# Fenix L0P AAA



## Jeronimo (Jan 4, 2006)

Just when I thought I was going to get a Fenix L1P they release a L0P model which uses AAA with a Luxeon!

Check it out - http://www.fenixlight.com/flashlight/fenixl0.htm

Looks like my road to becoming a flashaholic has started - I may have to get both! 

Now all we need is a review


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## LouRoy (Jan 4, 2006)

"neglectable volume" 

"can serve as your reliable pal in life"

:wow: : I need some of that neglectable volume. And we can all use a pal :rock: 

Looks like another great light from Fenix!


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## not2bright (Jan 4, 2006)

Hmmm, "Flashlight of the Year" 2006?


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## mossyoak (Jan 4, 2006)

sold sold sold who is selling them tho?


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## Freedom1955 (Jan 4, 2006)

Who's got them? I gotta have one of these!!!


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## warpdrive (Jan 4, 2006)

WOW.....let the feeding frenzy begin!


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## Flash_Gordon (Jan 4, 2006)

Oh Crap! I do not need this light. I really do not need any more lights. Although, my L1 is excellent. One of the best lights/best bargains in recent memory.

Just out of general curiosity, I wonder who might be selling them?


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## JohnK (Jan 4, 2006)

Poor Peak, if they can't match their price.


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## LowBat (Jan 4, 2006)

I fear the discharge curve using an AAA cell will be brutal. What I'm curious about is the yet undisclosed "P" and "X" series.


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## Hookd_On_Photons (Jan 4, 2006)

Well, I *thought* I was done with flashlights for a while...

I sent an e-mail to 4sevens. Since he's organized three Fenix groupbuys, he may or may not be up for doing one more...


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## Stainless (Jan 4, 2006)

WOW. These folks are really on a roll!

(Someone really should help them brush up the text on the website.)


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## Freedom1955 (Jan 4, 2006)

LowBat said:


> I fear the discharge curve using an AAA cell will be brutal. What I'm curious about is the yet undisclosed "P" and "X" series.



Fenix sight says 1.6 hr run time with 1hr peak brightness.


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## JohnK (Jan 4, 2006)

deleted


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## adirondackdestroyer (Jan 4, 2006)

and I told myself I was done buying Flashlights for a while. lol


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## EVOeight (Jan 4, 2006)

No clicky tail switch? Why would they do that???:huh2:


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## *Bryan* (Jan 4, 2006)

Ahhhh,
it's only money. We could always make some more of it. You always need another light. The one time you need it and have it, it pays for itself. 

At least that is what I tell myself...lol :laughing:


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## shabbasuraj (Jan 4, 2006)

Hope they produce some 123 powered lights with 3 or 5 watt capabilities...

...heck as I am sure they can sell those.


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## AdamW (Jan 4, 2006)

We will have a choice between Fenix' L0P and Peak's Ocean series. Very, very nice choices!


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## Greg (Jan 4, 2006)

Man, that is a really great looking light, but I think my L1P will have to do for now. I too hope they start coming out with 1 CR123 lights with the 5 watt format, but I expect that to be a while.

Still wondering what the X and P series will be all about. Anyone have any ideas???


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## greenLED (Jan 4, 2006)

Shoot! Just when I thought I was done drooling over new lights.


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## pryan (Jan 4, 2006)

LowBat said:


> I fear the discharge curve using an AAA cell will be brutal. What I'm curious about is the yet undisclosed "P" and "X" series.



Indeed, what are the P and X series?


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## IsaacHayes (Jan 4, 2006)

Wow, cant wait for size comparision to an ArcAAA. No price yet. Looks like the gift box is either wood or wood print, kind of cool.


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## liteMANIAC (Jan 4, 2006)

Just my luck, 4sevens just sent out my L1P today and was hoping it would keep me happy for a while. Well looks like I'll have to buy another light sooner than I thought I would.


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## jcciv (Jan 4, 2006)

withdrawn due to manufacturer request


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## KAM (Jan 4, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Shoot! Just when I thought I was done drooling over new lights.



Exactly


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## Jeronimo (Jan 4, 2006)

While this does look rather nice, I think I will still go for the AA. Longer runtime, brighter, clicky tail and I suspect it will fit nicer in the hand.

Or maybe I will get both. Fenix sure seem to be cleaning up at the low end of the market!


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## 4sevens (Jan 4, 2006)

Freedom1955 said:


> Who's got them? I gotta have one of these!!!



I don't have one yet, but several hundred are heading my way!
Pick one up in this thread


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## KAM (Jan 4, 2006)

Nice one 4sevens!


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## Erasmus (Jan 4, 2006)

Hope to get one soon  I'll probably be one of the first to get it


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## Mike abcd (Jan 4, 2006)

No price listed but they've removed the pricing on the other models too.
EDIT: Ouch! Just saw the price on 4sevens thread! $47.50, $45.50 wo gift box. I'd hoped for less...

No regulation claimed although it probably won't be too bad on a good 850/900 mAH which is the only way I'll normally use it
Twistie, probably no easy 2 stage mod although it would probably take a surface mount to fit even with a clickie
No momentary mentioned. Might work like the L1 here just barely backed off from on.
About the same width as the Dorcy 1AAA barrel but no head bulge and almost 1/2" shorter. Nice!
Run time claim looks roughly reasonable for an NiMH given a AAA has about 1/3 the capacity of an AA (less at that dischaarge rate), claimed brightness is 2/3 of a L1P where the Lux I should be even more efficient and L1P NiMH run time is about 2.5 hours.

If it supported a 2 stage, it would be about perfect for me. Even so, it looks like it's going to be the replacement for my Nichia modded Dorcy 1AAA as the "all the time", in the pocket light. I love the Dorcy for that as it just disappears until I need it. This should do that appreciably better.

Mikey likes! I've been pretty happy with the L1P and Lighthound L1 R bin and this looks pretty impressive for it's size with even a higher proportion of its output in the spill and a decent hot spot.

Mike


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## JohnK (Jan 4, 2006)

Hmmmm.

Fenix L1P advertizes as 46 lumens, Quickbeam actual measurement, about 26 lumens.

Assuming equal "out the front end" efficiency:

46/26=30/X
46X=780
X=16.95 lumens for the LOP

Not too shabby.

Using the same 1.43 conversion factor X output, the ARC Premium is about 7.7 lumens, a Peak 3LED Ultra about 9.0 lumens.

About double the lumens of two proven lights.


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## liteMANIAC (Jan 4, 2006)

Anyone know the date that they will be sold?


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## greenLED (Jan 4, 2006)

EVOeight said:


> No clicky tail switch? Why would they do that???


hard to build a clicky for an AAA light + keep size to a minimum


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## jezzyp (Jan 4, 2006)

RIP M*g Solitare...


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## pokkuhlag (Jan 4, 2006)

liteMANIAC said:


> Anyone know the date that they will be sold?



They are already for sale here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1218132#post1218132

But they won't be shipped until around 15th of january.


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## JohnK (Jan 4, 2006)

AND, it's got a ring for the keychain.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 4, 2006)

I'm one who doesn't carry an Arc AAA. Because of its weak output I found I barely used it. I bet this will have a decent output but will need a 2-stage mod for extending the runtime. I'll be  because it is going to be hard for any light to be able to replace my new custom EDC Chrome JiL Intelli


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## BentHeadTX (Jan 4, 2006)

Normally, I would of jumped all over the L0P but....
My new years resolution to my wife was I will only purchase three lights and a charger this year! (I can do it!) Two of them have been picked out and they are keepers:
Miller Mods L1P (500mA pushing the R bin on NiMH and a two-stage switch to be used as a bicycle helmet light) When SWAH or TWAH Luxeon K2's become available I'll replace the R bin. 
Andrew Wynns BAM drop-in mod. Four SWAH Luxeon K2's, four 20mm reflectors and rotate the head for drive levels of 700mA, 350mA and 70mA per emitter. It will be used as my 400 lumen+ bike frame light and for mind blowing power when playing in the desert. 
The last one is a replacement for my Peak Matterhorn 3 Snow29 AAA keychain light. (My wife wants it on her keychain) The replacement will be a Luxeon LED AAA light and thus enters my problem. 
The Peak Ocean runs 1.5 hours to 50% on an alkaline AAA battery and I am assuming the L0P is one hour. It's head is slightly larger than the body for a larger reflector than the L0P. The length is shorter than the Matterhorn but not as short as the L0P. The Ocean comes with a momentary switch as well as twist for full on. The Ocean will have much, much better HA-III than the L0P. The price for the ocean will be cheaper than the Kino Bay ($70) so I estimate $60 to $65 for the Ocean. I get a 10% military discount so figure $54 to $58.50 for the Ocean or $8 to $11 more than the L0P. 
I can only get one and the price is not much different so I have to go on merit. Durable HA-III is very important to me on a light that rides on a keychain. My Matterhorn Snow has a new head but the body is the same one I have been using since September 2004. Still looks good after all that time banging off my keys. 
Love my L1P when used as a NiMH powered helmet light (imagine a MillerMods SWAH K2 running at 500mA!) The "HA-III" is more like HA-2.2 as it shows some good character marks already. No big deal to me as it is a helmet light. 
The extra half-hour of decently regulated runtime from an alkaline AAA (50% longer runtime), superiour HA-III, momentary switch and proven desert use reliability push me towards the Ocean. Normally, I would buy both! but I have to choose only one. Daddy wants a new Maha C808 charger! The slightly larger head will make it easier to grip so for my new EDC keychain light it looks like the Ocean wins. 
Now for the battle between the Ocean and L0P begins! As far as being worried about Peak... there is room for both of them. I just wonder what Arc thinks about the "Arc AA tail" on the L0P and Luxeon AAA keychain lights. Maybe Peter Gransee can test both of them and give us a clue if he plans on joining the battle? Arc is the one that must fear the L0P... the psuedo-Arc that Arc fans have been asking for since 2002. 
Who would of thought 6 months ago that we would have a choice in single AAA powered Luxeon lights that cost under $70???? Life is good.... life is GOOD!!!


