# How Do Automatic Watches Work???



## mattz357

I suppose a better time to ask this question might have been last week before I bought one on ebay, but it's coming from overseas so I still have time to find out the answer before I get it. I bought a Seiko 5 automatic watch, and can't find any info on Seiko's website for that series at all. The Kinetic I just got my dad is pretty cool, just shake/move your arm to wind it, but there is no battery per se. The auto says you don't have to do anything and there is no battery, so what powers it? Does anyone have one of these watches, and what do you think of it if you do? Thanks in advance for any help, and here is a link to the one I bought if that helps.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8950...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1


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## JasonC8301

I have a black face military Seiko 5 automatic I purchased from CPF member Wong about a year ago. I use it as my work watch because it has no batteries to die. 

http://www.timezone.com/library/wwatchfaq/wwatchfaq631668591017665598


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## Lee1959

It works basically like your Kinetic, by the movement of your arm. The big difference is that instead of charging a battery, it is winding the watchs mainspring, some automatics can also be handwound. I am guessing your watch will have the 7S26 movement and that is not handwound. Some watches have a clear back so you can see how they work. There is a little rotor that spins and winds the watch . Your seiko, from my experience with several I have, should run about 30 hours after you take it off before it stops, give or take a bit depending upon how active you are.


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## mattz357

Excellent info, thanks!


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## bjn70

Automatics have a weight in the back of the watch, and as you move your arm around the weight swings around like a pendulum. The swinging of the weight winds the mainspring. The Seiko5's that I have seen all have display backs so you can see the weight and see it move as you move the watch around.

I have 8 of the seiko automatics, plus 5 of other brands. I switch my watches around and don't wear any one watch for a long time, so I have to treat mine differently from the average person. Once an automatic is fully wound, most of them will run around 40 hours after you take them off. Fully wound is the key, when I wear a watch for 16 hours or so, at my office, at home on the couch, etc., I don't wind it very much. After wearing one for a week maybe it is closer to fully wound, but when I start wearing an automatic I try to keep wearing it fairly consistently so it will keep running. I know I can't wear it half a day, take it off, and expect it to be running the next day. I could probably get away with this if I wore it week after week though.

Some people that wear automatics have electric winders. You put the watch on the winder, which has a timer to run it occasionally, and that keeps it wound even if you aren't wearing it consistently, or maybe you have several different watches that you want to keep running so you can grab the one that you want at any particular time and it is ready to go.

Of course quartz watches are more convenient, because you don't have to wind them, but mine have a habit of eating batteries so when I get ready to wear one I frequently find it dead and I can't wear it until I get a new battery. So they have their downsides too. The Seiko Kinetic is a better design since as you wear it it keeps itself charged, but I have heard of lots of problems with their internal batteries needing replacement for high prices. Another alternative that is probably better yet is the Citizen EcoDrive, which uses solar power to charge its battery. Actually I'm wearing one of those right now.

People who like automatics like them because they are little marvels of machinery. If your watch has a display back, you can even look in there and watch the heartbeat- the balance wheel, fork and escape wheel, as well as looking at all of the other gears. I just don't get as much pleasure out of wearing a quartz watch.


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## CLHC

Pretty much what the others stated above. But of course—

Automatic refers to a watch movement that consists of a self-winding mechanism, which allows the watch to run on its own without batteries. The advantage to this is that batteries are not required for the watch to run. The disadvantage to it is that the watch should be serviced every few years to make sure it runs smoothly. The automatics give the appearance of "sweeping" across the dial. Hence the term "sweep second hand."

A sweeping second hand refers to a second hand that sweeps smoothly instead of ticking once every second. Basically, its movement consists of a bunch of very tiny, rapid ticks that combine to make it look like the hand is sweeping smoothly. All automatic watches have a sweeping second hand, and all quartz watches have a ticking second hand.

I'm more than sure others will give a better detail than me since I'm just pretty much guessing. :thinking:

Enjoy!


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## ACMarina

I know a young man who had a rather fake Rolex automatic that's been running for at least 4 years now with no ill effects. Never been serviced..


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## CLHC

Speaking of bogus Rolex watches, there's a "high-end" replica Rolex that are Swiss Made of Swiss Manufactured parts that go into these. And then there's the Japan Made automatic movements that make up these bogus Rolex also.

They're not inexpensive either.


