# Al headlamp for M60?



## Sgt. LED (Jan 6, 2009)

You know I would love to have an Aluminum headlamp that can take a Malkoff or similar LE and use a Surefire C bezel with enough mass to dissipate heat to the point of running an M60 without any worry. 

A band around the head and a wide strap crossing the top of my head so it is really secure.

A watertight battery pack that holds 2 18650's and a good belt clip on it. A modded Pelican case could work!
OR
A watertight batterypack that holds 3 CR123's and fits on the headband.

Would this really be THAT hard to do? Would anyone else like to have one? Is this an untapped market? Am I being stupid because it's 2AM? Do you think people would whine and cry because of it's weight?

*If you could make these how much would you charge for this host type headlamp?*
Remember, the maker would not need to supply the bezel, any LE, or any batteries.


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## ambientmind (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Who here would take up the gauntlet?*

I would take the challenge, except for the fact that I dont have any of the tools needed to make it! :mecry: I always wondered why more headlights and weaponlights dont take advantage of the ever expanding availability of P60 sized drop ins. Hmm...the world may never know. :thinking:


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Who here would take up the gauntlet?*

Well now that this have been moved to this area of CPF I might as well forget it.

I didn't want a one off, I wanted to see if there was a market for this sort of thing so I could try to get somebody interested in making many of these.

There is not enough traffic here to get anything meaningful started.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Who here would take up the gauntlet?*


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## divine (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Who here would take up the gauntlet?*

You expect to get a lot of traffic between 2am and noon?


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## Norm (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Who here would take up the gauntlet?*



Sgt. LED said:


> I would like this moved!


Please :kiss:


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Who here would take up the gauntlet?*


_Pretty Please._


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Who here would take up the gauntlet?*



divine said:


> You expect to get a lot of traffic between 2am and noon?


I was speaking about the "suprise" moving of the thread to an area that willl get very little traffic, not about how much traffic this thread got from 2A to noon.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: Who here would take up the gauntlet?*

:thumbsup:
Thanks!


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## NoFair (Jan 9, 2009)

I've been wanting one with 2 mounts for C series bezels for ages. I'd have one led drop in (multilevel) with a FM34 diffuser and one with a high output incan (2-300 lumen) and have both running on 2-4 18650s in a single pack worn on the body. Both heads would have separate switching. 

Shouldn't be too hard to make the mount and I could have switches on the wiring..

Sverre


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## Moddoo (Jan 9, 2009)

:wave:
Hello all,
first post
I have been lurking/absorbing for a little while now.
I am currently working on a headlamp that I believe fits your description.

The design is based on a p-60 size drop in.

My lights will have decent thermal management.
I plan to be able to run 2 R2s at 1A+, outdoors, without heat problems

It needs to be waterproof and durable.

current prototypes include:
1x18650 on front of strap with 1 or 2 modules.

1x18650 on back with 1 or 2 modules

2x18650 on hip/belt battery pack with 2 modules

The single 18650/ single module(or 2xcr123) should be around 150g with cells.

2 cree R2s on your head are pretty bright!

I need to learn the electronics side a bit better before I can really make a great light.

I am a mechanical engineer and we manufacture parts in house. So I have most of the tools necessary to get these types of projects done.

I spend a fair amount of time camping, and this is what plan to use the light(s) for

Any input will be appreciated.


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## Moddoo (Jan 9, 2009)

I reread your request.
A host type setup could be possible.

That is something that I could release before my electronics are all figured out.


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## dilbert (Jan 9, 2009)

What about the Fenix headband with a 6P/M60 on both sides? It would be brighter than my car's headlights! I'm not sure those clamps would work on a 6P though.


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## Sampolainen (Jan 9, 2009)

"Fits flashlights with 18-22mm outer diameter"

Not quite wide enough for the T-series... PD-series only


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## ahorton (Jan 11, 2009)

Removed my own off-topic thread. I didn't quite grasp what Sgt. was looking for.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 11, 2009)

Moddoo said:


> I reread your request.
> A host type setup could be possible.
> 
> That is something that I could release before my electronics are all figured out.


Wonderful!