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## cheapo (Jan 4, 2006)

looks like fenix is puling out another best seller. All I need to see is runtime and output #s. I must resist.

-David


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## cheapo (Jan 4, 2006)

have fun keeping that bet BENTHEAD. 

-David


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## Lemon328i (Jan 4, 2006)

I'm not sure if it will include it or not, but if you look at the pictures on the 4Sevens sale page, the box with the L0P has what appears to be a pocket clip!


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## cheapo (Jan 4, 2006)

if it does..... then I am sold.

-David


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## Meduza (Jan 4, 2006)

23 and 30 lumens from led, sounds like its lux1 driven at 200ma maybe ?


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## cheapo (Jan 4, 2006)

NO! it has a twisty.... man, and I already have the amilite, which will put this light to shame in terms of output and throw.

-David


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## Lemon328i (Jan 4, 2006)

cheapo said:


> NO! it has a twisty.... man, and I already have the amilite, which will put this light to shame in terms of output and throw.
> 
> -David


Sure, but it also uses a 3V CR123, so the whole L0P will be smaller in diameter than just the battery alone of the T3!


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## JimH (Jan 4, 2006)

CromagNet said:


> I'll be  because it is going to be hard for any light to be able to replace my new custom EDC Chrome JiL Intelli


Why would you need to replace the Jill. The LOP would be a great backup for the Jil. I'm sure you can find a way to carry both. Hell, I EDC over 20 lights, but then I'm just slightly crazy.


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## songled (Jan 4, 2006)

BentHeadTX said:


> Normally, I would of jumped all over the L0P but....
> My new years resolution to my wife was I will only purchase three lights and a charger this year! (I can do it!)


Maybe you can try doing some more housework and you wife will allow you buy one more 



BentHeadTX said:


> Who would of thought 6 months ago that we would have a choice in single AAA powered Luxeon lights that cost under $70???? Life is good.... life is GOOD!!!


Hope it can get even better, say Arc joint the AAA Luxeon battle with a competative price.


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## Haz (Jan 4, 2006)

This light looks great, i especially like the streamline look with the body the same size as the head.


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## Kiessling (Jan 4, 2006)

Do we have any size comparisons and runtime data yet?
I mean, size, brightness and regulation will be the deciding factors here, especially with the similar Peak light on the horizon ...
bk


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## BentHeadTX (Jan 4, 2006)

Year 2006
Day 5
Time 12:41 AM
Lights purchased this year 0
Days to go until next year 360
Average days elapsed per light purchase 120

So far, so good! 
Now, if the Proton 60 lumen K2 or Jupiter light becomes available or an Arc/Peak/Fenix multiple output Luxeon AAA arrives... this year will start turning bad! Actually, I don't think she would notice if the Ocean one day started to have a variable output and if she did, I just "upgraded" the light. Upgrades are allowed per the modify the MillerMods L1P when K2 super bins become available clause. 
Maybe I should of asked for a limit of 4 lights along with the upgrade clause. Anyone into international trafficing of flashlights?


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## LEDninja (Jan 4, 2006)

Missed Lighthound's pre Christmas L1 sale. Bought 2 Nuwai TM-310H on boxing day instead. Sigh.

Maybe I should consider myself lucky as I find AA torches a tad big and heavy for my jeans pocket. And with the Nuwai 1AAA being bright enough I can afford to wait for the reviews of the L0/L0P/Ocean to come in before deciding which to buy.


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## ICUDoc (Jan 4, 2006)

Hello all

Does anyone know if you can use a Li-ion rechargeable AAA in the LOP?
I hate the self-discherge of Ni-MH batteries!!


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## 4sevens (Jan 4, 2006)

ICUDoc said:


> Hello all
> 
> Does anyone know if you can use a Li-ion rechargeable AAA in the LOP?
> I hate the self-discherge of Ni-MH batteries!!



No way! Thats evil of you to suggest such! A 4.3v cell would probably 
let out the magic smoke inside!


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 4, 2006)

JimH said:


> Why would you need to replace the Jill. The LOP would be a great backup for the Jil. I'm sure you can find a way to carry both. Hell, I EDC over 20 lights, but then I'm just slightly crazy.


The Jil and the Photon Freedom is good enough for my 'needs' (flashaholic disability) at this time. LOL

BentHeadTX: 3 light per quarter MAYBE. good luck


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## LEDninja (Jan 4, 2006)

jezzyp said:


> RIP M*g Solitare...


In addition to the 2AA/2D flashli...er...torches the supermark...er... grocers I go to brought in 2 stacks of pocket lights. A stack of Dorcy 1AAA 1LED and a stack of Solitaires. Last time I shopped there were 2 Dorcys left. The whole stack of Solitaires are still there.
I think MagLED is arriving in the nick of time.

The low end torches like the Dorcy AAA and River Rock/Nuwai AAA at $10 will be the ones to kill the Solitaire, not the L0P/Ocean at $50-$70.


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## chrisse242 (Jan 4, 2006)

Kiessling said:


> Do we have any size comparisons and runtime data yet?
> I mean, size, brightness and regulation will be the deciding factors here, especially with the similar Peak light on the horizon ...
> bk



Fenix has a size comparison to a victorinox sak on their site.
I just took a quick pic to compare more lights with the sak. Since hotlinking is not allowed, and I don't want to "steal" the pic to host it on my site, we won't see a direct comparison. You can still save both to your disk to compare them.

Here's my pic:

peak body without lanyard screw / arc aaa head installed (the only aaa light I currently own.) / Victorinox sak /Fenix L1p







The L0P will be much more like the peak/arc combo. Around 1cm longer, only mm's thicker. Remember this one has a reflector and a lens, I can hardly imagine how one could build a shorter aaa-luxeon light with lens/reflector.
I definitly want to see one....

Chrisse


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## Visigothan (Jan 4, 2006)

...Oh great.

Thanks guys. I have to pay my rent this month. How am I going to do that *and* buy this light? I've already spent too much.


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## Kiessling (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanx chrisse !
Problem was ... the Fenix site was malfunctioning and didn't show me all it had to offer. Works better now.

Last question:

How about Energizer L92 lithium AAA primaries?

bk


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## magic79 (Jan 4, 2006)

I think it's important to keep in perspective that, with Fenix's limiting U.S. market strategy, while they have GREAT lights, they have probably sold a total number of lights in the U.S. about equal to what one WalMart sells in MagLights in a month.

CPF members are not terribly indicative of the general flashlight market.

Selling a few thousand flashlights in the U.S. is a drop in the bucket.



cheapo said:


> looks like fenix is puling out another best seller. All I need to see is runtime and output #s. I must resist.
> 
> -David


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## LightObsession (Jan 4, 2006)

This looks very tempting.

What will they call the 2AAA version when it comes out? The Fenix L00P?

Looks like a good year for small flashlights : )


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## chanamasala (Jan 4, 2006)

I'm interested in the L0. $30 and they got me.


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## songled (Jan 4, 2006)

chanamasala said:


> I'm interested in the L0. $30 and they got me.


