# Updated -(1)- 10th April - ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots



## DreamScape (Mar 10, 2006)

*ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

ROP Vs Mag85








Just though I’d share these beam shots with you all.

I’d sent my Mag85 3D over to Phil to play with.
Unfortunately the postman dropped it and damaged the switch.
The switch was pushed forward but he managed to sort it out.
Big Thanks to Phil for doing the Pics  :wave: 
I just put them together for better comparision.

The contenders for comparisons are:

Phil’s ROP 2D Black Maglite History & Info on the ROP Here 
Borofloat Lens
MOP Reflector large hole
High ROP bulb PR
Modamag Battery Holder 6AA
Fully Charged CBP 1650’s
Spring Mod to reduce resistance

My Mag85 3D Black Maglite What is a Mag85 Here 
Borofloat Lens
MOP Lens small Hole
WA1185 Bulb Bi Pin
FM Battery Holder 9AA
Fully Charged CBP 1650’s
Kiu Socket
ProGolded all Contacts

All photos.

Camera:	Minolta DImage 5
ISO: 800
Shutter: 4 sec
Aperture	f/8

No local lighting other than lights off in the distance and light pollution on the horizon from local town.

So, even though these have MOP's they can still throw :rock: 

Some More below Enjoy :naughty: 



 






*OK UPDATED -(1)- 10th April 2006*









*A larger version HERE 3072 x 1730 1MB*

Just though I’d share some more beam shots with you all as promised.

The contenders for comparisons are:

Mag85 NEW 3D Black Maglite
Borofloat Lens
MOP Lens Large Hole
WA1185 Bulb Bi Pin
FM Battery Holder 9AA
*Fully Charged Sanyo 2500’s*
Kiu Socket
ProGolded all Contacts

Mag85 OLD 3D Black Maglite
Borofloat Lens
MOP Lens small Hole
WA1185 Bulb Bi Pin
FM Battery Holder 9AA
*Fully Charged CBP 1650’s*
Kiu Socket
ProGolded all Contacts

My ROP 2D Black Maglite
Borofloat Lens
MOP Reflector large hole
High ROP bulb PR
FM’s Battery Holder 6AA
Fully Charged CBP 1650’s
No Further Mods this time round. 

All Night shots:

Camera: Canon PowerShot A620
ISO: 400
Shutter: 2 sec
Aperture: F 2.8

No local lighting, all pics taken on a Tripod.
Torches held about 12 inches below Camera on the Tripods small platform.

Ok, these three different shots are at actual far to near distances and not zoomed!
Top column distance to tree - 150m or 492' or 164 yards
Middle column distance to tree – 93m or 305' or 102 yards
Bottom column distance to tree – 68m or 223' or 74 yards

*Analysis:*

These where taken in our local park at around 2330.
The wife and I went for a walk around in the day to recky some good spots.
This was the first time out doing night shots so bare with, they will get better.

First out was the Mag85 New (Sanyo's). I wanted to see the difference in the Sanyo 2500’s to the CBP 1650’s which is quite apparent. Even though the Mag85 Old (CBP) has the small holed reflector is was obvious the CBP pumped out the power.
When I get more time I will compare different reflectors and battery packs properly.
I set the camera's settings to be very similar to what I could see.
The Mag85 Old with the CBP’s was awesome to see in action compared to the M3T that had tagged along.






The ROP wasn’t as bright as the Mag85 on the Sanyo’s. Not far off though.


So, Just a reminder for myself how much of a difference the Mag85 and ROP is compared to the standard Mags!! :devil: 







I hope you have enjoyed :naughty:

Until next time...Take it Easy


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## offroadcmpr (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Nice pics, the ROP doesn't stand a chance!


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## jwl (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Dreamscape - Nice photos!:rock: I just finished my ROP and I have been looking at doing the Mag85. Now, I don't think I can resist.


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## Cliffnopus (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Great post, thanks

Cliff


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

I don't have any CBP NimH but have decent luck with Energizer and Rayovac.

My ROP doesn't seem as bright on 6AA as on 2x18650. This is purely my thoughts though as back-to-back testing is impossible for me.

My M*g85 doesn't have any low resistence mods, but still KILLS the ROP.

Thanks for doing the pics!!!!


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## thezman (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Nice. Thanks for the pics.

The MOP is impressive in the 85.


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## baylisstic (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

which MOP was that? Litho's or Modamag's?


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## cue003 (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Wow, I didn't know it was that much of a difference.

Curtis


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## Ledean (Mar 10, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Those are some great beamshots .
I must say that for a real simple mod the ROP is great .


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## andrewwynn (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

nice pics.. love the daytime comparison.. anybody have an 1111 to compare?.. the poor ROP doesn't stand a chance against the '85

-awr


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## lexina (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

nice shots! great of you to make 2 trips out to each of the spots so that we could have a day-time view!


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## Delvance (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Some nice pics there! Wow, crazy to see such a big difference between the two! Isn't the [email protected] rated at 1350 bulb lumens or so ? And the ROP is roughly 1150 bulb lumens. Find it hard to believe those 200 lumens can make such a difference ? Maybe the numbers are wrong :shrug: I got to build myself one of those somedays...after my current build.


