# Which soldering iron, folks? ***UPDATE: METCAL!***



## milkyspit (Jul 31, 2003)

I need help in finding a good yet moderate price soldering iron for electronics work, including replacing the LS on my MadMax sandwich. The soldering iron I own seems to be underpowered, in that it is finicky in melting solder -- sometimes it does so in a fraction of a second, other times I rub the solder against the tip for several seconds and it doesn't melt at all! -- and it is completely incapable of heating a joint to flow the solder into it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

Simply put, what do I need? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

I'm not interested in setups costing $100+ because I'm just a hobbyist, and solder things only occassionally. Still, I've got to believe there is a good unit for me, no? After all, when you get right down to it, it's just a heating element in a metallic stick with an insulated handle! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I did see a $70 soldering station with digital temperature control over here at MPJA. Is this a good choice? Is there something cheaper that will do a good job for me? Questions, questions. Please help me make sense of this mess. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


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## paulr (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I haven't seen that MPJA station but it looks like a good deal. You really want a temperature regulated soldering station to work on those tiny parts.


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## kitelights (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

That looks like a pretty good bang for the bucks.

A cheaper alternative would be the Weller WLC100 Variable Output Soldering Station. It's $40 at Hosfelt and uses just a simple dial to adjust from 5 to 40 watts. Fairly good selection of tips for about $4. Not as nice as your find.


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## shankus (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

That looks like a great station for a reasonable price.


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## markus_i (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Looks ok. I'd recommend a Weller or Magnastat (either electronic or magnetic), though.
In any case:
- Minimum of 60 Watts
- temperature regulated (_not_ power regulated)
- exchangeable tips (and a good availability of both large and superfine tips - see Weller/Magnastat)
- a very nice feature is the possiblity to connect a (physically) smaller iron to the same base station

At home, I'm still using a simple base (kit built) with a regulated Weller iron, but I don't think I'd tackle a MadMax with it. At work, I have a Weller WSD 130 with two irons (big and small) connected[1]. The big one has 50 Watts, the small one 60 (yes! - the bigger one can keep the temperature by thermal mass, the smaller one needs to re-heat faster).

Bye
Markus

[1]At my desk - I'm "only" working as SW developer. For the really fine stuff, there are a few SMD rework stations in the next floor.


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## Light_Knight (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Id have to agree with Markus, Weller are very good,they are regulated


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## emitter (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I'm no expert but here's my opinion from a pure hobbyist's point of view:
If you could find a better quality soldering station used from an auction or an acquaintance, try for that, it's worth it. I have an older Hexacon therm-o-trac without the digital display, and a set of about 6 tips for every situation. I never could have bought one new, but it was free! What a difference from the old cheap iron i had running off of a variac. To add to Marcus's good suggestions, the Magnstat irons are temperature controlled by changing tips (as far as I know, someone correct me if I'm wrong). I think you might not want to get into those, and stick with metered temp. control. The 'Solomon' station looks good, maybe save a buck or two ($15 actually) and get the cheaper model (SL-20). Use the savings to get a set of tips while you're at it, might not be able to find tips easily for this station. You only need to know your temp ±10°, so the digital readout is kind of a waste. Why is this station cheap? Maybe cause it can't deliver a whole lot of power. It ought to be enough for small re-work stuff. 
Your problems may also arise from the solder itself. Most often, the flux core is not enough. You need a tube of 'water clean' or 'no clean' flux. I understand that temperature is your main problem, but flux is often overlooked. Discovering 'real' flux made my life a whole bunch easier. I melted a lot of insulation before trying to get solder to flow, but not anymore. If you wanna try some out, PM me and I'll fill a small 1cc syringe for ya. The 'shack' probably has the stuff though. 

~ned


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## flashlightlens (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I use an Ungar. I also like to use a really small tip for most of my work. Learn how to use the damp sponge like it's meant to be used - keep your tip clean, well tinned, and never leave it on by mistake (easier said than done).


