# help me to find a headlamp for night running...



## framboisier (Nov 2, 2007)

hi I'm a french member of light's forum 

i'm looking for a headlamp for night running and trail/raid in forest.

i've find 3-4 models, i would like to know what you think about them 

- black diamond ICON
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/black-diamond/icon/
- black diamond ZENIX IQ
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/black-diamond/zenix-iq/
- PETZL MYO XP (not belt model)
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/petzl/myo-xp/
- PETZL MYOLITE 3
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/petzl/myolite-3/

what i want : light weight / bright /waterproof 

i find posts about ICON but i didn't understand review made by beautiffuly-stupid... 

thanks to help me


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## GaryF (Nov 2, 2007)

I have the Zenix-IQ. I found the beam to be too narrow, but that was "fixed" when I upgraded the LED to a Seoul, which was a simple matter of soldering in a new star. This upgrade made it MUCH brighter, and also widened the beam nicely. 

It has 3 brightness levels on the main led and also 3 brightness levels for the 2 5mm leds. Runtime on the brightest setting is about 3 hours, and higher on the dimmer settings. With the Seoul LED, it's the brightest headlamp I have seen. 

Weight is 3.8oz, or 108 grams, without batteries. As it uses just 2 aa batteries, it probably has the lightest "with battery" weight of the 4 lights you mention.

This light sheds water well, but it does not have seals on the head unit, so it is not truly "waterproof".


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## framboisier (Nov 2, 2007)

thanks for your answer 

is it easy to change the LED for A SEOUL ??

i moded a mag 2 D with 18650 battery + 3W Diamond LED but it was easy to change, for the SEOUL you need to weld (souder in french) or just clip it ??

what about runtime with the SEOUL ?

thanks :thumbsup:

PS : you're so lucky in USA : headlamp black diamond ICON is 20-30€ (+/-40$) less expensive on US ebay compare to french ebay


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## GaryF (Nov 2, 2007)

framboisier said:


> is it easy to change the LED for A SEOUL ??



I'm not very good at soldering (welding), but even for me this was easy. The key was that the led is mounted on a star (circuit board), which gives bigger solder contacts and separates the LED from the heat of the soldering operation.



framboisier said:


> what about runtime with the SEOUL ?



It's about the same as the luxeon, but much brighter. Around 3 hours on high, longer on the low levels.



framboisier said:


> you're so lucky in USA : headlamp black diamond ICON is 20-30€ (+/-40$) less expensive on US ebay compare to french ebay



Yes, I just purchased an extra Black Diamond Zenix-IQ for $32.75 US, shipping included. The USA is a very good place to be a "flashaholic" .


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## redglare (Nov 2, 2007)

I think if I were running at night on the road I would take my Zebralight H50. I haven't run with mine yet, but I think it's great for walking at night.

2 hours + on high from a single AA. 

The broad flood beam pattern would be a lot less disorienting for me than any flashlight or headlamp with a narrow spot beam. I will say that I was a distance runner for a number of years and my stride was never very smooth. A flood beam like with the Zebralight would not appear to bounce around wildly like a that of a flashlight with a bright spot because so much of the edge of the Zebralight's beam is spread out so widely. It wouldn't be like you were looking down a narrow, bouncing tunnel of bright light. It is more like having a tiny lantern to light the way.


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## framboisier (Nov 2, 2007)

thanks Gary for answer : i think i won't take risk to burn th lamp by soldering...

@reglare

i dont want just a lamp for running, i practice also "course d'orientation" (don't know the english for this sport...) you runn in forest/country in order to find "tags" (balises).

so i look for a just middle with lightweigt and bright... i think i will get a ICON not expensive on US ebay and i'll maybe mod it later


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## mike2g (Nov 2, 2007)

"course d'orientation" = Orienteering



framboisier said:


> thanks Gary for answer : i think i won't take risk to burn th lamp by soldering...
> 
> @reglare
> 
> ...


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## framboisier (Nov 2, 2007)

what about the princeton TEC EOS ???

5 stars on flashlight reviews, light weight, similar to a petzl myoXP or tikka XP but probably brighter... ?


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## Magichunter (Nov 2, 2007)

I vote for the Rayovac 1 watt sportsmans extreme sold for $19 at Walmart. 

Floody with diffuser or spot as you choose, 2 hours run time, reasonably bright and easily available. What could be simpler???


