# A headlamp with few specific demands for a world downfall.



## cxax (Jan 2, 2013)

Hello.
My name is Cxax, I've read this forum carefully but still cannot decide.
This is what I would like to get:
- strong max light for emergency use,
- optimal medium or low mode for everyday use (camping, tire changing, etc.),
- very low mode for maps and books reading,
- red light would be nice,
- throw and flow modes,
- it will be used with Eneloops however in case of emergency must work with alkaline batteries,
- water or at least rainproof,
- RELIABLE.


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## Lighthouse one (Jan 2, 2013)

Zebralight SC52...or the headlamp equivalent. Amazing light!


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## B0wz3r (Jan 3, 2013)

cxax said:


> Hello.
> My name is Cxax, I've read this forum carefully but still cannot decide.
> This is what I would like to get:
> - strong max light for emergency use,
> ...



I second the recommendation for a Zebra. I'd suggest the H51Fw. Doesn't have the red option, but it's a better headlamp than anything else in the same price range. 

If you really want a LOT of lumens on the high end, then get an H600Fw. Also doesn't have the red mode, and it runs on 18650 only, so if you're not already using li-ion cells, you'll have to invest in them and an appropriate charger. You're also stuck dealing with how to recharge them in a SHTF situation.

Another option to consider is the new Spark SX5-320nw. It uses an external battery back that can run on either 3xAAA or 3xAA. Brighter on max than any of the 1xAA Zebras, and with a longer burn time. Also has an optional 18650 battery pack if you want it. Biggest disadvantage is the external battery pack from the light itself.


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## cxax (Jan 3, 2013)

Lighthouse one said:


> Zebralight SC52...or the headlamp equivalent. Amazing light!



I think that 47 Quark Pro QP2A or QP2A-X will perform better as a standard flashlight.



B0wz3r said:


> I second the recommendation for a Zebra. I'd suggest the H51Fw. Doesn't have the red option, but it's a better headlamp than anything else in the same price range.
> 
> If you really want a LOT of lumens on the high end, then get an H600Fw. Also doesn't have the red mode, and it runs on 18650 only, so if you're not already using li-ion cells, you'll have to invest in them and an appropriate charger. You're also stuck dealing with how to recharge them in a SHTF situation.
> 
> Another option to consider is the new Spark SX5-320nw. It uses an external battery back that can run on either 3xAAA or 3xAA. Brighter on max than any of the 1xAA Zebras, and with a longer burn time. Also has an optional 18650 battery pack if you want it. Biggest disadvantage is the external battery pack from the light itself.



Zebra H51Fw was one of my top 5, even without the red mode. Another considered headlamp is BD Storm, however it has quite strong (4 lumens) the lowest mode and has annoying mode auto-switching during on-off. Moreover it may not be highly reliable. 
I was also looking for Petzl headlamps but it seems they don't offer anything meeting my needs, do they? Is there any alternative to Zebra (no external batteries, AA or AAA only)? Preferably not Fenix.


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## Gregozedobe (Jan 3, 2013)

cxax said:


> - throw and flow modes


If you meant "Throw and Flood modes" then have a look at the Spark range of headlamps. Another alternative is to get one of the std reflector model Zebralights and carry some diffuser film for when you need more flood.


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## subwoofer (Jan 3, 2013)

cxax this is for a world downfall - what do you have planned!

Well if TSHTF I would want more than one light. The Zebralight H51 or H502, plus the Fenix HL30. The HL30 gives you a red light and a good working beam. The Zebralights will run off a single cell, whatever you can scavenge and have moon modes.

For throw on a headlight the Fenix HP11 is good and with a 4AA battery pack gives longer runtime and powerful beam.

That would be my two or three or four.


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## eh4 (Jan 3, 2013)

B0wz3r said:


> I second the recommendation for a Zebra. I'd suggest the H51Fw. Doesn't have the red option, but it's a better headlamp than anything else in the same price range.
> 
> If you really want a LOT of lumens on the high end, then get an H600Fw. Also doesn't have the red mode, and it runs on 18650 only, so if you're not already using li-ion cells, you'll have to invest in them and an appropriate charger. You're also stuck dealing with how to recharge them in a SHTF situation.
> 
> Another option to consider is the new Spark SX5-320nw. It uses an external battery back that can run on either 3xAAA or 3xAA. Brighter on max than any of the 1xAA Zebras, and with a longer burn time. Also has an optional 18650 battery pack if you want it. Biggest disadvantage is the external battery pack from the light itself.