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## Flakey (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

will the ROP high run off of 2 18650s? if so , for how long? great picks, i love the tight beam of the rop, im planning to make a small thrower using a 2c rop high with a smo reflector.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

I've heard 20-25 minutes bandied about.

My ROP is exactly like that. And it's pretty bright!

It has a big hole SMO, and even though darn bright my M*g85 still crushes it!


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## Fusion_m8 (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Hi guys:

If I have a standard 6C & 6D Maglite and can only convert one of them into a MAG85, 

1) which one will yield the best results(most lumens, farthest throw)?
2) will I still be able to use readily available C or D alkaline cells?


Thanks.


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## RoyJ (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



Fusion_m8 said:


> Hi guys:
> 
> If I have a standard 6C & 6D Maglite and can only convert one of them into a MAG85,
> 
> ...


 
At 3+ amps, I'm pretty sure alkalines are out of the question. You wouldn't want to anyway, it'll start dimming within seconds.

If you don't mind the size, I guess 8 C Ni-MH cells in the 6D mag should give plenty runtime.


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## andrewwynn (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

flakey got 8C into the 6C host.. yes you need to use NiMH.. but with 4-5AH you will get quite a long burn.. also.. 8C is under-driving an 1185, so the bulb will last forever (in hotwire time).. over 100 hr bulb life (but only about 440L.. normal Mag85 with 9 cells is more like 760L). 

The holy cow output for that size is running the Westinghouse 6V lamp from 8C NiMH.. we estimate about 1500+Lumen! it will run direct-drive.. and pulling about 6A, it should last about 40 minutes. send flakey a PM he's the one that made that combo.


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## missionaryman (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

thanks for the pics DS - It's so good when someone takes the side by side comparison shots of the hotwires. 

The MAG85 on the CBP's is definately brighter than mine on Energizers.



great photos - excellent work


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## Burnt_Retinas (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Just what I've been waiting for, a back-to-back ROP Vs 85.

Nice real-life outdoor shots. Great work,

Chris


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## pippyd (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Thanks to Dreamscape for lending me the awesome mag85 to compare it to the ROP, shame Royal Mail managed to do it some damage  The pictures above are at my local country park where I walk the dog every morning and evening, thought it would make a good location for some comparison shots.

For reference the 2nd row of pictures there is a white square that I'm focusing the beam on. This is a cricket screen on a nearby cricket pitch, it's probably something like 6m tall at a guess and is at the other end of the cricket pitch to the fence that surrounds it that you can see in the middle distance (not the stumps in the foreground).

My next build will be a mag85 once fivemega does some more batt holders (i missed the last batch as they sell so fast!) and it will be going in a HA-III body from one of the other GBs. I've got a LOP and MOP now so I'll also be able to do a few comparison shots in the same location.

My ROP had new CBP1650s in it for the photos but I had put them through a discharge/charge cycle in a BC-900 charger then used them a couple of times for 5-10mins in the ROP before a full discharge/charge for the photos.


Cheers, Phil


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## DreamScape (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

A big thanks to everyone for their kind words   
I just love this place :naughty: 




> baylisstic: which MOP was that? Litho's or Modamag's?


Yeah that's litho's MOP.



> Ledean: Those are some great beamshots .
> I must say that for a real simple mod the ROP is great .


Your absolutley right there. Phil is mighty impressed with the ROP.
With 3 batteries short to the Mag85 it certainly holds it's own.



> andrewwynn: anybody have an 1111 to compare?..


Unfortunatley no, but would be very interested to compare them.



> lexina nice shots! great of you to make 2 trips out to each of the spots so that we could have a day-time view!


I know, Big thanks to Phil Again :naughty:



> missionaryman: thanks for the pics DS - It's so good when someone takes the side by side comparison shots of the hotwires.
> 
> The MAG85 on the CBP's is definately brighter than mine on Energizers.


Those CBP 1650's just Kick A**
I have a set of sanyo Industrial 2500's they are nice for run time but no where near as bright as the CBP's.

Hi Phil thanks for chiming in. You fancy comparing a normal mag to they beasts?? Or would it not show up on the pics  :devil: 

Once again, :thanks: everyone for the big ups it makes it all worth while


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## Icebreak (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

This Mag85 is right. Actually it looks about is good as they get. This ROP is not performing optimally. A nicely overdriven ROP should not be spanked down quite as much as we see here by a nicely overdriven Mag85. I can tell it's not quite up to snuff, not because it doesn't compare well in brightness but by the color of the output. The sidespill on the concrete is orange. The sidespill of the 85 on the concrete is blue. That's probably the camera trying to tell us it's white.

Try 6 2/3 A 1200 mAh in line and the results will be different. The Mag85 is still going to win but the ROP will be whiter and brighter. I suspect but don't know that an FM holder would be helpful in increasing the performance of the featured ROP.

HotWire reports very widely, not only from the individual builders but also from individual builds from a builder as well. Ages ago, Hooked_On_Photons reported caluclated, not measured, bulb lumens for the BigD SLA (ROP) like this: 7 cells - 1029 lumens/ 8 cells - 1642 lumens using an FM holder. Don't know what batts but doubtful they were CB1650s. At one time KevinL reported that a ROP would beat an 1185. Then he detected some problems in his Mag85 so revised his assessment. Where bwaites reports that some ROPs are very close in output to a Mag85, I report that they are noticeably different. Not as different as we see in this presentation but still noticeably different.

