# Samsung ICR18650-28A (18650 2800MAH)



## xpea (Dec 29, 2008)

Hello 

My well know supplier for batteries has now in stock large qty of Samsung ICR18650-28A rated at 2800mAH. I already bought from him ICR18650-26C (2600MAH) and I'm very pleased with it. 
googling this new reference I found one interesting link :
www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/productdata/pdf/ba_sdili-ion2800_us_eng_v1.pdf

So it seems that this new model really exists. Now I'm wondering if some cpf member already got this 2800MAH battery and what he thinks about it.

Thx
Xpea


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## jirik_cz (Dec 29, 2008)

Nice. 

Any info about the dealer ?


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## xpea (Dec 29, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> Nice.
> 
> Any info about the dealer ?


Well could not resist... put the trigger on 4pcs... it will arrive in 2 days :naughty:

The vendor is from Shanghai and he's an official distributor of PANASONIC, LG and SAMSUNG cells. 

If a respectable cpf member want to test one and will publish capacity number and discharge graphs, I can send it for review


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## jirik_cz (Dec 29, 2008)

It would be nice to see a test by silverfox


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## xpea (Dec 29, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> It would be nice to see a test by silverfox


Nice idea, I contact him immediately


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## Ryanrpm (Jan 3, 2009)

Any feedback yet on these new batteries? I'm in the market for a good high capacity 18650...


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## vincebdx (Jan 3, 2009)

xpea said:


> Well could not resist... put the trigger on 4pcs... it will arrive in 2 days :naughty:
> 
> The vendor is from Shanghai and he's an official distributor of *PANASONIC*, LG and SAMSUNG cells.
> 
> If a respectable cpf member want to test one and will publish capacity number and discharge graphs, I can send it for review


Can you have NCR18650 2900mAh Panasonic ? 

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2247590&postcount=51


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## xpea (Jan 3, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> Any feedback yet on these new batteries? I'm in the market for a good high capacity 18650...


I received the cells yesterday:





Seems good so far. Put one in CL1H 3SD Q5 and got 1 hour 44 min runtime on high. Compared to 1 hour 25 min with AW2200, I think it's a valuable improvement 

Will send one pc to Silverfox for more scientific review. 


Regarding the Pana 2900mah, well it's very difficult to source. My supplier told me that all production is reserved for high-end laptops and the few ones we see on ebay for example are grade B or C stuff rejected by battery manufacturers... So it's better to stay away from it. The Samsung are finally the best choice right now.


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## Phaserburn (Jan 3, 2009)

Soooo, how can we get some of these? How much were they? I am assuming they are bare cells, with no protection circuit. Are they flat or buttontop?


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## xpea (Jan 3, 2009)

I think they are without protection circuit (someone can confirm ? :candle but I really don't care because all my lights have under voltage protection...

Otherwise, they are flat (no button top). well I mean they have a button but it's aligned on the top (is it clear ?)

To get some, I can give the supplier by PM but he's in Shanghai (China), he doesn't speak English and I don't know if he does export :thinking:


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## csshih (Jan 5, 2009)

no protection circuit.

interesting. my old samsung cells are green.

China, from what I know, cant export li-ions.


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## ltiu (Jan 5, 2009)

csshih said:


> China, from what I know, cant export li-ions.


 
Why?


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## etc (Jan 13, 2009)

xpea said:


> I think they are without protection circuit (someone can confirm ? :candle but I really don't care because all my lights have under voltage protection...



How would these cells work with Malkoff M60 LED module?


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## kramer5150 (Jan 13, 2009)

csshih said:


> China, from what I know, cant export li-ions.



Are you sure?... how does DX get around it?


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## baterija (Jan 13, 2009)

csshih said:


> China, from what I know, cant export li-ions.



Hmm looks like China exports a lot of li-ions. I did hear about a short term limit on shipment by air that was related to safety/security concerns during the Olympics. I would assume that ban has passed.


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## AlexGT (Jan 13, 2009)

I would be so in for a 2900mah protected Li-ion if the capacity holds true in a test


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## xpea (Jan 14, 2009)

these 2800mah work fine so far. I will send today one piece to Silverfox for testing. expect a review soon...


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## jirik_cz (Jan 22, 2009)

It looks like that LG has also 2800mAh 18650 batteries - ICR18650C1
http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/corporate/environ/Y085C_Y084C_R640C.pdf

And there are some auctions on taobao that are offering Samsung ICR18650-30A (3000mAh) batteries.

Strange thing is that is impossible to find some information about these high capacity batteries on the internet


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## xpea (Jan 22, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> It looks like that LG has also 2800mAh 18650 batteries - ICR18650C1
> http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/corporate/environ/Y085C_Y084C_R640C.pdf
> 
> And there are some auctions on taobao that are offering Samsung ICR18650-30A (3000mAh) batteries.
> ...


be careful. they are even more fakes on taobao than on ebay ! :shakehead
and these 3000mah samsung are definitively fakes (I've got confirmation from official sansumg distributor). 


From EMS tracking, the 2800mah cell I've send to silverfox is passing now the US customs. He should get it this week.


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## jirik_cz (Jan 22, 2009)

Looking forward for the test results


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## xpea (Jan 22, 2009)

Got information just now that new Sanyo 3000mah will be available after Chinese new year at my regular trustable vendor. I will buy some to test 

edit: these 3000mah Sanyo have been measured at 2900mah minimum. sounds good to me


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## cree_buyer (Jan 22, 2009)

3000mAh Sanyo 18650's ???

GROUP BUY TIME! :grouphug: count me in!


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 23, 2009)

cree_buyer said:


> 3000mAh Sanyo 18650's ???
> 
> GROUP BUY TIME! :grouphug: count me in!


+1


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## etc (Jan 23, 2009)

RE: M60

The word from Gene M. is that M60 is a regulated module and will drain the non-protected cells beyond return, without you noticing. Don't use them with Malkoff modules.


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## AlexGT (Jan 24, 2009)

cree_buyer said:


> 3000mAh Sanyo 18650's ???
> 
> GROUP BUY TIME! :grouphug: count me in!


 
+2


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## Fusion (Jan 25, 2009)

AlexGT said:


> +2



+3


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## flex76italy (Jan 25, 2009)

Fusion said:


> +3



+4


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## vincebdx (Jan 25, 2009)

cree_buyer said:


> 3000mAh Sanyo 18650's ???
> 
> GROUP BUY TIME! :grouphug: count me in!


+5


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## Mseize (Jan 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *cree_buyer*
> 
> 
> _3000mAh Sanyo 18650's ???_
> ...





+ 6 :wave:

...with the compatible charger.:thumbsup:


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## Phaserburn (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm in!

+7

:tinfoil:


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## Mike Painter (Jan 25, 2009)

A D cell has about 3x the volume of the 18650.
2900 in a 18650 means about 8700 in a D...


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## xpea (Jan 26, 2009)

Mike Painter said:


> A D cell has about 3x the volume of the 18650.
> 2900 in a 18650 means about 8700 in a D...


hmm you cannot do the math like that, you forget that a 18650 is 3.7V when D is 1.2V...

And for people interested in Sanyo 3000mah group buy, let me check first how much qty my supplier will get. I know these cells are available in very limited qty for retail, as the laptop manufacturers get everything for their battery pack...


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## Bullet Bob (Jan 26, 2009)

What is the current draw that the battery is capable of?


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## xpea (Jan 26, 2009)

Bullet Bob said:


> What is the current draw that the battery is capable of?


For new Sanyo 3000mah I don't know but for Samsung ICR18650-28A, from the datasheet:


> *1. Scope *
> This product specification has been prepared to specify the rechargeable lithium-ion cell ('cell') to be supplied to customer
> 
> *
> ...


