# Zebralight SC64c



## TCY (Sep 22, 2017)

MSRP $79, XP-L2 4000K, 93-95 CRI, tint variation within a 2-step MacAdam ellipse, complete with the all new user programmable UI groups.


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## Nichia! (Sep 22, 2017)

Finally


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## Nichia! (Sep 22, 2017)

Could it be Made in USA now?!


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## csice (Sep 22, 2017)

Any word on:

-Why it is $10 cheaper than the sc63?
-Total lumen number?
-Any body changes, knurling, etc? When we might be able to see it?
-What is the tint variation within a 2-step MacAdam ellipse about?

Thanks for the update, been holding out.


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## marinemaster (Sep 22, 2017)

How long is this light ?


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## twistedraven (Sep 22, 2017)

I think it will still suffer from the green tint of the mk3 version. At 4000k, 2-step easy-white selection is still mostly over the bbl, instead of being dead on it, like 3500k and 3000k leds.


Let the tint lotto begin.


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## Connor (Sep 22, 2017)

twistedraven said:


> I think it will still suffer from the green tint of the mk3 version. At 4000k, 2-step easy-white selection is still mostly over the bbl, instead of being dead on it, like 3500k and 3000k leds.
> Let the tint lotto begin.



Technically the tint lottery never ended and so it cannot begin. ;-)

Personally I would prefer a SC64d @ 5000k but .. it's a 18650 high CRI Zebralight so I'll just have to buy it anyway. :shrug:


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## gunga (Sep 22, 2017)

Nice. I've been waiting for this. Maybe hey an sc53c too.


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## ven (Sep 22, 2017)

I do like the idea of 18650 fed hi cri, certainly around 95 cri!! However, even though my eyes can cope when used alone. Colours do look nice, the xp-l2 4000k to me is very yellow. Now while colours look great, whites,creams etc start to look smoke stained.............me not likey. 

So for now jury out, would like to try 4500k or even 5000k as mentioned for a cleaner beam if makes sense. I know subjective....................I kind of get a little frustrated, take the EDC+ and D4 4000k g2's, real nice warmth to it but lower CRI. Given the choice, the g2 4000k wins hands down regardless of lower CRI as my eyes are just so much happier.

I would like to see George consider the 219c 4000k which is a little towards yellow, but for me a lot easier on the eye than the xp-l2 4000k


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## Tixx (Sep 22, 2017)

Looking forward to this!


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## evgeniy (Sep 22, 2017)

O, 1st Zebra "CRI 90+" 4000K flashlight in 18650 class !
============
Very strange marketing solution, 5000K "CRI 90+" flashlights with 18650,
and 4000K "CRI 90+" flashlights with 1xAA or 18650 with middle-power drivers.


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## Fireclaw18 (Sep 22, 2017)

Any pictures of this light yet?


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## fnsooner (Sep 22, 2017)

Give me some thermal regulation and I'll be in for a couple.


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## Mattz68 (Sep 22, 2017)

Oh man, super excited for this light! I was just considering buying an SC63 and shipping it off to have it modded with 4000K Nichia. Small 18650 lights have made aa lights obsolete for me (I still understand their value) ~so close in size with so much more power. I just hope Z.L. isn't using the exact same bin that they used in the SC5c and perhaps these new 64's will not have the "yellowish" tint. Of course, I'll be first in line to find out!


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## iamlucky13 (Sep 22, 2017)

csice said:


> Any word on:
> 
> -Why it is $10 cheaper than the sc63?
> -Total lumen number?
> ...



They dropped the SC53 price a little bit compared to its predecessor, too. Most likely it's just a competitive action to maintain or grow their market position.

Lumens will probably be about the same as the SC63w. That's about the limit of the XP-L2 for high-CRI bins.

If the SC53 is any indication, the SC64 body will be basically the same as the SC63.

Being within a 2-step MacAdam ellipse means the sample-to-sample tint differences should be small. Most people should not


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## marinemaster (Sep 22, 2017)

I just can't do 4000K
Way too yellow for me. 
4500K is as low I can go.


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## TCY (Sep 22, 2017)

The price of the H53/SC53 line dropped because ZL dropped 14500 support to give room for the programmable UI groups, plus they couldn't fit the SC5's driver into the H53/SC53 housing. This has been discussed in length in the H53 thread but I'll post ZL's reply here for reader's convenience:

_"The SC5 Mk I driver has only one version, for both regular SC5 and SC5Fd/Fc. The SC5 Mk II driver is a slightly improved version of the Mk I -- more powerful and more efficient. If we were to put XM-L2s in the Mk II driver, we'd see the measurable improvements.
Yes, this driver is too big for the H53/SC53 body, and we don't plan to shrink it in the near future.

The H53/SC53/H503 driver is a slightly improved version of the H52/SC52/H502 driver. Again, if we were to put the same (bin) XM-L2 LED in the H53, we'd see some improvements there (in output and efficiency). On top of that, the new UI requires more memory space. Dropping off the 14500 support is among the very few options we had."_


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## csice (Sep 23, 2017)

Any idea when we might hear more/see the full reveal?


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## Keitho (Sep 23, 2017)

To me it seems a lot like an "SC63c" (which I have been hoping for--thanks for reading my dream journal, Zebralight!), but they most likely updated the driver with the new programmability. Bye-bye, $79 plus rush shipping...An H504c would lighten my wallet by an additional $90...


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## 18650 (Sep 23, 2017)

TCY said:


> MSRP $79, XP-L2 4000K, 93-95 CRI, tint variation within a 2-step MacAdam ellipse, complete with the all new user programmable UI groups.


 Waiting for the 5000K SC64d.


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## marinemaster (Sep 23, 2017)

4500K here.


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## 18650 (Sep 25, 2017)

I only now noticed the hiCRI SC5/SC53 was only released in 4000K form. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come with the 18650 version.


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## markr6 (Sep 27, 2017)

marinemaster said:


> I just can't do 4000K
> Way too yellow for me.
> 4500K is as low I can go.



I will probably hold off for the same reason.


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## Tixx (Sep 27, 2017)

marinemaster said:


> I just can't do 4000K
> Way too yellow for me.
> 4500K is as low I can go.



Depends. Tint lottery. I have XP-L hi 4000k that look like Nichia 219b. Those are not known for yellow at all.


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## low (Sep 27, 2017)

18650 said:


> Waiting for the 5000K SC64d.




I checked with Zebralight on this and they had this to say.

[FONT=&quot]Ticket status: Completed
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Department: Sales
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Subject: ZebraLight, Inc.: Update Tracking #31795
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Currently no plans for an SC64d variant. The only 5000K light that I can think of is the updated (brighter, new UI) version of the SC600Fd Plus, but I don't know when we'll announce that. 
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sincerely,
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ZebraLight, Inc.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2908 Story Rd. W
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Irving, TX 75038[/FONT]


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## 18650 (Sep 27, 2017)

low said:


> I checked with Zebralight on this and they had this to say. [FONT=&quot]Ticket status: Completed [/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Department: Sales [/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Subject: ZebraLight, Inc.: Update Tracking #31795 [/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Currently no plans for an SC64d variant. The only 5000K light that I can think of is the updated (brighter, new UI) version of the SC600Fd Plus, but I don't know when we'll announce that. [/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Sincerely, [/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]ZebraLight, Inc. [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]2908 Story Rd. W [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Irving, TX 75038[/FONT]


 As I feared. I'm not sure what they have against more 'd' lights. I have the SC62d which is a great all-arounder... just not enough output sometimes. 4000K is just too warm for all around EDC use.


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## KITROBASKIN (Sep 27, 2017)

18650 said:


> Waiting for the 5000K SC64d.



Not waiting, but will purchase if they make it.


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## gunga (Sep 27, 2017)

I like 4000K. The tint variation is not the greatest on the sc5c II but I don't notice it in use.


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## 18650 (Sep 28, 2017)

gunga said:


> I like 4000K. The tint variation is not the greatest on the sc5c II but I don't notice it in use.


 Not good in daylight outdoors or in an office which is why I personally want nothing to do with it for EDC. Upon closer inspection I now note all 10 of their 2017 releases are/will be 4000K or 4500K--everything on the warm side of neutral.


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## ven (Sep 28, 2017)

Agree 18650 that 4000k for me also can not be too easy on eyes in the day or artificially lit areas(work). I have found though, 4500k i can get away with(especially in 219b and xhp 35 variants). My preferences for work tend to be 4500-5500k, ideally 4500-5000k given the choice. So out of the 4000 and 4500k choices, the 4500k will win out for me. Throw in a potential 5000k and then a decision would have to be made............get 2! Day around 5000k, evening night i can still use 5000k but prefer 4000k again given the choice. To think not that long back............we did not have the choice!


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## markr6 (Oct 6, 2017)

I was really unhappy with my SC5c and the SC64c appears to be the 18650 version of that from what I can tell. But I don't think I'll be able to resist giving it a try. [tint] lotto/gambling addiction hotline: 800-522-4700


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## snowlover91 (Oct 6, 2017)

markr6 said:


> I was really unhappy with my SC5c and the SC64c appears to be the 18650 version of that from what I can tell. But I don't think I'll be able to resist giving it a try. [tint] lotto/gambling addiction hotline: 800-522-4700


Maybe you’ll have better luck with this one! I expect tint will be similar but you never know! Have you heard anything on when these will be released?


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## gunga (Oct 6, 2017)

I like my sc5c II. Looking forward to the 18650 version.


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## TCY (Oct 6, 2017)

I would love a headlamp version of the MkIV Plus:thumbsup:


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## Derek Dean (Oct 9, 2017)

Mark, I know you've tried using filters. Have you given up on those? I continue to filter every new light I get, and I'm one happy camper.


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## markr6 (Oct 12, 2017)

Derek Dean said:


> Mark, I know you've tried using filters. Have you given up on those? I continue to filter every new light I get, and I'm one happy camper.



I just don't like the idea of filters, so I gave up.

Zebralight is killing me with the 4000K stuff! But I've clearly proven my insanity here in the past by purchasing the same stuff over and over, so I guess I'll remain a buyer


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## ven (Oct 12, 2017)

markr6 said:


> I just don't like the idea of filters, so I gave up.
> 
> Zebralight is killing me with the 4000K stuff! But I've clearly proven my insanity here in the past by purchasing the same stuff over and over, so I guess I'll remain a buyer




I like 4000k, but not yellow 4000k . Can handle a little towards yellow like the 219c 4000k's i have(nice and a change). My most used and loved ZL is the sc62d, 320lm max and 5000k from the luxeon T(damn i love this light and may get another). Very close by the sc63w with a nice 4500k beam. I prefer the sc60's body, be it 62/63 and maybe 64! over the chunky 600 models............just like the design and how compact they are(62 my fav out of the 62 and 63). 

I think if they offered 4000/4500/5000k then most(if not all) would be happy...........even a 6000k for the cool junkies out there.


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## markr6 (Oct 12, 2017)

ven said:


> I like 4000k, but not yellow 4000k . Can handle a little towards yellow like the 219c 4000k's i have(nice and a change).



I agree with that. The 4000K 219B dropin in my Malkoff MD2 is perfect. I call it "gray" since it's basically lacking any tint; just perfect, natural color rendering. You really can't call it warm or cool.

I guess I'm hesitant with the 4000K in a Zebralight since even the 4400/4500K lights from them were usually too yellow. Just bad tints from Cree overall. I have a few that are OK. One was perfect like a Nichia, but I sold it since I didn't like the form itself (huge SC5w OP).

The SC5c I tried was pure awful. Yellow with no real discernible CRI advantage. I want to give them another try, though.


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## Random Dan (Oct 12, 2017)

markr6 said:


> I agree with that. The 4000K 219B dropin in my Malkoff MD2 is perfect. I call it "gray" since it's basically lacking any tint; just perfect, natural color rendering. You really can't call it warm or cool.
> 
> I guess I'm hesitant with the 4000K in a Zebralight since even the 4400/4500K lights from them were usually too yellow. Just bad tints from Cree overall. I have a few that are OK. One was perfect like a Nichia, but I sold it since I didn't like the form itself (huge SC5w OP).
> 
> The SC5c I tried was pure awful. Yellow with no real discernible CRI advantage. I want to give them another try, though.


My H600Fc III has a beautiful 4000K that doesn't look yellow at all. It's a shame the XM-L2 easywhite only works behind a frosted lens.


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## markr6 (Oct 12, 2017)

Random Dan said:


> My H600Fc III has a beautiful 4000K that doesn't look yellow at all. It's a shame the XM-L2 easywhite only works behind a frosted lens.



Yeah I've heard mostly positive feedback on the easywhites. Must be a higher win-rate with that lotto.


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## ven (Oct 12, 2017)

I did not look at the finer details when i got the sc5c mkII, i thought it was the xm-l2 easywhite(which i wanted). but got the xp-l2 easyshite instead :laughing: Well its not too bad, i am use to it, but it can come across as over yellow depending on my eyes! Not a fan of these new CREE LED's tbh, the .2's, the xp-l2 along with the xp-g3's.


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## Cobraman502 (Oct 13, 2017)

ven said:


> I did not look at the finer details when i got the sc5c mkII, i thought it was the xm-l2 easywhite(which i wanted). but got the xp-l2 easyshite instead :laughing: Well its not too bad, i am use to it, but it can come across as over yellow depending on my eyes! Not a fan of these new CREE LED's tbh, the .2's, the xp-l2 along with the xp-g3's.



I have the sc52w with easy white XML2 and I think it’s a great tint. Think it’s 4500k. I hope the sc64C is gonna be better since it’s higher cri. Can’t wait.


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## cclin (Oct 13, 2017)

ven said:


> ... Not a fan of these new CREE LED's tbh, the .2's, the xp-l2 along with the xp-g3's.


Depend on which bin you choose, xp-g3 4500k 90CRI with TIR is quite nice & xp-l2 3-step /4000k /80CRI has very nice pink tint unlike xp-l2 2-step/4000k/90CRI has yellowish tint.


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## eraursls1984 (Oct 13, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> I have the sc52w with easy white XML2 and I think it’s a great tint. Think it’s 4500k. I hope the sc64C is gonna be better since it’s higher cri. Can’t wait.


I don't think they used any 4500K easy whites.


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## markr6 (Oct 13, 2017)

THREE new models on the product sheet!

SC600 IV

SC600w IV

SC600w IV HI

ps. make that FIVE (SC64 and SC64w)


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## twistedraven (Oct 13, 2017)

My only concern with filters is how heat resistant they would be. Also, how would you go about adhering them to the lens without screwing with the beam quality?

I have an L6vn that I got Vinh to cherrypick me a 3000k 70.2 80CRI 2-step easywhite LED. The tint is decent all things considered, but the hotspot is still yellow compared to the spill. I think it would be the ideal candidate for a minus yellow filter, but at the same time I'm not sure if the filter could handle the insane amount of heat the 70.2 throws outwards.


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## Tachead (Oct 13, 2017)

cclin said:


> Depend on which bin you choose, xp-g3 4500k 90CRI with TIR is quite nice & xp-l2 3-step /4000k /80CRI has very nice pink tint unlike xp-l2 2-step/4000k/90CRI has yellowish tint.



This is not correct.

LED bins are not one Tint or CCT. They are a range of both Tint and CCT. The tighter the binning spec(5, 3, 2 Step MacAdam Ellipse for Cree and smX07, smX05, smX03 for Nichia) the smaller the variation or range. 

So, one persons sample can vary, sometimes greatly, in both Tint and/or CCT even when both lights use the exact same bin and type of LED. This has been aptly dimed the "Tint Lottery" 

Now, depending on the bin, certain LED's can have a higher percentage of emitters in one spectrum(ie. colour/tint). For instance, as you can see from the datasheet of the 2-Step XP-L2 Easywhite that ZL uses in the new "c" models you have a much higher chance of getting one with a yellowish/greenish tint. In fact, you only have about a 15-20% chance of getting one with a pinkish/magenta tint vs. yellowish/greenish. With the 3-step, your chances are slightly better but the extremes will be worse and you have a chance of getting one that is very pinkish/magenta or yellowish/greenish(much more so then the 2-step). The 5-step is even worse yet.











Three common mistakes I often see on this forum...

*1. Using Tint and CCT(correlated colour temperature) interchangeably.*

Tint and CCT are not the same thing. Although Tint does change with CCT, Tint is the colour of the light emitted where as CCT is the temperature. Two emitters with the exact same CCT can have totally different tints depending on the samples. A sample that falls far above the black body radiation line can have a strong greenish tint where as one that falls way below can have a strong pinkish tint even though they both might be the same CCT.

*2. Assuming all samples of a particular model of a light will have the same tint.
*
I frequently see threads and posts of people asking what the tint is like on a particular light or what emitter choice has the best tint. Most of the time this is a pointless question as unless the manufacturer is hand selecting(cherry picking) LED's the tints for a particular model can and usually do vary greatly. Just because one person got a nice "pure white" or "creamy" sample, doesn't mean you will. That person just may have won the "Tint Lottery".

*3. Assuming all samples of a particular model will have the same CCT or the exact CCT that the manufacture states in the specifications.
*
Manufacturers specified CCT is "nominal". Just like Tint, LED bins have a range of CCT. For instance, on a regular 5000K(Nominal)5-step Cree emitter colour temps can vary around 300-400 Kelvin so, one person may get a sample that is 5200K while another may get one that's 4800K.


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## Tachead (Oct 13, 2017)

markr6 said:


> THREE new models on the product sheet!
> 
> SC600 IV
> 
> ...



Nice find. 

I wonder why they chose to use XHP35's for the CW and W models when they used XP-L2's for the new AA flashlights and headlamps? I guess they care more about output then Tint and CCT consistency because the XP-L2's are 3-step vs. the 5-step XHP35's. You would think the XP-L2's would be more efficient too as they are standard 3V emitters. :thinking:


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## twistedraven (Oct 13, 2017)

I'm pretty sure both the XPL2s and XHP35s can be sourced in either 5,3, or 2 step easywhite selections.

XPL2s are probably a lower voltage LED, so less boosting is needed to run them, which is easier on the AA batteries as opposed to 18650s.


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## Tachead (Oct 13, 2017)

twistedraven said:


> I'm pretty sure both the XPL2s and XHP35s can be sourced in either 5,3, or 2 step easywhite selections.
> 
> XPL2s are probably a lower voltage LED, so less boosting is needed to run them, which is easier on the AA batteries as opposed to 18650s.



Nope, the XHP35 only comes in 5-step for the 4500K bin. And, the XP-L2 only comes in 3 and 5-step(4500K Bin).

Yep, they are 3V vs 12V. You would think it would generate less heat and be more efficient to use a 3V emitter even with 18650's. The only reason to use the 12V XHP35's that I can see is a slightly higher max output. Personally, I would have rathered them use the better binned XP-L2's like the other new models. It seems like basically they just bumped the drive current and added the new UI. Not a big change for a new model imo:shrug:. Hopefully we see some body and reflector changes/improvements too.


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## maukka (Oct 13, 2017)

Tachead said:


>



This tint bin chart has the BBL and CCT lines in the wrong position. Here's a corrected one.


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## Tachead (Oct 13, 2017)

maukka said:


> This tint bin chart has the BBL and CCT lines in the wrong position. Here's a corrected one.



Thank you sir:thumbsup:. 

I will swap it for the one I used.


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## twistedraven (Oct 13, 2017)

2 and 3 step doesn't mean better binned as far as tint goes for anything over 3500k for cree emitters. As mentioned earlier, it actually makes it harder to get a slightly rosy colored emitter (which is what people generally want I guess.) 

My 5-step XHP35 HI emitter in my SC600 is the best tint I've seen outside a nichia.


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## Tachead (Oct 13, 2017)

twistedraven said:


> 2 and 3 step doesn't mean better binned as far as tint goes for anything over 3500k for cree emitters. As mentioned earlier, it actually makes it harder to get a slightly rosy colored emitter (which is what people generally want I guess.)
> 
> My 5-step XHP35 HI emitter in my SC600 is the best tint I've seen outside a nichia.



But, it does mean better consistency in both Tint and CCT. It also means much less extremes. You have no chance of getting an extremely yellowish or pinkish sample with a 2-step. But,with a 5-step you have a chance of getting an extremely yellowish or pinkish sample. The CCT will also come much closer to matching the specifications with a 2-step vs. a 5-step. A 2-step 4000K will be 4000K +/- approx. 30-50 Kelvin. A 5-step 4000K will be 4000K +/-approx. 200-225 Kelvin. 

Also, keep in mind the warmer you go the more yellowish/orange an emitter will get even if both samples are right on the BBL. A 3500K emitter will always be more yellowish/orange then a 4000K one(given they are both the same distance above the BBL of course). Really, people who don't like yellow shouldn't be buying lights with 4000K or less emitters in them anyway because they are always going to be differing degrees of yellow.

Tint preference is a subjective thing but, imo rosy/pinkish can be a bad thing too if too extreme. In a warm emitter like the "c" models, I think a slightly yellowish biased emitter looks more like an incandescent bulb then a rosy/pinkish one and I think that's the effect many people are after as long as it's not too extreme. With cooler LED's however, you can start to get a greenish tint when you are above the BBL and I don't think barely anyone likes greenish.

Really, people complain no matter what lol. Remember the days of the 219a? Everyone complained about the pinkish tint now, they want it and don't like yellow. In a perfect world every emitter would be smack dab in the middle of the BBL but, I don't see that happening anytime soon. So for now, personally, I am still gonna go for emitters with tighter binning and hope I win the lottery lol. I am also going to just use my lights in the real world instead of comparing them to one and other and pointing them at a white wall all night.


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## fnsooner (Oct 22, 2017)

Man, I am getting more and more excited about this light as time passes. Here are my thoughts at the moment.

Has there been any confirmation on the body style of the SC64? Any pics that I might have missed?

