# NiMh Shoot Out Part II



## SilverFox (May 21, 2008)

The original thread is getting a little big, so I am going to close it and we can continue the discussion here in Part II.

The original thread is here.

The test data can be found here.

I will continue to update that first post as I test new cells, and inform you of the updates in this thread.

Tom


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## TorchBoy (May 21, 2008)

Hi Tom. Do you have any Maha Imedions in your testing plans?


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## SilverFox (May 22, 2008)

Hello Ian,

Unfortunately I stocked up on Eneloop cells and don't have any of the Imedions...

Tom


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## UnknownVT (May 22, 2008)

SilverFox said:


> Unfortunately I stocked up on Eneloop cells and don't have any of the Imedions...


 
If it's of any help there is a comparison of several LSD batteries which included Imedion and eneloop in a thread by archae86 in AA and AAA NiMH low self-discharge tests--Round 2 over at dpReview.

The best performing LSD AA in that study was the Maha Imedion (IME), followed by the Kodak Pre-Charged (KPC) and GP ReCyko (GRY) - the KPC and GRY curves seemed very similar - almost overlapping. Graphs for AA LSDs

In the AAA LSD graphs - the GP ReCyko AAA (GR8) came top, followed by the Maha Imedion AAA (IM8), then almost overlapping eneloop AAA (EN8) and Duracell Pre-Charged AAA (DP8) (this latter is not surprising, since made in Japan Duracell Pre-Charged are suspected re-badged eneloops).


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## 1dash1 (Jun 19, 2008)

Followup to earlier 30-day report.


MAHA Powerex 2700 AA cells, 62 day results, discharged @ 500 mA:
2151 ... 2158 mAH
Average = 2155 mAH​ 
*Summary*
*=======*
*Assumed starting charge: 2620 mAH
30-day results: 2210 mAH (84%)*
*62-day results: 2155 mAH (82%)*


_Note: These are extremely small samples (just two cells per test) and the starting charge was assumed (but I doubt if the C401FS @ slow rate put significantly more of a charge than the C9000). The results confirm what has been anecdotally reported elsewhere, that the Powerex 2700 cells have a moderately slow rate of discharge._


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## servaas (Jun 19, 2008)

1dash1 said:


> Followup to earlier 30-day report.
> 
> 
> MAHA Powerex 2700 AA cells, 62 day results, discharged @ 500 mA:2151 ... 2158 mAH
> ...



I can concur these results. I did a test on 4 x Powerex 2700mAh AA cells late last year. The cells were 14 months old at the time of cahrge, and had been used in a camera for around 12 cycles. Charging and discharging was done in a MH-C9000. Charge rate was 1000mA, and discharge rate was 500mA.

Cell, Initial capacity, 60 day capacity, % retained
1 2557 2188 85.6%
2 2625 2203 83.9%
3 2561 2139 83.5%
4 2537 2150 85.6%
avg 2570 2170 84.6%

Jeff Servaas | Servaas Products | Australian Distributor for Maha Powerex | www.servaas.com.au


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## SilverFox (Jun 19, 2008)

Hello 1dash1,

Interesting results.

I believe your, and Servaas's results are similar to what BentHeadTX found when doing similar testing.

Tom


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## snakyjake (Dec 22, 2008)

I really like the result table of Part 1, and hoping to see Powerex 2700 added.


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## koala (Mar 28, 2009)

Please have a look at this, see second page too. 

Sanyo Eneloop vs PowerEx Imedion.


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## 1dash1 (Mar 29, 2009)

Thanks for the link!

_Not surprised. I've avoided buying the Imedions and have been using Powerex 2700's and Eneloops. _


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## Chads93GT (Apr 12, 2009)

Im wanting to buy some new rechargables for my apex for caving. I am guessing that these POWEREX 2700 NiMH are the best ones on the market right now? i can get 4 sets of 4 for $50 off of the thomas-distributing.com site.


