# AW vs Orbtronic vs KeepPower 18650



## ForrestChump (Jun 1, 2015)

Which 18650 do you prefer and why?


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## ForrestChump (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

Thought this poll would take off like a rocket ship! Maybe I was too optimistic... Im absolutely a research junky, but the 18650 world is new to me and seems to have changed recently with the addition of new quality brands. I figured this would be the most efficient way to see the up to the minute consensus on peoples preferred 18650, and all the information that goes along with it. 

I need data STAT! Cast your vote and tell us why!

MUCH APPRECIATED!

- Forrest


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## ChrisGarrett (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

I like AW, but their cells are a bit on the spendy side. Assuming that the three above are using the same bare cell and using the same Seiko PCB, I'm going with the cheapest cost to me.

Right now, that's Orbtronic and since they're here in Florida, I'm helping another Floridian out.

That being said, I generally fly naked, so I don't have any of the above.

Chris


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## ForrestChump (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

:hahaha:



ChrisGarrett said:


> I like AW, but their cells are a bit on the spendy side. Assuming that the three above are using the same bare cell and using the same Seiko PCB, I'm going with the cheapest cost to me.
> 
> Right now, that's Orbtronic and since they're here in Florida, I'm helping another Floridian out.
> 
> ...


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## Firsh (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

After reading for days here, I decided to get KeepPower 3400mAh because I find that it's a solid manufacturer with good quality products. It has a nice price point, while AW has twice the cost in the shop I'll buy from. I saw that in this capacity, AW batteries do exist but they aren't very reviewed or not as readily available for affordable prices. This comparison by HKJ helped me a lot: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html


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## ForrestChump (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



Firsh said:


> After reading for days here, I decided to get KeepPower 3400mAh because I find that it's a solid manufacturer with good quality products. It has a nice price point, while AW has twice the cost in the shop I'll buy from. I saw that in this capacity, AW batteries do exist but they aren't very reviewed or not as readily available for affordable prices. This comparison by HKJ helped me a lot: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary UK.html



:welcome:

I am learning fast that HKJ is the Battery / Charger guru. Lots of good stuff over there. Thanks for the post and welcome to CPF!


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## markr6 (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

I've generally been going with naked Panasonic NCR18650B, but recently started with the *Keeppower *cells. Great value! Both can be had for about $5 or $6.

KeepPower IMR 18650 2500mAh - 20A constant
KeepPower IMR 18650 3200mAh - 10A constant

I believe the IMR 18650 3200mAh is an NCR18650BD inside. Losing 200mAh compared to the NCR18650B but gaining a good 3A in constant discharge is worth it IMO if you start getting into more demanding lights.


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## magellan (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

"That being said, I generally fly naked, so I don't have any of the above."

Isn't that illegal?


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## ForrestChump (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

We got a couple votes now.... keep em coming!


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## NoNotAgain (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

The Nitecore lights that I own that require button topped batteries with protection have been getting Keeppower 3400 batteries. My Tiny Monsters require a short cell and the Keeppower 3400's fit the bill.

Recently went back to one of the regular light suppliers for a few items on extra special pricing. Getting Nitecore 3400's for the same price as the Keeppowers.


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## thedoc007 (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

KeepPower has two Ps. They are my choice...their protection circuit has lower internal resistance than some, the circuit doesn't trip as easily as some, and they are often either the cheapest, or close to it. They use the same quality cells as the other brands, and they are an OEM for the protection circuit, rather than paying another company to manufacture it. So they obviously know to do it properly, and quality control is in-house. Keeppower also offers a wide variety of cells...tons of different options are available, from high-capacity to ultra-high drain, all at reasonable prices.

While AW has some specific applications (I bought a couple 14500s because other cells were too long, and getting shredded) they are far too expensive to buy routinely. You pay a large premium for essentially the same performance.

I'd be just as happy to buy Orbtronic as KeepPower, but the Orbtronic cells are usually a bit more expensive, with no added benefit for the extra cost.