I am also wondering about the size of the hotspot on this one. I own the SC62c and the main complaint I have about it is the small hotspot. I want the SC64 hotspot to be at least as large as the SC62 and SC63. The color temp was fine on the SC62c but the hotspot size and the lower lumens vs the SC62w keeps me from using it as much. 

Although it isn’t as big a deal as the hotspot size, I hope the SC64c doesn’t take as big of a hit on lumens vs the SC64w as the SC62c vs SC62w.

On the tint, the warmer the color temp the more you move into green to yellow to orange. I prefer the small window of as “yellow as possible” erring on the side of orange. I detest green. Looking at the chart, my target would be the upper most right hand corner of 5s. 




maukka said:


> This tint bin chart has the BBL and CCT lines in the wrong position. Here's a corrected one.


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## Cobraman502 (Oct 22, 2017)

fnsooner said:


> Man, I am getting more and more excited about this light as time passes. Here are my thoughts at the moment.
> 
> Has there been any confirmation on the body style of the SC64? Any pics that I might have missed?
> 
> ...



I’m hoping the sc64C doesn’t get a big hit on lumens either. The max per CREE is about 1100. If it’s the rumored 800 lumens I might go with the sc64w and hope for the best with the tint lotto.


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## fnsooner (Oct 22, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> I’m hoping the sc64C doesn’t get a big hit on lumens either. The max per CREE is about 1100. If it’s the rumored 800 lumens I might go with the sc64w and hope for the best with the tint lotto.



If it is 800 lumens(SC64c) vs 1400 lumens(SC64w), I would be fine with the difference. The SC62c was 320 lumens vs around 900 lumens for the SC62w, which was a lot. 


I will probably get both the SC64c and w eventually.


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## Tachead (Oct 22, 2017)

fnsooner said:


> If it is 800 lumens(SC64c) vs 1400 lumens(SC64w), I would be fine with the difference. The SC62c was 320 lumens vs around 900 lumens for the SC62w, which was a lot.
> 
> 
> I will probably get both the SC64c and w eventually.



I will be fine with the difference too(800 is plenty) but, I am guessing the SC64c will be more then 800 lumens. The H600Fc MKIII is 800 lumens and it uses the much older generation XM-L2 Easywhite. My guess is the SC64c will be between 900 and 1100 lumens. If they meet their pre-order estimate, we will find out very soon:twothumbs.


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## iamlucky13 (Oct 23, 2017)

fnsooner said:


> I am also wondering about the size of the hotspot on this one. I own the SC62c and the main complaint I have about it is the small hotspot. I want the SC64 hotspot to be at least as large as the SC62 and SC63. The color temp was fine on the SC62c but the hotspot size and the lower lumens vs the SC62w keeps me from using it as much.
> 
> Although it isn’t as big a deal as the hotspot size, I hope the SC64c doesn’t take as big of a hit on lumens vs the SC64w as the SC62c vs SC62w.



I'm pretty sure the Luxeon T has a smaller die than the XM-L and XP-L families, which should be responsible for the smaller hotspot.

I'd expect a fairly similar beam profile to the SC63, but it's not a perfect reference either.


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## ven (Oct 23, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> I'm pretty sure the Luxeon T has a smaller die than the XM-L and XP-L families, which should be responsible for the smaller hotspot.
> 
> I'd expect a fairly similar beam profile to the SC63, but it's not a perfect reference either.



Although far from perfect, here is a pic of the XP-L2 easywhite on the left and Philips Luxeon T.on the right.


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## Swedpat (Oct 23, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> I'm pretty sure the Luxeon T has a smaller die than the XM-L and XP-L families, which should be responsible for the smaller hotspot.
> 
> I'd expect a fairly similar beam profile to the SC63, but it's not a perfect reference either.



I have SC52d and it has Luxeon T emitter. This gives it better throw than SC52. So it becomes something similar to the XHP35 Hi compared to standard XHP35.


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## jon_slider (Oct 26, 2017)

ven said:


> XP-L2 easywhite on the left and Philips Luxeon T.on the right.



outstanding image, very grateful for your photos
besides led size, I like that your image captured the color of the LED in the reflector.

for comparison I added another showing the reflector color differences between warm white, neutral white, and cool white
similar to your photo, the cool shows more green than warmer leds


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## ven (Oct 27, 2017)

Thank you Jon


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## terjee (Oct 31, 2017)

These are available for pre-order now, shipping Nov 30:
http://www.zebralight.com/SC64c-18650-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_213.html


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## csice (Oct 31, 2017)

So is it a max of 900 lumens?


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## Tachead (Oct 31, 2017)

csice said:


> So is it a max of 900 lumens?


Yep, the specs are on the product page but, they haven't added runtimes yet.


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## csice (Oct 31, 2017)

With the new ui, can I set up the mode groupings with the same group more than once? Like can I set double click to be 600 which is in the high grouping and set one click to be 200 which is also in high? Or do I have to choose one from each of low medium and high?


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## TCY (Oct 31, 2017)

csice said:


> With the new ui, can I set up the mode groupings with the same group more than once? Like can I set double click to be 600 which is in the high grouping and set one click to be 200 which is also in high? Or do I have to choose one from each of low medium and high?



Absolutely. You can even set every single mode to 600lm if that's what you want.


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## Keitho (Oct 31, 2017)

Well, I was able to hold off for about 10 hours...pre-order placed now for the 64c. I'm proud of myself for all that self control!


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## Cobraman502 (Oct 31, 2017)

Keitho said:


> Well, I was able to hold off for about 10 hours...pre-order placed now for the 64c. I'm proud of myself for all that self control!



Haha I lasted 10 min. Just long enough to get logged in and sent to PayPal. [emoji38]


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## Tachead (Oct 31, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> Haha I lasted 10 min. Just long enough to get logged in and sent to PayPal. [emoji38]



+1.

I will say though, I have been very patient as I have wanted a ZL flashlight for years after being so happy with my headlamps but, patiently waited for the right one to be made. Sometimes it was painful hearing everyone talk about how nice theirs were though. I am glad I waited though as now I get the new UI and a high CRI 4000K SC6X and I didn't waste a bunch of money buying all the old models. I should be good for a while now.


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## timbo813 (Nov 1, 2017)

I'm planning to buy either the SC64c or SC64w within the next few months. My only zebralight is a SC53c which I love but the tint is a little more yellow than I would prefer so I'm leaning towards the SC64w. Either way, with that many lumens on tap I will be using the new interface to set it up so that one click doesn't get 1400 lumens in my face. One click for medium and double click for high seems better to me. That also eliminates the bright flash when double clicking to medium.


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## ven (Nov 1, 2017)

The sc64w is too close to my sc63w, so as I prefer the form over the 600 series, the sc64c will more than likely be my choice . 900lm of hi cri is not to be sniffed at! As the 600 is a little larger, the xhp50.2 makes better sense for me. Just which flavour........


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## Connor (Nov 1, 2017)

ven said:


> The sc64w is too close to my sc63w, so as I prefer the form over the 600 series, the sc64c will more than likely be my choice . 900lm of hi cri is not to be sniffed at! As the 600 is a little larger, the xhp50.2 makes better sense for me. Just which flavour........



I originally wanted the SC64c, too .. but then the SC600Fd Mk IV Plus happened. 1816 high CRI lumens are not too shabby either. ;-))


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## ven (Nov 1, 2017)

Connor said:


> I originally wanted the SC64c, too .. but then the SC600Fd Mk IV Plus happened. 1816 high CRI lumens are not too shabby either. ;-))




Yes, for the larger 600 i want a higher output , choice wise i am swaying towards the NW 4500k version which is still 80+ cri. Still i prefer the 62/63 and now 64(same as 63 it looks) body over the 600. Mainly form, plus i dont like the 600 clips either(no deal breaker though). My most preferred is the 62 body..............love it! I will probably get 2, the 64c and either the floody hi cri or NW 4500k version(not 100% yet on which). I did want to get the previous floody version, but now using the sc63w with the 4500k xhp35, the reflector is still floody bias over throw. In fact,. the hot spot is pretty much none existent from over 10ft or so..............like a wall of light. So with the reflector, my thinking is i can simply dial the output down for a mode, get enough brightness on a subject, where as the flood version needs to be up high=heat to accomplish the same............does that make sense. So the reflector ZL i am enjoying more than i was expecting, maybe as a lot of my lights are flood bias, be it triples/quads/mules , its making me want a few reflector lights as well to keep things interesting.


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## mightysparrow (Nov 1, 2017)

I'm looking at the output levels for the SC64w on the ZL website....is the lack of a high level in the 100's range for the SC64w an omission, or will the lowest high level be in the 200's?


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## Tachead (Nov 1, 2017)

mightysparrow said:


> I'm looking at the output levels for the SC64w on the ZL website....is the lack of a high level in the 100's range for the SC64w an omission, or will the lowest high level be in the 200's?



Yep, the lowest high mode appears to be 264 lumens. If you want something near 100, you want Medium 1. Don't worry though if you want that mode to be a high mode you can set it up pretty much however you want with the new UI.


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## mightysparrow (Nov 1, 2017)

Tachead said:


> Yep, the lowest high mode appears to be 264 lumens. If you want something near 100, you want Medium 1. Don't worry though if you want that mode to be a high mode you can set it up pretty much however you want with the new UI.



Thanks - I just took a better look at the available levels and noticed that there is a Medium level of output that is around where the lowest High level used to be in previous models. Looks like one of these will be at the top of my wish list, in any event.


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## Tixx (Nov 2, 2017)

ven said:


> The sc64w is too close to my sc63w, so as I prefer the form over the 600 series, the sc64c will more than likely be my choice . 900lm of hi cri is not to be sniffed at! As the 600 is a little larger, the xhp50.2 makes better sense for me. Just which flavour........



I have both the 

 SC64c 18650 Neutral White High CRI Flashlight and the 

 SC600w Mk IV Plus 18650 XHP50.2 Neutral White Flashlight sitting in my cart


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## recDNA (Nov 2, 2017)

Swedpat said:


> I have SC52d and it has Luxeon T emitter. This gives it better throw than SC52. So it becomes something similar to the XHP35 Hi compared to standard XHP35.



Just what I need. I prefer a smaller hotspot. I have too many pure flood lights


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## Tixx (Nov 2, 2017)

Surprised this light did not use the same emitter choice as the H600Fc Mk IV 18650 XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI Headlamp for an extra 668 lumens on high.



 Cree XHP50.2 Neutral White LED
Nominal CCT: 4000K 
Typical CRI: 93-95 
Tint deviation: 3-step 
 
High: H1 *1568* Lm (PID, )


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## easilyled (Nov 2, 2017)

Tixx said:


> Surprised this light did not use the same emitter choice as the H600Fc Mk IV 18650 XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI Headlamp for an extra 668 lumens on high.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe they didn't want quite such a floody beam. The beam angle in the above light is 120 degrees, whereas in the SC64c its an 80 degree spill with a 12 degree hotspot. :shrug:


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## iamlucky13 (Nov 2, 2017)

Tixx said:


> Surprised this light did not use the same emitter choice as the H600Fc Mk IV 18650 XHP50.2 Floody 4000K High CRI Headlamp for an extra 668 lumens on high.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Floody beams are more popular on headlamps than conventional flashlights like the SC64. Even without a frosted lens, the XHP50.2 would have a very broad beam in that small reflector.

If anything, I'd have expected a high CRI XHP35 to match the other SC64 Mk IV variants. I wonder if those are not available, or simply in high demand in other industries.


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## Tixx (Nov 2, 2017)

easilyled said:


> Maybe they didn't want quite such a floody beam. The beam angle in the above light is 120 degrees, whereas in the SC64c its an 80 degree spill with a 12 degree hotspot. :shrug:



Yeah, would definitely add to the flood


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## terjee (Nov 2, 2017)

easilyled said:


> Maybe they didn't want quite such a floody beam. The beam angle in the above light is 120 degrees, whereas in the SC64c its an 80 degree spill with a 12 degree hotspot. :shrug:



In addition to this, with the XHP50.2, you basically get four LEDs on one die (IIRC), and that would maybe be noticeable in the beam pattern with the SC64c, while the frosting on the F would smooth it out. The SC600w does use an XHP50.2 LED, but I seem to recall the SC600-series blending the light more/better than the SC64-series does? Would perhaps be interesting if they made an SC600c or SC600Fc, with XHP50.2?

Edit to add: See Tacheads post a bit below.


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## Tachead (Nov 2, 2017)

easilyled said:


> Maybe they didn't want quite such a floody beam. The beam angle in the above light is 120 degrees, whereas in the SC64c its an 80 degree spill with a 12 degree hotspot. :shrug:



Yeah, the XHP50.2 would have a very floody beam in that small of a reflector. Not to mention, it would likely step down faster on high due to the higher output and highly boosted driver. Only so much output is practical in a light with this little heatsink ability. I am surprised they are driving it so hard in the H600 lights frankly. Another thing to note is the XP-L2 is a 2-step binned emitter where as the XHP50.2 is only a 3-step.


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## Tachead (Nov 2, 2017)

terjee said:


> In addition to this, with the XHP50.2, you basically get four LEDs on one die (IIRC), and that would maybe be noticeable in the beam pattern with the SC64c, while the frosting on the F would smooth it out. The SC600w does use an XHP50.2 LED, but I seem to recall the SC600-series blending the light more/better than the SC64-series does? Would perhaps be interesting if they made an SC600c or SC600Fc, with XHP50.2?



The XHP50.2's dies are extremely close together like the XHP35 so, there should be no issues with beam artifacts like with the XHP50. Notice the difference...


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## terjee (Nov 2, 2017)

Tachead said:


> The XHP50.2's dies are extremely close together like the XHP35 so, there should be no issues with beam artifacts like with the XHP50. Notice the difference...



Nice! I missed that, sorry and thank you!


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## Tachead (Nov 2, 2017)

terjee said:


> Nice! I missed that, sorry and thank you!



No problem:thumbsup:.


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## phantom23 (Nov 2, 2017)

Tachead said:


> The XHP50.2's dies are extremely close together like the XHP35 so, there should be no issues with beam artifacts like with the XHP50. Notice the difference...


Distance between the dies is pretty much the same in both but in the 50.2 they're all covered with the same layer of phosphor. Single die activates slightly bigger area of the phospor than the die itself slightly covering the gap. That's why there are less artifacts.


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## ven (Nov 3, 2017)

Are these quad dies XP-G3 in the 50.2 ? The 70.2 XP-L2? Anyone confirm


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## Tachead (Nov 3, 2017)

phantom23 said:


> Distance between the dies is pretty much the same in both but in the 50.2 they're all covered with the same layer of phosphor. Single die activates slightly bigger area of the phospor than the die itself slightly covering the gap. That's why there are less artifacts.



It was my understanding that the dies were moved closer together in addition to the new coarser phosphor coating that covers the whole emitter? The dies sure appear to be closer together when you look at the emitter while lit.


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## twistedraven (Nov 3, 2017)

Yes for both the 50.2 and 70.2 the dies have been moved closer together. The new 50.2s are very close to how the XHP35 looks.


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## Tachead (Nov 13, 2017)

Has anyone else noticed that the SC64c specs say that only the two highest output levels are PID regulated but, the SC64 and SC64w specs say the three highest output modes are PID regulated? I wonder if this is a typo? If not, it looks like the "c" will have a higher constant(not thermal regulated) output level.


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## ingokl (Nov 14, 2017)

I don't think it's a typo. The given characteristic results from ZL's (from my perspective logical) choice of brightness levels, which is based on the light's maximum output. The 64w utilizes a Cree XHP35 LED, the 64c a Cree XP-L2. In general both LED have a very similar efficiency, but the XHP35 can be driven much harder. The maximal specified power of the XP-L2 is around 9 Watt, that of the XHP35 almost 13W. Therefore the 50% higher max output of the 64w compared to the 64c is not (only) based on a better efficiency of the LED but to a very high extent on a much higher driver power on max level. At "low" brightness levels of around 500 LED lumens an average XHP35 NW CRI 80+ LED is "only" about 20% more efficient than an average high CRI XP-L2 (depending on the specific bin of both LED). As the relative steps between brightness levels in both ZLs are similar and based on their maximum lumen output, the second H2 level of the 64w (502 lumen) is more than 44% brighter (lumen wise) than the second H2 level of the 64c (348 lumen). And even beeing more efficient the XHP35 of the 64w needs more power (around +30%) for the 502 lumen output than the 64c's XP-L2 for the 348 lumen. Obviously this additional power is enough to need the PID regulation. If ZL had chosen the same absolute H2 output levels for the 64w as for the 64c the second H2 level would not be thermal regulated and the 64w would provide better runtimes on these H2 levels than the 64c (given similar efficiency of the driver circuitry).
So yes... the consequence of this choice of lumen levels is indeed that the 64c has a higher maximal non thermal regulated output level (348 lumen) than the 64w (264 lumen), but with less runtime.


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## ingokl (Nov 15, 2017)

ZebraLight just updated the data für the SC64c. The lowest L2 level is 0.12 lumen now. That is more than ten times higher than the "firefly mode" of the older models SC63W and the SC62W (which I have and in my opinion is almost perfect). I find the 0.06 lumen level to be extremely useful, although I sometimes even prefer the 0.01 lumen mode. Is there anybody else for whom a minimum of 0.12 lumen would be too high and a considerable drawback or even stop him from wanting this light?


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## Tachead (Nov 15, 2017)

ingokl said:


> ZebraLight just updated the data für the SC64c. The lowest L2 level is 0.12 lumen now. That is more than ten times higher than the "firefly mode" of the older models SC63W and the SW62W (which I have and in my opinion is almost perfect). I find the 0.06 lumen level to be extremely useful, although I sometimes even prefer the 0.01 lumen mode. Is there anybody else for whom a minimum of 0.12 lumen would be too high and a considerable drawback or even stop him from wanting this light?



I too am annoyed by this change as one of the reasons I buy ZL's is because of their very low moonlight modes. The pre-order has been up for a couple of weeks now and many people have paid for these lights. To change the specifications after people have bought the light based on the ones that were posted is a bit of a shady move on ZL's part. I don't know why they would do this especially on a "c" model which is the one people buy for late night use.


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## Tixx (Nov 15, 2017)

Damn! Raising moonlight low is not cool!


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## terjee (Nov 15, 2017)

I’ve preordered it, and consider the change in spec to be a drawback. Would probably still have ordered it, but low lows is high on the list of why I choose ZL.
To he honest I can’t definitively recall if I checked the lowest before ordering it.


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## Derek Dean (Nov 15, 2017)

Possibly their production run came out somewhat different from what they expected. Well, nobody is perfect, not even Zebralight, and stuff happens. I'm happy I still have my SC62w, as I use it's second lowest level several times a night.


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## ingokl (Nov 15, 2017)

I already wrote to ZL before posting here and asked, if there is a technical reason for the much higher L2 lows. And I told them how useful I found the two <0,1 lumen levels the SC62w offered. In the past ZL fullfilled a lot of wishes flashlight enthusiasts had, be it the multiple option of beam patterns, color temperatures and CRIs or now the completely programmable modes. Perhaps it is not too late (as I am sure that the lumen levels are just programmed into the circuit). I think it won't do any harm if all flashaholics here, who really think the same, write them and friendly express their wish for the "old" two lowest lumen levels of the SC62 and SC63 flashlights. The worst thing that could happen is that nothing happens... in the best case a little "flashlightdream" might come true .

Edit: I just got an answer from ZebraLight: "We'll look into this, again, in the next 2-3 days (right before the production begins next week.)" [emoji4]


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## terjee (Nov 15, 2017)

Update us if/when you hear back, especially if there’s a technical reason for it?

Looking at it in isolation, I’d prefer a lower low, but I’m open to the idea that there could be valid technical reasons for the change.

Anyone familiar with the low low performance of the LED for example? I’m fussy on the details, but I seem to recall issues with some LEDs when run too low, unless PWMed?


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## ingokl (Nov 15, 2017)

Look at my updated post above. ZL already answered: "We'll look into this, again, in the next 2-3 days (right before the production begins next week.)"
Regarding potential technical reasons (my personal point of view, ZL did not mention anything about it): ZL already offers the XP-L2 in other flashlights (all AA) with exact the lowest lumen level of the SC62w and SC63w. So the LED is not the problem. The only issue could (theoretically) be the different driver circuit for the 18650.


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## terjee (Nov 15, 2017)

Thanks for the update.
I sent them a message as well.


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## gunga (Nov 15, 2017)

Wow. I often use the lowest low. This is a big drawback. I thought of cancelling my pre order for other reasons but now I have a real reason to cancel. I'll check back after the reports come in on the new lights.


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## Tachead (Nov 15, 2017)

gunga said:


> Wow. I often use the lowest low. This is a big drawback. I thought of cancelling my pre order for other reasons but now I have a real reason to cancel. I'll check back after the reports come in on the new lights.



Send them an email about your disappointment with the change if you can please Gunga. Maybe if they realize how much it means to many customers they will change it back. I sent them an email earlier as well.


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## Tixx (Nov 15, 2017)

Email sent


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## Duramarks (Nov 15, 2017)

I keep my Sc62 on my on my nightstand for a lamp. The low low light is a must for me.


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## Hugh Johnson (Nov 15, 2017)

ingokl said:


> ZebraLight just updated the data für the SC64c. The lowest L2 level is 0.12 lumen now. That is more than ten times higher than the "firefly mode" of the older models SC63W and the SW62W (which I have and in my opinion is almost perfect). I find the 0.06 lumen level to be extremely useful, although I sometimes even prefer the 0.01 lumen mode. Is there anybody else for whom a minimum of 0.12 lumen would be too high and a considerable drawback or even stop him from wanting this light?



