# PM45M-PDF Mill



## darkzero (Nov 14, 2012)

Not hard to tell that I've been wanting a mill of my own. So I called Matt & simply mentioned my first name & that I purchased a lathe from him back in Nov '09. Totally unexpected, he remembered that I was from Socal & that I was from CPF! Matt's awesome!

So I ordered a PM45M mill with power down feed & X Axis power feed. 

Then for the heck of it I asked if the micro carriage stop from a 1440 would fit my lathe. He said it wouldn't fit but he did have them available for my lathe. Ok, "so I'll take one", asked him how much & he said he would just throw it in. Matt's awesome! Completed the order & then Matt asks if I need a vise. I tell him that I'm good, I won't need one or anything alse at this time. He then asks if I could use one & that it would be for free. "Sure, I definitely could use it!". So for being a repeat customer he threw in the $160 Package Option which includes the 4" vise with swivel base, 11pc R8 collet set, & a 52pc clamping set. Did I mention Matt is awesome? :twothumbs



*Today this truck shows up.
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*Driver gets in down one slope, then up the next slope into my garage, slipped him a $20 for putting a smile on my face.
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*Finally, a mill of my own!* 







*X Axis power feed. Hope it works ok?
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*Package Option that Matt hooked me up with.
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*Took advantage of the Halloween specials & got a package from GMT....5" vise, R8 1/2" chuck TiN coated jaws, R8 ER-16 collet chuck w/ slim nut (Rego Fix). Everything looks much nicer than I had expected!
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*Ordered a Bison R8 ER-40 collet chuck from Ajax, as usual dropped shipped from Toolmex but the chuck is branded TMX w/ the Bison P/N. Both the chuck & wrench are Poland. No big deal, it looks nice.
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*5" GMT vise next to the 4" vise.
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*Added power for the mill.
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It'll be a while before I can make chips. Plan was to not get the mill until Dec when I go on vacation. But it won't hurt to have it early.  And besides the stand got lost during the shipment so I can't start making the riser yet.

Thanks for looking! :wave:


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## darkzero (Nov 14, 2012)

Reserved


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## BVH (Nov 14, 2012)

A BIGG CoNgRaTs Will! I'll bet it's disappointing there's no stand! Should provide you with a lot of fun! Looking forward to some pics of your work.


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## StrikerDown (Nov 14, 2012)

Will, that looks like a real nice mill, congrats. 
I added the power to my X axis after turning the handle for about a year... wish I had bought it at the start. It really makes it a lot easier and the consistent speed makes for a better looking more consistent finish.
Have fun and keep the pics coming!


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## kuksul08 (Nov 14, 2012)

Let the creations begin  Awesome pictures. Do you plan on putting it on a bench or buying a stand?


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## darkzero (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks Bob & Ray. I usually don't do anything during the holiday season anyway but I hope the stand turns up soon so I can start on the riser. Picked up 10ft of 4x2x3/16W today. Then I can go borrow my buddy's welder & cherry picker.


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## precisionworks (Nov 15, 2012)

Couldn't resist a little PhotoShop :nana:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice grab on the mill, you'll be able to do ten times more than you could with only the lathe. Add a small surface grinder (like a Harig 612) & you'll be in Tool Heaven 

On the ER-40 collet chuck you may want to add a ball bearing nut - makes it a lot easier to torque up on bigger end mills, especially solid carbide. Don't know what you plan to do on collets but my (current) favorite is Techniks ... honest to God _this is the only Chinese tooling that I have & the only Chinese tooling that I recommend to my friends_ .

Techniks is made by SYIC in Taichung City, Taiwan. To quote from a thread on PM:



> Techniks is made in China and is a unique situation in that a group of Americans actually built a business in China and force tighter part controls on their stuff than most. I have heard from several that this is why they dominate in several fields. Cheap and high quality.



Best source I've found is All Industrial Tool Supply on eBay ... a 24-piece set is $140. You will not believe how nice they are until you run them & check TIR - they are as dead nuts accurate as Royal, Lyndex, etc. Money back guarantee if you don't like them but I have yet to send one back. 

Another must have IMO is an ER-16 extension collet chuck to run in your ER-40. Lets you get into places with smaller tooling & does a much nicer job on little shanks like 3mm (1/8"). Try to tighten down a 3mm shank in an ER-40 collet & you'll find that it works poorly if at all. 

http://stores.ebay.com/allindustria...x=0&submit.y=0&LH_TitleDesc=1&_sid=1025773236


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## PhotonFanatic (Nov 15, 2012)

Great buys, Will. With your imagination and skills, we'll have plenty to look forward to soon.


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## darkzero (Nov 15, 2012)

Stand arrived today. Very happy Nicole tracked it down so fast. Had only had a dent on one side but I'm not worried about it. Two doors, rear houses the coolant pump/tank assy.

My question is that I got 3/16" wall tubing, will I be ok or do I need to go with 1/4" wall? Weight is 950 lbs. listed on the site.


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## gt40 (Nov 15, 2012)

Congrats. I think you will be really happy with the mill. I have had a LOT of fun with mine. 

Barry is right on the techniks and er collet chuck. I have a Bison with the techiks collets becaus of him and I am super happy with this setup. Also second on the ball bearing nut.

On the stand, I have my stock one but a bigger stand is a plus though. It is scary getting on there as it is so small. Being in socal, if you ever want to add belt drive vfd or convert it, you are welcome to check out my pm45 conversion. 

Anyway, enjoy!


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## precisionworks (Nov 15, 2012)

darkzero said:


> ... I got 3/16" wall tubing, will I be ok or do I need to go with 1/4" wall?


Either 1/8" or 3/16" is more than adequate as long as it's designed to transmit the load to the stand. 3/16" is pretty easy to weld & I use a bunch of square & rectangle tubing.


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## darkzero (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks Barry & Fred! 




precisionworks said:


> Couldn't resist a little PhotoShop :nana:





You know, I thought about that when I was taking that pic! That driver was awesome. Both times he showed up within only 10 mins into his targeted 2 hr window.





precisionworks said:


> On the ER-40 collet chuck you may want to add a ball bearing nut - makes it a lot easier to torque up on bigger end mills, especially solid carbide.



Thanks for the recommendation. Where do I puchase the Lyndex BB nut? And is there such thing as a BB nut for the drawbar or something like that? The drawbar I received looks like junk. I'd like to make one or purchase a high quality replacement if they exist for a RF45.




precisionworks said:


> Don't know what you plan to do on collets but my (current) favorite is Techniks ...Best source I've found is All Industrial Tool Supply on eBay ... a 24-piece set is $140.



Techniks is what I'm looking to get & is why I choose not to go with the entire Bison set. All Industrial Tool Supply is my second choice as I'm in CA & I'll get hit with taxes. I have not seen a price of $140 for a 24 piece set from them though in the las couple of months. Are you sure that's right? If yes, link please!  Not even the 10pc ER16 set is that cheap. 13pc ER40 set is $234 shipped + tax.

I'm planning to buy the 13pc ER40 set from Hemly Tool Supply for $228 shipped but I may throw them an offer.


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## darkzero (Nov 15, 2012)

gt40 said:


> Congrats. I think you will be really happy with the mill. I have had a LOT of fun with mine.
> 
> Barry is right on the techniks and er collet chuck. I have a Bison with the techiks collets becaus of him and I am super happy with this setup. Also second on the ball bearing nut.
> 
> ...



Thanks! Will defintely keep you in mind. I'm just above you in the Valley. I heard about the belt drive conversions but never looked into it, I think that's what's common with the CNC conversions? How loud is the gear drive? As long as it's not louder than the lathe I'm good. Vfd would definitely be nice though.





precisionworks said:


> Either 1/8" or 3/16" is more than adequate as long as it's designed to transmit the load to the stand. 3/16" is pretty easy to weld & I use a bunch of square & rectangle tubing.



Cool, thanks again Barry! :thumbsup:


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## precisionworks (Nov 15, 2012)

My bad, looked at the wrong set. 13 piece set is $233.95.


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## darkzero (Nov 15, 2012)

I want a bigger bandsaw!


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## gt40 (Nov 16, 2012)

Posted by darkzero:


> How loud is the gear drive? As long as it's not louder than the lathe I'm good. Vfd would definitely be nice though.



The gear head is just a bit loud. Changing the gear oil didn't really do a lot but it got a little quieter after it broke in. FYI, mine would get hot after a while at top speed. After upgrading to abec7 bearings and belt drive, I can run it at 7700 rpm and it is cool and quieter than stock at 500 rpm was.


