# Difference between a Flashlight and a Torch?



## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

It might sound silly, but what is the difference between a *flashlight* and a *torch*?

I have used these things for 40 years mainly in my work as an Electrician and I still am not sure of the correct terminology.

I have quite a few of these lights in all different sizes and shapes.

A torch could be like the Olympic Torch with a flame.

I have seen the term FLASHAHOLIC but never TORCHAHOLIC.

The history of how a flashlight got its name still eludes me.

When do you use each name or are they one and the same? :candle:


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## Flashfirstask?later (Oct 2, 2010)

Which term one uses depends on more where your from mainly. 

Kinda like how Australians may have there own English terms for many things.


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## Burgess (Oct 2, 2010)

trunk = boot

elevator = lift

flashlight = torch

color = colour



_


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## [email protected] (Oct 2, 2010)

My understanding was flashlight was a term predominantly associated with the Americas whilst the rest of the world simply called them torches


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 2, 2010)

Torches are generally speaking not a directional light source (think Olympic torch) where as a flashlight is. You hold a torch above your head to provide 360degrees of light, like a lantern. A flashlight you have to aim at your target. 

That's my take on their difference....


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## pounder (Oct 2, 2010)

i've always associated a torch with something on fire at the end of a stick..and i've always thought of a boot as something you put on your foot..different cultures across the oceans I guess..


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 2, 2010)

Burgess said:


> trunk = boot
> 
> elevator = lift
> 
> ...



:laughing:

:thumbsup:

Spot on mate!


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 2, 2010)

pounder said:


> i've always associated a torch with something on fire at the end of a stick...


 

Yep.....that's where it comes.


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

Burgess said:


> trunk = boot
> 
> elevator = lift
> 
> ...


 

I was expecting a very detailed lengthy reply saying that I was stupid for not knowing why they were different.

I just thought that there would be some differences between the two as in *Boats* and *Ships*.

People get funny when you use the wrong name, but to most people there is no difference but to Marine enthusiasts there is a big difference.

In marine terms there is a large variation in things that float on water as in Dinghy, Runabout, Cutter, Cruiser and Ocean Liner.

Mariners usually correct the unenlightened pretty quickly.

Ok, with the amount of posts you have put up I would say you are probably on the money.

So there is no distinction between *Torch* and *Flashlight* at all.

BUT, there are probably types of Torches / Flashlights as in Lanterns, Headlights and Searchlights.

Then again isn't any light capable of *Searching* for something?

Just how big does a Searchlight have to be before it is officially a Searchlight?

When I take the head off one of my torches and tailstand it on a table in a room isn't this then a Lantern that is diffusing light all around and probably bouncing off the ceiling?

I am lost now!!


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## The Light! (Oct 2, 2010)

I've always thought that flashlights refer to the said battery-operated lighting sticks, while torches can refer to those OR the traditional fire on a twig depending on the context. Flashlights and torches basically mean the same thing in the modern world, it depends if you're influenced by American or English culture and vocab... It's a bit like the whole 'organize'/'organise' controversy if you like.

As for searchlights, I associate the word with lights that aren't handheld (they have to be mounted on a car/truck/helicopter/whatever) whilst those that have the same amount of power and are handheld are spotlights.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents on the topic...


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## [email protected] (Oct 2, 2010)

Whilst it was an Englishman in New York (pun intended) named David Misell who invented the tubular battery fed lighting device it was actually Conrad Hubert (founder of Eveready) who actually chose to call it a flashlight. :thumbsup:


A nice detailed write up by DONOTDELETE on this subject can be found HERE


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## MojaveMoon07 (Oct 2, 2010)

_[wrong thread; sorry]_


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## Flying Turtle (Oct 2, 2010)

A torch is what you carry when storming Dr. Frankenstein's castle. Also useful lighting cigars.

Geoff


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

The majority of people in Australia would say *torch*.

I can't remember anytime that I heard somebody especially in my days as a Maintenance Electrician for over 30 years say "*get me a flashlight*".

Do you guys ever refer to flashlights as torches in the US?


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## Illum (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm guessing its the same between thermionic valves and vacuum tubes...
ones more descriptive and the other is more for reference.


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## Tally-ho (Oct 2, 2010)

By definition, all flashlights are torches but all torches are not flashlights, no ?


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## Ozgeardo (Oct 2, 2010)

Being an Aussie who has spent quite a lot of time Stateside and also working with lots of "Septics" over the years I have managed to get quite a good hold on the differences in our versions of the English language.

Firstly Aussies can call someone a "filthy bugger" or "an old *******" and these are actually terms of endearment just like calling a Yank a "Septic" (A quaint Aussie piece of the vernacular with rhyming slang that refers to Yanks as "Septic Tanks").

I was judging a some car shows in Ohio and got the "mickey" when I asked owners to open their "Boots & Bonnets" (Trunks & Hoods), I had people taking their shoes and hats off!

But to keep this story about illumination devices (how's that for walking in the middle of the road) why is it that according to many of our beloved members in the States many of our toys are made of a-loom-in-um but for those of us from the antipodes our toys are made of al-u-min-i-um.

I find it quite refreshing dealing with the different spins on the English Language, even the difference between Aussie and Kiwi (NZ) can be very entertaining


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 2, 2010)

Tally-ho said:


> By definition, all flashlights are torches but all torches are not flashlights, no ?


 

Ummm........no 


Torches are non-directional sources of light, i.e. provide 360deg of light like the open flame torches that could be a lit oily rag wrapped around a stick. Flashlights are a directional electrical illumination device so it's different to a torch. A torch is more like a lantern. A flashlight can be turned to a torch with the aid of diffuser wands and other adapters (e.g. the SureFire camping adapter thingy).

My $0.02


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## march.brown (Oct 2, 2010)

Burgess said:


> trunk = boot
> 
> elevator = lift
> 
> ...


Eraser = Rubber
Rubber = Condom

Therefore Eraser = Condom ..... I think !
.


