# HDS Systems 1xAA and/or 2xAA ??



## Hobbs (Jun 21, 2010)

Henry, can you tease us with an ETA?


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## HDS_Systems (Jun 22, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

Hobbs,

I can tease you all night long.  But it is probably easier to tell you what I have already posted. We are planning a 2xAA battery compartment that will be compatible with our EDC Executive/Tactical (Ra Clicky) line of flashlights. It is entering production and should be available in a couple of months.

As with the R17670 battery compartment that proceeded it, we wanted to make sure the battery compartment design was solid before coming out with the other members of the family. I am sure you understand.

Henry.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jun 22, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

No 1xAA version?


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## fisk-king (Jun 22, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



the.Mtn.Man said:


> No 1xAA version?



If using the same head, spacing (or length) is probably the determining factor. Just guessing. 

Personally, I would be satisfied, so no purchases for me until it arrives (I.e. Buying more flashlights, at the moment I am content)


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## red02 (Jun 22, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

Any chance for an XPG?


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## rider (Jun 22, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



HDS_Systems said:


> Hobbs,
> 
> I can *tease* you all night long.  But it is probably easier to tell you what I have already posted. We are planning a 2xAA battery compartment that will be compatible with our EDC Executive/Tactical (Ra Clicky) line of flashlights. It is entering production and should be available in a couple of months.
> 
> ...



Wait, are you teasing us there?


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## tricker (Sep 14, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

back to life....where is it at


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## PaveHammer (Sep 14, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

Also, what are the other members of the family...?

I'm really hoping it's the 240t.


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## HDS_Systems (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

Tricker,

The wonders of machine shops and production... I think the shop has finally finished the pre-anodize operations and the tubes are going out for anodizing. Then there are the post-anodize operations and assembly left. We are probably still a few weeks out.

Henry.


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## pjandyho (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

Henry, I understand that these 2XAA tubes can't be used with Li-Ion as it would exceed the voltage range. Could it safely be used with 2X Energizer lithium AAs? If I am not wrong, each Energizer lithium AA starts out at 1.8 volts, and two makes it 3.6 volts. Is that within the operating range of the clicky? I am almost certain it's ok but just want to reconfirm as I have forgotten what is the operating voltage for your light engine.


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## derfyled (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



pjandyho said:


> Henry, I understand that these 2XAA tubes can't be used with Li-Ion as it would exceed the voltage range. Could it safely be used with 2X Energizer lithium AAs? If I am not wrong, each Energizer lithium AA starts out at 1.8 volts, and two makes it 3.6 volts. Is that within the operating range of the clicky? I am almost certain it's ok but just want to reconfirm as I have forgotten what is the operating voltage for your light engine.



I'll confirm it !

Yes, you can use it safely. Rembember that a freshly charged li-ion can be up to 4,2 V and it's supported by the circuit. No problem using lithium AA and imagine the runtime !


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## Henk_Lu (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



HDS_Systems said:


> Tricker,
> 
> The wonders of machine shops and production... I think the shop has finally finished the pre-anodize operations and the tubes are going out for anodizing. Then there are the post-anodize operations and assembly left. We are probably still a few weeks out.
> 
> Henry.



Well, I can wait for my 2xAA as I need a new "head" to buy with it. You know, it breaks my heart having bodies lay around without a head, and I actually have anything available... 

Another problem of mine currently is the lack of budget, but I'd be happy to buy my 240CE-2xAA by the end of... november! :devil:


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## Harry999 (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

Henry,

A few weeks is not too long to wait. At least the 17670 tubes that I should get this week from the UK supplier will get some use before I swap over on the 170T Clicky and the High CRI Clicky! :twothumbs

Seriously I think that the availability of 2xAA tubes will really help some people who were on the shelf about getting a HDS light. Now there really is no excuse.


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## kdaq (Sep 16, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



Harry999 said:


> Seriously I think that the availability of 2xAA tubes will really help some people who were on the shelf about getting a HDS light. Now there really is no excuse.


...XP-G and 1xAA? 

Seriously though, I'm in awe of the amount of praise that HDS receives. I'm sure that it's only a matter of time before I jump on the bandwagon!


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## red02 (Sep 16, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

Yup, single AA is when I'll bite. Otherwise I'll just go for 1xCR123, 2xAA is a little too long...


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## Colorblinded (Sep 16, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*

I would love a high CRI with both a 123 tube and a 2xAA tube.


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## jimmy1970 (Sep 16, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



Colorblinded said:


> I would love a high CRI with both a 123 tube and a 2xAA tube.


+ 1 - great combo!!!

James....:thumbsup:


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## the.Mtn.Man (Sep 16, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



kdaq said:


> Seriously though, I'm in awe of the amount of praise that HDS receives.


And every bit of it is deserved. They really are wonderful lights. Hold one in your hand and you know you're holding a quality product. Any misgivings I might have had about spending $150 on a flashlight evaporated the moment I picked it up.


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## shane45_1911 (Oct 27, 2010)

*Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*

I think I would love one of those in 1xAA, too! I know my Eneloops sure would.


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## fisk-king (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*

Hello,

Within the Clicky thread there has been talk (i.e. from Henry) of a 2AA Clicky.


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## Shikar (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*

My Duraloops await the 2AA HDS

Regards.


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## B0wz3r (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*

I always hear such great things on here about the Ra clicky's... However, I will never buy one because they're only 123 format. Now days, there is absolutely no advantage to 123's over AA's. Modern AA primaries have just as much mah, are more widely available, and cheaper than 123's. The voltage difference is also a non-issue if you're using li-ion rechargeables. 

If they offered a version that used 1x or 2xAA or 1x14500 and a 150 lumen (or so) high CRI emitter, I'd sign up right away.

No matter how great they are, I'll never buy one while they are 1x or 2x 123 format only.


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## eala (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*

The 2xAA bodies will be out very soon. The existing models will work with them at their existing ratings. I am on the edge of my seat.

eala


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## shane45_1911 (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*

I want a 1xAA.


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## Ishango (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*

I was looking into asking one for my birthday at the end of December. I really like what I've read about the Ra Clicky on here.

