# HB-1



## Flashanator (May 18, 2008)

Whats the deal with this light? Legit?
These pics are the hypderblitz mod, and one looks like its just been increased in brightness. 

this site looks pretty sus, they say it puts out 5600 lumens at 5700k 50w hid, theres no way at that colour temp right?


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## karlthev (May 18, 2008)

Looks legit but, *20* CR123s for 75 minutes runtime?? This in need of a rechargeable custom battery pac from LuxLuthor otherwise a need to get a second job to stay out of the dark!

Karl


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## LukeA (May 18, 2008)

It's legit. (thread)

The pics look like that becasue that light took part in the grand hi-power shootout which included the HyperBlitz and others.


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## BVH (May 18, 2008)

In comparing their website pics with the actual shootout pics on CPF's thread, it sure looks like they used the HyperBlitz and LarryK14 shots instead of their own shots?


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## Patriot (May 18, 2008)

I just sent Richard, at Group 5 Engineering an email making him aware of the HyperBlitz beamshots used on his website.


Let's see what the response is.


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## BVH (May 18, 2008)

Look at some of the bulloney on their website. They say their flashlight is the most powerful flashlight available! WOW, where's the line to pay 3K for one of these? It's no wonder they disappeared from CPF.

It looks like the commercially produced PH40 outguns their light based on the shootout. The commercially produced PH50 would further outgun their offerings.


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## LuxLuthor (May 18, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> *EDIT:*
> 
> 
> I just sent Richard, at Group 5 Engineering an email making him aware of the HyperBlitz beamshots used on his website.
> ...



Wait, you mean they posted beams from the Hyperblitz/Larry14K as mis-representations of their HID light? If so, that' beyond lame, and hard to believe it would be done intentionally. I thought you guys met them at that shootout and had some nice conversations, so wonder why this strange stuff going on? Didn't you get their contact informatin?


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## BVH (May 18, 2008)

It sure looks like it to me. Look at the brightness of the tank at the far end of the shots on their lights and on the LarryK and Blitz in the original thread. Compare it to their web shots. More noticeable is the amount of light in the foreground prior to the mound of soil that spilled over the curb on the left. It's not lite up in the orig group 5 shots in the original thread. It is very lite up on their web page just like the original thread LarryK and Blitz shots.

And most noticeable is that in their web shots, you can very easily see the blue beam of light on its way to the target. Interestingly, in the original thread shots of the HB
s, there is no blue beam on the HB1 and a beam just barely visible on the HB2. However, the angle of the beams relative to the ground are a little different. They were taking their own pics of all the lights so maybe it's their own pics of the LarryK and Blitz.

Open two windows on your PC and do a side by side comparison. It's pretty obvious.


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## lasercrazy (May 18, 2008)

Wow, what a load of BS. I can't wait to see what they have to say about this... :shakehead


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## Patriot (May 18, 2008)

The advertising picture claiming to be a beamshot of the HB1 at 400 yards, which is actually a picture of Mark's HyperBlitz at 327 yards.







A real picture of the HB1


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## BVH (May 18, 2008)

Yeah, I forgot about beam color. Their bulb is 5.7K which is clearly not the color of the light in the pic on their website.


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## LukeA (May 18, 2008)

I didn't know they were misrepresenting the Hyperblitz as their own. I thought that if they used shootout pics that those images would at the very least be of their own lights. Something other than that is despicable.


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## Mr Ted Bear (May 18, 2008)

First four are photo's I took, last two are from their website. If they make changes to their website, then it was an error. If they do not make changes then they are guilty of misrpresnting others product for their own


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## JetskiMark (May 18, 2008)

Those beam shots are definitely of the HyperBlitz and the LarryK14. Nothing else there illuminated the tree and the hillside as brightly.

You can click on their small pictures to view larger versions. One and two.

They had their own Canon 5D set up next to Mr. Ted Bears 5D.

Here are Mr. Ted Bear's pictures.

Here are mtbkndad's pictures.

I was there and I know that the previous pictures were labeled accurately.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


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## LuxLuthor (May 18, 2008)

Well let's leave them an "open door" that somehow they got the images mixed up when posted on their website. It's one thing to *say *they lit up across a highway in daylight as a creative interpretation. It's a whole other "situation" with legal consequences to knowingly use beamshots from the Blitz/Larry lights as their own. 