I have the H51Fc and I second B0wz3r's claims about the H51Fw.
If I were set up with solar recharging for LiFePO4 18650 batteries then I would absolutely be owning multiple H600w Zebra lights for long term, all purpose lights... For 20 years without resupply.


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## eh4 (Jan 3, 2013)

Let the red led be its own thing, you can Make a red led light that will run forever on potatoes and some strips of copper and zinc if you want to. Just don't get hung up on the red light led part.


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## hopkins (Jan 4, 2013)

cxax - reliable = LED + resistor + 3 AA eneloops + on/off switch. 

Many low cost headlamps out there that fit this basic concept that you can thread a Zebra light onto the head strap for multi mode use.

Having 2 independent lights on the same head strap guarantees you'll have light if one fails.


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## B0wz3r (Jan 4, 2013)

cxax said:


> I think that 47 Quark Pro QP2A or QP2A-X will perform better as a standard flashlight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Take a good look at the Sparks. I really like them. They are right up there with Zebras as my favorite headlamps. My H51Fw and my ST5-190nw are my two most used headlamps. The advantage most of them have over the Zebras is the "T" body design; this gives them an edge over the Zebras if you want to wear one under a hood or over a cap or hat. The forward projection of the emitter housing off the 'top' of the "T" means they suffer less umbrage than a Zebra in the same situation. On the other hand, most of them lack a true moonlight mode that all the Zebras have. I also tend to prefer Zebra's headbands as well.

I've had several headlamps from the big-name outdoor equipment makers, primarily Princeton Tec and Black Diamond. Most of their high end models are more expensive than the Sparks or Zebras, and don't perform nearly as well. I consider all but the very top of the line models from PT, BD, and Brunton as well to be inferior to the Zebras and Sparks. Since I discovered Zebras, I've gifted or repurposed all those old headlamps and they rarely see use anymore.


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## Buckley (Jan 10, 2013)

cxax, I recommend you think carefully about how you plan to use a headlamp in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. Typically, you will find that a headlamp is useful for arms-length to very short range (perhaps 10 meters) tasks that require two hands to accomplish. For longer distances, a hand-held torch is generally more convenient and more effective. 

If you agree with this analysis, then I would concur with B0wz3r's recommendation to look carefully at the floody versions of the Zebralights and Sparks.

Good hunting!


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## jonathanluu2 (Jan 11, 2013)

I will chime in to say I have had very much enjoyed my H51Fw (F for floody, w for neutral white). I have used it for camping, changing a tire, and reading, along with many other things around the house. I havent noticed much of a need for a red light for me. I used to have a cheap $15 energizer headlamp that had a red mode, but I NEVER used it. I just cycled through the mode. I find that using a low output mode on my Zebralight preserves my night vision.

It covers all bases except the "throw" mode and I would be hesitant to say it covers "world downfall emergency situations". It just doesnt focus the beam to get a good throw across a field. Like many say here, "just get both!" And I dont think you would go wrong with a nice floody headlamp and a cool handheld (or another headlamp) that can throw a narrow beam that you keep in the back pocket.


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## eh4 (Jan 12, 2013)

jonathanluu2 said:


> I will chime in to say I have had very much enjoyed my H51Fw (F for floody, w for neutral white). I have used it for camping, changing a tire, and reading, along with many other things around the house. I havent noticed much of a need for a red light for me. I used to have a cheap $15 energizer headlamp that had a red mode, but I NEVER used it. I just cycled through the mode. I find that using a low output mode on my Zebralight preserves my night vision.
> 
> It covers all bases except the "throw" mode and I would be hesitant to say it covers "world downfall emergency situations". It just doesnt focus the beam to get a good throw across a field. Like many say here, "just get both!" And I dont think you would go wrong with a nice floody headlamp and a cool handheld (or another headlamp) that can throw a narrow beam that you keep in the back pocket.



That combo is hard to beat.


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## dparr (Jan 16, 2013)

B0wz3r said:


> I second the recommendation for a Zebra. I'd suggest the H51Fw. Doesn't have the red option, but it's a better headlamp than anything else in the same price range.
> 
> If you really want a LOT of lumens on the high end, then get an H600Fw. Also doesn't have the red mode, and it runs on 18650 only, so if you're not already using li-ion cells, you'll have to invest in them and an appropriate charger. You're also stuck dealing with how to recharge them in a SHTF situation.
> 
> Another option to consider is the new Spark SX5-320nw. It uses an external battery back that can run on either 3xAAA or 3xAA. Brighter on max than any of the 1xAA Zebras, and with a longer burn time. Also has an optional 18650 battery pack if you want it. *Biggest disadvantage is the external battery pack from the light itself*.