I have another light I frequently use on its 0.1 lumen level. I use it to check on the kids and find it's way to bright to actually shine on them while they're sleeping. It's more than I need to ceiling bounce when I'm holding standing next to their bed. It's just about enough to put on the dresser and ceiling bounce for the whole room. It's also more than I need to navigate my place in the dark. I'm totally with you in that I think a sublumen level to the second decimal place is worthwhile.


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## csice (Nov 15, 2017)

Will the NCR18650GA batteries that they sell on the zebralight site work with the sc64c?


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## Tachead (Nov 15, 2017)

csice said:


> Will the NCR18650GA batteries that they sell on the zebralight site work with the sc64c?




Yes. Make sure you get the unprotected ones though as the protected won't fit.


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## csice (Nov 15, 2017)

Tachead said:


> Yes. Make sure you get the unprotected ones though as the protected won't fit.



This is what I was curious about. Is there an option? I know it requires an unprotected but it doesn't say whether the Sanyo ncr18650ga is unprotected or not, I was assuming it is.


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## Tachead (Nov 15, 2017)

csice said:


> This is what I was curious about. Is there an option? I know it requires an unprotected but it doesn't say whether the Sanyo ncr18650ga is unprotected or not, I was assuming it is.


The red one on ZL's site is unprotected. The green one(ZL635) is protected. You want the red one...

http://www.zebralight.com/Panasonic...-Battery-ship-to-US-customers-only_p_176.html


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## csice (Nov 15, 2017)

Tachead said:


> The red one on ZL's site is unprotected. The green one(ZL635) is protected. You want the red one...
> 
> http://www.zebralight.com/Panasonic...-Battery-ship-to-US-customers-only_p_176.html



Thanks


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## gunga (Nov 15, 2017)

Tachead said:


> Send them an email about your disappointment with the change if you can please Gunga. Maybe if they realize how much it means to many customers they will change it back. I sent them an email earlier as well.



I mentioned it when I cancelled my order.


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## Tachead (Nov 15, 2017)

csice said:


> Thanks



No problem:thumbsup:.


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## Tachead (Nov 15, 2017)

gunga said:


> I mentioned it when I cancelled my order.



Thanks:thumbsup:. Hopefully they will realize how important that really low moonlight is to many ZL customers.


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## gunga (Nov 15, 2017)

Yeah. That's a key feature for me. Very important.


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## JStraus (Nov 16, 2017)

Yes I will wait to see. That said, I have the SC600 Fd III Plus and it lists lowest at .18 and it's pretty low. I leave it on on my nightstand and it's not too intrusive. It's about the same as moon on my SC63w (ZL Lists .01). It's not as low as my SC52w but still low enough for me. 

So, ZL shows some some pretty different numbers on moon modes, but in my lights, they are all low enough to leave on at night (for me.)


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## gunga (Nov 17, 2017)

Yep. I remember that moonlight mode numbers are not always accurate. That said, I have enough lights to wait for initial reviews.


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## typevii (Nov 17, 2017)

JStraus said:


> Yes I will wait to see. That said, I have the SC600 Fd III Plus and it lists lowest at .18 and it's pretty low. I leave it on on my nightstand and it's not too intrusive. It's about the same as moon on my SC63w (ZL Lists .01). It's not as low as my SC52w but still low enough for me.
> 
> So, ZL shows some some pretty different numbers on moon modes, but in my lights, they are all low enough to leave on at night (for me.)



I find the .18 low of my SC600Fd III Plus way too bright to use as a moonlight mode. Compared to the 0.01 of my H602w it is just too bright. 

So here is another vote for keeping a true moonlight ultra low mode option.


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## ingokl (Nov 17, 2017)

Did you already write them? I am not a fan of whining and bothering manufacturers... but as ZL always has been quite supportive and listening to customers I think the more users write them asking for the option of really low low modes the higher is the chance they might change it (perhaps even over the whole range of lights in the long run).
I admit beeing a bit egoistic... I just want the SC64c with sub 0.1 lumen levels .


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## Cobraman502 (Nov 17, 2017)

I requested ZL to cancel my order for sc64C based on the “moonlight gate”


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## Glock27 (Nov 17, 2017)

I didn't cancel my pre-order, but I messaged them about wanting a lower moonlight mode available. I think it should be programmable....if you don't want a low moonlight mode, don't program it...but I do!


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## terjee (Nov 17, 2017)

Just heard back: “We'll release a new set of brightness levels later today.”


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## Tixx (Nov 17, 2017)

Asked about the moonlight:

"We'll release a new set of brightness levels later today" ~ Zebralight


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## Tachead (Nov 17, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> I requested ZL to cancel my order for sc64C based on the “moonlight gate”



I prefer a very low moonlight mode too and hope it still end up lower but, you have to remember that even 0.12 is still way lower then most other companies moonlight modes(Olight's lowest moonlight mode is 0.5 lumens for instance). Plus, ZL is still revising the modes and will release a new set for the SC64c later today. It might still change to a lower low so, you may have jumped the gun on cancelling your order. These are just some of the risks with pre-ordering a product. Until it ships, anything can change. If you want to know exactly what all aspects of a light will be, you have to wait until its released and the reviews start flowing.


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## Tachead (Nov 17, 2017)

There, they just changed it to 0.05 lumens. That's quite a bit better. Thanks ZL:thumbsup:.


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## markr6 (Nov 17, 2017)

0.05lm on the SC64c. Sounds good to me.


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## ingokl (Nov 17, 2017)

Our moaning helped ).


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## Glock27 (Nov 17, 2017)

w00T! Thanks for listening Zebralight! 
Gunga can pre-order again!


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## Cobraman502 (Nov 17, 2017)

Tachead said:


> I prefer a very low moonlight mode too and hope it still end up lower but, you have to remember that even 0.12 is still way lower then most other companies moonlight modes(Olight's lowest moonlight mode is 0.5 lumens for instance). Plus, ZL is still revising the modes and will release a new set for the SC64c later today. It might still change to a lower low so, you may have jumped the gun on cancelling your order. These are just some of the risks with pre-ordering a product. Until it ships, anything can change. If you want to know exactly what all aspects of a light will be, you have to wait until its released and the reviews start flowing.



Yeah you probably right however I have been happy with my convoy S2+ with the 18350 or 18650 bodies. The moonlight is as low as the Zebralight. It’s also potted like the ZL so for now I’m good.


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## Tachead (Nov 17, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> Yeah you probably right however I have been happy with my convoy S2+ with the 18350 or 18650 bodies. The moonlight is as low as the Zebralight. It’s also potted like the ZL so for now I’m good.



Oh, I didn't know they made a potted version of the S2+ with a super low moonlight. Is yours custom built? 

I can't remember if you have owned a ZL before or not but, if not, you should know there is a pretty large difference between a ZL and a Convoy. There is a reason the SC64 is 6 times the price. It's like comparing a Kia to a Ferrari really. The SC64 has a far more advanced and efficient driver, has a better fit and finish, is made of better quality aluminum, has much tougher anodization, is way smaller and lighter(almost half as light as the Convoy with 18350 tube on it and almost as short), and has great warranty and after warranty support. I am glad you are happy with your Convoy but, you should really try a ZL one day. Going from a budget light to a premium light is a nice treat imo:thumbsup:.


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## Cobraman502 (Nov 17, 2017)

I requested ZL to cancel my order for sc64C based on the “moonlight gate”

Yeah I have 2 Zebralights. The Convoy was built custom from Randy over at PflexPro, he does some great work. My convoy cost the same as the Zebralight given the driver is the h17f. Randy makes a SWEET switch bypass that’s not just a blob of solder. He does some work on the switch internals to make them butter smooth also. PflexPro does warranty for life. I also added a magnet to the rear that has helped me countless times.


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## Tachead (Nov 17, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> I requested ZL to cancel my order for sc64C based on the “moonlight gate”
> 
> Yeah I have 2 Zebralights. The Convoy was built custom from Randy over at PflexPro, he does some great work. My convoy cost the same as the Zebralight given the driver is the h17f. Randy makes a SWEET switch bypass that’s not just a blob of solder. He does some work on the switch internals to make them butter smooth also. PflexPro does warranty for life. I also added a magnet to the rear that has helped me countless times.



Ah right, I always forget about PflexPro(I am not really into the budget light stuff anymore). Sounds like a descent light. But, lets get back to the SC64c. 13 days to go.


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## gunga (Nov 17, 2017)

I'll wait. I'm drifting into spinners now so I'll just wait for reports back on the new model.


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## gunga (Nov 17, 2017)

I'll wait. I'm drifting into spinners now so I'll just wait for reports back on the new model. 

View attachment 6473


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## Tachead (Nov 17, 2017)

Lots of people seem to be getting into those. I really don't get the appeal? Seems like an item that does nothing but spin would get old real fast. And, the price of some of them:huh:.


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## gunga (Nov 17, 2017)

I cannot explain. You have to try a good one and see.


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## joelbnyc (Nov 23, 2017)

Happy thxgiving to other stateside cpf-ers.

I preordered an SC64c today, my first ZL.

I looked through the SC5c Mark II thread, and I prefer the XP-L2 4000K easywhite 93+ shot over the SC600w XHP35 4500K in markr6's children's toy beamshot comparison lineup.

To my eye, the 4000K easywhite shows richer, warmer yellows in the train engine body. It looks closer to the Nichia 219B 4000K, except no rosy tint. It's probably the warmer 4000K temp I'm preferring in addition to higher CRI.

I'll take my chances with 2-step binning:

Cree Easywhite Regions (2 step is blue diamond)





Ansi White 4000K Quadrangle (red dotted diamond bisected by 4000K line corresponds to similar black parallelogram above).





Easywhite 4000K cree 2 step region appears to be the halves of 5B4 and 5C1 closest to 4000K. Its not in the <BBL A/D regions, but still a very small area close to BBL. Should be great for why I'm buying this- mostly indoor use at night, compact, great build quality.


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## markr6 (Nov 24, 2017)

joelbnyc said:


> I looked through the SC5c Mark II thread, and I prefer the XP-L2 4000K easywhite 93+ shot over the SC600w XHP35 4500K in markr6's children's toy beamshot comparison lineup.
> 
> To my eye, the 4000K easywhite shows richer, warmer yellows in the train engine body. It looks closer to the Nichia 219B 4000K, except no rosy tint. It's probably the warmer 4000K temp I'm preferring in addition to higher CRI.



Edited, nevermind. Mixed this up with another light. Can't keep these things straight anymore.


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## csice (Dec 4, 2017)

Anyone get their sc64c? Ordered mine mid November and they told me it won't ship for 4 weeks.


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## Tachead (Dec 4, 2017)

csice said:


> Anyone get their sc64c? Ordered mine mid November and they told me it won't ship for 4 weeks.


I don't think they are done production yet. I think we are looking at another week or two before they start shipping.


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## Nichia! (Dec 6, 2017)

Anyone know if they change the old clip?


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## markr6 (Dec 6, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> Anyone know if they change the old clip?



Someone said they got their light and it was the big black one. I hate those. And unfortunately you cannot buy the old one. There are some other options on ebay and such, but they just get uglier and bigger. I don't understand that.


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## Nichia! (Dec 6, 2017)

markr6 said:


> Someone said they got their light and it was the big black one. I hate those. And unfortunately you cannot buy the old one. There are some other options on ebay and such, but they just get uglier and bigger. I don't understand that.




Yes %100 am with you. I hate the new black the old ones is perfect


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## Tachead (Dec 6, 2017)

markr6 said:


> Someone said they got their light and it was the big black one. I hate those. And unfortunately you cannot buy the old one. There are some other options on ebay and such, but they just get uglier and bigger. I don't understand that.



I think they changed the design because of complaints about the old one being a bit flimsy and not having enough retention. It was a bit too thin imo. I can't say which I personally like better however as I have not tried them both yet. But, personally I much prefer a black clip over a silver one as it is much more discrete.


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## markr6 (Dec 6, 2017)

The black one sure is tight! But it's wider, kinda sharp and ugly with all the holes.


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## Glock27 (Dec 6, 2017)

I've carried an SC6Xw going on 6 years. Clip retention has Never been a problem for me. I snagged the clip a time or two and bent it getting out of a safety harness, but the new design won't cure those instances.
I have an SC6Xw clipped in my left side pocket literally any time I'm dressed. 
I'm in charge of keeping the HVAC/Building Management systems in 8 buildings. I deploy and re-pocket my light lots!
I Pre-ordered the SC60w and every variant since (except CW). Within 48 hours I deemed the SC60 "The Greatest Production EDC 18650 Light Ever" and quickly orderd a spare in case I lost my first one. The 62 was a huge step forward. Took over the Crown! I think I still have 3 in reserve! Much better output, smaller, lighter and more efficient. The 63 was a further step forward. Took over the Crown! More output, lighter, better body with the smooth section in the middle.....and then we come to the 64. More Pogo Pins, probably better bin and maybe firmware, but much much worse clip. If you include the "new" clip in the equation, the 64 is a step backward. Not worth the $$ to upgrade. If you order an older model of light from them, better make sure they don't come with the new clip. 
I messaged them about adding a few of the old clips to one of my Pre-Orders and got "It's no longer available as an accessory." response.
​The original clip design is elegant. The "new" one looks cheap and clunky like what would be on a $4 bang good knockoff. The new clip snags the pocket both deploying and holstering. 

G27
Just in case I wasn;t clear....I think the New SC Clips Suck......big time.


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## Lucky Duck (Dec 6, 2017)

Come on Glock27 tell us how you REALLY feel about these new SC pocket clips! No holding back now!!


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## Tachead (Dec 6, 2017)

I don't know, I don't mind the look of the new clip. The three holes match the three grooves near the tailcap and black is definitely my preference and far more discrete when carried(unless you wear shiny silver pants that is lol). I also like how it looks like thicker gauge metal and think strong retention is a good thing as I hate losing lights and am very active. The old one reminds me of an Eagletac clip like on the D25 Series and they are not great imo. I will also say that any clip that bends is too thin and not properly tempered.

I haven't tried the new clip yet but, I hope I like it. I will post what I think when I get mine.


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## Glock27 (Dec 6, 2017)

The old style doesn't have a retention problem. I have carried one every day all day (except sleeping) since available. I reject that premise. We need thickier steel to support a 1.3 oz light? I reject that too! ;-) 
New style is much harder deploy and re-pocket. I wouldn't mind a DLC coated old style! I'd buy a bunch.

G27


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## markr6 (Dec 6, 2017)

Glock27 said:


> I've carried an SC6Xw going on 6 years. Clip retention has Never been a problem for me. I snagged the clip a time or two and bent it getting out of a safety harness, but the new design won't cure those instances.
> I have an SC6Xw clipped in my left side pocket literally any time I'm dressed.
> I'm in charge of keeping the HVAC/Building Management systems in 8 buildings. I deploy and re-pocket my light lots!
> I Pre-ordered the SC60w and every variant since (except CW). Within 48 hours I deemed the SC60 "The Greatest Production EDC 18650 Light Ever" and quickly orderd a spare in case I lost my first one. The 62 was a huge step forward. Took over the Crown! I think I still have 3 in reserve! Much better output, smaller, lighter and more efficient. The 63 was a further step forward. Took over the Crown! More output, lighter, better body with the smooth section in the middle.....and then we come to the 64. More Pogo Pins, probably better bin and maybe firmware, but much much worse clip. If you include the "new" clip in the equation, the 64 is a step backward. Not worth the $$ to upgrade. If you order an older model of light from them, better make sure they don't come with the new clip.
> ...



Re-quoting this whole thing because it deserves it. Spot on!

I also asked about getting some old clips - you know they have a big box somewhere. No go.


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## Tachead (Dec 6, 2017)

Glock27 said:


> The old style doesn't have a retention problem. I have carried one every day all day (except sleeping) since available. I reject that premise. We need thickier steel to support a 1.3 oz light? I reject that too! ;-)
> New style is much harder deploy and re-pocket. I wouldn't mind a DLC coated old style! I'd buy a bunch.
> 
> G27



Well, this is a subjective topic and we all have our own preferences and uses for a light but, for me more retention isn't a bad thing. I prefer a clip to be fairly hard to deploy and re-pocket. That just means it won't come unclipped easily when it gets caught on something. It will also be safer on thin pants or shorts. The last thing I need is my light flying off when I am out in the boat or rock climbing for instance. You said you bent a couple, that means it is too thin and/or not tempered properly imo. A good clip won't bend. Eagletac clips bend and that's why I don't like them. They use a skeletonized clip similar to the old stock ZL one. 

My H502c L2 came with a DLC or similar coating. It is a nice colour, kind of like a black chrome. It would be cool if the new clip came with that coating too as an option.

I hope I like this new clip. I don't see why they don't just keep both in stock to keep everyone happy and give customers an option.


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## Glock27 (Dec 6, 2017)

The only time I bent a clip was when I was squeezing out of a harness. It didn't bend because it was week. Picture a 1" Nylon tape sliding up the front of you, and it would catch both my Light & Knife. I bent my Spyderco clips more often than Zebralights. Under those circumstances, the new clip would fare no better.
I equally value deploy and re-pocket ease. If any of your older style clips don't grip tight enough, you can take them off and bend them.

G27


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## ingokl (Dec 7, 2017)

markr6 said:


> Re-quoting this whole thing because it deserves it. Spot on! I also asked about getting some old clips - you know they have a big box somewhere. No go.


 If you dislike the new clip that much... perhaps it makes sense for you to organize an omnibus order (is that really a common phrase?)?! NKON seems to have the old clip available and there is a special website for non-EU residents with prices excluding VAT. https://ru.nkon.nl/


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## markr6 (Dec 7, 2017)

ingokl said:


> If you dislike the new clip that much... perhaps it makes sense for you to organize an omnibus order (is that really a common phrase?)?! NKON seems to have the old clip available and there is a special website for non-EU residents with prices excluding VAT. https://ru.nkon.nl/



THANK YOU!!!!!! I looked everywhere and couldn't find these. I begged Zebralight for some, but they said no. I just picked up 3 for $12.97 USD shipped to "future proof" my new Zebralights.


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## Tachead (Dec 7, 2017)

markr6 said:


> THANK YOU!!!!!! I looked everywhere and couldn't find these. I begged Zebralight for some, but they said no. I just picked up 3 for $12.97 USD shipped to "future proof" my new Zebralights.



I just ordered 3 as well just in case I don't like the new style clips. Might as well get some while there still available. Thanks Ingold:thumbsup:.


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## markr6 (Dec 7, 2017)

Tachead said:


> I just ordered 3 as well just in case I don't like the new style clips. Might as well get some while there still available. Thanks Ingold:thumbsup:.



I briefly had the SC5w II with the new clip. I didn't like it at all and was part of the reason for selling.

The black one does fit tightly though and it looks somewhat tacticool. So one would have no problem keeping it in their camo MOLLE pack while recording a "(fill in the blank) Survival" youtube video. Maybe whilst boiling some water using a wood stove. Wearing mostly wool attire.


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## Tachead (Dec 7, 2017)

markr6 said:


> I briefly had the SC5w II with the new clip. I didn't like it at all and was part of the reason for selling.
> 
> The black one does fit tightly though and it looks somewhat tacticool. So one would have no problem keeping it in their camo MOLLE pack while recording a "(fill in the blank) Survival" youtube video. Maybe whilst boiling some water using a wood stove. Wearing mostly wool attire.



I don't know if I will like the new one or not until I get it to try. I like that it's black and don't mind the looks but, the function is the unknown. The old ones may never be available again so, it was worth the few bucks to me to grab some just to be safe. Now I have options.

Lol.


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## markr6 (Dec 7, 2017)

I did a video on the new clip, but recently deleted it from youtube. I hate when I do "cleanup" like that! I wanted to revisit my thoughts on that since I forget what it was about.


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## terjee (Dec 8, 2017)

Just got shipping notification for an SC64c (China to Norway).


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## hatman (Dec 8, 2017)

ingokl said:


> If you dislike the new clip that much... perhaps it makes sense for you to organize an omnibus order (is that really a common phrase?)?! NKON seems to have the old clip available and there is a special website for non-EU residents with prices excluding VAT. https://ru.nkon.nl
> A few questions, please:
> 
> First, where are posters seeing photos of the new clip that you don't like?
> ...


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## ingokl (Dec 8, 2017)

I am fine with the new clip (probably, have to see and use it in real life).
Two members here complained about it (talking about the "small" SCxx series with screwed on clip, not the SC600 series with its completely different clip attachment).
You can see the new clip in the accessories on the ZL site.
The "special" site is the site I mentioned: https://ru.nkon.nl. There all prices exclude the VAT as opposed to their "normal" site https://eu.nkon.nl
And there you choose the SC clip.


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## hatman (Dec 8, 2017)

Thank you, ingokl!


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## tompen41 (Dec 9, 2017)

Just received my SC64w lV today Order # 10376154 First impressions, the reflector is slightly different than the SC63w, it is a little more dimpled and not quite as smooth as the SC63w. Anodizing is identical on both. 5 pogo pins in the front instead of the 3 of the SC63, both have spring in tailcap. Obvious difference in lumens when you first turn them on. SC64 much brighter. Second difference and I don't understand why, the SC63 heats up faster on Hi than the SC64 and both using the red GA batteries from ZL. In a little over a minute the 63 gets uncomfortable to hold and the 64 can go another 30 to 45 seconds before it gets to the same temp. And the 64 is 300 lumens more! Clip is different but I don't find it a problem, however I did order 3 of the old style chrome clips as referenced earlier in this thread. I think I do like the old one better. Light here now can't wait to check in dark. There seems to be a slight difference in the hotspot diameter even though they are listed as 80 and 12 degrees.

Another observation: The hot spot on the SC64w is smaller and spill is smaller also than the SC63w even though the specs say 80 and 12 for both, the SC64 hot spot is definitely a little smaller which would mean it throws a little farther.