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## Lyndon (Nov 16, 2012)

What's the advantage of using an R8 collet chuck with ER collets vs just using R8 collets? This has always puzzled me.


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## precisionworks (Nov 17, 2012)

Lyndon said:


> What's the advantage of using an R8 collet chuck with ER collets vs just using R8 collets?



R8 collets are fine for less demanding jobs that don't require dead nuts concentricity nor very high forces - holding HSS end mills (1/2" or under) while machining easier metals is where they excel.

Carbide shanks are both very hard & most have a super smooth surface (better than 10 micro inches). They require greater gripping force than HSS & IIRC the ER collet generates about 400% more force than the R8. The ER collet offers far less TIR & runout is the greatest killer of the tips & edges on carbide tooling.

ER collets are not perfect. An inch collet must be used with an inch shank & a metric collet with a metric shank to assure best fit, grip & lowest runout. The ER-40 grips well down to about 1/4" but below that an ER-16 does a much better job. 

FWIW all the ER-40 sets include very small collets (1/8" & 3mm) that are next to worthless when gripping a 1/8" or 3mm shank. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, does not work worth a crap. Smaller shanks require smaller collets & the ER-16 is a good choice.


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## PEU (Nov 18, 2012)

Congrats Will, don't forget a face mill 


Pablo


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## precisionworks (Nov 18, 2012)

PEU said:


> Congrats Will, don't forget a face mill
> 
> 
> Pablo


+1

The hot ticket today for a smaller machine is the low force high shear design, made by a bunch of companies. The APKT & similar inserts are another to look for. Seems like Glacern makes some nice ones.


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## darkzero (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks Pablo.

What, no one uses fly cutters anymore? :laughing:

Should I just stick with a 2.5" FM? Is 3" too big for my mill's HP?


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## precisionworks (Nov 18, 2012)

2.0"-2.5" is about all the load that the R8 taper wants to handle. The motor can easily turn a larger face mill but the spindle is the limiting factor. For any R8 machine a combination of shallow DOC (.050"-.100") plus high SFPM (700-800) and fast feed works really well for mild steel. When the chips are sapphire blue, hotter than Hell & flying 15' you are in the sweet spot.


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## gt40 (Nov 18, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> 2.0"-2.5" is about all the load that the R8 taper wants to handle. The motor can easily turn a larger face mill but the spindle is the limiting factor. For any R8 machine a combination of shallow DOC (.050"-.100") plus high SFPM (700-800) and fast feed works really well for mild steel. When the chips are sapphire blue, hotter than Hell & flying 15' you are in the sweet spot.



FYI, I found iso 30 taper spindles our machines for just over a 100 bucks so you might want to think about this before you buy everything r8. 30 taper spindle has been successfully converted to auto draw bar and tool changer On the otherhand, r8 has too but there are issues. On the other hand, it is cheap as dirt...

r8 vs 30 taper:







actual 30 taper spindle:


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## precisionworks (Nov 18, 2012)

Quite a few knee mills can be purchased either as R8 or ISO30. ISO30 is a small step up from R8 - larger contact surface than R8 but still using the same smaller spindle bearings as the R8 so it isn't a free lunch. To run larger tooling (most any larger tool) requires a 40 taper machine.

The big advantage to ISO30 is that the taper is self releasing & that makes it nice for use with an ATC or power draw bar.


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## darkzero (Nov 27, 2012)

Finished the riser last week, paint for the riser & stand is now drying. Hopefully I'll be able to get the mill up on it this weekend. (Sorry for the cell phone pics)


I have very little experience welding which was 8 years ago building a gate so I have no idea what I'm doing to trust 1000+ pounds sitting on it. So I just tack welded it all together & took it to Jaytech Welding in Chatsworth. Couldn't be happier with how the welds came out & I don't even have to grind them down. 

Tack welded.






Then welded by a pro.






Here's how it will look.












I'm still going to use MLS-1000s but here how big the MLS-2000 is compared to the MLS-1000. Pucrhased them back in Feb for something else & did not use them so I kept them around just in case. They're too big & there's still one more size larger.


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## TranquillityBase (Nov 28, 2012)

Nice job on the base fab! Looks like a nice clean tig weld.


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## StrikerDown (Nov 28, 2012)

Dude that is TIG welded... you better not have to grind the welds down.

Very purdy!


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## darkzero (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks! Awesome, so it it is TIG welded? 

I used an inexpensive flux MIG welder to tack it all together which splattered like crazy. I tacked the inner ends. The first shop I took it too that holds a number of certifications asked me if I wanted MIG or TIG. I said MIG is fine & they asked me if I would be grinding down the welds myself. Told them yes & he quoted me $65. Just a little bit higher than what I wanted to pay so I went to the next shop that I knew of down the street. After the owner looked over for a few minutes with some uh's & hmm's he told me $50. "Great, where do you want me to put it?"

Picked it up the next day & I was very happy when I saw it! Got home, looked at it some more then called the owner to thank him again for the nice work he did. At first I thought it might be TIG welds as there was virtually no splatter but then I thought it was just the experience of a pro welder using a nice "real" MIG welder.


They welded right through my big ugly tack welds like nothing.






And yes, I didn't touch those nice welds, there was no reason to grind them down.


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## StrikerDown (Nov 28, 2012)

I haven't used flux core but I hear it's more prone to spatter plus cleaning up the flux. I have always used straight CO2 but I hear CO2/argon mix gives even less spatter, not that I get much spatter to begin with when the amps and wire feed speed is right, generally real clean. 
Looks like a nice job you got!


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## gadget_lover (Nov 28, 2012)

I can confirm that co2/argon has almost no splatter.  It's real nice. It makes even my work look decent.

I wonder, with the weight coming from the top like that, does it need much more than good tack welds? I've noticed some commercial units that were only welded here and there. 

It does look real pretty. Almost a shame to paint over it.

Daniel


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## precisionworks (Nov 29, 2012)

The MIG weld above was done with .035" wire & 75/25 Argon-CO2 (pretty much the standard mix in small shops). Big shops eliminate the Argon & just run CO2 - cheaper, hotter, faster travel speed, greater penetration.

The bead above shows just a couple of spatter balls. I usually spray the area with anti-spatter & that makes cleanup a lot faster. When everything is right a MIG weld looks pretty good but never has the smooth appearance of TIG.



> ... with the weight coming from the top like that, does it need much more than good tack welds?


Probably not but most pro shops over weld everything. Much cheaper than a lawsuit from under welding.


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## StrikerDown (Nov 30, 2012)

Nice weld there Barry... Looks like a stack of really really thin dimes!


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## precisionworks (Nov 30, 2012)

Thank you for your kind words Ray. Making a nice looking MIG weld is ten times easier than doing the same with TIG - I only wish that my TIG welds look like those on Will's stand.


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## StrikerDown (Nov 30, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> Making a nice looking MIG weld is ten times easier than doing the same with TIG


Very true!




precisionworks said:


> I only wish that my TIG welds look like those on Will's stand.


Ditto!


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## gkemper (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm thinking about getting one of these aw well as a PM1236 Lathe. Looks like they are 4-8 weeks out though.

Keep posting pics as you go along. I'd really like to see more of the mill itself.

Gary


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## darkzero (Dec 4, 2012)

I had to move the lathe half a ft to the left to make room. Moving it by myself by pushing only was interesting. Moved the mill into place on Friday. Took me & my buddy 6 hours! Lots more work than the lathe, the lathe was easy, this mill had us thinking & paranoid at times. We used the same hoist as we did for the lathe but the legs were not wide enough to clear the riser when the mill was hoisted up. We ended up removing the head & set the clolumn/base assy into place using rollers on the pan. I sealed the pan to the base the night before with RTV silicone so it didn't move out of place. We built a crate/stand for the bottom of the head out of wood, which we used as a lifting point, & set it on the table then used the table to manuever back into place.

On Saturday I trammed the head, put the wiring back on, & rewired for 220v. Then I found out there was a small colony of big weird looking beetles living inside the column! Them damn things were nasty looking & fat. Good thing none of them decided to pop out as we were moving the mill, I freakin' hate bugs!! I don't think those things were supposed to be in the US. But I took care of them all using a shop vac, a hammer, & my Bug-A-Salt gun. :laughing:


I'm pretty happy right right now. 







The power feed is nice but I wish it was 220V so I could power it off the mill. Any way to convert it without having to wire in a 4th wire to the outlet?






Limit switch for the power feed.