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

I am more confused than I was when I first started this thread.

I have looked at Wikipedia and other resources but it is still bewildering.

You say *TEMAYTOES*

I say *TOMARTOES*

This is spinning me out!!


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## GarageBoy (Oct 2, 2010)

Torches drive on the left?


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

GarageBoy said:


> Torches drive on the left?


 

You guys have a good sense of *HUMOUR* or is that *HUMOR* over there.

I know what you guys are getting at with different countries.


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## 45/70 (Oct 2, 2010)

This thread reminds me of something funny. I spent a good part of my life, particularly my younger years, in Northern Ontario. One time we were eating at some friends, and my Mom asked if she could have another napkin (as in something to wipe your hands on). Marge, the Canadian who's house we were having lunch at laughed. She knew what my Mom meant, but explained that their use of the word "napkin" meant a baby diaper. Up there they call these cloths (or paper) used for wiping your hands and such, a "serviette". I think this is a British name, as well, but is obviously French in origin. You other English speaking guys can correct me on that, if I'm wrong.

As far as flashlight vs. torch, I'm pretty sure it's just where you're from. In Northern Ontario (Canada), they call them flashlights, as do we here in Ohio, and as far as I know, in all of the U.S. If I asked a non flashaholic where I live, for a "torch", they'd give me an odd stare and would have no idea what I was talking about.

Dave


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## Bass (Oct 2, 2010)

'Flashlight' for Americans and 'Torch' for the rest of the world. It is down to variations in the English language, there is no difference.

I have never heard anyone in the UK say 'flashlight', always 'torch'.

I do think 'flashlight' is the better name though! Just sounds better IMO


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 2, 2010)

Bass said:


> 'Flashlight' for Americans and 'Torch' for the rest of the world. It is down to variations in the English language, there is no difference.
> 
> I have never heard anyone in the UK say 'flashlight', always 'torch'.
> 
> I do think 'flashlight' is the better name though! Just sounds better IMO


 

Flashlight and torch are different and not meant to be interchangeable. However, their definition have started to blend together in the modern lexicon

Definition of torch from dictionary.com:

1. 
a light to be carried in the hand, *consisting of some combustible substance, as resinous wood, or of twisted flax or the like soaked with tallow or other flammable substance, ignited at the upper end*. 
2. something considered as a source of illumination, enlightenment, guidance, etc.: _the torch of learning. _

3. any of various lamplike devices that produce a hot flame and are used for soldering, burning off paint, etc. 


And definition of flashlight is:

1. Also called, _especially British _, torch. *a small, portable electric lamp powered by dry batteries or a tiny generator*. 
2. a light that flashes, as a lighthouse beacon. 

3. any source of artificial light as used in flash photography


You wouldn't call the flame they pass around for the Olympics the Olympic Flashlight, would you ? No, It's the Olympic Torch.


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## gsr (Oct 2, 2010)

I have never heard an American use the term 'torch' to describe any sort of electricaly powered light source. It seems to me that use of the word 'torch' to describe an handheld lighting instrument is un-American.


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

Bass said:


> 'Flashlight' for Americans and 'Torch' for the rest of the world. It is down to variations in the English language, there is no difference.
> 
> I have never heard anyone in the UK say 'flashlight', always 'torch'.
> 
> I do think 'flashlight' is the better name though! Just sounds better IMO


 

Hold your horses here.

Why are flashlights the better terminology?

Thems fighting words!!

I am just *winding/stirring/geeing* you up now.

Or is that called something else over there in the Good Old US of A or England?

Aren't you in love with someone if you are "*HOLDING A TORCH FOR THEM*"?

Being an Electrician, holding a torch for myself or anybody else is just plain boring and my muscles get sore sooner or later!!


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

When I am talking on CPF I always refer to Flashlights as Torches.

Now I wonder why someone from the USA has never said anything about what Ozzies, Europeans or Pommies are using in reference to these portable things that make light using electricity.

Do we all look silly to the US or are you guys just used to hearing us talk this way.

Thanks for the very good posts in this thread outlining the differences or lack of differences between the two (or maybe just one) items in question.

If I now change to flashlight (which will be hard to do) will others wonder why a guy from Australia is using this YANKIE terminology?

I am really getting confused now!!! :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead


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## Tally-ho (Oct 2, 2010)

Belstaff1464 said:


> Flashlight and torch are different and not meant to be interchangeable. However, their definition have started to blend together in the modern lexicon
> 
> Definition of torch from dictionary.com:


It is interesting to see that you are providing the source that is the more convenient with your point of view.

Definition
flashlight noun /ˈflæʃ.laɪt/ [C]
US for torch (= a small light that you can carry with you)
:nana:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/flashlight
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/torch_1
and
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/thesaurus/british/torch#torch_4
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/flashlight


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## flatline (Oct 2, 2010)

Oztorchfreak said:


> Ok, with the amount of posts you have put up I would say you are probably on the money.
> 
> So there is no distinction between *Torch* and *Flashlight* at all.


 
In the US, Flashlight describes a directional hand-held light source and torch usually implies combustion (e.g. "welding torch"). No such distinction is made in Great Britain.


Other sub-categories of lights that seem to have consensus meaning:

Headlamp: (usually small) light that can be strapped to a head/helmet/limb/whatever to allow hands-free use

Headlight: the brightest lights on the front of a car/truck

Spotlight or Searchlight: a light that projects a useful hotspot a relatively long distance. Usually has no or minimal spill.

Lamp/Lantern: light designed for local area lighting (evenly lights some amount of area in front of or around it). Confusingly, a light might also be called a lamp or lantern if the handle is on the top of the device (even if it is directional). This second meaning seems to be a generational thing used by people alive before, say, 1950 or so. As they die off, I expect this usage to disappear with them.

There are probably more that I'm forgetting.

--flatline


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

I am getting some really good informative and sensible although sometimes humourous feedback on this subject.

It does sometimes get right into the history of various countries and I don't know if there really can ever be a *DEFINITIVE* answer to this question.