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## Tachead (Dec 9, 2017)

tompen41 said:


> Just received my SC64w lV today Order # 10376154 First impressions, the reflector is slightly different than the SC63w, it is a little more dimpled and not quite as smooth as the SC63w. Anodizing is identical on both. 5 pogo pins in the front instead of the 3 of the SC63, both have spring in tailcap. Obvious difference in lumens when you first turn them on. SC64 much brighter. Second difference and I don't understand why, the SC63 heats up faster on Hi than the SC64 and both using the red GA batteries from ZL. In a little over a minute the 63 gets uncomfortable to hold and the 64 can go another 30 to 45 seconds before it gets to the same temp. And the 64 is 300 lumens more! Clip is different but I don't find it a problem, however I did order 3 of the old style chrome clips as referenced earlier in this thread. I think I do like the old one better. Light here now can't wait to check in dark. There seems to be a slight difference in the hotspot diameter even though they are listed as 80 and 12 degrees.



Awesome, glad you like it. Thanks for all the details and impressions.

The SC63w likely gets hot faster because the new driver in the SC64w is quite a bit more efficient.

Could the difference in the hotspot just be because of the heavier OP on the reflector?

I grabbed a few of the old clips too while they are still available. I am not sure which I will like better but, now I have options.


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## markr6 (Dec 9, 2017)

I was going to stay content with the SC63w, but I think you talked me into the 64w. It's only a matter if time...


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## hatman (Dec 9, 2017)

Pardon me if I have missed it, but has anyone been able to compare yet the 64c and 64w?


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## Tachead (Dec 9, 2017)

hatman said:


> Pardon me if I have missed it, but has anyone been able to compare yet the 64c and 64w?


No one has a SC64c yet. As far as I know, only one person has reported getting a shipping notice and that was just on Friday.

If you are looking for a comparison though, the SC64c uses the same emitter as the SC5c MKII, SC53c, and H53c. And, the SC64w uses the same emitter as many other ZL models(XHP35).


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## JStraus (Dec 13, 2017)

I just got a shipping confirmation for the faster shipping.

Ordered 11/01/17.

Looking forward to it!


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## Tachead (Dec 13, 2017)

My SC64c will be here tomorrow or Friday. Can't wait to check it out☺️.


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## Glock27 (Dec 13, 2017)

I blundered by putting a 64c and 604c on one order. 11/3/2017 #10376146
Shoulda' split them up!

G27


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## Tachead (Dec 13, 2017)

Glock27 said:


> I blundered by putting a 64c and 604c on one order. 11/3/2017 #10376146
> Shoulda' split them up!
> 
> G27


I did the same but, with the Plus and the 64c. I would have had the Plus two weeks ago if I had split them up. Oh well, now I get double the fun when they get here and saved on shipping.


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## trakcon (Dec 16, 2017)

I found a review here with some photos:
http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=38002


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## evil_twin (Dec 16, 2017)

The Russian-speaking forum appeared sc64c review. Perhaps someone will be interested in reading.
http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=38002


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## Tachead (Dec 16, 2017)

Well, DHL s**t the bed and my package got delayed(it was supposed to be here Friday at the latest). I will have it on Monday for sure though and will post some pics and my impressions.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 16, 2017)

Has anyone tried a Samsung 30Q battery in the SC64? I'm presuming that the flat tops should be fine... anyone know for sure? What about the button-top variant of the 30Q? It's a pretty flat button-top, but will it work with the pogo pins?


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## ven (Dec 16, 2017)

I have the sc63w WITL and it works fine with flat top sony vtc5 and vtc6, also 30Q. All mine are flat tops though.................

Not tried a high drain button, can do though and see if it fits.........No! Flat top only, just tried a vtc6 button top and cap will not screw down enough for contact(pretty much knew this but made sure 100% as never tried it)

What works that i know, sanyo GA, sony vtc5, vtc5a,vtc6,samsung 25r and 30q all flat top.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 16, 2017)

ven said:


> I have the sc63w WITL and it works fine with flat top sony vtc5 and vtc6, also 30Q. All mine are flat tops though.................
> 
> Not tried a high drain button, can do though and see if it fits.........No! Flat top only, just tried a vtc6 button top and cap will not screw down enough for contact(pretty much knew this but made sure 100% as never tried it)
> 
> What works that i know, sanyo GA, sony vtc5, vtc5a,vtc6,samsung 25r and 30q all flat top.



Thanks. Does the SC64 use the same tolerances as the SC63? I think I read they changed the pogo pin arrangement, so I'm wondering if they changed length tolerances.

I know the easy solution is to buy the recommended cell, but I'm in Canada and getting any kind of lithium-ion cell shipped here is almost impossible now. So, I'm stuck using my existing cells.


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## ven (Dec 16, 2017)

As far as i know, its pretty much the same other than pogo amount. If they changed spec it could cause issues with the use of 8a minimum cells. 

I like what ZL has done tbh, most of my cells are high drain flat tops anyway. Keeps things simple(like me), the sc62d i have uses a naked pany B cell for now. I just dont use protected cells these days unless i have no choice(need the extra few mm for contact). 

The recommendation afaik is still the sanyo GA, so specs must be the same WITL


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## joelbnyc (Dec 16, 2017)

evil_twin said:


> The Russian-speaking forum appeared sc64c review. Perhaps someone will be interested in reading.
> http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=38002



Worth it for the Russian-to-English Site Translation alone:

'Glass without enlightenment.
I've been looking for it for a long time, but without results...
Maybe I was looking for nothing.'

'You so calmly switch to yourself a mode, you knop. .and here it's the jerking off of the Hi mode ... and even if in the room, you generally remember the creators of the Zebra flashlight.'

And this is a creative dimension reference:







But seriously, looks nice.


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## noboneshotdog (Dec 16, 2017)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Has anyone tried a Samsung 30Q battery in the SC64? I'm presuming that the flat tops should be fine... anyone know for sure? What about the button-top variant of the 30Q? It's a pretty flat button-top, but will it work with the pogo pins?



I have the SC600MKIV HI, which is different, and 30Q button top does not work.


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## Tachead (Dec 16, 2017)

Yep, the only ZL 18650 lights that will fit button tops are the H600 series and the old flashlight models(SC62 series SC600 MKI & II). 

All this info is in the lights specifications guys...

Battery: One 18650 size (i.e. unprotected, 65.0-65.2 mm long) 3.6-4.35V li-ion rechargeable. Batteries are not included in the package.


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## evil_twin (Dec 17, 2017)

joelbnyc said:


> And this is a creative dimension reference
> But seriously, looks nice.


My rubber product becomes popular  Just this thing everyone knows.
The flashlight is wonderful, the OP reflector gives a pleasant light that does not blind. In contrast to the Fenix E35 UE on the same modes. 
I changed the interface to H1,H2 and installed L1,L2 for a short click and now I'm not bothered by flashes when I try to check the battery charge or when I turn on medium modes by double click.
Yes, this is my review. If you have any questions, I'll try to answer via google-translator, sorry.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 17, 2017)

Tachead said:


> All this info is in the lights specifications guys...
> 
> Battery: One 18650 size (i.e. unprotected, 65.0-65.2 mm long) 3.6-4.35V li-ion rechargeable. Batteries are not included in the package.



Yes, but that's a very tight specification. It would be nice if ZL listed a few more common batteries, other than just the Panasonic GA. And if you look at the specsheet for the Panasonic NCR18650GA cell, it lists a maximum length of 65.3mm. Which is longer than Zebralight's spec!

The Samsung 30Q lists a range of 64.7mm - 65.0 mm. So, will that be too short?!?

There's a tail-spring on the SC64, right? So, if cells are slightly below 65.0mm, they should still work?

I think Zebralight's range of 65.0mm - 65.2mm is likely too conservative, since 18650 cells likely don't have that tight a manufacturing tolerance. I just want to make sure, but I'll go ahead and place my order because it sounds like it should fit 30Q's.


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## Keitho (Dec 17, 2017)

Very excited, my SC64c is finally in the same city as me; ordered 31 Oct, normal delivery option (not expedited), Denver, CO USA area. Maybe in my hands for some high CRI fun in the next night or two...:rock:


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## csice (Dec 17, 2017)

I keep seeing pictures of the sc64c with the old chrome pocket clip. It better have the new black one because I asked them about it and they said it came with the new one.


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## JStraus (Dec 18, 2017)

I got my 64c on Saturday and it has a silver clip, FWIW.

And I like the light a lot. I sold off a 63w to 'upgrade' to this. It has color pretty much exactly the same as my SC5c II, but a broader and less defined hotspot. My 63w had a small dip in brightness at the center of the hotspot, but I would not call it doughnut-holed. The 64c has a very even hotspot.

The moon mode is just a bit higher on it's lowest setting than the SC5c II.



csice said:


> I keep seeing pictures of the sc64c with the old chrome pocket clip. It better have the new black one because I asked them about it and they said it came with the new one.


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## Tachead (Dec 18, 2017)

Well, I just received my SC64c. Here are some quick first impressions...

It came with the new style black clip and it works well. Anodizing is perfect and a bit darker and more shiny then earlier lights. Everything seems to work great mode wise. Emitter is perfectly centered. Beam shape/profile is nice and great for an all around EDC role. First impression of the tint and tint consistency across beam on my sample - not great but, descent(as expected with the new fully phosphor coated emitters). It is definitely yellowish compared to a 4000K Nichia 219B(SW40 R9050). The hotspot is descent(slightly rosey on the higher modes), the corona is a stronger yellow with maybe just a very slight hint of green, and the spill is slightly magenta/purplish(likely due to the AR coating ZL uses). It has the standard Cree rainbow produced by a reflector light with AR coated glass. Colour rendering is good and noticeable better then the 80+ CRI Plus. Heat wise it seems very good and takes a long time to get hot even on H1.

Overall, it is a nice light and is smaller then I expected. I will post some further impressions and more detailed info once I put it through its paces a bit. I also plan to post some beam shots(including a comparison to a 4000K Nichia 219B) and a runtime/output graph on H1 when I get a chance.


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## Tachead (Dec 18, 2017)

Here is a quick and dirty comparison of the SC64c to a Nichia 219B SW40(4000K) R9050 against a white ceiling...

SC64c Left / Nichia 219B Right


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## NPL (Dec 18, 2017)

Sc64c looks very similar to my h53c. Light is a little yellow, with stronger Corona, and not as perfect as the Nichia, but still really nice in real world use with fantastic color rendition.


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## Bob_McBob (Dec 19, 2017)

It looks a lot better than my SC63w, which was hand picked by nkon after I returned the first one.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 19, 2017)

Bob_McBob said:


> It looks a lot better than my SC63w, which was hand picked by nkon after I returned the first one.



The "w" versions of Zebralights have always been a tint lottery. I thought the "c" versions would all be good, because isn't that the point of them? You're giving up brightness for better tint.

IMO, I'd rather Zebralight offered a Nichia 219c version, rather than their current "c" offering. But, I've heard that will never happen. I don't understand their rational.


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## markr6 (Dec 19, 2017)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The "w" versions of Zebralights have always been a tint lottery. I thought the "c" versions would all be good, because isn't that the point of them? You're giving up brightness for better tint.
> 
> IMO, I'd rather Zebralight offered a Nichia 219c version, rather than their current "c" offering. But, I've heard that will never happen. I don't understand their rational.



It's too bad. They mentioned "sourcing issues" on the Nichias a few times. Looking at the photo above, I just don't want anything but the Nichia. I didn't like my SC5c, so I guess I'll play the lotto with the SC64w if I decide to update my SC63w.


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## Tachead (Dec 19, 2017)

NPL said:


> Sc64c looks very similar to my h53c. Light is a little yellow, with stronger Corona, and not as perfect as the Nichia, but still really nice in real world use with fantastic color rendition.



Yep, same emitter. I totally agree. After using it a bit last night I really like it. Nichia still offers a more even beam and a better chance of roseyness(if that is what you like) but, they do have their downsides too and would not offer the same performance in this light.


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## Tachead (Dec 19, 2017)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The "w" versions of Zebralights have always been a tint lottery. I thought the "c" versions would all be good, because isn't that the point of them? You're giving up brightness for better tint.
> 
> IMO, I'd rather Zebralight offered a Nichia 219c version, rather than their current "c" offering. But, I've heard that will never happen. I don't understand their rational.



The c models are about 4000K CCT and higher CRI mainly but, they generally have tighter binning as well. These XP-L2's they are using are very tightly binned so there will be very little variation between samples but, most of the bin falls above the BBL so if roseyness is your thing you might want to look else where.

The 219C's generally fall above the BBL too, although not as far, so they will be yellowish too(although less yellow on average). They do have a much more even tint across the beam though. It is a trade off really. If they had used the 219C in this there would have been some major downsides as it is a much less efficient emitter. For starters, the max output would have been quite a bit lower. Second, the light would have heated up quicker which means a faster and more aggressive PID stepdown on the higher modes. And finally, the runtimes would be shorter on all modes. 

I too would like to see a Nichia powered ZL one day(a 144a sm*03 R9080 version would be awesome) but, until that happens I am good with this. After using this light a bunch last night I am very happy with it. The tint is quite nice at night(especially with dark adapted eyes) and the hotspot gets more and more rosey the higher you turn it. The heat generation is impressive too. Honestly, I think ZL could have pushed it harder on H1. It takes quite a while to warm up on H1(I will post a runtime/output graph to show this). It sure seams to heat up much slower them my H600's.


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## ingokl (Dec 19, 2017)

If I remember the data sheet of the 219c correctly it is not less efficient than the XP-L2 but just has a much lower maximum power and output.

Edit: 
The 219c with an CRI of 93 emits around 250 lumen at 2,1 Watt. That's about 120 lumen per Watt.
An average bin XP-L2 high CRI LED offers 360 lumen at 3,1 Watt. That's around the same 120 lumen per Watt. 
Given the fact, that efficiency decreases with increasing power, at the same lumen level the Nichia will be less efficient than the Cree. But the difference won't be very high. 
The main difference between the two is the maximum rated power which is more than 9 Watt for the Cree and 'only' 5.5 Watt for the Nichia. So the Cree can be driven almost 70% harder.


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## The_Driver (Dec 19, 2017)

ingokl said:


> If I remember the data sheet of the 219c correctly it is not less efficient than the XP-L2 but just has a much lower maximum power and output.
> 
> Edit:
> The 219c with an CRI of 93 emits around 250 lumen at 2,1 Watt. That's about 120 lumen per Watt.
> ...



I compared these LEDs at higher power levels here. 



> at 5A and 85°C the XP-L2 U6 (4000K 90CRI) will do 1292 – 1370 lumens (to understand this one has to know that Cree lists just the minimum values in the PCT tool and that Bins are usually 6% apart). That’s really not too bad for a high-cri LED. The Nichia 219C R9050 in D240 bin does 893-968lm in the same conditions(I used the same way of calculation, but used 1A instead of 3A as the baseline since that is still within Nichias official limits). So now the XP-L2 is actually around 43% brighter at 5A and 85°C. That’s definitely a noteworthy difference.I also calculated the efficiency of both LEDs. The XP-L2 does 75-79 lm/W at the above current and temperature. The Nichia does 55-59lm/W.
> For me the biggest advantage is actually the larger DIE size and correspondingly larger hotspot, especially in compact lights like my headlamp. Except for the Nichia 144A (only 6V and 12V) all the nice high-cri LEDs from Nichia, Osram and Lumileds have either a small DIE or are not available in neutral white.



Here (it's in German) I talk about a modded light where I have switched from XP-L 80CRI to Nichia 219C 80CRi to 219C 90CRI to XP-L2 90CRI. The XP-L2 is noticebly brighter compared to the 219C at 4.6A. 

If you want to improve the tint of this light, just add a Lee Zircon minus-green filter. The Zircon filters can tolerate the heat of this light moreso than normal filters.


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## ingokl (Dec 20, 2017)

At 5A you are quite overdriving the Nichia. Even if that might be ok with proper cooling... Zebralight generally does not operate their LED above max specification (if I understand their philosophy correctly). So in a 'real world' ZL the 219c would be driven with around 5 Watt on max level and the Cree with more than 9 Watt (like it is the case in the current SC64c). And within this range (at least according to the datasheets) the efficiency difference between both is much lower. Did you also compare the LED at lower levels around 1 to 2 A?
How much larger is the die size of the 219c?


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## The_Driver (Dec 20, 2017)

ingokl said:


> At 5A you are quite overdriving the Nichia. Even if that might be ok with proper cooling... Zebralight generally does not operate their LED above max specification (if I understand their philosophy correctly). So in a 'real world' ZL the 219c would be driven with around 5 Watt on max level and the Cree with more than 9 Watt (like it is the case in the current SC64c). And within this range (at least according to the datasheets) the efficiency difference between both is much lower. Did you also compare the LED at lower levels around 1 to 2 A?
> How much larger is the die size of the 219c?



Yes, they don't. Generally that is a good thing for their edc type lights because, as you have noted, efficiency stays high.

I don't think it makes sense to compare the efficiency of the LEDs at different power levels though. A lower power levels the 219C comes closer to the XP-L2, that's for sure.

The 219C has a smaller die compared to the XP-L2, around 2.2mm^2 vs 3.55mm^2. The hotspot size directly correlates to this (do note though that optically speaking the domes on the LEDs double the apparant die sizes).

Maybe I will calculate more values for lower currents later, it's a lot of work actually.


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## ingokl (Dec 20, 2017)

Thank you! Just to avoid a misunderstanding. I did not mean to compare the two LED at different power levels but at the same power level for each (just a lower one within the spec of both). 
But I think you don't need to invest too much time into this. Apparently we agree that (within typical ZL lumen/power levels) the efficiency of the 219c and the XP-L2 will be very similar. 
What I find more interesting is your information about the die size. In a similar reflector the Nichia will offer much better throw and a smaller hotspot than the Cree. When I changed from my XP-G SC62 to my XM-L2 SC62 I found the larger hotspot much more suitable for general edc tasks. And the huge step in brightness made up for an otherwise lower throw. I am not sure I would really like the beam characteristics of the smaller Nichia (taken even better color rendition aside).


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## The_Driver (Dec 20, 2017)

Yes, I also find the bigger spot to be more practical in such compact lights. 

One thing to note though is that the Nichia 219C will not really throw further when you drive it at 5W and the XP-L2 at 10W. It will be very similar. Driven at the same power it will of course throw further.


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## Ares (Dec 24, 2017)

I received the SC64w and SC64c today. I previously owned the SC63w but lost it. I'm not going to lie, I can barely tell the difference between the SC64w and SC64c. This isn't for lack of trying. I also own the old SC62c and the difference with it (warmer tint and tighter hotspot) is obvious. I'm not sure what's going on. The C is supposed to be 900 lumens and the W is 1400 lumens... but I can't tell them apart inside or outside. It's kind of crazy, and has me wondering if one is a dud.

Don't get me wrong - the tints on both are superb (albeit pretty much identical). I'm generally a tint snob, preferring warmer tints and the highest CRI. Both of these are perfect in my book. The brightness is every bit as good as my old 63w was. Maybe a wee bit brighter. The beam feels "smoother" on both than my 63w did. They're terrific lights. I just can't see any difference between them at all and I'm somewhat surprised. I really wish I had my old SC63w for comparison, but losing it was how I justified this purchase sooooo haha

I even tried shining them both on a very colorful magazine cover with a lot of blues in it - usually I can spot the high CRI light with ease. But nope. Both do an excellent, identical job, from what my eyes can see. Maybe I just got really, really lucky on the W's tint. Or I got really really lucky on the C's brightness. Who knows. I'll probably do a runtime test, and keep whichever lasts the longest on high - and give the other away as a Christmas present. There's really no need for both (and this is coming from the guy who has the SC600w, SC600w MkII, SC600 Fd III Plus, SC62d, SC62c, and used to have the SC63w - yes, I have a problem lol).

Ps. If anybody else has both, could you post a side by side shot of the LEDs? They even look identical to me. I thought one would be smaller or something at least. I swear it says 64w on one and 64c on the other lol

Pps. If you had both, and couldn't tell them apart, which would you keep? I'm leaning towards the C. I swear it really is as bright as the W. I've been playing some more with them and on a white wall, in M1, I can sort of tell the C is warmer. Just barely. Never enough to notice in real world use.


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## ven (Dec 24, 2017)

Ares, although i dont have the sc64c and sc64w, the xhp35 is easy to tell. I do have both the LED's, and there is a very noticeable difference. Switch on its lowest setting, look close at the xhp35 (sc64w)and you should see the 4 dies with the + . The xp-l2 does not have this, also i find them very different, the xp-l2 is towards yellow, the xhp35 if anything would be a little rosy to my eyes.


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## Connor (Dec 24, 2017)

Ares said:


> I received the SC64w and SC64c today. I previously owned the SC63w but lost it. I'm not going to lie, I can barely tell the difference between the SC64w and SC64c. This isn't for lack of trying. I also own the old SC62c and the difference with it (warmer tint and tighter hotspot) is obvious. I'm not sure what's going on. The C is supposed to be 900 lumens and the W is 1400 lumens... but I can't tell them apart inside or outside. It's kind of crazy, and has me wondering if one is a dud.



It's really hard to tell apart relatively small brightness differences because our eyes don't perceive brightness in a linear way. 
Grab your smartphone and an app that shows lux (e.g. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.eclipsim.gpsstatus2 ) and do a "ceiling bounce". 

Both lights @room temperature and on max, same position, don't move the smartphone in between measurements etc. 
The lux meter should see the difference clearly.


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## Ares (Dec 24, 2017)

ven said:


> look close at the xhp35 (sc64w)and you should see the 4 dies with the + . The xp-l2 does not have this.



Ummmmmm... both have four dies? :thinking:












[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]


ven said:


> also i find them very different, the xp-l2 is towards yellow, the xhp35 if anything would be a little rosy to my eyes.


