# Nichia 219 edc?



## Sledgestone (Apr 10, 2016)

I've been eyeing the Eagletac d25a 2015 nichia 219 for awhile now. However I'm a bit worried about the blue corona that many a talking about. 

Is there any other good Nichia 219 options out there that I should look into?


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## bykfixer (Apr 10, 2016)

Sledgestone said:


> I've been eyeing the Eagletac d25a 2015 nichia 219 for awhile now. However I'm a bit worried about the blue corona that many a talking about.
> 
> Is there any other good Nichia 219 options out there that I should look into?



Does a blue corona cause birth defects or something? 
If you like that light, buy it.


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## Sledgestone (Apr 10, 2016)

Well it causes the tint to become cooler, which kind of defeats the purpose of a nichia..


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## akhyar (Apr 10, 2016)

If you willing to go the custom route, you can order Sinner triple 219b or 219c from Sulman.
If the price is too step, how about triple 219c from Reylight which starts from US$89?


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## Brasso (Apr 10, 2016)

It is a lot cooler than I personally like, but it's not bad. I'll probably have mine modded to a 219b 4000k emitter.


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## Sledgestone (Apr 10, 2016)

Yeah, the Sinner is too expensive. But the Reylight looks amazing! Do you have any beamshots to share?


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## sticktodrum (Apr 10, 2016)

I have the ReyLight Tool Ti that's still available on the group buy. It's a wonderful warmer neutral tint. Totally worth it, it's a great light. 

There is also the D25AAA with Nichia, and it uses a TIR optic instead of reflector. There aren't any tint shifts across the beam. 

Frankly, I have many lights with Nichia emitters and none of them have blue coronas. That includes a D25c Ti as well as other reflector designs, and none have what I'd call a blue corona or a cool white tint. The coolest I have is what looks to be at most 5000k.


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## Thetasigma (Apr 10, 2016)

The blue corona is more a white wall hunter problem, in use it really isn't noticed except close up.
I like my D25A Ti but I find I carry my triples more often.


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## ronniepudding (Apr 10, 2016)

The blue corona on D25A is not specific to the Nichia models... I believe it's a consequence of the AR coating which Eagtac uses on their lenses. At very close distances (< 2 feet) when shone on a wall, there's a ring of blue tint to the outside of the spill. The beam isn't ideally focused for distances that short, but that's true of other lights using reflectors as well. After a few feet of distance, the blue corona is unnoticeable unless you're specifically looking for it. I read a negative review of a 2014 model wherein someone made a big deal about this artifact. I don't find it to be a problem at all, and I never notice it during 'normal' use.



Sledgestone said:


> Well it causes the tint to become cooler, which kind of defeats the purpose of a nichia..



This isn't the case with the D25A in my experience. I believe we read the same review. Don't be put off by it... I think that reviewer got a lemon.

(If you intend to use your light predominantly for distances less than 3 feet, I'd get a mule.)


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## tops2 (Apr 10, 2016)

How about the BLF 348? It's very inexpensive. I have 2 and the tint though is slightly different. One is a bit rosy and one is a bit green when comparing side by side. Otherwise I love these as they aren't too warm for my taste.

I'm actually considering buying a few more in case these break or I lose them since they're so cheap.


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## Wendee (Apr 10, 2016)

I've ordered a ReyLight Lumintop Tool Ti with Nichia (for EDC pocket) and I was looking for an AA flashlight with Nichia to EDC in my purse. All I could find (in my price range) was the D25 and the L3 Illumination L11C. 

After what happened to me this morning, I won't be using the D25 or the L11c as my EDC (I'd still like to own one though!). 

This morning I was out in my garage with my black aluminum AAA Lumintop on high (electric lights out, of course) and poof...I found myself in total darkness with no warning. I assume it's because of Lumintop's "High-efficiency digitally regulated circuit to maintain a constant brightness as battery life diminishes" because when I put a fresh battery in (another Eneloop Pro) the flashlight worked with no issues. 

I've decided it's better for me to EDC a flashlight that has step down when the battery is low (high to med, med to low) so that I'm not caught in the dark without warning. Neither the D25 or L11C have stepdown (at least I haven't read that anywhere). 

I guess I won't be carrying a AA flashlight with Nichia as my primary EDC. :mecry:

I'm new to "good" flashlights so if I'm mistaken about something, please feel free to let me know. Thanks.


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## sticktodrum (Apr 10, 2016)

I have a D25A Ti, and it loses the high modes when the battery is low. It bumps from low to medium, then a slightly lower medium. I'd consider that a step down of sorts. It doesn't just cut off when the battery is low.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Apr 10, 2016)

My D25A and my D25C's all step down, but I only use Lithium rechargeables, never eneloop's. I do use the eneloop pro's in a few other lights but I guess I swap out the batteries before they ever get low enough to go dark...
Have you considered looking for one of the older Four Seven's light with a Nichia 219b like the Ti Preon II or the Mini(Cr123 or AA) with the NW led? I know they are not made anymore but I bought most of mine used from CPF for pretty reasonable prices...


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## bykfixer (Apr 10, 2016)

Now if it looks like this? Yeah that's bad.

That is actually built into the LED Lenser P2 BM (for blue moon) 
Otherwise you get this.....




With the BM version...

I somehow doubt the Nichia looks like that though. 
Like others said, in regular use it's probably not an issue. 
A good AR coating is a beautiful thing in real world situations but does tend to place (generally un-noticable) purple or blue along the fringes. 

It sounds like a really nice lens, actually.


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## AVService (Apr 10, 2016)

Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> My D25A and my D25C's all step down, but I only use Lithium rechargeables, never eneloop's. I do use the eneloop pro's in a few other lights but I guess I swap out the batteries before they ever get low enough to go dark...
> Have you considered looking for one of the older Four Seven's light with a Nichia 219b like the Ti Preon II or the Mini(Cr123 or AA) with the NW led? I know they are not made anymore but I bought most of mine used from CPF for pretty reasonable prices...


I recently got the Atom AO special version that has a Nichia emitter and though it is a Mule it is a really nice little EDC light!
I have several Mule lights and somehow this one puts more usable light forward than almost all of them yet it is by far the tiniest too?

I use the Low mode all the time when my eyes are dark adjusted and on high it makes a very nice small wall of light,great on the keychain for me.

Although not Nichia the Thrunite T10 in NW is pretty amazing and of course so are the NW Zebra offerings.

I am finding I prefer the NW in general to the actual Nichia for my uses.

And the ZL are great in AA as is the Thrunite T10.


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## brted (Apr 10, 2016)

The Astrolux A01 is a AAA powered twisty with 3 modes using a 219B with 4000K and 90 CRI. Available in 7 colors and with discounts is less than $10. There is a copper special edition coming out for around $20. I bought it in black and liked it enough that when they came out with green and orange I bought one of each. I don't know if I like it enough for the copper edition. The low is a little too low and I'm not crazy about twisties in general, but it makes it really compact. Measured at 87 lumens on NiMH; doesn't get along with li-ion. Nichia 219 is so nice.


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## Wendee (Apr 10, 2016)

Good to know that the D25A steps down! Thank you for posting that gentlemen.  Eagletac should clearly identify that on their website (maybe I missed seeing it?). That's a pretty important feature. 

I couldn't find anything about "step down" for the L3 Illumination L11C but an owner of the "L10" (still available) version posted this "Regulation is dead-flat. Brightness literally constant until the battery is dead. Selfbuilt has been able to confirm this". 

So of the two (and only) AA flashlights with Nichia that I can find (in my price range), I would have to pick the D25A over the L11C, main reason being the step down when the battery gets low rather than just shutting off and leaving me in the dark with no warning. It could be that the newer L11C does step down but I can't find any information on that and I wouldn't chance it, myself. 

@Sledgestone: Good luck with your search . I'll keep an eye on this thread because I'm curious to see if anyone posts a model (AA) that I missed during my search.


