# Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600



## Techjunkie (Jun 27, 2010)

*Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*

When I first started collecting LED lights, a few of them were of the 3AAA variety. That's fine for the non-flashaholic, but us flashaholics know that while AAAs are easily accessible, they provide exactly squat for runtime. There's a few 3AAA lights out there worth having that also offer compatability with a single 18650, and in some cases 2*16340 and while that's nice, filling them with those skinny batteries makes the almost-but-not-quite-C-sized tube a waste of space.

Enter the 22600 sized rechargeable. I'd seen LiFePO4 chemistry batteries offered in that size from only one or two vendors a few years ago, but didn't buy any before they disappeared. I didn't pull the trigger then because the lights I had hoped they'd fit into didn't perform as well with only 3.0V as with 3.6V or more.

Enter the new new 22600 sized 3.7V protected Li-Ion rechargeables (UltraFire branded). I just bought one of these and was delighted to find that it fit with even a little room to spare in a 3AAA/18650/2x16340 light that I keep in my car's center console.

You can see in the pic below how it's a little longer than a traditional 3AAA carrier, so lights that are strictly 3AAA sized might not afford the depth of tube necessary to fit this battery, at least not without spring trimming or removal.







I haven't done any runtime tests to confirm the modestly labeled 2500mAH capacity, but considering the volume increase of this canister over a tranditional 18650, I'm inclined to believe this rating is much more realistic than the 3000mAH rating of the 18650 of the same label. I hoping that it might even be underrated. Even if it's not, I'm pretty sure I've doubled the capacity/runtime of the torch in the pic simply by replacing the two 16340 rechargeables pictured (whos overrated 880mAH capacity is more like 550mAH each.)

The availability of this battery makes some of those 3AAA/18650 lights look a little more interesting as mod candidates now, and when I'm done with them, I can always give them away to non-flashaholics with the 3AAA carrier again.


Here's a pic of the IMR 22650 I mentioned in a later post below, next to a 3AAA flood-to-throw light I modded to use it in with a CREE XM-L:


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 27, 2010)

I was looking for batteries to swap out 3AAA for but at $10-$12 each on ebay it is not very attractive.


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## old4570 (Jun 27, 2010)

I saw them and ordered a pair .. Just waiting for them to arrive . 
Certainly look interesting for use in those 3xAAA lights , I have 2 , a Saik SA-8 , and a Solarforce L2i .

Price was $15USD shipped for a pair on flea bay .


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 27, 2010)

old4570 said:


> I saw them and ordered a pair .. Just waiting for them to arrive .
> Certainly look interesting for use in those 3xAAA lights , I have 2 , a Saik SA-8 , and a Solarforce L2i .
> 
> Price was $15USD shipped for a pair on flea bay .



that is cheaper than you can order them on ebay here $21 a pair is the best I have seen today. I will just stick with using my hybrid AAAs in the $5 lights and headlamps I have no sense in spending more on a battery than the lights cost me.


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## superpila (Jun 27, 2010)

I have a cheap 3AAA flashlight that I've been running on 18500 for a while. 18500s are a a good fit as they are the same size of 3xAAA so they don't require any trimming, although they have lower capacity than 22600. 1600mah 18500s are available on KD for 10 bucks a pair.


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## march.brown (Jun 27, 2010)

I have just tried a 123 Energizer primary in a couple of cheap 3 X AAA torches and although they work , they aren't as bright as with the three AAA alkaline cells ... Seems as though they need the higher voltage.

My two cheapie 3 X AAA torches are 22.2mm diameter inside and the available internal length is 57.56mm ... The springs would further reduce this available length ... The AAA cassette is 51.36mm long ... The maximum length that can be fitted inside the body is only 54.94mm in my case ... This means that the 22600 cell is just over 5mm too long for the AAA torches that I have ... Shame innit ?

I guess that these torches are destined to be give-aways to non-flashaholic friends and relatives.

My Romisen RC-U4 works OK in the car with three lithium AAA primaries , though it is also destined to be given to family.

The ultra-cheap single mode 123 torches are much better when using the 123 Energizer primaries.

After a bit of playing about with different torches , I guess that I will now standardise on 18650s , AAs and AAAs ... All single cell. 
.


