# Project-M by Milkyspit: High Output with Extreme Efficiency! Info Thread Part 2



## milkyspit (Sep 20, 2007)

_*This is a continuation* of the Project-M thread started by Knight Lights. You can find that one over here...
Project-M by Milkyspit: Long-Running High Output LED: Availability, Info, Photos_

*[size=+1]What's Project-M? (Summary)[/size]*

*Project-M is a family of engineered lights...*

*...build an LED light that combines bright output with extreme efficiency and very long runtimes. It's not about this or that magic component, but rather the synergies possible in a well-engineered (hopefully!) whole...*

*...instinctively find myself reaching for this light more than for any other... and believe me when I say there are some excellent choices around here! But there's something very compelling... The whole really is more than the sum of its parts, and a certain synergy takes over...*

Read more in the original project post, copied at the bottom of this one.

*[size=+1]Gallery (Some Examples)[/size]*

































































































*[size=+1]Project-M Master Runtime Chart[/size]*











*[size=+1]Additional Runtime Charts[/size]*

_At the time Leef did his runtime test, the M180 was among the best-available Project-M lights. Since then, additional choices have emerged. One example: the M273 will achieve runtimes virtually identical to what Leef has charted below, but does so while generating 273 lumens rather than the 180 of Leef's light._

Fellow CPFer Leef took the time to chart runtime of his M180-KL2 head and the better of his two SureFire L6 flashlights. Both flashlights were running 3x123 fresh SureFire 123 cells. The charts show overall output of both lights and seem to approximate actual lumen output of the lights (divide his readings by ten). Note: according to Leef, the SureFire L6 in the test is an unusually good one.


*Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 with Various Battery Options (Linear Scale)*





*Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 vs. SF-L6 (Linear Scale)*





*Overall Output vs. Runtime, M180-KL2 vs. SF-L6 (Logarithmic Scale)*
_The logarithmic scale approximates the brightness differences that the human eye actually sees._





Leef states that at the 240 minute mark, both test subjects were still generating useful amounts of light.[/QUOTE]

*[size=+1]Project-M BuildAssist Checklist, Version 1![/size]*

While answering a fellow CPFer via PM, it occurred to me that some sort of checklist might help folks get their hands around specifically what sort of build they might want... hopefully it will help both customer and me to be on the same page as far as where to expend the most energy in designing their light. I'm honestly not sure if I've got it right yet, but here's a start... :thinking:

1. What size does this light need to be? Is that a firm requirement, or your ideal scenario? How much of an issue would it be to build something of a slightly different size than the ideal?

2. Which head needs to be used? Either a specific head, or an example of how big. Is this a specific requirement or the ideal... if the latter, how much of an issue would it be to build something using a little smaller or larger head?

3. What sort of output are you looking for in terms of minimum and/or maximum?

4. What battery configuration would be most important?

5. What other battery configurations would you need to support, in order of importance? Are these must-have configurations or ones you'd like to have, but maybe don't absolutely need?

6. What are your budget constraints?

7. Please rank these from most important to least important: multi-brightness capability; ability to run with the widest-possible variety of battery configurations; maximal operating efficiency.

8. Are you willing to limit the potential brightness of your light to make it more stable (able to run continuously from start to finish with no heat issues, ability to operate on badly depleted cells, etc.)... or would you prefer to go for the brightest thing possible at the cost of it possibly only being able to run for 15-20 minutes or so at a time?

*[size=+1]Ordering?[/size]*

Project-M lights are generally made to order, which allows me to create the best-possible fit with you and your intended mission for the light. Please contact me by either PM or email...






You could also post in this thread.

*[size=+1]Another satisfied Project-M customer! [/size]*






*[size=+1]ORIGINAL PROJECT-M POST: What's Project-M All About? A Recap.[/size]*

*(Posted the original explanation of what Project-M seeks to achieve in the original thread for one of these lights from quite some time ago. As it occurred to me that many folks probably never saw it, and I don't expect them to scour CPF in search of such a thing, it appears below in excerpted form. For the complete, unabridged version, take a look over here!)*

*[size=+1]O[/size]*nce upon a time there was an old lady who had a lot of cats and lived alone in her unobtrusive little country cottage. Seriously. In those days I used to revel in snow days, not so much for not having to go to school, but because they represented a financial windfall! In a good morning's work I could earn $20 shoveling snow at three of the neighbors' homes... and my biggest customer was Mrs. Allmansberger, the elderly cat lady.

I can read your mind, kind reader! "So what the heck does Milky's crazy cat lady have to do with high end lights?" Please, pull up a comfy chair and let me tell you, dear friend. 

My father was cut from old-school cloth... "there's a right way and a wrong way to EVERYTHING, son..." even shoveling snow. I won't bore you with details but suffice to say, I was out there laboring hard, doing quite the professional job of hand shoveling (which to this day I'll defend as totally superior to any plowed or snowblown work! although also far more laborious of course) as my father had so expertly taught me... and out came Mrs. Allmansberger, clad in her signature weatherbeaten coat and black rubbers (when "rubbers" most commonly referred to footwear for inclement weather, and NOT anything sexual)... this itself was unusual as typically my sole interaction with the woman was when she reached out her split-level window to reach down with my payment... she watched for a time, then made this infamous statement: "We don't need an engineer on the job."

I later graduated from Princeton University with an engineering degree.

"So what does this have to do with FLASHLIGHTS! Show me the beef!" you say. Please, read on! 

I've long been overshadowed even at PhotonFest, my own event for goodness sake! because the lights I design tend to be ENGINEERED and don't impress... my personal definition of engineering is the study and application of compromises to achieve the most desirable whole. So my lights aren't brightest, nor largest, nor smallest, nor the strangest colors, nor capable of igniting one's hair... no mine are only reasonably compact lights with good output and decently long runtime, the sort I personally prefer for a good walk through the woods or down to the quarry behind my house. The PhotonFest attendees, God bless them, are very polite... they take the requisite time thoughtfully examining my creations... then move on to the Thors, crazy supercharged HIDs, teeny Larry-inspired lights, big 22x18650 bird cooker headlight-on-a-stick mods (seriously, this exists!), and many, many more. And those lights are impressive, they're fun to play around with! I love seeing all the great stuff folks bring around. Sadly, my small milky fleet gets left far behind.