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## ForrestChump (Jun 1, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



thedoc007 said:


> *KeepPower has two Ps.* They are my choice...their protection circuit has lower internal resistance than some, the circuit doesn't trip as easily as some, and they are often either the cheapest, or close to it. They use the same quality cells as the other brands, and they are an OEM for the protection circuit, rather than paying another company to manufacture it. So they obviously know to do it properly, and quality control is in-house. Keeppower also offers a wide variety of cells...tons of different options are available, from high-capacity to ultra-high drain, all at reasonable prices.
> 
> While AW has some specific applications (I bought a couple 14500s because other cells were too long, and getting shredded) they are far too expensive to buy routinely. You pay a large premium for essentially the same performance.
> 
> I'd be just as happy to buy Orbtronic as KeepPower, but the Orbtronic cells are usually a bit more expensive, with no added benefit for the extra cost.



Good info. Also, it was late and I just kinda accepted the fact that no matter how careful, Id screw up the names one way or another....

Kee*p*Power seems to stay king of the hill, still need more votes to get a good chunk of data.


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## ForrestChump (Jun 2, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

KepPower is @ 56% thus far and seem to always exceed the other 2 brands. Can anyone give a detailed explanation? 

Is it because they are an OEM manufacturer or simply the price?


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## Capolini (Jun 2, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

1.Orbtronic
2.KeepPower
3.AW

You can actually get Four[4] Orbtronic 3400mAh cheaper than Four[4] Keeppower 3400mAh,,,by about $3. I have both and like both but have had Orbtronic much longer[2.5 years] than my Keeppowers [5 months]. Even if they were the same price or Orbtronic a few dollars more I would get Orbtronic because of the consistency and longevity that I have experienced.

BTW You misspelled Keepower[!] in your title... correct is KeepPower!


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## thedoc007 (Jun 2, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

The value is there...given that (just about) every quality protected 3400 uses the same cell, why pay more? KeepPower isn't the final answer, but they are one of the better options.


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## thedoc007 (Jun 2, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



Capolini said:


> You can actually get Four[4] Orbtronic 3400mAh cheaper than Four[4] Keeppower 3400mAh,,,by about $3. I have both and like both but have had Orbtronic much longer[2.5 years] than my Keeppowers [5 months]. Even if they were the same price or Orbtronic a few dollars more I would get Orbtronic because of the consistency and longevity that I have experienced.
> 
> BTW You misspelled Keepower[!] in your title... correct is KeepPower!



You are late to the party...had that one covered.

Where do you find Orbtronics cheaper than $12 each (before discounts)? I'm always looking for good sources...Illumination Supply and Mountain Electronics are my go-to stores, but I buy enough from them already...if there is a cheaper place to get quality cells, I'd like to know about it.

I've had both Keeppowers and Orbtronic cells from almost the moment I joined CPF, and found no real difference between the two.


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## ChrisGarrett (Jun 2, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



ForrestChump said:


> KepPower is @ 56% thus far and seem to always exceed the other 2 brands. Can anyone give a detailed explanation?
> 
> Is it because they are an OEM manufacturer or simply the price?



Keeppower is doing what everybody else selling private label li-ion cells is doing, who don't actually make the cells themselves. <Whew...tongue twister there...> They get the bare cells from the manufacturers, slap on a PCB (that they make, or buy from somebody else,) or not and then shrink wrap that together. Finally, they stick their logo on it.

What Keeppower did and to a lesser degree International Outdoor and Orbtronic, was to challenge the Big Three as I call them: AW, Redilast and CalliesKustom. They didn't necessarily build a better mousetrap, they just sold it for a lot less money.

I'm fairly new here, but when I started we were slobbering over the 3100mAh Panasonic NCR-A and the Big Three were all charging $19-$21 per protected cell and only a little less for the Pannie NCR 2900s. I remember getting my EagleTac 3100s from a Ebay vendor before every other light maker started rebranding and I paid only $24 shipped for the new cells. That's a significant savings over the Big three, IMO.