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## Sledgestone (Apr 10, 2016)

tops2 said:


> How about the BLF 348? It's very inexpensive. I have 2 and the tint though is slightly different. One is a bit rosy and one is a bit green when comparing side by side. Otherwise I love these as they aren't too warm for my taste.
> 
> I'm actually considering buying a few more in case these break or I lose them since they're so cheap.



I've already got five of those  Two of those have a lovely rosy tint while the other three are a bit too much yellow for my taste.


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## Sledgestone (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks Wendee  Right now I'm leaning towards buying both the d25a and the Reylight.


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## jon_slider (Apr 10, 2016)

Wendee said:


> After what happened to me this morning, I won't be using the D25 or the L11c as my EDC
> ...
> This morning I was out in my garage with my black aluminum AAA Lumintop on high (electric lights out, of course) and poof...I found myself in total darkness with no warning.



your AAA lumintop died from the battery being drained, so now you fear buying the AA lights?
I suggest you start monitoring your battery voltage, so you know before they die. It also helps to carry a spare battery, or spare light..
curious, does your AAA Lumintop have PWM or not, (they changed to no PWM around October 2015.)

fwiw, eagletac uses pulses, while the L11c has NoPWM, the latest versions of the AAA Lumintop are also NoPWM, but earlier models used PWM.. I do not use lights with PWM, so I recommend the L11c over the D25a

fwiw, the N219b in the L11c is 4500K, noticeably cooler than the Lumintop Tool and Worm that use a 219b @ 4000k
also the high on the L11c is higher than on the D25a, and the first 3 modes of the L11c are lower than the D25a

left to right: I have an L11c, as well as the Lumintop Tool (ReyLight version), both in Nichia.. the third light is a copper Maratac (personal favorite after LED swap).. here is a size comparison.. 





bear in mind both the L11c and the ReyLight Tool start on Low first. That means that I have to advance to a more useful mode in most situations… Also the aluminum and copper Tool wont tailstand, if that matters to you.. The TiTool will tailstand

IF you want a light that starts on Medium first, the stock Lumintop Tool starts on Medium, which imo is more practical since the first click gives useful light (only the ReyLight version starts on low)… The low on the L11c is so low, you might not even know its on, unless you shine it on your hand (really close) first.

The high on the AA L11c with Nichia is 140 lumens, the AAA Nichia Tool maxes out at 80 lumens… and fwiw, I like the switch on the L11c and the TiTool.. I dislike the switch on the copper and aluminum tool as it sticks out too far, allowing it to turn on by accident if dropped in a pocket… also, the clip on the Tool leaves too much of the light sticking up out of the pocket imo

otoh, the Tool pocket clip can be reversed to fit on a hat, but it also pops off easily (so I superglued mine). the pocket clip on the L11c is screwed on, very sturdy, and the light rides low in pocket when clipped...

personally, I edc an AAA Maratac, with the Nichia head from a copper Tool, or the Nichia head from a copper Worm





fwiw, the Maratac head will light on the Tool also:





but the Maratac head will not work on the Worm (I dont like the weight of the Worm body, and I dont like the cool white Maratac LED)





I prefer to carry my Maratac twisty, over the Tool or Worm (Im not a clicky fan)

here are the swapped head combinations: (3 out of 4 work, the worm body/maratac head does not)





btw, the TiTool Head does not fit any of the others, it is threaded totally differently and only works on the TiTool (click the pick for a review)




fwiw, the L11c weighs 55 grams with AA eneloop battery installed (I usually carry it in a bag, jacket, or car)
the copper Tool weighs 45 grams with AAA eneloop (not suitable to drop in pocket due to protruding switch)
the copper Maratac weighs 40 grams with AAA eneloop installed (I pocket carry it)
the TiTool weighs 35 grams also with AAA eneloop (can be pocket carried as the switch is flush)

I do not carry a light clipped to my pants, I prefer to drop it fully in pocket. I leave pocket clips installed to prevent the light from rolling off a table.. and to clip to a hat










did I mention I Love Copper?;-)


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 10, 2016)

Wendee said:


> I've decided it's better for me to EDC a flashlight that has step down when the battery is low (high to med, med to low) so that I'm not caught in the dark without warning. Neither the D25 or L11C have stepdown (at least I haven't read that anywhere).
> 
> I guess I won't be carrying a AA flashlight with Nichia as my primary EDC. :mecry:
> 
> I'm new to "good" flashlights so if I'm mistaken about something, please feel free to let me know. Thanks.



I have the *L3 Illumination L11C Nichia 219B*. I can tell you from experience that is does not simply cut off when its battery gets low. The beam weakens and fades over a period of about 5 to 10 minutes. It is easy to notice. I have never had any trouble. In addition, when it begins to fade, you can extend the runtime by changing to a lower mode.

Selfbuilt had the same experience when he tested the very similar *L3 Illumination L10 Nichia 219B*. In the following runtime chart, for instance, the L10 Nichia is the light green line. At the end of the run, it takes about 10 minutes for output to fall from around 62 to 0. The drop from 62 to 31 takes a bit more than 5 minutes.



selfbuilt said:


> *Runtimes*



I run my L11C on an Eneloop Pro battery, so it is no surprise that my experience dovetails with the tests by selfbuilt. 

If you use a non-rechargeable primary battery, be it the Energizer Ultimate Lithium or an alkaline, the slow fade at the end of run takes substantially longer. Here, for instance, is the runtime chart for the Energizer L91.



selfbuilt said:


>



The runtime charts for Medium show a similar pattern. If you are interested in those, you can click the 

 symbol to see selfbuilt's entire review.


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 10, 2016)

Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> My D25A and my D25C's all step down, but I only use Lithium rechargeables, never eneloop's. I do use the eneloop pro's in a few other lights but I guess I swap out the batteries before they ever get low enough to go dark...



I do not have any experience with *Eagletac D25AAA*, but the runtime charts in the review by selfbuilt do not show any forced step-downs when running on Eneloop. On his runtime charts, there is a very short period of fading at the end of a run. Output seems to drop faster than it does with the L11C, but you probably still have a few minutes to react when output begins to drop. 



selfbuilt said:


> *Runtimes*



Of course, you can always manually step down when you notice output beginning to fall, but you should probably be reaching for a fresh battery afterwards.


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## vadimax (Apr 10, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Now if it looks like this? Yeah that's bad.
> 
> That is actually built into the LED Lenser P2 BM (for blue moon)
> Otherwise you get this.....
> ...



I guess this blue might come from optical (spectral) artifacts, not the emitter itself. A kind of a rainbow effect when you see the shortest wavelength on the edge.


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## jon_slider (Apr 10, 2016)

KeepingItLight said:


> I have the *L3 Illumination L11C Nichia 219B*. I can tell you from experience that is does not simply cut off when its battery gets low.



I LOVE your posts brother! Thorough, on topic, with pics and links.. your posting style rocks!


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## bykfixer (Apr 10, 2016)

vadimax said:


> I guess this blue might come from optical artifacts, not the emitter itself. A kind of a rainbow effect when you see the shortest wavelength on the edge.



That is a question I'd be afraid to answer with anything other than "I don't know, but it sounds logical"...

I only try to learn that stuff to debate Semi-Man. lol.


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 10, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> With the BM version...



I like the fact that this brick wall is one of your standard test targets. For LED sources that have trouble with red, i.e., a lot of flashlights, the bricks present a substantial challenge. 

In this shot, the bricks in the center of the hot spot look pretty good. By comparison, the ones in the spill have a pallor that is a sure sign of sickness.   

My suspicion is that the camera has greatly overemphasized the effect. In person, I doubt you notice it very much, at least, not until you start looking for it.


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 10, 2016)

jon_slider said:


> I LOVE your posts brother! Thorough, on topic, with pics and links.. your posting style rocks!




Thanks, bud! 

