# For the outdoors: SAK or Multitool?



## dandruff (Oct 27, 2005)

are multitools (eg swisstool) used for the general outdoors/camping etc?

or are they really more suited to fixing the kitchen sink?

how useful are the pliers over the nice extras u get in a full SAK (pliers vs magnifying glass, toothpick, tweezers etc)?


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## RA40 (Oct 27, 2005)

My preference are the multi's like the original Leatherman. Having some of the larger accessories has saved me many times. The SAK's are useful in their own and I have a import copy of the Swiss Champ. I'll reach for a multi first though.


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## SJACKAL (Oct 27, 2005)

Carry both and get everything?

If you carry other gear like electronic stuff, or if you drive a vehicle or even a bicycle, a multitool is probably better for those repairs and tweaking, etc, with all their versatile bits. I always prefer a multi-tool anyday, especially in a urban setting. Having a set of pliers is like having a set of strong steel fingers. Don't forget it cuts wire and bends metal too when your bare fingers can never do it without risking cuts and injuries. They often comes with a file which SAK lacks, are usually lockable as compared to SAKs where not all models are lockable. Their locks are often better than SAKs too. Imagine you have to unscrew something and later wench it back, with a SAK its as good as none.

Downside is that they are often heavy and meant more for the belt carry.

Even out in the real wild, a multitool is still better though its good to carry both, tool on the belt and a lighter SAK in the pocket or on the neck lanyard.

I guess I am just more of a multitool guy than a SAK, though I love SAKs too. I have the SAK Hunter and I think its good with one big knife and one smaller curved serated knife. Lockable too.

Gonna get a Swisstool or a Charge XTi soon.


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## AJ_Dual (Oct 27, 2005)

If I had to choose only one, I would go for the multi-tool first (I carry a Leatherman Wave), over a more traditional SAK.

In this day and age, when camping, outdoors etc, you're more likely to be turning your knife/tools on your own gear to fix and adjust things, than you are on "the wild". And then for "taming the jungle", there's usually better tools, camp shovel, pack saw, a hatchet etc. that are better than anything you can carry in your pocket.

However, most of us here love our gear, and are always looking for excuses to get more, and would ultimately advocate carrying BOTH! 

The main downside from the blade standpoint of Multi-tools is they often have the blade fixed into one of the handles at a funny angle, or a weird offset all the way to one side of the tool selection near the edge. Compared to a dedicated knife, which is proportionally not as thick to grip, and has the blade aligned better with the centerline. (Although the monster "kitchen skink" SAK's have the exact same problem as multi-tools.), so for fine cutting or carving/whittling, a SAK or other more "dedicated knife" is better than most any multi-tool IMO.

Frankly, I could almost justify carrying everything below all at once, were I not afraid of looking like a geek or a "nut": (And this is just knives and tools)

- TWO multi-tools, so I can use the pliers and other tools in opposition like you would on bolts/screws. Also to maximize the variety of tools usually not available on any one model alone. (What good is the pliers on a rusty nut if you don't have a screwdriver or second pliers for the bolt?)

- "Super knife", This is the utility razor type knife with replaceable drywall blades for when a razor is better than a thicker knife. What makes it "super" is that it folds and looks like a pocket knife. Good for careful cutting, peeling, or cutting lots of cardboard, where you don't want to dull a nicer knife you spent time sharpening.

- A large "tactical folder" for, well, umm... I guess things and situations that are "tactical".  Or for when you just need a bigger blade.

- A medium/small SAK, Case, Buck, or other "regular" medium pocket knife for whittling, or general utility when all the other blades just don't seem "right" for the task.

- A small "gentleman's knife" like the Kershaw Chive, one of the cuter looking Spyderco's, or the ubiquitous mini-SAK, for use around "Sheeple" (Overly nervous hyper-PC types who treat any blade you've got on you like it's a mugger's switchblade, etc.) Sometimes the Multi-tool fits the bill with these people, because their addled brains are able to view it as a "tool" first, because of the pliers etc.

