# 2 C Cell Mini Maglite LED at Wal Mart



## ericjohn (Feb 26, 2016)

That is what I saw at the West Houma Wal Mart yesterday.

It takes 2 C Batteries but has a switching system similar to a Min Maglite.

This thing looked really cool by the way.

It reminded me somewhat of the 1 D Cell Kel Lite.

The model number is ML25T.

Has anyone else seen these?


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## Str8stroke (Feb 26, 2016)

Now I have. That is neat. That 2C looks small. Well small for a 2C light. Twisty is really neat.


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## parnass (Feb 26, 2016)

Maglite's web page for the ML25LT 2C twisty:

http://maglite.com/shop/flashlights/mid-size-flashlights/magliter-ml25lttm-2-cell-c-led-flashlight.html


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## bykfixer (Feb 26, 2016)

I have 2 in the mail. Scheduled to arrive Monday.
And for mod types or fans of xenons they also have a ML25*I*T

Once the LT's show up I'll decide if the IT version will be added to my Mag collection.


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## leon2245 (Feb 26, 2016)

Whoa I'm in for one. 25k + cd twisty in that package. Ty op for the heads up.


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## LeanBurn (Feb 26, 2016)

This light is so rare...Google doesn't even know about it. The one legit hit is to this thread. Nothing in Canada.

Hard to believe adding a 3rd C cell move the runtime from 2hrs to 18hrs, but yet has less peak cd and lumens ratings. Why would that be?


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## ericjohn (Feb 26, 2016)

How well would one of these work if mounted to a rifle or shotgun?


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## bykfixer (Feb 26, 2016)

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?414389-New-Mag-C-cell-incandescent-twisties-M25IT

This was where I first heard of it.
Google Mag ML25LT and you'll see it.


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## scout24 (Feb 26, 2016)

That's pretty cool! A big MiniMag... Still relatively small, 6" and change long, head about 3/8" slimmer than the regular C/D lights.


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## bykfixer (Feb 26, 2016)

I ordered 1 silver to hoping it will be like carrying an old Rayovac Sportsman that doesn't need to be banged against your hand every few seconds to re-light, or.... turned off every few minutes so the cells will last long enough to complete my walk. 

Eh, black one too, because to me Mag and black are like peanut butter and _grape_ jelly. They just work.


Another cool thread Eric.


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## Skeeterg (Feb 26, 2016)

Some good looking lights.


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## Tac Gunner (Feb 26, 2016)

I saw this the other night at Walmart and didn't have my tablet with me to take a pic of it. Meant to post about it and forgot. I was really tempted to pick one up and try it, it's such a neat looking little light.


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## AVService (Feb 26, 2016)

Maybe I am missing something attractive about this but this light runs for 2 hours?
Seems like an antique to me?

School me if I am wrong.


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## RWT1405 (Feb 26, 2016)

AVService said:


> Maybe I am missing something attractive about this but this light runs for 2 hours?
> Seems like an antique to me?
> 
> School me if I am wrong.




My guess is the time listed is for the incan version. But just a guess.


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## AVService (Feb 27, 2016)

RWT1405 said:


> My guess is the time listed is for the incan version. But just a guess.



It says 2hrs right on the packaging.
I am sort of puzzled by this?


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## AVService (Feb 27, 2016)

Well these were sitting at the Walmart I went to this morning and …..well….. you know.

So The 2 cell is sort of like a giant MiniMag in a sense but I just don't understand 2 things.
Why just one mode and only 177lm and how could they even get just 2hrs runtime unless they were trying to get the worst time possible?

I think it might just be a direct drive light?

Especially since the 3 cell lists 611 lm somehow for 16 hours!

How does this make any sense at all?

Anyway the 2 cell was $18 and the 3 cell was $33 so either way they each seem like pretty much light for the price even if the run times are wrong on both of them?

I will need to see.


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## Tac Gunner (Feb 27, 2016)

I'm honestly to the point of not caring about the specs and just getting one because they look really neat lol.


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## GaryM (Feb 27, 2016)

I think they should change the blurb on the package from "Spot to Flood" to "Spot to Ring".

But it is a nice size.


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## AVService (Feb 27, 2016)

Tac Gunner said:


> I'm honestly to the point of not caring about the specs and just getting one because they look really neat lol.



It got me


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## bykfixer (Feb 27, 2016)

Man, I'm with you Tac. To heck with waiting on FedEx to deliver mine....I'm going to WalMart!!! Hope they have pewter. 

On a conspiracy note: I wonder if Mag and a battery maker decided to attempt an increase in slumping sales of C cells...nah...they wouldn't do nuthin' crazy like that.

While there, I'll get some krylon clear coat to do a home-made light orange peel thing if it has the mini mag LED beam.


What is that light behind those Mags AV?


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## AVService (Feb 27, 2016)

Zebra SC52 the one I ALWAYS have with me.
Actually that is one of 3 they arebest light I have ever had I think.

I have decided the 2hr runtime thing might just be typical Mag terrible marketing and PR.
There is just no way this light can only get 2 hrs with 2 C cells?
I guess I will have to burn 2 to see.



bykfixer said:


> Man, I'm with you Tac. To heck with waiting on FedEx to deliver mine....I'm going to WalMart!!! Hope they have pewter.
> 
> On a conspiracy note: I wonder if Mag and a battery maker decided to attempt an increase in slumping sales of C cells...nah...they wouldn't do nuthin' crazy like that.
> 
> ...


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## dc38 (Feb 27, 2016)

Cool! Although I think I'll stick with my 6d and malkoff


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## bykfixer (Feb 27, 2016)

AVService said:


> Zebra SC52 the one I ALWAYS have with me.
> Actually that is one of 3 they arebest light I have ever had I think.
> 
> I have decided the 2hr runtime thing might just be typical Mag terrible marketing and PR.
> ...



That ZL looks Kool *and* the gang.

I know what you mean. Afterall the incan minimag says 5:45 run time...on 2 aa's...unless it's one wasteful of an emitter 2 hours does sound uber conservative, don't it?

Edit:
The 2C XL100 @137 lumens says 13 hours on high on the package.

Edit 2:



^^ screenshot of rated run time of the incan


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## scout24 (Feb 27, 2016)

Has anyone tried threading the old incan C head onto the LED twisty body yet?


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## novice (Feb 27, 2016)

It's probably too early to ask about a source of aftermarket aluminum reflectors. Would it take a PR-base ROP Pelican 3854-L bulb, running off of a pair of AW 18500s?


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## bykfixer (Feb 27, 2016)

^^ there is the ML25IT version that may be the one for that. 

I have 2 of the incans coming from Zbattery as they're only $15.99 ea. going in (plus ups 2-3 day or usps priority) 
I'm hoping these Mags will catch on so your quest can be achieved Novice....'cept for ROP part...aint no way I figure on finding any of those bulbs anytime soon. 

Seems more places are offering the LED of the mini mag on steroids (or shrunken 2C if you see it that way), yet the only place I've seen the incan version so far is at Zbattery. 
They're in the newest Mag catalog but not on their site. Hope that changes.


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## AVService (Feb 27, 2016)

Well under 3 hours on fresh Duracells.

That Sucks.


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## FRITZHID (Feb 27, 2016)

AVService said:


> Well under 3 hours on fresh Duracells.
> 
> That Sucks.



Wow, that's bad! :O


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## LeanBurn (Feb 27, 2016)

I was hoping that 2 hr rating was an error...so how does adding 1 more C cell move the runtime from 2hrs to 18hrs, but yet has less peak cd and lumens ratings? 

And why would the head/reflector be designed to be worse than the 2C ?


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## Roger Sully (Feb 27, 2016)

I'm going to run to Walmart to day and hopefully grab on of these. The Mrs will be at work so I'll just shut off the lights and test the run time.


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## AVService (Feb 27, 2016)

Roger Sully said:


> I'm going to run to Walmart to day and hopefully grab on of these. The Mrs will be at work so I'll just shut off the lights and test the run time.


Thats what I did except I drove there and then it was light in the house?

I don't think there is any kind of driver circuit in this one at all,I sure can't see it but I also haven't dismembered it yet to be sure.

What a strange design though either way.


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 27, 2016)

scout24 said:


> Has anyone tried threading the old incan C head onto the LED twisty body yet?


Yes,body diameter seems to be the same but the threading is not,doesn't work.  I'm curious as to the listed specs as well they do seem odd. Odd performance numbers aside I do like this Mag. The simple single level operation and near identical size to 2C slide switch lights of the incan era make it a winner for me as a utility light. I find that I can operate this light one handed better than than the Mini-Mag,perhaps due to the larger size.


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## bykfixer (Feb 27, 2016)

ZMZ67 said:


> Yes,body diameter seems to be the same but the threading is not,doesn't work.  I'm curious as to the listed specs as well they do seem odd. Odd performance numbers aside I do like this Mag. The simple single level operation and* near identical size* to* 2C slide switch lights* of the incan era make it a winner for me as a utility light. I find that I can operate this light one handed better than than the Mini-Mag,perhaps due to the larger size.



That's what I was hoping.


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 27, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> That's what I was hoping.



I have an chrome Eveready 2C with the red plastic switch and bezel.The Mag is not quite a 1/2" longer than that light. Maglites are not the same type of construction as the old c-cells of course(Mags are usually better) but the size is so close I think you will be pleased.  I am happy with the output whatever the actual lumen rating.If it runs at or near full output for 2 hours on alkaline C - cells that probably isn't too bad,hopefully it provides longer runtime at reduced output.I will stick to lithium AAs or maybe NiMH anyway,no leakers for me.


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 27, 2016)

Looking at the specs on Mags website it does say "Run Time High 2h".


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## bykfixer (Feb 27, 2016)

^^ all them zeros in the serial number.




^^ vs a repro 2D Rayovac and an incan mini mag.

I like the output too ZMZ. Using Rayovacs it has your typical Mag throw using the pencil beam or a giant hole in the flood light. 

I also liked that you can tell where the best 'spot' is based on friction. From off it turns fairly easy...that is until it gets to spot. Then it puts up a bit of a fight to go any further.

So you get it where you want it plus a couple of degrees and unscrew the tailcap a quarter turn to turn it off/on. Just like a mini mag but it stays put better than a mini mag.

Novice and Scout, you may like that it's cam-less.
I'll do an impression thread in the budget subforum tomorrow.


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## AVService (Feb 27, 2016)

ZMZ67 said:


> Looking at the specs on Mags website it does say "Run Time High 2h".


Yes thats what I keep saying,not very long compared to the 3 cell that gets 16h they claim.

Also there is only High.


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## swampgator (Feb 27, 2016)

I was at Walmart the other day and saw the shelf space where they were supposed to be. But they were out of stock.
I've been wanting one of these for awhile but just never got around to ordering one. I love that Walmart is stocking them now. 
Seems like the ultimate Mag in terms of form factor.


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## Burgess (Feb 28, 2016)

Interesting !


Wonder what the Current Draw is on this.


Won't even last 3 Hours on a pair of C alkalines !

:shakehead
_


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## Phaserburn (Feb 28, 2016)

I think it's a typo. Gotta get an led version. Sweet. I still have a goo place in my collection and heart for maglite.


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## AVService (Feb 28, 2016)

Phaserburn said:


> I think it's a typo. Gotta get an led version. Sweet. I still have a goo place in my collection and heart for maglite.


Its not a typo,read the thread!


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 28, 2016)

Burgess said:


> Interesting !
> 
> 
> Wonder what the Current Draw is on this.
> ...



The specs just state run time on high. There is no info that I caught saying what happens at the end of the 2 hours. It doesn't strike me as the type of light that would be regulated and cut off but I think someone is going to have do a run time test to get the info we want. You make a sacrifice with a single level light,run times are going to be commensurate with the output of the light.I was looking for other lights to compare this too but there aren't that many 2C LED lights,a lot of them are 3 cell.


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## AVService (Feb 28, 2016)

ZMZ67 said:


> The specs just state run time on high. There is no info that I caught saying what happens at the end of the 2 hours. It doesn't strike me as the type of light that would be regulated and cut off but I think someone is going to have do a run time test to get the info we want. You make a sacrifice with a single level light,run times are going to be commensurate with the output of the light.I was looking for other lights to compare this too but there aren't that many 2C LED lights,a lot of them are 3 cell.


I did the test,read above?

The light runs and dims until about dead and at under 3 hours is about 1/10 the original output.
This is just my eyeball guesstimate of the level but this one just does not have the battery life that I hoped it could.

There appears to be no electronics in it all and I assume it is direct drive simple?

It is a nice light and I love the size and heft but they did not do much to complete the package to my tastes and give it the kind of runtime the 2 bigger cells could provide and then it would have been a pretty amazing light for me.


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## maglite mike (Feb 28, 2016)

The new mags don't have a ring anymore. Although I haven't seen the flood on this particular model.


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## maglite mike (Feb 28, 2016)

Correct fron what I understand this is a direct drive with no step down etx. Therefore I think its a true 2 hours of 177 lumens.


AVService said:


> I did the test,read above?
> 
> The light runs and dims until about dead and at under 3 hours is about 1/10 the original output.
> This is just my eyeball guesstimate of the level but this one just does not have the battery life that I hoped it could.
> ...


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 28, 2016)

AVService said:


> I did the test,read above?
> 
> The light runs and dims until about dead and at under 3 hours is about 1/10 the original output.
> This is just my eyeball guesstimate of the level but this one just does not have the battery life that I hoped it could.
> ...



