# Lumens factory A2 lamp assembly



## batman (Nov 30, 2007)

Anyone know when this is going to be released yet?


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## leukos (Nov 30, 2007)

I haven't heard anything else about it, just that it LF was considering making one. I'm still looking forward to it if they do.


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## Brozneo (Nov 30, 2007)

I haven't heard anything yet about it, but I'm also looking forward to the release (if there is one!) I'd love to get my A2 brighter (with the same runtime!)


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## KevinL (Nov 30, 2007)

I would love one as well!! The A2 is nice, just that it's not bright enough


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## SunStar (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm in for one if we can bump brightness and / or throw.:devil:


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## LED61 (Dec 1, 2007)

I'll be in for five even if runtime suffers in favor of brightness.


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## Radio (Dec 1, 2007)

SunStar said:


> I'm in for one if we can bump brightness and / or throw.:devil:



:thumbsup:


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## Radio (Dec 1, 2007)

double post


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## ampdude (Dec 1, 2007)

LED61 said:


> I'll be in for five even if runtime suffers in favor of brightness.




My kind of guy! :thumbsup:

:twothumbs


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Dec 2, 2007)

LED61 said:


> I'll be in for five even if runtime suffers in favor of brightness.


HAHA!! I'm in too!


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## Ty_Bower (Dec 2, 2007)

I think the real win would be for a lamp with the same brightness and runtime as the stock lamp, just without the $25 price tag. :|


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## IcantC (Dec 2, 2007)

It's already a nice light. Being just a tad brighter would be awesome.


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## LED61 (Dec 2, 2007)




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## [email protected] (Dec 4, 2007)

Althought we are interested in making this, but we realize the difficulty in making the assembly because the measurements needs to be very precise.

So we are still speculating on this project at the moment.


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## KevinL (Dec 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Althought we are interested in making this, but we realize the difficulty in making the assembly because the measurements needs to be very precise.
> 
> So we are still speculating on this project at them moment.
> 
> We will release something new next month though, so keep checking back.



Cool :thumbsup:

Looking forward to it! My E1e looks so much better with the EO bulb.. can't wait for an A2 EO


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## dudemar (Dec 4, 2007)

At least we know it's in the planning stages!:naughty::twothumbs

Dudemar


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## KROMATICS (Dec 4, 2007)

I think it's more in the "we're considering it" stage.


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## [email protected] (Dec 4, 2007)

KROMATICS,

The lamp is the easy part, we can come up with one within a week.

The problem is the base, the stock one uses plastic and metal plates. We have to come up with a different base that holds the lamp well, fitting and contact must be good as well. Which means that the base will have almost no engineering tolerance, this makes it difficult for mass production. 

So we have been trying to come up with a good solution, we have tried a couple designs already, but until I see something that I am satisfied with, R&D will have to keep hitting me with new designs.


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## DanielG (Dec 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> KROMATICS,
> 
> The lamp is the easy part, we can come up with one within a week.
> 
> ...



Well, if you want a guinea pig just let me know. I'll be glad to try 'em out :twothumbs


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## IcantC (Dec 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> KROMATICS,
> 
> The lamp is the easy part, we can come up with one within a week.
> 
> ...


 

Good to see you guys are trying . I know you guys work on Xenon and incans only, but there might be a market for Aviatrix style higher powered LEDs for the A2 .


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## DanielG (Dec 4, 2007)

IcantC said:


> Good to see you guys are trying . I know you guys work on Xenon and incans only, but there might be a market for Aviatrix style higher powered LEDs for the A2 .



YES! White two stage with a new primary bulb. Put me in for one!


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## IcantC (Dec 4, 2007)

DanielG said:


> YES! White two stage with a new primary bulb. Put me in for one!


 

Low LED, high LED and bright incan. Wow would be sweet!


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## DanielG (Dec 4, 2007)

IcantC said:


> Low LED, high LED and bright incan. Wow would be sweet!



Exactly :candle: :thumbsup:


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## rtt (Dec 4, 2007)

DanielG said:


> Exactly :candle: :thumbsup:


 
+1:kiss:


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## Dr.K (Dec 4, 2007)

Oh, my, this almost seems Sci-Fi, someone bump this when it becomes a reality.:devil:


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## ampdude (Dec 5, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> KROMATICS,
> 
> The lamp is the easy part, we can come up with one within a week.
> 
> ...




Awesome! Take your time we would certainly rather wait longer than have something hurried out the door. Hopefully Atomic Chicken will get back on track with the Aviatrix ring production and then the A2 will be quite a light indeed!!!


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## KROMATICS (Dec 5, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> KROMATICS,
> 
> The lamp is the easy part, we can come up with one within a week.
> 
> ...



Given that the A2 is regulated can it even be made brighter or is it simply a matter of more efficient bulb design?


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## bfg9000 (Dec 5, 2007)

The Willie Hunt regulator is a voltage (not current) regulator, which is why the M6-R and Powerstik can each run various amperage bulbs. As long as the design limit of the components used (and the ~2.5A limit for primary 123As) is not exceeded, it should be perfectly possible to trade runtime for more brightness.

That said, I'd rather they were driven hard to about 10 hrs life for maximum efficiency and the same runtime (may as well put that soft-starting regulator to good use). For that kind of output and real "hotwire" color temperature I'd be glad to pay _three times_ the price of stock MA02s and suspect that many others feel the same way (that is, same price as SF but one third the lifespan).


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## Spence (Dec 5, 2007)

I'd like to see its' output in the 120 lumens range, how do others feel?


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## FlashSpyJ (Dec 5, 2007)

even though I would want my A2 to be brighter, Im not sure I would like a shorter runtime with the bulb. I cant get any RCR123 batts in mine, the tube is to narrow, I couldnt even squeese them down whitout the label. So shorter runtime with regular CR123 batts wouldnt be very ideal for me. I tried the A2 in my back yard last night, it really hasnt a waow effect on me, its a great light for its purposes, that would be camping for me, low light needs most of the time and decent high when needed. Us flashaholics rarely just carry one light anyway, so we could just bring another light for more power say a 9P with P91 bulb, ok ok its not regulated...But atleast I can get RCR batts in my 9P


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## ampdude (Dec 5, 2007)

bfg9000 said:


> That said, I'd rather they were driven hard to about 10 hrs life for maximum efficiency and the same runtime (may as well put that soft-starting regulator to good use).



My thoughts exactly. The soft start alone increases the bulb lifespan, might as well push it hard when it's running. Not ridiculous, but harder and more efficient than the MA02.


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## bondr006 (Dec 5, 2007)

*Lumens Factory and SF A2*

I thought some of you might find this interesting and encouraging. I sent Lumens Factoryan email asking if they will produce a higher power replacement bulb for the A2. Here is the correspondence....



* Hello. My name is Rob Bond and I have purchased many of your high output and extreme output lamps for several of my Surefire lights. I just got a Surefire A2 and was wondering if you have, or plan to have a higher output lamp for the A2. Maybe something in the 110 to 150 Lumen range would be great. Please let me know. I am a member of CPF forums, and I know that there is a great interest in a lamp like this for the A2. Thank you. I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,

Rob Bond* 


*
Hi Rob,

Yes, we are planning and designing a lamp for the A2, the output will be as you say around the 110-150 mark as it is basically the most you can get out of the A2 without modding the internal regulator of the A2.

We are trying to solve this fitting problem of the base, once it has been solved, it will be out.

Thanks for your interest in our products.

Gabriel
Sr. Sales Rep.
Lumens Factory*


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## socom1970 (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: Lumens Factory and SF A2*

Eeeexcellent!!! I would definately get a couple for my A2. Thanks for asking them about it. Can't wait... (must mod A2, must mod A2...)


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## MikeLip (Dec 5, 2007)

*Re: Lumens Factory and SF A2*

Awwww YEAH. How to make a great light fantastic, in one easy step  I just hope revision A doesn't smoke the regulator!


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## Size15's (Dec 5, 2007)

BTW, I've merged a thread of a few posts into this one...


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## bondr006 (Dec 5, 2007)

Thank you Al. I don't peruse this forum often, and I missed this one.