For a lot of people, the Big Three offer good customer service, use good cells and have built up well regarded reputations, but for people like me, price is a big concern and so the new crop of rebranders, with their lower prices, is enticing to me.

Chris


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## ForrestChump (Jun 2, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

Im crystal on the Panasonics. All cells being equal, I guess for most it boils down to the overall quality of the battery and cost.

*For me it's a question of quality* - although if *18650 A1* is identical to *18650 B2* and *B2* is cheaper - Ill take *B2*.

BUT - If *18650 AX* has a more reliable PCB by 5% then *18650 BX *-and *AX *costs 10% more* - *I'll take* AX.

*Which 18650 XXX would be "best" for my application, overall quality being the biggest contributing factor?

Is quality negligible between the three brands? Is there a "better" 18650 out there?


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## SubLGT (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

This battery tester/reviewer/blogger is not impressed with the latest 18650 from AW:

http://www.mountainprophet.de/2015/03/28/die-neuen-aw-akkus-teil-1-die-roten-imr-von-2015/

http://translate.googleusercontent....-2015/&usg=ALkJrhhhdSb1E_lR_A7lhLxFnOBo1Mdxzw


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## ForrestChump (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

Recanted.


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## thedoc007 (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



ForrestChump said:


> Which 18650 XXX would be "best" for my application, overall quality being the biggest contributing factor?
> 
> Is quality negligible between the three brands? Is there a "better" 18650 out there?



AW just MIGHT have the highest quality...AW Andrew Wan...it is a one-man operation, and I'm sure he is very conscious of quality. Certainly he has a long, excellent track record with CPF members. I don't mind paying a premium for quality...but AW cells are at least 50% more expensive, and often close to double the cost of many other brands. That, to me, reeks of charging for the name, rather than for the quality. After all, the cell is probably 80% of the cost, and the protection circuit itself is a few cents. Paying $10 to have a guy install a circuit worth five cents on a cell that he bought for $8 is not a wise financial decision, in my opinion. (Numbers were provided just as an example...obviously I am not claiming they are perfectly accurate.)

If you are like me, and refuse to pay such a high premium, there are no differences worth worrying about. This assumes "normal" use...obviously if you want the absolute highest trip current, or shortest cell, or lowest internal resistance, or any of many other factors, you could ask about those specific applications. But to the average user, there will be no detectable difference in performance among any of the most common brands. And without accurate data, there is no way to say for sure which cells are most reliable. Anyone who claims otherwise is either privy to data that isn't being shared, or just deluded into thinking their anecdotal experience is meaningful.


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## ForrestChump (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



thedoc007 said:


> And without accurate data, there is no way to say for sure which cells are most reliable. Anyone who claims otherwise is either privy to data that isn't being shared, or just deluded into thinking their anecdotal experience is meaningful.




aaaaaaaaaaaaand Doc just killed my thread with logic and stuff. 



Keep voting anyway!


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## thedoc007 (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



ForrestChump said:


> aaaaaaaaaaaaand Doc just killed my thread with logic and stuff.



Heh, you didn't see me abstaining from the vote. Obviously no one else's experience is representative, but mine HAS to be, right? Right?

Indeed, carry on. While it doesn't prove anything, it is suggestive. And we could be doing worse things than talking about lithium-ion cells. :devil:


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## ForrestChump (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



thedoc007 said:


> Heh, you didn't see me abstaining from the vote. Obviously no one else's experience is representative, but mine HAS to be, right? Right?
> 
> Indeed, carry on. While it doesn't prove anything, it is suggestive. And we could be doing worse things than talking about lithium-ion cells. :devil:



Theres really only one solution.

Buy 100 of each brand and donate them to HKJ.......


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## Woods Walker (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

I voted KeepPower because of the price.


