# Sunwayman V25C Variable Ring (XM-L2 - 1x18650, 2xCR123A/RCR) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAM+



## selfbuilt (Feb 6, 2014)

*Warning: pic heavy, as usual. *











Sunwayman has recently updated their old XM-L continuously variable 1x18650/2xCR123A model – the V20C – with the V25C, a new XM-L2 model with higher output and revised control ring. In this review, I will put the V25C, through its paces … 

*Manufacturer Reported Specifications:* 
(note: as always, these are simply what the manufacturer provides – scroll down to see my actual testing results).


LED: CREE XM-L2
LED: Runs on: 2x CR123A or 1x 18650 (Batteries NOT included)
 Output mode/Runtime: High: 780 lumens / 1hr, Low: 0.1 lumens / 200hrs
Peak Beam Intensity: 3140cd
360° fully-variable output control system
High quality reflector maintains great throw distance and spread with an ideal beam pattern
Constant current circuit, constant output
Effective range of 112 meters
Ultra-clear tempered glass lens resists scratches and impacts
Aerospace-grade aluminum alloy body
Military Specification Type III- hard anodized body
Waterproof, in accordance with IPX-8 standard
Included Accessories: Lanyard, O-ring, Rubber cap
Dimensions: Length: 5.3" (134.5mm), Body Diameter: 1" (25.4mm),
Bezel Diameter: 1.26" (32mm)
Weight: 4.1 .oz (116g) (excluding batteries)
MSRP: ~$66






Packaging is standard Sunwayman, and nothing fancy. Inside, included with the light are spare O-rings, a basic lanyard, spare boot cover, product insert and manual. I must say, I am a little disappointed to not see a holster, pocket clip, or grip ring – this seems to be quite basic packaging.













From left to right: AW Protected 18650 2200mAh; Sunwayman V25C, V20C; Olight M20S-X; Foursevens MMR-X; Fenix TK15; Klarus XT11; Eagletac G25C2-II.

All dimensions directly measured, and given with no batteries installed:

*Sunwayman V25C*: Weight: 117.3g, Length: 134.9mm, Width (bezel): 32.1mm
*Sunwayman V20C:* Weight: 117.4g, Length 133.0mm, Width (bezel) 32.2mm
*Foursevens MMX*: Weight 145.8g, Length: 153.3mm, Width (bezel): 38.7mm
*Skilhunt S2*: Weight: 133.0g, Length 153.0mm, Width: 36.0mm
*Olight M22*: Weight: 148.4g, Length: 144.8mm, Width: 41.2mm (bezel)
*Olight M21*: Weight 119.5g, Length 145.2mm, Width 38.5mm (bezel)
*Eagletac G25C2-II* (stock): Weight 141.0g, Length: 150.6mm, Width: 39.6mm
*Eagletac TX25C2*: Weight 93.6g, Length: 120.4mm, Width (bezel): 31.6mm
*Klarus XT11*: Weight 133.0g, Length: 148.8, Width (bezel) 35.0mm
*Nitecore MH25*: Weight: 145.4g, Length: 160mm, Width (bezel): 40.0m






















As always, anodizing is excellent on Sunwayman – in a matte finish black on my V25C sample. Personally, I miss the older natural finish anodizing (which was a rich dark gray). In any case, there were no blemishes or damage on my V25C black sample. As usual, labels are bright white and exceptionally clear, despite the small font in places.

Overall build is similar to a number of earlier V20C, except for the reduced labels around the control ring, and the lack of a removable grip ring. As before, there is knurling on the tailcap and control ring, of reasonable aggressiveness. Overall grip is certainly ok, but a grip ring or pocket clip would help. 

Screw threads are square-cut, but unfortunately no longer anodized (i.e., lock-out is no longer possible). There is some sort of darker coating on the threads of the body portion of the light, but these do not allow for lock-out. This is disappointing, but likely reflects patent/litigation issues with another maker. 

There is a spring on the positive contact plate in the head of the V25C, as before. Higher capacity flat-top cells can be used.

The V25C can tailstand, but is wobbly on my sample (loosening the tailcap assembly may help).

There are no longer any detents (or labels) on the magnetic control ring – the ring can freely turn the full circumference of the light. Scroll down to my User Interface section for more info. 