On their websit, Fenix listed L0p (black) and L0 (black/silver). It seems the L0p will be around USD 45 according to 4Seven's post but the price for the L0 is not revealed yet. According to their L1P/L1 prices, it is possible that you will lose another $30 quite soon. :naughty:


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## TORCH_BOY (Jan 4, 2006)

Just when I was starting to get used to the L1P hear comes the L0P AAA
very tempting indeed, I was thinking about getting the peak or an Arc.
For the money I think this is a better buy


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## cheapo (Jan 4, 2006)

magic79 said:


> I think it's important to keep in perspective that, with Fenix's limiting U.S. market strategy, while they have GREAT lights, they have probably sold a total number of lights in the U.S. about equal to what one WalMart sells in MagLights in a month.
> 
> CPF members are not terribly indicative of the general flashlight market.
> 
> Selling a few thousand flashlights in the U.S. is a drop in the bucket.



I was reffering to best seller here on cpf. And I am sure CPF makes a big chunk of their total income too. 

-David


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## onthebeam (Jan 4, 2006)

LightObsession said:


> What will they call the 2AAA version when it comes out? The Fenix L00P?
> 
> Looks like a good year for small flashlights : )



Well, with their P series coming out soon, it will have to be called. . .

The Fenix POOP!!!


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## GhostReaction (Jan 4, 2006)

I ll be getting mine sometime next week, and this L0p might just force my beloved ARC to retire from my pocket


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## liteboy (Jan 4, 2006)

CromagNet said:


> I'm one who doesn't carry an Arc AAA. Because of its weak output I found I barely used it. I bet this will have a decent output but will need a 2-stage mod for extending the runtime. I'll be  because it is going to be hard for any light to be able to replace my new custom EDC Chrome JiL Intelli



CromagNet, PM sent...


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## ICUDoc (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks 4Sevens
I am hoping for a similar light that will tolerate Li-ions- but I think I should get one of these as well.....


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## schill (Jan 4, 2006)

The L0P looks very interesting. I've been carrying an L1P for a while now and just ordered an L2P (hours before the L0P news came out). It was the runtime plot on lithiums that sold me on the L2P.

I'm a little concerned about the price of the L0P, though. I think we've shown Fenix how much we are willing to spend on a light and they are sticking with that price whether it's worth it or not. Although the L1P I've got is a great light, I'm not sure it's really worth what I paid for it. The L2P looks impressive at the same price due to the regulation.

But, is the L0P, smaller (but not exceedingly small) and without fancy regulation (or so it seems), worth the same amount? I'd really like to see it cheaper than the other two.


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## thefish (Jan 4, 2006)

Well well, it looks like I am off to SSP now. Since I am on a extended “vacation” here in Hong Kong (home is in California) it is just a short jump for me to find the guys selling Fenix lights factory direct... if they have them maybe I will pick up a few for you guys...


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## ackbar (Jan 4, 2006)

jezzyp said:


> RIP M*g Solitare...



LOL

That camel's back broke many years ago


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## Planterz (Jan 4, 2006)

I just said like a couple days ago that it'd take one hell of a light to replace the Arc AAA-P on my keychain. I think I may have found a replacement.


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## greg_in_canada (Jan 5, 2006)

ICUDoc said:


> Hello all
> 
> Does anyone know if you can use a Li-ion rechargeable AAA in the LOP?
> I hate the self-discherge of Ni-MH batteries!!


 
We need those Sanyo low self-discharge NiMH cells. I can't recall if they were coming out in AA only or other formats.

Greg


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## sb0007 (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi All,

New member. Just came online and saw this AAA L0P fenix. Exciting. Cant wait to get my hands on this for my new key chain light. Current its a X1 on the bunch. Hope the review will be avail soon....Cheers to all.


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## tsask (Jan 5, 2006)

GhostReaction said:


> I ll be getting mine sometime next week, and this L0p might just force my beloved ARC to retire from my pocket


I hope it comes with a nice pocket clip!


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## LowBat (Jan 5, 2006)

LightObsession said:


> What will they call the 2AAA version when it comes out? The Fenix L00P?


Uh, if that's the case I'm definately not ordering any 2AAA versions in the "P" series!


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## EVOeight (Jan 5, 2006)

I am still just so disappointed that it doesn't have a clickie switch...


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## Varmint1 (Jan 5, 2006)

PayPal sent for 1 L0P and 1 L2P.

Thanks


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## ernsanada (Jan 5, 2006)

tsask said:


> I hope it comes with a nice pocket clip!



I just read 4 sevens thread, there is no clip.


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## Learjet (Jan 5, 2006)

EVOeight said:


> I am still just so disappointed that it doesn't have a clickie switch...


 
The lack of a clickie makes it quite a bit smaller. One less component to fail too. Plus I find tail clickies on very small lights to be difficult to manage with my fingers. Maybe it's just me. 

I might wait until the beta testers (you guys) give a report on the L0P before I part with around $70AUD for a baby light.


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## Macaw (Jan 5, 2006)

No regulation; no clickie switch. This should not be a $45 light IMHO. I will not be ordering one.


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## EVOeight (Jan 5, 2006)

They should have made an exact scale replica of the L1P, just smaller. It would have been thinner and shorter and taken cheap AAA batteries. They had a great idea with the L1P, after all it was "Flashlight of the year" here at CPF. They should have stuck with that recipe. I will not being buying one because it has no clickie...


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## glire (Jan 5, 2006)

Macaw said:


> No regulation; no clickie switch. This should not be a $45 light IMHO. I will not be ordering one.


And add to that 35% optical efficiency lost from the L1P (too small reflector).
I will not buy either.


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## Phaserburn (Jan 5, 2006)

How do we know that the circuit is different and not regulated?


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## jsr (Jan 5, 2006)

I don't own any Fenix lights, so this is likely why I'm asking this question. I was wondering why Fenix lights (mainly the L1/P and L2/P) are so popular. They are very attractive, have an HAIII finish which I really like, and are compact, but along with those, I look at other factors when buying lights (especially for lights in the Fenix's price range) such as light output and duration of that output. In looking at Quickbeams tests, on a AA battery, the L1P dropped to 75% of it's peak output in 10minutes of runtime, about 60% in 30minutes. One of the reasons I like these premium flashlights (I only have ones that run on CR123s currently) over my old Maglites and normal flashlights and am willing to pay the additional price is that the output remains high and stays there so as the battery drains, the output stays at max instead of dimming. Output maintenance is much better using NiMHs, so is that what everyone's running? Not knocking the Fenix lights, but just wondering why they're as popular as they are. A Nuwai TM-310H is only $10 - half the output for 1/4 the cost...and you can possibly mod it with a brighter LED (now that Lux1 and Lux3s are so cheap) and push more current for still much less. Would a sleek 1xCR123 1W light at similar price be as/more popular since output would be maintained for a longer time?


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## onthebeam (Jan 5, 2006)

Good questions. The curve is remarkably good, very smooth with little brightness loss for a long time, when using Lithium AAs in the L1P, and nearly as good as using NiMh. If you search earlier posts, you'll find the charts.



jsr said:


> I don't own any Fenix lights, so this is likely why I'm asking this question. I was wondering why Fenix lights (mainly the L1/P and L2/P) are so popular. They are very attractive, have an HAIII finish which I really like, and are compact, but along with those, I look at other factors when buying lights (especially for lights in the Fenix's price range) such as light output and duration of that output. In looking at Quickbeams tests, on a AA battery, the L1P dropped to 75% of it's peak output in 10minutes of runtime, about 60% in 30minutes. One of the reasons I like these premium flashlights (I only have ones that run on CR123s currently) over my old Maglites and normal flashlights and am willing to pay the additional price is that the output remains high and stays there so as the battery drains, the output stays at max instead of dimming. Output maintenance is much better using NiMHs, so is that what everyone's running? Not knocking the Fenix lights, but just wondering why they're as popular as they are. A Nuwai TM-310H is only $10 - half the output for 1/4 the cost...and you can possibly mod it with a brighter LED (now that Lux1 and Lux3s are so cheap) and push more current for still much less. Would a sleek 1xCR123 1W light at similar price be as/more popular since output would be maintained for a longer time?


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## EVOeight (Jan 5, 2006)

It can be hard to quantify why the L1P is such a nice light, but I will try. It just "feels" right. The quality of the parts, the way the switch feels, the beam intensity and color, the cheap battery requirments, the way it looks, the weight of it, the color of the anodizing, the size and shape, the design, the way the threads feel when you unscrew it, very decent run times. It just "feels" like a very nice flashlight. Maybe it is not anything in particular but overall it is just a nice EDC flashlight...