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## Mike Painter (Jan 26, 2009)

xpea said:


> hmm you cannot do the math like that, you forget that a 18650 is 3.7V when D is 1.2V...
> 
> And for people interested in Sanyo 3000mah group buy, let me check first how much qty my supplier will get. I know these cells are available in very limited qty for retail, as the laptop manufacturers get everything for their battery pack...



A "D" cell refers to the size, not the chemistry and there are several D and C sized cells already available with the same chemistry.


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## xpea (Jan 26, 2009)

Mike Painter said:


> A "D" cell refers to the size, not the chemistry and there are several D and C sized cells already available with the same chemistry.


ok I see, sorry for misunderstanding.

I did not find any information about these D cells on Sanyo, LG and Samsung sites. So I believe lithium leaders are focused in high volume market for top performance cells like the 18650s used in laptops. In consequense, second players can go to smaller markets like flashlights but I doubt you will find the best cells here.

That why I think 18650 will always have the best power density of any other cells.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Jan 26, 2009)

Phaserburn said:


> I'm in!
> 
> +7
> 
> :tinfoil:


me too

+8


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## Splunk_Au (Jan 27, 2009)

How come we dont see flashlight dealers or the marketplace? I'm sure such high cap 18650 would sell well.


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## xpea (Jan 27, 2009)

Splunk_Au said:


> How come we dont see flashlight dealers or the marketplace? I'm sure such high cap 18650 would sell well.


I don't understand too...

Now we have only 2 choices :
1. high quality, average capacity, AW
2. low chinese quality ultrafire, trustfire, whateverfire with over-rated specs

But where's high capacity Sanyo, LG, Panasonic and Samsung cells ? I'm using now 2800mah Samsung and they are very good performers. 

I will check after Chinese new year if I can carry these branded high quality, high capacity cells to the marketplace. The biggest problem is availability as the vast majority of the production goes to laptop battery packs for big computer brands like Dell, HP, Lenovo...
Other issue is to find them at reasonable price...
and finally shipment from China (wheere I live) must be reliable and cheap...

checking now all these things


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## Mike Painter (Jan 27, 2009)

Splunk_Au said:


> How come we dont see flashlight dealers or the marketplace? I'm sure such high cap 18650 would sell well.


A very limited market is one reason.
We represent a very small percentage of flashlight users and most here are still using C, D, AA and 123's. 
A dealer is going to have to find a distributor who is willing to sell small quantities (and 1000 a month would be small) in order to make any profit at all.
At that price point the difference between suggest retail and wholesale will be small.
Most people will buy a no name 2600 (or so it says) battery over his 2900 if the price difference is enough. It's not worth the gamble.

There is a remarkable similarity between the growth of LED flashlights and the computer industry.
One thing that shows how small this business is however is that no gray market developed.


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## xpea (Jan 27, 2009)

Mike Painter said:


> A very limited market is one reason.
> We represent a very small percentage of flashlight users and most here are still using C, D, AA and 123's.
> A dealer is going to have to find a distributor who is willing to sell small quantities (and 1000 a month would be small) in order to make any profit at all.
> At that price point the difference between suggest retail and wholesale will be small.
> ...


good remarks Mike.

But I don't understand the bold statement. What kind of gamble are you talking about ? Buying no name (= not sure at all about the specs and the reliability) or buying recognized trusted brand like Sanyo or Panasonic ? IMHO, the later is a much more secure buy...
By the way, I think they deserve totally different kind of customer:
- No mane for the guy looking only for best price and nothing else. 
- Branded for the guy looking for best performance and quality. 

Since beginning of commerce, these 2 different offers coexist and I believe it will stay like this for long time...


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## Splunk_Au (Jan 27, 2009)

Exactly, I dont understand what you mean by "limited market" Remember when AW first released 2200mAh 18650 cells? At that time, these were top as well and similar capacities were also used for laptops too.

Now there are 2 unknown issues here.

1. These higher cap cells have already been developed for some time, why doesn't anyone here (or AW) carry them? 2600mAh 18650 are readily available on many online stores.

2. If people are able to sell such new 2800mAh 18650 on TaoBao, I would find it hard to believe that there is only that one person is able to provide a supply of these.


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## Mike Painter (Jan 27, 2009)

> Most people will buy a no name 2600 (or so it says) battery over his 2900 if the price difference is enough. It's not worth the gamble.


I knew what I meant 
I don't think it's worth the gamble for a dealer to buy enough pieces of the name brand to be able to make a reasonable profit. In markets like this there are many levels of pricing and he would be near the bottom.


> Exactly, I dont understand what you mean by "limited market" Remember when AW first released 2200mAh 18650 cells? At that time, these were top as well and similar capacities were also used for laptops too.



There is a limited market for those batteries being used in flashlights. It is not likely to change in the near future because the *big* users of batteries *in flashlights* are not going to switch from disposable any time soon. 

The big users *of rechargeables* now are laptops and drills. They buy with a commitment for thousands to tens of thousands a month and seem to be using all of them.
We are not enen big enough to generate a gray market for these things.

For those not familiar with the term, a gray market is one where a company can't actually sell/use the volume they commit to every month. They don't want to loose what may be a big price break so they sell what they can't use out the "back door" They make a profit, the person who resells makes a profit and, if it does not break, the buyer gets a very good price. 
Almost anybody in a retail business knows they can buy some things at Costco for less than they can buy wholesale at a large, for them, volume.

When I worked as a SCUBA instructor I saw the discounts the local dealer got. You could buy a tank in a big city for a price that was less than anything that appeared on the local dealers sheets.


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## xpea (Jan 27, 2009)

Splunk_Au said:


> Exactly, I dont understand what you mean by "limited market" Remember when AW first released 2200mAh 18650 cells? At that time, these were top as well and similar capacities were also used for laptops too.
> 
> Now there are 2 unknown issues here.
> 
> ...


Good points spunk, but some precisions:
1. only noname 2600mah are available. I mean ultrafire, trustfire, tenergy, titanium, etc, these are distributor brands, not real manufacturers. I cannot find branded (eg Panasonic, Sanyo, LG, Samsung) in any western online shop, not even dreaming to find it at Wallmart or any other B&M. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

2. on taobao or ebay, there are too many fakes (like last week 3000mah LGs that doesn't officially exist and after quick check were only 2600mah). Moreover, the auctions/buys are very limited batchs (usually less than 30pcs) for big cap cells (>2600mah). I don't buy my 18650s there. 


The fact is that Mike is right on availability. and of course he's right too when he says that flashligh is a very small market. But if I can find a reliable source able to supply let's say only 1000pcs per month, I will be happy to offer this service to CPF community, even if the profit is insigificant  (I have already a good job).


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## kramer5150 (Jan 28, 2009)

FWIW... I just pulled eight Samsung ICR18650-26A cells (2600 mah) from a laptop battery. I need to cycle them a couple times to see how they handle the load. My light only draws 850mah though so its a relatively easy load.


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## xpea (Jan 30, 2009)

a quick update to say that finally I found reliable sources for both Panasonic 2900mah and Sanyo 3000mah. I will get samples after Chinese new yer holidays and I will send them to Silverfox for testing. 

In this way, we will know the better product between Samsung 2800mah, Panasonic 2900mah and Sanyo 3000mah. At the end I will offer the best in CPF MarketPlace


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## vincebdx (Jan 30, 2009)

Wonderfull :thanks:


Five for me


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## AZLight (Jan 30, 2009)

xpea said:


> Good points spunk, but some precisions:
> 1. only noname 2600mah are available. I mean ultrafire, trustfire, tenergy, titanium, etc, these are distributor brands, not real manufacturers. I cannot find branded (eg Panasonic, Sanyo, LG, Samsung) in any western online shop, not even dreaming to find it at Wallmart or any other B&M. Please correct me if I'm wrong.



I do have some brand new Sanyo 18650 2600mAh for sale if you are interested. I ordered 480 batteries from Japan for my project and have some leftover. PM me for more info.