Sorry I missed that post! I am fine with the 2hr High run time but a little disappointed that it won't continue to run much after the 2hr point at reduced output.A Malkoff 2C drop-in is rated at 1.5 hrs (270 lumens) but it is supposed to run for several hours afterwards.Still like this light at less than $20 for utility purposes but maybe not so much for power outages and the like.At least it may prove reliable with simple operation and direct drive. The LED appears to be very small,maybe an XP-C ?,another possible explanation for the lack of efficiency.


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## bykfixer (Feb 28, 2016)

maglite mike said:


> Correct fron what I understand this is a direct drive with no step down etx. Therefore I think its a true 2 hours of 177 lumens.



Doesn't seem to be a regulated light MM, so 177 steady for 2 hours remains to be seen.
But for you...I'm trying out a lux meter app on my phone.
Next pic will be in an hour.




1:38pm 





I'll edit this post with the follow ups.

It does seem 2 hours is unfortunate. Especially if it's non regulated. 
The 3 cell version says it has 4 less lumens yet 9x the runtime. Must be that one has a differing (much more efficient) emitter perhaps?

Edit:




2:36pm

Watching it on the ceiling is interesting. It's almost like watching a candle output with a slight breeze in the room. 
It's about 1.5 hours and there is noticable changes occuring in the beam. There is a slightly dimmer ring around the spot. It's diameter is staying the same while the the bright spot shrinks and grows.
It was hardly noticable in hour 1. During hour 2 it's happening more regularly.




3:39 Pm....2 hours.
The globe is noticably warm, but not uncomfy by any means. Beam stuff I noted between hour 1 and 2 has stabilized.



4:33pm

So it made the 2 hours still burning brightly. 
Next comment will be about dimming or shutting down.


4:38, she's fading. Light is noticably dimmer.





4:51 she's fading fast. 





I shut it down at 4:55pm. There was still useable light for lighting shadows under a bed or finding dropped car keys etc. But I decided since it was noticably dimming by the minute the test was over before damaging the light as it was also getting noticably warmer by the minute. 

Conclusion:
2+ hours at rated output, 3/4 of the 3rd hour was as well. Then nearly an hour of decline. 
I'd say it's safe to say 2 things here:
1) this is not a max efficient flashlight. 
2) expect at least 3 hours useable light from a pair of Rayovac Alkalines.


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## ZMZ67 (Feb 28, 2016)

Maybe I will get a couple of the incan models and try a drop-in of some sort.Will be lower output but longer runtimes.If Gene would be willing to make a Malkoff drop-in for that light........!!! Knowing Mag they probably designed it to be drop-in proof so nobody could make one.:ironic:


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## Phaserburn (Feb 28, 2016)

2 hrs using alkaline Cs, regardless of the circuit, seems very unlikely.


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## AVService (Feb 28, 2016)

Phaserburn said:


> 2 hrs using alkaline Cs, regardless of the circuit, seems very unlikely.


Unlikely how?

I tried it and thats what it did.

I just got a Mini Mag Pro that does 2.5 hours at higher rated output?
They had to try to make one with this bad of a runtime!


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## bykfixer (Feb 28, 2016)

AVService said:


> Unlikely how?
> 
> I tried it and thats what it did.
> 
> ...



AV says it runs about 3 hours total. I believe him.
I'm just doing what I'm doing to test a pair of Rayovac alkalines. 
Frankly I'll be surprised if my results vary far from his.
I've been using Rayovac's partly because they're USA made, partly because they're cheaper, but mostly because they last at least as long as the copper bunny top ones.

My guess is Mag used an older gen emitter (read less efficient) for these.


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## StarHalo (Feb 28, 2016)

This would be so much more exciting if they'd just given it the same circuit as the MiniMag PRO, you'd think that would've been easier..


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## bykfixer (Feb 29, 2016)

^^ engineers man...
Just when you think you've got 'em figured out they go and revise on ya.


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## twin63 (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks AVService and bykfixer for taking the time to test and post results. Based on price, I may still pick up a couple to give my 25+ year old AA some company. I don't typically use my lights for long periods of time, so a set of batteries will last a while, although I admit it's a bit disappointing from an efficiency standpoint.


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## bykfixer (Feb 29, 2016)

twin63 said:


> Thanks AVService and bykfixer for taking the time to test and post results. Based on price, I may still pick up a couple to give my 25+ year old AA some company. I don't typically use my lights for long periods of time, so a set of batteries will last a while, although I admit it's a bit disappointing from an efficiency standpoint.



Definitely a solid light for occasional, short duration uses. I think it's a logical alternative to the mini mag in terms of the typical mini mag duties.

I've shown mine to a few folks who say "man that's pretty cool"..."what's the run time?"....I say 2 hours and thus far with 100% reaction is "oh, no thanks" and they hand it back. These have been folks who need light for a few hours at a time like those who work on restoring power lines, a couple of firemen and construction workers I've run into at work today.


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## twin63 (Feb 29, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> "what's the run time?"....2 hours


Based on what I've been buying lately, that would be an improvement! Lol. I've picked up 3 Surefire 6P's and 2 C2's over the last few weeks (missed out on them before the flashlight bug really hit me). At least one 6P will remain stock with its 1 hour runtime.

I think the 2C Mini Mags will be fun lights to mess around with. I have plenty of AA eneloops and some of the C adapters - that should be an inexpensive way to feed them.


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## jabe1 (Feb 29, 2016)

StarHalo said:


> This would be so much more exciting if they'd just given it the same circuit as the MiniMag PRO, you'd think that would've been easier..


I wonder if the slug from the Mini pro would swap into the C, that would make a much more interesting light.


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## maglite mike (Feb 29, 2016)

But 18 hrs for the three cell is pretty decent for direct drive with no step down


FRITZHID said:


> Wow, that's bad! :O


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## AVService (Feb 29, 2016)

True This!



StarHalo said:


> This would be so much more exciting if they'd just given it the same circuit as the MiniMag PRO, you'd think that would've been easier..


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## AVService (Feb 29, 2016)

I don't think we know yet that the 3 cell is also Direct Drive and I can not imagine that it is?



maglite mike said:


> But 18 hrs for the three cell is pretty decent for direct drive with no step down


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## bykfixer (Feb 29, 2016)

twin63 said:


> Based on what I've been buying lately, that would be an improvement! Lol. I've picked up 3 Surefire 6P's and 2 C2's over the last few weeks (missed out on them before the flashlight bug really hit me). At least one 6P will remain stock with its 1 hour runtime.
> 
> I think the 2C Mini Mags will be fun lights to mess around with. I have plenty of AA eneloops and some of the C adapters - that should be an inexpensive way to feed them.



Just ordered some C adapters my own self. That and a pair of imideon C cells for the black one the post man dropped off today. 









I decided the lowest S/N stays in the package. 
This is getting fun. Feels good to have a Mag back in the EDC rotation again.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 29, 2016)

Looking at bykfixer's lux reading, I see flat runtime for 2+ hours. It is regulated, not direct drive.

Bill


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## Poppy (Mar 1, 2016)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Looking at bykfixer's lux reading, I see flat runtime for 2+ hours. It is regulated, not direct drive.
> 
> Bill


I was thinking the same thing... but I don't understand why it is getting such a short run-time.

I would think, looking at HKJ's battery test of the alky C
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Panasonic Pro Power C UK.html
That it should get 5-7 hours at what should be about 350ma draw to produce 177 lumens.


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## bykfixer (Mar 1, 2016)

Home Depot has the 3 cell version.
4 less lumens yet 9x the (rated) runtime on 1 more cell. Crazy.




10 meters less throw as well.
The Mag engineers are freaking me out on this one.


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## xxo (Mar 1, 2016)

StarHalo said:


> This would be so much more exciting if they'd just given it the same circuit as the MiniMag PRO, you'd think that would've been easier..




That's what I was hoping they did when I first saw these.....270 ish lumens from a Xpg2 with greater run time and throw than the 2AA Mini Mag Pro. As it is, I don't have much interest in the 2C version, though the 3C might be decent.


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## Poppy (Mar 1, 2016)

9x the rated run-time. with the 3C.
I recall seeing a run-time/output chart of the 3D mags. They had their initial output, which dropped off considerably in the first hour or two, and then were only about 25% of their initial output for about 40 or so hours, and dragging on just above the 10% output level for another 30 hours or so.

Perhaps this 3C will do the same thing. IE not be regulated other than to drop off rapidly initially, and then drag on for the rest of the time at 20-30% of the initial output.


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## jabe1 (Mar 1, 2016)

Will someone with one of these please try to remove the LED pill. From the photos, I think it's the same as the MiniMag. If it is, then the pro pill will fit right in.


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## AVService (Mar 1, 2016)

jabe1 said:


> Will someone with one of these please try to remove the LED pill. From the photos, I think it's the same as the MiniMag. If it is, then the pro pill will fit right in.


Give me any kind of direction here at all and I will whack on it!


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## bykfixer (Mar 2, 2016)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Looking at bykfixer's lux reading, I see flat runtime for 2+ hours. It is regulated, not direct drive.
> 
> Bill



I was just showing off my fancy new smartphone app for dialing in a manual camera. 
I'll do a 2 hour run on the 3cell this weekend to see if it dims...if it stays steady I'll keep the clock going.


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## xxo (Mar 2, 2016)

BTW, whats with all the 0's in Mags serials? I was looking and some of my Mags and most of them have a bunch of 0's.....is there some kind of super secret code to Mag's serials?? or did I just get early ones?


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## bykfixer (Mar 2, 2016)

Well all my 'older model' lights have 3's and 7's etc where the zeros are in these. I presume that means early run lights, but there's no telling with MagLite...they'll tell ya they don't even know. 

My guess is the stamper knows, and I'd bet a Pepsi he or she has some pretty cool serial numbered MagLites.


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## nitedrive (Mar 3, 2016)

Thanks bykfixer for the run time test. It's clear that unlike many lights, including many Maglites, this one is going for flat, regulated output until the cells give out. I suspect the 3C does the same. Many lights as I'm sure most are aware slowly or even rapidly step down the output. This in a sense plays games with the rating system because you can claim a very high brightness, dim to say 11% after 1 minute then run for hours at this refused output level. The XL50 is VERY guilty of this sin. Hence 3AAA batteries seem to produce almost as much output and runtime as the 3C model. 
http://www.led-resource.com/2010/10/maglite-xl50-led-flashlight-review/

As for the much longer 3C run time, I think that is a case of just a very long tail on output vs time plot. Note one of the comments at the end of this review
http://www.led-resource.com/2015/04/maglite-ml300lx-review/
A poster noted that the 2D light went 33 hours at the low (143 lumen) setting while the 3D made it to 143(!) at the same output level. Well if you look at the plots you see that the 2D stayed flat for 11 hours vs 33 for the 3D. The 2D clearly has a less efficient boost converter (understandable). But that doesn't explain 33 vs 143 hours to get from 143 to 14.3 (10%) lumens. The review addressed this in a comment after the article. Basically they said that with 3 cells you don't need a voltage boost to drive the LED at a low level. So the system can run for a very long time with low cell voltage. However, when you consider the 2D system you need enough voltage to operate the boost converter. So you effectively hover just above 10% for a long time with the 3 cell but under 10% for a long time with a 2 cell. If the ML25 is like the ML300s then the 3C likely has 2x the flat run time and a very long, low output tail. 

Incidentally, while this seems like kind of a cool light, my local Walmart has the ML50L 3C lights for $33. Not much extra for a light with huge output (that drops fairly quickly according to the ML300 plots) but also has various modes.


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## bykfixer (Mar 4, 2016)

nitedrive said:


> Thanks bykfixer for the run time test.
> If the ML25 is like the ML300s then the 3C likely has 2x the flat run time and a very long, low output tail.
> 
> Incidentally, while this seems like kind of a cool light, my local Walmart has the ML50L 3C lights for $33. Not much extra for a light with huge output (that drops fairly quickly according to the ML300 plots) but also has various modes.



I like the simplicity of the on/off of this one. No fancy levels, no loopholes in output vs ratings, no gimmicky now-you-see-it-now-you-don't nonsense. 
However I would prefer the thing to have a side switch. If found the beam I like and use the tail cap to turn it on/off. 

I figure on doing some sort of run test on the 3C and hope you're correct or not far off nitedrive. 4 hour regulated with a mile long tail would be awesome.


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## AVService (Mar 4, 2016)

I wish I could share this enthusiasm here but if I can get the same output and runtime with an actual Mini Mag what is the appeal really f the C sized MiniMag?
I really like the form of this C cell Mini but the performance is just bizarre to me?

Also while I agree that the 33 dollar light is a lot more light all around it is also almost double the price and much less sized for easy carry too.

Such a shame to me that they could not focus on runtime with this 2C light.


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## bykfixer (Mar 4, 2016)

^^ they won't be my primary lights for various reasons. 
I bought a pewter one to have a light that at a glance is akin to some classic lights of my youth.
I like the regulated thing as well...at least in the 2 cell version. 
I'll decide later on the 3 cell version but bought it as an alternative to my Streamlight Stinger LED. Again I bought pewter as at a glance I'll know it aint the Stinger. 

It kinda comes down to whether this will be a primary light or not. And my thinking in terms of the mass public it likely will be. And I also believe the mass public will endorse this light by buying them in droves. 

There was 25 2-cell versions at my local Wal Mart on Saturday and none yesterday.
On Tuesday there was 12 3-cell versions at my local home depot. None on Wednesday. 

A year from now we'll see, but for now they're selling like hot cakes. 

I do not see the incan version catching on. Partly because incan aint cool to most. And partly because the incan mini mag beam flat out destroys the C size version. I'm still scratching my head on that one. When I shined it in my backyard there was a gigantic filament shadow. 
I was able to play around with it and get things about as good as the mini mag beam...but shouldn't have to...this is 2016 afterall.