Didn't some of you that setup up the shot have their contact information beyond the email on their site? It might be a case of one person not knowing what another did with the shots.


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## Patriot (May 18, 2008)

Although neither of the HB series lights are rechargeable and we at CPF felt that the price was high, each light has some great beam attributes. The HB1 has a very Beast like beam, and the HB2 has some impressive throw. Too bad that they didn't use the actual beamshots on their website.

Hopefully I'll get an email response from them tomorrow.


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## Mr Ted Bear (May 19, 2008)

I have the owners cell phone

Will call tommorrow


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## XeRay (May 19, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> They say it puts out 5600 lumens at 5700k 50w hid, theres no way at that colour temp right?


 
You are correct, that is NOT possible (not even close) at that very high color temp.


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## Patriot (May 19, 2008)

Ok, Rich returned my email two times. The first time he told be that he'd look into it. A little while latter he sent another email with an explanation.


Rich stated that a gentleman named Jan took these two photos at the shoot-out with a Canon 5D and that he had only taken a couple of shots. Jan told Rich that the shots were only to do a comparison between the HB-1 and HB-2.

Rich said that he spoke by phone with one of the CPF moderators this morning about the same issue. But doesn't have a return phone number.

Without quoting word for word, Rich asked me to please let the CPFers know that he's not trying to mislead anyone. He siad if we still feel the photos are not as he has stated to let him know. 


Do you guys think it's at all possible that those pictures were of the HB1 and HB2? To me, the beam profile isn't similar at all with especially with the HB1 and the color temperature is way off too. I'm not quite sure how to respond to Rich now other than to tell him that I don't think those pictures of of his lights.......


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## JetskiMark (May 19, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> ....Do you guys think it's at all possible that those pictures were of the HB1 and HB2?....



Definitely not possible. With two other cameras documenting the beams, there is no question. The two impractical, stupid bright, massive side spill lumen monsters there that night were both hotwires.

I thought that Jan took pictures of most of the lights that night. I was not paying close attention to what he was shooting though.

Mr Ted Bear used a digital voice recorder after each shot to note the digital image number and which light it was. The other photographer was mtbkndad and he used a notepad to write down the digital image number with the corresponding light. I am confident that their photos represent the correct lights.

On the other hand, it is nice to have to have a new medium resolution beam shot of my toy.


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## Patriot (May 19, 2008)

Here is my take on this. Jan, was definitely using his own camera but it was very close to Ted Bear's camera and framed in a very similar method. Below is a gif showing Jan's HB1 picture and Ted Bear's Larry14K picture. Note the debris over on the curb line in each shot because it's important to note how closely TB and Jan's camera were placed and aimed.









Here is another gif of the HB1 taken by Jan, in rotation with Mr.Ted Bear's picture of the Ken5.








Now, these two images were the pictures that Ted Bear took of the HB1 and HB2 lights. Notice how the there is a clear spill edge and then darkness all the way behind that edge. Note that the debris seen easily in the above pictures is still there but it's hard to see because it's so dark.









Now, if Jan's camera and Ted Bear's camera were so close during the the Larry14K shot's that they captured nearly the same frame (with small differences) that means that Jan's camera should have captured the spill edge of the both Group5 lights just as Ted Bear's camera did. Instead that's not the case, Jans pictures have no defined spill edge characteristics that were so obvious in Jeff's shots.

I stand by my conclusion that Jan's camera captured images of the Larry and Blitz hot wires and that is what is posted on their website claiming to be beamshots of the Group5 lights. Keep in mind that the range was verified at 327 yards and Group5's website states that it's 400 yards! :tsk:


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## tonyny (May 19, 2008)

I'm new here but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...


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## BVH (May 19, 2008)

In my opinion, and there is no question in my mind, their web pics are of the Larryk and/or Blitz.


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## Patriot (May 19, 2008)

I emailed him back linking this thread and told him about our conclusion. I hope they use this opportunity to fix their web pics especially now since they've been made aware of the "mistake."


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## Patriot (May 19, 2008)

Rich at Group5 asked me to forward this email of his to the forum.


Copied and pasted from email per Rich's request.