Reflector is textured to at least a medium orange peel, and fairly deep. Coupled with the XM-L2 cool white emitter (which was well centered on my sample), I would expect a fairly typical beam for this class. Scroll down for beamshots.

*User Interface*

As before, the V25C has a forward tailcap clicky - press and release for momentary on, click for locked on. 

Mode switching is controlled by the magnetic control ring in the head. The V25C features a continuously-variable interface with full 360 degree rotation. There is no detent or mark to indicate the start or end of the output ramp. Holding the light in front of you, simply turn to the ring to right (i.e. clockwise) to increase output, and turn to the left (counterclockwise) to decrease output). See my ramping analysis below.

There is no strobe mode on the V25C.

*Ramping Pattern*






The original V20C used what was considered "visually-linear" ramp at that time. As I explained in V20C review, this wasn't a true visually-linear ramp, but rather a variation on the logarithmically-adjusted output ramp. In practice, this meant that the V20C spent a lot of the ring dynamic range at ultralow outputs.

The new V25C features a more consistent "visually-linear" ramp, organized around the well-established Stevens' power relationship for human perception of output (i.e., a cube-root relationship for non-point sources of light). Please see this post in my Sunwayman V10A review a detailed discussion of this power relationship.

To help you visualize this better, below is the ramping pattern plotted on a cube-root scale:






This is roughly how the light will _appear_ to you as you turn the dial.

As you can see, the V25C is more consistently "visually-linear", and doesn't spend as long at the ultra-low levels as the V20C. But it does reach the max output earlier than you might expect for a fully-continuous ring (i.e., less than half the turning range). There is also a small stretch of the ring when no output is presented. If you keep turning pass this point, the ramp will commence again.

In practice, this is reasonable – but I would have preferred a clear detent, as least for Max or the full off position. As it stands now, you have no way to predict where you are in the ramp before turning on the light. And if you turn too far to the right when in Max, the light eventually shuts off without warning.

*Video*: 

For information on the light, including the build and user interface, please see my video overview:



Video was recorded in 720p, but YouTube typically defaults to 360p. Once the video is running, you can click on the configuration settings icon and select the higher 480p to 720p options. You can also run full-screen. 

As with all my videos, I recommend you have annotations turned on. I commonly update the commentary with additional information or clarifications before publicly releasing the video.

*PWM/Strobe*

As before, the V25C appears to be current-controlled. There is no PWM that I can detect, on any level of the ramp.

There is no longer a strobe mode on the V25C either.

*Standby Drain:*

There is no standby drain when the light is clicked Off at the tailcap. 

However, there is a standby drain if the light is clicked On but the dial is adjusted to the portion of the ring where no light is produced. I have measured this current as 13mA on an 18650 cell. That would translate into ~10 days before a 3100mAh cell would be fully drained. I note that this is much higher than the "off" standby detent of the original V20C, which was only 70uA.

As an aside, this standby current defines the maximum runtime of the light - it's not possible any of the lowest modes to exceed 10 days runtime, given this limiting circuit overhead.

In any case, I recommend you always leave the light clicked off at the tailcap when not in use.

*Beamshots:*

For white-wall beamshots below, all lights are on Max output on an AW protected 18650 battery. Lights are about ~0.75 meter from a white wall (with the camera ~1.25 meters back from the wall). Automatic white balance on the camera, to minimize tint differences.





























































As you can see, overall output has increased over the original V20C. Overall throw and output are reasonable for a general purpose light of this size.

*Testing Method:* 

All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, as described on my flashlightreviews.ca website. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for any extended run Lo/Min modes (i.e. >12 hours) which are done without cooling.

I have devised a method for converting my lightbox relative output values (ROV) to estimated Lumens. See my How to convert Selfbuilt's Lightbox values to Lumens thread for more info. 

*Throw/Output Summary Chart:*

My summary tables are reported in a manner consistent with the ANSI FL-1 standard for flashlight testing. Please see http://www.flashlightreviews.ca/FL1.htm for a discussion, and a description of all the terms used in these tables. Effective July 2012, I have updated all my Peak Intensity/Beam Distance measures with a NIST-certified Extech EA31 lightmeter (orange highlights).
















Overall output for the V25C is very much in keeping with other recent 1x18650, 2xCR123A/RCR lights. Considering the overall smallish size of the V25C, this is a fairly aggressive drive level. The V25C is also capable of extremely low output (i.e., can set the ring so that the emitter barely glows).