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## GaryF (Nov 2, 2007)

Magichunter said:


> I vote for the Rayovac 1 watt sportsmans extreme sold for $19 at Walmart.
> 
> Floody with diffuser or spot as you choose, 2 hours run time, reasonably bright and easily available. What could be simpler???



I would readily second that suggestion, but I fear it may be difficult to find in France.


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## acourvil (Nov 2, 2007)

I run trails in the dark a couple times a week in the winter. I have a Black Diamond [Xenix IQ] modded with a recent Seoul emitter, and it works great. On regular duracell alkalines, I get 2-3 hours before it drops out of regulation, and it's still bright enough to run for at least another hours. Lately, i have been using a single protected rechargeable Li ion battery and a dummy. That gives me maybe 90 minutes of run time between charges. The downside is that it never drops out of regulation before the protection kicks in becasue the voltage is still above the cut-off.

I run in all weather with it; I can't say it is absolutely waterproof, but I've never had a problem.

I prefer to have the battery pack in the back for running, because it is more balanced and more comfortable than a light with all the weight in the front.

It's also good to have something like an LOD CE or and Arc AAA as a backup. Of course, running with friends is also a good back-up.

I think it would also be good for adventure races or orienteering.


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## framboisier (Nov 3, 2007)

about Rayovac 1watt : 2hrs of runtime is not enough

what about this one
www.rayovac.com/flashlight/lux3aahdlt-b.shtml
http://cgi.ebay.com/RAYOVAC-Headlamp-FlashLight-Torch-Light-K2-LUXEON-LED_W0QQitemZ160176067534QQihZ006QQcategoryZ106984QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

working with K2 , 20hrs of runtime, 6 modes, water resistant (waterproof or just splashable ??)

weight ?????

Rayovac is a good brand ? better than black diamond ? 

i don't know which i could take ICON from black diamond or RAYOVAC k2...


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## yellow (Nov 3, 2007)

I ll give You another one to choose from 

a Streamlight Argo HP
just two levels, small and light and, primary point, *can be run with a single 17650 Li-Ion cell*.

I ve modded it with a Seoul (look for "emitter wap", ist a joke, nothing difficult at all), and use it as headlamp together with a single cree on the bars for night mountainbiking.

(There are a few treads on the SL Argo HP modding topic in here, in fact mine runs on an 18650 now)


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## framboisier (Nov 3, 2007)

yellow said:


> I ll give You another one to choose from
> 
> a Streamlight Argo HP
> just two levels, small and light and, primary point, *can be run with a single 17650 Li-Ion cell*.
> ...


could be a great thing if it run with a 18650 :twothumbs i have allready charger + 2*18650 from my mag 2D mod...

i going to watch their web site....>

PS: thanks to give me an other choice it was not enought difficult to choose :thinking:


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## yellow (Nov 4, 2007)

Sorry, seems I was not specific enough:

I dont think such a model will be available soon, this would be a custom job:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/144418

but the smaller diameter 17650 fits in without any modding.


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## framboisier (Nov 4, 2007)

still don't know wich one to buy....

- i wonder if the princeton apex pro runn with Cr123 li-ion battery in order to recharche them
- black diamond ICON seems to not be regulated despite the description from the website
- princeton APEX (not the PRO) is to heavy

What about the rayovac running with K2 ???

I will probably finish to buy a zenix IQ, wich seems to be regulated (3.5 stars from flashlightreviews)

thanks to advice me ;-) I'm lost....


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## chris_m (Nov 4, 2007)

I do a lot of night orienteering - though I'm afraid I'm using a custom made quad Cree torch with remote battery pack. I do also have a Princeton Tec Eos which I've upgraded with a Seoul P4 LED, which I am contemplating taking out on one of my less important events - that would be plenty enough light, though obviously not as good as my big homemade light. Is fine for running with, and I think the runtime should be about 3 hours
if that's enough (not sure why you need more than 2 - the longest I'm out for is 1.5 hours, unless you're talking about adventure racing (Raid des Nature) which I do also - in which case just use a lower setting for longer run time).


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## acourvil (Nov 4, 2007)

framboisier said:


> still don't know wich one to buy....
> 
> - black diamond ICON seems to not be regulated despite the description from the website



The older version is not regulated; the new version is (I have one of each).
Edit: I actually have the Xenix/Xenix IQ, not the Icon. The newer version is regulated, bit I'm not sure about the Icon. Sorry for any confusion I created.


