# Custom-made screws...



## jch79 (Sep 10, 2007)

Ok, sorta OT, sorta not...

I've bought a new bicycle, and I'm going to ride it to work (on nice days only ), and although I've never had problems getting my stuff stolen, this bike has some sweet components on it.

SO, to deter (not prevent, as that's impossible) bike thieves (of which there are a LOT here in Chicago!), I'm looking at switching out all of the different sizes of screws from being hex-screws, to security Torx screws, which people would (most likely) not have matching bits for. It's just one more step you can take to be sure that, if someone wants to steel your ride, they've gotta really try for it!

Does anyone know how I might proceed with getting this done? My thoughts are to send a company/person a sample of each screw I need changed over to the security Torx system, and they'd duplicate them. :shrug:

Any thoughts on this process? :candle:

Thanks,
john


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## LukeA (Sep 10, 2007)

I'd actually recommend Tri-wing, security hex, spanner, or Torq-Set screws if you can find them. 'Cause _nobody_ has any of them. This place seems easy to work with. They call spanner "Snake Eyes" and security hex "socket pinhead".

All the drivers for those screws (at least that I recommended) are available in one set here.


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## jch79 (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks for the links, Luke! :thumbsup:

I'm not sure if you can get enough torque out of a Spanner screw. It seems like, if someone was crafty enough, you could drill a hole in a common hex screw to make a security hex. The tri-wing looks cool, as do the torq-set screws.

The Security Torx (or pinhead Torx) seemed to fit the bill nicely, as they're an unconventional bit, and can take high torques.

The main problem I'm thinking, is that most of the screws I need made (maybe 4 different sizes), are socket heads (tamperproof.com doesn't carry those)... the other problem is - who the heck would make only a handful of screws for me, for a not-crazy price? :shrug:

Thanks,
john


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## frenzee (Sep 10, 2007)

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...perator=prodIndexRefinementSearch&L1=Security click on screws.


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## jch79 (Sep 10, 2007)

The problem is that these are very particular in lengths and threading, and I don't think I'm going to be able to find the sizes that I need.

Thanks for the link, frenzee - Hudson Fastners is also a good resource for security screws.

I couldn't find Socket Head security screws on Grainger's website either - that's mostly what I'm going to need.

But I'm a-lookin' for a custom screw maker that could handle this. :shrug:

john


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## KC2IXE (Sep 10, 2007)

Making custom screws is a NON trivial task - seriously non trivial. Almost NO HSM will have the right tools to make the head of the screw (Hint - try to figure out how you would MAKE a say, torx head (nevermind a security Torx) in the end of a piece of metal - easier to go find the screws you need - and order a box of each

And yes, I know how the heads are made - and have even considered buying the right tool on a lark


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## jch79 (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks KC2IXE - 

It's a shot in the dark - who knows, maybe there's a screw manufacturer here on CPF :laughing: :candle:

Your suggestion of trying to find premade screws is a good one - I'll have to scour the web for the sizes I need, but anything's possible! :shrug:

Thanks,
john


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## frenzee (Sep 11, 2007)

jch79 said:


> The problem is that these are very particular in lengths and threading, and I don't think I'm going to be able to find the sizes that I need.
> 
> Thanks for the link, frenzee - Hudson Fastners is also a good resource for security screws.
> 
> ...


 
Well, you COULD prototype just about anything including screws here, or if you really want to get wild, you could CNC the socket and the head and weld the head to a screw shaft, but by the time you add up the cost and the effort, it just might be more than the value of what you're trying to protect. Give it try though, and I hope it works out.


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## kromeke (Sep 11, 2007)

You can use Pitlock on a lot of the components. 

Description at Peter White Cycles: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/pitlock.asp

Pitlock home page:
http://www.pitlock.com/

They make security products for the wheels, seatpost clamp, brakes (at least for v and cantilever brakes), and a threadless headset cap (protects stem, fork and headset). I might have missed some others.