[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I, too, generally find XHP-35 to be a little on the "rosy" side (which I kind of don't like). It's why I had to get the SC64c for comparison. I'll pick a yellow / green tint over a rosy tint any time - even if it means giving up some lumens. But sometimes you win the "tint lottery" and it's not so bad.
[/FONT]
I'm really quite pleased with the tint and brightness from both of them. The problem is, they're identical. I literally can't tell the difference - and that is unlike me haha


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## Ares (Dec 24, 2017)

Have some beam shots. Can you guys spot the difference? I sure can't!


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## Ares (Dec 24, 2017)

Some more beam shot fun as I mess with my flashlights instead of wrapping presents like I should be doing 
















Ps. Merry Christmas Eve, folks! :wave:


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## Bob_McBob (Dec 24, 2017)

This is what an XP-L2 EasyWhite should look like.


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## Zak (Dec 24, 2017)

Ares said:


> I'll pick a yellow / green tint over a rosy tint any time - even if it means giving up some lumens. But sometimes you win the "tint lottery" and it's not so bad.



You may be the first person I've seen express this preference; most people I've seen express a preference either prefer rosy, or strongly insist on pure blackbody white.



Ares said:


> I'm really quite pleased with the tint and brightness from both of them. The problem is, they're identical. I literally can't tell the difference - and that is unlike me haha


I think that's because they *are* identical. I'm 99% sure the XP-L2 Easywhite is not a quad-die emitter and what you have there is an SC64w misbranded as an SC64c. You might want to contact Zebralight and ask about that.


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## jlittle (Dec 24, 2017)

Zak said:


> You may be the first person I've seen express this preference; most people I've seen express a preference either prefer rosy, or strongly insist on pure blackbody white.
> [/FONT]
> I think that's because they *are* identical. I'm 99% sure the XP-L2 Easywhite is not a quad-die emitter and what you have there is an SC64w misbranded as an SC64c. You might want to contact Zebralight and ask about that.



i don’t know how to read any of this but it has a picture :twothumbs

http://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/dsXPL2.pdf


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## Nuppet (Dec 24, 2017)

I have the SC5w (1st gen OP), SC63w and the H53Fc to compare: At a few centimeters distance shining the light at my hand (similar lumens output), the H53Fc has the best colors. Pointing the lights, with increased lumens, at the white (sort of) painted roof it was not so straightforward. 

The SC5w has a nice "white" hotspot degrading to not so nice magenta/purple. The SC63w is more yellow (along with a faint monster purple eye) and is not that different from the H53Fc at distance (with no monster eye).

For me the "hand test" shows the difference most clearly.


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## Ares (Dec 24, 2017)

Bob_McBob said:


> This is what an XP-L2 EasyWhite should look like.


That's definitely not what mine looks like. I think I got a second "w" in "c" clothing, guys!

I sent the pics to ZebraLight. We'll see what they said. I didn't want to pester them about it unless something seemed off after talking to you guys about it. Thanks!




Zak said:


> You may be the first person I've seen express this preference; most people I've seen express a preference either prefer rosy, or strongly insist on pure blackbody white.


Hahaha, I know, I'm weird. I even loved the little SC52w that was so green it hurt lol. My absolute favorite tint was my very first ZebraLight - the SC600w 1st gen. I prefer a white / yellow. Green is pretty good. Rosy / pink / purple bothers me. I mostly use mine outdoors. I like the way the foliage looks under yellow/green tint. Rosy makes it look weird, to my eyes, anyway. Oh well - somebody has to buy the yellow/green ones, right? I even specify it in my "order notes" every time I order from ZebraLight hahaha



Zak said:


> I think that's because they *are* identical. I'm 99% sure the XP-L2 Easywhite is not a quad-die emitter and what you have there is an SC64w misbranded as an SC64c. You might want to contact Zebralight and ask about that.


I was really hoping someone would say that, because I've been thinking it this whole time - I just didn't want to seem crazy hahaha. I was reaaaally looking forward to essentially my SC62c with more lumens and a wider hotspot (that 10 degree spot drives me crazy; I got into ZL for floody, not spot lol).


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## Tachead (Dec 24, 2017)

Ares said:


> Ummmmmm... both have four dies? :thinking:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like ZL made a mistake man. Both of those lights have an XHP35. You need to contact them and have your 64c exchanged. They must have had a mix up and put the wrong emitter in the 64c. That is why they look the same.


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## ven (Dec 24, 2017)

Ares said:


> Ummmmmm... both have four dies? :thinking:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My apologies for the delay in response, all thing Christmas eve have got in the way(sorting stuff that father xmas is leaving lol)

You have xhp35 in both of your zebralights, the sc64c has an xhp35 which is an issue at ZL . I would contact and return that light going off your pics.


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## ven (Dec 24, 2017)

Tac has beat me to it, so a +1 to his post as well.


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## Ares (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, everyone! I've sent the above pics to ZebraLight. I'll let you know what they say! Hope it's just a fluke - else they're likely looking at a bunch of returns after Christmas!


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## ven (Dec 24, 2017)

*beep* happens Ares , i would say a fluke. Worst time of year to be releasing lights imho, combined with more demand than supply. Plus when humans are involved, mistakes do happen...............even to the best of us. Console yourself with the very nice sc64w, bright side it will get more attention instead of being shared with the sc64c(which is a w). Then when sorted in a week or two, you can spend time with that and work out a fav.


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## The_Driver (Dec 24, 2017)

Tachead said:


> Looks like ZL made a mistake man. Both of those lights have an XHP35. You need to contact them and have your 64c exchanged. They must have had a mix up and put the wrong emitter in the 64c. That is why they look the same.



If the light were a Surefire, this misbranded one would be worth a fortune...


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## Zak (Dec 24, 2017)

Zebralight collectors do exist. Where's emarkd?


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## recDNA (Dec 24, 2017)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The "w" versions of Zebralights have always been a tint lottery. I thought the "c" versions would all be good, because isn't that the point of them? You're giving up brightness for better tint.
> 
> IMO, I'd rather Zebralight offered a Nichia 219c version, rather than their current "c" offering. But, I've heard that will never happen. I don't understand their rational.


They can't run the Nichia at absurdly high amperage.


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## Ares (Dec 24, 2017)

recDNA said:


> They can't run the Nichia at absurdly high amperage.


 Yeah, and if you don't understand why, get yourself an Emisar D4 with Nichia 219c's and try to hold onto it for 30 seconds. Literal game of hot potato hahaha

I finally broke down and got another. Went with the XP-G2 S4 5D, 4000K the second time around, and it's a much more usable light. Plus I love the warm tint!


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## Bob_McBob (Dec 24, 2017)

A high CRI Nichia 144A would be an excellent replacement for the XHP35 HD in the SC63w, Zebralight just refuses to use Nichia LEDs.


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## Tachead (Dec 24, 2017)

The great thing about the SC64c is it doesn't heat up crazy fast even on the 900 lumen H1. I will post a runtime graph when I get a chance but, it's definitely better then I thought heat wise. I bet ZL could have pushed it a bit harder really.


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## ven (Dec 25, 2017)

The_Driver said:


> If the light were a Surefire, this misbranded one would be worth a fortune...




:laughing: so true !!!!!




Ares said:


> Yeah, and if you don't understand why, get yourself an Emisar D4 with Nichia 219c's and try to hold onto it for 30 seconds. Literal game of hot potato hahaha
> 
> I finally broke down and got another. Went with the XP-G2 S4 5D, 4000K the second time around, and it's a much more usable light. Plus I love the warm tint!



Very nice , I to enjoy the 4K warm beam of the xp-g2......very easy on the eyes.


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## Zak (Dec 26, 2017)

recDNA said:


> They can't run the Nichia at absurdly high amperage.



A single 219C at the 3.0A or so they must be running the SC64c is absolutely fine and will only generate a modest amount more heat than the XP-L2.

Of course, the 219C's datasheet doesn't say that because Nichia is selling most of their emitters for fixed lighting that's run for many hours a day and needs to meet replacement interval goals that flashlights do not. Nichia recommends 1.8A for longevity, but 3.0A is nowhere near the emitters limits.


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## recDNA (Dec 26, 2017)

Zak said:


> A single 219C at the 3.0A or so they must be running the SC64c is absolutely fine and will only generate a modest amount more heat than the XP-L2.
> 
> Of course, the 219C's datasheet doesn't say that because Nichia is selling most of their emitters for fixed lighting that's run for many hours a day and needs to meet replacement interval goals that flashlights do not. Nichia recommends 1.8A for longevity, but 3.0A is nowhere near the emitters limits.


It's crazy to run at 3 amps imo. 2 amps would be great. Then I could use protected batteries as well. No need for high draw. Even with unprptected cells I prefer 2 amps and a high that holds at that level longer.


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## Tachead (Dec 26, 2017)

Zak said:


> A single 219C at the 3.0A or so they must be running the SC64c is absolutely fine and will only generate a modest amount more heat than the XP-L2.
> 
> Of course, the 219C's datasheet doesn't say that because Nichia is selling most of their emitters for fixed lighting that's run for many hours a day and needs to meet replacement interval goals that flashlights do not. Nichia recommends 1.8A for longevity, but 3.0A is nowhere near the emitters limits.



I think a 219C at 3 amps would generate a lot more then a modest amount more heat then the XP-L2 in this light. 

Zebralight does not overdrive their emitters and stays within the manufactures recommendations. Personally I like this as I want a long lasting flashlight that maintains a high output throughout it's life. If you want an overdriven hot rod then buy an Emisar D4.

The SC64c is very impressive heat wise. Even at it's highest mode(H1 900 lumens) it runs a long time without stepping down much due to heat. 

*Here is a quick 5 minute runtime/output graph...
*
Ambient temperature - 23.8C (No cooling was used and the light was just tailstood in an improvised lightbox)

Battery - Sony VTC6 

Light head temperature at end of test - 45.3C

Graph provided by an Extech HD450 Datalogging Light Meter







As you can see the SC64c barely steps down due to heat in the first 5 minutes even without any active or passive cooling.

When I have more time I will run a longer test to see when, or if, it does step down a significant amount due to heat.


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## Zak (Dec 26, 2017)

recDNA said:


> It's crazy to run at 3 amps imo. 2 amps would be great. Then I could use protected batteries as well. No need for high draw. Even with unprptected cells I prefer 2 amps and a high that holds at that level longer.


You can run it at 2 amps if you want; that's about where the highest H2 option should be.

Most protected 18650s can handle up to about 5A, and some can go considerably higher. Of course, with a boost driver when the battery is low, the battery current will be a bit higher than the emitter current, but it's never going to hit 5A on the battery to deliver [email protected] V.

You can't use protected cells in new straight-body Zebralights because Zebralight wanted to reduce the length.


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## recDNA (Dec 26, 2017)

Zak said:


> You can run it at 2 amps if you want; that's about where the highest H2 option should be.
> 
> Most protected 18650s can handle up to about 5A, and some can go considerably higher. Of course, with a boost driver when the battery is low, the battery current will be a bit higher than the emitter current, but it's never going to hit 5A on the battery to deliver [email protected] V.
> 
> You can't use protected cells in new straight-body Zebralights because Zebralight wanted to reduce the length.


H2 is considerably less however with new programming it may be possible to come close.


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## NPL (Jan 5, 2018)

SC64c is back in stock at Zebralight, but still no runtimes info???


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## hatman (Jan 5, 2018)

Still trying to decide between the 64w and 64c -- any thoughts?


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## Tachead (Jan 5, 2018)

hatman said:


> Still trying to decide between the 64w and 64c -- any thoughts?




I have the "w" arriving early next week and already have the "c" if you can wait.


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## recDNA (Jan 5, 2018)

Does this one crush batteries like the 600?


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## Tachead (Jan 5, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Does this one crush batteries like the 600?



Mine hasn't with normal use but, it will if you drop it on the head(trust me, I tested it). They added more pogo pins to go around the perimeter of the positive terminal though so it should be more resistant. Keep in mind though it is not these lights that are the problem, it is the unprotected flat tops. They were never designed to be used without a button top or PTC added and the positive terminals are very soft and weak. I have crushed them in duel spring lights as well when dropped.


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## recDNA (Jan 5, 2018)

Ya thanks I can't have that.


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## Tachead (Jan 5, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Ya thanks I can't have that.



Then you should only use button top cells and lights that will take them. 

Or, just try not to drop your lights on the head. 

Or, just suck it up and unbend them if they get dented(it is quite simple to do) or buy a new one if it really bothers you for less then $5. It is not like it happens often unless you constantly drop your lights.


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## 1000cri (Jan 5, 2018)

Just got my SC64c, its green and its going back. Colors look much more natural to me with my slightly rosy H600fc mkIII, surprising considering its 3 step 83-85 cri compared to 2 step 93-95 cri. I was hoping this one would look even better. Very disappointed after waiting almost 2 months.


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## hatman (Jan 6, 2018)

1000cri said:


> Just got my SC64c, its green and its going back. Colors look much more natural to me with my slightly rosy H600fc mkIII, surprising considering its 3 step 83-85 cri compared to 2 step 93-95 cri. I was hoping this one would look even better. Very disappointed after waiting almost 2 months.



Damn!


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## Tachead (Jan 6, 2018)

1000cri said:


> Just got my SC64c, its green and its going back. Colors look much more natural to me with my slightly rosy H600fc mkIII, surprising considering its 3 step 83-85 cri compared to 2 step 93-95 cri. I was hoping this one would look even better. Very disappointed after waiting almost 2 months.




The H600Fc MKIII uses a 2-step emitter as well. 

Personally, I definitely like the tint better on my H600Fc as well but, I think the SC64c renders colours quite a bit better. It does sound like you may have got a worse sample then me though(the tint lottery). Mine is more of a light yellow with a bit stronger yellow corona. I would suggest trying it a bit before sending it back. If not compared to another rosey(below the BBL) light, the tint is not that bad imo. In fact, when I wake up in the middle of the night it is quite pleasing. 

Another thing to note is the efficiency and thermal performance of the SC64c is far better then the H600Fc even though it is smaller and more bright. It will run for an amazingly long time on H1 without stepping down much at all unlike the H600Fc which steps down almost immediately and steps down significantly in less then a minute. The runtimes should also be better. It's a bit of a trade off. More output, much better thermal performance, higher efficiency, and significantly higher CRI for a less desirable(to some) tint. 

I should also point out that it was well know long before any of these new "c" lights came out that they would be mainly yellowish or very slightly greenish compared to the old "c"'s. One only needed to look at the data sheet to know this as most of the bin(about 80-90%) is above the black body line.


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## 1000cri (Jan 6, 2018)

Its not very noticeable if there's nothing else to compare it to, but every time I turn it on with the lights on in the house I go "ugh" out loud. I just can't do green. Its definitely a well made light, and you're right about the efficiency, playing around with the H600fc mk III comparing them the SC64c was very noticeably cooler while putting out 100 lumens more. 

For my EDC light though tint and reliability are my priorities, so I'm going with a Plexpro Convoy S2+ with triple Nichia 219C 4000k 90cri with 18350 tube. I'm not aware of any other potted lights in the same price range. I'll definitely miss the user interface and overall design of the Zebralight. I love the new programmable mode groups and had no problems customizing them. Hopefully I can come back to them in the future.


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## 1000cri (Jan 6, 2018)

Tachead said:


> I should also point out that it was well know long before any of these new "c" lights came out that they would be mainly yellowish or very slightly greenish compared to the old "c"'s. One only needed to look at the data sheet to know this as most of the bin(about 80-90%) is above the black body line.



I saw the sheet posted on here somewhere a while ago before I ordered the light, my monitor must be crap because it looked to me like there was no chance of getting green.


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## Derek Dean (Jan 7, 2018)

1000cri said:


> Its not very noticeable if there's nothing else to compare it to, but every time I turn it on with the lights on in the house I go "ugh" out loud. I just can't do green.


Howdy 1000cri, and welcome to the forum.
I'm not trying to convince you to keep the light, because I dislike GREEN light as well, but I noticed you said it bothered you with the lights on in your house..... and I thought I'd point out that it's important to know the color temp of those home lights. 

For instance, my CREE LED home lights are rated with a color temp of 2700, which is very much like an incandescent, sort of yellow reddish, a nice warm glow, which I find perfect for my home environment, but which is not good for trying out flashlight tints, because once my eyes become accustomed to the warm glow of my home lights, ANY flashlight rated with a color temp of 4000 or higher will look green/cyan, even the best Nichia 219 LED made, so I've found it important to keep that in mind when checking new flashlights. 

Just something to consider : )


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## KITROBASKIN (Jan 7, 2018)

So true


Derek Dean said:


> Howdy 1000cri, and welcome to the forum.
> I'm not trying to convince you to keep the light, because I dislike GREEN light as well, but I noticed you said it bothered you with the lights on in your house..... and I thought I'd point out that it's important to know the color temp of those home lights.
> 
> For instance, my CREE LED home lights are rated with a color temp of 2700, which is very much like an incandescent, sort of yellow reddish, a nice warm glow, which I find perfect for my home environment, but which is not good for trying out flashlight tints, because once my eyes become accustomed to the warm glow of my home lights, ANY flashlight rated with a color temp of 4000 or higher will look green/cyan, even the best Nichia 219 LED made, so I've found it important to keep that in mind when checking new flashlights.
> ...



For a final judgement after playing around, Best to use flashlights by themselves in the dark for an extended period, without other confounding sources complicating matters.


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## 1000cri (Jan 7, 2018)

Like I said its not very noticeable, and I'm definitely being picky, and yes my eyes adjust to it quickly. But this is also the most expensive flashlight I've ever purchased aside from the H600fc mk III. I expected it to be as good or better. Colors looks more natural to me comparing with my H600fc. The H600fc is 4000k, its rosy. And I have a 4200k light bar on my kitchen stove, its usually stays on all day, to my eyes it looks more neutral and natural. It has no visible tint no matter if its daylight or if the 2700k kitchen ceiling LED is on. I also recently installed a Nichia 219C 4000k in a microscope, no tint in daylight or with 2700K lights on.

I used a cell phone app to measure the color temperature. I know its not as accurate as a stand alone light meter, but it usually seems to be within 100 kelvin. The H600fc measures 4200k and the SC64c measures 4500k. They're both spec'd at 4000k. I think there's a light meter somewhere in my house, I'll see if i can find it.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2018)

You're not going to get a "perfect" tint with Cree emitters. You can come close, but all Cree's have some tint shift across the beam, and most tend towards the green side of the BBL line.

Stick with Nichia 219 emitters if you want perfect tint. Out of all the Nichia 219 lights I have (over a dozen), only one of them has a tint I don't like (it was a cheap BLF-348 light, so I can't really complain).


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## 1000cri (Jan 7, 2018)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> You're not going to get a "perfect" tint with Cree emitters. You can come close, but all Cree's have some tint shift across the beam, and most tend towards the green side of the BBL line.
> 
> Stick with Nichia 219 emitters if you want perfect tint. Out of all the Nichia 219 lights I have (over a dozen), only one of them has a tint I don't like (it was a cheap BLF-348 light, so I can't really complain).



Out of all of my other Cree LED lights I have a 5500K XM-L2, 5000K XM-L2 x2, 5500K XP-L, 4000K XP-L HI, 6500K XP-G2 x3, and 5500K XP-G2, only one of the 6500K XP-G2s is green and I think its 8 years old. Guess I got lucky.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 7, 2018)

1000cri said:


> Out of all of my other Cree LED lights I have a 5500K XM-L2, 5000K XM-L2 x2, 5500K XP-L, 4000K XP-L HI, 6500K XP-G2 x3, and 5500K XP-G2, only one of the 6500K XP-G2s is green and I think its 8 years old. Guess I got lucky.



Wow! You certainly did! Almost all my Crees have a least a bit of green in the corona.


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## Tachead (Jan 7, 2018)

The tint lottery is real folks.


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## terjee (Jan 7, 2018)

FWIW, I’ve been happy with the tint of my SC64c. I ordered it for jacket EDC, and was prepared to live with less than optimal tint, but I haven’t noticed anything being wrong with it at all.


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## sim1tti (Jan 18, 2018)

The runtime specs for the SC64c or SC64w aren't listed on Zebra's site. Anyone have links or references?


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## maukka (Feb 3, 2018)

Got one nice green sample to try from a local flashlight guy. All I can say is 2-step my ***. Zebralight using that as an excuse for not switching to Nichia is ridiculous. This is even worse than the non easywhite CRI90 XP-L2 I tested earlier. I'd definitely send this back.

I'll post more data later, but will leave this here for now.


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## Tachead (Feb 3, 2018)

maukka said:


> Got one nice green sample to try from a local flashlight guy. All I can say is 2-step my ***. Zebralight using that as an excuse for not switching to Nichia is ridiculous. This is even worse than the non easywhite CRI90 XP-L2 I tested earlier. I'd definitely send this back.
> 
> I'll post more data later, but will leave this here for now.



Yeah, it would definitely be nice to see a Nichia in a ZL. I will say though I rather like my SC64c for nighttime use and the yellowish tint has grown on me. I think I got a better sample then you though as mine is a bit rosey in the hotspot(especially on H1). Not a fan of the tint shift though. 

Can you post some measurements on H1(900 lumen) please?


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## maukka (Feb 3, 2018)

Here's more measurements:
https://imgur.com/a/o1Eea


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## Tachead (Feb 3, 2018)

maukka said:


> Here's more measurements:
> https://imgur.com/a/o1Eea


Thanks👍.


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## evgeniy (Feb 3, 2018)

maukka said:


> Here's more measurements:
> https://imgur.com/a/o1Eea



thanks.
Are you plan measure Sc600 FC/Fd mk IV / H600 FC/Fd mk IV ?