Rob


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## LED61 (Dec 5, 2007)

FlashSpyJ said:


> even though I would want my A2 to be brighter, Im not sure I would like a shorter runtime with the bulb. I cant get any RCR123 batts in mine, the tube is to narrow, I couldnt even squeese them down whitout the label. So shorter runtime with regular CR123 batts wouldnt be very ideal for me. I tried the A2 in my back yard last night, it really hasnt a waow effect on me, its a great light for its purposes, that would be camping for me, low light needs most of the time and decent high when needed. Us flashaholics rarely just carry one light anyway, so we could just bring another light for more power say a 9P with P91 bulb, ok ok its not regulated...But atleast I can get RCR batts in my 9P


 

I made a comment of the like back a few posts on a shorter runtime, but it just dawned on me this would not be possible since the same regulator circuit would have to be used, runtime would be the same, and the bulb would just have to be more efficient and a huge increase to the 120 lumen mark unattainable.


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## bondr006 (Dec 5, 2007)

I don't know if I totally agree with that. An OEM P60 Lamp assembly gives you 65 lumens for 60 minutes. A Lumens Factory P60 HO-6 Lamp assembly gives you 160 lumens for 50 minutes. Both are running off 6 volts on 2 x cr123a batteries. There must be room for Lumens Factory to at least double the output of the A2, if not a little more, and still get the same run times.


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## LED61 (Dec 5, 2007)

Yeah but the P60 is direct drive, the A2 has a regulator circuit. A LF lamp would have to use the same so energy spent would be the same right ? I´m not sure someone correct me on this if I´m wrong.


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## bondr006 (Dec 5, 2007)

Well, according to the response I got from Lumens Factory, it is possible, and they are working on it. In fact, they said the lamp part is easy....It's the base of the assembly they have to make sure is just right.


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## Daniel_sk (Dec 5, 2007)

LED61 said:


> Yeah but the P60 is direct drive, the A2 has a regulator circuit. A LF lamp would have to use the same so energy spent would be the same right ? I´m not sure someone correct me on this if I´m wrong.


 
I think someone mentioned that it's voltage regulated, but not current rugelated. So you could use a lamp that works on the same voltage but draws more amperes?


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## LED61 (Dec 5, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> I think someone mentioned that it's voltage regulated, but not current rugelated. So you could use a lamp that works on the same voltage but draws more amperes?


 

Good point that´s right so it could be a whiter more wattage bulb with the same regulator voltage.

I still don´t see how you could go from 80 lumens out the front to 120 though. Maybe 100.


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## Size15's (Dec 5, 2007)

I'd be interested to learn what Lumens Factory would rate the MA02 in terms of lumens and runtime if it were their lamp.

I am conscious that comparing the lamps from two different manufacturers based on the manufacturers' own ratings leads to inaccuracies because the ratings are derived in different ways. Additionally, it is too simplistic for my taste to use only one output value and one runtime value since we all know that output changes over the runtime and even when the output is regulated, it is still useful to know more about how the output changes over time.

I would much prefer independant ratings to be used for comparison between manufacturers and I would prefer this to be displayed in representative runtime/output charts.

Al


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## MikeLip (Dec 5, 2007)

LED61 said:


> Good point that´s right so it could be a whiter more wattage bulb with the same regulator voltage.
> 
> I still don´t see how you could go from 80 lumens out the front to 120 though. Maybe 100.



I wonder how much thermal overhead is available from the regulator? It's a PWM regulator, right? PWMs are not 100% efficient (no regulator is, of course), and an increase in current would mean an increase in power dissipation in the circuit.


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## leukos (Dec 5, 2007)

Willie Hunt's LVR's are 99% efficient.


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## KROMATICS (Dec 5, 2007)

LED61 said:


> Good point that´s right so it could be a whiter more wattage bulb with the same regulator voltage.
> 
> I still don´t see how you could go from 80 lumens *out the front* to 120 though. Maybe 100.




Don't forget that Lumens Factory markets products using bulb lumens.


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## IcantC (Jan 11, 2008)

Any update on this?

I currently see fivemega with the Strion bulb kit.


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## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2008)

bondr006 said:


> I don't know if I totally agree with that. An OEM P60 Lamp assembly gives you 65 lumens for 60 minutes. A Lumens Factory P60 HO-6 Lamp assembly gives you 160 lumens for 50 minutes. Both are running off 6 volts on 2 x cr123a batteries. There must be room for Lumens Factory to at least double the output of the A2, if not a little more, and still get the same run times.



Keep in mind that Lumens Factory is rating them by bulb lumens and Surefire is rating them by torch lumens. The method Surefire uses shows how much light is actually making it out the front of the flashlight and is conservatively rated as well. The Lumens Factory HO-6 is actually putting out around 105 lumens in direct comparison. I'm sure they could make the A2 brighter but by how much? I'd be more interested in improvements to beam quality. The bi-pin adapter and Strion bulb combo sold by FiveMega does both but it will cost you.


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## Patriot (Jan 12, 2008)

Since some of the posts in this thread are related to brighter A2s, I thought I'd toss these thread links in here. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183218

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/184556

This Strion bulb is a huge boost the the A2.


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## rtt (Jan 14, 2008)

Does anyone know if LF is still working on the A2 bulb or did they decide not to pursue it?


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## [email protected] (Jan 15, 2008)

We finished a very nice prototype and everything is in good order.
Because we will have a long hoilday soon, so we will continue the work after the hoildays.

You guys can be rest assured that we will release this lamp, I can't say too much right now. But I am sure you guys will be happy with the lamp.

As you know, the A2 is a regulated torch. So we didn't do anything crazy, but we did improve almost every characteristics of the lamp right down to the overall construction of the lamp assembly.

Cheers


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## LED61 (Jan 15, 2008)

Gosh!! I feel something good coming!!


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## GreySave (Jan 15, 2008)

I have always found Mark to be a man of his word, so this should be very interesting indeed.


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 15, 2008)

Just received another light bulb from LF! As always they have great products!

I cant wait for the A2 bulb!

Keep up the good job! :thumbsup:

/Johan


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## leukos (Jan 15, 2008)

:twothumbs


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 18, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We finished a very nice prototype and everything is in good order.
> Because we will have a long hoilday soon, so we will continue the work after the hoildays.
> 
> You guys can be rest assured that we will release this lamp, I can't say too much right now. But I am sure you guys will be happy with the lamp.
> ...


*That's freaking awesome!!

Thank you Lumens Factory! *(for making our world brighter and better)

Cheers


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## IcantC (Jan 18, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We finished a very nice prototype and everything is in good order.
> Because we will have a long hoilday soon, so we will continue the work after the hoildays.
> 
> You guys can be rest assured that we will release this lamp, I can't say too much right now. But I am sure you guys will be happy with the lamp.
> ...


 
Sweeet keep us updated!


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## Well-Lit (Jan 18, 2008)

Mark: Thanks so much for making this lamp a reality. You just made a lot of A2 owners very happy.:twothumbs Enjoy your holiday..................then get back to work...

Best Regards:
Bob


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## socom1970 (Jan 18, 2008)

Oooooooohhhhh baby!!!!!! A2 is gettin' an upgrade!!!! Between my Aviatrix(which will be here someday...  ) and a LF lamp assy. upgrade, I will have the best EDC ever!!!!! You rock, Lumens Factory!!! :rock:


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## fnmag (Jan 18, 2008)

Anxiously awaiting this new bulb......:thumbsup:


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## Spence (Jan 19, 2008)

FlashSpy-
Just so I got you right...You run RCR's in your 9P with the P91 bulb?
:thinking::sigh::sick2::huh:


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 19, 2008)

Spence said:


> FlashSpy-
> Just so I got you right...You run RCR's in your 9P with the P91 bulb?
> :thinking::sigh::sick2::huh:


Crazy people...


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## FlashSpyJ (Jan 20, 2008)

Spence said:


> FlashSpy-
> Just so I got you right...You run RCR's in your 9P with the P91 bulb?
> :thinking::sigh::sick2::huh:



ooop! 

