# Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pics)



## Ginseng (Feb 24, 2004)

I've completed Project Aurora, an effort to create a modular high-wattage incandescent platform based on the Mag D-series body tubes. I use the term "body tube" to indicate the necessity of replacing all internal components for mods of the power levels encountered here. The useable voltage range of the power supplies is 6V to 24V. Power output range is 50W to 250W. This account focuses on the primary prototype based on a 3D body tube, 12V voltage and 100w power.

*Primary requirements/design specifications:*
1. Able to scale from 6V to 24V.
2. Able to operate from 50W to 250W.
3. Able to transplant core components from one body to another in under 5 minutes.
4. Able to use G4 and G6.35 bipin bulbs
5. Compact, but with exhibition runtime of at least 10 minutes, cumulative at the highest power output

This is the story of *Aurora*, the most powerful 3D-sized flashlight *in the world.*











*Background:*
There are numerous, well documented efforts to modify Mag D bodies to accept higher powered light engines. Some of these involve high performance bulbs from Welch Allyn and others involve MR-16 reflectorized bulbs. The high performance bulb route provides for power levels of up to approximately 35W. The switch mechanism is retained and nimh rechargeables and lithium primary cells are the typical power supplies. The MR-16 route provides for power levels of up to 50W with the stock switch and power supplies noted above. 

Within these categories, the modders further divide into two camps, those preferring smaller lights based on high energy density lithium batteries and those preferring larger form factors and longer running using rechargeable nicad and nimh cells. I felt that it would be advantageous to develop a basic platform which could accommodate a range of sizes, power levels and run times. Furthermore, it would be desirable to be able to do this using the same basic components without multiple costly or cumbersome modifications. 

I feel that while this project is the first of its kind demonstration of this particular balance of portability, scalability and output, the state of knowledge of these battery and bulb systems is advancing rapidly. As a result, it would not be a stretch to envision a CPF world a short time from now where there would be plenty of functional and varied examples of this approach piercing the darkness. 

*Acknowledgements:*
_Otokoyama_ for taking my internal frame design and raising it to a level of amazing functionality. I am indebted to him for his generous contributions of time and advice. This project could not have become a reality without his collaboration and masterful machining.
_Chief Wiggum_ for his kindness in providing the very first pre-prototype of the heart of Aurora and showing to me that it could be done.
_**** Deery_ for his interest in custom lights, his ideas and the machine work on the light body.
_Chuck Gant_ at DynamoElectrics for his advice about batteries and pack building.
_Those before me_ who have lighted the way and given me the Hot Wire fever. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif This includes Kenshiro and the example of his insane Ken4.

*Main Event* - Without further ado, here's the skinny.

*Body* 
What can I say? Love them or hate them, the Mag bodies are fabulous modding fodder. They are ubiquitous, well studied and finely honed after millions and millions of units sold. Because of their commonness, a properly modded Mag can also be the ultimate "sleeper." I regard the 3D and 3C as the quintessential form factors. Not as stubby as the "2's" and not as ungainly as the "4's" and above. 

In this case, the choice of batteries necessitated the boring out of the ID to accommodate a triple stack of 17mm diameter cells. This resulted in one very significant issue. To sufficiently enlarge the ID, the amount of boring required resulted in the obliteration of the interior threads. A novel solution was devised which resulted in positive cap engagement and the retaining of a stock appearance. Not a single component of the Mag was left stock save for the front bezel.

*Power System* 
I decided early on that none of the battery options commonly employed in the world of torches would be able to provide the power I required or survive the abuse I had planned. Knowing this, I looked into the world of RC Flying. These guys are at the cutting edge of power delivery and current demand and I was able to learn a ton by reading and researching. An 11-cell pack should deliver a solid 12V+ right in the heart of the discharge curve for a high-power 12V bulb. 

My investigations led me to 4/5A cells as an almost ideal form factor. Slightly shorter than a D, they'd allow a decent packing density in a D-body (with some boring). The maximum useful continuous power delivery of 10 amps was also consistent with the maximum current demand of the finest incan bulbs available. The cells are soldered together and ultrafine 13AWG silicone wire was used for the connectors. The bridges at the two turns at the ends of the pack are hand-formed from thick copper strip. All these efforts were taken to minimize resistance. Charging duties are handled by the Hitec CG-340 nicad/nimh charger which handles 4-16 cells serially. The CG-340 is driven by a regulated 13.8V/13 amp DC power supply. A benefit of this particular design is that it places both the positive and negative connectors at the rear of the torch. Recharging the pack is as simple as removing the tailcap and clipping on the leads from the charger. 









*Light Engine*
My own research and conversations with Kenshiro led me to believe that that the Osram HLX Xenon bulbs were the absolute finest high output incandescents available. In testing, they have certainly acquitted themselves. I chose the G6.35 base because of the robust pin setup (except when dropped) and ready availability of compact, high power socket bases. The 12V models offered a broad range of options from 30W to 100W. 

*Switch*
Obviously the stock Mag switch would have to go. The challenge was not 2 or 3 amps but 8-10 and there was little doubt the stocker would be unsuitable if not unsafe. My first choice was a very cool keyed cylinder lock switch. Unfortunately, while it was almost a direct drop-in through the Mag switch hole, I had doubts about its ability to handle the current. I then settled on a miniature power rocker rated for 10A. The action is positive and silky smooth. All wiring was done with ultrafine 13AWG silicone insulated wire. Connectors were insulated, weathertite blade type crimpable. All permanent connections were soldered using silver-bearing solder. I had also obtained some SPDT miniature switches to allow a resistored circuit for bleeding of the initial spike voltage from the battery pack and thus reduce the possibility of bulb flash. This option may be implemented in a subsequent revision as might a voltage regulation circuit with soft start.





*Head Assembly*
The stock Mag head would provide for the ultimate "sleeper" and would require little more than the replacement of the stock plastic reflector with a Carley RF1940 aluminum unit and the stock lens with a borofloat unit from Flashlightlens.com. However, since these high-powered bulbs are larger than standard flashlight bulbs and have larger filaments, the small 2" reflector would result in poor collection and collimation. In a word, great flood but poor throw. So, since I had a Carley RF2102 3" reflector lying around, I consulted with Oto and he was able to turn it into a very special MagDaddy to mate up with the threaded bore of the bulb frame. This design is able to accommodate fine positional adjustments of the frame as well as provide a wide focusing range and precise filament centering. The light output is approximately the same with either head. The one you choose is simply a matter of the desired effect.





The bulb frame was the other tricky part of the design. It had to fit solidly into the bore of the Mag but allow positional adjustments of the bulb socket in two dimensions to facilitate filament centering. Oto accomplished this by providing two sets of set screws and a unique bulb socket holding ring. A very nice piece of work. This man is an artist and a craftsman.

*Beamshotz*
If you've made it this far, hooray! Ok, so here are the beamshots. All picture sets taken with locked exposure using a Sony DCR-120BT digital videocam in 1.5MP digipic mode. Exposure was adjusted to minimize washout of the Aurora spot and all are unretouched. All shots taken with the 3" head.

This a shot of my living room. About 16' corner to corner. The Mag18 is a Mag 4C with a WA01318 powered by 4.5 lithium cells. This is a robust, popular and bright combo with an estimated output of 550 bulb lumens. Then there's my trusty SF L4 and the Streamlight 20-XP LED on loan from S4MadMan himself. I really like the 20-XP LED for it's functionality and excellent runtime with one of my hi-cap packs. The Vector 2 Million Candlepower is a popular, high performing handheld rechargeable 12V spotlight. It uses an axial filament 100W bulb in a 6" reflector.









Here's a shot showing the difference in beam pattern between the 2" and 3" heads at tightest focus and 6' from a white wall. Paradoxically, it looks like the 2" spot is tighter and I can't explain that. In actual use though, there is not much difference under 10' but beyond that, the hotspot diffuses very rapidly to "wall of light" using the Mag head.





Here are some S4MadMan garage door beauty shots. SF L4, SL-20XP and Mag18 then the V2MCP and Aurora. That white stuff on the ground is snow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif









And now the "lighting up the front of my house" shot. The large-ish filament in the Aurora makes for a seemingly diffuse hotspot but the appearance is deceptive. The digital camera shows the cores of the hotspots as nearly equivalent and that's pretty good for a 3" versus a 6" reflector. It lights up trees and houses just as far as the V2MCP but brighter and over a larger area. From one corner, the Aurora was able to illuminate the _entire_ backyard of my half acre lot. Thus, I found its output more useful. It's amazing that the Aurora can make both the hotspot _and_ the spill of the Vector look weak by comparison. 





Just for chuckles, Aurora versus one of the headlamps on my Subaru WRX. The bulbs are Hella Optilux 80/100. The 100W high beam is depicted here. You can see that the faceted reflector of the WRX headlamps does exactly what it should, provide a fairly sharp vertical cutoff. In terms of light output though, it's not even close. I have no doubt that should the need ever arise, I could drive quite nicely for about 7 minutes continuously using the Aurora as a headlamp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif





*Next Steps*
I am very pleased with how this project turned out. I was pretty burnt out of the same old mods until I decided to shoot for the stars. Along the way, I got to mix minds with some excellent folks and that's worth as much as the actual product. You can check out the Teaser Thread and the <a href="www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=430175&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1" target="_blank">Battery Test Thread</a> to read a little more about Aurora.

What's next for this project. Well, I am pretty satisfied with the basic design although there are certainly aspects that could be refined. I would also like to make an adapter plate for the switch to allow easier swapping of different types. Ie., keylock, SPST, SPDT, etc. I'm itching to make the _big_ version of this light, the Supernova. 10,000 lumens in a Mag 6D body. 

I have identified some very promising 50W and 65W axial bulbs and I'm trying to get a few. I'm interested in the effect of axial versus horizontal filament orientation on spot formation as well as a longer running 2,000 lumen hand torch. 

Additionally, I am _considering_ designing a drop-in kit for those with MagChargers/Mag Ds. It may or may not use the MagCharger body but could take advantage of the much simpler MC charging cradle. For those with charging capability, the Mag D kit would be a nice option. Both of these kits would use selected and streamlined variants of the Aurora components. Since useable runtime would be more of an issue with an actual use light rather than this proof of concept, the power level would be dropped down make use of the proven and potent PowerStream 1/2D nicad cells or the 3.5Ah nimh 1/2Ds in a 6V configuration. Still, I'd expect to be able to provide up to 40 minutes at 750 lumens all the way up to 20 minutes at 1,500 lumens. While the size of the bulbs precludes laserlike throw, there simply will be no rechargeable tubular torch capable of matching this system for raw output. Also thinking about a "from scratch" slim high powered incan torch. 

Hmm, then there's that tethered head attached to a belt mounted battery bandolero I've been wanting to make. Hehe, I guess the Hot Wire Fun just never ends! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey


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## Justintoxicated (Feb 24, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxgun.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif


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## treek13 (Feb 24, 2004)

Wow!!!!!!!!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
Pat


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## tvodrd (Feb 24, 2004)

Awsome! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Larry


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## chalo (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Very impressive; I like it! 

