# SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?



## yaesumofo (Nov 15, 2007)

Hey guys. I have had my titan for a few days now and it is on it's way back to Surefire after taking a fall from around my neck.
After the fall it would NOT turn off.

Before the fall I have to admit that I was not happy with the action of the light. too tight not easy to operate with one hand.
There is also a small amount of debris on the emitter. Amazing for a light of this Caliber.
I now have an RMA and will report the results of the return/repair/replacement here.
What about you guys?
I am very disappointed. IMHO the TITAN should be more durable and should have a perfect action.
BTW Please guys this is NOT a titan Bashing thread. Please keep your comments to your own experience with your broken or malfunctioning TITAN. Opinions and bashing comments are best posted elsewhere. If You do not own a broken or malfunctioning TITAN please do not comment here. Thanks.

Yaesumofo


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 15, 2007)

I would say that I have no mechanical or visual issues with mine. I've posted my dislikes in my review post, but I really wouldn't call them problems. I have not yet dropped mine, so I can't comment there, however I'd expect it to not only handle a drop, but a kick, throw and runover as well.

I'm assuming your light was "ON" when it dropped?


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## yaesumofo (Nov 15, 2007)

It was OFF when dropped. I had it on a break away lanyard. It broke away.
I did not see it hit but I assume it hit bezel first.
I have a feeling that Surefire is using some sort of pressure fit pin system to connect the boards ( I think that is what I see in the xrey shot of the titan) The G's it hit the ground with were enough to cause one of those connections to fail. I am a guessing ofcourse since I did not open the thing up.
Surefire was cheerful about having me sent it in.
10 days to 2 weeks turnaround.
Still bummed
Yaesumofo



this_is_nascar said:


> I would say that I have no mechanical or visual issues with mine. I've posted my dislikes in my review post, but I really wouldn't call them problems. I have not yet dropped mine, so I can't comment there, however I'd expect it to not only handle a drop, but a kick, throw and runover as well.
> 
> I'm assuming your light was "ON" when it dropped?


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## Christoph (Nov 15, 2007)

I have something stuck to my emitter dome. I was going to use it a while and see how it goes before deciding weather or not to send it back for that. No effect on the beam but I can see it on the dome.I also get that flash when ramping down and once or twice it has not turned off all the way the first time,like Greenstuffs reported.
C


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## jspalmer (Nov 15, 2007)

Mine has been excellent so far. The bezel has gotten easier to turn over time and I have dropped it twice, once on the garage floor and once on asphalt while walking the dog. A couple of nicks, but still good as new.


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## nitrox1 (Nov 16, 2007)

Mine went back yesterday. Rearward pressure on the bezel (like when adjusting one handed) would often times cause the light to powerdown or flash. Sometimes it wouldn't power back up after 1 or 2 full on off cycles. Othertimes you could push pull twist the bezel however you liked and it would work fine. Replaced battery with fresh duracell, problem still there.

Fit, finish, and bezel action were fine in my book. No debris inside the light, but some gunk was on the lens when removed from box. 

Looking forward to getting a working one. I plan on keeping and using this light.

John


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## Telkin (Nov 16, 2007)

My Detent pin on my lanyard attachment fell out which is a bonus now because I do not need to align it to attach or detach the lanyard tail. Even without the detent pin there is no chance of it disconnecting accidentally. There are 2 small specs of dust on my reflector/lens.

Other than that perfect. Use it everyday and it's getting even more buttery smooth.


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## jeffb (Nov 16, 2007)

Detent pin fell out on #005, as well. Surefire want's the whole light back. I am not as convinced that the lanyard attachment will not come off, as have had a lanyard attached and it appears as if, in the right position, it could come off.

Have not decided, yet, to return for repair?

jeffb


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## Manzerick (Nov 16, 2007)

#347 has been good to me! I haven't done anything but White wall hunt and it's smooth and has a nice beam/color.

I always seem to luck out with my Surefires (other than the U2 tailcap issue)


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## Telkin (Nov 16, 2007)

jeffb said:


> Detent pin fell out on #005, as well. Surefire want's the whole light back. I am not as convinced that the lanyard attachment will not come off, as have had a lanyard attached and it appears as if, in the right position, it could come off.
> 
> Have not decided, yet, to return for repair?



I don't think I will send it for replacement. What will I do when it's gone??!! I guess I don't use my lanyard attachment too much so it's still very stiff to take off. Very little chance of accidental detachment.


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## tvodrd (Nov 16, 2007)

I've had mine 2 weeks to the day and it would occasionally, momentarily bright flash on turn-on. I think it's only done it once in the past week, and I can't seem to force it to do so by push/pull twisting. It is a little larger than the CR2 light I am used to. :green:









Larry


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## Kiessling (Nov 16, 2007)

Except for the well known somewhat gritty turning action no problems here so far. Knock on wood.


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## sbebenelli (Nov 16, 2007)

Mine works fine. No complaints at all.


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## MSaxatilus (Nov 16, 2007)

> I've had mine 2 weeks to the day and it would occasionally, momentarily bright flash on turn-on. I think it's only done it once in the past week, and I can't seem to force it to do so by push/pull twisting. It is a little larger than the CR2 light I am used to. :green:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

You show-off Larry!!! :nana:

MSax


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 16, 2007)

I need a couple you guys to try this. Take off the lanyard cap to allow for tailend standing. Turn the Titon on all the way. Place it down on its tail on a hard surface. Don't slam it down, but place it down rather hard. Let me know if the light blinks at the moment of impact.


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## Kiessling (Nov 16, 2007)

No blinky.


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## tvodrd (Nov 16, 2007)

No flicker here and I smacked the wood desktop pretty hard several times.

Larry


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## sbebenelli (Nov 16, 2007)

None for me either


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## Kiessling (Nov 16, 2007)

Note: a new thread about the disassambly of the Titan has been split off here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180426

... so that we can continue this one on topic.

bernie


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## MSaxatilus (Nov 16, 2007)

> I need a couple you guys to try this. Take off the lanyard cap to allow for tailend standing. Turn the Titon on all the way. Place it down on its tail on a hard surface. Don't slam it down, but place it down rather hard. Let me know if the light blinks at the moment of impact.



Neither Titan No. 57 or No. 124 blinked after whacking it down as requested.

MSax


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 16, 2007)

OK, thanks guys. I'll try it again. Maybe it's just me seeing something incorrectly.


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 16, 2007)

For those of you who have reported the safety pin dropping out of position, I noticed that if you grab the split-ring and turn on it, the attachment disk turns as well. I'm not will to try it, but if your is broken already, try turning it and see if it unscrews.


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## sbebenelli (Nov 17, 2007)

Just wondering if anyone has experienced this. When I first got my Titan I had to turn it more than I do now to turn it on. I would say I turn it half as much as I used before it turns on. It works fine. Just wondering if anyone else have noticed this.


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## Talas (Nov 17, 2007)

The issues I have are cosmetic: specks of dust inside the lens, deep scratches on the lanyard attachment, front end cap that holds the lens is much darker than the rest of the body, tailcap unscrews too easily and threads have a lot of play, and annoyingly gritty twist action (I've been playing with it constantly hoping that it will get smoother). Intending to EDC but do not trust the lanyard as the attachment point is too thin and I'm afraid the body will unscrew itself and fall off without me noticing. Output is significantly less than my new L1 on high. Placed my order in January and tolerated the countless delays associated with SF releases so was expecting that they were really going out of their way to make this light outstanding. Overall, I am dissapointed and not feeling like I received my money's worth. That being said, I will be keeping the light.


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## yaesumofo (Nov 18, 2007)

Other than the fact that mine broke after a simple 3 or 4 foot fall, Your issues mirror mine.
The debris on the emitter..the terrible action the general feeling that the TITAN was really billed as a GEM of a flashlight. 
IMHO Surefire disappointed with this one.

You could have knocked me over with a feather when it broke. I was actually willing to "wait and see" if the light just needed to break in a but.
When I receive it back I will have to think long and hard about whether or not this is a keeper.
I have so many other flashlights with equal or better utility which will see more use. 

I guess I would say that my issues may be broader than just the light breaking. The fact that Surefire put so much into this light and for it to be just OK for quite a number of people.
The TITAN should excel and exceed our expectations. We shouldn't have to settle for less than perfection.
Why should 1/3 or 1/3 of the TITAN buyers be happy with a Flashlight which is close to perfect and the others feel like they have not received a good value or that they received a less than perfect flashlight. Does this mean that there are a bunch of TITANS which have perfect actions and nice threads and no grittyness and that many of us received a light which should not have pased QC?
Or is it that some of us have higher standards than others.
I wonder.

IMHO it is too bad that Surefire did not consult some of the extremely talented flashlight designers and makers here on the CPF on the TITAN. Have a look at some of the amazing lights which get made and sold for somewhat less than the TITAN with quality levels which far exceeded the TITAN and you may begin to understand where my thinking is bleeding me.
I suppose this is an opportunity to learn a lesson.
For me Surefire has an opportunity to make things right. to make MY TITAN perfect. If they succede I wil be happy. I just hope I haven't set my sights too high.


Yaesumofo





Talas said:


> The issues I have are cosmetic: specks of dust inside the lens, deep scratches on the lanyard attachment, front end cap that holds the lens is much darker than the rest of the body, tailcap unscrews too easily and threads have a lot of play, and annoyingly gritty twist action (I've been playing with it constantly hoping that it will get smoother). Intending to EDC but do not trust the lanyard as the attachment point is too thin and I'm afraid the body will unscrew itself and fall off without me noticing. Output is significantly less than my new L1 on high. Placed my order in January and tolerated the countless delays associated with SF releases so was expecting that they were really going out of their way to make this light outstanding. Overall, I am disappointed and not feeling like I received my money's worth. That being said, I will be keeping the light.


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## Size15's (Nov 18, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> For me Surefire has an opportunity to make things right. to make MY TITAN perfect. If they succede I wil be happy. I just hope I haven't set my sights too high.
> Yaesumofo


It is what it is and therefore I fear you will continue to be disappointed.
I don't expect anything to be perfect. In fact the more something means to me the less I try to expect perfection from it.


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## sbebenelli (Nov 18, 2007)

this_is_nascar said:


> I need a couple you guys to try this. Take off the lanyard cap to allow for tailend standing. Turn the Titon on all the way. Place it down on its tail on a hard surface. Don't slam it down, but place it down rather hard. Let me know if the light blinks at the moment of impact.



Could this be the battery compressing with the spring and loosing contact with the head of the light? The spring isn't very big or strong in the Titan.


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 18, 2007)

sbebenelli said:


> Could this be the battery compressing with the spring and loosing contact with the head of the light? The spring isn't very big or strong in the Titan.



Excellent point. I hadn't considered that.


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## Thujone (Nov 18, 2007)

Size15's said:


> It is what it is and therefore I fear you will continue to be disappointed.
> I don't expect anything to be perfect. In fact the more something means to me the less I try to expect perfection from it.



While from one side I see your point, my wife for instance means the world to me so I put up with her shortfalls. However she did not roll off an assembly line, nor did I pay a premium for her. So I have no expectation of perfection... A limited run pricey collectors item should be well tested and function as well as every other item in the series. For 500 bucks an owner has every right to be treated at least as well as a customer is treated who buys a Fenix for a tenth the cost... Just my opinion...


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## Size15's (Nov 18, 2007)

SureFire have not created a "Titan Zone" on their website, nor have they informed Titan owners that they are supported by a dedicated SureFire Representative.
SureFire have not indicated that they consider the Titan to be special in terms of its price, nor in terms of the service it provides in relation to it.


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## McShawn (Nov 18, 2007)

Mi Titan just wigged out tonight. When i turned it on after being in my pocket all day it started strobbing. I turned it off and one and few times and the strobbing does not go away. I replaced the battery and now it just strobbes at a lower light level. Has anyone had this happen to them?
I guess I get to call surefire tomorrow.
Shawn


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## yaesumofo (Nov 19, 2007)

Please do not continue to drive this topic further off course.
Please refer to the first post in the thread.
You should better as an admin.
Yaesumofo



Size15's said:


> It is what it is and therefore I fear you will continue to be disappointed.
> I don't expect anything to be perfect. In fact the more something means to me the less I try to expect perfection from it.


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## Size15's (Nov 19, 2007)

Fair enough - lets limit discussion to issues only - whys and wherefores - feelings and assumptions can be discussed in another thread.


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## yaesumofo (Nov 26, 2007)

Now that we have been blown etly off topic maybe we can resume this channel to nornal communications.
How is everybody doing with their TITAN. Mine is in the shop for repair. I look fowared to receiving it backom SF. I really hope it lives up to my expectations.
Yaesumofo


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## Kilovolt (Nov 26, 2007)

I've had mine for exactly one week. Apart from the slightly gritty action of the head (we now know how the retaining ring works) no problem whatsoever. :santa:

After some thought I have finally decided not to lube the ring for fear of having the lube itself all over my trousers. :shakehead


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## RedLED (Nov 26, 2007)

Mine is fine.

It's all good. 

Positive.

All good.


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## EricMack (Nov 26, 2007)

My Titan was smooth right out of the box. Brighter than the Proto we saw last year at SHOT. Been using it alot in the last week, and its worked perfectly. One-handed operation is fine. Overall, the light has met and somewhat exceeded my expectations.


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## gswitter (Nov 26, 2007)

I've been EDCing mine for the past week. I've had no problems whatsoever, and I'm happy with it.


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## Arcoholic (Nov 27, 2007)

I have no issues at all after a few days the grit is gone and it just rocks. And the runtime on one Cr2 is just amazing.


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## nitrox1 (Dec 3, 2007)

Any new word. Anybody gotten theirs back yet from SF? Mines been gone 19 days now. No idea of an eta. Can't wait to get it back (working) 

John


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 3, 2007)

Did you place a follow-up/status call? I'd give them a ring and asked for a status.


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 7, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> Now that we have been blown etly off topic maybe we can resume this channel to nornal communications.
> How is everybody doing with their TITAN. Mine is in the shop for repair. I look fowared to receiving it backom SF. I really hope it lives up to my expectations.
> Yaesumofo



What's the status of your repair? Have you heard back from SureFire?


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## ShortArc (Dec 10, 2007)

I just noticed that mine starts flickering at 90%+ power level given a battery voltage of 2.86V. A fresh battery resolves this problem.
Thoughts anyone…


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## marcspar (Dec 10, 2007)

Still on my first battery, but....

I like it so far - except for the appearance and function of the keychain attachment. 

Since I am using mine and do not are about its collector value, I will probably ask someone to grind it off as a brave cpf'r posted.

Mine has operated without an issue and is fairly smooth turning, not yet easy with one hand, but doable.

There is some difference in shading on the body parts but it does not bother me.

The fit and finish otherwise is perfect and the beam is very nice.

It's not a bargain at $400 +, but I am feeling no remorse.

Marc


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## tvodrd (Dec 10, 2007)

ShortArc said:


> I just noticed that mine starts flickering at 90%+ power level given a battery voltage of 2.86V. A fresh battery resolves this problem.
> Thoughts anyone…



Talk about bizarre! I grabbed a used CR2 and my DMM says exactly 2.86V! I get the same flickering/strobing! Another used cell @2.92V- no strobe. A Duracell at 2.80V won't even light it! :shrug:

Larry


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## yaesumofo (Dec 10, 2007)

I received an e-mail from Surefire 6 days ago saying 
"Dear Sir,

We apologize for the delay in response. The repair to your Titan is being completed today. It will ship back to you within the next 1-2 business days. If you have any further questions, do not hesitate to write back or call us at 1-800-828-8809. We are dedicated to providing world class customer service. 
SureFire Technical Support
1(800)828-8809 Toll Free
(714)545-9444"



That was almost a week ago.
I have not received my light back from SureFire as of yet.

I will report the quality of the repair when I receive it..Maybe tommorow?

Yaesumofo





this_is_nascar said:


> What's the status of your repair? Have you heard back from SureFire?


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 10, 2007)

Well, that certainly sucks. I hope the quality of the repair is worth the wait.


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## yaesumofo (Dec 10, 2007)

Can this be a good thing? 
I can't imaginge that it is.
How low should the voltage go?
yaesumofo




tvodrd said:


> Talk about bizarre! I grabbed a used CR2 and my DMM says exactly 2.86V! I get the same flickering/strobing! Another used cell @2.92V- no strobe. A Duracell at 2.80V won't even light it! :shrug:
> 
> Larry


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 10, 2007)

NO, not a good thing at all. This thing should fire on voltage much lower than that I'd hope. Even these lights with all this wiz-bang, SOS, Strobe, etc will fire on 2.4 volts.


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## tvodrd (Dec 10, 2007)

Lith primaries are pretty flat discharge and way down on remaining capacity at 2.8V. I put the 2.86V cell in the light and backed off the brightness until it *just* quit strobing, and set it down. That was 2 hours ago, and it warmed up and cooled off while the output slowly decreased to a very usable level. As I type this, I am turning it off to see if it will "re-strike." It did! I just measured the cell and it reads 2.03V! wtf! Rechecked and got 2.1V. Put it back in and it still lights! 

I strongly suspect "surface charge effects," as a voltmeter is not a viable measure of remaining capacity for a lith primary.

I'm still running the cell mine came with and I use the hell out of it, and that's after two continents!  I think I would rate "strobing" on high with a dying cell a _feature,_ as opposed to a problem! I plugged the cell back in, and will attempt to figure out what "moon mode" is about on the sucker!

Larry


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## tvodrd (Dec 10, 2007)

At 3 hours, the sucker will still light with the cell at 1.87V. (A cheap DP cell from BS way back when!) It's definitely some species of "moon mode," but the level is more than adiquite to navigate my dark house. I'm favorably impressed!