Now given all the above, which hopefully was at least mildly entertaining...

*Project-M is a family of engineered lights.*

I've been working on what I call Project-M for a while now, developing the concept bit by bit... folks at PF6 saw the M180, an early prototype. A few of you have even, very quietly, purchased M180s though they haven't even been officially announced prior to now. The concept is this: build an LED light that combines bright output with extreme efficiency and very long runtimes. It's not about this or that magic component, but rather the synergies possible in a well-engineered (hopefully!) whole.

Now I am proud to introduce the smallest member of the family, a very rare breed, built into some pristine long-defunct SureFire LED heads and suitable for attachment to an M3 or M6 body...

*The M180-KL2.* *(note: as of this post, the M273-KL2 runs as long as the M180-KL2 but with 273 lumens output.)*

Some basics: the M180-KL2 generates, on average, *180 lumens* overall output continuously, in perfectly flat regulation, for *at least 2.5 hours* off 3x123 primaries or 2x17500 protected 1100mAh Li-ion rechargeables. The beam tint is XO or WO depending on specific choice of emitters. (I personally prefer the XO tint.) The head is very efficient and although it's well heatsinked, will tend NOT to generate much heat at all... in fact, even including converter inefficiency, it draws only 3.7 watts or so of power, which is less than many single LuxIII mods consume. :naughty:

Some photos...
















The head is more-or-less identical from the outside to a typical M3 incan head, but inside is another story.  The M180-KL2 won't win any throw contests against the SureFire lamp assemblies and yet it IS a good thrower... on the straight stretch of road in front of my home, I can illuminate a good 100 yards or so down the road, maybe more. What's interesting here is this head ALSO pumps out quite a bit of bright sidespill, and the tint is about as neutral white as any LED that I've ever had the pleasure of seeing... was extremely fortunate to source a terrific little stash of emitters for this project. 

For comparison, SureFire rates the M3 LOLA at 125 lumens for 60 minutes, and the M3 HOLA at 225 lumens for 20 minutes. The M180-KL2 compares favorably with its 180 lumens regulated for 150+ minutes.







In the photo above of my front porch, the image to left is of course the baseline, unilluminated porch, while image at right shows the M180-KL2 in action. Worth noting that these photos took place during midday on a bright, sunny summer day, so the M180-KL2 was competing with quite a bit of ambient light to begin with! For reference, the distance across the front porch is something along the lines of 20 feet from where I was sitting during the test. BTW, the beam color really IS that white. Note the hotspot hitting the valence over the far window.






The ceiling (not floor!) beamshot does a decent job of showing the combination of flood and throw in the M180 beam. The three emitters do a nice job of collimating into a single, beefy superbeam, and even from 3 feet out, the hotspot looks perfectly round, with nothing to give away the fact that three emitters produced it.






The posterized views (above and below) show falloff of intensity from the central hotspot outward... the photo below is a bit more closeup than the one above. Note that the oval, off-center look is NOT an artifact of the light, but rather an artifact of ME! I was holding the light slightly crooked while trying to juggle both that and the camera to take the shots. Please excuse! 






For closers, a shot of the M180-KL2 doing its best to burn a hole in the carpet. It will fail of course. 






I can honestly say the M180-KL2 is a true workhorse light. Best testimonial on my part is that I instinctively find myself reaching for this light more than for any other... and believe me when I say there are some excellent choices around here! But there's something very compelling about the M180-KL2. The whole really is more than the sum of its parts, and a certain synergy takes over...

It's a product of some decent engineering I guess... hope Mrs. Allmansberger won't mind! 

Or maybe put in the simplest terms: I like it. 

Thanks for sharing... and for the stamina in reading to the very end! CPFers rule.
:bow: :bow: :bow:


-=-=-=-=-=-

*[size=+2]How To Contact Milkyspit![/size]*

In general, a PM on CPF is a good way to reach me, though there are occasions when this won't work... perhaps PM Inbox is full, perhaps CPF is having a hiccup...

If you can't get a PM sent on CPF, you might want to send one to me on CPF Marketplace. I monitor both.

Or you could send me an email... I suggest you put the word 'CPF' somewhere in the subject line to make it easier for me to separate your email from all the spam...






Regarding phone calls: I don't provide my phone number publicly but if you're unable to reach me by the above means, you might want to get my phone number from a fellow CPFer, there are several who know how to reach me. Or have them call me, give them a way I can get back to you (phone number and/or email address), and I'll get in touch as soon as I can. Sometimes a call is the best approach, though in many cases I would encourage you to try PM and/or email first.

If all else fails, post in this thread that you're trying to reach me. No need for details posted here, but at least I'll know I need to reach out to you!

Note: I do use Skype, which is potentially a useful way of doing a text chat... and I can call from Skype on my computer to a phone number pretty much anywhere in the world, so providing me with YOUR phone number would enable me to call YOU. Again, the above means of contact are probably preferable, but if it comes to it, this might be yet another way!

Hope this helps a bit.


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## milkyspit (Sep 20, 2007)

*[size=+1]Reserved for Future Photos, Runtimes, Additional Info.[/size]*


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## milkyspit (Sep 20, 2007)

Reserved for Future Photos, Runtimes, and Additional Info.


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## Manzerick (Sep 20, 2007)

Looking good!!


I love my "M" type Floody McGee!!!


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## monkeyboy (Sep 21, 2007)

Hi Milky

Any updates? I'm still interested in the tri-cree M3 build.


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## Grun (Sep 24, 2007)

I am still fairly new to the boards, and have heard good things about Milkyspit. What exactly is going on? Do I purchase a mod, and do it myself, or do I send a torch to Milkyspit? How do prices work? 

:candle:


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## milkyspit (Sep 24, 2007)

monkeyboy said:


> Hi Milky
> 
> Any updates? I'm still interested in the tri-cree M3 build.




Monkeyboy, all I can find from you is a PM dated July 23rd. Yikes! Is that really the most recent communication you've sent, or did something more recent somehow disappear? I'll reply to that one but if I'm missing something, please resend when you have a chance.