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## darkzero (Dec 4, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> Thank you for your kind words Ray. Making a nice looking MIG weld is ten times easier than doing the same with TIG - I only wish that my TIG welds look like those on Will's stand.



Yup very nice! And I wish I even knew how to make a complete MIG weld that long to actually hold two pieces of metal together!


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## StrikerDown (Dec 4, 2012)

Will, 
Very nice set up, you should have fun!

As far as welding check out:
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/


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## sanddan52 (Dec 4, 2012)

Nice looking setup, similar to mine except they are Enco branded.

Where did you get the speed handle for your vise? I have the same Glacern vise, a very good choice.


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## darkzero (Dec 5, 2012)

StrikerDown said:


> Will,
> Very nice set up, you should have fun!
> 
> As far as welding check out:
> http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/



Thanks Ray!




sanddan52 said:


> Nice looking setup, similar to mine except they are Enco branded.
> 
> Where did you get the speed handle for your vise? I have the same Glacern vise, a very good choice.



I got it from ebay seller summit-engineering.


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## gkemper (Dec 6, 2012)

Very cool Setup! I just put a deposit on a PM1236 today and it should ship week after next. I'll have to wait until the end of January for the PM45M.
I currently have a 10" Atlas lathe and a Taiwanese mill/drill, both acquired over 20+ years ago. The mill sucks because of the round column. You have to
re-zero every time you moved the head up or down.

What is the reason for the added base? Height, Stability, both or some other reason?

Using ER collets I found that with the tool extended so far from the spindle, with the added length of the tool holder, I ended up getting a lot of chatter
and a bad finish due to deflection. This was on a full sized Bridgeport also which is a lot more riged. What you might lose in concentricity you more then make up in rigidity.
That has been my experience anyway.


I'd be real interested in finding your results moving the head up and down. Does it stay zeroed or just how much does it move.

Gary


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## darkzero (Dec 6, 2012)

gkemper said:


> What is the reason for the added base? Height, Stability, both or some other reason?



Yes, all of that & more. I'm not a tall person but I still felt that the base was too short. I don't want to be bending over constantly at the table. With the riser & the feet at their minimal height it's pretty much perfect for me. I also wanted a wider stance & the rubber feet keeps it planted (not sure if it would move easily just sitting on the bare metal base). I grabbed the head & shook it pretty hard, it doesn't move. I can rock my lathe easier than the mill. Also, that area of the garage is not flat, the right rear corner has a very noticeable high spot so I needed the feet to level it out. 




gkemper said:


> I'll have to wait until the end of January for the PM45M.



I was also looking at the manual IH mill which is essentially a RF-45 clone with larger castings & bigger table. They state Made in the USA which is misleading but the actual mill is not. They look very nice & I really wanted one but I choose to go with Matt & I'm glad I did.


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## precisionworks (Dec 7, 2012)

gkemper said:


> ... Using ER collets I found that with the tool extended so far from the spindle, with the added length of the tool holder, I ended up getting a lot of chatter and a bad finish due to deflection. This was on a full sized Bridgeport also which is a lot more riged. What you might lose in concentricity you more then make up in rigidity...



I've not used an R8 collet in six or seven years, switched to ER-40 at that time. The biggest advantage for the ER is minimal runout with carbide tooling (& I have no HSS tooling for either the lathe or mill). Both solid carbide & inserts are intolerant of runout/vibration/chatter & test after test show the ER beats the R8 hands down. It's important to remember that cutting tool life is reduced 10% with each additional 0.0001" TIR. Said another way, if the R8 has 0.0005" more runout the life is one half that of using the ER.

Whenever possible the tool is set up short for rigidity. Quite a few milling ops don't allow a short setup & that's where the extended collet chuck can save the day. Shown below is my "short" extension - a 0.125" shank is gripped in an ER-16 collet & that 3/4" shank is gripped in an ER-40 collet. The longer extension (about 2" more) has a 1" shank. These tiny tools see a lot of time in Ti-6-4 & they last an incredibly long time. This setup is used all the time in mold shops where deep cuts are common.


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## gkemper (Dec 7, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> I've not used an R8 collet in six or seven years, switched to ER-40 at that time. The biggest advantage for the ER is minimal runout with carbide tooling (& I have no HSS tooling for either the lathe or mill). Both solid carbide & inserts are intolerant of runout/vibration/chatter & test after test show the ER beats the R8 hands down. It's important to remember that cutting tool life is reduced 10% with each additional 0.0001" TIR. Said another way, if the R8 has 0.0005" more runout the life is one half that of using the ER.
> 
> Whenever possible the tool is set up short for rigidity. Quite a few milling ops don't allow a short setup & that's where the extended collet chuck can save the day. Shown below is my "short" extension - a 0.125" shank is gripped in an ER-16 collet & that 3/4" shank is gripped in an ER-40 collet. The longer extension (about 2" more) has a 1" shank. These tiny tools see a lot of time in Ti-6-4 & they last an incredibly long time. This setup is used all the time in mold shops where deep cuts are common.



I guess if you're working with such small endmills, there would more concern about the endmills themselves deflecting rather the collet. My experience has been with larger (.375 and up) endmills removing a lot of material.


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## precisionworks (Dec 8, 2012)

gkemper said:


> I guess if you're working with such small endmills, there would more concern about the endmills themselves deflecting rather the collet. My experience has been with larger (.375 and up) endmills removing a lot of material.


The ER-40 was initially purchased so 1" solid carbide end mills could be run. 






For any work 1" or under a solid carbide tool is run (or a 1" inserted end mill) & above 1" goes to a face mill. In a job shop it hard to tell if you'll need big or small tooling & the ER does a nice job with all sizes. 

In solid carbide tooling deflection shows up as either short tool life or chipped off tips. If neither are happening then the setup is workable.


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2012)

My mill originally had a DRO installed but since I ordered it without they took it off. Matt offered me an unbelieveable deal on the 3 axis DRO that came off my mill & I'd be an idiot for passing on such a steal. Better for me as all I had to do is bolt it back on & align it. And I'll be able to just change the display later.


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## gkemper (Dec 8, 2012)

darkzero said:


> My mill originally had a DRO installed but since I ordered it without they took it off. Matt offered me an unbelieveable deal on the 3 axis DRO that came off my mill & I'd be an idiot for passing on such a steal. Better for me as all I had to do is bolt it back on & align it. And I'll be able to just change the display later.



That's very cool!

The z-axis looks like it reads if you move either the entire head or just the spindle!

Is this correct?


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2012)

gkemper said:


> That's very cool!
> 
> The z-axis looks like it reads if you move either the entire head or just the spindle!
> 
> Is this correct?



The Z readout is only for the head/column which doesn't seem all that useful & is a pain cause the handle to move the head is on the left side. I do have a Mitu scale for the quill but I'm waiting for some parts to arrive in order to finish that.


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## darkzero (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks to Mark (gt40) I now have a Glacern 2.5 FM & a Criterion boring head. Mark also hooked me up with his old stand which I'll put to good use as a rolling table/cart. No sense in letting this one getting scrapped. Thanks again Mark for the entertainment today.


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## gt40 (Dec 9, 2012)

Will:

It was nice to meet you in person. I have always admired your work and thoughtful posts. I hope the tools work well for you.

Mark


darkzero said:


> Thanks to Mark (gt40) I now have a Glacern 2.5 FM & a Criterion boring head. Mark also hooked me up with his old stand which I'll put to good use as a rolling table/cart. No sense in letting this one getting scrapped. Thanks again Mark for the entertainment today.


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## precisionworks (Dec 9, 2012)

darkzero said:


> I do have a Mitu scale for the quill but I'm waiting for some parts to arrive in order to finish that.



The quill DRO is absolutely essential if you ever do critical depth milling. No way to miss depth with that installed.



> ... Glacern 2.5" FM & a Criterion boring head...


Nice stuff. The high shear FM can be run in aluminum with all the rpm you have, takes little power & leaves a fine surface finish. Nothing else even comes close to Criterion for boring - used Criterion beats new Chinese ten to one.


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## StrikerDown (Dec 9, 2012)

And a DRO... now I'm really Really REALLY jealous! Congrats Will!


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## darkzero (Dec 10, 2012)

gt40 said:


> Will:
> 
> It was nice to meet you in person. I have always admired your work and thoughtful posts. I hope the tools work well for you.
> 
> Mark





StrikerDown said:


> And a DRO... now I'm really Really REALLY jealous! Congrats Will!