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## fivemega (Mar 4, 2016)

*Has anybody measure tail current on 2C and 3C with fresh alkaline batteries?
Has anybody tested run time using rechargeable "C" cells?
Has anybody tested output and run time using single protected (3400 mAh) cell in 2C and 3C?
Has anybody measure inside and outside diameter of barrel?
Answer of above questions may answer your question too.

Thank you.*


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## bykfixer (Mar 4, 2016)

fivemega said:


> *Has anybody measure tail current on 2C and 3C with fresh alkaline batteries?
> Has anybody tested run time using rechargeable "C" cells?
> Has anybody tested output and run time using single protected (3400 mAh) cell in 2C and 3C?
> Has anybody measure inside and outside diameter of barrel?
> ...



I hear ya.

But my only question is...

*WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE MODS?* I'm down for a FiveMega clicky tailcap and a cooling head for my incan one. 

Well that and will they be available in camo...


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## ZMZ67 (Mar 4, 2016)

nitedrive said:


> Thanks bykfixer for the run time test. It's clear that unlike many lights, including many Maglites, this one is going for flat, regulated output until the cells give out. I suspect the 3C does the same. Many lights as I'm sure most are aware slowly or even rapidly step down the output. This in a sense plays games with the rating system because you can claim a very high brightness, dim to say 11% after 1 minute then run for hours at this refused output level. The XL50 is VERY guilty of this sin. Hence 3AAA batteries seem to produce almost as much output and runtime as the 3C model.
> http://www.led-resource.com/2010/10/maglite-xl50-led-flashlight-review/
> 
> As for the much longer 3C run time, I think that is a case of just a very long tail on output vs time plot. Note one of the comments at the end of this review
> ...



Some useful info. Their review of the Mini Mag Pro is also worth a look.I think the ML25 is better than it's specs make it sound since it seems to offer a consistent output but I also believe Mag has used a less efficient LED in this light.Looking at the LED side by side with that of the Mini-Mag Pro it is noticeably smaller than that of the PRO leading me to think it my be a lower cost XP-C or something similar. Like bykfixer I appreciate the fact that this is a no nonsense single level light.The 3C might be better overall but the size of the 2C ML25 appeals to me more. The LED pills of the ML25 and the Mini-Mag Pro are very similar but I don't know how easy it would be to swap them and I really don't want to ruin either light trying at this point. I have plenty of runtime kings and lights that drop output in short order for runtime anyway.


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## AVService (Mar 4, 2016)

Same here exactly.
I would be happy to tear into it with a little guidance from anyone who has tried but I don't want to experiment badly enough and possibly kill the light……yet.

But I have to wonder why if it would be a simple swap they would not just build it like the 2AA in the first place too?

You would imagine the only real difference would be run time with a lot more out of the C cells or am I missing something?



ZMZ67 said:


> Some useful info. Their review of the Mini Mag Pro is also worth a look.I think the ML25 is better than it's specs make it sound since it seems to offer a consistent output but I also believe Mag has used a less efficient LED in this light.Looking at the LED side by side with that of the Mini-Mag Pro it is noticeably smaller than that of the PRO leading me to think it my be a lower cost XP-C or something similar. Like bykfixer I appreciate the fact that this is a no nonsense single level light.The 3C might be better overall but the size of the 2C ML25 appeals to me more. The LED pills of the ML25 and the Mini-Mag Pro are very similar but I don't know how easy it would be to swap them and I really don't want to ruin either light trying at this point. I have plenty of runtime kings and lights that drop output in short order for runtime anyway.


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## ZMZ67 (Mar 4, 2016)

AVService said:


> Same here exactly.
> I would be happy to tear into it with a little guidance from anyone who has tried but I don't want to experiment badly enough and possibly kill the light……yet.
> 
> But I have to wonder why if it would be a simple swap they would not just build it like the 2AA in the first place too?
> ...



It is hard to tell with Mag sometimes. Maybe they were responding to consumers complaining of declining brightness and were trying to address that or perhaps they found a low cost a package they could sell cheaply,maybe a little of both...who knows?. Having a standard socket that could accept various LED pills would be the obvious answer to me,look at the success of the incan conversions and the SF P60 drop-ins.Mag is very protective of their product line though and doesn't want any after-market mods for their lights so it probably will never happen. Unfortunately I doubt Mag has made it easy to swap modules expressly to prevent modification.


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## bykfixer (Mar 4, 2016)

^^ agreed.
Mag and Streamlight change little things to make whole sale modifying their products without a drill or dremel..shall we say..difficult. 
_Some_ parts will swap on _some_ other lights _some_times. 
I'm guessing removing the LED pill won't be hard once we know how. But what others fit? Time will tell. 

Mag has indeed found a way to provide a solid regulated light for not a lot of dough. 
And after buying a buncha C cells for lights out scenarios I have a pair of 1.2 volt 5000 maH cells in my pewter one now. 

My (formerly 30 lumen) red incan one has a pair of 18500's and a 4 cell xenon Mag bulb. 




^^ the incan beam after the change.




^^ encore pic of the LED version


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 5, 2016)

Makes me want to go back to incandescent bulbs. Good comparison. 

Bill


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## Tac Gunner (Mar 5, 2016)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Makes me want to go back to incandescent bulbs. Good comparison.
> 
> Bill


I agree that incan looks great, a lot better than the LED version. Of course I have come to prefer 4000k to 4500k tint in my led lights anyway


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## bykfixer (Mar 5, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> I was just showing off my fancy new smartphone app for dialing in a manual camera.
> I'll do a 2 hour run on the 3cell this weekend to see if it dims...if it stays steady I'll keep the clock going.



Test began at 11:20. Using 3 cells with oh, maybe 10 minutes on them I used the same technique as the 2 cell test.




^^ the wall was included in the observation.
Because I was looking for this light to dim I used the spill cast on the wall as well. 




11:22am 
Right off the bat I noticed this light is not as bright as the 640 lux reading of the 2 cell version. 
In outdoor use the difference isn't noticable. But the light meter says there's a big difference. 

After 30 minutes it appeared as though the spill cast on the wall was dimmer. The meter did not show the change _I thought I saw_. An hour in I was pretty sure...but again the meter said otherwise.
Instead of doing the "watched pot never boils" thing I waited out the extra hour.




^^ 1:29 pm
Yep I was right. 

Now this wasn't some sudden step down thing. So if Mag designed this to step down it's akin to say...the PK FL2 where it steps down gradually. 
I suppose DVM readings will be in order to determine for certain. I can say for certain that it does gradually dim.


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## Woods Walker (Mar 5, 2016)

AVService said:


> Well under 3 hours on fresh Duracells.
> 
> That Sucks.



Wow. That totally sucks. I actually like [email protected] but...... No....... Anyone get a photo of the emitter?

edit. Looks like it might be regulated per some other posts.


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## Frdlite (Mar 5, 2016)

Just bought one in 2 cell it is plenty bright for most tasks.It is not yet dark out so I have not really put it through it's pace.


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## bykfixer (Mar 5, 2016)

The 2 cell is flat regulated for 2+ hours on a pair of 1000 +/- mah 1.2 volt alkaleaks with at least an hour decline.
The 3 cell using 3 alkaleaks is rated to last 18 hours...and in this case a very gradual decline.

Both are simple, reliable operating systems with predictable output, built in the US for under $25. 

Compared to all those over engineered crowd pleaser gizmos of late I think Mag dun good here.


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## StorminMatt (Mar 5, 2016)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Makes me want to go back to incandescent bulbs. Good comparison.
> 
> Bill



I agree. If I would be happy with two hours at 177 lumens, I can just grab my SC5w. That gives me 187 lumens for 1.8 hours from a single AA (with a FAR better tint to boot). By that measure, this light SHOULD run for close to 8 hours on two C cells (which have four times the energy of a single AA). So the way I see things, the LED version just doesn't offer much. The incandescent at least has something unique to offer (particularly since I'm guessing the LED version uses some nasty cool white emitter).


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## bykfixer (Mar 5, 2016)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Makes me want to go back to incandescent bulbs. Good comparison.
> 
> Bill



Agreed. The turbo charged mag star 2 is pretty fun while it lasts.


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## nitedrive (Mar 6, 2016)

StorminMatt said:


> I agree. If I would be happy with two hours at 177 lumens, I can just grab my SC5w. That gives me 187 lumens for 1.8 hours from a single AA (with a FAR better tint to boot). By that measure, this light SHOULD run for close to 8 hours on two C cells (which have four times the energy of a single AA). So the way I see things, the LED version just doesn't offer much. The incandescent at least has something unique to offer (particularly since I'm guessing the LED version uses some nasty cool white emitter).



A while back I asked the forum what sort of "lumen*hours" might one reasonably expect out of a AA alkaline battery. Of course it's not as simple but consider, an older Energizer Lithium Ultimate I had delivered a basically flat-regulated 110 lumens for about 1 hour on 2AA batteries. The newer LEDs are more efficient but not much more. With a 1 cell light you likely lose more power to the boost converter. Is it realistic to expect that with half the battery capacity (1 vs 2) a light will produce ~60% more light, 80% longer (assuming same efficiency that's 288% more lumen*hours). It is highly likely the SC5w is dropping output to get that combination of long runtime and high output. I suspect a light with 2 alkaline cells isn't going to be significantly more efficient than this Maglite. Which means we could kind of assume it takes the power of 2C cells to actually deliver 177 lumens for 2 hours. 

Note: 3C regulation is more poewr efficient hence adding a third cell can result in more than just 50% more regulated run time (see the 2d vs 3d "low" power, regulated run time of the ML300L lights).


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 6, 2016)

We are shooting in the dark here. We need current draw at the tailcap for the 2C and 3C. This will give us some good info.

Bill1


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## bykfixer (Mar 6, 2016)

Bullzeyebill said:


> We are shooting in the dark here. We need current draw at the tailcap for the 2C and 3C. This will give us some good info.
> 
> Bill1



Point me to a 'how to' and I'll take a stab at it. 
I have a decent Klein DVM I used a few times on my cars. But the how to memories were long since purged after joining CPF...replaced with battery chemistry, lux n lumens info and stuff like that.


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## FRITZHID (Mar 6, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Point me to a 'how to' and I'll take a stab at it.
> I have a decent Klein DVM I used a few times on my cars. But the how to memories were long since purged after joining CPF...replaced with battery chemistry, lux n lumens info.



Easy. Set vom to highest amp reading, take probes and put on batt neg and the other on the threads of the body tube while the light is ON. Will show you the current draw.


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## bykfixer (Mar 6, 2016)

FRITZHID said:


> Easy. Set vom to highest amp reading, take probes and put on batt neg and the other on the threads of the body tube while the light is ON. Will show you the current draw.



These lights turn off when the tail cap is rotated a quarter turn.
Does that matter?
Black on the battery?


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## AVService (Mar 6, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> These lights turn off when the tail cap is rotated a quarter turn.
> Does that matter?
> Black on the battery?


The Meter should complete the circuit as you are going to be reading the current flowing through the completed circuit including the meter.
So when you connect it like suggested above the light will turn back on.


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## Frdlite (Mar 6, 2016)

I measured 1.11 amp for the 2 cell led with a fresh set of batterys


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## bykfixer (Mar 6, 2016)

AVService said:


> The Meter should complete the circuit as you are going to be reading the current flowing through the completed circuit including the meter.
> So when you connect it like suggested above the light will turn back on.



Cool. I'll dig out the meter tomorrow in daylight. I thought it was in my spare room, but believe it's in the trunk of my Prelude that's still wrapped up for winter storage. 



Frdlite said:


> I measured 1.11 amp for the 2 cell led with a fresh set of batterys


^^ welcome to the site. 
Thanks for the info. 


So yet another question:
Run it a while, check draw, run another while and check draw? Or tape the meter to the light and watch for changes perhaps?

I get the whole touch the cell/body part but what am I looking for reading-wise to determine regulated or no and/or step down rate if that's the case?


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 6, 2016)

For the 2C LED model:

I'm measuring 1.04A w/ a Nimh cell @ 1.31V resting voltage.

I'm going to recharge the Nimh cells & perform a runtime test as well.

My cells are Accuevolution 4500mAh that are about 4 years old but only have around 10 partial cycles on them. They have been charged & conditioned via a MAHA 808M.


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## fivemega (Mar 6, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Point me to a 'how to' and I'll take a stab at it.



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Simple-guide-to-using-a-DMM-for-measurements


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 6, 2016)

The 2C must be regulated.

With freshly charged cells showing 1.437V resting I measured .998A current draw at the tail cap.

So far I'm 45 minutes into the runtime test & zero output loss so far.

Edit1: 1Hr 45 min: no drop in output.

Edit2: 2hr 51 min: no drop in output.

Edit3: 3hr 31 min: no drop in output. This is going to be longer than I thought....

Edit4: 3hr 51 min: no drop in output.

Edit5: 4hr 15 min: Big drop in output.

The lux meter app I was using on my was showing "145" until the 4hr 15min test. At that point it had dropped down to "9".

The batteries were at .95V at this point. I will have to retest & start checking more closely @the 4hr mark on another day.


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## bykfixer (Mar 6, 2016)

I shut mine off after an hour of dimming began simply because the light was getting so warm. But output was still a bunch of useable light. That was the 2C using rayovac alkalines. 


Coming soon:

UltraClear and hard coat lenses for these from flashlight lens. Chris says glass aint far behind.


