# Updated! - Soon to be 130W+ 4200 output lumens RS623



## Delvance (Mar 21, 2006)

*RS623 13 cell DD 4000output lumens ?*

What is it ? A 3 2/3 D length [email protected] fitted with a Osram64623 lamp being overdriven in excess of 40%... below is a screenshot from Awrs excellent hotrater spreadsheet.







Current setup
-Borofloat lense
-KIU high temp kit/socket
-Tri bored 3D [email protected] host
-13 GP2000 cells
-Large hole cammed (sawn to camless) LOP reflector
-Bunch o' magnets
-Two "D" plates
-Osram HLX 64623 lamp
-FM 37mm extender

Well what can i say ? The Osram 64623 lamp is now being direct driven by 13 GP2000 NiMH cells hot off the charger. 140W+ and a calculated 4200 output lumens! It feels about 4000 too, squashes my 35W HID illuminator in bounce tests. I've already measured the amps drawn and it is almost 10A...i'd measure the volts at lamp too but last time i tried, it started smoking the probes of my DMM and that was at 12xGP2000 setup...so i'm not even going to try this time with 13cells...I might actually try 14 GP2000s in it once i get bored with the 13 cell DD :devil: 


Edit - 

Ok got a photo of the light in action at 140W+ config. It is being compared against a ROP that is running on 4x18650 LIons in 2S2P with a full switch fix so the ROP is no slouch either. 1 second photo.






And now the RS623


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## Flakey (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: Current hotwire project finished! 100W+*

im working on the same thing right now ... just waiting for my AWR hotdriver to finish it. MAG623 is the name i believe, as there are now 4-5 versions of the mag100 using the last 3 digits of the osram partnumber is how we differentiate.


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## missionaryman (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: Current hotwire project finished! 100W+*

break away from the norm and give it something truly Aussie, here's a few off the top of my head:

RooShooter 100
DunnyFinder 623
FunnelwebFryer 100

BTW are you using the stock switch?


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## Flakey (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: Current hotwire project finished! 100W+*

no way on the stock swich, this lamp pulls about 10 amps the stock swich would melt, a KIU high temp swich/socket is in use! sorry if im jacking your thread dev.


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## Delvance (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: Current hotwire project finished! 100W+*

Flakey, no problem at all  . What V do you intend to set the hotdriver at ? For awhile, i was actually thinking about using a 5D host with 15 CBP 1650's, but decided the light and the cell pack would be too large. Wonder what kind of output that would give though!  

I'm pretty sure this light is pulling more than 10A, and with the 12 x GP 2000s, this light is probably 130W+ easy! Gets hot very quickly.

Missionaryman,

Hahaha i love the names! Truly Aussie yup! Hows about Rooshooter623 ? RS623 for short. Rooshooter100 might be underselling this light lol.

It's 11:20am now where i am, once i get home. I'll drain off the pack and give it a full charge...by then night-time should come and i'll do some beamshots etc. I'll chuck in my ROP high for a base comparo and turn this into a proper thread with pretty pictures :lolsign:


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## Flakey (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: Current hotwire project finished! 100W+*

whell actually .... im using 4d lithium raw batteries!!!!!!!! so the hotdriver is really important for the protection of the user!!!! if anything goes wrong the light will just shut off. i intend to set the regulation at 14.3V these big D lithium batteris are capable of holding 3.7V at 10 amp draw ..... its a really impressive light. mag623 lithium powerd .. regulated output ... were betting on at least 20 minute runtime. again full writeup coming soon!


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## LEDcandle (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: Current hotwire project finished! 100W+*

Cool beans... the 64623 looks like a nice bulb with 2000 hrs life, even though its *only* 2800 lumens as compared to the 64625's 3600. But lots more life prob means it can be overdriven and achieve similar output.

You guys can name it differently; one for the NiMh version, one for Lithium Ds... haha... 

Delvance,

Do you have a Multimeter to test it?

Pulling 10A+ from the NiMh's may cause it to sag much more than 'usual'. I observe that a pull of 4.5A or so is still manageable by the NiMh's and they hold about 1.2 (based on the Polaris clone I did... 12 x NiMh fresh from charger 16.6v, under load 14.4v).

In my MagDDL, when the Amps were higher at 7.42A, the batts only seemed to hold 1.055v. 

At 10+A, it may sag really fast and prob won't even hold 1v. 

