# Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - **Got Seraph SP-6/IMR-9+D26-G4+WA1111**



## hoongern (Nov 26, 2009)

Hi guys,

Up until now, I have been an LED person up until now, but I've always been curious on how incans perform, and I've never had a proper one (other than those cheapo 2aa/3D ones). So, I've been looking for a decent incan.

Since I always carry LED flashlights with me (Liteflux LF2XT, Fenix E01, PD30 and Quark AA w/ 14500), I don't care too much about runtime. I was thinking of the following:

Solarforce L2 + Lumens Factory IMR-9 (500lumens) + 2x AW 16340 IMRs

How would that work? The Solarforce would be a clicky, I've read that twisties are needed for high currents - is the L2 ok on this? Also, does the IMR-9 come with a reflector? (I think it does?)

I'm assuming that this would blow away my current brightest PD30?

However, I'm also thinking of getting a lower output module for use with the IMRs or regular AW Li-Co 16340s - what would be good? Around 80 lumens. I was looking at Lumens Factory ES-6 but it's rated at 6V while the 16340s would put out 8.4V - would this blow the bulb - and can it be used with a single 18650 @ 4.2V? 

I may also look for a decent P60 LED dropin later on, but I'm just interested in the incan for now.

Also, I've seen the Solarforce L2 for $6 online - are these fakes?

Thanks!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Nov 26, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



hoongern said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Up until now, I have been an LED person up until now, but I've always been curious on how incans perform, and I've never had a proper one (other than those cheapo 2aa/3D ones). So, I've been looking for a decent incan.
> 
> ...


A real "pocket" rocket should be smaller than that... I consider the SureFire E2E + IMR-E2 + 2x16340 IMR to be the ultimate incandescent pocket rocket. The L2 is a huge light next to an E2E...

If you want to stick with the P60 form factor and get the most brightness out of it, then you have the SureFire P91 which is alot brighter than the IMR-9. Yes, all P60 compatible lamp asemblies come with the xenon lamp mounted in a reflector, that's why they are called lamp assemblies and not just bulbs.




> However, I'm also thinking of getting a lower output module for use with the IMRs or regular AW Li-Co 16340s - what would be good? Around 80 lumens. I was looking at Lumens Factory ES-6 but it's rated at 6V while the 16340s would put out 8.4V - would this blow the bulb - and can it be used with a single 18650 @ 4.2V?


That's easy, just use the LF *ES-9 *with your regular liCo or IMR cells. Don't bother with a single li-ion, it will be horribly yellow and dim.


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## Dioni (Nov 26, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

There is also the FM d26 bi-pin adapter for a amazing output. However, talking about LA, nothing better the P91.

I agree that E-series body has better features to a pocket rocket. So, how about a McGizmo adapter to C head to E body? :naughty:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/250039

Cheers,
Dioni


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## Dioni (Nov 26, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



hoongern said:


> Also, I've seen the Solarforce L2 for $6 online - are these fakes?


 
Whole light? FAKE.


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## hoongern (Nov 26, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> A real "pocket" rocket should be smaller than that... I consider the SureFire E2E + IMR-E2 + 2x16340 IMR to be the ultimate incandescent pocket rocket. The L2 is a huge light next to an E2E...



I'm fine with the L2's form factor. Unfortunately, Surefire is out of my budget - I'm hoping not to go about $50-60 minus batteries. 



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> If you want to stick with the P60 form factor and get the most brightness out of it, then you have the SureFire P91 which is alot brighter than the IMR-9. Yes, all P60 compatible lamp asemblies come with the xenon lamp mounted in a reflector, that's why they are called lamp assemblies and not just bulbs.



Is the P91 significantly brighter than the IMR-9? How do their beam patterns compare? From what I hear, the IMR-9 is pretty floody. Also - is the P91 overdriven on 2xIMRs? 



Dioni said:


> There is also the FM d26 bi-pin adapter for a amazing output. However, talking about LA, nothing better the P91.
> 
> I agree that E-series body has better features to a pocket rocket. So, how about a McGizmo adapter to C head to E body? :naughty:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/250039



Actually, I was seriously considering the FM d26 bi-pin adapter - but from the looks of the sales thread, it's no longer available. If it is, I'd love to have it with the WA1111. Is the adapter available anywhere?



Dioni said:


> Whole light? FAKE.



