# Surefire Tailcaps



## cmacclel (Dec 9, 2007)

I have probably touched 300+ Magswitches in my days and not had one failure. The 4 Surefires I have owned all of the tailswitches have died!

-E2D Tailswitch lasted a couple months then needed to be replaced *TWICE*

-2x U2's Tailswitch's died within a month of hardly any use

Brand Spanking new 6p Defender I bought yesterday switch was pressed 5 times and is now perma-stuck  Also the upper sealing ring was not seated properly.


Surefire REALLY NEEDS to do something about their switches and QC. They know they are horribe and STILL do nothing about them....what gives.

Mac


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## Illum (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

sometimes its just more reasonable to go back to twisty
I still find myself from time to time engaging my Z57 and locking it out to turn it off....


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

One of our CPF'ers was doing some free fixes on the E series clickies awhile back. He is still around but I can not think of his user name. Once he did the fix, there were no more problems.

Bill


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## ttran97 (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



Bullzeyebill said:


> One of our CPF'ers was doing some free fixes on the E series clickies awhile back. He is still around but I can not think of his user name. Once he did the fix, there were no more problems.
> 
> Bill



I think you're talking about Litfuse...right?


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## z96Cobra (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



Illum_the_nation said:


> sometimes its just more reasonable to go back to twisty
> I still find myself from time to time engaging my Z57 and locking it out to turn it off....




Many other "cheaper", "lower quality" companies can design a nice clicky, but SureFire can't? And because they seem to have so many failures, we should all just start using twisties?? I don't think so, and for me, twisties SUCK! Most of the time I'm operating the light with one hand, and a clicky is easier, for me, than a twistie. We need to get SureFire, Inova, and Mag to all go together to design a really nice light! :nana:

I'm not bashing SureFire, I EDC 2 of them, my U2, and my L4. I haven't had any switch failures yet, but there sure seems to be a lot of them. I also realize that most people only post when they have a problem, so that may skew the post somewhat. I don't recall making any posts about how good my 4 SureFires have been, but if one of them has a problem, I'll probably post about it. Its human nature, I guess.

Just my $.02,
Roger


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## matrixshaman (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

It sounds like Surefire needs to take a lesson from Mag or take a look at how Mag switches are built. And I'd have to agree they seem very solid. I really do wish Surefire well but I think they are going to wake up one day and realize how much business they have lost due to things like this. It certainly doesn't seem like it needs to be this way as they are charging a premium price on their lights. I'd love to see them get QC up much higher.


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## dudemar (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

I've used my Pila clickie tailcap for almost a year, no problem.

Dudemar


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## Cuso (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

Are these the same Surefire's our troops and law enforcement use?? :thinking:


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## Size15's (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



cmacclel said:


> Surefire REALLY NEEDS to do something about their switches and QC. They know they are horribe and STILL do nothing about them....what gives.
> 
> Mac


Telling us doesn't solve anything (although it helps us learn more about products)

Have you told SureFire?

If you feel strongly perhaps writing a letter (rather than email or phone call) is a better means of helping them understand that you consider switch failure is unacceptable?


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## cmacclel (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



Size15's said:


> Telling us doesn't solve anything (although it helps us learn more about products)
> 
> Have you told SureFire?
> 
> If you feel strongly perhaps writing a letter (rather than email or phone call) is a better means of helping them understand that you consider switch failure is unacceptable?




I disagree. When you call Surefire customer service and tell them you have a tailcap failure the Customer Service Rep goes into autopilot mode and without a single question besides asking for your address sends you a new tailcap.

I'm pretty sure Surefire knows how many replacement tailcaps they are sending out for free each month 

I'm not a Surefire Hater or Follower I'm pretty neutral in the endless flashlight war. We all know where you stand.

I do expect regardless of manufacture for their product to work for at least a year problem free.

Did you see the Titan thread? Talk about horrible QC a LIMITED EDITION $500 light looking like that....I'd be pissed.



Mac


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## tvodrd (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

I think I own ~30 Surefires, mostly E-series and varients (L) and have to admit I don't usually carry one. (Not counting the Titan, which has been EDC since I received it.) I don't discount the multitude of failures that have been noted here on CPF! I personally, have never had a failure! :shrug:

And Al, snivelling to SF about a green tint on my recent L1 purchase would make about as much sense as snivelling about all the times I _won_ the "lottery" from SF!  (<- reply in wrong thread.)

Larry


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## bones_708 (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

One issue is that the switch may very well have been redesigned and the lights you have had the early switch. That has happened to many people buying surefires. I have to say comparing a maglite switch to a tail cap clicky is not even apples to oranges. It's more like apples to carrots! Tail cap switches are so much smaller and have so much less resistance the engineering of the two types are not interchangeable. As fare as the mag switch they do work very well but I've replaced about 2 dozen that have failed and a half dozen mag charger switches so perfect they are not.


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## cmacclel (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



bones_708 said:


> One issue is that the switch may very well have been redesigned and the lights you have had the early switch. That has happened to many people buying surefires. I have to say comparing a maglite switch to a tail cap clicky is not even apples to oranges. It's more like apples to carrots! Tail cap switches are so much smaller and have so much less resistance the engineering of the two types are not interchangeable. As fare as the mag switch they do work very well but I've replaced about 2 dozen that have failed and a half dozen mag charger switches so perfect they are not.



The light is the brand new released this year 6p Defender.

You are the first person that I have ever heard a Mag Switch failing in. Heck people here are running 10+ amps through them. I guess my luck with Surefire's and your Luck with MagLites is the same 

Also this has nothing to do with design, tailswitch and sideswitch is all the same design. The actual switch in the Maglite would fit into a tailcap no problem.

Mac


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## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

Maybe you just have bad luck dude. :twothumbs


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## WildChild (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

I don't know about the 6PD but the E2L switch got a new design, late this year. The switch I got with my E2L failed after 1 week. I saw here that there was a new design. The replacement I got was of the old design and failed after 3 clicks. The 2nd time I called I asked for the new design and I got it! This one seems a lot more reliable, the click action is smoother and much more consistent. But the two old design tailcaps have been repaired by opening them and lubing the plastic parts. No more failure after lubing and many hundreds clicks.



cmacclel said:


> The light is the brand new released this year 6p Defender.
> 
> You are the first person that I have ever heard a Mag Switch failing in. Heck people here are running 10+ amps through them. I guess my luck with Surefire's and your Luck with MagLites is the same
> 
> ...


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## Size15's (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



cmacclel said:


> I disagree. When you call Surefire customer service and tell them you have a tailcap failure the Customer Service Rep goes into autopilot mode and without a single question besides asking for your address sends you a new tailcap.


I am suggesting that calling SureFire is perhaps not the best way in communicating your message to them in a way that will make the most appropriate impact.
When a letter of complaint is received it has significantly more weight than a complaint heard over the phone, and a printed letter carries more weight than an email.
Letters are a physically representation of a customer's interaction with a supplier - I'm not saying its right but they do tend to be taken a lot more seriously.



> I'm pretty sure Surefire knows how many replacement tailcaps they are sending out for free each month


This is not the same as knowing how many dissatisfied customers they have.



> I do expect regardless of manufacture for their product to work for at least a year problem free.


This is not unreasonable of course. If a manufacturer does not seem to be responding to a problem in the way the customer expects then one course of action the customer can take is to try to make sure the manufacturer understands what the customer wants. A letter is one of the most powerful methods.
Another course of action is for the customer to withhold future business from the manufacturer, and they can also ensure that their experiences are shared with other prospective customers. This has limited effectiveness on larger companies that produce large quantities of product to a wide range of markets over which the individual customer has little to no influence.



> Did you see the Titan thread? Talk about horrible QC a LIMITED EDITION $500 light looking like that....I'd be pissed.


Mac, yes I saw the thread. You know what - if my Titan broke would I be pissed? I think I'd be embarrassed for both myself and SureFire. Would I be surprised or feel in some way hurt? No not really. Reading CPF I sometimes find it strange that people are surprised when their SureFires fail - after all SureFire is constantly having faults and issues highlighted by CPF members.
I expect everything to fail until such time it fails to fail and has earned my trust.

I am fully aware that any SureFire I buy, no matter how expensive can act up. I don't see the Titan as any different or special in this regard.
However, SureFire support their products and I know they will fix things.
They will provide me with products that I can depend on. I've learnt the path to this point is not always easy but without doubt I think its worth it.

Al


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## cmacclel (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

Al I fully agree with you and maybe I will send a letter in to Surefire explaining my bad luck.

The Titan I mentioned did not break it was assembled with flawed parts and the rotating head to change the brightness levels was severely cocked.

Mac


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## SolarMan (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

This is sad...

This is the first post I've read of yours (MAC) on this forum besides your own sales pitch section.

You post this topic simply as "Surefire" ... with a thumb down. Clearly you have a negative opinion of more than just a tailcap or your post would have been titled "Surefire tailcap problem" or something of the like.

Have any of your lights failed? Do YOU have the same no-questions asked replacement policy as Surefire?

Maybe someone could start a "Thumb Down" thread with the title of "Mac's Customs" ???

:thumbsdow


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## tvodrd (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



SolarMan said:


> This is sad...
> 
> This is the first post I've read of yours (MAC) on this forum besides your own sales pitch section.
> 
> ...



Congratulations on your thorough read on the first post in this thread! 

Larry


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## cmacclel (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



SolarMan said:


> This is sad...
> 
> This is the first post I've read of yours (MAC) on this forum besides your own sales pitch section.
> 
> ...




Pretty Pathetic and Tastless post I MUST say.

Do my lights Fail? to tell you the truth in all the lights that I have made only one has come back to me with a failure and it was a switch that failed.

Maybe I should have worded the title of this thread differently but how WOULD YOU FEEL if out of the 5 Stock Surefires you have owned 4 of them have had switch failures??? Notice how I said OWNED. I typically don't EDC lights so any lights that I due own get MINIMAL use.

As for posts other than sales pictches maybe you should try reading some of my posts 

Here is the Titan thread I was talking about Al

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2234242&postcount=101


Mac


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## StainlessSteel (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

Hello.

I am a nobody, and I post this in as many threads as I can about surefire clickly failures, but i rarely get a reply.

But, It is easy to fix those.

Just buy some lubricating oil. I use Hoppes, because I already have a lot. Take the tailcap off the light, and put 1-2 drops of oil in every hole you see next to the tailcap spring... then roll the tailcap around in your hand to spread the oil around inside the clicky assembly. Then start clicking. It should loosen right up, and not cause any more problems.

You don't need to take it apart. You don't need special tools. You don't need to mail it anywhere.