How long does it take to recharge? 

And does your vision return during that time? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chalo Colina


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## darkgear.com (Feb 24, 2004)

Amazing work Ginseng. We need make a Hot Wire trophy and have an awards ceremony /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That beam shot against the headlights of yer WRX is unreal.

Keep up the good work! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Randy


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## Chief_Wiggum (Feb 24, 2004)

Very nice, Wilkey. I've been looking forward to seeing this light come to life. Great work!


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## MR Bulk (Feb 24, 2004)

I ditto Larry's comment!


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## Ginseng (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Thanks for the kind words guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chalo,
The pack takes different amounts of time depending on charge rate. Once the packs are broken in, I use 0.5A steady until termination. That'd be about 2.5 hours I guess. I have charged it at 1A and that takes about an hour, I think. If you accidentally sweep it against a white wall in front of you, you are quite blinded for a few seconds. It's borderline painful.

Larry and Charlie,
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wilkey


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## Hoghead (Feb 24, 2004)

That is awesome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif


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## bryguy42 (Feb 24, 2004)

You should offer welding goggles as an option with these... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## evan9162 (Feb 24, 2004)

Yikes..

Flawless victory!


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## Pi_is_blue (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif


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## Sway (Feb 24, 2004)

Wilkey that is truly some exceptional work that puts you at the pinnacle of Mag modding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif 

PayPal on the way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Later
Sway


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## cheesehead (Feb 25, 2004)

FANTASTIC, the use of the mag form factor is also very appealing-just perfect IMHO. You can always make a larger light brighter than a Vector 2 mil, but to do it with a 3D size is just amazing. Slick, very very slick. Well worth the wait, I really enjoyed the results. Funny, the Aurora has the same beam of the 600 watt 50 hour aircraft landing light I was playing with, but with the one obvious difference,... that it's from a 3D mag, amazing ! ! ! WOW ! ! ! VERY COOL ! ! !

cheese


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## Tweek (Feb 25, 2004)

Now that is inspiring! I am truly jealous! I may have to attempt to clone it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Chris


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## rumar (Feb 25, 2004)

OK. Where do we go from here? What is the next pinnacle?


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## AilSnail (Feb 25, 2004)

Very nice to see this come to fruits.
you have tried some different bulbs of the same type (projector) in those two reflectors.
Now, what is your opinion, do you get considerably more throw with the higher output bulbs?

Bootiful pack, whats with the clay thing? epoxy? 
can you do some more pics of the internals and machining details?


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## Rothrandir (Feb 25, 2004)

*<font color="red">holy</font>* sneeze!!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif


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## [email protected] (Feb 25, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## kakster (Feb 25, 2004)

Holy cow!


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## Frenchyled (Feb 25, 2004)

Wowwwwwwwww, my eyes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
It's a terrific project !! 

How much do you think of making it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
And about the sell price /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


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## Kiessling (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

simply amazing .... and a very good post btw!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
bernhard


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## chr00t (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Holy wow! Can you compare the MagCharger with WA01160 bulb to Aurora.

I would like buy one.. Paypal ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## PeterW (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Can we have some long distance throw shots? 3100lumen Mag Sleeper......... can't wait to roast some eyeballs!

I guess there is very little space ABOVE 'the bar' for better Mag D mods now. 

Well done and savour the moment!

PEterW

PS A Black anodised 3" on a black Mag..... sweet!


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## Luke (Feb 25, 2004)

Hey ...A Scoobyman as well!!! God dont they drink gas!!!

I love your conversion. Are you going to sell the lights??? This would be a great torch for me.

Cheers 


Luke (Prodrive legacy wagon single turbo. Around 270BHP)


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## PeterW (Feb 25, 2004)

After looking at the Osram bulbs. Do you seriously mean we could have 9000lumens out of the is thing?? The 250W 24V bulb is spec'd at that level?? I suppose that would need the 6D body. Any idea about the heat peoblem and runtime??

PEterW


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## MenaceSQL (Feb 25, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## jtice (Feb 25, 2004)

Gin, 
I have been waiting to see this for a while.
All the prior info you had been giving us made it sound like a really nice, bright light was going to be created.

Well, that was all wrong.
This is a * REALLY nice and REALLY bright* light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif

Simply breath taking. 
That think looks like its cranking out 7 million CP. !!!


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## StoneDog (Feb 25, 2004)

Very impressive Ginseng. Very professional and an excellent write-up. Very impressive indeed.

Jon


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## Psychomodo (Feb 25, 2004)

Hey Ginseng, couldn't you make it just a "little" brighter?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Seriously - that is one SERIOUS light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

$? How much? When available? (Me want one). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## jdriller (Feb 25, 2004)

Unable to see. (Owwwww) Bright light, bright light.

No words,

Excellent project!


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## Icebreak (Feb 25, 2004)

Wilkey -

I like your open structure planning that allowed for discovery and adaptation resulting in a unit that outperforms the goal and has never been seen before.

Can it make toast?

- Jeff


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## Ginseng (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Cheesy,
I'm still anxious to see how that landing light works out for you. 600W is right in the range of Sway's Ultra Osram version of the Nelco I think and that was mind blowing.

Tweek,
I'd love to see another person's take on this particular challenge. I can say that there is not a spare cubic centimeter inside this torch. It was very difficult cramming everything in.

Ail, 
I have tried a 12V55W H3 automotive bulb in there as well and the throw is a little less due to the lower brightness. But it was still the brightest thing I'd ever seen until the 100W went in there. I am trying to get a hold of some 50-90W axials so we'll see if that helps in collimation and throw. As for the battery pack, i stripped the shrink from each cell then soldered them. I then wrapped each stack in high temperature acrylic tape. Then I lined up the three stacks and glued them together with RTV silicone. After that set for a day or two, I wrapped the joints and ends in Kapton/silicone tape for toughness and abrasion resistance. I had to use the very expensive Kapton tape because nothing else was thin enough and strong enough. As for the internals, I think I'd like to keep that slightly under wraps for now until I can decide whether or not to make kits. I hope you understand.

Frenchy,
All in all, exclusive of the charger (which I use for bunch of other lights and packs as well), the project cost about $150 in parts and labor. Maybe a bit more if you count miscellaneous consumables. I don't think I'd sell this prototype...for one, it's bright green and I love it too much!

Kiessling,
Thanks!

PeterW,
Thanks. My digital video camera is poor at taking longer distance shots. I guess it's a video cam first and a digicam second. It's a lot of fun lighting treetops though. The V2MCP makes a small bright spot in the middle of a big oak 250' away. The Aurora lights up the entire canopy. It's unreal. The machinist who did the body is capable of doing HA. We had talked about stripping the body and getting HA3 on it but I was too anxious to finish the project.

Luke,
I get 20MPG when driving briskly. 25MPG calmly. My friend gets 15-17MPG on the track. I am extremely jealous about your car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif We're getting the Legacy 2.5 turbo (250HP) this spring in the US but it's not like a Prodrive tuned vehicle. You must be in the UK or OZ? How about a trade? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif My dream would be a bored and stroked H6 motor TT in a Legacy. The perfect family sedan and M5 killer.

PeterW,
It would be possible to get the 9,000 lu bulb in a 6D. Triple stacks of 7 cells would provide the power. It would get very hot very fast though. The entire head assembly near the bulb frame gets almost too hot to touch during a full power 100W runtime test. I would rather put the cells on a belt pack and run a tether to a chopped Magtube as the remote light head.

Ticey, Stone,
Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Psych-komodo,
Thinking about a kit. Timeframe unknown.

Wilkey


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## PeterW (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

It'd be interesting to see what 10000lumens (Osram54045) would do in a 3" head. Only worry would be plastic insulation and solder joints at that heat, you'd need high temperature wire and high Temp solder. I see that the higher power bulbs are larger, would this affect the throw much? Probably need to use thermal compound or thermal conductive silicone (dow Corning) to ensure good flow into the head. (Silicones are cool, I use them for a variety of jobs at work for high and low temp applications).

As far as battery belts..... makes you feel like Batman. "Fanny packs"...... no thanks, especially if you know what it translates to in (UK) english. 

I was pleasantly surprised that the bulbs are so cheap.... I trust you can extend the runtime by putting a lower wattage bulb in it??

Hot Wire it... till it melts. At the end of the day, we all know that a light of this kind is most likely to be used a a demonstration tool and short bursts ("Your Mag must be a dud...."!, not for serious longer term usage. (Battery life being the limiting factor).

You might as well go the whole hog.... Charlie broke the 10,000lux barrier, might as well go for the 10,000 lumen one in a 6D. I advise you clamp the light down and remotely operate it to prevent electric shocks and 1st degree burns. 

PEterW

PS If it can handle 10,000lumens then I'd take one!!


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## SilverFox (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Hello Wilkey,

Excellent.

A Mag sleeper that will sear some eyebrows...

I like it.

Tom


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## PaulW (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Wilkey,

It’s difficult to make any comment on your work that doesn’t end up being an understatement. But let me try to describe my reaction to what you have shared here. 

This is some kind of superb work. You have conceived and built a beautiful illumination system. And it has substantial flexibility in using alternative power supplies and light outputs, ranging from powerful and practical brilliant superlights to breath-taking stunners for exhibition. BTW, I like your use of the phrase “exhibition runtime.” “Exhibition” is such a friendly way of really saying “show-off.” /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The presentation is excellent as well. It’s clear and a delight to read, with useful information for flashaholics at all levels of expertise. I particularly like the _Background_ – a concise summary that’s essential for people not completely familiar with hot-wires, but is not available elsewhere.

You’ve made a substantial leap. I think it’ll be the basis for further work for a long time to come. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Paul


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## js (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Ginseng,

Yes, well, you know you're not a real flashaholic, though, because you only EDC one light.

*NOT!*

Wilkey,

I can only imagine the amount of research and development and imagination that this must have required. I also imagine that you had a load of fun! What an awesome way to spend $150!

I am very, very impressed Wilkey. You are truly an inspiration. Those beam shots are out of this world bright. I love that you totally redid the interior complete with new switch and lamp socket and wiring and solder. That battery pack looks way high-speed low-drag.

As a "concept" torch, this is above and beyond the call in terms of both quality and quantity (of light). I would love to hear more about the details of the fixture that holds the light, and especially about your plan for a "soft-start" bleeder circuit and/or solid state regulation (a la W. Hunt's Voltage Regulators).

We are all lucky to have you on CPF; you have proven yourself more than once as one of the flashlight mod masters, but this is awe inspiring. A quality mod with high output and careful attention to detail.

It simply does not get any better than this.

If you ever offer kits or lights it would be an honor to own one of them. As they say, "PayPal ready." I am impressed, Wilkey. Very, very impressed. Awesome.