Thought so =)


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## FlashKat (Nov 26, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Are you looking for a bright throw light or bright flood light?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Nov 26, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



FlashKat said:


> Are you looking for a bright throw light or bright flood light?


Huge throw with a 26mm reflector is virtually impossible. All these extreme-high output P60 lamp assemblies are all pretty darn floody with limited throw.


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## hoongern (Nov 26, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Yup, I expect these to be pretty floody. Which is fine by me. (When I want throw I'll go build a [email protected]/ROP or something)


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## Dioni (Nov 26, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



hoongern said:


> Is the P91 significantly brighter than the IMR-9? How do their beam patterns compare? From what I hear, the IMR-9 is pretty floody. Also - is the P91 overdriven on 2xIMRs?


Yep. it will be orverdriven. IMR-9 and P91 are a bit similar, but the P91 is brighter.



> Actually, I was seriously considering the FM d26 bi-pin adapter - but from the looks of the sales thread, it's no longer available. If it is, I'd love to have it with the WA1111. Is the adapter available anywhere?


The FM D26 adapter to G4 bulbs [IE WA1111] is sold out, but the G2 version [IE FM1794] is still in stock.

*Look these threads:*
[URL="https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213022"][/URL] 
FM1794 w/ FM D26 G2 by Rich
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213022

FM D26 G2 sales thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190833

Cheers,
Dioni


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## FlashKat (Nov 27, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

I found this out using the FM26 G4 with a 1185 running in my Surefire 6P with a Solarforce adapter powered by 3 IMR16340 batteries. I still like it alot.


Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Huge throw with a 26mm reflector is virtually impossible. All these extreme-high output P60 lamp assemblies are all pretty darn floody with limited throw.


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## hoongern (Nov 27, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Due to cost issues and lack of international shipping on some items, I am considering getting a Seraph SP-6 instead, with the built in SR-6/D26 for my low output needs, and an IMR-9 on 2xIMR16340s for high output. 

How would this be? And to confirm - would the SR-6 (6volts) not instaflash on 2 LiCo/LiMn 16340s? (I don't use 123 primaries)

Surefires are just too expensive here in Malaysia (unless there are cheap sources I don't know about) and I can't seem to find any Solarforce dealers which ship here without choking up high prices, and I won't be going to the US for a couple months.

From looking at beamshots: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/235143 it actually seems that these LAs are a LOT throwier than I expected (even from what everyone has been saying about them being floody). 

Is there any way to make a D26 _really_ floody?


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## nfetterly (Nov 28, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Surprising amount of throw (P91 / FM1794 / WA1185 (FM Sunspot))

My favorite incans are;
P91 in Surefire 6P (2 x IMR 16340s) (posted a WTB P91s and picked up ~6)
FM1794 in FM holder (run this in a FM 2x18650 ("12P")
WA1185 in FM Sunspot (run in Leef 3x18650)

I use AW 3-level soft starts in all three. Obviously this will help lessen insta-flashing, but it's an expensive (~$50) solution.

This thread reminded me - I really need to do a beamshot comparison of the P91 & FM1794 - from memory I would say the FM1794 is more impressive.

The Leef 3x18650 is a bit on the long side, suppose I could run it in a 9P - but I often use it when a co-worker takes out his magcharger - makes my 3x18650 look small at that point!


Nite was selling FM bodies - and I think whole packages (bezel & tail) - not sure if he ships overseas - great to work with.
He also has a deal setup where he special ordered the FM1794 bulbs from Carley (I got 10).


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## Dioni (Nov 28, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Talking a little more about pocket rocket, I decided to post some pics.

*Size comparisson* 
L to R: SF 6P, FM 3P, SF E2E, SF E1E with VME Head
[by Mr. Black]








*Beamshots comparisson*
[I dont remember who posted it] :candle:













E2e really seems to be unbeatable as poket rocket.
I know the OP does not want to spend much, but I thought would be interesting to compare.

Cheers,
Dioni


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## 325addict (Nov 29, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

I have another solution - take a C2 Centurion, add a "Sun"-module by FiveMega with a WA1111 in it and take, indeed, 2X IMR 16340. 
Success guaranteed, with over 3 Amps of current :devil:

Runtime will be very, very short though. Less than 10 minutes!


Timmo.


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## hoongern (Nov 29, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



Dioni said:


> *Beamshots comparisson*
> [I dont remember who posted it] :candle:
> 
> E2e really seems to be unbeatable as poket rocket.
> ...



