it just fades dimmer from there as the batteries weaken.
But, it does give useful light at two different brightness levels, or maybe better termed as dimness levels. But it's something, and in an emergency it would be much better than nothing to have that pair of AA in there.

I didn't do a run time test.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

*
Hi Guys.*


I have ordered an Elzetta ZFL-M60-CS2D.

Does anyone know who currently bores the body out so that it will take an 18650 Li-ion battery?

What would be any complications in doing so with runtimes or regulation etc?

Why doesn't Elzetta just make their lights 18650 compatible?

The only reason that I can think of would be the that the body would not be able to take as much abuse by way of shotguns and hammering in nails etc in reducing the wall thickness.


*
CHEERS*


----------



## uncle wong

My friend help me bored out Elzetta to accept 18650 . 
Insert batt from head just like SF E series . 
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/27/9a4asa9y.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/27/ebegedur.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/27/uma2ubu4.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/27/ydadu2u9.jpg


Your images are too large and have been replaced with links Please resize and repost.
See Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels. - Thanks Norm


----------



## Swedpat

Raptor Factor said:


> Elzetta is releasing a 500 plus lumen bezel/ led module in second quarter 2013 with a new optical lens and high output led!



That's great! I just hope that Elzetta then would offer more options of high/low tailcaps, and with a higher low. For example: apart from of 235/15lm I would like 100/15lm.
The question is also what will be the low mode output with the new module and high/low tailcap?


----------



## Diablo_331

Oztorchfreak said:


> Hi Guys.
> 
> I have ordered an Elzetta ZFL-M60-CS2D.
> 
> Does anyone know who currently bores the body out so that it will take an 18650 Li-ion battery?
> 
> What would be any complications in doing so with runtimes or regulation etc?
> 
> Why doesn't Elzetta just make their lights 18650 compatible?
> 
> The only reason that I can think of would be the that the body would not be able to take as much abuse by way of shotguns and hammering in nails etc in reducing the wall thickness.
> 
> 
> CHEERS


The Elzetta line was designed as a weapon light first an for most. They are hugely popular in the weapon community because they are seemingly bomb proof. The reason they aren't bored for an 18mm battery that I've always heard is because cr123s can take the recoil of large caliber weapons better than a li-ion cell can. Maybe it's some some sort of liability for them. Some of us know better than to use li-ions in a weapon light mounted on a 10 gauge shotgun for instance because we generally have a better knowledge of different battery chemistries in the flashlight community than your everyday average Joe would. I'm not saying that every li-ion cell will rupture when used for that purpose but the chances are to some degree or another greater than that of a lithium battery.


----------



## twl

It's the same reason that SureFires aren't bored for 18mm cells, either.
It's the protection circuit boards that can be hammered into not working when under repeated recoil in weaponlight applications.

Of course, there are smaller Li-Ion cells with PCBs that will go in there, if you have to do it. Or you can bore them out yourself.
Same as a SureFire.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

I have been looking at the Elzetta for quite a while now.

Henry's Rotary 200 orders have taken forever to get fulfilled so I went with the Elzetta and it is very Legoable and tough as nails as everyone can see on their website.

When I saw the video taken at SHOT 2013 showing the new ZRX 500+ lumen module coming out later this year it pushed me over the edge in my decision.

I think* twl* and *Diablo 331* are right about damaging the PTC boards in heavy duty weapons.

The pictures showing the green NCR 18650A Li-ion batteries look like the unprotected ones similar to the Panasonic 18650B 3400mah ones that I use in my Firefoxes III 40W HID.

I went with unprotected ones as I did not want to cut down the springs in the battery carrier and thereby taking it away from stock standard in case I wanted to sell my FF3, although only an FF4 could probably beat it.

I am really looking forward to getting my laser etched personalised Elzetta.

To make my Elzetta more versatile I have bought a few extras like a 3 cell body, flood LED module, spare o-ring kits, a few lanyards (10lb breaking strain for safety) and a standard bezel in case the crenulated one gets snagged in my pockets too much.

When I work out what is the best combinations of this light I will buy the remaing bits to make up another light including the ZRX 500+ lumen LED module.

A 500+ lumen LED module is probably going to need the 3 cell body to help shed the heat that will be developed.



*CHEERS*


----------



## twl

I would suspect from the appearance of that ZRX500 module with its large optic that it will be oriented toward throwing. That's just a guess right now.

However, with a 3-cell body, there are already Malkoff modules in the M91A range of drop-ins which will currently work in that Elzetta 3-cell light, and output up to 750 lumens from an XML.
And I believe that with the advent of Gene using the XML2 in some other products, that we may see the XML2 in this module also, with a bump in output to go along with that.
However M91A is a rather floody module, and not a real thrower, but it has some reach with those 750 lumens. Probably a lot like a ZL SC600 on Turbo, without having any step-down.

Regarding your 3-cell light, I also have the 3-cell, and it will accept 2AA batteries in it with the M60 or M61 modules, and that is a nice feature for battery compatibility in emergencies. It won't put out a lot of light with 2AA, but it gives some light and the 2AA will drop right in there without any modifications and work. About 10 lumens on 2 Eneloops on High, and only a couple lumens on Low.
Additionally, you can use 3 x CR123, 2 x 17500, 2 x 14500, 2 x RCR123(16340) with a dummy CR123 spacer, or even one of any of those other cell choices with the appropriate dummy spacers. It has a LOT of battery versatility, which it also shares with the SureFire 3-cell models, and I can't think of any light which offers so much of that for emergency needs.
Of course, the very low voltage cells or low capacity cells wouldn't be appropriate for the big powerful 750 lumen XML M91A. That needs the full 5.5v-9v to run that.

I'm interested about this ZRX500 module. They aren't saying that it is a Malkoff module, and it isn't like any Malkoff module that I have seen so far.
We'll have to keep an eye on this to see just what this thing is.


----------



## ObsceneJesster

I have a Elzetta mounted on to the front of my Mossberg 590A1 using the Elzetta mount. It is the best damn light/mount I've ever used on a shotgun application. After at least 500 rounds of slugs/buckshot, the light hasn't moved the slightest bit and the light never flickers due to recoil. Seriously, these lights are built like tanks and I would put Elzetta lights up at the top of the list when it comes to lights made for weapon mounting systems.


----------



## tobrien

ObsceneJesster said:


> I have a Elzetta mounted on to the front of my Mossberg 590A1 using the Elzetta mount. It is the best damn light/mount I've ever used on a shotgun application. After at least 500 rounds of slugs/buckshot, the light hasn't moved the slightest bit and the light never flickers due to recoil. Seriously, these lights are built like tanks and I would put Elzetta lights up at the top of the list when it comes to lights made for weapon mounting systems.



that's awesome!


----------



## AZPops

tab665 said:


> 500 lumens, tir optic, elzetta. drooooooool.



Yeah that'll be noe hot light to own! If the TIR is designed 4 throw and not a flood! If it's for a flood beam, I'm out!


----------



## yearnslow

Anyone got one of these? And if so, what are your impressions in real life use as opposed to 'tech spec'.


----------



## twl

yearnslow said:


> Anyone got one of these? And if so, what are your impressions in real life use as opposed to 'tech spec'.



Not sure what you mean specifically, but I have an Elzetta ZFL-M60 3-cell with Hi/Lo switch, and it is the most rugged and solidly-built light that I have ever seen.

I haven't seen the 500 lumen module, if that's what you are referring to.


----------



## ObsceneJesster

yearnslow said:


> Anyone got one of these? And if so, what are your impressions in real life use as opposed to 'tech spec'.




Like I said in a previous post, I have the 2 Cell version with Low Profile Bezel mounted to my Mossberg 590A1 using the Elzetta Shotgun Mount. I have to agree with the post above. It is the most solid flashlight I own. You just know it's a quality made light after holding it. When I first got it, I tested it out by leaving it in the on position and doing a rapid fire drill with 8 consecutive shots of 3in Slugs. The light never flickered unlike some other lights I've seen do this. Seriously though, you're not going to find many lights that cost less than $200 built to the same quality as Elzetta.


----------



## ObsceneJesster

yearnslow said:


> Anyone got one of these? And if so, what are your impressions in real life use as opposed to 'tech spec'.




I should have included these videos in my previous post but after viewing these, what is your impression? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=L_VJ42w7vJQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aaCwgVrdXFA#!


----------



## BIG45-70

What kind of durability/longevity can one expect from the Elzetta hi/low tail cap?


----------



## Mikeg23

Mine still works great!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?344582-The-Elzetta-two-mode-switch


----------



## chanjyj

The threads are rather short, so be careful when twisting the tailcap and also when replacing batteries (high risk of cross-thread). Otherwise, no issues.


----------



## Kamerat

New holster for my Elzetta, from Thor's Hammer Custom Learher, beautiful work!


----------



## GG_Blaisdell

Kamerat said:


> New holster for my Elzetta, from Thor's Hammer Custom Learher, beautiful work!



Your photos are broken, at least on my end. Can you repost? I'd love to see the holster and light!


----------



## neutralwhite

same here. 
start again. thanks. 



GG_Blaisdell said:


> Your photos are broken, at least on my end. Can you repost? I'd love to see the holster and light!


----------



## Kamerat

Sorry!


----------



## Kamerat

Some more photos of the red colored (color: oxblood) holster.


----------



## RI Chevy

Very nice holster. I also like the personalized name on the host! :thumbsup:


----------



## BenChiew

Kamerat. How much is that holster and where can i buy it? Thank you.


----------



## neutralwhite

*Thor's Hammer Custom Leather 
*


Benchiew said:


> Kamerat. How much is that holster and where can i buy it? Thank you.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Karamet please resize two of your images to 800X800 max. Thanks,

Bill


----------



## Redhat703

Just scored a 3 cell Elzetta. Love it.


----------



## Kamerat

Thank you for all the pictures!! Maybe I'll need a 3-cell body as well


----------



## chanjyj

Raptor Factor said:


> Elzetta is releasing a 500 plus lumen bezel/ led module in second quarter 2013 with a new optical lens and high output led!




I'm waiting. Have been waiting for this for a LONG time.


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice photos above. I always wondered if the head attached to the host like a Malkoff or a Surefire. Pictures tell a thousand words!  That light sure is beefy to say the least. I'd love to add one to my collection.


----------



## twl

RI Chevy said:


> Nice photos above. I always wondered if the head attached to the host like a Malkoff or a Surefire. Pictures tell a thousand words!  That light sure is beefy to say the least. I'd love to add one to my collection.



The head screws on to my SureFire shotgun fore-end light. I'm not sure which model that corresponds to.
However, it does not screw on far enough, and no drop-ins would work with it.

The tail screws on to a Malkoff, but not far enough, so it doesn't work on that.

I haven't found any other light which will accept these heads and tails except for their own Elzetta bodies. There might be some, but I don't have any, and don't know of any.


----------



## AardvarkSagus

Raptor Factor said:


> Elzetta is releasing a 500 plus lumen bezel/ led module in second quarter 2013 with a new optical lens and high output led!


Wow, that is incredible news. That's the one area where I thought the Elzetta needed an update. Output power has been steadily climbing and a new head with 500 lumens of output would be excellent for conservatively keeping pace.


----------



## kyhunter1

Im curious to see the direction they go with the optical lens. If it is anywhere close to Surefire's TIR, it should have good throw. If it ends up not being a thrower, it will still be nice.


----------



## Redhat703

I just saw another 2-cell with hi-lo tail cap + M61WLL (yeah right LL) on the bay that I could not resist. Now is the fun part...waiting......


----------



## scsmith

> The head screws on to my SureFire shotgun fore-end light. I'm not sure which model that corresponds to.
> However, it does not screw on far enough, and no drop-ins would work with it.
> 
> I haven't found any other light which will accept these heads and tails except for their own Elzetta bodies. There might be some, but I don't have any, and don't know of any.


The ElZetta head and tail threads are the same as those on the Surefire P/C/Z series, but the ElZ thread sections are shorter.


----------



## Redhat703

scsmith said:


> The ElZetta head and tail threads are the same as those on the Surefire P/C/Z series, but the ElZ thread sections are shorter.


Those head threads look the same but they are not. That's why a SF head only goes about 1 turn on the Elzetta body (same with Elzetta head on SF body). The Malkoff MD2 and SF head threads are the same though.


----------



## run4jc

True confessions. I sold my Elzetta(s) a while back to fund another project. For some reason I decided that I needed to replace at least one of them, so I did an a la carte order of the cren bezel, 2 cell ZFL-M60 body, and 2 level clicky tail cap. Finished it with a Malkoff M61N SHO from Oveready.



Glad this little light is back in my collection. Such a nice size and weight, and the beam from that Malkoff M61N SHO is just perfect. Sometimes what goes around comes around - thankfully!


----------



## BenChiew

Does anyone else find the beam coming out of the Elzetta narrower compared to say a MD2 bezel?


----------



## twl

I haven't noticed that, but it's possible.
I use the M60 in my Elzetta, so it's a narrow beam anyway. If I had a floody module in there, I might be able to notice any difference.

There are some people who have machined out the opening wider, to widen the floody beam spread, in both the Elzetta and the MD2 heads.


----------



## Slumber

Benchiew said:


> Does anyone else find the beam coming out of the Elzetta narrower compared to say a MD2 bezel?



I notice my M61L, when used in my Elzettas, has a dark ring in the outer spill beam. I assume its from the smaller opening of the bezel. It loses the ring when I put it in an MD2 or G2. The only other M61 variant I have is a 219, which has that ring anyway. 

BTW....what gasket/o-ring setup are you guys using with an M61? Bezel - oring - lens - M61? Or are you somehow using the gasket that is used in the MD2?


----------



## Grizzman

I use Bezel - O-ring - lens - M61

I remember trying out an MD2 gasket, but ended up using the O-ring (don't recall the issue with the gasket).

Grizz


----------



## BenChiew

I use the oring included.


----------



## run4jc

Benchiew said:


> Does anyone else find the beam coming out of the Elzetta narrower compared to say a MD2 bezel?



Not the best quality, and bear in mind that even though these are both M61SHO engines, the Elzetta has an Oveready M61N version - the other is an M61SHO cool. The "N" is in a 2 cell Elzetta host with the crenelated bezel - the Malkoff is an MD3 body/MD2 head.

I hope this is helpful. Clearly the Elzetta has a narrower beam.


----------



## Redhat703

I use the MD2 lens kit for my 3-cell with M61W, works great!


----------



## BenChiew

I could not get 2x 17500 in the 3 cell to work. Any one know why?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Benchiew said:


> I could not get 2x 17500 in the 3 cell to work. Any one know why?



Flat top cells? Too long, putting pressure on tailcap?

Bill


----------



## BenChiew

It has got the button on the positive but perhaps too long. So seemed like pointless to get it bored for 18mm as it will also be too long.


----------



## RI Chevy

Which 17500 are you using? AW's?


----------



## BenChiew

RI Chevy said:


> Which 17500 are you using? AW's?



Yes.


----------



## RI Chevy

If you just back off the tail cap a little (half turn or so), the batteries should still work in the host. Match up the 2-17500's, to the 3-CR123A's and see how much of a difference there is, side by side.


----------



## BenChiew

RI Chevy said:


> If you just back off the tail cap a little (half turn or so), the batteries should still work in the host. Match up the 2-17500's, to the 3-CR123A's and see how much of a difference there is, side by side.



I will get to a battery shop to see if I can get some "shorty" 17500s.


----------



## BenChiew

RI Chevy. 
What light is that you have got on your avatar? Looks like a chromed Elzetta?


----------



## Redhat703

Benchiew said:


> I could not get 2x 17500 in the 3 cell to work. Any one know why?


I think the 3-cell is a little bit short. I use 3xCR123 and the last battery does not go completely to the body (about 1-2mm out of the tail). You could loose the head for a bit to allow the tail cap screw in further. My 2-cell does not have this problem..


----------



## Redhat703

Benchiew said:


> RI Chevy.
> What light is that you have got on your avatar? Looks like a chromed Elzetta?


I think that is one of _*Limited "Black Chrome" Gene Malkoff Signature Edition Elzetta ZFL-M60-CS2C Flashlights from 2009. Only 50 of these were produced.*_
That's beautiful..


----------



## BenChiew

Redhat703 said:


> I think that is one of _*Limited "Black Chrome" Gene Malkoff Signature Edition Elzetta ZFL-M60-CS2C Flashlights from 2009. Only 50 of these were produced.*_
> That's beautiful..



Thanks for the info. Sure is beautiful.


----------



## RI Chevy

Yup. That's it!


----------



## AZPops

That Black Chrome Elzetta's HOT!


----------



## Shooter21

WOW that is so incredibly sexy, I love chrome.


----------



## BenChiew

I wondered if I did have one of the black chrome models, would I dare use it?


----------



## BenChiew

Both my 2 cell Elzetta are going to Barry for his 18mm treatment. Hope it would not be away for too long.


----------



## Oztorchfreak

That black chrome Elzetta looks terrific but it would become a shelf queen in most people's collections I would imagine.

Who would want to scratch that masterpiece?

Has anyone heard any more rumours about when the 500 lumen LED head for the Elzetta is coming out?

The new LED comes fitted in a new head probably due to the amount of heat generated compared to the original LED.

It was supposed to be out in May this year.

My only concern is the drain on Hi mode that will drastically reduce the run time compared to the original setup.

I noticed on my Elzetta 2 and 3 cell lights that the thread length on the tail end of these lights is not very long.

They work well and provide a great seal from water but you do have to be aware that the tailcap takes only a small amount of twisting before it comes away from the body.

I look forward to getting the new higher lumen head mainly to add to my collection to see if it can topple my other smaller sized lights.

My favourite EDC nowadays is the Zebralight SC52.

What a nice little pocket rocket!

The SC52 puts out heaps of light when running a 14500 Li-ion battery but the run time is rather short as most 14500 batteries max out at 800mah.

I occasionally use an Efest IMR 700mah battery and it works well with heaps of surprising output.

I prefer using an Imedion NIMH LSD (low self discharge) 2400mah battery as it gives a me a really good run time.

The 14500 battery is really quite impractical in my opinion as the light heats up rather quickly until step-down kicks in and the run time is pretty short.

I use the 14500 battery mainly to impress people with the much higher output more than anything. 

Yes I know I like showing off my lights like most flashaholics, but why not?

The Elzetta sure looks bomb proof to me.

Those hammer, water, shotgun, and drop tests look pretty convincing to me.

The thickness of the wall of the body and head is much thicker than any lights that I have ever used.



*CHEERS*


----------



## twl

I would expect that the 500 Lumen Elzetta to be similar to the Malkoff M91 if they use an XM-L2 emitter. The run time is okay on that.
Probably about an hour and a half on high, with 3 x CR123 primary cells.


----------



## BenChiew

twl said:


> I would expect that the 500 Lumen Elzetta to be similar to the Malkoff M91 if they use an XM-L2 emitter. The run time is okay on that.
> Probably about an hour and a half on high, with 3 x CR123 primary cells.



That would be exciting. If only the beam pattern could be something like the M60 MCE flood, I will be all over it. With efficiency to boot.


----------



## precisionworks

Benchiew said:


> Both my 2 cell Elzetta are going to Barry for his 18mm treatment. Hope it would not be away for too long.



The gauntlet has been thrown ... Now I am under the gun 


Barry Milton
Precision-Gunsmithing.com
iPhone5 voice recognition


----------



## jspalaroan

Where can i buy a clip that is compatible for my 2 cell unit? The landyard ring that comes with the unit seems not a good quality, it broke after i was trying to install in my flashlight😳 any recommendation? Probably titanium material, many thanks.


----------



## BenChiew

The lanyard ring is designed to break for safety. Jason at DarkSucks make a titanium clip for it.


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

Anybody know when the 500 lumen version is coming out? I have been holding off on getting one of these in anticipation of an update.


----------



## jorn

Just buy a malkoff m91 module and replace the stock drop in, then you have a 500 lumen version. Elzetta uses a standard malkoff drop in.


----------



## twl

jorn said:


> Just buy a malkoff m91 module and replace the stock drop in, then you have a 500 lumen version. Elzetta uses a standard malkoff drop in.



The M91 series works best with 3 cells(3 x CR123) so the 3-cell Elzetta would be best for that module.
However, if a person wanted to use the 2-cell model, it's possible to use 2 x 16340. But the run time won't be very long.


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

twl said:


> The M91 series works best with 3 cells(3 x CR123) so the 3-cell Elzetta would be best for that module.
> However, if a person wanted to use the 2-cell model, it's possible to use 2 x 16340. But the run time won't be very long.



Right, which is why I'm waiting for the updated 500-lumen version that I can use in a 2-cell body. Assuming they can produce such an item. I don't see why not though as everyone is producing a 2-cell with at least 500 lumens now it seems.


----------



## Redhat703

I was debating about getting a MK M91 for my 3-cell. When I watched the video clip of that new 500 lumen version, I noticed the new head had much bigger and wider optics. I'm not sure this would make the beam throw farther, so I'm holding my purchase for now.


----------



## jspalaroan

Benchiew said:


> The lanyard ring is designed to break for safety. Jason at DarkSucks make a titanium clip for it.



The wire diameter of the lanyard ring is too small, it should be heavy duty one without sacrificing the safety aspect of the ring, one thing i don't like with lanyard ring is the design which the portion you tie the lanyard protrudes, best for lanyard attachment should be at the tail cap side, no need for the ring , hence there should be a hole at the tail cap itself , just like other brands( like SF defender etc) i will check with Jason if his products is acceptable . Looking forward how to edc my 2 cell😄


----------



## Grizzman

I've been running a Dark Sucks clip on my 2-cell light the entire time I've owned it. It works very well, and looks great. 

I can post a photo a little later. it's a good opportunity to try it from my phone. 

Grizz


----------



## BenChiew

Grizzman said:


> I've been running a Dark Sucks clip on my 2-cell light the entire time I've owned it. It works very well, and looks great.
> 
> I can post a photo a little later. it's a good opportunity to try it from my phone.
> 
> Grizz



That would be a great idea for the picture.


----------



## jspalaroan

Looking forward to it


----------



## Grizzman

Here's my ZFL-M60 wearing a flamed titanium Dark Sucks pocket clip. The current light engine is a Malkoff M61SHO 219. 










Grizz


----------



## twl

That looks REALLY good!
I love the way the clip settles right into that nameplate groove on the side of the Elzetta body.


----------



## Grizzman

Here's another view. I used the black O-Ring that comes with the clip to eliminate all tendencies for the clip to rotate.








Grizz


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice. It looks like it was tailor made for the Elzetta! Absolutely perfect fit.


----------



## jspalaroan

Thats solve my problem


----------



## BenChiew

RI Chevy said:


> Nice. It looks like it was tailor made for the Elzetta! Absolutely perfect fit.



+1


----------



## Grizzman

jspalaroan said:


> Thats solve my problem



I'm glad I could be of service. I'm not about to retire the DSLRs, but the phone didn't do too bad (with limited required depth of field and good lighting conditions).

Grizz


----------



## philpac33

http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag99/philpac33/Gun%20Stuff/null_zps56661d49.jpg

http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag99/philpac33/Gun%20Stuff/null_zps9b671d13.jpg

New to the board and need to get my post count over 3 so I figured I'd post a couple pics of my newest light. It's the ZFL-M60-CS3D and has become my absolute favorite EDC light. I plan to mount it to my rifle using an Elzetta ZORM mount but I've become very fond of my Inforce/Haley Strategic Partners WML at the 12:00 rail position so it's up in the air whether or not it stays a dedicated weapon light. I'm excited to run this Elzetta during low-light training at my upcoming 2-day handgun class as this facility has an excellent 360* dark house. Very happy with Elzetta and looking forward to learning from all you flashlight enthusiasts.

Your images are oversize, when you post an image please remember Rule #3 

Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels.

*Please resize and repost.* - Thanks Norm





Bullyson said:


> Stereodude, the new reflectors produce a perfect filled in beam with my XPE2 drop in. I used it with my XML and it does slightly better at filling in the donut hole but it does much better with the XPE.
> http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd246/Unbendable74/XPE_zpsbf830dac.jpg
> 
> Your images are oversize, when you post an image please remember Rule #3
> 
> Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels.
> 
> *Please resize and repost.* - Thanks Norm


----------



## precisionworks

philpac33 said:


> ... I'm excited to run this Elzetta during low-light training at my upcoming 2-day handgun class ...



Whose class are you attending?


----------



## RI Chevy

Welcome to the Forum. :welcome:


----------



## tobrien

nice stuff philpac33! congrats


----------



## BenChiew

Look what I discovered. A Malkoff MD tailcap works perfectly on an Elzetta.


----------



## Grizzman

Benchiew said:


> Look what I discovered. A Malkoff MD tailcap works perfectly on an Elzetta.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That's news to me.


----------



## BenChiew

Grizzman said:


> Benchiew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look what I discovered. A Malkoff MD tailcap works perfectly on an Elzetta.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That's news to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Gene has got a number of blemished tailcaps for $15. Can't beat that for value. And it will tail stand too....:thumbsup:
Click to expand...


----------



## Grizzman

Benchview isn't kidding, a Malkoff tailcap does work. While not engaging much in the way of threads, it is secure, even with a Dark Sucks clip attached.

Grizz


----------



## BenChiew

Grizzman said:


> Benchview isn't kidding, a Malkoff tailcap does work. While not engaging much in the way of threads, it is secure, even with a Dark Sucks clip attached.
> 
> Grizz



Grizz. That is news to me on the dark sucks clips. I have been thinking about getting some. Your post confirms that it will work. Thanks.


----------



## Cerealand

Oveready now has bored 2 and 3 cell elzetta hosts for sale. Nice!


----------



## BenChiew

Cerealand said:


> Oveready now has bored 2 and 3 cell elzetta hosts for sale. Nice!



Great news. Now they are even more practical with 18mm cells capabilities.


----------



## KDM

Cerealand said:


> Oveready now has bored 2 and 3 cell elzetta hosts for sale. Nice!



Just placed my order for a 2 cell with standard head and high/low cap. This will be my first. Been checking them out for a while, got the email about the bored version and couldn't resist.


----------



## GeoBruin

Oveready's going to make a killing. That's quite a business model they have. Collect all the best stuff in one place, offer every variation made plus a few "Oveready exclusives", offer modding services on all their stuff, and of course provide great customer service. This might be the kick in the pants I needed to order my fist Elzetta host.


----------



## BenChiew

Hopefully there will be more people buying the host.


----------



## rioimmagina

*R: Elzetta- The industry's best kept secret.*

Buuu the elzetta 2 cells hosts are out of stock already! Ok, next time i'll be faster...


----------



## BenChiew

Those went quick. Wonder when Oveready will get more in.


----------



## jorn

Wont a bored elzetta host loose the ability to use the hi/lo switch? .
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343482-Fun-with-Elzetta-hi-low-and-SF6P-host


----------



## run4jc

jorn said:


> Wont a bored elzetta host loose the ability to use the hi/lo switch? .
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343482-Fun-with-Elzetta-hi-low-and-SF6P-host



I don't think Oveready would sell that combination if it wouldn't work. I managed to grab one of them and that's the tailcap/switch I ordered...I'll report in after I get it. Included a Crenelated bezel.

That's the exact same host I've loved with a Malkoff M61N - I'll probably sell that combo after the bored one comes - grabbed one of Gene's M36N LMH engines that will find its way into this host

Can't wait!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## twl

I think that the Elzetta provides a useful alternative to the MD2/3 Malkoff lights because they offer the Hi/Lo switch on the tailcap.
This is a very nice option for one-handed tactical operation, because all the functions are selectable/switchable from the tailcap with one hand.
If I were to specifically select a light for hardcore tactical applications, I think the Elzetta is a better layout for those things because no re-positioning of the hand is needed to control all the functions. It's really a nice layout from that viewpoint.


----------



## KDM

run4jc said:


> I don't think Oveready would sell that combination if it wouldn't work. I managed to grab one of them and that's the tailcap/switch I ordered...I'll report in after I get it. Included a Crenelated bezel.
> 
> That's the exact same host I've loved with a Malkoff M61N - I'll probably sell that combo after the bored one comes - grabbed one of Gene's M36 LMH engines that will find its way into this host
> 
> Can't wait!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



My thoughts exactly, I've got two of the M361N's. One for the md2 and one for the awaiting Elzetta.


----------



## Mikeg23

jorn said:


> Wont a bored elzetta host loose the ability to use the hi/lo switch? .
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343482-Fun-with-Elzetta-hi-low-and-SF6P-host



I've got a elzetta two stage tailcap on an overready 6P an it works fine. The only problem I had was my 6P was "custom HA" so the inside of the battery compartment needed to have the coating removed.


----------



## KDM

Does anyone know if the resistor is the same in the hi/low cap and malkoffs hi/low ring?


----------



## BenChiew

KDM said:


> Does anyone know if the resistor is the same in the hi/low cap and malkoffs hi/low ring?



They appear to have similar outputs when used.


----------



## jorn

Yep, thats the main problem. Some pepole would never put a dremel on their $$$ host (i would  ). 
And will this last since the nipple on the hi/lo switch hits more on the inside of the tube? I would guess it slowly gets worn down when twisted.


----------



## Norm

jorn said:


> And will this last since the nipple on the hi/lo switch hits more on the inside of the tube? I would guess it slowly gets worn down when twisted.



I can't imagine the softer Aluminium wearing down the harder brass nipple.

Norm


----------



## BenChiew

Here are some raw comparison images. 

MD2, 6P, Elzetta 2 cell






MD3, 9P, Elzetta 3 cell





6P, 9P, Elzetta 2 and 3 cells


----------



## jorn

Norm said:


> I can't imagine the softer Aluminium wearing down the harder brass nipple.
> 
> Norm


Something have been worn out on my osts fandyfire. (Brass touching the inside of the tube when head tight) Now i need to keep the head loosened to get full output of the max level. If i keep the head tight, i only get maby 75% and a little flicker. But it might be the tube that is worn out first. 
Might not be a problem for the bored out elzetta, but then again, it might be. Time will tell.


----------



## twl

It depends.
Usually the aluminum used on flashlights is quite hard, such as 6061-T6.
Often brass is left soft, and is a rather soft metal anyway.
Additionally, aluminum which oxidizes forms aluminum oxide on the surface, and aluminum oxide is an abrasive material used for sandpaper.
So, it could be a potential wear situation, and it should be inspected periodically to see if anything is happening.
Probably a good idea to use Nyogel on that area.


----------



## chanjyj

I am still waiting for the 500 lumen head. Damn, it's getting tiring.


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

chanjyj said:


> I am still waiting for the 500 lumen head. Damn, it's getting tiring.




Same. I'm not going to leap into it until that comes out.


----------



## BenChiew

WilsonCQB1911 said:


> Same. I'm not going to leap into it until that comes out.



Oh why not Wilson? 

It will likely be offered as drop in OR a fixed head. In either case, you can still use the host again. Plus many who buy them use them with Malkoff drop ins anyway. 
So either way, you can't loose.


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

Benchiew said:


> Oh why not Wilson?
> 
> It will likely be offered as drop in OR a fixed head. In either case, you can still use the host again. Plus many who buy them use them with Malkoff drop ins anyway.
> So either way, you can't loose.



mainly because I don't need it. I'm way beyond my "needs" when it comes to flashlights. So I'd prefer to wait till it comes out in the configuration I really want. My P60 hosts all have Malkoffs in them already, so I don't need another one. I've got M61NSHO, M61, M61LL, and M61LLL.


----------



## twl

I find it very interesting to see how different people have different wants for stuff like this.

I personally find it very hard to give up the standard M60 that came in my Elzetta 3-cell. I have had plenty of opportunity to change it out to a M91A, or M61, or whatever.
But, it still has the M60 in it, and I just can't seem to bring myself to take it out of there.

I will definitely give the new 500 lumen head a good look. But I'm not sure that I'll buy it. I might, if it has a good throw and the head isn't to large.


----------



## fyrstormer

Norm said:


> I can't imagine the softer Aluminium wearing down the harder brass nipple.
> 
> Norm


It seems unlikely at first, but there are two important considerations:

1) Elzetta uses *very* hard aluminum.
2) The wear on the aluminum battery tube is spread across the entire circumference of the tube, but the wear on the brass contact is located at a single small point.

Given those considerations, the brass contact will actually wear considerably faster than the aluminum battery tube. The brass contact on my switch is already worn mostly-flat, whereas it originally had a rounded tip. I keep the end of the battery tube coated with grease, just to be safe.


----------



## Kaban

Really wanting to purchase a 3 cell Elzetta. It's such a neat looking light.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

fyrstormer said:


> 1) Elzetta uses *very* hard aluminum.



Quite right, the same Mil-Spec Type III Hard Anodized 6061-T6 that most of our better builders on CPF use, as well as Surefire and Malkoff. Of course Type III hard anodize, HA, does not make any alloy of aluminum hard, just more wear resistant.

Bill


----------



## BenChiew

twl said:


> I personally find it very hard to give up the standard M60 that came in my Elzetta 3-cell. I have had plenty of opportunity to change it out to a M91A, or M61, or whatever.
> But, it still has the M60 in it, and I just can't seem to bring myself to take it out of there.



Elzetta / M60. A pair made in heaven.


----------



## Kaban

Third quarter is starting tomorrow. Where is this new 500 lumen module? Anyone know if there are still plans for it?


----------



## Slumber

I've had two M60's from Elzetta (both cool) that had not so nice beams. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I'm of the opinion that Elzettas drop-in QC is not so good. I did have an Oveready "N" M60 that I believe was made by Elzetta that was pretty good.


----------



## jorn

Bullzeyebill said:


> Quite right, the same Mil-Spec Type III Hard Anodized 6061-T6 that most of our better builders on CPF use, as well as Surefire and Malkoff. Of course Type III hard anodize, HA, does not make any alloy of aluminum hard, just more wear resistant.
> 
> Bill


In this case the HA wont matter. The nipple on the resistor needs to hit bare alu, or it wont work. Im just worrying the nipple might hit too mutch on the inside of the tube instead of the top of the tube. The side of the nipple will wear out faster, and you got no spring to push it sideways for constant contact. 
Im just speculating, so i hope someone with a bored elzetta and a hi/lo tailcap can take a look. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343482-Fun-with-Elzetta-hi-low-and-SF6P-host
The guy with the bored 6p thad to remove the HA from the inside of the tube for the 2mode cap to work properly, so the nipple must have hit the inside on that bored 6p. If the bored elzetta is the same, the nipple or tube might wear out and loose contact in the long run.


----------



## GrizzlyAdams

Slumber Pass said:


> I've had two M60's from Elzetta (both cool) that had not so nice beams. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I'm of the opinion that Elzettas drop-in QC is not so good. I did have an Oveready "N" M60 that I believe was made by Elzetta that was pretty good.



Elzetta doesnt make the drop-in, Malkoff does.


----------



## RI Chevy

Malkoff does not make the M60 anymore. They are made to the same specs by someone else. I read that he sold the M60 rights to Elzetta exclusively.


----------



## Mikeg23

jorn said:


> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343482-Fun-with-Elzetta-hi-low-and-SF6P-host
> The guy with the bored 6p thad to remove the HA from the inside of the tube for the 2mode cap to work properly, so the nipple must have hit the inside on that bored 6p. If the bored elzetta is the same, the nipple or tube might wear out and loose contact in the long run.



In that thread I posted pics of the hi/low tailcap on a bored surefire and a factory surefire. They look pretty similar.


----------



## Kaban

I picked up a 3 cell Elzetta from a forum member with an early model M91 drop in. I replaced the tailcap with a high/low one and this light instantly became my favorite light. Built like a tank.


----------



## Redhat703

Kaban said:


> I picked up a 3 cell Elzetta from a forum member with an early model M91 drop in. I replaced the tailcap with a high/low one and this light instantly became my favorite light. Built like a tank.


Congrats for your new light! 
I put a M61SHO 219 to my 3-cell and like it so much.


----------



## jspalaroan

How do you remove / change tail cap ? It seems sealed. Thanks in advance


----------



## BenChiew

jspalaroan said:


> How do you remove / change tail cap ? It seems sealed. Thanks in advance



Just twist it.


----------



## jspalaroan

Ok done, i guess the design is so concealed and never notice it😄


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Received my OVEREADY Elzetta today bored for 18650 with hi lo TC, it is SWEET!


----------



## BenChiew

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Received my OVEREADY Elzetta today bored for 18650 with hi lo TC, it is SWEET!



Nice one Brandon. Mine is with Barry getting his 18mm treatment. 

What are you going to put in there?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Benchiew said:


> Nice one Brandon. Mine is with Barry getting his 18mm treatment.
> 
> What are you going to put in there?



Its sporting a M361N, will rotate that and the M61N. Love the 4000K Malkoffs.


----------



## BenChiew

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Its sporting a M361N, will rotate that and the M61N. Love the 4000K Malkoffs.


Great. With the M361N you get High, Medium, Low. Use your HiLo tailcap, you get Low Low, Low Low Low and Moonlight. LOL


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

All the lows are really similar.


----------



## BenChiew

PoliceScannerMan said:


> All the lows are really similar.


Thanks.I need to check that out again.


----------



## BenChiew

Brandon. test it again. You will get 3 discernible brightness.
You need to twist the cap to activate the HiLo tailcap, then cycle thru the 3 stages as you would on full power (tailcap deactivated).
If you are in full power in either LMH and then twist your cap, it will always go back down to LOW. Remember, 5 secs and it will always start at low. Meaning that, no matter which stage you are in and then twist you HiLo cap, it always goes to low.


----------



## KDM

In my opinion the only thing that would make the M361N better for me is hybrid memory. I also am loving the 4000k xpg2. Got six malkoffs and a Ra clicky with it, my most used lights.


----------



## BenChiew

KDM said:


> In my opinion the only thing that would make the M361N better for me is hybrid memory. I also am loving the 4000k xpg2. Got six malkoffs and a Ra clicky with it, my most used lights.


I agree. Personally, I would have preferred it to stay on the level that I was in and perhaps a .5sec. Surely not 2 seconds.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Benchiew said:


> I agree. Personally, I would have preferred it to stay on the level that I was in and perhaps a .5sec. Surely not 2 seconds.



Mine is 5 seconds on, then it will go back to low if switched.


----------



## BenChiew

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Mine is 5 seconds on, then it will go back to low if switched.



Oops. Yes Brandon, it was supposed o be 5seconds for the Malkoff LMH. Was thinking too much about the 2 sec hold for memory in Mac's lights. LOL


----------



## Kaban

I am extremely pleased with my Elzetta so far. I love using it. I have been searching for a long time for a light that has usable spill; something I can use for normal tasks. That M91 drop in works like a charm.


----------



## hron61

Kaban said:


> I am extremely pleased with my Elzetta so far. I love using it. I have been searching for a long time for a light that has usable spill; something I can use for normal tasks. That M91 drop in works like a charm.



Im glad your digging your new light, i knew i would regret selling that beast. enjoy. :thumbsup:


----------



## Kaban

hron61 said:


> Im glad your digging your new light, i knew i would regret selling that beast. enjoy. :thumbsup:



Thanks again Ron. I cleaned and put NyoGel 760G on the threads. This puppy is super smooth now. Really liking the new high/low tailcap too and the standard bezel.


----------



## Mikeg23

Does anyone know what kind of amerage the elzetta tailcap is rated at, particularly the hi/low switch. 
I became curious since the Malkoff M61 doesnt pull over 1 amp and M91 not over 2 amps if the switch would be designed to handle any more than that.


----------



## snakeplissken83

shane45_1911 said:


> LOL!!!! Oh wait, you were serious?



He's right. Weird-size batteries are an expensive pain in the a.


----------



## twl

snakeplissken83 said:


> He's right. Weird-size batteries are an expensive pain in the a.



CR123 and RCR123 batteries are "weird size"?


----------



## Diablo_331

Who knew?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

OK, most of us flashaholics know that CR123's are not a weird size. We've been using them for years, and some of our best flashlights, production, modded and custom, use that cell. 

Bill


----------



## jtr1962

Bullzeyebill said:


> OK, most of us flashaholics know that CR123's are not a weird size. We've been using them for years, and some of our best flashlights, production, modded and custom, use that cell.


Until rechargeable 123s became available, I considered CR123s to be a "weird" size because you were forced into using primary cells. I don't consider high-drain devices like flashlights to be a good place to use primary cells for economic reasons. Now that R123s are readily available this is no longer a problem. I personally prefer LiFePO4 R123s. The voltage is the same as primary 123s, so there are no compatibility issues. I don't consider the smaller capacity to be an issue.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

For awhile I too considered primary CR123 cells to be too expensive to use on a regular basis, and I went to RCR123's. Recently I have returned to the CR123 format as LED's have been become more efficient. Some of my favorite lights use the CR123, such as Henry's Ra's, and HDS's, and recently Gene Malkoff's CR123 format flashlights. However I am OT here, and we should return to the topic of this thread, the Elzetta, which we know is set up, primarily, for CR123 batteries.

Bill


----------



## ganymede

Not sure if this has been mentioned here, Elzetta is doing a special run on 2 cells ZLF-M60 in FDE: http://www.elzetta.com/Webpages/Limited%20Edition/Dark_Earth_ZFL-M60.htm


----------



## pjandyho

ganymede said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned here, Elzetta is doing a special run on 2 cells ZLF-M60 in FDE: http://www.elzetta.com/Webpages/Limited%20Edition/Dark_Earth_ZFL-M60.htm


Is the color they have there on the photo really dark earth as what they claimed it is? I always have the impression that dark earth should be somewhere near to brown?


----------



## chanjyj

I am still waiting... and waiting.. and waiting for their 500 lumen head!


----------



## ganymede

pjandyho said:


> Is the color they have there on the photo really dark earth as what they claimed it is? I always have the impression that dark earth should be somewhere near to brown?



Andy,

FDE on weapons and .mil equipment is equivalent to Tan/Sand on flashlight.


----------



## pjandyho

ganymede said:


> Andy,
> 
> FDE on weapons and .mil equipment is equivalent to Tan/Sand on flashlight.


I apologize bro, but I have no idea what FDE means. Care to help me out here?


----------



## donn_

FDE = Flat Dark Earth


----------



## tobrien

ganymede said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned here, Elzetta is doing a special run on 2 cells ZLF-M60 in FDE: http://www.elzetta.com/Webpages/Limited%20Edition/Dark_Earth_ZFL-M60.htm



That looks GOOD


— Sent from my unreleased, next generation iPad 44 running iOS 'M' (to be released in the year 2036) that Steve Jobs gave me personally using Tapatalk QuadHD 7 posted by TweetDeck 97.5.2.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

In the few weeks I've had my Oveready bored Elzetta, I have used it more than the year or however long I had my non bored Elzettas. I love guilt free lumens.


----------



## pjandyho

donn_ said:


> FDE = Flat Dark Earth


Thanks! I was guessing something dark earth but wasn't sure what the 'F' represented.


----------



## tobrien

pjandyho said:


> Thanks! I was guessing something dark earth but wasn't sure what the 'F' represented.



"Fancy" 


— Sent from my unreleased, next generation iPad 44 running iOS 'M' (to be released in the year 2036) that Steve Jobs gave me personally using Tapatalk QuadHD 7 posted by TweetDeck 97.5.2.


----------



## RI Chevy

A bored Elzetta is number one on my list to get. I plan on using 2 Sanyo -18500's.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Do 2X18500 fit in the three cell? 

I can confirm that 2xAA fit with delrin sleeve.


----------



## Grizzman

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Do 2X18500 fit in the three cell?
> 
> I can confirm that 2xAA fit with delrin sleeve.



I vaguely recall reading here that not all dual 18500 setups are usable in the 3-cell Elzettas. An Oveready-bored 3-cell is likely to be my next light purchase, especially if the 500 lumen head becomes a reality and has a useful beam pattern. 

I use dual AWs exclusively in my Malkoff MD3s and extended bored 6P.

Grizz


----------



## ganymede

pjandyho said:


> I apologize bro, but I have no idea what FDE means. Care to help me out here?



Sorry for the late reply.

Thanks to Donn for pointing it out.

"Flat" also means non-glossy, matte type of finish.


----------



## RI Chevy

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Do 2X18500 fit in the three cell?



I have a Surefire 9P that I had bored out by Oveready, and 2 Sanyo 18500's fit fine.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Im pretty sure one of the of the Oveready guys posted they don't fit. I could be totally wrong...


----------



## thedoc007

I finally bought my first Elzetta - one of the "flat dark earth" limited edition. The color is considerably darker than it looked on their website, which is a bit disappointing, but man they do feel solid. The first thing I did was throw it on the floor - not too many lights that I would feel comfortable with doing that. 










The fabric under the lights is a standard "khaki" color. The light for comparison is the Zebralight SC600 Mk II, as most of you already know. The Elzetta is smaller than I expected it to be also, and that is definitely a good thing.


----------



## pjandyho

Actually this is exactly what I thought dark earth should look like. I believe the color on their website is a "byproduct" of auto white balancing by the camera. The AWB feature would try to correct the color as near to white as possible. That was what sparked my question about the color previously.


----------



## thedoc007

pjandyho said:


> Actually this is exactly what I thought dark earth should look like. I believe the color on their website is a "byproduct" of auto white balancing by the camera. The AWB feature would try to correct the color as near to white as possible. That was what sparked my question about the color previously.



Others here described it as tan or sand colored...I was just clarifying for anyone else who might be interested that those statements are inaccurate. Definitely a lot darker than what it shows on their website. To me it seems like Elzetta should provide a reasonably accurate depiction of the color - I know it can't be perfect, since there are so many variables involved in displaying a color on a screen, but it is not even remotely close to the final product. Especially when the only difference from a stock light is an extra coating...


----------



## BenChiew

hey Doc, do you see signs of the cerakote coming off or markings?


----------



## thedoc007

Well, I have already beat it up a little...sliding it on a concrete floor will do that. But except where I have (semi-deliberately) abraded it, it is uniform, not peeling, cracking, or anything else.


----------



## tobrien

how's the Elzetta strobe mode? Is it REALLY disorienting? or is one of those that's so fast it might as well be constant on?

I'm seriously considering a 3-cell Elzetta High/Strobe tailcap with the M60 (non-flood). would you guys recommend this setup?

edit: and is it highly recommended to get it 18mm bored?


----------



## thedoc007

Whether or not you want it bored will depend on how often you use it, and if using rechargeables is important to you. Honestly, if you stick with the stock 200-odd lumen emitter, a couple (or 3) CR123s will last a while. If you use it a lot, though, it gets expensive - CR123s are a least a buck each, and can be quite a lot more depending on brand and where you buy them. If you do decide to get it bored, though, you will probably want the 2 cell version, so you can run a single 18650...I guess you could use a spacer, or a couple 18500s, but 18650 is definitely the ideal solution unless you really have to have the extra length for some reason. It gives you the best energy density, and avoids the pitfalls of running multiple cells in series. And the 2 cell version is short enough that you can just put it in a pocket if you want to.

Strobe mode is definitely not like constant on, but it doesn't bother me that much. But I don't seem to be all that sensitive to it in any light I've tried yet (the TM26 is the most disorienting so far, but that sucker is a 3500 lumen strobe) so I'm not sure my opinion has too much value to anyone else. 

As to the high/strobe non-flood option, that is exactly what I got, and I'm happy with it. I have plenty of other lights with low lows and more options - I wanted the Elzetta strictly as a tough/tactical light, and that setup is great for that purpose. If you plan to use it as an EDC, though, I'd definitely go with the high/low option. Sure, you lose strobe, but how often do you actually use it anyway? No one can tell you how you will use it - only you can answer that question.


----------



## twl

tobrien said:


> how's the Elzetta strobe mode? Is it REALLY disorienting? or is one of those that's so fast it might as well be constant on?
> 
> I'm seriously considering a 3-cell Elzetta High/Strobe tailcap with the M60 (non-flood). would you guys recommend this setup?
> 
> edit: and is it highly recommended to get it 18mm bored?



I have the Hi/Lo tailcap, which basically is like the Malkoff head-twist function, except it's on the tailcap. I recommend this configuration for the Elzetta.

I do not think strobe is useful for any application at all.

There are 16340 cells available to fit the normal cell body, and I think that a pair of 17500 will fit in the 3-cell Elzetta.


----------



## tobrien

thedoc007 said:


> Whether or not you want it bored will depend on how often you use it, and if using rechargeables is important to you. Honestly, if you stick with the stock 200-odd lumen emitter, a couple (or 3) CR123s will last a while. If you use it a lot, though, it gets expensive - CR123s are a least a buck each, and can be quite a lot more depending on brand and where you buy them. If you do decide to get it bored, though, you will probably want the 2 cell version, so you can run a single 18650...I guess you could use a spacer, or a couple 18500s, but 18650 is definitely the ideal solution unless you really have to have the extra length for some reason. It gives you the best energy density, and avoids the pitfalls of running multiple cells in series. And the 2 cell version is short enough that you can just put it in a pocket if you want to.
> 
> Strobe mode is definitely not like constant on, but it doesn't bother me that much. But I don't seem to be all that sensitive to it in any light I've tried yet (the TM26 is the most disorienting so far, but that sucker is a 3500 lumen strobe) so I'm not sure my opinion has too much value to anyone else.
> 
> As to the high/strobe non-flood option, that is exactly what I got, and I'm happy with it. I have plenty of other lights with low lows and more options - I wanted the Elzetta strictly as a tough/tactical light, and that setup is great for that purpose. If you plan to use it as an EDC, though, I'd definitely go with the high/low option. Sure, you lose strobe, but how often do you actually use it anyway? No one can tell you how you will use it - only you can answer that question.





twl said:


> I have the Hi/Lo tailcap, which basically is like the Malkoff head-twist function, except it's on the tailcap. I recommend this configuration for the Elzetta.
> 
> I do not think strobe is useful for any application at all.
> 
> There are 16340 cells available to fit the normal cell body, and I think that a pair of 17500 will fit in the 3-cell Elzetta.



thank you both very much! I appreciate yalls in-depth and thoughtful responses. 

@doc: that's an *extremely* good point about the 2 cell version arguably being better for the 18mm bore and I admittedly hadn't thought about that till you mentioned it (1500 mAh AW 18500 versus 3400 mAh AW 18650 = no brainer! i mean, with 2x 18500s we're only adding voltage. 18650 all the way haha). 

I'll hopefully be able to get both versions at some point, but I have big hands so I'll opt for the 3-cell but not get it bored, at least not yet, since I won't be using it nightly or anything. I should be fine with CR123 primaries 

doc, I'm in the same boat as you with regards to not being too affected by strobe modes. I do think that the 4Sevens strobe patterns is quite good though

@twl: gotcha, I may have to try both (tailcaps that is). I would like to have a low mode, but I guess I'm in the same boat as thedoc007 in that I really just want an all-out tactical light that can be used for defense if needed. I'll probably end up getting both tails to see what I like best at some point. I do have some 17500s so I can test those in the Elzetta if need be. I never thought about the 17500s idea lol

thank you both, twl and thedoc007, I really appreciate the help! If I get a 2-cell body at some point from Elzetta that's definitely getting a bore.


----------



## averagejoeamerican

Any reason why elzetta does not want to make a model that takes 18650's? I have a Zebra MKII and would love to have an elzetta that takes the same batteries.


----------



## BenChiew

averagejoeamerican said:


> Any reason why elzetta does not want to make a model that takes 18650's? I have a Zebra MKII and would love to have an elzetta that takes the same batteries.



Primary market for Elzetta is people that weapon mount. 18650 can't take the recoil.


----------



## pjandyho

averagejoeamerican said:


> Any reason why elzetta does not want to make a model that takes 18650's? I have a Zebra MKII and would love to have an elzetta that takes the same batteries.





BenChiew said:


> Primary market for Elzetta is people that weapon mount. 18650 can't take the recoil.


Not too sure about the weapon mounting and recoil part. I tend to think the spring on the drop-in should be able to handle the weapon's recoil.

Recoil aside, I believe the main reason has got to do with the battery type and how it handles adverse weather conditions. Primary lithium batteries are much more stable with adverse weather conditions like extreme cold than Li-Ion batteries. Of course, Elzetta could have provided a wider tube for use with 18650, but that would also cause the battery to rattle in the tube when slimmer CR123 primaries are used. Definitely not something you want in a tactical situation. For maximum reliability and safety in a tactical light, CR123 win hands down.


----------



## thedoc007

I think reliability is definitely the main reason - but since the light is tougher than any batteries you can put in it (likely that the cells, even primaries, will fail before the light does) I wish they would offer a ready made 18650 option. If they simply provided a sleeve for CR123s, like Olight does with some of their lights, the rattle wouldn't be an issue, and you would have the best of both worlds. I hope they are listening to us...we understand that primaries are the most reliable option, but that doesn't mean that no compromise is possible! I have to think sales would increase overnight if they made the change...


----------



## Oztorchfreak

Does anyone know when the higher output Elzetta is being released?

I too think that a sleeve for CR123s is a good idea to allow for 18650 battery support as it is in my Olight flashlights.

I am sure that sales would increase overnight, as quite a lot of people query the lack of 18650 battery support.

I have two Elzettas already but I am a bit concerned that the higher output head will chew quite a bit more battery time compared to the current models.



*CHEERS*


----------



## twl

Oveready is offering bored Elzetta bodies for those who want that.


----------



## Grizzman

They will also bore your host for $20.

Grizz


----------



## verysimple

650 lumens 2 cell and 900 lumens 3 cell are out now:
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2013/09/13/elzetta-introduces-high-output-options/


----------



## pjandyho

Damn! I just placed an order for a ZF-L M60 last week and it is still currently on transit to me, and today I read about the new 650 lumen head! So much for honesty and service to their customers. Couldn't they have taken the initiative to inform me that the new light would be out in a few day's time?


----------



## RI Chevy

Wow. It doesn't look like Malkoff is making the drop in anymore. 
The 2 cell is now known as the _*bravo*_ producing 650 OTF lumens. 
The 3 cell is now known as _*charlie*_ and produces 900 OTF lumens. 
All parts are fully interchangeable with older versions. The new head is proprietary.


----------



## verysimple

It was announced in January @CES
try to get a refund/exchange?



pjandyho said:


> Damn! I just placed an order for a ZF-L M60 last week and it is still currently on transit to me, and today I read about the new 650 lumen head! So much for honesty and service to their customers. Couldn't they have taken the initiative to inform me that the new light would be out in a few day's time?


----------



## tobrien

oh nice!


----------



## Xealot

Hmm interesting. I've been wanting an Elzetta for a while and this might finally push me over the edge!


----------



## chanjyj

I wonder if I use a 2 CR123s (7.4v) if the "AVS" voltage sensing chip will give me a 600 or 950 lumens.... or none at all.

Whatever the case is I've purchased one. I've been waiting a LONG time. Now either my M60N or M61 219 can be transferred to the Surefire 6P.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

I wonder if the new heads will run on 1x18650??


----------



## Random Dan

These new high-output lights definitely seem targeted at the SF P2X and P3X Fury


----------



## BenChiew

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I wonder if the new heads will run on 1x18650??


That is an interesting question.


----------



## tab665

dang, I was thinking about getting a M2 mini turbohead from oveready, but now im thinking this might be the way to go. hopefully someone will get one of the new models soon and post their thoughts on the beam.


----------



## twl

I guess the new Elzetta heads are all right, but I'd be just as happy to put a Malkoff M91A drop-in into my Elzetta 3-cell, and get 825 lumens OTF out of it, which is close enough in the real world to the new Elzetta "Charlie" head, and still retains the Malkoff drop-in interchangeability.


----------



## hron61

I ordered the 900 lumen 3 cell charlie version today. Should be here mid nx week. I will post my findings then.
I love how the head mates to all the older bodies and if you put the head on a 2 cell body it outputs 650 lumen and when you put it back on a 3 cell body it outputs 900 lumen.


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

I got a 2-cell with the new head. I was told by Elzetta that it will run off of a single 3.7 li-ion rechargeable or 2 RCRs, as it can accept up to 12 volts. 

Mine isn't hear yet, so I can't confirm, but I trust the manufacturer to know.


----------



## BenChiew

WilsonCQB1911 said:


> I got a 2-cell with the new head. I was told by Elzetta that it will run off of a single 3.7 li-ion rechargeable or 2 RCRs, as it can accept up to 12 volts.
> 
> Mine isn't hear yet, so I can't confirm, but I trust the manufacturer to know.



Really. The 3.7v battery option is nice to note


----------



## chanjyj

BenChiew said:


> Really. The 3.7v battery option is nice to note



Hmm. So my 17670 will give me 650 lumens. I wonder if 2 16340s at 7.4V will give 950 lumens, and if the voltage starts dropping if the light will go beserk


----------



## tobrien

twl said:


> I guess the new Elzetta heads are all right, but I'd be just as happy to put a Malkoff M91A drop-in into my Elzetta 3-cell, and get 825 lumens OTF out of it, which is close enough in the real world to the new Elzetta "Charlie" head, and still retains the Malkoff drop-in interchangeability.



I definitely follow your logic. In my usage though when I had an M91AW it was way floodier than I wanted/needed. It worked quite well of course (hey, it's a Malkoff!) but it was practically mule-like. That being said, if we've got more focused beam qualities at this number of lumens, I think I'd prefer to use Elzetta's design, but hopefully someone reviews one of these beasts soon enough on here


----------



## Grizzman

Since the new heads use optics instead of reflectors, I expect them to throw significantly further than an M61 SHO, which itself throws significantly further than an M91AW. 

My guess is a beam pattern similar to the Surefire E2DL Ultra, likely with brighter spill. They both have an XM-L behind an optic (which are generally utilized with small die LEDs. 

Grizz


----------



## tobrien

Grizzman said:


> Since the new heads use optics instead of reflectors, I expect them to throw significantly further than an M61 SHO, which itself throws significantly further than an M91AW.
> 
> My guess is a beam pattern similar to the Surefire E2DL Ultra, likely with brighter spill. They both have an XM-L behind an optic (which are generally utilized with small die LEDs.
> 
> Grizz



I'm hoping what you're saying is what turns out to be the case. that'd be awesome


----------



## SMT

I got my new AVS heads. I am putting one on a 2 cell and one on a 3 cell body. Top is the old 235 lumen head bottom is the new head both on the 3 cell body. Both photos shot at 1/100 sec f4. According to the camera metering the new head is about 2 stops more light.







Note that there was a warning on the box that if you had a High/Strobe tailcap it had to be sent to Elzetta to be serviced to use with the new head.


----------



## Kaban

I hope someone can make a full review on this asap.

I currently have a 3-CELL Elezetta with an M91 dropin. One of my favorite lights. If these new heads offer great throw, I will get another 3 cell flashlight so I can have two. Yes, I love it that much.


----------



## Grizzman

What I think I'm seeing in the beamshot isn't what I was expecting (hoping). It seems to be very similar to an M61, with an intense spot surrounded by bright spill with an undefined outer edge. Is this correct?

SMT, do you have any other Malkoff engines with which to give a verbal, or photographic, comparison?

Grizz


----------



## Kaban

There is alot more spill than I expected with an optical lens judging by these two pics.


----------



## 880arm

SMT said:


> I got my new AVS heads. I am putting one on a 2 cell and one on a 3 cell body. Top is the old 235 lumen head bottom is the new head both on the 3 cell body. Both photos shot at 1/100 sec f4. According to the camera metering the new head is about 2 stops more light.
> 
> Note that there was a warning on the box that if you had a High/Strobe tailcap it had to be sent to Elzetta to be serviced to use with the new head.



Way to make your first post count! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## SMT

Grizzman said:


> What I think I'm seeing in the beamshot isn't what I was expecting (hoping). It seems to be very similar to an M61, with an intense spot surrounded by bright spill with an undefined outer edge. Is this correct?
> 
> SMT, do you have any other Malkoff engines with which to give a verbal, or photographic, comparison?
> 
> Grizz



I have the two cell Elzetta with the new head beamshot with the same exposure as above







I have another Elzetta with the flood lens, A G2L with theTNVC drop-in (Q5 Cree LED Lamp)and a Streamlight TLR1 . I am thinking of getting another Elzetta with the new head to replace the G2L on my AR.


----------



## Kaban

SMT, It's hard to tell by the pics, but in real life how good does the new head throw? The pics are either very misleading or there is really alot of spill with the new lens which is odd for an optic.


----------



## chanjyj

Kaban said:


> SMT, It's hard to tell by the pics, but in real life how good does the new head throw? The pics are either very misleading or there is really alot of spill with the new lens which is odd for an optic.



It certainly isn't odd for an optic.


----------



## Kaban

chanjyj said:


> It certainly isn't odd for an optic.


Maybe I am confusing the two, but is aspherical lens and optical lens not the same thing?

I was expecting this to be like a Dereelight with minimal spill.


----------



## chanjyj

Kaban said:


> Maybe I am confusing the two, but is aspherical lens and optical lens not the same thing?
> 
> I was expecting this to be like a Dereelight with minimal spill.



They are 2 different things. The one Elzetta uses is a TIR optic. The one you're referring to in the Dereelight is an aspherical optic. Both are optics, but different optics.


----------



## Kaban

Even if its a TIR.... Why is there so much spill? My ub3t has almost zero spill with that TIR.


----------



## chanjyj

Kaban said:


> Even if its a TIR.... Why is there so much spill? My ub3t has almost zero spill with that TIR.



The UB3T uses a fresnel lens (yes, also a TIR). However if you compare the size of your UB3T's TIR optic to the size of the Elzetta's optic you'll get what I mean.


----------



## Grizzman

I found an online review at shootingreviews.com that included a couple outdoor beam shots of the Charlie version. The spill appears to be quite large and usable (vs minimal with the M60). The tint is also warmer than that of the M60.

I finally got around to ordering a non-crenulated head for my 2-cell light today, and decided to add a Charlie to the order. 

Grizz


----------



## Patrik

Today I recieved my Elzetta 3-cell and the new head of 900 lumens. Reading the Review above I understand that the new version does not compete with the old one that I also have, because if I understand it correctly the runtime of the old high 2-cell was usefull for about 7-8 hours and the new version seems to have less. As a matter of fact the 235 lumen head was very usefull when used Close up, I had the flood version. Definately bright enough for my uses. So the new version, much brighter but paying for it in runtime? I`ll leave my 900 lumen at my door, just beeing able to grab it for when I need lots of lumens, and the 235 version when camping outdoors for that extra runtime. By the way the new beam seems to be a good balance between throw and spill and to no surprise much more throw then my 235 flood version. All in all, two different flashlights for different uses not in competition with each other IMHO. Oh and I havent had a 3-cell flashlight for years, I really like the length of it, although to big for EDC.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

If someone can try the new head on a single Lithium Ion I would appreciate it. Especially to see how 1xLiIon compares to 2xCR123

Thanks in advance.


----------



## BenChiew

PoliceScannerMan said:


> If someone can try the new head on a single Lithium Ion I would appreciate it. Especially to see how 1xLiIon compares to 2xCR123
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Not many people have a bored 2 cell Elzetta body. Unless they have a 17670 battery that can go into a standard Elzetta body.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

BenChiew said:


> Not many people have a bored 2 cell Elzetta body. Unless they have a 17670 battery that can go into a standard Elzetta body.



Ha, that's why I said 1xLiIon and not 18650.


----------



## BenChiew

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Ha, that's why I said 1xLiIon and not 18650.



I am also steadfastly awaiting confirmation if the new head will run on a single. 
Guess we are in the same boat. Lol


----------



## tab665

I cant seem to find the review I found on these. but in it, the reviewer was doing a runtime test on high and it took him 3 tries to turn off the 3 cell 950 lumen version because the light was too hot to graqb the tailcap. definitely need to go with a low/high option on that one.


----------



## Grizzman

I would expect any 900 lumen light with a reasonably sized head to get severely hot when turned on and left on, with no attempt to pull heat out of it besides natural convection.

The simple act of holding the light in ones hand may be enough to keep the heat at a tolerable (though still likely hot) level.

I plan to find out when mine arrives.

Grizz


----------



## Tracker II

Man, the bezel on that thing looks like it could take out a good chunk of skullcap. 

Can anyone provide, or describe, a beam shot comparison with the Malkoff Hound Dog?


----------



## tobrien

Tracker II said:


> Can anyone provide, or describe, a beam shot comparison with the Malkoff Hound Dog?



good thought, I do wonder now how the HD compares


----------



## twl

While I do recognize that there will be differences between the Elzetta optical system vs the Hound Dog, my observation is that the Elzetta is 1.45" diameter head with 900 lumens, and the Hound Dog is 1.8" diameter head with 1150 lumens, both probably having XML or XML2 emitter. I expect the Hound Dog to throw further based on these specifications. But, the throw to spill proportion may be different. I do know that the Hound Dog has a very strong and wide and useful spill area in the current versions.
I would be surprised if the new Elzetta head could match the Hound Dog in any aspect, but it may be reasonably close enough that some could consider it to be equivalent "enough" for their particular tastes and use.


----------



## Grizzman

I just received a shipping notification from Elzetta for the Charlie, and it should arrive by Saturday. I can compare it with my Surefire E2D Ultra and Hound Dog.

Grizz


----------



## Kaban

Why does Elzetta never really post any specs like runtime, etc. of their heads?


----------



## delus

Hey, newbie here on the forum.
I joined the forum looking for help after being repeatedly frustrated by broken lights... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...eeded-less-modes-ON-AND-OFF-THAT-S-ALL-I-NEED
I didn't even know the Elzetta high output head was just becoming available when i ordered Sunday night. I've got a 2-cell Bravo with high-low on the way. Got my name and phone number engraved on it. I don't have anything to compare it to because all three are broken.
 
This lens is completely different than previous versions. They say they will soon have a wide-dispersion (flood) lens with this head.
Elzetta is now manufacturing their own head/lens combination for the high-output head. Malkoff will still supply the 235 lumen head.
Looks like the low profile (1.25 inch) bezel will never be an option when combined with the high output head. You're stuck at 1.45 inch. 
Elzetta is strongly focused on the tactical users, and just doesn't provide the complete info that flashlight junkies NEED. 
Been looking for two days and I still don't know what the lumen rating is supposed to be when set on low.

I want to use rechargeable batteries and Thank You in advance for any additional info in that area.

Am I a flashlight junkie? For the last few days I certainly have been, but if this light is as good as I think it will be, I'm pretty much set for life.
One and Done.


----------



## blackbalsam

Got a shipping notice for my 2-cell Bravo today


----------



## Grizzman

Delus, going from your past lights up to the Elzetta is going to be a revelation. They are exceptionally well made and durable tools.

If you'd like the option of a slimmer head in addition to the larger AVS one, you can order a standard Elzetta head (even the low profile one) and buy a Malkoff standard or high output drop-in for use in it. 

Malkoff's lovely-tinted M91AW puts out 700 lumens, with a huge spot and great spill. This should make a great team, with the likely great throwing AVS head.

Grizz


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Cant help but wonder if this will be 900L on 2x16340. 

EDIT: Couldn't stand it anymore, order placed for one High Output AVS Head (650-Lumen with 2-Cell Body, 900-Lumen with 3-Cell Body).

Can't wait to run this on 1x18650 or 2x18350 with my Oveready bored host. :rock:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Holy Cow! Shipping notice received, 40 minutes from order to shipping notice. Awesome, I may have this beauty Saturday!


----------



## BenChiew

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Cant help but wonder if this will be 900L on 2x16340.
> 
> EDIT: Couldn't stand it anymore, order placed for one High Output AVS Head (650-Lumen with 2-Cell Body, 900-Lumen with 3-Cell Body).
> 
> Can't wait to run this on 1x18650 or 2x18350 with my Oveready bored host. :rock:



I will be awaiting anxiously too.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

BenChiew said:


> I will be awaiting anxiously too.



Thank Ben. Upon tracking, looks like they shipped first class. Wah wah. Probably wont get it until Monday. $6.95 for first class is not cool. 

However with that said, I'm still impressed with the quick turnaround from ordering to shipping. 

Whoever lands one of these first, sounds like the optic pops right out, that way we can see if this puppy is a XML or XML2. 

Who's gonna be first to mod their's?


----------



## 880arm

PoliceScannerMan said:


> . . . Couldn't stand it anymore, order placed for one High Output AVS Head (650-Lumen with 2-Cell Body, 900-Lumen with 3-Cell Body). . .



I'm the same way. I pulled the trigger last night and ordered the 3-cell version along with an extra 2-cell body. It shipped this morning and, according to USPS, it should arrive Saturday. I'm only 200 miles away so hopefully they will beat their estimate!


----------



## hron61

ok i'll play.
i popped the bezel and optic off and here is what i found. 
maybe someone with more knowledge can tell what the led is.


----------



## HaileStorm

hron61 said:


> ok i'll play.
> i popped the bezel and optic off and here is what i found.
> maybe someone with more knowledge can tell what the led is.



Looks like an xm-l2 to me... Don't take my word for it though, i'm no expert.


----------



## pjandyho

Other than the cup shape blocking the full spread of the light's path, would the high output head make a good mule light without the optic? Just thinking.


----------



## Random Dan

HaileStorm said:


> Looks like an xm-l2 to me... Don't take my word for it though, i'm no expert.


I believe you're right. If it was an XM-L it would have a green board.


----------



## Grizzman

pjandyho said:


> Other than the cup shape blocking the full spread of the light's path, would the high output head make a good mule light without the optic? Just thinking.



I was thinking the exact same thing.


----------



## hron61

i just put some diffuser film on it and...OMG!!

this would make a great shotgun light, it has a massive wall of light coming out of the end of it.

grizz, i just read your pm's. yep i got it and congrats on the sale of the m60 mce.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

That is a XM-L2, awesome! So is this thing more of a thrower since you threw diffuser tape on there?


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

hron61 said:


> i just put some diffuser film on it and...OMG!!
> 
> this would make a great shotgun light, it has a massive wall of light coming out of the end of it.
> 
> grizz, i just read your pm's. yep i got it and congrats on the sale of the m60 mce.



What diffuser did you use? What fits on this thing?


----------



## Grizzman

According to stamps.com, my Charlie went out for delivery this morning......and I'm still working in the office. 

I think Ron just applied a diffusing film to the optic of the light, not a separate removable diffuser.

Grizz


----------



## Grizzman

Stamps.com did not lie. There was a box from Elzetta Design sitting in my mailbox.

As expected, the quality is every bit as good as that of my 2 year old 2-Cell model. 

The tint is far superior to what I was expecting. It makes my M61SHO (which I consider to have a very good tint for a cool Malkoff) look solidly blue in comparison.

The beam pattern is unlike any other light I own, or have ever owned. At indoor distances, if you imagined an M61 with a spot 2/3 as large, with primary spill 1/3 as large, and secondary dimmer spill doubling the primary spill diameter (can perform actual measurements or take beam shots later tonight) you'd be pretty close to what I'm seeing.

There is not a separate lens in front of the optic. The optic butts up against an o-ring in the bezel unit, not unlike the design of the Valiant Concepts VME head.

Informal ux measurements at 1 yard are:

4930 lux - M61 SHO (3 primaries)
3411 lux - M60 (2 18500s)
7430 lux - E2DL (2 RCR123s)
8480 lux - Surefire LX2 (2 RCR123s)
13790 lux - Elzetta Charlie (3 primaries)
14880 lux - Elzetta Charlie (2 17500s)
17680 lux - Surefire E2DL Ultra (2 RCR123s)
19160 lux - Neutral Hound Dog (2 18650s)

In a Bravo configuration at 1 yard:

8840 lux - 2 primaries
5790 lux - 1 17670 
14500 lux - 2 RCR123s

One more thing to add......it's damn awesome. 

Grizz


----------



## blackbalsam

Just got my 2-cell Bravo today - very happy


----------



## delus

Got My Bravo!
Is it bright? Plenty! The low setting is just about exactly the same brightness as my 20 year old Maglite 2xAA LED. Maybe someone could provide a lumen rating for a bravo on low. 
Is it tough? I'll take your word for it. It will get real-world tested soon enough.

Does it have my name and phone number engraved on it? Yes it does. Who knows, I might just get lucky if I ever lose it. But, I thought engraving meant the letters were actually etched into the surface. It's painted on, not engraved. My request was "property of Joe Delus 555-555-5555. The put my name is in larger letters in the middle and "Property of" and "555-555-5555" in small letters, top and bottom. I didn't ask for that, but if I would have thought about it, that's exactly the way I would have done it.

Seems like it won't output light unless the head is screwed down 100 percent tight. Is that a lockout feature because the button can be pressed accidentally?
I love that the button is ON-OFF and the high-low selection is separate. That's exactly how it should be.

I'm wondering what would happen if I paint the outside of the lens with some glow-in-the-dark paint. I think the alkyd paint i have will handle the heat. Don't think it will ruin the lens either. Hmmmm..... Maybe just the inside ring of the bezel.

---> Delus goes to see if his O-ring assortment has the right size to fit around the body for some extra grip.


----------



## tobrien

congrats to yall on receiving the latest Elzetta lights!


----------



## delus

BOO. Seven minutes on high and my Tenergy RCR123A's got too hot and shut themselves off.
The package says low-mode is 15 lumens, but I'm still not convinced. It's the same number they gave for the 235 lumen malkoff head on low. I don't think it's been updated for the high output head.


----------



## RI Chevy

Where's all the pics? Come on guys. We want pics. 

Sounds like a very promising head.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Thank you everyone for your comments.


----------



## dan05gt

Mine arrived today. I got the Charlie with high/low tailcap: 900 lumens on high, 30 lumens on low. 12,200cd. I really like the UI. I think this is now my favorite flashlight. I have lots of Surefires and Streamlights, which I really like, but there is something about the quality and simplicity of this Elzetta that just makes it seem different. Maybe in a few days it will seem like one of the rest of the lights, but for now it just seems "better".


----------



## chanjyj

Grizzman said:


> Stamps.com did not lie. There was a box from Elzetta Design sitting in my mailbox.
> 
> As expected, the quality is every bit as good as that of my 2 year old 2-Cell model.
> 
> The tint is far superior to what I was expecting. It makes my M61SHO (which I consider to have a very good tint for a cool Malkoff) look solidly blue in comparison.
> 
> The beam pattern is unlike any other light I own, or have ever owned. At indoor distances, if you imagined an M61 with a spot 2/3 as large, with primary spill 1/3 as large, and secondary dimmer spill doubling the primary spill diameter (can perform actual measurements or take beam shots later tonight) you'd be pretty close to what I'm seeing.
> 
> There is not a separate lens in front of the optic. The optic butts up against an o-ring in the bezel unit, not unlike the design of the Valiant Concepts VME head.
> 
> Informal ux measurements at 1 yard are:
> 
> 4930 lux - M61 SHO (3 primaries)
> 13790 lux - Elzetta Charlie (3 primaries)
> 13970 lux - Elzetta Charlie (2 17500s)
> 17680 lux - Surefire E2DL Ultra (2 RCR123s)
> 19160 lux - Neutral Hound Dog (2 18650s)
> 
> In a Bravo configuration at 1 yard:
> 
> 8840 lux - two primaries
> 5790 lux - one 17670
> 
> One more thing to add......it's damn awesome.
> 
> Grizz



Oh hold on. The M60 is 16700lux and the "Bravo" on the x01 17670 is 5790lux? *faints*


----------



## twl

chanjyj said:


> Oh hold on. The M60 is 16700lux and the "Bravo" on the x01 17670 is 5790lux? *faints*



Don't faint.
The M60 isn't really 16k lux. It has been tested in other tests, and it is also around that 5700 lux mark. The M60 was a nice small P60 thrower in the old days, and it's still fairly decent for reasonable throw from a small light, but it's not the leader for that by any means. I still have my M60 in my Elzetta 3-cell, and it will give a nice throw and useful beam for 4.5 hours of use on 3 cells. I like this combination, even if it isn't the latest technology.
The M60 will realistically throw about 150 yards in real life tests in my yard, and the cool XML2 Hound Dog will throw about 275 yards in the same circumstances.


----------



## Grizzman

16000 lux for an M60 doesnt' seem reasonable to me. A fresh test of my 500 lumen XM-L E2DL Ultra just gave 17730 lux.

My M60 may be a little weaker than others. I just measured it at 3411 lux, while my E2DL did 7430 and my LX2 did 8480. These results have been added to the above post.

Grizz


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Looks like mine will show up today!


----------



## chanjyj

Grizzman said:


> 16000 lux for an M60 doesnt' seem reasonable to me. A fresh test of my 500 lumen XM-L E2DL Ultra just gave 17730 lux.
> 
> My M60 may be a little weaker than others. I just measured it at 3411 lux, while my E2DL did 7430 and my LX2 did 8480. These results have been added to the above post.
> 
> Grizz



Thanks for the measurements 
Still waiting for my head (sic) to arrive on my doorstep... it's been a while now.


----------



## Grizzman

I personally wouldn't call the head throwy, since it is more like the Neutral V4 Wilcat than the Hound Dog. It illuminates a good portion of a large tree at across the yard distances (without the broad spill of the Hound Dog), yet has the strong spot (from the optic) that allows it to reach out quire well. I need to take it to a dark neighborhood park one of these nights.

I forgot to report that I did a realistic heat test last night also. I put the head onto the Charlie with primaries, turned it on and used it for real life around the house tasks (including setting it down occasionally to use both hands).

After 20 minutes, I'd call the body between warm and very warm. I was able to hold the light by the head without discomfort. 

If I remember correctly, the head didn't get above 115 degrees, and the body was roughly 107 near the head. I removed the head within a couple of minutes of shutting off the light, and the front cell was somewhere around 107 degrees.

Grizz


----------



## Grizzman

Duplicate.


----------



## Grizzman

delus said:


> BOO. Seven minutes on high and my Tenergy RCR123A's got too hot and shut themselves off.



I'm going to see if I can duplicate this result. I'm going to put the head onto a 2-Cell body with a couple AW RCR123s to see how long till it shuts off.

I stopped the test after 20 minutes. The rear of the head measured 111 degrees, and the front cell was 107.

Grizz


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Touchdown, I like!!! 









Comparison shots, AVS head running on 1x18650 (Oveready bored Elzetta host) 

M361N on high on top, Elzetta AVS bottom




Neutral Malkoff WildCat on high running 2x18650, Elzetta AVS bottom




Oveready Mini Turbohead Surefire M2/XML2/DD top, Elzetta AVS bottom


----------



## 880arm

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Touchdown, I like!!!



Nice job with the pics!

My Charlie with Hi/Lo switch and spare Bravo body arrived this morning. If they add any more features and specs they will need some larger packaging!







I'm hoping to get some beamshots tonight and begin working on a review but first I've got to get rid of a kidney stone. It has just about beaten me into submission :mecry:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Thanks! It goes without saying that my iPhone camera only picks up the "Spot" and immediate corona, and not the spill. I cannot wait until dark!!!


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice pics. Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:


----------



## dano

I received an AVS head, and there's a caution sticker on it that says not to use the head with a hi/strobe tail cap that hasn't been sent to Elzetta for service. I have an email in asking for more specifics. Until then, my AVS head isn't being used.


----------



## 880arm

I managed to get out and take a few photos of beamshots tonight, comparing the new Elzetta high-output heads against several other well known lights. The optic in the Elzetta does a good job of balancing throw versus spill and the LED has a nice tint. 












I will be working on a full review over the next few days but, in the meantime, I have posted some side-by-side beamshot comparisons with other lights such as the Malkoff M60, SureFire EB2, SureFire Fury, Malkoff Hound Dog, etc.


----------



## Maxbelg

880arm said:


> .............side-by-side beamshot comparisons ........



Thanks a million for doing that!!!


----------



## Maxbelg

PoliceScannerMan said:


> .....
> Oveready Mini Turbohead Surefire M2/XML2/DD top, Elzetta AVS bottom



Thanks for this! I was especially wondering about the comparison to my favorite light of this size: The Oveready Mini Turbohead Surefire M2/XML2/DD. It seems to be still in a different class but of course it doesn't have a low.


----------



## chanjyj

Grizzman said:


> Informal ux measurements at 1 yard are:
> 
> 4930 lux - M61 SHO (3 primaries)
> 3411 lux - M60 (2 18500s)
> 7430 lux - E2DL (2 RCR123s)
> 8480 lux - Surefire LX2 (2 RCR123s)
> 13790 lux - Elzetta Charlie (3 primaries)
> 13970 lux - Elzetta Charlie (2 17500s)
> 17680 lux - Surefire E2DL Ultra (2 RCR123s)
> 19160 lux - Neutral Hound Dog (2 18650s)
> 
> In a Bravo configuration at 1 yard:
> 
> 8840 lux - two primaries
> 5790 lux - one 17670
> 
> One more thing to add......it's damn awesome.
> 
> Grizz



Grizzman, would you mind doing me a favour and measuring it on Bravo configuration with 2 RCR123s?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

I am very happy with this new head, as others have said, the beam has a nice blend of flood and throw. It is plenty bright on 1x18650, I don't see myself running 2x18350 much. Perhaps these new AVS heads will create demand for Oveready to do another run of bored hosts?


----------



## delus

*Do you feel lucky?*

The new lens is just as impressive as the rest of the flashlight. Solid acrylic, it should be just as indestructible as the rest. 
I feel lucky to have it. I noticed that when you have it on low, and shine on something at very close range, there is a little four-leaf clover at the center of the beam.

In reply to Grizzman, I tried to duplicate it and could not. What can I say? I'm a newbie and it shows.


----------



## Grizzman

chanjyj said:


> Grizzman, would you mind doing me a favour and measuring it on Bravo configuration with 2 RCR123s?



Sure. It measured at 14500 lux with two AW RCR123s. This is higher than all previous results, so I retested with a couple 17500s and got 14880 lux. It's getting a little stronger as it's breaking in?  

I can measure all the above again, with freshly charged cells and exact distances.

Delus, your cell going into protection is likely just bad luck.....or an iffy cell.....not newbness.

Grizz


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

Just got my bravo. Haven't had a chance to play with it yet. But did notice the inside of the optic has a ring around it like from tool arks and there are some finger prints in it as well. Kind of disappointing at this price point, but it doesn't hurt the beam I don't think.


----------



## hron61

Shouldnt be an issue, just loosen the bezel ring some and the marks should disappear. its where the lens touches the lens holder. no damage.


----------



## Grizzman

If the bezel ring is slightly loosened, the dark ring will disappear and return when tightened again. It seems to be from contact between the inside of the head and the white sleeve part, or maybe from Ron's idea....not sure. 

Grizz


----------



## hron61

i had the same issue and emailed elzetta with the news and that was the answer i was given, i did just that and all was good again.


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

hron61 said:


> Shouldnt be an issue, just loosen the bezel ring some and the marks should disappear. its where the lens touches the lens holder. no damage.



Thanks for the info. I'm not going to mess with it at all since it's working fine and the beam seems great. I tried it out with a 16650 and it runs great. I can't tell a difference in output between the singe li-ion or 2 CR123s, but I imagine that there must be some difference.


----------



## Patrik

Now I have had some outdoor use of the earlier Malkoff 235 lumen vs the new AVS-head. And for my personal use, outdoors and EDC the earlier setup is much better. The new head is larger and heavier and puts out more lumens, but the 235 lumen version although not new is more then sufficient. 235 and 15 lumens are enough for all my needs, I do not have the Equipment to do runtime graphs, but very subjectively the 235 lumen version just keeps going and going on high while the burntime for the AVS is noticable shorter. And I prefer the tint of the Malkoff version, coolwhite on high and slight greenish on low. Not a big fan of the warmer AVS. And the simplicity of the malkoff module just feels so solid. By the way, will ELzetta continue with malkoff? Wondering since the new bodys dont say malkoff devices? Will AVS eventually replace malkoff?


----------



## dano

policescannerman, what clip is on yours?


----------



## chanjyj

Grizzman said:


> Sure. It measured at 14500 lux with two AW RCR123s. This is higher than all previous results, so I retested with a couple 17500s and got 14880 lux. It's getting a little stronger as it's breaking in?
> 
> I can measure all the above again, with freshly charged cells and exact distances.
> 
> Delus, your cell going into protection is likely just bad luck.....or an iffy cell.....not newbness.
> 
> Grizz



Thanks alot Grizz. No need for exact distances/fresh cells. I was curious as to the voltage/lumen ratio the PCB would give.

Interesting results, and I'm still waiting for my shipment to arrive :shakehead
It seems that 7.4 volts is enough for the "AVS" head to give you 900 lumens.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

dano said:


> policescannerman, what clip is on yours?



Moddo Ti clip.


----------



## Random Dan

This new head looks sweet! Kinda disappointing on 1xLi-Ion though. Oh and to clear up the M60 Lux measurement thing...



Jay T said:


> Just to clarify this was in my "Saturday Afternoon Special" Light box. My attempt to measure total light output.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not to be confused with the 1 meter readings used by others to measure spot intensity. Same units, different tests.
> 
> If you take the reading I get for a Novatac 120, 7.7 and normalize that to be equal to 120 lumens (Novatac's are supposed to be somewhat accurate in their ratings). Then the boxes reading of 12.3 for the Fenix P3D Q5 would translate to 192 lumens. I think Chevrofreak registered 196 in his light box so I am might be in the ballpark.
> 
> Now this Malkoff Device registered 16.7 in the box which translates to over 250 lumens! Let me stress THIS IS NOT AN EXACT MEASUREMENT. My number relies on my Novatac being a true 120 and the double check with my Fenix be close in performance to the one Chevrofreak used. Please don't go quoting this approximation in other threads.
> 
> Any way I think this little bugger might be on steroids.


----------



## Grizzman

I was also disappointed at my result from a single 17670, so I just measured it again. This time I used a different cell, fresh off the charger, and got 9940 lux.  This is higher than the previous test with two primaries (which did have some use on them).

A box of Surefire CR123 have been shipped, so I will test it with brand new cells after they arrive. I don't have any at the moment that are completely unused.


----------



## 880arm

The new head is a winner. I took some time to do runtime tests today and was pleasantly surprised with the results.

When using the Bravo body and 2xCR123's output remained at or above *95%* for almost an entire hour. It then began a long taper and hit the 10% mark somewhere around 105 minutes, well beyond its advertised 90 minute runtime.

With the Charlie body and 3xCR123's it did a respectable job of maintaining at least 85% of its initial output for just under an hour. It then fell out of regulation and began a taper down to approximately the same output as the 2 cell configuration. It held this level for around 10 minutes and then began another long taper as the batteries were depleted. In this one test, the 3 cell configuration came up a few minutes short of reaching its advertised one hour 45 minute runtime (to 10%). However, considering the margin of error that's probably built in to my homemade testing rig I think it got close enough.

When comparing output between the two configurations, the 3-cell configuration starts out about 150% of the 2-cell output. Not too shabby.







As reported by others, these lights do get hot when run continuously. In the 2-cell "Bravo" configuration, the temperatures are similar, but slightly lower than I tested with the P2X Fury. Over the course of the runtime test I measured the temperature at the head and at the mid-point of the body, with the highest temps occurring after just over one hour of runtime - 121.5F at the head and 115.5F on the body. Definitely getting hot but not too hot to hold.






Naturally, in the "Charlie" configuration, it got quite a bit warmer - rising as high as 139.5F at the head and 132F at the mid-point of the body.






It should be noted that these temperatures were achieved while the light was sitting in a holder, with little or no airflow around it, so they most likely aren't indicative of real-world results. The holder does act as a heat-sink, drawing some heat away from the body, but I doubt it's the same as holding the light in hand or mounting it to a weapon. I would imagine a little bit of air movement would make a big difference. Aside from that, these are tactical lights and weren't really designed to be left laying around for an hour in high mode.

I've owned a Malkoff M60 for a couple of years so I never felt the need to purchase an Elzetta with the same drop-in, despite all the good things I heard about them. If I have any regret, it's that I waited as long as I did. They make some nice stuff!


----------



## KeeblerElf

Great info, 880! Thanks for taking the time to do these tests and post the results! I might just have to pick up one of these for myself... 

I'm also interested in the performance on 1x18650, if anyone feels like testing that configuration with a bored host. Very excited about this new head!


----------



## 880arm

I forgot to mention that the new heads measure 1.46" at the bezel which is almost the same as the SureFire M2, L5, L7, 8AX, 8NX, U2, and M95x weapon lights. This means if you have any old FM6x series filters laying around you can put them to use on the new Elzetta. 

I tried it and the filters fit fine but are just a little bit loose. It probably wouldn't fall off on its own but it's not quite as secure as it is on the M2. Should be an easy fix :thumbsup:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

KeeblerElf said:


> I'm also interested in the performance on 1x18650, if anyone feels like testing that configuration with a bored host.



I am unequipped to do an awesome graph like above, maybe I can just run it visually?


----------



## KeeblerElf

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I am unequipped to do an awesome graph like above, maybe I can just run it visually?



That would be great! I'm sure your personal observations would give me all the info I would use anyway. Plus, it might just give me an excuse to buy one.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

KeeblerElf said:


> That would be great! I'm sure your personal observations would give me all the info I would use anyway. Plus, it might just give me an excuse to buy one.



Ok in the next few days I will top off my 3400 AW and let her rip.


----------



## KeeblerElf

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Ok in the next few days I will top off my 3400 AW and let her rip.



Thanks, PSM!


----------



## tobrien

thanks a million for those graphs 880arm!


----------



## precisionworks

KeeblerElf said:


> ... I'm also interested in the performance on 1x18650, if anyone feels like testing that configuration with a bored host ...



I did a runtime graph in February 2013 on the SF Fury P2X, a 500 lumen light according to SF:









Battery was a new & freshly charged 3400 mA Panasonic cell. Roughly 1.5 hours in regulation before a long taper down to 50 lumens where I stopped the test. Total runtime of 2.4 hours (145 minutes). My current Fury is 600+ lumens & should show about the same output as the Bravo Elzetta. I'll retest with my current Fury & do another graph - comparing the Bravo to the Fury should be interesting.

Regarding the emitter in the Bravo & Charlie models, is it XM-L or XM-L2?


----------



## chanjyj

*rant on* Oh, how much longer do I have to wait to test out this light damnit? I've been waiting YEARS for them to come out with the new head and now that it's out USPS decides to pull a fast one *rant off*


----------



## Random Dan

precisionworks said:


> Regarding the emitter in the Bravo & Charlie models, is it XM-L or XM-L2?


It's an XM-L2. Check out this pic from a couple pages ago:



hron61 said:


> ok i'll play.
> i popped the bezel and optic off and here is what i found.
> maybe someone with more knowledge can tell what the led is.


----------



## pjandyho

chanjyj said:


> *rant on* Oh, how much longer do I have to wait to test out this light damnit? I've been waiting YEARS for them to come out with the new head and now that it's out USPS decides to pull a fast one *rant off*


What is "processed through office of exchange"? Never notice this whenever I am trekking shipment from the US.


----------



## 880arm

chanjyj said:


> *rant on* Oh, how much longer do I have to wait to test out this light damnit? I've been waiting YEARS for them to come out with the new head and now that it's out USPS decides to pull a fast one *rant off*



Is that screen shot from Stamps.com? If so, have you tried checking for your package on the USPS website? I mention this because sometimes it gives more accurate or specific information than external sites. It won't help you get your light any faster but maybe it will have some information that will make you feel better


----------



## chanjyj

pjandyho said:


> What is "processed through office of exchange"? Never notice this whenever I am trekking shipment from the US.



I haven't a clue. This is the first time I've seen it too.


880arm said:


> Is that screen shot from Stamps.com? If so, have you tried checking for your package on the USPS website? I mention this because sometimes it gives more accurate or specific information than external sites. It won't help you get your light any faster but maybe it will have some information that will make you feel better



Thanks for the tip. Apparently USPS says it's in Australia now and there is no evidence of that "office of exchange" thing anywhere. What an oddity.


----------



## pjandyho

chanjyj said:


> I haven't a clue. This is the first time I've seen it too.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip. Apparently USPS says it's in Australia now and there is no evidence of that "office of exchange" thing anywhere. What an oddity.


Maybe it just meant exchange of agencies? You know, like from USPS over to the Australian post? That's why they told you it is in Australia when you called USPS.


----------



## precisionworks

880arm said:


> Is that screen shot from Stamps.com? If so, have you tried checking for your package on the USPS website? I mention this because sometimes it gives more accurate or specific information than external sites. It won't help you get your light any faster but maybe it will have some information that will make you feel better


+1

When tracking an Intl package stamps.com says "PROCESSED THROUGH OFFICE OF EXCHANGE" while USPS tracking says"Processed Through Sort Facility/Australia"

USPS is trying to emulate UPS & Fedex re: tracking. A year ago the package wasn't trackable at all on USPS. Fedex & UPS are better on Intl but cost twice as much.


----------



## Jakeyb

I've always wondered about elzetta maybe this one should be my first?


----------



## pjandyho

Wonder if there will be another shotgun and slamming on steel plate video on the new high output series?


----------



## jorn

Well this time it dont got a malkoff module. The old elzetta torture video only shows how rugged the malkoff modules are  Anyone can make a tick alu tube.


----------



## chanjyj

Size comparison, the old and new.


----------



## tobrien

chanjyj said:


> Size comparison, the old and new.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/NNym4E7.jpg[/IG][/QUOTE]
> nice pic!


----------



## Grizzman

While the High Output head is definitely larger than the standard ones, I am able to comfortably clip it into the front pocket of my cargo shorts. It's unlikely that I could tell the difference between it and the standard head, without a direct comparison with one in each pocket.

I haven't tried this with my Levis jeans, but don't expect it to be adequately comfortable.


----------



## precisionworks

The contrast between the ZFL-M60 & the Bravo head model is interesting - longer head, same body.

By comparison the SF 6P & the Fury P2X are almost identical in length with the 6P just a bit shorter.







I'd like to see a side by side photo with the Bravo & the Fury.

The grip ergonomics on the Bravo look to be better than the P2X - quite a few users have commented that the P2X is "hard to grip" or slippery. I don't expect to hear that about the Bravo.

Head size & length appear similar.


----------



## 880arm

precisionworks said:


> I'd like to see a side by side photo with the Bravo & the Fury.
> 
> The grip ergonomics on the Bravo look to be better than the P2X - quite a few users have commented that the P2X is "hard to grip" or slippery. I don't expect to hear that about the Bravo.
> 
> Head size & length appear similar.



Here ya go . . . With an MD2 thrown in for good measure!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

So I charged up an AW 3400 on my Pila IBC and let it rest 48 hours. 

I turned on my Oveready bored for 18650 Elzetta with the new high output head. 

I have no light meter this test was clearly by eye. 

It ran at full brightness for 1 hour 40 minutes, then it had a slow taper, at 3 hours and 20 minutes it was approx 100 lumens. 

I stopped the test. The AW 3400 was at 3.14V immediately after I turned the light off. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## KeeblerElf

PoliceScannerMan said:


> So I charged up an AW 3400 on my Pila IBC and let it rest 48 hours.
> 
> I turned on my Oveready bored for 18650 Elzetta with the new high output head.
> 
> I have no light meter this test was clearly by eye.
> 
> It ran at full brightness for 1 hour 40 minutes, then it had a slow taper, at 3 hours and 20 minutes it was approx 100 lumens.
> 
> I stopped the test. The AW 3400 was at 3.14V immediately after I turned the light off.
> 
> Hope this helps.



That's very helpful, and the results are pretty pleasing! Thanks for taking the time to run the test and report the results here!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

KeeblerElf said:


> That's very helpful, and the results are pretty pleasing! Thanks for taking the time to run the test and report the results here!



No problem!

I should also note before I turned it off, I took it outside, and could still illuminate my backyard to my rear fence. Approx 150 feet. 

I am pleased!


----------



## Walll

Would you feel that the new head is too large to EDC? Great thoughts, pictures and reviews everyone!


----------



## pjandyho

I had waited a long time for the high output head just to place my order. I then lost my patience waiting and ordered the ZFL-M60 thinking that I will probably just swap out the head when it is released later. 4 or 5 days after ordering the ZFL-M60 I received the news that the high output head was just released. If you guys remember a post which I made earlier in this thread, I wrote to Elzetta eventually whining about them not informing their customers about the new release. They were kind enough to offer me a refund if I send the ZFL-M60 back.

Long story short, I decided to keep the ZFL-M60 and swap out the drop-in to an M61w, it was the earlier version with 4000k emitter, and was I very pleased with it! In fact, so pleased with the tint I managed to hold back my temptation to order the new high output head. I might succumb eventually, but right now as it is I am happy with what I have so I have decided to wait. Did I make the right choice?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Andy. I think you will love the new head with a hi low tail. It is awesome!


----------



## chanjyj

pjandyho said:


> I had waited a long time for the high output head just to place my order. I then lost my patience waiting and ordered the ZFL-M60 thinking that I will probably just swap out the head when it is released later. 4 or 5 days after ordering the ZFL-M60 I received the news that the high output head was just released. If you guys remember a post which I made earlier in this thread, I wrote to Elzetta eventually whining about them not informing their customers about the new release. They were kind enough to offer me a refund if I send the ZFL-M60 back.
> 
> Long story short, I decided to keep the ZFL-M60 and swap out the drop-in to an M61w, it was the earlier version with 4000k emitter, and was I very pleased with it! In fact, so pleased with the tint I managed to hold back my temptation to order the new high output head. I might succumb eventually, but right now as it is I am happy with what I have so I have decided to wait. Did I make the right choice?



Andy, with the money you throw at your lights (well compared to me) just spend the $100++ and get a high output head. It's a mini pocket rocket if you run x02 RCR123 in a 2 cell body. Heck, the only reason it can't out-throw my TK35 is due to sheer head size, but it's close enough to keep me happy.

The only down side is x02 RCR123 will give a calculated runtime of 15min on 900 lumens only. However you've never been bothered with output/throw unlike me, so you could always run it at the 30 lumens mode. Pretty decent, though the tint shift is not the best.


----------



## delus

*Higher Low*

I've got a Bravo with Hi-Lo switch and high output AVS emitter. I want to have the smaller, low-profile head. This means I'm switching to a Malkoff emitter.
I want a higher light output when the switch is in the low mode. High-mode lumens is not all that important. Is there a Malkoff emitter that's right for me?


----------



## KeeblerElf

*Re: Higher Low*



delus said:


> I've got a Bravo with Hi-Lo switch and high output AVS emitter. I want to have the smaller, low-profile head. This means I'm switching to a Malkoff emitter.
> I want a higher light output when the switch is in the low mode. High-mode lumens is not all that important. Is there a Malkoff emitter that's right for me?



Perhaps the Malkoff 361 LMH would be appropriate. Its lumens are 15-80-400 in the L-M-H settings, and it runs on a single rechargeable (if you want to use a 17670, or an 18650 with a bored host) or two primaries. The web page says it is designed specifically for the Elzetta head, so you shouldn't have any problems with fit. However, the Elzetta Hi-Lo switch then means you have 6 modes with this drop-in (though in practice several of these modes may be very similar in output).

If you're looking to control the light using just the Elzetta tailcap, maybe an M61 SHO would give you the higher level of L you're looking for?


----------



## Grizzman

*Re: Higher Low*

In a test I just finished, the lowest output on low came from the M61 219, followed by the M61N, with the standard M61 providing the highest lux at 1 yard.

The voltage sent to the head is more important than the chosen M61. I previously tested M61L, M61, HO, and SHO on low in a Malkoff MD2, and they all gave approximately the same output when fed the same voltage.

All you have to do is choose your favorite tint and use two RCR123s.


----------



## Craig K

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Touchdown, I like!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comparison shots, AVS head running on 1x18650 (Oveready bored Elzetta host)
> 
> M361N on high on top, Elzetta AVS bottom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neutral Malkoff WildCat on high running 2x18650, Elzetta AVS bottom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oveready Mini Turbohead Surefire M2/XML2/DD top, Elzetta AVS bottom



Nice pool.


----------



## chanjyj

delus said:


> I've got a Bravo with Hi-Lo switch and high output AVS emitter. I want to have the smaller, low-profile head. This means I'm switching to a Malkoff emitter.
> I want a higher light output when the switch is in the low mode. High-mode lumens is not all that important. Is there a Malkoff emitter that's right for me?



A regular M60 will give you 15 lumens on low (using the high-low tailcap).



KeeblerElf said:


> Perhaps the Malkoff 361 LMH would be appropriate. Its lumens are 15-80-400 in the L-M-H settings, and it runs on a single rechargeable (if you want to use a 17670, or an 18650 with a bored host) or two primaries. The web page says it is designed specifically for the Elzetta head, so you shouldn't have any problems with fit. However, the Elzetta Hi-Lo switch then means you have 6 modes with this drop-in (though in practice several of these modes may be very similar in output).
> 
> If you're looking to control the light using just the Elzetta tailcap, maybe an M61 SHO would give you the higher level of L you're looking for?



I don't believe the M31s can use rechargeable cells. Too high a voltage?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?282325-Malkoff-M31


----------



## Cerealand

The M361 LMH can take rechargables. It is Malkoff's first multi mode drop in.


----------



## KeeblerElf

chanjyj said:


> I don't believe the M31s can use rechargeable cells. Too high a voltage?
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?282325-Malkoff-M31



The M361 has an input voltage of 3.4 to 6 V, according to Malkoff's page; it's actually part of the M61 line, rather than the M31 line.


----------



## pjandyho

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Andy. I think you will love the new head with a hi low tail. It is awesome!


Awwww... My pocket and wallet hates you...


----------



## chanjyj

Cerealand said:


> The M361 LMH can take rechargables. It is Malkoff's first multi mode drop in.





KeeblerElf said:


> The M361 has an input voltage of 3.4 to 6 V, according to Malkoff's page; it's actually part of the M61 line, rather than the M31 line.



Thanks for the info, I guess I haven't been keeping up with the times.


----------



## 880arm

Review of the Elzetta High Output lights is up!

My first Elzetta and I'm very impressed, particularly with how the head is designed to manage the heat generated by the XM-L2. The heatsink arrangement is basically like a P60 mule but a little bit longer.


----------



## pjandyho

chanjyj said:


> Andy, with the money you throw at your lights (well compared to me) just spend the $100++ and get a high output head. It's a mini pocket rocket if you run x02 RCR123 in a 2 cell body. Heck, the only reason it can't out-throw my TK35 is due to sheer head size, but it's close enough to keep me happy.
> 
> The only down side is x02 RCR123 will give a calculated runtime of 15min on 900 lumens only. However you've never been bothered with output/throw unlike me, so you could always run it at the 30 lumens mode. Pretty decent, though the tint shift is not the best.


You see, I would very much want to get the new head but I am not sure after seeing how the lux would compare to the E2DL Ultra which I love very much. I have been EDCing the E2DL Ultra since I bought it a month plus back and I hope the new high output head from Elzetta would perform as good in the throw department but it is not. That is what is holding me from jumping into it now, and plus the fact the M61w I had in the ZFL-M60 is just so pleasing to the eye.


----------



## WilsonCQB1911

880arm said:


> Review of the Elzetta High Output lights is up!
> 
> My first Elzetta and I'm very impressed, particularly with how the head is designed to manage the heat generated by the XM-L2. The heatsink arrangement is basically like a P60 mule but a little bit longer.



Excellent review and pictures, thank you. My Bravo with hi/Lo ring has replaced my bored 6P with Malkoff drop-in.


----------



## chanjyj

pjandyho said:


> You see, I would very much want to get the new head but I am not sure after seeing how the lux would compare to the E2DL Ultra which I love very much. I have been EDCing the E2DL Ultra since I bought it a month plus back and I hope the new high output head from Elzetta would perform as good in the throw department but it is not. That is what is holding me from jumping into it now, and plus the fact the M61w I had in the ZFL-M60 is just so pleasing to the eye.



I guess it was an easier decision for me.

When I'm in formal attire I use the LX2 (damn Surefire cancelled the 500 lumens LX2!) due to its size. When I'm in jeans, I use the Elzetta. I carry only 1 light so it has to be pretty versatile and has to throw (to a reasonable extent). That was why my Elzetta with the M61 219 went out of rotation. It's sitting on my drawer doing... nothing.

I tend to think of the Elzetta 900 lumen head as a much cheaper and sturdier (based on the compactness of the light if dropped) SF M3LT.


----------



## matt4350

880arm, thanks for your review. I'm still a novice, but I was interested to notice your concerns, because it reflects mine too. I've long wanted an Elzetta, however I was hard pressed to justify the purchase. A tactical light seemed a luxury, considering the hundreds I've spent on duty lights, but the high output model tipped me to buy.

　
I agree the tail switch takes a little getting used to, seems to be quite a travel, I was expecting the switch to engage with shorter travel and less pressure. That said, I got used to the system after 2-3 nights of using it, no problems at all, and I think the system would be a delight to anyone who places importance on momentary activation. 
　

The price made me think twice, too, but after seeing the esteem this brand is held in, I took the plunge. I don't have anything similar to compare, but I can't say I'm disappointed with my purchase. Less than a buck a day if it lasts a year, and I'm expecting much more than that of course  Other cops are impressed by the performance of something this small, but they baulk at the price. Depends on your priorities, I s'pose... 
　

I'm running my Bravo on rechargeable cells, I've experienced no problems with this, the output seems marginally brighter than primaries. The torch illuminates a standard sort of room (3.5x3.5 metres) very close to what you'd expect from normal indoor lighting, bounced off the ceiling. Outdoors, it's replaced my duty light unless I'm specifically looking for distance.
　

Another thing I'm happy with, although a little bit unexpected, is the way colour is rendered by this light. Compared to my duty lights, the difference outdoors is quite significant. Greens are greener, browns are browner. I don't understand much about CRI and the like, but the light is nice and easy on my eyes.
　

This torch fits fine in my pocket, but I'd rather wear it on my belt, so I'm on the lookout for a holster with quick access. I'll try the elasticated Nite-ize job soon, but I'd be interested to see what others are doing that hasn't already been mentioned on this thread.

　
Cheers!


----------



## precisionworks

Excellent review. Thanks for taking the time to really get into the details.


----------



## RI Chevy

precisionworks said:


> Excellent review. Thanks for taking the time to really get into the details.



X2. Excellent comprehensive review.


----------



## 880arm

Thank you guys. I got even more long-winded than usual, especially for those who only want information on the new high-output head. Since this was my first Elzetta, it turned into a review of the head, the lights in general, and the company.

Here's a shorter version . . . the new head rocks! :twothumbs


----------



## Grizzman

I took a few lux measurements at 100 yards last night, including the High Output head on 2 and 3 cell bodies.

All batteries were freshly charged or new.

Elzetta HO Head on 2 CR123s in a 2-Cell - 1.05 lux
Elzetta HO Head on 2 17500s in a Charlie- 1.57 lux

For comparison, an E2DL Ultra gave 1.92 lux off of 2 RCR123s.


----------



## Lurveleven

I have been a huge SureFire fan, but I don't regret getting a Elzetta Model C133 (Charlie, AVS head, High/Low Tailcap) instead of a SF P3X, was planing to get both, but skips the P3X now since I like the dual mode on the Elzetta so much better. I also got myself a Model B213 (Bravo,Low Profile Bezel, High/Low Tailcap), so now I can make the configs I want.


----------



## tobrien

Lurveleven said:


> I have been a huge SureFire fan, but I don't regret getting a Elzetta Model C133 (Charlie, AVS head, High/Low Tailcap) instead of a SF P3X, was planing to get both, but skips the P3X now since I like the dual mode on the Elzetta so much better. I also got myself a Model B213 (Bravo,Low Profile Bezel, High/Low Tailcap), so now I can make the configs I want.



you know, I never thought about getting the Charlie over the P3X (and skipping the P3X entirely)! that's good thinking and I'll have to do that. thanks for saving us money (for now )!


----------



## Grizzman

I've been using my Charlie with High Output AVS head as my go outdoors and check on stuff light for the last few weeks. The more I use it, the more I like it. I like it so much, I just ordered a Bravo version, and may even weapon mount it in the ZROC I bought with the light.

It was quite foggy a couple nights ago, so I spent some quality time outside with my E2DL Ultra, Hound Dog, and Charlie. 

Grizz


----------



## pjandyho

Grizzman said:


> I've been using my Charlie with High Output AVS head as my go outdoors and check on stuff light for the last few weeks. The more I use it, the more I like it. I like it so much, I just ordered a Bravo version, and may even weapon mount it in the ZROC I bought with the light.
> 
> It was quite foggy a couple nights ago, so I spent some quality time outside with my *E2DL Ultra, Hound Dog, and Charlie*.
> 
> Grizz


Which of these lights does best in the fog? It's hard to tell from the beam shots posted here but is the beam of the high output head more floody?


----------



## Grizzman

The Elzetta has the narrowest beam pattern, with a smooth spill transition from inner boundary (bright) to outer area (not really a boundary or edge). The Hound Dog, having a reflector, delivers a definite dual cones of light. The E2DL Ultra's spill is such wider than both, with significantly less output.

In heavy fog, the Hound Dog's spill is bright enough to distract my eyes away from the object to be seen, if it is more than 25 yards away. It does light up a larger area in an impressive manner. The Elzetta definitely seems the most for distant objects in a foggy environment. The Ultra's spill brightness level, while very wide, isn't quite as useful as that of the others.

Grizz


----------



## pjandyho

Grizzman said:


> The Elzetta has the narrowest beam pattern, with a smooth spill transition from inner boundary (bright) to outer area (not really a boundary or edge). The Hound Dog, having a reflector, delivers a definite dual cones of light. The E2DL Ultra's spill is such wider than both, with significantly less output.
> 
> In heavy fog, the Hound Dog's spill is bright enough to distract my eyes away from the object to be seen, if it is more than 25 yards away. It does light up a larger area in an impressive manner. The Elzetta definitely seems the most for distant objects in a foggy environment. The Ultra's spill brightness level, while very wide, isn't quite as useful as that of the others.
> 
> Grizz


That's good news! I have both the Hound Dog and the E2DL Ultra and I had experienced how the spill of the Hound Dog could be an issue under misty and foggy conditions. Have not tried it out with the E2DL Ultra though but from your description it does sound like the AVS head does make a better outdoors light.


----------



## Grizzman

Under clear conditions, the Hound Dog is fully awesome and has been my favorite large format light for distance viewing, while having a fully usable low for close range use. I need to compare it and the Elzetta more to see if that's still true.


----------



## pjandyho

Thank you Grizzman! Your input helps a lot.


----------



## tonkem

Who can comment on real world versus the Fury and the Bravo model? I am impressed by the fact that there is no(or very little) drop in output on the bravo or charlie according to 880arn's excellent review. I can see from his beam shots versus the fury that there would be little difference(at least from the pics) from the fury and the bravo...

Please comment on those folks that have both the fury and the bravo or charlie. This would also be my first Elzetta, although I have been aware of them for some time.


----------



## 880arm

tonkem said:


> Am I to understand that the new high output head is the same, regardless of body choice, it will just auto adjust to the body that you attached to it? Hence the AVS (auto voltage sensing) moniker?
> 
> Also, who can comment on real world versus the Fury and the Bravo model? I am impressed by the fact that there is no(or very little) drop in output on the bravo or charlie according to 880arn's excellent review. I can see from his beam shots versus the fury that there would be little difference(at least from the pics) from the fury and the bravo...
> 
> Please comment on those folks that have both the fury and the bravo or charlie. This would also be my first Elzetta, although I have been aware of them for some time.
> 
> Also, someone mentioned a 18650 body, I assume that would be a separate purchase as the 18650 would not fit in the stock body, correct?



You understand correctly, there is just one high output head and it can be used on either the Bravo or Charlie bodies.

Aside from when I was writing the review, my Elzetta has remained in the Charlie configuration so aside from the beamshots in the review I don't have many comparisons between it and the 2 cell Fury. The beam patterns of the two are so different from one another it's hard to compare their relative outputs by eye but they seem pretty close, as expected by their ratings. How this output is maintained over time is shown in the runtime charts.

How and where the lights are used will have an effect on the perceived brightness as well. The Fury has a brighter hot spot and correspondingly longer reach. The spill of the Fury is also fairly bright but has an abrubt cut-off at the edges of the beam. On the other hand, the Elzetta still has a fairly broad and bright hot spot that is surrounded by a huge corona that is only slightly less intense. From there, the output tapers off into the spill beam which is ultimately much broader than the Fury's. Basically the Fury puts more light on point and into its comparatively smaller area of spill but the Elzetta puts more down range (in the hotspot and corona) with the remainder spread out over a larger area of spill.

After typing all that I'm still not sure it makes sense 

Right now I'm working on a head to head comparison between the P3X Fury and the Elzetta in the Charlie configuration. If that goes well I will try to do a more detailed comparison between the two-celled versions as well.


----------



## tonkem

880arm said:


> You understand correctly, there is just one high output head and it can be used on either the Bravo or Charlie bodies.
> 
> Aside from when I was writing the review, my Elzetta has remained in the Charlie configuration so aside from the beamshots in the review I don't have many comparisons between it and the 2 cell Fury. The beam patterns of the two are so different from one another it's hard to compare their relative outputs by eye but they seem pretty close, as expected by their ratings. How this output is maintained over time is shown in the runtime charts.
> 
> How and where the lights are used will have an effect on the perceived brightness as well. The Fury has a brighter hot spot and correspondingly longer reach. The spill of the Fury is also fairly bright but has an abrubt cut-off at the edges of the beam. On the other hand, the Elzetta still has a fairly broad and bright hot spot that is surrounded by a huge corona that is only slightly less intense. From there, the output tapers off into the spill beam which is ultimately much broader than the Fury's. Basically the Fury puts more light on point and into its comparatively smaller area of spill but the Elzetta puts more down range (in the hotspot and corona) with the remainder spread out over a larger area of spill.
> 
> After typing all that I'm still not sure it makes sense
> 
> Right now I'm working on a head to head comparison between the P3X Fury and the Elzetta in the Charlie configuration. If that goes well I will try to do a more detailed comparison between the two-celled versions as well.



Thanks 880arm, of the fury and the 2 cell or 3 cell Elzetta, which is your favorite and why? You are always so thorough


----------



## 880arm

tonkem said:


> Thanks 880arm, of the fury and the 2 cell or 3 cell Elzetta, which is your favorite and why? You are always so thorough



That's a tough question that I have been thinking about all weekend as each has its strengths and I'm glad I have each of them. In fact, I have been debating whether or not I should even pick a "winner" when I do my comparison(s) of the lights or if I should just lay out the facts and let the reader decide.

All that aside, I will say that I generally prefer the beam of the Elzettas as the tint and profile is more pleasing to my eye. However, there are cases where the brighter spill of the Fury is an advantage so I'm glad I have a couple of them around as well.

Also the Elzettas have a big advantage in their modular design, something SureFire moved away from with the design of the Fury and PX series lights.

The 2 cell Fury has the more attractive price tag while the P3X is pretty similar to the Elzettas.

The smooth design of the Fury makes it more friendly for carry and concealment while the Elzetta body provides the ultimate in grip.

There are other considerations with regard to output and runtime but those are already pretty well covered in the various runtime tests that have been posted.

So, which one am I carrying today? It's the Elzetta Charlie with the high output head :thumbsup:


----------



## tonkem

880arm, did you just buy the Head in Charlie config and an extra bravo body, and swap the head and tailcap? Seems that would be the cheapest if you are just buying one light? 
Also. Can you explain the operation of the low/high tail cap? Same as an lx2 or eb1 twisty? Or is it a clicky for momentary and twist for constant on?

Thanks.


----------



## Grizzman

The Elzetta High/Low tailcap is very similar to Malkoff's implementation of High/Low (in the head). 

When the tailcap is fully tight, a ring contacts the body directly, and full output is provided. When the tailcap is slightly loosened, a pin protruding from the ring contacts the body, and low output is provided. Momentary is a partial press, and constant output is from a clicky (standard forward clicky operation).

Elzetta also offers other options for tailcaps, like high strobe, twisty with momentary (I think, can't get to their site on work's network), and single mode forward clicky.

Grizz


----------



## 880arm

tonkem said:


> 880arm, did you just buy the Head in Charlie config and an extra bravo body, and swap the head and tailcap? Seems that would be the cheapest if you are just buying one light?
> Also. Can you explain the operation of the low/high tail cap? Same as an lx2 or eb1 twisty? Or is it a clicky for momentary and twist for constant on?
> 
> Thanks.



Yes, bought the Charlie with the High Output head and the high/low tail cap. Along with it, I bought a spare Bravo body so I could swap parts around and evaluate both the Bravo and Charlie formats.

The switch is just like Grizzman described. Tight for high, twist for low output. Press for momentary or click for constant-on in either mode.

Elzetta has a total of 6 switch options available. There is the standard press for momentary-twist for constant-on (like the SureFire Z41), a forward clicky (like the Z59), the high/low switch, and a high/strobe switch that functions similarly to the high/low. They also have two weapon light switches that are the same except for different length cables.


----------



## precisionworks

880arm said:


> ... So, which one am I carrying today? It's the Elzetta Charlie with the high output head.



I'll buy one as soon as Ronac or Fivemega makes a body that accepts 2x18650 - running 18500's has no appeal for me & all the Li-Ion's in my collection are 18650. There's so simple or easy way to extend an Elzetta body (whether 2-cell or 3-cell) & a custom made body seems like the only good solution to get 4-cell length necessary for 2x18650.


----------



## tonkem

880arm, can you post a pic of the Bravo, charlie, fury p2x and fury p3x together, for size comparison  thanks again.


----------



## 880arm

tonkem said:


> 880arm, can you post a pic of the Bravo, charlie, fury p2x and fury p3x together, for size comparison  thanks again.



Aside from the Elzetta having a larger diameter head (about 2mm bigger), the three cell versions are almost identical. The 2 cell versions are within a quarter inch of each other with the Elzetta Bravo being slightly longer than the P2X Fury.

Right now this is the only pic I have. Maybe by this weekend I will have some more . . .






​


----------



## 46Alpha

880arm said:


> Aside from the Elzetta having a larger diameter head (about 2mm bigger), the three cell versions are almost identical. The 2 cell versions are within a quarter inch of each other with the Elzetta Bravo being slightly longer than the P2X Fury.
> 
> Right now this is the only pic I have. Maybe by this weekend I will have some more . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



Outstanding! Looking forward to this one.


----------



## Litbobber

46Alpha said:


> Outstanding! Looking forward to this one.



Hell yes!!


----------



## Sgt. LED

Would one of the new Elzetta super heads fit on a Malkoff body???
I know it won't do on a Surefire body.
Since I've not seen any lego pics yet or seen someone talk about trying it, I will venture to guess NO....


----------



## 880arm

Sgt. LED said:


> Would one of the new Elzetta super heads fit on a Malkoff body???
> I know it won't do on a Surefire body.
> Since I've not seen any lego pics yet or seen someone talk about trying it, I will venture to guess NO....



It would be awesome if it did fit but it's nowhere close. The Elzetta design is similar to SureFire's in that the body has a pocket that the drop-in, or in this case the base of the LED heatsink sits down into. Of course, the Malkoff design houses the drop-in completely within the bezel and lacks this pocket.

If the base of the LED heatsink would fit inside the throat of the Malkoff body, the threads would probably match, but it's too large.


----------



## Sgt. LED

Ah well!
Thank's for breaking the news haha

Maybe I can grab one after the holidays. Its a bad time to be spending $$$ on myself


----------



## RI Chevy

I just picked up a new "old school" 3 cell with the M60 drop in and H/L tailcap. I was unaware that the switch is silent. As far as size goes, it is the smallest 3 cell CR123 host that I know of. It is a little larger than a Surefire 6P and a little smaller than a 9P. It is also smaller than my 3 Malkoff MD3. Very nice though.


----------



## btorrenga

I am trying to figure out rechargeable options for the bravo and Charlie. I understand the need to bore the tube, but does anyone know if there is buck and/or boost compensation in the bravo and Charlie? Do we know the voltage tolerances and current demands of the new high output head?


----------



## RI Chevy

The Elzetta was designed around the CR123 battery and the military standards for use as a rifle light. With the new Charlie head, you will only reach max output by using the 3 CR123 cells (9V). As I understand it. 

If you get an older host, with the head/bezel that accepts the M60 drop in, you can use different drop ins, such as the M91A type or the M61 and get different outputs that way. If you bore it out to accept 18mm batteries, you could use 2-18500 cells and get 8.4V output. I plan on getting my host bored to 18mm. I personally like the 18500 Sanyo unprotected cells. I use them in my bored Surefire 9P.

There is a great review here! Fellow Member 880arm conducted it. http://flashlightguide.com/2013/10/review-elzetta-high-output-flashlights/


----------



## btorrenga

So no regulation at all, only direct drive?


----------



## RI Chevy

btorrenga said:


> So no regulation at all, only direct drive?



I am not sure on the specifics of the electronics, but I am sure that there is some sort of regulation with the output of the head unit. It is referenced in the above review in the runtimes. 

_"In the 3-cell Charlie configuration, the high output head remained in regulation for 55 minutes, maintaining at least 86% of its initial output. Over the next 15 minutes output declined to approximately the same output level as the 2-cell configuration before the light dropped completely out of regulation. This was followed by a long taper in output as the batteries were depleted. In this one test, the High Output head fell a few minutes short of its rated runtime of 105 minutes.
_
_Not surprisingly, temperatures were much higher in the three cell configuration with a maximum head temperature of 139.5 degrees Fahrenheit and body temperature of 132 degrees recorded after 55 minutes of runtime._
_When compared directly to each other, the 3-cell Charlie configuration starts out at over 150% of the output of the 2-cell Bravo. In both configurations the long tapering output after dropping out of regulation gives the user ample warning of the need to change batteries or switch to a backup light."_


----------



## Swedpat

Thanks 880arm for the review and comparison between Bravo and Charlie!

It would be interesting to see a runtime graph of Charlie runned by 2x18500! Oveready offer bored Elzetta 2-cell bodies, maybe they will offer bored 3-cell bodies as well...


----------



## RI Chevy

Run times should be the same with a bored 9P and 2x18500's.


----------



## Swedpat

RI Chevy said:


> Run times should be the same with a bored 9P and 2x18500's.



Also the question is if the brightness at 7,4V will be the same as at 6V or 9V, or between. If it's closer to the brightness at 6V it should gain in runtime compared to running on 3xCR123.


----------



## RI Chevy

I really like the output of my Malkoff's using 2x18500's over the use of CR123's. The modules are a little brighter than using just 2xCR123's, and just as bright as using 3xCR123's. 
I still have a few 9P's that run the CR123's in my BOB, but for my every day users, I prefer to use 18500's.


----------



## Grizzman

If keeping the warranty is a concern, 17500 cells have a rated capacity of 1100 mAh, vs the 1600 mAh of 18500s. While the capacity difference isn't trivial, it's not large enough to make it worthwhile to me. I plan to have my older 2-cell body bored by Oveready (bore batch O won't be completed until 2014) so I can take advantage of 3400 mAh 18650s, especially when used with the standard head and an M61N.

I previously recorded lux measurements at 1 yard with the High Output head running in multiple configurations, but I don't recall how many lux it delivered from a single 17670. I do remember being somewhat disappointed. I wrote down the numbers, and can repost them if anyone's interested.

Grizz


----------



## Random Dan

I'd be interested to know how the Bravo compares with the Fury both on single Li-Ion. I'll probably be buying a Fury soon, but I like the TIR on the Elzetta so I might change my mind.


----------



## 880arm

46Alpha said:


> Outstanding! Looking forward to this one.





Litbobber said:


> Hell yes!!



Well it took about three weeks longer than I expected but I've finally finished my Elzetta Charlie vs SureFire P3X Fury comparison. The short version is that I'm picking the Elzetta mainly because I prefer (in this order) the beam profile, the modular design, and the level of sustained output.

The Elzetta doesn't throw as far as the Fury but it still puts more light where I want it, out in front of me, without creating a lot of glare from nearby objects.





When I look at the modular design of the Elzetta, it reminds me of why I first became involved with SureFire flashlights. It is extremely satisfying to know you own a quality product that is built to last and can be upgraded by replacing only the necessary component(s). For my general use, I also preferred the fairly stable output of the Charlie as it provides more of a "known quantity" of what to expect when using the light.

None of this is to say the P3X is a bad light as there are some applications where I actually prefer it over the Elzetta. However, on an overall basis, the Charlie is the winner for me :thumbsup:


----------



## Redhat703

880arm said:


> Well it took about three weeks longer than I expected but I've finally finished my Elzetta Charlie vs SureFire P3X Fury comparison. The short version is that I'm picking the Elzetta mainly because I prefer (in this order) the beam profile, the modular design, and the level of sustained output.
> 
> The Elzetta doesn't throw as far as the Fury but it still puts more light where I want it, out in front of me, without creating a lot of glare from nearby objects.
> When I look at the modular design of the Elzetta, it reminds me of why I first became involved with SureFire flashlights. It is extremely satisfying to know you own a quality product that is built to last and can be upgraded by replacing only the necessary component(s). For my general use, I also preferred the fairly stable output of the Charlie as it provides more of a "known quantity" of what to expect when using the light.
> 
> None of this is to say the P3X is a bad light as there are some applications where I actually prefer it over the Elzetta. However, on an overall basis, the Charlie is the winner for me :thumbsup:



Thanks for your great review! I think I'll go for the Charlie.
It would be nice if you would do the review of Charlie vs. neutral Hound Dog


----------



## 880arm

Redhat703 said:


> Thanks for your great review! I think I'll go for the Charlie.
> It would be nice if you would do the review of Charlie vs. neutral Hound Dog



Thank you sir. It would be even nicer if I had a neutral Hound Dog 

Based on my experience with my cool white HD, I would say much of it would be the same as the Fury with regard to beam profile. The HD beam has a tighter hotspot and even greater throw but the spill beam is fairly similar. The Malkoff does have a few advantages over the Fury, namely with regard to the High/Low bezel switch, multiple options for body length, and compatibility with 18mm Li-Ion batteries.

Funny thing about these comparisons. I originally had plans to do all sorts of these comparing not only lights from different brands but also some from the same manufacturer, such as the Hound Dog vs. the Wildcat. However, after going through this one, I think I may wait a little while before trying another one.


----------



## RI Chevy

Interesting comparison. Thank you 88arm!


----------



## tonkem

Anyone have any idea of runtime of the bravo on the low output? Thanks 

Nevermind........ I found it in 880arm's review..


----------



## tonkem

Also, I have read a comment in another thread on another site that says the beam has a ring in it, when "white wall hunting". Has anyone experienced that?


----------



## gravelrash

880arm said:


> When I look at the modular design of the Elzetta, it reminds me of why I first became involved with SureFire flashlights. It is extremely satisfying to know you own a quality product that is built to last and can be upgraded by replacing only the necessary component(s).



Well put! You just sold me on getting an Elzetta. I've been waffling about purchasing one, but you reminded me why I like older surefire lights - dropins.

I'm assuming that only Malkoff will work (and not any ol' p60)? If yes, that isn't exactly a negative...


----------



## Grizzman

The Elzetta bodies are designed to use Malkoff engines. It may be possible to use a different manufacturer's product, but will likely require modification of the head.

Grizz


----------



## tonkem

Opinion: I have a Fury, that my wife keeps in her car, and am considering purchasing the Bravo. Any opinions about the Bravo versus the Fury? I like the steady output of the bravo versus the fury. Anyone have both that can give a good opinion of which they like best.


----------



## 880arm

tonkem said:


> Opinion: I have a Fury, that my wife keeps in her car, and am considering purchasing the Bravo. Any opinions about the Bravo versus the Fury? I like the steady output of the bravo versus the fury. Anyone have both that can give a good opinion of which they like best.



In most ways the Bravo vs P2X comparison is the same as comparing the Charlie to the P3X (assuming your talking about using the Bravo with the High Output head).

Size is practically the same, aside from the bezels (1.37" for the P2X, 1.45" for the Bravo with High Output Head)
The SureFire has slightly more throw while the Elzetta has a much larger hotspot
"Cone of light" from the Fury vs. tapering output toward the spill edge with the Bravo
Not a huge difference in output but it's hard to compare them directly due to the difference in beam shapes
The Elzetta is more efficient and has better regulation, in part due to the more efficient XM-L2 emitter
The Elzetta runs a little bit cooler when operated continuously
Different UI for the two level versions (2 mode driver for the SureFire, High/Low tailcap for the Elzetta)
Relatively smooth body of the Fury as opposed to the knurled and grooved body of the Bravo
The Fury switch is easier to press. The Elzetta switch is less likely to be triggered accidentally

There are probably some more details but that's what I can remember off the top of my head. At least it's a start!


----------



## tonkem

880arm said:


> In most ways the Bravo vs P2X comparison is the same as comparing the Charlie to the P3X (assuming your talking about using the Bravo with the High Output head).
> 
> Size is practically the same, aside from the bezels (1.37" for the P2X, 1.45" for the Bravo with High Output Head)
> The SureFire has slightly more throw while the Elzetta has a much larger hotspot
> "Cone of light" from the Fury vs. tapering output toward the spill edge with the Bravo
> Not a huge difference in output but it's hard to compare them directly due to the difference in beam shapes
> The Elzetta is more efficient and has better regulation, in part due to the more efficient XM-L2 emitter
> The Elzetta runs a little bit cooler when operated continuously
> Different UI for the two level versions (2 mode driver for the SureFire, High/Low tailcap for the Elzetta)
> Relatively smooth body of the Fury as opposed to the knurled and grooved body of the Bravo
> The Fury switch is easier to press. The Elzetta switch is less likely to be triggered accidentally
> 
> There are probably some more details but that's what I can remember off the top of my head. At least it's a start!



Right, I read thru your very thorough review. Which do you like the best, in typical use? I know you like the Charlie over the P3X, but does the same ring true with the P2X and Bravo? It makes sense to me, since I already have the Fury to get the Bravo, but I do have 2 E1L's and an E2L-AA so I have purchased similar lights in the past. This light, fury or bravo, would be relegated to glove box for use when needed, which is why I am wanting another 123 light for their ability to stand the elements better than AA, 18650, etc. 

Thanks.


----------



## btorrenga

Do we know if it is safe to use lifepo4 batteries in the bravo and Charlie configurations?


----------



## 880arm

tonkem said:


> Right, I read thru your very thorough review. Which do you like the best, in typical use? I know you like the Charlie over the P3X, but does the same ring true with the P2X and Bravo? It makes sense to me, since I already have the Fury to get the Bravo, but I do have 2 E1L's and an E2L-AA so I have purchased similar lights in the past. This light, fury or bravo, would be relegated to glove box for use when needed, which is why I am wanting another 123 light for their ability to stand the elements better than AA, 18650, etc.
> 
> Thanks.



If it's for glove box duty, my first impression is to save around $80-$90 and go with the P2X-B Fury. Of course either light would work fine but when I envision peering under the car, checking the engine compartment, changing a tire, or other roadside type uses I would generally prefer the beam profile of the Fury and the extra cash in my pocket. However, at those close distances the beam pattern doesn't make a huge difference and the cash will just get spent on something else anyway . If you have a more specific use in mind, it could be a different story.

From an overall performance standpoint I have to say the Bravo with high output head pretty well kills the P2X Fury with its higher output and better regulation. After that, much of the decision comes down to the beam pattern, as the Fury has a slight advantage in throw and is probably the better choice if you want to evenly illuminate everything in the spill beam out to about 30-50 yards.



btorrenga said:


> Do we know if it is safe to use lifepo4 batteries in the bravo and Charlie configurations?



If you mean safe for the light then yes. When used in series the voltage of either two or three LiFePO4 batteries is within the operating range of the high output head.

If you mean safe for the battery, we all know the LiFePO4 batteries are a "safer" chemistry and their use shouldn't present any immediate risks. However, the current draw of any high powered lights will have an effect on the lifespan of the batteries.

If you mean safe for the user, then it depends. When I inquired about the use of LiFePO4 rechargeables, I received the following reply, "However, using rechargeable batteries will significantly reduce performance and reliability and is not recommended. Many rechargeable cells will not physically fit into Elzetta Modular Flashlight Bodies by design. Only USA-Made CR123A meet our quality standards."

I did not ask for further clarification but I suspect the statement is based, at least in part, on the following rationale:

RCR123 sized Rechargeable batteries provide a significantly shorter runtime
USA-Made CR123A are pretty well established as a "known" quantity and are consistent between brands
CR123A batteries won't suddenly leave the user "in the dark" as they provide a long tapering output as they are depleted which allows the user ample warning to disengage, change batteries, or switch to a backup light.
Keep in mind that the Elzetta is a tactical light, period. As such, its design and any recommendations will be based upon that very specific type of usage.

That's my "safe" answer


----------



## tobrien

^good answer and especially your analysis of their response


----------



## precisionworks

btorrenga said:


> Do we know if it is safe to use lifepo4 batteries in the bravo and Charlie configurations?


+1 to 880arm's response. Here's a brief writeup I did on LithiumPhosphate cells. The comments are based on my observations, statements from Surefire, and technical research docs. YMMV.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rechargeable cells for flashlights are generally either lithium-phosphate or lithium-ion (16650/18650/etc).

SureFire offers the rechargeable LFP123A as an alternative to the non rechargeable CR123a. LFP means the chemistry is Lithium Iron Phosphate but they're usually called just Lithium phosphate. Non-SureFire cells may be marked LiFePO4 or RCR123A.

Average discharge voltage is 3.2v and that’s how SureFire labels their cells, making them a direct replacement for CR123a in LED lights only. SureFire says “Rechargeable LFP123A batteries are only to be used to power LED illumination products (built to use 123A lithium batteries) and NOT those featuring incandescent lamps. The initial elevated voltage of these rechargeable batteries, immediately after charging, may cause the filament contained within an incandescent lamp to break or burn out." Fresh off the charger these cells run 4.2v each or 8.4v per pair & using them in a 6P incandescent light will produce a very bright light for just an instant. Most (but not all) LED lights accept the higher voltage without issue.


LFP cells offer superior thermal and chemical stability which provides better safety characteristics than Lithium-ion. Lithium phosphate cells are incombustible in the event of mishandling during charge or discharge, they are more stable under overcharge or short circuit conditions and can withstand high temperatures without decomposing. Phosphate chemistry also offers a longer cycle life (total number of charges before performance suffers). The tradeoff with LFP cells is reduced energy density compared both to primary cells & other rechargeables. For the SF LFP123A in a 2-cell light:

*LFP123A = 6.4v x 600 mAh = 3.8 Wh

CR123 = 6v x 1500 mAh = 9 Wh *


*Since a pair of CR123’s produces 9 Wh versus 3.8 Wh for the LFP's the LFP’s give about half the runtime.*


The main reason for running LFP's is low operating cost. Purchase two SF2R-KIT01 for $40 & two SF2R-CB for $24 and you've got the first year covered. A year later discard the batteries & buy four more SF2R-CB for $48. It's the easiest way to run rechargeables in your SureFire light & requires no modifications so the SF warranty stays intact.


The only downside of LFP's is more frequent battery changes.

Copyright 2013 | All Rights Reserved | Precision Gunsmithing & Precision Works Machine


----------



## tonkem

Ok. Since I have a fury already(my wife's glove box light). I ordered the Bravo. Will post thoughts when received.  Thanks again 880arm for the excellent comparison reviews. They really helped make my decision.


----------



## btorrenga

Crap. I ordered a Charlie, but it did not come with a lanyard ring. Lanyard rings are sold separately on their site, in a kind of hard to find spot: http://www.elzetta.com/Webpages/order_online.htm

Don't forget to put that in your shopping cart before ordering.

The $3.95 part takes $6.95 worth of shipping if you order it by itself. I guess I am going without a lanyard.


----------



## Random Dan

btorrenga said:


> Crap. I ordered a Charlie, but it did not come with a lanyard ring. Lanyard rings are sold separately on their site, in a kind of hard to find spot: http://www.elzetta.com/Webpages/order_online.htm
> 
> Don't forget to put that in your shopping cart before ordering.
> 
> The $3.95 part takes $6.95 worth of shopping if you order it by itself. I guess I am going without a lanyard.


I believe any lanyard that fits a SF 6P or similar will fit the Elzetta. Shouldn't be hard to find one at a reasonable price.


----------



## 880arm

btorrenga said:


> . . .The $3.95 part takes $6.95 worth of shopping if you order it by itself. I guess I am going without a lanyard.



I would suggest sending them an e-mail describing your dilemma.


----------



## btorrenga

880arm said:


> I would suggest sending them an e-mail describing your dilemma.



Yes, it is worth a try. It was definitely my mistake though, can't blame them for my oversight. On another note, the flashlight itself is real nice.

I have a question for other owners. Has anyone with the AVS head and high-low tailcap found that the amount to unscrew the tailcap from the high setting to the low setting is very slight?


----------



## 880arm

btorrenga said:


> Yes, it is worth a try. It was definitely my mistake though, can't blame them for my oversight. On another note, the flashlight itself is real nice.
> 
> I have a question for other owners. Has anyone with the AVS head and high-low tailcap found that the amount to unscrew the tailcap from the high setting to the low setting is very slight?



Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you had just ordered the Charlie and it had not shipped yet  Still, you may try the e-mail as they wouldn't need a whole box just to ship the lanyard. Maybe you can work a deal for them to just put it in an envelope and mail it to you.

The High/Low tailcap provides full output only when the tailcap is fully tightened. Anything less than that, even slightly loosened, will provide the lower output.


----------



## btorrenga

880arm said:


> The High/Low tailcap provides full output only when the tailcap is fully tightened. Anything less than that, even slightly loosened, will provide the lower output.



So that's by design, ok. I thought I read that about an eighth of a turn loosening the tailcap would transition to low. But like you say, only a slight beginning of rotation is all it takes.


----------



## RI Chevy

Elzetta should be able to send the lanyard ring in a regular envelope with a simple stamp. 

The Elzetta tail caps only appear to be threaded on by a few turns to the host. I'd personally like to see a few more threaded turns for their tail cap for a more secure fit. 
The Hi/Low system appears to be the opposite of the Malkoff. The Malkoff has the resistor in the head/bezel, whereas the Elzetta has the resistor in the tail cap.


----------



## precisionworks

RI Chevy said:


> ... The Malkoff has the resistor in the head/bezel, whereas the Elzetta has the resistor in the tail cap.


I don't believe any current manufacturer is using resistors for mode switching. Resistors were popular ten years ago when most lights were single mode only & the resistor allowed adding a low mode. Mode switching today is a function of driver board firmware & unscrewing the tail (or rapidly clicking the switch in some lights) causes output levels to cycle.


----------



## RI Chevy

RI Chevy said:


> Elzetta should be able to send the lanyard ring in a regular envelope with a simple stamp.
> 
> The Elzetta tail caps only appear to be threaded on by a few turns to the host. I'd personally like to see a few more threaded turns for their tail cap for a more secure fit.
> The Hi/Low system appears to be the opposite of the Malkoff. The Malkoff has the resistor in the head/bezel, whereas the Elzetta has the resistor in the tail cap.





precisionworks said:


> I don't believe any current manufacturer is using resistors for mode switching. Resistors were popular ten years ago when most lights were single mode only & the resistor allowed adding a low mode. Mode switching today is a function of driver board firmware & unscrewing the tail (or rapidly clicking the switch in some lights) causes output levels to cycle.



I may have used the incorrect terms for the little Hi/Low switch as a resistor.


----------



## btorrenga

RI Chevy said:


> I'd personally like to see a few more threaded turns for their tail cap for a more secure fit.



Right, if the design is solid, reliable, and they really intend for the tailcap to only need such a slight turn from high to low, then I think the way it functions is great. But, if the slight turn means failure is going to occur as parts wear out over time, then I would rather see more turns of the tailcap required. My prediction is that turning the tailcap onto high mode will become unreliable (e.g., flickering between high and low modes) after some time in service.


----------



## precisionworks

btorrenga said:


> My prediction is that turning the tailcap onto high mode will become unreliable (e.g., flickering between high and low modes) after some time in service.



The mechanical design of the end of the body uses a small contact area at the end of a sharp taper - contact force is very high since the area is so small:







Thread wear should cause no decrease in reliable contact operation.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

precisionworks said:


> I don't believe any current manufacturer is using resistors for mode switching.



Malkoff uses a resistor in his hi/low ring. Turn it over and you can see it.

Bill


----------



## RI Chevy

I thought so. But I am no electronic person.


----------



## btorrenga

precisionworks said:


> The mechanical design of the end of the body uses a small contact area at the end of a sharp taper - contact force is very high since the area is so small:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thread wear should cause no decrease in reliable contact operation.



That is really interesting. Thank you for the info.


----------



## mamelo

Has anybody ever tried a (lengthy*) 16650 KeepPower 2000mAh in a Elzetta ZFL-M60 host, e.g. with a M61 dropin? Does it fit? It should give more runtime compared to a 17670 which is said to fit, if I recall an older post correctly.

*)68.50mm (L) x 16.70 mm (D)

thanks
mamelo


----------



## tonkem

tonkem said:


> Ok. Since I have a fury already(my wife's glove box light). I ordered the Bravo. Will post thoughts when received.  Thanks again 880arm for the excellent comparison reviews. They really helped make my decision.



Received the Bravo yesterday. Compared the Surefire Fury, the beam is more narrow but throw is very similar (at least to my eyes). The big difference between the two is the tint. The Elzetta has a warmer tint, versus the more cool white tint of the Fury. 

I took both outside and shined them around at different distances, etc and it is a hard call for me. I prefer the beam of the Fury to the Bravo, but I like the capability of the Elzetta to add a 3 cell body, add different optics (when Elzetta releases them) and overall build quality and the knurling versus the smooth Fury.

Pros: 
1. Regulation 
2. Modular, allowing changes in both body and head/tailcap with other parts from Elzetta.
3. Build quality, even over the Fury

Cons
1. Switch is much different than the clickies on the Surefires. I liken it to be more like a Zebralight type electronic switch(which I am guessing it is an electronic switch.) I will have to get used to the switch, but not bad. 
2. tint (as I am not the biggest fan of warmer tints, but this may not be a negative for others)


Overall I like the light, and since it is relegated to glove box duty, I will likely keep it. I really like the idea that I can change parts later as the company comes out with more efficient heads, optics, etc.


----------



## 880arm

Saw this posted today. Refers to the current draw of the Elzetta vs. a familiar looking light from another manufacturer. I haven't taken any current readings myself so I can't attest to what is shown from first-hand experience but it's got me thinking about sacrificing 6 more CR123's to see what I can come up with.



I've looked around a little bit and found a few spec sheets for CR123's but I didn't see anything conclusive about the maximum allowable current draw. Or at least nothing that I could readily understand. Anyone have any helpful tips of where to look?


----------



## twl

It is a known parameter for lithium primary battery chemistry that the maximum continuous current draw should be no more than "1C", which is one times the capacity of the battery in milliamp/hours.
So, if the CR123 battery is rated for 1500 mah(1.5ah) which is typical, then the maximum discharge rate should be no more than 1C, or no more than 1.5a.
This is a chemistry issue, so all lithium primary batteries fall under this guideline.


----------



## Redhat703

Thanks for the good video. It's interesting to know that the SF P3X draws too much currents.


----------



## 880arm

twl said:


> It is a known parameter for lithium primary battery chemistry that the maximum continuous current draw should be no more than "1C", which is one times the capacity of the battery in milliamp/hours.
> So, if the CR123 battery is rated for 1500 mah(1.5ah) which is typical, then the maximum discharge rate should be no more than 1C, or no more than 1.5a.
> This is a chemistry issue, so all lithium primary batteries fall under this guideline.



I agree about the 1C limitation. I was curious about the 3.5A "surge" that was mentioned in the video. I was unable to find anything that confirmed this or the duration which it would be acceptable. :thinking:


----------



## precisionworks

For many years a number of high output P60 drop ins have pulled 3500 mA+ & I've heard zero reports about battery issues. Certainly someone would be injured if this were a genuine problem. At the very least there'd be documentation about hair loss or elevated cholesterol ... yet none exists AFAIK. 

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk


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## tonkem

I tested my Elzetta Bravo and it was pulling 1.1 amps versus my P2X Fury that was pulling 1.58 amps. I also tested my new surefire E1L with the KE1 head and was pulling 250 ma.

Interesting information...


----------



## 880arm

precisionworks said:


> . . . At the very least there'd be documentation about hair loss or elevated cholesterol . . .



Uh oh :sweat:

And all this time I thought my hair loss was hereditary.


----------



## pjandyho

Thanks for sharing the video 880arms! I am still awaiting for the arrival of the Bravo with AVS head which is still currently in transit to me. Been very happy with my ZFL-M60 which I had just gotten a few days before the launch of the AVS head and I am so excited about the new high output light. It was your review that helped push me across the fence for a second Elzetta and I think I am going to be very happy with it. It is so nice to know the amount of safety put into the manufacture of the light and this video helps to bring me confidence with this light.


----------



## precisionworks

tonkem said:


> ... my P2X Fury that was pulling 1.58 amps ...


The Fury reads anywhere from 1600-1900 mAh depending on whether you have the earlier 500L model or the later 600L model. There would certainly be a recall if these amp readings were a problem. The P3X (after initial blast) runs a lower amp draw based on battery temperature.


----------



## 880arm

1xCR123a Elzetta Alpha prototypes to be introduced at SHOT Show with production planned to begin in the summer! Shown with a new clip that will be compatible with the Bravo and Charlie lights as well :twothumbs


----------



## tonkem

I was hoping that would happen, as I prefer the 1 cell lights. 



880arm said:


> Elzetta Alpha prototypes to be introduced at SHOT Show with production planned to begin in the summer! Featuring a new clip that will be compatible with the Bravo and Charlie lights as well :twothumbs


----------



## kyhunter1

A single cell elzetta with a clip and TIR optic is very interesting. Elzetta firearm products are awesome. I plan buy a flashlight from them in the near future.


----------



## 880arm

tonkem said:


> I was hoping that would happen, as I prefer the 1 cell lights.



I thought you would like that!


----------



## RI Chevy

I take it that it is a single CR123 cell based light?


----------



## 880arm

RI Chevy said:


> I take it that it is a single CR123 cell based light?



Yes it is. I guess I should have included that important detail in my earlier post. I think I lost track of that fact due to my excitement :fail:

Thanks for mentioning this. I will update the post accordingly :thumbsup:


----------



## tobrien

that clip on it looks sensibly designed


----------



## hron61

tonkem said:


> I was hoping that would happen, as I prefer the 1 cell lights.




OMG...That is nice. 

And a bezel down clip is good thinking. I wonder if it will be removable as well?


----------



## tonkem

Appears to be removable, per Elzetta on another site: 

Now that Christmas has passed, it's time to look forward to an exciting 2014. Here is a rendering of the upcoming Elzetta Alpha Single-Cell Modular Flashlight (Belt Clip will fit Elzetta Alpha, Bravo, & Charlie Modular Flashlights). Look for prototypes at SHOT Show in January with production beginning this summer!



hron61 said:


> OMG...That is nice.
> 
> And a bezel down clip is good thinking. I wonder if it will be removable as well?


----------



## pjandyho

Oh an Elzetta snubby! That is interesting. Can't wait to see it coming.


----------



## tonkem

I wonder if the new AVS head would just be added to a 1 cell body without any additional purchases? Seems unlikely, but that would be nice, since I have a Bravo with the AVS head


----------



## Grizzman

The head profile appears different than the current AVS high output head.

I haven't tried running mine off a single CR123 (Elzetta doesn't design for rechargeable operation), but I doubt output would be acceptable. 

Grizz


----------



## hron61

Just for shits and giggles i put 1xcr123 with 2 123 dummy cells in my charlie and fired it up. Surprisingly it outputs just a guess on my part not scientific by any means i would think 50 lumens then when switched to low it looks like a moon mode 1 lumen maybe. I didnt do a runtime as its past my bedtime and gotta go to work early but it was pretty doable i think and the beam was very usable. Maybe someone can do a runtime test and see. Im sure 3.0v will not harm the avs head. If it does im not responsible for your actions...just saying.


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> The head profile appears different than the current AVS high output head . . .



Agreed. Looks like a completely different head which is probably a good thing if they are planning on making a lower voltage/output head so it would be harder to get it mixed up with the current High Output head. It would also be pretty neat if the new head would operate up to 6 volts providing a longer runtime option for the Bravo body.

A redesigned M30/M30F type of module would be good to see as well for use with their P60 style bezels.


----------



## pjandyho

880arm said:


> Agreed. Looks like a completely different head which is probably a good thing if they are planning on making a lower voltage/output head so it would be harder to get it mixed up with the current High Output head. It would also be pretty neat if the new head would operate up to 6 volts providing a longer runtime option for the Bravo body.
> 
> A redesigned M30/M30F type of module would be good to see as well for use with their P60 style bezels.


I think this is a great idea. Hopefully it is so.


----------



## blackadder911

Elzetta always make my head turns on it..
but cannot find any detail about their 18650 capability.. and mooder seems wont to mod eltezza body..
I think 18650 Elzetta is hard to resist..


----------



## TMedina

Ooh, an Elzetta Alpha snubby and a low-profile bezel? Nice.


----------



## RI Chevy

No problem 880arm.  

This is so cool! I would like to see the business end of it though. :thumbsup:


----------



## 880arm

blackadder911 said:


> Elzetta always make my head turns on it..
> but cannot find any detail about their 18650 capability.. and mooder seems wont to mod eltezza body..
> I think 18650 Elzetta is hard to resist..



An 18650 won't fit a stock Elzetta as they are designed only for use with CR123a lithium primary batteries.

There are CPF members who offer services to enlarge to bore to accept the 18650's (OVEREADY and PrecisionWorks)


----------



## 880arm

SHOT Show video from Elzetta. The flood optic for the AVS head should be out next month and the new Alpha makes an appearance at around the 4 minute mark. The head is much smaller than the AVS head on the Bravo and Charlie. Output is expected to be around 300 lumens. :thumbsup:


----------



## tonkem

880arm said:


> SHOT Show video from Elzetta. The flood optic for the AVS head should be out next month and the new Alpha makes an appearance at around the 4 minute mark. The head is much smaller than the AVS head on the Bravo and Charlie. Output is expected to be around 300 lumens. :thumbsup:



Nice find, thank 880arm.


----------



## Grizzman

Wow, the Alpha appears even smaller than I was expecting.

Nice!!


----------



## pjandyho

I hope a pocket clip will be available for the Alpha model. It looks good but I don't want it to be sloshing around in my pocket.


----------



## Grizzman

pjandyho said:


> I hope a pocket clip will be available for the Alpha model. It looks good but I don't want it to be sloshing around in my pocket.



Check out post 665 above.


----------



## pjandyho

Grizzman said:


> Check out post 665 above.


Thank you! Now I am certain I want an Alpha, and with a clip. I hope I have the $$ for one when it arrives.


----------



## Xacto

Nice video, but no word regarding the head of the Alpha model except that it has a solid lens.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## tonkem

Grizzman said:


> Wow, the Alpha appears even smaller than I was expecting.
> 
> Nice!!



Me too, looking forward to this one...


----------



## Grizzman

Xacto said:


> Nice video, but no word regarding the head of the Alpha model except that it has a solid lens.
> 
> Cheers
> Thorsten



I took the statement regarding the Alpha's head to mean it is designed similarly to the High Output AVS head.....not like the older heads that use Malkoff drop-ins.

This is likely the reason it is able to be (or at least appear to be) smaller than the old head. The only dimensions that need to be compatible with the older bodies is the rear of the LED assembly (to match the body's drop-in socket) and the threads.


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool Video. A 3 cell, a 2 cell, and a 1 cell! :thumbsup:

All with interchangeable optics.


----------



## Xacto

RI Chevy said:


> Cool Video. A 3 cell, a 2 cell, and a 1 cell! :thumbsup:
> 
> All with interchangeable optics.


Well that seems to be still not 100% clear. So far the 1-cell seems to be interchangeable only with the tailcaps and maybe a flood typ lens down the road which will only the the smaller Alpha head. Nonetheless, I am looking forward to more details.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## TMedina

Aw man, I hope not. I was looking forward to a 1-cell Alpha with a low-profile bezel and rotary tail cap.


----------



## RI Chevy

I noticed that after doing a little more research. I think just the 2 cell and 3 cell bezel heads are interchangeable with the optics. I think the 1 cell light is going to be a low voltage setup that my not be interchangeable with the others. It also looks smaller in the pics and videos.

The tailcaps I believe are interchangeable with all hosts.


----------



## 880arm

It's definitely a different optic. The AVS head measures almost 37mm in diameter and the optic is right around 32mm. Judging by the video, the new Alpha head is probably no larger than 31 or 32mm (if that much) which would be about the same as a 6P bezel. 

Looks like the tailcap is the only part that will be interchangeable with its bigger brothers.


----------



## Grizzman

Elzetta's are tactically oriented and only intended for use with primary CR123s. How will the Alpha react when fed by an RCR123? Will an AVS circuit recognize this and provide the same output as from 3.2 volts, or will AVS think the head's on a Bravo and up the output to greater than 300? Or does it not have AVS and something else entirely will occur?

Isn't future light speculation fun??

Grizz


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> Elzetta's are tactically oriented and only intended for use with primary CR123s. How will the Alpha react when fed by an RCR123? Will an AVS circuit recognize this and provide the same output as from 3.2 volts, or will AVS think the head's on a Bravo and up the output to greater than 300? Or does it not have AVS and something else entirely will occur?
> 
> Isn't future light speculation fun??
> 
> Grizz



No telling about the voltage range but you can be sure they didn't design it with rechargeables in mind. Just found this photo which is probably the best I've seen so far. Looks like the head and body are a one piece unit which helps account for the small size. I'm also beginning to rethink my 31-32mm diameter estimate . . . 







Photo source: Triple Bravo


----------



## Grizzman

That is a good photo. It sure seems like a one piece design to me. 

The bezel appears to be removable, to replace the standard optic with a flood one. They may also offer a crenelated bezel as an option.

With a body diameter of 25 mm, the head looks approximately 30 mm (when I resize the photo to make the body life size and measure with calipers).


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Grizzman said:


> when I resize the photo to make the body life size and measure with calipers.



That's why I love CPF!


----------



## 880arm

Way to go Grizz. I like your estimating method much better than mine! :thumbsup:


----------



## tonkem

That Alpha looks like a keeper. Too bad we have to play the waiting game til Summer.


----------



## Grizzman

I'm glad to help/entertain. 

I also agree that it will likely end up on my gotta have it list.

Grizz


----------



## RI Chevy

We need more photos PLEASE!


----------



## tonkem

Video with close up of the head would be nice as well  



RI Chevy said:


> We need more photos PLEASE!


----------



## KeeblerElf

An Alpha with a flood optic and high/low or rotary tailcap would be a fantastic backup light. Definitely excited to see the final details at release!


----------



## 880arm

RI Chevy said:


> We need more photos PLEASE!



Here's a couple more . . . .






Photo Source: Dustin Ellerman





Photo Source: Guns & Tactics


----------



## pjandyho

I am drooling over the Alpha model... I know some will disagree with me but I hope this comes in neutral tint just like the AVS high output lights.


----------



## 880arm

More photos . . .





Source: Vuurwapen Blog





Source: AR15.com


----------



## TMedina

Ok, so it looks like it's a two-piece unit, combining bezel and body into one piece, with a tailcap selection of your choice. 

The bezel ring unscrews to allow for P60-style drop-ins - judging by the red gasket and what looks to be an M60 unit seated behind it.


----------



## twl

Cute little bugger!


----------



## Xacto

TMedina said:


> [...]The bezel ring unscrews to allow for P60-style drop-ins - judging by the red gasket and what looks to be an M60 unit seated behind it.



Although a P60 style dropin with AVS technology would be a great thing, maybe even the greatest dropin of the last 3 years, I somehow doubt that the Alpha will have that type of dropin. From the first pictures, I think that the head is actually a little bit to short to accommodate a P60 style dropin.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## 880arm

Xacto said:


> Although a P60 style dropin with AVS technology would be a great thing, maybe even the greatest dropin of the last 3 years, I somehow doubt that the Alpha will have that type of dropin. From the first pictures, I think that the head is actually a little bit to short to accommodate a P60 style dropin.
> 
> Cheers
> Thorsten



You're right about that, an AVS drop-in would be a great thing and, like you, I don't see it happening. Based on Grizz's rough estimate of 30mm head diameter and my own rougher estimate of about 4" length I think it could have been made to accept a P60 style drop-in but that would mean the drop-in would be secured in place by the relatively light weight bezel ring. That doesn't sound like something Elzetta would do with a weapon mountable light.

I suspect the LED assembly is secured in place with a snap ring, same as the AVS head in the photo below. Then the bezel ring only has to hold the optic in place. However, I wouldn't mind being proven wrong if it actually does have an AVS P60 drop-in!


----------



## 880arm

Update - FateofDestinee gets the scoop at SHOT Show. The Alpha can be used with either a flood or throw optic and the bezel rings will be replaceable. You can see all the details in the video at around the 1:15 mark . . .


----------



## RI Chevy

Looks very promising!


----------



## pjandyho

I just love the looks of the Alpha. The two stage switch just makes it awesome! I am even more convinced now that I am an Elzetta convert!


----------



## Xacto

jupp, although I still hope to one day find a SF 3P in a good condition, I "fear" that the Alpha will become part of my Elzetta family. 

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## DAN92

this little light is really good.


----------



## TMedina

Xacto said:


> Although a P60 style dropin with AVS technology would be a great thing, maybe even the greatest dropin of the last 3 years, I somehow doubt that the Alpha will have that type of dropin. From the first pictures, I think that the head is actually a little bit to short to accommodate a P60 style dropin.
> 
> Cheers
> Thorsten



Yep - looks like you're right.

Oh well, maybe next time.


----------



## Grizzman

I'm still waiting for the AVS High Output flood optic to be released. That should make an awesome room lighter for my nightstand Bravo.


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> I'm still waiting for the AVS High Output flood optic to be released. That should make an awesome room lighter for my nightstand Bravo.



Yep, I expect it should be a flood monster and perfect for indoor or CQB use. Truthfully it probably won't be too shabby for outdoor use out to 30-40 meters.

Should be just a few more weeks :thumbsup:


----------



## TracerX

I got to play with the Elzetta Bravo light - but the lack of 18650 Battery support is disappointing.


----------



## tonkem

Same issue with Surefire. You have to look at the light for what it is.... It is a great tactical light with proven durability. 



TracerX said:


> I got to play with the Elzetta Bravo light - but the lack of 18650 Battery support is disappointing.


----------



## Cerealand

TracerX said:


> I got to play with the Elzetta Bravo light - but the lack of 18650 Battery support is disappointing.



Oveready bores out the Elzetta hosts for a fee.


----------



## tonkem

Anyone get to play with the Alpha at Shot? Any comments?


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> I'm still waiting for the AVS High Output flood optic to be released. That should make an awesome room lighter for my nightstand Bravo.



The flood optics are now available for $20! 

They are almost all the way at the bottom of the Elzetta order page.


----------



## Craig K

880arm said:


> The flood optics are now available for $20!
> 
> They are almost all the way at the bottom of the Elzetta order page.



Where are they i can't see them on the order page???


----------



## 880arm

Craig K said:


> Where are they i can't see them on the order page???



Scroll to the very bottom and you should see the Elzetta ball cap. Then look just a little above that.

If they still don't show up you may need to refresh the page or clear your browser cache.


----------



## Cerealand

Looks similar to the flood optic that malkoff used to use in the M60 flood versions.


----------



## Craig K

880arm said:


> Scroll to the very bottom and you should see the Elzetta ball cap. Then look just a little above that.
> 
> If they still don't show up you may need to refresh the page or clear your browser cache.



Thanks i now can see it and i just bought one.


----------



## Xacto

880arm said:


> The flood optics are now available for $20!
> 
> .



Wowoh, thanks for the info. So sooner or later a Charlie with the flood optic will be on my way.... and once again I have to decide if I order directly from them (and have to fetch the box at the customs office) or buy it at our german retailer which has its merits in case of warranty issues.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## Grizzman

880arm said:


> The flood optics are now available for $20!



Thanks for bringing this up. 

I've ordered one, (and another High Output Head). 

Grizz


----------



## 880arm

Come rain, hail, or driving snow, the United States Postal Service delivers!





The new flood lens is as advertised. It's solid acrylic and (no surprise here) really floody. The face of the lens is slightly concave (sinks back into the head) and there is a small clear section in the center. The beam barely has a hint of a hotspot at very close range but you can't really notice it from several feet away. It lights a room extremely well and would go very nicely with a home defense weapon.

It's cold and snowing outside so I don't have a good feel for the effective range but I would say it's probably effective to 30+ yards in more normal conditions. Everything is so bright outside tonight (snow and street lights) I just can't say for sure.

I will try to get some beamshots this weekend, with or without Mother Nature's cooperation!


----------



## Craig K

880arm the flood optic looks good so what is your over all thoughts on it do you really like this new flood optic?


----------



## 880arm

Craig K said:


> 880arm the flood optic looks good so what is your over all thoughts on it do you really like this new flood optic?



I haven't had a lot of time to use it yet but I will reiterate that the beam intensity is very even and when compared to the standard lens there is much less glare off of nearby surfaces. It's well suited for room clearing or similar activities. Naturally the spill beam is much brighter and wider than the standard lens.

Personally I think the standard lens is pretty effective indoors since its spill tapers toward the edges of the beam and doesn't give as much glare as other lights with similar output. However, if you bounce the hotspot off a nearby door facing it can be blinding.

It doesn't fit my typical needs for EDC (I need more throw) but it will be staying in one of my Charlies for home use.


----------



## RI Chevy

I wonder if the heat will do anything to the acrylic after long term, continuous use? But it really is nice to have different options. :thumbsup:


----------



## P_A_S_1

The white part of the head (inside), is that a plastic lining on the aluminum?


----------



## Grizzman

The white part is a separate removable plastic sleeve into which the optic rests.

My flood optic will be arriving on Saturday. I look forward to comparing it, on a Bravo, to a Malkoff M60W MC-E module.


----------



## Grizzman

USPS tracking was a bit off and the flood optic has been delivered.

Now all I need is darkness.


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> USPS tracking was a bit off and the flood optic has been delivered.
> 
> Now all I need is darkness.



Good deal :thumbsup:


----------



## RI Chevy

Still can't wait for the single cell! :twothumbs


----------



## 880arm

Mother Nature and a lack of time are conspiring against me but I did manage to get some indoor beamshots with the new flood optic. It produces a very nice and even beam. After playing around with it outdoors a little bit I will revise my reach estimate up to 40-50 yards (that's the distance that I can make out a good level of detail - your results may vary).

In the photo below the Bravo and Charlie with the flood lens look almost identical but that's not really the case. My aim was a little off with the Charlie and more of its beam is out of frame on the left side 





I also wrote a mini-review that shows side-by-side comparisons with a variety of other lights, some equipped with diffusers.

I have been asked how the Charlie (with flood lens) compares to the Malkoff Wildcat and I can say they are nothing alike. Of the all the Malkoff products it most closely resembles the M91A.


----------



## Grizzman

Thanks for the photos, 880. They are completely accurate.

I'm happily surprised that the flood optic is able to reach out to 40-50 yards. It's still below freezing here with 8+ inches of snow still on the ground, so I haven't taken mine outside yet.

I happen to own a 2009 or so vintage Malkoff M60W MC-E LED assembly, which many consider to be the king of flood (excluding mules) for that time period. It, like the current Malkoff M60F, also uses a light diffusing optic to achieve a completely floody pattern, with no hard outside edge. When I reduce the Elzetta's output to match the 400 lumens of the Malkoff (by running the Bravo from an 18650) to more easily compare them, the results are quite similar. At a distance of about 10 feet to a large wall, the Malkoff has a noticeably larger central bright area, likely due to the larger quad die of the MC-E emitter. The transition from center of beam to 45 plus degrees off axis is smoother in the Elzetta. Light output far off axis is greater from the Elzetta (even when putting out sub-Bravo light levels) likely due to the shape and size of the optic's front surface. Running the Elzetta in stardard Bravo mode results in an obviously brighter room. Charlie mode output with the flood optic is truly impressive.

I suppose a few words regarding tint may be beneficial to some. The standard optic provides a cool center spot with neutral spill light. The flood optic blends it all together for a lovely neutral tint that is a very close approximation to a Nichia 219.....everywhere in the room. For indoor use, from an 18650 for nearly free lumens, the results are beyond reproach, and highly recommended.

I just remembered another comparison to document. The Charlie flood is extremely similar to a TorchLAB neutral triple XP-G2 light engine behind a frosted lens. The TorchLAB puts more light forward, but they both light the room relatively equally. The fact that the Elzetta compares favorably to a 1400ish lumen triple flood monster is testament to the effectiveness of the optic.


----------



## Taschenlampe Dude

Well, Grizzman, after reading your account of the flood optic, I'm regretting not having ordered it. I debated for some time before placing the order and ultimately didn't check the box. I suppose I'll have to add one to the next order.


----------



## Grizzman

Taschenlampe Dude said:


> Well, Grizzman, after reading your account of the flood optic, I'm regretting not having ordered it. I debated for some time before placing the order and ultimately didn't check the box. I suppose I'll have to add one to the next order.



If you like floody lights for indoor use, it should make you very happy. I'll also mention that all my AVS heads have crenelations, and they are in no way evident in the light pattern.


----------



## RI Chevy

I really like the even wall of soft light that the flood optic puts out! :thumbsup: Thanks for the photos. Excellent job.


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> . . . I'm happily surprised that the flood optic is able to reach out to 40-50 yards. It's still below freezing here with 8+ inches of snow still on the ground, so I haven't taken mine outside yet.



That's just my current guess as I haven't spent much quality time outside either due to the weather. Even 30 yards will satisfy me.

You made some good points regarding the beam tint. I don't own a light with the Nichia 219 but I agree that the tint is very neutral and does a good job of rendering colors.


----------



## Patrik

Looking so much forward to the Alpha but meanwhile beeing satisfied with the bravo and Charlie, although I would prefer cool White for the AVS.

1. Would you dare modding Another LED to your AVS-head? I mean would you have to sacrifice some of its reliability? 

2. Am I the only one hoping for a 2 x AA Elzetta body?


----------



## RI Chevy

The Elzetta 3 cell already fits 2-AA's. It is just like a Surefire 9P. If you are concerned with the battery rattle, you can get the delrin sleeve or make a set up of your own.


----------



## Patrik

*RI Chevy:* I was so not aware of that, just tryed it out and it works great and not much rattle at all. Must find the runtime graphs on this set up. Thanks! : )


----------



## RI Chevy

Patrik said:


> *RI Chevy:* I was so not aware of that, just tryed it out and it works great and not much rattle at all. Must find the runtime graphs on this set up. Thanks! : )



Cool. Keep us advised of your results. :thumbsup:


----------



## Craig K

Just received my flood optic and I love it.


----------



## Craig K

Does anyone know when the single cell Elzetta will be available?


----------



## tobrien

Craig K said:


> Does anyone know when the single cell Elzetta will be available?



I think the others were posting this summer


----------



## harrypotter

tobrien said:


> I think the others were posting this summer


Yes indeed, they will most probably show up on summer 2014. Looking forward to it.
Have ordered full set of of Bravo Charlie bodies, bezels and modules + all switches. Can't wait to play lego and find which one is the best for the applications I'll use 'em! Wonderful flashlights!!!


----------



## RI Chevy

Welcome to the Forum! :welcome:

Be sure to take a few photos of your different legozetta's for us to drool over!


----------



## FaithinGod

I would love to see Elzetta offer a light with electronics designed for 2 AA, providing fully current regulated 10 lumen low, and 80 lumen high.

I have a Surefire E2L-AA, but an Elzetta AA would be great.

FaithinGod


----------



## delus

I too was waiting for the flood lens and am impressed with it.
The questions are: Why don't they make a true spot lens as well? Would it not increase throw?
Is there some limitation in this type of lens where it cannot do extreme throw? Would a reflector be required?


----------



## 880arm

delus said:


> I too was waiting for the flood lens and am impressed with it.
> The questions are: Why don't they make a true spot lens as well? Would it not increase throw?
> Is there some limitation in this type of lens where it cannot do extreme throw? Would a reflector be required?



For definite answers you will probably need to ask Elzetta directly. They are very responsive to questions via e-mail or their Facebook page.

I suspect they would say that their clear lens represents a balance between spot and spill which allows good throw while maintaining peripheral vision. To me the most distinctive thing about their clear lens is that it produces an extremely broad hot spot/area which is very useful.


----------



## callmaster

And I want one! Time to start saving some coin.


----------



## RI Chevy

FaithinGod said:


> I would love to see Elzetta offer a light with electronics designed for 2 AA, providing fully current regulated 10 lumen low, and 80 lumen high.
> 
> I have a Surefire E2L-AA, but an Elzetta AA would be great.
> 
> FaithinGod



I doubt that will ever happen. It is designed around the CR123 cell, and designed for military/police use. AA's don't do well around the military/police environment. They are a niche market company. 

I am anxiously awaiting the single cell light.  I hope they design a different clip than the one shown in the photos.


----------



## FaithinGod

RI Chevy said:


> I doubt that will ever happen. It is designed around the CR123 cell, and designed for military/police use. AA's don't do well around the military/police environment. They are a niche market company.
> 
> True. But Surefire started out the same way, and ultimately provided an AA option.
> 
> Having found issues with the Surefire AA, it makes me think Elzetta may be able to do better.
> 
> I like to hope.
> 
> FaithinGod


----------



## RI Chevy

Surefire is also a much larger company producing many more lights and options.


----------



## callmaster

So we're expecting the single cell in June?


----------



## 880arm

callmaster said:


> So we're expecting the single cell in June?



They have only said that production will begin in the summer. No specific month has been mentioned.


----------



## FaithinGod

RI Chevy said:


> Surefire is also a much larger company producing many more lights and options.




Yes, also true, and I hold on to the hope that Elzetta will become large enough too, to provide that AA option.

FaithinGod


----------



## callmaster

880arm said:


> They have only said that production will begin in the summer. No specific month has been mentioned.



Oh, so I guess I won't wait. Get the others first then worry about the single cell later (I'd like to see some reviews first).

Has the new AVS heads gone through the same torture tests the M60 drop ins did?


----------



## 880arm

If you have ever wanted a red filter for your Elzetta, you're in luck! A new red flood optic is now available.


----------



## DAN92

880arm,

very well, thank you for this new.


----------



## tobrien

nice idea elzetta


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool idea.


----------



## 880arm

A lot of this thread is devoted to bragging on the lights themselves but I think customer service deserves a mention as well.

When I saw the red lenses were available, I promptly headed over to the Elzetta site and ordered one along with one of the new Elzetta caps. This was just after 5:00 p.m. on a Friday evening so I figured my order would be processed Monday. I was certainly in no hurry and this would have been fine with me.

Later Friday night I received my shipping notification indicating the mailing label had been printed. This was a minor surprise but not terribly unusual. Of course, this did not mean the package had actually shipped yet and I still expected it to go out Monday.

I just checked online and the package has shipped, is about 60 miles from here and is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Now THAT is speedy service! Good job Elzetta! :twothumbs


----------



## tobrien

^that's amazing stuff!


----------



## Albinoni1967

Wow very nice looking torches indeed btw are they USA made or overseas, they sound European to me.


----------



## Grizzman

Elzettas are made in USA, and are definitely high quality.


----------



## RI Chevy

Albinoni1967 said:


> Wow very nice looking torches indeed btw are they USA made or overseas, they sound European to me.



They do more than look good. They are built like a tank! They are very stout. Excellent quality for a made in the USA light. :thumbsup:


----------



## chanjyj

I'm holding off all other light purchases till the Alpha appears.