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## StorminMatt (Mar 6, 2016)

nitedrive said:


> A while back I asked the forum what sort of "lumen*hours" might one reasonably expect out of a AA alkaline battery. Of course it's not as simple but consider, an older Energizer Lithium Ultimate I had delivered a basically flat-regulated 110 lumens for about 1 hour on 2AA batteries. The newer LEDs are more efficient but not much more. With a 1 cell light you likely lose more power to the boost converter. Is it realistic to expect that with half the battery capacity (1 vs 2) a light will produce ~60% more light, 80% longer (assuming same efficiency that's 288% more lumen*hours). It is highly likely the SC5w is dropping output to get that combination of long runtime and high output. I suspect a light with 2 alkaline cells isn't going to be significantly more efficient than this Maglite. Which means we could kind of assume it takes the power of 2C cells to actually deliver 177 lumens for 2 hours.
> 
> Note: 3C regulation is more poewr efficient hence adding a third cell can result in more than just 50% more regulated run time (see the 2d vs 3d "low" power, regulated run time of the ML300L lights).



The SC5w actually has a very flat output, especially on H2 (187 lumens). Admittedly, the stated runtime for the SC5w is with a 2400mAH NiMH battery rather than an alkaline battery. So this might make a difference. It might also be why runtime is so short on this Mag. A current draw of a little over an amp is kind of pushing an alkaline battery, even a C cell. So voltage probably drops too low quite early in comparison to the amount of energy the battery holds. It might run closer to 4-5 hours on some Tenergy Premium NiMH C cells (which can hold their voltage and crank out 1-1.5A without coming close to breaking a sweat). But even THAT is kind of short when you consider what you get from the SC5w (or a decent 2xAA light like the Eagletac D25A2) at a comparable brightness.


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## nitedrive (Mar 7, 2016)

StorminMatt said:


> The SC5w actually has a very flat output, especially on H2 (187 lumens). Admittedly, the stated runtime for the SC5w is with a 2400mAH NiMH battery rather than an alkaline battery. So this might make a difference. It might also be why runtime is so short on this Mag. A current draw of a little over an amp is kind of pushing an alkaline battery, even a C cell. So voltage probably drops too low quite early in comparison to the amount of energy the battery holds. It might run closer to 4-5 hours on some Tenergy Premium NiMH C cells (which can hold their voltage and crank out 1-1.5A without coming close to breaking a sweat). But even THAT is kind of short when you consider what you get from the SC5w (or a decent 2xAA light like the Eagletac D25A2) at a comparable brightness.



It still seems very off to me. Remember, even if we are talking about a 2400 mAh cell, that cell would have to produce ~2x the current as the 2C cell setup to deliver the same power to the boost converter. According to Energizer at 1A the cell capacity is seriously diminished. It looks like a 1A discharge rate gives you ~2400 mAh of capacity. So in that case the larger C cell basically ties the 2400 NiMH AA cell for capacity. So you still have twice the usable power. I'm thinking the SC5w has to be stepping back in order to deliver similar run time to the ML25.
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E93.pdf


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## StorminMatt (Mar 7, 2016)

nitedrive said:


> It still seems very off to me. Remember, even if we are talking about a 2400 mAh cell, that cell would have to produce ~2x the current as the 2C cell setup to deliver the same power to the boost converter. According to Energizer at 1A the cell capacity is seriously diminished. It looks like a 1A discharge rate gives you ~2400 mAh of capacity. So in that case the larger C cell basically ties the 2400 NiMH AA cell for capacity. So you still have twice the usable power. I'm thinking the SC5w has to be stepping back in order to deliver similar run time to the ML25.
> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E93.pdf



The tested battery for the SC5w was an Eneloop Pro, not an Energizer alkaline. At 1A, an Eneloop Pro is not even breaking a sweat. An alkaline battery is a different story, of course.


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## Poppy (Mar 7, 2016)

FroggyTaco said:


> The 2C must be regulated.
> 
> With freshly charged cells showing 1.437V resting I measured .998A current draw at the tail cap.
> 
> ...


Froggy Taco,
Thank you for that ^ 

It is nice to see that it is a regulated light.
The output @ 1 amp though is terrible.
Would it be easy enough to swap in an XP-G2 emitter? @ 1 amp, that'll deliver up to 338 lumens. See the data sheet HERE.

BTW, HKJ's testing for a Alkaline Panasonic C cell shows that it'll deliver 1 amp for about 3 hours. and a capacity of about 3200 mah @ 1 amp.
Eneloops will deliver 1 amp for about 2 hours 15 minutes.


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## nitedrive (Mar 7, 2016)

StorminMatt said:


> The tested battery for the SC5w was an Eneloop Pro, not an Energizer alkaline. At 1A, an Eneloop Pro is not even breaking a sweat. An alkaline battery is a different story, of course.



I made that assumption. The Energizer data is for an alkaline C-cell, the type used in the Maglite. What that tells us is that a C-cell alkaline delivers basically the same capacity (at a slightly higher voltage) as the Eneloop at an ~1A load. So if we ignore the somewhat higher voltage of the alkaline vs NiMH the Maglite still has twice the usable capacity since it has two cells.

Poppy's post is suggesting that my capacity estimate for the Alkaline C-cell may be conservative. Using his data the 2 C cells should have nearly 3x the capacity. 

As for the emitter, (warning, speculation and I don't know my emitters off the top of my head) I wonder if Maglite chose a smaller emitter to get more throw. While lumens is an easy number to fixate on I've found that sometimes I'm willing to trade output for throw. For example, I have a Solitaire LED and a Thrunite Ti3. The Ti3 claims 120 lumens vs 37. However, it has a VERY floody beam. Inside the house that works reasonably well but outside the tighter beam of the Solitaire is more useful since it allows me to see further out. It's possible that in the case of the ML25 Maglite deliberately picked spot over flood even at the expense of overall lumens. Of course it's also possible that they already had the LED "bulb" (for lack of a better term) assembly from another light so they simply streamlined production around that assembly.


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## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2016)

nitedrive said:


> I made that assumption. The Energizer data is for an alkaline C-cell, the type used in the Maglite. What that tells us is that a C-cell alkaline delivers basically the same capacity (at a slightly higher voltage) as the Eneloop at an ~1A load. So if we ignore the somewhat higher voltage of the alkaline vs NiMH the Maglite still has twice the usable capacity since it has two cells.
> 
> Poppy's post is suggesting that my capacity estimate for the Alkaline C-cell may be conservative. Using his data the 2 C cells should have nearly 3x the capacity.
> 
> As for the emitter, (warning, speculation and I don't know my emitters off the top of my head) I wonder if Maglite chose a smaller emitter to get more throw. While lumens is an easy number to fixate on I've found that sometimes I'm willing to trade output for throw. For example, I have a Solitaire LED and a Thrunite Ti3. The Ti3 claims 120 lumens vs 37. However, it has a VERY floody beam. Inside the house that works reasonably well but outside the tighter beam of the Solitaire is more useful since it allows me to see further out. It's possible that in the case of the ML25 Maglite deliberately picked spot over flood even at the expense of overall lumens. Of course it's also possible that they already had the LED "bulb" (for lack of a better term) assembly from another light so they simply streamlined production around that assembly.



On the battery life although I agree with Poppys numbers, this light don't achieve that. I'll let people way smarter than me discuss the why's and why not's. 

I'll comment on the second half based on my discussions with numerous non flashaholics since I got bit by the bug. 

They own D size lights (many still incan) because they throw so dang far. They frequently mention somebody they know has one of those 'big ones' that throws a quarter mile...and when their light gets dim they change batteries. 

They typically own mini mags as glove box lights for lighting up the nearby world. 
So when Mag decided to create the 2C mini mag that is likely who they were thinking of. They likely picked an emitter for both reasons cited. It's already in stock and it tosses a beam like the big lights are famous for. 
That's why early on I predicted it would be a hit. 

Good or bad, look at how many members here at the site have commented about 'em on this thread.


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

Here's a close-up of the led with my iPhone:

This led is tiny. XP-E or XP-C I'm guessing.

http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/...ence Pics/Mag 2C Led/IMG_3526_zpsaa2v8wqd.jpg


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

My calipers tell me that the base is .136in x .136in which is equal to 3.45mm x 3.45mm.

Looking at the Cree website makes me think it's a XP-E2. 2 Bond wires, silver PCB...

http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/XLamp/Discrete-Directional/XLamp-XPE2-Torch


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## Poppy (Mar 7, 2016)

FroggyTaco said:


> My calipers tell me that the base is .136in x .136in which is equal to 3.45mm x 3.45mm.
> 
> Looking at the Cree website makes me think it's a XP-E2. 2 Bond wires, silver PCB...
> 
> http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/XLamp/Discrete-Directional/XLamp-XPE2-Torch



Thanks again... IIRC, the XP-C max is 500ma.
Looking at the XP-E2 datasheet, it should do 280-360 lumens at one amp.
Could it be that the 2C mag led really has more output in lumens than they claim?


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

fivemega said:


> *Has anybody measure tail current on 2C and 3C with fresh alkaline batteries?
> Has anybody tested run time using rechargeable "C" cells?
> Has anybody tested output and run time using single protected (3400 mAh) cell in 2C and 3C?
> Has anybody measure inside and outside diameter of barrel?
> ...



OD= 1.195"
ID= 1.036"


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## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2016)

FroggyTaco said:


> OD= 1.195"
> ID= 1.036"



With my $5 sliding caliper I got 27mm ID. 
Again it's a $5 slider so it is a +/- thing. Your 1.036 is like 26.3mm which is....

Close enough for gov't work where I live. 

My digital caliper has a dead battery so I use the slider for 'round about' measurements lately.


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

Poppy said:


> Thanks again... IIRC, the XP-C max is 500ma.
> Looking at the XP-E2 datasheet, it should do 280-360 lumens at one amp.
> Could it be that the 2C mag led really has more output in lumens than they claim?



I'm thinking quite possibly. Here's some screenshots to check out:

Mag2C Led vs HDS Hi CRi 200 Lumen






Mag 2C Led vs EagleTac D25A






Mag 2C Led vs Custom Mag 2C DD NW XM-L(1x18650)






Mag 2C Led vs ZL SC62d on High:






Mag2C Led vs VoB 2C w NW XM-L2 MagLed Deep Reflector






Vob Mag 2C, HDS, Mag 2c Led, ZL SC62d, EagleTac D25A, Preon P0






VoB Mag2C, Mag 2C Led, Custom Mag2C.


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## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2016)

The package says 2 hour runtime. I got 2.5 regulated with alkalines and after an hour very useable light. So their numbers are conservative in that realm.

So it could be more of the same for the output.


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## Phaserburn (Mar 7, 2016)

1 amp with the voltage of two Alks doesn't mean an amp to the led. The circuit will burn some of that current to create more voltage as needed. This is why three cell or one liion cell lights are optimally efficient; that are as close to the LEDs forward voltage as possible. One amp in a 3C would be brighter and probably mean a step down shortly after startup.


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

Phaserburn said:


> 1 amp with the voltage of two Alks doesn't mean an amp to the led. The circuit will burn some of that current to create more voltage as needed. This is why three cell or one liion cell lights are optimally efficient; that are as close to the LEDs forward voltage as possible. One amp in a 3C would be brighter and probably mean a step down shortly after startup.



Excellent point.

I see this light as being about the most compact C cell light with clean lines & good build quality for a very reasonable price out there. I just hope this light or the incandescent version is highly moddable like the old incandescent models.

I have a severe soft spot for Mag C cell lights....


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

So the modding aspect got me thinking.... Will my 5000mAh 26700 cell fit into the tube without boring? Nope. But man it is ever so close. The threads are just slightly bigger in ID than the main tube.

The caliper measurements is the OD of the portion of the cell that's in the tube.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2016)

Did somebody say mod?
A pair of 18500's with a 4 cell mag star 2
So far so good on the bulb, but TL3 bulbs are on the way. 
Went from 30 lumen yawner to wow, Wow, WOW. 
No spring mod required. 
The mag lens gets mighty hot so not far off a glass UCL will replace the factory one.


----------



## Poppy (Mar 7, 2016)

LOL... New thread...
How do you get a stuck 26700 cell out of a 2C mag? 




FroggyTaco said:


> So the modding aspect got me thinking.... Will my 5000mAh 26700 cell fit into the tube without boring? Nope. But man it is ever so close. The threads are just slightly bigger in ID than the main tube.
> 
> The caliper measurements is the OD of the portion of the cell that's in the tube.


----------



## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Did somebody say mod?
> A pair of 18500's with a 4 cell mag star 2
> So far so good on the bulb, but TL3 bulbs are on the way.
> Went from 30 lumen yawner to wow, Wow, WOW.
> ...




What a sec... Is that the ML25IT(Incandescent version?) your modding?


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2016)

Yup...

I bought an LED to begin with...in case I didn't like the light (it would still be a good glove box light)...but my intention was to build a 3x123 with a 5 cell bulb with an IT model if I liked the light. 

Well fivemega went and suggested a pair of 18500's and the TL 3 bulb. I had some 4 cell bulbs in stock. I used the kinder/gentler LifePo4 batteries for solar lights.


----------



## Tribull (Mar 7, 2016)

Got one of these little guys at the big w today. I really like the size of it. I dropped it on the floor when the bag ripped, do you think it's ok? Seems to work fine.


----------



## StarHalo (Mar 7, 2016)

Tribull said:


> Got one of these little guys at the big w today. I really like the size of it. I dropped it on the floor when the bag ripped, do you think it's ok? Seems to work fine.



As long as it's not the incan version, you're fine.


----------



## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Did somebody say mod?



So... does the battery side of the incan & led tube look the same? 

I'm noticing your incan tube has a white ring switch around the bulb base whereas the led version has a black ring switch.