Though the C123A cells have kept me away from most lights (except for my Olight T10), since they are very expensive (perhaps rechargeables are better since they get re-used).

A 1xAA version would certainly be interesting, though I really want a Ra Clicky (even if it is with (R)C123A cells)


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## iacchus (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*



shane45_1911 said:


> I want a 1xAA.



There are plenty of great 1xAA lights out there for you to buy.
HDS just doesn't make them...


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## Kestrel (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*

I'll merge this new thread with the existing *HDS 2AA* thread and change the title slightly ...


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## Zeruel (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*



shane45_1911 said:


> I think I would love one of those, too! I know my Eneloops sure would.
> 
> Yea or nay?



More than a hundred voted Yea.


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## shane45_1911 (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



the.Mtn.Man said:


> No 1xAA version?


 
Oh, pretty please????????????


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## BBL (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*



iacchus said:


> There are plenty of great 1xAA lights out there for you to buy.


With the same UI as the HDS Clicky? I want to see one...


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## iacchus (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*



BBL said:


> With the same UI as the HDS Clicky? I want to see one...



I never said they would have the same UI. Still, plenty of options on the market for those who refuse to use a single CR123.


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## daveRN (Oct 27, 2010)

I have a 2xAA HDS flashlight....it's called a Novatac Classic!! UI almost identical to the RA...

http://www.novatac.com/downloads/data-sheets/20-0106B_Classic.pdf

-Dave


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## shane45_1911 (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: Any plan by HDS to make an AA clicky?*



iacchus said:


> There are plenty of great 1xAA lights out there for you to buy.


 
I know and I have some of them - BUT I WANT THIS ONE DAMMIT!!!!!!!!! 

Please make a 1xAA clicky. Please. PLEASE.


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## mossyoak (Oct 27, 2010)

daveRN said:


> I have a 2xAA HDS flashlight....it's called a Novatac Classic!! UI almost identical to the RA...
> 
> http://www.novatac.com/downloads/data-sheets/20-0106B_Classic.pdf
> 
> -Dave



but the build quality and durability are not even close.


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## Gaffle (Oct 27, 2010)

Solved! Buy a 170 custom, then buy 2AA body, and then purchase a High CRI head for the 123 body (if heads are ever sold separately that is). Awwww snap!:devil:


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## F250XLT (Oct 27, 2010)

mossyoak said:


> but the build quality and durability are not even close.




Exactly


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## derfyled (Oct 27, 2010)

mossyoak said:


> but the build quality and durability are not even close.




Well said.

The circuit is also far from being similar. Power regulation and current regulation are not at all the same...

I'm sure we could do a long list of differences...


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## daveRN (Oct 27, 2010)

Sorry to imply that a Novatac Classic is the same as an RA....I furgured most people would understand and appreciate the obvious differences. I mentioned the Novatac as an "HDS style" light which accepts AA batteries. I own both and, while quality is not the same, the Novatac is definately not bad for the price.


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## derfyled (Oct 28, 2010)

daveRN said:


> Sorry to imply that a Novatac Classic is the same as an RA....I furgured most people would understand and appreciate the obvious differences. I mentioned the Novatac as an "HDS style" light which accepts AA batteries. I own both and, while quality is not the same, the Novatac is definately not bad for the price.




I must admit the Classic might be one of the best AA light actually available.


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## HDS_Systems (Oct 30, 2010)

BOwz3r,

I will have to respectfully disagree with you if you are taking about alkaline AA batteries in comparison to Li-MnO2 CR123 primary batteries. If you believe the Duracell graphs on both batteries, the lithium batteries will out perform the Alkaline batteries at high power and especially at low temperatures. The published graphs do not address constant power drain in the 2 watt range for alkaline AA batteries.

However, at lower power settings and in warm temperatures, I fully agree that alkaline AA batteries (in sets of 2) can easily perform well and replace a lithium primary battery. They are certainly easy to get most places in the world.

We plan on offering a 2xAA battery compartment once the production problems we encountered have been solved.

There are no plans for a 1xAA battery compartment since the power supply will not work below 1.8V. Further, there is no point is using a 14500 rechargeable li-ion since rechargeable Li-ion CR123 will work just fine in that application. If you need longer runtimes, the R17670 is the next step up and not much physically larger than what a 1xAA would have been. Thus, there is no reason to develop and produce a 1xAA battery compartment.

Zeruel,

We keep thinking about a 1xAA flashlight, designed from the ground up for that purpose. There are a lot of issues - the most significant of which is selling enough to justify the development cost. Since we use American labor, our cost will always be significantly higher than the chinese lights. Without a good return on investment, such a project does not make sense.

Henry.


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## Zeruel (Oct 31, 2010)

HDS_Systems said:


> Zeruel,
> 
> We keep thinking about a 1xAA flashlight, designed from the ground up for that purpose. There are a lot of issues - the most significant of which is selling enough to justify the development cost. Since we use American labor, our cost will always be significantly higher than the chinese lights. Without a good return on investment, such a project does not make sense.
> 
> Henry.




O boy, me wanting a 1xAA is that obvious huh. 

I totally understand about making business sense since I'm running my own setup. No one's asking you to develop it at a loss. But I do understand CPF is only a minority of the audience you need to market to in order to see this getting a good return of the costs and effort put in. I will keep on wishing.... but you did get my heart pumping with the 1xAA prototype sent for beta testing (er... thread has been removed, I think). So I guess some wishes do eventually come true. :santa:


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 31, 2010)

Zeruel said:


> O boy, me wanting a 1xAA is that obvious huh.
> 
> .... but you did get my heart pumping with the 1xAA prototype sent for beta testing (er... thread has been removed, I think). So I guess some wishes do eventually come true. :santa:


 

Sorry about that . I was feeling in a devilish mood :devil:.