Security torx is a poor choice in my opinion. I remember seeing the security bits for them sold at the local Autozone at one time. Pin-in-hex would be a little better, plus you have a chance to make DIY mods to the existing hex fasteners by drilling a hole and pressing in a pin of the appropriate size. I still have yet to see security hex sold at a local vendor. (edit: now that I think about it, I don't know if I've ever seen pin-in-hex driver bits in metric. If you have the appropriate skills, one could make their own) Bits and screws for pin-in-hex are available from McMaster-Carr (but no metric). 

I really think your needs would probably be met with the Pitlock system, but I've never used it myself, so I'm relying on the literature to accurately describe its features.


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## jch79 (Sep 11, 2007)

kromeke said:


> You can use Pitlock on a lot of the components.



The Pitlock system covers wheels, seatpost, and sometimes drop outs. Those aren't the major concern for me, as both my wheels are locked up, and my seatpost comes with me. My main concern here is the stem and handlebar.. all it'd take was a 5mm hex wrench to remove two screws, and you've got yourself a tricky ride home!



kromeke said:


> Security torx is a poor choice in my opinion. I remember seeing the security bits for them sold at the local Autozone at one time. Pin-in-hex would be a little better, plus you have a chance to make DIY mods to the existing hex fasteners by drilling a hole and pressing in a pin of the appropriate size. I still have yet to see security hex sold at a local vendor. (edit: now that I think about it, I don't know if I've ever seen pin-in-hex driver bits in metric. If you have the appropriate skills, one could make their own) Bits and screws for pin-in-hex are available from McMaster-Carr (but no metric).



I want security Torx _because_ of how hard it is to find. I know it's out there (somewhere), and bicycle thefts are so prominent here in Chicago (I've had one bike stolen), that deterrents like that are just one more step you can take. Wiha makes all the bits I'd ever need for Security Torx (or Security Hex, for that matter), and if I buy a spare tool to have in case one gets lost or damaged, I'm good to go.

Thanks for the response! I talked with McMaster yesterday, and like you said, they don't have Metric, but there are still a bunch of vendors (even some local Chicago screw shops) that might have a size that fit the bill.

 john


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## cmacclel (Sep 11, 2007)

So when the thieves see you have put great effort into detering them they just get mad and smash the bike to pieces  Can't you just bring the bike into your workplace?

Also I have a Wera screwdriver bit set that has almost all of these tamper proof bits included 

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=9322568&PMT4NO=29039479


Mac


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## jch79 (Sep 11, 2007)

cmacclel said:


> Can't you just bring the bike into your workplace?



Hey Mac :wave:

I work on the 33rd floor, and the management doesn't let you bring bikes on the elevators.  Stupid high-rises and their stupid rules. :shakehead

john


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## scott.cr (Sep 11, 2007)

I feel for you, man. Up until age 21 or so, a bicycle was my primary means of transportation. I had a Specialized Stumpjumper (big money for me back then), and it was of course stolen when my $7 K-Mart lock kit was defeated. After that I used an original Kryptonite U-lock and removed the front wheel to lock it to the frame and rear wheel.

Now back to the subject at hand haha... my best security measure was to cross-drill the bolt heads and wire them with automotive stainless steel safety wire. I never lost a part (not even a seat post) to thieves with the safety wire in place and the Krypto lock. Safety wire is defeatable, but not easily, even when you have wire cutters. It's just a pain to remove those little kinked pieces of wire, and you can't put a socket or Allen wrench to the bolt until the wire is completely gone.

Cross-drilling bolts is a fairly precision job... I'm sure you'll get some hits if you put out a request for it. PM me if you want.


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## kromeke (Sep 12, 2007)

Wow. Sounds like you've got everything covered to me, but I don't live in Chicago.

I assume you have a quill stem? The Pitlock system covers threadless stems.

Handle bar clamp. Is it the kind with two screws that hold the bar on with a little "saddle" piece? Or is it the kind with the clamp with single screw to snug the bar up? If it is the latter, you don't need to use a security screw, as you cannot remove the bar without first taking off the grips or the bar tape, not to mention the brakes and shifters and such. Do you have drop bars or upright bars on your bike? Or is this a fixie, with nothing other than grips or tape on the bars? 