- A keychain blade of some kind, so you always have something with you at all times. Like the mini-SAK, one of the tiny Spyderco's, or maybe the Gerber "Ridge". (Open faced knock-off of the mini-CKRT K.I.S.S.) Maybe a Leatherman Micra.

- For true woods outings, I'd wear a larger sheath knife as well. For campground camping, car-camping, etc., on "improved campsites" with pre-made fire pits and outhouses, I wouldn't bother.

Of course, I wouldn't carry all that, even though I can justify each of them in my own mind. I might carry all that if I could do so without getting "caught", in this case meaning being derided as "Batman" or "MacGyver" by my family and friends.  

In reality, I carry a mix of the following, depending on the day and the situation. The Leatherman Wave as my multi-tool. An Emerson/Benchmade CQC-7 as my "large tactical folder", and as just the "big blade" for cutting "big stuff". And a Gerber Ridge or a Kershaw Chive as the "gentleman's knife" or "small PC blade". I bring the folding replaceable utility razor "Super Knife" along when I think I'll be doing some kind of work, or a lot of box cutting I don't want to dull my other blades with.

Essentially different situations require different tools, that's why there's so many to choose from!


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## greenLED (Oct 27, 2005)

I was a SAK user for the longest time, but I now carry my Leatherman Wave. It's a little heavier, but it has all the stuff that I need while I'm outdoors (plus pliers, which the SAK doesn't have). Multitools are more versatile.

Have you looked at the Leatherman "Juice" models? They're a bit smaller than the full-size ones, and some (if not all) are designed with outdoor use in mind.


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## Makarov (Oct 27, 2005)

I've carried a pocketknife since I was 6. Bought my first SAK when I was 17, a Wenger solider. Nice knife, real simple and handy. Carried it 24-7 until I bought my first Leatherman in -94 when I was serving in the army. Never looked back.

My Wenger is in a drawer on in the kitchen, were it (from time to time) is used to open tin-cans(IMHO the tin-can opener on the Leatherman(s) suck in comparison to the SAK's), my Leatherman dujour(Charge TI) is on my belt 24-7(except when I'm wearing a suit, then it's in the innerpocket  )

I use my Leatherman for everything, the pliers are very useful as SJACKAL says.
When I moved into my my previous apartment my tools were all packed down in crates, so I used my Leatherman for all kinds of stuff, it saved my a lot of trouble. 
The first tour I served in Lebanon, actually on the last day, we were waiting for the bus that was taking us to the airport, a bee climbed down into my soda-can when I was in the toilet. Next sip of the can and the bee was in my mouth, stinging me in the palate. I got kinda worried and thought that I might be hospitalized and miss my flight... :sweat:
One of the guys in my squad used my Leatherman and a standard MM to find and remove the sting from the bee, I didn't get any swelling and did make it home to my girlfriend


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## paulr (Oct 27, 2005)

I've gone through this dilemma every few years for the past couple decades. I keep coming back to the SAK. My favorite model is the Explorer though I have several other models as well. I haven't felt a need for a multi-tool pliers that often, especially outdoors. If I want pliers, then instead of two multi-tools I'd rather have a SAK and a small Vise-Grips. 

For outdoors I'd go for the larger SAK's with the locking blades. I don't have one of those at the moment, but one of these days.


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## Screehopper (Oct 27, 2005)

I was also a SAK user in the past until Leatherman came around. I have long switched to using a multitool, the Leatherman in my case.

The pliers and screwdriver being the most useful.
I use a dedicated folder for cutting things.


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## Brangdon (Oct 31, 2005)

I find the pliers most useful as tongs, for holding things you don't want to touch with your hands. For example, when I'm camping I do a little cooking on an Esbit stove and I sometimes use the pliers to pick the hot stove up. You can also use it on spikey things like brambles, or well, anything really.

Pliers are also good for bending and cutting wire, and I carry large paperclips for that reason. You can improvise probes and fastenings and supports etc. Even quite small pliers can do this. If you want to use them as a kind of spanner, on a nut, you really need one of the bigger multi-tools that will let you apply a bit of welly. There are jobs I wouldn't want to tackle with one of the Juice range, for example.