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## Zeruel (Oct 31, 2010)

Belstaff1464 said:


> Sorry about that . I was feeling in a devilish mood :devil:.



oo:


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## HIDblue (Oct 31, 2010)

HDS_Systems said:


> There are no plans for a 1xAA battery compartment since the power supply will not work below 1.8V. Further, there is no point is using a 14500 rechargeable li-ion since rechargeable Li-ion CR123 will work just fine in that application. If you need longer runtimes, the R17670 is the next step up and not much physically larger than what a 1xAA would have been. Thus, there is no reason to develop and produce a 1xAA battery compartment.
> 
> We keep thinking about a 1xAA flashlight, designed from the ground up for that purpose. There are a lot of issues - the most significant of which is selling enough to justify the development cost. Since we use American labor, our cost will always be significantly higher than the chinese lights. Without a good return on investment, such a project does not make sense.
> 
> Henry.


 
So, I guess the speculation about the 1xAA HDS/Ra Clicky was just that...speculation. Thanks for clearing that up Henry.

Any truth in the other rumors floating about that you'll be offering cerakoted HDS/Ra Clickies in the near future directly?


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 31, 2010)

Zeruel said:


> oo:


 


HIDblue said:


> So, I guess the speculation about the 1xAA HDS/Ra Clicky was just that...speculation. Thanks for clearing that up Henry.
> 
> Any truth in the other rumors floating about that you'll be offering cerakoted HDS/Ra Clickies in the near future directly?


 

Yep....that was just a joke thread by yours truly


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## Rocketman (Oct 31, 2010)

HDS_Systems said:


> ...We keep thinking about a 1xAA flashlight, designed from the ground up for that purpose. There are a lot of issues - the most significant of which is selling enough to justify the development cost. *Since we use American labor, our cost will always be significantly higher than the chinese lights.* Without a good return on investment, such a project does not make sense.
> 
> Henry.



Sir, you have my attention and my respect.


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## notsofast (Oct 31, 2010)

Zeruel you seem much to wise to have fallen for that thread.

But it shows you are "human", when we want something bad enough we loose some perspective.

Simular to the HDS Systems #12 thread where pjandyho asks Henry if the new line of cerekote lights will have the new UI. He seems to want it so bad that he doesn't consider the following.

Henry will announce when it is ready for production. Even if it is ready for production it may not make good business sense to release it now. 

The same goes for all those who indicate that the 200/240lm lights are imminent. And keep asking should they hold off on their next purchase.

We have to trust Henry to look out for HDS first and consider us third. His major market (who ever that is) is likely his second consideration.

We need HDS to be around tomorrow. I for one am not ready for "game over".

Sorry for the rant.


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## AMD64Blondie (Oct 31, 2010)

If there's ever a 2AA HDS RA Clicky..you guys are going to push me over the edge to buy one.


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## Zeruel (Oct 31, 2010)

Belstaff1464 said:


> Yep....that was just a joke thread by yours truly



Ahh... did I mention I also believe in karma? :devil:




notsofast said:


> Zeruel you seem much to wise to have fallen for that thread.
> 
> But it shows you are "human", when we want something bad enough we loose some perspective.



True that. Basically, I give people the benefit of the doubt till proven otherwise...


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 31, 2010)

AMD64Blondie said:


> If there's ever a 2AA HDS RA Clicky..you guys are going to push me over the edge to buy one.


 

It's not a matter of if but when (see post 40 in this thread) so start saving


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## pjandyho (Oct 31, 2010)

notsofast said:


> Zeruel you seem much to wise to have fallen for that thread.
> 
> But it shows you are "human", when we want something bad enough we loose some perspective.
> 
> ...


Ohhh... I did not know that you are the official spokesman for HDS. And who is looking out for our financial welfare?

If HDS were to come up with the cerakoted clickies, this is the best time to have the improved UI built-in so that we won't have to buy another new batch of clickies later on just because the newer UI was implemented? I am a firm believer of "If you want to do it, do it right".


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 31, 2010)

notsofast said:


> Even if it is ready for production it may not make good business sense to release it now.
> 
> The same goes for all those who indicate that the 200/240lm lights are imminent. And keep asking should they hold off on their next purchase.
> 
> ...


 

I agree. I imagine the dealers wouldn't be too happy if Henry announced an upgrade of the UI or emitter without having a chance of getting rid of their old stock. 

I don't let the rumours of upgraded emitters or UI or new models keep me from making a new purchase. As long as the light meets my lighting needs at this point in time, it will continue to meet my needs even after new upgraded models are introduced. Who even knows when or if they ever will be released. Even if you do wait for the new model, there will always be something newer and better in the horizon. If I felt that way, I would never have been able to pull the trigger on a Plasma TV or a computer.


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## Harry999 (Oct 31, 2010)

I also agree. I am waiting for the 2xAA tubes to be available at which point I will be ordering 2 tubes to use with my 170T Clicky and one of my 100 CRI Clickys. 

I also intend to buy another 170T Clicky with a 2xAA tube as a custom. Would I prefer it if 200 or 240 version was available? Absolutely! However, I need another tactical version before the end of the year so I will purchase what is available at that point.

When and if higher lumens tactical or High CRI models become available then I will get one immediately. Sometimes you can be waiting for the next best thing and in the meantime miss the benefit and enjoyment of what is available now.


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## notsofast (Oct 31, 2010)

pjandyho said:


> Ohhh... I did not know that you are the official spokesman for HDS. And who is looking out for our financial welfare?
> 
> If HDS were to come up with the cerakoted clickies, this is the best time to have the improved UI built-in so that we won't have to buy another new batch of clickies later on just because the newer UI was implemented? I am a firm believer of "If you want to do it, do it right".



Sorry if I upset you that was not my intention Andy. 

I don't profess to be a spokesman for HDS and from what I have read Henry is the only spokesman for the company. He did announce that they would include the cerakote treatment in the line of HDS products. I think the best time for the improved UI is when it best for the company. 

We all are responsible for our own financial welfare. I don't expect Henry to manage my money or my purchasing decisions.


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## Lucciola (Oct 31, 2010)

*Re: HDS Systems 2AA . . .*



Colorblinded said:


> I would love a high CRI with both a 123 tube and a 2xAA tube.