It is as hard as asking which chocolate tastes better.

To me they all taste pretty good!!

It is great to hear other people's views on something that would seem pretty easy to work out.

*CPF ROCKS!!!!*


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## Black Rose (Oct 2, 2010)

Burgess said:


> color = colour


We crazy Canucks tend to use the British spelling for a lot of words, but we call flashlights flashlights.

If I asked my father in law to bring me a torch, he'd come back with a propane torch commonly used for plumbing work 

Every time I get an order from overseas, I'm surprised it's not open by customs because it says "torch" on the customs label.


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## Tally-ho (Oct 2, 2010)

I don't know if american people realize that anywhere else in the world, particulary where english is not the native language, british (UK english) is considered as the "correct" english, US english is just a particular/derived form of english.
So, anywhere else in the world, if you ask for a torch, we will bring you an electric device because we also live/move with the times...don't worry, you will not need a lighter to "turn it" on as 200 years ago.
It seems that in europe (where languages with latin origin tend to be more "preserved") torch (that is derived from a latin word) has a wider lexical field, so this word is used for a lot of light sources.


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

Black Rose said:


> We crazy Canucks tend to use the British spelling for a lot of words, but we call flashlights flashlights.
> 
> If I asked my father in law to bring me a torch, he'd come back with a propane torch commonly used for plumbing work
> 
> Every time I get an order from overseas, I'm surprised it's not open by customs because it says "torch" on the customs label.


 

As an Electrician I too use propane or butane powered gas torches for heating electrical parts that need heat applied to free them up.

Flashlight terminology is pretty well American and maybe Canadian as far as I can tell from the feedback received so far.

Thanks guys for the great discussion we are having here. 

Battle lines have been established it seems. 

The word "*FLASH*" in Australia is more associated with a "*welding flash*" when striking an arc with an electric welder or maybe a "*flasher"* is "*someone who exposes themselves in public*".

Isn't "*FLASH GORDON"* an American cartoon strip character? :devil:


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## Nokoff (Oct 2, 2010)

in keeping with what answers are relative, there have only been two correct answers in this thread:

flashlight=torch
torch=Frankenstein castle mob tool :candle:


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 2, 2010)

Nokoff said:


> in keeping with what answers are relative, there have only been two correct answers in this thread:
> 
> flashlight=torch
> torch=Frankenstein castle mob tool :candle:


 
Some unenlightened people would say who gives a s%^t about what we call our toys.

But us enthusiasts would beg to differ it would seem.

Other people will say "GET A LIFE OR GET A WIFE!!".

I already have a wife.

She does light up my life I must admit.

She has shoes, handbags, jewellery and umbrellas.

I have torches/flashlights as one of my habits/addictions.

I did not think there would be many replies to my question.

Obviously I was wrong.

The modern Olympic Torch used in the relay around the world has not yet gone LED or HID.

I am being a little silly here, but what does that thing run on?

Let's just have a party and well will talk about this issue over a beer or two and I don't really care if it is American or Aussie beer as long as we all have a good time.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 2, 2010)

Tally-ho said:


> It is interesting to see that you are providing the source that is the more convenient with your point of view.
> 
> Definition
> flashlight noun /ˈflæʃ.laɪt/ [C]
> ...


 
It was the most convenient but I didn't selectively cite it as you've implied in your post. Mr Google did :nana: . Maybe it was an American dictionary ? I don't know.

But consider that the torch existed way, way, way before man learnt how to harness electricity, i.e. before flashlights were ever invented. I'm guessing that when the the flashlight was invented in America (see post below) and introduced to the rest of the world, the term flashlight was never really adopted for some reason. The rest of the world probably didn't think that another name was necessary. Hence the term torch evolved to include the electrically powered lighting device that is a flashlight, even though they are in fact quite different. Note that the flashlight was invented but the torch was not.......It would be incorrect to say that Conrad Hubert invented the torch because the torch existed before then.



[email protected] said:


> Whilst it was an Englishman in New York (pun intended) named David Misell who invented the tubular battery fed lighting device it was actually Conrad Hubert (founder of Eveready) who actually chose to call it a flashlight. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> A nice detailed write up by DONOTDELETE on this subject can be found HERE


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 2, 2010)

Oztorchfreak said:


> The modern Olympic Torch used in the relay around the world has not yet gone LED or HID.
> 
> I am being a little silly here, but what does that thing run on?
> 
> Let's just have a party and well will talk about this issue over a beer or two and I don't really care if it is American or Aussie beer as long as we all have a good time.


 
I think it uses some sort of gas fed by a cylinder hidden in the handle. I don't know what type of gas. Butane ?


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## KiwiMark (Oct 2, 2010)

G'Day.

Torch = personal & portable illumination device. Once that was a burning stick, but in modern times it is a battery powered device. Essentially used for the same purpose though. I have never had experience with the type of light that the 'flashlight' was originally named for.

But here we have heaters powered by electricity, only on overseas (British) TV programs have I ever heard one described as an 'electric fire'. In different countries there are terms used that would confusing in another country - it's just something to get used to.



Oztorchfreak said:


> I am just *winding/stirring/geeing* you up now.



Where does 'geeing' come from? Geez, you Aussies talk funny!


I do remember my sister telling me about an experience when she went on holiday overseas. She was with a group in England looking at some written document and an American woman made a comment about the 'old fashioned' spelling. My sister asked if she was really unaware that in every country in the world except for the US of A that was the normal spelling. It seems that some Americans just have no clue about the differences in the English language in terms of USA vs the rest of the world.


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## k1rod (Oct 2, 2010)

I was leaving my flat and took the lift down. I got in my auto but it wouldn't fire. I opened the bonnet but it was too dark to see so I opened the boot to get a torch. The torch wouldn't light because the cells were flat so I just had it towed to a petrol station....