I carry a very small swiss army knife as well. It's a Vic Rambler, which has tweezers and toothpick. I reckon tiny SAK with large multi-tool is the way to go.

Obviously a lot depends on specific models and brands. For example, I've never seen a Vic knife with a corkscrew that has an assist, like the Leatherman Juice has.


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## greenLED (Oct 31, 2005)

Makarov said:


> IMHO the tin-can opener on the Leatherman(s) suck in comparison to the SAK's



I think that's the only thing I'd change on my Leatherman Wave.


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## Makarov (Oct 31, 2005)

greenLED said:


> I think that's the only thing I'd change on my Leatherman Wave.


Me too, I just wish someone would set up shop and start modding Leathermans...

[size=+2]HINT HINT[/size] :naughty:


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## chmsam (Nov 2, 2005)

This is CPF, after all, right? Buy both and carry both. Choices like this are why Nite-Ize, Maxpedition, Rip-offs, et al. do such a good business. Gotta carry more than one plus the light(s).

Outdoors or indoors, I'm never far away from an SAK and a Leatherman tool. They overlap so much I couldn't go without one of each. They fill in the gaps and the (very few) failings each one has. I've opened many a can with a SAK 'cause we had crappy electric can openers for so many years and cut a ton of wire and zip ties with my Leatherman Pulse. 

Btw, my preference for pliers on a multitool was the one on an older SOG Paratool I had right up until the young'uns "borrowed" it -- I suppose it's still within only a couple of miles of the house, but the real question is, under how many feet of mud? There's a lot of that going around, isn't there?

Go to the websites of the manufacturer(s) and see which items have the features you want. I'd be willing to bet that the end of your search lies in one of each. Thankfully that doesn't usually put too large a dent in the wallet.


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## Geddinight (Nov 2, 2005)

I used to camp all the time. I always had a SAK with me. Multi-tools were not really in the picture in my early years. I found the swiss tool a few years ago. 
I opened the package in the parkinglot, checked it out, and showed it to my son, who had come with me that day. I was so impressed, I went back in the store and bought two more. One for my son and one for work. For outdoors and camping they are fantastic. 
Get one of each. If pressed to stay with the question at hand, I vote for the multi-tool.


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## InTheDark (Nov 2, 2005)

For general outdoors/camping use, I'd definitely choose the multi tool over the SAK. For me, the advantage of the pliers far outweigh the disadvantage of size and weight. A pliers can be used to hold, tighten, twist, crimp, cut (the wire cutters), bend, etc. It is by far the most used feature of my multi-tool. In fact, before multitools were invented, I would carry a small pair of pliers along with a swiss army knife. The main reason they're so useful is because, you just can't find an alternative to pliers in the field. It's easy to find a flat piece of metal or coin to use as a temporary screwdriver, or even sharpen something to punch a hole, but to grip a nut or bend wire or grab a pot? You'd be hard pressed to find anything laying around that can do that. Even though most of the stuff I use it for is small light duty camping related items, but it's still a job that only pliers can do.

In terms of other tools (knife, file, can opener, screwdrivers, etc) I would say they both perform similarly, not particularly great, but adequate. If you really use a blade a lot, buy a good knife. If need to open a lot of cans, bring along a dedicated can opener. A SAK or Multitool aren't the ideal tools for every situation, but they just provide an adequate solution for most of them. 

So far my favorite is still the original SOG paratool. I keep looking for an excuse to buy a replacement multi tool, and have tried or handled most every multitool out on the market, but the main reason I stick with the paratool is because it one of the smallest ones out there, plus you can customize which blades you have on there. I had really high expectations from some of the new leathermans, but it seems like they get bigger and heavier every year, without adding anything really useful. If you start shopping for one, think very carefully about what you will actually use it for. Do you really need a serrated AND straight blade? Or any of the half a dozen different types of specialty blades on these things? How often will you actually use a saw? What about 10 different sizes of screwdrivers, or wirestrippers or scissors or corkscrew or nail file or eyebrow plucker, etc..? Even though you may think you may be getting more features for your money, what you're really carrying around is dead weight. Think of it this way, if you had to carry all these tools individually, which ones would you really carry on a daily basis?

