# Best protected 18650's for the price "with panasonic cells" ?



## SouthernSorrows (Apr 27, 2012)

sorry mods if this is in the wrong forum you don't have a "battery section" unless i totally overlooked it

all are protected on panasonic 3100mah cells at lowest prices i could find shipping included

Orbtronic $13.50
Eagletac $17.29
Callies Kustom $19.50
AW $23
Redilast $24


just wondering in general for the price if the bigger names are worth upto almost double the price for the same cell with a dif sticker on the battery.

lights to be used in if it matters: Eagletac g25C2 or Klarus XT11 "can't decide lol" , Sunwayman T20CS , Fenix p30D. I'm also eyeing the lumapower sidekick IV which looks pretty nice. i still have 19 duracel cr123a's 1550mah's left but rather than buy more I rather move to rechargeable batts


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 27, 2012)

as for a charger I'm going either Soshine Dual Charger , Xtar Wp2 Charger or at double the price maybe a Pila IBC charger everyone raves about


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## diesel79 (Apr 27, 2012)

Actually there is a forum on here dedicated to things such as this. Many threads about 18650 batteries and tests. Not sure where you got your battery pricing, seems a little high. The Callies are $15.95 and the AW and Redilast are typically 19.75 for the 3100 mah. Im not familiar with the other two you mentioned.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?9-Flashlight-Electronics-Batteries-Included


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 27, 2012)

that's pretty much prices i found + the usps shipping for 1 batt is what boost the price.. i saw that damn "batteries included and figured it was for listing lights that come with factory batteries in them lol"


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## Sintro (Apr 27, 2012)

If you go to Orbtronics website, they have the 3100 mah 18650 dual PCB and other protections, based on a Panasonic cell. It's only $12.99 each, free shipping, and I think it was from the u.s. too!


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 27, 2012)

have you tried orbtronic vs the other brands ? supposedly according to a few review/batt comparisons i found on this site callies kustoms are on par ifnot last slightly long than AW noooobody has orbtronic info


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 27, 2012)

13 sounds to good to be true. May be rejected cells, etc.

The rest comes down to 'packaging' like PCBs. Some, for example, use premium wires, making the final cell thinner.


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## Dubois (Apr 27, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> 13 sounds to good to be true. May be rejected cells, etc.


Bit harsh to dismiss cells simply on price, and to slur them as possibly rejected cells.

Certainly they are the cheapest Panasonic based 3100mAh on the market. I guess that once HKJ has reviewed them ( I predict a "very good" rating), these will become popular.

Think I'll buy some now.


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 27, 2012)

Dubois said:


> Bit harsh to dismiss cells simply on price, and to slur them as possibly rejected cells.
> 
> Certainly they are the cheapest Panasonic based 3100mAh on the market. I guess that once HKJ has reviewed them ( I predict a "very good" rating), these will become popular.
> 
> Think I'll buy some now.



I know wish somebody reviewed them lol. could be really good, could be really crap you never know now adays. $12.99 doesn't seem like too big a risk to try them out but if someone knew for sure XXX brand was worth 2x the price I would keep the $12


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 27, 2012)

sure we can all agree any fire brand batteries are pretty low end quality "trustfire, ultrafire etc."


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## Dubois (Apr 27, 2012)

Couldn't agree more, but none of the *fire brands are Panasonic. Xtar, and Intl Outdoor Panasonic 3100mAh cells should also, perhaps, be considered.


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## ChrisGarrett (Apr 27, 2012)

I bought two EagleTac 3100s off of an Ebay vendor last month for $20.39 delivered. I couldn't argue with the price and so far, so good.

Chris


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## 901-Memphis (Apr 27, 2012)

Intl - Outdoors $13.96 each free shipping same pcb as Redilast possibly 

I ordered two should have them within a 10 days from hong Kong


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## BobBarker (Apr 27, 2012)

DX also has protected panasonic cells (in clear wrapper) for $20.70/pair with free shipping (so $10.35 each)


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## hellokitty[hk] (Apr 27, 2012)

901-Memphis said:


> Intl - Outdoors $13.96 each free shipping same pcb as Redilast possibly
> 
> I ordered two should have them within a 10 days from hong Kong


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## Divine_Madcat (Apr 27, 2012)

Having just went through this quandary, i opted for 2 Eagletacs, and the Nitecore i4 charger (awesome charge btw). So far so good, and they have received good reviews from others here. Frankly, i would say to go with the cheapest "True" battery you can find, and call it a day.