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 7, 2016)

Ok, so I actually only heard about these like a week ago. Somebody sent me one to mod. I look inside the bottom and see a pair of holes in the base of the switch. So I'm thinking pronged tool like in the old old D/C mags where you removed the retaining ring from the top right.... 



Wrong. I torqued on it until the plastic shredded and the brass prongs on the tool bent LOL! 






Turns out all you need is a hammer and a socket. That pill is just a pressed fit in there and the on/off is triggered by an internal part sliding up and down which makes contact with the battery + in the up position.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2016)

FroggyTaco said:


> So... does the battery side of the incan & led tube look the same?
> 
> I'm noticing your incan tube has a white ring switch around the bulb base whereas the led version has a black ring switch.



Pretty much Travis..'cept for the color.





Now I went and did a bit of tweaking a couple of these.
First the incan. As shown before narrower cells are used. So I made a bit of an improvement using a 90¢ piece of 3/4" ID-25(+)mm OD PVC pipe. The inner port is slightly larger than the battery. But the OD was near ideal as it easily slides in/out but also fits very well.




^^ 2' piece was 90¢




^^ says "2x18500/C-size" "1 of ?"




^^ 1/4" shorter than the cells worked great.




^^ note the slight gap. 
A $1 bill will fill the gap. But once the cap is on it was generally rattle free.

TL3 bulbs scheduled to arrive Thu.

Now the LED lights. I suppose folks have noticed these are round. Thus far not accessories have been named. Enter Streamlight Stinger anti-roll ring.




^^ $5-8 depending on the source.

Ok, so I did the reading on the 3C. I got 0.684 amp.




^^ this was the test on 3 fresh Rayovacs




^^ meter setup




^^ how I got the reading.

Note the genuine 1953 Masonite counter top with alluminum trim. Turns out I keep my electrical stop at my pops place where my son and I work on cars. 

Put some IMEDION's in the black 2C to give it more feeling of heft of cops lights from long ago. Put some Eneloops with adapters in the pewter to give it more of a thin walled 2C Rayovac from days gone by.
Welp, that's it for now.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2016)

vestureofblood said:


> Ok, so I actually only heard about these like a week ago. Somebody sent me one to mod. I look inside the bottom and see a pair of holes in the base of the switch. So I'm thinking pronged tool like in the old old D/C mags where you removed the retaining ring from the top right....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cool *and* the gang.

Did you bang it out towards the head?


----------



## FroggyTaco (Mar 7, 2016)

vestureofblood said:


> Ok, so I actually only heard about these like a week ago. Somebody sent me one to mod. I look inside the bottom and see a pair of holes in the base of the switch. So I'm thinking pronged tool like in the old old D/C mags where you removed the retaining ring from the top right....
> 
> Wrong. I torqued on it until the plastic shredded and the brass prongs on the tool bentLOL!
> 
> Turns out all you need is a hammer and a socket. That pill is just a pressed fit in there and the on/off is triggered by an internal part sliding up and down which makes contact with the battery + in the up position.



So in other words incredibly easy to mod!

Machine a pill & a lil arctic alumina adhesive & compact awesomeness.


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 7, 2016)

bykfixer,

You hit it from the top end and the switch drops out the bottom.

Froggy,

Very easy to get apart. Building a light engine that is single mode where the heat sink is the ground would be fairly easy. Adding a driver board to that mix will be more challenging because of the limited space, but still not as time consuming as many Surefires.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2016)

Thank you VoB

Btw: sig links no worky.


Edit:
Where'd ericjohn go? I wanted to thank him for starting this star studded thread.


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 8, 2016)

Thanks. Sigline should be working now


----------



## StarHalo (Mar 8, 2016)

So let me know when the turnkey XHP70 is ready..


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 8, 2016)

Worky now VoB.

Folks, flashlight lens .com just came out with some lens upgrades for these.
Hard coated (read anti scratch) and some anti reflective. Word is glass isn't far off.

I emailed them Saturday to request a couple of custom mades. The email respond indicated that they will have some soon. Today 3 different type of plastic upgrades are in the roster and it's reported that glass will be available asap.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Mar 8, 2016)

Got to thinking, wonder if they are using the same circuit for the 2 and 3C? Notice that the current draw at tailcap is lower with the 3C. Could be a buck/boost circuit? Way to find out is to run a LiIon in the 2C and see if current is lower than with 2C's.

Bill


----------



## FRITZHID (Mar 8, 2016)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Got to thinking, wonder if they are using the same circuit for the 2 and 3C? Notice that the current draw at tailcap is lower with the 3C. Could be a buck/boost circuit? Way to find out is to run a LiIon in the 2C and see if current is lower than with 2C's.
> 
> Bill



& Hope it doesn't ::: POOF ::: ! Lol


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 8, 2016)

I can say 2 18500 lifepo's didn't make the 2C LT any brighter. But they sure do make a difference in the 2 cell IT model.
I placed a pair in an LT next to an LT with rayovacs and turned them on briefly. If one was brighter I couldn't tell. 

I was thinking 'buck' in the 3C since the emitter looks the same. But all that stuff is beyond my pay grade at this point.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Mar 8, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> I can say 2 18500 lifepo's didn't make the 2C any brighter.



Did you read the current at the tail using the 18500's? Not brighter can be an indicator of a buck circuit, maintaining the same current to the LED as the 2C's.

Bill


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 8, 2016)

No I didn't. At that point I didn't know how to.

I'll do it Friday when I drop by my dads. That's where my meter is.


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 8, 2016)

Its not a buck/boost. If it is is a buck with a very low over head voltage. I tested current and output in 3 setups just now. I did the output testing with the head off to avoid any discrepancies between the tests because of focus position.

On 2 nimh cells
1.02A at the tail
261 lumens

On 1 li-ion 
.724A
241 lumens

On 2 li-ion
.660a
42 <-------Lumens. That's not a typo. Checked it twice. On the 3rd test it ed.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 9, 2016)

vestureofblood said:


> Its not a buck/boost. If it is is a buck with a very low over head voltage. I tested current and output in 3 setups just now. I did the output testing with the head off to avoid any discrepancies between the tests because of focus position.
> 
> On 2 nimh cells
> 1.02A at the tail
> ...



Were you wearing your "I void warranties" hat during the tests?

Any idea why 42 on test 3? Maybe tests 1&2 had begun the meltdown?


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 9, 2016)

I think because the extra voltage was SUPER heating a component or components rendering them useless. I dont think the single li-ion test was pre-killing it. 

If you were to take a driver such as NANJG 105C (7135 chip based driver) and do the same thing I think you would get a similar result. Using an XML2 with and that type driver built out to say a 4 amp max you would get like 3.5A on 3 nimh cells. On 4 cells you would get the higher output and peg flat out at 4 amps. Add a 5th cell to that and you start going back the other way. The driver gets so hot the current falls like a rock.


----------



## xxo (Mar 9, 2016)

vestureofblood said:


> Its not a buck/boost. If it is is a buck with a very low over head voltage. I tested current and output in 3 setups just now. I did the output testing with the head off to avoid any discrepancies between the tests because of focus position.
> 
> On 2 nimh cells
> 1.02A at the tail
> ...


 
Did you find a driver in there?

I saw that the ML25's are about the only LEDs in the Mag catalog not listed as having “power management” (Mag speak for regulation??).


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 9, 2016)

I have not taken the pill totally apart yet. I'm sure inside that housing is a pill identical to the minimag pill ( its also this way in the big D mags if you take the switch apart). 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say there must be some kind of component in there even if it differs from the others. Otherwise the LED would barely light up at all on 2 cells, and would rage at 500+ lumens when I powered it up on a single li-ion


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 9, 2016)

Good stuff



Edit:
The TL 3 bulbs arrived. Disappointing to say the least. Pins are really short so if the filament survived a drop the bulb would likely pop out of the holder.
Although the output was brighter than the 2C will alkalines and a 2 cell bulb it wasn't by much even with 2 LifePo4 18500's. Think I'll stick with MagStar bulbs for now. The TL3 bulb is nowhere near as bright with those cells as the 4 cell MagStar. Maybe other chemistry will produce better results, but Ima stickwith the LifePo's. 

A couple of 5 cell and 6 cell MagStar bulbs will be purchased and tried out.


----------



## xxo (Mar 10, 2016)

Thanks much.

How does the heat sink look?

Is the pill surrounded by plastic or is there metal to sink heat into the aluminum tube?


----------



## CLHC (Mar 11, 2016)

I picked up one last night in haste.





Not bad for eighteen dollars and change.


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 11, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> A couple of 5 cell and 6 cell MagStar bulbs will be purchased and tried out.



Great set up. So glad to see others still see the value in a quality incan light. Years ago when the magnum star were still potted bulbs I tried the 5 and 6 cells. IMO the 6 was actually better. The 5 cell did work, but it turned the bulb blackish on the inside after only a few uses there by reducing the output. Maybe it was a fluke IDK..


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 11, 2016)

^^ ordered a 3 cell incan version with plan of 2 18650's in a spacer tube and some 5/6 cell bulbs.
Ima do some battery shopping later today with plan on obtaining a pair of LifePo4 in 18650. 
Something that won't throw a lot of amps to my MagStars all at once.

It should be complete about this time next week.

Edit:
I bought a pair of Nuon 1 amp 18650's at batteries plus and confirmed they fit in the 3 cell version of this light. A tailcap spring stretch yielded better results using these unprotected cells.





I was considering driving out the LED and popping in the pill from a 2 cell model and use a TL 3 bulb.... .but figure I'd rather just wait a few more days. 

The side by side beam check showed the LED model with 18650's was not any brighter than with 3 Rayovacs. Leads me to think some regulation exists in the 3 cell LED model too.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 11, 2016)

vestureofblood said:


> Its not a buck/boost. If it is is a buck with a very low over head voltage. I tested current and output in 3 setups just now. I did the output testing with the head off to avoid any discrepancies between the tests because of focus position.
> 
> On 2 nimh cells
> 1.02A at the tail
> ...



I killed mine with LifePo's today.
Eh, now I have one to take apart.

Anyway I checked the 3 Cell with 3 Rayovacs the other day and today with a pair of 18650's and got virtually the same reading.








^^ with a pair of 1amp rechargeables




^^ with 3 Rayovacs.

The I stabbed an incan with 2 LifePo's









All was going well until I tried the 18500's on my favorite LED one. 
I heard a sizzling sound, the guage went to 0.226 and things went dark. 

It held up for a few seconds anyway. A trip to Wally World yielded another pewter and (now) a blue one.


----------



## scout24 (Mar 11, 2016)

You're a madman... :nana:


----------



## Burgess (Mar 11, 2016)

Tell me --

Does the incand. version use a PR- base bulb ? ? ?

Thank you.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 11, 2016)

Burgess, I couldn't tell you because simply put...
I don't know what a PR base bulb is.

But a 2 pin MagStar 2 C/D is what it arrives with.

It installs like a MiniMag or Solitaire.

Scout, I was sitting at the dinner table watching my wife apply a glow in the dark powder mixed with clear acrylic coating onto flower pedals she'd made from plastic milk jugs to be home made flower pedal bezels for solar lamps.... just hap-hazardly poking the meter probes to the 6.4+/- volt fed 2 cell LT when zzzzt...tssts..zzzt, nothing. 
She says "this coating is too thick, I need to go to Wal Mart for something thinner". I retorted "funny you should say that ''cause I just murdered my pewter 2 cell I bought there"...she says "not the pewter one, let's go now". lol


----------



## ZMZ67 (Mar 11, 2016)

Burgess said:


> Tell me --
> 
> Does the incand. version use a PR- base bulb ? ? ?
> 
> Thank you.



No it uses the bi-pin style bulb that Mag is putting in all the new C and D incans. PR base bulbs and LED drop-ins are a no-go.


----------



## StarHalo (Mar 12, 2016)

Burgess said:


> Does the incand. version use a PR- base bulb ? ? ?



Mag did away with those long ago. What would you drop-in to a 2C?


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 12, 2016)

Model LT emitter disassemble. 
Pictures are after I had learned 'this aint the way'.
This is my first one so parden incorrect terms and what not.

Here goes;
As vesture stated before the assembly is removed by hammering towards the tail cap.
I used a 19mm deep well socket as a collar and an ordinary claw hammer to give it a few good whacks and viola! 




^^ the lip stops you from going too far in a re-install.




^^ you get this.
The top portion is fastened to the bottom portion similar to a mini mag switch only larger. The middle portion slides up n down to complete or interupt the circuit. 

To get the top and bottom apart a flat blade screwdriver inserted in between an twisted starts them coming apart.




^^ you end up with this.




^^ this dude is the pill in a pill. 
It's fastened to the 'collar' similar to the way the assembly was fastened to the body... with an added feature.




^^ 2 little add on ears.
It appears that once the pill is pressed into the collar they added a dab of epoxy to each side. I ground it off with a cutting disk.




^^ pill and collar separated.
I set the collar on the open jaws of vice grips and used an 8mm socket to drive the pill out. Once it is started the pill goes past the collar base. So the collar has to be elevated, yet leaving a hole in the center. 




^^ elevated
Once that was done I put the pill case in the jaws and suspended it over a table edge using a 5mm socket to drive it out as well.




^^ before




^^ after

You end up with a propietary pill with an emmitter chip fastened to it.




^^ separated




^^ this is as far as I care to go.
Somebody smarter than I can say what's what any farther.

A recap;




^^ the pill in a pill in a collar.

All in all I never did see why my light quit working. Nothing looked 'burnt'.