Translation 

I was leaving my apartment and took the elevator down. I got in my auto but it wouldn't start. I opened the hood but it was too dark to see so I opened the trunk to get a flashlight. The flashlight wouldn't light because the batteries were dead so I just had it towed to a gas station....

You see, we are people separated by a common language!


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 3, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> it was actually Conrad Hubert (founder of Eveready) who actually chose to call it a flashlight.



These are two sides of the same phenomena. 

Change used to be slow and language had centuries to adjust and develop. These days, we need a new word for something something every 5-10 years. Inventions since the industrial revolution have tended to be named after the invention/tool they replaced (torch) or after the name put forth by the inventor or first big brand (flashlight). Other examples include Kleenex/tissue, Mackintosh/raincoat, Polo/casual, Google/search.

Differences between countries/regions can simply be a matter of which of the two 'options' gets into wide use first.


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## [email protected] (Oct 3, 2010)

KiwiMark said:


> Where does 'geeing' come from? Geez, you Aussies talk funny!



You lot should talk... this thread is choice aye! 


Bottom line if David Misell had invented the tubular lighting device anywhere other than in the US (and had UK/European financial backing) you'all would be callin' thum there flashlights of yours torches like the rest of the world


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## Bass (Oct 3, 2010)

Oztorchfreak said:


> Aren't you in love with someone if you are "*HOLDING A TORCH FOR THEM*"?


 
It's actually '_holding a candle for them' _just to confuse you even more :nana:

Us '_pommies'_ would call ex-girlfriends, or old 'acquaintances' - _old flames _as well. There is definitely a light theme here? (light of my life )

FWIW - I think Tally-ho had it right. As far as Europeans are concerned '_flashlight' _is an American word for '_torch'_


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## Xacto (Oct 3, 2010)

Bass said:


> [...] As far as Europeans are concerned '_flashlight' _is an American word for '_torch'_


 
As a non-nativ speaker, I would second that. If asked, I would consider torch being the british/commonwealth equivalent of a flashlight.

Cheers
Thorsten

EDIT: After being literally being brought up by CNN and Star Trek and missing the "old" MTV Europe with its divers english accents, I was surprise when I first saw the new Doctor Who episodes and realized, how "americanized" my english is. I sometimes had to rewind multiple times just to understand the (often unknown) words. Never ever happens when watching CNN etc.


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 3, 2010)

Bass said:


> It's actually '_holding a candle for them' _just to confuse you even more :nana:
> 
> Us '_pommies'_ would call ex-girlfriends, or old 'acquaintances' - _old flames _as well. There is definitely a light theme here? (light of my life )
> 
> FWIW - I think Tally-ho had it right. As far as Europeans are concerned '_flashlight' _is an American word for '_torch'_


 

It is strange that you should say that because I have found many references to "Hold a torch for someone".

This one comes from a forum.

http://www.englishforums.com/English/HoldATorchToSomeone/lgjhw/post.htm

If you carry/hold a torch FOR someone, you have romantic feelings for that person. It's a fixed idiom

- If you hold a torch TO someone, it sounds like you are trying to set that person on fire - a rather grisly form of murder!


I think I do hear "doesn't hold a candle to" (meaning, as Clive said, that it's far inferior) often enough that it doesn't sound odd. The "carry a torch for" sounds like something from my grandmother's generation. 

Also there is a site that describes this as well here.

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/hold+the+torch.html

*Idiom Definitions for 'Hold the torch'*

If you hold the torch for someone, you have an unrequited or unspoken love.



I don't know if this question will ever be solved!! 

Torches, candles, flames and flashlights are driving me crazy.

So can you be "Carrying a Flashlight for someone" as well?


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## Ray_of_Light (Oct 3, 2010)

The ethimology of the word "flashlight" dates back to the invention of first "portable electric powered lights". Powered from immature Leclanche batteries mated to power-guzzling bulbs, these lights were able to produce a brief flash of light when the switch was activated.
Thus the name "flashlight".
When this american invention was improved (capable of emitting steady light) and crossed the Atlantic, it was basically a metallic handle containing batteries - and emitting light at one end. It was comparatively named "torch" because of the way it was physically handled.

As time go by, "flashlight" has remained in the U.S., and "torch" in the rest of the world. You may note that all the terms originally coined for artificial lighting (Burning, turn light on, etc.) has remained integrally in all Western languages, and have not been updated with the advent of electricity.

Regards

Anthony


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## Mikey V (Oct 3, 2010)

This has been a fun thread. As someone who interacts regularly with folks in both the UK and Australia, I have always been aware of the many usage and spelling idiosyncrasies between the King's English and American English. 

Some here have tried to inpute some stereotype that we Yanks are all just too dumb to know the rest of the world spells something diffferent because a woman refers to the British spelling as old fashioned. Not at all. To an American, it is old fashioned. Why don't you all get with the program? Take the word "Colour." We Americans have moderrnized the spelling to "Color" because that is how it is pronounced. Why waste printing ink on un-needed letters? 

Now, we invented the metal tubed battery powered lighting device, and called it the flashlight. Why? Because it is not a torch. A torch is a stick with a flaming rag on it. Torch, to an American (or Canadian), implies that an actual flame is involved, thus welding torch, propane torch, Frankenstein mob torch, etc. 

A UK/Commonwealth speaker has a problem with the word torch. It can mean two distinctly different things to him. Say the ground before him has a stick with a oiled rag on it, and a Surefire 6P as well. I tell him to pick up that torch and light it. What is going to do? A puzzlement indeed! He can pick up the Surefire and twist the handle, or pick up the stick and click his Bic lighter and spark that bad boy up. He cannot distinguish the true meaning of what was intended from the words "pick up that torch" without context. If he were an American, he would instantly know that I meant to pick up the stick with the oily rag. But a Brit or a Kiwi would need further clarification. Thus, his term, torch, is inadequate.