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 27, 2012)

Divine_Madcat said:


> Having just went through this quandary, i opted for 2 Eagletacs, and the Nitecore i4 charger (awesome charge btw). So far so good, and they have received good reviews from others here. Frankly, i would say to go with the cheapest "True" battery you can find, and call it a day.



where's the cheapest place "shipped" for eagletacs?


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## Divine_Madcat (Apr 27, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> where's the cheapest place "shipped" for eagletacs?


For me, it was goinggear, having them at 14.99 w/ free shipping on orders over 50 (i needed a charger as well, so it was over that). Not sure who has the cheapest, non free shipping..


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## 901-Memphis (Apr 28, 2012)

Intl-Outdoors is free shipping on any number of cells, so you could order 1 or more and still get them $13.96 free shipping. Also they have the green wrapper non protected 3100 mah Panasonic cells only $9.94 if your into those.


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## tandem (Apr 28, 2012)

I'd like to see a thirteen buck Orbtronics opened up to reveal what is inside it. Until that happens, I regard that price as too good to be true. 

For that matter, open up a current Redilast, Callies Kustoms, EagleTac, Intl-Outdoors and a AW cell. Let's see where they they all differ and then make a judgement call.

Until that happens, and probably even after to be honest, I'm going to continue to buy AW cells.


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## 45/70 (Apr 28, 2012)

Just to point out, most "good" Panasonic 18650 cells (as well as all the other premium brand cells, LG, Sony, Samsung, etc.) go into laptop battery packs and such. These companies cater more to their multimillion $$ customers that purchase hundreds of thousands of cells per year, than those distributors that purchase a thousand cells per year.

Most of the cells Panasonic rejects for the making of laptop battery packs, end up being sold to Chinese wholesale distributors. Some of these cells are "better" than others, and in the end cost more. The crappier lots of cells, sell for less.

Also, the difference in performance between a "good" reject, and a "crappy" reject, may not become evident, until the cell is cycled 10-50 times. While the testing of "new" cells is invaluable, it doesn't tell the whole story. Some things to keep in mind.

Dave


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 28, 2012)

BTW lowest price i found on AW 18650 3100mahs is $17.98 each at RTDvapor.com with 3 added in cart the shipping is $2.10 shipping for first class mail or $5 for priority mail

so in comparison you could get say 2 eagletacs for $35 shipped at goinggear or 2 aw's for $38 at RTD pretty sure the extra $3 for the AW is a good deal


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## loquutis79 (Apr 28, 2012)

So what I have always wondered is what are the cells AW gets? Are they trully the top quality cells that Panasonic sells to the multimillion dollar customers or are they seconds? 
Does AW [or Callies, Redilast for that matter] buy and get directly from Panasonic? I don't know if anyone has mentioned that before, or if they know.

One thing that I know is that, for me at least, they charge up on my Pila differently than the el cheapo T****fire that came packaged with my Romisen last week. AW's=4.13V, T****fire=4.19V. I am waiting on the Eagletac coming with my Klarus TX2C as I am curious what that will be like.

I still believe in the old "if it sounds to good to be true....". 

You still really get what you pay for one way or the other.


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## space-cowboy (Apr 28, 2012)

I see many people judge those 18650 based on price. That's good, but not always the best way to go.

Check HKJ (best reviewer IMHO) test site. It seems that "cheapest" 3100mAh outperform AW batteries without any problem.

Now, the question is: who is actually using those "rejects" ?


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## Shadowww (Apr 28, 2012)

tandem said:


> I'd like to see a thirteen buck Orbtronics opened up to reveal what is inside it. *Until that happens, I regard that price as too good to be true.*


Or maybe AW's and RediLast's are just overpriced. 

Raw NCR18650A goes at $6 - $8 (depending on order quantity), so $13 is just a normal, competitive price.


SouthernSorrows said:


> so in comparison you could get say 2 eagletacs for $35 shipped at goinggear or 2 aw's for $38 at RTD pretty sure the extra $3 for the AW is a good deal


How "extra $3" is a good deal? Extra anything is not a good deal, until it has been *proven* that AW's have superior PCB to Eagletac's / superior build quality / superior something else.