NO! I do not run RCR with the P91 bulb, I dont even own that bulb! I dont know why I wrote that... I use 2 X 17500 and LF HO-9 (320 Lumen), and currently the EO-9 bulb!

have been thinking about it, and a higher output bulb for the A2 would be really great! Regulated incan rules!


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## Dioni (Jan 20, 2008)




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## IcantC (Jan 23, 2008)




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## IcantC (Feb 1, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We finished a very nice prototype and everything is in good order.
> Because we will have a long hoilday soon, so we will continue the work after the hoildays.
> 
> You guys can be rest assured that we will release this lamp, I can't say too much right now. But I am sure you guys will be happy with the lamp.
> ...


 
Any update? 

Wonder how this will stack up against FMs Strion kit, which seems to be great.


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## Filip (Feb 14, 2008)

Yesterday I asked Lumens Factory about their A2 lamp:

Hi Filip,

Yes, the information you have heard is correct.

We will hopefully be releasing the new A2 lamp within 6-8 weeks.

The info that we are able to release right now is as follows:

Model: HO-A2, High Output Lamp Assembly for the Surefire A2
Output: 120 Bulb Lumens
Design Voltage: 4V
Current Draw: 1.55A
Average Total Life: 20 Hours
Colour Temperature: 3300 K

The information above might be slightly different upon release.
Price has not been determined yet.

Thank you for your interest in our products.


Gabriel
Sr. Sales Rep.
Lumens Factory


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## depusm12 (Feb 14, 2008)

I would love an increase in the output of my A2 even it was only 80-110 lumens. I would definately use my A2 more when this new bulb becomes a reality.


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## FlashSpyJ (Feb 14, 2008)

so how much would 120 bulb lumens mean out the front?
The original bulb have been measured to around 80 lumen out the front.
Couldnt you expect around 65% of LF bulb lumens and thats approx what you get out the front?
In that case there would be little different. But Im hoping Im wrong!


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## LA OZ (Feb 14, 2008)

Average Total Life: 20 Hours :huh:.

Will it died after two days constant use?


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## Daniel_sk (Feb 14, 2008)

LA OZ said:


> Average Total Life: 20 Hours :huh:.
> 
> Will it died after two days constant use?


That's pretty normal. Surefire lamps have similar rating, althouth the A2 bulb has a longer life due to the soft-start. It's something between 30-40 hours. These 20 hours are the minimum total life, it's usually better.


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## WildChild (Feb 14, 2008)

Battery life at this level?



Filip said:


> Yesterday I asked Lumens Factory about their A2 lamp:
> 
> Hi Filip,
> 
> ...


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## Carpenter (Feb 14, 2008)

If each CR123 cell is 1500mAh, then I would think an hour to 90 minutes in regulation :thinking: 

If that's true then


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## DM51 (Feb 14, 2008)

The cells are running in series, not parallel, so you don't have 2x the capacity of 1 cell.


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## Carpenter (Feb 14, 2008)

DM51 said:


> The cells are running in series, not parallel, so you don't have 2x the capacity of 1 cell.


 
Ahh, you are correct wise one.. :bow:

Back to the normal 40-50 minute runtime.


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## 78CJ5 (Feb 14, 2008)

:thumbsup:


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## effulgentOne (Feb 14, 2008)

wait, 4V*1.55A = 6.2W
6Wh/6.2W = 58min. (assuming 100% converter efficiency and 3Wh per cell at this current draw)

Is that right?


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## WildChild (Feb 14, 2008)

effulgentOne said:


> wait, 4V*1.55A = 6.2W
> 6Wh/6.2W = 58min. (assuming 100% converter efficiency and 3Wh per cell at this current draw)
> 
> Is that right?



Does anyone know what current pulls the MA02?


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## Patriot (Feb 15, 2008)

I'm very curious to see how it does when compared with the Strion mod. Nice thing about this one is that there is no mod required. Thanks again LF.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 21, 2008)




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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 21, 2008)

WildChild said:


> Does anyone know what current pulls the MA02?



It is difficult to accurately measure the A2's current because of the PWM type circuit. I believe it has been established at about 1.6 amps at 3.5 volts.

Bill


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## ampdude (Feb 21, 2008)

I thought I read somewhere the voltage was more like 4.0-4.2V


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## KeyGrip (Feb 22, 2008)

Will it run on rcr123s, or will there be a lamp that does?


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## DM51 (Feb 22, 2008)

RCR123s should be OK for the lamp itself, because the regulation circuit will take care of the extra voltage - as happens with the MA02.

The potential problem with RCR123s is with the LEDs, as the power to them is not regulated and there is the possibility of burning them out. 

Having said that, there are people who have been happily using Li-Ions in their A2s (not many brands actually fit in there) and I have yet not heard of any LEDs failing as a result.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 22, 2008)

DM51 said:


> RCR123s should be OK for the lamp itself, because the regulation circuit will take care of the extra voltage - as happens with the MA02.
> 
> The potential problem with RCR123s is with the LEDs, as the power to them is not regulated and there is the possibility of burning them out.
> 
> Having said that, there are people who have been happily using Li-Ions in their A2s (not many brands actually fit in there) and I have yet not heard of any LEDs failing as a result.



Powerizer RCR123, 3.5-4.2volts worked fine in my A2.

Bill


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## DM51 (Feb 22, 2008)

Thanks Bill, I was trying to remember what brand it was. js has been using those as well, IIRC.


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## IcantC (Feb 22, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Powerizer RCR123, 3.5-4.2volts worked fine in my A2.
> 
> Bill


 

Hey Bill I notice they have about 3 different RCR123 models, can you please let us know which one

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.a...earch=cr123a&gclid=CJm3nc7S2JECFQkdPAodoCgLZg

Thanks!


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 22, 2008)

IcantC said:


> Hey Bill I notice they have about 3 different RCR123 models, can you please let us know which one
> 
> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.a...earch=cr123a&gclid=CJm3nc7S2JECFQkdPAodoCgLZg
> 
> Thanks!



On this page. Bottom left.
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=845

Bill


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## IcantC (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks Bill!

So any updates from LF?


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## cnjl3 (Mar 3, 2008)

This was posted on 01/14/2008 and by now I was hoping to see side by side beam shot comparisons between the stock, FM & LF lamp assembly by CPF members who have multiple A2's.








[email protected] said:


> We finished a very nice prototype and everything is in good order.
> Because we will have a long hoilday soon, so we will continue the work after the hoildays.
> 
> You guys can be rest assured that we will release this lamp, I can't say too much right now. But I am sure you guys will be happy with the lamp.
> ...


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## Wattnot (Mar 3, 2008)

Three pages and nobody asked about color? Okay, I'l do it!

Are they going to have all of the LED colors available like the stock A2? :huh:


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## mwaldron (Mar 3, 2008)

The A2 Lamp Assembly is completely independent of the LED ring and thus the LED color of your A2 wouldn't be changed at all. LF is simply making a new incandescent drop in for it.




Wattnot said:


> Three pages and nobody asked about color? Okay, I'l do it!
> 
> Are they going to have all of the LED colors available like the stock A2? :huh:


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## Wattnot (Mar 3, 2008)

mwaldron said:


> The A2 Lamp Assembly is completely independent of the LED ring and thus the LED color of your A2 wouldn't be changed at all. LF is simply making a new incandescent drop in for it.


 
CRUD! I'm kinda wishing I'd bought red instead of white. And NO, I don't want two! I'm not that bad yet! :nana:


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## mwaldron (Mar 3, 2008)

I've become seriously addicted to the A2. I have 2 of them now, considering a 3rd and I have 1 spare LED ring "in the mail" for experimentation. I wish LED rings were more commonly available but there is so much drama surrounding the replacements I'm starting to doubt we will ever actually one come out.

I'm trying to find some Strion kits for my A2's and I'm looking into doing a white LED replacement to change my A2-WH from "Angry Blue" to "Incandescent (targeting around 3000K LEDs)."

Anyway, the A2 is a great platform, and If you post in B/S/T you may find someone willing to trade you LED rings. 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled waiting for new products thread...