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## milkyspit (Sep 24, 2007)

Grun said:


> I am still fairly new to the boards, and have heard good things about Milkyspit. What exactly is going on? Do I purchase a mod, and do it myself, or do I send a torch to Milkyspit? How do prices work?
> 
> :candle:




Hi Grun, Project M is a family of lights that I've been building for a while now. It's not a kit, I do all the work, and you have a choice of sending a light you already own to have something built into that, or having me acquire a light for your build then sending everything to you when finished. Pricing varies considerably depending on which flashlight might host the build, what sort and number of components are involved, how much time it takes to complete the work, and other factors. I build these to order, meaning a customer such as yourself would explain your needs to me, or the 'mission' of the light, or what your hope is in terms of type of result... I help you identify a design likely to meet your needs and determine the cost for your specific light, and if you're comfortable with the above, we move forward. I can tell you in general that the least expensive Project-M build is probably just a bit under $100... let's say $95... and the most expensive so far has been around $600... note the latter actually included ordering a complete, brand new SureFire M6 for the customer, which cost nearly half the budget before I even got to work! The point is, it's likely I can work with you to get something compelling done in whatever your budget might be.

I would encourage you to read this and other threads about these lights (part one of the Project-M thread is *over here*) and whenever you might feel comfortable considering one of these builds, or anything else I might help with for that matter, send me PM or email me here...






BTW, welcome to CPF!


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## milkyspit (Sep 25, 2007)

monkeyboy said:


> Hi Milky
> 
> Any updates? I'm still interested in the tri-cree M3 build.




Monkeyboy, PM replied. M458-M3? :thumbsup:


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## milkyspit (Oct 1, 2007)

*[size=+1]More Builds, New Runtimes![/size]*

Just posted a major revision to the Project-M master runtime chart: the runtimes have been reorganized by battery configuration rather than host for easier lookups; there's additional explanatory info in the header; and there are several *new family members* based on additional emitter types. Hope this helps folks in making their build decisions. Remember, too, that many more configurations are possible than what's shown on the chart... if you want an M- or X-light but don't see it on the chart, just ask! There's a good chance we can make it work. :thumbsup:

Here's the new chart...






Note: the chart is dated October 1, 2007, 9:12am, in the upper right corner. If you see an earlier version, you may need to refresh your browser.


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## skalomax (Oct 1, 2007)

Niiiiice!

My poor seouls look like little leaguers now. 

btw, PM inbox full


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## milkyspit (Oct 1, 2007)

skalomax said:


> Niiiiice!
> 
> My poor seouls look like little leaguers now.




Oh, I don't know, Skalo. The Seouls are still plenty bright, and remember, we're at the tail end of a release cycle for them... the V-flux Seouls will make things miiiiighty interesting! :naughty:

Meanwhile, there are several scenarios where the Cree just won't do, nice as they may be: for starters, they're not Lambertian and require a deeper reflector for proper focusing... that often disqualifies them for retrofits to existing lights... meanwhile, the Seouls typically drop in those lights without incident, maybe requiring some minor refocusing but not much more than that. Then there's that dreaded Cree shadow ring... the Seouls are capable of a much more uniform beam pattern. And the Rebel, for all its promise, is a real bear to work with... it requires reflow soldering and needs manual shimming and centering to be mounted properly in the larger reflectors...

Not sure it matters, but for my part I continue to use the Seouls in most of my personal builds, and don't see that changing anytime soon. They do the job and do it well, it's that simple. :thumbsup:

Looking at the larger picture, part of my job is to stay on top of these things and help folks make the best choices whether it's in modifying their existing lights, or building a completely new one! :sweat:

And looking at the even LARGER picture, this is all a good problem to have IMHO... do I use a really bright emitter with perfect beam pattern, or an even brighter one with a couple rings in the beam... or maybe that other little sleeper that keeps up with the other two while being only a fraction of their size! We live in wonderful times for flashaholism.


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## Nebula (Oct 1, 2007)

Skalo you should look at the bright side crackup. You don't keep your lights long enough for them to be sent down to the minors . Kirk 



skalomax said:


> Niiiiice!
> 
> My poor seouls look like little leaguers now.
> 
> btw, PM inbox full


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## Delghi (Oct 1, 2007)

Hello Scott,

I'm still waiting your availability to build the KL2 head mod anyway I'd like a few other projects to discuss with you

Sent another mail with details hope to here something from you soon


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## Brozneo (Oct 2, 2007)

Hey Scott,

Just wondering if its possible to get the M6 (M1068) build done running on 2x3 123a Primaries - so all Im after would be a KT4 turbohead with the LEDs built in... Just wondering the cost / do-ability of this?


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## milkyspit (Oct 2, 2007)

Brozneo said:


> Hey Scott,
> 
> Just wondering if its possible to get the M6 (M1068) build done running on 2x3 123a Primaries - so all Im after would be a KT4 turbohead with the LEDs built in... Just wondering the cost / do-ability of this?




Brozneo, yes, that's definitely workable and would offer a runtime of about an hour in regulation, followed by gradual dimming. Pricing tends to vary based on the build specifics, but you're most likely looking at a ballpark of $225-375. Parts expense alone is a big chunk of that. As for the do-ability... I've built similar lights in the past and see no problem with making it happen. Let me know if you're interested! :thumbsup:


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## Brozneo (Oct 2, 2007)

Excellent Scott - Email Sent!


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## skalomax (Oct 2, 2007)

Scott, Do you have any TM ready to be built? (Seoul)


thanks


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## milkyspit (Oct 4, 2007)

Posted some contact info in the first post, hope some might find it useful...



> *[size=+2]How To Contact Milkyspit![/size]*
> 
> In general, a PM on CPF is a good way to reach me, though there are occasions when this won't work... perhaps PM Inbox is full, perhaps CPF is having a hiccup...
> 
> ...





skalomax said:


> Scott, Do you have any TM ready to be built? (Seoul)
> 
> 
> thanks



Skalo, I haven't had my caffeine yet and am drawing a blank here. What does 'TM' mean?