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## James S (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I also want to put in a plug for the "Solomon: stations. I recently upgraded my pencil type radio shack model with one from http://www.mpja.com/ and it's really nice. I haven't done a lot of smt work with it yet, but I've definitely made good use of the varying temperature settings. Doing fine soldering work and also at high temps forcing some solder to stick a larger piece of meta that I could never of done with the radio shack model. I also picked up a couple of sets of tips, they are about $2.50 each I think, and they change easily and work well and the fine ones are very fine indeed!

I got the little bit more expensive one, but the cheaper one should work just as well as it is identical except for the digital readout which is really not necessary.


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## Gene (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

My son, who is a professional car stereo and alarm installer, sent me an interesting birthday gift last week. It's a butane soldering stick. It's self igniting, (Piezo ignition), and of course does away with that dang cord! Lights every time. It came with a bunch of tips including a hot air tip. It's the neatest soldering gun of any type I've ever seen! So handy and so small. Works better than anything I've ever tried. It's distributed by Snap-On and it's called the "Blue-Point". I think it's fairly expensive but I just wanted to mention it.


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## James S (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Heh, i will also echo what flashlightlens said. Use the sponge! Before you solder and after you solder. It makes a huge difference in the quality and ease of work. And while you're at it don't forget to get a nice big pot of rosin and use it liberally. (I sais liberally, not smear it all over everything in the room /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif) this will also help a great deal to get good results.


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## Jonathan (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Look for 'Kester UltraPure Tip Cleaner'. This is a little tin container with a paste of tin and fluxing materials. Cleans the tip _beautifully_ and then tins it. Great thermal conductivity. 

I also _really_ like the Weller WES-50. This is either the top of the hobby range or the bottom of the professional range; on sale you will see it for $90. Temperature regulating, adjustable temperature, comfortable tool shape, and really hard to beat. I regularly solder 0.5mm lead pitch SMT chips (like the MadMax drive chip) with this soldering iron.

-Jon


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## milkyspit (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Wow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif In addition to all the specific info in your posts, I'm getting two concepts out of this: (1) the choice of the "right" soldering iron is at least partially a matter of personal taste (in other words, there's no such thing as the universally "best" soldering iron); and (2) even after I have all the right equipment, I'll need to study the technique! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Sounds like there are a lot of small things to know about soldering, which can make the difference between success and failure, or hard and easy.

On that latter point (#2), does anyone know of a decent online document, printed book, or similar such thing that I could study to learn how to use all the great stuff you're recommending? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif I'm just a hobbyist, really, but I still don't want to screw up all my stuff.


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## BentHeadTX (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Weller,
I did the "keep the soldering iron on all weekend" test on Ungars and they smoked, my 15 year old Weller is purple (three-day weekend) it still works. Get some flux, good ole lead/tin solder, Weller soldering iron and the MOST IMPORTANT thing is the heatsink! 
A hospital hemostat works great (I have around 8 different ones) If you keep your electronics cool, the better solder joints you can make. Have fun, I have to order some Elektrolumens stuff.


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## milkyspit (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

BentHeadTX, the point about heatsinking is well taken, and happily, our local smalltown hardware store has a box o' cheap hemostats next to the cash register! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Good tip.

I try to avoid the solders containing lead, and instead go for that lead-free (is it silver?) stuff. It's a bit more expensive, but I don't like the presence of lead in our home. Just a personal thing I guess. I assume this type of solder also works for soldering electronics?


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## Unabomber (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
I assume this type of solder also works for soldering electronics? 

[/ QUOTE ]

It does, but 63/37 solder is the best for electronics because it doesn't have a eutectic state. That is fancy talk for it goes from a hot liquid to a solid instantly, all other forms of solder have this plastic state where post soldering movments can cause errors. 63/37 is dummy proof.


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## Doug Owen (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
(2) even after I have all the right equipment, I'll need to study the technique! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Sounds like there are a lot of small things to know about soldering, which can make the difference between success and failure, or hard and easy.

On that latter point (#2), does anyone know of a decent online document, printed book, or similar such thing that I could study to learn how to use all the great stuff you're recommending? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif I'm just a hobbyist, really, but I still don't want to screw up all my stuff.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, ya broke the code. 'It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools'. We put men on the moon with 'old fashioned' soldering irons, the 'NASA Solderers' I knew in the day all used Ungar Imperials..... Cleanness, heat and flux. The rules don't change.