Glad to have the compliment.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Apr 10, 2016)

KeepingItLight said:


> I do not have any experience with *Eagletac D25AAA*, but the runtime charts in the review by selfbuilt do not show any forced step-downs when running on Eneloop. On his runtime charts, there is a very short period of fading at the end of a run. Output seems to drop faster than it does with the L11C, but you probably still have a few minutes to react when output begins to drop.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, you can always manually step down when you notice output beginning to fall, but you should probably be reaching for a fresh battery afterwards.



As I mentioned in my post I do not use Eneloops in my D25A, but Lithium rechargeable(14500), in my D25AAA, I use 10440. Have never had either just go dark...


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## vadimax (Apr 10, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> That is a question I'd be afraid to answer with anything other than "I don't know, but it sounds logical"...
> 
> I only try to learn that stuff to debate Semi-Man. lol.



I have read a bit before buying binoculars. If you have a lense you always suffer peripheral spectral artifacts unless using damn expensive double lense compensation, fully multi coated and extra low dispersion glass. And this is not a flashlight domain, unless you are ready to pay thousands for a flashlight


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 10, 2016)

Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> My D25A and my D25C's all *step down*, but I only use Lithium rechargeables, never eneloop's.
> 
> [Emphasis added.]





Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> As I mentioned in my post I do not use Eneloops in my D25A, but Lithium rechargeable(14500), in my D25AAA, I use 10440. *Have never had either just go dark...*
> 
> [Emphasis added.]



Yes, that it was I suspected. Can you tell me, on Li-ion, does it slowly fade at the end of a run, or does it "step down?"


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## lightlover (Apr 10, 2016)

KeepingItLight said:


> ... Glad to have the compliment.



+1 

Few wasted words in a KIL post!


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Apr 10, 2016)

KeepingItLight said:


> Yes, that it was I suspected. Can you tell me, on Li-ion, does it slowly fade at the end of a run, or does it "step down?"



HI KIL,
I seem to remember it as an actual step down(i.e. Loss of turbo stepping down to high then loss of high stepping down to medium and ultimately low, but it has been a while since I ran a battery to that point-perhaps I need to do a little testing-I'll post the results...


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 10, 2016)

^^^ Excellent!

I'm going to learn something here.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Apr 10, 2016)

Ok, the D25AAA part of the test is over for all practical purposes. I may have skewed the results because I turned the light off to check voltages. initially, the first time I checked voltage, the light would not come back on to the highest setting. Within two minutes it dimmed to medium, within 30 seconds to low. From low it became a 5 minute slow fade from dim to a faint glow. Voltage of the 10440 was 1.38v at termination. So in summary, the Lithium does not mimick the Eneloop As tested by Selfbuilt(who I have great respect for and believe provides the best most objective reviews available). It lost modes as the voltage dropped until on the lights lowest setting at which point it behaved exactly like the eneloop. However, 7-8 minutes is plenty of time to grab a new battery or your backup light. Stay tuned for the D25A results!


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Apr 10, 2016)

OK, I have enough data to see how the D25A is going to end. I was using a 14500 cell. It was the complete opposite of my experience with the D25 AAA. It went from high to extremely dim over a 7 minute time frame without any delineation of modes or steps(contradicting what I thought I remembered earlier in this post). I started this post while the light was very dim-it is now 9 minutes and there is enough light to find another battery...at 10" it is completely dark...


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks, Eddie! 

That doesn't sound crazy to me!


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## Wendee (Apr 11, 2016)

jon_slider said:


> your AAA lumintop died from the battery being drained, so now you fear buying the AA lights?
> I suggest you start monitoring your battery voltage, so you know before they die. It also helps to carry a spare battery, or spare light..



Lol, I agree but it was 7:00AM on a Sunday morning and I was in the garage in my pyjamas, so no way to carry a spare battery . I'd rather have step down warning so I don't have to check battery level each time I use a flashlight, especially going up/down the staircase at night (we have an open staircase, no electric light switch close by, because no wall). I use a flashlight going to bed at night so that I don't wake my husband. 

I had seen SelfBuilt's review of the Lumintop Tool before I bought it (of course) and it said "1 hour 2 min to 50%" (I believe?) so I assumed that I would have 50% light output before it died. Maybe there's something wrong with mine, because it went from 100% to zero. The battery read 1.09v when I put it on the charger. 

So much great info posted by everyone! Each day I change my mind (D25 or L11C). I drive myself crazy trying to pick flashlights. It took me a month and hundreds of videos, reviews & charts (of many different flashlights) before I ordered my ZL SC600 mkII (arriving any day now). I think I over analyze things and drive myself bonkers!

I'll re-read all posts just to make sure I didn't miss anything. If not, I'm ordering the L11C today and putting myself out of my self-inflicted flashlight picking torment.  

PS: Everyone's posts are really great and helpful!


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Apr 11, 2016)

HI Wendee,
In the area I live there are two Power companies. One has only lost power to my residence once in 3 years. The other company would lose power 7-8 times per year, often for greater than 24 hours. As a result I learned to never be without a flashlight. It's easy to keep one on the nightstand, but it seemed the power would always go out when I was never near the nightstand. To deal with this I started wearing a Quantum D2 on a neck chain so I would never be without it. It has a QTC chip so you can adjust from 1 to 120 lumens, thus allowing you to conserve power if you need it for an extended time period. I couldn't seem to get used to sleeping with it on, so I just developed the habit of putting it around my neck before my feet hit the floor any time I got out of bed. I also live in earthquake company so it keeps me prepared. There are a ton of choices for a 1080 powered light, as cheap as a brass DQG Fairy for $19, to the CooYoo/Mecarmy lights$30-$50(including a nice chain), to the Veleno Quantum(no longer made but still available used) and a number of lights by Match Box Instruments(I have the Torpedo, HF Copper and am seriously considering one of his newer lights)...none of the above mentioned lights just dies, they all get dimmer and dimmer, giving you some warning...
Just a little food for thought. The Beta QR is a Nichia 219b AAA light with a quick release that for me is a little big to carry around my neck, but an awesome all around small light...good luck & let us know what you end up with.


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## Wendee (Apr 11, 2016)

Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> ...I started wearing a Quantum D2 on a neck chain so I would never be without it.



I would love to do that and I've seen all the tiny lights that can be worn as a neck pendant (so cute!). The only reason I didn't consider them is because (from what
I can tell) they all use lithium Ion batteries. Being a "newbie", I'm nervous to wear one close to my heart area (one in a million chance it would explode but still makes me nervous). Give me a few months to get used to the idea and I'll probably have 10 of them hanging around my neck..lol :laughing:. Right now I carry my AAA in my pocket and if no pockets, clipped under my shirt to my...let's call it an "undershirt" (keep things "G" rated). It works well and I'm not afraid of explosions because I use Eneloop Pro batteries. 

The Beta QR is absolutely beautiful. I did research it but it was out of my price range for a keychain light. Some day, I hope to own the brass one (and the brass Maratac)! The only way I was able to order the Lumintop Tool Ti Nichia (that was on my "must have" list, when I win the lottery) is because the price via ReyLight was so awesome, I jumped on it! And it's configured to L-M-H! 

For AA flashlights with Nichia, it seems that both the EagleTac D25A and the L3 Illuination L11C have step-down when the battery is low, so no unexpected surprises. Both are good flashlights, but Jon_Slider's post has swayed me back to the L11C, which I will order today. 

PS: I tested my black aluminum Lumintop Tool in the garage. I left it on high and waited (boring!). After a while it flickered and turned off. I gave it a shake, it came back on, few seconds later it dimmed to about 30 lumens for...2 seconds (yes, I counted 2 seconds), then died. Not enough warning to grab a fresh battery from my pocket or purse. I might return it. I'm not comfortable with that. If I had 2 minutes warning that would be ok, but not 2 seconds. There might be something wrong with this particular unit. Oh well.  Battery I used read 1.02v when put back on the charger.