Comparing the different reports we provide each other is all part of the discovery process that enables us to build successful HotWires using either "known good" solutions or new solutions...a community effort. This report is particularly well done.

pippyd -

Thanks for all the work it took to take these excellent beam shots. The method of comparison is very useful...outside, different locations, dimensional targets of different textures and colors. Outstanding!

Dreamscape -

Thanks for all the work it took to coordinate the effort to put these beam shots and presentation together.


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## Delvance (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Sounds good Icebreak, i personally am surprised by how much difference that ~200 lumens can make when we are near thousand output lumens. I have to say that my 3D rop, running off 4 18650 is definitely brighter than when i had a 2D 6xcbp1650 and modamag holder.

On a sidenote, sometimes when i play with my ROP, i turn on my low ROP and converge both the beams together, and it still doesn't account for the difference that the photos here are showing (ROP low and high together should be 1000+lumens easy).


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## CLHC (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Hey! I can "see" the light on these two. My eyes prefers the output of the Mag.85 as shown in your pictures. Nice! And thanks for sharing.


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## andrewwynn (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

I thought that the ROP was more like a 25W light.. the 1185 is more like a 35W light.. no way they will be 'neck n neck' unless i heard my facts wrong.. 25W puts it with the 1274, the 1111 and the 1331... though i'm sure if you have a cleaned up PR base and ROP it'll stomp an 1185 with weak batts and a PR base.. i did a calculation for somebody earlier that has 3.14A going to his 1185 lamp.. that works out to 520L out the front compared to about 780L if you have a fivemega holder and 1650s..

-awr


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## Icebreak (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



Delvance said:


> Sounds good Icebreak, i personally am surprised by how much difference that ~200 lumens can make when we are near thousand output lumens.


Thanks. I'm glad that made some sense. Maybe our surprise is because these two lights differ by much more than 200 lumens? That Mag85 _looks_ like 900+ torch lumens and that ROP _looks_ like 500 torch lumens. A ROP should be more like ~700+++ torch lumens.



Delvance said:


> I have to say that my 3D rop, running off 4 18650 is definitely brighter than when i had a 2D 6xcbp1650 and modamag holder.


I like the design of the construction of modamag's holder but I don't think all those EN plated tiny springs are conducive to current flow. Though the ElecktroLumen's Vs2 3toD holders are much weaker in construction, I think the flexible copper tabs are a better way to go.

Also, I can't remember how you did your 2X2X18650s but I'm thinking you did it with very little resistance. Since it's a double barrel it's likely there is negligible sag and @ 7.4V I would think it performs quite well.


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## Delvance (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Awr, 


The ROP on 7.2V works out to be ~29W (the lamp officially pulls 4A). In my ROP hi, with fresh charged cells, it pulls 4.1A+ and the V before load measures ~8.35V give or take. I've done your solderwick solder trick to the spring (would've done the rest but didn't have any usable thin wire lying around at home) and also contact cleaned every surface. It is also installed with a low loss reflector cammed reflector (the opening is so small using the cam action makes the reflector slightly touch the bulb lol). I'm pretty confident my ROP hi would be able to mix it with some nice [email protected] 85's. It'll probably lose out by a bit, but i'd hope not as much as shown in these beamshots. Runtime might be a different story though heh.

Icebreak,

Yeah perhaps the ROP here is under-performing and being compared against a top notch [email protected]. 

I'm not actually using any battery carriers. Just cells stacked, spring on bottom -'ve straight to tailcap. Top has a D size plate, with electrical tape around the sides to prevent shorting against torch body. Got to love 1 hour runtime for a ROP high and in a size of 3D...very light too, seeing as it's been bored and only holding 4 18650 LIons. I might get it cut down one day so i don't need the long connecting spring on the -'ve side...more compact too mhmm.


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## Delvance (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

I was just thinking, if people would really like...perhaps we can start a thread where a designated member of CPF with a high/top end [email protected] does a beamshot say...5 metres away, at a set exposure...then another member with a high/top end ROP does the same. Must be done on white wall etc, same exposure time...would that work ? Barring camera differences, it should give us and future modders/builders a good idea on how much difference really is between the two.


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## WhiteHot (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Somthing is wrong with the ROP. I have a Mag85 and a ROP. The Mag 85 is using a Kiu socket and 9x2300 Sanyos in a fivemega holder. The ROP is on 6x Sub-C NiCds. They are about the same. I did the shootout a while ago. See this thread:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=97026


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## Delvance (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Whitehot,

Don't forget the [email protected] here is using CBP 1650's, so it should be a little brighter than a [email protected] on Sanyo2300s, but i still agree i think there's something wrong with that ROP. 

Your beamshots in your linked thread, to my eye looks like the ROP is maybe even slightly brighter than your [email protected] (the underexposed photo)...at least it looks like the hotspot is brigther.