I bookmarked those beamshots a while back - they came from here: http://superfonarik.ru/article_info.php?articles_id=11 =) Pretty good stuff.

I guess I can define 'pocket' for me as 6p-sized. I'm actually a bit concerned about heat, running these halogens at high temps in a tropical country is something I'm not too sure about. But I doubt that I'd use it for prolonged periods - for that I'd switch to a LOLA or LED. The E2e does look pretty awesome though - great flood as well!




325addict said:


> I have another solution - take a C2 Centurion, add a "Sun"-module by FiveMega with a WA1111 in it and take, indeed, 2X IMR 16340.
> Success guaranteed, with over 3 Amps of current :devil:
> 
> Runtime will be very, very short though. Less than 10 minutes!
> ...



So, after doing more research, I'm more and more undecided. 

Body/Host (other suggestions welcome): 
- Surefire is unfortunately out for now. They're hugely overpriced where I am.
- Seraph SP-6: Easiest for me. How's the lens on this? Does it hold up to the heat? Also - Does anyone know the current ratings for the twisty tailcap? I'll probably use the twisty as it's more reliable at high currents than the clicky. 
- Solarforce L2: How does this compare with the Seraph? Would the tailcap be able to take the high currents of 3-4amps?

Drop-in/bulbs [I DO NOT have a soft-start switch]: 
- Still considering the IMR-9 (straightforward), but now leaning towards the FM26 adapter. 
- Bulbs: I got an offer on some first-run FM1794 bulbs, and these look tempting - however, it seems that Carley is going to be making these with improved nickel leads - does anyone know how long it will take before these are available? Or are there any similar bulbs for 7-8V usage?
- I'm considering using an extender with the WA1185 as those bulbs seem pretty cheap & effective. How much extra performance would I get from these? (According to Luxluther's tests, 1794: [email protected], 1185: [email protected])
- Other than Nite (FM1794) and Litho (WA1185/WA1111), who else around here sells bi-pin halogens?

Hope that's not too many questions! Also, if I have to, I may wait off on my purchases until I can save up a bit more $.


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## Linger (Nov 30, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Hoongern,
You said *budget $50-60*. For ~$15 on marketplace you can get a SF p91.
2x 16340 IMR cells
Solarforce L2 (or Sereph) host
The tailcaps will work for P91, I have used this set-up.

--Stop there. Get that, try it out. You don't need to buy everything right now. This set-up works with any p60 drop-in, so there are 50 thousand LED options you can use in it too. So you're not really out anything (infact I suggest you do use p60 format for leds as its so easy to customize/modernize.) This set-up also works for many many great incan options. You posted that you wanted to try and incan, get a P91 and smile. If after 1 month you've used it so much you've burnt out the bulb, maybe you like incans and you can get some more. Otherwise you're spending $500 dollars for a shelf-queen and you keep EDC'ing your Quark. Forget 'lola' or anything else. You've already got 3 led lights in your pocket if you need longer run time. Get a solid incan performer (the p91) use it well, only you can determine how it integrates with your light usage patterns.

More flood is a few buck on a dx G&P 9v bulb. Avoid 6v bulbs unless you're using SLA batteries. Do use 4.2v, 9.0v:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228965
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/161536


You can't use bi-pin bulbs with-out a custom holder (From FiveMega or used resale, $30-35 plus shipping). Recognizing different bulbs by the beam-pattern is the super user level. You're just starting out. Will any noobie feel the differences between an EO-9, P91, WA 1111, .... ? Pick up something cheap from the market place and give it a shot first. You've the rest of your life to spend more money.
halogen bulbs need heat, and with the amount they generate ambient temp isn't a big factor. however you do want to keep the batteries from getting too hot (i don't know if this is concern for SF e series on extended run or not)

!when you get to bi-pin bulbs, and cell extenders, you are over the 3amp limit of your tail-cap. Then you burn out the clicky (I burnt out my tailcap the night I got my FMSunlight+1111) Then you need to make your own clickies and thermistor // or // ~$20-50 for custom made clicky // or // $50 AW soft-start. Then you're putting out too much heat and need to replace lens. Then you're looking for limited or custom run bulbs...
Remember people here are uber incan. They suggest more $ in modifications than you need to spend for your first budget incan rocket ($15 bulb, $20 host, $12 cells). You just wanted to try incan, remember to put the paypal down and take a few minutes to savour your purchase.