I just ordered a Spark SX5.

From this cavers point of view the biggest advantage is the external battery pack.

That was the main selling point for me. Looks like a great lamp.

I love this forum.


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## Bolster (Jan 16, 2013)

TEOTWAWKI? Would use a very common cell (AA) and be rechargeable (Eneloop) preferably through a solar source (such as a Nomad 7). Fantasies aside, TEOTW would be a reversion back to previous times -- subsistence farming, probably, so you'd be using the headlamp to extend your workday -- meaning flood would be most useful. If cells were rare and valuable, a single cell light would be great. A ZL would be nice (if you didn't get it wet) or a Spark with 1 or 2 cells. I think the SD52 would be a decent SHTF light, given you can convert it into a spot spill with optional reflector.

SX5 would not be my choice as it requires 3 common cells to power (AA or AAA) and has a cable, which is a known source of failure.


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## eh4 (Jan 17, 2013)

Floody is a great compromise, 3x-4x (subjective) the range of pure flood with almost as much utility at arm's reach.
Zebra Light does it right with their floody lens, at arm length there is a bright central zone about the size of a basketball that tapers off smoothly to nearly nothing... but well beyond the advertised 90 deg. There's very, very little light in the extreme periphery but it's still useful for detecting objects out of the corner of my eye.

I'd rather get a light with replaceable optics than a dedicated flood, except for the ZL H502c, I'm going to have to make an exception for that one, and maybe get a spare too.


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## B0wz3r (Jan 17, 2013)

dparr said:


> I just ordered a Spark SX5.
> 
> From this cavers point of view the biggest advantage is the external battery pack.
> 
> ...



Hey, if it works for you, that's great.  Personally, I really dislike extra battery packs, because I use my headlamps mostly for camping and the like, and am often sitting or laying down when I'm using them. I have done a bit of caving, and really liked it, and would love to do more.


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## dparr (Jan 18, 2013)

B0wz3r said:


> Hey, if it works for you, that's great.  Personally, I really dislike extra battery packs, because I use my headlamps mostly for camping and the like, and am often sitting or laying down when I'm using them. I have done a bit of caving, and really liked it, and would love to do more.



When my Spark SX5 comes in tomorrow I will hard-mount it to my caving helment. So it will essentially be one unit.

I agree with you that a single lamp/battery unit makes a much better headlamp for everyday use.

The Spark SX5 seems to be the "Swiss Army Knife" of headlamps with so many battery options.


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## B0wz3r (Jan 18, 2013)

dparr said:


> When my Spark SX5 comes in tomorrow I will hard-mount it to my caving helment. So it will essentially be one unit.
> 
> I agree with you that a single lamp/battery unit makes a much better headlamp for everyday use.
> 
> The Spark SX5 seems to be the "Swiss Army Knife" of headlamps with so many battery options.



I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sorely tempted to get one, instead of an ST6-460nw. (And unfortunately, I can't afford both...) 

I really need to sit down and figure out what my main use for a brighter/larger headlamp would be, and then decide which of the two would best meet my needs.


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## Bolster (Jan 18, 2013)

B0wz3r said:


> I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sorely tempted to get one....



Dude, I basically wrote my SX5 review with you in mind. I agree with you 100% that convenience is paramount, which is why I have mine mounted on a bump cap. It takes me a fraction of a second to put the whole thing on and go. I also thought you'd likely want to consider pulling the reflector, as you tend to be more of a flood-hound as far as I can tell. The place I use my SX5 the most is in dark rooms. Garages, houses where the electricity is turned off, etc. Seems sort of heavy for a camping light. Be a great poor-man's caving light.

The SX5 strikes me as an unusually good deal, money-wise, in the world of headlamps. That's what pushed me over the edge--that, and its ability to convert into a flood light. OTOH, if I could have either the SD52 or the SX5, I'd choose the SD52--no battery pack to contend with, and only a little less lumens. The SD52 just might be my EOTWAWKI light, provided I could find TWO eneloops after the EOTW. 

Hard-mount would rock. I am considering that also.


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## reppans (Jan 19, 2013)

In a TEOTWAWKI situation, I personally would much rather rely on with a twisty, or mechanical clicky, over an electronic clicky just to reduce the points of potential failure, and/or at least give you half a chance of correcting the situation with a DIY repair or wire bypass. THIS recent thread seems to have several folks that have electronic ?switch? problems. I also really makes you wonder why these dedicated electronic switch manufacturers seem to feel uncomfortable offering competitive warranties.

