# Anyone seen this AA/AAA La Crosse BC-900 Charger



## mapson (Dec 7, 2004)

Just saw it and thought it was interesting. Don't know much about chargers myself so I can't comment whether it's good or not.

*EDITED to included tested cells 2/1/05*

I did some testing over the weekend. I used the TEST function to test some of my various AA nimhs. 

Energizers (1850mah) cells, tested twice. 

1850-1: 2140, 2100. 
1850-2: 2020, 2090. 
1850-3: 2060, 2150. 
1850-4: 2030, 2050. 

Great results, all report above the spec'ed 1850mah! 

Maha 1700mah, tested 2-3 times. 

1700-1: 1365, 1328, 1292. 
1700-2: 1347, 1318, 1321. 
1700-3: 1380, 1297, 1243. 
1700-4: 1648, 1697, 1615. 
1700-5: 1390, 1407. 
1700-6: 1330, 1329. 
1700-7: 1302, 1356. 

Least used, oldest in my drawer, only one looks close to spec (1700d). 

Maha 1800mah, tested 2 to 4 times. 

1800-1: 1651, 1526, 1515. 
1800-2: 1630, 1678, 1485. 
1800-3: 1769, 1578, 1499, 1620. 
1800-4: 1845, 1652, 1735, 1881. 
1800-5: 1329, 1279, 1282. ---------(initial discharge-charge before the TEST showed 1746) 
1800-6: 1793, 1808, 1772. ----------(initial discharge-charge before the TEST showed 1990) 
1800-7: 1238, 1271. ----------------(initial discharge-charge before the TEST showed 1590) 
1800-8: 1175, 1069. ----------------(initial discharge-charge before the TEST showed 1285) 

Only two looks good to me (1800d & 1800f). 

Energizers are my main use batteries, the 1700 and 1800 are older variety with 1700s getting the least amount of use and most amount of shelf time. 

I'm really surprised to see my Energizers above "spec" and a little disappointed to see older ones achieving as low as 59% of the marketed specification, perhaps it's due to a combination of lack of recent use and heat from charging over the years. 

I'd like to buy some 2500s from Energizers to see if I hit higher numbers. For now, I think I'm through testing the charger. A definite keeper and eye opener. 

Edited 1/6/05: 

Ran eight Energizer AAA 750mah batteries through the TEST function. Results as follows. 

750-1: 588, 627, 627. 
750-2: 592, 626, 629. 
750-3: 673, 697, 697. 
750-4: 776, 791, 787. 
750-5: 689, 703, 664. 
750-6: 721, 780, 736. 
750-7: 619, 660, 645. 
750-8: 609, 649, 629. 

The first test are from partially used cells, drained from use but probably not completely dead. Not as good looking as the Energizer AA results. Again, these were 750mah cells, I wonder what these AAAs are rebadged from. 

Edited 1/15/05: 

Purchased 8 new Energizer 2500mahs last week from Walmart and ran them through several tests. See the results. 

2500-1: 1888, 2300, 2620. 
2500-2: 2030, 2330, 2830. 
2500-3: 2120, 2160, 2760. 
2500-4: 1842, 2250, 2800. 
2500-5: 1633, 2740. 
2500-6: 1542, 2830. 
2500-7: 1581, 2710. 
2500-8: 1569, 2800. 

On the first four, I tested an additional 3rd time since I was disappointed to see the low mahs compared to the 5th-8th batteries for the same number of tests. I am truly surprised at the 2500mahs of the Energizer/Sanyo batteries. Exceeds the marketed ratings, how pleasantly surprising it is to see that now a days. 

Is there any reason to buy other AA rechargeables? No, Energizer/Sanyo definitely is one of if not the best. 


With such a easy charger to operate, I hope others post their results of various branded batteries too.


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## Lurker (Dec 7, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Looks very cool, but with an MSRP of $80, It's a little out of my price range.


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## Wingerr (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Saw an ad for it in Popular Mechanics and posted a question about it before seeing this prior post about the same charger- so, let's continue on in this thread...

It's selling for about $58 shipped; a bit cheaper than $80, but I'd like to know if it really works as advertised. Maybe it'd be worth the $8 + return shipping for a 30 day trial to see if it does, since no one here has actually has one- yet..
Already have the Maha 777+ and the C-204F, but someone needs to find out if this thing's any good, might as well be me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'd like to see if it allows four separate independent operations to go on simultaneously, charging one cell at one rate, another in discharge/refresh, another in test mode, etc. I like being able to specify the charge rates too, nice selection. We'll see..


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## mapson (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I haven't found it for sale online when I posted. Don't know if the distribution has gotten better.


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## Wingerr (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

This is where I saw it for $50 + ship


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## mapson (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Nice link, it appears to ship with the following bonuses too.

Durable Nylon Carrying Case
4 'C' Cell Adapters
4 'D' Cell Adapters
4 'AA' recharagable batteries
4 'AAA' recharagable batteries


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## Wingerr (Dec 20, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I think those are standard issue bonuses though, seeing how they're listed on the manufacturer site as included also.
I'm on the verge of ordering one, so I'll let you know how well it works if I get it-
Not much information available on this mystery product even from LaCrosse; guess it's too new.


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## mapson (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Wingerr, looking forward to hear how it fairs if you order one. I saw that the "bonuses" aren't really bonuses too after I posted. LaCrosse website does not have another FAQ or manual up on the product yet.


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## Wingerr (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I've just received an operating manual on the charger from LaCrosse, and it looks to be very versatile; it apparently has the ability to program different modes and charge currents for each individual cell, and can display status on each one independently. One cell can be charged, another in discharge/capacity test mode, and another in refresh mode. Very interesting design with lots of bells and whistles,
I'll definitely have to check this out-


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## greenlight (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Looks good.
--------------------
Free E.T.


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## oldtimer (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Bump. This looks like one of the best chargers available for retail!


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## BVH (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Just ordered one. With shipping to CA, about $58.00. Hopefully, its everything its advertised to be.


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## stringj (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I just received mine from Innovative Home Products. It truly is versatile! It has already charged a couple of AA cells that most of my other chargers won’t charge (they have a high internal resistance which makes their charging voltage higher than normal). These cells will normally only charge in my Maha C401FS charger. They won’t charge in my Sony BCG-34HRMD, Energizer 15 Minute, Lenmar Mach 1, or Lightning Pack 4000N chargers. 

The maximum charging current for two cells in positions 1 and 4 is 1800 mA. You “must” read the manual or quick setup instructions to get the most from this charger. The above statement about the maximum charging current for two cells is an example. The cells must be in positions 1 and 4, not 1 and 2, or 2 and 3, etc. You can have the charger try to revive tired cells by cycling them until the charger senses the capacity isn’t increasing anymore. It also states that its thermal cutoff is activated if a cell reaches 127 degrees F (53 degrees C). If charging more than two cells as stated above, the maximum charging current is 1000 mA. When cycling cells, the discharge current is always .5 times the charging current (or the charging current is 2 times the discharge current).

You can have different events taking place in each cell position. There is no fan, so if you use a high charging current, the cells can get hot. Whatever you set the charging current to for the first inserted cell, that is the maximum current for the other cells unless you take out all the cells and start over. 

If some of this sounds convoluted, it is, but most highly capable chargers are more complicated than just “insert the cells” and go. The charging currents available are 200, 500, 700, 1000, 1500, and 1800 mA. The discharging currents are 100, 250, 350, and 500 mA. It will go into a trickle charging mode once a cell is full. The trickle charging current is dependent on the charging current for the full cell (a large charging current will have a larger trickle charging current). At 1000 mA charging current the trickle charge is 58 mA but it fluxuates. If you just insert a cell(s), it will automatically start charging it at 200 mA. You have 8 seconds to press a button to choose another charging rate or other function. Any press of any button restarts the 8-second timer. 

I apologize for this information seeming like me just rambling, it’s just more of a “stream of consciousness” thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jerry


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## Wingerr (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Guess you're the first kid on the block!
Sounds great; the features look very well thought out, mine's still on the way, but it looks like your experience with it is pretty favorable.
So can you confirm that you can set one cell to test, another to discharge, a third to refresh, and another for straight charging, all independent of one another? 
That would be a really big plus compared to anything else out there.

That refresh feature you mentioned is interesting; goes through multiple discharge and recharge cycles until it determines that no further gain in capacity can be had, then stops and leaves it fully charged. I like how you can set one bank to do this, but not tie up the charger while it's doing that, because it's liable to take a while.
Can't wait to give it a try .... Hope they ship orders out quickly- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Wingerr (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

By the way, the manual showed nothing about this- what's the transformer output and rating? Is it in a range where a car cord adapter might be used with it, or is it some higher voltage or AC output?


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## stringj (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I've only tried charging and the test mode at the same time. I have every reason to believe four separate functions can be carried out at once. The only caveat is the one about the first inserted cell's charge current is the maximum for the other cell positions regardless of the function being carried out in those other positions. I ordered mine on 12/18/2004 and it arrived today. This charger is going to "raise the bar" and for a shipped cost of $57.81, I don't know of any other charger in the same league. You do get all the "extras" mentioned which is even more of a bonus.

The power brick's output is 3 volts at 4 amps.

Jerry

P.S. By the way, thank you for the link. I had seen it in Popular Mechanics but they didn't have it in stock. I blindly ordered it from the link you provided and was willing to wait awhile and was pleasantly surprised when it arrived today.


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## Wingerr (Dec 24, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Glad the link helped- I haven't really found any other place selling it; even the La Crosse website's "where to buy" references only shows stores that sell their radio clock stuff.

My order went in on the 22nd, so that would normally mean I should get it on the 27th, except I'm spanning the holiday period, so I'd have to understand if the delivery guys are busy celebrating- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

3 volts at 4 amps? That's something I wouldn't have guessed, based on the Maha stuff I have. Then again, it would make sense, since they're all individual charging circuits for single cells rather than series connections. Also explains the restriction for the selection of the 1.8A rate for a maximum of two cells; that's using up a good portion of the total power input.

The first inserted cell charge current limit shouldn't be much of a problem since it's just a matter of remembering to stick the cell that you need the highest charge rate for, into the charger first.

What was the terminal voltage readout you generally saw on the display after it finishes? My Maha 204 tends to be on the high side with the cells coming out fairly warm/hot. Though it'll give you a good max capacity, I'd prefer it if the La Crosse terminates charge a bit sooner.
I like how you can display all the stats for each cell-

Just looking at the manual, I can't really think of any other feature they could add or change to make it better; seems like they thought of everything and then some. Only thing now is to try mine out when I get it and see if it works as well as I'm imagining it will.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## stringj (Dec 24, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

The cells I charged at 1000 mA came off charge around 1.46 volts. In another thread about the Energizer 15 Minute charger, I tested an individual 2100 mAh Energizer AA NiMH cell using that charger and discharging it at 500 mA. The same cell cycled on this charger shows a capacity of 2200 mAh. Again, the cells can get hot if charged at a high rate. I think you will be very pleased with this purchase.

Jerry


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## Wingerr (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Well, just got my charger, and I *AM* very pleased with the purchase- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Haven't gone through a full charge cycle yet, but so far, it looks very well thought out. It's a terrific feature that it has individual LCD readout displays for each cell showing the voltage e.g 1.42 volts, the current charge input in mAh from start of charge, the time elapsed. 
You can monitor it fully without having to mess around with separate meters, and get an complete picture of where it is in the charge cycle at a glance. 

I set one cell for refresh, another for test, and two others for straight charge, and it all appears to be going merrily along so far.

Barring something unexpected; this'll replace all my other AA/AAA chargers now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


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## mapson (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I ordered one too but it hasn't come yet. Does the website email you when they ship? I have the order confirmation email and thats' it.


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## mapson (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Nevermind, the doorbell just rung, UPS dropped off the charger just now. Time to test this new charger.


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## stringj (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

It is a great charger but I'll be keeping my other ones also. My house has become a NiMH AA and AAA charging haven. Bring your discharged cells here for charging and just tell me how you want them back; hot and quick or slow and cool. We aim to please. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jerry


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## PocketBeam (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Thanks for the detailed reviews Jerry and Wingerr. Very interesting charger. Makes me wonder what it doesn't do. Ah, Lithium ion. Otherwise it seems perfect.


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## freeze12 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Darn...After reading this I just now ordered one! With shipping the total is $55.90 (not bad)_ as it seems like a nice charger.
Those of You that already have this charger: is there a option to run the charger in the car (12V) ???
How long after ordering did You receive the charger??...Thanks!!! $$$$$$ SIGH $$$$$ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


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## stringj (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Mine took 5 days from ordering to receiving. It does not come with any means of powering it other than the AC adapter.

Jerry


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## freeze12 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*stringj said:*
Mine took 5 days from ordering to receiving. It does not come with any means of powering it other than the AC adapter.



Jerry 

[/ QUOTE ]

------------------------
Thanks for the info.


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## Wingerr (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

If you really had to operate it in the car, you could get a small power inverter to plug into your lighter socket-
That was one of the things I was wondering about also, but looking back at all the times I've actually used the 12V lighter socket to charge my batteries, I see it's exactly zero, so I guess it's not a big deal for me. I do have a small inverter, so I'm able to do it anyway- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The test mode of the supplied AAA batteries showed 663 mAh on both; pretty close to the 700mAh rating. It also accurately indicated a weak AA Nexcell that I put in there (I seem to have a lot of those..); it was still undergoing the refresh cycle after multiple tries.
So far it's working just as well as could be expected; nothing strange.

I'll still keep my other chargers, but the only time I'd use them is if this one has all four bays tied up, or if I'm charging other than AA/AAA's.


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## mapson (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

How's everyone enjoying their chargers?

I did some testing over the weekend. I used the TEST function to test some of my various AA nimhs.

*EDITED to move tested cell results to the first post in thread 2/1/05*


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Ok, now I'm confused as all hell. If that max charging rate is 1800 mA, what good is that doing for 2000 mA capacity cells?


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## nikon (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

nascar.....It's cumulative. The charger will keep charging at that rate until the capacity of the battery is met. Even a trickle charge of 50mA will fully charge a battery if you leave it in there long enough.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

OK, thanks.


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## Wingerr (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

That's a good idea, labeling the individual cells with a serial number of sorts. I've been doing a refresh charge on my cells, and after looking at the numbers, just batch them together again. It takes a long time to do the refresh process, because it'll continue going through the charge/discharge cycles until it determines there is no more gain to be had by further cycles. Takes a good long time especially if you choose a lower charge rate; I may as well record the results for reference.

I've been finding that all my Nexcells aren't doing too well; which may be due to age, or just that they're not too good to begin with. The charge does appear to be accurately determining the weak cells, because that's what I've been seeing while they're in actual use.

Charger's been perfect so far; no failed charges, no error indications, no cells blasted by excessive charge rates. Gets my vote for best AA/AAA charger- Haven't used my other chargers at all, even when I had batteries queued up for charging; I'd rather just wait to use this one.

I may take advantage of the free shipping they offer for repeat customers, to get me a spare charger, for a total of $49.95 shipped.


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## mapson (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Yep, the charger has been great so far, I have even seen several times during my long tests, in which the charger isolated different cells and stopped charging those cells because of heat. Finally, I am able to determine which cells to throw out due to them being weak. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


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## BVH (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Just got mine today and charged the 4 AA's that came with it. All four cells were at widely varing states of charge when i put them in. I charged at the 700 mah rate. One finished in 15 min, the last one at about 2 hr, 20 min. Put them in a 4 AA light to discharge them and the light lasted for all of about 15 minutes. Primary cells last at least two hours in this light. I remember reading that nmh cells need a few cycles to break in. Is this what I'm seeing with the 4 new cells? When placed in the charger a second time at 500 mah, they all are charging at the exact same rate based on the mAh display.


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## oldtimer (Jan 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Wow nice charger! Im going to get one for sure now!

Please lt us know on the results of the 2500mah cells. I've got quite a few new 2100s that I don't want to discard yet.


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## Wingerr (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*BVH said:*
Just got mine today and charged the 4 AA's that came with it. All four cells were at widely varing states of charge when i put them in. I charged at the 700 mah rate. One finished in 15 min, the last one at about 2 hr, 20 min. Put them in a 4 AA light to discharge them and the light lasted for all of about 15 minutes. Primary cells last at least two hours in this light. I remember reading that nmh cells need a few cycles to break in. Is this what I'm seeing with the 4 new cells? When placed in the charger a second time at 500 mah, they all are charging at the exact same rate based on the mAh display. 