If it is a saddle type clamp with two screws, you should have no troubles finding a metric tamper resistant screw that will replace the current ones. I'd say that a pin-in-hex or pin-in-tork will drop right in. 

Screw style head that you need? Socket head cap screw, button head, hex head (unlikely). What are the current styles of screws on the bike?

Here is the problem though. Most of the common tamper resistant screws now have the insert bits available on the market. I think you mis-understood me with the pin-in-torx. I feel that these are more common than the pin-in-hex. You are correct however, that you can buy both styles easily (you are in Chicago, you can probably get them locally).

When I first read this post, I though you were a new bike owner who was overly concerned about minor component theft. But since you've already invested in the Pitlocks, and I do know how much components can cost, I have to wonder if you are worried about vandalism, or do you have some exotic components on this bike? Carbon handlebars? Paul's levers? Phil Wood type stuff? Or are we getting into ever more exotic levels of components? 

I don't need to know, I only ask because the solution quickly starts to exceed the value of the components, unless you fall into one of the uber exotic categories. 

This page explains it better than I: http://www.brycefastener.com/ He has an audio recording that plays, so you should have your volume turned up.

Here is the short version: Security screws are failing. The common ones have bits available. The kind I sell don't have bits available. 

Here is my translation: The kind they sell don't have bits available _yet_. They will work as advertised. They are protected by design patents and the company will go after counterfeit tool manufacturers, they may even also have a code system (like pitlock). This means that the tools to remove the fasteners are controlled. The company probably will not sell you a tool without some fasteners. They will probably charge a good bit of money to deter thieves from obtaining the tools. They don't have pricing on their page. To me this says: "it is gonna cost you". 

*Edit: But check out the Bryce fastener guys. They may be cheaper that I think, and they do have an interesting product. They claim to have millions of possible combinations on the drive tool and screw. They claimed to have developed tooling to make small quantities of screws with unique drive styles. *

There is the cheap solution: Red Locktite. But you will not be able to service the bike without some serious screw destruction in the process. I don't recommend it. I don't recommend it. You can try blue Locktite, but that may just slow a thief down. Blue Locktite with a tamper resistant screw should stop any problems you're likely to have.


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

kromeke said:


> I assume you have a quill stem? The Pitlock system covers threadless stems.



Chris King NoTheadSet - it takes an M6x30mm socket cap screw. I don't think the Pitlock system would cover that?



kromeke said:


> Handle bar clamp. Is it the kind with two screws that hold the bar on with a little "saddle" piece? Or is it the kind with the clamp with single screw to snug the bar up? If it is the latter, you don't need to use a security screw, as you cannot remove the bar without first taking off the grips or the bar tape, not to mention the brakes and shifters and such. Do you have drop bars or upright bars on your bike? Or is this a fixie, with nothing other than grips or tape on the bars?



It's a Thomson Elite stem.. takes four 5x25x.8mm socket cap screws (two on each end). It's a fixie (with bullhorn handles), but it's still got one brake lever. As for being able to steal it - you could remove the two screws holding it to the frame, and cut the one brake cable.



kromeke said:


> If it is a saddle type clamp with two screws, you should have no troubles finding a metric tamper resistant screw that will replace the current ones. I'd say that a pin-in-hex or pin-in-tork will drop right in.



If you can find some with the specs. above, I'd be very impressed! I've not found ONE yet!




kromeke said:


> Screw style head that you need? Socket head cap screw, button head, hex head (unlikely). What are the current styles of screws on the bike?



All socket head cap screws.



kromeke said:


> Here is the problem though. Most of the common tamper resistant screws now have the insert bits available on the market. I think you mis-understood me with the pin-in-torx. I feel that these are more common than the pin-in-hex. You are correct however, that you can buy both styles easily (you are in Chicago, you can probably get them locally).



I guess I'm trying to take every step I can in making it a PITA for people to take my stuff. I ride 365 days a year (winter... brrr...), and my bike is locked up outside, albeit under a shelter, but in an alley.



kromeke said:


> But since you've already invested in the Pitlocks



I haven't purchased them, as my wheels get locked up via U-locks, and my seatpost and saddle are quick release, and are coming with me (if my ride gets stolen, at least they'll have a funky ride with no seat!).



kromeke said:


> Paul's levers? Phil Wood type stuff?