I fixed a surefire L4 tailcap, that failed after a year, and a fixed a BRAND NEW surefire 6PD tailcap that failed the first day.

try it.


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## cmacclel (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



StainlessSteel said:


> Hello.
> 
> I am a nobody, and I post this in as many threads as I can about surefire clickly failures, but i rarely get a reply.
> 
> ...



Thanks I'll try that 

Mac


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## matrixshaman (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



StainlessSteel said:


> Hello.
> 
> I am a nobody, and I post this in as many threads as I can about surefire clickly failures, but i rarely get a reply.
> 
> ...



Well here's a reply for you: :thanks:
It would be nice if that's all it takes to fix the problems. I'll keep it in mind in case any of mine ever fail but if that's all it would take to fix all the failures you'd think SF would have figured out by now to add a couple drops of oil in them. Here's hoping this is really the 'magical miracle fix'.


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## cmacclel (Dec 9, 2007)

I added "Tailcaps" to the title.

Mac


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## Lightguy27 (Dec 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

I don't want to sound like the wise, all knowing, barely a Flashaholic but even in the couple months I've been here Im so sick of people complaining about Surefire .Im not bad mouthing you cmacclel so please don't think that, I would be pretty mad myself if I was in your shoes. But out of all the talk about how overpriced surefire is, or how lousy their tailcaps are, how many threads are their of people saying not how their tailcap failed them, but "hey wow my tailcap is working just like it should and nothing is wrong". *NOBODY *will ever make a thread about how great their SF clikie is, know why?? Because it is totally insignificant UNTIL it doesent work, And then a thread pops up saying how a SF switch failed. This is just my 2 cents guys but unless I am crazy I think I make sense. No disrespect to you cmacclel and best of luck with your new clikies.

-Evan


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## da.gee (Dec 9, 2007)

It's pretty clear the tail cap is a point of failure on these lights and the number of failures is not insignificant regardless of any bias of those who report and those who don't. There was a poll not too long ago on the subject where everyone could indicate whether they have or haven't had a Surefire clicky fail. Numbers who have had a failure were more than just people with sour grapes sounding off. Myself, I've had two clickies, Z59 and stock on a new E2L fail. Z59 was DOA and the E2L tail cap failed after maybe twenty clicks. It doesn't deter me from buying more SFs as they have a solid warranty but it is a tad annoying and I would think a bit embarrassing for a "premium" light. Of course, at nearly $40 a pop for clickies perhaps there is some margin in there where replacing faulty ones doesn't kill the bottom line. They do make good on their product but that can be said for most the light manufacturers in this forum anyway.


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## djblank87 (Dec 10, 2007)

I have numerous Surefire products and as of late I ordered some Z59 tail caps from SF directly to put on a few 6P's that I have. Within two days of putting them on the 6P's, both Z59's no longer clicked on. 

I called Surefire the next day and was told that they were sorry to here about that and asked for my previous order number. I gave them the order number and then the rep stated ok, we will get two news ones out to you immediately. 

I did ask what would cause them to fail and was told it was probaly a bad batch and when I get the two new ones if those fail I was to call SF back and they would refund my money. 

Customer service was good I will never argue that. 

But as Al stated a letter written to Surefire would probaly make more impact in todays market. I tend to agree with that but I feel that if I spend my hard earned money and buy a product from a company the most I should have to do is make a phone call to them. 

Any company should be able to track problems there having, and with what items those problems are coming from simply by tracking the call volume in the cutomer service department and paying attention to what items are being replaced/returned/shipped out etc. to customer that have had items that have failied. 

Any company will always have problems with some of there items, that is a fact of life and nothing is perfect in this world. 

But if a company seems to have certian item fail more than others, they should pay a little more attention to those particular items that seem to fail more. By doing so it would save time and money with regards to the shipping/customer service reps and so on.


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## Lobo (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



Lightguy27 said:


> I don't want to sound like the wise, all knowing, barely a Flashaholic but even in the couple months I've been here Im so sick of people complaining about Surefire .Im not bad mouthing you cmacclel so please don't think that, I would be pretty mad myself if I was in your shoes. But out of all the talk about how overpriced surefire is, or how lousy their tailcaps are, how many threads are their of people saying not how their tailcap failed them, but "hey wow my tailcap is working just like it should and nothing is wrong". *NOBODY *will ever make a thread about how great their SF clikie is, know why?? Because it is totally insignificant UNTIL it doesent work, And then a thread pops up saying how a SF switch failed. This is just my 2 cents guys but unless I am crazy I think I make sense. No disrespect to you cmacclel and best of luck with your new clikies.
> 
> -Evan



But the same thing goes for all the other manufacturers, yet you don't see a lot of reports of Mags, Fenix, Streamlight etc that has faulty clickies. IMHO, the clickies is an issue Surefire has that they should tend to before it soils it reputation for quality (like when the Mercedes A-class flipped over in a evasive manouver test).


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## da.gee (Dec 10, 2007)

A positive for Surefire: I do have great appreciation for the standard twisty, momentary on, lockout tail cap. That is a classic. 

Clickies would appear to need some attention but I don't believe their failure indicates overall deterioration of their flashlight product. Many of SF's latest offerings with Cree LEDs are top notch choices in their class. The 6PL, G2L, L1 and even the E2L with its long runtimes are very nice lights even with the SF premium. I don't have an L1 but talk says its a winner


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



ttran97 said:


> I think you're talking about Litfuse...right?





Yes, thanks. It was Litfuse. He would take the tailcap apart and reassemble it making the adjustment that fixes the problem. Also smoothed out the action. He did not use oil, if I remember correctly.

Bill


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## Monocrom (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



cmacclel said:


> You are the first person that I have ever heard a Mag Switch failing in....
> 
> Mac


 
I guess you can add my name to that short list. My first full-sized Maglite (3D model) literally fell apart on me. I carried it as the emergency light in my car. The rubber switch literally popped out of the barrel. And even though I tried, it refused to pop back in.... Then things actually got worse! If I go into detail, I don't think you'd believe me! I ended up standing next to my car with all of the Maglite's parts in my hands. :sick2:

Only own a handful of Surefires. So far, no problems.


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## DM51 (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



StainlessSteel said:


> Just buy some lubricating oil. I use Hoppes, because I already have a lot. Take the tailcap off the light, and put 1-2 drops of oil in every hole you see next to the tailcap spring... then roll the tailcap around in your hand to spread the oil around inside the clicky assembly. Then start clicking. It should loosen right up, and not cause any more problems.
> 
> You don't need to take it apart. You don't need special tools. You don't need to mail it anywhere.
> 
> ...


Is this Hoppe's '009' solution you are using? The solvent used for cleaning guns? It is very good for removing powder residue and carbonation deposits. It may also be that it is effective for the sort of gunk that might accumulate over time in a tailcap.

My SF clickies are working OK, so I can't test it myself, but it would be very interesting to hear if this works for other people. Thanks for the idea.


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## SolarMan (Dec 10, 2007)

cmacclel said:


> I added "Tailcaps" to the title.
> 
> Mac


 
Thanks Mac

I appreciate that! :twothumbs

Eric


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## cmacclel (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



StainlessSteel said:


> Hello.
> 
> I am a nobody, and I post this in as many threads as I can about surefire clickly failures, but i rarely get a reply.
> 
> ...





Just as Stainless Steel said. 2 drops in each side of the switchs and it worked instantly!

Last night I was banging it on the bench hard enough to leave a mark on the maple top trying to dislodge the stuck plunger.

2 drop of oil instantly fixed the problem. The light will go to work with me today where the switch will get a workout to see if fails again.

So what does this initial observation that S.S. stated mean??? Surefire switches need lubrication but are not lubricated from Surefire?

Mac


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## 65535 (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

Maglight, Surefire, and pens all use the same type of plunger switch. It relies on a plunger with slanted teeth on the circumference which allows the light to be engaged or disengaged, if you have a clear pen, you can watch the plunger go around in circles as you click it on and off.

Here is a disassembled U2 tailcap.








All the tailcap needs is some lubricant, mag picked a good plastic to use, which has low friction, and doesn't stick to itself, surefire's plastic seems to be less forgiving. Maybe Rothandir could whip out a bunch of Teflon Surefire clicky assemblies. 

Hope this helps, it's how I fixed mine that failed in less a day, never had a problem since.


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## cmacclel (Dec 10, 2007)

If the Fix to all Surefire Tailcaps is a little lubricant (which from research here on CPF it seem like it is!) then why on earth would surefire not lubricate their switches? 

Mac


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## bouncer (Dec 10, 2007)

Mine stick a bit but no failures and one of my clickies has been used for two years


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## Beamhead (Dec 10, 2007)

They do and from my experience its that fairly thick grease which can be the culprit. I have only had one switch that was a real bugger but disassembly, cleaning, stretching the small contact plunger spring seen in 65535's pics, and reassembling with Krytox 50/50 made it sweet.


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## harryballs (Dec 10, 2007)

Awesome guys job guys! :twothumbs 

Thanks for the tip StainlessSteel!:goodjob:
Thanks cmaccel. I would be really pissed too:hairpull: if my Surefire tail cap broke.


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## MorpheusT1 (Dec 10, 2007)

Ive had this problem too,but cleaning the thick gunk out and lubricating with a thinner lubricant have worked every time.

Another culprit is the McClicky.
These switches has failed me even more than the Surefire clickies.
I dont know how to open these im afraid,but dripping some Nanolube in the pushbotton gap has fixed my problems.


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## PJD (Dec 10, 2007)

I've owned quite a few Surefires over the years, and have only had problems with one switch; the Z57 on the first L4 I had. That's not to say that others HAVEN'T had problems. From what I've read, there've been quite a few others. Like Mac, I'm pretty neutral on the "love/hate" SF thing. My only REAL gripe with SF came in the days of their luxI and luxIII lights...they had what I considered to be the absolute WORST tints I'd ever seen (on the ones I received anyway...the lotto reared it's ugly head on numerous occassions).

I've read through the "quick fixes" that have been posted in numerous threads in regards to faulty SF switches, and they do seem to work. But my take on it is (...FWIW) that you shouldn't HAVE TO do a quick fix! When you purchase a SF, you're paying a premium price for what's supposed to be a premium light. The switches shouldn't need to be "tweaked" or replaced at the rate in which they are...PERIOD! That's not to say that there should never be a problem. Even the best QC departments have things get through the cracks...it's gonna happen, even with a company like SF. SF HAS redesigned some of their switches of late, but some folks are still having issues. The ones that report the issues are NOT necissarily "SF bashers", they're just passing on something that they think SHOULD be passed on.