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## WhiteHot (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Ya, my Mag85 is not running as hot as it could be with those batteries. I think that my ROP mod is pretty representative of a typical ROP. The Sub-C's hold their voltage really well. That said, my Mag85 is at a disadvantage in my test for sure but I dont think that it is really that far off. I need to get my hands on some of the CBP's though. I really wouldn't expect that much of a visual advantage for either light but the edge should definately go to the Mag85 (even though it doesn't in my beamshots). I was just really surprised at the first beamshots from DreamScape since I know how much closer they should be.

One thing is for sure though. They are both pretty darn bright ;-)


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## wtraymond (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

I've got a really nice 2.5C ROP LE that has had all the low resistance switch mods done. I draws 4.2 amps from freshly charged 18650s. I also has UCL and old style MOP reflector.

I may drop by and visit AWR for a photo op. He's got the brightest '85 on the planet.

If my ROP loses the shootout I'll offer it up for sale!


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## Delvance (Mar 13, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Whitehot,

Yeah in the end, the ROP won't beat the [email protected], they are about 5W apart, but a top end of each should be pretty darn close. Yah i was pretty shocked at Dreamscapes beamshots too (they're very pretty beamshots though heh).

Wtraymond,

Nice ROP. I think KevinL when he originally concepted the ROP LE, he said the high bulb wasn't perfectly suited to running on 2 18650 in series. I seem to recall him saying that his subC ROP hi was brighter than ROP L/E high.


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## andrewwynn (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Bill by all means, let's get that shoot-out down... we'll set them up with matching reflectors and do a head-to-head beam shot or 4. We can also run them for 10-15 mintues and do a double-take. 

One thing of-note.. the 25W 1274 gives the 1185 a run for it's money.. because it's got a smaller filament and puts a very nice spot out there. People on litho123's group buy are going to be in for a very pleasant reckoning when they get their lights. 

-awr


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## KevinL (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



Delvance said:


> Nice ROP. I think KevinL when he originally concepted the ROP LE, he said the high bulb wasn't perfectly suited to running on 2 18650 in series. I seem to recall him saying that his subC ROP hi was brighter than ROP L/E high.



Yup, this is still applicable, thanks. 

Sub-Cs drop less under load than the 18650 lithiums. You'd be surprised - fully charged (8.4V) 18650s plunge to 6+ volts under a mere 2 amp load from a Surefire P91. 

The 2C lithium ion edition was a sort of compromise for the sake of carry-ability.


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## andrewwynn (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

not surprising at all.. sub-c's are what push 15-20A through a drill.. LiON are good for about 2C that's it.


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## bwaites (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Will two 18650's fit side by side in a D cell mag?

Bill


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## jdriller (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Nope


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## bwaites (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

So how is Delvance doing it?

*"Sounds good Icebreak, i personally am surprised by how much difference that ~200 lumens can make when we are near thousand output lumens. I have to say that my 3D rop, running off 4 18650 is definitely brighter than when i had a 2D 6xcbp1650 and modamag holder."*

Bill


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## jdriller (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Maybe he bored the tube to make them fit.


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## Delvance (Mar 14, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Bored host. Quite a bit of room once it's bored although i'm not using a battery carrier in it.


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## DreamScape (Mar 16, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Thanks for the Great Comments Guys, it's much appreciated.  

So the common census is that the ROP is under performing!
Ok, that’s fair to say. Maybe an FM 6AA adapter may help?
Using the same reflector may help also?
ProGold too?

To be Honest, I think the Mag85 will still kick it’s a** :rock: 

Phil and I will conduct further tests/beam shots shortly.
I’m just in the process of purchasing a new digital camera, so I can get stuck in too.
I have a nice indoor arena too to use for some shots!! 

We will be tring out an FM 6AA adaptor with the ROP.
Also the same reflectors.
Further Beam Shots will be taken after a set runtime, and a few things under out hats too.

Once again, many thanks for the kind comments. This was our first attempt at something we hadn’t done before, and are made up we done pretty well.
Things can only get better (let’s hope anyway)


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## Delvance (Mar 17, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

DreamScape, the work is much appreciated!  

I sit on the ROP wagon...so you say you reckon the [email protected] will kick ROP's booty eeeh ? =P.

In all fairness, let's look at what the general consensus is for the two bulbs in their common setups.

[email protected]
~34watt.
~1350 bulb lumens
Usually running off 9 rechargeables, cbp's give a better discharge but less runtime.

ROP (with setup of light featured in this thread)
~29watt
~1150 bulb lumens

The CBP 2D version actually sucks compared to a quad 18650 LIon and most probably a 4D high current SubC solution.

What reflectors were the lights running ? Does your [email protected] have the small opening reflector ? Did the ROP have a normal [email protected] copy reflector ?

I was actually playing with my reflectors just awhile ago, swapping in and out a [email protected] copy one and a low loss (to the point if i use the cam action, the bulb scapes against the opening...opening BARELY bigger than the bulb) and ooohhhh boy was there a difference. Shame there's no 100% reliable way to send my LIon ROP to you, otherwise i would.

Anyways, so there's about 5 watts and 200 bulb lumens difference between a good setup of both lights. I'm going to use the 65% rule to calculate the output difference between both lights.

0.65 x 200 = 130

So 130 torch/output lumens difference.