!High pressure bulbs - use eye protection when-ever they are exposed! The first time I blew a bi-pin in my [email protected] hotwire I thought we need to get rid of the 'poof' icon because there is nothing gentle when a high pressure halogen bulb explodes and glass shard fly. I was safe because the explosion was contained by the borofloat lens and solid metal cam/camless reflector. !read up on safe handling!


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## hoongern (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



Linger said:


> Hoongern,
> You said *budget $50-60*. For ~$15 on marketplace you can get a SF p91.
> 2x 16340 IMR cells
> Solarforce L2 (or Sereph) host
> ...



Hey Linger,

Thanks for your post. You actually made some good points, many of which I had realized shortly after my previous post, and that you reinforced. 

For a first incan, I'm probably just going to go with the Seraph SP-6 and [if I can find one] P91, otherwise the IMR-9. As you said - if I don't like it, I can always slap in some LED drop-in. 

If I like it, I may either get a FM G4/D26, or perhaps also try out the D36 line (of course, no longer being pocket rockets)

But one thing I'll say - beam patterns have made a big influence on my purchases so far (Esp my move to smoother XP-Es - my LF2XT and Quark) and I have been looking for something floody (thought of using a bigger bulb in a D26/shallow reflector) - so assuming the same applies to LEDs and incans with beam patters, I'm sure I'd appreciate a good beam, depending on what I wanted =) Maybe I'm mistaken? But anyway, thanks for all the solid advice. I definitely have read up on those exploding 1794s and melted clickies / shorted IMRs. Sounds scary!


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## ampdude (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

How much current does the IMR-E2 drain off of a freshly charged pair of IMR cells?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



ampdude said:


> How much current does the IMR-E2 drain off of a freshly charged pair of IMR cells?



Around 2 Amps.


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## ampdude (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Oh good, you could still run it off of primaries then if you had to.


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## Dioni (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



ampdude said:


> Oh good, you could still run it off of primaries then if you had to.


 
It's a "9v" bulb.


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## ampdude (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



Dioni said:


> It's a "9v" bulb.



I know, I carry an e-series one cell extender adapter in my vehicle glove boxes along with my spare battery carriers and bulbs. In case I need extended runtime.


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## hoongern (Dec 1, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

I decided to go ahead with a purchase of a Seraph SP-6 with an IMR-9 module, which will be run with 2xIMR16340s. I hope it works out well, and if it doesn't, I can always put in an LED module. Thanks for all the help! 

I hope to be able to try out some fancier setups in the future, but we'll see how this one goes first!


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## Dioni (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



ampdude said:


> I know, I carry an e-series one cell extender adapter in my vehicle glove boxes along with my spare battery carriers and bulbs. In case I need extended runtime.


 
oh, sorry. I didn't know about this extender to e-series 
I think you will have no problems with the primaries.



hoongern said:


> I decided to go ahead with a purchase of a Seraph SP-6 with an IMR-9 module, which will be run with 2xIMR16340s. I hope it works out well, and if it doesn't, I can always put in an LED module. Thanks for all the help!
> 
> I hope to be able to try out some fancier setups in the future, but we'll see how this one goes first!


 
Nice choice! You will not regret it.


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## ampdude (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Yea, I would only be concerned if the draw was 2.8A or more.


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## mudman cj (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

The nominal 2.25 Amp draw of the IMR-E2 has caused the spring in a Z57 clicky to fail. I don't know how that compares to the switch in the Seraph.


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## ampdude (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

How did the spring fail? I usually use a Z52, but it has the same gauge spring.

I'm concerned about my Vital Gear's tailcap now as well.


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## Bluehinder (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> A real "pocket" rocket should be smaller than that... I consider the SureFire E2E + IMR-E2 + 2x16340 IMR to be the ultimate incandescent pocket rocket. The L2 is a huge light next to an E2E...
> 
> If you want to stick with the P60 form factor and get the most brightness out of it, then you have the SureFire P91 which is alot brighter than the IMR-9. Yes, all P60 compatible lamp asemblies come with the xenon lamp mounted in a reflector, that's why they are called lamp assemblies and not just bulbs.
> 
> ...


 Which tailcap to use with a stock E2E? Twisty or clicky?


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## Dioni (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



mudman cj said:


> The nominal 2.25 Amp draw of the IMR-E2 has caused the spring in a Z57 clicky to fail. I don't know how that compares to the switch in the Seraph.