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## jufam44 (Mar 3, 2008)

So does anyone have any new info on release date, now that the lunar new year is over?


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## senna94 (Mar 4, 2008)

jufam44 said:


> So does anyone have any new info on release date, now that the lunar new year is over?



+1


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## [email protected] (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi Guys,

We are busy finishing up the final productions of the HO-A2 now, it should be released within the month.

Cheers. 

Mark


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## Carpenter (Mar 5, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> We are busy finishing up the final productions of the HO-A2 now, it should be released within the month.
> 
> ...


 

Great news Mark,

I look forward to purchasing one and trying it out.


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## Taboot (Mar 5, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> We are busy finishing up the final productions of the HO-A2 now, it should be released within the month.
> 
> ...


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## senna94 (Mar 7, 2008)

Any specs yet???????
:santa:


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## senna94 (Mar 22, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> We are busy finishing up the final productions of the HO-A2 now, it should be released within the month.
> 
> ...




I hate it when the month drags by so slow!!!!!!!!


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## Gunnerboy (Mar 23, 2008)

Gabriel w/LF said in yesteday's email that the lamp is ready, but that they were still manufacturing the remaining lots for their dealers. They want all their dealers to have the same release date. He assured me that the lamp would be released in March.

Cheers,
Gary


----------



## samson722 (Mar 26, 2008)

Gunnerboy said:


> Gabriel w/LF said in yesteday's email that the lamp is ready, but that they were still manufacturing the remaining lots for their dealers. They want all their dealers to have the same release date. He assured me that the lamp would be released in March.
> 
> Cheers,
> Gary


Man, I HATE waiting for something this cool.....


----------



## Taboot (Mar 27, 2008)

Gunnerboy said:


> Gabriel w/LF said in yesteday's email that the lamp is ready, but that they were still manufacturing the remaining lots for their dealers. They want all their dealers to have the same release date. He assured me that the lamp would be released in March.
> 
> Cheers,
> Gary



They're quickly running out of March.....


----------



## Patriot (Mar 29, 2008)

senna94 said:


> Any specs yet???????




Yes, I'm also curious of the specs. Any word?


----------



## senna94 (Mar 29, 2008)




----------



## [email protected] (Mar 29, 2008)

Yeah guys, there will be slight delay on the release of the HO-A2.

I will post a picture of the finished product here for you guys next week.

Cheers,

Mark


----------



## greenstuffs (Mar 29, 2008)

What price will it be?


----------



## Patriot (Mar 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah guys, there will be slight delay on the release of the HO-A2.
> 
> I will post a picture of the finished product here for you guys next week.
> 
> ...




So that's just a delay on the release right? A few of us were just curious about the specs though....


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 31, 2008)

Double post, please delete this post.

Thanks


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes, it is only a delay in the release date.
The lamp has been made already, so it will be released. 

The Specs are:

Model: HO-A2, High Output Lamp Assembly for Surefire A2
Output: 120 Lumens
Design Voltage: 4V
Current Draw: 1.55A
Colour Temperature: 3325 K
Average Total Life: 20 Hours

Price: $19.00


Cheers, :laughing:

Mark


----------



## LED61 (Mar 31, 2008)

Great development, thank you Mark.

But, let me ask if this lamp is brighter than the MA 02, which has been proven in McGizmo's sphere to arrive at 79 lumens, and your lamp being 120 lumens x .65 = 80 lumens out the front, I fail to see the increased output. Maybe I'm missing something.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Mar 31, 2008)

Actually the A2 was checked by an independent lab too, LSI, to be at about 79 lumens. 

Bill

edit: I have the results from LSI. I was in error. LSI, a certified testing lab, showed 68 lumens for the A2. Still better than the advertised 50 lumens.

Bill


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 1, 2008)

We also checked the MA02 using our sphere and 79 lumens is about right, but that is the bulb lumens that we have checked. Maybe we are using different perimeters or spheres for testing. 

The same reason why SF can come up with lumens ratings that is neither torch lumens or bulb lumens, they use a different set of perimeters and testing equipments. No one knows which is brighter until placed side by side.

Lumens ratings along with colour temperature, spot quality, build design are all factors that determines which is a better choice. So I will avoid arguing to much on numbers alone.

The goal for the HO-A2 is a brighter alternative for the A2, if there is no increase in performance, we probably wouldn't make it would we? :laughing:

Please understand that this has been the most difficult project that we have up until now, that's why it took so long for us to develope this lamp. 

Cheers,

Mark


----------



## Taboot (Apr 1, 2008)

So in the same sphere, the SF lamps made 79 lumens and the LF lamp made 120 lumens. If the test is properly done, it is apples vs apples. A 50 percent increase in output is very good for $19.

Next, an EO-A2? I'll take both :twothumbs


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Apr 1, 2008)

I have the LSI test results of the A2 that was passed around during the Lightmeter Benchmark time frame. LSI is a certified testing lab whose results should duplicate results from other certified testing labs, even Surefire's, if Surefire has a testing lab.

SPOT MAXIMUM INTENSITY:

MEASUREMENT TAKEN AT 2 MINUTES
MEASUREMENT TAKEN AT 1 METER

2508	LUX


LUMEN MEASUREMENT:

MEASUREMENT TAKEN AT 2 MINUTES

68	LUMENS


SPECTRAL MEASUREMENT:

x = 0.4121 CRI = 98.6

y = 0.3967 CCT = 3401 K

PEAK COLOR=	695 nm

Bill

Looking at the lux measurement, 2508, I would say that the MA02 lamp was fairly new. See Lightmeter Benchmark Testing in sticky threads in battery forum for lux measurements.

Bill


----------



## Taboot (Apr 1, 2008)

I assume they (LF) tested the incan lamp only to arrive at their stated output. Is this true of the tests of the stock lamp also? On high, the A2 powers the incan and the 3 LEDs. I wonder how much the 3 LEDs add to the lumens number. 

In any case, I'm looking forward to the extra power in my A2. $19 to increase output by around 50% in a nearly $200 light seems like a bargain. 10% more $ for 50% more horsepower.


----------



## IcantC (Apr 1, 2008)

Wow can't wait to try it! Any runtime estimates?


----------



## senna94 (Apr 1, 2008)

IcantC said:


> Wow can't wait to try it! Any runtime estimates?




If the output is doubled then the runtime is more than likely cut in half. A trade off I can live with!!!!!!!!
:thumbsup:


----------



## greenstuffs (Apr 2, 2008)

Will it be similar to the upgrade from the stock A2 bulb to the Strion Kit from 5mega? I say because the Strion kit does offer a significant leap in performance that can be noticed by the naked eye.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Apr 2, 2008)

Regarding my earlier post re LSI test of an A2, I forgot that the test was done with only the incan in place. The LEDS had been removed per the Lightmeter Benchmark passaround testing procedures. So add an extra lumen amount for the three LEDS = 68 lumens + three LEDS.

Bill


----------



## Gunnerboy (Apr 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Please understand that this has been the most difficult project that we have up until now, that's why it took so long for us to develope this lamp.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark


 

Mark,

I just wanted to say that I appreciate LF taking on the challenge of building this lamp. I've always been pleased with the products and service from your company.

I will definitely be ordering one. 

Cheers,
Gary


----------



## Patriot (Apr 3, 2008)

greenstuffs said:


> Will it be similar to the upgrade from the stock A2 bulb to the Strion Kit from 5mega? I say because the Strion kit does offer a significant leap in performance that can be noticed by the naked eye.




I really doubt that we're going to see Strion mod performance out of this lamp based on other LF lamp assemblies. The reason being that the Strion is being driven pretty hard and the focus is much tighter than the stock lamp. The one big clue to performance which wasn't stated in the specs was run-time. Without that it's going to be hard to guess. I think the selling point for this lamp is going to be the availability, the fantastic price and all with a little added performance. The Strion kit doubles the performance but the original selling price was $45 shipped. Also they're not available at this time. 

Thanks for making this lamp a reality Mark. :wave:


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 7, 2008)

Hi guys,

Here is a preview picture of the new HO-A2.
Brass and Teflon construction base and high standing frosted tip xenon lamp.
This is a brand new lamp and it will be released as soon as possible. 







