# 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650B



## Shadowww (Jun 3, 2012)

cnqualitygoods 1 piece of Panasonic NCR 18650 3400mAh Li-on unprotected battery

3400mAh / 4.35V.
Interesting.


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## gopajti (Jun 3, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

wohoo thanks! Very interesting


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## Changchung (Jun 3, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Wow... Great news... Thanks


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## space-cowboy (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



Shadowww said:


> cnqualitygoods 1 piece of Panasonic NCR 18650 3400mAh Li-on unprotected battery
> 
> 3400mAh / 4.35V.
> Interesting.




3400mAh - *yes*

4.35V - *no*

*NCR18650B*


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

space-cowboy: why not?


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## space-cowboy (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



bshanahan14rulz said:


> space-cowboy: why not?



Because NCR18650B is 4.2V batt.

and must say performs really good.


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## Shadowww (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Hm, that's even better than expected, 3400mAh without need for a special charger :O


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## space-cowboy (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Yep,

It is same as NCR18650A, but they "played" with enhanced nickel.

I am not a chemist, 

but would like to work for free with Panasonic R&D


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## Shadowww (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Are there datasheets for it (the NCR18650B) available somewhere, by the way?


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## space-cowboy (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Not, for public as I know. Only internal documents.

Soon


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## tobrien (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

so how much of a runtime difference will we typically see between a 3400 mAh and a 3100 mAh cell (all things being equal?)?


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

mmm, I like that much better! I liked how the A version had increased capacity at 4.2V charge, but I disliked how many cycles the extra capacity apparently lasted for, but then again, I'm only going off of user reports. At the time, the "NNP" they were boasting was still pretty new, I bet they are working on improving robustness in that layer to improve cycle count. I will probably work in a couple of new technology cells for myself for Christmas 

and never offer to work for free. At least request ramen ;-)


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## HKJ (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



tobrien said:


> so how much of a runtime difference will we typically see between a 3400 mAh and a 3100 mAh cell (all things being equal?)?





Probably about a 10% increase.


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## loutsopo (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



Shadowww said:


> Hm, that's even better than expected, 3400mAh without need for a special charger :O



I think that i will use some defective chargers that i have where stop at 4.4V with these batteries.


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## Owen (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



HKJ said:


> Probably about a 10% increase.


Why would you think that?


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## 45/70 (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



HKJ said:


> Probably about a 10% increase.



Nah. If the capacities are correct, I would think the 3400mAh cell would only have about a 9.7% advantage over the 3100mAh cell, maybe a bit less.

Seriously, I think a lot of confusion stems around the fact that some folks do not understand that the mAh capacity of a cell is essentially how much stored energy potential a cell has at a specific discharge rate, and is not necessarily relevant to how much power a cell can deliver. For example, a 1500-1600mAh IMR cell has about 2-3 times the power (Watt) potential of a 3100mAh LiNiCo cell. It just doesn't store as much energy.

The same is true when comparing high discharge rate NiMh cells with conventional NiMh cells. High discharge rate cells usually have a lower mAh capacity, but can deliver more power, however they don't store as much total energy. It depends on the particular application as to whether a light will run brighter, or longer, and which type cell is essentially "better" for that particular application.

Dave


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## kaabob (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I got an email from Orbtronic -- they said they're going to have this in stock soon!
Yay for domestic shipping!


> Hi,
> 
> New Panasonic 3400mAh should be here soon.
> 
> ...


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## HKJ (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

When you start looking at what a battery can do, you also need to look at what the light need, with many single cell lights the battery voltage is very important for brightness. This is related to power delivery, but is not the same.


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## tobrien (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



kaabob said:


> I got an email from Orbtronic -- they said they're going to have this in stock soon!
> Yay for domestic shipping!



hopefully they price it competitively like their 3100 mAh cells used to be 

edit: disregard this, it looks like their prices are back to normal. they had been going up for a bit though


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## 45/70 (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Very true, HKJ. This is the reason that for me and my applications, I favor the Samsung 30A and LG 4.35 Volt cells over the Panasonic 4.20 Volt cells. I must say I was a bit disappointed that these new "B" cells are actually 4.20 Volts. I really need the extra voltage available under load. Also, the capacity below 3.00 Volts (under load), of any of these cells, doesn't do me any good.

Dave


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## Mooreshire (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Very exciting news about the 3400mAh technology announcement.

As for Orbtronic, the key is to wait and watch. Even the Amazon price for a pair of 2900mAh cells direct from them has fluctuated nearly 100% over the last two weeks (I just scored four cells for $24, suddenly that is less than the price for only two - same amazon listing, ten days apart)!


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## tobrien (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



45/70 said:


> Very true, HKJ. This is the reason that for me and my applications, I favor the Samsung 30A and LG 4.35 Volt cells over the Panasonic 4.20 Volt cells. I must say I was a bit disappointed that these new "B" cells are actually 4.20 Volts. I really need the extra voltage available under load. Also, the capacity below 3.00 Volts (under load), of any of these cells, doesn't do me any good.
> 
> Dave


wait, so having a higher voltage rated battery, like a 4.35v ones, is better and perhaps yields more voltage available to the emitter when under load and at a lower capacity left in the cell? am I correct? does it matter if you only charged a 4.35v cell to 4.2 volts on a standard li-ion charger?



Mooreshire said:


> Very exciting news about the 3400mAh technology announcement.
> 
> As for Orbtronic, the key is to wait and watch. Even the Amazon price for a pair of 2900mAh cells direct from them has fluctuated nearly 100% over the last two weeks (I just scored four cells for $24, suddenly that is less than the price for only two - same amazon listing, ten days apart)!


that's a good point


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## HKJ (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



tobrien said:


> wait, so having a higher voltage rated battery, like a 4.35v ones, is better and perhaps yields more voltage available to the emitter when under load and at a lower capacity left in the cell? am I correct? does it matter if you only charged a 4.35v cell to 4.2 volts on a standard li-ion charger?



Using my battery comparator you can easily find the answer to these questions.

Here is a comparison between 4.35 and 4.2 volt charge voltage, as you can see the 4.2 volt charge has lower voltage and less capacity.