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## eh4 (Apr 11, 2016)

Reading this thread and thinking of "pendant lights", how neat it would be to have a light like the L3 L10 4 mode Nichia which could run on a 1/2 AA 3.6V lithium as well as standard alkaline, NiMH, etc. It would come with two battery tubes and a simple screw in cap to make whichever tube isn't being used into a battery case. 30mA is supposed to be the maximum sustained output for these little lithium primaries, but that should be equivalent to about 90mA at 1.2v, more than enough for a "find my flashlight" light. 
If the L3 L10 were cut for 1/2 AA it would be right at 2" long, and with the AA battery making up so much of its weight, a 1/2 AA lithium version would weigh about nothing. 
1.2Ah, 3.6v, 30mA max sustained draw, optimistic guess 400 hrs moonlight, 40 hrs low, 10 hrs medium, no high function.

Edit, reading back and looked up Quantum D2, very similar size. The recharging feature is neat, something like that which could also swap batteries would be even better. .. solution for Quantum D2 would be for it to be able to read two voltage ranges .8-1.9v it reads AA, 2.7-4.2v it reads lithium rechargeable.


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## jon_slider (Apr 11, 2016)

Wendee said:


> For AA flashlights with Nichia, it seems that both the EagleTac D25A and the L3 Illuination L11C have step-down when the battery is low...
> 
> PS: I tested my black aluminum Lumintop Tool in the garage. I left it on high and waited (boring!). After a while it flickered and turned off…. I'm not comfortable with that. … Battery I used read 1.02v when put back on the charger.



there may be some user expectations that could be modified
instead of running the light on high until it dies, try to notice when it starts to go dim
and or, try to guesstimate when you have used it for 30 minutes, then do a battery test and if its near 1.2v, charge it, dont wait for the light to die before recharging

here is the L10, green line






and a Lumintop Tool, old model with PWM, light blue line





you can see both the L10 and the Tool have very flat regulation for the 1st 1hr then they rapidly dim down before dying

I suggest you change your usage pattern to NOT wait until the light dies before changing batteries

it is not good for an eneloop to be drained dead before recharging, it is better to recharge sooner, and wont build memory nor hurt the battery to recharge even if only partly drained.

so I suggest you adopt some new behaviors
1. estimate time used, when it nears 30 minutes, check the battery voltage, and or recharge
2. if using the light til the battery is exhausted, train your eyes to recognize the dimming that happens before it dies
3. do not expect a light to hold its max lumen output until it dies, instead, anticipate battery exhaustion by estimating time used, testing battery voltage, and watching for dimming prior to sudden death.

I suspect you may be operating from some assumptions that it is bad to recharge a battery before it is fully drained, this is not correct for our batteries, its true for different battery types, that we dont use, called Nicad, which is not what Eneloop is..

moral of the story, your Tool is working the same way your L11c will work, if you wait until the battery is almost fully drained, at some point you will be left in the dark.. otoh, if you simply cycle your batteries after they have an estimated use of half their life, confirmed with voltage check when recharging, you should never have to wait for a light to go dark, before recharging

hope that makes sense.. in no way is this a criticism, just intended as education

and congrats on your L11c.. I hope you post your impressions


----------



## eh4 (Apr 11, 2016)

Growing up with non rechargeable batteries seems to have conditioned a lot of us to use the whole battery. I always had this approach, gotta wring the last bit of juice or before I throw the battery away. 
It's an obvious point once it's conscious, but someone on the forum brought it to my attention, that one of the benefits of rechargeables is that you can always step orthe door with a fresh battery, and as a bonus the batteries are healthier for only being partially discharged before recharging. Win, win.


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## StorminMatt (Apr 11, 2016)

eh4 said:


> Growing up with non rechargeable batteries seems to have conditioned a lot of us to use the whole battery. I always had this approach, gotta wring the last bit of juice or before I throw the battery away.
> It's an obvious point once it's conscious, but someone on the forum brought it to my attention, that one of the benefits of rechargeables is that you can always step orthe door with a fresh battery, and as a bonus the batteries are healthier for only being partially discharged before recharging. Win, win.



Also, as a bonus, you can easily get cheap and very portable chargers to keep in your car or at the office (or wherever you work). You can even carry them with you if need be and run them from small solar panels (like if you are backpacking). So you really don't have to worry about dead batteries or needing to buy alkalines 'in a pinch'. Admittedly, this approach works ALOT better for Li-Ion than NiMH (due to the slow charging rate of such chargers for NiMH). But these chargers can work quite well for NiMH batteries as well, particularly for topping off (vs recharging a drained battery). A good option here is the Xtar XP1 for AA/AAA and small Li-Ion. The Xtar MC1+ is good for 18650/26650 (and smaller Li-Ion), but won't charge NiMH. Both are under $10.


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## Wendee (Apr 11, 2016)

jon_slider said:


> ...
> 1. estimate time used, when it nears 30 minutes, check the battery voltage, and or recharge
> 2. if using the light til the battery is exhausted, train your eyes to recognize the dimming that happens before it dies
> 3. do not expect a light to hold its max lumen output until it dies, instead, anticipate battery exhaustion by estimating time used, testing battery voltage, and watching for dimming prior to sudden death.



I understand and agree with what you're saying. The problem is, yesterday when it went "dark", the light didn't dim at all, it just stopped working with no warning. I removed the battery and put it back in, it still didn't work. I replaced the battery and it worked. 

Just now when I tested it, I sat with it and watched the beam on the wall (I knew the battery was about 1/2 charged). It was pretty boring to do but I did it, in the garage, in the dark (except for the beam on the wall about 3 feet away). Again, the light just shut off, no warning. It did not dim. I shook it a little (not hard) and it came back on bright for a few seconds, THEN dimmed to about 30 lumens (estimate) for a count of 2 seconds (one..two..) then died completely. 

So initially it went from 110 lumens to zero. Shook it, then 110 lumens (3 seconds), 30 lumens (2 seconds). I really didn't notice any dimming what-so-ever (and I was purposely watching for it) except for the 2 second dimming before it quit. Is this normal? None of my cheap hardware store flashlights do this. Hmmmm....

In general, my intention was to change batteries once I noticed the light ramp down or dim because I assumed I would have enough time to change it. I assumed that was ok from the chart that says this particular light ramps down to 50%. I just thought the 50% output would last longer than 2 seconds. Maybe I'm reading charts wrong.

I can change the battery each day, that's not a big deal. I'll do that from now on. 

I'm a little disappointed this light works like this. I have tons of other flashlights and I've never seen that happen before. 

PS: L11C ordered and paid for! I can't wait until it arrives!  And yes, I'll post when I receive it. :thumbsup:


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## eh4 (Apr 11, 2016)

Wendee said:


> There might be something wrong with this particular unit. Oh well.  Battery I used read 1.02v when put back on the charger.



At 1.02v as soon as it's back on the charger there really might be something wrong with that one, it's certainly no battery vampire. 
If you had one of those free with coupon multi meters from Harbor Freight you could test the battery voltage before it went on the charger, but assuming it really is 1.02v with a moonlight load it should give up a whole lot more before leaving you in the dark. 
Some leds within the same production batch have higher voltage requirements than others, you might have gotten unlucky with the particular unit.


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## jon_slider (Apr 11, 2016)

> I sat with it and watched the beam on the wall

you have the flashlight disease.. LOL

> the light just shut off, no warning. It did not dim

that suggests there is no longer enough power to give High mode
I suggest you turn it on at Medium or Low when that happens

> I shook it a little (not hard) and it came back on bright for a few seconds, THEN dimmed to about 30 lumens (estimate) for a count of 2 seconds (one..two..) then died completely. 

possible reasons for that behavior:
when the light turned off the battery rebounded slightly. Shaking the light made the battery wiggle in a way that lost and made contact as if the switch had been triggered, still on High, but the juice was not sufficient, then you got the 2 seconds of 30 lumens, then dark.

