# NKON.nl negative experience



## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

I first sent a light back to them with expensive shipping fees because I didn't like the beam / tint. I asked them if they can specifically select a unit according to my wishes if I order again, to which they said yes. Now I got a message that my light has been sent. I mailed them and asked if they selected the unit as we had agreed to. They replied "unfortunately we forgot, we hope that it is ok".

Well no it's not OK! Now I may have to pay for the international return shipping fees again, and wait for 6 additional weeks of the lamp going back and forth if the tint lottery doesn't work out 



edited thread title


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

And it is a 100$ light! Let's see if they even refund me for the light I sent back.


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

In a reply I got from NKON they said that they are not going to have a flashlight specialist employed anymore in the future, and they will not be able to check flashlights before sending them. So in the future if you want a hand picked unit you will have to look elsewhere


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## Mr. LED (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

That’s too bad... Nkon has always been nice to me, I have zero complaints. I’ve seen their sales guy looking for a job on his Facebook page, that’s bad. He was really nice and could pick tints when I needed.

Without a “specialist” they’ll be just like other stores. But I’ll still buy from them, they’re the only choice in Europe for me.


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## usdiver (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

Knives and tools??? 
I don’t know of any companies that hand pick lights and never had anyone do it. Only knives and stuff I ve been able to choose like serial numbers.

So in reality this isn’t being screwed over however if they said they’d look after you then they should have done so otherwise made it clear to start with.


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



Mr. LED said:


> That’s too bad... Nkon has always been nice to me, I have zero complaints. I’ve seen their sales guy looking for a job on his Facebook page, that’s bad. He was really nice and could pick tints when I needed.
> 
> Without a “specialist” they’ll be just like other stores. But I’ll still buy from them, they’re the only choice in Europe for me.



Yes well it's when something goes wrong that a shop's customer service shows. It is easy to be nice when everything goes right.
Oh really, you mean Arjan or Vince? Yes now NKON doesn't have that possibility anymore that may be important to flashaholics. There are always other shops. Some brands you may have to order from overseas though.




usdiver said:


> Knives and tools???
> I don’t know of any companies that hand pick lights and never had anyone do it. Only knives and stuff I ve been able to choose like serial numbers.
> 
> So in reality this isn’t being screwed over however if they said they’d look after you then they should have done so otherwise made it clear to start with.




If a product / service is agreed upon prior to transaction, and the agreement is not honored after the money changes hands, to me that is screwing someone over regardless of the matter, be it selecting a flashlight specimen with a nice tint or doing some plumbing work.


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## usdiver (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

Yes I agree that as I mentioned you were told one thing and got something else. Can you send it back for a refund and then go somewhere else? 

I heard knives and tools are great folks but I have no experience except I ve ordered from them and got what I ordered


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## archimedes (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



tcglog said:


> .... They replied "unfortunately we forgot, we hope that it is ok". Well (mod edit) NKON, I'm not going to use their "service" ever again  Now I may have to pay for the return shipping fees again if the tint lottery doesn't work out. If you want a specifically selected unit don't bother with NKON.nl.





tcglog said:


> And it is a (mod edit) 100$ light! ....



A brief reminder than the "C'n'J" subforum has additional rules here, including "keep it civil" , "be reasonable" , "don't post correspondence" , and "avoid negative advisement to others"

Thanks in advance for reviewing those, here ...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/announcement.php?f=143&a=24


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## alpg88 (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

honestly i think op had an unreasonable request. if i was CS representative i'd politely issue a refund the first time,


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



usdiver said:


> Yes I agree that as I mentioned you were told one thing and got something else. Can you send it back for a refund and then go somewhere else?
> 
> I heard knives and tools are great folks but I have no experience except I ve ordered from them and got what I ordered



Yes with the cost of international postage fees and delay of a few weeks. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check them out!


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



alpg88 said:


> honestly i think op had an unreasonable request. if i was CS representative i'd politely issue a refund the first time,



Wow what a bad case of totally missing the point. It's so unreasonable that they've actually provided that kind of service in the past up until now. But if you say that is an unreasonable request then is it still OK for the company to agree to that request and fool me into a transaction, then not keeping the agreement? If it's unreasonable don't they have to be clear about it when I ask them prior to the transaction? Sigh..