 
:naughty: You're not far off on that guess... I'm doing all US/European components.



kromeke said:


> I don't need to know, I only ask because the solution quickly starts to exceed the value of the components, unless you fall into one of the uber exotic categories.



I agree, at some point, you have to ask yourself if all these measures are worth it as far as the money aspect goes, but the bottom line is that I'm having fun (so far) doing all of this - researching components, talking to my bike shop, and now... security screws!



kromeke said:


> This page explains it better than I: http://www.brycefastener.com/ He has an audio recording that plays, so you should have your volume turned up.
> 
> Here is the short version: Security screws are failing. The common ones have bits available. The kind I sell don't have bits available.
> 
> Here is my translation: The kind they sell don't have bits available _yet_. They will work as advertised. They are protected by design patents and the company will go after counterfeit tool manufacturers, they may even also have a code system (like pitlock). This means that the tools to remove the fasteners are controlled. The company probably will not sell you a tool without some fasteners. They will probably charge a good bit of money to deter thieves from obtaining the tools. They don't have pricing on their page. To me this says: "it is gonna cost you".



I've gone on their page several times, and it's very interesting. I think I've even exchanged emails with them, but maybe it's time for a phone call today, to see if they can even do socket head cap screws. :shrug: I agree that they're probably not cheap (you probably have to buy at least 1,000 screws... when all I need is four of one size and one of another! :duh2:



kromeke said:


> There is the cheap solution: Red Locktite. But you will not be able to service the bike without some serious screw destruction in the process. I don't recommend it. I don't recommend it. You can try blue Locktite, but that may just slow a thief down. Blue Locktite with a tamper resistant screw should stop any problems you're likely to have.



I've thought about going down a similar road - people put wax inside the hex recess, or I have a friend who superglues a BB inside each of his screws. However, I don't want the bike to be be a PITA to be serviced on - I like cleaning and futzing with my bikes! 

Thanks for the great response, Kromeke! What kinda biking do you do? I'm a hard-core commuter who has desires of racing "one of these days"...

Thanks,
john


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## kromeke (Sep 12, 2007)

If your Chris King no-threadset is 1-1/8, then there is a pitlock for it: http://peterwhitecycles.com/pitlock.asp Scroll down to set #9. It costs $50.50. The threadless headset design is standardized, so the pitlock should work fine with any threadless headset of the correct size.

This should also keep the stem on, as if you take the bolts out that hold it on the steerer, you can only spin it around, not take it off. 

As to the bar itself, I'll look around for some metric tamper resistant screws. I have a few sources still up my sleeve.

As to my biking: I commute via urbanized mountain bike. It has also gotten some Rivendell treatment a little, with some Nitto bars and bar-end shifters.

I'm just a bike nut, I have several that need building and I've got a tandem for fun. I like to do my own wrenching. 

-Keith


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

I'm not sure what size headset I'm getting... I'll check my bike shop to see what size it needs. I'd get the Pitlock if it fit alright!

Rivendell.... mmmm...  :thumbsup:

My new frame is a Milwaukee Bicycle Company, which are steel frames made by Waterford in Wisconsin. 

Let me know if you could find metric tamper resistant screws with socket head caps... that would be impressive! McMaster has 'em, but not metric. 

Thanks,
john


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## kromeke (Sep 12, 2007)

Metric button heads are available. (both torx and hex w/pins) 

Non-button head tamper resistant screws are uncommon. The button head is used so pliers cannot grip it. If it is a counterbored hole, a normal profile socket head screw would be recessed, so one couldn't also grip it with pliers.

Is your stem such that the diameter of the screw head is critical? Is it a counterbored hole? 

Do you frequent bikeforums.net?

On a serious note, it would be interesting if one would correspond with Bryce about a run of screws for a specific group buy. On one page they said they had a 2k minimum on the screws and a 10 piece minimum on the tool. 