Awesome.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## S4MadMan (Feb 25, 2004)

WOW!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I want one. Sending PayPal now... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

I'll e-mail ya. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


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## DumboRAT (Feb 25, 2004)

OK, the even the PICTURES hurt my eyes !

This thing rocks ! 

OK, I'd love a turn-key, too, LOL. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif A boy can dream, right ?!

Allen
aka DumboRAT


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## MR Bulk (Feb 25, 2004)

Let's be succinct here: if turnkey me buy.


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## js (Feb 25, 2004)

Oh dear, but Ginseng, you must not have heard.

I'm sorry to be the one to break this to you,

but . . . this is going to be upsetting, and I don't know how to say it, so I'll just say it.

Incandescents are dead.

Many knowledgeable CPFers have said so. It must be true. Funny, that. Can't seem to fit project Aurora together with that statement. Overload. Does not make sense. Error.


----------



## Luke (Feb 25, 2004)

Wilkey

yep ..here in Uk. Scoobs are coming to the end of a fine run. Too many been sold for peanuts have lowered the owner quality. So getting a bad reputation. Can pick up a nice Jap WRX for $6300 no probs!! Check out www.scoobnet.co.uk. Biggest and best subaru forum.


So come on lets talk... How many $$$ to get one made up and shipped.. Forget the US you need the Kudos of having one of your "Gucci kit monsters" here in the UK !!!

Cheers 

luke


----------



## PeterW (Feb 25, 2004)

Quick question. How does the Aurora hold up against the 2MP Vector in the 200 to 4ooyd department. Just want to see how is compares to other Kenishiro type superlights. 

PEterW


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 25, 2004)

*Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

Icey,
Again, your phraseology is unique and your comments appreciated.

PaulW,
You are as eloquent as you are generous. You always seem to read the words behind my words. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

JS,
So, are you ready to stop playing with those tiny little WA bulbs and move up to the bright stuff? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif The fixture is already being redesigned. Presently, you cannot re-center the bulb without taking the frame out of the torch. While there is some small degree of tweaking you can do during insertion, you cannot compensate for gross misalignments. The HLX bulbs, though, are quite well made and well centered but I cannot vouch for other items. Once I can proto the new design, we'll know better what it might take to do a run of some components. Incans are sort of a dinosaur technology...let's say, analogous to the big block V8s of the American Musclecar era. I drive a small displacement turbo and I love it but I feel just a bit teenier below the waist when the fellow from my car club starts up his kit Cobra. The rumble out those side pipes is just frightening.

Luke,
I know about Scoobnet. I think I'm even registered there. Great forum with knowledgeable guys. Over here we've got the NASIOC and i-Club. Hehe, let me tally up...

PeterW,
The V2MCP lights up the houses at the end of my block and they are about 600-ish feet away. Not brightly, but you can see things. It's a bit hard to really judge because of the lone streetlight at that end of the block. The Aurora lights things up just as well, but over a larger area. I think the 3" reflector and the higher output sort of balance each other out at extreme ranges. I've probably got to find a large, dark space to really check things out. Neither light would have a chance against a big reflectored monster like the Blitz240 or Sway's Blitz HID conversion

Wilkey.


----------



## Sutro_SoundWerks (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

And I thought your MC packs were sweet. SWEET!
Put me on the kit list. SSW


----------



## bwaites (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

Me too!!

Bill


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

One kick @rse light Ginny! TK sounds good to me.


----------



## NightStorm (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*

Neither light would have a chance against a big reflectored monster like the Blitz240 or Sway's Blitz HID conversion



[/ QUOTE ]

Well Wilkey,

You might not be able to "cook a bird in flight", but you could definitely singe it's feathers with that thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Beautiful job and well thought out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif Looks likes it time for me to start lurking around the RC forums for some tips on battery configurations. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dan


----------



## Sway (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

[ QUOTE ]
*PercaDan said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*

Neither light would have a chance against a big reflectored monster like the Blitz240 or Sway's Blitz HID conversion



[/ QUOTE ]

Well Wilkey,

You might not be able to "cook a bird in flight", but you could definitely singe it's feathers with that thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Beautiful job and well thought out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif Looks likes it time for me to start lurking around the RC forums for some tips on battery configurations. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dan 

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to beat a big honking reflector for collecting light and getting it going in the right direction. The 2MCP Vector has a large reflector “Dang it’s a big light” but look at the close up beam shots Aurora is hanging with it in the much smaller [email protected] package. 

A small axial filament light engine would really tighten up the spot especially in Oto’s 3” Turbo head and increase throw maybe beyond that of the Vector as Aurora can be focused and the Vector is fixed somewhere between spot an flood. 

Very interesting work Wilkey you are closing in on the true hand held light incandescent light saber /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Eh, you already have it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Later
Sway


----------



## maddog (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

just plain awsome!!! count me in for one if you sell!


----------



## nybble (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

WOW! That is amazing, really amazing. Count me in if you decide to sell them as turnkey units (I can barely put batteries in a flashlight much less do anything more than that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )


----------



## Orion (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

I guess the more important question, when it comes to wanting to buy one, would be the cost to do this. I can't imagine that it would be at all cheap. Probably a pretty high cost light. Can you ballpark what it would cost an individual for them to buy one of these from you, if you decided to make them?


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

Orion,
The batteries are a good chunk at about $35 for the cells alone. Then it takes a significant amount of effort to build the packs. As for machined components, I'm reasonably sure I can get the body boring done pretty inexpensively for a batch of say, half a dozen. The most expensive component would then be the head, however. The head is Otokoyama's MagDaddy conversion of a Carley 3" reflector. This item is complex and includes a 3" lens. I have not really spoken with him about this right now because he's in the middle of his PMR build and I know that occupies his time immensely.

The most significant hurdle to ownership would not be the cost, I think, but rather the requirement of a capable charging system. About equivalent in cost would be the Maha 777+ or the CG-340+DC power supply. In either case, the charging system would be flexible enough to be used for many other applications besides the Aurora.

Also, I have to decide whether to offer a 6V version or the full 12V version. The 6V pack could be removed and charged in a MagCharger if one had an MC. Runtime could be the same with either unit. Some 6V bulbs draw in excess of 9 amps and some 12V bulbs draw just over 4 amps. I would think 20 minutes at 1,700 lumens would be a good target but I guess I could make the full-out version available too. That's about what the 12V55W H3 test load puts out and it is still very bright. 

If it sounds like I'm hedging, that's true. I have not yet put out for quote to do a short run. In any case, I don't foresee making more than 6 or 8 units in total. Considering the TK Mag HID cost around $225 and _only_ makes 500 lumens, I'd say it would cost cost a bit more than that. Heck, you could even get a few spare bulbs as part of the package.

Wilkey


----------



## BC0311 (Feb 26, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Simply awesome! That comparison shot with your Subaru's headlamp knocked me out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Outstanding, Ginseng!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Britt


----------



## PeterW (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

You might as well do a generic unit which can take a range of bulbs at 6 or 12V. When you get quotes, see how what kind of volume discount you can get. I feel this is one light that will not have a lack of takers. I for one would go for the 100W unit with swappable heads, I can buy my own charger, so no worries and the bulbs seem pretty available too. Please try to keep the cost resonable, not all of us super light fanatics have deep pockets, we tend to buy (lots) of other lights too. We understand this is a lot of work on the construction front and will wait patiently for what you feel you can offer.

Best of luck with the design, keep us upto date.

PEterW


----------



## js (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
JS,
So, are you ready to stop playing with those tiny little WA bulbs and move up to the bright stuff? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif The fixture is already being redesigned. Presently, you cannot re-center the bulb without taking the frame out of the torch. While there is some small degree of tweaking you can do during insertion, you cannot compensate for gross misalignments. The HLX bulbs, though, are quite well made and well centered but I cannot vouch for other items. Once I can proto the new design, we'll know better what it might take to do a run of some components. Incans are sort of a dinosaur technology...let's say, analogous to the big block V8s of the American Musclecar era. I drive a small displacement turbo and I love it but I feel just a bit teenier below the waist when the fellow from my car club starts up his kit Cobra. The rumble out those side pipes is just frightening.

Wilkey. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ginseng, I know you were just kidding, but the answer is an emphatic "NO!" As impressive as Project Aurora is, it is not up my alley. I'd love to own one of these, yes, but I don't feel driven to do something similar. I'll leave that to you.

As for incandescent being "dinosaur technology" comparable to the big block V8 engines of the muscle car era, I have to disagree with you here. If you look at very demanding applications, such as racing, or tractor trailers, and so on, you will not find that brute force mentality of "let's just make a bigger engine" for the simple reason that a bigger engine is also heavier. No. You will find turbo-chargers, and intercoolers and who knows what else (not me). I do not think it is apt to lump everything into the broad category of "incans" and then call it dinosaur technology. I would say that the Vector 2 million candlepower spot light is much closer to being comparable to the big block V8 muscle car. It is using SLA batteries, which are really not high tech and not appropriate for this application, given their current-voltage-discharge characteristics. It is a brute force light. Cheap, and something to reckon with, but obviously easily surpased by Aurora, in a smaller, better package.

You have a turbo-charged light here, or maybe a nitrous oxide light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It is more in the tradition of stock car racing, right? Take a production package and max it out in every conceivable way to obtain the highest performance. This is what you have done, and there is as much difference between it and big block V8 muscle cars, as there is between a stock car racer and a muscle car. Such as the ability to steer and brake. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

[ QUOTE ]
*PeterW said:*
Please try to keep the cost resonable, not all of us super light fanatics have deep pockets, we tend to buy (lots) of other lights too. We understand this is a lot of work on the construction front and will wait patiently for what you feel you can offer.
PEterW 

[/ QUOTE ]

PeterW,
I'm one of you guys Peter. I have to ration my flashlight funds pretty carefully. In fact, I was trying to figure out if I could sell enough stuff to finance a SF U2 (I can't at this time) so I can commiserate. The amount of work involved precludes any economies of scale on short runs but I'll see what I can do. In any case, it won't be a moneymaking endeavor. At this scale, it's something done for love of lights and to contribute something to the community.

Jim,
I'd like to think I'm aspiring to build the WRC of flashlights but I think SureFire has that locked up. Maybe Club Rally then.

Wilkey


----------



## brightnorm (Feb 26, 2004)

Ginseng,

Truly inspired, dream fulfillment type of stuff. I hope you may eventually be able to provide "Turnkey" editions.

Brightnorm


----------



## Ginseng (Feb 26, 2004)

*Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

Thanks Norm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I just secured a supply of some very nice axial filament bulbs and will have them in hand in about two weeks. They'll only make about 2,000 lumens but it will be interesting to see how the filament orientation affects throw in Oto's AuroraDaddy head. The nice thing is the runtime will stretch out to almost 25 minutes continuous.

Wilkey


----------



## PeterW (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

Cheers wilkey, you are a star. I agree we are pushing battery technology hard on this one. Also a big cheers to Osram, 3100lumens from 100w is 31lumens/watt, this is the same level as a good LED e.g 150lumens for a 5W. OK LEDs will eventually get far better, but not at the 100W level and not for a long time. These Osrams are something special.