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## skalomax (Oct 4, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> Posted some contact info in the first post, hope some might find it useful...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Towermodules. :thumbsup:


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## Delghi (Oct 4, 2007)




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## milkyspit (Oct 4, 2007)

skalomax said:


> Towermodules. :thumbsup:




Skalo, I've got a couple of the empty AW tower kits that we could build into. Give me a call whenever convenient. :thumbsup:


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## skalomax (Oct 4, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> Skalo, I've got a couple of the empty AW tower kits that we could build into. Give me a call whenever convenient. :thumbsup:


 
I've got something in mind that we've discussed before.

I'll call in about 10min.


thanks


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## skalomax (Oct 5, 2007)

Scott have you had any success modding streamlight Propolymer Luxeons?

thanks


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## milkyspit (Oct 6, 2007)

skalomax said:


> Scott have you had any success modding streamlight Propolymer Luxeons?
> 
> thanks




Skalo, to be honest, haven't tried yet... but there's no reason to think it couldn't be done. :thumbsup:


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## skalomax (Oct 6, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> Skalo, to be honest, haven't tried yet... but there's no reason to think it couldn't be done. :thumbsup:


Guess I'll be sending you that and a Surefire U2 to be seoul'ed!


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## Delghi (Oct 7, 2007)

Hello Scott,
I think it's a month now since I contacted you first time but I never received any reply yet :sigh:
Did you get my pm/emails?

Thanks again
David


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## Mash (Oct 7, 2007)

How flexible are the drivers in terms of the Vin?
For example if you have a 2X18650 host, can you drop in 4X123s? Or are the drivers tailored tightly to the battery requested?
And I presume each version (according to number of LEDs) has a different driver?
Lastly, can you run the multi LED versions easily for a long time? Or will heat build up become an issue (depending on the host of course!)?


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## milkyspit (Oct 9, 2007)

Mash said:


> How flexible are the drivers in terms of the Vin?
> For example if you have a 2X18650 host, can you drop in 4X123s? Or are the drivers tailored tightly to the battery requested?
> And I presume each version (according to number of LEDs) has a different driver?
> Lastly, can you run the multi LED versions easily for a long time? Or will heat build up become an issue (depending on the host of course!)?




Mash, Project-M is a family of lights and as such there are multiple drivers I could use... the best starting point is to understand which battery configurations you might hope to support, and design the light from there. I can tell you that in general, the more efficient the circuitry, the tighter the match with battery configuration... put another way, flexibility in terms of power source comes with some degree of loss in terms of efficiency.

As for runtime, the Project-M lights are designed to support long continuous runs at the rated output, so no worries there. Also, the circuitry will typically incorporate some form of thermal protection to keep from frying the boards themselves in a worst-case scenario. Note that some of the X (extreme) variants of these lights might not run well for extended time periods... there are some folks around CPF who willingly request this tradeoff to get the biggest, baddest light they can muster. 

Bottom line, it's your call on these operational parameters! I can build you a crazy 'wow' light, or I can build you a light that delivers a balance of performance, runtime, low heat, high efficiency, and long service life... it's your call.


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 9, 2007)

Scott,your message box is full.


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## milkyspit (Oct 9, 2007)

TITAN1833 said:


> Scott,your message box is full.




Yup, I've been cleaning it out but as soon as I have to do something frivolous like eat, sleep, or spend quality time with the family, it seemingly insta-fills again! Sometimes I let it sit at 100 to get some time to complete builds. 

Seriously, though, I got your PM over at the Marketplace, so no worries... and for others who ever find my CPF Inbox full, check the top post of this thread for info on alternate ways to reach me.

Thanks all! :wave:


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## Nebula (Oct 10, 2007)

Scott - I sent you a note to the QR addy. Kirk


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## Delghi (Oct 15, 2007)

Hi Scott , any idea when you will get time to contact me back?
:thanks:


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## Delghi (Oct 25, 2007)




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## milkyspit (Nov 12, 2007)

*[size=+1]REBELLiON Is Born (a.k.a. M963-KL2)[/size]*

Just completed the first M963-KL2 build and got a chance to runtime test it. This head incorporates 7x Rebel-100 emitters with McR10-R reflectors and dual-redundant circuitry to generate 963 lumens. The bonus? It's Project-M compliant! Runs on 2x18650 AW Protected 2200mAh cells for roughly 68 minutes with near-flat regulation. Here's the runtime chart...







The dual-redundant circuitry means at least 3x emitters will continue to run despite any single failure to circuitry or emitters... and as a side benefit, the system also operates as an early warning of an impending dead battery... as the cells weaken, 4x emitters will flicker a bit then shutdown toward the tail end of runtime, leaving 3x emitters operating and yielding a visible diminishment of light, yet still plenty bright for normal use... then the remaining 3x emitters will flicker a bit... then dim noticeably... and finally, continue to run at emergency lighting brightness for as long as the cells can support it. With protected cells, the protection circuitry would probably shutdown the system before this point... with primary 123 cells or unprotected cells, the system would continue to run until the bitter end.






Thread with additional details *over here*.

:naughty:


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## Mark620 (Dec 17, 2007)

:twothumbs:bow:

whats something like that cost??


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## milkyspit (Dec 18, 2007)

Mark620 said:


> :twothumbs:bow:
> 
> whats something like that cost??




Mark620, the truth is I don't recall exactly what that one cost... but in general, these builds end up anywhere from $195 through $495 depending on specifics, number of emitters, etc. I realize that's a wide range... please understand it covers everything from 3-emitter builds to 7-emitter builds using semi-exotic materials, such as Tellurium Copper heatsinks, with redundant circuits, top-end reflectors, plus other bells and whistles. We're covering a lot of ground here!

Would be my pleasure to build for you.


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## Mark620 (Dec 20, 2007)

I can tell your work is going to cost me in the future :thumbsup:


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## milkyspit (Dec 20, 2007)

*[size=+1]Updated Project-M Master Runtime Chart[/size]*

Added the new Luxeon K2-TFFC LED to the chart... you may need to refresh your browser window to see te new version...


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## Brozneo (Dec 20, 2007)

Hi Milky - PM's Sent about my M6 builds and the K2T!