Usually, when things are near 1000 output lumens, another ~130 or so won't make much of a difference. Not saying it won't, but not a massive one...

Anyways, not trying to pick a winner with theory/jibberish. Definitely looking forward to another set of beamshots DreamScape! 

Edit - oooh, i just went over your original post again. Your [email protected] had progold, small opening reflector, FM battery holder and lower total switch resistance (due to KIU socket) advantage compared to the ROP. Yep, that ROP is certainly getting :whoopin:


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## DreamScape (Mar 17, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Delvance, nice post. I like the last line  

Looking at it again, yep it is getting a :whoopin: 

Looking at the raw facts yes the Mag85 will, but Phil did mention to me that there wasn't much in it, by the eye.
His ROP probably is under performing, whether it's the Adapter or the improved small opening rerflector or the lack of ProGold? We shall see very soon :naughty: 

All your comments are greatfully received. Phil & I have had a virtual chat and have come up with some new ideas and improvements for next time. Which we will share again, of course.

I have a new camera coming soon so shots a plenty. It may take me a while to get used to it though.

More Beam shots to come soon. Phil has a HA3 3D & 2D on order so there will be some nice comparisons going on :naughty: 

Nice comparision shots with the 2D & 3D ROP's in your post Delvance.
I'd be interested to see how you have the 4 x 18650 2200mAh LI-ons powering up the old 3D. No Battery Adapter. You must have something holding them together bar magnets :thinking: 

How do you charge them 4 x 18650 and how long from flat?


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## Delvance (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Thanks DreamScape!

Yeah two 18650s stacked in my bored 3D leaves a bit of room, i've got a longish spring that connects the tailcap to the bottom of the cells  ...bit of a wasted space but should i ditch the combo, i can later stuff in 12 aa's and play with that, that said...guess i don't want to get it cutdown anymore. 
Oh yeah, it goes like metal D plate, two magnets, two 18650s, two magnets, two 18650s, two magnets, moulded to shape metal D plate, long connecting spring to tailcap. When i was setting it up with no magnets etc to try and lower resistance...the output seemed the same to me so i decided to use some magnets to guarantee power was being pulled from both stacks (the non magnet setup sometimes only pulled from one stack). The bored grooves hold the cells in place. Funnily enough, this setup still kills my 2D with a proper holder lol.

I'm charging the 4 18650s in a pair of DSD chargers with two Nokia ACP12A chargers running 800mAh. From dangerously flat, it takes about 6 or so hours i think. I've only run it down once because i wanted to, not because of usage lol. As to runtime...i don't have an exact number but the way i use it (intermittent), it's got to be over an hour easy. It seems like i'm charging the cells out of boredom rather than necessity.
Have fun with the new camera! Great tools! Looking forward to another set of beamshots from you! I wonder what the 2D and 3D hosts will get turned into... :devil:


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## LumenHound (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



Delvance said:


> I'm charging the 4 18650s in a pair of DSD chargers with two Nokia ACP12A chargers running 800mAh. From dangerously flat, it takes about 6 or so hours i think.


Are you sure your batteries are 100% charged?

When I use a Nokia 12U 5 volt/800 milliamp adapter with my DSD the charger peaks the charge at only 4.14 volts. I have to use the original adapter that came with the DSD charger to get my 18650's to top out at 4.20 volts.


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## Lips (Mar 18, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

.
.
ROP LE (2 x 18650) Med Striple big hole vs Mag85 (CBP1650's) MOP small hole both hot off charger...























Mag85 is guarding the other lights... ROP LE goes to work because of its relative power and size... :thumbsup:
.
.
.


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## DreamScape (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Nice Pics Lips and thanks for sharing.
Would be interesting to swap reflectors to see if the Stipple really does kill the hot spot!
They solar lights in the foreground?


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## Delvance (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

It's not 100% but good enough. I think i get around 4.15-4.18 typically. This still gives some crazy runtimes 





LumenHound said:


> Are you sure your batteries are 100% charged?
> 
> When I use a Nokia 12U 5 volt/800 milliamp adapter with my DSD the charger peaks the charge at only 4.14 volts. I have to use the original adapter that came with the DSD charger to get my 18650's to top out at 4.20 volts.


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## Lips (Mar 24, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



DreamScape said:


> Nice Pics Lips and thanks for sharing.
> Would be interesting to swap reflectors to see if the Stipple really does kill the hot spot!
> They solar lights in the foreground?



The MOP was actually meant for the ROP. Modamag made a mistake on the hole size (since corrected) and the reflector would not fit 3854 HOLA bulb. The ROP was handicapped by MS and larger than necessary bulb hole... More MOPS on the way for better comparison beam shots.

The MOP reflector looks very good in the Mag85 and 700L. I kinda favor it over the Medium Stripple now...

Those are solar light insurance replacements from a massive hail storm about 3 years ago! Just now putting out the replacements. 

Cheers


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## cyberhobo (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Thanks for the beam shots. It's always nice to see beam shots!