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## techjunky (Jan 5, 2006)

jsr said:


> I don't own any Fenix lights, so this is likely why I'm asking this question. I was wondering why Fenix lights (mainly the L1/P and L2/P) are so popular. They are very attractive, have an HAIII finish which I really like, and are compact, but along with those, I look at other factors when buying lights (especially for lights in the Fenix's price range) such as light output and duration of that output. In looking at Quickbeams tests, on a AA battery, the L1P dropped to 75% of it's peak output in 10minutes of runtime, about 60% in 30minutes. One of the reasons I like these premium flashlights (I only have ones that run on CR123s currently) over my old Maglites and normal flashlights and am willing to pay the additional price is that the output remains high and stays there so as the battery drains, the output stays at max instead of dimming. Output maintenance is much better using NiMHs, so is that what everyone's running? Not knocking the Fenix lights, but just wondering why they're as popular as they are. A Nuwai TM-310H is only $10 - half the output for 1/4 the cost...and you can possibly mod it with a brighter LED (now that Lux1 and Lux3s are so cheap) and push more current for still much less. Would a sleek 1xCR123 1W light at similar price be as/more popular since output would be maintained for a longer time?



Lotsa people love the fact that it runs off AA's (me included):

* You can get'em pretty much anywhere in the world or canabalize them from other electronics in a pinch.

* With digital cameras running rampant the last few years and so many of them running off AAs, lotsa folk have NiMH AAs already.

* I EDC with a lithium AA but will pop in a NiMH if I know I'll be using it more than a few minutes ahead of time.

The fact that you're placing it in the "premium" category speaks volumes about it. It's nice enough that people perceive it as noticeably better in quality but cheap enough to be within the buying power of most.

Waiting to see the run-time/brightness of the L0 :huh: in a review. If they brought the price of the L0 down to $30-35 I think there'd be a hoard of folk who'd buy it...


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## warpdrive (Jan 5, 2006)

EVOeight said:


> It can be hard to quantify why the L1P is such a nice light, but I will try. It just "feels" right. The quality of the parts, the way the switch feels, the beam intensity and color, the cheap battery requirments, the way it looks, the weight of it, the color of the anodizing, the size and shape, the design, the way the threads feel when you unscrew it, very decent run times. It just "feels" like a very nice flashlight. Maybe it is not anything in particular but overall it is just a nice EDC flashlight...


 
Agree. The main reason I like it so much is because it feels like a little jewel of a flashlight, small but capable, and feels "premium" for a not overly premium price.

The combination of excellent beam/spill + AA + sleek form with none of the pretentious/tactical styling makes it the ideal EDC. The fact you can stick a NiMH or Lithium in there doubles its versatility. You can buy better performance but not without paying a lot more (esp if you just get the regular L1 versions)


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## LEDninja (Jan 5, 2006)

jsr said:


> Not knocking the Fenix lights, but just wondering why they're as popular as they are. A Nuwai TM-310H is only $10 - half the output for 1/4 the cost...


This thread has comparison beamshots between 1, 2 and 3 TM-310H and the Fenix L1/L1P v2.5.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=99836
Looks like a TM-310H is about 1/3 the brightness of theL L1/L1P v2.5.

L1P is 26 lumens based on flashlightreviews total output * 1.43. $45 0.6 lumens per $
L1 v2.5 is ~26 lumens. $30. 1.15 lumens per $
L0P is 26*30/46=16.9 lumens. $45. 0.4 lumens per $
L0 is 26*23/46=13 lumens. $30 expected. 0.4 lumens per $
TM-310H is 26*1/3=8.7 lumens. $10. 0.87 lumens per $

The L0P/L0 seem to have the worst brightness bang for the buck. If Fenix ever get around to building the L0 I will still get one as both my TM-310H have a very purplish tint and I prefer the warmer colour temperature of luxeon lights.


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## matrixshaman (Jan 5, 2006)

JimH said:


> Why would you need to replace the Jill. The LOP would be a great backup for the Jil. I'm sure you can find a way to carry both. Hell, I EDC over 20 lights, but then I'm just slightly crazy.


And I thought I was bad - I want to see how you carry all those - Pics please!  If I could carry 20 lights I probably would :eeksign:


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## ernsanada (Jan 5, 2006)

matrixshaman said:


> And I thought I was bad - I want to see how you carry all those - Pics please!  If I could carry 20 lights I probably would :eeksign:



He must use an overcoat.


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## Perfectionist (Jan 5, 2006)

I see the L1P as an $80 torch that you can buy for about $40 = Fantastic !! 

The L0P seems to be a $40 torch that you can buy for ..... about $40 = Nothing Special


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## Diode (Jan 5, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> I see the L1P as an $80 torch that you can buy for about $40 = Fantastic !!
> 
> The L0P seems to be a $40 torch that you can buy for ..... about $40 = Nothing Special


I see both as $40 torches that you can buy for $40, plus or minus $10. :laughing:

But I prefer the L0P. For me, the L1P is too big for keychain carry, but too small for a "duty light". But that's just me. Obviously the L1P is extremely popular around here.


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## Ray_of_Light (Jan 5, 2006)

I agree before even seeing the L0P that is a great light.
No clickie switch means a smaller light and more reliable. I will use the L0P as neck ligt to replace, maybe, the Arc-AAA. I say may-be because of the shorter runtime. It help me the fact that since 2002 I never needed the Arc AAA for six consecutive hours.

As long-time flashaholic, I would point everybody' attention why these Fenix becomes an "instant hit" among us.
One of us can complain about a specific aspect of any light; I would mention the odd regulation curve of the Peaks, the uncapability of SF to stand on the tail, the impossibility of using Li-Ion in the Inova, the PWM regulation used from many, and so on.
You can recognize when a light as been integrated with "hints" from flashaholics: consider the U2, with its capability to accept 18650, the reverse clip, and multi-level at super-high efficiency.
Or the Arc-AAA, made as small as possible, and as bright as possible, running as long as possible.

Normally, flashlight designers follow their "instinct" or vision of a new flashlight; they don't parse CPF to accept any single suggestion from flashaholics before creating a new light.

The Fenix seems to have "broken" this rule that we have constantly observed with every commercial lights manufacturer. I exclude from this list our modders, the original Arc Company, and SF under some aspects.

The designer of the Fenix lights seems to have "adsorbed" all indications from all flashaholics about features of an "highly wanted" light, with the L1 and now with the L0. 
From the regulation curve, to the converter efficiency, tail standing capability, R bin LEDs, AR lens, metallic reflector, HA3 coating, body with panels, sized as small as possible, and flawless beam and tint. And last but not least, the price.

So, I infer the designer of the Fenix is one of us, or somebody who made the flashlights its own religion. 
I would like to see the person behind the Fenix lights to speak up over here.

Anthony


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## jsr (Jan 5, 2006)

Thanks for the info guys. I already knew from all the reviews of the Fenix lights that they had great build quality and I like that they have an HA3 finish. It seems like the use of AA-size batteries is what makes it really popular. That affords it the slim size and the other characteristics that many like about it. When I first found out about it, I wasn't too impressed due to the (IMO) poor runtime graph on alkaline AA, but did like the design and finish (and assumed build quality). It seems NiMH or LiIon is really needed to get good output maintanence. As I continued to look, I didn't find really any competitors in it's price range (w/ similar size and performance) which is probably why it's so popular. Most well-made small 1xCR123 and CR2 lights cost considerably more (wish I could get a Jil or Amilite). The closest competitor I could find was the Nuwai Q3. Slightly larger form factor and more output, but uses a CR123. I like the look of the Q3 (I like the look of virtually all E1L-based designs) but even before getting it, I didn't expect the same build quality as I did from Fenix (or my Streamlights or the other small CR123/CR2 lights). There are some flaws on all the Q3s I've seen (4 total), but easily acceptable minor flaws for the price and performance. I'm still very new to the flashlight collection world, so the need to purchase CR123s hasn't really hit me yet as a con. I think of it as a justified additional cost for the great output these batteries put out. I guess I'll feel this later as I run through more batteries.

I agree w/ the opinions thus far and also I wish the L0P came w/ a regulator and a clickie at $30-$35...I would get one then. At this point, I might just get a Nuwai TM-310H and mod it w/ the new lower priced Lux1 or Lux3 or even a Nichia Jupiter LEDs...cheaper and hopefully as bright.


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## JohnK (Jan 5, 2006)

The L0P seems to be a $40 torch that you can buy for ..... about $40 = Nothing Special >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Compared to WHAT, I might ask ??????

There ISN'T any other as we speak !


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## liteboy (Jan 5, 2006)

Diode said:


> I see both as $40 torches that you can buy for $40, plus or minus $10. :laughing:
> 
> But I prefer the L0P. For me, the L1P is too big for keychain carry, but too small for a "duty light". But that's just me. Obviously the L1P is extremely popular around here.



If you knew that the average Chinese laborer makes $5 US per day, you'll realize that Chinese made lights reach production at a cost far less than what you and I pay for them. However, no due credit subtracted from those responsible for designing such a worthy light and all the work and capital it takes to establish any business in China (including the need to take on Chinese "officials" as [unwanted] "business partners"). I know this b/c my father does business in China. This cheap labor is also the reason why most name brand products we Americans love so much are all being made in China these days...