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## skalomax (Dec 21, 2007)

You guys should be afraid, verrrry afraid. :devil:


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## milkyspit (Dec 22, 2007)

skalomax said:


> You guys should be afraid, verrrry afraid. :devil:




Skalo, it's alive. :naughty:

Remember, speak softly...


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## skalomax (Dec 22, 2007)

To tell you the truth, I'm a little afraid myself. :tinfoil:


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## ecache79 (Dec 23, 2007)

hey milky,

been trying to pm and email you. i'm not sure what the problem is. please email me [email protected]

thanks.


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## milkyspit (Dec 24, 2007)

ecache79 said:


> hey milky,
> 
> been trying to pm and email you. i'm not sure what the problem is. please email me [email protected]
> 
> thanks.




Ecache, I just replied to you via both email and PM. Hope that takes care of things. Give me a call if we need to straighten anything out, otherwise just confirm the info and we should be okay. Merry Christmas!


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## skhori (Dec 25, 2007)

Hi Milky, I've also been trying to E-Mail /PM you. Light/PPCASH sent.....Didu Receive? Pls reply to both :
[email protected] and [email protected]

Happy Holidays!!!!
Steve


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## milkyspit (Dec 27, 2007)

skhori said:


> Hi Milky, I've also been trying to E-Mail /PM you. Light/PPCASH sent.....Didu Receive? Pls reply to both :
> [email protected] and [email protected]
> 
> Happy Holidays!!!!
> Steve




Steve, got your light today and finished the mod... it's in the mail right now. Enjoy! :thumbsup:


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## adamlau (Dec 29, 2007)

Can you work with a KT2? If so, what LED setup (would prefer Q5) would you recommend for a decent KT2 thrower powered by 2x17500, or 2x17670?


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## kaduku (Dec 29, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> Steve, got your light today and finished the mod... it's in the mail right now. Enjoy! :thumbsup:


 
Sent you PM


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## nakahoshi (Dec 29, 2007)

PM*SENT


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## paulr (Dec 30, 2007)

This is so cool. My ideal light would be the following:

Mod host = Princeton Tec PT40, which is a 4aa powered polymer PR incan light with a twisty switch. The mod would be something like a triple Cree with long-throw reflectors. The SL 4aa is I think a similar host and would be ok as an alternative, I just am less familiar with it.

Modded light: ideally it should have two levels controlled by the twist bezel like a PD McLux (i.e. turn further for high). Low level should be in the 30 lumen range. High level should be monstrous, like 500 lumens. Runtime on high doesn't matter much but it must have thermal protection (plastic lights don't conduct heat very well). If it can run for 30 seconds before thermal shutdown, I'm happy. After thermal shutdown the light should still be usable on low.

High level must work on generic nimh aa cells but but being able to work on any other type of cell is completely optional. Low level must work on any type of aa cell including zinc-carbon of garbage quality. 

I guess if necessary, though, the low level can be dispensed with altogether. The main purpose of this light is to provide a long-throwing backup for a smaller light for occasional long distance spotting. If low level is available, that could be considered to be the primary light.

Result: a very compact, relative throwmonster that works on commonly available nimh aa's that can share a cell collection and charging system with other lights and so forth. The ability to run on garbage cells in a pinch is a significant plus.

Got any thoughts about this idea?

Edit (1/13): On further thought, the heck with the two level stuff, just make it one level (maximum). It could use a Rebel Tri Star. It would probably best be done as a newly machined bezel just using the Tec40's battery holder.


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## Brozneo (Jan 1, 2008)

Hi Scott,

Sorry to be a pain, but just wondering how my builds are going?

Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## Kraid (Jan 21, 2008)

-


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## Kraid (Jan 25, 2008)

Hmmm... just noticed the last post date. Is this thread still alive?


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## milkyspit (Jan 25, 2008)

Kraid said:


> Hmmm... just noticed the last post date. Is this thread still alive?



Yes, still alive. Just haven't had time to post new pics lately! But there are some good builds completed recently that I'd like to get posted as soon as I've got a bit of breathing room to do so. :sweat:

Actually, here's one... look at the M248.4 'Tiger Moth' with custom-fabricated 1x123 body in these group photos...


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## Kraid (Jan 26, 2008)

-


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## paulr (Jan 26, 2008)

Hey Milky, welcome back, I PM'd you about that Tec40 mod.


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## Kato (Jan 27, 2008)

E-mail and PM re-sent as requested. :wave:


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## milkyspit (Apr 15, 2008)

*[size=+1]Project-M Is Alive And Well[/size]*

Haven't updated this thread in a while, nor have I gotten back to everybody who has inquired in the recent past. Sorry guys! 

Anyway, just a quick note to let folks know Project-M is still very much an active effort... among some recent highlights...

*M365-KL3rev2 'Vulcan.'* 5x Rebel-100 emitters plus ultra high-efficiency driver, delivering 365 lumens continuous for 2h19m off a single AW 18650 protected Li-ion cell (2200mAh) or 1h per 123 primary, with 4x123 the maximum allowable configuration. *System* efficiency (not just the LEDs, but rather the ENTIRE FLASHLIGHT from the battery itself) is 100 lumens per watt, placing this proof-of-concept light 60-70% higher in efficiency than the best compact fluorescent bulbs. :naughty:

(Motivating factor on the above: I like efficiency and hate mercury, the latter being a deadly neurotoxin as well as present in all known fluorescent bulbs! Wanted to come up with something that trounced the mercury death bulbs... ahem, FLUORESCENT bulbs sufficiently that I could remove them from various applications without guilt over wasted electricity as a result. No evangelism intended here, only that I would just as soon have all sources of mercury removed from our household environment, especially now that we've got three children!)

*M600.4-KT4 'Stencil.'* Limited-edition 8x SSCP4 USWOH build in a SureFire KT4 turbo head, designed for high output coupled with good runtimes and compatibility with primary 123 cells. This light can operate with both 3x123 primaries and 2x17500 (or other sizes) lithium-ion rechargeables... on rechargeables it offers a system efficiency of roughly 83 lumens per watt. 3x123 primaries power the light at 600 lumens continuous for 1h... plus the head features an Acorn1.0 driver for variable brightness: max 1h, medium 4h, low 18h, ultralow 140h. The head features 7x McR16ms plus 1x McR20'Sten' reflectors.