Good to be able to 'hot swap' the bulb to change the runtime, smart one!

PEter W

PS Like to compare your little light against anything from Surefire in a dark field......


----------



## UVLaser (Feb 28, 2004)

A hand held SUN!!
COOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
I wonder what would happen if you aim it at a helicopter or a plane /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif


----------



## Sway (Mar 5, 2004)

Wilkey,

What’s up with the axial filaments, have you received them yet. And are you going to share your source /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif

Later /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 
Sway


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 5, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Oh sure. I ordered Osram 64447 IRC AX and 64440 IRC AX from Purelandsupply. Expect to pay through the nose. They were roughly $12 and $9 bucks, respectively. Very efficient though. Almost as efficient as the 64623. They have been ordered from Germany. Will be due in another week or two.

I think they are bringing in a box of 20. These would be the only ones in the country. Can you believe it? Even Osram's official US distributor could not get them.

I'll let you know if they're worth the money. 

I had also thought about ordering the 64458 AX and 64450 AX but their efficiencies were crap. 19-20 Lu/W.

Wilkey


----------



## Illuminated (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Wilkey,

This project is waaayy over the top! I can't imagine all the hours of research and developement that you put into this - but to say that the results are "impressive" would be kind of like saying that the ocean is "big". It just doesn't seem to convey the magnitude how "impressive" your Project Aurora really is...

Nice work - John


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

Thanks John,
Tha means a lot coming from you. I respect your knowledge and your work. In fact, I've been thinking about how to incorporate some aspects of your killer regulated bike light into a subsequent revision. 
Wilkey


----------



## brightnorm (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
...They'll only make about 2,000 lumens but... 

[/ QUOTE ]

Could we even have imagined this statement a few months ago?

Brightnorm


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 9, 2004)

*Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Well,
I couldn't leave well enough alone. I was itching to try the high-output bulb in Aurora and on the second try, managed to get it to work without instantly melting the filament. This bulb is running slightly overdriven at 12.53V and making roughly 4,000-4,100 lumens. 

This is a photo taken with my digi-video cam of comparative shots in my backyard. It is roughly 200' to those treetops. One interesting thing to note is that the focus is quite a bit better with this bulb and the color is also significantly whiter. I'm very pleased with the result as the hotspot is just insanely bright and the secondary corona is huge and intensely bright. The tertiary spill is sufficient to light up everything else in front of the torch.

I had hoped to take some 400' shots out by the retention pond but #1 it was too cold and #2 it was a little too late.






Wilkey


----------



## Psychomodo (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


I WANT ONE.............NOW!!!!!


----------



## jtice (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

That is simply amazing.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

It's also the end of the road. If there's a way to make a 100W incandescent brighter, I don't know it. Makes me sort of wistful to be reaching this terminal mod. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

Wilkey


----------



## jtice (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Nah, its not the end yet.
Now you need to sell the kits !!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## K-T (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

This thing is evil. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## jdriller (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

WOW! A hand-held stadium light.

Wilkey, you've done it again!


----------



## js (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Wo ho ho ho hoooooo!

WOW.


----------



## BC0311 (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif

Outstanding! Ginseng! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Britt


----------



## S4MadMan (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*K-T said:*
This thing is evil. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not, it's heavenly. If God needed a flashlight, this would be it, but with longer run time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ginseng is my HERO!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## Psychomodo (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Hey Wilkey, when can I buy one (turnkey or kit)? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Colin


----------



## MoonRise (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Speechless, simply speechless. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Runtime vs brightness, hmmm, Ginseng chooses LIGHT! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

7 minute runtime, sheesh. The batteries are dead -AND- the dang thing is now too hot to hold. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif


----------



## Illuminated (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I *thought* I smelled woodsmoke last night... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif


----------



## Sway (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Wilkey,

Now your whoopin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif on the Vector light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## IsaacHayes (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

hahah. I like it. That 4K is neat. Imagine bringing out your flashlight to a bunch of cops and they see you have just a plain mag light. They might laugh. Turn it on and bam! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Super-sleeper. Ultamite toy.


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I will speak with Oto after his PMR and MagDaddy runs are all done. I would love to make a limited run of maybe 4-6 units but it's up to him. I can build everything else, but the special AuroraMagDaddy head assembly is all his. If I were to go into production, I'd offer a range of bulbs from 1,300 lumens/30 minutes up to 4,000/10 minutes. After all, some times you'd actually need to use a light this bright but other times, you just want to *Thump*! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey


----------



## DaMeatMan (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I bet bugs would literally drop dead out of the air with something like that. I've heard of it happening with lights that are alot less powerful then what your playing with. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## S4MadMan (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Hmmmm, 1,300 lumens for 30 minutes? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

I think I'll like the Mini-Aurora at 850 lumens for 1.5 hours much better. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Heh, 

You are the runtime fanatic, Dan. BTW, $10 off the TK kit for anyone who can tell me the name of the pro wrestler who had the word "Thump" on his trunks.

Wilkey


----------



## jasonbulb (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

That is simply incredible. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif


----------



## Nerd (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I bet the entire beam of the light is so hot that the path of air which it passes through is being heated up immensely and will thus cause a slight wind to form. This disturbance from the normal wind might cause unforseen weather changes in other parts of the world.

Ginseng, you are therefore charged under Section 25 Line 107 of the Constitution's law and are to hand over the light and all parts related to it over to me for safe keeping. I cannot allow you risk a nuclear war with other countries arising from the mis-use of lights for "playing around" and causing floods or droughts in other countries.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## K-T (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
(...)the TK kit(...) 

[/ QUOTE ]

We need a list just in case /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

1.one for me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 4000lm&1300lm 

Is the correct answer "Major Tom Thumb". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## yclo (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Sylvester Ritter, the "Junkyard Dog".


----------



## J_Oei (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
I would love to make a limited run of maybe 4-6 units but it's up to him. I can build everything else, but the special AuroraMagDaddy head assembly is all his. If I were to go into production, I'd offer a range of bulbs from 1,300 lumens/30 minutes up to 4,000/10 minutes. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

If you make a TK available, put me down for one! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## Psychomodo (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
I would love to make a limited run of maybe 4-6 units ...If I were to go into production, I'd offer a range of bulbs from 1,300 lumens/30 minutes up to 4,000/10 minutes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wilkey - put me down for one of them 4,000 monsters /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

(What is the recoil like? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif)

Colin


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Yc,
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif *Thump*

Nerd,
Well, there was that treatening letter from the International Atomic Energy Comission

Wilkey


----------



## TheFire (Mar 12, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I'd probably be up for most of a kit... I'd be running it in the sleeper mode with one of the PMRs. Really nice job, I thought the 500 lumen WA bulbs were something... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## PeterW (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Those beamshots remind me of a song

"I can see clearly now......" 

Good to see how crap the 2MCP Vector really is. Now I just have to hope that I haven't pestered you too much and that Oto is willing.... (please bribe him if neccessary)

Cheers, any idea of the bulb life at those outputs?

PEterW

PS Good to see a mini-Aurora from S4madman that can satisfy those people who want light but also "proper" runtime (NOT ME!)


----------



## udaman (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*S4MadMan said:*
Hmmmm, 1,300 lumens for 30 minutes? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

I think I'll like the Mini-Aurora at 850 lumens for 1.5 hours much better. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in agreement with S4MM. But I'd still like a less efficient 10w HID in a Stinger HP size format...with wide to spot focus! Now with new Li-Sulfur high capacity batteries on the near horizon, perhaps this is soon to come /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've been reading the Mag HID conversion thread and TK is stated on this thread to be $225. I guess when you're going for the superlights, sometimes you throw caution to the wind and go for all the glory(expensive!)

Only 'problem' with 10w HID, besides initial cost, and if you drop one of these suckers, oh the cost of replacement capsules /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif; is that they only output 500 lumens! Not very efficient as far as HID's. A few years from now, perhaps the LED or variants will be up to this level(we can hope).

But I'm wondering what HID is used in the Lupine bike lights at 16W, with an output of almost double at 900 lumens? Then I see that the CatEye stadium II light uses a 21w HID...would this be a WA capsule?

Edison 5/10 16w HID 900 lumens 


Now the 21w HID bulb/capsule at 1-49 quantities is a staggering $210. But look at the efficiency, 1.5k lumens!

Could this capsule be small enough to be focusable with the Mag Dadday 3in reflector? Think about the runtime in that scenario.

WA 21w HID 1.5k lumens(expensive!) 74lum/w! 

Still, as long as Ginseng is going completely bizzerk on ultra high output in a form factor smaller than Ken4 or X990. what about cramming an Osram HMI, short arc(well actually it's medium arc) 125w or 200w HMI(13,000 lumens of 5.5k CRI 80+ white light---Ken4 is only 9k, and Kenshiro did consider the 200w HMI for the Ken4) into this, arc size is a bit large and maybe you'll need an Ultra Mag Daddy 4in reflector to have anything less than flood output? Other than insanely high cost, less than a Megaray though, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif , how do you put such power into a small package? Got me to thinking, I see the WA ballasts page just shows a picture of a PCB with components, like it will only fit in a larger enclosure like a Ken4. But what if we have the circuit diagrams, could we not make a much smaller ballast?

Think about it. In todays technology, we have electronic ballasts for outdoor HID lights. Not that they are all that reliable. I had an outdoor Lights of America 70w HPS light mounted on my garage for a while in the mid '90's, never worked very well. Then when it failed to light, and was out of warranty, I took this $30 plastic pile of el cheapo, made in China, 'masterpiece' apart to see a single fried resistor. There is an electronic ballast about 3x4 inches, not particularly designed for minimal space. I think you could probably greatly reduce the size on this basic circuit board, as all of the resistors and diodes? were really small. There were none of the transformer, or large capacitors, and other components I see on the WA ballasts. So you could conceivably design a small circuit board that could start up a 70w HPS bulb in a X990 format, good for about 6k-7k lumens or double that of the X990 at 35w! No reason you should also not be able to design an electronic ballast to drive the 21w WA capsule for 1.5k lumens in a Mag D body, or maybe even smaller in a Mag C or Stinger sized body. It would be very exspensive to do this today, but I'd pay for the true 'ultimate' monster Gozilla output, semi-focusable 21w HID or 16w HID in a small package, that could run for maybe an hour. Woo Hoo! I want one. Somebody build one now!

See what you've done Ginseng! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

OK, enough of that madness. How do I cram a 10w HID into a focusable ARC 4+??? Oh, well tomorrow when I wake up to reality, I'll realize this is 2004, not 3014 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

PeterW,
I'm in discussions with Oto. It looks good for a very limited run of Aurora Evo1.1. It's hard to estimate bulb life when you're running a few minutes at a time. The low-output 3,000 lumen bulb has survived quite a few battery cycles already, I'd say easily 40+ minutes with no signs of distress or dimming. I've blown 3 of the 4,000 lumen high output bulbs so..um, bulb life is ah...unknown /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

udaman,
A very dense post that I will take some time to think about before I get back to you. I really appreciate your thoughts.