Logic therefore dictates that the American term flashlight is superior as it is more precise in describing the device. All you UK and Commonwealth English speakers should adopt our name. We did after all have the bragging rights to naming it, and you all are in bad form for not accepting our name!:thumbsup:


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## Tally-ho (Oct 3, 2010)

Mikey V said:


> Say the ground before him has a stick with a oiled rag on it, and a *Surefire* 6P as well. I tell him to pick up that torch and light it.


:shakehead
Tell him to "pick up the surefire". :devil:



Mikey V said:


> He cannot distinguish the true meaning of what was intended from the words "pick up that torch" without context. If he were an American, he would instantly know that I meant to pick up the stick with the oily rag. But a Brit or a Kiwi would need further clarification. Thus, his term, torch, is inadequate.


Why inadequate ? Is he not supposed to pick up a light source (that is exactly what both torches are) ? 
I think that a "Brit" or "Kiwi" is smart enough to choose the torch that is the more appropriate to the situation.
Are you not attacked by wild animals in your example and is he not supposed to pick up the fire torch to frighten them ?



Mikey V said:


> Logic therefore dictates that the American term flashlight is superior as it is *more precise* in describing the device.


Superior..oh really ?
IMO, the word "*flash*light" is more appropriate to describe this device:







Moreover, once you light it/turn it on, a *torch* emits a continuous light as long as you don't turn it off.

Where is your logic now ? :nana:


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## Bass (Oct 3, 2010)

Tally-ho said:


> :shakehead
> IMO, the word "*flash*light" is more appropriate to describe this device:


 

That is a good point Tally-ho. I would also call it a 'Flash', 'Flashlight', 'Camera flash', or 'hot shoe Flash'. 

I believe the American term would be 'strobe'?


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## hoongern (Oct 3, 2010)

Yeah, I'm not sure where all this arguing is coming from. I spent time in both the US and UK, and am fine with either words.

Tbh, I don't think either word properly describes the devices we all love, but does that really matter? I.e. Horsepower, candlepower, candela, etc. all have ancient origins, but we still use them with no problem. 

Obviously, saying 'torchlight' doesn't make it a torch anymore, except maybe a hotwire comes closer, and our 'flashlights' don't flash anymore, unless you're strobing it.

So, can we all be nice and accept either terms? Sigh.. or it looks like maybe not?

(On a personal note, I do think flashlight sounds a bit nicer, but I have no problem with torch)


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## KiwiMark (Oct 3, 2010)

Mikey V said:


> A UK/Commonwealth speaker has a problem with the word torch. It can mean two distinctly different things to him. Say the ground before him has a stick with a oiled rag on it, and a Surefire 6P as well. I tell him to pick up that torch and light it. What is going to do?



Pick up the torch and light it? I would guess that you mean the stick with the oiled rag.

Pick up the torch and turn it on - I would guess that you mean the Surefire. But I understand that if you are an American you are more likely to say "Pick up the flashlight & turn it on".

Most UK/Commonwealth speakers have gained a familiarity of American English from TV. I watch plenty of American programs as well as British ones, so I am reasonably familiar with common terms used in each country.

It still amuses me that anyone from USA would think of their spelling as 'modern' when it is actually American spelling and in the modern world all English speaking countries other than USA don't use that spelling. Different & unique to one country isn't the same thing as modern by any definition. Also Americans trying to tout their spelling as modern is a bit rich when they don't even use a modern measurement system - New Zealand changed to the metric system about 35 years ago and USA is still stuck in the past today.

Although personally I don't mind the American spelling of Color or any of the other 'our' => 'or' words, but some of the other spelling changes I don't like e.g. 'Litre' changed to 'Liter' - that looks wrong and makes me think it should be pronounced differently. I see 'Litre' and recognise the french origins of the word and know to pronounce it appropriately, but I see 'Liter' and it looks like it should be pronounced the same as 'Lighter' - maybe Americans should have gone with 'Leeter'. Color, honor, etc are OK by me because the pronunciation seems pretty obvious. I also prefer Jail to Gaol, once again the pronunciation seems more obvious.


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## Gregozedobe (Oct 4, 2010)

As an Australian I find this discussion quite entertaining. I have a sneaking feeling that due to the largely one-way cultural transfer I can translate "US English" to "Australian English" better than the average American could translate "Australian English" to "US English", and particularly when it gets to less common slang (colloquillisms). 

For example, while many of my friends and acquaintences know of my enthusiasm for hand held electrical devices that emit a steady directed light when switched on (aka lights), they all are greatly amused when I tell them that the US members of CPF take pride in being identified as "Flashaholics". To them this has an obvious link to the meaning of a male who deliberately exposes his private parts to other people in order to shock or distress.



Oztorchfreak said:


> or maybe a "*flasher"* is "*someone who exposes themselves in public*".


 
In the following example the author doesn't realize that they have used a US term in the pre-translation version. In Australia a *car* may have an *auto* gearbox, but it also could have a manual gearbox. If it was written by me (an older Aussie) it could read more like this:

"I was leaving my flat and took the lift down. I got in my *car* but it wouldn't *start*. I opened the bonnet but it was too dark to see so I opened the boot to get a torch. The torch wouldn't *work* because the *batteries* were flat. I managed to get my mate to *jump start it using his ute*, but there was still a problem with the *auto* so I just had it *flat-topped* to a *servo*....



k1rod said:


> I was leaving my flat and took the lift down. I got in my *auto* but it wouldn't fire. I opened the bonnet but it was too dark to see so I opened the boot to get a torch. The torch wouldn't light because the cells were flat so I just had it towed to a petrol station....


 


Bass said:


> That is a good point Tally-ho. I would also call it a 'Flash', 'Flashlight', 'Camera flash', or 'hot shoe Flash'.
> 
> I believe the American term would be 'strobe'?


 
For me that is a 'Flash' or 'Camera Flash', a 'strobe' is a light that flashes frequently at a regular interval (could be slow, medium or fast).

As far as which authority is correct, then there is usually no simple, single definitive answer that everyone will accept without question.

I find that for a lot of people it is the recognised authority when they were being educated (typically what they learnt when they were teenagers or young adults). 