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## HKJ (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

I believe this discussion is a bit silly.
Keeppower is a OEM manufacturer and makes batteries for many brands (This may of may not include Orbtronic). Their production consist of taking the raw cell, add protection, button top and a wrapper. The cell depends on what the customer will pay.
Orbtronic is a reseller that gets cells made with their wrapper somewhere, as far is I know they try to always use quality cells.
AW (Andrew Wan) was one of the first to start reselling LiIon cells and has been known to always use quality cells. With the 2900/3100/3400mAh cells there is not much advantage, because all uses the same cells, but with other cells there can an advantage (Like protected 16340, his was the same size as CR123 cells, not a few mm longer). The biggest problem with AW today is fake cells. According to a dealer AW is a registered trademark to some factory (Not Andrew), this makes it possible to sell genuine AW cells that are not from AW/Andrew and with unknown quality.


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## KeepingItLight (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*



HKJ said:


> Keeppower is a OEM manufacturer and makes batteries for many brands (This may of may not include Orbtronic). Their production consist of taking the raw cell, add protection, button top and a wrapper. The cell depends on what the customer will pay.



Thanks for your expert input. 

How does this impact the batteries that are sold directly to consumers under the Keeppower brand? Does the quality of that cell also "depend on what the customer will pay?"


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## HKJ (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*



KeepingItLight said:


> How does this impact the batteries that are sold directly to consumers under the Keeppower brand? Does the quality of that cell also "depend on what the customer will pay?"



Yes, but here the customer is the shops that sells Keeppower. There was a case some time ago with 14500 batteries. Keeppower has two of them, one DLG(Chinese), the other Sanyo and for same reason they had got the same wrapper (That was an accident according to Keeppower, but the difference was supposed to be very small anyway). Now the Sanyo is marked 840mA and the DLG 800mA to make it easier to see the difference.


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## ForrestChump (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



HKJ said:


> I believe this discussion is a bit silly.
> Keeppower is a OEM manufacturer and makes batteries for many brands (This may of may not include Orbtronic). Their production consist of taking the raw cell, add protection, button top and a wrapper. The cell depends on what the customer will pay.
> Orbtronic is a reseller that gets cells made with their wrapper somewhere, as far is I know they try to always use quality cells.
> AW (Andrew Wan) was one of the first to start reselling LiIon cells and has been known to always use quality cells. With the 2900/3100/3400mAh cells there is not much advantage, because all uses the same cells, but with other cells there can an advantage (Like protected 16340, his was the same size as CR123 cells, not a few mm longer). The biggest problem with AW today is fake cells. According to a dealer AW is a registered trademark to some factory (Not Andrew), this makes it possible to sell genuine AW cells that are not from AW/Andrew and with unknown quality.



I apologize if this is redundant, as you already said many cells are made by KeepPower, _but not all. _

So to be clear, you do not have a preferred 18650 brand, correct?

Thanks again!


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## KeepingItLight (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*



HKJ said:


> Yes, but here the customer is the shops that sells Keeppower. There was a case some time ago with 14500 batteries. Keeppower has two of them, one DLG(Chinese), the other Sanyo and for same reason they had got the same wrapper (That was an accident according to Keeppower, but the difference was supposed to be very small anyway). Now the Sanyo is marked 840mA and the DLG 800mA to make it easier to see the difference.



Uh oh! Hope this doesn't impact their 18650s. I just bought 4 of them (3400 mAh, $10 each) from Illumn (i.e., Illumination Supply). I am new to Li-ion, but I think Illumn is a vendor that has earned respect at CPF. 


Keeppower label is silver. 
Battery wrapper is black.
3.7V 12.58Wh 
Part no.: P1834J 
Ver.: 2015 
Cell and IC made in Japan. Assembled in China.


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## HKJ (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



ForrestChump said:


> So to be clear, it sounds like you do not prefer any one 18650 brand - AW / ORBTRONIC / KeepPower / XXXX Brand...?



Correct, generally I prefer batteries based on Panasonic/Sanyo/LG/Sony/Samsung cells and then buy from somebody I trust can do a decent job with the protection. This can be AW, Orbtronic or Keeppower, but there are many other.


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## HKJ (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*



KeepingItLight said:


> Uh oh! Hope this doesn't impact their 18650s. I just bought 4 of them (3400 mAh, $10 each) from Illumn (i.e., Illumination Supply). I am new to Li-ion, but I think Illumn is a vendor that has earned respect at CPF.