Cheers,:laughing:

Mark


----------



## Carpenter (Apr 7, 2008)

Mark,

I would be more than happy to beta test one of these for you..  

Will we see them this week? I waiting for this to come out to place an order for other bulbs too


----------



## mwaldron (Apr 7, 2008)

From the label on your box:
HO-A2
High Output
6V 120 Lumens

If I'm not mistaking the A2 drives it's bulb pretty consistently at 4V. Might want to check with the packaging people. 

I know the A2 uses 2x123's but that's like saying the processor in your PC runs on 110V because your computer plugs into the wall.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 7, 2008)

mwaldron said:


> From the label on your box:
> HO-A2
> High Output
> 6V 120 Lumens
> ...


I'm pretty darn sure that folks at Lumens Factory know everything about their bulbs. I'm sure 6V is just the nominal voltage.


----------



## mwaldron (Apr 7, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I'm pretty darn sure that folks at Lumens Factory know everything about their bulbs.



I have no doubt that they do, I was pointing out a packaging mistake. 



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I'm sure 6V is just the nominal voltage.



6V is almost certainly not the "nominal" voltage of the bulb. A 6V bulb in the A2 would be significantly under driven and extremely poor performance. I have no doubt LF designed appropriately for the A2.


----------



## senna94 (Apr 7, 2008)

Sweet pics!!!!!!! Looks almost like a FiveMega Strion kit!!!!!!!


----------



## ampdude (Apr 9, 2008)

mwaldron said:


> I have no doubt that they do, I was pointing out a packaging mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> 6V is almost certainly not the "nominal" voltage of the bulb. A 6V bulb in the A2 would be significantly under driven and extremely poor performance. I have no doubt LF designed appropriately for the A2.



I wouldn't worry about it, they know what they're doing.


----------



## depusm12 (Apr 9, 2008)

It will be interesting to see how it stands up to a fivemega Strion Kit. And if it is as bright or brighter.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

Yes, the 6V was on the package because it uses 2 x CR123a and we thought it would be simpler this way. Not everybody knows so much about flashlight like you guys, you know. :laughing: We don't want non-flashaholics to get confused, that's all. 

And yes, the design voltage for the lamp is 4V.

I will try to release the first lot sometime next week and it will be posted here so you guys will know first hand.

Thanks.

Mark


----------



## RichS (Apr 9, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I will try to release the first lot sometime next week and it will be posted here so you guys will know first hand.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark


Whoohoo! Perfect timing - my new A2 is on the way!


----------



## depusm12 (Apr 9, 2008)

RichS said:


> Whoohoo! Perfect timing - my new A2 is on the way!


 
Awesome I have a 2nd A2 on the way myself.


----------



## Taboot (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm really psyched up to get one of these. My A2 has been seeming just a little lame recently.


----------



## senna94 (Apr 13, 2008)




----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2008)

The HO-A2 is now ready to order, please go to the site and click under "Other Series" and you will find it there. 

Also, please excuse the bad photo as I just couldn't make you guys wait any longer because the studio can't give me the appropriate photo yet. It will be changed to a nice one when he gave me the photo.


Cheers. :laughing:

Mark


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## Greg_Jones (Apr 14, 2008)

Order placed-thanks!


----------



## bxstylez (Apr 14, 2008)

ordered placed also :thanks:

.


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## DesertFox (Apr 14, 2008)

Excellent. Can't wait to try this out.


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## rhpdchief (Apr 14, 2008)

The wait is over. Order placed. Thanks!


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## Patriot (Apr 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, the 6V was on the package because it uses 2 x CR123a and we thought it would be simpler this way. Not everybody knows so much about flashlight like you guys, you know. :laughing: We don't want non-flashaholics to get confused, that's all.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark




Yes, that makes perfect sense. Just like the box of the M6 say's 18V. It's not obviously but for the purpose of simplicity, for most folks it's easier if it's labeled this way.

Thanks for the update Mark


----------



## senna94 (Apr 14, 2008)

I wonder how long it will be before Lighthound has them in stock? Dealer's should have been able to place their orders first you would think.


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 14, 2008)

Order placed! Thanks Mark!


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## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2008)

> senna94
> I wonder how long it will be before Lighthound has them in stock? Dealer's should have been able to place their orders first you would think.


 
Yes, but do you want me to delay the release another week or two? You see, I have always said that this is the "First Lot". This lot is actually intended for dealers, but folks have been spamming emails asking when the release date is, so we HAVE to answer the call. :laughing:

Be sure that Lighthound will carry this new lamp very very soon, so all is good.

Also I would like to thank everybody for the continued support, you know with everybody going LED these days, the path has been tough. But with the help from you guys, incandescent developement will continue. 

You are the ones that made this lamp happen and we would like to thank you guys for all the support and good inputs that has helped us develope this new lamp.

It has been difficult since it is an entirely new design that has never been done before and to improve an already great lamp assembly with so little room to play with (the voltage and current regulation) has also been hard. That's why it took us 3 months to get it together. We hope that you will be pleased with it as with our other products. 

Thanks guys. 

Mark


----------



## LA OZ (Apr 15, 2008)

$20 is the same price as Surefire original lamp is it not? Bummer, I was hoping it go for less so that I can use my A2 more often.


----------



## Greg_Jones (Apr 15, 2008)

LA OZ said:


> $20 is the same price as Surefire original lamp is it not? Bummer, I was hoping it go for less so that I can use my A2 more often.



SureFire lists the MA02 lamp for the A2 at $25 US, $19 US for the LF. The LF assembly is more lamp for less money-sounds like all one could ask for? I know I'll be using my A2 more often. Depending on how good the LF lamp is, it has me thinking that I might buy another A2 with red LEDs.


----------



## SunStar (Apr 15, 2008)

Please excuse me if I missed somewhere guys... but what's the expected run time with the LF HO-A2?


----------



## senna94 (Apr 15, 2008)

LA OZ said:


> $20 is the same price as Surefire original lamp is it not? Bummer, I was hoping it go for less so that I can use my A2 more often.



What?????????? This is a lamp that will in all probability outperform the factory lamp by a mile. You are getting this for a lower price and with the A2s soft start feature this lamp should last forever. Most A2 users experience an aging in their MA02 lamp way before it burns out. I have yet to have any of mine burn out. This should in no way be an influence as to how often you use your A2. Just my 2 cents.

Paul


----------



## senna94 (Apr 15, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, but do you want me to delay the release another week or two? You see, I have always said that this is the "First Lot". This lot is actually intended for dealers, but folks have been spamming emails asking when the release date is, so we HAVE to answer the call. :laughing:
> 
> Be sure that Lighthound will carry this new lamp very very soon, so all is good.
> 
> ...



Great news Mark and thank you continuing to develop these wonderful products. Since Lighthound is just down the street I might just take a drive tomorrow and bug John. With any luck he will receive these new lamps before I get there!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 15, 2008)

Hello Mark,

If I put an order in for 4, does that make me a dealer...?  

I am looking forward to checking these out.

Tom


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## batman (Apr 16, 2008)

I myself just ordered TWO of these babies. Can't wait


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## [email protected] (Apr 17, 2008)

Silverfox,

No, 4 wouldn't make you a dealer. :laughing:


----------



## mwaldron (Apr 17, 2008)

Carpenter's order probably qualified though! :thumbsup:


----------



## senna94 (Apr 17, 2008)

Some factory beam shots using the new lamp would be nice!!! Anyone?? Mark???????


----------



## js (Apr 17, 2008)

I'm going to order one of these bad boys, along with an E2R LA. I'm pleased to see that LF has recognized the extra precision needed for an A2 LA, and has acted accordingly.

Just wanted to mention regarding earlier discussion about the LVR regulator, and PWM regulators in general:

For LED's PWM can be less efficient for at least two reasons (as I understand it, anyway). One is that an inductor is used to smooth out the output to make a more constant current output (but not totally DC--usually some modest ripple even in the best of cases). The other is that if an inductor isn't used, then you are pushing a lot of current through the LED when you _are_ putting current through it, and LED's are more efficient at lower currents. So doing a 1 amp pulse with a 20 percent duty cycle isn't as efficient as just putting 200 mA DC through the LED--for example.