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## tobrien (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



HKJ said:


> Using my battery comparator you can easily find the answer to these questions.
> 
> Here is a comparison between 4.35 and 4.2 volt charge voltage, as you can see the 4.2 volt charge has lower voltage and less capacity.



thanks buddy! 

so since the 4.35 volt batteries would be used without a protection circuit and so on, should i stop using them in a light _sooner_ (i.e.: at a higher resting voltage) than a 4.20 volt battery would normally stop at?


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## HKJ (Jun 4, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



tobrien said:


> thanks buddy!
> 
> so since the 4.35 volt batteries would be used without a protection circuit and so on, should i stop using them in a light _sooner_ (i.e.: at a higher resting voltage) than a 4.20 volt battery would normally stop at?



This depends on the battery, you can get batteries with 4.2 volt charging that can be discharger to 2.5, 2.8 and 3 volt. I do not have the data sheet for the LG cell, but I would say stop at 3 volt. This stop is when drawing current, I cannot tell what the resting voltage is.


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## 45/70 (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



tobrien said:


> wait, so having a higher voltage rated battery, like a 4.35v ones, is better and perhaps yields more voltage available to the emitter when under load and at a lower capacity left in the cell? am I correct? does it matter if you only charged a 4.35v cell to 4.2 volts on a standard li-ion charger?



Hi tobrien. I think HKJ pretty much covered your questions. It's not so much the available voltage to the emitter, this is controlled by the driver limiting the current. It is the available voltage to the driver itself that is the problem.

For example, my primary interest regarding voltage held under load, relates to download's 8th run Pocket Rocket. This light draws close to 3A on high. It is also one of, I believe, only two lights made, with a driver that has a low voltage warning that kicks in at ~3 Volts.

To make matters worse, the light body is made from titanium, which is a poor electrical conductor. I've done a tailspring mod, ala [email protected], to reduce the resistance in the light's electrical circuit, but still, keeping the voltage as high as possible is important to enable the light to run at the high level, as long as possible. As it is, an IMR 1600mAh cell will run the light almost as long as a 4.35 Volt Samsung 30A cell.

The lower levels are not really affected. In fact, the 30A cell will run the light at medium, or low, for a long time, after the warning kicks in on high, whereas the IMR cell is pretty much "done" at this point. The difference is that the IMR cell holds higher voltage under load, compared to the Samsung 30A, but runs out of steam much sooner, as it is only about half the capacity.

Dave


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## Shadowww (Jun 6, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



45/70 said:


> The difference is that the IMR cell holds higher voltage under load, compared to the Samsung 30A, but runs out of steam much sooner, as it is only about half the capacity.


Hey Dave, you should really check out LG 4.35V cells if Samsung ones don't give you any advantage over IMR's.. because they (LG's) will (at 3A current you quoted)


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## 45/70 (Jun 6, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



Shadowww said:


> Hey Dave, you should really check out LG 4.35V cells......



Yeah, I too have been studying HKJ's charts, and other's for some time now. The LG 4.35 Volt cells do look to be an excellent choice, better than the Samsungs. Thanks for the tip though!:thumbsup:

One thing I've noticed, in my own testing, AW's IMR 1600mAh cells fare a bit better at 3A, than in his results. Still there's no way around it, they're still a low capacity solution, even though they work very well. The IMR's OC voltage at the voltage warning point is 3.60-3.65 Volts, whereas the Samsung 30A cells read ~3.80 Volts OC. So, there's no doubt that the IMR cells are quite capable of supplying 3A until the cell is pretty much discharged.

Well, going OT here I guess, my apologies.

Dave


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## TEEJ (Jun 6, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I typically want to know how low the cell discharges to before its "too low", and many (Most?) of the higher mAh rated cells got the higher rating by simply being ABLE TO function down to a lower discharge limit.

This is because most of my LIGHTS don't use the cells below ~ 2.9 - 3 v or so...so, they drain them from ~ 4.2v or so down to ~ 3 v, and the light's protection kicks in, and disables high, or whatever...as the cells gets down to the programmed limits of the light.

For the ~ 3v limit lights:

A cell that can only go down to ~ 3 v from 4.2 v, but is rated at 3100 mAh, would be better as far as run time, than a light that was also rated at 3100 mAh, but was rated as being able to drain down to say 2 v, etc.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 6, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I think at this point, datasheets are still for ndc signers eyes only :-/


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## Colonel Sanders (Jun 11, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I have some of these cells on order and will be posting some test data soon after arrival.

I still don't know for sure if these cells are intended to be charged to 4.35 or 4.2v. Anyone know *for sure*? Thanks.


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## Colonel Sanders (Jun 11, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

According to Keeppower's website, it is 4.20v.


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## Shadowww (Jun 11, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Considering it's just a updated NCR18650-series, I'd also say it must be 4.2V, if it'd be 4.35V it wouldn't be NCR, it'd get assigned some other series-name.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 14, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

officially 4.2V. may gain up to 100mAh from 4.35V charging, in some of the more extreme examples, from what I hear.


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## jirik_cz (Jun 14, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I can confirm they are 4.2V. Just did a first discharge and got a claimed capacity from a cell charged to 4.2V...


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## Helmut.G (Jun 14, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



jirik_cz said:


> I can confirm they are 4.2V. Just did a first discharge and got a claimed capacity from a cell charged to 4.2V...


Awesome, thanks!

At what voltage did you end the discharge?


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## tobrien (Jun 14, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

what do the letters at the end (B) for example, signify?


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## Colonel Sanders (Jun 14, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I don't know but the A model was 3100 and the one with no letter at the end was 2900.


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## jirik_cz (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

So, here are some of my graphs and I have to say that these cells are very impressive! Tests are done with CBA II.


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## Colonel Sanders (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

*"and I have to say that these cells are very impressive!"*

Wow! I'd have to agree! Very nice. :thumbsup: Thanks for the graphs. I really like that you included the mWh data as that's really what we should be looking at instead of mAh.


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## czAtlantis (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

where do you buy them? cnqualitygoods says "Sorry, Out-of-stock and stop sales. Would you want to book in now and reserve the product?"
Thanks


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## space-cowboy (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Yes, Panasonic NCR18650B is even better at higher current. 

Excellent handling voltage sags.




FYI


3.192mAh @ 5A, 

3218mAh @ 3A


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## windstrings (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

looks like they are already out of stock.