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## StandardBattery (Jan 30, 2009)

xpea said:


> a quick update to say that finally I found reliable sources for both Panasonic 2900mah and Sanyo 3000mah. I will get samples after Chinese new yer holidays and I will send them to Silverfox for testing.
> 
> In this way, we will know the better product between Samsung 2800mah, Panasonic 2900mah and Sanyo 3000mah. At the end I will offer the best in CPF MarketPlace


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## Splunk_Au (Jan 31, 2009)

xpea said:


> Good points spunk, but some precisions:
> 1. only noname 2600mah are available. I mean ultrafire, trustfire, tenergy, titanium, etc, these are distributor brands, not real manufacturers. I cannot find branded (eg Panasonic, Sanyo, LG, Samsung) in any western online shop, not even dreaming to find it at Wallmart or any other B&M. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


 
Here's a link to Samsung 2600mAh 18650 cell at $6.75/ea before shipping.
The seller has enough positive rep, I think they're genuine.


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## xpea (Jan 31, 2009)

Splunk_Au said:


> Here's a link to Samsung 2600mAh 18650 cell at $6.75/ea before shipping.
> The seller has enough positive rep, I think they're genuine.


Thx for the link. yes they should be original. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]FYI, ICR18650-26A is at least 2 years old[/FONT] model not anymore into production. It was replaced by 26B and after by 26C (last and current revision)


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## ichoderso (Feb 1, 2009)

xpea said:


> a quick update to say that finally I found reliable sources for both Panasonic 2900mah and Sanyo 3000mah. I will get samples after Chinese new yer holidays and I will send them to Silverfox for testing.
> 
> In this way, we will know the better product between Samsung 2800mah, Panasonic 2900mah and Sanyo 3000mah. At the end I will offer the best in CPF MarketPlace



I am very interested:thumbsup:


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## richardcpf (Feb 1, 2009)

DX should start selling these...


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## vincebdx (Feb 14, 2009)

Any news ?


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## Long RunTime (Feb 14, 2009)

:thumbsup:Interesting thread.


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## phantom23 (Feb 16, 2009)

xpea said:


> 2. low chinese quality ultrafire, trustfire, whateverfire with over-rated specs



I haven't heard that someone had problems with Trustfire's, they're rated @2,4-2,5Ah, tested - ~2,4Ah. Ultrafire is a different story:ironic:



richardcpf said:


> DX should start selling these...



They didn't start but Kai has these (protected!). I know Ultrafire's are overrated but only by 200-400mAh. So over 2,6Ah is really respectable for $9 shipped...


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## Volny (Feb 16, 2009)

The new ultrafires looks really interesting. Alot higher price than other ultrafires and some more capacity.

What does BRC mean?


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## AlexGT (Feb 16, 2009)

Nice find! I will wait for someone to review them before I order.

AlexGT


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## js-lots (Feb 17, 2009)

*new 18650 battery?*

I was on the kd site and they had these 18650 batteries. Anybody familiar with these?*(UltraFire BRC 18650 3000mAh 3.7V li-ion Battery With PCB*) I use mainly the 2500 ma blue trustfires.


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## sol-leks (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*

sku? Can't find em.


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## taschenlampe (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*



sol-leks said:


> sku? Can't find em.


 

Search with SKU doesn’t work.
Got to their hompage => “What is new?” => then “Click here for more…”


tl


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## jasonck08 (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*

LOL... UltraFire is claiming 3000maH. I believe the highest capacity from a top company is either 2700 or 2900maH for 18650 cells. I bet the UltraFIre is 2500 or less mah.


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## sol-leks (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*

still interesting. I mean there must be a reason they want to differentiate these from their other batteries.


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## phantom23 (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*



jasonck08 said:


> LOL... UltraFire is claiming 3000maH. I believe the highest capacity from a top company is either 2700 or 2900maH for 18650 cells. I bet the UltraFIre is 2500 or less mah.



Interesting because yes, they claim overrated values but not that much. Ultrafire 2400mAh 18650 has real capacity ~2,1-2,2Ah so these may be over 2,5Ah which is great for $9 shipped.
Samsung and Panasonic have 2800-2900mAh cells, tested close to 3Ah so it is possible. 

I think this thread should be here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2838928#post2838928


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## DM51 (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*



js-lots said:


> I was on the kd site and they had these 18650 batteries.


And what was it that made you decide to post a new thread about them in the LED Flashlight section, rather than look for an existing thread about them in the Batteries section?

Merging the threads...


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## seaside (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*

Cheap batteries including ultrafire's are bit more overrated than those of other brands, but all of us already somewhat... knew it.

Something i am worrying about new ultrafire 3000mAh is not its capacity, but its size. If it is more like 21700 than 18650, that will be a problem.


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## csshih (Feb 22, 2009)

baterija said:


> Hmm looks like China exports a lot of li-ions. I did hear about a short term limit on shipment by air that was related to safety/security concerns during the Olympics. I would assume that ban has passed.




oop! yea, indeed it has.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 23, 2009)

What is about this ICR18650 2800mAh i found on eba*:

http://desc.shop.ebay.at/items/_W0Q...&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=18650+mah&_osacat=0

oh: the Ultrafire @ 3000mAh are also on here already:

http://desc.shop.ebay.at/items/_W0Q...ksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=18650+2800mah&_osacat=0

The Ultrafire 18650 3000mAh batteries are protected - will it be possible to build an 5s 18.5V batterypack with theese cells? or will that burn the protection ciruit?

any idea? :candle:

btw: if you search on ebay for "18650 2800 mah" you will find some nice ICR18650 Cells.......so, only the quality question left....:thinking:


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## taschenlampe (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*



jasonck08 said:


> LOL... UltraFire is claiming 3000maH. I believe the highest capacity from a top company is either 2700 or 2900maH for 18650 cells. I bet the UltraFIre is 2500 or less mah.


 

Your guessing seems to be pretty accurate!

Link

tl


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## MattK (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: new 18650 battery?*

Those tests are at 1A and 2A - iec standard is .5A for Li-Ion so it would be interesting to see .5A test results.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 24, 2009)

xpea said:


> a quick update to say that finally I found reliable sources for both Panasonic 2900mah and Sanyo 3000mah. I will get samples after Chinese new yer holidays and I will send them to Silverfox for testing.
> 
> In this way, we will know the better product between Samsung 2800mah, Panasonic 2900mah and Sanyo 3000mah. At the end I will offer the best in CPF MarketPlace


 
Hey Xpea, whats the actual status? :thinking:

Is Silverfox already testing some of these cells?
when can we expect some results or a thread in the Marketplace? 

greetings


Edit:
@MattK
Do you sell protection pcb for 18.5v 5cell battery packs?


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## MattK (Feb 24, 2009)

Please PM me - I can't discuss that kind of stuff on CPF proper...I think.


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## xpea (Feb 24, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> Hey Xpea, whats the actual status? :thinking:
> 
> Is Silverfox already testing some of these cells?
> when can we expect some results or a thread in the Marketplace?
> ...


Hello all,

back from holidays + business trip :wave:

As expected I got the samples of Panasonic 2900mah (2750mah minimum guaranteed) :





I will send out some tomorrow to Jens in Germany and Silverfox for testing. 
In the meantime I will get a discharge tester very soon to see if they really hold their specs and I will publish here the results.