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## cheapo (Jan 5, 2006)

hey guys... is it regulated??

-David


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## Blazer (Jan 5, 2006)

EVOeight said:


> It can be hard to quantify why the L1P is such a nice light, but I will try. It just "feels" right. The quality of the parts, the way the switch feels, the beam intensity and color, the cheap battery requirments, the way it looks, the weight of it, the color of the anodizing, the size and shape, the design, the way the threads feel when you unscrew it, very decent run times. It just "feels" like a very nice flashlight. Maybe it is not anything in particular but overall it is just a nice EDC flashlight...


 
For being hard to quantify I think that your post says it all, and I'd add the AA factor.


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## JimH (Jan 5, 2006)

matrixshaman said:


> And I thought I was bad - I want to see how you carry all those - Pics please!  If I could carry 20 lights I probably would :eeksign:



I posted the pics here so as not to hijack this thread. Oh, and I was wrong. When I made the pics, I actually counted the lights, and it's 25, not 20.


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## LightObsession (Jan 5, 2006)

jsr said:


> A Nuwai TM-310H is only $10 - half the output for 1/4 the cost...and you can possibly mod it with a brighter LED (now that Lux1 and Lux3s are so cheap) and push more current for still much less.



Get your facts straight - here's the comparitive outputs from flashlightreviews.com

Nuwai TM311H 2.85
Fenix L1P 18

That's a 6.3 x advantage in total output for the L1P.


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## Freedom1955 (Jan 5, 2006)

When I first got my fenix L1P I shined it on a wall at a distance of about 20 feet. I thought man that beam looks familiar. I fetched my $200 dollar HDS and compared the beams... my basic 60 GT on it's primary setting is identical be it slightly less bright than my Fenix L1P's beam,spill is the same. I then looked at the luxeon and the reflectors in both lights and guess what they look identical also. The fenix reflector is just slightly smaller in diameter. 
I'm guessing the LOP's reflector and beam will be similar.


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## lamperich (Jan 5, 2006)

cheapo said:


> hey guys... is it regulated??
> 
> -David




hi David

it´s not possible driving a Luxeon1 with only 1-1,8V
there must be a regulator inside.

maybe v2.0 i donß´t know


wonder why ARC didn´t release the first one AAA Luxeon torch


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## GhostReaction (Jan 5, 2006)

Well I wonder why the price is slightly higher for the lumens as compared to L1p:thinking:
Maybe the producer of Fenix bumped into this forum and saw how many of us SHOUTING about how damn cheap the L1p are


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## bahamut (Jan 5, 2006)

Iguess we should have kept that quiet!:lolsign: They probably used an expensive regulator similar to the one in the peak kino bay,IMO


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## JimH (Jan 5, 2006)

I've often noted that the smaller, less capable version of an item costs more than the larger version. The only thing I can figure is that the smaller one is more difficult to make and thus more expensive. Chalk it up to the cost of miniaturization.


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## tsask (Jan 5, 2006)

I recall paying alot for my 0.5 watt Nuwai AAA light somewhere over $40.

I spoke to the Fenix guy in Atlanta, nice guy who cares about his customers.
Unfortunately for $50 I want a clip on my light . I refuse to cannibalize my ARC AAA P for the clip!:huh2:


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## 4sevens (Jan 5, 2006)

JimH said:


> I've often noted that the smaller, less capable version of an item costs more than the larger version. The only thing I can figure is that the smaller one is more difficult to make and thus more expensive. Chalk it up to the cost of miniaturization.



That is my guess too. I think miniturization reduces the manufacturing 
tolerances - therefore parts need to be machine with more precision. 

I'm wondering, is there another luxeon based single AAA light with a reflector
and HAIII? :thinking:


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## Erasmus (Jan 5, 2006)

Here's my L0P : http://www.dhl.be/publish/be/en/esh...SULTS&type=fasttrack&AWB=1801008053&submit=Ok. Hope to get it tomorrow  

 Please don't send PM's to order one, I just get one for evaluation, maybe more plans in the future. I'll post a comparison with Arc-P, L1P, L2P,...

Concerning the clip : it's true there's no clip delivered with the light, but the Arc-P clip will most probably fit.


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## hookoo (Jan 5, 2006)

JimH said:


> I posted the pics here so as not to hijack this thread. Oh, and I was wrong. When I made the pics, I actually counted the lights, and it's 25, not 20.




Quick scenario type question for you. While at work, a non-flashaholic co-worker has just dropped a quarter under his desk. And he asks you for a flashlight. What one would you give to him? What is the process of elimination on choosing one?


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## Erasmus (Jan 5, 2006)

hookoo said:


> Quick scenario type question for you. While at work, a non-flashaholic co-worker has just dropped a quarter under his desk. And he asks you for a flashlight. What one would you give to him? What is the process of elimination on choosing one?


The co-worker will probably find the coin in the dark before JimH decided which flashlight to give him


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## JimH (Jan 5, 2006)

hookoo said:


> Quick scenario type question for you. While at work, a non-flashaholic co-worker has just dropped a quarter under his desk. And he asks you for a flashlight. What one would you give to him? What is the process of elimination on choosing one?



Probably give him the Jil 1.3w out of my right shirt pocket. One of the easiest lights to get to, plenty bright, and nice WOW factor for a non-flashaholic. Either that of the E1 with 3w KL4 head and McE2S, which hangs from my belt by a cell phone type button.

So many choices - so little oportunity





.


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## GrnXnham (Jan 6, 2006)

I purchased the L1P and the L2P. Great lights.

If I am going to get a light as compact as the L0P, I want to be able to use it with one hand. With no clicky, I need two hands to use this tiny little light. Yeah, I COULD turn a twisty on and off with one hand, but it's uncomfortable and slow. To me, the need for two hands kind of destroys the purpose in having a very compact light. Also, with no clicky and smaller size, the light should be cheaper than the other two Fenix lights. 

I'll pass on the L0P.


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## chanamasala (Jan 6, 2006)

GrnXnham, 

Ditto. Clickies are my preference too. If the reviews are stellar perhaps I'll spring for the L0.


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## Inferno (Jan 6, 2006)

I don't like super tiny lights.
I don't buy AAA batteries often.
I don't like twist-on switches.
I don't need another light.

I sent PayPal for one L0-P yesterday.

My name is David, and I am a Flashaholic.


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## GhostReaction (Jan 6, 2006)

You might not have noticed that the twist could be done also from the tail and not just the head since the bezel is at almost the mid-point of the L0p. Hold L0p like you would with L1p and twist the tail for on.
I ve survived with reverse clickies so I ll manage twisties as well



GrnXnham said:


> I purchased the L1P and the L2P. Great lights.
> 
> If I am going to get a light as compact as the L0P, I want to be able to use it with one hand. With no clicky, I need two hands to use this tiny little light. Yeah, I COULD turn a twisty on and off with one hand, but it's uncomfortable and slow. To me, the need for two hands kind of destroys the purpose in having a very compact light. Also, with no clicky and smaller size, the light should be cheaper than the other two Fenix lights.
> 
> I'll pass on the L0P.


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## ledvador (Jan 6, 2006)

Inferno said:


> I don't like super tiny lights.
> I don't buy AAA batteries often.
> I don't like twist-on switches.
> I don't need another light.
> ...




Thumbs up Inferno!
I ordered one too.
1 AAA Lux light is my St Graal ressearch, i think the way to the progress for this kind of light is the Luxeon 1w undredriven for looooong run time and thermal management. Is the litle AAA battery (rechargeable is 850~900mh/h)get enough power but even more than the R123A(~750mh/h)?
I would prefer one from Arc Flashlight, but it apear that Peter don't want to change his way and still prefer 5mm led for his lovely litle light, however, i think he could doing one better than the L0P and the Peak Ocean, he proved us that in the past with the LSH serie. If he will i would be in too.


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## john2551 (Jan 6, 2006)

EVOeight said:


> It can be hard to quantify why the L1P is such a nice light, but I will try. It just "feels" right. The quality of the parts, the way the switch feels, the beam intensity and color, the cheap battery requirments, the way it looks, the weight of it, the color of the anodizing, the size and shape, the design, the way the threads feel when you unscrew it, very decent run times. It just "feels" like a very nice flashlight. Maybe it is not anything in particular but overall it is just a nice EDC flashlight...


 
Perfect description! I couldn't have said it any better!


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## edison (Jan 6, 2006)

Whoa! I can't remember the last time I read an entire four page thread. :sweat:

I'm looking forward to trying one; so I ordered one from 4sevens. If the L0P meets the standard set by the L1P, it will be a hit with CPFers. I won't know for certain until mine arrives, but I'm optimistic.