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## zer0ne (Apr 28, 2012)

Quality cells duopoly command some premiums...as more players coming on stream with equal or acceptable quality, we can see some price competition.


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 28, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> Or maybe AW's and RediLast's are just overpriced.
> 
> Raw NCR18650A goes at $6 - $8 (depending on order quantity), so $13 is just a normal, competitive price.How "extra $3" is a good deal? Extra anything is not a good deal, until it has been *proven* that AW's have superior PCB to Eagletac's / superior build quality / superior something else.



well the way most users with flashaholic rating go on about how superior Aw's are I was figuring AW in the 18650 word is like duracel vs rayovac or even dollar store brand in the aa/aaa world... honestly though since they all use the same exact cell they are all probably using the same grade reject cells and some companies are just cheaper because they have not quite gotten to the my label is worth more than yours status. would you want a Samsung HDTV or a Sanyo ?

still though having no reviews on orbtronics anywhere that i could find I'd probably want eagletac or one of the others


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 28, 2012)

of course we could all just pm pester a request to HKJ to review the orbtronics :devil:


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## space-cowboy (Apr 28, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> Or maybe AW's and RediLast's are just overpriced.
> 
> Raw NCR18650A goes at $6 - $8 (depending on order quantity), so $13 is just a normal, competitive price.How "extra $3" is a good deal? Extra anything is not a good deal, until it has been *proven* that AW's have superior PCB to Eagletac's / superior build quality / superior something else.





It is good to see that some CPF members use rational, and independent thinking when it comes to this topic.

One small correction: AW gets those NCR 3100mAh cells for 4.99 USD so you guys make your own calculation what is overpriced, and what is real competitive "to get into this 18650 game" pricing.


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## Danielight (Apr 28, 2012)

For $12.99 with free same-day shipping, I'm tempted to be a CPF "guinea pig" and order an Orbtronic 18650 (Panasonic) 3100mAh Protected. From their website, they are located at:

Orbtronic
7780 49th Street North #150
Pinellas Park, FL 33781 

I did send a chat message to their CS, asking them essentially why their protected 18650s are so inexpensive ... will be interested to get their reply, and will probably at least wait to hear from them before I order anything.


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## Danielight (Apr 28, 2012)

Well, I received a prompt reply from Sal at Orbtronic to my questions about their 18650 3100 mAh protected cells. After that, I went ahead & ordered one for $12.99 (free s/h). Will keep you posted.


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## HKJ (Apr 28, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> of course we could all just pm pester a request to HKJ to review the orbtronics :devil:



You do not need to do that, Orbtronics has promised me some batteries to review.


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 28, 2012)

Danielight said:


> Well, I received a prompt reply from Sal at Orbitronic to my questions about their 18650 3100 mAh protected cells. After that, I went ahead & ordered one for $12.99 (free s/h). Will keep you posted.



awesome, taking one for the team :thumbsup:


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## Shadowww (Apr 28, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> well the way most users with flashaholic rating go on about how superior Aw's are I was figuring AW in the 18650 word is like duracel vs rayovac or even dollar store brand in the aa/aaa world... honestly though since they all use the same exact cell they are all probably using the same grade reject cells and some companies are just cheaper because they have not quite gotten to the my label is worth more than yours status. *would you want a Samsung HDTV or a Sanyo ?*
> 
> still though having no reviews on orbtronics anywhere that i could find I'd probably want eagletac or one of the others


Nah, that's wrong comparison.
It's more like - would you want a Vauxhall Astra at $20 000 or Opel Astra at $13 000 (same model, specs, etc - only different name)?


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 28, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> Nah, that's wrong comparison.
> It's more like - would you want a Vauxhall Astra at $20 000 or Opel Astra at $13 000 (same model, specs, etc - only different name)?



over here in usa we have a similar dilema it's called gmc and chevy. same thing different badges and names


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 28, 2012)

HKJ said:


> You do not need to do that, Orbtronics has promised me some batteries to review.


 orbtronics has been promising you batts since march when i did a search of your posts containing "orbtronic 3100" maybe they are scared of your reviews :-\


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## HKJ (Apr 28, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> orbtronics has been promising you batts since march when i did a search of your posts containing "orbtronic 3100" maybe they are scared of your reviews :-\



That is correct. He has recently explained that he wanted to include some other batteries and that was the reason for the delay.