So it won't be 130w+ of power; more likely 115-120. But Dang!! That's mighty fine too and I think the bulb can take it


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## Delvance (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: Current hotwire project finished! 100W+*

Ledcandle,

I'm using Gp2000s from cheapbatterypacks. These cells can take a very very good abuse. They're rated at some ridiculous amp ability. The 64623 has been tested to be good for 16 cells i think :naughty: ...which is why i said i was thinking of 5D with 15 cbp 1650s! Mhmmmm...

Anyways, Awr calculated (in another hotwire thread) that 14.4V to the lamp will give 3200 output lumens, at this overdrive, i think it actually outdoes the 64625 as the 625 is really sensitive to overdrive and doesn't want to see much of it...definitely a lamp you'd want to run with the regulators.

Flakey,
Arrghh! The D size LIons! When i saw the feeler/GB for them i freaked! Haha. My ROP with 18650 x 4 is enough adventure for me lol. Good idea on the hotdriver with 4 of those beast Lions though!

Peeps, expect a full thread on this in 4 hours max =) I will compare the RS623, ROP high 18650 x 4, ROP high cbp 1650 and maybe my G2 with G&P G90 HP for laughs.


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## Flakey (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

Nice beamshots man, my experience with this light is about the same. Basically its hotspot is as bright as a mag85 but the size of texas! this thing just puts out SO much light. gratz dev enjoy your 100W'er


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## Delvance (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

Thanks Flakey  . Yeah the hotspot is enormous haha, very cool and fun. Definitely enjoying it...don't know about my bank account though  .



Flakey said:


> Nice beamshots man, my experience with this light is about the same. Basically its hotspot is as bright as a mag85 but the size of texas! this thing just puts out SO much light. gratz dev enjoy your 100W'er


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## dizzy (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

Awsome amount of light! Will you be selling these once you get it perfected?

If so, I may have to have one. Nice job!!


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## Delvance (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

Thanks Dizzy. I won't be making packages/turnkeys etc. Wil be more than happy to help you build one if you wanted some directions. Shoot me a PM if you're interested  



dizzy said:


> Awsome amount of light! Will you be selling these once you get it perfected?
> 
> If so, I may have to have one. Nice job!!


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## Flakey (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

i looked at your pics again and you would be wise to put the623 in the mag body that has a finned head! that rop doesnt need heat dissapation half as much as the 100W'er does!


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## Delvance (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

Haha i know...but the grey body is quad bored and the red body is tri bored. The Gp2000s won't fit in the quad bored light. I know i can swap the heads over but so far, i havn't really found the need to. I use the RS623 in minute durations whereas with the ROP, i've had it on for more than 20 minutes sometimes. So i find the finned head on the ROP is a better deal for me anyways. Got to love one hour runtime ROP, those LIons give it a nice flat discharge too.



Flakey said:


> i looked at your pics again and you would be wise to put the623 in the mag body that has a finned head! that rop doesnt need heat dissapation half as much as the 100W'er does!


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## DreamScape (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

Wow, check out the RooShooter!!
Nice write up Delvance and thanks for sharing.
Nice pics too.
Man, I bet you feel well satisfied?

How are you charging them GP2000's?
How is the top and bottom of the Battery pack kept on?
Pic's if Pos Please.  


:goodjob:


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## Delvance (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

Heya Dreamscape,

Thanks  . Satisfied ? Ohh more than satisfied i'd say, absolutely love having insta-strike 3000 lumens, too fun!

I'm charging the GP2000s with a universal smart charger rated for 12v-16.8v. It's basically the next size up from the blue coloured universal smart charger that does 6-12V that alot of CPF members have. So far, i'm very happy with the charger.

The cells are connected with rare earth magnet discs and then taped. I used some solder and solder wick to connect the stacks into series config. Eventually, i'll get the necessary equipment to end to end solder the pack i think...just trying to debate whether it's worth making the pack permanent for a few extra lumens. With how the batteries are connected atm, i can easily locate and replace a faulty cell in minutes.

My digital camera is on loan atm sorry, what pics did you want to see though ? When i get it back, i'll do some more beamshots maybe and pics of what other people want to see.


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## KevinL (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Current hotwire project finished! 100W+*



missionaryman said:


> break away from the norm and give it something truly Aussie, here's a few off the top of my head:
> 
> RooShooter 100
> DunnyFinder 623
> ...




Ah I finally understand what the RooShooter in someone's signature was. 

Reminds me of the time I suggested Roo Beater for someone's 5D Mag 

Nice light.. think USL-level light output.


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## Flakey (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

hehe nope this is 700 lumens brighter than a USL.


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## DreamScape (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: Updated! - Current hotwire project finished! DD 64623, 3000 output lumens.*

Hi Delvance,

Just wanted pics of the battery set up, But more beamshots is always welcome
Have you used this BEAST at work yet?