I do not believe you can get anything, but good cells in 3400mAh and I doubt Illumn would order anything but good batteries.


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## KeepingItLight (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*



HKJ said:


> I do not believe you can get anything, but good cells in 3400mAh and I doubt Illumn would order anything but good batteries.



Thanks for the confirmation. To a newbie like me, it is very reassuring. I know just enough to be scared (and careful) with Li-ion. I bought a quality smart-charger that gives accurate voltage readings (Nitecore D4), so I will be checking voltage both before and after charging. 

BTW: Your web site is a fantastic resource!


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## LessDark (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*

I voted Keeppower since I live in Europe and they are the cheapest ones here. 
In fact I just ordered 4 Keeppower 18650 of the new 3500mah cell. 
Have you HKJ any plans on reviewing them?


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## HKJ (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*



LessDark said:


> Have you HKJ any plans on reviewing them?



The 3500mAh cell: yes.
I do not have any plan on Keeppower cells at the current time. If they ship me a batch of cells, I will, of course, review them.
I might also review them, if they do not ship a batch, but I do not have any plans beyond what I have a batteries in queue. I will first plan on more cells when my queue is nearly empty.


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## LessDark (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*

Alright, looking forward to your review 



HKJ said:


> The 3500mAh cell: yes.
> I do not have any plan on Keeppower cells at the current time. If they ship me a batch of cells, I will, of course, review them.
> I might also review them, if they do not ship a batch, but I do not have any plans beyond what I have a batteries in queue. I will first plan on more cells when my queue is nearly empty.


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## Overclocker (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*

yep that new 3500mah cell is interesting! sanyo NCR18650GA. 10A capable. not a wimpy cell like the NCR18650B


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## space-cowboy (Jun 3, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



Capolini said:


> 1.Orbtronic
> 2.KeepPower
> 3.AW
> 
> ...



It has been 20 days since new Orbtronic *3500mAh* 10A 18650 battery is released. With CPF discount code it is pretty sweet deal.

To OP:
KeepPower gets more votes not necessary because it is better cell, but because you have many CPF members outside of US and A  .
It is very hard to get Orbtronic cells in EU


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 3, 2015)

Once again, a 'silly discussion' eventually renders most useful information!

Thanks to HKJ, and others.

Looking closely at the claims for the protection circuit may provide a reason to buy a certain brand. The integrity of the seller is big. Total cost (including the shipping) and proximity of the vendor are major factors.

BlueMax1 talked about KeepPower having good (HKJ) numbers back when the NiteCore TM26 had recently been released. I ordered 4X 3400mAh protected from a Chinese website that was honorable, but made an error shipping. The result was that 2 of the KeepPower batteries will fit in some of my other flashlights, and the other 2 are too big in diameter. And while all 4 of them work as a set in the TM26, I consider that a ding against KeepPower, for me personally.

Having bought AW from Oveready, I've got no complaints, but Orbtronic is the first place I check now-days, followed by illumn, and mtnelectronics.


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## markr6 (Jun 3, 2015)

I've been purchasing unprotected Keeppower IMR 2500 and 3200mAh cells from RTDvapor lately. Great prices and no complaints.


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## ForrestChump (Jun 3, 2015)

:hahaha:



thedoc007 said:


> And without accurate data, there is no way to say for sure which cells are most reliable. Anyone who claims otherwise is either privy to data that isn't being shared, or just deluded into thinking their anecdotal experience is meaningful.






HKJ said:


> I believe this discussion is a bit silly.






HKJ said:


> This can be AW, Orbtronic or Keeppower, but there are many others.






space-cowboy said:


> To OP:
> KeepPower gets more votes not necessary because it is better cell, but because you have many CPF members outside of US and A .
> It is very hard to get Orbtronic cells in EU






KITROBASKIN said:


> Once again, a 'silly discussion' eventually renders most useful information!





Amelia said:


> This should have been one of those "check multiple boxes" style polls.


