# SSC P4 and Cree XR-E



## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

So I have lately been wondering about the XR-E R2 bin vs the SSC P4 U2/V bin. I have researched it, and it only comes up with threads from years ago that have the early binned ones like the P3/P4 XR-E and the S2/U1 binnned P4's. So now here is my question: if someone was going to build a light, which one of these would you use (and I don't want to hear SST-50, SST-90, XP-G,XP-E, MC-E or P7 because thats not the answer I'm looking for)? Which one creates the higher luminous efficacy? Which one is more durable? And what is the highest binnned P4 the V bin, (if there is one (thought I saw it on Seoul's sight, maybe I'm crazy)) or the U2 bin? Which one can be driven higher/harder? What are your thoughts?


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## phantom23 (Jul 23, 2010)

XP-G is most efficient right now. There's no P4 V bin, there's U3 bin (photonfanatic has U3SVNH - very nice tint and low Vf). SST-90 can be driven @9A, SST-50 @5A, MC-E and P7 @2,8A, XP-G @1,5A, XP-E, XR-E, SSC P4 - @1A.


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## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

Did I mention that I didn't want to hear jack squat about any other emitter other than XR-E/P4? Or shall I say it a third time?


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## Nitroz (Jul 23, 2010)

The Cree XR-E is more efficient and robust package vs. the Seoul P4. I have used both and each of them have some pros and cons, depending on what you want to build.

Some more information on what type of light you want to build and the size would help.

Why is it that you do not want to use more efficient LEDs? 

The Seoul p4 and XR-E are considered old tech.


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## mvyrmnd (Jul 23, 2010)

Cole07 said:


> Did I mention that I didn't want to hear jack squat about any other emitter other than XR-E/P4? Or shall I say it a third time?



I'm sure there was a politer way to point that out...

Regardless, you will find a lot of links to emitter spec sheets here

Google can help you with the rest, I'm sure.


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## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

As I already mentioned above, I did also search google but it only came up with threads posted from many years past. I am looking for the modern answer to the question and not necessairily the answer from three years ago.


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## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

Nitroz said:


> The Cree XR-E is more efficient and robust package vs. the Seoul P4. I have used both and each of them have some pros and cons, depending on what you want to build.
> 
> Some more information on what type of light you want to build and the size would help.
> 
> ...


 I've been thinking of modding my 5D mag and I've heard that the P4/XR-E are much easier to work with than XP series and they are cheaper too.


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## fyrstormer (Jul 23, 2010)

Last I checked, SSC's phosphors are less durable than Cree's, which would be why all the cheap pocket rockets use Cree emitters. I think their efficiencies are comparable, on account of using the same emitter dies, so really it comes down to how hard you want to drive the emitter vs. how important it is to have a smooth beam.

XP-Gs are harder to work with because of their smaller carrier size, but they don't have any pre-focusing optics on them which makes it easier to get a smooth beam instead of a bright hotspot with a dark corona around it. They're also more efficient on account of having a lower wattage per square mm at any given drive level. The XP-G R5 is definitely a step up from the XR-E Q5/R2, and it doesn't require special reflectors like the XR-E does.


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## Nitroz (Jul 23, 2010)

Cole07 said:


> I've been thinking of modding my 5D mag and I've heard that the P4/XR-E are much easier to work with than XP series and they are cheaper too.



Now we have something to work with.

Unless you plan on changing the reflector the XR-E does not work well with the stock Mag reflector whereas the Seoul is a much better choice.

The XP-G mounted on a board is much easier to work with and really does not cost much more then the p4 or the XR-E. The XP-G works well in a stock mag reflector and is much more efficient and puts out more light overall.

The XR-E with an aspheric lens in a mag makes for an extreme thrower, and can be defocused for flood also.


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## Illum (Jul 23, 2010)

SSCs have been more vulnerable to damage both from the jelly dome and the tendency to shift blue awfully fast from emitter slug heat saturation...

While they are excellent for modding out Luxeon lights [same size, same collimation procedures] I don't like SSCs because of bad impression from a string of failures. Besides, they are rather chewy and has a somewhat metallic and bitter taste


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## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

Nitroz said:


> Now we have something to work with.
> 
> Unless you plan on changing the reflector the XR-E does not work well with the stock Mag reflector whereas the Seoul is a much better choice.
> 
> The XP-G mounted on a board is much easier to work with and really does not cost much more then the p4 or the XR-E. The XP-G works well in a stock mag reflector and is much more efficient and puts out more light overall.


He He, sorry, forgot to mention I'm leaning more towards throw too so yet again, XP-G is kinda out of the question...and I would prefer to have as little rings as possible.


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## Nitroz (Jul 23, 2010)

Cole07 said:


> He He, sorry, forgot to mention I'm leaning more towards throw too so yet again, XP-G is kinda out of the question...and I would prefer to have as little rings as possible.



IMO, the XP-G in a mag reflector throws quite well and has alot of spill also. The xp-g in a smaller reflector is where the xp-g does not work as well as a seoul p4.

Good luck on your build.


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## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

Can it throw like an XR-E or P4?


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## Nitroz (Jul 23, 2010)

Cole07 said:


> Can it throw like an XR-E or P4?



The Xr-e aspheric lens mag, No. Versus a p4, yes just as well.

Again, the XR-E does not work at all in a stock mag reflector.


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## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

Ok ok you got me. Looks like I am going to be forced to go the XP-G direction. Will it need to be heatsinked if I want to drive it at say... 1000ma?


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## Nitroz (Jul 23, 2010)

Cole07 said:


> Ok ok you got me. Looks like I am going to be forced to go the XP-G direction. Will it need to be heatsinked if I want to drive it at say... 1000ma?



