# MC-E: 5C tint or WC,WH,WG tint



## sector_cleared (Nov 3, 2008)

I am wondering what you guys think about that. For my next project I wanna use the MC-E but not sure if I should go for the cold white Bin's like WC, WH, WG or for the neutral white Bin 5C.

Did anybody try the 5C till now? How is the color rendering?

I saw a tread with a triple MC-E setup with warm white 5A MC-E which looked pretty awesome but I don't find it anymore If someone knows which threat I'm talking about, please link it.


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## LukeA (Nov 3, 2008)

Any bin beginning with a number is warm white and (IMO) better.


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## sector_cleared (Nov 3, 2008)

Okay, maybe I should reword my question a bit:

The cold white tints are M-Bins with [email protected]
The neutral white tint is a K-Bin with [email protected]

Is the better color rendering due to the warmer tint worth the 15% loss in light output lumen-wise? Will I see better at night with a warmer tint?


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## phantom23 (Nov 3, 2008)

If you choose WH or WG instead of WC the answer is NO. WH is quite warm and has good color rendering.

PS. It's [email protected] for each die ([email protected]). [email protected] itself is misleading.


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## trout (Nov 3, 2008)

I dont know if this will help you but this is a beam shot from a one of these @ 700ma a bike light I am building 
MCE4WT-A2-0000-000M10 Cool white, 430 min 







and this is a beam shot from a triple of these 
MCE4WT-A2-WG0-K0-0-00001, Cool white, 370 min lumens,WG 






with the autumn leaves there are some nice colours there.


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## LukeA (Nov 3, 2008)

sector_cleared said:


> Is the better color rendering due to the warmer tint worth the 15% loss in light output lumen-wise? Will I see better at night with a warmer tint?



A 15% reduction in light output is imperceptible.


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## phantom23 (Nov 3, 2008)

See. WG instead of WC and you have nice colour and lots of light.


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## thegeek (Nov 3, 2008)

phantom23 said:


> If you choose WH or WG instead of WC the answer is NO. WH is quite warm and has good color rendering.
> 
> PS. It's [email protected] for each die ([email protected]). [email protected] itself is misleading.




It's 350mA at ~13 volts if wired in series. It is only misleading if you assume it to be wired in parallel.


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## saabluster (Nov 3, 2008)

sector_cleared said:


> Is the better color rendering due to the warmer tint worth the 15% loss in light output lumen-wise? Will I see better at night with a warmer tint?


It is absolutely worth the slight loss in lumens.


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## phantom23 (Nov 3, 2008)

I'm going to repeat myself - WH bin is quite warm and has the same lumens. It's great compromise.


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## thegeek (Nov 3, 2008)

phantom23 said:


> I'm going to repeat myself - WH bin is quite warm and has the same lumens. It's great compromise.




How many WH bin samples have you played with? I ask because the bin for WH covers a more broad range of tints than most other bins. Is there a visible difference in the tints within the bin


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## leeleefocus (Nov 3, 2008)

I have sampled a 5A tint and a WC tint and I have to say i love the 5A tint outdoors and will not be using my WC tint crees for any of my outdoor lights. The sacrifice in lumens is easily worth the better colour rendering i.m.o


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## 2xTrinity (Nov 3, 2008)

> I saw a tread with a triple MC-E setup with warm white 5A MC-E which looked pretty awesome but I don't find it anymore If someone knows which threat I'm talking about, please link it.


You are probably referring to my thread, which is actually three warm whie MC-Es (6# bin, not 5A). These are available from cutter. 

To answer your question, yes the warm and neutral bins are more than worth the reduction in lumens, even compared to the WH bin. Before the neutral white were available, the WH was my preferred bin by far, and they are still a major improvement over most of the other cool bins. However, I would still willingly give up 15% lumens to go from WH to 5A. 

Outdoors, this reduction in lumens will actually be offset somewhat by the fact that most objects you want to look at outdoors, such as trees and soil, tend to reflect longer wavelength light (eg green and red) significantly more than blue light. 

This post by Saabluster shows photos of the 5A (neutral white), 6C (what I'm using in my triple MC-E) and WH bins.

The 5A in real-world use most accurately replicates what I see under daylight of any high-power LED I've used. The warm 6A and 6C LEDs behave very similarly to hotwires, enhancing contrast outdoors by boosting the relative brightness of red and brown objects. Note that this is not more color-accurate, but may be preferable in some cases.

The 6C is my favorite emitter outdoors, the 5A is my favorite indoors. I'm using a 5A in my LF2x EDC. After the emitter swap (from a Q5 WC), it's now a lot easier to distinguish things like resistor color codes. 

I have replaced the LEDs in every light I regularly use with either 5A or 6C bins, despite the 15% lumen cut.


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## phantom23 (Nov 3, 2008)

Separate emitters from WH bin may vary, one of them is more yellow, another one slightly green. Some 5A are more yellow while the others are awfully brown.
I personally like 3A/WH/WG tints because I don't like discoloured objects. Incandescent light is great for yellow->brown colours but it's useless with green, blue, white/grey because makes them yellowish...
Look at 'trout's pictures, WG is really nice and very close do real daylight, there's no reason to suffer with 5A.


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## sector_cleared (Nov 3, 2008)

Okay, you guys convinced me :twothumbs

I will go for the neutral white 5C. It is a bit warmer than the 5A but the only one availiable at cutter at the moment.