Larry


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 11, 2007)

Good news Larry. That makes me feel better and more in-line with what I'd expect.


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## ShortArc (Dec 11, 2007)

I don’t quite share Larry’s enthusiasm over this “feature”. Flickering always reminds me of immanent failure.

As the battery drains the flickering becomes less.
[Edit] Also just notices that the flickering intensity varies.

Something very strange happened with the supplied Panasonic battery which does not with happen with the Duracell Ultra.
As you increase the power the light will reach some maximum output and shut off if you turn beyond that point (ie @2.75V I could turn the dial 70% of max beyond which the light would just shut off). To re-illuminate you have to turn it all the way back to zero.
Now with the Duracell you can just crank it all the way to max and it will slightly flicker but stay lit. As the voltage drops it just becomes dimmer but will not shut off. I can not explain how a battery can make that difference? Or if there is a bug in the electronics?

[Edit] Both bats went down to 2.15V before shutdown.

Cheers,
Willem.


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## yaesumofo (Dec 11, 2007)

Hi guys I decided to call SF to find out what is going on with my TITAN.
They told me that there was a delay and that they had decided to replace the whole light except for the body. all of the electronic parts, reflector front end and so forth. I suspect this way I get to keep my serial number.

They obviously outsource the electronic package and are waiting for that. 
He promised me that in the end I would be happy and the light would function perfectly and would have a smooth action.

I suspect that My light is going to be hand rebuilt and as is always true with factory repairs the QC will be very stringent.

So They said that those parts will come in as late as Thursday (I think he is hoping) and that I should have my light back in about a week from today. We will see. They were very apologetic about the delay and are being extremely polite using yes sirs and no sirs. A bigger the top really. Hell it is only a flashlight.

All that said. I look forward to the day when Surefire sells an aluminum version (They will) and has them with different color emitters.) I want one which emits GREEN. I wouldn't mind one in RED either.


I will report again when I receive mt TITAN back from Surefire

Yaesumofo


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## Size15's (Dec 11, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> They obviously outsource the electronic package and are waiting for that.
> ...
> So They said that those parts will come in as late as Thursday


SureFire assembles the electronics packages themselves.
SureFire have several facilities. The Titan is special because Engineering team members do the majority of the construction and assembly for the Titan, indeed by hand. This is not normal operating procedure.
Based on what you've said I suggest the Titan requires parts and components to be sourced and processed at several of SureFire's facilities prior to being shipped.
Essentially they are assembled by hand in the proto-type workshop by PK's team.


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## greenLED (Dec 11, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> I look forward to the day when Surefire sells an aluminum version (They will) and has them with different color emitters.) I want one which emits GREEN



Bucket full of  for that one! Graduation present, anyone? 

It'd be the only way I'd swap out my green LED ArcAAA out of my keychain. Actually, no, that'll stay there, but the Ti(Altan?) might be the perfect pocket EDC light.


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## ShortArc (Dec 11, 2007)

For me: All in all...what a great light!:twothumbs


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## nitrox1 (Dec 12, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> They told me that there was a delay and that they had decided to replace the whole light except for the body. all of the electronic parts, reflector front end and so forth. I suspect this way I get to keep my serial number.
> Yaesumofo





Thank you for the report. I will hold off calling them for a week or 2 based on their reply to you. No need to be redundent. Looking forward to getting mine back, as it's a very trick light.

John...


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## ShortArc (Dec 12, 2007)

Sent Surefire an email and called regarding the flickering. It is definitely not normal and the light should be returned for repair.
I received an RMA number in response to my email and was told the turnaround time for Titan repairs is 3-4 weeks but they are working on expediting this more quickly.
Cheers,
Willem.


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## tvodrd (Dec 12, 2007)

I'm still running on the cell that came with it, and have used it every morning to find my way to to my truck to drive to work, and every evening several times to pour a "toddy."

I'm gonna run it down "naturally" and see what happens. (Twisting it all the way up on a regular basis.) 

I'll hold off on returning mine (In person,  ) until I figure out if it's a problem or not!

Larry


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## Arcoholic (Dec 13, 2007)

O.K.
now i do have a minor issue, the quickrelease to the lanyard now releases almost too easy, after a few weeks of use. I can now just pull the light out of the attachment point by pulling it with one hand sideways. Not too easy to explain but the whole assy, relaxed a good bit. I have no intention of sending it back but i might give them a ring


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## yaesumofo (Dec 14, 2007)

Much to my amazement My TITAN repaired arrived today. It is still #943.
OK My impressions.
The action is smooth but STIFF. Not easy to operate with one hand.
There is a little flicker at the bright end while working the twist.
I hope goes away and is a matter of breaking the light in a bit.

The emitter is slightly OFF center. Now the is not much room in the reflector hole for an off center emitter. There is the possibility that the actual center of the light emitting part of the emitter is centered. It is hard to tell. IMHO it would be more important to center the area which emits light rather than the whole emitter. In any event the centering is within a reasonable tolerance. The areas involved would be measured in just a few 1000ths' of an inch.

There is no significant debris in the emitter/reflector chamber.


OK My TITAN is now working. It was not when I sent it in for repair.
There is an improvement in the debris on the emitter this unit is clean.
The light is nice and bright. The tint is improved the repaired unit is not as BLUE as the original. I like the tint More on the repaired unit than the original. It may be brighter. I did not take a measurement prior to shipping.
My big wish here is that my titan would have a smooth and easy to activate action. Using 2 hands is not always an option.
I wish it was as easy to operate as any of my Pd's. I love the Pd's action.
I think the flicker will go away with use.

OK that's it. I would like to hear from you guys who a TITAN how easy or tight the action is when compared to a PD (the gold standard in twisty actions IMHO). I am also interested in your emitter centering. Is the emitter centered or is the area which emits light centered?
Surefire seems to be taking their time with these. For good reason. Since they are a very expensive flashlight and they have a commitment to repair these for the life of the (well Hell I don't know what)..but it is a long time. It makes perfect sense that it will cost them less to repair light right the first time. Having to repair a TITAN more than once could easily cost the company any profit made on the light. Having to do it more than once would eat into any profits that the TITAN program would generate for the company. In order for this light to be produced in Aluminum The light would almost have to not be a huge liability for the company.
I will end my titan for a week or two and see how it goes. I often carry my PD in the same Lanyard carry mode I am carrying the TITAN in. My hope is that MY TITAN becomes a smooth operating flashlight and takes the #1 position in the EDC rotation. I will report how things are going in a week or two here in this thread.
Yaesumofo


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## nitrox1 (Dec 14, 2007)

Thank you Yaesumofo. I appreciate your report. Mine too had a very bluish tint, which i don't care for. Hopefully it will come back whiter like yours. My Ti PD-S is super white.

How did they ship it to you? USPS, UPS, FED-EX. 

I'll report on my repairs once I get it back and use it a few days.

John


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## yaesumofo (Dec 14, 2007)

It arrived via UPS.
I have lubed the light with 1/16 of a drop of nanolube with the hope that it's action becomes smoother. 
I figure that like most titanium flashlights the TITAN just needs to be used A LOT before it becomes truly smooth action wise.
The event which sent this TITAN to Surefire was a 4.5 to 5 foot fall to the ground.
Not a big fall.
This doesn't fill me with confidence.
I wonder if SureFire did drop tests during the R and D phase of this light. I would love to see those results if they exist. I can't imagine that there was NOT a durability component during design testing.
As it stands I will be VERY careful to no submit my TITAN to any strong G forces. I woulkd love to see the results from any drop testing which may have been done.

I really like the threaded tail. I plan to look into making an alternative to the OEM lanyard connection which utilizes the threads....Just thinking out loud here.
Must remember that the market is SMALL.
Yaesumofo





nitrox1 said:


> Thank you Yaesumofo. I appreciate your report. Mine too had a very bluish tint, which i don't care for. Hopefully it will come back whiter like yours. My Ti PD-S is super white.
> 
> How did they ship it to you? USPS, UPS, FED-EX.
> 
> ...


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## yaesumofo (Jan 6, 2008)

Well after a few weeks back My titan is the same as it was when it cam back to me.
there is a decided FLICKER near the brightest when turning the light DOWN but not when turning it up.
IMHO there should be NO flicker..none.
I don't get it. Surefire had this light for weeks. then they sent it back to me with this issue. I figured it would go away with use. No such luck.
Hey do any of you guys with titans have any kind of flicker issue?
Yaesumofo


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## Kilovolt (Jan 6, 2008)

No flickering on mine in any condition.

The only minor issue, already reported by someone else, is that occasionally when I turn off the light it remains on at a level slightly higher than minimum (regardless of the speed of turning the head) and I have to repeat the operation. 
It does that maybe once every 7-10 days.:thinking:


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## Size15's (Jan 6, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> IMHO there should be NO flicker..none.


Yaesumofo, if you're not satisfied with it - send it back again.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 6, 2008)

No issues here. If anything, the twisting action has gotten smoother with use.


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## karlthev (Jan 6, 2008)

I wasn't/am currently not interested in a Titan but, for $500 and, considering the size/reputation of the company and, the fact that this was a limited production run, I'm surprised that this wasn't resolved the first time it was sent in. This does seem to be an unusual scenario for this light however, even more reason for it to have been given priority attention. Just my opinion though....


Karl


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## cy (Jan 6, 2008)

Ice Storm Tulsa, enormous amount of tree debris everywhere. In other words loads of chainsaw/moving heavy wood work. 200,000+ folks without power. downed trees in almost every yard. 

after a hard day of clearing tree debris. putting my chainsaws away, was taking off my kevlar safety gear...... my Titan drops on the kitchen floor! 

Titan had separated from it's lanyard around my neck. evidently slots had aligned up just right during my strenuous activities. really lucky Titan didn't fall out earlier, no telling where it would have ended up. 

really like my Titan, but now no longer trust it's clip. it's got to go. 
thinking of machining out a short threaded rod with a drilled hole on the end. 

TICO makes a Ti hex socket cap screw http://ticotitaniuminc.thomasnet.co...0&origin=&assetid=spec&forward=1&backtoname=#

Titan shouldn't fall off regardless of what you are doing. got a two week hike at Philmont coming up this summer. no way Titan is coming along unless this issue gets resolved.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 6, 2008)

Berkley Point (spelling?) sells one of those attachments that can be screwed in to end of the Titan, with a d-ring type end. That can be used as a lanyard attachement. You could probably lock-tite the sucker in there and never have to worry about it coming off.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 6, 2008)

Something like THIS. You can purchase that attachment point seperately, however I can't find it.


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2008)

The lanyard attachment was my main reason to sell mine, I now see I made the right decision. 

For a light that has been in the pipeline so long I was amazed at the dumb design of it...


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## yaesumofo (Jan 6, 2008)

it would be a good idea to put a locking pin through it. LOC tight ? vs a locking pin? I would go with the pin.

BTW all it took was a short fall (like one where the clip fails) to kill my Titan the first time.

Size 15..
I can't express how disappointed I am with this Maybe my expectations were too high.
What I don't get is the randomness of it. Clearly there are a majority of units which perform perfectly. There may be lots which flicker in the hands of people who don't know the difference I don't know.
It is almost as though that when it was over in service they just did a drop in replacement assuming that it would operate perfectly...Or they decided to send it with a flicker figuring I wouldn't care or god forbid the flicker is considered within spec!!
As it is the personal side of surefire service is great. Lets face 90% of the time when a unit breaks on a surefire a drop in replacement will take care of the problem. The titan is full of new (for surefire) technology. Interesting that even here on the cpf we still don't know how it actually works. we have x-rayed it and figured out how to take it apart and done it (I haven't done it but it has been done) It is a pretty well studied light.
It is also a pretty expensive light.
For what it cost me I could have bought a very nice CUSTOM Titanium flashlight. 
Anyway I choose the TITAN. and I will stick with it. I like it's design. I like how it operates.
Hell I even like the clip.
I don't like the flicker and it will go back again.
Yaesumofo





this_is_nascar said:


> Something like THIS. You can purchase that attachment point separately, however I can't find it.


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## Size15's (Jan 6, 2008)

I understand your disappointment - I really do.
Regardless of how we try to manage our own expectations there is always a strong sense of disappointment when something we didn't expect to have issues - turns out to.

The first time I had a SureFire product have an issue, then again when I had a SureFire product fail - it dents the confidence.
But what I've taken away from the experience and this is mirrored by my experiences in general is that we go through life 'collecting things that just work' - that we have learned to trust and rely on - and yet - they can still disappoint us - they can still fail.

It's what we do then that defines our character. There are times when I've had to reach for my backup [plan] and move ahead.


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## tvodrd (Jan 6, 2008)

I've EDC'd mine for a full 2 months now, and the bright flash at turn-on hasn't been seen for over a month. I can turn it on one-handed with ease and when lipping it, (frequent) I can turn it off with just lip pressure holding the body. They do smooth with use/wear-in. My first cell developed the strobing at shortly before end of life. I'm on my 2nd, and cell life is very good. Sorry you're still having problems Yaesu.

Larry


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## nitrox1 (Jan 13, 2008)

Tomorrow marks the 2 month anniversary of sending mine back. Still waiting patiently for it's arrival. Surefire responded to an email from me about 3 weeks ago stating they were rebuilding the head. 

I had it for 1 day and realized that it was defective. Hopefully it will come back working right. If not, back it goes. If it can't be fixed properly, I'm going to want a refund. 

Please everyone keep us posted on your repair results. Initial problem, did it get fixed properly, turnaround time etc.

Thanks,
John...


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 13, 2008)

nitrox1 said:


> Tomorrow marks the 2 month anniversary of sending mine back. Still waiting patiently for it's arrival. Surefire responded to an email from me about 3 weeks ago stating they were rebuilding the head.
> 
> I had it for 1 day and realized that it was defective. Hopefully it will come back working right. If not, back it goes. If it can't be fixed properly, I'm going to want a refund.
> 
> ...



As far as I'm concerned, this is pretty damn unacceptable. I know there are several folks here at CPF that have an "in" with SureFire. It might be nice to use that advantage to let some of the folks at SF know this is pretty crappy customer service shown to a buyer that was willing to shell-out several hundred dollars for one of their products.

PK, are you reading this? I know it's not your area within SF, but WTF?


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## Size15's (Jan 13, 2008)

The Titan has a delicate assembly process and there are only a few engineers at SureFire who can assemble them properly.
I understand that Titans are not these guys day-jobs. SureFire Engineering is extremely busy in the build-up to SHOT Show. I can see how a Titan repair/rebuild 1) takes longer than a normal product, and 2) takes longer at this time of year, not least because of Christmas and New Year but mostly because of the SHOT Shows.

I would not personally expect or demand a fast turn-around of my Titan if it was in for repair right now.

IMHO it is a different matter when it comes to customer service.

Obviously Titan owners feel they have purchased a special SureFire product - and an expensive one as well. It follows that Titan owners would think it reasonable to expect any problems or issues with their Titan to be handled with special care and customer service. SureFire don't often have special products released to the public and so I don't believe they have a dedicated customer services team to take care of issues with these types of product.

Perhaps this is something SureFire can (and need?) to do better if they're going to continue offering special runs of products?
In which case I feel that customers need to let SureFire know by writing a letter. I find that a letter carries far more weight now-a-days because they have to be physically handled and tend to require a written reply.

Al


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## nitrox1 (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks for the replies guys. I appologize if my post sounded like I was complaining. I wasn't. Just wanting to get the stats posted so others in the same boat could see that it may take a while to get these things fixed. 

SF has always taken good care of me from a CS standpoint. 2 months is a bit too long to have to wait, but it is what it is. 

T.I.N. Thank you very much for your concern on the issue. I really appreciate it. 

Size 15. Thank you for your explanation. I agree with what you are saying. 

Take care and here's to hoping we all get solid performance out of our uber-cool titans in '08. And hoping for a production version for the masses.

John...


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## Manzerick (Jan 14, 2008)

Still going strong!!! 





Manzerick said:


> #347 has been good to me! I haven't done anything but White wall hunt and it's smooth and has a nice beam/color.
> 
> I always seem to luck out with my Surefires (other than the U2 tailcap issue)


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## cy (Jan 14, 2008)

other than an unreliable lanyard clip. My Titan has performed exactly as expected. 

after a week or so of use it's smoothed out completed. roughness has all but forgotten. 

surefire should offer a ti stud w/lanyard hole option, for those who need Titan to be 100% secure on a lanyard.
I'd even be willing to pay for it. 

Just called Surefire to make sure they get feedback on un-secure lanyard clip issue. 
Surefire of course graciously offered an RMA number for repair. which I turned down, as they have no updates for Titan. according to Surefire, dent on my titan caused by dropping will not be covered. 

It's unacceptable that a $500 flashlight should come off it's lanyard clip on it's own.


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## yaesumofo (Jan 14, 2008)

Our lights went in around the same time the first time. I received mine some time ago. I wonder why you don't have yours?
They did a complete rebuild, new emitter and electronics package. I assume they would have these on hand. If not where do they come from. Where are the component packages assembled? If they made 1000 lights I would assume that they would build an additional 100 for repairs I guess they did not do this. As a result the repair time is much longer and the cost to surefire is much higher. I don't get Surefire some times.
The Joy of privately own companies.
I would call. I believe calling speed-ed up the (less than perfect ) repair of my unit. Mine is going back again BTW for a flickering during the adjustment of the brightness. 

Let me ask this question before I send the thing back.
Do any of you who have a TITAN have a light which FLICKERS during the adjustment? Mine flickers when on bright and I dim it it will flicker on the way to a lower level. It does it always in the same place at one point and sometimes in another spot. 
Should I just settle on it and accept it as it is?
(I have a hard time doing this but if it is possible that it will come back again worse than it is now...