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## BlackDecker (Nov 4, 2007)

redglare said:


> I think if I were running at night on the road I would take my Zebralight H50. I haven't run with mine yet, but I think it's great for walking at night.
> 
> 2 hours + on high from a single AA.
> 
> The broad flood beam pattern would be a lot less disorienting for me than any flashlight or headlamp with a narrow spot beam. I will say that I was a distance runner for a number of years and my stride was never very smooth. A flood beam like with the Zebralight would not appear to bounce around wildly like a that of a flashlight with a bright spot because so much of the edge of the Zebralight's beam is spread out so widely. It wouldn't be like you were looking down a narrow, bouncing tunnel of bright light. It is more like having a tiny lantern to light the way.



Sorry, I have the ZL H50 - not good at all for a running headlamp. The Rayovac Sportsman Extreme is far better for that purpose and only costs $19. The ZL is over $40.


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## Gaffle (Nov 5, 2007)

Hello Framboisier! I was thinking about a light that is made close to you. Peztl Myo Xp. I have one and I enjoy it very much. You can go from spot to flood with a flick of the built in diffuser. It is not regulated, but if you fill it with NiMH batteries it will have a much more flat discharge rate. Runtime will last you a whole night, easy. 

It does have a kind of flimsy piece of rubber that goes over the batteries. It isn't sealed too tight so I wouldn't call it waterproof. I have used it while it was raining on fishing trips with no problem. If you aren't swimming with it on I think you would be OK.


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## GerryL (Nov 5, 2007)

I use the Tikka XP for about everything. I've been running with it recently, usually only need the low setting. It's bigger than some, but it's been fine for my 3-4 mile runs. I also snowshoe with it in the winter, and I just came in from the woods when I used it to check on a game camera I've got out back. I've tried a few headlights, and I have to say this is my favorite all-around light. I also put in the red diffuser for when I go flying, then I have a good backup light in case of electrical failure. The only time I don't like it (or any headlight for that matter) is when I'm out and my breath/vapor is so thick/visible that the light illuminates it and blinds me. The convenience of a headlight sure is nice though. On last nights run I decided to carry two other flashlights for comparison on the run. One was the ROV 3watt 2AA...about 1/2 way through the run a neighbors dog was out. Normally they're not a problem, but with the time change they're not used to us running after dark. I could hear the dog barking a bit aggressively as we approached, then it made the run, blasting across the lawn and into the road, now snarling a bit. We stopped, Robin got the OCS ready, but when it was 10' away I lit it up with the ROV...Dead silence and it came to a skidding halt! It's eyes were like saucers in the light. Then it just turned around and went back up to the house with a few meek barks along the way.  It was nice to not have to hit it with the OCS. 
-Gerry


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## chris_m (Nov 6, 2007)

GerryL said:


> I use the Tikka XP for about everything.
> ...I've tried a few headlights, and I have to say this is my favorite all-around light.


Ah, but have you tried the PT Eos? Is far brighter than a Tikka XP, and also regulated so keeps constant brightness. IMHO it is far superior to the Tikka XP, at least for what the OP wants (where the diffuser and red tint cover aren't very useful).


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## framboisier (Nov 6, 2007)

I finally buy a BLACK DIAMOND ZENIX IQ on deutch-ebay

reasons :
-good regulation
-several modes
-not heavy
-running with 2AA
-possibilitiy to mod it if i think the bright is not enough

thanks for all your posts, i will give you a review when i will receive it


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## GerryL (Nov 6, 2007)

chris_m said:


> Ah, but have you tried the PT Eos? Is far brighter than a Tikka XP, and also regulated so keeps constant brightness. IMHO it is far superior to the Tikka XP, at least for what the OP wants (where the diffuser and red tint cover aren't very useful).


 
Hmm, no I haven't...it looks very interesting though. Another one for the list. And I thought I was set for a while since I bought 17 flashlights in the last 6 days. I think I have a problem. (at least 12 of them were a dozen PALs I split with someone).


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## acourvil (Nov 6, 2007)

framboisier said:


> I finally buy a BLACK DIAMOND ZENIX IQ on deutch-ebay
> 
> reasons :
> -good regulation
> ...



The mod is very easy if you just want to swap the main emitter (lux for seoul):

















I also tried swapping the concentrator lens for a reflector, but decided I liked the lens better (and avoided the need add a flat lens to seal the reflector)


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## GaryF (Nov 6, 2007)

Current 2007 version of the Zenix-IQ has a reflector, the older 2006 version used the plastic optic. I modded the 2006 version with a Seoul SSCP4 with a good beam result by just reusing the optic, but I'm not sure what will happen when attempting the change with the newer reflector version. 

