# A special upgrade for a special CPF member ...



## wquiles (Nov 18, 2006)

After my prorotype Cree LED light with a canibalized Dorcy Super 1 Watt L.E.D. reflector turned better than we expected, a CPF member contacted me about modying his personal 3D Dorcy with a Cree as well. The initial "order" was for a simple swap of the 1W Luxeon for the 3W Cree, but that is not exactly what happened ... :naughty: 

Here is a size comparison against my favorite and most used incandescent light:







Dorcy light coming apart:









































Value of stock current limiting resistor:






Very thin heatsink/star holder (not even thermal paste was used!):






Replacing stars:











Voltage of 3 new D cells (using my $30 dolar used Fluke M189 !!!):






So using approx. this voltage on my bench supply I measured about 675mA going to the LED:






Once I replaced the Cree, I found I needed about 2.18Ohms to get about the same current to the Cree:






So instead of a simple swap, I wanted to give this member a "surprise" and used a FluPIC to get 3 levels (Low, High, Burst):






And with the inline resistor I get (this is current from the supply, not at the LED):
Low:





High:





Burst:






Assembly:


























Unfortunately the stock position of the reflector was still too high for the Cree:
Here is Low:





High:





Burst:






From my work with the prototype I learned that the reflector (which is made of plastic) needs to be barely touching the base of the Cree for good focus, so I "created" some spacers of a rubery material to get the Cree to the "right" spot:






As I have an unmodified Dorcy, I used it for comparison to the modified Dorcy. As always, Canon Rebel XT on tripod, kit lens, wide angle, manual exposure (2sec/F5.6). Note that the Dorcy reflector is relatively "cheap" and smooth, so artifacts are visible at the higher power levels:
Stock Dorcy:





Cree Dorcy, Low:





Cree Dorcy, High:





Cree Dorcy, Burst:






Still indoors, but against a target further out so that you can see the spill: 
Stock Dorcy on Left, Cree Dorcy on Right, Low:





Stock Dorcy on Left, Cree Dorcy on Right, High:





Stock Dorcy on Left, Cree Dorcy on Right, Burst:






Then outdoors against my neigbtbor's house:
Stock Dorcy:





Cree Dorcy, Low:





Cree Dorcy, High:





Cree Dorcy, Burst:






and finally, closer shot in the grass to show sidespill:
Stock Dorcy:





Cree Dorcy, Low:





Cree Dorcy, High:





Cree Dorcy, Burst:






Overall I really like the upgrade and the Cree gives significantly more light at about the same current going in. The beam is not perfect, but neither is the stock reflector - sputtering would improve the beam dramatically, but "as is" it is still a very nice reflector and a very good match for the new Cree LED 

The only thing I "would" like to do is to go back and instead of 2 ohms use the 1.3 Ohm resistor to get more light on Burst mode - then you would have more distinct levels as right now High and Burst are too close for me.

Lets have the "owner" of this light decide  

Will


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## Lunal_Tic (Nov 19, 2006)

Very nice. :thumbsup: Do you think a McR reflector could be shoe horned in there? That would likely fix the beam but then you'd have to worry about the metal reflector touching the leads I guess. I've had that problem before.

-LT


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## adirondackdestroyer (Nov 19, 2006)

WOW! Awesome work! How much would you charge for this set up all together? Just curious.


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## wquiles (Nov 19, 2006)

Lunal_Tic said:


> Very nice. :thumbsup: Do you think a McR reflector could be shoe horned in there? That would likely fix the beam but then you'd have to worry about the metal reflector touching the leads I guess. I've had that problem before.
> 
> -LT


Good question. When you look at the Dorcy reflecor you can see that it is not totally smooth in the curvature - that is likely the source of some of the rings that you see in the beamshots above. 

I am just getting started with the Cree on larger hosts, so my exposure and experience is extremely limited, but the only reflector that I have used with a Cree that gives a nicer beam is the no-longer-available 45mm textured reflector from the HD45 that Don created. The smooth curvature plus the textured finish gives a great beam :naughty: .