Yaesumofo




nitrox1 said:


> Tomorrow marks the 2 month anniversary of sending mine back. Still waiting patiently for it's arrival. Surefire responded to
> 
> an email from me about 3 weeks ago stating they were rebuilding the head.
> 
> ...


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## Size15's (Jan 14, 2008)

nitrox1 said:


> Tomorrow marks the 2 month anniversary of sending mine back.
> John...


John,
You've still not received yours back?
I suggest you give SureFire a call to find out where its at.


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## Size15's (Jan 14, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> They did a complete rebuild, new emitter and electronics package. I assume they would have these on hand. If not where do they come from. Where are the component packages assembled? If they made 1000 lights I would assume that they would build an additional 100 for repairs I guess they did not do this. As a result the repair time is much longer and the cost to surefire is much higher. I don't get Surefire some times.
> The Joy of privately own companies.


I understand that the Titans are all assembled from scratch by a select few engineers at SureFire - not at all part of the normal production assembly process. Regarding how many spares (if any) SureFire have for the Titans - I wouldn't assume anything.

*You* don't get SureFire sometimes?!!
Imagine how I feel - The only certainties I can be sure of is that PK will always surprise me and SureFire are strong, powerful and confident enough to steer their ship anywhere they like regardless of how it may annoy and confuse us.

Al


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 14, 2008)

Size15's said:


> John,
> You've still not received yours back?
> I suggest you give SureFire a call to find out where its at.



With all due respect Al, do you really think it's going to make a bit of difference. In Post #79, you seemed to be defending SF with reasons why it's OK that some poor owner is without his light for many weeks.


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## Manzerick (Jan 14, 2008)

As much as we add emotion to the equation, our transactions with Surefire is just business. I admit I would be very upset had my Titan been a lemon but, I still don't agree I'm rational with these situations.


The buyer needs to respond with their $$$ and our words. If our words do not help, then the $$$ will follow. If enough $$$ marches away our words will be heard. This is not to say I am jumping aboard and bashing Surefire, I think they are still top notch, just not perfect. I can't hold them to "perfect" status but to have expectations. Would I expect them to jump for a $500 torch? Heck yes!!! 


My .02 in the world


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## Size15's (Jan 14, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> With all due respect Al, do you really think it's going to make a bit of difference. In Post #79, you seemed to be defending SF with reasons why it's OK that some poor owner is without his light for many weeks.


Actually, I do think it's going to make a difference. If he's not had any contact with SureFire since he sent it in, or no contact in the last few weeks then his calling SureFire now to determine the situation seems like a sensible action to take.

I stand by my comments suggesting there could be reasons why repairs etc take longer over the Christmas/New Year/Build-up to SHOT Show period.

Calling SureFire does not seem unreasonable though.

Al


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## MorpheusT1 (Jan 14, 2008)

Mine has been in for reapair since Mid November...
It had the VERY Gritty turning and slight flicker.


I assume there is no Money back guarantee..
I can think of numerous lights i would rather have at the moment.


Reading this thread makes me even more unsure of the light,and i dont think i can trust the lanyard attachment for EDC unless i find another viable solution.


All this is a Shame,because i love Surefire and have never had any issues with theire lights before.I consider the light a mishap from SF.



:shrug:


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## HDS_Systems (Jan 14, 2008)

I received a Titan to play with. After 10 minutes of play, it was stored back in the box for 2 weeks. When I pulled it out to show a friend, it was dead. The DVM showed the cell to be very dead - under 50mV. It took a bit to scrounge up a new CR2. To my surprise, the Titan would not turn off and stay off. It flickered dimly in the off position. It would sometimes flash very brightly in the off position or at the transition point between off and low. The problem got worse the more I played with it. After some evaluation, I was able to determine the problem was thermal in nature. When the light was cold it seemed to work as documented - off really was off. As the light reached room temperature (23C/73F), it began flickering dimly in the off position. By the time it warmed up to body temperature, the light mostly stayed on dim in the off position.

During all of this the low, medium and high settings seemed to work as advertised - a smooth transition without significant glitches.

The Titan is an elegant little light when it works. This particular one just happened to be defective.

Henry.


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## TORCH_BOY (Jan 15, 2008)

For 500 bucks you would expect better


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## nitrox1 (Jan 15, 2008)

Dropped them another line today to get an update. I'll keep posted here. Morpheus T1's post is the reason why I posted my timeline. He's been waiting two months also, and it's nice to know it's not just you that is waiting.

Thanks all,
John...


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## Christoph (Jan 15, 2008)

Cy and anyone else with a loose clip. I found mine got loose all of a sudden and as I was looking at it I noticed a gap that had not been there before.The two pieces of the clip had come partially unscrewed. I took it completely apart and cleaned it.It is a pretty neat design . After cleaning everything and putting a "little" locktite on the threads I screwed it back together and it was almost as tight as when it was new.I did stretch the spring a little before reassembling it and that helped a lot.This worked for me however YMMV. I now have more confidence in the clip staying attached.Maybe a little stronger spring would be better. Henry I'm sorry to hear about your light.
C


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## cv3po (Jan 15, 2008)

I just had a chance to play with/use a SF Titan that is owned by a friend of mine. He's not on the forums and is on his way back to the west coast but he asked if I'd post this for him. He too has a Titan that flickers. On his at least it appears to be mostly randon although it happens most often on the higher levels (not necessarily max). It also fails to turn off sometimes and will glow dimly in the off position. While he was here I showed him this thread and he's going to call SF when he arrives home. My friend owns several SF's and wasn't really aware of all the other great lights out there. He just wanted the "ultimate" EDC so he bought the most expensive small light that SF makes. After showing him some other options on the web (and the LOD Q4 on my keychain which almost made him cry) he'll probably end up selling the Titan. I must say personally that I just don't "get" the Titan. I see the collector value for sure but as an EDC the only benefit in my mind is both a bright high and really low low. The light seems to have delicate/overly complicated internals though and to me it's just overkill. Then there's the quick release attachment. Not the best design I've seen and it helps make the light quite large for a CR2. Overall, if he'd have offered to trade his Titan for my LOD Q4 on the condition that I couldn't sell it and had to EDC it.................I would have passed.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 15, 2008)

cv3po said:


> I just had a chance to play with/use a SF Titan that is owned by a friend of mine. He's not on the forums and is on his way back to the west coast but he asked if I'd post this for him. He too has a Titan that flickers. On his at least it appears to be mostly random although it happens most often on the higher levels (not necessarily max). It also fails to turn off sometimes and will glow dimly in the off position. While he was here I showed him this thread and he's going to call SF when he arrives home. My friend owns several SF's and wasn't really aware of all the other great lights out there. He just wanted the "ultimate" EDC so he bought the most expensive small light that SF makes. After showing him some other options on the web (and the LOD Q4 on my keychain which almost made him cry) he'll probably end up selling the Titan. I must say personally that I just don't "get" the Titan. I see the collector value for sure but as an EDC the only benefit in my mind is both a bright high and really low low. The light seems to have delicate/overly complicated internals though and to me it's just overkill. Then there's the quick release attachment. Not the best design I've seen and it helps make the light quite large for a CR2. Overall, if he'd have offered to trade his Titan for my LOD Q4 on the condition that I couldn't sell it and had to EDC it.................I would have passed.



Thanks for the post. I guess I just don't understand why people DON'T see the Titan as the ultimate EDC light. The fact that it goes very low (the lowest in the industry) and quite high is the sole reason one would want to carry it in my opinion. When you add that to the small size of the Titan, that makes it even more of a plus. As far as the attachment, I like it. I like the fact that I can mount it and rather quickly dismount it at the attachment point. The fact it has the camera mount (although I'll probably never use it) is another plus for the light. I know others have posted issues, but I can honestly say, I see no way of this light accidentally disengaging from the mount flange. If the sun lines with the moon and the moon lines with the stars and it's the 6th Sunday in February, along with rain, snow, sleet and sunshine at the same time....................... then it might disengage. If the Titan did not have all these things that I love about it, it would be just yet another LED light on the market. It's bad enough that every week we're seeing companies release new lights that do nothing more than what's already available.


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## cy (Jan 16, 2008)

sad to report... Titan came loose again. this time dropping on my concrete driveway. was very_lucky to see Titan drop. 

again worked hard cutting and loading up huge Oak rounds on to my trailer. two cords of Oak/Pecan wood. 

just finish backing up trailer into my back yard. heard something fall... crap! Titan just hit the pavement. good thing there was all sorts of wood debris on driveway. amazingly only put a few tiny specks on ti. 

now my new Titan has another blemish to join nick from first fall. 
I love my Titan, but it's now retired from being my EDC until a reliable solution is machined. 

No way a $500 light should have an unreliable attachment point.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 16, 2008)

cy said:


> sad to report... Titan came loose again. this time dropping on my concrete driveway. was very_lucky to see Titan drop.
> 
> again worked hard cutting and loading up huge Oak rounds on to my trailer. two cords of Oak/Pecan wood.
> 
> ...



There has to be something broken on that specific light. As stated earlier, I see no way of this occurring on the (2) Titans that I have.


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## Kilovolt (Jan 16, 2008)

Christoph said:


> Cy and anyone else with a loose clip. I found mine got loose all of a sudden and as I was looking at it I noticed a gap that had not been there before.The two pieces of the clip had come partially unscrewed. I took it completely apart and cleaned it.It is a pretty neat design . After cleaning everything and putting a "little" locktite on the threads I screwed it back together and it was almost as tight as when it was new.I did stretch the spring a little before reassembling it and that helped a lot.This worked for me however YMMV. I now have more confidence in the clip staying attached.Maybe a little stronger spring would be better. Henry I'm sorry to hear about your light.
> C


 
Can you please give us a better description of what exactly came loose. My attachment is still as good as new by I'm getting a bit nervous after reading several posts here.


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## Christoph (Jan 16, 2008)

Heres' a pic of the parts that seperate 



The shell and the collar (my names) can unscrew and with the spring washers in it there is a very close tolerance for it to maintain tension.There are about 4 or 5 threads on the piece I found that it only took two turns out to allow the clip to slip off with very little pressure.
Chris


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## Kilovolt (Jan 16, 2008)

Thanks. 

How many components in total in the part that separates from the flashlight? I mean the 'shell', the 'collar', the ring holder, the inner disk with the point that engages in the light attachment and how many other small parts?


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## Christoph (Jan 16, 2008)

I wish I had taken a pic when it was apart there are five parts the shell,collar,spring,inner disk and the laynard/lock pin piece(one piece).the spring is some kind of a bevel washer with 3 layers in a flat sprial.
C


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## cy (Jan 16, 2008)

there is nothing broken on my Titan. electronics works flawlessly. finish was perfect, until these two drops. 

don't think Titan will come off unless someone is doing something strenuous. like chainsaw duties, both time Titan cam off clip. loading heavy logs requires a bit of effort. Titan on a lanyard would get pushed around a bit. when body aligns up just rite, it can and does comes off. 

took down several monster trees today at a local church camp (freebie) casualties from the Ice Storm. As I was loading up my gear this morning. I took off Titan and put back my old faithful Li14430 back on my neck lanyard. 



this_is_nascar said:


> There has to be something broken on that specific light. As stated earlier, I see no way of this occurring on the (2) Titans that I have.


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## 4sevens (Jan 16, 2008)

cy, TIN, both of you guys are seasoned members on CPF with about 5 years
under your belt! Clash of the Titans! :sick2:

I'm still waiting on mine


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 16, 2008)

I wouldn't consider it a clash, but rather me trying to understand. If cy is saying it's lining up perfectly and the proper amount of force is being created at the exact same time it's lined up, I'm saying that something is wrong. I'm not saying it's not happening to him, I'm saying that something isn't right.

Regardless, if was happening to me, I'd be pissed about it too, so no arguments there.


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## tvodrd (Jan 16, 2008)

Hey cy, Li 14430, where'd you get that POS?  I _presume_ you've upgraded it to a P4, and cut-down a McR-S to fit! :nana: 

Larry


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## ShortArc (Jan 17, 2008)

Just talked to SF and a batch of repaired Titans "should" be shipping out this week (via UPS)!
Regards,
Willem.


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## cy (Jan 17, 2008)

Hey Larry, nope have not upgraded to P4.. yet. amazingly Li14430 is still working exactly as designed. before I took Li14430 off to EDC Titan, it served daily EDC duties. very reliable!!!

by the way.... OT, just remembered I owe you a few Chestnuts. apologies for not sending them yet. that chestnut tree got hit by ice storm. been doing wood clearing duties, most every day for the last several weeks. power out for two week, phone/internet down for 3 weeks...

what a sorry excuse for dropping the ball :green:


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## nitrox1 (Jan 18, 2008)

ShortArc said:


> Just talked to SF and a batch of repaired Titans "should" be shipping out this week (via UPS)!
> Regards,
> Willem.



Fingers crossed! I'm starting to get antsy.


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## ShortArc (Jan 19, 2008)

Called again last night to confirm shipment, no such luck. 
If a batch shipped mine was not among them. 
This time I asked customer service to email who ever is in charge of repairs to get an estimated time of completion. I am suppose to hear back withing 3 business days. We shall see...
Willem.


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## nitrox1 (Jan 24, 2008)

Here's the latest update I got. I had my dealer, who is an outstanding guy and cpf supporter, contact surefire and see if he could get something more solid than "next week".

Here is their reply to him, which was forwarded to me.

<<<<
Currently they are developing a new way to build the titans, in addition it was agreed that we would implement the new manufacturing method on the repairs that we have. At the moment we are waiting for the process and the parts needed to be ready. I heard by the end of this week, but no guarantees.
>>>>>

No drama or pot stirring, just trying to share info with my fellow forumites who are waiting like me.

Respectfully posted,
John...


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 24, 2008)

nitrox1 said:


> Here's the latest update I got. I had my dealer, who is an outstanding guy and cpf supporter, contact surefire and see if he could get something more solid than "next week".
> 
> Here is their reply to him, which was forwarded to me.
> 
> ...



Interesting. Why would they look for a new way to "build" them if they weren't going forward to release a non-Ti version. Let the rumors begin.


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## tvodrd (Jan 24, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> Interesting. Why would they look for a new way to "build" them if they weren't going forward to release a non-Ti version. Let the rumors begin.



  With a little luck, pk will spill the beans in 9 days at SHOT.

Larry


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## tvodrd (Jan 25, 2008)

Had an email from a friend waiting today who has one in for repair. A snip:

"This time I insisted the customer service rep to call the appropriate dept
rather than send another unanswered email!
He did and 5min later got back on the phone explaining that it would be at
least another 2 weeks but they are "building in a lot of new advancements"."

 

Larry


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## yaesumofo (Jan 25, 2008)

WE are drifting a bit BUT... I would wager that Surefire will produce a titan derivative this year. Even the way they lebel the units ..as though there was potential for more than one material and color.
Think about it they sold 1000 lights at $500 each. Not all of that was received by SureFire. Lets say 400 each for $400000.00 then look at the material costs...labor....R&D and I suspect that Surefire barely covered their costs on this run of lights.
Now if this were part of a larger project where the R&D build marketing and sales of the Titan was just a small part of a much larger project....As Odd as Surefire is in the way they do business this wouldn't surprise me at all. A Titan in aluminum? (What would they call it?) in different fashion colors and a new high tech manufacturing system..sounds like a good seedbed for a juicy rumor to me.
yaesumofo


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## jch79 (Jan 27, 2008)

ShortArc said:


> Just talked to SF and a batch of repaired Titans "should" be shipping out this week (via UPS)!



:thinking: Color me skeptical! :green: My Titan has been at SF for *2.5 months*, and still nothing. After phone calls, I get "We can't say how long it will be. Try back in a couple of weeks."  :shrug:

john


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## MorpheusT1 (Jan 27, 2008)

I miss my Titan,

They better be building lots of nice stuff into it.
Atleast a better lanyard attachment.


When i think of it,this is kindof like waiting for a Nice Custom light to get done.


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## Phredd (Jan 28, 2008)

MorpheusT1 said:


> They better be building lots of nice stuff into it.
> Atleast a better lanyard attachment.



Are you expecting this to be an upgrade to the Titan v.1.1? hehe


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## MorpheusT1 (Jan 28, 2008)

tvodrd said:


> Had an email from a friend waiting today who has one in for repair. A snip:
> 
> "This time I insisted the customer service rep to call the appropriate dept
> rather than send another unanswered email!
> ...




Yep 


The TITAN Returns or Return of the TITAN if you will...


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## Phredd (Jan 28, 2008)

MorpheusT1 said:


> Yep
> 
> 
> The TITAN Returns or Return of thew TITAN if you will...



Sounds cool. You'll have to give us a review of the improvements. And photos of it taken apart!


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## MorpheusT1 (Jan 28, 2008)

Sure :laughing:

If i ever get it back.
But dang if i will take it apart.


:nana:


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## nitrox1 (Feb 1, 2008)

Any new info? SF won't answer my emails anymore. Two more weeks has come and gone a few times. I'm at 2 and a half months now.
How about a discount coupon or something.


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## jch79 (Feb 1, 2008)

I was told this morning that my repaired Titan (sent to SF in early November), will be shipped out next week. :shrug: :candle:

 john


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## nitrox1 (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks John, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Hate to be a skeptic, but we've heard this before. ;-)
John


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## yaesumofo (Feb 3, 2008)

OK so things are beginning to make sense now.
Surefire will be bringing a TITAN T1A the aluminum version to market.
So the work they have been putting into the "new" manufacturing process is designed for the new aluminum version.
I am sure they are interested in streamlining the build. since the first 1000 were "hand made" I doubt the aluminum version will have as much hands on.