I also like having different purpose/battery lights yet with parts commonality that can Lego. Course the advantage of the different battery tubes is obvious, but also, as your lights fail (and eventually they all will), as long as it's not the same part, you have a decent chance of cobbling together a working light from otherwise dead parts.

I'm a camper and used to be a diehard headlamp fan, but have now moved over to flashlights for the much better selection and portability, and find them to work just fine with a good headband, or in my case, with a minimalist EDC "neckband" and lantern diffuser.




cxax said:


> I think that 47 Quark Pro QP2A or QP2A-X will perform better as a standard flashlight..



Even though the H52 runtimes beat out the QP2A-X on 4 of its 5 modes (with near perfect lumen matches) with half the batteries?? ;-)


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## Bolster (Jan 19, 2013)

reppans said:


> ...used to be a diehard headlamp fan, but have now moved over to flashlights for the much better selection and portability, and find them to work just fine with a good headband, or in my case, with a minimalist EDC "neckband" and lantern diffuser....



Blasphemy and heresy. I moved the opposite direction. I basically don't need/use handhelds anymore.


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## reppans (Jan 19, 2013)

Bolster said:


> Blasphemy and heresy. I moved the opposite direction. I basically don't need/use handhelds anymore.



LOL... well, I guess this is the Headlamp sub-forum after all ;-)


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## uk_caver (Jan 19, 2013)

I don't really understand the 'better selection of flashlights' argument.
Surely the relevant thing is whether there is a headlamp available for a particular job, not how many dozen flashlights there might or might not be with a particular beam pattern/power source/UI/power levels.

I can't think of many situations where I'd use a headlamp where a flashlight wouldn't be a royal PITA.


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## B0wz3r (Jan 19, 2013)

Bolster said:


> Dude, I basically wrote my SX5 review with you in mind. I agree with you 100% that convenience is paramount, which is why I have mine mounted on a bump cap. It takes me a fraction of a second to put the whole thing on and go. I also thought you'd likely want to consider pulling the reflector, as you tend to be more of a flood-hound as far as I can tell. The place I use my SX5 the most is in dark rooms. Garages, houses where the electricity is turned off, etc. Seems sort of heavy for a camping light. Be a great poor-man's caving light.
> 
> The SX5 strikes me as an unusually good deal, money-wise, in the world of headlamps. That's what pushed me over the edge--that, and its ability to convert into a flood light. OTOH, if I could have either the SD52 or the SX5, I'd choose the SD52--no battery pack to contend with, and only a little less lumens. The SD52 just might be my EOTWAWKI light, provided I could find TWO eneloops after the EOTW.
> 
> Hard-mount would rock. I am considering that also.



Thanks B,... I read it and it's excellent!  

And, I'm still thinking about it. I've got enough small headlamps for camping use, and the like, that I honestly could deal with the external battery pack. And it'd save me the extra $30 - $40 for a couple of additional protected 18650's I'd need for the ST6 as well as the lower cost of the light itself. And yeah, for me, flood is more important for a headlamp, and also what I prefer. The idea of a narrower angle pure-flood beam is _very_ appealing. Did yours come with a frosted lens as well, like the ST5's and ST6's do? After comparing my H502d with my ST5 with the frosted lens, I find I prefer the center weighted flood of the frosted lens to the pure flood of the H502.


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## reppans (Jan 19, 2013)

uk_caver said:


> I don't really understand the 'better selection of flashlights' argument.
> Surely the relevant thing is whether there is a headlamp available for a particular job, not how many dozen flashlights there might or might not be with a particular beam pattern/power source/UI/power levels.
> 
> I can't think of many situations where I'd use a headlamp where a flashlight wouldn't be a royal PITA.





reppans said:


> I'm a camper and used to be a diehard headlamp fan, but have now moved over to flashlights for the much better selection and portability, *and find them to work just fine with a good headband, or in my case, with a minimalist EDC "neckband" and lantern diffuser.*



What do you not understand? To put it another way, there is no efficient, AA, 14500, sub-lumen, EDC-able light with a decent warranty in the headlamp arena... so I buy traditional flashlights and use them in decent headbands/neckbands, when I find I need my hands-free..... works great for me.


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## Bolster (Jan 20, 2013)

reppans said:


> LOL... well, I guess this is the Headlamp sub-forum after all ;-)



LOL, all in good fun. I would, however, give my first born to learn what a GOOD headstrap for a handheld is. I guess I haven't encountered one. There are times I'd strap on a handheld, if I had a good handheld, and if I had a good strap. 



B0wz3r said:


> The idea of a narrower angle pure-flood beam is _very_ appealing. Did yours come with a frosted lens as well, like the ST5's and ST6's do? After comparing my H502d with my ST5 with the frosted lens, I find I prefer the center weighted flood of the frosted lens to the pure flood of the H502.