Using kapton tape or any other thin insulator should be fine (in my opinion - I have not tried yet) to get the electrical isolation, so I am not worried. We just need to find a source for either more of these Dorcy reflectors and/or something similar so that we can keep experimenting and building larger lights with the new Cree LED 

Will


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## LifeNRA (Nov 19, 2006)

As the owner of this now amazing light I am as excited as a little boy at Christmas :rock: .

wiquiles,
You have done an awesome job on my light. I LOVE IT!!!
I also agree with you about the burst mode. Lets use the 1.3 resistor  .
I cannot thank you enough for all the hard work you put into this for me. The flupic is just an incredible suprise. Thank you so much. It is much, much more than I expected and I thank you very much.
:goodjob: and thanks again!
Now I can't wait to test it!
Jeff


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## wquiles (Nov 19, 2006)

I change the 2 Ohm back to the 1.38 Ohm, and it got a little bit brighter :naughty: 

I took additional photos to show some of the artifacts, which are inherent to this Cree/Lens combo. These look worst against a white wall, but in actual use it is a much nicer improvement from the 1W Luxeon 

I took two sets of pictures at two different exposures to compare the rings.

Cree Mod on left, Stock Dorcy on Right, Low, Med, High (darker):

















Cree Mod on left, Stock Dorcy on Right, Low, Med, High (brighter):
















Will


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## London Lad (Nov 19, 2006)

Nice bench power supply you have there.


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## cmacclel (Nov 19, 2006)

Will that is exactly how the beam looks with the Mag Reflector also. The Dark ring is very visable on "White Wall" shooting. The Cree provides a much brighter Hotspot and much brighter spill over the Luexeon's. If using a smooth reflector it seems like we have to deal with that dark ring around the hotspot. This must be from the 70 Degree beam of the XR-E's.


BTW....Good work as usual 


Mac


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 19, 2006)

Is the stock switch a reverse clickie?


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## fnmag (Nov 19, 2006)

Very good job. Where does the line start?


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## wquiles (Nov 19, 2006)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> WOW! Awesome work! How much would you charge for this set up all together? Just curious.


Not "cheap" since it is both parts and labor, but we can discuss via PM's. I have one Cree mounted on a star left 

Will


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## wquiles (Nov 19, 2006)

cmacclel said:


> Will that is exactly how the beam looks with the Mag Reflector also. The Dark ring is very visable on "White Wall" shooting. The Cree provides a much brighter Hotspot and much brighter spill over the Luexeon's. If using a smooth reflector it seems like we have to deal with that dark ring around the hotspot. This must be from the 70 Degree beam of the XR-E's.
> 
> BTW....Good work as usual
> 
> Mac


Thanks Mac 

Yes, the 70 Degree beam is a tough one to tame 





fnmag said:


> Very good job. Where does the line start?


If you have a stock Dorcy we can talk details via PM's. I only have one Cree mounted on a star left.




IsaacHayes said:


> Is the stock switch a reverse clickie?


Yes, and it works great for the FluPIC since once "ON", you press partially to get to the next menu option 




London Lad said:


> Nice bench power supply you have there.


Thank you 

Will


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## LifeNRA (Nov 19, 2006)

:rock: Man that looks bright. I can't wait to try it out.


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## kenster (Nov 19, 2006)

Will, I have to say I was bummed with all the pictures at first since I am on super slow dialup. Now I say, well worth the wait.:rock: I very much enjoyed all of them and what an all around fantastic job!:thumbsup: 

Ken


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## LifeNRA (Nov 19, 2006)

I am on dial up also. Think of how anxious I was waiting for the pics to load.  + :sweat: = :twothumbs


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 19, 2006)

Im on cable, and the high quality, low compression, large file size, sure does look nice!!


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## LifeNRA (Nov 19, 2006)

IsaacHayes,

:nana: You may have cable but by the end of the week I will have the light.


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## kenster (Nov 19, 2006)

LifeNRA said:


> I am on dial up also. Think of how anxious I was waiting for the pics to load.  + :sweat: = :twothumbs


 
Yes, with that in mind I`m sure it was 10 times as long for you but like I said well worth the wait! Congrats on the very cool light Jeff. Love to see some more beamshots if you sputter that reflector.

Ken


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## LifeNRA (Nov 19, 2006)

kenster said:


> Yes, with that in mind I`m sure it was 10 times as long for you but like I said well worth the wait! Congrats on the very cool light Jeff. Love to see some more beamshots if you sputter that reflector.
> 
> Ken


That is one thing I love about this place. You guys never stop thinking of ways to improve or upgrade. :lolsign: 
Thank you Kenster.