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## Danielight (Apr 28, 2012)

Here's the first "installment" of my update regarding the order of an Orbtronic 18650 Panasonic protected (see my earlier posts): I received an e-mail confirmation within an hour of placing an order for one of their batteries, that the battery had been shipped! Estimated delivery (USPS, First Class): 1 - 3 days. I'm pretty sure they send these fully charged; will check it with my multimeter when I receive it. Again, I will keep you posted.


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 28, 2012)

Danielight said:


> Here's the first "installment" of my update regarding the order of an Orbitronic 18650 Panasonic protected (see my earlier posts): I received an e-mail confirmation within an hour of placing an order for one of their batteries, that the battery had been shipped! Estimated delivery (USPS, First Class): 1 - 3 days. I'm pretty sure they send these fully charged; will check it with my multimeter when I receive it. Again, I will keep you posted.



this is mainly why i usually buy from the private seller or small shops/businesses you get fast and better service. same day shipping on a Saturday is top notch.


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## Danielight (Apr 28, 2012)

HKJ said:


> You do not need to do that, Orbtronics has promised me some batteries to review.


Even though I went ahead and ordered an Orbtronic 18650 protected today, I'll still be interested to see your review of these batteries. I'm certainly no expert, but I'm guessing these Orbitronic batteries will perform similarly to the other Panasonic 18650s (e.g., AWs, EagleTacs).


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## nMotion96 (Apr 28, 2012)

DX has protected 3100 panasonic for $20.70 a pair.


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## zer0ne (Apr 29, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> well the way most users with flashaholic rating go on about how superior Aw's are I was figuring AW in the 18650 word is like duracel vs rayovac or even dollar store brand in the aa/aaa world... honestly though since they all use the same exact cell they are all probably using the same grade reject cells and some companies are just cheaper because they have not quite gotten to the my label is worth more than yours status. would you want a Samsung HDTV or a Sanyo ?
> 
> still though having no reviews on orbtronics anywhere that i could find I'd probably want eagletac or one of the others


Prior to the offerings from Eagletac, Redilast, Fenix and etc offering protected 18650, what other choice do we have besides those China made xxxxFire? I am not defending any sellers here but AW is the only one here selling protected cells back then and stand by his product.


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## Shadowww (Apr 29, 2012)

zer0ne said:


> Prior to the offerings from Eagletac, Redilast, Fenix and etc offering protected 18650, what other choice do we have besides those China made xxxxFire? I am not defending any sellers here but AW is the only one here selling protected cells back then and stand by his product.


You're talking about the past, right?
Even few years ago, Xtar were selling high quality protected cells in 1800mAh and 2200mAh versions, for example. AW never was 'the only one'.


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## zer0ne (Apr 29, 2012)

Shadowww said:


> You're talking about the past, right?
> Even few years ago, Xtar were selling high quality protected cells in 1800mAh and 2200mAh versions, for example. AW never was 'the only one'.


Maybe we can check who landed here first...AW or Xtar?

Edit: Xtar primary goal is to sell flashlight not cells.


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## space-cowboy (Apr 29, 2012)

zer0ne said:


> Maybe we can check who landed here first...AW or Xtar?
> 
> Edit: Xtar primary goal is to sell flashlight not cells.



Your arguments are just pointless.

Please let people buy , and use what they want to use. It is free choice, and tests are open for public. 
If you want to pay premium price for the same Panasonic cell that is your choice, and money.


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## tobrien (Apr 29, 2012)

45/70 said:


> Just to point out, most "good" Panasonic 18650 cells (as well as all the other premium brand cells, LG, Sony, Samsung, etc.) go into laptop battery packs and such. These companies cater more to their multimillion $$ customers that purchase hundreds of thousands of cells per year, than those distributors that purchase a thousand cells per year.
> 
> Most of the cells Panasonic rejects for the making of laptop battery packs, end up being sold to Chinese wholesale distributors. Some of these cells are "better" than others, and in the end cost more. The crappier lots of cells, sell for less.
> 
> ...


i'm not saying you're trolling, but can you cite any legitimate sources as proof of your statements?


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## tobrien (Apr 29, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> over here in usa we have a similar dilema it's called gmc and chevy. same thing different badges and names


so true. gotta include ford though

-- Georgia raised.