I'm pragmatic these days, I just go with current majority usage in the community I am in (even when I don't like it or think it is wrong). On this forum (CPF), that is the usage preferred by the US CPFers. Where I live, it is the usage by adult Australians. But If I was younger, it would be the usage by young Australians.

But I do enjoy the differences, even when it is a bit confusing. I'm told that when a group of Aussies get excited and talk fast using a lot of slang much of what we say is very hard to understand by non-Aussies.


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## Mikey V (Oct 4, 2010)

Bass said:


> That is a good point Tally-ho. I would also call it a 'Flash', 'Flashlight', 'Camera flash', or 'hot shoe Flash'.
> 
> I believe the American term would be 'strobe'?



No, Americans pretty much call it a flash. Been a photographer since childhood, and that is what I have always called it. Strobe is also a possibility, but much less common. Americans might usually call a strobe a studio unit mounted on a tripod and connected to a main power source, as opposed to a hot-shoe mounted unit..


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## Mikey V (Oct 4, 2010)

Tally-ho said:


> :shakehead
> Tell him to "pick up the surefire". :devil:
> 
> 
> ...




You missed the point, entirely. YOU added context to your example. I never said anything about a wild animal needing to be scared off. Without such context, the Brit cannot distinguish between whether I meant the Surefire or the stick with the oily rag. There is no context offered. If I told an American to pick up the torch, he would have no problem in understanding that I meant the stick with the oily rag.

In your example about what the word is describing, you again missed the point. Whether it is called a flashlight or a dingbat matters not a bit. The fact that flashlight means something different than a torch is the distinction that allows an American to figure out what is being referred to, while the Brit, in absence of some other context, cannot determine. He is using one word to describe two uniquely different things, hence confusion. 

To a Brit, one word means two completely different things thus potential confusion. To an American, two words, each describing uniquely different things, thus no confusion. Absence of confusion is more logical. 

Right :nana: back at you.


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## hoongern (Oct 4, 2010)

Mikey V said:


> You missed the point, entirely. YOU added context to your example. I never said anything about a wild animal needing to be scared off. Without such context, the Brit cannot distinguish between whether I meant the Surefire or the stick with the oily rag. There is no context offered. If I told an American to pick up the torch, he would have no problem in understanding that I meant the stick with the oily rag.
> 
> In your example about what the word is describing, you again missed the point. Whether it is called a flashlight or a dingbat matters not a bit. The fact that flashlight means something different than a torch is the distinction that allows an American to figure out what is being referred to, while the Brit, in absence of some other context, cannot determine. He is using one word to describe two uniquely different things, hence confusion.
> 
> ...



I've always understood the following:

Flash = the thing on the camera
Torch = Something which emits some sort of flame i.e. oily rags on stick, blowtorch, etc. , but yes, sometimes the shortened form of torchlight
Flashlight = Torchlight

Anyway, we do use the term torch lumens =) Not flash lumens... But I'm fine with either terms

EDIT: I'm still not sure why everyone is arguing about this. If we are to really nitpick, neither terms may accurately describe these [roughly] cylindrical tubes with a light-emitting device and a power source


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## get-lit (Oct 4, 2010)

A torch is something that burns things, like an acetylene torch or a butane torch, or the Frankenstein flaming torch weapon light. I think the word torch is more associative with burning than lighting. To say that you are going to torch something means your going to burn it rather quickly. Who ever says they're going to torch something when they're just going to illuminate it? That could be a dangerous misinterpretation. *You would never tell your buddy to torch your kids, but then again you wouldn't tell him to flash them either :fail:* It's like parking in a driveway and driving in a parkway. Language makes little sense. At the very least, anything called a torch should readily have the ability to burn.


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## hoongern (Oct 4, 2010)

get-lit said:


> A torch is something that burns things, like an acetylene torch or a butane torch, or the Frankenstein flaming torch weapon light. I think the word torch is more associative with burning than lighting. To say that you are going to torch something means your going to burn it rather quickly. Who ever says they're going to torch something when they're just going to illuminate it? That could be a dangerous misinterpretation. *You would never tell your buddy to torch your kids, but then again you wouldn't tell him to flash them either :fail:* It's like parking in a driveway and driving in a parkway. Language makes little sense. At the very least, anything called a torch should readily have the ability to burn.



I think that's where the {flash, torch}light part comes in. As I understand:

"Flash" has its roots in the fact that back in the days, the power source was limited, and the efficiency was terrible, hence it only flashed for a while.

"Torch" has its roots in the tungsten bulb, or anything else which "burns" hot enough as a filament.

Then the "Light" part which is appended signifies that it's the light which is the important aspect of these devices.

Hence, I think they both describe early generations of flash/torchlights, and that is why I think while they may not accurately describe our current generation flash/torchlights, they are still acceptable terms.


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## lightfooted (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm not sure I would say we are truly arguing about it...more like just having fun with it, though I think it could be said that "torch" and "flashlight" are about as accurate a description as is "telephone" for these modern tools/devices.

On a side note: One rather peculiar and even less a descriptive term I have seen used is "light engine", which to me suggests that the user had not thought about the actual meaning of the two words they threw together. I honestly thought they were referring to some new mode of generating mechanical force and momentarily was puzzled by the the photo until I realized that they were in fact meaning the light emitting diode. Which is not a light engine at all...since no kinetic energy is needed to produce photons.

I have many times used the short term "light" when referring to my flashlights or to any other similar device...but I can't say I have ever called them a torch. To me it's archaic to call a battery operated light source a word that used to describe a burning material on a stick. Sure you could argue that it's the modern equivalent, sorta like a vat of heavy water with a bunch of uranium rods could be called a steam engine eh?


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## Tally-ho (Oct 4, 2010)

Mikey V said:


> Frankenstein mob torch


 :shakehead

You still associate the word "torch" with "Frankenstein" despite you live very near the most beautifull "torch" ever.
(Offered buy French people...(the whole thing )).




(Click for high-res).