 
NOT what I was expecting. The poll has been deemed rather useless. It looks like there are a lot of quality cells that are on par without much fluctuation in quality if you stick to the well knowns. I still learned A LOT even though the poll isn't as relevant as I thought. Thanks everyone for contributing, also thanks to HKJ for agreeing to stop by and share your thoughts, not what I expected, but very educational for the novice. I believe this thread thus far has been a success with the information obtained. Im sure it will help a lot of people with different questions. The new guy agonizing over the XXX 18650 VS YYY 18650 can learn a lot here. I did.

:twothumbs


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## Amelia (Jun 4, 2015)

I've bought and used all 3 brands. I no longer buy AW because of the price and the chance of getting AW counterfeits. Keeppower and Orbtronic cells seem like they're both great quality, I've never had a problem with either brand, so I can't say that one is clearly superior to the other. I have found that it's a little easier for me to buy Orbtronic cells lately, so that's how I voted. Doesn't mean I dislike Keeppower, in fact Keeppower is my favorite source for 16650 cells. This should have been one of those "check multiple boxes" style polls.


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## ForrestChump (Jun 4, 2015)

Amelia said:


> I've bought and used all 3 brands. I no longer buy AW because of the price and the chance of getting AW counterfeits. Keeppower and Orbtronic cells seem like they're both great quality, I've never had a problem with either brand, so I can't say that one is clearly superior to the other. I have found that it's a little easier for me to buy Orbtronic cells lately, so that's how I voted. Doesn't mean I dislike Keeppower, in fact Keeppower is my favorite source for 16650 cells. *This should have been one of those "check multiple boxes" style polls.*




"Mistakes are another opportunity to refine." - Bad Religion


I'll be a Poll _Pro_ on my next one.....


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## Slumber (Jun 6, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> "Mistakes are another opportunity to refine." - Bad Religion
> 
> 
> I'll be a Poll _Pro_ on my next one.....



"No Bad Religion song can make your life complete." -Bad Religion


Sorry, I had too. A friend of mine is always throwing that one at me.


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## ven (Jun 6, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs Keeppower 18650*

Out of the 3 brands mentioned mr forest chump,i have only the KPs . Some 14500,others 3100 and 3400 protected 18650. Pany inside the 18650,find best value out of the mentioned(could vary per country though) and been issue free. Soon KP are releasing a flashlight and charger........

Other brands i like for value and performance are Samsung and LG right now for IMR and INR cells. The latest Samsung 30q are good value at 15a and 3000mah..........

Advantages i find are being that few mm shorter,(no PCB) they are not "flashlight fussy" regarding fitment.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 6, 2015)

For bored SureFire lights like Oveready, where the diameter may cause a fitment issue, it should be mentioned that the AW protected 3400mAh 18650 sized battery will work in those flashlights. The diameter is narrow enough.


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## radiopej (Jun 6, 2015)

I like my KeepPower cells most, but I'm pretty sure that it's because they were my first.

They all seem decent enough for my needs, though I haven't used Orbtronic.


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## tonys (Jun 13, 2015)

I have to agree that the AW brand is expensive.

I have some KeepPowers but I sell EVVA because I could confirm they were using a 3 MOSFET protection circuit. 

I think the Blazer brand also use the newer 3 chip PCB as well. 

Here is a comparison shot from another forum of the KeepPower and EVVA PCBs (although this photo is old now).


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## HKJ (Jun 13, 2015)

3 mosfet is not by itself any advantage over 2 mosfet.
The mosfet has two function:

1) Turn the current on/off
2) Work as a resistor to measure the current

2) is the problem, using 3 mosfet of the same type as when using 2 will allow 50% more current draw before the overload protection trips, this also means 50% more heat in the protection pcb (If more current is used).

The best solution is to replace the controller chip with a more sensitive version, to avoid the increase in trip current, this will make the battery better.
The other solution is to use mosfet with higher resistance, this does not really improve the battery (It can be looked on as a small improvement that the heat generation is distributed over 3 chips, instead of 2).