[/ QUOTE ]
When you select the charge rate, it's mA rather than mAh, so the 700 you picked means it's charging at 700mA for whatever time it takes to charge up. The capacity is mAh, which is the amount of current being drawn from the cell x the time.
If you selected 500mA for the charge rate the second time, it means the charger will charge at a fixed value of 500mA, so you should expect to see the same number on all the cells, but they'll generally finish charging at different times, like you saw the first time.
15 min vs. 2 hrs seems like a pretty big difference, even if it hasn't gone through the preliminary charge/discharge cycles usually recommended. By primary cells, do you mean alkaline? The cells I got seemed to check out okay; don't recall the exact value, but they were in the ballpark of the rating.

You can try a test cycle to see what the charger shows as the capacity, or refresh, if you have the patience (could take days at low charge rate selections); see what it comes back with.


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## eluminator (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

BVH it's common for new cells to need to go through a few charge/discharge cycles. Whenever the voltage is low after charging, that's a good sign that they need the treatment.

When you use several cells in series it's particularly important. Otherwise the cell with the least charge can easily have it's voltage go to zero or lower and become damaged.


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## BVH (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Wingerr and iluminator, thanks for the helpful info! I'll give them 3 or 4 cycles and see what happens. I thought they may just be very cheap-low quality cells. I've purchase some Sanyo and Panasonic branded 2300 mAh as well so I've got lots to play with.


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## Wingerr (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Interesting thing about the charger I noticed; I put it on my Kill-A-Watt meter, and it shows only 4VA, 1 Watt draw, with two cells charging at 700mA, one at 500mA. The Kill-A-Watt may not be reading all that accurately at these low values, but the charger draw is low either way. The transformer brick is cool to the touch, as is the charger itself- the thing seems to be pretty efficient.
I'll see if I can get a reading with all four cells charging at full bore just to see what it maxes out at.

Update: With four cells charging at 700mA, 1.3V, my Kill-A-Watt shows 10W, 18VA draw from the transformer.


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## stringj (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

If you add up the charging currents you will get 1.9 amps. Multiply this times the 3 volts the brick is putting out and you get 5.7 watts (VA). It sounds like your "Kill-A-Watt meter" is more accurate than I would have thought for such a low VA reading.

Jerry


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## Wingerr (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

The 1.9 amps is into about 1.4 volts though, not 3 volts; so power into the batteries is about 2.7W. 
Didn't measure the current the brick is putting out, so I don't know the power it's putting out. The VA reading takes the power factor into account (and is different from watts if voltage is out of phase from the current). Accuracy of the measurement aside, it looks like it doesn't waste much power in heating losses, and it's the watts they charge for.


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## mapson (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I updated my post earlier in this thread with the testing of various cells to include some Energizer AAA 750mah cells.


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## Wingerr (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Have you tried the refresh function after doing a test cycle to see if it's able to bring up the capacity?


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## mapson (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Wingerr, no I haven't tried the refresh function, I'll pop two in and let it run overnight.


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## TrueBlue (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

UPS delivered my charger a couple of hours ago and I'm having a blast with it. This is a great find.

Right now I'm charging three GP AA 1800mAh cells and testing one AAA 750MAh cell. I'm testing an AAA brand called McNair. The McNair AAA cells were a good price but 10% of the cells has always given me trouble; leakage, popped tops and some cells didn't seem to be "putting out" what they were suppose to. If the charger tests and keeps track of the charging information I'll be able to single out what and how many cells are bad _if_ any cells are bad at all.

My thought- a charger like this could hurt some cell manufacturers. If we can isolate bad manufacturers of rechargeable cells from good manufacturers then guess which brands of cells we would buy. Yes, the good capacity cells!

_This charger is a great find!_


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## Wingerr (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I put two of the Lacrosse 2000mAh cells through a refresh charge cycle, and got 1964 and 1980 mAh values on them.
Couldn't expect too much better than that-
I'm also weeding out all my cells using the refresh function, putting a serial number of sorts on each cell, like mapson did, so I can track the numbers from the tests. It takes a long time to go through the cycle, so it's definitely good to have a system to save the results for future reference.

The only glitch, if it is one at all, is that when I put in new cells while some others are undergoing another mode of operation, I sometimes end up inadvertently changing the modes for the other banks. Most of the time I can change just the one I want to select, hitting the bank select button first, but once or twice, they all changed in unison, even though I thought I was being careful to select an individual one first. Could be it does that if I hold the mode button down too long; not really sure-
The other thing I found is that it's a bit difficult to extract cells from the middle, unless I catch the bottom edge of the battery rather than the top.
Otherwise, it's totally lived up to my expectations and then some.


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## TrueBlue (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I'm still playing with the charger and found out that you can have cells recharged at different current settings. For instance I have bay one charging an AA cell at 700mA, bay 2 is charging an AAA cell at 500mA, bay three is empty and reads 'null' and bay four has an AAA cell charging at 200mA.

All I did was put one cell at a time in the charger and set up the current charging individually. And the charger is counting how many mA in going into each cell correctly.


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## TrueBlue (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Here is some information I have reamed from using the charger. It is an example of what the charger is capable of doing. I’m impressed with the ability of this charger to give me the condition of cells.

Here are the mA capacity numbers I got testing AAA cells. I randomly chose three McNair cells that I’ve often thought of being “underpowered” but could never prove. And I grabbed one Energizer AAA to test another brand of AAA cells in the charger. The Energizer AAA cells have always been performers in my lights. All cells are 750mAh capacity.

At the end of the test the AlphaPower charger read:

Bay #1, McNair AAA, 662mA (88% of the rated 750mAH capacity)
Bay #2, McNair AAA, 661mA (88% of the rated 750mAH capacity)
Bay #3, McNair AAA, 608mA (81% of the rated 750mAH capacity)
Bay #4, Energizer AAA, 772mA (103% of the rated 750mAH capacity)


Initial conclusion:
The McNair cells are consistently below the stated capacity of 750mAh. Bay #3 is very below the stated capacity and would skew a light runtime test if the cell was randomly used. In fact if all the McNair cells were used in a run time test then the test would have its run time skewed because a light being tested would not have a full 750mAh of current to draw from. Using these three McNair cells a test would yield only 86% of a run time using 750mAh cells.

I now wonder if the McNair cells are manufacturer “cheats” by putting 750mAh labels on what acts like 650mA cells. I would have a valid argument with the company doing simple current capacity relabeling. The McNair cells are not performing at the stated capacity of 750mAh. What do you think?

On the other hand the one sample of the Energizer AAA cell goes beyond the 750mAh capacity. The Energizer would also skew a test if used randomly but the test does show the Energizer, at least this single cell, is be better then its rated capacity. The Energizer cell would be welcome in my light.

Conclusion:
I don’t think I’ll be buying anymore McNair AAA cells at Ebay.

It does take a while to test a set of cells. The charger must charge the cells to capacity at 200mAh then discharge the cell until cells are depleted. Then the charger charges the cells keep track of the current the charger puts into each cell until full capacity is reached. Since all cells are different in their state of charge, charging the cells at 200mAh to capacity, discharging the cells at 50mAh then recharging again at 200mAh, the charger could take a while to test all the cells. And the cells will end their test at different times. But the work is worth it. The charger gives a valid and repeatable test that can weed out bad or less capacity cells. The charger can also find shining star cells.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*haveblue said:*
It does take a while to test a set of cells. The charger must charge the cells to capacity at 200mAh then discharge the cell until cells are depleted. Then the charger charges the cells keep track of the current the charger puts into each cell until full capacity is reached. Since all cells are different in their state of charge, charging the cells at 200mAh to capacity, discharging the cells at 50mAh then recharging again at 200mAh, the charger could take a while to test all the cells. 

[/ QUOTE ]

It's supposed to discharge at half the charge rate; did you see 50mA or 100mA on the display when discharging?
Also, you might want to give the "refresh" mode a try, even though that takes much longer than the test mode you were using. In that mode, it does the shampoo, rinse, repeat over and over until it no longer sees any improvement in the capacity. That should give you the maximum capacity of the cell, where the test mode might not, if the batteries have been sitting unused for a while.
I'm putting all the cells through the refresh cycle and recording the indicated capacity, and matching up sets based on their numbers. Very useful to get them paired up properly; there wasn't really any easy way to do it before. Though my Maha 777+ has an analyzer function, it didn't give me the impression that it was very consistent, and it could do only one cell at a time, which would have taken forever. Also, this retains the reading until you remove the cell, unlike the way the Maha does it, displaying it only a short time before wiping it out on the recharge cycle.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I just gave the cells a dry run with no conditioning. I figured it would be more of a real world test on the cells to see how they lived their life.

And, yes, I did see that the cells were discharging at one half the charge rate. So slow but it did the job.

It is a very resourceful charger.


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Haveblue,

You have stumbled across one of the "dirty" little secrets of the battery industry.

There is no doubt in my mind that at SOME discharge rate, the McNair cells would demonstrate their 750 mAh capacity. I have seen some data sheets indicating that the capacity rating was derived from testing at 10 mA.

While this allows for some "competitive" numbers, it hardly relates to the cells ability to perform. Your results should match the specified capacity, if you use the same current draw the manufacturer used.

I believe to understand if a battery is well suited for the application, you need to test at the current draw you expect to see. I have been displaying test results at 500 mA and 1000 mA rates because that seems to be the demand placed on the batteries in the lights we are using.

For example, the Peak High Power 3 LED AAA draws about 350 mA from the battery. The 5 LED High Power AA draws about 500 mA. The 2 AA Mini Mag (stock) draws about 400 mA.

Some batteries seem to perform well even at higher discharge rates. Those are the ones I am looking for. I have some Supreme Power 9000 mAh D cells that have tested to 8750 mAh of capacity when drawing 4500 mA. 

This charger looks very interesting. It seem to have a lot of flexibility and capabilities. 

Is there a way to test your AAA's at a discharge rate of 500 mA without damaging the cells? 

It looks like you would have to charge at 1000 mA to get a discharge rate of 500 mA. I am not sure you would get a complete charge at that rate. 

Can you charge at 200 mA, then specify a 500 mA discharge rate?

I may have to pick up one of these...

Tom


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

When you place the battery into one of the charging bays, you select the charging current at that time, and the discharge current is always fixed at 1/2 the charge rate.
To charge at 200mA and discharge at 500, you'd need to make two operations out of it, resetting the current to whatever level you wanted on the second. Though the highest charge rate I've used is 700mA, the 1000mA rate should still give you a full charge; the concern might be more for the battery if it heats up too much at high rate charge.

Interesting you mentioned the Supreme Power; I have two 1000mAh nicads that I cycled through with the charger, and both tested almost exactly 1000 mAh. Rating is right on the nose with them.


----------



## stringj (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Another interesting test is to charge up a set of cells and let them sit for a week or so. Then charge them again and look at the differences in the amount of charge they each accept. I have a new set of Sony cells that after sitting for two weeks I recharged at the 200 mA rate. Two of the cells showed maybe 400 mAh to top off but the other two showed more like 1400 mAh to top off. I will began numbering all my cells and keeping records as the self-discharge characteristics are almost as important as the capacity itself.

Jerry


----------



## red_robby (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

just ordered one of these, shipping to Canada is $5.95 and is with fedex. 
that's a very fair shipping price, looks like some dealers are canadian friendly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif, good to see!


----------



## davidefromitaly (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

very nice charger

anyone know if it can run at 220v and if can charge ni-cd and ni-mh togeter?

and who can sell in italy?


----------



## red_robby (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

give them a call, it's toll free...
they do ship international, no problems.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I talked to La Crosse today. 
I am going to carry their line of chargers.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Quoting directly from the manual about Test mode.

*TEST MODE*
In the Test mode the rechargeable batteries will first be fully charged and then discharged to determine the capacities. Finally, the rechargeable batteries are charged up again and the capacity in (mAh) of (Ah) will be estimated and shown after the discharging ends.

By pressing the MODE key within 8 seconds after inserting the rechargeable batteries, the Test mode can be selected. (The mode key shall first be pressed and held for about 1 second to activate the mode change. The subsequent pressing of the mode key will toggle between the “Charge”, “Discharge”, “Test” and “Refresh” mode.)

*Note:*
After selecting the Test mode the user may select different charging currents in the Test mode by pressing the CURRENT key, within 8 seconds after the batteries are inserted. _The afterward-discharging current will be half of the selected charging current._



I don't see why the charger couldn't use 220 volts since the power is supplied with a wall wort transformer that has an output of 3 volt, 4A. The wall transformer is styled and color matched to the charger but it looks like it would be an off the shelf transformer replacement.

PS: The second batch of McNair 750mAh AAA cells didn't hold up too well in capacity either. They rated 77, 87 and 89% of their rated capacity.

The second Energizer 750mAh AAA cell, again, exceed its capacity holding 768mAh of current- 102% of the stated capacity.


----------



## red_robby (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

i wish i knew that, i would rather give you the business.
when do you think that will be ?


----------



## koala (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Wooohooo go JSB go! I was thinking of getting one, that's it I am second on the list after red_robby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.


----------



## stringj (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Please post when this happens as I'll buy another one.
Jerry


----------



## Erik Johnson (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I just got one these babies, and it is totally fine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif F-I-N-E fine!

The plug mentions input voltage of 100-240 volts. I live in 120 land, so I can't vouch for this working at 240.

So far I have been marking my cells with IDs and charging using the 'test' mode, recording my results in a spreadsheet. Eventually when I have more patience I will run cells through the 'refresh' mode to see what their true condition is.

This charger most certainly gets my vote.

Erik. (too bad I didn't know JSB was going to carry these)

Thanks Wingerr for the link...


----------



## Symmachus (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]

The plug mentions input voltage of 100-240 volts. I live in 120 land, so I can't vouch for this working at 240.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello,

I live in Germany and can confirm that it works fine with 230 volts.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

The only problem I have with the charger is...ahem...user error. Since the charger has individual circuits I have to remember to push the separate bay button to isolate the bay from the rest of the working bays. It has to be done _before_ before I change the mode switch. If I don't do that then I end up changing the mode for all the cell bays. That is not good when the other bays have been working hard to test cells and I want to charge a cell in one open bay.

_User error...grrr!_


----------



## Erik Johnson (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Haveblue, I think that after pressing a bin number, you can change modes without holding the mode button down for a second. This should prevent you from changing any other bins accidentally. I will have to check this once my current test is done.

Erik.

OK, I just confirmed that my statement is indeed true. To change the mode for all bays you MUST hold down the mode button for a full second. However, if you press a bin button such that its LCD blinks, then you don't need to hold down the mode button to switch modes for that bin. This means you are protected from accidentally changing other bins (by not holding down 'mode').


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I have been having nice conversations with these people. The person I have been talking to has been very nice. I have been educating them in the ways of CPF. He was impressed by CPFs passion over lights. I will let everyone know when the first order arrives.

EDIT:

I just got off the phone with them. 11:00am Friday. They are going to try and get my first shipment on the UPS truck today. When I get a tracking number I will post it.


----------



## greenlight (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

This looks like a quality product. I'd buy one.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I see what you mean Erik. Push the bin _then_ push the mode to go to the test cell (mode button) option. I don't know if it was written in the instruction but I find that I can change the current settings by pressing the individual bin button then the current (change) button and setting the current _before_ I set the mode button to set the test cell mode. I wasn't getting a change current reading if I pressed the bin then mode button _then_ pressing the current button. At least I didn't think so. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/duh2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Thanks Erik! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

I'm starting to like this charger more and more!


----------



## pokkuhlag (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

JSB: Me and my shitter friend wants to know if we get free bonus too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif?


----------



## eluminator (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

That charger sounds good. All it's lacking is a USB port so I can control it with my mouse and log the cell capacities on my disk.


----------



## Erik Johnson (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Haveblue, please re-try the current change after mode setting (not that it really matters, but it does work). Just remember that after you get that confirmation flash after 4 seconds of inactivity, the current can no longer be changed. Also, it may seem like the current change is not working because the first press changes it from 200 to 200 (yes no change). So you need to hit it twice to get to the next step of 500.

I have finally run all my cells through the 'test' mode at 500 current. Now I plan on running all cells through again at 200 refresh to asure all my batteries are all that they can be. This will take weeks to complete.

Erik.


----------



## vcal (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I'm having trouble using the link: www.innovativehomeproducts.com 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif 
-My browser freezes up and refuses to go there... (wanted to order, but maybe should wait).
BTW-A Google search shows that Amazon will also be selling this unit for $49.95. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

JonSBurly...
When do you think you'll have this charger?


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I expect them to arrive on Tuesday. I will know what my true costs are when the shipped hits me. I think I am going to sell them at 51.00 shipped. I might put them on my site letting people know that that they are not here yet. I can start at 52.00 and whoever gets them at that price is locked in on the price. Once I see total cost I can adjust from there. That should put me at a competitive price since I cover shipping charges. 

What was your price after shipping


----------



## red_robby (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

i know you didn't ask me but shipping to canada was $5.95(with FedEx)


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I was asking anyone that had a price after shipping. Thanks red.