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## eebowler (Nov 19, 2006)

Will :bow:


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 19, 2006)

Ah yes Jeff, good point! You'll have even higher res view... in person! I want one of them reflectors bad!


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## wquiles (Nov 19, 2006)

IsaacHayes said:


> Im on cable, and the high quality, low compression, large file size, sure does look nice!!


Actually, for the record, all of those are low quality, high compression, very small images (640x480 pixels) 

Here is a VERY LARGE file of the full 8Megapixels image from my Canon Rebel XT - this is the original (3456x2304 pixels, 24-bit color), high quality, no compression, very large file (over 3 Megabytes large). Don't try downloading this one on dial-up :naughty: 

LINK TO VERY LARGE PHOTO 

Will


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 20, 2006)

Heh, I usualy compress my image files I upload on CPF to 11k. So anything is better than that! 

That pic took less than 8 secs! woo ho!


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## wquiles (Nov 20, 2006)

IsaacHayes said:


> Heh, I usualy compress my image files I upload on CPF to 11k. So anything is better than that!
> 
> That pic took less than 8 secs! woo ho!


I hear you bro! 

Isn't broadband awesome? :rock: 

I have 15Mbit/sec FIOS 

Will


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 20, 2006)

Dang, highest I've gotten is about 8Mbit/sec. But that's just from one server/website.

Any leads on where to get the bare reflector the dorcy uses? :naughty:

I wish my target had these on sale for $5 or whatever when they were going cheap!


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## dimlight (Nov 20, 2006)

why didn't you just run it at the 600+ mah and get the 100+ lumes out of it.i have two of the dorcys that i put t-bins in and am very happy with them. i can't wait till i get a new cree in them. i think i will run the right of the batts for full power. if that doesn't sound like it would blow the cree let me know. good work on them :goodjob:


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## wquiles (Nov 21, 2006)

IsaacHayes said:


> Any leads on where to get the bare reflector the dorcy uses? :naughty:
> 
> I wish my target had these on sale for $5 or whatever when they were going cheap!


Yes, I know . This last weekend I went to several Walt-Marts and Targets and not a single one to be found  

Will





dimlight said:


> why didn't you just run it at the 600+ mah and get the 100+ lumes out of it.i have two of the dorcys that i put t-bins in and am very happy with them.


No good reason except that I had the FluPIC and I wanted to give LifeNRA something "extra" and unexpected  . There is certainly nothing wrong with trying to stay around 600+ mA at a single level 

Will


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## LifeNRA (Nov 22, 2006)

OK, I received my Dorcey Cree mod today. :rock: 

First impression when turning it on inside the house.
There are some rings to the beam and some artifacts inside the hotspot. This is not a white wall hunting light. But this light is not designed to wall hunt. This light is made to throw. And it does throw very well.
I took it outside tonight and even though it was raining I could tell right away that this is a large improvement over the original. The throw is probably 50% more with the cree. The hotspot is bigger and also much, much brighter. You would never know the beam has any artifacts using it outside. It really is impressive. 
My Grandma's house is about 150 yards away and even in the rain I can light up nearly the whole front like daylight. 
I am more than happy with this mod and Will did a great job. :goodjob: 
Jeff

Oh and the flupic was very nice and useful touch.


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## wquiles (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks Jeff 

Will


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## LifeNRA (Nov 22, 2006)

wquiles said:


> Thanks Jeff
> 
> Will


Thank you! :rock:


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## LifeNRA (Jan 26, 2007)

I discovered a secret to this light last night.

I was playing with it and was wondering about the effects of stippling the reflector for a smoother beam. I took off the head and removed the reflector to look at it. I decided not to mess with it since it threw a beam so far and I didn't want to mess it up.
I put the reflector back in the head and screwed the head back on the body. But now the focus was worse, much worse. :huh2: 
I took the head back off and unscrewed the reflector and attempted to center it better before tightening it back up. The focus was better but still not as good as before. 
So I then unscrewed the retaining ring that holds the reflector just a little bit. Just enough to make the reflector loose in the bezel and screwed the head back on the light. WOW! What a difference it made. Now the beam is better than it ever was before. Nice bright hot spot and even better throw than before. The focus is great now. It looks just like the D-mini bream with a couple of rings which does not effect it at all outside in the real world.
Apparently by leaving the reflector a little loose it centered itself over the Cree.
I am even happier now than I was before.
:rock:


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## bombelman (Jan 26, 2007)

Nice mod and great pics !!