Hey! Now that you mention it...No, it did not! No frosted lens! And not aware of one offered, either! That seems something of an oversight.

Well darn it. Now that you mentioned the frosted lens, I miss it.


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## uk_caver (Jan 20, 2013)

reppans said:


> What do you not understand? To put it another way, there is no efficient, AA, 14500, sub-lumen, EDC-able light with a decent warranty in the headlamp arena... so I buy traditional flashlights and use them in decent headbands/neckbands, when I find I need my hands-free..... works great for me.


I suppose it's a matter of personal taste.

Personally, I can't see much point in a 14500 - a cell with essentially similar capacity to a decent NiMH, but which can only be used in a subset of the places an AA can be used.
I'm not hugely bothered about warranties since as long as a light outlasts seller obligations under consumer protection legislation (where I live), it's well past the early part of the failure curve, and will likely last a long time.
Personally, I have little use for a sub-lumen headlight - about the dimmest setting I want is a few flood lumens for reading.
Flashlights in headbands wouldn't really work for me - I wear glasses and sometimes have meaningful hair, neither of which are great for sidemount lights.

As for EDC, I suppose the light I carry most frequently is a 1xAAA flashlight, but the fact I have that light for occasional unplanned use doesn't remotely suggest to me that I should fail to use headlamps for all the uses where they're better than flashlights, and where I can predict in advance the need for a headlamp, which I typically can.

Excluding the odd 1xAAA backup light which gets occasional use, I'm not sure how many people I know who regularly do things in the dark even own flashlights.


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## reppans (Jan 20, 2013)

uk_caver said:


> I suppose it's a matter of personal taste.



Completely agree... don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince anyone to give up their headlamps and use flashlights in aftermarket headbands, or argue that anyone should adopt my personal preferences in lights (see note below). All I'm saying is that I just can't find a headlamp that I like with the do-it-all versatility I prefer so I went with traditional flashlights and use them with a headband (actually a DIY neckband), or with my DIY lantern diffuser, when I need hands-free illumination for camping or specific task work.

I will also admit that my DIY neckband and lantern diffuser, will not be quite as good as a dedicated headlamp or lantern for those specific purposes, but I am more than happy with the compromise given both items together occupy less weight and volume than a AAA battery, and so are with me in a back pocket 24/7, with my 1xAA/14500 clipped in my front pocket.

Note: The one feature, however, I would consider an absolute necessity, given that this is a TEOTWAWKI thread after all, is having an efficient sub-lumen mode. Having the option of running a single AA for hundreds of hours, not to mention preserving your night vision, maintaining your stealth, and having a battery vampire mode that will run on near dead AAs, AAAs, and 9Vs that will litter the ruins after the collapse, is simply too important to pass up.


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## RNDDUDE (Jan 21, 2013)

When there is a "world downfall", where do you expect to obtain batteries long-term? Why not a rechargeable light that can be re-powered by any number of rube-goldberg type generators, even hand-crank....


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## reppans (Jan 21, 2013)

In the short run (yr or two) from smoke detectors, wall clocks, thermostats before these devices can completely drain them. Alks last 5-10 yrs, so perhaps some sitting in unused kids toys, remote controls, etc. Heck, with a vampire moonlight mode, you can get 5-10 hours out "dead" batts others may throw away because they were unable to power up other devices. I also have plenty of Eneloops and a Powerfilm and GZ solar chargers, but I like to retain as many options a possible.

But this is all hypothetical mumbo jumbo.... if were that bad, I don't think I'll last that long anyways. ;-)


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## B0wz3r (Jan 21, 2013)

Bolster said:


> Hey! Now that you mention it...No, it did not! No frosted lens! And not aware of one offered, either! That seems something of an oversight.
> 
> Well darn it. Now that you mentioned the frosted lens, I miss it.



I don't remember if you mentioned it in your review, but does the bezel unscrew to access the lens? If so, it should be a simple matter to pop it out, put some DC-fix on, and trim it down and reinstall. I'm hoping that's the case, but if the bezel doesn't unscrew, then that'll be a strike against it for me.

I'm still probably a couple months out from getting one though, probably early March at this point, so I've got time to stew about it.


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## dparr (Jan 21, 2013)

B0wz3r said:


> I don't remember if you mentioned it in your review, but does the bezel unscrew to access the lens? If so, it should be a simple matter to pop it out, put some DC-fix on, and trim it down and reinstall. I'm hoping that's the case, but if the 26650, then that'll be a strike against it for me.
> 
> I'm still probably a couple months out from getting one though, probably early March at this point, so I've got time to stew about it.