----------



## newo (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*JonSidneyB said:*
What was your price after shipping? 

[/ QUOTE ]

To an address in FL, it broke out as follows:

Unit 49.95
S&H 7.86
Tax 4.05

Not sure why they charged tax, and in any event they charged too much - I'm in a 6% county, and they aren't supposed to tax services (i.e., shipping), but even if they did, it is still too high. I saw this on the order form, but wanted the charger and thought the hell with it and bought it anyway.

Ordered a couple of days before you put out that you were going to start selling these. Would have rather bought from you, and would have saved a few bucks too.

Put it up on your site so you don't lose more sales.


----------



## vcal (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*JonSidneyB said:*
I expect them to arrive on Tuesday. I will know what my true costs are when the shipped hits me. I think I am going to sell them at 51.00 shipped. That should put me at a competitive price since I cover shipping charges. 

What was your price after shipping 

[/ QUOTE ]
Well Jon, I guess haste makes a little waste..

Just 10 minutes ago or so, I finally was able to break into the site (using reload repeatedly!), and I was able to order successfully.

Delivered price for me is going to be $57.80.
-I did not see your last post until After I had ordered. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I thought my CCrane charger was good but it pales compared to the La Crosse. It has more than enough options and read outs to keep a person interested a long time. I'm learning a lot about my cells and who has cheating mA labels on them. Yup, I found two cheating companies. I know my lights are going to appreciate the charger because they will now be running on good cells and not some with lesser capacity.

This is one hot (not literally) charger. OK, it is a _cool_ charger.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

can someone tell me how much the package that you recieved weighs. I am trying to get an idea of my total costs.

Thanks
Jon


----------



## BVH (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Jon, I put everything that came with the charger back into the supplied nylon bag and weighed it. It weighs 1 lb, 1 oz. The pouch measures about 8.5" x 6.5 x 4". Add your box and popcorn weight and you've got it.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

thanks BVH. It looks like I will be able to beat the price that others are selling at after shipping.


----------



## rdshores (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

JonSidneyB...
Will yours include the bonus pack with the battery adapters and case?


----------



## Yukon_Jack (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I just ordered one of the BC900 chargers and two of the Maha C401FS chargers. They are close enough in price that I am now wondering if I perhaps should have just gotten three of the 900 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I needed multiple chargers because of the many batteries I'm using and different locations. Guess I got two of the Maha just because I know they are tried and true and have a lifetime guarantee. 

I will be most interested to hear from folks who have the 900 how they are holding up after a lot of use. As trick as they are, we do not yet know how they will hold up under hard use. One thing I'm certainly going to test is to see if each of the four charging station give me the same information on the same battery. Anyone had any problems yet?


----------



## mapson (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Yukon, my charger has been holding up pretty well. When it senses the battery getting too hot, it stops what it is programmed to do for that individual bay and continues once it has cooled off. I have had it happen several times.

Yes, I have switched the batteries to different bays to check how the results turn out. The results have been close to each other, do not expect the same number to come up again and again. Look at my earlier post to see the results on different batteries and my comments. 

No problems yet, certainly a charger that raises the bar. 
The only thing against it is that it does so much and requires the user to understand what he/she is doing, that it may not attract the type of user who just wants it fast and does not want to understand each function. I cannot wait to see new chargers coming out with these function and more in the future!

La Crosse has got a winner here.


----------



## mapson (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Updated my earlier post to include results from brand new Energizer 2500mah batteries. In short, amazing batteries.


----------



## Frenchyled (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Jon, no news about you, I see you're OK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
If this La crosse BC-900 accept 220 Volt AC and is delivered with European (French) power cord, I am in for one, please reserved one for me if it's the case /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif

Very intesting Charger indeed !!


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hi Frenchy, I will see what I can do.


----------



## N162E (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*mapson said:*
Updated my earlier post to include results from brand new Energizer 2500mah batteries. In short, amazing batteries. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I added rubber feet to mine. I had them around, you can purchase them at Radio shack. I did not use the the tiny aspirin sized ones instead, the larger ones. This raises the charger about 3/16 of an inch and stops it from sliding around on my desk.

I have tested 8 Energizer 2500 mah AAs. All have been well over their stated rating, from 2580-2710. These are all new cells with only a few cycles. Any increase in capacity will be a further bonus.

My Powerizer 2250s are coming in at about 2010-2110. This is a consistant predictable result. I bought these as a lot of 60. As cheap as they were, they are a good deal.

My Powerex 2200s (12) test from 2080 to 2210. These are about a year old and I found 2 that were under 1700 mah. The two low ones have been consistantly used together. I would suspect that their early demise was at my hands.

If I could add one thing to this charger it would be, to backlight the LCD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif

Order one NOW!! Before they become scarce. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif and you miss out.


----------



## Yukon_Jack (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Mapson (and others),

I'm seriously starting to regret my recent order of the two Maha C401FS chargers. Like I mentioned earlier, I could have simply got three of the BC900s instead. I guess I can always send the Maha chargers back and get a couple more of the 900s. If I'm going to have multiple chargers, do you think I'd be better off with all BC 900s? It wouldn't be a problem at all to make the change. Many thanks.


----------



## Symmachus (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*FrenchyLed said:*
Jon, no news about you, I see you're OK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
If this La crosse BC-900 accept 220 Volt AC and is delivered with European (French) power cord, I am in for one, please reserved one for me if it's the case /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif

Very intesting Charger indeed !! 

[/ QUOTE ]

You can buy the charger in Europe, for example here ore here. I got the charger from Conrad. The interesting thing was that the batteries and the travel-bag were labeled "La Crosse", while the box was labeled TechnoLine, and the charger itself was labeled "TechnoLine IC8800". You can get the charger also from several sources als the Technoline IC8800, then 4 AA batteries with 2300 mAh are included instead of the 4 AA 2000 mAh and the 4 AAA 700 mAh.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Yukon_Jack said:*If I'm going to have multiple chargers, do you think I'd be better off with all BC 900s?

[/ QUOTE ]

I only have the Maha 204 and the 777+ chargers, not the 401, so I can't compare with that, but I'd have to say you'd be better off with the BC-900's. I've been running mine absolutely nonstop since I got mine, and haven't had any problems yet.
Just the display capabilities alone is worth it, because you can see just what's going on with each cell. With the 401, you'd have to use a separate meter to monitor it, and even then you couldn't get the information this one provides.
It's just on a different level from the other chargers.
And yeah, it would be nice if it had backlighting, for those of us who like to live in the dark- Or, maybe a green LED to indicate completion of an operation on one of the banks, so you can see at a distance that it's done, and you can put in another cell. But that's just polishing the apple.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I am expecting these to arrive on 1-18-05. I have gone ahead and added these to my website.


----------



## Yukon_Jack (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Many thanks Wingerr. You don't happen to ride a Goldwing do you?

The reason I ordered the 401 is because of its ability to give a dependable deep and complete charge. Can you tell me if the 900 really gives a deep/complete charge other than what its showing? What I'm wondering is whether or not the figures displayed can be relied upon. I would imagine someone could independently do some testing to see if the readings are accurate. I'm not doubting that it is, just seems too good to be true.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Well, I've watched as it undergoes the discharge, and it terminates at precisely 0.95V, then starts the charge process, so it apparently does switches based on its digital reading. The charge terminates at full charge at the voltage range I expect, and though I haven't checked every time it completed charging, I haven't noticed the cells coming off hot like they do coming off my Maha 204. Should be better for the cells in the long term.
The digital readout is accurate according to my DMM, so it's as deep and complete as you can expect. The wide selection of charge rates is a very nice feature, from slow 200mA rate, easy on the battery, to a high rate charge if you're in a hurry. Haven't tried the max rate myself, so I can't really say anything about it. Maybe someone else has given it a try.

No Goldwing, sportbikes and street/trail only- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## davidefromitaly (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

is a bad idea to start a group buy? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I haven't seen any sources offering quantity discounts, so there wouldn't be any advantage to a group buy.
Only possibility may be for people who already ordered from Innovative; free shipping applies for repeat customers, so it would be 49.95 shipped. Better off just getting it from JS if he has it for $51 if you haven't already purchased one.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*pokkuhlag said:*
JSB: Me and my shitter friend wants to know if we get free bonus too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to wonder, is this a typo or does it have some other meaning?


----------



## wasBlinded (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Just ordered one from JS. Looking forward to using it. Of course, this may delay the eventual purchase of a Triton Peak charger.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I am not sure what it means either. Maybe he is asking about the items La Cross includes with the charger. The AA and AAA batteries, the case, the C and D adapters.

Thanks for the order Blinded.


----------



## Frenchyled (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Thanks Symmachus, but I don't speak a word of german /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

And I prefer to annoy Jon and to give him my money, it stays at least in the community /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## davidefromitaly (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

i see the charger on the jsburly site only now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

pm sent for shipping in italy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

For those who want to order from me rather than get them in thier own country, I will call the manufactuers and see what needs to be done and will let everyone know.

I really like flasholics from everywhere.


----------



## red_robby (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*JonSidneyB said:*

I really like flasholics from everywhere. 

[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## wptski (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I just ordered a La Crosse BC-900 from J.S. Burly's too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## stringj (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

JonSidneyB,
I just ordered one from you as I said I would. I wish you the best in carrying this charger as I believe it to be the best in a new class of chargers.

Jerry


----------



## oldtimer (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Too bad it charges so slow =/. I'm contemplating whether to get this or just a regular 15 minute charger. I have no need for all the additiaontl options. Can someone give me any advice?


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Oh, no, you got it wrong. The charger is a variable current charger. "Charging rechargeable battery in various current (200, 500, 700 or 1000 mA). The charging current can be set up to 1500 or 1800 mAh when two batteries are charged. Fast charging- 70 mins. to charge up 2000 mAh batteries."


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I had “lazy” Amondotech 2300mAh AA cells; the power storage from these cells was far from stellar in use. I put them away because they would not give me good results. I figured these lazy cells would be my experiment on the refresh option on the charger.

_Hey, the cell refresh option works on the La Crosse charger! My Amondotech cells are back in operation again._

Some numbers for you to chew on. First number is the bay, first capacity test, final capacity after the refresh mode and finally the percentage increase in capacity over the first test.

Bay 1, initial test- 1730 mAh > 1934 mAh, +12%
Bay 2, initial test- 1190 mAh > 2150 mAh, +81%
Bay 3, initial test- 606 mAh > 2190 mAh, +261%
Bay 4, initial test- 1200 mAh > 2170 mAh, +81%

While the cells have never come up to their stated capacity of 2300 mAh the cells last a lot longer and are useable. The manufacturer of the Amondotech cells might be stretching the capacity of their stated cells since the majority of the cells are about 2200 mAh capacity rather than the 2300 mAh capacity they are advertised at. And I’m sure that the one very lazy cell that had only 606 mAh capacity was shutting down the other cells early and that was causing the really lousy performance of the whole set of cells. The very lazy cell became the strongest cell of the bunch.

It takes a while for the La Crosse charger to use the refresh mode- the Amodotech cells took 21 hours to condition the cells and that was pushing the charge current at 1000 mAh per cell. The constant exercising of the cells, charge, discharge, charge and repeat again takes a lot of time. It was worthwhile because I now have another set of useable cells.

Now to find my lazy GP 1800 mAh AA cells for another conditioning test.

I’m finding more uses for the La Crosse charger every day.


----------



## vcal (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

haveblue;
Why don't you mark that lazy 630mAh cell, and check that one after an actual usage cycle?

If it passes that test, then this charger will improve things as much as when we got "smart charging" back in 1994. -Saitek, Maha, CCrane, et. al. 
The charger could well pay for itself in convenience, time saved, and cell cost.

Sounds like could be HUGE improvement.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

_Good idea!_ I'll make a notation on the cell- the lazy cell and see how it holds up in use.


----------



## newo (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I got one of these chargers a little while back. My experience tracks what everyone else is posting. I have found it to be so useful that I ordered a second one from JSB yesterday afternoon, now that he has them. Why? Two reasons - four bays are not enough for my requirements, and I wanted to speed the process of maximizing the capacity of my "user" cells, and rehabing some older ones.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

One thing to note is the difference in the mAh values displayed in the different modes on completion represent; the charge placed INTO the cell vs. the value during discharge testing.
In charge mode, it can only display charge into the cell, but seems to be the case for discharge mode also.
Test mode, as expected, gives you the representation of true capacity by telling you how long the battery maintains greater than 0.95V for current x time. 
It's the same for refresh mode, but I'm apparently not for discharge mode. 
To get a true capacity measurement using the charger, you really need to run either a test or a refresh cycle, otherwise the displayed capacity is just the charge put into the cell, not the real capacity. I would have liked to have the true capacity in the discharge mode as well; it would have been nice to be able to test cells that came off another charger, or have been sitting around for a while. As it's set up now, you'd have to just monitor it as it's going through the discharge cycle to get this information, because it'll get cleared as soon as it finishes the discharge cycle and starts charging back up again.  

The charge put into the cell doesn't necessarily translate into actual capacity in use, so the distinction is important.


----------



## oldtimer (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Does anyone have a link to the instrucions included with thist charger?


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Yup... PDF instructions are here.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I like this sentence from the manual:

_User shall stopping using the adaptor when there are any cracks or damages observed in the adaptor, and in case undesired smell comes out while applying the adaptor in certain kinds of electric device._ 

desired ok! undesired not ok!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## greenlight (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Wingerr, I think I understand what you're saying, but can you clarify? What exactly is the advantage to having this charger?


----------



## jeffb (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Ordered one from Jon today!

jeffb


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Do you mean about the sentence? 
I thought the way it was phrased was funny; obviously written out of town. They're just saying don't use the battery adaptors if they melt down and emitting smoke-

If you mean about the charger, the main advantages to me is the full display options to show you exactly what's going on without needing separate meters, the four independent banks that let you charge cells without concern for matching, and the ability to test and refresh cells. Etc, etc..


----------



## oldtimer (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Thank you.


----------



## vcal (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*haveblue said:*
Yup... PDF instructions are here. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Billy, could post just what the pdf file says about the nature of the charge methodology?:
Example: soft start, delta characteristics, amount of topoff or trickle charge current etc. 

I'm having trouble getting my Adobe translator to cooperate right now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

TIA


----------



## tippy (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Anyone else notice the bottom 3 buttons move around and don't feel real secured within the charger? Hope it's not only mine. 

Otherwise, this charger is very nice for the money.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Yeah, the buttons feel wobbly on mine too. There is probably miniature contact switches below the black buttons. The buttons work but could be made to feel better.


----------



## tippy (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

haveblue - Thanks for the reply.

Nice to know others are the same.


----------



## Yukon_Jack (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Got my BC900 and my two Maha C402SF today. I'm in the process of doing a charge/discharge/test on two Energizier 2500 and two Energizier 2300. Will be interesting to see how the results vary. All are brand new batteries.

The two C401SF chargers are also really nice at first test. Must admit that if the Maha's give a complete charge as all the review state they will - they are a no brainer compared to the BC-900. 

At first, I was sort of mad at myself for not just getting three BCs since the price is comparable; however, I think it will turn out in real life that I more often than not will just want to plop the batteries in a charger, get'em charged reliably, and be on my way. I can see where the BC will be fun to experiment with and perhaps review poor performing cells (although I think it will be more likely I'll simply toss them and upgrade as newer batteries become available.)

I can see where the BC will come in real handy for testing batteries - where the Mahas will be my mainstay when simple charging is all I'm interested in. I guess I could do all that with the BC, but I must admit I enjoyed watching from across the room the Maha individual cells go from red to green. Also, I see that the BC has a 1 year warranty and the Mahas have a "lifetime" warranty. Only time will tell if all the electronics and buttons on the BC will hold up under constant and rough treatment. Also, I still do not know if the BC will reliably give as deep as charge as the Mahas which they are noted to do.

I really like the BC so far and will have a lot of fun playing with the features. Do I need three of them? Time will tell - and then I will tell you. Tks.


----------



## wptski (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Yukon_Jack said:*
Got my BC900 and my two Maha C402SF today. I'm in the process of doing a charge/discharge/test on two Energizier 2500 and two Energizier 2300. Will be interesting to see how the results vary. All are brand new batteries.

The two C401SF chargers are also really nice at first test. Must admit that if the Maha's give a complete charge as all the review state they will - they are a no brainer compared to the BC-900. 

At first, I was sort of mad at myself for not just getting three BCs since the price is comparable; however, I think it will turn out in real life that I more often than not will just want to plop the batteries in a charger, get'em charged reliably, and be on my way. I can see where the BC will be fun to experiment with and perhaps review poor performing cells (although I think it will be more likely I'll simply toss them and upgrade as newer batteries become available.)