BTW: this photo is unusual too:


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## Mikey V (Oct 4, 2010)

Tally-ho said:


> :shakehead
> 
> You still associate the word "torch" with "Frankenstein" despite you live very near the most beautifull "torch" ever.
> (Offered buy French people...(the whole thing )).
> ...




I've actually been a lot closer to that torch that you even might have guessed. It has been my privilege to see that torch in a way only a few humans have. In pre-9/11 days, I used to regularly fly a Cessna 172 out of nearby Linden Airport. Sometimes, at night, I would skirt Staten Island and turn north, flying between the towers of the Verrazano Narrows Bridge and up the harbor, where I would drop down a bit and make pylon turns around the Statue of Liberty, at 350 feet altitude, just about the height of the torch. All by myself, just me and the lady, all lit up with flood lights. 

Breathtaking. 

If I did that now-a-days, an F-16 would put a Sidewinder missile up my tail! 

Times have changed....


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## Ozgeardo (Oct 5, 2010)

Yes we are having some fun with this subject (_well some of us anyway_). As Gregozedobe started to run with the colloquialisms I guess I better get my fair shake of the sauce bottle as well.

Now please moderators there is nothing inappropriate in the following conversation between four people from Australia, New Zealand, England and the USA unless you choose to make it inappropriate:

_A pommy ******* named Bert asked my ozzy mate Bazza to jump the batt in his motor. Bazza asked his Kiwi cobber Bruce if he had any jumpers in his boot and replied only in the bottom paddock. Bert recons Bruce could have anything in those wellys. Great stuff Bazza recons and asks Bruce’s septic shella, Britney if she has a torch to check out the spaghetti on Berts donk. Britney said wont you need some scratches for that torch or do you mean a flashlight, I have one in my fanny bag to which Bazza and Bert took the micky out of Bruce’s shella. Struth says Bazza she’s fully equipped, even got a pair of uggy’s. Bert asks her if they are made from wooly jumpers when Bruce cracks one about them being made from beaver when Britney plants one fair up his clacker. Bruce and Bazza who both use to be diggers thought it was time to crack a coldie but Bazza forgot the esky full of stubbies and Bruce left the chilly bin with the long necks on the bonnet of Berts heap. _

_A Flashaholics Lament_


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## PerttiK (Oct 5, 2010)

We have it easy here in europe.
In most parts flashlight is referred as a "pocketlamp".
If someone asks me for a torch, i'll introduce a burning stick.


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## Oztorchfreak (Oct 5, 2010)

PerttiK said:


> We have it easy here in europe.
> In most parts flashlight is referred as a "pocketlamp".
> If someone asks me for a torch, i'll introduce a burning stick.


 

Now there is a new one on me here in Australia.

A "*POCKETLAMP*".

What do you call this "*pocketlamp"* when it gets much bigger than a pocket?

Do torches/flashlights of all sizes have this one description? 

Please give me the history of this if you can.

I will have to "Google" this one as I think it sounds really different to anything I have ever heard a torch/flashlight ever called. 

*Update* - When I googled pocketlamp as one word it it came up as pocket lamp in two words. 

And yes when you look up pocket torch it is right there beside electric torch and flashlight in the link below.


http://www.websters-online-dictiona...FORID:9&ie=UTF-8&q=hand+lantern&sa=Search#922


*YOU LEARN SOMETHING EVERY DAY!!! :twothumbs*


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## Mr Bigglow (Oct 5, 2010)

Like a lot of other terms, I've always thought that the torch vs flashlight thing reflected the relative linguistic conservancy of the British as opposed to the linguistic innovation of the Americans. The Everready man said "hey, here's a new thing and it needs a new name- flashlight!" whereas the Brits said "what bronze age term can we apply to this new electric thing- torch!" In Canada we probably adopted 'flashlight' as we did in order to avoid being handing a flaming bundle of twigs when we wanted a flashlight.


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## bluepilgrim (Oct 5, 2010)

The terms can be interchangeable: if you overcharge your li-ions in your Surefire you have a vigorous torch -- and it 'sure fires'! 

Definition of Ireland: a nation in the British Isles where they speak an unintelligible language vaguely like English but less interesting than what is spoken in Scotland or Wales. 

I have heard the term 'electric torch', which seemed to usually mean flashlight, except when it meant a carbon arc torch, which could be heat -- or maybe a carbon arc projection light (which is what set the celluloid film on fire). But if the film was a rush, would it then be a rushlight? 

I'm so confused.... :thinking:


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## Mr Bigglow (Oct 6, 2010)

bluepilgrim said:


> The terms can be interchangeable: if you overcharge your li-ions in your Surefire you have a vigorous torch -- and it 'sure fires'!
> 
> Definition of Ireland: a nation in the British Isles where they speak an unintelligible language vaguely like English but less interesting than what is spoken in Scotland or Wales.
> 
> ...


 
I think you've hit on something there- from memories of reading kid's books that belonged to my Dad when he was a boy, and we're going back a ways now, I believe the Brits originally used to say "electric torch," which later got shortened to just "torch."


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## computernut (Oct 6, 2010)

In Canada we call them flashlights but occasionally someone will call it a torch, mostly if it's bright, ie. "That's some torch you got there!"
- To me a torch is a propane torch for plumbing, etc.
- To 'torch' something is to set it on fire.
- A lantern throws light 360 degrees (although for some reason we still call lights that use 6V square batteries 'lanterns', probably because they use 6v lantern batteries)
- A spotlight is usually physically big and throws a small bright beam very far.


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## Blueknight (Oct 25, 2010)

Well it doesn't matter by what name you call them,if it operates off electricity to make light, it is an electrical lighting device. if it is a stick with fire on the end it's a torch.But on the other hand wicked lasers sells the "torch flashlight" which should make all y'all gay(happy).


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## JCK (Oct 25, 2010)

This is a great thread idea. I also wonder how much it has changed if you compared younger generations to older generations. I wonder if the younger generations in Aus would have a larger American influence on language, or certain words?