I suggest at that point there could still be enough juice to power Medium or Low, but not High

so to remap your expectations of a taper down, which I mistakenly thought might be there, but the charts show steep drops after very level regulation (level regulation is a positive feature imo). So, the next test is will the light stay on in a lower mode, even though it does not taper down to the lower mode automatically.. iow, you may have to manually select a lower mode

Besides a bad flashlight or a bad battery, both of which are possible, but, consider the alternative.. the light can't power high when the battery reaches 1.02 volts as you are reporting

> the chart that says this particular light ramps down to 50%

good point, I understand your experience does not jive with a ramp down to 50% brightness..

anyway, whatever the ramping, and 50% part of the conversation may mean.. I respect your experience foremost, that if asked to perform on High, your Tool acts like it has very level regulation, you don't see noticeable advance dimming before the battery dies

Im no expert, just trying to think through the problem with you

at this stage, the test you might consider next is, after the light dies on High.. will it still work on Low?

back to the garage for you tonight I think.. LOL!

enjoy your lights 


ps, the longer you hang out on this board, the more lights you will buy
you have been warned...

pps, Ive caught your flashlight disease.. I have my L11c turned on high, I set a timer until it dies, using AA eneloop. After that I will put it on a lower mode and see how long it lasts.. but, I refuse to go out to the garage and just sit there, so Im watching netflix, with the L11c shining on the table … Im less concerned about runtime, or even dimming.. I mostly want to test if I can get another reasonable (10 min?) runtime on Medium, after it dies on High.. stay tuned.. 

Great Movie! IP Man
---

test over


Wendee said:


> I'm a little disappointed this light works like this. I have tons of other flashlights and I've never seen that happen before.



Youre Right! your Tool is different than my test light

my L11c ran on high for 53 minutes.. it was not at full charge btw I had played with it a little (and I failed to document the voltage at start of test). I had expected it to shut off suddently, but it did not.. instead it got noticeably dimmer, about 30 lumens, then kept tapering off for the next 30 minutes, by which time I could no longer see across the room (guessing less than 1 lumen)… I turned it off long enough to write this post up to this point.. I then turned it back on.. it gives the 30 lumen medium for 5 seconds and then dims way down again..

moral of the story.. using a single AA light for 1 hour is doable, though much longer runtimes are available on lower modes

as I begin to find tasks that would benefit from 100+ lumens for an hour, I start to look at higher capacity battery options..

otoh, for a 20-30 lumen task, both AA and AAA can easily last for multiple hours

courses for horses

thanks for the exploration.. 

now a question.. if your Tool is a PWM model, maybe it acts different than the NoPWM model.. the L11c is a NoPWM light, and it definitely tapers down, does not just shut off. The pretty much fully drained battery is now at 0.934 volts.. Im putting it on the charger while I load a spare into the light . fwiw, the spare reads 1.341 volts after being stored fully charged about a week ago.

---
morning after, update
the fully charged AA Eneloop reads 1.419 volts… given that the light was essentially dead at below 1volt, I think recharging when a battery drops below 1.2v is practical..


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## Wendee (Apr 12, 2016)

eh4 said:


> ..... Some leds within the same production batch have higher voltage requirements than others, you might have gotten unlucky with the particular unit.



Yes, it could be that. Lumintop states "High-efficiency digitally regulated circuit to maintain a constant brightness as battery life diminishes". I give them A+ for that statement because my light will stay constant full power until there isn't enough battery power to maintain the high lumen mode. They don't mention a step-down on their webpage description, so it's not like they're trying to mislead anyone. I had just assumed it would dim to a lower level when there wasn't enough battery juice to maintain 110 lumens. 

This morning I tested the flashlight in multiple ways with both Eneloop Pro and a primary Alkaline. Multiple Eneloop Pros charged to different levels. 
Bottom line, with both battery types, when battery gets low, I was unable to change mods, the light would shut off rather than change to a lower level (tested multiple times). 
Also, if I let it run to the end (don't try to change from high to med), it simply stops working (no step down). 

Being new to this, I don't know if this is how the "regulation" is supposed to work. If it is, then the regulation works extremely well! 

I'm sad to say that I'll be returning this flashlight. The quality/feel of this flashlight is impressive (to me) and I still get that "Oh, this is so well made!" feeling when I pick it up and/or use it. I love the mod spacing (perfect!) and I'm honestly impressed with it overall. I just don't like the "regulation" aspect (I hear most people like it) but I would prefer it to dim or step down with low battery rather than just quit. 

I have a different Lumintop coming in the mail and I would definitely order from Lumintop again. With this unit, either I ended up with a rare "glitch", or it's working as intended and "regulation" just isn't my preference.



jon_slider said:


> >
> 
> ...my L11c ran on high for 53 minutes.. it was not at full charge btw I had played with it a little (and I failed to document the voltage at start of test). I had expected it to shut off suddently, but it did not.. instead it got noticeably dimmer, about 30 lumens, then kept tapering off for the next 30 minutes



30 minutes to taper down? Perfect! Plenty of time. I can't wait until my L11C arrives  Agreed, 1.2v is a good point to recharge the battery. A step down at this voltage would be great, so I'd know to change it. 
I don't know if my current Lumintop is PWM. I do know that I'll miss it. I really do like it a lot!


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## jon_slider (Apr 12, 2016)

I also just finished testing a new version NoPWM Lumintop Worm with Nichia (I believe the same driver and led are in your incoming TiTool)

started test on a partly use battery that measured 1.266 volts
after 30 min, light has dimmed to about 10 lumens and battery measured 1.104 volts
@38 min 0.851 volt hot out of the light, the light is dim below 3 lumen. Battery rebounds to 1.043 when cooled
installed fully charged eneloop 1.356v after 1 week storage

moral of the story, my two tested lights do not shut off abruptly, it does seem your Tool is acting differently

as far as benchmarks for when to recharge, at 1.1 volts definitely needs recharging imo. I think the 1.2 volt level is a reasonable time to recharge before dimming happens.

thanks for motivating me to learn more about voltages 

to know if a light has PWM or not, I wave it up and down really fast and look for dots in the streak of light
here is an example of an older model YES PWM Tool and a no PWM Maratac (same as the new no PWM Tool)




and this is what my iphone sees





here is another way to know if your Tool is a PWM version.. Lumintop, Tool, worm, and Maratac with the new noPWM driver also has a ring around the LED





please tell me if your Tool that exhibits the quick death when discharged, has the ring around the LED or not


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 12, 2016)

Wendee said:


> For AA flashlights with Nichia, it seems that both the EagleTac D25A and the L3 Illuination L11C have step-down when the battery is low, ...



Glad to hear you are enjoying your adventure into high-quality flashlights!

Just to keep the terminology straight, I want to point out that "step-down" is not the right word. A step-down shifts a flashlight to a lower, regulated level. Turbo mode, for instance, might step down to High. 

ZebraLights, among others, do this. When, for instance, High steps down to Medium on my *ZebraLight SC62w*, you get 15 minutes of flat regulation at that level. When that runs out, there is a second forced step-down, this time to Low, where you get another 15 minutes or longer of flat output. As with almost all engineering decisions, ZebraLight has this right.

The slow decline you see at the end of a run with the *L3 Illumination L11C Nichia 219B* is not called a step-down. There is no technical term for it that I know. It is sometimes compared to the "direct-drive" pattern you see in unregulated and poorly regulated designs. I just call it a slow fade. 

As you point out, there's nothing wrong with it. It gives you all the warning you need that it is time to change the battery.


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## Wendee (Apr 12, 2016)

KeepingItLight said:


> ...The slow decline you see at the end of a run with the *L3 Illumination L11C Nichia 219B* is not called a step-down. There is no technical term for it that I know. It is sometimes compared to the "direct-drive" pattern you see in unregulated and poorly regulated designs. I just call it a slow fade.
> 
> As you point out, there's nothing wrong with it. It gives you all the warning you need that it is time to change the battery.



Thanks KeepingItLight!  
I had assumed that the manufacturers had purposely programmed it that way. I guess it's only a true "step-down" if the manufacturer identifies that as a feature in the product description (?). I still have much to learn but I'm enjoying the learning experience. 



jon_slider said:


> please tell me if your Tool that exhibits the quick death when discharged, has the ring around the LED or not



The Tool flashlight has a silver ring around the LED and what I believe is an orange peel reflector (quite pretty actually). It looks more like the picture of the Maratac on the right. 