Most definitely! The xp-g is also rated up to 1.5 amps, just make sure you buy them from a good source and that they are mounted well on a quality PCB. I would avoid kaidomain and dealextreme's tempting inexpensive prices.


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## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

This is going to be way to much for me. I've never modded before and I don't know where to get a heatsink or anything then... And I will need a couple XP-Gs and drivers just in case I fry some along the way...


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## Cole07 (Jul 23, 2010)

You know what, if I am going to lug around a huge 5D it might as well be friggin bright and throw well! I'm headed for the MC-E/P7 route now. What do ya think?


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## znomit (Jul 23, 2010)

Cole07 said:


> Did I mention that I didn't want to hear jack squat about any other emitter other than XR-E/P4? Or shall I say it a third time?



Yes, three times would be good.


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## Curt R (Jul 23, 2010)

The XPG-R5 will produce twice the Candela for the same size reflector or solid optic a compared to the SSC P7 
or the MCE. The XPE-R2 will probably equal the throw of the XPG-R5 as the die size is smaller, easier to 
concentrate the beam. Less drive, longer battery life, less Lumen output and side spill. 

The time for the XR, SSC P4/P7 and the MCE have passed.

A better bet for the 5D mag would be an SST-50 driven at 5 amps for good throw and high Lumen output.

Curt


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## fyrstormer (Jul 23, 2010)

Come to think of it, there IS a V-bin P4, because I have a prototype in my McGizmo Ti-PD-S. Not that it's really a going concern at this point, but hey...the more you know...

Anyway, the XP-G is slightly harder to focus tightly than the XR-E is, on account of the larger emitter die, but it more than makes up for it in increased brightness. I have a couple of XP-G lights, one of which runs on just a single AA battery, and they put my XR-E lights to shame in terms of brightness. Any throw you lose due to softer focus you'll regain due to increased brightness.


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## Cole07 (Jul 24, 2010)

Bleh :sick2: you guys are killing me! I'm no insane modder. I want a bright bright light that will throw pretty well. The closest I have to that is a Rebel Mag 3D which does an O.K. job at throw, but its not very bright. Now I'm stuck in the middle and don't know what to do... :mecry:


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## Nitroz (Jul 24, 2010)

Cole07 said:


> Bleh :sick2: you guys are killing me! I'm no insane modder. I want a bright bright light that will throw pretty well. The closest I have to that is a Rebel Mag 3D which does an O.K. job at throw, but its not very bright. Now I'm stuck in the middle and don't know what to do... :mecry:



I would say start with the less expensive emitter, the xp-g since this will be your first mod that way if you mess up you wont be throwing $33 down the drain.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 24, 2010)

With all the experts gathered together here, can I put an xp-g into a light designed for the xr-e?


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## Nitroz (Jul 24, 2010)

kaichu dento said:


> With all the experts gathered together here, can I put an xp-g into a light designed for the xr-e?



You can but be prepared for a much larger hotspot, especially in a small reflector light. The best reflector I have seen for the xp-g is the 41 x 31 smooth reflector, it has great throw and lots of spill.

What light is it that you want to swap in the xp-g?


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## John_Galt (Jul 24, 2010)

Cole07 said:


> You know what, if I am going to lug around a huge 5D it might as well be friggin bright and throw well! I'm headed for the MC-E/P7 route now. What do ya think?




Any multi-die LED's (ie: SSC P7/Cree MC-E) or large die LED's (ie: SST50/90) will be very bright floody lights with some "punch." Not a super tight beam that throws a mile. Check out some of the other Mag mods for inspiration and help.

Oh, and the P7/MC-E will have a doughnut hole in the center of the hot spot if you use a smooth reflector.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 24, 2010)

Nitroz said:


> You can but be prepared for a much larger hotspot, especially in a small reflector light. The best reflector I have seen for the xp-g is the 41 x 31 smooth reflector, it has great throw and lots of spill.
> 
> What light is it that you want to swap in the xp-g?


D10, L0D so small reflector lights mostly I guess. I like large hotspots with smooth edges and well lit spill.


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## Nitroz (Jul 24, 2010)

kaichu dento said:


> D10, L0D so small reflector lights mostly I guess. I like large hotspots with smooth edges and well lit spill.



It will work but I know some have done mods to the above lights with the XP-G and the output to the eye looks to be less because of the larger die.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 24, 2010)

As long as the beam pattern is smooth I'm happy!


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## LEDninja (Jul 25, 2010)

The LED is only one part of the throw equation. Reflector shape and size or optic especially aspherics can improve throw quite a bit.

The SSC-P7 is famous for being floody. That is because for the first 2 years all the lights come from DX and they have small reflectors.
In a Mag P7 or Fenix TK40, the bigger reflector changes everything.
Mag P7 left, MTE P7 right.






I took this to the extreme once.
Terralux TLE-1F '50 lumen' in a 6V lantern vs MTE P7 '900 lumen'




I got my beamshots reversed.
MTE P7 '900 lumen' left, Terralux TLE-1F '50 lumen' right. Notice how much more throw the big 4 inch reflector gets with an LED 1/10th the power.





I do not recommend the P7/MCE because of the need to defocus to avoid the gaps between the dies from showing up, but if you can find the right reflector/optic the XP-G should work fine.


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## Cole07 (Jul 25, 2010)

I change my mind a lot. Instead of throw, I want a wall of light. I already have a thrower good for about 200+ meters, a rebel mag 3D. So now I want a wall of light. P7 or MC-E is the question now...


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## GarageBoy (Jul 31, 2010)

IIRC, the P7 is a bit larger and is more common. OTOH, you can wire the dies of the MC-E individually


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