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## Yooper (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

I have been playing with my Mag85 and my ROP a bit lately, and they go back and forth depending on the state of the batteries. I can make the ROP brighter than the Mag85 just by running the Mag85 for 10 minutes. With freshly charged batteries, rested for a day or two, and distributed evenly between the two lights with respect to resting time, (15 batteries, 8 charging slots), my Mag85 is barely brighter than my ROP. Two differences between them: the Mag85 has a modamag battery holder and the ROP has a fivemega, and the ROP is a brand new body and the Mag85 is 5 years old. These are probably making the ROP a little brighter. Both of my flashlights are fully treated with DeOxit and ProGold and the ROP has a soldered switch spring.

I've started a reflector comparison. check it out


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## DreamScape (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Got my new camera now and been giving it a good work out.
I do have some more beam shots to share.
Just need to write up a little report to go with them.

Catch you all soon.


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## Turbo_E (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

the ROP should be using 7 niMh at minimum. i tried 6 and was underwhelmed. 7 made it absolutely stunning.

stay tuned for my quad Lux 3 VS ROP pics.


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## RoyJ (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



Turbo_E said:


> the ROP should be using 7 niMh at minimum. i tried 6 and was underwhelmed. 7 made it absolutely stunning.
> 
> stay tuned for my quad Lux 3 VS ROP pics.


 
7 regular ni-mhs is fine, but 7 CBPs fresh off the charger (or 7 C cells in a 6D Mad) and you risk insta-flash.


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## cmacclel (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



RoyJ said:


> 7 regular ni-mhs is fine, but 7 CBPs fresh off the charger (or 7 C cells in a 6D Mad) and you risk insta-flash.



6 CBP2500 (A Size) hot off the charger instaflashed a HI ROP on me once.


Mac


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## cmacclel (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



bwaites said:


> Will two 18650's fit side by side in a D cell mag?
> 
> Bill




Yes with a dual bore.


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## cmacclel (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

These shots are great and thanks for posting them. BUT I don't see the point.

The Mag85 is the brighter than the ROP but uses a 3D length Host.

The ROP is probably 25% dimmer but is in a 2d Host.


For me 3D is TOO BIG. Also you neen to go up to the next pricing bracket in chargers to get a charger to charge 9 cells at once.

I may offer a few 120 watt lights in under a 2d form factor shortly 


Mac


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## RoyJ (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



cmacclel said:


> 6 CBP2500 (A Size) hot off the charger instaflashed a HI ROP on me once.
> 
> 
> Mac


 
Wow, what kind of voltages do those CBPs generate when hot?

I mean, the Pelican bulb is made for a 6 D-size celled NiCd light (I'm pretty sure that's what's inside the BigD pack), which can probably deliver much more current than those CBPs. Sp that really shouldn't be happening.


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## cmacclel (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



RoyJ said:


> Wow, what kind of voltages do those CBPs generate when hot?
> 
> I mean, the Pelican bulb is made for a 6 D-size celled NiCd light (I'm pretty sure that's what's inside the BigD pack), which can probably deliver much more current than those CBPs. Sp that really shouldn't be happening.



The Pelican 3854 Bulbs (ROP) are 6v bulbs designed for Lead Acid battery's at 6v. We overdrive them at 7.2v. The CBP 2500's (qty 6) can hold higher voltage than 7, 2500mah AA cells.


Mac


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## andrewwynn (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

looking at the chart here.. looks like CBP2500s will spike at about 1.5V/cell or 9V with 6 cells for a second or 10 'til they get down to 7.8V over the first minute or two.. GP2000s are even 'hotter'.. it's nigh impossible to get a match of GP2000s into a direct-drive solution w/o blowing lamps.. they will hold about 1.25V under load for a few solid minutes.. 11.25v solid driving the likes of 1185 lamp.. you will need some internal resistance with your switch gear to drop voltage because at startup.. you'll have nearly 1.3V average for the first 3 minutes!.. 11.7V, not of course to mention the 12.6V spike at startup.. 

after blowing 3x1185 within 3 days using rested battery packs i was 'done' with unregulated hotwire lamps.. hence.. the hotdriver... i will build one into a magswitch for use with ROP.. already figured out most of how, and it's not much more difficult than doing a KIU upgrade.. just a little tricky to cut out the inside lip on the bottom, even that is probably not a requirement.. the spring has a lot of give on maglites. 

-awr


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

When you guys are talking about ROP, does that stand for Roar of the Pelican? If not, what exactly is the ROP using, and does ROP include a variety of bulbs like the Mag WA bi-pins can vary somewhat? 

If the WA bipins are brighter, what are the pro's/con's of Pelican bulbs that people use?

Thanks

============

Edit: I just saw the other thread after posting above which has this link to the ROP writeup page....but I'm still not sure why people use this if the WA bipin is brighter...there must be some other advantages?


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## Lips (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



DreamScape said:


> Got my new camera now and been giving it a good work out.


What ya get.





cmacclel said:


> I may offer a few 120 watt lights in under a 2d form factor shortly
> Mac


How does the 120 watt compare to the WA1185 bulb. Sub 2d, sounds interesting. Doing any regulation yet...





LuxLuthor said:


> When you guys are talking about ROP, does that stand for Roar of the Pelican? If not, what exactly is the ROP using, and does ROP include a variety of bulbs like the Mag WA bi-pins can vary somewhat?
> 
> If the WA bipins are brighter, what are the pro's/con's of Pelican bulbs that people use?