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## Phaserburn (Jun 27, 2010)

superpila said:


> I have a cheap 3AAA flashlight that I've been running on 18500 for a while. 18500s are a a good fit as they are the same size of 3xAAA so they don't require any trimming, although they have lower capacity than 22600. 1600mah 18500s are available on KD for 10 bucks a pair.



I use 18500s in my 3AAAs too.


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## Techjunkie (Jun 27, 2010)

Looks like I got mine at an introductory price... When I bought it, KD had them for $6.70 each (now KD gets $7.48ea) and QualityChinaGoods had them in pairs for ~$12, but now asks >$21/pair.

I might still grab one more now in case another 3AAA/18650 host comes along. I've already started a short list of candidates in my head, with the SmallSun ZY-C80 topping the list (a 3AAA compatible version of the HS-802). Being able to use this battery might warrant the giant size (length) of that flashlight.


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## 45/70 (Jun 27, 2010)

Add me to the list of 18500's in 3 AAA lights users.

Keep in mind that lights that are DD (direct drive with, or without a resistor) will likely drive the LED(s) at a considerably higher drive current with any LiCo or LiMn Li-Ion cell. They'll be nice and bright, but this can lead to burning out the LED(s) if they have a low Vf.

I have two 3 AAA lights that survived 18500 use, a Nuwai ALX-1113 and a no name 9 LED "shower head". This was kinda neat, because it separated the "men from the boys" among my early LED lights. For inexpensive lights, both of which were purchased back in 2004-2005, these two actually still work quite well, if you can stand the "baby puke yellow/green" of the Nuwai and the "Moon blue" of the 9, 5mm LED shower head. 

That is an interesting size cell. It would be a much better solution for these lights.

Dave


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## kosPap (Jun 27, 2010)

I am now considering anotehr route....

Solarforce L2i and MCE or SST50 modules!


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 27, 2010)

march.brown said:


> I have just tried a 123 Energizer primary in a couple of cheap 3 X AAA torches and although they work , they aren't as bright as with the three AAA alkaline cells ... Seems as though they need the higher voltage.


cheap 3AAA torches tend to be set up to overdrive the LEDs till they deplete some starting at 4.5v, a 3.2v 123 cell cannot match the output but when the cells are depleted to 1.1v (making less than 3.3v under load) it is a good match but then they AAAs would be pretty much spent.


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## 45/70 (Jun 27, 2010)

Lynx_Arc said:


> cheap 3AAA torches tend to be set up to overdrive the LEDs till they deplete some starting at 4.5v, a 3.2v 123 cell cannot match the output but when the cells are depleted to 1.1v (making less than 3.3v under load) it is a good match but then they AAAs would be pretty much spent.



I would think that a lithium primary 123 would be very close to 3 AAA alkaline cells, as far as voltage, in this application. These lights count on the voltage of three alkaline cells sagging to a more appropriate level. That's why you can burn up the LED's using "good" NiMH AAA's, as well. Their voltage won't sag as much as alkalines.

As for these lights in general, over driving the LED's, I think some do and some don't. It depends on the individual light. It seems the ones that utilize resistors don't tend to overdrive the LEDs, or at least not as much anyway.

Dave


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## old4570 (Jun 27, 2010)

I made an adapter so I could run a single RCR123A [ 4.2v ] in the 3xAAA bodies . 
Also I can run a 14500 etc ..

I like the 3xAAA lights as with the right drop in you have a huge choice of batteries , U know , for that end of the world scenario . 

My L2i can run single AAA/AA/10440/14500/ all the way to 18650 and now 22600 ... [ I will have to build that solar charger ] 

There are many 3xAAA lights out there that are decent , folks just dont seem to appreciate AAA batteries [ good for back up ] . The 22600 if it takes off , rather than being a flash in the pan , should make for a very nice option for those wanting to move up to rechargeable's ..

What will be interesting , I wonder how they will fit the chargers ????


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 28, 2010)

If you didn't have to fumble with the carriers 3AAA lights wouldn't be that big of a deal but for the same price AA batteries give you up to 3 times the capacity and lights using 1-2 of them run almost for over half as long or close to twice as long as 3AAAs and batteries are quick to change. I have decided to get away from alkalines but until LSD nimh came along I found myself having the charge batteries in them every 3-6 months. LSD nimh makes 3AAA lights a lot more useful now as the batteries charge faster and you can let the light sit for months without worrying and rayovac hybrids although not the best can be had for cheap enough now.