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## alpg88 (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



tcglog said:


> Wow what a bad case of totally missing the point. It's so unreasonable that they've actually provided that kind of service in the past up until now. But if you say that is an unreasonable request then is it still OK for* the company to agree to that request and fool me into a transaction, then not keeping the agreement? If it's unreasonable don't they have to be clear about it when I ask them prior to the transaction? Sigh.*.



you expect them to open number of boxes, turn on lights, and guess which tint you would like? that is unreasonable. maybe they do not do it anymore because they realized it was unreasonable. i do fault them for giving you false hopes thou, should have given you full refund.


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## archimedes (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

Thread tidied up a bit, thanks


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## Eric242 (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



tcglog said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check them out!


I had good experiences with k&t but I highly doubt they will check lights for a specific tint.


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## archimedes (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

OP, it might help to know the details of which flashlight was involved and the precise wording of your request.

Specifically, how were they to know that a particular tint would be satisfactory for you, presumably before popping it into the post ?


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



alpg88 said:


> you expect them to open number of boxes, turn on lights, and guess which tint you would like? that is unreasonable. maybe they do not do it anymore because they realized it was unreasonable. i do fault them for giving you false hopes thou, should have given you full refund.



I don't know how unreasonable it is if they have been doing it for all those years. But whether or not it was unreasonable is irrelevant. Relevant is what was agreed upon and how that was honored after the transaction.

They themselves told me that there is a lot of tint variation within lights of the same model and as I was uncertain whether or not to make a purchase they promised to select a specimen with a tint according to my wishes. You know the rest.


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



Eric242 said:


> I had good experiences with k&t but I highly doubt they will check lights for a specific tint.



That's the second recommendation already for them, thanks. You mean knivesandtools.com right? Apparently they ship from the Netherlands too.


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



archimedes said:


> OP, it might help to know the details of which flashlight was involved and the precise wording of your request.
> 
> Specifically, how were they to know that a particular tint would be satisfactory for you, presumably before popping it into the post ?



As I wrote above, they confirmed that there is a lot of beam/tint variation within the same model light and as I was uncertain whether or not to make a purchase they promised to select a specimen with a tint closest to my wish. I asked for one that would show no green color in the beam, and also have as little beam edge discoloration artefact as possible. The light in question was the Zebralight H604c, which is not the worst regarding tint lottery, but it is there. And them promising to hand pick one is what decided the purchase for me. I have a lot of lights and don't need another one with a satisfactory beam/tint. I wanted to make sure that this specimen would be a worthy addition to my collection. But I guess now I'll have to participate in the tint lottery anyways.


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## archimedes (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



tcglog said:


> As I wrote above, they confirmed that there is a lot of beam/tint variation within the same model light and as I was uncertain whether or not to make a purchase they promised to select a specimen with a tint closest to my wish. I asked for one that would show no green color in the beam, and also have as little beam edge discoloration artefact as possible. The light in question was the Zebralight H604c, which is not the worst regarding tint lottery, but it is there. And them promising to hand pick one is what decided the purchase for me. I have a lot of lights and don't need another one with a satisfactory beam/tint. I wanted to make sure that this specimen would be a worthy addition to my collection. But I guess now I'll have to participate in the tint lottery anyways.



That sounds quite subjective to me.

Did you ask for photos or beamshots, or just whichever they thought was "best" in their opinion, of their stock on hand ?


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## tcglog (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



archimedes said:


> That sounds quite subjective to me.
> 
> Did you ask for photos or beamshots, or just whichever they thought was "best" in their opinion, of their stock on hand ?



If you have only one specimen it is very subjective and impossible to tell. But if you have many of the same model that you can compare, finding the least green one is not that difficult - or at least ruling out the greenest specimens. Same with the beam edge artifact and discoloration, ruling out the worst ones can be done easily if someone is just willing to do it. I asked their flashlight specialist (who they no longer have in the future) to make the pick. I don't / didn't think they would go that far as to send me pictures of different beams.


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## archimedes (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



tcglog said:


> If you have only one specimen it is very subjective and impossible to tell. But if you have many of the same model that you can compare, finding the least green one is not that difficult - or at least ruling out the greenest specimens. Same with the beam edge artifact and discoloration, ruling out the worst ones can be done easily if someone is just willing to do it. I asked their flashlight specialist (who they no longer have in the future) to make the pick. I don't / didn't think they would go that far as to send me pictures of different beams.



Did they happen to say, or did you ask, from how many were they choosing ?

Given the importance of the beam / tint issues involved for you, a photo might have saved everyone involved some headache and expense ....