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## 45/70 (Apr 30, 2012)

tobrien said:


> i'm not saying you're trolling, but can you cite any legitimate sources as proof of your statements?



Trolling? I don't know where you got that idea, LOL! I'm simply sharing some common knowledge.

When dealers/distributors source cells form places such as those found on alibaba, where bulk, loose (individual) Li-Ion cells are offered for sale, they are purchasing cells from them, not Panasonic. The major Japanese and Korean Li-Ion manufacturers do not sell loose Li-Ion cells at a consumer level.

As to where these places get their cells from, who knows? As I said, some of them may be better than others. It's not uncommon for cells from these outfits to be several years old. Once I looked up a Sony 2200mAh cell on one of these sites, and the cells were dated from one of the major laptop battery pack recalls about 5 years ago. They also had obvious spot weld marks on both ends. The cells I had, were purchased by a member on LPF and came with a laser I purchased from him. I'm not sure where he got them, but they appeared to be the same general batch as those found on the Chinese wholesaler's site.

So, I'm not pointing my finger at anyone, but there are variations in quality and age, of cells that are not purchased directly from the cell maker. Some cells will be better, or newer than others, when purchased from a third party. The cost of better/newer cells is likely to be higher, and will be reflected in the price that these cells are offered, by those we buy our cells from. And that's all I said.

Dave


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## space-cowboy (Apr 30, 2012)

45/70 said:


> Trolling? I don't know where you got that idea, LOL! I'm simply sharing some common knowledge.
> 
> When dealers/distributors source cells form places such as those found on alibaba, where bulk, loose (individual) Li-Ion cells are offered for sale, they are purchasing cells from them, not Panasonic. The major Japanese and Korean Li-Ion manufacturers do not sell loose Li-Ion cells at a consumer level.
> 
> ...



Nobody (including AW, and other expensive vendors) is buying cells directly from Panasonic - if any vendor told you that - it is a complete lie.

NCR18650A Panasonic cells cannot be that old even if we want them to be - first single cells were available in the end of 2010, beginning of 2011. I am talking about Panasonic 3100mAh.


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## 45/70 (Apr 30, 2012)

space-cowboy said:


> Nobody (including AW, and other expensive vendors) is buying cells directly from Panasonic - if any vendor told you that - it is a complete lie.



I believe I stated that in my first post, and reiterated it in my last post. So, your point is?:thinking:



> NCR18650A Panasonic cells cannot be that old even if we want them to be - first single cells were available in the end of 2010, beginning of 2011. I am talking about Panasonic 3100mAh.



And, so......?

Dave


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## tobrien (Apr 30, 2012)

45/70 said:


> Trolling? I don't know where you got that idea, LOL! I'm simply sharing some common knowledge.
> 
> When dealers/distributors source cells form places such as those found on alibaba, where bulk, loose (individual) Li-Ion cells are offered for sale, they are purchasing cells from them, not Panasonic. The major Japanese and Korean Li-Ion manufacturers do not sell loose Li-Ion cells at a consumer level.
> 
> ...


i'm inclined to disagree. panasonic i'm sure has too much riding on cell quality. they don't want battery packs catching on fire a la Sony. i'm pretty sure any cell i bought that was a real panasonic is gonna be the *exact* same as one sold to Foxconn for assembling in packs, etc.

while it's a given that Panasonic and those guys don't sell directly to consumers, you still have yet to provide any sources for this 'common knowledge'

no need to stir up fear about li-ions if you can't back up what you're saying.

no hard feelings, man, but i don't believe what you're saying and until you provide legitimate proof, you should stop spreading that stuff


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## SouthernSorrows (Apr 30, 2012)

and yet we still haven't gotten around to the original question, which has the best beam for the buck value.... ****if**** they are all on the same exact cell... pretty much all these name brands are doing is taking the original panasonic cell, adding a protection circuit and a new label and wrapper. so shouldn't the $12.99 finished/protected battery be as good as the $25 battery.. is AW using some super high tech protection vs the others ?


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## tobrien (Apr 30, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> and yet we still haven't gotten around to the original question, which has the best beam for the buck value.... ****if**** they are all on the same exact cell... pretty much all these name brands are doing is taking the original panasonic cell, adding a protection circuit and a new label and wrapper. so shouldn't the $12.99 finished/protected battery be as good as the $25 battery.. is AW using some super high tech protection vs the others ?