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## Delvance (May 25, 2006)

Just bought a 37mm extender from FM over in groupbuys section and bought two GP2000 cells from CBP. Planning to add extender and one more GP2000 cell to the RS623. Hopefully this won't instaflash the bulb. The bulb can handle around 16V and 13 NiMHs comes to 15.6V but i'm worried about hot off the charger instaflash...hopefully it won't instaflash or i'll have to let the pack rest/drain a bit.

If all goes well, the lamp should see ~15.6V, and plugging that number into Awr's hotrater spreadsheet gives 4200+ output lumens. 

Just got my camera back not long ago too, if it all works, beamshots will follow.


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## missionaryman (May 25, 2006)

can't wait to see the results of that upgrade, when I saw it at the meet I thought it looked a bit yellow and could handle another cell. It should whiten up real good and get nice & bright now.
All you'll need next is a 3" head to tighten up the spot some...


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## mdocod (May 25, 2006)

FireStarter623
CarpetBurner623
CaptainBurn623
SkyBurner623
Magabomb(waiting to happen)623


sorry- just thinking off the top of my head here...


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## HGB (May 25, 2006)

Delvance said:


> Batt. pack is just taped together =P, bit of a snug fit heh.



What kind of contact plate are you using at both ends of this battery pack?

Are they made by yourself? 

Are they "borrowed" from a battery adapter?

Could you please post some more info/pictures about them?

Thanks!!!


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## cnjl3 (May 25, 2006)

you stated: 
Please, comments, criticisms, questions etc are all welcomed!

ditto on the comment above me, more pictures and maybe a DIY on how you did you battery pack- please!


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## Delvance (May 26, 2006)

Havn't got my parts to upgrade it to 130W+ yet but here's some info on the batt. pack.

The light is running with 12 x GP 2000 NiMH cells atm. Basically 4 per stack and 3 stacks all in series. What i did was use rare earth magnets to connect each cell to form the 3 stacks. I then taped the 3 stacks together, with one stack facing the opposite direction to the other two. Twisted some solderwick together and coated it with solder then applied solder to the batteries that were going to be connected together by the bit of solderwick (for a series config, 14.4V). Then soldered the solderwick directly onto the batteries that had the solder on them. Ends up looking something like this (sorry for the bad photo, it's charging atm)






As to the plates i'm using on both ends, they are just metal "D" plates salvaged from Duracell alkaline D batteries (the normal type, not the ultra series or whatever it's called). Take 2 Duracell D alkaline normal batteries, remove the wrapper, insert pocketknife between the actual battery and the top metal plate and remove the metal plate. I then covered most of the underside of the D plate with 2 layers of electrical tape so the magnet of the unsoldered battery can connect to the D plate but the solderwick won't conduct/short. They end up looking like this...






Not the most fancy solution for the battery pack but the project was done on a budget (otherwise i would've just bought an USL hehe), and it works. I did want to get the battery pack end to end soldered but decided not to so as it's easier to replace faulty cells in the future. I also don't have the time/equipment/skills to make my own battery carrier so this "magnetpack" will have to do for now. I've had no problems with it so far and it doesn't seem to introduce much resistance...just progold all surfaces before adding the magnets. I've measured over 14V at the lamp but couldn't get an exact reading as my DMM probes started smoking =/

You could use better stuff to insulate part of the D plate as well i guess or buy boards from radioshack and make your own. Easy is good though...


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## HGB (May 26, 2006)

Thanks a lot for the detailed description!!!

I also agree on the concept of getting the job done with things we have around, or parts from those things.

It gives the project a special flavour, doesn't it?

Kudos on the "custom contact plates" :goodjob:


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## Delvance (May 26, 2006)

Welcome HGH .

Funny you should mention that, if the RS623 was properly built with carriers/adapters or end to end soldered pack etc... i probably would eventually get bored by it and sell it. As it is though, it's got quite a bit of sentimental value and i don't think i'd ever part with it...unless i was getting out of the hobby. I just re-taped the D plates with high quality tape...the old stuff was moving around and warping etc. The new stuff is great and looks neat too.

I did a bit of testing tonight by getting the GP2000 pack hot off the charger and adding a hot CBP1650 to the end of it and then using a DMM to short the light to turn it on...no instaflash!!! Output was a fair bit more and whiter...can't wait for my extender and extra GP2000 cells now! :devil: 

Edit - With the CBP1650 at the end, amp draw was near 10A... well past 140W.
I think i may have a faulty cell in my batt. pack too. Handy that it's not end to end soldered hrmm! During a run till the voltage dipped dramtically...upon removal of batt. pack from light, one cell was very hot while the others were moderately warm, but the runtime is on par so i don't know... :shrug: 



HGB said:


> Thanks a lot for the detailed description!!!
> 
> I also agree on the concept of getting the job done with things we have around, or parts from those things.
> 
> ...


