# State police asked Walmart to...



## vtran96 (Feb 29, 2008)

I stopped by Walmart to take a look at the Kershaw Blur with a tanto blade today. Their price was right, $55 on their website. When I was there it said "Not Available" by the picture. The lady at the counter asked me if I wanted to look at any knife and I asked her if they were out of the Kershaw Blur or are you not carrying it anymore. I couldn't believe what her answer was, the PA State Police came in here and asked us to stop sell them. :thumbsdow Is it a policy for the police to do this? The knife is not an automatic, so it's perfectly legal to sell/buy them in PA. Suffice it to say that I will be in possession of one very soon.


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## IcantC (Feb 29, 2008)

vtran96 said:


> I stopped by Walmart to take a look at the Kershaw Blur with a tanto blade today. Their price was right, $55 on their website. When I was there it said "Not Available" by the picture. The lady at the counter asked me if I wanted to look at any knife and I asked her if they were out of the Kershaw Blur or are you not carrying it anymore. I couldn't believe what her answer was, the PA State Police came in here and asked us to stop sell them. :thumbsdow Is it a policy for the police to do this? The knife is not an automatic, so it's perfectly legal to sell/buy them in PA. Suffice it to say that I will be in possession of one very soon.


 
State police cannot just walk in and tell them to stop selling something... Wonder what she is smoking :candle:


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## vtran96 (Feb 29, 2008)

IcantC said:


> State police cannot just walk in and tell them to stop selling something... Wonder what she is smoking :candle:



It did occur to me that she was lying, but when I asked her about the knife, she didn't even blink an eye. The words came right out. I'm going to call the other Walmart and see what they say.


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## vtran96 (Feb 29, 2008)

OK. I just called the another Walmart in my area and the guy told me that the police asked them to stop carrying ALL assisted opening knives!!!!!!!!!!


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## 270winchester (Feb 29, 2008)

some police agencies view assist opening knives in the same category as switch blades. It depends on the wording of the individual state's legislative definition of a switch blade versus assisted opening knife.

all Walmarts in California has stopped selling sporting arms, and many even stopped selling ammunition under pressure from "community groups". They have a history of caving in to outside "suggestions" as to the products they make available. This is another good reason to support you independent shops regardless of what the item is, Walmart doesn't care if it is legal, just a good PR image and such.


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## NA8 (Feb 29, 2008)

What exactly is so bad about switchblades and assisted opening knives anyway ?


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## RA40 (Feb 29, 2008)

Sad. I suppose if you are going to stab or slice someone, they want you to do it gentlemanly by opening the blade manually.  I wonder how long it will be before CA merchants get them yanked also.


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## Supernam (Feb 29, 2008)

Who knows, but the Walmart in Huntington Beach has A LOT of ammo.


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## tussery (Feb 29, 2008)

NA8 said:


> What exactly is so bad about switchblades and assisted opening knives anyway ?


Nothing is bad about them they just got a bad wrap because of movies like West Side Story. It is more of a fear mongering reason that they are outlawed as they are no deadlier than any other knife or gun. In fact my Axis locks which are not assisted opening can open faster than my Nitrous Stryker and Nitrous Blitz.


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## Illum (Feb 29, 2008)

[Rant=]
I'm surprised the smaller the knife the more regulation there is. A Kershaw Outcast can be bought by anyone but the blackout is another story.
I can hide an outcast just wearing a black T-shirt and a pair of Bermuda shorts and their concerned with pocketknives and the associated stabbing cases
what comes down to is the irresponsible people who buy them and use them...like that farking @#$% who pointed a green laser at an aircraft. will they ban green lasers for that once case? you bet your @#$% they will, soon or later we won't be able to buy anything good. remember the times when M-80 or bigger firecrackers were sold? whatever happened to that? huh?!
[/Rant]

:sigh: 
I'm glad Florida's regulations are lenient....though theres an abrupt decrease in Wal-mart's stock on guns.


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## jzmtl (Feb 29, 2008)

Is that a kershaw outcast in your shorts or are you just happy to see me?

If you think auto illegal is ridiculous, check out what's illegal in canada.


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## Illum (Feb 29, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> Is that a kershaw outcast in your shorts or are you just happy to see me?



:lolsign:
I unscrew the belt lock and tie it around my waist from the back...the bulge you noticed was the KT4 on my M6


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## gadget_lover (Feb 29, 2008)

It's not too hard to believe that some police force leaders may ask local retailers not to carry specific items. If there have been problems in the area and they used assisted opening knives, they might well try to diminish the problem by banning the knives. Well meaning people often confuse cause and effect.