A quick note about sponges, yes they're the ticket *before* soldering, but if you use them, *immediately* melt some solder on the tip (put in back in the rack 'wet'). The tip needs protection from hot oxygen.

As far as URLs go, there's a bunch. A Google search on 'how to solder' got a couple of good looking ones:
How to Solder
How to solder 

Doug Owen


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## James S (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I have tried using silver solders, I think they are considerably harder to work with. For pipe joints they are the way to go though!

I don't think the lead needs to be a concern if you take just a little bit of care with it. Obviously if you have children it needs to be out of reach. Don't handle the stuff with bare hands more than is necessary. I pull some out of the roll, but then handle it by the roll so I'm not continually messing with the stuff itself.

Most of the steam and smoke from soldering comes from the flux and not the solder, but a certain amount of lead is carried up in the fumes. Don't breath it directly. If you are really concerned you can get these fume hood things with a fan that draws the smoke in away from you. They are not all that expensive.

But then I know plumbers who work with soft lead sheeting every day to cover roof vents and the like, come home with their hands blackened with the stuff and never have any difficulty.

It's much more dangerous for children than adults to have a tiny bit of lead in their system. A soldering hobby will not expose you to enough to worry about unless you like to suck on the solder.

Oh, and there most certainly IS a single best and most wonderful soldering equipment. But the brand new Metcal or other such tools will run you enough money that you won't be able to afford anything to solder with it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif But just like buying the most expensive violin won't make you a musician, spending a couple of thousand bucks on a soldering iron won't make you good with that either. definitely read stuff, but the best thing to do is just to practice! Learn how the stuff flows and how to get heat where you need it and get out quickly before you burn the parts. Start out with simple things and get a feel for it. You need to know how to solder to build rockets, but you don't need to know how to build rockets to solder /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Doug Owen (Aug 2, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

James S is spot on. Don't even think of using anything but first grade *electroinc* solder, this means the eutectic alloy (mixture) of tin and lead of 63% to 37%. This has the *lowest* melting point (definition of eutectic mix), essential for both protecting parts and avoiding 'cold solder joints'. 

However, there is for all practical purposes no lead in 'solder fumes'. Check out the vapor pressure of lead at soldering temperatures some time. If this urban legend was true, linotype operators and lead casters would all poison themselves. In fact very few do, and they do it through poor hygiene (they eat it off their hands, cuz they didn't wash up well). Lots of serious science and studies to support this. Metallic lead is not the issue, it's soluble lead salts. Oxides included. Don't eat old gel cells and you'll live longer. I avoid breathing the flux fumes, of course, but it's not a really serious health threat. I watch the ventilation or blow gently for the 20 seconds or so 'we're hot'.

Think in terms of the heat flow. Let the iron heat the work hot enough to melt the solder, never use the iron directly (except to tin the tip). Pull the solder away, let the iron heat it a second or so more (gives the flux full time to work and heats up the joint past the melting point), then pull the iron away and let it cool on it's own. Be sure your joint will be stable on it's own (won't move as it cools). Inspect for smooth finish, and proper whetting (adhesion of the solder to the surface at the edges). Always use fresh solder (adds flux) in every joint.

Get some practice. Like an old computer board. Go down the lines resoldering each connection. Just heat it a bit, add some solder from the other side, pull the solder, pause, pull the iron, move on. You'll figure it out.

Doug Owen


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## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Dumb question maybe, but what is flux, and is it incorporated into the solder or a separate item that I somehow add to the joint separately?


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## James S (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Doug, good to hear that I'm right in not worrying about my habit of melting a bit of lead now and again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Milkyspit, there is flux in the center of all the eletronic solder I've ever seen, you can get it without, but I don't think you want to. I've even seen some expensive solder that had it in 5 little holes instead of 1 big one. For biggger jobs where you're going to be using a lot of the solder this is probably OK, but for fine work, or anything you want to actually work well I would recommend getting a little tub of just flux. (make sure it's the paste for soldering and not the acid stuff for plumbing) I find that the flux helps to transfer the heat more quickly and really aids in the flowing of the metal where you want it to go. The application and amount you use isn't all that critical. I have a nail sitting in the tub and I just pull it out and use it to dab a little on connection before I apply heat.