 
+1! :thumbsup:

For the time being I use a Quark AA² tactical neutral white with an extra 1xAA tube and a 123 tube is on the way.

I am perfectly happy with it, but in German we would say "the better is the enemy of the good". 

I'll use this light until I have the funds together to lift my well-to-do civic combo to the aristocratic level of HDS. :naughty:

Lucciola


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## Harry999 (Oct 31, 2010)

Lucciola

You will be impressed when you finally get your HDS lights. For a light that you have absolute confidence in the HDS is my choice with Surefire as a back up...

I have the Quark set up similar to your tactical set up but mine are based around the regular version head. I mainly use the single AA format. To be honest the main thing that sold me was the 0.2 lumen moonlight mode which I only started to appreciate when I used the moonlight mode on my Ra Twisty. 

I still use the Quark AA regular and that is because it is lighter than a CR123 HDS light so that it is light enough to hang from my neck wallet. It has similar flexibility although not the same ease of use in terms of accessible levels as the HDS lights. A Neutral white regular head is shipping to me now followed shortly by the new Quark XP-G S2 in AA format. That will upgrade my Quark AA light.

It is unlikely from what Henry has said that there will be an AA single cell HDS light so for me the complimentary AA light to my HDS lights is the Quark AA. I think there will still be a place in your new 'aristocratic' hierarchy for a humble Quark AA. :thumbsup:


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## Lucciola (Oct 31, 2010)

Harry999 said:


> I think there will still be a place in your new 'aristocratic' hierarchy for a humble Quark AA. :thumbsup:


 
Definitely! I won't stop using my Quark. Actually I considered buying at least one more Quark, because my current is so much in use and sometimes my wife and I would need one at the same time. So there is certainly a need for another light.

The announcement of a 2xAA setup for the HDS made me think about getting that one instead of a second or third Quark.

IMHO value for money is excellent of the Quarks and it really takes a flashaholic to spend the money for an HDS if the Quark can do the job (although the HDS is definitely worth the price tag - otherwise I wouldn't consider it). The bombproof construction which is designed for 110% relyability and the versatile UI are just so appealing to me. 

But having to feed a family I'll never be able to buy several HDS lights. So there is still a lot of use for my other lights. If I think about it I'll correct my above post: The HDS would not be a replacement but rather a complement to my Quark.

Lucciola


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## flatline (Oct 31, 2010)

Now that I've got a Ra Clicky, the only use I have for my Quark AA is as a travel light since I only travel with AA lights. A 2xAA tube for the Ra Clicky might turn the Quark into a shelf queen if it doesn't make the Clicky too big to EDC.

--flatline


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## bansuri (Oct 31, 2010)

Zeruel said:


> I give people the benefit of the doubt till proven otherwise...


That's the problem with trust, once gained it's easy to betray. 
(Once betrayed, difficult to regain!)

Control Panel > Edit Ignore List will take care of the AA prankster, 
Click on HDS Systems > Statistics > Find all Threads Started by HDS Systems will keep me up to date on *official* statements.

In the meantime my search for the perfect AA continues but I will be there for an HDS if the day ever comes.

:thumbsup:


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## B0wz3r (Oct 31, 2010)

Dear Henry,

I understand your argument below as to why you won't be doing a 1xAA body. However, while in my post above, although I didn't specifically make it clear, I have mentioned on this topic in other posts here that the AA size cells I reference in comparison to 123 format cells are L91's. Like any good CPF'er I never use alkalines for anything anymore, unless I'm stranded somewhere and don't have any other choice.

That said, given the state of current primary chemistry, I stand by my claim that the 123 format has no advantage over the AA format. Even when bought in bulk online, primary 123's are only comparable in cost to L91's (which can also be bought online at lower prices). Not to mention the greater availability, etc. Also, I believe it was Ti-force who posted a run time test of the AW li-ion cells and found the 14500's have more run time than the 16340's. I believe Marduke has also confirmed this fact if I am not mistaken. Finally, I only use L91's as backups. I rely exclusively on nimh's and li-ions in my lights; I do not like contributing to the toxic waste that goes into our environment, and yet another strike against the practice of buying lots of 50 or 100 123 primaries, at least in my book. ( ** remaining off-topic text deleted - let's not go there - Kestrel ** )

However, I am glad to hear you are planning a 2xAA tube. I far prefer 1x body designs for my EDC lights, but will be willing to consider one of your lights once I can use the AA format with them. This actually leads me to another question, which is whether or not your lights have any form of or resistance to EMF interference. I know all lights that use the body as part of the circuit inherently have some small amount, but one of the things I am interested in, is finding out if there are any lights out there that are resistant to this kind of thing.



HDS_Systems said:


> BOwz3r,
> 
> I will have to respectfully disagree with you if you are taking about alkaline AA batteries in comparison to Li-MnO2 CR123 primary batteries. If you believe the Duracell graphs on both batteries, the lithium batteries will out perform the Alkaline batteries at high power and especially at low temperatures. The published graphs do not address constant power drain in the 2 watt range for alkaline AA batteries.
> 
> ...


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## wacbzz (Oct 31, 2010)

B0wz3r said:


> This actually leads me to another question, which is whether or not your lights have any form of or resistance to EMF interference. I know all lights that use the body as part of the circuit inherently have some small amount, but one of the things I am interested in, is finding out if there are any lights out there that are resistant to this kind of thing.



Belstaff1464 will be chiming in shortly to provide you with the exact post number that will answer your question. 

Or, you could use the search function. :naughty:


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## Swedpat (Oct 31, 2010)

I like this. I was going to soon pull the trigger for an RA Clicky High CRI, but if I got it right there will soon be an optional 2AA tube so I can alternate between 2AA and CR123 with the same head? In that case I will wait a while. 

Regards, Patric


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## HDS_Systems (Oct 31, 2010)

BOwz3r,

Per our web site (FAQ), our lights have passed the CE electrostatic discharge and EMI tests. Everything is buried in a very low impedance Faraday cage and should essentially be immune to any RF field you will survive.

Henry.