Like I said, I've owned quite a few SF's, and for the most part I've been pretty happy with them. My only point to this post is that, like I said, you shouldn't HAVE to do a quick fix, a "tweak", or get a replacement on the switch of a light that costs as much as a SF within days, weeks, or even months of your purchase. SF CS is quite good, but standing on the outside looking in, I'm of the opinion that SF has yet to properly address the issue of faulty switches in what are supposed to be "high end" lights. Just my $.02...as always, YMMV.

PJD


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## Beamhead (Dec 10, 2007)

MorpheusT1, The only McClickie that gave me any trouble at all was my first one which was due to thick grease, since then the several I have and use regularly have been flawless.

They are quite easy to open, just pry off the contact ring and separate the body.













Sorry for the OT sidebar.


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## MorpheusT1 (Dec 10, 2007)

Thanks Beamster 


I bought a bag of them from the shoppe a while back,must have been some bad seeds.

I`ll crank open the next bugger that tryes to act up on me and give it a go.


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## Numbers (Dec 10, 2007)

I fixed a broken Z57 with one drop of 3in1 oil. Why I had to fix it is beyond me. Why SF doesent lube them is even more incomprehensible.


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## Beamhead (Dec 10, 2007)

Numbers said:


> I fixed a broken Z57 with one drop of 3in1 oil. Why I had to fix it is beyond me. Why SF doesent lube them is even more incomprehensible.


 
They do, they use a grease that is the culprit, those who drop thinner oils/lubes in are more than likely thinning it, fixing the issue.


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## zx7dave (Dec 10, 2007)

I have 30+ SureFires models past and present several well over a decade old. They all get use and I have never had a tailcap or any other failure. Sorry to hear you are having bad luck in this area, but I stand by SureFire as one of the best made lights out there.


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## StainlessSteel (Dec 10, 2007)

I use this oil right here:

http://www.hoppes.com/products/lubricating_oil.html

I am NOT saying it is the only one that will work. I AM saying it has worked REALLY well for me.

Edited to add:

You guys REALLY do NOT have to go through all the trouble with these clickies: buying EXPENSIVE McClicky replacements, taking the time to tear them apart, making special tools to tear them apart, calling surefire and waiting for a replacement. Just try 2-3 drops of the above oil, in every hole you see in the clicky, and it will work.


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## cmacclel (Dec 10, 2007)

StainlessSteel said:


> I use this oil right here:
> 
> http://www.hoppes.com/products/lubricating_oil.html
> 
> I am NOT saying it is the only one that will work. I AM saying it has worked REALLY well for me.




I used CMP BreakFree.

Mac


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## Lightguy27 (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



Lobo said:


> But the same thing goes for all the other manufacturers, yet you don't see a lot of reports of Mags, Fenix, Streamlight etc that has faulty clickies. IMHO, the clickies is an issue Surefire has that they should tend to before it soils it reputation for quality (like when the Mercedes A-class flipped over in a evasive manouver test).


 

In the years that Mag has been around Iam 100% confident that they have had multiple switch failures, same for Fenix and Streamlight. I don't think as many as SF but even so, when the Mag, Fenix and Streamlight switches fail, which would be more of a rarity than a SF switch failing, howcome no one posts? Because they don't want to flaw Mags reputation for their perfect no maintence self-cleaning al mighty switch, MAGS FAIL TOO. I don't want to start a war and Im sorry if Im coming off rude :thumbsup:. My point is ALL switches fail regaurdless of Manufacturer, but all you ever hear about is SF. Just my 2 cents guys, so please no hard feelings.

-Evan


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## rtt (Dec 10, 2007)

I wanted to add my two cents! I worked for a very large company for 37 years in Development and Product Engineering and was involved in numerous Customer satisfaction issues with very large Customers. 

The bottom line is dollars! We determined the failure rate of components in the field and made a dollar expenditure cost analysis of whether to replace all suspect parts in installed systems or let the part fail and be replaced by service reps on a one on one basis. Customer sat actually figured into the cost analysis that we did. I.E. if the Customer experienced this failure on his system, would that preclude the affected Customer to not purchase any systems that we offered?

Based on my experience, SF is not experiencing enough tailcap problems to warrant any action (field failure rate is not large enough). This means that SF has determined that it is more cost effective to replace a faulty switch through their Customer Service on a one on one basis than to incure cost of a redesign or implementing a more stringent Quality Control process.


----------



## cmacclel (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



Lightguy27 said:


> In the years that Mag has been around Iam 100% confident that they have had multiple switch failures, same for Fenix and Streamlight. I don't think as many as SF but even so, when the Mag, Fenix and Streamlight switches fail, which would be more of a rarity than a SF switch failing, howcome no one posts? Because they don't want to flaw Mags reputation for their perfect no maintence self-cleaning al mighty switch, MAGS FAIL TOO. I don't want to start a war and Im sorry if Im coming off rude :thumbsup:. My point is ALL switches fail regaurdless of Manufacturer, but all you ever hear about is SF. Just my 2 cents guys, so please no hard feelings.
> 
> -Evan




I doubt people here are really concerned about flawing companies reputations. The reason why Surefire light failures are posted is because there lights are *Supposed* to be the best. When spending 4x the cost of a Maglite on Surefire's cheapest model people actually expect it to work for a reasonable amount of time.

Look at the few people that posted in this thread where there switches has failed in the first day of ownership.....100% unacceptable!

Mac


----------



## Braddah_Bill (Dec 10, 2007)

This thread has been most helpful to me. Just a little lube and the washer trick in reply #13 makes the Z-57 operate so much better. Of course my back-up E2e has a Z-52 twisty.





http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31187




Braddah_Bill


----------



## stitch_paradox (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



Lightguy27 said:


> In the years that Mag has been around Iam 100% confident that they have had multiple switch failures, same for Fenix and Streamlight. I don't think as many as SF but even so, when the Mag, Fenix and Streamlight switches fail, which would be more of a rarity than a SF switch failing, howcome no one posts? Because they don't want to flaw Mags reputation for their perfect no maintence self-cleaning al mighty switch, MAGS FAIL TOO. I don't want to start a war and Im sorry if Im coming off rude :thumbsup:. My point is ALL switches fail regaurdless of Manufacturer, but all you ever hear about is SF. Just my 2 cents guys, so please no hard feelings.
> 
> -Evan



Clearly you don't see the whole concept here. No one said that Maglite, Fenix, Streamlight, Etc. never had a failed switch, I am sure they did, alot maybe but not compared to the number of SF. The brand name isn't the issue here but the QC of the manufacturing company. Like mac implied it is very disappointing to have a failed switch from a very reputable flashlight company, that the majority considers the the best. When a switch from a $20 Maglite fail it is disappointing, but whats more disappointing is a failed switch from a light that is at the 2x to 5x more the price of regular light. 

Let me make a car analogy: (just an example, cars mentioned are just used for example, I am not degrading brands here) 

I'm in a search for a car. I'm choosing between 2 makers. One is a Toyota (or GMC) and the other one is a Mercedez Benz. I was led to believe from the Mercedez Benz company's advertisement that they produce best vehicle in terms of reliabilty, quality, and power output. And I was advised by people who bought MB that just by adding some more money I get the best car in town, when compared to the Toyota. So I went ahead with the MB. Then after a few start of the ignition it gave up on me. I notified the MB, and they immediately sent a replacement ignition and also a mechanic to fix it. Sounds good right? But NO... you see I paid more for the MB because I was expecting MORE of it in terms of reliability and quality. Clearly it has more power and style than the other car but it lacked more where I expected it to perform. Maybe I just had a bad car, I researched then I found out that I was not the only one who experienced a bad ignition. Someone advised that I wrote a letter of complaint to the company, some people said it's fixable let it be, while some said well they did send a replacement right? That is not the point , I paid more for a better car because I expect better quality. I didn't buy the car to write to the company, or to fix it myself, or to wait for the mechanic to replace the ignition. I bought it expecting to have a hassle free drive for along time knowing that my car is high quality produced. But it's the oppostie that happend. Now isn't that dissapoiting?


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

Maybe lubricating those switches the "CPF way" could increase resistance or cause otehr problems? I dunno. :shrug:

One of my new E2L switches jammed. 

bernie


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Dec 10, 2007)

You know guys, when my E series clickies stop working I am going to contact 
SF, have them send me a new one, and I am going to fix the broken one. I do not have expectations that my SF clicky will work in the short term or long term. I will still buy SF lights and if they have a clicky, I will deal with it. Let's move on.

Bill


----------



## MikeLip (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



Monocrom said:


> I guess you can add my name to that short list. My first full-sized Maglite (3D model) literally fell apart on me. I carried it as the emergency light in my car. The rubber switch literally popped out of the barrel. And even though I tried, it refused to pop back in.... Then things actually got worse! If I go into detail, I don't think you'd believe me! I ended up standing next to my car with all of the Maglite's parts in my hands. :sick2:
> 
> Only own a handful of Surefires. So far, no problems.



I bought a new Mag 6D for a ROP mod. The switch was broken out of the box. Nice QC job there, Mag! Never had a SF switch fail.


----------



## stitch_paradox (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*



MikeLip said:


> I bought a new Mag 6D for a ROP mod. The switch was broken out of the box. Nice QC job there, Mag! Never had a SF switch fail.



See this kind of post starts the so called "brand wars". :shakehead This is kind of an immature post IMO. LIKE I said its not about the brand names, it is about quality and expectation. People just have a natural tendency to expect more from a overly hyped and a tad more expensive item. Again no flashlight maker is perfect whether a custom maker , a Chinese company, or an American company, I'm pretty much sure alot of lights have switch deficiency regardless of where it came from. The bottom line is, when a light is advertised or just plainly hyped as the "best" flashlight, people just expect a bit better switch than the norm. And also IMHO the price might be a playing aspect too. Maglites might have alot of defective parts but people tend not to complain about it because it is really not expensive an expensive light, atleast when compared to others. When you pay higher for something whether this be a light, a food, or a car your expectation goes higher too, and when the quality of that said product goes below your expectation that is when disappointment seeps in. Its is just exactly like what the famous old saying says "_You get what you pay for_", but in Mac's case this saying cannot be applied.


----------



## 65535 (Dec 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire*

Surefire does lubricate all the contacts and metal components in their clickys, but they never have lubricated the plastic plunger, that is what always sticks, everything else inside the tailcap works fine. I am only familiar with disassembly of the U2 clicky, which can be done with round nose pliers, or C clip retaining ring pliers with the 2 vertical posts.


----------



## xevious (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Yes, thanks. It was Litfuse. He would take the tailcap apart and reassemble it making the adjustment that fixes the problem. Also smoothed out the action. He did not use oil, if I remember correctly.
> 
> Bill


I hope Litfuse has contacted Surefire to let them know of his special adjustment. Maybe they can field test it and after validation start making their switches accordingly.