There are only two details that really have me waiting in suspense. :thinking:

First, what is the knurling like on the head? Depending on how tightly the head fits and how smooth the threads are, switching action may be a little stiff. I'm hoping that the knurling is nice and sharp like the ARC AAA so I can turn it easily. I've got a single-LED PEAK Matterhorn, and the lack of knurling sucks. Regardless, I'm glad that it doesn't have a clicky for the same reasons already mentioned.

Second, will there be a foam washer? If so, will it be stuck to the head like ARCs, or to the bottom of the battery tube? This is less important that the knurling. If we're lucky, it will have a washer, and it will be in the bottom of the tube, like PEAK lights.


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## EVOeight (Jan 6, 2006)

I can't even bring myself to call a twisty a "switch". It is really just a bad connection until you tighten it up and it makes continuity again. Not really a switch. L0P should have a clickie switch!


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## waion (Jan 6, 2006)

It looks a very interesting light...probably one of the lights of the year.


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## mrdctaylor (Jan 6, 2006)

"Unfortunately for $50 I want a clip on my light . I refuse to cannibalize..."


DITTO. I've held off buying an L1P because I've got to have a clip on my EDC (currently a River Rock 2xAAA with reverse clip)--and if I'm paying $50 for a light it should fit my need. I'll continue to hold off on a Fenix purchase until they throw in (or at least offer) a clip. I'm not going to "rig" a $50 light with some canniabalized clip.

And no, I'm not upset or anything--just dissapointed. When I saw the L0P, I thought: "FINALLY! Fenix has what I want!" Oh well.


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## vic303 (Jan 6, 2006)

Nice looking, but not interested. I've got a tm310h that I like, and it has a clip and a momentary tailcap switch too. Oh, and it was less than 10$.


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## mccavazos (Jan 6, 2006)

Quick size comparison:







Please excuse the poor ps work, I only had a few free minutes to make it.

Size isn't perfect, but its really close.

Do we have an arc killer?


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## ViReN (Jan 6, 2006)

vic303 said:


> Nice looking, but not interested. I've got a tm310h that I like, and it has a clip and a momentary tailcap switch too. Oh, and it was less than 10$.


 :lolsign: Be Careful ... Be Very Very Careful what you say :lolsign: :nana:  

Yes Nuwai's are 1/2 Watt and cost *$10.... !...$10 .... *  

Fenix L0P AAA is a 1 Watt Luxeon... (now Luxeon cost's $3+) ....


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## Mike abcd (Jan 6, 2006)

ledvador said:


> ...
> Is the litle AAA battery (rechargeable is 850~900mh/h)get enough power but even more than the R123A(~750mh/h)?
> ...



An R123 has roughly 3 times as much power as a AAA NiMH cell. Remember power equals voltage times current and the R123 has an average volatge of almost 3x a NiMH AAA. Of course it's a lot bigger too.

Mike


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## Mike abcd (Jan 6, 2006)

Looks like they even put a slot in the tail cap so you can pivot the key ring out of the way to tail stand it.

Nice to see that attention to detail.

Mike


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## jsr (Jan 6, 2006)

LightObsession said:


> Get your facts straight - here's the comparitive outputs from flashlightreviews.com
> 
> Nuwai TM311H 2.85
> Fenix L1P 18
> ...


 
Sorry, I was basing off Pd only (1W vs. 0.5W).

The L1P is quickly getting my interest. Uh oh, it might get my money too...damnit!


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## greenLED (Jan 6, 2006)

EVOeight said:


> I can't even bring myself to call a twisty a "switch". It is really just a bad connection until you tighten it up and it makes continuity again. Not really a switch. L0P should have a clickie switch!



And how is the clicking mechanism different from breaking the continuity of a circuit? Twisty's are simpler, less parts to fail, allow shorter lights. I still like clicky's but you're simply not going to get them in a small light.


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## BlackDecker (Jan 6, 2006)

mrdctaylor said:


> "Unfortunately for $50 I want a clip on my light . I refuse to cannibalize..."
> 
> 
> DITTO. I've held off buying an L1P because I've got to have a clip on my EDC (currently a River Rock 2xAAA with reverse clip)--and if I'm paying $50 for a light it should fit my need. I'll continue to hold off on a Fenix purchase until they throw in (or at least offer) a clip. I'm not going to "rig" a $50 light with some canniabalized clip.
> ...



The Fenix L1P comes with a nylon belt holster. I find it does the job quite well without adding the bulk of a clip.


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## PacketStorm (Jan 6, 2006)

> Poor Peak, if they can't match their price.


  

Poor Peak? Poor ARC!

I've got to say this guys...<flameshield><rant>
Several of you boldly post in this thread that you WILL NOT be purchasing one of these L0P's because it has no clickie. Yet the ARC-AAA never has, nor ever will have, a clickie and everyone drooled over it back in the day - and is still quite sought after even now. To my knowledge that is not one of the things listed in the "cons" column on any of the reviews. I don't see the same posts over in the ARC forum where people are saying they have no interest in buying an ARC-AAA. Why such disgust by the lack of a clickie cap? :shrug: 

Not only would a clickie cap make it that much longer (it's already got a lens, reflector and a Lux I emitter to add to the length of a AAA) - but has anyone ever seen a clickie in production that small? Would you press it with the stylus of a PDA?  </flameshield></rant>

It looks like Fenix is on an absolute roll. They are the company to keep your eye on in 2006!  Who knows what they are going to come up with in the next 359 days! :rock:


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## mrdctaylor (Jan 6, 2006)

"The Fenix L1P comes with a nylon belt holster. I find it does the job quite well without adding the bulk of a clip."


Yeh, but I work in an office/business casual environment and like to clip it to the inside of my front pants pocket. Personally, I hate having crap hanging on my belt. I guess I wouldn't mind the holster for going hunting/fishing, but not to wear to work. Maybe its just me. Nevertheless, I'm holding out for a clip, since that is the only way I'd want to EDC it. And if I'm not going to EDC it, why buy a light that small?


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## xochi (Jan 6, 2006)

Fenix is coming out with some cool stuff but discounting 5 mm based AAA lights for luxeon based AAA lights is premature. I modded an Arc-AAA with a Nichia CS and found it phenomenally usefull. Typically, I would carry it in addition to a luxeon based light. The clear advantage to carrying the 5mm AAA light is that I expended near zero mental energy in insuring that I had energy for it or worrying that I'd be lightless at the wrong time. Only on very rare occasions would I need five hours of continuous light but this runtime translates into messing with the battery only once a month, if that, and still feeling comfortable that I've a reliable quantity of light. Many of us will mainly rely on nimh's to power the L0P and coupled with its much shorter runtime (over 5mm lights) the net effect is higher maintenance. The real value in the L0P , the Ocean and perhaps even the MAG-LED Solitaire, will reveal itself when runtime plots are available. The actual curve may be one of a very limited time of stable output with alkaline batteries. If this is the case then, for my uses , a luxeon based AAA just isn't practical for primetime. Yet.


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## PacketStorm (Jan 6, 2006)

xochi said:


> Fenix is coming out with some cool stuff but discounting 5 mm based AAA lights for luxeon based AAA lights is premature....Only on very rare occasions would I need five hours of continuous light but this runtime translates into messing with the battery only once a month, if that, and still feeling comfortable that I've a reliable quantity of light....The real value in the L0P , the Ocean and perhaps even the MAG-LED Solitaire, will reveal itself when runtime plots are available.



xochi:
Excellent point! That is why I feel very comfortable knowing I always have my ARC-AAA close by - that huge runtime. I think to be TRULY an outstanding piece of engineering, the L0P would have an adjustable brightness function. As-is it trades off useful runtime for useful brightness. If that were addressed, it becomes something of a keychain AAA sized HDS EDC!!  Now *THAT* would sell like crazy!

Really good points you made...


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## Perfectionist (Jan 6, 2006)

Although the L0 isn't quite yet on my shopping list ..... It's incredible what Fenix is producing at their first attempt !!

I can't wait to see the improved version 2/3/4 etc of these Fenix lights ..... brighter LED, regulated output, multi-level brightness, clever EDC clip etc etc 

Maybe, eventually, a flashlight which the modders can't improve upon !!


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## jeremycollins (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm in the exact same boat. I'd love to be able to clip the Fenix (either the L1P or L0P) to the inside of my dress pants. Otherwise it's just too bulky resting at the bottom of my pocket. 