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## old4570 (Jun 28, 2010)

Lynx_Arc said:


> If you didn't have to fumble with the carriers 3AAA lights wouldn't be that big of a deal but for the same price AA batteries give you up to 3 times the capacity and lights using 1-2 of them run almost for over half as long or close to twice as long as 3AAAs and batteries are quick to change. I have decided to get away from alkalines but until LSD nimh came along I found myself having the charge batteries in them every 3-6 months. LSD nimh makes 3AAA lights a lot more useful now as the batteries charge faster and you can let the light sit for months without worrying and rayovac hybrids although not the best can be had for cheap enough now.



My mothers SAIK SA-8 is still on its first set of batteries , and I got it for her last year , I dont think batteries are that much of an issue for the average person , for lightaholics though ? 

My own SAIK SA-8 has had a P60 pill fitted [ 5 mode Solarforce ] and even with almost double the current draw it still runs 3xAAA ok .

I know it wont compete with a 18650 [ 3xAAA ] but when that meteor slams into the earth and kills 99.9% of us , those scrounged AAA's are going to look mighty good .


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## march.brown (Jun 28, 2010)

old4570 said:


> My L2i can run single AAA/AA/10440/14500/ all the way to 18650 and now 22600


I had to make a 5mm spacer to extend the body length of my L2i so it would take a 18650 battery ... The spacer fits between the body and the head ... I like the recessed button on the L2i better than the one on the L2 and it will also tailstand if needed ... I have a single mode dropin in the L2i and this is my general purpose house torch ... Used every night for the snail and slug killing expedition in the back garden ... I don't use the torch to kill the slugs and snails , only to find them.




.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 28, 2010)

old4570 said:


> My mothers SAIK SA-8 is still on its first set of batteries , and I got it for her last year , I dont think batteries are that much of an issue for the average person , for lightaholics though ?
> 
> My own SAIK SA-8 has had a P60 pill fitted [ 5 mode Solarforce ] and even with almost double the current draw it still runs 3xAAA ok .
> 
> I know it wont compete with a 18650 [ 3xAAA ] but when that meteor slams into the earth and kills 99.9% of us , those scrounged AAA's are going to look mighty good .



I suppose the average person would be ok with a 3AAA based light but since I got decent 2AA lights I only turn on my 3AAA based lights to test them I prefer 2AA as it takes so much less time and effort to deal with battery changes plus the runtime of a 2AA light is about twice that of a 3AAA and when I go for walks sometimes I use up the rechargables in once a week which if 3AAA would be every 2 days instead. 
If a meteor hits and kills most of us... I would rather have a gas lantern than a flashlight as it will get very cold in the fall and freezing in winters as the sun is buried behind the dust cloud.


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## old4570 (Jun 28, 2010)

Plenty of wood to burn , thermal underwear , and what you will need more than anything else is clean drinking water , without that you will die ! 

My 22600 arrived today , quick note , due to the design of the Solarforce L2i tailcap the 22600 will not fit the Solarforce , though the batteries do fit my SAIK almost perfectly , we are talking internally threaded tailcap VS externally threaded , so no go for the L2i


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## Techjunkie (Jun 28, 2010)

I had ordered extra 41x31mm SMO XPG reflectors a while back, with the intent of making a multiple XPG thrower out of an old 6V battery searchlight and then scrapped the idea. I just ordered the SmallSun ZY-C37, which takes 3AAA or 1 18650. If this 22600 battery and that reflector both fit, then I'll mod it up with those parts, a forward clicky switch, an XPG star and a single mode 3.7-8.4V driver modded for 1.5A output. When I'm done, I'll have a nice, compact XPG thrower with almost 2 hours of runtime. (I'll have to get another one of these batteries as well then, 'cause the one I have now already has a home...) Funny how a new battery leads to new projects.