My brand new U2 switch has failed after less than an hour of use, maybe 100 clicks at the most. This is a high serial number too, which means it was made no too long ago. I'm appalled at a failure so early on. I'm definitely contacting Surefire to get a tail cap replacement and after I get it I'm going to click the hell out of it to be sure it's not the exact same faulty switch.


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire*



xevious said:


> My brand new U2 switch has failed after less than an hour of use, maybe 100 clicks at the most. This is a high serial number too, which means it was made no too long ago. I'm appalled at a failure so early on. I'm definitely contacting Surefire to get a tail cap replacement and after I get it I'm going to click the hell out of it to be sure it's not the exact same faulty switch.


 
U2 switches failing horribly is nothing new. The problem used to be much worse just a few months ago.


----------



## Any Cal. (Jan 20, 2008)

I find much of this interesting. Do you realize, that depending on the price range of the product, failures can be a "quirk", or they can make a product "junk". 
Without starting brand wars, how many brands that sell for less than Surefire, would people continue to support if their tailcap switches had similiar failure rates? Would you personally buy a [email protected] if you had a 1 in 4 chance of getting a non-op clicky? The notion is ridiculous, as most would simply spend more money to get it right, or buy something even less expensive. 
While I own and enjoy my MSR Whisperlite Int. stove, the potential for hard starts, dirty jets, and lack of simmering ability are generally considered "quirks". If a $15 China made stove acted similiarly, no one would buy the "piece of junk".
In a similar way, people have no problem with malfunctioning switches that cost more than many whole lights, which are in many cases statistically more reliable. I say they have no problem with them because they continue to buy them. So obviously, these switches are seen as a quirk rather than being indicative of the overall level of quality. Why should the company change anything? Not only does the company's price affect the consumer's view of them, it allows enough margin to console those who do complain.
I am not knocking any one company, or reccomending any other, but rather find the whole discussion interesting as far as many people's view on the matter.


----------



## Lightguy27 (Jan 20, 2008)

Well since this thread has been brought up again I guess this is the perfect time to tell you all that out of my 8 SF's and 20 Total lights with clickies, bought a new 2D Mag the other night and the switch just locked up on me and would'nt turn off. 8 SF's, 20 total lights with clikies, and my first clickie switch failure is a Maglite. Does any more need to be said?? But really though switchs failing are just part of buying flashlights, luck of the draw. So in my case and this will vary for others, SF is more reliable than Mag, not to mention brighter, smaller, and tougher. Oh, and I can just see it now, the people quoting statistics and proving that SF has had more clikie failures than SF, but I don't give a crap about statistics unless they are on MY light collection. And to those statistics lovers Mag has probably made twice the clickie lights of SF.

-Evan


----------



## 65535 (Jan 20, 2008)

I have yet to come across a flashlight clicky that was not easy to fix, in most cases some dry graphite lubricant will solve all your problems, ably sparingly and work it in, in extreme cases lapping powder or possibly even polishing paste can be used to lap the parts if they are too tight, and then dry graphite lube on the clean parts will solve your problems, dry lube is best for plastic on plastic friction in my opinion.


----------



## karlthev (Jan 20, 2008)

Hey numbers, I haven't "fixed" any switches in any sense than a spritz or two with ProGold and I guess one could agrue that constitutes a "fix" of sorts--they worked better after I messed with them. You have indicated that you have never run across a flashlight switch that was not easy to fix. Can you give us some idea of how many you have come across--both those needing a fix and those not? I'm curious since this thread was started by Mac who runs across many switches. What is YOUR experience with these? Maybe I can learn which to avoid! Thanks!


Karl


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## Monocrom (Jan 20, 2008)

*To: Any Cal. ~*

As far as Surefire goes, I own 7 different models. Four of them with clickies. Of those, the two I EDC are my L4 or E2d. I've had zero problems with my four clickie SF models. Still, I must admit that I will never buy a U2. Far too many reported cases of clickie failure. often, right out of the box. I don't consider this to be a quirk. I consider it to be a ridiculous failure; considering the price and Surefire's reputation.

It's great that they'll send you a replacement tailcap switch for free. But what happens if you're a soldier in Iraq, and the light fails when you literally need it to work reliably? With all of their government contracts, Surefire should know better. 

Still, it's probably more cost-effective to replace each defective switch as each individual complaint comes in.... rather than issue a recall. And who cares if the reputation of the U2 takes a major hit. Apparently not Surefire!

I love all of my Surefire lights. Especially my new M6. But their business practices leave a bit to be desired for.


----------



## dmonay (Jan 20, 2008)

I have a pelican 2340 2xAA light with a clickie switch that works just great, never had a problem with it. A little pressure and it lights up push it in farther and release and it stays on. I think if all clickies were like that one there would be no discussion about clickies


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 20, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> *To: Any Cal. ~*
> 
> As far as Surefire goes, I own 7 different models. Four of them with clickies. Of those, the two I EDC are my L4 or E2d. I've had zero problems with my four clickie SF models. Still, I must admit that I will never buy a U2. Far too many reported cases of clickie failure. often, right out of the box. I don't consider this to be a quirk. I consider it to be a ridiculous failure; considering the price and Surefire's reputation.
> 
> ...



Not sure, but I believe that Surefire military contract lights have the momentary/twist switch for hand held use. When pk gave his 'Tactical light" demonstration at the Surefire CPF party during 2006 SHOT he touted the virtues of the Surefire momentary/twisty switch. For demo purposes he used a G2, dropping it to the floor to demonstrate the advantages of a light that would turn off using momentary when a soldier dropped the light.

Bill


----------



## karlthev (Jan 20, 2008)

"I love all of my Surefire lights. Especially my new M6. But their business practices leave a bit to be desired for."

Seems to be the popular concensus Monocrom. I agree. I've not personally experienced a failure but, I guess I'm fortunate since return to SF and quick response don't always seem to go hand in hand--from what I have heard.

Numbers, what's been your experience??:shrug:

Karl


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## xevious (Jan 20, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> *To: Any Cal. ~*
> 
> As far as Surefire goes, I own 7 different models. Four of them with clickies. Of those, the two I EDC are my L4 or E2d. I've had zero problems with my four clickie SF models. Still, I must admit that I will never buy a U2. Far too many reported cases of clickie failure. often, right out of the box. I don't consider this to be a quirk. I consider it to be a ridiculous failure; considering the price and Surefire's reputation.
> 
> ...


I have to believe that a replacement will work reliably, on average. After searching around (took a while with all of these CPF 'fatal' search errors), I did see a one or two people have to replace their U2 switches a couple of times. A click-switch is a click-switch... for the same form factor, I can't see SF making a different switch for each model--not cost effective to do that.

Anyway, your bias on never buying a U2 because of the switch seems a bit extreme to me--when the switch works, it's a really great light. I know, "when"... Surefire switch replacements should last, though. The great feature of the U2 is being able to adjust your beam level without cycling through a bunch of clicks--you just rotate the head ring. It is a very usable design that also eliminates having a software memory to retain selection.

The only gripe I have is that of ALL my other flashlights, many of them cheapies and a few $50+ and $100+, I've never experienced a switch failure. NEVER. And so coming across it in the most expensive flashlight I've ever purchased is rather unsettling. For now... Once replaced and functional, I'll look at this as a "quirk" in my generally positive Surefire experience.


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 20, 2008)

I've had about 4 clickies go bad on me. As stated in posts above, my U2 was NEW, it crapped out within minutes of using. Luckily I have tools to open it and lubed the inside. It has worked flawlessly since. I've had more problems with the E-series clickies, but did the same with the lube and all work just fine since. I thought about calling surefire about the issue, but decided against it as the lube seems to fix the problem every time.

Some people freak about it, but it doesn't bother me as the fix is pretty damn easy. 
Surefire also seems to send out tailcaps like candy at holloween.

I did make a call about a year ago about my L4 tailcap not working and the rep took my info and said one will be sent out.......It NEVER came.

Thats the ONLY time (so far) that Surefires customer service has let me down......I probably shoulda made a call to find out what happened.


----------



## cheapo (Jan 20, 2008)

DaFABRICATA said:


> I've had about 4 clickies go bad on me. As stated in posts above, my U2 was NEW, it crapped out within minutes of using. Luckily I have tools to open it and lubed the inside. It has worked flawlessly since. I've had more problems with the E-series clickies, but did the same with the lube and all work just fine since. I thought about calling surefire about the issue, but decided against it as the lube seems to fix the problem every time.
> 
> Some people freak about it, but it doesn't bother me as the fix is pretty damn easy.
> Surefire also seems to send out tailcaps like candy at holloween.
> ...



was that my former U2 whose clicky went bad on you?


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 20, 2008)

Cheapo, 

No it wasn't. I traded a weaponlight to a fellow CPF member, it was new in package!!

BTW.....Can you PM me with any details I need to know about the 18650 battery you sent with it? I PMed you before and never heard back from you.

_*I love my U2's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*_

Thanks!


----------



## marinemaster (Jan 20, 2008)

I saw a new advertise of SF from last year. I think is from 2007 consumer catalog. They say something like this.

1) Bulbs will Fail
2) Switches will fail
3) Batteries will go dead

All else will be reliable. So they expect this to happen, so lets be realistic. Is a mechanical part it will fail at one point or another. I cant tell you go many desklight swithces I have replaced.....so this is normal. 

I say that with a LED and a Twisty switch you have a high reliability. Get some rechargeable from AW and a LED module and the twisty switch and one should have a very reliable light.

Chris


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## Monocrom (Jan 20, 2008)

Ironically, there's a simple enough fix for unreliable SF clickies.

Instead of giving away clickies like free candy, perhaps Surefire should try a couple of drops of oil in each one before final assembly. Seems as though it would be far more cost-effective....

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2259027&postcount=34


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## djblank87 (Jan 21, 2008)

I understand that things will fail that is life but when one particular item fails more than just about any other thing in your product line up, it should be looked into and fixed accordingly.

Now, most of the CPF members say, "well just put some gun oil and there and it will fix it right up". That might just do the trick but when I'm paying over $35.00 for a tailcap I do not want to do anything other than put it on the light an watch it work. 

I did say things will fail and thats life, but since I posted in the first page in this thread when it started I have had four other tailcaps fail on me within three to six days of buying them. 

That is not by any means ok and then to call and have very, very poor customer service on top of it really is a bummer. I can only hear it is a bad batch, poor springs so many times before I have to start buying aftermarket tailcap for my SF lights. 