----------



## callmaster

I'm waiting for the Alpha as well, then I'll purchase the 2 cell and 3 cell AVS together.


----------



## 880arm

​
Received the red flood lens + one of their new caps today!

The cap is very nice and fits my big head quite well (I got a large). It's a good weight for spring/summer/fall use and all the stitching looks top notch. The embroidered Elzetta logos (both front and rear) are nicely done as well. :devil:

EDIT: As you would expect, the red diffuser lens really chokes down the output of the light and spreads it out over a wider area. I tested it on a Charlie body with the High/Low tailcap and I would say in low mode it's perfect for arm's length tasks. On high it stretches out to maybe 10 yards (it will reach farther than that but that's about as far as I could make out good detail).


----------



## Craig K

I think Elzetta has a new Website, check it out guys.


----------



## 880arm

Craig K said:


> I think Elzetta has a new Website, check it out guys.



Yes. It's a big improvement over the old site and is much easier to navigate.


----------



## tobrien

Craig K said:


> I think Elzetta has a new Website, check it out guys.





880arm said:


> Yes. It's a big improvement over the old site and is much easier to navigate.



nice catch! it looks clean


----------



## RI Chevy

Definitely a huge improvement over the old site. Much easier to navigate! :thumbsup:


----------



## DAN92

The new site has a very good visual.


----------



## Craig K

Hey guys just wanted to say my Elzetta Charlie using new flood optic I notice the tint is very neutral, I like it but just wondering are your Elzetta Charlie lights neutral tint like mine?


----------



## 880arm

Craig K said:


> Hey guys just wanted to say my Elzetta Charlie using new flood optic I notice the tint is very neutral, I like it but just wondering are your Elzetta Charlie lights neutral tint like mine?



All 3 of mine have a somewhat warm/neutral tint and everything I have heard from others has been the same.


----------



## Replicant

A few months ago I was able to find a couple of ZFL-M60s at a good price from a dealer that marked them down due to the arrival of the new AVS head. This was my first time buying Elzetta. They were definitely on my radar prior to this, but I had been happy with SF and Malkoff, so I put off buying one. I've been very happy in the short time that I've owned them. They're definitely as advertised.

Now the AVS head has caught my eye, and I appreciate the thorough reviews in this thread. It's what pushed me to buy it (880arm should get a commission). Should have it tomorrow.


----------



## tobrien

Replicant said:


> A few months ago I was able to find a couple of ZFL-M60s at a good price from a dealer that marked them down due to the arrival of the new AVS head. This was my first time buying Elzetta. They were definitely on my radar prior to this, but I had been happy with SF and Malkoff, so I put off buying one. I've been very happy in the short time that I've owned them. They're definitely as advertised.
> 
> Now the AVS head has caught my eye, and I appreciate the thorough reviews in this thread. It's what pushed me to buy it (880arm should get a commission). Should have it tomorrow.


congrats on the Elzettas bud


----------



## 880arm

Congratulations Replicant. And I like the way you think! :twothumbs


----------



## 880arm

For anyone who ever wished for a HA Natural Elzetta Bravo, the 2014 Limited Edition is available . . .





​It can be ordered with a choice of two optics (standard or flood) and two tailcaps (high/low or high/strobe).


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice! No word yet on the Alpha?


----------



## 880arm

RI Chevy said:


> Nice! No word yet on the Alpha?



Still hearing summer, nothing more specific than that. :sigh:


----------



## KeeblerElf

880arm said:


> Still hearing summer, nothing more specific than that. :sigh:



It's too bad there's no update yet. I'm very interested in the Alpha! And that goes double if its circuit is happy with an RCR123.


----------



## tonkem

I, also, am waiting patiently for the Alpha.


----------



## Craig K

tonkem said:


> I, also, am waiting patiently for the Alpha.



+1 on the Alpha


----------



## 880arm

Elzetta ships FAST! The 2014 Limited Edition Bravo has arrived . . .




I like the natural HA finish, it's a nice departure from plain old black. The engraving is very muted and has to be angled just right in order to read it well. 




​
I wish I hadn't missed out on some of the previous limited editions!


----------



## Craig K

I wonder why they did subdued laser engraving? I think I would like it to stand out a little more? maybe?


----------



## RI Chevy

The green Elzetta's were very nice too. :thumbsup: 

There was the shiny limited edition version. 

And the new Stealth version. 

All very nice!


----------



## jave-mtr

Need the ALPHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## callmaster

Not a fan of the limited edition bravo. I like the black.

Also waiting for the alpha


----------



## tobrien

great looking stealth there


----------



## Xacto

Just realized they dropped Paypal from their new shop system.... still pondering if I should get the 2014 Limited Edition Bravo. Too precious to use, too big a color difference to maybe use it some day as a spare parts supply.....

Decisions, decisions...

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## DAN92

callmaster said:


> Not a fan of the limited edition bravo. I like the black.


Neither do I, I find the gray too clear.


----------



## Craig K

> Just realized they dropped Paypal from their new shop system



What??? Are you saying you can't use Paypal to buy from the Elzetta Website anymore???


----------



## hron61

I like it, i like it alot. the gray bravo.


----------



## Xacto

Craig K said:


> What??? Are you saying you can't use Paypal to buy from the Elzetta Website anymore???



At the moment it seems so. Since I couldn't find a contact form on their site either, I asked them via their Facebook account if they plan to add it a some point in time. Still waiting for a reply. I fear that it may be too late to get the 2014 imited Edition light.

They still accept credit cards of course. 

Cheer
Thorsten


----------



## 880arm

Xacto said:


> At the moment it seems so. Since I couldn't find a contact form on their site either, I asked them via their Facebook account if they plan to add it a some point in time. Still waiting for a reply. I fear that it may be too late to get the 2014 imited Edition light.
> 
> They still accept credit cards of course.
> 
> Cheer
> Thorsten



I thought I saw them reply about that somewhere but I can't remember where :thinking:

They don't have a contact form but they do have their e-mail address and phone number listed on in the bottom-right corner of each page on their site.


----------



## leon2245

Is there a 2x18650 elzetta body/host?


----------



## RI Chevy

The Elzetta's were designed around the 3v CR123 cell, so I seriously doubt that they would ever design a 2 x 18650 host. All of their hosts are either 1 cell (Alpha coming very soon), 2 cell Bravo, or 3 cell Charlie. All based on the CR123 3v cell.


----------



## Cerealand

One option may be to get a 3 cell bored Elzetta and a bored extender to fit 2x18650s. I think they may work.


----------



## Mikeg23

The extenders would probably not work well with out modification


----------



## Cerealand

My host is not bored, but I was able to test it with a Oveready bored Surefire extender. I have a twisty Elzetta tailcap. Twist on option does not work, but momentary does work with the momentary Elzetta tailcap.. I took a picture of it with a clicky tailcap. That worked fine.


----------



## Mikeg23

Yea I wasn't sure about the extender to body contact. I know that when I ran my elzetta tailcap on my surefire 6p I had to use a battery spacer and even then it was not 100% reliable.


----------



## tonkem

Almost Summer and still no new news on the Alpha? Waiting.....


----------



## Mikeg23

Finally got the opportunity to go outside for a minute and play with some different lights including my new elzetta bravo with AVS head...

Most of my light are P60 based malkoff or nail bender so this one had a different feel in the hand with it's larger head but also a different beam profile than anything else I have.

I got the bravo thinking I would order a charlie body but putting three cells with a jumper wire on the bravo I don't see a real difference between 2 cells and 3 cells? Though it wasn't exactly a side by side comparison.


----------



## Mikeg23

Has anyone found a rates color temp or Cri for the avs head. Everytime the question is raised the answer always seems to be that it's is warmer than most other lights. It is not as warm as my M61N so just curious?


----------



## Swedpat

I am very tempted to get the bored Charlie from Oveready. I could use it with several battery configurations:

*2xCR123+dummy CR123(600lm)
*3xCR123(900lm)
*17670/18650+dummy CR123(500lm)
*2x18500(900lm)

The crenelated bezel looks cool but propably it will eat the pocket so I think I prefer flat bezel.


----------



## Grizzman

Mikeg23 said:


> Has anyone found a rates color temp or Cri for the avs head. Everytime the question is raised the answer always seems to be that it's is warmer than most other lights. It is not as warm as my M61N so just curious?



The AVS head's standard optic has two distinct color temperatures. The flood optic of the AVS head mixes the cooler spot with the warmer spill to create a composite CCT that's very close to the 4500K of my Nichia 219s.


----------



## RI Chevy

Swedpat said:


> I am very tempted to get the bored Charlie from Oveready. I could use it with several battery configurations:
> 
> *2xCR123+dummy CR123(600lm)
> *3xCR123(900lm)
> *17670/18650+dummy CR123(500lm)
> *2x18500(900lm)



I got my older 3 cell bored and run 2x18500 Sanyo unprotected cells, and I must admit that they are extremely TIGHT! I can't imagine using other cells that are protected. I am not liking the way the tail cap mounts up with the host based on the already tight fit. If I had to do it over again. I would have kept it stock and just used the 3 primaries. The high/low tailcap diode is very touchy. 

The same 2x18500 cells swim in my bored Surefire 9P.


----------



## Grizzman

RI Chevy said:


> I got my older 3 cell bored and run 2x18500 Sanyo unprotected cells, and I must admit that they are extremely TIGHT! I can't imagine using other cells that are protected. I am not liking the way the tail cap mounts up with the host based on the already tight fit......The high/low tailcap diode is very touchy.



Who bored it? I had Oveready bore a 2-cell ZFL-M60, and it comfortably accepts protected AW 3400 mah 18650s. The High/Low tailcap works as well as ever.


----------



## RI Chevy

Oveready. The battery circumference is fine, it is the length of the 2x18500 cells that is the issue. The Elzetta tail caps are not held on by that many threads.


----------



## Grizzman

Okay. I can see how that could be an issue, since two 18500s are a little longer than three CR123s. I typically run my Charlie with primaries, but occasionally use two 17500s.


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> Who bored it? I had Oveready bore a 2-cell ZFL-M60, and it comfortably accepts protected AW 3400 mah 18650s. The High/Low tailcap works as well as ever.



The Charlie is not quite one full CR123 longer than the Bravo (hope that makes sense). As a result, where a 65mm cell fits comfortably in a Bravo, two 50mm long cells make for a very tight fit in the Charlie and can cause issues with tailcap fitment. This can be alleviated somewhat by loosening the head a little bit but that's not a great solution either. It's for this reason that I don't routinely use 17500s in my Charlie bodies. 

This design didn't seem like something that happened by accident and Dave, at Elzetta, confirmed that the Charlie was made slightly "short" so that it would better control the added mass of the extra CR123.


----------



## KeeblerElf

Out of curiosity, will the AVS head run off a single primary (with spacer(s), of course)? If so, what's the output and run time like?

Has anyone done approximate run times for a single 18650 in a bored Bravo? Is the light essentially running direct drive at that point, with a nice taper? I think I recall seeing somewhere that the output on a fresh 18650 is almost identical to the output on 2 x 123.


----------



## ElectronGuru

KeeblerElf said:


> Out of curiosity, will the AVS head run off a single primary (with spacer(s), of course)? If so, what's the output and run time like?
> 
> Has anyone done approximate run times for a single 18650 in a bored Bravo? Is the light essentially running direct drive at that point, with a nice taper? I think I recall seeing somewhere that the output on a fresh 18650 is almost identical to the output on 2 x 123.




I've not checked runtime, but natural cutoff is below 3.0v. A single 123 will run, if not for its entire discharge, but output is on the order of 100 lumens long before then. 1x18650 is about 20% less than 2x123 and provides a long continuous taper. Rather like an M60 from the same cell. So like other 2 cell setups, go 2x18350 for lumens and 1x18650 for runtime.


----------



## DAN92

I ordered a new "Bravo" today, payment by credit card visa, shipping of my package after a few hours for France.

Wow!, that's customer service, fast and efficient, thanks Elzetta.:thumbsup:


----------



## Ishango

I'm also waiting for the Alpha. I was looking at the Bravo, but I have plenty 18650/double CR123A lights already.


----------



## RI Chevy

880arm said:


> The Charlie is not quite one full CR123 longer than the Bravo (hope that makes sense). As a result, where a 65mm cell fits comfortably in a Bravo, two 50mm long cells make for a very tight fit in the Charlie and can cause issues with tailcap fitment. This can be alleviated somewhat by loosening the head a little bit but that's not a great solution either. It's for this reason that I don't routinely use 17500s in my Charlie bodies.
> 
> This design didn't seem like something that happened by accident and Dave, at Elzetta, confirmed that the Charlie was made slightly "short" so that it would better control the added mass of the extra CR123.



Interesting response. I plan on getting a 2 cell bored. Good to know that I won't have the same issue with the 2 cell (18650) that I have with the 3 cell (2x18500). :thumbsup: 

Just out of curiosity, is the any difference in the length of the AVS head/bezel length as far as fitment to the host (As fitting the spring to the batteries), as compared with the original design with the M60 drop in? I guess what I am asking is, "Would the AVS head/bezel provide me with any extra room inside the host with fitting the 2x18500 in my bored host?" 

I think the 2x18500 cells would fit better without the battery lip. Maybe if the host was bored without the battery lip, there would be a little more room inside the host, as the batteries would be riding on spring to spring. The battery lip does not allow the batteries to go any higher into the host, whereas without the lip, the batteries would free-float. That might provide a little extra room for the tail cap to fit a little better.


----------



## KeeblerElf

ElectronGuru said:


> I've not checked runtime, but natural cutoff is below 3.0v. A single 123 will run, if not for its entire discharge, but output is on the order of 100 lumens long before then. 1x18650 is about 20% less than 2x123 and provides a long continuous taper. Rather like an M60 from the same cell. So like other 2 cell setups, go 2x18350 for lumens and 1x18650 for runtime.



Thanks for the helpful reply, as always!

Ordered an Oveready-bored Elzetta Bravo with 2 x IMR 18350, both optics, and a couple other extras. I can't wait to test the light - hopefully it arrives before the weekend! :thumbsup:


----------



## 880arm

RI Chevy said:


> Interesting response. I plan on getting a 2 cell bored. Good to know that I won't have the same issue with the 2 cell (18650) that I have with the 3 cell (2x18500). :thumbsup:



It makes a difference. I just took some measurements of the Bravo and Charlie bodies (no tailcap and no bezel). The Bravo measures 96 mm long versus the Charlie at just a hair under 127 mm, a difference of less than 31 mm. This is the entire body, not just the battery compartment.

This makes a very visible difference when comparing a Bravo and Charlie side by side. When the Bravo is loaded with two batteries, the cells are nearly flush with the end of the tailcap threads, protruding less than 1 mm. When the Charlie is loaded with three cells, the battery stack extends over 3.5 mm beyond the tailcap threads. With CR123s, the tailcap on the Charlie fits and works just fine but it is noticeably tighter when being threaded onto the body (compared to the Bravo).

My AW 17500 cells result in the battery stack being a couple of millimeters longer which creates issues when using the High/Low and High/Strobe tailcaps as it is more difficult to tighten the tailcap fully. The low/strobe modes work fine but the high mode is a little too finicky for regular carry. I have meant to see if there were any 17500 cells that were slightly shorter than the ones I have from AW but haven't gotten around to searching for any yet. 



RI Chevy said:


> Just out of curiosity, is the any difference in the length of the AVS head/bezel length as far as fitment to the host (As fitting the spring to the batteries), as compared with the original design with the M60 drop in? I guess what I am asking is, "Would the AVS head/bezel provide me with any extra room inside the host with fitting the 2x18500 in my bored host?"



No difference than I can see or measure. The AVS heatsink/module has basically the same dimensions as the Malkoff M60 drop-in, fits into the same pocket at the end of the body and there is a negligible difference in the springs.



RI Chevy said:


> I think the 2x18500 cells would fit better without the battery lip. Maybe if the host was bored without the battery lip, there would be a little more room inside the host, as the batteries would be riding on spring to spring. The battery lip does not allow the batteries to go any higher into the host, whereas without the lip, the batteries would free-float. That might provide a little extra room for the tail cap to fit a little better.



You can test this by unscrewing the head a little bit before installing the tailcap. If there is no difference in tailcap fit then it could confirm that the lip is the limiting factor.

I don't have a bored Elzetta but I did notice that my AW 18500 cells are just a tiny bit shorter than my 17500s. It seems that this would improve your fit over what I'm experiencing but I also remember Barry posting this information about the Elzetta bodies. I don't know how OR is boring these hosts but if the tailcap threads are shortened at all it seems that this would make tailcap fitment more difficult.


----------



## RI Chevy

WOW. Thank you for the info. Looks like a whole thread on the tail cap disappears (From 4 to 3) after the bore job. I will try a few of your suggestions on the bezel and tail caps. Thanks again. :thumbsup:


----------



## Swedpat

RI Chevy said:


> I got my older 3 cell bored and run 2x18500 Sanyo unprotected cells, and I must admit that they are extremely TIGHT! I can't imagine using other cells that are protected. I am not liking the way the tail cap mounts up with the host based on the already tight fit. If I had to do it over again. I would have kept it stock and just used the 3 primaries. The high/low tailcap diode is very touchy.
> 
> The same 2x18500 cells swim in my bored Surefire 9P.



That does not sounds good... And I intended to get the high/low tailcap. Otherwise I could get Bravo and use it with RCR123s. 
The reason Charlie caught my main interest is that I already have a bunch of 18500s(but no RCR123s) and that 2x18500 should provide around twice the runtime than 2xRCR123. And I still would have the possibility to use Charlie with a single 18650 adding a dummy CR123.


----------



## callmaster

Any updates on the alpha?


----------



## Kamerat

PoliceScannerMan said:


> So I charged up an AW 3400 on my Pila IBC and let it rest 48 hours.
> 
> I turned on my Oveready bored for 18650 Elzetta with the new high output head.
> 
> I have no light meter this test was clearly by eye.
> 
> It ran at full brightness for 1 hour 40 minutes, then it had a slow taper, at 3 hours and 20 minutes it was approx 100 lumens.
> 
> I stopped the test. The AW 3400 was at 3.14V immediately after I turned the light off.
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thank you! Very helpful.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks , so if I were to order the AVS , what would it be as in the lens ?
it says on elzetta 900 AVS , that's all.
what lens has that nichia kinda colour ?

would it still be a 900 or one of those malkoff 235 lumen ones ?
looking for a thrower than flood. 
Wondering if that tint is still possible then to have the thrower with the warmer nichia type tint or would it be just cool white blueish ? 

Thanks lots 



Grizzman said:


> The AVS head's standard optic has two distinct color temperatures. The flood optic of the AVS head mixes the cooler spot with the warmer spill to create a composite CCT that's very close to the 4500K of my Nichia 219s.


----------



## Grizzman

neutralwhite said:


> Thanks , so if I were to order the AVS , what would it be as in the lens ?
> it says on elzetta 900 AVS , that's all.
> what lens has that nichia kinda colour ?
> 
> would it still be a 900 or one of those malkoff 235 lumen ones ?
> looking for a thrower than flood.
> Wondering if that tint is still possible then to have the thrower with the warmer nichia type tint or would it be just cool white blueish ?
> 
> Thanks lots



If you are looking for a uniform AVS head with 4500-ish K tint that throws well, the Elzetta AVS won't deliver. The standard optics, which could be described as the throwy version, produce a cool central spot with warmer spill. The optic that mixes the two color temperatures together to create a single 4500K temperature is designed for maximum flood, not throw.

An option is to go with a standard Elzetta head and put up a want to buy ad for a Malkoff M60W light engine. It will be around 3700K, will throw better than the AVS flood optic, but will only output 170 lumens.


----------



## calflash

How is it possible to have two different CCTs from one LED? Wouldn't the hot spot and the spill be the same CCT just with different intensities? Or am I missing something?


----------



## neutralwhite

Same thought here. 



calflash said:


> How is it possible to have two different CCTs from one LED? Wouldn't the hot spot and the spill be the same CCT just with different intensities? Or am I missing something?


----------



## RobertMM

Some LEDs emit cooler light at the centers of their phosphors and warmer light near the edges, just like the XML, which on some reflectors project a hotspot which is warmer than the spill, or the Nichia GS with the famous angry blue rectangle hotspot. My Solarforce M9 has such a beam, neutral spot with cool spill.
A diffuser or flood type optic such as on the Elzettas will even it out and produce a uniform CCT for the whole beam.


----------



## calflash

Hmm. I guess I've never seen that. Must be unique to the optic that Elzetta is using then? 

Can someone post pictures of both of the AVS beams that show this color difference? Most beam shots I've seen don't portray the cool spot. Or, maybe more useful: Can anyone sample the spill CCT and the hotspot CCT and provide actual numbers?


----------



## neutralwhite

Hey is it me being blind or is it the elzetta site; it says you can have the option of engraving the stealth bravo but I can't see where that bit is to add what you want there.
using a iPhone 5 if that is any help .
Thanks


----------



## 880arm

neutralwhite said:


> Hey is it me being blind or is it the elzetta site; it says you can have the option of engraving the stealth bravo but I can't see where that bit is to add what you want there.
> using a iPhone 5 if that is any help .
> Thanks



Either it's you or I'm going blind myself as I don't see an option to have personalized engraving on the Stealth. There are several mentions of the "subdued laser engraving" but those all refer to the normal engraving on the light.

Even if personalized engraving were available, I would recommend skipping it and saving the 10 bucks as it's not easy to read on the Stealth.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks , I did write to elzetta to ask about that.
if it wasn't engraved, what would be in place of it then ? 
Thanks lots 





880arm said:


> Either it's you or I'm going blind myself as I don't see an option to have personalized engraving on the Stealth. There are several mentions of the "subdued laser engraving" but those all refer to the normal engraving on the light.
> 
> Even if personalized engraving were available, I would recommend skipping it and saving the 10 bucks as it's not easy to read on the Stealth.


----------



## 880arm

neutralwhite said:


> Thanks , I did write to elzetta to ask about that.
> if it wasn't engraved, what would be in place of it then ?
> Thanks lots



It's got the standard Elzetta name, logo and Bravo designation on one side . . . .





And the STEALTH moniker and Elzetta logo on the other. This is where personalized engraving would normally be . . .




​
I never inquired about personalized engraving but I didn't see it mentioned on the site so I assumed it wasn't available for the limited edition Bravo. Of course, you know what they say about making assumptions . . . :thumbsup:


----------



## KeeblerElf

In case anyone is interested, I'm doing a very unscientific runtime test on my new Bravo, using an Eagletac 3400mAh 18650. I have it tail standing in my bathroom in a glass. So far, we're nearing 68 hours on low plus 1 hour on high (used intermittently to provide extra light in the room during showers). To my eye, it's still a good 400 or so lumens on high (using the flood optic for the test). I will keep everyone updated, but so far I'm rather pleased!


----------



## tobrien

KeeblerElf said:


> In case anyone is interested, I'm doing a very unscientific runtime test on my new Bravo, using an Eagletac 3400mAh 18650. I have it tail standing in my bathroom in a glass. So far, we're nearing 68 hours on low plus 1 hour on high (used intermittently to provide extra light in the room during showers). To my eye, it's still a good 400 or so lumens on high (using the flood optic for the test). I will keep everyone updated, but so far I'm rather pleased!



nice! is it still going?


----------



## KeeblerElf

tobrien said:


> nice! is it still going?



I decided to conclude the test tonight. Here's a summary. After about 115 hours on low *and* 90 to 120 minutes on high on a 3400mAh Eagletac 18650, the AVS head with flood optic had about 20 to 30 lumens on low and around 200 lumens on high. So output was certainly visibly diminished compared to the start of the test, but still quite useful. I also did a ceiling bounce test in my closet with my HDS, which is as close to a calibration as I am able to get. To my eye, the total output on low was about the same as the 12th lowest setting on the Rotary 250, and the high output was about the same as the 2nd highest setting on the Rotary 250. I don't have a voltmeter, but I can say that the cell has a single blinking light on the Nitecore i2 charger.

Well, I have to say that I'm quite impressed that so much can be squeezed out of an 18650! This light is quickly becoming one of my very favorites! Maybe I'll do a test with a single primary some time soon...


----------



## KeeblerElf

I went ahead and posted a review of the Oveready-bored Elzetta Bravo with AVS head and high/low tailcap in Oveready's review thread. This is a way to get some of my thoughts out there for those of you who don't have the opportunity to test the light yourselves, and it also serves as a small way to show Oveready some support, as they've patiently answered so many of my questions and generally have excellent customer service.


----------



## ElectronGuru

There seems to be some confusion on bored Charlie battery options. 18490s are shorter than unprotected 18500's and fit just like a protected 18650 does in the Bravo:


----------



## 880arm

ElectronGuru said:


> There seems to be some confusion on bored Charlie battery options. 18490s are shorter than unprotected 18500's and fit just like a protected 18650 does in the Bravo:



Good information Dan. From the pics 2x18490s fit with no issues at all!


----------



## Redhat703

ElectronGuru said:


> There seems to be some confusion on bored Charlie battery options. 18490s are shorter than unprotected 18500's and fit just like a protected 18650 does in the Bravo:


I notice that the new Charlie body has more threads at the tail than the old one. Mine has only 4 while the new one has 6.


----------



## RI Chevy

Good find Red. :thumbsup: I am sure the extra threads would help out a lot with holding down the tail cap and fitting the batteries into 18mm bored hosts with a little breathing room.


----------



## tobrien

RI Chevy said:


> I am sure the extra threads would help out a lot with holding down the tail cap and fitting the batteries into 18mm bored hosts with a little breathing room.



that's a good thought!


----------



## Kaban

What rechargeable option do you have with the stock (not bored) 2-cell and 3-cell bodies? Can you use RC123 batteries?


----------



## 880arm

Kaban said:


> What rechargeable option do you have with the stock (not bored) 2-cell and 3-cell bodies? Can you use RC123 batteries?



You can in the Bravo but 3xRCR123 (16340s) might be a little too much voltage in the Charlie configuration. The AVS head is supposed to be good up to 12 volts.


----------



## Grizzman

Mistake.


----------



## Kaban

880arm said:


> You can in the Bravo but 3xRCR123 (16340s) might be a little too much voltage in the Charlie configuration. The AVS head is supposed to be good up to 12 volts.


Thank you.

Is there another battery option in the stock 3-cell body? I don't want to bore them.


----------



## 880arm

Kaban said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Is there another battery option in the stock 3-cell body? I don't want to bore them.



2x17500 will fit but mine (AW brand) are just a little bit too long and cause issues with tail cap operation with the high/low tail cap. If there is another brand that is a little bit shorter, they may work better. 

3xLFP123 should work (these are the "3 volt" rechargeable 16340 sized batteries) but I haven't tried it myself. Might test it here in a little while.


----------



## Kaban

880arm said:


> 2x17500 will fit but mine (AW brand) are just a little bit too long and cause issues with tail cap operation with the high/low tail cap. If there is another brand that is a little bit shorter, they may work better.
> 
> 3xLFP123 should work (these are the "3 volt" rechargeable 16340 sized batteries) but I haven't tried it myself. Might test it here in a little while.



Great information!

If there's a chance you can test the 3xLFP123, that would be amazing! Thanks again.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Can somebody please dumb down for me how to order the Elzetta i want? I want the Elzetta that can be used as a hammer to drive nails lol, I want the 900 lumen one not the below 300 lumen version...i believe that means AVS head but the website is so non user friendly i don't see that option (or explanation). I'd prefer a floody version not throwy. And with the head that looks like shark teeth! Thanks


----------



## Grizzman

BeastFlashlight said:


> Can somebody please dumb down for me how to order the Elzetta i want? I want the Elzetta that can be used as a hammer to drive nails lol, I want the 900 lumen one not the below 300 lumen version...i believe that means AVS head but the website is so non user friendly i don't see that option (or explanation). I'd prefer a floody version not throwy. And with the head that looks like shark teeth! Thanks



Which tailcap do you want, rotary only, click single output, high/low, or high strobe?


----------



## 880arm

BeastFlashlight said:


> Can somebody please dumb down for me how to order the Elzetta i want? I want the Elzetta that can be used as a hammer to drive nails lol, I want the 900 lumen one not the below 300 lumen version...i believe that means AVS head but the website is so non user friendly i don't see that option (or explanation). I'd prefer a floody version not throwy. And with the head that looks like shark teeth! Thanks



Go here.

You will start by adding one of the body styles to your cart. After that, it will step you through the remaining options. Just make your selections from the drop-down boxes as they are presented to you.

From what you stated, your options will be as follows:

Body: Charlie
LED: AVS Module (900 lumens) with Flood lens
Bezel (Head): Crenelated Bezel
Tailcap: ?????? (Pick what you want)
Then all you have to do is sit back and wait a couple of days for some Elzetta awesomeness


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Thanks guys!! By the way i def want a clicky switch not rotary


----------



## 880arm

Sounds like you want the C342 (Charlie, Crenellated Bezel, AVS Head w/ Flood Lens, Click Tailcap)


----------



## BeastFlashlight

880arm said:


> Sounds like you want...Charlie, Crenellated Bezel, AVS Head w/ Flood Lens, Click Tailcap



Yes! I'm wondering who would wanna shell out the hefty price tag but only get a version with a third of the lumens?? To each his own though i suppose


----------



## Tmack

I just grabbed an elzetta shotgun light mount. Very impressed. I may have to get a light to match now.


----------



## Grizzman

BeastFlashlight said:


> Yes! I'm wondering who would wanna shell out the hefty price tag but only get a version with a third of the lumens?? To each his own though i suppose



The size difference between the standard and AVS heads is significant. While I can carry a Bravo with AVS head in the front pocket of cargo shorts, I cannot comfortably do this when wearing most of my blue jeans.


----------



## scout24

Let's not discount the Malkoff goodness and modularity that goes with the non-AVS head... Upgradeable for just about forever. Or LL modules for absolutely killer runtime. I could go on... Each has it's place.  Glad to have the choices.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Grizzman said:


> The size difference between the standard and AVS heads is significant. While I can carry a Bravo with AVS head in the front pocket of cargo shorts, I cannot comfortably do this when wearing most of my blue jeans.


Gotcha


----------



## Kaban

880arm said:


> You can in the Bravo but 3xRCR123 (16340s) might be a little too much voltage in the Charlie configuration. The AVS head is supposed to be good up to 12 volts.


Question,

I am a total noob at this, but I looked into the AW RCR123 and they are 3.7V. Using three of those would still put you under 12V. Can someone explain why this is not safe?


----------



## thedoc007

Kaban said:


> I am a total noob at this, but I looked into the AW RCR123 and they are 3.7V. Using three of those would still put you under 12V. Can someone explain why this is not safe?



3.7 volts is the nominal voltage (based on the AVERAGE voltage over a full cycle). When fully charged, ICR lithium ion cells are 4.2 volts. So 12.6 volts total, which is over spec.


----------



## Grizzman

thedoc007 said:


> 3.7 volts is the nominal voltage (based on the AVERAGE voltage over a full cycle). When fully charged, ICR lithium ion cells are 4.2 volts. So 12.6 volts total, which is over spec.



....though under load they should sag to a safe voltage level.


----------



## thedoc007

Grizzman said:


> ....though under load they should sag to a safe voltage level.



Depending on how much current you ask of them. They can sag a full .5 volts, if you ask for a lot of juice. But many cells can sustain mild or moderate draws for a while before failling to under 4 volts. HKJ has many discharge curves that help illustrate the issue. In any case, I prefer to have my cells and driver be in spec at all times, not just most of the time. There may be some margin for error, but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way. Especially not with a light as expensive as an Elzetta.


----------



## 880arm

Yeah, 3xRCR123 might be OK but even if they work, it will just mean more heat and a really short runtime. I don't think I could bring myself to try it.

On a slightly different topic . . . .





Please let this be true!!


----------



## Grizzman

I did not state that I recommend using three RCRs with the AVS head, just that it should be safe. I personally don't have any problems using two 17500s in my Charlie.

I'm also very interested in the Alpha.


----------



## GeoBruin

Yikes! Both Ezletta and FlashlightGuide are on Twitter and I've not been following!?


----------



## DAN92

880arm said:


> On a slightly different topic . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please let this be true!!


That seems good for an imminent exit.


----------



## Swedpat

I really like the design of Elzetta and am interested in a bored version. Would like to see runtime graphs of the new brighter optics with different battery set-ups like 18650 and 2x18490. Anyone who has done some measuring?


----------



## yoyoman

Oveready offers bored ones and we know how good they are with international shipments. There are some posts and reviews with runtimes.


----------



## Swedpat

yoyoman said:


> Oveready offers bored ones and we know how good they are with international shipments. There are some posts and reviews with runtimes.



Yes, I thought about Oveready. Any link to more information of runtimes?


----------



## KeeblerElf

Swedpat said:


> Yes, I thought about Oveready. Any link to more information of runtimes?



Here's a little run time information from one of my posts on the previous page of this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-kept-secret&p=4446064&viewfull=1#post4446064


----------



## 880arm

GeoBruin said:


> Yikes! Both Ezletta and FlashlightGuide are on Twitter and I've not been following!?



What's up with that!! 

Elzetta is worth following for sure. They routinely tweet out tips and tricks that can apply to any tactical light, not just their own. As far as FlashlightGuide is concerned, I guess it's OK :shrug:



Swedpat said:


> I really like the design of Elzetta and am interested in a bored version. Would like to see runtime graphs of the new brighter optics with different battery set-ups like 18650 and 2x18490. Anyone who has done some measuring?



I know someone who is running a test right this second. After the discussion last week about the bored Charlie bodies I had to go ahead and order one for myself.






My order arrived today along with a bunch of awesome review samples. Can't talk much about the other items right now but the bore job on the Charlie is simply perfect (as you would expect from OVEREADY) and the 2xAW18490 IMR fit with ease. I will try it out with protected 18500s next.


----------



## Swedpat

KeeblerElf said:


> Here's a little run time information from one of my posts on the previous page of this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-kept-secret&p=4446064&viewfull=1#post4446064



Thanks. Around 200lm after 90-120min seems pretty good. Oveready states 500lm initial brightness so that should mean maybe 400lm after 30min and 300lm after 60min I guess. Do you think that's a fair guess? Did you consider to get a lightmeter? It's a good way to get more exakt measuring of the percentual difference during the runtime.
I consider a bored Charlie because I can use as well 17670 and 18650(with 123 dummy) as well as 2x18490, and of course 2 and 3xCR123. That means several battery possibilites.


----------



## yoyoman

The bored Charlie does seem to offer many different battery possibilities. A lot of flexibility and just a little more length.


----------



## 880arm

Results are encouraging after testing the Charlie (with AVS head) with rechargeable batteries. It's no surprise that the rechargeable cells are able to sustain the higher output much better than 3xCR123a primary batteries.




I used a fan in all these tests since the Charlie gets very hot when operated continuously and I wanted to make life easier on the LED, the batteries, and my light box!

The AW 18500 (protected) cells ran for a shade over 65 minutes before dropping down to the lower level. A couple of minutes later the battery protection circuit activated in one of the cells.

The AW 18490 IMR cells gave just over 59 minutes of runtime before dropping to the "650 lumen" level. I ended the test at this point to avoid over discharging the cells and measured them at ~3.29V. After 20 minutes of rest, they recovered to ~3.40V before I placed them on the charger. All things considered, I think these are the best choice for use with a bored body.

The K2 Energy LFP123 batteries ran for almost 33 minutes before their abrupt decline.


----------



## Kaban

Is there anyone on the forums that can bore out flashlights cost effectively? I saw the Oveready lights, they are amazing but it seems like you are buying a complete flashlight as opposed to just the body.


----------



## Cerealand

Kaban said:


> Is there anyone on the forums that can bore out flashlights cost effectively? I saw the Oveready lights, they are amazing but it seems like you are buying a complete flashlight as opposed to just the body.



Oveready also bore the elzetta bodies. It looks the last batch was done recently, so there may be quite a wait.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ezel-Tailcap-Options-%28P-C-Z-and-M-Series%29


----------



## 880arm

You can also purchase the body by itself from OVEREADY by going to the page for the "Elzetta 3 cell Custom Host." By default it comes with a head/bezel and tailcap but you can deselect these two options and get just the body.


----------



## DAN92

About alpha, great news ...




Enjoy!


----------



## leon2245

DAN92 said:


> About alpha, great news ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!




Sorry haven't been following along, will that thing be compatible with m31 drop ins?


----------



## 46Alpha

leon2245 said:


> Sorry haven't been following along, will that thing be compatible with m31 drop ins?



That would be nice!


----------



## pjandyho

leon2245 said:


> Sorry haven't been following along, will that thing be compatible with m31 drop ins?


My preliminary understanding is that the only part that is changeable would be the optic and bezel. Don't think you can unscrew the head from the body. I may be wrong but that was my understanding when the Alpha first appeared a few months back.


----------



## DAN92

pjandyho said:


> My preliminary understanding is that the only part that is changeable would be the optic and bezel. Don't think you can unscrew the head from the body. I may be wrong but that was my understanding when the Alpha first appeared a few months back.


I think the same thing.


----------



## 46Alpha

pjandyho said:


> My preliminary understanding is that the only part that is changeable would be the optic and bezel. Don't think you can unscrew the head from the body. I may be wrong but that was my understanding when the Alpha first appeared a few months back.



That's too bad. Elzetta might have finally had a winner on their hands :thumbsdow


----------



## BIG45-70

This maybe my first cr123 light, in a very long time.


----------



## Xacto

The Alpha looks nice, but to me it will finally depend on the price tag. I can live with the price tag of the Bravo and Charlie versions since I know I can upgrade/replace every single component, thus keeping them usable. With a fixed LED/driver assembly, the repair/upgrade options are limited.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## DAN92

Elzetta announces that the alpha delivers 315 lumens.


----------



## Swedpat

I am looking forward to see a runtime graph of Alpha.


----------



## leon2245

Do we know overall length & head dia. yet?


----------



## jave-mtr

They just posted the prices for the Alpha on Facebook!
Head/Body: $74
Bezel: Standard $10, Crenellated $15
Lens: Standard $10, Flood $10
Tailcap: Rotary $36, Click $41, High/Low $56, High/Strobe $56, Tape switch $80


----------



## 880arm

jave-mtr said:


> They just posted the prices for the Alpha on Facebook!
> Head/Body: $74
> Bezel: Standard $10, Crenellated $15
> Lens: Standard $10, Flood $10
> Tailcap: Rotary $36, Click $41, High/Low $56, High/Strobe $56, Tape switch $80



With a "base" price of $130 it's much lower than I expected. Elzetta, my wallet thanks you!


----------



## KeeblerElf

Those prices seem quite reasonable! I notice there's no mention of that pocket clip that's been mentioned before.

I wonder about the run time on high and low, and whether the light will accept RCR. This could be a very, very nice light...


----------



## leon2245

Are their click tailcaps shrouded?


----------



## tonkem

Available when?


----------



## 880arm

KeeblerElf said:


> Those prices seem quite reasonable! I notice there's no mention of that pocket clip that's been mentioned before.
> 
> I wonder about the run time on high and low, and whether the light will accept RCR. This could be a very, very nice light...



I was wondering about the clip too and sent an e-mail a while ago asking about it. Not that this means anything but the fact that it hasn't been shown in any of their recent photos makes me think it's not ready yet.



leon2245 said:


> Are their click tailcaps shrouded?



No. All of their tailcaps look basically the same, regardless of which type it is. The switch is relatively low profile compared to others and has a hard rubber boot so there's not much worry about accidental activation. However, they definitely won't tail stand.






tonkem said:


> Available when?



It's gotta be soon


----------



## scout24

Looking good, thanks!


----------



## tobrien

yeah I'm surprised theyre keeping the sticker price relatively low


----------



## tonkem

I just went to their site and used the flashlight configurator and you can configure and place in your cart an Alpha! Says they are in stock!



tonkem said:


> Available when?


----------



## tonkem

Looking forward to 880arn's review


----------



## 46Alpha

tonkem said:


> Looking forward to 880arn's review



+1

I've never been overly impressed with Elzetta's offerings. I'm hoping this little light will be an exception.


----------



## DAN92

Alpha , model A113 bought today. :twothumbs


----------



## 880arm

tonkem said:


> Looking forward to 880arn's review



Me too! I'll be getting right on it :twothumbs



46Alpha said:


> +1
> 
> I've never been overly impressed with Elzetta's offerings. I'm hoping this little light will be an exception.



Any particular reason why? Not arguing here, just interested in the perspective.



DAN92 said:


> Alpha , model A113 bought today. :twothumbs



I ordered an A112 and A321 last night. I think (hope) they will be shipping a bunch of these today!


----------



## Str8stroke

A313 ordered just now. My first Elzetta at that. Should be interesting. Hoping it is bomb proof like its big brothers.


----------



## DAN92

880arm said:


> I ordered an A112 and A321 last night. I think (hope) they will be shipping a bunch of these today!


Great :thumbsup:, I wait your review with impatience.


----------



## hatman

Very interested in the Alpha but have some questions.

The pictured Alpha doesn't seem to look as cool as photos of the prototype:
http://flashlightguide.com/2013/12/new-elzetta-alpha-planned-2014/

As to the tint, I can't find any description of it.

Also, the specs show a maximum time of 51 minutes run time -- that doesn't seem like much these days.

Finally, no mention of the clip Elzetta has talked about.


----------



## TMedina

51 minutes doesn't sound like a lot, but that's 300ish lumens on a single CR123 cell.

I'm guessing regulated as well, so you can count on maxim output for those 51 minutes.


----------



## DAN92

At the moment, no information on the led, may be an XP-G2 ....


----------



## 880arm

hatman said:


> Very interested in the Alpha but have some questions.
> 
> The pictured Alpha doesn't seem to look as cool as photos of the prototype:
> http://flashlightguide.com/2013/12/new-elzetta-alpha-planned-2014/
> 
> As to the tint, I can't find any description of it.
> 
> Also, the specs show a maximum time of 51 minutes run time -- that doesn't seem like much these days.
> 
> Finally, no mention of the clip Elzetta has talked about.



I think the design pretty much looks the same, but the early photo has a much higher contrast highlighting the knurling and machining. On the other hand, the photos on their website are usually a little overexposed which obscures those details a little bit. Of course the proto was sporting the pocket clip as well.

I sent an e-mail about the clip and just received a response that it will be available soon. Then I checked the site and they now have added the "Elzetta Speed Clip" for $15. When Elzetta says soon they really mean it! The design of the clip looks a little different than what is shown in the prototype photos but it's hard to tell much from the one photo.


----------



## pjandyho

I am more interested to know what the tint is going to be like. I prefer neutral but if it is going to be cool white I hope it won't be bluish or greenish.


----------



## hatman

hatman said:


> Very interested in the Alpha but have some questions.
> 
> The pictured Alpha doesn't seem to look as cool as photos of the prototype:
> http://flashlightguide.com/2013/12/new-elzetta-alpha-planned-2014/
> 
> As to the tint, I can't find any description of it.
> 
> Also, the specs show a maximum time of 51 minutes run time -- that doesn't seem like much these days.
> 
> Finally, no mention of the clip Elzetta has talked about.



Elzetta says the 51 minutes is rated at 10 percent output -- meaning that, at 51 minutes, your light would be putting out 31.5 lumens.

I'm waiting to hear about the tint.

As for the photo, Elzetta says the production model does look like that cool proto!

And they say the clip has arrived.


----------



## hatman

Elzeeta's answers to some of my questions:

"To answer some of the questions you had earlier;

"A LiFePO4 RCR123A rechargeable battery can be used in the Alpha for non-critical applications. In this configuration the Alpha will produce 380 lumens (runtime is reduced drastically).

"In regards to the emitter that’s used, unfortunately, we do not release design specs on our LED emitters.

"The tint for the Alpha is regarded as rather neutral."

Elzeeta doesn't explain what it considers a "neutral" tint. It won't even say which emitter the Alpha has. My sense is that Elzeeta isn't used to answering these kinds of questions from consumers. I'm hoping that will change as more people become familiar with the brand and ask more questions. The company should include this information in the specs.

I ordered an Alpha 113 -- a hi-low tailcap switch, standard bezel, and standard lens. I added two items: a floody lens and the just-introduced clip.

I'm eager to see how the 315-lumen Alpha compares with my new HDS neutral clicky at 170 lumens and the 300-lumen LensLight Mini that I recently lost when its Delrin clip fell off. I'm also eager to compare it with my ZebraLight SC 52W, a real champ of a pocket-size EDC light with a glorious neutral tint.


----------



## 880arm

A little bit of an update. For those who are thinking of using the high/low tailcap, be advised that the Alpha uses a different version than what's used with the Bravo and Charlie. It functions in the same way but uses a different resistor to achieve the specified output. When I placed my order I assumed I could use one of my existing high/low switches with the Alpha 

Apparently the Alpha-specific tailcaps will be engraved as such to avoid mix-ups.

I was also going to mention something about LFP123 support for *non-critical* applications but looks like hatman types a little bit faster than me :twothumbs


----------



## 46Alpha

880arm said:


> Any particular reason why? Not arguing here, just interested in the perspective.



The first Elzetta offering was nice, but simply another Malkoff/P60 host joining the 6P, MD2, and others. For the price they were asking, I passed, till I was able to pick one up used. The new AVS were intriguing, but I wasn't too impressed with the beam shots and they're a bit large for EDC. 

The previous Elzetta I owned I sold. I'm hopeful the Alpha will offer a better tint in a smaller, more EDC friendly package. 

JMHO, YMMV.

I'm on the fence about this. Buy now to satisfy my need or wait on some end user reviews. I keep opening the Elzetta site and looking.  The $165 price I've configured is very close to the E1DL that I've been very happy with. I'm trying to justify the cost. Maybe wait to see real world beam shots and run time.


----------



## Grizzman

I was planning to wait for customer feedback before ordering an Alpha, but that simply didn't work out. I just ordered an A313. 

It's too bad that the Alpha uses a different high/low tailcap than the Bravo/Charlie series. Luckily, I went the high/low route with the order. 

I was expecting the low output spec to be closer to 15-30 lumens, vs the stated 7. I presume a Bravo tailcap would deliver less than 7, since it's meant to be used with 6-9 volts.

I look forward to receiving it in a few days and comparing it to my HDS cool white 200 clicky. If the Alpha's tint matches that of their AVS heads, I'll be very happy.


----------



## 880arm

46Alpha said:


> The first Elzetta offering was nice . . .



I hear you, I felt exactly the same way. The AVS heads were what got me interested and I have no regrets. They are a little bit larger than lights like the 6P but I carry them all the same.

I'm really curious what the Alphas will be like. If the specifications on the website are a good indication they will be a bit floodier than was expecting so we will see how that turns out!


----------



## Ishango

Elzetta Alpha model A113 ordered :twothumbs


----------



## DAN92

hatman said:


> Elzeeta's answers to some of my questions:
> 
> "In regards to the emitter that’s used, unfortunately, we do not release design specs on our LED emitters.
> 
> "The tint for the Alpha is regarded as rather neutral."
> 
> Elzeeta doesn't explain what it considers a "neutral" tint. It won't even say which emitter the Alpha has. My sense is that Elzeeta isn't used to answering these kinds of questions from consumers. I'm hoping that will change as more people become familiar with the brand and ask more questions. The company should include this information in the specs.


So I have the answer to my question.



880arm said:


> A little bit of an update. For those who are thinking of using the high/low tailcap, be advised that the Alpha uses a different version than what's used with the Bravo and Charlie. It functions in the same way but uses a different resistor to achieve the specified output. When I placed my order I assumed I could use one of my existing high/low switches with the Alpha
> 
> Apparently the Alpha-specific tailcaps will be engraved as such to avoid mix-ups.


Thank's for the info'.


----------



## blackbalsam

Alpha is on the way


----------



## vernSL

My Alpha should be here Saturday. Pretty excited as it will be my first Elzetta.


----------



## 46Alpha

Pics of the pocket clip are up. Not exactly what I would call a "well integrated design" but I guess if it works....

:duh2:


----------



## thedoc007

46Alpha said:


> Not exactly what I would call a "well integrated design" but I guess if it works....



Um, yeah. That is pretty awful. Not only aesthetically, but also from a practical viewpoint. Seems like it would be FAR less comfortable to hold with that on. To me, wasn't a big deal for the two and three cell lights. Large enough that I like to use a holster. But for a single cell, pocketable light, that is pretty darn bad.


----------



## parnass

46Alpha said:


> Pics of the pocket clip are up. Not exactly what I would call a "well integrated design" but I guess if it works....



Screams "_kludge_." The 1-cell clip setup doesn't look pocket or hand friendly at all.


----------



## DAN92

the ring of the pocket clip is annoying, I will use a pocket clip "Raven" or "Fenix​​".


----------



## leon2245

Reminds me of a toddler wearing one of those oversized innertube floaties.


----------



## Grizzman

I'm glad I didn't order a clip. I'll try my other clips with 1" rings to see which one works the best.


----------



## 46Alpha

DAN92 said:


> the ring of the pocket clip is annoying, I will use a pocket clip "Raven" or "Fenix​​".



The RCS clip is nice, and I have a spare one sitting in the parts box. Can anyone confirm that it'll work with the Hi/Low tail cap?


----------



## 880arm

46Alpha said:


> The RCS clip is nice, and I have a spare one sitting in the parts box. Can anyone confirm that it'll work with the Hi/Low tail cap?



Works fine with the Bravo and Charlie. Haven't tried it with the Alpha yet.


----------



## calflash

Those aren't clips on the bravo and charlie. They don't contact the flashlight body. They are a new cutting edge idea: flashlight pocket hooks.


----------



## vernSL

The clip doesn't look too bad to me. But I won't pass judgement until I get it. My light will be here in about an hour, but the clip isn't being delivered until Monday.


----------



## 46Alpha

calflash said:


> Those aren't clips on the bravo and charlie. They don't contact the flashlight body. They are a new cutting edge idea: flashlight pocket hooks.



LOL

Elzetta says: " The stainless steel wire can be reshaped, if desired, for a custom fit for specific applications."

So I guess it's about as sturdy as the SF E series clips


----------



## vernSL

Well my Alpha switch has some bad QA issues and the light itself is warm and floody. There is no hot spot but it doesn't seem as bright as my SF EB1 even with the lumen increase.


----------



## tobrien

my first thought about the clips: that's probably the same thing (or similar) that we'll see as an adaptation for HDS Rotary clips


----------



## hatman

vernSL said:


> Well my Alpha switch has some bad QA issues and the light itself is warm and floody. There is no hot spot but it doesn't seem as bright as my SF EB1 even with the lumen increase.



What kind of QA issues, please?


----------



## kyhunter1

Maybe one of the custom makers like Jason at Darksucks can work up a better clip for the alpha?


----------



## RI Chevy

vernSL said:


> Well my Alpha switch has some bad QA issues and the light itself is warm and floody. There is no hot spot but it doesn't seem as bright as my SF EB1 even with the lumen increase.





hatman said:


> What kind of QA issues, please?



What model did you get? Did you get the flood version?


----------



## calflash

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Touchdown, I like!!!



Re: clips - PSM said this was a moddoo clip but I think that means dark sucks clips for hds would work too. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


----------



## Kamerat

It only works if you tighten the switch all the way down to the body i.e. it does not work with rotary/high low/high strobe switch etc.


----------



## vernSL

hatman said:


> What kind of QA issues, please?



The rubber switch on the back was not installed correctly. The switch is really crooked, and there is a huge gap on one side of the rubber switch. It has me worried about waterproofing and aesthetically it looks bad.

They wanted me to pay to send it back to them so they could repair it and send it back. I just told them to refund me and I'd just order another one. If this new one isn't perfect, I'll be returning it for good. I was surprised they were requiring me to pay to send back a light that just was released and already had an issue with it.



RI Chevy said:


> What model did you get? Did you get the flood version?



I got the standard version, not the flood.


----------



## RI Chevy

Thank you. Can you post any photos of the QA issues that you are describing please? The return procedure is standard for Elzetta. They really do not diagnose over the phone.


----------



## PAPAJOHN

What about a belt sheath for the little Alpha ?


----------



## vernSL

Not sure if you'll be able to tell from those.


----------



## RI Chevy

Thanks for the photos. Maybe the tail cap boot just didn't seat properly, or pushed in from shipping or something?


----------



## vernSL

I tried adjusting it, but its not budging. And the packaging wouldn't have allowed it to be shifted during shipping. Its not a huge deal but when I'm spending $150 I expect better.


----------



## 880arm

vernSL said:


> I tried adjusting it, but its not budging. And the packaging wouldn't have allowed it to be shifted during shipping. Its not a huge deal but when I'm spending $150 I expect better.



You're right, it shouldn't be that way, but these things do happen. I was going to suggest trying to "exercise" the switch and see if you could get it to move over the way you wanted, however it sounds like you have already tried that.

After reading the posts by you and RI Chevy I decided to try taking one of mine apart. It was so easy, even I could do it.






As you can see the flange around the switch boot is quite a bit wider than the hole in the tailcap. Even with yours slightly off-center, I suspect there is still plenty pinched between the tailcap and the inner part of the switch. However, if you have a pair of needle-nosed or snap-ring pliers, you can probably fix it for good in about 1 minute.

If you look inside your tailcap, you will see two holes directly across from each other (they are at top and bottom dead center on the one in my photo). Just stick your pliers into the two holes and twist the switch mechanism counter-clockwise to begin threading it out of the tailcap. With any luck, you may just have to loosen the switch a little bit before you can work the boot back into its proper place. Worst case, you will have to thread the switch all the way out so you can push the boot with your finger from the inside (that might take 2 minutes).

Once everything is straight, just reverse the process and you should be good to go.


----------



## RI Chevy

Neat. I tried to take apart the twisty that I had an issue with, to no avail. Insides just kept on spinning around endlessly. I did not realize the high/lows were completely threaded in like that. Thanks for doing that for us.


----------



## 880arm

Don't think I have seen anyone mention this yet . . . the new Alpha does use the XP-G2 . . .




It basically goes together (and comes apart) like the AVS heads, although it doesn't come apart as easily. Where the AVS optic will just fall out (after the bezel ring is removed) the Alpha optic took some persuasion. It actually snaps into its optic holder so I ended up taking the whole thing out. I was probably doing something wrong :shrug:







RI Chevy said:


> Neat. I tried to take apart the twisty that I had an issue with, to no avail. Insides just kept on spinning around endlessly. I did not realize the high/lows were completely threaded in like that. Thanks for doing that for us.



No problem. Just tried it with the twisty and it works the same way. The deal with it is that you have to line up the holes in the brass ring with an identical set of holes in the switch body behind it. Then you stick the pliers into the switch body and thread everything out. The switch itself is as simple as I thought, there is nothing "hidden" other than a spring and a plunger. Not to get too far off track but I suspect the problem you were having is related to how the switch was interacting with your bored bodies (as discussed in the other thread).


----------



## vernSL

Awesome, tried your directions and fixed the boot. How does your light look? And what are you general impressions of the light? Is yours very warm without a hotspot as well? Although it looks like you got the flood version.


----------



## RI Chevy

880arm said:


> No problem. Just tried it with the twisty and it works the same way. The deal with it is that you have to line up the holes in the brass ring with an identical set of holes in the switch body behind it. Then you stick the pliers into the switch body and thread everything out. The switch itself is as simple as I thought, there is nothing "hidden" other than a spring and a plunger. Not to get too far off track but I suspect the problem you were having is related to how the switch was interacting with your bored bodies (as discussed in the other thread).



Thank you. I definitely know that I did not line up the holes as you described. I think you are exactly correct with the bored body. 



vernSL said:


> Awesome, tried your directions and fixed the boot. How does your light look? And what are you general impressions of the light? Is yours very warm without a hotspot as well? Although it looks like you got the flood version.



Good to hear that you got the issue fixed. :thumbsup:


----------



## 880arm

vernSL said:


> Awesome, tried your directions and fixed the boot. How does your light look? And what are you general impressions of the light? Is yours very warm without a hotspot as well? Although it looks like you got the flood version.



Glad it worked :twothumbs

I have both versions, standard and flood. They do have a warm tint. I'm not much of an expert on color rendering but it seems good to me.

As you pointed out, the standard version does not have much of a hotspot, it has more of a hot area with a broad tapering spill. The beam profile has a lot in common with the AVS heads, no surprise there, but since the Alpha only has half the output as the Bravo, it just doesn't look the same. When compared to lights with fairly intense center hotspots, like the EB1 or E1D, the Alpha is a little underwhelming but that is mostly due to the beam profile. I took some beamshot photos last night but didn't set my camera up correctly and failed to capture very much of the spill beam which is where the Alpha has the advantage over those other lights.

Runtime is on spec with about 40-45 minutes of regulated output before beginning to nosedive. As advertised, LFP123 cells give a big boost and provide about 20 minutes of runtime.

The Alpha won't compete directly against the small SureFire lights that use TIR lenses. Instead, it should be a good option for those who think those lights don't have enough flood.


----------



## DAN92

DAN92 said:


> At the moment, no information on the led, may be an XP-G2 ....





880arm said:


> Don't think I have seen anyone mention this yet . . . the new Alpha does use the XP-G2 . . .
> 
> http://www.flashlightguide.com/flgpiwigo/i.php?/upload/2014/06/29/20140629170440-08e8c980-sm.jpg


it confirms what I thought.


----------



## Str8stroke

Got the Alpha in. Got High/Low switch. No clip. I feed it a fully charged 16340. Seems to run fine. Has strong output. But its daytime and kinda hard to tell. I will give it a try out tonight.
Kinda cool feature is Elzetta is laser engraved in the reflector. Check out the grill.


----------



## DAN92

I read that Elzetta’s AVS technology allows the Alpha to expand output to 380 lumens when powered by a RCR123A rechargeable battery which may be used for non-critical applications. (Source: Elzetta)


----------



## vernSL

Got my spare crenelated bezel and clip for my Alpha today. The clip is a complete joke imo. Won't be using that. Not sure why they couldn't have come up with a better design than this. They should have made the clip two pieces like a scope mount and have it mount in one of the valleys on the body. Could use a torx or hex to bolt it on and not have to worry about it. This ring on the clip is plastic, and doesn't seem very solid at all. \

The crenelated bezel is as nice as the low profile one. Seems like it might be a bit too sharp for my pocket if I'm not using a clip though.

I'm still not 100% sold on the light though. I want to love it, but comparing it to my much cheaper options, the light itself isn't impressing me at all. The quality of the construction is amazing though. And the finish they put on the light is remarkable. But the color of the light and the lack of any real focused beam is turning me off. I'm interested in seeing some pictures of the beam from those of you who have one to see if you guys are getting similar results. And maybe those who are much more knowledgeable about lights can give me their opinion on it.


----------



## Grizzman

DAN92 said:


> I read that Elzetta’s AVS technology allows the Alpha to expand output to 380 lumens when powered by a RCR123A rechargeable battery which may be used for non-critical applications. (Source: Elzetta)



The LiFePO4 cell has a voltage output that is nominally 3 volts, while a Li-Ion 16340 (aka RCR123) has a nominal voltage of 3.7, with a peak of 4.2. I do not perceive their statement to mean that Li-Ion RCR123s are approved for use in the Alpha.


----------



## Grizzman

vernSL said:


> I'm still not 100% sold on the light though. I want to love it, but comparing it to my much cheaper options, the light itself isn't impressing me at all. The quality of the construction is amazing though. And the finish they put on the light is remarkable. But the color of the light and the lack of any real focused beam is turning me off. I'm interested in seeing some pictures of the beam from those of you who have one to see if you guys are getting similar results. And maybe those who are much more knowledgeable about lights can give me their opinion on it.



It sounds like the only qualities of the Alpha that don't knock your socks off are related to the photons it emits. The tint of the AVS head can hardly be called warm, so you must solidly exist in the cool-only camp. A floody 315 lumens will never seem as impressive as one with the same output and a tight, intense hotspot. 

I've got a few Surefires with TIR optics, and really wish the older 200 lumen versions had as much spill (if not more) than the newer 500 lumen version. It seems like the Alpha is right up my alley, and may kick an HDS out of my inventory.

880Arm will probably have a full review posted within a few days, including beam shots and his awesome beam shot comparison app.


----------



## DAN92

Grizzman said:


> The LiFePO4 cell has a voltage output that is nominally 3 volts, while a Li-Ion 16340 (aka RCR123) has a nominal voltage of 3.7, with a peak of 4.2. I do not perceive their statement to mean that Li-Ion RCR123s are approved for use in the Alpha.


Yes, it's a cell "LiFePO4".

I quote: "New Elzetta Alpha Flashlights are the smallest Flashlights we have ever produced but their performance is huge!Powered by a single CR123A battery, Elzetta Alphas produce 315 lumens (Elzetta’s patent-pending AVS Technology expands output to 380 lumens when the Alpha is powered by a LiFePO4 RCR123A rechargeable battery which may be used for non-critical applications.)" (Source:Elzetta).


----------



## 880arm

vernSL said:


> . . . The clip is a complete joke imo. Won't be using that. Not sure why they couldn't have come up with a better design than this. They should have made the clip two pieces like a scope mount and have it mount in one of the valleys on the body. Could use a torx or hex to bolt it on and not have to worry about it. This ring on the clip is plastic, and doesn't seem very solid at all.



I'm not sure what to think about the clip yet. Based on the prototype photos that were released I was expecting something different, more in line with what you described. I've got it on a Bravo for now and I'm going to use it for a few days before I draw too many conclusions.



vernSL said:


> I'm still not 100% sold on the light though. I want to love it, but comparing it to my much cheaper options, the light itself isn't impressing me at all. The quality of the construction is amazing though. And the finish they put on the light is remarkable. But the color of the light and the lack of any real focused beam is turning me off. I'm interested in seeing some pictures of the beam from those of you who have one to see if you guys are getting similar results . . .



I mentioned earlier that I blew it with my beamshot photos but I will share a few. These aren't completely representative of what the lights look like in real life as I failed to capture the widest part of the spill beam. The four shots are of both the flood and standard versions using CR123 and LFP123 batteries. (click images for larger version)



 




 

​
The standard version of the Alpha does have a hot spot but it's not sharply defined like most reflector based lights. Most people would probably call it a "floody" light but that's a relative term. As you can see, it's quite a "thrower" when compared to the flood version. The rechargeable cells give quite a boost in output which, in my opinion, seems like more than the ~20% gain mentioned by Elzetta.




Grizzman said:


> . . . The tint of the AVS head can hardly be called warm . . .



You're right. I'm guilty of thinking of the AVS heads as being warm since they are warmer (closer to neutral) than most of the cool white lights I'm regularly comparing them to. Having said that, the Alphas are warmer than three of my AVS heads (all purchased soon after they were released). In something of a twist, my "Stealth" Limited Edition Bravo is warmer (by a lot) than any of the others.

I don't trust myself at all when judging beam tint but I would say the Alpha is closest to my 4750K TorchLAB triple among the lights I have compared it against. It's hard for me to tell much more than that because I don't have any neutral lights with the same output and beam pattern as the Alpha. I guess that makes it a neutral but I'm probably not the guy to listen to in a discussion of beam tint :shrug:



Grizzman said:


> A floody 315 lumens will never seem as impressive as one with the same output and a tight, intense hotspot.
> 
> I've got a few Surefires with TIR optics, and really wish the older 200 lumen versions had as much spill (if not more) than the newer 500 lumen version. It seems like the Alpha is right up my alley, and may kick an HDS out of my inventory.



That's going to be the rub with this light. With a peak beam intensity of 1900cd, you know it's not going to be much of a thrower but I believe a lot of people will be disappointed when they first use it, expecting more more reach and a tighter hot spot. By way of comparison, it has roughly the same output as the SureFire E1D LED Defender but the Alpha's beam is about 25-30% wider. It certainly has more spill although it gets very faint as it tapers toward the edges.



Grizzman said:


> 880Arm will probably have a full review posted within a few days, including beam shots and his awesome beam shot comparison app.



Glad you like the comparisons. I was hoping to have something finished up in the next day or two but that will have to wait for this weekend now that I have to try the beamshots again. I was in no condition Saturday night to be taking photos


----------



## Str8stroke

Follow are some quick cellphone pics of the Alpha on High running a RCR123 3.0 volt full charged. The second picture is the Alpha vs Surefire ED1 running a primary cell. Both lights are on high. Footnote: The background is a cream wall about 6 feet away. That's all I have available at the current moment. But they should give you a idea. 



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[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice photos. The SF E1D looks much brighter. Is the Alpha the regular or flood lens? 
The RCR123 (Li Ion) at full charge should be around 4.2v, not 3v, unless it is a Lifepo (lithium-phosphate) or LFP123A cell.


----------



## Str8stroke

Oh thanks for the questions, Regular lens NOT a flood. The battery is a Soshine 650mAh Li-ion 3.0 volt rechargeable. It was around 3.7 when I put it in. Thanks.
I have a bunch of them. Following is a link to more info on them.

http://www.dx.com/p/soshine-650ma-3...13810?tc=USD&gclid=CMvK4anIpL8CFXMR7AodAR8Avw


----------



## GeoBruin

I too am confuse by the batteries. The package does day RCR123 but it also says 3.0 v. I'm guessing they're LiCoO2 since they're rechargeable and maybe soshine just means they're replacements for 3v CR123 cells. 

In any case, that picture next to that E1DL really helps me with visualizing the size and the tint definitely looks right up my alley. I may have to pull the trigger. I would probably prefer it a bit throwier as well but realistically I always end up appreciating my EDC being floody. I tried to carry an E1B and it was just a laser. The XM-L in my V11R-vn was just about right. 

I would REALLY like to see a beam comparison with a Malkoff MDC. I love that beam distribution. The MDC would be my ideal EDC if it were available in a High/Low option like the MD2 with the high/low ring and this seems like about the closest I'm going to get.


----------



## Str8stroke

Yes, the battery is a Li-ion. They are safe to run in the Surefire lights that are 3 volt rated. They won't cause the light to blink or act crazy. They seem to make both a 3.0 volt and 3.7 RCR123. Very confusing for me indeed. lol I have about 8 of these and love them! I have been using them for months with no problems. I assumed everyone here would have already encountered these. But if not, order some and try them out. I was impressed with their performance. They charge up to 3.6 or 3.7 volts with a I4 charger.


----------



## hatman

The good news: Elzetta's shipping was fast.

And it's made in the USA.

That's pretty much it for what I liked.

The bad news: The Alpha is portly compared to ZebraLight SC 52 series, which are cheaper and brighter.

With a primary battery, the light from the Alpha just doesn't seem bright enough for my taste.
It is brighter with an AW rechargeable, but nowhere near as bright as the ZL 52W or the LensLight Mini, another portly single-cell light.

I bought both the regular and "flood" lens. After trying the regular, I can't imagine using the flood and getting even less throw.

The tint doesn't seem neutral to me.

I got the standard bezel and the hi-low tailcap. The clicky tailcap is mushy.

The clip, as others note, is not ready for prime time. Without a clip, I'd never carry the Alpha.

Is it well-made? Except for the clicky and the clip, I guess so. But so are the HDS, LensLight Mini and ZebraLight 52w, any of which I'd rather have.

At the price, I expected more. Sorry, I really wanted to like this light.


----------



## Str8stroke

Oh, I forgot to show the Alpha vs E1D "tail stand" photo op!  I won't even get into the clip or lack there of discussion! lol



[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## Grizzman

Once the Alpha arrives, I can take indoor beamshots of it compared to a multi-mode Neutral MDC and more appropriately (to a degree) an E2/Scout M600 head. If I had an E1/Scout M300, I'd use that instead. I can also compare it to an HDS Clicky 200 programmed for tactical use (B-200 lumens, A-strobe, C-80 lumens, D-15 lumens, momentary enabled). I doubt I photograph it, but I'm also interested to see how it compares to a Malkoff M31 219B in a VME head on a Malkoff MDC CR123 body.


I've got a Zebralight SC52W, but won't be comparing them because they aren't in the same "use class". Yes, the ZL is smaller in diameter, but I expect an AA light to be smaller in diameter than a CR123 light. Does that mean that AA lights are better? Nope....just thinner.


While it would be nice for Elzettas to tailstand, they aren't intended to be used as ordinary EDC lights. I'd rather have a light compatible with all manipulation techniques, like Rogers/Surefire, than one that will tailstand to illuminate a room.


----------



## 880arm

GeoBruin said:


> I too am confuse by the batteries. The package does day RCR123 but it also says 3.0 v. I'm guessing they're LiCoO2 since they're rechargeable and maybe soshine just means they're replacements for 3v CR123 cells.
> 
> In any case, that picture next to that E1DL really helps me with visualizing the size and the tint definitely looks right up my alley. I may have to pull the trigger. I would probably prefer it a bit throwier as well but realistically I always end up appreciating my EDC being floody. I tried to carry an E1B and it was just a laser. The XM-L in my V11R-vn was just about right.
> 
> I would REALLY like to see a beam comparison with a Malkoff MDC. I love that beam distribution. The MDC would be my ideal EDC if it were available in a High/Low option like the MD2 with the high/low ring and this seems like about the closest I'm going to get.



Sometime last week Dave (from Elzetta) said the Alpha would work with LiFePO4 (3.2V nominal, 3.6 or 3.7V fully charged) batteries and give a performance boost to 380 lumens. I asked in an e-mail today about the use of LiCo batteries (3.7V nominal, 4.2V fully charged) and he replied "the Alpha will take whatever you feed it" however, he is always quick to remind that only USA-made 123A primaries meet their standards for critical duty. I haven't tried it yet with a 16340 but it appears other in this thread have.

Str8Stroke's beamshot photos look accurate to me with regard to tint and the comparative hot spots from the Alpha and E1D.

I don't have a comparison against the standard MDC but I did try it with the MDC SHO. The MDC definitely has a more pronounced hotspot and more intense spill but it has a sharp edge to the beam where the Alpha keeps on tapering into a much broader spill beam. In the photos below, the MDC spill beam is pretty well represented due to its sharp cut-off. The Alpha beam is under-represented since I'm a lousy photographer.


----------



## Gadgetman7

What is the runtime on primaries on high?


----------



## 880arm

Gadgetman7 said:


> What is the runtime on primaries on high?



It's rated at 51 minutes until output drops to 10%. In my testing it was closer to 56-57 minutes with about 40 or 45 minutes of regulated runtime.


----------



## DAN92

880arm said:


> Sometime last week Dave (from Elzetta) said the Alpha would work with LiFePO4 (3.2V nominal, 3.6 or 3.7V fully charged) batteries and give a performance boost to 380 lumens. I asked in an e-mail today about the use of LiCo batteries (3.7V nominal, 4.2V fully charged) and he replied "the Alpha will take whatever you feed it" however, he is always quick to remind that only USA-made 123A primaries meet their standards for critical duty. I haven't tried it yet with a 16340 but it appears other in this thread have.


I'll try with a RCR123/16340 Li-ion 3.7V.


----------



## yoyoman

GeoBruin said:


> I would REALLY like to see a beam comparison with a Malkoff MDC. I love that beam distribution. The MDC would be my ideal EDC if it were available in a High/Low option like the MD2 with the high/low ring and this seems like about the closest I'm going to get.



What about a Malkoff head with the hi/lo ring on an MD1 body?


----------



## DAN92

I asked the question by email to Elzetta for the use of RCR123, I quote: _"The Alpha will work with other RCR123 batteries but only LiFEPO4 chemistry is known to boost output to 380 lumens.

Only USA-Made CR123A batteries should be used for critical applications."_


----------



## hatman

DAN92 said:


> I asked the question by email to Elzetta for the use of RCR123, I quote: _"The Alpha will work with other RCR123 batteries but only LiFEPO4 chemistry is known to boost output to 380 lumens.
> 
> Only USA-Made CR123A batteries should be used for critical applications."_



Are there any USA-made CR123A batteries?


----------



## GeoBruin

hatman said:


> Are there any USA-made CR123A batteries?



Surefire, Duracell, Energizer, Sanyo, Battery Station... 

They're apparently all based on the same cell made in Panasonic's plant in Georgia.


----------



## GeoBruin

yoyoman said:


> What about a Malkoff head with the hi/lo ring on an MD1 body?



I have one. It's not bad but the body is so short that there's hardly any purchase to actuate the switch. I always end up just unscrewing the tail cap accidentally. 

Also, like the MDC, I don't believe the Alpha uses a full size Malkoff drop in which saves quite a bit of weight. My MD1 is significantly heavier than the MDC. The MD1 feels imbalanced and front heavy.


----------



## yoyoman

The ring provides the grip you want


----------



## leon2245

DAN92 said:


> I asked the question by email to Elzetta for the use of RCR123, I quote: _"The Alpha will work with other RCR123 batteries but *only LiFEPO4 chemistry is known to boost output to 380 lumens.
> *
> Only USA-Made CR123A batteries should be used for critical applications."_



Wonder why that is. 

And I fear to ask the runtime on those.


----------



## 880arm

leon2245 said:


> Wonder why that is.
> 
> And I fear to ask the runtime on those.



Perhaps that's the only type they tested with. Runtime is a little over 20 minutes using a K2 Energy cell.


----------



## hatman

This is really a nice-looking light and before I return it, I've been trying to figure out why I should keep a $130, somewhat chubby light that's not terribly bright, lacks a usable clip and has a short runtime.


----------



## RI Chevy

Has anyone tried to lego the Alpha yet and use a Malkoff M31 variant with an original bezel? Just curious.


----------



## 880arm

RI Chevy said:


> Has anyone tried to lego the Alpha yet and use a Malkoff M31 variant with an original bezel? Just curious.



The tailcap is the only thing that can be LEGO'd with the other Elzetta lights. The head and body are a one-piece design.


----------



## DAN92

I received my Alpha today, I am a little disappointed by the beam which is "diffuse", by moment, I stay on the mode " Low ", I am obliged to put out the lamp for find the mode " High ", I've lubricated the thread with Nyogel 760G, but the problem persists.

Has anyone the same problem?


----------



## 46Alpha

880arm said:


> The tailcap is the only thing that can be LEGO'd with the other Elzetta lights. The head and body are a one-piece design.



I thought the Alpha used a different tail cap?


----------



## pjandyho

46Alpha said:


> I thought the Alpha used a different tail cap?


The only tail cap that could not be lego'd would be the Hi/Lo tail cap. The rest of the tail cap still works on the Alpha.


----------



## 46Alpha

pjandyho said:


> The only tail cap that could not be lego'd would be the Hi/Lo tail cap. The rest of the tail cap still works on the Alpha.



Ah, got it thanks!


----------



## Grizzman

DAN92 said:


> I stay on the mode " Low ", I am obliged to put out the lamp for find the mode " High ", I've lubricated the thread with Nyogel 760G, but the problem persists.
> 
> Has anyone the same problem?



I'm not sure what problem you are experiencing. My Alpha should arrive within the next hour.


----------



## Grizzman

The mail arrived a little early today. 

Here are some quick comments regarding my Alpha.

As expected, it is a very well machined and finished light, fully the equal of my Bravo and Charlie units.

The tint is a lot warmer than I was expecting. It is nearly identical to that of my warm Malkoff M60WF and M60 MCE drop-ins.

The beam pattern definitely isn't the same as the AVS head, with both the center spot and next outer area being significantly larger than the AVS. The outer edges of these two regions are less defined than they are in the AVS head. It is almost noon, so I won't be able to fully scrutinize the spill until tonight.

The long tailcap and short body is going to make clip selection difficult for most. My shortest clip is a Moddoolar clip for HDS/Surefire lights. The end of the clip stops before it reaches the head where it becomes significantly wider. The clip rests against the last slightly larger diameter body section by the head. I clipped it briefly into my front pocket of my cargo shorts, and it seemed to work out well enough. The clip isn't held tightly in place when the tailcap is tight (with a thin Prometheus clip o-ring installed), but it doesn't move around excessively. Naturally, the clip is rather loose with the tailcap loose, but I don't expect to clip it into a pocket with low mode activated very often at all. After lunch. I'll put a Prometheus Surefire clip on it.

I screwed the high/low tailcap from a Bravo onto the Alpha and received moonlight-level output with low activated.


My curiosity got the better of me, and I put a Prometheus clip onto it. The clip touches the light about a mlilimeter below the slightly beveled section on the head (this is hard to describe, so I'll likely take some quick photos later this afternoon.


----------



## leon2245

880arm said:


> Perhaps that's the only type they tested with. Runtime is a little over 20 minutes using a K2 Energy cell.



Sorry reread & am only just noticing you already posted that.



880arm said:


> The tailcap is the only thing that can be LEGO'd with the other Elzetta lights. The head and body are a one-piece design.



If standard c surefire clickies & twisties are compatible, anyone know if you have to get it with a tailcap, or could one order leaving that drop down menu unselected in the configurator altogether?


----------



## Grizzman

leon2245 said:


> If standard c surefire clickies & twisties are compatible, anyone know if you have to get it with a tailcap, or could one order leaving that drop down menu unselected in the configurator altogether?



While a McClickied Z41 does screw onto the Alpha, it doesn't go on far enough for the light to operate.


----------



## DAN92

Grizzman said:


> The mail arrived a little early today.


Very good.

I'll test my alpha tonight.


----------



## Swedpat

The Alpha is very attractive. But I would like to see some runtime graph before I get one...


----------



## Grizzman

Here are a few photos of an Alpha wearing a couple different clips.

Prometheus Surefire 6P clip















Moddoolar HDS/Surefire clip


----------



## DAN92

grizzman,

Perfect.:thumbsup:

Here are beamshots on a white wall (This test is in addition to those made ​​by other members).

Surefire E1D Led Defender (to the left) - Elzetta Alpha (to the right).

High.






Low.






1 meter.

E1D, high.






Alpha, High.


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice photos!


----------



## Grizzman

I just performed ceiling bounce tests in my 1/2 bath with the Alpha fed from a new Surefire primary, then by an AW RCR123 that measured 4.171 volts resting.

CR123 delivered 56 lux

RCR123 delivered 110 lux

While not surprised that the 4.1+ volts of the Li-Ion gave more output, I am surprised at the amount of the increase.

For comparison, I just put a 325 lumen Malkoff E2/M600 Scout head onto an E2E body (fed by two partially used CR123s) and got 96 lux.


----------



## BIG45-70

Can anyone confirm a z41 twisty works with the alpha?


----------



## RI Chevy

Grizzman said:


> I just performed ceiling bounce tests in my 1/2 bath with the Alpha fed from a new Surefire primary, then by an AW RCR123 that measured 4.171 volts resting.
> 
> CR123 delivered 56 lux
> 
> RCR123 delivered 110 lux
> 
> While not surprised that the 4.1+ volts of the Li-Ion gave more output, I am surprised at the amount of the increase.
> 
> For comparison, I just put a 325 lumen Malkoff E2/M600 Scout head onto an E2E body (fed by two partially used CR123s) and got 96 lux.



Wow. Very interesting results! :thumbsup:


----------



## GeoBruin

Dan, were those shots done with a primary or lithium ion?


----------



## Grizzman

I just took a couple tailcap amperage readings from the Alpha.

A new Battery Station CR123 gave a tailcap reading of a little over 1.2 amps. Substituting an AW IMR 16340 gave a reading of a little less than 1.4 amps.

Anyone that feels a Malkoff M31 219B drop-in delivers adequate throw and spill should be very satisfied with an Alpha. They delivered comparable lux readings at arosss the bedroom distances, with the Alpha fed by a primary. A Li-Ion in the Alpha delivered lux in excess of that created by a Malkoff M61N (fed by an 18650).


----------



## leon2245

BIG45-70 said:


> Can anyone confirm a z41 twisty works with the alpha?



Grizzman confirmed that it screws on but not far enough to operate. Especially given reports of the stock switch, that would have been nice!


----------



## DAN92

GeoBruin said:


> Dan, were those shots done with a primary or lithium ion?


Primary.


----------



## GeoBruin

This is what I was looking for. At least as much throw as an M61n. That I can live with. Especially if its a nice tint.

Thanks Grizz.



Grizzman said:


> I just took a couple tailcap amperage readings from the Alpha.
> 
> A new Battery Station CR123 gave a tailcap reading of a little over 1.2 amps. Substituting an AW IMR 16340 gave a reading of a little less than 1.4 amps.
> 
> Anyone that feels a Malkoff M31 219B drop-in delivers adequate throw and spill should be very satisfied with an Alpha. They delivered comparable lux readings at arosss the bedroom distances, with the Alpha fed by a primary. A Li-Ion in the Alpha delivered lux in excess of that created by a Malkoff M61N (fed by an 18650).


----------



## RI Chevy

Grizzman said:


> I just took a couple tailcap amperage readings from the Alpha.
> 
> A new Battery Station CR123 gave a tailcap reading of a little over 1.2 amps. Substituting an AW IMR 16340 gave a reading of a little less than 1.4 amps.
> 
> Anyone that feels a Malkoff M31 219B drop-in delivers adequate throw and spill should be very satisfied with an Alpha. They delivered comparable lux readings at arosss the bedroom distances, with the Alpha fed by a primary. A Li-Ion in the Alpha delivered lux in excess of that created by a Malkoff M61N (fed by an 18650).





GeoBruin said:


> This is what I was looking for. At least as much throw as an M61n. That I can live with. Especially if its a nice tint.
> 
> Thanks Grizz.



X2! Thank you for doing this for all of us! :thumbsup:


----------



## SMT

46Alpha said:


> The RCS clip is nice, and I have a spare one sitting in the parts box. Can anyone confirm that it'll work with the Hi/Low tail cap?



Sorry if this was already answered but I can confirm that the RCS pocket clip works on on an Alpha with the Hi/Low Tail cap. The clip is tight the head so you will have to bend it some to use the clip.


----------



## Grizzman

I thought about buying an RCS clip quite a few months ago, but didn't end up doing it.

That has just changed.


----------



## hatman

Wow, I thought: I have that Titanium Prometheus clip on my Surefire Fury. That could take care of one my main issues with the Alpha.

Tried the Prometheus. Looks great (of course!) But so much of the Alpha's tail sticks past the clip that the weight makes the light partly hang out of the pocket on my running pants. Your pants may differ.

I've already lost a LensLight Mini due to its clip; don't want to lose another light, no matter how good the clip looks.

There's one other issue that's turned out to be a deal breaker: Run time.

I tried a couple of AW rcr123s. And while the Alpha does run brighter with the rechargeable, it also runs shorter. I didn't time it, but three or four short walks with an injured dog, limited to the front yard, were enough to get the light blinking. I can't think of any other light I own with such a short run time.

On the plus side, I ended up liking the tint. Mine seems on the warm side, which I prefer.

But on balance, the Alpha isn't for me.


----------



## 880arm

Just published a review of the Alpha. It's late and I'm tired so I will just share a few points . . .

*Runtime Testing*




The Alpha was right on specification (or just over it) when powered by 1xCR123 primary battery. It ran for 56 minutes before reaching 10% and was still putting out a usable amount of light after 80 minutes of runtime when I ended the test. Rechargeable batteries really kick things up a few notches and I was very surprised at just how much output increased. Runtime is brief, as hatman mentioned, but considering the amount of output, it's not out of line at all. Truthfully, the output with one 16340 is so high it makes me wonder if it's safe for the light.

Output and beam profile have already been discussed quite a bit so I will just say that I agree with Grizz's (I think) assessment that the beam is similar to a Malkoff M61N. It could also be compared pretty closely to the E1D equipped with the F04-A diffuser. The Alpha has more reach than the diffused E1D but there are some similarities. There are a lot of ways to look at it but I believe I would describe the beam as semi-diffused when the Alpha is equipped with its standard lens. Of course, the flood lens is even more diffused and provides a very even beam.

*Beamshots*

It took me two tries to get usable beamshot photos and I still didn't capture all the spill from the Alpha. To make things even more interesting I was using a brand new camera for the second set and I didn't get my exposures set perfectly. However, the shots are better than my first set and do a decent job for comparison purposes.

Even though their beam profiles are drastically different, it only seems natural to compare the Alpha against the SureFire E1D. The following shots show the E1D, with and without the F04-A diffuser, compared against the Alpha with both standard and flood lenses.






















It's hard to capture in the photos but in actual use, the spill advantage the Alpha has over the E1D is much easier to see. Side-by-side comparisons to a few other lights can be seen in the review.

On another note, the Speed Clip is starting to grow on me a little bit. I'm still not crazy about the aesthetics of the clip but it seems sturdy enough and the large collar actually makes a nice combat ring. After a few days of use I learned to withdraw the light using my middle and index fingers under the ring which allows me to have a fully formed cigar-hold on the light as soon as it clears my pocket. After I have used the clip some more I will do a little mini-review of it.


----------



## hatman

Jim Basham's review of the Alpha -- see the link in post 1017 above -- is thorough, fair, easy to follow and well-illustrated. 

I concur with all of the findings except that involving the clip, which I did not find usable.

Congratulations, sir, and well-done!


----------



## DAN92

880arm,

Thank you for the overview of your excellent review.

in view the graph of runtime, I'm not going use rechargeable batteries.


----------



## vernSL

Very good review. The more I use my Alpha, the more I appreciate the color and beam pattern for everyday use. It doesn't have the wow factor that many newer LED lights have, especially rated at 315 lumens. But the light helps with seeing more detail and causing much less reflection and eye strain when working up close. The clip is the biggest issue for me, and hopefully a third party can come up with a better solution. When clipped in the pocket, there is too much weight towards the top of the light and it doesn't seem very secure. It wants to almost flop out of my pocket. Plus the clip is too bulky and takes up too much real estate on the body for my to comfortable hold it. A clip similar to the two way on the EB1 is ideal, and maybe we will even see Elzetta themselves come up with additional designs as well.


----------



## RI Chevy

Excellent review Jim! :thumbsup: Did you by any chance take a voltage reading of the CR123A that was used in your testing? I am just curious how low the cell got. The readings are pretty good I think. I would definitely be cautious of using the Li Ion cell due to heat alone for a continuous run.


----------



## 880arm

hatman said:


> . . . I concur with all of the findings except that involving the clip, which I did not find usable.
> 
> Congratulations, sir, and well-done!



High praise indeed, thank you sir. I'm beginning to see some of the utility of the clip and I think more favorably of it than I did originally. However, as you pointed out, it won't be for everyone.



DAN92 said:


> 880arm,
> 
> . . . . in view the graph of runtime, I'm not going use rechargeable batteries.



Thanks Dan. I'm in agreement that for true EDC purposes the CR123 is the better choice due to the more predictable run time. I am glad the Alpha at least supports the rechargeable cells as it does provide an option for "non-critical" use.



vernSL said:


> Very good review. The more I use my Alpha, the more I appreciate the color and beam pattern for everyday use. It doesn't have the wow factor that many newer LED lights have, especially rated at 315 lumens. But the light helps with seeing more detail and causing much less reflection and eye strain when working up close. The clip is the biggest issue for me . . .



You described my impressions almost exactly. The Alpha won't make anyone go WOW when they first fire it up, but if you carry it around and actually use it for a while you can begin to experience some of its advantages. It's not suitable for someone who needs a lot of throw but it's extremely nice for the more up close stuff.



RI Chevy said:


> Excellent review Jim! :thumbsup: Did you by any chance take a voltage reading of the CR123A that was used in your testing? I am just curious how low the cell got. The readings are pretty good I think. I would definitely be cautious of using the Li Ion cell due to heat alone for a continuous run.



Thank you sir. I didn't think to check the battery voltage on the CR123 but, now that you mention it, I wish I had. I will try to remember to do that in future tests.

I used to let the tests run until the lights either shut off or had dropped to "moonlight" mode. However, with some lights that takes a really long time and it's a pretty boring process! I suppose it's just laziness on my part but I have started cutting off the tests at some point after the lights get down below 10% of their initial output. In the case of the Alpha, I would estimate it was still producing 10-15 lumens after 80 minutes which was still a useful amount of light.


----------



## GeoBruin

I'm actually not deterred at all by the beam profile but I'm thinking that with such easy access to the LED, a skilled individual could probably de-dome the XP-G fairly easily and increase the throw significantly. I don't know what it would do to the tint (or output) but some brave soul should try it :devil:


----------



## 880arm

GeoBruin said:


> I'm actually not deterred at all by the beam profile but I'm thinking that with such easy access to the LED, a skilled individual could probably de-dome the XP-G fairly easily and increase the throw significantly. I don't know what it would do to the tint (or output) but some brave soul should try it :devil:



I'm no brave soul myself but it looks like it would be pretty easy to do!

I had been thinking more along the lines of an emitter swap but I don't know what would work with the stock driver.


----------



## vernSL

So who makes custom clips? We need to convince someone to make a better clip for the Alpha. Something similar to the SureFire two way clip so that more of the light sits inside the pocket.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

That clip is terrible. Really terrible. :green:


----------



## Doby34

Does anyone have the ability to measure the low of the bravo-Charlie high low tail cap on the alpha? Just curious just how low the low would be. Having a high and a firefly could be useful. Thanks.


----------



## Str8stroke

Yo D, I can tell you it is far from Firefly. I can post a beam shot tomorrow when I get to work, if you remind me via PM. Any light you want me to compare it with? How about the nice moonlight of a Quark Tactical. That is a good low low. Or I can use a 1 lumen surefire Headlamp?


----------



## Grizzman

It's definitely moonlight-level output, not firefly.


----------



## Grizzman

I received the Raven Concealment clip today. This is the first time I can state that I've overpaid for a clip.

I think I'll be using the Prometheus, unless something convinces me to try Elzetta's.


----------



## RI Chevy

Grizzman said:


> It's definitely moonlight-level output, not firefly.



X2. Probably 5 - 10 lumens or so.


----------



## 880arm

An astute visitor to my site pointed out that the Elzetta clip works well when attached to the tailcap instead of the light body.




I tried it out and I think it looks better and is more in proportion to the light. It will work with all switch types but it's best with the plain clicky.


----------



## Doby34

Str8stroke said:


> ....... Any light you want me to compare it with?.......



Thanks very much for the generous offer. The dimmest I currently own is a nitecore d11.2 which I think I read somewhere was 3 lumens. Anything in that neighborhood would give me a good idea of how low the apha goes.


----------



## Billbo

I am wearing a Elzetta M60 ZFL M60 2Cell on my duty belt.
I am asking me if I should use a AW 17670er, 16650er or 16340er rechargeable batteries?


Anyone has some experience?


----------



## tobrien

Billbo said:


> I am wearing a Elzetta M60 ZFL M60 2Cell on my duty belt.
> I am asking me if I should use a AW 17670er, 16650er or 16340er rechargeable batteries?
> 
> 
> Anyone has some experience?


a 16650 (2000 mAh) should run a bit longer _I think_


----------



## Billbo

Someone knows if a 16650 would fit?


----------



## RI Chevy

tobrien said:


> a 16650 (2000 mAh) should run a bit longer _I think_



X2 for the 16650. It should fit without any issues.


----------



## Grizzman

AW protected 17670s fit comfortably in mine, so 16650s should.


----------



## Billbo

An what would give more runtime?

- 2x 16340
- 1x 17670
- 1x 16650

I think the 16650 variant with 2000 mAh.


----------



## Grizzman

Billbo said:


> An what would give more runtime?
> 
> - 2x 16340
> - 1x 17670
> - 1x 16650
> 
> I think the 16650 variant with 2000 mAh.



Should be 16650s by a small margin.


----------



## RI Chevy

Grizzman said:


> Should be 16650s by a small margin.



X2!


----------



## tobrien

Grizzman said:


> Should be 16650s by a small margin.


my personal bet is that the 16650s will be, of course, higher runtime, but I think it'll be a bigger margin than we'd expect.

My logic is because the AW 17670, while nice, is an older cell than the 16650 which is a newer offering by Sanyo (IIRC it's Sanyo). I haven't seen HKJ test the protected 17670 AW cells yet, but I doubt they'd perform as nicely as the 16650.

(this is just speculation)


----------



## Billbo

In the last nightshifts I used my ZFL-M60 with a AW 17670. 

After 9 h full of traffic control, searching in and outside buildings ... 
The battery had still more than 50 %


----------



## matt4350

I use the Bravo, not the M60, so I imagine our runtimes may be fairly different, but my unscientific testing using 17670s showed I could get about 60 minutes on high, tapering down to poor light at 70 minutes. Same light using 16340 rechargeables gave only a tad more than 30 minutes before cutout with no warning. I never use the 16340s at work because of the cutout. I'd be interested to try a 16650, if I could get them here.


----------



## billbebob

Looks like an Elzetta is in my future. A great light but not friendly to the wallet


----------



## pjandyho

billbebob said:


> Looks like an Elzetta is in my future. A great light but not friendly to the wallet


Fill the pinch, buy one, and think about it no more.  That's what I do all the time.


----------



## KeeblerElf

On a slightly different note, has anyone had any reliability issues with their Elzetta AVS head?

*The problem*

[Elzetta AVS head with Oveready-bored Bravo body and high/low tailcap]: I was on a bike ride tonight, with my Elzetta on low (so I would be more visible; it wasn't very dark yet). As it got darker outside, I rotated my tailcap to high. Upon doing so, the Elzetta flashed for a split second into high, then shut off. It was completely unresponsive to subsequent clicks. Luckily, it still wasn't very dark, and I was on a bike path, so it was safe to stop and swap in my Hound Dog that I brought along as a backup (glad I did!).

After I got home, I found that the light sometimes turns on, but sometimes doesn't. When it doesn't want to turn on, neither high nor low works, and it refuses to turn on for several clicks. But if I leave it alone for a little while and try again, it often starts working again like normal (...until it doesn't).

*The solution*

The inconsistency makes me think it's a contact issue, so I've used a Q-tip to clean off the little pin inside the tailcap (that makes electrical contact with the resistor). I also cleaned off the flat edge of the body that makes contact with the pin. There seemed to be some gunk on both of these areas, so I'll report back here if I can still reproduce the issue. I'm mostly posting this so others can use it as a reference, in case they run into similar problems. But if this doesn't turn out to fix the issue, any other ideas?


----------



## Grizzman

Is the orange o-ring in place.


----------



## KeeblerElf

I can't find an orange o-ring anywhere, and I don't recall seeing one before. Where would it typically be?


----------



## RI Chevy

KeeblerElf said:


> On a slightly different note, has anyone had any reliability issues with their Elzetta AVS head?
> 
> *The problem*
> 
> [Elzetta AVS head with Oveready-bored Bravo body and high/low tailcap]: I was on a bike ride tonight, with my Elzetta on low (so I would be more visible; it wasn't very dark yet). As it got darker outside, I rotated my tailcap to high. Upon doing so, the Elzetta flashed for a split second into high, then shut off. It was completely unresponsive to subsequent clicks. Luckily, it still wasn't very dark, and I was on a bike path, so it was safe to stop and swap in my Hound Dog that I brought along as a backup (glad I did!).
> 
> After I got home, I found that the light sometimes turns on, but sometimes doesn't. When it doesn't want to turn on, neither high nor low works, and it refuses to turn on for several clicks. But if I leave it alone for a little while and try again, it often starts working again like normal (...until it doesn't).
> 
> *The solution*
> 
> The inconsistency makes me think it's a contact issue, so I've used a Q-tip to clean off the little pin inside the tailcap (that makes electrical contact with the resistor). I also cleaned off the flat edge of the body that makes contact with the pin. There seemed to be some gunk on both of these areas, so I'll report back here if I can still reproduce the issue. I'm mostly posting this so others can use it as a reference, in case they run into similar problems. But if this doesn't turn out to fix the issue, any other ideas?



What battery or batteries were you using? CR123's or a single 17670/16650? It may have something to do with the bore and the contact with the tail cap.


----------



## ElectronGuru

If you leave off the tailcap and bridge the body and battery together (piece of metal) does the head still malfunction?


----------



## KeeblerElf

I was using an Eagletac 3400mAh 18650 (always the same battery, as my other 18650s have bumps on the negative contact plate, which won't play well with the rotation required for Elzetta's high/low tailcap). This combination has performed reliably before tonight, but tonight was the first time I really used it the light with some amount of vibration/shock (it was mounted to my handlebars).

The light appears to function when using a paperclip to make electrical contact, but I also haven't been able to reproduce the malfunction since cleaning the tailcap and body contacts.


----------



## Grizzman

My problem was when an o- ring from a standard head got far forward in an AVS head. If caused a circuit failure between head and body. Once the o- ring was removed, the issue was eliminated.


----------



## Billbo

I am unsure if I should buy a stock Elzetta Charlie with AVS head (for duty) or a bored variant from overready (with 2x 18490). 

It would be used as a handheld light during nightshifts. No weapon mounting.


----------



## Grizzman

I personally run my bored ZFL-M60 with AVS from a 3400 mAh 18650. The reduced output (500 lumens) allows for usefully long run times


----------



## Billbo

Is your Elzetta bored by Overready? Has it a retention lip or does it work without it?


----------



## Grizzman

Yes, it was bored by Oveready as part of a standard bore batch. By retention lip are you referring to the lip at the head end to keep the cell in place, or the lip at the tail end to interface with the high/low ring of the tailcap?


----------



## Billbo

If you ask on this way... Both [emoji28]
Could you post a pictures of these lips?

I am asking myself if a friend of me is able to bore it (he bored some of my SF lights)... But the two lips are crucial I think.


----------



## Grizzman

I'm going to be at work for about three more hours, but can take photos this evening. I should be able to get side by side shots of bored and unbored 2 cell lights.


----------



## Grizzman

I ended up working a lot later than expected. 

The bored light does have a lip at the head end of the tube, just like the stock body.

Oveready made numerous changes to the tail end. The outer edge of the end of the threads is beveled, giving more surface area at the end of the tube. A 2nd o-ring channel is also added (unlikely necessary, but still nice).

If your friend has a lathe and uses it well, I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to bore it. If he uses an "alternate" method, I sure wouldn't risk it. Oveready only charges somewhere around $22 plus shipping to bore them.


----------



## Billbo

Okay, thanks dude!

I will check if he is able to bore it out and create the two lips with his lathe. 

If you find some time to take a picture of the lips ... It would be great. But don't stress yourself. [emoji6]


----------



## Grizzman

Sure, I can take photos. I'm taking the day off, so can do it today.


----------



## Grizzman

The inner battery retaining lips at the head/body junction are virtually identical in person, so a photo won't be useful.

The bored light is on the right.

Here it can be seen that the last thread has been turned into an approximately 45 degree bevel. The addition of the o-ring channel leaves three threads for tailcap engagement, which seems perfectly adequate.


----------



## Billbo

Thanks a lot dude! [emoji106]


----------



## 880arm

Lots of questions in this thread about using the Bravo and Charlie with rechargeable batteries. I just wrapped up a review of the OVEREADY bored Elzetta bodies that included a bunch of runtime testing so I thought I would share the results here . . .

First up, some of the rechargeable options that will fit in a stock Bravo body . . .




The 16650 and 17670 maintained full output for only a few minutes before dropping out of regulation. The K2 Energy LFP123 cells provided very stable regulation but for only about 35 minutes.

Moving to the bored Elzetta body and 18mm cells makes a very noticeable difference (2xCR123 and 1x16650 from the previous chart shown for comparison) . . .




The big 3400mAh AW 18650 is the clear winner here. Although it dropped out of regulation sooner than the CR123s it provided an awesome long tapering output. I cut the chart off at 3 hours but the 18650 lasted over 3.5 hours until output dropped below 10%.

Of course the Bravo can also be used with two lithium-ion batteries bumping output up to 900 lumens. Naturally runtime is fairly brief . . .




Finally, the Charlie body was tested with IMR 18490 and protected 18500 cells (note: I ended the IMR 18490 test as soon as output dropped down to the "650 lumen" level to avoid over discharging the batteries. If left alone they would have continued to power the light for a while longer) . . .




Sometimes bigger IS better and the larger rechargeable batteries did well!


----------



## tobrien

I'm surprised the K2 cells did that well though, I was _assuming_ they'd do much, much poorer than anything else because I've never really associated LiFePO4 with incredible performance


----------



## Random Dan

Loving the Bravo's 18650 performance. It's tempting to pick one up as I really want to try an Elzetta, but I'm already quite happy with my Fury.


----------



## delus

*Bunch O' Questions/Comments, Amateur Night*

My Bravo was dropped in a big bucket of latex paint awhile back. I didn't even think twice. Just reached in and grabbed it, hosed it off, turned it off, and stuck it back in my pocket. The guy who dropped it was quite relieved. Only later did I figure that I should check the inside for paint, there was none except a tiny thin ring on the lens under the bezel. 
Last week I used it a few minutes in the morning. then forgot to pocket it as i left the house. The sense of loss was terrible all day. When I got home i immediately searched until I found it. Conclusion: I NEED another one before xmas.

I wanted to use rechargeable batteries from the start, and tried some tenergy Li-ion RCR123's which gave me less than ten minutes at full output and total runtimes of under 30 minutes. Perhaps these four are defective, so i got out the voltmeter and two of them seem to self discharge on the shelf a lot faster than the other two. Off to the recycler for all four.
After reading the sticky thread about the guy whose lungs were permanently injured when his CR123 primaries exploded, releasing hydrogen fluoride gas, I decided that my next Elzetta would be bored by overready, and was very pleased to see the runtime graphs that 880ARM has provided with various rechargeable batteries. Looks like 18650 for the win. 

Here come the questions: Maybe they belong in a different thread.
1. Has nothing changed since 2009 regarding release of highly poisonous HF gas from CR123 primaries when they fail? Exactly how rare is failure? What warning signs can I look for besides visible damage? I sure am glad I got US-made when I got a box of 50, I'd probably toss them if they were chinese.
2. I have 16 of Panasonic NCR18650B Li-ion with flat-top (for my NiWalkers). Will there be no problem using a bored Elzetta and these flat-top batteries? I don't think there will be a problem, just thought I'd ask.
3. ....Waiting for HKJ to review an Elzetta because he seems to be the only one who posts amperage and voltage sweeps. Does anybody have an amperage graph for the Elzetta AVS head? (it's probably about 16 pages back in this thread)
4. When 880arm mentions "AW 18650 3400mAh" that means a battery with Li-Ion chemistry, right? Just to be positive.
5. Will Overready bore the Bravo body I already own? (I just asked them a minute ago)

For six years of my life, I was an alcoholic, and would call New Year's Eve "Amateur Night". Since I got my first Elzetta, I've been a little drunk on flashlights, and it's Flashlight Amateur Night for me.
I feel like I know just enough to be dangerous. At this point i just want to stop myself from making mistakes.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Re: Bunch O' Questions/Comments, Amateur Night*

The NCR18650B flat tops should fit perfectly! 

Question #4. YES Li Ion chemistry. 4.2v's. 
Question #5. Yes, Oveready will bore your Bravo body. They are excellent and will do a fine job with it, rest assured! 

Congratulations on your sobriety! :thumbsup: Keep up the good work and strong will.


----------



## 880arm

*Re: Bunch O' Questions/Comments, Amateur Night*



delus said:


> . . . Looks like 18650 for the win.
> 
> Here come the questions: Maybe they belong in a different thread.
> 1. Has nothing changed since 2009 regarding release of highly poisonous HF gas from CR123 primaries when they fail? Exactly how rare is failure? What warning signs can I look for besides visible damage? I sure am glad I got US-made when I got a box of 50, I'd probably toss them if they were chinese.
> 2. I have 16 of Panasonic NCR18650B Li-ion with flat-top (for my NiWalkers). Will there be no problem using a bored Elzetta and these flat-top batteries? I don't think there will be a problem, just thought I'd ask.
> 3. ....Waiting for HKJ to review an Elzetta because he seems to be the only one who posts amperage and voltage sweeps. Does anybody have an amperage graph for the Elzetta AVS head? (it's probably about 16 pages back in this thread)
> 4. When 880arm mentions "AW 18650 3400mAh" that means a battery with Li-Ion chemistry, right? Just to be positive.
> 5. Will Overready bore the Bravo body I already own? (I just asked them a minute ago)



Looks like you're getting good use out of your Elzetta and you're right, an 18650 in the Bravo is pretty awesome!

To your questions . . .



I don't know of anything that has changed but *USA Made* CR123 cells have an excellent safety record when handled properly. As long as you don't mix & match cells, mistreat them, short circuit them, or otherwise do something to incur their wrath there isn't a lot to worry about from failures.
Flat top batteries will work fine.
I haven't seen one. Elzetta has a video out somewhere that shows the initial amp draw but I can't remember what the numbers were. I have been wanting to do a full measurement as I'm sure the current will increase as the battery voltage drops but I just don't have the right set-up for doing that right now.
Yep, like RI Chevy said, they are lithium-ion batteries. AW is just the brand that I normally use but there are lots of others that are pretty good. Since you mentioned HKJ, you probably know his site is about the best source of information out there on batteries.
Ditto to what Chevy said. :thumbsup:


----------



## Swedpat

Random Dan said:


> Loving the Bravo's 18650 performance. It's tempting to pick one up as I really want to try an Elzetta, but I'm already quite happy with my Fury.



I agree. 2/3 of initial brightness after 2h and 50% at 2h 40m isn't bad. The advantage is that there will be plenty of time to notice when it's time to recharge the battery. At first I was interested in Charlie, but I think I will get Bravo instead.


----------



## delus

Thank You both for the helpful info.

I found the Elzetta video with amperage info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9obbAKgeiLc Every time I see Dave Barnett I am impressed by his flawless presentations. Even in the trade-show videos with lots of background noise and distractions, he is laser-focused. He is an awesome sales rep.
The AVS head draws 1.13A on a Bravo, and 1.28A on a Charlie. 
With Malkoff heads... 0.68A.
With some other un-named brand flashlight... 3.8A ... DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! Wow, it's hard to believe they draw over twice the battery's safe limit. Now that I know about the Hydrogen Fluoride, I'm that much more impressed by Elzetta. Toughest Flashlight on the Planet

OverReady said they do bore runs once a year and I'll have to wait. I really want to keep my current body because it has my name engraved on it, so I'll carefully use up the CR123's I have stockpiled until they do another bore run. In the meantime, I ordered a bored bravo from them.
Heheh. Maybe I should have gotten a multimeter instead. I hear those Flukes are good.


[edited to correct the name of the elzetta spokesman]


----------



## rookiedaddy

bought these alphas a couple of days back, so far I'm liking it very much... 
- nice neutral/warmish tint (my 2 alphas have different neutral tint)
- great feel on hand
- responsive switch
- good balance in beam profile (the older M60 still out-throw the alpha tho...)
:twothumbs


----------



## scout24

Very little Alpha chatter here, Rookiedaddy's latest not withstanding... but I see none for sale on the BST. How about some more user experience now that they have been out a while? I know they are out there...


----------



## Cerealand

Scout24 is right. Usually a few lights pop for sale on the CPFmarketplace after their initial release. Must be worth it since nobody is reselling them.


----------



## neutralwhite

http://youtu.be/5_kdndgikPU


----------



## Kaban

How are you guys liking the new Alphas?

To those who have had the chance to really use these lights so far, would you recommend it?


----------



## rookiedaddy

Kaban said:


> How are you guys liking the new Alphas?


Very much! Sometimes holster-carry with the Fenix Tasmanian Tiger Holster, most times just drop inside my pants pocket.



Kaban said:


> To those who have had the chance to really use these lights so far, would you recommend it?


Absolutely! :devil:


----------



## tmoneyinheaven

After wanting an Elzetta flashlight for more than a year now I found one on Amazon for $69. It's a B212 (bravo with low-profile basil and click tail cap) it is 10 times the light for the same price I paid about five years ago for my surefire G2. Considering what they go for retail I definitely have nothing to complain about the price I got it for. It was labeled used but when I pulled it out of the package I couldn't tell it wasn't new. I've been doing my research for a good rechargeable battery but will not be interested in boring out the body for I figure that takes away from its robust construction. 
Since I do have several 18650 batteries from my electronic cigarettes if I buy the rechargeables that fit the stock body will I be able to charge them in the same charger as the 18650s. 


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## 880arm

:welcome:

You got a steal of a deal at that price! A 17670 or 16650 lithium-ion battery should fit the stock body and can be charged the same as the 18650s.


----------



## Random Dan

tmoneyinheaven said:


> After wanting an Elzetta flashlight for more than a year now I found one on Amazon for $69. It's a B212 (bravo with low-profile basil and click tail cap) it is 10 times the light for the same price I paid about five years ago for my surefire G2. Considering what they go for retail I definitely have nothing to complain about the price I got it for. It was labeled used but when I pulled it out of the package I couldn't tell it wasn't new. I've been doing my research for a good rechargeable battery but will not be interested in boring out the body for I figure that takes away from its robust construction.
> Since I do have several 18650 batteries from my electronic cigarettes if I buy the rechargeables that fit the stock body will I be able to charge them in the same charger as the 18650s.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


I have a set of Keeppower protected 2000mAh 16650s that I use in my SF Fury and G2. They fit perfect and I have no complaints. While they may not have the same capacity as an 18650 they run plenty long enough for me.


----------



## 880arm

Amazon has gone nuts with the pricing on some of the older 235 lumen Elzettas. Several of them are marked down over $100 and can be bought for about the price of a High/Low tailcap or the cost of the M60 drop-in they come with. I just bought two for under $120. It's insane.

You can go search on Amazon or hit this link for one of the models.

Edit: Updated with different link


----------



## thedoc007

880arm said:


> Amazon has gone nuts with the pricing on some of the older 235 lumen Elzettas. Several of them are marked down over $100 and can be bought for about the price of a High/Low tailcap or the cost of the M60 drop-in they come with. I just bought two for under $120. It's insane.
> 
> You can go search on Amazon or hit this link for one of the models.



Thank you very much for the heads up! I grabbed one each of the two and three cell version...too good to pass up for about $120 shipped, for both. Not sure I'll use either, since I already have one, but if nothing else they will make great gifts.


----------



## RI Chevy

WOW. That is incredible.


----------



## Cerealand

Wow. I just informed a buddy that was looking for one.


----------



## Slumber

The secrets out! Thanks 880arm.


----------



## Grizzman

I also appreciate the info.


----------



## 880arm

Glad it helped. I knew there would be some folks here who would like those deals!


----------



## RI Chevy

The 3 cell lights sold out in a few minutes. There are a few 2 cell lights left.


----------



## Cerealand

There are 3 cells left. Just got to sort the various models.


I tried to PM you RI chevy, but your inbox is full.


----------



## RI Chevy

The link shows me this: _*Sign up to be notified when this item becomes available. *_

PM Inbox cleared up. Sorry.


----------



## Slumber

Amazon is weird sometimes. Try clearing your cookies and cache and search again. I'm still seeing 3-cells, but they're like 3 or 4 pages deep in the search.


----------



## Cerealand

PM sent. Hope it helps.


----------



## RI Chevy

Got it. Thanks for the help. I am not sure what is going on from my end here.


----------



## 880arm

There are over a dozen versions that are still under $100. Some of the weapon light versions (with tape switch) are selling for less than the tape switch itself.

I'm going to maintain a full list here.


----------



## Grizzman

This opportunity will allowed me to try out a cool M60 flood and low profile bezel. 

Some awesome Elzetta Lego-ing will occur on Wednesday.


----------



## Random Dan

880arm said:


> Amazon has gone nuts with the pricing on some of the older 235 lumen Elzettas. Several of them are marked down over $100 and can be bought for about the price of a High/Low tailcap or the cost of the M60 drop-in they come with. I just bought two for under $120. It's insane.
> 
> You can go search on Amazon or hit this link for one of the models.
> 
> Edit: Updated with different link


Dude you are awesome! I just bought a 2-cell with tape switch and a 3-cell clicky, cost ~$120 for both :thumbsup: And I still get free 2-day shipping on my free trial of amazon student. This is freaking highway robbery here. 

I'm started to think that I need a third Elzetta with an M60F...


----------



## Kaban

I did the math. I can purchase the remaining 68 lights for a little over $4k and make a good profit selling this stuff on ebay. Thinking about pulling the trigger but idk.


----------



## 880arm

Random Dan said:


> . . . I'm started to think that I need a third Elzetta with an M60F...



And I'm starting to think I need one with the tape switch. I guess I should focus on how much I'm saving instead of what I'm spending! :naughty:


----------



## tobrien

RI Chevy said:


> The 3 cell lights sold out in a few minutes. There are a few 2 cell lights left.



I got one of those 3 celled lights! mine comes via Prime on Monday!!!

@Kaban: hahah go for it!


----------



## pineapple

880arm said:


> There are over a dozen versions that are still under $100. Some of the weapon light versions (with tape switch) are selling for less than the tape switch itself.
> 
> I'm going to maintain a full list here.



This is fantastic - thanks for the heads up! Just ordered one using the link from your website. I've been curious about Elzetta and also M60's, and now I got _both_ _in one package_ _at a huge discount!_​

I'd also like to thank you for the great reviews on your website. As a newbie to flashlights I've used your site extensively when looking for new or not-so-new flashlights. The beamshot comparisons, runtimes, and detailed descriptions you provide are invaluable! Thank You!


----------



## Random Dan

880arm said:


> And I'm starting to think I need one with the tape switch. I guess I should focus on how much I'm saving instead of what I'm spending! :naughty:


That's the spirit. I finally caved and bought a 2-cell hi/lo clicky as well. I'm saving all kinds of money.


----------



## Slumber

Random Dan said:


> I'm started to think that I need a third Elzetta with an M60F...



Been thinking the same thing all day.


----------



## Grizzman

I'd been very curious about Elzettas for several years, but couldn't justify the price....till I stumbled across a Thanksgiving sale through a firearms forum.

That one purchase proved that they are well worth the full asking price, and it led to multiple follow-up purchases. These prices on Amazon are simply nuts. If anyone's on the fence about getting one, don't hesitate. 

You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Kaban

I don't know how I contained myself but I only ended up purchasing three of the 3-cell models and one of the 2-cell models.


----------



## Kaban

Holy moly..... alot of the prices (especially the 3 cells went back to normal) seconds after I bought mine.

I click on each item I bought in the email confirmation and they are back to $190. WOOHOO! Lucky me lol.


----------



## 880arm

pineapple said:


> . . . I've been curious about Elzetta and also M60's, and now I got _both_ _in one package_ _at a huge discount!_​ . . .



Congratulations, you can't go wrong at this price. Even if you decide you want more output later, you only have to buy a new head. The rest of the light will last forever. And thanks for your comments and visiting my site :twothumbs



Random Dan said:


> That's the spirit. I finally caved and bought a 2-cell hi/lo clicky as well. I'm saving all kinds of money.



You're a bad influence on me, I just went back and ordered one with the tape switch. I swear that's it . . . no more Elzettas . . . today :devil:



Grizzman said:


> . . . These prices on Amazon are simply nuts. If anyone's on the fence about getting one, don't hesitate.
> 
> You won't be disappointed.



No doubt. I still can't believe how far they are marked down.

Some people may not be satisfied with the "measly" 235 lumen output of the M60 but it's still a great drop-in for a lot of uses. If someone doesn't like the M60, they can just sell it on the marketplace and get a good portion of their purchase price back, leaving them with a bomb proof host for whatever other upgrade they can dream up.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

880arm, I just visited your web site, and I will say you do excellent work there. First class reviewing. I particularly enjoyed your Surefire tour of their facilities. My post is a little bit OT, but I"m allowed. LOL.

Bill


----------



## 880arm

Thanks Bill. I'm still figuring things out as I go along but I've had a lot of great support along the way, from a ton of folks, including you. :buddies:


----------



## Redhat703

Could not resist and ordered two 3-cell with M60F, one with clicky and one with hi/strobe. Still way cheaper than the one I bought before.
Thanks guys lovecpf


----------



## GeoBruin

Yowzers. Those are crazy deals. I just bought:

*Elzetta ZFL-M60-SF3C Tactical Weapon LED Flashlight with Flood Lens Standard Bezel, 3-Cell, Click Tail Cap*

*Elzetta ZFL-M60-CS2B Tactical Weapon LED Flashlight with Strike Bezel, 2-Cell, Remote Tape Switch with 12-Inch Cable*

*Elzetta ZFL-M60-LS2D Tactical Weapon LED Flashlight with Low Profile Bezel, 2-Cell, High/Low Tail Cap*


Which means, I now have at least one each of:

2 cell body
3 cell body
Click Switch
Hi/Low Switch
Tape Switch
Standard Bezel
Low Profile Bezel
Strike Bezel
M60
M60F

That gives me every possible combination of components I could want to experiment and figure out which configurations I like best plus have spare parts. 

880arm, all were purchased from your affiliate links and it's the least I can do to help support you and all you do here and on your website. Also, I just noticed this was my 880th post so something must be right in the world... 

I'm finally going to be in the Elzetta club! 

Now I just need to land and Alpha...

Cheers! 

-G


----------



## Grizzman

Geo, it seems you need a couple AVS heads, one having the flood optic. They are awesome!!


----------



## GeoBruin

Yes I'm Sure I'll have to experiment with some AVS heads at some point. For the time being I have just about every Malkoff Drop-In ever made so I've got plenty of toying around I can do first. Also, I've got more MD2s and MD3s than you can shake a stick at so I'll be able to swap between those as well.


----------



## 880arm

GeoBruin said:


> . . . I now have at least one each of:
> 
> 2 cell body
> 3 cell body
> Click Switch
> Hi/Low Switch
> Tape Switch
> Standard Bezel
> Low Profile Bezel
> Strike Bezel
> M60
> M60F
> 
> That gives me every possible combination of components I could want to experiment and figure out which configurations I like best plus have spare parts.



I'm like a kid with a LEGO set when it comes to modular lights like this. I'm pretty sure I now have (or will have) every piece and part Elzetta makes except for the 5" tape switch. There's still some of those on sale so I'm trying to exercise some restraint! :sweat:



GeoBruin said:


> . . . Also, I just noticed this was my 880th post so something must be right in the world...  . . .



It's synchronicity!

Thanks for your support and welcome to the club! :wave:


----------



## tobrien

GeoBruin said:


> Yowzers. Those are crazy deals. I just bought:
> 
> *Elzetta ZFL-M60-SF3C Tactical Weapon LED Flashlight with Flood Lens Standard Bezel, 3-Cell, Click Tail Cap*
> 
> *Elzetta ZFL-M60-CS2B Tactical Weapon LED Flashlight with Strike Bezel, 2-Cell, Remote Tape Switch with 12-Inch Cable*
> 
> *Elzetta ZFL-M60-LS2D Tactical Weapon LED Flashlight with Low Profile Bezel, 2-Cell, High/Low Tail Cap*
> 
> 
> Which means, I now have at least one each of:
> 
> 2 cell body
> 3 cell body
> Click Switch
> Hi/Low Switch
> Tape Switch
> Standard Bezel
> Low Profile Bezel
> Strike Bezel
> M60
> M60F
> 
> That gives me every possible combination of components I could want to experiment and figure out which configurations I like best plus have spare parts.
> 
> 880arm, all were purchased from your affiliate links and it's the least I can do to help support you and all you do here and on your website. Also, I just noticed this was my 880th post so something must be right in the world...
> 
> I'm finally going to be in the Elzetta club!
> 
> Now I just need to land and Alpha...
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -G



Nice! that's amazing! 

do you have a tailcap preference? I ordered (from amazon) a "Standard Bezel, M60, 3-Cell, Click Switch" model, but do you mind telling me about the strobe and high/low tails with regards to their secondary modes? is the strobe disorienting or is it one of those where it's such a fast strobe it may as well be constant on?

and is the low _a lot_ lower?


----------



## Cerealand

Found this info about the high/low output on elzetta website:


Output (Lumens)235Low Mode Output (l)15Runtime2 h 30 minLow Mode Runtime75 hStrobe ModeNoLED ModuleMalkoff M60


----------



## GeoBruin

I don't think I got a strobe tail in all that but I definitely was looking for a hi/low tail. I hope it works similarly to the Malkoff MD2 head as that is my favorite interface of all time.


----------



## Cerealand

GeoBruin said:


> I don't think I got a strobe tail in all that but I definitely was looking for a hi/low tail. I hope it works similarly to the Malkoff MD2 head as that is my favorite interface of all time.



It functions like the Malkoff MD2. The difference is that you twist the tailcap instead of the bezel for high/low.


----------



## RI Chevy

The High/Low tail cap does work very similar to the Malkoff High/Low ring. Pretty close output as well.


----------



## Redhat703

Cerealand said:


> It functions like the Malkoff MD2. The difference is that you twist the tailcap instead of the bezel for high/low.





RI Chevy said:


> The High/Low tail cap does work very similar to the Malkoff High/Low ring. Pretty close output as well.


In addition, the tail cap works similar to Surefire LX2: press/click for low, press further for high.


----------



## GeoBruin

Wait, are you sure about that? Don't get me wrong, I love that interface as well... I spent plenty of time tracking down an Mce2s for an e series build, but had no idea the Elzetta cap would do it. I thought Surefire put the kabash on anyone else using that interface? 

Edit: I'm dumb. I just re-read your post. You said click for low then push further for high, not momentary low then push further for momentary high. In other words, if I just mash the switch from off then let off, it will give me momentary high but then return to low if it's on the low setting. Is that right? 



Redhat703 said:


> In addition, the tail cap works similar to Surefire LX2: press/click for low, press further for high.


----------



## Cerealand

Usually, it's strictly tighten tailcap for high and loosen tailcap for low with the high/low tailcap. (It functions exactly like a MD2 with high/low ring, but you use the tailcap to adjust the high/low output instead of the bezel). I have the high/low tailcap on a elzetta host in my hands right now.

I just tried the rotary/momentary tailcap. It's strictly single mode with this light with the M60 drop-in with the momentary tailcap.


----------



## Redhat703

Cerealand said:


> No, it does not. It's strictly tighten tailcap for high and loosen tailcap for low with the high/low tailcap. (It functions exactly like a MD2 with high/low ring, but you use the tailcap to adjust the high/low output instead of the bezel). I have the high/low tailcap on a elzetta host in my hands right now.
> 
> I just tried the rotary/momentary tailcap. It's strictly single mode with this light with the M60 drop-in with the momentary tailcap.


It is a little bit tricky. I just tested with mine. You set the tail cap about 1/8 CCW of the full closed position. Then a half press will bring it to momentary low, press further for momentary high, both without any click.


----------



## Grizzman

I just tested all of mine in the manner you state, and none of them give the same results as yours. My guess is that yours is an anomaly.


----------



## Redhat703

GeoBruin said:


> Wait, are you sure about that? Don't get me wrong, I love that interface as well... I spent plenty of time tracking down an Mce2s for an e series build, but had no idea the Elzetta cap would do it. I thought Surefire put the kabash on anyone else using that interface?
> 
> Edit: I'm dumb. I just re-read your post. You said click for low then push further for high, not momentary low then push further for momentary high. In other words, if I just mash the switch from off then let off, it will give me momentary high but then return to low if it's on the low setting. Is that right?


It should work both for momentary, just don't press very hard. If you press harder, it will click.


----------



## Xacto

Just ordered two 2cell lights but it seems that the high/low tailcaps are sold out since I couldn't find any.

only thing to worry about is the german customs office since they are called weapons lights....... the Law only applies to lights with Build-in mounting brackets (Surefire X300) but who knows....

cheers
Thorsten


----------



## Redhat703

Grizzman said:


> I just tested all of mine in the manner you state, and none of them give the same results as yours. My guess is that yours is an anomaly.


Let divide the action "press" to very light, light, and normal press. Normal press will click the tail cap switch. At the point of 1/8-1/16 of the fully closed position of the tail cap, very light press (and hold) will get you a low, light press (and hold) will get you a hi, and normal press will click the switch.


----------



## Grizzman

Does your light have a clip?

If I remove the clip from my Bravo and loosen the tailcap very slightly (to the point where low is first activated, and barely perceptible), it will act as Redhat specifies. It's so difficult to accomplish reliably, and won't occur at all with a Prometheus clip installed, I hardly consider it useful.


----------



## Redhat703

Grizzman said:


> Does your light have a clip?


No


----------



## Cerealand

Redhat703 said:


> Let divide the action "press" to very light, light, and normal press. Normal press will click the tail cap switch. At the point of 1/8-1/16 of the fully closed position of the tail cap, very light press (and hold) will get you a low, light press (and hold) will get you a hi, and normal press will click the switch.



I was able to reproduce something similar to what Redhat703 did. For me, I had to play with the tailcap. I had to try to set it right at the border of the high/low placement on the tailcap. If I press it momentary lightly, I get low. If I click and let go, I get low. If I press all the way in without letting go, I get momentary high. The problem with this for me is when I just want constant low, the beam goes to high for a second before it drops down to constant low. Maybe with playing the tailcap more, it will prevent that from happening to me.

I think when I press all the way in, it's physically pushing the entire tailcap down to where the light thinks that the tailcap has been tighten.


----------



## 880arm

Cerealand said:


> . . . it's physically pushing the entire tailcap down to where the light thinks that the tailcap has been tighten.



+1


----------



## BenChiew

You can also trigger that with a Malkoff HiLo ring. Set it to low and while it is on low, press the bezel towards the body and you get high. Release it and it goes back to low. It is just the reverse end on an Elzetta.
Not reliable though. As Cerealand said, it triggers a high bleep before you get the constant low. Not good when you go to the toilet in the middle of the night.


----------



## tmoneyinheaven

I posted a while back that I got a 2 cell, it was used labeled but came in premo condition. I was floored when I saw the post on here yesterday and I had 200$ to blow in Amazon gift cards so now I have a b212 and a c114 for right at about 100$. But I have ordered one on Amazon before, be careful the description on the one I bought said it had a high low tail cap it was only a click tail cap but Amazon refunded 30% of my purchase price to make up for it. 
I spent 69$ to start with and that brought it down to 49$ that makes me very happy lol.
Also getting off topic but I just got a light for my mt. bike very cool it is a niterider lumina 750 works so good.



Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## GeoBruin

I was a little worried about that as the description of one of my lights said 
Low Profile Bezel but the picture was obviously a standard bezel. Clearly Amazon doesn't know how seriously we take these things!


----------



## Slumber

GeoBruin said:


> I was a little worried about that as the description of one of my lights said
> Low Profile Bezel but the picture was obviously a standard bezel. Clearly Amazon doesn't know how seriously we take these things!



I ordered an LS2D that had the standard bezel pic. As much as I prefer the Low Profile Bezel, I REALLY hope they get the tail caps right.


----------



## SoCalDep

I ordered the three cell model with rotary and flood. This should be a great intro as I'm exclusively interested in the light for tactical purposes. I almost ordered a tape switch model... But I'll have fun with this one first! Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## whizz

Finally a brand that meet and exceeds my expectations of quality!

Thanks for the heads up regarding amazon's discounts… managed to get my hands on 3 of them. 
Ordered some spare parts and an AVS head from Elzetta while at it, so now I just need the custom bored bravo from Overedy and I'm all set!

My first set of *real* flashlights (yea, I'm a noob!)


----------



## Cerealand

You can always sign up for the Oveready boring list. They can bore your elzetta body. Saves money over buying another tube.


----------



## ridedpu

880arm said:


> Amazon has gone nuts with the pricing on some of the older 235 lumen Elzettas.



I've been a long-time lurker, but decided it was time to come out of hiding so I could thank you. I've got a 2-cell and a 3-cell on the way. Might have to look into having Oveready bore them out.


----------



## RI Chevy

Welcome both of you to the Forum! :welcome: :welcome:


----------



## 880arm

Heard today from a member who already received one of the discounted Elzettas. He must live next door to an Amazon warehouse! 

As the product listings indicated, these are some older stock with the original markings (ZFL-M60 instead of the Bravo/Charlie being used today). I'm actually glad about that because I wanted one with Malkoff Designs engraved on the side. Since these have been around for a while it looks like they may be a bit dusty, literally. They have probably been sitting on a shelf for a couple of years.

Since these appear to be older lights, those of you who bought the high/strobe tailcap and are thinking about upgrading to the AVS head, be advised that your tailcap will probably need to be upgraded as well. Elzetta does this for free but you will have to mail the tailcap to them. The other tailcaps are good to go with the higher output heads.

I did some digging around and I believe an Elzetta dealer, who sells on Amazon and other sites, is liquidating their stock. Some similarly discounted lights are currently listed on the Sears website, although they haven't been dropped as much as what was on Amazon. I first thought the company was Grace Marketing, since that name shows up in the product listings, but now I'm not so sure. I don't guess it matters though.



Slumber Pass said:


> I ordered an LS2D that had the standard bezel pic. As much as I prefer the Low Profile Bezel, I REALLY hope they get the tail caps right.



I hope you get the right one but if they mess up let me know. I'll be in San Antonio next month and might be able to help you out.



whizz said:


> Finally a brand that meet and exceeds my expectations of quality!
> 
> Thanks for the heads up regarding amazon's discounts… managed to get my hands on 3 of them.
> Ordered some spare parts and an AVS head from Elzetta while at it, so now I just need the custom bored bravo from Overedy and I'm all set!
> 
> My first set of *real* flashlights (yea, I'm a noob!)



Congratulations and :welcome:. You picked some good ones to start with.

I feel obligated to warn you that extra spare parts have a way of turning into complete flashlights (at additional cost). I started with just a Charlie (with high/low tailcap and AVS head) and spare Bravo body. Since I had the extra body I bought another AVS head and a clicky tailcap, along with a momentary tailcap. Since I had an extra tailcap . . . . well, you can guess the rest! :shrug: 



ridedpu said:


> I've been a long-time lurker, but decided it was time to come out of hiding so I could thank you. I've got a 2-cell and a 3-cell on the way. Might have to look into having Oveready bore them out.



Wow, you have been here for a while! A belated :welcome: to you!

The bored bodies are a great option with the M60 or the newer AVS heads.


----------



## thedoc007

880arm said:


> Heard today from a member who already received one of the discounted Elzettas. He must live next door to an Amazon warehouse!



Count me among those who have already received one (with two more on the way). I ordered two at the same time, and the third just a few hours later, and they were all shipped separately, with different carriers. Got free two-day shipping on all three thanks to Prime, but the first one arrived only one business day later (Kentucky to Michigan, hardly next door). Kudos to Amazon, and especially to 880arm for the link!


----------



## Random Dan

Mail day! Very impressed with the quality so far.

All four cost me less than $230; If I were to buy each one again right now it would cost $784


----------



## 880arm

Random Dan said:


> Mail day! Very impressed with the quality so far.
> 
> All four cost me less than $230; If I were to buy each one again right now it would cost $784



That's a pretty nice savings! Two of mine arrived today, one more scheduled for tomorrow. One of the packages was a little beat up (imagine trying to survive being in a box full of Elzetta flashlights) but the lights are just fine. Can't believe they were for sale at that price!


----------



## Cerealand

Thanks for posting the sale/deal. I actually received a 3 cell "Charlie" instead of a malkoff labeled one. I'm a big Malkoff fan too. Even though the outside doesn't state Malkoff, the heart of this baby is a Malkoff M60F.


----------



## Grizzman

Mine was just delivered. It's also a Charlie, not a 3-cell ZFL-M60. The tailcap and bezel are correct.

I liked the idea of receiving a ZFL, since that would put me at one each of all naming options.


----------



## GeoBruin

Received all three of mine yesterday. All are as described in the descriptions on Amazon. As others have described, there appears to be some dust of some kind on the lights but it's easily removed. Also appears to be a patina or film of some kind inside the battery tube. It just looks like they were sitting for a long time. Everything appears to function well though and for the price, I'm not complaining.


----------



## Slumber

880arm said:


> I hope you get the right one but if they mess up let me know. I'll be in San Antonio next month and might be able to help you out.



Watch out, San Antonio will grow on you. Honestly, for the price I paid, I can live with almost any combination I get. It would be cool to get you to autograph my light!


----------



## ridedpu

I got my lights from Amazon today - I'm impressed! One question though: The high/low tail cap feels very different on my 3-cell body (Charlie-stamped for those keeping score at home) than it does on the 2-cell (marked ZFL-M60). On the 2-cell, it screws from beginning to stop (triggering high) with constant, light pressure. On the 3-cell though, the effort to tighten it the final 1/4 turn or so is much higher -- it makes it almost impossible to switch between low and high one-handed.

I've tried cleaning out the threads and re-lubing, but that doesn't seem to have helped. Does anyone have any suggestions? Is this just the way they are?

Thanks in advance!

On a side note, I'm amazed at the difference in hand feel between my MD2 and either of the Elzettas.


----------



## Slumber

I know sometime back they added more threads to the tail end. Maybe when they changed the naming to Charlie and Bravo. The old ones had a groove for a second o ring. In adding more threads they may have eliminated that groove, but added a little more resistance with the thread increase. 

I personally prefer high resistance when turning tail caps. Even if requires two hands. This is why I don't like the HDS Rotary

With time the o ring or threads themselves may wear down and smooth out.


----------



## 880arm

Slumber Pass said:


> Watch out, San Antonio will grow on you. Honestly, for the price I paid, I can live with almost any combination I get. It would be cool to get you to autograph my light!



I've only been to San Antonio twice but I love it. My prior visits were in the spring so I hope the December weather will be decent and I can spend some more quality time on the Riverwalk.



ridedpu said:


> . . . One question though: The high/low tail cap feels very different on my 3-cell body (Charlie-stamped for those keeping score at home) than it does on the 2-cell (marked ZFL-M60) . . .



The fit is tighter with the three cell bodies as they were intentionally made to hold the batteries very securely. They are made to hold one more battery but aren't quite one full battery longer, if that makes any sense. :thinking:


----------



## Slumber

880arm said:


> I've only been to San Antonio twice but I love it. My prior visits were in the spring so I hope the December weather will be decent and I can spend some more quality time on the Riverwalk.



They'll have it all lit up for you. They light it up from the day after Thanksgiving to New Year's Day. I prefer the old incandescent lights, however, to the ones they use now.


----------



## ridedpu

Slumber Pass said:


> I know sometime back they added more threads to the tail end. Maybe when they changed the naming to Charlie and Bravo. The old ones had a groove for a second o ring. In adding more threads they may have eliminated that groove, but added a little more resistance with the thread increase.
> 
> I personally prefer high resistance when turning tail caps. Even if requires two hands. This is why I don't like the HDS Rotary
> 
> With time the o ring or threads themselves may wear down and smooth out.



Thanks - Yes, only one o ring groove. 



880arm said:


> The fit is tighter with the three cell bodies as they were intentionally made to hold the batteries very securely. They are made to hold one more battery but aren't quite one full battery longer, if that makes any sense. :thinking:



Definitely makes sense. Here's a picture to illustrate in case anyone comes across this thread with a similar question. (Batteries are pushed forward. 2 cell ZFL-M60 on top, Charlie on bottom)


----------



## Grizzman

I just added the new Charlie to my inventory spreadsheet. It's two digits away from my other Charlie.....so close.


----------



## ganymede

For those that missed the recent Elzetta sales on Amazon, there are plenty on CPFM now. :shakehead


----------



## Cerealand

There are some still on Amazon at decent prices ($95+ range). Check out 800arm link in this thread or do a search on amazon for Elzetta under 'tools and home improvement'.

example:
Elzetta ZFL-M60-SF2R Tactical Weapon LED Flashlight with Flood Lens Standard Bezel, 2-Cell, Rotary Tail Cap for around $95 shipped.


----------



## GrizzlyAdams

ganymede said:


> For those that missed the recent Elzetta sales on Amazon, there are plenty on CPFM now. :shakehead



For original MSRP lol...I can always tell when there was a big sale on an item, everyone has multiple of the same item up for sale.


----------



## dc38

Lol...greedy bums


----------



## Airmanb

I know, right! I've been trying to get my hands on an Elzetta for about 2 years now but I'm too cheap to pay MSRP. I came really close to buying a 3 cell on Sears.com for $85 even though I really want a two cell . Today I looked on Sears.com and it's waay over priced. Really wish I'd pulled the trigger yesterday.. I'll just keep scouring the Internet until I find my perfect light.


----------



## Kid9P

I received my M60F/Elzetta 3 celled/High-Low a few days ago from amazon.

The tailcap was faulty, no low.
They sent me a replacement and that works just fine.

Those folks that purchased a bunch from Amazon and are now selling them on the marketplace should test each
light for functionality first.


----------



## Cerealand

The 3 cell one I purchased had no low when I received it. The threads were really dry. I lubed it up and the high/low works now.


----------



## RI Chevy

I wonder how long they have been sitting there for? 2...3....years?


----------



## tobrien

RI Chevy said:


> I wonder how long they have been sitting there for? 2...3....years?



mine was really dusty (3-cell, clicky) and definitely looked like it'd been sitting around for a while


----------



## Billbo

I have a question about the high/low switch. 

I ordered one from Elzetta and tried it at home. But there wasn't a noticeable change of the Output. Only while pointing the light on a wall direct in front of me the beam seems to be a little bit weaker. 

I buyed it to use the low during writing something in duty. But this low isnt't ideal for that. 

Is this normal?


----------



## twl

Billbo said:


> I have a question about the high/low switch.
> 
> I ordered one from Elzetta and tried it at home. But there wasn't a noticeable change of the Output. Only while pointing the light on a wall direct in front of me the beam seems to be a little bit weaker.
> 
> I buyed it to use the low during writing something in duty. But this low isnt't ideal for that.
> 
> Is this normal?


Doesn't sound normal to me.
My Hi/Lo switch is around 15 lumens on low, and 235 lumens on high. There is a huge difference between high and low.


----------



## Billbo

Do you thing it is fixable? Or something for the Elzetta service. Maybe someone had a similiar problem?


----------



## Xacto

Billbo said:


> Do you thing it is fixable? Or something for the Elzetta service. Maybe someone had a similiar problem?


Have you checked the small switch inside the tailcap assembly? Its the small nub at the 12 o'clock position. It should move freely. In case there is no nub, I would suspect that you have a simple clicky type tailcap.





Regards
Thorsten


----------



## BenChiew

Anyone know if a 17500 keep power will fit the 3cell tube?

If not, what are the battery alternatives for rechargeable?


----------



## Billbo

My has the small nub. 

I cleaned evey thing But it is still only 235 and 200 Lumen in my eyes. 

@ BenChiew:

In my 3 Cell my AW 17500 doesn't fit. Because of that I am using a 2 Cell with a 16650 or 17670.


----------



## BenChiew

Thanks Billbo. Do you need to remove the labels of the AW17670 for your 2 cell?


----------



## Billbo

No. 17670 fits nice and smooth. 
16650 will have a little more capacity.


----------



## BenChiew

Yeah thanks. I still have a number of 17670. 

So what are others doing in terms of the 3cell? 3xCR123?


----------



## Redhat703

BenChiew said:


> Yeah thanks. I still have a number of 17670.
> 
> So what are others doing in terms of the 3cell? 3xCR123?


I run the 3-cell with an AW 17670 + dummy cell. Works great.


----------



## BenChiew

Redhat703 said:


> I run the 3-cell with an AW 17670 + dummy cell. Works great.



Do you put the spacer up front or at the back?

Perhaps I can now use the LiPo cells that I have got. Will the M60 take 3 LiPo cells? I think fully charged it is a little over 3.35 each. Anyone tried this?


----------



## Grizzman

Stating that AW 17670 cells will not work in a Charlie isn't completely true. More correct statement is that they might work in a Charlie. I've got two of them, and my first test resulted in one working well and the other one in low mode only.

I was able to move a tailcap from a Bravo to the Charlie and have it also work correctly. Another tailcap requires a lot of tightening force to activate high. Operation seems highly tailcap dependent to me. 

Two 17500s can be longer than three CR123s, so that's another thing to consider. The increased length has also been reported to cause problems.


----------



## Billbo

Has anyone a tip for my high/low switch problem above?


----------



## BenChiew

Grizzman said:


> Stating that AW 17670 cells will not work in a Charlie isn't completely true. More correct statement is that they might work in a Charlie. I've got two of them, and my first test resulted in one working well and the other one in low mode only.
> 
> I was able to move a tailcap from a Bravo to the Charlie and have it also work correctly. Another tailcap requires a lot of tightening force to activate high. Operation seems highly tailcap dependent to me.
> 
> Three 17670s are definitely longer than three CR123s, so that's another thing to consider.



Are the tail caps you tried the same type?
Don't quite understand your last sentence.


----------



## Grizzman

Billbo said:


> Has anyone a tip for my high/low switch problem above?



It sounds defective to me. If the tailcap and threads are clean, I'd personally call Elzetta. 



BenChiew said:


> Are the tail caps you tried the same type?
> Don't quite understand your last sentence.



Yes, they are both high/low tail caps...all that I have.

Wow, I don't blame you for not following that sentence. I've fixed it.


----------



## BenChiew

Grizzman said:


> Two 17500s can be longer than three CR123s, so that's another thing to consider. The increased length has also been reported to cause problems.



I may be wrong but I have always thought a CR123 is a 16340. 3 of them will total 1020mm. 2pcs of 17500 will be shorter. No?

I am aware of the 3xCR123 coming out a little on the Charlie tube.


----------



## Grizzman

Three of my new Surefire CR123s, stacked in a row and measured with insulated calipers, are 101.14 mm long.
Two of my AW 17500s, stacked in a row and measured with insulated calipers, are 101.80 mm long.

I believe the trailing 0 denotes that the cells are cylindrical, with 16 mm being the nominal diameter, and 34 mm being the nominal length.


----------



## Random Dan

I don't see a reason to use a 3-cell if you like li-ion. A 2500mAh Keeppower 16650 in a 2 cell host has more Wh capacity than two 17500s (typically ~1100mAh ea.).


----------



## Grizzman

With a standard head with Malkoff led assembly, Dan's comment makes complete sense. Some people really like the handling nature of a three cell light. I'm one of them. 

When an AVS head is used, dual Li-Ions allow the head to deliver 900 lumens, while a single Li-Ion allows the head to deliver approximately 500. 

16340 cells are in serious need of an update, which is unlikely to happen soon.

I personally use my Charlies as stationary SHTF lights, powered by primaries, with AVS heads attached (flood for indoor use, and spot for outdoor use).


----------



## Redhat703

BenChiew said:


> Do you put the spacer up front or at the back?
> 
> Perhaps I can now use the LiPo cells that I have got. Will the M60 take 3 LiPo cells? I think fully charged it is a little over 3.35 each. Anyone tried this?



I put it in front toward the head.


----------



## BenChiew

Random Dan said:


> I don't see a reason to use a 3-cell if you like li-ion. A 2500mAh Keeppower 16650 in a 2 cell host has more Wh capacity than two 17500s (typically ~1100mAh ea.).



The additional capacity on a single Li Ion may not work out to be the quantum as you think since a higher voltage will be drawing less and is more efficient. Especially in a Malkoff M60/M61 setup, I think below 3.8v it will fall out of regulation. After all it was designed to run on 6 volts thus making it more efficient at higher voltage.



Redhat703 said:


> I put it in front toward the head.



I will try it.


----------



## Billbo

Grizzman said:


> It sounds defective to me. If the tailcap and threads are clean, I'd personally call Elzetta./QUOTE]
> 
> Could someone post a beamshot:
> 
> M60 on low and on high.


----------



## Grizzman

Twl is correct, the low should be around 15 lumens, depending on the cells used.

I can try to post beam shots this evening.


----------



## BenChiew

Grizzman. Thanks for the information. I will try it out when I get the light.


----------



## pjandyho

Billbo, please don't waste your time and just call Elzetta. The high is definitely many times brighter than the low and you most likely have a defective tail cap. Who knows? Elzetta might just send you a replacement tail cap immediately. So yes, call Elzetta now.


----------



## RI Chevy

Billbo said:


> Has anyone a tip for my high/low switch problem above?



I would try and clean the tailcap and then lubricate it first. I heard of a few others that had to lubricate their switches to get them to work due to sitting for so long. I would use a little _*Superlube*_ if you have it. Lube the little pressure switch as it may be stuck in the "high" position.

If you have no luck with that, then I would contact Elzetta.


----------



## Billbo

Strange ... With a 16650 instead of 2x CR123 the low mode is a step lower but I don't think it is 15 lumen. Maybe 100 or 120 Lumen - compared to other lights.


----------



## Slumber

Billbo said:


> Strange ... With a 16650 instead of 2x CR123 the low mode is a step lower but I don't think it is 15 lumen. Maybe 100 or 120 Lumen - compared to other lights.



Any chance you have the High/Low tail cap made for the Alpha? I think the the one made specifically for the Alpha uses a different resistor than the one meant for the Bravo and Charlie. 

BTW, with a proper working high/low tail-cap , it's normal to get reduced output in low with a single LiIon vs two primaries.


----------



## Grizzman

Slumber may be onto something. An M60 fed from an 18650, set to low via a Brave tailcap gives me roughly 76 lux at 1 meter, while an Alpha tailcap gives me roughly 776 lux.

Alpha tailcaps are labeld as such by the switch boot. No matter what is causing the issue, a call to Elzetta is still wise. You may simply be interpreting the output incorrectly since the optic produces a rather unique beam profile.


----------



## RI Chevy

If the ElZetta is one from this recent sales flurry from Amazon, then I seriously doubt that it is an Alpha tail cap. It seems all of these lights from Amazon have been sitting idle on a shelf for some time, maybe a few years or so. I recently picked up a 2 cell, crenelated bezel, flood lens, click tail cap. It looked as if it were put through the ringer while still inside the package. But I took it out of the package, cleaned it up and wiped it off, and it works flawlessly so far.


----------



## Slumber

RI Chevy said:


> If the ElZetta is one from this recent sales flurry from Amazon, then I seriously doubt that it is an Alpha tail cap. It seems all of these lights from Amazon have been sitting idle on a shelf for some time, maybe a few years or so. I recently picked up a 2 cell, crenelated bezel, flood lens, click tail cap. It looked as if it were put through the ringer while still inside the package. But I took it out of the package, cleaned it up and wiped it off, and it works flawlessly so far.



He said he ordered the tail cap from Elzetta.


----------



## Kid9P

Billbo said:


> Has anyone a tip for my high/low switch problem above?



Hey Billbo,

I was lucky enough to have Amazon replace mine. 

I also cleaned the threads on the body and tailcap, plus lubed them as well.
Only got high, no low. 

If you did purchase from Amazon, try and return it. They have a great return policy.


----------



## RI Chevy

Slumber Pass said:


> He said he ordered the tail cap from Elzetta.



Sorry. I did not catch that the first time around.


----------



## Billbo

Only problem is that I live in Germany. For this tailcap I had to drive to the custom service office und pay taxes and fees. 

Hope a cleaning and lubing will fix it. Otherwise I will call or mail Elzetta.


----------



## Redhat703

It looks like either the little tip of the lo function or the resistor is shorted somewhere. You can use the ohm meter to check the resistance between the lo tip and the metal base. If you have a very low resistance, try to clean the tip. If it does not help, take out the gut and measure the resistor. In the worst case, you might have to replace the resistor (not that difficult).
Good luck.


----------



## Xacto

RI Chevy said:


> [...] I recently picked up a 2 cell, crenelated bezel, flood lens, click tail cap. It looked as if it were put through the ringer while still inside the package. .



If you refer to the yellow color scrubbed from the cardboard insert onto the flashlight body - I always thought that this only happens on transatlantic mail routes ;-)

But ever since I got my first Elzetta Stealth, I added to the following order zu keep the cardboard separate - saves me cleaning time.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## RI Chevy

Xacto said:


> If you refer to the yellow color scrubbed from the cardboard insert onto the flashlight body - I always thought that this only happens on transatlantic mail routes ;-)
> 
> But ever since I got my first Elzetta Stealth, I added to the following order zu keep the cardboard separate - saves me cleaning time.
> 
> Cheers
> Thorsten



Ahhhhhh. I did not even think of that. It rubbed off easily, and it was yellowish in color. Thanks for the info!


----------



## 880arm

That's been my experience too. The cardboard has left some type of residue on all of mine but it cleans off easily enough.


----------



## bigchelis

Hi all,
I have on order an Elzetta 3 Cell with M60 tight beam coming my way.


I want to use Ultrafire 17500's. I ready this thread and seems the AW 17500 are a bit long. Maybe unprotected 17500's is the way to go.

best,
bigC


----------



## Airmanb

I got my Elzetta 2 cell in the mail today! I'm in love.. this thing is so solid and very bright for 235 lumens.


----------



## Billbo

marinemaster said:


> SF = no 18650 support
> Elzetta = no 18650 support
> I'll pass



You don't understand the reasons for no li ion batteries in tactical lamps.


----------



## Kaban

Billbo said:


> You don't understand the reasons for no li ion batteries in tactical lamps.


I am curious, what are the reasons?


----------



## pjandyho

Kaban said:


> I am curious, what are the reasons?


I think it is stability issues. Primary lithiums can withstand higher temperature differences.


----------



## Billbo

pjandyho said:


> I think it is stability issues. Primary lithiums can withstand higher temperature differences.



- withstand higher temperature differences
- more shock/recoil stability
- you can't forget to load them (important for a planed mission)
- no chance for an explosion - good CR123 are realy safe (even if there are 2-3 cells in a row)





Billbo said:


> I have a question about the high/low switch.
> 
> I ordered one from Elzetta and tried it at home. But there wasn't a noticeable change of the Output. Only while pointing the light on a wall direct in front of me the beam seems to be a little bit weaker.
> I buyed it to use the low during writing something in duty. But this low isnt't ideal for that.
> Is this normal?



*Elzetta Service answered:*

They told me to send the tailcap to them for repairing/replacing.

This will cost me again up to 15 USD shipping.
And if you return the tailcap I have to pay again fees & taxes at our custom service (if value on custom declaration above 20 USD). 


All in all I have to wait again up to 6-10 weeks until I have a working one for duty.
Not realy satisfying for me.


----------



## BenChiew

Weapon mounted lights are only made to use primary. 18650 will give up on the recoils.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

I bought one of those elzetta's from amazon, well I bought it from Doc who offerd one of them up for the same price he paid (awesome guy), and I have a question regarding the tailcap. I have a high/strobe tailcap, when I turn it to strobe the output decreases and the strobe sometimes doesn't work, it will just be a little lower output or kinda trips out blinking (but not strobing). 
Doesn't really bother me since I don't use it, just use high, but if it's an easy fix then why not. Anybody know if I need to clean a specific part or something?

And also ordered a bored Charlie with AVS head from oveready since I really dig how the light feels!


----------



## BenChiew

Try cleaning the rim of the body. It might be the little nipple breaking contact with the rim due to excess lube.


----------



## Eric242

Billbo said:


> This will cost me again up to 15 USD shipping.


Just send it as an Einschreiben in a padded envelope. 3,45€ postage + 2,15€ for Einschreiben. 



Billbo said:


> And if you return the tailcap I have to pay again fees & taxes at our custom service (if value on custom declaration above 20 USD).


That´s actually not the case. But you´ll have to get in touch with your local customs before your send the tailcap back to elzetta. You´ll get some forms there and when you get the new tailcap back, you´d only have to pay customs for the repair which in your case will be free (ie no customs). I know it´s still a hassel but you don´t have to pay customs again.

Eric


----------



## Billbo

Thanks Eric for the hints & tips!

Think I have to get my *** to the customs service [emoji14]


----------



## Greenbean

Can someone answer a quick question for me, 

I am getting a 2 cell body and high/Low switch soon, and have to source a head/bezel for myself. I like the normal and the crenelated. I think i like the crenelated best but am curious if there are shadows in the beam that are badly noticeable. If they are slight it's no big deal. 

Reason I ask is I have 3 or 4 different Malkoff Drop ins I want to try in this light and am looking forward to the high/low modes. 
If the shadows from the points on the crenelated bezel aren't to bad I may build a 3 cell around my M91AW I love so much...


----------



## RI Chevy

I have both the regular and crenelated bezels, and I do not see any issues or shadows with the beams. You should be fine with either one.


----------



## Low_Speed

I have a crenelated Bravo and have noticed no shadow from the points.


----------



## Grizzman

The shadow caused by the crenelated bezel only affect the out-most periphery of the beam. This is only noticeable when the light is used very closely to a wall....not something likely to occur naturally.

I also prefer the crenelated version over the standard bezel. I recently received a low profile bezel, but haven't used it yet, except for a brief around the house test. I've got nothing to do this evening, so I'll compare them directly.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

When you point it 10cm from a wall you will notice the crenelated bezel in the beam but otherwise you won't see it at all.


----------



## Greenbean

Thanks guys, 

I am about to get a bezel from the Elzetta site,


----------



## Grizzman

Greenbean said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> I am about to get a bezel from the Elzetta site,



While you're there, check out their AVS heads. :devil:


----------



## Greenbean

Grizzman said:


> While you're there, check out their AVS heads. :devil:



Lol... Oh I want to real bad but am technically still an unemployed full-time student...

I love the idea of Auto Voltage Sensing and an XM-L2 with switchable optics... Can't wait to get my hands on a Charlie with AVS head on it soon enough...

BTW, FWIW I ended up scoring two bezels, Reg and Cren for 15.00 each from this site. I have never shopped here but they had the bezels on clearance. Here is the link if anyone is interested. 

http://www.woodandmetal.com/category/clearance?page=3


----------



## chazz

Finally got an Elzetta light, a zfl-m60.  

I did read most of this thread, but its been a while ago, so if this was covered already sorry...

So far I really like the light, but one thing that seems a little iffy when everything else about it seems fairly impressive, is the tailcap only screwing on with about 3 threads, while the body has 5-6 threads available. Most of my other lights engage more threads, is there a logical reason why these do not?

Maybe I am the only one that worries about such things, I suppose the lights have been out long enough that if this was going to be a problem it likely would have been changed already. Are the new Charlie and Bravos the same way? 

I am curious what the general opinion is on the matter?? Is everyone ok with it, or do others wish it had at least 1-2 more threads? For one, having more threads in the tailcap would make it easier to put it on, as it is you have to kinda push somewhat hard to get it started (to compress springs) which means you have to be more careful not to cross thread it (vs other lights).


----------



## thedoc007

chazz said:


> Maybe I am the only one that worries about such things, I suppose the lights have been out long enough that if this was going to be a problem it likely would have been changed already.
> 
> I am curious what the general opinion is on the matter?? Is everyone ok with it, or do others wish it had at least 1-2 more threads? For one, having more threads in the tailcap would make it easier to put it on, as it is you have to kinda push somewhat hard to get it started (to compress springs) which means you have to be more careful not to cross thread it (vs other lights).



I have a couple Elzettas (both ZFL-M60) and I definitely did notice that there are fewer threads than typical. I haven't found any drawbacks to it, though. It stays secure, it is easy to remove and replace the tailcap, and clearly Elzettas are water resistant to any reasonable standard. Kinda like double O-rings, I guess. They just aren't necessary if the light is built correctly in the first place, and Elzettas clearly are built to a high standard. Certainly it does not worry me, but I am still curious to know if anyone has a good explanation for the design choice.


----------



## Rafael Jimenez

Need advice for a 3 cell ZFL-M60-LF3R

I will not use it for weapons or tactical situations.

What rechargeable batteries can I use?
What output and runtime can I expect?

Thanks.


----------



## Greenbean

Hmm, I am no expert but if it was my light I'd start with a 16650 and a CR123 spacer. 

For run time estimates you would have to dig and see mAh draws and divide that into the mAh rating of the 16650 cell.


----------



## Greenbean

So if you install an M61 in an Elzetta head and tighten it down on the body, can you remove the red o-ring at the body to help the bezel tighten down all the way on the body? 

Just curious how you guys are dealing with the gap between the body and bezel. Could just be my OCD lol...


----------



## Grizzman

Greenbean said:


> So if you install an M61 in an Elzetta head and tighten it down on the body, can you remove the red o-ring at the body to help the bezel tighten down all the way on the body?
> 
> Just curious how you guys are dealing with the gap between the body and bezel. Could just be my OCD lol...



Nope. The o-ring sits in a recess at the front edge of the body, and its removal does not allow the head to screw any further onto the body.

The tiny gap that my Elzettas exhibit doesn't bother me one bit. They're tools, not pieces of jewelry.


----------



## Greenbean

I agree, they are tools. I don't collect a thing, lol...

Just curious as I put my M91A in my recently acquired Elzetta 3-cell and was curious. 

I did however try putting the newer style Malkoff gasket under the lens and then removed the one in the bezel, 

Helped a little. Hahaha


----------



## Grizzman

Greenbean said:


> I did however try putting the newer style Malkoff gasket under the lens and then removed the one in the bezel,



You put a new (flat?) Malkoff gasket in place of the round Elzetta o-ring, between the lens and head front surface?

I just put an M91AW onto a ZFL-M60 body in a standard head, and the body/head gap is definitely greater than what is created by M61s. 

I performed the change I mentioned above, and didn't realize a change in the gap size. I was even using a Sapphire lens that is thinner than the Malkoff Acrylic lens. Odd.....

I will be buying a couple of the new gaskets with my next order.


----------



## Greenbean

Yeah, when I asked about the difference in head spacing from the reflector being just a tad deeper in some newer M61s I have Gene commented that he had new gaskets to take care of that. So I called and he mentioned a smaller gasket that actually goes inside the M61 reflector perimeter then you install the lens and then the outer gasket and Then into the Malkoff head unit. I just removed the small o-ring inside the Elzetta head and installed this smaller gasket under the lens and put it inside the Elzetta head like that. 

Where did you source your Sapphire lenses? OVEREADY?

If you look close the lower two have the reflector sitting just a tad deeper into the brass, if you just drop the lens in and 
install them into a Malkoff head the lens rattles. Hence the newer gasket sequence.


----------



## Grizzman

Thanks for the photos. They clearly show how the new gasket operates. My experiences with SHOs and M91 has been the opposite as yours, so the new gasket will be of no current benefit, unless my in-transit drop-ins are like yours. 

I purchased the Sapphire Crystal Lens from The Sandwich Shoppe. I'll forward a link via PM.


----------



## Greenbean

Your welcome, and thanks!


----------



## ForrestChump

Anyone have an Alpha they have been beating around for awhile?

How are you liking it? I like the light and love me some data.


----------



## mckeand13

I got my first Elzetta a while ago and I would say overall I'm pretty happy with it. There are some details that I don't quite understand and wish were different though.

The body has the usual threading for the tailcap similar to any other Surefire, Malkoff, etc. Elzetta for some reason has decided to remove a large portion of the threads inside the hi/low tailcap and it leaves more than half of the threads unused. Why would somebody do that? It just shares the spring force across fewer threads leading to increased wear. I just don't get it. The tailcap threads also had a nice gritty nasty feeling. Certainly not cool for something that costs as much as they do. It's not hard, but they certainly aren't the easiest light to put the tailcap on either since you have additional spring force to overcome before the threads start. Just plain wrong in my opinion. 

Elzetta, can you hear me? Please leave more threads in the tailcap! Relieve just enough for the o-ring and call it done.

These lights are labelled as durable, indestructible but I would think more thread engagement would lead to a tougher, longer lasting product.

/end rant


----------



## Greenbean

Well, I'm still evaluating mine. I'm running a 3 cell and have a bezel coming to try out a 2 cell. My verdict is high but I'm still using day to day to see. 

Honestly the only reason I can see for the limited threads in the tail is because three out of the four tail caps offered have to be manipulated to achieve either of the two modes in question. The more threads the harder this is to do with one hand. Which I have seen them advertise though. 

More to follow!


----------



## Slumber

The thread grittiness does go away with use. It also helps if you clean off the grease they come with (molykote?) and use some super lube or nyogel.


----------



## mckeand13

Slumber Pass said:


> The thread grittiness does go away with use. It also helps if you clean off the grease they come with (molykote?) and use some super lube or nyogel.



Yep, I cleaned the threads off with brake clean and relubed them. Given the category of light we're talking about I just felt like I shouldn't have to be doing that right out out of the box. I've never had to clean the threads on a brand new light from Surefire, Fenix, Armytek, Malkoff, etc.

I'm wondering why they don't just anodize the threads. That would prevent the aluminum from grinding and making a grey paste out of the grease. That issue isn't specific to just Elzetta, but any light that has bare threads.


----------



## Greenbean

I need to get me some more Nylogel and do that to my Elzetta bodies and caps. 

Thanks for the reminder!


----------



## Greenbean

Anyone ever try Nanolube? 

I have some I use on knife pivots and such, haven't tried yet on threads.


----------



## DAN92

Greenbean said:


> I need to get me some more Nylogel and do that to my Elzetta bodies and caps.


This is a good thing, I use Nyogel 760 to the threads of my lights.


----------



## Grizzman

Greenbean said:


> Anyone ever try Nanolube?



I've got some Nano-Oil that came with an Alpha. I'm sure one of my Elzettas has threads in need of cleaning. I'll see how well it works.


----------



## Greenbean

I may try some some Shin-Etsu grease we used at a Honda/Acura dealer I worked at for a while. It basically is a white paste like grease that is used on all rubber trim parts for the NSX and S-2000 roofs and such. Works great on my o-rings but I haven't tried it on the threads yet.


----------



## ForrestChump

.......


----------



## Grizzman

I cleaned two Charlies and lubed one with Nano-Oil, and the other with Nyogel 760G. I could tell no difference between the two lubes.

I'll try to use both of them equally, and will report back in a few weeks.

I have no idea why Elzetta chose their lube. The first thing I do when receiving one is remove it.


----------



## Low_Speed

So I've been watching this thread for awhile and have a question. Elzetta puts lube on the threads so why remove it? Is it because it doesn't work or is it because you all have a preference when it comes to lube? My Elzetta lights seem to be just fine. I have a Four Sevens light that I've had issues with to the point that I carry an Alpha as a backup. Someone suggested that cleaning the threads and lubing the threads may help. Also, are you able to buy Nano-oil or Nyogel 760G locally?


----------



## Grizzman

Elzetta's lube seems to give threads a gritty feeling, although I'm certain it performs the required function adequately. I personally use NyoGel 760G for threads and 779ZC for o-rings. 

Bare aluminum begins oxidizing as soon as it contacts the atmosphere, so replacing the lube is a question of when, so I just do it immediately. 

I buy NyoGel through the Internet, just like most other specialty items. Most online stores that sell lights and batteries sell it also.


----------



## DAN92

Grizzman said:


> Elzetta's lube seems to give threads a gritty feeling, although I'm certain it performs the required function adequately. I personally use NyoGel 760G for threads and 779ZC for o-rings.


You can use the Nyogel 760G only, it also lubricates the O-rings.


----------



## Grizzman

DAN92 said:


> You can use the Nyogel 760G only, it also lubricates the O-rings.



.....and i bet 779 would work well enough on threads.

I bought tubes of both years ago based off the lube thread. I've got it, so I'll keep using it, but it's unlikely I will buy more 779 after I run out.


----------



## ForrestChump

*......*


----------



## Low_Speed

I have FrogLube. Never thought about it as light lubricant though.


----------



## ForrestChump

Clean everything, take the o-rings off and coat it on with a q-tip on the orings, with almost nothing left, swab whats leftover on the threads.

On my E1DL I see nothing but spotless, smooth operating threads with no grime, and perfectly coated o-rings. I think this may be the "perfect" knife & light lube.....


And in the spirit of staying on topic I would recommend ELZETTA users to try it out if they are not happy with their current lube.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

I think the max lumen for a 2 CR123 Bravo is 650(?) - I get confused with their model number scheme, but the B333 is one of the Bravos that I was looking at that has 650. Could Elzetta increase this to near 800-1000?

^^ Sticking with 2 CR123 - I am not into rechargables (yet?).


----------



## Lord Bear

GeoBruin said:


> Wait, are you sure about that? Don't get me wrong, I love that interface as well... I spent plenty of time tracking down an Mce2s for an e series build, but had no idea the Elzetta cap would do it. I thought Surefire put the kabash on anyone else using that interface?
> 
> Edit: I'm dumb. I just re-read your post. You said click for low then push further for high, not momentary low then push further for momentary high. In other words, if I just mash the switch from off then let off, it will give me momentary high but then return to low if it's on the low setting. Is that right?


There is indeed a "hidden" mode. I have 4 hi/lo Elzetta lights. You have to get it "just right", somewhere in between the hi and lo rotation positioning(?). Works with AVS, M61, and M60. LOL when it first happened I thought I'd gotten a defective. Now I can reliably have the switch come on low with push momentary. Push further to click on low from there, release. Light is now on constant low. From there push momentary for high. Release and you go back to low! I only have 2-cell Elzettas so I don't know if this works with Charlie models.
edit It's not tactical reliable as Elzetta stresses by the way. One must be careful so that inadvertent rotation of tailcap doesn't disable this function. Perhaps "hidden mode" is going too far. In any case I enjoy this.


----------



## mckeand13

Lord Bear said:


> There is indeed a "hidden" mode. I have 4 hi/lo Elzetta lights. You have to get it "just right", somewhere in between the hi and lo rotation positioning(?). Works with AVS, M61, and M60. LOL when it first happened I thought I'd gotten a defective. Now I can reliably have the switch come on low with push momentary. Push further to click on low from there, release. Light is now on constant low. From there push momentary for high. Release and you go back to low! I only have 2-cell Elzettas so I don't know if this works with Charlie models.
> edit It's not tactical reliable as Elzetta stresses by the way. One must be careful so that inadvertent rotation of tailcap doesn't disable this function. Perhaps "hidden mode" is going too far. In any case I enjoy this.



I wouldn't really call it a "mode" or "feature". You're just taking up the slop in the tailcap threads by pushing on it. Of course, as you've discovered, it has to be in exactly the right position for this to happen, and it certainly couldn't be counted on for consistency.


----------



## mckeand13

I don't see much for comments/reviews/info on the Alpha. Nobody has one in their lineup?


----------



## Grizzman

mckeand13 said:


> I don't see much for comments/reviews/info on the Alpha. Nobody has one in their lineup?



The Alpha doesn't seem quite as popular as its bigger brothers, but it hasn't been completely ignored here. Mine is currently resting within reach on my end table....next to a Charlie.


----------



## ForrestChump

mckeand13 said:


> I don't see much for comments/reviews/info on the Alpha. Nobody has one in their lineup?




Doesn't seem so, I've enquired before for more feedback. There is an excellent review here though:

http://flashlightguide.com/2014/07/review-elzetta-alpha-modular-flashlight/


----------



## Welding Rod

I have an Alpha. I bought it to replace my E1B that had a broken lens. My previous E1B also suffered a broken lens, plus the tail cap boot wore through.

Any how the Alpha appears to be a very well made light. The beam IMO is superior to the E1B with a more diffuse light pattern, and it is a natural color that makes colors significantly more true. The head looks tough as hell, I can't imagine breaking the lens. That was one of the main reasons I bought it.

Another advantage I noticed over my E1Bs is my E1Bs go to zero output without much warning. The Alpha drops down at the end of battery life more slowly.

The downsides... The low beam out put is lower than I would like. It is fine for reading or doing paper work, but it is lower than I would like for tasks likely walking or using for a work light. For me, an optimum low out put would be about 30 -50 lumens. Also, the optional pocket clip is poorly designed. It is vastly inferior in function to the clip on the E1B... although the clip on my last E1B did loose up where it fits into the flash light body but it still works fine.

As much as I like the Alpha better than the E1Bs I carried for several years, the poor pocket clip design has relegated the light to glove box duty. The light couldn't be clipped in the pocket with one hand, and the once it was clipped in place it wasn't too secure and also rode rather high in pocket. I found I couldn't take having the light just bounce around in my pocket with my keys after about a week of trying. It was uncomfortable and hard to retrieve. I tried attaching a Surefire lanyard, which fit fine, so I could could jerk it out of my pocket with that, but after a week or so I gave up on that too.

After giving up on the idea of carrying the Alpha in my pocket like I did my E1Bs, I ended up buying an Elzetta Charlie for every day carry as I already had a nice Surefire leather holster made for a P90 I could use to carry it on my belt. That has been working great as the low beam output on the Charlie is very useful, and the high is of course pretty crazy bright at 900 lumens.


----------



## Grizzman

Check out the Prometheus Titanium clip. I can easily insert it into my front pocket with one hand, and don't even need to pinch the clip and pull it away from the light....it simply slides right in. It's also never fallen out of my pocket.


----------



## Welding Rod

Hey thanks that looks great! Probably just what I need.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

I am so glad the bargin Elzettas are making their rounds now. I finally got a 3-Cell. It is a great light, F&F is a little rougher than some of my other lights, but not horribly so. I sort of wish it were clicky. The momentary switch doesn't have the same feel as the SF ones, but it isn't unusable.

What the marketing fails to mention is how compact they are. With all of the "Hard use" videos, I always assumed they were huge things, but here is my new one next to my C3, D3, 9P and MD3.


----------



## Billbo

I just bought a 2-Cell variant with a Malkoff M61 and want to use it with the Mallkoff lens kit. 

Is it normal that I cannot screw the head all the way down with the size 16 o-ring (little one in front of the dropin) and gasket installed in the head?

Filled the gap with an o-ring.


----------



## Grizzman

fresh eddie fresh said:


> It is a great light, F&F is a little rougher than some of my other lights, but not horribly so.



If the lights with superior F&F are tactical, I'd love to hear what they are. 

My Surefire P, Z, and Cs don't qualify. Malkoff's anodizing isn't close to being as consistent as Elzetta's.


----------



## Slumber

Billbo said:


> I just bought a 2-Cell variant with a Malkoff M61 and want to use it with the Mallkoff lens kit.
> 
> Is it normal that I cannot screw the head all the way down with the size 16 o-ring (little one in front of the dropin) and gasket installed in the head?
> 
> Filled the gap with an o-ring.



Billbo, I've read that the gasket isn't necessary. The o-ring alone will suffice. This will reduce the gap and increase the spill beam as the reflector isn't as far from the bezel opening. The gasket is for use with an MD2.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

Grizzman said:


> If the lights with superior F&F are tactical, I'd love to hear what they are.
> 
> My Surefire P, Z, and Cs don't qualify. Malkoff's anodizing isn't close to being as consistent as Elzetta's.



The reason I mentioned that is because I got the rotary tailcap version, and it is gritty to turn despite having an excess of lube on the threads. My Surefire and Malkoff lights turn much smoother, although I have to admit some Malkoffs turn easier than others. I am not sure if that is because some are more broken in than others, or because of imperfect tolerances. The finish on my Elzetta is sort of chalky in some spots (you can really see it where the detail is in the head,) but in all honesty, the quality of the finish is never really something I consider most of the time, and it will probably wear a little more even with use. Maybe I just got a bad Elzetta, or 50 exceptional Surefires and a dozen exceptional Malkoffs, but that is my personal experience with these lights.

I do not consider anything I own as being "tactical" so I can't speak for how this light (or any other light) might perform in whatever role that may indicate. I do really like that it is more compact, and the bezel doesn't cut off the spill (I got the M60F version) like it does in my MDs, but in use (so far) I vastly prefer a Surefire 9P. That being said, we are all different, and have different needs and preferences, which is a really good thing. That means more lights for us all to choose from!


----------



## inetdog

Did you try fully cleaning both mating parts before re lubing?
All the added lube in the world will not help if there are particles in the threads.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

inetdog said:


> Did you try fully cleaning both mating parts before re lubing?
> All the added lube in the world will not help if there are particles in the threads.



That is a good idea. I cleaned off the excess lube and started using it.... it really isn't a deal breaker for me, just something I noticed. I'm just now figuring out where the sweet spot is for the momentary switch. An eighth of a turn in any direction really makes a difference in the response of the button.


----------



## spike3rd

I just wanted to thank everyone here for all the info on Elzettas. I'm close to buying one - I'm just being indecisive about the options. Thanks for a great forum!


----------



## Billbo

Slumber Pass said:


> Billbo, I've read that the gasket isn't necessary. The o-ring alone will suffice. This will reduce the gap and increase the spill beam as the reflector isn't as far from the bezel opening. The gasket is for use with an MD2.