Gregozedobe said:


> As an Australian I find this discussion quite entertaining. I have a sneaking feeling that due to the largely one-way cultural transfer I can translate "US English" to "Australian English" better than the average American could translate "Australian English" to "US English", and particularly when it gets to less common slang (colloquillisms).



I know what you mean. After reading many threads on bladeforums and CPF, I learnt many new American equivalents to our Aussie words, that I simply hadn't heard before


I mostly use torch in my posts on CPF, but I think I am starting to use flashlight more, even though it sounds wrong to me. I have heard the term 'baggie', and it confused me at first, and I was confused as to what they meant, but it became obvious when they said ziploc baggie, so I guessed they meant ziploc bag. But I think that is just certain people, not the majority of Americans?

How many of you Americans use the term 'notes' instead of bills to describe money. I have never heard the term bill used here in Aus. But then an interesting thought I had, is that I have heard a wallet, called a "bill-fold" 

EDIT: if you lok at this link, about halfway down, under the heading "hardware" it mentions torch as being a flashlight, and oxie welder as being a torch
http://www.statsci.org/smyth/ozus.html

this also reminded me, whenever I hear a video reviewer say "the body's made from *Aluminum*" instead of Alumin*i*um, it sounds weird to me.

here is also a good link with comparisons - http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html


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## KiwiMark (Oct 25, 2010)

JCK said:


> I mostly use torch in my posts on CPF, but I think I am starting to use flashlight more, even though it sounds wrong to me.



I have been using 'flashlight' or 'light' on these forums for a while and now I sometimes find myself using 'flashlight' when talking to people - generally everyone would know what a flashlight is, but using that word makes me sound like an American because most NZers would use the word 'torch'.



JCK said:


> EDIT: if you lok at this link, about halfway down, under the heading "hardware" it mentions torch as being a flashlight, and oxie welder as being a torch
> http://www.statsci.org/smyth/ozus.html



Wow - that list is really interesting. I haven't finished reading it yet but I have already noticed some where we use the Aussie word, some where we use the US word and others where we use neither. (then there are some where we use either)
i.e.
Aussie ... US (NZ)
ice lolly ... popsicle, ice pop (ice block unless it is a Popsicle(tm))
lorry ... big rig (truck)
paper knife ... letter opener (letter opener)
ground floor ... first floor (ground floor)
fairy floss ... cotton candy (LOL - we call it candy floss)
flat ... apartment (either of those)
lounge room, sitting room ... living room (lounge (I've never heard it called a lounge room), living room)
clothes hoist ... clothes line (clothes line)
clothes pegs ... clothes pins (clothes pegs, pegs)

For the majority of those we use the same as Aussie, but there are quite a few where we NEVER use the Aussie word and the US one is normal here. I've never heard someone refer to an 'ice lolly' or 'ice pop' but everyone in NZ knows what an 'ice block' is.
Most people here are familiar with the word 'lorry' because it's what the poms call a truck on British TV programs.

There are a lot of examples that I was not aware of - words I didn't realise that the Aussies used and words that I didn't realise the Americans used. I was surprised that the Americans didn't use 'sultana' - do you Americans not even know that word? Here if you said 'yellow raisins' you would get a weird look.


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## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Oct 26, 2010)

KiwiMark said:


> Wow - that list is really interesting. I haven't finished reading it yet but I have already noticed some where we use the Aussie word, some where we use the US word and others where we use neither. (then there are some where we use either)
> i.e.
> Aussie ... US (NZ)
> ice lolly ... popsicle, ice pop (ice block unless it is a Popsicle(tm))
> ...



Some of those Aussie examples you have listed are incorrect, or at least aren't terms used here in the nanny state. Lorry, for example, is a British (or at least English) term and something that isn't part of the regular Australian dialogue. Here's my take on your examples:

Aussie ... US (NZ)
*ice block* ... popsicle, ice pop (ice block unless it is a Popsicle(tm))
*truck* ... big rig (truck)
paper knife ... letter opener (letter opener)
ground floor ... first floor (ground floor)
fairy floss ... cotton candy (LOL - we call it candy floss)
*unit* (flat is used but is less common these days)... apartment (either of those)
lounge room, sitting room ... living room (lounge (I've never heard it called a lounge room), living room)
*clothes line* (I guess clothes hoist must refer to a rotary clothes line such as the Hills Hoist but I've never heard it used) ... clothes line (clothes line)
clothes pegs ... clothes pins (clothes pegs, pegs)


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## Illum (Oct 26, 2010)

UnderTheWeepingMoon said:


> Some of those Aussie examples you have listed are incorrect, or at least aren't terms used here in the nanny state.



try here for more 
http://goaustralia.about.com/cs/language/a/aussiespeak2.htm

Idioms are the same
I get paid peanuts and I'd like to pick someone's brains for cost effective ideas for a decent torch without making a meal of it...

Versus


 I get paid very little, and I'd like to ask for advice for a cost effective flashlight without wasting alot of time on it


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## Syrlinger (Oct 27, 2010)

We just call them lamps or pocket lamps up here.


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## Acid87 (Oct 27, 2010)

The word torch has a lot of meanings and is used for hand held lighting objects in the UK and Ireland that ive experienced. 
The word "flash" light is never used over here unless somebody has an obsession with the hills or another US teen drama.

and pocket lamps well that just sounds mad. I bet the Dutch came up with this one.



To be fair though your all just British descendants anyway......


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## jimmy1970 (Oct 27, 2010)

I was talking to a guy at work about the different names used for different things around the world.

He was telling me that in South Africa, they call traffic lights 'Robots' and roundabouts 'circles'.:naughty:

James.....:twothumbs


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## lightcacher (Oct 28, 2010)

About 3000 miles...........


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## TITANER (Oct 30, 2010)

Wow,very helpful thread.I think flashlight and a torch is the same thing.People call it torch in European and American call it flaslight,but we call it shoudian in China.


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