I guess I'm just not lucky with tailcap situation........:mecry:


----------



## da.gee (Jan 21, 2008)

Sure seems like more than bad luck. I don't see how one can defend this high rate of failure as anything but unacceptable at minimum and outrageous at the other end of the spectrum. Even from the small population here on CPF there is report of failure after failure. What might it be in the quantities sold to government agencies. Perhaps these agencies have boxes of spare tailcaps in the warehouse and individual buyers are just chump change. My first two Surefire lights both clickies failed within a week and that's just playing around with them. It is unacceptable and I would think at some point Surefire would take action to protect their reputation as well as serve their customers. Makes all those claims of dependability ring rather hollow. I guess since we keep buying their product it's not that big a concern for them.


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 21, 2008)

da.gee said:


> Sure seems like more than bad luck. I don't see how one can defend this high rate of failure as anything but unacceptable at minimum and outrageous at the other end of the spectrum. Even from the small population here on CPF there is report of failure after failure. What might it be in the quantities sold to government agencies. Perhaps these agencies have boxes of spare tailcaps in the warehouse and individual buyers are just chump change. My first two Surefire lights both clickies failed within a week and that's just playing around with them. It is unacceptable and I would think at some point Surefire would take action to protect their reputation as well as serve their customers. Makes all those claims of dependability ring rather hollow. I guess since we keep buying their product it's not that big a concern for them.


 
As Bullzeyebill pointed out, Surefire's momentary switches are the ones which are bulletproof reliable. And it's likely that the models with _those _switches are the ones getting sent out to government agencies and the military. But that's just speculation on my part.


----------



## MikeSalt (Jan 21, 2008)

*Re: Surefire*

Companies are allowed to make mistakes, but they should learn from them. Surefire seem to just replace the clickies willy-nilly, without making much ground. Maybe they should send out the replacement switches with a postage-paid return mailbag for the damaged clickie, so they can carry out a post-mortem on the damaged switch? They would learn alot more from this course of action.

When a certain non-Surefire company discovered they had an 'unusually high failure rate' of the click-switches, the fact was publically acknowledged, and the product immediately discontinued. This was done to allow a redesign of the switch to avoid issues in the future. This is a much more sensible course of action in this circumstance.


----------



## dougie (Jan 21, 2008)

When reading this thread the thing that strikes me as immediately obvious is the defensive way in which some folks get when Surefire (SF) is criticised.

SF like any other company is not immune from problems with component failure. Nothing which is electrical or mechanical can ever be 100% reliable. Unfortunately SF is its own worst enemy in this context because for the majority of those owners who've bought a SF light will IMHO have a higher expectation of product satisfaction.

Given that SF is renowned for quality products and pushes it's reliabiity and ruggedness is it unreasonable for private customers to feel let down when a component fails so early on? If I have a component failure in a Mag or Fenix I'd be miffed but wouldn't feel that bad because I know that the product is not marketed as high end performance or quality. If a SF fails I'd feel let down because my hard earned money and my trust in the manufacturer was damaged. The fact that they (SF) have good customer service doesn't negate the loss of confidence in the product or company name.

I personally dont buy the idea that SF hasn't realised that they have a problem. SF will almost certainly know the failure rate on any given component by the number of warranty claims. However, SF isn't about satisfying individual expectations or appeasing members of CPF. 

SF is supplying huge numbers of lights to the military and various law enforcement agencies both domestic and foreign and in that context the failure rates must be below a certain perecentage of volume or they would jepordise their chances of a contract being renewed. 

In essence whilst we don't know the failure rates they do. If the problem was affecting volume sales I'm sure they would take action. As far as individual sales to ordinary citizens goes SF can claim justifiably that it is serving you well because it is doing something to rectify the situation by either repairing or replacing the component.

The only issue here is whether as an individual your sale is as important to SF as the product reliablity is to you? Only you can answer that question and only you can decide whether you will continue to buy more SF's?

Doug


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## Jamougha (Jan 21, 2008)

> In essence whilst we don't know the failure rates they do.


To be fair, when multiple people from a small user base are each reporting multiple failures, either the true rate is quite high or it's a shocking fluke.

A cynic might wonder what they are doing with the rejected parts from their huge institutional orders.


----------



## Ray_of_Light (Jan 21, 2008)

I also had some SF clickies failing to operate.
I have found that some of them are lubricated with the infamous "non migrating" silicone grease, that in some occasions locks the plastic that it was supposed to lubricate.
To fix the problem, it is enough to open the switch, remove the old grease, and add some proper silicone grease. A drop of oil added from the external may work, but you don't attain the necessary level of reliability.
The very first batch of Z57 (the ones that litfuse was fixing) were the only SF tailcaps that had a real mechanical issue. He had to insert a grower between the two plastic halves of the switch to make it work. I had my first L4 with this issue, which I fixed.
All other aspects of SF switches, from very low electrical resistance to repeatibily, are well above average. I believe they (SF) have just been unlucky with the grease, also because the problem develops after some time of storage in moisty places.
Regards

Anthony


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## Carpenter (Jan 21, 2008)

Got my first failed clicky on a E2E. (Batting .800 with me right now) Replacement is on the way, but I'm growing fond of the way it is. It's broken in the on position, so technically it's a twisty right now.. :thumbsup:


----------



## djblank87 (Jan 21, 2008)

Ray_of_Light said:


> . I believe they (SF) have just been unlucky with the grease, also because the problem develops after some time of storage in moisty places.
> Regards
> 
> Anthony


 
I disagree with that, Surefire can not be that unluckly with tailcaps/grease and so lucky with top of the line flashlights, I just do not see it that way. A company like Surefire that makes so many great flashlights should not have such a simple problem with there tailcaps. 

Take the Kroma or A2 for that matter, a company that can build a light like those and have them run years on end cant get the tailcaps to work for more then days or years in some cases :thinking:. 

I own a lot of Surefire products and am pretty loyal to there company and my recent tailcap issues have sent me right up the wall, so now I do not use Surefire clickies Z49/Z59's on my lights G2's and 6P's. I use after market ones and have yet had a problem with those.


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## xevious (Jan 21, 2008)

Maybe it's time for a "clicky failure" poll... 

The only trouble with the polls is that you can't vote more than once, so you can only choose to report on one brand--if the poll is by brand. And then if you have one for Surefire and one for "other", it looks to be in bad form. :shrug:


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## Marduke (Jan 21, 2008)

xevious said:


> Maybe it's time for a "clicky failure" poll...
> 
> The only trouble with the polls is that you can't vote more than once, so you can only choose to report on one brand--if the poll is by brand. And then if you have one for Surefire and one for "other", it looks to be in bad form. :shrug:



There already is a surefire clicky fail pole, and compared to the fenix failure pole, guess who "won"?

And yes, you can vote multiple times in a pole if it's set up for it.


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## xevious (Jan 21, 2008)

Marduke said:


> There already is a surefire clicky fail pole, and compared to the fenix failure pole, guess who "won"?
> 
> And yes, you can vote multiple times in a pole if it's set up for it.


Ah yes, I just noticed that, thanks... well, allowing multiple tallies for each brand may get a little complicated. I posted a poll for the brand giving the _most_ clicky switch trouble to try keeping it simple. I'm not sure how old the Surefire/Fenix clicky poll is... I did provide a list of notable brands upon which to vote, so it'll be interesting to see if there are any that go without a vote.


----------



## Beastmaster (Jan 21, 2008)

Out of all of my SureFires, I have had one forward click/momentary unit fail, which was replaced and I haven't had an issue since.

All of my twist/momentary units are fine, even the 18 year old ones.

I'm definitely outside the norm, it seems like. I do beat the snot out of my lights - some have been repainted with black matte Krylon over and over to where the SureFire logos have been obscured, but every switch save one has been great for me.

-Steve


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## adamlau (Jan 21, 2008)

I have had a number of switches fail within the past few months. Called up SF customer service and was met with less than expected responses. Questioning me regarding excessive tailcap replacements due to failures is unacceptable. Now I have a number of lights sitting in a drawer without caps :thumbsdow. I do plan to write SF a letter per Size15's recommendation.


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## Marduke (Jan 21, 2008)

adamlau said:


> Questioning me regarding excessive tailcap replacements due to failures is unacceptable.



It certainly is unacceptable!! Just not quite the way they meant.


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## 5kids (Jan 21, 2008)

I posted my failure in the clickie poll.

My 6PD (Defender) was DOA out of the package after 2 clicks. The only reason I got the 6PD instead of the 6P was because it came with the clickie switch. I could really care less about the defender strike head. I call Surefire for a replacement and they only asked for my address to ship out a replacement. It seemed pretty obvious that I wasn't the first to call with the problem.

After 2 weeks of checking the mail every day and no new clicke, I called SF back only to find out the tail cap is still on backorder! They told me now that I should recieve it within the week.

SF's customer service seems great, but I really didn't like to be kept hanging thinking it was coming when it wasn't. I guess I'll try the lube-job and see if I can get it working.


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## xevious (Jan 21, 2008)

**** UPDATE ****

I just got off the phone with Surefire support. They're sending me a new tail cap switch for the U2. I asked if this switch is any different than the original and the support rep said that they've been recently redesigned and this will be the new one. The failure problem is now resolved, he said. Of course, I don't know if that's the usual schpeel, or if it's indeed an updated switch. Has anyone else here been told anything similar?

Btw, no inquiry about serial number, if I dropped it, or anything else... they only asked for my name and mailing address.

7-10 business days and we'll see.


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## Numbers (Jan 21, 2008)

My complaint Exactly! They will tell you anything but according to other CPF'er they will e v e n t u a l l y deliver. I hope.


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## Size15's (Jan 21, 2008)

SureFire have redesigned their Clickie switches several times - the most significant can be determined by the colour of the plastic innards. Previously it was black, now it's off-white I believe.


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## da.gee (Jan 21, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> As Bullzeyebill pointed out, Surefire's momentary switches are the ones which are bulletproof reliable. And it's likely that the models with _those _switches are the ones getting sent out to government agencies and the military. But that's just speculation on my part.



Good point. It is the clickies that seem to fail with regularity. The classic twisties do not appear to have the problem. From that standpoint the SF twisty tailcaps could be deemed reliable and are most likely what the larger agencies are being supplied.


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## Schuey2002 (Jan 24, 2008)

Earlier this morning, FedEx dropped off a SF 6P Defender that I ordered from OpticsHQ. And after clicking the tailcap maybe 30 times or so, it simply stopped working. It would light up the P60 if you pushed real hard, but it wouldn't click. :sigh:

So, I immediately got on the phone with SF's Customer Service Dept. The gentleman on the phone was very friendly (this time) and just asked for my name and address. He said that a new one would be in the mail. :twothumbs

After reading this thread, I used the drops of oil remedy, and it fixed it right up. It now clicks like it ought to, and is as smooooooooooth as butter! I plan on using the replacement on one of my G2's. After I put a few drops of gun oil on its innards, of course!