The idea would be to get a specific group together to agree to buy a common set of screws and tools. Every member of the group would have a tool for the screw. Select a screw design that is over length such that one could cut the screw down to most any size needed for bicycle applications. By spreading it out over a group, it may become cost effective. Presumably, if the group size is small enough, you don't have to worry about a member of the group compromising the security of the system. I'm sure you could find 20 people to buy 200 screws each if the cost was reasonable (I buy screws in quantities of 100 anyway, in that particular size range). 

Just a thought.

Oh, And I'd be one of the interested parties, should one want to do a group purchase.


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

kromeke said:


> Metric button heads are available. (both torx and hex w/pins)



I need a socket head cap screw... or at least that's what the current stem and headset use. Example pictured here (just a plain-jane hex screw):









kromeke said:


> Non-button head tamper resistant screws are uncommon. The button head is used so pliers cannot grip it. If it is a counterbored hole, a normal profile socket head screw would be recessed, so one couldn't also grip it with pliers.
> 
> Is your stem such that the diameter of the screw head is critical? Is it a counterbored hole?



Hmmm... this is something I don't know yet, as the bike's in the process of being built at a bike shop. :thinking: I'm trying to prepare now, so when the bike gets here, I can swap out screws, however, I might not be able to know what would work until I actually get the existing screws and the parts they screw into, to know all of my options! :shrug:



kromeke said:


> Do you frequent bikeforums.net?
> 
> On a serious note, it would be interesting if one would correspond with Bryce about a run of screws for a specific group buy. On one page they said they had a 2k minimum on the screws and a 10 piece minimum on the tool.



I am on bikeforums occasionally, however I'm trying to do this just for me (and any of my fellow CPF'rs!), as there are a lot of Chicago bikers (some that I know and don't trust) lurking there. That's why I'm bringing this discussion here, as I feel much more safe and at home on CPF than bikeforums.net!



kromeke said:


> The idea would be to get a specific group together to agree to buy a common set of screws and tools. Every member of the group would have a tool for the screw. Select a screw design that is over length such that one could cut the screw down to most any size needed for bicycle applications. By spreading it out over a group, it may become cost effective. Presumably, if the group size is small enough, you don't have to worry about a member of the group compromising the security of the system. I'm sure you could find 20 people to buy 200 screws each if the cost was reasonable (I buy screws in quantities of 100 anyway, in that particular size range).



It's certainly a good idea... however, it seems like the screw dims. change from bike to bike, and can vary quite a bit, so I'm not sure what the chances would be that everyone would need that specific screw size? :shrug:

I'm not givin' up though... there's so many screw companies out there, that someone's gotta do it! :candle:

 john


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## TranquillityBase (Sep 12, 2007)

Fill the heads with epoxy, then you wouldn't need any new fasteners.

After you have the bike set-up to your satisfaction, chances are you won't be making adjustments...Epoxy is easy to remove, but would foil a thief.

Just a thought...

Edit: Or, drill and pin the SHCS, so you would have jch79 security screws...Light press fit for the center pin, or a slip, no slop fit, with some anerobic adhesive to hold the pin.

Johnny you're killin' me...there must at least 234,723,492,384 ways to do this...


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

TranquillityBase said:


> Fill the heads with epoxy, then you wouldn't need any new fasteners.
> 
> After you have the bike set-up to your satisfaction, chances are you won't be making adjustments...Epoxy is easy to remove, but would foil a thief.


 
Any idea of an epoxy that wouldn't be a total PITA to remove with the right solvent? Something that wouldn't harm the screw, but would be simple enough while still on the bike... :thinking: 



TranquillityBase said:


> Or, drill and pin the SHCS, so you would have jch79 security screws...Light press fit for the center pin, or a slip, no slop fit, with some anerobic adhesive to hold the pin.


 
I don't want to compromise the structural integrity of the screws... I'm actually thinking of a different idea that might work along these lines, which I'll PM you. 



TranquillityBase said:


> Johnny you're killin' me...there must at least 234,723,492,384 ways to do this...



You're just saying that because of your sigline! :nana: :wave: Not all of us are as smart as you, buddy boy! :tinfoil:

john


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## TranquillityBase (Sep 12, 2007)

Oh for land sakes me laddy...