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## wquiles (Jan 26, 2007)

LifeNRA said:


> I discovered a secret to this light last night.
> 
> I was playing with it and was wondering about the effects of stippling the reflector for a smoother beam. I took off the head and removed the reflector to look at it. I decided not to mess with it since it threw a beam so far and I didn't want to mess it up.
> I put the reflector back in the head and screwed the head back on the body. But now the focus was worse, much worse. :huh2:
> ...


Cool - excellent 

Glad this light is working great for you 

Will


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## LifeNRA (Jan 26, 2007)

wquiles said:


> Cool - excellent
> 
> Glad this light is working great for you
> 
> Will


I am very happy with it. It is nice to grab at night and shine into the fields and woods. The throw is amazing.
Thank you Will. :goodjob:


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## Mr_Light (Jan 26, 2007)

I have a Dorcy 3D and a Cree Star and am planning a straight star swap. I am planning on adjusting focus with copper spacers under the star and was wondering about how thick a spacer I might want to start with? Would 1/8th of an inch be a good starting place?


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## wquiles (Jan 26, 2007)

LifeNRA said:


> I am very happy with it. It is nice to grab at night and shine into the fields and woods. The throw is amazing.
> Thank you Will. :goodjob:


You are very welcomed 




Mr_Light said:


> I have a Dorcy 3D and a Cree Star and am planning a straight star swap. I am planning on adjusting focus with copper spacers under the star and was wondering about how thick a spacer I might want to start with? Would 1/8th of an inch be a good starting place?


About 0.030" is the "normal" amount to raise the star, but I did mine for LifeNRA by the time-honored tradition of trial and error 

Will


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## ICUDoc (Jan 26, 2007)

wquiles said:


> the only reflector that I have used with a Cree that gives a nicer beam is the no-longer-available 45mm textured reflector from the HD45 that Don created. The smooth curvature plus the textured finish gives a great beam :naughty: .
> Will



Thanks Will! Great thread, great photos and a lovely lucid explanation of you method to estimate and obtain a drive current. The cut-down 27LTXR from the shoppe also gives an awesome beam. It isn't as big as the 45mm but is available, which is a bonus!
Thanks again


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## wquiles (Jan 26, 2007)

ICUDoc said:


> Thanks Will! Great thread, great photos and a lovely lucid explanation of you method to estimate and obtain a drive current. The cut-down 27LTXR from the shoppe also gives an awesome beam. It isn't as big as the 45mm but is available, which is a bonus!
> Thanks again


You are very welcomed David 

One of the projects I think it would be really cool, is to come up with a head large enough to house 3 of those 27L-XR reflectors. With the Cree or Seoul LED's, that would be a very nice combination of throw and spill 

Will


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## fishx65 (Feb 4, 2007)

Great thread!! I missed this one due to the Michigan hunting season but have been waiting for it for a long time. The big Dorcy has always been my longest throwing Lux and I've been wondering how a Cree would work in it. I'm a big time rookie when it comes to some of these mods. I've got a couple quick ?s.

1. How would this work if you just swapped the emitters?

2. Anyone know how it stacks up to the M1 and D-mini?

Thanks, FishX65


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## wquiles (Feb 4, 2007)

fishx65 said:


> 1. How would this work if you just swapped the emitters?


It will not be at the right focus. I already tried that to start with. You have to raise the LED about 0.030 mills or so 





fishx65 said:


> 2. Anyone know how it stacks up to the M1 and D-mini?


I have no idea what those are :candle: 

Will


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## LifeNRA (Feb 4, 2007)

I have the D-mini also.

The modded Dorcey is brighter and out throws the D-mini. That is really saying something about the Dorcey because the D-mini out throws everything else I have.


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## Hallis (Feb 4, 2007)

Very nice work Will. Very nice indeed. Definately got increased throw out of that one.

Shane


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## fishx65 (Feb 4, 2007)

Wquiles, What I meant was, how would the cree work with the stock Lux electronics? Would it be as bright as the one you created? Again, I'm a rookie but I think I can handle the emitter swap and height adjustment but wouldn't trust myself screwing around with the circuit board. One level would be fine by me.