Keep us posted. A simple host headlamp would be affordable to many and with a flexible batterypack could run a TON of different things in it!


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## NoFair (Jan 11, 2009)

Moddoo said:


> I reread your request.
> A host type setup could be possible.
> 
> That is something that I could release before my electronics are all figured out.


 
Sounds very nice:twothumbs


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## Martin SH (Jan 11, 2009)

ahorton said:


> In another month or so I'm planning to go into small scale production (~500 units in the first run) of an aluminium headlamp.
> 
> I'm sort of bashnig around the aesthetic side of it in this thread.
> 
> ...



Sounds great keep us posted!

Martin


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## jzmtl (Jan 11, 2009)

I think it may be too front heavy. The length of P60, and P60's front heavy design will make the center of gravity too much forward thus stability while moving around will be difficult to achieve.

Heatsinking would also be a concern like how SF is dealying their P61L, unless you make it specifically to fit the M60, but that wouldn't make sense economically.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 11, 2009)

ahorton, your headlamp is going to be made of aluminum but is not what I am looking for. 
Your headlamp sounds like the same approach of the Sgt. Burkett 18650 light. A great idea where you order the base and build/configure to your needs and I can see being excited and wanting to tell people about your headlamp I look forward to seeing where it goes. I wish it was P60 compatible but it isn't and I have to keep looking. Now if you are considering making a P60 host only version then let me know all about it. :thumbsup:


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 11, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> I think it may be too front heavy. The length of P60, and P60's front heavy design will make the center of gravity too much forward thus stability while moving around will be difficult to achieve.
> 
> Heatsinking would also be a concern like how SF is dealying their P61L, unless you make it specifically to fit the M60, but that wouldn't make sense economically.


 
I had hoped the battery pack on the rear of the headband could off-set that. As for heatsinking Gene has publicly stated the Al bezel alone is sufficient to run the M60 in a Nitroln body so the amount of aluminum would not need to be as much as I though when I started this thread.

Worst case scenario I just use a M60L variant. Makes sense to have long runtime anyway.


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## Moddoo (Jan 11, 2009)

Is there a source for the SF bezel that you are planning to use?
I don't have any SF lights... yet

I would need to find out the thread spec. to get a die to match.

The model with the 18650 in front does not really feel front heavy, it's all in the ergonomics and layout. With the cell in the back, 2 modules in front make a nice balance.

The model with the single module, and remote battery, it's about as light as my petzl tikka.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 11, 2009)

I bought a couple SF spares last year when they were more common. Solarforce bezels are interchangable with SF, a good price, and easy to get. Solarforce would be a nice bezel for this project if you have no SF bezel.

Single model with remote battery pack would be good. Single model with 2 18650's or 3 primaries in the back would be great.


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## Moddoo (Jan 11, 2009)

This might work?
https://www.lighthound.com/Solarfor...No-Teeth--Black-Type-2-Anodized_p_6-2631.html

too bad it's out of stock right now.

It looks like many Surefire lights use the same interchangeable head design.

I'll look into it some more and order something up.

However, I believe that the design of those head/bezels will not work very well with a headlamp.
I am thinking that you could use your own drop in, lens, and retainer ring.

But for the lightest, most efficient build, that type of head isn't optimal.

I will get a hold of one and give it a try though.

EDIT, any chance the head from a PL1 from Shiningbeam would work?
I have one of those.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 11, 2009)

How about a M60LLWF aka low low warm tint flood...... It would have good runtime, tint and flood.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 11, 2009)

:twothumbs That would be pretty sweet!


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## PCC (Jan 11, 2009)

How about this:
https://www.lighthound.com/Solarfor...hlight-modes-Lantern-and-Headlamp_p_1620.html


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## vtunderground (Jan 11, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> As for heatsinking Gene has publicly stated the Al bezel alone is sufficient to run the M60 in a Nitroln body...



That surprises me, especially since the current Malkoff drop-ins have a sticker that comes between the module and the aluminum bezel (and without the sticker, there is minimal contact between the drop-in and the metal sides of the bezel anyways)


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 11, 2009)

Close to it. 