And last but not least, this one built for Blitzlicht65...

*X510-KL2.* This one is a Project-M eXtreme build in KL2 head in the classic sense, but taking advantage of the enhanced capabilities of the current crop of emitters. The head generates roughly 510 lumens continuous for 1h16m on 3x123 primary cells. To put this in perspective, the first-ever Project-M build in a SureFire KT4 turbo head was an M420, meaning 420 lumens overall output... Blitzlicht's KL2 head is both smaller and brighter!


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## LiteFan (Apr 15, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> *M365-KL3rev2 'Vulcan.'* 5x Rebel-100 emitters plus ultra high-efficiency driver, delivering 365 lumens continuous for 2h19m off a single AW 18650 protected Li-ion cell (2200mAh) or 1h per 123 primary, with 4x123 the maximum allowable configuration. *System* efficiency (not just the LEDs, but rather the ENTIRE FLASHLIGHT from the battery itself) is 100 lumens per watt, placing this proof-of-concept light 60-70% higher in efficiency than the best compact fluorescent bulbs. :naughty:
> 
> (Motivating factor on the above: I like efficiency and hate mercury, the latter being a deadly neurotoxin as well as present in all known fluorescent bulbs! Wanted to come up with something that trounced the mercury death bulbs... ahem, FLUORESCENT bulbs sufficiently that I could remove them from various applications without guilt over wasted electricity as a result. No evangelism intended here, only that I would just as soon have all sources of mercury removed from our household environment, especially now that we've got three children!)
> 
> *M600.4-KT4 'Stencil.'* Limited-edition 8x SSCP4 USWOH build in a SureFire KT4 turbo head, designed for high output coupled with good runtimes and compatibility with primary 123 cells. This light can operate with both 3x123 primaries and 2x17500 (or other sizes) lithium-ion rechargeables... on rechargeables it offers a system efficiency of roughly 83 lumens per watt. 3x123 primaries power the light at 600 lumens continuous for 1h... plus the head features an Acorn1.0 driver for variable brightness: max 1h, medium 4h, low 18h, ultralow 140h. The head features 7x McR16ms plus 1x McR20'Sten' reflectors.


 
Scott when you have time could you add the eye candy to go with these. I need my flashlight porn:thumbsup:


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## blitzlicht65 (Apr 15, 2008)

*Awesome work!!!!!*:bow::bow::bow:

Thanks, Scott.:kiss:


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## toby_pra (Apr 16, 2008)

Oh its yours Dirk?:twothumbs

Congratulations!


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## marcdilnutt (Apr 25, 2008)

Hi Scott,
I just sent you a pm about doing something with an Arc AA. Are you interested?


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## ttran97 (Apr 25, 2008)

Better add the Transgressor to your list of _awesome_ Project M lights! :twothumbs


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## Brizzler (May 2, 2008)

Well, I got my first Milky-mod: A KL2 head modded to Project-M X485 standard with 3*K2-TFFC: :devil:






It is not only my first Milky-build, but also my first multi-emitter light, my first encounter with the K2-TFFC and the brightest light I have ever seen "live"! Not only does the head itself look great but it performs! My brightest lights up to now where McGizmo's 27LT-S (LED) and Surefire M3 with LF EO-M3 bulb (incan), both not slouches in the performance department as far as I am concerned. While I can't compare the EO-M3 directly, I am convinced the X485 stomps on both of these lights! 

I would post beamshots but my camera doesn't have a full manual mode. The beam is huge (spill bigger than that of an L2) and monstorously bright!! The hotspot is so bright that it is partically dazzling indoors. Not a light for checking the map in the car :naughty:. I was somewhat surprised that during my not-so-extensive testing I was not able to spot a significant difference in the beam colour and afforded colour rendition of the X485 compared with the 27LT-S, despite the different emitter technology, but that is obviously not a problem - I'm very happy with both lights! The K2-TFFC certainly delivers!

Awesome work Milky!! Thanks a lot for making this possible and so promptly! 

:thanks: 
Another convert...


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## milkyspit (May 21, 2008)

Brizzler said:


> Well, I got my first Milky-mod: A KL2 head modded to Project-M X485 standard with 3*K2-TFFC: :devil:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Brizzler, that is one heck of a nice photo! Would you mind if I save a copy for myself and perhaps post it in my eye candy thread? Pretty please? :bow:

On a much more minor note, I am glad you like your light, and sorry for taking so long to say so! Hope it serves you well and I'll always be happy to build whatever else for you, whenever you choose.

Thank you for your kind words!


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## Brizzler (May 22, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> Brizzler, that is one heck of a nice photo! Would you mind if I save a copy for myself and perhaps post it in my eye candy thread? Pretty please? :bow:



I don't think I'd mind, Milky! In fact - I would be honoured to have my photo included in your eyecandy thread!  To that effect I am about to send you an email with the full resolution photograph...


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## paulr (May 23, 2008)

Nice light and photo!!!

Milky, I left a couple messages asking if you were up for doing a high power head (P7 or multi Cree) for a 4aa light (Princeton Tec 40) powered by Eneloops. Any chance of this? Thanks.


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## marcdilnutt (May 23, 2008)

Any thoughts on the Arc AA mod i asked about? I have sent emails and a couple of PMs.


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## milkyspit (Jun 24, 2008)

*[size=+1]X865.4 with Variable Color Enhancement[/size]*

Posted a thread about the X865.4, a 7-Rebel build along the lines of the "Pinky" enhanced color rendering lights I've put together in the past (a.k.a. Pink Panther, Mother Nature, and more)... this time with a twist: the degree of color enhancement is designed to VARY from level to level, not stay the same. Take a look *over here*.



















paulr said:


> Nice light and photo!!!
> 
> Milky, I left a couple messages asking if you were up for doing a high power head (P7 or multi Cree) for a 4aa light (Princeton Tec 40) powered by Eneloops. Any chance of this? Thanks.