 
I also dont know, but one of the advantages of seraph is that it comes with two tailcaps: clicky and twist.


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## ^^Nova^^ (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

The Seraph has a twisty and a clicky. The clicky is rated at 2A max, LF recommend the twisty for hhigher powered lamps (IMR series etc).

Cheers,
Nova


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## mudman cj (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

My memory was not quite right on the clicky failure. It was not a Z57, but a clicky from an E2D. I believe the tailcap is similar to the Z68 for the E series, and may also have similar internals to the Z57. Can anyone comment on this? 

Here is the link. Start reading at post #356.


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## mudman cj (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



ampdude said:


> How did the spring fail? I usually use a Z52, but it has the same gauge spring.
> 
> I'm concerned about my Vital Gear's tailcap now as well.



What I did to my Z52 was add a piece of braided copper solder wick to run from the bottom of the spring to the top. The copper will carry the current and prevent the spring from overheating and losing its temper.


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## Linger (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Hoongern,
Sounds like some good choices, but as I think about it you're basically sticking with your original post.
Do me a favour - get outa the city some where when you give the incan a decent run. Take a warm tint and a cool tint led's too if possible, the comparisons may accentuate the strengths of incans (throw, enhanced contrast).

(I just recieved order of bi-pins, trying my first 1274 for FMSunlight)


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## Linger (Dec 2, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



mudman cj said:


> add a piece of braided copper solder wick to run from the bottom of the spring to the top



+1, standard [email protected] resistance mod, brilliant point (i'm actually doing this right now)


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## hoongern (Dec 3, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



Dioni said:


> I also dont know, but one of the advantages of seraph is that it comes with two tailcaps: clicky and twist.



This is actually why I decided to go with the Seraph - the fact that it comes with a [high current] twisty. Also, LumensFactory allowed me to custom order the SP-6 w/ IMR-9, which was great 



Linger said:


> Hoongern,
> Sounds like some good choices, but as I think about it you're basically sticking with your original post.
> Do me a favour - get outa the city some where when you give the incan a decent run. Take a warm tint and a cool tint led's too if possible, the comparisons may accentuate the strengths of incans (throw, enhanced contrast).
> 
> (I just recieved order of bi-pins, trying my first 1274 for FMSunlight)



I will do my best. I am planning on doing outdoor hiking etc, but probably not before February because of work. Meanwhile, the park where I walk every night will have to make do!

Btw, any recommendations on how to diffuse the light if I want it floodier? I'm afraid of using tape / plastic covers as I do with LEDs, as this incan will be a lot hotter.


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## ampdude (Dec 3, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

I very much doubt you'll want the output from the D26 sized reflector any floodier outdoors, but you can look into the Surefire diffusers as they were originally intended for use with high output incandescent lamps. If it stands up to a P91 it probably should stand up to the IMR-9, at least for shorter runs. If it does melt, Surefire will likely replace it.

The only thing I use a diffuser on is a red KL1 head, but only because the beam is a bit ringy otherwise.


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## mdocod (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

The SR-6 will blow instantly on a pair of IMR16340s, use the ES-9 as a low output option...

Honestly though. You should pick up an SR-9 as a "standard" and "practical" option. In my testing, the SR-9 delivers about the same peak beam intensity as any of the higher output options (IMR-9/P91 etc). With these small reflectors, higher power bulbs results in wider beams and no more throw. With this in mind, for most practical applications the SR-9 is really decent and puts enough useful runtime on the table to get something done.

In my testing, the P91 and IMR-9, while different in total output, are similar in useful throw. 

If this is more of a toy, over-drive a high power bulb like a P91 or WA1111. The IMR-9 is a more laid back (in output and whiteness) option that is more practical for non-toy applications where bulb life is more important.

However, considering the small IMR16340 size cell in question, the bulb life issue is not going to be as big of a deal as even the P91 will last pretty long on those small cells (less bulb voltage due to sag).

-Eric


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## hoongern (Dec 4, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



mdocod said:


> The SR-6 will blow instantly on a pair of IMR16340s, use the ES-9 as a low output option...
> 
> Honestly though. You should pick up an SR-9 as a "standard" and "practical" option. In my testing, the SR-9 delivers about the same peak beam intensity as any of the higher output options (IMR-9/P91 etc). With these small reflectors, higher power bulbs results in wider beams and no more throw. With this in mind, for most practical applications the SR-9 is really decent and puts enough useful runtime on the table to get something done.
> 
> ...