Go to Mcmaster.com, copy and paste this ----> socket head cap screws, in the search box...many a good eye deers shall follow.

Edit: Check out the vented SHCS

Edit: 2....Baaaa, scratch the vented, no metric.

I think epoxy would pull out, in one piece, with a strong dental pick type tool...Gotta experiment. You should be able to find an acceptable release agent, through experimention, and then you'ld be able to remove the epoxy plug, with an amount of effort you determine.


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

TranquillityBase said:


> Oh for land sakes me laddy...
> 
> Go to Mcmaster.com, copy and paste this ----> socket head cap screws, in the search box...many a good eye deers shall follow.
> 
> Edit: Check out the vented SHCS



Well shiver me timbers! :nana:

I already went there (and talked to McMaster as well) - they indeed would have the right size of socket head cap screws, however not in any security screw. :shrug: So if a useful solution (epoxy or drilling) is found, McMaster has the screws to experiment with.





john


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## TranquillityBase (Sep 12, 2007)

OK smarty pants, drop all those ideas...

How about, one of those tiny little super magnets, at the bottom of said SHCS, and a piece of the properly sized allen to fill the void...You just need to have a stronger magnet to remove the 'hex plug'...Simple, inexpensive, non-destructive, and you could use all the existing fasteners.

Oh Johnny, I think we're gettin' there...


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

TranquillityBase said:


> OK smarty pants, drop all those ideas...
> 
> How about, one of those tiny little super magnets, at the bottom of said SHCS, and a piece of the properly sized allen to fill the void...You just need to have a stronger magnet to remove the 'hex plug'...Simple, inexpensive, non-destructive, and you could use all the existing fasteners.
> 
> Oh Johnny, I think we're gettin' there...



That's a very cool solution - if you found a strong enough magnet that fit inside the hex recess, you could just cut down a tight-fitting allen and precision file it to fit the hole... hmmmmm......

- Mr. Smart E. Pants :tinfoil:


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## McGizmo (Sep 12, 2007)

jch79,

A brilliant fellow in Canada who set my brother and I up in our moped business had a couple companies based on machine shop production and one division was set up to provide tamper proof fasteners to utility companies in Ontario and I suppose elsewhere. He was the first guy I saw drilling a tiny hole in socket head allen screws and then pressing a pin in the center. He bought allen wrenches and then center drilled them to allow slipping over the pins in the screws. This is certainly something that is viable and doable by a local shop for you.

I also think the epoxy is a good idea but don't look for a solvent to remove it. A heat gun should soften it enough for picking it out.

I had a friend who worked as a maintenance guy for United and he gave me a handfull of the Tri-Wing screws and the needed drivers. I have used these in applications where I didn't want someone to be able to easily remove something. In fact, I have installed my license plates with these just for the heck of it. I believe they are a bit exotic and not likely easy to find in the thread and grip length you may need. The ones I have are all fine thread and not socket head cap screw type.

Another possibility you could consider is to drill out the hexpocket to round and chamfering the head of the cap to make it difficult for plier removal. If you needed to remove the screws, you could use an "easy out" or one of the other type of screw removers. This is not a pretty solution but a deterrent none the less, me thinks.


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## TranquillityBase (Sep 12, 2007)

Almost there, Mr. Pants of the smartness...drop one of those battery mags in a SHCS, and try to get it back out...Have fun!

If you have a SHCS that requires a 5mm allen, just cut the appropriate length piece of that hex key, no need for precision anything...get out the old Dremmel, and the cut-off disk...Put some safety goggles on Corduroy too, and don't start the place on fire...


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

McGizmo said:


> A brilliant fellow in Canada who set my brother and I up in our moped business had a couple companies based on machine shop production and one division was set up to provide tamper proof fasteners to utility companies in Ontario and I suppose elsewhere. He was the first guy I saw drilling a tiny hole in socket head allen screws and then pressing a pin in the center. He bought allen wrenches and then center drilled them to allow slipping over the pins in the screws. This is certainly something that is viable and doable by a local shop for you.