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## tobrien (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

orbtronic has them in stock but at $19.99/unit


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## RI Chevy (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Thank you for the graphs. :thumbsup:


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## ChrisGarrett (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



tobrien said:


> orbtronic has them in stock but at $19.99/unit



Yeah, that's a tough one--get two 3100 unprotecteds for $17.98 shipped, or one 3400 for $19.99 shipped?

I'm going with the former, I think.

Chris


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## windstrings (Jun 15, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



ChrisGarrett said:


> Yeah, that's a tough one--get two 3100 unprotecteds for $17.98 shipped, or one 3400 for $19.99 shipped?
> 
> I'm going with the former, I think.
> 
> Chris


What do you guys think about this Site? 
Price is crazy cheap? 

.... Nevermind.. Shipping is like 40.00 bucks! 

Link removed - Norm


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## czAtlantis (Jun 16, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

This shop has very good price but shipping to my address is 20USD via standard airmail :-/.


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## windstrings (Jun 16, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



czAtlantis said:


> This shop has very good price but shipping to my address is 20USD via standard airmail :-/.



Even 20.00 bucks is only 5.00 more a piece if your ordering 4 batteries.... If I don't mind the slow boat from China.....

think I'll look a tad more first....


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## czAtlantis (Jun 16, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

For larger quantities it is not a big deal but I just want one piece for test. So I am looking for some shop with "free shipping" where i can get it for ~15USD shipped max.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jun 20, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Hope your Inbox is clear, as you're about to get flooded!


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## Phil Ament (Jun 20, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Here you go fellas (for females too)! Here are a couple of links I have provided just for you, with the first one being to the Panasonic Industrial's official web page for their new 3400mAH "NCR18650B" where it includes a wealth of information and also links to various specification and data sheets. The second link is to a page that explains the chemical makeup of the new Panasonic NCR18650B batteries and what they have actually done to increase their capacity from 3100mAh up to 3400mAh. The page that I have linked to is actually a Google cached version of it, as by doing it this way for you it should hopefully highlight any occurrences of the wording "NCR18650B" on the page so that you can cut right to the chase and therefore save yourself both some time and some effort. I really hope that I am allowed to do this, and I also really hope that you all like it and that you find the information to be of some assistance!


Link to Panasonic Industrial's web page for their new NCR18650B

Link to information about the Panasonic NCR18650B chemical makeup and capacity increase explanations


Sincerely Yours
Phil Ament :wave:


P.S. I really hope that these all work just as I had planned, especially the link to the Google cached version however I am pretty confident that they will!


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## Shadowww (Jun 20, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

>In the consumer sector, Panasonic’s NCR18650 2.9Ah and 3.1Ah models have used an HRL on the anode and hybrid-type separator with an alumina layer, but the 3.4Ah *NCR18650B will not have an HRL on the anode.*

Does this essentially means NCR18650B is not as safe as NCR18650(A)? :/


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## Helmut.G (Jun 20, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



Shadowww said:


> >In the consumer sector, Panasonic’s NCR18650 2.9Ah and 3.1Ah models have used an HRL on the anode and hybrid-type separator with an alumina layer, but the 3.4Ah *NCR18650B will not have an HRL on the anode.*
> 
> Does this essentially means NCR18650B is not as safe as NCR18650(A)? :/


Would you mind explaining what HRL means?


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## Phil Ament (Jun 20, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



Helmut.G said:


> Would you mind explaining what HRL means?



HRL stands for Heat Resistance Layer


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## Phil Ament (Jun 20, 2012)

Helmut.G said:


> Would you mind explaining what HRL means?




Panasonic HRL Technology see here


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## Helmut.G (Jun 20, 2012)

Phil Ament said:


> HRL stands for Heat Resistant Layer





Phil Ament said:


> Panasonic HRL Technology see here


Thanks


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## Phil Ament (Jun 20, 2012)

Helmut.G said:


> Thanks



No troubles, anytime!


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## tobrien (Jun 20, 2012)

Good work Phil


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jun 20, 2012)

Excellent sleuthing!


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## jasonck08 (Jun 21, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



Shadowww said:


> >In the consumer sector, Panasonic’s NCR18650 2.9Ah and 3.1Ah models have used an HRL on the anode and hybrid-type separator with an alumina layer, but the 3.4Ah *NCR18650B will not have an HRL on the anode.*
> 
> Does this essentially means NCR18650B is not as safe as NCR18650(A)? :/



Well, these bare 18650 cells were NEVER designed to be a consumer product, and were always designed to use with a protection circuit in place.

I'm assuming that the HRL is something in addition to the PTC. If the cell lacks a PTC then, yes it would most definitely be less safe for using the cell as a bare cell. A PTC protects the cell in the event of a overdischarge, short circuit or overheating situation, but then Panasonic claims the HRL does the same thing, so this leaves me a bit confused...

This wouldn't be the first time Panasonic released a cell without a PTC. The CGR18650CH 10A cell doesn't have one either, and it looks like another CGR-18650K cell lacks a PTC as well.


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## LEDite (Jun 21, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Jason;

The 3400mah Panasonic cell has a PTC for protection, in addition to a safety layer.

I measured the Internal Resistance tonight @ a very low 55 milliOhms.

Higher currents in my XML lights, and lasers.

LEDite


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## jasonck08 (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



LEDite said:


> Jason;
> 
> The 3400mah Panasonic cell has a PTC for protection, in addition to a safety layer.
> 
> ...



What did you use to measure the resistance? 55 mili Ohms is not exactly "very low." IIRC the NCR18650A had about a 45 mili Ohms AC resistance.

Secondly, what do you mean by it has a "safety layer?" Because according to a previous post it lacks the HRL. I'm mostly familiar with the PTC and CID.


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## jirik_cz (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



jasonck08 said:


> What did you use to measure the resistance? 55 mili Ohms is not exactly "very low." IIRC the NCR18650A had about a 45 mili Ohms AC resistance.



It is a good result for DC resistance. These are some of my measurements:

Sony US18650V1 - 35 mOhms
AW IMR 18650 - 44 mOhms
Panasonic 3400 NCR18650B - 56mOhms
Panasonic 2900 NCR18650 - 85mOhms
Solarforce 18650 2400 (unprot.) - 92mOhms
Samsung 18650 2800 - 95mOhms

About the HRL/PTC, I think it must have at least PTC. It behaves similar to Panasonic 2900 under 10A discharge. It heats up to ~70°C and then the voltage sharply drops down. So some kind of passive over-current/over heating/short circuit protection is present.