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## tonys (Jun 13, 2015)

Thanks HKJ.



> using 3 mosfet of the same type as when using 2 will allow 50% more current draw before the overload protection trips, this also means 50% more heat in the protection pcb (If more current is used).



I knew that part already.

So if you were recommending 18650 batteries what brand(s) would you recommend?


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## HKJ (Jun 13, 2015)

tonys said:


> So if you were recommending 18650 batteries what brand(s) would you recommend?



The cell must be Panasonic, Sanyo, LG, Samsung or Sony. The actual brand on the battery is not very important, but it has to be somebody you can trust. I do stay from the batteries with clear wrapper, that is a unknown brand.
For me it is easiest to get Keeppower batteries.


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## recDNA (Jun 13, 2015)

Wrong thread for this post so I decided to delete it.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 13, 2015)

And you are not posting pictures or a video?


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## recDNA (Jun 14, 2015)

Off topic post I decided to remove.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 14, 2015)

Your SolarForce flashlight has a rubber tail cap? Were there any burn marks or damage on it or the body? 

I think others would like to hear any perspective from experienced, knowledgable CPF members regarding what might have caused this. Too bad we won't be able to see the battery. Which model battery was it? 

Presenting this information in a which-is-better 'battery shootout' type of thread would not be where I would post such information. And I sure would make a visual record so that all of us could learn.


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## HKJ (Jun 14, 2015)

There is no doubt the battery vented, luckily there was no sparks and the gas could escape without any trouble.
The reason could be a faulty cell or a short


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## recDNA (Jun 14, 2015)

OT post. I do not wish to hijack thread. Removed.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 14, 2015)

I have read numerous posts of yours in the past and had always considered you to be a legitimate source of information. 
We have only your words on this. For anyone to say the battery definitely vented is basing that solely on your words.


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## SilverFox (Jun 14, 2015)

Hello recDNA,

I don't like hearing stories like this...

Fortunately everything that matters is OK.

As HKJ pointed out the most likely cause was a short in the protection circuit or a short inside the cell. I find it interesting that you had enough heat, it sounds like, to cause a major mishap but there was no spark.

You dodged a major bullet.

It is difficult to know what exactly happened so I will simply remind everyone that there are some dangers associated with stored energy. 

Tom


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## magellan (Jun 16, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*



ChrisGarrett said:


> I like AW, but their cells are a bit on the spendy side. Assuming that the three above are using the same bare cell and using the same Seiko PCB, I'm going with the cheapest cost to me.
> 
> Right now, that's Orbtronic and since they're here in Florida, I'm helping another Floridian out.
> 
> ...




You fly naked? Isn't that illegal?


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## magellan (Jun 16, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

I've used all three, but have not seen significant differences between them. But then I don't push my batteries very hard. I've also tried the other major brands (LG, Sanyo, Samsung), again, all decent cells in my experience.

As for the cost of AWs, it's not a problem since I rarely have more than 3 flashlights that use lithium ion cells in use at any one time. Also I only have maybe 2 dozen of the larger lithium ions (18650 & larger) as I'm mainly into small pocket lights (CR2/15270 and smaller) and those don't cost as much.

On the other hand, we have almost 120 AAA and AA NiMH batteries in use because of all the remotes and other devices around the house that use them.


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## tonys (Jun 16, 2015)

*Re: AW vs Orbtronic vs KeePower 18650*

Slightly off topic but I just found out that EVVA and Keeppower used to be the same company and split for some reason. According to my source they still get their components from the same place and have the same basic specifications.

I might see if EVVA are willing to send some to HKJ for testing.


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## RMM (Jul 14, 2015)

tonys said:


> I have to agree that the AW brand is expensive.
> 
> I have some KeepPowers but I sell EVVA because I could confirm they were using a 3 MOSFET protection circuit.
> 
> ...



Tony, yes, that photo is almost two years old now. I ought to know, it's mine. For those who are interested, Google Evva vs. Keeppower if you want to see the original thread (unless I'm mistaken, I can't post a direct link here). 