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## Delvance (Jun 1, 2006)

Got my parts today mhmm...
First post updated,
added beamshot,


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## andrewwynn (Jun 3, 2006)

wow can't believe i missed this thread.. cool to see people taking advantage of the hotrater.. funny to note that flakey's light ended up turning into a 625 light in the end. 

I love the ability of the 623 to direct drive.. i've not been able to get a driver to start the 623 w/o blowing yet.. they want about 50A at startup and my poor little FET has a 35A max.. i've wrangled the 623 by holding back the current to 25A at startup but trying the same with the 623.. it takes too long to start and blows the FET.. i have solved a couple other problems that are likely related and think i'll have a 623 hotdriver soon. 

Advantage of the HD in a lamp that works with DD.. for one.. should you have an issue like described.. cell going bad.. it will just shut off.. a 1 cell drop in voltage is enough that the lamp won't light.. thinks the battery pack is dead and you can go fix things.. nice when the pack isn't soldered but i use bolt-together solutions.. 

my equivalent pack for the Mag625 is shown here

picture:





The hotrater values are a bit off in your first post.. not to diminish at all the real-world holy cow brightness.. but osram is really annoying in not publishing amp/volt specs for their lamps, so until i have a lamp i can run on a power supply and actually measure, i have to calculate them based on their watt ratings.. 

As it turns out.. the 623 pulls closer to 9.0A not 8.33 at 12V.. meaning it's 108W baseline.. that throws off the numbers a bit.. also.. using a magnet between each will add about 20-30mohm resistance vs direct contact.. so the mohm value in 'C3' should be more like 60-70 mohm for a more accurate calculator.. that's the bad news.. the good news.. the GP2000s.. probably hold 1.3V initially so you have a serious brightness spike that is probably at least 3500+ Lumen.. but it's not likely that you are achieving more than 35-37L/W.. so you can measure vLamp and iLamp to figure out watts.. the re-rater puts 10.17A at 152W with 15.60vBat and 15.0 vBulb.. it calculates to 40L/W and 3965Torch lumens.. it's not that bright i can tell you from direct measurements and CCT.. it is hella bright though. 

When making flakey's light.. i had an operational 623 running at 14.2V and it was really pale in comparison to a 625 lamp at 12.5V.. now i run them at 12.75V.. and they just smoke a 623 that is 14.4V sourced.. even if using the badass GP2000s.. 

There are advantages either way.. the 623's lower CCT is nicer for outdoor work.. the 625 is nicer for indoor work (especially with a #7 stipple reflector.. my fav. beam of any light of any time).. DD is a no-brainer.. i love the rippoff of a 'd' battery for the end caps! (been there done that with my first 6-pack of 17500s in a 2D host.. did the same thing but since it was a parallel connection.. only 9 magnets and 6 batteries.. no soldering needed. and it held itself together no tape required. 

I would love to do a head-to-head now that you have the 623 running 'properly'.. i was not happy with 14.4V host... can you get an accurate tailcap current? You really have to use a trick to pull it off.. i use some banana plugs and about 1' of 16ga speaker wire for my leads.. just stripped on the end and tinned.. as you noticed.. the high-resistance connection when you try to use normal leads will cause a lot of heat.. i've burnt my thumb doing that before! worse though.. is that you are holding back a lot of voltage in the leads of the meter.. typically more than 80mohm.. which doubles the voltage drop. 

I would love to know the current and lamp voltage on this light.. it's possible to get a direct lamp voltage reading if you use some 24ga wire poked into the socket next to the lamp.. just makes sure you have eye protection when running a lamp w/o the head on.. it would be fascinating to get an accurate estimate of the output of this monster, but we'd need an accurate vLamp.. 

check out this post to see my latest beamshots.. with the IRC 65W lamp outputting about 3700 torch lumen.. but consuming about 120W at the time.. compared with this 623 lamp.. which should be taking about 150W to run.. but that puts it in about 3600-3700 lumen output based on the theoretical max of halogen/incan lamps (w/o the IRC).. It is so funny to see the beamshots of the likes of a Mag85 or the ROP compared to these monsters! 