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## space-cowboy (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



jirik_cz said:


> It is a good result for DC resistance. These are some of my measurements:
> 
> Sony US18650V1 - 35 mOhms
> AW IMR 18650 - 44 mOhms
> ...




Do not discharge NCR18650B at 10A. It is excellent at higher current (it will beat many IMRs at up to 4.5A) , but 10A is definitively not recommended. Internal resistance should be less than 50 Ω

Panasonic-Sanyo are enhancing anode chemical structure, (4000mAh will be Si) so probably HRL will go away. I guess.

IF you have CID, and PTC properly working HRL will not do much except to be there as an additional layer of safety - preventing contamination by "dirty" particles trying to penetrate insulation layer between anode, and cathode (if PTC is not triggered by high temp.).


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

The HRL is one of the layers that makes up the separator between the two foils that make up the electrodes. The PTC can be thought of as a piece of the container, not really a part of the cell. While the NCR18650B lacks the panasonic HRL (which is described as a metal oxide layer on the separator), it still has an alumina layer, which I would guess may serve a similar purpose since alumina is a metal oxide. Either way, I think it is there to prevent "weak spots" in the separator from becoming shorts in a high drain or external short situation, while the PTC is there to create more resistance between the positive terminal and the positive electrode inside the cell if the temperature gets too high.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 3, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Orbtronic now have the protected version of the 3400 cell available. I was going to order a bunch until I saw the price. No cheap shipping option to the UK either.


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## jasonck08 (Jul 3, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



monkeyboy said:


> No cheap shipping option to the UK either.



Not sure why they are offering USPS Shipping options, as it is illegal to ship ANY Li-ion cells Internationally through USPS as of 5/15/2012.


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## Changchung (Jul 3, 2012)

jasonck08 said:


> Not sure why they are offering USPS Shipping options, as it is illegal to ship ANY Li-ion cells Internationally through USPS as of 5/15/2012.



Are norms, but their are not so rigid as you may think...

Check here;

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/10391


SFMI4UT


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## moozooh (Jul 5, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



monkeyboy said:


> No cheap shipping option to the UK either.



...And no shipping option to Russia _whatsoever_, let alone cheap one. :\ Any idea how/where else to get these protected versions?


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## monkeyboy (Jul 5, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Hmm.. No international shipping anymore


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## pabcor (Jul 5, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

My experience with Panasonic NCR18650B, good power but not the best and the best autonomy 

http://lucespotentesparatubici.blogspot.com.es/2011/09/prueba-de-varias-marcas-de-pilas-18650.html


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 5, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

"*but not the best and the best autonomy*"

Could you elaborate on this a bit? 

I'm not sure a lux test on a direct drive light is the best determinate of the quality or performance of a cell. I have a small direct drive XP-E light, for example, that is overpowered by low internal resistance IMR cells and performs better with cheap quality cells. More current to an emitter doesn't always translate into more lumens.


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## pabcor (Jul 6, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

It has the best battery life I tried (2h 36min at 2A aprox.), but there are others like Callie's for example, giving more power. Anyway is a good stack but somewhat expensive.


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## jasonck08 (Jul 6, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



pabcor said:


> It has the best battery life I tried (2h 36min at 2A aprox.), but there are others like Callie's for example, giving more power. Anyway is a good stack but somewhat expensive.



Interesting, because the results here show the NCR18650B appears to have lower IR and a higher nominal voltage.




jirik_cz said:


>


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## pabcor (Jul 6, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



jasonck08 said:


> Interesting, because the results here show the NCR18650B appears to have lower IR and a higher nominal voltage.



Yes with Panasonic 2900 but not with Panasonic 3100..


----------



## jirik_cz (Jul 6, 2012)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



space-cowboy said:


> Do not discharge NCR18650B at 10A. It is excellent at higher current (it will beat many IMRs at up to 4.5A) , but 10A is definitively not recommended. Internal resistance should be less than 50 Ω



Of course, I do not recommend to discharge them with more than 2C current. I did the 10A test just for the sake of science 



pabcor said:


> Yes with Panasonic 2900 but not with Panasonic 3100..



No, the internal resistance of Panasonic 2900 and 3100 is quite similar. Panasonic 3400 have lower internal resistance than both of them. Any kind of test in direct drive light is not very reliable, because there are many variables that could affect the results.


----------



## Changchung (Jul 6, 2012)

Someone find where to buy except obtronics?


----------



## moozooh (Jul 6, 2012)

Been looking for them for the past couple days, but no dice—not even on Ebay. I hope AW, Redilast or EagleTac will be able to get a hold of them in the next couple weeks, cause I sure don't enjoy this kind of monopoly very much, not when I can't even get them shipped to my country. :\


----------



## bshanahan14rulz (Jul 6, 2012)

LEDite has some bare cells.


----------



## Changchung (Jul 6, 2012)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> LEDite has some bare cells.



I cant find any site under that name...


SFMI4UT


----------



## moozooh (Jul 7, 2012)

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?1204-LEDite
Ironically, there's a visitor message on his profile from none other than yourself from two weeks ago, asking the exact question.


----------



## Changchung (Jul 8, 2012)

moozooh said:


> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?1204-LEDite
> Ironically, there's a visitor message on his profile from none other than yourself from two weeks ago, asking the exact question.



Ok... What can I say??? I forget that... I also forget to take my pill memory...


SFMI4UT


----------



## bshanahan14rulz (Jul 10, 2012)

Somebody here PM'd me with a link to a protected version that you can buy in single quantities from an e-cig/vape hobby website. Can't really find any reviews for the "bestvaping" store, but they used clear wrap so that you can see the Panasonic label under it, so that's a plus.


----------



## Phil Ament (Jul 10, 2012)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> Somebody here PM'd me with a link to a protected version that you can buy in single quantities from an e-cig/vape hobby website. Can't really find any reviews for the "bestvaping" store, but they used clear wrap so that you can see the Panasonic label under it, so that's a plus.



bshanahan14rulz

You are more than welcome to mention my name if you want, however please don't tell everyone on this thread that it was actually me!!!