Now, if you stop to think about it, the knife is a likely to be a symptom as is is a cause. A person likely to attack someone might well be drawn to a nice OA knife, especially if they have a forbidden air about them. 

Just buy one elsewhere and don't let it stress you.

Daniel


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## Beamhead (Feb 29, 2008)

What next? Please don't sell crow bars, hammers, utility knifes, screwdrivers, tire irons, bats, golf clubs, anything that is not made by Nerf...............people kill people no matter what the "Nannies" try and do to protect us. The "Nannies" more often than not leave us "unprotected" with this knee jerk mamby pamby feel good Bravo Sierra.....


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 29, 2008)

It might be a local ordinance or law. For example, NYC and San Antonio have more restrictions than their state laws.


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## nightgaunt (Feb 29, 2008)

A fixed blade is always quicker than an auto or assisted folder...


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## DonShock (Mar 1, 2008)

Beamhead said:


> What next? Please don't sell crow bars, hammers, utility knifes, screwdrivers, tire irons, bats, golf clubs, anything that is not made by Nerf...............


I had to laugh when I went shopping for a bunch of stuff one timeand was asked for proof of age. Stupid me, I commented that it must be because I was buying a hatchet and the clerk said no, it was for the spray paint.

I'm always amazed how little sense some of these regulations make. Even though you couldn't buy a little pocket folder in sporting goods, I'll bet you would have no problem getting a much more deadly knife over in housewares.


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2008)

Beamhead said:


> What next? Please don't sell crow bars, hammers, utility knifes, screwdrivers, tire irons, bats, golf clubs, anything that is not made by Nerf...............people kill people no matter what the "Nannies" try and do to protect us. The "Nannies" more often than not leave us "unprotected" with this knee jerk mamby pamby feel good Bravo Sierra.....


 
Good points.

I was in Wal-Mart yesterday. Stopped by the flashlight aisle. Nothing of interest. But the flashlight aisle shares space with inexpensive camping gear. Could have picked up a nice machete for $6.49, but chose to pass on it.... Maybe next time I'm there. :ironic:


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## vtran96 (Mar 1, 2008)

nightgaunt said:


> A fixed blade is always quicker than an auto or assisted folder...



What makes you think I'm not carrying one of those as well.


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## vtran96 (Mar 1, 2008)

gadget_lover said:


> It's not too hard to believe that some police force leaders may ask local retailers not to carry specific items. If there have been problems in the area and they used assisted opening knives, they might well try to diminish the problem by banning the knives. Well meaning people often confuse cause and effect.
> 
> Now, if you stop to think about it, the knife is a likely to be a symptom as is is a cause. A person likely to attack someone might well be drawn to a nice OA knife, especially if they have a forbidden air about them.
> 
> ...



I understand their concerns about such items being used in criminal activity, but I'm not buying it. Criminals have an advantage, the element of surprise. They can prepare and decide when they want to attack, therefore an open assist won't make much of a difference. You and I have to rely on quickness and ability to come out ahead. These mechanisms assist us in doing so, it is for defensive purposes. There are no local laws I'm aware of that limits the sale of such things. In fact I was at a gun show last weekend and there were plenty of open assisted knives. 

Don't worry, I'm not stressed out. I will be in possession of one soon. I can get a carry permit in 3 weeks but I can't legally own an automatic? Go figure. It just is annoying that people think the solution is to remove "dangerous" items from the public.


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## cutlerylover (Mar 1, 2008)

Thats very upsetting, I too live in PA, but I have not yet checked out my walmart to see if they did the same...its not right! cops are messed up, you would think by now they would realize that anyone can open a pocket knife as fast as an auto or assisted opening mechanism...The problem is that knives are seen as weapons...but like beamhead pointed out, almost anythgin cna be a weapon...a baseball bat is more effective and more fool proof as a weapon than even a large knife...But, the law is the law, and in the 1950's they made a rule, and they are sticking with it, no matter what! Which just plain stinks, and is stupid...


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## n4zov (Mar 1, 2008)

If police are hassling War-Mart, I wonder what their reaction is if they find an individual actually carrying an assisted opening knife? They can cause individuals a lot of problems even if it isn't illegal to carry the knife. I guess I don't have a lot of confidence that the cops are going to wish you a good day and send you on your way!


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2008)

Knowledgeable Officers know that a fixed-blade can be just as easily concealed as a folder. 

I learned a trick that allows one to conceal a 7-inch Kabar knife, and still have it ready to easily bring into play. All you need is an untucked T-shirt. 