Paul, I've been going over your idea in my head for a while and so far my main concern is heat buildup inside that plastic body. Even running the LEDs at lower output they will eventually accumulate enough heat to be a concern, especially if this would be a light you'd count on while camping, or night hiking and the like. That's the main reason I haven't replied on your idea yet... yes it's a dumb reason to withhold a reply, but then I'm not always the sharpest tool in the shed. My bad.  At least now you know what I'm thinking... and if you have some thoughts on how we might dodge the heat issue to move forward, by all means give me a holler, I'd be interested in hearing about it! Thanks for waiting on my dense grey matter to get in gear somewhat with an answer.




marcdilnutt said:


> Any thoughts on the Arc AA mod i asked about? I have sent emails and a couple of PMs.



Marc, the truth is I'm not completely comfortable building into Arc AA... I've done similar, most recently a Cree Q5WG in an Infinity Ultra-G for William Lafferty... the main thing that gives me pause is the relative sparcity of good drivers that fit in this form factor. I haven't abandoned the idea but would like to see a better selection of drivers at our disposal to do the job right. :thinking:


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## marcdilnutt (Jun 24, 2008)

Hi Scott,
Thats fine, but please keep an eye out for a suitable driver as i will be keeping the parts about in case. I was thinking about an ArcMule, no optic and pure flood beam. Have you had a look inside a Zebralight? The driver from that would work perfectly.


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## milkyspit (Jun 24, 2008)

Marc, I have seen the Zebra light but have not poked around inside one... at least not yet! :thinking:


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## ExZeRoEx (Jun 25, 2008)

What's this about? I think I saw something similar in an avatar.



> *[SIZE=+1]Another satisfied Project-M customer! [/SIZE]*


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## milkyspit (Jun 25, 2008)

ExZeRoEx said:


> What's this about? I think I saw something similar in an avatar.




Well... first, the guy in the red shirt is NOT me... it's fellow CPFer EricMack. I'm the guy taking the picture! The attractive young lady is *Pilar Lastra*. She's holding the 'Little Mack,' a light I built for Eric.  :naughty: 

Photo was taken at SHOT 2006 in Orlando, FL.


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## ExZeRoEx (Jun 27, 2008)

What's does the stock Acorn firmware look like? How is the output of the four levels set up, like a rough estimate percentage wise. I looked at the Gotham's UI but it has a tactical mode instead of a mizer mode, is it basically the same thing but swapping out tactical mode with mizer mode?


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## milkyspit (Jul 8, 2008)

ExZeRoEx said:


> What's does the stock Acorn firmware look like? How is the output of the four levels set up, like a rough estimate percentage wise. I looked at the Gotham's UI but it has a tactical mode instead of a mizer mode, is it basically the same thing but swapping out tactical mode with mizer mode?




Gotham runs an earlier version of the Acorn firmware that does not incorporate Miser Mode. However, the Miser Mode does NOT replace tactical capability, it's in ADDITION to that... in fact, the light has exactly the same functionality INCLUDING tactical UI in both normal and miser operation.

Incidentally, all Gothams can be updated with the latest 'Bailey' firmware, which would give the Gotham the Miser Mode, too. :naughty:


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## milkyspit (Jul 8, 2008)

*[size=+1]New Runtime Chart[/size]*

Just updated the Project-M runtime chart to incorporate some of the newer LED options. You might need to refresh your browser window to get the latest chart... it should appear in the top post of this thread and is dated for July 8, 2008, at 11:00am in the top right corner. Here's a copy for convenience...






I've included the Nichia 083 high-CRI emitter that McGizmo has been working with as of late... the specifications for that particular emitter limit max drive current to 350mA, so a couple of the usual Project-M configurations are not advisable. I could build them of course, but they would be strictly at customer risk with no real idea as to how long the emitters might stand up to the higher drive currents. Also, these configurations would likely be flood as the optimal reflector for use with the 083 is unknown at present. :thinking:

Also of note is the inclusion of both Cree R2 and Seoul P4-U2 bins to the chart.

Anyway, IMHO some good stuff there. Enjoy!


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## Brozneo (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks for the updated runtime chart Scott!

Any chance I could get my KT4 build made with the new Seoul U2 LEDs rather than the old ones??

Also wondering what's the ETA for this build??

Cheers!

Nick


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## Brozneo (Jul 22, 2008)

Bump! Hello Milky???


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## nanotech17 (Jul 24, 2008)

just want to add - i swapped the emitter to U2SVOH in my KL6 head with M3 body and pumping it with 2xAW17500P & :wow: what an output with nice warm tint @ 1A.
Now i know why they call it U2xxx 
And of course the light was modded by ehemmm who else


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## milkyspit (Aug 15, 2008)

*[size=+1]New Runtime Chart[/size]*

Just posted a new master runtime chart, correcting an error in one of the output ratings (M1136 was labeled as M1138). Granted, this was a small error, but I'd just as soon have the chart as factually correct as possible.

Here's the updated chart, which should also show in the first post of the thread, though you may have to refresh your browser to see it...








*[size=+1]Other Matters[/size]*

Brozneo, your most recent light shipped earlier this week... and yes, it does utilize the newer U2SWOH emitters.


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## Brozneo (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks Milky! Can't wait to get it!


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## stinkydeelux01 (Aug 22, 2008)

Hey Milky, it's been a few days since I sent you a PM. I realize you're probably busy, so just thought I'd bump this too in case you're following it. I would just send you the parts but unfortunately I don't have any of your info like address/ph number to get in touch with you. Looking forward to getting some work done on my M6 host. Maybe I can ask and hopefully get a response from some of the guys who already have a milky-mod: I'm looking for a mod to my M6 that will add both lumens and runtime, and since I don't have a five-mega battery holder I was planning for it to be off the primaries. Most of the use would be outdoors on the farm/camping/walks. The pinky/mothernature type builds look interesting, but how much distance/throw is being taken away by the multiple LEDs vs the stock incan reflector? Any advice/conversation on this appreciated.

Stinky

Update: After talking it over, it looks like the goal is a multi-mode pinky style light with lots of lumens; perfect. Will be mailing it out as soon as I can and looking forward to the final product.