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 12, 2016)

Nice job byk,

Looks like its mostly still in tact. Can say the same thing about mine lol. IIRC that last part of the pill should separate the way you describe, dropping the plastic part out of the metal housing. Its been a few years since I had one apart though. The MCPCB in them is custom with the electrical contacts on the bottom I believe.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 12, 2016)

^^ Thank you sir.
Your original input was what allowed me to spot how Mag had done things. 
It was an attempt to see if anyone could spot anything that causes regulation to occur. 
'Cause unless the words "Acme regulator" were printed somewhere I wouldn't know.


----------



## AVService (Mar 12, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> ^^ Thank you sir.
> Your original input was what allowed me to spot how Mag had done things.
> It was an attempt to see if anyone could spot anything that causes regulation to occur.
> 'Cause unless the words "Acme regulator" were printed somewhere I wouldn't know.


Is there anything inside that blob of black stuff or is it a sealed blob?

I imagine this is where electronics would be hiding potted inside there?

Nice destruction thanks for taking one for the team!


----------



## Phaserburn (Mar 12, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Good stuff
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The TL-3 bulb needs two std liion cells to be properly driven. Your setup of two lifepo4 cells is significantly under driving the bulb because the combined voltage is around 1.2v less.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 12, 2016)

Phaserburn said:


> The TL-3 bulb needs two std liion cells to be properly driven. Your setup of two lifepo4 cells is significantly under driving the bulb because the combined voltage is around 1.2v less.



I have a 3 C cell host on the way. And a pair of 1 amp 18650's with a spacer awaiting it's arrival.


In an attempt to clean up the Mag ugliness I tried two approaches, both which work fairly well while hardly effecting the throw.
First was a homemade orange peel...




^^ mist of clear coat applied.
From 2-3' away you spray in short bursts towards the reflector some 10-15 times. 

The other was an Acrylite lens from flashlight lens.com. It is a slightly diffused lens that allows 97% light transmission. 




^^ left is Acrylite, right is UCL hardcoat AR
I showed the right one with still stock reflector to show how amazingly clear the Anti-refective lens with scratch resistant coating applied is. 




^^ diffused lens vs duffused reflector. 
The Acrylite allows the artifacts to be better disipated without affecting light output as much as the orange peel reflector which does not clean up the beam quite as much. 
But both work pretty well.


----------



## ZMZ67 (Mar 13, 2016)

Lots of insight from your experiments bykfixer.Thanks for posting all the information !


----------



## ZMZ67 (Mar 13, 2016)

StarHalo said:


> Mag did away with those long ago. What would you drop-in to a 2C?



If the light was able to use PR base drop-ins there are some LED replacements that might work better for a longer running emergency/power outage light than Mag's LED version. You can do this with the older 2Cs but I like the small profile of this 2C.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 13, 2016)

ZMZ67 said:


> If the light was able to use PR base drop-ins there are some LED replacements that might work better for a longer running emergency/power outage light than Mag's LED version. You can do this with the older 2Cs but I like the small profile of this 2C.



In a pinch the Nite Ize and TerraLUX mini mag drop ins work with no mods if you don't mind using the tail cap as your on/off.


----------



## ZMZ67 (Mar 13, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> In a pinch the Nite Ize and TerraLUX mini mag drop ins work with no mods if you don't mind using the tail cap as your on/off.



I tried a TerraLUX Mini Mag drop in but it doesn't fit well and I would like to have the bezel on/off. Unfortunately I doubt we will see any drop-ins for the C/D bi-pin Mags.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 14, 2016)

The ML25 seems to be marketed to the LED crowd in big box stores, yet there is an incan version being made. Why? At this point who knows.

One has to search around the internet for the incan version and being you get about 25% of the brightness for a whopping $2 less....
It's a new model, so it aint like there are 3.2 million out there that folks want to upgrade theirs.
I do agree it's not likely a consumer type upgrade will be available any time soon, if ever...

But if one finds themself lightless (as in out of working bulbs) and have a 2 pin mini mag drop in available that is an option for the time being. Unlikely scenario as that sounds it is an option. And with a bit of dremel work it appears to me that one could make the on/off bezel switch operational.

I wondered why Mag even produced an incan version for about oh, 3.7 seconds then turned my thoughts to making it nearly as bright as the LED version with decent bulb life.


----------



## ZMZ67 (Mar 14, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> The ML25 seems to be marketed to the LED crowd in big box stores, where there is an incan version being made.
> One has to search around for the incan version and being you get about 25% of the brightness for a whopping $2 less....
> It's a new model, so it aint like there are 3.2 million out there that folks want to upgrade theirs.



I doubt that LED drop-in makers would make any profit from such a product as the number of bi-pin C/D lights has to be pretty low. I am a little surprised Mag even bothered making the ML25IT. They must still have or at least perceive a market for incans. I am sure they are not being produced for those of us on CPF who want them essentially for mods.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 14, 2016)

ZMZ67 said:


> I am a little surprised Mag even bothered making the ML25IT. They must still have or at least perceive a market for incans. I am sure they are not being produced for those of us on CPF who want them essentially for mods.



I considered that. Or FiveMega and Vesture of Blood sit on the Mag board of directors....
Yet they are listed in the 016 catalog. 

Regardless of why, I'm stoked about Mag sticking to their roots with a new model. 
Many disagree, but I've seen incan mini mag slots empty, then full then empty again at various Wal Marts often enough to think it is apparently still a relevent flashlight in the market place.


----------



## Burgess (Mar 15, 2016)

Great Thread Here !

lovecpf



Thank you, everyone, for answering my question
about PR-based bulb use in these.

Haven't been following the Big (non Mini-Mag) 
flashlights from Mag anymore, so was un-aware
they had gravitated to Bi-Pin bulbs.


If it * WAS * possible,
then I was gonna' buy one of these,
and install one of my many PR-2 bulbs,
which I stockpiled a couple decades ago.


Wanted to make it into a Modern version
of a classic " 2 D-cell " flashlight, which were
the "standard" of my youth ( and beyond ).
Yet, in a more compact (2xC) package !

Being that today's Duracell Quantum Alkaline
C-cells are far superior to the silver Eveready
carbon-zinc D cells of the past. 

Flashlight Nostalgia is a very 
Powerful influence with me !

Thought it would've been FUN !


:thumbsup:
_


----------



## chmsam (Mar 15, 2016)

I got a 3C ML50L and I'm looking for traffic wands that will fit it. The website lists the diameter as 1.977" (55.22 mm). That means the Maglite wands for C/D lights won't fit. Anyone know of ones that will? 

Thanks.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 15, 2016)

I'm using Streamlight Stinger anti roll rings on the tips of some of these. The OD of the Mag is pretty close to the Stinger. The Mag is ever so slightly larger....like a quarter milimeter.


----------



## chmsam (Mar 16, 2016)

Thank you. I thought the Streamlight wands might fit but wasn't certain. The specs seem to have them differing by a little more than 0.2" (5mm) or so. I'll check those out.


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 16, 2016)

chmsam said:


> Thank you. I thought the Streamlight wands might fit but wasn't certain. The specs seem to have them differing by a little more than 0.2" (5mm) or so. I'll check those out.



Holding the face of the ML25 to the face of a Stinger LED there is way less than 5mm difference. It's more like a half mm.

Stinger head OD is according to Streamlight 1.62"


----------



## ZMZ67 (Mar 16, 2016)

Burgess said:


> Great Thread Here !
> 
> lovecpf
> 
> ...



Nostalgia is part of the appeal of the ML25 for me as well. Though not as prevalent as the ubiquitous 2D incans there were also some 2C incans that always seemed to have a great form factor. The ML25 is very close to the size of those old 2C incans. Even though it lacks a body switch,add a little lubrication to the threads and it is easy to operate with one hand. The output from the stock bulb of ML25IT doesn't suite me but I am going to try a LEE filter on the ML25LT LED model to "warm" up the beam and get the best of both worlds.


----------



## xxo (Mar 16, 2016)

The ML50's head diameter is much bigger than the ML25......I don't think that the same wands would fit both?


----------



## chmsam (Mar 17, 2016)

That's correct. The ML25LT head is 1.7" (43.18mm) whereas the ML50L head is 1.977" (50.22mm).

Good catch.


----------



## xxo (Mar 19, 2016)

I did a quick run time test on both a 2C and 3C ML25 LEDs, using 2000mAh AA Eneloops in homemade spacers - got about 1 hr 40 min. of regulated run from the 2C before it faded quickly, the 3C was around 3 1/2 hrs as best as I could tell with a much slower drop off in output (I guess the 3rd cell allows a period of direct drive). These lights are definitely regulated and do not step down like most other Mag LEDs. I think the lack of a step down is the reason for the short run times. while I haven't tested alkaline C cells I would guess that the 3C would spend much of its 18 hr ANSI run a closer to the 10% limit than 100%, though you do get more than double the regulated/full power run time of the 2C.


----------



## AVService (Mar 19, 2016)

xxo said:


> I did a quick run time test on both a 2C and 3C ML25 LEDs, using 2000mAh AA Eneloops in homemade spacers - got about 1 hr 40 min. of regulated run from the 2C before it faded quickly, the 3C was around 3 1/2 hrs as best as I could tell with a much slower drop off in output (I guess the 3rd cell allows a period of direct drive). These lights are definitely regulated and do not step down like most other Mag LEDs. I think the lack of a step down is the reason for the short run times. while I haven't tested alkaline C cells I would guess that the 3C would spend much of its 18 hr ANSI run a closer to the 10% limit than 100%, though you do get more than double the regulated/full power run time of the 2C.


Thanks,still seems a little crazy short runtimes considering other lights with much smaller batteries?

I finally snagged a 3C version and it looks a lot more like a huge Mini Mag than the 2C does and while rated at 18hrs I have to wonder how long actual usable light is produced for sure?
I just don't have 18 hours to try to find out!


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 19, 2016)

xxo said:


> I did a quick run time test on both a 2C and 3C ML25 LEDs, using 2000mAh AA Eneloops in homemade spacers - got about 1 hr 40 min. of regulated run from the 2C before it faded quickly, the 3C was around 3 1/2 hrs as best as I could tell with a much slower drop off in output (I guess the 3rd cell allows a period of direct drive). These lights are definitely regulated and do not step down like most other Mag LEDs. I think the lack of a step down is the reason for the short run times. while I haven't tested alkaline C cells I would guess that the 3C would spend much of its 18 hr ANSI run a closer to the 10% limit than 100%, though you do get more than double the regulated/full power run time of the 2C.



I've been using eneloops for a couple weeks now in a 2C. Probably 3 hours of off/on usage with maybe 30 minute peaks. 
I went on and topped 'em up this morning. The charger showed they were down to about 25% but the light was still plenty bright.


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 19, 2016)

Ok, so here is what the shorty version would look like.





I only took about 3/4" off the length because I didn't want the body to feel short or stumpy.






The ON position is now with the head tight vs with it loose. I sanded the end of the body to make ground contact with the bulb.


----------



## FroggyTaco (Mar 19, 2016)

Nice upgrade.

Any chance of using a larger reflector to make more use of all that head space?


----------



## bykfixer (Mar 19, 2016)

vestureofblood said:


> Ok, so here is what the shorty version would look like.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All the way tight for on?

Cool!!!!!!!!

When will it be available?


----------



## 1pt21 (Mar 19, 2016)

vestureofblood said:


> Ok, so here is what the shorty version would look like.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice, waiting for the sales thread to pop up :wave:

What batteries are those? I tried to get some 26500's in there, sooo close, but no cigar...


----------



## vestureofblood (Mar 19, 2016)

FroggyTaco said:


> Nice upgrade.
> 
> Any chance of using a larger reflector to make more use of all that head space?





bykfixer said:


> All the way tight for on?
> 
> Cool!!!!!!!!
> 
> When will it be available?



I'm not sure this is going to be a full time product. I just sort of wanted to do it since I had one sitting here  The reason for the reflector I used is because that module is one of my current mag drop that I turned down to size. 



1pt21 said:


> Nice, waiting for the sales thread to pop up :wave:
> 
> What batteries are those? I tried to get some 26500's in there, sooo close, but no cigar...



I had one 26650 I got to just slip in there but it was an old crappy one and it was tight. The one you see in the picture fits because I bored out the body. 

There is no doubt a lot of things that can be done with this host, but there are some costly obstacles for a production run. Making a drop in for it would not be too hard, I just don't like the batter solution being machine work. That leaves either an 18650 conversion kit, or people having to buy special cells. 


Here is a little nugget you guys can take for what it's worth. About 6 years ago I purchased some of DX SKU: 26799 25500 batteries. Believe it or not they are actually very good ( I still use them all the time) and they are the 25mm diameter. *However *they are much longer than regular C. I tore the protection circuit off mine in order to get 3 of them to fit in a 2D mag. Even without that they are still about 0.073" inch (1.87mm) longer than a nimh C cell. I have no idea if they will fit length wise in an un modified body because mine is already cut. Also I take no responsibility if you order those and get crap. The ones I got were all 3 very good, have super low internal resistance and carry a heavy load with no problem. I have even done short burst at like 7 amp ( not recommended this is a li-ion cells as far as I know). The total length of them WITHOUT the protection circuit is 2.044"


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## FroggyTaco (Mar 19, 2016)

How practical would it be to use a TIR lens?

Something like this: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ledil/FCA12104_IRIS/FCA12104_IRIS-ND/3525152


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## vestureofblood (Mar 19, 2016)

It could be done. Getting that one in there might be tricky. The depth of the head is only 15ish mm. If it tapered off quickly enough I suppose a sink could be made that threaded into the lower part of the head?