I can see where the BC will come in real handy for testing batteries - where the Mahas will be my mainstay when simple charging is all I'm interested in. I guess I could do all that with the BC, but I must admit I enjoyed watching from across the room the Maha individual cells go from red to green. Also, I see that the BC has a 1 year warranty and the Mahas have a "lifetime" warranty. Only time will tell if all the electronics and buttons on the BC will hold up under constant and rough treatment. Also, I still do not know if the BC will reliably give as deep as charge as the Mahas which they are noted to do.

I really like the BC so far and will have a lot of fun playing with the features. Do I need three of them? Time will tell - and then I will tell you. Tks. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never chedcked this but someone posted that the C401FS is the only MAHA that has a Lifetime Warrenty!

I have two C402W's which claim to salvage cells, so I had some problem cells. It did charge the cell, had a green light but left them ON to trickle charge. Noticed a flashing red light later, melted the wrapper and had to pry it out. I emailed MAHA asking about temperature protection, etc. Never got answer!


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I've had similar experiences with Maha when I contacted them about problems I had with the chargers. I never had a meltdown, but with the clip type Maha chargers I bought, the end of charge termination seems to be inconsistent, and not giving it a full charge in many cases. I asked them if there were something that could be adjusted, but they didn't seem to have much support, and it was past the warranty period, so they suggested buying a new model. 
Haven't heard of anyone with problems with the 401 though, so maybe it's trouble free enough for them to offer the lifetime warranty period.


----------



## UncleFester (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Has anyone made an adapter to charge C/D cells with an AA charger? Would the charger be able to condition cell with the capacity of C/D?


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

It turns out that I can't get European Wallwarts for this. I am willing to sell them to anyone but not sure how good of a deal it is if you have to get a walwart locally.

I think I should make the rest of my posts in the Dealers forum.

These should be arriving in several hands soon, like Thursday. This thread has almost become a review thread and I have been bad and sort of made it a dealers thread. Perhaps when people start getting them it might be time for a review thread.


----------



## greenlight (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

jsb, what does the above mean?


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Greenlight. Earlier in the thread two people asked about me shipping to Europe. I decided to try and get european wallwarts for these but they would not sell them to me.

I am more than happy to send them to europe but I won't have a wallwart for them. I only have the Wallwarts for NorthAmerica and Japan


----------



## flashlight (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*JonSidneyB said:*
Greenlight. Earlier in the thread two people asked about me shipping to Europe. I decided to try and get european wallwarts for these but they would not sell them to me.

I am more than happy to send them to europe but I won't have a wallwart for them. I only have the Wallwarts for NorthAmerica and Japan 

[/ QUOTE ]

But the power brick is still 100-240V right? All is needed is a powerplug multipin adapter then right?


----------



## Frenchyled (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

If it's a 110v/240V, it's not a problem because some of us have multipin powerplug adapter.

Could you confirm that Jon ?
Is the wallwarts separated by a mini plug from the charger ?


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

From the wall wort a mini plug atttaches to the back of the charger.


----------



## Erik Johnson (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Both the unit and the brick say: 100-240 volt. Also elsewhere in this thread someone from Germany confirmed that it worked for him. So, sounds good.

Erik.


----------



## davidefromitaly (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Jon don't worry, if the charger is 100-240v we can find the adapters in our countries /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


----------



## cue003 (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Will this charger work for Pila S and A batteries? 
What about R123 batteries (with some sort of adapter)? 
Anyone tried rechargable CR2? 

I would like to have a charger that can work for all the batteries I have. 

Thanks.

Curtis


----------



## newo (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Nope. AA and AAA NiCd and NiMH only.


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Curtis,

Check out the Triton.

Tom


----------



## 03lab (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I'm confused, the PDF from lacrossetechnology.fr states that the charger uses delta V detection, while conrad.de says it uses (superior) PVD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## cue003 (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Curtis,

Check out the Triton.

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the info Silver. Are you referring the Triton DC Charger? If so, where do I put the batteries? sorry for the stupid question, but it appears as if I will have to build battery holders or trays or something for the various battery types I will potentially use.

thanks

Curtis


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Curtis,

That is correct.

You were looking for a charger that did it all, it just happens that the Triton does all types of batteries (NiCd, NiMh, Li-Ion, Li-Poly, and Lead Acid) and is well thought of as a very capable charger.

It does require a separate power supply, and you need to figure out a way to connect the batteries to it. However, once you have all of that figured out, you are good to go.

I wish it was a bit more convenient, but once you get set up, you are set.

Tom


----------



## koala (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Curtis,

To further more confuse you check out Duratrax IntelliPeak ICE. I've a both Triton and ICE but you can tell which one I like more /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. They both are same price rrp but you can get the Triton for less elsewhere. Hobbico, Inc. makes both of them.

To charge you use the supplied(ICE only) banana jack with ally clips to make connection to your batteries. The banana jack is on the right side of both charger.

This LaCrosse charger functionality beats the h out of my Maha 401, I would love to see how the charger perform in terms of fueling up batteries. Anyone did a test on the chargers yet?

-vince


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 20, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Vince,

I am working on it as we speak...

Tom


----------



## Yukon_Jack (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Well, I've played with the BC-900 all week. I've also been playing with the Maha C401SF and the 15 Energizer. They are side by side and being used at the same time.

The BC is nifty. I like the features; however, I do not like the button design or application. There has got to be a better and more positive button/selection method instead of having 8 or 4 seconds to this/that. It simply is not a particulary user friendly device. I like it, but it will be interesting to see how long the button and electronics continue to work. I see the best feature being able to test a suspect battery and then try and revive it - if you have the time and inclination. I don't see it as my mainstay charging unit.

When I just want to load batteries and charge them, I go for the quick and simple Maha C401SF and I "really" like the lifetime warranty - almost unheard of in a small electrical device. The 15 minute Energizer comes in handy when you just want to give something a quick charge as fast as possible and get back to business, particulary good in the car where you may not have a lot of already charged batterys laying around.


----------



## mapson (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I have noticed the DISCHARGE function almost always result in higher mah readings than the TEST and REFRESH functions. With the TEST and REFRESH functions, the mahs are more closely within a range.

I do not have a problem with the buttons, after a bit of use, I have it down without skipping a beat. Put in the battery, select the bay, select the mode, wait for blinking to stop, select the bay again, select the current, done. I have not had it "lose" memory of what the other bays are doing, set up incorrectly, etc.

I can now see this being my primary charger and my Energizer 30min one being the quick emergency charger.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Don't forget the discharge and charge mode displays the charge INTO the cell, not the charge determined by the drain down of the cell. You have to use either the discharge refresh or the test mode to get that figure, which is more representative of the true capacity.
Just because it puts 2000mAh into the cell doesn't mean you'll get it back on discharge, that only happens in Utopia. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif In the real world you'll lose some from losses due to internal resistance, etc.


----------



## Symmachus (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*03lab said:*
I'm confused, the PDF from lacrossetechnology.fr states that the charger uses delta V detection, while conrad.de says it uses (superior) PVD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

It uses the -deltaV detection. There is an error on the conrad website. Maybe they copied some Text from the description of the AT-1, AT-2 or AT-3(+) and forgot to make the necessary changes.


----------



## wptski (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I got my BC-900 today!

I got four MAHA PowerEx 2000mAh cells going in test mode. I notice all zeros but there isn't a mention of a cooldown in the cycle. After several minutes two started up and were discharging then one more discharging. The fourth one started but was still charging and after 5-10 minutes went into discharge also! So, it shut down because of high heat.

Two things here, I have it set to charge at 1000ma which isn't too high for 2000mAh cells. The cell that was last to finish charging was pretty warm. I looked at the time and the other three were 40 minutes into discharge and the one cell was only a couple of minutes. Meaning that the one cell is different from the other three.

So, without finishing the the test mode, I already learned something about the condition of these cells! Cool!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## wptski (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

As it turns out the one oddball cell from above was the highest reading cell at 1907mAh and the other three were, 1725, 1709 and 1687mAh.

Just wonder about the unit shutting off because of high heat when it says that it's usually caused by setting the current level too high. A 1000ma setting isn't too high for a 2000mAh cell.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Using this charger I've found out lots of "oddball" cells are the strongest cells.

MHO...maybe 1000mA isn't two high for the cell but it could be too much for the charger. Charging four cells at 1000mA is 4000mA plus the power to run the electronics. That is over 4 Amps of power the cells are sucking in and a lot of work for a little charger. The charger might have to "take a break" then continue when it cools down. And if I read the instructions right, the charger has a heat sensor near the top of the positive charging post. If the cell has too much resistance or whatever and the charger senses the heat and trips some kind of circuit breaker. When the cell cools the charger starts doing its thing, charging, but it remembers where it left off.


----------



## wptski (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*haveblue said:*
Using this charger I've found out lots of "oddball" cells are the strongest cells.

MHO...maybe 1000mA isn't two high for the cell but it could be too much for the charger. Charging four cells at 1000mA is 4000mA plus the power to run the electronics. That is over 4 Amps of power the cells are sucking in and a lot of work for a little charger. The charger might have to "take a break" then continue when it cools down. And if I read the instructions right, the charger has a heat sensor near the top of the positive charging post. If the cell has too much resistance or whatever and the charger senses the heat and trips some kind of circuit breaker. When the cell cools the charger starts doing its thing, charging, but it remembers where it left off. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, you are probably right. It is a nice charger. I've got one of the cells on a CBA to see how the capacity compares. Another 1450mAh cells read 1092mAh input and checked 930mAh on the CBA but that wasn't a Test Mode result.

I'll leave the charger testing to SilverFox's forthcoming "Charger ShootOut"! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


----------



## LitFuse (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Is the wallwart on this unit a big heavy brick? 

Consumer Reports (Jan. '05) states that as of 1/1/05 the EPA has expanded it's "Energy Star" program to include external power supplies. Apparently the tide is turning and these monstrosities will switch from linear to switching circuitry and will get much smaller, lighter, and more efficient. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Does anyone know if the "wart" for the BC-900 is a switcher? It looks kinda big in the few photos that I've seen...

Peter


----------



## JonSidneyB (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I think the wallwart on these are rather small. What do the people who have these think? They are not the smallest I have seen but pretty close to it I think.


----------



## LitFuse (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

That sounds promising... Small and light= switching supply. A switcher will also run much cooler. 

For you guys that also have a MAHA 401, how does the brick compare? My 401 brick is 424g and 2"W x 2 7/8H x 2"D (approx). Since the BC-900 is similar current wise, the brick is probably also similar in weight and size, unless it's a switching PS. 

Peter


----------



## wptski (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*LitFuse said:*
Is the wallwart on this unit a big heavy brick? 

Consumer Reports (Jan. '05) states that as of 1/1/05 the EPA has expanded it's "Energy Star" program to include external power supplies. Apparently the tide is turning and these monstrosities will switch from linear to switching circuitry and will get much smaller, lighter, and more efficient. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Does anyone know if the "wart" for the BC-900 is a switcher? It looks kinda big in the few photos that I've seen...

Peter 

[/ QUOTE ]
It's very small with a heavy than normal cord I'd say. I had one for a DSL modem that I had to put on a strip on the floor because it kept on falling out of the wall socket because it was so big!


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

My Maha 204 power supply is 8.8 oz and the BC-900 is 6.8 oz. The BC-900 PS is 2 oz. lighter. The BC-900 PS does feel lighter.

Here is a question. On cold power-up the charger tells on the LCD display what version number it is. Mine reads "32". Are there any other versions out there?


----------



## wptski (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*haveblue said:*
My Maha 204 power supply is 8.8 oz and the BC-900 is 6.8 oz. The BC-900 PS is 2 oz. lighter. The BC-900 PS does feel lighter.

Here is a question. On cold power-up the charger tells on the LCD display what version number it is. Mine reads "32". Are there any other versions out there? 

[/ QUOTE ]
Version 32 here also!

On the cell that showed 1687mAh in Test Mode read 1440mAh on the CBA using .9V cutoff voltage. Don't know what the BC-900 uses, I guess that you'd have to watch it or monitor it with a DMM.


----------



## Erik Johnson (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

To accurately compare mAh drain tests between two different chargers, you need to use the same draining current level. I noticed that for some batteries, a 500/250 charge/discharge produced higher results than a 200/100 run. Some batteries will be more efficient at a one rate or another.


----------



## wptski (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Erik Johnson said:*
To accurately compare mAh drain tests between two different chargers, you need to use the same draining current level. I noticed that for some batteries, a 500/250 charge/discharge produced higher results than a 200/100 run. Some batteries will be more efficient at a one rate or another. 

[/ QUOTE ]
What about LVC? Some say .8V, .9V or 1.0V!


----------



## mapson (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*haveblue said:*
My Maha 204 power supply is 8.8 oz and the BC-900 is 6.8 oz. The BC-900 PS is 2 oz. lighter. The BC-900 PS does feel lighter.

Here is a question. On cold power-up the charger tells on the LCD display what version number it is. Mine reads "32". Are there any other versions out there? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Version 32 on mine as well. Rough dimensions on the "wallwart" power supply is 1.25" x 1.875" x 3.625".


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

You could probably test a single cell ten times and get a different reading each time. I wouldn't expect cells to read exactly the same each time. Ambient temperature, cell temperature, a long hard run on the cell and maybe even a couple of drops on the floor could make a difference in the mA capacity reading from the charger.

But the charger will indicate a condition of the cell. You can find a "lazy cell"; a cell that is less performing. Or on the other end you might find a "shining star" cell; the overachiever.

I use the charger to pair up cells for lights. If I used a lazy cell with a good cell I would have actual light time that would be terrible because the lazy cell would quit first. And the lazy cell would have a good chance of draining too far to recover by recharging. The lazy cell would have a good chance of reverse charging. The end result would be a dead cell real quick and I wouldn’t know why. With paired cells the cells would quit at the same time. No problems damaging the cells other than to drain a cell too far for it to recover.

I'm also going to use the charger to tell me what cells to use for a run time. For instance two cells from one company are rated at 700mA but perform at 600mA. That would not be good for a run time. If I didn’t use the charger capacity test mode I wouldn’t know I had underperforming 600mA cells that were labeled at 700mA.

On the other hand there are shining star cells. I have cells from a company that are rated at 750mA but put out 800mA. That is good mA capacity for using but not very good for testing a light. Again the charger told me one company sells “shining stars.”

But like the story of the three bears I found a company that is very consistent with mA ratings. The Nexcell is very close to the rated capacity of 800mA. Of the three cells I have handy the Nexcell 800mA capacity reads on the BC-900 test of 807, 796 and 809mA. That porridge is "just right" for a run time test. The Nexcell is the cells I will use for a run time test. The charger told me that.


----------



## 03lab (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Symmachus said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*03lab said:*
I'm confused, the PDF from lacrossetechnology.fr states that the charger uses delta V detection, while conrad.de says it uses (superior) PVD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

It uses the -deltaV detection. There is an error on the conrad website. Maybe they copied some Text from the description of the AT-1, AT-2 or AT-3(+) and forgot to make the necessary changes. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, good to know.


----------



## jeffb (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I purchased this charger and reveived, last week. (JS Burly).
Charged some Ni-mH AA's. 

Decided to "test" some new Nexcell 2100mAh's. These cells were, loaded in charger (no prior charge)as they came to me from Battery Station.

Put 4 in charger on "test" to discharge and then charge @ 200ma.

(2) cells are "Full" one at 390mAh, one at 421, one discharghing (11 hours later) (1) still charging and is at 659 mAh.

I was going to try some Energizer 2500mAh next, right out of the pckg, on test, maybe should charge them and then "test"?

Any opinions or ideas on the (4) Nexcell's?

Thanks!

jeffb


----------



## eluminator (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

New cells often need several charge/discharge cycles to get them up to capacity. You should see an abnormally low voltage on these after they are charged. Good cells show around 1.45 volts just after charging, at least on my charger. Cells that need cycling can show as little as 1.2 volts.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
It's very small with a heavy than normal cord I'd say. I had one for a DSL modem that I had to put on a strip on the floor because it kept on falling out of the wall socket because it was so big! 

[/ QUOTE ]
The cord's heavier to handle the higher current; 4A is higher than the usual outputs. Maha uses higher voltage at lower current to supply the same power.
The adaptor on the BC900 is somewhat largeish, but it's lightweight for sure, and runs very cool- all the attributes of a switching supply.


----------



## wptski (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
It's very small with a heavy than normal cord I'd say. I had one for a DSL modem that I had to put on a strip on the floor because it kept on falling out of the wall socket because it was so big! 

[/ QUOTE ]
The cord's heavier to handle the higher current; 4A is higher than the usual outputs. Maha uses higher voltage at lower current to supply the same power.
The adaptor on the BC900 is somewhat largeish, but it's lightweight for sure, and runs very cool- all the attributes of a switching supply. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Not always! The MH-C402W with built in power supply charges four cells at 1A and two cells at 2A.