I'll probably buy this anyways and hope for a clip to be developed later. 



mrdctaylor said:


> "The Fenix L1P comes with a nylon belt holster. I find it does the job quite well without adding the bulk of a clip."
> 
> 
> Yeh, but I work in an office/business casual environment and like to clip it to the inside of my front pants pocket. Personally, I hate having crap hanging on my belt. I guess I wouldn't mind the holster for going hunting/fishing, but not to wear to work. Maybe its just me. Nevertheless, I'm holding out for a clip, since that is the only way I'd want to EDC it. And if I'm not going to EDC it, why buy a light that small?


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## cave dave (Jan 6, 2006)

I use a Berkly point Micro 'biner like Clip and clip that to the edge of the pocket. 
That method works really well on the L1p. It hangs vertically totaly inside the pocket, without touching the bottom. It makes Pocket cary virtually unnoticable, and is very secure. Sometimes a bit too secure.

I recommend the Mini or Micro (size 2) not the nano as it is too small to unclip easily.

Edit: picture added: *X-ray view*, the flashlight is actually inside my pocket!


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## Kenski (Jan 6, 2006)

cave dave said:


> I use a Berkly point Micro 'biner like Clip and clip that to the edge of the pocket.
> That method works really well on the L1p. It hangs vertically totaly inside the pocket, without touching the bottom. It makes Pocket cary virtually unnoticable, and is very secure. Sometimes a bit too secure.
> 
> I recommend the Mini or Micro (size 2) not the nano as it is too small to unclip easily.
> ...



Cave Dave, you and I have a lot in common. 
I too, carry my L1P this way (when I don't have on a jacket or vest of some sort, with a zip-pocket). In my book, it beats a clip mounted to the flashlight body; if I use a clip and try to EDC my little light 'mostly inside' my pocket I always trash my clips, eventually. The leverage of bending down or squatting behind equipment racks to look at something always overcomes the poor little clip.

And like you, I also appreciate low-lumen/long-run lights like you do (tech diving).

P.S. I like the X-ray vision shot!

Kenski


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## Mike abcd (Jan 7, 2006)

A clickie would have probably made it possible to modify it into a 2 stage twistie ala L1(P). Given the limited run time a little(?) extra length could have dranatically enhanced its usefulness in the real world.

Mike


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## TORCH_BOY (Jan 7, 2006)

I'm still deciding whether or not to buy one, I like the size thats probably
the only advantage over the L1P. I like the runtime of the L1P and also
the Clikie, the L1P is still my choice EDC,


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## randyo (Jan 7, 2006)

I am another "agonizing" over whether I "need" an L0P. After all, my ARC AAA-P is so handy and reliable. I keep telling myself that I don't really need the increased brightness offered by the new baby Fenix. BUT - it was raining hard when I came home from work tonight. I stood by me front door and pulled out the ARC to verify that one of my gutter downspouts was not plugged and draining properly. It's about 20' from my front door. The ARC just did not have enough light to illuminate clearly whether or not water was exiting the downspout. I pulled the L1P out of my shoulder bag and VOILA !!!! More than enough photons to do the job. Obviously the L0P will not be quite as bright as the L1P, but after this "real world" expirement, it will be hard to resist an L0P. BUT - I only have room for one mini in my phone pouch. 
What to do?? What to do??


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## Inferno (Jan 7, 2006)

Randyo: What to do? Get a pouch that holds two lights and your phone, or a seperate pouch to hold your new light; either way, as a member of this forum, it is your civic duty to buy another light even if you don't need it, and carry it even if you have two or three others already strapped on you. I think it even says so in the forum rules, you have to buy at least one light a month... ^_^


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## Lightmeup (Jan 7, 2006)

This thread makes me realize that it would be impossible to design the 'perfect' flashlight. Some people are going to object to the same features that others love. C'mon guys, what isn't a compromise in life?

LMU


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## ViReN (Jan 7, 2006)

Lightmeup said:


> This thread makes me realize that it would be impossible to design the 'perfect' flashlight. Some people are going to object to the same features that others love. C'mon guys, what isn't a compromise in life?
> 
> LMU



If single flashlight model does not suite every needs... why not have multiple models / multiple options...

like optional tail switch... optional clip .... etc etc...

it may not make everyone happy.. but atleast almost all of them satisfied....

why to compromise when you can have options?


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## jayflash (Jan 7, 2006)

Inferno, I enjoy your posts and humor. Its seems that I've been following that one-per-month "rule" you mentioned, without having it been a conscientous decision, since becomming a CPFer - it's starting to add up. Since I just got a new Arc AAA, which my wife decided she wanted for her keychain, I'll have a few weeks to ponder an LOP purchase. Maybe the next-better-yet-small-light will come out before that.


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## ikendu (Jan 7, 2006)

mccavazos said:


> Quick size comparison:



I hope you don't mind...but I added in other flashlights too! 







I really like the new 1/2 watt Chrome on brass w/side clickee from Advance Mart ($12).

Although, I've been wondering when I might replace my aging ARC AAA green. Maybe it is about time?


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## 45/70 (Jan 7, 2006)

Looks like another good offering from Fenix! I was holding out for the Peak Ocean but, well, you know how that goes.

As far as the absence of a clickie on the L0/P, I think if it keeps the size down, it's worth it. I'm a "clickie" person. Back when they became popular on more common flashlights, they were a huge improvement over the sliding copper strip of the 60's (DUH!).

I have used flashlights daily for inspections at work and, at home for general use many years now. I have to admit however, that the number one reason for flashlight failure, other than bulb or batteries, has been switch failure. On the other hand, I've yet to have a "twistie" fail. So, somewhat reluctantly I'm a "twistie" person too.

Dave


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## Inferno (Jan 7, 2006)

Thanks, Jayflash! I never planned on the "one-a-month" thing either, but I did the math and it just turned out that way. 

I'm also gtting sucked in R/C planes, thanks to the same friend who got me into flashlights. Here's the thing: I don't buy the expensive, near-perfection lights like the Surefire's; I got for the cheaper stuff that I cn take apart and tinker with. Same with the R/C stuff, I got that helicopter from Radio Shack, a Corsair park flyer from Wal-Mart, then went back to Radio Shack and picked up another cheap park flyer that looks like a yellow version of the "bird dog" used for artillary spotting in Viet Nam. I think I'm addicted to the whole tinkering thing, I love trying to mess around with and build stuff. 

Back to the girlfriend issue, I gave her my Photon knock-off that came with a Light Hound order; the other day, she was trying to find something and said, "Oh, I have that light you gave me!" and turned it on. Now the seed has been planted! She's already discovering the beauty of having a knife on her (Kershaw). A few more months, and I'll be able to get away with buying her flashlights for gifts-- hey, it's cheaper than a diamond and you get more shine.


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## Vikas Sontakke (Jan 7, 2006)

I am little dissapointed that L0P is not as small as Arc AAA :-(

- Vikas


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## Mike abcd (Jan 10, 2006)

45/70 said:


> ...
> 
> As far as the absence of a clickie on the L0/P, I think if it keeps the size down, it's worth it. I'm a "clickie" person. Back when they became popular on more common flashlights, they were a huge improvement over the sliding copper strip of the 60's (DUH!).
> ...
> Dave




No clickie probably means no 2 stage mod. I guess I've gotten spoiled quickly with multi stage lights. I find the 2.7 ohm output on my L1P provides enough light for 80-90% of my use including candle mode and love the 15+ hour run time along with the full output when I need it.

That said, even with a much shorter run time, it'll probably replace the Nichia modded Dorcy 1AAA that's always in a pocket. The L1P gets grabbed when I need more or anytime I'm out of the house.


Mike


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## voodoogreg (Jan 10, 2006)

Vikas Sontakke said:


> I am little dissapointed that L0P is not as small as Arc AAA :-(
> 
> - Vikas




I'm in!
me too, but it's not much bigger (actually smaller then I had thought) and with a Lux and reflector no real way to make it smaller. I do believe, i would like a L1P but i love little light's, and this one seem's like the one to start the production Lux 1xAAA style light with a bang.
I understand some that find it less then earth shattering but i think of all the 1xAAA custom's from 60 to hundreds of $$ and I think that's why this a production light for littlemore then an ARC is the biggest deal. nor does it hurt that the fenix is alrady got a rep as a good light build finish, and performance I'm signing up now! VDG


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## brightnorm (Jan 10, 2006)

Vikas Sontakke said:


> I am little dissapointed that L0P is not as small as Arc AAA :-(
> 
> - Vikas


I'm sure the LOP is a fine light but I rejected it when I saw how big it was and how short a runtime it had. It didn't have a logical place in my daily carry. My EDC includes the keyring-carried ARC AAA (latest version). It is my backup; tiny, surprisingly bright and I know it will provide at least 5 or 6 hours of reliable light. I carry the Peak Caribbean in my front pocket. It is much brighter than the LOP, barely larger and burns as long or longer. My other EDCs are more powerful and versatile though still very small and light. Of course, since _"_two is one and one is none" no_ "_real" flashaholic carries only one light* and each of us has his own concept of an appropriate EDC combination.