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## GadgetTravel

In the period post WWII until the 1970s automatic watches were the most commonly available type. Early timepieces, watches or clocks, were wound by hand, or a key or some other device. As said above the winding would tighten a spring, storing energy to drive the watch. Im not sure if this is the first of what we would call an automatic watch, but it is one of the earliest:

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/c...ll/&_IXimg=ps340591.jpg&submit-button=summary

It was designed by Abraham Louis Breguet in 1787. It has a diamond shaped platinum pendulum that swung around due to the movement of the watch and wound the spring. He made a number of these, either this one or another I saw in a museum in London was made for Marie Antoinnette. 
Today those are called rotors and are larger and often cover half of the back of the watch.

If you look at this page you will see a fairly high end current day automatic watch movement:

http://www.timezone.com/library/archives/archives631659995506141761

Scroll down about halfway you and will see pictures of the movement of the watch. You can see a roughly half circle shaped piece with engraving on it. It is a stainless steel plate with a 22K pink gold plate bolted underneath it. That is the rotor. The gold adds weight. As the wearers wrist moves the rotor swings around and this drives the gears that wind the watch.


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## hivoltage

Some autos have a solar cell that runs the watch. If I stay out of the sun too long, the second hand will quit turning to conserve energy...but that takes several weeks of the watch seeing no light. The face of the watch is the solar cell.


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## GadgetTravel

hivoltage said:


> Some autos have a solar cell that runs the watch. If I stay out of the sun too long, the second hand will quit turning to conserve energy...but that takes several weeks of the watch seeing no light. The face of the watch is the solar cell.



That isnt an automatic watch. Automatic watches are mechanical watches that are automatically wound. I have one like you describe, a Citizen Eco Drive, but it is a quartz, not a mechanical watch.


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## markdi

any watch that has hands that move and is solar/movement powered is a automatic to me.


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## senecaripple

anything that dont require manual movement to wind is also automatic to me. like the transmission in a car. batteries, self-winding are automatic to me. i dont need to do anything to keep it running!


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## leukos

I think we are confusing industry terminology with colloquial usage here....


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## OldGreyGuy

mattz357 said:


> The auto says you don't have to do anything and there is no battery, so what powers it?


Looking at the photos on the link you provided the last phaoto of the back of the watch shows a half-circular disc attached to the central mount of the watch, on it you will see the words, "TWENTY-ONE JEWELS" and, "SEIKO TIME CORP 7S26A". This is the part the swings around when you move the watch from side to side winding the spring that powers the clockwork mechanism.

According to the listing it says it is a "SEIKO MENS AUTOMATIC SEE THRU STEEL WATCH SNK601K", so you should be able to see it working when you get the watch.


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## GadgetTravel

leukos said:


> I think we are confusing industry terminology with colloquial usage here....



Right, an automatic watch is a very specific kind of watch and it isnt solar or battery powered. Some may call such watches that but it is simply incorrect and confusing in terms of a watch. The term predates the development of electric watches and isnt applies to them. All electric watches, or quartz watches dont need winding so there is no distinction between manual and automatic. The distinction is only used on mechanical (spring and gear powered) watches.


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## CLHC

GadgetTravel said:


> The distinction is only used on mechanical (spring and gear powered) watches.


:touche:


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## Lee1959

Automatics, Kinetics, Ecodrives are all VERy different mechanisms and not termed the same in the least. Look on any website that sells watches, talk to ANY watch person and you will find this out. They are not the same, and it is not simply confusing ANYTHING. It is the correct and proper terminology plain and simple.

Automatics (short for automatic wind) have been around since the 50s, perhaps earlier. Battery powered watches in whatever guise, be it kinetic, quartz replaceable battery, and Ecodrives are relative newcomers and not grouped with automatics, period.


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## stockae92

right, that's no confusion of mechanical and quartz

mechanical is all machine parts and powered by the unwinding of main spring (maybe seiko spring drive broke the rule  )

quartz is powered by battery/cell, one way or another

mechanical can be automatic or manual wind. auto can be winded by your wrist motion (which has been explained already) and manual needs to be winded by turning the crown manually (swinging the watch won't wind it at all cause it doesn't have a rotor to wind the main spring)

quartz can be primary battery operated or rechargeable cell (can be by rechargeable source, themo difference (<-- eco drive themo), solar or induction (<-- kinetic))


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## JLavino

Its all about the Jewels, the more jewels the better. The jewels are what keep the movement synhronized. The more jewels the better the timepiece keeps time. As for looks its all in the eye of the beholder. 