I have been holding onto my titan complete with it's repeatable semi random flicker which I really don't like. I figure I will wait until they have a stable rev 3 version of the guts and then I will ask to have it fixed.
I really like the tint and don't want to give that up for a little flicker.
The Titan is a very cool light and as predicted there will be an aluminum version. I knew that the owners of Surefire were not going to spend all that dough on developing a light only to make 1000 of them. I would guess that surefire didn't make much if anything on those 1000 titans. that is only 500000. And surefire did not get all of that. even if they did I have a feeling that it takes more than 500000 for surefire to design and manufacture a new flashlight. I am looking forward to an aluminum titan. I am sure they will be less expensive and will make a good beater flashlight.
Yaesumofo


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## jch79 (Feb 11, 2008)

Just got off the phone with SF, who called me back from last week, regarding the status of the Titan I have in for repair (since November 2007), as well as the one I've had on order direct from SF (since January 2007). The CSR said the engineer who's in charge of the design and building of the Titan has put a hold on shipping any of them out, while they work on what the problems are.

So, essentially, we do what we do best: wait!  :shrug: 

:thumbsup: john


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## this_is_nascar (Feb 11, 2008)

jch79 said:


> Just got off the phone with SF, who called me back from last week, regarding the status of the Titan I have in for repair (since November 2007), as well as the one I've had on order direct from SF (since January 2007). The CSR said the engineer who's in charge of the design and building of the Titan has put a hold on shipping any of them out, while they work on what the problems are.
> 
> So, essentially, we do what we do best: wait!  :shrug:
> 
> :thumbsup: john



This is disturbing for those of us who have Titans. Does this mean that troubles down the road are inevitable?


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## yaesumofo (Feb 11, 2008)

Who are you expecting an answer from on this question?
Surefire's are generally reliable. 
The company stands behind their product.
Clearly they are working on the technology used in the light in order to make it work on a mass scale.
The Titan (at least mine) was/is not a perfect light as IMHO it should be for the high price. That said.
Mine failed from a single drop from 5 foot onto a hard surface.
When it came back from repair where they replaced the while guts of the light still suffers from a flicker when adjusting the level of the light from the highest. the flicker always happens at the sale place in the adjustment.
I don't like it. I have held back from sending it back because I would rather have the light in this current state than send it to SF for a long repair wait. If I am going to have to wait I would rather keep hold of it and use it until they have figured out how to make them. Then I will send mine in for RE-REPAIR.
Just because a small number of people have had issues does not mean that you will.
Surefire is still in the manufacturing phase of the titan. They are still refining the process.
I suspect lights made late in the run might be a little different (internally) than the earlier units.
Anyway TIN your question?
Who the hell knows.

Yaesumofo



this_is_nascar said:


> This is disturbing for those of us who have Titans. Does this mean that troubles down the road are inevitable?


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## this_is_nascar (Feb 11, 2008)

I wasn't really expecting an answer from anyone hear, since none of us would know for sure. I was more thinking out loud.


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## nitrox1 (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks John for the update. I got a similar reply with no mention of an eta. Like you, mines been gone since November. 

Yaesumofo, smart idea holding onto yours until they get this figured out, then send it in for re-repair.

It's been gone so long I kinda forget what it looks like so it'll be kinda like getting a new light when it finally shows up.  (silver lining, cup half full thinking)

John...


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## jch79 (Feb 11, 2008)

nitrox1 said:


> Yaesumofo, smart idea holding onto yours until they get this figured out, then send it in for re-repair.



Although if everyone did that, they wouldn't have known all the problems and issues that the Titans had! :shrug: :laughing:

john


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## ShortArc (Feb 21, 2008)

Just called SF again. They were suppose to get back to me last week but did not. I am told they are still waiting for parts. ETA unknown.
Willem.


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## nitrox1 (Feb 27, 2008)

jch79 said:


> Although if everyone did that, they wouldn't have known all the problems and issues that the Titans had! :shrug: :laughing:
> 
> john



True that. But now that the issues have been discovered, he's not without his light for 3 months now like the rest of us. Had I had any idea my light would sit in a bin at Surefire "waiting for parts" for 3 months, I'd of lived with the malfunctioning light until such time that SF could turn around a repair in short order. This wait is actually starting to get somewhat comical. I can get my Leica serviced in Germany in less than 3 months (not much less), but less.

That they don't keep us posted on the progress of the fix is also a bit irritating. 2 more weeks doesn't cut it anymore.

John


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## jch79 (Mar 5, 2008)

Well... I finally got my Titan back. Sent to SF in November 2007, with issues being: light flickered a lot, really gritty twisty action.

Report - light is flicker-free, and as smooth as butter. The difference from before is a HUGE improvement.

*HOWEVER (uh-oh)....*

Upon receiving it, I examined the light, and the first thing that caught my eye was a NICK in the friggin' LIGHT! :ironic:

Here's a picture:






I'm assuming it happened when they opened it - :sick2: :thumbsdow Come on! The photo is actually generous to the severity of the nick - it was hard to photograph, but you should get the idea.

This is a limited edition high-end titanium light that IMHO shouldn't come with a nick on it! :shrug:

I'm thinkin' of sending this photo to SF and saying - "not acceptable!"... What are everyone's thoughts - should I send it back? I don't want a marred light that I paid a  of money for!

:sigh: john


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## FrogmanM (Mar 5, 2008)

While that is a major bummer for you, I'd be stoked that the overall operation of the light has improved. It all depends on whether you're fine with a nick on your titanium torch. When I got my first(and most likely last) Ti McGizmo, I was assuming that there would be machining marks, but I have yet to find any! (then I ended up dropping it on some tile flooring) I will agree though that *I* want to give my torches "character marks" and not someone that is trying to fix my light. Being that this is a limited run, idk what the SF Reps will say if you email them the pic.

Mayo


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## ttran97 (Mar 5, 2008)

If this were a $100 light, I'd say forget about the nick. But for $500 retail, that's unacceptable. Period. Thumbs down. Sad face. Boo.


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## cy (Mar 5, 2008)

totally sympathize .... nicks in a $500 light sucks! 

I've got several tiny nicks/stratches from two falls. one time hitting concrete. fault of the unsecure lanyard attachment on titan. 



jch79 said:


> Upon receiving it, I examined the light, and the first thing that caught my eye was a NICK in the friggin' LIGHT! :ironic:


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## jch79 (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks guys. I'm calling SF today - while I do use my lights, *I* like to be the one to put nicks in it!

I'll let y'all know what happens. :thumbsup:

john


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## Size15's (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm interested to know what happens.

Whilst I understand that you want to be the one who gives your flashlights character - I'm also thinking that the nick isn't even something I'd notice on my Titan having carried and used it on my keys since I got it.
Makes me wonder that if the flashlight isn't going to be used and if such a nick is such a big deal why send it in to be repaired when it could sit in its box?
Also I recognise that in order to repair it - it needs to be taken apart, messed with and reassembled - not easy. Whilst this may not be sufficient excuse or explanation there is something to be said for enjoying the use of the flashlight. I've found that the Titan and it's UI benefit from being used and the beam is beautify and I really enjoy seeing by it. I'd hope that such a nick isn't able to ruin my enjoyment of my Titan. Each person is different though.

I believe that people do place higher expectations on higher value products - especially when they are marketed as 'luxury'. This is SureFire's first and most serious venture into 'luxury' and I can see they have not had an easy experience so far - certainly their customers haven't and this is another example.
Perhaps this will teach SureFire a lesson? Perhaps they will not attempt this sort of thing again? Perhaps they will learn and be able to raise their game for future ventures? 

I see the bottom line is that you've paid for a product and have certain expectations. Regardless of whether SureFire or any third-party consider them to be legitimate expectations you should speak to SureFire about them to ensure they are able to respond - hopefully in a way that ensures you are satisfied with your purchase.
If satisfaction can not be achieved then both SureFire and you have to suffer and live with the consequences.

Al


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## Kiessling (Mar 5, 2008)

John ... difficult question IMHO. If it is to be used ... I'd ignore the nick and focus on the operation. If it will be a collectible ... I'd try to contact them.

I have learned to realise that while we often expect perfection, we rarely ever get it. It is usually best to pick the "battles" carefully in order to maintain a somewhat "balanced" life without letting "little things" get in the way. 

bernie


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## Size15's (Mar 5, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> John ... difficult question IMHO. If it is to be used ... I'd ignore the nick and focus on the operation. If it will be a collectible ... I'd try to contact them.


Damn it! A German said it better in a few words than I did in several paragraphs!


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## ttran97 (Mar 5, 2008)

I love Surefire as much as Size15s & Bernie or any other Surefire fan. I have every confidence that Surefire's customer service will take care of this matter.

I do agree with you guys that you don't always get what you want and not everything is perfect. But we're not talking about the 6P or any other mass-produced Surefire. Heck, if I bought a brand new in package 6P, and after opening it up and I saw a knick on the head, I'd be annoyed too...let alone the Titan! In some ways, jch79's situation is even worse because apparently it was in excellent physical condition before it was sent in for repairs! 

But of course, there's no reason for angry letters or calls to SF Customer Service. Just a calm letter with pictures might be enough. It's like the saying goes, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". Plus, he's got nothing to lose by asking, right?


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## jch79 (Mar 5, 2008)

Al/Bernie-

Let's say something else went wrong with the light - if I sent it into SF to get repaired, and they saw a nick in the area where you disassemble the light - would they consider it tampered with, and not do warranty repairs?

And, to be honest, this light has left a bad taste in my mouth - I'll probably end up selling it (don't believe in shelf queens) - does the nick affect its resale value, considering it hasn't been carried or used?

These aren't little things IMHO.

I sent the pic to SF BTW, and will get a call tomorrow. :shrug:

john


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## Kiessling (Mar 5, 2008)

He has a lot to lose ... the most important thing ... his time and energy. Which is why I think the pursuit of perpetual perfection leads to defeat. 

However, this is way off-topic and won't help poor John that much, I admit 

Al ... :kiss: ... 

bernie


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## cy (Mar 5, 2008)

due to lack of trust in Titan's lanyard attachment system. 

sadly Titan sits in my drawer.... really miss having it on my person.


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## Kiessling (Mar 5, 2008)

If you plan to sell it, exploring all options to restore pristine condition might earn you $$. Would be wise IMHO.
A mint and fixed TITAN could bring you big $$$$$, maybe. Then again, I have no clue about prices.
bernie


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## Size15's (Mar 5, 2008)

cy said:


> due to lack of trust in Titan's lanyard attachment system.
> 
> sadly Titan sits in my drawer.... really miss having it on my person.


I thought this was resolved? The internals needed tightening, perhaps with a drop of thread-lock?


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## cy (Mar 5, 2008)

guess I could polish out most of the blemishes from the concrete kiss. 

but then I'd have a mirror polished Titan... I suppose some folks would like that. probably would have no problems selling. 

anyways... a few tiny blemishes don't bother me. lack of function does..

it's unacceptable not to be able to use a $500 flashlight, because it's came off the lanyard twice.


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## jch79 (Mar 5, 2008)

Bernie, I wouldn't sell it for anything more than MSRP - I wouldn't be in it for the money. But the principle is that I bought a new light that has since been damaged (albeit only cosmetic) by the manufacturer. And the position of the nick makes it look like the light was tampered with IMHO - and I would NEVER open this light up!

As for my pursuit of perfection, and wasting my time and energy - calling and writing an email to SF takes but a couple of minutes, and if I send a package, that's no big deal either.  I have enough lights to keep me company in the meantime. :nana: I'm not looking for perfection either - just an answer to why there's a nick in my light, and what they can do about it.

I don't think it will lead to defeat - I'm dealing with SureFire's *world class* customer service, who have ALWAYS been good to me in the past. :thumbsup: 

john


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## Kiessling (Mar 5, 2008)

I meant a philosophical approach that has a broader range than this issue at hand 

If you sell it at MSRP ... don't bother sending it back. It is a fully functional unit and will be sold in minutes I guess.

bernie


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## cy (Mar 5, 2008)

nope.. still not resolved. not possible to fix Surefire's lanyard system without switching to entirely different method of attachment. 

really don't want to drill into Titan's tailcap. so only viable option is to purchase a titanium stud. drill a hole for a lanyard clip, then locktite into existing titan tailcap. 

too many other projects... so Titan has been sitting in my drawer. 
besides I shouldn't have to engineer a fix for a $500 flashlight. 



Size15's said:


> I thought this was resolved? The internals needed tightening, perhaps with a drop of thread-lock?


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## ttran97 (Mar 5, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> I meant a philosophical approach that has a broader range than this issue at hand



But aren't we supposed to always pursue perfection and excellence? Not just in flashlights, but in life as well. Otherwise, we would just be content with things and not improve on ourselves and not grow. 

Not trying to be argumentative...so please don't take things the wrong way. I know you're a good guy because my friend told me about how you introduced him to the wonderful world of Surefires. (Can I get an L1, too? :naughty: ...haha...just kidding!) :thumbsup:


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## Kiessling (Mar 5, 2008)

Don't worry, I appreciate differing opinions. They are opportunities to learn. 

But I tend to think that topic is too far off to be in this thread if further discussed, so I think we should stop our discussion about it before it even begins. 


bernie


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## Size15's (Mar 5, 2008)

cy said:


> nope.. still not resolved. not possible to fix Surefire's lanyard system without switching to entirely different method of attachment.


I don't believe I can agree that SureFire's Titan lanyard system needs fixing. How many cases are there like yours?

Al


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## cy (Mar 5, 2008)

no clue... how many other cases like mine. all I know is mine fell off twice. hitting the concrete once. putting nicks both times. 

yes I've call SF customer service. they basically scratched their heads and didn't know how to handle this. naturally they would gladly look at my titan. but with titan cue several months long. didn't bother to send in. 

yes I do realize not everyone is ruff on lights as I am. titan fell off during working on my cummins diesel truck. I normally EDC Titan on a neck lanyard which almost never comes off. 

I was wrestling a power steering pump on a creeper. when Titan fell off. what happen was titan clip aligned up just right and fell off. titan rolled out of my clothes when I got off the creeper. 

other time titan fell off after wrestling around some HUGE oak logs, 3ft+ in diameter. I had just finished backing my trailer up and was unhooking to unload logs. when Titan fell out and kissed the concrete. 

was lucky to see Titan drop, could have easily lost my new $500 tool.

now if someone is lounging around in an office. don't think titan would come off lanyard. but let's say someone is wearing a Titan caving as a backup light. titan could easily align up in correct position and fall off. 



Size15's said:


> I don't believe I can agree that SureFire's Titan lanyard system needs fixing. How many cases are there like yours?
> 
> Al


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## Size15's (Mar 5, 2008)

cy said:


> ...titan could easily align up in correct position and fall off.


There is far too much friction on the Titan's I've handled for the clip to slide off without specific deliberate user action. I guess I've handled about half a dozen though so that's hardly representative.


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## cy (Mar 5, 2008)

mine started off really tight, but loosen quickly. but don't think tightness or lack of is an issue. 

with no side pressure against lanyard attachment, titan will not easily fall off. but if exposed to side pressure via strenuous exercise like caving, logging, working under a truck, etc. 

titan lanyard attachment by design rotates easily. to remove one must align up one of four slots. under strenuous exercise... sooner or later, one of those four slots will align. combined with heavy side pressure will result in release. 

to me ... a Titan is a tool first! attachment like light switch must be dead reliable. 



Size15's said:


> There is far too much friction on the Titan's I've handled for the clip to slide off without specific deliberate user action. I guess I've handled about half a dozen though so that's hardly representative.


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## Phredd (Mar 5, 2008)

jch79 said:


> Thanks guys. I'm calling SF today - while I do use my lights, *I* like to be the one to put nicks in it!



I sent mine in and it came back with a scratch. I polished it and it looked much nicer than new. I don't know if you'd have the same luck with a nick, though.



Size15's said:


> Perhaps this will teach SureFire a lesson? Perhaps they will not attempt this sort of thing again? Perhaps they will learn and be able to raise their game for future ventures?



I think this was all a test for the T1A. I think they're probably learning a lot and they won't start the T1A until they've finished learning. If they sell tens of thousands of the T1A, presumably at a much lower cost, they won't be able to afford the attention they're giving to returns of the T1.


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## cv3po (Mar 6, 2008)

jch79 said:


> Well... I finally got my Titan back. Sent to SF in November 2007, with issues being: light flickered a lot, really gritty twisty action.
> 
> Report - light is flicker-free, and as smooth as butter. The difference from before is a HUGE improvement.
> Upon receiving it, I examined the light, and the first thing that caught my eye was a NICK in the friggin' LIGHT! :ironic:
> a nick on it! :shrug:I'm thinkin' of sending this photo to SF and saying - "not acceptable!"... What are everyone's thoughts - should I send it back? I don't want a marred light that I paid a  of money for!:sigh: john


 

This is why I don't "collect" flashlights. I try to keep up on new stuff but only so I have the best tool I can with me when I need it. That collecting thing looks really stressful. John, if I were you and you're happy with the performance after repairs I'd leave it alone. I'd love to see a pic actual size because at that magnification the nick STILL looks small. Give SF a break, they are still just really smart apes using tools.........titans are hand assembled and repaired. Just my 2c


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## nitrox1 (Mar 7, 2008)

Mine showed up today. !00% perfect so far. No flicker, no other funky stuff. 

The bezel turns smooth. It's been so long though that I don't remember what mine turned like originally. There is no junk or dust on the glass or bezel, and the LED looks centered. Color temp is pretty white. Not as white as my Ti PD-S, but pretty white.

Happy to finally have a working Titan back home. Thanks Surefire for getting these fixed. To those of you with titans at Surefire, hopefully yours will be arriving shortly.


John


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## AvidHiker (Mar 7, 2008)

Just received mine from the final shipment (I think?) of new lights (which I assume was put on hold until these assorted issues were resolved... or at least addressed).