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## jumping hansje (Jan 24, 2008)

xevious said:


> **** UPDATE ****
> 
> I just got off the phone with Surefire support. They're sending me a new tail cap switch for the U2. I asked if this switch is any different than the original and the support rep said that they've been recently redesigned and this will be the new one. The failure problem is now resolved, he said. Of course, I don't know if that's the usual schpeel, or if it's indeed an updated switch. Has anyone else here been told anything similar?
> 
> ...


 
I hope you are more lucky than me because they promissed me several times a new tail cap for my Surefire U2 and i am still waiting.
For over 6 months now.:thumbsdow
The only thing i get from Surefire is some explanation why it so hard and difficult just to put a tail cap in an envelope en send it to me.
I really hope that you are better of.


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## Schuey2002 (Jan 24, 2008)

6 months??!

I would have called them up after two weeks of waiting and asked where the part is. Give 'em a call! :sick2:


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## xevious (Jan 25, 2008)

Yeah, I'd call after the first couple of weeks have gone by and continue the cycle until you get the switch.

I ended up ordering a flared tail cap from Light Hound--makes the U2 tail stand--so, I'm only looking to get a good switch for "original parts" sake, and to allow me the chance to tinker with the original without concern for screwing it up completely.


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## 65535 (Jan 25, 2008)

This is part of the reason i got a SW01 for my U2, that being said I don't have any problems with my U2 clicky since I cleaned it up myself.


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## Schuey2002 (Jan 25, 2008)

Jumping hansje, do you live here in the US, or overseas? Maybe that has something to do with the delay. Just puting that out there.

It's possible that your order just got "lost in the shuffle", as it were. I would imagine that a company like SF receives hundreds upon hundreds of phone calls (not to mention all the emails) in a single business day. 

IHMO, the best thing to do would be just to pick up the phone and touch base with them. Let them know that you have been waiting X amount of months for a part to arrive, and that you still haven't received it yet. It couldn't hurt..


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## adamlau (Jan 25, 2008)

I have found the RPM McClicky :thumbsup: to be the best overall solution for those seeking seeking high reliability and tailstanding in a click-on tailcap. Beautifully machined, the RPM McClicky provides positive engagement and a wide base for freestanding candle use. I plan to replace all of my SureFire Classic click-on tailcaps with this custom masterpiece  . See Clickies for C Series, M3....


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## xevious (Jan 25, 2008)

adamlau said:


> I have found the RPM McClicky :thumbsup: to be the best overall solution for those seeking seeking high reliability and tailstanding in a click-on tailcap. Beautifully machined, the RPM McClicky provides positive engagement and a wide base for freestanding candle use. I plan to replace all of my SureFire Classic click-on tailcaps with this custom masterpiece  . See Clickies for C Series, M3....


Nice looking switch, if you don't mind dropping $60 on it. Looks like it's not an exact fit on the U2, requiring a spacer. The $34 one from Light Hound seems like a good deal, as long as it functions better than the OEM switch.


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## jumping hansje (Jan 25, 2008)

Schuey2002 said:


> Jumping hansje, do you live here in the US, or overseas? Maybe that has something to do with the delay. Just puting that out there.
> 
> It's possible that your order just got "lost in the shuffle", as it were. I would imagine that a company like SF receives hundreds upon hundreds of phone calls (not to mention all the emails) in a single business day.
> 
> IHMO, the best thing to do would be just to pick up the phone and touch base with them. Let them know that you have been waiting X amount of months for a part to arrive, and that you still haven't received it yet. It couldn't hurt..


 
They know all about it because the answered all my mails (overall 10 times), but the problem is that it is very difficult to put a tail cap in an enveloppe and send it to the Netherlands (Europe)

At the other hand other brands and shops (also in the USA) seems not to have that problem. So that is why i am very dissapointed in such a (expensive) brand like Surefire.:mecry:


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## Hitthespot (Jan 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire*



cmacclel said:


> Just as Stainless Steel said. 2 drops in each side of the switchs and it worked instantly!
> 
> Last night I was banging it on the bench hard enough to leave a mark on the maple top trying to dislodge the stuck plunger.
> 
> ...


 
I like reading a nice story with a happy ending. Mac, Glad to hear you solved the problem. Nice job StainlessSteel. Now I know to lube my U2 switch.....................when I get a U2! All my other SF have twisty's.

Bill


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## xevious (Jan 25, 2008)

"2 drops in each side of the switch"... where exactly on each side? I can guess on the battery side, but on the outer side I'm not sure. Isn't the external part of the switch waterproof?


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## mcmc (Jan 26, 2008)

I've been using Militec-1 to lube my knives, and also my lights. Will this probably work, you think, in the SF tailswitch?


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## 65535 (Jan 27, 2008)

I would personally think militec-1 would work great, IIRC it's a quick drying lube right? Dry lube is what you want, even if it goes on wet, just no aerosols.


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## Schuey2002 (Jan 27, 2008)

xevious said:


> "2 drops in each side of the switch"... where exactly on each side? I can guess on the battery side, but on the outer side I'm not sure. Isn't the external part of the switch waterproof?


On the clickie (Z59) tailcap on my 6PD, I put a drop of oil in each of the two little slots running down the length of the white part of the clickie mechanism... on the battery side. 

Yes, the other side (where the button is) is made waterproof by some sort of rubbery-looking flat washer..


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## Schuey2002 (Jan 27, 2008)

mcmc said:


> I've been using Militec-1 to lube my knives, and also my lights. Will this probably work, you think, in the SF tailswitch?


What 65535 said.

The only thing that I had on hand was Break Free (CLP), and it worked just fine.


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## flash_bang (Jan 28, 2008)

personally, I've never had any surefire switches fail on me.
with that said, I would feel less bad for surefire if they would sell all of their lights with twisties, and have the clicky as an option. this way you could have the reliability, but if you just *had* to have a clicky, you could get it. 

HAGO,
Flash


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## Schuey2002 (Jan 28, 2008)

Personally, I like that the fact that this one light, the 6P Defender, comes with a clickie. 

With a retail price of only $15 over the 6P Original, you get the crenelated bezel _and_ a Z59 clickie tailcap. SF wants $38 just for the Z59 clickie. And what about the crenelated bezel? How much would that sell for? $20-30?

Heck, if someone doesn't want one of their clickies, they can just buy the 6P Original. Having the choice is a good thing..


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## xevious (Jan 29, 2008)

So I finally got around to lubricating the tail cap switch. A little lithium grease did the trick and it works like a charm. That's all there was to it... No banging or diagonal pressure--the switch just started working properly again. Anyway, SF said they'd be sending me an updated switch, but I won't pressure them for it if it doesn't show up.

SOLID, man. Just SOLID. The U2. What a great light.


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## yaesumofo (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: Surefire*

Maybe a note from people with connections to the higherups that there are some people on the CPF who have some issues which should be addressed might be helpful.
Yaesumofo




Size15's said:


> Telling us doesn't solve anything (although it helps us learn more about products)
> 
> Have you told SureFire?
> 
> If you feel strongly perhaps writing a letter (rather than email or phone call) is a better means of helping them understand that you consider switch failure is unacceptable?


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## NA8 (Jan 30, 2008)

I'd recommend the thread title be changed to Surefire Tailcaps FIX.


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## Size15's (Jan 30, 2008)

*Re: Surefire*



yaesumofo said:


> Maybe a note from people with connections to the higherups that there are some people on the CPF who have some issues which should be addressed might be helpful.
> Yaesumofo


Seems a bit like meddling to me. I believe specific people experiencing specific issues should seek specific support so that their individual needs can be met. Looking at the overall body of issues is a different matter. Perhaps perceptions can be passed on but this doesn't help the individuals with issues unresolved.


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## ace0001a (Jan 31, 2008)

Yeah one of my 2 Z59s just failed on me last night...just stopped clicking and is now stuck on the on position. I called Surefire this morning, they took down my info and said they will send me out a new one. I've been told by one of my buddies that the process usually takes about 2 weeks. So if I don't see my replacement here in 2 weeks, I'll be giving them another call.


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## xevious (Jan 31, 2008)

Try a little lube... you just might be surprised.


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## xevious (Feb 1, 2008)

Well, Surefire delivered on their promise. UPS delivered to me a parcel containing the replacement tail cap. It is indeed redesigned. You can definitely see the difference when looking at the contact side with the two switches placed adjacent. The new one has a white plastic disc with three copper bands 60 degrees apart (like the Mercedes symbol), whereas the older one had a metal plate with various openings in it. The new switch has a very clean and crisp click action and the sound made is a little different, kind of metallic. Perhaps there are metal parts in place of plastic ones?

Externally, they look almost exactly the same. The only difference is the "www.surefire.com" imprint is a little thicker on the new one.

Anyway, kudos to Surefire for living up to their promise.


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## ace0001a (Feb 1, 2008)

xevious said:


> Try a little lube... you just might be surprised.



I'm sure this has already been mentioned: What kind of lube should I use and where on the Z59 do I apply it?


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 2, 2008)

I remember reading a thread about how to fix your L4 tailcap and remember something about using those little green washers from the bottom of a SF battery. Could someone remind me what they are used for? I think it was like to keep the plunger in line or something.....

-Evan


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## Numbers (Feb 2, 2008)

xevious said:


> Anyway, kudos to Surefire for living up to their promise.



Well, I should report that SF came through Friday a week ago with one of two promises made to me 7 weeks ago (aluminum G2L bezel). Therefore, I did not call them this week on my remaining (tail cap) issue, hoping it too would arrive. It didn't, I will follow up again when they return from the SS.


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## Monocrom (Feb 2, 2008)

ace0001a said:


> I'm sure this has already been mentioned: What kind of lube should I use and where on the Z59 do I apply it?


 
Hoppes gun oil is what StainlessSteel used, with great results.

One or two drops in every hole next to the tailcap spring. Roll the tailcap around in your hand, to help spread the oil. Then click away.


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 3, 2008)

Lightguy27 said:


> I remember reading a thread about how to fix your L4 tailcap and remember something about using those little green washers from the bottom of a SF battery. Could someone remind me what they are used for? I think it was like to keep the plunger in line or something.....
> 
> -Evan


 
Does anyone know? Who was that guy that started that thread on how to fix an L4's tailcap? 

-Evan


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## schiesz (Feb 3, 2008)

I wish this would fix my z57's. I've got two broken ones here (well a z57 and a z61) and waiting for the surefire replacements for several months now. I recently moved, so I guess its time for another call, to tell them my new address, since the forwarding will stop soon.