Thanks Ray! It was not in the budget right but at that price there's no way I could pass up on a deal like that. I'm really happy I have it now but I haven't even bought collets yet! :laughing:

Mark, it was great meeting you too & thanks again. I'm just disappointed that I didn't get to check out your ride, both of them! After seeing your web page for the monster I'm even more mad! I used to work a race shop so I love that type of stuff although I haven't kept up with it anymore.




precisionworks said:


> The quill DRO is absolutely essential if you ever do critical depth milling. No way to miss depth with that installed.
> 
> Nice stuff. The high shear FM can be run in aluminum with all the rpm you have, takes little power & leaves a fine surface finish. Nothing else even comes close to Criterion for boring - used Criterion beats new Chinese ten to one.



The FM works great, chips were flying all over the place facing a 3.5x2.5 block of 6061. I can tell that the 45° was a great choice & works very well, & that's not even with all inserts intact (a number of them were chipped/broken but hey they were there & I could resist trying it out).

Yeah couldn't pass up on the Criterion. I remember the differences using no name import & Criterion in shop class. I took it apart, cleaned & relubed everything & it's very smooth. Even though it's smaller & older model, it's still nicer than a new China one. Mark even threw in a Mesa boring bar so I'm happy.


----------



## gkemper (Dec 10, 2012)

darkzero said:


> The Z readout is only for the head/column which doesn't seem all that useful & is a pain cause the handle to move the head is on the left side. I do have a Mitu scale for the quill but I'm waiting for some parts to arrive in order to finish that.



When you get around to installing your z-axis readout check out what this guy did:

Here and Here


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## darkzero (Dec 16, 2012)

The drawbar that came with my mill is a piece of junk. The 7/16" thread is crooked, wavy, way undersize, & has flat crests so it doesn't thread into an arbor smoothly & caused the whole draw bar to wobble. It works but I wanted to make a replacement for it. 

Actually, my first attempt was using 1018. I have no idea where I got this piece (must be the local hardware store) but it was so bumpy, when I was cleaning it up, it didn't like the follow rest rubbing against it & off to the scrap bin it went.

This is right before it went . I don't like those bushings on the follow rest so I ordered some roller replacements for it.






Here's what I started out with, 1/2" 1144 & hardened flange nuts.






Threaded the 7/16"-20.






Then threaded M10 & M12. This is the first time I have single pointed metric threads. It sucks not being able to use the half nuts & thread dial.






Here's the replacement next to the old. Luckily for me the 1144 bar I got was undersize so it just barely fits through my spindle, no need to turn it down.






Turned down the flanges on the nuts & here I could tell they were case hardened. The M12 nut (19mm hex) was turned down so the spline wrench could pass over it. The M10 nut (17mm) was turned down so the 19mm wrench could pass over it. I also faced the bottom of the M12 nut's flange to ensure it was nicely perpendicular to the thread. I'm using a double sided 17mm x 19mm ratchet wrench.











I only made it halfway with a cobalt drill, had to use a carbide drill to break through the hardened surface, then I was able to drill through the rest. Just got me some PEC edge finders & with the DRO finding center was quick & easy. (PEC is low budget & mostly made in USA, not much talk about them but I've been pretty happy with all the PEC stuff I have so far)






Cut a roll pin down to size & pressed it in.











Here's the new one next to the old one. I'm very happy with the way it turned out. Very smooth & no more wobbles!


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## PhotonFanatic (Dec 16, 2012)

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the purpose of the roll pin?

Nice work, as usual.


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## darkzero (Dec 16, 2012)

PhotonFanatic said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but what is the purpose of the roll pin?
> 
> Nice work, as usual.



Thanks Fred. I originally wanted to make it with just one long hex like a BP drawbar or with the second nut & a knurled end for grip. My mill does not have a spindle brake. The two nuts allows the drawbar to be loosened or tightened without having to lock the spindle, although I do have a cheap homemade spindle wrench that I got off ebay. With the second nut I can also adjust for different length R8 arbors if needed. I assume R8s follow a standard but with the few R8s that I currently have they do vary slightly in length & thread depth. Not a big deal as long as I catch enough threads but at least I have that option.


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## precisionworks (Dec 17, 2012)

FWIW ... power draw bars are available for Bpt mills & almost every one is based on an impact wrench:






Most instruction manuals call out 40 lb/ft of torque as being correct for the R-8 (depends on grade of steel and hardness but 40 works even with low grade bolts). I use a 3/8" I-R 212 impact to tighten or loosen mine, give it about a one second trigger to tighten. No need to lock or hold the spindle with an impact. 

YMMV. Be sure you have a decent draw bar to start with if you decide to use an impact & don't use one larger than 3/8". A good 3/8" impact will go way up on torque, north of 150 lb/ft, so only trigger for a second. Surprisingly the threads show no signs of wear, perhaps because the draw bar is genuine Enco


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## wquiles (Dec 18, 2012)

WOW, nice setup Will


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## TexasLumens (Dec 18, 2012)

Danged Nice Work! That drawbar will stay with you awhile. !! :twothumbs

Dan


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## StrikerDown (Dec 18, 2012)

Hey Will, You do nice work indeed!

I like that two nut setup. My RF-31 has a single nut pinned to the draw bar. The Chinese pin was the first thing to shear off, I think about the third time I tightened it up! It also is not threaded on the bar so it has the tension pulling the R-8 plus the torque from tightening it. Crappy design if you ask me. The solid staked in pin seems to be holding for now!

Could you have used SAE threads and nuts? I think that's what I'm going to do, then maybe the Bport draw bar wrench I have will fit!

Looks like another project on the horizon. Have to wait until I move though. I had to disconnect the lathe form the power panel and reconnect the unused dryer circuit so the inspector wouldn't have a coronary! My new house complete with 20 X 35 detached shop won't be ready until mid Feb! :devil:


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## darkzero (Dec 20, 2012)

Thanks Will, Dan, & Ray! 



StrikerDown said:


> Could you have used SAE threads and nuts? I think that's what I'm going to do, then maybe the Bport draw bar wrench I have will fit!



Yes, I could have used SAE threads & nuts, it would've made it much easier too. I'm not used to threading without using the halfnuts & I don't like that. Only reason I went with metric is so I could make use of an individual ratching wrench I had that is 17mm on one end & 19mm on the other end for the drawbar. IIRC BP drawbars are 3/4" hex so you could use it with a 19mm hex also.

Congrats on your new home!


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## darkzero (Jan 1, 2013)

I received the bracket from Matt last week that comes on the non power downfeed model so I was able to finish my quill DRO installation. Man does life suck without it!









Here's what I started out with. Rather than using a long bolt with a nut on the other end for the bracket clamp, I tapped threads on one end & drilled the hole larger on the other end for the bolt to pass through.






Here I am starting on the mount. I miscalculated & ended up not having to make it as big as I originally thought but at least I didn't have to start over.











Here I am making a 1" x 0.1" washer for the M6 bolt.






The finished mount.
















I get a full 5" of quill travel. Can't wait to put it to good use!











I found a pretty great match for paint for my PM1236 in a rattle can by accident. I was trying to match the paint for the mill & surprisingly it matches my lathe pretty damn good. This is what I used to paint the quill bracket. Just thought I should share.











Thanks for looking!​


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## StrikerDown (Jan 1, 2013)

Looks like this add on is up to your usual excellent standards! The DRO/Z was the best thing I ever could have done to my Mill/Drill The down feed micrometer really sucks on mine. 
Nice work!!

Edit:
Thanks for the tip on the paint, it looks very close to my RF/31


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## darkzero (Jan 1, 2013)

Thank you very much Ray!


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## darkzero (Jan 3, 2013)

Am I supposed to lubricate the quill periodically? There's like light oil or something on it now. Do I just use way oil on it or do I use some type of grease? Is Vactra 2 fine or does it need a thicker way oil? For grease I only have Mobil multi purpose grease, Mobil SHC-32, & Super Lube on hand but I'll buy whatever is recommended.


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## themayor (Jan 3, 2013)

http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_blog/?product=bridgeport-milling-machine-lubrication-service-pack


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## darkzero (Jan 3, 2013)

themayor said:


> http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_blog/?product=bridgeport-milling-machine-lubrication-service-pack



Thanks!

Didn't expect to use DTE Heavy/Medium but I have that so I'm good.


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## darkzero (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm not a big fan of the gib locks that came on the mill. They feel really cheap cause they are. Couldn't find any suitable off the shelf replacements, everything has handles that are too long & I did not want the risk of breaking the handles if the hit the front of the base when moving the Y axis. Thought about ordering replacements from a Grizzly machine but they don't stock them, they're kind of pricey, & not sure what size they are anyway.