I can see some light scratches here and there on the body, but nothing that really bothers me (no shelf queen plans for this Titan). A collector would almost certainly feel differently though, and I'm a little suprised to see this on something that is obviously collectable. I very much like the tow-tone effect on mine, with the center piece (engraved part) being lighter in color compared with the rest of the light. The quick release is EXTREMELY stiff and actually only seems to come on or off in one or two positions (of 4 that should be possible). I suppose this might change after some break in, but as of now it will jam completely in any other position. Unless it dramatically loosens up, I'm am quite confident that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for _this_ light to come off accidentally - I don't care what activity you're engaged in. Grittyness is minimal, but present - getting better as I work it on and off. One odd occurance so far - I got full brightness suddenly after ramping down to turn it off. A simple full on-off cycle corrected this and it hasn't happened since (think I have read of others observing this behavior as well). Otherwise, no flickering at all just smooth variability. Tint looked nearly perfect white last night, probably the best I've seen, however, today in my car it appeared decidedly blueish (common for all my lights - sometimes I notice the tint, other times I don't, guess it depends on ambient lighting). I LOVE the beam pattern, IMO it is truly perfect for an EDC. Nice, WIDE spill with significant hotspot. Comparing it to my Fenix L1T, I'd guess the beam covers at least a 50% larger area (perfect for walking at night or searching the ground for something you dropped). Ok, sorry, this is turning into more of a review - just got a little carried away.

My biggest complaint would have to be the poorly centered emitter - clearly off, about as off as it could be I suppose (looks to be nearly right up against the reflector) and a few bits of debris on the reflector as well (hopefully not bits of the dome!). Again, I don't think this will really bother me in the long run, but it does a little right now. I doubt that it has any appreciable effect on the performance, although I may be wrong there as I do understand how reflectors work. Anyway, I also understand that Surefire never promised a flawless, "mint" condition for these lights, but my feeling is that if Surefire offers such limited edition, high price items in the future, they may want to reconsider their quallity control. Don't get me wrong, I'm still very happy to have one because, for me, anything constructed from titanium is worth collecting (and using!).


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## 4sevens (Mar 11, 2008)

My titan just arrived from opticshq (excellent service btw) and it doesn't
flicker at all... it's DOA!!!
The battery that it came with is fine at 3.3v. But when I turn it on, it
doesn't light and the whole light gets scortching hot! When I pulled the
battery it burned me and left a blister on my palm!!!!! 

I contacted opticshq and they said since it's a limited production item
they can only send it back to SF. While this is understandable, it's
not acceptable. I know opticshq can't do anything else besides offer me
a refund.

I called SF and they are having me send it in. I expressed my disappointment
of waiting 6 months only to get a DOA light that actually burned me.
This is unacceptable for a light at this price range. What if it blew up???
They said sometimes this happens and then will repair it for me. 
Quoted time is 2-3 weeks. I'm so sad


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## ShortArc (Mar 11, 2008)

Just received my titan back via UPS Ground after a long repair period (me and everyone else). I have to admit that I am rather disappointed, as the light shows four or five scratches/marks along the main body. Almost looks like tool marks from a fixture or something. I called SF on it and am anticipating a call back. Don't think much can be done at this point but I don't think this should just be the norm!


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## Warhead (Mar 11, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> Excellent point. I hadn't considered that.



My God CPF is contaminated.


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## Hans (Mar 11, 2008)

4sevens said:


> My titan just arrived from opticshq (excellent service btw) and it doesn't flicker at all... it's DOA!!!
> The battery that it came with is fine at 3.3v. But when I turn it on, it
> doesn't light and the whole light gets scortching hot! When I pulled the
> battery it burned me and left a blister on my palm!!!!!



That's amazing. That sort of thing shouldn't happen at all, and most certainly not with a light in that price range.

Hans


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## Size15's (Mar 11, 2008)

I feel it's important that SureFire are able to get all this Titan feedback from Titan customers to the extent that I think that dissatisfied Titan customers should call SureFire and ask to speak to a supervisor/manager.

The strength of feeling in this thread is significant and it would be a shame to waste it when it could be used to help SureFire learn what appear to be some tough lessons when it comes to their Titan.

Al


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## jch79 (Mar 11, 2008)

FWIW, I forwarded the photo of my nicked Titan to SF, and have called 3 times since, and the CSR still hasn't heard back from his manager, who he forwarded this photo from. :shrug: So, I'm still waiting to hear back. :candle:
john


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## ShortArc (Mar 11, 2008)

Oh boy this will be fun. With regards to returning phone calls SF has had a very poor track record with me. I indicated to the tech today that I will be traveling to Europe end of the week and I would like to hear back prior no matter what. We shall see. Also my Titan looks ALOT WORSE than yours believe me! I did take pictures of it prior to shipping so that there would no dispute in the event of damage.
Regards.



jch79 said:


> FWIW, I forwarded the photo of my nicked Titan to SF, and have called 3 times since, and the CSR still hasn't heard back from his manager, who he forwarded this photo from. :shrug: So, I'm still waiting to hear back. :candle:
> john


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## ShortArc (Mar 12, 2008)

Well, I did not hear back from SF yesterday, as was promised. So today I sent them an email, requesting that it be forwarded to the appropriate person. I include links to detailed before and after pictures. Frankly I do not have the time to keep after these guys. Will keep everyone posted of the outcome.
Cheers,
Willem.


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## yaesumofo (Mar 13, 2008)

Having a defective or broken unit is one thing.
Poor customer service is another.
Having what amounts to a special edition not quite one of a kind but close flashlights come back with more physical damage than it had when it went in for repair is another story.

I would call them and keep on Surefire. 
I suspect they don't warranty the physical condition of a light sent for repair. they reserve the right to repair or REPLACE any item sent for repair.
IMO it is not fair to send back a light which had been dinged and banged around while in their hands.

Excess amounts of time are unacceptable as well.

Most of you know that MY TITAN brake with one single 5 foot fall onto a floor from my neck. There was NO visible damage but the light no longer functioned correctly. I sent it to Surefire for repair (I had only had it for a few days and was unsure if I was even going to keep it since the action was so lousy). Anyway I received the light after a month of repair and it worked fine except for a flicker when changing the level from HIGH to low.
It always happened at the same place in the action always flickering. I lubed the light and continued to work with it instead of sending it back to Surefire due to the length of repair time and doubt in my mind that it might come back worse than when I sent it. I kept it and used it. Guess what the flicker went away all by itself. MY TITAN is now operationally PERFECT. 

There is no doubt in my mind that the TITAN is a special flashlight.
Mine cost me $500.00 it better be.
The fact that there were 999 other titan buyers shouldn't be lost on Surefire. This project was a special Surefire project. If a person has a problem with a TITAN that issue should be handled with care and the light should be on a special repair track separate from surefire's $45.00 6P.

I am amazed that anybody is receiving TITANS which have received POOR QUALITY QC. A unit which Fails on delivery? IMHO This is an issue which Surefire needs to take a close look at BEFORE producing a second "TITAN LIKE" product.
Lets face it the next TITAN is NOT a titan. for one thing it isn't titanium. BUT I am sure it shares technology..maybe. Maybe Surefire will have taken a close look at the analog control device used in the TITAN and thought better of it. Nothing would surprise me.

I will say this . COME ON SUREFIRE take care of the average ordinary TITAN owner because for sure they are NOT your average everyday customer!!
Yaesumofo


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## 4sevens (Mar 13, 2008)

I sent my brand new titan in today. 

I was only able to play around with the twist action. My emitter was slightly
off centered. When I twist the head the emitter will actually move and bit
and center itself. Strange. Actually, a gentle tug at the head will move the
emitter too (due to the slack between the head and body). Anyone notice
this?


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## Kilovolt (Mar 13, 2008)

4sevens said:


> My emitter was slightly off centered. When I twist the head the emitter will actually move and bit and center itself. Strange. Actually, a gentle tug at the head will move the emitter too (due to the slack between the head and body). Anyone notice this?


 
No, mine does not do that.


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## souptree (Mar 13, 2008)

My guess is that for the average Titan owner their Titan does NOT constitute the majority of their investment in SF lights. Further that the warranty and reputation of DELIVERED customer service are part of the reason most of those buyers are regular SF customers. This thread is very disturbing, to say the least, and I would think it should be more disturbing to SF than for us.

FWIW, I have been sitting on my Titan as I wanted to see if a thread quite like this developed before I put a $500 problem child on my keys. I still haven't decided whether to keep and use my Titan or sell it and move on, but I am leaning towards the latter. If I do use it, I expect it to stay attached to my keys. Further, and much more importantly, KEYS GET DROPPED! In fact -- keys get TOSSED! What is the use of a keychain light that can't handle a few foot drop or that will disconnect if shaken the wrong way? Delicate isn't a feature I've come to associate with my SF lights. Frankly, I am a little scared to use it. If I DO use it, I will USE it, and I don't want it if it can't take that. Isn't it made for USE?

I have taken my Titan out 2 or 3 times and played with it and showed it off to a few people. I am SURPRISED to find that I am LUCKY to have a light that has nice fit and finish and appears to not blink or do other nasty things that are at the least barely acceptable in a light at this price.

Admittedly these dire reports are anecdotes. But the sample size represented in this thread alone is pretty high. Most of these reports are from before opticsHQ was halfway through fulfilling orders -- orders that were only recently completely fulfilled. Of the 1000 Titans that are out there some aren't even out of their shrink wrap yet and a lot more are just sitting in their boxes or on a shelf. 1 is on PK's keys -- I bet that one is flawless. Multiple people here reporting problems out of such a small number of lights THAT ARE IN ACTUAL USE is pretty disturbing to me.

Someone talk me into using (and dropping) my Titan! :shrug:


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## AvidHiker (Mar 13, 2008)

4sevens said:


> I sent my brand new titan in today.
> 
> I was only able to play around with the twist action. My emitter was slightly
> off centered. When I twist the head the emitter will actually move and bit
> ...


 
Mine is the same, there is a little play between the 2 pieces I assume due to the o-rings that are in there (see 'Titan Disassembled' thread if you haven't already). I can center the emitter when the light is off, but as soon as I begin to rotate it moves until it hits the edge of the reflector (or so it seems). Annoying, but the light is plenty bright and beam still flawless.


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## AvidHiker (Mar 13, 2008)

souptree said:


> My guess is that for the average Titan owner their Titan does NOT constitute the majority of their investment in SF lights. Further that the warranty and reputation of DELIVERED customer service are part of the reason most of those buyers are regular SF customers. This thread is very disturbing, to say the least, and I would think it should be more disturbing to SF than for us.
> 
> FWIW, I have been sitting on my Titan as I wanted to see if a thread quite like this developed before I put a $500 problem child on my keys. I still haven't decided whether to keep and use my Titan or sell it and move on, but I am leaning towards the latter. If I do use it, I expect it to stay attached to my keys. Further, and much more importantly, KEYS GET DROPPED! In fact -- keys get TOSSED! What is the use of a keychain light that can't handle a few foot drop or that will disconnect if shaken the wrong way? Delicate isn't a feature I've come to associate with my SF lights. Frankly, I am a little scared to use it. If I DO use it, I will USE it, and I don't want it if it can't take that. Isn't it made for USE?
> 
> ...


 
One of the first things I did was drop mine several times from about 6 feet onto a hard rubber mat. No effect. I haven't counted, but were there more than 1 or 2 posts about dropped lights failing? That's still a fraction of a percent of the lights out there, so I don't see any cause for alarm. Personally, I won't let this thread keep me from using my light, if it breaks then so be it - it will get fixed (eventually). For me, I was totally hooked from the moment I turned it on, so theres no turning back now.


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## Mark A. (Mar 13, 2008)

I also get the same malfunction as noted in post 160: I will get full brightness suddenly after ramping down to turn it off. This occurs perhaps once in every 15 uses.

It can also be erratic if it is not used for a few days.

I will not send it back for this, fearing the kitchen-mechanic type damage being reported in this thread. I am stunned at the poor workmanship of these repairs.

Mark A.


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## tvodrd (Mar 13, 2008)

I guess I just got lucky. I had an issue early in the thread, but it hasn't "flashed" on turn-on for well over a month. It has also smoothed out nicely. I've EDC'd the thing since I got it in the first round from Optics HQ and have dropped it 4-5 times and kicked it across the room a couple from trying to break its fall with my shoe. :green:

Like I said, "lucky." Two good friends have had to return them. Nice thing is at least you can, and for the rest of your life! I think this was an experiment on SF's part from both technology and marketing standpoints. I also suspect the latter forced its release somewhat prematurely.

Larry


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## cy (Mar 14, 2008)

here's my crude fix for Titan's un-reliable lanyard attachment. 

it's not pretty but is very_solid! 
Titan is around my neck, being EDC again.


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## MorpheusT1 (Mar 14, 2008)

Got mine back the other day,
Its been in for repair since November.


The light is now Smooth as a baby butt and no flickering at all.
Well worth it to send it in imho.


The lanyard attachment is a bit tighter,but i dont want to trust it,so im looking for a similar solution as yours CY.

So if someone can point me in the right direction to get a threaded bolt that will fit with a hole in the end that would be great.
Some locktite should keep that puppy in there.



Benny


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## cy (Mar 14, 2008)

mine was made from surplus aircraft hardware. had to turn it down, then thread. die couldn't cut threads flush, so bolt wouldn't completely seat. close enough, until Surefire comes out with an official fix. 

no locktite needed... clamped tailcap in a collet, then torqued down bolt (requires 8mm 12pt box end). loads of masking tape protected finish. that bolt is not coming out, unless I reverse process to remove.


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## Lunal_Tic (Mar 18, 2008)

I posted back on 11/21/07 in another thread about some problems I had with my Titan. (one of the photos below)

The Titan was shipped to Surefire USPS Express Mail on 12/20/07. I had received an email giving me an RMA number so sent it in as soon as I could. At that time they stated "We are expecting those parts to be available in 1-2 weeks. So you should have a fairly short turn around time." I called around the 13th of January to find out the status of the light and was told that it was ready and would be shipped out that day. 

A week later I called back and was told that there was no record of my call and that the original replacement parts were bad and to call back the following week to get an update. I told him that I was leaving the country on the 31st and needed to get the light back before I left since I wouldn't be returning for a long while. Another week later I called back again and was told that the service rep didn't know the status of the light and would get in touch with the technician and have them contact me via email to let me know when to expect the light. That was the last week of January. I replied to the original sender of the RMA email to ask where the light was again on 2/13 and never received an answer.

Much as I wanted to avoid it, on February 19 I sent an email to PK and asked that he pass along my concerns to whomever could help find my light. He responded on 2/20 that it had been found. On 2/26 I received an email from a Tech Support manager saying it would be shipped UPS Blue label with a box of CR123s as an "we're sorry", on the 27th it arrived in Texas and this morning it arrived here in Japan.

It looks much better than the photo below, is smoother operating, and doesn't appear to have the blink though I will reserve full judgment on it till after using it for a while. I have used and abused a number of Surefires for several years but this is the first time I've had such problems with having one serviced or even having problems like this out of the gate. I'm disappointed in the efforts required to get this far but I'm glad to have my light back.






-LT


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## yaesumofo (Mar 18, 2008)

Wow.
I sent my light in less than a week after receiving it.
The light I received back worked but had a terrible flicker.
insted of sending it right back I held on to it.
The flicker is now gone and the action has smoothed out.
After hearing this story I hope I never have to send my titan back to SureFire. Lets hope they have figured out how to make them and service them perfectly.
Yaesumofo


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## cave dave (Mar 19, 2008)

MorpheusT1 said:


> The lanyard attachment is a bit tighter,but i dont want to trust it,so im looking for a similar solution as yours CY.



How about putting a fat tight O-ring around it? I haven't had a chance to stop by the hardware store to try this out.

I have tried a zip Tie and Shrink wrap. The clear stuff I had worked better than the black stuff (too stretchy) but was harder to photograph. I could still push it out of the black stuff.


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## cy (Mar 20, 2008)

cavedave, would not trust it... just don't go caving with titan tucked inside your shirt on original surefire titan lanyard. 

it would be the pits to lose your titan caving...



cave dave said:


> How about putting a fat tight O-ring around it? I haven't had a chance to stop by the hardware store to try this out.
> 
> I have tried a zip Tie and Shrink wrap. The clear stuff I had worked better than the black stuff (too stretchy) but was harder to photograph. I could still push it out of the black stuff.


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## yaesumofo (Mar 20, 2008)

Size 15. Maybe you should use your strong connections there to use this opportunity to point out this thread to the people who need to see it.
Another way would be to create a PDF file containing the messages, and then send that PDF file again to those who count.
I fear one thing they will not see are any thanks for the clearly hard work done to design and manufacture the very special TITAN even if a few are flawed. wheel there is almost no such thing as a perfect diamond.
Yaesumofo




Size15's said:


> I feel it's important that Surefire are able to get all this Titan feedback from Titan customers to the extent that I think that dissatisfied Titan customers should call Surefire and ask to speak to a supervisor/manager.
> 
> The strength of feeling in this thread is significant and it would be a shame to waste it when it could be used to help Surefire learn what appear to be some tough lessons when it comes to their Titan.
> 
> Al


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## Size15's (Mar 20, 2008)

I suspect that an internet thread is more easily dismissed compared to the weight and physicality of individually written letters. I also think that what I may be able to achieve does not have the same weight to the right parts of SureFire as a collective number of upset customers.

Al


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## Lunal_Tic (Mar 20, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I suspect that an internet thread is more easily dismissed compared to the weight and physicality of individually written letters. I also think that what I may be able to achieve does not have the same weight to the right parts of SureFire as a collective number of upset customers.
> 
> Al



It took an email to PK to finally get action in my case. I wouldn't think it's his job to be the recipient for a flood of similar letters. Standard communication channels failed outright. 