Ironically, I learned this trick from an LEO.


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## Paladin (Mar 1, 2008)

Sometimes "gravity" knives are considered illegal. Even a well worn Buck 110 can fit that description. When I showed a Texas Ranger my Spyderco knife the first thing he did was try to get it to open by flicking his wrist. Finding that impossible, he declared it "OK to carry", and asked where HE could get one. Unfortunately the Black Ti finish was long discontinued.

*Recent changes to our "castle doctrine" law apparently now allows the carry of handguns, illegal knives, and clubs in one's vehicle!* But in San Antonio there is a city code against carrying certain lock blade knives. Check your local state and city codes for definitions of what bladed instruments are permitted, and what styles can NOT be carried. Assisted openers might well be illegal in your area, so don't be so quick to dump on Wallochinamart or the police.

Paladin


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## cutlerylover (Mar 1, 2008)

hey paladin, would you happen to be the owner or have any relationship with the paladin press? I also noticed the trademark knight...lol, I love the paladin press and own many books printed by them...Just wondering if that was too much of a coincidense, lol...


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## Lightraven (Mar 1, 2008)

Just yesterday, another arrestee was taken in with a knife blade--not a knife just the serrated blade of a steak knife. That's not unusual. Dangerously low quality folders (to the user), razor blades, folding scissors, multi tools and fixed blades are the rule. 

One bad guy had about six knives on him, folders, daggers and some kind of exotic fixed blade mini kukuri/hatchet type knife.

Of all the knives I have seen bad guys carrying, NOT ONE had an automatic or assisted open folder--even with Tijuana next door. 

I can buy autos all day long and some of my coworkers carry one, but I think they are more problems than they are worth. Assisted openers are better but get labeled as autos sometimes, so they might not be worth it either.


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm not really into Assisted-openers, but I bought 2 SOG versions, and 1 from Buck a few months back. 

It's likely that they'll get harder to come by in a few years time.


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## macforsale (Mar 1, 2008)

I am wonder if this is a case where the police are the 'messenger' and that the State's Attorney General is the message originator? Still, without do process it seems heavy handed.


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## cutlerylover (Mar 1, 2008)

Well I don't think that the police can actually tell walmart don't sell these...because they still are legal, but I am sure they striongly suggested that they do not, and walmart makes enough money not to rely on assisted knife sales, lol, so they sure, whatever...I am pretty sure thats how it went down...but again, why is a knife thats blade openers fast any more dangerous than a fixed blade of its same size? Its not...it just appears to be scary for some reason to citizens and police alike...maybe police officers alreayd know its stupid, but they will do anythgin they can to limit the chances that they will eventually come in contact with a mad guy who is wavign aroudn a knife...Any kind of knife for that matter...

Actually I read somewhere that somethgin like 80% of knife attacks are done with kitchen cutlery...and I heard a statistic on a knife video that every 40 seconds someone is attacked with a knife, and something like one out of every 60 attacks end in death...thats not a very effective killign rate if you ask me...Think about all the crap everyone ahs to deal with guns...Knives shuld not be an issue these days in any way if you ask me...execpt letting people carry machetes into stores...

Ok, knife guy rant over, lol...


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## stitch_paradox (Mar 1, 2008)

Lightraven said:


> Just yesterday, another arrestee was taken in with a knife blade--not a knife just the serrated blade of a steak knife. That's not unusual. Dangerously low quality folders (to the user), razor blades, folding scissors, multi tools and fixed blades are the rule.



Is it illegal to caryy any of the one mentioned above?


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## NeonLights (Mar 1, 2008)

cutlerylover said:


> Actually I read somewhere that somethgin like 80% of knife attacks are done with kitchen cutlery......


I heard a similar statistic a few years ago, that more people are attacked with kitchen knives than all other kinds of knives combined. Kitchen knives are readily available in all sorts of shapes and sizes, and anyone can buy or own one. Rather silly they go after the assisted openers with 2-3" blades.


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## Lightraven (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm not especially knowlegable of weapons laws. As far as I know, dirks, daggers, stilettos, butterfly knives, switchblades, springblades and gravity knives are illegal to carry in California. There are some other restrictions as far as blade length and possibly concealed versus open carry but I'm not sure of the particulars.

The items I mentioned are not illegal, but could be seized under various circumstances.


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2008)

NeonLights said:


> I heard a similar statistic a few years ago, that more people are attacked with kitchen knives than all other kinds of knives combined. Kitchen knives are readily available in all sorts of shapes and sizes, and anyone can buy or own one. Rather silly they go after the assisted openers with 2-3" blades.