I picked some up that are the perfect size but aren't available in the size stud I need. So I also picked up some dog point set screws & went to work.


My stock levers.











Rethreaded the set screws to fit the new handles.











Aren't they purdy? They're powder coated, adjustable, & they're the perfect length so there's no risk in hitting the base when the table is moved around.





















I'm very happy with them. I also inserted ball bearings into the holes before putting them on to prevent only one side of the dog point from contacting the gibs. If you shine a light down the holes you will see what I mean. Lock up feels so much better now.

If anyone is interested, these are the parts that I used:

Mcmaster:

6848K126 EachMetric Die Cast Zinc Adjustable Handle, M6 X 1 Threaded Hole, 9mm Thread Depth92905A3271 PackAlloy Steel Extended Point Set Screw, M8 Size, 50mm Long, 1.25mm Pitch


Shortened the set screws 6mm, threaded M6 x 1 thread 8.5mm long. I used 1/4" bearing quality hardened balls _(be sure to measure first, it will be a lot of work to get them out if they get stuck & I don't want to be the blame if it were to happen to someone, use 7/32" if you want to be safe). _Since I used the balls to contact the gibs, dog point set screws weren't necessary, the idea came to me when I went to install the new handles.


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## darkzero (Jan 24, 2013)

Some had asked about my stand riser elsewhere so just in case anyone else in the future might be interested in it......


_My stand is about 16" x 28" so I made the riser 1/4" wider on all sides. I used 4 x 2 x 3/16 wall tubing.
_


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## darkzero (Mar 1, 2013)

Been busy with builds on the lathe so sadly I haven't got to make anything with the mill yet other than some minor personal work here & there. But I've still been busy tooling it up. Figure I should update here too.


I had originally bought an Indicol but after using it one time I did not like it so I immediately sold it.







I have a couple of Noga mag indicator holders which I love so I decided to get me a Noga for the spindle. I like this so much better even though it has to mount in the spindle & not around it. Much more solid & easy on the fingers.
(I already trammed directly off the table, just used the 123s for the photo & see if my readings were consistent)












Scored me a pretty much brand new Blake Co-Ax!












Edge Technology makes great quality products! I decided to get a couple of work stops from them. The lady who helped me over the phone was very friendly & they delivered fast. 

Their Vise Jaw Stop. Inexpensive & works great, a pretty handy little tool to have. It's designed so the stop pin sits below the jaw's surface.






Their Pro Mill Stop. They have a few different vise stops but I decided to go with the table mount. This sucker is beefy as hell & works great!












When I saw this protractor made by Bridge City Tools I wanted one but found out it was discontinued quite some time ago. I was able to score a very nice one on ebay. Picked up a blow molded case for it to protect it from damage. Not sure how useful it really may be for what I was thinking but I'll find out one day.


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## darkzero (Mar 1, 2013)

These are the readings I got for my spindle speeds using a Monarch Pocket-Tach 100. YMMV


240V 60HZ - Actual
Projected
RPM
1
2
3
1
2
3
LOW
121
215
360
90
210
345
HIGH
691
1220
2039
670
1180
1970


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## darkzero (Mar 1, 2013)

Not sure if this has been mentioned before.....

I currently have a Easson ES-8A DRO display on my mill. The ES-8A is what Matt has been recently offering with his lathes & mills, I'm not sure if he still offers Sino but it doesn't seem like it. 

One cool feature that it has is an axial speed display function that can be enabled for each axis like found on most the higher end DROs & CNC machines. My lathe DRO does not have this feature (not an Easson) but not sure if it would be as useful as on the mill.

The X axis power feed allows you to get consistent finishes. With the speed display on the DRO you can get even greater consistent finishes on multiple parts. Even if you do not have a power feed the speed display would also help you turn the handles at a more consist rate as well as giving you an idea of your manual feed rate.

Since it's a digital display, it has a .25 sec delay to enable easier viewing on the eyes. Unfortunately it only displays in mm/min but it's better than nothing.

Again a cool feature that I really like but by next weekend this display will be getting replaced but not cause there's anything wrong with it. Hopefully my new one will have the same feature.


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## gt40 (Mar 4, 2013)

darkzero said:


> I'm not a big fan of the gib locks that came on the mill. They feel really cheap cause they are. Couldn't find any suitable off the shelf replacements, everything has handles that are too long & I did not want the risk of breaking the handles if the hit the front of the base when moving the Y axis. Thought about ordering replacements from a Grizzly machine but they don't stock them, they're kind of pricey, & not sure what size they are anyway.
> 
> I picked some up that are the perfect size but aren't available in the size stud I need. So I also picked up some dog point set screws & went to work.
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting these with mcmaster part numbers. I ended up using them for my adjustable vfd motor mounts on the conversion. You are right btw, they really are nice.


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## darkzero (Mar 5, 2013)

gt40 said:


> Thanks for posting these with mcmaster part numbers. I ended up using them for my adjustable vfd motor mounts on the conversion. You are right btw, they really are nice.



No problem Mark! How's the mill doing? Anything new since the last time I saw it?


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## BVH (Mar 5, 2013)

Will, I don't see any provision for the new handles to be able to be pulled out and re-positioned on the set screw so that in they can be moved out of the way of moving parts after tightening? Such as for the "Y" axis lock in the second to the last pic above. Maybe I'm just not understanding what I'm seeing. Two of my Grizzly handles have already begun rounding on my "Z" axis lock set screws.


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## darkzero (Mar 6, 2013)

BVH said:


> Will I don't see any provision for the new handles to be able to be pulled out and re-positioned on the set screw so that in they can be moved out of the way of moving parts after tightening? Such as for the "Y" axis lock in the second to the last pic above. Maybe I'm just not understanding what I'm seeing. Two of my Grizzly handles have already begun rounding on my "Z" axis lock set screws.



They are adjustable. They're the same type of handle I used for my carriage lock, just not made by Kipp. I specifically did not want handles any larger than these so they would not have clearance issues with any chance of getting damaged. None of the handles hit the base & can be turned freely. I take some more pics at different angles.


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## BVH (Mar 6, 2013)

OK, some additional pics would be nice. Guess I'll place an order for some to get them coming.

EDIT: No pics necessary, see them on McMaster and it's clear now.


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## BVH (Mar 6, 2013)

They had my size in ready-made stud style, 6mm stud, 15 and 25 mm long. About $6.00 each. How easy is that!


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## darkzero (Mar 8, 2013)

The power "LED" indicator on my X axis power feed sucks. It's dim & isn't very noticeable from even a short distance so I keep forgetting to power it off. My power feed is 110v so for now it will powered seperate from the mill's power.


Here it is new.






(The following pics are from my cell phone)


A while back I tried to pull on the "LED" to see if I could pull it out without disassembling the unit. Well that wasn't a good idea & I broke the dome off.






Here's a close up of it on.






So I decided I was going to change it for a brighter LED with a wider viewing angle. The case was very easy to open up. To my surprise what I assumed was a LED is not a LED. It's a neon bulb with a long lens. No wonder it was so dim & makes sense for it's simplicity. 


There's no DC circuit in the power feed, doesn't need one so I decided to build a very simple circuit. There's a number of ways to power an LED from AC. Flicker shouldn't be too bad & efficiency is not a concern so again I wanted to keep it simple.

















I replaced the bulb with a header & the resistor closest to it with a jumper since I won't need it. BTW, that resistor is 33Kohm & drops voltage to 62V for the neon bulb.











It works!






Potted the bottom of the board to insulate the connections & mounted it inside the case along with a low profile diffuser lens for the LED.











Now the power indicator is much more noticeable & from a distance. I also replaced the original knob with a ball knob which I like much better. The original knob was pressed on so I had to cut it off & thread the shaft.


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## darkzero (Mar 8, 2013)

Once again Matt hooked me up & has made me very happy again! I can't emphasize how much I love to work with him & how great he is. He will ALWAYS get my business!

Been waiting very patiently for Matt to get the ES-12 graphical displays in. He was giving me an awesome deal on it but in the end he made a proposal again that I couldn't refuse & my invoice came out to $0!

As always, I have to say, Matt is the best!


































And since it's Easson, like the ES-8A I had, I'm pretty sure it would have speed readout too & without reading the manual yet I verified that it did.






Time to go read the manual......


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## gt40 (Mar 8, 2013)

Sweeet. hook up the servos


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## darkzero (Mar 28, 2013)

I got a couple of packages.....