I however own swiss movement (battery operated).


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## Manzerick

How many jewels does it take to make a sweeping second hand? I have seen 27 and I believe 31 in a Rolex. 


Would 21 produce a sweep?


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## JLavino

I thought the higher end sweeps were 32 jewels or higher, I could be wrong. I have seen 32 or 34 jewels in the higher ends watches. I think the avg jewels are 20-24. 

Justin


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## warpdrive

senecaripple said:


> anything that dont require manual movement to wind is also automatic to me. like the transmission in a car. batteries, self-winding are automatic to me. i dont need to do anything to keep it running!


 
But you should use the accepted terminology to avoid confusion.

Watches are "automatic" because they wind themselves and are mechanical (i.e. auto winding) You'll see "automatic" on the dial of the watch only if this is the case. 

Don't confuse the issue, because in most people minds, automatic is a specific type of watch. Nobody else in the watch industry calls the Kinetics or Eco Drives automatic including the manufacturer themselves.

Now, what to call the other types is a good question. I have called them auto-quartz, or self-charging quartz.


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## warpdrive

JLavino said:


> I thought the higher end sweeps were 32 jewels or higher, I could be wrong. I have seen 32 or 34 jewels in the higher ends watches. I think the avg jewels are 20-24.
> Justin


The max number of jewels on most watches today is around 23, even very high grade ones, with less than 20 typically.

It used to be that makers added more jewels because it sounded more impressive, but these days, that numbers game isn't played. Of course, on some watches with extra features like stopwatch, more jewels are needed and add up fast.


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## watt4

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question285.htm


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## JLavino

Yea that sounds right. I know Ive seen high end autos in the 30 range. I believe companies like zenith and rolex use around 23-27 on avg. Chrono autos as well. Got to love a good Automatic. 





warpdrive said:


> The max number of jewels on most watches today is around 23, even very high grade ones, with less than 20 typically.
> 
> It used to be that makers added more jewels because it sounded more impressive, but these days, that numbers game isn't played. Of course, on some watches with extra features like stopwatch, more jewels are needed and add up fast.


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## GadgetTravel

JLavino said:


> Its all about the Jewels, the more jewels the better. The jewels are what keep the movement synhronized. The more jewels the better the timepiece keeps time. As for looks its all in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> I however own swiss movement (battery operated).



Not exactly. Jewels dont "synchronize" stuff in a watch. They really are just better ways to serve in points that get friction and wear. They function as bearings, rollers, places for the ends of axles to rest, bars that lock gears and that sort of thing. There isnt a great correlation between number of jewels and quality. There is a correlation at least within the products of a given manufacturer for there to be more jewels in more complicated watches. For instance I looked at the Patek Philippe web site and they list the number of jewels for each of their watches. 

Their manually wound watches with an hour, minute and second hand have 18 jewels. Their automatics with hour, minute, second and date have 29 jewels. Their manual wind dual time zone watches have 18 jewels and the manual wind chronographs only have 24 jewels while their automatics with moon phase and day, date and month calendar have 34-36 jewels. Their automatic chronographs with annual calendar have 40 jewels.

Even some of their very complicated watches dont have many jewels if manual wound. Their manual wind perpetual calendar, moonphase chrono has 24 jewels but their automatic perpetual calendar with moonphase (no chrono) has 39 jewels. Their manual wound tourbillons with perpetual calendars and minute repeater have 28 jewels. Their two most complicated watches, the Celestial and Sky-Moon tourbillon (which has minute repeater and lots of other complications) have 44 and 55 jewels respectively. A Sky-Moon tourbillon was sold a couple years ago in London for 600,000 POUNDS, or about a million bucks. A manual wind tourbillon with perpetual calendar and moonphase with 28 jewels would probably go for about a quarter mil, if not more, while a 36 jewel automatic perpetual calander would probably go for about $40,000. The extra jewels may not add to the price or quality.


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## GadgetTravel

Manzerick said:


> How many jewels does it take to make a sweeping second hand? I have seen 27 and I believe 31 in a Rolex.
> 
> 
> Would 21 produce a sweep?



I have seen older watches with as few as 7 jewels. A simple, current, ultra high grade watch with just hours, minutes and a sweep second hand can have as few as 18 if manually wound and an automatic with date and sweep second hand about 29.


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