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## AnAppleSnail (Jun 28, 2010)

Here are my measurements for a pair of 3xAAA carriers I had laying around

```
Carrier 1
Diameter  22.2mm
Length     55.9mm

Carrier 2
Diameter   22.0mm
Length    52.8mm

And the light they go to has a 23mm inner diameter.  So if you can get 4-8mm of spring space, the 22600 should work.  I've had trouble cramming even unprotected 18650s (from a laptop, 64.6mm long) into 3xAAA spots.  These measurements are from my old calipers, which are close but not exact.

In conclusion, if the 22600 is right on the 60mm length, and you can get 5mm of space, which on my screen is a bit longer than 'mm,' then you're set to use a 22600 in any 3xAAA light.

Edit:
Taping pennies to my 3xAAA cartridge to make a 60mm-long-slug.  It fits in two of my three 3xAAA lights.

Edit:  I just realized that a C cell is 26.2x50mm - too wide.  D cells are worse.
```


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## old4570 (Jun 29, 2010)

Ok a bit of an update :

I only have one charger that will charge the 22600 without some sort of mod or tweak , the Shosine , and it only just squeaks bye , the slightest jolt and contact will be lost .

others fail , WF-139 , Trustfire TR-001 , there designs dont allow the 22600 to be charged .


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## AnAppleSnail (Jun 29, 2010)

old4570 said:


> Ok a bit of an update :
> 
> I only have one charger that will charge the 22600 without some sort of mod or tweak , the Shosine , and it only just squeaks bye , the slightest jolt and contact will be lost .
> 
> others fail , WF-139 , Trustfire TR-001 , there designs dont allow the 22600 to be charged .



Jumpers and magnets to hold the wires to the battery. Keep it fireproof.


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## old4570 (Jun 30, 2010)

I ordered the new Ultrafire charger today ...


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## Techjunkie (Jul 1, 2010)

D cell batteries are 60mm in length (like the 22600) so if you rig up a D cell carrier like the ones from RadioShack to your charger, that should work fine. After making sure that my cheap 1.0A charge rate chargers stop charging once an unprotected cell reaches 4.2V, I soldered leads directly to their PCBs and ran them through small holes I drilled in their sides. That lets me connect all sorts of carriers modded to fit all the popular large cell sizes. For this particular cell, you can probably just get away with a typically shaped 18650 charger and a strip of sheet metal wedged between the battery's positive terminal and the charger's positive contact. Some might even use a paperclip.


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## Techjunkie (Mar 11, 2011)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Techjunkie* on 01-09-2011 05:29 PM GMT

Just thought I'd update this old thread with some new info. I picked up two 22650 IMR cells from BatterySpace and now prefer them to the protected LiCo 22600 cells for higher current applications. In the UltraFire C-308 light pictured in my original post, I installed a CREE XM-L emitter and wired it for direct drive from a single cell. A long time ago, I had also replaced the switch with a KD fwd click switch to handle higher currents. Bypassing the switch and measuring at the tail, the red LiCo cell pictured above drove the XM-L to 4.5A and did not trip the protection circuit. That's a lot of amps, but still under the 2C typical max for LiCo rechargeables. The LiMn (IMR) 22650 from BatterySpace drove the same config to 5.7A. The cell itself is only rated by the manufacturer for 1C (2A), but I suspect that is more about maintaining the capacity rating than about cell wear and tear and safety. LiMn chemistry should be able to handle 3C current with no problem. After a few minute run, the cell was not even warm and open voltage was still above 4V. I feel safer running the LiMn cell than the LiCo cell at these currents. I'll use the LiCo 22600s for XPG builds and the LiMn 22650s for XM-L builds, like the C-308 above and my modded "SacredFire NF-08 flood-to-throw" light.
*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *mvyrmnd* on 01-09-2011 06:36 PM GMT



old4570 said:


> My 22600 arrived today , quick note , due to the design of the Solarforce L2i tailcap the 22600 will not fit the Solarforce , though the batteries do fit my SAIK almost perfectly , we are talking internally threaded tailcap VS externally threaded , so no go for the L2i


Is that Is that this L2i ?

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Techjunkie* on 01-15-2011 11:44 AM GMT

Here's another good 22650 or 22600 candidate, the SmallSun ZY-C37. It's the third from the left in the pics below. Notice how its dimensions are almost exactly the same as the 1*18650/2*16340 TrustFire A2 next to it. Both were modded with the same SMO reflector, XPG an driver, but one has ~2x the runtime.