----------



## tippy (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

jeffb - I also just tested 8 nexcell 2100's that I purchased from Batterystation a year or so ago. They tested from around 100mah up to around 1700mah with most under 1000. Now I know why my Surge has been working so poorly. I suppose part of the problem could be abuse on my part but they haven't been abused any more than other batteries I have. 

I also tested 3+ year old Rayovac 1600's that I still use in my digital camera and all 4 tested between 1605 and 1650. I also just tested 8 new Rayovac 1800's and they all tested from 1825 to 1900. My old Rayovac AAA's are also testing well. So bottom line is the Rayovacs seem to hold up very well and no more Nexcell's for me.

This charger sure is fun!


----------



## flashlight (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*cue003 said:*
Will this charger work for Pila S and A batteries? 
What about R123 batteries (with some sort of adapter)? 
Anyone tried rechargable CR2? 

I would like to have a charger that can work for all the batteries I have. 

Thanks.

Curtis 

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the Maha777PlusII also but you may need battery holders as well & it doesn't work for lead acid batteries only Nimh or Li-On.


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
Not always! The MH-C402W with built in power supply charges four cells at 1A and two cells at 2A. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we talking about the power supply current or the battery charge current? I was referring to the output from the transformer to the charger, not the battery charging current.


----------



## wptski (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
Not always! The MH-C402W with built in power supply charges four cells at 1A and two cells at 2A. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we talking about the power supply current or the battery charge current? I was referring to the output from the transformer to the charger, not the battery charging current. 

[/ QUOTE ]
My mistake, I didn't read! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif You are correct.


----------



## wptski (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Anybody that's interested the LVC on the BC-900 is .9V.


----------



## wptski (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Not that you couldn't do this with many other chargers, cycling cells! I had some very old Radio Shack 1200mAh cells.

I did a Test Mode on them and got 407, 269, 284 and 159mAh. I did a Refresh Mode on them and got 985, 889, 945 and 648mAh. I have no idea how times it cycled them but it's all hands-free automatic!


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Bill,

When you did the test, did you set the charge/discharge current?

Or did you just put the cells in and hit test?

Tom


----------



## wptski (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Bill,

When you did the test, did you set the charge/discharge current?

Or did you just put the cells in and hit test?

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:

I set it for Test Mode and set the charging current to 1000ma. Discharge is always half of charging current. In Refresh Mode your setting the discharge current. It depends on the Mode or what it does first.


----------



## buba (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I will be sending mine back for warranty repair. Slot/Channel three is misbehaving. I put 4 known good batteries in it and regardless which slots I rotate them into, slot 3 also seems to cut out and restart or charges at a very low rate. I contacted LaCrosse and they want to have a look at it.

FYI

Update:

LA Crosse replaced (instead of repaired) my charger. Took about 2 weeks. New charger is working to spec.


----------



## wptski (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*buba said:*
I will be sending mine back for warranty repair. Slot/Channel three is misbehaving. I put 4 known good batteries in it and regardless which slots I rotate them into, slot 3 also seems to cut out and restart or charges at a very low rate. I contacted LaCrosse and they want to have a look at it.

FYI 

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry to hear that! I hate sending stuff back, it's just adds to the price! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


----------



## twentysixtwo (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Anyone try charging sub c's or larger (D's) on this charger?

Is there any way to get them to fit, and will the charger be able to do the same conditioning, etc?


----------



## vcal (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Yes, I hooked up a 3Ah "C" cell (using a holder and alligator clip leads) to the LaCrosse"s terminals, and all of the functions were as normal and complete.

p.s. this charger _does_ have a specified 3000mAh charge capacity limit.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

That _is_ interesting. I wonder if the test mode would still work with a C cell. More specifically I wonder if the mA capacity test read-out of a C cell would be correct?


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

The capacity readout should be correct, since all it's doing is calculating the time x charge current.
I haven't looked at this on the BC, but on the 204 Maha charger, the AAA cells don't charge through the same path as AA's, because there's a switch to detect what kind of cell is installed, and limits charge current accordingly. 
I didn't notice that on the BC, but I wasn't really looking for it, so I'm not sure.

One function that you will be disabling would be the temperature sensing, so you'll want to keep an eye on it yourself, should you try this.


----------



## Dukester (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*vcal said:*
p.s. this charger _does_ have a specified 3000mAh charge capacity limit. 

[/ QUOTE ]

So this charger is not a "Intelligent Smart Charger"? In other words it charges until the capacity has been fullfilled no matter what the capacity instead of having as what you call limits... Interesting...

Dave


----------



## LitFuse (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*LitFuse said:*
Is the wallwart on this unit a big heavy brick? 

Consumer Reports (Jan. '05) states that as of 1/1/05 the EPA has expanded it's "Energy Star" program to include external power supplies. Apparently the tide is turning and these monstrosities will switch from linear to switching circuitry and will get much smaller, lighter, and more efficient. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Does anyone know if the "wart" for the BC-900 is a switcher? It looks kinda big in the few photos that I've seen...

Peter 

[/ QUOTE ]

I got mine today, and it is indeed a switching power supply! Cool! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## vcal (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

@Dukester
-Not sure that I understand your question.

Simply put, the charger's delta detecton circuits allow the battery to tell the charger that the battery's capacity has been reached. i.e.-the battery cannot accept anymore charge. Very common convenient feature in the better chargers, and prevents overcharging. 

This charger's maximum upper charge limit (for ANY size cell is 3Ah). It will not calibrate above the 3Ah.


----------



## Dukester (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

vcal - I guess now I am confused... I guess what through me into a spin is when you used the word "limit". Maybe I am missing the boat or something. The charger I use charges a battery no matter what the capacity. In other words when they eventually come out with a D Cell 15000mAH NiMH my charger would charge it up and go into maintenance/trickle charge automatically. I may have misunderstand your posting???

Dave


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Normally, charger manufacturers place an arbitrary limit to the amount of charge it will try to put into a cell, as a safety. For the AA's this was designed for, they don't expect any capacities exceeding 3000mAh, so they used that as a cutoff. While they could have just as easily set it for 5000, or unlimited, it would remove a guard against overcharging. If you put over 3000mAh into a AA, there's something wrong. The 3000mAh is not a limiting factor for the cells it was designed to charge, at least not yet..


----------



## Dukester (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Yes, I understand now, thanks for explaining it to me. I forgot that this charger is a AA & AAA Charger right? The charger I own is a universal thus it will handle 9v, AAA, AA, C & D and there are no capacity limits...

Dave


----------



## eluminator (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

It fooled me. It comes with C and D cell adapters. Why?


----------



## rdshores (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

The C and D adapters are so you can use AA size batteries in things that normally use C and D cells. They are NOT adapters to allow you to charge C and D size cells.


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Isn't this charger a lot of fun?

I believe, but can not confirm, that the 3000 mAh capacity limit has to do with a built in timer. I think when you set the charge rate at say 1000 mA, it also sets a 3 hour timer. At the end of that time, the unit goes into trickle charge mode. The timer is probably adjusted for the different charge rates.

My Vanson and other chargers I have looked at do the same thing. The Vanson is set depending on what size cell you are charging. Some examples are, for AAA - 3.5 hours, for AA - 5 hours, for C - 6 hours, for D - 11.5 hours and for 9v - 11.5 hours. Since the charge current for AA is 500 mA, they could say that the capacity is 2500 mA.

I run into this limitation when charging 9000 mAh D cells. The Vanson will shut down to trickle in 11.5 hours or 8050 mA. To get around this, I simply put the cells in, then after a few hours reset by unplugging and plugging the power cord in. 

If the La Crosse charger is similar, you still could charge up larger capacity cells, but the other functions (test, refresh, and discharge) will not give correct information.


----------



## jedi_master (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

My BC-900 charger hasn't arrived yet so here is my question.. you specify the discharge rate when you select the discharge mode. But do you also need to specify the charging rate along with the discharge rate? So the charger knows what rate to recharge once the battery gets discharged? I'm assuming that the charger starts recharging automatically once the battery gets discharged completely.
Is it possible to stop once the battery gets discharged and not performing the recharge?


----------



## Wingerr (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

The discharge rate is always set to 1/2 of the charge rate; you can't change that ratio short of aborting the cycle after it's halfway through and starting a new one. 
And it doesn't have any discharge-only modes; it'll immediately switches to charge after it discharges, so you'd have to manually stop it if that's what you want to do.


----------



## mapson (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*jedi_master said:*
My BC-900 charger hasn't arrived yet so here is my question.. you specify the discharge rate when you select the discharge mode. But do you also need to specify the charging rate along with the discharge rate? So the charger knows what rate to recharge once the battery gets discharged? I'm assuming that the charger starts recharging automatically once the battery gets discharged completely.
Is it possible to stop once the battery gets discharged and not performing the recharge? 

[/ QUOTE ]

You only set one rate depending on the function. If you set the discharge rate, then the charging rate will be 2x that, if it's the charge rate, then the discharging rate is 1/2 of that. The charger goes right into charging rate once it senses it cannot discharge anymore. If you want to pull out the battery once it stops discharging, you will have to "babysit" the charger and try to watch for it to switch from discharging to charging.


----------



## rdshores (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I got the following data for some 750mah TITANIUM AAA cells:

cell A 425mah
cell B 551mah
cell C 420mah
cell D 562mah

I've run the REFRESH and TEST cycles at 200ma, 500ma, and 700ma current several times. I've tried every combination I can think of to get these cells up to the rated capacity, with no luck. Does anyone else have any results testing these AAA TITANIUM cells?

Here are the results of doing the same testing with 800mah NEXCELL AAA's:

cell A 752mah
cell B 786mah
cell C 809mah
cell D 814mah


----------



## wasBlinded (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

The Titanium brand seems to have some quality issues. Their CR123 cells also come up short compared to other brands.


----------



## oldtimer (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I just read the instructions. It says it charges at a rate of 1800mah and in pairs and a maximum of 1000. What does that mean? Does it decrease evedn more when charging in fours?


----------



## newo (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I've been getting well-below claimed capacities on a dozen Titanium 850s. I didn't record the ratings, but they weren't as bad as yours percentage-wise. These were new cells that I was cycling / conditioning on the charger, per SilverFox's guidelines in another string, and these cells have not been subjected to any abuse whatsoever after removal from their shrinkwrap. After a few "test" cycles I ran a "refresh" cycle, and I was getting readings in the low to mid 700s. I got these results on 12 out of 12 cells, all purchased at the same time, so it isn't an isolated case of a bad / weak cell or two. 

While all of this has been going on - I also have a couple of dozen Energizer 2500 mAh AAs purchased in the past few weeks, have been going through the same drill with them, and every single one of the Energizers comes in above the claimed rating. So it is not the technique I've been using, and it is not the three BC-900 chargers I'm using. The results from the three different chargers, by the way, are very consistent.

Based on my experience, I'd have to say that there is a serious disconnect between the claimed capacity of these particular Titanium 850 AAA cells, and reality. Perhaps my cells were from a bad batch. Perhaps not. 

Let's see - poor quality control, or outright mislabeling . . . . Hmmmm. Does it really matter? Not to me. I won't buy them again.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Yes to charger lowering from 1800mAh; when three or more cells are put in the charger the maximum charge is 1000mAh or lower.


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Newo,

I have not tried the Titanium AAA's. 

I have noticed that the Titanium 2000mAh and 2400mAh AA's are quite good. Neither one comes up to it's rated capacity, but both hold a higher voltage throughout a test. 

My Energizer 2300 mAh cells show more capacity than the Titanium 2400 mAh cells, but the Titanium cells maintain a higher voltage under load. I wonder if the AAA's are doing the same thing.

I have also observed that the BC-900 gives optimistic capacity ratings. When you go to test a cell, it first applies a charge to it to get it to maximum capacity (and warm the cell up a bit), then it does the discharge test to check for capacity. My procedure is to charge the cell up and let it sit for an hour to cool down, then to proceed with the testing. 

I have also noticed that you get better consistency if you "test" fully charged cells. I put discharged cells in the BC-900 and selected the test mode. It gave me readings that ranged from 2.19 Ah - 2.30 Ah. When I took the same charged cells and ran the test again I got a range from 2.34 Ah - 2.37 Ah. It is interesting to note that the cell that showed 2.19 Ah on the first run ended up at 2.37 Ah on the second run. When I let these cell "rest" for an hour, I am getting about 1.9 Ah. Please note that all of these numbers are for an 0.5 amp discharge rate.

Even though the Titanium AA 2400 mAh cells only test to 1900 mAh, I still recommend them. The reason? They hold a higher voltage during the test. This means that you will get a longer run time (to half brightness) from the Titanium 2400's than you will get from the Energizer 2300's. Have you been able to do any run time testing to half brightness?

When I finish testing chargers, I will move on to checking cells. Once we know how to get the most into a battery, then we can check out the various brands to see how well they hold up.

The BC-900 is becoming my favorite charger. I can throw cells on it and walk away and know they will be ready the next day. If I need them quicker, I can dial that in as well. Finally, if I am interested in capacity, I can do a check on that as well. I have not tried the refresh mode yet, so I can not comment on that.

I'll try to get ahold of some Titanium AAA's for the next round of testing. I wonder if they are behaving similar to the AA's.

Tom


----------



## jedi_master (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*mapson said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*jedi_master said:*
My BC-900 charger hasn't arrived yet so here is my question.. you specify the discharge rate when you select the discharge mode. But do you also need to specify the charging rate along with the discharge rate? So the charger knows what rate to recharge once the battery gets discharged? I'm assuming that the charger starts recharging automatically once the battery gets discharged completely.
Is it possible to stop once the battery gets discharged and not performing the recharge? 

[/ QUOTE ]

You only set one rate depending on the function. If you set the discharge rate, then the charging rate will be 2x that, if it's the charge rate, then the discharging rate is 1/2 of that. The charger goes right into charging rate once it senses it cannot discharge anymore. If you want to pull out the battery once it stops discharging, you will have to "babysit" the charger and try to watch for it to switch from discharging to charging. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. So can you display how much being discharged after the battery gets recharged fully? Another word, I want to know the battery capacity before it gets recharged. That will allow me to test the self-discharge rate for different brands of battery. I hope I won't have to "babysit" the charger to find out how much being discharged.


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Jedi Master,

Welcome to CPF.

If you put the cells in to charge, at the end of the charge the display will read full. If you hit the display button, you will scroll through some information including the amps put into the cell.

Tom


----------



## rdshores (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Jedi Master:

I want to do the same thing as you...test some cells say off another charger, but I don't see how you can do it without babysitting the charger. As SilverFox said, if you let the cell charge back up to FULL, it will show the charge put in, not the discharge capacity.


----------



## jedi_master (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*rdshores said:*
Jedi Master:

I want to do the same thing as you...test some cells say off another charger, but I don't see how you can do it without babysitting the charger. As SilverFox said, if you let the cell charge back up to FULL, it will show the charge put in, not the discharge capacity. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping the charger could log how much being discharged in addition to the amount being recharged. I guess BC-900 can improve in this area. Also, the 3000 mAh upper limit seems a bit low for today's batteries. As seen in the report, the 2500 mAH battery from Energizer accepts as much as 2800 mAh. So we aren't too far away from hitting this upper limit. I guess they want us to buy another charger when 2700 mAh battery comes along. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## jedi_master (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Jedi Master,

Welcome to CPF.

If you put the cells in to charge, at the end of the charge the display will read full. If you hit the display button, you will scroll through some information including the amps put into the cell.

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom, I got it now. Ignore my last post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I can indeed
find out the self-discharge rate of a battery. Cool!


----------



## jedi_master (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*rdshores said:*
Jedi Master:

I want to do the same thing as you...test some cells say off another charger, but I don't see how you can do it without babysitting the charger. As SilverFox said, if you let the cell charge back up to FULL, it will show the charge put in, not the discharge capacity. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you didn't get what SilverFox said.. I myself didn't get it at first. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif You can find out the self discharge rate because when you perform a Charge function (not Discharge) on a partially charged battery (e.g. battery sitting for a few weeks) it tells you how much being charged. So subtract that number from the number recorded previously when the battery was fully charged gives you the self discharge amount. This gives you a good rough estimate but not exact mAh since each charge may be off slightly. I hope this makes sense.