Wilkey


----------



## DumboRAT (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
It looks good for a very limited run of Aurora Evo1.1. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa ! 

Awesome -- please, tell me that this will be "turnkey" for us less technically capable modders and flashaholics....

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Allen
aka DumboRAT


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Yes Dumbo, if it flies, it will be TK. There is absolutely nothing that is left stock so it would be easiest for me to coordinate all the machining, components and assembly. You provide the charging system or pick up the recommended DC power supply and charger for about $60. 

I will post a "feeler" thread in the near future I think.

Wilkey


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Hi Udaman,
Let me see if I can respond to your very substantial post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

While the WA 10W HID bulb and ballast are too large in diameter to fit in the Stinger series, they would most likely fit in the SL-20X and SL-35X, which are Streamlight's "D" torches. Unfortunately, they use integral bulb/reflector units and thus do not have a head that has focusing threads. Fixed focus should be ok though.

$225 is tremendously inexpensive for a handheld HID. The recent DragonHID dive lights are based on the same basic engine and are over $400. I believe Ufokillerz has posted pricing on replacement lamps and they are not cheap. IIRC about 15-20 times the bulbs in the Aurora. WA makes 10, 15, 18, 22...and 50W HID's IIRC. They spec the 50W unit at 3,200 lumens which seems conservatively low but still double the luminous efficiency of the best incan bulb.

There was some pretty extensive discussion into Xenon Short Arc in the "Calling all Superlight Fanatics!" thread. I think the general conclusion was that it should provide for a stunning spot-throw capability but that portable DC ballasts in the workable voltage range were either non-existent or well over a kilobuck. 75W and 150W XSA capsules can be had relatively inexpensively on EBay (about $150 I think) but the ballast is elusive.

The type of custom-made miniaturized ballast design your talking about would be a dream come true. For the mean time, the short-Mag 10W HID is the smallest and most affordable handheld. 

As for incans, run-time, battery cost, size and spot focus are the basic concerns. 

Wilkey

PS. I went out tonight and tested the 12V50W longlife bulb overdriven to 1,500 lumens and I must say, while it's bright, it's a bit of a letdown after the "hot" bulbs. Still, good for 20+ minutes of runtime for those times when you actually need a working light. Heck, the SF 10X and M6 only run for 18-20 minutes and they are only fractionally as bright.


----------



## Psychomodo (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
Yes Dumbo, if it flies, it will be TK. There is absolutely nothing that is left stock so it would be easiest for me to coordinate all the machining, components and assembly. You provide the charging system or pick up the recommended DC power supply and charger for about $60. 

I will post a "feeler" thread in the near future I think.

Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

In anticipation of the forthcoming "feeler"/list...put me down for one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Colin


----------



## PeterW (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

3k lumens is "OK"!!! Good news with Oto. Give us a list of the Osram part numbers and a couple of bulbs with the unit, then we can go get some more when needed. Now the consumable part is not spare batteries, it is spare bulbs..... same kind of costs though.

My wife works in the UK national standards Lab measuring national standard light bulbs, she says that the specified burn time is for steady on. If you on/off cycle bulbs they fail FAR more rapidly. Maybe you could swap the polarity of the bulbs occaisionally and see if it extends the lifetime??

Cheers

PEterW

PS PM me when you want to feeler as I cannot always check CPF as aften as I would want to.


----------



## K-T (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Like Peter said, just provide us with some part numbers and I'll buy the 4k lm bulb in hundreds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Luckily I already have a charger avaiable so I wouldn't have to worry about that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## DumboRAT (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Ginseng ,

Super. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Consider me "felt" for ant coming "feeler" thread. I'm funded for this project light in TK form *now.* 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks again !

Allen
aka DumboRAT


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I would provide as many bulbs, at cost, with the kit as desired. I would also provide links to the most economical sources, and in some cases, the only sources for these and the optional bulbs.

Thanks for your interest.

Wilkey


----------



## maddog (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

YOU CAN COUNT ME IN!


----------



## naromtap (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I'm in & in awe!!!


----------



## K-T (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

This is a rather early question in the process but would we be able to choose the housing color? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Well,
The heads will either be black ano or bare silver. Aside from that, the body can be whatever color you wish.
Wilkey


----------



## Phaserburn (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

As stated before, I'm in.


----------



## K-T (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

If the heads are black, the body should be, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Well yes. I am partial to polished aluminum on a silver body though. In any case, you pick the body and the head color...as long as it's bare or black. Hey, 100% more color choices than the Model T Ford offered when it first came out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wilkey


----------



## K-T (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Hmmm...[Homer voice]...polished aluminum on a silver body...[/Homer voice] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll take that one, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## J_Oei (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

The head/body color won't matter, because as soon
as you turn it on, no one is going to be able to see it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Just make sure that the color doesn't bake off from
all the heat!

(I'm watching this thread carefully so I don't
lose my place in line) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif


----------



## naromtap (Mar 19, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

me still dreaming of owning an Aurora - I'm sure it will make me more attractive to girls, and thats without even switching it on!


----------



## Psychomodo (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## cue003 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I am very interested in one of these turnkey babies. Put me down PLEASE!!


----------



## Tweek (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Man, I just noticed I forgot to chime in on the "I want one, put me down" list! Can't miss out here... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

It's getting closer. Just a few more details to hammer out with the machinist. 

Wilkey


----------



## PaulW (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

It looks beautiful. And I haven't even seen it yet. Thanks for sticking with this, Wilkey. I hope you'll have enough to go around to everyone who wants one.

And, I think it would be really cool if each turnkey had some sort of logo on the head to indicate that it's your design. Maybe a picture or an outline of that ginseng that you once used as an avatar? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Paul

E D I T . . . Whoops. That avatar I thought was a ginseng root was actually a "an overripe Chinese bitter melon that had exploded, casting its bright red seed capsules," as you explained it. Sorry for the error. 

Maybe some other symbol. How 'bout a huge "G" or a huge "W" . . . or even an "A"? Just something on it so that on Antiques Roadshow of 2083 they'll have something to help authenticate my great grandson's treasured old flashlight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## DumboRAT (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*
It's getting closer. Just a few more details to hammer out with the machinist. 


[/ QUOTE ]

I've now started to hold my breath ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Schweeeeeet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif You know I'm definitely down for a turn-key !


Allen
aka DumboRAT


----------



## BeagleLight (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Please add me to the waiting list for a TK.


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I've just received the Osram 64440IRC axial filament bulb for testing and while it's not super bright at only 1,200-1,300 lumens, it does throw a moderately tight, perfectly circular hotspot. There is no winging or lobing whatsoever. In fact, it throws as tight of a spot with the "stealth" 2" head as the regular horizontal filament bulbs throw in the BigHead 3-incher. This bulb lives up to its promise. The 4,000 hour life bodes well for significant overdrive. I'm still waiting on the 1,700-2,000 lumen 64447IRC. I'll try to get some pictures up.

Wilkey


----------



## Psychomodo (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## lightnix (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

OOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWmyeyesmyeyesswitchitoffpleaseswitchitoffithurtsithurtsicantseeeeeeemommyyyyyyyyyyyynnnoooooooooooooooo


----------



## Ginseng (Mar 31, 2004)

*Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Here are some comparative beamshot photos of an H-bulb or horizontal filament bulb and V-bulb or vertical/axial filament bulb in the Aurora. The H-bulb in question is the Osram 64623HLX, the Aurora's 3,000 lumen LOLA. It has a larger, more rugged filament than the 64625HLX, the 4,000 lumen HOLA. The V-bulb is a very rare 12V50W Osram 64440 IRC. This bulb is a technological tour de force. It employs an infrared reflective coating, spherical capsule made of UV filtering glass and gold-plated "platinised" base pins. The axial filament is not just a plain old spiral filament supported by huge support wires. These typically result in "pie wedges" or dark slices in the beam spot and are commonly seen in HID and incandescent axial filament bulbs. If you look at the photo below carefully, you'll see that the return leg of the filament actually runs down the _inside_ of the filament coil! Amazing. 






Ok, so it's a fancy bulb. So what does all that technology get you? How about a perfectly circular, completely artifact-free spot? While at 1,200+ lumens, it is nowhere near as bright as the 64623HLX, it is still brighter than any other handheld incan torch I have. And the spot is just surreal in form. I can't wait to receive the 1,700 lumen 12V65W 64447 IRC. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Pictures are not at the same exposure. Each one is individually adjusted to best image the hotspots.





In the photo above, the somewhat soft but perfectly circular spot of the IRC bulb is clearly visible. The 64623HLX's central hotspot is just overwhelming though. While it is circular, there are diffuse lobes on either side (as hinted at by the pulsar-like light jets at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock) but I just couldn't get them to image. You can also see very faint hints of the H-filament as alternating dark and light radial rays in the secondary hotspot. The central hotspot was just too intense for the CCD in my digicam.

Right now, these axial bulbs are scarce...and expensive. About $12 a pop. So at this stage, they are somewhere between a novelty and a special application bulb only. The specs imply an exceptional tolerance for overdrive and I intend to test this in the coming weeks.

Wilkey


----------



## bwaites (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Alright, already, you're driving us NUTS!!

So when can we get these and how much?

Bill


----------



## Tweek (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Mmmmmm, overdrive.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif This little project just keeps getting better and better... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

Chris


----------



## cue003 (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

I want the mac-daddy best overall version.


----------



## js (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

WOW! Ginseng, this is just awesome. You have found the Holy Grail of incan lamps! I take it back. I am ready to stop fooling around with the dim, weak, WA lamps. I want OSRAM! OSRAM! OSRAM! I'll pay lots of money for one. I want it now. NOW I say! Gold plated PLATINUM? IR reflective coating? Axial inner return lead? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Wilkey, this is too cool. Talk about the perfect beam!

BTW, do you still want me to mod some RF1940's on the lathe?


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Yes, Jim,

I do believe I'll need some help for the "stealth" head components. That is no doubt the freakiest looking bulb I've ever seen. Seems like something one would see in a mad scientist's lab /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I've been playing with this bulb and it casts a beam pattern that I've only seen one other light engine cast: A high-bin 5-W Luxeon in a Mag reflector. 

Wilkey

Wilkey


----------



## bwaites (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Ginseng, whats the deal?

Dates for delivery? start of turn keys?

Bill


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Bill,

I hope to post a thread soon. I can provide a ballpark estimate but prefer to get a more precise number from Otokoyama, the principal machinist. Bear with me. This is one of those things that just takes a little time. I'm also redesigning the electrical subsystem so it'll be more robust and easy to charge. Consider this an improved V1.1 release.

Wilkey


----------



## bwaites (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Thats Great, just trying to figure out my finances so I can budget the purchase and having time helps!