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## markr6 (Feb 5, 2018)

maukka said:


> Got one nice green sample to try from a local flashlight guy. All I can say is 2-step my ***. Zebralight using that as an excuse for not switching to Nichia is ridiculous. This is even worse than the non easywhite CRI90 XP-L2 I tested earlier. I'd definitely send this back.



:sick2: Bummer about the green. One of these days the Nichias will come, and they'll be wishing they just bit the bullet years ago once they start selling faster than ever.


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## hatman (Feb 5, 2018)

I was ready to buy, but this is disappointing to say the least.


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## maukka (Feb 5, 2018)

hatman said:


> I was ready to buy, but this is disappointing to say the least.



You could always buy 10, pick the best and return the rest. That's the 2-step shopping process.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Feb 5, 2018)

maukka said:


> You could always buy 10, pick the best and return the rest. That's the 2-step shopping process.



I believe you’re missing the third step where people complain that Zebralight increases their prices after people buy 10 flashlights and return 9 opened, used flashlights that don’t actually have any defects, but Zebralight can no longer sell them as new.

That practice ensures there is no way for Zebralight to make any profit, and they in fact lose money on the transaction. If it was my company I would say please give your “business” to someone else. Don’t buy my flashlights.

Too bad these people don’t own their own business, so they would know how unacceptable such behavior and thought processes are.

I like the McGizmo return policy. You can send the light back, but don’t ask for another of the same light when nothing is wrong with the first light for obvious reasons. These flashlight manufacturers are not running a free rental service.


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## markr6 (Feb 5, 2018)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> These flashlight manufacturers are not running a free rental service.



They should state no returns of working, non-defect lights then...as some manufacturers do. How they decide to run their business is, well, their business.

I doubt their in the poor house, living in the shop without proper clothing eating rice and beans. If they were taking a hard hit on returns, I'm sure they would have changed that policy by now.

Do we really know they're not reselling "used" lights? Someone tries it for 10 seconds or 10 minutes and returns it? When I return a pair of jeans with all the tags on, do you think the department store throws it in a trash/donation/whatever bin? I can say for a fact, no, they do not. Electronics are different. Best Buy for example...they can't resell a $300 camera in a busted package as new. But if they accepted the return for some reason, they'll mark it down. So if Zebralight wants to do that, fine. But the simple solution would be to just change the policy.

But in the day and age, with free shipping and sometimes free return shipping, you gotta pay to play the game.

Will I buy a bunch and return them? Hell no, doesn't feel right. But if I get one that is completely below my expectations, it's going back. I've returned 2 now with justification. I sold a few as well. But as the customer I am, I've paid for plenty of beans and rice.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Feb 5, 2018)

Just as Don says, don't abuse the return policy. It is meant so that those truly dissatisfied or when a product just didn't match expectations can return the product without a penalty. Purchasing a product in good faith and being disappointed isn't something someone should be forced to deal with.

Purchasing a large number of anything with a preconceived plan to intentionally use and return the vast majority or all but one is wrong for morally obvious reasons. Even if the rules don't specifically say that you can't, you should know that you shouldn't. Those products were not purchased in good faith.

It is a disservice to the maker.


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## gunga (Feb 5, 2018)

I got mine. 5 days EMS delivery from China to Vancouver (including a weekend). Awesome. 

There is definitely tint variation across the beam, but I have a zebralight sc5c II so I knew what to expect. It's decent, the same as the sc5c II. Not awesome on a white wall but good in use. I'm satisfied (and will not be returning it!). 

Note: my first order of an sc5c II and h53c were substandard (nicks, dings and scratches and nasty tint). The exchanged items are better.


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## vadimax (Feb 6, 2018)

gunga said:


> I got mine. 5 days EMS delivery from China to Vancouver (including a weekend). Awesome.
> 
> There is definitely tint variation across the beam, but I have a zebralight sc5c II so I knew what to expect. It's decent, the same as the sc5c II. Not awesome on a white wall but good in use. I'm satisfied (and will not be returning it!).
> 
> Note: my first order of an sc5c II and h53c were substandard (nicks, dings and scratches and nasty tint). The exchanged items are better.



I guess those first with dings and scratches were return samples by other customers


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## scs (Feb 6, 2018)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> I believe you’re missing the third step where people complain that Zebralight increases their prices after people buy 10 flashlights and return 9 opened, used flashlights that don’t actually have any defects, but Zebralight can no longer sell them as new.
> 
> That practice ensures there is no way for Zebralight to make any profit, and they in fact lose money on the transaction. If it was my company I would say please give your “business” to someone else. Don’t buy my flashlights.
> 
> ...



That was just a bit of witty, tongue-in-cheek humor from maukka, calling out those who actually do buy multiple lights with the intention of cherry picking the best and returning the rest, and referring back to his recent opinion of ZL's 2-step emitter claim.


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## Tachead (Feb 6, 2018)

gunga said:


> I got mine. 5 days EMS delivery from China to Vancouver (including a weekend). Awesome.
> 
> There is definitely tint variation across the beam, but I have a zebralight sc5c II so I knew what to expect. It's decent, the same as the sc5c II. Not awesome on a white wall but good in use. I'm satisfied (and will not be returning it!).
> 
> Note: my first order of an sc5c II and h53c were substandard (nicks, dings and scratches and nasty tint). The exchanged items are better.



Yeah, EMS is pretty fast to Canada most of the time. I usually get mine in less then 7 days. My last order was the exception and I think it got lost for a bit and took a bit over 2 weeks.

I agree, my sample doesn't have an amazing tint on a white wall but, I have really came to like it in use, especially at night. It has a yellowish tint with shift to a more yellowish corona and the hotspot has a hint of roseyness on the higher levels.

I am a bit of a tint snob myself but, sometimes I think people need to get a life and quit spending all of their time inspecting a white wall. Plus, I really don't understand why anyone would pick a 4000K light if they don't like yellow. Although they are not as yellow as this XP-L2, even my 4000K Nichia 219B and C's are a bit yellow(especially when compared to cooler lights or used during daylight hours).

I have the SC64c and the SC64w and what I do is use the w during the day and the c at night.


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## Tachead (Feb 6, 2018)

I think it is important to keep this in mind about the SC64c... 

To my knowledge, there is no other 4000K 90+ CRI light on the market that has anywhere near the output and efficiency this thing does. And, it comes along with all the great features ZL has always offered(some of the toughest anodizing available, one piece US made Alcoa aluminum bodies, fully potted electronics, the most advanced drivers in the industry, Gorilla Glass lenses, some of the smallest and lightest 18650 bodies available, etc.). Plus, it has the new fully programmable UI which is awesome imo. Sure, the tint of these XP-L2's isn't the greatest compared to a Nichia but, this thing puts out a nearly flat regulated 900 lumens for 5+ minutes straight without any thermal step-down and, it runs for over 21 hours at 80-90 lumens pumping out 90+ CRI the whole time. That is impressive imo. 

Sometimes I think people focus on the negatives, even if they are only a small part of the whole picture, so I just though I would remind people of some of the positives.


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## gunga (Feb 6, 2018)

Thanks for the reminder! I'm slowing down on lights but have been wanting an sc64c type light for 2 years.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

Do these higher CRI lights have a smaller more defined hotspot? How is their throw? I find myself disappointed with my sc64 beam profile. I like a smaller hotspot like the 62 or even a little smaller.


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Do these higher CRI lights have a smaller more defined hotspot? How is their throw? I find myself disappointed with my sc64 beam profile. I like a smaller hotspot like the 62 or even a little smaller.



No, they offer the same size hotspot as the XHP35 models.

You can tell the size of the hotspot by comparing the beam type specs on ZL's site. The hotspot degree spec is what you are after.

If you want a smaller hotspot you have to go with the regular SC600. And, if you want an even tighter spot then that then go with the SC600 HI.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

I've read some bad reviews on the HI but even if perfect it is too fat for my pocket. The 64 is the perfect size but hotspot too big for me. Another kitchen light I guess.


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> I've read some bad reviews on the HI but even if perfect it is too fat for my pocket. The 64 is the perfect size but hotspot too big for me. Another kitchen light I guess.



Many people, including myself, have wished that ZL would offer an SC63/64 with the XHP35 HI. That would give you exactly what you want but, who knows if ZL will ever offer it.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

Tachead said:


> Many people, including myself, have wished that ZL would offer an SC63/64 with the XHP35 HI. That would give you exactly what you want but, who knows if ZL will ever offer it.


I doubt it. The view the 64 line as a flooder. Too bad.


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> I doubt it. The view the 64 line as a flooder. Too bad.



Yep, I agree and it is too bad as an SC64 with the XHP35 HI would make a great variation imo.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

Tachead said:


> Yep, I agree and it is too bad as an SC64 with the XHP35 HI would make a great variation imo.


I'd love to try it. Too bad it is so hard to swap emitters in this light. Even Vinh doesn't do it.


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## easilyled (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> I've read some bad reviews on the HI but even if perfect it is too fat for my pocket. The 64 is the perfect size but hotspot too big for me. Another kitchen light I guess.



I've read many very good reviews about the HI. What was the criticism that you read?

I still think that my SC62w with neutral tint XM-L2 is almost perfect.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

easilyled said:


> I've read many very good reviews about the HI. What was the criticism that you read?


Look at the link about battery drain. Another guy had a light that shut off in H1


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Look at the link about battery drain. Another guy had a light that shut off in H1



That is 2 examples out of the hundreds that were likely sold. There is always going to be a percentage of defects with any electronic product and ZL has a great return/exchange policy and warranty. My MKIV was great and offered the nicest beam and tint I have ever seen from a ZL.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

Tachead said:


> That is 2 examples out of the hundreds that were likely sold. There is always going to be a percentage of defects with any electronic product and ZL has a great return/exchange policy and warranty. My MKIV was great and offered the nicest beam and tint I have ever seen from a ZL.


Too fat anyway


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> I'd love to try it. Too bad it is so hard to swap emitters in this light. Even Vinh doesn't do it.



Yeah, an emitter swap isn't easy but, can be done.


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Too fat anyway



Yep, definitely less comfortable for EDC then the SC64. Although really, it is not much larger then your HDS...


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Too fat anyway



It is also almost the same weight as your HDS(both with cells included) yet offers 7 times the output and likely 15-20x the runtime at the same output...

HDS EDC Rotary with CR123A(as listed on Henry's site) = 102 grams

ZL SC600w MKIV HI with Panasonic NCR18650GA = 110 grams

Just something to consider.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

Tachead said:


> Yep, definitely less comfortable for EDC then the SC64. Although really, it is not much larger then your HDS...


That's why I don't carry the HDS.


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> That's why I don't carry the HDS.



Oh, ok. Just wanted to make sure you knew how close it was in size and weight to the HDS:thumbsup:.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

I'm tempted but doubt I'll do it.


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> I'm tempted but doubt I'll do it.



I would wait a bit if you do anyway to let ZL work out some of the growing pains of the new releases.


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## recDNA (Feb 21, 2018)

Tachead said:


> I would wait a bit if you do anyway to let ZL work out some of the growing pains of the new releases.


Great idea. I'd be afraid to buy a used one


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## Tachead (Feb 21, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Great idea. I'd be afraid to buy a used one


Remember though that ZL will fix any light even if it out of warranty for $15.


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## Ned-L (May 3, 2018)

Does anyone have even approximate run times for any of the versions?


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## Keitho (May 4, 2018)

My SC64c runs consistently for just shy of 2:00 on H2a (579 lumen rating) on my bike helmet (that is, pretty well air cooled). I consider that runtime to be pretty amazing for 1x18650, warm high-CRI LED.


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## Ned-L (May 4, 2018)

Keitho said:


> My SC64c runs consistently for just shy of 2:00 on H2a (579 lumen rating) on my bike helmet (that is, pretty well air cooled). I consider that runtime to be pretty amazing for 1x18650, warm high-CRI LED.


Thanks - I agree. I have an SC62d which I mostly use for when I run before work when it is still dark. I like to EDC a light loose in my front pants pocket, unless the pants I am wearing have a side pen/flashlight pocket, (current EDC: EagTac Mini DX3), but find the SC62d a little too big for that. The couple of comparison photos I have seen make the SC64 look perhaps just enough smaller (shorter and the head looks a little smaller) that it might carry comfortably loose in a front pants pocket. Any thoughts?


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## Keitho (May 4, 2018)

I think the size difference is minimal--same bezel dia., .2" length, and .1 oz per the spec sheets. The sc63 and 64 are the smallest 18650 lights that I know of, but only fractionally smaller than the 62. I think I might consider an upgrade based on the UI, or maybe the LED choice. 

When I carry my SC64 in gym shorts, I actually tuck the light inside my waistband with the pocket clip outside the waistband to hold it in place. It beats the jostling in/on a pocket. I do the same with a pocket knife--just a matter of finding just the right spot.


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## Fireclaw18 (May 4, 2018)

DQG Tiny IV 18650 is smaller than the Zebralight SC63/64.

The Zebralight is a much better light though.


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## Ares (Sep 10, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Do these higher CRI lights have a smaller more defined hotspot? How is their throw? I find myself disappointed with my sc64 beam profile. I like a smaller hotspot like the 62 or even a little smaller.



The hotspot is roughly the same size, but it's less "floody" if that makes any sense? There's more depth perception, put it that way.

I have an old SC62c and 62d with a much tighter hotspot. Maybe you could find one of those somewhere? Nice little torches and honestly the best tints I've seen, but I like a wider hotspot myself. They good for precision work and for tint comparisons, though. I keep them both as examples of what "c" and "d" should be in a ZebraLight lol


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## Ares (Sep 10, 2018)

For anyone wondering how my SC64w/c debacle played out, ZL did indeed replace my torch. And although I had claimed I liked a green tint, it was SO sickeningly green I could barely stand it. They also didn't ship a pocket clip with it, so now one of them doesn't have a clip lol.

I put it in a drawer and tried not to think about it. Recently, I decided to pull the trigger and order another SC64c. This time in the comments I put something along the lines of "please give me the least green tint you can find - something in the yellow/orange/rose variety, if you can manage it". I also apologized for being so obnoxious and thanked them profusely for entertaining my shenanigans lol

I'm very, very pleased with it. It is STILL a tad on the green side, mind you. But just barely. Almost imperceptibly - I have to be comparing it to my Emisar D4 XP-G2 4000k to notice. Compared to the SC64w, it just looks *warmer* with more depth perception and noticeably better color - and I absolutely love it. The old one gave everything a green cast, even in the hotspot (even outdoors!). This hotspot is perfectly warm *white*. It gets a weeeee bit green on the outer edges, but that's white wall hunting. Outside it's a dream. Very glad I gave it another shot!

I will say, I requested a green one the first time around - and again, got what I asked for. I thought I liked that tint more, but the Emisar D4 has changed my perception on that. So I never returned it, but I'm quite glad I bought another one. I'll be passing my other SC64c on at Christmas time haha.


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## Bob_McBob (Sep 10, 2018)

recDNA said:


> Do these higher CRI lights have a smaller more defined hotspot? How is their throw? I find myself disappointed with my sc64 beam profile. I like a smaller hotspot like the 62 or even a little smaller.



Replying to a very old comment indeed... Zebralight changed the texture of their OP reflectors in the middle of the last generation, so all their lights now have less defined hotspots that look larger than before. Especially annoying with a light like the SC600 HI series where the well-defined hotpot and extra throw were part of the appeal. I am with you: that's what I look for in an EDC with a reflector, so it's not an improvement to me.


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## Lithium466 (Sep 14, 2018)

Also the "old" 62c and d had the Philips emitters, not the most efficient but generally great tint and tight hotspot.


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 1, 2018)

It looks like ZL updated the PID tuning for the current generation at some point. A brand new SC64c no longer has the extreme ringing while maintaining thermal regulation.


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## Tixx (Oct 2, 2018)

But they don't make an LH351D


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 2, 2018)

Tixx said:


> But they don't make an LH351D



Well _they_ don't 

https://imgur.com/a/N9scBiB


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## Tixx (Oct 4, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> Well _they_ don't
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/N9scBiB



That is like a dream come true! How much to do one?


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 4, 2018)

Tixx said:


> That is like a dream come true! How much to do one?



I suspect most modders would charge a premium just because it's so risky and time-consuming. There are no second chances or spare parts if you screw up! I wasn't planning to do another one, but I am much more interested in ZL modding now, so I might order a couple more lights once I've carried it for a little while. I'd also like to see if ZL has any surprises before the end of the year, though they have stated rather emphatically they plan to stick with Cree emitters.

The other day I took some quick comparison shots of the LH351D SC64c and stock XP-L2 EasyWhite installed in an Armytek Tiara Pro. It is fairly obvious in person the Samsung has a significantly less green tint and makes colours pop a lot more, which isn't surprising given it has a much higher R9. There is still no source of true below BBL LH351Ds so it isn't a beautiful rosy 219B, but it's a significant improvement nonetheless. The great thing is the output is very close to stock, so you don't lose out like you would with a 219C. If Zebralight would stop sticking to their 2-step fixation the LH351D would be a much better stock choice for this light, especially since they could tweak the reflector.


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## eraursls1984 (Oct 5, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> If Zebralight would stop sticking to their 2-step fixation the LH351D would be a much better stock choice for this light, especially since they could tweak the reflector.


Since they love using Cree, the XPL-HI would be a great choice.


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 5, 2018)

eraursls1984 said:


> Since they love using Cree, the XPL-HI would be a great choice.



There are no high CRI XP-L HI options in tints most people want, but plenty for XHP35 HI. The only reason we have a 3V light that can take the LH351D is because they insisted on sticking with their 2-step requirement, which left few options for a 3535 emitter. So we ended up with a high CRI emitter that is technically very precisely lousy. 

I have a 3000K 90+ XHP35 HI in one of my throwers and it looks fairly decent. It certainly measured better than the SC64c in maukka's tests.


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## twistedraven (Oct 5, 2018)

I found the 4000k LH351Ds modded into my ROT66 to have a decent amount of green to them, so they needed a Lee 804 filter over them. Without the filter, they were slightly more green than the XHP50.2 hi cri in my H600FC, but with the filter they were a good bit more rosy and probably closer to the BBL. Recently though I've found that the SST-20 hi cri might be an even better performing CRI monster than the LH351D with better deep red rendering, so I will try those out with a filter over them, though admittedly the output isn't quite as high as the LH351D.


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 5, 2018)

I am not sure what tint bin vinh is using, but I tried them from several sources and the the ones I got from AEDe (T7) have been the nicest so far. Still no below BBL tint bins available though. They're certainly "green", but no more so than an equivalent 219C, and nowhere near as bad as the stock emitter in either SC64c I've owned. I strongly considered waiting on some SST-20s, but after testing 219Cs in the reflector I decided the hotspot would probably be too narrow for an EDC light. For some that may actually be preferable, though.

Pretty much everything I own other than 219B and E21A lights looks better with a 1/8 minusgreen. Maukka ruined all my lights with his filter testing :scowl:

I gather the H600Fc Mk IV is quite decent in the tint department. I'm still interested to see how it would look with 144AM or E21A though.


----------



## twistedraven (Oct 5, 2018)

Yeah Maukka measured his own H600FC MK4 to be +.0020 above BBL, which isn't bad at all; perfectly acceptable.

Putting a green minus 1/8 or green minus 1/4 over these high CRI emitters has been a godsend, as long as the beam itself has no tint deviation.

SST-20 is even a little bit smaller than 219B/219C, so will be even a bit throwier, but from what I can tell it's extremely well performing. Comparing both LH351D and SST20 4000k hi cri emitters without filters over them, they're both equally as green tint-wise, but when shining them on wood and skin tones, the SST20 is a good margin better. With the filter on, I can see the SST20 looking equally as good as a 219B R9080, and even outperforming it. Unfortunately I haven't been able to play with E21A R9080 emitters.


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## iamlucky13 (Oct 5, 2018)

From the test data I've seen shared on the web, the SST-20 does do a bit better in overall Ra and R9 value, which should explain the better wood and skin tone appearance. It apparently tends to have about the same tint deviation above the BBL as the LH351D and 219C, so should look similar in white-wall comparisons.

It also apparently has a hard limit of about 7A. I think two different testers burned out an internal bond wire at that current. That shouldn't be an issue as a potential SC64 alternative emitter, I don't think, but a more typical mod case is FET-driven lights. It's probably not a good option for a D1s.


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## eraursls1984 (Oct 5, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> There are no high CRI XP-L HI options in tints most people want...


Correct, but the only LED's I've had that have a consistently nice tint is the XPL-HI (70+ and 80+ CRI), and the 219B. The 219C and 351D have too much yellow and green. I don't mind magenta, or a little yellow, but green, blue, purple, or too much yellow is a no go for me. I need to get some filters, but I'm not sure how they will work with diffusers.


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 11, 2018)

I ordered a couple more of these to try other configurations, which let me get some personal validation the Samsung mod was actually worthwhile. You be the judge. The stock XP-L2 tint is exactly the same as I've seen in four different samples of the SC64c so far this year. The beam profile is different with the LH351D; hotspot more defined, but floodier coma. It's no sw45k, but it looks positively rosy side-by-side, and the significantly higher R9 is quite evident.

*Stock*





*LH351D*


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## markr6 (Oct 12, 2018)

I'm liking that Samsung!!!


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 12, 2018)

I measured throw since someone mentioned the LH351D version seems to be floodier in the photos. For the stock SC64c I got 127.1m FL1 (maukka got 126m), and for the LH351D 121.7m. There doesn't seem to be any real downside to the mod other than the obvious risk of destroying the light. I think LH351D is by far the most practical choice of emitters here, and a 5000K would probably have a higher output than stock. I am going to experiment with some optics to see how an SST-20 might work though.


----------



## Bob_McBob (Oct 14, 2018)




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## NPL (Oct 14, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


>


Very nice! Which do you prefer between the two, reflector or TIR?