 
It's a P.R. gimmick. The Mayor of any city can "crack down on illegal switch-blades or gravity knives;" to show how "serious" they are about crime prevention. 

Same thing is currently happening in NYC.... With selective enforcement. Big stores like Paragon on 18th street and Broadway can sell assisted-openers quite freely. (I bought my 2 SOG and 1 Buck A.O. knives from there). But smaller shops, those they go after. I have an aquaintence who used to sell some of the best Production and Custom knives from his small shop. Local officers used to be his best customers. Not only was his inventory of common folding knives confiscated, but they went to his home and took his entire private collection. Many weren't even A.O. knives. They arrested him, and tried to get him to plea to just a year in jail.

He decided to fight them. But even if he wins, his Life-savings will be gone. He no longer sells knives. The funny part (if you can call it that) was when an LEO walked into his shop and wanted him to sharpen a custom knife that had gone dull..... The knife was a one-off model that my buddy had designed himself, and one of the knives confiscated from his private collection! I'll spare you the rather lame story the LEO gave when asked where he got the knife. 

As politely as he could, my buddy basically told the Officer to f**k off; without being blatant about it. 

BTW, Paragon has 14 lawyers on retainer. Hmm.... I wonder if that _might_ be a reason they don't get visits from the police.


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## 270winchester (Mar 1, 2008)

bottom line: support your independent shops. they are more likely to say "back off" to outside pressure than corporate heads who meet in board rooms in Bentonville thousands of miles away.


Sam Walton must be rolling in his grave if he knew what became of his creation.


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## gadget_lover (Mar 1, 2008)

macforsale said:


> I am wonder if this is a case where the police are the 'messenger' and that the State's Attorney General is the message originator? Still, without do process it seems heavy handed.




I would think that it's just a matter of a single police official trying too hard. All it takes is a polite letter to cause stores to stop selling things.


Daniel


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## gorn (Mar 1, 2008)

270winchester said:


> all Walmarts in California has stopped selling sporting arms, and many even stopped selling ammunition under pressure from "community groups".



Not quite what happened. The idiots at Walmart were not doing the paperwork on firearms sales like the federal law required. So the State and ATF pulled their FFL and State license to sell firearms. There was an unbelievable amount of incorrect (or no) paperwork done on guns sold at Walmart in California.


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## cutlerylover (Mar 2, 2008)

Guns are a whole other issue, but for some reason my local walmart syopped their gns sales, I am in North east PA, but they still sell ammo...I am not sure if there was an issue with the guns or if they just were not selling enough of them?


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## Monocrom (Mar 2, 2008)

cutlerylover said:


> Guns are a whole other issue, but for some reason my local walmart syopped their gns sales, I am in North east PA, but they still sell ammo...I am not sure if there was an issue with the guns or if they just were not selling enough of them?


 
There was actually an undercover investigation some years back. Not by the police, but by a national news network. Two underaged teens were hired by the network to go into Wal-Mart, and try to buy guns. I believe the teens went into several Wal-Marts.... and most of the time, walked out with guns. :thumbsdow

So, many Wal-Marts stopped selling guns, but not ammo, after the story aired.


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## cutlerylover (Mar 2, 2008)

Oh ok..I figured it might be a reason like that instead of the not selling reason...thats crazy!


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## Monocrom (Mar 2, 2008)

cutlerylover said:


> Oh ok..I figured it might be a reason like that instead of the not selling reason...thats crazy!


 
Yup.

The teens walked in with a hidden camera. Most of the time, they weren't even asked to show I.D.


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## Manzerick (Mar 2, 2008)

My buddy bought one last time I made him take the flashlight asile walk!


Pretty mean piece!!! 



Monocrom said:


> Could have picked up a nice machete for $6.49, but chose to pass on it.... Maybe next time I'm there. :ironic:


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## greenstuffs (Mar 4, 2008)

That's what you get at walmart when you pay crappy salary and sweat shop labor conditions to their employees, they just simply don't care. I wouldn't care either, the old saying of you get what you pay for has more meaning when comes to your employees. I really think the news are destroying this country with their stupid stories just like having teens baiting an adult to buy liquor or cigarettes. 



Monocrom said:


> Yup.
> 
> The teens walked in with a hidden camera. Most of the time, they weren't even asked to show I.D.


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## hopkins (Mar 11, 2008)

gadget_lover seems to have the correct attitude on this issue.