Honestly, I might be the only person who doesn't like the new locking feature on all the new tools, seems like added weight, cost, and complexity. I think companies are trying too hard to add new features on tools that don't really need them. Abouth the only thing I really miss about the SAK is the tweezers. I wish someone would come up with a solution to add one to a multitool, because the pliers just aren't good at getting splinters out.


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## Lurker (Nov 3, 2005)

I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. Multitools take the SAK concept to the next level with more useful tools and by adding a very powerful and versatile tool: the needle nose pliers. They also take the concept to a heavier and bulkier package and usually more expensive, too. If I were getting only one, I would go for a multitool, primarily because they will be more useful in fixing your other gear. For general outdoors/camping use, people are very reliant on a few pieces of technology: backpack, stove, boots, etc. There have been many times when making minor repairs or adjustments to these things in the backcountry has been helped by the pliers or other nice tool features of a multitool. In other words, a multitool can do almost anything a SAK can do, but more.

One thing I like to do is keep the smallest swiss army knife (Victorinox Classic SD) handy along with a multi-tool. This adds very little bulk, weight or cost to the equation, but you get some added versatility with the delicate knife blade, tweezers, screwdriver, tiny scissors, etc. They compliment each other very nicely and I find myself using the Classic quite a bit.

But when it comes to the weight you have to carry with you, everyone draws the line a little differently.


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## Lightraven (Nov 3, 2005)

I used a Leatherman pliers to pull out cactus needles that had impaled my hand. I have also used them to lock/unlock the hubs on 4X4 sport utility vehicles when they were too tight to turn by hand. I even used them to grab and kill fleas.

I think pliers are possibly the most useful tool to have. I almost never use the other tools on my multi tool or Swiss Army Knife.


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## dg (Nov 3, 2005)

Read this story and then decide!

http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200409/aron_ralston_1.html


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## Deanster (Nov 3, 2005)

One more for the multitool - the Swiss Army knife concept is (IMHO) to have several miniaturized tools in a mid-size package, with none of them winners in their category. 

The Leatherman concept is to have a mix of full-size and mid-size tools in a somewhat larger package. While the multi-tool is still laden with compromises, nearly every tool (with the exception of the can-opener, which isn't well conceived vs. the SAK vesion), is a quite functional replacement for a full-size version. They're not perfect by a long shot, but if you really need to do a job that can be done with a real phillips screwdriver, pliers, etc., you can probably do it with a Multi-tool. 

SAK tools are really for very light use - they're just not built for 'real' jobs, once again, IMHO.


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## wquiles (Nov 3, 2005)

Oh my God - that was an amazing story. I simply don't think what I would do in a situation as that - my mind can't even begin to comprehend what Aron went through :wow: 

Thanks for sharing this inspiring story - I don't think I will ever forget it ...

Will


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## paulr (Nov 3, 2005)

That Ralston guy took a hell of a beating on Equipped to Survive:

http://equipped.org/ralston_threatens_ets.htm


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## wquiles (Nov 3, 2005)

True. However, whether he was lacking common sense or not, he survived, which is why I consider it amazing, even if he lost an arm while doing it.

Like Mr. Doug Ritter said, hopefully this would serve as a lesson to others to be better prepared.

Will


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## Deanster (Nov 4, 2005)

I saw Ralston on Letterman, and he seemed like an amazing guy - not at all the reckless and irresponsible type. I came away pretty convinced that he made a set of thoughtful choices about what he was doing, accepted the risks, and took full responsibility for getting himself out (with the help of a multitool) when he got into trouble. I don't think the ETS crowd is wrong - Ralston didn't need to end up where he did, but once there, he showed amazing fortitude in solving his problem. 

I used to joke about being willing to chew off my arm to get out of a meeting. Since Ralston's story came out, I don't do that anymore.