Buying off Ebay it could end up being a reflector or an optic.


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## BSBG (Nov 12, 2007)

I have the current version with the reflector. I took it apart and it doesn't look too hard to swap the star, but can I reuse the same reflector with an SSC P4, or do I need a different sized opening? That would complicate the swap a bit...


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## acourvil (Nov 12, 2007)

Should be the same. You might need need a .030 spacer to get it in the right position, depending on how the reflector is set up. I haven't tried it with this light, but generally the seouls are pretty close to a straight swap with the lux.


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## cedarcreek (Nov 12, 2007)

framboisier said:


> i dont want just a lamp for running, i practice also "course d'orientation" (don't know the english for this sport...) you runn in forest/country in order to find "tags" (balises).
> 
> so i look for a just middle with lightweigt and bright... i think i will get a ICON not expensive on US ebay and i'll maybe mod it later



I just bought a headlamp made for orienteering---A Silva 478:
http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/silva_478_lightweight_headlamp/

I put together a battery pack from US cell suppliers rather than pay big bucks for the Silva packs, which cost more than the headlamp. I have a 10-cell pack of 4/3 Af cells. At 6V, the 10 NiMH cells give you 8000 mAh (rather than the 9000 mAh Silva). I paid about $50US for that battery pack. (I did have to order the connector from Sweden: http://www.letro.se/default.asp?pag...op/shopfiles/shopartinfo_mer.ASP?ProdId=16657 )

It's awesome for running at night. I wear the battery in a small camelback pack under my shirt.

I get 2.5-3 hours of 20W runtime, and double that on 10W.

The most amazing thing is how light it is on your head. You notice it much less than even a Princeton Tec EOS. It's that light. 

Yeah, it's halogen. It's old tech. But unless you're doing an adventure race (where you need all-night runtimes), it's amazing. I prefer the incandescent color rendition, too. (Although I do have some less powerful LEDs with good color.)

There are several 10W/20W manufacturers. I got this one because at the time it was the cheapest I could find. I might have gotten a Mila (with the aluminum reflector) if I could have gotten it for less.

There has been a technological explosion with high-end bikelight HIDs and LEDs, but the prices for those products seem too high.

I really want one of those Argo HP headlamps. Two or three 18650s would get you through the night.


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## chris_m (Nov 13, 2007)

Though one of the big advantages of my LED setup is the size of the battery - two 18650 LiIon cells will power the Quad LED for 1.5 hours on high (700mA), with longer runtimes without much less light if I turn it down a tad - I reckon the 175mA 6 hour setting is still as bright as a 20W halogen.

BTW Silva connectors are just Molex 3191 series http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/searchBrowseAction.do?N=0&Ntk=I18NAll&Ntt=236-3117
- though surely also available in the US.


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## cedarcreek (Nov 13, 2007)

chris_m said:


> BTW Silva connectors are just Molex 3191 series http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/rswww/searchBrowseAction.do?N=0&Ntk=I18NAll&Ntt=236-3117
> - though surely also available in the US.



I looked at the photo and the data sheet, and they don't show anything about the 2-conductor version. Looking at what they show, you'd never guess that was the right series. The metal pin inserts look right.

I've been toying with the idea of making a plug-and-play mod for the 478 by making a little board/heat sink with bipins of the right spacing on the bottom, and one or more emitters on the top at the right focal position in the reflector.


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## BSBG (Nov 17, 2007)

I modded my Zenix (reflector version) today. It was simple, even for a soldering newbie like me. I checked the fit of the reflector prior to removing the Lux, it appears fine and in focus.

The swap took all of 15 minutes from start to finish, and the output is much greater. I used a USVOH star from Photonfanatic for a 'warm' tint.

It's still daylight, but roaming around the dark basement, the output is much greater on all 3 levels. Beam pattern seems about the same - large center hot spot and plenty of spill. The next early morning run will tell for sure.

*Edited to add some thoughts after use...:thumbsup:*

I highly recommend swapping the emitter. The headlamp is now a true multi level headlamp. With the stock Luxeon, the 2 5mm LEDs on high were about equal in output to the Lux on low, maybe even medium. Now, the P4 on low is a bit brighter and has more throw than the 5mms on high, and the P4 on medium or high is just amazing. I have been using the P4 on low for road running in the dark, switching to medium in the rain. Prior to the swap, the Lux on high was almost unnoticeable on the wet street.

I am so pleased with this I may buy a couple more for backup, in the car emergency use, etc.


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