I think those are SF E series clones.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 11, 2009)

vtunderground said:


> That surprises me, especially since the current Malkoff drop-ins have a sticker that comes between the module and the aluminum bezel (and without the sticker, there is minimal contact between the drop-in and the metal sides of the bezel anyways)


 

I agree with you but that's what the man said. 
Maybe he meant it's OK in short bursts but he didn't say anything about limiting the runtime.


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## Moddoo (Jan 11, 2009)

FYI- I cannot comment on the performance of said components on a handheld flashlight.
They may work well.
I am not bashing any product.

IMO those heads/bezels might not be the best choice in a head lamp.

My goal is to have a hands free light that will take p60 module(s) and run through 2x18650s with no heat problems.

I hope to have something presentable in the next couple of weeks.

I know how critical you all can (and should) be.
I am very particular myself.
cheers:buddies:


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## NoFair (Jan 12, 2009)

There are a few people selling bezels in the marketplace at the moment:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=187184

Any aluminum SF C/G/P series bezel should do fine.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 12, 2009)

Moddoo said:


> FYI- I cannot comment on the performance of said components on a handheld flashlight.
> They may work well.
> I am not bashing any product.
> 
> ...



I will be waiting with the money!


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 13, 2009)




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## Moddoo (Jan 13, 2009)

I got a decent quote on 40 pieces of the first model today.
I will do some more testing this week.
I have some stock coming in tomorrow to cut a prototype of the latest design.
I hope to place the order next week.
The plan right now is to provide everything except for the drop in, wiring and battery.
I am looking at the flashlightlens.com lenses right now.
any objections?

BTW,
The Malkoff p60 drop-ins have a different overall shape than nearly everyone else.
I may need to get a hold of a few parts from different manufacturers in order to be sure that most will fit.

I might have to ask some members for measurements to avoid spending a few hundred bucks on drop-ins.


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## Moddoo (Jan 13, 2009)

examples of the different p-60 drop ins:
(from the p60 thread)

Malkoff looks like the only oddball shape.

Malkoff:
http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_8&products_id=7

http://www.lumensfactory.com/cart.php?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=7#

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11836

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/blackforce_2034_8070826

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1775



Hard to tell what the wolf eyes looks like
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-139-114-147-6518

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2605

http://www.dereelight.com/module-list.htm


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 13, 2009)

I can't envision your lamp at this point. As such I am not sure right now why you are looking at lenses. flashlightlens.com is a good place to get them however. How does the drop-in get in and out? Are you planning on spending the money to design and fabricate a special custom bezel? I'd rather save my money and use what I have already, there are several makers out there currently. So no wiring probably means no battery pack or switch either. I have to figure out a battery pack..............

Bummer, I was hoping for the whole package minus Malkoff, cells, and bezel.

I am sorry but so far it sounds like I need to keep looking.  Maybe a sketch or pic of a drawing will help me understand better.

The Malkoff is a different length only and it uses the body for negative contact instead of using a spring. The length of the Malkoff is the same length of a traditional drop-in once it has been squeezed or compressed inside a flashlight by the bezel.
A Malkoff is better for heat transfer and that's just one of the reasons I prefer it. The biggest reason though is sheer dependability, something I need if it's strapped to my head as a primary light source. I also know the Malkoff's are regulated well enough to have very clear expectations of runtime.


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## Moddoo (Jan 13, 2009)

HAHA
don't give up just yet.

I have bigger plans than just a DIY body.

But, that will be the foundation for the rest of the project.

This will evolve into a complete light.

I will have something to look at soon.

It will make more sense when you see it.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 13, 2009)

:bow: I await your wonder! :twothumbs


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## NoFair (Jan 14, 2009)

The LumensFactory drop ins also use the body for negative contact and not the spring. 

This is a way better solution than depending on a spring for heat transfer.

Looking forward to seeing the protos

Sverre


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## Moddoo (Jan 14, 2009)

The body of this light will have direct contact with the drop-in.

This is why I need to confirm some dimensions of different brands of drop-ins.


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## Moddoo (Jan 14, 2009)

>>>>>>>>>moved dimension request to LED flashlights for more exposure


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## Moddoo (Jan 14, 2009)

I cut my latest prototype today.
I ran an R2 at 1.2A - 1.3A for 1.5 hours.