I've you've only ever used the stuff in the solder itself you'll be surprised at how much better it works with a little extra applied!


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## shiftd (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Umm guys.
I remembered from my reading that every once you smell/breath the lead fume, your intelligent (or whatever it is called) decrease by a fraction of 10%. anyone can clarify this?
I am using a solder that is made from 95% Tin and 5% antimony. Is this solder good enough?
Also, are all of the solder tips created equal?


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## McGizmo (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I picked up a Metcal from E-Bay and yes it was pricey but the tool sure works good! Wayne Y. turned me on to the flux pens and they are also a great aid. Although not typically relevant in electrical solder connections, it probably helps to keep in mind that the solder *wants* to flow to the source of heat; at least that's been my experience with soldering copper and silver and gold in jewelry applications.

OK, I've added my 2 cents and now I can go off topic (main reason I posted. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

James S. I love your avatar! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The hand wrought form of the 356 is still my favorite of all times! Fond memories are triggered whenever I see one of these classics.

- Don


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## Doug Owen (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
Dumb question maybe, but what is flux, and is it incorporated into the solder or a separate item that I somehow add to the joint separately?


[/ QUOTE ]


Flux is an essential part of the process. It has to be there to work. The idea is there are surface oxides and other contamination that blocks the solder's access to the surface at the atomic level, something absolutely necessary. Flux does it's fine work only when heated (it's not chemically active cold) and rapidly burns up completely at soldering temperatures. This means you need *fresh* solder (and the flux in it's core) each time.

Generally, there is more than enough flux in the solder for average jobs. For really bad contamination, simply remove all or most of the first bit of solder (the joint is now much cleaner than before) and go again with fresh solder and more flux inside it. External flux (either paste or liquid) is necessary for SMT use as most solders used there have no flux. But for routine use on PCBs and such, the flux in solder is fine, and has no adverse effect if the ash is left there, something not always true of other fluxes (some of which attract and hold water, for instance).

Doug Owen


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## georges80 (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I wrote this a while back on what I use to solder SMT parts (the minimum setup I recommend):
how to solder smt

If you have your own UPS/FEDEX account - then you can request a free sample of the kester flux - 1 gallon - you'll never run out! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

I've soldered many hundreds of my driver boards (SMT) and the above link provides all the equipment/consumables that are needed. My technician also uses the same setup to solder the finest pitch SMT ASICS. Of course practice makes perfect.

Another hint - if you ever need to remove a multi-pin SMT device you can use one of those Butane soldering irons with the hot air tip in a pinch - works a treat and a lot cheaper than a professional hot air tool. Just run the hot air around the chip/device evenly warming up the pins until the solder evenly releases.

cheers,
george.


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## James S (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

shiftd, LOL that certainly sounds like urban legend material to me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Lead in a developing brain like in a child under 6 can be quite damaging to it's development. But we're talking the kind of exposure they get from eating or breathing the oxidised lead from old lead paint or like back in the 70's when inner city kids were exposed to a huge amount of lead from the exhaust of leaded gasoline. It was important to get rid of these sources of exposure to children!

In adults a small amount of lead has no obvious effect at all. At higher dosages it will give you all kinds of nasty things. Historically there is the Lead Girl syndrome. I think that is what they called it, can't remember exactly. Named after the girls who used leaded paint to make watch faces by hand. These girls were covered in the stuff and used their mouth and toung to give the paintbrushes a fine tip! So they ingested a lot of it. The symptoms were that they got sick, had a "beautiful" pallor and transparency to their skin cause by how sick they were becoming and were always skinny since they were too sick to eat properly. Even thought they were basically snacking on lead pain all day they managed to do their job of fine detail work for years before becoming too sick to work. Those that got out before they died recovered somewhat, but lead tends to sit in your bones and isn't excreated very well and tends to damage the kidneys and liver while it's being excreated...

If you work around lead dust it can be very dangerous, if you fail to wash said dust or residue off your hands before eating you can get a lot of it into your system and carry it home to your family in your hair or on your clothes.