Thanks dude.
Will try this variant. 

It is water resistence with the little o-ring?


----------



## Grizzman

While I don't consider removal of fine tool marks as part of the official finishing process, it is a quality to which my P, C, and Z series lights do not approach perfection. 

Grab a 9P and run your fingernail from front to back along the smooth sections of the body between the knurling and the head and tail cap. You'll notice that these sections aren't completely smooth, with fine tool marks going around the circumference of the body. They exist to a lesser degree on the smooth surface of the Z44 head. 

Look in the flat sections where the logo, patent, and serial numbers are etched. You'll likely see more circular marks left from the cutterhead. My 9Ps are better in this regard than my 6Ps, with my one Z2 being the worst. My E2L, E2E, and E2Ds exhibit superior machining/polishing/finishing, which should be expected considering their cost compared to P and Z series lights.

It is possible that the thicker Type III anodizing that Elzetta and Malkoff uses covers tooling marks better than the slightly thinner Type II anodizing of Ps and Zs. My C2s seem to be better in this regard.

Luckily these imperfections make absolutely no difference in real world usage, but would not exist on a light of exceptional manufacture.

It is possible that your Elzetta is a poor example. Both the tail cap grittiness and chalkiness may be able to be remedied with a thorough cleaning. I haven't had the opportunity to inspect hundreds of them, but my 5 (plus two extra heads) exhibit no flaws that I've been able to identify, and I expect them to represent the Elzetta norm.


----------



## Grizzman

Billbo said:


> It is water resistence with the little o-ring?



Yes, as long as a lens is used.


----------



## Welding Rod

I have bought 6. 3 Alphas, 1 Bravo, and 2 Charlie's. 3 for gifts and 1 of each variant for me.

Surefires I have owned 6P, 9P (both eventually got Malkoff M61s), e1l, e2l, Lx2 , 2 L4s, M6, M3LT, and 2 e1bs. Plus several weapons lights.

I found the fit and finish equivalent between my Surefires and Elzettas. The black anodizing on my Elzettas is super nice.

For beam spread and color I think the Elzettas are superior to the others in LED form, quite superior actually. Also, the compactness of the 650/900 lumen AVS head is quite impressive to me.

I just wish the Alpha and Bravo had the same low beam output as the Charlie so they would make better general purpose work lights for, in my case, weld inspection.

No regrets on the Elzettas though other than the optional pocket clip is a cheesy design, made of plastic and relying on friction to hold it in place, and it is just about functionally worthless on a Alpha as I stated in a previous post. 

But I have been favorably impressed with the lights themselves and carry them over my Surefire's. The Charlie is a great alternative to the M3LT. It is MUCH easier to carry for about the same output, and IMO with a better beam spread and better color. Plus it costs less and that is even with the optional click style tail cap.


----------



## Billbo

Slumber Pass said:


> Billbo, I've read that the gasket isn't necessary. The o-ring alone will suffice. This will reduce the gap and increase the spill beam as the reflector isn't as far from the bezel opening. The gasket is for use with an MD2.



I was just in contact with Gene Malkoff about another topic. 

His answer: "It can be used either way."


----------



## cbsmith111

Has anyone measured the avs optic to see if it is a standard size?


----------



## 880arm

cbsmith111 said:


> Has anyone measured the avs optic to see if it is a standard size?



IIRC it's about 32mm diameter. I don't know what would qualify as a standard size.


----------



## Grizzman

I've got a spot optic sitting in my spares box (replaced it with a flood optic). It's 31.91 mm wide by 21.87 mm tall.


----------



## cbsmith111

There are certain sizes and types of optics that are readily available. If they happen to be one of these you could buy them to swap out for different beam effects. Elzetta sells lenses in spot, flood, and red for $20. You can buy led optics for a few bucks, but I didn't know if it was a specially produced size or shape. Thanks for the measurement.


----------



## cbsmith111

I have wondered about the lens kit too. I tried mine with a regular drop in and it works fine, but the gap is present because the elzetta is made without the lens clearance because the optic lens is flush with the body of the drop in. Also the opening in the bezel is smaller than the reflector on a normal drop in. I noticed from pictures that a malkoff drop in with reflector seems to have a reflector with a smaller diameter that the body of the drop in. Does it also have a recess for the lens to fit in which would eliminate this gap? Hope that makes sense.


----------



## mc488

I just ordered one from black sheep is there a cheaper way to make it where it accepts larger rechargeable batteries instead of the Cr123a? I see that over ready has a bored body that accepts larger batteries but it's pretty steep considering I already spent 200 on the light. This is for Leo dog watch shift. What are the pros and cons of larger rechargeable battery as opposed to cr123a


----------



## 880arm

mc488 said:


> I just ordered one from black sheep is there a cheaper way to make it where it accepts larger rechargeable batteries instead of the Cr123a? I see that over ready has a bored body that accepts larger batteries but it's pretty steep considering I already spent 200 on the light. This is for Leo dog watch shift. What are the pros and cons of larger rechargeable battery as opposed to cr123a



Congrats on the new light and :welcome:

There are still some rechargeable options you can use with the stock body but they won't provide as much runtime as the larger 18mm cells. I did some testing a while back that you can read about here.

There is no way to make the larger batteries fit without having the body of your light bored to make more room inside. OVEREADY and Precisionworks (here on CPF) both provide that service. Alternatively you could go with something that would fit your stock body.

Which did you get, Bravo or Charlie? Did you also get the AVS (High Output) head?


----------



## Grizzman

cbsmith111 said:


> I noticed from pictures that a malkoff drop in with reflector seems to have a reflector with a smaller diameter that the body of the drop in. Does it also have a recess for the lens to fit in which would eliminate this gap? Hope that makes sense.



This is correct, the reflector is smaller in diameter and shallower than the outer body dimensions. There is a recess into which the lens sits.



mc488 said:


> I just ordered one from black sheep is there a cheaper way to make it where it accepts larger rechargeable batteries instead of the Cr123a? I see that over ready has a bored body that accepts larger batteries but it's pretty steep considering I already spent 200 on the light. This is for Leo dog watch shift. What are the pros and cons of larger rechargeable battery as opposed to cr123a



In addition to selling pre-bored bodies, Oveready will also bore your body. They do these in batches, after a pre-determined number of customers have signed up for the service. The process is 1) Customer adds themselves to the list and waits 2) List fills up 3) Customer ships body to be bored 4) Oveready gathers all bodies for that borebatch and sends off for boring (they don't do the work themselves) 5) Oveready receives the bored bodies back 6) body are shipped back to the owner. I think the price for a 2-cell Elzetta is around $19 plus shipping. The body is away for the process for a couple months, or so. It could be 6 months or more before the next borebatch is ready.

Precisionworks also bores them, but he uses a different process: 1) customer ships body 2) customer waits for Precisionworks to have free time to perform the work, in order of received body 2) Precisionworks bores the bodies himself 3) body is shipped back to the owner. Precisionworks charges around $50 plus shipping, and can have the light for quite a few months if your're not lucky (he had my LX2 for about 6).

If it's a 2-cell body, then 17670 or 16650s can be used with the stock body. You an also use two RCR123.

If it's a 3-cell body, then two 17500s can be used.


----------



## mc488

How much better is the battery life with a bored body or will I be fine with just rechargeable cr123a's? I'm working nights now so need it to last through the shift 


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## RI Chevy

You will get much longer runtimes with a single 18650 3400mAh cell. Just always be aware of your battery voltage.


----------



## Grizzman

Using two RCR123s will keep the drop-in operating in regulation (full brightness) for the entire time the light is used. Once one of the cells reaches the low voltage cut-off, the protection circuit kicks in, and the light turns off. There is no warning......bright output, then no output.

16650s and 18650s run in regulation for a while (till the voltage is reduced to 3.4), then start a long slow decline as voltage to the drop-in declines.

There are currently 31 spots taken in the current Oveready Bore Batch http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...re-Bezel-Tailcap-Options-(P-C-Z-and-M-Series). Approximately 50 spots need to be filled before the batch is executed. I don't expect the batch to be executed for four or more months. This one is taking longer to fill than previous ones.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

So the 2 cell body can fit a 18650 battery after Oveready bores it out...which battery fits in the bored out 3 cell body?

...oh i just went to order an Elzetta...the tail options had 'Click' and 'Hi-Low' (among others), i don't really know anything about Elzetta, so Elzetta's are usually only 1 mode? I selected 'Hi-Low' but didn't submit order yet don't know if i want only 2 modes. Does anyone know what the Low lumen setting would be for a Bravo with AVS floody lens? Thanks


----------



## Grizzman

Three cell ZFL-M60s and Charlies don't benefit as much from boring as the 2 cell siblings. No single Li-Ion battery will work. You can use two 1100 mAh IMR 18490s if you don't want protection circuits to get in the way. Protected 18500s with a capacity of 1500 mAh is another option. While hardly the best option, you can use three 700 mAh IMR 18350s if the drop-in will support them, and you don't have a better option.


----------



## 880arm

BeastFlashlight said:


> So the 2 cell body can fit a 18650 battery after Oveready bores it out...which battery fits in the bored out 3 cell body?



In addition to what Grizz mentioned, I would recommend using 2x18490 IMR cells if you choose to go with a bored Charlie body. They are a little bit shorter than protected 18500s and fit the tube better, in my opinion.



BeastFlashlight said:


> ...oh i just went to order an Elzetta...the tail options had 'Click' and 'Hi-Low' (among others), i don't really know anything about Elzetta, so Elzetta's are usually only 1 mode? I selected 'Hi-Low' but didn't submit order yet don't know if i want only 2 modes. Does anyone know what the Low lumen setting would be for a Bravo with AVS floody lens? Thanks



Elzetta lights are all single mode by default but you can get a second, lower, mode using the High/Low tailcap. With the Bravo and AVS head this would yield around 15 lumens in the lower output mode. Altogether there are 6 switch options for the Elzettas:



Rotary switch - Press and hold for momentary, twist (tighten) for constant-on operation
Click switch - Partial press and hold for momentary, full press (and click) for constant-on operation
High/Low switch - Same as click switch except it also allows a lower output level by twisting (loosening) the tailcap a fraction of a turn
High/Strobe switch - Like the High/Low except it replaces the low mode with a tactical strobe mode at full output
5" Tape switch - Remote switch for weapon mounting with 5" lead
12" Tape switch - Remote switch for weapon mounting with 12" lead


----------



## Grizzman

I just confirmed the 15 lumen output of a floody AVS Bravo. I got identical ceiling bounce measurements with it and an M61N on low driven by two primaries.

My flood head serves SHTF duty by my pistol, so I don't use it often, but it does work very well for indoor and short range outdoor tasks. The evenly dispersed low beam is especially nice. I even prefer it to the Warm M60 and M60 MC-E drop-ins (which is saying a lot).


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Great answers thanks. Unfortunately not my cup of tea so i'll move on...gotta love the help u get in here!


----------



## mc488

Are there good rechargable cr123 you guys recommend for charlie???


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## JohnSmith

All this Elzetta talk has finally got the best of me, and I just ordered my first. I knew it would be one of the bored versions from Oveready with the AVS head. The write-up on these bored versions at Flashlight Guide was very helpful: http://flashlightguide.com/2014/09/oveready-custom-bored-elzetta-bodies/

I thought long and hard about Bravo vs. Charlie, size vs. runtime vs. brightness. I knew I wanted the AVS head, throw optic, standard bezel, and high/low tailcap. I finally decided on the Charlie when I realized it can run on a diverse range of cells:

2x18490 (IMR) for 900 lumens
1x18650 + a 16340 spacer for 500-600 lumens
3xCR123 primary for 900 lumens

I was hung up on having 18650 compatibility with the Bravo, but once I realized one could be used with a spacer in the Charlie the decision was made.


----------



## RI Chevy

You could also use 3 Tenergy lifepo 3v cells, and 2xAA cells as well. Not sure on the brightness level with the 2xAA cells at 3v. You made a nice choice. The tint is very appealing and the light will last many lifetimes. An heirloom. LOL


----------



## Grizzman

I haven't tried my AVS'd Charlie with 2 AAs. I'm rather curious regarding the results, but am not expecting much.

Wow, that's freaking awesome. High is around 80 lumens and low seems to be around 10 lumens from a couple alkaline AAs.

I can determine more accurate lumen figures when it's not almost 1:30 am.


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool! Thanks for doing this for all of us.


----------



## Grizzman

I spent some quality time in my half bath with a light meter and some lights. The Charlie with AVS head, driven by two alkaline AAs with 1.59 resting volts outputs around 150 lumens on high. With the same cells, the low output is around 3 lumens.

I dropped a couple mostly charged Eneloops into it, and it did't output any light. I charged them some, tried again, and got light. Fully charged Eneloops should work, but run time will likely be very short. I've put them back in the charger to top them off.


----------



## JPA261

Ok, this might sound like a stupid question but I'm not familiar with all this engineering stuff. I have an ElzettA Alpha with the rotary tailcap. 

I am wondering if having the rotary tailcap will drain your battery a lot faster compared to a clicky tailcaps if it is in the off mode. I thought I read somewhere where some lights with the rotary switch draws some small amounts of current even if it's off. 

Thanks and I apologize if this is a noob/stupid question


----------



## mckeand13

JPA261 said:


> Ok, this might sound like a stupid question but I'm not familiar with all this engineering stuff. I have an ElzettA Alpha with the rotary tailcap.
> 
> I am wondering if having the rotary tailcap will drain your battery a lot faster compared to a clicky tailcaps if it is in the off mode. I thought I read somewhere where some lights with the rotary switch draws some small amounts of current even if it's off.
> 
> Thanks and I apologize if this is a noob/stupid question



The rotary tailcap will draw zero current when it is "off" or backed out. There are no electronics or anything inside that would consume power. 

Other lights that have an electronic switch do consume a small amount of power when the light is off but it is usually very minimal/negligible. One example would be the Thrunite TN32 but there are many others.


----------



## JPA261

mckeand13 said:


> The rotary tailcap will draw zero current when it is "off" or backed out. There are no electronics or anything inside that would consume power.
> 
> Other lights that have an electronic switch do consume a small amount of power when the light is off but it is usually very minimal/negligible. One example would be the Thrunite TN32 but there are many others.



Thanks so much for the quick reply. This light is one of my backups to my primary and I feel more comfortable to use it now, in case my primary goes down.


----------



## RI Chevy

I am hoping that Elzetta comes out with a red lens that fits the Alpha head. With the high output AVS head, it is just completely overpowering. I think it would be more appropriate for the Alpha light.


----------



## Xacto

I sometimes wonder if there is a sort of "shelf live" to the acrylic lenses of the AVS and Alpha head. While a plain lens like in other lights can be replicated with tools, the acrylic lens is something I doubt can be made household tools. While this may be no problem now, who knows what will be in 10 - 20 years time?
And by comparison - the lens for a 6P from 1995 surely can be cut from clear sheet material.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## GlockGirl

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I looked and didn't see anywhere else. I was shopping for an Elzetta light for my husband and found this - it appears to be an extremely good deal through Amazon, hoping someone here can benefit. I don't think I can post the link, but it's model ZFL-M60-LF3C, the 3 cell flood lens, click tailcap, low profile bezel for $110.


----------



## nmiller

Anyone know of a holster that works with the Alpha?


----------



## Low_Speed

nmiller said:


> Anyone know of a holster that works with the Alpha?



No. I gave up and bought a speed clip.


----------



## nmiller

I'm getting there.


----------



## Grizzman

What kind of holster are you looking for...leather, Kydex/plastic, or nylon?

Check out http://www.thorshammercustomleather.com/flashlight-holsters-pouches. I'm sure he'd be able to come up with a design that would work for the Alpha, since it's not that different in size from the HDS lights for which he has multiple existing holsters.

I've got a Blackhawk Gladius flashlight holder attached to my gun safe, and it fits but is a bit overkill for a little Alpha. I am personally still using a Prometheus Titanium Surefire clip on mine, and it works very well.


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> . . . Check out http://www.thorshammercustomleather.com/flashlight-holsters-pouches. I'm sure he'd be able to come up with a design that would work for the Alpha, since i's not that different in size from the HDS lights for which he has multiple existing holsters. . .



+1

I had Dan make me a holster for my HDS Rotary and it fits the Alpha very well. I thought I posted these photos on here already but now I can't find them :shrug:





It works fine as is but although it could be about 1/4" shorter. You can see here that the tailcap doesn't quite make it to the bottom. Retention is just as good as with the Rotary, if not better.


----------



## RI Chevy

Very nice! I like the extra battery holder as well. Nice work on that.


----------



## nmiller

Nice holster. I will definitely. Check them out. I have a Prometheus clip, but the provided o-ring is too big. It works, but with the two stage tail cap the o-ring is pushed out of the way when in high mode. It's more of an annoyance than anything. I can't seem to find an o-ring that will work.


----------



## neutralwhite

Does elzetta have any cool white LED's in their lights?.
I mean, if I got a host, what LED module is best in it for cool white?.
is 235 Lumen the highest?.
thanks.


----------



## Eric242

Can´t tell you about the best choice for cw but 235 lumen certainly isn´t their highest. The AVS heads go up to 900 lumens.

Eric


----------



## RI Chevy

The M60 drop ins are considered cool. The ZFL model.


----------



## Grizzman

The standard (non-AVS) heads work with all Malkoff drop-ins. The high voltage M91A has the highest output available, at 750 lumens. To achieve long runtime, it requires 3 CR123s or two li-ions.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks Grizz, 

I'm in the UK presently and I'm looking out for some 16340's.
whats best for the Bravo?.

Elzetta's blog mentioned if you do use rechargeables, make them RCR123A?.
i did see some NITECORE RCR on illumn.com site but that's on back order.
anywhere else?. 

thanks again.




Grizzman said:


> The standard (non-AVS) heads work with all Malkoff drop-ins. The high voltage M91A has the highest output available, at 750 lumens. To achieve long runtime, it requires 3 CR123s or two li-ions.


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks, and you need to consider selling me your light in your avatar!. 
they need to do another run of those.
i got into lights after they came out!. 
damn.



RI Chevy said:


> The M60 drop ins are considered cool. The ZFL model.


----------



## Grizzman

The M91As and M61 SHOs draw around 1.5 amps, so aren't a good choice for a Bravo unless 20 minute runtimes are acceptable.

The best cool white choice for the Bravo is the standard power M61. Don't forget about the Nichia 219B option from Illumn. It's not impressively bright, but if I remember correctly, you're a 219 fan.

The M61 runs well from a 16650 (my preference)or 17670, with diminishing output after the cell has been discharged to 3.4 volts. Two IMR 16340s (with no output taper as the cells deplete) will work, but there won't be any way to visually tell when they need to be re-charged. I personally use AW for RCR123s and 16340s.


----------



## neutralwhite

Kind Thanks, 
i saw on one of Elzetta's video blogs that Dave mentioned if you do have to use rechargeables, try to make them RCR123A, but do they for definite have to be RCR, as 

There is of course, also IMR , ICR out there.
i was looking at AW RCR and some Keeppower.

Does it have to really be RCR?.
does it matter?.
i don't want to have the wrong rechargeables in there!.

whats best for more brightness rather than long runtime and of course safe for the light too ?.

i have some USA made lithium energisers for now. 

Thanks!.


----------



## Grizzman

My presumption is that RCRs are recommended since they have an integrated protection circuit to eliminate (or greatly reduce) the possibility to over discharge the cells. If you're careful, then IMR or INR should be completely fine. I use them on a regular basis with M61 and M91 drop-ins with no negative effects.

The use of two 4.2 volt cells will give slightly more output, but I've never been able to detect it visually, even with two drop-ins shining side by on a wall interior wall while looking for a difference.


----------



## RI Chevy

I use 2 x 18500 Sanyo cells in my bored Charlie/3 cell host with both the AVS head and M60 drop in. No issues at all to speak of regarding operation.


----------



## neutralwhite

could I ask this please; 

with the bravo zfl m60 high and strobe, is there momentary on somewhere available on that tailcap set up?.
is it between the high and strobe turn?.
thanks.


----------



## Grizzman

Momentary works with both high and strobe.....same as high/low tailcaps.


----------



## neutralwhite

much thanks, 



Grizzman said:


> Momentary works with both high and strobe.....same as high/low tailcaps.


----------



## Grizzman

In addition to momentary operation, the high/strobe and high/low tailcaps also offer constant operation via the latching switch. The output is determined by the tailcap being either completely tightened against the body or slightly loosened.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks.
i have paid Jason from Prometheus for one of his clips for it too.
I was also looking at a holster from hogo, but I think the clip will do.




Grizzman said:


> In addition to momentary operation, the high/strobe and high/low tailcaps also offer constant operation via the latching switch. The output is determined by the tailcap being either completely tightened against the body or slightly loosened.


----------



## neutralwhite

re the Zfl bravo m60, but what driver is it?.
see quote down below.
i just need brightness more than much runtime.
thanks. 

" IMR should do better than ICR, if your flashlight driver allows. If the regulated current of the driver is within range of what the ICR can give, there will be no advantage to using IMR’s in that light. "


----------



## Grizzman

My M60 light engine only draws 560 mA from two AW ICR RCR123s, so the use of IMR cells won't give an output benefit.

Since the light won't shut off when the cells are depleted and the M60 will still be running in regulation (and providing full output) when they're empty, protected ICR RCR123 is what I would recommend.


----------



## RI Chevy

M60's put out 235 lumens. So your better off with the AVS head.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks so between a 700mAh ICR 16340 and a Nitecore NL166 650 mAh Protected Button Top 16340 ( assuming this ones an ICR which I think it is ), which one to buy?.
i see on illumn, they're on backorder.
Maybe better than keeppower ones.


thanks.


QUOTE=Grizzman;4649537]My M60 light engine only draws 560 mA from two AW ICR RCR123s, so the use of IMR cells won't give an output benefit.

Since the light won't shut off when the cells are depleted and the M60 will still be running in regulation (and providing full output) when they're empty, protected ICR RCR123 is what I would recommend.[/QUOTE]


----------



## neutralwhite

Well, I'm catching the elzetta fever pretty hard, so I just may buy a Charlie with that AVS next!.
Thanks.



RI Chevy said:


> M60's put out 235 lumens. So your better off with the AVS head.


----------



## Grizzman

It's been shown that RCR123s have a real-world capacity of 500-600 mAh (even those labeled as 700 mAh).

The only Li-Co RCR123s I've used have been AWs. I've got a few KeepPower 16650s, and I'd definitely consider them in 16340 size.

The Nitecores should be a good option as well.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks so much grizzman for your great help with me on this!.
Illumn have some keeppower in stock ( $5.99 ), and nitecore are on back order ( $7.99 ).
nitecore must be kinda better maybe then ( backorder and higher cost )?.

Anyway, I've ordered a few nitecore from illumn!, and a surefire clip from Jason at Prometheus.

thanks grizz!. 






Grizzman said:


> It's been shown that RCR123s have a real-world capacity of 500-600 mAh (even those labeled as 700 mAh).
> 
> The only Li-Co RCR123s I've used have been AWs. I've got a few KeepPower 16650s, and I'd definitely consider them in 16340 size.
> 
> The Nitecores should be a good option as well.


----------



## neutralwhite

hi

what elzetta could be a back up to a bravo ZFL m60 high strobe?.
i was considering an alpha standard lens high low cap, not sure on bezel.

is it weird that a 315 lumen light is backing up a 235 light?.
do you have an elzetta to back up your elzetta?.

thanks.


----------



## RI Chevy

The Alpha is a great, sturdy little light! It is a good choice. Light familiarity is paramount for safety.


----------



## Grizzman

The Alpha's light pattern isn't at all like the M60, M61, or any other light I've ever owned. The extreme floodiness makes it work very well for close range tasks, and (naturally) not very well when the range exceeds 20 yards. 

It may be spec'd at 315 lumens, but mine delivers equal lux to my M60 in a small half-bath ceiling bounce test. I use an IMR 16340 in it to get significantly more output.

RI is correct. The Alpha is built to the same standard as other Elzettas, and would make an outstanding backup, as long as the beam's limitations are taken into consideration.


----------



## RI Chevy

Excellent point Grizzman! It is extremely floody. One must be aware of that. Whereas the M60 is a thrower. The 2 lights would compliment each other nicely. One for distance and one for up close.


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks great posts!. 
Is the alpha tint yellow or pure white?.
someone mentioned on YouTube that it's pure white really - in their opinion.
another Video clip on there, it looked warm.
i don't know and I'm pretty sure elzetta doesn't have inconsistincies in LED tint.

So whats the Kelvin K rating?. 
How are yours?.

thanks.


----------



## Grizzman

My example's tint is a nearly exact match for my warm Malkoff M60WF, which if I remember correctly is 3000K. It's quite obviously warmer/rosier than my 3700K M91AW.

It is not at all what I'd consider a pure white, but individuals perceive light in dramatically different ways. 

The floodiness of the Alpha's beam makes the low mode significantly more useful than that of the M60, so the high/low tailcap is a great choice.


----------



## ForrestChump

Im getting an Alpha itch...... Looking for long term reliability feedback. Want to go with Hi / Low clicky. Any issues?

Data appreciated!


----------



## RI Chevy

No issues with my Alpha high/low. I would say my tint is closer to neutral.


----------



## ForrestChump

RI Chevy said:


> No issues with my Alpha high/low. I would say my tint is closer to neutral.



Thank you Sir!

Still open for Alpha feedback.


----------



## Grizzman

I would prefer mine to be more neutral, but it's fine the way it is.

Mine has been perfect so far. The only very slightly negative comment I can make about it is that the Alpha's switch is louder than all of it's bigger siblings (but still more quiet than a McClicky).


----------



## neutralwhite

so does elzetta have a tint lottery too?.




RI Chevy said:


> No issues with my Alpha high/low. I would say my tint is closer to neutral.


----------



## RI Chevy

I doubt it.


----------



## Xacto

I haven't used my Alpha a lot so far, since it is an only-child in my collection so far. I got the regular optic with the strike bezel (and an addition flood lens and smooth bezel).

My second one will surely have the smooth bezel since the strike bezel is pretty pointy, regular lens since it seems to me the most versatile one for that light and of course the High/Low Tailcap.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## RI Chevy

I have the strike bezel on my Bravo and Charlie, but I have the regular bezel on my Alpha, figuring it would be in and out of a pant pocket.


----------



## neutralwhite

that's what I'm thinking. 




RI Chevy said:


> I have the strike bezel on my Bravo and Charlie, but I have the regular bezel on my Alpha, figuring it would be in and out of a pant pocket.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

ForrestChump said:


> Im getting an Alpha itch...... Looking for long term reliability feedback. Want to go with Hi / Low clicky. Any issues?
> 
> Data appreciated!



I ended up on a dark beach with dubious footing this weekend with my M61 HCRI2 equipped Charlie with the high/low tailcap, and low was more than enough light. I cranked it up to high just to see what it could do a couple times, but for lighting my path, low was plenty. I think the high/low Alpha sounds like a good choice for throwing into your pocket.


----------



## Strintguy

Has anyone seen a bored Elzetta Alpha yet? Is it possible ?


----------



## neutralwhite

If the alpha is like the size of a HDS, to get 18650 to fit they made a tube for it, so maybe, maybe not.



Strintguy said:


> Has anyone seen a bored Elzetta Alpha yet? Is it possible ?


----------



## RI Chevy

The bezel end is a machined part of the body. It does not separate into 2 pieces like most lights. The only part you can remove is the tailcap. The bezel is a fixed part of the host, so I think boring it out will be an issue.


----------



## ForrestChump

neutralwhite said:


> so does Elzetta have a tint lottery too?.



I remember several times in their videos they note the competitions "bluish" tint and the poor color rendering. From what I have read here, and seen in the videos they shoot for a more neutral tint. Of course, there will likely be slight variations.


Still open to Alpha feedback! Thanks to all that have commented. Any long term beaters out there?
Anyone have a beam shot vs an HDS? That would be awesome and quite helpful.


----------



## AVService

I really like the Alpha and I have had it on an AR and my Beretta CX4 Storm and it is still good as new,not that that is a lot of abuse really.

I would call it a lot warmer than my standard HDS and maybe more warm than neutral really?
IT IS WARM!

I would try to snag a beamshot but I don't have enough hands?


----------



## ForrestChump

.........


----------



## Grizzman

ForrestChump said:


> Thanks for checking in. Just curious how much more flood for the normal optic vs an HDS.



I'll take a stab at beamshots with the Alpha and a 219B HDS. I'll try with both in the same shot first, but may need to separate them.


----------



## ForrestChump

..........


----------



## Grizzman

The Alpha's crenelated bezel really isn't kind to white wall hunting.

The camera for both shots is set to Daylight white balance, ISO 125, 1/2 second exposure, and f/5.6. The lens to wall distance is 6' 5".

Alpha - 






HDS- 





Alpha at 8' from wall - 






I'm going to add a smooth bezel to my next Elzetta order, though in actual usage, I've never noticed the beam's irregularity.


----------



## neutralwhite

So if it's a lot warmer , is like 3000k considered Tactical?.
I would buy an alpha as a back up to my bravo zfl , but not so sure if I'll get along with that 3000.
I would use the HDS , but i need both lights to operate pretty the same.

thanks.


----------



## Grizzman

It might be one of those human eye/brain perception situations, since the above photos (with fixed white balance) show the Nichia 219B's ~4500K tint to be very similar to the Alpha.

A few minutes ago, I clicked the HDS's button to shut it off after a final comparison...the light stayed on. I clicked it again...the light stayed on. I transferred my full attention to the light, and on the third try, the light went out. This is not acceptable behavior for a tactical light, and the primary reason when a pistol is involved, I'm using a Malkoff MD2 or Elzetta Bravo with "dumb" switches.


----------



## ForrestChump

Thanks Grizz!


So in my super unscientific, probably wildly incorrect guess, it looks like the HDS has ruffly twice the throw?

I know it's a stretch to guess on a single pic @ 6ft, but thats what it's looks like to me.


----------



## Grizzman

Do you want lux numbers? I can use a CR123 or an IMR 16340 to get the most out of the Alpha.

A particular driveway seam to the front of the work bench in my garage is 10 meters.


----------



## neutralwhite

damn , that hds staying on like that is risky!.

But when I think of tactical lights, all I believe in now is elzetta. 


i was about to fire the trigger on an alpha last night!, but stuck on the bezel!.
also, the speed clip or another Prometheus sure fire Ti clip.

thanks...





Grizzman said:


> It might be one of those human eye/brain perception situations, since the above photos (with fixed white balance) show the Nichia 219B's ~4500K tint to be very similar to the Alpha.
> 
> A few minutes ago, I clicked the HDS's button to shut it off after a final comparison...the light stayed on. I clicked it again...the light stayed on. I transferred my full attention to the light, and on the third try, the light went out. This is not acceptable behavior for a tactical light, and the primary reason when a pistol is involved, I'm using a Malkoff MD2 or Elzetta Bravo with "dumb" switches.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> Do you want lux numbers? I can use a CR123 or an IMR 16340 to get the most out of the Alpha.
> 
> A particular driveway seam to the front of the work bench in my garage is 10 meters.




Nah, don't want to bother you. I'll take a best guess on how much difference in throw?.... that be good.

I plan on primaries only.


----------



## Low_Speed

neutralwhite said:


> so does elzetta have a tint lottery too?.



Not that I can tell. All of mine have been the same.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> A few minutes ago, I clicked the HDS's button to shut it off after a final comparison...the light stayed on. I clicked it again...the light stayed on. I transferred my full attention to the light, and on the third try, the light went out. This is not acceptable behavior for a tactical light, and the primary reason when a pistol is involved, I'm using a Malkoff MD2 or Elzetta Bravo with "dumb" switches.




Don't want to OT, but in my VERY limited exposure ( tried it once) and from what I have read on the raised tailcaps you have a little more flex than a flat button. This leads me to believe you have to hit it a bit more parallel when engaging the switch. Also, I noticed Henry has added a white plastic disk inside the button area that seems directly related to the refinement and "every time" click of the button by producing a completely flat / hard surface to the clicker instead of rubber on rubber. I remember _years_ ago there was no disk, I'd check that out first. I also noticed that a VERY light amount of grease was present on the disk. On the outer side, it's what actually makes the disk "stick" to the underside of the button, while the VERY little grease to the actual clicker reduces friction. I'd make sure you're all clean dust wise as well, not that i could see how any could be in there. OOPS - Clicky or Rotary? If it's not any of that I'd shoot Henry a call. There is always a possibility with anything electronic for it to poo poo.

That said, my current flat tail clicky is 1000 out of 1000 correct clicks.


All that said, It's looking like 2 things for the Alpha. There hasn't been any reports of any unhappy / unreliable Alphas, and people don't like to beat them up.


----------



## neutralwhite

I want an elzetta alpha to back up my zfl m60 but still stuck on what bezel and what clip.
i have a fade anodised clip for the zfl. 
hope that is as good or better than the speed clip. looks way better.

also I'm not so sure if I could get along with a 3000k tint if that's what it is. 
Shame the alpha can't have the cqb tint!!.

thanks.


----------



## RI Chevy

Not sure where you're coming up with the 3000K tint on the Alpha? I just compared it against my Malkoff W variant and the tint isn't even close. The Alpha is much whiter. It is also whiter than my Malkoff N variant. Not much whiter than the N, but it is a little whiter. I think you would be very happy with the Alpha. 
As far as chosing the right bezel, just think about what you will be using it for. The crenalated will chew up a pant pocket. If it is for a weapon then you should be fine. I have not tried any clips on my Alpha, so I cannot comment on that.


----------



## Grizzman

There is no doubt that mine is very warm. It's much warmer than my M61N, and I confirmed again that it's a close match to my M60WF. 

I've had the Alpha since last June, so it's possible that newer ones have a cooler tint. 880arm called his, which was received shortly before mine, warm also. In a few days, I'll post the results of the smooth bezel'd one I just ordered.

For Prometheus clip photos, check out post 1002.


----------



## RI Chevy

I will try and post a beamshot if I can later.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks!. 



RI Chevy said:


> I will try and post a beamshot if I can later.


----------



## Grizzman

There is some weirdness going on with the Elzetta order I placed earlier today. As expected, I received an e-mail from Elzetta with a tracking number and a delivery address of my house. What's odd is that I also received a separate e-mail from them that shows a package shipped to a reseller in Texas. 

I looked at product from this vendor on Amazon's website, and also on their dedicated website, but didn't intentionally complete the transaction. Amazon's site was acting slow/odd, so it's possible it may have been in my cart when I performed a one-click purchase of something else. The Elzetta purchase doesn't appear in my Amazon order history. I won't be using that "feature" again.

I might have two new lights to compare to my existing one. :shrug:

I think the HDS not turning off was a mostly due to user error. I think the light stayed on because it interpreted my click attempt as a press and hold instead of a single click. I was already in preset B, which is max output, so nothing visible occurred.


----------



## ForrestChump

^^^^^^


A heads up. Awhile back I did own an Alpha for approximately 5 minutes. Purchased off Amazon. The package was stapled, the light was thrashed. I immediately contacted Elzetta and they said they do not sell Elzetta lights on Amazon, and that being the package was stapled, that was not a good sign and I had made the right choice in returning it. From what I can tell, you are only saving a few bucks on Amazon ( in regards to the Alpha anyway ), and with Elzetta's response, I would only purchase direct from their website in the future. Are there authorized dealers? From my understanding Yes, but Im not entirely sure about the whole selling on Amazon thing as Elzetta did not seem to like that to much at all....

I have had similar issues with other manufactures and Amazon..... YMMV. They had that massive discount Elzetta sell off a few months back, I don't recall any complaints and there were a lot of lights sold.......

:shrug:



In regards to the HDS, I have clicked with user error in a similar fashion, thinking I clicked one way then recalling how I actually did when I got an unexpected result. From what I have read over the last couple years, the consensus on the switches is they have a very, very, low defect rate, but sometimes it is possible to get the clicks messed up. Like I said, I've done it, but it was no shortcoming or defect of the switching mechanism whatsoever. More of an absent minded click. This may or may not be an issue for some, but the switch itself is exceptionally reliable, if not the most reliable I can think of. 



RI Chevy said:


> I will try and post a beamshot if I can later.



The more the merrier!


----------



## Grizzman

The $5 savings wasn't enough to warrant using an unknown dealer through Amazon, so my purchase was directly from Elzetta. While I respect their idea of always offering low prices (well not exactly low) versus discounted sale pricing, it would be nice for them to offer occasional sales for tentative new customers.

I will be able to determine the distance for the Alpha and HDS (or your choice of Malkoff drop-in to keep it in my family) to illuminate my light meter to 5 lux (an arbitrary number) after it gets dark this evening. The meter's on the tripod, so all I have to do is move a car out of the way.

Forest, it does seem a little surprising that you're choosing an Alpha over a Bravo, since you've already got a single cell light (XP-L?) with a similar output and beam pattern.


----------



## ForrestChump

..........


----------



## Grizzman

Here are some photos that RI Chevy took with a white poster board as a background about 2 feet away from the board. He used a fixed 5000K WB.


----------



## RI Chevy

Thank you Grizzman! I am not sure if it made the tints any clearer to understand, but it is the best I could do with my limited skills.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> The $5 savings wasn't enough to warrant using an unknown dealer through Amazon, so my purchase was directly from Elzetta. While I respect their idea of always offering low prices (well not exactly low) versus discounted sale pricing, it would be nice for them to offer occasional sales for tentative new customers.
> 
> I will be able to determine the distance for the Alpha and HDS (or your choice of Malkoff drop-in to keep it in my family) to illuminate my light meter to 5 lux (an arbitrary number) after it gets dark this evening. The meter's on the tripod, so all I have to do is move a car out of the way.
> 
> Forest, it does seem a little surprising that you're choosing an Alpha over a Bravo, since you've already got a single cell light (XP-L?) with a similar output and beam pattern.



Some companies don't do sales HDS ( for the most part ) Elzetta / Muyshondut Mcgizmo..... As a flashlight _buyer_ thats no fun, Id' love an Alpha @ $150 with 15% off.... but I admire the confidence of "we make the best, no sales!" Not that sales are bad, but in some minds they appear to weaken the integrity or the _perception_ of your product. I have worked in sales, and have went this route and in addition to keeping things simple, I was proud enough of what we were selling that a sale felt odd....

I only have long term with the HDS, so HDS vs Alpha that would be awesome! I want the Bravo. But size and weight are always a factor for me as I get outdoors more. I almost died of exposure in Zion Canyon ( really ) trying to go super minimalist. Im now always leaning towards small and compact. Got to make room for water and a better sleeping bag! Very good observation by the way on the Bravo thing. I would love one but I want something I'll have with me.

I find that I almost never EDC 2 cell lights as it's just to cumbersome, some days even the HDS stays home because of weight / space.

( 3.4 OZ HDS on my postal scale VS 3.8 OZ Alpha with Hi/Low tailcap, if anyone is wondering. )


*Also thanks Chevy & Grizz for the photos! *:buddies:


----------



## Grizzman

The Alpha delivered 10 lux (clearly illuminated) on target at a distance of 40 feet. The HDS delivered 10 lux on target at a distance of 50.5 feet. I'm somewhat surprised at how well the Alpha performed, considering the floodiness of the beam.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> The Alpha delivered 10 lux (clearly illuminated) on target at a distance of 40 feet. The HDS delivered 10 lux on target at a distance of 50.5 feet. I'm somewhat surprised at how well the Alpha performed, considering the floodiness of the beam.




Whaaaaaaa?

Wow, I am as well. Apologies if you already said, but what HDS Model? It looks like what I have and what I have coming are a lot closer than I thought.

This must be one of those perception / magic elves / led things that is going on here. Obviously, I suspect the more narrow beam makes you perceive the hotspot as much brighter...vs the Alpha that has a similar throw, but due to the edgeless beam, it would likely be perceived as less bright.

Or something like that. :tired:


Visually, is that matching up?

I was looking at pics that show the Alpha vs the HDS 219, with the 219 having noticeably more throw. In person Im sure it's less pronounced.


----------



## Grizzman

It's a 170 lumen version with the Nichia 219B emitter. Your presumption regarding the optic's lack of bright central spot surrounded by dim spill making the spot appear less bright/pronounced seems legit to me.

When I finished up the test, I measured the voltage of the Battery Station cell used in the Alpha, and it was in the area of 3.05 volts resting. It's very likely that if I popped a new cell in it and did the test again now, it would probably reach 10 lux at closer to 43 or 45 feet.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> When I finished up the test, I measured the voltage of the Battery Station cell used in the Alpha, and it was in the area of 3.05 volts resting. It's very likely that if I popped a new cell in it and did the test again now, it would probably reach 10 lux at closer to 43 or 45 feet.




Now your just teasing me. 

Thank you for your efforts.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> It's a 170 lumen version with the Nichia 219B emitter.




Wait..... I misunderstood. I was thinking you were telling me what I was looking at in the pictures. ( Im off tonight ) :duh2:

You got a 170 219 and your getting this kind of data!?

Thats really nutty.... wow.


----------



## Grizzman

Yes, the data above was gathered from a 170 lumen 219B Clicky at max output fed from an AW RCR123.


----------



## ForrestChump

............


----------



## ForrestChump

............


----------



## Slumber

Congratulations......I look forward to your insights Forrest.


----------



## pjandyho

ForrestChump said:


> Elzetta Alpha inbound!
> 
> Will try and give back to the thread a little, perhaps some HDS 325 vs Elzetta Alpha beam shots? 2 killer lights. 2 very different lights.... Stay tuned!


That would be great Forrest!


----------



## neutralwhite

im staying tuned!. thanks.




ForrestChump said:


> Elzetta Alpha inbound!
> 
> Will try and give back to the thread a little, perhaps some HDS 325 vs Elzetta Alpha beam shots? 2 killer lights. 2 very different lights.... Stay tuned!


----------



## JohnSmith

ForrestChump said:


> Elzetta Alpha inbound!
> 
> Will try and give back to the thread a little, perhaps some HDS 325 vs Elzetta Alpha beam shots? 2 killer lights. 2 very different lights.... Stay tuned!



Please do... Thanks.


----------



## Grizzman

The new Alpha arrived today. Its tint is very slightly cooler than the other one, but still what I consider to be on the warm end of neutral. I'll be able to identify it better after dark. The light pattern is also somewhat different. The central spot is much more defined, with the immediate corona area being less bright (compared to Alpha #1). 

In an across the spare bedroom lux test, it out performs the other Alpha by 42 lux. I'm curious how it will compare to the HDS.

It should be safe to say I'll like this one more than the other. I'm definitely still a happy Elzetta customer.


----------



## RI Chevy

Just curious to see if it compares to any of my photos. As far as beam pattern and tint go.


----------



## Grizzman

It won't be exact due to glass and sensor differences, but I can match all the camera settings used by you to take photos comparing the Alpha to 219 and NL Malkoffs.


----------



## neutralwhite

now that's interesting.
im about just about to order and alpha , so i say, but these tests are great to help me decide and not decide to have one lol. 



Grizzman said:


> The new Alpha arrived today. Its tint is very slightly cooler than the other one, but still what I consider to be on the warm end of neutral. I'll be able to identify it better after dark. The light pattern is also somewhat different. The central spot is much more defined, with the immediate corona area being less bright (compared to Alpha #1).
> 
> In an across the spare bedroom lux test, it out performs the other Alpha by 42 lux. I'm curious how it will compare to the HDS.
> 
> It should be safe to say I'll like this one more than the other. I'm definitely still a happy Elzetta customer.


----------



## RI Chevy

I think the description of the tint being on the warm side of neutral is pretty good.


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks, what would the likely CRI be?.
thank you.




RI Chevy said:


> I think the description of the tint being on the warm side of neutral is pretty good.


----------



## RI Chevy

I have no idea on the CRI value. But the Alpha is nice and pleasing to the eye.


----------



## ForrestChump

Slumber Pass said:


> Congratulations......I look forward to your insights Forrest.





pjandyho said:


> That would be great Forrest!





neutralwhite said:


> im staying tuned!. thanks.





JohnSmith said:


> Please do... Thanks.



EDIT:

My sincere apologies guys. 
I planned on a simple comparison for reference. But I VASTLY prefer the HDS and don't feel it fit to post further in regards to the Alpha.


----------



## Grizzman

ForrestChump said:


> This is super interesting. So if Im understanding the data correctly, there is no mistake that refinements have been made and this is not a variation in manufacturing, correct?



I personally have no knowledge beyond owning two lights that do not have identical performance. Your favorite manufacturer has stated clearly that not all LEDs are created equal, and drive level adjustments are made in order to achieve identical output performance from all specimens. In addition to output levels, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is some degree of variation in light radiation patterns also, which could affect the spot and spill size/shape.

Now that it's dark, I can confirm that the tint difference between the two is quite subtle, and not at all beyond typical LED to LED variation.

If the original light were delivering that I would consider a poor performance, then I could move the optic and carrier from the new one to the old one to determine the cause of the discrepancy (It's either the emitter, or what the light passes through between it and the target), with the option to purchase replacement items so that both (hopefully) behave identically. This is one of the great benefits of the modular design of Elzetta lights.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> I personally have no knowledge beyond owning two lights that do not have identical performance. *Your favorite manufacturer has stated clearly that not all LEDs are created equal, and drive level adjustments are made in order to achieve identical output performance from all specimens. In addition to output levels, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is some degree of variation in light radiation patterns also, which could affect the spot and spill size/shape.*
> 
> Now that it's dark, I can confirm that the tint difference between the two is quite subtle, and not at all beyond typical LED to LED variation.
> 
> If the original light were delivering that I would consider a poor performance, then I could move the optic and carrier from the new one to the old one to determine the cause of the discrepancy (It's either the emitter, or what the light passes through between it and the target), with the option to purchase replacement items so that both (hopefully) behave identically. This is one of the great benefits of the modular design of Elzetta lights.



Gotcha.


----------



## Grizzman

Forest, has your Alpha landed yet?


----------



## ForrestChump

.................


----------



## Grizzman

I guess I'm lucky that USPS always delivers before 1:00. UPS generally doesn't arrive until close to 5:00. 

I personally am mostly interested in your verbal feedback regarding light pattern, machining/anodizing, size, and tailcap/switch.


----------



## neutralwhite

My Bravo should be landing any day now.


----------



## Grizzman

.....and you went with an M60 and high/low tailcap?


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks, very close , went with high / strobe. m60.
im considering the alpha too , and have been all day!, lol.



Grizzman said:


> .....and you went with an M60 and high/low tailcap?


----------



## Grizzman

The high/strobe option seems to be a rather rare selection among CPF'ers.

My old Alpha has taken residency in the range bag to back-up a Charlie with M61N SHO. This allows the previous back-up, a Bravo with M61N, to go back into standard carry rotation.


----------



## neutralwhite

i could never take strobe in a neutral seriously for some reason, so went with cool, and also like throw lights from experience.
im am on the lookout to back up my bravo, and it's looking alpha.
i have a Prometheus qr copper but I feel that's ok but not good enough for a back up to the m60




Grizzman said:


> The high/strobe option seems to be a rather rare selection among CPF'ers.
> 
> My old Alpha has taken residency in the range bag to back-up a Charlie with M61N SHO. This allows the previous back-up, a Bravo with M61N, to go back into standard carry rotation.


----------



## AVService

My Alpha is ready on my CX4 Storm most of the time and seems about perfect for close quarters to me.
The tint is different than any other light that I have and not as warm as a Nichia and I really prefer it that way so far.


----------



## neutralwhite

Alpha Just Ordered!. 
thanks.


----------



## Grizzman

RI, the Alpha's spot in your photos is significantly cooler than the spill. Is this what you see with your eyes?

My camera, with Daylight white balance, shows a similar spot/spill difference, but the difference is less significant to my eyes.


----------



## neutralwhite

I was just looking at that myself and thought the same.
it looks good to my eyes.



Grizzman said:


> RI, the Alpha's spot in your photos is significantly cooler than the spill. Is this what you see with your eyes?


----------



## RI Chevy

Yes. That is probably why I describe the tint as being more neutral. It seems to be more dominant in the center as far as determining the tint. The spill shows up more from the closeup white wall shots than in real life.


----------



## ampdude

marinemaster said:


> SF = no 18650 support
> Elzetta = no 18650 support
> I'll pass



You are missing out on.... life


----------



## ForrestChump

..........


----------



## RI Chevy

Get them bored out for 18650.


----------



## Grizzman

RI Chevy said:


> Get them bored out for 18650.



I had my ZFL-M60 bored for 18650s a bit over a year ago, and will be sending a Bravo to Oveready for the next borebatch.


----------



## neutralwhite

I'm deciding if my alpha, like my bravo, should have a dark sucks ti clip. 
yes?, no?. 
i feel the clip suits the bravo more.


----------



## Grizzman

The Prometheus clip works equally well on the Alpha and Bravo.

The only clip that may work better for an Alpha is the Moddoolar Surefire 6P clip, which was discontinued years ago.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thank you, I ordered a clip for the alpha as well.





Grizzman said:


> The Prometheus clip works equally well on the Alpha and Bravo.
> 
> The only clip that may work better for an Alpha is the Moddoolar Surefire 6P clip, which was discontinued years ago.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi , you know with the Prometheus clip for the bravo, it says place the o ring which comes with the clip below the clip, but I see an o ring already when I unscrew the tailcap.

do I need to remove that o ring ?.
I did push the darksucks o ring over the other o ring so it's further below it, but the clip seems a little tough to slide over and down!.

step by step guide anyone?.

kind thanks!.


----------



## Grizzman

To make clip installation easier, I sometimes remove the one 0-ring that's used for water resistance. Did you buy your Bravo from Oveready, bored for 18650s?

The o-ring you likely see is there to provide water resistance. The 0-ring that came with the clip is larger in diameter, and will go past the existing one when it's slid onto the body. This o-ring will not go into a groove. It will take up excess space between the ring of the clip and the rear shoulder of the body.

If for some odd reason, your Brave has two o-rings at the tail, remove the one that isn't in a slot, since it's unlikely to be the correct size.

Step by step:

Remove tailcap
Remove any o-ring that isn't in a slot for water resistance
place o-ring onto body until it meets shoulder between full diameter body and thread section
place clip onto body
screw tailcap onto body


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks, Direct from Elzetta.
so I remove the o ring in the groove, slide the Prometheus o ring over, slide the clip over, put that same o ring which was in the groove back on.

So they'll be two o rings when all done?.
i did try sliding the clip over the elzetta o ring and that was pretty hard.
i think I'll have to remove that o ring then try it right?.
thanks grizz. Just wanna get it right bro!.


----------



## Grizzman

Yep, your plan is correct. There will be two o-rings....one for water resistance, and one for aesthetics (and to keep the clip from rotating freely).

On another note, I received an Alpha flood optic yesterday. It delivers more even output than an AVS with flood optic or even a Malkoff M60WF. It works exceedingly well indoors.


----------



## neutralwhite

Clip sorted!, thanks!!.
Yes i have an alpha on way and that would be an indoor close range clearer colour rendition light / back up. 
man, I'm so impressed at the bravo!.
its built for war!.



Grizzman said:


> Yep, your plan is correct. There will be two o-rings....one for water resistance, and one for aesthetics (and to keep the clip from rotating freely).
> 
> On another note, I received an Alpha flood optic yesterday. It delivers more even output than an AVS with flood optic or even a Malkoff M60WF. It works exceedingly well indoors.


----------



## neutralwhite

I have noticed with the Prometheus clip, you can't over tighten the tailcap, Otherwise it's so hard to move it one-handed just to keep the clip in a tight place.


----------



## Grizzman

Neutralwhite is correct. If the tailcap is tightened hard against the body with two hands, it is difficult to loosen it for low operation with one hand. Operation strictly with one hand eliminates this condition.

With my A, B, and Cs, the clip is adequately immobile from one handed tightening.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks, do you have the speed clips on them ?.







Grizzman said:


> Neutralwhite is correct. If the tailcap is tightened hard against the body with two hands, it is difficult to loosen it for low operation with one hand. Operation strictly with one hand eliminates this condition.
> 
> With my A, B, and Cs, the clip is adequately immobile from one handed tightening.


----------



## Grizzman

All of my Elzettas have Prometheus clips.


----------



## neutralwhite

You didn't like the speed clips ?. 

does anyone carry their elzetta with no clip?. 




Grizzman said:


> All of my Elzettas have Prometheus clips.


----------



## RI Chevy

I carry my Alpha loose in my pocket.


----------



## Low_Speed

Yeah, Elzetta makes a great flashlight but the Speed Clips suck. I'm always afraid that my Alpha is going to fall out of my pocket.


----------



## neutralwhite

I may even carry my crenelated bezel bravo alone in my pocket as well as I do like the Prometheus clip, but I kinda feel it takes the toughness character of the light away with the clip not being solidly somehow tighter.
it seems like somethings a little wrong with such a great light.

im wondering if anyone carries a creulated bezel elzetta clip free or even holster free.
at the moment today , I'm carrying it in my cargo pants top pocket bezel up-no clip.





RI Chevy said:


> I carry my Alpha loose in my pocket.


----------



## delus

*Painter's Pants*

I have two bravos and a charlie and have never even thought about a clip. I wear painter's pants six days a week

Painter's pants have a narrow leg pocket, sometimes called a "ruler pocket". It's unbelievable how perfectly a bravo fits in there. Always at the perfect height where two fingers just fall in, and quickdraw whip it out. You'll have the light on within two seconds of thinking you need it. After a few months of this, muscle memory kicks in and it's an automatic process. You just think "light" and the hand does the rest.
The carhartt pants I use are just deep enough that the fabric covers the light with about an inch extra. This keeps it from falling out when I'm sitting or kneeling. The only drawback is occasionally while kneeling it gets jammed between my calf and thigh for a few moments of unintended momentary mode. I have the old style super tough casio rock flip phone in the right pocket and the Elzetta in the left.
Some pants manufacturers are now using a wider pocket to accommodate newer phone sizes. I don't like this at all because, like in a cargo pocket, the light can get turned horizontal.
Use a smooth bezel because a crenelated would probably tear the fabric.

I urge you to try a pair of painter's pants with your EDC light.


----------



## ForrestChump

*Re: Painter's Pants*



delus said:


> I urge you to try a pair of painter's pants with your EDC light.



In other words ****ies, I got an MD2 in my watch pocket / right side and a folder in the main pocket below. Nearly unnoticeable comfort / weight while carrying.


----------



## Slumber

Oops! Delete.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi few questions, thanks.

I have some nano oil for my bravo and alpha.
is this OK as it looks like elzetta use nyogel right?.
should I follow and use nyogel?.

also, do I need to lube the o rings as it seems they light arrived with just the threads lubed.
will it be too slippery , or should I leave them?..

would they suffer from abrasion?..

Lastly, do I lube the orange one ?..and when Im about to screw the head together, where should the Orange o ring sit ?

thanks.


----------



## Str8stroke

Clean with a 99% isopropyl alcohol then:

You can use nyogel, or make it easy and hit the auto parts store or electrical supply house and ask for Dielectric Grease. Thats basically what Nyogel is. 

I "think" that the oring goes to around the P60. I googled some pics and found that.


----------



## Grizzman

I've got a couple different varieties of Nyogel, and the substance that Elzetta uses is nothing like them. I've used Nano Oil on a Bravo, and it works as well as it does on any other light. It is always a good idea to lubricate o-rings, especially when it will improve the ease with which a head or tailcap is turned to activate a different output level.

I personally don't lubricate the orange o-ring, since it shouldn't ever get wet, and nothing slides against it.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> I've got a couple different varieties of Nyogel, and the substance that Elzetta uses is nothing like them.



I believe it is Molykote.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks.



Grizzman said:


> I've got a couple different varieties of Nyogel, and the substance that Elzetta uses is nothing like them. I've used Nano Oil on a Bravo, and it works as well as it does on any other light. It is always a good idea to lubricate o-rings, especially when it will improve the ease with which a head or tailcap is turned to activate a different output level.
> 
> I personally don't lubricate the orange o-ring, since it shouldn't ever get wet, and nothing slides against it.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi I have received my alpha today and although it's such a great compliment to my bravo, I have noticed inside the LENS / LED area ( like a reflector area), it's pretty dusty sticky looking!. :-(

it looks no way like the inside of the bravo when that arrived.
i have contacted elzetta already to see what's next.

im wondering what they'd do with it as the head isn't removable like the bravo, and its engraved. 

i cannot have a new light in this way.
thanks.


----------



## Str8stroke

neutralwhite said:


> I have noticed inside the LENS / LED area ( like a reflector area), it's pretty dusty sticky looking!. :-(
> 
> i cannot have a new light in this way.
> thanks.



Mine has this too. I have heard others say the same. Because I bought it to beat it up, I wasn't too worried. I think it would have almost no effect on performance. But, I don't think they should be sent out this way.


----------



## RI Chevy

The bezel unscrews so the lens can be changed. Mine came the same way as well. It sort of looks like air bubbles in the plastic. Elzetta has excellent QC.


----------



## neutralwhite

Many thanks,- compared to my bravo, it's very different and reminds me of those cheap lights you buy in the dollar store, lol.
no offence as I know Dave has excellent quality control.

I really didn't pay $160 to expect this though.
still, I hope to invest in a Charlie one day.





Str8stroke said:


> Mine has this too. I have heard others say the same. Because I bought it to beat it up, I wasn't too worried. I think it would have almost no effect on performance. But, I don't think they should be sent out this way.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks, can you confirm its in the area of the LED, like the reflector area would be.
I mean I have removed the bezel but there is a white ring around the lens so how do I get the reflector led area ?.
That white ring seems to have it sealed locked in. 

is this something I can do, or do I need to send it back to the United States ?.




RI Chevy said:


> The bezel unscrews so the lens can be changed. Mine came the same way as well. It sort of looks like air bubbles in the plastic. Elzetta has excellent QC.


----------



## RI Chevy

There may be a tutorial video on the website or blog that explains or shows how better than I can. Not sure where I saw it though. I would wait until I hear back from Dave and see what he has to say about the issue. 
I think the lens just comes straight out though.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks, I would take the lens out if I could see a way, but I am concerned moreabout even touching it - don't want to void any warranty.
Yes I am awaiting what Dave says. 
Thanks so far everyone.



RI Chevy said:


> There may be a tutorial video on the website or blog that explains or shows how better than I can. Not sure where I saw it though. I would wait until I hear back from Dave and see what he has to say about the issue.
> I think the lens just comes straight out though.


----------



## Grizzman

The white optic holder does come out, just like the AVS head design. If you can't get a grip on it with a fingernail, a pick or similar tool should make it relatively easy to remove. Removing the optic and holder won't void the warranty. Replacement optics come with a holder in the package. 

Wow, another Alpha with a dusty/dirty optic and holder area. My flashlight luck must be improving, because both of mine were as clean as my AVS heads. This is definitely unacceptable in a $100+ light.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hey grizz thanks , I believe it may be the optic part as the white holder bit is ok it seems,
its the optic bit, the reflector in there what's dirty.
i don't think the lens can be removed from That optic part, and like you said, the optic and holder comes as a package.
they may have to send me a new one out rather me sending the light back. ?.
thanks, and yes for a $100+ light I did expect better QC.




Grizzman said:


> The white optic holder does come out, just like the AVS head design. If you can't get a grip on it with a fingernail, a pick or similar tool should make it relatively easy to remove. Removing the optic and holder won't void the warranty. Replacement optics come with a holder in the package.
> 
> Wow, another Alpha with a dusty/dirty optic and holder area. My flashlight luck must be improving, because both of mine were as clean as my AVS heads. This is definitely unacceptable in a $100+ light.


----------



## Grizzman

The optic and white holder are two separate units, and they should come apart relatively easily. The design is the same as the AVS head.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks lots, yes the optic can come out, but I can't get actually inside the optic reflector area alone to clean it meaning a new optic then.
now only if elzetta will post me a clean new one!.

Thanks. 




Grizzman said:


> The optic and white holder are two separate units, and they should come apart relatively easily. The design is the same as the AVS head.


----------



## RI Chevy

Check on the Elzetta website for the video blogs. Then click the link at the bottom for YouTube. Tactical flashlight modularity. I think it shows how the AVS heads come apart to change out optics. That should help you a little. There are several excellent videos!


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi, I got this response from elzetta; 

" The Alpha Lens is different from the AVS Lens and may have visible markings. These markings do not affect the beam, however. All Elzetta Modular Flashlights are made with clearance in the Tailcap threads to allow momentary high-beam activation on dual-mode Tailcaps. When the Tailcap is rotated CCW just enough to enter Low Mode, the Tailcap may be pressed to momentarily activate High mode. If this is not desired, simply rotate the Tailcap further CCW. Please feel free to return you unit for evaluation if you feel it is not operating properly. "


But the thing is how did the visible markings get there in the first place ?.
Now I don't really want to return the light, but have Dave send me a clean optic lens part.


----------



## RI Chevy

I really think it is just air bubbles in the plastic. That is what mine looks like. Not many, but just a few very small, tiny bubbles.


----------



## Grizzman

In case you're not aware, Elzetta uses the same mechanical means of high/low operation as Malkoff. A spring loaded pin protrudes through a ring in the tailcap. When the tailcap is threaded onto the body, this pin contacts the body before the ring and the current flows through the pin, then through resisters (to lower output), then through the rest of the light. When the tailcap is tightened fully the tailcap ring contacts the body directly, bypassing the pin and resister, therefore allowing full current to flow.

My Alphas operate in the way that Elzetta states. With the tailcap in low mode, but near high mode, pressing forward on the tailcap body activates high. Pressing on the switch boot with the light in low mode (even when just barely out of high operating range) does now activate high. Your light's threads may have excessive play, which allows for the tailcap to move forward when any pressure is placed upon it.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks but these look some more than just air bubbles.
it seems like those rubber type lights you buy for a few dollars-overly dusty looking reflectors.

I've had other lights with reflectors with very minor air bubbles/marks , but this is a little too much for what I've expected from elzetta!.




RI Chevy said:


> I really think it is just air bubbles in the plastic. That is what mine looks like. Not many, but just a few very small, tiny bubbles.


----------



## neutralwhite

Great; Elzetta just told me they will be sending out a new replacement lens.


----------



## RI Chevy

Good to hear.


----------



## ForrestChump

Let us know how the new reflector is.


----------



## neutralwhite

I am considering using lithium cells in both my bravo and alpha full time.
does anyone do the same or do you use rechargeables?.

Thing is, i know elzetta says that rechargeables are ok if your like Walking the dog or doing vehicle maintenance and stuff,
but in a life or death situation use normal lithium cells.
does this refer strictly not to use rechargeables on gun mounts?.


if not, also they way the world is, and covering yourself, even walking the dog could take you into a life or death situation I guess, so for me, I don't even want the light to cut off even at that time cos you just never know.

I know rechargeables as Cost effective, but I value my life more, even if it's walking the dog.


Also another thing, my lithium batteries from battery station are 3.0v, and my nitecore 16340 is 3.7v.
is there a big difference in brightness ?.


thanks.


----------



## RI Chevy

I use a CR123A cell in my Alpha. That won't change. I use both 2xCR123A's and 16650 cells in my Bravo that is unbored. The Sanyo 16650 2500 mAh cells work well. If I was using the Bravo in duty situation then I would use CR123A cells. 
I also have a bored Bravo and I use Panasonic NCR18650B unprotected cells.


----------



## calflash

I've been using 18650 zebralight batteries in my bravo. They have been working fine and it's nice to leave each morning with a full charge. BUT... I did have one problem and it was not the battery's fault or Elzetta's fault. It's more my fault for a non factory approved modification I guess. If your considering an 18mm bored Bravo or Charlie please consider the following.

The overready 18mm battery tube is bored out to 18mm almost all the way to the top but there is a small lip left - I would imagine on purpose. I dropped the light from about 6 feet onto concrete and it landed head first. The light didn't work when I picked it up and come to find out, I almost was holding a pipe bomb. The 16mm lip at the top of the 18mm bore cut through the shrink wrap on the battery and made contact with the positive lead that travels down to the protection circuit at the bottom of the battery. If it hadn't been for the spring on the head I'm sure I would have had an exploded switch or worse. So if you use a bored host, choose your battery design carefully. I'm open to any suggestions also


----------



## RI Chevy

There is usually an o-ring that is used for a battery bumper on the bored hosts done by Oveready.


----------



## calflash

Hey! Thanks for the info - I'll source one immediately!


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi, read this about Nitecore 650mah ICR123A 3.7v cells in elzetta's.

" 
For the record, the rechargeable batteries you have are actually 4.2v with a nominal voltage of 3.7v
This means, when you load two in series, you have 8.4v vs 6.0v for 2x CR123a’s.
This could mean the difference between working and burning out the driver, if the driver can’t handle the voltage. So you need to be sure it can work on 8.4v.



So, Could I ask, - is that all correct ^ and 
would the elzetta bravo and alpha driver's be able to handle Nitecore 650mah ICR123A 3.7v batteries?. 

Cheers.


----------



## Neo9710

Looks like Elzetta came out with their mini-CQB light - http://www.ar15news.com/2015/05/02/elzetta-design-mini-cqb-modular-weaponlights-shipping/ Always been an Elzetta fan but Im in the market for a light for a long gun.. This peaked my interest!


----------



## 880arm

neutralwhite said:


> So, Could I ask, - is that all correct ^ and
> would the elzetta bravo and alpha driver's be able to handle Nitecore 650mah ICR123A 3.7v batteries?.
> 
> Cheers.



That's pretty close to correct.

The Bravo body can be used with the M60 style drop-ins or the AVS head, which can also be used with the longer 3-cell Charlie body. Using rechargeables in this configuration presents no issues as the voltage of 2 lithium-ion batteries is still below that of 3 CR123s.

My Alphas have worked fine in limited testing with a single 16340 lithium-ion battery and I know there are a few people on here that run theirs that way.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks , so it's safely ok to carry on say using these nitecores?.
2 in my bravo, 1 in my alpha?.

thanks. 






880arm said:


> That's pretty close to correct.
> 
> The Bravo body can be used with the M60 style drop-ins or the AVS head, which can also be used with the longer 3-cell Charlie body. Using rechargeables in this configuration presents no issues as the voltage of 2 lithium-ion batteries is still below that of 3 CR123s.
> 
> My Alphas have worked fine in limited testing with a single 16340 lithium-ion battery and I know there are a few people on here that run theirs that way.


----------



## Grizzman

The M60 LED assembly is designed to work with three CR123s, so is completely safe with two Li-Ions. 

I have been running an Alpha from a Li-Ion for almost a year with no negative effects.


----------



## JohnSmith

RI Chevy said:


> There is usually an o-ring that is used for a battery bumper on the bored hosts done by Oveready.



This is the first I've ever heard of this problem. And I'm glad I now know about it. For what it's worth, my Oveready-bored Elzetta Charlie did not come with an O-ring in that location.


----------



## RI Chevy

It comes with an Elzetta if you buy it from Oveready. http://www.oveready.com/a-parts/rubber/battery-bumper-o-ring-/prod_194.html


----------



## JohnSmith

RI Chevy said:


> It comes with an Elzetta if you buy it from Oveready. http://www.oveready.com/a-parts/rubber/battery-bumper-o-ring-/prod_194.html



I bought mine from Oveready and it did not come with this O-ring. But at least now I know about this and can buy the part to rectify this very serious issue.


----------



## RI Chevy

Send them an Email. They may send one to you.


----------



## calflash

Thanks for the link RI Chevy. I emailed them. I too purchased mine from OR less than a month ago and it didn't have it in there. Maybe they missed that step on the last batch. If they get my email, they will at least know that some were missed.


----------



## JohnSmith

I just got an unsolicited email from Oveready. Looks like this issue is now on their radar and they're offering to send a free Oring to those who purchased these bored Elzettas from them.


----------



## neutralwhite

I emailed them about the lens and they without a fuss, sent me one out.
Great company 



RI Chevy said:


> Send them an Email. They may send one to you.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi, 
hey , when I put some RCR in my high\strobe cap bravo, on constant high, it runs for some hour, and nearly the same for the high/low cap alpha.
now, when I place a fresh 4.2 charged rcr in the alpha again on low, it runs for my 20-30 mins then cuts out.
how is that?. I checked the voltage and it was like 3.36v for the alpha, and the bravo the same I think.

I mean on high its expected, but on I thought being on low with a fresh rcr would run even longer.
why does it cut off so quick on low?. 

I might keep a lithium in the alpha and RCR in the bravo. 

Cheers from London.


----------



## RI Chevy

You measured the cell's resting voltage. When the cell is under load, the cell's voltage drops and would read less. Under load, the cell must be tripping the protection circuit, or the light is falling out of regulation. I had the same situation using a CR123A in my Alpha. The light trips off with the cell reading about 2.5v's on a DMM. I tried the same cell in a low voltage M31L (.8v to 3.3v) and it wouldn't light that either.
I was told that CR123A cell is spent at 2.5 volts.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks.
As soon as I took it out the alpha , on the VP1 charger, it read 3.36v.
i thought this recharagable would get some good 20+ hours of low light.

is there a problem with my tailcap maybe?.
whats the solution then if it's on low and cuts off after a mere 40 minutes or so?. 
On high it manages a good usual 40 minutes.

Would lithium do the same on low?. No right?.
Might just stick to lithium lol.


thanks. 



RI Chevy said:


> You measured the cell's resting voltage. When the cell is under load, the cell's voltage drops and would read less. Under load, the cell must be tripping the protection circuit, or the light is falling out of regulation. I had the same situation using a CR123A in my Alpha. The light trips off with the cell reading about 2.5v's on a DMM. I tried the same cell in a low voltage M31L (.8v to 3.3v) and it wouldn't light that either.
> I was told that CR123A cell is spent at 2.5 volts.


----------



## RI Chevy

Not sure if the Alpha would act the same way with a CR123A? Maybe sacrafice a CR123A cell for the good of the order and see. 
I try and do real life tests. I do not have the knowledge or hardware to do the scientific testing.
If you do test, be sure to report back.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi hey thanks, for the good of the order, a test is already underway with a battery station CR.
so far it's been 1h:20. 
I feel this will do as it meant to being a primary lithium.

i still can't believe how on low with the 650mah nitecore, cut out on me after 40 mins. 
Any scientists around?. 



RI Chevy said:


> Not sure if the Alpha would act the same way with a CR123A? Maybe sacrafice a CR123A cell for the good of the order and see.
> I try and do real life tests. I do not have the knowledge or hardware to do the scientific testing.
> If you do test, be sure to report back.


----------



## RI Chevy

Thanks for doing this test for us. 
Just thinking outloud for a minute. Maybe that is why Elzetta recommends primary cells only? Maybe primary cells pack a little more punch? Or have a little more umph in the tank?


----------



## Grizzman

I'm not a scientist, but I'll happily add an additional layer of data by performing a run test on an Alpha on low with an AW RCR123.

I've used the Alpha on low quite a bit, but always for short periods of time.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks, yes extra data will assist.
alpha is still on over 2 hours. 

elzetta state around 36 hours on low, so I thought ok, with a rechargeable, maybe some loss, but wow,....a 35 hour loss?!. Lol.
i wonder if 36 hours is close on a primary. 
Will write to elzetta too about this RCR thing.
The Bravo did well on RCR though. 


Thanks everyone so far. 





Grizzman said:


> I'm not a scientist, but I'll happily add an additional layer of data by performing a run test on an Alpha on low with an AW RCR123.
> 
> I've used the Alpha on low quite a bit, but always for short periods of time.





RI Chevy said:


> Thanks for doing this test for us.
> Just thinking outloud for a minute. Maybe that is why Elzetta recommends primary cells only? Maybe primary cells pack a little more punch? Or have a little more umph in the tank?


----------



## Grizzman

The fully charged AW RCR123 lasted 39 minutes and 45 seconds before shutting off. The cell's resting voltage measured to be 2.85 volts within 30 seconds of the light shutting off.

During the first 10 minutes of the test, the Alpha was sitting on the lamp table beside my recliner. When I picked it up, I noticed that the body was much warmer than I'd expected it to be. The tailcap itself was a lot warmer than the body. I presume that the electrical path through the resister is turning more electricity into heat than into light....which is dramatically reducing run time.


----------



## RI Chevy

Interesting Grizzman.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi hello many thanks for that Grizzman, and hey I noticed the warmth as well being so warm just been on low.
I would say with the runtime on high, you to get the same amount of time before cut-off.
I would like to know how that works out though still. 

Any ideas ?. 
I wonder what elzetta says on this.

thanks again grizz and Chevy !..


----------



## RI Chevy

I think the resistance in the tailcap. The slow down of power makes heat. Now, if we could only turn that heat into power!


----------



## peter yetman

I've been wondering about this for a while, but too scared to ask. A resistor by design dissipates energy as heat. I'm not really surprised that you're getting the same runtimes on High and Low with a resistor. It's only the voltage / current reducers in drivers that seem to improve runtimes. Not that I know anything.
Anyone tried the same test on Malkoffs? I've never seen a quote for Lo/hi runtimes on these, maybe because we're supposed to assume they are the same.
Hopefully I'm not being dumb.
P


----------



## neutralwhite

Well earlier today i received my replacement lens for my alpha.
they sent me the whole unit and a note of apology.
the lens was way cleaner than the original.

i swapped them out and kept the original as a spare now, unless someone on here needs it then I will post!.
im still pretty surprised how elzetta sells alpha's with dusted up lenses.
i really do suggest if yours is an issue, get in touch with them. 

This no way changes just how great elzetta is!.
Thanks.


----------



## RI Chevy

Glad to hear that they made it right for you. :thumbsup:


----------



## delus

Oveready's Bore service has been stuck at 46 for a long time. We need to make it to 50.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...re-Bezel-Tailcap-Options-(P-C-Z-and-M-Series)

...So this is a friendly reminder to anyone who has a stock Bravo, that replacing two 123's with a single 18650 can double or even triple your usable runtime. An 18650 is still at 75% while the 123's are under 20%.
Getting your Elzetta bored for 18mm is not very expensive, and in the long run you'll save lots of money on batteries. Hopefully you won't have to wait too long.


Here is 880Arm's runtime chart. Still at 40% after three full hours!!!


----------



## rickyro

yes. I just pulled the trigger yesterday based on 880arm's great review for one Oveready bored Elzetta Bravo AVS.

I like and trust 880arm's review partially for that he ranked HDS Rotary as the best EDC 2014, which I happen to have one and like the most of my small flashlight collections.

And I like the beam pattern of AVS head shown by 880arm's pictures in his review, which looks like the typical TIR beam pattern like that of Peak Eiger, such as very gradual tapering from spot to spill and no obvious edge.

And I dislike the beam patter of Malkoff Hound Dog 18650, which has a very obvious edge and some dark rings between edge and center spot. So I ordered one MD2 instead.

I love USA made flashlights. Really great quality. I have HDS Rotary 170N, Clicky 120, Surefire EB1, Peak Eiger AAA SS and copper so far. Now I am looking forward to receiving Elzetta AVS Bravo and Malkoff MD2, and wish I can get one Mcgizmo Haiku or Sundrop in some time. I am planning to giving out all Chinese made (I am a Chinese) lights to friends or just keeping a few of them for abused situations, such as Zebralight, Quark, Sunwaymen.


----------



## RI Chevy

You will be happy! ;
The only time you really notice any rings in a beam projection is when you shine it on a wall. When you use a light in the field, especially a Malkoff Hound Dog, you will appreciate the light output and beam.


----------



## JohnSmith

I have to say I really appreciate the battery flexibility of my Oveready-bored Elzetta Charlie AVS. I run it on 3xCR123, 2x18500 (AW 18490), and 1x18650 with a spacer. It's not my favorite light, but it's utilitarian and versatile, and the machining and anodizing is truly excellent. Just a high-quality, durable, dependable system all around.


----------



## RI Chevy

*Happy 8 Year Anniversary to* _*Elzetta*_! 

Thanks for building some awesome lights! 

Now, how about some Jungle/Urban camouflage lights, and maybe an anniversary model? 

lovecpf


----------



## rickyro

Just got the ElZetta Bravo AVS Oveready bored 18650. Great flashlight!

The build and finish is as expected, top notch quality like EB1, but with much better grip and balance.

The beam pattern is also as expected from a TIR optics. No clear edge, natural blended into the darkness. 

And the tint is so different and much better than SC600 L2 MKII.

Now I have to try the color rendering at night. Should be not so good as Nichia 219. But all in all, the light impresses me a lot.


----------



## RI Chevy

They are very nice. Good luck with it. The AVS head rrally pumps out light when using the Charlie host. Aybe you could try using 2x18350 RCR cells in your Bravo and see the difference. The tint is a beautiful neutral tint!


----------



## rickyro

I tried with 2*18350, but it seems it is not working well. Always flash one time and then into off. And the second battery stick out too much. So I just give up. 500 lumen is already good enough for me. And by this lumen the heat is well controlled for long time use.

I also bought the flood optics. I swapped it and found that the beam is amazing. No artifacts at all, perfect usable flood.

The beam from the standard optics is very unique. One very small white hot spot, surrounded by a middle sized yellow spill, and then surrounded by a quite large faded corona. The corona has no clear edge, which is perfect and quite characteristic for TIR optics. My other TIRs (EB1, two Peak Eiger 219) has only hot spot and spill, two circles of light. But AVS is unique at having three, especially the very white (a little purple to my eyes) small center hot spot.

With flood optics, then you see no three levels of circle anymore, just a very large hot spot gradually faded into darkness. Really nice beam.

But the the beam is not good for close use (one handed distance reading), since you will see a 4 leaves flower hot spot.

And the color rendering is really just so so as expected from XM-L2. Very strong yellow pollution at low. At high it is OK, but quite far away from the 219Bs, not even close to my SC62d.


All in all, a great light.
pros:
1. build, finish, size, design are all so good. feel so good at hand, a little head heavy, but I can put my point finger around the head bottom quite comfortably since the temperature is very well controlled.
2. unique beam patter with three levels of light, very small and white center hot spot, maybe perfect for law enforcement use. typical TIR beam quality. Flood optics is a must, providing a totally different but very useful flood beam.
3. 18650 battery support after bored by Oveready. 
4. intuitive and simple UI

cons:
1. only color rendering is not good. I think ElZetta should choose XP-G2, which is a good compromise between flux and color rendering.
2. four leaves flowered beam in short distance is weird. 
3. no clip


----------



## les_garten

Hi,
I'm working my way thru this thread, it's a long one!

If you have a ZFL-M60 3 cell, can you bore it to 18mm and use 2 18500's? It seems some said it would work and some said they wouldn't work.


----------



## rickyro

les_garten said:


> Hi,
> I'm working my way thru this thread, it's a long one!
> 
> If you have a ZFL-M60 3 cell, can you bore it to 18mm and use 2 18500's? It seems some said it would work and some said they wouldn't work.





Fully regulated output between 3.8 and 9.0 volts

M60 is speced as above. Oveready is selling bored Charlie body. So I think it should be working. But I don't have it to test.


----------



## RI Chevy

Yes you can. You just need to use the correct 18500 cells. Oveready sells them. And you should get either the High /Low or High/Strobe or Clicky tail cap. They do not work well with the twisty tailcap. They are a great light!


----------



## les_garten

RI Chevy said:


> Yes you can. You just need to use the correct 18500 cells. Oveready sells them. And you should get either the High /Low or High/Strobe or Clicky tail cap. They do not work well with the twisty tailcap. They are a great light!



You are referring to the 18490 IMR's? Those are like 400mah less than the AW 18500's, that sux!


----------



## RI Chevy

Yes. They fit better, lengthwise, in the bored Elzetta host. Other 18500 cells may be too long to properly fit in the bored Charlie host.


----------



## RI Chevy

I'd like to see an AAA keychain light ftom Elzetta! 

Something small, powerful, durable, reliable, and Elzetta!


----------



## Gadgetman7

RI Chevy said:


> I'd like to see an AAA keychain light ftom Elzetta!
> 
> Something small, powerful, durable, reliable, and Elzetta!



That would be interesting. Better with a neutral tint.


----------



## RI Chevy

Yup. The same tint as the AVS head.


----------



## ForrestChump

RI Chevy said:


> I'd like to see an AAA keychain light ftom Elzetta!
> 
> Something small, powerful, durable, reliable, and Elzetta!



You know....the vibe I get from them... I don't think this would be to far of a stretch, maybe shoot them an email? Or start an interest poll?


----------



## ForrestChump

ForrestChump said:


> Or start an interest poll?



HERE!


----------



## RI Chevy

Thanks Forrest. 
I'd be willing to bet that they monitor this thread.


----------



## kj2

Just ordered my first Elzetta  an Alpha standard high/low.


----------



## newbie66

kj2 said:


> Just ordered my first Elzetta  an Alpha standard high/low.



Great! Finally getting one eh! Will you umm... well, do a review on it?


----------



## kj2

newbie66 said:


> Great! Finally getting one eh! Will you umm... well, do a review on it?



I might  If I've the time, I will.


----------



## newbie66

kj2 said:


> I might  If I've the time, I will.




:twothumbs


----------



## Grizzman

kj2 said:


> Just ordered my first Elzetta  an Alpha standard high/low.



You're in trouble now. 

You will now need to get a bored Bravo with M60 to contrast with the floody beam of the Alpha. Naturally, a different Bravo bezel with M61 engine is next, to enjoy the multi-purpose beam profile. Since you've gone this far, getting an AVS head is logical. To achieve longer run times in 900 lumen mode (when using two 18350s) , a Charlie body is a nice addition to the Elzetta family.


----------



## kj2

Grizzman said:


> You're in trouble now.
> 
> You will now need to get a bored Bravo with M60 to contrast with the floody beam of the Alpha. Naturally, a different Bravo bezel with M61 engine is next, to enjoy the multi-purpose beam profile. Since you've gone this far, getting an AVS head is logical. To achieve longer run times in 900 lumen mode (when using two 18350s) , a Charlie body is a nice addition to the Elzetta family.


A Bravo or Charlie with AVS head, might be a next purchase. But first, I've see and try the Alpha 
There is a dealer here in Europe, but they've completely nothing in stock! I wonder why you become a dealer of a brand, and then decide to stock nothing. Can't see the logic of that :thinking:
Elzetta lights aren't cheap (and that is for a reason  ) but add tax (21%) and custom fees (€15), the price goes up fast.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

kj2 You are too honest for this world  I always ask company's to declare a value of $20 and to this day they all did as I asked. I once legit won a Go Pro 3+ Black edition from America and had to pay 65 euro taxes when it got here...


----------



## kj2

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> kj2 You are too honest for this world  I always ask company's to declare a value of $20 and to this day they all did as I asked. I once legit won a Go Pro 3+ Black edition from America and had to pay 65 euro taxes when it got here...


Most I ordered at, won't declare a lower value. They say the law prohibits that. 
But I'm a honest guy, I know


----------



## les_garten

kj2 said:


> Most I ordered at, won't declare a lower value. They say the law prohibits that. Can shoot the seller an email, asking if he is will to do.
> But I'm a honest guy, I know



You mat have an issue if it goes missing as well. Not sure about that though.


----------



## kj2

les_garten said:


> You mat have an issue if it goes missing as well. Not sure about that though.


If it's missing, it's missing. Declared value doesn't matter. Didn't opt insured shipping, so lost is lost. Or seller has to ship a new one.


----------



## ForrestChump

kj2 said:


> If it's missing, it's missing. Declared value doesn't matter. Didn't opt insured shipping, so lost is lost. Or seller has to ship a new one.



Yup, if its gone, all that insurance and honest tax value go out the window. If you did buy insurance good luck getting anywhere near what you paid for, if you know, you can get a insurance payment within the next 3-6 months.

:fail:



RI Chevy said:


> Thanks Forrest.
> I'd be willing to bet that they monitor this thread.



:thumbsup:


----------



## kj2

ForrestChump said:


> Yup, if its gone, all that insurance and honest tax value go out the window. If you did buy insurance good luck getting anywhere near what you paid for, if you know, you can get a insurance payment within the next 3-6 months.


Paid with PayPal, so they might help me if it doesn't arrive. But have faith in USPS and PostNL (Dutch post).


----------



## ForrestChump

kj2 said:


> Paid with PayPal, so they might help me if it doesn't arrive. But have faith in USPS and PostNL (Dutch post).



Yes, never had issue with PayPal as a buyer, as a seller, it's a complete failure. Also, imagine no import taxes on small trade like a flashlight..... It would be small business Utopia around the world, economies would swell with profits, likely bringing true financial progress in our new economic "normal". Now Im way OT.....


*Reel her back in someone...* We were just about to congratulate kj2 on his new acquisition. 

Congrats!


----------



## AVService

I really like mine

The tint is a pleasant surprise to me and the construction is just inspiring too!


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

It's a damn nice flashlight that's for sure.


----------



## RI Chevy

I really like that little Alpha too! Mine also has a very nice, unique tint.


----------



## nmiller

I have all three. Just ordered another alpha. By far my favorite light.


----------



## RI Chevy

I have 4 Elzettas, 2 Charlies, a Bravo, and an Alpha. They definitely grow on you.


----------



## kj2

Sounds like a real keeper  Can't wait for it to arrive.


----------



## nmiller

They do grow on you. Initially I was underwhelmed by the alpha and actually returned it. The second one I bought I realized how great of an edc it is with the high low switch. The beam pattern is great for most tasks and it has enough throw for me. If elzetta came out with a narrower optic for it the Alpha would be the most versatile light I own.


----------



## rob74

Hi All! 
I'm a new member to this forum and recently got an Elzetta alpha with a high/low tail cap. 

I noticed that if screwing and unscrewing rapidly the tail cap and therefore switching between high and low roughly 3 to 10 times the light remains stuck in low mode, no matter what position of the tail cap. 
The only way to get back to high mode is to switch it off for a few seconds and then back on. 
I tried different batteries , more and less charged and from different brands, same issue. 

Any thoughts?

Regards,

R


----------



## RI Chevy

Send them an Email and see what Dave has to say.


----------



## les_garten

In reference to being able to maintain one of these lights longterm, will a McClicky install in one of their tailcaps?


----------



## rob74

I did send them an email and they said that it is normal. 
But I still find it odd, potentially the light could remain stuck in low mode when high mode is needed. 
In addition to this I don't understand what the reason for this behavior could be. 
Could someone see if their light does the same? If that is not the case I'll have to return the light.


----------



## Grizzman

rob74 said:


> Hi All!
> I'm a new member to this forum and recently got an Elzetta alpha with a high/low tail cap.
> 
> I noticed that if screwing and unscrewing rapidly the tail cap and therefore switching between high and low roughly 3 to 10 times the light remains stuck in low mode, no matter what position of the tail cap.
> The only way to get back to high mode is to switch it off for a few seconds and then back on.
> I tried different batteries , more and less charged and from different brands, same issue.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> R



That is very odd. The high/low activation is achieved by a spring loaded pin (which passes the current through a resistor) that protrudes through the tailcap ring to make contact with the body before the ring contacts the body. Turning the light on or off should have no bearing at all on the output level.


----------



## Rob Babcock

rob74 said:


> I did send them an email and they said that it is normal.
> But I still find it odd, potentially the light could remain stuck in low mode when high mode is needed.
> In addition to this I don't understand what the reason for this behavior could be.
> Could someone see if their light does the same? If that is not the case I'll have to return the light.



Mine does it, too. A little annoying when I'm playing with it but in actual use I can't imagine it being an issue. I will leave mine in HIGH mode when I carry it; if I need to switch to low it shouldn't be a big deal if it takes some time to return to max power.


----------



## rob74

Thank you Rob, it makes me feel better that I'm not the only one.
Sending the light back for service for me would be very annoying because I live in Dubai. 
That said , I don't understand the reason (technical or operational ) for such a behavior.


----------



## rookiedaddy

@rob74, thanks for the heads-up. 
I tried doing it on both of mine, one of them have identical problem after twisting the tail-cap (switching mode) for 30-40 times, then the light no longer goes into high mode, instead, when tighten, it goes into a brightness that is about twice as bright as the low mode. Turn it off and waited for a second or two and the mode switching is back to normal, but it does it again after 30-40 turns (and sometimes less than 20 turns). 
Decided to give it a thorough cleaning and apply new grease to the thread and o-ring, together with a thin coating of DeoxIT Gold at the contact points, it's now working properly even after rapidly switching mode for >50 times. Not sure if doing the same will help yours, perhaps you wanna give it a try?


----------



## les_garten

It seems to me that there is some weakness in the Tailcap design.

I don't understand why they didn't put twice as many threads in the cap. There's tons on the barrel. 

I have 3 caps

Clicky
On--Strobe
Rotary

The Clicky works perfectly, except that there, IMO, is not enough thread engagement as on all the others and this culminates in a mess on the Rotary Tailcap

My On-Strobe need service, it has a rubbery like squeak and if you push in slowly it will go from momentary to on without the click and then can be difficult to get it to shut off no matter how many times you click it.

The Rotary-- Doesn't engage enough threads like all the others, but this is much worse here because the cap is shorter and when you rotate to turn it on, if feels loose in the threads as in like rocking in the threads. This is just because you had to back it off to turn it on and it is shorter than say the Hi Low or Strobe switch. Feels cheaply done, when that is definitely what they are not going for here.

Then there's the part where you have to degrease the crap out of the cap and body to get the old grease that contains gritty grease and regrease with Superlube.

Looks like they tried to get a little fancy here and created some problems.


----------



## Xacto

rob74 said:


> That said , I don't understand the reason (technical or operational ) for such a behavior.



Could there be some logic in the driver of the light? Since a rapid high/low switching looks to the driver like "high voltage, low voltage etc.." could that be interpreted as "oh, the battery is dying, lets stay in low mode." ?

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## peter yetman

Xacto said:


> Could there be some logic in the driver of the light? Since a rapid high/low switching looks to the driver like "high voltage, low voltage etc.." could that be interpreted as "oh, the battery is dying, lets stay in low mode." ?
> 
> Cheers
> Thorsten




And that's probably why it recovers when switched off for a bit.
P


----------



## rob74

That makes sense. Thanks guys. 

R


----------



## Grizzman

I've confirmed that it is battery dependent. I was able to get my range bag Alpha to do it, but my night stand Alpha would not. I swapped the IMR16340 and CR123 primary between the two lights, and the low only result followed the primary.

My Bravos and Charlies with AVS heads fed both li-Ion and primaries and a Bravo with M61N would not exhibit the behavior. It definitely seems like Alpha-specific logic regarding diminishing voltage of a single CR123.


----------



## mckeand13

les_garten said:


> It seems to me that there is some weakness kin the Tailcap design.
> 
> I don't understand why they didn't put twice as many threads in the cap. There's tons on the barrel.



I've asked Elzetta that exact question a few times and it goes unanswered. 

That is the only issue that makes them a "good" light rather than a "great" light in my book. Such a simple fix too. 

Elzetta, are you here and listening? Maybe you could explain the reasoning behind removing so much of the tailcap threads.


----------



## archimedes

mckeand13 said:


> ....
> 
> That is the only issue that makes them a "good" light rather than a "great" light in my book. Such a simple fix too.
> 
> Elzetta, are you here and listening? Maybe you could explain the reasoning behind removing so much of the tailcap threads.



Tailcap threads are my only significant concern with the Elzetta, too ....

They are so short and narrow that I have to take extra care to avoid cross-threading :sigh:


----------



## Rob Babcock

rob74 said:


> Thank you Rob, it makes me feel better that I'm not the only one.
> Sending the light back for service for me would be very annoying because I live in Dubai.
> That said , I don't understand the reason (technical or operational ) for such a behavior.



No problem. Again, to me I don't think it's a really huge problem. At least not for me. I will leave mine on high when I carry it, and only switch it to low for specific tasks. For pure tactical use (CCW or as a dedicated WML) I'd probably just to with the rotary tailcap instead. Maybe try the fix that rookiedaddy used.





rookiedaddy said:


> @rob74, thanks for the heads-up.
> I tried doing it on both of mine, one of them have identical problem after twisting the tail-cap (switching mode) for 30-40 times, then the light no longer goes into high mode, instead, when tighten, it goes into a brightness that is about twice as bright as the low mode. Turn it off and waited for a second or two and the mode switching is back to normal, but it does it again after 30-40 turns (and sometimes less than 20 turns).
> Decided to give it a thorough cleaning and apply new grease to the thread and o-ring, together with a thin coating of DeoxIT Gold at the contact points, it's now working properly even after rapidly switching mode for >50 times. Not sure if doing the same will help yours, perhaps you wanna give it a try?



Mine is still quite new with a bit of grease still in it. I'll probably try your fix but I'm not really worried about it for my application. I'll have to look around and see if I have DeoxIT Gold laying around (I am an audiophool, er _audiophile _so I might have some left over).


----------



## kj2

If the tracking info is correct, I should receive my Alpha tomorrow :twothumbs


----------



## Rob Babcock

I did want to comment on the Speed Clip issue. I saw it suggested somewhere that the clip doesn't have to go on the body, it will go on the tailcap, too. So I mounted mine right in the middle of the cap. It's rock solid works great there. It does rub the body a little when you turn the cap to change to low but it doesn't hurt anything, and I'm really liking the clip mounted there (it does allow it to ride considerably deeper in the pocket).


----------



## RI Chevy

Any photos?


----------



## kj2

kj2 said:


> If the tracking info is correct, I should receive my Alpha tomorrow :twothumbs


Damn it.. customs want to play first with my Alpha, before they forward it to me. And of course, add taxes with it.:thumbsdow


----------



## RI Chevy

They must recognize the name!


----------



## JPA261

Rob Babcock said:


> I did want to comment on the Speed Clip issue. I saw it suggested somewhere that the clip doesn't have to go on the body, it will go on the tailcap, too. So I mounted mine right in the middle of the cap. It's rock solid works great there. It does rub the body a little when you turn the cap to change to low but it doesn't hurt anything, and I'm really liking the clip mounted there (it does allow it to ride considerably deeper in the pocket).



Yes photos please. I know others have attached the clip between the body and tailcap, but never heard of it going on the actual tailcap


----------



## 880arm

JPA261 said:


> Yes photos please. I know others have attached the clip between the body and tailcap, but never heard of it going on the actual tailcap



Here's a pic from last year . . .



880arm said:


> An astute visitor to my site pointed out that the Elzetta clip works well when attached to the tailcap instead of the light body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried it out and I think it looks better and is more in proportion to the light. It will work with all switch types but it's best with the plain clicky.


----------



## Rob Babcock

RI Chevy said:


> Any photos?



I'll try to take one soon. Right now I can't find my "real" camera and my 'Droid doesn't like to play with my PC sometimes (hard to get it to recognize & transfer the photo file from the phone memory).


----------



## newbie66

kj2 said:


> Damn it.. customs want to play first with my Alpha, before they forward it to me. And of course, add taxes with it.:thumbsdow



Ouch! That is unpleasant...


----------



## Rob Babcock

RI Chevy said:


> Any photos?



These aren't the best pics; they're taken with my 'Droid and the image hosting site I usually use isn't working right at the moment so I can't crop or edit them. But you get the idea. The top pic shows pretty well the way the clip is attached on the tail cap instead of the body. The other two pics show it next to a variety of other lights for size comparison.


----------



## RI Chevy

Thanks for the pics. 
It is odd looking, if I must say.


----------



## peter yetman

kj2 said:


> Damn it.. customs want to play first with my Alpha, before they forward it to me. And of course, add taxes with it.:thumbsdow



Just received my Hound Dog 18650 head, cost me 50 US to bring through Customs.
P


----------



## RI Chevy

Yikes!


----------



## Rob Babcock

I just got my Prometheus Ti clip from Dark Sucks today, got it on my Bravo right now. It's very nice, quite slim and low profile.


----------



## Grizzman

Rob Babcock said:


> I just got my Prometheus Ti clip from Dark Sucks today, got it on my Bravo right now. It's very nice, quite slim and low profile.



It's the only clip I'll put on an Elzetta. Another clip's currently in the mail, but not for an Elzetta.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Grizzman said:


> It's the only clip I'll put on an Elzetta. Another clip's currently in the mail, but not for an Elzetta.



Which Elzetta lights do you have them on? And which tail caps? The clip seems to prevent my Twisty from being able to engage, but the Elzetta has to screw in much farther than a Surefire.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Apropos of nothing, you know what I really want? An 'Alpha 2'! It would be a two cell Alpha! Wouldn't that be a Bravo? No, it would have the same smaller, integrated head of the Alpha but a 2 cell body for either higher output or longer run time. Am I the only light nerd that would buy this? 💛😄


----------



## Grizzman

I've got them on Alphas, Bravos, and Charlies. They all have high/low tailcaps, and haven't experienced a condition in which the clip caused an issue.

It took me a few years to get one, but I'm growing fond of the low profile bezel. It's hardly any bigger than an Alpha's head, yet allows use of any Malkoff drop-in. An Alpha 2 may be a little shorter than a Bravo due to the optic.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Yeah, my Bravo has the Klingon head because it looks cool! But I think I will get a low profile head for EDC.


----------



## Rob Babcock

So when I got home today I slipped the Ti clip onto my Alpha. It fits fine although it rests on the head instead of the body due to the shortness of the light. I wish it rode a little deeper in my pocket but it seems secure. So of course now I don't have one on my Bravo, so I had to order a second one!

Does anyone know if the Malkoff clip (very similar design but stainless steel) will fit the Elzettas?


----------



## Grizzman

As long as the clip is adjusted so the clip is firm against the head, the light is secure in the pocket.

Yes, the Malkoff clip fits and works fine on the Alpha....it's just kinda ugly (but inexpensive).


----------



## pjandyho

I always wonder how you guys could still operate the hi/lo switch with that clip in place?


----------



## Grizzman

I switched between high and low a few times, with a one handed overhand grip, and had no problems. 

The clip has already been moved back to the 9P.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Wow, Grizzman- is there any light related item you don't own?:bow: Thanks for the pic, very cool! It is kind of homely compared to the svelte Ti sexiness of the Prometheus clip. But I have several good lights with sucky clips (I'm looking at you, JETBeam BC series!) so I don't want to drop $25 a pop to get the sexy ones for all of them. I did order another one from Dark Sucks to put back on my Bravo but I'll probably pick up a couple from Malkoff, too.


----------



## Rob Babcock

pjandyho said:


> I always wonder how you guys could still operate the hi/lo switch with that clip in place?



It doesn't affect the HI/LO on my Alpha. At first I couldn't tighten down the Twisty on my Bravo but after taking it off and putting it back on it worked fine. Maybe I cross threaded it the first time.


----------



## pjandyho

Grizzman said:


> I switched between high and low a few times, with a one handed overhand grip, and had no problems.
> 
> The clip has already been moved back to the 9P.





Rob Babcock said:


> It doesn't affect the HI/LO on my Alpha. At first I couldn't tighten down the Twisty on my Bravo but after taking it off and putting it back on it worked fine. Maybe I cross threaded it the first time.


Thanks guy. So it doesn't wobble or wiggle around when you loosen the tail cap for low output, am I right?


----------



## Rob Babcock

Nope, not a bit. At least not on mine. I dunno why it gave me trouble with the twisty but like I said, I might have cross-threaded the tailcap since it worked perfectly after I took it off and put it back on again. But flawless from the get go on my Alpha hi/lo. I've got another on one the way so I'll have one for the Bravo again. Great clip!

I'll note I did install the supplied O-ring that ships with the clip designed to keep it in place.


----------



## pjandyho

Rob Babcock said:


> Nope, not a bit. At least not on mine. I dunno why it gave me trouble with the twisty but like I said, I might have cross-threaded the tailcap since it worked perfectly after I took it off and put it back on again. But flawless from the get go on my Alpha hi/lo. I've got another on one the way so I'll have one for the Bravo again. Great clip!
> 
> I'll note I did install the supplied O-ring that ships with the clip designed to keep it in place.


Great! The reason why I have not bought an Alpha is because of the lack of a clip. Not sure if the Elzetta clip is a good choice. Now that I know that Malkoff's clip work fine, I can start considering the Alpha now.


----------



## Rob Babcock

The more I used the Elzetta Speed Ring the more I didn't care for it. Just by dumb luck I installed it very easily the first time. But every successive attempt has been very difficult, and my 2nd one just wont grip well no matter what I do. Probably there's a learning curve to it. But it's kind of bulky. That makes it kind of useful as a ring for certain gun/light techniques and it gives you something to grab when drawing the light from deep carry in a pocket. But I definitely prefer the Ti clip from Dark Sucks/Prometheus.

BTW, I have the that one, the Ti one. I can't comment on the Malkoff one but it appears to work just the same from Grizz's photos.


----------



## pjandyho

I think they should all work fine from what I see.


----------



## kj2

Received my first Elzetta today 
It really meets my expectations. Do have some questions though, I noticed the corona around the hotspot isn't round but has more of a square shape. Do others have this too? And the optic in my Alpha looks a bit turbid. Have taken the optic out and clean it with a micro-fibre cloth. Looks clear in daylight, but turbid when installed. Can someone help me on this?


----------



## ForrestChump

kj2 said:


> Received my first Elzetta today
> It really meets my expectations. Do have some questions though, I noticed the corona around the hotspot isn't round but has more of a square shape. Do others have this too? And the optic in my Alpha looks a bit turbid. Have taken the optic out and clean it with a micro-fibre cloth. Looks clear in daylight, but turbid when installed. Can someone help me on this?



The Alphas beam should be nowhere near a whitewall. I much rather they did this light more mule style then use an optic.

The only solution for the optic is to swap it out for the flood.

The square is common as well as the grit.


----------



## kj2

Just received an email from Elzetta, about the square. It's the led that reflects back in the optic. Do have to say, in the outdoors and even indoors I don't notice it. Also the turbid isn't visible in the beam.


----------



## ForrestChump

kj2 said:


> Just received an email from Elzetta, about the square. It's the led that reflects back in the optic. Do have to say, in the outdoors and even indoors I don't notice it. Also the turbid isn't visible in the beam.





I like Elzetta as a company. 

But the Alpha optic was a total no go for me.... twice with looong wait times between purchases. I have never returned a light for beam or tint quality till the Alpha.

Im not exactly sure how the beam goes overlooked so frequently. It's just not good... at all.

:shrug:


*There are many positive attributes to their lights*, so if your just jumping into Elzetta / this thread - I would check out their 2 cell AVS stuff first.


----------



## RI Chevy

Too many people shine the light close to the wall just to see the beam pattern. That is not what they were designed to do. Just grab the light and use it. The ALPHA is built heavy duty to be used in every day life. 
I happen to really like the beam and the tint on my ALPHA. Nice, strong, and compact. 
Skip the white wall hunting and just use it and enjoy.
I wish they made a red optic lens for the alpha.


----------



## Grizzman

I didn't notice the squarish corona until I was attempting to photograph the beam for a tint comparison....not once during weeks/months of typical usage.

Regarding the turbidity of the optic, if you can't see it and it does't affect the beam, does it matter? It doesn't to me.

While ordering a tailcap and other assorted items, I bought an Alpha optic to see if it would improve the beam of my less attractive specimen. It helped some, then I removed it, put it in the box and installed the flood optic. I'm a fan of Elzetta's flood.


----------



## ForrestChump

RI Chevy said:


> Skip the white wall hunting and just use it and enjoy.



Im the farthest thing from a whitewall hunter but when I have to adjust the orientation of the light to get the beam where I want it, it's kind of inconvenient. As I said there seems to be lots of people that are fine with it.


----------



## kj2

The squarish corona was just something I noticed, while trying out the light. As I said, in the outdoors I don't notice it. Tint on my Alpha is great. Not to warm, and really not cool. Just a nice nw tint 
Next on the list, a AVS Bravo


----------



## Rob Babcock

Very interesting comments! I have both the spot and flood optics for the Alpha, plus the spot and flood optics for the AVS head (currently on one of my Bravos). To be honest I'm a bit conflicted. It's true that for white wall hunting these optics aren't ideal but they're fantastic for actual use. I'm especially torn between the two options in the Alpha. The spot is really great, decent throw while still giving very useful spill. The perceived brightness really drops off with the flood but in in actual use it's astonishing how much area it will light up. I can definitely say that if I was using an Alpha or Mini CBQ on a firearm I'd definitely choose the flood lens, no question (unless I was setting it up for hog/varmint hunting). So it comes down to what I plan to do with the light. For camping and using around the house the flood is great. Not so great for shining around trying to illuminate a parking lot (perhaps scanning before going to your car); for this application the better throw might be ideal.

I will say that I am very happy with the tint of my particular Alpha. It's cooler than my AVS head but still fairly neutral compared to most of my other lights.

Recently I picked up another Bravo from a CPF member and swapped the Hi/Low cap onto my Bravo with the AVS head. I can report that it plays perfectly with the Prometheus Ti clip. No wobble or wiggle, and it doesn't shift around when you switch to Low. I will also point out that the Low setting works much better on my AVS head than with the Alpha. I get a rhythmic flicker with the low setting of my Alpha. It would be pretty annoying if I used Low for long periods.

I really like my Alpha but now that I have my fourth Elzetta (1 Alpha, 2 Bravos and a Charlie) the Alpha isn't getting used as much as I anticipated. Very often I wind up grabbing one of my Bravos which kind of surprised me. The Bravo is perhaps less than an inch longer, not as big a difference as I thought there'd be. Plus I recently got a Malkoff head for my Surefire E1b and it really transformed it. I had grown to like my Alpha a lot more than my E1b but with the new Malkoff head the matchup is a lot closer, and often the Malkoff/E1b combo wins out because the clip design allows it to ride deeper in my pocket than the Alpha. They wind up splitting time pretty equally now. It's a great arrangement since I have the flood optic in the Alpha right now. When I want a floodier beam I carry the Alpha, when I anticipate needing more throw I grab the Surefire/Malkoff.

Probably my favorite Elzetta at the moment in my Bravo with the AVS head, spot optic, Hi/Low cap and Prometheus Ti clip. This is very close to perfection and I can't imagine how it could substantially improved for me. Maybe I'll have to get the fancier Ti clip with the blue/fade anodizing!


----------



## pjandyho

Hi Rob,

You were using the Hi/Lo switch for the AVS Bravo on the Alpha? If that is the case then maybe that's why you are getting the flicker on low. I don't own an Alpha but I thought it is using a different Hi/Lo switch? If I am not wrong, the resistance level on the Alpha's tail cap is different from those on the Bravo.


----------



## Rob Babcock

No, the Hi/Low for my Alpha came on it from Elzetta. I probably wasn't very clear on that. The Alpha was my first Elzetta, followed by a Bravo, then a Charlie, then an AVS head then one more Bravo. I've only lego'd the Bravo/Charlie parts as I'm aware that the the Alpha one doesn't work. I'm not sure why the flicker on the Alpha; is this a flaw unique to my individual light? It's not so much a flicker as a steady beat/pulse that's noticeably brighter. The pulses are about 1.25-1.5 seconds apart. I should probably contact Elzetta. It isn't a serious issue given the way I use the light but a $150 light should probably be perfect.

The regular Hi/Low tail switch works perfectly on both Bravos and the Charlie, with all the different heads and drop ins I have tried. I get a good solid low with the AVS head, the M60 Malkoff/Elzetta and the M61N in my other Bravo.

I have every switch option except the tape switch (which I'll get before long) and the Hi/Strobe which I really don't have a need for. I deliberately wanted to try them all, and each has its virtues. The Twisty is nice in that it's very unlikely to activate in a bag and run completely down. But I think the Hi/Low is the best overall. The actual clicky is stiff enough that I doubt it will be turned on accidentally, and the operation is really great. The only downside is that it's pretty expensive. Still on a $200 light there's little point in cheaping out in order to save ten bucks.


----------



## pjandyho

I guess maybe there is a problem with the switch then. Maybe the pin that is controlling the hi/lo output on the tail cap is not working well or maybe there's some extra resistance? Contact Elzetta and see what they say. Like I said, I don't own an Alpha and can't be of much help but I don't think flicker is normal.


----------



## Xacto

Are you using primaries or rechargeable CR123s in your Alpha?

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## Rob Babcock

Primaries.


----------



## RI Chevy

Maybe the pin just needs to be cleaned?


----------



## Rob Babcock

Probably something to that. There's still a bit of lithium grease in it. I did take the tail cap off and generally cleaned it up and now it barely pulses at all. I could mess with it more but it's very minor and I'm pretty lazy!


----------



## kj2

Anyone picking up the 2015 Limited Edition Alpha?  Does look so good!


----------



## Slumber

kj2 said:


> Anyone picking up the 2015 Limited Edition Alpha?  Does look so good!



Can't find it.


----------



## kj2

Slumber Pass said:


> Can't find it.



http://www.elzetta.com/alpha-special-edition.html


----------



## JPA261

I do like the yellow, especially when there will soon be snow on the ground and will get dark sooner. I also like that elzetta decided to place their mini cqb bezel on their website. I found that bezel to be perfect for my needs. Not too sharp and able to see if the light is left on when it's bezel down.

So, it might be in my collection.


----------



## Slumber

JPA261 said:


> I do like the yellow, especially when there will soon be snow on the ground and will get dark sooner.



Just don't eat that yellow snow. [emoji16]


----------



## Rob Babcock

Very neat looking! Maybe...


----------



## RI Chevy

It was kept very quiet. I wonder what else is coming in the future?
I am more of an blaze orange kind of guy. I also wish it came with the high/low tailcap.


----------



## kj2

RI Chevy said:


> I also wish it came with the high/low tailcap.


Me too.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Yeah, the High/Low is the way to go. I missed that it doesn't have that, too bad.


----------



## ForrestChump

Slumber Pass said:


> Just don't eat that yellow snow. [emoji16]



I hate yellow.

But this is pretty neat looking.

Red would be cooler.

Yellow snow is an acquired taste. :green:


----------



## Grizzman

My question is:

Can a high/low switch be screwed into a clicky tailcap? If so then the special edition high/low is just a tailcap-guts swap away.


----------



## Lumencrazy

A standard flashlight painted with a yellow paint is a special edition?


----------



## 880arm

Grizzman said:


> My question is:
> 
> Can a high/low switch be screwed into a clicky tailcap? If so then the special edition high/low is just a tailcap-guts swap away.



I had the same thought. I'm pretty sure the tailcaps are the same but I haven't actually tried it yet.


----------



## Grizzman

Lumencrazy said:


> A standard flashlight painted with a yellow paint is a special edition?



A flashlight with the words "special edition" electro-pencil'd by the factory onto the body can be considered a special edition. I'd say this one qualifies as well.

In this example, in addition to the yellow Cerakote finish (paint), it has the bezel that is otherwise unique to the he Mini-CQB light.


----------



## monanza

What'r'u talking about man? It eats fish and climbs walls. That's why it's a Limited Edition :duh2:. Did I mention it is also an eye-searing yellow? Anyway, I'll get mine on Thursday barring any shipping mishaps. Per Elzetta, all their LEs are clicky switch only (in response to whether a high-low cerakote was possible). I guess I will have to implant hi/lo guts into the clicky.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

I bought a yellow one. I have a couple three cells and like them a bunch, so I might as well, right?  Wish it were high/low, but it makes sense to just make one version if you are doing a limited number of them.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Grizzman said:


> A flashlight with the words "special edition" electro-pencil'd by the factory onto the body can be considered a special edition. I'd say this one qualifies as well.
> 
> In this example, in addition to the yellow Cerakote finish (not paint), it has the bezel that is otherwise unique to the he Mini-CQB light.




Cerakote is a ceramic material suspended in a two-part epoxy matrix (binder) applied with a paint gun. It is, in fact ,a standard epoxy paint technology with the addition of wear resistant fillers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zCjfqE8XME


----------



## Grizzman

Lumencrazy said:


> Cerakote is a ceramic material suspended in a two-part epoxy matrix (binder) applied with a paint gun. It is, in fact ,a standard epoxy paint technology with the addition of wear resistant fillers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zCjfqE8XME



I agree that it is an applied finish, not an alteration of the base material like anodize or ferritic nitrocarburizing. I'd hardly call it paint....which is a quite generic term for the stuff that's on my house walls and car.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Grizzman said:


> I agree that it is an applied finish, not an alteration of the base material like anodize or ferritic nitrocarburizing. I'd hardly call it paint....which is a quite generic term for the stuff that's on my house walls and car.



Paint is a term used to describe an applied coating that sits as a protective film on the surface of a product. Unlike, for example, anodizing, and nitrocarburizing which consists of a chemical modification of the interfacial region of the actual material being treated.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

Let's just find some middle ground, and call Cerakote "Very Special Paint" and get back to talking about flashlights.


----------



## Grizzman

For those looking for a more pocket friendly, but still scalloped, bezel for the Alpha, the Mini-CQB bezel is available for individual purchase.


----------



## ForrestChump

Grizzman said:


> My question is:
> 
> Can a high/low switch be screwed into a clicky tailcap? If so then the special edition high/low is just a tailcap-guts swap away.



From my understanding Alpha tailcaps are different than normal, or is that just hi low caps?. All things being equal, with both being Alpha switches, I would almost guarantee a perfect gut swap. Makes things simpler, saves on production, lowers inventory costs. 

@ thread - This is absolutely a Special edition..... The cerakote is done with what I assume is Elzetta's (_exterior) _amazing fit and finish. Plus the addition of the new bezel and engraving.

Do that all on your own and it would likely be nut$ for a single unit. They came up with something unique and are selling them in limited quantities. Special Edition. Knife companies do this all the time.


----------



## RI Chevy

I think the Alpha High/Low tailcap guts are unique to the Alpha due to using a different resistor. The low values are different than the Bravo/Charlie lows.


----------



## 880arm

RI Chevy said:


> I think the Alpha High/Low tailcap guts are unique to the Alpha due to using a different resistor. The low values are different than the Bravo/Charlie lows.



Yup, they use a different resistor but as far as I know the guts are otherwise the same. I haven't tried swapping them out but I don't see why it couldn't be done.

Meanwhile, I had a mail call today!










The Cerakote finish is definitely bright! It looks good and seems to be very evenly and thoroughly applied. It does make the surface of the light feel a bit smoother. I hesitate to call it slick, after all the body is still knurled, but it definitely has a different feel than the anodized aluminum finish. I like the Mini-CQB bezel and even ordered a separate black one to try out on one of my other Alphas. Like Grizz mentioned, it's a lot more pocket-friendly than the regular crenelated bezel.

There are a few more photos and other random thoughts here.


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool little light! Different.


----------



## mckeand13

Very nice looking 880arm. 

Did they fix the damn tailcap threads yet?

I'd like to order an Alpha but will not until they leave more thread engagement in the tail caps.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Very nice! I really want one but I've already got an Alpha (and this would be my fifth Elzetta in a month!).


----------



## monanza

My first Elzetta came home today. I love it; very engaging UI: click on, click off, repeat.  I do have one question though, why call it a clickie when there is absolutely no click (neither in sound nor feel)? It should be called a smoothie.  Color wise, it is easier on the eye than the pictures led me to believe. It is now pining for a baby brother in Orange and another in Red (that's like twins, eh), maybe a blue, or a burnt bronze . What to do? Custom cerakote calls for me. OK, I refuse to end up with 10 Alphas; I am putting my foot down, nine is my absolute max.


----------



## 880arm

I had a flashback to the 3rd grade tonight and had some arts and crafts fun with glow in the dark paint and the LE Elzetta Alpha. Somehow it seemed fitting for such a bright yellow flashlight.


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool shot! 
I wonder how many SE yellow Alpha's were made?


----------



## Kid9P

Looks like no more yellows, can't find any


----------



## qmtu

I received mine today.
The beam is floody, with no hotspot, better than the standard Elzetta Alpha!


----------



## bykfixer

Looks like the Bravo 113 is on my must have list.

The hi/lo (smoothie) tail cap is intriguing.
No doubt I'll have some other parts for it at some point as the twistie tail cap thing is growing on me. 

But first I gotta finish paying for the sure fire and malkoff collection I've acquired since joining cpf.


----------



## bykfixer

Looks like the Bravo 113 is on my must have list.

The hi/lo (smoothie) tail cap is intriguing.
No doubt I'll have some other parts for it at some point as the twistie tail cap thing is growing on me. 

But first I gotta finish paying for the sure fire and malkoff collection I've acquired since joining cpf.


----------



## RI Chevy

Wow. You're on a tare! 
My suggestion to you would be to pay for the high/low tailcap option. Well worth the extra money, and gives you a tactical option.


----------



## bykfixer

I just saw on their site they sell them separately...
Hmmm, MD2 with ho lo front and hi lo rear? 
Hmmmm

I like that they use M60's. Nothing wrong M61's, but an 8° reflector...oh my!


----------



## pjandyho

bykfixer said:


> I just saw on their site they sell them separately...
> Hmmm, MD2 with ho lo front and hi lo rear?
> Hmmmm
> 
> I like that they use M60's. Nothing wrong M61's, but an 8° reflector...oh my!


Not too sure about the M60. My only regret is wasting money ordering the complete light when I should have just gotten the host only and run it with my M61w, which is exactly the setup I am currently using. The M60 on mine is a little too cool for a cool white (more towards bluish), and the beam is ringy even in actual use and not white wall hunting. Couldn't get used to the beam and so the M60 got ditched in the drawer.


----------



## RI Chevy

Bykfixer:

I don't think the Elzetta tailcaps fit anything else but Elzetta hosts. But along your train of thought, you could get a M361 which has 3 modes, and use an Elzetta high/low tailcap and essentially get 6 modes out of the setup.


----------



## peter yetman

*Elzetta tailcaps will fit 6P type tail threads but........
This an answer to a question I posed to ElectronGuru a while ago, it may help.....


Re: Questions - Oveready / TorchLAB*





Originally Posted by *peter yetman* 

 
Morning,
Any idea if an Elzettea Hi/lo switch would handle the current on my Mini Turbohead?






*The Elzetta AVS head is similar (if not as bright) so it may well handle the juice. But it may not matter as Elzetta uses unique extra short tail threads, so the fit of Elzetta tailcaps on SF type bodies is inelegant at best. *​


----------



## RI Chevy

I should have clarified a little more, but I meant the high/low tailcap wouldn't fit 'PROPERLY' on other hosts, due to the exact reason you mentioned.


----------



## neutralwhite

Elzetta folks, I have my Elzetta bravo and alpha ( may 2015 ) up for sale.
Gmail me if your interested. 

[email protected]


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks for heads up on the tailcap _and _ the 60 beam. 

All I've read lately is how the 60 is sooooo much better than the 61. 

I have a couple of lights with the M61 in N mode for ones I want the light to 'appear' brighter than it is. But my favorite is definitely the W series. Matter of face I have a WL scheduled to arrive tomorrow. 

And I have to keep saying no, no, no to the 361N, but my ocd keeps saying yes, yes, yes...so in time that drop in will be in one of my lights.


----------



## RI Chevy

If you like warm tints, then be sure to get the AVS head for your Elzetta. The AVS head puts out a ton of warmish light! Then you don't have to worry about the drop in.


----------



## bykfixer

Intriguing.

I will certainly look into that. 



Thank you again for your clarification to this 'good' light newb.


----------



## RI Chevy

There are a few nice reviews done by a fellow member. Go to flashlightguide.com and search for Elzetta. Definitely a good read if you haven't already done so.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ thank you.

That place has steered me away from a few it's and eased my cautious-ness about others.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

pjandyho said:


> Not too sure about the M60. My only regret is wasting money ordering the complete light when I should have just gotten the host only and run it with my M61w, which is exactly the setup I am currently using. The M60 on mine is a little too cool for a cool white (more towards bluish), and the beam is ringy even in actual use and not white wall hunting. Couldn't get used to the beam and so the M60 got ditched in the drawer.



I agree, the M61 beam is better for me for most uses, but I like the M60F a lot for being in the woods. I just wish they would make warmer versions of it.


----------



## Grizzman

I've got lots of M61s, but only one cool M60. I also really like the M60WF, which I bought here, for indoor use.


----------



## RI Chevy

The M60's in any variant are a must have for any flashaholic, and are a classic. Especially a hand engraved M60! They are a keeper. They provide excellent run times.


----------



## kj2

Hand engraved Elzetta's? Never seen those. Any pics?


----------



## RI Chevy

A hand engraved M60 made by Mr. Malkoff himself. Prior to selling the rights over to Elzetta.


----------



## kj2

RI Chevy said:


> A hand engraved M60 made by Mr. Malkoff himself. Prior to selling the rights over to Elzetta.


Just saw a photo over at CPF Marketplace. Hand engraving is a nice personal touch


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

Grizzman said:


> I've got lots of M61s, but only one cool M60. I also really like the M60WF, which I bought here, for indoor use.



I have a couple of M60LFs I love for hiking, but a warm version would be amazing!



RI Chevy said:


> A hand engraved M60 made by Mr. Malkoff himself. Prior to selling the rights over to Elzetta.



The only one I have is an M60LL... which is an odd and amazing drop-in due to it's weird ability to run forever on two alkaline AAs.


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice!


----------



## bykfixer

Pulled the trigger on an A113 hi/lo kit that comes with 2 spare cells and a lanyard ring. 

Love my Coast HP1, but I get blasted with 220 lumens everytime. The A113 gives me the option of 5 lumens to start with.


----------



## kj2

bykfixer said:


> Pulled the trigger on an A113 hi/lo kit that comes with 2 spare cells and a lanyard ring.
> 
> Love my Coast HP1, but I get blasted with 220 lumens everytime. The A113 gives me the option of 5 lumens to start with.



Really like mine. Tint is warm but that's great for color rendering. Only thing I would like to see, is RCR support.


----------



## bykfixer

Glad to hear you like it.

I had pulled the trigger before discovering it doesn't have the Malkoff LED. But I can live with that.

It's meant to be a partner to the Sure Fire Gx2 Pro I have. Bought that one knowing you get what you get with the head. Same with the Alpha.

Seems to be meant as a bad guy blinder at close quarters and not some football field length spotlight. That and USA made are why I picked it over the others on my wishlist.


----------



## Grizzman

Elzetta always recommends the use of primaries for critical use situations. That does not mean that Li-Ions can't be used when the light is in an EXC, non-tactical role. I believe Jim asked them if Li-Ions are safe to use and was told that they are. 

I use an IMR 16340 exclusively in an Alpha, and it works great, with a significant bump in output.


----------



## kj2

Grizzman said:


> Elzetta always recommends the use of primaries for critical use situations. That does not mean the Li-Ions can't be used when the light is used in an EXC, non-tactical role. I believe Jim asked them if Li-Ions are safe to use and was told that they are.
> 
> I use an IMR 16340 exclusively in an Alpha, and it works great, with a significant bump in output.


In that case, I've to try my Eagletac


----------



## bykfixer

Unless things have changed...
Every time I'd set something that contains rechargeables down for a couple of weeks I'd have near dead or dead batteries. 
So I haven't been interested in any rechargables expect eneloops.
Now if todays crop of rechargeables have shelf life like the eneloops...or my Dell duo laptop I'm all over that. 


Do the batteries you guys use hold a charge? A month or two?


----------



## kj2

bykfixer said:


> Do the batteries you guys use hold a charge? A month or two?


My Eagletac branded 16340 holds his charge well. Charge every li-ion I've each 2-3 months when not used.


----------



## Grizzman

bykfixer said:


> Do the batteries you guys use hold a charge? A month or two?



Yes, all my Li-Ion and IMR cells hold a charge for multiple months with little reduction in resting voltage. It sounds like your cells need to find a new home.


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks!!! 

I haven't used rechargeables in years. It's why I was asking.


----------



## les_garten

bykfixer said:


> Thanks!!!
> 
> I haven't used rechargeables in years. It's why I was asking.



Mine hold a charge for a year or so easily. Main reason why I switched


----------



## bykfixer

^^ and with that I pulled the trigger on some nite cores and a charger. 

Thanks for the answers. Sounds like 015 is a great time to have rechargeables...03 was not.


----------



## Skaaphaas

Used my Alpha for a three day camping trip in Big 5 country. I am in love with this light. The low beam works for everything up close, while the high provides plenty light to check the surrounding bushes to see if something with big teeth isn't stalking you. 

The warmish tint helps with colour rendering (doing owl spotting at night, and checking the meat on the fire).

4 nights of intense use now and the battery is still going strong, which was my only concern with this light.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ nice!

Got confirmation the alpha has shipped...
Sunday evening? Who'd-a thunk it?


----------



## RI Chevy

These little really are cool!.


----------



## dpadams6

*Elzetta charlie*

I just purchased an elzetta charlie, and noticed that under the lens, it appears like the side coating is missing or chipped off. It's this normal?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Elzetta charlie*

I will be moving this posting to one of the on going Elzetta threads.

Bill


----------



## richbuff

*Re: Elzetta charlie*



Bullzeyebill said:


> I will be moving this posting to one of the on going Elzetta threads.
> 
> Bill


Reading the pinned topics and/or the banner at top, before posting: One of the forumospheres' best kept secrets! 

*dpadams6* :welcome:


----------



## AMD64Blondie

*Re: Elzetta charlie*

Eagerly looking forward to ordering my new Elzetta Charlie from amazon.com once my next pay check hits.

Be nice to have a 900 lumen light that can take a serious beating.


----------



## dpadams6

*Re: Elzetta charlie*



AMD64Blondie said:


> Eagerly looking forward to ordering my new Elzetta Charlie from amazon.com once my next pay check hits.
> 
> Be nice to have a 900 lumen light that can take a serious beating.


I'm sure you will like yours, as much as i like mine. It's probably the most solid light i own. Like a tank.


----------



## BloodCleanSoul

*Re: Elzetta charlie*



dpadams6 said:


> I just purchased an elzetta charlie, and noticed that under the lens, it appears like the side coating is missing or chipped off. It's this normal?



Mine has looked similar. Remove the lens and clean it off.. Be careful not to touch the back of the lens as you put it in....I've found that helps to clean it up and get rid of the smudges that make it look like that.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

*Re: Elzetta charlie*

Will the Elzetta Charlie handle rechargeable CR123 batteries?

(I know they recommend only using primary CR123 batteries,but I'd rather have a cheaper option then replacing 3 batteries at a time.)


----------



## RI Chevy

You could probably use them in a Bravo, not the Charlie. The voltage input for a Charlie may be to high with 3xRCR123A's. I wouldn't risk it. But your safe with a Bravo.

As far as your lens is concerned, contact Doug at Elzetta and run the issue by him and see what he has to say. Go right to the source instead of getting hearsay.


----------



## Grizzman

Elzetta doesn't specify the maximum allowed voltage for the Charlie. The RCR123s will be delivering ~12 volts, which could easily be too much for the driver to handle. A better solution would be the use of two 17500 cells. Some here have reported that the length of the 17500s presents a problem with tailcap operation, but my Charlies work fine with AW 17500s. 

Having the Charlie bored for 18mm cells allows for the use of IMR 18490s, which should resolve the fitment concern. I'm definitely going to have Oveready bore one of my Charlies in the upcoming bore batch for this exact reason.

Another option is to use two RCR123s and an insulated aluminum spacer cell. A Charlie is currently set up in this config with a flood optic as my night stand pistol light. I prefer the lower output level for this use case.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Thanks I'll probably go with 2 17500 batteries.


----------



## bykfixer

Well the Alpha arrived yesterday. 

Ok being a Coast fan-boy, it doesn't take much water to float my boat. And this light does not disappoint. 

It's for pocket carry so no clip is needed for my use. I still checked out the Malkoff clip on it. 
Way better than the thingy Elzetta sells. But the gap between the tail cap and the body is not filled by the clip. Using an o-ring from a million-billion count o-ring kit from Harbor Freight filled it in nicely. 

Wife just brought me a bowl of chocolate ice cream smothered in a caramel sauce...more later.

Edit:
Ok, the hi lo tailcap exibits some of the weird symptoms when turning the light on. As in it's set on low and when pressed for momentary the light briefly turns on high like an LED Lenser P7. But not everytime like the P7. A slight twist on the cap makes the issue cease. 

The lo setting is great for 2am nature calls, yet is also bright enough to aid in lit rooms when a shadow needs lighting. 

On high, there is a hot spot. It's there, just not real pronounced like we're used to. I like it myself. Others may not. It seems as though Elzetta wasn't going for distance but for maximum illumination spread over an area. 

Overall I'm thinking this light is a lot better for my pocket carry than the Coast HP1 I've been carrying. 
Way tougher, much tougher finish, and the hi/lo tail cap is certainly handy. My HP1 is smaller, lighter, easier to turn on, tail stands, floods just as well and has a much better throw. And at $10 if it breaks, gets lost or stolen no biggie. I can but 14 more before reaching the cost of the Alpha.

Yet the Alpha is so so much nicer...
Eh, I'll carry both.





And when somebody says "hey buddy, got a light?" I have choices to offer.

Edit:
A few night pix in the rain.

These pix were shot on a cel phone with 0 ev, auto white balance and posted with no alterations beyond cropping and resizing to 800 wide resolution. 



^^ a definite spot seen at 10'




^^ back away another 8-10' and things really change.




^^ add another 50' and it gets 'floody'.
It's a nice even light overall.




^^ 35' spot size checker pic. 
The even lighting shows the alpha is a close quarters blinder




^^ a view of things at 75'




^^ no flashback what-so-ever. 
Just nice, even lighting from 40' to 140'

Now for a couple of 7 lumen pix.
Plenty of light for 2am darkness without interupting night vision...




^^ a 10' test.




^^ and you can still easily see obstacles from 50'.
That's the two sheds near the car.


----------



## Grizzman

*Re: Elzetta charlie*



dpadams6 said:


> I just purchased an elzetta charlie, and noticed that under the lens, it appears like the side coating is missing or chipped off. It's this normal?



If you slightly loosen the bezel, the artifacts should disappear. My first AVS exhibited this, though not to this degree. It didn't impact the head's output or beam pattern. It seems to be caused by contact between the optic and the white plastic optic holder.

The optic and associated holder are designed to be removed, so there's no risk of damage by removing the bezel ring.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

*Re: Elzetta charlie*

Would it be better to buy my new Elzetta Charlie (think I'm going to get the C133 model) direct from elzetta.com,or from Amazon.com?

(BTW,I can't wait until I get my next paycheck...)


----------



## RI Chevy

I'd get it right from the source!
Elzetta.com


----------



## bykfixer

Well the site is going to charge retail.

I went to the site, found some dealers on their dealer map, and found one of them selling on Amazon.
It was $8 less than the elzetta site. 

Then I found a dealer who had one for $8 less and threw in a spare pair of battery stations and a lanyard ring...and $0 shipping. (That one shipped today)

Now for an added bonus, if you find one at the bottom of the flashlight guide review amazon gives that site a small part of the dough while you pay the price amazon would charge if you found it by regular search. Helps keep that great review site going.


----------



## RI Chevy

Go with whatever you feel comfortable with!


----------



## bykfixer

^^ this....can't go wrong going through elzetta.

I ordered some accessories through their site on Wed night. According to the tracking they arrive today. They send stuff priority 2-3 day cheap. 
$6.95


----------



## AndrwTNT

I'm going to pick up an Alpha with H/L tailcap and was going to throw one of the Prometheus clips on there. This might be a dumb question, but I wanted to know how to clip/O-ring will stay in place in the case of loosening the tail for low mode.. Is the rotation drastic enough to cause a noticeable gap between the body and tail cap where the clip and o-ring are? If this is just a matter of me thinking too much about it and not an actual concern then please excuse me. I'm just not familiar with the function of the H/L model. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Skaaphaas

When tightened to high mode there is still a gap between the tailcap and body.

I use the Raven pocket clip which is quite thick, and it sits nice and tight when the tailcap is on high, but when rotated to low the clip can rotate around the body. 

I'm considering making the Raven clip fit around one of the two grooves on the tailcap itself.


----------



## AndrwTNT

Ahh okay, good to know. I'd be interested to see your light with the clip around the groove. I might consider rigging up some paracord with a constrictor knot as an alternative. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Grizzman

I've run Prometheus clips on all my Elzettas and they work very well in high and low. 

In my opinion, there is no better solution.


----------



## bykfixer

Malkoff MD2 clip works too. (Or those similar flea-bay ones sold by solarforce sellers)
Put an oring between body and tail cap to fill the gap.
I'll post a pick of the alpha with it later...




^^ the clip I speak of on a Klarus.


----------



## AndrwTNT

Thanks guys, I think I'll pick up a H/L Alpha and a Prometheus clip to start off. Sounds like a good mix.


----------



## vudoo

Are Malkoff drop ins conservative in their output figures? I had a M61W which is rated at 200 OTF lumens. Seemed more to me...


----------



## Strintguy

Vudoo, I agree that my Malkoff M61's seem much brighter than the stated lumens. Maybe they are true out-the-front listings...


----------



## RI Chevy

vudoo said:


> Are Malkoff drop ins conservative in their output figures? I had a M61W which is rated at 200 OTF lumens. Seemed more to me...


Wrong thread. Maybe send a PM to a moderator and have them move these 2 posts to the Malkoff thread. And delete mine.


Strintguy said:


> Vudoo, I agree that my Malkoff M61's seem much brighter than the stated lumens. Maybe they are true out-the-front listings...


----------



## mckeand13

AndrwTNT said:


> I'm going to pick up an Alpha with H/L tailcap and was going to throw one of the Prometheus clips on there. This might be a dumb question, but I wanted to know how to clip/O-ring will stay in place in the case of loosening the tail for low mode.. Is the rotation drastic enough to cause a noticeable gap between the body and tail cap where the clip and o-ring are? If this is just a matter of me thinking too much about it and not an actual concern then please excuse me. I'm just not familiar with the function of the H/L model. Thanks in advance.



I just checked the tailcap rotation on mine. From tight (high) it just has to be cracked loose to shift to low. Very little rotation is required.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ what you'll notice in time is if you place your thumb across the tailcap (instead of just the button) and press, you'll get a momentary hi. 

If you twist the cap about 1/3 to 1/2 rotation that feature is defeated.

I had one arrive that way and Elzetta says it's by design. My second one does it somewhat, but not as easily as the first one did...yet it's getting easier as I use it.


----------



## AndrwTNT

mckeand13 said:


> I just checked the tailcap rotation on mine. From tight (high) it just has to be cracked loose to shift to low. Very little rotation is required.





bykfixer said:


> ^^ what you'll notice in time is if you place your thumb across the tailcap (instead of just the button) and press, you'll get a momentary hi.
> 
> If you twist the cap about 1/3 to 1/2 rotation that feature is defeated.
> 
> I had one arrive that way and Elzetta says it's by design. My second one does it somewhat, but not as easily as the first one did...yet it's getting easier as I use it.


Appreciate the info. Gives me a better understanding of the functions of the tailcap. I'm excited to mess around with it now. Thanks again.


----------



## bykfixer

Well when Alpha 1 showed up I thought 'uh oh, a flaw' then the 2nd one didn't so I emailed them.
They said it's by design to do that and advised me if the second doesn't in time, let 'em know...and in time it does now....

Alpha 1 I feel a definite 'click' when twisting away from the 'turbo' mode when I reach the non-turbo area.
Have yet to experience that with Alpha 2.


----------



## AndrwTNT

bykfixer said:


> Alpha 1 I feel a definite 'click' when twisting away from the 'turbo' mode when I reach the non-turbo area.
> Have yet to experience that with Alpha 2.


Really? It clicks when you twist out or High? Is that from breaking the seal of the O-ring or is it an actual click from the mode changing? That's interesting..


----------



## bykfixer

^^ feels like the pin pops out

Maybe click is the wrong word. Pop would probably be better.

Anyway yeah, when you get to about a half turn from tight with my Alpha #1 there is definitely a pop of some sort.

Don't feel it with my Alpha #2...


----------



## Grizzman

Does the pop still occur with the cell(s) removed? My guess is that it's the tailcap spring, not the high/low activation pin.


----------



## mckeand13

bykfixer said:


> ^^ what you'll notice in time is if you place your thumb across the tailcap (instead of just the button) and press, you'll get a momentary hi.
> 
> If you twist the cap about 1/3 to 1/2 rotation that feature is defeated.
> 
> I had one arrive that way and Elzetta says it's by design. My second one does it somewhat, but not as easily as the first one did...yet it's getting easier as I use it.



There's nothing "by design" about that. It's the axial slop in the threads between the body and tailcap allowing the tailcap to move back and forth a small amount. It just happens to work as a "high/low" by pushing within a very small range of rotation. It certainly wouldn't be easy to repeat in a pressured situation and I would never rely on that "feature" working.


----------



## mckeand13

Grizzman said:


> Does the pop still occur with the cell(s) removed? My guess is that it's the tailcap spring, not the high/low activation pin.



+1


----------



## les_garten

mckeand13 said:


> There's nothing "by design" about that. It's the axial slop in the threads between the body and tailcap allowing the tailcap to move back and forth a small amount. It just happens to work as a "high/low" by pushing within a very small range of rotation. It certainly wouldn't be easy to repeat in a pressured situation and I would never rely on that "feature" working.



I agree with this assessment. I have not been impressed with their tailcap design some of it's issues.


----------



## Skaaphaas

mckeand13 said:


> There's nothing "by design" about that. It's the axial slop in the threads between the body and tailcap allowing the tailcap to move back and forth a small amount. It just happens to work as a "high/low" by pushing within a very small range of rotation. It certainly wouldn't be easy to repeat in a pressured situation and I would never rely on that "feature" working.


I find it incredibly irritating and make sure I turn the tailcap out far enough to disengage this "feature".


----------



## AndrwTNT

mckeand13 said:


> There's nothing "by design" about that. It's the axial slop in the threads between the body and tailcap allowing the tailcap to move back and forth a small amount. It just happens to work as a "high/low" by pushing within a very small range of rotation. It certainly wouldn't be easy to repeat in a pressured situation and I would never rely on that "feature" working.





Skaaphaas said:


> I find it incredibly irritating and make sure I turn the tailcap out far enough to disengage this "feature".


The more I think about it and with this additional input (not having operated the light myself yet) I'm starting to understand the issue differently. It sounds more like the same type of 'feature' that can be created on some twisty lights where you twist it just a hair before ON and you can squeeze the head or tail against the body and make contact to produce a sort of momentary on. In this case, I would agree it isn't necessarily a feature as much as a type of hack which I suppose could be useful in some applications. Either way, I'm excited to try it out. I feel I have a much better understanding of the UI now. I'm glad everyone has chimed in about this.


----------



## Grizzman

Here's something else to contemplate. If the threads were a precise fit (like MD2) there would be no possibility to loosen the tailcap with one hand. Even if the treads were only as tight as a 6P, it's very likely that one handed operation would be quite difficult. 

I happily accept this "feature/flaw" to have one handed operation.


----------



## AndrwTNT

Grizzman said:


> Here's something else to contemplate. If the threads were a precise fit (like MD2) there would be no possibility to loosen the tailcap with one hand. Even if the treads were only as tight as a 6P, it's very likely that one handed operation would be quite difficult.
> 
> I happily accept this "feature/flaw" to have one handed operation.


Great point


----------



## mckeand13

Grizzman said:


> Here's something else to contemplate. If the threads were a precise fit (like MD2) there would be no possibility to loosen the tailcap with one hand. Even if the treads were only as tight as a 6P, it's very likely that one handed operation would be quite difficult.
> 
> I happily accept this "feature/flaw" to have one handed operation.



The threads of an MD2 aren't really any more precise than an Elzetta. In an MD2, both the body and tailcap are raw aluminum allowing electrical contact regardless of tailcap position. In an Elzetta, the the body threads are raw, but the tailcap is anodized. That requires electrical contact to me made entirely through the pogo pin/ring.

MD2's use more squish on their tailcap o-rings also which makes it hard(er) to turn. I like that, as on an MD2 there's no reason to turn a tailcap other than replacing a battery. This tightness is due to the o-ring but may be interpreted as "tighter" threads. Threads always have some clearance built in which varies by class of thread.


I can't stand Elzetta tailcaps because of their (lack of) threads. I've specifically told them I won't buy another one of their lights until it's changed, but their reply was basically "we like our parts and we aren't changing them". Their loss I guess. Many people have shared their thoughts about crappy tailcap thread here but that doesn't seem to matter to Elzetta. Just have to buy MD2's all of the time I guess.


----------



## bykfixer

mckeand13 said:


> There's nothing "by design" about that. It's the axial slop in the threads between the body and tailcap allowing the tailcap to move back and forth a small amount. It just happens to work as a "high/low" by pushing within a very small range of rotation. It certainly wouldn't be easy to repeat in a pressured situation and I would never rely on that "feature" working.




Hey,
Didn't mean to start a tug of war/fish measuring contest...just answered a persons question by passing on *what Elzetta told me*.

I like the feature and have found it easy to duplicate.

And no I have not tried it without batteries. Aint that big of a deal to me. 

Yeah, the lack of threads is a bit of a turn off. But I knew that going in and find the Alpha is a fine, floody pocket light that serves my purpose.


----------



## mckeand13

I would love to buy an Alpha. I think they are sweet lights! I just can't bring myself to do it because of my frustrations with the threads and their response.


----------



## RI Chevy

I also agree that the Elzetta hosts just need about 3 or 4 more thread turns to make the tailcaps screw on more securely. It is a little unnerving to see that the tailcaps only screw on a few turns before stopping. 
All in all, they are still a great light.


----------



## bykfixer

My Alpha tail cap comes off with 5-1/2 twists.
My G2x comes off with 7 or 8.. Streamlight?...try like 12-15...

In a tactical situation where seconds matter and it's battery swapping time I can have the cap off and battery inserted into the Alpha in the time it takes to remove the tail cap of a Sure Fire. 
The tapered thread at the beginning of the Alpha may be what causes folks to feel uneasy. 




^^ I don't get all the hub-bub

I can physically rip the cap off the Sure Fire with a half turn to go. The Alpha...rips off at the last fraction of a turn.

The secret is to ensure when starting out with putting back the Alpha cap is let the cap go where it wants, and not trying to force it. The stiff spring seems to push the cap away. 
But with practice...it goes back together way faster than those caps with more threads.


----------



## RI Chevy

I just checked my ALPHA. 2 and 3/4 full turns until the tailcap spring pops the cap off. 
High/low tailcap.

My BRAVO popped off tight at 2 full turns with the High/Low tailcap.


----------



## Grizzman

bykfixer said:


> My Alpha tail cap comes off with 5-1/2 twists.
> My G2x comes off with 7 or 8..



5 1/2 rotations? Is it a high/low? Mine comes off after 2 1/4 rotations. 

I guess I didn't think the o-rings would make that much of a difference. It makes sense considering the tailcaps are interchangeable.


----------



## bykfixer

I said "twists"....
Don't know about you but I use twists to remove tailcaps...maybe you rotate the light?

One handed it takes about 12 twists to get the Alpha cap off. But the stiff spring sorta launches the cap...not a 'boing, there it went' thing but an uneasy feeling...which in a tactical situation in darkness would not be good.

Ya gotta remember, these lights were designed by mechanical engineers who's mindset is being shot at while you shoot back. 
And guessing by the beam of the Alpha I'd say it's a pistol mounted design where close quarters actions are taking place...not rifle mounted where throw is a big deal.


----------



## Skaaphaas

2.75 turns on my hi/lo tailcap as well. But it really doesn't bother me one bit.


----------



## RI Chevy

Just to clarify, I unscrewed my ALPHA by using the "Z" on the rubber boot as a guide, and took a visual. Then I did half turns noting the "Z" and counted one full rotation as one turn. 
I know this is trivial, but just trying to clarify it so we're all on the same page.


----------



## bykfixer

About 2-1/4 "rotations" on mine.
Using light forward, left logo as the starting point.

Two hands, holding cap still the logo went past twice, then light was about half way between left logo and right logo.

A couple of tries yielded as much as 2-3/4 before the cap let go....
I suppose sometimes I fasten it down further. 
Or some tries were from it being twisted to low mode, as I keep it rotated about a half turn from tight to avoid the turbo mode for everyday use.


----------



## RI Chevy

That sounds more in line with what we all have.

I think about 5 full turns would be optimal. The 2 to 3 turns puts a lot of pressure on just the last couple of threads on the host.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ agreed....

Now my nitrolons? Yeah I want lots n lots of threads.

I do like that faster removal thing though when there's no time to waste. 
Now my Alpha will likely never be used in combat. But I do like trying to climb into an engineers head to know just what that guy was thinking sometimes and I honestly believe the shorter threads thing is designed to save time.


----------



## Skaaphaas

RI Chevy said:


> The 2 to 3 turns puts a lot of pressure on just the last couple of threads on the host.


I understand the concern better now, thank you.

On the general Alpha topic, what colour temperature would you guys say the tint is? I'm trying to figure out a frame of reference for myself. I'm not sure if this is warm, or creamy white, ot neutral white? I just know it looks a lot warmer (and more pleasant on the eye) than my SF P2X.


----------



## RI Chevy

Makes the host a little shorter as well. It is still a very stout light though!
Just thinking optimal or utopian.


----------



## AndrwTNT

Skaaphaas said:


> On the general Alpha topic, what colour temperature would you guys say the tint is? I'm trying to figure out a frame of reference for myself. I'm not sure if this is warm, or creamy white, ot neutral white? I just know it looks a lot warmer (and more pleasant on the eye) than my SF P2X.


+1


----------



## Lumencrazy

bykfixer said:


> I said "twists"....
> Don't know about you but I use twists to remove tailcaps...maybe you rotate the light?
> 
> One handed it takes about 12 twists to get the Alpha cap off. But the stiff spring sorta launches the cap...not a 'boing, there it went' thing but an uneasy feeling...which in a tactical situation in darkness would not be good.
> 
> 
> How many degrees is your twist? Everybodys can be different so it remains undefined.


----------



## Grizzman

On the subject of tint, I've own d two Alphas and they were both identical. To my eyes, which don't perceive colors exactly like your eyes, their CCT is solidly in the very warm realm. 

Keeping the comparison within the extended family, it is a near perfect match to my engraved M60W and M60W MC-E I used to own. I think these were specified as 3000K CCT. 

They are significantly warmer than my M61Ns and AVS heads. The Alphas are also warmer than my old 3700K M91AW.


----------



## mckeand13

Grizzman said:


> On the subject of tint, I've own d two Alphas and they were both identical. To my eyes, which don't perceive colors exactly like your eyes, their CCT is solidly in the very warm realm.
> 
> Keeping the comparison within the extended family, it is a near perfect match to my engraved M60W and M60W MC-E I used to own. I think these were specified as 3000K CCT.
> 
> They are significantly warmer than my M61Ns and AVS heads. The Alphas are also warmer than my old 3700K M91AW.



I'm really surprised that they are building their lights with warm tints. I like that, but most manufacturers are after lumens so they use cool whites.


----------



## bykfixer

Lumencrazy said:


> bykfixer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said "twists"....Don't know about you but I use twists to remove tailcaps...maybe you rotate the light?One handed it takes about 12 twists to get the Alpha cap off. But the stiff spring sorta launches the cap...not a 'boing, there it went' thing but an uneasy feeling...which in a tactical situation in darkness would not be good.How many degrees is your twist? Everybodys can be different so it remains undefined.
> 
> 
> 
> Really?
> Thought that was settled on the last page with the word rotation being the benchmark.
> 
> Point of saying 12 twists was to point out it takes twice as long to get the cap off 1 handed vs 5 twists with 2 hands.
> 
> Yeah the Alpha beam color definitely slants in the warm direction. Warmer than any of my G2x lights that I had considered were leaning warm tinted.
Click to expand...


----------



## RI Chevy

Lumencrazy said:


> bykfixer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said "twists"....
> Don't know about you but I use twists to remove tailcaps...maybe you rotate the light?
> 
> One handed it takes about 12 twists to get the Alpha cap off. But the stiff spring sorta launches the cap...not a 'boing, there it went' thing but an uneasy feeling...which in a tactical situation in darkness would not be good.
> 
> 
> How many degrees is your twist? Everybodys can be different so it remains undefined.
> 
> 
> 
> The only way to get an accurate measurement so that we are all on the same page is to count 1 full turn of the tailcap as one rotation. Other than that I don't see any other way to get an accurate benchmark.
Click to expand...


----------



## les_garten

RI Chevy said:


> Lumencrazy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way to get an accurate measurement so that we are all on the same page is to count 1 full turn of the tailcap as one rotation. Other than that I don't see any other way to get an accurate benchmark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy with bad arthritis, may take him 127 twists to get 360 degrees...
Click to expand...


----------



## RI Chevy

Lol. True.


----------



## RI Chevy

I just did a quick check of a few lights, a M31 219B, a M31WL, a M61 NLL, and the ALPHA. My best call is the ALPHA is a Neutral tint about 3900K. Slightly warmer than the M61NLL. Definitely not anything close to the M31WL, and the M31 219B is much more on the cool side, but still Neutral. 
The ALPHA is a very uniquely tinted little light. Nice CRI. 
On the same thoughts, my CHARLIE with the AVS head running on 2x18500 Sanyo cells is much warmer than the ALPHA., with a nice CRI.


----------



## AndrwTNT

Wow I knew they had warm tints but didn't think they were THAT warm… Sounds like I'll enjoy it :twothumbs


----------



## bykfixer

^^ nice!

You will...shortened threads and all.
I really like the 7+/- lumens for lighting shadows or 2am nature calls.
Very similar to an incan Mag Solitaire if you're familiar with those. About like lighting a jar candle. 

It don't tail stand without help. That would be my only quibble. But I didn't buy it to tailstand. I bought it to possibly afix to a pistol some day. In the meantime it's a mighty fine pocket light I use as a night stand light.


----------



## Skaaphaas

It works as a gun-light. A friend of mine used one at an IDPA night shoot at our club. I used my 6P, and I saw that operating a pistol and a light is far easier with the Alpha than the 6P. That's where I first saw the Alpha, and it's pretty much there where I decided that I needed one. 

Anyway, we had shots out to 30yds, through a 2x2ft aperture about 5yds away from the shooter. The Alpha, even with it's floody beam, worked well for him.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ good info.

The Alpha's useable spot range is short for such a bright light but at 50 yards it still beats nothing....


----------



## AndrwTNT

bykfixer said:


> I really like the 7+/- lumens for lighting shadows or 2am nature calls.
> Very similar to an incan Mag Solitaire if you're familiar with those. About like lighting a jar candle.
> 
> It don't tail stand without help. That would be my only quibble. But I didn't buy it to tailstand. I bought it to possibly afix to a pistol some day. In the meantime it's a mighty fine pocket light I use as a night stand light.



That's one of the things I loved was the 'Low' output. I've been using my McGizmo Sapphire for nature calls trips in the middle of the night cause it's low enough for me to see where I want to go without ruining my night adapt vision and low enough to not wake the sleeping beauty. Sounds like the Alpha will be a great alternative with the option to switch to high in the rare cases I need to see what's creeping around outside while 'paying the water bill'. I'm also planning on using it on a firearm in the future so this; 



Skaaphaas said:


> It works as a gun-light. A friend of mine used one at an IDPA night shoot at our club. I used my 6P, and I saw that operating a pistol and a light is far easier with the Alpha than the 6P. That's where I first saw the Alpha, and it's pretty much there where I decided that I needed one.
> 
> Anyway, we had shots out to 30yds, through a 2x2ft aperture about 5yds away from the shooter. The Alpha, even with it's floody beam, worked well for him.


..is great news as well!


----------



## Lumencrazy

bykfixer said:


> ^^ good info.
> 
> The Alpha's useable spot range is short for such a bright light but at 50 yards it still beats nothing....



Deleted


----------



## bykfixer

Lumencrazy said:


> Deleted



I'm sorry I missed the pre-edit...
Musta been a doozey.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

SWEET!!! Just ordered my new Elzetta Charlie C133(direct from elzetta.com).

Can't wait to get it.

Also going to order up my new AW 17500 batteries.
(I'll run it off of the included CR123 batteries at first,then switch to the 17500 batteries when they arrive.)


----------



## lightlover

bykfixer said:


> But the stiff spring sorta launches the cap...not a *'boing, there it went'* thing ...



bykfixer, 
I LOL'd at that - beautifully put! 

I have a few/plenty memories of *- eventually - *finding small but important components, but days or weeks after the event!

EDIT: Still cracking up now!


----------



## bykfixer

AMD64Blondie said:


> SWEET!!! Just ordered my new Elzetta Charlie C133(direct from elzetta.com).
> 
> Can't wait to get it.
> 
> Also going to order up my new AW 17500 batteries.
> (I'll run it off of the included CR123 batteries at first,then switch to the 17500 batteries when they arrive.)



They come with a sticker and a hand signed thank you on a chunk of elzetta sticky notes.

Enjoy



lightlover said:


> bykfixer,
> I LOL'd at that - beautifully put!
> 
> I have a few/plenty memories of *- eventually - *finding small but important components, but days or weeks after the event!
> 
> EDIT: Still cracking up now!



Not a problem if you edc a magnet. lol
Btw my mechanic does...a shirt pocket type. 
I saw him at a July 4th event and dude had it clipped to his t-shirt collar. (+:


----------



## bykfixer

I edc a magnet mah-self...








^^ leather clad money clip.
Doubles as a washer picker-upper.

It doesn't pick up the Alpha cap though. 
The shirt pocket type does. 

Alpha on low was used to light pic 2

Edit:
There were $20's in there before joining cpf.


----------



## vudoo

Do the new AVS heads also take Malkoff dropins?


----------



## Grizzman

vudoo said:


> Do the new AVS heads also take Malkoff dropins?



No, they do not.


----------



## vudoo

What is the general consensus on the AVS heads? I like that you can swap lenses from flood to throw easily


----------



## Grizzman

I've seen very few negative comments regarding them.

The spot optic gives a very nice beam profile, with a tight central spot and generous spill. The flood optic really lights up a room/area well.

The tint is great, especially with the flood optic.

They're small enough to be comfortable in a front pants pocket.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Dude....sweeet!!!!!!

My new Elzetta Charlie just shipped.


----------



## Rob Babcock

vudoo said:


> What is the general consensus on the AVS heads? I like that you can swap lenses from flood to throw easily



I love the AVS head! Output is great and the color is pretty warm-to-neutral (better than the Alpha IMO color-wise). It's awesome to be able to change lenses, too.


----------



## vudoo

Besides the Malkoff dropins, anyone make custom Elzetta dropins?


----------



## vudoo

I just took the plunge and ordered my first Elzetta light, a bored bravo with HO AVS head. I am going to run it on 2x18350 batteries to get the 900 lumens. [emoji33][emoji33]


----------



## kj2

Just in! 






Next to his little brother


----------



## bykfixer

GOOD SCORE!!!

How do you like the Elzetta clip?


----------



## kj2

bykfixer said:


> GOOD SCORE!!!
> 
> How do you like the Elzetta clip?



It's ok. Clips and holds well, but find it sometimes hard to clip on my pants. Like the clip on my SF E1D led defender more.


----------



## vudoo

Wow....that clip rings looks huge!


----------



## kj2

Looks big, but isn't to bad.

Did some measurements. The plastic ring part of the clip, makes the total diameter 3mm larger. Measuring the plastic ring where the metal clip is attached, it's about 6mm.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ yeah, I had heard/read complaints about it.

Was thinking the Klarus P1C clip, but they use the same one for the C (123 size) as the A (AA size) which pops off the Alpha easily. 

The Malkoff/Solarforce type is a ring, but without spacers of some sort between the body and cap it's kinda flippy-floppy and annoying.

I like the Elzetta lanyard ring, but since the alpha is so small I just carry mine in my pocket.


----------



## Grizzman

As I've said before, the Prometheus clip, with included black o-ring, is the best I've found (and likely that will ever exist). On high, it is clamped in place very tightly. On low, it can be rotated, but it doesn't move unless I want it to.

I don't recall the last time I ran my AVS'd bored 2-cell ZFL-M60 from 18350s. I prefer the long runtime I get from the fully adequate 500 lumen output of an 18650.


----------



## kj2

Just did my evening dog walk, with my newly Bravo. It preforms way better than I expected. Nice warm-neutral tint and lights-up a nice area in front of me. My SF P1R does throw further but has a CW tint which washes out the natural colors. Have the High/Strobe tailcap for self-defense. Did notice that it's quite a fast Strobe.


----------



## JPA261

Grizzman said:


> As I've said before, the Prometheus clip, with included black o-ring, is the best I've found (and likely that will ever exist). On high, it is clamped in place very tightly. On low, it can be rotated, but it doesn't move unless I want it to.



I have tried almost every thing for the Alpha. Raven concealment, elzetta speed clip, lanyard ring, and the thyrm switchback but can't find one that is comfortable. 

Maybe I'll try the Prometheus clip. Does that effect the water resistance having the spacer o ring?


----------



## Grizzman

JPA261 said:


> Does that effect the water resistance having the spacer o ring?



Not at all.


----------



## tab665

has anyone done an emitter swap on the AVS head? wonder what the beam would be like with a XP-L HI.


----------



## Grizzman

Is anyone going to take advantage of the sale?


----------



## JPA261

Grizzman said:


> Is anyone going to take advantage of the sale?



Oh yeah! Might pick up another Alpha to mount on my AR. Who knows, I might even pick another Bravo.[emoji3]


----------



## vudoo

Grizzman said:


> Is anyone going to take advantage of the sale?



What sale?


----------



## RI Chevy

I think the code is only for lights, not accessories. I tried the code with a lens, some oring kits, and a hat, but it didn't accept it.


----------



## RI Chevy

Enter code FALLBACK for 20% savings.


----------



## Grizzman

The sale info was sent out via e-mail. It ends on Saturday.


----------



## vudoo

On the Elzetta website? I am not a member


----------



## RI Chevy

EMAIL that was sent out.


----------



## bykfixer

I saw it at their facebook page.


----------



## RI Chevy

Good only for complete lights only.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Nice!!! My new Elzetta Charlie (with the AVS high-ouput head..) just arrived.

Of course the first thing I stupidly did was,take it in my dark bathroom..aim it at the mirror..and turn it on full blast.

(Ow...my eyes..)


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice. That is a powerful light! How do you like the tint?


----------



## AMD64Blondie

It's great.

I think I've finally found a light that I can't kill.


----------



## RI Chevy

Excellent! Enjoy.


----------



## AndrwTNT

Finally back from vacation and have the Alpha ordered (with nifty discount :naughty. Excited to try this thing out!


----------



## kj2

Had the Alpha and Bravo with me last night. First I thought my Alpha had a warm tint, until I compared it with my Bravo. Against the Bravo, my Alpha looks cool.


----------



## RI Chevy

I think the Alpha is closer to Neutral. But I have the same experiences with mine.


----------



## vudoo

Does your bravo have the HO AVS head? What temp do you think it is?


----------



## RI Chevy

I would guess in the 3800 to 3990K level.


----------



## kj2

vudoo said:


> Does your bravo have the HO AVS head? What temp do you think it is?



Yes. It's about the same tint as my ArmyTek Wizard warm, so I rate it at about 4000K.


----------



## AndrwTNT

Well the Alpha came in the mail today. I love this thing so far… The tint is nice and warm, great beam and best of all it's tough. Even carrying it from this afternoon all day at work, I've already put a few scratches on it which is totally fine with me cause my lights aren't shelf queens. The rubber boot was a bit stiffer than I had imagined but I actually like it because of how silent the click is. Great light.. Thanks everyone for the prior advice!


----------



## AndrwTNT

(double post)


----------



## Rob Babcock

I love my Alpha! I do wish that I'd have known how limited the yellow one was, I'd have got one right away. As it is I missed out. Still the black is cool. I have a Ti clip from Prometheus on mine.


----------



## vudoo

Got a pic of the alpha with the clip?


----------



## Grizzman

Here are a couple photos of the Alpha with Prometheus clip.


----------



## kj2

That looks way better than the Elzetta clip.


----------



## AndrwTNT

Rob Babcock said:


> I love my Alpha! I do wish that I'd have known how limited the yellow one was, I'd have got one right away. As it is I missed out. Still the black is cool. I have a Ti clip from Prometheus on mine.


I was thinking the same thing. I would love to have the yellow cerakote version. I might have to cerakote mine.. I'm still back n forth on the prometheus clip however. Grizzman your photos keep tempting me, but I just don't know how I'll feel about the rotating clip when in Low (since that is what it will be in a majority of the time). I suppose the only way to find out is to get the darn thing and try it myself.. :shrug:


----------



## kj2

AndrwTNT said:


> but I just don't know how I'll feel about the rotating clip when in Low (since that is what it will be in a majority of the time). I suppose the only way to find out is to get the darn thing and try it myself.. :shrug:


Haven't thought about that yet. Photos look tempting indeed, but $13 shipping to my doorstep is quite steep. Since it fits in a simple envelop..


----------



## Grizzman

AndrwTNT said:


> I'm still back n forth on the prometheus clip however. Grizzman your photos keep tempting me, but I just don't know how I'll feel about the rotating clip when in Low (since that is what it will be in a majority of the time). I suppose the only way to find out is to get the darn thing and try it myself.. :shrug:



How much do you loosen the tailcap...only enough to achieve low, 1/8 turn, 1/4 turn?

When it's barely tight enough to deliver solid output, no amount of shaking causes the clip to move. The more it's tightened against the o-ring, the harder it is to rotate the clip. 

If you don't like the way it works, I'm sure someone here would happily buy it from you for a slight discount (including me).


----------



## vudoo

Grizzman said:


> Here are a couple photos of the Alpha with Prometheus clip.



Thanks Grizzman for the photos. I would have to agree, it looks so much better than the stock clip yet it still doesn't look right? Maybe it's the clip colour or the design but it just doesn't seem to go together? [emoji848]


----------



## AndrwTNT

kj2 said:


> Haven't thought about that yet. Photos look tempting indeed, but $13 shipping to my doorstep is quite steep. Since it fits in a simple envelop..



Yeah that's tough getting something so small shipped international. The shipping gets to be almost as much as the item itself if not ordered with other items to make it worth it :/



Grizzman said:


> How much do you loosen the tailcap...only enough to achieve low, 1/8 turn, 1/4 turn?
> 
> When it's barely tight enough to deliver solid output, no amount of shaking causes the clip to move. The more it's tightened against the o-ring, the harder it is to rotate the clip.
> 
> If you don't like the way it works, I'm sure someone here would happily buy it from you for a slight discount (including me).


I only loosen it enough to achieve Low without having accidental High (from pressure on the cap) so yeah about a quarter turn. Good call though on passing it along if it ended up not working to my liking, I'm sure I wouldn't have any trouble finding it a second home..


----------



## mckeand13

Is anybody using a 16340 (AW ICR123) in an Alpha on a regular basis?

I haven't seen a voltage range published for the Alpha. 

Thanks.

**edit** just found the answer here:
http://www.elzetta.com/blog/batteries/

"While rechargeable versions of CR123A batteries, known as RCR123 cells, may be used in Elzetta Alpha and Bravo Models for non-critical applications (i.e. dog-walking, maintenance chores, etc.) they should never be used when one’s life or safety is one the line."


----------



## dpadams6

mckeand13 said:


> Is anybody using a 16340 (AW ICR123) in an Alpha on a regular basis?
> 
> I haven't seen a voltage range published for the Alpha.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> **edit** just found the answer here:
> http://www.elzetta.com/blog/batteries/
> 
> "While rechargeable versions of CR123A batteries, known as RCR123 cells, may be used in Elzetta Alpha and Bravo Models for non-critical applications (i.e. dog-walking, maintenance chores, etc.) they should never be used when one’s life or safety is one the line."



Whats wrong with the rechargeables?


----------



## rob74

I have used rcr123 in my alpha for a while but stopped after the light died on me all at the sudden when mostly needed (as it usually happens). 
A temporary solution for me was to create a habit of charging the battery once a week or so. 
Eventually I switched back to primaries...


----------



## bykfixer

Not really up on battery innerds myself. 
But if Mr. Malkoff, Elzetta and Sure Fire say primaries...who am I to argue?
I doubt it's because those batteries bring in so much revenue though. 

But I suppose it has to do with reliability during repeated shocks. 
Yet the hound dog comes with an 18650....

I'M SOOOO CONFUUUUUUUSED!!!!


----------



## dpadams6

bykfixer said:


> Not really up on battery innerds myself.
> But if Mr. Malkoff, Elzetta and Sure Fire say primaries...who am I to argue?
> I doubt it's because those batteries bring in so much revenue though.
> 
> But I suppose it has to do with reliability during repeated shocks.
> Yet the hound dog comes with an 18650....
> 
> I'M SOOOO CONFUUUUUUUSED!!!!



Me too. Most of my lights are 18650 and I've never had any problems.


----------



## Grizzman

dpadams6 said:


> Me too. Most of my lights are 18650 and I've never had any problems.



Unless you have them mounted on .30 cal and above rifles, it's unlikely you'll have a problem.


----------



## bykfixer

Yeah, the weapons lights have being treated with disrespect in mind when designed. 

For dog walking or camping they're fine.

But when you're in a foxhole or urban combat situations and your life is at stake...I supposed there is something about a rechargeable that is not potentially as certain to go when you absolutely, positively need it to go. 

I have a Klarus P1 that about 1 outta 20 times has to be clicked a second time to go. It's got an eneloop.
Putting out the trash or scoping the property does not present an issue.
Yet the next time it fails to light first try it's going to the shelf queen status. Cause it aint like my lawnmower where if it don't start first try I have time.
I carry flashlights as part of a personal protection package, not a pocket toy collection.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Has anyone checked the current draw on an Alpha with a CR123 and an RCR123? Also, any runtime tests done.

Bill


----------



## Grizzman

I've been running an Alpha exclusively from an AW IMR 16340. The output from the IMR is definitely higher than it is from a CR123....approximately 400-423 vs 315 lumens.


----------



## Grizzman

Here are the tailcap measurements for my Alpha.

AW IMR 16340 ~1.05 Amp
Unused CR123 ~ 1.35 Amp the cell showed 3.255v resting


----------



## mckeand13

Grizzman said:


> Here are the tailcap measurements for my Alpha.
> 
> AW IMR 16340 ~1.05 Amp
> Unused CR123 ~ 1.35 Amp the cell showed 3.255v resting



Grizzman,

At first I thought it was strange that you were saying you got moire output from the IMR. I forgot about the voltage difference between a CR123 (~3.1V) vs IMR (~3.7V). That higher voltage probably requires less current.


----------



## RI Chevy

I was wondering the same thing. Lol


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Grizzman said:


> Here are the tailcap measurements for my Alpha.
> 
> AW IMR 16340 ~1.05 Amp
> Unused CR123 ~ 1.35 Amp the cell showed 3.255v resting



Thanks for info. A runtime using bounce and a light meter would be very interesting.

Bill


----------



## Slumber

Bullzeyebill said:


> Has anyone checked the current draw on an Alpha with a CR123 and an RCR123? Also, any runtime tests done.
> 
> Bill



This one if from flashlightguide.com (aka 880arm). I hope he doesn't mind me reposting this.


----------



## elzetta56

*just purchased a charlie today 

i will test the beam out tonight... to see if i will keep it

first impressions are its built like a tank, i hope the light output matches the build quality*


----------



## grr

elzetta56 said:


> *just purchased a charlie today
> 
> i will test the beam out tonight... to see if i will keep it
> 
> first impressions are its built like a tank, i hope the light output matches the build quality*


You will like it


----------



## Grizzman

elzetta56 said:


> *just purchased a charlie today
> 
> i will test the beam out tonight... to see if i will keep it
> 
> first impressions are its built like a tank, i hope the light output matches the build quality*



Did you order a Charlie with the standard head, or a Charlie with the High Output AVS head?

The standard Charlie's M60 based light engine isn't exactly impressive.


----------



## elzetta56

AvS head
Yep im keeping it:thumbsup:
Most unique beam ive seen, not a "circle of light" but more of a gradual erosion of light once you,get outside the 2 distinct hot spots
I like being able to select low or high prior to hitting the button


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Every time my Elzetta Charlie hits my desk..(on accident)...I'm more worried about denting my desk,instead of the light.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ right on!!! 

Poor desk.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Thankfully my desk is a 200-lb solid wood monster.

(It held up my old-now sadly dead and gone- HP A7217A 24-inch wide screen CRT monitor-that thing weighed 93 lbs-with no problems..)


----------



## kj2

Ordered a Darksucks clip for my Alpha, today. Hope it suits me better than the Elzetta clip.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ please post your impressions.

So far the unofficial poll gives the elzetta version a thumbs down.

But their lanyard ring is a goody.


----------



## kj2

Will do. Carried my SF E1D Defender today, and like that clip so much. Very good retention but still easy enough for a quick grab.


----------



## Grizzman

bykfixer said:


> So far the unofficial poll gives the elzetta version a thumbs down.



Really?


----------



## elzetta56

*my charlie is just flat out bad ***. The more i use it the more I like it....the only thing I havent gotten used to is the button on hi/lo for momentary or constant on, it lacks tactile feedback to know how far you have to push it to know if its been pressed far enough for constant on.*

The low beam is perfect for indoors or even closeup work outside, the high beam will do whatever I could want

I really like the color temp of the LED ..not tooo white like a blue white

Not sure how it could be better


----------



## RI Chevy

Practice makes perfect!


----------



## elzetta56

The title of this thread should be 
"The industry's best"


----------



## Grizzman

Once the switch has been pressed far enough to latch, it can't really be pressed any further. The simple answer is that if ya want constant on, press it all the way. If ya don't, then don't press it all the way.


----------



## bykfixer

RI Chevy said:


> Practice makes perfect!



This

Virtually silent, a little on the stiff side..yeah it does take some getting used to. 

A quarter turn should get you low


----------



## RI Chevy

Just takes a little getting used to. Awesome lights though!


----------



## AMD64Blondie

elzetta56 said:


> The title of this thread should be
> "The industry's best"



Damn straight...


----------



## Skaaphaas

I only have one Elzetta, the Alpha. It is by far my favourite light. 

So that I had a huge box of CR123 brought from the USA as they cost about $4 each over here.


----------



## kj2

Skaaphaas said:


> So that I had a huge box of CR123 brought from the USA as they cost about $4 each over here.


I pay around $1.80 for each online. Few months back I found a store selling them for $8.60 each.


----------



## Str8stroke

I usually get my CR123s directly from Surefire. Last time I bought a case, during a sale, it came to $2 a battery. That is directly through their website, including shipping too. Not to shabby. They usually run a sale around Christmas and New Years. I guess they are clearing out inventory.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Thanks for the tip.

Elzetta and Malkoff sell battery stations.
Buck 95 as Elzetta ($6.95s&h), even 2 bux at Malkoff $(8.95s&h).

I buy 10 at a time...why not an even dozen? Guess I've been around metric numbers too long?


----------



## Skaaphaas

Paid $53 for a box of 50 Titanium Innovations cells from Battery Junction on Amazon. So I have those, and 3 dozen Surefire batteries. Should keep me for a bit.


----------



## RI Chevy

Was there a date code on those cells?


----------



## Skaaphaas

Not that I can see? It only says "made in PRC". The box doesn't smell when opened.

The black plastic around the positive terminal is different to my year old CR 123s, in that the old ones had four cutouts in the plastic, the newer ones don't, it's just a solid plastic ring around the terminal.


----------



## kj2

Have read this about TI, this morning. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/411177


----------



## peter yetman

So glad you and I use Elzettas and Malkoffs. It's dangerous out there.
CPF should be required reading for every flashlight user. As if that's gonna happen.
P


----------



## Skaaphaas

Oh hell! I specifically bought these as I read in another thread that they were sort of all right batteries. Geez. I assumed they were American made CR123s.

What sort of amperage does the Alpha draw on high mode?

Edit - Found it in the linked thread. Seems below the 1.5A threshhold.