However, in the case of an incan regulator, the filament itself is the smoothing element. As long as the filament is hot, it will continue to emit light. The electrical current is just used to make and keep the filament hot. So if the PWM frequency is high enough that a cycle is short compared to the thermal mass of the filament, you will never notice any flickering, because the filament will stay hot between pulses, which will just act to keep it at exactly the right DC equivalent voltage. Think of the light bulbs in your house, for example. They are on 60 cycle AC power, but you never notice any flickering. Plus, in any case, filaments are _more_ efficient the hotter they get. Until they *cough* _vaporize_! LOL!

As for the voltage-current characteristics of the MA02 lamp, I went to a lot of trouble to measure those, back when I posted my A2 review, but I actually had some qualms about just posting that info, along with circuit diagrams of the LVR3L. It really isn't something 99 percent of us would ever use or need. The MA02 is about 5 watts, with a CCT of 3300. A CR123A will provide something on the order of 2.5 watt-hours at a 1.5 amp draw, and more like 3 at a 1 amp draw. So, two of them should power a 5 watt lamp for over an hour. To wit, the E2e will run for 75 minutes.

So, what about the A2? Shouldn't it run for over an hour? Well, no, because when the voltage of the batteries falls to the point where they will no longer power the MA02, they still have something on the order of 25 percent of their capacity left. So take 75 percent of 75 minutes and you get . . . 

. . . drum roll please . . .

56.25 minutes. Which is damn close to the runtime of an A2 on good CR123A's.

But, those 5 watts go farther than the E2e's 5 watts because the CCT is higher. About 200 K higher, IIRC. That's about 6 lumens per watt increase in efficiency = 30 bulb lumens turns into 19.5 torch lumens. And less, in the case of the A2, due to the LED's in the reflector. So, maybe 15 lumens?

So, the E2e starts at like 80 tL and falls to 40 at end of run, achieving an "average" of about 60.

Add 15 to 60 and you get . . .

. . . drum roll please . . .

. . . 75 lumens.

Ah.

I love it when numbers fall into place. hehe.

*****

Looking forward to my LF A2 lamp.


----------



## depusm12 (Apr 18, 2008)

Beamshot, we need beamshots for this thread. Anybody got the new A2 lamps yet?


----------



## senna94 (Apr 19, 2008)

Anyone received theirs yet???????




Cricket chirping in the background!!!!


----------



## Greg_Jones (Apr 19, 2008)

Nothing here, but then I figured 7-10 days to get it to Kentucky. I did think that perhaps someone on the west coast might have received theirs today?


----------



## Taboot (Apr 20, 2008)

Great post js. 

I wonder what special characteristics this lamp has that makes it complicated. Mark said this was the most difficult lamp they have done. 

Next payday I'm getting one and a new EO-13:devil:


----------



## js (Apr 21, 2008)

Taboot said:


> Great post js.
> 
> I wonder what special characteristics this lamp has that makes it complicated. Mark said this was the most difficult lamp they have done.
> 
> Next payday I'm getting one and a new EO-13:devil:



Taboot,

The lamp assembly is difficult due to the tighter tolerances needed, and the base design/configuration. It's a precision component. The bare lamp itself isn't any more complicated, of course, but the A2 LA as a whole is. I've been saying this for years whenever anyone complains about the cost of SF LA's, being all cynical about how SF is making a killing on them and ripping us all off. It's not a trivial component to make. As far as I know, I'm one of the only (or one of a select few) CPF'ers who can pot his own lamps, and my ring potted lamps are the height of simplicity compared to the A2 LA, and it is no easy matter for me to ring-pot a WA lamp. I add $5 to the cost of the bare lamp, but that's just an excuse to do it, and not anything close to what it really costs if I factor in a reasonable hourly wage. And the A2 LA is an order of magnitude more difficult to make than one of my ring-potted lamps.

I suspect [email protected] will confirm the rather tight tolerances and intricate design of this LA, which explains why LF charges more for an A2 LA than it does for an E2 or E1 LA.


----------



## Glen C (Apr 21, 2008)

Mark just wanted to chime in on this thread and say how impressed I am with the quality of this lamp. Definitely your normal high standard but can also see by the unusual fine base how difficult this would be to make, as mentioned by Jim. Just wish I had an Aviator to use it in


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Apr 22, 2008)

This new lamp gives a new excuse to buy another A2, I'm screwed...


----------



## Taboot (Apr 22, 2008)

js said:


> Taboot,
> 
> The lamp assembly is difficult due to the tighter tolerances needed, and the base design/configuration. It's a precision component. The bare lamp itself isn't any more complicated, of course, but the A2 LA as a whole is. I've been saying this for years whenever anyone complains about the cost of SF LA's, being all cynical about how SF is making a killing on them and ripping us all off. It's not a trivial component to make. As far as I know, I'm one of the only (or one of a select few) CPF'ers who can pot his own lamps, and my ring potted lamps are the height of simplicity compared to the A2 LA, and it is no easy matter for me to ring-pot a WA lamp. I add $5 to the cost of the bare lamp, but that's just an excuse to do it, and not anything close to what it really costs if I factor in a reasonable hourly wage. And the A2 LA is an order of magnitude more difficult to make than one of my ring-potted lamps.
> 
> I suspect [email protected] will confirm the rather tight tolerances and intricate design of this LA, which explains why LF charges more for an A2 LA than it does for an E2 or E1 LA.


 
js,

Thanks for the explanation. It's more of a manufacturing design difficulty than an electrical one. 

(brief off topic aside): 
Regarding your lamp potting. Is it possible to make a bi-pin bulb potted in a miniature screw base? I have a 1941 8 D cell light (12V w/ Alkies, 9.6 with NiMH). It's tough to find E-10 (mini screw base bulbs.) I'm think ing of using a 10-20 W 12V bulb.
(end brief off topic aside)
Thanks,

Mike


----------



## senna94 (Apr 22, 2008)




----------



## SCblur (Apr 22, 2008)

I ordered mine the day they became available, and I'm in CA, should see it this week I'm thinking. I'll do a review and take some beamshots for y'all alongside a stock MA02 and a striton Bi-pin adapter. I'm eager to see the results myself.


----------



## js (Apr 24, 2008)

Taboot said:


> js,
> 
> Thanks for the explanation. It's more of a manufacturing design difficulty than an electrical one.
> 
> ...



Mike,

Sure. Anything's possible! But it's not what I do. Click on the fixture-ring lamp potting link in my sig-line to see what I do do.

In any case, though, yes, if you soldered the leads (if that's how it's done) to the proper parts of the screw-base, and then potted it in place, it should work. Although there is the question of the melting point of the solder. :thinking:


----------



## greenpea76 (Apr 25, 2008)

*I got my lamp in today so I got some photos up for you guys.*

*My lightbox reading got:*
*6400 Lux with the Lumens Factory LA*
*6300 Lux with the Surefire Stock LA*

*1 Meter measurement got:*
*2000 Lux with the Lumens Factory LA*
*1400 Lux with the Surefire Stock LA*

*The photos:*





*Beamshot against grayish blue wall*
*



*
*Outdoor shot*




Comparison with SSC'ed A2




No pointy Surefire bulb!


----------



## Greg_Jones (Apr 25, 2008)

greenpea76 said:


> *I got my lamp in today so I got some photos up for you guys.*



Thanks for posting the pictures. I'm still waiting for mine, but I would be unable to do a side-by-side comparison in any event. The beam shots look very similar, with a slightly hotter, tighter beam on the LF assembly-yes?. I'm curious as to what your overall impression is for this lamp-is it a worthy upgrade?


----------



## SunStar (Apr 25, 2008)

Yea... the beamshots look very similar. I'd be interested to know if throw is extended with the LF lamp. Judging from the LF hotspot, it seems that that could be the case.