----------



## BVH (Jul 10, 2012)

The man just wants to retain his anonymity


----------



## Phil Ament (Jul 10, 2012)

BVH said:


> The man just wants to retain his anonymity



Oh no! Do you mean to say that you can actually read my previous post. How is this possible, because I was certain that I had myself set to invisible just prior to posting it!


----------



## BVH (Jul 10, 2012)

Nope, I don't see a thing!


----------



## Phil Ament (Jul 10, 2012)

BVH said:


> Nope, I don't see a thing!



Phew, that's OK then. I was more than just a little concerned when I had originally thought that you could read it. As long as it's invisible I am absolutely fine with that. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## RedForest UK (Jul 10, 2012)

Wow, some great prices on that website! The new 3400s at only $6.61 and with PCM at $7.42 seems very low, but plausible as shipping isn't included. They do ship China/HK post, has anyone had a shipping quote from them yet?


----------



## pabcor (Jul 12, 2012)

I dont understand why my previous post disappeared, well, on the website of orbitronic, 3400 protected batteries are available including price

PS: ok, I see that Spain does not stop sending them, I sent mail.

PS2: They told me that it is not possible international shipping temporarily :mecry:


----------



## ma_sha1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Phil Ament said:


> Phew, that's OK then. I was more than just a little concerned when I had originally thought that you could read it. As long as it's invisible I am absolutely fine with that. Thanks for the heads up!



I couldn't see what you wrote initially, so I sprayed some vinegar on my screen, all of a sudden, it showed up! OMFG, you better delete the post before the mods get out their spray bottle!


----------



## mikesantor (Jul 12, 2012)

These are $27 each on orb...

I would really like to try some but not at that price.


----------



## ElectronGuru (Jul 12, 2012)

mikesantor said:


> These are $27 each on orb...
> 
> I would really like to try some but not at that price.



These cells were 'liberated' from a Lenovo battery pack vendor and will be the only supply until production ramps up. Prices will normalize later this year.


----------



## Shadowww (Jul 12, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> These cells were 'liberated' from a Lenovo battery pack vendor and will be the only supply until production ramps up. Prices will normalize later this year.



But at least that means they're grade A cells, right?


----------



## RedForest UK (Jul 12, 2012)

It appears my second post here was lost as well, probably just due to the site going down again. 

Basically there is good news and bad news:

Good = the website selling them at such a great price 'bestvaping.net' quoted me good shipping prices too: under $10 for 4x 18650 cells. 

Bad = They also told me they have now sold out of the 3400mah Panasonics completely.


----------



## RedForest UK (Jul 12, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> These cells were 'liberated' from a Lenovo battery pack vendor and will be the only supply until production ramps up. Prices will normalize later this year.





Any word on a source for these battery packs?


----------



## jasonck08 (Jul 12, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> These cells were 'liberated' from a Lenovo battery pack vendor and will be the only supply until production ramps up. Prices will normalize later this year.



Not exactly correct information. There are some bare cells floating around in the market, but most are sample quantities of just a few dozen cells. Even most of the suppliers advertising the 3400's don't even have them in stock. I have a couple sample 3400's, and they came at the normal Panasonic ship voltage of around 3.6v and do not have any trace of spot welds on them.


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 13, 2012)

*"Even most of the suppliers advertising the 3400's don't even have them in stock."*

Yeah, tell me about it! The ones I "bought" from cnqualitygoods never arrived after about 5-6 weeks. When asked, they said there was a server error that had my order listed as unpaid even though I did in fact pay with Paypal. They then said they were no longer in stock (looking at about another month) and I cancelled my order....still waiting on my Paypal to be credited (since July 6th.) I will never purchase from them again.


----------



## sobreira (Jul 14, 2012)

Colonel Sanders said:


> *"Even most of the suppliers advertising the 3400's don't even have them in stock."*
> 
> Yeah, tell me about it! The ones I "bought" from cnqualitygoods never arrived after about 5-6 weeks. When ....



I bought one of these batteries in cnqualitygoods on June 4. It has arrived without any problem.


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 14, 2012)

Lucky you. :thumbsup: And I'm still awaiting my refund. :thumbsdow Any company that screws my order up this bad and is so slow to refund doesn't deserve my business. *They've had my money since June 11th* and I have exactly nothing to show for it. I went through the same crap when trying to receive the discount on my Magic Scorpion. I did eventually get it but it took some prodding.


----------



## tobrien (Jul 14, 2012)

jasonck08 said:


> Not exactly correct information. There are some bare cells floating around in the market, but most are sample quantities of just a few dozen cells. Even most of the suppliers advertising the 3400's don't even have them in stock. I have a couple sample 3400's, and they came at the normal Panasonic ship voltage of around 3.6v and do not have any trace of spot welds on them.



nice!


----------



## oeL (Feb 14, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



Shadowww said:


> >In the consumer sector, Panasonic’s NCR18650 2.9Ah and 3.1Ah models have used an HRL on the anode and hybrid-type separator with an alumina layer, but the 3.4Ah *NCR18650B will not have an HRL on the anode.*
> /



In the 2013 catalogue there is an interesting piece of information - currently I'm not sure if this is just a clarification or if the 2013's NCR18650B really have changed:

http://www.panasonic-industrial.com/pf_SFC_2013/SFC_2013_Interactive.pdf

- HRL
- capacity 3.350 mAh

Is it sure that NCR18650B released before 2013 missed the HRL? There were some rumors telling so, but I did not find a valuable source for that.


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Feb 14, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

These are my 'unscientific' lux range runtime results for the RediLast 3100mAh 18650 (Panasonic cell) vs Panasonic unprotected 3400mAh NCR18650B

Light tested was a quad Nichia LED dropin 5.6A. Around the 4-5 min mark the outputs pops a little higher for each test because
that's when I removed the light from a flask of ice water for cooling and continue taking its measurement.