Bill


----------



## DumboRAT (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Ginseng,

I'm one of those guys who is used to waiting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif My other big hobby is custom knives, so, LOL, I'm somewhat used to the wait. 

Don't worry about how long it takes - at least that's my point of view - just make us all proud by turning out the finest handheld nuclear-powered retina-scorcher possible today. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

I'm in for the long run. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Oh, and BTW, if I were to state a personal preference, yup, I'm all for the super-high-output. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Screw run-time, this one is meant to hurt !

LOL. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks again for tackling this project as a turnkey for us less mechanically inclined flashaholics.

Allen
aka DumboRAT


----------



## PeterW (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

...makes a beam like a 5W in a Mag.... oh so it performs like a SpaceNeedle??? Goodie, though at <<3000lumens there really isn't much point ;-)

PEterW

I need a light that SCARES people!


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Hey Wilkey - this project just gets better and better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Don't forget that I'm in the line for a TK when it's ready! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## cue003 (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

I am more and more impressed everytime i read this thread. I am for sure in for a TK solution. No problem with waiting.


----------



## Tweek (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Yes, I have no problem waiting either. You just can't rush a masterpiece! Now get crackin'! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Between waiting for one of these and for my VIP, I don't know what I'm gonna do, too much anticipation!

Chris


----------



## xochi (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

I'm interested as well. I don't have any of the big stuff yet.


----------



## cue003 (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Just making sure I didn't miss the "availability" thread or something since Ginseng said he was going to start another thread. If he did, I can't find it. Thanks.


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Soon, Cue. We're working on it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wilkey


----------



## FNinjaP90 (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

I can't believe I didn't catch this thread in the last month and a half! Put me down for the 4000lm turnkey! I'm guessing the battery pack is NIMH right? Will both an HAIII head and an HAIII body be available? Thanks.


----------



## brightnorm (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Hi Wilkey,

Please put me down for the most reliable, idiot-proof TK version. Longer RT is a plus as long as too many precious lumens aren't sacrificed.

Brightnorm


----------



## FNinjaP90 (Apr 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Hey Wilkey, you said you were gonna make 6-8 or so of these? Well I counted, including me, around 14 members definitely wanting a TK. But hey! The more the merrier! Less cost on your machinist's part I guess.

Also, the 4000lm and 3000lm bulbs look ultra white to me. Are they as white as Surefire Xenon bulbs? Thanks.


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

The 4kL bulb is very white. But it's so bright, the "white wall" test is almost impossible to do. The 3kL bulb is slightly yellower but only compared to the HOLA. Judging them against other WA standard bulbs, I'd say they are just about as white as I've seen xenon bulbs get. Only seriously overdriven bulbs get whiter.

Wilkey


----------



## AlexGT (Apr 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Hi Ginseng!, I have been following the thread with great interest, Do you know if the bulb can take the 12+ volts of a GM-SLA? I recall the SLA being 13.XX volts and you state you are overdriving the bulb at 12.xx volts, will it flash?

I am already about to order these bulbs (Osram HOLA) at $2.85 with an online retailer, is this a good price? BTW have you seen this HOLA bulbs with AXIAL filament? 

I want to try it on my Thor, but have to find a way to hold the GY.35 Base to the H3 in good focus. I think a simple dremel can mod the base to fit.

Please let me know your findings.

Thnx!
Alex


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

AlexGT,

The HOLA (Osram 64625HLX) is quite intolerant of overdrive. However, it should handle 13V. Push 13.5 to 14V and it will almost certainly blow. This one is what is known as a "hot" bulb. $2.85 is a great price. Is that www.bulbconnection.com? There is no common axial bulb equivalent. The only one is the High Output bulb for the Blitz 240 at a crushing $18. Your no-load voltage can be as high as 14.5V but it'd better drop fast. If you think there is any doubt, you should consider picking up some of the 64623HLX (LOLA) as a backup. That bulb is pretty robust.

Please let me know how your GY6.35 to H3 conversion goes. Soon I'll be going the other way! H3 bulb into a bipin subsystem. I have simply stripped the bulb from the H3 cage (it's just a wire lead G4) but the wire leads do not provide enough stiffness for bulb support. 

Wilkey


----------



## AlexGT (Apr 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

I am thinking in getting the bulb from replacementlightbulbs.com ($2.90 not $2.85), I have never tried them before,How is bulbconnection?

Would be interesting to find out who makes the Blitz bulb

I'll let you know how the mod of the base went.

Alex


----------



## FNinjaP90 (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Hey does anyone make scope rings the size of a D mag? I would love to use the Aurora as a weaponlight!


----------



## Icebreak (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Wilkey -

May I get in on this TKA?


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Um, Ninja,
Thinking of going elephant hunting? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Icey,
Line up! 

Wilkey


----------



## bryguy42 (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

i'm interested in one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## nikemboka (Apr 12, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Axial Bulb*

Howdy I am interested also.


----------



## Ginseng (Apr 13, 2004)

*Project Aurora Interest List*

Please check out the "Custom and Mod B/S/T" Forum for a signup list. More details will be provided in that specific thread as they become available.

Thanks,
Wilkey


----------



## js (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora Interest List*

Wilkey,

where IS it? It's not there yet! I'm frantic with anticipation! (Depending on price /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )


----------



## Psychomodo (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora Interest List*

Jim - it's here:

Aurora Sign up


----------



## udaman (Apr 15, 2004)

Discussion of the small/thin form factor anyone? "Mini-Aurora Lite"

Now how do we redesign or miniaturize the D-cell diameter WA ballast? And are many of the bicycle HID's using smaller, custom ballasts in their heads? Take a look at this 675lm Light & Motion bicycle HID. It has been reported to use the WA hardware, yet the 13.5w driven capsule is bare, unlike the WA 10w envelope w/glare shield tip in the Mag HID mod seen here on CPF, and on the pdf files for the WA site. Smaller HID capsules like this could easily be put into a Stinger sized body, but you would need to be able to dial in different lower wattage outputs(Lupine's expensive bike light goes from 9w to 16w at 900lm) or the head would get too hot, and make use of Nomex racing gloves mandatory.

Lots of special electrical and heat issues need to be considered in a higher wattage design when using an arc light. The WA 10w HID’s that came out years ago for bicycle uses, were initially plagued with reliability problems, so I guess WA has done a better job with manufacturing the 10w 1.3in diameter unregulated ballast more recently?

I’d rather see a reduced size 10-13w ballast(Lights & Motion bicycle HID claims 675 lumens from their 13w WA based light engine) that could fit into a smaller flashlight than a D-cell, something along the size of a CR123A body. 

http://www.bikelights.com/Products/arc_li_ion.htm#

http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=24180&lsubcat_id=1519&lcat_id=7604&referpage=

L&M uses a proprietary reflector for uniform smooth beam pattern-but the spot is less intense/less throw? than the Nightrider HID---overall brightness is about the same; I know, I compared outputs of these at Supergo Santa Monica, along with my H3 100w Coleman $20 SLA spotlight---none really light up the alley behind the Supergo store, but the Coleman is much more powerful than the 10w HID's. 500+ lumens in a Stinger sized body is what I’d like to see, with longer than 20-minute runtime. D-cell bodies are just too chunky for my liking. supergo


----------



## js (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Fistful of Lightning (many pic*

[ QUOTE ]
*udaman said:*
Discussion of the small/thin form factor anyone? "Mini-Aurora Lite"

[/ QUOTE ]

udaman, Ginseng hasn't even made the first run of production/TK Aurora lights yet. Seems like a bit much to be directing his attention to yet more possibilities. I mean, I understand what you are suggesting, and I also like a smaller diameter light a lot, too. Maybe you could start your own concept/design thread? That might draw a lot more responses and suggestions than something like this burried in the Aurora thread. Don't you think?

[ QUOTE ]
Now how do we redesign or miniaturize the D-cell diameter WA ballast? And are many of the bicycle HID's using smaller, custom ballasts in their heads? Take a look at this 675lm Light & Motion bicycle HID. It has been reported to use the WA hardware, yet the 13.5w driven capsule is bare, unlike the WA 10w envelope w/glare shield tip in the Mag HID mod seen here on CPF, and on the pdf files for the WA site. Smaller HID capsules like this could easily be put into a Stinger sized body, but you would need to be able to dial in different lower wattage outputs(Lupine's expensive bike light goes from 9w to 16w at 900lm) or the head would get too hot, and make use of Nomex racing gloves mandatory.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, this feels like it's way out in left field when posted here in this thread but would be right at home in a thread of your own on thinner C sized form factor light possibilities.

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of special electrical and heat issues need to be considered in a higher wattage design when using an arc light. The WA 10w HID’s that came out years ago for bicycle uses, were initially plagued with reliability problems, so I guess WA has done a better job with manufacturing the 10w 1.3in diameter unregulated ballast more recently?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know absolutely nothing about HID lights, but it seems to me that Aurora is doing pretty good with a 4000 lumen HOLA! That tops the spec I've seen for the X990 HID light! Plus, Wilkey has worked out the heating issues for this 3D mag form factor/OSRAM combo. Why would he switch to something that requires a ballast? Plus, aren't we talking a lot more money, here?

[ QUOTE ]
I’d rather see a reduced size 10-13w ballast(Lights & Motion bicycle HID claims 675 lumens from their 13w WA based light engine) that could fit into a smaller flashlight than a D-cell, something along the size of a CR123A body.

http://www.bikelights.com/Products/arc_li_ion.htm#

http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=24180&lsubcat_id=1519&lcat_id=7604&referpage=

L&M uses a proprietary reflector for uniform smooth beam pattern-but the spot is less intense/less throw? than the Nightrider HID---overall brightness is about the same; I know, I compared outputs of these at Supergo Santa Monica, along with my H3 100w Coleman $20 SLA spotlight---none really light up the alley behind the Supergo store, but the Coleman is much more powerful than the 10w HID's. 500+ lumens in a Stinger sized body is what I’d like to see, with longer than 20-minute runtime. D-cell bodies are just too chunky for my liking. supergo 

[/ QUOTE ]

Ultimately, I'm not sure how this all really relates to this thread, but I can tell you that for $400 I can buy a whole complete deluxe Aurora setup--the works, and man, that is what I would do with that much spare cash at the moment. Not some 550 or 700 lumen HID light. I already am making 700 lumens and more with my TigerLight mods.

Anyway, Ginseng, I wanted to say that I just love the fact that Aurora exists, even if I don't own one. Aurora is a triumph for hot wire guys everywhere. Aurora is a benchmark. Aurora is a milestone. "Are incadescents dead?" people ask. All that is necessary for a reply now is simply "Aurora." I love it. What a triumph! From the incan master himself. Thanks, Wilkey.


----------



## NewBie (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*Ginseng said:*







Wilkey 

[/ QUOTE ]

Your neighbors ever think a UFO has landed?

Reminds me of the various scenarios where someone points there flashlight back at the police....I wonder if one of these would **** 'em off...


