# Big Bad ROP vs Big Bad Mag85: Beamshots



## Icebreak (Jul 26, 2008)

This comes up from time to time. Which is brighter? Is there much difference? I think it has a lot to do with perspective and some to do with how efficient the build formula is. I don't have two of the same Hotwire mods but I do have a few that are running the same lamps. Different formulas render different power.

Here's my two best performing ROP and Mag85 iterations. The ROP is using a MOP and the 85 is using a LOP. The ROP is using 6 series Elite 4500 sub C cells in a Mag 5C host. The Mag85 is using 9 GP 2200 sub C cells in a Mag 6C host.

Distance is 45 yds. The point and shoot is locked on manual focus/exposure and Day Light. It is being operated by a very handsome man with no photography skills.

ROP






Mag85






Same shots but cropped:

ROP





Mag85






For my purposes, the Mag85 has a enough significant increase in power to make it a viable step up from a ROP. It will light things up a couple hundred yard away. Out in nature at night, sometimes I'm not sure if a shriek is a banshee or a Blue Heron. Or a grunt is a Big Foot or a Raccoon. Ever hear a skunk chirping? Yeah you'll want to have all the available power you can muster for those dudes. They'll usually leave you alone. I would just as soon encourage them to continue on a different trek. Might be time for a 100 watter for Icebreak.

Bonus critter eyeshine shot taken on a different night with different camera settings :






Do you like bugs? I suppose ya'll think it's funny that I'd stand out here in the middle of the summer on the River shining lights out over the water just to make a point about a flashlight. Fine. Laugh it up, boys.

Bonus dueling HotWire "spinners" shot:






I'm not really complaining. It's generally peaceful out here. I like that stupid tree on the little island. Looks like it got knocked down when it was young then fought back and grew up just fine. I'd like to learn how to paint it with light and photograph it properly. Let's try one time.

Bonus tree painting shot:





Aaa. Not very good. It looked a lot better in the bug shot. I think I need a little better focus and a little less exposure. Sure is a big snake out there. I wonder what kind it is.


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## tebore (Jul 26, 2008)

From the looks of it the Mag85 is putting out 2x the amount of light(not visually 2x as bright, but 2x the lumens). 

The Mag85 is a solid classic mod.


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## Raoul_Duke (Jul 26, 2008)

Great Shots

So please tell us how efficient the build formula is for both.

I'm assuming th Rop runs for an hour, and the 85 around 35 - 40 mins.

Any other things you have done to them. What kinda reflectors are in each...Kiu socket for the 85 etc?


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## vestureofblood (Jul 26, 2008)

Those pictures realy arent that bad. I realize both lights are a lot more impressive in real life, but still nice work. I would also like to hear what your run times are? I was guessing the M*g85 to be more like an hour with 4500mah cells.


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## scottaw (Jul 26, 2008)

I've seen tons of hotwire beamshots, thank you to everyone who takes the time to take them, but nothing really ever does justice. If you're deciding on building a hotwire, just do it and see what a whole pile of lumens in your hand feels like.


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## Patriot (Jul 26, 2008)

I never knew there was any question as to which was brighter but yeah, I always love beamshots!! It looks like the moths & other bugs liked the 85 too. 


I agree with Tebore......roughly twice the output.


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## Meltdown (Jul 26, 2008)

Great pic's thanks!

dumb question: why not use the same battery in both lights?


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## Icebreak (Jul 26, 2008)

tabore -

That's how I see it too.

Raoul_Duke -

Thanks. Nothing special was done to them so maybe efficient isn't the correct word. It's just that those batteries deliver overdrive amps and slightly over 1.20V per cell deep into the run, measured under load at the lamp of course. No resistance fixes. I think for the Mag85 that might not be a good idea. You nailed the runtime.

vestetureofblood -

Thank you. I agree that real life is where HotWires really impress. When I swung the 85 around to the left down the levee it was like I had a motorcycle in my hand. The Mag85 gets pretty tuckered out at 40 minutes. The GP 2200s are shorter than a sub C. I can't remember for sure but they might be called 4/5 sub C. The ROP goes a few minutes longer than an hour. For that hour it's flat output to the eyes.

scottaw -

Absolutely. Nothing like being out there with "a pile of lumens" in your hand.

Patriot36 -

The question came up last week. I guess it used to come up more often when ROPs first started getting popular. I think if a ROP running Elites in a FiveMega holder was compared to a Mag85 running non-high drain cells in a less robust holder they might be fairly close. And sure, you know every flying insect within fifty feet of the Mag85 came right for it. The bigger ones in the beam are some kind of delicate bug. Green with translucent wings. They landed on the fluorescent lantern and many died. The ants tore them up and took the parts home. Not that many mosquitoes. It was the biting gnats that bugged me. You know, the little hard-shelled bastids. No big. Better getting out in the fresh air than watching the tube.


Here's a little better paint job from a few nights ago using both a ROP and an 85. It's kind of fun to do. I'm looking forward to increasing my skill level. As a new user I think these smart cameras are a challenge to outsmart.


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## DM51 (Jul 26, 2008)

I love that setting - very atmospheric. Beautiful shots!

Those bugs make patterns like strands of razor wire, lol.