ROP = Roar of Pelican
Rop bulbs drop in fit for PR stock mag bulb holder. Fairly easy MOD. ROP LE is my favorite because it's in a 2C Mag...


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## DreamScape (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Lips,

I got the Canon Powershot A620. I find it very good and has lots of features(auto and manual) and the price was great! Had a great write up on several camera web sites too.

I've added a couple of links to the first thread with regards to more information on what the Mag85 is and the ROP. I forget I was a newbie too once!

Yep ROP = Roar of Pelican.
Got my bulbs from Fivemega, also get them from LightHound - Pelican Big D 3854 Bulb Set - Part number FL-3854 - Lamp set (1 high, 1 low) for the Sealed Lead Big D light


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## Lips (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

My camera is the Canon A620 too! Love it. Just got a slave flash for it...


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## cmacclel (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



LuxLuthor said:


> When you guys are talking about ROP, does that stand for Roar of the Pelican? If not, what exactly is the ROP using, and does ROP include a variety of bulbs like the Mag WA bi-pins can vary somewhat?
> 
> If the WA bipins are brighter, what are the pro's/con's of Pelican bulbs that people use?
> 
> ...






Currently the ROP is the brightest lamp available for 6 cells or 7.2v. At 9 cells 10.8v the WA1185 is the brightest available.


Mac


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## DreamScape (Apr 10, 2006)

*Re:UPDATED -(1)- 10th April - ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

*OK I have updated the first thread with more beam shot comparisons. So Keep Scrolling on the first thread for UPDATE -(1)- 10th April 2006*

Enjoy  :naughty:


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## Phaserburn (Apr 10, 2006)

Hmm, just found this thread. I've tried my ROP vs Mag85, and the Mag85 was trounced noticeably. But then again, my ROP isn't an ROP; it's an actual, stock config Pelican Big D, overdriving the SLA version HOLA with 6 5Ah Nicad D cells in a 4" reflector.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 10, 2006)

WOW...great updated pictures...thanks for doing all those. Those indoor pictures on right look like it is full daylight....lol!

I'm also wondering how my FiveMega Mag85 setups would compare to those. Mine have his FM bipin ceramic holder, and all other stock parts, except new reflector & Boro lens. One is the 3D size 1300L with 9x150s Pilas (or AW) here, and the other is this 9 x 2/3a NiMH setup.


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## jtice (Apr 10, 2006)

Great shots !

And I thought my ROP was bright ! oo:

~John


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## Delvance (Apr 10, 2006)

Wow, excellent work!! Thanks very much for the comparision :bow: That ROP seems much brighter compared to the first one that was used with the Modamag holder, and that [email protected] on CBP is quite amazing!! Really looking forward to another comparo with different refeflectors, switch fixes etc. Thanks again wow!


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## Lips (Apr 10, 2006)

Enjoyed the shots! Very Professional... :rock:


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## Icebreak (Apr 10, 2006)

Thanks for this presentation, DreamScape. Nice work showing useful information.

I've mentioned before for that not all specific HotWire recipes come out the same, even with the same builder.

For these 3 recipes I believe your beamshots show exactly what should be expected when they are built well, focused laterally/axially and running off of optimized power sources.

I would say this latest contribution from you should be considered definitive.


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## Delvance (Apr 11, 2006)

/Agree with Icebreak

The ROP lamp definitely has more potential though. Whilst the Wa1185 is very near instaflash...the ROP isn't near that point with a stock 2D ROP. 

I'd love to see a subC or 2s2p Lion version of the ROP with the switch fix (to negate the [email protected] KIU bipin low resistance setup), progold and a small opening reflector go against that CBP [email protected] 

Dreamscape, if you're handy with a soldering iron...consider doing the [email protected] switch fix when you have it apart for progold treatment. I gained a fair bit of output and a little whiteness with just a solder wick spring mod, then i eventually did the complete fix and revised my battery layout and gained some more output and alot more whiteness. The complete fix will see the resistance of the whole switch assembly at under 30milliohms i believe. IIRC, a [email protected] with the KIU socket is about 35milliohms. Doing the full fix in one ago gains several hundred lumens at the bulb for the ROP lamp, due to it's high current draw (high current draws are affected by resistance more than a high V low current setup).


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## atm (Apr 11, 2006)

DreamScape said:


> I hope you have enjoyed


 
Absolutely! Many thanks DreamScape. Looking forward to the next installment too!





Andrew


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## missionaryman (Apr 11, 2006)

thank you very much these beamshots are a great reference article.

extremely helpful


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## Aristo (Apr 11, 2006)

any mag85s for sale?


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## DreamScape (Apr 15, 2006)

Again, Many Thanks for the kind comments 

Yeah, I should have done a straight compare with just the battery packs with same reflector with the Mag85's, I know, I know  
This first time was just to see how I got on and to see how the pictures looked.
So I know how to improve for next time.

It was quite difficult because it's a popular park and it's not the usual thing to do taking pictures of torch beams!!

Until next time...Take it easy


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## DreamScape (Apr 17, 2006)

Updated the distances from the camera to the tree now.