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## nautilus1950 (Sep 22, 2008)

Hi Milky, I've been trying to PM you but ur mailbox is full  Probably off topic here, but I'm wondering if you have anything good to stick into an E1L outdoorsman (yea, very small light)


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## milkyspit (Sep 24, 2008)

nautilus1950 said:


> Hi Milky, I've been trying to PM you but ur mailbox is full  Probably off topic here, but I'm wondering if you have anything good to stick into an E1L outdoorsman (yea, very small light)




Nautilus1950, seems like every time I clear some PM, it fills again! But I'm still working on that side of things. In the meantime, looks like you already sent me email but for others' benefit, best way to reach me would be...






Please put "CPF" and your username somewhere in the subject line... that really helps me keep track of things, and helps ensure your message won't get pulled into the spam folder by accident! oo:


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## nautilus1950 (Sep 24, 2008)

alrighty  thanks for the response. I'll be waiting for your reply :thumbsup:


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## one417 (Nov 16, 2008)

Gotta have one now.....PM/EM sent.


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## toby_pra (Nov 19, 2008)

Hi Scott! 

How you are?

I wanted to ask, if have perhaps a little surefire mod at this time, that you want to sell?
Perjaps something like a boxter?or such a short body with an bigger head with 3 led's or 
one ssc p7?

But it should be driven with only one cell (123).:twothumbs

Please let me know my friend!
Take care 
Toby


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## milkyspit (Nov 24, 2008)

toby_pra said:


> Hi Scott!
> 
> How you are?
> 
> ...




Toby, I've probably got something here for ya. :thinking:


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## toby_pra (Nov 25, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> Toby, I've probably got something here for ya. :thinking:


 
Just let me know...

Shoot me a pm my friend, or are you just kidding? 
I think there are many people asking you for your nice mods... :candle:


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## electromage (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm sure you're very busy Scott, but I sent you a PM in October and an email in November about an M3 build. I'd like to at least know you got them.


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## milkyspit (Jan 8, 2009)

electromage said:


> I'm sure you're very busy Scott, but I sent you a PM in October and an email in November about an M3 build. I'd like to at least know you got them.



EM, not sure I saw the email but I did receive the PM... replied to it yesterday. If my PM inbox turns out to be full by the time you reply, please send to this email address instead, and put "CPF" plus your username somewhere in the subject line... that ought to help...






Thanks!


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## electromage (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I thought that I had included "CPF" in the email subject, but it may have gotten filtered out anyway.


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## proline (Jan 10, 2009)

Hi Scott...:wave:

proline


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## TranquillityBase (Jan 10, 2009)

Hi Scott...:wave:

Waiting for an email reply from 12/5/08, and again 1/7/09 

Thanks,
Scott


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## lightburns (Jan 11, 2009)

HelloThese really are very lovely flashlights indeed - now I just need lots of lovely money !


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## nakahoshi (Jan 19, 2009)

email sent
-bobby


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## milkyspit (May 8, 2009)

Haven't meant to neglect this thread! Project-M continues to be alive and well. As such, it's important to keep in context that it's a FAMILY of lights, and beyond that really a design philosophy. I incorporate Project-M materials and methodologies into a number of builds, a few of which appear below...


*[size=+1]Project-M In Many Forms![/size]*

At first, Project-M lights appeared in Mag hosts, then in SureFire KL2 and M3 heads. I still build them these ways, although over time they have appeared in a number of other formats as well. Some recent examples...

*X495-M3*

Probably should have been labeled M495-M3... capable of running 495 lumens output continuous for 2h17m with near-flat regulation... works with voltages from (roughly) 3.6 through 10 volts












*Luminator (X700.4-KL3rev1)*

Four levels of brightness with 700 lumens max output and 0.23 lumen minimum output via single Cree MC-E quad-core emitter, housed in a classic SureFire KL3 first-revision finned head, power source 2x rechargeable or 3x123 primaries

















*Gossamer (X727.4-KL4)*

Four levels of brightness with 727 lumens max output via single Cree MC-E quad-core emitter, housed in the easily pocketable SureFire KL4 head, shown in photo on a SureFire E2E body, power source 2x rechargeable or 3x123 primaries (would need an extender or longer body to accommodate 3x123 primaries)... works nicely with E2E body running 2x AW IMR16340 rechargeables







*[size=+1]The Ever-Elusive 'M' Designation[/size]*

Many recent projects have involved, at customer request, pushing the lights fairly hard. As such I've labeled the majority of recent efforts not with the 'M' designation, but instead its close cousin, the 'X' (for eXtreme) designation. The 'X' builds share much in common with their more strictly compliant Project-M counterparts, but typically are not efficient enough to earn true 'M' designation.


*[size=+1]Creemator... Project-M?[/size]*

My Creemator and other, similar builds (Seoulmator, Gossamer, Luna all come to mind) are generally Project-M compliant though I haven't been labeling them as such. Independent testing has shown the Creemator even on max output (running on 2x123 primaries during testing) to have just about perfect ruler-flat regulation, similar in that regard to the original M180-Mag2C Project-M light. One customer actually pressed his Creemator into service as a reference light in rating others, due to the Creemator's output stability... quite an honor!
:bow:






If given a Project-M designation, the Creemator would be an *M303.4*.

The Creemator is described in more detail in, for example, a previous sprint run sales thread *over here*.


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## nautilus1950 (Jul 7, 2009)

Hi Scott,

I sent you an email regarding a build I'm interested in. I know you're busy, so maybe you've missed my mail or something. Just a heads up, and reply me when you are available :twothumbs

Thanks!


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## toby_pra (Jul 8, 2009)

Hello Scott!

Is it possible to mod a Kroma with a stock TIR.Optic? :naughty:

With Cree MC-E or SSC P4?


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## Loomy (Jul 13, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> *Luminator (X700.4-KL3rev1)*
> 
> Four levels of brightness with 700 lumens max output and 0.23 lumen minimum output via single Cree MC-E quad-core emitter, housed in a classic SureFire KL3 first-revision finned head, power source 2x rechargeable or 3x123 primaries



the luminator. bathe this and bring it to me


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