----------



## jedi_master (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*jedi_master said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*rdshores said:*
Jedi Master:

I want to do the same thing as you...test some cells say off another charger, but I don't see how you can do it without babysitting the charger. As SilverFox said, if you let the cell charge back up to FULL, it will show the charge put in, not the discharge capacity. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you didn't get what SilverFox said.. I myself didn't get it at first. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif You can find out the self discharge rate because when you perform a Charge function (not Discharge) on a partially charged battery (e.g. battery sitting for a few weeks) it tells you how much being charged. So subtract that number from the number recorded previously when the battery was fully charged gives you the self discharge amount. This gives you a good rough estimate but not exact mAh since each charge may be off slightly. I hope this makes sense. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Correction.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The subtract number I mentioned here is what was left since the battery was fully charged. The charge amount shown in the charger is really the self discharge amount. Confusing huh. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Jedi Master,

I think you have it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

The 3000 mAh limit on charging is easy to work around by simply re-starting the charge after a couple of hours. I believe it is 3000 mAh per charge cycle. This would not help with the testing function, but you could still charge large capacity cells on it.

Tom


----------



## jedi_master (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Jedi Master,

I think you have it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

The 3000 mAh limit on charging is easy to work around by simply re-starting the charge after a couple of hours. I believe it is 3000 mAh per charge cycle. This would not help with the testing function, but you could still charge large capacity cells on it.

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. Now that some of you have this nifty charger, has anyone measured the self discharge rate for various brands battery? It should be easy to do with this toy. I'm still waiting for my charger to arrive.


----------



## vcal (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

There are a _lotta_ battery brands around.
-Most of us with this new charger have only had it a week or two. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## jedi_master (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*vcal said:*
There are a _lotta_ battery brands around.
-Most of us with this new charger have only had it a week or two. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Understood. Since it is so easy to measure with this toy, just measure what you have and post your findings. I don't expect people to go out and buy various brands just to test the self discharge rate. Test what you have and report. I expect the rate to be varied and it should be interesting to find out.


----------



## vcal (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

FYI-here are the tested capacity results for the four included La Crosse Tech AA 2000mAh cells:
1) 1990mAh
2) 1982mAh
3) 2010mAh
4) *1742*mAh

-typical of results of 4 pack of off-brand cells. 
OTOH, my 4 Eveready 2150s lowest cell was 2055-highest 2225mAh.


----------



## mapson (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

*vcal*, if you have not done so, cycle those cells a few times, you may see a mah increase.

*jedi_master*, I moved the tested data from my stock of cells from a post in the middle to the first post in this thread (easier to find). In case you want to see some other brands.


----------



## rdshores (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Now I'm lost. What would the procedure be if I wanted to use the BC-900 to measure the capacity of a cell I charged up on another charger? Is this possible without having to constantly monitor the BC-900. I'd like to be able to see if my other chargers are giving me a full charge.


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Rdshores,

That gets a little more difficult.

I would grab the "hot" cells off the other charger and put them in the BC-900, select the test mode, and set the current for 1000 mA.

The BC-900 will try to put a little more charge into the cell, but if it is already warm and at peak voltage, it should top off quickly. This should give you a close discharge capacity.

Another tactic is to let your other charger charge the cells and go into trickle mode for a half hour or so. Let the cells cool down for an hour, then pop them into the BC-900 to see how much additional charge it can put into them. This would be similar to a test for self discharge.

Tom


----------



## newo (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hi Tom,

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*

My Energizer 2300 mAh cells show more capacity than the Titanium 2400 mAh cells, but the Titanium cells maintain a higher voltage under load. I wonder if the AAA's are doing the same thing. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. 

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:* 

I have also observed that the BC-900 gives optimistic capacity ratings. When you go to test a cell, it first applies a charge to it to get it to maximum capacity (and warm the cell up a bit), then it does the discharge test to check for capacity. My procedure is to charge the cell up and let it sit for an hour to cool down, then to proceed with the testing. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm interpreting this to mean that you believe that the capacity reading is optimistic while the cell is still warm. By extension, then, I conclude that you also believe it is more accurate when the cell has cooled to room temp. Do I have that right?

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*

I have also noticed that you get better consistency if you "test" fully charged cells. 

[/ QUOTE ]


This is what I did, although purely by happenstance, and not by design. Beginner's luck.

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*

Even though the Titanium AA 2400 mAh cells only test to 1900 mAh, I still recommend them. The reason? They hold a higher voltage during the test. This means that you will get a longer run time (to half brightness) from the Titanium 2400's than you will get from the Energizer 2300's. Have you been able to do any run time testing to half brightness? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Because I don't know with any specificity how to actually do that with acceptable levels of reliability - my photographic light meter died years ago. I moved on from photography to other pastimes, and I've never replaced it. I note that someone, whose handle eludes me at the moment, has rigged up some kind of arrangement with a photocell and some other equipement, but I've not seen it described with enough detail to enable me to replicate it. 

Is the path of least resistance here simply to buy another light meter? This, of course, would probably also lead to the purchase of a digital camera with serious manual capabilities, as opposed to the automated, semi-idiot proof "fire and forget" digital I have now. My bride will be thrilled beyond measure . . . .

As by now should be painfully evident, I am a rank amateur in this particular arena. Willing, but untutored, and, thus far at least, ill equipped as well. I can fix the second piece of that equation. That leaves the first. Are there any primers you can point me towards to get me up to speed? Assume a reasonable level of literacy, but little grounding in the hard sciences or engineering - my backgrounds are in law and in business, which my friends in academe gleefully inform me means that I am essentially uneducated.


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Newo,

Your interpretation of how cell temperature effects capacity readings is correct.

Some good information about batteries can be found here and here .

Tom


----------



## eluminator (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Newo. Shine the light on the wall. Take pictures of the spot periodically with your idiot-proof camera. 

Observe the pictures later with a viewer that will show the shutter speed, etc. If the flashlight and camera weren't moved during the test you will see all the pictures look identical because the camera has adjusted it's shutter speed, or maybe the lens opening, as the light dimmed.

My cheap (but neat) camera rarely, if ever, changes the lens opening and the shutter speed is reported as 1/x. So x is the relative brightness. For instance if the first picture had an exposure time of 1/800 then when the exposure time gets to 1/400, the brightness as halved. At least that's my theory.

The only problem with this method is I have to manually take the pictures. I also record the time manually because my cheap (but neat) camera only logs time to the minute.

I'm guessing the button I press to take a picture is just an electrical switch and if I pried the sucker apart I might be able to solder on a pair of wires to run to a logging computer. But I'm afraid that would make my cheap (but neat) camera a lot less neat than it used to be.


----------



## TrueBlue (Feb 1, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

You could get a digital camera with an intervalometer. I have one.


----------



## eluminator (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I haven't heard of intervalometer, but it sounds like it would do. Something for time lapse photography, I suppose.

But I'm cheap, just like my camera. Actually I got the camera free when I bought Microsoft Office at an exorbitant price. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## jedi_master (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*mapson said:*
*vcal*, if you have not done so, cycle those cells a few times, you may see a mah increase.

*jedi_master*, I moved the tested data from my stock of cells from a post in the middle to the first post in this thread (easier to find). In case you want to see some other brands. 

[/ QUOTE ]

The numbers you have are capacity for various brands which is great. But I'm also interested in finding the self discharge rate. In order to measure the self discharge rate, you will need to charge it fully and let it sit for a week or two and then recharge to find out the self discharge rate.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Batteries don't exactly operate like cups of water in that way, so you would be better off measuring the capacity to discharge rather than capacity to recharge, after allowing your period for self discharge. The results would be more meaningful, since you're more interested in how much you can get out of the battery. Charge in numbers are generally more than the charge out number, due to charging losses-


----------



## jedi_master (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
Batteries don't exactly operate like cups of water in that way, so you would be better off measuring the capacity to discharge rather than capacity to recharge, after allowing your period for self discharge. The results would be more meaningful, since you're more interested in how much you can get out of the battery. Charge in numbers are generally more than the charge out number, due to charging losses- 

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. But unless you're willing to babysit the BC-900, you can't tell how much being discharged from discharge operation. My understanding is that the charger will recharge immediately after completing the discharge. That's the reason for my suggestion.


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Jedi Master,

When you get your charger you will realize that the discharge capacity is stored in memory and is available for viewing until you kill the power or remove the cell. You can access that information via the display button.

Tom


----------



## newo (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Tom

Thanks for those links; they really have a wealth of information. There are times, and this is one of them, when I really marvel over what the web has become - in this case a substitute for a hard to find, and harder to access, technical library. Again, thanks. It is going to take a bit of time to try and absorb all that is there.

Eluminator

What a creative idea! Which I will follow up on, assuming that I don't use all of this as an excuse to pick up another light meter after all . . . .


----------



## eluminator (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*newo said:*
Eluminator

What a creative idea! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. You're only the second person that appreciates my talents. 

Now if I was really as clever as you and my mother think I am, I should be able to get my two voltmeters in the picture too. That way I could record the battery voltage and the current draw without having to sit there and write it down once a minute or so.

By the way, the only picture viewer I have seen that shows the camera exposure settings is vueprint at hamrick.com. It isn't free although I guess you can use it without paying if you don't mind the "watermark" it puts in the picture.

I just had another brainstorm. I should put a clock in the picture that shows seconds. That would take care of the fact that my camera only records time to the minute.


----------



## rdshores (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Silverfox said: [ QUOTE ]
Hello Jedi Master,

When you get your charger you will realize that the discharge capacity is stored in memory and is available for viewing until you kill the power or remove the cell. You can access that information via the display button.

Tom 


[/ QUOTE ] 

In the CHARGE and DISCHARGE cycle, the BC-900 records the amount of current put back into the cell. In the REFRESH and TEST cycle, the BC-900 records the discharge capacity.


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 2, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Rdshores,

Thanks for that clarification. I really to re-read the instruction manual and play a bit more with mine...

Tom


----------



## udaman (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Rdshores,

Thanks for that clarification. I really to re-read the instruction manual and play a bit more with mine...

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, this has become the MOA charger threads, took me more than a hour to read through it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I guess I missed most of it in January when I lost my internet connection/phone line for weeks due to rain storm shorted wires. 

Question I still don't seem to have gleaned from skimming through all of this, is how the charger displays real time status of the charging status of each cell/channel? Just voltage or amp digit display that rise with time? Or is there a graphical representation of charging state like with a LCD cell phone?

Is there a SilverFox review on tap shortly, like the one for the Rayovac IC3 system? Not surprising to me that an inexpensive charger is overly optimistic in reporting capacities of cells. Think about it, would manufacturers who have access to expensive and sophisticated equipment, publish overly conservative ratings for their cells? It does not make sense, and in fact Mr. Al's thread about false claims of capacity for most AA NiMH goes against the logic that this charger could miraculously make consumer cells attain greater than rated battery capacity. This is particularly so, when most manufacturers of AA NiMH rate capacity at 0.1C ( current discharge of 1/10th rated capacity).

Still it would seem this charger does supply 'bang-for-the-buck' value; if only it could charge AA's in 15min /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.


----------



## jedi_master (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*udaman said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Rdshores,

Thanks for that clarification. I really to re-read the instruction manual and play a bit more with mine...

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, this has become the MOA charger threads, took me more than a hour to read through it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I guess I missed most of it in January when I lost my internet connection/phone line for weeks due to rain storm shorted wires. 

Question I still don't seem to have gleaned from skimming through all of this, is how the charger displays real time status of the charging status of each cell/channel? Just voltage or amp digit display that rise with time? Or is there a graphical representation of charging state like with a LCD cell phone?

Is there a SilverFox review on tap shortly, like the one for the Rayovac IC3 system? Not surprising to me that an inexpensive charger is overly optimistic in reporting capacities of cells. Think about it, would manufacturers who have access to expensive and sophisticated equipment, publish overly conservative ratings for their cells? It does not make sense, and in fact Mr. Al's thread about false claims of capacity for most AA NiMH goes against the logic that this charger could miraculously make consumer cells attain greater than rated battery capacity. This is particularly so, when most manufacturers of AA NiMH rate capacity at 0.1C ( current discharge of 1/10th rated capacity).

Still it would seem this charger does supply 'bang-for-the-buck' value; if only it could charge AA's in 15min /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. 

[/ QUOTE ]

When you interpret the capacity reported by the charger, you should be aware of the charging mode. Because the charger put 2000 mAh doesn't mean the battery capacity is 2000 mAh. Due to internal resistance, the charger actually needs to put in more than 2000 mAh. The discharge number is what you can really count on measuring the capacity. Having said that some batteries can't even charge to their spec as reported in this thread. So those batteries are clearly bogus. A good battery ought to accept more than their spec as you saw with energizer.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Ha, took me a bit to figure out what MOA was - and it wasn't Minute Of Accuracy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]

Question I still don't seem to have gleaned from skimming through all of this, is how the charger displays real time status of the charging status of each cell/channel? Just voltage or amp digit display that rise with time? Or is there a graphical representation of charging state like with a LCD cell phone? 

[/ QUOTE ]
It gives a numerical display for the voltage and current of each cell (selectable display, because there isn't room to display both at once). The current is constant throughout the charge cycle, so you won't see it change as it progresses (you get to pick how fast you want to charge it when you start the charge).

Sounds like everyone would have preferred that they retain the discharge capacity on the discharge mode as well as the test and refresh modes, or at least make it another display option. I guess they figured it would get too confusing.

Actually, according to the manual, if you select refresh mode, this will retain the discharge capacity even after it starts charging back up again, so you don't have to babysit it as much. All you have to do is catch it before the next discharge cycle occurs, in order to get the value you want (the first cycle).
If you wait too long and it goes through another discharge cycle, it may update the number displayed with that second value, which isn't what you wanted.


----------



## FritzM (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello,

does any one here know the BC-900 OEM charger original equipment manufacturer name / address, because I need to directly contact them for specific questions.


----------



## FritzM (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello,

does anyone know the BC-900 charger OEM Original Equipment Manufacturer, because I need to directly contact them.


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Fritz,

Welcome to CPF.

La Crosse Technology Ltd can be found at www.lacrossetechnology.com or by phone at 507-895-7095.

Tom


----------



## wquiles (Feb 4, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Sorry if it has already been posted, but the BC-900 can also be adquired form J.S. Burly's at:
https://www.jsburlys.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=95&osCsid=4de615945e471faa8f00616ea52ed276

Will


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 5, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

This has become quite a thread. I think there is enough data in here for me to start thinking about a FAQ page built from the comments.

I think I will start a review thread in a couple of days to break open comments that will provide questions and answers.


----------



## Phaserburn (Feb 5, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Good idea, Jon. Looking forward to receiving my charger shortly.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 5, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Phaserburn. Did it not arrive today? I am sure it will be there monday if not there yet, it seems like lots of them arrived today.


----------



## Phaserburn (Feb 5, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Yep, got it today. Already charged the batts it came with. So far, so good. Odd that for such an advanced charger, they'd ship with 2000mah AAs and 700mah AAAs. Then again, maybe that's why they were included free. No matter, they will get good use in my lights. Looking forward to using the different functions.


----------



## wptski (Feb 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I thought that I could register my charger online instead of mailing the card. I tried the two URL's mentioned in the literature that came with the charger. That was web page or web page .

After going around in circles for sometime I gave up! Anyone else try to register online? If you found the page, please post it.

EDIT: That's funny, now it takes me right to the page! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif I see what I did! A typo in the address took me to some strange page. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## nrk (Feb 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

On the back of my charger it says to go to "www.lacrossetechnology.com/900" for instructions. This page is not found. It looks like their web presence is not quite up to snuff.


----------



## nrk (Feb 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Bill,
I got to the online registration form but did not see the BC-900 on the pick list for models. What did you use?

;-norm


----------



## wptski (Feb 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*nrk said:*
On the back of my charger it says to go to "www.lacrossetechnology.com/900" for instructions. This page is not found. It looks like their web presence is not quite up to snuff. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Try typing in "www.lacrossetechnolgy.com" with "technolgy" without the second "o". You'll go where I was!


----------



## wptski (Feb 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*nrk said:*
Bill,
I got to the online registration form but did not see the BC-900 on the pick list for models. What did you use?

;-norm 

[/ QUOTE ]
Norm:

It's there, scroll way to the bottom.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I have yet to use one of these but I will start using one soon. I started a review thread anyway. Perhaps some of you can point out the most useful features and how to use them.


----------



## LEDmodMan (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Here's some data I've collected in test mode on some batteries since I've had the charger. First, AA's:

LaCrosse 2000mAh: (first cycle on batteries)
Charge @ 500mA, discharge @ 250mA
A: 1693
B: 1702
C: 1772
D: 1965

Panasonic 2100mAh: (broken-in, purchased from Costco)
Charge @ 700mA, discharge @ 350mA
A: 2160
B: 2140
C: 2150
D: 2180

Panasonic 2300mAh: (first cycle on batteries, also purchased from Costco, these replace the 2100mAh Costco used to carry)
Charge @ 700mA, discharge @ 350mA
A: 2150
B: 1967
C: 2160
D: 2320

Now, here are the results I've collected so far from some AAA's:

LaCrosse 700mAh: (first cycle on batteries)
Charge @ 500mA, discharge @ 250mA
A: 650
B: 634
C: 640
D: 646

I also have some Panasonic AAA's in 750mAh and 780mAh capacities, but haven't had the chance to test them yet. I'll let everyone know how they do.