Thanks, FishX65


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## wquiles (Feb 4, 2007)

Hallis said:


> Very nice work Will. Very nice indeed. Definately got increased throw out of that one.


Thanks Shane 





fishx65 said:


> Wquiles, What I meant was, how would the cree work with the stock Lux electronics? Would it be as bright as the one you created? Again, I'm a rookie but I think I can handle the emitter swap and height adjustment but wouldn't trust myself screwing around with the circuit board. One level would be fine by me.
> 
> Thanks, FishX65


There are no stock Lux electronics - it is simply a Direct Drive with a small resistor in series. The same value resistor works great for the Cree 

Will


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## fishx65 (Feb 4, 2007)

Got it! Thanks Will.


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## vinsanity286 (Feb 5, 2007)

My cree p4's should arrive any day now. I can't wait to drop one in my dorcy. Can anyone tell me how much current the cree will draw with the stock resistor? Thanks.


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## wquiles (Feb 5, 2007)

Between 550-600mA is what I would expect, based on the one I played with 

Will


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## vinsanity286 (Feb 5, 2007)

Thanks. I can't wait to mod this dorcy up.


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## vinsanity286 (Feb 7, 2007)

I just recieved my crees and went right to business. Took about 40 minutes. I just swapped the emitter onto the stock star and made some shims to bring the reflector back to the cree. WOW. much bright spill and throw throw throw. I am certainly impressed. 
The only thing that is confusing me is when I measure the current at the tail cap. I am only getting around 250ma. The light is quite a bit dimmer when running through the gauge so maybe it has too much resistance. I read somewhere on this forum that that is not the right way to measure current. What is the correct way? Thanks

Edit: I was using a multimeter that only has a 250ma scale, but the needle did not peg, it went to just under 250. Maybe I need to use a higher rated scale on a different multimeter?


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## wquiles (Feb 7, 2007)

vinsanity286 said:


> I just recieved my crees and went right to business. Took about 40 minutes. I just swapped the emitter onto the stock star and made some shims to bring the reflector back to the cree. WOW. much bright spill and throw throw throw. I am certainly impressed.
> The only thing that is confusing me is when I measure the current at the tail cap. I am only getting around 250ma. The light is quite a bit dimmer when running through the gauge so maybe it has too much resistance. I read somewhere on this forum that that is not the right way to measure current. What is the correct way? Thanks
> 
> Edit: I was using a multimeter that only has a 250ma scale, but the needle did not peg, it went to just under 250. Maybe I need to use a higher rated scale on a different multimeter?


Correct - you need a "better" multimeter that can read several amps 

Perhaps it is time to upgrade to an used Fluke? :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: 

Will


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## vinsanity286 (Feb 8, 2007)

Thanks for the offer but no thanks. I got a chance to use it outside at night and it is unbelievable. An aswome light that makes my others look sickly by comparison.


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## Monolith (Feb 8, 2007)

I've been driving mine at 900mA (was modded previously for a luxeon with a Wiz2). Nice easy mod. I lowered my reflector over the Cree using a larger o-ring between the reflector and lens - no other mods to the reflector and no shims under the Cree.


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## Mike abcd (Feb 8, 2007)

Has anybody tried an SSC P4 yet? I'm going to try that instead of the Cree and am interested in how the beam turns out.

I've got a couple of emitters on the way from photonfanatic along with .030 copper discs and Artic Silver adhesive from the Sandwich Shoppe.

Mike


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## Vikas Sontakke (Mar 5, 2007)

How do I take the reflector off? Does it just thread out from the front bezel?

Thanks,
- Vikas


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## wquiles (Mar 5, 2007)

Mike abcd said:


> Has anybody tried an SSC P4 yet? I'm going to try that instead of the Cree and am interested in how the beam turns out.
> 
> I've got a couple of emitters on the way from photonfanatic along with .030 copper discs and Artic Silver adhesive from the Sandwich Shoppe.
> 
> Mike


You know, I have not tried it yet, but given how much "reflector" friendly the Seoul is, my bet is that it would even work better than the Cree 





Vikas Sontakke said:


> How do I take the reflector off? Does it just thread out from the front bezel?
> 
> Thanks,
> - Vikas


You remove the head, and the reflector is held in place via a threaded ring which you can access from the back side of the head (long nose pliers is what I think I used), so it is pretty straight forward 

Will


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