Brightnorm 

*This was the subject of a lengthy thread quite a while ago. Although I posted it somewhat tongue-in-cheek it turned into a fascinating discussion. I think the title was something like _"You're Not A Real Flashaholic If You Only Carry One Light"_


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## Robban (Jan 10, 2006)

Mike abcd said:


> No clickie probably means no 2 stage mod.
> Mike


I managed to make my 2AAA green laser a two stage so it's possible. My solution is ugly as hell (not visible from the outside) but it works and is completely reversible. I'm sure the same idea would work for the Fenix. But with all the great modders we have around here I'm sure they would come up with a much better solution in no time


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## paulr (Jan 10, 2006)

Just caught up on this thread though I noticed it a few days earlier. Some thoughts:

1) (to jsr) - if you're used to minimags going dim and you're not experienced with led lights, you have to understand, it's totally different. When an incan light goes dim its output becomes yellow, then orange, then useless. You really feel the dimness. When a led light goes dim its color stays the same and you barely notice any change even though it's < half as bright as it was an hour ago. So the L1p runtime curve even on an alkaline is no big deal. But I think most of us use nimh cells in them for near-zero operating cost, and those give fairly flat curves.

2. NewBie's measurements show the L1p conversion circuit is quite inefficient (about 50%) compared to the circuits in the Arc and Dorcy AAA lights (75%+). That translates into a considerable output or runtime boost by upgrading the circuit, and which could make an upgrade L0p supply maybe 2/3 of the photons of an L1p despite having only half the battery capacity.

3. The L0P looks a bit big to carry on a keychain, and the non-centered way the split ring is attached makes it awkward too. I'd probably want to attach a BP mini-clip like on my Arc. I hope it's possible to fit a large enough split ring to the L0P to accomodate the mini-clip.

4. Various people have modded the Arc AAA with Luxeons typically running at 150 ma or so, and those worked quite well, so the 1AAA Luxeon concept is sound. As for L0p vs Peak Ocean, time will tell.

5. As for runtime from a small, low-output light, I have one of those cheap "fauxtons" (I love that term) doing a runtime test since last night. After THIRTY HOURS it's still putting out some light, though it's pretty dim (maybe = Photon Freedom at near its dimmest setting). I could find my way to the bathroom with it if I had to though. At 6 hours (iirc) it was about equal to a stock CMG Infinity which some of you might remember was a popular and practical light in its day. So we all should have something like that as a backup.

6. Much as I like the Arc AAA and the spirit of flashaholism that created it, for a flashaholic it just doesn't gain that much compared with a coin cell light. (It wins for non-flashaholics because replacement batteries are so easy to obtain and install). So, developments like the L0p make 1aaa lights a lot more interesting.

7) With a good forthcoming K2 led (equiv to lux1 s-flux) and a more efficient circuit, some future L0p/Ocean might even out-lumenize today's L1/L1p and still have reasonable runtime.

8) It's unfortunate LRI postponed releasing the Proton for so long. The L1/p has pretty much taken over the 1AA space now. But the Proton has about everything people have asked for in terms of dimmability etc.

Well enough for now.

8)


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## tron3 (Jan 10, 2006)

EVOeight said:


> No clicky tail switch? Why would they do that???:huh2:


 
Kind of hard to make something that thin have a click bottom. Lots of fat fingers out there.

But this perfect for a pocket carry. I often need a flashlight to take the trash out at night, and I leave my edc in my bedroom when I get home. I always keep my keys on me and this will really come in handy.


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## Robocop (Jan 23, 2006)

With so many threads going on about this light it was hard to decide where to actually post. I will start here and say that the L0P is truly an incredible light.

I am lucky enough to have a G/F who pays attention to this forum and figured out exactly what I would like for my Bday...yes she got me an L0P and what a nice suprise it was....especially since I got it a little early.

The light is functionally for me no bigger than the ARC AAA that I keep handy at all times. It is a little larger however not enough for me to really notice. The run time is short however again at over an hour this is plenty for me. It is very easy to always have a spare AAA handy.

The output is simply incredible for such a small light. The reflector must be well thought out on this light as it has zero artifacts and a nice spot with a very wide corona. I would say with a lithium AAA the output is pretty close to my QIII when using a standard 3 volt cell. Of course my QIII has been modded with a T bin lux yet the L0P has a very nice tint as well.

I have said it before however will say it again and that is Fenix has surely impressed me lately. They have gained my respect and made me a customer as I like their speedy development and the fact they seem to be dialed in to what we like here. For years we talked of such a light however it never seemed to happen...now it is here and to my suprise it is actually more than I thought it would be.

I have no real idea of how the finish will hold up however again this is of little importance to me. I like the simple design and the reliable twisty switch is also a plus for me. I will most likely also purchase the standard version when available and for once I really think that I will leave this light as is. I usually always try to find ways to mod any new light I have however this one really is perfect as is.

I really do think my ARC and this L0P will both reside on my keychain as they compliment each other very well I believe. To sum this all up I say bravo to Fenix and I really do not see how they will top this light. Makes me curious to see what they will offer to us next.


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## rodmeister (Jan 23, 2006)

Just got my LOP today and noticed that if I ground the bottom flange for the split ring I could shorten the light by 1/8". Might not be worth the effort but if you don't need the split ring hole (I plan to use a pen type clip) you could make the light slightly shorter.


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## andylee (Feb 16, 2006)

The fenix light is good! Is it made in china?


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## thezman (Feb 16, 2006)

andylee said:


> The fenix light is good! Is it made in china?


 
Yes.


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## tdhg566 (Feb 17, 2006)

ICUDoc said:


> Hello all
> 
> Does anyone know if you can use a Li-ion rechargeable AAA in the LOP?
> I hate the self-discherge of Ni-MH batteries!!


 
I have successfully used some generic Ni-MH batteries in my L0P. Obviously not for long, as I've only had it a week, but they seem to be fine. Certainly don't run hot or anything.


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## this_is_nascar (Feb 17, 2006)

Regarding "running hot", I'd debate that as it relates to the (2) FOP's that I have. On E2's, after 15-minutes, the FOP runs much hotter than what I'd prefer. I'd consider it hotter than warm, but certainly not to hot to touch or hold. It does make me want to NOT use my FOP for any length of constant time.


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## Inferno (Feb 17, 2006)

I never carried a flashlight on my keychain before, not even a Photon-- but the Fenix is now there. The HAIII is wearing thin where the ring is, but the rest of the light stil looks new. The brass marks from the keys just rub right off. Everyone is wow'd by this amazing little light! Best of all, my g/f confuses it with the larger Fenix, so she doesn't know I actually have this thing... ^_^


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## JohnK (Feb 17, 2006)

I simply LOVE the LOP (and the other two).

I've never had a key chain with real throw, AND white tint, AND great spill light. Can't be beat.


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## this_is_nascar (Feb 18, 2006)

I may have missed it, but am I guarenteed a failure of the emitter or electronics if I slap one of those AAA-sized 3.x volt rechargable cells in the FOP? Yes, I know the warantee is voided, etc, but is there any chance at all the light would continue to function?


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## Navck (Feb 18, 2006)

*Poof* It goes, its head is ment for 1.5 volts, L2p can do 3.0 since its alkaline okay.


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## xochi (Feb 18, 2006)

Navck, certain versions of L1P (ss and 2.0) have drivers that go DD with li-ion. Are you certain the L0P isn't like this? Has anybody actually tried or know enough about the l0P driver to say for certain? I'm sure that TIN knows that the L0P does boost , he just isn't sure if it, like some L1P's will go DD on li-ion.


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## MillerMods (Feb 19, 2006)

I like the L0P so much that I had to make it better. 3-stages make the L0P the most versitile flashlight that I've ever owned


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## bucken (Feb 19, 2006)

I've tried using a rechargeable Lithium Ion (AAA size) in my L0P. I think the number is 10440 (it's the same battery used in Andrew's Nano). My emitter seems to hold up OK, and it makes the L0P output AT LEAST as good as the stock L1P (maybe slightly more). The bad news is that, after the first couple minutes, the light output starts dimming quickly. It also starts heating up, almost immediately (and CAN get really hot). A fresh charged battery, however, really puts the spark back into the output, again. I don't think there is enough mah in the battery to maintain the higher output for very long. Replacing a normal battery into the L0P brought mine right back to where it was (as stock).

If you want more output out of the L0P, I think that MillerMod's 2 or 3 stage mod is a MUCH better way to go. I've been using one of his L1P mods, and he's currently doing another for me. A pleasure to work with, and recommended highly.


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