I looked up the specifics of lead vaporising since this is a serious concern! Looks like Doug is correct. There is virtually no lead vapor created at temperatures under 500C. I believe the average soldering iron temperature is around 600F ?? Which translates to under 350C and my new soldering station cranked all the way up only goes to 900F which is 482C so still a bit below the danger level. If you soldered at that level normally you'd cook everything it touched anyway.

They do warn agains the flux fumes though, if you are chemically sensative or have asma they can irritate your lungs and eyes. But they dissapate quickly and are easily avoided by just lifting your head out of the cloud /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So, to sum up. Soldering at home with a 35 watt or even larger soldering iron will not expose you to a measuable level of lead vapor. If you handle the solder a lot wash your hands before handling food or eating to avoid eating the lead that will come off on your hands. Lead can be absorbed through the skin, but VERY slowly so washing your hands with soap and water is enough. If you have pica that makes you want to eat the stuff then you're on your own. Hobby soldering = safe unless you're a moron and suck on the stuff or let your kids suck on the stuff.


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## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

James (and everyone else), thanks for the excellent research and prudent safety info. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'll add to it one additional, simple step people can take if they're still concerned about lead exposure. About 30 minutes before soldering, consume a *large* amount of vitamin C. How large? Probably 2-4 GRAMS (not milligrams!). Taking this quantity, it should be in some sort of buffered form to avoid causing intestinal distress, but beyond that shouldn't cause any particular problems. With a sufficient amount of ascorbate (vitamin C) circulating through one's system, the small quantities of lead absorbed would quickly be escorted out again, and the ascorbate would protect both kidneys and liver from problems. This, of course, is NOT an excuse to be sloppy about other safety precautions, rather it's a last line of defense against the little that does slip in. Should work nicely.

(And I have asthma, so I'll be taking my inhaler before breaking out the tub o' flux. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Okay, end of public service announcement. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

On a more thread-specific note, what happened to traditional DIP packages for chips? So much seems to be SMT these days, which I completely understand for high volume manufacturing, I just would have thought the extremely tight pin-to-pin distances of SMT would have discouraged hobbyists from going that route. Or am I missing something that makes do-it-yourself SMT soldering really easy?


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## shiftd (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

WWHOA.

thanks James and Milky for the tip and the information. Yea, i was concerned about the brain issue. Let me check my source again, maybe you guys can verify the readings.
In any case, I am really grateful on the info, from all who posted in this thread. 
Hmm, so the conclusion is to get a temperature controlled one, get a set of tips while you're at it, Use rosin liberally, use spongs before and after soldering, drank up a lot of Vit C, and wash your hand before and after soldering. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## James S (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
On a more thread-specific note, what happened to traditional DIP packages for chips? So much seems to be SMT these days, which I completely understand for high volume manufacturing, I just would have thought the extremely tight pin-to-pin distances of SMT would have discouraged hobbyists from going that route. Or am I missing something that makes do-it-yourself SMT soldering really easy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I have only done a very small amount of SMT soldering. In some cases it has gone just great and in others it was a complete disaster /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif I think that if you have enough light and a fine point you can do it OK. But that being said, MOST chips are still available in their DIP forms. Everything I've ever needed to use that way has been available in several different SMT forms and DIP as well. So you can probably order anything you need still in a more hobby friendly form. If the size of your board isn't an issue then this is certainly easier. But you do have to drill all those holes...

As far as mega doses of vitamin C, if you only solder once a month that should be OK. But if you're going to be working 2 or 3 days a week you definitely don't want to do that. Doses in that range lower many of the normal nutritive metallic elements in your system as well. Most affected is copper if I can recall. This can lead to really weird things like right eye conjunctivitis. Yes, thats a swelling in only the right eye! If you do it more slowly over time it will affect both eyes, but an acute case can be only in the right eye. Small amounts of C increase the available of calcium in the body, but if you take these mega doses it increases the amount of calcium that your body will use as well, if it's not available from dietary sources your body will take it from your bones and it will exasperate bone loss. Strangely enough this can actually INCREASE the amount of lead in your system as it comes out of the bones along with the calcium!