*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Mark_Larson* on 01-15-2011 02:16 PM GMT



old4570 said:


> Plenty of wood to burn , thermal underwear , and what you will need more than anything else is clean drinking water , without that you will die !
> 
> My 22600 arrived today , quick note , due to the design of the Solarforce L2i tailcap the 22600 will not fit the Solarforce , though the batteries do fit my SAIK almost perfectly , we are talking internally threaded tailcap VS externally threaded , so no go for the L2i


Drat! Thank you for checking. Drat! Thank you for checking.

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Graydog009* on 01-15-2011 03:18 PM GMT

I'm really not sure if it is healthy for me to know this much about flashlights, went from a mag XL 100 to ordering a Fenix PD31 and charger 18650 combo in a day. Is this a bad sign?

And now I want to mod the XL 100 to ditch the dreaded 3AAA.... help!

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *PCC* on 01-16-2011 10:19 AM GMT



Graydog009 said:


> And now I want to mod the XL 100 to ditch the dreaded 3AAA.... help!


Good luck with that. If you are willing to lose the tail cap then anything is possible, but, because of the way that they designed this light you will have a difficult time getting anything to work with it other than the battery carrier that it came with. Good luck with that. If you are willing to lose the tail cap then anything is possible, but, because of the way that they designed this light you will have a difficult time getting anything to work with it other than the battery carrier that it came with.

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*






Written by *pae77* on 01-16-2011 06:56 PM GMT



old4570 said:


> Plenty of wood to burn , thermal underwear , and what you will need more than anything else is clean drinking water , without that you will die !
> 
> My 22600 arrived today , quick note , due to the design of the Solarforce L2i tailcap the 22600 will not fit the Solarforce , though the batteries do fit my SAIK almost perfectly , we are talking internally threaded tailcap VS externally threaded , so no go for the L2i


Darn, I was hoping those big fat cells would fit my L2i's. Well I'll just continue to power them with a single Trustfire (SKU 20392) protected 2400 mAh battery. I just don't screw the tail cap all the way down although I could. But it's such a tight fit I prefer not to subject the battery or the light to the additional pressure and the L2i works fine with these batteries with the cap tightened just a little bit past the beginning edge of the O ring (but not all the way past the O ring). Darn, I was hoping those big fat cells would fit my L2i's. Well I'll just continue to power them with a single Trustfire (SKU 20392) protected 2400 mAh battery. I just don't screw the tail cap all the way down although I could. But it's such a tight fit I prefer not to subject the battery or the light to the additional pressure and the L2i works fine with these batteries with the cap tightened just a little bit past the beginning edge of the O ring (but not all the way past the O ring).

(Old4570, about your charger and battery fit issues, considering all the charging you do and chargers you have, I'm surprised you don't already have a hobby charger that you can connect to the odd size cells, or any size cells, with magnets and wires. It's also nice to be able to set the starting charge current.  )

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Hill* on 02-09-2011 04:23 AM GMT

TJ,

I was looking into those 22600 cells because of this post. Batteryspace has them but they charge and extra $25 hazmat fee. I could do the KD/DX route, but I hate waiting a month for stuff. Where did you buy yours?

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Techjunkie* on 02-09-2011 08:57 AM GMT



Hill said:


> TJ,
> 
> I was looking into those 22600 cells because of this post. Batteryspace has them but they charge and extra $25 hazmat fee. I could do the KD/DX route, but I hate waiting a month for stuff. Where did you buy yours?


I got mine from Batteryspace. The hazmat fee is only for batteries that aren't certified. Their single cell IMR batteries are all certified, so no hazmat fee if you just order those. (Don't confuse UN Approved for meaning "un-approved") I got mine from Batteryspace. The hazmat fee is only for batteries that aren't certified. Their single cell IMR batteries are all certified, so no hazmat fee if you just order those. (Don't confuse UN Approved for meaning "un-approved")

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Hill* on 02-09-2011 12:34 PM GMT



> I got mine from Batteryspace. The hazmat fee is only for batteries that aren't certified. Their single cell IMR batteries are all certified, so no hazmat fee if you just order those. (Don't confuse UN Approved for meaning "un-approved")


Thanks for clarifying! Thanks for clarifying!

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Hill* on 02-21-2011 06:24 AM GMT



> Here's another good 22650 or 22600 candidate, the SmallSun ZY-C37. It's the third from the left in the pics below. Notice how its dimensions are almost exactly the same as the 1*18650/2*16340 TrustFire A2 next to it. Both were modded with the same SMO reflector, XPG an driver, but one has ~2x the runtime.