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## LED Monkey (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

The vender and the buyer entered into an expressed contract. How extreem the request from the buyer, how unusual the request is, how subjective it may be, any of that is irrelevant. If you do not agree that a vender should do the request, if you think the buy is a jerk a nincompoop... , all irrelevant. The number of test samples irrelevant. The vender was under no obligation to agree to the request but did agree to the buyers request pure and simple. And all before the buyer agreeing to make the purchase, the the vender told the buyer they did not do the agreed service the buyers requested. This puts the responsibility back to the vender to uphold the expressed contract. Even if the request was unusual to some but apparently the vender has been doing this service in the past.


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## LED Monkey (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

If the vender said to the buyer "we did what we could to meet your request" and the buy was not happy with the results, well that would be because the tint is somewhat subjective and the buyer would be out of luck. At that point the vender did the agreed service but because of the subjectivity of the service the vender still held up their part of the contract. From what the buyer is saying the vender told him they simply forgot to do it.


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## archimedes (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

Has OP received the replaced item yet ?

Are we certain that it is not satisfactory ?

My curiosity about stock on hand is relevant in the sense that if they only had a couple of these from which to choose, there is still a sizable chance he did get the "best" of these (albeit randomly)

It is also relevant, perhaps, to the reasonableness of the request. Choosing the "best" out of a selection of two or three new-in-box items is one thing, while opening dozens of boxes for testing may be quite another.


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## LED Monkey (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

The number of the lights available yes indeed would make the agreed request a much more viable service to achieve I agree, but from what the buyer is saying the vender "forgot to do the agreed upon service". I do hope the buyer does indeed gets a light he is happy with. All that being said if I were the vender I would not agree to do tint selection for a buyer.


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## LED Monkey (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

I once was purchasing a item from a online vender (not a light) and I called the vender to ask something similar, a type of subjective request and the vender politely declined and I was OK with that.


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## archimedes (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

A similar situation can occur with folding knife collectors, in regard to blade centering and lock-up.

For vendors willing to hand-pick items, often photos are used to avoid misunderstandings.


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## LED Monkey (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

I agree photos would be very helpful, it's just the one issue of the vender not doing what they said they would do. And that is hearsay at this time. There would be no photos to show if they did not look at any of the lights to try and select a tint. And fwiw the item that I asked a vender about and the vender politely declined I did get the proverbial "green tint" lol and it was more than 12x the Zebra Light $
I agree about the photos.


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## LED Monkey (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

If I were the buyer here for this light I think I would at least wait for the light to come in and even if it's not what you consider an acceptable tint you could contact the seller and they may even agree to pay to ship it back to them, but at this point nobody knows yet. Yes they did make a mistake by not checking the lights like they agreed and they were honest to you, but as frustrating as it is you should let it play out and see what happens. They may not deserve a "Jeers" at this point.


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## LED Monkey (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



archimedes said:


> A similar situation can occur with folding knife collectors, in regard to blade centering and lock-up.
> 
> For vendors willing to hand-pick items, often photos are used to avoid misunderstandings.


It's a little funny you used blade centering and lock-up as an example because I did receive a knife with those issues and I did contact the seller and they were very good about paying for return shipping and sent out a much better sample.


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## archimedes (Aug 28, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

I think that may be why vendor reportedly said they hope that it is ok ....


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## usdiver (Aug 29, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

OP: knivesandtools yes... and yes they do ship to Netherlands and I’ve been told they have a branch not far from you and I ve also been told they let you choose what’s best. I couldn’t actually believe how good the service was but I ve not had the experience myself. 
Sounds a win win though.

I personally don’t think the OP made an unreasonable request and I think the request should either have been met or not agreed by the vendor and that would lose me as a customer. 
I ve dealt with HDS over the years and handpicking is not an option and it’s not a problem however I have had several of one emitter playing the lottery to which I’ve won 3 times. One of those was neolumenfr and at the time the sales rep did hand pick from 2 lights. Sadly both of those were cerakote that wasn’t done properly and the cerakote was fine till I started using. Very very expensive lesson. This person is no longer there but they still do their best to make you happy. 

In saying that, I d be the same. If I m told something or an agreement made then that’s what I expect. If i m going to get what I get and as it comes then don’t ask me how I want it...and I ll decide to buy or not.
Pretty simple.


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## id30209 (Aug 29, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

I just saw the title, wasn’t reading posts above but i gotta say i had similar experiance but i was rude (a bit) and seems to me they liked it so everything was ok after that.
2 more orders afterward was messed up but i was communicating with them like with my drunk buddies and again was all good.