If you really think you're getting enough lead in your system to warrant some chelating then you better see a doctor and review your technique! That being said, a finger prick for a blood lead level is inexpensive and can be done at any clinic. If you are worried you have been snacking on the same plates you use to solder on perhaps you should see a doctor about it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I was hesistant to write anything about the vitamin C for fear of taking the thread off-course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I meant only to help with the safety issues others had raised about soldering. James raises some interesting points though they don't necessarily contradict the vitamin C as a protective step against lead absorption. In the interest of bringing us back to the soldering, I'll comment briefly on some of the concerns, then encourage anyone who wants to discuss further to PM me. And yeah, I started it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[ QUOTE ]
*James S said:*
As far as mega doses of vitamin C... Doses in that range lower many of the normal nutritive metallic elements in your system as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

The effect you mention is the reason vitamin C can help prevent lead absorption by the body. As for mineral losses in general, any decent multivitamin with minerals should offset this and keep the "good" stuff in.


[ QUOTE ]
*James S said:*
...if you take these mega doses it increases the amount of calcium that your body will use as well, if it's not available from dietary sources your body will take it from your bones...


[/ QUOTE ]

Calcium ascorbate (such as "Ester-C") could help prevent the calcium loss, as it by definition brings calcium into the body along with the vitamin C. It's also gentle on the stomach.


[ QUOTE ]
*James S said:*
...this can actually INCREASE the amount of lead in your system as it comes out of the bones along with the calcium!


[/ QUOTE ]

Vitamin C can't actually pull all that much lead out of the bones. What it does pull out increases lead in the "system" (blood) slightly, though that's not necessarily a bad thing; better in the blood than the bones! The vitamin C will also help flush the lead from the blood out of the body and will protect kidneys and liver while passing through. *BUT* there are better agents for removing ("chelating") lead, and the process is fairly involved, as James suggests. If you need that, find not just any doctor, but one experienced in *chelation*.

The use of the vitamin C while soldering isn't to remove the lead you've already got, but to prevent more from being absorbed. It is a temporary safety measure that shouldn't have any particularly harmful effects.


I'm not a doctor, but have suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome since the early 1990s, and have become knowledgeable by necessity on the subject of nutrition. (I'd rather not have had CFS to begin with, though.) I've also taken 6-10 grams of vitamin C every day for at least 10 years and am in far better health today than I was then. The vitamin C alone hasn't been responsible, but it also hasn't hurt me, and I've been taking an awful lot for an awfully long time.

*Beyond this,* anyone who wants more info or just wants to discuss a bit more, *please PM me*. This has been a great SOLDERING thread, and I didn't mean for it to become a nutritional debate. Sorry folks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## Doug Owen (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*James S said:*

In adults a small amount of lead has no obvious effect at all. At higher dosages it will give you all kinds of nasty things. Historically there is the Lead Girl syndrome. I think that is what they called it, can't remember exactly. Named after the girls who used leaded paint to make watch faces by hand. These girls were covered in the stuff and used their mouth and toung to give the paintbrushes a fine tip! So they ingested a lot of it. The symptoms were that they got sick, had a "beautiful" pallor and transparency to their skin cause by how sick they were becoming and were always skinny since they were too sick to eat properly. Even thought they were basically snacking on lead pain all day they managed to do their job of fine detail work for years before becoming too sick to work. Those that got out before they died recovered somewhat, but lead tends to sit in your bones and isn't excreated very well and tends to damage the kidneys and liver while it's being excreated...

If you work around lead dust it can be very dangerous, if you fail to wash said dust or residue off your hands before eating you can get a lot of it into your system and carry it home to your family in your hair or on your clothes.



[/ QUOTE ]

Er, actually the material in question is *radium* which got widespread use in WWII for the first time as self luminous paint for airplane gauges and other similar controls. The women would indeed roll the brushes (as they had done before with conventional paint) and got progressive *radiation* poisoning, not lead poisoning.

Lead fines (aka lead dust) are indeed a threat, but no more so than other forms of elemental lead you eat. In general your digestive system is not set up to digest it, so it gets passed through. It's the lead salts that are the big threat.

Lead poisoning makes you stupid (some say you'd have to be kinda that way to do it to yourself), personally I recommed Scotch Whisky for that task.....

Oh, yes, one of the very big no nos with lead is smoking. If ya gotta, wash up first.