I'm interested to see if the Panasonic 2300's live up to their capacity ratings once they're broken in. If I were to infer a guess based on the 2100's, I would say they will. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif So far, the Panasonic batts seem to compare well and live up to their ratings once broken in like the Sanyo (Energizer) ones, which is a good thing I would say.

Also, I want to re-cycle the LaCrosse AA's at 700mA/350mA and see how they do. Time will tell.


----------



## wasBlinded (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I've put my LaCrosse 2000 mAh cells through refresh cycles twice. The worst one is just above 1600 mAh, and the best was 2020 mAh. I think the wide spread in capacities indicates these aren't high quality cells, but I'll find some role for them. The AAA cells were very close together, but didn't quite hit the 700mAh rating.


----------



## nrk (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Here are my stats for the LaCrosse AAA, 700 mah batteries

Ran them first in test mode at 200 charge/100 discharge
Then did a refresh at 500 charge/250 discharge

602 - 681
604 - 655
631 - 672
640 - 686


----------



## wptski (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I have something that uses six AAs, so I twelve cells altogether. These are old NEXcells, unknown capacity, in fact I have a post where I cooked one in a MAHA MH-C402W.

Tried to charge them in the C402w, LED blinked red and the same on a C401FS too. It was one cell that was really a problem and a couple where one very low voltage compared to the other.

I put the single bad cell in the BC-900 and it charged. I set it for 500ma, not sure if it would have made any difference at a lower current. Over four hours later, it showed a input of 2.39Ah. This isn't no where near possible because they never had capacity like that years ago! Other cells were 1508mAh and 1114mAh.

I put that 2.39Ah on my CBA set for 1A. It didn't run two seconds when the voltage dropped. I tried .5A with the same results.

This is a bad cell that didn't fool the C401FS but did the BC-900. A bad cell should show "NULL" on the screen.

The cell that show 1508mAh tested at .44Ah on the CBA.

I think that I'll try the REFRESH mode at a low current on the bad cell just to see what happens.

EDIT: Hmm, the bad cell shows FULL on the BC-900 but I guess that's just a voltage check anyway!


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Bill,

Gee Whiz, you are way ahead of me. I don't have any dead cells to play with.

If you put the dead cell in the BC-900 and select the test mode what do you get?

Tom


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

That's why you have to take the input charge figures with a grain of salt, in the case of that bad cell, it's like putting a resistor in the charger, it just takes in the current but voltage doesn't change.
If you run a test mode cycle on it, the BC-900 will show a near zero capacity. Input charge does NOT equate to real capacity.


----------



## wptski (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Bill,

Gee Whiz, you are way ahead of me. I don't have any dead cells to play with.

If you put the dead cell in the BC-900 and select the test mode what do you get?

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]
Lucky me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Don't know, didn't do a Test Mode but out of bunch of six only two wouldn't go bong in two seconds on the CBA at 1A but only showed .4Ah. Some were charged on a C401FS too. I got those four in the BC-900 in Refresh Mode at 350ma.

I never knew that I had so many bad cells, I always thought that the unit was hard on batteries. I'll have to switch over to some PowerEx 1800mAh that I have.


----------



## wptski (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
That's why you have to take the input charge figures with a grain of salt, in the case of that bad cell, it's like putting a resistor in the charger, it just takes in the current but voltage doesn't change.
If you run a test mode cycle on it, the BC-900 will show a near zero capacity. Input charge does NOT equate to real capacity. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't know about that! I ran CBA test on Pila 168S and charged them on a Triton. The input mAh matched the CBA discharge pretty close.


----------



## gantenbein (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello,

can anyone tell me the DC-input-Voltage of the charge ? Sorry - I didn't find it here or in the manual.

Thanks,
Roberto.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

You have to look all the way back on the first page for this one-

[ QUOTE ]
*stringj said:*
The power brick's output is 3 volts at 4 amps. 


[/ QUOTE ]


----------



## gantenbein (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Aha - yes sorry - Im not a native speaker, but now I combine that the power brick is the transformer .

THX,
Robert.

P.S: Would have liked 12V much better for the car - but never mind.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

If you have to use it in a car, you could get a small power inverter to convert the 12V to 120VAC, and then back down again. Convoluted, but easy enough.
The little one piece 70W ones that Vector sells for notebooks would work well.


----------



## wptski (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Bill,

Gee Whiz, you are way ahead of me. I don't have any dead cells to play with.

If you put the dead cell in the BC-900 and select the test mode what do you get?

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:

Four NEXcells after Refresh Mode:

CBA tests
249mAh
Ran only a few seconds at .5A or 1A. This was the cell that showed 2.39Ah on the BC-900.

479mAh
Ran only a few seconds at .5A or 1A.

609mAh
Ran only a few seconds at 1A but showed 410mAh at .5A

904mAh
Showed 570mAh at 1A.


----------



## gantenbein (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Thanks for the tip - I just found a 12V to 3V (ot others) converter in my flat - it´s limited to [email protected] - so I´ll give it a careful start and the multimeter on -).

Robert.


----------



## Penguin (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

I recieved mine today! I read the manual and everything but I still cant get the darn thing to charge faster than 200mah!!!! OK ok, tell me if I'm doing something wrong. Put the battery in, click current, still says 200, tried holding it down, nothing. Any suggestions?


----------



## vcal (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

See my later post on the other LaCrosse thread (around 12:02am Pacific) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Penguin (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

Oh! I found the problem, apparently, Where you insert the batteries matter, IE, always start with slot one, then slot two, ect.


----------



## wptski (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Penguin said:*
I recieved mine today! I read the manual and everything but I still cant get the darn thing to charge faster than 200mah!!!! OK ok, tell me if I'm doing something wrong. Put the battery in, click current, still says 200, tried holding it down, nothing. Any suggestions? 

[/ QUOTE ]
You only have 8 sec before it starts a 200ma charge cycle. Pull the power cord at the unit, insert the cells, plug the power cord back in and then try it. That should give you plenty of time to change the charging current. I've had to do it this way numerous times! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

Hello Bill,

Try it again. This time select the test mode on the BC-900 and set the current to 1000 mA.

This set up should come close to your CBA results at 0.5 amps.

Tom


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*Penguin said:*
Oh! I found the problem, apparently, Where you insert the batteries matter, IE, always start with slot one, then slot two, ect. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, to get maximum charge rate, you're limited to two slots, and you have to use slot one and slot four, IIRC. It won't charge at max current for all four slots. 
If you wait too long and let it default to 200mA after inserting a battery into that first slot, the others will be limited to that value as well.
You just have to briefly remove all the batteries to allow it to reset, then start again with slot one.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:* Pull the power cord at the unit, insert the cells, plug the power cord back in and then try it. That should give you plenty of time to change the charging current. I've had to do it this way numerous times! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
Normally, you should power up the charger without any batteries inserted; is there a reason why you put the batteries in first? Not sure if you may be getting funky readings as a result of this. 
I haven't unplugged the charger since I've gotten it- removing all the cells from the charger resets it, if you need to change the current limitation.


----------



## wptski (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:* Pull the power cord at the unit, insert the cells, plug the power cord back in and then try it. That should give you plenty of time to change the charging current. I've had to do it this way numerous times! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
Normally, you should power up the charger without any batteries inserted; is there a reason why you put the batteries in first? Not sure if you may be getting funky readings as a result of this. 
I haven't unplugged the charger since I've gotten it- removing all the cells from the charger resets it, if you need to change the current limitation. 

[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't quote my whole post. Correct but I have run into the same problem like my unit doesn't give me 8 seconds at times to change parameters before defaulting!


----------



## wptski (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*Penguin said:*
Oh! I found the problem, apparently, Where you insert the batteries matter, IE, always start with slot one, then slot two, ect. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, to get maximum charge rate, you're limited to two slots, and you have to use slot one and slot four, IIRC. It won't charge at max current for all four slots. 
If you wait too long and let it default to 200mA after inserting a battery into that first slot, the others will be limited to that value as well.
You just have to briefly remove all the batteries to allow it to reset, then start again with slot one. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that you can't charge four cells at 1A? I think that I've done that but it did shut off to cool off. I believe that it's mentioned somewhere above.

EDIT: I just tried four cells at 1A with no problem! Either your unit is defective or possibly a early version, etc.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
EDIT: I just tried four cells at 1A with no problem! Either your unit is defective or possibly a early version, etc. 

[/ QUOTE ]

?
1A rate isn't the maximum charge rate- 1.8A is. Did you get the instruction manual with your charger? If so, please take a look and it should have the rest of the details in there.


----------



## wptski (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
EDIT: I just tried four cells at 1A with no problem! Either your unit is defective or possibly a early version, etc. 

[/ QUOTE ]

?
1A rate isn't the maximum charge rate- 1.8A is. Did you get the instruction manual with your charger? If so, please take a look and it should have the rest of the details in there. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I got a manual! Must have blew right by that on the first few pages. Why doesn't the manual mention 1.8A in the charts for Test, Refresh, etc.? You'd think that they would repeat that tidbit like they do other things. No wonder somebody said that the manual was poor.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
[ QUOTE ]

Of course I got a manual! Must have blew right by that on the first few pages. Why doesn't the manual mention 1.8A in the charts for Test, Refresh, etc.? You'd think that they would repeat that tidbit like they do other things. No wonder somebody said that the manual was poor. 

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that they're trying to protect people that don't really know what 1.8A represents, and cause untold misery in damaged cells. Most people aren't in that much of a rush. I wouldn't recommend using that rate myself, but it may come in handy for some.


----------



## Exit32 (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*wasBlinded said:*
I've put my LaCrosse 2000 mAh cells through refresh cycles twice. The worst one is just above 1600 mAh, and the best was 2020 mAh. I think the wide spread in capacities indicates these aren't high quality cells, but I'll find some role for them. The AAA cells were very close together, but didn't quite hit the 700mAh rating. 

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the fine print on the La Crosse cells, you'll see the AA cells say, "Typical: 1900 mAh plus/minus 10%" and the AAA cells say, "Typical: 670 mAh plus/minus 10%". 

This is the first time I've seen a manufacturer specify some "wiggle room" regarding cell capacity.


----------



## wptski (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
[ QUOTE ]

Of course I got a manual! Must have blew right by that on the first few pages. Why doesn't the manual mention 1.8A in the charts for Test, Refresh, etc.? You'd think that they would repeat that tidbit like they do other things. No wonder somebody said that the manual was poor. 

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that they're trying to protect people that don't really know what 1.8A represents, and cause untold misery in damaged cells. Most people aren't in that much of a rush. I wouldn't recommend using that rate myself, but it may come in handy for some. 

[/ QUOTE ]
The MAHA MH-C402W is 2A rate with two cells and 1A with four cells!


----------



## wptski (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charger*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Bill,

Try it again. This time select the test mode on the BC-900 and set the current to 1000 mA.

This set up should come close to your CBA results at 0.5 amps.

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]
Tom:

At 1A the cell that checked 410mAh at .5A showed 325mAh.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
The MAHA MH-C402W is 2A rate with two cells and 1A with four cells! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you use that rate on the Nexcells you mentioned earlier?

[ QUOTE ]

I have something that uses six AAs, so I twelve cells altogether. These are old NEXcells, unknown capacity, in fact I have a post where I cooked one in a MAHA MH-C402W


[/ QUOTE ]


----------



## wptski (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*wptski said:*
The MAHA MH-C402W is 2A rate with two cells and 1A with four cells! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you use that rate on the Nexcells you mentioned earlier?

[ QUOTE ]

I have something that uses six AAs, so I twelve cells altogether. These are old NEXcells, unknown capacity, in fact I have a post where I cooked one in a MAHA MH-C402W


[/ QUOTE ] 

[/ QUOTE ]
If your asking if I charged a pair at 2A, the answer is NO. It only cooked one cell and it charges is pairs. That pair finished with a green light which sometime started to flash red and the one cell was cooked. It supposed to have a temperature cutoff too.

These are old NEXcell when they were green with gray but aren't marked for mAh rating.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re:*

I seem to have a lot of those old Nexcells that have gone bad too. The Maha 204 I have definitely seems to charge more aggressively; it may have been a contributing factor. Even the brand new Nexcell 2100's I got some time ago sizzled when charged; not a good thing to hear. Don't know whether it was due to defective cells or the charge rate. 
I couldn't control the charge rate on the Maha chargers I have, so there wasn't much I could do about it. 
With the BC, I have better control, and the individual cell charge is better, since you don't have to fret about keeping cells in matched pairs when charging. If you put a mismatched pair in the Maha, it might have overcharged that second cell. I haven't used the Maha at all since I got the BC.


----------



## RewopEldnac (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re:*

Maybe somebody already mentioned it, I hope oneday La Crosse will make this charger for C & D size too + maybe r123. Is that too much to ask? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## N162E (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*RewopEldnac said:*
Maybe somebody already mentioned it, I hope oneday La Crosse will make this charger for C & D size too + maybe r123. Is that too much to ask? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Add to the "Wish List" How about a data-port and software to track individual cells. Make My Day!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## jedi_master (Feb 13, 2005)

*Re:*

Okay guys, I have my BC-900 for a week and it is time to contribute.. below are my test results..

Sanyo 2100 mAh (over a year old batteries)
Charge/discharge at 700/350 mAh

#1 2190 
#2 2190
#3 2220
#4 2160

LenmarPro 2000 mAh (over a year old batteries)
Charge/discharge at 500/250 mAh

#1 1674, 1757, 1771
#2 1626, 1639, 1595

La Crosse 2000 mAh (new batteries)
Charge/discharge at 500/250 mAh

#1 1983
#2 1914, 1915
#3 2020
#4 1773, 1741

La Crosse aaa 700 mAh (new batteries)
Charge/discharge at 500/250 mAh

#1 616, 650
#2 648
#3 659
#4 657

Energizer 2500 mAh (a few cycles old)
Charge/discharge at 700/350 mAh

#1 2580
#2 2560
#3 2600
#4 2570
#5 2610
#6 2660

Maha Powerex 2200 mAh (a few cycles old)
Charge/discharge at 700/350 mAh

#1 2260, 2320
#2 2160, 2200, 2180
#3 2130, 2160, 2140
#4 2360, 2380

Based on my findings, I will not buy another Lenmar battery. They are overrate labeled batteries. I'll stick with Sanyo and Energizer for now.


----------



## RewopEldnac (Feb 13, 2005)

*Re:*

[ QUOTE ]
*N162E said:*
Add to the "Wish List" How about a data-port and software to track individual cells. Make My Day!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Data port as in USB, and a software that run on your computer with GUI that can download the log from the charger and program the charger for different battery types. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Brock (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re:*

Has anyone found a 12vdc to 3vdc @ 4amp converter yet? Heck even a 2 amp one? I typically will run it in 200mA mode.

I know, I know I could use a cheap inverter. I have 1000a at 12v battery bank, so I would like to keep it simple.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re:*

I will harass them about the port but I doubt I can get them to do it.


----------



## twolf (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

a german review with pictures:
http://forum.penum.de/showthread.php?id=17111
inside is a 8-Bit micro-controller with 4x32 LCD-support, ADC with 10 or 12 Bit and Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) output
the time drift results from the ceramic resonator (cheaper then a quartz) - my BC-900 drift is 9,2 sec/hour


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Wonder what the switch contacts look like- I wonder if I should try opening it up to clean them off a bit, because it sometimes takes a firm press on the buttons to actuate.

It doesn't seem to have separate contact nodes for AA vs AAA's, so I wonder how it distinguishes between the two sizes. The negative terminals all appear interconnected, and the positive ones look common for both sizes.


----------



## wquiles (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I got my own BC-900 (from Butly's) and after a week of use I REALLY like it a lot. It is awesome to be able to know what is happening to each cell and to being able to change the charging current so easily. Definitely a great buy!

Will


----------



## stringj (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Wingerr,
It shouldn't have to distinguish between the two sizes of cells as it will charge them both the same way. Other chargers have the separate contacts for AA or AAA cells because they will only charge the different sized cells at a rate set at the factory (less current for AAA cells versus AA cells).
Jerry


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I seem to recall the charge rates for AAA's being limited to 700mA for some reason; I'll check the manual- Or, maybe someone would like to find out if they can set a 1.8A charge rate on their AAA cell and let us know for sure... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif

Edit: Yep, looks like you can select any rate you desire, it's just up to the user. I just recalled seeing Table 1 that has the typical charge times vs. current, and they only went up to 700 mAH in the chart, even though you could choose 1.8A, inadvisable as it is. 
Total freedom! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

As long as you know that freedom has its price and with freedom comes responcibility.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 19, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Sorta like having spidey-powers- /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

ack....I can't spell but everyone knows that. Yeah, like spidey-powers. But I didn't see spideyman.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

And I did confirm that freedom, and was responsible enough to pull the AAA battery out as soon as I did... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Brock (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Well technically it will cut off the charging when it get to hot, I haven’t tried it yet, but it should prevent it from overheating the AAA cell, right? Not that the cell will like the amperage, but it should sort of protect it.