----------



## Skaaphaas

I really am a tool. Even just a cursory read in the batteries subforum shows where the TI is made and why Selfbuilt won't use them. 

Okay, so they seem fine for use in the Elzetta, but I'll use the Surefire batteries in my Fury.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Skaaphaas said:


> I really am a tool. Even just a cursory read in the batteries subforum shows where the TI is made and why Selfbuilt won't use them.
> 
> Okay, so they seem fine for use in the Elzetta, but I'll use the Surefire batteries in my Fury.



Surefires, are re-branded Panasonics CR123A’s made in the US. Battery Junction sells current manufacture Panasonics (don’t buy the photo wrapped battery it is too expensive) at the best prices. They were out of stock this week with a new shipment coming in soon http://www.batteryjunction.com/1pcencr3voph.html. Panasonics are mil-spec and the cases are laser welded as opposed to crimped cases common to batteries imported from overseas.


----------



## mckeand13

Lumencrazy said:


> Surefires, are re-branded Panasonics CR123A’s made in the US.



Just curious, how do you know this or where is that information available?


----------



## bykfixer

Oh, where the heck did I see that?

But I read an article about the Pansonic factory and the fact it was in the US. It's a joint venture with Tesla.

It mentioned it is the only battery making facility in the US making 123 cells.

And it mentioned SF, SL, Battery Junction and another I forget just now are made there.


----------



## elzetta56

Ive read 123 battery testing where panasonic and surefire and duracell among others all tested well butnstill had differing results....maybe made differently or to dofferent specs?


----------



## 1DaveN

Elzetta says that all the US-made CR123As are rebranded Panasonic, made to the same specs in the same plant. I happened to have the link handy since I just posted it in another thread.

http://www.elzetta.com/blog/cat/news/post/batteries/


----------



## elzetta56

http://www.powerstream.com/cr123a-tests.htm
*not arguing justnpointing these tests out*

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?67078-123-Battery-Shoot-Out


----------



## Lumencrazy

bykfixer said:


> Oh, where the heck did I see that?
> 
> But I read an article about the Pansonic factory and the fact it was in the US. It's a joint venture with Tesla.
> 
> It mentioned it is the only battery making facility in the US making 123 cells.
> 
> And it mentioned SF, SL, Battery Junction and another I forget just now are made there.



That is a different plant. It will be the largest factory in the world producing Panasonic’s NCR 18650B Lithium-ion battery for automotive and energy storage uses. http://electrek.co/2015/05/18/new-drone-footage-from-teslas-gigafactory/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuDfFmUcJso


----------



## Scott007

I am very impressed with the Elzetta Bravo 650 Lumen 95% run time regulation. I want to purchase this light but I have two concerns:
1) Is there enough throw to reach 200 feet? Or is this light mainly for closer use. If I'm looking for my car, I want to be able to light it up well enough to make sure it's mine.

2) The AVS 650 lm/900 lm came out over two years ago. Is it now considered old and getting a replacement soon?


----------



## elzetta56

The AVS uses Cree's XM-L2 i believe
As an owner of the charlie AVS, im not seeking more lumes, if a new LED allowed the same Lumens with longer run times because its more efficient, well thats interesting if its substantial enough. I dont use high mode often or for long periods thus i dont anticipate frequent battery changes


----------



## neutralwhite

i have sent both my tailcaps back to elzetta to look over as with the alpha hight low, its does not change from high to low, or does not turn on if in low.
also the bravo when just dropped onto normal wooden flooring ground, just switches off when lands on the head or side.

i did clean them but same kinda issues.
thanks,


??,


----------



## mckeand13

My memory isn't very good, but I am sure I saw a video (youtube?) quite some time ago with Dave from Elzetta holding, and briefly describing, an 18650 body that they were working on.

Is my mind playing tricks on me or does anyone else remember that?

Yes, I know, Elzetta generally dislikes rechargeables, but I swear I saw it!


----------



## RI Chevy

Scott007 said:


> I am very impressed with the Elzetta Bravo 650 Lumen 95% run time regulation. I want to purchase this light but I have two concerns:
> 1) Is there enough throw to reach 200 feet? Or is this light mainly for closer use. If I'm looking for my car, I want to be able to light it up well enough to make sure it's mine.
> 
> 2) The AVS 650 lm/900 lm came out over two years ago. Is it now considered old and getting a replacement soon?


The Bravo with the AVS head should fit your need more than adequately. If you think you need more, then get the Charlie body and screw on the AVS head. You'll up the voltage input from 6v to 9v. Either one should suit you just fine! 
The AVS head uses a TIR optic lens and produces excellent throw.
The AVS head is still fine. Not ready for replacement or upgrading any time soon as far as I know. I own all 3 Elzettas as well as the older head with an M60 dropin.


----------



## Scott007

I went to place my order but my coupon code didn't work (FALLBACK). Must have expired. If you have a coupon code that will work I would appreciate it!


----------



## bykfixer

Lumencrazy said:


> That is a different plant. It will be the largest factory in the world producing Panasonic’s NCR 18650B Lithium-ion battery for automotive and energy storage uses. http://electrek.co/2015/05/18/new-drone-footage-from-teslas-gigafactory/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuDfFmUcJso



You're right.

I went looking for what I had read before, but saw that stuff after just skimming over the Panasonic/Tesla article. Should have waited until researching further to post a reply.

But somewhere along the way I read that the entire lineup of American made 123 batteries are made in a Panasonic factory.


----------



## elzetta56

mckeand13 said:


> My memory isn't very good, but I am sure I saw a video (youtube?) quite some time ago with Dave from Elzetta holding, and briefly describing, an 18650 body that they were working on.
> 
> Is my mind playing tricks on me or does anyone else remember that?
> 
> Yes, I know, Elzetta generally dislikes rechargeables, but I swear I saw it!



I spoke to Dave on the phone last week and asked some questions, one about rechargeable batteries...didnt leave me with the impression that they are working on it! 123 have some advantages that i think Elzetta places a higher value on


----------



## les_garten

elzetta56 said:


> I spoke to Dave on the phone last week and asked some questions, one about rechargeable batteries...didnt leave me with the impression that they are working on it! 123 have some advantages that i think Elzetta places a higher value on



I can see how they may want to avoid something that may burn your house down...


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

les_garten said:


> I can see how they may want to avoid something that may burn your house down...



Ughh, well then don't bring your laptop or mobile phone into the house and make sure all your electrical wires in your house a checked/replaced on a very regular basis. 
Seriously, even if your 18650 explodes in your flashlight while you are at sleep it won't set the light or your house on fire.


----------



## les_garten

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> Ughh, well then don't bring your laptop or mobile phone into the house and make sure all your electrical wires in your house a checked/replaced on a very regular basis.
> Seriously, even if your 18650 explodes in your flashlight while you are at sleep it won't set the light or your house on fire.



That's not true and you know it's not true. Compaq laptop batteries were responsible for a number of fires. Have they(LiION) gotten lots better? Yes. But Elzetta cannot control what batteries someone puts in their Flashlight, Compaq and Sony can, that's a huge difference in safety factor. Laptops can control the protection and charging algorithm as well. Numerous Lithium Ion fires in airplane holds. I'm not sure what my house wires have to do with Lithium batteries being dangerous.

I use a lot of Lithiums. I try to only buy good quality, but I am very leery of them and hopefully they don't burn my house down. I can understand a company wanting to stay away from rechargeables if they had the option.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

les_garten said:


> That's not true and you know it's not true. Compaq laptop batteries were responsible for a number of fires. Have they(LiION) gotten lots better? Yes. But Elzetta cannot control what batteries someone puts in their Flashlight, Compaq and Sony can, that's a huge difference in safety factor. Laptops can control the protection and charging algorithm as well. Numerous Lithium Ion fires in airplane holds. I'm not sure what my house wires have to do with Lithium batteries being dangerous.
> 
> I use a lot of Lithiums. I try to only buy good quality, but I am very leery of them and hopefully they don't burn my house down. I can understand a company wanting to stay away from rechargeables if they had the option.



What's not true? I'm sure laptop batteries have caused fires before, laptop batteries are what, 4 or 6 18650's stuck together? Your house wires can also start fires if they are in bad condition, but I bet very few people get that checked out very often. 
My point is that with the sheer volume of batteries used worldwide it's bound to go wrong every now and then. Laptops control charging and protection? Yeah, that is exactly what chargers do aswell. Elzetta can't control what batteries someone puts in their lights? Nope, but that's not their responsibilty. It's not a car manufacturers responsibility that you put the right fuel in your car. Numerous (most of them) flashlight manufacturers have been bringing out lights that can use rechargable batteries and somehow it seems to be going fine... 

If you believe they are so dangerous don't you think it's kind of dumb to still take the risk of using them. You *hope* they don't burn your house down (potentially killing you and your family) but yet, you still use them. Why not buy primaries? Only costs more money but atleast you will be safe.

Just like alot of products you need to know how to handle them and the do's and don'ts and then you will be fine.


----------



## bykfixer

Has anybody asked Elezetta to explain why they make their lights to use primaries?

Something tells me they know a thing or three about batteries.

The way I see it, if I don't have about $20 for 10 batteries I ought not be buying a $150+ flashlight. 
Nope, instead I shoulda bought a cheap chinese light.


----------



## peter yetman

I think they explain it on their site. It's a life or death one I think.
Here's what they say, sorry it's so long, but I does answer all the questions as far as Elzetta are concerned. P

Many of the consumer inquiries we receive revolve around the batteries used to power an Elzetta Modular Flashlight; Can it use the same batteries as my TV remote? Will it run on rechargeable batteries? Why does Elzetta insist on USA-Made batteries? What brand is the best? 
Many people, unfamiliar with newer battery chemistries or the differences between battery types, desire to use common department-store alkaline batteries. However, the advantages of CR123A batteries (also available in department-stores) over alkaline cells are numerous and significant;


Higher Voltage
Greater Energy Density
Lower Mass Density (Lighter Weight)
Operate at Both Higher & Lower Temperature Extremes
Longer Shelf Life
Less Prone to Leakage/Corrosion
 While these benefits may not be necessary for the batteries in a remote control sitting on an armchair, they are essential in a tactical flashlight used for life-and-death situations. Tactical flashlights, especially those mounted to weapons, demand the best battery technology available and the ability to perform at peak capacity in the harshest of conditions. Greater performance, durability, and reliability come with the use of CR123A batteries.
The use of rechargeable batteries is the other frequent question we receive. While the reusable nature of such cells is attractive economically, such batteries are better suited for consumer electronics and gadgets rather than mission-critical gear such as a tactical flashlight. The quality of rechargeable dry-cell batteries (all of which are made overseas) is dubious and highly variable. As a result, the advantages listed above are amplified even more when CR123A batteries are compared to the various rechargeable technologies currently available. While rechargeable versions of CR123A batteries, known as RCR123 cells, may be used in Elzetta Alpha and Bravo Models for non-critical applications (i.e. dog-walking, maintenance chores, etc.) they should never be used when one’s life or safety is one the line. 
Given the tremendous benefits of CR123A batteries, they are the only batteries recommended for use with Elzetta Modular Flashlights. It must be noted that only USA-Made CR123A cells should be used (varieties manufactured in China have been known to explode violently and should not be used in any circumstances). As for the various brands of USA-Made CR123A cells, they are all identical except for the wrapper (Panasonic is the only manufacturer of CR123A batteries in the USA and they are all made in the same factory to the same specifications in Columbus, Georgia). Believing one’s favorite brand of battery is better than others is like painting a car red thinking it will make it faster. And just as one would not buy a Lamborghini and then try to save a few pennies per gallon by using low-grade gasoline, grumbling that CR123A batteries are not as cheap as some other batteries is inconsistent with the demand for the best performance from one’s equipment. When value, rather than mere price, is considered, CR123A batteries are the best choice. Elzetta Modular Flashlights are designed and manufactured without compromise. Accordingly, no compromise should be made on the batteries that feed them.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

bykfixer said:


> Has anybody asked Elezetta to explain why they make their lights to use primaries?
> 
> Something tells me they know a thing or three about batteries.
> 
> The way I see it, if I don't have about $20 for 10 batteries I ought not be buying a $150+ flashlight.
> Nope, instead I shoulda bought a cheap chinese light.



I'm sure their answer would be in the region of, it's more reliable as they last longer unused, can take shocks better (for mounting to a gun), react better to extreme temperatures and taper output instead of shutting off. But apparently they don't trust their costumers to be responsible for what batteries they use under what circumstances. 
I'm sure they know a thing or three about batteries, but so do Fenix, Nitecore etc. and... Surefire, the company that always used primaries but now also makes lights that use rechargeable batteries. I don't think they suddenly forgot all their battery knowledge.


----------



## bykfixer

Elzetta may eventually design some lights to use rechargeables...

But for now they don't. 
Yet they sell a bunch of flashlights every year. 

And if some flash light enthusiasts happen to like 'em then so be it. But if all of a sudden a bunch of flashlight fans quit buying them because they don't bore them for larger girth rechargeables, it's doubtful they'd suddenly go out of business.

To me part of the charm of the Elzetta is the rigid,
no compromise policies. They don't let a few voices change their way of doing business. They think they've got a good product and the 'if you don't like it don't buy it' attitude is why I bought one. They stand up for what they believe in. The free sticker didn't hurt neither. 

For a self defense item there can be no compromising. So for this guy I'm able to confidently carry my Alpha as an always 100% backup. If it takes using a primary to keep my wife from having to pay for my funeral? I'm cool wit dat.

Same goes for my Malkoffs and Streamlights...
I had a Sure Fire product arrive DOA. I fixed it easily. 
But Sure Fire products are in my toy collection ever since. 
I just relegated a Klarus to a shelf queen because it failed to light first click for a second time. In my mind it aint even reliable as a toy.

I have a vast selection of lights. But only depend on a few. And they have primaries in them.


----------



## peter yetman

I'm with you. If it doesn't light first time, every time - it's pointless.
P


----------



## bykfixer

Can Nite Core honestly make this claim?


----------



## elzetta56

temperature sensitivity and gradual light output reduction are big for me

I dont want a battery to all of a sudden quit working completely (as Recharges sometimes do when theyre dead, theyre dead) nor do I want one left in a 10 degree car or 120 degree car rapidly lose charge, explode, whatever


----------



## elzetta56

ELZETTA ....MADE in USA
that works for me
ez to call and talk to, email, etc always respond and in english


----------



## mckeand13

Does anyone know what optic (brand/model) Elzetta is using in the Alpha?


----------



## elzetta56

12 years and still good
http://flashlightguide.com/2015/05/surefire-123a-battery-long-term-test/


----------



## les_garten

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> What's not true? I'm sure laptop batteries have caused fires before, laptop batteries are what, 4 or 6 18650's stuck together? Your house wires can also start fires if they are in bad condition, but I bet very few people get that checked out very often.



You're missing the point.

The original question was why wouldn't Elzetta do rechargeable. It ain't about me or my house wires, get it?

1) Rechargables are not as safe or as reliable as primaries, there are numerous ramifications to this, one is liability, the other is will the light make light when I NEED IT TO.
2) Primaries taper off smoothly in output. Thus there is warning about the battery being consumed, so that you can replace it before it is consumed. Not so Rechargeables.

These are inline with Elzettas hard use and reliable as a Hammer philosophy.

I'm not tryin' to freakin' fight with you over something that is as plain as day and basically fact.

I think ALL Li technologies are more dangerous than Lead, Nickel, Cd, Mn etc. Rechargeables much more so than primaries.

There are things you can do to mitigate some of these dangers, but it is there none the less.

I have 3 Elzettas, they are all getting bored in Bore Batch P with Oveready as we speak. That should tell you how I feel about the whole thing.

Now if you don't mind I'm off to look over my house wires...


----------



## scout24

C'mon, folks. The RCR battery issue has been beaten to death... As have Elzetta's policies.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> I'm sure their answer would be in the region of, it's more reliable as they last longer unused, can take shocks better (for mounting to a gun), react better to extreme temperatures and taper output instead of shutting off. *But apparently they don't trust their costumers to be responsible for what batteries they use under what circumstances.*
> I'm sure they know a thing or three about batteries, but so do Fenix, Nitecore etc. and... Surefire, the company that always used primaries but now also makes lights that use rechargeable batteries. I don't think they suddenly forgot all their battery knowledge.



You guys don't have to repeat reasons why they use primaries, I know why they do and I don't question that. What I think is a bit odd is what I highlighted in my previous comment. All these other manufacturers that you can use rechargeables in have one thing in common... you can ALSO use primaries in them. 
If you store the light in your car, use it as a must go on 100% of the time type of light or whatever reason you have to run primaries then you can! But why not give the option to use rechargeables for those who want that option? 
By the way I have a bored AVS Charlie and stock Bravo and love the brand, I just don't get why some brands hang on to old philosophies for dear life.


----------



## bykfixer

Because...it's their company.


----------



## Grizzman

My unbored ZFL-M60 ran well with an M60 or M61 fed by a protected 16650 or 17670, before I had it bored. As battery voltage decreased below 3.4 volts, so did output, so there was no surprise darkness.

If an IMR 16650 existed, I would feel comfortable using it under critical conditions.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

bykfixer said:


> Because...it's their company.



Doesn't make them immune to other opinions and questions about their products.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Grizzman said:


> My unbored ZFL-M60 ran well with an M60 or M61 fed by a protected 16650 or 17670, before I had it bored. As battery voltage decreased below 3.4 volts, so did output, so there was no surprise darkness.
> 
> If an IMR 16650 existed, I would feel comfortable using it under critical conditions.



Yup, I got a 17670 in my unbored ZFL-M60


----------



## scs

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> Doesn't make them immune to other opinions and questions about their products.



If instances of failure at critical moments occur, as a result of rechargeables, there is the risk that people would just attribute the failure to the light itself, and not rightly to the power source. Perhaps that's why Elzetta has not changed, for the sake of their reputation.


----------



## scout24

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> You guys don't have to repeat reasons why they use primaries, I know why they do and I don't question that. What I think is a bit odd is what I highlighted in my previous comment. All these other manufacturers that you can use rechargeables in have one thing in common... you can ALSO use primaries in them.
> If you store the light in your car, use it as a must go on 100% of the time type of light or whatever reason you have to run primaries then you can! But why not give the option to use rechargeables for those who want that option?
> By the way I have a bored AVS Charlie and stock Bravo and love the brand, I just don't get why some brands hang on to old philosophies for dear life.



They hang on to what their design philosophies are because that's how they want to run their business. They have a section on their website with a telephone number and an email address for getting ahold of them if you'd like to share your opinion. It's been stated here repeatedly that this is a dead horse. And, I suggested nicely a few posts up that it may be time to move to another topic. You start your post saying the reasons for primaries don't need to be repeated, and close with not getting why some brands hang on to old philosophies. Maybe they can help... 

EDIT-I use a 16650 and M61N in my Bravo, by the way. For anything other than non mission critical dog walking, primaries come along for the ride. Best of both worlds. :thumbsup:


----------



## bykfixer

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> Doesn't make them immune to other opinions and questions about their products.


Really?



M61N. Santa is bringing me one of those.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Let's be nice guys. Attack the post, not the poster. Don't get personal.

Bill


----------



## Scott007

I looked all around on the site for an Elzetta discount code. I found nothing. Did I miss something?


----------



## kj2

Scott007 said:


> I looked all around on the site for an Elzetta discount code. I found nothing. Did I miss something?



They'd a discount. But that ended like a week back.


----------



## Grizzman

There's another discount opportunity tomorrow, according to my e-mail...20% off flashlights.


----------



## vudoo

I just received my bored Bravo Elzetta today with the HO AVS head. First impressions is that it is a lot smaller than I thought. Feels great in the hand and of a very high quality.


It currently runs on two AW 18350 IMR’s. With the smooth reflector it is very bright and throws a decent beam. Due to the reflector design the hotspot has very noticeable rings. Not a deal breaker but very noticeable. With the diffused reflector, the beam is nice and smooth but to my surprise output appears to be reduced by about 30%.


I don’t think that I will be keeping the diffused lens due to the reduced output but overall I really like this light.


----------



## Grizzman

Elzettas are definitely smaller than some of their competitors.

FYI, the AVS head doesn't have a reflector. It uses a solid Acrylic optic. Lights using single optics, Surefire, Malkoff, etc typically have the same beam pattern of innermost bright spot surrounded by bands of diminishing output. I think the AVS' beam pattern is outstanding, especially when used at a distance.

The light's output with the flood optic is the same as it is with the spot optic. The photons are simply spread out evenly, so it doesn't appear as bright.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ That's what I like about the Alpha.

I read at flashlight reviews about the style of beam it puts out and was sold.


----------



## Scott007

The best kept secret. I only wish I knew about Elzetta sooner. Have you ever felt really stupid because you thought you knew more than you really did? Turns out I was pretty uneducated Everything about flashlights you were afraid to ask but wanted to know is answered on the Elzetta website. Elzetta educates you because they really want you to know better. Now I am truly an educated consumer. 

I used to be a Surefire fanboy. I used to think they were the best because of the high esteem people on this site placed on them. It is cult-like. Now that I know better, I do not understand why. Let me explain. I am going to base everything I have to say on fact not emotion. 

Surefire lights are not potted. Elzetta lights are fully potted. Surefire uses old LED technology. Elzetta uses new more efficient LEDs. What kind of aluminum does Surefire use? I was told Surefire uses anodized Aerospace and airplane grade aluminum. That sounds really impressive doesn't it? In reality it does not mean jack squat. Let me explain, Elzetta uses 6061-T6 aluminum. 28% greater heat and electrical conductivity and 20% greater heat capacity than 7075 – T6 aluminum with a tensile strength 28% greater than 6063–T6. The T6 portion of the material grade refers to the heat treatment and is a critical specification. Surefire does not tell you the grade of aluminum they use because there is nothing special about it. Other than military grade anodizing I am willing to bet it is just a simple cheap grade of aluminum. Surefire wants to keep you in the dark about this. All metals have different grades, you should know what you're buying.

I was going to buy a Surefire EB2 500 lumen light. That is until I found out it really is not a 500 lm light It really is only 350 lm for most of its runtime. (footnote flashlight.com) The Elzetta Bravo 650 lm AVS head runs at a very flat 95% of it's rated output or 617.5 lumens for most of its runtime. ( footnote flashlight.com). 350 lm is a lot less than 500. This is a good case of buyer beware. Both of these lights do use a TIR optic so this is a good comparison.

Elzetta flashlights are all modular. Every piece of the flashlight is field replaceable. Surefire is not. Let's say LED technology improves. Time to purchase a new flashlight for more lumens and better run time. With Surefire you have to buy a whole new flashlight. Elzetta just buy the new LED head. That is a lot less money to upgrade. 

The warranty for both these companies is excellent. Each one of these companies will bend over backwards to serve you should you have problems. The durability of Elzetta surpasses Surefire because of superior aluminum, fully potted electronics, and no glass to break in the TIR optic. The tail cap switches in each are excellent quality. I truly don't know which one is better. Being a well educated consumer, is being a smart consumer. I no longer follow cult-like blindness. I buy my flashlights based on education and facts.


----------



## mckeand13

Scott007 said:


> The best kept secret. I only wish I knew about Elzetta sooner. Have you ever felt really stupid because you thought you knew more than you really did? Turns out I was pretty uneducated Everything about flashlights you were afraid to ask but wanted to know is answered on the Elzetta website. Elzetta educates you because they really want you to know better. Now I am truly an educated consumer.
> 
> I used to be a Surefire fanboy. I used to think they were the best because of the high esteem people on this site placed on them. It is cult-like. Now that I know better, I do not understand why. Let me explain. I am going to base everything I have to say on fact not emotion.
> 
> Surefire lights are not potted. Elzetta lights are fully potted. Surefire uses old LED technology. Elzetta uses new more efficient LEDs. What kind of aluminum does Surefire use? I was told Surefire uses anodized Aerospace and airplane grade aluminum. That sounds really impressive doesn't it? In reality it does not mean jack squat. Let me explain, Elzetta uses 6061-T6 aluminum. 28% greater heat and electrical conductivity and 20% greater heat capacity than 7075 – T6 aluminum with a tensile strength 28% greater than 6063–T6. The T6 portion of the material grade refers to the heat treatment and is a critical specification. Surefire does not tell you the grade of aluminum they use because there is nothing special about it. Other than military grade anodizing I am willing to bet it is just a simple cheap grade of aluminum. Surefire wants to keep you in the dark about this. All metals have different grades, you should know what you're buying.
> 
> I was going to buy a Surefire EB2 500 lumen light. That is until I found out it really is not a 500 lm light It really is only 350 lm for most of its runtime. (footnote flashlight.com) The Elzetta Bravo 650 lm AVS head runs at a very flat 95% of it's rated output or 617.5 lumens for most of its runtime. ( footnote flashlight.com). 350 lm is a lot less than 500. This is a good case of buyer beware. Both of these lights do use a TIR optic so this is a good comparison.
> 
> Elzetta flashlights are all modular. Every piece of the flashlight is field replaceable. Surefire is not. Let's say LED technology improves. Time to purchase a new flashlight for more lumens and better run time. With Surefire you have to buy a whole new flashlight. Elzetta just buy the new LED head. That is a lot less money to upgrade.
> 
> The warranty for both these companies is excellent. Each one of these companies will bend over backwards to serve you should you have problems. The durability of Elzetta surpasses Surefire because of superior aluminum, fully potted electronics, and no glass to break in the TIR optic. The tail cap switches in each are excellent quality. I truly don't know which one is better. Being a well educated consumer, is being a smart consumer. I no longer follow cult-like blindness. I buy my flashlights based on education and facts.



Without knowing exactly what series aluminum Surefire is using, you make a blanket statement that “Elzetta uses a superior aluminum”. What did you base that on?

Elzetta goes into great detail on the series of aluminum they use and compares it to others, labeling it best for their application. They make it sound like they are using this special aluminum for very specific reasons. Guess what, 6061-T6 is the cheapest, most commonly available, and most widely used aluminum in the world. There’s nothing special about it, but yet Elzetta is tooting their own horn trying to get people to buy into the magic just as you have done. When it comes down to it, who cares what series of aluminum either maker is using. Have you had a Surefire break in half due to their "less superior" aluminum?

Surefire is using “outdated LED technology”? Last time I checked, my Fury had an XM-L2 in it. Funny, the Elzetta AVS heads have an XM-L2. What makes the Elzetta emitter a better one in your mind? Maybe they cut a deal with Cree to get the “better” ones.

Your comments are just plain ignorant. You obviously care more about paper specifications than you do real world performance. Instead of regurgitating a bunch of info right off the Elzetta website your time might be better spent using your lights.


----------



## scout24

And you just started a thread with the exact same post as yours above... This 1800+ post thread touting the greatness that is Elzetta has been here for a while now...


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

mckeand13 said:


> Without knowing exactly what series aluminum Surefire is using, you make a blanket statement that “Elzetta uses a superior aluminum”. What did you base that on?
> 
> Elzetta goes into great detail on the series of aluminum they use and compares it to others, labeling it best for their application. They make it sound like they are using this special aluminum for very specific reasons. Guess what, 6061-T6 is the cheapest, most commonly available, and most widely used aluminum in the world. There’s nothing special about it, but yet Elzetta is tooting their own horn trying to get people to buy into the magic just as you have done. When it comes down to it, who cares what series of aluminum either maker is using. Have you had a Surefire break in half due to their "less superior" aluminum?
> 
> Surefire is using “outdated LED technology”? Last time I checked, my Fury had an XM-L2 in it. Funny, the Elzetta AVS heads have an XM-L2. What makes the Elzetta emitter a better one in your mind? Maybe they cut a deal with Cree to get the “better” ones.
> 
> Your comments are just plain ignorant. You obviously care more about paper specifications than you do real world performance. Instead of regurgitating a bunch of info right off the Elzetta website your time might be better spent using your lights.



I posted in his other "Elzetta is better than Surefire" thread that the type of aluminum used on a light has never been an issue for me. I never even thought about it. 

Although now that I think about it, it does matter if it is pink aluminum. I love pink MD2s quite a bit.


----------



## dc38

Also...elzettas use malkoffs, which are actually the tooting points of the lights.


----------



## Scott007

scout24 said:


> And you just started a thread with the exact same post as yours above... This 1800+ post thread touting the greatness that is Elzetta has been here for a while now...


 I sort of got confused when I posted this I wasn't sure where it went. Can you delete this one please. I meant for it to end up in the Led forum not the Elzetta thread


----------



## etc

while elzetta shares surefire quality, they also share surefire prices. I looked at their web site, sticker shock.


----------



## elzetta56

Elzetta uses a TIR acrylic lens not a reflector...if the fury does now use an xm-l2 that news as flashlightguide said it was the xm-l in their charlie vs fury head to head test

Elzetta does not use malkoff for their avs head as far as i know


The fury pulls over double the recommended amps at 4+ amps and also doenst maintain 1000 lumens very long


----------



## elzetta56

http://www.elzetta.com/blog/batterydraw/
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles...-magazine.html

http://www.elzetta.com/blog/lumenwars/


----------



## RI Chevy

I like my Elzetta lights. With that said, there is nothing wrong with the basic 6P, 9P hosts. The heads/bezels and tailcaps are very modular, and most all of the standard P60 platform was built around these hosts. Nothing wrong with the aluminum used in Surefire 6P or 9P hosts. 
I run Malkoff drop ins in all my Surefire hosts.


----------



## kj2

Prometheus clip in the mail today. Sure looks good, and retention feels alright.
Does move when I have my Alpha on Low. And the clip does leave a mark on the light, when it moves.


----------



## Grizzman

A slightly thicker o-ring should reduce the movement. You can also slightly bend the clip to increase pressure against the head. This should increase retention and might decrease rotation. 

Is it a tool, or jewelry?


----------



## etc

what module do they use to generate the 900 lumens? Does it drop off after a few minutes? 

Not a Malkoff module for sure, I would think. Beamshots? Runtime? 

Sell it to me.


----------



## Grizzman

I'd presume it's an Elzetta module, but I wouldn't exactly call it a module. The head uses an XM-L2 emitter.

Flashlightguide.com, hosted by our very own 880arm, has beamshots, photos, runtime graphs (with primaries), etc.


----------



## etc

elzetta56 said:


> temperature sensitivity and gradual light output reduction are big for me
> 
> I dont want a battery to all of a sudden quit working completely (as Recharges sometimes do when theyre dead, theyre dead) nor do I want one left in a 10 degree car or 120 degree car rapidly lose charge, explode, whatever



That is a problem with all lites where you run protected 18650s, especially two of them. the protection circuit kicks in and poof, you are suddenly in total darkness.

now picture yourself in a cave or some other situation where reloads may not be accessible.


----------



## kj2

Grizzman said:


> Is it a tool, or jewelry?


Both


----------



## mckeand13

I'd be willing to bet Malkoff had a role in the design of the Elzetta Alpha/AVS head. Look down the tube, that spring and potting material look very familiar. 

Maybe Malkoff builds them for Elzetta?


----------



## elzetta56

Maybe they do...two great AMERICAN companies working together to make great products. 
I would like to own a Malkoff and might buy a drop-in for my 6p. The Hound Dog and its various options intrigues me...Problem is I spent all my money for now on the Charlie


----------



## elzetta56

etc said:


> That is a problem with all lites where you run protected 18650s, especially two of them. the protection circuit kicks in and poof, you are suddenly in total darkness.
> 
> now picture yourself in a cave or some other situation where reloads may not be accessible.


 THis is one reason why I personally never want to have to remember what batteries are in my light or when they were recharged last...


----------



## scout24

Elzetta56- The Hound Dog is an awesome light. I own a Hound Dog 18650 (Neutral), and Gene's dropins are legendary. There is rumor of a Black Friday sale...


----------



## elzetta56

hmmmmm Im looking at his for the 6P I have
http://www.malkoffdevices.com/products/m361n-lmh-neutral-low-med-high-to-fit-surefire


----------



## bykfixer

15% Black Friday discount is a go.


----------



## elzetta56

thanks


----------



## bykfixer

FYI: I posted pic with code after the above post. 



56 if you like rapid fire mode selection the N version will not disappoint. But be warned...it's fast!

His regular beam is awesome. No doubt. But that N is just the right amount of warmth without appearing warm


----------



## elzetta56

im intrigued by low, medium, high

I like the idea of a 75-125 lumen light for walking around outside at night

my G2X is 15 lumen so its ok but not much range, the Charlie is 30 lumens and its better than the SF G2X and it works well but with LED efficiency I could get hours of runtime on medium at the lumens above and bright enough but not overly for walking around outside...


----------



## elzetta56

THis graph seems a little off, is it correct...?
Does the Charlie really stay ABOVE 900 lumens for that long before dropping? (BTW compared to the P3X Fury I believe)


----------



## peter yetman

From FlashlightGuide.com....

_In the 3-cell Charlie configuration, the high output head remained in regulation for 55 minutes, maintaining at least 86% of its initial output. Over the next 15 minutes output declined to approximately the same output level as the 2-cell configuration before the light dropped completely out of regulation. This was followed by a long taper in output as the batteries were depleted. In this one test, the High Output head fell a few minutes short of its rated runtime of 105 minutes._

P


----------



## Bullzeyebill

bykfixer said:


> Hope this doesn't violate policy.



Probably not a policy issue, but is pretty blatant, and done in an Elzetta thread. I think a discrete notice of that sale would be better in the Malkoff forum. Please remove it. Thanks,

Bill


----------



## bykfixer

The post is now edited.

Screen shot removed.


----------



## djdawg

Great thread .........couldnt read it all but , ............I just bought a elzetta bravo and didnt like the beam shadows or shadows in the outer edges of the beam .......
Do they all do this ? Mine is not a flood lense ............I dont know alot about lights , but more of my lights dont have shadows.
I hope someone here helps me please.


----------



## monanza

Probably your bezel, get the smooth bezel to fix that if you are using the AVS.


----------



## djdawg

My order says ..............Bravo 2 cell body
Malkoff M-60 standard 8 degree lens 235 lumens
Bezel Head - Standard (smooth profile minimizes snagging with flutes that prevent rolling on flat level
I like the reading I do that say there bullit proof and from what Ive read here , no one has complained about the shadows in the beam .........most if not all my other lights dont do this , none of my Sure Fire lights do , Fenix etc.
Thank you for responding ........... dj


----------



## Grizzman

Can you provide a more detailed explanation of these "shadows"? Are you referring to the beams circular rings?


----------



## djdawg

Yes the circular rings ...........Iam compareing to my HDS mostly and the O,light s1 baton ..........
After the hotspot there is a clear difference in tint as where the HDS is not


----------



## djdawg

Iam thinking on trying the 3 cell light with 950 lumen and maybe flood lens , I appreciate anyone input and thoughts on this ...............maybe Iam too picky ......lol


----------



## Grizzman

That makes more sense. The rings are a byproduct of the optic used in the Elzetta's LED assembly. Surefire lights with TIR optics also exhibit rings. I Googled the S1, and it seems to also use an optic. The rumor is that Mr. Malkoff created the reflector based M61 due to the complaints he received from users regarding the rings in the beam. The HDS uses a reflector, which is why its beam looks the way it does.

If you don't like the rings enough to find a solution, buy a Malkoff M61 drop-in in the tint and output of your choosing. It will have a beam profile very similar to the HDS.

The AVS also uses an optic, and had distinct rings of differing brightness within the beam. I personally consider the AVS beam to be very nice. The flood lens does completely eliminate the rings, and also most of the head's ability to be used at distance. It's great to light up a living room or small front yard, but not so great at most other tasks.

If you're using it to shine on walls in your living room, then go outside and use it for real. It's a hard use, tactical tool.


----------



## djdawg

Where the HDS is a gradual change in tint , the elzetta is definitely different shades , is this normal for this light .......?
Is the 950 lumen elzetta better at this ?


----------



## djdawg

Grizzman said:


> That makes more sense. The rings are a byproduct of the optic used in the Elzetta's LED assembly. Surefire lights with TIR optics also exhibit rings. I Googled the S1, and it seems to also use an optic. The rumor is that Mr. Malkoff created the reflector based M61 due to the complaints he received from users regarding the rings in the beam. The HDS uses a reflector, which is why its beam looks the way it does.
> 
> If you don't like the rings enough to find a solution, buy a Malkoff M61 drop-in in the tint and output of your choosing. It will have a beam profile very similar to the HDS.
> 
> The AVS also uses an optic, and had distinct rings of differing brightness within the beam. I personally consider the AVS beam to be very nice.
> 
> If you're using it to shine on walls in your living room, then go outside and use it for real. It's a hard use, tactical tool.


THANKS ...........will elzettas 950 lumen lights be the same ?? the AVS ??
Do you have there flood lense ??


----------



## Grizzman

I added info to my previous post. Ya, I've got both flood and spot in M60 and AVS.


----------



## djdawg

Again thanks ..........I think I,ll give the flood lense a try and the 950 LM
I dont think the quality of the lights is poor at all.


----------



## djdawg

Does anyone know the run time of the AVS 900Lm ? 3 batt


----------



## Grizzman

CPF member 880arm did a thorough review of the AVS Charlie on his flashlightguide.com website, complete with outdoor beamshots and runtime graphs. It looks quite a bit like the graph in post 1897 above.


----------



## djdawg

Thanks , I,ll check it out now


----------



## djdawg

Well thank you again ............looks like Iam gonna be gettin a couple more ElZettas ...............LOL


----------



## RI Chevy

The AVS head will give you a much warmer tinted light output than the M60. Just be prepared.


----------



## elzetta56

I have the AVS CHarlie (3 batt)...it doesnt show rings of light the further out you like especially on high power...on low power up close you notice them... if you want of "cone of light" with a sharp edge, you wont get that with AVS


----------



## etc

Grizzman said:


> CPF member 880arm did a thorough review of the AVS Charlie on his flashlightguide.com website, complete with outdoor beamshots and runtime graphs. It looks quite a bit like the graph in post 1897 above.



I found the link, but still not sure what module they are using to generate 900 lumens??? They are showing Malkoff M60F, this could not possibly be right? Or are just demoing how *any* Malkoff module can fit into it??


http://versionone.rcas.net/VersionOne/Default.aspx?menu=TaskBoardPage


----------



## RI Chevy

I am sure they will not give away their secrets. Bad for business. It is good though!


----------



## Grizzman

I'm not sure what "link" you found. Here is the review of the Bravo and Charlie with AVS heads. http://flashlightguide.com/2013/10/review-elzetta-high-output-flashlights/ 

The flashlightguide review states that the emitter is an XM-L2, and I agree. The AVS head doesn't use a Malkoff drop-in....M60 or otherwise. The module has a similar shape as the M60/M61, but since it interfaces with the Bravo, Charlie, and legacy ZFL-M60 bodies, this is to be expected. It uses what appears to be the same potting material and spring as the M60. It would make complete sense for both the M60 and AVS modules to use the same components. The LED assembly is secured in the head via a snap ring located behind the optic holder.


----------



## djdawg

I love reading this stuff ...............I just want a good dependable light.


----------



## etc

Grizzman said:


> I'm not sure what "link" you found. Here is the review of the Bravo and Charlie with AVS heads. http://flashlightguide.com/2013/10/review-elzetta-high-output-flashlights/
> 
> The flashlightguide review states that the emitter is an XM-L2, and I agree. The AVS head doesn't use a Malkoff drop-in....M60 or otherwise. The module has a similar shape as the M60/M61, but since it interfaces with the Bravo, Charlie, and legacy ZFL-M60 bodies, this is to be expected. It uses what appears to be the same potting material and spring as the M60. It would make complete sense for both the M60 and AVS modules to use the same components. The LED assembly is secured in the head via a snap ring located behind the optic holder.



Interesting. Looks comparable to Fury P3x but with slightly higher output for a shorter term. makes sense.

Any more about the module itself? what voltage does it accept? Tints? Anything.


----------



## Grizzman

The only people that seem to know jack about the AVS head's LED module seem to work for Elzetta. Elzetta expects their lights to be run with primary CR123s, and therefore doesn't specify a maximum allowed voltage on their website. The use of two Li-Ions and resulting 8+ volts is sufficient to result in the full 900 lumen output. I personally see no reason to run three RCR123s or IMR 16340s, when two 17500s work well. If a particular body/head/tailcap won't accept the length of two protected 17500s, then three IMR 16340s may fit. Will the head tolerate 12 volts? Maybe. I'm not about to try it. If you really want to know, then an phone call to Elzetta may be the best route, but they'd likely just ask why you aren't using primaries or dual Li-Ions.

On the opposite side of the coin, they work great from a single Li-Ion, delivering approximately 500 lumens. I don't recall seeing any detailed graphs showing how long the output is regulated before it changes to direct drive and begins the slow decline.

To my eyes, the tint with the spot optic is very good. The central spot is a slightly rosy 5000-5500K and the spill is a yellowish approximately 4000K. Mixing the two together with the flood optic creates an outstanding 4500K Nichia 219-like beam.


----------



## bykfixer

That moment when you're 2/3 into a 60 mile commute to work and realize you forgot your Elzetta.

Turn around? 
Pffft.... 
Is a bull frog water proof?


----------



## RI Chevy

Just buy another one to keep in the car as a spare. Lol


----------



## elzetta56

elzetta...never leave home without it.:twothumbs

the more I use the Elzetta...the more I really like the beam, even on low I can see well into the field next to my house, I would say 40-50 yards yet its not a single centralized hotspot, more of a eroding path of light as you go laterally from the center...the temperature is pretty perfect

High easily would identify someone well out to 100+ yards, and again its like a fountain of light instead of a small central hotspot...thats why the Fury (it has a much hotter central beam) can see farther out but the AVS doesnt have the glare the FUry has... plus it runs within 85% of its top end for almost an hour continuously....

I must admit for indoors, my old executive elite E2e has a warm, floody beam with a tiny hotspot that would be the widest beam and my preference fopr inside. the G2x pro and 6p do not match it either....it would be my preference indoor only light


----------



## scout24

RI Chevy said:


> Just buy another one to keep in the car as a spare. Lol



Department of Redundancy Department, scout24 speaking. How may I help you today???


----------



## RI Chevy

We're just trying to help. Lol


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

I always have a spare single CR123 in my car... generally I put a new battery in it and forget it is in there until I need it.


----------



## scout24

RI Chevy: I know! I was serious about my own quasi-ocd redundancy. I know I'm not the only one!


----------



## RI Chevy

We all have it! That's why we are on this site.


----------



## bykfixer

Well I had a slew of other lights within arms reach, including one in my left pocket. Just didn't ole faithful right pocket light....




^^ has anyboy seen the holograph image?

I don't own one (yet) so...


----------



## Grizzman

The logo is on the optic holder, and it's visible by looking through the optic. It's fairly easy to see.


----------



## elzetta56

yes I can see it in mine


----------



## Skaaphaas

bykfixer said:


> Well I had a slew of other lights within arms reach, including one in my left pocket. Just didn't ole faithful right pocket light....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ has anyboy seen the holograph image?
> 
> I don't own one (yet) so...


The Alpha also has it. It's close to the bezel, and you need to look at it from a sharp angle.


----------



## djdawg

I just bought me an Alpha to go with my Bravo ...........cant wait to see it.


----------



## etc

Grizzman said:


> The only people that seem to know jack about the AVS head's LED module seem to work for Elzetta. Elzetta expects their lights to be run with primary CR123s, and therefore doesn't specify a maximum allowed voltage on their website. The use of two Li-Ions and resulting 8+ volts is sufficient to result in the full 900 lumen output. I personally see no reason to run three RCR123s or IMR 16340s, when two 17500s work well. If a particular body/head/tailcap won't accept the length of two protected 17500s, then three IMR 16340s may fit. Will the head tolerate 12 volts? Maybe. I'm not about to try it. If you really want to know, then an phone call to Elzetta may be the best route, but they'd likely just ask why you aren't using primaries or dual Li-Ions.
> 
> On the opposite side of the coin, they work great from a single Li-Ion, delivering approximately 500 lumens. I don't recall seeing any detailed graphs showing how long the output is regulated before it changes to direct drive and begins the slow decline.
> 
> To my eyes, the tint with the spot optic is very good. The central spot is a slightly rosy 5000-5500K and the spill is a yellowish approximately 4000K. Mixing the two together with the flood optic creates an outstanding 4500K Nichia 219-like beam.



I would never try 3xLithion-Ion or 12v (4x123)... when 2x18650 is perfectly sufficient. 1x18650 is a great Edc package.


----------



## bykfixer

Skaaphaas said:


> The Alpha also has it. It's close to the bezel, and you need to look at it from a sharp angle.



Saw it in the Alpha.


----------



## RI Chevy

For those of you looking for alternatives for pocket clips for Elzetta lights, I just dug up a photo from a while ago. I think it may have been taken by Grizzman, but I am not sure. The Modolo pocket clip looks to be a little shorter in length, and may make a difference in carrying the light to be more utilitarian.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Was getting ready to pull the trigger on a 3 cell Charlie w/ AVS head. But I don' like primaries. Emailed them, and I was told not to run two 17500s even though the voltage would've been lower than 3 CR123s...


----------



## elzetta56

JohnnyBravo said:


> Was getting ready to pull the trigger on a 3 cell Charlie w/ AVS head. But I don' like primaries. Emailed them, and I was told not to run two 17500s even though the voltage would've been lower than 3 CR123s...


http://www.oveready.com/elzetta-flashlights/custom-elzetta-avs-charlie-2x18490-900l/prod_373.html


----------



## JohnnyBravo

elzetta56, thank you! Nice to know. I'm enlightened now ;-)


----------



## bykfixer

elzetta56 said:


> http://www.oveready.com/elzetta-flashlights/custom-elzetta-avs-charlie-2x18490-900l/prod_373.html


Look at 56 gettin' all into it!!!!

Good lookin' out.


----------



## scout24

My guess is a pair of 17500's won't support the amp draw on high, where 2x18490's, bore provided by Oveready at the link, will.


----------



## BugoutBoys

I've heard a lot of good about Elzetta. I need to get around to checking them out pretty soon!


----------



## BugoutBoys

I'll see if I can get to do some reviews on them after I finish up with Fenix and Nitecore.


----------



## djdawg

Iam thinkin about doing my own concrete test .........lol
I,d hate to break the light though


----------



## RI Chevy

These lights are already proven. What is it that your looking to discover?


----------



## djdawg

You cant always believe what you read .......... especially if it comes from the maker.
I just want to see it with my own eyes so to speak.
I,d be interested in other peoples test.


----------



## scout24

Precious few will voluntarily torture test lights they pay for themselves. I think most is proven over time, with the dings and dents and scratches that come with frequent use. That said, if you want to hammer on one you paid for, I'm sure we'll all watch!


----------



## RI Chevy

These lights have been battle tested by several members here, as well as countless others. I am with scout24 on this one. Knock yourself out. 
[emoji14]opcorn:


----------



## djdawg

Ive already started my test ..........Ive slammed my light against my mattress several times already and no malfunction .............
My next test will be the cotton ball test .........stay tuned for the results ..............LOL


----------



## Grizzman

Elzettas with standard heads, and therefore Malkoff drop-ins, have been fully proven.

If you'd like to beat on an AVS head, go for it.


----------



## djdawg

I dont have the AVS as of yet .......... who makes those ??


----------



## RI Chevy

Go to www.elzetta.com and search for AVS. 
Automatic Voltage Sensing


----------



## djdawg

I,ll just email elzetta .......cant find the info , just a list of products.


----------



## RI Chevy

http://www.elzetta.com/standard-flashlight-bezel-flood.html

You have some options, I just copied first one I saw.


----------



## bykfixer

djdawg said:


> Ive already started my test ..........Ive slammed my light against my mattress several times already and no malfunction .............
> My next test will be the cotton ball test .........stay tuned for the results ..............LOL



Why you so mean to your light?

My next torture test is to toss it against a tree in an underhand knife throwing motion until tail switch hits said tree at the right position to turn it on.

Poor tree. lol


----------



## tom-

overpriced for what one gets: low output, low runtime-boring


----------



## RI Chevy

To each his own.


----------



## djdawg

Ive found mine to be pretty good , so far its holding its brightness level good and easy to operate changein modes .........I like simplicity and being able to count on the light to work.


----------



## Grizzman

tom- said:


> overpriced for what one gets: low output, low runtime-boring



Thanks for the helpful post.


----------



## elzetta56

Grizzman said:


> Thanks for the helpful post.



I know right

The charlie on high runs over 800 lumens for close to an hour

Its awesome


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Planning on taking my Elzetta Charlie with me to Thanksgiving dinner.

Overkill? Yes,but why not?

(also have my Peak Eiger HiCRI in the 5th pocket of my jeans as backup..)


----------



## Bullzeyebill

tom- said:


> overpriced for what one gets: low output, low runtime-boring



Trolling are we?

Bill


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

1,966 posts. Seems the Elzetta generates more than a little interest. :thumbsup:

~ Chance


----------



## dc38

Ive been on the fence about elzettas...on one hand, probably the toughest host i will ever buy with one of the toughest drop ins known to man...on the other hand, can i justify dropping yet another two benjis after recently acquiring two HDS Roties? And a c2? Sigh. And then theres rent.


----------



## RI Chevy

AMD64Blondie said:


> Planning on taking my Elzetta Charlie with me to Thanksgiving dinner.
> 
> Overkill? Yes,but why not?
> 
> (also have my Peak Eiger HiCRI in the 5th pocket of my jeans as backup..)


Definitely a conversation piece!


----------



## Str8stroke

tom- said:


> overpriced for what one gets: low output, low runtime-boring


 :thinking: Rather short sighted, but too each is own.

For those who appreciate style, quality and performance:


----------



## ven

That looks awesome ! Loving the clip...........my wallet has ran away and hid.....


----------



## RI Chevy

Is that the Prometheus Clip?


----------



## Str8stroke

RI Chevy said:


> Is that the Prometheus Clip?


Yes indeed. I put it on a long time ago. It makes such a perfect EDC light. In order to make the clip work with no rattle when cap is loose for Low mode, you need a thin o-ring. Normally I have a black o-ring on it, but I used a green one for the photo so people could see it better and understand it. After a little testing, the O-ring needs to be on the underside of the clip for the best performance. This holds the clip in place and allows the tail cap to slide when twisting modes. By far the best clip I have found for it. I tried several styles. I absolutely can not stand the OEM Elzetta clip set up.


----------



## RI Chevy

Very cool. I really like it!


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> That looks awesome ! Loving the clip...........my wallet has ran away and hid.....



You should use your searchlights to search for it.


----------



## monanza

Nice Str8stroke!

For those who feel Elzettas are overpriced and boring: Everything we buy today is overpriced! As to boring, I would research very carefully any light that pushes the envelope to extremes when I have any expectations of ruggedness and durability. I'll still buy them if they are interesting enough but will not use them in such situations. No criticism intended, just offering an opinion and I welcome yours (pompous as that sounds).

EDIT: Well, maybe not everything is overpriced but markups tend to be high in general.


----------



## calflash

I'll play - elzetta bravo maybe 40 feet in the air landing on pavement:



It only took like about 15 tries to get a picture where you could see the light on... So I guess I'll treat myself to:
-a new bezel for cosmetics - it still unscrews
-a new lens because it cracked and the lip broke
-a new clip - but I think anyone could see that coming... Not exactly a winner of a clip
-and a new tail cap since its dented and cracked. Interestingly, the plastic insulator inside the tail cap also chipped/cracked.

BUT... It all screws together and High and Low still work despite the dents






Sorry for such poor quality pictures - they sure looked better before photobucket got done with them.


----------



## newbie66

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## vudoo

I think the "damage" makes it look tougher. I am too scared to smash my bravo around considering how much I spent for it.


----------



## kj2

Respect  Wouldn't try it with mine.


----------



## scs

Calflash, did it sustain the damages after the first several drops, or did they accumulate through 15 consecutive drops? If the former, then it sustained an awful lot of damage compared to the light dropped 300 feet shown in that youtube video don't you think?


----------



## scout24

Y'all crazy... :twothumbs:


----------



## monanza

And we love you for it. You saved us from the nagging desire to test ours.


----------



## calflash

To scs: It's definitely cumulative damage! I'll start by saying that there are only a couple lights I have confidently thrown like this and I have never tried this hard to "test" a light. This also isn't the first time I've chucked this specific light. It flipped and struck in almost every possible way. It landed mostly on pavement but a few times on the gravel and dirt. I'd guess at least a total of 30 throws that were all well above 30 feet and maybe pushing the 50 foot mark. 

The chipped lens was obviously from one of the hits to the side of the bezel as it rotated. The bezel isn't out of round though. The helicopter drop looks like it could have been a similar strike. Although the lens damage may have been from multiple crashes, I think the bezel is probably one place the AVS is a touch weaker than the Malkoff style. On the other hand, I guess this demonstrates the durability of the TIR compared to a glass lens which in this situation would have been completely destroyed beyond use.




I feel like the tail cap is the second weakest part of the light. The damage sustained is from multiple hits that were hard enough to turn the light off. The light did seem to hit the tail less often than the head though.
]

]



It's easy for me to conclude that the clip is the weakest part of one of these lights but it's good enough to hold the light in a pocket

bottom line: I could keep going with the abuse, but I have proved to myself that the potted AVS head is likely as reliable as the Malkoff drop-ins. All damaged parts are easy to replace although that hi/lo switch is a touch expensive. I am completely confident that this light can endure all normal abuse and most extreme abuse that it's subjected to and still keep working. I'm confident enough that I'd throw it again


----------



## Grizzman

Awesome. :thumbsup:

The crenellated bezel's additional thickness should provide more strength in that area.


----------



## Str8stroke

Who is the calflash fellow, I am hating but loving him! lol 
Pure Elzetta awesomeness. These lights are tanks, this is just further proof. Keep on smashing bro!


----------



## djdawg

Awsum ...........thanks for beating your light .......lol


----------



## elzetta56

damn thanks for the test...i couldnt do that to a 200$+ light but Im glad to know my AVS head will take a lickin...


Side question...what would a malkoff M60 module do in a charlie body with a hi/lo tail switch

brightness max vs continuous...
runtime... a graph would be great
woiuld there be a hi/lo and what would they be?


----------



## GodofLight

*Re: Elzetta Alpha Flood High/STrobe*

Hello guys, those anyone have an issue with high/strobe cap at Elzetta Alpha?
Cause I have a issue with this tailcap when in High mode the is ok like 315 lumen,
when I change into strobe the beam not that good just like 7 lumen! Is my tailcap
have a problem at all? Thanks


----------



## RI Chevy

Send an email to Dave at Elzetta. He can give you the absolute best response.


----------



## Welfare

Sorry for the poor photo quality.


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice. What happened to the Bravo body?


----------



## djdawg

Got my alpha in the mail today .......its actually a blacksheep model from blacksheep.com , pretty good , suppose to be 315 lm.
Its totally different than the bravo as far as beam goes and tint is different also .......pretty good close quarter light , not much for spot , which is good , I have enough of those .....lol
Iam wishing the bravo had the flood lense though ........... dj


----------



## RI Chevy

Get the interchangeable lens for what you need. Flood for the Alpha, and flood for the Bravo.


----------



## kj2

BSW is a great company to deal with. Bought both my Elzetta lights, at them.


----------



## rob74

Hi Gents,
I have an alpha , a bravo and a Charlie all with a high/low tailcaps . 
I have noticed that on my alpha the click is much louder than on the other two. 
Can anyone confirm that?
Tks.


----------



## RI Chevy

I haven't noticed any difference. I have all 3 as well.


----------



## Grizzman

My high/low tailcaps have varied amounts of audible click. Some are completely quiet, while others are quite audible.


----------



## kj2

The Hi/Lo on my Alpha is silent.


----------



## rob74

Thanks guys. It appears it's very variable.


----------



## Grizzman

Sometimes your Alpha tailcap is silent and other times it's not, or are you referring to variability from one specimen to another? I think each of mine is consistent in its audibility.


----------



## bykfixer

Grizzman said:


> Sometimes your Alpha tailcap is silent and other times it's not, or are you referring to variability from one specimen to another? I think each of mine is consistent in its audibility.



My 1st Alpha was near silent. The 2nd one has a bit of a click...more like a quiet 'snap' sound like a knuckle joint sound vs the typical ink pen sounding 'thap' or 'click' noise. 

I stashed the first one since it 'turbos' better and switch is so much quieter. That-away if they ever go away I have the better of the 2 to use if ever need be.

My current user has that rhythmic flicker that early models were plagued with....at certain location of the low in prevent turbo point it flickers from low to high for very short durations...at about 1 second intervals. I call it my Elzetta-strobe. A twist a couple of degrees one way or another makes it go away. Yet it seems to return when the light has rested a while.
Does it twist to the exact same point in my pocket? I doubt it. I read Elzetta will fix it. But it doesn't bother me enough to send it back tbh.

Yep, if you find the point it switches from high to low and rotate a little further towards low (counter clockwise) a firm press across the tail cap gives you a turbo. Twist further to about a half rotation or so and you always get low.


----------



## mckeand13

RI Chevy said:


> Nice. What happened to the Bravo body?



Looks like it was painted at some point and the an attempt was made to remove it.


----------



## scout24

RI Chevy said:


> Nice. What happened to the Bravo body?



I was thinking weapon mounted?


----------



## RI Chevy

scout24 said:


> I was thinking weapon mounted?


Same here.


----------



## djdawg

Got my first Charlie today ................love it , I got the flood lens though ........then put the flood on the Bravo and the regular lense on the charlie.
Gonna make a good truck light.


----------



## Welfare

RI Chevy said:


> Nice. What happened to the Bravo body?



Sorry for late reply. It was fully sprayed out in tan for a weapons mount, it took about 10 minutes with a scotch pad to remove but what you see now is caught in the knurling.


----------



## bykfixer

Just changed out my first battery in the Alpha. 

The battery station it came with lasted from August to yesterday after repeated daily use...mostly low mind you. And usually 5-10 minutes or less. But at least a few times everyday.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Decided to take my Elzetta Charlie in to work with me this morning.

(Crazy weather here..high winds-gusting maybe over 30 MPH,and some nasty rain as well.)

Might be overkill,since I only work the morning shift..but better safe then sorry.


----------



## kj2

AMD64Blondie said:


> ..but better safe then sorry.


True. :thumbsup:
Alpha sits in my pocket, every night.


----------



## Milw light

2100 said:


> I really love their lights. But I am not getting one because i can't slot my 18650s in there.


 That would be my problem too!


----------



## bykfixer

It's an Elzetta man!

Clamp that sucker in a vice, clamp said vice to a drill press, stick a 19mm bit on and have at it.

It freaks me out that folks won't buy a $200+ flashlight because it takes $4 in batteries to make it light.


----------



## JohnSmith

Milw light said:


> That would be my problem too!



Oveready bores them for lithium ions. They have a few bored Charlie AVS available right now. I bought one about a year ago and love it. I can run it on 2x18500 or 1x18650 with a spacer.


----------



## Grizzman

.....or you can take your $200 flashlight to the Post Office for a trip to Barry at PrecisionWorks. It'll come back with a bore befitting the rest of the light. His fee is more than Oveready, but you can send it in at any time (and wait a few months for lathe access).

As I type this, I've got a Bravo and a Charlie at Oveready being bored. The timing can be inconvenient, but the cost is only $21 for a Bravo.


----------



## mckeand13

Aren't there issues with a hi/low tailcap working on a bored body? Does the pogo pin drop into the bore instead of touching the face?


----------



## napeequa55

Curious about the bored out body as well. Seen a few in the classifieds here. Sorta interested in that but my only elzetta is mounted on my coyote gun and doesn't see too much run time anyway so maybe not worth it...


----------



## RI Chevy

The H/L switch works fine, it's the rotary/twisty that has issues with the bored body.


----------



## Andrey

Am I missing something? :thinking: Why not simply use 16340s/16650s? They've became really good recently. E.g. Keeppower.
That's my plan when I finally decide to get Charlie with AVS head.
I consider Malkoff offering 16650-based lights a highest approval for these cells.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Apropos of nothing but still Elzetta related, I wish I'd have been fast enough on the trigger to get one of the special edition yellow Duracoated Alphas.


----------



## ncgrass

Rob Babcock said:


> Apropos of nothing but still Elzetta related, I wish I'd have been fast enough on the trigger to get one of the special edition yellow Duracoated Alphas.



I saw an article on those just yesterday and was kicking myself for not being in the loop. They look fantastic.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

Rob Babcock said:


> Apropos of nothing but still Elzetta related, I wish I'd have been fast enough on the trigger to get one of the special edition yellow Duracoated Alphas.



I bought one of those... it is a nice light, but I wish it had been available with a high/low option.


----------



## mckeand13

Andrey said:


> Am I missing something? :thinking: Why not simply use 16340s/16650s? They've became really good recently. E.g. Keeppower.
> That's my plan when I finally decide to get Charlie with AVS head.
> I consider Malkoff offering 16650-based lights a highest approval for these cells.



Simple. 700mAH (16340) vs. 3400 mAH (18650).


----------



## Grizzman

Andrey said:


> Am I missing something? :thinking: Why not simply use 16340s/16650s? They've became really good recently. E.g. Keeppower.



The capacity of 18650s continues to increase at a faster rate than of any other cell size. 18650s are available at 3400-3500 mAh in both protected and unprotected varieties. AW's 3000 mAh IMR 18650 is also a valid option if a high capacity unprotected IMR cell is desired.


----------



## elzetta56

i added to my elzetta collection....i bought the 3 cell (charlie) with malkoff M60 , crenellated, hi/lo

the long runtime at 235 lumens intrigues me curious how the tint will compare to the avs

it was on sale for 151$ shipped...normally 210$


----------



## 1tac

How does this compare to the G700 i am seeing online?


----------



## bykfixer

^^ SCOOOOOOORRRR

Enjoy


----------



## elzetta56

bykfixer said:


> ^^ SCOOOOOOORRRR
> 
> Enjoy



Im actually thinking i might use the 235 lumens more at night on my property vs the 30 lumen low setting on avs head

I know we all get wrapped up in wanting the brightest light but how often do yall use the 900 lumens?


----------



## Rob Babcock

I don't use the uber high power all that often. When I do it's often just for kicks. But it's nice to have while camping; I've illuminated animal intruders wandering into camp on occasion.


----------



## bykfixer

I rarely use high settings after the initial getting familiar scenario. 

Actually I prefer a couple hundred lumens at most.
But it is fun to turn on a warehouse lighter to show off sometimes. 

Now I did learn programing a high lumen ten tap light over a glass table is a bad idea. By the time I got to program 3 (lo/hi) I was see-ing stars. lol


----------



## elzetta56

Who wished elzetta wpuld offer a low/medium/high avs option or a medium/high?

Thinking medium would be 100 lumens or thereabouts

Who is with me


----------



## RI Chevy

The Elzetta is not designed for a multi level output. It is a tactical light. On or off. There are numerous choices for multi level outputs. 
You have to keep the design and intent of the light in mind.

So I guess I would not be in favor of a multi level Elzetta. The Hi-low tailcap is perfect for me.


----------



## Grizzman

An Alpha high/low tail cap on a Bravo or Charlie with AVS head gives a higher output on low. When driven by two CR123s, it is approximately 180 lumens. From a single Li-Ion, the output is about 100 lumens, with high being approximately 500 lumens.

If Elzetta could do a three mode that utilizes the current spring loaded pin system, and have it be absolutely reliable, then I'd be willing to try it out. If it compromises reliability in any way, then I'm not interested. If the output is selected via the single switch, I'm not interested.


----------



## Welfare

Not for me thanks. The hi/low tail cap settings are perfect for me... A tail stand option would be good though? I know it doesn't fit with tactical set up of the light but I use mine for utility purposes nearly all the time.


----------



## Skaaphaas

Near-tragedy this morning. As per habit I slipped my Alpha into my pocket this morning. We went for a walk on the beach, and as I was chasing a crab in the small waves it slipped out of my pocket. 

Luckily my brother saw it and told me something fell. 

When the sea retreated again I saw it rolling in the sand, and managed to grab it just before the next wave got to it again. 

Rinsed it off and it is working perfectly (to be honest I didn't expect anything else), but I am VERY glad my brother saw it happen, otherwise I would have lost it today.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Skaaphaas said:


> Near-tragedy this morning. As per habit I slipped my Alpha into my pocket this morning. We went for a walk on the beach, and as I was chasing a crab in the small waves it slipped out of my pocket.
> 
> Luckily my brother saw it and told me something fell.
> 
> When the sea retreated again I saw it rolling in the sand, and managed to grab it just before the next wave got to it again.
> 
> Rinsed it off and it is working perfectly (to be honest I didn't expect anything else), but I am VERY glad my brother saw it happen, otherwise I would have lost it today.



Ah, the paradox of owning nice stuff! You buy it because it's a great light but you're afraid of losing it so you get a cheap one to carry. Not saying you do this, just that it's the temptation. I know I used to be afraid of losing my pricey Surefire E1b so I got a JETBeam BC10 for EDC. But what's the point of having two E1b's if they just sit at home?


----------



## Skaaphaas

I fully get what you mean. I'm not hard on my gear. Mainly because I don't put it to hard use as I'm afraid it will wear.


----------



## elzetta56

Grizzman said:


> If Elzetta could do a three mode that utilizes the current spring loaded pin system, and have it be absolutely reliable, then I'd be willing to try it out. If it compromises reliability in any way, then I'm not interested. If the output is selected via the single switch, I'm not interested.


 thats exactly how i feel


----------



## elzetta56

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=272085814775&alt=web


$151 elzetta charlie, hi/lo, crenellated, malkoff


----------



## flashy bazook

Rob Babcock said:


> Ah, the paradox of owning nice stuff! You buy it because it's a great light but you're afraid of losing it so you get a cheap one to carry. Not saying you do this, just that it's the temptation. I know I used to be afraid of losing my pricey Surefire E1b so I got a JETBeam BC10 for EDC. But what's the point of having two E1b's if they just sit at home?



You know the solution to this problem, don't you?

You buy a super-expensive McGizmo.

Then, your Elzetta (or SF E1, or whatever) will become the "cheap" daily-carry flashlight for you, and the McGizmo will take over as the house shelf-Queen!!


----------



## elzetta56

Comparing charlie AVS head vs charlie Malkoff head

Avs throws a larger diameter beam of light, it has a larger head
I also like the AVS better on low, and its obviously brighter than the m60 on both low and high

However i do like the malkoff on high at 235 lumens as its bright but not ridiculously so, and with 3 primaries, it has a longer run time, i find myself using the m60 on high outside the house at night quite a bit, the avs on high is a very very bright light that i dont need most of the time...dont get me wrong its nice to light up a huge area but i just dont use it much

Its also a whiter light than avs, no preference either way


----------



## RI Chevy

Does anyone know how many lights are produced on a special edition run? Like the latest yellow Alpha run, or the grey Bravo Stealth run? 
I would like to some SE Camo runs.


----------



## free2game

Str8stroke said:


> :thinking: Rather short sighted, but too each is own.
> 
> For those who appreciate style, quality and performance:


The high work fine on the high/low tailcap with that pocket clip attached?


----------



## Grizzman

free2game said:


> The high work fine on the high/low tailcap with that pocket clip attached?



Yes, and so does low.


----------



## free2game

Grizzman said:


> Yes, and so does low.


Cool. I've been looking at a new EDC light and was looking at the Alpha. Anyone else know if there are any other pocket clips that are confirmed to fit? I have a Raven Concealment clip that I use on a Surefire G2XLE. Anyone had any luck with the Malkoff clip? It's steel, which I'd prefer, and it seems like since they seem to both be P60 type lights, at least for the switches so they'd all fit.


----------



## Grizzman

I don't consider it very attractive, but the Malkoff clip does work. The Solarforce clip seems to be basically the same as the Malkoff, so it should also work. 






The Moddoolar clip for Surefire 6P also works, if you're lucky enough to locate one.


----------



## free2game

Yeah. Definitely see what you mean. Shame it seems like it's hard to find those GITD orings.


----------



## Flashatron

I'm looking for a ballistic nylon holster to fit the Bravo AVS 650 lumen model. If anybody knows where I can get this I would appreciate it. 
I wonder if Elzetta is going to introduce some awesome new products at Shot Show 2016?


----------



## scout24

neutralwhite- C'mon now, you've been here long enough to know that's not how sales work...


----------



## neutralwhite

oops sorry and thanks


scout24 said:


> neutralwhite- C'mon now, you've been here long enough to know that's not how sales work...


----------



## neutralwhite

Hey if I want to change the 235 M60 cool white drop in to say a neutral even hcri if they have one , 
whats a good replacement ?.
I like the bravo a lot but not so sure on the drop in now, and wondering if to keep it in there or change.

hcri would be good!. 
It's a high strobe tailcap.

thanks.


----------



## RI Chevy

Maybe the M61 219B V2. 93 CRI from Illum.com?


----------



## Mbehe87

From my understanding, the M61 dropin isn't fully sealed like the M60, so with the M61 you can't take the flashlight apart underwater like Elzetta does in one of their videos. There are a few custom M60's out there with warm or neutral emitters that Gene made as a limited run or custom order (back when he did those). There was a M60WL for sale on the exchange recently... it didn't sell and was eventually listed on eBay, not sure if it ever sold there or not.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I run a Malkoff M61N in one of my Bravos. It takes a lens and gasket kit but that's only a few bucks. I'd love to see M60 - type lenses for M61 drop ins!


----------



## Grizzman

If you prefer the ~4500K CCT, there were multiple runs of the M61 219A, so it should be easy to locate one on the used market. There were fewer of the B version sold, but they're definitely out there.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks,- would one of the 219a's be good for a bravo with a high and strobe mode?.
Makes sense ?.
trying to get at a hcri tactical!.

thanks.




Grizzman said:


> If you prefer the ~4500K CCT, there were multiple runs of the M61 219A, so it should be easy to locate one on the used market. There were fewer of the B version sold, but they're definitely out there.


----------



## Grizzman

The M61 219's hot spot is actually very similar in size to the M61. The spot to spill transition might be a little more gradual with the 219, but it's a subtle difference. The spot brightness to spill brightness is also very similar. Any difference in throw is almost exclusively due to the reduced output of the Nichia emitter.

The cool M61 generates around 325 lumens, and the neutral M61N generates 280 lumens. I personally consider this drop in lumens a fair trade-off to be basically guaranteed a good tint. Gaining a few CRI points isn't worth giving up 80 lumens in a tactical light. My Bravo (without AVS) either houses an N or an especially nice tinted cool M61.

It's not quite an ideal answer, but I'd almost rather buy a large handful of cool M61s, and keep the most neutral one for the Bravo, and sell the rest. This gives me max lumens and no blue.

I do think the 219's cool side of neutral would make strobe a bit more effective than the yellow side of neutral of the M61N.


----------



## cp2315

It took me quite a while to read the whole thread. I did not remember seeing any info about warranty. Does Elzetta also provide life time warranty like other U.S. Vendors such as surefire?

anyway, I believe I am ready to get a b333. Looking for best way to get it.


----------



## RI Chevy

Yes. Limited lifetime warranty.

Get the Alpha right from them.


----------



## bykfixer

I contacted Elzetta about the Alpha hi/lo tail cap flicker, noting I had bought it at a cop stuff store.
They told me send it in as that was a manufacturing issue and is covered under the lifetime warranty.

Never sent it though.

Btw it was a bundle from an authorized Elzetta seller that came with an extra battery and a lanyard ring for $15 less than at the Elzetta site.


----------



## Rob Babcock

My Alpha also has the "flicker" but it's such a minor issue to me that I haven't bothered to contact Elzetta about it.


----------



## cp2315

Thanks for the info guys. I ordered my b333 last night.


----------



## cp2315

Got it today. Love it! I am using 2 x efest 16340 cells. It is bright! solid and quite compact!


----------



## les_garten

Rob Babcock said:


> My Alpha also has the "flicker" but it's such a minor issue to me that I haven't bothered to contact Elzetta about it.




They turn things around pretty quick, just sayin'


----------



## Rob Babcock

les_garten said:


> They turn things around pretty quick, just sayin'




I guess I should. It doesn't bother me really but for $140 it might as well be perfect.


----------



## mckeand13

Rob Babcock said:


> I guess I should. It doesn't bother me really but for $140 it might as well be perfect.



A new Lexus might set you back $80K but they have problems too. High cost doesn't exclude a product from warranty issues.


----------



## bykfixer

The way I understand it, the first of the Alphas had the flicker and once Elzetta discovered the issue existed they quickly corrected it in future batches.

Strange thing is when I first began using mine it did not flicker. I remember thinking "phew, didn't get one that flickers." After a couple of weeks it began to flicker. 
I suppose if I was going to send it back I probably would have by now.


----------



## gravelrash

I got my first Elzetta! I bought myself an Alpha for Christmas. It had the flickering problem on low; called, sent back and received a week later perfectly functioning. I bought the clip and now it is in my regular EDC rotation. Truly a great tool.


----------



## bykfixer

Great tool indeed!


----------



## Tac Gunner

Just got my first Elzetta today thanks to their tax day give way and so far I really like it. I had looked at them when they first came out but never did purchase one despite them being made in the next county over. 

I do have one question for you guys who have more experience with them. Is the tail cap supposed to be loose on the threads and have some up/down side-by-side movement when loosened? I have the hight/low tail cap on a bravo body with an AVS head. When loosened for low mode, I have to give it a half turn to get it to not go into high mode when I press the tail cap for on or off because otherwise the whole tail cap will move down enough to activate high mode. I read thread the thread and it seems to be a common complaint about the tail cap threads but I was just wanting to make sure the tail cap was functioning correctly.


----------



## mckeand13

Yours is operating as they all do, you'll get used to it. 

Its just their crappy threading on the tail cap and body. You'd expect a lot better given the price and reputation, but they've told me they are fine with the current quality when I've asked about the threads on the phone.


----------



## les_garten

Tac Gunner said:


> Just got my first Elzetta today thanks to their tax day give way and so far I really like it. I had looked at them when they first came out but never did purchase one despite them being made in the next county over.
> 
> I do have one question for you guys who have more experience with them. Is the tail cap supposed to be loose on the threads and have some up/down side-by-side movement when loosened? I have the hight/low tail cap on a bravo body with an AVS head. When loosened for low mode, I have to give it a half turn to get it to not go into high mode when I press the tail cap for on or off because otherwise the whole tail cap will move down enough to activate high mode. I read thread the thread and it seems to be a common complaint about the tail cap threads but I was just wanting to make sure the tail cap was functioning correctly.




They don't use enough threads for the Tailpiece IMO. I just got 3 bodies over-bored by Oveready and they now have more threads engaging and feel very solid.


----------



## mckeand13

How did boring get more thread engagement?


----------



## les_garten

mckeand13 said:


> How did boring get more thread engagement?



I think they eliminated an O-ring or something.


----------



## Grizzman

In my hands, I have three Elzettas. One is stock, a second one was bored by Oveready a few years ago, and the third one was bored as part of their most recent batch. 

The threads of the stock and recently bored one are the same. The one previously bored had an additional o-ring channel machined into the body, leaving three (or so) threads. The tailcap, at least my high/low ones, only engages three (or so) threads so this additional channel should't affect thread engagement. I would also prefer more engagement, but it does work adequately well as it is.


----------



## les_garten

Grizzman said:


> In my hands, I have three Elzettas. One is stock, a second one was bored by Oveready a few years ago, and the third one was bored as part of their most recent batch.
> 
> The threads of the stock and recently bored one are the same. The one previously bored had an additional o-ring channel machined into the body, leaving three (or so) threads. The tailcap, at least my high/low ones, only engages three (or so) threads so this additional channel should't affect thread engagement. I would also prefer more engagement, but it does work adequately well as it is.



I must have misunderstood the statement in the Bore thread then. There is something about the threads that doesn't seem to measure up to the rest of the light.


----------



## Tac Gunner

Thanks for the replies guys. I was just double checking before I emailed them, appears there is no need in doing that if it's normal. A boy in my class has a Charlie with the high/low and I couldn't remember if his acted that way or not. I am really surprised though that they are ok with the lacking quality of the threads, I mean my Solarforce L2 has better threads on the tail cap. I also would have thought being has expensive and tough as they are they would be square threads instead of regular triangle cut but I see that isn't the case. Square threads would have worked a lot better with the way they have the mode switching mechanism in the tailcap.


----------



## Grizzman

My guess is that if the threads were a tight fit, then it wouldn't be possible to tighten or loosen the tailcap with one hand....something that's much more tactically important.

Given the choice between tight, with two hands required, and loose, I choose loose.


----------



## les_garten

Grizzman said:


> My guess is that if the threads were a tight fit, then it wouldn't be possible to tighten or loosen the tailcap with one hand....something that's much more tactically important.
> 
> Given the choice between tight, with two hands required, and loose, I choose loose.



Good point. I guess the square threads may be a lot stiffer to move and require 2 hands.


----------



## Tac Gunner

Grizzman said:


> My guess is that if the threads were a tight fit, then it wouldn't be possible to tighten or loosen the tailcap with one hand....something that's much more tactically important.
> 
> Given the choice between tight, with two hands required, and loose, I choose loose.





les_garten said:


> Good point. I guess the square threads may be a lot stiffer to move and require 2 hands.



Both good points I hadn't considered. There could have been more threads though that way when loosened there still would have plenty for the tail cap to engage and not rock as much.


----------



## les_garten

Tac Gunner said:


> Both good points I hadn't considered. There could have been more threads though that way when loosened there still would have plenty for the tail cap to engage and not rock as much.



I don't know what it is, but my bored bodies seem more solid.


----------



## Grizzman

I can perform a more thorough (not simply visual) inspection of the group today after work. It's possible that the machine shop altered the threads in a way to improve the interface with the tailcap.


----------



## les_garten

Grizzman said:


> I can perform a more thorough (not simply visual) inspection of the group today after work. It's possible that the machine shop altered the threads in a way to improve the interface with the tailcap.



In the bore thread, what were you referring to here:



> I like that the 2nd 0-ring slot has been replaced by additional threads.


----------



## scs

Grizzman said:


> My guess is that if the threads were a tight fit, then it wouldn't be possible to tighten or loosen the tailcap with one hand....something that's much more tactically important.
> 
> Given the choice between tight, with two hands required, and loose, I choose loose.



Is the tailcap operation similar to that for the Surefire 6P? If so, I have no problem tightening and loosening it with one hand, using my thumb and index finger, and the 6P tailcap does not wobble or feel loose. I feel most of the resistance actually comes from the o-ring, not the threads.


----------



## scs

Grizzman said:


> ...but it does work adequately well as it is.


But their prices are way beyond adequate though.


----------



## Grizzman

I don't use the 2nd o-ring in the new slot that the machine slot cut, since the additional friction from the o-ring makes one handed mode switching basically impossible. The 2nd o-ring also makes it more difficult to install the tailcap. Since I don't use the slot, it might as well not exist, leading to more structural integrity.

I figure if Elzetta is happy with the water resistance provided by one o-ring, then that's enough for me.


----------



## Grizzman

scs said:


> But their prices are way beyond adequate though.



I've bought a couple used ones from CPF members at slightly modded 6P prices. They've been available in the past on Amazon for very attractive prices. If ya don't like the full retail price, there are certainly alternatives.




scs said:


> Is the tailcap operation similar to that for the Surefire 6P? If so, I have no problem tightening and loosening it with one hand, using my thumb and index finger, and the 6P tailcap does not wobble or feel loose. I feel most of the resistance actually comes from the o-ring, not the threads.



The knurling on the Z41 greatly improves the ability to loosen or tighten it with one hand. Elzettas have very fine knurling on the body, which I wished were a little more aggressive, and also applied to the tailcap, which is quite smooth. I agree that the o-rings contribute quite a bit to the resistance felt.


----------



## bykfixer

In the age of NiteCore, Olight and ThruNite the Elzetta seems way over priced.

Those others are built to drop from shoulder height onto concrete 10-15 times without harm. 
Elzettas are built to be thrown off a rocky cliff as many times as you want to without harm. 

Regarding their threads, they were engineered for rapid battery swap in combat situations. 
So like a weapon to be used in combat a soldier practices disassembling and reassembling his/her weapon. Same goes for an Elzetta. With practice, depleted batteries can be swapped out much quicker than with other brands. 

They're certainly not for everybody.


----------



## les_garten

bykfixer said:


> Regarding their threads, they were engineered for rapid battery swap in combat situations.
> So like a weapon to be used in combat a soldier practices disassembling and reassembling his/her weapon. Same goes for an Elzetta. With practice, depleted batteries can be swapped out much quicker than with other brands.
> 
> They're certainly not for everybody.



I don't get this part.

I have never had a light that was more difficult to easily thread the front or back "caps"

I feel like I am always almost cross threaded. Never felt this in any other light I have.

I have 3 of them


----------



## Tac Gunner

bykfixer said:


> In the age of NiteCore, Olight and ThruNite the Elzetta seems way over priced.
> 
> Those others are built to drop from shoulder height onto concrete 10-15 times without harm.
> Elzettas are built to be thrown off a rocky cliff as many times as you want to without harm.
> 
> Regarding their threads, they were engineered for rapid battery swap in combat situations.
> So like a weapon to be used in combat a soldier practices disassembling and reassembling his/her weapon. Same goes for an Elzetta. With practice, depleted batteries can be swapped out much quicker than with other brands. g
> They're certainly not for everybody.


I have to agree about the price. When I first discovered them in about 2009 (at that time they were still a small local company selling only in local guns stores) you could get the Bravo model for $150. They only offered it with the M60 drop in but the 150 was the same no matter the tail cap option or bezel. Once they gained popularity and went national and even international, they almost doubled the price. By then I had discovered this site and found out Elzetta is a nice P60 host using tried and true Malkoff drop ins. After that I never really had much interest in them but after wining this Bravo, that has changed. Besides the tail cap threads, the fit and finish is really nice and it's definitely a heavy duty host. Of course with the proven Malkoff designed drop in, you have a tough as nails light.

I still think for the majority of my tasks though I can get by just fine with Fenix or Solarforce hosts with a Malkoff or other well made drop in.


----------



## ch4ins4w

I love idea of the Bravo with Hi/Lo tailcap for an edc light. The size and UI seems perfect to me. Can you mod a P60 drop-in to fit in the Elzetta? Basically, I want to use the Bravo as a host for my own drop-in, but don't know if it will work.


----------



## Tac Gunner

ch4ins4w said:


> I love idea of the Bravo with Hi/Lo tailcap for an edc light. The size and UI seems perfect to me. Can you mod a P60 drop-in to fit in the Elzetta? Basically, I want to use the Bravo as a host for my own drop-in, but don't know if it will work.


From my understanding and what I have read, not easily. It seems the host itself would have to be modified as the light was designed solely for the Malkoff drop-ins. Now if you had a drop-in made with the same dimensions as a Malkoff I don't see why it wouldn't work. I'd like to get a Charlie model, bore it to except 18mm cells, have an all copper XHP70 drop-in built for it, and run it on two IMR 18500 cells. I think that would make for a heck of a light.


----------



## Grizzman

I can't explain why, but when loosened 1 full turn, my recently bored (by Oveready) bodies exhibit less play than my stock bodies. Well, less than most of my stock bodies. One of them has more play than the rest, with two tailcaps, and nearly equal play as the stock ones with a 3rd. I guess I can attribute that to tolerance stacking.


----------



## Slumber

I liked running a second O-ring when they still made them with the second groove. I prefer more resistant action when twisting the Tailcap, mostly to eliminate any play or wobble. Now I fill the gap between the tail cap and body with two #40 Danco o-rings. When in low mode, there's no wobble, but it takes two hands to tighten the last 1/4 turn of the tail cap to squish the O-rings and go to high. Not real tactical, but neither am I.


----------



## neutralwhite

Re an 18650 oveready bravo, is there any drop in which could be 5000k and maybe hcri to fit?.
is there a drop in like that or could one be built?.


any ideas what's best for that set up?.

thanks everyone!.


----------



## neutralwhite

bump...


----------



## RI Chevy

The only thing that comes to mind right away is the M61 219B V1. It is 4500K and about 93CRI. It should fit right in nicely.


----------



## neutralwhite

Thanks , I thought that was 4000k.
Also I wonder if the leds on that can be changed to 5000.




RI Chevy said:


> The only thing that comes to mind right away is the M61 219B V1. It is 4500K and about 93CRI. It should fit right in nicely.


----------



## RI Chevy

The M61 219B V2 is 4000K 93CRI. The V1 is 4500K. It throws a whitish clear light. Very crisp.


----------



## Crushmaster

Could someone who had the high/low flicker problem describe it to me, please? I can't tell if I have an issue or not...It's my first Alpha.


----------



## bykfixer

About once every 10-15 seconds, maybe as short as 5, or as long as 30...

But what ever the interval, it will seemingly surge to high from low.
It's a thing where at first you think "did my light just turn up to high for say 0.008 seconds and the return to low or am I crazy?" 

If you have the 30 second or more duration between flickers it'll drive you nuts in use while you ponder "did it really just do that?" 
It happens in regular intervals though whatever the duration. I mean like clockwork. 

Mine was a 13 second interval. Elzetta will gladly fix it. 
It kinda grew on me and I learned to twist the tailcap a few degrees each time I turned it on to make it go away if it bugged me. Still have it, just use a different tailcap these days. 

I've read Elzetta corrected the problem so yours may not do it at all.


----------



## bykfixer

This site is very good at thwarting the double post thing.
But every so often lagging signals sneak one through.


----------



## Crushmaster

Alright, thank you. Looks like mine's fine, then, since it's not doing that...Just not used to the twisty tailcap yet. 

Oh, and for anyone's future reference: I was kind of weirded out by the low mode flickering a little bit brighter when the boot was depressed, but that's how the switch functions, so it makes sense.


----------



## bykfixer

Ordered some parts n pieces from the Elzetta site at 7:00 am today.
8:15 am receive notice it shipped...2 day priority.

Nice!


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

bykfixer said:


> Ordered some parts n pieces from the Elzetta site at 7:00 am today.
> 8:15 am receive notice it shipped...2 day priority.
> 
> Nice!




Did you track it yet? One of my pet peeves is when something is marked shipped when a company (or person on Ebay) prints the shipping label, and then it doesn't go out for a few days.


----------



## les_garten

fresh eddie fresh said:


> Did you track it yet? One of my pet peeves is when something is marked shipped when a company (or person on Ebay) prints the shipping label, and then it doesn't go out for a few days.



My experience with them is that they deliver product fast.


----------



## bykfixer

fresh eddie fresh said:


> Did you track it yet? One of my pet peeves is when something is marked shipped when a company (or person on Ebay) prints the shipping label, and then it doesn't go out for a few days.



Was at the local post office at 10:15 same morning. 

Now it's up to Uncle Sam. 

Agreed; they had created a pittney bowes label, which prompts a 'shipped' email. 
But yeah, Elzetta gets it going to you fast.


----------



## bykfixer

Got the stuff already... 2 day turn around. 

Elzetta has Elzetta bubble wrap.




Woohoo!!

It's the little things. 
And as always the order was correct, got to me fast and included their latest sticker among other swag.

Now where did I put that MaxFire? Got a lanyard ring to retro-fit on it....


----------



## Robone

I received an Alpha the other day and have had a Bravo and a Charlie (both with AVS heads) for a couple of years now. The anodizing on the Alpha is different. It's flat/dull/powder coat/matte looking and feeling compared to the others. Is this the new finish on all Elzetta torches or just the Alpha's ? Or is mine just different ? Great light by the way.


----------



## bykfixer

My 015 alpha is a no shine what so ever finish.
No worries about toughness of that finish though. It's plenty durable.


----------



## the0dore3524

Robone said:


> I received an Alpha the other day and have had a Bravo and a Charlie (both with AVS heads) for a couple of years now. The anodizing on the Alpha is different. It's flat/dull/powder coat/matte looking and feeling compared to the others. Is this the new finish on all Elzetta torches or just the Alpha's ? Or is mine just different ? Great light by the way.



I think that might be normal, mine is the same. I wasn't aware that it was different for their other lights, though.


----------



## Grizzman

If the HA is dry, some oil can be applied to turn it a darker black color. Pretty much any oil will work, even synthetic motor oil.

One of mine was a bit dry/chalky when I received it, so I rubbed some Shooter's Choice FP-10 on it. Today there's no way to tell which one it was.


----------



## Slumber

They smooth out with use. All new Elzettas I've ever handled have the matte, chalky finish. With use, they smooth out a little.


----------



## JPA261

Just got a newsletter from Elzetta saying that the Alpha now produces 415 lumens but increasing runtime by 10%. Hmmm, might have to pick one up


----------



## kj2

Yeah saw that too. Already had mine configured and in the shopping cart, but am also looking at a Malkoff M61-HOT.
So haven't ordered the new version.. yet


----------



## Robone

I wonder if they've actually changed anything or just trying to generate new interest in the alpha or just updating the specs. According to Mr. Flashlightguide's runtime chart they turn on at 400 lumens or so (120%) anyway. Dialing down over a few minutes after that of course. Besides it would need to be over 470 lumens for there to be a visual difference. 50% increase for a small but noticeable difference. On the site , the runtime nor candella has changed (could be an oversight ).


----------



## the0dore3524

Hmm...that's very interesting. It also looks like they updated the high/low tailcap to 15 lumens from 7 lumens. If I were to get the new tailcap and put it on my current Alpha, would it get the 15 lumens? Sorry, noob question probably, but I want to make sure.


----------



## Robone

I talked to Dave, Mr. Elzetta himself. The upgrade/changes are only the emitter and electronics so all the modularity is the same. The candela has intentionally remained the same with a larger hot spot. The tint is the same and runtime has increased 5 minutes. He discussed the fact that you wouldn't notice the difference in output accept in a side by side comparison and even then it would be slight. So it doesn't make our current 315 models obsolete. The packaging still has the 315 on it but a note is put inside to indicate that you have received the updated version. (if you order directly from them). There's also a discount right now. And can you believe that I forgot to ask what the new emitter is ?


----------



## kj2

Robone said:


> And can you believe that I forgot to ask what the new emitter is ?





Elzetta could probably answer that, via email


----------



## Robone

kj2 said:


> Elzetta could probably answer that, via email
> I deleted my response because I completely misread your post.


----------



## RI Chevy

Robone said:


> I talked to Dave, Mr. Elzetta himself. The upgrade/changes are only the emitter and electronics so all the modularity is the same. The candela has intentionally remained the same with a larger hot spot. The tint is the same and runtime has increased 5 minutes. He discussed the fact that you wouldn't notice the difference in output accept in a side by side comparison and even then it would be slight. So it doesn't make our current 315 models obsolete. The packaging still has the 315 on it but a note is put inside to indicate that you have received the updated version. (if you order directly from them). There's also a discount right now. And can you believe that I forgot to ask what the new emitter is ?


This is the politically correct answer. For all intents and purposes, the old ones are obsolete.


----------



## Robone

RI Chevy said:


> This is the politically correct answer. For all intents and purposes, the old ones are obsolete.[/Q
> 
> I must apologize. The sentence in my post about not being obsolete is my thought. That is the only statement that was not from him. However it would take more than a 33% increase in output for there to be any noticeable difference, correct ? It seems to be a 50% increase needed. Of course you're absolutely right !!!! I'm just trying to feel better about the one I just bought a week ago from a third party. I have many torches that are 1000 lumens + but that doesn't mean that the ones with lesser output are obsolete (no longer used ). Obsolete= no longer produced ? YES. Obsolete= no longer used ? I'll still use it.


----------



## JPA261

Robone said:


> Answered above. The high/low tailcap will not increase the output on the 315 model. All modularity remains the same.



So are you saying that the high low will still be 315 lumens and not 415?


----------



## Robone

JPA261 said:


> So are you saying that the high low will still be 315 lumens and not 415?



Sorry, I did ask and was told that the high /low tailcap is the same and would not increase the output on the 315 version.


----------



## JPA261

Robone said:


> Sorry, I did ask and was told that the high /low tailcap is the same and would not increase the output on the 315 version.


Hmm, That is strange. Well, might just buy a clicky version then. Thanks


----------



## Robone

The change is the emitter and the driver so none of the tailcap varieties are different thus would not cause a change in output. So if we have the 315 that's what we get, no matter the tailcap.


----------



## Grizzman

....and if we have the new 415, then that's what we get.

The old low was 7 lumens, and the new low is 15 lumens....no matter what high/low tailcap is used.


I may prefer the 15 lumen low enough for an upgrade to be worthwhile. I'm somewhat surprised that the new hotspot is even larger than the old one....which was very floody.


----------



## bykfixer

I did not know they could make it even 'floodier'... 
Wow!

It sounds like the resistor reduces output to a percentage of full output. Same percentage in the new version as the older one perhaps? 

I liked the 7 lumen low. Great 'battle action' map reader without giving away your position. 
How many times are we gonna need that? lol. Hopefully never. 

But 15 will probably be useful in more everyday real world scenarios.


----------



## nmiller

Robone said:


> I talked to Dave, Mr. Elzetta himself. The upgrade/changes are only the emitter and electronics so all the modularity is the same. The candela has intentionally remained the same with a larger hot spot. The tint is the same and runtime has increased 5 minutes. He discussed the fact that you wouldn't notice the difference in output accept in a side by side comparison and even then it would be slight. So it doesn't make our current 315 models obsolete. The packaging still has the 315 on it but a note is put inside to indicate that you have received the updated version. (if you order directly from them). There's also a discount right now. And can you believe that I forgot to ask what the new emitter is ?




Discount?


----------



## Robone

10% discount code : newsite


----------



## nmiller

Thanks! You just cost me a few bucks


----------



## bykfixer

^^ 10% less though...


----------



## JPA261

Yeah why did Elzetta need to do the discount now?! I just bought the new surefire EB1 a couple days ago and now a new Alpha. Oh well, glad they did it though. Saved me some miney


----------



## nmiller

I'm glad it's only 10%. If it was more I'd be tempted to buy more than an Alpha...


----------



## Skaaphaas

I discovered a crack in my Alpha's TIR lens today. Don't even know where it came from, haven't dropped or even used this light in ages. 

Used it tonight for the braai (grilling meat, only more manly) and appreciated the tint again.


----------



## JPA261

Skaaphaas said:


> I discovered a crack in my Alpha's TIR lens today. Don't even know where it came from, haven't dropped or even used this .



Well a call to Elzetta's fantastic customer
Service can fix that.


----------



## Skaaphaas

JPA261 said:


> Well a call to Elzetta's fantastic customer
> Service can fix that.


Me being in South Africa I'm going to work through the importer.


----------



## neutralwhite

elzetta are very helpful!


----------



## Robone

So I received my 415 lumen Alpha today. The hotspot is much larger and the tint is not as warm. It actually appears to be the tint of the AVS heads. BUT, it has problems. Flicker on high, two low modes ?, did I say flicker ?..... Got an RMA but I have to pay for shipping !!!!!! I haven't had the light an hour, the light has problems out of the box and I have to pay for shipping. Very unhappy. To me it's not "Warranty" if it's BRAND NEW and is faulty. Sorry and thanks.


----------



## les_garten

Robone said:


> So I received my 415 lumen Alpha today. The hotspot is much larger and the tint is not as warm. It actually appears to be the tint of the AVS heads. BUT, it has problems. Flicker on high, two low modes ?, did I say flicker ?..... Got an RMA but I have to pay for shipping !!!!!! I haven't had the light an hour, the light has problems out of the box and I have to pay for shipping. Very unhappy. To me it's not "Warranty" if it's BRAND NEW and is faulty. Sorry and thanks.



Did you buy it directly through Elzetta?


----------



## JPA261

Robone said:


> So I received my 415 lumen Alpha today. The hotspot is much larger and the tint is not as warm. It actually appears to be the tint of the AVS heads. BUT, it has problems. Flicker on high, two low modes ?, did I say flicker ?..... Got an RMA but I have to pay for shipping !!!!!! I haven't had the light an hour, the light has problems out of the box and I have to pay for shipping. Very unhappy. To me it's not "Warranty" if it's BRAND NEW and is faulty. Sorry and thanks.



That stinks, mine just shipped. Did you get the High/Low tailcap? I got the clicky tailcap so I hope that doesn't happen with that style.


----------



## Robone

JPA261 said:


> That stinks, mine just shipped. Did you get the High/Low tailcap? I got the clicky tailcap so I hope that doesn't happen with that style.



Yes, high/low and I tested it with the other high/low Alpha tail that I have.


----------



## Robone

les_garten said:


> Did you buy it directly through Elzetta?



Yes and I called and got an RMA number.


----------



## les_garten

Robone said:


> Yes and I called and got an RMA number.



I would agree, they should pay the freight back. Take a video proving it has an issue. Post it here and call them and renegotiate if you can't live with the $5 freight.


----------



## GoVegan

JPA261 said:


> That stinks, mine just shipped. Did you get the High/Low tailcap? I got the clicky tailcap so I hope that doesn't happen with that style.



JPA261,
I seem to recall that you weren't happy with your last Elzetta Alpha, you back for another go with one?

...
haha yep just did a search and yes now I remember you sold your last one as you weren't happy with the 315 lumen older version not having enough of a hot-spot. Yeah I was also concerned about the same thing so haven't pulled the trigger on a Alpha for the last 6 months. I was concerned about the candela only being 1900, as I'm coming from an EDC'ing a Streamlight Protac 1AA for a couple of years and then the Protac 1L for the last 8 months. Really wasn't happy with the flickering on the Protac 1AA (both of them although 1 was much worse). I was very happy with the 1L until about a few weeks ago where I guess I had the dreaded tailcap come loose just a few degrees issue and it looses electrical connection then only flashes on for a split second until tightening the tailcap (I think ForrestChump and bykfixer also reported the same problem), that and the unreliability on the 1AA models made me want something more reliable. For a while I've had my 1L programmed to high only as I need it to come on high every time, in fact it literally saved my life 1 week ago (story for another day).

Anyway I had been expecting the Alpha to be updated any time soon and I think I'll be happy with the current 415 lumens especially the added runtime! I also decided on the Click tail cap (high only). I was going to order last night but was too tired then I see Robone's post this morning. Very disappointed to hear that Elzetta are still shipping out lights with flickering issues, that could probably be solved by 60 seconds of testing before shipping. Dave should be getting his staff to pull out every one from the packaging and test them. This is not what I would expect from a company that prides itself on making the toughest and best engineered flashlights on the planet.

Now not sure if I should wait or what. 

BTW are you using this as a tactical pocket duty light, or off duty, do you intend to pocket carry or use the speed clip?

Well that was a lot of typing, normally I read the forum everyday, but can't be bothered to login.


----------



## GoVegan

Robone said:


> Yes, high/low and I tested it with the other high/low Alpha tail that I have.



Robone,


Sorry but could you please confirm if the new one that you just had delivered and was flickering, was the issue with the body/head or the High-Low Tailcap? I.e. was the new Alpha still flickering with your old High-Low Tailcap?

I feel for you, that's really too bad.


----------



## bykfixer

GoVegan said:


> JPA261,
> I seem to recall that you weren't happy with your last Elzetta Alpha, you back for another go with one?
> 
> ...
> haha yep just did a search and yes now I remember you sold your last one as you weren't happy with the 315 lumen older version not having enough of a hot-spot. Yeah I was also concerned about the same thing so haven't pulled the trigger on a Alpha for the last 6 months. I was concerned about the candela only being 1900, as I'm coming from an EDC'ing a Streamlight Protac 1AA for a couple of years and then the Protac 1L for the last 8 months. Really wasn't happy with the flickering on the Protac 1AA (both of them although 1 was much worse). I was very happy with the 1L until about a few weeks ago where I guess I had the dreaded tailcap come loose just a few degrees issue and it looses electrical connection then only flashes on for a split second until tightening the tailcap (I think ForrestChump and bykfixer also reported the same problem), that and the unreliability on the 1AA models made me want something more reliable. For a while I've had my 1L programmed to high only as I need it to come on high every time, in fact it literally saved my life 1 week ago (story for another day).
> 
> Anyway I had been expecting the Alpha to be updated any time soon and I think I'll be happy with the current 415 lumens especially the added runtime! I also decided on the Click tail cap (high only). I was going to order last night but was too tired then I see Robone's post this morning. Very disappointed to hear that Elzetta are still shipping out lights with flickering issues, that could probably be solved by 60 seconds of testing before shipping. Dave should be getting his staff to pull out every one from the packaging and test them. This is not what I would expect from a company that prides itself on making the toughest and best engineered flashlights on the planet.
> 
> Now not sure if I should wait or what.
> 
> BTW are you using this as a tactical pocket duty light, or off duty, do you intend to pocket carry or use the speed clip?
> 
> Well that was a lot of typing, normally I read the forum everyday, but can't be bothered to login.



I had a lot of trouble with the ProTac EMS. But I put some pipe dope on a few threads and now it stays tight. Such a shame a potentially great light like the ProTac series is plagued with o-rings that crush over time allowing the tail cap to loosen so easily. 




The bare end of the light rests in that little groove. 
Great for a 'lockout' feature but some of their lights have issues with fit and a slight loosen of the tailcap interupts contact.

But btt..speaking of plagued by;
I had read Elzetta resolved the flickering issue in the 315 model of the Alpha. 
Mine did not flicker for the first few weeks. 
I noted a slight rotation on low setting would cease the flicker. My spare one did not ever flicker. 
Elzetta offered to fix it. But I put on a tailcap from a Powertac Warrior, which starts on low, gives me 4 brightness levels and the sideswitch momentaries high strobe. 



Plus, a skull cracker setup allows it to tailstand. It now serves as a bedside table light. Perfect 2am brightness with ability to insta-strobe while I reach for (you fill in the blank) if need be. 

GoVegan, if you have not pulled the trigger on the new Alpha, consider PK's new one. The PR-1. Starts on high, has a way better throw than the Alpha and coming soon Lego stuff like shrouded tailcap for standing and deeper reflector for more throw.


----------



## JPA261

GoVegan said:


> JPA261,
> I seem to recall that you weren't happy with your last Elzetta Alpha, you back for another go with one?
> 
> ...
> haha yep just did a search and yes now I remember you sold your last one as you weren't happy with the 315 lumen older version not having enough of a hot-spot. Yeah I was also concerned about the same thing so haven't pulled the trigger on a Alpha for the last 6 months. I was concerned about the candela only being 1900, as I'm coming from an EDC'ing a Streamlight Protac 1AA for a couple of years and then the Protac 1L for the last 8 months. Really wasn't happy with the flickering on the Protac 1AA (both of them although 1 was much worse). I was very happy with the 1L until about a few weeks ago where I guess I had the dreaded tailcap come loose just a few degrees issue and it looses electrical connection then only flashes on for a split second until tightening the tailcap (I think ForrestChump and bykfixer also reported the same problem), that and the unreliability on the 1AA models made me want something more reliable. For a while I've had my 1L programmed to high only as I need it to come on high every time, in fact it literally saved my life 1 week ago (story for another day).
> 
> Anyway I had been expecting the Alpha to be updated any time soon and I think I'll be happy with the current 415 lumens especially the added runtime! I also decided on the Click tail cap (high only). I was going to order last night but was too tired then I see Robone's post this morning. Very disappointed to hear that Elzetta are still shipping out lights with flickering issues, that could probably be solved by 60 seconds of testing before shipping. Dave should be getting his staff to pull out every one from the packaging and test them. This is not what I would expect from a company that prides itself on making the toughest and best engineered flashlights on the planet.
> 
> Now not sure if I should wait or what.
> 
> BTW are you using this as a tactical pocket duty light, or off duty, do you intend to pocket carry or use the speed clip?
> 
> Well that was a lot of typing, normally I read the forum everyday, but can't be bothered to login.



I am going to try the new 415 lumen version. Really like the tint but trying to find a pocket clip is a pain. I recently like the thyrm switchback and really use to it now. So I may give the Alpha another go around with the switchback. 

I plan on using this light as an off duty/back up light.

I also just bought the upgraded Surefire EB1 300 lumen model, but lacked runtime. So want to see how this compares in runtime.


----------



## GoVegan

KK, yeah will def be interested to hear your opinion of the new Alpha when it arrives, especially as you had the older version and because of your perspective from your line of work. Yep I saw that you bought the upgraded 300 lumen EB1, I normally pay attention to your posts and along with a handful of other members (you all know who you are) as you guys only go for good quality lights, none of the cheap stuff that is so often recommended on this forum. lol


----------



## JPA261

Well thanks, and that's good to hear GoVegan. I'll definitely let you know what I think.


----------



## Robone

GoVegan said:


> Robone,
> 
> 
> Sorry but could you please confirm if the new one that you just had delivered and was flickering, was the issue with the body/head or the High-Low Tailcap? I.e. was the new Alpha still flickering with your old High-Low Tailcap?
> 
> I feel for you, that's really too bad.



Yea it was flickering with both tailcaps and the 315 was fine with both. I sent it back this morning. Shipping was $3.59 so I can't whine too much. I called first to confirm that I was to pay for shipping and was told yes but they usually throw in extra batteries upon return. So that makes it right I suppose. By the way I did compare the two last night. As mentioned it is 5000k or so on the tint and the throw is the same but you have a much larger area of light at that range. There's no real defined hot spot on either one unless you're white walling it. The spill is a little brighter too. Didn't get a chance to identify the emitter before I sent it off but it's obviously a larger one. I'm thinking XP-L ?


----------



## JPA261

Robone,

So did you experience the flickering when you were switching from high to low? Or was it just doing it when you lightly press it?


----------



## Robone

JPA261 said:


> Robone,
> 
> So did you experience the flickering when you were switching from high to low? Or was it just doing it when you lightly press it?



Both. When turning on in high there's a dip down and back up. One time at turn on but every time for a half second or so. From high, while on and turning to low - all kinds of flickering of inconsistent patterns. Even having a lower low and ramping back up. Turn on from low and same flickering and lower low/ ramping, etc. All of this happens with a full click or half press, both tailcaps and both tested on other alpha. It's weird because the first time I turned it on I thought that it was just at that point in the "twist" position that was causing it. You know on these types of light with the twist tail or head , that position you can find by playing with it and twisting really slow that it seems to flicker back and forth between high and low ? Yea......not it!!!!


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Have you tried a different battery?
Perhaps a spring stretch?


----------



## Robone

bykfixer said:


> ^^ Have you tried a different battery?
> Perhaps a spring stretch?



Tried different batteries but did not try a spring stretch. I did look in and feel it. I even visually compared the two Alphas spring length. Just a cursory type of thing. That said, I'll find out early next week (they should receive it Saturday) what the problem is.


----------



## scout24

Can someone tell me the bezel diameter of the Alpha? Maybe compared to an HDS, or a 6P? And, does anyone know where the custom engraving would go on the light? Thanks...


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> Can someone tell me the bezel diameter of the Alpha? Maybe compared to an HDS, or a 6P? And, does anyone know where the custom engraving would go on the light? Thanks...



Alpha: 
Bezel OD is 29.29mm+/-. 
Bezel threads onto a 26.90mm +/- OD opening.
Opening for light output is 17.13mm+/-.
Bezel is female and fits over a fixed on male threaded head.





Now if you want to engrave Johnothan Stephen Hickenfusse...got me.

But say you ya want to put "Steve Brown" or perhaps some initials...




These are the only flat areas on the 315 model.
The word Elzetta is smaller on the other side.




6P:
The Z head is 31.66mm OD+/-
Head threads onto a 28.49mn+/- OD opening.
Opening for light output is 24.95+/-..
I'd same for engraving it as the Alpha. A smooth area at a right angle of the logo on the body at both ends. 
Or on the Z head if you choose to. 
Bezel is male and twists into female opening.

I noted my lens has a crack on the outside edge. It's polycarbonate. So that is odd.
I figure either from over tightening the bezel or from various totrture tests. The one that comes to mind was when I repeatedly threw it at a tree under hand knife throw style, tail first until I hit the tree with the switch in just the right spot to turn it on. Since it only took about a dozen throws, my arm was holding out and the tree was looking ok I did that to turn it back off. Arm was sore for a week and the tree has wounds now. 

Or maybe it was the time my neighbor and I tossed it against his wooden shed at a human silouette target pretending to be David vs Goliath? 
He still laughs and says "dude when I tell my fishin' buddies that light never flinched they laugh and say man yall city boys are crazy"...


----------



## Grizzman

scout24 said:


> Can someone tell me the bezel diameter of the Alpha (1.134")? Maybe compared to an HDS (1.00"), or a 6P (1.246")? And, does anyone know where the custom engraving would go on the light? Thanks...



The engraving is on the opposite milled out side from the one that says Elzetta Alpha and the serial number...so one side Elzetta, Alpha, serial number, and the other side has Elzetta and engraving. The Elzetta font size is smaller on the engraved side, to make more room for the engraving.


----------



## scout24

Thank you, gents!


----------



## Skaaphaas

bykfixer said:


> I noted my lens has a crack on the outside edge. It's polycarbonate. So that is odd.


Like so?







My local agent is replacing the lens for me, mailing it to them today. 

No torture tests on mine. Must be from overtightening


----------



## JPA261

Very nice Skaaphaas!!! Thanks for doing the torture test on your light. Haha

What pocket clip are you housing for that? Raven concealment?


----------



## Skaaphaas

JPA261 said:


> Very nice Skaaphaas!!! Thanks for doing the torture test on your light. Haha
> 
> What pocket clip are you housing for that? Raven concealment?


No it's Mr Bykfixer that did the torture tests. Me, I mollycoddle my gear. 

The clip is a Raven, yes. It's not great, but it's the best I could get in sunny South Africa.


----------



## bykfixer

Skaaphaas said:


> Like so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My local agent is replacing the lens for me, mailing it to them today.
> 
> No torture tests on mine. Must be from overtightening



Yup. Same type crack.
Mine is hidden behind the bezel.

Mine was flickering so I figured torture tests would either fix it or kill it. Neither happened so it is molly-coddled like Skaaphaas's now.


----------



## JPA261

Mine had a crack too. may have been from me over tightening it after I cleaned the lens. Sent it out to Elzetta and they fixed it but surprised it cracked.


----------



## bykfixer

Heck, mine may have arrived that way new.
But I was more distracted by the flicker. lol

Since another maker I won't mention (coughPKcough) came out with an even smaller sized 1x123 with a better throw, I won't be upgrading to the new Alpha. Besides.... I like the old one just fine. 
Great back up light.


----------



## Skaaphaas

Yeah I love my Alpha. It's just one of those lights that will stay in the collection.


----------



## nmiller

My new alpha came today. Great light and great service. Tint is neutral just like I like it. There seems to be more of a hotspot than the older version.


----------



## JPA261

Yup so did mine. So far no flicker. Also got my 300 lumen EB1 and still like that one over my Alpha. Just feels right in my hand. That being said, I'll rotate them in and out for my edc.


----------



## JPA261

So, my Alpha did the flickering too. Turned on really low even though I don't have the high low tailcap, and flickered. Shut it off and did the same, but actually turned off also on its own. Turned it off and on but didn't come on. Did it again and it finally turned on. 

I swapped the batteries and it doesn't do it anymore. However, I didn't even use the light that much cause I just got it about 3 hours ago. So may have to send it back to elzetta cause can't have that do that while at work.


----------



## Lumencrazy

A huge light for a one CR123a format.


----------



## Grizzman

If it were tiny, I wouldn't be able to hold onto it. A tactical light that doesn't fit the user well is pretty much useless. 

Its diameter makes it compatible with many weapon mounts already on the market.

If you're not using it with a weapon, or mounting it on a weapon, then you're missing a fair bit of the Elzetta brilliance.


----------



## les_garten

Grizzman said:


> If it were tiny, I wouldn't be able to hold onto it. A tactical light that doesn't fit the user well is pretty much useless.
> 
> Its diameter makes it compatible with many weapon mounts already on the market.
> 
> If you're not using it with a weapon, or mounting it on a weapon, then you're missing a fair bit of the Elzetta brilliance.



Agreed, that light is brilliant for HD use on a gun. You shouldn't need a long burn time. I'm thinkin' most gun fights will be over long before you use up your 123 Primary. I put 2 cell lights on my shotguns mainly because I got them dirt cheap because they said ZFL on them instead of Bravo, and because if I want to re-purpose at some time in the future 2 cells would be nice. But for a dedicated weapon light, those Alphas are about it IMHO.


----------



## bykfixer

Grizzman said:


> If it were tiny, I wouldn't be able to hold onto it. A tactical light that doesn't fit the user well is pretty much useless.
> 
> Its diameter makes it compatible with many weapon mounts already on the market.
> 
> If you're not using it with a weapon, or mounting it on a weapon, then you're missing a fair bit of the Elzetta brilliance.



Great pistol light.
Shines brightly about as far as a pistol is accurate.

Most folks do not realize the concept of the Alpha is for a back up light for close quarter action.


----------



## Xacto

Just pulled the trigger on my third Elzetta Alpha with the High/Low Tailcap. Still the old 315 Lumen model, hopefully without any flicker issues - customs issues for sending it back would take too much time. Strange thing - so far Elzetta hasn't mentioned the 415 Lumen upgrade on its Facebook page. So much for marketing where the customer is ;-)

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## JPA261

Anybody else notice or experience a rainbow ring just outside of the hotspot with the M60 modules? Pretty noticeable within 5-10 feet


----------



## Slumber

JPA261 said:


> Anybody else notice or experience a rainbow ring just outside of the hotspot with the M60 modules? Pretty noticeable within 5-10 feet



Yes. It's seems the Elzetta made M60's suffer from this ring more so than the old Gene Malkoff made M60's.


----------



## JPA261

Well that's weird cause my bravo one doesn't have that ring around it.


----------



## Lumencrazy

Heavy duty machined aluminum, potted electronics (a lot of epoxy). But outdated electronics and efficiency for the price


----------



## Rob Babcock

Lumencrazy said:


> Heavy duty machined aluminum, potted electronics (a lot of epoxy). But outdated electronics and efficiency for the price



I respectfully disagree. They don't have the latest and greatest nor the very highest output but those things are for duffers. Elzetta doesn't really build lights for hobbyists, there are plenty of places to get toys. Elzetta builds bulletproof tools for people that need gear they can count on. Surefire used to be that way, too. I think Elzetta is priced fairly considering the prices of the few other makers that build lights of comparable reliability and durability.


----------



## peter yetman

Were I as articulate as you, Rob. I'd have said the same thing.
P


----------



## bykfixer

Lumencrazy said:


> Heavy duty machined aluminum, potted electronics (a lot of epoxy). But outdated electronics and efficiency for the price



Tools or toys?
Pick one.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Let me hasten to add that I'm not knocking the "toys"- I also have plenty of toys! But I don't carry one of them as part of my EDC; that role is reserved for my Malkoff and Elzetta lights.


----------



## Slumber

Elzetta C132 (Charlie AVS Click) is pretty cheap right now on the jungle site. Paid $83 this AM, but it went up around $5 right after I purchased.


----------



## les_garten

Slumber Pass said:


> Elzetta C132 (Charlie AVS Click) is pretty cheap right now on the jungle site. Paid $83 this AM, but it went up around $5 right after I purchased.


What is jungle?


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Slumber Pass said:


> Elzetta C132 (Charlie AVS Click) is pretty cheap right now on the jungle site. Paid $83 this AM, but it went up around $5 right after I purchased.



Wow thanks for the heads up, ordered 2. Glad they ship to the Netherlands unlike many other sites. Probably gonna sell one for the same price I paid to someone in the EU if someones interested. To buy one of them here costs more than I just paid for 2 shipped to my doorstep included import taxes etc!


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Damn I should've just grabbed them all, as soon as I bought 2 of them price went up to $210 a piece. I just paid 210 euro's for 2 shipped to my door including import taxes :O
Should've grabbed them all and sold them on for this cheap.


----------



## les_garten

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> Damn I should've just grabbed them all, as soon as I bought 2 of them price went up to $210 a piece. I just paid 210 euro's for 2 shipped to my door including import taxes :O
> Should've grabbed them all and sold them on for this cheap.



Glad that's over...

I got 4 Elzettas and don't really need any more.

But an AVS Bravo might have been nice.


----------



## RI Chevy

Little help with the website please. Can't come up with the website.
Got it Thank you.


----------



## Slumber

RI Chevy said:


> Little help with the website please. Can't come up with the website.
> Got it Thank you.



Sorry guys. I assumed everyone knew what the "jungle" site was. Not sure if we can post non-sponsor websites other than the 'Good Deals' section.


----------



## Grizzman

That's an awesome price....buy an AVS head at a discount, and get a body and tailcap for free.

A direct link to the website may not be allowed, but I've never seen any grief given from providing the site's name.

I really need to get my notifications to work again.


----------



## kj2

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> Damn I should've just grabbed them all, as soon as I bought 2 of them price went up to $210 a piece. I just paid 210 euro's for 2 shipped to my door including import taxes :O
> Should've grabbed them all and sold them on for this cheap.



Great pick up though


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

kj2 said:


> Great pick up though



Yeah for sure  Already have an Elzetta Charlie but also have a floodlens laying around. So I think i'm gonna sell one or maybe give it away to someone who could use it and transform the other one into a flood light for indoors.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Do you still carry your Alpha often KJ? Still contemplating on getting one every time I see a good deal pass but just not sure if i'd carry it over my HDS lights. I always seem to fall back on my 325 Tactical or HCRI clicky.


----------



## kj2

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> Yeah for sure  Already have an Elzetta Charlie but also have a floodlens laying around. So I think i'm gonna sell one or maybe give it away to someone who could use it and transform the other one into a flood light for indoors.


yeah, flood lens suppose to be great for indoors. Still thinking about one for my Alpha. Keep the standard lens in my Bravo, since that one is more for personal defense purposes.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

kj2 said:


> yeah, flood lens suppose to be great for indoors. Still thinking about one for my Alpha. Keep the standard lens in my Bravo, since that one is more for personal defense purposes.



Flood lens is definitely great for indoors, probably also for things like dog walking and such. However I really like the beam profile on my Charlie, but if I have 2 I won't mind one being all flood. 
I also have a flood lens for my HDS's however I usually go back to the normal reflector because 200-300 lumens on full flood is a bit weak for my taste.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi has anyone ordered the limited edition Cu Alpha?.
ive ordered one.
can the o rings be changed on this alpha ?.
the head ain't removable still?.
i wanted to stick some blue fluorosilicone rings in.
thanks. 
Any idea and what sizes if this is possible ?


----------



## RI Chevy

I am a little leary of a copper plated light. I am holding off.


----------



## neutralwhite

Why is that ?.
thanks Chevy!.




RI Chevy said:


> I am a little leary of a copper plated light. I am holding off.


----------



## RI Chevy

Just me. I am not really a big copper guy.


----------



## RI Chevy

I am awaiting and hoping for a nice camo limited edition.


----------



## neutralwhite

Can the O rings be swapped out in an alpha ?.
if so , does anyone know the exact sizes please?.
especially the front lens one!.

thanks.


----------



## Grizzman

Yes, they are replaceable. I personally find o-rings difficult to accurately measure. O-ring kits are available for sale from Elzetta's website, and it's specified to cover any Elzetta light. If I were looking for an official size designation, I would ask Elzetta.

I've got no desire to own a copper or copper plated Elzetta.


----------



## kj2

RI Chevy said:


> Just me. I am not really a big copper guy.


Same for me. Wished they did a camo color combination, or something like that.


----------



## bykfixer

Copper aye?
That's curious. 

It'll look great on the shelf with other pretty things collecting dust. Or go into a flashlight jewelry box living the life of a poodle insteada pinscher....
No thanks.


----------



## Eric242

RI Chevy said:


> I am awaiting and hoping for a nice camo limited edition.


If it´s a digi camo I´d be in. I´m glad I could snatch a stealth grey avs bravo in 2014. That was a good looking (and performing) limited edition.

Eric


----------



## JacquesDP

I have enjoyed this thread immensely as one of the first things I have read on the forum. My first Alpha is inbound and I am quite excited to receive it! Will post back with some impressions.


----------



## Swedpat

Elzetta is attractive. I just wish that Malkoff would reintroduce the M60 dropins in an improved version with new LED(M61s are very nice but too bad throw for outdoors use in my opinion). ~150lm M60 with many hours stable output would be fine!


----------



## newbie66

Copper is attractive to some. To me I would prefer a coating like on the olight s1 baton so it won't patina. Titanium would be nice too, although cost would go up significantly...


----------



## ecmp

Any reviews of the newer Alpha with 415 max lumens?


----------



## FDP

I have one of the new Alphas inbound! Cannot wait for it to clear customs.


----------



## ecmp

FDP said:


> I have one of the new Alphas inbound! Cannot wait for it to clear customs.



It's been like forever. Is it cleared yet?


----------



## FDP

Still waiting. Some Malkoff goodies cleared in the mean time to ease the wait!


----------



## GoVegan

So after many months of deliberation and after my last post I did end up purchasing the Elzetta Alpha A111 (415 lumen model). I opted for the Rotary Tailcap as I wanted a purely tactical light that simply comes on in high mode every time without fail.
I ordered direct from their website. The shopping experience was second to none, very simple step by step process to make the order and it was at the local post office in Kentucky only hours later. Shipping from the US to Japan was very quick too with it arriving at my door 7 days later.

After 1 week of use I did decide to order the Click Tailcap (making it an A112 model), cost another 41 USD and 18.95 shipping, again taking exactly 1 week to arrive. After using both, I do prefer the Click Tailcap (as a bonus this tailcap can also be locked out by rotating 180 degrees for storage in a bag etc).

For the last 4 weeks I've carried it everyday in my front left pocket of my business casual work pants and my 5.11 pants too and although it is bigger and heavier than what I have carried for the last few years (Microstream, then Protac 1AA, then Protac 1L since for last 9 months) I have not found it uncomfortable. Before I ordered it I was a bit worried about it accidentally turning on in my pocket (as only once did it ever happen with the Protac 1AA and never with the Protac 1L) but I have not had any issues so far. The button is quite sensitive in that it only takes a few milimetres of depressing it to activate momentarily but it does have to be deliberate and clicking on takes a very deliberate press all the way down.

Build quality is fantastic, and I imagine it will last a lifetime (or for me until the next higher lumen model comes along anyway). Tint is great, neutral white, not the usual cool white that most lights have, and the beam pattern is very wide with no real hotspot and lots of spill, great for situational awareness when out at night. It doesn't throw like my Protac 1L but the wide beam is probably much better for personal security.

I would highly recommend the light to anyone who wants a no-nonsense small tactical light that you can depend on in any situation. In my opinion it would be hard to beat this light, although in saying that I still love my Protac 1L and actually pocket carried that instead for a couple of days this week.

If like I was, you are on the wall about ordering or not, go ahead I don't think you'll have any regrets.

Also as it is a tactical light I would highly recommend either the Rotary or Click Tailcap as both only come on in high, and then carry a separate small utility light too, in my case I have been carrying my Microstream (35 lumen model) in my right side pocket (along with a Fenix e01 on my keys), although I plan to upgrade to the Stylus Pro (90 lumen model).


----------



## GoVegan

One thing I forgot to mention is that with either the Rotary Tailcap or the Click Tailcap, when I press on momentary or constant, there appears to be a small jump in the light output about 1/5 of a second after coming on. I would say it comes on at about 390 lumens and then jumps up to 415 lumens a split second later and stays at that output. This has bothered me as I have not had this type of behaviour in any of my Streamlight or Fenix lights.

Can anyone confirm if they have the same behaviour with their Alpha and confirm it is just happens with the 415 lumen model or the old 315 model? It is almost not noticeable, but you can notice it if you shine it at a wall say about 15 feet away. Not sure if it is a problem with mine, or more likely the design as I suspect that it takes a split second for the driver to regulate the output to a constant level. I have also confirmed it happens with both Battery Station CR123 batteries and also with Panasonic CR123 batteries, although it doesn't do it with nearly depleted batteries.


----------



## GoVegan

JPA261 said:


> Mine had a crack too. may have been from me over tightening it after I cleaned the lens. Sent it out to Elzetta and they fixed it but surprised it cracked.



I was very concerned after reading that it could have occurred after tightening the bezel too tight. However after examining mine in detail after I got it, I can see how that might occur if the optical lens is not seated correctly, as it can only sit fully seated when the small build mark lines up with the bigger slot in the plastic reflector, hard to explain but it you have a look you should see what I mean.
If seated correctly if should sit far enough back that it should never occur as the bezel doesn't seem to touch the optical lens and there is an o-ring between the two too.

Either way, it suspect it is a lot stronger than any Streamlight or even SureFire glass lens, as I have read about both makes being dropped and shattering.


----------



## GoVegan

One other thing that I would like to stress it the importance of using primary CR123s in the Alpha (or any tactical light that you depend on) as opposed to rechargeable RCR123s.

You can see the regulated output then the gradual drop as the battery is depleated in Jim's review at:
http://flashlightguide.com/2014/07/review-elzetta-alpha-modular-flashlight/

RCR123s should not be used in the Alpha if you depend on your light. 

Even though CR123s are really expensive where I live (about 7.30 USD in a convenience store if you can find them, and about 5 USD if purchased online or from a large electronic store such as Yodobashi Camera), Im going to stick with primaries. Besides I wouldn't really trust Chinese made RCR123s in a charger or light.

But if cost of the batteries is a concern, then on this note again, Reid Henrichs (firearms instructor) makes a good point about keeping your tactical light for those times that you need it, and carrying a utility light for all other day to day purposes.

Seeing is Believing: Flashlights for Self-Defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IzVBxTpgo0


----------



## Rob Babcock

bykfixer said:


> Copper aye?
> That's curious.
> 
> It'll look great on the shelf with other pretty things collecting dust. Or go into a flashlight jewelry box living the life of a poodle insteada pinscher....
> No thanks.



You have neatly summed up my current approach to lights, knives and guns. I don't want the clutter in my life; there's a fine line between owning things and them owning you. While I can understand and appreciate why a person might collect lights, knives or guns simply to have them I don't keep anything around that's not suitable for everyday use. No safe/shelf queens for me!


----------



## FDP

Does anyone know if there are any differences between the previous and the latest Alpha models? Obviously the output is slightly more, but I was wondering about beam profile, throw, tint, etc.


----------



## FDP

So my new Alpha arrived today! Model A113. I cannot wait to get home and test it out!


----------



## bykfixer

bykfixer said:


> Copper aye?
> That's curious.
> 
> It'll look great on the shelf with other pretty things collecting dust. Or go into a flashlight jewelry box living the life of a poodle insteada pinscher....
> No thanks.



Ha! Broke down and bought one. 
My thoughts were the 'sparkle' will be easier to see in really, really, really, really low light on my bedside table vs the current charcoal black one. 




Can you see the Alpha?
Me neither





But it's there.
Idea is the copper one will be like those chrome ones in the top photo.

Will do some compares for ya FDP. My 415 lumen one is scheduled to arrive today.


----------



## peter yetman

bykfixer said:


> Ha! Broke down and bought one.
> My thoughts were the 'sparkle' will be easier to see in really, really, really, really low light on my bedside table vs the current charcoal black one.
> 
> Will do some compares for ya FDP


Ha! Any excuse for a new light.
P


----------



## FDP

Thanks. I'll also report back after darkness.....


----------



## RI Chevy

Lol. A true flashaholic at heart.


----------



## FDP

All I can say is that the 415 Alpha is awesome. My brother has the previous model and warned me that the throw might not be enough. This got me worried a bit, but I'm not sure what he is used to. 

Compared to my trusty SF E1L that I have carried as a primary EDC for the past 5 years, it is both lower on low, and higher on higher! Both settings are just great. Excellent on low for navigating the kid's room at night and lighting up my whole yard on high. The throw is sufficient for my needs. 

I'd really like to see how the throw compares to the previous model.


----------



## bykfixer

Nice addition


Here are a few side by side compares.



Pretty much the same size




Same girth too.
In the photo the opening appears larger on the 415 but it's not. 
LED dome protrudes slightly farther from the emitter. 




Tint is less white. Spot is larger.

I do not expect throw to differ very much. Maybe a bit more conical shape to the flood but rated at less than 2000cd at 31m the new one also appears to be a close quarters tactical light like its predecesor.


----------



## FDP

Thanks for the comparison!


----------



## RI Chevy

I am curious to see how they wear and last. And how they patina.
I do admit, I like the beam and tint of the 415 lumen new model better.


----------



## bykfixer

Reportedly it's a hard anodize type 3. 
I can tell ya, if it's as tough as the black coatings... it's pretty durable. Beat mine pretty good the first couple of months. No smash to pavement and stuff, but did not take it easy on the ole girl and it had zero blemishes before becoming a bedside light. 

My copper one will be treated much better though since not many were made. It'll probably live indoors and unless needed for a David vs Goliath move probably be handled less harshly than the 315.


----------



## RI Chevy

I hear ya. The black HA version is tough.


----------



## bykfixer

RI Chevy said:


> I hear ya. The black HA version is tough.



I threw it at a tree tail first until it turned on. (Underhand knife throw style). Then until it turned off.
Tree didn't like it none too much. Neither did my shoulder. The Alpha enjoyed it.

I noticed the button cover on my new one is way stiffer. Don't know if that is going to get softer in time or if Elzetta changed stiffness of the plastic. I used the 315 frequently this time last year so it may have softened over time. 
Anyway, it is not difficult to operate, but noticable.


----------



## RI Chevy

Wow. I can't come to just trying to beat up a light like that. Lol


----------



## bykfixer

Some night pix:
















Cannot say it throws any farther as seen by the garage in the distance. But does do better at lighting objects 150' away.


----------



## RI Chevy

Definitely notice the 25% increase in output. Thanks for the photos.


----------



## bykfixer

Pix don't really show it but the tint rivals Mr. Malkoffs N series. 
They dun good.


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice! The 2 tints are noticeably different to the eye?


----------



## kj2

Increase of output is visible. Damn.. now I've to order a new one[emoji14]


----------



## RI Chevy

Not sure how "modular" the Alpha is to be able to upgrade just the driver unit to the new 415 lumen output. 
Do you have to buy the entire flashlight over again?


----------



## Grizzman

Considering the increase in hot spot size, I wasn't expecting there to be any increase in visible brightness. If both of bykfixer's units are representative of typical output, the new one way well be worth getting. 

From the front, two screws are seen passing through the LED board and potting material. Different potting material (looks the same as Malkoff uses) is visible from the rear, through the battery tube. It sure doesn't appear to be user replaceable to me, and the engines aren't available for sale separately. 

For a fee, Elzetta may be willing/able to upgrade a person's light...otherwise, a new complete light would be necessary.


----------



## RI Chevy

Thats kind of what I figured. Thank you sir.


----------



## FDP

Wow, the difference in throw is very noticeable.


----------



## bykfixer

RI Chevy said:


> Nice! The 2 tints are noticeably different to the eye?



Definitely! 

I used to marvel at how 'golden' looking the old one was vs my C4 Streamlights. But the 415 model looks even more like vanilla ice cream...


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice!


----------



## RI Chevy

I got word. The Alpha cannot be upgraded. Gotta buy a new light if you want the 415 lumens. 😣


----------



## Xacto

Eric242 said:


> If it´s a digi camo I´d be in. I´m glad I could snatch a stealth grey avs bravo in 2014. That was a good looking (and performing) limited edition.
> Eric


I second that. 
Received another Elzetta Bravo with the Malkoff flood dropin the other day (Amazon offer). I compared it with the one I EDC and was surprised to find quite a difference in brightness and irregularities in the flood type hotspot (see Picture - the "old" one on the left, the new one on the right)





Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## RI Chevy

Were both batteries in both lights equal?


----------



## mckeand13

Is the 415 more efficient than the 315 or just draining batteries faster?


----------



## RI Chevy

Suppossedly brighter and more efficient. Longer run time than the original Alpha.


----------



## Xacto

RI Chevy said:


> Were both batteries in both lights equal?



I cross changed the battery sets with no real difference between the results. No difference when substituting the tailcap with a paperclip. I assume that the difference is somewhere in the Malkoff drop-in, but since it came with the Elzetta,, I posted it in this thread.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## RI Chevy

OK. Cool. I only mentioned batteries to cross off that potential difference. I have an engraved M60 that is really nice.


----------



## Grizzman

I've owned a coupe cool M60Fs and currently have an M60WF. None of them generated beams looking anything like Xacto's right one.

If the new higher output Alpha gives longer run time than the old version, then I'll definitely be on the lookout for one.


----------



## FDP

The more I use my 415 Alpha, the more I like it. The problem now is I can see it will want to replace a number of my other lights.


----------



## RI Chevy

Any long term reports with anyone using the Yellow Alphas? How is the coating holding up?


----------



## mckeand13

I sent an email to Elzetta asking if it's possible to upgrade the 315 Alpha. No reply yet. Maybe I'll give em a call Monday.


----------



## mckeand13

Can somebody with a 415 pull their bezel and optic and report back which LED is in there? Just wondering if it's still an XP-G2.


----------



## RI Chevy

mckeand13 said:


> I sent an email to Elzetta asking if it's possible to upgrade the 315 Alpha. No reply yet. Maybe I'll give em a call Monday.


Already did that. Lol. Alpha cannot be upgraded. Not modular. Gotta buy a whole new light.


----------



## Grizzman

mckeand13 said:


> I sent an email to Elzetta asking if it's possible to upgrade the 315 Alpha. No reply yet. Maybe I'll give em a call Monday.




This quote answers your initial question.


RI Chevy said:


> I got word. The Alpha cannot be upgraded. Gotta buy a new light if you want the 415 lumens. 






mckeand13 said:


> Can somebody with a 415 pull their bezel and optic and report back which LED is in there? Just wondering if it's still an XP-G2.



At 415 lumens, I'd be a bit surprised if it's an XP-G2, being fed by a single CR123. I'd like to know a rough tailcap amperage reading from the 415 lumen version.


----------



## RI Chevy

Probably an XPL


----------



## mckeand13

RI Chevy said:


> Probably an XPL



Thats an easy swap then.


----------



## RI Chevy

I am not positive, just my guess.


----------



## Sofastreamer

Which malkoff Drop Inns will be kompatible with the Bravo? M61 as well? Is there any Drop in with warmer gibt and possibly high cri?


----------



## RI Chevy

The Bravo with the AVS head is a sealed unit, not compatible with Malkoff dropins. If you have an older Bravo with the ZF head, any M60/ M61 variant will work. Just be sure to buy the lens and gaskets to go with it. Just pick your favorite tint and install it.


----------



## Grizzman

Sofastreamer said:


> Is there any Drop in with warmer gibt and possibly high cri?



The current'y available M61W is a warm 3000K and the M61N is a neutral 4000K. These can be purchased directly from Malkoff Devices. 

The M61 219, with 4500K Nichia high-CRI emitter has been sold with both A and B emitter versions over the last few years. The current offering is the ~4000K M61 219B V2. These are only available from illumn.com, or on the used market.

Even if your Bravo has the AVS head, the bezels for M61s can still be purchased from Elzetta.


----------



## mckeand13

Still waiting for someone to open up there 415 Alpha and report back as to which emitter is in there.......

:naughty:

I've got some 4000K XP-L 80 CRI HD's on the way for a transplant.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Does anyone know a good maker for a rail mounted tape switch holder? I emailed Elzetta but going on a couple weeks it's just radio silence.


----------



## Grizzman

For Picatinny, M-Lok, or KeyMod?

I've had a couple Tango Down Picatinny panels for years, and they've worked well. They're listed as compatible with Surefire and Insight. Elzetta's statement of, " An built-in zip-tie slot allows for simple installation (slot may be clipped off for use in commercially available holders such as those manufactured by Magpul, Tango Down, Ergo, and others).", leads me to believe Elzetta's switches are the same size as others.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Grizzman said:


> For Picatinny, M-Lok, or KeyMod?
> 
> I've had a couple Tango Down Picatinny panels for years, and they've worked well. They're listed as compatible with Surefire and Insight. Elzetta's statement of, " An built-in zip-tie slot allows for simple installation (slot may be clipped off for use in commercially available holders such as those manufactured by Magpul, Tango Down, Ergo, and others).", leads me to believe Elzetta's switches are the same size as others.



The way I read their site also leads me to think their tape switches must be the same/similar in size and shape to those others. I want a mount to use on the top rail of an AR to keep the switch at the 12:00 o'clock position. I really don't want to use a zip tie or any other kludge, I want a neat install that won't get in the way. Right now I use an Inforce WML which is almost perfect functionally, but in no way is it the equal to an Elzetta in build quality.


----------



## GoVegan

GoVegan said:


> One thing I forgot to mention is that with either the Rotary Tailcap or the Click Tailcap, when I press on momentary or constant, there appears to be a small jump in the light output about 1/5 of a second after coming on. I would say it comes on at about 390 lumens and then jumps up to 415 lumens a split second later and stays at that output. This has bothered me as I have not had this type of behaviour in any of my Streamlight or Fenix lights.
> 
> Can anyone confirm if they have the same behaviour with their Alpha and confirm it is just happens with the 415 lumen model or the old 315 model? It is almost not noticeable, but you can notice it if you shine it at a wall say about 15 feet away. Not sure if it is a problem with mine, or more likely the design as I suspect that it takes a split second for the driver to regulate the output to a constant level. I have also confirmed it happens with both Battery Station CR123 batteries and also with Panasonic CR123 batteries, although it doesn't do it with nearly depleted batteries.



I guess it was hard to tell about that 'jump' a split second after turning the light on, as after further testing I determined that it wasn't a jump up but in fact a drop down. I confirmed it by holding the light parallel to a flat white surface were the beam pattern and drop can be seen more clearly.

So again the issue is (occurs with both my Rotary Tailcap and my Click Tailcap), when I press on momentary or constant, there is a small drop in the light output about 1/4 of a second after coming on. I would say it comes on at about 415 lumens and then drops down to 390 lumens a split second later and stays at that output (of course it could also be coming on at about 450 then dropping down to 415 a split second later as I have no way of measuring the output and even if I did I believe the equipment wouldn't be about to detect such a change in output so soon after turning on). I have not had this type of behaviour in any of my Streamlight or Fenix lights, and double checked all my lights to confirm this. Again I confirmed it happens with both Battery Station CR123 batteries and also with Panasonic CR123 batteries, although it doesn't do it with nearly depleted batteries.

Another easier way of seeing the drop in output is if I shine the light in one corner of the room, and look the opposite direction, it is much more noticeable.

Anyone with the same issue?
I'm thinking of having the manufacturer look at it or maybe even purchase another one to test and then have a spare, only I know I won't be happy if I have two lights like this as personally I find it very distracting when I use the light (my eyes are also very sensitive to PWM and old CRT monitor Hz too with 60 or even 72 being too low, and 75 being the minimum I could work on).


----------



## GoVegan

Elzetta is now selling the Thyrm Switchback and Cell Vault too.

https://www.elzetta.com/product/thyrm-switchback/
https://www.elzetta.com/product/cell-vault/


----------



## vadimax

Is there any sense to ask about Elzetta CRI values?


----------



## Kamerat

Ordered the Alpha a few days ago - there is still 6824 km between me and the lamp... this will be my biggest buy this year I guess (Malkoff might change that).

Anyone finding the diffused lens useful? I ordered the normal lens, just wondering if I also need the diffused. Ive got both for my bored AVS Bravo and im only using the normal one.


----------



## bykfixer

The Alpha has less throw than the Bravo. Now the 415 version does throw better than the 315 model though.
So unless you just want pure flood you'll be fine with the regular lens.


----------



## Grizzman

An Alpha with the standard optic delivers roughly 350 more lux at 1 meter than a Bravo with AVS flood optic. I have a flood optic for the Alpha, but besides testing purposes, I haven't used it. If I pick up a new higher output Alpha, the old Alpha may end up with the flood optic, living a comfortable life in my range bag.

Based on an Alpha's output from a Li-Ion, the new Alpha should approximately double the lux on target compared to a Bravo with flood AVS.


----------



## Kamerat

Thank you byfixer and Grizzman! I'll stick with the regular lens. 

My ordered Alpha is now only 6676 km away from me - 150 km closer than yesterday!


----------



## bykfixer

Kamerat said:


> Thank you byfixer and Grizzman! I'll stick with the regular lens.
> 
> My ordered Alpha is now only 6676 km away from me - 150 km closer than yesterday!



Ugh! I'm getting fretted watching the progress... can't imagine your anticipation...
hell in the pony express days here in the US they'd get more than that far in a day...
You guys have the Cuban bicycle postal service or something? Are they walking it on a mules back? At this rate it'll arrive sometime after Christmas.
Sheesh... you're killing me here. lol

Nah, seriously I hope you get it soon.


----------



## Kamerat

The light took a week to travel from Kentucky to Chicago. Then, a few hours from Chicago to Cologne in Germany. The light is still 190 km away - and Belgian mail service is not to be trustef, but all is looking sweet at the moment.


----------



## vadimax

mckeand13 said:


> Still waiting for someone to open up there 415 Alpha and report back as to which emitter is in there.......
> 
> :naughty:
> 
> I've got some 4000K XP-L 80 CRI HD's on the way for a transplant.



I guess it will spoil the beam profile.


----------



## ecmp

What are the experiences on Alpha's crenellated bezel? Do these affect the beam in any way? Like a shadow for instance? How forgiving are they on pocket wear and tear? What are the methods of carry?


----------



## kj2

The bezel on my Alpha, doesn't really affect the beam. The teeth are aggressive and will tear pockets and pants. They're sharper than the strike bezel on my Bravo.


----------



## Grizzman

My Alpha currently has a Mini-CQB bezel on it. It's considerably less aggressive than the crenelated bezel, while still letting light out if placed bezel down while turned on.

I used the crenelated bezel clipped into my left front for about a year, but far from in an EDC role. I have yet to have a pocket seriously chewed up by a Bravo or Alpha.


----------



## ecmp

Thank you!


----------



## RI Chevy

I have the smooth bezel on my Alpha and really like it.


----------



## mckeand13

ecmp said:


> What are the experiences on Alpha's crenellated bezel? Do these affect the beam in any way? Like a shadow for instance? How forgiving are they on pocket wear and tear? What are the methods of carry?



The Alpha crenellated bezel is NOT pocket friendly and will shred your pants. 

The CQB is a subdued version of the crenellations and would, along with the smooth bezel, be a better pocket carry option.


----------



## bykfixer

RI Chevy said:


> I have the smooth bezel on my Alpha and really like it.



Same here. No crenalated on my mini-mags either.

Only crenalated bezels I like are on PK lights. You oughta wear gloves when removing it, and you'll need a band aid if you don't.


----------



## RI Chevy

Lol. True dat.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi, the springs in the bravo are Carbon Steel right ?
these offer high resistance than copper?.
good or bad? Makes a difference ?.
thanks.


----------



## JacquesDP

I have a 315 lumen Alpha, as well as a newer 415 lumen model. The tint on the newer one is extremely warm, almost to the point of being bright yellow. Is this normal? When comparing the 315 to other flashlights the tint is already warm, but the 415 is 10x warmer. 

Also, a strange thing has happened on the 315 model. Recently the beam pattern has started printing the square shape of the LED. The whole beam is square instead of round, and it was definitely not like this earlier on. Any ideas to what may be causing it?


----------



## neutralwhite

My 415 cu was way yellow too, sold it on.



JacquesDP said:


> I have a 315 lumen Alpha, as well as a newer 415 lumen model. The tint on the newer one is extremely warm, almost to the point of being bright yellow. Is this normal? When comparing the 315 to other flashlights the tint is already warm, but the 415 is 10x warmer.
> 
> Also, a strange thing has happened on the 315 model. Recently the beam pattern has started printing the square shape of the LED. The whole beam is square instead of round, and it was definitely not like this earlier on. Any ideas to what may be causing it?


----------



## vadimax

Ordered B333. Love it even before it has been delivered. I guess this is *definitely* not normal.


----------



## RI Chevy

@JacquesDP

Are you holding it up close to a wall when you see the square beam profile? Or just through regular usage?


----------



## JacquesDP

RI Chevy said:


> @JacquesDP
> 
> Are you holding it up close to a wall when you see the square beam profile? Or just through regular usage?



Both! I know it's normal for the Alpha TIR to show a square when you hold it up close to a wall - this is how my light was as well. However, lately the beam is square regardless of how far from a surface I am shining the light. Even outside against a large wall or shining on the grass clearly shows a square beam shape.


----------



## RI Chevy

Wow. Weird. I will check mine later and report back.

I just checked my Alpha 315. The beam is completely round, and that goes for both spot and spill. 
I would send Elzetta an email and a photo of the beam asking about the issue and see what they say.


----------



## JacquesDP

RI Chevy said:


> Wow. Weird. I will check mine later and report back.
> 
> I just checked my Alpha 315. The beam is completely round, and that goes for both spot and spill.
> I would send Elzetta an email and a photo of the beam asking about the issue and see what they say.



Thank you very much for checking! I will definitely shoot them an e-mail and see what my options are.


----------



## bykfixer

It seems Elzetta was aiming more at the casual user with the 415 lumen upgrade. An untapped crowd for Elzetta. 
Much warmer tint and a better combo beam for general uses. Still a great backup though. 

The 315 model was seemingly aimed at the user who kicks in doors and needed a bunch of bright white light at 10m or less without it lighting up the user. It was hovering on the verge of neutral tint though. 

Now the square beam is not normal. Sounds like something moved. Especially since it sounds like it hasn't always been that way. Definitely contact Elzetta. It may take a few days to hear back though. They are a small and busy staff there.


----------



## JacquesDP

Thank you very much for the info! Your explanation makes perfect sense to me. I was out this evening again and think I may have spoken too soon on the 415 model. My room has light yellow paint on the walls which amplify the warm tint. Outside the tint is lovely and gives me colour definition above and beyond any other flashlight I have. I am happy with the tint and find it a great option to have. 

The tint on the 315 is definitely cooler in comparison! I believe something did move inside and is causing the square beam pattern. I am sure they will sort me out in no time!


----------



## RI Chevy

[emoji106]


----------



## Slumber

JacquesDP said:


> I believe something did move inside and is causing the square beam pattern. I am sure they will sort me out in no time!



Have you recently removed the bezel? I remember some guys over torqued the bezel and cracked the optic a while back. A cracked optic could definitely change the beam profile.


----------



## knotgoofy

I'm surely lovin' that matte black finish!


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi- would Anyone know the exact sizes of all the bravo ZFL M60 O Rings please?.
i know there's like an orange one where it sometimes rests on the M60 drop in.

I'm trying to order some mil spec ones black or blue, and stick a Prometheus Ti clip on it.
i need the O ring size for that bit too I'm sure.
once I know I'll try order from Oveready or the o ring store Idaho.

if anyone could help.
ive also contacted Elzetta.

thanks well in advance.


----------



## JacquesDP

Slumber Pass said:


> Have you recently removed the bezel? I remember some guys over torqued the bezel and cracked the optic a while back. A cracked optic could definitely change the beam profile.


I have unscrewed my bezel, but I always take extra care not to overtighten it. I would say that my bezel has always been left a little loose. 

Although the optic has striations in it, it has always looked like that. I don't see any visible cracks.


----------



## kj2

Just ordered the Alpha 114. Should be the new 415 version, so can compare against my 315 high/low version.


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool. [emoji106]


----------



## ecmp

kj2 said:


> Just ordered the Alpha 114. Should be the new 415 version, so can compare against my 315 high/low version.



Awesome!


----------



## neutralwhite

O ring sizes for bravo help.
What do these sizes relate to on the light please?.
Thanks. 

O ring store has two out of the three below, 019, and 018 if that's right.
where on the light are these rings at ?.

Oveready tells me they have black spec mil type o rings, but only for the body.
would this 019, 018 blue fluorosilicone be for the body too or 019 for Malkoff drop in ?
so o ring store don't have lens o ring size right?.


What's best to do for mil spec?.


0.103W X 1.125" OD 
0.070W X 0.875OD X 0.75" ID
20mmOD X 16mm ID


----------



## Grizzman

I bought my spare Elzetta o-rings from.......Elzetta. 

They offer a full kit that includes, "....every o-ring needed for any Elzetta Light (plus extras).", for $2.95 (plus shipping).

.....30 seconds of shopping....done.

If their overseas shipping price is unreasonable for such a small package, a regular participant of this thread may be willing to help you out.


----------



## Grizzman

Well, it seems those wanting 18650 support from Elzetta have received it.

The name is questionable, but the idea of a bargain basement priced Bravo/AVS-like light is solid. If I didn't already have an plethora of Elzettas, I'd likely consider one.

It's very likely that it will accept a high/low tailcap (or the internal components, so it matches the gray body).


----------



## Dave D

Grizzman said:


> Well, it seems those wanting 18650 support from Elzetta have received it.
> 
> The name is questionable, but the idea of a bargain basement priced Bravo/AVS-like light is solid. If I didn't already have an plethora of Elzettas, I'd likely order one.
> 
> It's very likely that it will accept a high/low tailcap (or the internal components, so it matches the gray body).



The Oveready bored Elzetta's weren't compatible with the High/Low tailcap so it would probably have to be redesigned to be compatible with the Bone.


----------



## Grizzman

I have a few Oveready bored Bravos and Charlies. High/Low tailcaps work great with all of them.


----------



## RI Chevy

I think it was the twisty tail cap that didn't work with the bored Elzetta lights. 

It is called Bones light. It kind of has that "made in china" look with the knurling and the finish. They did a good job of discouraging one from buying it with the description. 

I have been using the Bravo, un-bored, with Sanyo 16650 cells. They work great for around the house.


----------



## Dave D

Grizzman said:


> I have a few Oveready bored Bravos and Charlies. High/Low tailcaps work great with all of them.



I'll take your word for that, I was just going by this from the Oveready site 'Rotary tailcaps are not compatible with bored Elzetta bodies'.

I thought that you had to rotate the High/Low tailcap to switch between modes, that's the only thing that's been putting me off buying a bored Charlie, there goes the bank balance again!!


----------



## mckeand13

RI Chevy said:


> Wow. Weird. I will check mine later and report back.
> 
> I just checked my Alpha 315. The beam is completely round, and that goes for both spot and spill.
> I would send Elzetta an email and a photo of the beam asking about the issue and see what they say.



My 315 is nice and square also. Sent it back to Elzetta right after I received it, asking them to fix or replace it.

They sent me an email stating "[FONT=&quot]The unit has been thoroughly tested and meets all factory specifications." and asked if I wanted it returned or refunded.

Wow, that's great customer service! Elzetta will get no more of my money. There are too many other makers out there that actually care.
[/FONT]


----------



## mckeand13

That "Bones" light looks sort of cheesy. Very cheap looking for some reason.


----------



## bykfixer

RI Chevy said:


> I think it was the twisty tail cap that didn't work with the bored Elzetta lights.
> 
> It is called Bones light. It kind of has that "made in china" look with the knurling and the finish. They did a good job of discouraging one from buying it with the description.
> 
> I have been using the Bravo, un-bored, with Sanyo 16650 cells. They work great for around the house.



My first thought was it was designed to end up a super simple flashlight like used to be pretty common in the incan days, yet is rare anymore. 

My guess would be it is an all new platform like what Mag did with the super sized mini mags as in nothing previous fit the LED version. But who knows, the high/low stuff may work, or possibly be retrofitted into it by a few modders. 

Don't know that I will own one, (may buy one in 017) but I definitely like it. Should be a good seller for them.
(Edit: free t-shirt 'til 10/31? I'm in)


----------



## Rob Babcock

Just checked it out at their website. It does look surprisingly cheesy, especially the corny "bones" logo. Really amateurish looking but I'm sure the light itself it terrific. It doesn't offer much of a savings over the Bravo AVS with clicky though.


----------



## tab665

since its already big enough for 18650's i wonder if you could use 2 X 18350's to get the higher output.


----------



## Grizzman

I also considered it much more financially appealing before I realized it only has a Click switch. The High/Low tailcap is not an inexpensive item.

I just noticed the photo zoom button. It does have checkering, but the Bravo and Charlie checkering is quite fine, with most purchase enhancement afforded by the grooves....that the Bones lacks. While it's only an aesthetic aspect, the milling operation for the flats extending into the head and rear body section doesn't seem up to their design standards.

.....but it likely still has the awesome AVS beam profile and durability. I'm very glad it's in addition to the Bravo, not in place of it.


----------



## dc38

mckeand13 said:


> My 315 is nice and square also. Sent it back to Elzetta right after I received it, asking them to fix or replace it.
> 
> They sent me an email stating "[FONT=&quot]The unit has been thoroughly tested and meets all factory specifications." and asked if I wanted it returned or refunded.
> 
> Wow, that's great customer service! Elzetta will get no more of my money. There are too many other makers out there that actually care.
> [/FONT]



Are you sure about that last part? It sounds like they are offering you what is available at the moment...maybe you could ask them to give you a free upgrade to the bravo for the headache?


----------



## tab665

i dunno, offering a refund seems like good customer service to me


----------



## RI Chevy

tab665 said:


> since its already big enough for 18650's i wonder if you could use 2 X 18350's to get the higher output.


Not sure what the voltage requirements are. But you would have 8.4v's of input voltage. I would check with them first. If not, poooof. Lol


----------



## JacquesDP

dc38 said:


> Are you sure about that last part? It sounds like they are offering you what is available at the moment...maybe you could ask them to give you a free upgrade to the bravo for the headache?


I agree! Excellent customer service who offers you a choice and communicates with you. There are countless other light companies who will never respond, or you have to send the light to China, or they will tell you to buy a new one.


----------



## Simonxm

Elzetta is more of a tactical flashlight look. Are there AA, AAA or easy carry rechargeable battery models?


----------



## kj2

Simonxm said:


> Elzetta is more of a tactical flashlight look. Are there AA, AAA or easy carry rechargeable battery models?


No(t yet)


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks for the Bones thread KJ

The site shows the AVS flooder lens as an option if that means anything to anybody. C'mon Wednesday!!!


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

I don't know what to think about this light. The 18650 option is nice, but why not make it available on the normal Bravo and Charlie models? 
I'm sure the quality will be great, but the looks are not doing it for me, looks kinda.... cheap. Maybe it will grow on me or you have to see and feel it in person. 
For me i'll stick to the normal line-up, all I need now is an Alpha to complete the series


----------



## kj2

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> ... all I need now is an Alpha to complete the series


Well, we have an Elzetta dealer in the Netherlands now


----------



## peter yetman

Can you give me link please, KJ?
Maybe they ship to the UK.
Thanks.
P


----------



## kj2

PM send


----------



## neutralwhite

Send me a pm too with that dealer please .
thanks KJ.



kj2 said:


> PM send


----------



## kj2

neutralwhite said:


> Send me a pm too with that dealer please .
> thanks KJ.


You got mail


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

kj2 said:


> You got mail



I've tried finding it but can't figure it out, please pm me too


----------



## Eric242

Man, just google Elzetta and Netherlands and it will lead you to knivesandtools.nl 
But it´s only for people within the EU who have to face customs and VAT for sure. It´s a bit pricey for the rest of the world.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Eric242 said:


> Man, just google Elzetta and Netherlands and it will lead you to knivesandtools.nl
> But it´s only for people within the EU who have to face customs and VAT for sure. It´s a bit pricey for the rest of the world.



I know about kniveandtools, I buy there frequently. I hoped for a new dealer that maybe would be slightly cheaper.


----------



## vadimax

Eric242 said:


> Man, just google Elzetta and Netherlands and it will lead you to knivesandtools.nl
> But it´s only for people within the EU who have to face customs and VAT for sure. It´s a bit pricey for the rest of the world.



You've got some special google. For me google returned links to amazon only.

And thank you for the link.


----------



## vadimax

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> I know about kniveandtools, I buy there frequently. I hoped for a new dealer that maybe would be slightly cheaper.



Well, I guess it is nearly impossible. N&T price exactly corresponds to Elzetta price in US + shipment price + 21% EU (DIE, EU, DIE!!!) import tax + some reseller's margin. And reseller's margin is twice less than that crap EU snatches for doing nothing.

I already tried to order at Amazon.com a B333 Elzetta for roughly $208. Total order value was €255.15. And I've received garbage (see "Elzetta Bravo AVS question"). Had to send it back.

P.S.: WTF?! They don't ship to Lithuania...


----------



## kj2

Knivesandtools only ships to NL, DE, BE, UK and France.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi I have the bravo with the normal m60 but if I want flood do I need to buy the complete m60f drop in?.


----------



## Slumber

neutralwhite said:


> Hi I have the bravo with the normal m60 but if I want flood do I need to buy the complete m60f drop in?.



Yes. The lenses on the M60's aren't meant to be user replaceable.


----------



## Kamerat

I've searched for traffic wand/diffuser to fit the Alpha and found nothing (both among my 6 traffic wands/diffusers and online.) help needed  

I like having them in my car and backpack when going camping. Perfect for signaling!


----------



## kj2

Just received my second Alpha, with High/Strobe tailcap. It does look like the Strobe doesn't run on 100% when activated. More people noticed this?


----------



## JPA261

kj2 said:


> Just received my second Alpha, with High/Strobe tailcap. It does look like the Strobe doesn't run on 100% when activated. More people noticed this?



I noticed it with the alpha


----------



## RI Chevy

Alpha tailcaps are different than the Bravo/Charlie tailcaps. Different resistor.


----------



## kj2

Did notice my new 415 Alpha is way more green, than my first one. That one has more of a pink/rozy colour.


----------



## JacquesDP

I am very disappointed in Elzetta. I have sent them three e-mails over the space of two months, and none of them were answered. 

Keep in mind that on their website they claim to have the best customer service because they put the customer first. 

Pathetic service. Gene Malkoff personally responds to my e-mail within 24 hours, and they are a busy small company as well.


----------



## vadimax

JacquesDP said:


> I am very disappointed in Elzetta. I have sent them three e-mails over the space of two months, and none of them were answered.
> 
> Keep in mind that on their website they claim to have the best customer service because they put the customer first.
> 
> Pathetic service. Gene Malkoff personally responds to my e-mail within 24 hours, and they are a busy small company as well.



Reminds me my own experience. As far as I know, not responding to e-mails is a first sign that some business is spiraling down: if customers with their money are not your top priority -- then what the hell so important are you doing?! I hope this is not the case with Elzetta.


----------



## kj2

Well I send a tweet to them on Friday, and received a tweet back on Monday. Apparently it's normal that the Strobe on the Alpha doesn't run at full brightness. According to Elzetta it would draw to much Amp from the battery if Strobe was at full power.


----------



## RI Chevy

If the Email isn't working give them a call.


----------



## scout24

RI Chevy- Sage advice...


----------



## JacquesDP

RI Chevy said:


> If the Email isn't working give them a call.



I understand that calling them will work, but it is a bit difficult for someone out of country. Cost and time difference is huge.


----------



## RI Chevy

OK. Didn't realize you were not from the USA. Sorry


----------



## JacquesDP

RI Chevy said:


> OK. Didn't realize you were not from the USA. Sorry


No problem! Thanks for your help


----------



## vadimax

JacquesDP said:


> No problem! Thanks for your help



Sorry, where do you come from? There is a good representative in Germany (BTW, advised by Elzetta) -- Stormtec. Their web page is... (I failed to find Elzetta there ), but Felix Thurner [thurner<at>stormtec-pro.com] looks like the right guy to get in touch with.


----------



## JacquesDP

vadimax said:


> Sorry, where do you come from? There is a good representative in Germany (BTW, advised by Elzetta) -- Stormtec. Their web page is crap, but Felix Thurner [thurner<at>stormtec-pro.com] looks like the right guy to get in touch with.


I am from South Africa! Thank you kindly, will drop him a mail and see what happens.


----------



## vadimax

JacquesDP said:


> I am from South Africa! Thank you kindly, will drop him a mail and see what happens.



Oops  I am not sure if they may re-export, but inside EU we have to pay additional 21% import tax.


----------



## Battlestar

Hi CPFs

I'm just new when it comes to FL world. I'm about to order my first flash light soon. Can you kindly help me if these are the perfect match in terms of compatibility? Thank you in advance!

Host > 2 Cell Custom 18650 Host from Oveready
Drop-Ins > M61NL to fit surefire and malkoff from Malkoff Devices

Also, under Oveready site, there's an option for Lens/Window. Should I chose the M61/M91 Lens Kit instead of M60?


----------



## GoVegan

JacquesDP said:


> I am very disappointed in Elzetta. I have sent them three e-mails over the space of two months, and none of them were answered.
> 
> Keep in mind that on their website they claim to have the best customer service because they put the customer first.
> 
> Pathetic service. Gene Malkoff personally responds to my e-mail within 24 hours, and they are a busy small company as well.




Yep, Elzetta support seems to be non-existent. My Elzetta Alpha flickers (just once after turning on with any tailcap) and they have totally ignored mail emails for an RMA.
I emailed them on Oct 20th and 28th, no reply still.
I think it's pointless making "The Toughest Flashlights on the Planet" if you have the worst customer support on the planet.

I'm very disappointed as I really wanted to like the Alpha, and was considering a Bravo too.
Ironically Dave always says how bad the Chinese manufacturers are, but every time I have emailed Fenix with a question they have replied to me within a couple of hours.


----------



## Grizzman

Battlestar said:


> Hi CPFs
> 
> I'm just new when it comes to FL world. I'm about to order my first flash light soon. Can you kindly help me if these are the perfect match in terms of compatibility? Thank you in advance!
> 
> Host > 2 Cell Custom 18650 Host from Oveready
> Drop-Ins > M61NL to fit surefire and malkoff from Malkoff Devices
> 
> Also, under Oveready site, there's an option for Lens/Window. Should I chose the M61/M91 Lens Kit instead of M60?



The idea of perfect will depend on how much output and run time you'd like to achieve. If maximum output isn't needed, then the M61NL is a very good choice. The output only appears slightly less than the M61N, while run time is greatly increased. Yes, you will need the M61/M91 Lens Kit to use an M61 with an Elzetta host. The M60 has an integrated optic that seals against the front of the head.



GoVegan said:


> Yep, Elzetta support seems to be non-existent. My Elzetta Alpha flickers (just once after turning on with any tailcap) and they have totally ignored mail emails for an RMA.
> I emailed them on Oct 20th and 28th, no reply still.
> I think it's pointless making "The Toughest Flashlights on the Planet" if you have the worst customer support on the planet.



It's been a few years, but the one time I contacted them, don't recall if it was via phone or e-mail, but I received a prompt response. If their customer service really has become as poor as recent threads indicate, then it definitely doesn't match up with the image they're trying to maintain.


----------



## RI Chevy

Guys. Maybe they are having a computer issue? Maybe an email issue? I don't know, but a call should follow up and at least give them them the benefit of the doubt. Elzetta is very good at fixing whatever issue you have with your light. They will make it right. I would say be patient. One catches more bees with honey than with vinegar. Keep an open mind.


----------



## the0dore3524

Well, my Alpha came today and I concur that the tint is a lot greener than the 315 lumen version one. I somewhat miss the rosy tint one, but I am satisfied with my purchase overall. The engraving is very well done! Also included was a hand-written "thank-you" note on the sticky sheets they always send.


----------



## the0dore3524

It seems I might have the opportunity to test out their support myself... Accidentally dropped my Alpha in the pool today and ever since it's been flickering. Upon closer inspection, I found that water leaked in through the bezel into the lens and then into the electronics. Not sure what to make of this. On my other Elzetta, I cannot remove the lens even - could this have been a manufacturing defect? Either way, so much for the waterproofing haha. Anyone else had this happen? Any suggestions?

Update: I ended up leaving it out to dry and after about an hour re-assembled it. Works fine, but there is a brief flicker when I turn on the low mode. Is this normal? Anyhow, this leaves me questioning the waterproofing...


----------



## vadimax

the0dore3524 said:


> It seems I might have the opportunity to test out their support myself... Accidentally dropped my Alpha in the pool today and ever since it's been flickering. Upon closer inspection, I found that water leaked in through the bezel into the lens and then into the electronics. Not sure what to make of this. On my other Elzetta, I cannot remove the lens even - could this have been a manufacturing defect? Either way, so much for the waterproofing haha. Anyone else had this happen? Any suggestions?


----------



## BugoutBoys

GoVegan said:


> Yep, Elzetta support seems to be non-existent. My Elzetta Alpha flickers (just once after turning on with any tailcap) and they have totally ignored mail emails for an RMA.
> I emailed them on Oct 20th and 28th, no reply still.
> I think it's pointless making "The Toughest Flashlights on the Planet" if you have the worst customer support on the planet.
> 
> I'm very disappointed as I really wanted to like the Alpha, and was considering a Bravo too.
> Ironically Dave always says how bad the Chinese manufacturers are, but every time I have emailed Fenix with a question they have replied to me within a couple of hours.


Hence why Surefire and Fenix are the best! Also have gotten great response from Nitecore


----------



## JacquesDP

RI Chevy said:


> Guys. Maybe they are having a computer issue? Maybe an email issue? I don't know, but a call should follow up and at least give them them the benefit of the doubt. Elzetta is very good at fixing whatever issue you have with your light. They will make it right. I would say be patient. One catches more bees with honey than with vinegar. Keep an open mind.


I completely understand this and always try to be reasonable. I strive to give companies the benefit of the doubt - for example I have sent them three mails and waited two months before even mentioning it on a forum. 

I have seen people bash manufacturers if they don't reply within two hours. 

Let's be realistic here - if you have e-mail, phone or staff issues as a company - fix them. How else will you stay on top of your game? Those things are basic tools, and I do believe that they would have noticed some e-mail or computer problem over a span of two months. 

It is also understandable to let one or two mails slip every now and then. We are all human. But if you market a very very specfic thing to a great extent and then fail to provide the service/product, you are going to lose business. 

So in all I don't believe I was being unreasonable. Elzetta has no interest in working with me, so I have no interest in buying their products. Not badmouthing or calling them out. Just sharing my experience and subsequent decision. 

Caveat emptor.


----------



## vadimax

I have noticed a strange symptom: the twitter. Their posts do repeat as if those posts are being made not by a human being, but a software robot that just randomly posts messages from a predefined limited set.


----------



## vadimax

Huh, guess I have found a self explanatory Elzetta's tweet:


> Buyers Tip: Don't choose product based on mfg's willingness to fix/replace failures. Find product with few failures to fix.



Any one still waiting for support?


----------



## bykfixer

I get a frown on my face when I click on this one anymore.


----------



## the0dore3524

Question: How should I be putting the o-ring at the bezel on? I did a little water test today and my light leaked again! I often remove the bezel to swap it out with my other, so I don't know if I'm putting the o-ring on right. As it is, right now, I simply put it on the little indentations on the LED module and then screw the bezel on.


----------



## dc38

the0dore3524 said:


> Question: How should I be putting the o-ring at the bezel on? I did a little water test today and my light leaked again! I often remove the bezel to swap it out with my other, so I don't know if I'm putting the o-ring on right. As it is, right now, I simply put it on the little indentations on the LED module and then screw the bezel on.



Do you have any pics? I personally dont own an elzetta alpha, but someone here may be able to help you out


----------



## Grizzman

I'm sure I've washed my Alpha under running water, but I've not immersed it under multiple feet of water. 

There are two O-rings to seal the light's bezel. One lives at the front inner surface of the bezel, within a recess and sits against the optic. The second one is at the rear of the threads. Applying a thread lubricant, like Nyogel, to these O-rings and threads is a good idea.


----------



## the0dore3524

Here are some pictures. I left the flashlight in about 2ft of water for an hour...packaging says it's waterproof to 10m so shouldn't have been a problem imho. This is the second time it's leaked, so yeah...feel like I'm putting the o-ring on wrong or something. Also don't know if the LED focuser is supposed to come out. With the o-ring I generally put it on the lense like ok the pic and then screw thebezel on.
Tried adding pics from imgur but don't know if it worked...anyways here is link:
http://imgur.com/a/RKfYg
For further reference here is a video of yesterday when water leaked into the electronics themselves:
https://youtu.be/mZtIKbYM0pE
As you can see, it was blinking like mad...everything sorted itself out after it dried if that's any consolation haha.


----------



## dc38

How about the other end at the tailcap? Any preforations in the boot? Does the low hi operate like the older elzettas, loosen for low, fully tighten for high? Also, was the light hot when it was dunked? A sudden cooling might cause a vacuum effect while in the pool, thus sucking water in through the loosest seal...


----------



## the0dore3524

dc38 said:


> How about the other end at the tailcap? Any preforations in the boot? Does the low hi operate like the older elzettas, loosen for low, fully tighten for high? Also, was the light hot when it was dunked? A sudden cooling might cause a vacuum effect while in the pool, thus sucking water in through the loosest seal...



Thanks for the response! To answer your question, the tailcap functions normally. And good catch on the vacuum effect...wouldn't have thought of that. I activated it whilst underwater and hadn't used it prior to that, though.


----------



## vadimax

The only idea that comes to my mind is that the O-ring on the lens is being deformed somehow when you screw the bezel on. What if to apply gently a bit of silicone grease to that O-ring exclusively before placing it to its position? That will help it to stay in place when you screw the bezel on.

Just a guess


----------



## kj2

There is an edge in the bezel where the o-ring fits. That way it should seal properly. I also 'stick' the o-ring with some grease in there, so it sits perfectly on the lens.


----------



## bykfixer

- Check the o-ring with a magnifier of some sort to ensure it is still completely round. 
Both the outter o-ring on the body and the one inside the bezel. 
- When time to reassemble place the bezel face down on a table, place o-ring in the o-ring channel. Give the o-ring a once over with a toothpick or something to make sure it is in the channel.
- The tricky part is if your optic falls out easily. Mine does not but I still hold my forefinger over the edge to keep it in place. 
- Bezel still face down place the light onto the bezel and tighten until beginning to feel snug. Then check it to ensure you don't see the gasket (o-ring) 

If that doesn't work either something is out of alignment such as contact between the bezel and optic, or your o-ring is square'd and not compressing (read squashing sideways to fill the void).

Should be stupid simple... but sometimes in life a stupid simple item can turn out to require a not so simple solution.


----------



## the0dore3524

vadimax said:


> The only idea that comes to my mind is that the O-ring on the lens is being deformed somehow when you screw the bezel on. What if to apply gently a bit of silicone grease to that O-ring exclusively before placing it to its position? That will help it to stay in place when you screw the bezel on.
> 
> Just a guess





kj2 said:


> There is an edge in the bezel where the o-ring fits. That way it should seal properly. I also 'stick' the o-ring with some grease in there, so it sits perfectly on the lens.





bykfixer said:


> - Check the o-ring with a magnifier of some sort to ensure it is still completely round.
> Both the outter o-ring on the body and the one inside the bezel.
> - When time to reassemble place the bezel face down on a table, place o-ring in the o-ring channel. Give the o-ring a once over with a toothpick or something to make sure it is in the channel.
> - The tricky part is if your optic falls out easily. Mine does not but I still hold my forefinger over the edge to keep it in place.
> - Bezel still face down place the light onto the bezel and tighten until beginning to feel snug. Then check it to ensure you don't see the gasket (o-ring)
> 
> If that doesn't work either something is out of alignment such as contact between the bezel and optic, or your o-ring is square'd and not compressing (read squashing sideways to fill the void).
> 
> Should be stupid simple... but sometimes in life a stupid simple item can turn out to require a not so simple solution.



Thanks all for the help; I'm sorry for bothering you guys with such a trivial issue with the o-ring  Anyways I'll try out what you guys have suggested and hopefully it'll do the trick!