TJ, TJ,

I really like that smallsun host. I read that it had issues fitting protected 18650's, so decided not to get it. Thanks for confirming batteryspace IMR 22650 fitment. 

I also had been considering the solarforce L2 3aaa host, but see it does not accept these 22650 cells. So I guess I'll go with the smallsun + IMR 22650.

Hill

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *bobk* on 02-21-2011 04:35 PM GMT

I've been trying this -650 idea on several lights, without success. Just a no-go. So, instead of that, I thought, why not an 18500. Yeah, the capacity is small, but nothing powered by 3xaaa was a pocket rocket, anyway. I think I'm going LiFePO4, also. Less capacity, but zip self-discharge. The most I'm going to run is an XP-G R5, anyway.

Bob K

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Techjunkie* on 02-22-2011 11:51 PM GMT

I have one more 22600 battery without a host and a credit to DX for a defective charger so, that leads me to my next 3AAA light to mod...

The Romisen RC-U8. I don't know anything about it at this point except that it fits the profile of a light that would accommodate these batteries and among the Chinese cheap lights, Romisen usually has pretty good build quality. I'm planning to give it the XM-L treatment with a 2-mode regulator and fwd switch. I'm expecting it to turn out to be the higher capacity version of the UltraFire C8-A1 that I modified the same way. They both have SMO reflectors and the dimensions of the head and body look to be the same except for the fatter tube to fit the bigger battery in the Romisen.

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *old4570* on 02-23-2011 10:58 PM GMT

Ultrafire WF-188 Charger ..

Recently got a hobby charger , but still need a cradle , to handle odd sizes .. [ Dont like the idea of magnets ] 

But the WF-188 handles the odd cell sizes well .. 

I do like the idea of the 22600 , though my SAIK is the only light ATM that can handle them ...

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600*
Written by *Techjunkie* on 02-23-2011 11:45 PM GMT

You can always gut the WF-188 and use it as a cradle with your hobby charger. I've found it's OK for LiFePO4 or for conventional LiCo Li-Ion cells, but I have a really hard time topping off LiMn/IMR cells. Sometimes I can trick it into topping off an IMR cell by swapping it for a LiCo cell or just by trying several times in a row, but I can never fully charge two at a time. The light always goes green prematurely with two IMR cells installed.

Cheaper than gutting the WF-188 to use as a cradle if 60-65mm length fat cells are your only concern, Radio Shack sells "D" battery carriers for projects for $0.99 each. D's being 60mm long and the spring being ~5mm long, these work well for charging xx650 cells with the spring removed/trimmed.


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## Techjunkie (Mar 25, 2011)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*



Techjunkie said:


> I have one more 22600 battery without a host and a credit to DX for a defective charger so, that leads me to my next 3AAA light to mod...
> 
> The Romisen RC-U8. I don't know anything about it at this point except that it fits the profile of a light that would accommodate these batteries and among the Chinese cheap lights, Romisen usually has pretty good build quality. I'm planning to give it the XM-L treatment with a 2-mode regulator and fwd switch. I'm expecting it to turn out to be the higher capacity version of the UltraFire C8-A1 that I modified the same way. They both have SMO reflectors and the dimensions of the head and body look to be the same except for the fatter tube to fit the bigger battery in the Romisen.



I was originally excited about these new cell sizes for their ability to turn lights that would be cool - if not for their unfortunate 3AAA battery configuration - into truly cool lights. Quickly, they have spawned the hunt for lights that can be categorized as such. That Romisen RC-U8 falls in to that category. It arrived today. After unscrewing the head, the threaded PVC stopper may be unscrewed and removed from the top side. Both cells mentioned in this thread fit perfectly with no rattle. 

The dimensions of the RC-U8 are such that it is significantly shorter than the UltraFire C8-A1 that I had expected it would compare to. More importantly, it's head diameter is narrower, and so it would provide a larger, less intense spot with the XML than the C8-A1. I've not yet decided whether or not to give it the XML treatment, but at the moment, I'm leaning toward not. In it's favor, the SMO reflector it comes with is perfectly matched and perfectly focused for the stock XPE. The perfectly round and sharp spot it casts is more intense than the spot of the XPG in the SmallSun CY-37 modded with the wider and deeper KD XPG SMO reflector that I mentioned above. It is so perfect in fact, that I have avoided removing the bezel to inspect the innards of the head from fear of not being able to easily reproduce the perfect focus on reassembly.