The Orbtronic Protected 3400 batteries also use three MOSFETs. The protection circuit is nearly identical to the Evva circuit: It uses the same FETs, the same Seiko IC, the same component values, and the same component values. The Orbtronic PCB has KP markings on it. If you tore the Evva and Orbtronic batteries down without any identifying markers you would have a hard time telling them apart. There are slight differences, but not much at all. 

Also, not all Evva protected batteries use three MOSFETs--they also produce a 2 MOSFET version, so you would be wrong to assume that just because the protected cell is from Evva the PCB has three MOSFETs on it.

For most of the kind of lights I build the three MOSFET PCB shows definite advantages: it has less resistance and can handle higher continuous loads without tripping or overheating. The one advantage of the 2 MOSFET PCB is that its diameter is slightly smaller, allowing for a bit less bulge in that area of the battery.


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## tonys (Jul 14, 2015)

RMM said:


> Tony, yes, that photo is almost two years old now. I ought to know, it's mine. For those who are interested, Google Evva vs. Keeppower if you want to see the original thread (unless I'm mistaken, I can't post a direct link here).
> 
> The Orbtronic Protected 3400 batteries also use three MOSFETs. The protection circuit is nearly identical to the Evva circuit: It uses the same FETs, the same Seiko IC, the same component values, and the same component values. The Orbtronic PCB has KP markings on it. If you tore the Evva and Orbtronic batteries down without any identifying markers you would have a hard time telling them apart. There are slight differences, but not much at all.
> 
> ...



Thanks very much for the answer - although I think most of that's already been covered. And I did state the photo is old. 

When it comes to suppliers I never assume anything - having been caught before with dud products and not only from China but the USA too. So many of them stretch the truth it's not funny. Where I am located every man and his dog are selling AW and Keeppower batteries so I wanted a good brand that not everyone else is selling. So I picked EVVA. At this point I only sell EVVA 18650 3400 mAh with the 3 mosfet circuit. 

I have some older Fenix lights that I can't get any protected 18650 batteries into (at least all the brands Ive tried) so I have to use use unprotected batteries in those. I would prefer a protected battery but since those lights are relegated to the test pile now, its no big deal. 

I think Ive seen Nitecore pushing their branded IMR batteries that appear to be unprotected. Do you have any experience with them? 

Oh yeah - EVVA have agreed to send batteries to HKJ for testing.


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## RMM (Jul 15, 2015)

Age is different than source.

No, I don't have any experience with the Nitecore IMR batteries. I usually am not a fan of an expensive battery that has a "mystery" cell inside.

If the lights don't fit protected cells then just run unprotected...live life on the edge! :devil: 
I get an adrenaline rush each time I insert an unprotected cell and pull the trigger! The biggest rush of all is when I stick three unprotected 26650s  _in series _in a light that pulls 15A+. It's like Russian Roulette. :nana: 

(Since most of you here don't know me that well, I'm being just a _bit_ sarcastic...hence the smiley faces )


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## markr6 (Jul 15, 2015)

RMM said:


> Age is different than source.
> 
> No, I don't have any experience with the Nitecore IMR batteries. I usually am not a fan of an expensive battery that has a "mystery" cell inside.
> 
> ...



Can't beat a sense of humor!! To be serious though, I can't imagine spending over $10 on an 18650. The $15-$20 cells out there? Madness!! But that's their decision. Good quality cell, charger and common sense is all I need.


Pick a hand! *DIDI MAU!!!*


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## OldSage (Jul 2, 2017)

New to cpf. Clueless to which brand of 18650 is the "better" manufacture. Following HJK recommendations of sticking with battery built around Sanyo, Panasonic, Samsung.... and following the dated trend on this poll (lemming effect?). Originally placed and order for Orbtronic 3100 (~$56/4). Cancelled. No Prime so AMZX is still in the process of shipping after 4 days. Purchased 5 of Sanyo based KeepPower 3500s from Ilumn for ~$55USD. Cost factor, bit more capacity and higher sustained (on paper) discharge rate. Seems to be a better value.


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