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## grishnav (Apr 30, 2009)

So what's the current front-runner? I'm looking to replace my ~100 Tenergy 2600mah AA's that are getting old. I need a decent all-around battery for powering radios, scanners, digital cameras, wireless mice, and of course, FLASHLIGHTS! 

Cell durability is more important than sheer capacity. Buying almost a hundred batteries at a time to power all your stuff is obnoxious.  Self-discharge rate also isn't that important; they get cycled and charged regularly regardless.

Thanks.


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## 5.0Trunk (Apr 30, 2009)

Hello,

I just picked up the Enveloop package from Costco, $28.99, to be used in my only AA light, the LD20 and my Canon SX10IS camera. I also just received a MH-C9000 WizardOne Charger from TD. Now I need to read all the post so that I can get the best performance from these batteries and also my RS and ROV (5 year Old Batteries) AA batteries.

Thanks..


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## Chads93GT (Jun 11, 2009)

Sort of a dumb question, maybe. I read the test of the batteries on the other thread and was suprised where the eneloop's were on the list. Is the reason that these batteries so good, is from the low discharge rate of the batteries? I am guessing if you want a battery that will last a lot longer off the charger, you go with the 2700 sanyo's or something else. I got the lacross charger and the 2600 lacross batteries. I have to say, those battiers lasted the entire 10 hour cave trip last weekend, where other's went through 2 sets of energizer rechargeables.

I think the 2600 lacross b atteries are pretty good. not sure how well they hold their charge though.


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## TorchBoy (Jun 12, 2009)

Were they used Energizer 2500 cells? They have a particularly bad reputation.


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## filibuster (Aug 1, 2009)

Silverfox, do you have any experience or testing info on the AccuManger or AccuEvolution LSD batteries? I wonder how they compare to the other cells?


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## SilverFox (Aug 1, 2009)

Hello Filibuster,

Sorry, I don't have access to those cells. [Edit: This is not correct. I do have some of these cells and will be testing them in the near future. [end Edit]

Tom


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## Russel (Aug 1, 2009)

I have been using 8 D cell AccuEvolution LSD batteries in a portable fan this summer. I haven't performed any testing, but I can tell you they have been performing very well in the fan. I run the fan all night (750ma) and charge them in the morning.


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## 45/70 (Aug 1, 2009)

Chads93GT said:


> I read the test of the batteries on the other thread and was suprised where the eneloop's were on the list. Is the reason that these batteries so good, is from the low discharge rate of the batteries?



That's part of it. That _is_ the major purpose of LSD cells. 

I see a lot of folks refer to Tom's chart in that thread. I rarely refer to it, myself. The real information is in the individual graphs for each cell. The chart is great, if, as you suggest, you are going to be using your cells soon after charging _*and*,_ are going to discharge them at 1.0 Amp. Other than that, the chart really isn't that useful, other than as a benchmark.

Particularly, where significant current is applied, the graphs paint quite a different picture. If there were a chart representing how well the cells hold voltage under load, for example, the eneloop would be nearer the top.

Dave


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## crockett (Aug 1, 2009)

Exactly,
I can link to post done by a photographer that compared Sanyo Eneloop vs PowerEx Imedion AAs and it came to the exact same conclusion as the different thread that was linked above. The Imedion gave a slight increase in the number of shots but Eneloops blew away the Imedion on the time it takes for the flash to recycle to full power and ready for the next shot.

LSD batteries and lots of shots are important to a photographer but recycle time of the flash is KING. And this how the general conclusion has been drawn that Eneloops are the best choice in the LSD world for professional photographers using compact flashes. And if anyone cares the Powerex MAHA are head shoulders above the rest in the non-LSD world (yet have been shown to hold their charger very well compared to others).

However, I've never posted this link because we can't necessarily draw the conclusion that they are the best for flashlights.