Yup, I came to the conclusion that I needed the 9-series for no instaflashes. I'm actually interested in generally floody "wall-of-light" output, I don't care too much for throw - which was one of the reasons for getting the IMR-9. I find that on my nightly walks, my quark/pd30's hotspots could do with being larger. Although, I don't know how the IMR-9 would compare in 'floodiness'.

Btw - my decisions were based a lot on your behemoth tactical lego shootout - so I have to really thank you for doing that! 

I was considering P91, but getting the P91 over here is a bit of a pain or pricey, and because LumensFactory was very flexible in my order of their Seraph SP-6. (Which already comes with a LA, so the P91 would be an additional expense anyway)

Whatever the results, I'm still looking forward to the SP-6 host. 



ampdude said:


> I very much doubt you'll want the output from the D26 sized reflector any floodier outdoors, but you can look into the Surefire diffusers as they were originally intended for use with high output incandescent lamps. If it stands up to a P91 it probably should stand up to the IMR-9, at least for shorter runs. If it does melt, Surefire will likely replace it.
> 
> The only thing I use a diffuser on is a red KL1 head, but only because the beam is a bit ringy otherwise.



I'll just experiment around, maybe with some of the material from diffusers used on stage lights, which get pretty hot, and which I can find easily enough. I'd plan on using the diffusers indoors. I'm just not going to be able to find Surefire diffusers cheap round here.


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## hoongern (Dec 12, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

I finally got my SP-6/IMR-9 today! 

Loaded it up with 2 IMR cells, and... BAMMM! Wall of light! I must say - I'm very pleased with the huge floody beam - and the Seraph feels very solid. Of course, I cleaned and re-lubed it when I first got it - but it did come with some lube already on it.

The bezel does seem to block off some of the light, though, and gives the beam a weird shape at the edge of its spill. However it's awesome that the Seraph comes with an extra 'flat' bezel and the clicky switch - good package I must say.

It's daytime right now, but I can't wait to take it out later tonight to the field nearby where I walk every night - and test it out! 

For the price, I'm very happy with the purchase - the only thing is that after using it for 1-2 minutes, it takes 10 minutes to re-top up the batteries! But that's high-current discharge, I guess.. haha


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## hoongern (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Hi guys - 

So for the past 2 days, I took my SP-6/IMR-9 out for my walks at night in the field, and wow! I love the huge wall of light, and while I'm not a fan of the orange color (would prefer it whiter - but then again the IMR-9 isn't driven that hard esp on 16340s - so I guess that's what you get) - the high CRI was DEFINITELY noticeable against my cool white LEDs! Especially the branches/leafs and soil/grass.

(Now, I've never really liked warm LEDs, but the 100 CRI from incans is really something! And so is the heat from an incan! I errr, 'accidentally' put the bezel down on top of an annoying mosquito for just 1 or 2 seconds)

As this was merely my 'testing ground' to see how incans perform, I'm ready to step it up =) Short term, I'm thinking of running the IMR-9 with 1x18500s which will hopefully brighten it up a bit. Long term, I have some choices. I don't actually care too much about throw, but I'd want to get a bit more light out of this setup. (I say long term because I may not upgrade for a while yet, but just trying to do my research)

*FM D26->G4 bi-pin* with:
a. *CL1794*, when/if they become available again. I know these are on the bleeding edge, my question is - will they instaflash on the larger 2x18500 IMRs compared to 16340s? I see that they flash at 7.9V. (Edit: Found my answer here. Guess they do instaflash even with a soft start.)
b. *WA1111* - would this be more practical/long-term than the 1794?
c. *WA1185* - how would this perform with 3x16340s or 3x18500s? (With the hope that it would be even floodier than the IMR-9?)

Otherwise, my 'safe' choice would be to go with a D36 w/ IMR-13 and 3x18500s. Downside - larger head. Again, I don't care a huge amount about throw.

[This is no longer a little pocket rocket, of course]

One more query - I understand that these lamps perform properly when heated up. Is it bad to turn on the light for 1 second bursts (from cold) here and there - would it degrade the life of the bulb?

Thanks guys!


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## Linger (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



> Is it bad to turn on the light for 1 second bursts (from cold) here and there - would it degrade the life of the bulb?