*"Any of you guys who want to question me are welcome to do so. I'm not very competent with the computer but will do my best to respond to any questions. I never lie or exaggerate. I did not set up the site(I don't have the ability). I appreciate all you guys who give be the benefit of any doubts you have about this light. Regarding the lamps, they were purchased from Mark at AE light. He gave me the 5590 lumens at 5700K specs. One of the studios was looking at the light and were able somehow to confirm the temperature.*
* These lights were supposed to be something for me to do in retirement (maybe make a couple of bucks). I've built aircraft parts for most of my life and hoped to keep my hand in, a little. I'm not trying to make any enemies.*
* When I started this, the "beast" was my target to beat.*
* With my sales so far at zero, I have pretty much put these lights on the back burner. I haven't looked at the Forum in months.*
* I might try to make the meet this weekend. Paul, could you forward to the Forum? Thanks, Rich"*


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## BVH (May 19, 2008)

Looks as though he does not understand our claim by his email.


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## Patriot (May 19, 2008)

BVH said:


> Looks as though he does not understand our claim by his email.




I responded to the above email with another email explaining that the website pics are not representative of the Group5 lights. Sorry, I should have mentioned that. He hasn't responded to my latest email yet. 

It's sounds like Jan is the guy we needed to talk to but obviously we didn't have Jan's info or know that he was in charge of web posting. 

It's interesting that they haven't sold a single light. Actually that's kinda stinks. To bad they haven't found buyers for it yet.


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## Mr Ted Bear (May 20, 2008)

I spoke to Rich this morning. He will be taking care of the problem


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 6, 2008)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> I spoke to Rich this morning. *He will be taking care of the problem*



 :candle:  *In 2008?*


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## adamlau (Jun 6, 2008)

I do favor the beam of the HB-1 over that of The Beast. The HB-2 50W also throws more light downfield than the PH50  .


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 14, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> :candle:  *In 2008?*



Looks like they may get around to fixing the pictures in 2009. (I'm being optimistic).


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## windstrings (Aug 18, 2008)

The Chinese put out the prettiest girl and had her "lipsink" the song that was actually sang by another girl and saw nothing wrong with it having no concept of the term "deception" saying it was all about "image of the country" rather than a competition between souls.

With one side of our brain, we see the car commercials as they show their car winding around a mountain road at high speeds or their trucks banging through a creek bottom that was all computer generated and we think nothing of it because we "know" its all fake anyway, yet with the other side of our brain we are persuaded in the products ability to perform the task since we saw it with our own eyes though that same commercial.

In politics we hear of a scandal and flip our emotional switches to "negative" against the suspecting party, but then when they are exonerated we can't seem to flip our emotions back to the reality that they are good guys and ok.

In like manner, companies give little thought for reality, but rather focus on sheer image that sells through the emotional impact of imagery, fantasy and the story.

This forum is very serious about reality, yet most in the real world love deception and would rather hear and see what they want, because reality lacks the luster they seek.

Any salesman negates to mention the negatives yet boasts about the positives... is this deception too?

Sometimes the line between the truth and a lie becomes very vague when lies become a lifestyle.

I would think if a new light wants to advertise on this forum, it will have to be subject to the tedious scrutiny of credible tests through shootouts that have earned their place through hours of court sessions on this forum already.

The bottom line is, its 50 watts HID... the rest is window dressing... so decide how much you want to pay for window dressing?
Because 50 Watts HID is only going to do so much on a shootout... especially in a small reflector.


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## Patriot (Aug 19, 2008)

windstrings said:


> This forum is very serious about reality, yet most in the real world love deception and would rather hear and see what they want, because reality lacks the luster they seek.





There's definitely something to that windy! Humans are certainly strange at times. 





The HB Series of lights entered the market with some really laughable advertising so it wouldn't surprise me if the marketing team posted the wrong picture intentionally. When the Group 5 marketing team met CPF, Richard tamed them down and they became a little more realistic about some of their statements. In the end, the light was basically a complete flop, mostly because I don't think the market was researched properly. After much time was invested they realized they probably wouldn't sell any so now it's basically a dead project but with a website that still operates. Richard indicated to me through an email that he's not investing any further time into his line of lights. He stated that there were about 40 lights in various stages of build completion but it's all just sitting on shelves now. I'm not even sure if Richard is still communicating with the person who set up the site but he also shared with me that they hadn't sold a single unit to the public so obviously no one is benefiting from the picture misrepresentation. We are probably just beating a dead buffalo at this point folks.


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## DM51 (Aug 19, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> ... about 40 lights in various stages of build completion but it's all just sitting on shelves now...


Am I alone in thinking that at least something might be salvageable here?