Note that while the Sunwayman's ANSI FL-1 max output spec seems very believable to me, their beam distance spec seems very low. :thinking: My measurements are consistent with what you would expect for a light of this size and drive level.

*Output/Runtime Graphs:*










It is not uncommon for continuously-variable lights controlled by a magnetic ring to show some change in output over time. This is typically gradual enough for you not to notice, and you can always adjust the ring to fine tune your output over time.

But in the case of the V25C, it seems like any medium-to-high level setting (i.e., anything >50% max output) gradually increases in output over a few minutes to max output. :thinking: I don't quite know what to make of that … although I would note that all my runtimes are done on fully charged 18650 (in case that makes any difference)

In any case, overall output/runtime efficiency seems excellent for the V25C (when taking into account the actual light level produced). And as you can see at the lower level, the V25C manages to keep a fairly constant output (with a slight output oscillation that is not visible to the eye).











There is no step-down on Max on 2xCR123A/RCR – the V25C maintains a very high output level from the start. However, I did observe an instance of PTC engagement on my made-in-the-USA CR123A cells (i.e., that unusual looking trace above). I discuss the origin of this behavior in more detail in this thread, as well in my 2013 CR123A round-up review. It simply reflects what happens when you drive CR123A at a high level for too long (in multi-cell setups).

*Potential Issues*

Range of the magnetic control ring is the full 360 degrees, but less than half of that produces variable light. The rest of the time, the light is either in full Max output, or Off.

You can no longer select your desired output from Off (i.e., if you turn the ring when off you have no idea where you are until after your turn on again).

Similarly, since there is no detent/stop at Max. If you keep turning past the point of Max output, the light eventually shuts off (without warning). Simply turn back the dial slightly to re-engage at Max.

The V25C is heavily-driven on its Max level, without automatic step-down. I therefore suggest you limit runtime when on Max, and don't leave the light unattended.

My sample wouldn't maintain flat regulation at Med-Hi levels, and would instead slowly increase in output back up to Max (and then decrease in a largelly direct-drive-like manner). You would therefore have to continue to adjust the ring to keep a sustained Med-Hi level. At the lower levels, the light maintained consistent regulation.

Light lacks a pocket clip, as before, but also lacks a grip ring or holster now.

*Preliminary Observations*

The V25C is mainly a refresh of the V20C – but one giving you almost twice the max output. oo: The control ring has also been revised, to feature a previously-unseen full 360 degree rotation.

Of course, there may be a reason why we haven't seen that before – it's hard to know where your output will be before your turn on, and at some point along the dial, the light has to go from Max to Off. :shrug: Personally, I would have preferred detents (defined stops) for Max and/or Off. Alternatively, I suppose they could have had the light ramp both up and down from Max along the ring - but then it wouldn't have been clear which way to turn (i.e., at least now, you know clockwise will always increase output from off or low). Again, there is no perfect solution to this issue - and your preferences may vary from mine.

Note also that the ramp has been updated for a true "visually-linear" ramp (based on modern perceptual research), which I consider to be a plus. The ultra-low levels are all still there, albeit over a shorter portion of the ring turn. However, the ring spends almost half of its turn in Max output, which was unexpected. Personally, I'm fine with the dynamic control over less than half the turning range – it makes it convenient for one-handed use (although I still miss the detents). In any case, I suggest you pay close attention to the ramp testing results earlier in the review, to see if this suits your needs. 

A few other changes that are not so welcome are the increased standby drain in the Off region of the ring (although this may not matter if you are sure to always leave the light clicked off at the tailcap). Screw threads remain square-cut, but are no longer anodized for lockout (likely due to litigation issues). And some of the previous extras like the grip ring and holster are gone now. :shrug:

That said, the overall build remains one of high quality. Annodizing is excellent (black now instead of natural finish), and the light has good hand feel with decent knurling and an overall compact shape. The light remains very comfortable to hold and use. 

Output/runtime performance is also excellent, consistent with other good current-controlled lights. This is particularly impressive, given the continuously-variable nature of this light. Regulation was a little peculiar on my sample though - the Med-Hi levels tended to turn back up toward Max over time. :thinking: Something to keep in mind, since there is no automatic step-down feature on Max (i.e., you would need to adjust output yourself).