I tried the PWM test and I don't see any "dash" type spots in the beam (or whatever the streak of light would be called). It looks solid to me, but then again, I'm not sure if I'm doing it right. 

Thanks for testing your Worm! Those results are what I thought would happen with my Tool. It's good to know that mine seems to have an unusual glitch, so it's likely that my new "Tool Ti" will act more like your Worm. Yay! 

The whole "volt" measuring thing was kind of fun (when I was testing my Tool). I have the Nitecore D4 charger that I use to measure the batteries (rechargeable only). _You can't use it to measure Alkaline, right? I don't mean charge them, just stick them in for one second to get the voltage?_ :shrug: Someone mentioned a device I should buy (DDM or something like that?) but I wonder if I'm okay with just the Nitecore charger? From what I saw while testing my Tool, I think you're spot on at replacing the battery at 1.2v. My issues seemed to start around 1.1v, which I would guess means the battery was on it's way out.


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## jon_slider (Apr 13, 2016)

Wendee said:


> The Tool flashlight has a silver ring around the LED
> my worm does also
> I tried the PWM test … the streak of light...looks solid to me
> great follow through, yes, I think your tool is behaving in an unusual way compared to my Worm
> ...



Thank you for your tremendous follow through and attention to detail.. much respect. Thanks for the shared learning.


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 13, 2016)

Wendee said:


> I guess it's only a true "step-down" if the manufacturer identifies that as a feature in the product description (?).



Right. :thumbsup:

There are two kinds of step-downs. 

The most common one is used to prevent overheating. That's when a flashlight will step down, say, from Turbo mode to High mode, after running in turbo for a short period. These are called "timed step-downs." A manufacture may tout them as a "feature," but the reality is that they are a necessity. Without them, a flashlight can be damaged when it overheats.

The other kind of step-down is a battery saving feature. That's what I described with the ZebraLights above. The *Astrolux S1*, *S2*, and *S3* all have the same feature. This step-down is not necessary to protect the flashlight. It's there to help the owner. I would call it a true feature.


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## ven (Apr 13, 2016)

There is the thermal step down which is governed by temperature, will lower the output at a set temp, then when at another set point increase again.......and so forth.. Or stay stepped down...........


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## jon_slider (Apr 13, 2016)

selfbuilt said:


> Just updated the review with the results of my testing of the switch.
> 
> I've also had to update the output tables and Hi mode Eneloop Pro runtime - as it turns out the tailswitch internal battery was not fully charged when I did those tests initially (i.e., I wasn't getting max output).



Starting at 110 lumens hi, TiTool on eneloop drops to 50% lumen output in 31 minutes
Then 15 minute fade out from 50% to dead
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...OTS-and-more&p=4879278&viewfull=1#post4879278


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## CelticCross74 (Apr 13, 2016)

looked into this thread as I am trying to assist a fellow CPFer on a new low output Nichia 219 light. The blue tinge around the beam in the first photo is not caused by the reflective coating. It is a refractive effect from the edge of the lens being raw and un coated let alone AR coated.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Apr 13, 2016)

Sledgestone said:


> I've been eyeing the Eagletac d25a 2015 nichia 219 for awhile now. However I'm a bit worried about the blue corona that many a talking about.
> 
> Is there any other good Nichia 219 options out there that I should look into?


This is a comment from my S2+ review thread. This light is very very nice. 



Chicken Drumstick said:


> Pictured earlier, a little while ago I bought a blue Convoy S2+, with the intent of running it as a shorty and building it as a triple.
> 
> 
> I trialled it with the stock CW XM-L2 and stock driver in shorty mode with an 18350 IMR. But as I've found with other lights running 16340/18350/14500, I just don't get on with them. Runtimes are too short.
> ...


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## jon_slider (Apr 13, 2016)

Wendee said:


> This morning I was out in my garage with my black aluminum AAA Lumintop on high (electric lights out, of course) and poof...I found myself in total darkness with no warning.



Same thing just happened to my ReyLight Copper Tool that I had been keeping in the car.

Here is what I think is going on… not a problem with the light, its about the battery charge being low.

My ReyLight Copper Tool had been used quite a bit. But I dont usually carry it, so the uses were brief, and I dont usually use High for long, nor the other modes for long either. Anyway, I brought the ReyLight Copper tool in the house to do a beamshot comparison to a TiTool and Lumintop Worm. I turned them all on High and took a photo.. then a few more.. 

At first, all three lights had High that seemed similar, but within a few moments, the ReyLight got suddenly noticeably less bright, by about 50% dim. I turned it off, it came on briefly at about 50% then dimmed all the way off, and it would not turn back on! 

Diagnosis, drained battery.. 
poor data collection on my part, I did not verify the voltage with my meter, and my charger has no meter, so I cant include what voltage the battery died at, but it WAS sudden and Total within about 10 seconds or less.

my interpretation of the symptoms (Im not an expert, these are just my laymans conjecture, I invite better info):

When a battery is at rest, it reads higher voltage than when it is being used. This allowed the High mode to work, but only very briefly as there was little reserve capacity left in the battery. When I turned on the High mode of the ReyLight Copper Tool, it completely drained any reserve capacity in the battery, and quickly dimmed and died.

To verify if my ReyLight Copper Tool, and your Tool, are in fact defective and have a weird Sudden Death Circuit, which I dont think is correct, one of us would need to test a rundown from a Fuller charged battery.. but, thats not really real world for how we use the lights.

So, in practical terms, I think the 1.2 volt rule of thumb still applies, charge it before it goes below that, especially if intending to use High Mode. Bear in mind that High mode only lasts about 31 minutes on an eneloop, by which point it will be at 50%.. there IS another 15 minutes of dimming at that point, but in a light that is used day to day briefly, we might not realize when we are running at the 25% remaining lumens level, especially if we dont always ask for High mode.. I hope you get my drift

bottom line, estimate when our lights are about 50% drained, confirm by voltage of less than 1.2 and recharge at that point

hope that helps


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## Wendee (Apr 13, 2016)

jon_slider said:


> ... the ReyLight got suddenly noticeably less bright, by about 50% dim. I turned it off, it came on briefly at about 50% then dimmed all the way off, and it would not turn back on!
> 
> Diagnosis, drained battery..



Yep, that sounds like what happened to me, except mine only actually "dimmed" during the first test and it was only for 2 seconds (yes, two seconds). The other times I tested it, it just quit without dimming at all. Also, I wasn't able to switch from high to medium when the battery was at 1.09v or lower. Rather than step down from high to medium, it would shut off and not turn back on.

My black aluminum Tool is now in the mail on the way back to Amazon. :mecry:
I loved everything about that light (except, of course, being left in the dark unexpectedly). 

When I receive my Tool Ti, first I'll put in a battery to charge the little built-in battery thingy in the tail cap (as you've seen in SelfBuilt's review thread) then off to the garage to test if it has the same issue as the aluminum Tool. I'm sure it will be okay though because no one has mentioned any problems with the light shutting off with no warning. I'll have an Eneloop battery discharged to 1.09v ready and waiting to test the flashlight....

Will you post your beam shot comparison on CPF? That would be great to see. Oh, maybe you did already? I'll do a search now to see


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## jon_slider (Apr 14, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Yep, that sounds like what happened to me
> ...
> My black aluminum Tool is now in the mail on the way back to Amazon. :mecry:
> I loved everything about that light (except, of course, being left in the dark unexpectedly).
> ...



I probably did not language my longwinded post clearly.. 
I dont think you needed to send your Tool back. 
I think your battery was just drained too low from previous uses..

heres the TiTool beamshot post #14


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## StorminMatt (Apr 15, 2016)

jon_slider said:


> I probably did not language my longwinded post clearly..
> I dont think you needed to send your Tool back.
> I think your battery was just drained too low from previous uses..
> 
> heres the TiTool beamshot post #14



I agree about draining the battery. I've actually had this happen myself, even on simple lights. Sometimes, cleaning the terminals can help here. It seems that, when batteries drain too low, they lack sufficient voltage to push current through the oxidation that can sometimes form on the terminals of the battery and the light.