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## BladeDogg (Mar 12, 2008)

Somebody HIGHER up told them to stop selling it due to a PR thing. NOT a "dangerous" thing. If police officers are coming in and saying don't do it I am sure a manager caught wind of it, called corporate and corporate said, pull them until futher notice. Like some said, many crimes are done with kitchen knives. I have MUCH larger kitchen knives than what I carry EDC. Funny huh?


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## Monocrom (Mar 13, 2008)

BladeDogg said:


> Somebody HIGHER up told them to stop selling it due to a PR thing. NOT a "dangerous" thing. If police officers are coming in and saying don't do it I am sure a manager caught wind of it, called corporate and corporate said, pull them until futher notice. Like some said, many crimes are done with kitchen knives. I have MUCH larger kitchen knives than what I carry EDC. Funny huh?


 
Yup.

I can remember an incident in which an individual on a commuter train was opening some of his mail with the aid of a knife. A lady saw him doing this, and used her cellphone to dial 911. The cops stopped the train, and an officer approached the lady. She pointed the guy out to the officer. He approached the man, with back-up close by, asked him a few questions, then went back to confirm if it was indeed the same knife that the lady saw him use.

When she said it was, the officer threatened to have *her* arrested if she ever dialed 911 again without a good reason. It wasn't the fact that the man wasn't threatening anyone with the knife. More likely, it was because the knife was.... A Swiss Army Pen knife. That's why the hoplophobe dialed 911. 

When she got home, she probably used a 6 - 8 inch butcher knife to prepare dinner.... And was probably still wondering why the officer was so rude to her.


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## woodasptim (Mar 14, 2008)

I've heard from friends of mine on the police force that a lot of the local criminals like to carry 6" screwdrivers tucked into their waist band. Personally I don't feel the need for an AO knife, I'm perfectly content with my mini griptilian. As far as using either for personal protection, I'll stick with my Glock. I would love to have a microtech auto though .


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## swampgator (Mar 15, 2008)

macforsale said:


> I am wonder if this is a case where the police are the 'messenger' and that the State's Attorney General is the message originator? Still, without do process it seems heavy handed.


 

Sometimes it doesn't even have to go as far as the State Attorney General. Back when I worked for the state wildlife enforcement agency, often times rules are laws were 'intrepreted' by the agencies legal advisor. If he felt a certain type of black powder gun didn't fit the intent of the muzzleloading law, then use of that weapon was a violation during that season. Now, if they really wanted to do it right, they'd get the AG to sign off on an official legal intrepretation, but like I said, I've seen it done by staff attorneys.

So possibly, the decision was made by a lackey within the state police.


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## 276 (Mar 16, 2008)

I got an letter at my job from Sogknives saying that all there assited openers are legal in all 50 states, But honestly i think it can come down to the cop becasue i have asked some of the cops & a local gun store owner who was a cop about them. The cops say they are illegal even though at the store where i work we sell some. While the gun store owner said it can depend on the cop, thats why i only use them at work and carry a regular knife on me when i am not at work.


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## Monocrom (Mar 16, 2008)

276 said:


> I got an letter at my job from Sogknives saying that all there assited openers are legal in all 50 states, But honestly i think it can come down to the cop becasue i have asked some of the cops & a local gun store owner who was a cop about them. The cops say they are illegal even though at the store where i work we sell some. While the gun store owner said it can depend on the cop, thats why i only use them at work and carry a regular knife on me when i am not at work.


 
Many LEOs fear getting stabbed far more than shot. They will do practically anything to discourage folks from carrying knives.... especially those that open as quickly as a switchblade, but are street-legal Assisted Openers. I'm not surprised you were told that A/O knives are illegal. 

The Gun shop owner is correct. Sometimes it depends on the individual officer who discovers you have one. Some of the misinformation on what is or isn't street-legal, comes from LEOs. You're better off asking an attorney who specializes in Criminal Law.


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## 276 (Mar 16, 2008)

true , i have tried reading the local laws online about them but there so full of giberish on this and that that i cant understand stand it, i could as my pops to explain it in easier terms but he hates my knife collect. Not to woried though since i only use them at work and when not at work i usaually have a small but sharp and reliable knife on me so i dont get hassle about the size of the knife either.


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## ampdude (Mar 16, 2008)

I almost bought a CRKT from WalMart that was on sale last week. Upon reading this I'm glad I did not and I won't be buying any knives from them.


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## geekswithguns (Apr 1, 2008)

To be honest the line between assisted and switchblade is pretty thin- I personally think both should be legal- but the grounds making the "assisted" legal when a "switchblade" is not are pretty specious in most states...


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