*RediLast 3100 18650*

-Start 586 : 2000 Lux @ 2'
00:30 557
01:00 546
01:30 541
02:00 537
03:00 536
04:00 544
05:00 539
10:00 538
15:00 500
20:00 468
25:00 443
30:00 422
40:00 369
65:00 145
70:00 32 protection circuit off

*Panasonic unprotected 3400 NCR18650B*

-Start 633 : 2000 Lux @ 2'
00:30 593
01:00 576
01:30 565
02:00 556
03:00 542
04:00 540
05:00 551
10:00 528
15:00 488
20:00 489
25:00 456
30:00 435
40:00 391
65:00 298
80:00 29 pulled the cells

Measured in minutes.


----------



## moozooh (Feb 14, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

So the 3400s both provide higher lux readings all the way through _and _outperform the theoretical 10% difference in runtime? That's pretty damn good if true. I wonder if a protected cell would have the same kind of performance before protection cutoff. Also, are the Redilasts in the same wear condition as the Panasonics? Since Li-ions degrade inevitably with time, that could tamper with the results.


----------



## tobrien (Feb 14, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

so it doesn't make as much sense to get 2600s anymore eh?


----------



## ledmitter_nli (Feb 14, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

hehe. yeah maybe?

The RediLasts according to selfbuilts charts are top performers in the 3100 range. I really did the test to see how legit these cells where, and they proved themselves.

@moozooh the cell had about 5 charge cycles. I have 6 ordered in Nov. 2012, so they rotate often and never did deep draw during normal use until this test.

However one caveat:

*Test Pair #2: Panasonic unprotected 3400 NCR18650B*

-Start 592 : 2000 Lux @ 2'
00:30 566
01:00 553
01:30 544
02:00 537
03:00 526
04:00 538
05:00 523
10:00 504
15:00 487
20:00 464
25:00 441
30:00 421
40:00 387
65:00 251
70:00 167
75:00 27 pulled the cells

Fresh off the charger. Not all is as cut-and-dry as it seems.







Imported them from Germany. Unprotected on the left. Protected on the right. Will probably sell the protected since they're unopened.


----------



## SeamusORiley (Apr 11, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



ledmitter_nli said:


> hehe. yeah maybe?
> 
> The RediLasts according to selfbuilts charts are top performers in the 3100 range. I really did the test to see how legit these cells where, and they proved themselves.
> 
> ...



Do these fit in the Nitecore TM26?


----------



## space-cowboy (Apr 11, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



SeamusORiley said:


> Do these fit in the Nitecore TM26?



You must use protected, with top button.

Flat top, and unprotected are not compatible with Nitecore TM series.


----------



## mccririck (Aug 28, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

What's the best charge current for these? 1A or 2A? I'm sure someone posted a datasheet somewhere but I cant find it.


----------



## RI Chevy (Aug 28, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I think you would be safer with 1A.


----------



## markr6 (Aug 30, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I just decided to buy a pair of these. They will be my first UNprotected 18650s. I figured I would keep these charged around 3.9v or so for emergencies or just when I think I'll need a backup without the ability to recharge. In all honesty they probably won't see a lot of use so I'll rotate them thru lights from time to time.

I decided to go with the unprotected this time because

1.) like I said they are backups and won't be used every day so I didn't want to spend $15/ea
2.) I've been carefully using and monitoring my protected batteries to a point where I feel completely safe using unprotected

Anyone in the same boat, going from protected to unprotected?


----------



## hjdca (Aug 30, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



space-cowboy said:


> You must use protected, with top button.
> 
> Flat top, and unprotected are not compatible with Nitecore TM series.



I have 4 of these unprotected NCR18650B batteries for almost 1 year... To make sure that they fit all my flashlights, I just solder a bulb of solder on the flat top with some flux.. It puts a button on the top and lets me use these fantastic batteries in every flashlight that I have... It works great ! PS.. I never felt the need to have a protected version of these batteries.... They seem very well made..


----------



## david57strat (Sep 18, 2013)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I have the protected version of these batteries (with the button top) in my Fenix E50, TK22, Nitecore P25, and SolarForce N2N with custom Hi-CRI (XM-L 7C) drop-in, and they work great. Charging them with a Nitecore i4 charger (snug fit, but they do fit). I'll definitely buy more, in the near future


----------



## maxrep12 (Jan 13, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Is there a way to tell if you actually received a 3400 mah Panasonic cell? My unprotected ncr18650b cells have the numbers; 12210 on the label, as well as some stamped numbers on the side; UV 3309. The green and black ncr18650b cells come in several different mah capacities. Is there a way to identify them?


----------



## ChrisGarrett (Jan 13, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



maxrep12 said:


> Is there a way to tell if you actually received a 3400 mah Panasonic cell? My unprotected ncr18650b cells have the numbers; 12210 on the label, as well as some stamped numbers on the side; UV 3309. The green and black ncr18650b cells come in several different mah capacities. Is there a way to identify them?



NCR Bs are 3400mAh. I don't think that they come in different capacities, apart from the newish 3600mAh cell, but that's differently numbered.

Chris


----------



## maxrep12 (Jan 13, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



ChrisGarrett said:


> NCR Bs are 3400mAh. I don't think that they come in different capacities, apart from the newish 3600mAh cell, but that's differently numbered.
> 
> Chris


Well I guess it is as simple as that. Thx.


----------



## abies (Jan 18, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



ledmitter_nli said:


> hehe. yeah maybe?
> 
> The RediLasts according to selfbuilts charts are top performers in the 3100 range. I really did the test to see how legit these cells where, and they proved themselves.
> 
> ...



Hello,

where did you buy them in Germany? :wave:

abies


----------



## dc38 (Jan 29, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Just got a couple unused from a friend...Unprotected NCR 18650B, MH12210. the "sn" is ECV 3416... threw them on the I4 charger at 3.67V and took them out ~2.9 hrs later @ 4.23V each (not a good sign as I believe the i4 charges 2 channels at 700mA. 2.9*700 = x<2100 ) Anyways, I put one in a nitecore SRT7 using an aluminum shim and measured at 10 minute intervals:

V(s)__(A)e__V(e)
4.23V 1.65A 4.05V
4.07V 1.58A 3.94V
3.94V 1.45A 3.83V
3.84V 1.39A 3.75V - STOPPED.

Given that information, the light "consumed" .48V over the course of 40 minutes...continuing that 'mathematical trend' = 
(4.23V - 3V)=1.23V.
(1.23/.48)*40m= 103m or 1h43m.