Anyway, speaking of Nichia 219 EDC lights, one good possibility might be the Eagletac D25LC2. As an 18650 light, it's certainly a good bit bigger than an AA or AAA light. But it's not too much bigger than many AA lights. And it's still LOTS smaller than probably most 18650 lights out there. Output is probably about as high as you are going to see from a light with a single Nichia 219 emitter. And runtime will also be LOTS better with 18650 power. But it reslly boils down to whether you are okay with having an EDC light of that size.

Speaking of 18650, another high CRI option you may entertsin if you sre okay with an 18650 light is a Zebralight SC62d/c. Neither of these use a Nichia 219. But the Luxeon T is certainly not too shabby. I particularly like the warm tint of the SC62c. Both of these lights are significantly smaller than the Eagletac and even some AA lights. They ARE discontinued, however, and becoming harder to find.


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## Wendee (Apr 15, 2016)

jon_slider said:


> I probably did not language my longwinded post clearly..
> I dont think you needed to send your Tool back.
> I think your battery was just drained too low from previous uses..
> [/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## Jake-d (Apr 15, 2016)

Sledgestone said:


> I've been eyeing the Eagletac d25a 2015 nichia 219 for awhile now. However I'm a bit worried about the blue corona that many a talking about.
> 
> Is there any other good Nichia 219 options out there that I should look into?



I built a convoy m2 with nichia 219c, I really like the tint link http://budgetlightforum.com/node/45547


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## jon_slider (Apr 15, 2016)

Wendee said:


> the flashlight was running for at least 15 minutes (using battery not fully charged) before it quit. Should there not have been dimming to 50%



Sorry for questioning your experience. Definitely sounds like a problem with the light, I think 

hopefully your new lights will not disappoint. Please let us know 

the 50% thing is not every time, it's once, on the way down the discharge curve. 

If you restart the battery when it's already at 50% charge, it may have a sudden decline, the discharge curve is steeper at lower battery voltage. Look at the orange line:


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## Wendee (Apr 18, 2016)

Re: Nichia 219 for EDC

I just received my L3 Illumination L11C (Nichia 219B) from SBFlashlights. 6 days delivery to Canada (I'm happy with that). 

First impression: 

The flashlight is beautiful (I have the orange one) and it feels like it's well made. 

This is the first time I've seen a Nichia light in person and I now think that using anything other than Nichia for tasks that don't require high lumen output, really doesn't make sense, when Nichia is available. 

As expected (from the reviews I've seen) colours look beautiful and white objects actually look pure "white" (not blue-ish, green-ish or tan-ish, like I'm used to). Fun-fact: This is the fist time that I've ever seen a pink object actually look "true pink" under a flashlight. My pink lipstick tube, to my eyes, appeared 100% true vibrant "bubble gum pink" and it looked like it was sitting in bright sunshine (I'm not kidding, real sunshine!). Not the most useful information to pass along but it really surprised me as I wasn't expecting it (haven't seen Nichia affect on the colour pink mentioned in reviews or posts). 

I have to "balance" the flashlight to get it to tail stand. I can't just "set it down". I think my clicky button is a tad too big. It does tail stand though. Update: After using the clicky button a bit more, it has "softened up/flattened" a bit and tail stands no problem.

I will use this around the house (for sure!) and carry it in my purse as well. It won't be my primary EDC as I think I'd feel safer walking to my car in a dark parking lot (or similar outdoor situations) with a higher lumen flashlight. 140 lumens is enough to light a path but I'd just feel safer having an additional higher lumen output flashlight with me. The L11c is small (actually fits in my pocket) so no problem carrying it as my secondary EDC for indoor tasks that require a flashlight. I think it's worth carrying as a secondary because I'd much prefer to use this flashlight indoors than one without a Nichia. I've got it, so why not use it and enjoy it, right? 

The only other AA flashlight I could find that used a Nichia was the EagleTac D25A. I believe the OP has decided to buy that one. I hope he posts after he receives it to let us know how he likes it. From posts I've read, I think both the D25A and L11C are good flashlights. I had a really hard time choosing which one to buy. I might buy an EagleTac D25A as well (for myself or as a gift), now that I know how wonderful Nichia flashlights are! 

If you're reading this because you can't decide if you should buy a AA flashlight that uses Nichia, I suggest you do buy one to at least see the difference (Nichia vs non-Nichia). The lumen output won't be a high as non-Nichia flashlights, but now that I own one, I think the trade-off is worth it. Happy!


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## recDNA (Apr 19, 2016)

The Reylight triple Nichia looks like a fabulous bargain! I'm tempted but I am spoiled by lights that step down when too hot (PID) or battery low. Since Reylight warns light gets very hot very fast I would like one with a heat protection driver. Of course as things like that are added price must go up and there goes the bargain.


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## Wendee (Apr 22, 2016)

recDNA said:


> ...I am spoiled by lights that step down when too hot (PID) or battery low.



Excellent point. I'll post this in case other "newbies" (like me) read this. Going forward, the first thing I'll research when buying a flashlight is if it has programmed "step down" (low to medium, medium to low) or "dimming" (not programmed but dims when battery is low). Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still learning terminology.

I'll gladly give up brighter lumen output and buy a flashlight that steps-down or dims when the battery gets low. I don't want to be using a flashlight that will unexpectedly quit and leave me in the dark (yes, I'll have a spare battery but I'd like warning time to find it in my purse). 

For what it's worth, my L3 Illumination L11C (Nichia) definitely dims (50%?) when the battery is low. Still plenty of light to get around and plenty of time to grab a fresh battery. I let it run "dimmed" for about 5-10 minutes (I didn't time it) before I changed the battery (I don't know how much longer it would have run). The battery read 1.13v when I put it on the charger.

I'm loving this flashlight. It's in my sweater pocket right now and I've been using it on "moonlight" mode as a nightlight each night since I got it, just for fun (it doesn't get hot at all).


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## jondextan (Apr 22, 2016)

I have two AA lights for edc, a Zebralight SC52w and a D25A Ti Nichia. The zebra is warmer but the nichia light really has better color rendition.


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## recDNA (Apr 22, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Re: Nichia 219 for EDC
> 
> I just received my L3 Illumination L11C (Nichia 219B) from SBFlashlights. 6 days delivery to Canada (I'm happy with that).
> 
> ...


Just to help you feel at home here I will tell you an old CPF saying, "Without a picture it doesn't exist". In other words I'd love to see a photo of your new flashlight!


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## Wendee (Apr 22, 2016)

recDNA said:


> Just to help you feel at home here I will tell you an old CPF saying, "Without a picture it doesn't exist". In other words I'd love to see a photo of your new flashlight!



I took a couple of pictures but when I went to upload them, it asks me to link to a URL. I don't see a way to upload from my computer? I found this in the FAQ section "upload it to your own website or an image hosting site and then link to that image". 

I just thought I'd let you know that I'm working on it. Pictures to come as soon as I figure this out! 

Update: I figured it out. This is a bad picture (older inexpensive camera) but after having to open a PhotoBucket account etc, I'll post it anyways. 

Note: The L11C is *much *better looking in person! The clip is shiny silver (not dark like in the photo). I wish the photo was better. It's a pretty flashlight.


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 4, 2016)

L11C looks like a nice AA battery style flashlight to have.

However, I just wanted to get away, FAR AWAY, from the Alkaleakers. :green: (NiMH cells are alright, although I needed much longer runtime.)

I ordered a "kit" from Mountain Electronics which I will be assembling from scratch (into the pretty blue Convoy S2+ flashlight host), I picked CRI +83, 5,000 Kelvins Nichia NVSW219CT LED soldered on a Copper DTC starboard, along with the hybrid direct drive FET driver with the Bistro firmware flashed onto it. Just needed something more usable before I retire my ancient ICON Rogue flashlight (no longer as bright as when it was brand new) - I have several A123 LiFePO4 cells on hands, and since I like its safety factor, I figured I will assemble something usable to EDC.