Thank you 2xTrinity. It was exactly this thread I was searching for. Awesome light :twothumbs I also want to build a tri MC-E but in a 2D host with 3 LiIon C-Cells. What kind of reflector are you using there? Looks quite floody. I think of using the Boomerang SS but not sure yet.


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## StevelKnievel (Nov 3, 2008)

Having used almost all of the tints discussed so far for off-road mountain biking, I'm inclined to agree with 2xTrinity. There is a huge difference (to my eyes) between WH and the 5A or 6C tints. I'm using 6C MC-Es right now and the quality of light is far superior to my WH tinted lights. It's so much better that I don't miss the additional output from the WH lights at all. The 5A tint in saabluster's pictures seems like it would be really nice too, not quite as brown as the 6C.


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## 2xTrinity (Nov 3, 2008)

phantom23 said:


> Separate emitters from WH bin may vary, one of them is more yellow, another one slightly green. Some 5A are more yellow while the others are awfully brown.


I'm aware, I've used a fair quantity of both bins of emitters. Some of my 5As look brown on a white wall, but still perform fine in the real world. Likewise some of my WH's look totally green, yet still perform okay outdoors. 

One nice solution is to blend LEDs with different hues into arrays. a greenish WH is complemented very nicely by a brownish warm or neutral white cree.




> Look at 'trout's pictures, WG is really nice and very close do real daylight, there's no reason to suffer with 5A.


compared to any other emitters I've used, I find I can most easily distinguish color codes on electonics components such as resistors using 5A, even at relatively low intensity. With WH bin I have a hard time distinguishing brown/red/orange, with incan or warmer LEDs I have a hard time distinguishing violet/blue/gray.

for something like a bike light or an arary with multiple emitters, what I believe would be absolutely ideal would be a mix between a yellow-greenish WG or WH, and a brownish 6# emitter. Overall efficiency would be somewhat better than a neutral emitetr by itself, and color would be teh best of both worlds.


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## gillestugan (Nov 4, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> Outdoors, this reduction in lumens will actually be offset somewhat by the fact that most objects you want to look at outdoors, such as trees and soil, tend to reflect longer wavelength light (eg green and red) significantly more than blue light.



This effect may be reduced by the fact that the human eye response to warm colours in low light conditions is not as good as for cold colours. 
This is because the rods in the eye, which are used in scotopic vision, is most responsive to colder light. 

A 3XMC-E may not be a low light condition though, lol.


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## 2xTrinity (Nov 4, 2008)

gillestugan said:


> This effect may be reduced by the fact that the human eye response to warm colours in low light conditions is not as good as for cold colours.
> This is because the rods in the eye, which are used in scotopic vision, is most responsive to colder light.


If the goal is reproducing the way things appear under daylight (where our eyes have less relative sensitivity to blue light), then a slightly warmer temp will produce more accurate looking results for this exact reason. Admittedly this isn't the same as apparent brightness.

If the goal is taking advantage of night vision in order to see using an infinitesimal amount of light, I can actually see amazingly well with 1/3rd lumen from my LF2x on "low", enough to hike on a moonless night, for example. Both cool and neutral emitters will work in this case, and you're right that warm emitters aren't as effective lumen-for-lumen. 

Of course, with light output this low, talking sacrificing efficiency 15% or more to use a neutral white is almost completely a moot point when runtime is measured in weeks in both cases.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 4, 2008)

I've got to say I really feel lucky to be part of this forum and to be able to read posts like this one. I'm one who is very willing to give up a little apparent output for light more pleasing to my eye and hope that warm tints become the norm and not the exception. Love being able to see by the light of the moon or aurora, but if I pull out a light I want it to present me with pleasant tones and I'm willing to pay for it.


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## Hack On Wheels (Nov 4, 2008)

If I'm not mistaken, the colour temperature of daylight tends to be around 5700K. The WH tints should be very close to this... so wouldn't this mean that WH or similar would actual be closer to daylight than the warm white tints? Also, at night, the ambient colour temperature will be quite cool, and our eyes will be used to that, so with something like the WH tint as opposed to the WC could actually be a great tint for the conditions, no?

Granted, I don't really know anything about this apart from what I've read and what would seem logical, so please correct me if I have anything wrong...


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## leeleefocus (Nov 5, 2008)

It's easy to look at the numbers and figures and try and find an LED that matches the numbers that the sun gives but in use I've found that this does not work.

All i know is that my 5A tint absolutely kills all my LEDS for temperature and colour rendering when used outdoors.

I have a selection of warm whites and cool whites in luxeon and crees and the 5A beats them all.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 5, 2008)

Where can we get the Q3 5A and how much are they? I want to put one in a couple lights and if I like them as much as I think I will then I'll put them in everything.


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## J.D. (Nov 22, 2008)

leeleefocus said:


> It's easy to look at the numbers and figures and try and find an LED that matches the numbers that the sun gives but in use I've found that this does not work.
> 
> All i know is that my 5A tint absolutely kills all my LEDS for temperature and colour rendering when used outdoors.
> 
> I have a selection of warm whites and cool whites in luxeon and crees and the 5A beats them all.


+ 1 here
just got my Dereelight C2H 5A Q3 - best tint i´ve ever seen.
And i've some WC, WG, WH tints, as said, 5A beets it all

By the way - i also have a 5C Q2 - which is noticeable warmer.
I like the 5A more...


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