Oiling the switch does nothing for mine here. I tried the ring mod before, no love there either. I don't have the thread handy, but the idea was to put it between the two halves of the plastic switch body to give the clicker more room to do its thing. That fix worked for a lot of people, but nothing here. I'm just hoping now that I can get the newly designed switch with the white guts and get these problems behind me.

schiesz


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## 65535 (Feb 3, 2008)

sciesz, per GreenLed's free service thread, I will repair your tailcaps for the cost of postage both ways.


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## KenAnderson (Feb 4, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> I have probably touched 300+ Magswitches in my days and not had one failure. The 4 Surefires I have owned all of the tailswitches have died!
> 
> Mac


 
Waaaait a minute, you think you can do better????

Oh...wait a second...I've seen your work and it is better...

Nevermind...

:naughty:


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## adamlau (Feb 4, 2008)

schiesz said:


> I'm just hoping now that I can get the newly designed switch with the white guts and get these problems behind me.


Wishful thinking. I had one of the new switches with the new guts and it failed on me a month ago. And no, oiling it did not help one bit. What did help was an RPM McClicky  .


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## schiesz (Feb 4, 2008)

adamlau said:


> Wishful thinking. I had one of the new switches with the new guts and it failed on me a month ago. And no, oiling it did not help one bit. What did help was an RPM McClicky  .



I thought the RPM clickie was a C series, not e-series like a z57? Does this mean the z58/59 series is failure prone as well? 

schiesz


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 5, 2008)

Well if there are any tailcap fixers out there(65535) that would like these dozen or so batt ring I have, PM me your address and they're yours.

-Evan


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## Schuey2002 (Feb 13, 2008)

Well, my new Z59 arrived on Monday. It took 18 days to get here from the day that I called them. 

It definitely is different from the original tailcap that came with my 6PD. Not only are the internals different looking, but it feels like you are pushing on a much beefier clickie mechanism. It also sounds different from my other Z59. Not only is the new one louder, it also makes a distinctly different sound when you push the tailcap. You hear more of the spring, while the original Z59 has more of a snappy sound to it, which I prefer..


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## Wmpy (Apr 4, 2008)

I am also waiting for a replacement tailcap for my 6Pdefender. Today I took a paperclip and used it to direct some lock lube to the two slots on either side of the the pylon under the spring. It now works great!


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## schiesz (Apr 5, 2008)

I'm on about 4-5 months waiting for my replacement tailcap. My last call was about 2 months ago, so I guess its time for another call. During my last conversation ,they noted that I had ONE tailcap replaced in the past and didn't want to replace it again. I explained that I had DOZENS of surefire lights, so this was not the same tailcap, but I was surprised that it mattered at all. The CS rep told me to KEEP the old tailcaps in case I needed to demonstrate this in the future! I guess I can, but this seemed a bit funny to me. If they made a decent tailcap in the first place there would be no reason for any of this. I hope when I finally get the replacement (if I ever do) that it will be one of the new ones.

schiesz


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## Caligvla (Apr 5, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> Surefire REALLY NEEDS to do something about their switches and QC. They know they are horribe and STILL do nothing about them....what gives.
> 
> Mac



Well, they will do something, they will send you a replacement immediately, no fuss no muss...


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## schiesz (Apr 5, 2008)

Caligvla said:


> Well, they will do something, they will send you a replacement immediately, no fuss no muss...



HAHA, I guess you missed the post right before yours. IMMEDIATELY!? I guess we have a different sense of urgency, you and I.

Its just a shame I can't screw a McClicky into the z57 and fix it myself that way. I may need to take 65535 up on his offer after all.

schiesz


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## Caligvla (Apr 5, 2008)

schiesz said:


> HAHA, I guess you missed the post right before yours. IMMEDIATELY!? I guess we have a different sense of urgency, you and I.
> 
> Its just a shame I can't screw a McClicky into the z57 and fix it myself that way. I may need to take 65535 up on his offer after all.
> 
> schiesz



I would give them a call, anytime I have a request, it comes in the mail the next day... I only live about 40 miles away however... It shouldn't take months...


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## DaFABRICATA (Apr 5, 2008)

Surefire warrantee service has been good for me so far. My KL5 took about 1/2 a year to get back, but I also requested to have that specific bezel fixed and sent back. I got impatiant, called and told them to just send a replacement. I received the new KL5A instead and am much more happy. 
I had a Z58 go bad on me a few weeks ago and finally called about it. The rep. was very helpful. When I got my mail today there was 2 boxes from SF. One had the new design Z58 and the other had an MN21 that I had called about instaflashing on me a while back. 
I also notice the more "springy" sound compared to the old "click".
I took the new one apart to put my aluminum tailcap shroud on and noticed the "new design" is one piece that stays together, as the old one comes apart easily. I've had a few problems with the Z57's from the e-series, but have been able to take them aprt, stretch a spring, or add some lube and get them working fine.....that is, all but one.

I agree that calling is the way to go as opposed to email.


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## Taboot (Apr 5, 2008)

Caligvla said:


> I would give them a call, anytime I have a request, it comes in the mail the next day... I only live about 40 miles away however... It shouldn't take months...


 
So far, it has taken 1 email, 2 phone calls and 2 months and still no tailcap, which broke the day after I bought it...

I love SF, but I haven't experienced the top notch customer service that others have...

It's probably an isolated case though, as so many others have very high praise for their service.


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## Caligvla (Apr 5, 2008)

Taboot said:


> So far, it has taken 1 email, 2 phone calls and 2 months and still no tailcap, which broke the day after I bought it...
> 
> I love SF, but I haven't experienced the top notch customer service that others have...
> 
> It's probably an isolated case though, as so many others have very high praise for their service.



Which cap do you need? I might have an extra...


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## Taboot (Apr 5, 2008)

Caligvla said:


> Which cap do you need? I might have an extra...


 
It's for an E2E, but the last guy at SF I talked to said he would see to it that it was shipped. I'll give them another week before I try again. Fortunately, I have plenty of other lights 

Thanks though


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## JNewell (Apr 5, 2008)

Parts that are in stock come quickly. Parts that aren't...well, you wait until they are back in stock. SF seems to assemble lights, and make the parts that make up lights, in batches. Hit the cycle at the wrong point and you can be looking at a six month wait - at least that's happened to me a couple of times. Usually service is very fast, though.


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## SureAddicted (Apr 6, 2008)

Lightguy27 said:


> Does anyone know? Who was that guy that started that thread on how to fix an L4's tailcap?
> 
> -Evan




G'day Evan. I think the thread your after is this one.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31187

Steve


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## schiesz (Apr 8, 2008)

Called Surefire today about my z57 i've been waiting 5 months on, and guess what? They say it will be delivered TODAY! They said they had been back-ordered for all this time and finally came in on the 2nd. Not sure if I believe that they haven't had z57's for 5 months, but if it comes today i'll be ok. Also, they are sending me a z58 to replace one I have with a dent that keeps it from screwing on. 

After so long I had pretty much given up on their support of this. Looks like maybe they are going to make up for it right now. 

schiesz


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## importculture (Apr 8, 2008)

How long ago did you purchase your lights from surefire? I've been a supplier for surefire in the past and have owned and still own hundreds of surefire lights. I've never had any switch failures from their lights before 2006. There was one batch of E2D's that had switch problems. I personaly had 3 with this problem. I opened up the tail switch and found the spring was out of place and I think a plastic piece was reversed. A friend who is also a current surefire supplier here had similar problems recently usually with batches and not so much at random. I do know that surefire has exceptional customer service and believe their willingness to replace failures and defects is definetly worth the price of their lights. I too hope they can remedy their problems with their switches. But I hope this doesn't turn anyone off of surefires.


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## schiesz (Apr 8, 2008)

Mine are from anywhere between 2005 and present, but people on CPF have been having problems with z57 clickies since 2003 or before. Probably about the same time they were released from Surefire.

schiesz


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## Monocrom (Apr 9, 2008)

importculture said:


> How long ago did you purchase your lights from surefire? I've been a supplier for surefire in the past and have owned and still own hundreds of surefire lights. I've never had any switch failures from their lights before 2006. There was one batch of E2D's that had switch problems. I personaly had 3 with this problem. I opened up the tail switch and found the spring was out of place and I think a plastic piece was reversed. A friend who is also a current surefire supplier here had similar problems recently usually with batches and not so much at random. I do know that surefire has exceptional customer service and believe their willingness to replace failures and defects is definetly worth the price of their lights. I too hope they can remedy their problems with their switches. But I hope this doesn't turn anyone off of surefires.


 
If you search for old threads about the issue, you'll find that Surefire clickies have actually developed a very bad reputation for failure. (The momentary switches are regarded as 100% reliable). 

I have 8 Surefires myself. Half with forward-clickie switches. All of them are reliable. But many other CPFers have experienced premature failures. Surefire is apparently aware of the problem, as they just send out new clickies whenever someone tells them that they encountered a problem. Another CPFer, named StainlessSteel, found that the problem is a rather easy fix. A couple of drops of Gun oil in a couple of holes inside the clickies causes them to work normally.

Still, there are some CPFers who are wondering why Surefire could not have just used a couple of drops of Gun oil.


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## Taboot (Apr 9, 2008)

Taboot said:


> So far, it has taken 1 email, 2 phone calls and 2 months and still no tailcap, which broke the day after I bought it...
> 
> I love SF, but I haven't experienced the top notch customer service that others have...
> 
> It's probably an isolated case though, as so many others have very high praise for their service.


 
Mine finally came. It appears to be an improved design. It has a metal ring around the three plastic spring retainers. This should help prevent the plastic from breaking, which is what happened to mine.


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## LumenMan (Apr 9, 2008)

Hopefully I'll get the replacement tailcap for my 6P Defender soon  I would like the light back in action soon since it's my duty light.


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## schiesz (Apr 9, 2008)

Well my new z57 came like they said it would, and it is definitely the new design. It is also the loudest clickie i've ever heard. I'll take a loud working one over a quiet non-working one anyday though.

schiesz


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## greenstuffs (Apr 9, 2008)

schiesz said:


> Well my new z57 came like they said it would, and it is definitely the new design. It is also the loudest clickie i've ever heard. I'll take a loud working one over a quiet non-working one anyday though.
> 
> schiesz


 
Glad it work out for you.


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## Wmpy (Apr 9, 2008)

I got my 6PD tailcap yesterday from Surefire. A week or two is all it took.