What needs to be done, is to get one of these reviewers who have SEVERAL models of AA and AAx2 lights and run tests with Eneloops vs. Imedions. Preferably repeating each and every light and battery combo 5 times and taking the average curve from the 5 tests (kicking out any dude cells).

A lot of work but it would give a very good picture of which was better if any.

In our photography work we use Powerex MAHA because they get more shots and they maintain a fast recycle rate for very deep into the curve when compared to eneloops. The kicker is that we have to make sure they are freshly charged right before the event. Because of this we keep on hand a large number of eneloops for situations where we need them quickly or we forget to charge the Powerex's.

For flashlight use I would suspect Eneloops would be the clear choice over Powerex MAHA because of the sexy LSD. However if you need a very long run time in a relatively short amount of time (caving perhaps?) then I would load in Powerex MAHAs if I had both on hand. I certainly wouldn't go out and buy them if I had Eneloops. I'd just carry more spares in my pocket..


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## condor11 (Aug 2, 2009)

Who actually manufactures Powerex LSD's?


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## SilverFox (Aug 2, 2009)

Hello Fillibuster,

I screwed up on my last comment to you...

I have the cells, I just have to find the time to check them out. After I posted my last comment, something didn't seem right with it and I found the cells I am supposed to test.

To many distractions with my job.

Sorry about that.

Tom


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## TorchBoy (Aug 3, 2009)

crockett said:


> However, I've never posted this link because we can't necessarily draw the conclusion that they are the best for flashlights.


If you mean http://www.calvinstudio.net/?p=472 then (A) it's already been posted, and (B) what's your problem? Camera flashes make light.


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## crockett (Aug 5, 2009)

TorchBoy said:


> If you mean http://www.calvinstudio.net/?p=472 then (A) it's already been posted, and (B) what's your problem? Camera flashes make light.


 
A) No I was talking about this thread here:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=677074

B) I don't understand? No problem at all. I was just reinforcing what a previous poster wrote. It probably is true that the one of best batteries for these LED flashlights is the Sanyo Eneloops but we can't take camera flash test as the bible. A flash pop is a lot different than a gentle continuous draw of a flashlight. To be certain we would need to run tests with flashlights. I just think doing tests under actual load would give us a more "real world" picture.

That's all I was sayin...no big deal.


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## Codeman (Aug 5, 2009)

A number of flashlights found on CPF can draw as much current as a camera flash. Eneloops perform well in such lights, as well as low-draw ones, for that matter. If you do a search of this board, you should find at least one or two load-based tests of the Eneloops.


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## TorchBoy (Aug 6, 2009)

crockett said:


> A) No I was talking about this thread here:
> 
> http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=677074


Wow, what a lot of testing. Nice find! It _really_ needs some graphs though.

Anyone have any idea what effect this sort of testing has on the flash tube involved?


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## eprom (Feb 25, 2010)

Hi Friends,

I have received my 8x AccuEvolution LSD D size and MAHA 808M Charger last week.

I made a setup to Discharge the batteries to test and get some non-scientific data.

Test:

- Batteries were reading ~1,285 before charging
- They all fully charged @2000ma
- They were discharged with ~0,55 Ohm ceramic resistor

Here are the result for first 4 batteries







And in excel format: http://dosyalar.ledcozum.com/CPF/LSD/AccuLSD.xls


I have a question to SilverFox, is it normal to get ~8000mah capacity? According to datasheet discharge @2000mA must give near 10.000mAh (min: 8900mAh). These LSD's need any Charge/Discharge cycles before catching the nominal capacity?

Thanks,


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## uk_caver (Feb 25, 2010)

It looks like you're calculating the the current from the voltage and resistance.
How did you allow for any extra resistances in the discharge path?
Were you measuring the voltage at the cell, or across the resistor?


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## eprom (Feb 25, 2010)

Current calculated by voltage over Resistor. Data supplied on new table,








uk_caver said:


> It looks like you're calculating the the current from the voltage and resistance.
> How did you allow for any extra resistances in the discharge path?
> Were you measuring the voltage at the cell, or across the resistor?