While you may not have the pull you believe needed here you likely have more avenues available to you. You might very well be able to help direct the missives so that they fall on the proper desk rather than languishing in some inbox.

-LT


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## ShortArc (Mar 28, 2008)

SF issued a call tag, so my Titan is on its way back.
I am suppose to receive a replacement Titan. 
Other than the fact that SF sent the call tag UPS Ground, same way they returned my repaired Titan, the service has been a lot better (response time, call backs, etc.)
Let's see what happens...now for two weeks of waiting...
Willem.

PS. I hope the new one does not flicker.


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## Hodsta (Mar 28, 2008)

SF Titan #0912 signing in with no functional issues. My bezel, head and battery tube are completely different shades, however this is a none issue to me I remain thankful that it just works. 

Could there be a greater PR disaster for SF when a lifelong SF fan is thankful to recieve a light that works?

C- Must try harder SF


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## Christoph (Apr 5, 2008)

I just received #0798 and is has some problems right out of the box.The emitter moves around in the head and the rubber washer in the tail cap is missing. I am going to call Surefire Monday.
This sucks.If this was coming from a different part of the globe I could understand problems like this,from Surefire it is a real disappointment.
C


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## yaesumofo (Apr 5, 2008)

What a huge disappointment this must be.
Was this a sealed box? I find it difficult to comprehend the notion that a TITAN, a light whose production is under scrutiny, (presumably) would leave the factory as an incomplete unit. Is it possible that a returned (broken) unit got mixed up with production units and was sent out into the retail pipeline?

I would expect (read:demand) a NEW replacement unit. To have a one in 1000 light be delivered in incomplete and damaged is completely unacceptable and very disappointing.
One expects more from Surefire especially from a $500.00 limited run.
If not spent on QC than where?
To be completely frank I am disappointed that this thread still lives...with NEW failures.
While I am sure somebody will have some sort of pass the buck explanation please keep us informed as to the progress. 
Yaesumofo 




Christoph said:


> I just received #0798 and is has some problems right out of the box.The emitter moves around in the head and the rubber washer in the tail cap is missing. I am going to call Surefire Monday.
> This sucks.If this was coming from a different part of the globe I could understand problems like this,from Surefire it is a real disappointment.
> C


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## Size15's (Apr 5, 2008)

Christoph said:


> ...the rubber washer in the tail cap is missing.


What rubber washer in the tailcap?
Mine doesn't have one. :green:


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## yaesumofo (Apr 5, 2008)

I assume he is talking about the O-ing between the body and tail.(it isn't much of an o-ring to boot)...My tailcap has nothing rubber either.
Yaesumofo


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## Mark A. (Apr 5, 2008)

There is a separate, flat shaped washer in the tail cap. It is nearly white in color (same color as the round O-ring that seals the I.D. of the cap) and may be made of a silicone material. When the cap is screwed down onto the body, this washer seals against the end of the threads of the Ti body, making it in essence, a double-sealed affair.

There is a hole in this washer, and it fits around a "hub" of material that positions the spring.

I have this washer in my TITAN. Perhaps it is visible in the X-rayed image once posted by PSM in another thread; on my monitor, I can't really see it https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179191&page=2 (post # 58 has the image)


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## yaesumofo (Apr 6, 2008)

My Titan does NOT have anything in the tailcap except for a spring.
Yaesumofo





Mark A. said:


> There is a separate, flat shaped washer in the tail cap. It is nearly white in color (same color as the round O-ring that seals the I.D. of the cap) and may be made of a silicone material. When the cap is screwed down onto the body, this washer seals against the end of the threads of the Ti body, making it ine essence, a double-sealed affair.
> 
> There is a hole in this washer, and it fits around a "hub" of material that positions the spring.
> 
> I have this washer in my TITAN. Perhaps it is visible in the X-rayed image once posted by PSM in another thread (I would have to go back to see); https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/180426


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## Kilovolt (Apr 6, 2008)

Around the spring there is a grey soft rubber gasket that acts as a seal between the tailcap and the body of the light.


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## Size15's (Apr 6, 2008)

I wonder how many Titans have this washer?


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## Lunal_Tic (Apr 6, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> My Titan does NOT have anything in the tailcap except for a spring.
> Yaesumofo



Same here and it recently came back from Surefire service. :shrug:






-LT


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## Mark A. (Apr 6, 2008)

Perhaps this is a revision to the design that provides a benefit. Perhaps it grounds the tailcap better, but you would think that the threads do that very well.

I think the design is better with the gasket, but who knows?


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## cave dave (Apr 6, 2008)

#509 reporting in. 

No gasket on mine.

Mine functions perfectly, very smooth twisty operation.

Led is off center and anodize variations like everybody else.

Christoph, I doubt it is the emitter that moves. It is the emitter that stays in place and the head and reflector moves. Mine does that too and the head part has gotten smoother but wobblier as it breaks in.


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## cy (Apr 6, 2008)

#0113 has always worked flawlessly. has a washer 

surefire's lanyard attachment is unreliable at best... 
really like my solution posted above...

no question my Titan is now secure on it's lanyard.


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## yaesumofo (Apr 6, 2008)

The TITAN is NOT anodized. there is nothing on the surface of the Titanium except fingerprints left by the lights user.
It is bare titanium.
Maybe it is because I don't use the quick disconnect much but I have not found it to be all that flimsy. I don't find it all that easy to connect or disconnect. the alignment needs to be just right in order to do either.
My fear of using a locked bolt is that the entire tail section could become loose and fall away...leaving behind the tail.

Maybe I need to be rougher on my titan in order to discover the weakness in the quick release mount.
Like I said alignment has to be just right in order to release it.

Based on this thread alone and the number of lights which have been received which did not work or meet the end user's expectation I would hope that Surefire is considering very carefully the idea of producing the aluminum version. they may to completely revisit the methods used in manufacturing this light.
Certainly the quality control department needs to be beefed up. There really have been a large number of issues with the titan and the CPF's membership - ownership of the titan represents bit a portion of the total number of lights out there. If we collectively own 20% of the titans...look at how many people have had MAJOR issues including myself.
I certainly hope Surefire gets it together before producing the new titan 'en masse.
What is the deal with the gasket which is NOT present in mine and others and is present in others?
BTW There is an image of the inside of the tail cap and there are some black spots in there what are those?
I have no black spots either.

I will say that if there was a rubber gasket there the likelihood that the tail will loosen and fall from a more rigid connection with an aftermarket non quick release would be somewhat less. 

Yaesumofo



cave Dave said:


> #509 reporting in.
> 
> No gasket on mine.
> 
> ...


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## AvidHiker (Apr 6, 2008)

#0707 has no gasket in the base either, I probably would feel a little more confident in the water tightness with one in there given the relatively loose threads (chosen to prevent galling I guess?), but the single o-ring seems to do fine for a run under the faucet.

Mine is also 2 or maybe even 3 different tones of grey, but the difference is subtle and more noticable under certain lights (like fluorescent especially). I like it like it actually.

Lanyard attachment was super stiff and difficult to operate at first, but after obsessively breaking it in over several days (ended up with a sore spot on my thumb) it works much more easily. Still, I highly doubt that in its current condition mine would come off accidentally. It still needs a stiff combination of sideward and downward force in just the right direction to remove. I can clearly see evidence of wear on the tail cap connector - edges of the "cross" have worn down considerably. I would think that an unusually loose/insecure fit (like some have reported) could be easily remedied by replacing the tailcap and I would hope that Surefire has quite a few extras in stock for repairs - I dorpped mine just the other day from 3-4 feet and it seriously dented the edge of the tail cap flat (where it meets the o-ring). I was able to carefully bend it back (so it was round again and the o-ring could seal properly) with needlenose pliers (used some plastic to prevent scratching), you can barely tell it happened. But, if someone would have stepped on it after I dropped it I have little doubt that it could have been ruined (very thin Ti there!). No biggy, don't take the tail cap off very often anyway - now I know to be more careful.

My head is also slightly loose and emitter off center, but this doesn't seem to affect the light's performance.

I still love this light despite the imperfections.


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## Lunal_Tic (Apr 6, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> What is the deal with the gasket which is NOT present in mine and others and is present in others?
> 
> BTW There is an image of the inside of the tail cap and there are some black spots in there what are those?
> I have no black spots either.
> ...



I was wondering about those too. They are not evenly spaced nor of even size. They appear to be ink maybe but it seems odd if they were used for production marking to be asymmetrical. Also noticed that as mine is, w/o the tailcap gasket, my tailcap completely squishes and hides the GID o-ring that came with the light. Maybe I should throw an o-ring into the inside of the tailcap as a spacer.

-LT

Titan #192


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## Mark A. (Apr 6, 2008)

"The black stuff" are remnants of an adhesive used to secure the thin flat gasket. It bonds to the metal better than to the gasket material so when the gasket is pulled away, there is residue left behind in the tail cap. 

This adhesive tacks down the thin & somewhat slippery gasket material, and keeps it from bunching up when the tail cap is torqued against it.


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## Lunal_Tic (Apr 6, 2008)

Mark A. said:


> "The black stuff" are remnants of an adhesive used to secure the thin flat gasket. It bonds to the metal better than to the gasket material so when the gasket is pulled away, there is residue left behind in the tail cap.
> 
> This adhesive tacks down the thin & somewhat slippery gasket material, and keeps it from bunching up when the tail cap is torqued against it.



Mine never had the gasket even before I sent it in. Do you suppose it's a "let's see if it works" kind of deal where they take it out if they don't like the results? i.e. test fit each light with it.

-LT


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## yaesumofo (Apr 6, 2008)

GITD ring?
Mine is NOT GITD it is clear silicone looking material,maybe is silicone
or some sort of rubber. But NOT GITD

I wonder what would happen if we got together 20 or 30 of us and compared TITANS? Would they all be unique in some way?

Yaesumofo




Lunal_Tic said:


> I was wondering about those too. They are not evenly spaced nor of even size. They appear to be ink maybe but it seems odd if they were used for production marking to be asymmetrical. Also noticed that as mine is, w/o the tailcap gasket, my tailcap completely squishes and hides the GID o-ring that came with the light. Maybe I should throw an o-ring into the inside of the tailcap as a spacer.
> 
> -LT
> 
> Titan #192


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## Lunal_Tic (Apr 6, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> GITD ring?
> Mine is NOT GITD it is clear silicone looking material,maybe is silicone
> or some sort of rubber. But NOT GITD
> 
> ...



I just rechecked, not GID. My goof sorry. However I do have good news to report. Dr. Scholl's to the rescue again.











W/O changing the thickness of the pad and screwing the tail all the way down the o-ring is now visible.

-LT


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## Size15's (Apr 7, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> I wonder what would happen if we got together 20 or 30 of us and compared TITANS? Would they all be unique in some way?


I believe so. They were pretty much hand-made by a few people at SureFire.

Figuring out how to turn them into a production item is the challenge. I think we all agree that we hope SureFire have been learning lessons from their Ti Titans.
I guess we all also agree that its a shame this learning process has been so visible and lengthy for us Titan owners.


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## McGizmo (Apr 7, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> GITD ring?
> Mine is NOT GITD it is clear silicone looking material,maybe is silicone
> or some sort of rubber. But NOT GITD
> 
> ...



I believe the O-rings are urethane which are quite durable and pricey and not so easy to find. I'm not convinced that they make the best possible seal but you will be hard pressed to damage one!


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## faco (Apr 7, 2008)

I got my TITAN about 1 month ago, #0570.

No gasket in the tail cap.

The emitter is perfectly centered and has a nice white tint.

Threads are smooth and I can use the light with one hand to operate the light.

Mine has different shades of titanium/grey which I like, I don't see this as a problem or defect.

The quick connect/disconnect works fine but could have been a better design. I think its very secure and couldn't see it coming apart on its own. I just don't like the fact it rattles and makes the light seem cheap. 

I am a very happy owner


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## Mark A. (Apr 7, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> I believe the O-rings are urethane which are quite durable and pricey and not so easy to find. I'm not convinced that they make the best possible seal but you will be hard pressed to damage one!


 
(I apologize if this is a drift) One source of O-rings for manufacturers is Apple Rubber (www.applerubber.com). They have a myriad of sizes and materials available. They only deal in larger quantities though, and here McMaster-Carr can be useful. Apple's site also has a wealth of technical info that would be of interest to a flashlight owner.


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## Christoph (Apr 7, 2008)

If I hold the head still and manipulate the body the emitter can be seen to move around in the reflector.In addition after being on for 5 min there is no temp change in the head,my other starts heating up within a few min,that tells me something is not making good thermal contact either.
Chris


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## Lunal_Tic (Apr 7, 2008)

Mark A. said:


> (I apologize if this is a drift) One source of O-rings for manufacturers is Apple Rubber (www.applerubber.com). They have a myriad of sizes and materials available. They only deal in larger quantities though, and here McMaster-Carr can be useful. Apple's site also has a wealth of technical info that would be of interest to a flashlight owner.



Thanks for the info. So it's not silicone but polyurethane? Also do you know if it's supposed to be covered by the tailcap or be visible?

TIA,
-LT


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## AvidHiker (Apr 7, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> I believe the O-rings are urethane which are quite durable and pricey and not so easy to find. I'm not convinced that they make the best possible seal but you will be hard pressed to damage one!


 
I have to agree, that's a good possibility.

This is not an o-ring material that I'm familiar with, and I work in laboratory R&D. Interesting - creamy white with a tinge of yellow, more rigid rubbery feel - could very well be some kind of urethane or copolymer thereof.

I was curious what the material might be so I loaded it into our relatively inexpensive (entry level) FTIR (still ran us 20k). Unfortunately, we didn't have a closely matching material in the cheap sample library that came with the instrument, and my company was too poor to buy the real polymer library. There appears to be some urethane-related peaks as well as numerous polyacrylate peaks. Could be some sort of polyurethane-acrylic hybrid, pretty common material these days. Acrylic is added to tailor properties and also happens to reduce the material cost quite a bit.

Anyway, definitely not silicone from what I see in the spectrum.:thinking:


Also, I noticed by adding a little krytox lube that the o-ring would slip under the tailcap much more easily when tightening down. I suspect it would provide the best seal just before it slips under completely although I haven't tested that.


----------



## McGizmo (Apr 7, 2008)

AvidHiker,

I found a source for urethane O-rings a couple years ago and purchased some in sizes appropriate for the Aleph and PD series I was working on. They can be temporarily deformed and distorted well beyond the breaking limit of other O-ring materials and I have found with other urethane parts that nicks and cuts are less prone to grow. However in one submersion test I did with a light, I noticed some evidence of water leakage which didn't happen with the "softer" and "springier" silicone O-rings. It was one test and possibly not valid. Given the excessive cost and poor availability of the urethane, I opted for the convenience and presumed better performance of the silicone. I consider a silicone O-ring to be one that may well require replacement whereas a urethane O-ring might well last the life of the device it is used on. The urethane I got seems slower to rebound to its steady form and in some seal geometries which may have irregularities or bumps or voids, this may allow for some seepage?!?!

I vaguely recall discussing the merits of urethane with PK in one conversation and when I got my Titan and saw the O-rings, I immediately assumed he had opted to go with a long lasting and tenacious urethane based O-ring. It is my opinion that the Titan has been constructed with a premium selection of materials with cost secondary, if even a consideration. You suggest that there are any number of compositions now available and it would not surprise me if SF went beyond the normal in selecting a premium material here. Actually I expect this is the case. The irony is that they probably know they are using the best you can get and don't bother to mention this to their customers or blow their horn about it. And on the subject of blow, if someone thinks I am speaking as a blind SF fan boy, there is something they can blow! :nana:

Ultimately, we don't know what the material used here is but it is not a material we recognize. That in itself is a statement and I leave it to the individual to decide what significance this may have. 

Before feathers get too ruffled, it is my opinion that the SF marketing dept has stooped to some BS and lame hype in regards to the Titan but that doesn't change the fact or alter what the Titan really is or the design and material decisions it is based upon.


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## ShortArc (Apr 7, 2008)

Mine had an o-ring. Let's see if the replacement will have on?


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## Manzerick (Apr 7, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> It is my opinion that the Titan has been constructed with a premium selection of materials with cost secondary, if even a consideration.





+1 I can't think of many Ti torches that are not. It is this property that make mine so hard to even think about parting with.


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## AvidHiker (Apr 7, 2008)

McGizmo said:


> AvidHiker,
> 
> I found a source for urethane O-rings a couple years ago and purchased some in sizes appropriate for the Aleph and PD series I was working on. They can be temporarily deformed and distorted well beyond the breaking limit of other O-ring materials and I have found with other urethane parts that nicks and cuts are less prone to grow. However in one submersion test I did with a light, I noticed some evidence of water leakage which didn't happen with the "softer" and "springier" silicone O-rings. It was one test and possibly not valid. Given the excessive cost and poor availability of the urethane, I opted for the convenience and presumed better performance of the silicone. I consider a silicone O-ring to be one that may well require replacement whereas a urethane O-ring might well last the life of the device it is used on. The urethane I got seems slower to rebound to its steady form and in some seal geometries which may have irregularities or bumps or voids, this may allow for some seepage?!?!
> 
> ...


 
Hey, I figured if anyone around here would know what type of o-ring that was, you would be at the top of the list McGizmo. Thought it would be interesting to see if I could verify that for you, but, for one, I'm not _fully_ qualified to interpret IR spectra. I'm also no expert on o-rings, although I have seen quite a few different types around here over the years. It could quite possibly be one of the standard urethane elastomer compositions (as you suggested) and the compounding additives are just adding confusing peaks. Actually, it really does look a lot like some of the urethane o-rings pictured on this website (fig 47). About the only thing I can be certain of with our FTIR is if 2 materials match, it is very good at "fingerprinting" materials.