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## bykfixer (Mar 20, 2016)

vestureofblood said:


> I'm not sure this is going to be a full time product. I just sort of wanted to do it since I had one sitting here  The reason for the reflector I used is because that module is one of my current mag drop that I turned down to size.
> 
> There is no doubt a lot of things that can be done with this host, but there are some costly obstacles for a production run. "



Oops, my bad. Thought you were showing us unit 1 of...


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## vestureofblood (Mar 20, 2016)

It was a reasonable assumption since most of the time that is what I'm dong. I'm not saying I wont ever put a production bulb out for this, I just have so many things going right now I just don't thing its a good idea to take on another product.


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## bykfixer (Mar 20, 2016)

I was thinking "can I get one of those in camo, please?" lol.

My brain has been contemplating a pipe cutter to make a 3 cell version turn it into a 1x18650 (with a pvc pipe space filler) using a stock platform for output. Stubby, I know. But I've always considered owning a 1 cell Mag someday.


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## gurdygurds (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm assuming you're using 1aa eneloop in an adapter? Does it run at full output like this? Is the red version more of a burgundy\maroon color? Thanks bykfixer! Oh by the way Home Depot website shows a 2 pack of the 2c plus the 3c version for 20 bucks. Crazy


bykfixer said:


> I've been using eneloops for a couple weeks now in a 2C. Probably 3 hours of off/on usage with maybe 30 minute peaks.
> I went on and topped 'em up this morning. The charger showed they were down to about 25% but the light was still plenty bright.


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## bykfixer (Jan 10, 2017)

Yes 1 adapter per cell. Eneloop sells adapters in pairs.


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## xxo (Jan 13, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Yes 1 adapter per cell. Eneloop sells adapters in pairs.



I need to find the right pvc pipe or tubing to make some spacers for using Eneloops in my ML25's - right now I am still using some cereal box cardboard rolled up to make tubes! Some of those Eneloop adapters would be nice too.


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## etc (Jan 13, 2017)

The latest-greatest 2xAA MiniMag is nice and very bright for its size,but they really screwed up that the C based Mag twisty. It's like something from 2009. Very dim. A huge disappointment. I picked a few over Black Friday sale for about $12 each and I am not sure they are worth even that much. Maybe and only as gifts to ignorant people.


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## FroggyTaco (Jan 14, 2017)

etc said:


> The latest-greatest 2xAA MiniMag is nice and very bright for its size,but they really screwed up that the C based Mag twisty. It's like something from 2009. Very dim. A huge disappointment. I picked a few over Black Friday sale for about $12 each and I am not sure they are worth even that much. Maybe and only as gifts to ignorant people.



Seems like a mini thrower. Reminds me of a old Malkoff XP-G drop-in so yeah 2009 vintage...


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## bykfixer (Jan 14, 2017)

Glad to see this one pop back up. 
Ironically this light has popped up all over the board in the last day or so.




Says right on the package "this is not the latest greatest, brightest flashlight"

When I bought my first one(s) the serial number had a whole bunch of zeros to the left of the 4 or 5 digits in the serial number. The earliest one I found was an incan version that was #109. 
The ones in stores now have all of those zeros replaced with other numbers. Frankly I'm not surprised. See it isn't always about whopping output with the latest gizmos. And in the case of the ML25 it's what Maglite did with those measley little 173 and 177 lumens that made them big sellers. 
The light became a viable alternative to the much larger D sized lights, which are still popular with the general consumer. The crowd at CPF might yawn at them, but the buying public who just want to light up their living room or shed was scooping them up instead of D sized lights. 

They haven't been out a year yet and according to the serial numbers I saw at my local Home Depot over a million have sold. (Or at least produced). My local HD had about 100 twin packs before Christmas and the other day had 4 remaining. (Lots of Coast and Defiant black friday packaded lights remained)
I would think that makes it a successful product in the grand scheme of things. Especially in this day and age of Maglite facing dozens of competitors selling more modern outputs for less money. 

To me, I feel confident those 177 lumen'd lights with 18 hour runtimes will still work in 25 years. So spending $18 on one is certainly not a gamble versus those brand X lights on the wall nearby.


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## xxo (Jan 14, 2017)

Not the latest or greatest output, but for someone who has a old krypton bulb 2 or 3 D cell Mag the LED ML25's are light cannons! In fact they are probably a bit too bright for a single mode light for most applications. But for outdoor use where the throw comes into play, these are great, easily out throwing most other lights comparable in size, lumen output and price. I think Mag was wise to keep these in the same price range of the old incan C and D cell lights for the general public who might not spend more than $25 on a LED light no matter what. For those who are willing to spend a little more and want more features (and lumens!) there is always the ML50 or ML300 series.


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## Mercyfulfate1777 (Jan 14, 2017)

lots of good reading in here! Im really liking my 3 C cell gray ml25lt for sure. But i would be scared to death to look inside,lol


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## etc (Jan 16, 2017)

It's worth $12-15 and makes a fabulous gift. I am not sure I would pay over $20 for it. The market is flooded with cheap lights that outperform at at that price point and the same quality point.


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## parnass (Jan 16, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> ... To me, I feel confident those 177 lumen'd lights with 18 hour runtimes will still work in 25 years. ....



The sad truth is that most consumers will leave alkaline batteries inside their Maglite until they leak and ruin the flashlight much sooner than 25 years.


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## tuelleric (Jan 29, 2017)

Has anyone tried to screw an old head (52mm) on the new tube? Are the threads compatible? That would offer some more nice modding options, if it fits.

Thanks!


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## bykfixer (Jan 29, 2017)

tuelleric said:


> Has anyone tried to screw an old head (52mm) on the new tube? Are the threads compatible? That would offer some more nice modding options, if it fits.
> 
> Thanks!



The threads differ enough that it isn't an option.


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## tuelleric (Jan 29, 2017)

Thanks for the quick reply. I wonder why every Maglite model has its own thread size. There could have been some nice Mag-Lego, if not...


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## bykfixer (Jan 29, 2017)

The reasoning behind the whole ML25 series was a mystery... especially that there were 2 models of incandecent made. 

I like 'em a lot, but in todays market of smaller, brighter flashlights they were an odd idea. Upsizing a mini mag to the "C" sized platform and they aren't even as bright (lumen-wise) as a mini mag... well that seemed to be going backwards. 
But they seem to be selling. I speculate Mag was targeting their D sized light fan base.


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## xxo (Jan 29, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> The reasoning behind the whole ML25 series was a mystery... especially that there were 2 models of incandecent made.
> 
> I like 'em a lot, but in todays market of smaller, brighter flashlights they were an odd idea. Upsizing a mini mag to the "C" sized platform and they aren't even as bright (lumen-wise) as a mini mag... well that seemed to be going backwards.
> But they seem to be selling. I speculate Mag was targeting their D sized light fan base.




I think the a lot of people like the C cell form factor and the throw of the ML25 LED's. If you shine a ML25 LED and a 100 higher lumen Mini Mag Pro on a wall, some people would probably say the ML25 was brighter due to it's much more intense hot spot. but yeah, the incans are a mystery, seems like Mag came out with them 25 years too late.


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## gurdygurds (Jan 29, 2017)

Or MAYBE...Mag is completely genius and we're too simple minded to understand just how amazing and revolutionary the incan ML25s are! And when I say "we're" I'm not including myself because I think they're badass.


xxo said:


> I think the a lot of people like the C cell form factor and the throw of the ML25 LED's. If you shine a ML25 LED and a 100 higher lumen Mini Mag Pro on a wall, some people would probably say the ML25 was brighter due to it's much more intense hot spot. but yeah, the incans are a mystery, seems like Mag came out with them 25 years too late.


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## xxo (Jan 31, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> Or MAYBE...Mag is completely genius and we're too simple minded to understand just how amazing and revolutionary the incan ML25s are! And when I say "we're" I'm not including myself because I think they're badass.




There must still be a market for incans.....not sure how long it will last since it seems just about everyone is going for LEDs. I can't help thinking that the incan ML25's would have sold like crazy back in the late 80's and 90's, but considering that the LED versions are only a couple $ more at most, I can't see Mag selling very many of the incan versions compared to the LEDs versions now.


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## tuelleric (Jan 31, 2017)

Here in Germany, both incans and LEDs retail for ~30 Euro (32 USD). For what you get this is crazy, I think.


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## maglite mike (Jan 31, 2017)

tuelleric said:


> Here in Germany, both incans and LEDs retail for ~30 Euro (32 USD). For what you get this is crazy, I think.



In the USA home depot is running a special for the 2 cell and 3 cell maglite ml25LT combo pack including batteries for only $20. At $10 per light with batteries inc that's a steal.


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## light-modder (Feb 1, 2017)

Are batteries included with that package? That is a steal I really wish there was a Home Depot closer to me.
Oh and tuelleric any idea how much shipping is from the states to Germany?


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## tuelleric (Feb 1, 2017)

Shipping would be 7,50 $ plus 3 $ for tracking. This would make around 75 $ for the package you get at Home Depot. Shall I order them for you? :laughing:


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## etc (Feb 1, 2017)

Costco has a similar deal for two 2C lights, not sure if any better or not.

FWIW


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## maglite mike (Feb 1, 2017)

Yep batteries included. 5 c cells total


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## maglite mike (Feb 1, 2017)

etc said:


> Costco has a similar deal for two 2C lights, not sure if any better or not.
> Costco sells a lot of cheap Chinese lights.


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## maglite mike (Feb 1, 2017)

maglite mike said:


> etc said:
> 
> 
> > Costco has a similar deal for two 2C lights, not sure if any better or not.
> ...


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## light-modder (Feb 1, 2017)

Tuelleric I was thinking shipping them to you from here. If shipping is the same cost from here to there it would be $30.50. That would still be less than buying each of the lights separately here.


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## etc (Feb 1, 2017)

Just to be perfectly clear, $12 each is not an every day deal at Home Depot or other big box stores. If you got that impression, it's the wrong impression. For me, it was a once per year event on Black Friday. It does *not* sell for that low every day. Whatever sale *your* local HD has, do understand, it does not extend to the rest of the country. Same goes for Walmart or Target. They are highly local. 

I don't know the regular price but 2C+3C plus 5 cells for about $25 is not the regular deal, more likely you get a single light for $25.

Or wait until next BF.


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## maglite mike (Feb 2, 2017)

etc said:


> Just to be perfectly clear, $12 each is not an every day deal at Home Depot or other big box stores. If you got that impression, it's the wrong impression. For me, it was a once per year event on Black Friday. It does *not* sell for that low every day. Whatever sale *your* local HD has, do understand, it does not extend to the rest of the country. Same goes for Walmart or Target. They are highly local.
> 
> I don't know the regular price but 2C+3C plus 5 cells for about $25 is not the regular deal, more likely you get a single light for $25.
> 
> Or wait until next BF.


 I must have gotten lucky. I ordered online about a week ago and the deal applied. I found out about it on another thread on this forum.


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## tuelleric (Feb 2, 2017)

light-modder said:


> Tuelleric I was thinking shipping them to you from here. If shipping is the same cost from here to there it would be $30.50. That would still be less than buying each of the lights separately here.



Oh, I realize that it was a stupid post from me. Must have been very tired yesterday...

Well, as far as I understand the USPS rates, it would be 13.50 $ *from* the US *to* Germany. So if anyone can get the bundle for 20-25 $ and is willing to send it to me, let me know  I would give you the 5 cells for your effort!


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## light-modder (Feb 2, 2017)

Okay, I wasn't sure that's my bad.

etc - I do realize each store has its own sales that's why I looked online. Without specifying a location, which should show local sales, the package shows up at $20. And of course if you look at the related items list it shows the 3 cell light by itself for I think $23 and some change.

Because there is such a big difference in price between the package at HD and the individual lights in Germany I wondered if it was possible to ship them and still be cheaper than buying them over there.

I know my local Walmart has the 2 cell for roughly $19. No batteries included.


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## maglite mike (Feb 2, 2017)

light-modder said:


> Okay, I wasn't sure that's my bad.
> 
> etc - I do realize each store has its own sales that's why I looked online. Without specifying a location, which should show local sales, the package shows up at $20. And of course if you look at the related items list it shows the 3 cell light by itself for I think $23 and some change.
> 
> ...


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Maglite-...gclid=CLnpgu6_8tECFcWNswodb38KXw&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## etc (Feb 2, 2017)

This is an online-only deal.

"This product isn't currently sold in stores."

So you have to figure in shipping into the equation. I am bit disappointed since they pushed this hard on Black Friday, I got about 3 sets but turns out it wasn't a special deal at all. 
Minus shipping, it's basically the same price as on Black Friday.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 2, 2017)

So much fun here. Incan stuff and LED stuff together, loving it.

Bill


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## light-modder (Feb 3, 2017)

It is kind of a special deal as they are $24.88 now. This is still an excellent price though. The shipping is the part of the reason I hadn't ordered any yet. They do have free shipping, to your house even, for orders over $45. I didn't have $60 to spend. Now two at roughly $50 should qualify.

Still a pretty good deal IMO. My three year old daughter likes hers. And it's big enough she can't easily lose it


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## xxo (Feb 3, 2017)

light-modder said:


> It is kind of a special deal as they are $24.88 now. This is still an excellent price though. The shipping is the part of the reason I hadn't ordered any yet. They do have free shipping, to your house even, for orders over $45. I didn't have $60 to spend. Now two at roughly $50 should qualify.
> 
> Still a pretty good deal IMO. My three year old daughter likes hers. And it's big enough she can't easily lose it




I the $24.88 was the black Friday price, some stores cleared out any left overs for $20 after new years; these are all gone now for the most part. The on-line deal is a good one, you are basically getting 2 lights for the price of 1 + batteries.