So rarely does a light from DX in its stock form ever please me so much that I leave it stock (except for the battery). This might be only the second time that's ever happened. (The first was the UltraFire MCU-C88, for which I only changed the battery carrier.)


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## djjeffa (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*

so would a 22600 make my sa-8 brighter than with 3 x AAA's or even 2 X cr123's ?


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## Techjunkie (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*



djjeffa said:


> so would a 22600 make my sa-8 brighter than with 3 x AAA's or even 2 X cr123's ?


 
I'm not sure what an sa-8 is, but here's a general rule:

The 22600 has much higher capacity than either of those two options and so will provide longer total runtime than either of them.

Maximum brightness can only be achieved if the LED can be fed the voltage required to run it at maximum brightness. Typically, that is in the 3.2-3.5V range.

Because of how much AAAs sag under load and how much resistance a 3AAA carrier introduces, a freshly charged 3AAA pack will have difficulty supplying the voltage required for max brightness, and brightness will continue to wane as the pack discharges and voltage continues to drop.


A 2*RCR123 (7.2V nominal) rechargeable "pack" will be able to provide maximum brightness for the pack's entire discharge cycle, until the "pack" is fully discharged down to the point where cell protection kicks in or where the cells should be discharged no further to avoid damage. 2*CR123A primaries will wane in brightness at the very end of their discharge when they have been run flat, so for all intents and purposes, it can be said that they too will offer maximum brightness for their entire (short) discharge cycle. (This statement assumes modest current demands of less than 2A.)

An LED powered by a 22600 will begin to wane in brightness only after the 22600 has discharged enough that it's voltage is less than the voltage required to drive the LED to maximum brightness. The point at which the 22600 has discharged enough for its voltage to drop that low is likely well after any of the other battery configurations have completely discharged. In other words, a 22600 with a discharge range from 4.2-2.7V will not discharge below the 3.5-3.3V under load until after the other battery configurations have completely depleted. After the 22600 voltage is lower than required for maximum brightness, the flashlight will dim, but will still be brighter than off, which is where it would be by then with other batteries.


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## djjeffa (Apr 7, 2011)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*

Thanks for the info here is what I got as far as specs
*Brand:*SAIK*Model:*SA-8*Emitter Brand/Type:*Cree XR-E*Emitter BIN:*Q4-WC*Total Emitters:*1*Brightness *[SIZE=+0](Manufacturer Rated):[/SIZE]180 lumens (manufacturer rated)*Runtime *[SIZE=+0](Manufacturer Rated):[/SIZE]2 hours (manufacturer rated)*Battery Configurations:*1 x 18650, 2 x 3.0V CR123A, 3 x 1.2V/1.5V AAA*Voltage Input:*3.6-6.0V 
but i dont know if the info is legit because im running 3 x aaa's and its comparable to a coworkers 60 lum light so im just tring to boost it up a bit, do you think a diffrent battey like the 22600 would do the trick or should i change the emmiter?


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## Techjunkie (Apr 7, 2011)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*



djjeffa said:


> Thanks for the info here is what I got as far as specs
> *Brand:*SAIK*Model:*SA-8*Emitter Brand/Type:*Cree XR-E*Emitter BIN:*Q4-WC*Total Emitters:*1*Brightness *[SIZE=+0](Manufacturer Rated):[/SIZE]180 lumens (manufacturer rated)*Runtime *[SIZE=+0](Manufacturer Rated):[/SIZE]2 hours (manufacturer rated)*Battery Configurations:*1 x 18650, 2 x 3.0V CR123A, 3 x 1.2V/1.5V AAA*Voltage Input:*3.6-6.0V
> but i dont know if the info is legit because im running 3 x aaa's and its comparable to a coworkers 60 lum light so im just tring to boost it up a bit, do you think a diffrent battey like the 22600 would do the trick or should i change the emmiter?