Opened the boxes & found mini crates inside them, didn't expect that.






A 6.5" super spacer & tailstock. I was originally going to get a 6" super indexer to save storage room but because of the weight & size I decided to just go with a super spacer & get a rotary table later. Thought about an 8" super spacer but that's more weight than I want to deal with at home & I don't need something that big.

Looks like they were meant to be used with the super spacer on the right & tailstock on the left. But I'm used to using spacers & indexers on the left so that's how I will with these. I was thinking the tailstock could be reversed but it can't without modification. I may try that later or use it as is.






The mounting holes are too wide for my table so I figured I would just make a simple mounting plate for it. Picked up some remnant tooling plate at the local IMS. They have Mic-6 but it's more expensive & I figured this would be good enough for me. Guess I'll find out soon. 






I quickly found out the limits of my Y axis & I didn't have enough travel to machine the full length of the plate even with the column chip cover raised to clear the vise. Maybe if I removed the table chip cover also & X axis scale but I didn't want to do all that.






With what I had laying around, this is what I did. Worked better than I was thinking, I was hesitant to do so. Still need to mill the T-nuts for the clamping kit I have so I just went this route.






Two slots & two threaded holes later, here's what I ended up with. Seems it will work fine unless someone can make a better recommendation for me.




























Now I just need to take the chuck off, disassemble everything I clean up whatever is needed. Didn't think this 6.5" super spacer would be this big & heavy. I'm not sure I will even need this size of a spacer often. Too bad they don't make a 5" (or do they?).


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## precisionworks (Mar 28, 2013)

Hmmm ... I've seen that setup before :nana:






That's the 8" model, 165#, and the tailstock is meant for your 6" spacer. An aluminum block riser brought the TS up where it needs to be. Light is supported in chuck with a split delrin bushing bored to size & tail end runs on a delrin plug.



> ... need to take the chuck off, disassemble everything I clean up whatever is needed.


IIRC my chuck took about two hours to re-manufacture & two more hours were needed for the spacer. Might as well spend the time now & get it as it should be. The before & after difference is night & day.

Mine is the Phase II model 225-008. Chuck bore is 2.480" (63mm) so it's large enough to run most jobs. Even the 5C coffee grinder tube goes through & that's a real plus (internal expanding arbor supports the head):






Rather amazing that the micro-set chuck holds .0004" T.I.R. which is the identical spec for the Bison Set-Tru that's on the lathe. Enough burrs & sharp edges on the chuck to warrant a visit to the emergency room but those can be smoothed down pretty easily.

It's size XXXL & takes up a lot of table space but is easily removed (  ). It stays on the table 99% of the time. A couple of add ons that make use easier on the hands - the shift lever makes rotating the table a lot easier & the fatter grips on the wrench feel a bunch better than cold steel.


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## darkzero (Mar 28, 2013)

Awesome, good to see, & I'm glad cause I was starting to have second thoughts about not getting the super indexer. But only just a little & probably mainly cause I never seen/used one before.




precisionworks said:


> That's the 8" model, 165#, and the tailstock is meant for your 6" spacer. ):



That's exactly what I wanted to avoid since I don't need the bigger size. The 6.5" super indexer is 130 lbs, wasn't too excited about that either. The 6.5" super spacer is 80 lbs so that's manageable enough & I'll probably just get a 8" rotary table. Seeing your tailstock I guess I'll just use it as is. I like your shift handle. I've got some ball knobs laying around so I'll have to make one of those. Thanks.


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## darkzero (Mar 28, 2013)

Came across a Yuasa boring head. Threw a minimum bid on it & forgot about it until I got the winning bid email @ $125. But it had a CAT-40 arbor on it. A name brand USA R8 arbor like Criterion costs 75% of what I paid for the head so an import arbor will do just fine for now. I might get one from Michigan drill later if I need to buy an arbor for something else.

The Yuasa is a 3" so I'll probably rarely even use it but at least it's there if/when I ever need it.


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## precisionworks (Mar 30, 2013)

Dead nuts copy of the Criterion. Might even be nicer as the Japanese have a way of improving on superb quality USA tooling. Good catch


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## darkzero (Apr 4, 2013)

precisionworks said:


> Dead nuts copy of the Criterion. Might even be nicer as the Japanese have a way of improving on superb quality USA tooling. Good catch



Thanks Barry!


You guys are probably getting sick of me already. I've tooled up the mill pretty fast & comfortably now for what I need, all that's left is a RT unless I find other stuff to get (which is very likely). 

One last episode in my boring head adventures. I came across two Criterion DBL-202 auctions, both starting at $99. The later ending one was much nicer & newer. First one sold at the starting bid which I skipped, second one also sold at the starting bid which was won by me. Upon receipt, the BH ended up being much nicer than it appeared in the photos.

So now I won't need the even older square Criterion BH (DBL is discontinued now as well). I'll be swapping the R8 arbor over to the DBL-202 & off to ebay it goes.


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## darkzero (May 5, 2013)

My 6" tail stock is pretty much maxed out in height so I decided to get a 8" tail stock as I wouldn't be able to use the 6" TS with the rotary table I will get later. I didn't want to make a riser like Barry did with his. The 8" only costs $7 more than the 6" & both are well under $100 ea. I like the 8" better but it's a bit bigger than the 6" so time will tell if I decide to sell the 6" or just keep it since it didn't cost much. 

The 8" is nice cause it has a removable center but what is not mentioned anywhere I can find, there's no way of removing the center once it's seated good in the taper. So before I used it I took care of that by milling a slot for a drift key.


----------



## wquiles (May 6, 2013)

Very nice Will


----------



## precisionworks (May 6, 2013)

> The power "LED" indicator on my X axis power feed sucks. It's dim & isn't very noticeable from even a short distance so I keep forgetting to power it off.


Hmmm, mine was first turned on in 2003 & has never been turned off. Cannot imagine how much that cost in electric charges :nana:


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## darkzero (May 7, 2013)

wquiles said:


> Very nice Will



Thanks Will!


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## darkzero (Feb 27, 2014)

darkzero said:


> I had originally bought an Indicol but after using it one time I did not like it so I sold it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As I posted earlier in this thread, I had previously bought an Indicol but I didn't like it so I sold it. The arms never really tightened up very firmly unless you really cranked down hard on the thumbscrews. Got the Noga, it's solid but there are times I wished I didn't have to remove the tool & swap in a collet to use it.

I came across this video by oxtools A Noga and Indicol marriage. I thought that was a great idea so I decided to make me one too.

But I didn't buy another Indicol, this time I just bought an import clone for less than $10. Rather than drill & tap a hole on the mount like oxtools did I made an adapter. Like oxtools this time I'm using the Noga arm with fine adjust unlike my Noga that mounts in the collet. I really like this setup but I won't be putting my other Noga into retirement.


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## darkzero (Mar 8, 2014)

My spindle light......

I came across one of those drill press quill LED lights. Saw that Tormach was selling their own version which they had Nichia LEDs installed & for cheaper than what other vendors were selling the regular one for. They appeared to be just typical T1 LEDs though (I didn't open it up to verify the size), there are 14 of them. It worked as intended but I just couldn't stand the very cool tint of the LEDs. I also didn't like how bulky it was as I couldn't use my spindle mount indicator holder with it very well. The magnetic switch with coil wire was kind of cool though.



















So I bought these angel eyes/halos LED rings to install in my trucks headlights so I can look just like BMWs!






YEAH RIGHT!  I returned the one from Tormach & decided to build my own. Been a while since I did a light mod but it really wasn't a mod as it all just went together with ease.


Here are the parts I used, the angel eye LED that I rewired, an AC to DC converter, & a lighted rocker switch.






I installed the AC to DC converter inside the control box which is being powered from the stock light's 24V circuit. It's connected to terminal 32 & the output of the white circuit breaker.






I choose a 90mm ring with 60 SMD LEDs so it would fit just over the bottom ring on my quill. Had to remove just a bit of the ID to fit & it snaps right into place. Although I didn't need it I added a bit of double sided tape just in case. Couldn't have asked for a better fit!











Installed the lighted rocker switch on one of the existing holes & the other hole for the wiring to the control box. I wonder what these two threaded holes are used for?

















I'm very happy with this setup, very slim profile, & now I can still use my spindle mounted indicator holder. 

Thanks for looking.


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## wquiles (Mar 8, 2014)

Looks awesome. I have been toying with doing something similar for a long time - I definitely like your setup. Who sells the rings you used?