AW has the luxury of brand reputation. go with either Redilast, Callies Kustoms, or Intl Outdoor or potentially Orbtronic depending on how those get analyzed and reviewed. 

the pannys at 3100 mAh should be fine even without protection so long as you don't screw it up and go below ~2.8v at the lowest.


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## Danielight (May 1, 2012)

I ordered my Orbtronic 18650 3100 mAh (Panasonic protected) on Saturday at 1:00 PM, and it arrived in the mail on Monday (Florida to Ohio!). I put it in my charger to top it off, then checked voltage when it was done ... 4.17v. For $12.99, I'd say this was an outstanding transaction. :thumbsup:


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## d337944 (May 1, 2012)

For non-US residents, International Outdoor's 18650 3100mah is the best value performer that I've tried! I've got 8 of them, rotating 4 at a time through my Nitecore Tm11. They work perfectly and reliably, and last as long as my AWs.

I've come across cheaper protected Panasonic 3100s at Focal Price (often used by Budget Light Forumers), but am not too sure about the quality of their protection circuit of wiring ... they use clear shrink wrapping (instead of all black "battery wraps") so you can see the original Panasonic cell underneath.

Cheers!


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## jasonck08 (May 1, 2012)

45/70 said:


> Just to point out, most "good" Panasonic 18650 cells (as well as all the other premium brand cells, LG, Sony, Samsung, etc.) go into laptop battery packs and such. These companies cater more to their multimillion $$ customers that purchase hundreds of thousands of cells per year, than those distributors that purchase a thousand cells per year.
> 
> Most of the cells Panasonic rejects for the making of laptop battery packs, end up being sold to Chinese wholesale distributors. Some of these cells are "better" than others, and in the end cost more. The crappier lots of cells, sell for less.


 


45/70 said:


> So, I'm not pointing my finger at anyone, but there are variations in quality and age, of cells that are not purchased directly from the cell maker. Some cells will be better, or newer than others, when purchased from a third party. The cost of better/newer cells is likely to be higher, and will be reflected in the price that these cells are offered, by those we buy our cells from. And that's all I said.


 
I know for a fact that one of the brands commonly talked about here on CPF (name will not be mentioned), does occasionally use laptop cell pulls. I believe these are usually new or like new pack pulls but are not quite as fresh as new cells.

I have personally tested a handful of brand new laptop cell pulls and a new fresh cells, and the laptop cell pulls had about 2-3% less capacity, but other than that they performed just about the same as the new fresh cells. One thing to keep in mind is that these cells ship from Panasonic at about 3.60v. So if you get some cells that are significantly higher or lower, you know something is up. Either the seller charged them up, or they may be laptop pack pulls. There is no reason for a distributor, or reseller to charge these up ahead of time, unless the buyer requests it. As we all know its best to store cells at a 30-50% SOC, so the ship voltage is just prefect.





45/70 said:


> As to where these places get their cells from, who knows? As I said, some of them may be better than others. It's not uncommon for cells from these outfits to be several years old. Once I looked up a Sony 2200mAh cell on one of these sites, and the cells were dated from one of the major laptop battery pack recalls about 5 years ago. They also had obvious spot weld marks on both ends. The cells I had, were purchased by a member on LPF and came with a laser I purchased from him. I'm not sure where he got them, but they appeared to be the same general batch as those found on the Chinese wholesaler's site.



The majority of the companies you see offering them on Alibaba and other trade websites generally get the cells either:

1) From a Japanese battery distributor
2) From a Chinese battery distributor that may have acquired them from a Japanese distributor, or directly from the company (e.g. Panasonic or Sanyo etc.)
3) Then there are the occasional grey market laptop pack pulls that are sold

Very few of these battery wholesalers buy directly from Panasonic as the lead times are very long, and the quantities they must purchase are very high 10-20K pcs+ minimums depending on the cell.


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## 45/70 (May 1, 2012)

tobrien said:


> while it's a given that Panasonic and those guys don't sell directly to consumers, you still have yet to provide any sources for this 'common knowledge'



Well tobrien, I honestly don't know where you're coming from with all this, but I guess I can reference your statement above, as one source. Most of these cells come from unknown sources with unknown history as to how old they are, how they have been stored, what conditions they've been subjected to, or how many hands they've passed though.