IF taken till 'safe' termination @ 2.75V
(4.23V-2.75V)=1.48V
(1.48/.48)*40m= 124m or 2h4m. 
2.07h*(~1.47A)= ~3Ah...

Judging from my slipshod measurements and calculations, I must say that I am unsure if the cells that I received (ultimately from Wallbuys) are improperly labelled as 3400 mAh...


----------



## RI Chevy (Jan 29, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

What cells do you think they are? 3100 mAh? 2600 mAh?


----------



## dc38 (Jan 30, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*



RI Chevy said:


> What cells do you think they are? 3100 mAh? 2600 mAh?



These particular cells seem to be 3100 mAh...I tested them several times since yesterday will similar results varying +/- 2.5%


----------



## RI Chevy (Jan 30, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

Hmmm. Interesting. Thanks for doing the testing and sharing with all of us! :thumbsup:


----------



## dc38 (Jan 30, 2014)

*Re: Panasonic NCR18650B*

I'm starting to wonder if the lower than advertised capacity had anything to do with them being subject to prolonged exposure in sub freezing temperatures for almost a week (friggin USPS takes 6 days from Flushing NY to Edison NJ, what a logistics nightmare.) I let them sit and warm up at room temperature for about 4 hours before throwing them on my i4 charger...I was able to run 10 minute intervals with minimal usb fan cooling and got those results. As they are not protected, I didn't want to risk running them any lower than 3.7V as I was unsure if my SRT7 would have auto terminated.


----------



## delus (Mar 2, 2014)

*Now at amazon, button top, protected, Panasonic NCR18650B*

I just ordered a NiWalker Vostro, needed some batteries for it, and look what I found. I think it's the one you've been looking for.
3.7V 3400mAh NCR18650B PCM Rechargeable Li-ion* Protected* Battery for Panasonic --Date first available at Amazon.com: February 20, 2014 

It's got the *button top*. I ordered an 8 pack for $89.00 plus 5 shipping. ..... I wonder why the model number has not changed. Seems like this is a big enough change to at least make the B into a C.

I would post a direct link, but I don't know if it's allowed here on the CPF. :tsk: You know how to use search.


----------



## HKJ (Mar 2, 2014)

*Re: Now at amazon, button top, protected, Panasonic NCR18650B*



delus said:


> I just ordered a NiWalker Vostro, needed some batteries for it, and look what I found. I think it's the one you've been looking for.
> 3.7V 3400mAh NCR18650B PCM Rechargeable Li-ion* Protected* Battery for Panasonic --Date first available at Amazon.com: February 20, 2014
> 
> It's got the *button top*. I ordered an 8 pack for $89.00 plus 5 shipping. ..... I wonder why the model number has not changed. Seems like this is a big enough change to at least make the B into a C..



The NCR18650B is the Panasonic name, they do not change the name on their battery just because somebody adds a button top or a protection to the battery.


----------



## delus (Mar 2, 2014)

*Re: Now at amazon, button top, protected, Panasonic NCR18650B*

Sp the protection on those batteries are NOT from the Panasonic factory.. My mistake.


----------



## ElectronGuru (Mar 2, 2014)

Yeah, marketing trick. Like calling it a Cree flashlight. They don't have enough of a brand, so they hope you will think their work is that of the underlying company's.


----------



## InspectHerGadget (May 10, 2014)

I have a question...

I use 3x 18650 of the Panasonic NCR 18650 B batteries charged in my Nitecore i4 Charger but always only get 4.00 volts or a few hundredths over. The batteries work fine in my MX25L3 but I understand the charging set point is 4.2 volts. These are 68.9mm protected cells. I have only charged them twice so far but I have got the same result both times. Both times they have been on the charger for about 12 hours and indicate fully charged.


----------



## RI Chevy (May 10, 2014)

I personally would buy a new charger. XTAR VP1 or VP2. Your batteries will thank you in the long run.


----------



## InspectHerGadget (May 10, 2014)

RI Chevy said:


> I personally would buy a new charger. XTAR VP1 or VP2. Your batteries will thank you in the long run.


I don't think that is sound advice.

The Nitecore i4 has been reviewed here and was found to be a good charger.

it is possible though mine could have a fault.


----------



## InspectHerGadget (May 11, 2014)

Oh dear. It turned out to be my DMM!

I can't believe it. I always trust the instruments to be right. I checked it against a newer Clamp Meter i had purchased which also has leads of course to measure voltage and so on. It checked out fine at 4.18V, a number of hours after charging so this is just fine.

I hope I contributed in as much as pointing out that tools of measurement can also lead you up the garden path and to possibly expensive solutions like sending back the 'faulty' charger or buying an XTAR!

Now I can express my LOVE for the i4:twothumbs


----------



## RI Chevy (May 11, 2014)

InspectHerGadget said:


> I don't think that is sound advice.
> 
> The Nitecore i4 has been reviewed here and was found to be a good charger.
> 
> it is possible though mine could have a fault.



To each, his own. I would not charge any of my 18650 cells, or any Li-Ion cell with a Nitecore i4. Just me. They overcharge routinely. Just don't trust the charger. Too much bad press on here.


----------



## ChrisGarrett (May 11, 2014)

RI Chevy said:


> To each, his own. I would not charge any of my 18650 cells, or any Li-Ion cell with a Nitecore i4. Just me. They overcharge routinely. Just don't trust the charger. Too much bad press on here.



I'm not a fan of 'all-in-wonders' chargers either, as I've mentioned in the past, but I did get an i4, v.2 in a couple of weeks back and my particular unit has never charged up over 4.20v the dozen plus times I've used it so far.

Even my NiMH batteries were fine, but I haven't fiddled with it a lot.

My C-9000 and VP2 are what's in the kitchen as my 'go to' chargers, however.

Chris


----------



## InspectHerGadget (May 11, 2014)

Same here. It charges to 4.2v as it should.

Happy.


----------



## RI Chevy (May 11, 2014)

InspectHerGadget said:


> Same here. It charges to 4.2v as it should.
> 
> Happy.



That is all that counts!  :thumbsup:


----------



## david57strat (May 11, 2014)

I have two i4 V2 chargers, and (just recently) picked up a VP2. No complaints with the i4s, other than the somewhat stiff spring clips, and the fact that they don't always comfortably accommodate the sometimes larger protected 18650 batteries (lengthwise). I mainly bought the VP2 because I wanted something that could also charge LiFePO4 batteries (which I am now using in all of my CR123 lights, in place of the dreaded primaries), and so I could easily charge 26650 batteries, as well. 