----------



## greenpea76 (Apr 25, 2008)

Honestly, I'm not sure I would just rush out and buy one as I did out of curiosity. 
The beam is tighter and brighter at distances (throw) at the cost of slightly shorter runtime, but I can't say I was overly impressed with it. With respect to Mark and Lumens Factory, the unit is worth every penny and is brighter, but how many "casual flashoholics" like myself, will notice that this LA is brighter than the Surefire LA unless the two were compared side by side, unless you are an individual that truly believes in "brighter is ALWAYS better". I am not one of the these "thinkers", and was not expecting any type of "blown away" performance, but for just a tad over US 21 dollars including shipping, it is a bargain compared to the original Surefire LA. Just some honest thoughts and opinion.

As a replacement when the original bulb goes out, I would rather have a LumensFactory assembly over the Surefire version as the quality and potting is much nicer than the 3 Surefire A2 bulbs I've had. This is not some overpriced lamp assembly as there is some really nice machining present and alignment of the bulb is precise. You can see in the photos how the original Surefire LA is oval in shape due to the bulb being cocked off to the side when potted @ the factory. Surefire QC vs Lumens Factory QC? I don't know about the runtime figures with this bulb yet due to lack of flashlight testing experience. I'll let the regular flashaholics with more in-depth knowledge post the test results. I still think I'll end up using my SSC'ed A2 https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194348 more than the LumensFactory equipped A2 due to the SF KL4 like performance and having the throw. I love the true incan whiteness of the LF HO-A2, but I prefer runtime in real-world usage, hence the sacreligious modification.

*Oh, I failed to mention that this lamp assembly gets HOT!! Only after a couple of minutes of runtime, the head got warmer than I have ever felt any of my A2's.*


----------



## greenpea76 (Apr 25, 2008)

SunStar said:


> Yea... the beamshots look very similar. I'd be interested to know if throw is extended with the LF lamp. Judging from the LF hotspot, it seems that that could be the case.


 
I'll try to get some distance beamshots tonight.


----------



## js (Apr 25, 2008)

greenpea76 said:


> . . .
> 
> You can see in the photos how the original Surefire LA is oval in shape due to the bulb being cocked off to the side when potted @ the factory. Surefire QC vs Lumens Factory QC?
> 
> . . .



No. The oval shape of the hotspot is *not* due to misalignment of the filament. That is intentional. It is a consequence of the filament being positioned for maximum throw.

And keep in mind that it is the _filament_ that needs to be positioned and not the _glass envelope_. So if the filament is off-center with respect to the envelope, then the best potting job would have the glass envelope looking a bit skewed. But that isn't what counts.

All of that said, I'm not saying that SF has better or worse QC than LF. Only that the oval shape of the A2 LA is a designed in, and not the result of poor QC.


----------



## Wattnot (Apr 25, 2008)

I agree that the above beamshots aren't as impressive as I'm sure everyone had hoped . . . but even the stock A2's incan impresses at a distance. Those beamshots are pretty close and it already appears, from the hotspot of the LF, that the throw will be nice. This will make for an excellent replacement when my stock A2 lamp dies.


----------



## greenpea76 (Apr 25, 2008)

js said:


> No. The oval shape of the hotspot is *not* due to misalignment of the filament. That is intentional. It is a consequence of the filament being positioned for maximum throw.
> 
> And keep in mind that it is the _filament_ that needs to be positioned and not the _glass envelope_. So if the filament is off-center with respect to the envelope, then the best potting job would have the glass envelope looking a bit skewed. But that isn't what counts.
> 
> All of that said, I'm not saying that SF has better or worse QC than LF. Only that the oval shape of the A2 LA is a designed in, and not the result of poor QC.


 
JS, I stand corrected. Thanks for the information from the A2 guru himself. I enjoyed reading all the informative threads that you've posted in the past. 
I only thought it was manufacturing related because the beams on my two remaining SF lamps are oval, but have a centered hotspot so I thought it may have been QC because I did try rotating to no avail, one of the A2 bulbs (the donor for the SSC pill) without ever getting a nice centered beam. It wasn't just oval, the hotspot was actually off center and not projecting properly. I guess it was just one bad alignment of filament when it was potted. I would turn the light on and the beam would point away from center. I didn't bother trying to warranty it. Just dissected it for my sick experiment.


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## LED61 (Apr 25, 2008)

Thanks guys for posting the pics and comments. I admire Mark's work, but judging from his comments regarding the challenges that the development of this lamp posed, plus the very similar performance to the stock lamp, well that just tells me there is not a whole lot more room to make things better than Surefire already did when they designed the A2, as of course JS has extensively pointed out.


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 27, 2008)

I've been using my Strion-upgraded A2 nightly for the past four weeks.

Used my HO-A2 during my hour-long walk around the nearby lake late last night. *Outdoors*, this is brighter than the Strion. Whereas the Strion's beam is small, tight, perfectly round, the HO-A2's is larger and oval-shaped, similar to my other LF lamps. To me, it clearly has better throw.

I was pleased with the improvement from the MA02 to the Strion. After an hour of playing *indoors *with my A2, switching back & forth between Strion & HO-A2, I feel real good about this purchase.

Thanks Mark! :thumbsup:

G


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## senna94 (Apr 27, 2008)

Great news Gunnerboy!!!! I am glad you did a real world outdoors test and impression of the HO-A2. White wall tests are fine,but I am going to mainly use mine outdoors and appreciate the info.
:thumbsup:


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## ampdude (Apr 27, 2008)

I do wish Lumens Factory would stop frosting their bulbs. I know many people will disagree with me, but I prefer an unfrosted bulb. I'm okay with a little more output and throw at the expense of beam shape.

This lamp assembly looks AWESOME!!!


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2008)

Thanks for the great comments guys.

Yes, the lamp is designed towards throw as all our other lamps.
The difference in output is most noticeable during outdoor use.

Ampdude,

It would be better for us to not frost the lamp, too. It will save a lot of time and save some labour cost, but then the spot pattern will not look so good.

If we are going to target users like you who prefers the max output and throw and doesn't mind a little artifacts in the spot, then mirror finish reflectors with an unpotted lamp is the way to go. 

Cheers,

Mark


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## ampdude (Apr 27, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Ampdude,
> 
> It would be better for us to not frost the lamp, too. It will save a lot of time and save some labour cost, but then the spot pattern will not look so good.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply Mark. My favorite lamp assemblies have light orange peel reflectors and unfrosted bulbs. I like the best of both worlds. 

And I really like the unfrosted Sure-Fire P61's and P90's.

And of course I love the HO-9 both outdoors and indoors. :twothumbs


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## DM51 (Apr 28, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> It would be better for us to not frost the lamp, too. It will save a lot of time and save some labour cost, but then the spot pattern will not look so good.


Mark, have you tested an unfrosted version of your LA in the A2? I think you may well find the beam pattern is just as good, and output should increase too.


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 29, 2008)

Mark,

Can you be persuaded to produce a small "trial" batch of non-frosted HO-A2's? I would be interested in one. :naughty:

Gary


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## [email protected] (Apr 29, 2008)

Gunnerboy, you too? :laughing:

I have just tested an unfrosted lamp on the A2, it is indeed brighter especially at the hotspot, it also looks whiter comparing to the frosted lamp.
But I noticed a ring in the beam at less then 3 feet, at distences more then 3 feet the ring is unnoticable.

So I don't know, it depends on personal preferance I guess.
I will see what I can do though, we always try to please you guys the best we can. 

I might make a bunch "on request", but definately NO bi*ching if you don't like the beam. 

Cheers. 

Mark


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Mark,

I prefer your lamps frosted, but the thought of having a bit more throw from my A2, particularly for outdoor use, does interest me.

Just let me know when to send payment for one unfrosted lamp! 

Thanks,
Gary


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## ampdude (Apr 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Gunnerboy, you too? :laughing:
> 
> I have just tested an unfrosted lamp on the A2, it is indeed brighter especially at the hotspot, it also looks whiter comparing to the frosted lamp.
> But I noticed a ring in the beam at less then 3 feet, at distences more then 3 feet the ring is unnoticable.
> ...