Sorry about the deviation on the 623 lamp in the rater.. change the 'amp' on the 'rated value' to 9.0A to get at least more accurate ratings.. i'm not sure what is 'gone goofy' with that particular lamp that it's over-eagar.. other than that the rater is really only designed for a 10-20% variance and at 41%.. it's getting less and less accurate.. the 'clincher' is.. if you see the lum/W figure get over 35-36.. it's not accurate. 

CCT and bulb life are inversely proportionate.. by the time you achieve 'too white'.. the bulb blows.. so there is a direct correlation between how white the light is.. and how close you are to melting the filament.. this in mind.. there is also a connection between efficacy and CCT.. or efficacy and bulb life.. so.. if it doesn't seem 'so white it's gonna blow'.. it's not over 35L/W.. so.. figure the watts.. that's easy.. 10A x 15V = 150W.. multiply by 35W.. that's about what the true output is when it's 'darn white'.. = 3400L.. pushing it to 'about to blow'.. maybe 37L/W = 3600L.. 

absolutely in the same league as 4200.. there is no practical difference from your eye's point of view.. just wanted to clear up some minor mathematical errors partly due to the database having a bogus value for Amps.. not sure if my rater went out with the 623 data in there or you did the same thing i did and calculated amps from their bogus claim of 100W when it's 108. 

Cheers and keep up the great work, what a nice mod. 

-awr


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## Delvance (Jun 5, 2006)

Woah Awr, huge post! Unfortunately, i've got uni exams this week so i'll post a more detailed reply in a week or so.

News flash though - Even with the extra resistance of the magnets in use, 13 hot GP2000s flashed the lamp (2 to be exact...now i'm out till my order gets sent). I actually had a bad cell when i was running the light in 12 cell config. so when i changed it to 13 cell, it was fine even hot off the charger. Later on that night, i replaced the bad cell (i think i overdischarged the pack too much and that cell failed...or it was too much heat from soldering). Once i replaced the bad cell, hot off the charger flashed two bulbs.

When i get my order of 64623s...i'll try it with the pack which would be resting for approximately one week by then, then try an overnight rest for the pack. Hopefully an overnight rest will be sufficient not to blow the lamp. If it does, i'll go 12 cell config and solder the whole pack together and solder the metal plates on instead of using magnets so it'll run near the bleeding edge...

I'll do some measurements of volts and amps soon as my exams are over and i figure out what cell solution is best 

Btw, when it was running on 13 cells (albeit 1 bad), it seriously cooked my reflector in there...it's all dull now lol. Might have to buy a stipple, drill it out and see how that goes (probably just cook it as well, if the 13 rested pack works).


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## andrewwynn (Jun 5, 2006)

well.. those GP2000s are insane.. they can hold 1.35 for a spell on a fresh charge even at 10A... so 17.55V just maybe is a bit too hot of a voltage for them... I'm still working on solving the hotdriver-623 solution once i have that functioning it's the way to go when you get to the limit! I would stick with magnets vs solder.. but you can also just use a pack like what i'm close to releasing.. bolts together.. will have resistance near to a soldered pack but just unbolts for ease of changing cells. 

ouch on the reflector.. i've not had that problem yet with 100W lamps fortunately.. 150W is a bit higher than my brightest though. 

-awr


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## HGB (Jun 5, 2006)

andrewwynn said:


> .. but you can also just use a pack like what i'm close to releasing.. bolts together.. will have resistance near to a soldered pack but just unbolts for ease of changing cells.



Where can we get more info about these new packs?

".. bolts together.. "  ???

Format and cell combinations???

Thanks in advance!!!


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## Firebladz (Jun 5, 2006)

You guys realize you're all off your rockers right??

First of all that tree looks like it's about to burst into flames!!

Secondly you guys are now building your own battery packs to power these monsters, does that tell you anything LOL!!

You're nutz all nutz I tells ya!! hahahahaa


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## andrewwynn (Jun 5, 2006)

a sneak preview:









The initial release will be A and AA to D size.. it is convertible between series and parallel and is reversible.. since the rods are made to length.. pretty much your imagination is the limit of what cells can be used. 

"A" diameter cells are about 17mm diameter and "AA" diameter cells are about 14mm diameter.. using A diameter.. you need a tri-bore body to fit it into a maglite..with AA cells.. it fits in w/o boring. 

The combinations are nearly countless.. it comes with a 3rd PCB for the bottom with a spot for an FET for remote switching of the pack.. with a charge jack.. and can be assembled 100% w/o soldering (for series).. for parallel.. two jumpers must be soldered.