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## SJACKAL (Nov 5, 2005)

Agree with Deanster

I did just a brief read, but it seems that Ralston been through much and I guess nobody in his position would enjoy having another person whom wasn't in his ordeal commenting on his mistakes even though Ritter said nothing wrong.

I would think that Ralston is a great survivalist in his own right. Everyone makes mistakes or misses sometime and no one is invulenrable to unfortunate events, either greater or lesser degree.


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## Blackbeagle (Nov 6, 2005)

This argument occurs every couple of years. Way back when it was the heavy Bowie knife. After, there were some who favored and pushed hatchets. Later, the late great was the Boy Scouts Knife. (After all, who fights bears and other wild animals anymore?) The late 60's, early 70's brought us the seriously misguided double edge, serrated dagger "survival knives". (Remember them?) Remember the heavy folders like the Buck 110 of the late 70's? Then the hollow-handle survival knives? Then the SAK's, the multi-tools... There is NO single one-size-fits-all choice! Never has been, isn't now, won't ever be.

Ask the proper questions: where are you going, what are you doing, what are your risks, what needs repair, what help/rescue can you expect... what is your worst case scenario?

If it is a short hike on a heavily used path an SAK would be fine. If you may need to maintain equipment (mountain bike, skis, hunting equipment...) a multi-tool would be necessity. If you are going cross country, flying a plane, going kayaking deep into an area, you really need a heavy sheath knife.

Tailor your equipment to your expected needs. Carry multiple items. Picking out splinters is NOT the forte of a lawn mower blade heavy sheath knife. Trying to chop enough wood to keep a fire going in snowy/rainy conditions is NOT POSSIBLE with an SAK. If you need pliers, you NEED pliers...


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## Kris (Nov 6, 2005)

I have owned an Original Swiss Tool for years and it's the best multi-tool I have ever owned.

http://www.victorinox.com/newsite/en/produkte/index.htm


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## Brangdon (Nov 6, 2005)

Deanster said:


> The Leatherman concept is to have a mix of full-size and mid-size tools in a somewhat larger package.


Leatherman have several ranges. The bigger ones are like that, but the Juice range isn't what I'd call "full-sized" and I wouldn't use its pliers on a tough job through choice. And they have even smaller key-ring sized multitools too.


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## Gone Jeepin (Nov 8, 2005)

The multi vs SAK issue is debated every now and then. IMHO the SAK is for the user that needs a knife with tools more than pliers and the multi is for the plier with tools user that needs an added blade. I prefer the Swisstool models for multis and have many SAK models. I EDC a Swisstool Spirit and have a Swisstool X in my EDC bag along with a Vic Soldier SAK. I would be happy with the Swisstool X in the woods and would add a small SAK for toothpick, tweezers and straight blade. On the other hand, I have used only the Vic Huntsmen in the woods many times with no issues. The only way to really know is to try for yourself. Take one or the other on your next trip and see how it works for you.


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## paulr (Nov 8, 2005)

I just haven't seen a multi-tool as that good a substitute for a real pliers (eg. vise-grip). I wish they'd make vise-grips from titanium, though that would probably cost a bundle.


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## Deanster (Nov 8, 2005)

Brangdon - you are of course correct about the various Leatherman ranges - I actually EDC a Juice S2, which is very lightweight and unsuitable for heavy work of nearly any kind, but I elected brevity over comprehensiveness (rare for me)...


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## pedalinbob (Nov 9, 2005)

We were camping a couple of years ago--stayed in a minicabin. The door was goofed up, so I went to my car, and grabbed a cheapie gift multi tool I keep in the glovebox. It has a bunch of tools, including a "hammer head". The hammer worked well to pound part of the frame back into alignment.

It wasn't perfect, but worked very well for the tasks.

Since then, I have the Swisstool, which I think I could do almost anything with. The tools lock, and the darn thing is tough.

But I still love the SAKs, and would guess one of the larger models would be fine for most issues.

If possible, I would have both.

Bob


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