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## darkzero (Mar 9, 2014)

wquiles said:


> Looks awesome. I have been toying with doing something similar for a long time - I definitely like your setup. Who sells the rings you used?



Thanks Will. The seller I used was three-tech which is JLC Lighting, there are a number of ebay seller accounts under JLC Lighting. I only used them because they were closer to me. There are lots of sellers on ebay who sell these in different sizes & colors, also cheaper if ordering from a China seller. Search "angel eyes" or "LED halos", these are used for those who do headlight conversions to try to mimic the early 2000s BMW headlights.

I was originally going to order from SuperBrightLEDs since they list full specs on them but they didn't have the size I wanted. You can buy them with or without the diffusers. Luckily the one I got wasn't a very cool tint.


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## wquiles (Mar 10, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Luckily the one I got wasn't a very cool tint.


That is what always worries me - to get a horrible tint 


I will measure the column on my mill and see what would be the best size. Thanks Will.


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## darkzero (Mar 11, 2014)

wquiles said:


> That is what always worries me - to get a horrible tint



No problem Will. Yeah, I do like cool tints but I don't like very cool tints. Even with flashlights I never got used to warm & neutral bins. My flourescent lights in my work area are 4100K and the lowest tint I could find in the size I wanted was 6000K so I was worried. But with the SMD LEDs that they used, the tint on each emitter are pretty consistent on both rings, they even matched the photos they had posted pretty well & you know how cameras can fool you on tint easily. Still it's a gamble on ebay cause who knows how many manufacturers make these as well as the sellers' descriptions.


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## BVH (Mar 11, 2014)

Will, I'm surprised you don't have 5000K tubes in your garage. For my eyes and well-being, the 5000's make me feel so much better and the color is "prettier" for my eyes. used t be hard to find them anywhere but in the last 3 years, there's easier to find. Home Depot carries them by the case. T-8's anyway. If you have enough of them and don't look up at them, it's like you've removed the roof of your garage, natural daylight.


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## darkzero (Mar 11, 2014)

BVH said:


> Will, I'm surprised you don't have 5000K tubes in your garage. For my eyes and well-being, the 5000's make me feel so much better and the color is "prettier" for my eyes. used t be hard to find them anywhere but in the last 3 years, there's easier to find. Home Depot carries them by the case. T-8's anyway. If you have enough of them and don't look up at them, it's like you've removed the roof of your garage, natural daylight.



Hey Bob :wave:

Well, everyone's eyes are different. Despite what people have recommended me for garage lighting I originally went with 5000K as that's what I thought I had on my bench. Turns out I had 4100K on my bench too. The hue 5000K gave me a weird feeling after a few hrs of working & colors were a bit washed away (not nearly as bad as 6500K) though. I tried to get used to the 5000K but after a week I swapped them out as I couldn't last long hrs with it. I've tried 4100K, 5000K, & 6500K, I like 4100K the most, I don't get that weird feeling & can work all day under that lighting. FWIW I'm using 4100K T8 Philips AltoII from Home Depot. Of course there's the specialty tubes but I wanted to go with something that was locally readily available.


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## darkzero (Oct 11, 2014)

Just a quickie....

When I got the mill I purchased one of those spline wrenches that some guy makes & sells on ebay. A few weeks ago I came across a "commercially" made wrench that was much nicer. To my surprise I found that LMS carries it. Even though I don't use it all that much I think it's worth the price, made in the USA too. Most of the time I just snug the draw bar by hand without even holding the spindle. But when I need to do some heavier milling I'll use the wrench & give it a quick snug.

Made by Luminar Products & it also fits Sieg X3 mills. Costs $20 & the "homemade" one on ebay is $10. I highly recommend the Luminar wrench.

Luminar Products website

Luminar spline wrench - LMS

ebay spline wrench


These 3 wrenches covers all my mill needs


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## darkzero (Oct 11, 2014)

Last year a member of another forum I'm on (GKemper here, MHRIP) asked if I wanted to go in with him on a set of T-slot covers. Well I never really thought much of them & just thought they might be cumbersome or something so I declined. He ended up getting them.

I can't say that I have ever seen anyone use them except Gary. Thought about just making a table cover like many do & it would have been cheaper. Thinking about it I kind of like the idea of individual slots being covered rather than the whole table & I don't have a habit of setting tools down on the table. So I decided to give them a try & bought a set earlier this year. Plus they have holes for coolant drainage so if/when I hook up my flood coolant these will be perfect. Recently I really got sick of cleaning the T-slots so I finally installed them.








Relieved the middle ones to clear the vise T-nuts so I don't have to worry about the vise being perfectly center on the table all the time.






I made sections so they would slip under the vise & so I could just remove sections when needed like for my work stop that I use quite often.












Well I'm pretty happy with them & sure makes clean up much quicker now. Too many damn colors!


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## darkzero (Oct 11, 2014)

Made a backplate to mount a 6.25" chuck on my 8" RT. Once again Matt gave me an unbelievable deal on a 8" Vertex RT earlier this year that I could not refuse (well I tried but he won). Like my ES-12 DRO display, I also got this RT for absolutely free.


Started with an 8" blank backplate from Grizzly (SouthBend branded "fine grain" CI, whatever that is).







Took sometime to rough it out as it was thick & 1/4" oversized (Ø)












I hate machining cast iron. Anytime I machine a lot of CI (or Ti) is when I really take the time to clean up after.







Bolt circles made easy, can't get any easier than with the ES-12's graphical display. 






































Thanks for looking! :wave:


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## wquiles (Oct 12, 2014)

Nice work as usual Will


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## precisionworks (Oct 12, 2014)

Nice work on everything Will.

If you spend much time running a mill with a power draw bar you'll never again want to twist a wrench. The only issue is the $600-$800 cost. Essentially they consist of a 3/8" impact that engages the nut when needed ... so I simply use my I-R 3/8" air impact but a 12v or 18v battery impact works just as well. Never have had the R8 taper spin & mine no longer has the key.



> Recently I really got sick of cleaning the T-slots


I want those.






The Blake Co-Ax is a tool I use often. It's a hundred times easier than clocking an Interapid, much faster, and it allows me to easily check for runout up & down the depth of the bore. I don't use the rotation stop on mine either, quicker to hold the Blake by hand.


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## darkzero (Oct 12, 2014)

Thanks Will & Barry! 




precisionworks said:


> If you spend much time running a mill with a power draw bar you'll never again want to twist a wrench.



I never thought much of building a power drawbar, guess I really haven't got tired of the manual drawbar, yet. I don't mind it still. I did hate it on BPs & clones though since it was so high. On my mill not so much. I also removed that stupid R8 key (mine was just a dogpoint setscrew), it was annoying. I do have all my air tools from my automotive work days (IR for impacts are my preferred brand too) but I don't think my impacts will work with my double nut drawbar as easily. Maybe one day.




precisionworks said:


> I want those.



Enco only sells the 5/8" covers. I got mine (14mm slots) from Supra Machine Tools (importer/distributor for Acer machines) through ebay. Contacting them first is best though, even though they show quantities in their ebay listing they actually might not have it & have to order it which takes 4-8 weeks delivery. They will contact you if out of stock though once purchased.




precisionworks said:


> I don't use the rotation stop on mine either, quicker to hold the Blake by hand.



Yup, I was taught to use the rotation stop but quickly found it to be too time consuming to screw in the bar & set up a stop (even though I just used a mag base & a rod). I didn't even bother using it the second time I used my Blake. I really love using mine too, just need to get a longer feeler for it. I wanted to indicate of the register but didn't have a long enough feeler. I did quickly verify with an indicator & it was spot on with the bore since I machined them right after each other.


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## precisionworks (Oct 13, 2014)

darkzero said:


> ... just need to get a longer feeler for it. I wanted to indicate of the register but didn't have a long enough feeler. ...


Blake feelers are pricey, running $20-$26 each in steel tip & over $50 for carbide tip. They must think that anyone who drops $300 on the indicator set won't mind paying another $100 for four additional feelers. My friends give me grief for spending too much on the Blake but it's fully repairable when parts are needed: http://www.longislandindicator.com/p110.html

Being somewhat cheap (OK, really really cheap) I found a new set of feelers, Phase II brand, on eBay for $20. Turns out the OD is .005" too large to fit the Blake but a quick trip in the 5C collet chuck took care of that, using a .008" radius hi-pos insert:











The ones with shiny shank are Blake, dull looking shank are Phase II. My only gripe about the Blake short feeler is that when dropped in a mill slot full of chips & TapMagic they are difficult to find.