Most stress occurs on start-up.
The tool to prolong bulb life is the 'soft-start' which ramps up power and allows the bulb to warm up to temperature instead of being pummeled with full current.
Bulbs will usually 'flash' and fail on start up. You can probably recall house lighting doing the same thing.
I doubt you'll find many stories where everything was fine with a bulb, the light running for a few minutes, when bulb fails with no external forces.

What was the question?


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## hoongern (Dec 13, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



Linger said:


> Most stress occurs on start-up.
> The tool to prolong bulb life is the 'soft-start' which ramps up power and allows the bulb to warm up to temperature instead of being pummeled with full current.
> Bulbs will usually 'flash' and fail on start up. You can probably recall house lighting doing the same thing.
> I doubt you'll find many stories where everything was fine with a bulb, the light running for a few minutes, when bulb fails with no external forces.
> ...



Yup, I gathered as much. I guess I'll have to learn not to just press it on/off in short bursts as I do a lot with my LEDs... at least not until I get a softstart! (though not for QUITE a while, probably)


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## bigchelis (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

I also have the IMR 9 lamp in my Solarforce L2 w/ 18650 extention. I was really happy expecting 500 lumens because I was getting around 2.4A at the tail with 2 IMR 18650 cells.

Sadly; the IMR 9 500 lumen lamp did the same OTF when MrGman tested it at his work lamb. He said bigC next time get the E0-9 since you get the same 270ish lumens at less total watts.

What is the current at the tail with your IMR 9 500 lumen drop-in?

Does anybody know the current of the E0-9 lamp?



Lumens Factor EO-9 Lamp___272__turn on peak______2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 Host 1 ext, AR Coated glass in BZL.


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## hoongern (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



bigchelis said:


> I also have the IMR 9 lamp in my Solarforce L2 w/ 18650 extention. I was really happy expecting 500 lumens because I was getting around 2.4A at the tail with 2 IMR 18650 cells.
> 
> Sadly; the IMR 9 500 lumen lamp did the same OTF when MrGman tested it at his work lamb. He said bigC next time get the E0-9 since you get the same 270ish lumens at less total watts.
> 
> ...



Actually, I'm at a bit of a loss what to make of all this data - I've seen these tests from MrGman, but I've also heard other reports that their IMR-9s are way brighter than their EO-9s, or way brighter than the Malkoff M60 (there were some beamshots). mdocod's beamshots also show it being a lot brighter than the EO-9.

From here:


> ... I'd estimate that my IMR-9 is *at least* ~1.5X the brightness of my EO-9...


I unfortunately can't measure the current because my [cheapo] DMM only measures up to 200mA, and my other meter isn't working properly =\ I'll see whether I can get it to work..


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## bigchelis (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



hoongern said:


> Actually, I'm at a bit of a loss what to make of all this data - I've seen these tests from MrGman, but I've also heard other reports that their IMR-9s are way brighter than their EO-9s, or way brighter than the Malkoff M60 (there were some beamshots). mdocod's beamshots also show it being a lot brighter than the EO-9.
> 
> From here:
> I unfortunately can't measure the current because my [cheapo] DMM only measures up to 200mA, and my other meter isn't working properly =\ I'll see whether I can get it to work..


 
I assure you it wasn't brighter. In fact, at our local night hike and BBQ meet here in San Jose, CA a member had the P91 with 2 cr123 cells and it blew my IMR 9 away in terms of overall brightness. MrGman took his IS Sphere to the BBQ and I put the same size cells to be fair and had him Re-test it in front of everyne and sure enough it wasn't anywhere near 400 lumens. Here are the BBQ meet readings.

MrGmans thread. Post #61
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/229135&page=2

*L.F. IMR 9,_________Surefire 6P____________2 IMR 16340,____270.7**__1 sec*

*SureFire P91,_______Leupold MX121,_______2 IMR 16340_____384.6**__1 sec*
** 
I am really hopping my current was too low and I had a bad lamp to justify why only 270 OTF lumens were obtained. The E-09 was is owned by MrGman and had a lot less current than my IMR 9, If I recall it was low 2A or high 1.8A at the tail.
** 
**


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## polkiuj (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*

Hey Hoogern!!

You got the IMR-9??

We gotta meet up to test against my P91 man!! Hehehehe!


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## hoongern (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Suggestion for incan pocket rocket - Perhaps SolarforceL2+LumensFactory IMR-9?*



polkiuj said:


> Hey Hoogern!!
> 
> You got the IMR-9??
> 
> We gotta meet up to test against my P91 man!! Hehehehe!