The bezel unscrews, then you remove the lens, an o-ring and the "orange peel" reflector. 

Very wide flood with it all removed.

It's really a great headlamp.


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## cxax (Feb 10, 2013)

Than your for all your suggestions. For the last few weeks I struggling with my choice and I decided to buy three lights:
1. A headlamp, flood or flood/throw. I'm choosing between Zebras' H51Fw and H502d.
2. A small single or double AA thrower with long and narrow beam and with very high and very low settings (no specific light chosen yet).
3. A strong 4 or 6 AA light. I'm chosing between Fenix LD41 and Olight S65 Baton, being closer to LD41.

As this is a headlamps forum just please help me chosse between these two.
To follow my choice for points 2 and three check this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?355005-A-set-of-lights-for-a-world-downfall


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## Shorty66 (Feb 11, 2013)

id say ditch the second light and only buy the h502 and a really strong light.
You will use the h502 most of the time anyway and if you really need to see far you will want to use the strongest thrower you got.

The h502 also is great as a handheld light - don`t underestimate that headlamp 

Edit: Also, i would take the cool white version as an TEOTWAWKI light. Its just more efficient on batteries and works well enough.


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## Changchung (Feb 11, 2013)

Spark SD6 with unprotected 18650

Sorry...

AA batteries... I will choice the Zebra h502


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## B0wz3r (Feb 11, 2013)

cxax said:


> Than your for all your suggestions. For the last few weeks I struggling with my choice and I decided to buy three lights:
> 1. A headlamp, flood or flood/throw. I'm choosing between Zebras' H51Fw and H502d.
> 2. A small single or double AA thrower with long and narrow beam and with very high and very low settings (no specific light chosen yet).
> 3. A strong 4 or 6 AA light. I'm chosing between Fenix LD41 and Olight S65 Baton, being closer to LD41.
> ...



For 1) I'd go with the H51Fw. I have both the 51Fw and 502d and I prefer the Fw, as I find the beam more useable. The 502d creates a lot of glare in my glasses and if I angle it up to avoid that, it can be bothersome to others around me. That said, if you don't wear glasses, then the 502d might be a better choice for you.

For 2) there aren't a lot of small throwers around, but there are some. A good choice for this might be a Dereelight Javelin. It's a P60 host that holds 2xAA's and has an optional extender to hold 3xAA's. You can easily upgrade it with different modules in the future, and I think it also has an optional aspheric lens available, to make it a pure thrower, but I don't remember for certain. 

For 3) you might want to check out the new NiteCore EA4. It's a 4xAA light, available in either cool or neutral tints, and very reasonably priced, with exceptional output. I'm considering getting one myself in the next few months. It's also very compact, literally fits inside of a toilet paper tube. Selfbuilt did a really nice review on it in the reviews section and gave it a good overall review.

In general, you might want to consider getting a single light that will bridge your no.'s 2 and 3. There are several torches out there that run on either 2xCR123 or 1x18650 that are small enough to pocket or belt EDC, and have an output in the 750 - 800 lumen range, like the Zebralight SC600 and the Spark SL6. The SC600 in particular would be a good choice for this, because it's easily belt carry-able, and also has a moonlight mode as well. I'm sure there are others as well, but I'm not up to date on what other similar torches are out there right now from other companies.


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## beast1210 (Feb 11, 2013)

cxax said:


> Than your for all your suggestions. For the last few weeks I struggling with my choice and I decided to buy three lights:
> 1. A headlamp, flood or flood/throw. I'm choosing between Zebras' H51Fw and H502d.
> 2. A small single or double AA thrower with long and narrow beam and with very high and very low settings (no specific light chosen yet).
> 3. A strong 4 or 6 AA light. I'm chosing between Fenix LD41 and Olight S65 Baton, being closer to LD41.
> ...



Headlamp with flood/throw I would go with the Spark SD52 

Beam shotshttp://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...rk-SD-series&p=4133067&highlight=#post4133067




2 AA My choice is the eagletac p20a2 w/ c2 module



4 AA would be the Jetbeam pa40


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## Bolster (Feb 12, 2013)

World Downfall: 

1AA or 2AA lights, 
+ Eneloops,
+ solar charger, such as GoalZero.


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## larcal (Dec 8, 2013)

Well, in the vein of this thread, world downfall, I'd like to ask what the congealed wisdom is about the durability of Fenix 1 aa and 2 aa lights standing by themselves and also compared with other popular mid range choices like Zebra and surefire without getting into Malkoffs etc.