The voltage range in the specs tells all. With minimum input of 3.6V and maximum of 6.0V, it's using an AMC7135 based regulator. Very likely, the regulator uses 2 7135 chips and regulates current to 700mA max on high. I'm saying that based on experience deconstructing many cheap lights from China like this. 

3AAA, fresh off the charger or fresh out of the package will be able to push that much current through all the resistance in the carrier and other contacts, making the light as bright as with 2 CR123A primaries, but not for long. After a little use, the 3AAA will be dimmer than the 2 CR123A, so the easiest upgrade to keep this light at brightest it can presently achieve is to use 2 CR123A or 2 LiFePO4 16340, but that will not make it brighter than it is when the 3AAA are new and all the contacts are clean.

To make the light even brighter, a driver swap would be the best course of action. If you can solder, then replacing the existing regulator with a DC-DC converting driver lik DX 26111 would bring the following benefits:
* Preserve the same 3 modes you currently enjoy
* Increase brightness of max mode by increasing current from 700mA to 1000-1200mA
* Increase runtime with 2 CR123A by reducing current draw on those batteries even though current delivered to LED has increased
* Allow you to use 2 Li-Ion rechargeable cells which you presently cannot due to max input limit, if you so desire

A 22650 cell would not run your light any brighter than the brightest it can presently go. To increase maximum brightness, a driver replacement is necessary, and also more effective than only replacing the existing LED with one of a higher bin.


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## djjeffa (Apr 8, 2011)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*



Techjunkie said:


> The voltage range in the specs tells all. With minimum input of 3.6V and maximum of 6.0V, it's using an AMC7135 based regulator. Very likely, the regulator uses 2 7135 chips and regulates current to 700mA max on high. I'm saying that based on experience deconstructing many cheap lights from China like this.
> 
> 3AAA, fresh off the charger or fresh out of the package will be able to push that much current through all the resistance in the carrier and other contacts, making the light as bright as with 2 CR123A primaries, but not for long. After a little use, the 3AAA will be dimmer than the 2 CR123A, so the easiest upgrade to keep this light at brightest it can presently achieve is to use 2 CR123A or 2 LiFePO4 16340, but that will not make it brighter than it is when the 3AAA are new and all the contacts are clean.
> 
> ...


 
Wow you know your stuff what driver would you recomend if i wanted 1 mode and what led would get me closer to 200 lums with 2 rechargable surefire 3.7 123s ?

Btw whoever runs this sote needs to add a thankyou button.


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## Techjunkie (Apr 8, 2011)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*



djjeffa said:


> Wow you know your stuff what driver would you recomend if i wanted 1 mode and what led would get me closer to 200 lums with 2 rechargable surefire 3.7 123s ?
> 
> Btw whoever runs this sote needs to add a thankyou button.


 
You are welcome.

This thread is intended to discuss the new cell size, (specifically how it makes 3AAA lights interesting for those of us who would not give them a second glance), and around here, we like to keep things neat and tidy, so information is easy to find again. For the information you seek, I recommend searching for "LED drivers".

That's said, I'll "taint" this thread by providing the following tidbits:

A one mode driver that does what you describe can be found here, although there are many others, such as this very similar one here that I've never tried. There's a whole thread dedicated to exposing the features/benefits of many LED drivers. I recommend you find it.

As far as the emitter goes, there's plenty of light left in your XRE Q4 to be let out. Swapping the XRE Q4 in your light for an XRE R2 might provide more light at the same drive current, but it may come at the cost of a less appealing tint (all but one of my R2 bin shift toward purple). Q5-WC is a nice bin + tint combo for XRE, but hardly worth the trouble to upgrade.

If you become really obsessed, you can take the mod to a higher level and mod the driver to increase output to 1.8A (by adding a 0.68 ohm sense resistor on top of the existing SMD resistor), and/or swap the emitter for an XP-G, but then you'd also have to make sure good thermal compound is used on the star instead of the white silicone stuff typical in lights like yours. If you going to go that far, you might as well go full boat and use a 22650 cell, a 2.8A regulator, a KD forward switch (for higher currents), and a CREE XM-L for ~700 lumen.


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## jayflash (Jan 4, 2013)

*Re: Making 3AAA lights flashaholic worthy - the 22600 & 22650*

If this was posted already, I missed it. If you have them on hand, 17500 LiIons work nicely when inserted into a short piece of plumbing PVC.


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