Overall, the V25C remains a solid light, with a robust implementation of a true "visually-linear" continuously-variable control ring. It addresses the main perceived limitation of the V20C, which was its out-of-date max output level. The new V25C certainly produces a lot of light, although I personally prefer the detents on the original control ring. I hope you found the comparison overview helpful in making your own choice! :wave:

----

V25C provided by Sunwayman and Battery Junction for review.


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## Overclocker (Feb 6, 2014)

thanks again for the great review!

i'm still puzzled why they did this 360 thing without detents. it just doesn't make any sense


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## Ryp (Feb 6, 2014)

Thanks for the review!


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## Swede74 (Feb 6, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> i'm still puzzled why they did this 360 thing without detents. it just doesn't make any sense



It has great "D'oh/Woo-hoo"-potential, should Sunwayman ever appear on The Simpsons :laughing:

About the holster, I think there is hope for those who want one. I noticed that on Sunwayman's official site, there is an item called "All Series of SUNWAYMAN holsters" listed under "Accessories" at the bottom of the page.


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## bgm307 (Feb 6, 2014)

Nice review. I like this light a lot. There is a holster that fits it available here in the US. Just google "V20C holster".


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## selfbuilt (Feb 6, 2014)

Swede74 said:


> About the holster, I think there is hope for those who want one. I noticed that on Sunwayman's official site, there is an item called "All Series of SUNWAYMAN holsters" listed under "Accessories" at the bottom of the page.





bgm307 said:


> Nice review. I like this light a lot. There is a holster that fits it available here in the US. Just google "V20C holster".


I've previously noticed different size Sunwayman holsters for sale on some of the deal/discount websites. People should be able to find something suitable with a little digging.


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## tubed (Feb 6, 2014)

I don't know.
No holster and no clip seems pretty weird for light that is made to be carried around.


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## gkbain (Feb 7, 2014)

Another comprehensive review, thanks. The 360 deg. control ring is a little odd. Also all of my lights this general size came with holsters.


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## hiuintahs (Feb 9, 2014)

selfbuilt said:


> This is roughly how the light will _appear_ to you as you turn the dial.
> 
> As you can see, the V25C is more consistently "visually-linear", and doesn't spend as long at the ultra-low levels as the V20C. But it does reach the max output earlier than you might expect for a fully-continuous ring (i.e., less than half the turning range)...........



Thanks for the review and thanks to you I was motivated to get my own lightbox setup with data logging light meter .


I wonder how many of these V25C lights vary from one another. The reason I say that is my V25C jumps from off to around 700 lux (about 12 lumens in my light box setup) fairly rapidly with very little ring movement and so it's hard to get a variable output that is low as the dial is very sensitive in this area. Then I have a gradual increase all the way to full brightness at around 39,000 lux when the ring has gone about 300 degrees (estimating by the tape I put on there).

If I set it to 20,000 lux (mid brightness) and leave it, it also climbs until it hits full brightness.

I like how the V11R can adjust very low levels of light. The resolution isn't tight as it is on this V25C. I wish SWM had spent more of the rotational angle at an area under 10 lumens and less of it at the top end stuck on maximum brightness.........sort of defeats having a 360 degree ring. So I think that is better than yours which is around 135 degrees.

I really like the beam pattern and the concept of ring controlled light but I don't think this one has been perfected yet to make it a keeper for me. 2 areas that I wish was different on mine is the lack of detent or markings and too much sensitivity with ring movement down in the low lumen area.


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## selfbuilt (Feb 10, 2014)

Interesting to hear your sample is so different from mine. That does not bode well ... curious to hear what others have found.

As for the lowest modes, I agree there is not much of a turning distance now. But I still find found it reasonably easy to pick an ultra low level on my sample (I.e., enough of one to do reliably on mine).


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## Tapis (Oct 8, 2014)

Thanks for the review. I'm really not fond of this full circle, markless ring. I wish Sunwayman had copied and improved the ring from the V11R in a 1 x 18650 flashlight.


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## InfinitusEquitas (Oct 8, 2014)

No question it does take some getting use to, and if you forget that you left it on max, you're gonna blind yourself the next time you turn it on.

Personally, despite the extra modes, and lights that don't get much use, I prefer the SRT5.


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## Mmassey338 (Oct 15, 2014)

I bought one two weeks ago, and liked it right up to when it died. I do agree with others about the 360 degree ring being a mistake. Seller on Amazon seems to have gone belly up in the meantime, so will see how Sunwayman handles this.