Separately, Am I right that the side switch on an ld22 is electronic and the end switch mechanical and so the older ld20 with no side switch or similiar would be more durable?


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## reppans (Dec 8, 2013)

larcal said:


> Well, in the vein of this thread, world downfall, I'd like to ask what the congealed wisdom is about the durability of Fenix 1 aa and 2 aa lights standing by themselves and also compared with other popular mid range choices like Zebra and surefire without getting into Malkoffs etc.
> 
> 
> Separately, Am I right that the side switch on an ld22 is electronic and the end switch mechanical and so the older ld20 with no side switch or similiar would be more durable?



I like following the problem/failure/reliability/durability posts on CPF so I'll give you my $0.02, which of course, is purely anecdotal and only worth what you paid for. 

I don't own any, but Fenix seems to have a very good reliability rating pre-electronic side switch. Lately, there have been quite a few Fenix side switch problem threads - you can search "Fenix+side" in the CPF Google box. 

Zebralight has come a long way IMHO.. This place used to be littered with ZL reliability polls, water leak problems etc, but that has really died down. Still, I'm uncomfortable with a manufacturer that is uncomfortable with providing a decent, industry standard 2 yr warranty. 

I have a Malkoff, and while the head and tube feel bullet proof, the clicky feels kinda ordinary and (speaking with Gene) will typically be the first point of failure - what's the point of a tank driving on pneumatic tires. I also find it very humorous that in the "best customer service" threads, you'll find a lot of Surefire posts - "my SF broke and they fixed it w/o hassle." 

IMHO, clickies are the most significant moving part and wear item (rubber) and will likely be the first point of failure on a flashlight, assuming it is not frequently drop tested. I can't argue that a mechanical clicky is any more reliable or durable than an electronic clicky (although that's my gut feeling), but I absolutely do know that mechanical clickies are much, much easier to self service (replace rubber boots), swap out with a similar light, and at the very least, can be easily by-passed with a piece of tinfoil (yes I EDC a piece in my wallet, also for battery versatility) turning them into twisty lights. 

In summary, I try to stick with mechanical clicky lights for my critical and SHTF lights, despite the cool UIs and battery meters of the electronic clicky lights.


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## degarb (Dec 8, 2013)

cxax said:


> Hello.
> My name is Cxax, I've read this forum carefully but still cannot decide.
> This is what I would like to get:
> - strong max light for emergency use,
> ...




If you want flood and throw, there is only the HP25 by fenix, for true both modes for around $60. Their HP11 does flood okay with a diffuser, but this is a compromise. Some above suggestions compromise on throw. 

Zebra is not known for throw. And their runtime settings suck when I read them. Fenix Hp25 runtimes kinda suck on throw, but are pretty good on flood side. At least too the fenix uses a buck driver, which is very efficient. 

Fenix has a limited lifetime warranty. 

And I have many form factor lights. I find the headlamp with the rear pack form factor the most often grabbed from a large bag of lights, due to brighter output or longer runtime. They also fit in small cases, glove compartments, consoles, just fine. Often coil up so small they can be hard to find in a tool bag. A single 18650/3 AAA headlamp or flashlight hangs from belt, if that is your fashion mode, which is where the zebra would work.

In theory, zooming aspheric lens light can do both. Yet, I measure huge lumen loss in zoom mode and significant loss pulled wide. Side by side with a reflector light, they (aspherics) just don't compare well. But, I would still better be able to look at things for inspection (8 hours straight) with them than a flood only light.

Sparks talked of getting screw on lenses, so you could get the beam pattern you want. But, never materialized. Until then, I will not buy one (the candela and runtimes do not satisfy my need). Armytek has my eye, but I don't think the runtimes match up to a work day or half day. I only mention these, not because I think they do both flood and throw, with no compromise; but, because they have my attention.

Another idea that makes too much sense is multi fuel. Also any single 18650 light should also come with a sleeve to allow 3 AAA for emergencies; the two sizes (18650 with sleeve and typical 3 AAA holder) are almost identical. I have even converted some store 3 AAA lights to hold a single 18650 for waaaayyy better runtime.


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## larcal (Dec 9, 2013)

> reppans;4335104]I like following the problem/failure/reliability/durability posts on CPF so I'll give you my $0.02, which of course, is purely anecdotal and only worth what you paid for.



Hello and thanks Reppans. Heh, anecdotal and winging it is great!



> I don't own any, but Fenix seems to have a very good reliability rating pre-electronic side switch. Lately, there have been quite a few Fenix side switch problem threads - you can search "Fenix+side" in the CPF Google box.