I see your point about a somewhat softer seal material performing better, and that tends to be the case in the lab as well (especially at room temperature) when trying to prevent leaks with low viscosity liquids. You typically want a lower durometer (like your average silicone) while keeping a low compression set (common to both silicone and urethane I think). I suppose Surefire was considering the lifetime of the o-ring as well, and sparing no expense of course :thumbsup:, but it does seem to be a little too rigid for the ultimate seal (probably fine for my needs though). I definitely agree with your choice to go with silicone over urethane, now if only I could get a hold of your new Lunasol 27 to test that out a bit more (boy is that a beauty!). I'll be keeping an eye out...


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## Arcoholic (Apr 7, 2008)

O.K.
my first Titan has the washer and my second more recent one does not. On the one without the washer the tail cap can be screwed all the way down to hide the o-ring maybe that is why they left the washer out in the second batch seeing that the oring now provides a good seal.
my 2 cents


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## ShortArc (Apr 11, 2008)

Titan Update:
I received my replacement Titan today via UPS Red Label. I did have to initiate yet another call yesterday to inquire about the status, as they had received my marred one Monday of this week. Presumably nothing was going to happen until I called. Now for the bad part, this is the email I just sent to SF:

_"Hi Jose,_
_I received the Titan today, thank you for shipping it UPS overnight!_
_Unfortunately this Titan has another problem. When you set it down on the table or gently tap the tail cap, the LED will momentarily go out. The LED will also change brightness when being taped._
_Further the LED has bluest tint of any LED light I own and I own quite a few. If you like blue tint LEDS that’s nice for me this is not._
_Further you had promised me a low SN Titan, even hinted that is was lower than my other one (which was #42). The replacement is #861!_
_I am usually not this picky about stuff but given the amount of time I spent, the time I waited, the return product being marred, I am very disappointed._
_Unfortunately I will not be able to accept this Titan as a replacement as the turning off the LED/changing brightness by setting if down the table top is an unacceptable “feature”._
_Please advise!"_

.... Mine did not have a washer,
Regards,
Willem.


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## cy (Apr 11, 2008)

if one doesn't wear titan on a lanyard while doing vigorous activities. then accidental release will probably not be an issue. 

however my lifestyle include vigorous activities that requires wrestling around heavy objects. logging for instance requires full body effort moving around 500+lb wood. working on a transmission under a truck, caving, climbing a 75ft tree, etc, etc. 

under above conditions, titan on a lanyard under your shirt gets substantial side forces. sooner or later slots will align up just right and titan will separate from lanyard. 

then titan will drop out of your shirt, smacking the concrete or what ever else it happens to fall on. mine separated twice, hitting concrete. not happy with resulting nicks. Surefire of course will not fix cosmetic issues. even if it was caused by a defective design. 

now that I've come up with my own solution. a solid mount that no way will accidentally release. MUCH happier with Titan. no way I should have to come up with reliable attachment point for a $500 flashlight



yaesumofo said:


> Maybe it is because I don't use the quick disconnect much but I have not found it to be all that flimsy. I don't find it all that easy to connect or disconnect. the alignment needs to be just right in order to do either.
> My fear of using a locked bolt is that the entire tail section could become loose and fall away...leaving behind the tail.


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## chris1 (Apr 11, 2008)

I just got my titan #627 yesterday. I know that this came from a recent surefire shipment. Could one perhaps assume that this unit was previously returned and reworked given the the middle of the pack serial#?

I have to admit, after reading this thread I was a bit worried and even considered cancelling my order. I'm very happy to report that I can't find any faults with this one. The ti finish is good all around, the emitter is centered and this has got to be one of the whitest led's I've got or have had- and I've had plenty. In addition, I find the attachment fairly secure (but then again I haven't really used it either). I'm still deciding whether throw this thing in my pocket or perhaps sell it. If I keep it, it won't be a shelf queen- it's too cool to leave sitting around. Oh, and there's no gasket, however, the tailcap seal seems fine.


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## yaesumofo (Apr 11, 2008)

Personally I would NOT considder the Titan to be suitable for use under these conditions.
IMHO.The titan is NOT a HEAVY DUTY HEAVY USE flashlight.
It is a wonderful light but not designed for the kind of use you describe. Using and carrying the titan under the conditions you describe will lead to unhappyness IMHO.
Why not use a light more suited to the type of work that you do. somthing which is designed to take abuse? At the least a light with a non detachable lanyard system? Or a light with a clip?
Yaesumofo





cy said:


> if one doesn't wear titan on a lanyard while doing vigorous activities. then accidental release will probably not be an issue.
> 
> however my lifestyle include vigorous activities that requires wrestling around heavy objects. logging for instance requires full body effort moving around 500+lb wood. working on a transmission under a truck, caving, climbing a 75ft tree, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


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## Size15's (Apr 11, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Personally I would NOT considder the Titan to be suitable for use under these conditions.


I agree.


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## cv3po (Apr 11, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Personally I would NOT considder the Titan to be suitable for use under these conditions.
> IMHO.The titan is NOT a HEAVY DUTY HEAVY USE flashlight.
> It is a wonderful light but not designed for the kind of use you describe. Using and carrying the titan under the conditions you describe will lead to unhappyness IMHO.
> Why not use a light more suited to the type of work that you do. somthing which is designed to take abuse? At the least a light with a non detachable lanyard system? Or a light with a clip?
> Yaesumofo


 

Hmmm, then this is the first SF light that is actually MEANT to be put on a shelf and admired from afar and not actually USED right? Or at the least you could say that the most expensive SF LED light must be treated lightly because it's fragile? I posted earlier that I've handled a Titan and didn't really see the point.............I guess there really isn't one


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## this_is_nascar (Apr 11, 2008)

I also agree. I never visioned the Titan as a work-horse light and as such, don't consider the attachment to be a problem or unreliable. In this case, I think you have to look past the "it's a $500 light" thing. You're using it in conditions is was never built to be used in.


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## Lunal_Tic (Apr 11, 2008)

ShortArc said:


> _. . . Further you had promised me a low SN Titan, even hinted that is was lower than my other one (which was #42). The replacement is #861!_




Interesting, when I contacted them they told me


> Because the Titan is a serialized limited edition light, we cannot replace the entire light. What we can do is replace the parts that do not meet your expectations with parts that do.


 Seems a bit inconsistent.

-LT


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## Size15's (Apr 11, 2008)

cv3po said:


> Hmmm, then this is the first SF light that is actually MEANT to be put on a shelf and admired from afar and not actually USED right?


Not at all.
You imply that there is either heavy use or no use when in fact there are many different uses for light.

I would not suggest mounting the Titan on a shotgun but then I wouldn't clip a SureFire 618FGA to my keys either.



cy said:


> vigorous activities that requires wrestling around heavy objects. logging for instance requires full body effort moving around 500+lb wood. working on a transmission under a truck, caving, climbing a 75ft tree, etc, etc.


Being carried and used under these such conditions and activities is not the sort of use for which the Titan is intended. 
It's unlikely you'd wear football boots for such activities but it doesn't mean football boots have to sit on a shelf if they can't be used for logging or caving etc.
These activities would seem to warrant the use of dedicated and perhaps specialist personal projective equipment (PPE) for example steel-toed boots, gloves, eye protection, work clothing etc.
If you're wearing PPE or specialist gear I would seriously consider whether the Titan is an appropriate flashlight to carry. I would also seriously consider how the flashlight and other tools are carried so as to ensure they are retained and more importantly don't pose a health and safety risk.

I have no doubt in the Titan's attachment mechanism capabilities to retain the Titan in normal everyday use.


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## yaesumofo (Apr 11, 2008)

Maybe if you had one to use on a regular basis you would understand. Since you do not I doubt that there is anything I can say to you to help you come to a clear understanding of the point.

Yaesumofo




cv3po said:


> Hmmm, then this is the first SF light that is actually MEANT to be put on a shelf and admired from afar and not actually USED right? Or at the least you could say that the most expensive SF LED light must be treated lightly because it's fragile? I posted earlier that I've handled a Titan and didn't really see the point.............I guess there really isn't one


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## yaesumofo (Apr 11, 2008)

NO. The Titan is not designed to live on a shelf.
Look at it from this point of view.

Open the catalogue. look around you will see surefire flashlights in many circumstances. on guns in the hands of soldiers, police, firemen and so fourth.
If you were to look at the images which Surefire used to sell the Titan is the titan sitting in a bare hand. It was called a luxury illumination tool.
They do not refer to it as a light for tactical and duty use or self-defense navigation searchlight 


Here is what surefire says about the TITAN:

Ultra compact (pinky-sized), mini flashlight that establishes a whole new class of illumination tools: luxury flashlights. The Titan is the world's only fully variable-output flashlight, with an operating range from zero to 65 lumens and all points in between. No preset levels; just total, seamless control—over 1,000 possible output levels. The Titan features an all-titanium body with an elegant satin finish, a no-look control bezel for precision operation, a virtually indestructible LED, a scratch-resistant sapphire window, an Acme-threaded tailcap, and a quick-connect/disconnect interface that easily attaches to its included lanyard or key ring. "

Nothing about any of the terms mentioned above like:
tactical, duty, self-defense, navigation, searchlight, 

The Titan is certainly NOT meant for the shelf. but it it not meant for the rigors of a logging crew or pouring concrete or as use as a "tactical" flashlight.


The Titan is a $500.00 light. Not because it is so versatile and has the ability to be used as a multi purpose illumination tool. but because it is a small run and is basically a hand built flashlight. It is a commercially made custom flashlight if you will.
Hell look at it like this.
There are cigarette lighters which cost 99 cents. they are plastic Bic lighters. then there are $20.00-$30.00 zippo lighters. then there are $300-$2000.00 DuPont (class)lighters.
they all do exactly the same thing. light cigarettes. Personally If I smoked I wouldn't take the DuPont lighter to the work site but I would take the zippo. well The same could be said of these flashlights.
You have your photon, throw away. Your mag light worker and Your surefire titan (class). Yes they all produce light. Do you take the titan to the dirty gnarly work site? Not me.

BTW I am of the opinion that the attachment point works just fine. I have no problem with it what so ever. It has to be aligned just so in order to detach it.
Yaesumofo





cv3po said:


> Hmmm, then this is the first SF light that is actually MEANT to be put on a shelf and admired from afar and not actually USED right? Or at the least you could say that the most expensive SF LED light must be treated lightly because it's fragile? I posted earlier that I've handled a Titan and didn't really see the point.............I guess there really isn't one


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## cv3po (Apr 11, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> NO. The Titan is not designed to live on a shelf.
> Look at it from this point of view.
> 
> Open the catalogue. look around you will see surefire flashlights in many circumstances. on guns in the hands of soldiers, police, firemen and so fourth.
> ...


 


'Tis a good point. I'm sure a part of me is just jealous that I cannot afford one!  Do you think that the T1A will be made to more durable specs or will it, too, have to be handled with kid gloves? If it was made to the same specs as the rest of their lights I'd still go for the T1A.............

On second thought, I don't think I'm "classy" enough. I'll stick with my E1B and my Bic


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## Size15's (Apr 11, 2008)

cv3po said:


> Do you think that the T1A will be made to more durable specs or will it, too, have to be handled with kid gloves?


I don't consider that the Titan needs to be handled with kid gloves. I've seen several Titans that have spent months on keys, including my own and a couple of my friends who have been carrying Titan for well over a year, perhaps two.

I think that the aluminium Titan T1A will hopefully be the result of SureFire learning from the Titan T1-Ti so that manufacturing and assembling them is easier in non-limited edition retail numbers.


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## tvodrd (Apr 11, 2008)

#0323 has resided in my left-front pants pocket since arrival, and is used 1X pre-dawn, and ~8X post sunset on a daily basis. Unlike for cy, detachment isn't an issue for me. Add to that, the tint doesn't vary from low to high that I can see, which implies that coaxial pot is fed into a PWM circuit. I guess I just got lucky! (I'm still hoping for a serious EE tear-down as to how the sucker really works, and the efficiencies at various levels!)

I'm sorry to see some good friends having problems with theirs, which I attribute to feces occurs with cutting-edge gear.

Larry


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## cy (Apr 12, 2008)

well it seems I'm in the minority in thinking Titan should come with a reliable lanyard attachment, no matter what I'm doing. 

could see conditions for lanyard separating while mountain biking, backpacking and a host of other normal vigorous activities. 

it'd be easy for Surefire to remedy this. drill a hole sideways next to slots for a lanyard ring. then put a warning not to use quick disconnect for vigorous activities. 

anyways... my Titan has always been dead reliable, great tint and all that. now that lanyard issues are fixed. 

Titan is slowly earning EDC status and will doing same EDC duties this summer at Philmont scout ranch during a 2 week backpacking trip.


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## AvidHiker (Apr 12, 2008)

cy,

Just out of curiosity, how many times would you estimate you had used the quick disconnect before you started having problems with it? I guess I'm interested to know if it has significantly loosened/broken-in since it was new. Do you feel it was a problem from day 1?

As I've noted in prior posts, mine was extraordinarily stiff when I first received it - so stiff that I couldn't fathom the possibility of accidental release. Now that I've broken it in with (gross estimate) maybe a couple hundred on/off cycles, it certainly comes off much more easily and I would concede that there might now be a very small chance of it coming off by accident - but certainly not in some of the activities you suggested, like mountainbiking or backpacking (two activities in which I have used my Titan btw).

Do you think its possible that you simply got a poorly fitted quick release? Wouldn't Surefire fix this? (understandably, you would probably be reluctant to send it back, and you certainly seem happy with your improvised fix). I'm not trying to suggest that you're wrong, but shoudn't it ultimately be up to Surefire to decide if your Titan is either in need of repair or functioning within spec? I just think your point would carry a lot more weight if Surefire failed or refused to recognize it as an issue with the design after bringing it to their attention.

Which brings me to my second point, clearly the Titan *can be roughly handled* if cy is still using it. Granted, he had an issue with the quick release, but it has yet to be shown that this is an issue with all Titans (as far as I know, no one else has reported this problem).


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## cy (Apr 12, 2008)

Titan's original lanyard attachment was very tight. so stiff, I worked it a butt load of cycles just to loosen it up. 

stiffness or lack of is not the issue. just because you went mountain biking a few times with Titan not falling off. doesn't mean it won't at some point. just that the right conditions didn't happen. 

it takes exact combination of side ways force and slot aligning up just right. basically it's a crap shoot. how would you like to discover your $500 flashlight is missing after a bike ride? 

fix is so unbelievable simple. took me all of 20 minutes to fix (ok an hour). Titan laid in my drawer for months, because I was pi**ed that a $500 flashlight should fall off twice, smacking concrete and need me to fix. 

speaking with Surefire Customer service convinced me a fix was not forth coming. to their credit, Surefire immediately offered to ship back for repair. with horror stories of what others were getting back. there's no way I was shipping back a perfect working Titan. 

crazy prices on ebay meant I could easily get my $$ back + some. 
problem was I like my Titan... so I got off my butt and come up with a reliable fix. now Titan has knocked Li14430 off EDC duties. which is no small thing to do!

new attachment provides an excellent teeth hold. here's a closeup of ti aircraft hardware used. bolt similar to second from right was chosen, so threads cut would be new. surplus hardware came from American Airlines. sorry no more available. 














AvidHiker said:


> cy,
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how many times would you estimate you had used the quick disconnect before you started having problems with it? I guess I'm interested to know if it has significantly loosened/broken-in since it was new. Do you feel it was a problem from day 1?
> 
> ...


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## AvidHiker (Apr 12, 2008)

nice pic, mmmmm titanium:thumbsup:

I see your point, I certainly don't have much history with the Titan. I suppose it remains to be seen how the attachment will perform for everyone over the next few years. I just still can't see how it would detach accidentally during any of _my_ activities, but no doubt it will vary from person to person. Anyway, for that reason I'm willing to trust it until it fails - guess I'll just hope it doesn't result in a total loss!!

Its waaay too nice to risk loosing, but its also waaaay to nice to resist using!:thinking:


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## Christoph (Apr 12, 2008)

2 separate RMA #'s received so I can send them back separately. It shipped this morning.


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## jch79 (Apr 12, 2008)

FYI, my Titan with a chip in it from SF is being sent back to be replaced. This light has left a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not sure what'll happen with the replacement light.

I still love SF, and I think it's awesome that they rolled out a light like the Titan, and despite the problems, IMHO, it's still an amazing little light with great features. And despite the time of service with their repairs dept., they still are true to their word, as usual.

:wave: john


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## Phredd (Apr 12, 2008)

chris1 said:


> I just got my titan #627 yesterday. ... Could one perhaps assume that this unit was previously returned and reworked given the the middle of the pack serial#?



Not necessarily. They don't seem to be assembling these in serial number order.


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## Kilovolt (Apr 22, 2008)

Well, yesterday my Titan #328 started flickering. 

I checked immediately the battery voltage and it was right. I changed the battery with a new one, no improvement. Then I thought that maybe some of the silicone I used on the o-ring had migrated to a place where it could cause a bad electrical contact. While I was cleaning the threads inside the tailcap I noted for the first time that the rubber gasket prevented the edge of the body from touching the inside of the tailcap itself. In this case the circuit was closed only through the threads and titanium threads at that. Titanium is not celebrated for its good electrical properties. And when the threads get dirty or coated with an insulating material you may have an uncertain contact, a situation similar to that of the NDI.

Before even completing the cleaning I removed the rubber gasket et voilà: no more flickering. 

To my knowledge it is not usual for Surefire to rely on the threads to conduct electricity. In their lights the edges of the body tube are normally in contact with a flat surface inside the head and the tailcap. The Titan with the rubber gasket installed appears to be an exception. I do not want to make any comment as to the reasons behind the presence of this component but it seems to me that from an electrical standpoint this rubber gasket is something the flashlight can well do without.