FWIW, hardcores suggest washing with tepid water, cold slams the pores shut, trapping the debris, too hot opens them up forcing some debris deeper in.

Doug Owen


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## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*James S said:*
I also want to put in a plug for the "Solomon: stations. I recently upgraded my pencil type radio shack model with one from http://www.mpja.com/ and it's really nice. I haven't done a lot of smt work with it yet, but I've definitely made good use of the varying temperature settings. Doing fine soldering work and also at high temps forcing some solder to stick a larger piece of meta that I could never of done with the radio shack model. I also picked up a couple of sets of tips, they are about $2.50 each I think, and they change easily and work well and the fine ones are very fine indeed!

I got the little bit more expensive one, but the cheaper one should work just as well as it is identical except for the digital readout which is really not necessary. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm very close to ordering the Solomon station that includes the digital readout. I know the readout's not strictly necessary, but it makes me feel more confident in the temperature. (Yes, that's an irrational impulse, but it still exists. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif )

James, is this the model you bought? Which tip(s) came with it, and what other sizes/styles would you (or anyone) suggest to be prepared for soldering a broad range of items? I could just buy all of 'em, but think that's probably not necessary...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## James S (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Doug, sorry for being confused, you are of course right! I think the first signs of age are starting to show in things that I swear I remember are faulty /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif I need a little vacation to get my brain back in gear, or perhaps just a little more sleep. Radium Girls... HA, how we get confused. Or perhaps I just don't remember nibbling on solder as a kid myself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Milkyspit: I didn't mean to come across too strong or anything. If you're able to take that much then you are knowlegeable enough to offset the other effects! All I meant to do was to warn people that don't know enough to do this not to take that all the time. If I took your dose without changing anything else in my habits I'd be a very sick man in a few months. Course then my brain ran away and I waxed poetic for a while, sorry!

I'll stand by the statement that you don't need to do that though. Using lead solder correctly with a regular soldering iron won't cause you any short term or long term problems.


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## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*James S said:*
Using lead solder correctly with a regular soldering iron won't cause you any short term or long term problems. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I've just got to stop eating a little when I get hungry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

You know, the irony here is that I'll be taking all these prudent lead-free precautions as I work in my cellar, and all the while my old house (built in 1920s) is probably still chock full of bits of lead paint on the walls, asbestos in the old cloth wiring casings, etc... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif


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## Darkstar (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Any suggestions as to temperature settings? Specifically when soldering boards such as MM et.al.


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## milkyspit (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I've been wondering about temperature settings as well.

And I still want to understand which sizes/types of tips it would be wise for me to have... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


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## markus_i (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Ok, here's my 2 cents worth.

Temperature: it depends /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Honestly, if you get a regulated iron, somewhere around 250°..280° C is ok. The usual electronic solder melts at 187° C, and going above 300° C will need good care both during soldering and tip maintenance. You'll find temperature/time specs in the manufacturer's data sheets. If you keep your temperature too low, you'll need too much time to heat up the joint and (counter-intuitively) heat up the chip too much. If you keep the temperature too high, you'll burn the flux too fast (which'll give you some 'coal' on the tip, which you'll have to wipe before using) and you'll need to solder fast in order not to heat the chip too much.

Tips: stay away from pencil tips, the small point has too little contact with your joint to allow for effective heat transfer. I'd recommend 2..4 'chisel' tips, e.g.
1 small (less than 1 mm), long for fine work
optional 1 medium (around 2 mm), long for medium work
1 medium, short for normal work when you can get closer (re-heats faster than the long tip)
optional 1 wide (4 mm), short for coarse and fast work (e.g. soldering QFPs and similar abominations - use a lot of flux)
And of course, depending on how much you work and how fast you can get replacements, some spares (2-1-2-0).

And it helps if you can change hot tips...

