# 15 Year shelf life for Lithium batteries... Don't bet on it...



## Stereodude (May 23, 2008)

Tonight I got out a brand new still in the package a Energizer 2CR5 Lithium battery for my camera. It had an expiration date of 2010 on the package. I put it in the camera, and the camera doesn't turn on. I get out my multimeter and it measures a whopping 4.6V instead of the expected 6V. I bought the battery probably 12 years ago when I was in high school, and have kept it all along never opening the package or using it. Maybe lithium cells have gotten better since then, but it clearly was worthless prior to the date on the package.


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## greenLED (May 23, 2008)

I thought it was 10 year shelf-life...


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## husky20 (May 23, 2008)

12 years is a long time I'm pretty sure they only have a shelf life of about 8-10 years and thats in a perfect room temperature control.so your probably a few years to late.


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## Stereodude (May 23, 2008)

greenLED said:


> I thought it was 10 year shelf-life...


The E91's I bought around Christmas of 2007 have a date of 2022 on 'em. That's 15 years. :thinking:


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## Stereodude (May 23, 2008)

husky20 said:


> 12 years is a long time I'm pretty sure they only have a shelf life of about 8-10 years and thats in a perfect room temperature control.so your probably a few years to late.


I guess they shouldn't be putting a date 15 years out on the package then. :shakehead


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## dave w (May 23, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> Tonight I got out a brand new still in the package a Energizer 2CR5 Lithium battery for my camera. It had an expiration date of 2010 on the package. I put it in the camera, and the camera doesn't turn on. I get out my multimeter and it measures a whopping 4.6V instead of the expected 6V. I bought the battery probably 12 years ago when I was in high school, and have kept it all along never opening the package or using it. Maybe lithium cells have gotten better since then, but it clearly was worthless prior to the date on the package.


Seems like the 10 year or 15 year question is moot. By dates stamped on your package, the battery should still be good. Perhaps you have discovered the manufacturers secret. The "good to" or "use by" date they print on the packages is pure "pee-pee, poo-poo, ca-ca" and the manufacturers are betting we will never keep a pack long enough to find out(?) :sigh:


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## husky20 (May 23, 2008)

dave w said:


> Perhaps you have discovered the manufacturers secret. The "good to" or "use by" date they print on the packages is pure "pee-pee, poo-poo, ca-ca" and the manufacturers are betting we will never keep a pack long enough to find out(?) :sigh:


Its called marketing you hit the nail right on the head.:naughty: I wouldnt feel to confident in a batt that ive had lying around for more than a few years lithium or not.


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## Mr Happy (May 23, 2008)

Perhaps it went to sleep? Lithium batteries can do that (no, I'm not kidding).

Find a 4 cell flashlight bulb and connect it to the battery for a few minutes. You may find that the bulb starts out dim but after a while increases to full brightness. The battery is then woken up and can successfully be put back in your camera.

You may find this doesn't work, in which case your battery really is a dud, but you should do this test to make sure.


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## Stereodude (May 23, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Perhaps it went to sleep? Lithium batteries can do that (no, I'm not kidding).
> 
> Find a 4 cell flashlight bulb and connect it to the battery for a few minutes. You may find that the bulb starts out dim but after a while increases to full brightness. The battery is then woken up and can successfully be put back in your camera.
> 
> You may find this doesn't work, in which case your battery really is a dud, but you should do this test to make sure.


It won't light a 2 cell, 3 cell, or 4 cell maglite incan bulb.


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## Stereodude (May 23, 2008)

dave w said:


> Seems like the 10 year or 15 year question is moot. By dates stamped on your package, the battery should still be good. Perhaps you have discovered the manufacturers secret. The "good to" or "use by" date they print on the packages is pure "pee-pee, poo-poo, ca-ca" and the manufacturers are betting we will never keep a pack long enough to find out(?) :sigh:


Based on this experience, I certainly won't be buying any close to expiration date 2CR5's off ebay either.

Here's a good example. It's even older than mine.