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## cy (Apr 22, 2008)

mine has the elastic washer. edge of tube rests against washer and helps seal tailcap. really like having two gaskets sealing out elements. 

no issues what so ever with electronics. I'll tighten down tailcap pretty snug. acme threads are known to be extremely strong. 

Titan has taken over EDC duties and hardly ever comes off it's lanyard. 
infinity ultra G lanyards are the best!!!


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## Christoph (May 6, 2008)

#0798 just got back from SF they said they no longer use the rubber washer in the tail cap.It is for sale in the marketplace.I can't keep a spare light of that price range 
Chris


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## Christoph (May 9, 2008)

Well after a better look at #0798 prior to packing it for sale,it seems that the original problems,loose emitter and not much heat transfer, Still exist what a let down I thought surefire CS was supposed to be better than that. Color me very  
C


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## MikeSalt (May 9, 2008)

Sorry to hear that Christoph. Looks like you will have to be back on the phone to Surefire again.


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## Frenchyled (Sep 5, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Let me ask this question before I send the thing back.
> Do any of you who have a TITAN have a light which FLICKERS during the adjustment? Mine flickers when on bright and I dim it it will flicker on the way to a lower level. It does it always in the same place at one point and sometimes in another spot.
> 
> Yaesumofo



Hi Yaesumofo....

My Titan is doing exactly the same thing since two days 
Did you send yours back for this reason ?

It is only when I decrease from high level to low level and exactly between two same place as well...In this case, my Titan flickers some time to low level until I turn it low or high...

I think I will sell mine to a guy who could send it for repair to Surefire 

It worked fine for about 6 month of use, it still work, but this malfunction is annoying.


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## Christoph (Sep 5, 2008)

Frenchyled I have two that are doing that flickering thing among other problems. The surefire tech I talked to said this is a known problem.I am going to send my second one back for new electronics when the first one gets back. I feel bad for all the people with ones that have not been opened yet they will have problems when they do go to use them.
Chris


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## Frenchyled (Sep 5, 2008)

Thank you Chris 

So, I have no oher choice than to sell mine at cost price to a guy who are living in The States ?

:shakehead


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## NoFair (Sep 5, 2008)

Frenchyled said:


> Thank you Chris
> 
> So, I have no oher choice than to sell mine at cost price to a guy who are living in The States ?
> 
> :shakehead


 
Surefire CS has been nice to me even if I live in Norway. 

I'd send them an e-mail; glin *at* surefire *dot* com was fast at replying to and fixing my problem. You will probably have to send your light in, but they mark it as a warranty and return so you should not have to pay tax when you get it back.

Sorry to hear of your issues.

Sverre


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## Tempest UK (Sep 5, 2008)

Frenchyled said:


> Thank you Chris
> 
> So, I have no oher choice than to sell mine at cost price to a guy who are living in The States ?
> 
> :shakehead



I don't see any reason why that's your only choice. SureFire's warranty is international.

Regards,
Tempest


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## Frenchyled (Sep 6, 2008)

NoFair said:


> Surefire CS has been nice to me even if I live in Norway.
> 
> I'd send them an e-mail; glin *at* surefire *dot* com was fast at replying to and fixing my problem. You will probably have to send your light in, but they mark it as a warranty and return so you should not have to pay tax when you get it back.
> 
> ...



Thank you !! 

I will send him an email on monday and will let you know 


Tempest UK, you're right, but I am always afraid that I lose the light in the shipping.


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## NoFair (Sep 6, 2008)

Frenchyled said:


> Thank you !!
> 
> I will send him an email on monday and will let you know
> 
> ...


 
Let us know how it goes Frenchy:thumbsup:

I usually store the e-mail addresses of good CS people 

Sverre


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## Frenchyled (Sep 11, 2008)

Hi Sverre,

I sent him an email on monday and I haven't still a reply....maybe he is on hollidays ? 
I will wait until next monday and will send another one if he didn't reply !!

Thank yo for your help :twothumbs


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## cy (Sep 11, 2008)

mine started to intermittently flicker.... worked bezel several times... problems went away..


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## Frenchyled (Sep 12, 2008)

Yes CY..I tried to worked bezel several times, but the problem still here..it is like a ramping luminosity only when I decrease from high to low and at a certain position...


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## Frenchyled (Oct 20, 2008)

Hey, just to tell you that my Surefire TITAN is back !! And working nicer than ever 

Thank you Surefire Customers Service


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## Kiessling (Oct 20, 2008)

Good to hear !


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## Kilovolt (Oct 21, 2008)

Frenchyled said:


> Hey, just to tell you that my Surefire TITAN is back !! And working nicer than ever


 
Very good! 

How long did it take in total (shipment to and fro plus repair)?


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## Frenchyled (Oct 21, 2008)

Kilovolt said:


> Very good!
> 
> How long did it take in total (shipment to and fro plus repair)?



I sent it on september 29 th and received it on october 20 th...about 22 days  Not bad at all !!

:wave:

PS: Now I have to play with my Spy 007 received today in my hand


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## Tempest UK (Oct 21, 2008)

Frenchyled said:


> Hey, just to tell you that my Surefire TITAN is back !! And working nicer than ever
> 
> Thank you Surefire Customers Service



Very glad to hear everything worked out for you. Enjoy it 

Regards,
Tempest


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## cy (Oct 22, 2008)

frenchy... glad it worked out...

mine's been flickering on and off.. took battery out... rotated bezel 50 or so times... no more problems. 

possible problem with rheostat maintaining contact on every step. all the twisting I did cleaned off contacts.


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## yaesumofo (Oct 22, 2008)

After one visit to SF and a lot of break in the flickering on mine went away too.
The titan for all of it's coolness is an amazing little flashlight.
I would like to fine a nice titanium chain for it to live on....
Yaesumofo




cy said:


> frenchy... glad it worked out...
> 
> mine's been flickering on and off.. took battery out... rotated bezel 50 or so times... no more problems.
> 
> possible problem with rheostat maintaining contact on every step. all the twisting I did cleaned off contacts.


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## Christoph (Oct 30, 2008)

I've thought long and hard about this and I need to say this. I bought two Titans. One was almost perfect the second one had emitter attachment issues (#0798) It went back to surefire three times the third time it was returned to me it changed its number to #801 and now #801 is a disgrace to surefires QC it has a dented tailcap





The emitter is off center and up against the reflector and it seems like some of the reflector coating is coming off the surface.





I just talked to a Training manager and was not impressed with the way he talked to me.I have several surefires however this is the first time I have had to deal with their CS dept and I have to tell you I find them wanting *bigtime*.I am giving them another chance only be cause I am hosed if I don't. Very disapointing:scowl:
Chris


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## yaesumofo (Oct 30, 2008)

Christoph said:


> I've thought long and hard about this and I need to say this. I bought two Titans. One was almost perfect the second one had emitter attachment issues (#0798) It went back to surefire three times the third time it was returned to me it changed its number to #801 and now #801 is a disgrace to surefires QC it has a dented tailcap
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very sorry to hear this.
I can't imagine that the whole titan program was anything but a HUGE HEADACHE for the company. I suspect that they would LOVE to put the whole thing behind them.

Keep plugging away.
When I sent mine in for repair it came back fixed (from a fall it broke) but had flickering issues. It was unimagineable to me that they would send me back anything but a perfect light back but they did.
Surefire is generally a good company. I beleive that they really had a lot of troubble with the Titan program...

yaesumofo


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## Christoph (Dec 9, 2008)

Well I've had a happy ending to this saga Titan #801 was received the other day and it is completely good now. Now I have to send in my edc Titan# 757 for the "flicker" issue I will be crossing my fingers on this one.
C:tinfoil:


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## [email protected] (Dec 9, 2008)

Reading up I'm glad I sold mine. The question isn't *if* it is going to fail, but *when*. Even very expensive full sized potmeters will develope noise over time, let alone a minature one ...:sigh:

The concept is great, but I'll wait for a light with non mechanical (read: Hall effect) dimming. :sleepy:


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## BigD64 (Dec 9, 2008)

Surefire repair department is spending a LOT of time on the Titans. I believe this is why the T1A, the Optimus and the Invictus are still not released. They want the lights to be bullet proof before being released. That's one problem with the lifetime warranty, they want to make sure the lights are close to perfect and reliable before they ship.


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## Christoph (Dec 9, 2008)

BigD64
It seems like they forgot to do that with the Titan.:thinking:


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## Size15's (Dec 9, 2008)

Christoph said:


> BigD64
> It seems like they forgot to do that with the Titan.:thinking:


The number of Titan proto-types for field-testing was extremely small - just a few units AFAIK, one of which PK had personally.
The issues people have been experiencing were not discovered during this phase and any solutions devised were difficult to QA given the rarity of the Titan and the variety of use each one has been put to since purchase.
(from a good number remaining sealed new in box, to those (such as mine) used as EDC lights given little special treatment)

All Titans are individually hand-made and are very difficult to do so. Only a few people at SureFire could be dedicated to manufacturing and assembling each one of the limited production batch. Even fewer are able to repair them.

I believe that the extent of the challenge to produce Titans in any quantity surprised SureFire and work to ensure they can be reliably mass-produced has taken longer to complete as a result.


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## cy (Dec 10, 2008)

had a scare with my Titan which had been working great. 

it started flickering... tried the rotating bezel trick, which usually clears up any minor glitches. took the battery out again... rotated it a few more times... flicking got worst. 

thought oh no.. not the infamous flicker issue on mine too. 
then took the CR2 cell out and measured voltage.... cell was almost dead.... replaced cell ... flickering went away. whewwww..... back to normal.


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## Arcoholic (Dec 10, 2008)

i just send one of mine in for the flickering issue, it was fixed within 2 weeks. I must admit though that this EDC has been treated very hard and it held up very good. Still my fav EDC with real world performance


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## Christoph (Dec 10, 2008)

It is my favorite pocket light as well I hope to carry it for a long time.I hope the turn around is quick I don't like to be without it.
C


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## bmstrong (Dec 11, 2008)

cy said:


> had a scare with my Titan which had been working great.
> 
> it started flickering... tried the rotating bezel trick, which usually clears up any minor glitches. took the battery out again... rotated it a few more times... flicking got worst.
> 
> ...



Titan still your number one EDC?


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## AA6TZ (Dec 11, 2008)

I was all set to buy one, too. :shakehead (Yes - I located an honest-to-God Titanium Titan for sale...).

-Clive


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## cy (Dec 11, 2008)

yup.. it's been my EDC since the day I got it, including dropping it a few times due to the crappy attachment point... retired Li14430 

My Titan has been very reliable and has traveled with me on several trips. including a 2 week backpacking trip at Philmount Scout ranch. 

once I fab'd a Ti anchor for Titan to make lanyard attachment secure ... it's almost always on my person. Ti PD comes along too anytime I leave the house. 



bmstrong said:


> Titan still your number one EDC?


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## kaichu dento (Dec 31, 2008)

No issues for me yet, as I just got it, but I sure do like my first and only Surefire!


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## AA6TZ (Jan 1, 2009)

*Re: Congratulations, kaichu dento!*



kaichu dento said:


> No issues for me yet, as I just got it, but I sure do like my first and only Surefire!


 
*kaichu dento* -- *Congratulations*, *Pete!* I'm really happy for you!!! Glad to hear that your _very_ first SureFire is a Titan, which is arguably one of, if not THE most collectable models among their stellar lineup of torches. Wishing you many years of continued enjoyment and, knock on wood, _without_ any technical "issues" (malfunctions) rearing their ugly heads.

Take care and Happy New Year! :twothumbs

-Clive


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## RedLED (Jan 1, 2009)

cy said:


> Titan's original lanyard attachment was very tight. so stiff, I worked it a butt load of cycles just to loosen it up.
> 
> stiffness or lack of is not the issue. just because you went mountain biking a few times with Titan not falling off. doesn't mean it won't at some point. just that the right conditions didn't happen.
> 
> ...


 
You guys should try this place for all your Mil-Spec fastener needs. 

***

http://saturnfasteners.com/index2.ivnu

Or here.

***

http://www.partsbase.com/Public/includes/Layout.asp?Page=HOME

Or Here.


***

http://www.dataccess.net/

Or Here.

***

http://www.wescoair.com/DesktopDefault.aspx

***

http://www.air-industries.com/

***

And for you Ti nuts...better look here: ***

Hope this helps. 

RL


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## RedLED (Jan 1, 2009)

Moderator/Editor:

You may want to save my above Mil-Spec. parts post in other areas since it may appeal to the people who frequent this site.

Best,

RL


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## kaichu dento (Jan 1, 2009)

*Re: Congratulations, kaichu dento!*



AA6TZ said:


> *kaichu dento* -- *Congratulations*, *Pete!* I'm really happy for you!!! Glad to hear that your _very_ first SureFire is a Titan, which is arguably one of, if not THE most collectable models among their stellar lineup of torches. Wishing you many years of continued enjoyment and, knock on wood, _without_ any technical "issues" (malfunctions) rearing their ugly heads.
> 
> Take care and Happy New Year! :twothumbs
> 
> -Clive


Glad to have scored, but I'm sure you know that collectability was the least of reasons I would buy one of these. I know you bypassed getting one and now that I have one to actually formulate an opinion of my own about them, suggest you try to get ahold of one to at least try. I firmly believe they're not for everyone, but as a partner to my EDC D10, L0D and ArcAAA, the Titan is a very welcome addition that finally gives me a true low level light!


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## Size15's (Jan 1, 2009)

RedLed said:


> Moderator/Editor:
> 
> You may want to save my above Mil-Spec. parts post in other areas since it may appeal to the people who frequent this site.
> 
> ...


You may want to ensure you're not breaking our rules by hotlinking images without permission of the hosts (otherwise a CPF staff member will likely remove them just in case)


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## AA6TZ (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: Congratulations, kaichu dento!*



kaichu dento said:


> I know you bypassed getting one and now that I have one to actually formulate an opinion of my own about them, suggest you try to get ahold of one to at least try.


 
Hello *Pete* -- Speaking of small Titanium flashlights . . . I recently purchased an *Olight* Titanium *Infinitum* (#12 of 200) and am pretty darned impressed overall with the little workhorse. It's quite the beauty, too! It's low level output is _v-e-r-y_ low. Although it's maximum output is listed as "200 lumens", the beam from my SureFire *E2DL* (rated at 120 SUREFIRE lumens) is noticeably brighter.

I still would like to purchase a new SureFire Titan, but at _this_ point in time, it's like trying find the proverbial needle in a haystack. I'll keep searching, however...:thumbsup:

I'm really happy to hear you're enjoying your new Titan. It's received (as you know) _superior_ reviews. Okay -- so I'm just a wee bit envious...

Best Regards,

-Clive


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## js (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Congratulations, kaichu dento!*

RedLed,

I removed the hotlinked images from your post. Please don't hotlink images again. And, images over 800 pixels wide are also not allowed, hotlinked or no.

Also, haven't I seen your avatar picture somewhere before?


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## RedLED (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: Congratulations, kaichu dento!*



js said:


> RedLed,
> 
> I removed the hotlinked images from your post. Please don't hotlink images again. And, images over 800 pixels wide are also not allowed, hotlinked or no.
> 
> Also, haven't I seen your avatar picture somewhere before?


 
Don't know?


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## cy (Feb 21, 2012)

Ti Titan has been sitting dead in my drawer for sometime .. a little hesitant sending back to Surefire for repairs. no telling which light you will get back... 

has everyone gotten back their original Titan after getting repaired


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## faco (Feb 21, 2012)

cy, I sent mine in for repair when it first came out and got the same one back and have no problems with it anymore. It's been so long I can't remember what the problem was, guessing it had a flickering issue ?

Been so long since anyone has posted here, still enjoying mine although I don't use it often

Good luck


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## kaichu dento (Feb 22, 2012)

cy said:


> Ti Titan has been sitting dead in my drawer for sometime .. a little hesitant sending back to Surefire for repairs. no telling which light you will get back...
> 
> has everyone gotten back their original Titan after getting repaired


I got back my original light both times with the head changed.


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## cy (Feb 22, 2012)

faco, thanks for the feedback .. Titan needs to go back to surefire for repairs


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## DM51 (Feb 22, 2012)

cy, just a word of caution - some people who sent early ones back where there were faults did not get the same ones returned - the replacements had different serial #s. Just mentioning it in case yours has a # you want to keep.


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## kaichu dento (Feb 22, 2012)

DM51 said:


> cy, just a word of caution - some people who sent early ones back where there were faults did not get the same ones returned - the replacements had different serial #s. Just mentioning it in case yours has a # you want to keep.


Forgot about that issue since I was lucky enough to get back the same serial # both times I sent Titan's back for repair.


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## nbp (Feb 23, 2012)

cy said:


> Ti Titan has been sitting dead in my drawer for sometime .. a little hesitant sending back to Surefire for repairs. no telling which light you will get back...
> 
> has everyone gotten back their original Titan after getting repaired




Completely off topic, but you gotta take some more pics of that PD and post them in the 'well-worn Ti EDC thread'. Love that look bro, hope my Haiku and Mule will look like that some day. :thumbsup:


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## Christoph (Mar 14, 2014)

Back from the dead thread:candle: CY did you ever send your titan back for repairs? Mine is still going strong twisting action is now very slick.have been using a 3.2v rechargeable in for a while now still my favorite next to my Spy005
Quick disconnect is still tight and secure.


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## Craig K (Mar 17, 2014)

Just got my first ever Titan today and it is a very nice light.


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## hcd615 (Mar 24, 2014)

Just bought two T1A Titan's 90 lumen today. Will have both by Friday. I am excited.


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