----------



## RI Chevy

*To anyone who was having issues with lights who tried to email Elzetta:*

Just to give everyone a heads up. I took it upon myself to call Elzetta today. Phone number 859-707-7471. I spoke with a gentleman named Wade. I explained the issues to him regarding people stating that they were emailing Elzetta and not receiving any responses back for several months. I have no stake in this venture, just trying to help out fellow members here and giving the company a heads up. Not sure what email addresses everyone is using but his was [email protected] and the other email address that could be used is [email protected]. Wade works in the factory, and he works in the afternoons. The [email protected] goes to the office. Wade stated that he was unaware of any issues with the website or emails. I advised him that I would make a post in the thread. He was very helpful and apologized if anyone was having issues.

He stated that he would pass this information forward to his superiors to notify them of the issue. Anyone having any issues with their lights could maybe try again now that they are aware of members having issues with their lights and trying to send an email to Elzetta. 

I hope this helps in some way. Just trying to be a mediator. Once again, I have no stake in the venture here. Good luck and I hope everyone who has any issues with their lights gets them fixed so their lights work properly. 

Thank you.

RI Chevy


@JacquesDP

@GoVegan


----------



## mckeand13

Wouldn't it seem logical for ANY mfg. to check in on the forums once in a while, especially a thread dedicated to their product?

All I've ever gotten from Elzetta is a "take it or leave it" attitude when I tried asking questions and/or making suggestions.

I see Gene Malkoff here answering questions about his products, emails come back promptly, and he picks up the phone when I call. Any guess as to where my money is going? Heck, Tim Cook replies to customers about Apple products.


----------



## RI Chevy

Sorry. Like I said, I can't speak for them. I was just trying to bridge the gap here. But I hear you loud and clear.


----------



## scs

A solid reputation, once earned, needs to be maintained, not be taken for granted.
Then again, if people keep buying anyways, then who gives a damn.


----------



## vadimax

scs said:


> A solid reputation, once earned, needs to be maintained, not be taken for granted.
> Then again, if people keep buying anyways, then who gives a damn.



Exactly the same attitude was everywhere in USSR. There is no more USSR.

I could not imagine that Elzetta is ruled by communists


----------



## bykfixer

RI Chevy said:


> Sorry. Like I said, I can't speak for them. I was just tryjng to bridge the gap here. But I hear you loud and clear.



You tried anyway. 
Thank you!! 

Now,
Gene Malkoff probably sees bountiful sales from CPF.
Elzetta? Probably not. They are tailored to a market that differs from Gene. 
Part of Gene's schtick is a face forward approach. Chances are if he doesn't answer the phone himself it's either he's in the factory on the assembly line or is out somewhere awarding a first responder with one of his products based on a good deed done or perhaps voted cop of the year or something.
Gene is a jeans and t-shirt kinda guy who builds top shelf flashlights to ensure his name sakes evokes quality and value. He makes sure his custmers are satisfied personally. He intends on first responders and those who strive for the best are taken care of before, during and after the sale... for their lives may be at stake otherwise.

Now the folks at Elzetta too are a small group too, but they have a distictly different style. Their schtick is that their lights can withstand being subjected to a hand grenade blast, or dropped from a Black Hawk at a couple thousand feet behind enemy lines. They have a life or death approach that revolves around fatigue clad folks with big power rifles. They probably like when CPF folks buy from them, but like SureFire, Streamlight and a few small sure enough military spec light makers we're only a small part of their audience. Being warm and fuzzy is probably somewhere below #1 on their list of daily routines. Warriors are intense people by and large. That often gets mistaken for being uncaring. 

It is what it is. Like I said before, they _always_ get back with me within a few days. But I know they aren't sitting around waiting for my enquiries to arrive. So I make sure the title has a few words that make a very busy person go "hmmmm, let me see what this one says"....


----------



## RI Chevy

Hopefully someone will come on here from Elzetta and good will come from it.


----------



## JacquesDP

RI Chevy said:


> *To anyone who was having issues with lights who tried to email Elzetta:*
> 
> Just to give everyone a heads up. I took it upon myself to call Elzetta today. Phone number 859-707-7471. I spoke with a gentleman named Wade. I explained the issues to him regarding people stating that they were emailing Elzetta and not receiving any responses back for several months. I have no stake in this venture, just trying to help out fellow members here and giving the company a heads up. Not sure what email addresses everyone is using but his was [email protected] and the other email address that could be used is [email protected]. Wade works in the factory, and he works in the afternoons. The [email protected] goes to the office. Wade stated that he was unaware of any issues with the website or emails. I advised him that I would make a post in the thread. He was very helpful and apologized if anyone was having issues.
> 
> He stated that he would pass this information forward to his superiors to notify them of the issue. Anyone having any issues with their lights could maybe try again now that they are aware of members having issues with their lights and trying to send an email to Elzetta.
> 
> I hope this helps in some way. Just trying to be a mediator. Once again, I have no stake in the venture here. Good luck and I hope everyone who has any issues with their lights gets them fixed so their lights work properly.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> RI Chevy
> 
> 
> @JacquesDP
> 
> @GoVegan


Thank you very much for your help! I appreciate your efforts to assist us. 

Will definitely see if the above addresses work better.


----------



## Rob Babcock

It definitely seems like a defective part. With potted lights it generally doesn't matter if water gets in, everything is sealed. I've seen Elzettas disassembled and reassembled underwater on numerous occasions with no problems.


----------



## rob74

Thanks for the effort! I'll email them right away.
I'm having issues as well with my new Alpha... Flickering in low mode.

Rob


----------



## vadimax

Huh, I guess I know the recipe. I have written my minds on clear lens installation issue from @policija.lt (yes, I am a LEO). Response came next day


----------



## gravelrash

I had the flickering problem with my Alpha. I emailed them without getting a response. After a few days I called, and someone picked up immediately and asked me to send in the light. The light was in transit back to me, fixed, when I finally received a response back from them via email.

This is the great thing about these forums: as a group we now know that phone calls work better for getting help with your Elzetta.


----------



## Grizzman

vadimax said:


> Huh, I guess I know the recipe. I have written my minds on clear lens installation issue from @policija.lt (yes, I am a LEO). Response came next day



I'm not sure I followed your post. 

You contacted somebody other than Elzetta, and you learned you were installing the optic incorrectly?

or

You sent an e-mail to Elzetta from your LEO department e-mail address, and they responded. 


I will now admit that I sent an e-mail to Elzetta from my GMail account asking an Alpha low mode pulse question 6 business days ago (Nov. 23)....and have not received a response. I sent it to the [email protected] address, which is the only one I've found on their website. I've also been monitoring my spam folder to ensure I don't miss it due to filtering. My guess is that I won't be receiving one within the next week, if ever. 

It appears Elzetta is following Surefire's lead of ignoring incoming e-mails.


----------



## peter yetman

I think using the police email clinched it, but I could be wrong.
P


----------



## redvalkyrie

I just picked up one of the older Elzettas with a M60F and I am quite impressed. The light is very compact but solid.


----------



## vadimax

Personally for me AVS head is a way to go. P60 head just do not pass my aesthetical filter


----------



## Rob Babcock

The AVS head is very badass! I have one on a Bravo and one on a Charlie.


----------



## RI Chevy




----------



## vadimax

I am serious. One soviet airplane creator has told a good phrase: a properly designed airplane is beautiful. I guess the same rule applies to any device:


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice.


----------



## bykfixer

To add to post 2391...


----------



## BugoutBoys

So I'm thinking of getting the B133 and I'm wondering what the tint is like on the high output head? I'm really wanting something on the perfect white side. I don't like warm. So something like the Surefire G2X. Is that what the Elzetta has? Or is it clearly warm?


----------



## RI Chevy

Some posts back, a member compared the Alpha 1st edition and the Alpha 2nd edition. Not as warm. The Bravo's with AVS head are on the warmer side and not white.


----------



## BugoutBoys

RI Chevy said:


> Some posts back, a member compared the Alpha 1st edition and the Alpha 2nd edition. Not as warm. The Bravo's with AVS head are on the warmer side and not white.


Hmm. Does anyone know the K value?
So it's definitely not white?


----------



## RI Chevy

If your talking about the AVS head, no, not white. 
I would estimate about 4100K. More neutral.


----------



## BugoutBoys

RI Chevy said:


> If your talking about the AVS head, no, not white.
> I would estimate about 4100K. More neutral.


Ah, do you have one?


----------



## RI Chevy

Yes. I have 4 Elzettas.


----------



## BugoutBoys

RI Chevy said:


> Yes. I have 4 Elzettas.


Wow! So the AVS head is noticeably warm/yellowish tint?


----------



## RI Chevy

Warm to neutral.
Varies a little from 2 cells to 3 cells.


----------



## BugoutBoys

RI Chevy said:


> Warm to neutral.
> Varies a little from 2 cells to 3 cells.


I'm thinking of getting the 2 cell, B133


----------



## RI Chevy

It is a great light. You can get a 3 cell host down the road and use the same head. 3 cell is very powerful.


----------



## BugoutBoys

RI Chevy said:


> It is a great light. You can get a 3 cell host down the road and use the same head. 3 cell is very powerful.


That's a good idea! Do you have a Surefire G2X possibly?


----------



## RI Chevy

No. I don't. I am a Malkoff guy. lol
I like convertability in my lights.


----------



## Grizzman

As is typical with XM-L emitters behind optics, there are two distinct "tints" to the inner beam areas, and neither are what could be considered white. At an across the room distance, the center-most spot is noticeably rosy, while the larger corona has a definite yellow-ish, creamy cast to it. The dimmer outer spill area is similar to the corona. 

Once all the light is merged together by a flood optic, it's a very close rendition of a Nichia 219A.....definitely neutral.....not what I'd consider warm.

I don't recall reading reading any complaints about the AVS tint being objectionable. If you don't like it, you can easily sell it here for a little less than what you paid for it.


----------



## RI Chevy

I would classify it as a Neutral tinted light.


----------



## BugoutBoys

Grizzman said:


> As is typical with XM-L emitters behind optics, there are two distinct "tints" to the inner beam areas, and neither are what could be considered white. At an across the room distance, the center-most spot is noticeably rosy, while the larger corona has a definite yellow-ish, creamy cast to it. The dimmer outer spill area is similar to the corona.
> 
> Once all the light is merged together by a flood optic, it's a very close rendition of a Nichia 219A.....definitely neutral.....not what I'd consider warm.
> 
> I don't recall reading reading any complaints about the AVS tint being objectionable. If you don't like it, you can easily sell it here for a little less than what you paid for it.



Aw darn. I wonder how hard/easy it is to mod to a neutral/cooler emitter


----------



## RI Chevy

You could always get an older version Elzetta with an M60 dropin. They were much whiter in tint. XR-E led. A thower.


----------



## Grizzman

RI beat me to it. 

If the "color" of the light is more important than the output or beam shape, then the cool 235 lumen M60 should deliver what you want. 

Having said that, I've currently got two or three M60s. They live in 6Ps on rifles and in Pelican foam for "testing" purposes. My AVS heads are used pretty much every day, and the light that lives on the end table by my recliner.....a bored Charlie with AVS and 2-stage tailcap.


----------



## RI Chevy

Lol. 👍 😃


----------



## Grizzman

The beam shape may be completely different than what's generated by the optics-based M60 and AVS, but the cool white Malkoff M61 works well in the Bravo bezels that accept the M60. The 325 lumen M61's CCT is ~6000K, and it has an exceptional multi-purpose beam. The M61 requires a lens for the bezel, but they are readily available and inexpensive.

A Charlie with AVS may be next to my recliner, but an M61 is almost always in my front pocket (in an MD2, or a bored Bravo, or a VME head attached to an E2E, etc).


----------



## Rob Babcock

I have a two AVS heads (one on a Bravo and the other on a Charlie) as well as an Alpha. I'd say they're all pretty close to neutral. Tint will vary a it but in my samples I'd say my Alpha is the coolest tint of the three.


----------



## the0dore3524

I like the tint of the original Alpha compare to the new version's. The new one seems kind of a sickly yellow; the old one was much more rosy.


----------



## bykfixer

the0dore3524 said:


> I like the tint of the original Alpha compare to the new version's.



Wow! 
I thought I was the only one here. Not that I dislike the new tint, but the new tint seemed to be more for mass appeal than previous offerings.
Then I acquired a Bones and thought "oh I get it now". It wasn't just for mass appeal but for less squint in really dark scenarios. 
So, I use them for different tasks now. Old Alpha is a nightstand bad guy blinder/David vs Goliath tool. New Alpha is a dog walker/David vs Goliath tool.


----------



## BugoutBoys

What do you all think about the high-low tailcap? I can't decide if it is a deal breaker or not. I LOVE the switch on my SF Fury. Press for low and again within a second for high. It's so simple even with gloves on. I don't think I like the idea of having to twist for different modes.


----------



## RI Chevy

High/low tail cap is the best in my opinion. I don't care for the twisty.


----------



## dc38

The high/low twist clicky is arguably one of the better options for 2 moded lights. If you need high, leave it tightened. If you need low, loosen it. The problem with mode memory through switch actuation is that if you suddenly need high or low from off, you need to cycle through the other modes first.


----------



## bykfixer

For signaling hi/lo clickys are not effective. Hi/lo/hi/lo ends up with the signal-ee going "huh? wutthe#### are you saying?"

For everyday use I like the one hand aspect of a clicky. Many people struggle with hand held twistys using one hand.

So there are pro's n con's to either one based on your typical use.


----------



## the0dore3524

Just depends on your preference and the application, mainly. I have both myself and although I like the Fury's, it's somewhat unreliable.


----------



## RI Chevy

The H-L switch just gives you a little more versatility with the light.


----------



## BugoutBoys

RI Chevy said:


> The H-L switch just gives you a little more versatility with the light.


Yeah I guess that's true

i just bought the B133. I'm just hoping I like the tint at this point! It should be here tomorrow:wave:


----------



## vadimax

I've got B333 + AVS flood lens. After some experimenting I understood that B343 configuration is more useful for me. Adding to that I use 2x AW RCR123. They drive AVS head at 900 lm (but 4x generic CR123A for backup).

When I compared tint with other lights, Thrunite Archer 1A v3 NW was the closest match.


----------



## the0dore3524

Few questions,because I recently ordered some 16340 batteries...plz correct me if I'm wrong:

1) The Bravo cannot accommodate 16340 cells; it must be bored to do so. 
2) The Alphas will take 16340, though at reduced run times b/c of high output.
3) Will the low output on the Alpha also be higher with a 16340 cell?
Thanks


----------



## Grizzman

the0dore3524 said:


> Few questions,because I recently ordered some 16340 batteries...plz correct me if I'm wrong:
> 
> 1) The Bravo's body happily accommodates 16340 cells as it come from the factory.
> 2) The Alphas do take 16340, though at reduced run times b/c of high output.
> 3) The low output on the Alpha is slightly higher with a 16340 cell, but it would likely require a lux meter to detect it.



The above has been corrected.


----------



## RI Chevy

Your confused a little between 16340 and 18350 cells. 16340's fit fine. Host needs to be bored to fit 18350 cells.
Grizz pretty much covered it.


----------



## the0dore3524

I see; thanks guys. I just realized that the "16" and "18" references the girth of the cell haha. Why will the output be lower on low on a 16340 cell, but higher on high?


----------



## Grizzman

the0dore3524 said:


> Why will the output be lower on low on a 16340 cell, but higher on high?



Using a Li-Ion cell causes both low and high to be brighter than when the light is run from a primary CR123.


----------



## dc38

the0dore3524 said:


> I see; thanks guys. I just realized that the "16" and "18" references the girth of the cell haha. Why will the output be lower on low on a 16340 cell, but higher on high?



I believe the low was higher, lol...


----------



## vadimax

the0dore3524 said:


> I see; thanks guys. I just realized that the "16" and "18" references the girth of the cell haha. Why will the output be lower on low on a 16340 cell, but higher on high?



2x16340 cells let you run an AVS head of Bravo as if it had a 3 cell body, but with much shorter run times. But NEVER try to run a Charlie with those cells! You will fry the AVS with over voltage


----------



## the0dore3524

vadimax said:


> 2x16340 cells let you run an AVS head of Bravo as if it had a 3 cell body, but with much shorter run times. But NEVER try to run a Charlie with those cells! You will fry the AVS with over voltage



I see! Can you give me an idea of the run times? I should also be able to run the original M60 head in the Bravo with 16340, right? Will the output be increased because of the voltage or is it regulated? Sorry for being so inquisitive, don't want to blow my module haha


----------



## RI Chevy

I believe the M60 has an input voltage of 3.4 to 9 volts. When deciding on what batteries you want to use always be conscious of the drop ins input voltage.


----------



## mckeand13

vadimax said:


> 2x16340 cells let you run an AVS head of Bravo as if it had a 3 cell body, but with much shorter run times. But NEVER try to run a Charlie with those cells! You will fry the AVS with over voltage



You're missing a little detail there. It looks like you've suggested to avoid 2x16340, which would work just fine in a Charlie.

Just to clarify, running *3* x 16340 in a Charlie might not be a good idea. I've never seen the voltage range listed, likely because Elzetta is planning on 3xCR123 only.

The head is labeled as AVS (Automatic Voltage Sensing) so it determines output based on input voltage.


----------



## RI Chevy

If he had a bored 3 cell Charlie host, 2x18500 cells work well. Not sure if 2x17500 cells would fit.
Don't think there are any 16500 cells made yet for unbored hosts. I personally would not use 3 Li Ion cells in a Charlie host. BOOM!


----------



## dc38

the0dore3524 said:


> I see! Can you give me an idea of the run times? I should also be able to run the original M60 head in the Bravo with 16340, right? Will the output be increased because of the voltage or is it regulated? Sorry for being so inquisitive, don't want to blow my module haha



I have run my other m60 2 cell with 2 x 16340, it runs just about as bright as 2 x cr123a, but at somewhat reduced runtime. If the cutoff of the 16340 circuit is 2.7v, then you have about 1.5 v usable from each cell. The malkoff drops out of regulation at about 3.4v, so it just shuts off after the pcb trips on either or both cells. No gradual decline, no noticeable dimming, etc. Since you get a total of about 3v before full termination, 2 cells in series run a total of 750mAh. 

With 2x cr123A, you get 1440mAh @6v down to 3.4v with a decline afterwards, useful voltage is 2.6v. I believe the m60 is run at 700mA, so 2xcr123a *should* give it roughly 1.5-1.8 hours of regulated light, followed by a few hours of declining output below 3.4v. I have run mine dangerously low with 2xcr123a, termination per cell was .9v and 1.1v, about 1 hr 40 min on near max brightness, with about 3 hours on declining output until moonlightish output. With the 16340, i have run them till the circuit trips, 48 minutes on a pair of orbtronic 16340 at near full output until it just cuts off. No dimming, no sag, just off. These drop ins are VERY well regulated. Paired with a beastly bodied elzetta, your setup should last a while.


----------



## RI Chevy

I believe flashlightguide did some testing in one of his reports. Maybe try there. He does some nice runtime graphs as well. Very nice evaluations.


----------



## Jlui

Im tempted to get an elzetta. But that price is hard to eat.


----------



## peter yetman

Yeah, but it'll still be working when the cheaper lights have long bitten the dust.
P


----------



## vadimax

Jlui said:


> Im tempted to get an elzetta. But that price is hard to eat.



But it is damn good  For me it is even more expensive as I live in EU. And I DO have it  Yes, I do suffer mental disorder -- I am a flashaholic 

One moment should be mentioned: clear lens may suffer beam artifacts -- it is rather hard to place it perfectly centered. But the flood lens is like honey  Personally for me it produces much more valuable beam profile.


----------



## vadimax

Immediate update regarding Bravo AVS and 16340 batteries: at 3.514-3.515V both batteries the AVS driver starts to emit vibrating light (kind of strobe) -- an obvious sign to recharge that cannot be missed unless you are totally blind


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool. 👍


----------



## LightTheDark

Jlui said:


> Im tempted to get an elzetta. But that price is hard to eat.



I don't have an Elzetta yet but hope to soon. Before I knew about Elzetta, I have/had about 8 lights from one of the well known companies that imports Chinese lights and sells them for a hundred bucks. Half of them have failed for various reasons. Not only does the Elzetta seem like it will be a much wiser investment, it's not great to have a light that doesn't work when you need it.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Welcome to the site.

Wisdom galore in your first post here.

The words 'value' and 'cheap' often times become thought of as the same thing.


----------



## LightTheDark

bykfixer said:


> ^^ Welcome to the site.
> 
> Wisdom galore in your first post here.
> 
> The words 'value' and 'cheap' often times become thought of as the same thing.



Thanks, I have lurked for a while. I believe this is actually where I learned of Elzetta.


----------



## redvalkyrie

> one moment should be mentioned: clear lens may suffer beam artifacts -- it is rather hard to place it perfectly centered. But the flood lens is like honey  Personally for me it produces much more valuable beam profile.



My Elzetta came with the M60F and I can't say it's my favorite. That lens creates a psychedelic swirl of artifacts. I'm seriously considering trading it.


----------



## redvalkyrie

Also, I was going through Elzetta's website configuring a Charlie--are they still using Malkoff modules? You get the same choice of lenses.


----------



## peter yetman

I think Gene licensed the modules to them a while ago. That's why his are engraved and theirs have stickers.
P


----------



## bykfixer

LightTheDark said:


> Thanks, I have lurked for a while. I believe this is actually where I learned of Elzetta.



Famous here, but to the outside of AR15 folks and flashlight junkies... not so much.


----------



## vadimax

redvalkyrie said:


> My Elzetta came with the M60F and I can't say it's my favorite. That lens creates a psychedelic swirl of artifacts. I'm seriously considering trading it.



You might buy an AVS head with a flood lens... and I guess you will forget about trading your Elzetta  I've got one in B343 configuration and it is perfect. Absolutely uniform beam profile.

Just two samples. World map and roses:







Some bug on a ceiling:






Modularity is a way to go. If you don't like some part -- replace it


----------



## Grizzman

redvalkyrie said:


> My Elzetta came with the M60F and I can't say it's my favorite. That lens creates a psychedelic swirl of artifacts.



At what distance is the light from the wall, causing the artifacts? At a distance of 6 feet or greater, my M60WF delivers an almost artifact beam. This is while shining it directly onto a white wall. You may be different, but in use I don't shine my lights directly at plain walls from 4 feet away staring at the beam pattern. The M60F is a very specialized drop-in, unlikely to be appropriate for the vast majority of users. 

The Malkoff M61 or M61N delivers a beam shape and output that works really well for general usage. Maybe I should save time and simply quote my previous statements (in this thread) on this subject (which more often complain of the ringy beam of the M60).




redvalkyrie said:


> Also, I was going through Elzetta's website configuring a Charlie--are they still using Malkoff modules? You get the same choice of lenses.



Yes, the M60 and M60F, originally designed by Malkoff, are still available from Elzetta for the Bravo and Charlie.


----------



## redvalkyrie

> At what distance is the light from the wall, causing the artifacts? At a distance of 6 feet or greater, my M60WF delivers an almost artifact beam. This is while shining it directly onto a white wall. You may be different, but in use I don't shine my lights directly at plain walls from 4 feet away staring at the beam pattern. The M60F is a very specialized drop-in, unlikely to be appropriate for the vast majority of users.



It's at any distance but of course, improves further out.



> The Malkoff M61 or M61N delivers a beam shape and output that works really well for general usage. Maybe I should save time and simply quote my previous statements (in this thread) on this subject (which more often complain of the ringy beam of the M60).



I like the M60 and that's what is in the Elzetta now. I guess with the M60F I was expecting the even flood pattern you get with a Wildcat.


----------



## Grizzman

Your M60F must have more artifacts than most. I've had Fs for years and never noticed them until today's test.


----------



## RI Chevy

My 60F has a very nice beam.


----------



## Offgridled

Love my Elzetta


----------



## BugoutBoys

So the Bravo AVS arrived. The beam profile is disgusting. I counted 4 rings. I was expecting a beautiful smooth beam but it was terrible! The tint was also very rosy/warm. Definitely selling it sadly. I absolutely love the feel of it but for a $220 light I would want a MUCH better beam profile and tint.


----------



## Grizzman

BugoutBoys said:


> So the Bravo AVS arrived. The beam profile is disgusting. I counted 4 rings. I was expecting a beautiful smooth beam but it was terrible! The tint was also very rosy/warm. Definitely selling it sadly. I absolutely love the feel of it but for a $220 light I would want a MUCH better beam profile and tint.



Nice. I'll give ya $100 for the piece of poop.


----------



## RI Chevy

$110 lol
Seriously, are you just white wall hunting, or using it in real life?


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

$120 from me. I have the Charlie and love the beam profile. Little throwy spot so it reaches nice and far. Broad spill that reaches a nice amount, even broader spill that lights up everything nicely and not too harsh to blind you and it fades in super nice spill that touches your feet when you aim it forward. No need to blind yourself by pointing it down to see things because the spill already covers everything. I love the beam profile design. And the warm tint is lovely in my eyes, easy on the eyes and makes it easy to tell what is what exactly


----------



## Grizzman

Me+Light=Addiction's opinion matches my own. I own three AVS heads with the Spot Optic, and will up my offer to $125. 

The AVS flood optic is completely awesome also. It lives on a Charlie next to a G23 on my night stand. Turning it on is like flipping a light switch. It isn't pure flood like a traditional bare emitter mule. The optic allows it to be useful at more than across the room distances.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I'm also a big fan of the AVS units. Of course I'm not a white wall hunter, I use mine. Awesome illumination tool, but not the prettiest toy I suppose. Still to each their own. Selling an Elzetta here at CPF will be very very easy.


----------



## Offgridled

post a picture

Great light!


----------



## RI Chevy

Nice. 👍


----------



## BugoutBoys

I guess I have become a bit of a white wall hunter. If they made a cool white it would be my favorite flashlight


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Grizzman said:


> Me+Light=Addiction's opinion matches my own. I own three AVS heads with the Spot Optic, and will up my offer to $125.
> 
> The AVS flood optic is completely awesome also. It lives on a Charlie next to a G23 on my night stand. Turning it on is like flipping a light switch. It isn't pure flood like a traditional bare emitter mule. The optic allows it to be useful at more than across the room distances.



Damn you! I will up it to $130! 
Literally 2 hours ago I ordered an Alpha that was at a 25% discount because someone returned it because there was a fingerprint on the reflector, score! Like i'm gonna look at the reflector all day, pfff.
Excited for the Alpha!

And I also have the flood optic, not entirely my thing as throw is lacking just a tad too much but it's such a nice evenly spread beam. It really is AWESOME indoors!


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

BugoutBoys said:


> I guess I have become a bit of a white wall hunter. If they made a cool white it would be my favorite flashlight



It could be that you will always just prefer cool white. I understand as i've liked cool white better before aswell! And I can still appreciate a cool white very much. My 200 lumen HDS with cool white has a really nice white, still love it.
But i've really grown towards more warmer and neutral colours the more I use them. So maybe use it for a few weeks and see if it grows on you? 
If not, sell it. But don't sell it within 2 days because sometimes it just needs a bit of time  

Pretty much everything I order now is neutral or warmer.


----------



## the0dore3524

You guys can get a 315 lumen Alpha, all versions, for $99 right now...Battery Station is having a closeout sale.


----------



## Offgridled

the0dore3524 said:


> You guys can get a 315 lumen Alpha, all versions, for $99 right now...Battery Station is having a closeout sale.


That's a heads-up


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## BugoutBoys

I wonder if anyone would mod it to cool white


----------



## dc38

Darn...i hope you guys didnt beat me to the high low . Low profile one lol


----------



## BugoutBoys

I heard that the ZFL-M60 is cooler white than all the others? Is this true?


----------



## Grizzman

RI Chevy said:


> You could always get an older version Elzetta with an M60 dropin. They were much whiter in tint. XR-E led. A thower.





Grizzman said:


> RI beat me to it.
> 
> If the.........then the cool 235 lumen M60 should deliver what you want.



The M60 is around 6000K. Did you take the AVS outside last night and use it beyond 10 yards?


----------



## mckeand13

Can someone with a 415L Alpha pull their bezel and optic and let us know what emitter is in there?

Many thanks.


----------



## the0dore3524

I would, but I had to send mine in for warranty service...hope they fix it soon


----------



## grunt soldier

Are the alphas 315 lumen or 415 like elzetta says. Seems like a good light for 99 bucks


----------



## RI Chevy

The 1st Edition Alphas are 315 lumens. The newest 2nd Edition Alphas are 415 lumens. 2 separate lights.


----------



## bykfixer

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> Damn you! I will up it to $130!
> Literally 2 hours ago I ordered an Alpha that was at a 25% discount because someone returned it because there was a fingerprint on the reflector, score! Like i'm gonna look at the reflector all day, pfff.
> Excited for the Alpha!
> 
> And I also have the flood optic, not entirely my thing as throw is lacking just a tad too much but it's such a nice evenly spread beam. It really is AWESOME indoors!



Hummmmmmnulla, hummm $130....hummnulla, hummmnulla 130 130 huumnulla.... do I hear 135?...hummmnnullla 135...blulllulahumniull do I hear 135.
?... hummmmnullla.... 130 once.... 130 twice.....


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

bykfixer said:


> Hummmmmmnulla, hummm $130....hummnulla, hummmnulla 130 130 huumnulla.... do I hear 135?...hummmnnullla 135...blulllulahumniull do I hear 135.
> ?... hummmmnullla.... 130 once.... 130 twice.....



Sold for $130 to me! 

Hehe, I wish....


----------



## BugoutBoys

Grizzman said:


> The M60 is around 6000K. Did you take the AVS outside last night and use it beyond 10 yards?


Yeah it worked pretty well. I compared the beam pattern to my Fury and the hotspot is more concentrated on the AVS with the spill being much more diffused and wide. The Fury has a very defined hotspot and very defined spill, but both of them are very even. The AVS gradually fades. I can't decide which I like better of the *real world* beam patterns. The AVS definitely sees wider and more diffused. The tint is not too bad outdoors


----------



## dc38

Does anyone know if batterystation gives shipping notices?


----------



## ncgrass

I received a shipping notification when I purchased lay elastic year, dc38. Had a order confirmation via email and a shipping notification too


----------



## Hardscrabble

Last night about 6pm I attempted to install an Elzetta ZRX mount on an 870 Police I keep around to shoot squirrels with. The instructions clearly state max torque on the mounting screws is 20ft lbs. so I cranked my torque driver to 20 and promptly cracked the top part of the mount (this mount is mostly thermoplastic or something like). So I sent an immediate email 'not my fault, need a new part, what's wrong with you people, etc', expecting to hear back sometime between after January and never, with a response of 'try not to be so stupid next time'. 

Imagine my surprise when I received 2 email from them at 9am this morning (15 hours later), one saying 'sorry, respectfully, try something less than 20 next time' and the next a shipping notice indicating replacement part in route.


----------



## the0dore3524

dc38 said:


> Does anyone know if batterystation gives shipping notices?



Yep, they should.


----------



## dc38

the0dore3524 said:


> Yep, they should.





ncgrass said:


> I received a shipping notification when I purchased lay elastic year, dc38. Had a order confirmation via email and a shipping notification too



Thanks! @ncgrass, do you happen to remember how long it took after ordering to recieve the shipping confirmation? It seems that they have authorized the paypal withdrawal after my payment, so they have my money now, and Im getting antsy, lol. It has been 3 business days with nary a peep...


----------



## RI Chevy

From my dealings with them, they usually do it right away. Maybe they are backordered? I would give them a call.


----------



## dc38

RI Chevy said:


> From my dealings with them, they usually do it right away. Maybe they are backordered? I would give them a call.



Will do tomorrow. THANKS!


----------



## ncgrass

dc38 said:


> Thanks! @ncgrass, do you happen to remember how long it took after ordering to recieve the shipping confirmation? It seems that they have authorized the paypal withdrawal after my payment, so they have my money now, and Im getting antsy, lol. It has been 3 business days with nary a peep...


Looks like it was sent within 2 hours to me.


----------



## vadimax

Hardscrabble said:


> Last night about 6pm I attempted to install an Elzetta ZRX mount on an 870 Police I keep around to shoot squirrels with. The instructions clearly state max torque on the mounting screws is 20ft lbs. so I cranked my torque driver to 20 and promptly cracked the top part of the mount (this mount is mostly thermoplastic or something like). So I sent an immediate email 'not my fault, need a new part, what's wrong with you people, etc', expecting to hear back sometime between after January and never, with a response of 'try not to be so stupid next time'.
> 
> Imagine my surprise when I received 2 email from them at 9am this morning (15 hours later), one saying 'sorry, respectfully, try something less than 20 next time' and the next a shipping notice indicating replacement part in route.



20 lbs/ft?! Ain't that a typo? Philips screws start to crush at 11 lbs/ft.


----------



## Grizzman

I'm certain it was supposed to be 20 inch pounds. The standard for attaching aluminum accessories to aluminum rails is 20-25 inch pounds.


----------



## bykfixer

Figure 12 in pounds per foot pound. 
So if you were up to 15-18 foot pounds... WOW! That part was pretty sturdy. 

Part stores sell fairly inexpensive 1/4" drive torque wrenches that use inch pounds.


----------



## dc38

Received today...tint is amazing, size is awesome...now a quick question about the optic. The inside looks scratched to high hell...is this normal?


----------



## dc38

Very warm on low mode running a 16340. Considering the tail is the warmest part, 110F vs 107F for body and head, I assume that the regulation for low mode may be funky on li ions.

In Comparison to the first run on low with streamlight cr123a, as well as the included battery station cell, both cr123a hour runs ran at 98F at the head, and 100F at the tail. A third hour long run reflected the first part of this post with aw 16340, 110F at the tail and 107F at the head. 

Again, this is all in LOW mode. Ll temps taken with a cheap lasergrip 774, i believe that the readouts are lower than actual by a degree or two.


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool. I think many of the optics are that way. You could always give Elzetta a call and ask them what they think.


----------



## dc38

RI Chevy said:


> Cool. I think many of the optics are that way. You could always give Elzetta a call and ask them what they think.



Already sent them an email about the unnaturally warm temps on low mode, will definitely reciprocate when they respond. I have 3 m60 drop ins, 3 surefires with tirs...none of them have this level of scratching or buffing. M60s are clear, and the surefires are intentionally "cloudy" to diffuse lighr better...this one is just straight up scuffed :/ I do love the tint though. Did you end up ordering one from the previously mentioned vendor?


----------



## RI Chevy

I got mine from Elzetta a while ago. Did you end up with the 315 lumen model or the new 415 lumen model?


----------



## dc38

RI Chevy said:


> I got mine from Elzetta a while ago. Did you end up with the 315 lumen model or the new 415 lumen model?



I ordered the 315lm model from BatteryStation's clearance section?..maybe not the best choice?


----------



## RI Chevy

I think you're ok. That's what I have. I personally think it is more neutral than warm. I think the more you use it the more you will like it. 
What tailcap did you get?


----------



## dc38

RI Chevy said:


> I think you're ok. That's what I have. I personally think it is more neutral than warm. I think the more you use it the more you will like it.
> What tailcap did you get?



I have the hi/lo tailcap. You can imagine my surprise after using the light on the included cell on low for an hour and having the temperature go 27F ABOVE my ambient room temperature of 72F...99F-102F is quite high for a light running a low "7 lumen" mode...the tail ring control might be wonky. If yours is also a hi/lo, if you dont mind, would you have the time to test how warm it gets on low if left on for extended periods of time?


----------



## RI Chevy

Its the same. I think it works just like a home dimmer switch. The resister slows down the voltage, and with that comes a small amount of heat. Normal for the high/low tailcaps.


----------



## dc38

RI Chevy said:


> Its the same. I think it works just like a home dimmer switch. The resister slows down the voltage, and with that comes a small amount of heat. Normal for the high/low tailcaps.



It is definitely an ingenious design in these tail switches...courtesy of malkoff? Lol. How do you bypass a physical contact to use multiple modes? Install a secondary electronic contact wired to the same switch!

P.s., never strip the anodizing off the tailcap/body threads, the hi/lo won't work without it.


----------



## RI Chevy

Not really sure. Are you making reference to the M361 3 mode modules? With the H/L ring?


----------



## dc38

RI Chevy said:


> Not really sure. Are you making reference to the M361 3 mode modules? With the H/L ring?



I am referencing the high low bezel rings for the md series...while the placement of the switching device is different, the principle is essentially the same.


----------



## RI Chevy

Yup. Malkoff uses the resistor in the bezel, Elzetta uses the resistor in the tailcap. I am no electrical guru, just a user. Lol
Same basic principles though.


----------



## dc38

Another thing...a bit of nyogel on top of whatever lube they use really smoothed it out...i used to use Qtips, but they have been making them VERY frizzy as of late..i have switched to a silicone turkey basting brush. Wont ruin the threads, wont leave residue from fibers, etc. I learned not to use my fingers, as certain parts of the elzetta are SUPER SHARP.


----------



## WesleyfuhPP

*Elzetta The industrys best kept secret*

TBH, as soon as I saw this threads title, I knew it was going to be mostly the usual posts about how great the Knebworth and O2 versions are. Perhaps I stay on this forum a bit too much?


----------



## the0dore3524

Knebworth and O2??


----------



## Grizzman

I don't know either.....


----------



## RI Chevy

Lol. Maybe thread confusion?


----------



## bykfixer

Maybe that's Maldovan for Bravo and Charlie... copper version of the Alpha?


----------



## the0dore3524

Got a Malkoff 361N for my Bravo...it's awesome! The tint is much warmer and now I have 6 modes 

A little update...

The Alpha came back from servicing, but nothing about the flicker was fixed LOL. I don't want to question the veracity of the work done on the light, but I don't know if they actually looked it over very well, because the flicker is extremely obvious. 

Anyhow, I tried the Alpha with the 16340 cell. Previously someone said that the low on the Alpha would only be slightly brighter with a 16340: on my Alpha - to my eyes - it is about two times brighter than on a primary! I don't know why that is, but the low on my Alpha didn't look like 15 lumens from the start anyways, if that serves to elucidate. 

Here are some pics for reference 
https://imgur.com/a/bj9vX


----------



## LightTheDark

Received my first Elzetta yesterday. The quality overall is amazing, and I'll never buy another import light again. 

I have a question for the group. I emailed Wade at Elzetta about this, and heard back in less than 24 hours with a detailed response and a kind offer for a warranty checkup on the light (great service!). I'm deciding whether to send it in or if this is normal.

On Dave's blogs I believe he says the Hi-Low tailcap operates on low at a rotation of a few degrees to a quarter turn. When I turn the light toward low, about a quarter to half of the time, I get it in an "in-between" state where when I click the tail cap it flashed high sometimes when turning on and off of Low. I can turn the tail cap further and the low mode works properly.

Has anyone else experienced this or is this unusual?

Overall I'm really impressed with the light (this minor issue aside) and look forward to more Elzettas as the budget allows.

Thanks,


----------



## vadimax

LightTheDark said:


> Received my first Elzetta yesterday. The quality overall is amazing, and I'll never buy another import light again.
> 
> I have a question for the group. I emailed Wade at Elzetta about this, and heard back in less than 24 hours with a detailed response and a kind offer for a warranty checkup on the light (great service!). I'm deciding whether to send it in or if this is normal.
> 
> On Dave's blogs I believe he says the Hi-Low tailcap operates on low at a rotation of a few degrees to a quarter turn. When I turn the light toward low, about a quarter to half of the time, I get it in an "in-between" state where when I click the tail cap it flashed high sometimes when turning on and off of Low. I can turn the tail cap further and the low mode works properly.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this or is this unusual?
> 
> Overall I'm really impressed with the light (this minor issue aside) and look forward to more Elzettas as the budget allows.
> 
> Thanks,



Please don't send it nowhere  This is normal. If you open the tail cap you may see a small metallic rod inside:







It is the switch that provides high/low regulation. If you unscrew the tail cap insufficiently the tail cap button press (oh, yes, it is stiff) takes out the thread backlash and you actually depress that rod inside. As a result you get that high mode flash.

All you need is to do not a quarter turn, but half turn -- just checked on my B343  Quarter turn is OK when you have your Elzetta on.


----------



## bykfixer

They told me that is normal and can be a boon if you want high in breif spurts. 
Basically what you do is rotate it like you say nearly a half turn, and if you depress a broad portion of your forefinger or thumb (depending on your carry style) you can press down on the tailcap while pressing the button and get momentary high output.

I found it annoying until I figured how far to twist the tailcap to have that ability or not have it.


----------



## INFRNL

Thinking of getting an Elzetta but haven't fully decided yet(probably bravo/charlie, not sure if i have enough interest in the alpha). I have a lot of interest in the Elzetta and Malkoff lights but only having 2 levels of output is kind of a bummer. I know you can get the m361 drop-in but i feel that the 375lm or 275 nichia will not be enough. plus it's only rated to 6v and I will not be using primaries

Anyway, my main concern/question on the elzetta is that i think its only designed for 16mm cells; rather than being able to accommodate 18mm cells. I know oveready can bore or provides bored hosts but there are also drawbacks to that as well. They say the hi/lo will no longer work. They also claim that 7.4v from 2x18350 on the bravo will provide the 900lm output on the avs head, is this correct? I thought the avs head needed 9v to get the 900lm output.

Can someone clarify this for me, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks


----------



## matt4350

If you won't be using primaries, the Elzetta Bravo will run quite happily on a 16650. I use Keeppowers in mine. I've run 2 RCR123s in it, the output does appear brighter than with the primaries, so maybe it does put out 900lm with 2 rechargeables. Run time is quite inadequate for my uses, I only got close to 30 minutes before shutdown, and I've heard of others getting less. With a 16650 you should be looking at somewhere near an hour or so. I love this light, and having 2 levels suits all of my needs. I love the Charlie more, but I haven't figured out a rechargeable solution without boring it so I'll just keep forking out for primaries.


----------



## vadimax

I've got a B343. It happily delivers 900 lm with a couple of 16350 cells. Mine starts to emit vibrating beam (900<->650 lm) when both cells at 3.514-3.515V. So I may claim that my sample flips at ~7.3V.

I must mention that 3.14-3.15V is idle voltage. Perhaps, those cells give 7V or less under load. They are AW IMR 16350 550mAh.

I have selected Bravo AVS because of its "multi fuel" ability: 2xCR123A, 2x16350, 1x16650.


----------



## sween1911

You guys are killin' me. I thought I had my flashlight needs covered. Then I read how the Elzetta High/Low tailcap works. Now I needsssssss one!


----------



## bykfixer

If you are used to overhand carry Sween the hi/lo tail can can be adjusted one handed by moving your thumb away from the button into a grip position then easily placed back onto the button. 
Pretty good setup imo.

With a bit of practice and plenty of lube on the threads it becomes a pretty natural process if you are using momentary low and want to suddenly place it into bad guy blinder mode.


----------



## eraursls1984

INFRNL said:


> Anyway, my main concern/question on the elzetta is that i think its only designed for 16mm cells; rather than being able to accommodate 18mm cells. I know oveready can bore or provides bored hosts but there are also drawbacks to that as well. They say the hi/lo will no longer work...


They do have the new Bones 18650 light. Unfortunately, it is limited to a single high mode. I'd be interested in it if it were Hi/Lo.


----------



## firstlighting

Would you recommend this brand? I'm looking to spend £150-£250 on a serious beast for industrial use, was thinking mag-lite


----------



## INFRNL

matt4350 said:


> If you won't be using primaries, the Elzetta Bravo will run quite happily on a 16650. I use Keeppowers in mine. I've run 2 RCR123s in it, the output does appear brighter than with the primaries, so maybe it does put out 900lm with 2 rechargeables. Run time is quite inadequate for my uses, I only got close to 30 minutes before shutdown, and I've heard of others getting less. With a 16650 you should be looking at somewhere near an hour or so. I love this light, and having 2 levels suits all of my needs. I love the Charlie more, but I haven't figured out a rechargeable solution without boring it so I'll just keep forking out for primaries.


30 mins or less on 2xrcr123(16340), that's crazy. 16650 gives 1000mah more and 30mins or so more runtime but at the 650lm rating.
why not run 3x 16340 for the Charlie? The avs head is rated to a max of 14v, 3x16340 (rcr123) should be around 12.6v fully charged, right? So in theory, this would work



vadimax said:


> I've got a B343. It happily delivers 900 lm with a couple of 16350 cells. Mine starts to emit vibrating beam (900<->650 lm) when both cells at 3.514-3.515V. So I may claim that my sample flips at ~7.3V.
> 
> I must mention that 3.14-3.15V is idle voltage. Perhaps, those cells give 7V or less under load. They are AW IMR 16350 550mAh.
> 
> I have selected Bravo AVS because of its "multi fuel" ability: 2xCR123A, 2x16350, 1x16650.


Thank you for the info. your logic makes sense



eraursls1984 said:


> They do have the new Bones 18650 light. Unfortunately, it is limited to a single high mode. I'd be interested in it if it were Hi/Lo.


it's too bad these are made specifically for primaries or 16/17mm cells only. That is the biggest drawback of Elzetta, in my opinion. Although I can see where the extra 2mm goes along with their toughest light in the world motto



If I decide to try one out; I planned to get a full Charlie with a bravo host through battery station. pricing basically gives me the host for free when compared to buying direct through elzetta. It's like a win win, and gives me both options. Even though, not optimal (not being able to use 18mm cells), I still want a quality USA made flashlight. Also plan to try the malkoff for comparison. I hear nothing but good things about both.

Thanks for the info from ea of you.


----------



## peter yetman

eraursls1984 said:


> They do have the new Bones 18650 light. Unfortunately, it is limited to a single high mode. I'd be interested in it if it were Hi/Lo.


Have alook at this from the "Bones" thread...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-18650-light&p=5017037&viewfull=1#post5017037

P


----------



## eraursls1984

peter yetman said:


> Have alook at this from the "Bones" thread...
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-18650-light&p=5017037&viewfull=1#post5017037
> 
> P


Thanks! I saw that original post, guess I didn't see it after the edit. I'll have to look into that now.


----------



## bykfixer

I read somewhere the Bones and Bravo tailcaps are interchangeable. So.... sounds like the hi/lo tailcap would work on the Bones.


----------



## Grizzman

INFRNL said:


> why not run 3x 16340 for the Charlie? The avs head is rated to a max of 14v, 3x16340 (rcr123) should be around 12.6v fully charged, right? So in theory, this would work



Where did you read/hear that the Charlie is rated to 14 volts? Users have asked in this thread what the maximum voltage is, but I haven't seen any absolute answers given, surely not by Elzetta.

If this is true, then it will have the widest voltage range of all my lights. A Bravo with AVS just generated roughly 50 lumens from a single partially used CR123 (resting voltage of 3.05v) and a CR123 spacer.


----------



## flashy bazook

In addition to the M61 SHO, the M91's are typically rated for 12 volts.

In fact there was a lot of discussion here in the forums that using the M91 in a 3x123 tube was not the best approach, so either you use 4x123's or go the Li-Ion route.

The 3x123 cells are under a lot of pressure from the M91's and had a tendency to sag.


----------



## INFRNL

Grizzman said:


> Where did you read/hear that the Charlie is rated to 14 volts? Users have asked in this thread what the maximum voltage is, but I haven't seen any absolute answers given, surely not by Elzetta.
> 
> If this is true, then it will have the widest voltage range of all my lights. A Bravo with AVS just generated roughly 50 lumens from a single partially used CR123 (resting voltage of 3.05v) and a CR123 spacer.


Hopefully I am not lying; I can't recall where I saw it, let me see if I can find it. Hopefully I am not confusing my info with something from Malkoff.

I have been doing a ton of reading/research this past week trying to learn and find a few new lights to meet my needs. So it is very possible I have some info mixed up and I apologize about getting anyone excited if I am mistaken. I will post back as soon as I figure this out...


I can definitely confirm that the Malkoff: HD, WC, M91 have a absolute max of 14v. This may very well be what I was thinking and apologize for misinformation. I will continue to see If I can find anything on the AVS head


----------



## flashy bazook

You may have been reading up from the Malkoff Devices website, where at some point it says:

"The input voltage is 3 to 12 volts. Below 6v the light will slowly decrease in output until 3v. At which point the light will shut down. Exceeding 14v may damage the head"

This is from the Super HD flashlight/head description.

The Super HD as well as the M91 variant's show a max voltage of 12. However, this quote seems to suggest you might sort of drive it up a bit above 12 volts if you really wanted, even though the official max is indeed 12.

Anyway, just one possibility.


----------



## INFRNL

flashy bazook said:


> You may have been reading up from the Malkoff Devices website, where at some point it says:
> 
> "The input voltage is 3 to 12 volts. Below 6v the light will slowly decrease in output until 3v. At which point the light will shut down. Exceeding 14v may damage the head"
> 
> This is from the Super HD flashlight/head description.
> 
> The Super HD as well as the M91 variant's show a max voltage of 12. However, this quote seems to suggest you might sort of drive it up a bit above 12 volts if you really wanted, even though the official max is indeed 12.
> 
> Anyway, just one possibility.



You are probably right. 

Can anyone tell me what the actual voltage is on a new cr123a is? Is it exactly 3v or is it slightly higher? reason why I ask is because if it is say 3.2v, then I would guess that the avs head has a higher limit than 9v


anyone want to be a guinnea pig and try 3x 16340/rcr123's in a Charlie...hahaha maybe I will. Still searching with no luck, so I was most likely remembering what I read on the malkoff site. what a bummer.


----------



## archimedes

I am very conservative on safety issues, as many of you know, so I don't push voltage limits.

Be aware that open circuit voltage differs from voltage under load ....


----------



## Grizzman

I measured a couple of new CR123's resting voltage earlier this evening and they were ~3.262v. It's very likely that Elzetta factored some extra voltage capacity into their design, instead of the absolute max being exactly what three CR123s are capable of delivering.

The resistance of the springs, body, and driver also can't be ignored. Three CR123s with resting voltages of 3.083 and 3.084 give a total voltage of 9.25 when sitting on a table. Placing the same cells into a Charlie (and pulling a reading from the rear cell's negative contact and body threads) gives a measurement of 8.43 volts.

It would be pretty awesome if the AVS would accept three 16340s (RCR123), since that would allow any battery combination that fits into the body to work. I always run as few cells in series as possible, but in extreme circumstances, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I won't be a guinea pig in this instance.


----------



## INFRNL

archimedes said:


> I am very conservative on safety issues, as many of you know, so I don't push voltage limits.
> 
> Be aware that open circuit voltage differs from voltage under load ....




Thank you for the input on voltage difference. 

Would Gene clarify what the voltage limit of the AVS is if we call? I imagine that many have already talked to him and asked. Just seems that nobody really know what the limit is, but we can safely say that it has a range of 6-9v.


----------



## Grizzman

As far as we know, the AVS head was designed by Elzetta, not by Gene.

The Charlie is designed for three CR123s, so it will comfortable handle what they deliver. I personally run a bored Bravo from a single 18650, which gets me about 500 guilt free lumens, which runs for a usefully long time.

I consider it's completely useful voltage range to be 4.2 to 9.6 volts (resting).


----------



## INFRNL

firstlighting said:


> Would you recommend this brand? I'm looking to spend £150-£250 on a serious beast for industrial use, was thinking mag-lite


I'm thinking if you come into a dedicated thread, that you will get a solid yes answer. I am not familiar with all the brands, quality, etc. Elzetta says they have the toughest light on the planet and from the pics and a video I watched, I can believe it. If these lights have the features you need, I'd say go for it. I'm sure there are some other brands that would also work in an industrial environment, but I cannot help you on that as I am still learning myself.




Grizzman said:


> I measured a couple of new CR123's resting voltage earlier this evening and they were ~3.262v. It's very likely that Elzetta factored some extra voltage capacity into their design, instead of the absolute max being exactly what three CR123s are capable of delivering.
> 
> The resistance of the springs, body, and driver also can't be ignored. Three CR123s with resting voltages of 3.083 and 3.084 give a total voltage of 9.25 when sitting on a table. Placing the same cells into a Charlie (and pulling a reading from the rear cell's negative contact and body threads) gives a measurement of 8.43 volts.
> 
> It would be pretty awesome if the AVS would accept three 16340s (RCR123), since that would allow any battery combination that fits into the body to work. I always run as few cells in series as possible, but in extreme circumstances, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I won't be a guinea pig in this instance.


the guinea pig part was kind of a joke, I know nobody is silly enough to risk damage to their high dollar avs head.

how are you measuring voltage when if you have the light assembled? I'm just curious so I can learn to check these things as well. Thanks

and yes, that would be awesome to run 3x 16340/rcr123 in the Charlie, plus the ability to run 2x 16500's or primaries. I know things are different but from my research/reading, it seems that the Elzetta and Malkoff devices are somewhat similar in various ways; that's part of the reason why I was initially thinking the Charlie would be similar to an MD3 host w/head. Maybe I was just hoping the AVS head has similar voltage limits 



Grizzman said:


> As far as we know, the AVS head was designed by Elzetta, not by Gene.
> 
> The Charlie is designed for three CR123s, so it will comfortable handle what they deliver. I personally run a bored Bravo from a single 18650, which gets me about 500 guilt free lumens, which runs for a usefully long time.


Did I mess up again... Is gene with Elzetta or Malkoff, hahaha. I need to just stick to research and keep my mixed up info in my head.

I missed the last part. Technically 500lm is plenty for normal use and the extended runtime of using the 18650 would be more important in many cases. You definitely have options which is also really nice.

Who bored the host?


----------



## Grizzman

I simply lay three cells in a line onto a flat surface with positive contacts resting against negative contacts. The DMM's negative probe is placed against the rear cell's negative contact and the positive probe is placed against the front cell's positive contact.

The prime Elzetta spokesman's name is Dave Barnett, and he is one of the company's owners. He seems to hold a PE (Professional Engineer) license, so my guess is that he'll be able to answer any question you've got.

In the past, Oveready hosted bore batches in which they would accept a variety of different Surefire and Elzetta lights from customers, and send them to a machine shop for processing. The machine shop was never revealed, but they did quality work. Each of my bored Elzettas went through this process. Oveready also sells new Bravo and Charlie bodies, that they had bored, directly from their site. Demand for bored hosts has decreased dramatically, so it's unknown if another bore batch will occur.

If Barry at Precision Works is still boring lights, his work can also be trusted fully. I vaguely recall him boring Elzettas in the past.


----------



## the0dore3524

Well I wouldn't say they have the mooost tough. The thing doing the bulk of the work is the Malkoff module. That said, they do build some of the toughest hosts out there; their design is one of the only ones I know of contoured toward securing the module specifically. The anodizing impeccable, as well. I can definitely say that my Bravo with M361n is the toughest light I currently own. 

My Alpha is a different story though. Water leaked in somehow when it fell into the pool and totally screwed with the electronics despite the electronics being potted. Even now it has serious flickering issues for the first couple seconds when I turn it on.

As for the AVS head, it seems pretty darn tough considering the torture tests done to it on the forum here. I don't know how it would compare to the M60 head. 

Gene is with Malkoff but is the one who designed the proprietary M60 module for Elzetta. As far as I know, the AVS head was designed separately by Elzetta.


----------



## INFRNL

Grizzman said:


> I simply lay three cells in a line onto a flat surface with positive contacts resting against negative contacts. The DMM's negative probe is placed against the rear cell's negative contact and the positive probe is placed against the front cell's positive contact.
> 
> The prime Elzetta spokesman's name is Dave Barnett, and he is one of the company's owners. He seems to hold a PE (Professional Engineer) license, so my guess is that he'll be able to answer any question you've got.
> 
> In the past, Oveready hosted bore batches in which they would accept a variety of different Surefire and Elzetta lights from customers, and send them to a machine shop for processing. The machine shop was never revealed, but they did quality work. Each of my bored Elzettas went through this process. Oveready also sells new Bravo and Charlie bodies, that they had bored, directly from their site. Demand for bored hosts has decreased dramatically, so it's unknown if another bore batch will occur.
> 
> If Barry at Precision Works is still boring lights, his work can also be trusted fully. I vaguely recall him boring Elzettas in the past.


 I got the initial part of checking the cell voltage but I mainly was talking about this: "_The resistance of the springs, body, and driver also can't be ignored. Three CR123s with resting voltages of 3.083 and 3.084 give a total voltage of 9.25 when sitting on a table. *Placing the same cells into a Charlie (and pulling a reading from the rear cell's negative contact and body threads) gives a measurement of 8.43 volts.*_​*"*





the0dore3524 said:


> Well I wouldn't say they have the mooost tough. The thing doing the bulk of the work is the Malkoff module. That said, they do build some of the toughest hosts out there; their design is one of the only ones I know of contoured toward securing the module specifically. The anodizing impeccable, as well. I can definitely say that my Bravo with M361n is the toughest light I currently own.
> 
> My Alpha is a different story though. Water leaked in somehow when it fell into the pool and totally screwed with the electronics despite the electronics being potted. Even now it has serious flickering issues for the first couple seconds when I turn it on.
> 
> As for the AVS head, it seems pretty darn tough considering the torture tests done to it on the forum here. I don't know how it would compare to the M60 head.
> 
> Gene is with Malkoff but is the one who designed the proprietary M60 module for Elzetta. As far as I know, the AVS head was designed separately by Elzetta.


sorry to hear about your issues with the alpha, that's a bad deal. 

I'm mainly interested in the Bravo/Charlie with avs head. I'd like to get the standard head with M361N but I feel that the 375lm is not quite enough for what I'm looking for, but definitely like that it gives the hml option. wish they had a higher output version and surprised that they don't being that we all know they make higher powered M61 lights. Even a M91 (m391N) would be a nice touch, but higher output.

I also have my eye on the M91T, Wildcat, and Super hound dog.

Thanks for all the extra info and clarification. I really appreciate it, especially from grizzman. He has responded to my questions in different threads


----------



## matt4350

If you're more keen on using rechargeable cells, and you think the Bravo is not quite what you're looking for, the M91T you mentioned is sure worth a look. I have one of these that I bought to compare to the Charlie, and run it on 2 Keeppower 18500 cells. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with either. The tint and beam patterns are different, but they're both excellent pieces of kit.


----------



## redvalkyrie

Where could someone purchase a high/low Elzetta tail-cap?


----------



## RI Chevy

Elzetta


----------



## Grizzman

I read with the light assembled as with the light unsassembled. oops.

To take the reading with the cells in the body, the tailcap is removed with the head installed. The positive lead of the multi-meter is placed in contact with the non-anodized tailcap threads. The negative lead of the multi-meter is placed against the rear cell's exposed negative contact.


----------



## INFRNL

Grizzman said:


> I read with the light assembled as with the light unsassembled. oops.
> 
> To take the reading with the cells in the body, the tailcap is removed with the head installed. The positive lead of the multi-meter is placed in contact with the non-anodized tailcap threads. The negative lead of the multi-meter is placed against the rear cell's exposed negative contact.


Thanks



matt4350 said:


> If you're more keen on using rechargeable cells, and you think the Bravo is not quite what you're looking for, the M91T you mentioned is sure worth a look. I have one of these that I bought to compare to the Charlie, and run it on 2 Keeppower 18500 cells. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with either. The tint and beam patterns are different, but they're both excellent pieces of kit.


Thanks, i was actually planning to get the m91t as well. Do you prefer one over the other?



redvalkyrie said:


> Where could someone purchase a high/low Elzetta tail-cap?



Elzetta or battery station I believe




EDIT: just out of curiosity, is there anyone that prefers the standard m60/61 dropin rather than the avs head? Also, if someone bought a Bravo with avs head but wanted to try a m60/m61 drop-in; what would additionally be needed to use the drop-in rather than avs unit? Not sure if you just swap out the units but still use the same head/bezel? Thanks


----------



## the0dore3524

Hey, I definitely prefer the drop-in as opposed to the AVS Head having had both. It's slimmer and gives more options. As a general rule with a drop in, hence the name, all you need to do is drop it in then screw back on the bezel. However if you're using an AVS head, you will need to purchase the separate head/bezel for the M60 (just to clarify, not the drop in itself, although you will need a drop in). Also, as with my M360n, I needed to purchase a VME lens/gasket kit, because the front of the drop in lacks a cover. Hope this helps!


----------



## INFRNL

the0dore3524 said:


> Hey, I definitely prefer the drop-in as opposed to the AVS Head having had both. It's slimmer and gives more options. As a general rule with a drop in, hence the name, all you need to do is drop it in then screw back on the bezel. However if you're using an AVS head, you will need to purchase the separate head/bezel for the M60 (just to clarify, not the drop in itself, although you will need a drop in). Also, as with my M360n, I needed to purchase a VME lens/gasket kit, because the front of the drop in lacks a cover. Hope this helps!



Thanks. There are definitely more options when it comes to m60/61. One that has interest to me is the NW or Nichia. I'd like to run the M361 If I went this route. 

Man do I need to hurry up and get off this forum. With all the research I've been doing, I already want to try a bunch of different lights. My guess is that I will start off spending $2k on various (USA) lights to find what fits me best, then if I start playing with drop-ins it will continue a little further. I also want to try a few different lights from a couple of off shore manufacturers (not sure if these will fit in with the 2k or not, most likely not. 

Can you expand more on why you prefer the drop-in more? Do you like the beam pattern better, specifically for Neutral emitter, etc?

Bummer that I would need a complete new head/bezel. For some reason I thought the AVS unit came out of it's head and was the same as the one for the m60 drop-ins. I guess it also makes sense that this is a different design/tech, that they wouldn't be compatible. 



While we are on it, does anyone have experience with the floody lens? I feel that at times the floody lens would provide better light for my use. Some lights have a great spill but do not necessarily light that area up as much as I would like. Thanks again


----------



## the0dore3524

Yes, the AVS head only supports the exchange of filters - not whole drop-ins! You can get the drop-in compatible head for $20 on Elzetta's website if you're interested.

With the M361, I get 6 modes with the hi/lo tailcap. The regular 15-80-375 and then three more ~5 lumen modes when tailcap is untwisted. In other words, way more versatility as opposed to 15-600. The beam pattern is also a lot better compared to the AVS imo. Personally, though, I don't like the neutral tiny very much - it is comparable to a Nichia 219b. I don't know why, but the higher cri gives me a headache and strains my eyes. 

Here are some pictures if you're wondering:

https://imgur.com/a/nvHfv

^_^


----------



## RI Chevy

I think the AVS heads are great. I love the tint and the battery options. But I do have both the older traditional head that accepts dropins and the AVS heads.


----------



## INFRNL

the0dore3524 said:


> Yes, the AVS head only supports the exchange of filters - not whole drop-ins! You can get the drop-in compatible head for $20 on Elzetta's website if you're interested.
> 
> With the M361, I get 6 modes with the hi/lo tailcap. The regular 15-80-375 and then three more ~5 lumen modes when tailcap is untwisted. In other words, way more versatility as opposed to 15-600. The beam pattern is also a lot better compared to the AVS imo. Personally, though, I don't like the neutral tiny very much - it is comparable to a Nichia 219b. I don't know why, but the higher cri gives me a headache and strains my eyes.
> 
> Here are some pictures if you're wondering:
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/nvHfv
> 
> ^_^


Thank you. I do not own an Elzetta yet, just working on my research before I make a purchase. I appreciate the info and pics. 

Kind of a bummer that the six modes with hi/lo switch aren't exactly useful, at least in my case. but it is definitely nice that you get the hml and moonlight in addition. 

I understand Elzetta's and Malkoffs point of view on the 2 mode ease of use idea but imo; this is only useful on an outdoor light(at least for me), not an all around use light. I guess that is one nice thing about the mdc ha, they have hml, but missing the moonlight mode which I sue quite often.

My current plan is to order a Bravo AVS with an additional Charlie body to play with battery options. Will probably also pick up a crenulated bezel and flood lens as well. Then I was planning on ordering some items from Malkoff too (1 being an MD2 so I can mess with the m361N or most likely nichia 219b. Which is why I asked about parts needed, so if I wanted to, I could use the M361 drop-in on the bravo as well if I wanted. Basically just want to place 1 order for ea manufacturer and have a bunch of options to play with, to decide on what I like

I am pretty sure if I went with the drop-in it would definitely need to be the m361 variant 

Thanks again, much appreciated



RI Chevy said:


> I think the AVS heads are great. I love the tint and the battery options. But I do have both the older traditional head that accepts dropins and the AVS heads.


Thank you. I imagine it's a toss up on avs vs m60/61

Are you saying your head accepts either avs or drop in? If so, why did they not stick to that and make things separate. Or am I misunderstanding what you said.


----------



## Grizzman

Anyone that buys a Charlie or (especially) Bravo with AVS head owes it to themselves to pick up a low profile head and a Malkoff M61 or M61N.

While the Bravo with an AVS head works very well, it simply won't fit into my standard bluejeans front pocket to be among my EDC rotation. It is very comfortable in the same spot in my loose fitting cargo shorts for warm months. The same Bravo body and tailcap with a low profile head is shorter than pretty much every other 18650 sized light I own. The Prometheus clips allow it to ride at a useful level in the pocket.

I've got a Charlie with AVS flood lens, and turning it on at 3 am in the living room is like flipping a light switch...nothing can hide. The M60F, with it's significantly lower output level, isn't nearly as useful. It's great for close range illumination, but not ideal for the highly tactical use-case for which these lights excel.

I personally consider a Bravo with M361 to be a bit of an odd duck for every day, ordinary usage. I used to own an M361N, but happily traded it for an old M61W. Yes, it delivers basically four levels of light, but when the switch is pressed, it's very likely that it will come on in a mode I really don't want. A light with tail-switch activation and mode changing would need to be exceptional for me to use it, and the Bravo simply doesn't fit that criterion. Also, if a light doesn't readily tail-stand, it's almost guaranteed that I'll need it to do it. 

For my hands, I've found no better tailcap shape or switch/boot design. When in a Harries or Rogers grip, no amount of pressure applied to the boot will cause the switch to latch. In a high stress situation, this is exactly what I want....1 pre-selected mode, with no possibility of accidental switch latching or mode changes. This hypothetical worse case scenario is exactly why I choose the Elzetta (or an MD2 with McClickied, HardPress boot) over any other light in existence.


----------



## INFRNL

Grizzman said:


> Anyone that buys a Charlie or (especially) Bravo with AVS head owes it to themselves to pick up a low profile head and a Malkoff M61 or M61N.While the Bravo with an AVS head works very well, it simply won't fit into my standard bluejeans front pocket to be among my EDC rotation. It is very comfortable in the same spot in my loose fitting cargo shorts for warm months. The same Bravo body and tailcap with a low profile head is shorter than pretty much every other 18650 sized light I own. The Prometheus clips allow it to ride at a useful level in the pocket.I've got a Charlie with AVS flood lens, and turning it on at 3 am in the living room is like flipping a light switch...nothing can hide. The M60F, with it's significantly lower output level, isn't nearly as useful. It's great for close range illumination, but not ideal for the highly tactical use-case for which these lights excel.I personally consider a Bravo with M361 to be a bit of an odd duck for every day, ordinary usage. I used to own an M361N, but happily traded it for an old M61W. Yes, it delivers basically four levels of light, but when the switch is pressed, it's very likely that it will come on in a mode I really don't want. A light with tail-switch activation and mode changing would need to be exceptional for me to use it, and the Bravo simply doesn't fit that criterion. Also, if a light doesn't readily tail-stand, it's almost guaranteed that I'll need it to do it. For my hands, I've found no better tailcap shape or switch/boot design. When in a Harries or Rogers grip, no amount of pressure applied to the boot will cause the switch to latch. In a high stress situation, this is exactly what I want....1 pre-selected mode, with no possibility of accidental switch latching or mode changes. This hypothetical worse case scenario is exactly why I choose the Elzetta (or an MD2 with McClickied, HardPress boot) over any other light in existence.



ok, thanks. this gives me some things to consider.So do you exclusively own Elzetta and Malkoff or do you also have other brands? From your last statement, I'm thinking just these 2

My issue with only 2 modes is that I am then limited. There are many cases in my use where high could be too much and low is either not enough or even possibly too much. Call this what you will, but on occasion; I need to go into the bedroom after the wife has gone to sleep (she is a light sleeper and we will leave it at that...haha) so I need just enough light to be able to see (which is an ultra low moonlight mode).
Or in certain cases (depending which light we are talking about) low mode just isn't enough to deliver adequate light. So, ideally a hml would be borderline and moonlight is almost a must for me. I know I will not get that on the typical Elzetta or most Malkoffs, but I am willing to check these out, especially with all the praise for them. 

I can see your points though and luckily I have never (knocking on wood) been in a situation where I needed a specific mode instantly. But since I got my zebralight with instant access to 4 different options it has been much nicer than constantly scrolling through to get to the level of light I want. So definitely a good point and depending on my current mood this may or may not be an issue, lol


----------



## matt4350

You asked if I preferred either the Elzetta or Malkoff over the other. I find the Elzetta better at illuminating a comparatively large area, and the intensity of the beam is not particularly obvious in the centre, so it's great for having a look around over large areas and flooding out a big room with light. The tint of the beam is more of a neutral colour to my eyes and seems quite pleasant. The Malkoff is great for putting a big spot of intense light out, very handy for identifying people a bit of a distance away or looking through tinted windows. It doesn't illuminate as much space up close, although it's more than adequate for that sort of thing (beam is more of a "traditional" style, if you will). I can't say I prefer one over the other, and the Malkoff's ability to use rechargeable batteries makes it hard to beat however (this is an Elzetta thread, after all) when you hold the Charlie you'll understand why you paid so much for a light and you won't be sorry. 

If I need moonlight, I just put my fingers over the lens


----------



## Rob Babcock

I have four Elzetta bodies, three that have AVS heads (well, one is an Alpha) and one with the standard and various Malkoff dropins. It's kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison. The AVS is much brighter with great tint and a terrific beam pattern. The Malkoffs are, obviously, also terrific. It's cool to be able switch characteristics by just swapping dropins, although in practice I go with the M61N and just leave it alone. The AVS head is a bit bit to carry in my front pocket as EDC but sometimes I do anyway. The standard head (and particularly the low profile) is better to carry in the front pocket of my jeans. But the Malkoff MDC is better still in that role.


----------



## INFRNL

Rob Babcock said:


> I have four Elzetta bodies, three that have AVS heads (well, one is an Alpha) and one with the standard and various Malkoff dropins. It's kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison. The AVS is much brighter with great tint and a terrific beam pattern. The Malkoffs are, obviously, also terrific. It's cool to be able switch characteristics by just swapping dropins, although in practice I go with the M61N and just leave it alone. The AVS head is a bit bit to carry in my front pocket as EDC but sometimes I do anyway. The standard head (and particularly the low profile) is better to carry in the front pocket of my jeans. But the Malkoff MDC is better still in that role.



Thank you for this information.

I also want to thank everyone else for their contributions and also want to appologize for mentioning or asking too much about non-Elzetta products here. 

I mainly figured since they both can utilize the malkoff drop ins and many of you own both, that it was somewhat ok. But either way, I appologize if i was in the wrong and definitely appreciate all the info/feedback 

I think i got enough figured out to get me started.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Remember, too, that you can get the AVS head and a low profile head and swap them on the same body. Best of both worlds!


----------



## LightTheDark

> While we are on it, does anyone have experience with the floody lens? I feel that at times the floody lens would provide better light for my use. Some lights have a great spill but do not necessarily light that area up as much as I would like. Thanks again



I recently got my first elzetta, and definitely wanted the flood lens. It truly lights up everything in front of you and gradually fades toward the 90-degree position. Pointed at a wall, the flood doesn't look as bright as one of the narrow Beam lights, but in real application, the difference is amazing, I can see everything in my yard, not just where I point the light.


----------



## RI Chevy

To change the subject a little here, have the emails been getting responses from them?


----------



## Grizzman

I sent one well over a month ago, and have not received a response. I am going to send one to the other contact mentioned here. 

Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## RI Chevy

Jeeeesh. OK. Thanks Grizzman. Keep us posted please.


----------



## Grizzman

I just found the item in my sent mail folder.....November 23rd. I do not expect a response at this poInt.

I have forwarded my original e-mail to Wade.


----------



## Grizzman

I just received an e-mail response from Wade, with both an answer to my question and an RMA #.


----------



## RI Chevy

Great! He must be getting much more emails sent to him. Lol
Glad you got a quick response the 2nd time.


----------



## INFRNL

Rob Babcock said:


> Remember, too, that you can get the AVS head and a low profile head and swap them on the same body. Best of both worlds!


Yes,thank you. I was actually already thinking about doing that



LightTheDark said:


> I recently got my first elzetta, and definitely wanted the flood lens. It truly lights up everything in front of you and gradually fades toward the 90-degree position. Pointed at a wall, the flood doesn't look as bright as one of the narrow Beam lights, but in real application, the difference is amazing, I can see everything in my yard, not just where I point the light.


Thanks, sounds like something I'm looking for. 

I'd say most of my use is within 300-400ft. But I'd like a large area lit up. On occasion i might want to see out further wouldn't need the entire area lit. I definitely plan to try the flood lens as well.

Being that my yard is not necessarily all that big this would be perfect. I don't want to have to scan the small area just to see. It'd be great to just turn on the light and have the entire yard all lit up(makes life a little easier)


----------



## Grizzman

Wow, another Elzetta sale is occurring now. These happening much more often than in years past.


----------



## RI Chevy

Yup. I was surprised about the Email too. 
10% off. HOME.


----------



## vadimax

INFRNL said:


> Yes,thank you. I was actually already thinking about doing that
> 
> 
> Thanks, sounds like something I'm looking for.
> 
> I'd say most of my use is within 300-400ft. But I'd like a large area lit up. On occasion i might want to see out further wouldn't need the entire area lit. I definitely plan to try the flood lens as well.
> 
> Being that my yard is not necessarily all that big this would be perfect. I don't want to have to scan the small area just to see. It'd be great to just turn on the light and have the entire yard all lit up(makes life a little easier)



I must disappoint you  The flood lens would not help at 300 ft. The most you may get with it is 150 ft I guess. It is best for close quarters situation, not open areas.


----------



## RI Chevy

PM's aren't working for some reason. 
Coupon code is HOME for 10% off.


----------



## vadimax

RI Chevy said:


> PM's aren't working for some reason.
> Coupon code is HOME for 10% off.



Thank you, I know  Got the same e-mail from Elzetta.


----------



## Johnnyh

Grizzman said:


> Anyone that buys a Charlie or (especially) Bravo with AVS head owes it to themselves to pick up a low profile head and a Malkoff M61 or M61N.
> 
> While the Bravo with an AVS head works very well, it simply won't fit into my standard bluejeans front pocket to be among my EDC rotation. It is very comfortable in the same spot in my loose fitting cargo shorts for warm months. The same Bravo body and tailcap with a low profile head is shorter than pretty much every other 18650 sized light I own. The Prometheus clips allow it to ride at a useful level in the pocket.
> 
> I've got a Charlie with AVS flood lens, and turning it on at 3 am in the living room is like flipping a light switch...nothing can hide. The M60F, with it's significantly lower output level, isn't nearly as useful. It's great for close range illumination, but not ideal for the highly tactical use-case for which these lights excel.
> 
> I personally consider a Bravo with M361 to be a bit of an odd duck for every day, ordinary usage. I used to own an M361N, but happily traded it for an old M61W. Yes, it delivers basically four levels of light, but when the switch is pressed, it's very likely that it will come on in a mode I really don't want. A light with tail-switch activation and mode changing would need to be exceptional for me to use it, and the Bravo simply doesn't fit that criterion. Also, if a light doesn't readily tail-stand, it's almost guaranteed that I'll need it to do it.
> 
> For my hands, I've found no better tailcap shape or switch/boot design. When in a Harries or Rogers grip, no amount of pressure applied to the boot will cause the switch to latch. In a high stress situation, this is exactly what I want....1 pre-selected mode, with no possibility of accidental switch latching or mode changes. This hypothetical worse case scenario is exactly why I choose the Elzetta (or an MD2 with McClickied, HardPress boot) over any other light in existence.



New here but just want to thank and reiterate Grizzman's advice on the low profile bezel/M61N drop-in advice on the Bravo. I too have the AVS flood. On a Charlie or Bravo, it truly is like flipping the room light on. Although I love the AVS (it is my SHTF nightstand staple on a CR123 powered Charlie) the M61N-equipped, low profile Bravo goes with me everywhere. Along with the high/low tail cap, it is just so...practical. Beautiful beam quality that stabs the dark on high, great for walking-the-dog-without-alarming-the-neighbors on low. Don't know how I lived without it!


----------



## PeterSteele

Grizzman said:


> Here are a few photos of an Alpha wearing a couple different clips.
> 
> Prometheus Surefire 6P clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moddoolar HDS/Surefire clip


 

nice pix, thanx....they helped me make the decision to buy the Prometheus Ti clip for my new Alpha w/hi-lo tailcap which i just received last week....
after installing the clip today, i'm noticing that now when i rotate the cap from low to high , high doesn't activate until almost full 100% lockout, with maybe (ballpark) 1/8" play until it reverts back to low....we'll see, maybe it's not a bad thing, maybe i just gotta get used to it....

another thing,for now, i'll probably be leaving the Alpha in low mode while it's off, but i'm wondering if i change my mind and start leaving it fully cranked over to the right in "hi", with the new clip on, as the tailcap "breaks in" over time will it "slip" out of hi while its in my pocket because of the way the new clip limits the hi range ? 

curious, did u keep your Prometheus clip on the Alpha for awhile ? is so, did it scratch the finish at all up near the head ?


----------



## Grizzman

I've still got the Prometheus clip on it, and I've been using it for close to three years. The mark from the clip is minor, and not visible without really good light. Elzetta's HA is still some of the best I've experienced.

Mine lives in high, and I've not had it go from high to low yet while in my pocket.


----------



## Grizzman

Is anybody running KeepPower 2000 mAh 18500s in an Oveready bored Charlie?


----------



## RI Chevy

I run Sanyo 18500's. Excellent cells.
Unprotected.


----------



## Grizzman

You're running naked cells in series in a Charlie?


----------



## RI Chevy

Yup. 9P too. No issues at all.


----------



## Grizzman

I'm not saying it won't work. In fact it should be completely safe with an SHO or M91. 

I consider an M61 or AVS in this situation far from ideal. 

What capacity do the Sanyo cells have?


----------



## RI Chevy

I can't remember. I got them from Fasttech about 2 years ago. These cells are great.


----------



## INFRNL

From what i can see, the sanyo 18500 should be 1700mah (UR18500FK), which would be the same as the keeppower 1700's

From looking the Keeppower 2000mah are panasonic's. (NCR18500(A)) I believe the panny's come in both protected/ unprotected

I cannot find any place that has the keeppower 2000mah's Maybe fastech or the like, but not sure. Even the panny's don't seem to be available from many places


----------



## Grizzman

INFRNL said:


> From what i can see, the sanyo 18500 should be 1700mah (UR18500FK), which would be the same as the keeppower 1700's
> 
> From looking the Keeppower 2000mah are panasonic's. (NCR18500(A)) I believe the panny's come in both protected/ unprotected
> 
> I cannot find any place that has the keeppower 2000mah's Maybe fastech or the like, but not sure. Even the panny's don't seem to be available from many places



Thanks for the info.


----------



## roger-roger

I'm just starting reading up on the Alpha. So far I haven't found any lower intensity (∽200) options.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I love the Prometheus clip and I love the Alpha but I didn't like them together. While it's a great light the Alpha hasn't stuck around in my EDC rotation. Part of the problem is that the tailcap is about as long as a Bravo/Charlie tail while the body is very short. This means any clip that attaches between the tail and body will be midship and cause the light to ride waaaay too high in the pocket to work the way I carry a light. Great light but not well suited to carry for me. I probably won't ever part with the Alpha but lately I have been considering moving over to one of my long guns for use a WML.

The Prometheus clip does rock. I have three of them, two on my Bravo's and one my Charlie. Great stuff!


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Does anyone double up on the same light but one with standard bezel and one crenellated? I know they swap out but one whole light of each would be cool.


----------



## Grizzman

If two Elzettas have the same clips and optics, then the bezel can be used to easily identify a bored one from a stock one.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Grizzman said:


> If two Elzettas have the same clips and optics, then the bezel can be used to easily identify a bored one from a stock one.



No clue what this means, the bezel tells you whether it's an Oveready bored or a regular Elzetta?? I don't get it.

Anyway guess what Grizz, finally took your advice and ordered my first ever Malkoff!!! Went with a cool white Hound Dog Super! I will be going to Colorado this weekend to visit family and I'm hoping the shipping is fast so I can bring both the Elzetta and the Malkoff!! I'm starting to really appreciate the niche of durability and potted electronics. Man will a Charlie be Next?


----------



## INFRNL

BeastFlashlight said:


> No clue what this means, the bezel tells you whether it's an Oveready bored or a regular Elzetta?? I don't get it.
> 
> Anyway guess what Grizz, finally took your advice and ordered my first ever Malkoff!!! Went with a cool white Hound Dog Super! I will be going to Colorado this weekend to visit family and I'm hoping the shipping is fast so I can bring both the Elzetta and the Malkoff!! I'm starting to really appreciate the niche of durability and potted electronics. Man will a Charlie be Next?



I think what grizz was saying is that if you had a bored bravo and standard non bored bravo having 2 different bezels would allow you to easily tell which is which.


Malkoff is very quick. I can't recall, they either shipped the same day or next day and sent it priority. I got my malkoffs saturday. I would have to look to see when i ordered. Ok, I think i ordered late wed and received on sat.

I live in Colorado, where does your family live, Denver area? Enjoy your visit and stay out of the mountains unless you want to go skiing, snowboarding, or snow mobiling. Guess you could go hunting if you wanted. Anyway, have a good trip. You should enjoy your new lights.

I know this is the elzetta thread but tha super hound dog is amazing, especially at long distance but also great at shorter distances. You can find good info in the 2 malkoff threads.

I'm out of town now but my bored bravo should be to my house this week. Took oveready like 3 days just to get it shipped


----------



## Grizzman

INFRNL interpreted my post correctly. 

My odd post was a reply to a post that seems to have been deleted....or I answered in the wrong thread.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Ok it totally makes sense now, good idea. Yes it will be in the greater Denver area!



INFRNL said:


> Malkoff is very quick.



That's great I hope it does show up in time!


----------



## BeastFlashlight

I've never had a light before where the clicky in back does not literally click, my AVS Bravo does not click, both the feel of a click nor the sound. I have the High Low switch, is this normal?


----------



## Grizzman

Not only is it normal, Elzetta onsiders it a "feature". I consider the tailcap to be outstanding, but not due to it's silence.


----------



## the0dore3524

BeastFlashlight said:


> I've never had a light before where the clicky in back does not literally click, my AVS Bravo does not click, both the feel of a click nor the sound. I have the High Low switch, is this normal?



Yes that is completely normal. Shame the same cannot be said for my Alpha. Thing makes a crazy loud click compared to my Bravo. Even more annoying is the flickering issues that accompany it; Elzetta neglected to replace it when I sent it in [emoji20]


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Ok great! I thought it might be broken.


----------



## INFRNL

There is a video on the elzetta site that talks about the ninja silent clicky. You should check the videos out when you get a chance.

Glad it arrived, with plenty of time to spare! I know you are addicted to vinhs lights but i hope you enjoy and appreciate what the elzetta and you incoming malkoffs are all about.

Keep us posted


----------



## BeastFlashlight

INFRNL said:


> There is a video on the elzetta site that talks about the ninja silent clicky. You should check the videos out when you get a chance.
> 
> Glad it arrived, with plenty of time to spare! I know you are addicted to vinhs lights but i hope you enjoy and appreciate what the elzetta and you incoming malkoffs are all about.
> 
> Keep us posted



Yes this thing feels like a German tank. I look into the lens and the durability looks off the charts, like I can roll it down 10 stories of concrete steps no problem. Can't wait to feel how solid the Malkoff feels too. I think I always get fooled by close up pictures I always think they are bigger. Couldn't believe how small the Bravo was, and I look at the picture of the Malkoff Hound Dog Super on the product page and I swear I have an image of holding a baseball bat it looks so big. I bet the Malkoff turns out to only be as big as how big I thought the AVS Bravo was going to be. So I'm probably off that I first didn't want the Hound Super because I thought it looked huge (for only having 1350 lumens), it's probably not that big.


----------



## neutralwhite

Why didn't they replace ?....
I think Dave even mentions in one of his video clips about the silence of the click!.



the0dore3524 said:


> Yes that is completely normal. Shame the same cannot be said for my Alpha. Thing makes a crazy loud click compared to my Bravo. Even more annoying is the flickering issues that accompany it; Elzetta neglected to replace it when I sent it in [emoji20]


----------



## INFRNL

Yeah they look much bigger in the pics than they really are. I thought the same as you till they arrived. I haven't seen the bravo yet but it should be at my house waiting for me.


----------



## vadimax

BeastFlashlight said:


> I've never had a light before where the clicky in back does not literally click, my AVS Bravo does not click, both the feel of a click nor the sound. I have the High Low switch, is this normal?



Let me guess: do you depress the button firmly enough? It is very stiff. If you don't press it enough you will end up with momentary only.

Another point has been mentioned already: the click is very smooth, barely heard. But you definitely may feel it with a finger.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

vadimax said:


> Let me guess: do you depress the button firmly enough? It is very stiff. If you don't press it enough you will end up with momentary only.
> 
> Another point has been mentioned already: the click is very smooth, barely heard. But you definitely may feel it with a finger.



I'm actually pressing it hard enough and it's operation is fine, but I had the thought that it was broken and would not last long, was thinking 'Where's the click, this switch will be done in a week' lol. 



INFRNL said:


> Yeah they look much bigger in the lics tgan they really are. I thought the same as you till they arrived. I haven't seen the bravo yet but it should be at my house waiting for me.



Do a lot of Elzetta owners tend to also be Malkoff and Surefire owners, or not really? I'm assuming those 3 are in a durability class far above all the rest, and I was thinking that maybe Elzetta owners are durability lovers that dabble in all 3 brands.


----------



## the0dore3524

BeastFlashlight said:


> I'm actually pressing it hard enough and it's operation is fine, but I had the thought that it was broken and would not last long, was thinking 'Where's the click, this switch will be done in a week' lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Do a lot of Elzetta owners tend to also be Malkoff and Surefire owners, or not really? I'm assuming those 3 are in a durability class far above all the rest, and I was thinking that maybe Elzetta owners are durability lovers that dabble in all 3 brands.



HDS all the way here. They are just so solid and sophisticated. All three of my SF lights have had issues in some way or another (Titan A broke after two-feet drop onto concrete, SF Fury sometimes has mode issues...high will come on when the light is bobbed up and down, and blew out the lens on my G2). I have owned a Malkoff, though, and loved it - definitely very durable. Regarding Elzetta, my Alpha has had its share of issues but I am a fan of the Bravo. Definitely one of my toughest lights.


----------



## neutralwhite

Bravo for me too!.



the0dore3524 said:


> HDS all the way here. They are just so solid and sophisticated. All three of my SF lights have had issues in some way or another (Titan A broke after two-feet drop onto concrete, SF Fury sometimes has mode issues...high will come on when the light is bobbed up and down, and blew out the lens on my G2). I have owned a Malkoff, though, and loved it - definitely very durable. Regarding Elzetta, my Alpha has had its share of issues but I am a fan of the Bravo. Definitely one of my toughest lights.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Ok HDS is on the durability list too. I checked them out, not for me but just a personal preference, for me the AVS output is bare minimum lumen output, so instead of going lower output like an HDS i went higher with the Hound Dog Super.

Ugh there are like 3,000 posts in here I'll never find it so I'll just ask, I came across a post the other day about a something that holds 2 CR123s and goes directly into the flashlight, can't remember where I saw it, can someone post it please? Yeah I notice that 2 CR123s do fit loose in my AVS Bravo, when I bang it I can hear the cells jiggle everytime. I know it's just an OCD thing but I would like a tighter fit for CR123s.


----------



## Slumber

BeastFlashlight said:


> Yeah I notice that 2 CR123s do fit loose in my AVS Bravo, when I bang it I can hear the cells jiggle everytime. I know it's just an OCD thing but I would like a tighter fit for CR123s.



Oveready sells delrin battery sleeves that will reduce rattle if your light is bored for 18650 or for running AA's in a 3xCR123 light. 
If your light has a stock battery tube and the little bit of rattle bothers you (it bothers me too), wrap the cells with a small piece paper with a "reward if found" note and it will tighten up the fit.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Got it, thanks Slumber Pass


----------



## Johnnyh

Some people use a 20$ bill in there for emergency cash!


----------



## flashy bazook

BeastFlashlight said:


> I'm actually pressing it hard enough and it's operation is fine, but I had the thought that it was broken and would not last long, was thinking 'Where's the click, this switch will be done in a week' lol.
> 
> Do a lot of Elzetta owners tend to also be Malkoff and Surefire owners, or not really? I'm assuming those 3 are in a durability class far above all the rest, and I was thinking that maybe Elzetta owners are durability lovers that dabble in all 3 brands.



You are very correct.

And as others said you can add the HDS here in this category.

Plus I would say Oveready and Peak products.

Personally I have some from all these 6 categories, although I should say from the Surefires I have the older types and generally modded (with Malkoff or other drop-ins, other tailcaps, etc.).

The newer Surefires have given up moddability and compatibility, so they are more "one-off" types of flashlight. You kind of buy it and use it "as-is", for as long as it lasts or for as long as you like using it, then you sort of have to give it away or sell it, you can't improve it and keep using it.


----------



## archimedes

BeastFlashlight said:


> .... Do a lot of Elzetta owners tend to also be Malkoff and Surefire owners, or not really? I'm assuming those 3 are in a durability class far above all the rest, and I was thinking that maybe Elzetta owners are durability lovers that dabble in all 3 brands.





flashy bazook said:


> You are very correct.
> 
> And as others said you can add the HDS here in this category.
> 
> Plus I would say Oveready and Peak products.
> 
> Personally I have some from all these 6 categories, although I should say from the Surefires I have the older types and generally modded (with Malkoff or other drop-ins, other tailcaps, etc.)....



Yes, for durability, I have found Malkoff to be the best of the best.

Peak are very very tough, but some might say not quite as "refined" .... They work for me, though, and I have lots of these.

HDS are solid. Most of mine are older versions, but it is a point of pride that they continuously work to make these ever tougher.

Surefire .... I have only vintage hosts, and mostly powered by Malkoff 

Elzetta are super-tough, but the tactile switch feedback, tailcap thread pitch, sandpaper-y anodizing, and overall design style are just not what I prefer.

I only have limited experience with Oveready torches, but that may be increasing very soon ...


----------



## BeastFlashlight

archimedes said:


> Yes, for durability, *I have found Malkoff to be the best of the best.*


Interesting! Weight has to factor in too. HDS are very small lights so they might hold up better against a big Malkoff even if all things are equal durability wise. I imaging a Charlie would fail faster than an Alpha if dropped off the same 5 story building (again because of weight/mass). But it's interesting you say Malkoff because they might actually be the biggest.


----------



## flashy bazook

BeastFlashlight said:


> Interesting! Weight has to factor in too. HDS are very small lights so they might hold up better against a big Malkoff even if all things are equal durability wise. I imaging a Charlie would fail faster than an Alpha if dropped off the same 5 story building (again because of weight/mass). But it's interesting you say Malkoff because they might actually be the biggest.



True for the HDS, but if you are comparing Malkoff and Elzetta on physical characteristics, I find the Elzetta's (because they are so "tank-like") to be quite heavy. So although they are fine on physical size, you may be surprised how heavy they are to carry around.

Remember the Malkoffs (depending on which one) can be used in smaller sizes, there are 1xCR123A primary and 1x18500 bodies out there which are smaller than the standard 2xCR123A primary Elzetta's.


----------



## vadimax

BeastFlashlight said:


> I'm actually pressing it hard enough and it's operation is fine, but I had the thought that it was broken and would not last long, was thinking 'Where's the click, this switch will be done in a week'.



This has been done with intent. A loud switch "crack" in a tactical situation may have very depressing consequences


----------



## BeastFlashlight

vadimax said:


> This has been done with intent. A loud switch "crack" in a tactical situation may have very depressing consequences



That makes total sense I didn't even think of that, my worst tactical situations are software issues at work lol


----------



## bykfixer

With the Elzetta switch you "feel" for the click.

Easier said than done at first due to the soft rubber cover, but with practice you 'feel' something similar to a 'knuckle crack' if you know what I mean. 

You may also notice how far you have to press the button into the switch before you feel it... compared to some lights it feels like it's a lot more 'stroke' required. But for tactical (not tacti-cool) lights it's fairly common. It allows for error free signaling and stealth movements. 

Hopefully you'll never need to use the feature but it's reassuring to know it is there.


----------



## LightTheDark

bykfixer said:


> With the Elzetta switch you "feel" for the click.
> 
> Easier said than done at first due to the soft rubber cover, but with practice you 'feel' something similar to a 'knuckle crack' if you know what I mean.
> 
> You may also notice how far you have to press the button into the switch before you feel it... compared to some lights it feels like it's a lot more 'stroke' required. But for tactical (not tacti-cool) lights it's fairly common. It allows for error free signaling and stealth movements.
> 
> Hopefully you'll never need to use the feature but it's reassuring to know it is there.



First of all I love my elzetta. Any more lights I buy will be elzetta.

That said, you guys talking about silent clickys, are they really truly almost silent? 

I recall opening the light the first time and my wife and I were both amazed how silent it was. A few days later I though "hmm this seems loud" and compared to an old four-sevens, it was almost as loud. I didn't figure something would break and cause that, so until now chalked it up to my imagination of how silent it started. Should it actually be noticeably silent? Has anyone had a clicky get louder?


Edit: ok I just reviewed their blog and something must be broken. Dave's light is nearly silent but mine sounds like a 4seven. Glad they have good service at least - will email Wade.


----------



## the0dore3524

I don't know if it's possible, but I also feel like my clicky got louder. Weird...


----------



## Slightchance

I haven't noticed to be honest. Though my different switches are all different levels of loudness. And all of them are quieter than my MD2. 

My alpha (with high/low) is the loudest and also the one I have had the longest, a little over a year. Then my bravo/charlie high/low and then my Bones. My Bones is very quiet and I have used it a fair bit the past few months. My bravo/charlie high/low was bought at the same time and barely used.

Just to be clear, I would say my MD2 sounds like a pen clicking and my Alpha is close to the same level. My Bravo/charlie clicky sounds like a muffled version of a pen clicking and I can hardly hear my bones at all.

I don't know how they achieved the "slient" click but it could be possible they wear in/out. 

I will try and keep an eye, ear really, on mine and see if I notice any change.


----------



## Slumber

In my experience with Elzettas, the switches do get less silent with use. I think it's normal honestly and they never seem too loud.


----------



## roger-roger

Re: Tailcap switch

Now that I've finally replaced my long lost 6p (yay!), its switch will again be the one I will compare all others to. 

Can you reliably use the thumb joint, as opposed to the thumb tip, with the Elzetta Rotary Tailcap? 

I'm guessing the silent (touchy, feely) Click Tailcap requires use of the thumb tip?


----------



## Slumber

It's a proud switch so you can use your thumb joint. That is also my preferred method.


----------



## roger-roger

Thanks!


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Wow I just received my backup flood lens and backup standard bezel for my AVS bored Bravo. This thing is great I've actually just demoted the throw lens to backup. And I can go either way with the crenellated or standard bezel both look great when they're on. Just switched from throw & crenellated to flood & standard. This flood lens is a great bedside light it's like turning a light switch on it lights the whole room.


----------



## neutralwhite

Some Elzetta stuff for sale;

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Prometheus-Lights-Black-PVD-Clip-for-Elzetta-!

also a Bones!.


----------



## roger-roger

With an N+1-1 inventory goal, a slot has recently opened up for another tactical light, although still undecided as to the end purpose it will serve (indoors, outdoors).

Question: On a Bravo AVS set up and other than ability to recharge, what does the 18650 bring to the table versus 2 x CR123a? If I'm not mistaken this will probably have to do with light intensity, duration, and drop down curve?


----------



## Slightchance

Yes, check out flashlightguide.com's website for a review of a bored Bravo to see a very well done chart that shows lumens and runtime using several different batteries.

Essentially the light won't be quite as bright, but will run for a longer time. 

However, primary cells will be more durable/reliable than most, if not all to my meager knowledge, rechargeable cells. I typically keep primary cells in important lights and rechargeable in general use.

You may be interested in the Bones model. It is bored for 18mm cells and is cheaper but the head cannot be removed.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Slumber Pass said:


> Oveready sells delrin battery sleeves that will reduce rattle if your light is bored for 18650 or for running AA's in a 3xCR123 light.



Very nice!!!! Just received the sleeve today from Oveready for using CR123s in my Bored AVS Bravo, no more jiggling at all!!



roger-roger said:


> Question: On a Bravo AVS set up and other than ability to recharge, what does the 18650 bring to the table versus 2 x CR123a? If I'm not mistaken this will probably have to do with light intensity, duration, and drop down curve?



Saving money because you just recharge, instead of constantly buying new batteries would be first advantage in my book.


----------



## roger-roger

Slightchance said:


> Yes, check out flashlightguide.com's website for a review of a bored Bravo to see a very well done chart that shows lumens and runtime using several different batteries.
> 
> Essentially the light won't be quite as bright, but will run for a longer time.
> 
> However, primary cells will be more durable/reliable than most, if not all to my meager knowledge, rechargeable cells. I typically keep primary cells in important lights and rechargeable in general use.
> 
> You may be interested in the Bones model. It is bored for 18mm cells and is cheaper but the head cannot be removed.




Thanks for the link. Analyzing my overall usage, I actually don't see much need to keep an 18650 light on line. Sticking with primary cells in this case best fits my intended need. 

Since we live in a hurricane zone, I maintain a decent inventory of primary cells, and that entails periodic usage and replacement. The addition of a 2-3 cell light fits into that overall plan, I think. 

Now to decide on Alpha or Bravo/Charlie for first purchase, considering initial evaluation will affect the second purchase.


----------



## bykfixer

The new Alpha is impressive R-R.

It's been reported the flicker is still an issue in some of the hi/lo tail csps. I bought a single setting one and versus the 315 version the new 415 is a much more useful general purpose light with notable improvement in throw while still being good for close quarter action. 

Cannot speak for the Bravo or Charlie because I liked the Bones instead.


----------



## Slightchance

I personally love the Alpha, though some have had issues with theirs, but it is designed for close ranges. I think it is perfect for use alongside a pistol or on a long gun for self defense. Or as a backup/2nd light to complementary light.

Edit: I have the older version Alpha

Though lately I have been carrying a Bravo with a M61n in it because it has more reach and I live in the country.

The AVS head has much more reach while still having excellent spill. I use a Charlie as my nightstand light and it is a monster inside and outside. The Bravo isn't too far behind either to be honest. 

Then of course there are flood lenses and red lenses available. I haven't used them because I think the beam pattern is perfect for general use.

I personally would buy a Bravo first and also pick up a head for Malkoff drop-ins. With the right drop-in the Bravo can do what the Alpha can and more IF form factor isn't critical. You can do the same with the 3 cell body, but 3 cells aren't really pocket friendly to me.


----------



## Johnnyh

The Bravo with AVS head and a high/low tail cap is a great light. According to Elzetta (and I have no reason to doubt them) it'll put out 15 lumens in low mode for 60 hours on cr123 primaries. With a good stock of primaries you've got a lot of usable light for many days if power goes down during one of those hurricanes. And it's built to withstand hard punishment. Seriously tough. I have a another Bravo that I use with a low profile bezel and a malkoff M61N and this is the one I carry around the most. Also for your consideration-in the hand, the Charlie feels like it could be a whole weapon unto itself! Sort of like a kubaton with 900 lumens!


----------



## neutralwhite

So very correct!, especially the Charlie lol.



Johnnyh said:


> The Bravo with AVS head and a high/low tail cap is a great light. According to Elzetta (and I have no reason to doubt them) it'll put out 15 lumens in low mode for 60 hours on cr123 primaries. With a good stock of primaries you've got a lot of usable light for many days if power goes down during one of those hurricanes. And it's built to withstand hard punishment. Seriously tough. I have a another Bravo that I use with a low profile bezel and a malkoff M61N and this is the one I carry around the most. Also for your consideration-in the hand, the Charlie feels like it could be a whole weapon unto itself! Sort of like a kubaton with 900 lumens!


----------



## etc

the0dore3524 said:


> I don't know if it's possible, but I also feel like my clicky got louder. Weird...



Twisty. The best and the original.


----------



## roger-roger

Lots of well considered advice, thanks all. Decided to take the first baby step from my current nightstand light, an M61NL equipped 6P. Just ordered an Alpha A111 with smooth bezel, rotary tailcap, standard lens. 

Came close to specifying the flood lens, it being closer to ideal (I'd guess) for the strict parameters of my intended use, but the standard lens gives more flexibility so I went with that for now.

I now feel to have come full circle having lost an old reliable 6P quite a long time ago, and having spent over 6 mo experimenting with a number of consumer type lights. Expectations are simple at this point, but high.

Cheers


----------



## bykfixer

Hope you never need it Roger, but at 2am the Alpha makes for a dam-fine David vs Goliath tool... you being David.

Much brighter than the NL, but I think you'll find the tint and profile familiar to that drop in.


----------



## roger-roger

bykfixer said:


> Hope you never need it Roger, but at 2am the Alpha makes for a dam-fine David vs Goliath tool... you being David.
> 
> Much brighter than the NL, but I think you'll find the tint and profile familiar to that drop in.





Thanks. Definitely looking forward to it.


----------



## kyhunter1

Finally picked up my first elzetta. Its an Alpha and clamped onto my 870. Needed a single cell light as the 6P and m61 combo I was using ended up with alot of cr123's with crushed buttons from the recoil. The guys at elzetta assured me this problem will no longer exist. Its small, bright, neutral tint, and tough as nails. Very tempted to get a charlie with the AVS and flood lens now.


----------



## Johnnyh

kyhunter1 said:


> Finally picked up my first elzetta. Its an Alpha and clamped onto my 870. Needed a single cell light as the 6P and m61 combo I was using ended up with alot of cr123's with crushed buttons from the recoil. The guys at elzetta assured me this problem will no longer exist. Its small, bright, neutral tint, and tough as nails. Very tempted to get a charlie with the AVS and flood lens now.



The Charlie AVS flood combo is one heck of a room lighter for sure. The optic they use is just brilliant at creating a big amount of uniformly distributed neutral light.


----------



## roger-roger

kyhunter1 said:


> Finally picked up my first elzetta. Its an Alpha and clamped onto my 870. Needed a single cell light as the 6P and m61 combo I was using ended up with alot of cr123's with crushed buttons from the recoil. The guys at elzetta assured me this problem will no longer exist. Its small, bright, neutral tint, and tough as nails. Very tempted to get a charlie with the AVS and flood lens now.




What ranges are you evaluating for? Indoor use? I like your attitude Re: the AVS. 




P.S. This in an email, just now. That would be the main facility next to the airport.



> Arrived at USPS Destination FacilityHONOLULU, HI 96820February 17, 2017 6:55 pm


----------



## Johnnyh

Hey kyhunter, if you do go for the AVS Charlie w/flood, maybe spring the extra ten bucks on the standard optic? They easily swap out in a few seconds. (If your anything like me, you'll end up wanting it just to have the option and have to pay more shipping to get it!) [emoji57]


----------



## kyhunter1

Would get both optics, but will use the flood most of the time. Would not be using it for a weapon light. For roger's question, it is my home defense weapon. It gets occasional range time. Outdoors at an old reclaim mine site not far from home.


----------



## mckeand13

kyhunter1 said:


> Finally picked up my first elzetta. Its an Alpha and clamped onto my 870. Needed a single cell light as the 6P and m61 combo I was using ended up with alot of cr123's with crushed buttons from the recoil. The guys at elzetta assured me this problem will no longer exist. Its small, bright, neutral tint, and tough as nails. Very tempted to get a charlie with the AVS and flood lens now.



I'm not sure why an Elzetta would be any different than a 6P/Malkoff dropin with regards to battery crushing. They both have springs at each end of the battery stack.

What reasoning did Elzetta give you other than "we're better".


----------



## bykfixer

mckeand13 said:


> What reasoning did Elzetta give you other than "we're better".



Kinda curious myself. Not that I doubt Elzetta. 

Looking at the spring shape with a 6P and an Alpha they look similar at the negative end. Perhaps the Elzetta spring being softer to compress plays a role? Perhaps 1 cell vs 2 keeps the pressure more equally distributed? Perhaps the inside diameter of the Alpha plays a role not allowing the cell to squish like the slightly oversized 6P? 
A good shake can make the fabled battery rattle noise in my 6P, but the cell in my Alpha is nice n snug.


----------



## roger-roger

Is this an Alpha rotary cap feature? Looking at the cap in front of you, from 12:00 (fully tightened, light on) to 8:00 (loosened), momentary on can be enabled by pushing the cap not the button. The cap moves *across* its threads in and out close to 1mm. 

With my grip I can feel it moving under the index finger.


----------



## bykfixer

I asked that about the hi-lo roger and they said "yes". 
I noticed using what you cite you could blast a short burst of hi output. 

I had 2 at the time. 1 did it but the other did not. They said "it will in time". I gifted it so don't know if that ever occured.

When carrying underhanded (what-ever you call that) you can pull it towards the heel of your hand to activate it.


----------



## tech25

mckeand13 said:


> I'm not sure why an Elzetta would be any different than a 6P/Malkoff dropin with regards to battery crushing. They both have springs at each end of the battery stack.
> 
> What reasoning did Elzetta give you other than "we're better".



Maybe comparing the alpha with one battery to a 6p with two, there wouldn't be one battery hitting against the other?


----------



## roger-roger

bykfixer said:


> I asked that about the hi-lo roger and they said "yes".
> I noticed using what you cite you could blast a short burst of hi output.
> 
> I had 2 at the time. 1 did it but the other did not. They said "it will in time". I gifted it so don't know if that ever occured.
> 
> When carrying underhanded (what-ever you call that) you can pull it towards the heel of your hand to activate it.




Interesting feature, thanks.


----------



## mckeand13

roger-roger said:


> Is this an Alpha rotary cap feature? Looking at the cap in front of you, from 12:00 (fully tightened, light on) to 8:00 (loosened), momentary on can be enabled by pushing the cap not the button. The cap moves *across* its threads in and out close to 1mm.
> 
> With my grip I can feel it moving under the index finger.



Elzetta likes to call this a "feature" but it's really just axial slop in the threads. 

Not consistent, not repeatable, not a feature in my books.


----------



## kyhunter1

For those interested, they never gave specific info on how elzetta's would be better than the 6P/malkoff on battery crushing. They just assured me it would not be a problem with Elzetta's. After I get some range time on the alpha, I will let everybody know how it does.


----------



## bykfixer

mckeand13 said:


> Elzetta likes to call this a "feature" but it's really just axial slop in the threads.
> 
> Not consistent, not repeatable, not a feature in my books.



I can get my alpha to flash to high every time I try to by just squashing the tailcap with a broad area of my thumb against the light in cigar or overhand grip every time. Or pulling it against the heel of my hand when carrying it under hand grip. 
Just takes practice on locating the 'sweet spot' when swapping out a battery. But a pair of markings on the body with a paint pen solved that.


----------



## roger-roger

roger-roger said:


> Is this an Alpha rotary cap feature? Looking at the cap in front of you, from 12:00 (fully tightened, light on) to 8:00 (loosened), momentary on can be enabled by pushing the cap not the button. The cap moves *across* its threads in and out close to 1mm.
> 
> With my grip I can feel it moving under *(pinching)* the index finger.





mckeand13 said:


> Elzetta likes to call this a "feature" but it's really just axial slop in the threads.
> 
> Not consistent, not repeatable*, *not a feature in my books.




That was my impression, in terms of repeatability. A bit put offish to a certain extent--especially since I was more than ready to throw down for a Bravo AVS. Its left me undecided at the moment.

(My bold above in the quote, adding more to the description.)


----------



## Slightchance

Every twisty tailcap I have ever used has done that. A couple different Surefires some misc brands and my Elzettas.

Is it a feature? Idk about that, but I have yet to use a twist/momentary light that doesn't have varying levels of sensitivity based on how tightened down it is.

I just adjust the tailcap to the level of sensitivity I want and forget about it.

I always thought it just came with the territory so to speak.


----------



## roger-roger

roger-roger said:


> Is this an Alpha rotary cap feature? Looking at the cap in front of you, from 12:00 (fully tightened, light on) to 8:00 (loosened), momentary on can be enabled by pushing the cap not the button. The cap moves *across* its threads in and out close to 1mm.
> 
> With my grip I can feel it moving under the index finger.





Slightchance said:


> Every twisty tailcap I have ever used has done that. A couple different Surefires some misc brands and my Elzettas.
> 
> Is it a feature? Idk about that, but I have yet to use a twist/momentary light that doesn't have varying levels of sensitivity based on how tightened down it is.
> 
> I just adjust the tailcap to the level of sensitivity I want and forget about it.
> 
> I always thought it just came with the territory so to speak.




I haven't been very clear. Varying sensitivity isn't what I'm trying to discuss. In this particular light:

- pressing the tailcap, pushes it inward towards the body, with close to 1mm travel
- descriptively, I can feel the gap between tailcap/body *start* to pinch the finger as the tailcap travels towards the body
- momentary on can be enabled without pushing the rubber switch, but by pushing the tailcap alone towards the body
- With the tailcap loosened 15° from full tight, I can press the edges of the tailcap outside the rubber switch, to use momentary on
- You can hear metal to metal contact when the tailcap (or the rubber switch) is pressed towards, and stops out on body
- in this case, basically the rubber switch is redundant


Do your Elzetta lights do the same?


----------



## Slightchance

I think I might not have been completely clear either.

I have one momentary/twisty tailcap from Elzetta and one from Surefire and they both behave exactly like yours.

The entire tailcap moves slightly and I can activate the light if it is tightened down enough without pressing the button. I can also turn the light on by pressing just the side of the tailcap horizontally after tightening it down so far but before constant on.

I have never been pinched, but my tailcaps make that motion. I honestly thought that was just how momentary/twisty tailcaps were supposed to work. On my home defense rifle, I usually keep the tailcap sensitive so that anywhere I touch it the light turns on. When I carry one I loosen it to where only a press on the button turns the light on.

Elzetta only has one twisty/momentary tailcap and it works on all their lights except for the Bones (or a bored Bravo/Charlie.)


----------



## roger-roger

roger-roger said:


> Is this an Alpha rotary cap feature? Looking at the cap in front of you, from 12:00 (fully tightened, light on) to 8:00 (loosened), momentary on can be enabled by pushing the cap not the button. The cap moves *across* its threads in and out close to 1mm.
> 
> With my grip I can feel it moving under the index finger.





Slightchance said:


> I think I might not have been completely clear either.
> 
> I have one momentary/twisty tailcap from Elzetta and one from Surefire and they both behave exactly like yours.
> 
> The entire tailcap moves slightly and I can activate the light if it is tightened down enough without pressing the button. I can also turn the light on by pressing just the side of the tailcap horizontally after tightening it down so far but before constant on.
> 
> I have never been pinched, but my tailcaps make that motion. I honestly thought that was just how momentary/twisty tailcaps were supposed to work. On my home defense rifle, I usually keep the tailcap sensitive so that anywhere I touch it the light turns on. When I carry one I loosen it to where only a press on the button turns the light on.
> 
> Elzetta only has one twisty/momentary tailcap and it works on all their lights except for the Bones (or a bored Bravo/Charlie.)





Thanks, you've basically answered my question. 

I used the term "pinch" btw, to help describe the action, not that indicate pinching.


----------



## Grizzman

If the threads were a tight fit, then one-handed operation would be much more difficult, if not impossible. I'm quite certain that the threads and tail cap are operating exactly as they were designed.


----------



## scs

Grizzman said:


> If the threads were a tight fit, then one-handed operation would be much more difficult, if not impossible. I'm quite certain that the threads and tail cap are operating exactly as they were designed.



The threads could be a tighter fit, like those on a clicky, so the tailcap wouldn't travel longitudinally and displace laterally to the extent described. A thick o-ring, via friction, would make one handed twisting of the tail cap for constant on difficult or impossible. Proper fitting, or in elzetta's case, tighter fitting threads would not cause operation problems. If they did, then the threads would be considered too tight and not properly designed.


----------



## roger-roger

roger-roger said:


> Is this an Alpha rotary cap feature? Looking at the cap in front of you, from 12:00 (fully tightened, light on) to 8:00 (loosened), momentary on can be enabled by pushing the cap not the button. The cap moves *across* its threads in and out close to 1mm.
> 
> With my grip I can feel it moving under the index finger.





scs said:


> The threads could be a tighter fit, like those on a clicky, so the tailcap wouldn't travel longitudinally and displace laterally to the extent described. A thick o-ring, via friction, would make one handed twisting of the tail cap for constant on difficult or impossible. Proper fitting, or in elzetta's case, tighter fitting threads would not cause operation problems. If they did, then the threads would be considered too tight and not properly designed.




I would tend to agree. I can't say as to whether my individual Alpha rotary, is on the maximum or minimum side of design specification, but despite its functionality it feels sloppy enough to raise concern of wear over time due to metal to metal contact.


----------



## mckeand13

What you're describing is the clearance in the threads. It's a fact of life, there is clearance between internal and external threads. There has to be to accommodate tolerances. If you want nice threads in a "tighter" class you buy a Prometheus light or other nice custom. 

Again, Elzetta likes to describe it as a "feature" but all lights have this same "feature", some more than others.


----------



## roger-roger

roger-roger said:


> Is this an Alpha rotary cap feature? Looking at the cap in front of you, from 12:00 (fully tightened, light on) to 8:00 (loosened), momentary on can be enabled by pushing the cap not the button. The cap moves *across* its threads in and out close to 1mm.
> 
> With my grip I can feel it moving under the index finger.





mckeand13 said:


> What you're describing is the clearance in the threads. It's a fact of life, there is clearance between internal and external threads. There has to be to accommodate tolerances. If you want nice threads in a "tighter" class you buy a Prometheus light or other nice custom.
> 
> Again, Elzetta likes to describe it as a "feature" but all lights have this same "feature", some more than others.




Thanks--I came here for information. Love the light other than the level of looseness in this particular specimen, the only one I have direct experience with. At this time I hope to order another, but I may consider avoiding the rotary cap and probably the high-low


----------



## scs

Generous tolerances, as in the case of the AK47, are sometimes desirable. If it's loose like that by design, and the reasoning behind that design sound, very well. It would be a shame if it were actually a quality issue.


----------



## kyhunter1

Got some range time in this evening. Ran thru several rounds of full power slugs, and a box of field loads. The battery remained in perfect condition, no issues with battery crushing with the single cell alpha on my 870 HD 12 guage. In the past with my old 6P/M61 setup, one of the cells the button would be totally mashed flat, and the other not far from it. That light had a McClicky upgrade and it's spring may have contributed to the problem. Never got around to testing with a stock Z41. 



kyhunter1 said:


> For those interested, they never gave specific info on how elzetta's would be better than the 6P/malkoff on battery crushing. They just assured me it would not be a problem with Elzetta's. After I get some range time on the alpha, I will let everybody know how it does.


----------



## vadimax

By naming that "feature" a "feature" Elzetta contradicts with its own principle of separate functionality in UI: all of a sudden high mode mixes with high-low twist, button press and cap axial/lateral press.

Most likely this comes from an outdated triangle thread profile when most of manufacturers have already switched to rectangular or trapezoid profile. Those are much more precise and wear resistant.


----------



## Modernflame

Looks like I'm about a week late to join the discussion on the silent switches, but I own two Elzetta High/Low tail caps. One is nearly inaudible. The other one is somewhat older and makes about as much sound as the soft press McClicky switches in my Malkoff tail caps. Since I am neither a tactical operator nor a Chuck Norris wannabe, I don't really care about the sound. However, I've often wondered if the gradual erosion of the sound proofing indicates a deeper structural problem that could result in failure. Has anyone ever been left in the dark because of an Elzetta switch failure?


----------



## roger-roger

Modernflame said:


> Looks like I'm about a week late to join the discussion on the silent switches, but I own two Elzetta High/Low tail caps. One is nearly inaudible. The other one is somewhat older and makes about as much sound as the soft press McClicky switches in my Malkoff tail caps. Since I am neither a tactical operator nor a Chuck Norris wannabe, I don't really care about the sound. However, I've often wondered if the gradual erosion of the sound proofing indicates a deeper structural problem that could result in failure. Has anyone ever been left in the dark because of an Elzetta switch failure?




Is that the sound of the switch, or the metal to metal sound of tail cap to barrel?


----------



## Modernflame

roger-roger said:


> Is that the sound of the switch, or the metal to metal sound of tail cap to barrel?



I'm referring to the sound of the switch.


----------



## Modernflame

roger-roger said:


> Is that the sound of the switch, or the metal to metal sound of tail cap to barrel?





Modernflame said:


> I'm referring to the sound of the switch.





vadimax said:


> By naming that "feature" a "feature" Elzetta contradicts with its own principle of separate functionality in UI: all of a sudden high mode mixes with high-low twist, button press and cap axial/lateral press.
> 
> Most likely this comes from an outdated triangle thread profile when most of manufacturers have already switched to rectangular or trapezoid profile. Those are much more precise and wear resistant.



What's more is that the newer, still silent switch can still access momentary high mode while loosened a few degrees off constant high. Meanwhile, the older, louder tail cap must be fully tightened for any access to high whatsoever. If it's loosened even a micron, it will revert to low regardless of the pressure exerted on the switch or the tail cap. Strange?


----------



## Johnnyh

I own and regularly use several Elzettas. Charlie, Bravo, Bored Bravo and a Bones. Charlie has rotary, Bravos have high/low, Bones is simple click switch. My personal experience has been this: The position that the cap has to be in to activate the momentary high mode by pressing laterally on the cap is narrow in range and I've never considered it a "feature" to be used consistently or reliably but it can be done. Some (as mentioned before) mark the cap and body to instantly see where the cap has to be to enable this "feature". Personally, I twist the high/low 1/2 turn out or so to specifically avoid this "feature". I have used the method on the rotary and it works well for momentary on. As far as any sound from the tail cap being "metal to metal"....The threads have a certain tolerance to allow one-handed twisting but they are nowhere near loose enough to cause internal thread slipping/crossing which I assume would be the source of any noise from the cap other than the switch. If this were indeed happening, the threads would probably be toast in short order. I've clicked and twisted these lights hundreds (thousands?) of times and none failed me yet!


----------



## Johnnyh

Modernflame said:


> What's more is that the newer, still silent switch can still access momentary high mode while loosened a few degrees off constant high. Meanwhile, the older, louder tail cap must be fully tightened for any access to high whatsoever. If it's loosened even a micron, it will revert to low regardless of the pressure exerted on the switch or the tail cap. Strange?



Sounds a bit off to me. If you have the inspected the inside of the tail cap and see no obvious problems with the threads/contact, I'd call Elzetta. They are very good about standing behind the product. I bought an older, NOS, ZFL-M60 3-cell off Amazon for my Son and the LED died. He called, they told him to send it in, they returned it within two weeks with a new M60 drop in installed and 3 fresh cr123's to boot. Can't beat that.


----------



## Modernflame

Johnnyh said:


> Sounds a bit off to me. If you have the inspected the inside of the tail cap and see no obvious problems with the threads/contact, I'd call Elzetta. They are very good about standing behind the product. I bought an older, NOS, ZFL-M60 3-cell off Amazon for my Son and the LED died. He called, they told him to send it in, they returned it within two weeks with a new M60 drop in installed and 3 fresh cr123's to boot. Can't beat that.



Nevermind. It's user error. Duh. I have the titanium clip from Dark Sucks plus an O-ring stuffed into the neck of the flashlight between the tail cap and the body. This removes any natural play in the threads and means it has to be fully tightened in order to access high mode. When I remove the clip the switch functions like everyone else's. That said, I also don't consider the momentary high from low mode to be a feature. I just want to be sure my switch is working properly.


----------



## Johnnyh

Good! I have that clip on the Bones, now I think I might put it on the Bravo. I actually like the idea of a smaller amount of twist to engage low mode. Thanks!


----------



## roger-roger

Modernflame said:


> What's more is that the newer, still silent switch can still access momentary high mode while loosened a few degrees off constant high. Meanwhile, the older, louder tail cap must be fully tightened for any access to high whatsoever. If it's loosened even a micron, it will revert to low regardless of the pressure exerted on the switch or the tail cap. Strange?




Not strange. Mine had a completely silent switch due to the fact the cap pressed/depressed before the switch could come into action most of the time. It also flickered occasionally--all this at any point of rotation past fully tightened. 

Btw, this one came with grease completely gunk-ed all over the threading, top to bottom. Is that SOP factory setup? I thought that was strange at first--now perhaps it seems it was used to dampen the threading.


----------



## bykfixer

Like many things in a weapons grade flashlight, Elzetta did not invent some of the features that many casual users may or may not quite understand.

My buddy PK once said "many of my ideas have resulted in the audience throwing hammers at me". What he meant by that was that some of his little tricks placed into designs were seen as flaws by many. The tailcap that moves forward was one of those items. 
But if you read the way Elzetta explains it on their blog it may make more sense. They discuss how some people need to apply pressure from an angle in a hurry, yet a compromised grip does not allow a positive contact to the switch button. So pressing on the tailcap from an angle can result in the light being activated. Or in the hi/lo case a blast of full output of photons... or strobe in the on/strobe tailcap. Perhaps those with smaller fingers. A bit more rotation to loose allows those with larger fingers or perhaps those who are stronger can allow the _feature_ to be utilized in their optimum method.

User 1 may find that starting at 12 o-clock a fully tightened tailcap rotated to 10 o-clock allows the _feature_ to be utilized. User 2 may need to rotate it to say... 9 o-clock. But rotated to 6 o-clock deactivates the _feature_ for both. 

Take a look at the fabled 6P sometime to see my point. There is a mark on the body and a mark on the twisty that when lined up indicate that was SureFires idea of the optimal position for the _feature_ to be utilized. 
If it were not an intended _feature_ then why did PK design the tail cap with that notch? 

For me certain really stiff thread twistys need to be rotated to as little at 11:30 from 12 to utilize the _feature_ and others are soft enough to be twisted as far as 9 o-clock. Some may disagree in what defines a feature, but sometimes a feature is not easy to spot.




The 6P was likely the most innovative light ever back then.
Another unseen feature was rotating the tailcap 360 degrees past the notch activated the lockout feature.


----------



## Tachead

roger-roger said:


> Not strange. Mine had a completely silent switch due to the fact the cap pressed/depressed before the switch could come into action most of the time. It also flickered occasionally--all this at any point of rotation past fully tightened.
> 
> Btw, this one came with grease completely gunk-ed all over the threading, top to bottom. Is that SOP factory setup? I thought that was strange at first--now perhaps it seems it was used to dampen the threading.



The threads on all flashlights, not just Elzetta's, should be thoroughly greased. It greatly lowers wear on the threads and makes for smoother operation. The o-rings should be greased as well to lower wear and maintain a water tight seal.


----------



## Tachead

Good post bykfixer:thumbsup:.


----------



## bykfixer

Tachead said:


> Good post bykfixer:thumbsup:.



Thanks!

Here's a feature in another brand most would not think of as a feature...




Likely seen as a design quirk to make it look cool or just be something different.
But a lot of thought went into angles, shapes, length, width and texture.
I'll let the audience decide if it's a feature, but the designer thought it is.


----------



## Modernflame

What happens if you run two 18350's in an Elzetta Bones? Do you get 650 lumens, 900 lumens, or a Kentucky fried driver?


----------



## kyhunter1

I have the same question. Considering the bones or a charlie avs flood setup.


----------



## Grizzman

bykfixer said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Here's a feature in another brand most would not think of as a feature...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Likely seen as a design quirk to make it look cool or just be something different.
> But a lot of thought went into angles, shapes, length, width and texture.
> I'll let the audience decide if it's a feature, but the designer thought it is.



Is there a hole that goes through the extension? If so, then it's likely for a split ring, or lanyard. Nothing in the photo indicates absolute scale, but the light appears to be pretty small, possibly intended to be attached to a key ring.


I have no idea what would happen if a Bones were run from two 18350s, and I doubt anyone from here is willing to potentially destroy their light to find out.


----------



## Johnnyh

Modernflame said:


> What happens if you run two 18350's in an Elzetta Bones? Do you get 650 lumens, 900 lumens, or a Kentucky fried driver?



Would it be safe to say that the Bones is essentially the same beast as an AVS Bravo, just bored to ~18 mm with a fixed head? IF...big IF..that is the case, Oveready actually recommends 2 18350's for 900 lumens output for use in the (out of stock btw) bored Bravo AVS. That being said, I'll hold off on experimenting on my Bones! Makes me wonder though.


----------



## bykfixer

Grizzman said:


> Is there a hole that goes through the extension? If so, then it's likely for a split ring, or lanyard. Nothing in the photo indicates absolute scale, but the light appears to be pretty small, possibly intended to be attached to a key ring.
> 
> .


Correctumundo.

It comes with a key ring to attach it to your car keys.

The 'feature' is a device meant to inflict pain to a would-be attacker and give the user a couple of seconds to arrive at plan A, B or C. Those trained in the martial arts notice the feature right away, yet the TSA folks would likely think it nothing more than somebodys idea of different. 

Elzetta lights also incorparate features hidden to most. The bezel on the Bones for example to most would be seen as a way to know you left the light on when it's bezel down. Really? Would a weapons grade light maker use a bezel for such a mindless useage when in fact the hand to hand combat role may potentially involve a flashlight being the last viable option? Or perhaps a way in a surprise scenario used as a way to provide a few seconds to impliment plan A B or C? 

In the case of the little light shown or an Elzetta Bones the feature is called "kubatan device". 

So back to the ranch....
Sloppy threads to some is a feature to others.


----------



## Modernflame

Johnnyh said:


> Would it be safe to say that the Bones is essentially the same beast as an AVS Bravo, just bored to ~18 mm with a fixed head? IF...big IF..that is the case, Oveready actually recommends 2 18350's for 900 lumens output for use in the (out of stock btw) bored Bravo AVS. That being said, I'll hold off on experimenting on my Bones! Makes me wonder though.



I have two AVS heads. One is running on an OR bored Charlie body and a pair of 18490's. The other is on a stock Bravo body. I like the Charlie set up very much, but the 18490's run out of juice pretty quick and I often wish I could trade some of the output for more run time. That makes the Bones very attractive. However, it would be less expensive just to get a bored out Bravo body from Oveready. My decision would be easier if I knew whether the Bones actually has AVS technology. It would be nice to have the added versatility, even though my primary interest is to increase run time. I suppose I'll have to just ask Elzetta.


----------



## Johnnyh

Modernflame said:


> I have two AVS heads. One is running on an OR bored Charlie body and a pair of 18490's. The other is on a stock Bravo body. I like the Charlie set up very much, but the 18490's run out of juice pretty quick and I often wish I could trade some of the output for more run time. That makes the Bones very attractive. However, it would be less expensive just to get a bored out Bravo body from Oveready. My decision would be easier if I knew whether the Bones actually has AVS technology. It would be nice to have the added versatility, even though my primary interest is to increase run time. I suppose I'll have to just ask Elzetta.



I would be very interested to know if the Bones is AVS myself. Would indeed add another dimension with the possibility of 900 lumen output.


----------



## Modernflame

Johnnyh said:


> I would be very interested to know if the Bones is AVS myself. Would indeed add another dimension with the possibility of 900 lumen output.



I just emailed them about this. We'll see what happens. I've emailed Elzetta twice before about something else and I've never had a response.


----------



## RI Chevy

If you give them a call you will get an immediate response. I posted about this with email addresses a few months back. I can't remember. Lol


----------



## the0dore3524

Email Wade...I think someone mentioned that a while back and when I called, he was the one that picked up.


----------



## RI Chevy

Yup. Wade. 👍
He works 2nd shift I think. Just couldn't remember the exact email address.


----------



## the0dore3524

maybe [email protected]? I forgot it as well lol


----------



## RI Chevy

That looks about right.


----------



## Modernflame

Ok. I emailed Wade. I'll share the verdict with the group when he responds.


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool. 👍


----------



## the0dore3524

I was thinking about getting some 16650 to pair with my 2-cell lights. Will it work with the M60 module? And what about with the AVS head? Any input would be helpful!


----------



## Slightchance

I use powerkeeper (or is it keeppower?) 16650s without a problem in my Bravo. I don't think I have used it with the m60, but I have used a few m61 modules and the AVS head. I see no reason for the M60 to not work as well.

Edit: The cells I use are called Keeppower.


----------



## Johnnyh

the0dore3524 said:


> I was thinking about getting some 16650 to pair with my 2-cell lights. Will it work with the M60 module? And what about with the AVS head? Any input would be helpful!


I use the 16650 keeppower 2500 in my stock Bravo with Malakoff M60...works great.


----------



## kyhunter1

Talked with elzetta today. The Bones can handle 2x18350. Would be close to 900 lumens but shorter runtime. The output is determined by voltage so it is similar to the avs. They would not say it is exactly the same driver as in the avs. Also, the tailcaps are not interchangeable with the other elzetta lights. The bones version is slightly larger. This allows room for a thicker body than custom bored bodies and still allow 18mm cells. They also do not reccomend rechargeable cells for any serious use when life is on the line. They also discourage 3xrcr123 use as it will risk burning out the driver in the charlie/avs. Not an issue with the bones.


----------



## Modernflame

Regarding the question of the Bones input voltage, I received the following response from Wade at Elzetta:

You’ll be fine with two 18350’s. It won’t hurt anything. 

I hope this helps. 

Thank you,
Wade


----------



## RI Chevy

Cool. Thanks for the updates guys.


----------



## Modernflame

I'm still trying to understand what makes the Bones cheaper to produce. It's got the same emitter, same driver (or at least one that behave the same way), same interchangeable optics, same potted electronics, and the same manufacturing location. It does have the natural gray anodizing instead of black, but how much could that really save? If anything, it seems it would be more expensive to retool their machines to make a flashlight with a slightly larger diameter and a dedicated head with a unique tail cap. If you can live without your low beam, then the Elzetta Bones is seriously tricked out with all of the same battery options as a bored out Bravo from Oveready. And for $145? I'm getting one just as soon as I can convince my wife that I need _another _flashlight!


----------



## neutralwhite

No idea there but Bones is a damn good straightforward light!. 
Tough everyday light!. 



Modernflame said:


> I'm still trying to understand what makes the Bones cheaper to produce. It's got the same emitter, same driver (or at least one that behave the same way), same interchangeable optics, same potted electronics, and the same manufacturing location. It does have the natural gray anodizing instead of black, but how much could that really save? If anything, it seems it would be more expensive to retool their machines to make a flashlight with a slightly larger diameter and a dedicated head with a unique tail cap. If you can live without your low beam, then the Elzetta Bones is seriously tricked out with all of the same battery options as a bored out Bravo from Oveready. And for $145? I'm getting one just as soon as I can convince my wife that I need _another _flashlight!


----------



## bykfixer

Great question.


----------



## RI Chevy

It just has that " Chinese" look about it.


----------



## scout24

If I had to guess, I'd think less machining, (Two less sets of threads, less body detailing.) the different HA Nat coating, and maybe dipping into profit just a bit in the interest of putting out a slightly more "wallet friendly" product. Or, maybe I have no idea. Both are just as likely!


----------



## kyhunter1

Any elzetta will not have a chinese feel. I plan to buy the bones when I can afford.


----------



## RI Chevy

Lol. I said Chinese look. 
The knurling and host style has China clones written all over it. 
It may feel different, but that look. I'm not buying it.


----------



## Johnnyh

Thanks to those guys getting the info on the use of 18350's. I suspected that it was pretty much AVS tech in there. Think I'll try it!


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> If I had to guess, I'd think less machining, (Two less sets of threads, less body detailing.) the different HA Nat coating, and maybe dipping into profit just a bit in the interest of putting out a slightly more "wallet friendly" product. Or, maybe I have no idea. Both are just as likely!



Well put sir. And perhaps some R&D cost had been a bit less by using some similar to Bravo tech. Yeah my first thought was the dipping into profit in hopes of making it back through volume of sales.

I bought mine the week they announced it and the S/N was 11xx. I figure they hoped to sell them more to the general public. It seems like the changes in the Alpha were also aimed more at a general audience. 
The Bones is one you can hand to anybody you love and they'll know exactly what to do. And with the oversized barrel it allows the rechargeable user to have fun too. Nothing fancy, nothing sexy, just old school reliability with a fairly modern output. And the tint is the closest to incan look of any of my LED's as it is somewhere about half-way between a Malkoff W and N.


----------



## Lumencrazy

I understand the heavy duty construction and potted electronics for durability. But has anything changed in the Bravo electronics over the past 5-plus years. The run times, especially on low (running through a resister? really?), seem somewhat ancient.


----------



## peter yetman

Ancient, but simple and reliable. It's the KISS Concept. Also, you always know where the thing switches on.
P


----------



## Lumencrazy

My 30 year-old maglight never failed and is still working.


----------



## Grizzman

No, as far as I know, nothing has changed in the AVS head or high/low tail caps in the last 5 years. This is fine with me.

I previously performed a low mode runtime test, with an 18650, on another manufacturer's light that also uses an old fashioned resister. I got bored after a couple hundred hours, and ended the test. I have not done a similar test with an Elzetta, but that's about to change.

I just put two Surefire CR123s with a resting voltage of 3.18v (not brand new at 3.25v) into an old ZFL-M60 that's got an M61N module and a high/low tailcap. After I return from lunch, I'm going to turn it on. I expect it to still be running when I return from work at about 8:00 pm (6 hours later). I also expect it to still be working when my day ends a few hours after that. A voltage measurement will indicate if it'l run all night, or if I'll continue the test after I wake up.

Lumencrazy, instead of complaining about Elzetta, why don't you take your Elzetta and use it to generate some useful information for the rest of us?


----------



## Lumencrazy

The intent of my question was only this. Given that over these past years there have been tremendous improvements in the efficiency and reliability of most electronic components (just look at the significant and ongoing improvements in LED technology). Is Elzetta keeping up with the times? Would we not like to know that, all things being equal (quality/durability/simplicity etc.), the Bravo now runs 10-15% longer and cooler than the original model. Or is it the exact same light as the original?


----------



## scs

Reliability, improvements, and innovation are not mutually exclusive.
When the current design can't be improved upon or a better alternative for it cannot be found, common sense dictates that it should be kept.
When there is obvious and plenty of room for improvement, we simply hope that designers pursue it, instead of resting on their laurels.
That's all I'm saying, and I think that's what lumencrazy was referring to.


----------



## Grizzman

I was referring to his 30 year old MagLite comment, not his question. 

A 10% increase in run time or output isn't nearly enough to cause me to buy a new ~$100 AVS head. The ones I have now are bright enough, run long enough, and are totally reliable. 

The default drop-in provided by Elzetta is the 235 lumen M60 with XR-E emitter, which was designed over 10 years ago. This by itself should tell you that Elzetta cares little about the bleeding edge of technology.


----------



## scs

Grizzman said:


> I was referring to his 30 year old MagLite comment, not his question.
> 
> A 10% increase in run time or output isn't nearly enough to cause me to buy a new ~$100 AVS head. The ones I have now are bright enough, run long enough, and are totally reliable.
> 
> The default drop-in provided by Elzetta is the 235 lumen M60 with XR-E emitter, which was designed over 10 years ago. This by itself should tell you that Elzetta cares little about the bleeding edge of technology.



And I was referring to this comment of yours: 
"Lumencrazy, instead of complaining about Elzetta, why don't you take your Elzetta and use it to generate some useful information for the rest of us?"


----------



## INFRNL

and the tried and trued ancient tech bravo, send me the pp ady :laughing:


----------



## bykfixer

If Elzetta was into making flashlights to compete in the world of fashion where this weeks light is outdated before it arrives from Asia, they'd be called something like "Z-Fire".

Instead it was named after one of the founders grandmothers. That exudes "sheer competence and wisdom" and not "look how much more modern we are compared to those other folks."

It was not long ago the crowd clamored for 100, then 300, then 500 lumens. And Elzetta meanwhile quietly went about making reliable products than can be depended on in life or death scenarios. Brightest? Most up-to-date? Nope.

Reliable as sunrise in the morning? Yup.
Good enough for me.


----------



## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> If Elzetta was into making flashlights to compete in the world of fashion where this weeks light is outdated before it arrives from Asia, they'd be called something like "Z-Fire".
> 
> Instead it was named after one of the founders grandmothers. That exudes "sheer competence and wisdom" and not "look how much more modern we are compared to those other folks."
> 
> It was not long ago the crowd clamored for 100, then 300, then 500 lumens. And Elzetta meanwhile quietly went about making reliable products than can be depended on in life or death scenarios. Brightest? Most up-to-date? Nope.
> 
> Reliable as sunrise in the morning? Yup.
> Good enough for me.



Well said, sir. I'm not impressed with incremental improvements. It will take a quantum leap forward in technology to replace my Elzettas. And I hope at that time to replace my Elzettas with new Elzettas.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Lumencrazy said:


> My 30 year-old maglight never failed and is still working.



I've had five D-cell Maglites and four failed in the first year. But to be fair the fifth one still works and is used by my mom.


----------



## Grizzman

Lumencrazy said:


> I understand the heavy duty construction and potted electronics for durability. But has anything changed in the Bravo electronics over the past 5-plus years. The run times, especially on low (running through a resister? really?), seem somewhat ancient.



How long do you expect a Bravo with an M61N fed by an 18650 to run on low - 60 hours. 30 hours, or less? 

I agree completely that the resistor'd low mode in ancient technology. How long long would the low mode need to run for it to be equal to a "modern" light? I don't have very many lights with electronic low modes, and all but one of them are programmable and include firefly and moonlight ones also. I've never done a test with them on low, or even seen if one of the outputs are approximately 15 lumens, like the Elzettas.

I'm doing a low mode run time test right now, with a relatively modern XP-G2 M61N drop-in fed by an AW 3400 mAh 18650 cell. No, I'm not using primary CR123s. I only use them in relation to weapons and in vehicles, not when long run time is needed.


----------



## bykfixer

Modernflame said:


> Well said, sir. I'm not impressed with incremental improvements. It will take a quantum leap forward in technology to replace my Elzettas. And I hope at that time to replace my Elzettas with new Elzettas.



It's like those stupid pixel wars with cameras to keep bringing in new customers. That's all fine n good for some. But like flashlights I found one that did a great job for my purposes and stuck with it until something that really made a difference came along. 
I went with a Bones because it has a ton of output and runtime compared to a single setting 6 volt unit I had relied on previously. As a bonus I like the tint better too.


----------



## tab665

i too would like to know if elzetta has made unpublished changes to the emitters. has the output and runtime of the AVS heads been the same since the first release?


----------



## Grizzman

My low mode run time test of a bored Bravo with an M61N fed by a protected AW 3400 mAh 18660 is progressing nicely. 


Current test results are in post #2743.


----------



## the0dore3524

Wow that's quite a long time already. This will be interesting to see play out; thanks for being the one to do this test lol.


----------



## the0dore3524

By the way, I noticed that the spring on my Bravo puts a lot of tension on the 16650...could that possibly damage the battery? I don't want to wear it out or anything like that.


----------



## INFRNL

Grizzman said:


> My low mode run time test of a bored Bravo with an M61N fed by a protected AW 3400 mAh cell has just passed the 48 hour point.
> 
> Output measured in my small 1/2 bath has been reduced by .12 lux from the initial reading, which didn't change during the initial 24 hour period. The DMM indicates that the unloaded voltage of the cell was at 4.035 Volts after 24 hours, and is now 3.919 Volts.
> 
> That was not a typo....after 2 days of continuous use, the cell's charge has been reduced by .27 volts. This test will take a while.
> 
> I may update this post every 24 hours, or maybe just every couple days.



that's insane!!! That cell will self discharge faster than you're burning it


On a side note: i do not think I ever posted it here But about a week ago I came home to my bored bravo, currently running a M361 219b in it with lo-pro head. 

Today, I finally got my order from battery station containing: std avs head w/crenelated bezel, avs flood w/std bzl, and an stock charlie w/hi-lo (since oveready doesn't seem to be doing the charlies) I unboxed everything and used the primaries that came with the charlie just to do a quick look test. I am very impressed with both the flood and std AVS heads so far. Very nice initial tint (haven't compared to any of my other lights yet) they seem neutral/ closer to white side but no blue at all.


----------



## Grizzman

the0dore3524 said:


> By the way, I noticed that the spring on my Bravo puts a lot of tension on the 16650...could that possibly damage the battery? I don't want to wear it out or anything like that.



The spring will scratch the battery's terminal after a while, but I've not had one fail due to it. It is possible for the positive terminal to be crushed due to the pressure, which has happened to a few of my AW 3400 mAh cells. A bit of solder on the terminal will allow it to protrude far enough to make contact with another cell if they're used in series.


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> On a side note: i do not think I ever posted it here But about a week ago I came home to my bored bravo, currently running a M361 219b in it with lo-pro head.
> 
> Today, I finally got my order from battery station containing: std avs head w/crenelated bezel, avs flood w/std bzl, and an stock charlie w/hi-lo (since oveready doesn't seem to be doing the charlies) I unboxed everything and used the primaries that came with the charlie just to do a quick look test. I am very impressed with both the flood and std AVS heads so far. Very nice initial tint (haven't compared to any of my other lights yet) they seem neutral/ closer to white side but no blue at all.



It's great stuff! I also have a couple of AVS heads and both lenses. I think the AVS beam tint is in the 5000K range, although that's just based on my comparison with other lights of a known color temperature. I'm pretty sure I got one of the last bored out Charlie bodies from Oveready before they ran out. I dig it, but the 18490's are really short on run time. I can't get past about 40 minutes before the voltage sags too low and I have to disconnect the unprotected cells. Truthfully, I get annoyed with it sometimes and just run it on primaries. You're better off running your AVS head on your bored out Bravo body on an 18650.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> It's great stuff! I also have a couple of AVS heads and both lenses. I think the AVS beam tint is in the 5000K range, although that's just based on my comparison with other lights of a known color temperature. I'm pretty sure I got one of the last bored out Charlie bodies from Oveready before they ran out. I dig it, but the 18490's are really short on run time. I can't get past about 40 minutes before the voltage sags too low and I have to disconnect the unprotected cells. Truthfully, I get annoyed with it sometimes and just run it on primaries. You're better off running your AVS head on your bored out Bravo body on an 18650.


I kind of agree. I like the size of the charlie but I do not know what to think yet. I played around with a few runtime tests and not sure what to think at the moment. Here are my results and you may want to get new cells (you won't gain a lot but it's slightly better)
Bravo w/2x18350 900mah (protected) gets me 38min of full output @900lm then it cuts off. 

18650 I believe flashlightguide says provides 500lm or so. I get around 1hr @ or near the 500lm. then a very long gradual decline in output. I get a good 3-3.5hrs of useable light, total of around 6hrs before cut off. 
Most of my testing was during the day so my judgement on output could be a bit off. Either way, I feel like the 18650 would be the best option. I will have time to see what the difference in output will be soon. 

as far as stock Charlie: I tested using 1100mah 17500 Aw protected cells(flashlightguide says 18500s should give approx 65min of full output, then drop to approx 650lm but only last for a few minutes after that) basically you should get just over an hour @900lm(that's acceptable) I have some 2000mah panasonic protected cells(not sure if they really are 2000mah, did a test on a malkoff and only gained 15min over a 1500mah 18500) but Keeppower also has 1700mah sanyo cells. 

I got 53min from my 1100mah 17500's of full output before cells cut off. ending voltage was still over 3v. Your 1100mah 18490's should have similar performance and if you get higher capacity cells, you should at least be able to hit just over the 1hr mark(that could be 25-30min more, that's a decent gain/increase)

I just looked at my notes. Charlie test was on std avs, bravo tests were with flood. I also did the flood on the charlie with 1100mah 17500 cells and got about 58mins of full output till cells cut off. With good 18500cells, you should be able to get a good amount over the hr mark


----------



## Grizzman

I've added the 120 hour low mode data to post 2715.


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> I kind of agree. I like the size of the charlie but I do not know what to think yet. I played around with a few runtime tests and not sure what to think at the moment. Here are my results and you may want to get new cells (you won't gain a lot but it's slightly better)
> Bravo w/2x18350 900mah (protected) gets me 38min of full output @900lm then it cuts off.
> 
> 18650 I believe flashlightguide says provides 500lm or so. I get around 1hr @ or near the 500lm. then a very long gradual decline in output. I get a good 3-3.5hrs of useable light, total of around 6hrs before cut off.
> Most of my testing was during the day so my judgement on output could be a bit off. Either way, I feel like the 18650 would be the best option. I will have time to see what the difference in output will be soon.
> 
> as far as stock Charlie: I tested using 1100mah 17500 Aw protected cells(flashlightguide says 18500s should give approx 65min of full output, then drop to approx 650lm but only last for a few minutes after that) basically you should get just over an hour @900lm(that's acceptable) I have some 2000mah panasonic protected cells(not sure if they really are 2000mah, did a test on a malkoff and only gained 15min over a 1500mah 18500) but Keeppower also has 1700mah sanyo cells.
> 
> I got 53min from my 1100mah 17500's of full output before cells cut off. ending voltage was still over 3v. Your 1100mah 18490's should have similar performance and if you get higher capacity cells, you should at least be able to hit just over the 1hr mark(that could be 25-30min more, that's a decent gain/increase)
> 
> I just looked at my notes. Charlie test was on std avs, bravo tests were with flood. I also did the flood on the charlie with 1100mah 17500 cells and got about 58mins of full output till cells cut off. With good 18500cells, you should be able to get a good amount over the hr mark



I've never been able to replicate the run time results posted on Flashlight guide, but I do consider his review to be a reliable source of information. I have two pairs of unprotected AW 18490s that I bought from Oveready. They appear to be quite normal in every respect, but my real world run time tests are the same every time. The light steps down from 900 to 650 lumens at about the 42 minute mark and then the output begins to fall precipitously. When I put them back on the charger, the voltage reads at about 2.5 volts, which is just about as far as I want to push my unprotected cells. They've been this way since they were new. Do you think I got bad cells? Flashlight guide says I should get about 60 minutes before the decline in output. That would be 50% more run time.


----------



## Modernflame

One more thing. The review on flashlight guide says that two protected 18500 cells are a very tight fit in the Charlie, but you seem to have no trouble fitting them? I'd like to move up from 1100 to 1700 mAh, but I've been reticent to purchase other batteries for this reason.


----------



## RI Chevy

You need better 18500 cells. I use Sanyo cells. They are the best. Unprotected though.


----------



## Grizzman

My bored Charlie has AW IMR 18490s in it right now, and all other days as well. It takes some extra persuasion, but the tailcap will screw on when the body has protected AW 18500s in it. 

When maximum run time with ~900 lumens is the goal, the 18500 cell is hardly ideal. I just screwed an Oveready 18650 extension onto a bored Bravo, attached a McClickied Z41 tailcap, and inserted two protected AW 3400 mAh 18650s. It works well, if in a rather unattractive manner. 

A bored A19 screwed onto a bored Charlie, with a McClickied Z41 gives similar results. Due to the battery length, the Z41 really squeezes the cells, but it does work. To mix the manufacturers even further, a Malkoff tailcap works better than the Z41.


----------



## Modernflame

Grizzman said:


> My bored Charlie has AW IMR 18490s in it right now, and all other days as well. It takes some extra persuasion, but the tailcap will screw on when the body has protected AW 18500s in it.
> 
> When maximum run time with ~900 lumens is the goal, the 18500 cell is hardly ideal. I just screwed an Oveready 18650 extension onto a bored Bravo, attached a McClickied Z41 tailcap, and inserted two protected AW 3400 mAh 18650s. It works well, if in a rather unattractive manner.
> 
> A bored A19 screwed onto a bored Charlie, with a McClickied Z41 gives similar results. Due to the battery length, the Z41 really squeezes the cells, but it does work. To mix the manufacturers even further, a Malkoff tailcap works better than the Z41.



Thanks for checking. I have two questions:

1) I'm close to buying some 1700 mAh 18500's, but my concern is that the extra battery length would compress the springs and, over time, increase the inner length of the battery tube. Would I encounter contact problems later if I were to revert to a shorter battery format like 2 X 18490 or 3 X 132a? 

2) I've considered getting the Oveready 18350 battery extender for my bored out Charlie so I can run 2 X 18650. I'm assuming this is equivalent to your Surfire A19 experiment, but Oveready is predictably sold out of black. I'm not willing to settle for the natural finish. Are there any other manufacturers who make a suitable product? I don't know where to find a Surfire A19 anymore.


----------



## INFRNL

@Modernflame: I was not indicating that you have bad cells, more that there are higher capacity cells available. Seems that you have already found the 1700mah cells. Those should provide you with a good hour+ of runtime in the Charlie

I have also found that protected cells will work but the head typically needs to be left unscrewed a bit. When I did my test, I screwed the tailcap on all the way, inserted cells, then carefully tightened the head so everything still functioned properly. The first time I think i tightened everything down a bit too much and the tailcap would not easily rotate, so i had to back the head off till i got it where i wanted it.

The springs should hold up fine but in the event that they do stay compressed a little, they can carefully be stretched back out to where they need to be.

I'm not sure on battery extenders. If we were talking Malkoff, the match would be closer, but i am not sure there are any that would come close to matching an Elzetta. 18650 cells would be ideal. Since my Charlie is not bored, i unfortunately cannot do any runtime tests with the cells i have.

I have 1500mah Aw 18500's, 1700mah Keeppower and true sanyo cells (incoming tomorrow), and I have 2000mah panasonic protected 18500's. I would like to test all three on the avs. I have tested the Aw and panasonic on a malkoff MD3 and runtime results were within 15mins of eachother (so I am not sure these panasonics are true 2000mah)

I may just bore out the charlie myself and do the tests. I almost get an hour already off my 1100mah 17500's, surely I can get 1.25hrs on 18500's which is plenty for my current needs/use


----------



## Grizzman

It is possible that the excess length of protected 18500s may compress the head and tailcap springs. Since they're springs, there's nothing stopping you from manually stretching them back out a bit if this occurred. Tubular 6061 Aluminum is quite strong, so there'd be no worry about stretching it.

It's very likely that my bored A19 extender came from Oveready, but I haven't seen them offered for sale for a long time. I also have one of their custom HA 18350 extenders, and functionally, they are the same. A Want To Buy thread here may turn up one that's available for purchase.


----------



## kevinn1243670

i were to mount a light or a weapon, Elzetta would be my first choice.


----------



## INFRNL

@modernflame
K, i bored out my Charlie to accept 18mm cells. The aw 1500mah protected cells fit the best. The Panasonic's are a little longer but still work fine. Panasonic's leave a gap at the head/body a little more than the factory gap at the tailcap. Aw's fit normally (everything tightens all the way down without issue)

Now for the good stuff (only tested pannys(2000mah) so far) i do not have a meter. Ran at full or near full output for just over 1hr 36mins then cut off. Going to check cell voltage and head to bed.

Will test aw 1500mah here after a while and will test 1700mah keeppowers when the mailman stops by. I'm happy with just over [email protected] still had tons of light when the cells cut out.

When i get time ill do 1 test on avs flood, but should yield very similar results

Hope this helps


----------



## vadimax

Me personally started with a couple of AW 16350. Those 900lm are nice, but short  Switched to Sanyo 16650. 650lm, but much longer.


----------



## Modernflame

Thanks for the input, guys. I ordered one pair of Keepower 1700 mAh 18500's, but only one pair to start. I'm highly motivated to increase the run time of the Charlie, but I'm not sure how I feel about so much tightening, loosening, and stretching. I kinda just want everything to fit together properly. I'll have some feed back on fit, function, and run time when the post man comes my way. 

I also got one Keepower 2500 mAh 16650 for my stock Bravo body, but I have similar concerns about fit. I think Elzetta battery tubes must be a few millimeters shorter than comparable Surefire or Malkoff bodies.


----------



## bykfixer

Elzetta bodies are designed for maximum connection of the fuel supply with minimum potential for interuption of the flow due to vibrations. This is in part due to the point(s) of contact of the +/- ends of CR123's. 

It's the CPF junkies who figured out how to effectively utilize rechargeables in their products.
I say "thank you" since that led to the dual fuel capable Bones.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> Thanks for the input, guys. I ordered one pair of Keepower 1700 mAh 18500's, but only one pair to start. I'm highly motivated to increase the run time of the Charlie, but I'm not sure how I feel about so much tightening, loosening, and stretching. I kinda just want everything to fit together properly. I'll have some feed back on fit, function, and run time when the post man comes my way.
> 
> I also got one Keepower 2500 mAh 16650 for my stock Bravo body, but I have similar concerns about fit. I think Elzetta battery tubes must be a few millimeters shorter than comparable Surefire or Malkoff bodies.



You won't have any fitment issues with the 16650. The stock elzettas will accept 17mm cells(at least AW) and they have plenty of room for length(bravo)

It's on the Charlie where 2 longer cells create issues. 

I have keeppower 16650s and 18650s, they fit the bravo just fine without over tightening, loosening the head, etc.

Started my runtime test with the aw 1500mah protected 18650s. Will report back in about an hour with results


EDIT: With the AW 18500's 1500ah: I got just over 1hr 13min. When i went to check the cells; 1 cell was at 3v, the other was at 3.26v. This is typical behavior of multiple cells. If the cells drained a little closer together it might gain a few minutes of use. When i checked the Panasonic cells from last nights test, they actually drained pretty even. Being these are just simple single tests; these results should provide rough times +/- a few minutes.

Will test the keeppowers as soon as the package arrives(hopefully within the next hr)

EDIT: Mail came but there must have been a communication issue with illumn (the keeppower 18500's were missed from my original order, thought they were shipping them out in the new order) keeppowers did not arrive. However i did get the sanyo 18500 1700mah unprotected cells that are the same physical cell as keeppower (charging now, will test soon)


----------



## INFRNL

Ok, for those of you that may have any interest. i will recap all my simple unscientific test results I have concluded so far on Bravo and Charlie/ AVS-AVS flood
Unfortunately i do not have a meter for more accurate info on output

Bravo: AVS Flood
2x18350 keeppower unprotected 900mah: 40min [email protected] full output(should leave cells around 3v before resting period brings it up)
2x18350 Keeppower protected 900mah::: 38min full output then cells cut off

1x sanyo/panny 18650GA protected 3500mah: 
1st run:: Didn't watch this one well: approx 3 hrs of full or near full output then gradual decline in output. Light cut off around 5.5-6hrs approx
2nd run: 1.75hrs-2hrs temp dropped a few deg F but did not notice any loss of output. 
: 3 hrs, no longer producing heat but no signs of loss in output. @3.25hrs still no signs of loss in output and definitely no heat ([email protected] approx 86deg f)
: 3.5 can see slow gradual decline in output but still very bright. @ 4hrs still enough light to navigate
: 4.75hrs pretty dim but could probably navigate indoors at night
: 4 hrs 59min, light cut out. (not sure why output lasted .5-1hrs less than 1st run
18650 3500mah cell provides full output for at least 3hrs and up to 4 hrs of useable light roughly


Charlie with AVS Flood
2x17500 AW protected 1100mah: Full output for 57min, then cells cut off

Charlie AVS
2x17500 AW protected 1100mah: full output for 53min, then cells cut off

2x18500 Panny protected 2000mah: full output for 1hr 36min, then cells cut off
2x18500 Sanyo unprotected 1700mah (same cells as keeppower protected): full output for 1hr 10mins(cell voltage/ [email protected]) Cell voltage also checked at 45mins(3.75vea)/ 1hr 20min light all of a suddeen got dim, checked voltage; one cell 2.65v and came up quickly to 2.85v, second cell was 2.8v and quickly came up to 3.02v( cells current voltage after cool down 3.19/3.24) I do not know why the weird behavior and quick drop in cell voltage(up to 1v in 10min) hopefully the Keeppower protected cells will behave better.

2x18500 AW protected 1500mah: Full output for 1hr 13mins, then cells cut off

2x18500 Keeppower 1700mah: Full output for 1hr 23min, then cuts off. Need to retest, had some issues that may have slightly skewed the test. This is weird though because these are the same cells as the unprotected sanyos, but provide more runtime. End voltage also stayed at 3v or above. I checked cells after a couple minutes of rest and they read 3.21v/3.35v. 

2x18490 AW unprotected 1100mah:
30mins: both cells @3.7v
40mins: both cells @3.63v
45mins: 1 [email protected], [email protected],6v: this is where the separation starts and is nearing the end of the run. So when voltage starts separating I conclude it's close to time to swap out for new cells
50mins: [email protected], 2nd 3.54: not a big difference but slowly spreading
55mins: [email protected], 2nd 3.47v: now we are seeing a difference and I suggest swapping at this point
1hr::::: 1st cell 2.5v, 2nd 3.02v: At this point the light was still at or near full output and producing heat. cells after roughly 30mins rest leveled out to 2.95v and 3.2v

I would say 55mins is the absolute max safe runtime on these cells


This is all I have for now. I may pick up a meter here in the next 2-3wks and hopefully have my keeppower 18500 cells to test and add.

So my conclusion is Bravo with good 18650 cell provides adequate light output for a long time, and is best option. 30-40min max runtime for 900lm is not worth it

Charlie is best suited for 900lm output. so far panasonic protected 18500 2000mah cells provide the best runtime. Hope this helps those with concerns

Enjoy the rest of your weekend. I'm getting ready to head back out on the road and most likely will not be on much


----------



## xdayv

INFRNL, thanks for the runtime tests and results, helpful!



Modernflame said:


> Regarding the question of the Bones input voltage, I received the following response from Wade at Elzetta:
> 
> You’ll be fine with two 18350’s. It won’t hurt anything.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Thank you,
> Wade



Just clarifying, can I use 2x IMR 18350's for the Bones? TIA.


----------



## Grizzman

xdayv said:


> Just clarifying, can I use 2x IMR 18350's for the Bones? TIA.



Here's some info from a couple pages back. Two IMR cells should be used with caution, since the Bones will drain them to below 2.5 volts.




kyhunter1 said:


> Talked with elzetta today. The Bones can handle 2x18350. Would be close to 900 lumens but shorter runtime. The output is determined by voltage so it is similar to the avs. They would not say it is exactly the same driver as in the avs. Also, the tailcaps are not interchangeable with the other elzetta lights. The bones version is slightly larger. This allows room for a thicker body than custom bored bodies and still allow 18mm cells. They also do not reccomend rechargeable cells for any serious use when life is on the line. They also discourage 3xrcr123 use as it will risk burning out the driver in the charlie/avs. Not an issue with the bones.


----------



## xdayv

Grizzman said:


> Here's some info from a couple pages back. Two IMR cells should be used with caution, since the Bones will drain them to below 2.5 volts.


Thanks Grizzman!


----------



## vadimax

Grizzman said:


> Here's some info from a couple pages back. Two IMR cells should be used with caution, since the Bones will drain them to below 2.5 volts.



Looks like Bones head works differently from AVS. The latter starts to flicker (900<->650 lm) at 7V -- kind of a warning.


----------



## Modernflame

vadimax said:


> Looks like Bones head works differently from AVS. The latter starts to flicker (900<->650 lm) at 7V -- kind of a warning.



What sort of flicker? I've never witnessed this in either of my AVS heads.


----------



## Grizzman

I just performed a test with a Bravo using AW IMR 18350 cells. I could see the instant change from “Charlie” mode to “Bravo” mode, but the light output was completely steady before and during a couple minutes of use after the single change. I then charged the cells back up to ~3.5 volts and did it again, with the same result.

I just depleted a couple different 18350s down to 3.8 volts and put them into a different Bravo wth AVS head. I held the head in my hand, ceiling bounced the light directly above me, and saw the same result.

If the light is switching back and forth between the two modes or flickering, then my guess is that something isn’t right with the light (or cells).


----------



## Grizzman

Here are the results so far, with the lux reading taken by ceiling bouncing it in my small 1/2 bath:

1 minute – 1.11 lux & 4.19 Volts
24 Hours – 1.10 to 1.11 lux & 4.035 Volts
48 Hours – 1.00 lux & 3.919 Volts
72 Hours - .89 lux & 3.838 Volts
96 Hours - .80 lux & 3.749 Volts
120 Hours - .67 lux & 3.659 Volts
144 Hours - .64 lux & 3.610 Volts
168 Hours - .60 lux & 3.571 Volts
192 Hours - .51 lux & 3.498 Volts
217 Hours - .42 lux & 3.424 Volts
240 Hours - .37 lux & 3.351 Volts
264 Hours - .32 lux & 3.314 Volts
288 Hours - .18 lux & 3.151 Volts

Output has visibly dropped over the last 24 hours. It's still useful indoors. I'll be outside some tonight, so I'll see how it works for close range tasks.


----------



## RI Chevy

Wow. OMG. 👍


----------



## Grizzman

I had a strong feeling this wouldn't be a short test.

When you consider that even in a SHTF situation with no electrical power, you don't run a light during the hours when the sun is shining. You also won't run it while you're sleeping. Handheld lighting would probably only be needed for somewhere around 5 hours per day. 

Based on this, the light has already been operating for roughly 38.5 days, on one partial charge. I fully expect it to reach the 275 hour point before I get bored and stop the test or it dims to the point of losing usefulness At this point it will have operated for 55 days....on a single charge.


----------



## Modernflame

Feeling annoyed. 

Two Keepower 18500's ABSOLUTELY DO NOT FIT in a bored out Elzetta Charlie body. Not even close. Even if you unscrew the head entirely, the batteries stop on the "lip" left by Oveready during the machining process. The combined length of the cells is far too long. I can't get the tail cap to catch the threads at all. I'm totally at a loss as to how people are conducting run time tests on these batteries. Oveready left a little rubber O-ring on that lip, but I've taken that out as well. Do I need to have the flashlight body rebored?


----------



## RI Chevy

No. Either use the 18490 AW cells, or Sanyo unprotected 18500 cells.


----------



## Grizzman

RI Chevy is correct. The issue isn't with the light...it's with the chosen cells. 

AW IMR 18490s fit well. AW protected 18500s fit with an acceptable amount of effort.


----------



## Modernflame

I'm a kid at the sand box, but my toy is broken.


----------



## the0dore3524

It's the batteries...try 18490s and they should fit.


----------



## Modernflame

the0dore3524 said:


> It's the batteries...try 18490s and they should fit.



I have two pairs of AW 18490's but I only get 42 or 43 minutes of run time. That's the problem I was trying to solve with the 18500's.


----------



## INFRNL

You must have an older bored Charlie. When I got my bored bravo, it did not have that lip on the head side. They must have realized that the lip creates issues with certain cells. 

When i bored my charlie myself, i had to bore the entire length because of the issues with protected cells. On my bravo, i left a lip and it works without issue.

The new aw 18500 1500mah cells fit fine and provide nearly 1.25 hrs of runtime. For whatever reason, keeppower has the longest cells I've ever seen.

Your best bet is either the aw 18500 protected cells or the Panasonic 2000mah protected cells. If interested pm me and i can tell you where to get the Panasonic's.

If you want, I will also buy your keeppowers if you won't be able to use them in anything


----------



## BitGeek

What options are available currently for boring a Charlie host? I have one I would like to use 18500's in. Thanks for the reply


----------



## Grizzman

PrecisionWorks is one option. Your neighborhood high tech machine shop is another. Your power drill and a shot of liquid courage is another.

My low mode run time test has passed 250 hours. It's still putting out enough light to be useful inside and outdoors within 10-15 feet. The cell has a resting voltage of 3.314 volts, so it's still got a looong way to go.


----------



## BitGeek

Grizzman said:


> PrecisionWorks is one option. Your neighborhood high tech machine shop is another. Your power drill and a shot of liquid courage is another.
> 
> My low mode run time test has passed 250 hours. It's still putting out enough light to be useful inside and outdoors within 10-15 feet. The cell has a resting voltage of 3.314 volts, so it's still got a looong way to go.


Thanks Grizzman. Getting my power drill ready now! I have seen sandpaper used around a bit to bore a 6P...


----------



## INFRNL

I used a unibit(step bit) i just need to figure something out to give it i nicer finish. 

I probably should have had the body submerged in coolant when i bored mine. I also should have planned everything out better but it turned out good. The unibit helps keep the bit centered compared to using a std drill bit.

Best of luck


----------



## BitGeek

Thx INFRNL...I'll need to keep those tips in mind as I contemplate modding my Charlie.


----------



## INFRNL

If you want to maximize runtime and need every last minute, id bore it. If you can get by with just under an hour of time on high, get a set of aw 17500 protected cells.

My numbers are listed above on this page. You can gain 20-45 mins roughly depending on 18500s chosen

It's a tough call. I did it just to be the guinea pig and do some runtime tests to help out. Plus I needed to know for myself.

I also now have more battery options if need be but I'll just use 18500s

I also highly do not recommend unprotected cells in multiple cell lights. One cell ALWAYS gets drained way faster. I had interesting results on the sanyo unprotected cells(not sure if i posted them here or not)


----------



## BitGeek

INFRNL said:


> If you want to maximize runtime and need every last minute, id bore it. If you can get by with just under an hour of time on high, get a set of aw 17500 protected cells.
> 
> My numbers are listed above on this page. You can gain 20-45 mins roughly depending on 18500s chosen
> 
> It's a tough call. I did it just to be the guinea pig and do some runtime tests to help out. Plus I needed to know for myself.
> 
> I also now have more battery options if need be but I'll just use 18500s
> 
> I also highly do not recommend unprotected cells in multiple cell lights. One cell ALWAYS gets drained way faster. I had interesting results on the sanyo unprotected cells(not sure if i posted them here or not)


I am sold on having it bored...Just not positive if I'll send it out or try to do it in house. 

Good to know on the unprotected. I think I'm down to just a handful of those around ATM. Everything else is now protected.


----------



## INFRNL

Guess it depends on turn around time and cost. If you do not have the proper bit, that could cost as much as having someone do the work.

On the Bravo, it looks like oveready doesn't charge much for the bored body roughly$45 this gives you rough idea what would be a decent price to pay for the work.

I imagine Charlie would be worth 50-60 to have it bored. 

Also keep in mind, you want it bored close to 19mm to accept any protected cells. I don't remember what oveready bores to (18.xx mm) but the oveready bores only accept aw protected cells that i? I'm aware of. 

They will not accept keeppower, lg, or Panasonic/sanyo protected cells. I did mine with a 3/4" step bit, essentially 19mm. I mic'd it but dont recall the end result. You do not want to go any larger as the edge for hi/low to work properly is at a borderline minimal thickness. 

If you have issues, you need to lightly file the surface flat again. This will ever so slightly thicken the suface for the hi/low to function properly again (only if there are issues after boring)

Hope this helps


----------



## RI Chevy

I realize unprotected cells are not for everyone, but I check my Sanyo 18500 cells regularly, and they are always even with voltage. Cells always show exact voltage when checked with DMM.
Just stating my results.


----------



## Grizzman

My low mode run time test, using an AW 3400 mah battery, has finally ended. I just looked at the light, and the output has dropped significantly. It now matches a 170 lumen Nichia 219B HDS on it's third from the lowest setting, which should be somewhere around .17 lumen. 

I'm still able to turn it back on after being turned off, and high also still works. I'm already charging the cell, so won't torture it further by determining how bright high is, but it was bright enough.

It has been running for 302 hours.

The cell's resting voltage at the end, which really wasn't the end since the light was fully funcional, was 2.935 volts.


----------



## scout24

Wow... Thanks for running that!


----------



## RI Chevy

Super! Thanks Grizzman. 
Can't argue with those results. 👍


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> You must have an older bored Charlie. When I got my bored bravo, it did not have that lip on the head side. They must have realized that the lip creates issues with certain cells.
> 
> When i bored my charlie myself, i had to bore the entire length because of the issues with protected cells. On my bravo, i left a lip and it works without issue.
> 
> The new aw 18500 1500mah cells fit fine and provide nearly 1.25 hrs of runtime. For whatever reason, keeppower has the longest cells I've ever seen.
> 
> Your best bet is either the aw 18500 protected cells or the Panasonic 2000mah protected cells. If interested pm me and i can tell you where to get the Panasonic's.
> 
> If you want, I will also buy your keeppowers if you won't be able to use them in anything



Thanks for the advice. I bought a pair of AW protected 18500s and should have them in a few days. I also got a couple of AW 18650s in the hope that I can use them in the bored Charlie by adding an 18350 extender and using a Surefire or Malkoff tail cap. No harm if it doesn't work. I can always use some extra cells.

As for the Keepower 18500s, I don't have any use for them. Happy to let them go if you want them. Since shipping is involved, I'd be happy to cut you a good deal to make it worth your while. I pulled the labels off when I was experimenting with fit. Otherwise, they appear normal. I have not charged them.


----------



## INFRNL

@chevy, I'll expound on my results later when im not driving through the great smokey mountains. 
I can agree to a certain point​


@modernflame, pm me with what you need or I'll pm you later


@grizz: :thumbsup:
Not sure if anyone would need light for that long, but the option is there.

Also as you have stated, this was a continuous runtime test but in real world a light would most likely only be needed a few hrs a day

What's next a quad L low runtime test...hahaha


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Just ordered the Bones version. Was strongly considering the Surefire Peacekeeper (dual mode), but after 2 unanswered emails to them over the past several weeks, decided to try out Elzetta!


----------



## xdayv

JohnnyBravo said:


> Just ordered the Bones version. Was strongly considering the Surefire Peacekeeper (dual mode), but after 2 unanswered emails to them over the past several weeks, decided to try out Elzetta!



Bones is a solid choice. It is the only light that has bumped off the P1R from the EDC.


----------



## mckeand13

JohnnyBravo said:


> Just ordered the Bones version. Was strongly considering the Surefire Peacekeeper (dual mode), but after 2 unanswered emails to them over the past several weeks, decided to try out Elzetta!



How quickly did Elzetta answer emails? Recently people have been getting no reply from them as well.


----------



## Johnnyh

mckeand13 said:


> How quickly did Elzetta answer emails? Recently people have been getting no reply from them as well.



I've found calling is way better, seriously.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

mckeand13 said:


> How quickly did Elzetta answer emails? Recently people have been getting no reply from them as well.



I don't know. Not long ago, I just called Elzetta. I was very surprised/delighted that the owner Dave answered the phone. No voice prompts, phone menus, etc. He answered my questions, was friendly, and sounded just like on his videos. Tracking shows that I should get it this Friday, yay!


----------



## bykfixer

I predict you'll like the Bones just fine Johhny. 
Ease of dual fuel is a bonus.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Bykfixer, thank you. I do like the idea of dual fuel. I have a number of Orbtronic 18650s, and I do have some CR123 sleeves to quiet some rattle if I choose that way. Good to have choices. If I like the Bones enough, I may order the Charlie w/ AVS head and hi-lo tailcap w/ some engraving!


----------



## Modernflame

LITHIUM BATTERY EXPLOSION!! This is probably the wrong thread, but I bought the cell in question for an Elzetta so the post is going here. The mail man delivered a pair of new AW 2200 mAh 18650's and a pair of AW 18500s today. I put the two 18650's on a new Nitecore i4 Charger. Since this was the first use of both the charger and the battery, I don't know which was at fault. The 18650's had been on the charger for about 40 minutes when a dramatic-Fourth-of-July fireworks display erupted from the charger. Fireball! Thankfully, I got the wife out of the house within seconds and she was not affected by the fumes. I'm pretty sure I'm ok, too, but I did hang around long enough to douse the area with a fire extinguisher. We called the fire department and got the all clear to re-enter. For the past two hours we've been cleaning fire retardant powder off of everything in the house. 