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## tuelleric (Feb 3, 2017)

If you'd buy two to get it shipped for free, I'd take the second bundle w/o batteries 

I'd be very happy!


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## SG688 (Feb 4, 2017)

Local Wal-Mart is clearancing the Christmas special two-pack with a 2C ML25 and a 1AA LED Solitaire for $15. 1 AA battery included, but no C batteries.

There must surely be others out there with a similar deal.


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## etc (Feb 5, 2017)

light-modder said:


> It is kind of a special deal as they are $24.88 now. This is still an excellent price though. The shipping is the part of the reason I hadn't ordered any yet. They do have free shipping, to your house even, for orders over $45. I didn't have $60 to spend. Now two at roughly $50 should qualify.
> 
> Still a pretty good deal IMO. My three year old daughter likes hers. And it's big enough she can't easily lose it



I spent $75. got 3 sets, each was 24.88 or so. Screw black friday. There nothing special there you cannot get any other random day.


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## bykfixer (Feb 5, 2017)

SG688 said:


> Local Wal-Mart is clearancing the Christmas special two-pack with a 2C ML25 and a 1AA LED Solitaire for $15. 1 AA battery included, but no C batteries.
> 
> There must surely be others out there with a similar deal.



My local Wal Mart had those in all the basic colors but by New Years day had sold out. I went there looking for a Buck knife set thinking wth I'll get one but there were none to be found.


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## etc (Feb 5, 2017)

It's not that good a deal, you can pretty much buy these all day every day at that price.


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## light-modder (Feb 6, 2017)

Yes the normal price is $24.88 so it's not super special anymore. However, I wonder how long they will have these packages. I don't remember the exact price of the 3 cell but your only paying around a dollar for the 2 cell light when you buy the package. Over all the package is a great deal. I know Sam's club had a 2 c and 2 aa mini years ago but the last I heard they no longer carry that one. As long as this new package is available it is the best deal for these new maglites.


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## bykfixer (Feb 6, 2017)

I paid $23 for a 3 cell at Home Depot. That was back when they first showed up in stores. 
And iirc I had to buy the batteries too. :sigh:


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 6, 2017)

Got my two pack today shipped from Home Depot, and they came with five batteries. Beautiful reflectors, and I can believe their 20,000 + lux numbers. My DMM showed 1.1+ amps draw at tail for 2C, and 600+ mA's for 3C. I ordered some C to AA adapters, and will check numbers with Eneloop's, and use my light meter for runtime with both C's and AA's. No rechargeable C's for now.

Bill


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## bykfixer (Feb 7, 2017)

I bought some rechargeable C size Bill, and eneloops with adapters for a pair of 2 cell. 
The C size filled one sets off to the side for power outage times and the eneloop filled one is a user. The Powerex filled one feels like a smooth stick of concrete where the eneloop filled one feels like I forgot to load it with fuel. 
Makes jacket pocket carry way more comfortable.

And yes they shine way brighter than the lumens cited.

Glad to see folks are still discovering these little under rated winners.


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## tuelleric (Feb 8, 2017)

Thanks to pc_light a Maglite ML25 bundle is the way to me! I really love the great community and its support here at CPF!


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## etc (Feb 9, 2017)

How come pray tell they appear to be less bright than the latest generation of Minimags 2xAA? the latter seems like a real winner. 
Is it the spill, the flood, the throw combination? C Mags seem to be all about throw.


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## tuelleric (Feb 13, 2017)

The two Maglites arrived today. Thanks to pc_light once again, I really appreciate your effort to help others out with their hobbies!

Well, the Maglites have a beautiful shape, but this is almost all positive I can report so far. It is really funny how low the performance is. When fokused you get a pinhead sized dim spot, no spill at all. In candle mode the LED is much dimmer than the LED of my phone. [edit] I messed up with my power supply and got tthe wrong settings. It is not as dim as I thought. [/edit] I absolutely do not know what the engineers at Maglite had in mind when they designed these lights (and the incan versions, too).

Ok, that was actually clear before, so lets come to the interesting aspects. The ML25** has an outer tube diameter of ~30 mm, the old C-cell Maglites ~ 32 mm. As bykfixer already pointed out, neither the threads of the head nor of the tailcap are compatible to the old Maglites. The head threads have several entries (do you say so?), like the Minimag. This makes sence as screwing on the head from candle mode is much easier that way. But as soon as you loosen the head a bit, you have a very unpleasing wobble and no more tense in the threads at all. Feels quite cheap, actually.

So no C-cell Maglite lego, no easy head swaps. What can you do then? vestureofblood already showed a nice mod, but he used a small reflector and shortened tho body to fit one 26650. If you want to keep the stock appearance, the only positive thing, it might become a little bit expensive. The lens diameter is 40 mm and the first 15 mm of the head have an inner diameter of 37.7 mm. I did not find a lens or a suitable reflector at the common China shops.

But you have some quality options, I'd say. There is a 40 mm UCL at flashlightlens.com and the McR-38 reflector (available at customlites.com) should fit. Using two 25500 Li-Ion batteries with a Cree XHP50 should make a light similar to the Malkoff Hound Dog. Or you can make it similar to the Malkoff Wildcat V5, with a MT-G2 emitter and this Ledil reflector. The Ledil Iris optic might also fit and can be used with many different emitters (also XHP70), but you loose a bit of the stock appearance then.

No idea what to do with the 3-cell ML25**, though. I do not see any useful battery configuration here... [edit] Okay, 2x 20700/21700 would be an option. [/edit]


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## etc (Feb 13, 2017)

I really like the twist action versus stupid rubber button that disintegrates with age.


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## Mercyfulfate1777 (Feb 13, 2017)

I bought 2 of the 2C sets that came with the Solitaires and bought a 3C as well and they are for sure awesome! and all of them look like they have the Cree LEDs (as compared to my Cree LED lights)


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 13, 2017)

tuelleric said:


> It is really funny how low the performance is. When fokused you get a pinhead sized dim spot, no spill at all..........



I have the 2C and 3C and do not notice a dim hot spot in either of them; the lux is at least in the 20,000+ range. Also, do not notice any significient wiggle when I rotate the head. I did notice some grating of the threads, so applied some grease to the threads which ended that issue. Running C cell to AA nimh's adapters.

Bill


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## bykfixer (Feb 13, 2017)

I use an acrylite lens from flashlight lens dot com to smooth out the beam. But one can lightly scuff the factory reflector for the same affect (or is it effect?... I always get them mixed up.) 

The ultraclear waterglass from FLL does allow more light through, but it also allows the parts we don't like about it to become more noticeable.




Left is the acrylite




This reflector from Kaidomain looked promising.
I never got around to buying and trying it though.

And over at the incan section in the mag twisty thread a fellow in Ireland used an older Stinger reflector...I think there was a TL3 option mentioned as well.


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## pc_light (Feb 13, 2017)

Hi Tuelleric:

Sorry to hear that they don't measure up, could be the reason they're on sale for $10 a piece now. I didn't get to try the ones I sent since I wanted to be sure you received them new in packaging.

You may want to confirm that your's are drawing 1A & 0.6A as reported by Bullzeyebill, at that current most crees should be pretty bright. If not they could be defective. You may also want to try different batteries just to be sure.

pc_light


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## light-modder (Feb 13, 2017)

I have been waiting to make a light engine on a friends lathe, with his help, to retain the current twist action (tight off, loose for on). I was going to start with an xpl most likely and do an xhp50 after that. Hopefully it works out.

I have been excited for the new 20/21700 battery because of the ability to use them in the 3 cell lights.


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## maglite mike (Feb 13, 2017)

AVService said:


> Well these were sitting at the Walmart I went to this morning and …..well….. you know.
> 
> So The 2 cell is sort of like a giant MiniMag in a sense but I just don't understand 2 things.
> Why just one mode and only 177lm and how could they even get just 2hrs runtime unless they were trying to get the worst time possible?
> ...


 you comparing the ml 50 3 cell to the ml25 lt 2 cell. These are different lights. The 3 cell ml 25 is 18 he run time. Also the ml25 lt is direct drive where as the ml 50 is not.


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## tuelleric (Feb 14, 2017)

Bullzeyebill said:


> I have the 2C and 3C and do not notice a dim hot spot in either of them; the lux is at least in the 20,000+ range. Also, do not notice any significient wiggle when I rotate the head. I did notice some grating of the threads, so applied some grease to the threads which ended that issue. Running C cell to AA nimh's adapters.
> 
> Bill





pc_light said:


> Hi Tuelleric:
> 
> Sorry to hear that they don't measure up, could be the reason they're on sale for $10 a piece now. I didn't get to try the ones I sent since I wanted to be sure you received them new in packaging.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I really messed up with the settings of my power supply yesterday. It is not as dim as I described it, everything is okay with the lights. The 2-cell Mag draws exactly 1 A at 3 V. Still no comparision to other lights with > 3 W power, for sure.



maglite mike said:


> you comparing the ml 50 3 cell to the ml25 lt 2 cell. These are different lights. The 3 cell ml 25 is 18 he run time. Also the ml25 lt is direct drive where as the ml 50 is not.



The ML25Lt is regulated, faily well even, I have to admit. The 2-cell begins loosing some brightness at 2.2 V drawing 1.25 A. Down to 1.7 V the current still increases to 1.44 A, then it falls out of regulation.


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## tuelleric (Feb 14, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> I use an acrylite lens from flashlight lens dot com to smooth out the beam. But one can lightly scuff the factory reflector for the same affect (or is it effect?... I always get them mixed up.)
> 
> The ultraclear waterglass from FLL does allow more light through, but it also allows the parts we don't like about it to become more noticeable.
> 
> This reflector from Kaidomain looked promising. I never got around to buying and trying it though.



I think if you use a orange peel reflector, you can go with a clear lens and still get a nice beam. There are also some 37 mm, 36.6 mm and 36 mm reflectors available at kaidomain. They will probably work, but you need to put some thought on centering them in the head.



light-modder said:


> I have been waiting to make a light engine on a friends lathe, with his help, to retain the current twist action (tight off, loose for on). I was going to start with an xpl most likely and do an xhp50 after that. Hopefully it works out.
> 
> I have been excited for the new 20/21700 battery because of the ability to use them in the 3 cell lights.



XHP50 really should bring this light to life! 20/21700 batteries also work in the old style 2C-bodies thanks to the deep tailcap.


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## xxo (Feb 14, 2017)

maglite mike said:


> you comparing the ml 50 3 cell to the ml25 lt 2 cell. These are different lights. The 3 cell ml 25 is 18 he run time. Also the ml25 lt is direct drive where as the ml 50 is not.



The ML25 LEDs are regulated, the 2C will run full out for about 2 hrs on alkalines, then die off quickly when the cells no longer have enough power, the 3C will run for roughly 4-5 hrs at full output, followed by a slow death to 10% in direct drive mode. The ML50 is also regulated but has a timed step down over the course of the first hour or so.


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## Swedpat (Feb 21, 2017)

There is a reason I collect original incandescent Maglites. They have a very nice and clean design. And these models look really good too!


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## tuelleric (Feb 22, 2017)

Swedpat said:


> There is a reason I collect original incandescent Maglites. They have a very nice and clean design. And these models look really good too!



Totally agreed! My next mod will be an upgrade for my old style 2C, using an Osram 64275 AX 35W 6V G4 lamp regulated at 6V with 2x 18650. Should be a pretty nice and usable light.

For the new style 3C a Lumens Factory IMR-13 might be a nice upgrade, maybe even plug and play.


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## etc (Feb 22, 2017)

3C model is a much better deal then.


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## Swedpat (Feb 22, 2017)

tuelleric said:


> Totally agreed! My next mod will be an upgrade for my old style 2C, using an Osram 64275 AX 35W 6V G4 lamp regulated at 6V with 2x 18650. Should be a pretty nice and usable light.
> 
> For the new style 3C a Lumens Factory IMR-13 might be a nice upgrade, maybe even plug and play.



Thanks! I have wanted to mod a stock incandescent Maglite to a monster incandescent but have been too lazy with all things it includes with ordering from several different dealers. I wish someone could sell complete package with all items included ready to put in and replace!


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## tuelleric (Feb 22, 2017)

Swedpat said:


> Thanks! I have wanted to mod a stock incandescent Maglite to a monster incandescent but have been too lazy with all things it includes with ordering from several different dealers. I wish someone could sell complete package with all items included ready to put in and replace!



I am still tempted to mod one of my 6C Mags. With either 5x 18650 or 6x 26500 it offers some interesting options.

The only thing that holds me back is that I do not see a real use case for such a light..


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## Offgridled (Feb 22, 2017)

You just have to love moded Maglites 
Great job guys..


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## fivemega (Feb 23, 2017)

Swedpat said:


> I wish someone could sell complete package with all items included ready to put in and replace!



*You just missed this.*


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## Aircraft800 (Mar 14, 2017)

They are also fun to mod! Here is a 25LT I did with an aspheric, tail clicky, 26650 and Cree XHP50


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## tuelleric (Mar 14, 2017)

Wow, that looks cool!


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## Tribull (Mar 14, 2017)

Very cool


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## xxo (Nov 10, 2019)

I found out something new with the 2C LED ML25 recently - it will run on only 1 NiMH cell! Runs pretty good too, nice and bright with about half the run time of 2 cells as you would expect. This might come in handy if you only have one cell (and something to use as a dummy cell) or for moding into a super shorty 1 cell light.


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## bykfixer (Nov 16, 2019)

Aircraft800 said:


> They are also fun to mod! Here is a 25LT I did with an aspheric, tail clicky, 26650 and Cree XHP50



Details, please? 

As in where'd ya get the parts, how did you coat the chrome looking stuff etc……


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