The design is based on my hand-made prototypes which have been tested for months with ludicrous levels of power and current.. the current capability of these packs is enough to self-destruct things if you manage to short them out.. don't expect a weak spring to become a fuse.. they are a force to be reckoned with. 

This would be an ideal bat. pack for this light which is why i decided to share here in this thread.. 'first look'.. I'm waiting 'til i get the PCBs back before i post an official announcement. Notice how the PCB traces ARE the polarity indicators! an awr innovation. 

Note that the series vs parallel is just a jumper.. another awr innovation. 

Note the rods.. are touching the cells in a tri-pod formation to keep them in perfect alignment.. another awr innovation. 

Note that the design does not require soldering (though a tiny bit is needed to attach the charge jack).. hoping i can pre-assemble that aspect as they are sent out so the end-user can get away w/o any soldering. 

ok.. enough hijack.. but i thought you might like to see what's coming before you solder directly to your cells when it's not needed. 

-awr


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## ktronik (Jun 5, 2006)

Freeks!!! stop it you will go blind....  


Ktronik


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## zehnmm (Jun 5, 2006)

Andrew: Paypal locked and loaded for your new battery pack!


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## Delvance (Jun 5, 2006)

Awr,

A hotdriver for the 623 would definitely be very nice. If it does get developed and sold...I'm in! The thought of running a 623 on the absolute edge is indeed very nice - longer lamp life, possibility of higher output than the 625 maybe ? And i actually like the beam it gives off with a LOP. It's this massive directional flood of light with a decent hotspot and that's a LOP reflector. I'll have to try a stippled in there sometime, problem is i only have handheld drills and the 623 lamp is rather large...

I've seen your bolt together battery pack solution for the GP2000s and it's something i would prefer to use over soldering definitely, but unfortunately, i don't have the tools and equipment to construct it. However, if you're going to start a production run of them, i would definitely be interested. The sneak preview of the carrier looks excellent and reading through the many innovations on the carrier compared to current offerings, it does seem like an excellent item!

With your battery carrier solution, i'd probably use it in a 2nd build...probably a 2Dish sized host, get rid of the [email protected] switch core, 12xIB1400s and a rocker switch with a modded KIU to work without the [email protected] switch core...coupled with the hotrater and 625...i think this should make for a very nice  light hehe.


I'm hoping that a rested 13xGP2000 pack with the extra resistance given by the use of magnets will save the 623 from flashing...it should be ok if the pack is rested i think, as i did have it running no problems when i had one faulty cell in the 13cell config - even hot off the charger the bulb was fine (the faulty cell was still giving a volt reading too, i think it was faulty in that the capacity was more like 200mAh after either overdischarge or soldering heat damage).

I've got 5 x 64623 on the way to me atm, once they arrive and i finish my last exam (coming saturday)...i'll start experimenting...see what solution works best in terms of cell count, solder/magnets etc direct driving the 623 lamp. Probably going to blow a few more but oh well. Once i find a nice solution, i'll get the current drawn at tailcap and volts at bulb. Thanks for the banana plug and wire idea! Best part is my work sells stuff like that really cheap. I did measure the current drawn when the light was working with the 13 cell config (but 1 bad cell) and the current drawn was nearly 10A... iirc, it was hovering around 9.8-9.7A. I'll definitely try it again with the banana plug + better wiring and a working batt. pack. Oh, when the light was working in it's 12 cell form, i did measure the volts at lamp...it was easily over 14V but i couldn't get an accurate reading due to the probes smoking lol.

Regarding the hotrater being out, i'm pretty sure i did what you did. Ie. i calculated the amps from their bogus claim of 100W. Ahh so it's more like 108. When i get some time, i'll have a fiddle with the hotrater and see how it goes then.


Firebladz,
I might be nutz, but i'm a blinded nutz!!! :laughing: Speaking of flames...during the last (and first) sydney CPF meet...i had the RS623 with me in 12cell config. Even with a mostly drained batt. pack, i still set paper on fire quicksmart with it hehe.

Ktronik,
I'm just going by your sigline hehe . Missed you at the first sydney CPF meet. Would've loved to see your nice collection!


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## andrewwynn (Jun 5, 2006)

623 driver is just a matter of when i have the time to assassinate another handful of FETs (see my signature) while figuring out what set up works.. i'm up to about 40 or so not including the SOT-23 tiny ones which i blew about a dozen one night on a different project..also hotdriver related.. (the model i was using has a max Vgate of 12V and i kept trying to use it at 14). 

you can bore out a reflector with a hand drill.. the best bet.. cut two pieces of wood with a 'v' in them.. screw them down to another piece of wood such that the 'v's will clamp down the edge of the reflector.. stand on the bigger piece of wood as your vice and you'll be golden.. take your time and move up a bit at a time.. take like 3 steps.. somebody else recently did exactly that.. i think he didn't even clamp it down... clamping=good idea.