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## Icebreak (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks, DM51. It's nicer out there in the spring and fall. While I was shooting a two foot long channel cat started herding little shad right up to the shore. I'd need a much stronger light (or a flash...gack) to catch that action. If I'd dropped any kind of bait in front of him he would have disregarded it, I think, because he was "in the zone". Saw some drum cruising the shoreline, no bass, probably chilling in cooler water. Not one snake though. That's odd. Observing wildlife at night can be interesting. 

Razor wire! I knew I'd seen that pattern before but I couldn't think of what it was. Thank you. That's exactly right. Heh heh.


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## SafetyBob (Jul 26, 2008)

Icebreak, thanks for the pictures. I have been wondering if going to sub C's would be worth it and with your pictures and proof in hand, it sure looks like it. I need to figure out what D size [email protected] would hold, what, 9 sub C's.....if any. Otherwise, I think we have a project on our hands.....

Bob E.


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## Icebreak (Jul 27, 2008)

Hello, Bob.

CheapBatteryPacks shows their GP 2200 4/5 sub C has been replaced by Elite 2200mAh cells at 33.53mm in length. A C cell is about 50mm and a D cell is about 60mm. So a Mag 5D is made to handle about 300mm. 33.53 X 9 = 301.77 so that should work just fine. A little tight just like my 6C.

Remember this is only good for 35 - 40 minutes. I think the majority of folks think a 5D is pretty big for that amount of runtime. Not me. I like most flashlight form factors including the big guns. I used the Google search function and saw a few 6C Mags for sale at a premium on CPMP. One guy posted a low of $40.00 in a WTB thread he had for sale via PM. Of course with these batteries in it the 5D would be much, much lighter than a 5D running 5 D alkaline cells. Also, I can hear the 2200s laughing when I load them into the Mag85. 3.31 Amps? They are rated for 30 Amps.


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## Icebreak (Jul 27, 2008)

Meltdown -

Sorry I missed your post. I wasn't clear at first about the size of the cells. The Elite sub Cs are 43.94 mm in length so they'd be way too long for 9 of them to fit in the Mag85 where 9 of the 4/5 sub C 2200s fit nicely, just a little tight.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2008)

Icebreak, thanks for the pictures. They are always enjoyable to see various applications. Nice Job! :thumbsup:


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## Beer (Jul 27, 2008)

Thanks for the shots!!!

That actually gives me a really good idea what to exspect since your ROP set up is very similar to mine.

Looks like the ROP got owned. :green:

Time for another mag build I think. :devil:


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## eebowler (Jul 27, 2008)

You mean bugs caused those lines? COOL! I thought it was barbed wire


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## Illum (Jul 27, 2008)

my ROP and Mag85 looks about the same....not really a significantly better output on the 85's side. 

both use eneloops
both use Borofloat lens
both use FM MOP cammed reflectors

I can't seem to focus my 1185 as well as the ROP, so its more of a flood for me but its perfectly usable so :twothumbs:


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## Icebreak (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks, LuxLuthor.

Good deal, Beer. I saw your thread and wanted show that a good Mag85 should outperform a good ROP.

Illum_the_nation -

Of course the axial focus makes a big difference. What some folks overlook is the lateral focus, both horizontal and longitudinal. And much of this comparison stuff has to do with personal perception. Whilst hunting down a rogue white wall I took these beamshots. By my perspective the Mag85 is noticeably brighter than the ROP; enough so that it is worth the effort to step up to this legendary HotWire.

Big Bad ROP






Big Bad Mag85


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## Beer (Jul 29, 2008)

Don't suppose 9 Sub C's would fit in a 6D would they?

I figure if I build a Mag85 I wan't a tool that can run for at least an hour.

Thats mainly the reason why I prefer my big ole' 4D ROP to my 2C (that, and it's slightly brighter)


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## Icebreak (Jul 29, 2008)

Mmmm. I think it would be 30mm shy of holding them. Maybe a 5761 using full C sized NiMh and incorporating an NTC or AW regulator. I've never built one but many others have. Surley there must by a Mag 6D formula that would beat the 85 on brightness and runtime. I'll keep my ears on for something.


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## Beer (Jul 29, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> Mmmm. I think it would be 30mm shy of holding them. Maybe a 5761 using full C sized NiMh and incorporating an NTC or AW regulator. I've never built one but many others have. Surley there must by a Mag 6D formula that would beat the 85 on brightness and runtime. I'll keep my ears on for something.


 

Could we squeeze the extra 30mm by droping the spring into the tailcap?


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## Icebreak (Jul 29, 2008)

I stacked up two FiveMega holders then laid out 9 sub C cells. It looks like it would work just barely. Maybe de-anodize the inside of the end cap with Liquid Plummer then reshape the spring to one and one half turns and sink it into the TC. I can't say for sure but it looks like it might just do it.


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## Bimmerboy (Jul 29, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> Do you like bugs? I suppose ya'll think it's funny that I'd stand out here in the middle of the summer on the River shining lights out over the water just to make a point about a flashlight. Fine. Laugh it up, boys.



:laughing::lolsign: 

Yeah, who'd actually be crazy enough to do such a thing?... says the person who stood shirtless in his back yard just the other night amongst the mosquitoes, shining lights around.

This is one of my favorite threads in recent weeks. Great beamshots, and comparison between two popular, classic builds.

Can't fool us, man. You know you had fun. 

BTW, that is one hell of a big snake. While I'm bravin' the skeeters, you're out there with pythons! :bow:


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