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## darkzero (Oct 14, 2014)

Thanks Barry, did not know that about the feeler sizes. I was just going to buy an import feeler too. Maybe I still will or just purchase an original Blake on my next order when there is a sale. I don't have the tip that's used for locating center punches & have never used one, never thought it would be useful. Have you used it, is it useful or no?


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## precisionworks (Oct 14, 2014)

I've never tried to use the Blake on punch marks but instead use this 45X center scope: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?...&PMKANO=26&PMKBNO=580&PMPAGE=10&PARTPG=INLMPI

It killed my soul to pay the $$$ but the scope has paid for itself many times over. Just last week I ran a 1/16" carbide end mill through the center of a broken screw measuring approx. 0.100" ... easy work with the scope but hard to do any other way. Focus distance is only 1" & FOV is just 1/8" so setup is a little tricky - a 3/8" ER16 collet on a straight shank extension is a must have. Here's a better description: http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=6953

Imported but excellent quality. Discussion thread from PM: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/centering-scope-202586/ My only regret was waiting so long to buy one.


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## BVH (Oct 15, 2014)

They are usually $244 but listed for $199 now on the Enco site. Looks like a very handy device. Use BBR21 for an additional 15% off. My total was $191 with shipping and that darn TAX.


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## wquiles (Oct 16, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> I've never tried to use the Blake on punch marks but instead use this 45X center scope: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?...&PMKANO=26&PMKBNO=580&PMPAGE=10&PARTPG=INLMPI
> 
> It killed my soul to pay the $$$ but the scope has paid for itself many times over. Just last week I ran a 1/16" carbide end mill through the center of a broken screw measuring approx. 0.100" ... easy work with the scope but hard to do any other way. Focus distance is only 1" & FOV is just 1/8" so setup is a little tricky - a 3/8" ER16 collet on a straight shank extension is a must have. Here's a better description: http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=6953
> 
> Imported but excellent quality. Discussion thread from PM: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/centering-scope-202586/ My only regret was waiting so long to buy one.



I still like my laser unit:






Useful to find centers and edges as well


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## darkzero (Oct 16, 2014)

Thanks Barry & Will. I wasn't actually looking for a method to locate center punches, I was just wondering specifically about the center punch attachment for the Blake since we were talking about coax Iindicators briefly. I'm perfectly fine with the locating methods I use on the mill.


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## StrikerDown (Oct 16, 2014)

Will,
Do you have a thread on using this laser unit?



wquiles said:


> I still like my laser unit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## darkzero (Oct 16, 2014)

I've always been curious about those laser edge finders as in how accurate & repeatable they are. I have one of those contact light up edge finders that I use when I don't want to mark a finish but the workpiece must be electrically conductive of course. It repeats well & is pretty accurate compared to my others. But I still prefer to use a good ol conventional edge finder or zig zags. I just never thought of trusting an optical measurement that wasn't under magnification. I guess it may just take practice?


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## precisionworks (Oct 17, 2014)

> I just never thought of trusting an optical measurement that wasn't under magnification.


That's exactly the reasoning behind the centering scope. It does two things nothing else will do:

Magnifies the work 45X
Provides a fine cross hair
The combination of both allows finding dead center on the smallest of parts. For larger parts with more easily found centers the Big Jump from Fisher Machine is my go to. For small parts the scope provides absolute certainty that the tool is dead nuts on center ±.0001" (.0025mm)


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## darkzero (Nov 2, 2014)

I have a PDF model which does not have a depth stop. In the past I would use the power down feed depth limit as depth stop but it's not designed to be used that way & since I know what components look like that allows it to work that way I didn't want to cause wear or damage from using it that way often. It doesn't repeat as well as I want anyway. Been wanting a strong solid depth stop so I finally made one.


Here's what I came up with & it works just as I hoped it would. I'm _very_ happy with it.







I used a Morton quick release quill stop that's made for BPs. Which means I used the same 1/2"-20 thread like on BPs. Here is showing the quill stop in action.







Here you can see how it's mounted. I probably went overboard on the thickness of everything but I want it to repeat well with no flex & is also why I decided not to use aluminum. And it does repeat excellent!







Quill fully extended.







I haven't decided if I will paint all these parts when I repaint the quill bracket. I kind of like it bare, maybe I'll just give them a final finish by hand. No rust issues here in Socal anyway.


The rest of the pics are just some WIP pics. I didn't take pics of every op & I won't post everything but you'll get the idea.

Machined the quill bracket on the lathe to ensure the top surface would be fairly square to quill.






Might as well do the bottom too.







Cleaning up the quill bracket.






















Verified how square it is, measuring to the table. I'm happy with that.







Working on the stop bracket.

















The head casting is not perfectly square as I needed it to be because of all the filler. It was about 1° off so to compensate for that I milled the angle using an adj angle block.












Working on the rod holder that mounts to the quill bracket.

















This is how my quill DRO used to mount. I kept that method the same but I went with a bigger bolt for for mounting the depth stop as you can see above, M6 to M8.







Also made a new mount & is why I cleaned up the cavity on the quill bracket, old vs new.











Thanks for looking!


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## gt40 (Nov 2, 2014)

looking sharp!


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## darkzero (Nov 13, 2014)

Made a couple of tramming adjusting aids, no more using a mallet to poud on the head to move it & worrying about movement when tightening the nuts (well in theory).

Haven't tried them yet but I will soon. Hopefully they'll be ok, if they flex I can always make them beefier & left room for bigger bolts, I think they'll be ok though.


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## gt40 (Nov 14, 2014)

Nice job on the tramming blocks. Do you have any ideas for front to rear tramming? It is a pain on these machines...


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## darkzero (Nov 14, 2014)

Thanks Mark. I did have an idea from making column adjusters but I don't think I will try it. Same concept, using set screws to lift the front of the column with blocks attached to the front of the column. I was only thinking for the front as the heavy head tends to sag forward. I shimmed the front of my column & have been happy with that, I check nod occasionaly & it's still spot on since the day I shimmed it.


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## darkzero (Jan 15, 2015)

Finally decided to to replace my stock phenolic/bakelite wheels that I've been wanting to do for so long. I used cast iron wheels by Flair. They weren't a bolt on solution so here's how I did it.


Stock:







New handwheels (I replaced the X, Y, quill, & handle for the Z).






WIP pics:

The revolving handles I used are 3/8-16" thread which the 6" handwheels come prethreaded for. My Z handle (head) is metric M10 so I turned down the threads, pressed on a slug, & single pointed the metric threads. Had to make a collet to hold the handle.






















I made the M10 thread longer than the 3/8" thread.







Installed.






Next was the quill fine feed. The 4" handwheel did not come prethreaded for the handle so I had to drill & tap the 1/4-20 threads. Bored the center to fit my quill feed shaft & drilled & tapped for the set screw.





















Next was to machine the X & Y handwheels. The new cast iron handwheels had a much larger hub dia than my stock ones so I machined them down. Also had to bore the centers (which were drilled way off center). Unmachined as received on the left.











Machined the drive to match my mill.











Finally, mounted.












My idea was to paint the center flat or semi-flat black. I may still do that, haven't decided yet. I really like the new handwheels and no more rattling from the damn stock handles when making moderate to heavy cuts.

Thanks for looking!


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## StrikerDown (Jan 16, 2015)

I bet your mill feels and runs so much better now!

Not kidding... The plastic parts on my mill always felt cheap. I'm guessing this gives your mill a much better feel now.

As always your work is impressive Will.


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## darkzero (Jan 16, 2015)

Thank you very much Ray. Yes it does feel much nicer now. The stock handles chip very easily. Although I never chipped them myself while on the mill, when I first received the mill, one was damaged. Matt shipped me out a replacement immediately but unfortunately it arrived damaged too. Finally the third one arrived in good shape.

Another thing that worked out great. The new handwheels are dished more than my stock ones. I use the protective cover for my table power feed limit switch. The cover would limit my Y-axis travel as it rubbed on my handwheel. With the new handwheels I have clearance so now I'm able to move the table all the way out to it's limit.













I'm glad that worked out cause I was planning to make an extension for the handwheel. This is the test piece I cut before machining the handwheels. I'm glad I no longer need it to make an extension.


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## wquiles (Jan 17, 2015)

Wow - very nice machining there Will


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## darkzero (Jan 17, 2015)

Tank you very much Will!


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## gt40 (Jan 20, 2015)

It looks really nice!


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## darkzero (Jan 21, 2015)

Thanks Mark!


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