So expect a sales thread in market place in coming days 


PS: regarding Ultrafire, sorry I cannot comment on these new 3000mah as I don't know them, but everybody knows the company history regarding their over-rated specs and their rubbish quality. I'm not interested by this kind of low end stuff :green:


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 25, 2009)

xpea said:


> So expect a sales thread in market place in coming days


 
Great news!! What is about the 3000mAh Sanyo cells?



xpea said:


> PS: regarding Ultrafire, sorry I cannot comment on these new 3000mah as I don't know them, but everybody knows the company history regarding their over-rated specs and their rubbish quality. I'm not interested by this kind of low end stuff :green:


 

Some german guy on "messerforum" tested some of these (look post nr. 69) - you'r right: dont trust Ultrafire 

Edit: here is the test in english: KLICK


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## xpea (Feb 25, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> Great news!! What is about the 3000mAh Sanyo cells?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For now the Sanyo 3000mah seems not to be genuine, but counterfeit... The vendor doesn't want to guarantee me a minimum capacity (should be around 2800mah) and I don't find any information on these cells. Moreover, official Sanyo distributor told me that 2600mah is right now the maximum capacity from Sanyo in 18650 size...

So I stay with the Panasonics for now.


PS: Thx for the ultrafire 3000mah test link. Well nothing to add except that Ultrafire will not get better reputation with these new cells


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## xpea (Feb 25, 2009)

Good news,

just finished a first discharge test on a random PANASONIC 18650 2900mah sample. First time charge by Trustfire TR-001 at 500ma. Final voltage was 4.16A. Then wait 1 hour. Discharge by GY568+ tester at 500ma. End of test is achieved at 3.31V. For the final result, a picture worth a thousand words :





I believe after 4-5 charge/discharge break-in cycles, it should be able to reach easily 2950mah. well looks good so far 
doing now same test with another sample...


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 25, 2009)

Wow, that's really impressive!!!

I would say we see here the next step in capacity at the 18650 form factor!!! :thumbsup:

I need 10


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## Phaserburn (Feb 25, 2009)

PM sent...


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## Neisius (Feb 25, 2009)

What kind of price are we talking about for these PANASONIC 18650 2900mah?


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## cernobila (Feb 25, 2009)

xpea said:


> Good news,
> 
> just finished a first discharge test on a random PANASONIC 18650 2900mah sample. First time charge by Trustfire TR-001 at 500ma. Final voltage was 4.16A. Then wait 1 hour. Discharge by GY568+ tester at 500ma. End of test is achieved at 3.31V. I believe after 4-5 charge/discharge break-in cycles, it should be able to reach easily 2950mah. well looks good so far
> doing now same test with another sample...



The question would be if they can fire up bulbs like WA1111, 1185, P5761 just like the AW 18650 cells can........maybe a dumb question but are these protected?


----------



## Fusion (Feb 25, 2009)

Where can i get one of those nifty MAH testers??


----------



## phantom23 (Feb 25, 2009)

They should fire these bulbs up. But there's no protection circuit so you have to be careful.


----------



## xpea (Feb 25, 2009)

Neisius said:


> What kind of price are we talking about for these PANASONIC 18650 2900mah?


not sure if I can reply here this question.. PM sent

edit : Neisius you cannot receive PM (new user) so let's say the Panas are at around same price range as the "false" 3000mah ultrafire...


----------



## xpea (Feb 25, 2009)

Fusion said:


> Where can i get one of those nifty MAH testers??


I bought mine in a small electronic shop for 15 bucks (in China). Looks like a DIY product, manufacturing quality isn't great and it's not a professional grade equipment for sure, but it gives an idea of the cells capacity and that's all I wanted. Silverfox and ichoderso will do much better test when they will get the cells :thumbsup:


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Feb 26, 2009)

xpea said:


> Silverfox and ichoderso will do much better test when they will get the cells :thumbsup:




I am salivating in anticipation.

Will they post here, or start a new thread?


----------



## Burgess (Feb 27, 2009)

Good Lord . . . .


How on earth did i ever* miss* this Great Thread ? ? ? 


Very Interesting !

:twothumbs


Hope to see testing results from SilverFox soon.



_


----------



## Peter_V (Feb 28, 2009)

Ok, I want some.

How do I go about buying some?

Thanks.

P.s. you can email me a hotmail same username as here


----------



## old4570 (Feb 28, 2009)

xpea said:


> Good news,
> 
> just finished a first discharge test on a random PANASONIC 18650 2900mah sample. First time charge by Trustfire TR-001 at 500ma. Final voltage was 4.16A. Then wait 1 hour. Discharge by GY568+ tester at 500ma. End of test is achieved at 3.31V. For the final result, a picture worth a thousand words :
> 
> ...



mAh meter / tester - More info PLZ :wave:


----------



## orbital (Mar 2, 2009)

xpea said:


> not sure if I can reply here this question.. PM sent
> 
> edit : Neisius you cannot receive PM (new user) so let's say the Panas are at around same price range as the "false" 3000mah ultrafire...



+

Any updates?...:bump:


----------



## xpea (Mar 2, 2009)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Any updates?...:bump:


I'm waiting for my stock to arrive. Hopefully in coming days. When I will have it in hands, I will open the sales thread, not before. I want fast and immediate delivery


----------



## Burgess (Mar 3, 2009)

Has SilverFox posted a review yet ?


_


----------



## problemchild200 (Mar 5, 2009)

xpea said:


> I'm waiting for my stock to arrive. Hopefully in coming days. When I will have it in hands, I will open the sales thread, not before. I want fast and immediate delivery



I will order some when you get them in. Can you send me a pm?


----------



## arek98 (Mar 5, 2009)

It would be interesting to get hands on some of these.

Strange that they are so hard to get, looks like NNP (LiNiCoAlO2) batteries are around for quiet some time.
There is some info about them: http://download.intel.com/idf/us/docs/PS_EBLS003.pdf

Also seems like besides EeePC high performance battery pack mentioned earlier they may be also found in some other packs.
E.g., FUJITSU FPCBP171AP and FPCBP186AP - 6 cell 10.80V 5800mAh


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Mar 11, 2009)

xpea said:


> Good news,
> 
> just finished a first discharge test on a random PANASONIC 18650 2900mah sample. First time charge by Trustfire TR-001 at 500ma. Final voltage was 4.16A. Then wait 1 hour. Discharge by GY568+ tester at 500ma. End of test is achieved at 3.31V.



xpea, thank you for doing that test. If at all possible, could you please throw the switch, and test another cell at the one amp setting? Many of us run flashlights that drive the LED at or slightly over one amp; I believe many of us would be curious to see how the cell performs at that load.


----------



## ichoderso (Mar 11, 2009)

Hi all, I'm waiting for the panasonic cells from xpea.
If the cells arrived me, I will test it with different currents and compare the results with other cells, I have the most UF/TF cells, this from Solarforce and AW also....let's wait and see

regards from Germany,
Jens


----------



## ichoderso (Mar 11, 2009)

this is my equipment:


----------



## etc (Mar 12, 2009)

I am hoping that *some day* a "protected" version will be available.


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Mar 13, 2009)

Jens, your equipment looks beautiful. Eagerly, I anticipate your tests at different discharge rates! *thumbs up*


----------



## ichoderso (Mar 15, 2009)

the new Panasonic NCR cells arrived me yesterday!
I will test it at 1, 2, and 3A.(maybe at 5A..)
I use a new Software for better comparing the cells, but I can't import my old measurements from the other cells, and so I must take new measurements from the other cells too. I need some time for this
greetings from Germany, Jens


----------



## etc (Mar 16, 2009)

cool

post results


----------



## ichoderso (Mar 16, 2009)

test in progress!

but already i can say: this is the best (most capacity) 18650 cell I own

Jens


----------



## jirik_cz (Mar 16, 2009)

ichoderso said:


> but already i can say: this is the best (most capacity) 18650 cell I own



I can confirm that I don't have equipment for measuring capacity. But from some preliminary runtime testing in my flashlights, they are better than AW 2200, Trustfire 2500, Solarforce 2400, Eagletac 2400, Ultrafire 2400 and Tenergy 2600...

Good thing is, that they have small nipples on the + side, so they make contact in series arrangement.