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## Edwood (May 23, 2008)

husky20 said:


> Its called marketing you hit the nail right on the head.:naughty: I wouldnt feel to confident in a batt that ive had lying around for more than a few years lithium or not.



Nope. It's called fraud if they don't stand behind it. They should honor their printed date. Call or email for an RMA.


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## Illum (May 23, 2008)

Edwood said:


> Nope. It's called fraud if they don't stand behind it. They should honor their printed date. Call or email for an RMA.



I think your too hard on yourself...If false marketing is considered fraud then the state of capitalism here wouldn't work too well would it? Fair competition is a term that exists only on paper, unfortunately I too have been pretty ticked by "guarantees" on many appliances, batteries included:shakehead
first 12W LEDs then flashlights that lasts thousands of hours...yeah you could call that fraud too, good luck getting a RMA on those


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## husky20 (May 23, 2008)

Edwood said:


> Nope. It's called fraud if they don't stand behind it. They should honor their printed date. Call or email for an RMA.


What they fail to tell you is that if its not stored in a perfect never changing room temp controlled 72 degrees the time stamp means very little.:naughty:


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## WildChild (May 23, 2008)

I think only AA lithium have a shelf life of 15 years. Standard 3V or 6V (2 * 3V) have a shelf life of 10 years...


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## Black Rose (May 23, 2008)

Was it stored anywhere near that modded Sylvania lantern that looks like a nuclear blast? :laughing:

Seriously, since it says 2010 on the battery, contact Energizer and tell them their advertised best before date is not accurate.


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## paulr (May 23, 2008)

I bought a new Maxell DL223A battery (plastic capsule with two CR123A's inside) a few months ago and pried it open and found that both cells were corroded and one of them was dead. I took some icky looking photos that I may get around to posting here.


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## Marduke (May 23, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> Tonight I got out a brand new still in the package a Energizer 2CR5 Lithium battery for my camera. It had an expiration date of 2010 on the package. I put it in the camera, and the camera doesn't turn on. I get out my multimeter and it measures a whopping 4.6V instead of the expected 6V. I bought the battery probably 12 years ago when I was in high school, and have kept it all along never opening the package or using it. Maybe lithium cells have gotten better since then, but it clearly was worthless prior to the date on the package.



What was the storage temperature??


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## Illum (May 23, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> Was it stored anywhere near that modded Sylvania lantern that looks like a nuclear blast? :laughing:
> 
> Seriously, since it says 2010 on the battery, contact Energizer and tell them their advertised best before date is not accurate.



both duracell and energizer has the issue...I have a set of duracells that expired Sep 2006 and still tested 100% on ZTS and a package that expires in 2009 and most of died or halfway discharged after storing them for 2 years.

I don't have any Energizer Alkalines, only lithiums but they are used in lights lke L0D-CE or E01 where I can't keep track of its state of charge accurately

Alkalines have been known to be stored in fridges but personally It doesn't matter as long as your not storing them in the garage. As to Lithiums I store them in the fridge beside the eggs until mom complained about the "odor" around the eggs


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## paulr (May 23, 2008)

Marduke said:


> What was the storage temperature??



My 223? I didn't store it, I opened it up just a little while after receiving it from the dealer.


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## Stereodude (May 23, 2008)

Marduke said:


> What was the storage temperature??


Room temp. :shrug:


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## matrixshaman (May 24, 2008)

IIRC Lithiums used to have a 10 year shelf life - nearly all new ones had a date about 10 years out. I thought it was only recently they started putting them out 15 years so I assumed they had some change in chemistry that allowed them to last longer OR they found that they actually did last 15 years under good conditions. Whether a battery is still in it's package or not is not nearly as important as the temperatures and probably some other conditions under which it was stored or exposed to. If it was sitting in a car glovebox in Arizona summer heat (or similar heat) for even a few days that might take a couple years off its life I assume. I wouldn't condemn the manufacturer based on just one battery set in one incident. I have tended to save old batteries for many years. I know some were still good well after the expiration date.


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## Marduke (May 24, 2008)

There are two chemistries mentioned here. The Lithium Manganese Dioxide of 3v primary cells (ie CR123) and Lithium Iron Disulfide of ~1.7v primary cells (e2 L91's and L92's) have different self discharge rates, shelf lives, and temperature effects.