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## windstrings (Aug 19, 2008)

Everybody's got a water buffalo.
Yours is fast, but mine is slow.
Oh, where do we get them, I don't know,
But everybody's got a water buffalooooooooooooooo! 

Sorry.. just thought I'd lighten things up a bit.....


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## windstrings (Aug 19, 2008)

IF they could tap the same market the Beast had tapped, they may have something.. but technology has grown so, I bet even they are having a hard time swimming in this market.
I think they are a little late to expect such a high dollar.

Why doesn't someone get "ahead" of the market instead of follow it?
Can't someone make a 400W HID thats portable?

The LED guys did it by combining bulbs under one reflector..... too much heat?


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## Patriot (Aug 19, 2008)

DM51 said:


> Am I alone in thinking that at least something might be salvageable here?




About 45 days before Shoot off IV, I inquired about arranging a group buy, thinking that he'd be eager to sell a few of those off to CPFers at cost plus a given percentage. Richard sounded excited at the time but it never went anywhere and he never emailed be back. I suspect if Richard was hurting to get rid of them I would have heard back. Maybe he's upside down so badly that it wouldn't help to sell them or maybe they're a tax write off...who knows?


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## DM51 (Aug 20, 2008)

ROFL windy! where did you get that hilarious poem?!?! Wrote it yourself? Lol, I can't help imagining you looking a bit like Marty in your avatar...

--------------

Paul, I see you already thought about those parts - thanks. It was worth a try.


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## dudemar (Aug 20, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Richard indicated to me through an email that he's not investing any further time into his line of lights. He stated that there were about 40 lights in various stages of build completion but it's all just sitting on shelves now. I'm not even sure if Richard is still communicating with the person who set up the site but he also shared with me that they hadn't sold a single unit to the public so obviously no one is benefiting from the picture misrepresentation. We are probably just beating a dead buffalo at this point folks.



I guess this brings into question the "Lifetime Warranty" as stated on the website?


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## windstrings (Aug 20, 2008)

> DM51;2598468]ROFL windy! where did you get that hilarious poem?!?! Wrote it yourself? Lol, I can't help imagining you looking a bit like Marty in your avatar...


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LOL!... I must confess... My grandkids like veggie tales too much and I get to hear it too much!


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## IcantC (Aug 21, 2008)

Interesting outcome. So I guess the rest came out on top in the end.

Not to bash the guy, but this is why I rather buy from an established place, when taking "lifetime" warranty into account.


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## Patriot (Aug 23, 2008)

dudemar said:


> I guess this brings into question the "Lifetime Warranty" as stated on the website?





If you can get over the personal hurdles such as size and batteries, I'm sure that you could acquire one. But like you stated, consider the warranty would most likely be a short term thing.


Do you have a Polarion? Sorry if I've forgotten.


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## dudemar (Aug 23, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Do you have a Polarion? Sorry if I've forgotten.



Not yet, but I'm looking into buying one...


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 23, 2008)

You can test their lifetime guarantee.


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## dudemar (Aug 23, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> You can test their lifetime guarantee.



Polarion's?


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## White_Shadow (Aug 24, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> light?




DAMN that is BRIGHT. i would love to have something like that, but if i spent 3k on a flashlight my wife would give me a 3k beating with it!!


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## Patriot (Aug 27, 2008)

dudemar said:


> Not yet, but I'm looking into buying one...




pm sent


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## JetskiMark (Mar 15, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Looks like they may get around to fixing the pictures in 2009. (I'm being optimistic).



Don't count on it. But we are only in the first quarter.

Group buy?


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## dudemar (Mar 15, 2009)

Wow a blast from the past! I completely forgot about these lights since buying a Polarion.

Yes, a GB would be sweet.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 15, 2009)

JetskiMark said:


> Don't count on it. But we are only in the first quarter.
> 
> Group buy?



Group buy? You'd have better luck arranging a group buy for Santa's reindeer. The next sign post in this saga is to see if they renew their domain name registration which expires in Sep 2009.

Note that registration links to [email protected], and if he inspires confidence in your hopes for a group buy, best of luck to ya.


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## dudemar (Mar 16, 2009)

I think he was half joking...


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## JetskiMark (Mar 16, 2009)

I was being sarcastic.


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## Patriot (Mar 16, 2009)

dudemar said:


> I think he was half joking...





Lux Luthor only fully jokes..


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