----------



## js (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I've been thinking about Aurora class lights lately and all the difficulties inherent in such projects and I wanted to bump this groundbreaking thread to the top, because it deserves this, and more.

What Wilkey did with his Aurora is a milestone and a permanent triumph for hotwire modding. What he did here was nothing less than create *an entire new class of lights.* Some will accuse me of hero worshiping and some such nonsense, but I say that almost all of us are just following Ginseng's lead. He mapped out this territory. Because of Wilkey, we know about Welch Allyn lamps and Osram lamps and RC community batteries and www.rcgroups.com. And think of this, it was late Feb of this year when Wilkey posted this thread detailing his Aurora, and STILL, even now, ten months later, how many people have an "Aurora Class" light? I'll tell you: not many. bwaites, Oto, Ginseng, and maybe one or two of the Phoenix guys.

Wilkey, I salute you, and I thank you for all that you have done for us Hotwire guys. It may be a bit much to say that this thread should be a sticky, but I'll say it anyway: this thread should be required hotwire reading.


----------



## S4MadMan (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

js wrote:
*Some will accuse me of hero worshiping and some such nonsense, but I say that almost all of us are just following Ginseng's lead. He mapped out this territory.* 


Well, Jim, you and Wilkey are my Flashlight HEROS so... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ...to the naysayers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

It *truly* is amazing when you think about it, ~4,000 lumens from a MAG D body?! That's ridiculous considering that's 800 more lumens than the best HIDs in automobiles.

So let the worshipping continue... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/paypal.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bump.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## bwaites (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I agree!

Although Wilkey will laugh at this and be mildly embarrased even, it truly was an achievement beyond any hotwire dreams to that point!

This is an incredibly difficult thing to pull off, as my last 6 months of travails have proven!!

Thanks Wilkey, and thanks js for bringing it back up!

I have often gone back to this thread and reread it to make sure I wasn't missing something. I've even printed most of it out to make sure.

Bill


----------



## litho123 (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

If we had a CPF Person-of-the-Year Award, my vote for 2004 would be for Wilkey. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


----------



## S4MadMan (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*litho123 said:*
If we had a CPF Person-of-the-Year Award, my vote for 2004 would be for Wilkey. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I've voted for Wilkey every year. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## udaman (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
I've been thinking about Aurora class lights lately and all the difficulties inherent in such projects and I wanted to bump this groundbreaking thread to the top, because it deserves this, and more.

What Wilkey did with his Aurora is a milestone and a permanent triumph for hotwire modding. What he did here was nothing less than create *an entire new class of lights.* Some will accuse me of hero worshiping and some such nonsense, but I say that almost all of us are just following Ginseng's lead. He mapped out this territory. Because of Wilkey, we know about Welch Allyn lamps and Osram lamps and RC community batteries and www.rcgroups.com. And think of this, it was late Feb of this year when Wilkey posted this thread detailing his Aurora, and STILL, even now, ten months later, how many people have an "Aurora Class" light? I'll tell you: not many. bwaites, Oto, Ginseng, and maybe one or two of the Phoenix guys.

Wilkey, I salute you, and I thank you for all that you have done for us Hotwire guys. It may be a bit much to say that this thread should be a sticky, but I'll say it anyway: this thread should be required hotwire reading. 

[/ QUOTE ]

You know js, I keep reading your posts lately and so many of them contain little in the way of useful information, add nothing new or helpful to the thread. Please don't take offense...but you are so talented, and now this (hehe, not you js, we know you're a self-admitted hothead, who sometimes posts knee-jerk reactions before thinking things through...and we're fine jabbing in our little tongue and cheeky remarks against each other like your brother can do, who seems to have a likewise sense of humor. My remarks are for others who don't get it). False hero worship? Hmm, my mother's tongue and throat are starting to get swollen and sore from the radiation therapy, she gets a bit depressed but I keep at it, I never let her get too disappointed. At one point she said she felt like getting a ticket to fly up to Oregon where they have assisted suicide, and be done with it, cause she doesn't like everything involved with chemo/radation therapy and all the suffering of getting old. She's my hero, but ever hero's need support sometimes. Ginny was disappointed, to be sure, about the failing of the go ahead with the Aurora. Still he got over it, they are just lights stupid (hehe, referencing another Cafe thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Hmm, long before there was a CPF, back when you, Ginny, and I were just playing around with flashlights and other adult toys; I recall contacting SF via e-mail and over the phone in the late 1990's. I kept asking why they were not using NiMH batteries, instead of the older NiCd tech. in all of their lights. Just spinning my wheels with them. Of course SF and many other things you and others objectify, I merely see as products, quality or not. The product speaks for itself. Like who invented the Sony Walkman, revolutionary, visionary; but the creator is not deified? Product speaks for itself. Aurora is something to be impressed with for sure, but how many people have bought and used such a product. I seem to recall Ginny in an apparent disappointed mood when he announced the TK Aurora project to be DOA. Do we give credit to the makers of the Lithium battery that made SF's success a possibility? Without the Lithium battery, would there even be a SF???

I think giving Ginseng apparent 100% credit for Welch Allyn bulbs, or even more RC batteries usage is a slight on other CPF members. Umm, best to give credit to those nameless RC community members for driving force to achieve more potent batteries, for which Ginseng or anyone else on CPF would be unable to use such WA bulbs or others to full potential. Yeah, I've been following NiMH and RC style batteries since before CPF, as have others; with the eye to using them. Same with newer Lithium rechargeable battery chemistries, once again already in use with the RC community; before being mentioned here on CPF by whomever. I follow those chemistry developments, but have no desire for fame or infamy.

I see what appears to be a community of CPF's that are into one ups manship, glory for being 1st to do this or that, enjoy accolades for the biggest baddest this or that. But I always rather more enjoy reading Mr. Bulk's genuine fascination with tweaking lights for the fun, amusement, joy, in making them perform better for himself. Then sharing that with others, being humble and in no need of validation or self-worth. Mod'ing a $5 plastic incandescent light, or pushing the envelope with his high-end LED's.

By the time you rest on your laurels (something Mr. Bulk does not seem to be comfortable with) and accolades with current projects; I may be bald, before you push the envelope to develop newer technologies, into hereto unavailable before, uses...it is possible, but you need to think out of the box, rack you brains, seek advice from new sources, help drive new technologies or new refinements to established technology. I'm still waiting for that sexy/thin JA Special, the little potent package that has 'legs' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (when js gets it done, I will /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif , but hero worship?- I prefer gawwdess worship myself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

And while we're in the mood for Demi-God worship, maybe Ginseng would like to say a few words about Kenshiro and the Ken4 which- preceded the Aurora. Perhaps some CPF members with lots of posts have not done the same level of reading through the dated history of the CPF forums as I have, so they see things differently than I do. Kenshiro was using those same Osram bulbs before Ginseng was using them in the Aurora js, or have you forgotten to give Kenshiro some credit/hero worshipping too? You have seen Kenshiro's work on beamshots for all those former 'best of the best' superlights on his site, correct? You do know that Kenshiro was considering a 16k lumen 200w HMI HID for the Ken4, correct? (no it was not posted by Kenshiro in any threads I know of, but he mentioned it to me before).

Aurora may have the most 'wow' factor for those who don't follow Ginseng; but I feel it to be false worship (hehe, I'll get Muglited for that comment /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif ) as Ginseng's worth or accomplishment should not be defined by one impressive project. Further more, how is the Aurora an *entirely* new class of light*s*---and what is the definition of such 'class', as though we are talking about the original SureFire 123's or ARC LED's??? Aurora is based on a long existing format, that of the familiar M*glite D-cell, and so this is too much enthusiastic hyperbole for my practical/logical mindset to be persuaded. Is the Maxabeam an entirely new class? Just curious, because it certainly seems to me, to have no peers in what it does best, and that all from a paltry 800lumens total output (MegaRay is a different style/philosophy of lighting from my point of perspective). If what you mean is that in the large D-cell M*glite body style class, the Aurora is the innovative and leading- short-lived, high-wattage lumen 'blaster', I will agree.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif to the experience and wisdom Ginseng brings to the general CPF community, 3,000+ posts and counting, his constant fascination with improving the breed, tweaking, and selflessly sharing that knowledge, while having that wicked sense of humor that extends to self-deprecating bouts of 'mind farts' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif . But behind every great man, is usually a greater woman, ya know? Ginseng had 'some' help with his most impressive project of all, his cute-as-a-button daughter, that we see in ever changing avatar shots /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## S4MadMan (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Udaman, good point about the Aurora's usefulness or therelackof. Now that you bring that up, we are (well, Wilkey and JS=99.99%, Me=0.01% /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) working on a "useable" Micro and Mini Aurora. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Stay tuned. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## flashworm (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I'm waiting too, Dan, keep us posted. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Raybo (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I always study Ginseng and Wilkey's posts and try to learn what I can. I can never get through udaman's manifestos...........I try but /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif


----------



## Ginseng (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Udaman,

Your posts lately have made me quite sad. Not angry. Just sad. I know there is tragedy in your life but who hasn't had some. I am sorry to hear about your mother and I sincerely hope she recovers and goes on to live a long, healthy and happy life. If that helps you be right with the world, or just our little world here on CPF then I will be happy for you.

I have always been honest about stealing only from the best and brightest and I always give credit where credit is due. I have often acknowledged men like Lemlux and Illuminated for their knowledge, their generosity and patience. My work is built upon the work of the intelligent, the ingenious and the courageous who went before me and this is something of which I am proud. If they can look at my work and say "well done" then my satisfaction is assured.

Let me say that the baton has passed from me to bwaites on Aurora-class lights. Making a hard to use, expensive one-off prototype was relatively easy compared to the challenge he has. He's got to adapt the ideas I started and mold it into a robust, cost-effective, polished light with much more mature performance and he's got to make 40 of them. He has learned all he can from me and he's taking it to the next level. Now he has *my* respect and admiration. This is the way of things. 

Again, as to what I choose to do and not do, that is my concern. I do what I choose because I find it fun and because it turns me on. But you are right about the one-upsmanship on CPF. I welcome it because all those that I spar with understand that we all benefit from a friendly atmosphere of play and challenge. These are people whom I respect and expect to surpass my work in some way. If you don't accept this, then this community is not for you. Let me put it another way...we get our creds partially by what we _make_ and it is time for you to step up as you have exhausted the good will you had previously built up. 

When you are ready to engage me as a colleague, then I will welcome you. Until then, for my own peace of mind and because it is no longer fruitful, I will not hear you. I expect that Jim and Bill will deal with you in their own way. I've got their backs, but they're grown up enough to take care of themselves. 

Just one final word: You're an intelligent guy and a good guy. Don't let things get any further out of control. The course you choose is in your own hands. 

Wilkey


----------



## bwaites (Dec 11, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

Hear, Hear!! Thank you Wilkey for saying what I wanted to say in a much more eloquent way than I could have.