Lithium Iron Disulfide has the better shelf life of ~15-20 years, where Lithium Manganese Dioxide is about 10 years. Lithium cells can also "go to sleep", and may need "woken up" after long periods of inactivity.



None of these are excuses for the above posts, just possible considerations to think about.


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## kitelights (May 24, 2008)

WildChild said:


> I think only AA lithium have a shelf life of 15 years. Standard 3V or 6V (2 * 3V) have a shelf life of 10 years...


Bingo.

Regardless, they were in date and should be good. If you contact them, they will replace them.

I'm too lazy to look up the specs again, but the life at expiration is guaranteed to be somewhere between 50% and 80% (different chemistries have different %).

The AA cells started out at 10 years and were increased to 15 years because of "proprietary" advances in cell development. I doubt much attention has gone into the 2 cell camera packs anymore. Do any of the new cameras use them?


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## kitelights (May 24, 2008)

BTW, since you still use these, check out Best Buy. There's a thread under good deals for CR123s and CR2s - close out on Duracell 2 packs for $2.99. They also have your cells and the similar one to it for either $3.99 or $4.99. While I've seen a few 2014-2016 dates, most are 2017. 

I bought about 200 of the single cells - all were 2017.


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## Mr Happy (May 24, 2008)

kitelights said:


> I bought about 200 of the single cells - all were 2017.


Whoah! You're insane!

I bought 6 of them because I didn't like to pass up a bargain, but to spend $300 on throw-away items? That contrasts amazingly with other people here who sometimes write that they hesitate to spend $60 on a charger because it is too expensive.

There are some amazing variations in perceived value in this world.


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## jtr1962 (May 24, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Whoah! You're insane!
> 
> I bought 6 of them because I didn't like to pass up a bargain, but to spend $300 on throw-away items? That contrasts amazingly with other people here who sometimes write that they hesitate to spend $60 on a charger because it is too expensive.


+1 on that. Anyone who is going to use that many cells should seriously consider rechargeables. I only have 3 lights using 123s yet I already purchased a set of rechargeables for each. Prior to that these lights were practically useless to me. At even a $1 a pop for 123s, I was reluctant to use these lights as the $$ just added up way too fast.


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## yekim (May 24, 2008)

There are advantages to primaries. Extended disasters can make rechargeables worthless.



jtr1962 said:


> +1 on that. Anyone who is going to use that many cells should seriously consider rechargeables. I only have 3 lights using 123s yet I already purchased a set of rechargeables for each. Prior to that these lights were practically useless to me. At even a $1 a pop for 123s, I was reluctant to use these lights as the $$ just added up way too fast.


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## eebowler (May 24, 2008)

Less than TWO years after buying some Titanium CR123 cells, they all (10+)went to hell. Open circuit voltage under 2.95V and none had enough juice to output more than 300mA when shorted with a DMM.

ALL 2016 coin cells that come with these china made keychain lights start dimming without use within 3 months of ownership. I've attempted to buy 'new' ones but none of them arrived in a functional state.


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## 2xTrinity (May 24, 2008)

yekim said:


> There are advantages to primaries. Extended disasters can make rechargeables worthless.


Keep some primaries in a safe place for an emergency. but use rechargeables for day to day use. Both are guilt free lumens, and peace of mind for a disaster 

nother thing to consider though is that many chargers will run off of a car battery, so that is one way you could "refill" your rechargeable batteries -- even in a power outage either off of a dedicated lead-acid battery in your garage, or even off of your car.

Although, in my cases, lights of mine on low levels -- which are usually enough to get by on in pure darkness -- have runtimes so long that simply on the charged eneloops I have in my house, I could operate pretty much all the flashlights I'd need for weeks. Oh, and I keep about several dozen fauxton coin cell lights arund, so during emergencies I could actually afford to give those away, and stash them all over the house.


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## GarageBoy (May 24, 2008)

I have about 30 11 year old CR123s
Still usable


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