Some pictures:


 

 

 


 

 



btw. all of them have some numbers visible under the shrink wrap and there is also some glue (?) residue close to the top of the cell.


----------



## MiniLux (Mar 16, 2009)

ichoderso said:


> test in progress!
> 
> but already i can say: this is the best (most capacity) 18650 cell I own
> 
> Jens


 
Nice,
guess I'll be in for a batch of these too in order to feed my hopefully-soon-to-come L2

MiniLux


----------



## ichoderso (Mar 16, 2009)

Hi Jirik, can you confirm, that this cells have only a thin metal body? some of mine have slightly dents from shipping, I think, you can damage tis cells easier than others!?
and the foil around the body is not complete going to the negative end, so it is possible, that you get electrical contakt (short circuit) if you use this in lights, if the batterie tube is not anodyzed....!?
can you confirm/compare this?

Jens


----------



## jirik_cz (Mar 16, 2009)

Yes, I've noticed a small dent on one of the cells. But other seems intact. 

Really don't know if they are more fragile than other cells, I can't tell just by looking on them 

Shrink wrap ends about 1mm before the minus end of the body, so it can theoretically cause some problems with more than one cell and none anodized inner tube.


----------



## ichoderso (Mar 16, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> Yes, I've noticed a small dent on one of the cells. But other seems intact.
> 
> Really don't know if they are more fragile than other cells, I can't tell just by looking on them



Thank you, this cells are lightwhigts, only 44g on my scale, others 45-47gramms, maybe thats why thiner material...



jirik_cz said:


> Shrink wrap ends about 1mm before the minus end of the body, so it can theoretically cause some problems with more than one cell and none anodized inner tube.



I'm wondering, why is it so? is there a good the reason?


----------



## jirik_cz (Mar 16, 2009)

ichoderso said:


> Thank you, this cells are lightwhigts, only 44g on my scale, others 45-47gramms, maybe thats why thiner material...



Panasonic NCR18650 unprotected - 44,2g
Solarforce 2400 unprotected - 44,6g
AW protected 45,8g
Trustfire prot. 47,4g
EagleTac prot. 48,7g

I think that the biggest difference is the weight of the protection circuit. 



ichoderso said:


> I'm wondering, why is it so? is there a good the reason?



I have no idea :shrug:

By the way, don't forget during testing that these can be safely discharged down to 2.5V!


----------



## ichoderso (Mar 16, 2009)

jirik_cz;288
By the way said:


> If I like my batteries, I have program my discharger to stop the measuring at 3,0Volt! There are some mAh not used, I know. but I think this can give you an idea of the real capacity compared with other cells...
> 
> Jens


----------



## jirik_cz (Mar 16, 2009)

These are different technology than common LiCoO2 cells and they are designed to be discharged down to 2.5V. It shouldn't harm them.


----------



## Mr Happy (Mar 16, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> These are different technology than common LiCoO2 cells and they are designed to be discharged down to 2.5V. It shouldn't harm them.


Even a common Sanyo UR18650A cell has a published discharge curve down to 2.75 V. However, unless discharging at a 2C / 4 A rate there does not seem to be much to gain. When discharging at 1 A the energy is all used up by 3.3 V with barely another 50 mAh down to 2.75 V.


----------



## full-beam (Mar 17, 2009)

I too will be interested in at least several of these batteries if all works well :thumbsup:

Regards


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## jirik_cz (Mar 19, 2009)

Well, I've got some runtimes measured in a flashlight modded with dereelight 4SD driver (flat regulation with li-ion battery). Didn't make graphs yet, just the results:

Trustfire 2500 (1 year old, many cycles): 1h:18m 
Ultrafire 3000mAh: 1h:26m
Trustfire 2500 new: 1h:30m
Panasonic 2900 #1: 1h:54m
Panasonic 2900 #2: 1h:58m
Panasonic 2900 #3: 1h:55m

Still have another 7 cells to test, but so far it seems that the new Panasonic NCR18650 2900mAh cells are pretty good :naughty:


----------



## richardcpf (Mar 20, 2009)

When will be the official release?


----------



## MiniLux (Mar 28, 2009)

Any news about these? :huh:

MiniLux


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## steve6690 (Mar 28, 2009)

I'd be interested in these if they can be supplied with tabs..


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## ichoderso (Mar 28, 2009)

MiniLux said:


> Any news about these? :huh:
> 
> MiniLux



my test is complete, will write about the results soon
Jens


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## jirik_cz (Mar 28, 2009)

I've finished my testing too. I was testing in a flashlight modded with dereelight 4SD driver, you can see runtimes with RCR123 here. Initial current draw is around 1.4A.

All ten pieces of Panasonic NCR18650 2900mAh cells are very good and outperform any other 18650 batteries that I know. In the following graph I've included all runtimes of Panasonic 2900mAh and one typical runtime for other cells.


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Mar 29, 2009)

Wow; nice!


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## Greg G (Mar 30, 2009)

I have GOT to have some of these. :devil:


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## WOY (Mar 30, 2009)

xpea said:


> So expect a sales thread in market place in coming days



Hi!

Just want to know if these has been listed in the market place as I cannot find them there!

Thanks in advance!
Wayne


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## Patriot (Mar 31, 2009)

Any new developments here? I'd also be in for a GB if that's the only way to get these cells. I'd could go for about 10-12 of them.


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## nuggett (Apr 8, 2009)

Where/when can I buy these cells? My laptop batts are dying


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## Bateman26 (Apr 12, 2009)

I want some off those cells to.. Posible around 30 cells.


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## ac0311 (Apr 14, 2009)

Anyone have an update on when these will be available for sale?


----------



## ntalbot (Apr 16, 2009)

Any update?


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 16, 2009)

I haven't had contact with xpea in awhile either by email or via the forums. I'll try an email again, but if he doesn't respond soon I'm going consider this a no go.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Apr 16, 2009)

PhantomPhoton said:


> I haven't had contact with xpea in awhile either by email or via the forums. I'll try an email again, but if he doesn't respond soon I'm going consider this a no go.



Little 5A XP-E teardrops will roll down my cheeks......


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Apr 17, 2009)

LEDAdd1ct said:


> Little 5A XP-E teardrops will roll down my cheeks......




Better than Ostar teardrops I guess.


----------



## jirik_cz (Apr 17, 2009)

If anyone is interested, I have one piece of these rare cells for sale


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## Wade (May 6, 2009)

Any news on when they will hit the market? 09_05_07


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## Whitedog1 (May 26, 2009)

Hmmm...any news here?? 

Where is Xpea gone? :candle:


----------



## cryhavok (May 27, 2009)




----------



## johnkan (May 29, 2009)

Just found that a seller have the panasonic 2900 forsale on ebay already, he also posted a new 1-3A discharge graph here, the result look really promising!


----------



## Burgess (May 29, 2009)

Nice find, johnkan ! :thumbsup:



Oh, and Welcome to CandlePowerForums !


:welcome:


_


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## LEDAdd1ct (May 29, 2009)

Awesooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooome!

Who's gonna be the first to bite?


----------



## Burgess (May 29, 2009)

Hopefully, SilverFox !





_


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## LEDAdd1ct (May 30, 2009)

I was pondering this while getting ready for bed, and was not sure if this was pessimism or just realistic caution, but:

why would Japanese made Panasonic cells be for sale from Hong Kong instead of Japan, their country of origin? I know this may sound silly, but I am just curious.


----------



## metlarules (May 30, 2009)

LEDAdd1ct said:


> I was pondering this while getting ready for bed, and was not sure if this was pessimism or just realistic caution, but:
> 
> why would Japanese made Panasonic cells be for sale from Hong Kong instead of Japan, their country of origin? I know this may sound silly, but I am just curious.


Because they are most likely counterfeit.


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## LEDAdd1ct (May 30, 2009)

Well, I asked the seller last night, and he responded sometime during my slumber. The seller wrote that he got a "reliable supplier" of the cell, and that they will be sold on an "ongoing basis" if possible.