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## SilverFox (Feb 25, 2010)

Hello Eprom,

I would have expected results closer to the 8900 mAh listed on the data sheet. However, many brands are labeled "optimistically..."

You can run a few charge/discharge cycles on them to see if there is an improvement. It may be that the capacity will continue to improve with cycling.

Tom


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## Conan (Feb 25, 2010)

Codeman said:


> A number of flashlights found on CPF can draw as much current as a camera flash. Eneloops perform well in such lights, as well as low-draw ones, for that matter. If you do a search of this board, you should find at least one or two load-based tests of the Eneloops.



Yes it does but that Camera Flash test reveals that the 2700 mAh AA's outperform the Eneloops which is contrary to what I expected.


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## Russel (Feb 26, 2010)

I took a couple of my AccuEvolution LSD D cells and charged them with a MH-C808M charger (at 2 amps) and allowed them to stay on the charger for an hour after the "done" indicator. Then rested them for an hour and discharged them at a rate of 1 amp with a MH-C9000 using a homemade D cell adapter. 

Here are the results:

Cell 7 8866 mah

Cell 8 8950 mah

----------------------------

I am now charging them at C/10 (1 amp) for 16 hours. I'll rest them, then discharge again at 1 amp and post the results.

Edit: C/10 charge for 16 hours and 1 amp discharge with c9000:

Cell 7 9603 mah

Cell 8 9472 mah

-----------------------------

If I'm not mistaken, the standard discharge rate for testing is .2C, which in this case would be 2 amps. So, after the C9000 discharge tests, I'll try some with a CBAII at 2 amps.


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## servaas (Mar 9, 2010)

crockett said:


> Exactly,
> I can link to post done by a photographer that compared Sanyo Eneloop vs PowerEx Imedion AAs and it came to the exact same conclusion as the different thread that was linked above. The Imedion gave a slight increase in the number of shots but Eneloops blew away the Imedion on the time it takes for the flash to recycle to full power and ready for the next shot.


Do you mean this post http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=7716388&postcount=6

The test conducted was different, in that he is testing the time for a burst of five pops of the flash, which is a more 'real world' use pattern for a photographer. After the first 100 pop the difference is 3.84s for IMEDIONs and 3.37s eneloops for 5 pops, so the difference in flash refresh rate between the 2 battery brands is 0.094 seconds per pop, with the eneloop faster. I would not say "eneloop blew away IMEDION in the time it takes to recycle to full power"

As you say, if flash refresh rate is 'king' for you, then the Powerex 2700mAh AA's are the best choice. For the LSD battery user, the benefit of a faster refresh rate of 0.09s from the POTN test, or 39 pops in a minute compared to 45 pops in a minute from the photomalaysia test vs the benefit of a 5 % longer runtime before recharging from IMEDION (in both tests) is down to personal preference. Some will want the slight speed edge, some will want the higher capacity.


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## Aussie Cheese (May 2, 2011)

i could test the imedions but my vencon is limited to 6a

and i need to order some from somewhere


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## dragonfruit (Nov 23, 2011)

[h=2]VapexTech AAA Instant 950 mAh batteries test: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?326806[/h]


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## hellokitty[hk] (Nov 24, 2011)

I'd love to see a set of the hobbyking Turnigy AA 2200mAh LSD batteries at $1.29 each tested.
I'll try to remember to grab a set on my next order, and I'd be willing to ship them over, but that might be a while.


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## Agarob (May 3, 2012)

Hi There

Can someone please direct me to the manner (with what ?) the tests on these bats where done>

Thanking you.


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## HKJ (May 4, 2012)

Agarob said:


> Hi There
> 
> Can someone please direct me to the manner (with what ?) the tests on these bats where done>



Generally there are 3 tools used when testing NiMH batteries:

1) MAHA MH-C9000 can measure capacity (LaCrosse BC-700 and BC-900 can do the same).
2) CBA fro West Mountain Radio can discharge any battery and generates a curve on a computer.
3) Hobby charger can discharge and charge any battery and some models can generate a curve on a computer.