Mark, thanks! sounds excellent! :twothumbs


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## DM51 (Apr 29, 2008)

I think A2 owners will go for this if it means a brighter and whiter beam. I would certainly like an unfrosted version. 

An A2 isn't exactly meant for white wall hunting at 3 feet.


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## ampdude (Apr 29, 2008)

I would be all over an unfrosted HO-9.


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## greenpea76 (Apr 29, 2008)

DM51 said:


> An A2 isn't exactly meant for white wall hunting at 3 feet.


 
I need to get out of this 3 foot wide box then


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## Tronic (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Mark

I would also take a unfrosted A2 lamp. 

For lighting less then 3 feet we have the LEDs and if I use the incan I want throw! 

-Daniel


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## RichS (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm in for an unfrosted bulb too!


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## Wattnot (Apr 29, 2008)

I vote UNfrosted (clear) too.


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## dudemar (Apr 29, 2008)

My vote for an unfrosted bulb as well.:wave:


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## cue003 (Apr 30, 2008)

I am in for unfrosted A2 lamp assembly....

Where do we get it?

Curtis


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## js (Apr 30, 2008)

I think unfrosted is the way to go in the case of A2 owners. As mentioned, as a lot, we generally go for function and performance over aesthetics. Both the LED and the stock incan beam of the A2 aren't made for white wall viewing. So, the LF version would be in line with that.

But, how hard would it be to offer both choices?


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## js (Apr 30, 2008)

cue003 said:


> I am in for unfrosted A2 lamp assembly....
> 
> Where do we get it?
> 
> Curtis



www.lumensfactory.com or one of their dealers.


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## [email protected] (Apr 30, 2008)

This is crazy......

Ok you guys have convinced me, I will arrange 30 pcs as limited edition unfrosted version of the HO-A2. 

Once these are gone there will be no more.
Give me a week or two to make them please.

Thanks.

Mark


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks Mark!


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## greenpea76 (Apr 30, 2008)

Here are some dark areas of LA. There is a dirt lot next to me 80 feet wide to my neighbor's garage door. Since there seems to be comments about whitewall shots, here are some outdoors distance shots. Make out what you will with these.


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## Aussie Cheese (Apr 30, 2008)

lol, how are we going to order them? 

i am in for 1 maybe 2



[email protected] said:


> This is crazy......
> 
> Ok you guys have convinced me, I will arrange 30 pcs as limited edition unfrosted version of the HO-A2.
> 
> ...


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## Cowley (Apr 30, 2008)

If you are taking pre-orders please put me down for 2.

Thanks!


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## Hawkeye62 (Apr 30, 2008)

Mark, I'm in for 1 also. How to order. Call lighthound? Mark let us know when they are ready.. Thanks..


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## ampdude (Apr 30, 2008)

Since this was my idea, I think I'm entitled to at least 3 of them. 

Paypal at the ready.

:twothumbs


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## IcantC (Apr 30, 2008)

I am down for one unfrosted!


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## socom1970 (Apr 30, 2008)

Never mind... I see they are at lighthound.com. Thanks, Mark and LumensFactory for all your hard work!


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## Wattnot (Apr 30, 2008)

Cool. I was in no rush for one but since you're doing this for us, I guess I'll take one !! (UNfrosted, of course!)


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## rgp4544 (May 1, 2008)

I'd like an unfrosted one too and would like to know where to get it. Already ordered the frosted model.


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## [email protected] (May 1, 2008)

Hi Guys,

Okay, there seems to be a lot of guys that wants the unfrosted model.

I don't want to turn this thread into a Sales Thread, so please sent an email to me directly at: [email protected]

Your email's title would be: I want an unfrosted A2 lamp.
Then I will make a list of people who whants this and contact you in a week or 2 when the lamp is done.

Cheers.

Mark


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## DM51 (May 1, 2008)

Excellent - e-mail sent.


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## ampdude (May 1, 2008)

email sent Mark. :thumbsup:


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## shroomy (May 1, 2008)

If these sell out fast enough is there any chance of them being put into regular production? From the sound of this thread the unfrosted ones might sell quicker than the frosted ones.


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## Gunnerboy (May 1, 2008)

Hi Mark,

Payment & email sent, per our arrangement.

Cheers,
Gary


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## [email protected] (May 1, 2008)

Got everything, I have made a list already, so those will be placed aside for the guys that has requested the unfrosted versions.

Thanks.


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## dudemar (May 2, 2008)

Email sent for 2 unfrosties. Can't wait to get 'em.


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## Patriot (May 2, 2008)

I would also like to get an unfrosted bulb if still possible.

Thanks


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## Patriot (May 2, 2008)

I've been scanning this thread for an estimated run-time for the HO-A2 without any luck. The run-time also isn't listed in the specs at Lighthound.

Anybody know?

Thanks


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## LA OZ (May 2, 2008)

I give in, I will also want one unfrosted bulb. :thumbsup:


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## Taboot (May 2, 2008)

email sent.:twothumbs


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## dudemar (May 2, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> I've been scanning this thread for an estimated run-time for the HO-A2 without any luck. The run-time also isn't listed in the specs at Lighthound.
> 
> Anybody know?
> 
> Thanks



Here's the LF website specs:

Runtime (2 x CR123A): ~40 min


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## GRoLED (May 4, 2008)

Another e-mail sent for a couple of unfrosted lamps :twothumbs

Thanks.


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## [email protected] (May 5, 2008)

Hi Guys,

Here is the list so far:

1. David M.
2. Chee T.
3. Jason (Ampdude)
4. Curtis S.
5. Greg J.
6. Richard M.
7. Tom (Silverfox)
8. Richard S.
9. Michael W.
10. Tom L.
11. Jack F.
12. Daniel B.
13. Felix E.
14. Stephen P.
15. Cary T.
16. Curtis E.
17. Graeme R.
18. Pete W.
19. Fred H.

The quantities adds up to 30 pcs. (edited)

That means: Sold Out (edited)

Thanks guys. 

Mark


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## NetMage (May 5, 2008)

Email sent for one.


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## Phredd (May 5, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> That means: *1 *left (edited)
> one left.



Okay, I'll take the last one. Order placed. (e-mail sent)


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## [email protected] (May 5, 2008)

Thanks guys,

The limited run of the Unfrosted version is now offically SOLD OUT.

Cheers, :laughing:

Mark


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## ampdude (May 5, 2008)

Mark, if these go over well, which I believe they will, I hope they can become a regular production item.

Thanks for doing this run for us.


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## dudemar (May 5, 2008)

ampdude said:


> Mark, if these go over well, which I believe they will, I hope they can become a regular production item.
> 
> Thanks for doing this run for us.



Ditto. I have a good feeling about this bulb.


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## Patriot (May 5, 2008)

dudemar said:


> Here's the LF website specs:
> 
> Runtime (2 x CR123A): ~40 min




Thanks dudemar. 





Mark, I also posted (#215) to reserve a bulb before you posted the interest list but....maybe I was too late?


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## [email protected] (May 6, 2008)

Patriot36,

Please see PM.

Thanks

Mark


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## Cowley (May 6, 2008)

Mark,

I thought that I'd reserved a couple of the unfrosted A2 lamps in my post #201. I checked the thread and saw that I was not on the list, and discovered that you subsequently requested a PM instead of listing on the thread. Please let me know if you have any extras.

Thanks,

Cowley


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## [email protected] (May 6, 2008)

Cowley, please see PM.

For everybody that I might have missed:

Please sent an email to me at [email protected]
I might have missed you because I do not know who is who on CPF as people used their real names instead of the CPF ID on the emails.

Please give me your real name and CPF ID on your email.

If I have missed you, please give me a shout and you will get what you have reserved. 

Thanks

Mark


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## Aussie Cheese (May 6, 2008)

careful mark, it could get out of control :lolsign:


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## Unforgiven (May 6, 2008)

How did we miss this one for so long? 



[email protected],

As a dealer/manufacture you are required to use the appropriate forum with a subscription at the Market Place for commerce. (Sales) I.E. The Incandescent Flashlights and other forums on CPF proper are not to be used as sales forums.

A new thread may be started at the Market Place with the appropriate subscription.

Thread closed.


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