Top column distance to tree - 150m or 492'
Middle column distance to tree – 93m or 305'
Bottom column distance to tree – 68m or 223'

Thanks


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## Lips (May 25, 2006)

Hope DreamScape is OK

Sent him a PM a month ago and haven't heard back. No post for over a month either...


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## Delvance (May 26, 2006)

Lips said:


> Hope DreamScape is OK
> 
> Sent him a PM a month ago and haven't heard back. No post for over a month either...


 
Likewise, i've noticed the lack of posting from DS...


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## Alin10123 (Jun 3, 2006)

I have used both regular ROP (6 sub C's) and FM's "stylish" ROP with the special 2X6AA holder that is basically 2 sets of 6 batteries running in parallel, then the 6 batteries are run in series. It reduces voltage sag by a LOT. It's also equivalent in size to a Mag85 being just shorter than a 3D mag. 

Mine that i bought from FM is running off of Sanyo 2700 cells. Let me say this... this version is a LOT brighter than my regular 6xsubC cell version. Plus it's smaller, has more runtime than the ROP 2D (about double) (6AA-2D holder).

I believe the voltage sag might be the factor here. 

Of course, i'm not saying that my stylish ROP can beat out a mag85. But... i believe that it's at least very close. Especially being that Dreamscape touched up a few things and the shots are much closer the 2nd time around. Then put the special stylish version of the ROP in there, and i bet it'll be pretty close. 

That... and you can still use the ROP fresh off of the charger. 

I'm not dogging the mag 85 or anything. I do want one... but i believe the ROP to be a simpler mod.


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## DUQ (Jun 25, 2006)




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## 5645cds (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



Delvance said:


> Awr,
> 
> 
> I'm not actually using any battery carriers. Just cells stacked, spring on bottom -'ve straight to tailcap. Top has a D size plate, with electrical tape around the sides to prevent shorting against torch body. Got to love 1 hour runtime for a ROP high and in a size of 3D...very light too, seeing as it's been bored and only holding 4 18650 LIons. I might get it cut down one day so i don't need the long connecting spring on the -'ve side...more compact too mhmm.


 
Do you know the size you would be able to cut the body down to? I have a 2D length mag that I'd like to try your setup on...


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## 5645cds (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



cmacclel said:


> The Pelican 3854 Bulbs (ROP) are 6v bulbs designed for Lead Acid battery's at 6v. We overdrive them at 7.2v. The CBP 2500's (qty 6) can hold higher voltage than 7, 2500mah AA cells.
> 
> 
> Mac


 
Hey bud, do you have any runtimes with a ROP Hi and the 6 CBP 2500 setup? You mentioned that you instaflashed one once but I want to use this setup if it is somewhat stable. Any charging recommendations such as let freshly charged batteries rest for a few hours or something?


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## Delvance (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*



5645cds said:


> Do you know the size you would be able to cut the body down to? I have a 2D length mag that I'd like to try your setup on...


 
Yup. Unfortunately, the end cut down size will be slightly longer than a 2D. You can make it fit in two D, but you'll have to modify/cut the stock magswitch so that it becomes smaller in size. You can also move the switch up a bit to give those precious few mm's you need. There are instructions around on removing the magswitch and modifying it etc.

I might be able to help you with your other question too.
The ROP hi on 2500mAhs will give a runtime of around 33 minutes. To avoid the instaflashing, just let the 2500 A's rest 5-10 minutes and it won't flash. Some people run the ROP hi on 7 AAs...and that won't flash if they let the pack rest.

To give you an idea of how much difference there is between a ROP on 2S2P Li-Ions and the 2D version, have a look at these beamshots. My 2D ROP in these photos should have more output than the 2D ROP used for the beamshots Dreamscape took as my 2D ROP has the switch fixed for lower resistance and has a small hole reflector.

My 2D ROP






My ROP 3D





Big difference in output and whiteness of the beam. The tweaked 2D ROP doesn't stand a chance. And the 2D is also heavier than the 3D and shorter runtime lol.


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## pathalogical (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

The last pics of the hall bathroom are absolutely wild ! Now that's my kinda light. I wish all these mods were available at the local store.


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## DreamScape (Nov 2, 2006)

*ROP Vs Mag85 Beam Shots*

Hi Guys,

Apologises for not keeping up with the thread, work and home life have been Hectic. Just not had the time over the summer to be honest. Always out and about. Everything's cool here though, and this is my first post in 6 months   
The wife and I had a Beautiful baby Girl too, called Lucia so she has been taking all of our time.

Anyway, I hope you are all well, and thanks for the positive comments on the thread. I will probably not have the spare time for a while now to do anymore beam shots or updates.
Now the nights are drawing in and the winter is creeping in, I will be knocking about a bit more.

Take it Easy and Take Care out there :thumbsup:


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## Delvance (Nov 4, 2006)

Wow, congrats on the baby girl Dreamscape! That's awesome good news. Glad to hear everything is well. Take it easy


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## fneuf (Jul 4, 2009)

I have just finished building up a Mag85 (btw woooo!:devil and I'm wondering what is the original purpose of this 1185-u bulb from Welch Allyn. On there website it does say "medical use", but what does it imply more precisely ? What kind of medical use ? And what special, what spec, makes this bulb be perfectly fitted for a medical use ?


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