So far as I can see, all of us have benefited from those who have gone before. I certainly have drawn from Wilkey, js, and Oto, to name but a few. 

Fivemega is turning into a monster of a designer/modifier/manufacturer in his own right as well. 

MrBulk, McGizmo, and others have carried the Luxeon banner well and I suspect will continue to do so.

Thanks to all of them, we have benefited. 

I applaud all who DO, instead of those who TALK. 

Good luck to all of you.

Bill


----------



## js (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*udaman said:*

You know js, I keep reading your posts lately and so many of them contain little in the way of useful information, add nothing new or helpful to the thread. Please don't take offense...but you are so talented, and now this (hehe, not you js, we know you're a self-admitted hothead, who sometimes posts knee-jerk reactions before thinking things through...and we're fine jabbing in our little tongue and cheeky remarks against each other like your brother can do, who seems to have a likewise sense of humor. My remarks are for others who don't get it).

[/ QUOTE ]

"Please don't take offense"? Are you serious? Try this on for size, u-da-man: *SHOVE THAT COMMENT RIGHT UP YOUR ****

Get this through your obfuscated head: we are not friends anymore--if we ever were: you have been nothing but offensive, slighting, and denigrating towards me since the situation with your mother. In light of that I have cut you some slack, and I have defended you to others and suggested that they cut you some slack. No more. You want me as an enemy? You got it.

How dare you bring up my brother and compare our situation to that? My brother would NEVER be so disrespectful or obstreperous towards me. For weeks now you have been dogging my every thread and shovelling loads of poop. **** off, why don't you?

My posts are unhelpful and add little useful information to the thread? Is that so? Well yours are downright destructive and baiting. I think others will disagree with this assessment of yours. Why don't you ask legtu whether or not I've been helpful to people lately?

[ QUOTE ]
False hero worship? Hmm, my mother's tongue and throat are starting to get swollen and sore from the radiation therapy, she gets a bit depressed but I keep at it, I never let her get too disappointed. At one point she said she felt like getting a ticket to fly up to Oregon where they have assisted suicide, and be done with it, cause she doesn't like everything involved with chemo/radation therapy and all the suffering of getting old. She's my hero, but ever hero's need support sometimes. Ginny was disappointed, to be sure, about the failing of the go ahead with the Aurora. Still he got over it, they are just lights stupid (hehe, referencing another Cafe thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Hmm, long before there was a CPF, back when you, Ginny, and I were just playing around with flashlights and other adult toys; I recall contacting SF via e-mail and over the phone in the late 1990's. I kept asking why they were not using NiMH batteries, instead of the older NiCd tech. in all of their lights. Just spinning my wheels with them. Of course SF and many other things you and others objectify, I merely see as products, quality or not. The product speaks for itself. Like who invented the Sony Walkman, revolutionary, visionary; but the creator is not deified? Product speaks for itself. Aurora is something to be impressed with for sure, but how many people have bought and used such a product. I seem to recall Ginny in an apparent disappointed mood when he announced the TK Aurora project to be DOA. Do we give credit to the makers of the Lithium battery that made SF's success a possibility? Without the Lithium battery, would there even be a SF???

I think giving Ginseng apparent 100% credit for Welch Allyn bulbs, or even more RC batteries usage is a slight on other CPF members.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said I hero worshipped Ginseng. He is my friend and I respect him a great deal, both professionally and personally. I wanted to give him another thumbs up for the Aurora project and bump the thread to the top for those who had never seen it before. Right in the very first post is a recognition of those who have gone before. Giving credit for Ginseng's work *in the hotwire CPF community* in no way slights others. And besides, since when have you been worried about slighting people? You seem to be an expert at it. Or am I just your favorite mark?

[ QUOTE ]
Umm, best to give credit to those nameless RC community members for driving force to achieve more potent batteries, for which Ginseng or anyone else on CPF would be unable to use such WA bulbs or others to full potential. Yeah, I've been following NiMH and RC style batteries since before CPF, as have others; with the eye to using them. Same with newer Lithium rechargeable battery chemistries, once again already in use with the RC community; before being mentioned here on CPF by whomever. I follow those chemistry developments, but have no desire for fame or infamy.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the benefit of those who might think you know what you're talking about and get confused or sidetracked, let me just say that it is my considered opinion that you have very little solid knowledge about batteries or incandescent technology or PWM regulators. I am not cowed by your alleged background and understanding; I'm not even impressed. And here again, it is possible to give credit without insulting others or tearing them down.

[ QUOTE ]
I see what appears to be a community of CPF's that are into one ups manship, glory for being 1st to do this or that, enjoy accolades for the biggest baddest this or that.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's nothing wrong with a little friendly competition, and if I want to give Ginseng a little glory for his work, why does that bend you so much out of shape? Envy?

[ QUOTE ]
But I always rather more enjoy reading Mr. Bulk's genuine fascination with tweaking lights for the fun, amusement, joy, in making them perform better for himself. Then sharing that with others, being humble and in no need of validation or self-worth. Mod'ing a $5 plastic incandescent light, or pushing the envelope with his high-end LED's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good. Glad to hear you are not totally incapable of admiration. Go read MR Bulk posts, then, and stop pestering hotwire guys.

[ QUOTE ]
By the time you rest on your laurels (something Mr. Bulk does not seem to be comfortable with) and accolades with current projects; I may be bald, before you push the envelope to develop newer technologies, into hereto unavailable before, uses...it is possible, but you need to think out of the box, rack you brains, seek advice from new sources, help drive new technologies or new refinements to established technology. I'm still waiting for that sexy/thin JA Special, the little potent package that has 'legs' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (when js gets it done, I will /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif , but hero worship?- I prefer gawwdess worship myself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you trying to say? That I am resting on my laurels? Are you entirely right in the head? Scratch that question. I don't want to know. I'm sick of your pathetic, useless and impotent advice. Go think outside the box somehere else and leave me alone.

[ QUOTE ]
And while we're in the mood for Demi-God worship, maybe Ginseng would like to say a few words about Kenshiro and the Ken4 which- preceded the Aurora. Perhaps some CPF members with lots of posts have not done the same level of reading through the dated history of the CPF forums as I have, so they see things differently than I do. Kenshiro was using those same Osram bulbs before Ginseng was using them in the Aurora js, or have you forgotten to give Kenshiro some credit/hero worshipping too? You have seen Kenshiro's work on beamshots for all those former 'best of the best' superlights on his site, correct? You do know that Kenshiro was considering a 16k lumen 200w HMI HID for the Ken4, correct? (no it was not posted by Kenshiro in any threads I know of, but he mentioned it to me before).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I read this thread when it was first posted; I am aware of it, thank you very much. And it is fine to mention Kenshiro and give credit, but you could have done this without insulting the hell out of me and my work and the work of other hotwire guys.

[ QUOTE ]
Aurora may have the most 'wow' factor for those who don't follow Ginseng; but I feel it to be false worship (hehe, I'll get Muglited for that comment /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif ) as Ginseng's worth or accomplishment should not be defined by one impressive project. Further more, how is the Aurora an *entirely* new class of light*s*---and what is the definition of such 'class', as though we are talking about the original SureFire 123's or ARC LED's??? Aurora is based on a long existing format, that of the familiar M*glite D-cell, and so this is too much enthusiastic hyperbole for my practical/logical mindset to be persuaded. Is the Maxabeam an entirely new class? Just curious, because it certainly seems to me, to have no peers in what it does best, and that all from a paltry 800lumens total output (MegaRay is a different style/philosophy of lighting from my point of perspective). If what you mean is that in the large D-cell M*glite body style class, the Aurora is the innovative and leading- short-lived, high-wattage lumen 'blaster', I will agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

What else would I have meant? And I didn't coin the term "Aurora Class Light". It just sprung up because it is real and because people needed a way to identify this new class of lights.

[ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif to the experience and wisdom Ginseng brings to the general CPF community, 3,000+ posts and counting, his constant fascination with improving the breed, tweaking, and selflessly sharing that knowledge, while having that wicked sense of humor that extends to self-deprecating bouts of 'mind farts' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif . But behind every great man, is usually a greater woman, ya know? Ginseng had 'some' help with his most impressive project of all, his cute-as-a-button daughter, that we see in ever changing avatar shots /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

You have never shown any significant amount of respect to Ginseng, or to me, or any of the other hotwire guys.

I believe that God wants us to love everyone, including our enemies; to be charitable even to those who offend us. Yes. But this does not mean rewarding mean-spiritedness and ill-will, and it surely does NOT mean to sit passively by and let someone tarnish your reputation or abuse you.

You know, some months ago I was planning on making you a Mag C sized incan mag mod running the 1160 with five SC or 4/5 SC. I thought you'd appreciate it because you complain about the size of the D lights. I thought it would cheer you up a bit--the thought at least--in the midst of the stuff you are going through.

Now I'm glad I didn't. I asked you at least three times to be more civil and respectful towards me. Instead, you chose to become even more insulting and offensive. That's your choice, of course, but I have a choice too. I don't have to take this crap. I don't even have to read it. From now on you will be invisible to me. I am done with you.

I used to be a little disappointed that I didn't know you're real name, but now I'm actually glad of it.

Good bye, udaman. Please don't try to contact me or pester me anymore in any way. I will not sell you anything and I will not help you with anything.

Good luck. I hope there are at least a few people left on CPF whom you have not alienated and insulted, because I'm gone.

Bye now.


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## S4MadMan (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

[ QUOTE ]
*js said:*
I believe that God wants us to love everyone, including our enemies; to be charitable even to those who offend us. Yes. But this does not mean rewarding mean-spiritedness and ill-will, and it surely does NOT mean to sit passively by and let someone tarnish your reputation or abuse you.

I used to be a little disappointed that I didn't know you're real name, but now I'm actually glad of it.

Good bye, udaman. Please don't try to contact me or pester me anymore in any way. I will not sell you anything and I will not help you with anything.


[/ QUOTE ]


Jim, don't even take it to heart. UDAMAN is not in the spirit right now, he's having family problems.

Just forgive and forget and move on. Everyone else knows your contributions. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## BVH (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I'm somewhat of a newbie and just read this thread. What happened to the project? Were any lights built and sold? What a light!! Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!!!


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## bwaites (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

BVH,

The Aurora as a turnkey light died an untimely and undeserved death due to manufacturing difficulties. 

Several others have begun the process of developing a similar light, search for my "Mule' threads and the threads by FPNinja about his attempts.

The light will eventually manufactured as a turnkey, it is just that it will require more time and effort before it is.

Bill


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## Greta (Dec 14, 2004)

*Re: Project Aurora: Version 4K*

I'm going to let this thread stand as it is... without any edits from me or any other mod or admin. But I am closing the thread now. Any futher... _*ahem*_... "discussions"... of a personal nature can take place off of CPF. Any further discussions regarding the original topic of this thread... Project Aurora: Version 4K... can be continued in a new thread. Thank you all for your cooperation... and just for the record... chill out guys. This is your only warning.


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