Thanks be to God, everyone is healthy and we still have a home, but I'm still one frustrated flashlight addict. Between the fire, the toxic death cloud, and the blast from the fire extinguisher, I lost both 18650's, both 18500's, the i4 Charger and another Nitecore two channel charger that was nearby. My only remaining charger is a micro USB Xtar single channel device.

Anyone have any insight as to why the cell detonated? AW cells are supposed to be first rate and I've been using Nitecore smart chargers for a long time. As I said, the battery was only on board for about 40 minutes. Seems like a short time for a thermal run away.


----------



## archimedes

I would suggest considering taking that over to "Hot Cells and Close Calls" for further discussion ....

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...d-Close-Calls-The-dangerous-side-of-batteries


----------



## kj2

Looking at the low profile bezel, but it comes without a lens. Which/what lens do I need in combination with a Malkoff drop-in?


----------



## Grizzman

kj2 said:


> Looking at the low profile bezel, but it comes without a lens. Which/what lens do I need in combination with a Malkoff drop-in?



From what material would would like it made.....Sapphire, glass, polycarbonate, or other? 

I have purchased the first three options.


----------



## kj2

Would choose for glass


----------



## Grizzman

Flashlightlens.com sells a 22.61mm by 1.10mm Borofloat glass lens. It's a bit thinner than the 1.56mm Acrylic lenses that Malkoff sells, but they work fine for me. I think the diameter is exactly the same.

Flashlightlens.com also sells an AR coated 22.9mm by .95mm thick Borofloat lens for $4.25 that should also work. The discount code cpf2009 may still work to get you a bit of a discount.


----------



## INFRNL

RI Chevy said:


> I realize unprotected cells are not for everyone, but I check my Sanyo 18500 cells regularly, and they are always even with voltage. Cells always show exact voltage when checked with DMM.
> Just stating my results.



It probably doesn't matter anymore and time has passed, but I said i would explain my results further. In the flashlight world and my testing experience, unprotected cells in lights without protection is no good for me. I know others can do it without issue, but I'm not in a position were i feel I can safely monitor the cells without over discharging them. I am not like some that are anti unprotected nor will push anyone away from them, they are just not for me in lights without protection for the cells. I have some lights that can only use unprotected or have additional protection built in. 

Anyway, i have various results using unprotected cells or even protected cells. The cell that is closest to the module tends to drain quicker for whatever reason. Larger cells typically stay closer to eachother in voltage than smaller cells. 

The one test I did using the unprotected sanyo cells; they drained very evenly up to just over an hour. I kept checking the voltage. then within 10 minutes of last test which was well over 3 volts, all of a sudden the light cut off or got very dim(can't recall) checked voltage and 1 cell was still good and the other dropped well below 3v. Can't recall actual voltage but i think i posted it in my results(too lazy to go look). So yes they stayed within .02-.03v of eachother until the end, then a big difference in voltage. the cell closest to the module is the one that dropped way down.

On a side note: I finally got home to get my keeppower 18500's (1700mah) from modernflame! I did a test on one of my Malkoffs, currenly recharging to test the Charlie w/avs. will post results in my post with the rest of the results


----------



## RI Chevy

Very true. 👍
I probably should have specified. I very rarely take my Sanyo 18500 cells below 3.25v's. I used to check them religiously with DMM. They were always extremely close. 
Even though the cells are unprotected, they still have some built in protection. Ad far as I understand it. 
But it is always good to be safe.


----------



## INFRNL

Well in this case you are safe. I can agree that they stayed closely matched to within this level. Not sure what kind of runtime you are getting but i think I was at just over an hour. I only did one test to, so maybe after some cycles the cells could get into a good groove to supply more reliable results, I'm not sure.

I also imagine that in time one would know their limits on particular cells and would have a very good idea of what would be safe. Although my test was a continuous run, I guess under normal circumstances, continuous monitoring with DMM would be necessary. Either way, in your case I see no issues and glad they are working well. 

I think for those that may not be aware of some of the info posted on unprotected or protected cells can help them at least be aware of possible issues.


----------



## INFRNL

Ran a test on Charlie with standard AVS head using the 18500 Keeppower 1700mah cells I got from modernflame.

I had a couple minor issues that may have skewed the test, so a retest is in order. I got 1hr 23mins of full output then the light cut off. It was still producing heat and I let the cells rest for a couple minutes. cell voltage was 3.21v/3.35v. I will retest later today after I decide to get up.

If this number is correct, these provide longer runtime than the identical unprotected sanyo cells. I may need to retest those as well.

unprotected: 1hr 10 minutes to 1hr 20 minutes
protected::: 1hr 23 minutes

I guess they are close enough but will retest both to see if they provide similar results


----------



## RI Chevy

Thanks. How did the cells fit? Same as Sanyo's?


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> Ran a test on Charlie with standard AVS head using the 18500 Keeppower 1700mah cells I got from modernflame.
> 
> I had a couple minor issues that may have skewed the test, so a retest is in order. I got 1hr 23mins of full output then the light cut off. It was still producing heat and I let the cells rest for a couple minutes. cell voltage was 3.21v/3.35v. I will retest later today after I decide to get up.
> 
> If this number is correct, these provide longer runtime than the identical unprotected sanyo cells. I may need to retest those as well.
> 
> unprotected: 1hr 10 minutes to 1hr 20 minutes
> protected::: 1hr 23 minutes
> 
> I guess they are close enough but will retest both to see if they provide similar results



I'm glad the cells work for you! Your Elzetta is definitely bored out differently than mine. Meanwhile, I'm still struggling with run time here. I ordered a two AW 18650's and two AW protected 1500 mAh 18500's, but one of the unprotected 18650's went nuclear on my charger and burst into flames. Everything nearby, including my new 18500's, got doused with the fire extinguisher. Anyway, back to square one. My AW 18490's consistently provide about 42 or 43 minutes of run time before the voltage sags down to about 2.5 volts.

I ordered two more AW 2200 mAh 18650's which I intend to use in the Charlie with an 18350 extension and a SF switch. That will no doubt increase my run time, but I lose the low beam with that set up. Still looking for AW 18500's but I'm not sure where to get them. If you have any suggestions, please let me know.


----------



## RI Chevy

Yikes. What charger were you using?


----------



## Modernflame

RI Chevy said:


> Yikes. What charger were you using?



I started a thread over on the dangerous batteries sub forum on 3/24. Check it out.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> I'm glad the cells work for you! Your Elzetta is definitely bored out differently than mine. Meanwhile, I'm still struggling with run time here. I ordered a two AW 18650's and two AW protected 1500 mAh 18500's, but one of the unprotected 18650's went nuclear on my charger and burst into flames. Everything nearby, including my new 18500's, got doused with the fire extinguisher. Anyway, back to square one. My AW 18490's consistently provide about 42 or 43 minutes of run time before the voltage sags down to about 2.5 volts.
> 
> I ordered two more AW 2200 mAh 18650's which I intend to use in the Charlie with an 18350 extension and a SF switch. That will no doubt increase my run time, but I lose the low beam with that set up. Still looking for AW 18500's but I'm not sure where to get them. If you have any suggestions, please let me know.


Sorry about your issues. There is only one AW authorized dealer that I am aware of in the USA and they are RTD vapor. Yes others carry or sell but RTD is where I buy all my AW cells. They are guaranteed to be genuine/ no fakes or counterfits

I,ll respond back better in a bit


----------



## Nord

Unless you're actually taking advantage of the extreme toughness of these lights you are just carrying something 5 times heavier and twice as large as you need to. It's like using one of those modified bullet proof Mercedes SUV's as your daily commuter. 

Sure, being able to withstand a gun shot is a nice feature- if you happen to take your evening walks in Mosul. But for anything short of that I don't know why I would want one, except for the novelty factor.


----------



## Modernflame

Nord said:


> Unless you're actually taking advantage of the extreme toughness of these lights you are just carrying something 5 times heavier and twice as large as you need to. It's like using one of those modified bullet proof Mercedes SUV's as your daily commuter.
> 
> Sure, being able to withstand a gun shot is a nice feature- if you happen to take your evening walks in Mosul. But for anything short of that I don't know why I would want one, except for the novelty factor.



Which lights are you comparing in terms of size and weight?


----------



## INFRNL

RI Chevy said:


> Thanks. How did the cells fit? Same as Sanyo's?


 The cells fit fine, but as modernflame mentioned; I need to remember that mine is bored larger than the oveready ones. The keeppower cells are slightly longer than the panasonic cells i have and the head does not thread on a lot; probably only a turn or so. Not ideal but it works. 
The unprotected sanyo cells are obviously shorter because they do not have the pcb on them. I think diameter is nearly the same except the protected cells have that band that runs the length of the cell.



Modernflame said:


> I'm glad the cells work for you! Your Elzetta is definitely bored out differently than mine. Meanwhile, I'm still struggling with run time here. I ordered a two AW 18650's and two AW protected 1500 mAh 18500's, but one of the unprotected 18650's went nuclear on my charger and burst into flames. Everything nearby, including my new 18500's, got doused with the fire extinguisher. Anyway, back to square one. My AW 18490's consistently provide about 42 or 43 minutes of run time before the voltage sags down to about 2.5 volts.
> 
> I ordered two more AW 2200 mAh 18650's which I intend to use in the Charlie with an 18350 extension and a SF switch. That will no doubt increase my run time, but I lose the low beam with that set up. Still looking for AW 18500's but I'm not sure where to get them. If you have any suggestions, please let me know.


I'm going to look at your thread. this really sucks. I also agree that losing the low output would not work for me. I will see if i can find another reliable source for AW cells. Hopefully others can chime in on that as well. 



I did another test with the keeppowers today and the results were not as good. I only got 1hr 18mins today befor the light cut off. Checked voltage as soon as it cut off. one cell was 3.07v and the other was 3.23v

I also cannot retest the unprotected sanyo's. I grabbed them last night to put on the charger to make sure they had a full charge. something happened to one of the cells and it only had .6v. I do not plan to replace it at this time. being that I do not really have a use for unprotected cells in 18500, I won't be able to do another test on them.

So I guess my conclusion stands that the Panasonic 18500 2000mah protected cells provide the most runtime @ approx 1hr 36min in a Charlie w/avs head. 

AW has the best fit and should provide nearly 1.25hrs of runtime. 

For those that also have Malkoff MD3, the keeppower and panasonic cells fit without any length issues. Malkoff lights will fully tighten as intended using these cells


----------



## INFRNL

Did another test today for ModernFlame. Charlie w/AVS using Aw IMR 18490 1100mah unprotected cells. These cells were (just looked) purchased in Dec of 2013, not quite as old as i initially thought. They were only used once or twice and probably topped off a few times. They have been sitting untouched since then, so roughly 3 yrs. 

Got some interesting results. MF says he only gets around 43mins of useful runtime, so I started checking cells at 30mins to be safe. Test was on high mode. Cells were topped off before test

30mins: both cells @3.7v
40mins: both cells @3.63v
45mins: 1 [email protected], [email protected],6v: this is where the separation starts and is nearing the end of the run. So when voltage starts separating I conclude it's close to time to swap out for new cells
50mins: [email protected], 2nd 3.54: not a big difference but slowly spreading
55mins: [email protected], 2nd 3.47v: now we are seeing a difference and I suggest swapping at this point
1hr::::: 1st cell 2.5v, 2nd 3.02v: At this point the light was still at or near full output and producing heat. cells after roughly 30mins rest leveled out to 2.95v and 3.2v

I would say 55mins is the absolute max safe runtime on these cells. It is crazy how quickly the voltage changes at the end of the run. in 5 mins we went from 3.3v to 2.5v. 

Prime example of why I do not wish to use unprotected cells in these lights without additional built in low voltage protection. At least i now know that these will provide 55mins of full output then need to be swapped. Not a great deal more than MF but noticeable. and i believe this is using the same cells he was for getting the 43min times.

Hope this helps and i will add this info to my list wherever it may be now(page or 2 back)


Just a note: the new AW IMR 18490 cells are 1200mah: this may or may not get us to the 1hr mark. Might be just enough to hit it but not certain


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> Did another test today for ModernFlame. Charlie w/AVS using Aw IMR 18490 1100mah unprotected cells. These cells were (just looked) purchased in Dec of 2013, not quite as old as i initially thought. They were only used once or twice and probably topped off a few times. They have been sitting untouched since then, so roughly 3 yrs.
> 
> Got some interesting results. MF says he only gets around 43mins of useful runtime, so I started checking cells at 30mins to be safe. Test was on high mode. Cells were topped off before test
> 
> 30mins: both cells @3.7v
> 40mins: both cells @3.63v
> 45mins: 1 [email protected], [email protected],6v: this is where the separation starts and is nearing the end of the run. So when voltage starts separating I conclude it's close to time to swap out for new cells
> 50mins: [email protected], 2nd 3.54: not a big difference but slowly spreading
> 55mins: [email protected], 2nd 3.47v: now we are seeing a difference and I suggest swapping at this point
> 1hr::::: 1st cell 2.5v, 2nd 3.02v: At this point the light was still at or near full output and producing heat. cells after roughly 30mins rest leveled out to 2.95v and 3.2v
> 
> I would say 55mins is the absolute max safe runtime on these cells. It is crazy how quickly the voltage changes at the end of the run. in 5 mins we went from 3.3v to 2.5v.
> 
> Prime example of why I do not wish to use unprotected cells in these lights without additional built in low voltage protection. At least i now know that these will provide 55mins of full output then need to be swapped. Not a great deal more than MF but noticeable. and i believe this is using the same cells he was for getting the 43min times.
> 
> Hope this helps and i will add this info to my list wherever it may be now(page or 2 back)
> 
> 
> Just a note: the new AW IMR 18490 cells are 1200mah: this may or may not get us to the 1hr mark. Might be just enough to hit it but not certain



These numbers are very...illuminating. Thanks for taking the time. My 18490's are 1200 mAh. For anyone who is interested, I just did a run time test with a bored Charlie running on two AW unprotected 2200 mAh 18650's with a Solarforce 18350 extender and tailcap. In that configuration, it's neither good lookin nor pocket friendly, but I just tested it at 1 hour and 15 minutes. The cells were at 3.56 and 3.55 volts after cooling off. Feeling pretty confident that I could push them to 1 hour and 30 minutes, but I want to check the voltage at intervals after 1 hour and 20 minutes to make sure I do not over discharge the cells.


----------



## INFRNL

Good idea. I went to a certain point then went 5 min intervals just to be safe cause i already knew it would go from good to done in no time. 

Thanks for sharing this with us, definitely will help someone that is curious


Modernflame said:


> These numbers are very...illuminating. Thanks for taking the time. My 18490's are 1200 mAh. For anyone who is interested, I just did a run time test with a bored Charlie running on two AW unprotected 2200 mAh 18650's with a Solarforce 18350 extender and tailcap. In that configuration, it's neither good lookin nor pocket friendly, but I just tested it at 1 hour and 15 minutes. The cells were at 3.56 and 3.55 volts after cooling off. Feeling pretty confident that I could push them to 1 hour and 30 minutes, but I want to check the voltage at intervals after 1 hour and 20 minutes to make sure I do not over discharge the cells.


----------



## vadimax

Strange observation: B343 on Sanyo 16650 was quite dim because of low voltage. Suddenly it refused to turn on once. When I have checked the cell with a DMM it appeared to be 2.88V. Elzettas are generic cell oriented, so they should not react to Li-Ion low voltage... in theory  But what was that? An undocumented AVS warning?


----------



## Grizzman

If it was 2.88 volts without a load, it's possible that the load from the head was causing enough voltage sag to trip the cell's protection circuit. 

A CR123 with 2.885 volts resting won't fire up an AVS, so it seems it won't completely drain a Li-Ion.


----------



## vadimax

Grizzman said:


> If it was 2.88 volts without a load, it's painless that the load from the head was causing enough voltage sag to trip the cell's protection circuit.
> 
> A CR123 with 2.885 volts resting won't fire up an AVS, so it seems it won't completely drain a Li-Ion.



As I have written "once". When I pressed the button next time within a second the light lit up normally.


----------



## Grizzman

Was it a protected cell?


----------



## vadimax

Grizzman said:


> Was it a protected cell?



It is Sanyo UR16650ZTA 4.35V 2500mAh. Unprotected.


----------



## Slumber

vadimax said:


> As I have written "once". When I pressed the button next time within a second the light lit up normally.



Batteries recover a bit from voltage sag when you remove the load. It may have not had enough power left to turn the light on, but enough to keep it running dimly (before you turned it off).


----------



## Modernflame

Anyone else ever do this? Bored out Charlie with a Solarforce 18350 extender and switch. The run time on 2 x 18650's is great, but I wish someone would make an Elzetta compatible battery tube this length so I can use my high low tail caps.


----------



## Grizzman

Modernflame said:


> Anyone else ever do this?



Nope, not with a Solarforce extension. :devil:


----------



## bykfixer

Woah, woah, woah!! Wait a minute... 
That is pretty cool!!! 
thinking: brain contemplating a 9volt Bones )


----------



## INFRNL

That surprisingly does not look horrible. Should give you killer runtime too. 
A single 18650 in the bravo gives me 3-3.25hrs of full output(around 4hrs of useable light iirc and 5hrs till cutoff), which is more than enough for my use. You should easily get 6-8hrs of full-usable output with that setup. I myself would just run the charlie with 18650 and spacer/dummy to fill the gap.

Are you willing to do a runtime test on that? would have to keep it cool somehow


----------



## Grizzman

For those of you that are seriously interested in a tricked out, attractive looking, 4 cell Elzetta, read on.

It should be possible for a machinist to create an Elzetta version of the A19 extender from a Bravo, and it should also be able to be bored to accept 18mm cells. This should be no more difficult than creating a Surefire extender by cutting down a 6P. It's very likely that a high/low tailcap would work, since the threads could be made to match the Elzetta standard.

In addition to creating a single cell extender, if a Charlie were the host, the parted off drop-in socket section could probably be re-threaded to become an Alpha-ish light that accepts Malkoff drop-ins.

There's a fellow on this forum that goes by the name of MartinDWhite. He has been cutting down two cell lights to create one cell lights for several years, and his machining skills seem to be adequate. He may be a starting point if you're interested in gathering more info.


----------



## scs

If you bought a whole light from Elzetta, then got the body bored out, would Elzetta refuse warranty service on the head or tail just because the light (its body only really) has been modified?


----------



## Grizzman

I don't know if they'd refuse warranty service. I have enough bodies that if I needed to ship a head or tail to Elzetta for warranty work, it would be attached to a stock body.


----------



## Modernflame

Grizzman said:


> I don't know if they'd refuse warranty service. I have enough bodies that if I needed to ship a head or tail to Elzetta for warranty work, it would be attached to a stock body.



Agree. I can't see why the bored out body would void the warranty, since technically a bored out Charlie is running on 8.4 volts max instead of 9, while the Bravo is running on 4.2 volts instead of 6. That said, I'd probably not gamble and find out. If I ever had to use Elzetta's warranty, I would either send the head or tail cap back by itself, or reinstall a stock body.


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> That surprisingly does not look horrible. Should give you killer runtime too.
> A single 18650 in the bravo gives me 3-3.25hrs of full output(around 4hrs of useable light iirc and 5hrs till cutoff), which is more than enough for my use. You should easily get 6-8hrs of full-usable output with that setup. I myself would just run the charlie with 18650 and spacer/dummy to fill the gap.
> 
> Are you willing to do a runtime test on that? would have to keep it cool somehow



You can count on run time tests soon. My run time tests are not sophisticated. I'll just drink a beer and run the flashlight this evening. When the light gets hot, I'll dunk the head of the light in a glass of water. As long as I don't accidentally dunk the light in my beer, I'll be a very happy run time testing fellow tonight.


----------



## Modernflame

Grizzman said:


> For those of you that are seriously interested in a tricked out, attractive looking, 4 cell Elzetta, read on.
> 
> It should be possible for a machinist to create an Elzetta version of the A19 extender from a Bravo, and it should also be able to be bored to accept 18mm cells. This should be no more difficult than creating a Surefire extender by cutting down a 6P. It's very likely that a high/low tailcap would work, since the threads could be made to match the Elzetta standard.
> 
> In addition to creating a single cell extender, if a Charlie were the host, the parted off drop-in socket section could probably be re-threaded to become an Alpha-ish light that accepts Malkoff drop-ins.
> 
> There's a fellow on this forum that goes by the name of MartinDWhite. He has been cutting down two cell lights to create one cell lights for several years, and his machining skills seem to be adequate. He may be a starting point if you're interested in gathering more info.



I hope it won't be received as impertinent, but I've just sent a private message to MartinDWhite. Just hoping to find out if he'd be interested.


----------



## INFRNL

MF, you changed your Avatar?

Your tests are about like mine. I do simple tests as well, unless i'm bored; I might break out the temp gun so i can get an accurate time of when they quite producing heat. 

Let us know what Martin says. I'm not interested in an extension tube but I would be interested in a real Alpha or even a single 18500 light (would be more ideal)

I sent him a message & email last night about some things unrelated to elzetta. Hopefully he will respond.



As far as the warranty deal, I imagine they would just want the head back for testing/repair/replacement; not the whole unit.


Brilliant idea Grizz, much better than putting 3rd cousin pieces on. Would look killer having a matching extender or 18350-18500 body:thumbsup:


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> MF, you changed your Avatar?
> 
> Your tests are about like mine. I do simple tests as well, unless i'm bored; I might break out the temp gun so i can get an accurate time of when they quite producing heat.
> 
> Let us know what Martin says. I'm not interested in an extension tube but I would be interested in a real Alpha or even a single 18500 light (would be more ideal)
> 
> I sent him a message & email last night about some things unrelated to elzetta. Hopefully he will respond.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the warranty deal, I imagine they would just want the head back for testing/repair/replacement; not the whole unit.
> 
> 
> Brilliant idea Grizz, much better than putting 3rd cousin pieces on. Would look killer having a matching extender or 18350-18500 body:thumbsup:



I'd like to make the world's first Elzetta Delta. I'm serious about sending him a Bravo Body for the chopping block. We'll see what he says.

Yeah, no offense to the powers that be, but this website is a bit archaic. But yes, I'm finding my way around.


----------



## Grizzman

Naturally, if a single cell extension could be made, then a double cell extension could also be made. This will allow Bravo owners to "upgrade" to a Delta.

I'd be curious to see if an Elzetta extension would allow a high/low tailcap to function completely on other lights.


----------



## Modernflame

Grizzman said:


> Naturally, if a single cell extension could be made, then a double cell extension could also be made. This will allow Bravo owners to "upgrade" to a Delta.
> 
> I'd be curious to see if an Elzetta extension would allow a high/low tailcap to function completely on other lights.



I wish Elzetta would just sell them this way. If you have a Bravo, then you can buy a one cell or a two cell extension and make a Charlie or a Delta. Everything is able to accept 18mm cells. The Bones is a great leap forward for them, but I don't understand their reticence about 18mm cells in their modular product line. True, primaries have their advantages, but you can still use 16mm cells in the bored out battery tubes. They don't rattle at all in my bored out Charlie. Versatility and modularity are part of Elzetta's appeal. Why not give the user more flexibility? And while they are at it, they could offer a third optic that is made for throw. I love the standard optic, but there are times when I wish the Charlie had 18,000 lux instead of 12,000.

Elzetta's AVS is one of my favorite devices for a lot of reasons, but I think Elzetta gets a little preachy sometimes about the way a flashlight is supposed to be. I could be way off base here, though. Just one guy's opinion.


----------



## INFRNL

I know they have the bones but maybe with the bravo or charlie they stick to the 16mm for their toughest flashlight on the planet motto. Yes making them 18mm is still tough, vut no longer the toughest, idk.

Really don't have an answer. There is obviously a reason why they are sticking to 16mm...we just don't have a definite answer


----------



## Rob Babcock

Probably it's that if they were all 18mm CR123a batteries would rattle/slop around a bit. For "serious" applications they're adamant that rechargeables are not suitable so they set the lights up for the 'proper' battery.

Apropos of nothing I wish the made an Alpha2​, basically just like an Alpha but 2 x CR123a.


----------



## INFRNL

Maybe my head is not calculating correctly but wouldn't this be a bravo with 16650? I have never seen the Alpha beam nor the light, so for the most part i have no idea what I'm talking about. I like the size of the alpha for certain use, but have mixed feelings about the head itself. Kind of a mixed bag of results from what i have read the past couple months. 



Rob Babcock said:


> Probably it's that if they were all 18mm CR123a batteries would rattle/slop around a bit. For "serious" applications they're adamant that rechargeables are not suitable so they set the lights up for the 'proper' battery.
> 
> Apropos of nothing I wish the made an Alpha2​, basically just like an Alpha but 2 x CR123a.


----------



## vadimax

Rob Babcock said:


> Probably it's that if they were all 18mm CR123a batteries would rattle/slop around a bit. For "serious" applications they're adamant that rechargeables are not suitable so they set the lights up for the 'proper' battery.
> 
> Apropos of nothing I wish the made an Alpha2​, basically just like an Alpha but 2 x CR123a.



Wait. How have you done that superscript "2"?


----------



## dc38

INFRNL said:


> Maybe my head is not calculating correctly but wouldn't this be a bravo with 16650? I have never seen the Alpha beam nor the light, so for the most part i have no idea what I'm talking about. I like the size of the alpha for certain use, but have mixed feelings about the head itself. Kind of a mixed bag of results from what i have read the past couple months.



The alpha has a slimmer and shorter head profile.


----------



## dc38

vadimax said:


> Wait. How have you done that superscript "2"?



If you reply with quote in mobile, you can see the text formatting lol... it is
[ SUP] WORD HERE [/SUP ]Without the spaces.

It shouls look like this  WORD HERE ​ DOWN HERE ​ is more fun though

drive​people​crazy​


----------



## Grizzman

The Alpha is also like the Bones, with a head machined as part of the body, This eliminates the ability to use drop-ins.


----------



## INFRNL

Grizzman said:


> The Alpha is also like the Bones, with a head machined as part of the body, This eliminates the ability to use drop-ins.



Too bad, they should have made it with separate head, then i would be apt to get one

I honestly think the Bravo is my favorite. I like the output of the Charlie more but runtimes on 18500s is not the best, although just over1.5hrs is actually plenty for my current needs.


----------



## Rob Babcock

INFRNL said:


> Maybe my head is not calculating correctly but wouldn't this be a bravo with 16650? I have never seen the Alpha beam nor the light, so for the most part i have no idea what I'm talking about. I like the size of the alpha for certain use, but have mixed feelings about the head itself. Kind of a mixed bag of results from what i have read the past couple months.




The head of the Alpha is part of the body and is much much smaller than the AVS head of the Bravo/Charlie lights. Basically I wish they sold a 2 cell version of the Alpha since the smaller head would make it a bit more pocketable.


----------



## INFRNL

What is the diameter of the head on the Alpha? I can agree the avs head is notably large for pocket carry and the low pro head for M61's is smaller but still over an inch in dia. I haven't tried to carry a Bravo with avs yet in the pocket, probably wouldn't want it for edc but i have others to fill that niche if need be. I actually do not edc any lights more just use at times at night. Now that weather is getting warmer, things will be a little different but i probably only use my lights for about 15-20 mins at a time. 

Maybe they are working on a mini bones that would fit what you are looking for.



Rob Babcock said:


> The head of the Alpha is part of the body and is much much smaller than the AVS head of the Bravo/Charlie lights. Basically I wish they sold a 2 cell version of the Alpha since the smaller head would make it a bit more pocketable.


----------



## Grizzman

The Alpha's head diameter is 1.135" while the low profile Bravo bezel diameter is 1.250".


----------



## INFRNL

Grizzman said:


> The Alpha's head diameter is 1.135" while the low profile Bravo bezel diameter is 1.250".



So that's hardly a difference. I was doing some stuff with my lights tonight and realized the bravo with lo-pro bezel is easily pocketable. 

However the avs head adds a bit more bulk and probably wouldn't be my first choice to put in my pocket:laughing:


----------



## Rob Babcock

INFRNL said:


> So that's hardly a difference. I was doing some stuff with my lights tonight and realized the bravo with lo-pro bezel is easily pocketable.
> 
> However the avs head adds a bit more bulk and probably wouldn't be my first choice to put in my pocket:laughing:



I can't find my calipers right now but the difference in size is more dramatic than Grizz's numbers would suggest. In actual practice the size difference is pretty striking if you lay them next to each other.


----------



## Grizzman

I will take a side by size photo this morning. I have confirmed my measurements.


----------



## Grizzman

It seems I don't own a standard bezel for the Alpha, so that'll probably get added to my next order. The diameter difference isn't that great, but the head's shorter length makes it feel much smaller in the pocket.

Here they are:


----------



## INFRNL

Damn Grizz, that's a nice picture.

It's too bad they didn't make the alpha for drop-ins, then the one piece body/head would be ok.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Good pic but the AVS head is considerably larger. The low profile head does work great for daily carry although I like the Vorlon/Klingon head.


----------



## Grizzman

If a photo with AVS added is needed, I can do that.

It should be obvious to all that the Alpha is a LOT smaller than the AVS. The measurement I provided was for a low profile Bravo head for drop-ins, since small size is the theme here.


----------



## INFRNL

Might as well add it or a new pic with all three. every thread need more pics anyways, especially great quality pics as this:twothumbs


----------



## Grizzman

Here's a quick photo with an Alpha, a low profile Bravo, a standard Bravo, and a Bravo with standard AVS.






Ignore the head/body gaps, since none of them are tight.


----------



## xdayv

Elzettans... can the Alpha run safely on a 16340 (RCR)?


----------



## Grizzman

xdayv said:


> Elzettans... can the Alpha run safely on a 16340 (RCR)?



Absolutely, and output is noticeably increased.


----------



## xdayv

Grizzman said:


> Absolutely, and output is noticeably increased.


 
Glad to hear. Been a CR123 snob for a lil' while now... Thanks Grizz.


----------



## the0dore3524

Sheesh that's a lot of Elzettas. You have me jealous [emoji19]. Btw, Grizzman, where did you pick up the alternative head for the Alpha? I've never seen one before.


----------



## Grizzman

I initially had a Charlie with the others, but it just didn't look right, so I grabbed another Bravo. I guess I could have included a Bravo with crenellated head, and an AVS with crenellated bezel ring, but they're the same diameter as the others shown.

The Alpha's bezel is wearing a Mini-CQB Bezel ring, and they are available separately directly from Elzetta. They are significantly less aggressive than the crenellated bezel, yet still allow light to escape if stood vertically.


----------



## RI Chevy

I will help a little.


----------



## INFRNL

Nice, you even kept a wood background :thumbsup:

Great pics grizz and chevy. They all look great
Alpha sure is a cute little thing i imagine it would have the length similar to an mdc123 but larger diameter


----------



## Rob Babcock

Lots of nice pics!


----------



## DAN92

Elzetta Bones (650 Lumens).








Great light!


----------



## Kamerat

My dear alpha fell 60-70 cm onto its butt, i.e. the high low tail switch. It didn't like the meet with the bathroom tiles and the light has decided to only show me high. Very disappointed.


----------



## FDP

Oh no. Do you have local representation for Elzetta?


----------



## Modernflame

I've often wondered about the durability of the high/low tail cap since the resistor is the only piece of gadgetry that is not within the "fully potted" module. Still, if it breaks you won't be left in the dark because the high beam will operate normally. I have every confidence that Elzetta will replace your tail cap.


----------



## Kamerat

The high output works perfectly. No, I've no local shop (in Europe). I'll try sending an email to Elzetta, maybe they will pay the postal cost for the sending of the tail.


----------



## peter yetman

It's probably best to contact Elzetta direct, but just so as you know knivesandtools.com are stockists and are over here. They have UK, French, German and Dutch sites.
P


----------



## Modernflame

I've read reports that at close range the Alpha shows a square beam profile. I wonder, is this true? If so, at what range does the square shape of the die blend into the round shape of the lens?


----------



## Grizzman

Yes, at close range this is true. I owned one for over a year, and didn't know it.

I don't think it's the die shape that causes it, since the spot portion of the beam is always round. The inner portion of the spill is what isn't round.

At a distance of 6 feet it's only noticeable if you look very closely, or hold the light steady and rotate it....something that would never occur in typical usage. At much beyond 6 feet, the spill goes from floor to ceiling, so it becomes irrelevant.


----------



## INFRNL

ModernFlame: did you get around to any runtime tests on those cells? Curious how they compare to your original results


----------



## Modernflame

My next test will be the Elzetta Charlie (or should I say Delta) on a pair of protected 3400 mAh 18650's, but I have not done the test yet. That's slated for a weekend soon. In the mean time, I've initiated discussion with Martin D White about creating a proper Elzetta battery tube extension from an Elzetta flashlight body. Still working out some details. He responded to my PM, but now I'm waiting for an email response.


----------



## INFRNL

Nice, I hope he gets you hooked up and price is worth doing it. Would an alpha body work for the extension? Not sure which body would be cheapest to buy

This reminds me, i was supposed to get back to Martin with my order. I'll send him an email later


----------



## Modernflame

I still have had no response from Martin. I'm in no rush, but it seems odd that it would take so long. I'm beginning to wonder if I got his email address wrong.


----------



## DAN92

There is apparently a problem with the website Elzetta. :thinking:


----------



## scout24

Loads and works fine from here, I just configured an Alpha, but didn't purchase it...


----------



## DAN92

scout24 said:


> Loads and works fine from here, I just configured an Alpha, but didn't purchase it...


It's the home page that has a problem.

There is this message that appears: 

*Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '<' in /home/content/p3pnexwpnas03_data03/10/3116810/html/wp-content/themes/Avada/functions.php on line 781*


----------



## DAN92

Problem solved at the moment, I quote Elzetta: "Sorry. It is working properly now".

Thank you. :thumbsup:


----------



## Modernflame

At some point, I got a very small amount of Molykote 55 on the inside of one of my optics. Since my standard and flood optics are frequently interchanged, they've all picked up a bit. It does not affect the performance of the light at all, but still find it annoying. I've given all of the lenses a repeated hot soapy water treatment but to no avail. I've even removed and washed the white lens housing that drops into the AVS head. Anyone know a better way to clean it off?
Actually, I don't see how any lubricant could still remain. It might just be abrasion marks from the repeated rubbing. Not the end of the world. I just wonder if anyone has had the experience.


----------



## vadimax

Just out of curiosity: has anyone tried an alternative TIR Carclo with an AVS head?


----------



## Modernflame

I've tried. I still have two 30mm Carclo optics in my junk drawer. Elzetta's optics are actually 32 mm and I found that out the hard way. The Carclo optics were also shallower than the Elzetta's and produced a floodier beam pattern with a square shaped hot spot. I was actually trying to find an alternative lens that would increase the peak candela, but the Carclo website is a complete mystery to me and I don't know if they have optics that would fit. If you're interested I can add photos and I can probably still dig up the invoice with the exact product number. 

Recently, I noticed a Facebook post from Elzetta that said their optics are proprietary and not outsourced to a third party manufacturer. I'd love to know if anyone has any input. In the mean time, I will continue to dream of an Elzetta throw lens.



vadimax said:


> Just out of curiosity: has anyone tried an alternative TIR Carclo with an AVS head?


----------



## scout24

It would seem, since they are proprietary, that developing a more throw oriented optic and offering it as an option at purchase or as a stand alone part would be worth their time.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Agreed

A pencil beam'd Bones would definitely cause a perma-grin on this guys face. 
If it had a pencil like the old Streamlight TL2 LED, man I can't imagine how far that sucker would throw, or how much better it would drill through smoke/fog.


----------



## Grizzman

I think tinge AVS spot optic is great as it is, but would be interested in a super spot option. 

I personally consider the Alpha optics to be flood and mostly flood. I'd be very interested in an Alpha optic that generates more throw.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I love the AVS just as it is but I agree, having more optics options would be sweet! Elzetta's product line is very small which is good and bad; good because it does what they want it do extremely well. But "bad" for sales because there really isn't much reason to buy a bunch of their lights beyond having one of each. I have a lot more Malkoff stuff simply because they make more stuff- more tints, more output levels, more models, etc. It seems like developing more optics would be a win/win situation. They could keep their product line tight while expanding their market share a bit by letting those few basic products fill more niches.

A tightly focused 'throw' optic would be fantastic for an AVS set up for use on a long gun.


----------



## Modernflame

Exactly. I applaud the narrowness of their product line, but one of Elzetta's hallmarks is modularity. It seems they could offer a throw optic and remain true to their philosophy.


----------



## bykfixer

Building great flashlights is a double edge sword. Reputation brings in customers. But lifetime durability prevents them from returning.

I think Elzetta knows that. Looking at their lineup on options it appears they prefer to keep the spill numbers up to a degree while adding throw to the updates. Man, I'd love an Alpha T (for thrower), but the update to the 415 model was so ridiculously better while only adding 100 lumens over the 315 version I was completely satisfied. The slightly warmer tint kept the charm of the close quarters (non self blinder) aspect while attaining a very noticable difference in throw. 

As a viable business, unless there tended to be a return to all things pure throw I think Elzetta has done a great job at answering the call and that the demand for a pure thrower would be only from a very small group such as CPF'rs that it just wouldn't be practical. But then again they may go that route as an option at some point if they see a benefit in terms of tactical use... afterall that's the intended role of Elzetta products... tactical use.

I have certain lights where the pure throw is the charm. Lights that reach out and light narrow areas at a great distance without needing a ton of lumens. So to me the ideal would be to come up with a product that can throw a quarter mile but use modern efficiency throttled back to give outstanding run times. Example would be a 250 lumen Bravo with a pencil beam that can run 6 hours on a pair of primaries at full output.


----------



## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> As a viable business, unless there tended to be a return to all things pure throw I think Elzetta has done a great job at answering the call and that the demand for a pure thrower would be only from a very small group such as CPF'rs that it just wouldn't be practical.



I dunno. I think a good punchy hot spot has fairly broad appeal. I'm not really advocating for a pure thrower, just well defined hot spot. The AVS has less reach than other lights with similar specs.


----------



## Grizzman

I'm also not interested in a pure thrower, just more of an all purpose optic with well defined hot spot.


----------



## wimmer21

I would most definitely be buying if Elzetta offered a pure thrower or even just a more "throw oriented optic" in their existing lights.


----------



## tab665

it does seem a thrower optic would make sense since they have a flood optic option. one light, three beam options.


----------



## scs

tab665 said:


> it does seem a thrower optic would make sense since they have a flood optic option. one light, three beam options.



You know them Elzetta guys. They're about practical tactical. They'd have to be convinced there are valid tactical applications for a throw beam in THEIR lights. Any suggestions for them?


----------



## scout24

As a longer distance weapon light, for one. The fact that less sidespill won't expose your team mates during cqb scenarios, etc... Maybe just broadening their user base to include SAR types who may need more reach than the current lineup, but like Elzetta's quality and durability. How about because a bunch of internet flashlight geeks want it???


----------



## scs

scout24 said:


> As a longer distance weapon light, for one. The fact that less sidespill won't expose your team mates during cqb scenarios, etc... Maybe just broadening their user base to include SAR types who may need more reach than the current lineup, but like Elzetta's quality and durability. How about because a bunch of internet flashlight geeks want it???



I don't know...Elzetta is very big on peripheral illumination, especially for CQB, as can been seen in one of their video blogs.


----------



## scout24

Just blue sky stuff here. Maybe an idea will have merit, and we'll see that throw optic. Hog hunters? Varmint hunters? (Weapon light) I understand tactics have changed some, and it sounds like for the better. (Thanks for the PM!  )


----------



## INFRNL

I finally got a chance to play with an alpha for a few. I agree with Grizz. 

While it's a nice little light and does very well for close range, it would be nice for it to have a little more throw.

Same goes for the avs, very nice light but just a little short on throw.

An alpha that could use either mini avs and/or m61 would be ideal


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> Just blue sky stuff here. Maybe an idea will have merit, and we'll see that throw optic. Hog hunters? Varmint hunters? (Weapon light) I understand tactics have changed some, and it sounds like for the better. (Thanks for the PM!  )



An aquaintence of mine who is well versed in tactics uses his throwey weapon mounted light for hog hunting in Texas and low light shooting matches. 
He prefers a "single scoop of ice cream on a cone" shaped beam for room clearing.


----------



## INFRNL

@modernflame: did you ever get a chance to do any runtime tests or at least conclude that you are hopefully getting more than 45mins runtime now?


----------



## cp2315

Currently amazon has 2 cell m60 elzetta for $98. Just in case someone wants it.


----------



## Modernflame

The fact that they have to create videos to convince people why they need less candella should be an indication that most people appreciate candella in a flashlight. If your job entails clearing dark rooms of miscreants, you can still get the flood or standard optic. But yes, I think a long range, rifle mounted application should be reason for them to consider a third optic.

Know how desperate I am? I actually emailed Wade at Elzetta with a link to this thread and asked him to consider our discussion. He responded promptly and cordially. Not sure what effect, if any, our discussion had on him.


@ INFRNL. My Charlie is getting over an hour on the 18490's that you donated to my cause. I think I could push it a little further but I'm careful with the unprotected cells. The "Delta" configuration got me about 1hr and 45 minutes worth of high output, but one of the protected cells cut off. The cells are working fine, but I have not repeated the test. Welcome back. Been on the road?


----------



## INFRNL

What ever came about on the elzetta extension to create your Delta? Did you and Martin ever talk or get anything figured out?

Yes, I've been busy. Just got back home the other day after 3 weeks on the road. 

Seems like the threads i visit have been slow. Everyone out enjoying the weather doing more exciting things


----------



## TMedina

INFRNL said:


> An alpha that could use either mini avs and/or m61 would be ideal



I would have scooped one up when they came out, if I could use it as a P60-style host.


----------



## INFRNL

TMedina said:


> I would have scooped one up when they came out, if I could use it as a P60-style host.


This is the only thing that holds me back from buying one. Although it is a nice light in its own right. They actually did a good job on it. Tint color is nice, similar to AVS; floody with decent range.


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> What ever came about on the elzetta extension to create your Delta? Did you and Martin ever talk or get anything figured out?
> 
> Yes, I've been busy. Just got back home the other day after 3 weeks on the road.
> 
> Seems like the threads i visit have been slow. Everyone out enjoying the weather doing more exciting things



I never heard back from Martin. I'm certain that I sent an email to the address he provided, but I'm wondering if maybe something else went wrong. Just as well. I've got other financial priorities right now. I'll revisit the discussion with him another time.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> I never heard back from Martin. I'm certain that I sent an email to the address he provided, but I'm wondering if maybe something else went wrong. Just as well. I've got other financial priorities right now. I'll revisit the discussion with him another time.



bummer. I'll pm you his email just so you can verify that it's correct.; for when the time comes again. He responded to mine within a day initially and all others even quicker. Well I hope your detour will not be a long one and you can get in touch with him. Would be killer to get it to work how you envision


----------



## hatman

I bought the 315 lumen Alpha when it was introduced.

Does anyone think it is worth replacing with a 415 lumen version?


----------



## INFRNL

I'm not one to answer this but I've heard there is a good difference from the 415 to 315. Since they are having 20%off, you could get the 415 and sell the 315 to help recoup some of the cost. Or just keep both


----------



## RI Chevy

A while back it was mentioned that the tints were a little different. I have the 315 lumen version. I am happy with both the tint and the operation.


----------



## bykfixer

hatman said:


> I bought the 315 lumen Alpha when it was introduced.
> 
> Does anyone think it is worth replacing with a 415 lumen version?



If you like the floody 315 for close quarter action don't buy the 415. If you want your 315 to have more throw... yeah the 415 is worth it as it seems that was where Elzetta placed the extra lumens. 

Tint wise if you prefer cool white on the edge of neutral then stick with the 315. If you'd like it to look closer to the color of a lightbulb the 415 is worth it. 




Side by side wall pic.
Note the angle I had them caused the oval shaped spot. Spot on both is round.

Thwart the nit-picker pix...







See? Told ya they are round. 






315 at 25'




415 same distance












Left is 315, Right is 415
Note: Bezel and OD at the lens of both are the same size. My phone cam made it appear like the bezel and lens of the 415 is larger.




Virtually the same.

Frankly I use my old version way more than the 415. Great fot lighting rooms without blinding yourself. Call it an indoor cop light.
But if I could only have 1 flashlight and had a pair of Alphas to pick between the 415 would be the best all around of the two. Probably a better backup for folks who spend more time on duty outdoors.


----------



## INFRNL

Going off those pics, I'd definitely go for the 415


----------



## bykfixer

The first version was a very misunderstood flashlight. Many a customer were looking for a more general purpose light as a backup to a larger version. Elzetta touted it as a backup light, which would indicate to most that it mimics their larger lights in a smaller package.

Instead it was more like a little 25 snub nose revolver vs a 45 revolver with a 6" barrel. It's a great light for it's intended purpose, which is close up action or using as a 'flashlight grenade' etc.... . Very technical leo indoor tactics can be achieved effectively with the 315 where the 415 is suited for outdoors use.


----------



## Modernflame

Thanks for the pics, bykfixer! I'm quite surprised to find so much difference between the two models since the candela rating on the Elzetta website (1900cd) did not increase with the 415lm version. I just thought they must have made the beam even wider.


----------



## INFRNL

bykfixer said:


> If you like the floody 315 for close quarter action don't buy the 415. If you want your 315 to have more throw... yeah the 415 is worth it as it seems that was where Elzetta placed the extra lumens.
> 
> Tint wise if you prefer cool white on the edge of neutral then stick with the 315. If you'd like it to look closer to the color of a lightbulb the 415 is worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Virtually the same.
> 
> Frankly I use my old version way more than the 415. Great fot lighting rooms without blinding yourself. Call it an indoor cop light.
> But if I could only have 1 flashlight and had a pair of Alphas to pick between the 415 would be the best all around of the two. Probably a better backup for folks who spend more time on duty outdoors.



How did I miss this, is that a Copper Alpha??? That thing is sick!!!

I'm just not sure i need an Alpha with all the other lights i've been collecting...Although my collection is not complete without the Alpha.

I have A Bravo with AVS, Charlie with AVS, and Bravo with lo-pro bezel w/M361N. One AVS has flood lens


----------



## eraursls1984

INFRNL said:


> How did I miss this, is that a Copper Alpha??? That thing is sick!!!


That was the 2016 limited edition. It's copper plated.


----------



## INFRNL

eraursls1984 said:


> That was the 2016 limited edition. It's copper plated.



Wow, still looks great


----------



## hatman

Bykfixer -- great photos and thanks for the very useful comparison!

So the 415 Alpha has more of a yellowish tint and more throw?

What can I say -- I like them both.

I got my 315 when it was introduced in 2014. I was turned off by the somewhat square beam and the lack of a decent clip. For me, the Alpha clip sucked.

I put the Alpha in a drawer and didn't take it out until I moved and cleaned out the desk. By then I had more lights -- and more clips.

I had an extra Ti Prometheus clip from Dark Sucks -- one of my favorite clips -- and, holy smokes, it was a perfect fit for the Alpha.

Like they were made for each other.

With the Prometheus, the Alpha looks 100 percent improved. I am just a clip snob, I guess. 

I loaded a rechargeable lithium ion battery and took the dogs out on the front lawn.

The Alpha was perfect for this type of outing. With its close-order, floody beam, I can see everything I need to with respect to the dogs and their business without disturbing the neighbors with one of my powerful, throwy beam lights.

The tint is perfect for this.

Now I am really liking it. Everything except the relatively short run time on rechargeables. 

But I am also liking those darn photos of the 415 Alpha.

I would probably get the same lens, bezel and clicky tailcap. All I would need is another Prometheus clip.

But how would I tell two identical-looking Alphas apart?


----------



## Modernflame

I never wanted an Alpha until now. Those beam shots look great.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> I never wanted an Alpha until now. Those beam shots look great.



You and me both. I had a chance to play with one, i think it was a 315 (I'll have to check)and it actually did really well. I didn't even think about getting one, but now I'm having second thoughts.

I told myself I wasn't buying anymore lights but i might have to make an exception for an alpha. Plus it will finish off my little elzetta family.


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> You and me both. I had a chance to play with one, i think it was a 315 (I'll have to check)and it actually did really well. I didn't even think about getting one, but now I'm having second thoughts.
> 
> I told myself I wasn't buying anymore lights but i might have to make an exception for an alpha. Plus it will finish off my little elzetta family.



Hey INFRNL, do you use the Elzetta AVS flood lens or does the beam pattern overlap too much with your Wildcats? One reason why I have two AVS heads (apart from sheer maniacal addiction) is so that I can have one equipped with flood and the other with the standard optic.

However, I don't think I'd have a use for the Alpha flood lens. I think the beam pattern is wide enough with the standard optic.


----------



## bykfixer

At hatman;

Yes much more throw, and much warmer tint. In side by side testing it looks a like a whole lot more than 100 lumens difference.

The Alpha clip never appealed to me. The thought was that bulky ring that holds it would make it feel clumsy, but Elzetta may have figured it to be a combat ring for cigar hold...
My thought was it's a pocket light. A big-little pocket light that is. I can see where that Dark Sucks clip makes a lot of sense along with it's user friendly approach. 

When I bought an updated version of the Pelican 2350 it too was vastly different than it's previous version on the inside with an identical outside. Opposite of the Alpha it was a pencil beam'd light replaced with a broad beam similar to the 415 Alpha. "In a hurry, which is which?" I pondered...

I had bought the copper Alpha so that was easy to tell but when both are black- what to do?




I striped the modern one with a glittery enamel to tell in low light conditions.


----------



## INFRNL

bykfixer said:


> I striped the modern one with a glittery enamel to tell in low light conditions.


Glittery enamel(fingernail polish) or more like a model paint...
Good idea.


@modernflame: I'm embarrassed to say that i really haven't used my elzettas lately, because of my recent malkoff buying spree

I would say AVS flood, wildcat v6, and m91w all play a similar role with some overlap. However i like them all equally because they all have different tint colors. 

The avs flood probably has the shortest range, so i can only imagine what an alpha flood lens would be like. Although i bet it would be very useful in small areas. 

For the cost, it may be worth picking up the flood lens just to have and play with. Unless you know it would never get used.

I chose 2 avs, 1 flood, 1 regular for the same reasons as you


----------



## Modernflame

Does anyone use the Thrym Switchback with the Elzetta body? Supposedly, these things fit well enough that Elzetta sells them on their site, but I'm having trouble. Mine is the large size, not the little back up model. It comes with an O-ring, which is designed to sit in the neck of the flashlight and absorb the slack between the Swtichback and the body of the light. So I'm installing it.... 

1) I remove the tail cap.

2) I add the supplied O-ring to the "shelf" in the neck of the flashlight.

3) I install the Switchback.

4) I re-install the tail cap and tighten it.

The problem is that when I tighten the tail cap enough to actuate the high beam, the whole rig is so tight that the supplied O-ring squirts out of the side and down the body of the light. Now I've got the high beam, but no o-ring, so there's lots of slack and the Switchback spins around.

I remember being concerned about it when these were first released, but Elzetta assured me it would work with the high/low tail cap.


----------



## vudoo

Is there any new heads/dropins now available that is brighter than the 2 cell AVS head?


----------



## peter yetman

As far as I know, if you run the AVS on 3 cells you get a 50% increase in output.
P


----------



## hatman

bykfixer,

My Alpha 415 came and it is indeed more yellow with more throw.

I like both Alphas.

Or maybe i just wanted an excuse to use another Prometheus Ti clip.


----------



## vadimax

Blue Elzettas... Hmm... Not my cup of poison


----------



## kj2

I like the blue, but don't like how they did the engraving.


----------



## bykfixer

hatman said:


> bykfixer,
> 
> My Alpha 415 came and it is indeed more yellow with more throw.
> 
> I like both Alphas.
> 
> Or maybe i just wanted an excuse to use another Prometheus Ti clip.



Good deal. Any reason to buy a nice belt clip is a good reason. 

I like 'em both as well, but they are vastly different in output. 
The 415 imo is an awesome backup to the Bones. If you've ever seen the beam from that I think you'll understand what I mean. Very similar tint, similar beam, just not the reach of those 700+ lumens.


----------



## Rob Babcock

That is certainly very...blue! Interesting looks.


----------



## Modernflame

Smurfy! I'll have mine in gray.


----------



## xdayv

bykfixer said:


>



Beautiful. I want a copper alpha! :mecry:


----------



## vadimax

xdayv said:


> Beautiful. I want a copper alpha! :mecry:



This one is not copper, but copper covered. Having in mind copper is soft metal it is a shelf queen, not EDC beater. Would lose its bling in no time exposing the body aluminum.


----------



## bykfixer

vadimax said:


> This one is not copper, but copper covered. Having in mind copper is soft metal it is a shelf queen, not EDC beater. Would lose its bling in no time exposing the body aluminum.



There is this thing called "hard copper" as well. It's used in all kinds of stuff.
Flashlights have been made out of it for decades. If memory serves there's even a copper flashlight thread or two around here.
Pennies used to be made of 100% copper but it began to cost more than the face value of the coin itself to make it pure so now since 1988 they have a zinc core.




This has been EDC'd by somebody or other for nearly 40 years. 
I just plucked it from my pocket change I carry everyday.

Lots of bling left on this copper coated zinc coin...



After 16 years or so....

Meanwhile back to our topic...


----------



## Modernflame

Show off your special edition Elzettas! Who's got gray, blue, yellow, or copper?

I think the copper Alpha is a winner.


----------



## RI Chevy

Still waiting for a nice camo or digi camo special edition.


----------



## kj2

Camo version would be awesome! Really like the yellow Alpha too. Wish I'd one[emoji14]


----------



## Modernflame

Camo is a non-starter with me. I'd be on board with a brass Elzetta, though.


----------



## Rob Babcock

kj2 said:


> Camo version would be awesome! Really like the yellow Alpha too. Wish I'd one[emoji14]



Yeah, I wish I'd have jumped on the yellow when they had it. You snooze you lose I guess.


----------



## kj2

Rob Babcock said:


> Yeah, I wish I'd have jumped on the yellow when they had it. You snooze you lose I guess.


I passed at that moment because I ordered a regular Alpha a week before. Was pulling my hair when Elzetta released the LE Alpha a week later[emoji14]


----------



## teak

Well, even though I owned a 315 lumen alpha and gave it away as a gift years ago. I just ordered the 415 and high/low alpha. These days I use my HDS primarily but I wanted a simple rugged single cell light. Surefire is a no go for me these days. Sad I must say but... curious to see if I like the updated alpha. Appears they upped the low output to 15 lumens? If so that's even better. 7 lumens is too low for me. 15 is just about right. Can anyone with a new alpha confirm the low is higher now? Resistor change in the tailcap I'm sure.


----------



## Modernflame

teak said:


> . Appears they upped the low output to 15 lumens? If so that's even better. 7 lumens is too low for me. 15 is just about right. Can anyone with a new alpha confirm the low is higher now? Resistor change in the tailcap I'm sure.



I've been hoping for an answer to this question for quite a while. I'd also like to know how exactly they increased the high beam output and the run time simultaneously. A different emitter? Never have seen the specs. Notwithstanding, the Alpha is at the top of my very short wish list. Can't wait to get my hands on one.


----------



## RI Chevy

More efficient LED????


----------



## Jose Marin

What's up everyone, been reading through this thread for a week and finally caved in on a 415lm alpha. Overall i like i just wish low with 16340 was lower. Prometheus clip with oring works great, just needs a 1/8 turn for low so the clip doesnt loosen up a whole lot which is good. here's some quick measurements i took today after owning it for a half hour so far.

Lux @ 1m cr123
Hi-1800
Lo-50

Lux @ 1m 16340
Hi-2100
Lo-350

Amps cr123
Hi-1850ma
Lo-150ma

Amps 16340
Hi-998ma
Lo-300ma

Tint is just a hint more yellow than malkoff m61n and has a slightly squareish beam but only really noticeable on a white wall a few feet away. Comparing lumen levels with my zl sc62w low with cr123 compares with 11lumens, low with 16340 compares to 65 lumens and hi with both batteries looks right at 400lm. Will do a runtime test maybe this weekend.


----------



## the0dore3524

Jose Marin said:


> What's up everyone, been reading through this thread for a week and finally caved in on a 415lm alpha. Overall i like i just wish low with 16340 was lower. Prometheus clip with oring works great, just needs a 1/8 turn for low so the clip doesnt loosen up a whole lot which is good. here's some quick measurements i took today after owning it for a half hour so far.
> 
> Lux @ 1m cr123
> Hi-1800
> Lo-50
> 
> Lux @ 1m 16340
> Hi-2100
> Lo-350
> 
> Amps cr123
> Hi-1850ma
> Lo-150ma
> 
> Amps 16340
> Hi-998ma
> Lo-300ma
> 
> Tint is just a hint more yellow than malkoff m61n and has a slightly squareish beam but only really noticeable on a white wall a few feet away. Comparing lumen levels with my zl sc62w low with cr123 compares with 11lumens, low with 16340 compares to 65 lumens and hi with both batteries looks right at 400lm. Will do a runtime test maybe this weekend.



Thanks for your thoughts! I would be interested in seeing a runtime test with 16340s if possible. [emoji106]


----------



## Modernflame

Jose Marin said:


> What's up everyone, been reading through this thread for a week and finally caved in on a 415lm alpha.



Thanks for the data! I may have to wait until Christmas but this is definitely my next purchase.


----------



## INFRNL

Jose Marin said:


> Tint is just a hint more yellow than malkoff m61n .


 This is no good, i think the m61N series is already too yellow as it is. 

I was going to pick one up at some point to compare to the 315 lumen alpha. Might have to skip the 415 model


----------



## vadimax

Do we have any beam shot photos that are visually correct to evaluate that yellowness?


----------



## Modernflame

How about a photo of the Alpha and the M61N side by side? Or maybe the Alpha next to an AVS?


----------



## Jose Marin

vadimax said:


> Do we have any beam shot photos that are visually correct to evaluate that yellowness?



Alpha 415lm on left m61n on right. Taken with cell phone, yellow looks a little exaggerated in photo compared to real life


----------



## Jose Marin

Modernflame said:


> How about a photo of the Alpha and the M61N side by side? Or maybe the Alpha next to an AVS?


----------



## Modernflame

Jose Marin said:


> Alpha 415lm on left m61n on right. Taken with cell phone, yellow looks a little exaggerated in photo compared to real life



Maybe cell phone photos are not ideal, but the Elzetta appears a bit cooler. Nice beam tint on both lights.


----------



## lnhldyf

I have a tough ZFL-M60 flashlight, and I think it's stronger than surefire and capable of doing anything. That's the first choice


----------



## Modernflame

lnhldyf said:


> I have a tough ZFL-M60 flashlight, and I think it's stronger than surefire and capable of doing anything. That's the first choice



You are quite correct, sir. Welcome to the Elzetta thread.


----------



## Grijon

I've wanted an Alpha for quite some time to fulfill my desire for a neutral or warm, single-CR123A, rugged and reliable, dual-mode light with long runtime capability on low; the Alpha with high-low tailcap seemed to meet those requirements but for a cost that I couldn't justify at this time.

...until one came up on the WTS subforum for much less than MSRP! Brand new, simply removed from the packaging, and it was even the exact model that I had decided I wanted months ago, the A113. It must be meant to be, right? Right!

So now I've had an Alpha 113 for the past 20 hours, and I like it very, very much. I LOVE the tint, really enjoy the feel and ergonomics of the body, I like the switch, the low mode is perfect for my use and the 415-lumen high mode is great to have in reserve.

Unless something completely unexpected comes up (like an inheritance), it will be quite some time indeed before I make any plans for a Bravo or Charlie as I'm a bit of a Malkoff junkie and he's got 2- and 3-cell lights covered, but this A113 does make a good first impression for Elzetta - especially if it lives up to the expectation of years of flawless service.


----------



## Modernflame

Grijon said:


> I've wanted an Alpha for quite some time to fulfill my desire for a neutral or warm, single-CR123A, rugged and reliable, dual-mode light with long runtime capability on low; the Alpha with high-low tailcap seemed to meet those requirements but for a cost that I couldn't justify at this time.
> 
> ...until one came up on the WTS subforum for much less than MSRP! Brand new, simply removed from the packaging, and it was even the exact model that I had decided I wanted months ago, the A113. It must be meant to be, right? Right!
> 
> So now I've had an Alpha 113 for the past 20 hours, and I like it very, very much. I LOVE the tint, really enjoy the feel and ergonomics of the body, I like the switch, the low mode is perfect for my use and the 415-lumen high mode is great to have in reserve.
> 
> Unless something completely unexpected comes up (like an inheritance), it will be quite some time indeed before I make any plans for a Bravo or Charlie as I'm a bit of a Malkoff junkie and he's got 2- and 3-cell lights covered, but this A113 does make a good first impression for Elzetta - especially if it lives up to the expectation of years of flawless service.



Congratulations! Glad you got a deal. All things considered, the Alpha is a great value even at full retail, especially when one considers other options like the HDS.


----------



## gottawearshades

I have an M60-type host with a hi-lo tailcap that I like a lot. But I'd like it even more if it could tail-stand. Are there good DIY solutions to make this happen?


----------



## scs

gottawearshades said:


> I have an M60-type host with a hi-lo tailcap that I like a lot. But I'd like it even more if it could tail-stand. Are there good DIY solutions to make this happen?



I've always envisioned just using a black PVC ring 1/2"-3/4" wide, with a chamfered edge towards the head, fitting securely over the end of the tailcap.


----------



## INFRNL

the ability to not be able to tailstand is probably the only thing I truly dislike about elzetta. It would be nice to have a h/l tailswitch that would allow them to tailstand

I personally think they should make them as an option. I don't think it would take much to make it happen


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> the ability to not be able to tailstand is probably the only thing I truly dislike about elzetta. It would be nice to have a h/l tailswitch that would allow them to tailstand
> 
> I personally think they should make them as an option. I don't think it would take much to make it happen



I was just thinking about this today, but from another perspective. I think the unshrouded, hard press Elzetta tail cap does a great job preventing accidental activation and simultaneously allowing easy access. I'm willing to live without the tail stand feature for that. I like my shrouded tail caps (Malkoff, Thrunite, etc.) but the Elzetta just _feels _better in the hand.


----------



## Modernflame

Elzetta Shield Lights? Interesting. I wonder if it could be mounted to anything else. I don't see anything on the website.

https://www.facebook.com/Elzetta/photos/rpp.157846157565673/1838090526207886/?type=3&theater


----------



## Modernflame

Here we go...

http://gearsight.com/2017/07/18/new-elzetta-shield-lights/


----------



## sc00ts19

Hey everybody, I wanted to share a deep(er) carry clip mod I came up with for the speed clip. 












The orings are #241 and #209 from the plumbing section at Lowe's. 

The 4 orings on the tailcap prevent the clip from sliding off toward the switch. The larger oring on the lanyard loop groove keeps the clip from sliding down toward the head if it comes loose. The clip has to be installed on the tailcap first and then the tailcap can be screwed on. The oring in the groove in the middle of the light is for added grip between the clip and the pocket. I still want to add some heat shrink tubing to the clip for even more grip.


----------



## Modernflame

Brilliant! Amazing what one can accomplish with a pack of O-rings! I'll have to try it out. Your photos are much higher quality than mine, but here's another O-ring idea. I don't recall the number, but this is a relatively fat plumbing O-ring from Lowe's. I dislike wrist lanyards, but I don't want to drop my light in the dark, either.


----------



## Slightchance

Have they made a slimline avs head yet? Something the size of the Alpha's head?


----------



## Modernflame

Slightchance said:


> Have they made a slimline avs head yet? Something the size of the Alpha's head?



Negative. I know some other folks who would like a slimline AVS as well. For me, the standard AVS is perfect.


----------



## Slightchance

Ah, too bad. Maybe one day. Guess I will just get a belt holster for now.


----------



## bykfixer

I had only seen the Elzetta clip on an Alpha and thought "man that thing really looks awkward". 
Then I looked into the clip itself for use on my Bones.





This I can like.
Combine with their nearly wire thin, super strong lanyard ring one gets a grip ring, a rotatable lanyard ring if you like those finger rings. But on the typical (non Dark Sucks clip) the hole for finger ring is protruding from the opposite side as the clip. That creates a bur to your leg when using the clip to hold the light inside your trouser pocket. Being rotatable that is not an issue. 

The clip is awesome. It comes with a rubber ring where you slide the clip/ring over the light, then the rubber ring and pull the clip onto the rubber ring. It acts like Chinese handcuffs once things are in position. The harder you pull the tighter the fit. 





Instructions are for the Alpha.
Disregard the 2nd sentence in step 2 and reverse the gasket for some lights including the Bones.


Aids overhand, cigar and underhand grip when only wanting momentary on/off as well as general use and..... 





Fits other 6 volt cop lights well.
The Laser Products 6P with a Malkoff clicky, lanyard attached and a Malkoff M61W now has an antiroll that doubles as a pocket clip/grip ring. 

Tried on a 6P, a G2x Pro, a Pelican 2320, MD2, a Streamlight Strion and a Streamlight Polytac it worked great. 
On the Strion a couple of wraps of teflon tape was needed to gain the max grip... 

At $15 each it's well worth the coin.


----------



## Modernflame

I find that the clip protrudes awkwardly into my hand. It's mildly uncomfortable, but more importantly I never feel like I have a proper grip on the light. Then there's the lack of retention. I almost lost an Elzetta Charlie twice because of it. 

IMHO, the only advantage it has over the "Dark Sucks" style clip is that it leaves the neck of the light free, and thus makes it easier to operate a high/low tail cap.


----------



## bykfixer

Really?

I found the retention spot on with the Bones (and some other stuff) and the rounded edge perfectly comfy. I avoided it for a while because of the protrusion, but after getting used to another light with a grip ring and a pocket clip found I missed it on lights without it. The 2 combined were ideal for my use.




Although not "grip ring" attachment....
The one on the right is shaped to act like one. Combined with the pocket clip, I found the Elzetta Speed Clip to be close enough.


----------



## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> Really?
> 
> I found the retention spot on with the Bones (and some other stuff) and the rounded edge perfectly comfy. I avoided it for a while because of the protrusion, but after getting used to another light with a grip ring and a pocket clip found I missed it on lights without it. The 2 combined were ideal for my use.



To be fair, most experience with pocket clips has as much to do with clothing as with the clip itself. I seldom wear jeans. My EDC light usually rides in the front pocket of Khaki style pants. The Dark Sucks clip works well for me.


----------



## bykfixer

I rarely wear jeans either. If I do they are loose fit type.
2 battery light is the biggest I pocket carry.


----------



## scout24

A good pocket clip is an absolute must for me. McGizmo. Oveready. HDS basic clip. PK's two-way clip on bykfixer's middle light, above. Surefire C2, two cell e series lights. There are more than a few I really like. The clip is the only thing keeping me from owning an Alpha. Even if it were under the bezel so it carried bezel up, I'd have one. If it were decently thick and had good retention.


----------



## bykfixer

If the Dark Sucks clip is the same length as the Malkoff SureFire style, that would be pretty good on the Alpha bezel down. And no protruding finger ring hole like those others.




One of my modified Alphas with a Malkoff clip...
Pre-removed the finger ring/lanyard holder.


----------



## Modernflame

Did Elzetta stop offering the M60 module? I don't find it on the website.


----------



## xdayv

Modernflame said:


> Did Elzetta stop offering the M60 module? I don't find it on the website.


Just checked, yes the option to choose the M60 drop-in is not already there. So only AVS for now?


----------



## Modernflame

Perhaps it's just my greedy inner child, but I got all tingly hoping that this portends a new Elzetta invention.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> Did Elzetta stop offering the M60 module? I don't find it on the website.



Just wanted to stop by and say hi. Been extremely busy with work and life, etc, plus priorities, hobbies, etc have change since i have more than enough lights to fulfill my needs. Will try to stop by on occasion but at this point my time on this journey is fulfilled.

Looks like you are holding down the fort! 

Maybe there is not a lot of interest in the M60 drop-in vs AVS and it seems that they have gotten the avs finely tuned where the m60 is not really needed for them. Plus the fact that many people are after higher powered lights these days, so the avs fits in pretty well compared to the lower powered drop-ins. Also people tend to go to Gene for their drop-ins and the elzetta's work with either. No definite answers, just some random guesses.


----------



## Modernflame

Always good to hear from you INFRNL. I was thinking along the same lines about the M60. It is, after all, quite out dated. 

Elzetta's product line is in need of an expansion of some sort.


----------



## Slumber

I emailed Elzetta two weeks ago about the Low Profile Bezel for the M60 being out of stock and was informed they were discontinued. At the time I had a suspicion the era of the M60 was coming to an end. 
I caught the Elzetta bug again and picked up two Bravo's and two Charlie's, all with M60's. I've purchased and gotten rid of a bunch of these over the years, but right now I'm really enjoying carrying the 3 Cell with an M60W.


----------



## Modernflame

Wait, where did you get the M60W?


----------



## Slumber

Modernflame said:


> Wait, where did you get the M60W?



I picked two up from a member here on CPF.


----------



## Rob Babcock

It's a shame to see the low pro bezel go away. To be honest for most stuff I like the crenelated Vorlon/Klingon bezel but occasionally the low pro works better for carry. At least I already have a few laying around. It's nice to be able to use Elzetta bodies as M61 hosts but it's not a huge deal if they go away from them in favor of their own stuff. I have plenty of hosts and the supply doesn't seem likely to dry up anytime soon.


----------



## isthisloaded?

I absolutely love this thread. I have learned so much from you guys.

I have had a Elzetta Bravo with AVS head for a couple of years now and I am very impressed with it. 

With some help I managed to make a custom 2 cell body that can accommodate a 18650 cell as well as a 3 cell body that can accommodate 2 Keeppower 18500 protected cells and retain the functionality of the High-Low tailcap. 

Will try to upload some pics later.


----------



## Modernflame

isthisloaded? said:


> I absolutely love this thread. I have learned so much from you guys.
> 
> I have had a Elzetta Bravo with AVS head for a couple of years now and I am very impressed with it.
> 
> With some help I managed to make a custom 2 cell body that can accommodate a 18650 cell as well as a 3 cell body that can accommodate 2 Keeppower 18500 protected cells and retain the functionality of the High-Low tailcap.
> 
> Will try to upload some pics later.



I'm interested to see. I have a Charlie body that was bored out by OR to accept 2 X 18490 (unprotected). Others have said that they can run it on 2 x 18500, but I find the longer protected cells to be an extremely tight fit lengthwise. I prefer the 18490's.


----------



## scout24

Modernflame said:


> Always good to hear from you INFRNL. I was thinking along the same lines about the M60. It is, after all, quite out dated.
> 
> Elzetta's product line is in need of an expansion of some sort.



My M60's disagree with you...


----------



## Modernflame

scout24 said:


> My M60's disagree with you...



I think your M60's and I are quite in agreement. I only meant that sales must be down due to more recent releases across the board.

Personally, I'd love to get my hands on an M60W.


----------



## archimedes

The M60WLF is one of the very few Malkoff dropins I want, and have not yet been able to find ....


----------



## isthisloaded?

Modernflame said:


> I'm interested to see. I have a Charlie body that was bored out by OR to accept 2 X 18490 (unprotected). Others have said that they can run it on 2 x 18500, but I find the longer protected cells to be an extremely tight fit lengthwise. I prefer the 18490's.



This is the 3 cell body







I made it slightly longer than the Charlie to accommodate 18500 protected cells.


----------



## Slumber

isthisloaded? said:


> This is the 3 cell body
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made it slightly longer than the Charlie to accommodate 18500 protected cells.



Very cool! Is a 2x18650 body next?


----------



## isthisloaded?

Slumber Pass said:


> Very cool! Is a 2x18650 body next?



Absolutely! 

Then maybe some extenders as well that would work with the High-Low tailcap.


----------



## isthisloaded?

I used to run a Solarforce extender and Surefire tailcap with McClicky switch but really missed the low output option.


----------



## DIPSTIX

Has anyone ever had an Elzetta AVS Bravo bored v54 made? That is something I might be interested in!


----------



## Brightfan

Hey guys, so happy, just got my first Elzetta.
got the Alpha 315 lumen with hi/lo tail cap. Wow, blown away, love this light.
Know the 415 lumen light is out but is not available here yet, not too worried about it as the 315 is still great and the 7lumen low is sweet when dark.
Agonized over this purchase for ages, was worried that would not want to carry it due to being bigger than most single cell CR123 lights, but guess what, stuck the speed clip on and sits very well in FR pocket of jeans, yes the top sticks out but t-shirt, or golf shirt covers it anyway.

Speed clip not exactly deep carry but deploys super easy so I get why they made it the way they did.
weird as it is bigger than my other EDC lights but feels like was made to be carried.
Played with the Bravo too but have a 6p so couldn't justify plus want to carry the light and the Bravo not really edc on person size.

ridiculous over engineered piece of flashlight goodness !!


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Good score!!

The 315 is a real nice light. Glad to hear the clip fits your criteria.
You think you'll try the 415 when available?
It's totally different in the way it puts out light. For the better in general use terms in my view but I still dig the 315 for indoor use or to light the area nearby my person.


----------



## Brightfan

bykfixer said:


> ^^ Good score!!
> 
> The 315 is a real nice light. Glad to hear the clip fits your criteria.
> You think you'll try the 415 when available?
> It's totally different in the way it puts out light. For the better in general use terms in my view but I still dig the 315 for indoor use or to light the area nearby my person.



Probably wont try the 415, these things are not cheap as you know, would be nice to have got the latest version but my eyes would likely not really determine the extra output that easily.
just really liking the build quality and the way it feels great to carry and use.

My 6p is a bit too big for pocket carry, my S1 mini and 47mini feels a bit too small when in hand, the Alpha feels right. 
Dont know if that makes sense, maybe just justification for the purchase, anyway I dig all my lights but the elzetta the most right now. Lol


----------



## Modernflame

Dude, I dig what you're saying, but the Elzetta Bravo AVS is so nice that it might be worth investing in bigger pants. 

Just kidding. Congrats on the Alpha. I don't have one yet, but I'm being really really good and hoping Santa will bring me one for Christmas.


----------



## peter yetman

Modernflame said:


> Dude, I dig what you're saying, but the Elzetta Bravo AVS is so nice that it might be worth investing in bigger pants.


The voice of a True Flashaholic.
P


----------



## Modernflame

peter yetman said:


> The voice of a True Flashaholic.
> P



The proverbial pot and kettle? Right back at you, friend. :twothumbs


----------



## scout24

Bigger pants. Carpenter's jeans. Cargo shorts. All good choices.  I recall when the Bones came out, there was a lot of positive comments on the beam, etc. I asked Bykfixer via PM to convince me I needed one. He had some good points. I wound up buying the AVS head for my original Bravo, and am glad I did. Worth needing bigger pockets.


----------



## peter yetman

Modernflame said:


> The proverbial pot and kettle? Right back at you, friend. :twothumbs



Actually you're right. Just mislaid an OR delrin battery tube, and I'm more concerned about the tube than the expensive cell inside.
P


----------



## Rob Babcock

I kind of want the newer 415 lumen version of the Alpha but my original one works so well that there's not much urgency to "upgrade".


----------



## bykfixer

I wear Dockers and ****ies type trousers and clipped inside pocket carry of the Bones (and similar sized 2x123 lights) is not an issue. Same with relaxed fit jeans. 
With skinny jeans I don't even like carrying a roll of chapstick, much less a 2 cell flashlight.

Scout; I thought you wanted me to talk you _out of_ buying a Bones. Doh!! lol. 

I find the 315 lumen Alpha is a great little light and if one were to aqcuire their first Alpha I'd reccomend it as an ideal backup or primary for indoor CQB useage. The 415 is best for outdoors in my view. 

Recently I tried an Alpha hi/lo tail cap on the Bones. It works, but not like the Alpha, but more like 650 to 500 lumens. I would not endorse it's use as unless you twist it loose just right it becomes unreliable either not lighting the light or erratic operation due to loss of contact.


----------



## Modernflame

peter yetman said:


> Actually you're right. Just mislaid an OR delrin battery tube, and I'm more concerned about the tube than the expensive cell inside.
> P


I'd rather lose my car key or my iPhone than any of my delrin capsules from OR.


----------



## xdayv

Modernflame said:


> I'd rather lose my car key or my iPhone than any of my delrin capsules from OR.


hahaha! that's a heavy statement, mark of a true flashaholic.


----------



## the0dore3524

I have had both, and personally, I think you made the right choice going with the 315. The tint of the 315 is warm and rosy, while the tint on the 415 is very yellow. Unfortunately I sold my 315 and am stuck with my 415 because I decided to have my name engraved on it. One of the few lights I regret selling. Just my two cents - enjoy your light!


----------



## Lumencrazy

Do they not make any more low profile bezels for the Bravo?


----------



## hatman

the0dore3524 said:


> I have had both, and personally, I think you made the right choice going with the 315. The tint of the 315 is warm and rosy, while the tint on the 415 is very yellow. Unfortunately I sold my 315 and am stuck with my 415 because I decided to have my name engraved on it. One of the few lights I regret selling. Just my two cents - enjoy your light!



Agreed.

I don't consider the 415 lumen Alpha an "upgrade" to the earlier 315 lumen version -- they're just different.

Some nights I prefer the 415; but on many others I prefer my 315 model with its less yellow tint.

If could pick only one, not sure which it would be.

Each of mine has one of my all-time favorite clips -- the Dark Sucks Titanium. Without it, neither would get much use.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Lumencrazy said:


> Do they not make any more low profile bezels for the Bravo?



Supposedly they're discontinued but I do know some places still have NOS.


----------



## Modernflame

I think Battery Station still has them. 

If their website is to be believed, they still have the blue special edition Bones from earlier this year.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Modernflame said:


> I think Battery Station still has them.
> 
> If their website is to be believed, they still have the blue special edition Bones from earlier this year.



Yeah, that's the main one I was thinking of. They're good folks to deal with and have some good pricing. I didn't notice they still had blue Bones lights, although I'm not quite sure what I think of the finish. It's hard to decide from the pictures, I'd probably have to see one in person.


----------



## Modernflame

Rob Babcock said:


> Yeah, that's the main one I was thinking of. They're good folks to deal with and have some good pricing. I didn't notice they still had blue Bones lights, although I'm not quite sure what I think of the finish. It's hard to decide from the pictures, I'd probably have to see one in person.



I was on the fence about the blue Bones, then finally decided it's not for me. I don't love the finish, but it's still begging for life as a shelf queen.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I'm bummed that I missed out on the cerakoted yellow one and the Wolf Grey Bravo. Also I wish I'd have picked up an Alpha CQB while they still made them; if I'd have known they were going away I'd have bought one sooner.


----------



## bykfixer

I bought the 'new' Alpha when they had a copper one. Easy to tell at a glance which is the 315 and which is the 415. 

Yeah, Ida liked to have gotten the yellow Elzetta too.


----------



## Modernflame

Hey guys? Do you have more than one Elzetta AVS light? If so, what specific role do they fill in your lighting needs?


----------



## INFRNL

Rob Babcock said:


> Supposedly they're discontinued but I do know some places still have NOS.





Modernflame said:


> I think Battery Station still has them.
> 
> If their website is to be believed





Rob Babcock said:


> Yeah, that's the main one I was thinking of. They're good folks to deal with and have some good pricing.



Their site definitely does not keep real time track of stock. This is where I purchased my Charlie and one of my bravo's from. Definitely good prices and good people. One of my orders wasn't shipping so i had to call them. They said they were waiting on items from Elzetta and they would ship the order when everything arrived. 

I'm sure someone has a low-pro bezel laying around somewhere but it will probably be an adventure finding one. will be hit or miss at battery station but it's always worth a quick call.


----------



## the0dore3524

Makes me wonder if they still have those Alphas on clearance...


----------



## Rob Babcock

the0dore3524 said:


> Makes me wonder if they still have those Alphas on clearance...



Hahaha! I wonder! They've had one of each listed for six months.


----------



## matt4350

Modernflame said:


> Hey guys? Do you have more than one Elzetta AVS light? If so, what specific role do they fill in your lighting needs?



I have Bravo and Charlie, the Bravo is good for general use because I can use a 16650 to run it nice and cheaply, but on the duty belt is the Charlie because it feels better in the hand and runs a little brighter.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> Hey guys? Do you have more than one Elzetta AVS light? If so, what specific role do they fill in your lighting needs?


At the moment, I have a Bored Charlie w/AVS, Stock Bravo w/AVS Flood, Bored Bravo with M361N/ modified bezel for more spill and an Alpha 315. I was going to get an Alpha 415 when they did the 20% off deal, but didn't get the order placed.

I do not run primaries, so boring the bodies allows me to use any 18500/18650 cells. (oveready bored bodies did not allow for use of Panasonic/LG protected cells)

I wanted to try the lineup to see what i liked/ didn't like. 
Charlie for highest output and furthest throw 
Bravo/ flood (can be swapped with avs from Charlie) Can also be used on Bored body for maximum runtime using 18650. General use, good general use beam profile, nearly pure white tint
Bravo bored/stock for use with M61 modules. Really like M361N with h/l for 6 modes. General use
Alpha 315: just to see what it was about. Good little light for smaller tasks/close range/indoor use. Has a floody beam profile and nice tint. More rosy rather than yellow, similar to a nichia 219b?

I have a love/hate relationship with the tailcaps. Great for tactical use, momentary function but can't tailstand. I use tailstand function quite often and cannot do this with these lights. 
Runtime of the Charlie is not the greatest but works for my occasional use/needs.
Runtime of Bravo/AVS is really good but at a reduced output approx 400lm I believe (would have to test) 16650 also provides adequate runtime.
Flood lens is good, depending on needs, probably better suited using Charlie for higher output, but does fine with Bravo and closer range/indoors. I could live without the flood lens (would prefer to use My WCv6 or M91W)

Alpha is a good little quick grab light for smaller tasks or if you just want a tiny EDC light. Some have had various issues with the Alpha in the past (don't recall what they were) I haven't noticed anything yet.


----------



## Modernflame

Thanks, fellas. I have two AVS lights, but only one of them ever sees any use. I've decided to sell the other. It's on the marketplace here.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> Thanks, fellas. I have two AVS lights, but only one of them ever sees any use. I've decided to sell the other. It's on the marketplace here.



I've thought about moving 2-3 of mine to better homes too for the same reason, but having a difficult time deciding if I should or not.


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> I've thought about moving 2-3 of mine to better homes too for the same reason, but having a difficult time deciding if I should or not.



I have a disordered tendency to pick up two of every light I like, plus spare parts. The AVS is a fantastic piece of equipment, but I'm convinced that one will outlive me. Beyond that, my Malkoff collection is growing and I'm creating redundancy.

Thank you for your kind words on my WTS thread.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> Hey guys? Do you have more than one Elzetta AVS light? If so, what specific role do they fill in your lighting needs?





Modernflame said:


> I have a disordered tendency to pick up two of every light I like, plus spare parts. The AVS is a fantastic piece of equipment, but I'm convinced that one will outlive me. Beyond that, my Malkoff collection is growing and I'm creating redundancy.
> 
> Thank you for your kind words on my WTS thread.



I agree, i bought some spares of lights i like most. Then realized i would probably not ever need the spares, or something newer and possibly better would come along if i ever did need a replacement. as far as my comment in your wts thread; any time:thumbsup:


----------



## peter yetman

I've always done the same. If I find something that I really like, I buy another or two. With lights like Elzetta and Malkoff there's (sadly) no need, as the first one is unlikely to let you down. Mind you, I haven't sold my duplicate Malkoffs, that would be heresy.
p


----------



## bykfixer

INFRNL said:


> I've thought about moving 2-3 of mine to better homes too for the same reason, but having a difficult time deciding if I should or not.



Stick 'em in your safe or something unless you know someone who'll benefit from them. In a year or two you may decide you're glad you did. 
I'm glad I bought a backup Alpha 315 even though it's still nip. First the first year I considered trading, selling or gifting oh... probably 100 times. But not now. No way.


----------



## INFRNL

bykfixer said:


> Stick 'em in your safe or something unless you know someone who'll benefit from them. In a year or two you may decide you're glad you did.
> I'm glad I bought a backup Alpha 315 even though it's still nip. First the first year I considered trading, selling or gifting oh... probably 100 times. But not now. No way.


Probably good advise. :thumbsup:

I've been playing with them a little every night this past week. I bought them in a specific fashion to be able to get a feel for the different options offered. This makes it even harder. I had a bunch of Malkoff's too but recently let many of them go; mainly because things are tight this month and I do not need 30 lights. I definitely have a light that will fit any situation I'll need.

I still have a good 15 lights or so. I will hang onto what I have for now. I still have a lot of years left in my life, so I'm sure there will be more to come along the way. Thanks


----------



## bykfixer

Well if you need the money, you need the money. And passing them onto official light junkies makes sure they go to proper homes versus some friend or family member who'll end up sticking it in a tackle box to get ruined when those plastic lures get all melti-fied to it.


----------



## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> versus some friend or family member who'll end up sticking it in a tackle box to get ruined when those plastic lures get all melti-fied to it.



I've always appreciated your way with words, sir.

I have family members who would do just that.


----------



## Dio

Wow, that was some heavy duty reading! Finally caught up and not a moment too soon - my Bravo with AVS should arrive tomorrow!!

I don't even know what tipped me over the edge (probably flashlightguide.com) I just started looking into them and was instantly drawn to them for whatever reason. 

I folded and bought a B133 but in the brief time waiting for my first Bravo to arrive I have also snapped up one of the OR bored bodies with low profile head and high/low tail. I wasn't going to but there was four left for what seemed like ages but then two sold in the one day so I had to pull the trigger. I also justified this purchase due to reviews on Jim's site of the special bored bodies LOL

Oh well, now I better head over and suss out a Malkoff to stuff into the low profile head. Who knows where this is gonna end...


----------



## Modernflame

Dio said:


> Wow, that was some heavy duty reading! Finally caught up and not a moment too soon - my Bravo with AVS should arrive tomorrow!!



Congratulations on the purchase! I agree that the B133 is the optimal AVS configuration. Having one bored out? That's just classy.


----------



## bykfixer

Another junkie has bloomed....


----------



## Johnnyh

Dio said:


> Who knows where this is gonna end...



Well...the AVS head will end up on the bored Bravo and the low profile head will have to get a Malkoff M61N drop-in, the Prometheus clip is sure nice...a lanyard ring could have its uses...that single output 18650 Bones sure would be nice to have around...the Charlie puts out 900 lumens and doubles as a kubotan...AVS flood lens might be handy...a crenelated bezel would be cool...an Alpha would sure be handy...

Not that any of this happened to me. 

Good luck! You and your wallet have both my congrats and condolences! [emoji6]


----------



## Dio

bykfixer said:


> Another junkie has bloomed....



Ha no offence but you and Grizz have both played a substantial part in this thread (amongst others of course - your avatar and Grizz's green supporter avatar stick out more than others in my view though) so I can thank you guys for all the contributions and my wife can blame you for the limited savings in the coming months, cool!?




Johnnyh said:


> Well...the AVS head will end up on the bored Bravo and the low profile head will have to get a Malkoff M61N drop-in, the Prometheus clip is sure nice...a lanyard ring could have its uses...that single output 18650 Bones sure would be nice to have around...the Charlie puts out 900 lumens and doubles as a kubotan...AVS flood lens might be handy...a crenelated bezel would be cool...an Alpha would sure be handy...
> 
> Not that any of this happened to me.
> 
> Good luck! You and your wallet have both my congrats and condolences! [emoji6]



Hmm something went wrong - I went to the Malkoff site to look for drop-ins for my spare Bravo but I left wanting a HD-Super and a Wildcat...maybe this is the wrong thread to seek help with that matter....


----------



## Modernflame

Dio said:


> Hmm something went wrong - I went to the Malkoff site to look for drop-ins for my spare Bravo but I left wanting a HD-Super and a Wildcat...maybe this is the wrong thread to seek help with that matter....



@MX421, your inbox is full. I've been trying to send you a PM.

@DIO, We'll be happy to enable...er, uh assist you over on the Malkoff Junie thread.


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks Dio. 
Yeah the Grizzman taught me a lot early on and gladly passed along Malkoff fever. Oh, it's curable but the bill is kinda high. lol. 

Never got a bad case of Elzetta fever... just Alpha fever.


----------



## Slumber

bykfixer said:


> Never got a bad case of Elzetta fever... just Alpha fever.



Aren’t you a member of the Bones Brigade as well?


----------



## bykfixer

Slumber Pass said:


> Aren’t you a member of the Bones Brigade as well?



Holy head-rush Batman!! I should face the firing squad for forgetting that. 

And...
Holy time warp Batman! Bones Brigade. 





Woohoo. Old school all the way.


----------



## Slumber

bykfixer said:


> Holy head-rush Batman!! I should face the firing squad for forgetting that.
> 
> And...
> Holy time warp Batman! Bones Brigade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woohoo. Old school all the way.



You’re even cooler than I thought!!


----------



## Beard Man

9-4-17-1 by VaDimZH, on Flickr


----------



## Modernflame

I will say that the machine work and anodizing from Elzetta is the best of any production light I've seen.


----------



## archimedes

Anodizing is super tough, no doubt


----------



## Slumber

I’ve been really pleased with the AVS on a Charlie body. Somehow, it looks to have more throw even though the candela isn’t too impressive, yet it isn’t harsh on the eyes when used for up close stuff.


----------



## Modernflame

Slumber Pass said:


> I’ve been really pleased with the AVS on a Charlie body. Somehow, it looks to have more throw even though the candela isn’t too impressive, yet it isn’t harsh on the eyes when used for up close stuff.



Indeed. It does a lot of jobs well. I find, though, that not much is lost stepping it down to a Bravo.


----------



## Grizzman

Bykfixer, not that you've had the Bones for a while, do you wish you'd have gone with a Bravo with AVS for the lego-ability?

Work's been kinda nuts lately, but I hope to spend some more quality time here starting very soon.

A Bravo's been promoted from car duty to truck duty today, since the truck is used more often.


----------



## Slumber

Modernflame said:


> Indeed. It does a lot of jobs well. I find, though, that not much is lost stepping it down to a Bravo.



I agree. Those optics do a good great job of putting those lumens down range. 
Another “feature” that doesn’t get mentioned enough is the you can power a Charlie with two AA’s, both the AVS and M60. With fresh cells, it looks a little brighter than Low on 3 primary CR123’s. I haven’t tested runtime, but I’m getting curious how long they’ll run on AA’s.


----------



## Beard Man

Modernflame said:


> I will say that the machine work and anodizing from Elzetta is the best of any production light I've seen.



Well, if you look at AWS head (picture above) there is some anodizing "stains", like a "rain drops"...,never seen it on any production lights.

But overall machine work just amazing!


----------



## bykfixer

Grizzman said:


> Bykfixer, not that you've had the Bones for a while, do you wish you'd have gone with a Bravo with AVS for the lego-ability?
> 
> Work's been kinda nuts lately, but I hope to spend some more quality time here starting very soon.
> 
> A Bravo's been promoted from car duty to truck duty today, since the truck is used more often.



Never really considered much about lego of Elzetta lights. I bought the Alpha knowing it was pretty limited to Alpha specific stuff. And when the Bones was announced I bought it for a 1970's cop light in a 2016 platform. Just a simple on/off with an Elzetta typical near silent switch (like a slider). Like the Alpha, it's a niche light in my quiver.
For that matter I'd have bought it without the oversize barrel and imediately placed the supplied batteries in a space filling magazine when it arrived.

Didn't mean to go all vanilla on ya there. I've just never thought of Elzetta flashlights as being much different than my Rueger Mk II or a crash helmet... things that don't get used often, but absolutely positively have to work when called upon.

Edit: In thinking back I do not mean to imply modular means potentially un reliable. I just never really considered swapping parts around for different beam cast or tints. I did recently swap out bezels on my Alpha 315 in an effort to create a gap between the light itself and origin of the beam. Tbh, the CQB bezel did not make much change... or at least as much as I'd hoped for. 
I'll post a pic later of what I mean. But here's one for now in what I mean by gap...






A Pelican 2350 and a SureFire EB1c

Edit: it's later

Now here are some pix to show what I mean by not enough gap to cause me to edc these babies. They play a specific role of self defense posture in my world. 

First an Alpha putting out about 100 lumens with my fancy 4 setting Powertac Warrior tailcap attached vs a Laser Products 6P with a Malkoff NLL putting out about 90 lumens. 




Alpha is on the left.
I purposely brightened the pic to ensure viewers can see the tip of each light.

Now a Bones vs a PKDL FL 2, both on full output of about 650 lumens. Picture again was brightened. 




Bones is on the right. 

Mounted forward on a rifle, or using stealth moves with arm out-stretched... no big deal. But for security folks and checking for burglars, the lack of gap can allow a perp to see your torsoe. 
So you're blinding the perp, right? What if they have a partner? 

And that Mr. G is why this guy doesn't have a whole bunch of Elzetta products. Great lights, but very niche oriented when the flash/bang scenario is a potential.

If the AVS head corrects this... I'm all in. But I haven't seen anything about it one way or the other.


----------



## Modernflame

Slumber Pass said:


> Another “feature” that doesn’t get mentioned enough is the you can power a Charlie with two AA’s, both the AVS and M60. With fresh cells, it looks a little brighter than Low on 3 primary CR123’s.



I did not know this! The Charlie is a hungry beast, though. Those AA's would just be a little snack.



Beard Man said:


> Well, if you look at AWS head (picture above) there is some anodizing "stains", like a "rain drops"...,never seen it on any production lights.



I did not notice this in your photo until you pointed it out. Have you spoken to Elzetta about it? I have not had this experience with AVS lights.


----------



## Beard Man

Modernflame said:


> I did not notice this in your photo until you pointed it out. Have you spoken to Elzetta about it? I have not had this experience with AVS lights.



Yes , I just return it for a full refund.

It was really bad anodizing finish and absolutely visible.

How it pass quality control...I have no idea.


----------



## Modernflame

Beard Man said:


> Yes , I just return it for a full refund.
> 
> It was really bad anodizing finish and absolutely visible.
> 
> How it pass quality control...I have no idea.



Good to know they took it back. I would not have wanted to keep it, either.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I may get another Elzetta down the road, maybe one more Charlie for use as a WML. But honestly their lineup doesn't lend itself to flashaholism/collecting all that much due to the relatively limited options. It's pretty easy to get one of everything they make, that's not all that many lights. One thing that would get me off the bubble though would be what I like to call an "Alpha2​". It would be basically the current Alpha with a body lengthened to accommodate 2 x CR123a. I love the Bravo but there would be a place in my collection for a two cell light that's basically full size but slimmer than the AVS head on the Bravo/Charlie lights. If Elzetta built it I would buy two or three of 'em.


----------



## Beard Man

Modernflame said:


> Good to know they took it back. I would not have wanted to keep it, either.



Yeah,the customer service just outstanding and I really like the machining of the light,its very ergonomic!


----------



## Beard Man

Rob Babcock said:


> I love the Bravo but there would be a place in my collection for a two cell light that's basically full size but slimmer than the AVS head on the Bravo...



How about Bravo with Malkoff drop-in and low profile bezel ? 

Two cell light and slimmer than AVS head._


_


----------



## Modernflame

Beard Man said:


> How about Bravo with Malkoff drop-in and low profile bezel ?
> 
> Two cell light and slimmer than AVS head.



I've never seen the point in taking that route. Might as well get a Malkoff host, which supports 18XXX cells without needing aftermarket modification.

If the Elzetta is coming out of the flashlight drawer, then it is AVS all the way.


----------



## Beard Man

Modernflame said:


> I've never seen the point in taking that route. Might as well get a Malkoff host, which supports 18XXX cells without needing aftermarket modification.
> 
> If the Elzetta is coming out of the flashlight drawer, then it is AVS all the way.



Right, I just forgot to mention *Bored* (18650) Elzetta Bravo with Malkoff drop-in and low profile bezel.

But again,what's the point when you can take Malkoff MD2.

The great option for Bored Bravo is AVS head in additional to the Malkoff drop-in.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I have a Bravo with an M61 and low-pro bezel already but it's nothing like the Alpha. I believe the Alpha head is similar to the AVS in that it would have more output with higher voltage. The current Alpha is a bit more potent than an M61. And of course an _Alpha2​_ would have a head that was part of the body, not a bezel or head that screws on. The other advantage of an Alpha variant would be the HI/LOW tailcap. IIRC Gene has said that the resistor ring won't fit in the smaller head of the MDC-sized lights.


----------



## Modernflame

Rob Babcock said:


> I have a Bravo with an M61 and low-pro bezel already but it's nothing like the Alpha. I believe the Alpha head is similar to the AVS in that it would have more output with higher voltage.



I have heard reports of the Alpha running brighter on a li-on cell, but I think this was the 315lm version. Not sure how the newer ~400lm version would behave.


----------



## Jose Marin

The alpha 2 does run brighter on a 16340 it also unfortunately has a much higher low mode which kinda ruined it for me which leaded to me selling it.


----------



## sc00ts19

Jose Marin said:


> The alpha 3 does run brighter on a 16340 it also unfortunately has a much higher low mode which kinda ruined it for me which leaded to me selling it.



Same here. And the 17m run time...not really worth it.


----------



## Modernflame

sc00ts19 said:


> Same here. And the 17m run time...not really worth it.



It does present a problem. If you want rechargeable, you either need the Bones or aftermarket modification to your Bravo/Charlie. If you want a low beam or strobe, you can't have the Bones. If you opt for after market modification, you can't get it from Elzetta. 

I wish they'd simply offered bored out versions of the Bravo and Charlie battery tubes along with an 18350 extender. Throw in a true spot optic and you've got a genuinely modular system. 

Imagine a 2 x 18650 Elzetta AVS with a high low tail cap and a spot optic with ~25,000 lux. Would that not be modular paradise? How about a 1 x 18650 AVS with high/low tail cap and 16,000lux?


----------



## RI Chevy

Everyone seems to be missing the main point on what the light was designed for. It is a military/law enforcement light designed around CR123A cells. As simple as that. 
Not for people to go walk a dog or shine it in their backyard. 
When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.


----------



## bykfixer

RI Chevy said:


> Everyone seems to be missing the main point on what the light was designed for. It is a military/law enforcement light designed around CR123A cells. As simple as that.
> Not for people to go walk a dog or shine it in their backyard.
> When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.



I remember in the 1980's fashion dictated jungle boots were cool. Meanwhile the citizenry were bothered by the blisters.


----------



## Modernflame

RI Chevy said:


> When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.



Perhaps not. Maybe it would help to remember that having a bored out tube does not preclude the use of primaries. Unless I'm way off base, that was the thinking behind the Bones. I'm just advocating for a modular system that provides a choice of batteries and optics.

I know of at least one current contributor to this thread who likes to argue that the Elzetta optics are all wrong for battle anyway. Perhaps he'd like to choose another optic?


----------



## Grizzman

The ability to change out the optics ourselves is a really cool feature....although all of my AVSs currently have spots installed. It's too bad that we're only offered the two options.

Some, including Elzetta's designers and myself, believe that enormous spill that fully illuminates a room to some degree is superior to having a sharp cutoff that allows the user to only illuminate what they wish. Having four optic options, full spot, spot with some spill, spill with some spot, and full spill should make pretty much everyone happy from a light output profile perspective.


----------



## Modernflame

Grizzman said:


> The ability to change out the optics ourselves is a really cool feature....although all of my AVSs currently have spots installed. It's too bad that we're only offered the two options.
> 
> Some, including Elzetta's designers and myself, believe that enormous spill that fully illuminates a room to some degree is superior to having a sharp cutoff that allows the user to only illuminate what they wish. Having four optic options, full spot, spot with some spill, spill with some spot, and full spill should make pretty much everyone happy from a light output profile perspective.



Exactly. I think that the virtues of Elzetta suit their lights to many applications, but even from a purely combat light or WML perspective, there are rifle mounted applications that would benefit from a narrower beam.


----------



## Beard Man

Bored Elzetta with AVS head and primary 2xCR123 or rechargeable 2xLFP123A, 2x18350 or 1x18650 - is absolutely for ALL applications , and you have 500,600 or 900 lumens in hight output with *Bravo 2-cell* body !

In additional you can add a Low Profile (or standard) Bezel and Malkoff Drop-In's to the Bravo body,with absolutely different (in your choice) color tint and output.

Very flexible system!


----------



## XR6Toggie

Got my Charlie C133 delivered today. Took about ten days from order to delivery but the wait was worth it. It's very ergonomic and simple to operate. I got my name rank and number engraved on it for a bit more personalisation. It's a great light and I'm looking forward for it to get properly dark so I can try it out more. Next thing to do is get a belt holder for it.


----------



## Lumencrazy

RI Chevy said:


> Everyone seems to be missing the main point on what the light was designed for. It is a military/law enforcement light designed around CR123A cells. As simple as that.
> Not for people to go walk a dog or shine it in their backyard.
> When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.




You just eliminated 99.9% of the sofa soldiers on this forum


----------



## RI Chevy

LOL. Just being real. But it's the truth.


----------



## Tachead

RI Chevy said:


> Everyone seems to be missing the main point on what the light was designed for. It is a military/law enforcement light designed around CR123A cells. As simple as that.
> Not for people to go walk a dog or shine it in their backyard.
> *When you are in battle, you can't be recharging cells.*



The thing is, bare 18650's aren't much more expensive then 2 or 3 CR123a's these days and have more capacity so, that argument is kind of not valid. Not to mention that most LE and MIL are rarely away from a place to charge for more then a shift(Frogs and S.O. aside).


----------



## RI Chevy

You missed the point too. 
Light WAS NOT designed around 18650 cells. 
It is a military/LE designed light. Go to the site and view some of Dave's videos.
Completely designed around the CR123A cell.
Not trying to argue, just stating the obvious. 
Light really is not designed or meant to be used for civilian use.


----------



## mk2rocco

18650 cells cannot sit in a warehouse for 10 years and still work like cr123 cells. They also do not work in cold and hot environments as well. The cr123 is much better suited for hard use.

On a different note..

I just got my first Elzetta! A Charlie with a high/low tailcap and I'm really digging it. Plus at $150 in new condition I couldn't pass it up


----------



## Tachead

RI Chevy said:


> You missed the point too.
> Light WAS NOT designed around 18650 cells.
> It is a military/LE designed light. Go to the site and view some of Dave's videos.
> Completely designed around the CR123A cell.
> Not trying to argue, just stating the obvious.
> Light really is not designed or meant to be used for civilian use.



My point is that maybe Elzetta should consider designing their lights for both fuel sources and including a primary cell magazine like most other companies. Some people, including LE, MIL, and Private Security would prefer to use rechargeables for some of their uses.


----------



## XR6Toggie

I think in law enforcement it’s worth having at least two lights available. Having one use disposables and one using rechargeables is probably best of both worlds. That being said it’s much easier and quicker for me to change out CR123s than go back to the car or office and plug an 18650 in to charge.


----------



## Tachead

mk2rocco said:


> 18650 cells cannot sit in a warehouse for 10 years and still work like cr123 cells. They also do not work in cold and hot environments as well. The cr123 is much better suited for hard use.
> 
> On a different note..
> 
> I just got my first Elzetta! A Charlie with a high/low tailcap and I'm really digging it. Plus at $150 in new condition I couldn't pass it up



It's true that primary lithium is best if ready to use(without the need to charge) after long term storage is a desired quality but, that is not always the case. Rechargeables offer several benefits for routine patrols. As for cold, unless we are talking about extreme cold(well below freezing), it doesn't make much of a difference. Hot temperatures don't have much of an immediate affect either. Generally, extreme hot and cold temperatures just reduce capacity and cycle life of a rechargeable cell but, it will still work just fine.

People always claim CR123a's are so much better for hard use but, I think this somewhat of a myth based on old low quality protected cells. Modern high quality unprotected 18650's are still great choices for hard use. In fact, Nasa trusts them enough to use them as their primary power source on the space shuttle which is exposed to far more vibration, shock, etc. then your average duty flashlight lol.


----------



## mk2rocco

My duty light is an 18650 Hound Dog that I run unprotected 18650 cells in, I've had zero issues. I carry 1 spare 18650 in my cargo pocket (in a Oveready capsule) and 6 spare cr123 cells in my duty bag. The biggest issue I've run into is trying to get my partners to up their flashlight game. For a flashaholic we don't think of using lithium cells as difficult, but there is a steep learning curve and no one I work with wants to mess with it. They all prefer their NIMH battery lights that just slide into a wall or vehicle mounted charger.

I'm with you that UNPROTECTED cells are durable and can be used hard use senarios. I still think cr123 cells are more fool proof and better suited for them.


----------



## Tachead

XR6Toggie said:


> I think in law enforcement it’s worth having at least two lights available. Having one use disposables and one using rechargeables is probably best of both worlds. That being said it’s much easier and quicker for me to change out CR123s than go back to the car or office and plug an 18650 in to charge.



Yes, having a backup light is always a good idea no matter what it is powered by. 

Keep in mind, there is no reason you can't keep a couple of charged 18650's in your pocket and swap them out as needed just like Cr123a's.

I definitely think there is a place for CR123a's but, I just think the user should have the choice. Designing a light to work on both is the perfect solution imo.


----------



## RI Chevy

I am sure Elzetta has pondered the thought. Maybe they just don't want to compromise their original design. 
They did come out with a bones model for 18650s. 
I can't speak for them. Just restating their mission statements.
There are plenty if other options if one is looking for primary 18650 use. 
Cell stability is really paramount. CR123A cells are much more stable than current 18650 cells. 
If I were in military, I certainly would not want to be carrying around a charger in my ruck sack.


----------



## XR6Toggie

Tachead said:


> Yes, having a backup light is always a good idea no matter what it is powered by.
> 
> Keep in mind, there is no reason you can't keep a couple of charged 18650's in your pocket and swap them out as needed just like Cr123a's.
> 
> I definitely think there is a place for CR123a's but, I just think the user should have the choice. Designing a light to work on both is the perfect solution imo.



Being new to this makes me a bit wary of 18650s. I know that they need a little bit more care taken with them and there are a few more steps involved with properly and safely charging, using and storing them. I don’t doubt that it would be easy to learn these things and getting a good charger and storage case isn’t too hard to do but I want to make sure I get it right. 

I suppose I might be the sort of customer Elzetta makes their lights for. I’m sure there is a similar concept worldwide of making duty gear ‘cop proof’ ie simple to use and tough to break. Elzetta do this by sticking to disposables. Streamlight do it by sticking with Nimh batteries that stay in the flashlight and just get left in the charger at the end of the shift until the next shift starts. 

If Elzetta make their name by their durability and reliability I can understand why they wouldn’t want to have soldiers and cops break their lights by misuse of rechargeable lithium batteries and take it out on the brand rather than user error.


----------



## KuroNekko

I respect the quality of the products from manufacturers like Streamlight, Surefire, Elzetta, and Malkoff, but like the discussion of the battery types shows, there are trade-offs. The main issue with them is that these brands make products for law enforcement and military in mind hence their designs, outputs, and purpose is really for those clients rather than a general user. They often focus on durability and simple modes for reliability and predictable output. That's great for a LEO and military user, but for a general user or even an outdoor user, it's far from practical and in fact, detrimental. Many products of these US-made, tactically-mind products only have two modes, if that. Not exactly great for flexibility and optimizing run times vs. output. Also, like the latest posts show, makers often prioritize the use of primaries for reliability over rechargeable lithium ions. I get why, as primary lithiums have a long shelf life, are less sensitive to extreme temperatures, and less prone to failures from battery chemistry. This makes them better for use in mission-critical situations or where you simply just need it to work on the first try. However, always using primaries on a power-hungry tactical flashlight isn't economical. As a guy who often went camping with a SL Scorpion and a Surefire 6P two decades ago, I loved their intense output, but didn't like how their single modes drained the expensive batteries. I ended up only using them when I really had to. Now, a lot of the Chinese brands offer flexibility with multiple outputs and modes, so the user, not the maker, has more control over the product and its use. I appreciate this approach given I really don't use a flashlight for tactical purposes. 

Simply put, I think US-made brands like Elzetta, Surefire, and the like make excellent products but really only for the tactical user. For a weapon-mounted light, these are the best ones to get given the durability, reliability, and simple output modes. However, for general use or even outdoor recreation, I find brands like Fenix, Klarus, Nitecore, etc. to make much better overall products given all the options you have with them ranging from outputs, modes, to battery types. 

I'd like to buy an Elzetta or Malkoff one day, but for me to justify that, I'd need a few of my other flashlights to fail and break first.


----------



## Modernflame

KuroNekko said:


> I respect the quality of the products from manufacturers like Streamlight, Surefire, Elzetta, and Malkoff, but like the discussion of the battery types shows, there are trade-offs. The main issue with them is that these brands make products for law enforcement and military in mind hence their designs, outputs, and purpose is really for those clients rather than a general user. They often focus on durability and simple modes for reliability and predictable output. That's great for a LEO and military user, but for a general user or even an outdoor user, it's far from practical and in fact, detrimental. Many products of these US-made, tactically-mind products only have two modes, if that. Not exactly great for flexibility and optimizing run times vs. output. Also, like the latest posts show, makers often prioritize the use of primaries for reliability over rechargeable lithium ions. I get why, as primary lithiums have a long shelf life, are less sensitive to extreme temperatures, and less prone to failures from battery chemistry. This makes them better for use in mission-critical situations or where you simply just need it to work on the first try. However, always using primaries on a power-hungry tactical flashlight isn't economical. As a guy who often went camping with a SL Scorpion and a Surefire 6P two decades ago, I loved their intense output, but didn't like how their single modes drained the expensive batteries. I ended up only using them when I really had to. Now, a lot of the Chinese brands offer flexibility with multiple outputs and modes, so the user, not the maker, has more control over the product and its use. I appreciate this approach given I really don't use a flashlight for tactical purposes.
> 
> Simply put, I think US-made brands like Elzetta, Surefire, and the like make excellent products but really only for the tactical user. For a weapon-mounted light, these are the best ones to get given the durability, reliability, and simple output modes. However, for general use or even outdoor recreation, I find brands like Fenix, Klarus, Nitecore, etc. to make much better overall products given all the options you have with them ranging from outputs, modes, to battery types.
> 
> I'd like to buy an Elzetta or Malkoff one day, but for me to justify that, I'd need a few of my other flashlights to fail and break first.



You are exactly correct. I would only add that Malkoff is not in that group, as they offer a variety of beam tints, modes, battery configurations, etc. Most are optimized for rechargeable cells.

Regarding Elzetta, they are a persnickety bunch. Whereas most manufacturers listen to what their customers want, Elzetta makes what Elzetta wants and tells their customers what they should want.

Dig my AVS and all. Just saying.


----------



## mk2rocco

After boring an Elzetta body are there any issues with different tailcaps not working? It seems like the hi/low and the strobe tails wouldn't have much for the little pin to contact.


----------



## terjee

On the whole CR123A vs. 18650 for LEO/duty use, there are a few important details that easily gets forgotten. It’s easy to look at the batteries and say they’re fine - and that’s typically the case - but these things are so much about life cycle management and logistics.

I do think 18650s could work for a lot of cases, it shouldn’t be too hard to flood the supply lines with good cells for example (the discount would have to be huge on something like that).

But even so you’re still left with issues like cell availability. Are any of the big name manufacturers okay with their unprotected 18650s being used “naked” in duty lights, and willing to commit?

There are also products missing. You’d want reasonably priced charging stations that could handle a lot of cells, do diagnostics on them, fully charge, and give green/yellow/red indicators, where only green goes back in the field.

Even with all of that covered, you still have the issues that a rechargeable would see a lot more damage over its lifetime, than a primary would.

And even if you account for that somehow, would you trust ALL the cops in New York City to grok how bad an idea it would be to drop an 18650 cell into a pocket with keys?

I’m all for 18650s, but there challenges.

And are there but enough rewards to take the cost of those challenges? I get if some doesn’t feel that there is. 

If I was a part of the supply chain though, I’d still start by tossing out some feelers to see if there’s anyone that’d be interested in making the chargers for it, and look into a limited beta project to evaluate and gain some experience.


----------



## peter yetman

Such a sensible post, thank you.
P


----------



## bykfixer

KuroNekko said:


> I respect the quality of the products from manufacturers like Streamlight, Surefire, Elzetta, and Malkoff, but like the discussion of the battery types shows, there are trade-offs. The main issue with them is that these brands make products for law enforcement and military in mind hence their designs, outputs, and purpose is really for those clients rather than a general user. They often focus on durability and simple modes for reliability and predictable output. That's great for a LEO and military user, but for a general user or even an outdoor user, it's far from practical and in fact, detrimental.
> 
> < Snip >
> 
> I'd like to buy an Elzetta or Malkoff one day, but for me to justify that, I'd need a few of my other flashlights to fail and break first.



100% in agreement. Best post in this thread in my view. 

When the "fan-base" think they should tweak things to their individual tastes, then call the manufacturer stubborn or worse... 

I mean it is what it is. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Elzetta probably won't go bankrupt if the 25 or so CPF members who buy them stop buying them.


----------



## RI Chevy

That's what I was getting at. Thanks for stating that. [emoji106]


----------



## bykfixer

Sometimes this thread makes me want to






Then Neko steps in and calms my nerves...


----------



## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> Sometimes this thread makes me want to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then Neko steps in and calms my nerves...



Really? Sometimes more than one perspective is legitimate. Seems like an excessively emotional response.


----------



## mk2rocco

I just love that we can be this picky about lights and yet have so many good options.


----------



## Grizzman

mk2rocco said:


> After boring an Elzetta body are there any issues with different tailcaps not working? It seems like the hi/low and the strobe tails wouldn't have much for the little pin to contact.



This certainly depends on the precision of the bore job. I have four that were bored by Oveready, and three have high/low tailcaps and one has a high/strobe. I've never had an instance of the lights not working properly. It's true that the edge of the body is reduced in thickness, but (at least with mine) it doesn't cause a problem.


----------



## Tachead

Grizzman said:


> This certainly depends on the precision of the bore job. I have four that were bored by Oveready, and three have high/low tailcaps and one has a high/strobe. I've never had an instance of the lights not working properly. It's true that the edge of the body is reduced in thickness, but (at least with mine) it doesn't cause a problem.



Any chance you could post a pic of an Oveready bored body vs a stock one so we can see the difference in thickness? Thanks:thumbsup:


----------



## mk2rocco

Thanks, I'll have Oveready bore mine.


----------



## Grizzman

I can take a phot later this afternoon. 

I'm not sure when Oveready will have another bore batch, but it may be six months to a year away.


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Any chance you could post a pic of an Oveready bored body vs a stock one so we can see the difference in thickness? Thanks:thumbsup:



I think you might find what you're looking on this review.

http://flashlightguide.com/2014/09/oveready-custom-bored-elzetta-bodies/

Edit: I think you might find the run time graphs to your liking, as well.

Cheers.


----------



## Tachead

Grizzman said:


> I can take a phot later this afternoon.
> 
> I'm not sure when Oveready will have another bore batch, but it may be six months to a year away.



Thanks Grizzman:thumbsup:.

That's unfortunate. I wonder why OR doesn't hire some more operators, get some more machinery, or contract out some machine work to another high quality shop? Between the demand for their lights and mods it seems like it would make sense. They always seem to be far behind and can't come close to keeping up with demand. I bet they are loosing a lot of sales due to this and could be making a lot more money:thinking:.


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Thanks Grizzman:thumbsup:.
> 
> That's unfortunate. I wonder why OR doesn't hire some more operators, get some more machinery, or contract out some machine work to another high quality shop? Between the demand for their lights and mods it seems like it would make sense. They always seem to be far behind and can't come close to keeping up with demand. I bet they are loosing a lot of sales due to this and could be making a lot more money:thinking:.



Theirs is a small operation. They've been in BOSS mode for roughly a year. I expect 2017 will have been quite lucrative for them. As far as Elzetta parts, they had a very small number of bored out hosts on their website for quite long time. It's a niche market and I wonder if it has not been saturated?


----------



## Grizzman

It's not an ideal solution, but right now, they have two bored complete Bravos with AVS heads. One could be purchased, and the head and tail cap could be sold here pretty easily.

It's time to go test out the M4's light mount.....ya, it's got a Bravo in it.


----------



## Tachead

Modernflame said:


> I think you might find what you're looking on this review.
> 
> http://flashlightguide.com/2014/09/oveready-custom-bored-elzetta-bodies/
> 
> Edit: I think you might find the run time graphs to your liking, as well.
> 
> Cheers.



Thanks MF:thumbsup:.

I have considered getting a Bravo AVS for years. The only thing that has stopped me is the lack of 18650 support. I just can't stomach the costs and environmental impact of primaries these days. I always knew about the OR boring service but, the wall thickness(or lack there of) after boring has always worried me. That and OR rarely seems to have them in stock. It's a bit hard to tell how thick the wall is in that pic. Maybe Grizzman's pic will show it better from the top down. The runtime graphs do look pretty good by the way lol.


----------



## RI Chevy

Somewhere, buried in thread are photos of a bored vs, regular Elzetta host. I have 2 bored hosts. They work fine. Only issue with tailcaps are the twisty caps. If you use a Hi/Low or Hi/Strobe it will work fine.
I use unprotected 18650 cells with my Elzettas.


----------



## Tachead

Modernflame said:


> Theirs is a small operation. They've been in BOSS mode for roughly a year. I expect 2017 will have been quite lucrative for them. As far as Elzetta parts, they had a very small number of bored out hosts on their website for quite long time. It's a niche market and I wonder if it has not been saturated?



Yeah, I know. It just seems like they can never keep up and its always been that way. People still want Modoolars but OR can't even keep up with the BOSS. I guess I just don't understand why they don't expand or subcontract out some work to help keep up. They could be selling a whole lot more as many guys like myself aren't big on fighting to get a light or part and just want to go order one.


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Thanks MF:thumbsup:.
> 
> I have considered getting a Bravo AVS for years. The only thing that has stopped me is the lack of 18650 support. I just can't stomach the costs and environmental impact of primaries these days. I always knew about the OR boring service but, the wall thickness(or lack there of) after boring has always worried me. That and OR rarely seems to have them in stock. It's a bit hard to tell how thick the wall is in that pic. Maybe Grizzman's pic will show it better from the top down. The runtime graphs do look pretty good by the way lol.



I recently sold a bored out Charlie on this forum. I just looked at that WTS thread, but my photos won't help you gauge the thickness of the tube. FWIW, I never had the sense that the strength of the tube had been compromised, if that's your concern. There were no issues with the high/low tail caip.


----------



## Tachead

RI Chevy said:


> Somewhere, buried in thread are photos of a bored vs, regular Elzetta host. I have 2 bored hosts. They work fine. Only issue with tailcaps are the twisty caps. If you use a Hi/Low or Hi/Strobe it will work fine.
> I use unprotected 18650 cells with my Elzettas.



Good to know, thanks:thumbsup:. If I ever get one it will be a Bravo with high/low tailcap and I will also run unprotected cells.


----------



## Tachead

Modernflame said:


> I recently sold a bored out Charlie on this forum. I just looked at that WTS thread, but my photos won't help you gauge the thickness of the tube. FWIW, I never had the sense that the strength of the tube had been compromised, if that's your concern. There were no issues with the high/low tail caip.



Thanks. Yeah, that was my concern(particularly the threaded area being too weak like on a bored 6P). Does the threaded area remain a bit beefier then on a 6P?


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Thanks. Yeah, that was my concern(particularly the threaded area being too weak like on a bored 6P). Does the threaded area remain a bit beefier then on a 6P?



Unfortunately, I've never handled a bored out 6P. Couldn't say for sure.


----------



## Tachead

Modernflame said:


> Unfortunately, I've never handled a bored out 6P. Couldn't say for sure.



Me neither but, I hear they are pretty thin at the treads. It seems like the Elzetta`s might be thicker.


----------



## RI Chevy

I have both bored 6P and bored Elzetta. I think the bored 6P is thicker.


----------



## TimeOnTarget

I got a couple of 16650’s for my Bravo. They work just fine without having to bore the body. 

I also got a dummy 123 to use a singe 16340. 

https://www.orbtronic.com/16650-li-ion-battery-rechargeable-protected

If I were in a life critical situation, I would use standard 123’s. 

Options are are nice to have.


----------



## Tachead

If only they would have given the Bones a high/low tailcap and left out the kindergarten graphics and fonts:fail:. All they had to do was make a Bravo that ran on 18650's and everyone would have been happy.


----------



## Tachead

RI Chevy said:


> I have both bored 6P and bored Elzetta. I think the bored 6P is thicker.



Oh, really. I would have thought the beefy Elzetta would have been thicker. Good to know, thanks.


----------



## Tachead

TimeOnTarget said:


> I got a couple of 16650’s for my Bravo. They work just fine without having to bore the body.
> 
> I also got a dummy 123 to use a singe 16340.
> 
> https://www.orbtronic.com/16650-li-ion-battery-rechargeable-protected
> 
> If I were in a life critical situation, I would use standard 123’s.
> 
> Options are are nice to have.



Yeah, the 16650`s seem to get pretty meager regulated runtimes though(about 15 minutes). A modern high discharge unprotected 18650 should get closer to 45 minutes of regulated output by the looks of it. Two LifePO4`s looks like a descent option though for the stock body.


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Yeah, the 16650`s seem to get pretty meager regulated runtimes though(about 15 minutes). A modern high discharge unprotected 18650 should get closer to 45 minutes of regulated output by the looks of it. Two LifePO4`s looks like a descent option though for the stock body.



I've walked this same path. I also share your financial and environmental concerns regarding primaries. For me, I find that the stock Bravo on 2 x CR123 is a perfect night stand light. It sees little use, if any, but if I need to reach for it then it _must work. 
_
Having experimented with multiple AVS lights with different batteries, bored out tubes, etc., I find that I've settled on this.


----------



## RI Chevy

Back when I got my Elzettas bored, 16650s weren't out. Lol
Only 18650s were available.

I also have a couple bored 9Ps. I run 2x18500 cells. [emoji106]


----------



## Modernflame

RI Chevy said:


> Back when I got my Elzettas bored, 16650s weren't out. Lol
> Only 18650s were available.
> 
> I also have a couple bored 9Ps. I run 2x18500 cells. [emoji106]



Nice. What drop ins are you running in your 9P's? I got rid of my 9P's many years ago, before I knew how cool they would be.


----------



## RI Chevy

I run M61 N's, NLLs, and an M91W. Run them all with 2x18500 setups. 
I also run a 9P with 2xAA M31 219B. I have many many options.


----------



## Modernflame

RI Chevy said:


> I also run a 9P with 2xAA M31 219B.



Excellence.


----------



## Grizzman

I can measure the thread thickness of Elzetta and 6P, both bored through Oveready. 

Here is a bored Charlie next to a stock Charlie.







I'm not able to measure wall thickness between threads, but the wall thickness including threads are .0635" for Elzetta and .0685 for Surefire. 

Inner diameters are:
Surefire - .736" and Elzetta - .740"

Outside diameter at o-ring groove:
Surefire - .771 and Elzetta - .7685".


----------



## Modernflame

Grizzman said:


> I can measure the thread thickness of Elzetta and 6P, both bored through Oveready.
> 
> Here is a bored Charlie next to a stock Charlie.
> 
> I'm not able to measure wall thickness between threads, but the wall thickness including threads are .0635" for Elzetta and .0685 for Surefire.
> 
> Inner diameters are:
> Surefire - .736" and Elzetta - .740"
> 
> Outside diameter at o-ring groove:
> Surefire - .771 and Elzetta - .7685".



Thanks for taking the time, Grizz. 

@RI Chevy. Good eye. These measurements bear out the small differences you spotted with the unaided eye.


----------



## Tachead

Grizzman said:


> I can measure the thread thickness of Elzetta and 6P, both bored through Oveready.
> 
> Here is a bored Charlie next to a stock Charlie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not able to measure wall thickness between threads, but the wall thickness including threads are .0635" for Elzetta and .0685 for Surefire.
> 
> Inner diameters are:
> Surefire - .736" and Elzetta - .740"
> 
> Outside diameter at o-ring groove:
> Surefire - .771 and Elzetta - .7685".


Thanks Grizz, I really appreciate it👍


----------



## RI Chevy

Lol. Cool. Thanks.
Not bad for a hacker. 
Thanks Grizzman


----------



## ElectronGuru

mk2rocco said:


> After boring an Elzetta body are there any issues with different tailcaps not working? It seems like the hi/low and the strobe tails wouldn't have much for the little pin to contact.



Not with pin caps, but their twisty has a tiny disc that then goes inside without making contact.




mk2rocco said:


> Thanks, I'll have Oveready bore mine.



Batch services used to be frequent and vigorous. But as the supply of unbored bodies dwindled, so did interest in modifying them. The current batch has been open for something like two years and still isn’t half full. It may never fill enough to run.

Meanwhile, interest in Elzetta is also down. The few remaining AVS will be our last.


----------



## knucklegary

What is current bore ID of the Bravo bodies in OR inventory?

According to Grissman's measurement: .740 = 18.80mm ID

** I read somewhere in this thread 18650 protected cells (18.60mm) Do Not fit Oveready bored Bravo bodies? 

With 0.20mm battery to bore clearance you can sit back and toss them in.. 

0.15mm (.006 inches) should be enough clearance to add plenty breathing room without creating battery vacuum.. 

IMO -- Overbored bodies @18.75 is optimal for All available protected and unprotected 18mm cells


----------



## Grizzman

My Charlie was bored in the last Oveready batch, and it measures at .740".

I use AW protected 3400 mAh 18650s in my bored Bravos without any fitment issues at all. I don't own any other protected 18650s.


----------



## Modernflame

knucklegary said:


> What is current bore ID of the Bravo bodies in OR inventory?
> 
> According to Grissman's measurement: .740 = 18.80mm ID
> 
> ** I read somewhere in this thread 18650 protected cells (18.60mm) Do Not fit Oveready bored Bravo bodies?
> 
> With 0.20mm battery to bore clearance you can sit back and toss them in..
> 
> 0.15mm (.006 inches) should be enough clearance to add plenty breathing room without creating battery vacuum..
> 
> IMO -- Overbored bodies @18.75 is optimal for All available protected and unprotected 18mm cells



Not sure about the exact measurements, but the tolerances are snug. Oveready prefers the use of unprotected AW cells, which tend to be thinner than a lot of others. I recently sold my bored out Charlie tube, but it was perfect for a pair of AW unprotected 18490's. Keeppower 18500's were too fat. When I added an 18350 extender, I could use 2 X 18650, but I was limited to AW cells.

Actually, I have one pair of Keeppower 18650's that fit. My other sets of Keeppower 18650's were too large. Go figure.


----------



## knucklegary

Older KP protected used two wrappers vs one. They came up with a stronger more forgiving plastic heat shrink material eliminating the to double bag it


----------



## Modernflame

knucklegary said:


> Older KP protected used two wrappers vs one. They came up with a stronger more forgiving plastic heat shrink material eliminating the to double bag it



True, but the dimensions in question are greater than wrappers. Like people, not all 18650's can be skinny. I had no idea there was so much variation within the 18650 family until I started playing around with bored out tubes. By contrast, Malkoff MD series tubes are generously machined to house most anything.


----------



## knucklegary

Modernflame, There's nothing more valuable than hands on experience. Thank you for your threads!


----------



## knucklegary

Malkoff in comparison to other flashlights.. It's like comparing Harley-Davidson to a Honda 50 scooter!


----------



## Modernflame

knucklegary said:


> Malkoff in comparison to other flashlights.. It's like comparing Harley-Davidson to a Honda 50 scooter!



Far be it from me to agree to that on a non-Malkoff thread...but I agree anyway.

In the interest of staying on topic, I have the feeling that Elzetta will unveil a new product soon. I have no data to back that up, I'm just speculating based on the discontinuation of the M60's an their silence at last year's SHOT show.


----------



## Low_Speed

Modernflame said:


> Regarding Elzetta, they are a persnickety bunch. Whereas most manufacturers listen to what their customers want, Elzetta makes what Elzetta wants and tells their customers what they should want.



Elzetta listens to the customers that that they design and build their flashlights for. They are for military/tactical use. Weapon mounted lights. You as a customer buy for what your needs are. If You don’t need a weapon mounted light then you need to move on to EDC light manufacturers that do suit your needs. Olight makes some great lights.


----------



## INFRNL

knucklegary said:


> What is current bore ID of the Bravo bodies in OR inventory?
> 
> According to Grissman's measurement: .740 = 18.80mm ID
> 
> ** I read somewhere in this thread 18650 protected cells (18.60mm) Do Not fit Oveready bored Bravo bodies?
> 
> With 0.20mm battery to bore clearance you can sit back and toss them in..
> 
> 0.15mm (.006 inches) should be enough clearance to add plenty breathing room without creating battery vacuum..
> 
> IMO -- Overbored bodies @18.75 is optimal for All available protected and unprotected 18mm cells



You are correct, oveready bored bodies will work with aw protected cells but will not work with keeppower, lg, sanyo/Panasonic protected cells.

I use the later 3 and was disappointed to find this out when i got my bored bravo. I had to enlarge the bore myself to get my cells to work.


----------



## Dio

Low_Speed said:


> Elzetta listens to the customers that that they design and build their flashlights for. They are for military/tactical use. Weapon mounted lights. You as a customer buy for what your needs are. If You don’t need a weapon mounted light then you need to move on to EDC light manufacturers that do suit your needs. Olight makes some great lights.



You're not the first to display this distasteful attitude and sounding like an elitist snob, shunning customers for - God forsake it - buying a 'weapon light' and not equipping it to a weapon. Oh the travesty!!

What if I just want a hardcore light that can stand a ton of abuse? 
What if my life (whilst no way firearm related) depends on illumination and I feel Elzetta offers such a product? 
What if the beam profile is unique and offers not only a large area of illumination, it also has a really nice tint? 

Those are just a few possible questions that a customer may consider an Elzetta over many of the other brands out there. To come out and say to someone go away, this brand does not cater to you is a bit foolish. What do I know though, maybe I should just go offer all my stuff for sale at the range next time I pass by..:fail:


----------



## XR6Toggie

I don’t think it’s elitist, it’s just pointing out to people that take issue with Elzetta’s particular offerings that there are other options available that might better suit their needs. I can understand why Elzetta’s very specific product specifications aren’t for everyone but referring buyers to another manufacturer shouldn’t be seen as elitist. Same as referring someone looking at Mercedes-AMG cars to Volkswagen instead.


----------



## RI Chevy

Elzetta offers specific engineered lights for sale. You like it, buy it. You don't like it, don't buy it. 
One can't expect the manufacturer to change their design to cater to a few customers wants. 
I think is what is being expressed here.


----------



## Low_Speed

Dio said:


> You're not the first to display this distasteful attitude and sounding like an elitist snob, shunning customers for - God forsake it - buying a 'weapon light' and not equipping it to a weapon. Oh the travesty!!
> 
> What if I just want a hardcore light that can stand a ton of abuse?
> What if my life (whilst no way firearm related) depends on illumination and I feel Elzetta offers such a product?
> What if the beam profile is unique and offers not only a large area of illumination, it also has a really nice tint?
> 
> Those are just a few possible questions that a customer may consider an Elzetta over many of the other brands out there. To come out and say to someone go away, this brand does not cater to you is a bit foolish. What do I know though, maybe I should just go offer all my stuff for sale at the range next time I pass by..:fail:



What Toggie and Chevy said. Why is being truthful distasteful? I buy lights from a wide range of manufacturers for a specific uses that they were designed for. I buy Elzetta and Surefire lights for weapon/tactical use and other manufacturers lights for EDC lights. Will I grab my Elzetta for other uses if it’s the first thing that’s close by? Yes. But I do not expect or complain if it doesn’t do what other lights do. 

In short, buy the tool designed for the job and fits your needs. Elzetta doesn’t seem to fit your needs. You should move on. Try the Olight M2R Warrior. It’s tough and will probably fit your needs that the Elzetta will not. Including the batteries.


----------



## Tachead

Hey guys, what is the CCT and tint like on the AVS? Thanks.


----------



## RI Chevy

AVS head I would characterise as a warm neutral. I get slightly different tints based on input voltage.


----------



## Tachead

RI Chevy said:


> AVS head I would characterise as a warm neutral. I get slightly different tints based on input voltage.



Ok, so like 4000K? 4500k? Could you describe the tint at different outputs please then(low 6V, high 6V, high 9V). Greenish? Yellowish? Rosey? Creamy? Thanks:thumbsup:


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Ok, so like 4000K? 4500k? Could you describe the tint at different outputs please then(low 6V, high 6V, high 9V). Greenish? Yellowish? Rosey? Creamy? Thanks:thumbsup:



My unscientific guess is 5000k. Looks a tad yellow compared to 6000k, but bluish next to 4000k. I don't notice a difference in beam tint when switching from 6v to 9 v, but it shifts very slightly toward yellow on low.

That said, each specimen is unique. I've owned two and seen three, and the tint lottery will have a say in the exact specs.


----------



## Tachead

Modernflame said:


> My unscientific guess is 5000k. Looks a tad yellow compared to 6000k, but bluish next to 4000k. I don't notice a difference in beam tint when switching from 6v to 9 v, but it shifts very slightly toward yellow on low.
> 
> That said, each specimen is unique. I've owned two and seen three, and the tint lottery will have a say in the exact specs.



Thanks. I was hoping it was a bit warmer. So it is definitely quite a bit cooler then an M61N? I am aware of the tint lottery, just trying to get a rough idea. I don't mind yellow but, can't stand green. Sounds like it has a descent tint on average from the videos and pics I have looked at.


----------



## RI Chevy

That pretty much describes the tint. Slightly more yellowish, almost incandescent like on lower input voltages. I would describe the tint more like 3900K to 4300K. Excellent color rendition. But slightly warmer than neutral. 
Definitely warmer than my M61N's.


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Thanks. I was hoping it was a bit warmer. So it is definitely quite a bit cooler then an M61N? I am aware of the tint lottery, just trying to get a rough idea. I don't mind yellow but, can't stand green. Sounds like it has a descent tint on average from the videos and pics I have looked at.



If you don't mind waiting till evening, I'd be happy to snap a few comparison beam shots. Bravo AVS next to M61N. In the meantime, flashlight guide has some photos that might prove helpful.


----------



## Tachead

Modernflame said:


> If you don't mind waiting till evening, I'd be happy to snap a few comparison beam shots. Bravo AVS next to M61N. In the meantime, flashlight guide has some photos that might prove helpful.



Ok, thanks MF:thumbsup:.


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Ok, thanks MF:thumbsup:.



I get a kick out of this. Not sure about Canada, but in my neighborhood "MF" stands for something besides Modernflame.


----------



## Tachead

Modernflame said:


> I get a kick out of this. Not sure about Canada, but in my neighborhood "MF" stands for something besides Modernflame.



Lol. I promise I was not calling you a MF, I am just lazy.


----------



## bykfixer

I have a neighbor who bought a sherman tank and turned it into a vacation home. Later he complained of lack of headroom stating "sherman should be more responsive to customers desires"....


----------



## archimedes

Funny stuff, but can we nudge this thread back on topic guys


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Thanks. I was hoping it was a bit warmer. So it is definitely quite a bit cooler then an M61N? I am aware of the tint lottery, just trying to get a rough idea. I don't mind yellow but, can't stand green. Sounds like it has a descent tint on average from the videos and pics I have looked at.



@Tachead. My photos are terrible, but you get some idea. The Elzetta is a bit brighter, and to my eye a little cooler. The difference in beam tint is most visible in the third photo, if you look at the spill on the trees above the hot spots.

M61N







Elzetta Bravo AVS






M61N on left, Bravo AVS on the right.


----------



## INFRNL

I was going to comment on the difference between M61N and AVS but when I went to looking at my lights against a wall, it was too difficult to try and explain.

The AVS has a pretty white hotspot but the spill is more creamy, closer to what the M61N provides. on low mode it is more evident and appears to be warmer and close to the M61N

I was going to say AVS is around 5000k as well but when i put it against my 5000K Nichia 219c HDS rotary, there is a clear difference. It also gets hard to compare because of the beam profiles. M61N and nichia 219c has a larger hotspot and transitions with the spill beam much smoother. AVS has a small hotspot which we will say is white and spill beam is more yellow/creamy and has a more drastic transition between colors.

As long as you are not comparing different lights, the AVS usually looks near pure white, maybe slightly off white, where as the M61N always has a yellowish tint to it. If you like the yellowness of M61N and you do not like cooler tints, it may be a toss up for the AVS. Me personally, I do not really care for the M61N tint but if it was my only light then my eyes would become used to it and would be fine. I really like the AVS and think it has a great tint color. 

As far as profile, the AVS overall is nice with a more focused hotspot but spill beam is not as full/bright compared to other lights, from my experience. M61N provides good range with nice hotspot and a very good spill as well (more so if you have an enlarged output opening) M61N and similar lights have a better transition from hotspot to spill ( I think is what I'm trying to say) I prefer the beam profile of M61N more, but I like the tint of AVS more


Nice pics modern flame:thumbsup:

I would say in real life the difference between tint color is a bit more than what his pics show though. Just my opinion and we all know that it can be hard to get a pic to show what our eyes really see.


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> I would say in real life the difference between tint color is a bit more than what his pics show though. Just my opinion and we all know that it can be hard to get a pic to show what our eyes really see.



^^ Yeah, what he said. I also think the real life difference is greater than my photos show, and probably has to do with the white balance on my old school iPhone 5.


----------



## knucklegary

Hey, there's a 18650 3100/3400/3500 Fitment Guide in this forum. Posted by Oveready (5yrs old) it lists batteries that fit bored/unbored bodies.. However, it needs to be updated, Malkoff is currently finishing battery bores at 18.90mm, and any 18650 cell will fit comfortably in Malkoff MD2,3,4.. Sliding in an out with plenty clearance, the loose battery bore maybe good foresight since the trend for higher mAh protected cells comes with increased cell width. 
Now, how can I squeeze a 26650 into a Hound Dog MD2 -- Solution; 31 x 26mm body. That's appr 1-1/4" hand grip size. Just the right grip feel with added mega mAh.. Humm, back to the drawing board


----------



## RI Chevy

Just to throw a monkey wrench into the equation, the AVS head looks a bit different depending on what optic your using in it. Lol
For example the regular TIR lens vs. The flood lens. Lol


----------



## INFRNL

knucklegary said:


> Hey, there's a 18650 3100/3400/3500 Fitment Guide in this forum. Posted by Oveready (5yrs old) it lists batteries that fit bored/unbored bodies.. However, it needs to be updated, Malkoff is currently finishing battery bores at 18.90mm, and any 18650 cell will fit comfortably in Malkoff MD2,3,4.. Sliding in an out with plenty clearance, the loose battery bore maybe good foresight since the trend for higher mAh protected cells comes with increased cell width.
> Now, how can I squeeze a 26650 into a Hound Dog MD2 -- Solution; 31 x 26mm body. That's appr 1-1/4" hand grip size. Just the right grip feel with added mega mAh.. Humm, back to the drawing board



was this post meant to be posted in the Elzetta thread or was it meant to be posted in one of the malkoff threads? I feel like I just smoked something good



RI Chevy said:


> Just to throw a monkey wrench into the equation, the AVS head looks a bit different depending on what optic your using in it. Lol
> For example the regular TIR lens vs. The flood lens. Lol


This is also true...this will get em thinking


----------



## knucklegary

Dan from Oveready responded (PM) to my earlier thread questioning Elzetta Bravo bore sizes. He lead me to the OR 2013 dated battery fitment chart 
Oveready bored (18.65mm) Elzetta Bravo bodies are limited to run either OR protected (black), or unprotected AW 18650 (red)
*NOTE: I did get lil side tracked after reading the chart stating some 18mm batteries did Not fit Malkoff bodies -- Not the case today, current production bodies measure 18.9mm battery bores, and will accept any 18650 currently available


----------



## Tachead

Modernflame said:


> @Tachead. My photos are terrible, but you get some idea. The Elzetta is a bit brighter, and to my eye a little cooler. The difference in beam tint is most visible in the third photo, if you look at the spill on the trees above the hot spots.
> 
> M61N
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elzetta Bravo AVS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M61N on left, Bravo AVS on the right.


Thanks man, I really appreciate you taking the time👍.


----------



## Tachead

INFRNL said:


> I was going to comment on the difference between M61N and AVS but when I went to looking at my lights against a wall, it was too difficult to try and explain.
> 
> The AVS has a pretty white hotspot but the spill is more creamy, closer to what the M61N provides. on low mode it is more evident and appears to be warmer and close to the M61N
> 
> I was going to say AVS is around 5000k as well but when i put it against my 5000K Nichia 219c HDS rotary, there is a clear difference. It also gets hard to compare because of the beam profiles. M61N and nichia 219c has a larger hotspot and transitions with the spill beam much smoother. AVS has a small hotspot which we will say is white and spill beam is more yellow/creamy and has a more drastic transition between colors.
> 
> As long as you are not comparing different lights, the AVS usually looks near pure white, maybe slightly off white, where as the M61N always has a yellowish tint to it. If you like the yellowness of M61N and you do not like cooler tints, it may be a toss up for the AVS. Me personally, I do not really care for the M61N tint but if it was my only light then my eyes would become used to it and would be fine. I really like the AVS and think it has a great tint color.
> 
> As far as profile, the AVS overall is nice with a more focused hotspot but spill beam is not as full/bright compared to other lights, from my experience. M61N provides good range with nice hotspot and a very good spill as well (more so if you have an enlarged output opening) M61N and similar lights have a better transition from hotspot to spill ( I think is what I'm trying to say) I prefer the beam profile of M61N more, but I like the tint of AVS more
> 
> 
> Nice pics modern flame[emoji106]
> 
> I would say in real life the difference between tint color is a bit more than what his pics show though. Just my opinion and we all know that it can be hard to get a pic to show what our eyes really see.


Thank you too for the detailed info sir👍


----------



## knucklegary

Ditto on the photos.. Nice job !!


----------



## Dio

bykfixer said:


> I have a neighbor who bought a sherman tank and turned it into a vacation home. Later he complained of lack of headroom stating "sherman should be more responsive to customers desires"....



I bought a light that has a unique beam pattern. It really excells at what I wanted: 2 modes; good output for my needs/uses; excellent beam; durable; from a reputable company and backed up by a no issues guarantee both in a personal sense of it being reliable AND in the literal sense that if it fails the aforementioned point of reliability, I will be looked after and have a functional light again ASAP.

Continue to carry on with all the metaphors you like. The only complaining I see however is due to the Bravo/Charlie not supporting 18mm cells..they clearly listened and made the Bones - a product you own if my memory serves me right. Surely such a purist in need of a hardcore life support device would only use primary cells!? You should have bought a Bravo or Charlie as now Elzetta may be fooled into thinking a non-weapon/critical aplication or even civilian use is occurring with their products and, to the demise of us all, they may make an EDC product for a wider audience!

Who would want that to happen though as Elzetta may grow as a business and be able to employ more Americans!!!


----------



## Modernflame

Tachead said:


> Thanks man, I really appreciate you taking the time.



My pleasure, sir. I hope it helps you make a decision.


----------



## Beard Man

Need help, please!

What is voltage for AVS head: 3V-12V or 3V-14V ?


----------



## Slumber

Beard Man said:


> Need help, please!
> 
> What is voltage for AVS head: 3V-12V or 3V-14V ?



As far as I know it would be 9V max (or 9.75 when you account for primaries starting at 3.25). Elzetta has stated rechargeables are ok except in Charlie models.


----------



## RI Chevy

I run mine with 2 x 18500 cells. Bored Charlie host.


----------



## INFRNL

RI Chevy said:


> I run mine with 2 x 18500 cells. Bored Charlie host.



Me too, are we not supposed to. That's only 8.4v. 
Oh nevermind, we don't want to run 3x16340/rcr123. Runtime probably wouldn't be very good on 3x 16340 either


----------



## RI Chevy

Not sure, but the 2 x 18500 cells work great. The Charlie is good for 3 x CR123A cells. So I bet the AVS head is safe to about 10 volts at least. I wouldn't personally push 12Vs.


----------



## Tachead

3 x 16340 LiFePO4 like the K2 Energy LFP123 is an option as well for the stock(not bored) Charlie. So is the voltage limited lithium ions like the Tenergy 3.0V. Compared to CR123A's, you only get about half the regulated runtime but, at a brighter, better regulated, output and they can be recharged hundreds of times. The LiFePO4's don't have a protection circuit and are very stable so, they should be a more reliable and safe option over the Tenergy's but will likely get a bit less runtime.


----------



## RI Chevy

Good point. I completely forgot about those cells. Lol


----------



## Beard Man

Tachead said:


> 3 x 16340 LiFePO4 is an option as well for the stock(not bored) Charlie. So is the K2 Energy LFP123's. Compared to CR123A's, you only get about half the regulated runtime but, at a brighter, better regulated, output and they can be recharged hundreds of times. The LiFePO4's don't have a protection circuit and are very stable so, they should be a more reliable and safe option over the K2's but will likely get a bit less runtime.



Isn't the K2 Energy LFP123 and LiFePO4 is the same thing ?


----------



## Tachead

Beard Man said:


> Isn't the K2 Energy LFP123 and LiFePO4 is the same thing ?



Yes, they are both Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry. Sorry, I misspoke and will edit my post. I was talking about the other type of CR123A replacement which are normal Lithium Ion but, use a voltage limiter on the PTC. Tenergy is one of the companies that makes them. Here they are...

http://www.tenergy.com/30264


----------



## Beard Man

Tachead said:


> Yes, they are both Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry. Sorry, I misspoke and will edit my post. I was talking about the other type of CR123A replacement which are normal Lithium Ion but, use a voltage limiter on the PTC. Tenergy is one of the companies that makes them. Here they are...
> 
> http://www.tenergy.com/30264




Thank you, appreciate it !

So , _K2 Energy LFP123 don't have a protection ?

_


----------



## Tachead

Beard Man said:


> Thank you, appreciate it !
> 
> So , _K2 Energy LFP123 don't have a protection ?
> 
> _



No problem:thumbsup:

No, they are just standard LiFePO4. Lithium Iron Phosphate doesn't need a PTC because it is much more stable then other lithium chemistries. I haven't tried the K2 Energies because they were harder to get when I was looking. I have a few of these...

http://www.tenergy.com/30263

They work well but, keep in mind the capacity is a lot lower then a Primary CR123A. The K2's listed capacity(if it is accurate) is higher though so I may try them one day.


----------



## Tachead

You can see here that the K2 Energy LFP123's get a respectable 33minutes of regulated runtime in the Charlie AVS. They also offer more output and better regulation(more flat) then CR123A Primaries although they only offer a little more then half the regulated runtime. You have to be careful with them though as they don't offer near as much of a taper after they drop out of regulation. So, once you notice the output starting to dim, you need to change or charge them right away.


----------



## LightTheDark

Does anyone have both a Hi-Only as well as a hi-low tailcap for a bravo/Charlie unit? Wondering if the hi-only can be easily converted to a hi-low.

Thanks!


----------



## Dicaeopolis

I have an Elzetta Bravo with the Malkoff M60F and I really like it. Seems very well made. I use other throw lights quite often for my job, but that Elzetta is my nightstand light. Someday, I may try a new one with the AVS head.


----------



## INFRNL

LightTheDark said:


> Does anyone have both a Hi-Only as well as a hi-low tailcap for a bravo/Charlie unit? Wondering if the hi-only can be easily converted to a hi-low.
> 
> Thanks!


I haven't seen a high only tailcap but you would either need the h/l tailcap or the internals from one. I don't think you could rig something up yourself. Finding parts, drilling, etc; you might as well buy one or find someone selling one.

Elzetta recently had a 20% off sale, those would be the times to buy .



Dicaeopolis said:


> I have an Elzetta Bravo with the Malkoff M60F and I really like it. Seems very well made. I use other throw lights quite often for my job, but that Elzetta is my nightstand light. Someday, I may try a new one with the AVS head.


The avs head is a great head standard or flood. The output is close to white, so if you like warmer tints, than i wouldn't get one, otherwise they are great


----------



## bykfixer

I have a hi/lo and hi only for an Alpha and it is possible to build one, but it aint a simple thing, like infernal said.

Basically a tiny rod (inside a resistor ring) stays pushed outward (away from the switch) via a small spring that reduces the current flow and when the tailcap is twisted tightly it pushes the pin inward (towards the switch) thereby allowing full current flow.


----------



## INFRNL

When he says tiny, he means tiny. Definitely not a lot of room to work with.

If this design is anything like the malkoff h/l, there needs to also be a special insulator around the pin. This is why i mentioned just buying one either new or used, possibly a trade.

Definitely possible but probably not worth the time to do it yourself IMO


----------



## LGT

Been using my newly arrived alpha313 for a few days. First impression was a flawless anodized body.
Second impression was the neutral tint being just what I expect a neutral tint to be (compared to other lights I have.)After repeatedly dropping light from a six foot height onto wood deck to turn on off, third impression is "this is a tough light." I also like the simple soft press for low, harder press for high. Or the just low or high tail cap setting.


----------



## WebHobbit

Will this clip fit an Alpha (with standard one mode click switch):

http://www.oveready.com/clip-store/universal-tialn-spring-stainless-steel-clip/prod_454.html


----------



## Modernflame

WebHobbit said:


> Will this clip fit an Alpha (with standard one mode click switch):
> 
> http://www.oveready.com/clip-store/universal-tialn-spring-stainless-steel-clip/prod_454.html



The Alpha has the same diameter as the Bravo/Charlie series. In fact, they can interchange tail caps (high/low resistor not withstanding). Since OR claims the clip fits Elzetta, I'd expect it to work fine. 

IMHO, clips of this sort work best with a simple clicky switch, like the one you have.


----------



## RI Chevy

The Alphas have their own tailcap.
But that clip fits well. @Grizzman has a few of his with that clip.


----------



## twl

Will 2 x 17500 fit into a 3-cell Elzetta?


----------



## RI Chevy

I don't see why not. May rattle a bit. You really have to be conscious of the overall length of each battery for best fit. The 18490s are the best fit.


----------



## Jose Marin

If the body is bored then of course the 17500 will fit but they might be a tad long. I remember a review of the bored bodies and within 2x18500 they had to unscrew the head a little for them to fit. If you're using a stock body you may or may not have to remove the wraper for them to fit width wise.


----------



## WebHobbit

I have an Alpha on order. I'm having it engraved so I have no idea how long it will take. I'm debating on ordering an OR clip in the mean time.

edit: In the current 415 lumen Alpha does it still have a square beam shape on a white wall? I hope not...I guess if it annoys me too much I can order the flood lens. It's not visible through that is it?

And BTW what drugs were the designers on when they came up with that UGLY HUGE pocket clip???? That has to be the worst clip ever!


----------



## Beard Man

The Ti Pocket Clip from Prometheus (darksucks.com - https://darksucks.com/collections/titanium-pocket-clips-1/products/surefire-titanium-clip) also fit perfectly on my Elzetta Bravo:

Elzetta Bravo (bored 18650)
High/Low Tailcap
Malkoff M361N-LMH
Ti Prometheus Pocket Clip


----------



## RI Chevy

Square beam only if you get close to wall. I doubt you'd ever notice when used for real life work. No worries.


----------



## WebHobbit

OK...got my Alpha with the inscription "Molon Labe"....to my surprise (and delight) they did it in the "Greek Lettering" style without me even asking for it! Love it!

First impression is that I LOVE the feel/texture of the anodizing and the NICE grooves and knurling.

I bought both lens options and as it turns out I THINK I like the FULL On FLOOD lens best! No artifacts just clean tons of light. I bought this as a back up to my main EDC so having it flood only should be fine in this role. Also I should point out that I think I am fast becoming a Neutral snob....as I think I prefer the warmer tone of the Alpha to my typical Cool White (5700k) Malkoffs. I also just got a Hound Dog 18650 in Neutral so I am crossing over from the "blue side" to the "yellow side" I guess!






full size image:

https://lrpctech.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/img_1355.jpg

Now I'm waiting for my Oveready pocket clip to arrive for it. I know people say it fits it but that groove/space looks too WIDE for the clip not to spin just eyeballing it.


----------



## Modernflame

WebHobbit said:


> Now I'm waiting for my Oveready pocket clip to arrive for it. I know people say it fits it but that groove/space looks too WIDE for the clip not to spin just eyeballing it.



Which tail cap did you end up with? Single mode clicky?


----------



## WebHobbit

Yep that's it in the pic


----------



## Slumber

WebHobbit said:


> Now I'm waiting for my Oveready pocket clip to arrive for it. I know people say it fits it but that groove/space looks too WIDE for the clip not to spin just eyeballing it.



There’s an optional o ring that you place between the battery tube and the pocket clip to fill the gap on many lights. 
Also, don’t get rid of all your cool white lights. They still have their place and after going all neutral/warm for a while, you get the same “ah ha” moment when you try a cool light again.


----------



## vadimax

Beard Man said:


> The Ti Pocket Clip from Prometheus (darksucks.com - https://darksucks.com/collections/titanium-pocket-clips-1/products/surefire-titanium-clip) also fit perfectly on my Elzetta Bravo:Elzetta Bravo (bored 18650)High/Low TailcapMalkoff M361N-LMHTi Prometheus Pocket Clip



Wonder why Elzetta does not sell these heads any more...


----------



## Beard Man

vadimax said:


> Wonder why Elzetta does not sell these heads any more...



I asked Elzetta without any explanation,they just discontinued it.

I prefer this low profile bezel much more, than standard bezel.


----------



## Modernflame

Since they've stopped offering the M60 module altogether, I think they must be selling off their remaining stock of bezels. Maybe the low profile bezels were the best sellers? They are all likely to disappear in the near future.


----------



## bykfixer

Pure conjecture here but... as Elzetta has evolved lessons have been learned and experience gained. My thinking here is that the low profile stuff is going away for logistical reasons that input from warriors has indicated would suit their needs better. 
An example would be that a sculpted bezel provides a slight "snoot" which causes the beam to be cast in front of the light, not right at it. Yet the cranalations allow light to "leak" out the sides of the snoot. Goofy looking beam to us purists when aimed at a wall, yet to a SWAT person mana from Heaven. 

Hold your favorite flashlight beside your ear sometime. At night of course. Turn it on. If you can see your feet or not far out front from your feet, that is a bad thing when there's a potential for a foe to be aiming at you. 
In some cases a low profile bezel can allow light to be cast at a 90 degree angle from its origin. Great for total room lighter. Bad when your torsoe should not be included. 
Like I say, all that is conjecture on my part as to why Elzetta changed things, as I do not own a Bravo or Charlie. But can say that the low profile bezel on my Alpha allows it to light me where the CQB bezel does provide a slight gap.... not enough gap to suit me but it is better and knowing this I use my Alpha well forward of my torsoe. Same with my Bones.

When you see Brad Pitt in a movie holding a pistol and a flashlight all cool like and the pistol is lit by it.... folks that is a bad thing in real life.





Ideal. Note this is not an Elzetta





Note: brightness added for showing details


----------



## Modernflame

@bykfixer. I can certainly see your point, but I don't think that Elzetta's bezels have any effect on the beam profile of the M60, since all of the bezels interface with the optic in the same way. It is, I believe, a 16.5 mm opening, much like a Malkoff MDX head. 

On the AVS heads, the standard and crenellated bezel rings likewise will not limit the viewing angle of the lens. The dim, yet wide angle spill you are referring to is the result of their TIR optics, which they tout as a feature that increases situational awareness.


----------



## Beard Man

@bykfixer , the Low profile bezel is same as the Standard bezel,except Standard have more deep flutes.


----------



## Jose Marin

Just finished boring my bravo body turned out nice, glad to have 18650 power now. Did my charlie too but waiting for new batteries because my protected 18500s wont fit. I dont know how the hell those guys at flashlight guide got their's to fit lol.









Malkoff m61n inside, pairs with avs head tint very nice imo


----------



## Modernflame

Jose Marin said:


> I dont know how the hell those guys at flashlight guide got there's to fit lol.



Bruh, it's a state secret. Never could get it to work, either. 18490's or bust.


----------



## Jose Marin

I ordered some unprotected Panasonic 2000mah ncr18500a's from orbtronic they "should" work. In running 2 imr 14500's and the fit perfect. Didnt really want the same 18490s, want most capacity.


----------



## Modernflame

Jose Marin said:


> I ordered some unprotected Panasonic 2000mah ncr18500a's from orbtronic they "should" work. In running 2 imr 14500's and the fit perfect. Didnt really want the same 18490s, want most capacity.



Please update us with the results when you receive your batteries. I'm curious about the length of the cells relative to the Charlie, but I also think that you must have bored out more material than Oveready does.


----------



## neutralwhite

what clip(s) can fit the "Bones"
I am looking at the Prometheus Ti Clips for Elzetta.

thanks.


----------



## Modernflame

The Prometheus Ti clip fits perfectly. I can also verify that the Malkoff pocket clip w/lanyard attachment works. Both of them require the fitment O-ring. Both of them also have a small, but noticeable effect on the movement of the High/Low tail cap, which won't be an issue with your Bones. The Prometheus Ti clip is sleek and unobtrusive in the grip, but I can't say the same for the Malkoff clip. However, the Malkoff clip is cheaper and, in my experience, has slightly better retention. 

There may be other options, but I've only had direct experience with these.


----------



## bykfixer

neutralwhite said:


> what clip(s) can fit the "Bones"
> I am looking at the Prometheus Ti Clips for Elzetta.
> 
> thanks.



Folks here generally haven't been big fans of Elzettas Alpha clip. I love it on the Bones. 





Also use one on my Laser Products 6P. 
That and their wire thin lanyard ring make a mighty fine combination that provides a grip ring along with a very well thought out clip. The lanyard ring can be rotated so the protrusion can be where you want it and not where you don't.


----------



## Brightfan

I have the speed clip on my Alpha, reckon its brilliant, not so much love for the speed clip here but if you have one on your light you will see the ergonomic benefit, anchors the light between your fingers when pressing the switch, solid as a rock.
as the tail of the light sticks out of your pocket a bit, is super easy and convenient to deploy, also clip is no pocket shredder, can be removed and replaced in pocket one handed.
I wouldnt put on another make of clip, the elzetta one rocks.


----------



## nmiller

1+. I have the speed clip on my Alpha and love it. I was skeptical at first, but in real world use I couldn't ask for more.


----------



## bykfixer

I tried it on my Alpha. It's meant _for the Alpha_, which is too big to carry inside your pocket with chapstick, coins etc. So yeah, to daily carry it's best slid along the seem of your pocket. But when I tried it on the Bones... sorry little Alpha, Bones just stole your speed clip buddy. 

Then I stuck it to a Malkoff tailcap on my Laser Products 6P for kicks n grins... it was stuck. I got it off later but found it worked great at turning that one into a gripper too. All other clips on that one were too far forward due to the extra mm's of that Malkoff clicky. The speed clip fastened to the tailcap is perfect. (In the photo above it was on the body of the 6P)
Feeling guilty about stealing the Alpha clip twice for other lights I bought a 3rd one for the Alpha, but haven't installed it yet.


----------



## Brightfan

Ha, swear i bought a nib speed clip ( just in case) the one on the alpha ever breaks, have a 6p too but havent tried the speedclip on it as i dont edc the 6p, used about the house or back up in kitbag if going away.
have to say, really dig the alpha, would be tempted to buy the bravo, im so glad the bravo doesnt have a hi/ lo switch as the runtime stops me from buying it ( thank goodness) got too many lights as it is.


----------



## Modernflame

As much as I'd hate to sabotage a fellow flashaholic's budget, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't point out that the Bravo works with the high/low tail cap. In fact, the Bones is the only Elzetta flashlight that is not designed to work with a high/low switch.

Cheers, friend. Hold on to your wallet.


----------



## vadimax

One thing I cannot understand with Elzetta: their crenulated bezel. It is made of relatively soft 6061 aluminum. For me it was enough to drop on a pavement and it got a nasty sharp ding. Had to take a file to remove it and to file the same all other “teeth” to make them look the same:






Why not to make it of stainless (darkened) steel as other manufacturers do?


----------



## ChibiM

vadimax said:


> One thing I cannot understand with Elzetta: their crenulated bezel. It is made of relatively soft 6061 aluminum. For me it was enough to drop on a pavement and it got a nasty sharp ding. Had to take a file to remove it and to file the same all other “teeth” to make them look the same:
> 
> Why not to make it of stainless (darkened) steel as other manufacturers do?


Although I dont own an Elzetta, I agree. Or at least provide stainless steel bezelfs as an option.


----------



## Jose Marin

Modernflame said:


> Please update us with the results when you receive your batteries. I'm curious about the length of the cells relative to the Charlie, but I also think that you must have bored out more material than Oveready does.



The Panasonic ncr18500a's fit perfect and work great, im charging them right now. Only thing is the positive just barely sticks out, i might remove wraper and remove the little white paper disk that surrounds the positive to expose more. Id feel more comfortable knowing is has a better series connection


----------



## flatline

LGT said:


> Been using my newly arrived alpha313 for a few days. First impression was a flawless anodized body.
> Second impression was the neutral tint being just what I expect a neutral tint to be (compared to other lights I have.)After repeatedly dropping light from a six foot height onto wood deck to turn on off, third impression is "this is a tough light." I also like the simple soft press for low, harder press for high. Or the just low or high tail cap setting.



Which elzetta tail cap gives you different output levels based on how hard you push on the button?

I was considering buying an Alpha recently and don't remember seeing that as an option.

--flatline


----------



## Modernflame

flatline said:


> Which elzetta tail cap gives you different output levels based on how hard you push on the button?
> 
> I was considering buying an Alpha recently and don't remember seeing that as an option.
> 
> --flatline



It's just the high/low tail cap. Elzetta does not make a gas pedal switch. With the right amount of finesse, you can position the high/low tail cap in such a way that a soft press activates low, but a harder press compresses the plunger and gives you the high setting. Some people think of it as a feature.


----------



## bykfixer

Wade told me they left a bit of slop in the threads incase folks want to do that. 
Thumb position broadly across the button allows a way to "push" in the tailcap to momentary high mode.


----------



## Modernflame

^^Yes. 

@ Flatline. If you're considering this option, just remember that if the switch latches while you're pressing down, then you will be in constant on/low mode when you let go. For my use, I find the high/low tail cap easy to manipulate one handed, but it's hard for me to find that "in between" sweet spot unless I use both hands. Just some things to consider.


----------



## XR6Toggie

Modernflame said:


> It's just the high/low tail cap. Elzetta does not make a gas pedal switch. With the right amount of finesse, you can position the high/low tail cap in such a way that a soft press activates low, but a harder press compresses the plunger and gives you the high setting. Some people think of it as a feature.



Not a fan of this quirk. It’s a surprise when the cap is set to low and there’s a quick burst of high light during the initial press. Loosening the tail cap further fixes it but it still takes some getting used to.


----------



## Modernflame

XR6Toggie said:


> Not a fan of this quirk. It’s a surprise when the cap is set to low and there’s a quick burst of high light during the initial press. Loosening the tail cap further fixes it but it still takes some getting used to.



That has more or less been my experience with it. YMMV.


----------



## BugoutBoys

Wow.... I tested my first Elzetta and... Wow is all I can say.. I used Nitecore for a long time then upgraded to Surefire and have used them ever since. But Wow.. The feel of the Elzetta is just.. Wow. Oh, did I say wow?


----------



## bykfixer

Which one BoB?

I like dem Bones.


----------



## Modernflame

BugoutBoys said:


> Wow.... I tested my first Elzetta and... Wow is all I can say.. I used Nitecore for a long time then upgraded to Surefire and have used them ever since. But Wow.. The feel of the Elzetta is just.. Wow. Oh, did I say wow?



Glad you like it. I would have guessed that you would not like the beam tint, but it is hard not to like an Elzetta.


----------



## BugoutBoys

WebHobbit said:


> Also I should point out that I think I am fast becoming a Neutral snob....as I think I prefer the warmer tone of the Alpha to my typical Cool White (5700k) Malkoffs. I also just got a Hound Dog 18650 in Neutral so I am crossing over from the "blue side" to the "yellow side" I guess!





Modernflame said:


> Glad you like it. I would have guessed that you would not like the beam tint, but it is hard not to like an Elzetta.



Bleh, I hate to say it. I think I am starting to appreciate neutral too **Washes mouth with soap**
Yes I know, I'm a 6 year old at heart. But I still have a favorite color and it's blue. I want everything blue. My walls. My flashlight tint. My skin. Okay jk not my skin. Well I mean that would be pretty cool.. Well maybe not.. Only for a day.. ANYWAYS. The rosy tint of the ElZetta almost makes me feel.. Warm and fuzzy inside.. I actually love it! I never thought I'd say that.. But it's gorgeous and in a way dangerous because I would shine it at an attacker and be like "Awww you look so beautiful in this lighting"


----------



## Modernflame

BugoutBoys said:


> Bleh, I hate to say it. I think I am starting to appreciate neutral too **Washes mouth with soap**
> Yes I know, I'm a 6 year old at heart. But I still have a favorite color and it's blue. I want everything blue. My walls. My flashlight tint. My skin. Okay jk not my skin. Well I mean that would be pretty cool.. Well maybe not.. Only for a day.. ANYWAYS. The rosy tint of the ElZetta almost makes me feel.. Warm and fuzzy inside.. I actually love it! I never thought I'd say that.. But it's gorgeous and in a way dangerous because I would shine it at an attacker and be like "Awww you look so beautiful in this lighting"




I hear ya, brother. At some point, I figured out that I like warm, neutral, and cool. They've all got something unique to contribute. The lack of a traditional "hot spot" also adds to the Elzetta's overall sense of smoothness. It's good for situational awareness, but it is also easy on the eyes.


----------



## BugoutBoys

Modernflame said:


> I hear ya, brother. At some point, I figured out that I like warm, neutral, and cool. They've all got something unique to contribute. The lack of a traditional "hot spot" also adds to the Elzetta's overall sense of smoothness. It's good for situational awareness, but it is also easy on the eyes.



It is definitely easy on the eyes. You kinda stop thinking about it


----------



## BugoutBoys

RI Chevy said:


> Elzetta offers specific engineered lights for sale. You like it, buy it. You don't like it, don't buy it.
> One can't expect the manufacturer to change their design to cater to a few customers wants.
> I think is what is being expressed here.



I agree 1000%. There will never be a way to please EVERYONE. I find that ElZetta markets towards one specific market and they do it very, very well. It’s like if someone complained that Lamborghini doesn’t make an off-roader. It’s not their target audience.


----------



## xdayv

Anyone using a high/low tailcap on the Bones?


----------



## bykfixer

xdayv said:


> Anyone using a high/low tailcap on the Bones?



Yup,

Well used it for a few minutes anyway. High was normal. Low looked like it dropped to about 80-90% of full output. I couldn't see the benefit so I put back the stock tailcap.


----------



## INFRNL

BugoutBoys said:


> My skin. Okay jk not my skin. Well I mean that would be pretty cool.. Well maybe not.. Only for a day.. ANYWAYS.




First of all....What part of Colorado are you from? I live In Colorado Springs.

Secondly, If you want to have blue skin, I'm sure there is a way and we could call you a smurf

I watched a movie a while back, can't remember what it was called. It had something to do with a couple kids and a guy not so nice to the kids. Well the kids were getting back at this guy and put something in his pool (If I recall correctly) which turned him blue for a little while. Probably some kind of dye....could always give that a shot for a temporary change of skin color...HAHAHA!


Glad you are growing to like Neutral tints more and glad you are happy with your Elzetta


----------



## BugoutBoys

INFRNL said:


> First of all....What part of Colorado are you from? I live In Colorado Springs.
> 
> Secondly, If you want to have blue skin, I'm sure there is a way and we could call you a smurf
> 
> I watched a movie a while back, can't remember what it was called. It had something to do with a couple kids and a guy not so nice to the kids. Well the kids were getting back at this guy and put something in his pool (If I recall correctly) which turned him blue for a little while. Probably some kind of dye....could always give that a shot for a temporary change of skin color...HAHAHA!
> 
> 
> Glad you are growing to like Neutral tints more and glad you are happy with your Elzetta



JUST Southeast of Boulder!

Oh man I remember that movie. I think it was called Big Fat Liar!


----------



## XR6Toggie

I finally found a pouch that allows me to keep my Charlie on my belt. I picked up a Nite Ize Lite Holster Stretch and it’s doing the job well. I wish Elzetta offered pouches too.


----------



## BugoutBoys

OK funny question, so I know the ZFL with the Malkoff module can be disassembled underwater because it’s fully sealed. Can the AVS head do the same thing? Because the LED is exposed If you remove the TIR lens


----------



## Modernflame

BugoutBoys said:


> OK funny question, so I know the ZFL with the Malkoff module can be disassembled underwater because it’s fully sealed. Can the AVS head do the same thing? Because the LED is exposed If you remove the TIR lens



I saw a youtube video of a guy fully disassembling an AVS underwater, optic and all. So it can apparently be done, but I think this is Kamikaze crazy because the emitter is directly exposed to water. Certainly have not tried it with mine. As far as the ZFL M60, the drop in is not actually sealed. I confirmed this with Gene Malkoff (the original designer) while asking some other questions. Water will seep in past the optic and into the module. The Elzetta folks have demonstrated that it will work wet, but I think they've oversold it. I maintain my Elzetta O-rings just like any other flashlight.


----------



## Slumber

Water will get past the optic on the M60. I’ve had this happen to an old M60 I rinsed off after sanding it to diffuse the beam a bit. Water got in, but the drop kept working. Since the beam on that particular drop in was so bad and I was further abusing the optic with sand paper, I didn’t care. 
With all my other Elzetta/Malkoff products, I also take care to keep o rings in place and lubed. I would imagine water stains on the LED could reduce the output a little.


----------



## BugoutBoys

I'm sorry if this has been answered already, but anyone know why ElZetta stopped making the models that use Malkoff drop ins?


----------



## Modernflame

To my knowledge, they have not publicly stated the reason. Some of us have speculated that the 235 lm model is no longer a popular seller. Others have suggested that Elzetta is planning to release a new model, but I doubt anyone knows for sure.


----------



## bykfixer

BugoutBoys said:


> I'm sorry if this has been answered already, but anyone know why ElZetta stopped making the models that use Malkoff drop ins?



It was a selling point early on.

"Look, our lights are so BA they even have M60's by Malkoff Devices". While they were working on their own supply it was logical to use M60's. That also helped Gene fund his deal early on. Win-win.

Later they started making their own emitters. They have more control over output now. 

Once upon a time SureFire had Streamlight bulbs... yup.... _some_ very early SureFires had a Streamlight bulb in it. Not all, but when supply was short of Carley bulbs a Streamlight bulb got used in the batch.


----------



## Dicaeopolis

I have a Bravo and a Charlie both with the Malkoff modules. I finally bought an AVS head and put it on my Charlie with the high/low switch. I really like it and it is smaller than I thought it would be. I would recommend Elzetta to anyone. I am very pleased with it. I just got it today, so I won't be using it in the dark until tonight. Very cool though. Now I will have to buy another body to put the M60 in .