I'm sure the P91 @ 450+ lumens will really outshine the IMR-9 - EVEN if the IMR-9 was at its advertised 500 lumens! :duh2:

Anyway - I decided to be ridiculous and get the FM-D26 bi-pin adapter along with TL3 (when I want longer runtimes), WA1111s, along with some WA1185s for fun (I can run 3x16340s). 

EDIT: I think I just made a HUGEEE mistake? Looks like I got really really confused and thought the D26 socket fits WA1111s... (T2-1/4???) but it seems it only fits T1.5s, and these won't go in? (Anyway, I guess I can always make use of these bulbs later down the road..) Talk about doing too much research in a short period of time. Information overload. Oh well. Guess I'll have to build a Mag85 somewhere down the road then! And meanwhile wait for the CL1794s..

Man, I'm going to have to basically give up my next 2 LED lights for this! Bet you incan fans love to hear that, haha.. But I really see what you mean by 100 CRI!!

Ridiculous. Gonna have to stop visiting CPF/MP...


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## Dioni (Dec 15, 2009)

Welch Allyn's bulbs will only fit in FM G4 adapters


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## hoongern (Dec 16, 2009)

Yup, my mistake. I somehow thought that those bi-pin adapters were for G4s. Anyway, no matter, I can still make use of it  However, I wish those D26-G4s were still available. When my budget goes up again / in the future, I will probably just make a Mag85/Mag11, and I will use the D26/T1.5 for my TL-3 and 1794s. Btw, do the 1794s work fine with Li-Co 18650s? 

Oh well - live and learn from your mistakes  At least I won't mix up T1.5s, T2-1/4s etc again!


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## mudman cj (Dec 16, 2009)

I recall that the 1794 will instaflash off of fully charged LiCo cells, but this is not from experience. IIRC you will need to start it with no more than 4.1V OCV on the cells. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.


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## hoongern (Dec 16, 2009)

Dioni said:


> Welch Allyn's bulbs will only fit in FM G4 adapters



Money solves problems!

Just ordered the FM D26-G4 "Sunlight" which just became available again!

So now I'll be using IMR-9, TL3 'LOLA', WA1111s and WA1185s.

The CRI/Incan bug hit me. Plus I looove HUGE FLOOD.

After this... gonna have to stay away from here for a couple months at least..... My wallet is empty. hahaha. Gonna hold off on those 1794s..


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## Dioni (Dec 17, 2009)

hoongern said:


> Money solves problems!
> 
> Just ordered the FM D26-G4 "Sunlight" which just became available again!
> 
> ...


 
haha.. totally agreed. Money is not a problem, it's the solution! 

Nice purchase of sunlight adapter. Now you have a great host for awesome bulbs. Awesome in price and output, so your wallet will thank you later.

Congrats! :twothumbs


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## hoongern (Jan 12, 2010)

Hey guys,

I'm going to be using 2xIMR18500s with the WA1111. However, I also use the TL-3 lower output bulb for general outdoor usage / longer runtime - would the TL-3 flash on 18500s? I'm currently using it on hot-off-the-charger 2xIMR16340s. I can't seem to find any specifications for the TL-3 other than that it's normally used on 3x123s. 

Thanks!


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## fivemega (Jan 12, 2010)

hoongern said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm going to be using 2xIMR18500s with the WA1111. However, I also use the TL-3 lower output bulb for general outdoor usage / longer runtime - would the TL-3 flash on 18500s? I'm currently using it on hot-off-the-charger 2xIMR16340s. I can't seem to find any specifications for the TL-3 other than that it's normally used on 3x123s.
> 
> Thanks!



*Two IMR 18650 slightly overcharged then rested for a week and finally measured the voltage of 4.219 and 4.212 work fine with TL-3 bulb and pulls about 1.24 Amps. Beam color is pretty white and bright for it's size and current draw.
Next step is 1499 with 385 bulb lumens.*


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## hoongern (Feb 5, 2010)

Thanks for all your help, guys. I finally got all the things - although this turned out to be less of a pocket rocket than a small hotwire.. 

One final question I have - are the heat concerns to do with just the Li-ion cells, or also the module/body?

For example, I'm currently running the WA1111 w/ 2x18500s.

I was wondering if I could put a dummy CR123 between the module and the 1st battery to run without worrying about the cells heating up as fast.


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