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Hello Brock,

I was under the impression that the small metal strip at the + end of the battery holder was responsible for monitoring temperature.

Any ideas on how to "non-destructively" test that?

Tom


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

If it would benefit CPF in the quest for product information, I might be willing to donate one to be destructively tested in the name of science.


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Yeah, it should prevent it from meltdown, but letting it reach that temperature couldn't be doing the cell any good.

You could get a temperature controlled soldering iron or something of that nature, set it to some temp higher than the trip point, say about 140 degrees F, and place it on the temperature sensing tabs to heat up the thermistor while charging one cell. If you leave the adjacent bank open, you have more room to do it. Then see if it trips the charger with the overheat indication-
I don't think any of us are curious enough to try, however- I'll just take it on faith that it works, though I haven't seen it firsthand yet.


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 25, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I see this is being talked about on Steves Digi Cam with links back to here. I think only jedi master from the camera forum has given this a try. The rest are cpf people.


----------



## stringj (Feb 25, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Regarding the temperature protection circuitry, it works. I don't have one of those infrared temperature guns (yet), but I have taken AA cells straight from my Energizer 15 minute charger and placed them in this charger. After setting a charge current I watched some TV. A little later I checked on the charge status and no current was flowing. After touching the cells I realized how hot they were (from the massive current from the Energizer charger) and set a fan blowing on the cells and the charger. Within a few minutes the charging resumed at the current that I had previously set. I can’t say at what temperature the circuitry cuts in and out, only that it does.

Jerry


----------



## JonSidneyB (Feb 25, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Thanks for that update stringj


----------



## mapson (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Yes, exactly what I noticed too, if I just take a recent charged battery and insert it in while it is still "hot", it may trigger the temperature safety sensor and cause the charging slot to temporary stop functioning until the battery cools.

[ QUOTE ]
*stringj said:*
Regarding the temperature protection circuitry, it works. I don't have one of those infrared temperature guns (yet), but I have taken AA cells straight from my Energizer 15 minute charger and placed them in this charger. After setting a charge current I watched some TV. A little later I checked on the charge status and no current was flowing. After touching the cells I realized how hot they were (from the massive current from the Energizer charger) and set a fan blowing on the cells and the charger. Within a few minutes the charging resumed at the current that I had previously set. I can’t say at what temperature the circuitry cuts in and out, only that it does.

Jerry 

[/ QUOTE ]


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

What kind of indication is there when it trips? Does it simply show zero charging current in that display mode, or is there some other overtemp indication?


----------



## stringj (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Zero charging current is the only indication I've seen when a cell is too hot.

Jerry


----------



## Wingerr (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

So I assume it will just continue charging when it cools back down below threshold, unlike the Maha 777, which terminates the charge cycle with the error indication.

Good to know, thanks-


----------



## mapson (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

IIRC, zero is what I saw, then it does continue with it's set function after it cools, it does not just terminate.


----------



## xiaotingle (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

So what's the final verdict out there guys? MAHA C401FS or the LaCrosse BC-900? What are the pros and cons of each? In the long run, which do you think is better?


----------



## xiaotingle (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Also can someone please explain to me the importance of the "Discharge" function in this new lacrosse BC-900 charger? Does this mean I should should use this discharge function everytime I recharge my batteries? Do all other battery chargers, specifically the MAHA C401FS also discharge the batteries first before recharging them? I mean if that's the only function that the Lacrosse charger has that the MAHA doesn't and if the function isnt even that important,do you think I would be better off saving a couple of bucks and order the MAHA instead? Thanks


----------



## Wingerr (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

No, you don't need to use the discharge function every time. It's only used to help restore capacity of cells that haven't been cycled fully for a while.
I don't have the 401, but I've bought three other Maha chargers, and if your charging is primarily AAA and AA's, I'd pick this one hands down. The Mahas I've bought all had some quirks and problems charging, which haven't surfaced on my BC-900 so far. The metering capability, refresh, test function are big advantages. It's not just a charger, it's a test instrument- 
Even if you don't make any use of those features, it seems to work more consistently doing regular charging as well. It can be just as simplistic by just putting in the batteries and ignoring all the mode buttons.


----------



## eluminator (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
No, you don't need to use the discharge function every time. It's only used to help restore capacity of cells that haven't been cycled fully for a while.


[/ QUOTE ]

Newly bought cells need this treatment often. Failing to check this, and fixing if necessary, can easily lead to a damaged cell through overdischarging, when two or more cells are used in series.

This is why I always have a charger that can check for this and fix it.

My favorite charger is the C Crane, for this reason. The La Crosse seems to have two advantages over the C Crane. It can show cell capacity, and it charges cells independently, not in parallel as the C Crane does.

That said, I'm going to wait awhile before buying one of these. The advantages of the C Crane are, it's cheaper, it will charge C and D cells, it seems simpler to use, and it's been around awhile and hopefully has had it's quirks corrected. On my old C Crane, I had to fix the quirks myself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have had a desire to measure cell capacity for a long time. So I might buy one of the La Crosse chargers someday, just for that purpose.


----------



## Wingerr (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

The independent cell charging is such a huge advantage that I wouldn't even consider series multiple cell chargers in the same category. Without that feature, you can easily start to get drift in capacities between two cells of a set, and you won't know about it until you finally wonder why the batteries poop out so quickly, or the weaker cell gets damaged. You'd have to have a separate set of test equipment to check for it, and jump through hoops to verify it. 
It would be nice if it had C/D capability, but unless it's a detachable adapter of some sort bringing out the overtemp sensor, I'd prefer the more compact size. 
I don't think $50 is that much more expensive, considering what it offers. 
And if you don't really want to bother with the extra modes, it's really just as simple to use- plug in the batteries, ignore everything else, wait for the display to say "Full"- pluck out batteries, done. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## mapson (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I just had my first "bump" in the road with the BC900, I had an Energizer 2500mah new, just purchased recently for testing with this charger and use. The charger did not "see" it, I checked the voltage and came up with 0.2xx volts. Luckily I have my Energizer 30min charger and placing it in that, was able to accept it. After a few minutes, I put the battery back into the BC900 and it is now charging as I type.

So don't give up or toss out the other chargers yet, assuming my experience is not an isolated one.


----------



## eluminator (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
The independent cell charging is such a huge advantage that I wouldn't even consider series multiple cell chargers in the same category. ) 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if you are refering to my post or not, but if so, be assured that I wouldn't charge in series either. The CCrane doesn't series charge. It charges cells in parallel. 

I hope you aren't misled by independent charging either. Just because a charger, any "smart" charger, says the cell is charged, doesn't mean it has full capacity. When cells are new, or have been abused, the "smart" chargers will sense the voltage drop and claim they are charged, long before they reach full capacity. 

Only a voltage test will determine if they have full capacity. It's quite common for new cells to be less than 10 percent charged when the charger says they are charged. This applies to every charger I've seen, and I've seen many. This almost undoubtedly applies to the La Crosse also.

Actually the CCrane, by charging multiple cells in parallel is more immune to making this mistake than chargers that charge independently.


----------



## Wingerr (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

[ QUOTE ]
*mapson said:*
I just had my first "bump" in the road with the BC900, I had an Energizer 2500mah new, just purchased recently for testing with this charger and use. The charger did not "see" it, I checked the voltage and came up with 0.2xx volts. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't be surprised about that, since it probably has a threshold for detecting the presence of a cell. I'd be more curious why your new cell only read .2xx volts.
My Maha puts out a small periodic voltage pulse while in standby to check for this; I don't know if the BC-900 does. Possibly it just detects a voltage threshold directly without pulsing it. With my Maha, I've had a few instances where it wouldn't start charging either, when cells that were too deeply discharged were put in, but after leaving it in a while, it would start charging, because the pulses effectively trickle charged it back above the kick on threshold. When I get a chance, I'll check if this is the same for the BC.


----------



## Wingerr (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

[ QUOTE ]
*eluminator said:*
I'm not sure if you are refering to my post or not, but if so, be assured that I wouldn't charge in series either. The CCrane doesn't series charge. It charges cells in parallel. 


[/ QUOTE ]
Parallel is better than series in that regard, but it still can mask an imbalance between cells, and you'd really have no way to tell without running an independent check on each.
The main benefit of the parallel over independent charging would be the cost; functionally, the independent type is best. 


[ QUOTE ]

I hope you aren't misled by independent charging either. Just because a charger, any "smart" charger, says the cell is charged, doesn't mean it has full capacity. When cells are new, or have been abused, the "smart" chargers will sense the voltage drop and claim they are charged, long before they reach full capacity. 


[/ QUOTE ]
That's certainly true, just as seeing the "charged" indicator come up doesn't tell you if the cell is a true 1200 or 2300mAh battery. As I said before, if the BC-900 says you put 2100mAh into the cell, and it says it's full, it doesn't necessarily mean that's the real capacity of the battery, only the charge put into it. What you can get out WILL be less; it's just a question of how much less. That's where the benefits of the test and refresh modes come in, so you can get that information.


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## Phaserburn (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Just bought some Energizer 2500s and slapped them on the La Crosse for an initial charge up. 3 of them drew around 700mah, the other drew 2300mah. ??


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## Dukester (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

[ QUOTE ]
*Phaserburn said:*
Just bought some Energizer 2500s and slapped them on the La Crosse for an initial charge up. 3 of them drew around 700mah, the other drew 2300mah. ?? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Are these brand new right out of the package cells? If they are maybe they haven't been cycled enough ?


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## rdshores (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phaserburn said:
Just bought some Energizer 2500s and slapped them on the La Crosse for an initial charge up. 3 of them drew around 700mah, the other drew 2300mah. ?? 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Are these brand new right out of the package cells? If they are maybe they haven't been cycled enough ? 

Put 4 cells in the charger and set the current to 1000ma on all cells. Then set the mode to REFRESH. Let the La Crosse do it's thing. Report back here with the final Mah capacities then.


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## powernoodle (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Ordered my JSB La Crosse today. Going to need the thing to feed my first Mag85! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif

best regards


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## mapson (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

After you cycle them a couple of times, don't be surprised to see 2700-2800 numbers like I did.

[ QUOTE ]
*Phaserburn said:*
Just bought some Energizer 2500s and slapped them on the La Crosse for an initial charge up. 3 of them drew around 700mah, the other drew 2300mah. ?? 

[/ QUOTE ]


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## Brock (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

[ QUOTE ]
*xiaotingle said:*
So what's the final verdict out there guys? MAHA C401FS or the LaCrosse BC-900? What are the pros and cons of each? In the long run, which do you think is better? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I would spend the Extra $10-15 and get the La Crosse. You can use it exactly like the 401 if you want. You can just put the cells in and touch no buttons and it automatically charges them at 200mA, nice and safe. Or you can run the refresh, test or discharge modes if you want. So you get a lot for the extra $. It already helped me find a bad batch of 2100mA cells, I was baffled as to what was going on, only to find out 4 of the eight were only at 700mA. I ran them through the refresh cycle on the La Crosse with no better results.

The only real drawback I can think of, for me anyway, is it runs on 3 volts at what, 3 amps? The 401 runs on 12v so I can run it from my battery bank or car.


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## Wingerr (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Why not just get one of those small power inverters if you need to run it from your car? The smallest 70W job will do the job handily, and takes up very little more space. I thought it was a drawback at first, but realized I've never ever used any of my chargers in my car, so it didn't matter to me.

I checked the monitor output of the charger, and it sits at 3VDC while waiting for you to stick something in. It doesn't pulse while waiting, which is probably more energy saving. Not sure what the source impedance is of the standby output, but if you left your really deeply discharged battery in there long enough, it might eventually rise above the kick on threshold.
It charges with a pulsed output, about 50Hz and about 3uS pulse width, for the curious. Peak voltage I saw was about 1.8V during the pulse.


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## Brock (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Ya, I am not worried about running it in the car, I have inverter in both so I can get 120 easy. It is really more just the efficiency of charging, the 401 it is powered directly from my 12v battery bank which is charged via solar. I am sure running an inverter to get it up to 120vac and then running it back down to 3vdc will use more power, just in the conversion (most on the inverter side), then the 401 uses to actually charge the batteries. In defense, the La Crosse supply seems pretty efficient, at least it doesn't get warm like most wall warts do. Hey I wonder if it would not like mod-sine of a cheaper inverter, hummmmm...

No big deal really. I should just find a 12vdc to 3vdc, 3amp supply. Heck even a 1.5 amp should power it though the 500mA mode.


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## Wingerr (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I think it'd be extremely tolerant of any kind of waveform you throw at it, considering the wide range of input voltages and frequencies it accepts. Should be no problem.
Might have to be more careful with what you feed it if you use your own power supply though; something nicely regulated would be the safest way to go there.


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## Brody (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I thought I would post some of my refresh results from some of my NIMh batteries:
Sony 2300s: 2.25a 2.27a 2.32a 2.30a (about 4 months old)
Jetcell 2400s : 2.47a 2.52a 2.41a 2.50a (about 1 yr old)
Sunpak 2300s: 1516ma 1483ma 1474ma 1502ma (2 month old)
Sanyo 2300s: 2.38a 2.40a 2.40a 2.41a (3 month old)
Sanyo Industrial 2500s: 2.56a 2.56a 2.55a 2.53a (1 month old)
Duracell 2300s: 2.22a 2.28a 1793ma 1818ma (6 month old)
Energizer 2300s: 2.33a 2.40a 2.48a 2.39a (1 yr old)
Energizer 2500s: 2.50a 2.48a 2.62a 2.58a (6 month old)
La Crosse 2000s: 1786ma 1802ma 1860ma 1849ma (2 month old)
La Crosse 700s: 652ma 660ma 648ma 654ma (2 month old)
Energizer 750s: 750ma 762ma 758ma 748ma (1 yr old)

The bottom 2 types are AAA batteries, the others are all AA batteries. I dont think I will ever get Sunpak batteries again.


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Brody, at what discharge rate did you get your capacities?

Bill


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## Brody (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I was using discharge rate of 350ma for the AA batteries, and a discharge rate of 250ma for the AAA batteries.


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## JonSidneyB (Mar 9, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Brody,

Thanks for making that list. This is starting to open my eyes to batteries. At least we can get a good relative comparison.


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## paulr (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Since we're talking about other chargers too, anyone got an opinion of the Eveready CH15MN? As posted to another thread, it's available as low as $25 including four 2200 mAH AA cells, and it's a 15 minute charger that supposedly can charge any NiMH cell, not just special cells like the Ray-o-vac system. Here's the data sheet:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/ch15mn.pdf

It runs on 12 volts directly and comes with a 12 volt, 4 amp wall wart that might be good for running a Triton (for some applications) in addition to running the Eveready charger.


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## stringj (Mar 10, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

http://tinyurl.com/5q89r

Jerry


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## JonSidneyB (Mar 14, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I think I will try some off brand batteries sometime and see how they do.


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## hadu (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

I bought a La Crosse BC-900.
I would like to know:
When I charge my batteries with my GP loader how can I check the job done by GP with my La Crosse?


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## Wingerr (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

[ QUOTE ]
*hadu said:*
When I charge my batteries with my GP loader how can I check the job done by GP with my La Crosse? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Use the "Discharge Refresh" mode to determine the discharge capacity of the cell. 
You just need to make the reading after it completes the first discharge cycle, but before it goes through the discharge/charge/discharge cycle, because it'll then update the mAh reading with the second discharge cycle, which is based on the charge put in by the BC, not the first charger.
You should have ample time to look at it without the babysitting you otherwise need to do, if you were to use the straight Discharge cycle.


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## N162E (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

[ QUOTE ]
*Wingerr said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*hadu said:*
When I charge my batteries with my GP loader how can I check the job done by GP with my La Crosse? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Use the "Discharge Refresh" mode to determine the discharge capacity of the cell. 
You just need to make the reading after it completes the first discharge cycle, but before it goes through the discharge/charge/discharge cycle, because it'll then update the mAh reading with the second discharge cycle, which is based on the charge put in by the BC, not the first charger.
You should have ample time to look at it without the babysitting you otherwise need to do, if you were to use the straight Discharge cycle. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Much easier way-Take them right off your GP and put them on the LaCrosse. The LaCrosse will top them off and tell you how much it put in. The "Refresh" cycle on the LaCrosse will run charge-discharge cycles until it sees no improvement in capacity.


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## Brock (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Anyone seen this La Crosse BC-900 Charge*

Continuing on to this thread


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