Interesting. So the old ld20/10 would be the thing. Wish fenix would come out with an update but they seem to have lost interest in that ui. What's your impression or memory of how they matched up to the similiar quark AA long term durability wise?

I had tried searching the side switch angle before original post and tried again after your answer but really didn't find much with so much irrelevent stuff to wade thru. A refererence to blown side switch from gassy cell. 

I like what you say further down about ease of service on mechanical switches that are in the tailcap. Very important point!



> Zebralight has come a long way IMHO.. This place used to be littered with ZL reliability polls, water leak problems etc, but that has really died down. Still, I'm uncomfortable with a manufacturer that is uncomfortable with providing a decent, industry standard 2 yr warranty.



Yeh, too bad. An H51/52 or 502 sure looks handy as long as it works. I guess tho don't know that the switch is electronic but whatever it is in the side so impossible probably to access and change.

Do you know of any similiar tiny headlamp whose switch assembly would be more friendly? Or just more durable in general. 


My initial inclination if forced to live rough would be to go the AA nimh, (alkaline if necessary) route but haven't really thought down this pathway much before.



> I have a Malkoff, and while the head and tube feel bullet proof, the clicky feels kinda ordinary and (speaking with Gene) will typically be the first point of failure - what's the point of a tank driving on pneumatic tires.




Hah!. Really! you feel as far as switch goes it's on same level as ld20. Fascinating. That MD2 is cool though even if not AA. Hope they'll send you extra tailcap parts



> I also find it very humorous that in the "best customer service" threads, you'll find a lot of Surefire posts - "my SF broke and they fixed it w/o hassle."




Exactly. And it is funny.




> IMHO, clickies are the most significant moving part and wear item (rubber) and will likely be the first point of failure on a flashlight, assuming it is not frequently drop tested. I can't argue that a mechanical clicky is any more reliable or durable than an electronic clicky (although that's my gut feeling), but I absolutely do know that mechanical clickies are much, much easier to self service (replace rubber boots), swap out with a similar light, and at the very least, can be easily by-passed with a piece of tinfoil (yes I EDC a piece in my wallet, also for battery versatility) turning them into twisty lights.




Aluminum foil. Good idea. 



> In summary, I try to stick with mechanical clicky lights for my critical and SHTF lights, despite the cool UIs and battery meters of the electronic clicky lights.


[/QUOTE]

Yep. Trouble is, when looking at new light, isn't it hard to know whether switch is electronic or mechanical? At least just looking at picture. Or maybe there is a way to judge. Even in the rare event you are holding it they both make a click sound or have similiar feeling, don't they?


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## reppans (Dec 9, 2013)

I think pre-Eswitch fenix LDs were more durable than Quarks, but think it's reversed now. Quarks are more complicate with moonlight and wide voltage tolerances (less reliable), but it's also now considered a old design (more reliable). Still, flashlight problems are a real lottery - my Malkoff went back with issues. For me, warranty and CS is very important and why I'm a 47s fanboy. If I had to send a light back to Asia and wait 2 months, I'd probably toss it in the garbage instead.

As a minimalist camper and traveler and don't really like dedicated headlamps anymore - too bulky and single purpose, so I rarely have one when I need it, but I do EDC a DIY a lantern diffuser and "necklamp" cord in my wallet for flashlight hands free - the bulk vs effectiveness ratio works well for me. I do like the ZL H series concept, and ZL makes a very nice product, but the company's marketing, warranty, CS policies makes my skin crawl - spec claims have disappointed me twice now.

I tried a bunch of 1xAAs, clicky and the ultra-versatile Quark AAX is my favorite by a good margin. The others may be a little better at one thing or another, but (IMHO) nothing covers as many bases as well, and there's quite a bit that the Quarks can do, than the others can't. For example, and to the point of this thread, it's the only light that can fully support all of those different cells (anything <19mm diameter actually).... all you need is a piece of MacGyver tinfoil.

You can usually tell the E-switches... side mount, battery meter or warning, and how the UI works. Otherwise, just read people's reviews soon after the light comes out.

Good luck on you pursuit for the ultimate SHTF light!


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## cxax (Sep 18, 2014)

I ended up buying Spark SD52. I'm very satisfied, it really suits my needs. The only pitfall is the electronic switch. It seems like I need to press it once just to wake it up and then press agsin to turn the light on.


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## frascati (Oct 24, 2014)

TEOTWAWKI? Whatever you come up with make sure to paint it drab puke green and bang it up a bit. In the "end" even your neighbor's timid little wife wouldn't hesitate to stove your skull in with a shovel for that handy gadget.


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