# Surefire M4 = Wall of light?



## Monocrom (Oct 6, 2007)

I need a quality, high-output, light that can sometimes be used for several minutes of constant-on. The M4 is at the top of the list. Wish the runtime was better than 20 minutes with the 350 lumens HOLA. But that's liveable. (M6 has a grip just too thick for me). 

Only thing is, I don't know if the M4 puts out a wall of light, or if it leans more towards throw. (Looking for a wall, as my last requirement). Also heard that 17650s will fit in the M4.

If any M4 owner could help me out with answers, I'd appreciate it.


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## KeyGrip (Oct 6, 2007)

It's got a turbohead straight from the factory, so it'll be a thrower through and through. However, running a P91 on 2x 17670 makes one fantastic wall of light.


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## LED61 (Oct 6, 2007)

If you want a wall of light, I'd recommend a Wolf Eyes M300 Lion. It is very high power, high color temperature for an incan, nice spot and flood, and rechargeable with e 18650's and can run for one hour. I really like mine. The SF turboheads as mentioned are excellent even throwers.


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## Qoose (Oct 6, 2007)

You could also look at a FM24 beam diffuser. Not sure how well it works on a large bezel though.


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## Monocrom (Oct 6, 2007)

LED61 said:


> If you want a wall of light, I'd recommend a Wolf Eyes M300 Lion. It is very high power, high color temperature for an incan, nice spot and flood, and rechargeable with e 18650's and can run for one hour. I really like mine. The SF turboheads as mentioned are excellent even throwers.



Took a look at the M300 on the Wolf-eyes official site. Seems to be an excellent light, except for one thing...... The barrel looks just as fat as the one on the Surefire M6. Honestly, I doubt I'd be able to get a solid enought grip on the light without dropping it. Still, I appreciate the help and the alternative suggestion. 

If my hands were only larger, and my fingers longer; I'd probably take the M300 over the M6.


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## cue003 (Oct 6, 2007)

The FM24 works beautifully. I used one on my M6 and it was great. Easy flip up to throw beam with your thumb whenever needed.


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## BSBG (Oct 7, 2007)

The turbohead gives the M4 a moderate throw (compared a smooth reflectored Magmod) with a good amount of spill. A Beamshaper would give you that flood effect at the expense of throw.

Yes, 17670s work fine with the 9v bulbs - MN15, MN20, or MN16 (some have reported very short life with the MN16, but it is oh-so-white while it lasts).

In my opinion, the MN61 does not give enough gain in output over the MN60 to make it worthwhile, considering the battery consumption.


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## Monocrom (Oct 7, 2007)

cue003 said:


> The FM24 works beautifully. I used one on my M6 and it was great. Easy flip up to throw beam with your thumb whenever needed.



Now that is indeed good news. All I'd need is that beamshaper and I'd get the best of both worlds. Just need to make sure it'd fit snugly onto an M4.

Thanks for the info.


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## Size15's (Oct 7, 2007)

I use the M6 far more than the M4... The M6 gives far better quality of light output for longer compared to the M4.


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## 2low (Oct 7, 2007)

Size15's said:


> I use the M6 far more than the M4... The M6 gives far better quality of light output for longer compared to the M4.




Man, that is one sweet collection! ....Lotsa $$$$


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## Monocrom (Oct 7, 2007)

Size15's said:


> I use the M6 far more than the M4... The M6 gives far better quality of light output for longer compared to the M4.


 
I'm sure it does, but I'd be constantly afraid of dropping it. The M4 is (literally) a better fit in my hand. Also, found an old thread on CPF where one member mentioned that the M6 doesn't work well for Constant-On. Any truth regarding the statement that the M6 gets so hot after 11 minutes of constant-on, that it shuts itself off to pevent damaging the light? 

Not trying to spread rumors. Just trying to find an answer to that question. 

(I will admit, it's nice knowing I'd be able to use both 123A cells and rechargeables in the M4; without modifying the light).

BTW, thanks for the cool pics.


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## Size15's (Oct 7, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> Any truth regarding the statement that the M6 gets so hot after 11 minutes of constant-on, that it shuts itself off to pevent damaging the light?


Whilst it has been reported to have happened, I believe it is extremely rare, to the point of it not even being anything close to an issue.
I use the M6 constant-on plenty and have never experienced a thermal shutdown.

Use high quality USA-made SF123A batteries (or Duracell DL123A's) in your high output SureFires and you're go to go.

Al


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## souptree (Oct 7, 2007)

I chose the M4 over the M6 because I use it backpacking with extensive night hiking, and the 4 cell light requires carrying less weight in batteries, as well as less weight in the light itself. I agree with the previous statement that the MN61 isn't worth the runtime sacrifice over the MN60, unless maybe you had some kind of rechargeable setup going. The M4 LOLA is just stunning. I love mine!

I have read many statements that the M6 output is even better, and I do want an M6 as well. But not for a weeklong backpack unless I have a Sherpa! If anything, as time goes on, I am tending more towards 1 cell lights. But those high output incans are hugely satisfying to wield!


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## Monocrom (Oct 7, 2007)

Size15's said:


> Whilst it has been reported to have happened, I believe it is extremely rare, to the point of it not even being anything close to an issue.
> I use the M6 constant-on plenty and have never experienced a thermal shutdown.
> 
> Use high quality USA-made SF123A batteries (or Duracell DL123A's) in your high output SureFires and you're good to go.
> ...


 
Always good to get an experienced opinion from someone who owns and uses a high-output light. 

Thanks for the response.