It is a cool idea - the DIY security screw. I suppose one could play around with how shallow the hole needs to be drilled to allow the pin to be strong enough to withstand any tampering, yet not be deep to the point where you might be worried about the strength of the screw. :shrug:



McGizmo said:


> I also think the epoxy is a good idea but don't look for a solvent to remove it. A heat gun should soften it enough for picking it out.



Great idea. I wonder what epoxy would be ideal for such a situation? :thinking:



McGizmo said:


> I had a friend who worked as a maintenance guy for United and he gave me a handfull of the Tri-Wing screws and the needed drivers. I have used these in applications where I didn't want someone to be able to easily remove something. In fact, I have installed my license plates with these just for the heck of it. I believe they are a bit exotic and not likely easy to find in the thread and grip length you may need. The ones I have are all fine thread and not socket head cap screw type.



There are companies who would make custom "one-off" screws, with their own unique bit (such as Bryce Fastener), however they have minimums in the thousands... and I only need a total of FIVE! 



McGizmo said:


> Another possibility you could consider is to drill out the hexpocket to round and chamfering the head of the cap to make it difficult for plier removal. If you needed to remove the screws, you could use an "easy out" or one of the other type of screw removers. This is not a pretty solution but a deterrent none the less, me thinks.



Not a bad idea.. however, the socket head caps fit in to the point where plier removal isn't something I'm worried about. :shrug:

Thanks Don! :wave:
john


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

TranquillityBase said:


> If you have a SHCS that requires a 5mm allen, just cut the appropriate length piece of that hex key, no need for precision anything...get out the old Dremmel, and the cut-off disk...Put some safety goggles on Corduroy too, and don't start the place on fire...



Anything I can do to bust out the Dremel tool! :rock:

Corduroy lives with the GF blocks away... Oatie is at my house. They've met a few times.. and despite being a big ol' cat, Oatie couldn't be more of a scaredy-cat! (get it?)

"The musician's cat.."






His left eye has a small set of eyelids, so he's always sort of winking at you. 

john


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## TranquillityBase (Sep 12, 2007)

OK, I fold...

John, PM your address, so I can get this 'other thing' in the mail, to you...And I'll make sure to fill those little Ti SHCS with epoxy:nana:

Actually, I agree with Mac 100%...If you pee the thief off with your security measures, they will more than likely trash the bike. My NYC brother and I, had a long discussion about bike security measures, and he said the same thing...If they can't steal it, they will trash it.


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

TranquillityBase said:


> ...And I'll make sure to fill those little Ti SHCS with epoxy:nana:


 
Just put pin-sized magnets in 'em. :nana:



TranquillityBase said:


> Actually, I agree with Mac 100%...If you pee the thief off with your security measures, they will more than likely trash the bike. My NYC brother and I, had a long discussion about bike security measures, and he said the same thing...If they can't steal it, they will trash it.



Well I'd rather have it trashed than stolen! Well, mostly anyways... :shrug: It might be a lose-lose situation - and you have to realize that, if someone WANTS to steal your bike, they CAN and WILL... it's just a matter of how much time it takes them to do it!

Any ideas on how to wire a bike frame & its components to be able to give an electric shock if touched? :devil:

john


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## TranquillityBase (Sep 12, 2007)

I guess this means you're off the Ti emblem interest list...More for me :nana:


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## jch79 (Sep 12, 2007)

TranquillityBase said:


> I guess this means you're off the Ti emblem interest list...More for me :nana:



Are you ever going to actually GET your bike?!?

As for the emblems... I'm still hoping to get the Wisconsin badge, but I'm not having a "Milwaukee" emblem put on it - despite looking FRIGGIN' COOL, I don't want to attract any more attention to my hot ride than it already will! The more bland looking a bike is, the less likely it is to get stolen.

I'm still contemplating getting the handlebar, stem, and seatpost all stripped and re-anodized, so they don't have any logos. It might be overkill, but hey, that's how I roll.

john


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## TranquillityBase (Sep 12, 2007)

> jch79 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you ever going to actually GET your bike?!?
> ...


 


It kinda turned into the emblem thing, more than the bike thing...


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