HTH
Bye, markus


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## milkyspit (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*BentHeadTX said:*
Weller,
I did the "keep the soldering iron on all weekend" test on Ungars and they smoked, my 15 year old Weller is purple (three-day weekend) it still works. Get some flux, good ole lead/tin solder, Weller soldering iron and the MOST IMPORTANT thing is the heatsink! 
A hospital hemostat works great (I have around 8 different ones) If you keep your electronics cool, the better solder joints you can make. Have fun, I have to order some Elektrolumens stuff. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I bought four el cheapo hemostats from my local hardware store a few days ago. Thanks for the tip. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Today in Radio Shack, I noticed that they sell these tiny heatsink clips, for lack of a better word, for $1.29 each. So cheap! (The price, that is.) They're sort of like self-closing tweezers with a broad head that tapers to a point. The handle portion is covered with red plastic. I bought one to see how well they work, but they seem like the type of item (so long as they work) that one could buy in bunches and use liberally during a soldering session. Then again, what do I know, I'm the beginner here...


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## Led-Ed (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

700 degrees F is the only temperature you should need to use ,IMHO.


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## Spudman (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I'd like to hear more about the best temperature. Markus' explanation sounds reasonable, but the irons I looked at (like the Weller) had a temp range of 350-850. Led-Ed seems more on the money for the soldering irons in my price range.
So, who knows best??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


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## MicroE (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I do most of my work around 500F (260C).
I currently use a Weller WES50 and love it.---Marc


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## James S (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Ah, the confusion here is celcius vs farenheight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

300C is about 572F

the range of the weller is in F, so 176C to 454C 

and Led-Ed's ideal of 700F is 371C

So we're really all talking about the same range. I get very good results from my iron turned up to 600F The solder melts fast enough yet gives me a little time to mess around before things start to smoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## milkyspit (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*markus_i said:*
Ok, here's my 2 cents worth...

(proceeds to offer at least 25 cents worth of info /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )


[/ QUOTE ]

Markus, thanks for that tremendous bundle of information. I had to read it twice to understand everything -- of course, the first time was at 5AM after being awake all night /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif -- it's great! I appreciate it.


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## milkyspit (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Er, how exactly does a soldering tip "fail," and how long does it take to happen... are we talking weeks, months, everyday usage for eight years...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

And is the failure sudden, like the tip suddenly turns into a pile of ash, or is there ample warning to order a replacement?

Sorry -- these may be ridiculous questions to some, but I've *never* worn out a tip in my occasional soldering, even though I'm sure I mistreat them terribly, mostly out of ignorance. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## milkyspit (Aug 15, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

I just won this Metcal SP200 package on ebay. Hopefully it's a reasonable choice, and the price wasn't too bad? I still have to get my hands on one of those cartridge-changing pads and a stand, though. I'm assuming those won't be too difficult (or expensive) to find.

Could someone who knows this stuff take a look at the ebay listing of what I've won, and tell me what else I might need to turn it into a workable soldering station for hobbyist use? Thanks folks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Doug S (Aug 15, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
I just won this Metcal SP200 package on ebay. Hopefully it's a reasonable choice, and the price wasn't too bad? I still have to get my hands on one of those cartridge-changing pads and a stand, though. I'm assuming those won't be too difficult (or expensive) to find.

Could someone who knows this stuff take a look at the ebay listing of what I've won, and tell me what else I might need to turn it into a workable soldering station for hobbyist use? Thanks folks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

I follow the used market for Metcal stuff as I have been recently bidding on some items for another CPF member who is not on Ebay. You did well. You can get by without a stand. A mason jar with a few pebbles in the bottom works fine. You can set your sponge on anything. Depending on what type of soldering you are doing you might want a few additional tip styles. From the photo, it looks like that heavier tip may be near [past?]the end of its useful life. 
Congratulations on getting a Metcal. You made a wise choice. It is great equipment.


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## MR Bulk (Aug 15, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

Whatta deal. All you need are a couple of small chisel tips and you're good to go. Like Doug said the only thing you're missing is the stand, which most soldering irons do not come with anyway. And Radio Shack sells a nice one (heavyweight cast iron base, includes built-in "helping hands" clips configurable to all sorts of positions, and a wound-wire cone into which you place your hot soldering iron between passes), all for like $12 or less.

Good deal, I gotta spend more time at e-bay...


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## CM (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Which soldering iron, folks?*

That's pro grade stuff. We use that on our rework stations at work. Contrats. I wish I had one of those. Like Mr Bulk said, I need to look at Ebay before buying anything.

CM


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