Very happy with the thermal performance.

Ambient temp. 65*F

on the desk in still room: after 5 min - 90*F, after 30 min - 100*F, temp no longer rising.

turned on 6" fan in room, 3 feet away, not directly facing the light: after 5 min - 80*F
after 30 min - 80*F

I need to order some MC-Es...


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 14, 2009)

Very nice heatsinking! I can't wait for images! :thumbsup:


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## ahorton (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah come on! I want to see pictures. I've been reading patiently for a little while now but I want to see this thing.

How much was 'a decent quote on 40 pieces'? If it comes out nice I might be in the market for a few.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 18, 2009)




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## Moddoo (Jan 18, 2009)

Pics will come soon.

I want to be sure the first impression is a good one.

I wore it on my head for a while this weekend and am happy with the weight and feel of it.

I made a couple 18650 battery holders/packs, but haven't had the time to wire them up yet.
I think they will work well though.

I will be swapping some info with Malkoff when he returns from the show, to make sure that his parts will fit well.

I am hoping to take this prototype out snowboarding next weekend for some action testing.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 18, 2009)

:thumbsup:

That's great news! Thank you sir.


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## gillestugan (Jan 19, 2009)

This is a really good idea. If it is tiltable it will surely be popular among bikers as well, used as a helmet lamp. Especially with a good narrow dropin.
Will be very nice to see the pictures.


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## leukos (Jan 19, 2009)

subscribed with interest


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## mdocod (Jan 19, 2009)

Great minds think alike:

I had this pipe dream (similar anyways) back in early 07, here's the thread I started to share the concept:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/152022


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 19, 2009)

Cool!


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## Blindasabat (Jan 19, 2009)

Great idea!
I have been thinking about a (bike-specific) E-series headlight very similar to this - just because I have lots of great E-series bezels already. There are enough E-series bezels available to get anything you want, including the spot beam I need from the new KX2 bezels. And they are small diameter but still well heat sinked. 
I do think the bike helmet (and caving) market would be huge for this too. Firm angle retention is important there. My helmet light is on-the-fly angle adjustable via very firm detents so it stays in place until I want to change it (unless I crash on my head!).

Some small fins on the mount will do wonders to help keep the drop-in cool if you can come up with a design with lots of contact to all the P60 drop-ins out there. Can't wait to see pictures.


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## Moddoo (Jan 19, 2009)

mdocod, cool, did you ever put anything together?

I'll bet a lot of guys have thought of and built lights like this.
It will be cool to have one with an easy change P60.

ahortons headlamp is really cool.

blindasabat, I am not familiar with the E-series lights. but I will look into that.

It is tiltable.

I went on a long walk and run tonight. 
The light worked great. I found a lot of critters in the woods.
It felt nice and stable while running.
Those DX reflectors have a nice throw and decent spill, when not shrouded with a big tactical bezel.
I know they are not the best, but that's what I have to play with right now.
I'll get a hold of one of the Malkoffs soon, but which one?

I am ordering a Petzl Adapt kit tonight. 





That might be the strap to go with for this light.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 19, 2009)

Go with an M60W if you want high brightness.

If you want better runtime giving the light lots more utility go for the M60WL. :twothumbs


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## Moddoo (Jan 25, 2009)

Just a small update.
I spoke with Malkoff, I will be ordering a M60F today.
The flood sounds like a useful beam for a headlamp.
Very nice guy BTW.
The only way to be sure of a good fit is to have the product in my hands.

I have been using a prototype this weekend, for fun, and for working under the truck. 
It's nice to have a good bright light on your head when working in tight places, even in the daytime.

I received my Petzl Adapt Tika Kit. It is a nice headband. I will work on some brackets this week.

I'll start my own thread with pics when I have something to show you guys.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 26, 2009)

:twothumbs


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 29, 2009)




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## Moddoo (Jan 29, 2009)

I showed the headlamp to a few camping friends last night.
They liked the look and feel of it.
They were also amazed when it blew away a C2 that they thought was "really bright" 
I told them where to find Malkoff.
The surefires are nice lights though. 
Lately I have been using the headlamp with 1x18650 on the back of the strap. It is a nice balance. I have a couple of battery holder ideas, and somebody I know is also working on producing some soon.
I'll have lenses and o-rings today, and hopefully my M60F tomorrow.
I have a P7 coming from China... someday...
I will be snowboarding on Saturday, and can try it out that night on the slopes.