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 15, 2018)

The specific optic there is a 10 degree beaded from Yajiamei. I haven't tried it in the SC64c with the LH351D, but with the stock XP-L2 it really smoothes out the beam and eliminates that puke greek corona around the hotspot that I hate. The way it's installed there, the beam profile is the typical TIR with most of the output concentrated in the hotspot (fuzzy since it's beaded) and very little spill. Output is fairly similar to stock, and it loses about 5m of throw, which is pretty inconsequential. By itself I would say it's an improvement, though I haven't tried it with an LH351D yet. It's still visibly much greener than the 4000K LH351D light I built, but not bad for a 33 cent mod. I'm 99.9% certain it will close up fine with the bezel pressed and the glass lens holding the optic in place.

I also tried a 15 degree which wasn't so great, but the floodier I go, the better it looks, so I suppose you could make a floody SC64c if you wanted. It's also possible to perform this mod on the headlamps, which might improve the tint shift that some find objectionable even through the frosted glass on the current XHP50.2 offerings.


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## vadimax (Oct 15, 2018)

I wonder why Zebralight does not do these modifications themselves? For example, I do not like frosted lenses, but this microlens array is perfect.


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 15, 2018)

This would be a pretty major design change by Zebralight's standards, and I'm not sure how well it would be received in the ECC lights since there is a lot of personal preference. I am pretty happy with the beam profile of the LH351D in a the stock reflector, but an SST-20 or even 219B would have a much too narrow hotspot based on my external tests. That's why I was looking into optics instead.


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 17, 2018)

I'll just put this here...


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## NPL (Oct 17, 2018)

You are teasing all of us that don't have your skills.[emoji14]


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 18, 2018)

That's a Nichia 219B R9080 sw45k in there. Output is about 505 lumens turn-on vs. 750-770ish stock. Personally I think the beam is a little bit tight, but that might be a bonus for some people. Here's the tint vs. stock (note the sw45k was probably further from the wall).


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## markr6 (Oct 18, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


>



SEND THIS TO ME RIGHT NOW!! I MUST HAVE!


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## Nichia! (Oct 18, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> That's a Nichia 219B R9080 sw45k in there. Output is about 505 lumens turn-on vs. 750-770ish stock. Personally I think the beam is a little bit tight, but that might be a bonus for some people. Here's the tint vs. stock (note the sw45k was probably further from the wall).



You did this mod??


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 18, 2018)

markr6 said:


> SEND THIS TO ME RIGHT NOW!! I MUST HAVE!



A few other people have expressed interest in the 219B version since it's a rather unique combination, and I would certainly consider ordering a few more and making them available in limited numbers. I'm still nailing down whether it's better to have a frosted optic, frosted lens, or just give the option of D-C fix. 



Nichia! said:


> You did this mod??



Yes, same as the Samsung mod I posted earlier in the thread.


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## Nichia! (Oct 18, 2018)

Excellent. How about the potting?


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## jon_slider (Oct 18, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> I'll just put this here...



Holly Molly!

you are the first person Ive ever seen post a Zebra w Nichia mod
Respect!

DreamLight:
SC32 w the new Zebra driver and N219b 4500k 9080


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 18, 2018)

If you're careful, the potting will remain in place under the board, or worst case you tuck it back in as it's reinserted. I'm still not convinced the potting on top is even there intentionally given the seemingly random coverage of parts on every light I've opened so far (maaaaybe the lead running through it). Last one they added too much and had to dig out one of the screws to insert the reflector!


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## Nichia! (Oct 18, 2018)

One of the reasons I like Zebralight is the (fully Potted driver??) if you redo the potting after the mod then am in


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## Nichia! (Oct 18, 2018)

If you can do the potting after the mod and depending on the price I want the following hosts with the following LEDs 

SC32

SC5

SC64

With

The old Nichia219b 4000k 9050 Hi CRI 

Xpg/xpg2 3000k Hi CRI 90+

XPL Hi (the one inside the boss) 4000k 80+ CRI??

And maybe triple nichiab 219 if 
possible?


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## gurdygurds (Oct 18, 2018)

And a partriiiiiiiidge in a peeeaaaaar treeeeeee!


Nichia! said:


> If you can do the potting after the mod and depending on the price I want the following hosts with the following LEDs
> 
> SC3
> 
> ...


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 18, 2018)

Good silicone potting material costs hundreds of dollars at a minimum, so it isn't really feasible to re-pot lights unless you're producing a lot of them. The bottom of the board is still fully encased after my mods because everything slips right back into the form snugly and is screwed in place. It is probably technically possible to cut around the edges of the top of the board and leave most of the thin film of potting material deposited there in place, but it wouldn't be doing much of anything.

In general, most Zebralight models released since about 2012 have limited emitter swap options because of the integrated driver. XM-L2 must be replaced with XM-L2 (but not EasyWhite because it's 6V), XHP50 with XHP50, etc. You could substitute a different tint, or in the case of XHP35 a nice 4500K HI or couple of slightly exotic options like 90+ 3000K HI or 90+ 5700K HD. The only recent lights Zebralight has produced with standard XP pads are the current XP-L2 models and a couple of red XP-E headlamps. The XP-L2 models only exist because Zebralight's 2-step tint binning requirement meant it was literally the only LED they could use. For any of these models you can use XP-L, 219B, 219C, SST-20, LH351B through D, and so on. The SC64c is the only 18650 model, so you can probably see why it's always been of such interest as a potential modding host.


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## Nichia! (Oct 18, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> Good silicone potting material costs hundreds of dollars at a minimum, so it isn't really feasible to re-pot lights unless you're producing a lot of them. The bottom of the board is still fully encased after my mods because everything slips right back into the form snugly and is screwed in place. It is probably technically possible to cut around the edges of the top of the board and leave most of the thin film of potting material deposited there in place, but it wouldn't be doing much of anything.
> 
> In general, most Zebralight models released since about 2012 have limited emitter swap options because of the integrated driver. XM-L2 must be replaced with XM-L2 (but not EasyWhite because it's 6V), XHP50 with XHP50, etc. You could substitute a different tint, or in the case of XHP35 a nice 4500K HI or couple of slightly exotic options like 90+ 3000K HI or 90+ 5700K HD. The only recent lights Zebralight has produced with standard XP pads are the current XP-L2 models and a couple of red XP-E headlamps. The XP-L2 models only exist because Zebralight's 2-step tint binning requirement meant it was literally the only LED they could use. For any of these models you can use XP-L, 219B, 219C, SST-20, LH351B through D, and so on. The SC64c is the only 18650 model, so you can probably see why it's always been of such interest as a potential modding host.



I know about all the info above, but am thinking if you can offer/do these mods and even put new driver in to support triple leds.


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## NPL (Oct 19, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> A few other people have expressed interest in the 219B version since it's a rather unique combination, and I would certainly consider ordering a few more and making them available in limited numbers. I'm still nailing down whether it's better to have a frosted optic, frosted lens, or just give the option of D-C fix.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, same as the Samsung mod I posted earlier in the thread.


Depending on price, would also be interested


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## eraursls1984 (Oct 19, 2018)

Nichia! said:


> If you can do the potting after the mod and depending on the price I want the following hosts with the following LEDs
> 
> SC32
> 
> ...



A triple is nearly impossible, if not completely impossible. The SC32 couldn't be nodded with the 219's, or XP's. The SC5's, and SC64's can be though (SC64c specifically).

I'd love a SC64 in sw40 and XP-L 5D. Too bad the headlamps use XH-P 35 or 50.2.


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 19, 2018)

Theoretically you could reverse engineer the PCB, make your own with pads in whatever configuration you like (and blackjack, and hookers!), then transfer over the components. That is well beyond my capabilities.

All the XP-L2 AA lights including headlamps are moddable, but there isn't a whole lot of appeal to me. On the plus side the high CRI XHP50.2 models did well in maukka's tests, so they aren't too bad. There is the possibility of swapping the frosted lens for an optic to even out any tint shift even more.


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## ven (Oct 19, 2018)

Am I correct(probably not lol) I’m thinking xhp50.2 are 4x xp-g3 and XHP70.2. 4x xp-l2?


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## Tixx (Oct 19, 2018)

Tixx said:


> 10-04-2018, 12:14 PM
> That is like a dream come true! How much to do one?




Am I able to get on the list for a Samsung?


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 21, 2018)

I did another one last night so I can compare different configurations. I'm sending the first one to a nearby flashlight enthusiast to test before proceeding with anything further. Also I am terrible at sticking on labels 








Tixx said:


> Am I able to get on the list for a Samsung?



There isn't really a "list". I'm kind of focused on the 219B version right now and haven't nailed down the exact configuration of optics or diffusion. I'm out of unmodded SC64cs for now and I'll be waiting on further testing before ordering more.


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## markr6 (Oct 21, 2018)

If you do get a list, I'd love to be on that!


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 24, 2018)

Some more beamshots, because who doesn't love beamshots?

*SC63w control*





*LH351D 4000K*





*219B R9080 sw45k w/D-C Fix*





*219B R9080 sw45k w/15 degree floody optic*


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## markr6 (Oct 24, 2018)

Both of those 219B beams look great. I think I prefer the d-c-fix since it leaves a little bit of a defined hotspot. How far away are you standing, about 8 feet?


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 24, 2018)

markr6 said:


> Both of those 219B beams look great. I think I prefer the d-c-fix since it leaves a little bit of a defined hotspot. How far away are you standing, about 8 feet?



Yep, they are both gorgeous in person. I love how smooth the floody optic looks, but I'm also leaning towards the d-c fix just because having a bit more throw is more useful to me in an EDC, and it gives the option of removing it if necessary. I will also have some frosted glass to test soon, which I suspect will be somewhere between the two. Final assembled output measures about 460 lumens with the d-c fix, or 440 lumens with the floody optic. I'm ordering more lights this week after I hear back from a tester.

Edit: I measured and it's almost exactly 8 feet


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## jon_slider (Oct 24, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> I love how smooth the floody optic looks, but I'm also leaning towards the d-c fix just because having a bit more throw... and it gives the option of removing it



I like the floody optic, 
but for a defined Hotspot application, 
could you also please share a pic of the beam with just the clear lens, No-DC, No-Floody optic


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 24, 2018)

jon_slider said:


> I like the floody optic,
> but for a defined Hotspot application,
> could you also please share a pic of the beam with just the clear lens, No-DC, No-Floody optic



Certainly, I'll do that later tonight.

Edit: I apologize, I had to reinstall the reflector, but it got too late to take the actual photo tonight. I'll do it as soon as it's dark again.


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## NPL (Oct 24, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> Certainly, I'll do that later tonight.


Thanks, looking forward to see this as well.


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 26, 2018)

Clear glass as promised. I measured 5135 cd or about 143.3m turn-on throw at 505 lumens. The stock SC64c is about 128m at 770 lumens.


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## jon_slider (Oct 26, 2018)

Thank you very much for your detailed info and follow through

I think I got these labeled right





I think the diffused looks like the smoothest beam gradient. Now Im wondering what the lumens changes are with each iteration.. ;-)

personally, I do not care for diffused beams, and would stick with the glass, its a nice wide hotspot, with the most clarity
of course this is only my opinion, and in fact any and all of the choices are excellent.. hard to go wrong with the sw45

major respect

btw, do you mod HDS too?

you seem to have a good stash of my favorite LED ;-)


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## Bob_McBob (Oct 26, 2018)

I measured this particular light and got 505 lumens with clear glass, 465 lumens with d-c fix ("diffusion film"), and about 440 lumens with the 15 degree frosted optic ("floody"). My personal preference is probably the d-c fix because the 219B has a very tight beam in the reflector and pretty much everything gets a bit of purple spill in ZL reflectors. The d-c fix smoothes things out really nicely and lets the 219B shine even more, and gives a reasonable 2745 cd or about 104.8m throw, plus the option of removing it if necessary. I have some frosted glass (and more SC64cs) on the way to test and will post the results of that too.

I'm familiar with HDS but I've never seen an HDS light in person. I gather they are possible to mod because people like emarkd have done multiple emitter swaps, but I've obviously never done it myself.


----------



## NPL (Oct 26, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> Clear glass as promised. I measured 5135 cd or about 143.3m turn-on throw at 505 lumens. The stock SC64c is about 128m at 770 lumens.


Looks like a nice trade off in lumens. You get better throw and way nicer tint and CRI in return. Thanks for sharing.


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## jon_slider (Oct 26, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> 505 lumens with clear glass,
> 465 lumens with d-c fix
> 440 lumens with the 15 degree frosted optic



so 
clear glass is 9% brighter than diffusion film, and 
clear glass is 15% brighter than the frosted optic

I agree, DCFix is probably best, as it can be removed if desired

and yes, emarkd is an inspiration to me, but he wont do mods for other people.. 



Bob_McBob said:


>



thank you for sharing your work, those little SW45 Zebras are Fantastic! I say "little" because they are actually smaller, lighter, Brighter, and considerably less expensive, than an HDS...

IF I was an 18650 user, I would be jumping all over those zebra mods youre doing.. (in fact, Im sending you a PM, cause I LOVE the SW45!)
major respect!


----------



## likethevegetable (Oct 26, 2018)

Hey McBob,

Is the frosted glass the same as offered by ZebraLight, or is it a different kind? If the latter, can you provide a link?

I have an H53Fc and H53c + DC-Fix and my observations are similar (but with no numerical data). Very pleased with how efficient DC-Fix really is and highly recommend. I still prefer the frosted optics for headlamp use.


----------



## Bob_McBob (Oct 26, 2018)

jon_slider said:


> thank you for sharing your work, those little SW45 Zebras are Fantastic! I say "little" because they are actually smaller, lighter, Brighter, and considerably less expensive, than an HDS...



The SC6x series has always been a personal favourite. The combination of size, power, and amazingly efficient regulated driver and thermal management is really something. Like you said it's actually smaller than an HDS 16340 light. I have an Armytek Prime C1 Pro I've been using as a modding platform this year, but it's hard to justify carrying it when the SC64c is the same size with 18650 and brighter to boot.


----------



## Bob_McBob (Oct 26, 2018)

likethevegetable said:


> Hey McBob,
> 
> Is the frosted glass the same as offered by ZebraLight, or is it a different kind? If the latter, can you provide a link?
> 
> I have an H53Fc and H53c + DC-Fix and my observations are similar (but with no numerical data). Very pleased with how efficient DC-Fix really is and highly recommend. I still prefer the frosted optics for headlamp use.



I was able to secure some OEM frosted glass lenses. I suspect they will fall somewhere between the frosted optic and the d-c fix versions, but we'll see when I have a chance to install one. Might be a few weeks though. I definitely like them in my Zebralight headlamps.

For the d-c fix I was particularly pleased to see it makes very little difference to the tint. Maukka kindly did an informal test for me to check this.


----------



## jon_slider (Oct 26, 2018)

likethevegetable said:


> frosted optics for headlamp use.



Me too! I do not like a hotspot from a headlamp used for close range and arms reach tasks... 

atm I use a light with an Aspheric lens clipped to my hat, similar to the McGizmo $undrop lens except, that light wont clip to a hat, and co$t$ a bit more...

related to no hotspot in a beam
look at this recent comparison of an HDS with a non mirrored reflector on the left, essentially a white painted reflector.. No Hotspot!.. kinda nice..:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...se-Reflector&p=5246608&viewfull=1#post5246608


staticx57 said:


> XPG 3700k w/DB on the left 219C 3500k on right



not that Im suggesting painting the Zebra reflector White, when clearly DC Fix is equally effective, if not moreso.. I suspect the lumen loss is lower with DC fix..



Bob_McBob said:


>



BAM! even before I ask, you anticipate my next questions 



Bob_McBob said:


> For the d-c fix I was particularly pleased to see it makes very little difference to the tint. Maukka kindly did an informal test for me to check this.



Man! I really like your posting style.
Thanks for taking the time to share all these details and pics.


----------



## Bob_McBob (Oct 30, 2018)

Zebralight just added the SC64c LE to the spreadsheet, 4000K LH351D. I guess I should be flattered  I hope they increase the top end a bit because the Samsung can easily handle 1000 lumens, but either way this will be a great light.


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## NPL (Oct 30, 2018)

This is a good sign that Zebralight is open to change!


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## neutralwhite (Oct 31, 2018)

thanks, I have seen the pictures above, and is the 4k yellow much? 



Bob_McBob said:


> Zebralight just added the SC64c LE to the spreadsheet, 4000K LH351D. I guess I should be flattered  I hope they increase the top end a bit because the Samsung can easily handle 1000 lumens, but either way this will be a great light.


----------



## Tixx (Oct 31, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> Zebralight just added the SC64c LE to the spreadsheet, 4000K LH351D. I guess I should be flattered  I hope they increase the top end a bit because the Samsung can easily handle 1000 lumens, but either way this will be a great light.



Awesome!


----------



## Bob_McBob (Oct 31, 2018)

neutralwhite said:


> thanks, I have seen the pictures above, and is the 4k yellow much?



It's quite yellow compared to 219B sw45k or E21A sm403, but about the same as something like a 219C. Much less green than the XP-L2 in the SC64c though.


----------



## jon_slider (Oct 31, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> It's quite yellow compared to 219B sw45k or E21A sm403, but about the same as something like a 219C.



Totally agree
I find 219c very green, comng from 219b

A friend modded an Olight S15 with a Samsung LH351D 4000k 90CRI. 
He said:
“I’m not too happy with that one. Too much yellow/green”


----------



## Swedpat (Nov 1, 2018)

jon_slider said:


> Totally agree
> I find 219c very green, comng from 219b
> 
> A friend modded an Olight S15 with a Samsung LH351D 4000k 90CRI.
> ...



I am waiting for an SC64c with XP-L2. If I find the tint as awesome(or close to) as with SC53c and H53c I will keep it.


----------



## Swedpat (Nov 1, 2018)

I received the package today. The tint is just slightly cooler than my SC53c but still very nice, and it's warmer than the tint of my SC600w III. While I can see a slight greenish in SC600w III there is nothing of that in SC64c.
Consequently I have hard to ask the dealer for a replacement to the coming version with that Samsung emitter. It's not sure I would like it better.


----------



## jon_slider (Nov 1, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> [re: LH351d]...about the same as something like a 219C. Much less green than the XP-L2 in the SC64c though.



opinions about tint vary from person to person:



Swedpat said:


> While I can see a slight greenish in SC600w III there is nothing of that in SC64c.



glad youre happy

I think one reason that opinions about the tint of the XP-L2 are opposite, has to do with what the light is being compared to, and also what white balance the operators brain is using at the time


----------



## Swedpat (Nov 1, 2018)

jon_slider said:


> opinions about tint vary from person to person:
> 
> glad youre happy
> 
> I think one reason that opinions about the tint of the XP-L2 are opposite, has to do with what the light is being compared to, and also what white balance the operators brain is using at the time



For sure, you are right. I know that it's enough to compare a certain tint to a another tint to perceive the first tint different. The eyes/brain perception of tints is deceptive. A bluish cool white alone can be perceived as the whitest of white. A yellowish warm tint alone can be perceived as true white. But place these side by side and you get another opinion! So yes; I think the brain often play a game with us...


----------



## jon_slider (Nov 1, 2018)

yes, our brain has a mind of its own.. lol

I have been very confused by that, in the past

after many many beamshot comparisons, here is my simplest suggestion on assessing tint, of a single beam..

1. Shine the light on the ceiling of my kitchen during the day (brain will be white balancing to 5500k).. in this case I mostly do not notice green tinted lights, and Cool White looks white, just like you mention

2. Shine the light on the same ceiling at night, when my 3000k incandescent light is on (brain will be white balancing to 3000k). In that case Cool White looks blue, and if there is green tint, it becomes much more obvious than during the day

I think part of the reason green tint is not noticed when checked during daylight hours, is that daylight contains a LOT of green itself.

And, our brain is constantly trying to make the primary light source in our environment, to look white.. even when it is warmer than Cool White..


for me, the best way to determine the Relative Tint of an LED, is to include an N219b 4000k, plus a cool white, Plus the light being tested.. iow my best examples of tint differences use 2 lights that I know as references, plus the one new light Im testing.

this is an example:
left to right, 4000k N219b high CRI (my first Love), 4000k XM-L2 low cri in Olight Ti S Mini (I hate it!), Cool White SSC P4 Low CRI in an unmodified Novatac (happily NOT a lot of green)







here btw is a photo of a 3000k incandescent, but the white balance is set to it, so it looks white.. my brain does the same thing after it gets adapted to Incandescent, which takes about 30 minutes..





obviously during the day, that same bulb looks quite a bit warmer than daylight:





the color and tint of the incandescent did not change, only the white balance it is being compared to

White is in the mind of the beholder.. there is no one single White


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Nov 1, 2018)

Exemplary images and explanation


----------



## Swedpat (Nov 1, 2018)

Thanks for interesting tint comparisons!


----------



## Bob_McBob (Nov 4, 2018)

Some 219B beamshot comparisons if anyone is curious. The gif is pretty ugly, but there's a nicer version here I can't embed unfortunately.

https://imgur.com/iT4FLXO


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## markr6 (Nov 5, 2018)

I'm really glad I'm to the point of not being tricked by mind games. A sucky tint still sucks and it has no place in my home no matter what it's being compared to. When I get a light, the first thing I do is shine it on something white, then something with color, but also white on it (label on a package). I'll know right away if it's a keeper.


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 5, 2018)

In the world of ultra-low light, there are no sucky tints. Even a green LED just puts out light without color, when perceived with night adapted vision. 

Hopefully the originator of this thread does not mind this divergent discussion.


----------



## Bob_McBob (Dec 18, 2018)

If anyone is curious, this is the difference between 219B sw35, the stock XP-L2 EasyWhite, and 219B sw45k.