After reading that, I see three possibilities:

1) The cells are genuine, and the seller believes they are genuine.
2) The cells are counterfeit, and the seller believes they are genuine.
3) The cells are counterfeit, and the seller knows they are counterfeit.

The only reliable way I know of to settle the issue, as indicated above, is for someone to try a pair and see what happens. While a test by a forum guru would be best, I suppose anyone could pop them into a well-regulated light with a known rated runtime on 2200aH cells, and see how these compare.

EDIT 6/2/09 2:58 P.M.

I messaged the seller again, telling him that I was worried they may be counterfeit. In response to my inquiry, he enlarged the photos on his website, and reiterated that the discharge curves published on his site were done by him for his potential customers. I think these may be the real deal.


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## etc (Jun 25, 2009)

Any estimate when a "Protected" version might be available? 1 year? two maybe?


----------



## Burgess (Jun 25, 2009)

my estimate . . . .




*Never*






_


----------



## Black Rose (Jun 25, 2009)

etc said:


> Any estimate when a "Protected" version might be available? 1 year? two maybe?


DX and Battery Junction sell the protection circuits....could always make your own.


----------



## BVH (Jun 27, 2009)

What happened to Xpea and a group buy?


----------



## Winx (Jul 7, 2009)

I got my pair of Panasonic 2900mAh batteries from an eBay seller jtsgallaxy.

I did discharge tests with Turnigy Accucell-6 and got following results. No nice Excel curves or something, just a capacity Turnigy showed after 1A discharge from 4.20-4.19v to 3.0v.

Protected AW, 2200mAh ... *2040mAh*
Samsung 2400mAh from Ledsee.com ... *2180mAh*
Panasonic 2900mAh ... *2440mAh*

I'll test the another Panasonic cell later. Fake cells or Turnigy is showing capacity incorrectly?

Edit: I'll cycle the cell(s) for a few times. Just found Jtsgalaxy is registered here.

Another edit: Ahh Minilux has already tested the cells with Legion II... Seems great


----------



## BVH (Jul 7, 2009)

Just got 10 of the Panasonics from jtxgalaxy. They look like the ones posted here but don't have the small inspection sticker. First test of one cell on a Schulze charger/discharger. I first discharged the cell and then charged it at 1200 ma. I only got 2130 mah into it with a termination Voltage of 4.1. I know others have said it should take about 4-5 cycles for best capacity but should it be this far off?

Should I be pulling capacity out of them below 3.0 Volts?


----------



## Winx (Jul 7, 2009)

Just noticed these cells don't have line under model number (18650).

CampSolution at eBay sells same looking cells with tabs. Those cells doesn't have line either.


----------



## BVH (Jul 7, 2009)

No line on mine, either


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Jul 7, 2009)

1) Random variations
2) Deliberate change in product appearance by manufacturer
3) Well, we all know what three is...fakes...


?


----------



## MiniLux (Jul 8, 2009)

BVH said:


> No line on mine, either


 
Same for mine.

MiniLux


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## jirik_cz (Jul 8, 2009)

My cells purchased from xpea score slightly over 2800mAh discharged with [email protected] (3V cut off). And little bit more when discharged down to 2.5V.


----------



## Winx (Jul 8, 2009)

My second Panasonic 2900 mAh:

Rest voltage dropped from 4.19 to 4.17 in 24 hours.

1A discharge to 3 volt ... *2334mAh*

:thinking:

I'll do a second cycle for the first cell tomorrow or maybe tonight.


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Jul 8, 2009)

Well, to be fair, jtsgalaxy does claim they require several cycles to reach full capacity. Let's see what happens after a few cycles...


----------



## BVH (Jul 8, 2009)

Things are looking good. The cell that started out by taking a 2130 mah on its first charge, took 3002 mah on its third charge. True test will be discharge mah after 5th charge.

To be clear, I'm charging to 4.1, not 4.2 Volts.


----------



## Patriot (Jul 8, 2009)

BVH said:


> took 3002 mah on its third charge.
> 
> To be clear, I'm charging to 4.1, not 4.2 Volts.





3002 mah and only charged to 4.1V !!! Impressive performance! 

I'm really excited about these cells and your 24W project.


----------



## jtsgalaxy (Jul 8, 2009)

Yes, those cells need some breakin cycles before reach their maximum capacity. For those 4 cells I tested and posted on my web increase about 1XXmah capacity per cycle during breakin (I use 1.2 -1.5A charge to 4.2V wait 2-6 hours then discharge to 2.5V). 

Please also be reminded that the NCR18650 are NNP series which means can safety discharge down to 2.5V. please set your discharger to cut-off at 2.5V if your would like to test the full "mah" from the cell

If charge to 4.1V only the capacity will reach about 90% but will extends the life of the cell for sure. 

Please report back the result after breakin.

My custom ultra low contact resistance battery holder


----------



## jtsgalaxy (Jul 8, 2009)

Winx said:


> Just noticed these cells don't have line under model number (18650).
> 
> CampSolution at eBay sells same looking cells with tabs. Those cells doesn't have line either.


 
I got both on hand and tried both they perform just about the same (#1 & #2 wo/line, #3 & #4 w/line) please take a look for the capacity here, the newer lot seems don't have the line under NCR18650.


----------



## jtsgalaxy (Jul 8, 2009)

Winx said:


> I got my pair of Panasonic 2900mAh batteries from an eBay seller jtsgallaxy.
> 
> I did discharge tests with Turnigy Accucell-6 and got following results. No nice Excel curves or something, just a capacity Turnigy showed after 1A discharge from 4.20-4.19v to 3.0v.
> 
> ...


 
I also tested a pair of Samsung 3000mAH got only 26XXmah @1A (5 cycles) under same test condition with the NCR18650. 
Two years ago I measured a Samsung 2400mAH remove from a brand new ASUS laptop battery got 21XXmAH. 
Silverfox measured 2440mAH on a 2800mAH Samsung. 

Seems the capacity of Samsung cell always 2XX-3XXmAH lower than stated.


----------



## BVH (Jul 9, 2009)

JTS, thanks for chiming in here with you're info. It's interesting that the cell that took 3001 mah or so on third charge, only gave 2150 or so on 2 Amp discharge. I'm thru guessing. I'm just gonna wait until i have 5 or 6 cycles on them to see actual capacity. I will discharge a bit more below 2.9 V but the mah i got between 3.0 and 2.9 was very little - like 35 or 40. I can't imagine by going from 2.9 to 2.5, I'll get more than another 50 to 60 mah. I might set hi voltage cutoff to 4.15 and monitor from 4.1 to 4.15 to see how much more goes in.


----------



## jtsgalaxy (Jul 9, 2009)

BVH said:


> JTS, thanks for chiming in here with you're info. It's interesting that the cell that took 3001 mah or so on third charge, only gave 2150 or so on 2 Amp discharge. I'm thru guessing. I'm just gonna wait until i have 5 or 6 cycles on them to see actual capacity. I will discharge a bit more below 2.9 V but the mah i got between 3.0 and 2.9 was very little - like 35 or 40. I can't imagine by going from 2.9 to 2.5, I'll get more than another 50 to 60 mah. I might set hi voltage cutoff to 4.15 and monitor from 4.1 to 4.15 to see how much more goes in.


 
Strange~~ how much current did you charge the cell perviously? does the cell heat up at the CV stage or the wrong mah caused by bad contact of the holder? If you got a voltmeter try to measure the cell directly during discharge compare it with your charger since I saw 0.2-0.4V dropout with my perviously used DSD holder during 2A-3A discharge. 
I would also suggest don't push the cell too hard during the breakin period (charge it at @ 1.2A or below if possible), you will also need to charge it fully to 4.2V and discharge to 2.5V (http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf/ACA4000/ACA4000PE1.pdf look for NNP series) to force the lithium line up for better performance. After runin you can lower the voltage anytime if you want to extend the battery life.