----------



## peter yetman

There's always something, isn't there?
Got a new drop in coming this week and nothing for it to live in permanantly.
P


----------



## vento611

https://i.imgur.com/hQuEnXN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WfIy5FY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oGNffpl.jpg
Elzetta MOD
XM-L2 U4 1A + H17F


----------



## BugoutBoys

vento611 said:


> https://i.imgur.com/hQuEnXN.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/WfIy5FY.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/oGNffpl.jpg
> Elzetta MOD
> XM-L2 U4 1A + H17F



WOAH how'd you change the tint? Just swap the LED?


----------



## vento611

BugoutBoys said:


> WOAH how'd you change the tint? Just swap the LED?



I have 3 Bored Elzetta Bravo, I modded all 3, I did a complete rebuild, H17F driver in all 3, 1 I swapped the emitter to a XM-L2 U4 1A (cool blue) and the other 2 I left the original LED in.

im not claiming my numbers to be more accurate than elzetta claims, but the following numbers were good enough for me to compare one another.

LUX at 1 meter:

Stock AVS Charlie 3xCR123 :16500 
Stock AVS Bravo 2xCR123 :10500
AVS Bravo 1x18650 :9600
MOD Bravo 1x18650 XP-L V6-3A :18600 hard to center emitter but can be done a special gasket- same size hotspot with a slightly smaller spill.
MOD Bravo 1x18650 XP-L HI V3-3A :20500 smaller hotspot and spill- very ugly beam profile. 
MOD Bravo 1x18650 XM-L2 U4-1A :16600 modded one to this.
MOD Bravo 1x18650 original emitter :16200 modded 2 to this.

now I can run a Bravo with the same performance of a Charlie using 3500mah 18650 with all the feature available in the H17F driver.
Caution though direct drive will kill the Elzetta switch, melt the plastic lens holder and fry the bond wires on the LED. Had to rebuild the switch with a Mcclicky, machined a metal lens holder (prefer the original holder though) and for the LED... the XM-L2 U4-1A seems to handle DD better. but anyway I permanently disabled DD so it cant be accidently accessed.


----------



## BugoutBoys

That is very, very impressive. I love it!
It looks like the original LED is an XM-L2 (not sure the bin. U3?) and I measured it at around 4200k last night with a tad of magenta. How complicated do you think it would be to simply unscrew and unmount the original LED and swap with just a cooler (in the ballpark of 5600k) LED? I'm debating doing it


----------



## vento611

Thanks!, if you measured the original LED at 4200k than most likely it’s a T6 or U2 bin, removing the MCPCB and reflowing another emmiter is easy, just be carful with the wires... you don’t have any slack to work with, for a 5700K XM-L2 I think the highest bin is U3 but I’m not sure look in the E2 kit on the data sheet... these emmiters aren’t that easy to buy. The readily available ones are U4-1A, U3-3D, and few more tint but in lower bins.


----------



## BugoutBoys

vento611 said:


> Thanks!, if you measured the original LED at 4200k than most likely it’s a T6 or U2 bin, removing the MCPCB and reflowing another emmiter is easy, just be carful with the wires... you don’t have any slack to work with, for a 5700K XM-L2 I think the highest bin is U3 but I’m not sure look in the E2 kit on the data sheet... these emmiters aren’t that easy to buy. The readily available ones are U4-1A, U3-3D, and few more tint but in lower bins.


So it looks like the ElZetta MCPCB is held in by just two screws which is convenient. I just don’t know what’s on the other side of it. If it’s just held by two screws, then ideally it would be very easy to remove. If there’s thermal paste as well, that gets me a little nervous. I think the only issue for me would be removing the old MCPCB without damaging the wires.


----------



## vento611

Ya, just the 2 screws, de-solder the 2 wires and when installing apply some thermal paste like arctic silver.


----------



## choombak

New to Elzetta - the direct-access-strobe tailcap caught my attention. I have been looking for a light with direct-access-strobe functionality, and needs to be ultra reliable - it will be used by a Elephant conservationist friend in/around Kaziranga sanctuary in Assam, India. Apparently, elephants respond well to strobe and its typically a high stress situation. 

Anyone has one who can attest to the usability? I am specifically trying to understand how difficult/easy it is for the tailcap to screw/unscrew on its own (in a bag for example), or does it present good enough resistance? Its the B134 model that I'm considering.


----------



## Modernflame

The tail cap will not tighten or loosen by itself during transport or storage. It's easy to loosen the tail cap intentionally, but virtually impossible to do accidentally. Your friend will not be able to break the flashlight. I'd wager it would hold up, even if trampled underfoot by elephants.

On a side note, I'm taken aback by the concept of elephants and strobe. Have they been concealing a tendency toward disco?


----------



## XR6Toggie

choombak said:


> New to Elzetta - the direct-access-strobe tailcap caught my attention. I have been looking for a light with direct-access-strobe functionality, and needs to be ultra reliable - it will be used by a Elephant conservationist friend in/around Kaziranga sanctuary in Assam, India. Apparently, elephants respond well to strobe and its typically a high stress situation.
> 
> Anyone has one who can attest to the usability? I am specifically trying to understand how difficult/easy it is for the tailcap to screw/unscrew on its own (in a bag for example), or does it present good enough resistance? Its the B134 model that I'm considering.



I carry a Charlie in a belt pouch for 10hrs a day. The tail cap will not unscrew unless you want it to unscrew. It's an exceptionally well made product. I double checked with the Elzetta YouTube video about tail caps. For the high/strobe tail cap high mode is engaged by fully tightening the tail cap and strobe is engaged by slightly loosening the tail cap. You only need a slight turn to switch from high to strobe so the tail cap is still going to be well and truly screwed on.


----------



## choombak

Modernflame said:


> The tail cap will not tighten or loosen by itself during transport or storage. It's easy to loosen the tail cap intentionally, but virtually impossible to do accidentally. Your friend will not be able to break the flashlight. I'd wager it would hold up, even if trampled underfoot by elephants.
> 
> On a side note, I'm taken aback by the concept of elephants and strobe. Have they been concealing a tendency toward disco?


At least when agitated they certainly do calm down with strobe, per my friend. Given the situation, he doesn't have time to fool around with disco flashlight modes for sure! ;-)

Thanks for feedback, I'll grab one for him.


----------



## Modernflame

choombak said:


> Thanks for feedback, I'll grab one for him.



Be careful with that Elzetta, sir. It may spawn duplicates and infest your home!


----------



## bykfixer

Bravo to your friend Choomback. And to you as well... good lookin' out bro. 

Bravo!!!!


----------



## choombak

bykfixer said:


> Bravo to your friend Choomback. And to you as well... good lookin' out bro.
> 
> Bravo!!!!



Thanks for your kind words, though they apply to my friend than me -- my satisfaction comes from the fact being able to provide him a uber-reliable light. Honestly, I have been looking around for a direct-access-strobe light, but nothing available satisfied the reliability requirement. Until I found this.


----------



## choombak

Modernflame said:


> Be careful with that Elzetta, sir. It may spawn duplicates and infest your home!



Spot on -- I also picked up a ZFL-M60. 

Out of curiosity, do the Bravo components fit ZFL-M60? (tailcap)


----------



## Johnnyh

Yes, the tail caps are interchangeable, as well as the heads (AVS-M60).


----------



## Modernflame

Where did you get your ZFL-M60? I didn't think Elzetta was selling them anymore.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> Where did you get your ZFL-M60? I didn't think Elzetta was selling them anymore.


I got a brand new one form the marketplace


----------



## choombak

Modernflame said:


> Where did you get your ZFL-M60? I didn't think Elzetta was selling them anymore.



Secondary market, over at ar15 forums.


----------



## Jose Marin

Modernflame said:


> Where did you get your ZFL-M60? I didn't think Elzetta was selling them anymore.



Sometimes on the river the prices for a bravo/charlie complete lights dip really low and they of course have the old m60. I know it sounds crazy to buy a whole light for just the module but i basically paid an extra 20 bucks for a head, body and tail cap for mine. 

Edit, there's a bravo on there right now actually for 89. Module new use to be 69 so not that bad of a deal


----------



## Modernflame

Jose Marin said:


> Sometimes on the river the prices for a bravo/charlie complete lights dip really low and they of course have the old m60. I know it sounds crazy to buy a whole light for just the module but i basically paid an extra 20 bucks for a head, body and tail cap for mine.
> 
> Edit, there's a bravo on there right now actually for 89. Module new use to be 69 so not that bad of a deal



On the river? Sorry, I don't follow. What's that?


----------



## Johnnyh

Amazon


----------



## Modernflame

Johnnyh said:


> Amazon




Now it comes clear. Thank you.


----------



## mamelo

Does the Bravo/Charlie high-low tailcap fit and will reliably engage with a stock or bored Surefire 6P (with a Malkoff dropin)? And how does it look like...


----------



## Modernflame

mamelo said:


> Does the Bravo/Charlie high-low tailcap fit and will reliably engage with a stock or bored Surefire 6P (with a Malkoff dropin)? And how does it look like...



I sold my last 6P a while back, but I don't think they are compatible. If I remember correctly, the Elzetta tail cap is too short to cover the O-ring, although it will make contact.

I currently have a Malkoff tail cap on my Elzetta Bravo, but my Elzetta tail cap is also too short for any Malkoff host. Of course the Malkoff MD series battery tubes are compatible with Surefire tail caps. If that makes any sense at all.


----------



## choombak

And now I have three (okay, one goes away shortly on some real duty). I think I should never have visited this thread... . Grabbed another ZFL-M60 from the big river site while the prices were insanely low... I guess anything that has Malkoff written on it is interesting stuff. ;-)


----------



## Greenbean

choombak said:


> Apparently, elephants respond well to strobe and its typically a high stress.



That makes sense for some reason to me, but I never knew that. No I’m gonna have to get another Elzetta to try and use 8n daily life. I had three or four and parts a few years back but got out of them for some reason. I still have some M60 and M60F modules though. I always did like the compactness of the light and the feel. 

I want to try a three cell and my M91B in an Elzetta now. 


Can I ask if possibly the elephant is responding to strobe because it’s so unnatural and might look similar to a thunderstorm as in lightening flashing in the environment. 

Just a thought.


----------



## bykfixer

Modernflame said:


> Be careful with that Elzetta, sir. It may spawn duplicates and infest your home!





choombak said:


> And now I have three (okay, one goes away shortly on some real duty). I think I should never have visited this thread... . Grabbed another ZFL-M60 from the big river site while the prices were insanely low... I guess anything that has Malkoff written on it is interesting stuff. ;-)



You were warned. lol

Good stuff.


----------



## mamelo

Modernflame said:


> I sold my last 6P a while back, but I don't think they are compatible. If I remember correctly, the Elzetta tail cap is too short to cover the O-ring, although it will make contact.



What a pity, I love how my 6P feels in my hand, better than my MD2s, but I need /want two output levels without click press oops wrong click again actions..
How is the grip of the Bravo compared to the MD2/6P?


----------



## vadimax

mamelo said:


> What a pity, I love how my 6P feels in my hand, better than my MD2s, but I need /want two output levels without click press oops wrong click again actions..
> How is the grip of the Bravo compared to the MD2/6P?



Bravo is perfect IMHO. Carried it constantly until messed up the bezel (accidental drop). But today I have received another AVS bezel (just love that modularity), so my Bravo returns to service 

The only drawback I have detected — Elzetta should use 70XX aluminum alloy instead of 60XX. The light is heavy due to its strong construction and a 5 ft drop to a concrete surface has left a deep and sharp nick on its bezel.


----------



## mamelo

vadimax said:


> Bravo is perfect IMHO. Carried it constantly until messed up the bezel (accidental drop). But today I have received another AVS bezel (just love that modularity), so my Bravo returns to service
> 
> The only drawback I have detected — Elzetta should use 70XX aluminum alloy instead of 60XX. The light is heavy due to its strong construction and a 5 ft drop to a concrete surface has left a deep and sharp nick on its bezel.



So the head still works, only the bezel ring was damaged?

Another question: I still have a Cryos head laying around, would it fit with a Malkoff dropin? Or Sufire 6P head with a dropin? (Then the Cryos should fit too...)


----------



## flatline

What are the internal diameters of the Alpha and Bravo?

--flatline


----------



## INFRNL

flatline said:


> What are the internal diameters of the Alpha and Bravo?
> 
> --flatline


Are you asking for the dia of the bore of the body? It appears that the body bore is just under 17mm. My cheap calipers are not cooperating but It looks like around 16.94mm +/-


----------



## flatline

INFRNL said:


> Are you asking for the dia of the bore of the body? It appears that the body bore is just under 17mm. My cheap calipers are not cooperating but It looks like around 16.94mm +/-



That's too bad. No 18650 battery for the Bravo.

I don't like buying cr123a primary cells, so if a light doesn't have a good rechargeable option, I tend to skip it.

--flatline


----------



## Johnnyh

flatline said:


> That's too bad. No 18650 battery for the Bravo.
> 
> I don't like buying cr123a primary cells, so if a light doesn't have a good rechargeable option, I tend to skip it.
> 
> --flatline



My Bravo runs great on a Keepower 16650.


----------



## vadimax

flatline said:


> That's too bad. No 18650 battery for the Bravo.
> 
> I don't like buying cr123a primary cells, so if a light doesn't have a good rechargeable option, I tend to skip it.
> 
> --flatline



You do not need a 18650 battery. You need an UR16650ZTA 2500mAh cell (4.35V max) for it.


----------



## INFRNL

flatline said:


> That's too bad. No 18650 battery for the Bravo.
> 
> I don't like buying cr123a primary cells, so if a light doesn't have a good rechargeable option, I tend to skip it.
> 
> --flatline


As others have mentioned, the Bravo does very well on the 2500mah 16650 cells.

I haven't looked in a while, but Oveready sells bored Bravo's to accommodate 18mm cells. However there are certain 18mm cells that are either a tight fit or do not fit at all in the OR bored Bravo's (I found this out the hard way). There is also an option to find a machine shop locally to bore one out, bore it yourself, or wait for one in the marketplace. They usually show up pretty regularly.

Alpha on the other hand is one piece body/head and i do not think it is possible to bore one out or it would be extremely difficult.


----------



## Modernflame

mamelo said:


> What a pity, I love how my 6P feels in my hand, better than my MD2s, but I need /want two output levels without click press oops wrong click again actions..
> How is the grip of the Bravo compared to the MD2/6P?



I'm not very particular when it comes to knurling. I like the MD2 very much. I'll say that the Bravo has the most aggressive knurling of the three that you mentioned. 



flatline said:


> That's too bad. No 18650 battery for the Bravo.



+1 on the 16650. You don't get quite the regulation as 2xCR123's but it's not much different in practical use.


----------



## choombak

Greenbean said:


> That makes sense for some reason to me, but I never knew that. No I’m gonna have to get another Elzetta to try and use 8n daily life. I had three or four and parts a few years back but got out of them for some reason. I still have some M60 and M60F modules though. I always did like the compactness of the light and the feel.
> 
> I want to try a three cell and my M91B in an Elzetta now.
> 
> 
> *Can I ask if possibly the elephant is responding to strobe because it’s so unnatural and might look similar to a thunderstorm as in lightening flashing in the environment. *
> 
> Just a thought.



Something like that. And elephants have weak eyes that can't take strong flickering light.


----------



## lightknot

Good source for Elzetta's in 2018? I missed he great amazon purge last year..


----------



## lightknot

Apologies for the duplicate post.


----------



## peter yetman

flatline said:


> That's too bad. No 18650 battery for the Bravo.
> 
> I don't like buying cr123a primary cells, so if a light doesn't have a good rechargeable option, I tend to skip it.
> 
> --flatline




There's a bored Bravo and Charlie for sale here...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...quality-flashlight-sale&p=5183128#post5183128

P


----------



## mamelo

Modernflame said:


> I'm not very particular when it comes to knurling. I like the MD2 very much. I'll say that the Bravo has the most aggressive knurling of the three that you mentioned.



Thanks. A couple of years back I was tempted to buy a Bravo for Malkoff dropins, never pushed the button though, but now I ordered one. 

Did you observe any wear at the tail / cap threads caused by frequent hi-lo actions?


----------



## RI Chevy

Just a heads up on the bored Bravos. They don't accept all 18650 batteries, only the thinner shorter cells. I personally run Panasonic unprotected cells in mine. 
But not all cells fit.
I also use the 16650 cells in my unbored Bravo. I actually like the 16650 Sanyo cells better.


----------



## Modernflame

mamelo said:


> Thanks. A couple of years back I was tempted to buy a Bravo for Malkoff dropins, never pushed the button though, but now I ordered one.
> 
> Did you observe any wear at the tail / cap threads caused by frequent hi-lo actions?



No, I've never observed any such wear. The O-ring is really what takes the abuse. If you use the high/low feature a lot, you'll eventually have to replace the O-ring. Still, that takes a long time. 

O-rings are cheap, so it's a non-issue for me.


----------



## choombak

lightknot said:


> Good source for Elzetta's in 2018? I missed he great amazon purge last year..



The big river site often has great prices on the older generation ZFL-M60 variants. I recently got one, and from the condition of the packaging (lot of dust all around, including on the light), it appears they have several in their warehouses collecting dust (literally!).


----------



## BugoutBoys

Modernflame said:


> Where did you get your ZFL-M60? I didn't think Elzetta was selling them anymore.



I just bought one on eBay to decide if I wanted that or the AVS. Decided on the AVS and now I'm trying to sell the old Bravo


----------



## Modernflame

BugoutBoys said:


> I just bought one on eBay to decide if I wanted that or the AVS. Decided on the AVS and now I'm trying to sell the old Bravo



Agreed. The AVS is superior in every way, at least in my opinion.


----------



## INFRNL

BugoutBoys said:


> I just bought one on eBay to decide if I wanted that or the AVS. Decided on the AVS and now I'm trying to sell the old Bravo


If i didn't already own 3 Bravo's, I'd help you out. You shouldn't have any issues finding it a new home though




Modernflame said:


> Agreed. The AVS is superior in every way, at least in my opinion.


This is probably one of the reasons why they discontinued the drop-in option. Just no need now that they have it dialed in.

Has anyone ever noticed the similarities between m60 and avs. I took apart a m60 the other day to clean it up a bit. AVS lens is basically a larger version of the m60.

There is obviously size differences and some design differences, but i didn't know about the similarity till the other day


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> Has anyone ever noticed the similarities between m60 and avs. I took apart a m60 the other day to clean it up a bit. AVS lens is basically a larger version of the m60.



I never owned an M60, but I noticed that the size and shape of the AVS light engine is the same as Malkoff M series drop ins. That's why the M60, the AVS, and Malkoff M61 variants are able to share the same Elzetta battery tubes. 

It's got Gene Malkoff's fingerprints on it, but adding the AVS tech and the interchangeable optics was a touch of originality.


----------



## INFRNL

Modernflame said:


> I never owned an M60, but I noticed that the size and shape of the AVS light engine is the same as Malkoff M series drop ins. That's why the M60, the AVS, and Malkoff M61 variants are able to share the same Elzetta battery tubes.
> 
> It's got Gene Malkoff's fingerprints on it, but adding the AVS tech and the interchangeable optics was a touch of originality.



Yes, i do like how easy it is to go from normal to flood. I do also like how the avs is auto voltage sensing. I'm sure most of it is originality


----------



## Greenbean

Don’t the AVS heads use XM-L2 or maybe now XP-Ls? Hence the voltage sensing and higher output depending. 

I know the common led in the M60s was an XP-G2 right? May have been another CREE as they all seemed to have the same tint without much variation. 

I have an M60 module with the optic and it’s a decent optic, just a bit more throw and hotspot than the M61 from Gene but at times I have carried in on my duty belt. Now the M60 flood is reserved for household lights or keeping in a glove box. They seem great for that! Work great in a G2 for under the hood and stuff too.


----------



## dtmbinb

I've got a older Bravo and love it. Very robust light. I use it as a WML on an AR. Nice throw with the m60.


----------



## archimedes

Greenbean said:


> ....
> I know the common led in the M60s was an XP-G2 right? May have been another CREE as they all seemed to have the same tint without much variation.
> ....



Most (not all) M60 were XR-E ....


----------



## bykfixer

I find it interesting that M60 talk is on the Elzetta thread. The junky thread seems to all be about the engines that end with 1. 

Anyway, I was thinking that at one point an M60 was an either or number where the numbers 17 and 90 were used to distiguish the thrower from the flooder. So when an M60 thrower came up for sale I bought it for a Pentagon cop light to see if it did indeed toss a beam farther than my M61 equipped 6P. Dang sure did too.

It was all ringy-like with a cool beam that would definitely be scoffed at these days. But man, I'd bet back then folks must've thought they'd died and gone to heaven where flashlights had 100,000 hour light bulbs with whopping runtimes and brightness.


----------



## Greenbean

archimedes said:


> Most (not all) M60 were XR-E ....



Thanks for the info, I knew I couldn’t remember that correct. Lol...


Yeah the M60 isn’t for a white wall hunter but I can testify for use on the street at work. You don’t even notice it. I keep it in a G2Z now for use in the winter time. I hate grabbing a cold metal light with bare hands. We don’t always have time to put gloves on.


----------



## archimedes

Greenbean said:


> Thanks for the info, I knew I couldn’t remember that correct. Lol...
> 
> Yeah the M60 isn’t for a white wall hunter but I can testify for use on the street at work. You don’t even notice it. I keep it in a G2Z now for use in the winter time. I hate grabbing a cold metal light with bare hands. We don’t always have time to put gloves on.



Sure, I mostly use my M60LL in a yellow G3


----------



## Rob Babcock

bykfixer said:


> I find it interesting that M60 talk is on the Elzetta thread. The junky thread seems to all be about the engines that end with 1.



I suppose there's a lot of overlap between Malkoff and Elzetta fans. Elzetta did start off almost as a client, making their bones on the reputation for toughness that relied in great part on the bombproof M60 dropin. And the two companies seem to have pretty similar product philosophies. While I love both brands, I am content to let Elzetta be Elzetta and Malkoff be Malkoff. I've got four Elzetta bodies counting my Alpha and all but one have Elzetta light engines. I do have one Bravo set up with an M61N which is an awesome light. But I really love the ones set up with the superb AVS heads, too.


----------



## Greenbean

archimedes said:


> Sure, I mostly use my M60LL in a yellow G3



Wait, a yellow G3?!

That’s rare isn’t it?

I remember the fireman’s model that looked like a G3 but haven’t seen anything other than black personally. 



I want an AVS model eventually, although I’m probably better off just buying an AVS head to go on a body. 

I wish the High/Low tailcaps weren’t so costly. Well that’s relative as I’ve spent triple that for some certain Surefire tailcaps but still. Lol...


----------



## bykfixer

Greenbean said:


> Thanks for the info, I knew I couldn’t remember that correct. Lol...
> 
> 
> Yeah the M60 isn’t for a white wall hunter but I can testify for use on the street at work. You don’t even notice it. I keep it in a G2Z now for use in the winter time. I hate grabbing a cold metal light with bare hands. We don’t always have time to put gloves on.



M60 was indeed a treasure. 
I remember folks saying you had to modify them to work in Pentagons. When I bought a used M60 the intention was a SureFire G2 but a Pentagon eX2 whispered "try it in me" and it fit pretty good with no mods at all. Fits a bit loose so heat sync isn't optimal I suppose. 
Kind of a novelty thing with a 5 side tailcap and the vintage Malkoff beam, but it's a holster friendly conversation starter. (For those few who actually give a rip about which flashlight you're using)


----------



## Greenbean

bykfixer said:


> (For those few who actually give a rip about which flashlight you're using)




True, true....

And they never care until they realize how much better you can see than they can. 

My Streamlight SL20 with the Malkoff drop-in always gets comments and questions! It’s unreal compared to the Incan version some of the guys still carry. 

Anyways, I have some Elzettas coming for testing at work, I do remember the fit being good as they seemed to be smaller diameter in the hand and pretty compact. 

I’m still going to need to get an AVS head though eventually. Until then one of my M91Bs is going into a 3-cell with the older smaller head.


----------



## Modernflame

Greenbean said:


> I’m still going to need to get an AVS head though eventually. Until then one of my M91Bs is going into a 3-cell with the older smaller head.



The AVS has a lot of great characteristics, but for what it's worth, I prefer the beam profile of the M91B because it has more of a traditional hotpot. Both the AVS and the M91B have wide beams, but I enjoy the effect of the reflector. All very subjective, of course.

Elzetta argues, rightly, that their AVS optic is tougher than a reflector, but you'd have to hit the front of that reflector with a photon torpedo to cause any damage.


----------



## marco.weiss

Modernflame said:


> Elzetta argues, rightly, that their AVS optic is tougher than a reflector, but you'd have to hit the front of that reflector with a photon torpedo to cause any damage.



lol


----------



## INFRNL

I am in the Elzetta thread, correct?:thinking:

Somehow I have worked my way up to 1 Charlie, 3 Bravo's (only 1 with AVS), and 1 Alpha 315. 1 Bravo and 1 Charlie, bored (by yours truly) to be able to actually accept 18650 protected cells. others are currently stock bodies. Sadly my bored Bravo was initially purchased from oveready but I couldn't use any of my panasonic, lg, keeppower protected cells. Only my AW protected would fit but I am not paying $20+ per cell.


----------



## vadimax

INFRNL said:


> I am in the Elzetta thread, correct?:thinking:
> 
> Somehow I have worked my way up to 1 Charlie, 3 Bravo's (only 1 with AVS), and 1 Alpha 315. 1 Bravo and 1 Charlie, bored (by yours truly) to be able to actually accept 18650 protected cells. others are currently stock bodies. Sadly my bored Bravo was initially purchased from oveready but I couldn't use any of my panasonic, lg, keeppower protected cells. Only my AW protected would fit but I am not paying $20+ per cell.



Sorry, but what’s wrong with using unprotected batteries? When I notice the brightness go down I check the battery (16650 in my case) and recharge it. Never managed to overdischarge a battery. And this is probably the main reason I stopped buying protected cells — I prefer not to pay for something I never use (sorry, sorry, lights themselves do not count ).


----------



## peter yetman

I'm the same as you Vad, I've gone over to unprotected as I've had a few PCBs fail on me. Also, I really don't like being left in the dark.
The only thing that worries me is using them in series. I've now bought a charger that will do a capacity test to keep it a bit safer.
P


----------



## vadimax

peter yetman said:


> I'm the same as you Vad, I've gone over to unprotected as I've had a few PCBs fail on me. Also, I really don't like being left in the dark.
> The only thing that worries me is using them in series. I've now bought a charger that will do a capacity test to keep it a bit safer.
> P



I guess multicell lights feature their own overdischarge protection. For example, my several years old TN32 first drops off high modes and later — starts a warning blinking (3 times in a row with 1 minute interval) when its battery cage total voltage drops to 9V (3V each cell).

Regarding Elzetta (Bravo in my case) — multicell (2xRCR123) load produces brightness oscillations (900 <-> 600 lm) when each battery voltage drops to 3.414V. Just cannot do not notice that


----------



## peter yetman

It's the worry of pairing two cells with non matching capacities due to age of abuse that's doing it for me..
P


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL said:


> I am in the Elzetta thread, correct?:thinking:
> 
> Somehow I have worked my way up to 1 Charlie, 3 Bravo's (only 1 with AVS), and 1 Alpha 315. 1 Bravo and 1 Charlie, bored (by yours truly) to be able to actually accept 18650 protected cells. others are currently stock bodies. Sadly my bored Bravo was initially purchased from oveready but I couldn't use any of my panasonic, lg, keeppower protected cells. Only my AW protected would fit but I am not paying $20+ per cell.



I'm sure your machinist skills are up to snuff, but aren't you worried about removing too much material from the host? I sold my bored out Charile, but I remember being frustrated initially that it would accept only AW unprotected cells. Later on, I observed that OR had cut into the threads about as far as I'd be willing to go. 

Your Charlie tube would be the counter example that proves me wrong, of course. If you have an opportunity, would you mind posting a photo of the threads?


----------



## RI Chevy

I have been using unprotected 18500 Sanyo cells for a few years now. No issues at all. I pay close attention to the cell voltage and keep the cells matched up. As soon as I see a slight output in lumens, I recharge. 
I prefer the 16650 cells in my Bravo. They work fine for around the house stuff.


----------



## Kamerat

Kamerat said:


> My dear alpha fell 60-70 cm onto its butt, i.e. the high low tail switch. It didn't like the meet with the bathroom tiles and the light has decided to only show me high. Very disappointed.



Elzetta replaced the Alpha High-Low tailcap. The pin was damaged after the mentioned fall. Thanks to Elzetta for hassle free and great customer service.


----------



## Jose Marin

Anyone ever modify the throw optic on the avs head to make it more of a uniform spot rather than the fried egg beam it has factory? I know there is a flood optic but id rather still have some throw.


----------



## Modernflame

Jose Marin said:


> Anyone ever modify the throw optic on the avs head to make it more of a uniform spot rather than the fried egg beam it has factory? I know there is a flood optic but id rather still have some throw.



I've never tried to modify it, but I have tried to replace it with various carclo optics. Never had any success. After living with the standard AVS lens for some time, I've come to terms with its beam pattern.


----------



## vadimax

Jose Marin said:


> Anyone ever modify the throw optic on the avs head to make it more of a uniform spot rather than the fried egg beam it has factory? I know there is a flood optic but id rather still have some throw.



I have settled the issue another way: Elzetta AVS with flood lens + Surefire Fury in another pocket


----------



## Modernflame

Elzetta Bravo AVS with a Malkoff Tricap. The finish doesn't quite match, but for those less aesthetically sensitive, it adds just the right amount of length to balance it in hand. I always felt like the Bravo was a tad front heavy and a little short for my grip. The anti-roll characteristics are outstanding. And now it can tail stand! Of course, this sacrifices the low beam, but I don't use the low setting much on this light anyway. Elzetta's switches are nice, but I prefer the shrouded soft press.


----------



## marco.weiss

Modernflame Frankenstein attacks again. lol
I liked the creature!


----------



## marco.weiss

Did any of you ever need to contact elzetta support? Which email did you send a message to? How was the service? I already sent some emails to them but no response. One month since the first contact ...


----------



## bykfixer

marco.weiss said:


> Did any of you ever need to contact elzetta support? Which email did you send a message to? How was the service? I already sent some emails to them but no response. One month since the first contact ...



One week max any time I've contacted them but....
I make sure the title stands out in a positive way from the rest of the crowd of emails that clutter the inbox of companies... 
Honey attracts more flies than vinegar and all that. Elzetta has a small staff who stay in the field a lot. So time spent answering emails is not one of their strong points. 

Gene Malkoff is rare treasure. It seems he can build flashlights, eat lunch and answer emails at the same time.


----------



## marco.weiss

really, the title of the email is important ... I will try one more time with an even better title ... I agree with you. malkoff is the best company in post and pre sales service I have ever had contact with. for me this defines how much my next purchases will be.


----------



## Modernflame

marco.weiss said:


> really, the title of the email is important ... I will try one more time with an even better title ... I agree with you. malkoff is the best company in post and pre sales service I have ever had contact with. for me this defines how much my next purchases will be.




Try emailing Wade. The info mail box is a graveyard for lost emails. I have unanswered emails there more than a year old.


----------



## XR6Toggie

I emailed Elzetta once when I was working nightshift and I approximated US time to be business hours. I had a reply from them within a couple of hours and that was to the info account. I used the title ‘Elzetta to Aus’ which probably stands out a little bit more than a lot of emails.


----------



## marco.weiss

will we be lucky enough to see a new flashlight from elzetta? I am anxious to see what they will reveal.


----------



## vadimax

Elzetta Alpha Camo Cerakote Limited Edition has been released. Ordered one.


----------



## neutralwhite

Ordered!.


----------



## bykfixer

They'll probably go fast. The copper one last year was gone in a couple of weeks.

If you want this years limited issue ya better hurry.


----------



## the0dore3524

I have a normal Alpha, but yeah, the want is real...


----------



## RI Chevy

I got in on the Camo Alpha! [emoji106]

It's already on the way to me.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Hmmm...kind of disappointing. I'm sure it's well done but it's hard enough to keep track of black lights while camping and hiking, a camo one is just begging to be left in the forest forever! I really regret missing out on the yellow one.


----------



## vadimax

Rob Babcock said:


> Hmmm...kind of disappointing. I'm sure it's well done but it's hard enough to keep track of black lights while camping and hiking, a camo one is just begging to be left in the forest forever! I really regret missing out on the yellow one.


Well, in the dark there is no difference whether it is black or camo as our vision reduces to monochrome


----------



## thermal guy

Not trying to open up a can of worms but, can someone explain why elzetta is no longer in bed with malkoff. I tried looking back through thread but can't seem to find it thanks.


----------



## bykfixer

Elzetta used Gene's modules in the beginning because they were the only ones readily available to suit the durability Elzetta was striving for. Both were upstarts back then.

They started building their own stuff at some point. 

Only the two of them could say whether the departure was on good terms or not. But I'd bet a pepsi it was. Gene helped Elzetta go, Elzetta helped add capital to Gene's enterprise. Win-win.


----------



## RI Chevy

My understanding that Elzetta bought the rights to producing the M60 modules. 
Nonetheless, both Elzetta and Malkoff lights are some of the best and strongest available!


----------



## thermal guy

Oh I know they are both great lights. I have several malkoff's. Wanted to try out an elzetta. can you still run m60's in elzetta lights or did they change the design of the light?


----------



## RI Chevy

You can, but you need an older Elzetta ZFL style. The new Charlie and Bravo with the AVS heads will not allow the use of the M60 module. The M60 is fully enclosed and sealed and slightly different than the M61s and M91s.


----------



## Modernflame

thermal guy said:


> can you still run m60's in elzetta lights or did they change the design of the light?





RI Chevy said:


> You can, but you need an older Elzetta ZFL style. The new Charlie and Bravo with the AVS heads will not allow the use of the M60 module. The M60 is fully enclosed and sealed and slightly different than the M61s and M91s.



According to the Elzetta website, they still have some of the ZFL style bezels in stock, even though they don't sell the M60 anymore. You can run the current M61 / M91 Malkoff modules in the ZFL bezel if you also use the lens/gasket kit, which is available on the Malkoff website for a couple of bucks. 

There are some dealers who may still have complete ZFL-M60 flashlights in stock. For example, battery station shows them available, although I've heard that their website may not be up to date. Amazon also has a few.


----------



## thermal guy

Ouch. Ok thanks


----------



## Rob Babcock

vadimax said:


> Well, in the dark there is no difference whether it is black or camo as our vision reduces to monochrome



Yeah, but half the time it's day time! Dark colors are generally harder to see and find in your pack and when you set them down. I'll always love basic black but camo, that's just askin' for trouble!


----------



## RI Chevy

New Camo Alpha. Very nice!


----------



## bykfixer

Good score Grijon!! 

Looks great.


----------



## fordcappy

( I have to keep editing this post to phrase the question properly) Might be a dumb question but does Elzetta make both limited edition and special edition lights? I have 3 "editions" The blue bones and the yellow Alpha, both have indications they are different from regular lights "Decade edition" and "Limited edition"; the Camo Alpha does not have any such engraving on it. Is this how Elzetta handles their limited run lights? Some with engravings indicating an "edition" light and some with nothing.

And got mine today. What a fast turnaround.


----------



## RI Chevy

???? Do what?


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

thermal guy said:


> Oh I know they are both great lights. I have several malkoff's. Wanted to try out an elzetta. can you still run m60's in elzetta lights or did they change the design of the light?



One of my favorite lights is an Elzetta host with a Malkoff M61HCRI2 and a high low tailcap. After getting used to high low function at the head end of Malkoffs, the tail adjustment take some getting used to, but works great.


----------



## bykfixer

At fordcappy:

Every year Elzetta does one limited edition. This years was the camo Alpha. One year it was a yellow Bravo, another year was a copper Alpha.

They also did a 10 year edition of the Bones in "denim blue". 

Honestly I don't know the story behind your yellow Alpha there. Perhaps that was their 2017 limited edition?


----------



## the0dore3524

Yellow Alpha was a while back. I think 2015? Flashlightguide.com has a post on it.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

bykfixer said:


> At fordcappy:
> 
> Every year Elzetta does one limited edition. This years was the camo Alpha. One year it was a yellow Bravo, another year was a copper Alpha.
> 
> They also did a 10 year edition of the Bones in "denim blue".
> 
> Honestly I don't know the story behind your yellow Alpha there. Perhaps that was their 2017 limited edition?



I have a yellow Alpha, it was the 2015 Limited Edition light. High only with click tailcap. I just ordered the camo with high/low to go with it (and my black Alpha).


----------



## bykfixer

Yeah, I noticed the camo had 'options'. Cool. 

I missed the yellow alpha. Maybe I was incorrect about it being a yellow Bravo? 

But that copper clad Alpha was the shizzle. It was right about the time they'd changed to the 415 lumen model. So I had a black 315 to do side by side with. The 315 lumen version had/has its merits but the upgrade was sure nice for the Alpha becoming a bonafide backup. 
The copper version also didn't have tailcap options iirc.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

bykfixer said:


> Yeah, I noticed the camo had 'options'. Cool.
> 
> I missed the yellow alpha. Maybe I was incorrect about it being a yellow Bravo?
> 
> But that copper clad Alpha was the shizzle. It was right about the time they'd changed to the 415 lumen model. So I had a black 315 to do side by side with. The 315 lumen version had/has its merits but the upgrade was sure nice for the Alpha becoming a bonafide backup.
> The copper version also didn't have tailcap options iirc.




I was really excited to be able to get the High/Low tail on the camo one for sure... it makes the light really usable. 

The yellow says 2015 on the body and tailcap. The copper was the 2016 (I really wanted to buy it, but kept thinking about how it would make my hands smell funny when using it, Haha!) and the blue Bones one was the 2017.


----------



## JPA261

So I just received an Elzetta Alpha 415 lumen model directly from Elzetta. I feel like this does not put out 415 lumens because my m60 feels a lot brighter. 

Thinking about calling and sending it back to Elzetta, maybe the electronics are defective. However, I want to ask here if anyone else experienced this or could post beam shots of their 415 lumen model.


----------



## Modernflame

JPA261 said:


> So I just received an Elzetta Alpha 415 lumen model directly from Elzetta. I feel like this does not put out 415 lumens because my m60 feels a lot brighter.
> 
> Thinking about calling and sending it back to Elzetta, maybe the electronics are defective. However, I want to ask here if anyone else experienced this or could post beam shots of their 415 lumen model.



It sounds more like a function of beam tint/beam profile than output. The Alpha has a wider beam than the M60, and therefore does not have a bright hot spot. Also, the Alpha's neutral beam tint will subtract somewhat from the appearance of brightness, although it will render color better.

The Alpha is not for everyone, but I doubt the electronics are defective.


----------



## Jose Marin

The alpha is really floody and a warmer tint compared to the more throwy/cooler m60 so itll be hard to compare them side by side. If you can measure amperage i think it pulls 1 amp with a 16340 if i can remember correctly. 1 amp should be in the neighborhood of 400 lumens. Sorry i sold mine or I'd post pics for you


----------



## bykfixer

The Alpha is a close quarters lighter. The M60 was a beam intended for more 'down range' light. 
Try shining it into say an unlit car trunk vs the M60. Both should be lit similar overall. 
The beam of the 415 version does have better throw than the 315 version that at about 35 feet abruptly stopped. The 415 has more of a conical tip to the beam. 

And like others said the chosen tint doesn't cause a reaction to the pupils like an M60.


----------



## Modernflame

Another thing to remember is that the human eye is a poor judge of brightness. Even if the M60 and the Alpha had the same beam tint and optic, your eyes would not be impressed by the increase from 230lm to 415lm. 

I have a 300lm and a 500lm version of another flashlight, but they are basically the same. In fact, I can only tell them apart because one of them has a ding on the tail cap.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Yup.
I have one that is much less output than the stuff being discussed here. It's a dual LED light that doubles the output when both are lit instead of one. 
Often times I turn on the 2nd LED (thereby doubling its output) and wonder if it actually did turn on as I see virtually no added brightness. 
Being both are identical in beam shape I do note added distance is lit, but my eyes do not see the change unless I study the distance before turning on the 2nd LED.

Not saying there isn't a potential for there to be an issue with the Alpha being discussed. Just that an Alpha 415 wouldn't be some ginormous change versus an M60.


----------



## JPA261

Well thanks everyone for the feedback. Yeah for some reason just didn’t impress me much and my HDS 200 puts out more than the Alpha.


----------



## Modernflame

JPA261 said:


> Well thanks everyone for the feedback. Yeah for some reason just didn’t impress me much and my HDS 200 puts out more than the Alpha.



Your HDS uses a very nice reflector that certainly produces more candella than the Alpha. Even though it's hard to beat an HDS for a 1xCR123 light, you have to consider that the Elzetta Alpha is intended for high stress, close quarters encounters with the most unsavory characters. It's supposed to be simple to operate and provide a wide area of illumination for situational awareness.

One more test before you decide to return it. Go to a relatively confined area after dark, preferably outside. Perhaps the spaces on either side of your house, or maybe the corner of your back yard. Switch on the Alpha and see if you're not impressed with the amount of light at your peripherals. That's the niche that the Alpha was designed to fill.


----------



## bykfixer

The Alpha is a niche light. A tool in a tool box so-to-speak And it fills that role like a phillips head screwdriver or a spanner wrench does. It gets a thumbs down very often. But for those who make a living hurredly identifying friend or foe indoors it is one of only a few lights available that fits the role brilliantly.


----------



## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> The Alpha is a niche light. A tool in a tool box so-to-speak And it fills that role like a phillips head screwdriver or a spanner wrench does. It gets a thumbs down very often. But for those who make a living hurredly identifying friend or foe indoors it is one of only a few lights available that fits the role brilliantly.



Well said, byk. One could say that Elzetta is a niche company. I appreciate the way they've ignored the lumen wars and stuck to their charter purposes of building unbreakable tactical lights.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Yeah, they know their role and what they're trying to do. I also greatly appreciate their use of optics instead of reflectors. No knock on reflectors, I have a bunch of Malkoffs. But for some applications I just prefer the solid acrylic optic of the Elzetta lines. No matter what kind of treatment you apply to a 1 mm thick glass lens it isn't going to stand up to the abuse that 1" thick acrylic optic of the AVS head can!


----------



## neutralwhite

I see you can buy the old zfl m60 body from Elzetta but not the m60 drop in.
anywhere else to get these ?.


----------



## archimedes

If you mean specifically the M60 ... I think they have been discontinued, for a while now.

If you mean Malkoff dropins generally ... well there are a few places, including directly from Malkoff.


----------



## Modernflame

neutralwhite said:


> I see you can buy the old zfl m60 body from Elzetta but not the m60 drop in.
> anywhere else to get these ?.



You can still buy a complete ZFL M60 from Amazon, but you'd be hard pressed to find a stand alone M60 anywhere. A WTB thread might turn one up on the marketplace here.


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks. but the ZFL-M60, does the drop in have to be M60?. or can it be another what fits? 
looking for a Malkoff CW drop in for the ZFL. 
thanks


----------



## archimedes

neutralwhite said:


> thanks. but the ZFL-M60, does the drop in have to be M60?. or can it be another what fits?
> looking for a Malkoff CW drop in for the ZFL.
> thanks



So, all of the standard Malkoff dropins will "fit" but you need to ensure that they will match the correct voltage.

You may also need a lens / gasket set, if appropriate.


----------



## Modernflame

neutralwhite said:


> thanks. but the ZFL-M60, does the drop in have to be M60?. or can it be another what fits?
> looking for a Malkoff CW drop in for the ZFL.
> thanks



You'll need the MD2 lens/gasket kit from the Malkoff website. There may be other suitable lenses, but I don't know where to get them. If you're using the Bravo (2 cell) Elzetta host, any of the M61 variants will operate on 2 x CR123 or 1 x 16650. 

Like Archimedes said, check to make sure the voltage is correct. The product pages on the Malkoff website list the input voltage ranges for each module.


----------



## neutralwhite

can a prometheus Ti Clip or their PVD clip, fit a BONES?.
does anyone use a clip on their bones?.

thanks.


----------



## Johnnyh

I used the Prometheus Ti clip on my Bones, fit perfect. Donated the Bones to my son but kept the clip for use on my Bravo.


----------



## desert.snake

Hooray! Finally I read this topic (started about 3 weeks ago).

It was very informative, thank you to everyone! I decided to find somewhere an alpha,
and found it on ebay. Version with 315 lumens and high / low mode.

I use it for about a week, several times dropped randomly. Then I noticed that the lens has cracks.
A small analysis led me to the fact that under certain conditions this construction has weak points.
I mean the lens design. The lens has a thin edge and rests on it without any buffer,
while acrylic has a tendency to break with shocks. 

The condition of this is a blow directly on the lens, without touching the aluminum frame
(which very well absorbs and distributes the impact force)











If you imagine the situation when such a blow is made on the lens, and then all of this falls into the water,
then the water seeps in and there may be a short circuit around the diode.


I thought that there might be several options for solving this potential problem.

1) Instead of an acrylic lens, use polycarbonate lens. This is much stronger and does not tend to crack.

something like a lexan or other material similar in properties

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4fCUNxvvwY

2) Change the design of the head, making something like an internal suspension or protection glass





4) An additional measure for any previous solution - make a cast from heat-resistant epoxy around the LED,
this will close all the possibilities for water to enter the electrically conductive parts of the diode and the driver.
This will make the module completely waterproof, but at the same time it is not repairable how the P60 bulb modules .






I know perfectly well that my opinion is not interesting to the manufacturer,
so I just ordered an extra lens, a speed clip and more stuff,
now I'm thinking about getting Bravo with High/Low switch cap :twothumbs


----------



## kj2

I would write an email Elzetta, and tell them about this. Maybe they won't help you, but they can always improve on design. Even a simple small o-ring between the lens and bezel would help a bit.


----------



## desert.snake

I wrote to them about lens from lexan, maybe they'll take it for a note for the future, maybe not.
This is their business. I just shared my thoughts and I do not see the point of bombing
them with letters, 1 time is enough.


The described situatation is extremely rare,
so 99.99% of all Elzetta's lanterns owners are unlikely to encounter this.
For their usual use, their strength is sufficient.
Even more increased strength may be needed only for the Space Marine, years through 50-70,
but there will already be new problems with beams cosmic radiations.

In the near future I will try to run Alpha from 16650 and 2* AA and will write here.


----------



## delus

++ Modernflame A couple months ago you mentioned adding a Malkoff TriCap to a bravo to provide anti-roll, and tail stand. I should have done this years ago. How does that work exactly?
There's only one size of tricap, right? Malkoff site says it fits Fits md2, md3, or md4. This will fit any bravo or charlie?
Is it just as secure as an elzetta cap, once you tighten it down, it stays tight?
The switch press is softer than an elzetta, but that's OK because it's protected by the cap's wings? How much softer? Momentary works the same?
Any other details you could mention?


----------



## Modernflame

delus said:


> ++ Modernflame A couple months ago you mentioned adding a Malkoff TriCap to a bravo to provide anti-roll, and tail stand. I should have done this years ago. How does that work exactly?
> There's only one size of tricap, right? Malkoff site says it fits Fits md2, md3, or md4. This will fit any bravo or charlie?
> Is it just as secure as an elzetta cap, once you tighten it down, it stays tight?
> The switch press is softer than an elzetta, but that's OK because it's protected by the cap's wings? How much softer? Momentary works the same?
> Any other details you could mention?



Yes, there is only one Malkoff tricap and it is compatible with all of the Malkoff MD series bodies, plus Surefire and probably some others. It will work with on an Elzetta and it will be secure, but the threads inside the tricap are deeper inside the tail cap than the threads in an Elzetta tail cap. In other words, you have to push the tricap down further before it will engage the threads. In the end, you get somewhat less thread engagement. But it works! No contact issues, no play in the threads, etc. 

The switch is much softer, which I prefer, and is also user replaceable at a low cost, if necessary. The shrouding on the tail cap prevents most unintentional activation, but I suppose you could still switch it on accidentally under the right circumstances. The momentary also works the same. Half press for momentary, click on for constant. 

Of course, you sacrifice the low beam, but you can always reinstall your high/low tail cap if you need it.


----------



## nmiller

desert.snake said:


> I wrote to them about lens from lexan, maybe they'll take it for a note for the future, maybe not.
> This is their business. I just shared my thoughts and I do not see the point of bombing
> them with letters, 1 time is enough.
> 
> 
> The described situatation is extremely rare,
> so 99.99% of all Elzetta's lanterns owners are unlikely to encounter this.
> For their usual use, their strength is sufficient.
> Even more increased strength may be needed only for the Space Marine, years through 50-70,
> but there will already be new problems with beams cosmic radiations.
> 
> In the near future I will try to run Alpha from 16650 and 2* AA and will write here.



I don't know that the cracked lens is as rare as you think. Mine has suffered the same fate. So far doesn't effect performance so I haven't replaced it yet.


----------



## etc

I am not sure exactly which modules have it and which don't, but I was under the impression most (if not all) don't have support for the 18mm cell. 

They really need to add 18650 support and other 18mm cells to be viable.

Running it solely on the 123 cells puts them squarely in the dot gov dot mil market which is already saturated with Surefire. I think Elzetta is more competitive than the latter, better made all around but 18mm is the missing link. Lack of it is a deal breaker. I know one can improvise with various 17xxx cells, or even 16xxx but that is not the point.


----------



## lightknot

Agreed. Lack of 18mm battery availability is a deal breaker. Surprising, since the overall quality is outstanding.


----------



## Random Dan

I bought a 2-cell AVS here on the forums which had been bored by Oveready. Were it not bored I would rarely use it because it's not worth the hassle of dealing with 16650 cells when everything else I have is 18650. If Elzetta came out with a factory bored body I think it would be a winner.


----------



## tech25

FYI- They do have the Bones that is 18650 compatible.


----------



## Random Dan

tech25 said:


> FYI- They do have the Bones that is 18650 compatible.


It misses the hi/low tailcap though. For me a single mode light of that brightness is way too narrow purpose.


----------



## novice

lightknot said:


> Lack of 18mm battery availability is a deal breaker. Surprising, since the overall quality is outstanding.



Lack of support for 18mm cells, and the fact that the "Bones" model won't take the hi/lo tailcap, are the main reasons that has kept me from trying an Elzetta.


----------



## nmiller

Is anyone aware of optics that will fit the alpha or avs head that will give you more throw?


----------



## etc

novice said:


> Lack of support for 18mm cells, and the fact that the "Bones" model won't take the hi/lo tailcap, are the main reasons that has kept me from trying an Elzetta.



plus one



It's a nice light but about 10 years behind the schedule. It would have been cool circa 2008.
It's too expensive considering you have to ship it somewhere to get it bored for 18mm. Why do that when you can buy a light ready out of the box.
18mm support is a necessity these days.


----------



## vadimax

novice said:


> Lack of support for 18mm cells, and the fact that the "Bones" model won't take the hi/lo tailcap, are the main reasons that has kept me from trying an Elzetta.



Well, I use Sanyo UR16650ZTA 2500mAh in a standard Bravo and count it sufficient


----------



## etc

I use the same Sanyo cell in Surefire G2x Pro. It's not bad. It matches the runtime/capacity of 2x123 cells but does not exceed it like a high capacity 18650.


----------



## Random Dan

My main problem with 16650 isn't so much that the runtime isn't sufficient, but it's annoying to not be able to share batteries with everything else I have that runs on 18650.


----------



## etc

Random Dan said:


> My main problem with 16650 isn't so much that the runtime isn't sufficient, but it's annoying to not be able to share batteries with everything else I have that runs on 18650.



That too.


16650 is an odd size among Li-ion batteries which are already kind of odd in the mainstream (but becoming a bit less so).

if you standardize on 18650, everything else becomes a problem. yeah, you can use 16650 in 18650 lights but why? 

Plus I have doubts the cell has 2500 mAh. You know the ad'ed capacity is rarely the actual capacity.


----------



## Modernflame

The build quality is what first attracted me to Elzetta. Despite my profound appreciation for the Elzetta AVS, I was never the target customer since I don't carry weapons or work in law enforcement. I finally sold all my Elzetta stuff precisely because I was weary of dependence on lithium primaries. I don't want to have to choose between 18650 compatibility (Bones) and low beam capability (modular series). 

It is also clear to me that the AVS was never intended for pocket carry. It is a duty light, built from the ground up. Of course, I knew that up front, but I just craved that craftsman hammer type reliability. I've since found it elsewhere.


----------



## hatman

Can the Bones use the same size clip as the Alpha?

I use the Prometheus titanium clip on my Alphas -- want to know if they'll fit the Bones before I consider buying one.

Thanks.


----------



## hatman

hatman said:


> Can the Bones use the same size clip as the Alpha?
> 
> I use the Prometheus titanium clip on my Alphas -- want to know if they'll fit the Bones before I consider buying one.
> 
> Thanks.



Update -- I see that this question was asked and answered in post 3341 and 3342.


----------



## bykfixer

neutralwhite said:


> can a prometheus Ti Clip or their PVD clip, fit a BONES?.
> does anyone use a clip on their bones?.
> 
> thanks.





Johnnyh said:


> I used the Prometheus Ti clip on my Bones, fit perfect. Donated the Bones to my son but kept the clip for use on my Bravo.



Yes.


----------



## ftumch33

I just ordered an Elzetta Bones as they have a Memorial day code`REMEMBER`
I was looking at this light for quite some time as I have a bunch of 18650`s I carry and rated at 650 lumens is not overkill for using this as my work and run at night light.
I`m going to pair it with a Raven Concealement Clip (very sturdy)I use on my Malkoff lights.
Can`t wait to get it and try it out


----------



## bykfixer

The Bones is a very well thought out, stripped down version of a modern flashlight. Well worth the coin if you don't need anything but on/off in a flashlight. The beam in my view was the charm in that it is part thrower, part flooder and a tint that doesn't cause the user to squint. 

The only shortcoming is with all Elzetta lights, if hand held it puts out light all the way back to the user. Not good if you are in a role where you don't want an unseen perp to see your torsoe. To me, that's where SureFire pulls ahead of Elzetta in combat use. A gap in the light between the user and where light begins is a potential life saver. 

But for us regular folks the Bones is a great lighting tool. I use mine to light up darkened objects in the daytime. 

Good score btw.


----------



## desert.snake

nmiller said:


> I don't know that the cracked lens is as rare as you think. Mine has suffered the same fate. So far doesn't effect performance so I haven't replaced it yet.



Yes, cracks do not greatly affect the performance. dangerous cracks are those that are through to the core, 
through which water can get inside. Yesterday I received another, I did not do anything,
she just appeared deep inside, like ice crackles.






















I also noticed an interesting feature in the driver behavior.
Perhaps this is his normal behavior. At one point in time, I noticed that Alpha sometimes
does not turn on in weak mode, that is, out of 10 inclusions 1 does not work.
I had an idea that something was wrong with a button or pin to turn on weak mode.
After a while it began to repeat more often and at some point the flashlight stopped turning on
in weak mode. But if I turn on the strong mode and turn the cap, then the weak mode works again.
After a while, the weak regime ceased to be included even in this way.
Then the strong regime began to be unstable as well, in the end the situation has reached the point
where I turn on the button and nothing happens and it is necessary to turn the cap several times
(like SureFire 6P) when the button is turned on, so that the flashlight lights up.
...............
And then it dawned on me that the battery just died

It was the battery with which he came to me, she worked for about a 2 weeks with periodic use,
that is, I bathed with him, replacing the general lighting, walked around the neighborhood in the evening,
lit up dark places at work (I'm an electrician). In principle, my E1L eats batteries at the same speed.

I was confused by this driver behavior, I'm more used to behavior, like SureFire,
when the battery is exhausted, the light starts to flicker as a candle with a weak air movement
and fade out, and then it turns off. Here I found flicker of light only at the stage when
to turn on the weak mode I needed to turn on the strong mode and turn the cap off
to get a weak mode and then, when to turn on the strong mode it was required
to turn on the button and rotate the lid, as on SF 6P. 

It would be nice to introduce a low battery warning system.
I have an lantern produced in 1994 (lantern for railway service), it has this system and it works fine.
When the battery charge is nearing depletion, the flashlight starts to do 2 short blinks about once a minute.
The closer to exhaustion, the more often it does, it's actually very annoying,
but modern electronics would simply blink at the same frequency (2 times per minute),
this allows you to remember that the charge is small and you need to change the battery
or use it more economically.


----------



## MikeSalt

Have Elzetta addressed the optics support issue with the use of the 'reflector holder' discussed in The Lite Review, or did it have this holder from the start?


----------



## desert.snake

Hello, today I crawled through dark and dirty places at work.
I dirty my Alpha in dust, water and engine oil and decided to clean it in the evening.

It should be mentioned that when the hands are in slippery oil, turning the tail cap
is not convenient for switching to a weak mode or strong mode.
Very little grip. In this aspect, the SF defeats the Elzetta in my eyes,
the notches on the tailcap of the SF is gorgeous.

Waterproofness is also not at its best. Here it's not even a cracked lens,
case in the arrangement of the gaskets. 
The gasket must be between the TIR edge and the main body of the flashlight.
Then under external pressure, the TIR will pressure the gasket,
preventing water from entering. 

Now the gaskets are arranged so that, under external pressure and microdeformation
of the lens or its holder, there is the creation of microslits and the ingress of water into.

So, after work, I found inside (for TIR) a water mist. I dismantled the flashlight,
In addition to water vapor, a little oil. I gently rubbed all via the ethyl alcohol.

And here in my eyes the back of the TIR was covered with small cracks!
I thought and came to the conclusion that this is an acrylic reaction
to a certain temperature gradient on the surface.

Lenses are clearly made using casting technology. Cast acrylic requires subsequent
thermal treatment to remove internal stresses. But no one does this because of savings.
When the alcohol evaporates from the surface, it takes away heat and creates
a temperature unevenness. If the material has strong internal stresses,
then they are released and cause cracks. This is not a chemical reaction,
it is a purely physical reaction.

So I want to warn all Elzetta owners - do not use fast volatile liquids (especially alcohol) on the back of the TIR!


On the shape of the ray these small cracks have minimal effect.
































































Interestingly, on the inside of the flashlight, under the lens holder,
I found a laser inscription "LA-DA-SA-MA" and laughed very long.
The fact is that we had a car with almost the same name "LADA SAMARA"
it was just a rusty bucket with bolts. It rusts faster than Alpha-Romeo.


----------



## kj2

That's one ugly lens. Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## desert.snake

Yesterday I decided to check the time with different batteries.


06.56 Robiton 16340 550 mah
07.15 died


07.21 Tenergy LiFePO4 400 mah
07.23 brightness fell
07.26 died


07.27 second Tenergy
07.36 died


07.42 SF123 new (unused), made in 2006
08.31 brightness decreased noticeably
08.40 has decreased further
09.00 yet decreased
09.56 barely shining, you can light something in 5 cm
10.12 smoldering, no useful light, light 6-7 mm
10.22 disconnected at all


The operating time from CR123 coincides with the claimed
(considering that the battery is 2 years overdue).
Time to work with Robiton did not surprise me,
the ratio of working time is exactly corresponds to the ratio of the stored energy.
Time to work with Tenergy surprised me,
too quickly the batteries died. In the theory of the energy reserve
in Tenergy 400 mAh is 3,7 times less than in the primary cell, but the work time
was not 3.7 times less, but 5.5 and 8 times less. 

Then, as for Tenergy, I will recheck, maybe I was wrong somewhere
and they were not fully charged.


----------



## knucklegary

^^ When Hot meets Cold = CRACK!!


----------



## desert.snake

knucklegary said:


> ^^ When Hot meets Cold = CRACK!!



Yeah, but he was not hot. It was room temperature about 18 degrees.
Alcohol, evaporating, made the surface very cold, which in principle is the same 

Maybe it will be important, it's medical alcohol 95%


----------



## desert.snake

Update information. It's not about the temperature.

This Rehbinder effect - h

https://slideheaven.com/rehbinder-effect-in-tectonophysics.html here is more clear

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S2070205113050109


Alcohol in this case was an active substance for the material of this lens.
The lens already had a lot of internal stresses due to the fact that it is cast and the fact that
it is constantly subjected to heating and cooling. The active liquid simply weakened the bonds between
the lens molecules and cracks appeared.


----------



## nmiller

Had a little glitch tonight. I was messing around with my Bravo w/ M61N drop in. The light wouldn't turn on when the switch was on high. I was running a 16650 cell. Tested it and all was good. Threw it in a Surefire with the same M61N and all was good. Wiped some of the grease off the tail and tail end of the body. The Bravo seems to be working as it's supposed to again. I've never seen a Malkoff do that before, granted the Bravo was somewhat heavily greased. It seems like the grease was the problem. Should I be worried about the light failing on me? I just find it hard to believe grease would stop the switch from working right.


----------



## desert.snake

nmiller said:


> Had a little glitch tonight. I was messing around with my Bravo w/ M61N drop in. The light wouldn't turn on when the switch was on high. I was running a 16650 cell. Tested it and all was good. Threw it in a Surefire with the same M61N and all was good. Wiped some of the grease off the tail and tail end of the body. The Bravo seems to be working as it's supposed to again. I've never seen a Malkoff do that before, granted the Bravo was somewhat heavily greased. It seems like the grease was the problem. Should I be worried about the light failing on me? I just find it hard to believe grease would stop the switch from working right.



Perhaps the point is the sensitivity of the movable pin, through which the current flows
in a weak mode. That is, a lot of thick grease just pushed the pin a little upward
and the contact was interrupted. Either the spring pushing the pin down is weak.

Similar was during the Second World War on machine guns on aircraft,
when there was too much lubricant, then it hardened in the cold
and the machine gun jammed during the fight.

Will not it be easy for you to press something, such as a wooden stick,
onto the movable pin in the Elzetta cap and on the Malkoff resistor ring?
I'm wondering if there is a difference in the force of pressing 

Still wondering what kind of lubricant do you use? Once I bought used Surefire 6P,
its grease, when I opened it, looked like dry clay, it dried and decomposed into powder.


----------



## nmiller

I've never tried to mess with the movable pin. I don't know that I'd feel the difference with something so small. Typically it's not something I would mess with. I don't want to break it!

Grease is from the factory. I don't know what Elzetta uses. It was not hard at all. There was just a lot of it.


----------



## Modernflame

nmiller said:


> Had a little glitch tonight. I was messing around with my Bravo w/ M61N drop in. The light wouldn't turn on when the switch was on high. I was running a 16650 cell. Tested it and all was good. Threw it in a Surefire with the same M61N and all was good. Wiped some of the grease off the tail and tail end of the body. The Bravo seems to be working as it's supposed to again. I've never seen a Malkoff do that before, granted the Bravo was somewhat heavily greased. It seems like the grease was the problem. Should I be worried about the light failing on me? I just find it hard to believe grease would stop the switch from working right.



When you say that the light wouldn't activate on high mode, do you mean that you get low beam when the tail cap is fully tightened? Or do you mean you get nothing at all? Also, how long have you had the Elzetta host?

It's definitely a contact issue at the tail cap, not the module. Elzetta uses Molykote 55 for thread/O-ring lubricant, which shouldn't interfere with the circuit.


----------



## nmiller

When tightened in high mode I'd get nothing. Loosen to low and low worked fine. The host was bought new and is only a month or two old. I figure it sat on a shelf for a while. 

I checked the movable pin in a Malkoff and the Elzetta. They feel the same. I imagine Elzetta adopted the methodology from Gene.

Update:. Stuck with low mode only again if I get anything at all. This is very dissappointing. The movable pin is not stuck and it moves freely.


----------



## Modernflame

nmiller said:


> When tightened in high mode I'd get nothing. Loosen to low and low worked fine. The host was bought new and is only a month or two old. I figure it sat on a shelf for a while.
> 
> I checked the movable pin in a Malkoff and the Elzetta. They feel the same. I imagine Elzetta adopted the methodology from Gene.
> 
> Update:. Stuck with low mode only again if I get anything at all. This is very dissappointing. The movable pin is not stuck and it moves freely.



Elzetta should cover that tail cap under warranty. In the interim, you can Lego a malkoff tail cap or tricap. You won't get low beam but you can at least use high while they make the exchange.


----------



## nmiller

I'm going to return the light for a refund. I am currently dealing with a flickering Alpha as well. That one will go back to Elzetta for repair. The Alpha is my EDC. I have two of the 415 lumen versions. To me it is the perfect edc. Right now I'm frustrated. I've never had a light actually not work as advertised. Never been tough on my equipment, but for work I need light when I need light and from a brand like Elzetta I expect things to work right. I know it's not fair to judge this quickly and I plan to stick with the Alpha as my EDC, I just don't like what I've experienced in the past 48 hours. I've carried my second Alpha for over a year with no issues. It's been through training exercises and live enforcement actions with no issues. I'll just stick to my plan and carry a 6P with a drop in or a Hounddog as needed. The ironic part, the bravo host was bought to be the bulletproof emergency light for around the house.


----------



## DayofReckoning

Do any of you guys have experience running the Elzetta two stage tailcap on a 6P? I've been digging around looking for info, and it seems that although it functions fine, there is a issue where it will not thread down past the o-ring. Is that the case?

And is there any difference between the 2 different tailcap models Elzetta offers, as far as threading onto the 6P?


----------



## desert.snake

I never thought about it, but before me lie is Elzetta and 6P, now I'll try for you.

It really works!

The cap does not go any further because of the mismatch of thread lengths.
The entire length of the inside of the Alpha cap is ~ 12 mm,
At 6P 12 mm this is just the length from the tip of the thread to the annular gasket.


----------



## DayofReckoning

Desertsnake, thank you. If I'm reading your diagraham correctly, if one were to put the oring on the first slot, rather than the second slot, wouldn't the tailcap then thread down over the oring for a tight seal?


----------



## MikeSalt

I was seriously considering an Elzetta as a faeces hits the fan light, but having seen this thread, I reckon a Malkoff M61 MD2 will fulfil that role instead. What a shame that an otherwise very promising light is let down by a bit of plastic at the front.


----------



## desert.snake

Yes, that's for sure, I did not notice!


At full twisting I see about 1/5 of a part of a white metal of a border which divides 2 grooves for linings.


Another remark - for any fluctuation the light flashes, here the length of the springs
for the qualitative clamping of the battery slightly insufficient.
But I'm using a bodied 18650 body and I have a M60F module,
this makes a slight difference in the length of the springs compared to the original 6P,
and 18650 with flat top. It is possible to use a protected battery or small neodymium magnets
to increase the length of the battery that will correct clamping force.


----------



## Slumber

I've purchased new old stock Elzettas that require a little buffing of the battery tube on the tail. The grease Elzetta uses either hardens or the aluminum oxidizes. Some metal polish fixed the problem for me.


----------



## Modernflame

MikeSalt said:


> I was seriously considering an Elzetta as a faeces hits the fan light, but having seen this thread, I reckon a Malkoff M61 MD2 will fulfil that role instead. What a shame that an otherwise very promising light is let down by a bit of plastic at the front.



Either brand will work well for rotary fecal distribution. The problem he's experienced will be unique to the high/low tail cap, and a very rare disorder at that. I personally prefer Malkoff for a number of reasons, but I still think that Elzetta is tough enough.


----------



## nmiller

No doubt Elzettas are tough enough. Frankly, I'm being unfair. I know it. If the light was something I really needed I'd get it fixed and move on. That is why I'm Going to get the Alpha fixed. I don't think I could live without one and will probably get another if the price is right or a new model comes out. Overall the Alpha in my pocket and a hound dog on my belt is a better option for me. The Alpha covers 99% of my needs. There isn't a light out there that I'm aware of that will cause me to leave it behind.


----------



## Modernflame

nmiller said:


> The Alpha covers 99% of my needs. There isn't a light out there that I'm aware of that will cause me to leave it behind.



I'm receiving what you're sending, but this is CPF. Never say never!


----------



## nmiller

Modernflame said:


> I'm receiving what you're sending, but this is CPF. Never say never!



In true CPF spirit, if you show me the light I'd be happy to try it!


----------



## desert.snake

I'm spoiled SF E-series, 5 lumens on E1L look much brighter than 7 lumens on Alpha :sigh:


The last few days I decided to wear only Alpha, and it seems, I gradually began to get used to the weak light,
but still the throw is not enough (just for my use, for most people of this is quite enough).
I think I should try a new version of 415 lumen.


Someone has a version of 315 and 415 lumens at the same time
and will be able to tell how far throwing is from the modern version?


----------



## nmiller

The 415 throws a lot further. It's more versatile. The 315 is too much of a niche light, in my opinion.


----------



## the0dore3524

My Alpha suffers the same fate with the flicker. To their credit, Elzetta has offered to have me send it, but I just can’t be bothered. The low is supposed to be 15 lumens, but as someone else has commented, the 5 lumen low on my SF blows the Elzetta low out of the water. 

I’ve had both the 315 and 415 lumen versions. Both are quite floody (CQB applications mainly) and don’t throw all that far.


----------



## Low_Speed

nmiller said:


> The 415 throws a lot further. It's more versatile. The 315 is too much of a niche light, in my opinion.



They are all niche lights. These lights are built for a specific function and purpose. Great things about these lights. They are Legos.


----------



## vadimax

Modernflame said:


> Either brand will work well for rotary fecal distribution.



Nice typo


----------



## ank

wow so many issues with these expensive lights, and people are still bashing chinese manufacturers...


----------



## MikeSalt

Modernflame said:


> Either brand will work well for rotary fecal distribution. The problem he's experienced will be unique to the high/low tail cap, and a very rare disorder at that. I personally prefer Malkoff for a number of reasons, but I still think that Elzetta is tough enough.



My apologies, it is the acrylic optics up front that are actually causing me concern, in particular the reports of water ingress evidence. Yes, I know these lights are potted and treated internally such that they can survive being disassembled underwater, but I would prefer that lithium cells were not being subject to any excess moisture. I would hope that acrylic has been chosen over polycarbonate for reasons other than cost. On the plus side, it is easily replaced.


----------



## desert.snake

As far as I know, underwater was dismantled and collected by the one with the Malkoff module.
Well, something, I think someone should try to collect modern models under the water,
including salt water.

By the way, does anyone have at the same time Alpha 415 and new SF E1B-MV
to simultaneously compare? It would be cool to see their rays at the same time.
According to the characteristics, they are almost identical, as is the purpose


----------



## Modernflame

MikeSalt said:


> I would hope that acrylic has been chosen over polycarbonate for reasons other than cost. On the plus side, it is easily replaced.



I wonder if this issue is unique to the Alpha. Has anyone had a cracked optic in an AVS? The little Alpha lens is diminutive by comparison.


----------



## bykfixer

My first Alpha, a 315 came with the edges already cracked. It seems it was an over tighten the bezel issue. Elzetta offered to fix it but since it didn't affect the beam or water tightness I declined.

To me the weak link was the o'ring thickness. Before I felt any push back from it while tightening it was easy to overtighten it. 

When my 415 arrived I tossed the included o'ring in a parts box and used a thicker one. 

Corrective action or coincidence? I dunno, but the edges of the lens didn't crack.


----------



## Beard Man

ank said:


> *wow so many issues* with these expensive lights, and people are still bashing chinese manufacturers...



So many? Where?


----------



## peter yetman

Methinks he's being provocative.
P


----------



## Toehead

desert.snake said:


> By the way, does anyone have at the same time Alpha 415 and new SF E1B-MV to simultaneously compare? It would be cool to see their rays at the same time.
> According to the characteristics, they are almost identical, as is the purpose



I'd like to see that too. How floody is the SF E1B-MV compared to the Alpha. That is the main reason I want an Alpha.


----------



## vadimax

Sorry if that question has already been answered somewhere, but is 415 Alpha safe with 16340 cells?


----------



## the0dore3524

vadimax said:


> Sorry if that question has already been answered somewhere, but is 415 Alpha safe with 16340 cells?



Yeah I’ve run them just fine. Brightness on low/high will be slightly different because of the voltage.


----------



## desert.snake

Finally, it's done. Now I partially understand some of the manufacturers here who have business with unreliable contractors. I drew one, but I got quite another.. This applies only to 1 moment at the position of the internal thread of the extension. The thread is made higher than necessary, so the extension tube is not fully wrapped around the tail of the flashlight. As you can see in the photo, the external thread coincides with the thread of the flashlight. I left one groove so that I could fasten the speed ring clip to the button, as intended. It can also be seen that the battery due to the misalignment of the thread is lower in the compartment than the original cr123, but it all works.

I think that this extension tube needs to be remade, and then make it anodized or (maybe better) made of stainless steel. In the current state, this is simply a failed layout. Nevertheless I got a longer working time from 16650.

On the first picture shows a red vertical line. According to the correct drawing, the extension pipe should reach this place. It is also evident that in the current state the length of the alpha is greater than the SF G2. When the flaws are corrected, the length should be ~ the same.


----------



## INFRNL

nmiller said:


> No doubt Elzettas are tough enough. Frankly, I'm being unfair. I know it. If the light was something I really needed I'd get it fixed and move on. That is why I'm Going to get the Alpha fixed. I don't think I could live without one and *will probably get another if the price is right *or a new model comes out. Overall the Alpha in my pocket and a hound dog on my belt is a better option for me. The Alpha covers 99% of my needs. There isn't a light out there that I'm aware of that will cause me to leave it behind.


I think once or twice a yr Elzetta sends out a 20%off code. I know they do July 4th. that would have been an opportune time to get another alpha at a good price. I almost bought the 415 as i only own a 315, but decided not to as i have other lights that fit my needs.


----------



## bykfixer

To me the 415 Alpha was a good change for a general backup. The area the new version lights was a vast improvement in the event a primary light quits. 

The 315 version was made to light up a close area like many flooders do. Yet in its day it was one of the most potent 'little' lights available. It was ahead of the curve so it was largely misunderstood. 

To me the Alpha 415 and the Bones are a great combination. 

I bought the 315 in a hi/lo configuration. Mine flickers. Elzetta offered to fix it but I opted not to send it in as it is really not a big deal to me. I also found that when it begins to flicker a slight rotation one way or the other stops it. 

I retired my 315 and placed it in my "great ideas" light collection with other forward thinking at the time (but often misunderstood) LED lights like early Inovas, Pentagons and Streamlights.


----------



## nmiller

I'm currently struggling with the Alpha and what to do with it. I blame INFRNL and Etc. I have been using the Alpha more and more at work and it's less than stellar run time is getting to me. To maintain it's effectiveness I really need full brightness for a longer period of time. At about 20 minutes of use things start to go down hill. So, I bought an M61T for EDC and now the Alpha is my backup or closeup light. I also have an M91T if I need more light in a smallish package. I'm truly starting to enjoy the efficiency and versatility of the Malkoffs in general. I should have kept the 2 cell low profile bezel bravo. It would have been a great backup light with an M61LL 219 or N. Nice long run time and bright enough. Leave two primaries in it and forget about it. Live and learn I guess....

If the Alpha wasn't getting more extensive use and I didn't see INFRNL run time graphs I would never have known of the poor efficiency of the Alpha 415.

I did pick up a second Alpha on the exchange.


----------



## Modernflame

INFRNL's run time graphs reveal that the 1CR123 format generally yields poor run time when used at "full" power. The Malkoff MDCs and M31s do the same thing. I'm not sure what you do for a living but if you just need a general use flashlight in the 1CR123 form factor you might consider something with a good working medium mode. One thing I appreciate about HDS, for example, is the ability to back off the maximum setting just a little. The small difference in output extends run time massively. Alternatively, the Malkoff "L" options are also a winner. Of course, none of this matters if you genuinely need a tactical light at work.


----------



## bykfixer

When I discovered the PK Design Lab PR-1 my Alpha was retired.

Now for clarity I am a PKDL dealer. But folks here can attest I don't typically push the products here at CPF. In June of 2016 I bought my first PR-1 from Bulls Eye Worldwide. In November of that year I became a PKDL dealer. 

The light can run on a primary or rechargeable. I liked the form and portable size. Think 4Sevens Knight or Paladen with a max grip feature.

But besides the portable (read pocket sized) platform, the medium setting was what sold me. Max output is good for about an hour on a primary and pushes out a nice conical beam that "wow's" my friends. But the medium is the charm. The numbers suggest it dims greatly going from 360 to 200 lumens. However in real world use that 200 appears nearly as bright. And the runtime goes from a stated 1 hour to a stated 8 hours. 

I cannot say it runs the rated 8 hours in certainty because I use mine at brief intervals. But I can say that after 2 years of use my need for battery swap is nowhere near what it was for my Alpha. The low is around 20 very useable lumens for a super-duper amount of runtime. 

I only mention this because the PR-1 is a unique alternative for police use and is priced for a cop's salary. 
Additional clarity is they are made in China and the beam is 6200 kelvin. 

The Alpha 415 is a lot more close to a neutral beam so in cases of self blinding in close quarters the Alpha beam is a lot less.... "holy crap" to the users night adapted eyes.


----------



## nmiller

I just have to stop over analyzing. The form and tint of the Alpha are ideal for me.


----------



## INFRNL

How did I get drug into this....Blame ETC; he is the one that analyzes all options to find the best option for his needs...then posts his opinion. I just do the tests I am requested(not entirely tru as i'm trying to get all variations tested). However the Alpha 315 was the only single 123 light I had when doing the CR123a showdown testing. 

Let me play around a bit, maybe i can mess with your mind...surely ETC can help me in the process....HAHAHAHA
People are always trying different alternatives to what is normal...Kind of like the request i got to run a HD 18650 from 2 eneloop pros. Probably wouldn't fit your needs but there are other options..like a wildcat in a smaller form, possibly an M91W, but that probably won't fit your tint criteria. Also don't forget about a modified H/L ring to help. 

There are many options available. I know what I would use but it is neither Malkoff nor Elzetta.

I think the Alpha is a great little light and does a great job at what is was designed for. I agree the runtime isn't great though and that could be improved. The biggest downfall of an Elzetta for me is that it cannot tailstand. 
I also agree that you shouldn't have given up on the bravo, although if you have an MD2; there is no loss unless you liked the AVS head.

I'm not sure what the tint is like on the alpha 415, is it warmer than the 315? 

Maybe an MDC or one of the M31/M61 modules would fit your needs and provide better runtime. I still wish the Alpha was designed to be able to use m31/M61 modules. That will never happen though.


----------



## nmiller

First I have to ask. What are you using if not an Elzetta or Malkoff.

Alpha 415 tint is yellowish vs the 315 being slightly rosy. At least that's what I recall. I haven't had a 315 in a while. 

A VME with 16650 MDC might work out. For now I'm going to stick to the Alpha and explore the options available to me. A slightly longer 2 cell Alpha would be nice.


----------



## INFRNL

wouldn't a slightly longer 2 cell Alpha be a Bravo with flood lens?

I thought I have told you what other lights I use. I will send you a message as I do not think it's quite appropriate to get too far off track here.

being the 415 is more towards yellow, that means that you like Neutral rather than cool white; this is good to know. 

The bad thing about VME is that you are limited to a single mode light. I got the impression that you would want at least 2 modes. 

the alpha has been serving you well with the exception of efficiency. Definitely do your homework before making any rash decisions. I will send you a message after a bit.


----------



## marco.weiss

vme + m361 + mdc 16650 = 3 mode flashlight


----------



## Toehead

Finally about to join the crowd. I have an Alpha inbound, expected tomorrow. One thing I'd like to possibly add is clip and since I really love the 2-way clip the Surefire Backup MV that I just sold has I'd like to get something similar. I found the Olight M2R clip is only $6 but 0.96". It looks like the design might have some flexibility. Wanted to get some feedback and possibly find out if there are any other similar style clips I should look at.


----------



## JPA261

Toehead said:


> Finally about to join the crowd. I have an Alpha inbound, expected tomorrow. One thing I'd like to possibly add is clip and since I really love the 2-way clip the Surefire Backup MV that I just sold has I'd like to get something similar. I found the Olight M2R clip is only $6 but 0.96". It looks like the design might have some flexibility. Wanted to get some feedback and possibly find out if there are any other similar style clips I should look at.



Very nice! Let us know what you think. As far as clips, I’m not sure what others you can use. I’m sure any light clip with a 1” body would work for it. As far as me, I use either the thyrm switchback 2.0 or the Elzetta speed clip.


----------



## hatman

My favorite clip for the Alpha (315 and 415), HDS Clicky and Surefire Fury is the Darksucks Titanium Clip.
I have other lights that I prefer (sorry Elzetta, HDS and Surefire.) I keep these in no small part because of the great clip.


----------



## Rob Babcock

INFRNL said:


> wouldn't a slightly longer 2 cell Alpha be a Bravo with flood lens?



I know this isn't addressed to me but I will chime in, having in the past wished for exactly that light (an Alpha2​ as I would call it). It would be lower output than the AVS head used for the Bravo and Charlie lights but also considerably slimmer. While I love the AVS and find it to be a great product I would undoubtedly buy at least one Alpha2​ for EDC use!:thumbsup:

Personally I love my Alpha. I wish there were better clip options but it's an ideal light for me for camping and hiking. The 415 version would probably be nice but my old 315 gets the job done. The LOW setting is terrific for general camp use without blowing out my night adapted vision while still offering some good illumination on high. Mine has 'the Flicker' but it's not annoying enough to bother returning.


----------



## vadimax

If anyone cares: https://www.elzetta.com/product/limitededition/ — *Limited Edition Battleworn White Alpha Modular Flashlight.*


----------



## Jose Marin

To those that have changed leds in the avs head, i just swapped a sst 40 de domed in mine with crappy results. I actually lost a little bit of throw which i was hopping id gain and the beam looks pretty much the same which i was hoping to get all spot with little to no corona. Any suggestions?


----------



## Modernflame

vadimax said:


> If anyone cares: https://www.elzetta.com/product/limitededition/ — *Limited Edition Battleworn White Alpha Modular Flashlight.*



The flashlight equivalent of buying faded jeans with holes in the knees?


----------



## bykfixer

Tailcap choice in this years LE.... cool. 

I kinda like that battle worn coating over an HA type 3. The more worn it gets, the better.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

bykfixer said:


> Tailcap choice in this years LE.... cool.



The Multicam one last year had a tailcap choice as well... I like the high/low. My yellow one is full blast all the time!


----------



## desert.snake

Interestingly, someone run Charlie with 2 eneloop or other 2*AA?


----------



## Modernflame

The Elzetta Charlie will run at reduced output for at least two hours on alkaline AA cells. Never tried eneloops. The results would surely be better on lithium primary AA's.


----------



## desert.snake

Modernflame said:


> The Elzetta Charlie will run at reduced output for at least two hours on alkaline AA cells. Never tried eneloops. The results would surely be better on lithium primary AA's.



Thank you, this is cool  in some places, where I am spend time, there is only AA


----------



## nmiller

Does anyone know the max voltage you can run in a Bones or AVS head? Thanks!


----------



## vadimax

nmiller said:


> Does anyone know the max voltage you can run in a Bones or AVS head? Thanks!



I guess that 10V is safe with an AVS head as it accepts 3 Lithium generics in Charlie configuration. Each of those may be up to 3.3V fresh.


----------



## nmiller

Bones and AVS are the same? I’m thinking they are but don’t know for sure.


----------



## nmiller

Two cell Alpha??? It works with a 16650 cell. High only. Solarforce extension and Surefire switch. I’m tempted to try the Oveready extension.


----------



## peter yetman

The Oveready ones are back in stock.
P


----------



## nmiller

Saw that. If they work with the Elzetta hi/lo switch it be worth every penny.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I'd love to hear it if anyone tries it!


----------



## nmiller

I plan to as soon as possible. I'll be sure to post the result.


----------



## Random Dan

I don't think Elzetta tailcaps will work on any other bodies or extenders. Elzetta used the same thread size as SF C-series but made the length different. My Elzetta high/low tailcap won't cover the o-rings on 6P or MD2 body so I think it would be same for extenders, since their threads are usually exactly like 6P.


----------



## nmiller

I think you are right. I want the extenders for other lights anyways. I will cross my fingers.


----------



## nmiller

No luck on the extensions. Threads aren't compatible.


----------



## peter yetman

Bum, that's a shame.
Hopefully they'll fit on one of your Malkoffs.
P


----------



## nmiller

They will, but debating on letting them go. I'm pretty happy with my current set up and am not sure they will get much use. Need to think these things over first......


----------



## neutralwhite

has anyone ever modded a Elzetta Bones?


----------



## vadimax

neutralwhite said:


> has anyone ever modded a Elzetta Bones?



Stupid question: what for having in mind that you destroy life time guarantee this way?


----------



## bykfixer

The Bones is proprietary neutralwhite, so doing any modifications would require the skills of an expert. I suppose it can be done though....


----------



## Modernflame

There's a description of a modification to an AVS head here. I hope this helps. 

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho...zetta-The-industry-s-best-kept-secret/page108


----------



## ven

Anything is possible, just take more time and skill. I like a modded light for sure, had many modded over the years. I will admit the bones has never been on that want list for modding. Out of the box its a great beam, optic options to suit either throw or flood. Single mode is just so simple stupid perfect for many applications for me. I am a huge fan of the h17f driver as per AVS mod. I would program it to single mode on one of the groups as i have done with my 3 or 4 h17f's .

I would consider a p60 host , z2, c2 and get a p60 or p60's to suit. Easy to swap out when one wants warmer or cooler, floody or throwy beams. The bones as a host may have a few benefits with heat sink due to design, but not in any huge way. If high output(1000+ lm) is required for long duration's, then a multi cell would make more sense anyway imo. 

The bones is a good package for what it is, but for what it costs, then the cost of modding, it would not be my 1st choice for a host. To me , its like buying an OR triple, gutting it and making it into a quad. Better left as it is..............


----------



## the0dore3524

Agreed Ven. The Bones has a very specific purpose and it’s all in its name. If you want programmability, best to pick up one of the older style Elzetta for P60 compatability.


----------



## Tachead

I agree with the above posts, there are better options for a host.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

The only changes I'd want with my Elzetta Charlie,which has the AVS head...

would be a neutral white LED option,and a third(medium) level between the 900-lumen high mode and the 30-lumen low.


----------



## tech25

Did anyone see the limited edition of the Bravo? It has a new optic and is very tempting.


----------



## Johnnyh

tech25 said:


> Did anyone see the limited edition of the Bravo? It has a new optic and is very tempting.



Saw it...cerakoted...new optic...looks great...can’t afford it now![emoji22] Wishing I could.


----------



## Modernflame

Wait. What? Can someone post a link? I don't see this on the website.

Edit: Never mind. I found it.


----------



## thermal guy

Help! Can't fine it.


----------



## Modernflame

thermal guy said:


> Help! Can't fine it.



I gotcha, bro.

https://www.elzetta.com/product/limitededition/


----------



## thermal guy

Thank you sir.


----------



## Grizzman

I'm interested in the optic, but not really the light itself. I've often wished for an option between the spot and flood optics.


----------



## ven

Why on earth would someone want to pay for a worn finish, just crazy flashaholics the lot of ya............



Love it


----------



## thermal guy

Because we don’t have the hart to use our lights hard enough to look like that 😂😂


----------



## ven

Haha, probably true if spending a small fortune. Always good to have beaters to beat on, rare or expensive for more careful use. Saying that I do take care of my tools, just less of an issue if I drop a cheaper one from 20ft lol


----------



## Stormbringer

I couldn't resist! My Alpha needed a big brother


----------



## Modernflame

Stormbringer said:


> I couldn't resist! My Alpha needed a big brother



Which tail cap did you choose? I'll be interested in your feedback on this new optic.


----------



## Stormbringer

Modernflame said:


> Which tail cap did you choose? I'll be interested in your feedback on this new optic.



Hi - Low tailcap. I'm very curious as to this new optic as well.


----------



## neutralwhite

Ordered.


----------



## AR_Shorty

Ordered as well. I only missed out on a few of the earlier limited edition lights, but hopefully some day I'll find them to complete my collection.


----------



## Low_Speed

Looks interesting. Just wish they’d come out with a higher lumen light in the Bravo size. Not found of the length of the Charlie. Love their lights overall though.


----------



## knucklegary

Hope someone shows a photo of business end, I'm interested in seeing the new optics.. Elzetta site is keeping it under wraps:shrug:


----------



## Rob Babcock

Man, I wish I could get just the optic!


----------



## fordcappy

Just got the special edition in. New optics is on there right, current optic is on left. Up close the feel and look id as if a fine sandpaper was gone over the front of the optic. The beam pattern is much more appealing, the hot spot that comes with the optic (I own 8 elzettas) is all but gone, its a very smooth pattern.


----------



## Modernflame

fordcappy said:


> Just got the special edition in.



Those are very helpful photos. It's a semi-frosted optic, then? Could we trouble you for a couple of beam shots this evening?


----------



## Stormbringer

fordcappy said:


> Just got the special edition in. New optics is on there right, current optic is on left. Up close the feel and look id as if a fine sandpaper was gone over the front of the optic. The beam pattern is much more appealing, the hot spot that comes with the optic (I own 8 elzettas) is all but gone, its a very smooth pattern.



Just received the Milsurp Bravo and I completely agree the beam pattern is incredibly smooth and very appealing.


----------



## tech25

He does it compare to the flood lens?


----------



## Modernflame

How cool would it be if Elzetta continued to offer this optic after the end of this sprint run? All they would need is a narrower throw lens and the line up would be complete. You could choose from wide flood (today's flood lens), narrow flood (special edition Bravo), wide throw (today's standard), and narrow throw depending on your objective. That's modularity at work!


----------



## thermal guy

I recently got my first elzetta. A bravo with a frosted m60 and hi/lo cap and I have to say I love it! This thing is small for a Malkoff host and I’m pretty sure it’s the toughest light I own.and the profile of the body is just ideal. There’s no way your going to drop this if your hands are wet. Just a great little light.like it so much I’m on the hunt for more of them. Got to have a spare right?


----------



## Johnnyh

thermal guy said:


> I recently got my first elzetta. A bravo with a frosted m60 and hi/lo cap and I have to say I love it! This thing is small for a Malkoff host and I’m pretty sure it’s the toughest light I own.and the profile of the body is just ideal. There’s no way your going to drop this if your hands are wet. Just a great little light.like it so much I’m on the hunt for more of them. Got to have a spare right?



Look out Thermal! Not speaking from personal experience mind you 🤥...But here’s what could happen...To back-up your Bravo, you’re gonna need an Alpha. Then, for greater muscle, you’ll need a Charlie with AVS head...also, the Malkoff M61N goes real nice in that standard Bravo...just need a lens kit...optics are easy to swap on the AVS, might want flood and standard...special editions come out once in while...


----------



## thermal guy

Oh I’m sure I’ll get more. right now my m361w is in my bravo and absolutely love it.


----------



## Modernflame

thermal guy said:


> Oh I’m sure I’ll get more. right now my m361w is in my bravo and absolutely love it.



:thumbsup:


----------



## bykfixer

Now that is awesome TG. Good use for that swell module.

The Alpha 415 was quite improved over the 315 lumen version. Better throw with a nice neutral beam. 

My most used Elzetta is the Bones. I use it to light up manholes and such in the daytime. 

If you use wrist lanyards the Elzetta lanyard ring is very unobtrusive.


----------



## thermal guy

Are the new generation as tough as the old ones? Been looking for old school ones to put Malkoff’s in. But might take a peak at there new stuff as well


----------



## bykfixer

To my knowledge they come with proprietary LED modules now. Perhaps others can clear up the matter, but I don't think the Malkoff stuff fits.

I know the Alpha and Bones are proprietary.


----------



## Johnnyh

Elzetta still sells the older-style bezels...crenelated or standard. Not positive but I think you could get a Bravo body, tail-cap of choice, and a standard or crenelated bezel and it would accept a Malkoff drop-in...but don’t quote me!


----------



## thermal guy

I did not know that! That’s great I’ll have to save up and get some. I’d love to use another for a Malkoff host. Thanks. Does the new bravo body take 18650? I see the bones does


----------



## Johnnyh

thermal guy said:


> I did not know that! That’s great I’ll have to save up and get some. I’d love to use another for a Malkoff host. Thanks. Does the new bravo body take 18650? I see the bones does



Unfortunately not, Oveready used to sell bored Bravo bodies that accept 18650 but not sure now. Good news is a 16650 works great. I use protected 2500 mah Keepower.


----------



## Modernflame

Johnnyh said:


> Elzetta still sells the older-style bezels...crenelated or standard. Not positive but I think you could get a Bravo body, tail-cap of choice, and a standard or crenelated bezel and it would accept a Malkoff drop-in...but don’t quote me!



Certainly appears to be the case. It's a shame, though, that the low profile bezel has been discontinued. I never had the opportunity to get one. 

In any case, the aperture will be 16.5mm. One advantage of the Malkoff MDX system is the 22.3mm option. Just something to consider.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

Johnnyh said:


> Elzetta still sells the older-style bezels...crenelated or standard. Not positive but I think you could get a Bravo body, tail-cap of choice, and a standard or crenelated bezel and it would accept a Malkoff drop-in...but don’t quote me!



One of my favorite lights is a three cell Elzetta with a low profile head, a high/low tail, and a Malkoff M91. Malkoff dropins will fit perfectly, but the host doesn't come with a lens, so you have to order the lens kit separately from Malkoff (they are not very expensive). I'm pretty sure I get more spill with my Elzetta than I do with an MD host.


----------



## FSUwelder1212

Maybe some of you knowledgeable gents could help me out. I would like to lego together my first light. I would like to use an elzetta host in the 3xcr123a flavor. The reason I want to lego it is because I would like 3 modes (LMH). Could anyone recommend a drop in set up that will work with the host that supports 9v and has 3 modes? Thanks!


----------



## thermal guy

FSUwelder1212 said:


> Maybe some of you knowledgeable gents could help me out. I would like to lego together my first light. I would like to use an elzetta host in the 3xcr123a flavor. The reason I want to lego it is because I would like 3 modes (LMH). Could anyone recommend a drop in set up that will work with the host that supports 9v and has 3 modes? Thanks!


 

Elzetta hosts will only take Malkoff drop ins.malkoff doesn’t make a 9vt 3 levels module. The m361 only goes to 6vt.he makes some nice 9 vts that if you have the hi/lo tail cap that will give you 2 modes. Or you could use the m361 in your 3 cell and use a dummy spacer.


----------



## thermal guy

fresh eddie fresh said:


> One of my favorite lights is a three cell Elzetta with a low profile head, a high/low tail, and a Malkoff M91. Malkoff dropins will fit perfectly, but the host doesn't come with a lens, so you have to order the lens kit separately from Malkoff (they are not very expensive). I'm pretty sure I get more spill with my Elzetta than I do with an MD host.



I have a M91 in my MD4 and absolutely love it. It’s a bright wall of light that’s great for outdoors and searching for stuff in the woods.


----------



## JPA261

So I started carrying my Alpha again and noticed that my 415 lumen version was flickering. I know there were some comments about the flickering issues with the Alpha series. 

Do you know if they fixed these issues now if I send it in or are there still reports of them flickering?


----------



## nmiller

Email them. They fixed one for me not that long ago. They will ask you to try a couple things at home like cleaning the threads etc. Takes about 5 minutes. I think shipping one way was on me. They paid return shipping and gave me a couple batteries to cover the shipping expense. They were easy to work with. Turnaround was quick. A week or two tops.


----------



## Modernflame

Aluminum oxide on the threads?


----------



## thermal guy

Yes what was the reason for loss of contact?


----------



## bykfixer

JPA261 said:


> So I started carrying my Alpha again and noticed that my 415 lumen version was flickering. I know there were some comments about the flickering issues with the Alpha series.
> 
> Do you know if they fixed these issues now if I send it in or are there still reports of them flickering?



Is it the ho/lo tailcap? Some said that one still flickers. I noticed mine (on a 315) flickered in a rythmic pattern that almost intentional looking. Like one of those flashing Christmas tree bulbs that heat the filament, which in turn causes it to bend and break contact until it rebends while cooling until it makes contact again...only the opposite if that makes sense. They offered to fix mine but I never sent it in. I just switched to a high only tac switch.


----------



## JPA261

Yeah it’s the hi/Lo tailcap. I thought my battery was going dead cause the light has been sitting in my safe for a while. I swapped them out and same issue. I cleaned the springs and threads but still an issue.

For those that sent theirs in for warranty repair, did that fix the issue or were you still having flickering issues?


----------



## nmiller

They fixed the issue. I'm pretty sure they gutted the head and replaced everything. Worked fine when I got it back.


----------



## Modernflame

My only experience with such a flicker is with Malkoffs. Different animal, but structurally similar. Once in a while, my Hound Dog will develop a flicker on low beam, especially while the head is being rotated. (Malkoff has the high low ring in the head, not the tail cap.) This is due to the accumulation of aluminum oxide on the battery tube where it makes contact with the brass high low ring. All that's needed is a very small amount of sanding with a very fine grit sand paper. The brass will not need this treatment. I keep a package of 320 grit sand paper in my parts bin for this purpose.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

Modernflame said:


> My only experience with such a flicker is with Malkoffs. Different animal, but structurally similar. Once in a while, my Hound Dog will develop a flicker on low beam, especially while the head is being rotated. (Malkoff has the high low ring in the head, not the tail cap.) This is due to the accumulation of aluminum oxide on the battery tube where it makes contact with the brass high low ring. All that's needed is a very small amount of sanding with a very fine grit sand paper. The brass will not need this treatment. I keep a package of 320 grit sand paper in my parts bin for this purpose.





Good to know this thanks!


----------



## Slumber

I've used Never Dull polish on the end of the battery tube that contacts the High/Low pin to remove oxidation and reduce flicker.


----------



## thermal guy

So I’m thinking of having my 3 cell elzetta bored out so I have the option of running 2X18500 as I think I will end up putting a M91B in her and I’m getting over two hours at full power with this setup in my MD3.can anyone recommend where I might have this done? Also is it just honed out or do they turn it to remove material? And last whats everyone opinions on how bad this will effect the structural strength if this is done. Thanks


----------



## archimedes

I can't remember the exact context, but I think someone posted that boring the Elzetta can risk problems with the tailswitch ... ?


----------



## Random Dan

archimedes said:


> I can't remember the exact context, but I think someone posted that boring the Elzetta can risk problems with the tailswitch ... ?


I have an Elzetta Bravo AVS that was bored by Oveready (IIRC). It is bored out enough to fit unprotected 18650GA, but not enough to fit protected cells. The high/low switch works fine.


----------



## peter yetman

If I remember correctly, it was the Hi/Lo switch that some people had problems with. The pin in the switch wasn't able to contact the tube after the boring. But if Dan's works, why not. The improvement in capacity and current delivery of a 18350 over a 16340 is significant.
P


----------



## archimedes

Thanks ... sounds like it is not always a problem then.


----------



## neutralwhite

Well, - I had a Bored Elzetta from OR with the High Strobe Switch. If I can remember rightly, it wasn't going into strobe. 
OR had no idea, so said send it into Elzetta direct to see why not - seemed faulty, so I did, - Elzetta was more than happy to check it all out.
Elzetta came back to me stating that a bored ZFL M60 will NOT WORK at with high strobe tail at all. 
something to do with the PIN not touching something.
something like that. 

I got a full refund from OR. 
I am certain this is how it was.

hope this helps you out. 



Random Dan said:


> I have an Elzetta Bravo AVS that was bored by Oveready (IIRC). It is bored out enough to fit unprotected 18650GA, but not enough to fit protected cells. The high/low switch works fine.


----------



## thermal guy

You know I can’t bring myself to take “IMO” the toughest host there is and modify it if there is ANY doubt or downside to it. My M91B will still go in her but fed with good old primaries. Thanks guys.


----------



## thermal guy

Will 2X 17500 fit? That might be another option.


----------



## archimedes

Well I think if you are removing material, there will always be some risk of damage during machining and/or structural compromise afterward .... The question is whether or not the trade-off is "worth it"


----------



## archimedes

thermal guy said:


> Will 2X 17500 fit? That might be another option.


It seems that quality 17mm cells have gotten more difficult to find these days, but Illumn has the KeepPower in stock at the moment.


----------



## thermal guy

Yes that’s where I saw them. I think I’ll give them a shot and see how they work. That M91B is a thirsty animal. Be nice to be able to run some kind of rechargeable for walks and what nots and primary cells for when I want absolutely nothing to go wrong 


I think there 1200 mah so I’m guessing runtime will be much less then 3 primary cells?


----------



## Modernflame

Boring out the tube can certainly lead to structural weakness, but it depends on the amount of material removed. When OR was doing this, the end result was solid, but only the more slender cells would fit.

The 17500's are generally slim enough to fit in the unmodified tube, but the combined length of two cells may cause fitment issues. It takes some serious torque to tighten the tail cap. I was personally never comfortable with it. My advice? If you want to run your M91B on rechargeables, use a Malkoff host.


----------



## thermal guy

Got my hart set on running a 91 in her. Screw it. I’ll stick to primary cells.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

How close is the M91B to a V6 wildcat, in terms of spill and throw? They seem quite similar on paper. Is the 6200K really blue? I am thinking of trying one of the 6200K malkoffs but don't know if it will be too straining to my eyes.


----------



## neutralwhite

the 6200k Blue Malkoff is not so bad at all. didn't bother me hardly at all.


----------



## thermal guy

CREEXHP70LED said:


> How close is the M91B to a V6 wildcat, in terms of spill and throw? They seem quite similar on paper. Is the 6200K really blue? I am thinking of trying one of the 6200K malkoffs but don't know if it will be too straining to my eyes.



I asked that same question awhile back. The consensus For the most part was that the wildcat is brighter and does have more spill but not a huge difference. The 91 is putting out 1000 lumens now. I still might get one to see for myself but I have a feeling it’s not going to be a real big difference.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

Thanks neutralwhite and thermal guy. I think I will get a 4000K HD, then go for maybe a thrower in 6200K. That is the current plan then. I will never know if 6200K is too blue for me until I try it. So I guess I have to try it. lol.


----------



## peter yetman

I've got an MDC 6200K and while it's not at all restful on my eyes, it doesn't show a trace of anything but pure white light.
It lives in Mrs. Yeti's bag and serves her well.
P


----------



## InvisibleFrodo

I swear warmer CCTs like 4000K seem to me like they throw better because they seem to light up less of the moisture/pollution/dust/smoke/whatever in the air. They seem to pierce through to the intended target better.
Higher CCTs give that “lightsaber” look where I feel like I can see the entire beam going from flashlight to target. And all that glow can mask the view of whatever it is you’re trying to see.
My weird two cents.


----------



## scout24

Since this is the Elzetta thread, (Ahem...) I'll sing the praises of my Bravo hi/low on a 16650. Plenty bright for a cargo pocket 100 yard light with good runtime. Keepower button top cells mean no confusion for in the dark cell swaps, and the low lasts seemingly forever.


----------



## coffeecup66

CREEXHP70LED said:


> How close is the M91B to a V6 wildcat, in terms of spill and throw? They seem quite similar on paper. Is the 6200K really blue? I am thinking of trying one of the 6200K malkoffs but don't know if it will be too straining to my eyes.




-- >> Oh look ! I found this.


----------



## thermal guy

scout24 said:


> Since this is the Elzetta thread, (Ahem...) I'll sing the praises of my Bravo hi/low on a 16650. Plenty bright for a cargo pocket 100 yard light with good runtime. Keepower button top cells mean no confusion for in the dark cell swaps, and the low lasts seemingly forever.



+100 my friend I absolutely love mine. small for a Malkoff host and love the form factor of it.I finally settled on an old M60w in it for now at least.might end up putting an M61 back in it for the extra power and spill.


----------



## thermal guy

InvisibleFrodo said:


> I swear warmer CCTs like 4000K seem to me like they throw better because they seem to light up less of the moisture/pollution/dust/smoke/whatever in the air. They seem to pierce through to the intended target better.
> Higher CCTs give that “lightsaber” look where I feel like I can see the entire beam going from flashlight to target. And all that glow can mask the view of whatever it is you’re trying to see.
> My weird two cents.




You see I’m the opposite. To me warms don’t put the power down enough for me. The CW 6200 or so seems to throw much better. I use warms in the house only. Or like camping for around the tent.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

scout24 said:


> Since this is the Elzetta thread, (Ahem...) I'll sing the praises of my Bravo hi/low on a 16650. Plenty bright for a cargo pocket 100 yard light with good runtime. Keepower button top cells mean no confusion for in the dark cell swaps, and the low lasts seemingly forever.





I am actually getting a flood lens for my Charlie to see what it is like. I don't really seem to care for the beams hot spot in the middle of the standard lens. I am guessing I will get 50 yards of solid flood from it @ 900 lumens. I wish we could buy the limited edition lens. I might just take some fine sandpaper to my standard lens and see what it looks like.


----------



## thermal guy

Boy idk. 50 yards might be a little optimistic. Even with 900 lumens. What is the lux listed for it.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

Beam distance (I am pretty sure FL1 Standard) is 100 meters and candela is rated at 2480 for the Charlie, and for the Bravo it is rated at 76 meters and 1440 candela.


----------



## neutralwhite

I have an ArmyTek Modded Wizard Pro E21A Quad at 1200L, and yes, 50+ yards or so is around right - and a good flood light ahead. 



CREEXHP70LED said:


> I am actually getting a flood lens for my Charlie to see what it is like. I don't really seem to care for the beams hot spot in the middle of the standard lens. I am guessing I will get 50 yards of solid flood from it @ 900 lumens. I wish we could buy the limited edition lens. I might just take some fine sandpaper to my standard lens and see what it looks like.


----------



## thermal guy

CREEXHP70LED said:


> Beam distance (I am pretty sure FL1 Standard) is 100 meters and candela is rated at 2480 for the Charlie, and for the Bravo it is rated at 76 meters and 1440 candela.



Yes but this is for the regular head not the flood is it not?


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

thermal guy said:


> Yes but this is for the regular head not the flood is it not?





Those are the flood lens numbers mentioned above. For the standard lens in the Charlie it is 12,200 candela and 220 meters throw. The Bravo is rated at 9,050 candela and 190 meters throw, with the standard lens.


All these numbers are on Elzettas website, under additional information after you build a light.:thumbsup:


----------



## thermal guy

Yep your right. 👍


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

thermal guy said:


> Yep your right. 





Do you happen to have a flood lens and think these numbers are high still? I was just about to buy the flood lens but if it really isn't good for 40-50 yards then I might not want to get it. It is only $20 on the other hand.


----------



## peter yetman

Are you guys talking about the Flood lens on the AVS head or about a Flood M60? M60F?
Sorry, just curious.
P


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

peter yetman said:


> Are you guys talking about the Flood lens on the AVS head or about a Flood M60? M60F?
> Sorry, just curious.
> P





Were talking about the flood lens on the AVS head and a Charlie body (900) lumens.


----------



## peter yetman

Aha, thank you.
P


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

peter yetman said:


> Aha, thank you.
> P





Yes no problem:thumbsup:


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

I will find out, the flood lens is on it's way.


----------



## Grizzman

I run a flood lens in a Charlie, and it works really well. I've never measured lux from it at distance, but it'll easily work at 35 yards.

If the illuminated objective is at all reflective, then 50 yards is possible.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

Grizzman said:


> I run a flood lens in a Charlie, and it works really well. I've never measured lux from it at distance, but it'll easily work at 35 yards.
> 
> If the illuminated objective is at all reflective, then 50 yards is possible.






That sounds good enough for me. I want more situational awareness and that center hop spot is almost too strong in the standard lens for my liking.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

I tried out the flood lens tonight, and while it was not completely dark where I was, (I didn't hike into the woods next to trout creek.) It seemed okay. The Wildcat V6 out throws it some, and out floods it too. Elzetta needs to release the limited edition lens, before I buy a bunch of standards and make them myself for sale on the secondary. I will try fine blasting the front, fine sanding the front, and I will eventually get a longer reaching stronger beam with flood and no annoying hot spot the standard has IMHO. I don't mind ruining a dozen or so standard lenses in the process.


----------



## Johnnyh

CREEXHP70LED said:


> I tried out the flood lens tonight, and while it was not completely dark where I was, (I didn't hike into the woods next to trout creek.) It seemed okay. The Wildcat V6 out throws it some, and out floods it too. Elzetta needs to release the limited edition lens, before I buy a bunch of standards and make them myself for sale on the secondary. I will try fine blasting the front, fine sanding the front, and I will eventually get a longer reaching stronger beam with flood and no annoying hot spot the standard has IMHO. I don't mind ruining a dozen or so standard lenses in the process.



Maybe some dc-fix diffusion film? I use it on all my indoor, around-the-house lights and it does a good job of eliminating the hot spot without losing too much output. Might be worth a shot vs. the cost of all those lenses!


----------



## coffeecup66

http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/diffusion-list.html


----------



## Modernflame

CREEXHP70LED said:


> ... It seemed okay. The Wildcat V6 out throws it some, and out floods it too.



Elzetta is philosophically bent toward ultra-low candela. I believe the Charlie is rated at 2480 lux @ 900 lumens. The Wildcat v6 is rated at 7,000 lux @ 1600 lumens. Of course, these are two very different, purpose built devices. I mention these specs to explain your real world results, not to say that one is better than the other.


----------



## bykfixer

Elzetta are designed around Close Quarter Combat scenarios, not Search and Rescue. The idea is that the user who needs to see at a distance is usually outfitted with night vision gear to avoid being spotted by a foe from a distance. They build lights with the flash/bang scenario in mind.

Malkoff are built largely for police and rescue folks who may be searching for a missing person or trying to spot a downed wire after a storm or wreck. Or the home owner who needs to see if the dog is barking at a racoon or a fox in the chicken coop (which was how Gene got started.)


----------



## thermal guy

I use my Malkoff to check on whether or not we are out a chocolate ice cream in the fridge. The m60 flood on low setting works great for this application 😁


----------



## Modernflame

thermal guy said:


> I use my Malkoff to check on whether or not we are out a chocolate ice cream in the fridge. The m60 flood on low setting works great for this application 



You know you're in this deep when you have a dedicated chocolate ice cream checking flashlight. Nice.


----------



## thermal guy

😂😂😂 right you are!


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

Modernflame said:


> Elzetta is philosophically bent toward ultra-low candela. I believe the Charlie is rated at 2480 lux @ 900 lumens. The Wildcat v6 is rated at 7,000 lux @ 1600 lumens. Of course, these are two very different, purpose built devices. I mention these specs to explain your real world results, not to say that one is better than the other.




I don't do the candela to lux conversions but the candela is low 12,200 for the 900 lumen standard Charlie lens, and yes 2,480 candela for the flood lens. However, The Wildcat V6 Neutral I have is rated at 5,200 Lux and 1,100 lumens. I do prefer the flood lens more than the standard. It is still in the body and not going anywhere soon.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

bykfixer said:


> Elzetta are designed around Close Quarter Combat scenarios, not Search and Rescue. The idea is that the user who needs to see at a distance is usually outfitted with night vision gear to avoid being spotted by a foe from a distance. They build lights with the flash/bang scenario in mind.
> 
> Malkoff are built largely for police and rescue folks who may be searching for a missing person or trying to spot a downed wire after a storm or wreck. Or the home owner who needs to see if the dog is barking at a racoon or a fox in the chicken coop (which was how Gene got started.)




Yes, exactly. This is why I wanted a Charlie. I do need that kind of light sometimes.

For search and rescue I would carry a cheapish $140 4,450 lumen 1,150 meter thrower like a Thrunite TN40S, or something similar with a Malkoff as a back up.


----------



## thermal guy

Right now I have settled on running a M61 in my Charlie. I was on the fence as to whether to put my M91 in it but the reduced runtime with the 91 is huge. Your taking maybe 45 minutes on high as opposed to something like 2 hours for the M61.but like I say I’m still on the fence.i think what I need to do is run the 91 in it and see what the output is at two hours. It might just be close to the 450 the the M61 is putting out. But doubt it.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

thermal guy said:


> Right now I have settled on running a M61 in my Charlie. I was on the fence as to whether to put my M91 in it but the reduced runtime with the 91 is huge. Your taking maybe 45 minutes on high as opposed to something like 2 hours for the M61.but like I say I’m still on the fence.i think what I need to do is run the 91 in it and see what the output is at two hours. It might just be close to the 450 the the M61 is putting out. But doubt it.





So many choices, it can become quite crazy at times. I am looking at no less than 6 ideas on my next lights. :thinking:


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

I have seen this asked several times but after searching I can not find the answer. I believe Modernflame has asked this question too. Is there any way to get the nasty moly coat or any grease or lube off of the refectors and the white cup it sits in? I ask this because it is kinda annoying when I can see all of it smeared down in there.

I think I read somewhere a while back not to use rubbing alcohol because it either cooled the Acrylic lens too fast causing it to chip, or the alcohol itself made it brittle, I don't remember and I can't find it. My go to would be Alcohol, so I am asking first before I turn one of my lenses into a brittle chipped piece of junk.


EDIT: Post #3369 has the answer. Yes, don't use alcohol to clean your lenses.


----------



## peter yetman

if it's any help, I recently cleaned a Carclo optic with Isopropyl Alcohol and it turned cloudy. I'd contaminated it with thermal paste
I think these are made of acrylic too.
P


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

peter yetman said:


> if it's any help, I recently cleaned a Carclo optic with Isopropyl Alcohol and it turned cloudy. I'd contaminated it with thermal paste
> I think these are made of acrylic too.
> P





Yes, it is. I will stay away from alcohol for sure. I might try soap and water like Modernflame did, even though it didn't work for him. Maybe Dawn dish washing detergent will work?


----------



## bykfixer

How about GoJo type degreaser then rinse with water?

My local advance auto sells pumice-free hand cleaner by Permatex I use for cleaning used auto parts before polishing. About $2.


----------



## Modernflame

CREEXHP70LED said:


> Yes, it is. I will stay away from alcohol for sure. I might try soap and water like Modernflame did, even though it didn't work for him. Maybe Dawn dish washing detergent will work?



Interested to see how you get on with this. As you say, it never worked for me but I've never claimed to be the brightest light in the collection.


----------



## thermal guy

If I’m on anything important I try to stay away from the alcohol. 😁😉


----------



## aginthelaw

You can drink the alcohol if it’s in the form of jack Daniel’s and try comet cleanser in the green can. It’s non abrasive and works well when polishing glass


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

Modernflame said:


> Interested to see how you get on with this. As you say, it never worked for me but I've never claimed to be the brightest light in the collection.





I triple washed the lens with dawn dish washing soap and dried it with bounty paper towels. I did the same thing three times with the white LED holder and dried them both really good, and perfect. No grease or oil on it at all. I am very satisfied with the results. Now the flood lens is out and the standard lens is in. I might buy one more charlie and keep a flood lens in it for CQB, or close up work, and that would fill my needs for Elzettas , unless I wanted to run an 18650..........oh my. I want to build up a really nice Malkoff collection too. lol.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

aginthelaw said:


> You can drink the alcohol if it’s in the form of jack Daniel’s and try comet cleanser in the green can. It’s non abrasive and works well when polishing glass



After cleaning I had a few beers and about to have the last glass of wine at 2 AM then turning in. lol


----------



## thermal guy

I’m seriously looking into buying an elzetta bones. Can any that has one comment on the throw of it. Do you feel it throws at least as good as say a Malkoff M61? Thanks.


----------



## nmiller

My best recollection is yes. To my eyes there was a bit more throw and less spill. I thought the hot spot was stronger on the bones. Based on the candela numbers the Elzetta should throw 190 meters. That sounds too high to me but I no longer have them to compare. Also, my numbers could be wrong. Per Elzetta the candela is 9050.


----------



## thermal guy

9050 is two times that of the M61. If memory serves. So ya it should throw better. Been interested in this light for awhile now.guess I need to start looking for one. Thanks


----------



## nmiller

I had one. Sold it. Regret it. Nice tint and able to run off of 18650 and cr123a cells. The hi/lo Bravo is nicer if you would settle for a 16650 cell...... Same tint etc.


----------



## bykfixer

thermal guy said:


> I’m seriously looking into buying an elzetta bones. Can any that has one comment on the throw of it. Do you feel it throws at least as good as say a Malkoff M61? Thanks.



The Bones would be more like an M61N tint-wise. Throw-wise it has 3 distinct beams. A narrow center spot to throw like the old P60 did, a wider spot to spread the throw some like an M61 and a defined spill like a M61.

Now in the field all you see is a cone of light. Against a wall you can see the edges, but there's no rings or artifacts. I use mine in daylight to shine into pipes, manholes or inspect caverns inside of engine bays, under fenders and such. 

I use a battery magazine from PowerTac (made by Olight) with CR123's in mine.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

thermal guy said:


> Right now I have settled on running a M61 in my Charlie. I was on the fence as to whether to put my M91 in it but the reduced runtime with the 91 is huge. Your taking maybe 45 minutes on high as opposed to something like 2 hours for the M61.but like I say I’m still on the fence.i think what I need to do is run the 91 in it and see what the output is at two hours. It might just be close to the 450 the the M61 is putting out. But doubt it.



Is it an M91 or M91A? I get really good runtimes with my M91s... I also have an M91A, and I feel the extra brightness is in a more dell defined hotspot that the M91 lacks.


----------



## thermal guy

I have the M91B.


----------



## Dicaeopolis

I have Elzetta Bravo and Charlie, with Malkoff drop-ins and AVS heads. I like them all. I never bought an Alpha until a few weeks ago. I think I am glad I waited. I got it for a good price new from a retailer with a coupon. It is 415 lumens on high and I have the high/low tail cap on it. I am not using it in a "tactical" role, so I put an RCR 123 in it. It seems to have increased the output. The low is almost all I need. I am very pleased with it so far. I don't use a clip. It seems to slide into my front pocket and just stay still. Talk about a little tank.


----------



## Modernflame

Dicaeopolis said:


> I never bought an Alpha until a few weeks ago...I am very pleased with it so far.



I'm happy you like it. I've had my eye on one for years but have never pulled the trigger. When they were first released, I didn't care for them, but that's only because I thought I needed a search light with miles of throw in those days. Afterward, I was able to appreciate the design, but I got obsessed with other stuff. My rapidly evolving wish list has a few other priorities, but I intend to get an Alpha before the year is out.


----------



## Dicaeopolis

It has a totally different beam profile than my Bravo AVS. It actually reminds me of my Malkoff 91BW. Obviously the Elzetta is more neutral, but it has a large hotspot. I just compared them on a white wall. I have never figured out how to post a picture here, or I would. Maybe I would have to upgrade to post a picture. The Alpha has pretty decent throw for what it is. I have been using a 3.7V RCR123. I ended up with the crenelated bezel, because I had a coupon and that's what was in stock. I don't mind them. It is thicker than the Bravo crenelations, more like the Malkoff crenelated MDX-16.5 head. Found out tonight it makes as excellent mosquito bite scratcher.:duh2:.[h=1][/h]


----------



## Fuzzywuzzies

bykfixer said:


> Elzetta are designed around Close Quarter Combat scenarios, not Search and Rescue. The idea is that the user who needs to see at a distance is usually outfitted with night vision gear to avoid being spotted by a foe from a distance. They build lights with the flash/bang scenario in mind.
> 
> Malkoff are built largely for police and rescue folks who may be searching for a missing person or trying to spot a downed wire after a storm or wreck. Or the home owner who needs to see if the dog is barking at a racoon or a fox in the chicken coop (which was how Gene got started.)



bykfixer, I'm pleased to say it was your post that tipped me over the edge into laying down my hard-earned cash on an Elzetta Bravo with the flood lens. I was considering throwing a Malkoff into my very, VERY well-worn (almost through the tail stand ring) and modded Solarforce L2P, but went all-out on the Elzetta AVS flood instead.
Having bored it (properly - I'm an engineer) to take 18650s, and trialled it for a week or so now, I can say with absolute confidence that it is one of the best tools I own. (And I own a few)  
Cheers!


----------



## Modernflame

Remind me, does the standard twisty tail cap from the Bravo/Charlie series work on the Bones?


----------



## bykfixer

My Alpha hi/lo works on my Bones. Cannot say for certain about the B or C though. 

On and for fyi the Hi/lo thing kinda works but not really. It goes from full output to about 80% (looking) output with the Alpha hi/lo tailcap.


----------



## thermal guy

I have had a bones on my wish list for awhile now. And every time I’m ready to grab one I see a Malkoff I want instead. Decisions decisions


----------



## Johnnyh

I tried the Bravo/Charlie Hi-Lo cap on a Bones some time ago and it worked fine. Don’t have the Bones any more but there was no problem when I tried it. Don’t remember seeing the effect seen with the Alpha cap.


----------



## peter yetman

I get the impression that the tail end of the tube is a bit sharper on the Bones, i.e. not flat, so the pin that works the hi/lo bit can sometimes find itself over the edge of the tube and not butted against it.
So it may be a bit hit and miss.
P


----------



## Johnnyh

peter yetman said:


> I get the impression that the tail end of the tube is a bit sharper on the Bones, i.e. not flat, so the pin that works the hi/lo bit can sometimes find itself over the edge of the tube and not butted against it.
> So it may be a bit hit and miss.
> P



Oh yea...now I remember...it worked on mine but as Peter said, this was a concern. (I wish I had the Bones in hand but I gifted it to my son). There is a marked difference...not much there for the high low pin to contact on the Bones.


----------



## bykfixer

Don't forget flamer, a clicky with a lockout feature can also be used as a twisty with momentary. 
Just leave it clicked to on.

The Bones comes natural HA where the others are black. I use the factory tailcap for a twisty at times but the travel of the button is geared for momentary and the click is pretty quiet like all Elzetta clickys.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

bykfixer said:


> Don't forget flamer, a clicky with a lockout feature can also be used as a twisty with momentary.
> Just leave it clicked to on.
> 
> The Bones comes natural HA where the others are black. I use the factory tailcap for a twisty at times but the travel of the button is geared for momentary and the click is pretty quiet like all Elzetta clickys.





I think the clicky is a little quieter because the Elzetta's boot is really thick, at least it feels much thicker than a SF or McClicky for sure. I always notice after the light has been sitting a few hours with no use, the very first click on is the quietest. Then if you keep clicking it, all the other clicks sound louder. Very strange sounding no pun intended.


----------



## Modernflame

Thanks, fellas. I like the idea of a no-nonsense, bullet proof, back up twisty tail cap. I doubt the clicky version would ever fail me, but I have a tendency to collect spares in my parts bin. I don't really need high/low for this application.


----------



## bykfixer

Agreed, twistys are definitely less likely to give out before a clicky.


----------



## thermal guy

Now if we could just convince Henry of that😁😁 But absolutely I love twistys. Not to much that can go wrong.


----------



## Modernflame

I finally pulled the trigger on one of these.






The threads came bone dry, which I found amusing in a poetic sort of way.






No worries. I've got more thread lube than Jimmy Kimmel has jokes. One outstanding feature is the mismatched anodizing. My photos don't do justice, but the bezel ring, flashlight body, and tail cap are all different shades of grey and have unique textures. Yep, instant Surefire nostalgia out of the box!


----------



## knucklegary

Howdy MF.. Really like the ano mismatch. Is your new acquisition fresh from Elzetta store?


----------



## Modernflame

knucklegary said:


> Howdy MF.. Really like the ano mismatch. Is your new acquisition fresh from Elzetta store?



Yes, it's new from Elzetta. I took delivery today straight from the Bluegrass State. There is a dent with a scratch on the head of the light near the bezel ring. At first I wondered if this was a used and returned flashlight, but there is accompanying damage to the blister pack itself. I suspect it got a little roughed up in the warehouse or perhaps during shipping. Doesn't matter. This will be a working light.


----------



## knucklegary

That bump takes the "ah shoot" out of first dinging a pristine finish. Bones is a great service light!


----------



## thermal guy

Wow. Ok dry threads and a little damage to light.Not really acceptable. But how do you like it?


----------



## Modernflame

thermal guy said:


> Wow. Ok dry threads and a little damage to light.Not really acceptable. But how do you like it?



I've owned a Bravo and a Charlie before, so I doubt this evening's tests will bring any surprises in terms of beam shape, tint, etc. I like the overall aesthetic. I think that the gradual taper of the head as it joins the body makes for a better grip than the Bravo, which always felt a little short for my hands. Knurling is nice and grippy. I think I'd prefer a twisty tail cap for nuke proof durability, even if the black anodizing doesn't match. I'm also a big fan of lights that use one battery. 

With winter approaching, I wanted something simple, bright and reliable that could fit in my pocket, even if it's too large for edc. I've got other lights that provide low output and long run time, and still others that provide range. This one will ride with me on those dark winter time commutes home from the office and on night time errands.


----------



## bykfixer

Hopefully your in stock lube is better than Jimmy Kimmels jokes. :fail:

My Bones arrived "bone dry".... Just kidding. It was slathered with a white lube all over the threads. 
The ano matched perfect. I bought one about a day aftrr they showed up on the Elzetta site though. NA finish aint an easy thing to get correct. So I figured I got lucky.


----------



## Modernflame

This Elzetta flashlight equipped with the standard lens is breath taking. It provides a full view of everything, left to right, high and low, out to a respectable distance. Last time I owned Elzetta products, I was not able to appreciate the design philosophy. I get it now.


----------



## thermal guy

Dam it! Ya ok the bones is next on my list.


----------



## Modernflame

I thought the Alpha would be my next purchase, but I'm happy with this decision. The Bones is also perfect for my back yard. The Hound Dog works well, too, but I have to waive it around a bit more.


----------



## bykfixer

The Alpha 415 is a really good backup to the Bones like Streamlights Strion is to a Stinger in my view. 

You know it's a backup so you don't expect full performance, yet it can hold its own pretty well.


----------



## Grizzman

The bored Bravo, with AVS head, really is a phenomenal light. If it'll fit comfortably in my pocket, it's what I tend to choose over all others.


----------



## bykfixer

Just acquired a Bravo so I look forward to its arrival. Non bored, AVS with a hi/lo that is reportedly SN 00048. 

I'll pair it with my Alpha 315 hi/lo.


----------



## ven

oooooooo i missed this mr flame, congrats. I still have mine with flood and throw optic(latter is in). Love the warm side temp, maybe 4000k ish. Its one of my all time fav switches to boot!(see what i did there). Its a little bulky carry for pockets, but winter coat time, good to go. Single mode simplicity, get what your given, i also love. 
Make no bones about it, its fits in nicely with some of my US lights


----------



## thermal guy

Right there are the toughest 3 light manufactures out there!!


----------



## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> Just acquired a Bravo so I look forward to its arrival...



You got a great deal! I'm glad it's going to someone who can appreciate its value.



ven said:


> oooooooo i missed this mr flame, congrats...



Thanks, mate! I might have thought that was my collection until I saw that the photo was made in your living room.



ven said:


> Its one of my all time fav switches to boot!(see what i did there).



You're a punny guy!


----------



## ven

................:laughing:


----------



## ven

thermal guy said:


> Dam it! Ya ok the bones is next on my list.



You wont regret it, if can get flood and throw optics, like having 2 lights in one(bar the 15 second swap over). The flood is wonderful, a warm side flood of usefulness, soft on the eyes and brain. Want punch, the throw does kick some decent light out there, ample for most applications. Its a different type of beam up close or against something checking out. In actual use, the hot spot/corona/spill is more subtle. The almost silent switch is a benchmark other switches should be judged against!!!!


----------



## usdiver

Ven do you know what switch they use?


----------



## ven

usdiver said:


> Ven do you know what switch they use?



I dont sorry, not had it apart either to look at. Its near silent and has great feel. Defo one of the better switches i have used over the years.


----------



## desert.snake

Interestingly, is it normal when the LED is covered with something like hoarfrost? There are no complaints about the work and the quality of the beam, everything is at the highest level, just the first time I see such dome cover.

The first photo - I removed the lens and shone only through a plastic reflector.


----------



## archimedes

I had something similar (but much more severe) happen to the dome of one particular emitter, an MC-E, I think.

It spontaneously became covered in a sort of "frosty-looking" fuzz.

Still worked, though, apart from the obvious interference with the optics.

Not a commercial light engine, it was a custom mod (in an Aleph e-can) ... extremely weird.


----------



## desert.snake

archimedes said:


> I had something similar (but much more severe) happen to the dome of one particular emitter, an MC-E, I think.
> 
> It spontaneously became covered in a sort of "frosty-looking" fuzz.
> 
> Still worked, though, apart from the obvious interference with the optics.
> 
> Not a commercial light engine, it was a custom mod (in an Aleph e-can) ... extremely weird.



Yeah, like frozen soap bubble







Has your MCE died?


----------



## archimedes

desert.snake said:


> Yeah, like frozen soap bubble



Yes, very much like that.



desert.snake said:


> Has your MCE died?



No.


----------



## desert.snake

archimedes said:


> Yes, very much like that.
> 
> No.



So everything is OK, if put a flood lens, then maybe it will even benefit


----------



## Modernflame

Last night I used my Bones for about an hour continuously. The head of the flashlight got a bit warm, so I ran it briefly under the tap. Of course I checked to make sure that the bezel ring was fully tightened first. I didn't notice it last night, but there was significant water ingress. Fortunately, the emitter did not get wet.

When I took it apart to dry it, the only unusual thing I noticed was that the threads and O-rings had no lube whatsoever. While that may have contributed to the leak, I don't think a little running water should get past the O-rings. From time to time I clean all of my lights this way and have never had a problem.

Anyone else ever experience this?


----------



## peter yetman

I've been concerned about this since I read it.
I wonder if you have the correct orings in the lens area?
I think I'd take the bezel off and check around the lens for orings, then maybe Mr Fixer would count his and you can compare. I really don't think it should be leaking.
P


----------



## thermal guy

You know same thing happened to me few weeks ago. Not an elzetta. Head got hot pretty dam hot so gave her a soak to cool it off and found water in the light when I took it apart. There is a possibility that the aluminum is expanding a little when the head gets hot and allowed water to get in.


----------



## the0dore3524

The same happened to me a couple years back with my Alpha. I threw it in the pool for fun, and when I took it out and washed it off, I noticed water had leaked into the optic and head. It might have to do with the heat and thermal expansion like @thermal guy said.

Stock O-ring at the lens. I ended up reseating it, but haven’t tried throwing it in water since.


----------



## bykfixer

Factory original setup and replacements. 
The four to the left are Alpha and Bravo/Charlie specific.
Of the four the bottom left one fits at the tail cap end of the Elzetta lineup.


----------



## peter yetman

Also thinking scientifically....
When you heat up trhe head the air inside it expands and maybe vents slightly around the Orings. When you cool it fast inder water the air cotracts and will suck in water.
With normal perssures inside and outside the light water will not enter, but you've just turned your light into a vacuum cleaner.
P


----------



## bykfixer

Hmmmmmm…… 
Could beeeeeee


----------



## LTBL777

A light with this rep and cost should not leak.


----------



## thermal guy

No. But it could just be a bad O-Ring. Best to find out the real reason that this happened before we start sending hate mail 😁


----------



## Modernflame

Thanks for the concern, fellas. After inspection, I find that the O-rings were in tact and correctly seated. They've now been properly lubed and reinstalled. Still not sure what caused the leak.


----------



## bykfixer

One thing I learned with my first Alpha is it is easy to get the o'ring between the lens and bezel misaligned. Sometimes it would take me a couple of tries to tighten down the bezel and not see a portion of the o'ring. 

Perhaps it's that with yours.


----------



## Slumber

I've always been a little suspicious that no Elzetta AVS review did any real torture testing. The M60 in an Elzetta has been beaten beyond expectation, but the AVS doesn't have the same level of torture applied in reviews. I own and love my AVS, but I suspect the bezel ring is the weak point compared to the M60 bezel.


----------



## thermal guy

Modernflame said:


> Thanks for the concern, fellas. After inspection, I find that the O-rings were in tact and correctly seated. They've now been properly lubed and reinstalled. Still not sure what caused the leak.



Well time to check the other end. If you got the whole thing wet water could of came in through the switch or where tailcap screws on the body.


----------



## fordcappy

Same here with the Alpha o ring on the head. My experience is you can over tighten the bezel and crimp the o ring.


----------



## bykfixer

I found it interesting how the o'ring of the Bones and Bravo against the body are in the same location but the one on the Bones is thicker.


----------



## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> One thing I learned with my first Alpha is it is easy to get the o'ring between the lens and bezel misaligned...





fordcappy said:


> Same here with the Alpha o ring on the head. My experience is you can over tighten the bezel and crimp the o ring.



I'll have to experiment a bit more, but I think this is the weak point. Using another flashlight to illuminate the bezel, I can see the O-ring in some places, but it disappears completely in others.



thermal guy said:


> If you got the whole thing wet water could of came in through the switch or where tailcap screws on the body.



Sorry, forgot to mention that there was no water in the battery compartment.


----------



## desert.snake

I suspect this is due to the fact that the TIR relies on a plastic cone, which can expand differently than aluminum, cone is pressed by external pressure and really just sucks in water. There is no additional o-ring under the cone, perhaps this is the reason, more rings are needed. 

Somehow I schematically drew the composition of those flashlights that I had in terms of the mechanical reliability of glass protection. From the point of view of water protection, A1 and A3 will be the best here.


----------



## bykfixer

With the inherent design of Elzettas only A2 is the only option.
There is no lens per sae. And with an option to swap on a floody optic or conventional it means the bezel ring isn't glued on like with the SureFire E setup. 

Just need to be careful not to over tighten at reassembly I suppose.


----------



## Modernflame

Perhaps it was a mistake to tighten the bezel just before getting it wet. I remember being surprised at how much I could turn the ring, but maybe they had it dialed in correctly at the factory. 

I've backed it off a little. Now I'm trying to work up the courage to dunk it in a tub of water and watch for air bubbles.


----------



## tech25

desert.snake said:


>


 Great diagram, I have taken my Okluma which you have as “A2 “ swimming and used it hard. I think a difference between the Elzetta and Okluma is the bezel ring. The Okluma doesn’t have a bezel ring, the light engine is screwed into the whole bezel up against the “o”ring so there is less place for water to get in.


----------



## bykfixer

I learned a while ago with reassembling Honda engines that o'rings can squash if over tightened. Now Honda manuals have specs and if it says 10 pounds of torque and you apply 15, it leaks. 

A go kart racing guy taught me the finger pull method with a wrench. Example would be to tug on the wrench until it tries to straighten out one finger, two, three etc as more fingers means more strength. Tug until it tries to straighten out certain number of fingers based on stated torque amount(s). 10 pounds would be one finger. 

Applying this to the front end of an Elzetta would mean loosely grasping the bezel ring with thumb on one side, a pair of finger tips on the other and twist until said fingers try to slip. Then stop. 

My Bravo flat bezel ring has knurling for example so a looser grasp would be needed versus the smooth surface of the Bones (or my Alpha QCB ring). That's how I was able to repeatedly reassemble my Alpha without dislocating the front o'ring.


----------



## thermal guy

Modernflame said:


> Perhaps it was a mistake to tighten the bezel just before getting it wet. I remember being surprised at how much I could turn the ring, but maybe they had it dialed in correctly at the factory.
> 
> I've backed it off a little. Now I'm trying to work up the courage to dunk it in a tub of water and watch for air bubbles.



That could be it MF. Maybe just over tighten it and shifted the O-ring a little. I used to work on tanks and have the bad habit of over tightening everything. Our motto was A hole tight then a quarter turn to the right 😁


----------



## bykfixer

Just like an oil filter on a car TG


----------



## archimedes

I usually just keep going until I hear something crack :shrug:


----------



## thermal guy

bykfixer said:


> Just like an oil filter on a car TG



Exactly! There’s just something that drives me nuts about lose bolts and fittings.And maintenance at my work has hidden every single container of lock tight from me for a radius of 10 miles. Lol


----------



## thermal guy

archimedes said:


> I usually just keep going until I hear something crack :shrug:



Lol yep then just back it off a hair. She’ll be fine.I once had a new guy working for me and he had a 2 foot cheater pipe on an Allen wrench tightening a 1/4-20 bolt. When I finally got over to him to tell him I like the way he thinks but there was no need for it to be THAT tight he explained that it was going in hard lol. I discovered he grabbed 1/4-28’s instead! I wasn’t very happy. Nor was my Machine shop😞


----------



## the0dore3524

Slumber Pass said:


> I've always been a little suspicious that no Elzetta AVS review did any real torture testing. The M60 in an Elzetta has been beaten beyond expectation, but the AVS doesn't have the same level of torture applied in reviews. I own and love my AVS, but I suspect the bezel ring is the weak point compared to the M60 bezel.



Check out posts 1976-1983 on this thread. Here's another. The AVS is still pretty darn tough. But I agree that the original design is probably tougher, and like you said the bezel ring is a weak point.


----------



## thermal guy

I have 3 original elzetta’s.Two 3 cells and one 2 cell. All with M60’s in them. I can’t imagine a stronger setup.


----------



## bykfixer

Here's an oldy but goody circa 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaCwgVrdXFA


----------



## thermal guy

Lol yep that’s the one that gave Gene all the trouble.The M60 module is and never was waterproof.His phone was blowing up after that video to try and confirm that.


----------



## Modernflame

A trial by baptism. Can the Elzetta Bones hold its breath for 60 seconds without taking in any water? My intrepid HDS Executive has volunteered to go first as a control.






HDS first...






No air bubbles!






Test concluded after one minute, but only because my in laws will be here any moment now.






Both lights maintained perfect water tightness. I think we've solved the problem with the lens O-ring on the Bones, as the submersion requires more resistance than a splash of running water. The solution is not to over tighten the bezel ring on the Elzetta. My only criticism is that it may be difficult to dial in the correct amount of torque while in the field, in a hurry, or perhaps under pressure. This does not affect me personally, but it's something to consider depending on your use case.


----------



## peter yetman

Also, I reckon that if you tightened while it was hot it would have been easier to overdo it.
So glad you're waterproof again.
P


----------



## Modernflame

peter yetman said:


> Also, I reckon that if you tightened while it was hot it would have been easier to overdo it.
> So glad you're waterproof again.
> P



Thanks, mate. I hope this thread helps other Elzetta users!


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

It is really ironic that Elzetta rates their lights waterproof down to 10 meters, and this is happening.


----------



## Random Dan

I have good news! After completing a long distance move I have been unable to find my Oveready bored Elzetta Bravo for the last couple weeks. I was really starting to worry that it was gone for good, but today I found it! I had tucked it away in a box with a knife for some reason.


----------



## Modernflame

So glad you've been reunited with your Bravo. We all know that anxiety. Just out of curiosity, what knife was deemed cool enough to get boxed up with the Elzetta for a long distance move?


----------



## Random Dan

Modernflame said:


> So glad you've been reunited with your Bravo. We all know that anxiety. Just out of curiosity, what knife was deemed cool enough to get boxed up with the Elzetta for a long distance move?


It was a Bradford Guardian 3, which is a pretty cool knife, but I suspect that the decision had more to do with the fact that it had a bravo sized empty space in its box than with any intentional pairing.


----------



## CREEXHP70LED

Random Dan said:


> It was a Bradford Guardian 3, which is a pretty cool knife, but I suspect that the decision had more to do with the fact that it had a bravo sized empty space in its box than with any intentional pairing.





I saw those little fixed blades on BladeHQ and thought they looked pretty decent. Not a Busse Combat in INFI steel, but still quite nice. LOL


----------



## desert.snake

> With the inherent design of Elzettas only A2 is the only option.
> There is no lens per sae. And with an option to swap on a floody optic or conventional it means the bezel ring isn't glued on like with the SureFire E setup.



In fact, this can be done, but it does not make sense now for production)) I recently disassembled the M6, here, in essence, the same design, only the lens relies on bare aluminum, if make the white cone only as an optical element that does not hold the lens, and the lens lies on a silicone gasket aluminum based (it will not be lost when replacing the lens, as held in the groove), it will be as easy to replace as it is now, even easier, because no need to look for a serrated ledge, but just put lens there. Glass is also not added. It will be light for deep sea immersion, only butt switch will be the weak point. But you need to change the rim of the lens, make it without protrusions for orientation in holder - smooth. I did not save the photo, but I remember how it works.







or more curly silicone gasket, with side lens protection


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks desert snake , really like your explanations. thank you.


----------



## desert.snake

If someday they want to make full underwater light, then maybe it will be useful to them))

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW-dFhkV1qQ


----------



## desert.snake

Did anyone measure the number of candelas for bravo and charlie lately? Interestingly, as they differ from what is written on the package


----------



## thermal guy

Out favorite yard sale site it having a heck of a sale on theses bad boys. Not sure if I was allowed to say “e-bay “🤔


----------



## fordcappy

thermal guy said:


> Out favorite yard sale site it having a heck of a sale on theses bad boys. Not sure if I was allowed to say “e-bay “[emoji848]



Those are some great prices, maybe they are getting ready to release an update to the line.


----------



## flatline

Which Elzetta models can fit a Malkoff drop-in?

--flatline


----------



## thermal guy

None. You need the old style bezel. But they still sell them on there site. Pretty cheap.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

RE: Malkoff drop in

Cathy said I'll need this lens kit: VME Head Lens and Gaskets, for use with the Standard Bezel (on the Elzetta web site). In addition to an Elzetta charlie tube and tail switch.


----------



## thermal guy

Yes. You need the old style bezel. Not there new avs head.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

thermal guy said:


> Out favorite yard sale site it having a heck of a sale on theses bad boys. Not sure if I was allowed to say “e-bay “樂



I used to have really good luck finding the older Malkoff compatible versions of the lights on Amazon really cheap after they made the switch to the new lenses... although the last time I tried it, I got a brand new Charlie for $75 (the listing was for an ZFL) which is still an amazing deal.


----------



## thermal guy

Yes there still out there cheap from time to time. They are fantastic lights. You can’t break them


----------



## thermal guy

Ya Charlie’s are like 115 or so delivered. That’s a hell of a lot a light for that money. I picked up a bravo Hi/lo tail. The avs head will be going on a 3 cell I got already. I didn’t need another Charlie at the moment.


----------



## fresh eddie fresh

Unfortunately, the $75 Charlie has the click tail, not the high/low, but still great for the price. All in all, I prefer the Malkoff compatible Elzettas much better, although the AVS Alphas are great lights. After reading all the posts about water intrusion, I am going to be more careful with them... two of my three Alphas are limited edition so I baby them a little but already.


----------



## thermal guy

Well I just got my bravo with AVS head. As I have become Acustom to The build quality is excellent This is my first experience with the AVS head so I put it on my three cell Charlie as that’s kinda why I bought this light in the first place. So been playing with it for about an hour outside “god I love this time of year, dark at 5:00” so first impression. This thing ROCKS! It’s beam is kinda like my Malkoff M91 but with a soft hotspot. It’s just as bright but with more throw and the tint is fantastic. I’m thinking I’ll be grabbing this thing quite a lot. In a nutshell I friken love it!


----------



## Modernflame

fresh eddie fresh said:


> After reading all the posts about water intrusion, I am going to be more careful with them...



For what it's worth, my Elzetta Bones has been water tight since that incident. The trick is not to over tighten the bezel ring. 



thermal guy said:


> In a nutshell I friken love it!



That optic provides total situational awareness. I'm a fan.


----------



## thermal guy

Ya that AVS is one hell of a light. I am really impressed.the beam and output is on par with my M91. But with Considerable more runtime at full power and the 3 cell body fits 2XAA very nicely so I’ll let you know how long they last😁


----------



## 5S8Zh5

Malkoff content...

I got a Bravo ordered to host one of my M61LL dropins. So I gathered much needed information from various CPF threads and asked Cathy at Malkoff a question or two. Ordered from Elzetta:

Bravo body
Standard Bezel
High-low tailcap

Elzetta also included two Battery Station CR123A primaries! Thanks Elzetta.

From Malkoff:

VME Head Lens and Gaskets

As luck would have it, they all arrived at the same time, even though I ordered them days apart. Took me a bit to figure out the order of assembling the lens, gaskets, standard bezel configuration - from the top looking into bezel - o-ring first, then lens (taking off two plastic pieces (one blue!) first), then flat gasket, then dropin.

The heft, grip, finish of the Bravo is very nice. Almost as tall as a 6P. The two flat, labeled surfaces on either side of the body make for a great grip surface and just feels right.

The clicky switch is silent, good feel for momentary, and click for constant on. A very short loosening turn of the tailcap (from tightened) will get you low, but then you get a pre-flash of the high when you click to constant on, then the same (flash) clicking off. Easy to fix - just loosen the tailcap a little more and voila - no pre-flash. I was a little worried there for a second, then the lightbulb above my head went off and all was well with the world once again.

Very satisfied with this setup. The low of the M61LL is very nice!


----------



## thermal guy

Glad you like it. That’s a great setup. Not only is the low with that drop in great. It will last for days!


----------



## thermal guy

Ok anyone ever try 2XAA in an elzetta Charlie with that AVS head? Well I was wondering sooo. I finally got bored after 10 hours and shut it off. It started at 50 lumens or so and when I shut it off it was way brighter then my Malkoff 2XAA on low. 
I was using eneloop pros.


----------



## delus

I want to give an Elzetta as a gift. I know he wants rechargeable batteries. I also want engraving. 
1. Doesn't anybody have pre-bored Bravo bodies in stock?
2. Would the pre-bored body have the correct logo spacing already on it, to allow engraving as well?
3. Does a non-bored Bravo with 16340's rattle? I've heard this gets about 800 lumens but only 20 minutes runtime?
4. Is the enough space to engrave a name on a Bones? 11 letters. Would it look stupid or off center? Too small?

Nice, while writing this post, have been conversing with Elzetta's people via email. They can and will engrave a Bones, with a small number of letters. The font will be small and underneath the existing bones logo, but I'm gonna go with it. They even said they could ship it this afternoon.

Problem solved!


----------



## Modernflame

What a nice gift! If you want rechargeability, then the Bones is the best solution. I'm not aware of anyone who stocks bored Elzetta hosts, at least not since OR discontinued them.


----------



## ven

Agree, the bones is excellent. If you can try and get both optics(a flood and a throw). Then they can mix it up and have even more flexibility. The nice warm beam is up there with the best imo. A guess of around 4000k ish, fantastic near silent clicky and stupid simple single mode......whats not to love .


----------



## bykfixer

Booooooones!!!


----------



## Kernelpanic

Just been reading this very long thread, is a great source of info. I’m thinking of getting a Bravo just unsure of the safety of cr123 cells in-series. Also there is a lot f mention of the hi lo tailcap having problems. Was this an isolated issue and now fixed or still an issue.
cheers
KP


----------



## peter yetman

CR123s in series is a whole lot safer than Li Ion in series, and I've been doing that for years. Surefire 6Ps were built on CR123s and they are still everyones favourite.
The Bravo will give you the Elzetta that you want with the modularity of the Malkoff.
I've never had one, so you can talk me through it.
Dunno about the Hi/Lo switch, someone else will.
P


----------



## archimedes

Kernelpanic said:


> .... I’m thinking of getting a Bravo just unsure of the safety of cr123 cells in-series....





peter yetman said:


> CR123s in series is a whole lot safer than Li Ion in series, and I've been doing that for years....



I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure we ought to gloss over this if KP is not real clear on the details.

Sorry to have to ask, KP, but I have no idea of your general experience level with this stuff .... How familiar are you with battery safety issues ?

EDIT .... :thinking: Hmmm, I don't really want to derail the main Elzetta thread with a "battery safety primer" detour here.

I'll post a few very brief thoughts on this and then the thread can move along. But if KP is unclear, I strongly recommend checking out the Batteries subforum, including "Hot Cells and Close Calls"

Cells in series need to be closely matched to avoid a weaker cell being reversed by a stronger one. Same brand, same age, same voltage, same capacity, same resistance, etc.

When primaries reverse, bad stuff happens. That tends to be towards the end of the capacity (of the weaker cell)

There is a different (and additional) issue with secondaries in series. That can cause a Li-Ion to drop below safe voltage. When that happens, it sets up a future problem to possibly occur when being recharged, more bad stuff. Protected cells are (sort of) "protected" from this.

These problems are pretty rare, but can be quite serious.

There are ways to run cells in series (relatively) safely, but certain precautions and knowledge significantly reduce the risks.


----------



## peter yetman

Thanks Arch, maybe I posted in haste.
P


----------



## archimedes

peter yetman said:


> Thanks Arch, maybe I posted in haste.
> P



No, we all understand what you meant, my friend. But I worry, especially with someone who (again, apologies if I'm wrong) is new, and seems inexperienced and uncomfortable.


----------



## Kernelpanic

Thanks for the details above guys, I’m relatively new but have some basic experience. I willl have a dig through the above sub forum and see how I feel on the cr123 vs 18650 or even look at a single cell cr123 like the Alpha worst case.
cheers
KP


----------



## archimedes

Kernelpanic said:


> Thanks for the details above guys, I’m relatively new but have some basic experience. I willl have a dig through the above sub forum and see how I feel on the cr123 vs 18650 or even look at a single cell cr123 like the Alpha worst case.
> cheers
> KP



I've been here for a while, and personally stick with single-cell setups for ~ 90% of my present EDC-type torches 

It was a little different a decade ago when getting even 50 lumens out of a one-cell light was a challenge :shrug:

Even a (single) 18650 doesn't have the same concerns.


----------



## bykfixer

Hi/lo tailcap flicker issue was more with the Alpha and has reportedly been solved. My Bravo Hi/lo does not flicker at all. 

Good question about the cells. If you buy say a ten pack and use two in a light, always keep that pair together. Say you have a 1 cell like an Alpha, do not pair a battery that was used in that one with a new one. If in any doubt you can check them with a volt meter, but under normal circumstances if you keep pairs together and singles as a single you should have no issues with CR123's. If you have a 3 cell or 4 cell light same applies.


----------



## Kernelpanic

The Alpha looks a great little light and safe with single cell. Also good to hear the tailcap issues were fixed.
cheers
KP


----------



## bykfixer

What I like about the hi/lo on the Alpha is the ability to flash it to high in momentary while it's is on low. 
You loosen the tail cap to gain low setting. Twist it towards tight just a tad and a firm press beside the button flashes high until you release. 

Some say the slop in threads was a fault. Elzetta told me it was designed to do just that so the threads were that way on purpose. 

Another feature I like is how quickly it unscrews for battery swap. Again, others complained. But by the time you've finished twisting the tailcap off with many lights the Elzetta tail cap is off, new battery installed and screwed back on. Ya just have to be careful not to cross thread when in a hurry.


----------



## Modernflame

archimedes said:


> Cells in series need to be closely matched to avoid a weaker cell being reversed by a stronger one. Same brand, same age, same voltage, same capacity, same resistance, etc.



Thanks, Arch. I should have read your post before I posted in the other thread.


----------



## archimedes

Modernflame said:


> Thanks, Arch. I should have read your post before I posted in the other thread.



Not sure what you are referring to, but no worries

EDIT ... NVM, I saw it and agree


----------



## Beard Man

bykfixer said:


> What I like about the hi/lo on the Alpha is the ability to flash it to high in momentary while it's is on low.



Yeah,but it's annoying when you turn light off on Low and it momentary flash to High.


----------



## Modernflame

Beard Man said:


> Yeah,but it's annoying when you turn light off on Low and it momentary flash to High.



Easy enough to avoid by backing the tail cap off a quarter turn or so. Bykfixer means that you can twist the tail cap _just enough_ to get low beam. There's enough slack in the threads to get high mode when you compress the switch.


----------



## thermal guy

I LOVE this feature. I have a bravo that’s loaded with a M61LLL and keep it set to low. A simple press and I have high. Release and back to low. Very nice option to have.


----------



## Beard Man

Modernflame said:


> Easy enough to avoid by backing the tail cap off a quarter turn or so. Bykfixer means that you can twist the tail cap _just enough_ to get low beam. There's enough slack in the threads to get high mode when you compress the switch.



You always have to "hunt" tail cap turns to avoid accidentally flash Hi,when turning light off on Lo mode.

Malkoff design it much better in my opinion.


----------



## thermal guy

They both have their benefits. But elzetta you can keep it on low and have access to high very quickly. With Malkoff’s you must turn the bezel. Difficult with one hand. I use and like them both.


----------



## Modernflame

Beard Man said:


> You always have to "hunt" tail cap turns to avoid accidentally flash Hi,when turning light off on Lo mode.
> 
> Malkoff design it much better in my opinion.



I get what you're saying. I love both Elzetta and Malkoff for various reasons. Just wanted to say that I don't have to hunt for true low mod. Just put man hands on the tail cap and twist it. No high mode is possible. Machining tolerances being what they are, you just have to back the tail cap off a fair bit before you are clear of high mode.


----------



## Beard Man

Modernflame said:


> I get what you're saying. I love both Elzetta and Malkoff for various reasons. Just wanted to say that I don't have to hunt for true low mod. Just put man hands on the tail cap and twist it. No high mode is possible. Machining tolerances being what they are, you just have to back the tail cap off a fair bit before you are clear of high mode.



I understand,I mean when you turn light off on Low,it momentary flash to High.

To avoid this,you have to make more tail cap turns,but in this case the tail cap will have more thread play.

Plus,my Elzetta Bravo tail cap switch slightly flickering every time I turn light on or off (tail cap fully tighten).

Try to click switch on/off but do not remove the finger completely,in this case flashlight should be constantly lit,and try to click switch on and off periodically,without turning light off,you will see slightly flickering every time you click it.

Even completely turn light on/off I can still see flickering when it clicks. Not a big deal especially when it's hard to see this in actual light use, but it's there.

This never happens with a Malkoff/McClicky switch.


----------



## LED Monkey

You could try to tighten the inside ring in the tail cap in case it's loose and clean off the inside of the tail cap for a good contact current flow.


----------



## Beard Man

LED Monkey said:


> You could try to tighten the inside ring in the tail cap in case it's loose and clean off the inside of the tail cap for a good contact current flow.



Everything is tight and nothing loose but still flickering,not bothering me but it's there.


----------



## bykfixer

Hmmm, first I've heard of the flicker on high mode. Mine has always been on low mode with a steady rythm of a brief blast to high. Kinda like the worlds slowest pulse width modulation or something. 

Elzetta says they'll fix it, I've just never sent it back to them. Mine is an Alpha that has the issue. I have two, one of which does not flicker so I stashed that one away as a replacement if ever needed.


----------



## Beard Man

bykfixer said:


> Hmmm, first I've heard of the flicker on high mode. Mine has always been on low mode with a steady rythm of a brief blast to high. Kinda like the worlds slowest pulse width modulation or something.
> 
> Elzetta says they'll fix it, I've just never sent it back to them. Mine is an Alpha that has the issue. I have two, one of which does not flicker so I stashed that one away as a replacement if ever needed.



There is no flickering on Hi/Lo mode,it only flicker when it clicks.
Try to click switch on/off but do not remove the finger completely,in this case flashlight should be *constantly* lit,and try to click switch on and off periodically,without turning light off,you will see slightly flickering every time you click,click,click...


----------



## bykfixer

Gotcha.


----------



## INFRNL

delus said:


> I want to give an Elzetta as a gift. I know he wants rechargeable batteries. I also want engraving.
> 1. Doesn't anybody have pre-bored Bravo bodies in stock?
> 2. Would the pre-bored body have the correct logo spacing already on it, to allow engraving as well?
> 3. Does a non-bored Bravo with 16340's rattle? I've heard this gets about 800 lumens but only 20 minutes runtime?
> 4. Is the enough space to engrave a name on a Bones? 11 letters. Would it look stupid or off center? Too small?
> 
> Nice, while writing this post, have been conversing with Elzetta's people via email. They can and will engrave a Bones, with a small number of letters. The font will be small and underneath the existing bones logo, but I'm gonna go with it. They even said they could ship it this afternoon.
> 
> Problem solved!



Wish I saw this earlier or someone else provided more info/options for you.

You could have bought an engraved bravo and had a local machine shop bore it for you. Or you could have sent it to a fellow member like Martin D White to bore it. I don't think the cost to bore it for 18mm cells would have cost too much.

Hope the person enjoys the Bones, heard it's a good light as well


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Wish Elzetta had a version of the Charlie that could take 17500 or 18650 batteries.

(I do own a Charlie,but I don't use it all that much,since my Zebralight SC64w and Olight SR1 II are rechargable,brighter..and also easier to pocket carry.)

The durabilty of Elzetta lights I love...I just don't like feeding the hungry light monster with CR123s constantly.


----------



## LED Monkey

I don't have the Charlie Elzetta just the Bravo model but I think you can run the Charlie on 2x 16500 li ion cells. Efest has IMR 16500 900mah. You won't get as much capacity but you should get the full output or very close with the AVS head, 3x cr123a=9v or 2x 16500=8.4v . At least you'll be running rechargeables. You can check "Battery Junction".


----------



## LED Monkey

There are even some 1000mah li ion 14500 batteries now you could give a try with a few wraps of paper around them for a better fit. That might keep away the hungry light monster for a while. I've been using 16650's in my Bravo and that works pretty well.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

What I meant..is a version of the Charlie designed to take rechargable batteries from the start.Basiclly,a 3-cell version of the Bones.


----------



## bykfixer

A bored Charlie (ie 3 cell Bones) would use 3x18350's? 2x18500's perhaps?


----------



## LED Monkey

AMD64Blondie said:


> What I meant..is a version of the Charlie designed to take rechargable batteries from the start.Basiclly,a 3-cell version of the Bones.



The short answer is no. But you still have a few options you could make work for you, whether you wanted to use the Charlie as is, or have it bored out.


----------



## LED Monkey

I don't have the Bones either but my guess is the Bones has the same electronics as the AVS head for the Charlie and Bravo accept it has a battery tube that will take an 18650 cell @ 4.2v. I run my Bravo with a 16650 @ 4.2v fully charged, the lumen output will be reduced compared to using 2x cr123a @ 6v to whatever lumens it can generate with the slightly lower voltage from the 16650 cell. If anyone that has a Bones light, maybe they can tell me what the bones output/lumens is with a 18650. You could run your Charlie with the same voltage as a stock Bones by using 1x 16650 and a dummy cell spacer and get a decent run time with it. Hence a "Charlie" version of the Bones.


----------



## bykfixer

The AVS can go from 6 volts to 9. (+/-)
The Bones can go from 3 to 6. (+/-)

The Bones uses the same optic system as the AVS. Without knowing some trade secrets I cannot say how one or the other engine can be altered but using a 18650 in the Bones I could not see a difference over the primaries. I stuck with primaries in a 2 cell magazine for both of my Bones lights though.


----------



## thermal guy

Actually the AVS can run on 3 volts. I ran my Charlie with my AVS head for over 10 hours on 2 eneloop pro’s.It runs at reduced output of course. It started out around 40-50 lumens and by 10 hours was maybe 5? I ended the test but it was still chugging along and still very usable.


----------



## bykfixer

I suppose "meant to run on" would've been a more correct way to say it TG. I don't own a Charlie but if I did I'd probably do the eneloop idea or perhaps a pair of ultimate lithiums since my preference is primary fuel.


----------



## nmiller

Anyone ever try to disassemble an AVS head? I was wondering if you could remove the module without destroying it.


----------



## thermal guy

Well the led is potted do not sure it’s possible. What are you thinking to do?


----------



## nmiller

Trying to run a different drop in. Thought if I could take the module out and just use the aluminum head I would try to fit a different p60 in there. The original bezel isn’t big enough.


----------



## novice

My recently acquired used AVS Elzetta Charlie will run on 2xAW 17500 cells (1100 mAh). I don't know what the runtime is on either hi or lo on those.


----------



## TheGreatBamReno

Does anyone know if the "standard bezel" that fits Malkoff drop-ins comes with a lens? I'm hopping into the GB for the Malkoff M91B N in 5k, and I'd like the option to drop that module into an Elzetta Bravo (with high/low cap) running a 16650 for general around town carry. Wondering if I also need to pickup the Malkoff MDX 16.5 lens and gasket kit to fit into the Elzetta standard bezel, or if it comes with the glass included.

I'll likely also add the AVS head and use the pure Elzetta setup with primaries as my backcountry hunting and camping light.

Thanks,
Cory


----------



## AstroTurf

you'll need this lens kit:

https://malkoffdevices.com/products/vme-head-lens-and-gaskets



TheGreatBamReno said:


> Does anyone know if the "standard bezel" that fits Malkoff drop-ins comes with a lens? I'm hopping into the GB for the Malkoff M91B N in 5k, and I'd like the option to drop that module into an Elzetta Bravo (with high/low cap) running a 16650 for general around town carry. Wondering if I also need to pickup the Malkoff MDX 16.5 lens and gasket kit to fit into the Elzetta standard bezel, or if it comes with the glass included.
> 
> I'll likely also add the AVS head and use the pure Elzetta setup with primaries as my backcountry hunting and camping light.
> 
> Thanks,
> Cory


----------



## neutralwhite

from elzetta to me via fb:

" We are working on several new things for Fall. Stay tuned! "


----------



## nmiller

That's exciting. I hope to see a 2 cell alpha. That would be great!


----------



## thermal guy

OH! Something new from them! Can’t wait to see what they are thinking of. There stuff is fantastic.


----------



## thermal guy

nmiller said:


> That's exciting. I hope to see a 2 cell alpha. That would be great!



I’m thinking a 2 cell alpha would overlap with there bravo.


----------



## StagMoose

I was thinking “isn’t a 2 cell alpha called a Bravo?” 

Guessing a smaller (not AVS) head design. So an old school Bravo with higher output? 

Be interesting to see something new from them. Their stuff is great, although I only have the Bravo, but it is great. My woods walking flood light.


----------



## thermal guy

There geared more towards military/police kind of stuff so maybe a thrower is in the works


----------



## Slumber

A thrower with an optic would nice. Or an 18650 light with high low. Or both those options in one light.


----------



## neutralwhite

I’ve mentioned flat white thrower to them and a new bones and 18650 use like Malkoff do. 
hope they will listen in. 



Slumber Pass said:


> A thrower with an optic would nice. Or an 18650 light with high low. Or both those options in one light.


----------



## Dicaeopolis

That is good news. Can't wait to see. I do really like my Elzetta's. It would be nice if the Bravo fit an 18650. I think all the 2 cell lights should be bored for 18650 and just ship with a sleeve to stop CR123 rattle in there. The last Elzetta I bought was the new Alpha. Not crazy about the tint on that one, but really like the light and the fact that it takes RCR123s no problem. Love that high/low tail cap.


----------



## nmiller

A two cell alpha would be totally different than the bravo. I would love to see the Alpha stay the same with a longer body to accommodate 2x123a or 1x16650. The output can stay the same too. In single cell format it is too inefficient. Longer run time is all I want. It would make a nice small 2x123 format. Very easy to carry and very good at accomplishing what it is meant to do.


----------



## neutralwhite

Gene Malkoff mentioned the M61T current XPL LED would be replaced by the W1/W2 LED soon. 
hope elzetta uses it too somewhere or something.


----------



## novice

I would like to see them make a 1xCR123a extender, so a Bravo owner could turn it into a Charlie, if desired.


----------



## vadimax

nmiller said:


> A two cell alpha would be totally different than the bravo. I would love to see the Alpha stay the same with a longer body to accommodate 2x123a or 1x16650. The output can stay the same too. In single cell format it is too inefficient. Longer run time is all I want. It would make a nice small 2x123 format. Very easy to carry and very good at accomplishing what it is meant to do.



It might sound weird, but I like Alpha beam more than that of an AVS standard lens too.


----------



## neutralwhite

what do think on this? ;

" I do like how Malkoff lights place the beam in front of you. The gap does not allow the person at the other end to see your torsoe like Elzettas do. That is my only qualm with Elzetta lights. Hold it beside your head, look down and you can see your shoes. Malkoff, PK Design Lab, Streamlight and SureFire beams provide a beam that puts a gap between you and the beam. Hold an Elzetta in front of you and the issue is solved. But I prefer the gap when milliseconds matter. "


----------



## AstroTurf

sounds subjective to me...



neutralwhite said:


> what do think on this? ;
> 
> " I do like how Malkoff lights place the beam in front of you. The gap does not allow the person at the other end to see your torsoe like Elzettas do. That is my only qualm with Elzetta lights. Hold it beside your head, look down and you can see your shoes. Malkoff, PK Design Lab, Streamlight and SureFire beams provide a beam that puts a gap between you and the beam. Hold an Elzetta in front of you and the issue is solved. But I prefer the gap when milliseconds matter. "


----------



## vadimax

AstroTurf said:


> sounds subjective to me...



Definitely. Human eye features rather high dynamic range, but not in this case. When you face a beam of light you manage to see only this light, nothing else. Easy to check yourself: place a light in a dark environment, go and stand in its beam, look into the beam. Now tell us what do you see besides of the blinding light.

I just did it myself in the daylight (not direct sun light) inside a room. Bravo with a flood lens, runs from a 16650 cell, so it produces 600 lm at best. I see the light and some 3 ft (in diameter) pitch black area around it where I see sh... (nothing). In the dark you will see the same “nothing” from the entire direction of the beam incoming, because there the gap between ambient and direct flashlight beam intensity will be even bigger.

And those “gap between you and the beam” sound pointless in case of CQ engagement. There are walls and objects around. They reflect light and make you visible no matter what gap you enjoy.

Add to that a slightest sound or light application declares your presence and give or take your location. So the light plays a role of navigation and disorientation of an opponent first place (this is why strobes were introduced). Not making you invisible


----------



## bykfixer

Subjective? 
Anybody ever consider the perp was not alone?


----------



## desert.snake

I somehow did an extension cord to work with 16650 and compared with bravo, it's like a tactician and edcl2t from sf - different animals and application. Extended runtime would be a good upgrade, but I would like a powerful underwater light, something like the M6LT in beam shape and power, but with a more compact body.


----------



## AstroTurf

bykfixer said:


> Subjective?
> Anybody ever consider the perp was not alone?



Perhaps then the spread of an Elzetta beam would illuminate that? Or not?

Just an opinion, Jim


----------



## vadimax

bykfixer said:


> Subjective?
> Anybody ever consider the perp was not alone?



Let's imagine I am a bad guy. I see the light. I see the beam. How much "processing power" do I need to realize that this light is attached to a person and I need to attack him/her? So I just send 3 bullets in the area 1-2 ft behind the beam. If a good guy was not protected with 3A armor, his is toast...

If you want to be safe from another bad guy(s) you have to move properly, not hope on poor mental abilities of an adversary. Move properly means small new sectors when you may confront 1-2 persons at most with all of them in your line of fire. Kind of this:



Light triggers them. They definitely aware of you coming. The only advantage -- you may shortly blind them. Light never hides you. It warns everyone you are here. If an opponent has higher IQ he may even try to calculate your position behind a wall and try to shoot at your calculated location behind that wall not even seeing you (if he believes his bullets will penetrate the wall), just the beam of your flashlight (seeing two sides of a triangle you may mentally extrapolate the lines and know where the lines would cross). By the way, your "gap" will be behind that wall as well.

I just may repeat John's words: "Everyone in that room knows exactly where I am", no matter what kind of "gap" exists between me and the beam. A light is a stick with two ends: you navigate and identify targets quickly, but targets the same quickly spot you.

We may take extreme "light" -- laser which has absolutely no spill. Now watch that video on lasers and pay attention to CON #5:



"Gives away your location". Oh, yeah...


----------



## thermal guy

I agree with this. you shine a light, any light on a bad guy who truly means to do you harm and you will have bullets flying at you period. If you are holding a light on a suspect that’s stealing a tire off a car then that little dead spot “might” be of use but it’s not like and invisible shield.


----------



## bykfixer

You kick in a door. You shine your light at what? You just bursted in. You see a person, you ID friend or foe. All in about 2 seconds………friend……you continue shining light searching for persons in a 3m x 3m room. Hidden person sees your lit torsoe. All in 4-5 seconds. 
Story at 11. 

A combat veteran who did household raids in Iraq showed how the gap saved his (and his fellow Marines) life a number of times. Until he showed me that I had never noticed gap or no gap in a beam.

I'm a big fan of Elzetta lights and own a several. For certain tactical scenarios they are great. But some situations there are lights that perform in a more discreet manner.


----------



## neutralwhite

what lights would work better discreetly ? 
I love the elzetta quiet tail button.


----------



## bykfixer

A light that puts a gap between the user and the light is more discreet than one that lights up the persons torsoe. 

I like Elzettas super quiet clicky too. But if you notice with their lights there is much travel on the button before it clicks in order to serve as momentary. To make it click there is a great amount of travel to ensure if momentary is chosen there is room for error. 

Another thing I prefer with Elzetta is how quickly you can remove the tailcap versus other lights so you can swap out fuel source much faster than many lights. 

I like the slop in the threads of a hi/lo tailcap as well. You can insta-flash by pressing it a certain way and return to low by releasing. Some considered that a flaw but it actually meant to be that way.

The bodies are round for quick deploy with slots cut in each end for anti roll. They're great lights. But no gap between the user and the beam.


----------



## desert.snake

Generally interesting remark about lighting the lamp holder (man). Let's gather the available information. What should be the angle of cutoff of light so as not to see the person himself?

I don’t have Elzetta right now, but there is something else. In my understanding, there is the angle of the main beam [1], there is the angle of the spill (up to a certain number of photons in this space) [2], and there is the angle of complete cutoff of light (all that is in it, mainly reflections from the bezel) [3], dark [4]. I have photographed several lights now, 2 pcs. TIR, other reflectors. Which in your experience is that which does not illuminate the light holder?


----------



## bykfixer

Top light is 650 lumens and so is the bottom one. Bones versus an FL2 LE 

Note the bowl the top light sets on is visible. 
The bowl on the bottom photo is not. 

You are the bowl.


----------



## desert.snake

Ok, as I see, it’s all about the corners of light rays. Can you take a picture of Elsetta and that second light on a flat surface, as I did with those flashlights? It will be easier to understand

well i'm a lot thicker than this bowl


----------



## thermal guy

Well I’m a little confused here. This “gap”. It put a space between you and your target right? Well if your light is in your hand as well as you weapon isn’t it already 2-3 feet in front of you? No light I have puts light on me when I hold it out. They don’t shine backwards. Or are we saying that your holding the light by your side?


----------



## bykfixer

Both are on a flat surface DS. About a foot off the ground. The higher you hold the bigger the gap appears. 

TG, if you stand with light held beside you or under a pistol and one foot is in front of the other, that foot is lit. Regarding rifle mount if the light is 2 feet in front of you and the beam gap another 2 feet you appear about 4' further back than you really are to that other person in the room.

I get that some do not understand the virtue of a gap.


----------



## thermal guy

No I get what your saying and it kinda makes sense to me but if a bad guy is going to take a shot at you isn’t Your light going to be the target? I was military but not law enforcement so maybe I’m thinking way off here


----------



## StagMoose

I understand the concept and can see where it might be an issue, and there have been posts illustrating it. I just am not sure how frequently it is an issue vs how frequently the gap will be the saving feature. 

I have observed this and described it in another thread. If I “icepick” hold the Elzetta Bravo, if my elbow is pointing forward a bit ahead of the light, there will be an elbow shadow. 

Same stance with other lights I use often; Malkoff, Surefire... the edge of the spill is out in front away from me. 

However, if I see an armed guy or a potential threat and am not armed, my first goal will to be escape quietly or arm myself, not flashlight him. To me that just creates a target. If I am armed, then I am already prepared to use force before shining a light on them. 

I have never been in a situation that gives me the credibility to discuss this any further than that and hope not to be. But it is an interesting discussion.


----------



## polizeifritz

IMO, healthy spill that lights up close to the person holding it is invaluable for sitautional awareness. This is great for tactial purposes as it alows for peripheral vision to pick up on threats.

Further if a light is mounted to a rifle, it will likely be at least 1-2 feet forward of the torso of the person holding it therefore not illuminating the holder. All of this is moot if indoors though as usually there will be light refracting off of numerous surfaces that will light up the person holding the light whether the light has a lot of spill or not.