> no need to stir up fear about li-ions if you can't back up what you're saying.



This is the first I've heard of this, in this thread. I'm not sure who's striking fear into the hearts and minds of Li-Ion cell users, but it's certainly not me.



> no hard feelings, man, but i don't believe what you're saying and until you provide legitimate proof, you should stop spreading that stuff



Thanks, none here either. I still can't figure out what proof you're looking for, or exactly what "stuff" I'm "spreading". These cells come from unknown origin with an unknown storage history etc. and have passed though at least one middleman, possibly more, before they reach us. It's a bit difficult to say what happens to the cells, with so many unknowns. I imagine most sellers would be reluctant to release such information, if they even knew.

Again my main point is that some end distributors that we buy our cells from, may go to extra lengths to obtain the freshest and best cells. This likely would cost them a bit more. I suppose, but don't really know, that the best way to obtain cells would be to get an arraignment with an actual pack maker and purchase cells from them. This would ensure that the cells were fresh, from the same manufacturing lot, and probably hadn't been stored in a shipping container somewhere in the hot Sun for 6 months, or whatever.

SouthernSorrows, sorry to derail your thread. That certainly was not my intention. I just wanted to bring up a few things to consider. I suppose the best bang for the buck would be to check various reviews/tests that are available, and make your own decision based on what you find there. Also, I didn't vote. There are too many variables to guess, and I have not used all the cells mentioned.

For now, I'm done trolling and spreading around whatever it is I'm supposedly spreading around.:shrug:

Peace,

Dave


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## SouthernSorrows (May 1, 2012)

Danielight said:


> I ordered my Orbtronic 18650 3100 mAh (Panasonic protected) on Saturday at 1:00 PM, and it arrived in the mail on Monday (Florida to Ohio!). I put it in my charger to top it off, then checked voltage when it was done ... 4.17v. For $12.99, I'd say this was an outstanding transaction. :thumbsup:



awesome thanks mr guinea pig lol think I'll order a couple and maybe some eagletacs which can be had for a little bit more "14.99 shipped" and see if I can tell the dif in battery life in my lights. I'll test the overall battery life in my new toy http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/StealthCaliber/IMG_0935-1.jpg


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## Danielight (May 1, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> awesome thanks mr guinea pig lol think I'll order a couple and maybe some eagletacs which can be had for a little bit more "14.99 shipped" and see if I can tell the dif in battery life in my lights. I'll test the overall battery life in my new toy http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/StealthCaliber/IMG_0935-1.jpg


You're welcome, SouthernSorrows :laughing: . I'd be interested in seeing your comparison between the two, because my other Panasonic 18650 is an EagleTac.


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## zer0ne (May 3, 2012)

space-cowboy said:


> Your arguments are just pointless.
> 
> Please let people buy , and use what they want to use. It is free choice, and tests are open for public.
> If you want to pay premium price for the same Panasonic cell that is your choice, and money.


You are jumping to conclusion. I am not defending any particular seller here and please read properly. All I am trying to say before more players came on stream, most of the people here have not much choice beside AW ones.


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## SouthernSorrows (May 3, 2012)

didn't go all out for the Pila IBC charger just knabbed a Xtar WP2 II kit "with car and phone charger adapters" for $18.00 shipped on ebay priority mail


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## SouthernSorrows (May 3, 2012)

I still have an armageddon stockpile of duracel and panasonic cr123a's left to use aswell. the duracel ultra's were $1.45 each panasonics were 1.25 each at CFRlights when i got them a year ago now they are alot more expensive.


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## space-cowboy (May 17, 2012)

Orbtronic 3100mah 18650 review by HKJ is up:



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-of-Orbtronic-18650-3100mAh-(Black)&p=3944182





Test results as expected from Panasonic cells.


I hope this will calm down people who talk about some special super cells that only AW gets from Panasonic.


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## loquutis79 (May 27, 2012)

Well the only thing I can add is that I have 4 AW 18650 3100 batteries and now 4 Eagle Tac 18650 3100's and one other something or other fire brand. Two AW from a source here in the Toronto area of Canada and the other two from one of the big name on line stores in the USA. Two Eagle Tac from here in Canada and two from a different big name on line retailer in the USA. All charged via the famous Pila charger.

All the AW's only charge to 4.13 or 4.14V.