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## wacbzz (Oct 31, 2010)

HDS_Systems said:


> BOwz3r,
> 
> Per our web site (FAQ), our lights have passed the CE electrostatic discharge and EMI tests. Everything is buried in a very low impedance Faraday cage and should essentially be immune to any RF field you will survive.
> 
> Henry.



What he said. 

What you were looking for was here from part 11...


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## B0wz3r (Oct 31, 2010)

Thank you both very much for the information. This will be another good reason for me to consider once the 2xAA body is available.

Also, with respect to the search, I'm sorry for not doing so, but today is Halloween and with two kids, a niece and in-laws on the way, last minute decorations to take are of, plus my regular family responsibilities to boot, today has been a rather hectic day and I've only been able to stop in here for short periods at a time to catch up on the threads I've been following lately.



HDS_Systems said:


> BOwz3r,
> 
> Per our web site (FAQ), our lights have passed the CE electrostatic discharge and EMI tests. Everything is buried in a very low impedance Faraday cage and should essentially be immune to any RF field you will survive.
> 
> Henry.






wacbzz said:


> What he said.
> 
> What you were looking for was here from part 11...


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## tandem (Oct 31, 2010)

Apologies in advance for what ultimately will turn out to be a long and barely coordinated stream of thoughts...



HDS_Systems said:


> I will have to respectfully disagree with you if you are taking about alkaline AA batteries in comparison to Li-MnO2 CR123 primary batteries.



It makes no sense to compare Li-MnO2 CR123 to AA format alkaline primaries. It would be better to compare them instead to AA format lithium chemistry primary cells like the Energizer L91 familiy (Li-FeS2) also available broadly at the retail level.

While not an apples to apples comparison, it would also be useful to compare 123 format lithium primary and li-ion rechargeable chemistries to AA format lithium primaries and NiMH rechargeable chemistries. 

Ultimately the real question is whether one can design a light around the AA (in any chemistry) that will provide the output HDS product buyers will accept? The answer is yes, because to a large extent it is already being done.

Even today the single AA powered Zebralight SC51 can produce as much output as any HDS light and considerably more output for longer runtimes than most if not all HDS models -- not merely on burst but continuous and well-regulated output over those runtimes. Prior to the SC51 introduction the Fenix LD10R4 (1xAA) was the product class leader and was in the same general ballpark producing high outputs for long, regulated, runtimes. As they are known for stable flat output-runtime curves, I've no doubt Fenix will leap frog Zebralight's achievement in short order, such is the way of progress. Others will join in too.

Both lights, we must note, can extract very useful performance out of a single lowly alkaline AA cell. The two models I've cited have been engineered around the AA format, specifically targeting alkaline, NiMH and lithium primary cells.

Clearly we are at an intersection of LED performance and common cell technology that allows light designers to extract a lot of useful output and package the solution into a very small form factor. The Fenix is ~ 4 inches in length; the Zebralight with its side mounted control switch is even shorter at 3.15 inches. Both lights retail for between ~55 and 64 USD respectively.

Thus it is possible to engineer a light with very good output and runtime characteristics using today's AA NiMH cell technology and even on alkalines acceptable ooutput and runtime can be achieved. Surely it is possible to engineer a high quality light that shares those characteristics. 

I think these characteristics - safety, capability, ubiquity, price performance - are what BOwz3r is getting at in suggesting that AA cells can displace 123A cells.



> We keep thinking about a 1xAA flashlight, designed from the ground up for that purpose. There are a lot of issues - the most significant of which is selling enough to justify the development cost. Since we use American labor, our cost will always be significantly higher than the chinese lights. Without a good return on investment, such a project does not make sense.



Something to consider is whether a business can afford not to acknowledge a market segment growing in popularity.

Is there market enough to pay for the engineering costs? I wonder if your current product line already answers the question in the affirmative.

There are plenty of high performing CR123 based lights out there that retail for much less than a HDS light, yet HDS remains busy with orders. I do not believe that marketing a light in the single AA format would be any different. People will pay the $35+ plus delta if they are getting features or quality unavailable elsewhere.

Could it be that 1xAA represents an opportunity not just to design a new circuit for 1.2 volts supplies but for 1.2V through 4.2V, in effect covering the gamut from NiMH and alkaline AA cells to CR123 primaries and li-ion rechargeable cells in all formats. Prospective buyers get one light family but different runtime and/or output characteristics depending on their personal preferences for power. Optional alternative cell tubes allow for lego flexibility. Sounds ideal to me. I'd buy in, completely.

1xAA is a very popular light format, arguably it may be the fastest growing segment in EDC-centric light development given LED advances. There is of course plenty of competition among makers, and precious little differentiation between makes, but that situation is exactly as it is in the 123A format space. 

HDS makes a very popular light for the 123A format and is successful even given the broad competition in that format. It only stands to reason that a marriage between your design and engineering capabilities and the ubiquitous AA format would be a long and happy union.

Aside from ubiquitous supply of AA cells, what would a designed for 1xAA product give HDS users and prospective clients that they can't get in the 123A format?


In an EDC friendly shape, access to ubiquitous AA format cells of any type, alkaline primaries, NiMH rechargeable, lithium primaries, potentially even rechargeable li-ion if such a light would support all common and enthusiast-centric chemistries.

In an EDC friendly shape, access to intrinsically safe rechargeable chemistry - namely NiMH. Currently HDS offers no light with this property.

In an EDC friendly shape, access to a low temperature rechargeable solution that performs better than li-ion. NiMH performance in low temperatures is vastly superior to alkaline cells and arguably better than li-ion.

True, I may be overly focussed on li-ion safety but that is because I am a big proponent and user of rechargeable cells for ecological and economic reasons. Li-ion cells might be appealing to and suitable for knowledgeable enthusiasts, but they are not intrinsically safe which is why loose li-ion cells and third party chargers are not commonly sold at general retailers -- they simply are not consumer items. 

In stark contrast, excellent quality NiMH rechargeable cells and decent chargers can be bought at very reasonable prices at retailers ranging from drug stores to the big box shops, and not just in the U.S. but world wide. 