The above said, I have cleared buildings with nothing more than an Inforce light on the rail of a handgun and that was quite sufficient indoors. With all of the refraction of light off of various walls, I was able to clearly see the other officers who were clearing the buildings with me. Therefore if a threat was hiding in a position of advantage, they would also be able to see the same. If the light was pointed directly at the person, they would not be able to see anything other than the light assuming there is little to no ambient lighting.

It seems there is no perfect light for every scenario but personally, I am in the camp of enjoying heavy spill as when a light has a tight hot spot with minimal spill, my focus is drawn to the hotspot and I therefore am not making efficient use of my peripheral vision. I'd rather risk marginally giving away my position rather than failing to identify a target who would have otherwise been identified by my peripherals.


----------



## vadimax

Polizeifritz, is it just a random nickname or does it expose your profession?


----------



## polizeifritz

vadimax said:


> Polizeifritz, is it just a random nickname or does it expose your profession?


It definitely exposes my profession.


----------



## bykfixer

From a how to use a flashlight for stealth article. 






It's an exageration of what things really look like but it kinda highlights what I am getting at. 
Keep in mind all of this happens in a few seconds. Light on/light off to shock the eyeballs of persons at the downstream end of the photons. While potentially confusing another person bent on harming the police or soldier.





This is better at that. 
(A 6P with M61 at ear height)





Than this…… Bravo lights the chair it sits on. 





A 6P with M61 at same height as the Bravo. 
Chair not lit.


----------



## thermal guy

The bravo has a AVS head?


----------



## bykfixer

Yes, with a hi/lo tailcap. The 6P is a round head kind with M361w.


----------



## AstroTurf

wonder how an old style Elzetta would fair in your test?



bykfixer said:


> Yes, with a hi/lo tailcap. The 6P is a round head kind with M361w.


----------



## thermal guy

That was my thinking as well.I love my AVS head but it does have some spill. The old head loaded with a Malkoff should be very similar to that 6P.


----------



## Slumber

I think it's just the nature of having an optic or shallow reflector. Once light escapes the optic, some of it is immediately diffused. 
Btw, the old M60 has the same gapless beam as the AVS. I'd be curious how the Surefires with TIR look.


----------



## bykfixer

The 315 lumen Alpha with QCB bezel is better than the smooth one but not by much. The Alpha 315 reflector is really shallow. I have looked and looked at lights with various ways of sending photons forward thinking perhaps shape of reflector, bezel ring depth, type etc and I end up scratching my head. Why some have a gap and others don't baffles me. 

I have a photo of an EB1c setting on the back of my comode that shows a gap but the beam hitting the opposite wall painted with semi-gloss caused the comode to be lit so at some point I'll do one out doors with that and an EDCL-2T light. I'll also take a pic of a Pentagon eX2 with an M60T. Nice deep bezel but like slumber said, no gap. 

Elzetta is very very good at what they do. My guess is they want the beam to give the maximum area lit including near the user. There are other neat little tricks they do that others don't so I doubt it is an oversight. I just prefer a gap between me and my light if I ever found myself in a do or die scenario. But I set on a comfy sofa typing my thoughts instead so I am by no means in a position to cast aspersions on Elzetta. 

Perhaps someday I will reach out and ask them what the advantage is of having the beam up so close to the user because as I said it's probably something they did by design.


----------



## Random Dan

As a totally non-tactical user I like the wide spill. When I'm walking I can keep the light pointed forward but still glance down at my feet to see.


----------



## AstroTurf

Elzetta has a good article here: https://www.elzetta.com/blog/BeamProjection/



bykfixer said:


> The 315 lumen Alpha with QCB bezel is better than the smooth one but not by much. The Alpha 315 reflector is really shallow. I have looked and looked at lights with various ways of sending photons forward thinking perhaps shape of reflector, bezel ring depth, type etc and I end up scratching my head. Why some have a gap and others don't baffles me.
> 
> I have a photo of an EB1c setting on the back of my comode that shows a gap but the beam hitting the opposite wall painted with semi-gloss caused the comode to be lit so at some point I'll do one out doors with that and an EDCL-2T light. I'll also take a pic of a Pentagon eX2 with an M60T. Nice deep bezel but like slumber said, no gap.
> 
> Elzetta is very very good at what they do. My guess is they want the beam to give the maximum area lit including near the user. There are other neat little tricks they do that others don't so I doubt it is an oversight. I just prefer a gap between me and my light if I ever found myself in a do or die scenario. But I set on a comfy sofa typing my thoughts instead so I am by no means in a position to cast aspersions on Elzetta.
> 
> Perhaps someday I will reach out and ask them what the advantage is of having the beam up so close to the user because as I said it's probably something they did by design.


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks for the video link Astro.


----------



## AstroTurf

your welcome

i wonder though, whether any flashlight could be modified with a light shroud or snorkel, if you will, to kill the foot lighting of the light?



bykfixer said:


> Thanks for the video link Astro.


----------



## bykfixer

As an experiment I made a snoot out of a section of toilet paper roll to make one of my lights into a pure thrower. However there is absolutely no soft edge like Elzetta spoke of. It slides back n forth to change it to a factory beam or block all spill.


----------



## AstroTurf

interesting, thanks



bykfixer said:


> As an experiment I made a snoot out of a section of toilet paper roll to make one of my lights into a pure thrower. However there is absolutely no soft edge like Elzetta spoke of. It slides back n forth to change it to a factory beam or block all spill.


----------



## Random Dan

Just got a standard bezel in the mail from Elzetta so I loaded up my 18mm bravo body with a Malkoff M361N. The high/low tailcap works perfectly with the multimode drop in and the highest mode with tailcap on low is a bit dimmer than the lowest mode with the tailcap on high. Makes for a highly versatile setup and might become my go-to bombproof 18650 light.


----------



## thermal guy

Yep my 361’s work great with my elzetta’s hi/lo tail. But not as most know with Malkoff’s hi/lo ring. It’s weird because they both have the same resistor setting🤔


----------



## Johnnyh

I’ve got my 361 in a bored out Bravo. On an 18650, the 361 only puts out one low level with a loosened tail cap and the normal three levels when tightened. On two primary 123’s I get the full 6 levels. Must be voltage is not enough from the 18650?


----------



## bykfixer

Today I needed a light to peer into a dark cavity next to a roadway while I was in bright sunshine. 

I slid my wrist strap on the Bones over my wrist and lit up the dark cavity well enough to see it was about 20' deep and headed toward the roadway. 
Yikes. 
That road has a lane closed now until the cavity is filled. 

The Bones was perfect for that.


----------



## neutralwhite

nice. 
I hope Elzetta comes out with a new kind of bones in September, or something 18650 to replace it. 



bykfixer said:


> Today I needed a light to peer into a dark cavity next to a roadway while I was in bright sunshine.
> 
> I slid my wrist strap on the Bones over my wrist and lit up the dark cavity well enough to see it was about 20' deep and headed toward the roadway.
> Yikes.
> That road has a lane closed now until the cavity is filled.
> 
> The Bones was perfect for that.


----------



## bykfixer

I wonder if they are coming out with another more basic light like the Bones. An Alpha sized Bones for example. Maybe a Delta with dual fuel capability?


----------



## thermal guy

I Wouldn’t mind a AA with elzetta’s build.


----------



## bykfixer

Agreed. A double A would definitely be one I'd purchase.


----------



## euroken

You can get the charlie body and 18mm to 14mm sleeve...or bravo body with 18mm to 14mm sleeve+spacer


----------



## neutralwhite

is elzetta on par with the likes of MODLITE / CLOUD DEFENSIVE? 
the price of those compared with Elzetta are quite a good Bit more.


----------



## euroken

neutralwhite said:


> is elzetta on par with the likes of MODLITE / CLOUD DEFENSIVE?
> the price of those compared with Elzetta are like double.



I think they are trying to provide 'premium' line of products for a specific market (just as Surefires), but seems a bit ridiculous. Malkoff's and Elzetta made their names with quality/versatility/durability aspects and I don't see modlite/cloud defensive doing any better...are they all made in USA?

They also seem to indicate some compatibility with Surefire weapon lights...


----------



## thermal guy

euroken said:


> You can get the charlie body and 18mm to 14mm sleeve...or bravo body with 18mm to 14mm sleeve+spacer



Well yes and I actually do this with my M61NLLLL. But she’s BIG.


----------



## euroken

thermal guy said:


> Well yes and I actually do this with my M61NLLLL. But she’s BIG.



Yeah, that would make sense with the 18mm based bodies. They do have Malkoff based AA lights but not from Elzetta that I know of...


----------



## bykfixer

Not yet, but hopefully a double a version is coming. 300+ lumens would not be improbable from a 2aa.


----------



## Whitelight1

bykfixer said:


> Not yet, but hopefully a double a version is coming. 300+ lumens would not be improbable from a 2aa.



Yes I would buy one. It would be one tough AA light.


----------



## neutralwhite

a flat white W1/W2 - bones or bravo would be nice !


----------



## neutralwhite

can a M61T fit in the ZFL M60? 
thanks.


----------



## Random Dan

neutralwhite said:


> can a M61T fit in the ZFL M60?
> thanks.



It cannot. The elzetta body is shaped to fit exactly the standard m60/1 and not the larger m61t. Plus the bezel opening would be too small unless you turned it out.


----------



## neutralwhite

I thought so. thanks RD. 



Random Dan said:


> It cannot. The elzetta body is shaped to fit exactly the standard m60/1 and not the larger m61t. Plus the bezel opening would be too small unless you turned it out.


----------



## GoVegan

There are zero tough AA tactical lights on the market. If Elzetta released a 1AA Cree XP-L2 150-180 lumen (with lithium or Eneloops) light I'd certainly want one, my only hope would be for a recessed/protected tailcap option.

I think this would sell like hotcakes.


----------



## AstroTurf

GoVegan said:


> There are zero tough AA tactical lights on the market. If Elzetta released a 1AA Cree XP-L2 150-180 lumen (with lithium or Eneloops) light I'd certainly want one, my only hope would be for a recessed/protected tailcap option.
> 
> I think this would sell like hotcakes.



Have you visited Malkoff’s website?

Or perhaps HDS?

True, Elzetta does not make a Tough AA Tactical Light, but others do.


----------



## GoVegan

AstroTurf said:


> Have you visited Malkoff’s website?
> 
> Or perhaps HDS?
> 
> True, Elzetta does not make a Tough AA Tactical Light, but others do.



You might want to re-read what I wrote. 
BTW yes I have an MDC SHO and a couple of HDS lights.

[Edit]
Well I guess you could add a 2AA body to my MDC SHO, or a 2AA body to my HDS EDC LE but most people including me want 1AA size, which is what I meant.


----------



## AstroTurf

GoVegan said:


> You might want to re-read what I wrote.
> BTW yes I have an MDC SHO and a couple of HDS lights.
> 
> [Edit]
> Well I guess you could add a 2AA body to my MDC SHO, or a 2AA body to my HDS EDC LE but most people including me want 1AA size, which is what I meant.



I read it...

Malkoff single aa body on the way for my vme housed M30.

No tougher than that. Also has a shrouded switch.

Sayin no more, Jim


----------



## thermal guy

Lol ouch! So much for trying to help out😁😁😁😁 tough crowd.


----------



## StagMoose

Maybe the Malkoff MDC 1AA isn’t Tactical??....


----------



## AstroTurf

ya know...

i think you're right.

it needs a better name, like?

bodyguard, aaalpha, or pikachu blaster?!?

LOLz



StagMoose said:


> Maybe the Malkoff MDC 1AA isn’t Tactical??....


----------



## StagMoose

I’d love one that put out a little more light, but it does pretty well with what it puts out and runs for an hour.


----------



## bykfixer

I think Malkoffs are made with police use in mind. Being there are many layers of law enforcement from the beat cop to special ops, yeah I'd say they are potentially tactical lights. 

I like the 1aa mdc with a 361, but if a 1aa Elzetta was a one setting light as bright as an mdc on high, I'm in. Hi/lo tailcap would be a bonus. Aspherical like the Bones? Works for me. A 2aa would work for me as well. Nearly Alpha bright in a 2aa package would be sweet. Again, hi/lo tailcap as an option would be awesome. 

I have Pelican 2350 and 2360 lights so I'd be used to the Elzetta stout size if they do make them some day.


----------



## nmiller

Spent a week or so with the Alpha 315 as my EDC. I forgot how much I liked these lights. Picked up a 415 today. 315 is cooler with a slight rosy tint to it. 415 is slight warmer and is yellowish. Surprisingly the 315 has a smaller hotspot. I’m going to check the throw tonight. The 315 kind of reminds me of a nichia. I’m a bigger fan of the 415 because it appears warmer.

I do have a couple questions. My searching skills appear to be inadequate. For those of you who replaced the o-ring in the head, what size did you use? I’m referring to the o-ring used to keep the optics from cracking. Also, I washed the 415 off and water got into the head. I remember reading about this. Is it from over tightening the bezel? Thanks!


----------



## bykfixer

You should notice better throw from the 415. Much better. The 315 was a lot more floody. 

I use new o'rings from Elzetta. Don't know the size. 
I have two 315 lumen ones. Both arrived with the edge of the optic already cracked. My thought was they over tightened at the factory. It's kind of a crap shoot really. Over tighten, cracked optic (and possiblity for water intrusion). Under tighten and possible water intrusion. 

I just tighten it until it puts up a fight if you know what I mean. With a fairly loose grip of thumb and forefinger twist until my finger tries to slip. Then stop.


----------



## nmiller

I expect the 415 to throw much further. I was surprised when I saw the 315 hotspot was smaller. Any idea if they changed the optic in the 415, or is it just the led? The 315 I have seems to have more throw than I remember. I’m wondering if the 315 has a 415 optic in it? 

Sounds like I tightened mine the same way. I will monitor it for water intrusion. 

Did your elzetta O-rings come from the kit they offer?


----------



## bykfixer

If I recall correct, yes. The small one. I replaced it when swapping a QCB bezel ring onto it instead of the standard bezel ring it came with. 

The 415 one I have was the copper clad one so I used it a few nights and stashed it away.


----------



## Random Dan

Trying out the cryos standoff grip tail cap on my 18650 , bravo/M361N. I like it :thumbsup:


----------



## nmiller

Nice looking setup. I didn't realize there were other tail caps that fit an elzetta light. 

Update on the 315 vs. 415: The 415 definitely throws further. I still like both lights. I decided to put the flood lens in the 315. The flood lens in the 315 is great for close up work and clearing rooms.


----------



## bykfixer

That was the original intention of the 315 nm. Many thought it should be a back up to the Bravo and hated the Alpha 315. The 415 is more suited as a back up where the 315 was meant for QCB roles. 

I may try the flooder lens on my 315. Probably really accels for the intended task with that lens.


----------



## nmiller

It really does. Wall to wall coverage with the flood lens. It's a lot of light and easy on the eyes too.


----------



## JacquesDP

I enjoyed my 315 Alpha immensely, it was a great all-purpose light.


----------



## nmiller

I’ve been carrying it more. I went back to the standard optic and put the flood in the 415. For now I will stick with this setup. I need another high/low switch.


----------



## bykfixer

Speaking of hi/lo switch, there is enough slack in the threads where you can momentary high mode while it is on low. 

With it almost twisted to high, pressing the tailcap without pushing the button will cause it to turn on high until you release it. I asked Elzetta if that was intentional and the answer was yes.


----------



## nmiller

I'm impressed they did that intentionally. It is a nice feature.


----------



## Random Dan

I'm still not convinced it was intentional and not just sloppy threads that they discovered were a feature


----------



## Grizzman

I'm in agreement with Dan, that's it's likely just a happy accident in the design.


----------



## thermal guy

Well planned or not. It’s a great feature 😁


----------



## neutralwhite

Thoughts?; 


*Q*: hi thanks, I hear more about Elzetta and Malkoff on here.​are they a better Tactical EDC/Gun light than Modlite & Cloud Defensive?.I see the differences in prices too where Modlite and Cloud are like double the price of an Elzetta. thanks.

___________________________________________________________


*REPLY*: No, IMO, the Elzetta does not hold a candle to Modlite or Cloud Defensive as a weaponlight. 
The Modlites are just newer and smaller production numbers and thus more expensive. 
As a weaponlight, it is a better tool than the Elzetta. 
I dont think a single output head is a good EDC light, though. The Elzetta is not especially high output or long range at all and is a handheld light you can ghetto convert to a weaponlight in a ring mount. 
A Scout mounting system or other dedicated weapon mount is a better choice. Elzetta s really slightly heavy for what it is and even the spot beam is more like a flood... VERY short throw distance. Also consider the Modlite has a charger and two batteries in a kit for the price. Unfortunately, you cant save money NOT buying a charger and batteries. I now own 4 lithium ion chargers because of that, LOL.

I own LOTS of weaponlights and three Modlites, currently. Im not a fan of the current Arisaka/Malkoff 100% spot beam heads that are the only thing available nowdays. I own 3 Arisaka lights at the moment, and wish they had some heads with some spill like they used to.I dont use 123 cells in anything but handgun lights and IR lasers at this point. I have no qualms with rechargable liion weaponlights. 18650, 18350, 16650, 16340, they are all good to me. You have to know what batteries to buy and what batteries to stay sway from, but that is the same for any cell of any type (Keeppower is usually the safe and reasonably priced choice).For the average officer or self defense civilian the advantage in being able to top off a light with a fresh battery and recharge the partially used one far outweighs the long shelf life of 123 cells. Far too many people will not swap out a partially used set of 123s for a fresh pair and limit battery life. Its easy and free to swap in a fresh rechargable. If you were part of a SWAT unit you would get free 123 batteries and swap out with fresh after every call out. For everyone else, rechargeables just make way more sense. There are no real drawbacks other than the need to pop in fresh batteries every year for weapons stored in climate controlled environments and every few months for weapons stored in a vehicle.People afraid to go to rechargables are dinosaurs like the guys who railed against Aimpoints because iron sights were more reliable 20 years ago. The days of the 123 cell lights are coming to a rapid end, just like AA lights have been eclipsed. Might as well get acquainted with the new tech.I am very much NOT as big of a stickler for maximum reliability in handhelds as I am for weaponlights. I have carried dozens of handhelds and currently carry a Streamlight HLX as my duty/EDC but have carried Elzetta, Surefire, Fenix, Olight, EagleTac, Malkoff, Streamlight, Primary Arms, Blackhawk... you name it, I carried it as a police patrol officer, a detective, and off duty. IMO a defensive handheld that can be used as a backup handgun light should have a temporary activation that starts at full power and has a low power available in the UI. It should have both momentary and constant on options. It should have a balance between the spot and spill and be neither a flood nor spot light. EDC off-duty for me means a small light and pocketable. The Elzetta is not especially high outout, long throwing, small, lightweight, or inexpensive. It is rugged, but rugged only means so much to me. Within a year I have usually either lost my handheld light or gotten bored and bought something new. The Elzetta is one of those handhelds that has been eclipsed by my 18650 handhelds. Relegated to house drawer or center console emergency light status. I would not buy one new or used. For a "tactical" handheld you want over 500 lumens and over 15,000 candela IMO. Really, over 20,000 candela is preferable and over 600 lumens output. My current carry piece, a Streamlight HLX, cost me under $100, puts out 1000 lumens, and 27,600 candela. The 10 tap configurable UI gives me the levels I need, though I wish the low was lower, the head smaller, and the weight less. When I lost one after leaving it in a suspect vehicle, I actually bought a second one. A rare thing for me to do. Its not the toughest light in the world, but should last a couple years till something better comes out. I also have an HLX rail mount on a budget rifle and reccome them to officers on a budget getting a first weaponlight. Just dont use their tape switch.


----------



## bykfixer

Sounds like someone with a lot of experience. If he doesn't prefer Elzetta so be it.


----------



## nmiller

Same feelings here. You like what you like. For the price difference I would expect the others to be nicer. However, I would think all that candela would be blinding making entry into a dark home or building. Outside, give me more candela.


----------



## euroken

Opinions of many have flared up and down over the years. With that said, I feel Elzettas and Malkoffs have survived through some critical reasoning many times over. Modlites are not the first and the only weapon based light system out there that has a great fan base...however, this doesn't take anything away from established company's like Elzetta and Malkoff.


----------



## GoVegan

Slumber Pass said:


> Use a sheet of paper cut to the length of the batteries, and reduce the width rolled around them until the batteries barely slide in. I do this to almost all lights to eliminate rattle. You can put a "Reward If Found" note with your phone number on it.



Slumber Pass, this post was from the Surefire Tactician thread, however I have a question about your Bravo(?) so asking here.

In your 2nd photo, there appears to be deep grooves etched into the end of the body at the tailcap contact point. Is this the result of using the High/Low tailcap with the resister pin in it?


----------



## nmiller

So, I decided I like the 312 Alpha better. I ended up picking up a second one. It turns out tint is very similar but one has more throw than the other. The 312 I bought here on cpf has a similar beam profile to the 412 while my ebay purchase has a floodier beam. Anyone know why? I’m thinking the optics were changed from the 312 to the 412 and one of my 312 actually has 412 optics in it. My understanding is the 312 is an xpg and the 412 is an xpl. I would think the xpg would throw further, but what do I know! Either way, still like both of them.


----------



## nmiller

I asked Elzetta and they said it’s all in the led. This is interesting to me. I wonder what the difference is in mine. One was made in 2014 and the other in 2016.


----------



## 325addict

You can also use a pairr of 17500s in it, which I do all the time since 10 years in my SF C3 Centurion. These have 1100-1200mAh.




twl said:


> If you won't be using it as a weaponlight, you can use a pair of 14500 in it, if you get the 3-cell model.
> 
> The reason that no serious weaponlight-rated lights use the li-ion rechargeables is that the recoil can wreck the battery's protection IC, and that compromises the light.
> Serious lights don't use li-ion rechargeables if they are intended for combat roles.
> That's why Surefire doesn't do it either.
> But you a get around it with a 3-cell model and a pair of 14500. Only 750mah, though. But it will give you the recharging ability, and give you the right voltage.


----------



## thermal guy

Any new news on what elzetta’s coming out with this year?


----------



## AstroTurf

It could be an improved bones, as they have been on back order for a while now.


----------



## neutralwhite

I was thinking the same. 
a lot of new improved along the entire line I guess. 
wouldn't mind a new bones. 



AstroTurf said:


> It could be an improved bones, as they have been on back order for a while now.


----------



## neutralwhite

bones back in stock .


----------



## AstroTurf

Thanks!!!


----------



## neutralwhite

nothing heard from Elzetta on September Fall releases. 
anyone know anything ? 
thanks.


----------



## kj2

Elzetta.. do they still exist?


----------



## AstroTurf

kj2 said:


> Elzetta.. do they still exist?



They do in my world, 2 alphas, 2 bravos, and 2 charlies...


----------



## thermal guy

kj2 said:


> Elzetta.. do they still exist?



There still in the game. Elzetta is probably one of if not the toughest lights around. I’d say even more so then my Malkoff’s. And the availability to run Malkoff stuff in them is icing on the cake. They are one damn solid light.And the bravo is one of the smallest 2X123 hosts you can get.


----------



## neutralwhite

I want to get another bones , but I think I'll wait to see what comes out of the new releases.


----------



## nmiller

I've heard their new line will be produced with rechargable batteries being the primary source of power. I do not know if primaries will work with them. I also heard that they are making something more for the EDC crowd. I don't have any other details. Anxiously waiting.


----------



## thermal guy

Boy if they switch to rechargeable batteries there changing the companies cliental.


----------



## nmiller

I’m curious to see what they have developed. I hope they stick the neutral leds. Overall, I don’t know if they are trying to change their market, but I was led to believe no rechargeable support could lead to huge problems for them. My guess is the drivers will be optimized for rechargeables but able to run on primaries. Seems like a lot of brands are going to a dual fuel set up.


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks. 



nmiller said:


> I've heard their new line will be produced with rechargable batteries being the primary source of power. I do not know if primaries will work with them. I also heard that they are making something more for the EDC crowd. I don't have any other details. Anxiously waiting.


----------



## bykfixer

Bones does dual fuel. Don't know why they couldn't incorparate that into the Alpha, Bravo and Charlie aside from a change in barrel ID. 
It would not surprise me to see a USB-able light too. But to change from being able to use primaries would be a surprise to me. For handheld the protected cell is fine but for attached to a flash/pow instrument there's always that chance of the violent reaction tripping the protection circuit leading to insta-dark in a life/death situation. And Elzetta's main market has always been folks who put their lives on the line nearly every day. 

Now one thing folks do not necessarily consider; when you build something that can survive being dropped onto concrete from 3000 feet, there aren't many repeat buyers. In other words buy it once, use it from now on. SureFire and Maglite dealt with the same issue at one point. So Elzetta may be in the same boat as SureFire and Maglite in terms of new customers. Hard to remain viable when you build things that last forever without a steady stream of new customers.


----------



## nmiller

My understanding is that the bones is not fully regulated unless you use 2xcr123a. I think the new lights will be the opposite. Fully regulated under 18650 cell. The light will have over discharge protection so an unprotected cell can be used. Use primaries in emergency situations only. This is just a guess though. 

My source is Elzetta themselves on the other info. They also told me the Bravo, Charlie etc should stay in production because of government contracts. I just hope we see the new products soon! I think the release has been delayed because of Covid.


----------



## Random Dan

More rechargable support sounds good to me! I hope they also provide some more options for UI/number of modes


----------



## thermal guy

An Elzetta keychain light would be awesome!!


----------



## neutralwhite

trying to save my PayPal balance for an elzetta.
hurry elzetta, hurry!.


----------



## nmiller

I'm excited too. Not sure what I want from them other than a neutral tint.


----------



## neutralwhite

same here. neutral would be good again, a newer LED.


nmiller said:


> I'm excited too. Not sure what I want from them other than a neutral tint.


----------



## neutralwhite

right, maybe already known, but elzetta have mentioned that an updated / new bones as well as an EDC is coming very soon as well as a few other new things. 
a change across the board. 

theyre not saying much but in the conversation, that came out. 
look out !
thanks.


----------



## nmiller

Thanks! Did you talk to them or did they announce something?


----------



## neutralwhite

spoke with them. just got to keep a good look-out. 



nmiller said:


> Thanks! Did you talk to them or did they announce something?


----------



## nmiller

Will do. I’ve been patient to this point. What’s a few more weeks or months.


----------



## thermal guy

Wouldn’t mind a thrower from them as well. The AVS does a pretty good job at that but just saying 😁


----------



## nmiller

A dedicated thrower would be nice to see.


----------



## neutralwhite

true. I think we are very close.



nmiller said:


> Will do. I’ve been patient to this point. What’s a few more weeks or months.


----------



## nmiller

I hope you are right. I know elzetta doesn't have the biggest following here, but these new products are the most anticipated release for flashlights this year. For me at least.


----------



## neutralwhite

me too. its going to be good from what they told me. intriguing elzetta is. 



nmiller said:


> I hope you are right. I know elzetta doesn't have the biggest following here, but these new products are the most anticipated release for flashlights this year. For me at least.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I haven't lucked into a Special Edition in years.


----------



## nmiller

The new release isn't a special edition. It's a new line of products. My understanding is if it weren't for government contracts the AVS line would be discontinued in favor for the new lights.


----------



## neutralwhite

hopefully they'll come along with a special edition too. 
elzetta could surely do with some new stuff.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Yeah, Elzetta has few models and they're not constantly fiddling with things. That's the great thing about Elzetta. But it's also the worst thing about Elzetta!


----------



## nmiller

Well said. It's hard to criticize the AVS line. Elzetta themselves said it is outdated, but I think it still performs well compared to current lights. Regardless, it be nice to see more new stuff from them.


----------



## thermal guy

Man I love my AVS head. Doesn’t seem outdated to me.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I suppose if they're "outdated" that's probably why they appeal to me! I'm not Luddite, I love technology. But I don't love chasing marketing trends. It seems lights have moved towards having many modes (sometimes 8 or 9!) and being rechargeable. For the most part neither of those are suitable for my needs. There's certainly a place for maximum output but for me that's mostly just for weapon lights. While I won't turn down more lumens I find runtime to be more important, and durability trumps everything else for me. My lights get used for EDC and around the house but I'm into hiking and camping; there's no room for anything that can't take hard knocks, water, snow, etc.


----------



## bykfixer

Outdated or not the Bones is a pretty good flashlight in my view.


----------



## neutralwhite

bones out of stock again, so soon.


----------



## Voider of Warranties

Several years ago a friend asked me which light in my collection was the best "all-around." I didn't have an answer, so I made it my duty to come up with one. I bought a low/high tail cap for an 18650/2x18350-bored Elzetta Bravo, and I had the answer. A triple-fuel 2-speed bomb-proof EDC that could run for many hours or reach out like a Charlie. And if you turn the tail cap just barely into the low setting, it mimics the Surefire UI wherein a soft press results in a low output and a harder one jumps it into high gear.


----------



## neutralwhite

elzetta is quiet. nothing heard yet on release's . 
last update was releasing in the fall ( September )


----------



## AstroTurf

of which year?!?

LOLz



neutralwhite said:


> elzetta is quiet. nothing heard yet on release's .
> last update was releasing in the fall ( September )


----------



## adamlau

I have been waiting for the new logo Bones to restock for some time now. Most dealers seem to only have the old logo Bones on hand. No thank you  . And please, Elzetta: Provide the Bones with a fully supported Rotary/High-Low tailcap option!


----------



## GMT2330

The good: Bravo and Bones lumens increase to 850. Charlie lumens increase to 1350.

The bad: Alpha is not available at the moment.:shrug:

The ugly: What look like 4 year old Jetbeam designs reappear as the G-line but for more $$$.:mecry::help:


----------



## AstroTurf

G-Line lights are definitely offshore products... No Thanks!!!


----------



## GMT2330

G-line has no mention of potted electronics and no acrylic lens. :sigh:


----------



## neutralwhite

reminds me of a Jetbeam. 
also the page layout seems quite offshore too now lol...


----------



## thermal guy

The new Charlie with 1300 + lumens is rated at 330 meters of throw now. Up over 100 from last version. Nice.


----------



## Rob Babcock

AstroTurf said:


> G-Line lights are definitely offshore products... No Thanks!!!





GMT2330 said:


> G-line has no mention of potted electronics and no acrylic lens. :sigh:




Well, it does appear to made offshore (ie probably China). On the plus side, it does look very vintage JETBeam-like! Those were some of my favorite lights! I like the simplicity of the new Elzetta entry level lights and the price is pretty good. If they're even at the level of an older JETBeam or a modern Olight then I'll maybe pick one up!






GMT2330 said:


> The good: Bravo and Bones lumens increase to 850. Charlie lumens increase to 1350.
> 
> The bad: Alpha is not available at the moment.:shrug:
> 
> The ugly: What look like 4 year old Jetbeam designs reappear as the G-line but for more $$$.:mecry::help:



I'm pretty happy with my current Alpha, Bravo & Charlie lights! Still, as long as the upgraded lights are still going to be standard we should be able to just buy a new head for our Bravo & Charlie lights, theoretically saving a few bucks. I say theoretically because leftover parts tend to turn into new lights but hey, that's not a bad thing!


----------



## bykfixer

G-Line AA ordered.


----------



## GMT2330

It’ll be sad if the Alpha 415 has to die because it can’t compete with the entry level G-edc-rcr with its 510 lumens. 
I like the Jetbeam designs too but I would rather have an Alpha.


----------



## thermal guy

So is the G-line made in the USA?


----------



## GMT2330

No, it’s “globally sourced” according to Elzetta.


----------



## GMT2330

I have never bought an Elzetta light. (I have bought a few HDS & Malkoff though)

When I heard they were going to introduce some new edc lights I was really looking forward to some Elzetta designed and engineered products. I don’t think the G-line is what I’m looking for. They’re a bit disappointing really.


----------



## knucklegary

Anyone know what NW emitter is installed in G-line?

Waiting to see Alphalfa upgrade :thumbsup:


----------



## thermal guy

Ya I’m not judging especially as I know nothing about the new lineup but I was really hoping for and elzetta style build. Made in USA running on 1-2AA.


----------



## coffeecup66

G-LINE = Gosh, Looks Incredibly Not Exciting...


----------



## Rob Babcock

coffeecup66 said:


> G-LINE : Gosh, Looks Incredibly Not Exciting...




I'm not 100% sure what they're aiming for with the G-line. Again, they do greatly resemble the old JETBeams that I really loved (and lamented when they went away). But I'm not sure who will buy them. Budge buyers will likely go with Fenix, Olight, Steamlight, Maglite, etc etc. Hardcore Elzetta fans like me might pick up a G-light just to see but it's kind of outside of what they're known for.

I really would like to see the Alpha upgraded in output but my Alpha is pretty old and I still have no complaints about the light produced.


----------



## nmiller

I have no words for the G line. Not what I was expecting at all. Not sure what Elzetta was thinking either. Oh well. Fits in with a wonderful 2020. 

Nice to see the upgrade on the bravo and Charlie models. Not sure if I will be purchasing any of them.


----------



## coffeecup66

Rob Babcock said:


> I'm not 100% sure what they're aiming for with the G-line. Again, they do greatly resemble the old JETBeams that I really loved (and lamented when they went away). But I'm not sure who will buy them. Budge buyers will likely go with Fenix, Olight, Steamlight, Maglite, etc etc. Hardcore Elzetta fans like me might pick up a G-light just to see but it's kind of outside of what they're known for.
> 
> I really would like to see the Alpha upgraded in output _*but my Alpha is pretty old*_ and I still have no complaints about the light produced.



How old would that be Rob ?


----------



## GMT2330

Jetbeam jet I mk and jet II mk have similar output levels to these new lights too.
I think they are good lights but not what you expect from Elzetta.

I want them to be able to survive being chucked out of a helicopter even if that’s something I would never do!


----------



## bigburly912

GMT2330 said:


> Jetbeam jet I mk and jet II mk have similar output levels to these new lights too.
> I think they are good lights but not what you expect from Elzetta.
> 
> I want them to be able to survive being chucked out of a helicopter even if that’s something I would never do!



Or dropped in a puddle without dying a horrible death. I’d like to know who these “numerous people who asked us to make cheaper lights” are. I absolutely hope they sell millions of these but definitely not what I wanted to see here unless it helps the overall brand. Good luck to them.


----------



## knucklegary

bykfixer said:


> G-Line AA ordered.



The only guy here, so far, with the kahunas to buy one!


----------



## bykfixer

I like the original Bones logo too.


----------



## Rob Babcock

coffeecup66 said:


> How old would that be Rob ?



I can't say the exact date but I think it was from the first gen. Mine has the minor flicker on LOW that all the early ones had and that seems to have been resolved (it doesn't bother me enough to have ever bothered to send back for a warranty fix).


----------



## coffeecup66

Rob Babcock said:


> I can't say the exact date but I think it was from the first gen. Mine has the minor flicker on LOW that all the early ones had and that seems to have been resolved (it doesn't bother me enough to have ever bothered to send back for a warranty fix).



Right, so would you say 5-6 years or more like 10-12 years old ?


----------



## GMT2330

Alpha first went on sale in 2014 I think. It had 315 v.floody lumens back then.
Somewhere in this thread will be the date of the 415 lumen upgrade.


----------



## Rob Babcock

coffeecup66 said:


> Right, so would you say 5-6 years or more like 10-12 years old ?




I wish I could say!I can't remember *not owning it*! For sure over six because I had it before I moved to MN (and later to SD, ID & MT) so maybe closer to 10. But honestly I can't say, sorry! Wish I could recall.


----------



## coffeecup66

Rob Babcock said:


> I wish I could say!I can't remember *not owning it*! For sure over six because I had it before I moved to MN (and later to SD, ID & MT) so maybe closer to 10. But honestly I can't say, sorry! Wish I could recall.



No problemo Rob, thanks for the responses. I'm trying to get a general idea of the "real life" durability of Elzettas. I know they're tough cookies but owner's word is the bottom line.


Hey GMT2330, I think you're right about sales launch in 2014 : http://flashlightguide.com/2014/07/review-elzetta-alpha-modular-flashlight/


Cheers.


----------



## Rob Babcock

Mine has been durable, no doubt! I keep it in my HPG Kit Bag and use it for camping. It has taken some falls onto rocks, had stuff thrown on it, subjected to temps from -25 to 110 F and has held up fine. The light engine is potted and the main thing that could wear (the switch) is a fairly cheap and easy replacement. It gets treated a bit rougher than most of my lights. I even used at as a WML on my CZ Scorpion for awhile.


----------



## AstroTurf

Curious as to what the new avs cri is.


----------



## bykfixer

Once upon a time a fellow called PK decided to branch out military grade SureFire and take a stab at the consumer light market using a double a fuel source. It was called Icon and was met with great skeptisism. "Potato peeler", "starts on low what is that crap", "made where?" Now if the battery did not leak those unordinary lights are still going. They could be found in Target or Radio Shack and sold about as well as he expected. 

Now Elzetta is taking a stab at the consumer market. Timing is everything so in a crowded stadium things may or may not work out for Elzetta. Knowing how PK liked to have self defense in mind with his Icons I dismissed the 1 cell Rogue is a potato peeler notion and noticed that thing makes a great nun-chuk that doubles as a flashlight. So knowing how Elzetta has incorparated a few little seen touches to the (now called) Z-Line I wondered what did they go for in their consumer line called G-Line. And if they did colaborate with the folks at JetBeam, perhaps something cool happened. 

Looking at the description of the AA light I noted USB rechargeable and comes with a rechargeable battery, yet can run off an ordinary Rayovac. Can it run off a 10440? They say not to because the light will get really hot. No mention of "poof". It says type 3 anodize and IP7/8 at 2 meters. Not X8 so in my experience dust gets into places water does not. 

Looking at photos it appears it may be like a U2 with it's detents for particular output amounts. In this case perhaps 4 total. Twist from off to position 1, 2, or 3. Twist back to off instead of a clicky switch. Glass lens? It did not say. But showing 8k CD gave me the idea output will be pretty broad, but not a flooder. The tail end looks like it can incorparate a wrist strap if one chooses. It has what appears to be a threaded hole in the center as well. I wondered if that is so it can be fastened to a camera tripod and used like a work light. The clip? Eh, hard to imagine that thing being as sturdy as one that screws to the body. Yet it should pop right off instead of requiring a tool to remove it. Is the battery itself the usb rechargeble type or is there a hidden point on the light? I could not tell from the photos. 

Will it be as tough as the "Z-Line"? I doubt it. Yet it appears that it would be a pretty practical light. I look forward to trying out the EDC AA from Elzetta. It may replace the fabled Pelican 2350 as my favorite 1x AA flashlight.


----------



## GMT2330

I like your positivity bykfixer. It would do us all some good to be a bit more like you. I look forward to your thoughts when you receive your light. To be fair though having read the Icon Rogue review, Selfbuilt did prove you could use it to peel a carrot.


----------



## bykfixer

It also did pretty good at slicing a block of cheddar. 

Edit: Looked in the accessories section at Elzetta and saw that they will have USB chargeable batteries soon. Double A and RCR's with it's own mico USB charge point. Sold in pairs for $8/pr. No stated capacity. 

And the EDC line have "hardened" glass lenses.
End edit.


----------



## JPA261

Well I’m glad Elzetta is increasing the output in their Z line. I always liked their products and although I don’t use their lights compared to other lights, it’s nice to know that these lights will last a lifetime..

I am very curious how much they plan on increasing their lumens for the alpha model. Maybe 500 lumens?


----------



## bigburly912

bykfixer said:


> It also did pretty good at slicing a block of cheddar.
> 
> Edit: Looked in the accessories section at Elzetta and saw that they will have USB chargeable batteries soon. Double A and RCR's with it's own mico USB charge point. Sold in pairs for $8/pr. No stated capacity.
> 
> And the EDC line have "hardened" glass lenses.
> End edit.



I’m just glad you are manning up and going to guinea pig this thing for us. I’ve been interested but I need somebody to tell me it’s not a mistake first. : D


----------



## neutralwhite

me too. I am pretty surprised Elzetta made us wait.......just for this.
I am not so impressed. waiting like bigburly912.



bigburly912 said:


> I’m just glad you are manning up and going to guinea pig this thing for us. I’ve been interested but I need somebody to tell me it’s not a mistake first. : D


----------



## bykfixer

So stunning, so brave……


----------



## GMT2330

Elzetta Alpha 2014: 315 lumens. 
2016: 415 lumens. 
2021: 515 lumens?
500 lumens is a lot to ask from a primary cr123 without a step down driver but it can be done.
Surefire’s edcl1-t shows 500 lumens for 20-25mins then a steadily declining output according to runtime graphs posted on here.
Not so good is Surefire’s E1b MV which shows 400 lumens for 10 mins then declining output after, so even Surefire don’t get it right every time.


----------



## GMT2330

bykfixer said:


> So stunning, so brave……


Candlepowerforums, the forum that hands out bravery awards for errr........
errr.....buying a flashlight.


----------



## JPA261

I like that they are increasing light output but not compromising runtime.


----------



## GMT2330

The original 900 lumen Charlie could stay in regulation for around 55 mins.
Imagine 1350 for the best part of an hour!


----------



## peter yetman

I'd rather have 900 for 90 minutes.
P



bykfixer said:


> So stunning, so brave……




I bet you're handsome too.
P


----------



## GMT2330

peter yetman said:


> I'd rather have 900 for 90 minutes.
> P


Unfortunately in the lumen wars any mode that lasts for 90 minutes in full regulation is now considered a medium mode.
(Even Malkoff m61 runtime is 1.25hrs)


----------



## thermal guy

Ya 900 lumens for 90 minutes is pretty great. Malkoff’s M91’s or older WC’s come real close with a couple 18650’s.


----------



## peter yetman

GMT2330 said:


> Unfortunately in the lumen wars any mode that lasts for 90 minutes in full regulation is now considered a medium mode.
> (Even Malkoff m61 runtime is 1.25hrs)


Lumen Wars, Moomin Wars. Does it really matter what you call it? Medium or High, it's the same brightness.

It's time to drag out our old favourite.....
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present - Archimedes graph...........





P


----------



## GMT2330

I agree with you Peter runtime should be king. I was disappointed when I heard that Surefire were no longer producing the e1l.
I still think they should reintroduce it with say, 3 lumen low and 60 moomin high (but with a modern driver and MV reflector). But I don’t think they will because runtime doesn’t sell as many lights as output does. MOST people will always buy the brighter one.
The sad thing is that although 1350 lumens is impressive and will sell more lights, you will have a job perceiving the difference from the old model. It’ll have a bit more reach I guess but not as much as people think it will.


----------



## adamlau

peter yetman said:


> Archimedes graph...........


Sums it up nicely


----------



## kamote1half

These are their G lines. Elzetta says it has upgraded internals. Looks like Jetbeam will be providing them with the lights, and elzetta will just "upgrade" them.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=255699085887851&id=104651984325896

https://www.facebook.com/104651984325896/posts/255693795888380/


----------



## bykfixer

True kamote. They are not straight up JetBeam lights with an Elzetta logo. Looking at photos it appears they did however seem to begin as a JetBeam design. A very risky move on Elzettas part considering the JetBeam version can be had at a much lower cost. 

Apparently some batteries are in Elzettas hands but not posted on the site yet. (as of the 7th). I have not checked back since then. 

I did communicate with the engineer who is overseeing the project and he assured me there are Elzetta improvements galore to the original design (and implimentations) that have proven track records. Stuff that is over my head but I feel pretty comfortable with the notion that my little $40 was well spent. 

I suppose time will tell if the "G" products at Elzetta will work out or not. If folks think back the early Elzetta projects used Malkoff modules and it took quite a while before those caught on. I figure Elzetta is going to catch a lot of flack at first. Some in the crowd have already begun tossing tomatoes. But Elzetta chose to expand their lineup in a manner that was logical to them and recent history has shown the steps they took before seemed odd to many yet panned out in the end. Perhaps this project will be successful, or perhaps not. 

Either way I'll have a pretty cool little AA flashlight in a few days and not long after that some alternatives to my Eneloops and RCR's.


----------



## thermal guy

Ya getting a bunch of slack already I see. Someone will open one up and compare it to the jetbeam to see what’s what. I’m sure of that. There not what I was hoping for but that’s fine. The way I see it it’s very unlikely that elzetta is going to tarnish there name selling a product that’s not good. There sales would take a big hit all down the line. You know how people are. So I guess time will tell.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I almost ordered a G-line light but once I started looking at the UI it's clearly not really something I want. Pity, if it had a tailcap push button and one/two modes it would be a home run.


----------



## neutralwhite

is the bones LED upgraded you think ? 
thanks.


----------



## thermal guy

Says it’s going to be.


----------



## bykfixer

Bones and Bravo to be 850.

The EDC is stuck somewhere between Kenntucky and my front porch. Dratz. Usually just a few days from buy it now and lighting my yard but there's a snag this time. Sigh.


----------



## thermal guy

Lol I’m tired disregard


----------



## Johnnyh

bykfixer said:


> Bones and Bravo to be 850.
> 
> The EDC is stuck somewhere between Kenntucky and my front porch. Dratz. Usually just a few days from buy it now and lighting my yard but there's a snag this time. Sigh.



Byk, there’s a lot of snags in shipping right now. I shipped a package from here in Upstate NY to Ohio on Nov 23 which is now on one of 70 semis at the Columbus Hub waiting to unload. According to the USPS lost-package research person, it’s all due to COVID-19 problems and a big increase in online buying.


----------



## bykfixer

I remember buying some shoes online in March and they sat in a NJ depot for like 10 days. Now that the second wave is upon us it's not surprising there's snags. That and the Christmas rush. It aint like I don't have about 344 other lights until it arrives……well actually I think it's up to 350 by now. 

Now back in October UPS lost one of my packages. I filed a claim and all that and they re-imbursed me. Last week the item was on my porch when I got home.


----------



## Owen

That 2021 Bones might be my new handheld for work. 
Can you swap out the tailcap with a SF, Malkoff, etc?


----------



## nmiller

It’s been my experience that the Elzetta bodies won’t really work with Malkoff and SF tail caps.


Has anyone seen whether they are sticking to neutral leds? Also, in an effort to less negative about these new products/upgrades, I am looking forward to see what they do with the Alpha. A neutral led with the same or more output with longer regulated output would be very nice.


----------



## neutralwhite

I am wondering what the Bones LED will be 
?


----------



## AstroTurf

I wonder whether it will have the same press fit light engine module as the Alpha?



neutralwhite said:


> I am wondering what the Bones LED will be
> ?


----------



## neutralwhite

contacted them - no reply for some days....
here, malkoff, take my money !


----------



## AstroTurf

Now you know that...

Nothing Beats an Elzetta!!!


----------



## bykfixer

The log jam is busted on my order. Yay! 

Next hurdle is the delivery person getting past the guard-bird. A mockingbird has claimed my front yard as its turf and swoops down all harie-carie style to peck unsuspecting delivery people on the head. Yikes!


----------



## AstroTurf

Anxiously awaiting your review...


----------



## adamlau

Pulled the trigger on a C333 upgrade. Now begins the wait through next month...


----------



## bykfixer

The G-Line AA has yet to arrive. It has been stuck in a warehouse since the 12th. A warehouse my coworker drives past each day but they are not allowed to hand off a package to ordinary citizens so the wait continues……


----------



## coffeecup66

bykfixer said:


> The G-Line AA has yet to arrive. It has been stuck in a warehouse since the 12th. A warehouse my coworker drives past each day but they are not allowed to hand off a package to ordinary citizens so the wait continues……



Is it coming to you via US Postal service ? (pardon my curiosity)


----------



## bykfixer

Yup. 
I spoke with folks at my local area who said they simply have more than they can handle lately due to the personell shortages from the pandemic.


----------



## coffeecup66

bykfixer said:


> Yup.
> I spoke with folks at my local area who said they simply have more than they can handle lately due to the personell shortages from the pandemic.



That's what I was wondering about : how postal services around the world were coping in this "brutal" end-of-year period. Thanks for the info.

Also, for what it's worth, I must admit I too am G-LINE curious !


----------



## peter yetman

Heathier than being G-String curious.
Or maybe not.
P


----------



## Owen

coffeecup66 said:


> That's what I was wondering about : how postal services around the world were coping in this "brutal" end-of-year period. Thanks for the info.



Around here, they were coping fine until I placed a couple of orders. 
Then everything instantly ground to a halt. Sorry, everybody!


----------



## bykfixer

My favorite vape juice supplier has switched to FedEx 2 day now instead of USPS priority. 

My package finally left the postal service warehouse an hour from my home by automobile……yesterday at 5:30pm. 
27 hours later it has yet to reach my local post office. 

I was thinking "is the carrier walking……on crutches?" ……


----------



## thermal guy

Lol I have a package that’s been stuck in NJ for 5 days. I’m in NY. Could of walked and picked it up by now😁


----------



## adamlau

Since 12/3 for three items and 12/18 for one. Domestic inventory. Both shipped via USPS


----------



## bykfixer

I suspect my light was handed off to a snail. Poor snail. 

Nah seriously I read that some things took place at USPS regarding budget cuts in late summer and fall have resulted in a break down of their parcel sector due to lack of bodies during the increase and remaining people being quarenteened due to positive cases of corona virus. Apparently they have reduced the number of contractors moving parcel packages. Things are moving about as efficiently as DMV right now. Dratz!! 

Magazines and letters are still moving just peachy. Magazines are going way of the T-Rex so that part isn't as busy as a year ago. And thankfully junk mail seems to be greatly reduced. Replaced with robo-calls……

Elzetta has a 'warning' at their home page from USPS. It causes me to wonder if they'll switch carriers in 2021.

Edit: 






Yaaaaaaay!! 
Santas helpers must be pitching in.
End edit.


----------



## AstroTurf

Oh Mister P Man deliver the G,

It’s the info that we really need,

As we all wait on the fence...

So Please Oh Please... Deliver The Geeeeeeee!!!

LOLz, Jim


----------



## bykfixer

Finally……

Ok, first off the light has memory. 
- It's a twisty like the Fenix E01 or E05 where extra twists change mode. 
- Next, it tailstands. 
- It's round. So without the clip there is no anti-roll device. 3 flat places with slices taken out in between make grip of the smooth body feel natural. 
- Knurled business end and not much twist between on/off makes one hand operation easy enough. 
- Supplied o'ring thickness offers enough resistance to ensure pocket turn on or head coming off in your trouser pocket should not be an issue. 
- The supplied USB chargeable battery says 1000mAh, but it's charging. Elzetta shows on the package that a disposable has longer run time with same same output. A red lamp on the battery shows it is charging. I'll know if it turns off, turns green or what when fully charged. (I guess I could read supplied instructions? Pffft, no way dude.) edit: blue light when charged. end edit. 
- It's actually pretty small for a double A light. A bit larger than a triple a light like a Sofirn C01 or Fenix E01 and way smaller than my 'substantial' double a lights like Klarus P1A or Pelican 2350. Comfy trouser pocket carry should be an easy thing unless you wear skinny jeans. 
- Comes in a recloseable clamshell package like other Elzetta lights. 
- Like other Elzetta lights it only takes a couple of rotations for the head to come off when switching fuel sources. 
- Machine is acurate with no inkling to cross thread when reassembling. Enough lube on them to do the trick without getting sloppy. 
- The package says "made in ROC". 
- The lens is hardended glass, the body it type 3 annodized. 

- The package comes with a spare o'ring, short charger cord, wrist strap and instructions. 
- The supplied battery has a plastic dome over the tip to prevent activation. 
- Parasitic drain? I'd say no because of the mechanical nature of the switch system. But having memory causes me to say I dunno……

- The beam is cooler than the AVS system but not copy paper white. It's more like a SureFire G2x Pro if you're familiar with that. Cool with a neutral bias. (5600 to 5800kelvin?)
- PWM? If yes its only barely detectable on low using my moving ceiling fan blade check. 
- Starts on low, then medium, then high, which surprised me coming from a tactical light company. 
- Probably my favorite feature of this light besides memory is the mode spacing where 1.5 lumen low should be good for getting around at 2am nature calls, 30 lumen medium should provide plenty of general purpose or shadow busting lighting after dark with a 150 lumen high beam option.
- If you look hard enough there's probably stuff to not like such as the 1.5 lumen low being too bright for some, not enough for others. 
- The beam shape reminds me of the 415 lumen Alpha with a big ole spot with obvious cutoff to a fairly bright spill so you get reach when you need it and your peripheral area well lit without killing edges of your night adapted vision. 

- The slide on clip may bother some. I'd rather have seen it screwed to the light but probably won't leave it on the light anyway. Reversable would be nice but it aint so we have to live with that. 
- Stiffness is good in my view and easily slides over the top of the pocket. 

So that's about it for now. A lot going on today so I'll post up some photos when spare time allows. 

My view of this light is very favorable. Will I buy the 123 version? Probably.


----------



## AstroTurf

Thank You Sir!!!

Edit: memory kills it for me. Will wait to see Alpha changes.

Thanks Again


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks bykfixer !


----------



## bykfixer

Took it outside after dark and tried all three settings. In subdivision street light lit light pollution in my back yard a few hundred feet from a street light on low you can see a circle on the ground at your feet but that's about it. On medium it's good for 10-15 feet or so and on high it's good for 50-75 feet depending on light or dark objects being lit. A nice broad spill from a conical beam much like the 415 lumen Alpha. 

Out in the starlit country side or inside a windowless building with the lights off it should be way different. 

I'll probably keep it set on medium 90% of the time to get a 2D incan Maglite output from a chapstick sized flashlight. I'm about as excited about this light as I would be a new universal screw driver tool set or adjustable wrench. Nothing to be estatic over but also know it'll definitely be a very useful lighting tool very often.


----------



## AstroTurf

Glad you like it!!!

Thumbs uP!!!


----------



## AstroTurf

PS a pic comparo next to an Alpha... Please


----------



## bykfixer

Some photos: 





Compared to; top to bottom, 1x aaa Sofirn C01, 1x aaa Husky indestructable, 1x AA Elzetta G, 1x aa Pelican 2350, 1x aa Rayovac essentials, 1x aa Klarus P1A. Woops, cut off P1A but you get the point, right? 





Versus an Alpha 315 hi/lo. I no longer own a 415 model





The battery charging.
Red light for charging, blue light for charged





Fan blade check on medium mode, no PWM detected





Fan blade check on low mode, not sure but looks like no PWM





The wall shows beam spot and spill at 1 foot away.
Big ole spot, nice spill. No artifacts from the mirror smooth reflector. 





1am, what the cat burglar saw in low mode





In the package next to a JetBeam RRT01 (1st gen)


----------



## AstroTurf

Great Pix

Thanks


----------



## bykfixer

I was surprised how small it is. 
I've been carrying a PKDL 1aaa PL2 for a few years now and almost always twist it from high to 20 lumen low since I don't usually need all 100+ lumens so having the ability to start out at 30 lumens causes me to consider carrying this one instead.


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks a lot from London !
seems now a nice little light from Elzetta. 
surprised to see Elzetta move into these. nice.


----------



## kj2

Nice move from Elzetta. Do think they'd to jump into this market.
Hopefully they can get a dealer in the EU again, in 2021.


----------



## neutralwhite

a dealer in the EU would be good.
was there one before ? 



kj2 said:


> Nice move from Elzetta. Do think they'd to jump into this market.
> Hopefully they can get a dealer in the EU again, in 2021.


----------



## kj2

neutralwhite said:


> a dealer in the EU would be good.
> was there one before ?


Knives&Tools sold it for some time. Think they quit, because it didn't sell as good as HDS.


----------



## bykfixer

Does it get colors correct? 





Christmas morning 7am light from a window





Lit with the G on low
My faux fir lined blue suede shoes look like faux fir lined blue suede shoes……
CRI number? I dunno, and really aint sweating it because simply put, using this light to match up dark sox at 4:30am probably won't result in me wearing one dark blue and one dark green sock.


----------



## coffeecup66

Great report, thank you.

If possible, could you picture it aside an HDS please.

Cheers & Merry Christmas.


----------



## bykfixer

I do not own any HDS products


----------



## coffeecup66

bykfixer said:


> I do not own any HDS products



. 
I was afraid of that. Thanks nonetheless, the side by side with the Alpha is already very helpful.


----------



## peter yetman

Thanks Mike
Next to the Alpha it looke like a tiddler.
I shall wait for Knives and Tools to get them in. Unless of course we get a Trade Deal with the US with special allowances for flashlights. Now that would be a thing.
Happy Doodah.
P


----------



## kj2

peter yetman said:


> Thanks Mike
> Next to the Alpha it looke like a tiddler.
> I shall wait for Knives and Tools to get them in. Unless of course we get a Trade Deal with the US with special allowances for flashlights. Now that would be a thing.
> Happy Doodah.
> P


Wait for K&T.. I don't expect them to start selling Elzetta again.


----------



## peter yetman

That's a blow KT, i did notice they were all showing out of stock.
Have to wait for the new Trade Deal then.
P


----------



## bykfixer

Perhaps the 'non gun' aspect of the G-Line and the price will cause knife and tool stores across the big pond to reconsider carrying Elzetta products. 
I half expect to see some in 'outdoor gear' stores over here by spring. Will they be able to compete with the Olight and Fenix crowd in those stores? Hard to know at this point. 

I've used my aa G at night to navigate my darkened home and really like the reach of the low setting. It did cause me to wonder if there was a typo and it's 10.5 lumens, not 1.5 so I also carried my floody 6 or 7 lumen night light at one point and that one had me squinting. So I suppose it really is only 1.5 lumens. Yet it reaches from end to end of my home at 2am with a gentle spill to see well enough to not smack my toes into furniture or wall corners. 

I compared it to the ice cream cone shaped low beam of the new Fenix E01 and definitely prefer the less output of the Elzetta in complete darkness at those times I want to go back to sleep after checking over the house. 

I wonder if Elzetta offered colored lenses if folks would go for those. Perhaps a lens kit with a rubber sleeve to go over the end to hold the lens.






Like this one for the JetBeam RRT01


----------



## aznsx

bykfixer said:


> My favorite vape juice supplier has switched to FedEx 2 day now instead of USPS priority.



You can probably thank me for that, at least partially. I'm one who was already doing special shipping requests to have things shipped FedEx before the switch. I guess I helped. Yay!! No more e-mails w/ their shipping people required to make that happen! (although they were very helpful and responsive to my needs, it must be said)


----------



## bykfixer

Ordered some Elzetta batteries today. RCR's and AA's. And a backup AA EDC. 

If USPS is still crippled I figure they'll arrive around Ground Hog day. If Elzetta has temporarily changed shippers, much sooner. 

I considered the EDC 123 but will wait on that.


----------



## marinemaster

Hi is the new AA reflector smooth or orange peel ? Thanks


----------



## neutralwhite

elzetta tell that the LED in the new 850L bones is an upgrade from its old one. 
what could it be? 
I don't even know what the old LED was. - Cree XM-L2? what's it's upgrade?

they don't tell , they say for various reasons.
?.


----------



## bykfixer

marinemaster said:


> Hi is the new AA reflector smooth or orange peel ? Thanks


Mirror smooth. 

It's been my bedside table light lately. As I get used to what it is and isn't my brain is "well can it do X?" such as similar to the alpha hi/lo select a higher output in momentary then release pressure to resume lower output? No. 
There is a slight amount of play in the threads tho so you can change settings by pulling on the head towards the tail while it's turned off if you want to change modes that way. That way it starts off in which of the three settings you prefer or reminds you what setting you last used. Takes a little practice though. 

You hold the light by the head with the body towards the palm, tug on the head toward the palm and watch for the changes. Tug repeatedly until you reach the setting you prefer. Release and that is the setting it will start on next time. Also useful when twisting to turn on/off but you accidently advanced to the next level as it turned off. 

At 2am you just hold it with finger/thumb over the end and watch how much light escapes from between the two in case you left it on high but just want the 1.5 lumens. Every so often when using it one handed the resistance to rotation by the o'ring causes me to accidently advance it to the next level as I turn it off. You'll know. So I just tug on the head twice and get it back to the level it had been. That's inherent with a water proof twisty head that has multiple output options.





One finger tug





Two finger, won't smudge lens tug





2am won't blind you tug

Just tug until you reach the setting you want next time, or this time if you don't like where it is set or forgot where you left it. 
One tug shows you where it's already set. More tugs advances it like half pressing a tail cap.


----------



## neutralwhite

anyone?



neutralwhite said:


> elzetta tell that the LED in the new 850L bones is an upgrade from its old one.
> what could it be?
> I don't even know what the old LED was. - Cree XM-L2? what's it's upgrade?
> 
> they don't tell , they say for various reasons.
> ?.


----------



## bykfixer

Some AA EDC beam shots. 
I've been using it as a night light exclusively but this evening the dog was barking and barking and barking so I cranked it up to see what ole Fido kept yappin' about. Turns out a cat was hanging around the edge of the property. 

So here goes: 
The obligitory wall shot from 15 feet with a wall at a right angle to show the out skirts of the spill. 





Big ole spot. 

The tree is about 50 feet away. 





Before
Note all of those free lumens





Medium 





High

The shed is about 100 feet away





Before





Medium shows the shed





High lights up the house about 175 feet away.

So there you have it.


----------



## Owen

neutralwhite said:


> I don't even know what the old LED was. - Cree XM-L2? what's it's upgrade?
> 
> they don't tell , they say for various reasons.
> ?.


There was a review that stated the old one was a XM-L2 like you said.
I hate that secret squirrel crap, but suppose I don't really care what the emitter is, as long as it's, uh..._neutralwhite_
Already bought extra batteries for it, so I hope the Bones comes out quick, and doesn't lag behind the Bravo and Charlie.
Part of me really wants to buy a Charlie, then have it bored for 18mm cells, and machined down to a Bravo, but with SF C series/Malkoff/etc. compatible tail threads. 
The lack of tailcap options is my only real nitpick, since Elzetta doesn't do shrouded/protected ones, or use a switch that I'm familiar with. I'll put up with it for that beam, though!


----------



## neutralwhite

very good thanks, lets see what goes down. love the beam, as well as that near-silent switch on the tail!. 
hope it all comes soon. could be this week !



Owen said:


> There was a review that stated the old one was a XM-L2 like you said.
> I hate that secret squirrel crap, but suppose I don't really care what the emitter is, as long as it's, uh..._neutralwhite_
> Already bought extra batteries for it, so I hope the Bones comes out quick, and doesn't lag behind the Bravo and Charlie.
> Part of me really wants to buy a Charlie, then have it bored for 18mm cells, and machined down to a Bravo, but with SF C series/Malkoff/etc. compatible tail threads.
> The lack of tailcap options is my only real nitpick, since Elzetta doesn't do shrouded/protected ones, or use a switch that I'm familiar with. I'll put up with it for that beam, though!


----------



## Rob Babcock

Looks like a winner for the price!


----------



## neutralwhite

bones has been pushed back till feb. bravo's and Charlie's this month.


----------



## AstroTurf

bones without a high/low mode is a non starter.


----------



## neutralwhite

I think of the same thing from time to time. malkoff High Low switch comes to mind. a better buy.



AstroTurf said:


> bones without a high/low mode is a non starter.


----------



## adamlau

AstroTurf said:


> bones without a high/low mode is a non starter.


100% agreed.


----------



## neutralwhite

especially now on those bumped up lumens. 



adamlau said:


> 100% agreed.


----------



## AstroTurf

disagree

i had the malkoff hi low ring on a m61 hot, total piece, compared to an ElZetta hi low tail cap...



neutralwhite said:


> I think of the same thing from time to time. malkoff High Low switch comes to mind. a better buy.


----------



## neutralwhite

can a high low tail cap be on a bones ? 
also what is ' total piece ' ? 
thanks AstroTurf.



AstroTurf said:


> disagree
> 
> i had the malkoff hi low ring on a m61 hot, total piece, compared to an ElZetta hi low tail cap...


----------



## peter yetman

I think the Hi/Lo tail on a Bones can be a bit hit and miss. A bit like putting one on a bored Bravo ot Charlie.
Also I'd imagine you need to read "****" not "piece".

Peace and love,
P


----------



## neutralwhite

so total 'piece' is in favour of Malkoff or Elzetta ? lol. thanks. 



peter yetman said:


> I think the Hi/Lo tail on a Bones can be a bit hit and miss. A bit like putting one on a bored Bravo ot Charlie.
> Also I'd imagine you need to read "****" not "piece".
> 
> Peace and love,
> P


----------



## bykfixer

I put a Bravo hi/lo on my Bones. It was like having a 650/450 Bones. Nothing close to what it did on the Bravo for whatever reason.


----------



## neutralwhite

wow 450 on low!?. lol...
best stick to what's on there already. 



bykfixer said:


> I put a Bravo hi/lo on my Bones. It was like having a 650/450 Bones. Nothing close to what it did on the Bravo for whatever reason.


----------



## bykfixer

I speculate 450. Suffice to say it did not reduce the output very much. You could see it did reduce some, just not a lot like on the Bravo


----------



## AstroTurf

i found the high low malkoff head ring design to be lacking, and loose.

not good for me and sold off with the first opportunity.



neutralwhite said:


> also what is ' total piece ' ?
> thanks AstroTurf.


----------



## BugoutBoys

I wonder if the new AVS head will have the same tint as the others :naughty: that rosy magenta neutral white is so shmexy


----------



## neutralwhite

got a picture ? 



BugoutBoys said:


> I wonder if the new AVS head will have the same tint as the others :naughty: that rosy magenta neutral white is so shmexy


----------



## thermal guy

My AVS has a very neutral tint and one of the best all around beams. I really hope they haven’t changed the new version to much.


----------



## bykfixer

I've asked Elzetta to please, please, please make the wrist lanyard that comes with the G-Line available as a compliment to their wire lanyard ring. 
Adjustable, nice and comfy on the wrist, and stretchy. If you like using a wrist strap it's a goody. Hopefully they'll add it to the accessory line up.


----------



## AstroTurf

i'd buy one or three...


----------



## neutralwhite

wonder if the bones will be the same colour on the new batch.


----------



## neutralwhite

hi does the bones updated have the same LED as the Bravo AVS? 
I am looking for the 4300k temp in this bones.


----------



## neutralwhite

hi does the bones updated have the same LED as the Bravo AVS? 
I am looking for the 4300k / 4500k temp in this bones.


----------



## scout24

I used the last of my Elzetta "post-it" notes that came with the last light I ordered today. May have to look at adding another one to the collection...


----------



## jon_slider

scout24 said:


> I used the last of my Elzetta "post-it" notes that came with the last light I ordered


here is an AA Elzetta:




bykfixer said:


> The brand spanking new Elzetta... 1AA.




Both Elzetta and Jetbeam offer the same Host and UI


----------



## neutralwhite

anyone know ? 
thanks. 



neutralwhite said:


> hi does the bones updated have the same LED as the Bravo AVS?
> I am looking for the 4300k / 4500k temp in this bones.


----------



## jon_slider

neutralwhite said:


> anyone know ?
> thanks.



also try email:
info (at) elzetta (dot) com

very helpful, and fast replies


----------



## neutralwhite

what would be a good clip in 2021 for the 2021 bones ? 

I am looking at the speed clip, prometheus Ti Clip, and I am wondering if any raven concealment clips would fit & be the best!, or something. 

thanks a lot.


----------



## adamlau

I am partial to the Switchback 2.0. FYI, shipping notification was received from Elzetta today. Those who placed Bravo/Charlie orders direct through Elzetta should be receiving their upgrades very soon :thumbsup:


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks Adam, have you ordered an Elzetta? 



adamlau said:


> I am partial to the Switchback 2.0. FYI, shipping notification was received from Elzetta today. Those who placed Bravo/Charlie orders direct through Elzetta should be receiving their upgrades very soon :thumbsup:


----------



## adamlau

neutralwhite said:


> thanks Adam, have you ordered an Elzetta?


Someone else did. But I will get to play with what is incoming, examine what is new and interesting, how the new emitter fares with both optics and such


----------



## neutralwhite

very good, I am waiting to order a new bones. my 3rd!. 
thanks. 



adamlau said:


> Someone else did. But I will get to play with what is incoming, examine what is new and interesting, how the new emitter fares with both optics and such


----------



## Fuchshp

I've had several flashlights that failed. 

1. As a boy scout in the 80ies: Maglite AA, failed all the time... 
2. HDS: Suddenly died, later I found out it was the wire inside the 18650 battery compartment that came loose.
3. Zebralight: Lens cracked very easily. 
4. Surefire LX2: Low mode started to flicker, but never really failed.
5. Surefire with Oveready v5 drop-in: Drop-in suddenly died. 
6. Muyshondt Maus: Sometimes doesn't switch on. It is easy to fix. Remove the head and wipe it inside with a piece of cloth or paper. 

That's why I bought an Elzetta Alpha. 
From what I've read here, this could be that last flashlight I buy...


----------



## Beard Man

Fuchshp said:


> I've had several flashlights that failed.





Fuchshp said:


> 1. As a boy scout in the 80ies: Maglite AA, failed all the time...
> 2. HDS: Suddenly died, later I found out it was the wire inside the 18650 battery compartment that came loose.
> 3. Zebralight: Lens cracked very easily.
> 4. Surefire LX2: Low mode started to flicker, but never really failed.
> 5. Surefire with Oveready v5 drop-in: Drop-in suddenly died.
> 6. Muyshondt Maus: Sometimes doesn't switch on. It is easy to fix. Remove the head and wipe it inside with a piece of cloth or paper.
> 
> That's why I bought an Elzetta Alpha.
> From what I've read here, this could be that last flashlight I buy...



How about Malkoff?


----------



## Fuchshp

> How about Malkoff?


I've had a Malkoff drop-in (WLLL?) - never failed. 

Malkoff's shipping costs to Switzerland are outrageous, though. $55 for a tiny drop in! 
Elzetta is $25 which is acceptable.


----------



## Fuchshp

Would it be possible to mod an older high/strobe tailcap into a high/low tailcap?


----------



## Beard Man

jon_slider said:


> here is an AA Elzetta:



So who copied whom, Jetbeam or Elzetta?


----------



## adamlau

JETBeam clearly manufactures the G-Line on behalf of Elzetta. Whether there are internal differences remains to be seen. A community member with both needs to break them down for a compare and contrast


----------



## Beard Man

adamlau said:


> JETBeam clearly manufactures the G-Line on behalf of Elzetta.


Where did you find this information? 

Elzetta has never had such a design, even Alpha has a "bulletproof" look/design, but G-Line looks exactly like a copy of Jetbeam.

Made in the USA no longer on the G-Line body? :thinking:


----------



## thermal guy

I’m sure the G-line are nice lights but they just don’t do it for me. Elzetta has or had a very distinct design/look to them. They shouted toughness! Not getting it with this line. Granted they are not geared towards high speed low drag stuff but would of loved to of seen a downsized bravo for this role.


----------



## neutralwhite

me too. not bad, but surprised to see Elzetta go this way. they screamed American made once!.



thermal guy said:


> I’m sure the G-line are nice lights but they just don’t do it for me. Elzetta has or had a very distinct design/look to them. They shouted toughness! Not getting it with this line. Granted they are not geared towards high speed low drag stuff but would of loved to of seen a downsized bravo for this role.


----------



## Fuchshp

> me too. not bad, but surprised to see Elzetta go this way. they screamed American made once!.



Dave Barnett should do a video blog post and tell us.

In one of his videos Dave Barnett says he carried a 3-cell C133 for several years as an EDC. That's quite a big light for EDC...


----------



## neutralwhite

I believe Dave is no longer with Elzetta. 



Fuchshp said:


> Dave Barnett should do a video blog post and tell us.
> 
> In one of his videos Dave Barnett says he carried a 3-cell C133 for several years as an EDC. That's quite a big light for EDC...


----------



## Owen

No worries, the G line may have mineral glass and no potting, but it has type III ano, and is therefore just as tough as the Z line. It does not sacrifice quality, durability, or reliability compared to other Elzetta products, and provides the same security and peace of mind.

Do they even realize what they're saying?


----------



## thermal guy

Lol. I didn’t see that. Do they really say that about G line?


----------



## Owen

Yep. I was looking at the 1x123 model earlier. That's a compilation from the heading, description, and specs, but that's exactly what they say. 
Just more marketing BS from the same people who brought you the tactically silent switch, so noone will know you're there when you fire up your 1350 lumen personal locator beacon


----------



## thermal guy

Lmao!! I have said that about silent switches for years. I really don’t get the idea behind them.


----------



## bykfixer

I suppose Elzetta is setting around biting their nails hoping those folks at CPF approve……Maglite and SureFire too. (as PK yawns)


----------



## Owen

thermal guy said:


> Lmao!! I have said that about silent switches for years. I really don’t get the idea behind them.


Who knows, they may have just happened to have used a clicky that was quiet, and added the rest.
Like how you can screw down a twisty head or tailcap 'til it's almost on, and then activate it by pushing on the tailcap body, or pulling on the head. I watched a video about their different tailcaps a while back, and they demonstrated doing it, but called it "adjustable sensitivity", as if it were intentional. 
Bomber lights are right up my alley, and I like that beam, but that kinda stuff is just hard for me to stomach.

Maybe they'll get some neutral emitters before releasing the Bones. Doesn't hurt to hope. I used a Lee filter on a M61HOT that made it more "neutralish", and could do that with an Elzetta, but it's not the same.

I actually poked around about an Elzetta/Malkoff collaboration(thought an AVS head with hi/lo switch that could use MD2/3/4 bodies would be really cool), but got shot down. Oh, well. Didn't cost anything to ask.


----------



## aznsx

Owen said:


> No worries, the G line may have mineral glass and no potting, but it has type III ano, and is therefore just as tough as the Z line. It does not sacrifice quality, durability, or reliability compared to other Elzetta products, and provides the same security and peace of mind.
> 
> Do they even realize what they're saying?



I could take that two ways. Would that imply that the Gs are more reliable than you think, or that the existing line isn't as reliable as most think?
(yes, I'm joking folks)


----------



## thermal guy

Ya you get yourself a older head fitted with a old school Malkoff M60 and you pretty much have a light that’s about as reliable and tough as they come.


----------



## Fuchshp

> Ya you get yourself a older head fitted with a old school Malkoff M60 and you pretty much have a light that’s about as reliable and tough as they come.



ZFL-M60 is more reliable than AVS? I wanted to buy a C133 to complement the Alpha, to keep it in the glove compartment.


----------



## thermal guy

I wouldn’t say more reliable as I would say tougher. Looking at the AVS head the bezel and walls themselves are pretty thin compared to the old school ZLF setup. You would have to really beat the AVS head to get it to totally fail but IMO it’s not even close in strength as the ZLF.


----------



## bykfixer

Which model was it that Jeff Gordon looking character dropped from a helicopter and "oops missed the concrete" so they dropped it again onto a concrete slab? 
I think they were wild bore hunting and decided to torture test it if I recall correct.


----------



## thermal guy

That was a cool test. Remember the one they pounded like 50 nails into a 2X4 with one?


----------



## Fuchshp

> I wouldn’t say more reliable as I would say tougher. Looking at the AVS head the bezel and walls themselves are pretty thin compared to the old school ZLF setup. You would have to really beat the AVS head to get it to totally fail but IMO it’s not even close in strength as the ZLF.



Good you said that. After I read your comment I went looking for a ZLF. 
Less than an hour ago I found an Elzetta ZLF-M60 on a Swiss auction site and bought it for ~$80.


----------



## AstroTurf

sounds like a good deal... which model?



Fuchshp said:


> Good you said that. After I read your comment I went looking for a ZLF.
> Less than an hour ago I found an Elzetta ZLF-M60 on a Swiss auction site and bought it for ~$80.


----------



## Fuchshp

*Complete Alpha, Bravo, Charlie...*

2 cell, high/strobe, crenelated bezel. The drop-in seems to be M60 with 225 lumen. And clip and 16650 battery.

I already have the Alpha A113 with additional flood lens. And I think I'm going to buy a Charlie C133 too. Actually, with only these 7 additional parts I'd have all Alpha, Bravo, Charlie models. 



Alpha Crenellated Bezel Ring
Charlie Body
AVS Head with Standard Bezel Ring & Standard Lens
AVS Flood Lens
Crenellated AVS Bezel Ring
High-Low Tailcap
Rotary Tailcap

I don't see any benefit in the "Click Tailcap" if you already have both high/low tailcaps. And I don't need a tape switch. I don't need lights on my two old hunting rifles, never used them even once in the last 20 years... 

With only 17 parts you can build the complete Elzetta Alpha, Bravo and Charlie lineup.


----------



## AstroTurf

Very Nice!!!



Fuchshp said:


> 2 cell, high/strobe, crenelated bezel. The drop-in seems to be M60 with 225 lumen. And clip and 16650 battery.


----------



## Fuchshp

Yes, very happy


----------



## Rob Babcock

I have a ZLF set up with an M61N and a Ti clip for EDC. I don't carry it as much as I once did as I use a lego Malkoff MDC most of the time but occasionally I still swap it into the rotation.


----------



## neutralwhite

Sound seems like an odd topic to cover in a blog dedicated to tactical lighting. Nonetheless, sound, or the lack thereof, is an important factor in choosing the best flashlight or any other tactical tool. Tactical missions, by their very nature, often demand covert operation. Escape/evasion scenarios are obvious examples where one must work without generating excess sound. Noise created by any means can jeopardize stealth and put such undertakings at risk. It is important, therefore, that all equipment function silently.
Most manufacturers of tactical equipment recognize this need and make efforts to minimize sound levels of their products. Unfortunately, such considerations are largely ignored by makers of tactical flashlights today. Many of the most popular flashlights on the market have switches that make relatively loud clicks when depressed (hence the common name “click switch”). While Elzetta has adopted the common terminology, we have designed our “Click” switches to operate nearly silently. This allows users to operate Elzetta Modular Flashlights without being heard by people nearby. Some have posited that loud switches are actually beneficial in providing audible feedback that the switch has latched. The problem with this idea is that not only must tactical flashlights be properly designed for extremely quiet missions, they must also function equally well in extraordinarily loud environments. Relying on the audible feedback from a small switch will be futile in the midst of gunfire and chaos. True reliable feedback must come from good tactile feel, not that which is heard by the ear.
Another source of sound from LED flashlights originates in the circuit boards. While such sound is generally not as loud as a clunky switch, it is often constant when the flashlight is operating. Electrical noise is usually a constant annoying tone. It may be soft enough to require holding the device near one’s ear to hear it. Just because the sound is small, however, does not mean that it is a small problem. Noise emitted by electrical devices generally indicates poor system design and/or poor quality components. When evaluating an LED flashlight, if any discernable noise can be heard, it is advisable to select another model.
Elite military units and Special Forces teams are often referred to as “Quiet Professionals”. Such a title should not be ruined by noisy gear. Quality tactical flashlights should operate as quietly as the professionals who use them. Light is to be seen, not heard.







thermal guy said:


> Lmao!! I have said that about silent switches for years. I really don’t get the idea behind them.


----------



## thermal guy

Ya I get all that but is the point of a silent switch so you do not give your position away? If it’s night and kinda figure it would be as your using a flashlight would not the light itself give you away? Or am I missing something.


----------



## bykfixer

If you are reading a map under a raincoat (or other covering to block light from escaping) while the enemy is near the click can give away your position.
It's why the signaler sliding switch was used on TL122 lights as early as WW2.


----------



## Fuchshp

It's a pitty that almost all pictures in this thread are gone. This thread really needs more pictures!


----------



## aznsx

neutralwhite said:


> Sound seems like an odd topic to cover in a blog dedicated to tactical lighting. Nonetheless, sound, or the lack thereof, is an important factor in choosing the best flashlight or any other tactical tool. Tactical missions, by their very nature, often demand covert operation. Escape/evasion scenarios are obvious examples where one must work without generating excess sound. Noise created by any means can jeopardize stealth and put such undertakings at risk. It is important, therefore, that all equipment function silently.
> Most manufacturers of tactical equipment recognize this need and make efforts to minimize sound levels of their products. Unfortunately, such considerations are largely ignored by makers of tactical flashlights today. Many of the most popular flashlights on the market have switches that make relatively loud clicks when depressed (hence the common name “click switch”). While Elzetta has adopted the common terminology, we have designed our “Click” switches to operate nearly silently. This allows users to operate Elzetta Modular Flashlights without being heard by people nearby. Some have posited that loud switches are actually beneficial in providing audible feedback that the switch has latched. The problem with this idea is that not only must tactical flashlights be properly designed for extremely quiet missions, they must also function equally well in extraordinarily loud environments. Relying on the audible feedback from a small switch will be futile in the midst of gunfire and chaos. True reliable feedback must come from good tactile feel, not that which is heard by the ear.
> Another source of sound from LED flashlights originates in the circuit boards. While such sound is generally not as loud as a clunky switch, it is often constant when the flashlight is operating. Electrical noise is usually a constant annoying tone. It may be soft enough to require holding the device near one’s ear to hear it. Just because the sound is small, however, does not mean that it is a small problem. Noise emitted by electrical devices generally indicates poor system design and/or poor quality components. When evaluating an LED flashlight, if any discernable noise can be heard, it is advisable to select another model.
> Elite military units and Special Forces teams are often referred to as “Quiet Professionals”. Such a title should not be ruined by noisy gear. Quality tactical flashlights should operate as quietly as the professionals who use them. Light is to be seen, not heard.




Well explained. And yes, one can be completely out of sight in all respects (flashlight included), but still be heard. Yes, most of my lights have switches that are anything but silent (using 'maintained-on'), but most that I'm aware of that are silent are unacceptable for other reasons. That said, some are noisier than others. This is another case where 'momentary-on' (generally silent) is preferable to 'maintained-on' when possible, and but one of a number of reasons why 'momentary-on' feature is an absolute requirement.


----------



## neutralwhite

bones is back in stock with new photos coming


----------



## Fuchshp

Alpha and Charlie arrived. 

*Alpha*
The flood lens is really, really good for indoor use. Nice neutral tint. 
I took the Alpha under water for a short time. It didn't fail, but later I found water behind the lens. Maybe this is to do with all the lens changing and experimenting when it first arrived. 

*Charlie*
I like the size of the 3-cell Charlie, very comfortable to hold. It feels smaller than expected (I've never had a 3-cell light).
Tint is not really neutral, it's more on the cool side. 

*Sound*
While the high/low switch of my Charlie is really, really quiet the high/low switch of my Alpha is almost as noisy as other clickies.


----------



## bykfixer

One of the things with the front gasket of the Alpha is how much to tighten it. Not enough or too much can both lead to water intrusion. I knew I'd over tightened mine when the optic cracked on the outside edge. 
Dratz.


----------



## neutralwhite

new bones up on site ( photo ) 
looks darker. 
nice.


----------



## wacbzz

The new color looks much more better!

I like the color, 18650 battery acceptance, and the shift to a higher K output, but I cannot buy another Elzetta flashlight until they fix their clip design. The “speed clip,” while super advantageous in many ways _according to them_, quite frankly, sucks. It’s very bulky, provides a poor “in the pocket” carry, and isn’t at all user friendly with its installation. 

When that gets updated, I’ll get the new Bones...


----------



## Fuchshp

I'm thinking about asking Tana to mod Charlie into neutral (4000-4500K).


----------



## Fuchshp

After two days of use the Charlies switch is now as noisy as the Alphas switch...


----------



## AstroTurf

Fuchshp said:


> After two days of use the Charlies switch is now as noisy as the Alphas switch...



Oh oh, Time to go back to the MotherShip for another shot of grease to the switch...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## delus

*Semper Fideliis*

Here is a video of the USMC logo being engraved on three Charlie C133 models.
Posted through the "Elzetta Design Insider Spring 2021 Newsletter"
The sound is a slightly more musical version of scratching your fingernails on a chalkboard.


----------



## bykfixer

*Re: Semper Fideliis*

Sounds like one of my buddies favorite modern day super-fast-go heavy metal bands trying to do a Jimmy Hendix solo. :candle:


----------



## AstroTurf

*Re: Semper Fideliis*

Alpha Update???


----------



## bykfixer

I'm really tempted to buy a blue Bones. No longer a limited edition blue Bones. It is now a regular part of the lineup. 

Trouble is I have a couple of gray ones already.

Thoughts?


----------



## AstroTurf

great find byk!!!


----------



## bykfixer

Elzetta has them on their site.


----------



## AstroTurf

i saw that...

at a buck 45, not bad, not bad at all.


----------



## Chadder

I have the new Blue Bones! I like that it is a bit brighter, but I am not crazy about the tint. In real world use its not bad but I really prefer the nice warm tint of my old bones.


----------



## bykfixer

Welp, that's it. You've talked me out of one. My wallet thanks you. 

Ahhh……but the voices have yet to chime in on the matter. 🥴


----------



## Chadder

I still think you should get one and judge for yourself! LOL It looks so pretty next to the others!!


----------



## bykfixer

I ordered some lanyard rings that now come with a great wrist strap, some Battery Stations and a couple more RCR's on Thursday night. They arrived today.
It seems like USPS priority has returned to normal.

I'm using those G-Line numbers more and more. I'm using Z-Line numbers less and less. So I don't see a blue Bones headed my way anytime soon. I never thought the day would arrive I'd say "the Z-Line are just too big". 

I grew up with 3D Maglites so those tiny little 6P sized flashlights simply amazed me for years. Yet the 1aa G-Line gets used a lot. The G-RCR too. So much that the Bravo AVS hi/lo feels like a 2C Maglite to me anymore.

Oh there's still lots of times for a Bones and Bravo for me but they have been relegated to niche lights now that Elzetta colaborated with JetBeam and had those even smaller lights built.


----------



## parnass

The Elzetta web site contains the message "Improving our site and our product line. Check back soon to find out how." Any idea how long their web site has been out of service?


----------



## bykfixer

It was up Thursday night (7/29/21)


----------



## AstroTurf

elzetta is back up...

with a new and improved alpha.

the old alpha model 113 being blown out with a 30% discount.

enjoy!!!


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks for the tip.
I've had the (gen 2) 113 in my cart eleven-teen times or so then changed my mind at checkout.
But 30% off? Sold.

Gen 3: think Malkoff Body Guard in an Alpha body. 800+ for 10 seconds then slides down to 500+ for 30, then steady for around 30 minutes. 
50 lumen low with an imr RCR. 
CR123 starts at 535 for ten seconds then down to 435 and a steady, gentle taper to around 75 minutes. 

New feature is double click strobe like a Stinger/Strion. They say do not use gen 2 hi/lo or hi/blink tailcaps as the new model will kill those. 
They use the same verbage to describe the beam as the Bones so it's probably a nice throwey beam like the 415 was. Arrives with a CR123.


----------



## AstroTurf

bykfixer said:


> Thanks for the tip.
> I've had the (gen 2) 113 in my cart eleven-teen times or so then changed my mind at checkout.
> But 30% off? Sold.
> 
> Gen 3: think Malkoff Body Guard in an Alpha body. 800+ for 10 seconds then slides down to 500+ for 30, then steady for around 30 minutes.
> 50 lumen low with an imr RCR.
> CR123 starts at 535 for ten seconds then down to 435 and a steady, gentle taper to around 75 minutes.
> 
> New feature is double click strobe like a Stinger/Strion. They say do not use gen 2 hi/lo or hi/blink tailcaps as the new model will kill those.
> They use the same verbage to describe the beam as the Bones so it's probably a nice throwey beam like the 415 was. Arrives with a CR123.


nice!!!


----------



## Slumber

Now they have High Candela heads available too.


----------



## AstroTurf

good catch!!!


----------



## adamlau

I was going back and forth for an hour or so last night. Only it seems as if the HC may be the old XML-2 in a deep reflector. If it is at least XPL-HI, then I may be more receptive to the idea. Someone pick one up and let us know what we have here


----------



## bykfixer

Just curious, but why does it matter which LED it has?

One thing about modern LED lights is they seem to strive for a broad beam with bright spill, which kills ones night adapted peripheral vision. I'm glad to see Elzetta striving for a light that can reach out farther. If for no other reason than to step back in time to a period where throwey LED lights did not do that.

Don't know if that's one of the factors in why they chose to produce this High Candella (HC) option yet it could be a side affect from it. My Bones and Bravo AVS have a beam that does a decent job at softening the far edges so I would think the HC would be even better at that.

A 4mm lens should be pretty durable in regards to say, driving in a nail with your flashlight, but I wonder how scratch resistant it is. If it does get scratched up one could wet sand it with headlight lens restore products and get it back pretty close to new looking.


----------



## Rob Babcock

I'm interested in the new Alpha and the high candella heads for the Bravo/Charlie bodies!


----------



## bykfixer

When the Alpha 415 first came out they offered a copper version. I bought one, played with it a few days and put it back in the clam shell to keep it like new. It also went back into the shipping box along with the sticker and sticky notes they came with back then. 
Later the Bones was acquired. Don't remember the release history but do remember I bought mine after the copper Alpha 415. I remember thinking the Bones beam was like the Alpha 415's big brother but never actually pulled the copper one back out to compare. 
Today a black 415 (model 113) arrived and man oh man I like that one. I like the Alpha 315 but between the flickering hi/lo tailcap and a freak parasitic drain that one collects dust anymore. Yes about 45 days with no use and the battery would be dead. 
Now the Bones and AVS Bravo I own have 3 distinct beams. A hot spot, a mid-spot and a spill. The Alpha 415 has a distinct spot and a spill. The spill reminds me of Gene's XP-G2 M61's yet with a more throwey spot. The tint is slightly cooler than the Bones 650/Bravo AVS 650. Noticeably warmer than the Alpha 315 and the tip of the cone beam reaches out way farther. 

Anyway, if anybody is on the fence about an Alpha 415 grab one while you still can. And as a bonus they are 30% off (ie $105) with $0 shipping over $99. I'm sure glad I did.


----------



## Dicaeopolis

New feature double click strobe? On what light is that?


----------



## GoVegan

Dicaeopolis said:


> New feature double click strobe? On what light is that?


The new Elzetta Alpha Gen3.

Elzetta have recently backtracked on so many of their original design philosophies. 3 modes is no longer the all important "binary" tactical interface. lol.
Poor old Dave Barnett, must be turning over in his grave. (just a guess so TIFWIW).


----------



## Dicaeopolis

GoVegan said:


> The new Elzetta Alpha Gen3.
> 
> Elzetta have recently backtracked on so many of their original design philosophies. 3 modes is no longer the all important "binary" tactical interface. lol.
> Poor old Dave Barnett, must be turning over in his grave. (just a guess so TIFWIW).


I ordered the Gen 3. I didn't know it had strobe mode. I thought that was a different tail cap. I guess I don't keep up on what is going on. Is Dave Barnett, no longer with the company? "Turning over in his grave." Did he die?


----------



## bykfixer

The gen 3 alpha just came out a few days ago.


----------



## thermal guy

Hey how well is the throw of the generation 2?


----------



## bykfixer

Numbers-wise it says 1900 cd.







Just before dark 





The Gen 2 Alpha on high





Bravo AVS 650 to compare.


----------



## thermal guy

Hell! That little thing really throws.


----------



## bykfixer

It has a small circle that throws pretty good with a nice spill that does not ruin night adapted vision on the outside edges as badly as a brighter light with a more evenly dispersed beam.

Great for outdoor use like locating a perp in the bushes where the 315 version put out a nice wall of light that was great for things like a warehouse raid.

I included a photo taken with an AVS to show that the entire scene is evenly lit with that one where the bright area in the Alpha beam is more narrow at a distance. The AVS tapers off nicely at the edges but at a much wider angle than the gen 2 Alpha.

For ID of an unknown dark object figure around 100 feet, maybe less. Say you need to know if it's a skunk or just a black cat…… But if it's not a really dark object, such as a bobcat versus a neighbors cocker spaniel the distance you can ID the object is much farther.


----------



## thermal guy

Our favorite yard sale site is having one hell of a deal on some of there stuff! Just picked up two😁


----------



## Dicaeopolis

I received my Alpha Gen 3 today. Just tried it so far with the CR123 it came with. Nice and bright with good throw and spill. I prefer the tint over the Gen 2 I have. My Gen 2 has a yellowish tint. I have the High/Low tail cap and as far as I can tell there is no way to activate any type of strobe. It out throws the Gen 2. My Gen 2 has a wider and dimmer hot spot.


----------



## bykfixer

Based on what folks are saying it sounds like Elzetta has gone with a cooler beam on this newest series of the Z-Line lights. It's kinda like the lights for 2021 are no longer a Sherman tank that whistles the Andy Griffith theme song but instead has reverted to the Batman theme song.


----------



## thermal guy

I do like the warmer tints. My AVS Charlie has a great tint. Not cool at all.


----------



## Dicaeopolis

My guess on the Gen3 would be somewhere close to 5000. Warmer then my standard HDS Executive. Seems close to my Elzetta Bravo, but different beam pattern, so looks different. Tried to post pic, but can't get it to work. Maybe have to up my membership status to do so. Might try tonight.


----------



## AstroTurf

thermal guy said:


> Our favorite yard sale site is having one hell of a deal on some of there stuff! Just picked up two😁


wow, these didnt last long...


----------



## thermal guy

AstroTurf said:


> wow, these didnt last long...


At them prices?hell no!


----------



## Dicaeopolis

I did get the Gen3 Alpha strobe to work. From off, I do 3 rapid half presses, and on the third press the strobe is activated.


----------



## GoVegan

Dicaeopolis said:


> I did get the Gen3 Alpha strobe to work. From off, I do 3 rapid half presses, and on the third press the strobe is activated.



Could you please clarify if 3 half presses or not as the site states only 2:

"A high frequency strobe is now fully integrated into the head and can be activated by double-tapping the switch. Simply cycle the light off to disengage the strobe function."

Or is it 3 presses from off, 2 from on?


----------



## bykfixer

I had the impression two full press (ie engage clicker) from on or off like the Streamlight stinger or strion would activate the flashy mode.


----------



## Dicaeopolis

I tried it again. It will strobe after 2 half presses from off, but sometimes it takes 3. I guess it took me a little practice. As far as I can tell, it will only strobe from the off position. I am not clicking the switch until it clicks. Just 2 or 3 rapid momentary presses. I really like the Alpha Gen3. Nice tint, good combination of throw and spill. The low and high modes are similar in power to the Surefire EDCl1-T.


----------



## thermal guy

Just got last generation alpha and a new 850 bones. Very impressed with the alpha And really like the new bones. Not dark yet so haven’t taken her out yet but it has the the whitest cool tint of any light I own. Nothing like my older AVS head which is nice and neutral.Should work great as a work/ outside light as cool always seems brighter to me.


----------



## AstroTurf

thermal guy said:


> Just got last generation alpha and a new 850 bones. Very impressed with the alpha And really like the new bones. Not dark yet so haven’t taken her out yet but it has the the whitest cool tint of any light I own. Nothing like my older AVS head which is nice and neutral.Should work great as a work/ outside light as cool always seems brighter to me.


nice!!!

are those the ones from that garage sale site?


----------



## thermal guy

Yes. It’s funny the receipt had the full regular price on it and it came straight from elzetta. I of course did not pay anything near the price on the receipt. its very weird.


----------



## AstroTurf

thermal guy said:


> Yes. It’s funny the receipt had the full regular price on it and it came straight from elzetta. I of course did not pay anything near the price on the receipt. its very weird.


thanks!!!

ps i noticed more got listed today.


----------



## thermal guy

Ya I saw that. pick up a gen 3 alpha😂😂 literally half price.


----------



## AstroTurf

i have a full quiver of elzetta, so no need on my end...


----------



## thermal guy

Got one or two myself but this was my first alpha. I really like it.


----------



## AstroTurf

i bought a used first gen alpha, followed by a new second gen. i found the second gen alphas beam to be too yellow compared to the first gens rosy beam.

returned it, and bought a new first gen alpha. now i have two.

no more alphas for me...


----------



## thermal guy

Are IMR cells required to get full power on the new alpha or will a standard 16340 work?


----------



## gottawearshades

Can anybody say what emitter is in the 425-lumen Alpha?

That deal is very tempting.


----------



## Grizzman

I guess I missed the latest update to the Alpha. I wasn't expecting the output to be 535 continuous lumens from an IMR cell. I've had a Gen 1 Alpha since they were first released, and might need to try out the latest version.

My guess is that an IMR cell is required to get the full output, but the output from a standard 16340 shouldn't be visible less.


----------



## thermal guy

She’s a screamer! very bright with good throw.


----------



## Grizzman

Good throw was something the Gen 1 lacked (for those that haven't used one). Are the optics the same for each generation?


----------



## Hemicrusher

Just ordered a Gen 3 Alpha, A313...Hi-Low, Standard Optic and Crenellated Bezel.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Grizzman said:


> I guess I missed the latest update to the Alpha. I wasn't expecting the output to be 535 continuous lumens from an IMR cell. I've had a Gen 1 Alpha since they were first released, and might need to try out the latest version.
> 
> My guess is that an IMR cell is required to get the full output, but the output from a standard 16340 shouldn't be visible less.


 This is what Elzetta lists for the Gen 3 Alpha.


Output (Lumens) IMR16340535Output (Lumens) CR123435Intensity (Candela) IMR163404430Intensity (Candela) CR1237710Beam Distance (meters) IMR16340132Beam Distance (meters) CR123175Runtime (minutes) IMR1634075Runtime (minutes) CR12335


----------



## bykfixer

The optic for the gen 1 was shallower than gen 2. The gen 2 optic is gin clear where the optic for the gen 1 has a very slight frost.

The gen 1 was meant to be more floody, as in it was intended to be used in tight quarters where identifying friend or foe took place in an instant. There was an optional close quarters bezel as well.

The gen 2 was intended to also be used in outdoor situations where more reach is needed, yet the more neutral beam reduced self blinding in tight quarters. Also made for a good backup.

Gen 3? I would speculate it's meant as a backup or primary since it can be nearly as bright as a gen 1 Bones that can run on the RCR or CR123.







Actually allowed more light out than the smooth or crenalated bezel





Has a nice, smooth bezel and big ole LED





DNA sampler


----------



## Hemicrusher

What RCR123 are you using in your Alphas?


----------



## thermal guy

Right now I’m using a standard fenix 16340. She’s plenty bright. Love mine.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> Right now I’m using a standard fenix 16340. She’s plenty bright. Love mine.


I assume the Alpha has low voltage protection, so no need to use protected cells?

Thanks!


----------



## thermal guy

Hemicrusher said:


> I assume the Alpha has low voltage protection, so no need to use protected cells?
> 
> Thanks!


Not sure but that’s what I’m going to switch to. Runtime is not long with this light and I hate when it just dies without warning and I’m in the dark.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Just got this delivered.


----------



## thermal guy

Been using mine as a EDC sense I got it. Damn fine light. Love it.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> Been using mine as a EDC sense I got it. Damn fine light. Love it.


Still daylight here, so I haven't had a chance to play with it in the dark. But the tint looks around 4k. 

Any idea what LED they use?

Also, after reading some less than stellar reviews, it seems like Elzetta addressed the negatives in teh v.3, which is why I decided to order one. 

Beam is pretty decent and similar to other single TIR lights I own. Looks like a perfect EDC light.


----------



## thermal guy

Definitely on the warm side. I’d say 4000 is about right. Nothing like the new bones. Now that’s white.


----------



## thermal guy

Hemicrusher said:


> Still daylight here, so I haven't had a chance to play with it in the dark. But the tint looks around 4k.
> 
> Any idea what LED they use?
> 
> Also, after reading some less than stellar reviews, it seems like Elzetta addressed the negatives in teh v.3, which is why I decided to order one.
> 
> Beam is pretty decent and similar to other single TIR lights I own. Looks like a perfect EDC light.


I didn’t hear any bad reviews on it. What was the issue?


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> I didn’t hear any bad reviews on it. What was the issue?


Beam being too floody, output and tint. Some felt it was an outdated design. But that was with the earlier versions.

I tend to pay more attention to negatives, than positives....even if the negatives are few.


----------



## bykfixer

The gen 2 Alpha arrived around 2016. It was much less floody than the gen 1 and had a neutral beam that skirted the fringes of a warm tint. It was more suited as a backup light. 

The gen 1 was mostly misunderstood what it's intended use was. It was never meant to be a backup to Bravos or Charlies, but had its own niche. Many folks didn't like the gen 1 Alpha.


----------



## Hemicrusher

bykfixer said:


> The gen 2 Alpha arrived around 2016. It was much less floody than the gen 1 and had a neutral beam that skirted the fringes of a warm tint. It was more suited as a backup light.
> 
> The gen 1 was mostly misunderstood what it's intended use was. It was never meant to be a backup to Bravos or Charlies, but had its own niche. Many folks didn't like the gen 1 Alpha.


So, is the TIR the same in the v.2 and v.3?

Also, looking at the lens, there are little flaws inside, like inclusions in a crystal. Doesn't affect the beam, just a little annoying. Has about three obvious ones.


----------



## thermal guy

Oh ya that’s definitely not the case with V3😁


----------



## bykfixer

Hemicrusher said:


> So, is the TIR the same in the v.2 and v.3?


I don't own a gen 3 so I don't know the answer.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Question about the high/low switch on the Alpha. When the switch is tightened all the way, and the light is off., slowly depressing the switch will cause a slight ramp up to high. If pressed quickly before clicking, it turn on high instantly. Is this normal because of the High/Low design of the Alpha's mechanical forward clicky?


----------



## thermal guy

On mine slow,fast any speed gets it to high immediately. There’s no ramping at all.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> On mine slow,fast any speed gets it to high immediately. There’s no ramping at all.


Hmmm

It's all over the place. Unless I quickly press and hold before clicking, I can make it act almost like it's step ramping up and down, just by using light or firm pressure. Reminds me of my Peak LED lights with the QTC pill.


----------



## thermal guy

Hemicrusher said:


> Hmmm
> 
> It's all over the place. Unless I quickly press and hold before clicking, I can make it act almost like it's step ramping up and down, just by using light or firm pressure. Reminds me of my Peak LED lights with the QTC pill.


Not mine. There is like zero travel in my switch. It’s balls to the wall or off. Is your a generation 3?


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> Not mine. There is like zero travel in my switch. It’s balls to the wall or off. Is your a generation 3?


Yeah, Gen 3. Just received it the other day.

Just playing with it again. Pushing the switch in momentary, it will hit high, then drop a little, then hit high again without changing switch pressure. All within the first second. Also, a firm press seems like it hits high, but then it will jump up slightly in lumens a second later, without any change in switch pressure.

I sent Elzetta an email, so hopefully I can get it resolved.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> Not mine. There is like zero travel in my switch. It’s balls to the wall or off. Is your a generation 3?



Okay, they got back to me right away. But now I am even more confused by their answer.

*I sent them this*.

_Hi

I received my Alpha this week with the High/Low switch. When the cap is fully tightened, pressing the switch will cause the light to flicker/jump between 100ish lumens and High depending on how hard I press it. If I press it firmly until I hit resistance, it will go straight to High. But any release of pressure, while still on high, causes the light to jump between a lower level and high. And occasionally a firm press seems like it hits high, but then it will jump up slightly in lumens a second later, without any change in switch pressure.

Is this normal?_

*Their reply.*

_Yes, that is normal if you have the tailcap screwed in most of the way. Try backing off another quarter turn or until that stops. Our threads are machined intentionally loose so our tactical operarors can achieve a momentary high mode or manual strobe effect by pressing the side of the tailcap.

Thank you!
Elzetta Design LLC
PO Box 54364
Lexington, KY 40555_


----------



## Hemicrusher

Okay...so, this might be how it works. Meaning wonky.

*This is from a review on The Lite Review on a Ver 2 Alpha.*

_Tailcap Position – 1/8 Turn Counterclockwise from Fully Tightened_

Since the LOW mode is made possible with a resistor in the tailcap, it is worth noting that this is one of the perks or quirks (depending on how one might perceive it in their respective uses), due to the slight slop in the threads.

From OFF:


1/2 Press – Direct access to MOMENTARY LOW; depress switch entirely (1 Click) to get LOW.
3/4 Press – Direct access to MOMENTARY HIGH; depress switch entirely (1 Click) to get LOW.
1 Click – Direct access to LOW [flashlight would appear as though it goes from 1/2 Press (LOW mode) to 3/4 Press (HIGH mode) and then back to LOW mode].

*Looks like even when tightened, the slope in the threads will make it behave the way I am seeing it. *

_*I received, this additional response when asking to verify this behavior when screwed down all the way.*_

Correct. BUT, if you unscrew it an 1/8th turn and press on the switch it should go into low mode. The small gap between the end of the body and tailcap causes the momentary high to occur because the tailcap can physically move toward the body.

If the cap is in fact screwed all the way in you could be seeing a VERY quick disconnect of the switch rather than low mode. This can also be normal due to the mechanical switch long travel.

Thank you!
Elzetta Design LLC
PO Box 54364
Lexington, KY 40555


----------



## thermal guy

I get what there saying about the threads. We have known that for awhile. Basically if you get the switch in just the right spot it will be in low then when you press harder it will jump to high This is because of the slop in the threads. It’s a cool feature actually. But, if you screw the cap down all the way you should have high. Period. Not low. Not low/high. Just plan high with no flicker. Everyone of my hi/lo caps work like this. Not sure what’s going on with yours.


----------



## bykfixer

Going back to the first gen, the thread slop and short threaded area was misunderstood by many. 

The short threaded area is for ability to change the battery faster by taking less time to remove and replace the tailcap. 
The thread slop is for the ability to briefly engage high mode while it's on in low mode.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> I get what there saying about the threads. We have known that for awhile. Basically if you get the switch in just the right spot it will be in low then when you press harder it will jump to high This is because of the slop in the threads. It’s a cool feature actually. But, if you screw the cap down all the way you should have high. Period. Not low. Not low/high. Just plan high with no flicker. Everyone of my hi/lo caps work like this. Not sure what’s going on with yours.


I wonder if this is a "feature " of the v.3 lights since the tail cap is different than the v.2? They even warn that a v.2 tailcap will destroy a v.3 Alpha.

I'll deal with it since they claim what I am experiencing is normal, so they probably wouldn't change tailcaps. I guess I'll just wait and see if more people with the new version have the same issue.


----------



## bykfixer

Elzetta may have built in a "gas pedal"-esque feature like SureFire has with some of their lights. 

Example, a light press (short travel) for momentary turns it to a less than high output and a firmer press (longer travel) but not enough to engage the clicker results in high output? With the thread slop somehow playing a role? 

Previous Elzetta tail caps typically have had a longer travel (than many) before engaging the clicker to ensure the ability to signal without accidently engaging the clicker to on.


----------



## Hemicrusher

bykfixer said:


> Elzetta may have built in a "gas pedal"-esque feature like SureFire has with some of their lights.
> 
> Example, a light press (short travel) for momentary turns it to a less than high output and a firmer press (longer travel) but not enough to engage the clicker results in high output? With the thread slop somehow playing a role?
> 
> Previous Elzetta tail caps typically have had a longer travel (than many) before engaging the clicker to ensure the ability to signal without accidently engaging the clicker to on.


I'm getting used to the quirky nature of it, but I'll be honest...Elzetta needs to have someone re-write their entire website and explain all of this. 

Also, me obsessively playing with it, seems to be breaking in the switch and it's not acting as wonky as it was when I got it the other day.


----------



## aznsx

Hemicrusher said:


> I assume the Alpha has low voltage protection, so no need to use protected cells?
> 
> Thanks!



BTW: As a very experienced professional, _in my opinion, _I can think of no other word to describe what you're experiencing, as described later in this thread, than the highly technical term: FLAKY. Not a term I like to use, especially when describing a flashlight.

I know nothing about this light or its ancestors, but I'm not sure why you're assuming that it has "low voltage protection". I might have assumed that too, since I gather this is an update to a previous model to (among other things) incorporate support for the common lithium ion chemistry (16340) cells, so one would hope that would include a 'low-voltage _indication'_. However, have you looked at the 'run-time' graph on the web site product page? What I see is a 'low voltage indication' feature, which is even notated on the graph, for the blue line - CR123A. What I see on the orange line ('16340') is a vertical drop at the end. If true, this is odd, and the opposite of what I'd have expected. I think they're recommending a 'high-drain IMR' 16340, but most (if not all) of the ones I have don't incorporate a 'low voltage' cutoff circuit, which makes it all the more odd. So far I haven't seen the recommended cell on their site, although I guess they do sell a 16340 for their G-EDC-RCR, but I'm not sure what its characteristics are.

Let me know if I'm missing something here, as I was contemplating possibly ordering one of these, but am slowly talking myself out of it.

Edit: Maybe that vertical drop at the end of the orange line is in fact the 'low-voltage' indication I mention, only the _indication _is 'darkness', which is not ever my preferred indication. I prefer something like an 'off-on' blink or the like, such as one apparently gets with the CR123A, but maybe 'darkness' just 'is what it is'.


----------



## bykfixer

The Elzetta battery has low voltage protection. I use one in my PKDL PR-1 now.

My old regulated Alphas using primaries have a nice long taper as the battery depletes if one is using a single stage tailcap. If using a hi/lo it down shifts to low then tapers. No insta-dark using primaries.

Can't speak for the gen 3 nor have I looked at runtime graphs for it but I would surmize running it on a primary one would get the same results as gen's 1 and 2.

Edit: I just looked at the graph at Elzetta and the orange line spikes a bit just before it drops. But as Elzetta has always said if you absolutely, positively need the light to work, (LEO/CQB) the use of a rechargeable is not reccomended.


----------



## Random Dan

If it allows CR123s then it almost certainly does not have a low voltage cutoff for 16340s, since that cutoff would prevent the usage of CR123s. To get around that you have to do something fancy like HDS does where it detects the voltage and decides whether the battery is 16340 or CR123. But if they implemented that feature they'd probably advertise it.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Random Dan said:


> If it allows CR123s then it almost certainly does not have a low voltage cutoff for 16340s, since that cutoff would prevent the usage of CR123s. To get around that you have to do something fancy like HDS does where it detects the voltage and decides whether the battery is 16340 or CR123. But if they implemented that feature they'd probably advertise it.


What you said makes the most sense. The kicker is that Elzetta has the bare minimum amount of info about their products.


----------



## thermal guy

Just ran my generation 3 alpha on high for 37 minutes till shut off “a fenix 700 mah” so runtime they list is spot on.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Okay, I filmed the Alpha V.3 with the High/Low cap acting wonky. First flash is my phone's camera adjusting to the light, then you see a second flash, a second later. *This happens in momentary, with the tailcap fully tightened*. Pressing the switch in momentary will turn the light on, but a second later, it jumps up 30+%, This is repeatable, but only after the light has been off for awhile. If I turn the light off and on in momentary high a few times, it stops acting like this and will reliably turn on to momentary high. Set the light down for awhile, it will act wonky again. This does not happen with the tailcap loosened in low mode. Only when the tailcap is fully tightened in high mode.

Do you all think this is a tailcap or driver issue?

Here is the video of it happening.


----------



## thermal guy

Ya definitely not like any of mine. I’d get hold of them.


----------



## coffeecup66

Hi Hemicrusher;
You don't want to have it fixed ? (or at least checked)

Cheers.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> Ya definitely not like any of mine. I’d get hold of them.


I had an email exchange with them yesterday, and they wanted me to send in the tailcap. Took the video this morning and sent it to them as a follow up and asking if I should just send in the entire light.

I really don't want to play the $8 USPS shipping back and forth game, if they then want the entire light because they can't duplicate the issue.


----------



## Hemicrusher

coffeecup66 said:


> Hi Hemicrusher;
> You don't want to have it fixed ? (or at least checked)
> 
> Cheers.


See my reply above this.

*Edit: They want the entire light after looking at the video.*


----------



## Grizzman

How does it act when the tailcap isn't installed? If you connect the battery's negative contact to the body threads, it should immediately go to high. If it does anything wonky, then the tailcap isn't the cause......since it's not in the electrical circuit.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Grizzman said:


> How does it act when the tailcap isn't installed? If you connect the battery's negative contact to the body threads, it should immediately go to high. If it does anything wonky, then the tailcap isn't the cause......since it's not in the electrical circuit.


I just boxed it up, so can't test it.

I'll follow up here when I get it back, or hear from Elzetta.


----------



## thermal guy

What grizzman said! Just take a paper clip or knife blade and touch back of battery to end of battery tube. Should come on full blast.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> What grizzman said! Just take a paper clip or knife blade and touch back of battery to end of battery tube. Should come on full blast.


Already in the mail heading to Elzetta. They wanted the whole light after seeing the vid.


----------



## thermal guy

*I contacted elzetta and spoke to an engineer. He informed me the the alpha does not have low voltage protection and it's designed to shut off at around 2.5 volts not sure how that works if it doesn’t have low voltage protection. most protected cells cut out at 2.6. Obviously if your running unprotected cells you will have to monitor this or you may ruin your cell. There must be something I'm not getting because I ran a primary cell till low voltage starting blinking and pulled the cell. It was at 1.7 so she really sucks the juice out of a primary but if it's supposed to shut down at 2.5 why does it let a primary go way under that? Either way I'm very happy with it and run time on a primary is very long with not much lose in output.*


----------



## coffeecup66

thermal guy said:


> *I contacted elzetta and spoke to an engineer. He informed me the the alpha does not have low voltage protection and it's designed to shut off at around 2.5 volts not sure how that works if it doesn’t have low voltage protection. most protected cells cut out at 2.6. Obviously if your running unprotected cells you will have to monitor this or you may ruin your cell. There must be something I'm not getting because I ran a primary cell till low voltage starting blinking and pulled the cell. It was at 1.7 so she really sucks the juice out of a primary but if it's supposed to shut down at 2.5 why does it let a primary go way under that? Either way I'm very happy with it and run time on a primary is very long with not much lose in output.*


Remind me, what "Generation" alpha did you use for this "run-batt.-down-to-1.7volts" test ?

Also, thanks for all the good info provided.

Cheers.


----------



## thermal guy

Generation 3. Newest model


----------



## aznsx

Hemicrusher said:


> Just got this delivered.



Thanx very much for posting this photo. It provides spec info (on the pkg.) that I needed to see, but was unable to find by searching for it on the web site - which I find more than a little strange, but at least it's on the pkg. You saved me from having to buy the light to read the pkg. to determine whether or not I wanted to buy the light, and if that sounds dumb, it should, because it would be. Alphas aren't exactly hanging on the rack at a hardware store for me to go read. Anyway, thanks, as you coincidentally did me a big favor!


----------



## aznsx

Random Dan said:


> If it allows CR123s then it almost certainly does not have a low voltage cutoff for 16340s, since that cutoff would prevent the usage of CR123s. To get around that you have to do something fancy like HDS does where it detects the voltage and decides whether the battery is 16340 or CR123. But if they implemented that feature they'd probably advertise it.



Not really very "fancy" in '21 - more like 'old hat' to me now, but perhaps I'm just spoiled. I _expect_ this feature in a modern, quality design. Both of the two Fenix 1xCR123A/16340 lights I use (PD25 & RC09) employ this technique for enabling their 'Low Voltage Warning / Indication' feature, and as I recall they're about 5 years old now, and cost _far_ less than the newly updated light under discussion here. It appears to work very well in practice / my experience, I would also add. That's why I was surprised (actually shocked) to find that this new light (apparently) lacks this feature. One need not spend big money to get good features these days, but that said, when one does spend 'good money', they should expect good features.

Coincidentally, I was pleasantly surprised when, having slipped a bit and lost track of my SOC just last week (yes, it can happen), I discovered that my ET D25C MKII also incorporates 'low voltage warning indication', which was likely added with the MKII update for, among other improvements, 'proper' 16340 (lithium ion) support (sound familiar?). As far as I can determine, that 'feature' is not documented anywhere in the product documentation / specifications info, but it's there, and that was a very pleasant surprise for me! Edit: 'Pleasant' meaning it didn't punish me for my error by leaving me in sudden and sustained darkness, which in my use environment(s), can seriously compromise my personal safety.


----------



## bykfixer

It does not have low voltage protection because it was designed to work with primary batteries. It does however have the capability of using RCR batteries for that extra kick they can provide.

Elzetta has always built lights around primary batteries but with so many police opting for rechargeable batteries these days have added to option for those as well.


----------



## nmiller

Anybody try the high candela head yet? Any thoughts?


----------



## aznsx

bykfixer said:


> It does not have low voltage protection because it was designed to work with primary batteries. It does however have the capability of using RCR batteries for that extra kick they can provide.
> 
> Elzetta has always built lights around primary batteries but with so many police opting for rechargeable batteries these days have added to option for those as well.



To quote something a great flashaholic once said:
"Welp, that's it. You've talked me out of one. My wallet thanks you."


----------



## Rob Babcock

There are a few applications where rechargeables are not ready for prime time. One is WMLs on guns with heavy recoil. I've seen quite a few 18650s get their tops smashed in from the recoil when mounted on a shotgun.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Well after 2-1/2 weeks, I just got back my Alpha Gen 3 from getting repaired/replaced. (Link to my post above, describing the issue). Elzetta stated... *"Tested and found an electronic ground deficiency in the driver module. Replaced driver module. Tested and confirmed 100% factory spec operation"*

Anyhow, it appears to be working correctly.


----------



## AstroTurf

Hemicrusher said:


> Well after 2-1/2 weeks, I just got back my Alpha Gen 3 from getting repaired/replaced. (Link to my post above, describing the issue). Elzetta stated... *"Tested and found an electronic ground deficiency in the driver module. Replaced driver module. Tested and confirmed 100% factory spec operation"*
> 
> Anyhow, it appears to be working correctly.


congrats!!!


----------



## aznsx

Hemicrusher said:


> Well after 2-1/2 weeks, I just got back my Alpha Gen 3 from getting repaired/replaced. (Link to my post above, describing the issue). Elzetta stated... *"Tested and found an electronic ground deficiency in the driver module. Replaced driver module. Tested and confirmed 100% factory spec operation"*
> 
> Anyhow, it appears to be working correctly.



Thanx for that follow-up. Sounds like they responded as I expected ( consistent with their reputation), deserve extra points for providing a basic description of the root cause, and that root cause is also typical of what I generally expected. Good ending, and their response speaks well of them. Enjoy!!


----------



## thermal guy

I’m absolutely loving mine. Been carrying it everyday since I got it. I see the eBay guy that was selling them at a greatly reduced price is nowhere to be found on there now. Should of gotten another when I had the chance.


----------



## Hemicrusher

So, I get my Alpha back from repair, seems to work perfect. Played with it a total of five minutes and than went about my evening. Woke up at 5 AM, used the Alpha and it only comes on low....High/Low tail cap is tightened all the way. If I loosen it, it still runs on low. Pull the battery out and checked it on my DMM and it's at 2.806v. Popped in a new CR123a, and high now works. Switching between a fresh CR123a and the 2.806v one, Fresh = High, 2.806v = Low only.

Anyhow, does the Alpha really drop out to low only at 2.8v? Is this because of 16350 compatibility and the type of driver?


----------



## thermal guy

Hemicrusher said:


> So, I get my Alpha back from repair, seems to work perfect. Played with it a total of five minutes and than went about my evening. Woke up at 5 AM, used the Alpha and it only comes on low....High/Low tail cap is tightened all the way. If I loosen it, it still runs on low. Pull the battery out and checked it on my DMM and it's at 2.806v. Popped in a new CR123a, and high now works. Switching between a fresh CR123a and the 2.806v one, Fresh = High, 2.806v = Low only.
> 
> Anyhow, does the Alpha really drop out to low only at 2.8v? Is this because of 16350 compatibility and the type of driver?


Yup. A primary at 2.8 unless it’s on a low voltage led say a malkoff M31 is basically dead. Just put one that was 2.86 in my alpha and it’s low only.

shouldn’t happen after 5 minutes though. I have run primary cells in mine and they last quite awhile on high. Sure your cell was new?


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> Yup. A primary at 2.8 unless it’s on a low voltage led say a malkoff M31 is basically dead. Just put one that was 2.86 in my alpha and it’s low only.
> 
> shouldn’t happen after 5 minutes though. I have run primary cells in mine and they last quite awhile on high. Sure your cell was new?


Well, it was the battery that Elzetta sent the repaired Alpha back with. Silly me for thinking Elzetta would pop a fresh cell in it after testing and warranty work.


----------



## AstroTurf

free and good... pick one


----------



## Hemicrusher

AstroTurf said:


> free and good... pick one


?


----------



## thermal guy

Hemicrusher said:


> Well, it was the battery that Elzetta sent the repaired Alpha back with. Silly me for thinking Elzetta would pop a fresh cell in it after testing and warranty work.


Try a new cell. See if it’s any better.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> Try a new cell. See if it’s any better.


I did, as I stated above.

It just surprises that Elzetta would ship it back with a depleted battery. I used it maybe 5 minutes before sending it in for warranty, and maybe another 5 when I got it back yesterday. Meaning they used it while testing the defective light.

Glad I had to spend $8 to ship a defective light for repair and they saved $1 by sending it back with a bunk battery.


----------



## aznsx

Hemicrusher said:


> It just surprises that Elzetta would ship it back with a depleted battery. I used it maybe 5 minutes before sending it in for warranty, and maybe another 5 when I got it back yesterday. Meaning they used it while testing the defective light.
> 
> Glad I had to spend $8 to ship a defective light for repair and they saved $1 by sending it back with a bunk battery.



OK - maybe I'll have to deduct those 'extra points' I mentioned earlier, but at least it's repaired (hopefully).


----------



## Hemicrusher

aznsx said:


> OK - maybe I'll have to deduct those 'extra points' I mentioned earlier, but at least it's repaired (hopefully).



I am just nitpicking on the battery. I mean, I send it in because of a driver issue, get it back after 2+ weeks, and after using it for 5 minutes, it stops working on high. At first I thought it went bad again.

Anyhow, the new Alpha works flawlessly.


----------



## bykfixer

A new car comes from the dealer with a new tank full of gas. 
A car comes from the repair shop with some gas left in the tank.


----------



## Hemicrusher

bykfixer said:


> A new car comes from the dealer with a new tank full of gas.
> A car comes from the repair shop with some gas left in the tank.


I leased a new BMW 330i in July, and needed to bring it in for a software update and they filled my tank and detailed my car.


----------



## aznsx

bykfixer said:


> A new car comes from the dealer with a new tank full of gas.
> A car comes from the repair shop with some gas left in the tank.


True, and I still give them 'high marks' for their overall response - no question. A 'good' battery would have been good for '_extra_ points' though. I like to earn 'extra points' with my customers - I figure I may need them sometime! My policy is always: Under commit - over deliver.

Edit: .......but I've been in customer-facing roles for many years though, so I learned that through experience.


----------



## thermal guy

bykfixer said:


> A new car comes from the dealer with a new tank full of gas.
> A car comes from the repair shop with some gas left in the tank.


😂


----------



## Coolwhite

I bought the 315 lumen alpha a couple of years back, the battery that the light shipped with (if I recall was a battery junction brand?) also didn't last long at all, also thought my light was broken as prob had like max 20 minutes of runtime between high and low.
Put a new primary cell in and light has been great since, no issues whatsoever.
Really like the Alpha, it's a great light.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Coolwhite said:


> I bought the 315 lumen alpha a couple of years back, the battery that the light shipped with (if I recall was a battery junction brand?) also didn't last long at all, also thought my light was broken as prob had like max 20 minutes of runtime between high and low.
> Put a new primary cell in and light has been great since, no issues whatsoever.
> Really like the Alpha, it's a great light.


Elzetta uses Battery Station CR123a, same as Malkoff. Made in the US in the same factory as Surefire, Streamlite etc. I have used these same batteries in my Malkoffs, Surefire and some others, and they run as long as my Surefire CR123s. It's not the battery I had an issue with, it's that they shipped back my Alpha with a nearly dead battery.


----------



## Hemicrusher

aznsx said:


> A 'good' battery would have been good for '_extra_ points' though.


Shipping it back with a fresh battery, would be the baseline and should be expected. Shipping it back with a bunk battery, deducts points. 

A customer should expect to be whole again and not less than whole, when warranty work is done.


----------



## AstroTurf

Hemicrusher said:


> Shipping it back with a fresh battery, would be the baseline and should be expected. Shipping it back with a bunk battery, deducts points.
> 
> A customer should expect to be whole again and not less than whole, when warranty work is done.


they may have only returned to you what you sent to them...

ie removed your battery, set it aside, and reinserted it for return shipment.

if i were them and monitored this thread, no flashlight would have a battery upon return to a customer.

they are a consumable item after all.


----------



## bykfixer

Did you ever try the 415 lumen version coolwhite? 

It's has a much different looking out put. I liked the 315 a lot, but on low I much prefer the 415 beam.


----------



## AstroTurf

bykfixer said:


> Did you ever try the 415 lumen version coolwhite?
> 
> It's has a much different looking out put. I liked the 315 a lot, but on low I much prefer the 415 beam.


i tried the 415, but didnt like the tint vs the 315.

i found it to be yellow, where as the 315 was more rosy.


----------



## Coolwhite

bykfixer said:


> Did you ever try the 415 lumen version coolwhite?
> 
> It's has a much different looking out put. I liked the 315 a lot, but on low I much prefer the 415 beam.


Have not tried the 415, these are usually pretty expensive lights and wouldn't buy another for a brighter beam or tint. 
Got other makes instead, glad I got an elzetta though, it's a keeper as they say.
Also I think I may be the only elzetta owner that likes the speedclip.


----------



## Coolwhite

Hemicrusher said:


> Elzetta uses Battery Station CR123a, same as Malkoff. Made in the US in the same factory as Surefire, Streamlite etc. I have used these same batteries in my Malkoffs, Surefire and some others, and they run as long as my Surefire CR123s. It's not the battery I had an issue with, it's that they shipped back my Alpha with a nearly dead battery.


Fair enough, maybe I just had an old or dud battery in mine when I bought the light.
Agree they should have stuck a new cell in for you as a courtesy given you had to ship a brand new light back.
Glad they resolved it for you, enjoy the light, they are great.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Coolwhite said:


> Fair enough, maybe I just had an old or dud battery in mine when I bought the light.
> Agree they should have stuck a new cell in for you as a courtesy given you had to ship a brand new light back.
> Glad they resolved it for you, enjoy the light, they are great.


The Alpha v3 I got back works flawlessly. The other thing I noticed was the defective one was noticeable dimmer on high and the High/Low was not acting reliably. The replacement works exactly as advertised.


----------



## Hemicrusher

AstroTurf said:


> if i were them and monitored this thread, no flashlight would have a battery upon return to a customer.
> 
> they are a consumable item after all.


They ship new with a fresh battery, why wouldn't they do that with a warranty replace/repair? I mean, I had to pay almost $9 to ship back a defective $155 light, and wait almost three weeks to get it back.

I know it's just a $2 battery, but it only had five minutes on it, if that, when I sent it in. They obviously used that battery to test and identify the problem. Not sending a new one, is just a cheap *** move.


----------



## bykfixer

I really like the speed clip cool white. I have a few lights including non Elzetta with a speed clip. It reminds me of the surefire U2 clip.


----------



## Coolwhite

bykfixer said:


> I really like the speed clip cool white. I have a few lights including non Elzetta with a speed clip. It reminds me of the surefire U2 clip.



Good stuff, so it's not just me then,
the speed clip just seems to work great with the alpha, there were many people that really didn't like it though, think if they carried with it for a while they would have seen the benefits of it's design. 
Think many didn't like the look of it compared to most other clip designs so didn't give it a chance.


----------



## nmiller

I’ve had warranty work done on an elzetta or two in the past. They included a fresh battery and sometimes extra batteries. My guess, it was an honest mistake or just a bad battery. To me, Elzetta has always been great to work with.


----------



## bykfixer

Coolwhite said:


> Good stuff, so it's not just me then,
> the speed clip just seems to work great with the alpha, there were many people that really didn't like it though, think if they carried with it for a while they would have seen the benefits of it's design.
> Think many didn't like the look of it compared to most other clip designs so didn't give it a chance.


Oh back in the day the 315 lumen alpha and speed clip were about as popular at cpf as a turd in the swimming pool. 
The speed clip was made for the alpha, or that's how it was marketed. I bought one to try on the Bones and liked it, then another for a round head SureFire 6P, a Maglite XL50, a Pelican M6, another Bones, and Bravo. 
Funny thing is I never could figure out how to get it to stay fastened on the Alpha.


----------



## AstroTurf

i use a thyrm switchback on one of my alphas

lightweight, works great!!!


----------



## Coolwhite

Lol, exactly.
I also spent a bit of time reading the fitting instructions that came with the speed clip, once on is super solid.


----------



## bykfixer

Others said they could not get it to fasten to the Bravo but mine fastened easily if I recall correctly. I'm thinking I used spit as a lube, but it's been a few years. 
Then I found out it fits some other lights too.


----------



## Hemicrusher

nmiller said:


> I’ve had warranty work done on an elzetta or two in the past. They included a fresh battery and sometimes extra batteries. My guess, it was an honest mistake or just a bad battery. To me, Elzetta has always been great to work with.


Yeah...I am just nitpicking and the fact I had to pull my last CR123a to play with my Alpha after being gone for three weeks. 

I had assumed they sent a new battery, and when it would only do low, I was like WTF, it's failing again.

Anyhow, happy that it was all sorted.


----------



## nmiller

I understand. I’d probably have the same reaction.


----------



## Hemicrusher

AstroTurf said:


> i use a thyrm switchback on one of my alphas
> 
> lightweight, works great!!!


Any issue with the High/Low switch? I've read the Switchback is wonky on some lights because the switch can't be screwed down all the way.


----------



## Coolwhite

Here's a pic of my alpha with clip next to my vic pioneer.


----------



## AstroTurf

Hemicrusher said:


> Any issue with the High/Low switch? I've read the Switchback is wonky on some lights because the switch can't be screwed down all the way.


i use it with a momentary switch screwed down tight.

mainly used for handgun illumination.


----------



## nmiller

Hemicrusher said:


> Any issue with the High/Low switch? I've read the Switchback is wonky on some lights because the switch can't be screwed down all the way.




I use the Switchback with my Alpha hi/lo. No issues that I’ve seen. I carry it daily.


----------



## AstroTurf

anybody, anybody at all..

picked up one of these?

HC (High Candela) Head for All Bravo and Charlie Z-Line Flashlights


----------



## thermal guy

No but very curious about them as well. Should throw like a champ!
26,250 candela! Pretty damn good


----------



## Hemicrusher

Well, even after my gripping about my repair experience, I have to say, I really like the Alpha v3. Great tint, output etc. But what kicks *** is the near perfect EDC size and grip. No other light I own has such a natural feel in my hand. The only issue I have is I wish the low was around 15 lumens, but I can see where the chosen output is great for extended battery life.


----------



## AstroTurf

Hemicrusher said:


> Well, even after my gripping about my repair experience, I have to say, I really like the Alpha v3. Great tint, output etc. But what kicks *** is the near perfect EDC size and grip. No other light I own has such a natural feel in my hand. The only issue I have is I wish the low was around 15 lumens, but I can see where the chosen output is great for extended battery life.


gen 2 still available...

with a 15 lumen low.


----------



## thermal guy

Gen 3 rocks!


----------



## AstroTurf

gen 1 rocks...

harder!!!


----------



## Hemicrusher

AstroTurf said:


> gen 2 still available...
> 
> with a 15 lumen low.


What's the tint like on the Gen 2 compared to the Gen 3?


----------



## Modernflame

I've been away for a while and Elzetta has been busy! Gen 3 Alpha, a high candela AVS head, a blue version of the Bones and a website with run time graphs.


----------



## AstroTurf

Hemicrusher said:


> What's the tint like on the Gen 2 compared to the Gen 3?


i do not know.


----------



## nmiller

From what I remember the G2 is slightly yellower and the beam is not as clean. The G3 is an improvement in my opinion. Unfortunately I don’t have a G2 to post pics for you.


----------



## a1sealbeach

I traded Gen2 over Gen1 because of tint. Gen1 tint was rosy and creamy but Gen2 was greenish and harsh white. Also100 lumens difference wasn't noticeable at all. But Elzetta made big correction on Gen3 Alpha. It got the Gen1 tint back and also improvement on brightness is another welcome. I traded Gen1 over Gen3.


----------



## thermal guy

My gen3 is a tad whiter the my gen2. Not much at all. Just a lot brighter. Beam pattern looks to me the same on both.


----------



## AstroTurf

these gen 3 tint reports are infact good news

thanks everyone!!!


----------



## Hemicrusher

AstroTurf said:


> these gen 3 tint reports are infact good news
> 
> thanks everyone!!!


Yeah, I have zero issue with the Gen 3 tint. I see no green at all.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> My gen3 is a tad whiter the my gen2. Not much at all. Just a lot brighter. Beam pattern looks to me the same on both.


My Gen 3 looks to be around 4,000k when comparing it to my SST-20 4k and 219b SW45k lights.


----------



## nmiller

I broke down and ordered the HC head. When I get it I’ll let everyone know what I think.


----------



## Modernflame

nmiller said:


> I broke down and ordered the HC head. When I get it I’ll let everyone know what I think.


Looking forward to your report. I used to complain vociferously that they did not offer something like an HC optic. Never imagined that they would produce a reflector based flashlight. It is a welcome announcement.


----------



## thermal guy

Can’t wait to see how this is. I love my M91T this thing should have much better spill and throw much further.


----------



## nmiller

I really think it will be the perfect edc for me. I love the Alpha but it doesn’t always have enough throw. I asked Elzetta, it will run on a 16650/18650 cell too. Of course you will need a bored body for the 18650.


----------



## thermal guy

The gen 3 throws pretty darn good. I was surprised.


----------



## Hemicrusher

thermal guy said:


> The gen 3 throws pretty darn good. I was surprised.


Same....


----------



## nmiller

I agree. For what it is it’s great. It’s just limited by the format of the light. It’s definitely a keeper and probably my favorite light right now. Considering it’s size, output and beam shape it’s hard to beat.


----------



## thermal guy

Absolutely. But as you say it’s limited to its size. That’s why I use an M91T as well at work. Perfect work light for me.


----------



## aznsx

Thanks to all of the now several of you who have provided some subjective observations and opinions on the Gen3 Alpha. As flashlight people who bought the light for your personal use, and now have a bit of experience doing that in the real world, it's very high-value info in my book, and most helpful to those considering the light. Score another point for CPF.


----------



## nmiller

The Alpha gen 3 is great for 95% of what I do. The HC head should become my 91T. A great compliment when i need more reach. The thing I like better about the bravo is the two cell format. Being smaller than the 91T I will have no issues carrying it in a pocket if I want to. The 91T is a bit too long for me and I have enough stuff on my belt already.


----------



## thermal guy

I was thinking of trying that new head on a bravo body but I’d lose a ton of throw compared to my MD3/91T.


----------



## Modernflame

I'm looking forward to some real world feedback on how the Bravo HC performs on a 16650. The dark days of winter are approaching. I'm in the market for something with a nice punchy hot spot.


----------



## thermal guy

It’s not as bright but should have more punch then the new bones And that’s pretty damn good in the throw department. Really looking forward to seeing this in 4500K. The new bones is nice but it’s the whitest led I have seen. Great for throw but not really eye pleasing.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Question...Except the 20% off new customer discount, does Elzetta ever send discounts to existing customers? I am thinking of buying a Bravo, but the price is a bit steep.


----------



## AstroTurf

Hemicrusher said:


> Question...Except the 20% off new customer discount, does Elzetta ever send discounts to existing customers? I am thinking of buying a Bravo, but the price is a bit steep.


Registered/Logged-In Users will now see an Insider discount on ALL PRODUCTS in their cart!!

Sign-up for our Newsletter, the Elzetta Insider, and receive a one-time 20% OFF your first order!!

(May not be combined with any other offer or coupon. / Must be logged in at time of purchase. Use Code: subscribe20)​


----------



## Hemicrusher

AstroTurf said:


> Registered/Logged-In Users will now see an Insider discount on ALL PRODUCTS in their cart!!
> 
> Sign-up for our Newsletter, the Elzetta Insider, and receive a one-time 20% OFF your first order!!
> 
> (May not be combined with any other offer or coupon. / Must be logged in at time of purchase. Use Code: subscribe20)​


I was hoping for a little better than the 10% Insider Discount. beyond the 20% that I got on my first order. I have two 15% discounts and one 20% to use later from Malkoff, and even got a 20% on my first purchase.

So, I take it that the 10% is it for future orders with Elzetta? Not complaining, I mean 10% is better than 0%.


----------



## bykfixer

Often they have a black friday 15% off, but not every year from what I recall. 
Every so often I get a newsletter with a discount coupon.


----------



## JPA261

So I bought an Alpha Gen 3 with the high low tailcap. Is anyone else experiencing like a buzzing noise from the head or the light flickering. Mine flickers on occasion and sometimes it goes from like the old 415 lumen setting to the 500. Very inconsistent. Lastly, mine does not step down to 415 lumens after 10sec. Very disappointed.


----------



## aznsx

JPA261 said:


> So I bought an Alpha Gen 3 with the high low tailcap. Is anyone else experiencing like a buzzing noise from the head or the light flickering. Mine flickers on occasion and sometimes it goes from like the old 415 lumen setting to the 500. Very inconsistent. Lastly, mine does not step down to 415 lumens after 10sec. Very disappointed.



...and disappointing to hear JPA. I can only offer sympathy, but I can certainly sympathize.

You may not be in the mood for questions, but when you are...

Are your problem symptoms while using a CR123A, or lithium ion 16340, or both - and if both, are they each the same with either type, and have you tried more than one of which ever type applies? 

Knowing that may help those familiar with the light as they contemplate the issue(s).


----------



## Hemicrusher

JPA261 said:


> So I bought an Alpha Gen 3 with the high low tailcap. Is anyone else experiencing like a buzzing noise from the head or the light flickering. Mine flickers on occasion and sometimes it goes from like the old 415 lumen setting to the 500. Very inconsistent. Lastly, mine does not step down to 415 lumens after 10sec. Very disappointed.


Check out my posts here on page 205. Sounds like you might be having a similar issue that I had.


----------



## nmiller

The HC head came today. Initial impressions……. It’s big. The tint is great. Looks very similar to the alpha gen 3. The beam has rings. Saying that, I haven’t had a chance to use it for real though. I don’t think the rings will be noticeable in real world use.


----------



## nmiller

One more picture for size reference.


----------



## JPA261

aznsx said:


> ...and disappointing to hear JPA. I can only offer sympathy, but I can certainly sympathize.
> 
> You may not be in the mood for questions, but when you are...
> 
> Are your problem symptoms while using a CR123A, or lithium ion 16340, or both - and if both, are they each the same with either type, and have you tried more than one of which ever type applies?
> 
> Knowing that may help those familiar with the light as they contemplate the issue(s).


So I only run CR123A batteries in this light and no rechargeables. Tried the battery junction that it came with and swapped it out with a fresh Surefire battery with the same issues.


----------



## wacbzz

Coolwhite said:


> Good stuff, so it's not just me then,
> the speed clip just seems to work great with the alpha, there were many people that really didn't like it though, think if they carried with it for a while they would have seen the benefits of it's design.
> Think many didn't like the look of it compared to most other clip designs so didn't give it a chance.


 It is just the two of you. 

Elzetta has the EXACT same problem as HDS - they designed a spectacular flashlight with a clip as a pure afterthought. 

It is frankly EXACTLY why both clips completely suck and why I carry neither brand of flashlight on a daily basis. They all sit in their respective packaging in the back of my closet.


----------



## AstroTurf

nmiller said:


> The HC head came today. Initial impressions……. It’s big. The tint is great. Looks very similar to the alpha gen 3. The beam has rings. Saying that, I haven’t had a chance to use it for real though. I don’t think the rings will be noticeable in real world use.


those rings are fugly!!!

thanks for the update!

Jim


----------



## Coolwhite

wacbzz said:


> It is just the two of you.
> 
> Elzetta has the EXACT same problem as HDS - they designed a spectacular flashlight with a clip as a pure afterthought.
> 
> It is frankly EXACTLY why both clips completely suck and why I carry neither brand of flashlight on a daily basis. They all sit in their respective packaging in the back of my closet.


At least there are two of us that like the speed clip then. 😆


----------



## thermal guy

HDS had the perfect clip design with there older lights. “ U42/U60 etc”. Two holes two screws. Worked great.Hell, guys on here we’re make TI versions. Oh the good old days. Now the newer models don’t need clips. My understanding is they are balanced well enough that the counter weigh of the clip is not needed to keep them from falling off a display shelf.


----------



## bykfixer

I use a Speed Clip/wrist strap combo for a quick deploy 2 finger centrifugal device under the worst conditions. PK taught me that trick while explaining the reason the potato masher Icon light (called Rogue) came with a neck lanyard. 
Under better conditions it's easy to slide the loop over the hand for anti-droppsies.


----------



## aznsx

JPA261 said:


> So I only run CR123A batteries in this light and no rechargeables. Tried the battery junction that it came with and swapped it out with a fresh Surefire battery with the same issues.



Let us know if you've had a chance to confer with Elzetta Support about this. That's likely the best course of action, and I'll be curious as to their response / comments. Thanx!


----------



## JPA261

aznsx said:


> Let us know if you've had a chance to confer with Elzetta Support about this. That's likely the best course of action, and I'll be curious as to their response / comments. Thanx!


So I got my alpha back pretty fast. They told me that there was too much grease and suggested that I use isopropyl alcohol and using 400 grit scotch brite pad to clean the the ground surfaces of the body/ tailcap. Got it back and really much better.

Really happy with their customer service!


----------



## aznsx

JPA261 said:


> So I got my alpha back pretty fast. They told me that there was too much grease and suggested that I use isopropyl alcohol and using 400 grit scotch brite pad to clean the the ground surfaces of the body/ tailcap. Got it back and really much better.
> 
> Really happy with their customer service!



Great to hear that! Enjoy, and now that it's functioning well, do post any comments observations you come up with along the way as you make friends with it!


----------



## AstroTurf

JPA261 said:


> So I got my alpha back pretty fast. They told me that there was too much grease and suggested that I use isopropyl alcohol and using 400 grit scotch brite pad to clean the the ground surfaces of the body/ tailcap. Got it back and really much better.
> 
> Really happy with their customer service!


kind of surprised by this...

did you overgrease, or did they?

thanks


----------



## nmiller

Update on the HC Head: overall, I like it. The rings only show up during close up work and don’t bother me. I don’t think any Elzetta beams are pretty close up. They do work well though. I have a great combo with the Alpha and the HC head.


----------



## thermal guy

nmiller said:


> Update on the HC Head: overall, I like it. The rings only show up during close up work and don’t bother me. I don’t think any Elzetta beams are pretty close up. They do work well though. I have a great combo with the Alpha and the HC head.


do you have a M91T? Wondering how it compares.


----------



## nmiller

I do not. The M91T probably has more throw being a 3 cell light while the HC head still has some decent flood to it.


----------



## thermal guy

Well the HC head on 3 cells is pushing 26,000 lux compared to the 91T’s 19,000 was just curious if you had it on a 3 cell. It should throw quite a bit more.


----------



## nmiller

I have it on the two cell. If you were to buy one you won’t be disappointed. However, the HC head is big. I’d say wider and longer than the M91T. I’m not sure it’s worth replacing the M91T unless you want a more neutral tint. The tint of the HC is very similar if not the same as the new Alpha.


----------



## thermal guy

Nice.


----------



## 3oni

I just received my first Elzetta light, a gen.2 Alpha (A113). Still waiting on my Prometheus clip, but this light is exactly what I hoped it would be.

Their 30% off sale on gen.2s is great, and after comparing gen.2 and gen.3 I prefer the gen.2 overall. No strobe (which I will only activate by accident), no burst followed by a step-down, and around 400 lumens -- which I've discovered is pretty much perfect for my day-to-day needs.

The nearly-silent latch on this switch is going to take some getting used to!


----------



## bykfixer

Like the older Pelican lights and Pentagon lights the Elzetta clicky has momementary operation as it's base with the ability to click it to stay on. Travel until it clicks is much longer than many clicky's and you 'feel' the button engage instead of hearing it.


----------



## 3oni

bykfixer said:


> Like the older Pelican lights and Pentagon lights the Elzetta clicky has momementary operation as it's base with the ability to click it to stay on. Travel until it clicks is much longer than many clicky's and you 'feel' the button engage instead of hearing it.



Perfect description and good to know. Thank you!


----------



## Slumber

With use, they get louder.


----------



## Modernflame

nmiller said:


> Update on the HC Head: overall, I like it. The rings only show up during close up work and don’t bother me. I don’t think any Elzetta beams are pretty close up. They do work well though. I have a great combo with the Alpha and the HC head.


How is the throw compared to the standard AVS?


----------



## nmiller

I don’t have an old AVS head to compare anymore but it definitely has a lot more throw. The HC head has a very defined hotspot with some issuable flood. From what I remember the AVS head is more flood with some reach to it. My yard is about 200 feet deep. The AVS head (to my eyes) didn’t clearly light up things from one end to the other. I could see the light from the AVS head across the whole yard, but no hot spot. The HC head illuminates objects at that 200 feet and makes the easy enough to identify and still has some flood to it. The two heads to me are somewhat opposites in design and compliment each other well. So far, every time I’m outside I use the HC head. Inside the Alpha is preferred, but the HC works. Hopefully this helps. The more I use the HC head the more I like it.


----------



## bykfixer

Wonder if they'll ever offer a high candella Bones.


----------



## aginthelaw

I got the same return. I don’t know if they use batteries just to test the lights and maybe they don’t bother to take them out


----------



## bykfixer

Slumber Pass said:


> With use, they get louder.


I used to wonder if Elzetta had bought the design Pentagon used. Theirs got a bit louder over time too. The Pentagon had a lot less travel to on though.

Pelican used something similar on the M1/M6 lights, but theirs had issues with the click engagement failing after a while. Many used Kroll clicky's with an adapter back in the day.


----------



## 3oni

My Prometheus clip came in the mail, and every configuration of O rings I've tried to keep it firmly in place on my Alpha is imperfect in some way. With both rings installed (above/below), they squidge out and it looks awful. One above or one below looks perfect but the clip isn't really locked into place -- and whenever I use the hi/lo head, it moves.

This isn't the end of the world, but I'm used to flashlight clips staying in place better than this one does. Are there any clever hacks or workarounds I maybe just haven't heard of that could help?


----------



## Dicaeopolis

I have never tried a Prometheus clip on my Alpha. I do actually like the Elzetta clip, but took it off because I usually just put the Alpha in my pocket if I carry it. On other lights I just don't tighten it enough to bulge the ring out. If it still moves, I would just try a thicker O ring from the hardware store, that way you only have one and it will take up more space.


----------



## thermal guy

I use a lanyard ring on mine.


----------



## aginthelaw

Just got my b333. I’m not thrilled about the “silent” switch. It sounds like the shoes i used to wear in 4th grade. I’ve used silent switches and this ain’t it. The edges on the body contours are pretty sharp. If you plan on using this aggressively with bare hands it’s gonna do some damage. But i bruise like a grape. 
It is the 850 lumens version. It’s not the perfect light, but it comes pretty close.


----------



## 3oni

aginthelaw said:


> The edges on the body contours are pretty sharp.


After a few weeks of regular carry and use, all of those little spots on my Alpha have settled down a bit. Not quite "softened," not really "worn," but in that same space? It's still grippier than, say, my Malkoff MD2, but not as aggressive as it was at first.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Holy moly, this Elzetta thread that I started turns 10 years old tomorrow!!


----------



## novice

And I read all 200+ pages about a year-and-a-half ago, when I was contemplating buying my first of two Elzettas, a Bravo with a ZFL-M60 head, and I needed to become an informed consumer, so thank you for starting this thread!


----------



## bykfixer

3oni said:


> After a few weeks of regular carry and use, all of those little spots on my Alpha have settled down a bit. Not quite "softened," not really "worn," but in that same space? It's still grippier than, say, my Malkoff MD2, but not as aggressive as it was at first.


When PK first came out with his FL2, a sorta 6P2.0 he was really proud of the extremely accurate machine work and noted it had a "firm grip, even with bloody hands"……so when it was brand new if you carried it in your hand for a while your palm felt like it had been sanded. Yet after a few days the mega grip was still there but the sharp edges had become a lot smoother.

How? Got me. But it sounds like the newer Elzetta products have a similar situation. Often the true tactical light is carried by people wearing tactical gloves so the mega-grip aspect is not bothersome simply because they don't use the light for duty bare handed.






The top one has perhaps an hour of use. The bottom one has dozens of hours of use. 
If you look at the top one you can see peaks that are rounded on the bottom one, yet the coating is still intact. 
My thinking is that is the case with the Elzetta lights too.


----------



## Hemicrusher

Anyone compare the Alpha Gen 3 LED to a current Bones? Are they the same?


----------



## thermal guy

Night and day. The alpha gen 3 is very neutral I’d say 4000-4500. The bones is white. Very very white. Works great to get the light out there.


----------



## aginthelaw

Elzetta is selling out their second gen alpha to make way for the 3rd gen. Only $105. Should I get it? What’s in the 3rd gen that would make me pass up this deal?


----------



## 3oni

aginthelaw said:


> Elzetta is selling out their second gen alpha to make way for the 3rd gen. Only $105. Should I get it? What’s in the 3rd gen that would make me pass up this deal?


About 100 more lumens as a short initial burst, a strobe option, and I think perhaps a slightly different tint.

Strobe and burst with quick falloff are minuses for me, so I went with the gen.2. It's darned near my ideal smaller EDC light.


----------



## aznsx

aginthelaw said:


> Elzetta is selling out their second gen alpha to make way for the 3rd gen. Only $105. Should I get it? What’s in the 3rd gen that would make me pass up this deal?



Gen3 is listed as having a CCT of 4500K, which I believe differs from Gen2. I like the output, so I might (probably) like the Gen2 less if it's much different.

There's a strobe feature, but I don't want to use it and am not even aware it exists in practice. I tried it once just to find out how to avoid it, and found I was barely able to activate it when trying to, which is fine for me. It would be highly unlikely for me to ever activate it accidentally.

My biggest reason: 16340 lithium ion (3.6/3/7V) support / compatibility. The ability to use those secondary cells is a big deal for me, as is the considerably higher INITIAL output period it affords (which I consider a big plus in my use). The curves look like this (check both graphs).



https://elzetta.com/the-elzetta-alpha-gen3-modular-flashlight/


----------



## fulee9999

Did Elzetta close shops? I went through my flashlight "bucket list" - that I want to eventually get -, and I noticed that all the ZFL-M60s were gone from amazon, and I checked the official site and there are no flashlights available.
Did they just go out of business...?


----------



## thermal guy

Elzetta changed their design So they are long gone. They pop up for sale now and then. They are probably the toughest light you can get when they have the old style head.


----------



## bykfixer

fulee9999 said:


> Did Elzetta close shops? I went through my flashlight "bucket list" - that I want to eventually get -, and I noticed that all the ZFL-M60s were gone from amazon, and I checked the official site and there are no flashlights available.
> Did they just go out of business...?


I bought lights from them on black Friday. 


https://elzetta.com/


----------



## thermal guy

Think he’s looking for their old style heads that fit malkoff Dropins


----------



## fulee9999

Yep, I was trying to get a hold of the Malkoff variants initially, but also if you check elzetta.com every alpha, bravo and charlie are out of stock.
( except of course the gen2 alpha )

Other than the new G-line and the gen2 alpha currently I think everything else is out of stock.


----------



## thermal guy

Wow. Out of everything. A lot of that going around.


----------



## AstroTurf

all is not out of stock...

some items are out, but not all.

change your purchase config a big to see.


----------



## Repsol600rr

Time to see what all the fuss is about I suppose. Gen2 alpha 113 sale model and speedclip on the way. Seems like the output options are gonna be really useful.


----------



## 3oni

Repsol600rr said:


> Time to see what all the fuss is about I suppose. Gen2 alpha 113 sale model and speedclip on the way. Seems like the output options are gonna be really useful.


They are damn near perfect for day to day tasks.


----------



## thermal guy

I’ll tell you I have been carrying my gen3 for well over a month now every day and it really is a great edc.


----------



## nmiller

I want to echo what Thermal said. The gen3 Alpha is an excellent EDC. I’ve been carrying mine since I got it. I’d call it Just short of perfect. 

Quick question for the Charlie owners. Will the AVS or HC head run 2xAA? Can someone check for me? Thanks!


----------



## thermal guy

nmiller said:


> I want to echo what Thermal said. The gen3 Alpha is an excellent EDC. I’ve been carrying mine since I got it. I’d call it Just short of perfect.
> 
> Quick question for the Charlie owners. Will the AVS or HC head run 2xAA? Can someone check for me? Thanks!


The AVS will I did a runtime test with it. Have to see if I can find it but ran for a long time


----------



## nmiller

Thanks much. Any idea what the output was?


----------



## thermal guy

Not the greatest but usable. 50 lumens or so for first 1 1/2 hours then long taper for 10-12 hours. But it does work.


----------



## nmiller

Thanks again. Maybe I should just get a true AA based light….


----------



## Repsol600rr

It may already have been answered somewhere in this behemoth of a thread, but what's the usability of the gen2 alpha I just ordered on k2 lifepo4 cells like used as a rechargeable option for some surefires. I have them for my edcl1-t and they work fine albiet somewhat reduced runtimes. I'm figuring it will be the same case here, which I find perfectly acceptable if so.


----------



## AstroTurf

Repsol600rr said:


> It may already have been answered somewhere in this behemoth of a thread, but what's the usability of the gen2 alpha I just ordered on k2 lifepo4 cells like used as a rechargeable option for some surefires. I have them for my edcl1-t and they work fine albiet somewhat reduced runtimes. I'm figuring it will be the same case here, which I find perfectly acceptable if so.


Will an Elzetta Tactical LED Flashlight run on rechargeable RCR123 batteries?Alpha and Bravo Models may be operated on RCR123 batteries for non-critical applications, but *Charlie Models should not use these batteries under any circumstances!*


----------



## Repsol600rr

Thanks. I was reading around and got the impression that 16340 (3.7 volt rcr123) support was added with the gen 3. The terms for that size rechargable are always confusing considering its offered in 2 different chemistry resulting in different volatages and Ive seen both called rcr123. I'm not planning on sticking a 3.7 volt 16340 in the gen2 just in case. But with that I'll try my 3.2 volt one.


----------



## 3oni

Repsol600rr said:


> I'm not planning on sticking a 3.7 volt 16340 in the gen2 just in case. But with that I'll try my 3.2 volt one.


Keeppower makes a protected 16340 that's regulated to 3.0 volts; might be worth checking out.


----------



## bykfixer

Post #1065 spoke of a Bravo/AVS running on a pair of K2's without issue so I would surmize that one would be ok in an Alpha.


16340 is a common term for RCR123 batteries but that also tends to speak of the 3.7 volt+ kind. But as you see in #4267 not always.


----------



## thermal guy

AstroTurf said:


> Will an Elzetta Tactical LED Flashlight run on rechargeable RCR123 batteries?Alpha and Bravo Models may be operated on RCR123 batteries for non-critical applications, but *Charlie Models should not use these batteries under any circumstances!*


But only the gen3 alpha right? Gen 2 can’t use 16340’s can it?


----------



## AstroTurf

thermal guy said:


> But only the gen3 alpha right? Gen 2 can’t use 16340’s can it?


info found in faq...



https://elzetta.com/faq/faq-flashlights/


----------



## thermal guy

really? I was under the impression that previous gen alph’s could not take a 16340. Well this is good to know.


----------



## bykfixer

They don't play nice with the 3.7 kind like Elzetta sells. But 3.2 type like SureFire are ok.


----------



## thermal guy

bykfixer said:


> They don't play nice with the 3.7 kind like Elzetta sells. But 3.2 type like SureFire are ok.


That’s what I thought but according to an email I just got regular 16340’s are ok in them


----------



## Repsol600rr

This is why I asked. Interesting info. Thanks fellas.


----------



## Repsol600rr

bykfixer said:


> Post #1065 spoke of a Bravo/AVS running on a pair of K2's without issue so I would surmize that one would be ok in an Alpha.
> 
> 
> 16340 is a common term for RCR123 batteries but that also tends to speak of the 3.7 volt+ kind. But as you see in #4267 not always.


This looks like it refers to 2 in a bravo. So I would think that means 1 in an alpha should be gtg. Thanks


----------



## bykfixer

I only run primaries in my Elzetta Z-Line lights but it's good to know the option is there.


----------



## AstroTurf

Cree XHP 70 LED said:


> Now I'm replying to myself...I need some sleep.


and what was your answer?!?

LOLz


----------



## bykfixer




----------



## Repsol600rr

My 113 alpha gen2 arrives yesterday. Due to the joys of work schedules I didnt get to play with it too much but it seems to be exactly as expected. Chunky little guy that feels like I could throw it around without hurting it. Brightness levels, as expected, are a touch higher than edc1l-t on the low end and a bit dimmer on the high end, with a much nicer tint. So should work better for my purposes, just wish the edc1l-t had these levels and tint. Preliminary findings show the 3.2 volt k2 cell to work perfectly and I'll do my own laymans run time test tonight, and install the speedclip. Glad I jumped in before they are gone.


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## arKmm

My first Elzetta arrived. Treated myself to a C133 for work. Build quality is great, but I was a little disappointed at the slightly off-centre emitter ruining the beam profile. I was also surprised at how low-CRI it is. I compared it against a Stinger HL and the Stinger had better colour rendition!

Switch/UI is lovely though. Form factor great for what I need too.


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## Repsol600rr

Got a bit more than 25 minutes continuously running high with the k2 lifepo4 rcr123 before I noticed a drop with my mk2(glasses hehe) eyeball. Output drop is very rapid after that. Light gets warm but not hot. About what I was expecting and what I signed up for. Does anyone elses tailcap leave marks in the batteries? The spring seems pretty sharp.


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## neutralwhite

arKmm said:


> My first Elzetta arrived. Treated myself to a C133 for work. Build quality is great, but I was a little disappointed at the slightly off-centre emitter ruining the beam profile. I was also surprised at how low-CRI it is. I compared it against a Stinger HL and the Stinger had better colour rendition!
> 
> Switch/UI is lovely though. Form factor great for what I need too.


same, form factor and switch was what I was after too. the rest didnt matter so much.


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## arKmm

Repsol600rr said:


> Does anyone elses tailcap leave marks in the batteries? The spring seems pretty sharp.


Yes, can confirm. I'm using disposables though so I'm not so worried.


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## Repsol600rr

Might try and fix that, but of sanding or filing to smooth it.


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## Hemicrusher

Dumb question. 

Does the Switchback become loose if using the High/Low cap on the Alpha, when in low mode?


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## AstroTurf

I’ve not found it to get loose.


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## aznsx

FYI - Just did a click-by on the Z site to look at something and noted the Alpha Gen3 shows as in stock and shipping again. Just in case Santa couldn't get you one last month


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## neutralwhite

will elzetta be at shot show 22 ?


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## bykfixer

Hope they re-release these someday.


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## knucklegary

Surefire and Malkoff can take a lesson from this Elzetta design. With appropriate shoulder stencils it's a must!


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## kerneldrop

Ill take a Smedium
I’ll wear it on International Chest Day, which is every Monday of course.


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## knucklegary

Smedium is that some kinda braided (alive) lanyard?


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## fulee9999

does any other manufacturers head go with the bravo body?

I know that SureFire-Malkoff-Elzetta tailcaps are ( mostly ) compatible, but what about the heads? Would an MDX or VME head go on to the bravo body?


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## nmiller

I don’t think the Elzetta bodies are truly compatible with any other brands heads or tails.


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## thermal guy

fulee9999 said:


> does any other manufacturers head go with the bravo body?
> 
> I know that SureFire-Malkoff-Elzetta tailcaps are ( mostly ) compatible, but what about the heads? Would an MDX or VME head go on to the bravo body?


Nope.


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## fulee9999

so now that they only sell the AVS and HC heads, the M60 compatibility is just completely gone? ):


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## fulee9999

nmiller said:


> I don’t think the Elzetta bodies are truly compatible with any other brands heads or tails.


the tails work all around, you can put the hi-lo tail from an Elzetta onto a Malkoff turnkey and you get a 3 level light, which is pretty funky


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## thermal guy

fulee9999 said:


> the tails work all around, you can put the hi-lo tail from an Elzetta onto a Malkoff turnkey and you get a 3 level light, which is pretty funky


Well yes and no. The elzetta tail will screw onto a malkoff body but only a few turns. You have like a 1/4 inch gap. Not sure if it’s waterproof at that point.


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## thermal guy

fulee9999 said:


> so now that they only sell the AVS and HC heads, the M60 compatibility is just completely gone? ):


Yup. Got to hunt and search for them. Getting hard to find.


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## fulee9999

oh yeah, you're absolutely right about the the tails, they're not brilliant, just have the same threading. 
which also incidentally means that the 6px beltclips work on the elzetta as well


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## thermal guy

Yeah it won’t be on their website they do not recommend rechargeable cells for life-threatening situations


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## bykfixer

thermal guy said:


> Well yes and no. The elzetta tail will screw onto a malkoff body but only a few turns. You have like a 1/4 inch gap. Not sure if it’s waterproof at that point.


I had a PowerTac Warrior tailcap on my Alpha 315 for a while. It has a button for on/off and a side button with 4 levels, strobe and memory. Eventually the novelty wore off since it had parasitic drain and if you cut the circuit it always started on moonlight. 
Never tried it on other Elzettas.


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## fulee9999

Thanks to our awesome forum member @muichimon I managed to aquire a ZFL-M60.
( unfortunately it has the spiky ding-dong head, but you make do with what you can )
I sort of knew but did not suspect that the ZFL version only differs from the bravo by what head is screwed on to it.
The hi/lo tail works on the ZFL version, so does the AVS head, and vica versa.

One major difference I noticed is that in the good old times the tail threads were not anodized, but the new ones are for some reason ( probably cost saving...? )

ZFL-M60 on the left, new gen bravo on the right







Interestingly, they changed the logo as well:






And the tail threads I mentioned, top is the old non-ano version:
( also do note that the M60 drop-in pushes the batteries ever so slighty more into the tail springs )


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## neutralwhite




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## fulee9999

neutralwhite said:


> View attachment 25862


does your clip rotate as well? or did you manage to put something under it to stop it from going round and round?


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## novice

fulee9999, thank you for the photos. I have an earlier Bravo body with non-ano tail threads, and instead of having 'Bravo' printed on it, it has ZFL-M60 printed on one side (after Elzetta), and on the other side (after Elzetta), it has printed, "illumination by (top line) Malkoff Devices (bottom line). My Charlie body has the older style logo, but also has anodized tail threads.


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## muichimon

fulee9999 said:


> Thanks to our awesome forum member @muichimon I managed to aquire a ZFL-M60.
> ( unfortunately it has the spiky ding-dong head, but you make do with what you can )
> I sort of knew but did not suspect that the ZFL version only differs from the bravo by what head is screwed on to it.
> The hi/lo tail works on the ZFL version, so does the AVS head, and vica versa.
> 
> One major difference I noticed is that in the good old times the tail threads were not anodized, but the new ones are for some reason ( probably cost saving...? )
> 
> ZFL-M60 on the left, new gen bravo on the right
> 
> View attachment 25854
> 
> 
> Interestingly, they changed the logo as well:
> 
> View attachment 25855
> 
> 
> And the tail threads I mentioned, top is the old non-ano version:
> ( also do note that the M60 drop-in pushes the batteries ever so slighty more into the tail springs )
> 
> View attachment 25856


I am glad you were able to buy it safely.
The older models do not have HA threads on the tail switch side. I have an early Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and a ZFL that do not have HA on the tail thread. I believe the threads started being HA'd after the 5th digit of the serial number was changed to the initials of each model.


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## fulee9999

novice said:


> fulee9999, thank you for the photos. I have an earlier Bravo body with non-ano tail threads, and instead of having 'Bravo' printed on it, it has ZFL-M60 printed on one side (after Elzetta), and on the other side (after Elzetta), it has printed, "illumination by (top line) Malkoff Devices (bottom line). My Charlie body has the older style logo, but also has anodized tail threads.



huh, that's interesting with the Charlie body, so even the older ones are not uniform. By the way, this bravo body should also say "ZFL-M60" as well as this is a ZFL variant also, but I'm guessing the amount of laser etched bodies and ZFL type heads did not match up, so there were some ZFL setups that were sold as just plain bravo models.


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## neutralwhite

fulee9999 said:


> does your clip rotate as well? or did you manage to put something under it to stop it from going round and round?


I used an O ring I am sure which came with the dark sucks clip.


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## fulee9999

I just realized it's technically feasible to put the LPC o-ring *inside *the clip.
I'm delighted that Thyrm in their infinite wisdom realized that more people have issues with the tail-to-body gap than how many have problems with their springs not being long enough, so they decided to ship o-rings with the LPC clips next to the semi-useless battery bumper metal rings.

So if you manage to put the clip first, then wiggle the o-ring inside the clip, between the tail threads and the clips inside wall, the clip will not rotate and you still have hi-lo. Awesome!

( not to mention what a tank this little beast is )


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## Fuchshp

Are Surefire FM65 red filters the right size for the Elzetta Charlie tir head?


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## thermal guy

FM 65 is 1.47” the Charlie is 1.45”. If memory serves.


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## Fuchshp

That's almost perfectly matching. With a piece of paper in between it should be ok then.


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## Kernelpanic

Hi,
It’s been many years since I purchased my last flashlight. It was an Elzetta Alpha. 
I still have it and been carrying everyday. I’m looking to purchase a second one for in my walking rucksack, are they still solid reliable flashlights.
Cheers
KP


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## fulee9999

yep, same old same old... I'd also order mine with engraving if I were to order now, I'm kinda bummed that I didn't


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## Kernelpanic

fulee9999 said:


> yep, same old same old... I'd also order mine with engraving if I were to order now, I'm kinda bummed that I didn't


I like the idea of engraving also, gives a personal touch. Love how solid these flashlights.
KP


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## bykfixer

Kernelpanic said:


> Hi,
> It’s been many years since I purchased my last flashlight. It was an Elzetta Alpha.
> I still have it and been carrying everyday. I’m looking to purchase a second one for in my walking rucksack, are they still solid reliable flashlights.
> Cheers
> KP


Yes they are. 
The latest version (gen 3) can use a rechargeable battery or a primary. 
They may still have some gen 2 they called 113, which was a smooth bezel ring 415 lumen version with a hi/lo tailcap for clearance price.


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## AstroTurf

3 generations of the alpha...

so, yes, there are differences.

output, function, and body abrasiveness are but three differences that i can think of.


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## neutralwhite

I wish Elzetta would come back with an updated ZFL-M60.


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## muichimon

neutralwhite said:


> I wish Elzetta would come back with an updated ZFL-M60.


I too would like to see a new ZFL.
I regret that I should have bought the ZFL parts at that time because I could buy them from elzetta official until about December 2020.


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## LED1982

muichimon said:


> I too would like to see a new ZFL.
> I regret that I should have bought the ZFL parts at that time because I could buy them from elzetta official until about December 2020.


What parts are there in total? I’m not sure why but in a parts bag I think I have what looks like the crenellated shell of the ZFL head like pictured earlier. Do you put drop ins into it or something? I never had a drop in before.


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## scalpel_ninja

It should be:

Head (like the one you have pictured)
Drop in (Malkoff or similar P60)
Body (Bravo or Charlie)
Tail switch (any variant, such as click, rotary, hi/lo, etc)
Battery (however many that will fit in the body with the correct total voltage for the drop in’s voltage range)

These will make a complete light.


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## LED1982

Why is ZLF better


scalpel_ninja said:


> It should be:
> 
> Head (like the one you have pictured)
> Drop in (Malkoff or similar P60)
> Body (Bravo or Charlie)
> Tail switch (any variant, such as click, rotary, hi/lo, etc)
> Battery (however many that will fit in the body with the correct total voltage for the drop in’s voltage range)
> 
> These will make a complete light.


Ok thanks. Yeah I kept thinking that ZFL-M60 meant a fully packaged head that isn’t made anymore, oh ok so it’s only the shell that’s not made anymore, and M60s are drop ins that are still made. I’m so clueless about drop ins I never saw one up close in my life. Ok I think I’m FINALLY catching on lol, so ZFL is sought after because of drop in ability, and it has nothing to do with the specific ZFL insides that I see in any ZFL pictures.


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## muichimon

LED1982 said:


> What parts are there in total? I’m not sure why but in a parts bag I think I have what looks like the crenellated shell of the ZFL head like pictured earlier. Do you put drop ins into it or something? I never had a drop in before.


It is a head part. The body and switches can be adapted from the latest models, and the M60 and M61 from malkoff can be incorporated.
It is a unique light design, but I like it because it is the origin of elzetta.
I remember that 2 years ago, the ZFL parts available from the official store were the standard head and the crenellated head. I remember that the low profile heads were sold out.


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## scalpel_ninja

Yes, you’re correct. Technically the M60 is a drop in sealed with a TIR optic and no longer being made. The current M61s are mostly open-ended with the reflector and emitter exposed and might require a glass lens and O-ring to work correctly and seal out moisture. I don’t have a ZFL on hand (yet) to confirm if the head has anything to seal the M61s.


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## muichimon

scalpel_ninja said:


> Yes, you’re correct. Technically the M60 is a drop in sealed with a TIR optic and no longer being made. The current M61s are mostly open-ended with the reflector and emitter exposed and might require a glass lens and O-ring to work correctly and seal out moisture. I don’t have a ZFL on hand (yet) to confirm if the head has anything to seal the M61s.


I have an M61 built into my ZFL using malkoff's VME Head Lens and Gaskets. If you are handy, you can cut out a circular shape from a clear acrylic sheet. I'm clumsy so I bought the malkoff's if I could get them for $4.with $4.


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## scalpel_ninja

muichimon said:


> I have an M61 built into my ZFL using malkoff's VME Head Lens and Gaskets. If you are handy, you can cut out a circular shape from a clear acrylic sheet. I'm clumsy so I bought the malkoff's if I could get them for $4.with $4.



Thanks for that piece of information. So it is the same as the VME setup. I have a lens I bought from a watch parts company. They have all sorts of sizes and of course some that fit the face of the M61 really well.


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## fulee9999

scalpel_ninja said:


> Thanks for that piece of information. So it is the same as the VME setup. I have a lens I bought from a watch parts company. They have all sorts of sizes and of course some that fit the face of the M61 really well.



I went the exact opposite direction for one build... M60 in an MDX head with an MD1 body:







The ZFL-M60 floody drop-in is pretty good for area illumination and in small form factor can be pretty handy.
I don't particularly like the clear M60, too narrow hotspot for my liking.


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## scalpel_ninja

fulee9999 said:


> I went the exact opposite direction for one build... M60 in an MDX head with an MD1 body:
> 
> View attachment 34029
> 
> 
> The ZFL-M60 floody drop-in is pretty good for area illumination and in small form factor can be pretty handy.
> I don't particularly like the clear M60, too narrow hotspot for my liking.


Nice! I see you have that $5 clip on it too. 😁


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## fulee9999

oh yeah, that Maglite clip is amazing for these smaller builds!


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## desert.snake

Has anyone tried their HC reflector heads? I don't see any review.


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## nmiller

I have one on a Bravo. I prefer it over the AVS head. A bit more throw but still very usable flood. For my uses it also makes the low on the Bravo more usable for me. At some point I’ll get another for my Charlie and turn the AVS into a flood head. Overall the HC is a great all around user. Tint and beam are very nice.


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