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## jumpstat (Oct 7, 2007)

IMO, instead of the M4, you be better of with an M3/M3T or M6, If you are into SF primaries. With M3/M3T, you would still be able to go the rechargeable route if you wish, not so for the M4 or M6, but you do get the most output on the M6 which comes in a much compact package than the M4.


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## Dizos (Oct 7, 2007)

I can vouch for the use of the diffuser on the turboheads. It provides a great area light when diffused and throw when flipped up. The diffuser design includes a cam so that you are assured of a tight and reliable fit. 

I am using a LED insert from yclo with mine so that I get the added benefit of hours of runtime at the expense of some lumens. It is still very bright with amazing throw.


LED module installed





1 meter beamshot without the diffuser





1 meter beamshot with diffuser


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## Monocrom (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks for the pics, Dizos! 

Especially the beamshot ones.


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## zx7dave (Oct 8, 2007)

Both the M4 and M6 are awesome lights. for a lot of daily use I would recommend the M4 running the rechargeable setup mentioned earlier. won't be as much light as the M6, but much cheaper to operate a lot. I also don't care for the large grip size of the M6, but it is a unbelieveable light for such a compact package. the M4 is the light that gets the most use for me.


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## Per Arne (Oct 13, 2007)

Hi,

How can the (surefire) P91 lamp fit in M4's turbohead, see earlier post?

What lamp configuration could work in an M4 body with M3's head? 

Thanks!

PA


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## Size15's (Oct 13, 2007)

Per Arne said:


> How can the (surefire) P91 lamp fit in M4's turbohead, see earlier post?


The P91 Lamp Assembly for the 9P/C3/G3 (etc) can not fit in the Millennium TurboHead or any other SureFire TurboHead. To which earlier post are you referring?



Per Arne said:


> What lamp configuration could work in an M4 body with M3's head?


Using three-SF123A batteries and a Z20 battery spacer you can use the MN10/MN11 Lamp Assemblies in the M3 (Z46) bezel on the M4 body:


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## Per Arne (Oct 13, 2007)

The P91 was mention in post #2... and I was just wondering how that could be possible since I know it wouldn't fit or maybe someone had come up with something new...  

I would have liked to see an M4 which could used the Z44 head and 12V lamp module...


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## Size15's (Oct 13, 2007)

Per Arne said:


> The P91 was mention in post #2... and I was just wondering how that could be possible since I know it wouldn't fit or maybe someone had come up with something new...


Ah. Thanks. It appears to me that the mention of using the P91 is separate from the discussion of the M4 - it was an aside. You are correct - there is no way to use the P91 on the M4 (unless there is an after-market adapter I'm not aware of). 



Per Arne said:


> I would have liked to see an M4 which could used the Z44 head and 12V lamp module...


You can put a Z44 (standard "6P" bezel) directly onto a 12PM body.


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## nzgunnie (Oct 14, 2007)

Per Arne said:


> Hi,
> 
> How can the (surefire) P91 lamp fit in M4's turbohead, see earlier post?



It can't, but I believe it was mentioned as an ideal lamp to provide the wall of light originally requested. Of course it would require a 9P and z44 bezel to run it.



Per Arne said:


> What lamp configuration could work in an M4 body with M3's head?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> PA



Either the MN10 or MN11 M3 lamps will work in the M4 body, _if_ you use 17670s to power them. This is actually rather a good set up (as is the MN15 or MN16 in the M4 with the turbo head).

Size 15 is a bit of a Surefire purist, he doesn't discuss non Surefire aftermarket options!


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## Size15's (Oct 14, 2007)

nzgunnie said:


> Size 15 is a bit of a Surefire purist, he doesn't discuss non Surefire aftermarket options!


Well that's because I have no first-hand experience using combinations of aftermarket rechargeable batteries and SureFire components etc.
That and I don't care for rechargeable batteries in general.
So I leave it to those who can share their experiences in the aftermarket arena.

Al


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## ugrey (Oct 17, 2007)

Hey Per Arne, Look at my list of lights for a SF 12P. I have two. It can be done. They are second only to my M6.


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## Per Arne (Oct 17, 2007)

I once used SureFire _9P-BK_ + _A19-_BK one cell extender + _Z44-BK_ Bezel Head and _Z41-BK_ Twisty Tailcap with _G&P12V_ and _Lumens Factory 12V_ xenon lamps. Since I wanted the main body to be in one piece (fewer O-rings and leaking problems) I got the G&P's X-12 but uses SureFire Strike Bezel and the Z41. The drawback is that it isn't a "real" SureFire :naughty: 

I don't have an 12PM body and I recon it would be difficult to find one in good condition...

Since I have got an spare M4 body I would have liked to have an slim head on it instead of the TurboHead... I could use my M3 Strike Bezel with MN10/MN11 and 2x 17670 rechargeables or one dummy and 3x 123A cells, but not 4x 123A cells, which I would prefer. 
The drawback useing an dummy-cell is that it could get lost  while changeing batteries in an "hot" situation, or if I had to lend it over to somebody else, for any strange reasons :thinking:, and then i'll bet it would get lost 

And by the way, rechargeable batteries needs to be recharged ... therfore I prefer useing lithium batteries 

PA


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## Size15's (Oct 17, 2007)

Per Arne said:


> I once used SureFire _9P-BK_ + _A19-_BK one cell extender + _Z44-BK_ Bezel Head and _Z41-BK_ Twisty Tailcap with _G&P12V_ and _Lumens Factory 12V_ xenon lamps. Since I wanted the main body to be in one piece (fewer O-rings and leaking problems) ...


I would be significantly more concerned with the increased resistance reducing the peak output and runtime performance as a result of there being more joints in the body then is really needed. However, one extender is not going to break the bank - two extenders and I can visibly see the difference in side-by-side comparison


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