AA powered lights can be paired with an intrinsically safe rechargeable power system. Most 123A powered lights are not, primarily because light makers are for the most part leaving it up to the users to be their own systems integrators. Consequently there are users out there with cells and chargers that probably shouldn't be paired with any light!

Availability and interest in safe and "green" rechargeable solutions is growing. In my mind 1xAA represents a greater opportunity to broaden the appeal of the HDS product line than 2xAA. Is the opportunity great enough to justify the incremental start up costs?


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## John_Galt (Oct 31, 2010)

For everyone who's asking for a 1xAA, why don't you buy a 17670 battery compartment, and make/have made a delrin spacer and magnet combination.

Then use 14500 Li-ion's. Or, y'know, just use 17670's.


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## tsl (Oct 31, 2010)

John_Galt said:


> For everyone who's asking for a 1xAA, why don't you buy a 17670 battery compartment, and make/have made a delrin spacer and magnet combination.
> 
> Then use 14500 Li-ion's. Or, y'know, just use 17670's.


 
The thought may be that a 1xAA format will be a slimmer, more EDC-friendly version of the Clicky.


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## bansuri (Oct 31, 2010)

John_Galt said:


> For everyone who's asking for a 1xAA, why don't you buy a 17670 battery compartment, and make/have made a delrin spacer and magnet combination.
> 
> Then use 14500 Li-ion's. Or, y'know, just use 17670's.



What you are describing is _not_ a AA light.
The light in question *would* be able to use standard Alkalines @1.5V, NiMH @ 1.2V, and 14500 Li-Ions @4.2-3.7V. 
The light *could* be smaller in diameter, thus more "pocketable".

The AA is a standard product from many light manufacturers for the many reasons that have been gone over so. many. times.

*If* HDS made one you could use it as a hammer with which to pulverize other AA lights before sending them to the recycling center.

When everyone's cases of CR123s are finally gone you could use your HDS-AA to bash the heads of teh zombies in and the last thing they'll see is the High CRI tint flying towards their face being driven by a salvaged AA battery from a remote control. (or in a pinch a AAA with a piece of tin-foil behind it).

Happy Halloween! 

:eeksign:


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## nbp (Oct 31, 2010)

Hey, guess what? There isn't a 1xAA HDS light. When there is one, Henry will let us know. I don't see what people think is going to be accomplished by continually badgering him about it. He's aware of what a AA battery is. If he wants to make a light you can put one in, he will. :shakehead


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## DM51 (Oct 31, 2010)

I think one or two of you may not have read post #40 above...



HDS_Systems said:


> *There are no plans for a 1xAA battery compartment *since the power supply will not work below 1.8V. Further, there is no point is using a 14500 rechargeable li-ion since rechargeable Li-ion CR123 will work just fine in that application. If you need longer runtimes, the R17670 is the next step up and not much physically larger than what a 1xAA would have been. Thus, *there is no reason to develop and produce a 1xAA battery compartment.*


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## fisk-king (Oct 31, 2010)

The last two points sums it up nicely (i.e. Dm51 & NBP).
Let's all be happy with the 2AA & move on.


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## :)> (Oct 31, 2010)

HDS_Systems said:


> BOwz3r,
> 
> Per our web site (FAQ), our lights have passed the CE electrostatic discharge and EMI tests. Everything is buried in a very low impedance Faraday cage and should essentially be immune to any RF field you will survive.
> 
> Henry.


 
You have to be kidding me!!! Your lights rule Henry!!!


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## wacbzz (Oct 31, 2010)

nbp said:


> Hey, guess what? There isn't a 1xAA HDS light. When there is one, Henry will let us know. I don't see what people think is going to be accomplished by continually badgering him about it. He's aware of what a AA battery is. If he wants to make a light you can put one in, he will. :shakehead



Interesting...

Just to state pure fact, the "badgering" that you speak of has moved more than one very good light manufacturer on this forum to produce those very lights that they were badgered about...

A little more clearer...repeated requests for lights on this very forum have resulted in those exact lights.

So much for "badgering" huh?


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## carrot (Oct 31, 2010)

wacbzz said:


> Interesting...
> 
> Just to state pure fact, the "badgering" that you speak of has moved more than one very good light manufacturer on this forum to produce those very lights that they were badgered about...
> 
> ...


I've always liked badgers.


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## nbp (Oct 31, 2010)

wacbzz said:


> Interesting...
> 
> Just to state pure fact, the "badgering" that you speak of has moved more than one very good light manufacturer on this forum to produce those very lights that they were badgered about...
> 
> ...



To state pure fact, Henry often consults us on new ideas for future versions of lights, and uses our perspectives in his designs. That's remarkable in itself. So let's not whine too much, eh? 

Henry has undoubtedly been making lights longer than those manufacturers you mentioned, please give the guy some credit. He knows how to run his business. He knows how to make phenomenal lights. And he knows you want a AA light. If and when it makes sense to develop one, he will. Simple as that. No need to get your undies in a bunch about it. 

For those who feel rattling off a gazillion facts about the capabilities of the AA cell or modern electronics will somehow persuade him, read some of Henry's articles. You're not telling him anything he doesn't already know.


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## JA(me)S (Oct 31, 2010)

HDS_Systems said:


> There are no plans for a *1xAA battery compartment* since the power supply will not work below 1.8V. Further, there is no point is using a 14500 rechargeable li-ion since rechargeable Li-ion CR123 will work just fine in that application. If you need longer runtimes, the R17670 is the next step up and not much physically larger than what a 1xAA would have been. Thus, there is no reason to develop and produce a *1xAA battery compartment*.
> 
> 
> We keep *thinking *about a 1xAA flashlight, *designed from the ground up for that purpose*. There are a lot of issues - the most significant of which is selling enough to justify the development cost. Since we use American labor, our cost will always be significantly higher than the chinese lights. Without a good return on investment, such a project does not make sense.
> ...





DM51 said:


> I think one or two of you may not have read post #40 above...



DM51,

I believe Henry was saying there will be no 1xAA compartment for the existing HDS EDC. 