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## markr6 (Dec 19, 2018)

Bob_McBob said:


> ... and 219B sw45k.



I wish every LED on earth was like this


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## hatman (Dec 20, 2018)

b


Bob_McBob said:


> If anyone is curious, this is the difference between 219B sw35, the stock XP-L2 EasyWhite, and 219B sw45k.



Wow -- thanks!


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## Bob_McBob (Jan 4, 2019)

ZL just updated the spreadsheet with full specs for the SC64c LE. They're rating it at 828 lumens vs. 900 for the XP-L2 version. Moonlight is slightly lower at 0.05 lumens. Based on my testing with my own LH351D modded light, all they're doing is swapping the LED without any adjustment to output current or firmware. I'm disappointed they didn't increase the output, but at least it will be a huge improvement in tint vs. the extremely green XP-L2 version.


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## Bob_McBob (Jan 4, 2019)

Live on the site now:

http://www.zebralight.com/SC64c-LE-18650-4000K-High-CRI-Flashlight-Limited-Edition_p_239.html


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## emarkd (Jan 14, 2019)

Got my SC64c LE in today. Short story short -- Its fantastic! Love the tint, its not green at all in the hotspot, maybe just a touch in the corona, but very very slight. Its not nearly as green as the XHP35 in my SC63w. And its high-cri too, a huge difference when I shine the two around my house. It may even be better than my well-loved SC62w. Ok, it probably is better because its high-cri and has the newer UI. This is the best Zebralight I've bought in a while, I'm thrilled.











If I had a gripe it would be this clip. I don't like this clip nearly as well as the thinner chrome one. I mean, I didn't love the chrome...but I think this is worse. Maybe I'll swap them.





And an attempt at a beamshot comparison. Here's the new Samsung on the left, compared to an SC63w (XHP35) on the right.


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## markr6 (Jan 14, 2019)

Great anodizing color on that one especially against that black clip!


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## NPL (Jan 14, 2019)

Looks really nice!


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 14, 2019)

Definitely looks like a winner. It would be interesting to see how the tint/beam compares to the SC64w HI.


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## neutralwhite (Jan 14, 2019)

I have this same modded by Sir Bob.
219b 4000k 9080


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## likethevegetable (Jan 14, 2019)

Woohoo, congrats, glad you like it.

I wish ZL put more effort into their clips and headlamp mounts. The H600 IV clip is crap, the SC600 clip needs a smooth part for the clip to sit on (luckily I prefer my SC600w IV without a clip), the only one I have that is useful is my H53Fc, but I aesthetically I'm not a big fan.

Anyway, looks great. I'm feeling super tempted to join the club...


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## Random Dan (Jan 14, 2019)

markr6 said:


> Great anodizing color on that one especially against that black clip!



At this rate you're gonna need to change your sig to 'GOOD ANODIZING COLOR!'


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## markr6 (Jan 15, 2019)

Random Dan said:


> At this rate you're gonna need to change your sig to 'GOOD ANODIZING COLOR!'



I had that coming :laughing:


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## Hugh Johnson (Jan 15, 2019)

Emarkd, it looks like the light has a crack above the tail cap. Am I seeing that right?


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## Tachead (Jan 15, 2019)

Hugh Johnson said:


> Emarkd, it looks like the light has a crack above the tail cap. Am I seeing that right?


I think it's an eyelash lol.


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## emarkd (Jan 15, 2019)

Tachead said:


> I think it's an eyelash lol.


Lol yeah, or maybe a dog hair. Looks like it got stuck in the oring grease when I was putting the cell in. I didn't notice it until someone else pointed it out. Sorry...


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## Tachead (Jan 15, 2019)

emarkd said:


> Lol yeah, or maybe a dog hair. Looks like it got stuck in the oring grease when I was putting the cell in. I didn't notice it until someone else pointed it out. Sorry...


No problem man lol. Heck I have to tell people they "will" get a dog hair in their food when they eat at my house(it's near impossible to keep them out of everything I own... Or eat).


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## AB8XL (Feb 25, 2019)

I received my SC64c LE today along with the monster SC700d and SC53Fc, I'm very impressed with them all, but I think the SC64c LE will be my new EDC, I really like the tint and color of the Samsung LH351D.


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## LightObsession (Feb 26, 2019)

That SC64 LE is pulling at my heart strings 😍


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## P220C (Feb 26, 2019)

Mine came in yesterday, too and it’s a real winner.


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## Bob_McBob (Mar 12, 2019)

Zebralight has confirmed to me the SC64c is now discontinued in favour of the SC64c LE, which I suppose wasn't a very difficult decision. It did make availability for both models extremely spotty until just recently. I finally managed to get my hands on a batch of LEs, and I am pretty pleased with the copy I tested. Unlike the XP-L2 version which was exceedingly green and got even greener on turbo, the LE I tested is sort of green (Duv ~0.0035) on most modes, and gets progressively more neutral on the H levels until it's perfectly neutral on H1. It's better than the one I built myself with T5 tint bin LH351Ds, which only reaches Duv 0.0011 on H1. You can also see a behaviour I've noticed with LH351Ds in general where R9 gets progressively lower as current increases, though at 3A the LE doesn't really suffer in any meaningful way.







For comparison, here's a 219B sw45k R9080 SC64c on M1 and H1 (only level where it gets really pink):

CCT = 4338K (Duv -0.0037)
Color Rendering Index (Ra) = 92.9 [ R9 = 83.0 ]

CCT = 4466K (Duv -0.0082)
Color Rendering Index (Ra) = 94.2 [ R9 = 85.6 ]


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## JimIslander (Mar 12, 2019)

Received mine (SC64c LE) March 4 after ordering on Feb. 28. My new EDC. Love everything about this light.


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## Mr. LED (Mar 13, 2019)

If the SC64c was discontinued and replaced with the LE, then the limited edition is not so limited maybe?


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## Mattz68 (Mar 13, 2019)

I’ve had my 64LE for about 3 weeks now and I gotta say: this little guy rocks! Fit and finish perfect, tint and cri -outstanding. But the icing on cake for me..Zebralight FINALLY upgraded their switch. Nice and grippy rubber boot cover, no air or hollow felling as you press. Perfect “click” and travel as one presses. Feels like an 80$ flashlight now. Also, I have keep reminding myself (because of its size) -this isn’t a AA light -its 18650! People considering this light should know that it has very little throw. The beam pattern is best suited for edc, around the house, campsite, etc.


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## KITROBASKIN (Mar 14, 2019)

Mr. LED said:


> If the SC64c was discontinued and replaced with the LE, then the limited edition is not so limited maybe?



Curious indeed.

After maybe 4 years of not buying a new Zebralight, this stable of a rarely used LEE Filtered 1/4 minus green SC52 and three SC62d (one for shelf duty backup previously-now used nightly by my wife in our rather unique living situation, two for rotating between nightly home use and keeping in work pack -occasional use) has been joined by the SC64 LE. Definitely agree with posts written by members. Wanted to say that a good quality Nichia 219c from the likes of Oveready, and in my case, Emisar also, will probably be more appealing to some members here. This is evident to me ONLY when directly comparing them on a white wall; not a real-life application for sure. 
Also wanted to reaffirm that the lowest low is nowhere near the sub-lumen goodness of the SC62d, especially one of my units. But, you know what? It works fine late at night with fully adapted night eyes. It probably is more versatile in that it is useful at longer range without blasting night adapted eyes too badly.

Could a CPF member lend a helping hand? The written directions with the LE do not offer the advanced programming instructions. Does this model offer it? I have not searched the Zebralight website, just hoping someone could tell me where it is. Does it have PID adjustment? Thanks in advance!


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## ven (Mar 14, 2019)

Congrats kitro, it is on the zebra under advanced, here a copy


Basic Operation

One short-click turns on the light to High or turns off the light.
Two short-click turns on the light to Medium.
Three short-click turns on the light to the beacon-strobe mode.
Press and hold (for over 0.6 seconds) turns on the light to Low and then Medium and High. Release at the desired level.

Advanced Operation and Configuration
Press and hold to cycle from Low, Medium and High, release at the desired level to set. When press and hold, the light always cycle from Low to High regardless which level you are currently in.
Double click to toggle and select between the two sub-levels for that main level. Sub-level selections for the 3 main levels are memorized after the light is turned off and through battery changes.
The second sub-level (H2, M2 and L2) of each main levels can be further programmed to different brightness levels. At a main level, double-click 6 times to start configuration. On subsequent double-clicks the light will cycle through different brightness levels. Short click to turn off the light when finishing configurations. The selections for the second sub-levels are memorized after the light is turned off and through battery changes.
This light uses the main LED (flashing 1 to 4 times) to indicate the estimated remaining capacity of the battery. To start the battery indicator, (from Off) short-click 4 times without pause.
Beacon-strobe mode can be accessed from 3 short-clicks when the light is Off. Once in the beacon-strobe mode, you can double-click to cycle through different types of beacons and strobes. Beacon-strobe settings are memorized when the light is turned off and through battery changes.

PID Thermal Regulation Temperature Programming for two highest output levels
Turn off the light from H1 and then turn back on to H1
Press and hold to cycle from Low to High 6 times
On the 7th (or more) cycle, release the switch
when High, to add 1 degree C (up to 5 max)
when Med, to revert back to the factory default
when Low, to subtract 1 degree C (up to 5 max)


Multiple Mode Groups
This light comes with three mode groups, G5, G6 and G7. The G5, set as the factory default, can be selected with 5-click from OFF, while G6 and G7 can be selected with 6-click and 7-click from OFF respectively. Mode group selections are memorized after the light is turned off and through battery changes.
In all three mode groups
H can be either H1 or H2; M can be either M1 or M2; L can be either L1 or L2
from OFF: 1-click to H; 2-click to M; press and hold to cycle from L, M to H

In G5
H1 is fixed at 900Lm, H2 can be 579, 341, or 183Lm
M1 is fixed at 90Lm, M2 can be 40, 16.6, or 6.2Lm
L1 is fixed at 2.1Lm, L2 can be 0.67, 0.19, or 0.05Lm

In G6 and G7
H1, H2, M1, M2, L1 and L2 can be programmed to any of the 12 available brightness levels
Double-click 6 times at the H1, H2, ...L2 to enter the programming mode for that level. Once in the programming mode, use double-click to go up one level and triple-click to go down one level. Use 1-click to exit the programming mode
Three consecutive 5-click (or 6-click, 7-click) to reset the G5 (or G6, G7) back to the factory default settings


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## Mr. LED (Mar 14, 2019)

Hi! Yes it does have the advanced programming and PID. You can read the details in the updated manual http://www.zebralight.com/assets/images/ZebraLightUserGuide2019.pdf

or

”Multiple UI Groups

This light comes with three UI groups, G5, G6, and G7. The G5, set as the factory default, can be selected with 5 clicks from Off, while G6 and G7 can be selected with 6 clicks and 7 clicks from Off respectively. UI group selections are memorized after the light is turned off and through battery changes.

In all three UI groups, from Off: 1-click to H (H1 or H2), 2-click to M (M1 or M2), press and hold to cycle from L (L1 or L2), and then to M and H.
In the G5 UI group, brightness levels of the H1, M1 and L1 are fixed, while the H2, M2 and L2 can be programmed. In the G6 and G7, all six (H1, H2, M1, M2, L1, and L2) modes can be programmed to any of the 12 available brightness levels.

To program the G6 or G7:

1. Enter the G6 or G7 with 6 or 7 clicks from Off.
2. Double-click 6 times at H1, H2, ... L2 to enter the programming
mode for that level. Once in the programming mode, use double- click to go up one level and triple-click to go down one level. Use 1- click to exit the programming mode.
3. If needed, use 15, 18, and 21 clicks from Off, to reset to the factory default settings of the G5, G6, and G7 UI groups.”

Enjoy your LE. At the moment I’m in love with my SC64w HI.

Oops ven has a faster trigger than me


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## JimIslander (Mar 14, 2019)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Curious indeed.
> 
> Could a CPF member lend a helping hand? The written directions with the LE do not offer the advanced programming instructions. Does this model offer it? I have not searched the Zebralight website, just hoping someone could tell me where it is. Does it have PID adjustment? Thanks in advance!



Instructions are on the website. I know...crazy that the PDF instructions also don't have this info, just the website.

NOTE: Instead of trying to double or triple click X-times, just click the total number of times required. E.G. instead of 5 double clicks just click 10 times. Easier than trying to double or triple and equally effective.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 14, 2019)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Curious indeed.



This makes it less curious:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...surements-or-quot-why-2-step-means-squat-quot

A lot of users have been bothered by the greenish tint in the XP-L2, and I think even more so by the tint shift across the beam. I've seen numerous users here say they sent theirs back and requested a better sample. It sounds like Zebralight has been generally pretty helpful about those requests, but that kind of customer support costs money.

With around half the DUV, and less tint shift across the beam, I'd bet Zebralight got a lot fewer complaints about the LE, which would tell them right away which emitter is likely to cost them less in returns and earn them more repeat customers.

By the way, I have two Convoy S2+'s that are identical except for one is 219C and the other is LH351D. I can confirm the LH351D is pretty close in light quality to the 219C. I'd rank the 219C slightly more neutral and slightly better at red rendering, but it's not an obvious difference. The bigger difference is the LH351D is floodier.


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## KITROBASKIN (Mar 16, 2019)

Thanks so much!
Mr. LED: Seems like the SC64w HI is an excellent choice. 

Ven: You are the best.

JimIslander: Great idea! 

iamlucky13: Thanks for the background info. Nichia 219c has been somewhat disappointing for some, early adopters perhaps more so. I have a P60 dropin from mtnelectronics that has a ho-hum tint. Guess I got lucky with the Emisar. Problem is, that Emisar is glitchy and can not be counted on in the field without another torch on hand. Oveready had to wait quite a while to get the kind of tint they demand for their emitters. Some would consider best advice is to not get hung up on white wall comparisons unless it is a passion for you. If the tint is not distracting in actual use, you are good to go. Would think Zebralight is still not wanting to do business with Nichia, and that's OK, right?


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## Mr. LED (Mar 16, 2019)

JimIslander said:


> ...crazy that the PDF instructions also don't have this info, just the website..



The PDF was updated a few weeks ago.


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## JimIslander (Mar 16, 2019)

Mr. LED said:


> The PDF was updated a few weeks ago.



Thank you for the heads up!


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## StandardBattery (Mar 16, 2019)

I just did a quick test of my SC64c LE. It is a very nice tint, and beam looks very nice as most in the 62 and 64 series. I'm just charging a battery so I can more easily compare it side by side to 3 other 62/64 series lights. As expected by the 'c' designation and specified color temp it is on the warmer side of neutral, but quite nice, not too warm as expected and in line with other 'c' series. I pulled a battery out of a 600 series headlamp, but that was a protected cell, so had to pull the GA out of by 600 series EDC. The threads were heavily lubed on the 64c LE, more than I've ever seen on a Zebralight out of the box. I was surprised it used a shallow spring in the tailcap rather than the pogo pins, but I guess that remains for the 64 series. 

I only got this light to checkout the new LED, and because the 62w is one of my all time favorite lights, after that one I had found my real EDC (which was eventually replaced with the 600Fd III plus). The 62/64 series though are more pocket friendly and still seem quite amazing to me. The beam on the 64c LE seems really clean even with it's typical corona transition rings typical of the series. I didn't see any weird tones or green in my quick evaluation, I look forward to putting it next to the 62w, 62d, and 64w for a closer look. I should try to find my 62c for a closer comparison, but that could take days so I'm just going to use what's handy.

It looks to me that this LED is certainly worthy of being put into a Zebralight. I can't see why anyone would be disappointed in this light.


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## emarkd (Mar 16, 2019)

If you cross the beams with that old 62w you'll probably see the green. That xml2 they used in the 62w was very reddish/tannish and the comparison should really bring out the tint difference. Less obvious, but worth looking for, is the cri difference. Instead of shining them both at a while wall (or at least in addition to..), shine them on a warm wooden object, like a piece of good furniture. Or take them outside and shine at the plant life. The cri difference should swing the balance back toward the LE. At least it does for me.


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## eraursls1984 (Mar 16, 2019)

emarkd said:


> If you cross the beams with that old 62w you'll probably see the green. That xml2 they used in the 62w was very reddish/tannish and the comparison should really bring out the tint difference. Less obvious, but worth looking for, is the cri difference. Instead of shining them both at a while wall (or at least in addition to..), shine them on a warm wooden object, like a piece of good furniture. Or take them outside and shine at the plant life. The cri difference should swing the balance back toward the LE. At least it does for me.



The XM-L2 used in the 62w was a tint lottery. Anything from rosy to green.


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## StandardBattery (Mar 16, 2019)

The 64 series had a higher output than the 62 series and the difference between the 62d and 64c LE was quite significant. I had no problems with any of the tints since i used the 62w for years. The 64c LE is warmer than i generally prefer, but it is really nice, many would certainly prefer it. With the higher output, the 64c LE was also running cooler than my 62w. I don't know if it would make sense for them to introduce a 64d LE with the same LED and a 5000K - 5200K color temp, but i think it would rock. The 64w is listed at 4500K, but mine seems to be closer to 5000K, but i didn't try to confirm that so maybe i'm dreamimg. 

The 64c LE is definetly a nice addition to Zebralight stable, the warmer tint and nice output should make it quite popular. It will be a great outdoor and all round light, only having to step aside when more lumens are required.


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## Candlestick (Apr 6, 2019)

I just ordered the sc64c LE, was not going to buy any more lights (I have been edc a Peak El Captain high cri brass), but have been reaching the limits of what that light can do.

-The output should be enough for my needs, anything it can’t light up at 800 lumens either needs it’s own generator stadium light or a pencil beam thrower, neither would be good for edc.
-The size is hardly larger than most AA lights, should not draw too much attention in the pocket and weighs next to nothing

-The battery capacity is big enough that I only should have to change batteries 1-2 times a month

-The runtime on the lows make it a great emergency light, lasting months with enough light to not get lost

-High CRI means it will be useful for identifying wildlife, night photography, first aid

-Warmish neutral means it will be useful as a night light, had this come up several times while camping with family, I was asked to provide a night light for the kid’s tent or camper. .05 lumens should be perfect to light up a small area with ceiling bounce just enough to avoid stepping on someone. 4000k is roughly the color temp of actual moonlight, cool white is jarring to sleep as it is more like the sky at dawn.

As far as my experince with other ZL, I own two flood headlamps both high CRI one AA and one 18650. Both get used regularly. I keep the h502c on my shelf, use it for bathroom runs and nightly reading/writing. The h603c gets used when working in the dark, at 800 lumens of pure flood it is still enough light to see a whole acre. Since I bought those three years ago it looks like they just got better, I really like the idea of preset mode groups, will probably set up g6 or g7 to have a medum-low only output on all levels, if I ever let soneone borrow it.

Will update post when light arrives.


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## KITROBASKIN (Apr 8, 2019)

Been using the LE nightly, and the tint is not distracting, being used to the 5000K 62d for so many years. And the wife is using one of my 62d's nightly as well. 
Have to say that the LE seems to be quite a step up in efficiency from the 62d.


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## Candlestick (Apr 10, 2019)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Been using the LE nightly, and the tint is not distracting, being used to the 5000K 62d for so many years. And the wife is using one of my 62d's nightly as well.
> Have to say that the LE seems to be quite a step up in efficiency from the 62d.



I noticed it seems to run a lot longer on high before heating up than my H602c does, it is a cool thought that even the low 1 setting is enough light to navigate by, and has months of run time.


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## Candlestick (Apr 10, 2019)

I got my light a few days ago, not disappointing. It seems to have a comparable CRI / tint to a Nichia 219b. Initial impressions are good, it is small and light, shines in the dark. I did some beam comparisons with my H603c, seems warmer. I don't see any green tinge on the low setting, in fact this seems to be one of the best lights as far as CRI on low. I can still see in full color even on the 0.05 lumen setting! I noticed that on the first sub lumen light I owned (cool white Thrunite) everything would look gray and colorless, even on medium levels of output, I never realized how much detail comes from color until I got my first high CRI light. You can see more with high cri 200 lumens than you can with low cri 800 lumens, and this light has high CRI 800 lumens, or lows that last a lot longer than your average household food stock.

Edit: here is a quick compare, it does look a lot more high CRI, and a little warmer than the H603c.


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## Burgess (Oct 20, 2019)

Received mine today !
Couldn't resist the Siren Call any longer.

Took it out tonight, and Very Impressed !

And it's actually slightly SHORTER
than my Reylight Brass Pineapple (1xAA) ! ! !


Finish is unlike any of my previous
eight (AA) Zebralights.

Smooth and Glossy brownish-black !
Almost "slippery" !

Is this the new "standard" finish for ZL ? ? ?


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## markr6 (Sep 16, 2020)

Look like this model has been updated. It can now take your blood pressure. www.amazon.com/Zebralight-SC64c-18650-Neutral-Flashlight/dp/B0793RFQ55


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Sep 16, 2020)

markr6 said:


> Look like this model has been updated. It can now take your blood pressure. www.amazon.com/Zebralight-SC64c-18650-Neutral-Flashlight/dp/B0793RFQ55



Nice! I'm not sure I like the new shape, though. Might be harder to pocket-carry than the old design. But, I love the new features!


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## Burgess (Sep 16, 2020)

Those CLEVER zebras !


:twothumbs:twothumbs
_


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## chillinn (Sep 16, 2020)

It could never be accurate, because Zebralights always artificially raise blood pressures.


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## markr6 (Sep 16, 2020)

chillinn said:


> It could never be accurate, because Zebralights always artificially raise blood pressures.




Yes! Especially when first opening that box for the first time. The anticipation...

Will it be grayish, olive drab, nearly black anodizing? Matte finish or shiny? Green tint, magenta tint, just right?


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