ETA: Seller is still in business, and has offered to refund or exchange.

ETA: Seller sent a new one, and after about a month, new one has failed.


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## hiuintahs (Nov 17, 2014)

InfinitusEquitas said:


> No question it does take some getting use to, and if you forget that you left it on max, you're gonna blind yourself the next time you turn it on.
> Personally, despite the extra modes, and lights that don't get much use, I prefer the SRT5.


Ya, my favorite continuous variable light is the Nitecore SRT6. I really tried to like the V25C but as I noted in an above post, it just didn't work out for me.


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## Noctiluco (Dec 21, 2014)

I want to install a warm led in my V25C, but I wonder to know what percentage of light output it will lost with the change. Does anyone know what is the bin of the standard V25C led ? perhaps U2?


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## Tapis (Dec 21, 2014)

hiuintahs said:


> Ya, my favorite continuous variable light is the Nitecore SRT6. I really tried to like the V25C but as I noted in an above post, it just didn't work out for me.


I think the SRT6 is king outside, but way too heavy and cumbersome for daily use inside the house. Inside, I use the wonderful V11R which is perfect for me but lack some punch for outside work.


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## rickypanecatyl (Feb 15, 2015)

I just got a modified version of this light from Vinh (current boost/dedomed) and have a love/hate relationship with!

I personally find it so close to being an amazing light, but bottom line it's ridiculous.

*Pros:*
- Ring rotation feels great and easily controllable. 
- Excellent control in the the ultra low levels
- The boosted, dedomed version has a beautiful beam. Throws as far as my Armytech predator2 (3x,000 cd) with about twice the lumens in a smaller package and nicer color beam.

*Cons:*
- No pocket clip which I need for my preferred carry method and to not roll. I'm thinking problem is solved here: http://www.solarforceflashlight-sale...p&xpage=3&sh=1
- The ludicrous combination of a.) 360 deg rotating ring b.) large portions of ring travel in the "off" position c.) tail clicky.

The bottom line is unless you really know your flashlight's control ring travel extremely well and have a memory that knows exactly how you left it you have no hope of having it come on in your desired mode before turning it on.

*For example:*
- It's so easy to _*want *_to use the excellent moonlight mode and preserve night vision but have it come on at full power blasting you instead.
- You want/need immediate access to full power - perhaps to access a threat, check out a noise, blind an attacker, impress your friends... whatever. You grab the light, click it on and NOTHING! You rotate the ring and... NOTHING!! What could have happened?
1. Perhaps the tail clicky was already on but the ring was in the off position so all you did was "doubly" turn it off.
2. When you rotated the ring, you accomplished nothing and there's a good chance you left it back in one of the large "off" rotations.
3. So you click it again and it is still off. 
4. Of course perhaps it really doesn't work because the batteries are dead because you though you turned it off when you put it away but you really turned it on.
If you are under duress, there's a good chance you'll also be thinking about other things and will have a hard time focussing on all the possible combinations as to why your light is not coming on quickly when you want/need it!

So bottom line, much like the Thrunite Lynx/Scorpion I say it is very close to being an amazing light BUT is very lame as is. 
Personally I do like the on/off clicky switch BUT I don't like BOTH the ability to turn it 100% off with the ring and then "doubly" off with the clickie as that gives me more confusing option magnified by no stops/detents.

I'm curious if any of the flashlight modders think it would be possible to put "stops" on the ring so that it went from say .02 lumens to Max? (To me .02 lumens is enough in the dark to look at it and know the clickie is in the "on" position.

If that's not possible I'm curious as a semi fix if 
1.) The ring position is always in a consistent position with the body for low-hi & off even after disassembling/assembling and if so
2.) How feasible would it be to paint glow in the dark markings on the ring and body to show where you were at? You'd still of course have to look at/focus on the ring/markings for a moment before turning it on if you wanted to know what level it was coming on in as opposed to doing it by feel but it would be better than it is.


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## selfbuilt (Feb 16, 2015)

rickypanecatyl said:


> I The ludicrous combination of a.) 360 deg rotating ring b.) large portions of ring travel in the "off" position


Yes, I tend to agree with you there. It is very hard to get used to this 360 degree rotation - I find myself preferring the earlier V20C for its more traditional (but excellent) ring implementation.


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