----------



## etc (Jul 9, 2009)

I want to use these unprotected cells with Malkoff M60 in a FiveMega 1x18650 body.

I understand that I get 1.5 hours of full lumens then a 2-hour tail. 
Is it safe to use these cells, given that they will get obviously dim? I don't want to overdischarge them.
How deeply can you discharge them and can you visually detect when it's time to remove a dead cell?

I usually use AW's protected 18650s but these look very nice.


----------



## BVH (Jul 9, 2009)

JTS, I started and have continued to charge both cells at 1.0 Amp. I discharge them at 2.0 Amps. I have been charging to 4.1 V and discharging to 2.9 V. My Voltmeter agrees (within .02 Volts) with the Voltage display on my Schulze 10-36.12 charger/discharger. My connections are direct to the battery (no holders) thru very strong magnets and alligator clips. Voltage on both the clips and the battery ends themselves are the same so no obvious Voltage drop. Both batteries are stone cold when charging.

I just suddenly realized that both times I've seen over 2700 mah put into the cell, it's been on my 2nd channel of the charger. Not sure why this is when both channels are programmed identically.

I'll try a few charges to 4.2 and discharges to 2.5 as suggested.


----------



## Winx (Jul 9, 2009)

Some updates with first measurements you all already know.

Cell #1

1st cycle ... *2440mAh*
2nd cycle ... *2478mAh*

Cell #2

1st cycle ... *2334mAh*
2nd cycle ... *2550mAh*
3rd cycle ... *2556mAh*

I'll do the third cycle for the first cell tomorrow.


----------



## BVH (Jul 9, 2009)

WinX, are you charging to 4.2 and discharging to 2.5?

In just one test, I found the cell gave about 125 ma more between 3 V and 2.5 V.


----------



## Winx (Jul 9, 2009)

BVH said:


> WinX, are you charging to 4.2 and discharging to 2.5?
> 
> In just one test, I found the cell gave about 125 ma more between 3 V and 2.5 V.



Yes and no. My Turnigy charges to 4.15v and after that I put the cell to WF-139 for a 10-15 minutes. I cannot discharge lower than 3.0v. There's no setting for a custom value in my cheap charger. I could set up some wire hassle to discharge more.

So my better cell might have a capacity of 2700mAh. I hope the other cell wakes up tomorrow.


----------



## BVH (Jul 9, 2009)

4th overall cycle on two cells. I discharged them to 2.5 V. and then charged them to 4.2 V. at a 1 Amp rate. After this, using a 2 Amp discharge rate, Cell 1 gave me 2485 mah and cell 2 gave me 2470.


----------



## Loomy (Jul 13, 2009)

Early tests have the 2900mah panasonic performing like either a 2400mah cell, 2500mah cell, 2600mah cell, 2700mah cell, 2800mah cell, 2900mah cell, or 3000mah cell.

Consistency!


----------



## Loomy (Jul 15, 2009)

jtsgalaxy said:


> I would also suggest don't push the cell too hard during the breakin period (charge it at @ 1.2A or below if possible), you will also need to charge it fully to 4.2V and discharge to 2.5V (http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf/ACA4000/ACA4000PE1.pdf look for NNP series) to force the lithium line up for better performance.



Hi, what does the lt mean? I only understand "use charger that does 250mA"

_Charge Current
We recommend the following current.
NNP series: Cylindrical type : 0.7 lt (or 0.3 lt for certain models) 

Discharge Current
The current should be maintained at 1.0 It or less (contact Panasonic if you plan to discharge the batteries with a current in excess of 1.0 It)_


----------



## BVH (Jul 15, 2009)

"lt" has the same meaning as "C". It's on the Panasonic site in one of the PDF's accessed from the same page you find the NPP cell data you quoted.

So .7 lt is the same as .7C.

From the PDF : Represents "Current" and is defined as follows It(A)= Rated Capacity (Ah) / 1(h).


----------



## Patriot (Jul 15, 2009)

BVH said:


> 4th overall cycle on two cells. I discharged them to 2.5 V. and then charged them to 4.2 V. at a 1 Amp rate. After this, using a 2 Amp discharge rate, Cell 1 gave me 2485 mah and cell 2 gave me 2470.




That sure is below the other tests we saw for these cells. Is Panasonic using a .5A or 1A discharge rate for reference?


----------



## Patriot (Jul 15, 2009)

etc said:


> I want to use these unprotected cells with Malkoff M60 in a FiveMega 1x18650 body.
> 
> I understand that I get 1.5 hours of full lumens then a 2-hour tail.
> Is it safe to use these cells, given that they will get obviously dim? I don't want to overdischarge them.
> ...





In an LED application you just have to monitor the run-time and cell voltage until you get a feel for it. Chances are they'll power the M60 just fine for at least 3 hours but at the end of the run pull and check the battery voltage ever 10-15 minutes. 2.8V should be the minimum *static* voltage, to be safe.


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## BVH (Jul 15, 2009)

I believe the standard discharge rate to use for true capacity is .1 or .2C. I did some 800 mah discharge cycles and the numbers were up to around 26xx. If I did .1 or .2, I think the capacity might be near advertised. I'm just after the capacity/runtime I'm going to get when used in my oracle 24 Watt packs. Looks like it will be 53 to 57 minutes. Better than 39 or 40.


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## VidPro (Aug 9, 2009)

Winx said:


> Yes and no. My Turnigy charges to 4.15v and after that I put the cell to WF-139 for a 10-15 minutes. *I cannot discharge lower than 3.0v.* There's no setting for a custom value in my cheap charger. I could set up some wire hassle to discharge more.
> 
> So my better cell might have a capacity of 2700mAh. I hope the other cell wakes up tomorrow.


 
well you can, switch to Ni_mhy and select a DISCHARGE voltage there, of course its not recommened or anything, and you wouldnt want to mess up as you can sellect a way to low of voltage, but you CAN do it, if its anything like the other tenurgy


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## erikvandeboer (Aug 14, 2009)

OK, I got a new entry to this thread. 

First a little story:
Last weekend I think that I blew up the battery on my Tomtom GSP set. It was a couple of years old, I use it rather intensively and batteries tend to die on you. Instead of the factory 6 hours standby time, I had 2 hours left after a full charge. Last weekend I used it 3 days in a row 8 to 9 hours a day. (A motorcycle holiday with some friends.) Charging the battery at the bartender during lunch and discharging it during the trip. That went well until one of the last stops. I picked up the GSP set, mounted it to the bike and almost immediately it started flashing that it needed to be charged. 10 minutes later it died on me. First you think that something went wrong when I plugged it in. But when I got home, I charged it for 2 complete days and I could use it for about 10 minutes. 
That's not good. 
So, I could bring it back to the shop. But then they start charging you 50 euro's just for the investigation. 30 Euros for a new battery and at least a hour of labor. Add that up and it is almost cheaper to buy a new one. Since the warranty is long gone I decided to open it my self. There was no burning sensation to my nose, so I am quit sure that the circuit board is alright. I took out the battery (It looks fine actually). Googled the part numbers and pretty fast I started reading on this forum.

I found out 2 things here:
1. There are good and bad brands. Try to get your hands on Panasonic or Samsung if you can.
2. There have been some very interesting developments in battery land. The original battery is a 2200mAh, but you can get a 2900mAh with the same dimensions now. (0,2mm bigger, but that shouldn't be a problem.)

So I ordered a Panasonic 2900mAh yesterday. And according to my email box, it is already on it's way. That's fast!

Now the question:
The original battery has 3 wires coming out if it. I understand the red and black. 
But what does the yellow do? 
Will the GPS operate when it is not connected?