It’s Holland after all, land of wacky weed and odd mushrooms[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


Sent from Tapatalk


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## usdiver (Aug 29, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



id30209 said:


> It’s Holland after all, land of wacky weed and odd mushrooms[emoji23][emoji23]
> 
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk



LMAO [emoji23] [emoji23]


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## tcglog (Aug 29, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

Wow this got a lot of replies. I'm not going to reply to each comment individually as I think the facts are known by now and everyone has a right to form their own opinion. I did read through all the comments carefully. I want to thank you guys that supported me, and understood my perspective of how this went wrong. It's all about honoring an agreement that was the basis of a purchase.


After additional correspondence with the vendor they now agreed to pay for the return shipping if the beam is not satisfactory. I'm ok with this solution as my only loss will be time, but I gotta say the staff was very rude. Of course I blamed them for not honoring the agreement but still. I guess customer service is really truly measured when something goes wrong. They lost my business for good. Next time I will try the knivesandtools shop!


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## usdiver (Aug 29, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

Tcglog
Thank you for sharing. I was considering ordering from them but not now. I can vouch for k&t. The gentleman that told me his experience with the nl Branch was unbelievable in a good way and I have yet to see anyone else go as far as they did. Maybe they knew him, maybe not but it does speak volumes. Good cs still exists but it’s rare and when I see it they earn my business.

Funny story... I was banned from ordering steak at Wetherspoons a few years ago. I was and still am well known for speaking my mind and it doesn’t do me favors... they kept sending me overcooked, dry, or burned steaks though I asked for medium hence my statement above. I ve spent too much of my life catering to others being too nice and eating the consequences but having been stepped on too many times I say it like I see it now days and I think you did right on this one.
Happy you’re getting your money back.


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## LED Monkey (Aug 29, 2019)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*

I'm glad to hear they've agreed to do what they've agreed to do lol! To anyone that may say the buyer had an unreasonable request, it doesn't matter what the buyer requested, the vender agreed to the request prior to the sale. If the buyer request only 18K gold plated flashlights and the vender agrees there is now a contract that the vender needs to abide by. The vender was under no obligation to agree to the buyers request but did agree to it. I do hope the light they sent comes in with it being satisfactory and that's the end of it and all are happy.


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## tcglog (Aug 29, 2019)

usdiver said:


> Tcglog
> Thank you for sharing. I was considering ordering from them but not now. I can vouch for k&t. The gentleman that told me his experience with the nl Branch was unbelievable in a good way and I have yet to see anyone else go as far as they did. Maybe they knew him, maybe not but it does speak volumes. Good cs still exists but it’s rare and when I see it they earn my business.
> 
> Funny story... I was banned from ordering steak at Wetherspoons a few years ago. I was and still am well known for speaking my mind and it doesn’t do me favors... they kept sending me overcooked, dry, or burned steaks though I asked for medium hence my statement above. I ve spent too much of my life catering to others being too nice and eating the consequences but having been stepped on too many times I say it like I see it now days and I think you did right on this one.
> Happy you’re getting your money back.



Yes, I am happy to even spend a few more bucks if I know I can count on the customer service when I need it. If something goes wrong (and it can) I'll be happy I did. K&t sounds like they deserve the next shot at gaining a loyal customer. I'm glad my experience can help others avoid places with bad cs.

I can relate to your story, and I laughed a little when I read about getting banned from ordering a steak  In my job I also have to treat my clients very well, and for some reason I also expect to be treated the same way when I am the customer, but unfortunately that is not always the case. Thank you for your support! 



LED Monkey said:


> I'm glad to hear they've agreed to do what they've agreed to do lol! To anyone that may say the buyer had an unreasonable request, it doesn't matter what the buyer requested, the vender agreed to the request prior to the sale. If the buyer request only 18K gold plated flashlights and the vender agrees there is now a contract that the vender needs to abide by. The vender was under no obligation to agree to the buyers request but did agree to it. I do hope the light they sent comes in with it being satisfactory and that's the end of it and all are happy.


You are able to see the forest for the trees, understand my point and put it to words better than me. I'm surprised that some commenters implied that the vendor had a right to breach our contract due to the commenter thinking my original request was unreasonable, when that is completely irrelevant. Yes, let's hope the beam is not one of the puke green type with bad edge discolorations. That would save me a lot of time and effort. Thank you for your support!


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## b.have (Feb 6, 2020)

*Re: NKON.nl screws you over*



Mr. LED said:


> I’ve seen their sales guy looking for a job on his Facebook page, that’s bad.


:laughing:


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