My battery solution is designed to have an FET in the base.. you can swap out the charging jack for a pushbutton and just drill a hole in the back.. i've already sourced the pushbutton.. though the one i have now is reverse clicky.. dangit.. though i just realized.. better for the high-power hotdrivers anyhow.. double-clicking can melt FETs. 

11 cell with my pack in a 2D.. hmmmm. running a 625 hmmmmm can't say more... but just maybe there is a really good reason smartpak has an FET switch.

I think resting your pack you can get away with 13 cells.. 13 cells with a hotdriver to soft start will be the bomb and the brightest mag mod i'm aware of perhaps save the 65W IRC lamp model i'm currently playing with. (i've measured 24%more light than a 2800L Mag 625).. 

LOL on the smoking probes.. use two red probes next time :-D I noticed my black probe was the only one trying to start on fire when i've done the same measurement.. however.. best it to use some 24 ga wire and stuff in the holes next to the lamp pins and get your measurement outside.. that way you can also shield the lamp from your face with the body of the light. 

at 13 cell.. the 623 will be positively badass.. it'll loose some of the yellow and really holy cow smoking be bright... a combo of 13 cells and the HD to avoid instaflashing and wow... i would work on modifying the switch to have the 13th cell go up into the switch.. you might be able to get it to fit w/o having the extension on the back. 

-awr


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## zehnmm (Jun 5, 2006)

Andrew: I can hardly wait for your new battery packs. I do have a couple of questions, just to make sure that I am hearing this right:

1. Will you make a 12aa-3d adapter, like fivemega's? (and also like the one that you wrote about on your web site?) Hint: please make these!!!!!
2." "A" diameter cells are about 17mm diameter and "AA" diameter cells are about 14mm diameter.. using A diameter.. you need a tri-bore body to fit it into a maglite..with AA cells.. it fits in w/o boring." I have one of fivemega's quad bored 3D's. In your opinion, will the pack with the "A" batteries fit into it without further boring?
3. For the pack with the AA diameter cells, you say it fits without boring. Is this for the 3aa-1d pack as illustrated? 

Thanks!!


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## andrewwynn (Jun 5, 2006)

they are in the process of being made, they will be for sale as soon as 3 weeks... they are any multiple of 3 to D for A or AA.. 3, 6, 9, 15, 18, 21, 24.. 

A will not fit into quad-bore.. you need tri-bore. I will investicate a quad-adapter but i've mostly abandoned AA batteries they don't have the power i need... it's easy enough to modify a modamag quad adapter to work for the quad-bore lights.. just look at my website how to do the mod: http://rouse.com/hotdriver

The illustrated pack is a 6AA ->2D solution. it would fit in a 2D light without modification. 

The main impetus for me to create these was a need for a solution to work with BAM! I can produce them for about half the price of buying a kit from somebody else and it's a better solution to boot. It doesn't hurt that they will kick serious butt for the likes of this mod etc. 

-awr


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## zehnmm (Jun 6, 2006)

Thanks Andrew! Rock on!


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## Delvance (Jun 26, 2006)

*RS623 13 cell DD 4000output lumens ?*

Good news. I got some 64623 bulbs finally (3 weeks running some crummy bulb after i blew the two 64623s i had ). And a 13 cell rested pack does not instaflash the 64623. Overnight rested pack comes to about 17.7V. Bear in mind my batt. pack build has some resistance in it (fair bit more than say a battery carrier like Awr showed earlier in the thread).

Anyways, it's day time atm so no beamshots. But a quick ceiling bounce test in my room shows it is indeed brighter and whiter. The old config of 12 cell HOT off the charger gave a best of 165lux iirc, while the rested 13pack (overnight) gave me 190+ lux.

So there you have it, the 64623 should be good for a 13 cell DD hotwire, output probably near 4000 lumens. You will have to rest your batt. pack overnight...or if you're impatient, just use 12 cell config (still over 3000 output lumens probably) and it will take 12cell hot off charger no problem at all.

Edit - Ahh, when i get some time, i will measure the volts at lamp and tailcap current. Using those figures along with a new baseline watts of the lamp as mentioned by Awr, hopefully, i'll get some more accurate Hotrater figures for us.