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## LEDAdd1ct (Aug 14, 2009)

Loomy said:


> Early tests have the 2900mah panasonic performing like either a 2400mah cell, 2500mah cell, 2600mah cell, 2700mah cell, 2800mah cell, 2900mah cell, or 3000mah cell.
> 
> Consistency!



I'll say! I wonder what the deal with these is...?


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## lithium-led (Oct 27, 2009)

Hi folks,

I just tested some Samsung 2800 mAh cells and they came out to be 2857 mAh! BUT: Make sure that this cell has an increased charinging voltage of 4,30V, not 4,20V. In the latter case it will only give you about 2600 mAh.

I discharged the cells at 500 mA to 2,75V constant current. That is almost 220 Wh/kg energy density - not too shabby ;-)

Charging to 4,20V will still give you 2,6 Ah and will greatly enhance cycle life.

Best
Lithium-LED


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## jirik_cz (Oct 27, 2009)

Is it really good idea to overcharge cells to 4.3V? I don't think so...


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## lithium-led (Oct 27, 2009)

This has NOTHING to do with OVERCHARGING. 4,30V is the OFFICIAL charging voltage.

plz check for yourself at:

http://www.samsungsdi.com/storage/battery/circle/cylindrical-ICR18650-28A.jsp


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## Tohuwabohu (Oct 27, 2009)

4.3 V seems to be ok for the Samsung ICR18650-28A.

4.35 V for the 3000 mAh ICR18650-30A.


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## jirik_cz (Oct 27, 2009)

Interesting! Where can I buy the cells and appropriate charger?


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## Whitedog1 (Oct 30, 2009)

Tohuwabohu said:


> 4.3 V seems to be ok for the Samsung ICR18650-28A.
> 
> 4.35 V for the 3000 mAh ICR18650-30A.


 
nice

any chance to buy some of these? are they available yet :candle:


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## thawk (Jan 13, 2010)

Whitedog1 said:


> nice
> 
> any chance to buy some of these? are they available yet :candle:


 
+1


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 18, 2010)

I looked at the Panasonic homepage and found that tere is listet an updated 18650 cell:

The old one: NCR18650 ~ 2900mAh :candle:

The new one: NCR18650A ~ 3100mAh :twothumbs

Details found HERE

What do you think about these upgraded cells :thinking:


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## jirik_cz (Feb 18, 2010)

I NEED them! :devil:


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## Turboled (Feb 18, 2010)

I need them too.


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## drb (Feb 19, 2010)

Where can we get these?


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## neoseikan (Feb 19, 2010)

The charger looks amazing too.
How did you build it? the case.

Yours, Neoseikan


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## rantanplan (Feb 19, 2010)

jirik_cz said:


> Interesting! Where can I buy the cells and appropriate charger?



Looks like a second chance for crappy chargers like older UltraFire ones  ...


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## neoseikan (Feb 19, 2010)

rantanplan said:


> Looks like a second chance for crappy chargers like older UltraFire ones  ...



Yes. I really don't like those.


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## rpaloalto (Apr 30, 2010)

I just received 2 of these panasonic ncr18650 2900mah cells, Thanks to jtsgalaxy

I'm in the process of darning them for their first cycle. I'm using a 12v automotive bulb. It is darning the cell at 550ma.

When should I stop? I know it is suggested to stop at 2.5v for these specific cells. Is that a true measured output or is that 2.5v stop at under load?

Also It seems this may take a while, should I use two automotive bulbs in a series? 

I would also like to point out that with these panasonic cells. The warper does not cover the entire cell. It leaves about a 1mm exposed on the bottom. I have seen this before with LG cells. No big deal just put a wrap of PVC tape at the bottom.


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## jasonck08 (Apr 30, 2010)

2.5v is the lowest voltage you should discharge the cell to under load.


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## rpaloalto (Apr 30, 2010)

jasonck08 said:


> 2.5v is the lowest voltage you should discharge the cell to under load.



Thanks!
I may have went too far with my first cell. I let it go down to 2.2v that was under load. After a few minutes it went back up to 2.6 as a resting, no load voltage.
I'll stop the next cell at the 2.5v mark, while it's under load.


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## jasonck08 (May 1, 2010)

rpaloalto said:


> Thanks!
> I may have went too far with my first cell. I let it go down to 2.2v that was under load. After a few minutes it went back up to 2.6 as a resting, no load voltage.
> I'll stop the next cell at the 2.5v mark, while it's under load.


 
Just as an added buffer you may want to terminate the discharge at 2.8v. The diference in capacity is literally only about 50mAH at a 1A load. 2850mAH vs 2900mAH.


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## rpaloalto (May 1, 2010)

With my second panasonic cell, I did stop at 2.8v under load like you suggested. Both were charged to 4.2v at 500ma each. It seems like the first cell that I let go all the way down to 2.2v charged back to 4.2v just fine.

I'm new to all this. I was not thinking when I was discharging the first cell. 
Every time I took it off the load it went back to 3.7v. I kept trying to discharge to get a resting voltage of 2.5 like jtsgalaxy suggested.

I was impatient, and being new to CPF I had to wait for my posts above to be cleared by a CPF mod, before it even showed up in the thread.
Thats a good idea to keep spammers and trolls at bay, but it sure sucks when you got a question

Anyway, I thought this thread was about the Samsung 2800ma cell


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## Whitedog1 (Jun 7, 2010)

Whitedog1 said:


> I looked at the Panasonic homepage and found that tere is listet an updated 18650 cell:
> 
> The old one: NCR18650 ~ 2900mAh :candle:
> 
> ...


 
Are these upgraded Cells already available somewhere? :naughty:

Are other high capacity 18650 cells out there?

I found these ones:

LG 18650 2800mAh

Samsung 18650 2800mAh (probably samsung and LG are the same )

Panasonic 18650 2900mAH from jtsgallaxy

*[eBay links removed - DM51]*

Anybody know how the 2800mAh cells perform?:candle:


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## ptolemy (Jun 8, 2010)

Whitedog1 said:


> Are these upgraded Cells already available somewhere? :naughty:
> 
> Are other high capacity 18650 cells out there?
> 
> ...


 i dont think the 3100mah are available anywhere yet.


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## DLF (Jun 8, 2010)

Unless you buy a Tesla S.


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## Whitedog1 (Jul 30, 2010)

:wave: we just need to buy the battery pack to dismantle it

sounds like a groupbuy...


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## Whitedog1 (Jul 8, 2011)

News, News, News! :naughty:

New 3100mAh 18650 size cells are now available!!
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...00mAh-High-Capacity-18650!-Cell-Made-in-Japan!
:twothumbs


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## Whitedog1 (Mar 12, 2013)

another update:

the panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh Cells are now widely available :naughty: (on the market since a year or so...:thinking

They seem to me to be the best cells on the market (at this moment).
available here (also protected ones available):
Dealextreme

Some Test from a fella forum member:
Eagle Tec 3400mAh
EnerPower+ 3400mAh
Batt Energy 3400mAh


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## yvonne_chan (Mar 16, 2013)

Phaserburn said:


> Soooo, how can we get some of these? How much were they? I am assuming they are bare cells, with no protection circuit. Are they flat or buttontop?


Yes, the model name is bare cells. If with protection it won't be original Grade A Panasonic battery.
It needs to be assembled with pcb and cap to be protected. Regarding this, the quality of pcb is also very important to fit for a Grade A cells.


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## yvonne_chan (Mar 16, 2013)

Whitedog1 said:


> Are these upgraded Cells already available somewhere? :naughty:
> 
> Are other high capacity 18650 cells out there?
> 
> ...



I have an original datasheet from Panasonic. If you need you can contact me.


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## Whitedog1 (Mar 17, 2013)

yvonne_chan said:


> I have an original datasheet from Panasonic. If you need you can contact me.



Thanks, the datasheet is for which cell? :huh:


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