However, he is thinking about an entirely new 1XAA light if the market justifies the development costs. Hence, the badgering...


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## Zflashlight (Oct 31, 2010)

bansuri said:


> What you are describing is _not_ a AA light.
> The light in question *would* be able to use standard Alkalines @1.5V, NiMH @ 1.2V, and 14500 Li-Ions @4.2-3.7V.
> The light *could* be smaller in diameter, thus more "pocketable".
> 
> ...


Almost perfectly aligned with what i was thinking. I'm a newbie if you will, so i may make sense or not in the following lines 

The difference is that you're happy with an AA size only light, and i was thinking on Clicky exactly the same as now (with a different driver or whatever) and it would have an AA extender to use AA's+14500 like the Jetbeam RRT-0 does. Maybe that's what you're saying also?
Or if that somehow affects the waterproof'iness of the thing, go with the Javelin/Quark/etc. route, and just offer an AA body to use instead of the CR123 body.

It's almost an obsession for me now, but to be perfect, it would need a P60 type of thing going on!
I mean if the host is that good, i would like to keep using the same one and just upgrade the LED+driver. Why the hell would i want to pile up Clickies if all i want is the LED upgrade?

It may not happen, but i just wanted to dump this post anyway. I like what i see and read about the HDS products, but until now it was a no no only because of the CR123 batteries. 
I'll check the 2xAA version in any case, no doubt!


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## nbp (Oct 31, 2010)

Yeah, if you want AA powered P60 host, then the HDS line isn't really for you. 

That said, I would encourage you to get one and try it out, you might be surprised. :naughty:

Worst case, you put it up on the MP and get back what you paid for it.



EDIT: Look, post 1,111 for me! That's a cool number! Also scary that I have so many.  The first 500 took awhile, the last 611 went really fast. :shakehead:


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## DM51 (Nov 1, 2010)

JA(me)S said:


> Henry ... is thinking about an entirely new 1XAA light if the market justifies the development costs.


Fair point; however, here is the best and most obvious response:



nbp said:


> Henry ... knows you want a AA light. If and when it makes sense to develop one, he will. Simple as that.


People won't be able to accelerate the process by going on and on about it.


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## mossyoak (Nov 1, 2010)

nbp said:


> Hey, guess what? There isn't a 1xAA HDS light. When there is one, Henry will let us know. I don't see what people think is going to be accomplished by continually badgering him about it. He's aware of what a AA battery is. If he wants to make a light you can put one in, he will. :shakehead



Thank you. 

my logic has always been that if you could afford a HDS, you could afford the damn batteries. 
and there is nothing a alkaline or lithium AA primary can do that a 123 lithium primary couldnt do better


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## shane45_1911 (Nov 1, 2010)

tandem said:


> what would a designed for 1xAA product give HDS users and prospective clients that they can't get in the 123A format?


 
I have built my empire around AA Eneloops. 'Nough said.



> In my mind 1xAA represents a greater opportunity to broaden the appeal of the HDS product line than 2xAA.


 
ABSOLUTELY.


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## carrot (Nov 1, 2010)

mossyoak said:


> Thank you.
> 
> my logic has always been that if you could afford a HDS, you could afford the damn batteries.
> and there is nothing a alkaline or lithium AA primary can do that a 123 lithium primary couldnt do better


My logic extends beyond that: if you're too cheap to invest in CR123s or the one time purchase of a charger and lithium ions, then you're probably too cheap to buy the (premium) light that runs on them. Hence why I think the new Surefire AA has limited market.


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## nbp (Nov 1, 2010)

I just had a crazy thought on this topic I thought I'd throw out there. Note my posts above^^^^; I am not clamoring for a AA Clicky, nor do I think that one is in the pipeline. I believe what Henry tells us, and he tells us that there isn't any real plan for one. 

However, just to humor the badgers, here's a thought. What if you're 100% correct? What if you're so right about the demand for a AA clicky that Henry knows he could not satisfy customers needs without either lowering quality/customizability/some other trait HDS is known for, or increasing production capabilities and passing on the increased cost to customers? 

In this case, it still may not make good business sense to produce the light, even though there is demand for it. I'm not a production specialist, but I think that could happen, right? You could be right badgers, but still be wrong. If that makes sense..:thinking: 

Just a passing thought. :shrug:


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## shane45_1911 (Nov 1, 2010)

Zflashlight said:


> I'll check the 2xAA version in any case, no doubt!


 
I am sure that most of us that were hoping for a single AA will do the same.

The ergonomics of a 2xAA just don't scream "EDC" like a single AA does. For me anyway...


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## txmatt (Nov 1, 2010)

I'll be patiently waiting for the 2xAA release. I've got an early Twisty that is my favorite light. The Clicky has been tempting but isn't really different from the great light I already have. I have a thing for AA lights, though, so I'll almost certainly get a AA version. I'd be open to spending a little more for a 3-piece combo of the head and two bodies (CR123 and 2xAA).


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## tandem (Nov 1, 2010)

carrot said:


> My logic extends beyond that: if you're too cheap to invest in CR123s or the one time purchase of a charger and lithium ions, then you're probably too cheap to buy the (premium) light that runs on them. Hence why I think the new Surefire AA has limited market.



That bit of logic makes no sense in the face of the available evidence. From what I can tell, no one clamouring for a 1xAA HDS EDC light is doing so with the hopes of seeing a lower price point for the product line. I certainly am not.

Just to be clear, I fully expect to pay the same amount for a HDS EDC light in 1xAA format as I would in 1xCR123 format. Heck, I'd even pay a 10 or 20 dollar premium. I might even pay a 40 dollar premium if for example I were forced to buy the standard light and then add on an optional 1xAA tube, were the guts of the light designed for 1.2V supplies and up.

Cost isn't my objection at all. Size is somewhat an issue for me, as the 1xAA format can be made just that much more nice to carry in more places on ones person. But my primary objection over the 123A format is that there is no intrinsically safe, consumer friendly, ecologically sane, rechargeable format that can power the 123A centric HDS EDC light.