There are also some more advance battery test stations, but they are more expensive.


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## lightseeker2009 (May 4, 2012)

hellokitty[hk] said:


> I'd love to see a set of the hobbyking Turnigy AA 2200mAh LSD batteries at $1.29 each tested.
> I'll try to remember to grab a set on my next order, and I'd be willing to ship them over, but that might be a while.



Long ago I asked that someone should also include these batteries in their tests. So far no one was willing to bite. I have more of them than I have Eneloops, just because I feel they are 98%v just as good as the Eneloops. Just need someone who do these proper tests too agree with me.


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## TinderBox (UK) (May 8, 2012)

Hi.

I bought some "Ansmann Global Line AAA 1000mAh NiMH" and did a break-in test with my MH-C9000

789, 799, 771, 781 mah

Then i did an charge/discharge at .2c

783, 783, 768, 781

They are no-where near 1000mah

Thanks

John.


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## uk_caver (Oct 11, 2012)

I've been seriously impressed with some (UK-based) 7dayshop 'good-to-go' 2150mAh cells I just bought.

I should mention my C9000 seems a little pessimistic, never seeming to rate any of my many Eneloops quite as highly as other people seem to report.

With the previous-generation supposedly 2100mAh 'good-to-go' cells I was typically getting capacity readings about 100mAh or more less than from Eneloops, but that wasn't too unexpected or disappointing since the cells were rather cheaper.

With the current 2150mAh variants, I bought 16, which were between 1693-1751mAh on arrival.
On testing 4 cells pulled straight after charging showed complete in a cheap smart charger, I got 2165 to 2185mAh.

On testing 8 cells which had been smart-charged overnight, and so possibly topped up with a bit of a trickle, I got 2180-2240mAh out, which was impressive given I didn't expect to get even the claimed capacity.

Cells are slightly thicker than Eneloops, and about 2g heavier.
They may well be worse in various other aspects, but for a rather cheaper cell they're seeming pretty good so far.


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 11, 2012)

uk_caver, where were the batteries manufactured?

Bill


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## uk_caver (Oct 11, 2012)

There's nothing to indicate place of manufacture on the cells - they came in plastic 4xAA holders, so no packaging as such.

For what it's worth about the only possibly useful features for identification I can see are the 'pip on the positive end has, running around it at the level of the white 'washer' are 3 slots, each about 1/6 of the circumference (where an Eneloop would have 4 small holes) and the raised disc on the cell base is slightly smaller diameter than an Eneloop.

Mass is 28.00-23.33g according to my cheap digital scales compared to 26-26.3g for Eneloops (so 2g heavier, rather then the 1.5g I wrote earlier, earlier post now corrected).


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## axforts (Dec 18, 2012)

Hey guys, So I tried to make heads and tails of the charts and graphs but honestly I have no idea what im looking at. Im going to be purchasing a Fenix LD22 and I was told it was better to use a NiMH than alkaline batteries but there seem to be a LOT of options as far as those are concerned and I dont know if one is really that much better (more likely some are just crappy and Id want to avoid those). Is this something I can purchase at the checkout line of my grocer or something specific I should be ordering online. Any recommendations?


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## SilverFox (Dec 20, 2012)

Hello Axforts,

Welcome to CPF.

Basically the cells that have larger numbers for milli watt hours or milli amp hours will give you longer run time. In addition, you are looking for a higher voltage under the load you expect the cell to perform at. A cell that gives you 1.2 volts under load is better than one that gives you 1.1 volts.

Tom


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## Shadowww (Dec 20, 2012)

Just get either Eneloops, or, if extra 25% runtime (at 50% increase of cost) is important to you, Eneloop Pro's.


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