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## andrewwynn (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: RS623 13 cell DD 4000output lumens ?*

Hey Delvance.. i finally got a hotdriver taht doesn't blow chunks lighting up the 623 lamp.. if it will work from 13 cell you can get one incorporated in and stop blowing lamps from instaflash :-D

I can get you an accurage baseline also for the 623 as long as it takes less than 10A to run.. oh of course at 12V it will. I am pretty sure my latest spreadsheet already incorporates it but i'll double check. 

-awr


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## Delvance (Jun 26, 2006)

Wow! Awesome work Awr! A regulated RS623 would indeed be very nice mhmm. Perfect timing as i'm on holidays from uni atm and working a bit more...means i'd most probably be able to afford a hotrater and your battery carrier solution for my light in a week or so  

An accurate baseline watt for the 623 lamp would be awesome Awr, i think my next shift is friday...i'll pick up some banana plugs and high current wiring at work to measure the light. I'll check out your new hotrater tonight...just got over a bad cold so i'm enjoying some sunny walks and drumming atm.

Keep us posted on the high current hotrater and the battery solution. I'm almost 100% i'd go for one of each.


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## andrewwynn (Jun 26, 2006)

you mixed up hotdriver and hotrater there (well just used the same word for both items) but i know what you meant. 

The smartpak will be exactly what anybody trying to make a ludcriously small ludicrously powerful light will want.. the MM model needs updating to work high power and the FM model is awesome but long. 

I'm just myself clearing a cold.. me and Leigh put in a full work shift today though.. but friday was not a complete day and we both were sick since wed i think so it was a dreary week. 

-awr


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## Delvance (Jun 27, 2006)

Ahh woops lol!. Yeah i meant i wanted to buy a hotdriver lol.

Working while you're sick isn't a nice thing is it...i had to do an 11 hour stocktake shift last week during the peak of my cold =/ Hope you and Leigh get well soon.

I was using the 623 last night with 13 cells, current drawn is in excess of 10 amps and finally the switch failed on me. I clicked the switch and instead of popping up slightly for the on position, it stayed stuck down and i couldn't turn the light off...so i justed twisted the extender off to turn it off. Disassembly of the switch shows that some of the plastic around the Magswitch's round/circle metal connector (between the two metal tabs) had melted onto it, causing the switch to stick. Just spent this morning removing some plastic on the metal connectors. Roughed the surface then treated it with some contact cleaner and reassembled the KIU bipin socket. I'm thinking now with the surrounding plastics gone and the maintenance performed, the switch will be able to hold up just fine for a good while.

I did a ceiling bounce test again once it was all back together, over 220lux with a rested pack at 17.75V. That's better than when i had 12cells + 1 faulty cell hot off the charger.

Anyways, just wanted to report a magswitch with KIU bipin socket is good for upto 10amps. Once you hit 10amps, the plastic will start to melt. I should probably start looking for a more efficient switch and integrating it with the KIU bipin socket...(or just wait for the hotdriver )


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## andrewwynn (Jun 28, 2006)

i was wondering 

hey you'd have been fine if you put pro-gold on that switch.. here's some basic math.. 

with 10A going through the switch.. if there is 20-30mohm of resistance.. (typical for an untreated switch).. you have 200-300mV drop aka 0.2-.3V.. multiply that by 10A and you have 2-3W.. well that is enough to heat a small piece of metal quite nicely as anybody with a lux3 light on 'high' can attest.

now.. drop it down to 10mohm and the voltage drops to .1V on the switch and you have 1W power loss on the switch.. it will probably just 'get warm' and not cause any serious problem. 

hotdriver of course bypasses the switch completely for load current.. and has about 15mohm resistance.. compared with the total KIU resistance of about 40-50mohm.. that means like .2-3V more to the lamp once you aren't regulating anymore.. plus .2V more overhead to keep regulation longer.

I would set the driver to nominal vBat so it just abosrbs that 'over voltage' and you'll be in great shape.. as long as the driver can put up with the initial spike.. i had no problems with the latest model from 4 LiON starting the 623.. but you have an extra cell .. i also started from my bench supply but it pulls more current at that voltage than my bench supply can put out! 

-awr


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## Delvance (Jun 28, 2006)

I built the light before i knew where to buy progold (i live in Australia, we don't really have radioshack over here). However, shortly after...i found Jaycar electronics sold the stuff...that was after i assembled the KIU socket onto the switch though lol. I did use some contact cleaner when i first assembled it, but progold probably does a better job.

When i get some spare money over the next week or two, i'll shoot you an email about a hotdriver for my light Awr  (and maybe a smartpak for it too, if they are ready by then...otherwise i may just wait till they are both ready and get them at the same time mhm...nice).


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