I believe that to be a limitation, not a beneficial feature, because for me rechargeable power issues can be a deal breaker:


I simply will not buy for my own self a light which can not be powered by a rechargeable cell

For my own self, I will use lithium ion cells where it makes sense. I would have a hard time winning an argument with myself that an AA NiMH rechargeable were not sufficient for an EDC light, because such a light can be bought that at least meets my lighting needs if not other desirable traits, today. Thus for the current product line I represent one additional customer and probably no more than one HDS EDC light every five years or so as LED technology advances.

For others, I will not gift a portable device requiring portable power that cannot be powered by a rechargeable cell for reasons of ecology and economy. It is my own experience that an EDC light gets used far more than is at first expected, and I believe many families are good candidates for AA and AAA rechargeable cells even before they acquire a good EDC light(s), again for ecological and economic reasons. 

For others, I will *not* gift a light which has as its only source of rechargeable power a lithium ion cell (of any chemistry). I can not be certain of how the light will be used or abused once it leaves my hands. I can not know if the light ends up in the hands of a child or in the hands of someone with no common sense. I can not be certain that the new owner will take appropriate precautions when charging cells or that the charger they employ takes appropriate precautions to avoid over charging cells. Few of my family, friends and colleagues own a digital multimeter and the knowledge and common sense to keep an eye on lithium ion rechargeable cells. 

For others, through gift giving or recommendations perhaps I might represent 4 additional customers this year alone for a 1xAA HDS quality light as I can think of at least that many family or friends that I'd like to give a high quality EDC-able light. Other opportunities for gift giving are likely to arise on an annual basis. Overall I think it safe to say that I could at minimum represent at least a purchase of one light a year if not more, were the rechargeable limitation as it pertains to me removed from HDS products.

In summary, I believe the market opportunity in 1xAA to be larger than the existing market in 1xCR123A (or 1x17670) because with 1xAA there are no safety roadblocks standing in the way of potential purchasers like me.

On the surface there appears to be no technical reason why a 1xAA light couldn't be produced by HDS. Lights with similar, or more powerful, output characteristics are popping up all over the place. What is needed is a business driver before the company could responsibly take the step of investing in a new platform to marry its renowned quality and feature set with the output that demonstrably can be obtained off 1xAA cells of all chemistries these days.

It is my sense that HDS has over the years incorporated or modified features based on user feedback. A lobbying effort for 1xAA powered lights is little different than lobbying for any other feature request.

Communicating with the company gives the company a sense of demand and urgency. Perhaps gathering statistics could be done more effectively and efficiently by means other than post by post in this forum, but the medium is what it is. I applaud makers like Henry who take the time to participate in CPF and stay close to what users, and prospective users, are thinking. 

Those that would like to see a 1xAA light emerge from HDS aren't badgering Henry but are communicating their sense of value of that power format. In doing so nothing is being taken away from folks that are quite content with their existing lights and the status quo official position of the company.


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## Captain Spaulding (Nov 1, 2010)

carrot said:


> I've always liked badgers.



me too! at least i did until I read this thread. :shakehead




mossyoak said:


> my logic has always been that if you could afford a HDS, you could afford the damn batteries.
> and there is nothing a alkaline or lithium AA primary can do that a 123 lithium primary couldnt do better


 
+2


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## shane45_1911 (Nov 1, 2010)

mossyoak said:


> my logic has always been that if you could afford a HDS, you could afford the damn batteries.


 
Please don't pretend to know anything about my financial situation. I find your comment to be absurd and mildly insulting.

It is NOT a case of affording batteries. I do however, have SIGNIFICANT resources tied up in AA Eneloops and the AA format in general. And that is where I will continue to spend my money - if that is ok with you.

I understand too that Henry has said that he is not offering a 1xAA option. That is his choice. My choice as a consumer is to let him know I would like one, if he should change his mind.

@ Tandem - I could not have said it ANY better myself. You may speak for me on behalf of my HDS 1xAA clickie desire any time you wish. :thumbsup:


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## mossyoak (Nov 1, 2010)

shane45_1911 said:


> Please don't pretend to know anything about my financial situation. I find your comment to be absurdly insulting.
> 
> It is NOT a case of affording batteries. I do however, have SIGNIFICANT resources tied up in AA Eneloops and the AA format in general. And that is where I will continue to spend my money - if that is ok with you.



Sorry to hear that you are sensitive about your financial situation. 
I'm really don't care if you tie up a "significant" amount of money in to AA rechargeables. You make it sound as though you've broke the bank with them. If you would like I'll spot you a twenty for some 123's then you could buy an HDS and realize how great a light it is.


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## shane45_1911 (Nov 1, 2010)

@ Mossy - I already know how great the light is. And I would like it even better in a 1xAA package.

'Round, round we go...


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## bansuri (Nov 1, 2010)

shane45_1911 said:


> 'Round, round we go...


That's the truth!

As for a 1xAA, I will take HDS off my list per the advice of the people here and keep my giant Clicky for camping and such.
Yes, I can afford the primary batteries.
Yes, I can afford the charger and Li-Ion batteries.
Just wanted to talk about a possible product from an American manufacturer that I like to support, which it appears is a no-no.
I manufacture knifes for industrial applications, we JUMP at any possibility to expand our market. Things are different for flashlights.
No need to pick apart my post, I won't be checking back here, this is a dead end.


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## iacchus (Nov 1, 2010)

bansuri said:


> That's the truth!
> 
> As for a 1xAA, I will take HDS off my list per the advice of the people here and keep my giant Clicky for camping and such.
> Yes, I can afford the primary batteries.
> ...



Geez, Henry says he has been thinking about it. He just hasn't decided if it would be worth it yet.
Don't take the vocal posters on this (or any) board as spokesmen for HDS.

I am sure if Henry decides it is the right move to go ahead and develop a 1xAA light, we will eventually see one of the best single AA lights on the market.
I doubt a handful of posters would pony up the development costs to get at their dream lights. I could be wrong. If I am, drop Henry an e-mail. I am sure he would like to know.


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## DM51 (Nov 1, 2010)

CLOSED.


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