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## Wassernaut (Apr 10, 2008)

Well, I'm another Surefire owner with a busted tail cap. Bah! Humbug! I received an E1e for Christmas, and it lasted all the way to March. I picked it up and clicked it on - worked perfectly, tried to click it off - nuttin! I had to make it a twistie. I e-mailed Surefire and related my misery and got an almost immediate response, saying they were shipping me a replacement - guaranteed to work just like the last one. Gulp! 

Larry


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## Federal LG (Apr 10, 2008)




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## dano101 (Apr 10, 2008)

hey i dont know if this was covered on here, but are the problem with ur clickies mainly on the lights that come with clickies? or on the sold alone clickies as well. i was just thinking that out of the almost 10 surefires ive owned, 4 came with clickies, 6 others (6p, c2,m2, m3t etc) had clickies later put on them. the 4 that came factory clicky all failed btwn 1 day and 1 month. the ones that were not clicky from the factory have never failed me


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## dmz (Apr 12, 2008)

There are numerous post about bad z59 clickies but what about the z49? Are the z49 clicky tailcaps more reliable?

z49 clicky tailcap: 
http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/z49_thumb01.jpg


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## wfbont007 (Aug 10, 2008)

I bought a Surefire G2ZLed about 3 weeks ago. Today the tailcap broke and it won't allow me to push it in. I will be calling Surefire in the morning.


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## LumenMan (Aug 10, 2008)

Welcome to CPF ! :wave:

Surefire has world class customer service, so I'm confident that they will take good care of you. I humbly suggest that you call on Tuesday since Monday's are the worst day for customer service reps


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## climberkid (Aug 10, 2008)

huh, i never thought about that. all the things that go wrong on the weekends build up on monday. good thinking!


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## LumenMan (Aug 10, 2008)

climberkid said:


> huh, i never thought about that. all the things that go wrong on the weekends build up on monday. good thinking!


 
I'm just sharing my experiences from having to wait for prolonged periods of time while listening to "musack" or "promo" spots :shakehead


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## Monocrom (Aug 10, 2008)

wfbont007 said:


> I bought a Surefire G2ZLed about 3 weeks ago. Today the tailcap broke and it won't allow me to push it in. I will be calling Surefire in the morning.


 
That model comes with a momentary / twist constant-on switch. 

Did you buy a brand new G2ZL or a used one. If it's the latter, the previous owner might have swapped out the tailcap.


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## fishmanstan (Aug 10, 2008)

I've had my E1L for about a year now, and currently have the 3rd clicky installed. Shortly after I got it, a white plastic piece broke and came out when I changed the battery. Called Surefire and received a replacement. About 2 weeks ago, the same thing happened and I just received the new tail cap last week. This tail cap appears slightly different than the first 2. The white plastic piece that keeps breaking has been replaced with a black plastic piece. It has also been upgraded with a metal reinforcement. We'll see how long this clicky will last.


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## wfbont007 (Aug 11, 2008)

Bought a brand new G2ZLed from LAPolicegear and the tailcap breaks weeks later! Will call Surefire tomorrow for sure!


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## Kestrel (Aug 11, 2008)

Originally Posted by *da.gee* 

 ... What might it be in the quantities sold to government agencies. Perhaps these agencies have boxes of spare tailcaps in the warehouse and individual buyers are just chump change.



Monocrom said:


> As Bullzeyebill pointed out, Surefire's momentary switches are the ones which are bulletproof reliable. And it's likely that the models with _those _switches are the ones getting sent out to government agencies and the military. But that's just speculation on my part.


 

Actually, I work for a US Government agency, and in our warehouse are Rayovac-style plastic flashlights (made in China). Maybe I'm in the wrong agency...:thinking:


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## kts (Aug 11, 2008)

A highprice flashlight like surefire shouldnt have any issues with faulty tailcaps, an excellent CS doesnt help when youre left in the dark :thumbsdow


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## Monocrom (Aug 11, 2008)

kts said:


> A highprice flashlight like surefire shouldnt have any issues with faulty tailcaps, an excellent CS doesnt help when youre left in the dark :thumbsdow


 
No company is perfect, but it is rather strange that this is even an issue.... considering that there's an easy fix to the solution.

For those who may have missed it, and with much thanks to StainlessSteel.

LINK ~ https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2259027&post=34


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## cmacclel (Aug 11, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> No company is perfect, but it is rather strange that this is even an issue.... considering that there's an easy fix to the solution.
> 
> For those who may have missed it, and with much thanks to StainlessSteel.


 

I can't believe you would not think this is an issue. Yes there is a fix for this it it HAS worked for me but lets not forget Surefire's are supposed to be at the TOP of the food chain in the lighting world. I could maybe accept this if you where purchasing a cheap $10 light but Surefire's are among the most expensive non custom lights produced.

I have ownly owned a handful of Surefire lights that saw practically ZERO use. Half of the tailcaps failed to operate normally without adding a couple drops of oil. The fact is this high failure rate is far from acceptable. 

Mac


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## Monocrom (Aug 11, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> I can't believe you would not think this is an issue. Yes there is a fix for this it it HAS worked for me but lets not forget Surefire's are supposed to be at the TOP of the food chain in the lighting world. I could maybe accept this if you where purchasing a cheap $10 light but Surefire's are among the most expensive non custom lights produced.
> 
> I have ownly owned a handful of Surefire lights that saw practically ZERO use. Half of the tailcaps failed to operate normally without adding a couple drops of oil. The fact is that is not acceptable.
> 
> Mac


 
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I guess my post was not clear enough. Yes, I do feel that this is an issue. And a major one at that, considering Surefire's reputation and what they charge for lights.

What I meant was, considering that there is a very simple solution to the problem, one that Surefire could easily implament themselves before shipping out assembled lights with clickies, _it is rather stange that this is even an issue. _It's an issue that should not even exist, since Surefire could easily fix it, at the factory.


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## cmacclel (Aug 11, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Sorry for the misunderstanding. I guess my post was not clear enough. Yes, I do feel that this is an issue. And a major one at that, considering Surefire's reputation and what they charge for lights.
> 
> What I meant was, considering that there is a very simple solution to the problem, one that Surefire could easily implament themselves before shipping out assembled lights with clickies, _it is rather stange that this is even an issue. _It's an issue that should not even exist, since Surefire could easily fix it, at the factory.


 
I agree  Sorry for the Misunderstanding. It is pretty amusing that a couple drops of oil fixes them almost 100% of the time 

Mac


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## Monocrom (Aug 11, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> I agree  Sorry for the Misunderstanding. It is pretty amusing that a couple drops of oil fixes them almost 100% of the time
> 
> Mac


 
No worries. 

And you're right. It is amusing, just a bit.


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## isneyk (Aug 12, 2008)

Was the E2DL mentioned among the lights with faulty tailcaps? 
I've gone thru the whole thread, just making sure I did not miss some details.

I have the above mentioned model incoming.
I'm just a bit anxious with the tailcap problems you guys had...:sweat:


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## Monocrom (Aug 12, 2008)

isneyk said:


> Was the E2DL mentioned among the lights with faulty tailcaps?
> I've gone thru the whole thread, just making sure I did not miss some details.
> 
> I have the above mentioned model incoming.
> I'm just a bit anxious with the tailcap problems you guys had...:sweat:


 
It's not one model vs. another one. Surefire's momentary switches are rock solid. Their clickies have been problematic in the past.


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## NoFair (Aug 12, 2008)

Just got a replacement clickie for my old E1L from SF. The new one is different on the inside and seems sturdier. 

Managed to repair the old one while the replacement was in the mail so now I have a, hopefully not needed, spare

Sverre


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## precisionworks (Aug 12, 2008)

> Shortly after I got it (E1L), a white plastic piece broke and came out when I changed the battery.


Exactly what happened to my E1L, followed two weeks later by a broken white piece in the E2L. Both were new in package lights that were less than a month old. Telephoned SF & the rep said two redesigned switches would be sent out. Called again two weeks later & another rep said they are shipping the new switches as quickly as possible. Got the switches a week after that. Oil may resolve some issues, but no oil in the world will repair broken internal parts. 



> Surefire REALLY NEEDS to do something about their switches and QC.


+1

Perhaps they feel that a no charge replacement is a satisfactory way to resolve the problem, and it does have the same effect as a Band-Aide - the bleeding stops. It would seem after this many failures (just the ones on CPF, which represent only a small percentage of all SF lights sold) that the company would redesign the switch.


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## Size15's (Aug 12, 2008)

SureFire have redesigned their clickie switches - the current version with the metal collar innards is the result of a long journey of product evolution and improvement. Too long... perhaps, but I believe they've made a breakthrough with the current design.

Al


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## frankiej (Aug 13, 2008)

Add me to the list of failures. I dropped my E1L from waist height on concrete, opened up the tailcap, and was greeted by 3-4 small broken plastic pieces, a spring and a little metal plunger falling into my lap. Unbelievable! This is totally unacceptable from a flashlight costing $100, from a company that touts itself as having such tough products.

Unrelated, but I dropped my G-2 with a P-60L drop-in in a similar fashion, and it failed! This, coupled with reading the posts in this thread, have greatly soured me on Surefire. If I'm paying that much, and buying from a company that markets itself as having the toughest lights in the world, they had better work.

Sure they fix it for you right away. Good thing. 

I've three Surefires (E1L, G2 & 6P), and have had 2 out of three fail! I own over 70 lights, Surefires being the most expensive, ranging down to $3 bargain bin jobbies, and the Surefires are the only ones that have been unable to survive a bit of normal abuse.
:thumbsdow


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## monkeyboy (Aug 13, 2008)

Size15's said:


> SureFire have redesigned their clickie switches - the current version with the metal collar innards is the result of a long journey of product evolution and improvement. Too long... perhaps, but I believe they've made a breakthrough with the current design.
> 
> Al



That's certainly good news. Is it possible to tell the difference between a new and old model without having to open it up? How can we get hold of the new tailcaps?


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## Size15's (Aug 13, 2008)

monkeyboy said:


> That's certainly good news.


Old news. They've been out as standard on the E1B since it was released and on the dual output E1L and E2L, and the E2DL too.



monkeyboy said:


> Is it possible to tell the difference between a new and old model without having to open it up?


It's obvious by removing the TailCap from the body and looking inside at the contact assembly. It does not need to be 'opened up' (disassembled) if that's what you mean?



monkeyboy said:


> How can we get hold of the new tailcaps?


I guess the most reliable way is to order a Z57 (natural HA), or Z61 (Black HA) directly from SureFire.


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## monkeyboy (Aug 13, 2008)

Thanks Size15's. I guess I must have the old models then since I've had them for a while. Are there also new models of the Z58 and Z59?


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## Lunal_Tic (Aug 13, 2008)

Anyone have pix of the new vs. old tailcaps?

-LT


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