:thumbsup:


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## DaFABRICATA (Jan 29, 2009)

We need pics!!!

All your info and sharing is great!

But its like the girl that gets fake boobs, talks about them non-stop, but won't let you see or touch them!!!

Pictures I tell you...We need pics!!!

(Of either one would work for me)..:huh:


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## Moddoo (Jan 29, 2009)

I fully understand your desire for pics.
I appreciate the interest.
This is only 1 of 2 projects that I am working on, in addition to quite a bit of overtime working for the man.

FYI, it's just another light. It's not Ti, it won't fold your clothes.
The cool thing is, it's a headlamp that will take most any P-60.
So the beauty is in the versatility.

I need to spend a few more hours in the shop after I receive my M60f.
I'll try not to keep you waiting too much longer.

I got my lens and o-ring installed tonight.
Very impressed with that glass. It's friggen invisible.


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## steveG (Jan 30, 2009)

Moddoo said:


> it won't fold your clothes



What!? You just lost a customer. Ha!

I'm looking forward to the end product as well! And pics... hahaha!


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## RGB_LED (Jan 31, 2009)

Moddoo, very cool concept... I'm also interested in seeing pics of the final product as well as beamshots. 

As a mountain-biker, I have found that my 3xSSC P4 light gives a lot of great light up close for twisty single-track but, on longer, faster sections, I tend to outrun my lights. To make up for it, I have mounted 2xQ5 lights on my handlebars but they don't throw as far due to the poor reflector design, I have also mounted a CL1H w/ M60 on my bars but that also doesn't quite do it. 2xP60 mounts with R2's may just do the trick.

Looking forward to seeing more...


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 31, 2009)

I am really looking forward to seeing your creation. 

It's going to be great to have a Malkoff capable headlamp!


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## Woods Walker (Jan 31, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> I am really looking forward to seeing your creation.
> 
> It's going to be great to have a Malkoff capable headlamp!


 
Me too. M60LL with flood and warm tint. 8 hours of regulated runtime with a great flood plus warn tint at maybe 60ish lumens if the Q3 (?) warm LED is say 20 lumens less than the standard Q5 Cree in a low low output drop-in. But this is guess work. Best part is someone could add a M60 or M60L for greater Lumens and throw if needed. Then the M60 drop-in could be returned to the Surefire host. Seems just too much of a dream.


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## Moddoo (Feb 5, 2009)

Hey guys
I got my M60F. very nice unit. Beam is great for a headlamp.
Good news, it fits.
I also got a 6P to compare dimensions with.
I was unable to try the headlamp on the slopes. The chairlift near the dark runs was not working.

Not much else to report now. 

Hope to have more soon.


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## RGB_LED (Feb 6, 2009)

Sounds like your proof of concept is coming along nicely... Any pics of the setup?


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## Blindasabat (Feb 8, 2009)

If this fits any 6P compatible bezel, then will it support a KL3? :devil:

C'mon! snap us a picture!


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## PhantomPhoton (Feb 8, 2009)

I'd love to be able to use a malkoff on a headlame, especially an MC-E warm.


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## Moddoo (Feb 9, 2009)

OK OK

I have been trying to get a complete light for you guys to see.
There will be some pics of the prototype tonight.
I wanted to wait until I was done with the brackets, battery holder, etc.
but that will take a little longer.

Give me about 12 hours...


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## Moddoo (Feb 9, 2009)

long day,:duh2:
no time tonight.:shakehead
hopefully tomorrow.
:sleepy:


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 11, 2009)




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## Moddoo (Feb 11, 2009)

Here

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/222588


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## Moka (Feb 13, 2009)

OH MY GOD!!!! 

I'm not sure whether I want that or the Saint??

Thats is just plain AWESOME...

Gratz on the great design... and thanks for the pics =D


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