The VP2 is amazing. 

I use all three chargers simultaneously, when I'm doing a 18650 run of charging, so I'm able to charge ten batteries at a time (very handy - really speeds things up).


----------



## InspectHerGadget (May 11, 2014)

I posted on the budget lights forum about this 'issue' I had. It turns out another poster had a dud DMM giving him the opposite problem, overcharging on the i4. It wasn't.

It does mean probably at least some users getting charging issues, it will turn out to be the multimeter and not the charger. It obviously is far from uncommon.


----------



## InspectHerGadget (May 13, 2014)

I had another one of these batteries fail, this time ten minutes into my nightly walk in my MX25L3.

The cells had three charges and maybe five hours use on them in less than a week. The torch was running warmish but not very warm and was on half power when it just died. I tested the cells and found the dead one.

I ordered two pairs of cells a few days apart. I got them before I even got my torch. One was found to be D.O.A.. The seller sent me another one which i received today and I charged it up. I've now had two failures out of five cells, 40% failure rate which I have pointed out to the seller.

I'm either very unlucky or these batteries are junk. I imagine they will send out another one, so we'll see what happens.


----------



## ven (May 13, 2014)

I will be getting a vp2 next week as a spare but will be used mainly to rest the i4,hardly used my wp6 as not had need to charge up to 10 often.But i charge 1 or 2 a day for other uses as well as lights.

Regarding springs yes,tight on i4,i just used some silicon spray on the runners and mead a big difference.There is too much pressure on the negative end,it will throw/catapult cells out if not careful , potentially damaging wrappers or cells too...................


----------



## david57strat (May 13, 2014)

It seems, NiteCore is coming out with a D4 charger, which is very similar, in features, to XTAR's VP2, and is also LiFePO4 capable (nice). I'm itching to pick one or two up when they become available. 

As as for the sticky charging channels in the i4, I used some Nyogel 760 lubricant and applied it in the slots, with a Q-tip, and now everything is smooth as glass.


----------



## ven (May 13, 2014)

Forgot about the D4 David thats was on my must buys ............but i dont know when its coming out,if had a date then it would be easier or just get one anyway as its a 4ch charger......


----------



## markr6 (May 13, 2014)

david57strat said:


> It seems, NiteCore is coming out with a D4 charger, which is very similar, in features, to XTAR's VP2, and is also LiFePO4 capable (nice). I'm itching to pick one or two up when they become available.
> 
> As as for the sticky charging channels in the i4, I used some Nyogel 760 lubricant and applied it in the slots, with a Q-tip, and now everything is smooth as glass.



I like the looks of that but still frustratingly sloooooow. Is it a heat issue? Playing it safe? I wonder


----------



## GeoffS (May 13, 2014)

I am looking for some high drain batteries and came across these Panasonics which are grey in colour. They also have quite a high capacity.

Has anybody had any experience with these batteries? 

*Panasonic NCR18650BD 3.7V 3200mAh Li-ion 10A continuous discharge
*


----------



## ChrisGarrett (May 13, 2014)

GeoffS said:


> I am looking for some high drain batteries and came across these Panasonics which are grey in colour. They also have quite a high capacity.
> 
> Has anybody had any experience with these batteries?
> 
> ...



Looks like it's the successor to the NCR18650PF 2900mAh cell, which succeeded the NCR18650PD and is a hybrid type chemistry. From the one E-cig site I just visited, they're not that common and FastTech was advertising them.

If they're not vaporware, or in the least, hard to find like the 3600s, they seem to be promising. The vapers will like them because some of them like to draw 8A+ and these cells should work in that situation.

ETA:

Not listed on this datasheet:

http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr21pz.cgi?E+BA+3+ACA4001+4++WW

Chris


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## uprightbassmatt (Sep 15, 2014)

I have these Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh (4 unprotected cells) and after one and a half year with my Fenix TK75 this set works perfectly good in any conditions. My charger is Nitecore i4 V2, springs are a bit stiff and power cable a bit loose in the unit however in overall a great charger. Loading last ages though  but I think that's good for batteries for long lasting duty and good performance. Great batteries, no doubt about it. Next ones will be Panasonic for sure.


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## markr6 (Sep 15, 2014)

I purchased two more recently from mountain electronics. I like unprotected, but with button tops since they are still short enough for all lights (that I know of) and the clear wrapper gives a slightly larger diameter to eliminate battery rattle! Perfect!


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## uprightbassmatt (Sep 18, 2014)

*Marshall from Going Gear wrote to me: "I wouldn't use unprotected in any light, especially the high output ones. Too much can go wrong and I don't like things in my hand to violently vent flames and then explode. ﻿"*

That worries me a little...

*I always thought when you use the same brand, the same capacity good quality unprotected cells and fully loaded in good charger with status indicator there is a minor risk that your flashlight will explode in your hand  Fenix TK75 has a safety feature so such a drastic scenario is rather minimal.* It steps down from turbo and after some time it goes to medium when voltage is lower. This is safe checkpoint to load unprotected cells with no risk of explosion. I know a lot of people using unprotected cells with powerful lights and luckily no accidents so far.﻿

*So is it possible to damage good quality cells in high quality flashlight previously loaded in i4V2 charger ?
I use them always together in the same flashlight and load them also in the same time. Still a danger ?
*


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## moozooh (Sep 18, 2014)

There is inherent danger in using any lithium-based battery. Then again, I suppose you aren't afraid of using your cellphone or laptop despite them using the same chemistry (in that respect at least). If you're using protected batteries from a reputable manufacturer, there's nothing you should be particularly wary of short of drowning or overheating them. You can't be 100% sure of everything working fine, of course, but then the same thing can be said about anything.

Protection circuit will disable the negative terminal if it detects overcharge, overdischarge, too high a load, or a short circuit. All of these things you need to take care of yourself it it's unprotected. That's pretty much it. I never buy unprotected cells because of it—I don't like the idea of something accidentally short-circuiting them, or my charger failing and having one of them explode, or me failing to notice something crucial. I'm using i4 myself and it's pretty great, btw.


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