All the Eagle Tac, and the whatchamacallit fire brand charge to 4.18 to 4.19V

We can all make up our own minds on what is what, but I know what I will be buying from here on in.

Im just saying...


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## turbostreetracer (May 28, 2012)

I bought Panasonic 3100 MAH 18650 batteries from Orbtronic for $8.50 each.
I couldn't find a better price for those batteries.

Are they protected batteries?


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## turbostreetracer (May 28, 2012)

Oops,I just checked and they are protected,they however do not have a button top.


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## HKJ (May 28, 2012)

turbostreetracer said:


> Oops,I just checked and they are protected,they however do not have a button top.



That does not sound right. It is probably only the cell with its native protection, not with the added PCB protection.


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## turbostreetracer (May 28, 2012)

HKJ said:


> That does not sound right. It is probably only the cell with its native protection, not with the added PCB protection.



They may have two (???) forms of protection.
The first one is PCB which is the black markings near the positive terminal.
The second one (I'm guessing) is what appears to me as a wire strip (inside of the outer covering)that I can see that extends the entire length of the battery.


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## HKJ (May 28, 2012)

turbostreetracer said:


> They may have two (???) forms of protection.
> The first one is PCB which is the black markings near the positive terminal.
> The second one (I'm guessing) is what appears to me as a wire strip (inside of the outer covering)that I can see that extends the entire length of the battery.



If the strip is there it is a PCB protected battery, but that does not match with the price.
You can see the construction of a protected 18650 battery here.


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## turbostreetracer (May 28, 2012)

HKJ said:


> If the strip is there it is a PCB protected battery, but that does not match with the price.
> You can see the construction of a protected 18650 battery here.



Thanks for the link.
They tested the Panasonic 3100 MAH battery on Budget light forum and they tripped the PCB while testing the battery using their Olight SR51.
Can I post the link?


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## HKJ (May 28, 2012)

turbostreetracer said:


> They tested the Panasonic 3100 MAH battery on Budget light forum and they tripped the PCB while testing the battery using their Olight SR51.



That cannot be the over current The SR51 only uses about 3A and with the exception of the first Intl-outdoor batch of 18650 batteries, all other has a current limit that is much higher.
But the SR51 can drain batteries down to about 4 volt and because it uses two batteries in series it can easily trigger the under voltage protection.


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## ChrisGarrett (May 30, 2012)

turbostreetracer said:


> I bought Panasonic 3100 MAH 18650 batteries from Orbtronic for $8.50 each.
> I couldn't find a better price for those batteries.
> 
> Are they protected batteries?



I picked two green NCR18650A 3100s up from Orbtronics via Ebay and they were $18.99 delivered. They are unprotected and do have wide, but short button tops, however, while shorter than my two EagleTac 3100s, they fit fine in my ZL SC600 and Fenix PD32, FWIW.

Both charged up to 4.18-4.20v on my WP2 II. I'm only using them in lightly used single cell lights, so I'm not too worried about the lack of a PCB.

Chris


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## HighlanderNorth (May 30, 2012)

SouthernSorrows said:


> that's pretty much prices i found + the usps shipping for 1 batt is what boost the price.. i saw that damn "batteries included and figured it was for listing lights that come with factory batteries in them lol"




I just found the Eagletac 3100mah 18650's for $14.99 apiece the other day, and Orbtronics are now $15.99 for 3100mah 18650's.

I have bought both, but now that Orbtronics have shamelessly jacked their prices up 20% after a good review here, I will go back to Eagletacs the next time I need batts. I did just buy 4 Orbtronics 2900mah 18650's for $22.78 for the first 2, then $23.59 for the 2nd two.


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## ChrisGarrett (Jun 27, 2012)

Orbtronics is funny. Been tracking their stuff on their site and on Ebay and they fluctuate more than gold and silver.

I think they're watching the prices of all of these other new-comers, selling the same product, waking up each morning, licking their finger and seeing which way the wind is blowing.

Right now, it's 2 for $24.91 shipped, which is making me think that they're competitive with the NCR18650A unprotecteds I bought from them last month, for $18/pr. In the morning, they might be $27, lol.

Chris


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 28, 2012)

Closing this thread as it is looking like "where is the best price for Panasonic 3100mAh protected cells". Not really appropriate for CPF proper. It did not start out that way. 

Bill


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