I wonder how good the Nichia LED will be when I am done assembling it and test against XM-L LED flashlight I bought from Amazon (learned my lesson not to trust cheap flashlight anymore - they don't always function to my liking, especially with a few too much LiFePO4 cells I have on hand).


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## jon_slider (Jun 4, 2016)

Dr. Mario said:


> L11C looks like a nice *AA battery* style flashlight to have.
> … *NiMH* cells are alright, although I needed much longer runtime.
> … I picked *CRI +83*, 5,000 Kelvins Nichia NVSW219C
> ...I have several A123 *LiFePO4* cells on hands, and since I like its safety factor
> ...I wonder how good the *Nichia* LED will be when I am done assembling it and test *against XM-L* LED flashlight



thanks for joining the L11c conversation
it is not a LiIon light, I consider Eneloop safer than LiPeP04
an AA sized LiIon will give higher brightness but shorter runtime and more heat
The L11c with Nichia 219b has CRI 92 and is vastly better at showing reds than an XML or N219c. otoh, XML and 219c will be brighter
I find the brightness of the L11c excellent. And the high CRI 90+ makes me very happy.

The L11c is the least expensive, lightest weight, most compact, lowest priced, highest CRI, no PWM, tailstand capable, low to high mode sequence, AA light available. Yes, its that good . 

Honestly, I have yet to hear anyone say they regretted buying an L11c, and Ive gone out on a limb to recommend it. 

otoh, choice of light varies, as you pointed out, with desired runtime, which means choosing the right battery capacity and brightness options for your needs. I hope you enjoy the light youre building, I have great respect for DIYselfers.


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 4, 2016)

I'd still consider getting L11c at some point.

As for NiMH batteries having longer runtime than LiFePO4 cell; it DEPENDS. Boost converter tend to have lousy efficiency (below 90%) than either buck or direct drive. Single AA NiMH below 2,000 mAh used in boost drive won't outlast the 1,000 mAh 18650 LiFePO4 cell in the direct drive setup, that's for sure. Some boost converter are kind of a bit more efficient when managed by software in ATMEL ATTiny microcontroller (like those used in the vampire flashlights) - story may be a bit different when you start adding a few more AA NiMH batteries - every voltage being fed into boost converter counts - the higher the voltage, the lower the current into the driver. Hence I opted to do direct-drive LiFePO4 setup, it's much more efficient that way, concerning Nichia NVSW219CT LED's sub-2.8 Volts Vf.

As for NiMH battery safety, it also has to do with how well do the charger handle it - same with Lithium-ion batteries. Poorly-designed charger that won't terminate when shoving 2 Amps or more in AA NiMH battery could make matter worse (if the vent fails, well, it would be obvious - although it's rare). I have seen a Ray-o-Vac NiMH charger that depends on resistor and transistor to determine when to cut out - not a smart idea.

However, I still buy AA or AAA flashlights occasionally and do use NiMH batteries (I need to find AAA Eneloop soon for my Maglite Solitaire LED flashlight soon).


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## jon_slider (Jun 4, 2016)

Dr. Mario said:


> Single AA NiMH below 2,000 mAh used in boost drive won't outlast the 1,000 mAh 18650
> … However, I still buy AA or AAA flashlights occasionally


yes, 18650 is a popular option, about 50% heavier and similarly longer lasting, or brighter, pick one 

can you suggest a good budget priced, off the shelf, NOPWM, low weight, single 18650 light with N219b? 

my current favorite single cell options with N219b:

*AAA* Lumintop ReyLight Tool in Copper or Titanium.. pm me if you want one..

*AA* I like the L11c some people also like the Eagletac options

*CR123* I dont have any experience, maybe someone can post a suggestion

*18650* I also have no experience


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 4, 2016)

I will have to look into that. Regular Lithium-ion cell or LiFePO4 cell?


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## jon_slider (Jun 4, 2016)

Dr. Mario said:


> I will have to look into that. Regular Lithium-ion cell or LiFePO4 cell?


educate me with your best suggestion(s) for a newbie with no Li Ion experience


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## StorminMatt (Jun 4, 2016)

jon_slider said:


> yes, 18650 is a popular option, about 50% heavier and similarly longer lasting, or brighter, pick one
> 
> can you suggest a good budget priced, off the shelf, NOPWM, low weight, single 18650 light with N219b? Brightness has very low priority for my needs, and I would prefer it not be black... ;-)
> 
> my current favorite AAA option with N219b is the Lumintop Tool in either Copper or Titanium.. pm me if you want one..



You can get an Eagletac D25LC2 with the Nichia 219B. This light is nice in that it is a good deal brighter than your typical AA Nichia 219 light - about as bright as an Eagletac D25A2 with XM-L2. There's also the P60 option. You can get a two mode Sportac triple Nichia and run it in a Solarforce L2 host. This combination is nice in that it gives you a good deal of high CRI light at a low cost. You can also choose a color other than black. But it is physically significantly larger than the D25LC2.


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 4, 2016)

I'd definitely look into Eagletec, although I opted to go DIY route as it's easier to control over what I want it in. I am doing Convoy S2+ host which is still pretty slim while capable of housing the 18650 Li-ion cell.


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## Wendee (Jun 4, 2016)

jon_slider said:


> The L11c is the least expensive, lightest weight, most compact, lowest priced, highest CRI, no PWM, tailstand capable, low to high mode sequence, AA light available. Yes, its that good .
> Honestly, I have yet to hear anyone say they regretted buying an L11c, and Ive gone out on a limb to recommend it.


 
Yep, you recommended it to me and it's my most used light. I love it and use it every single night. The mode spacing is perfect and all output levels are very useful (excellent). I even use the super low moonlight as a night light (with diffuser, perfect). 

I sent the only store that sells it (SBflashlights) an email last week and they never replied to me. I wanted some info before buying a backup (I like it that much) and buying one as a gift. I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed with their customer service. I'm going to buy a backup anyways but now I'm a little worried about if I have a problem with a light that they won't reply to my email. I guess I'll just have to chance it. *Update June 8*: I received a nice email reply from SBFlashlights! They apologized for the delay. So, yay, nothing to worry about. A delayed response is definitely better than no response. 

So you're thinking of buying an 18650 light? You know how scared I was of 18650 but after charging my first one (I was _so_ scared) and putting it in the light & turning it on for the first time (also very scary), I haven't thought of it since! I use the light just like it was a AA light, meaning, I'm not afraid to use it like I thought I would be. It's great! I'm still going to be *very* careful charging the batteries and be respectful of the flashlight, but really it's a piece of cake once you get the battery in and use the light a bit to get used to the idea. I must confess though, I'm trying to not use the light _too_ much because I don't want to have to charge the battery again! LOL. I'm sure I'll get used to charging 18650 batteries, with time. Using the light isn't scary though.  

StorminMatt suggested the Eagletac D25LC2 or to do the DIY option (see his post above). Those are the two best options I found when looking for an 18650 Nichia flashlight. 

I'm on the fence about the Eagletac because (if I remember correctly) it was released in 2014 so I'm willing to bet that if I buy one, they'll come out with a "new & improved" version the next day. 

The DIY option sounds really great (from everything I've read) but I think I'll wait until I have more experience before going that route (but I plan to in the future). You should read up on it though, you might find it's the best option for 18650 Nichia flashlight. :shrug:

Have you started shopping for an 18650 light yet?


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## Wendee (Jun 4, 2016)

Dr. Mario said:


> L11C looks like a nice AA battery style flashlight to have.
> 
> However, I just wanted to get away, FAR AWAY, from the Alkaleakers. :green: (NiMH cells are alright, although I needed much longer runtime.)
> 
> ...



Dr.Mario, 
This sounds very cool! I'm going to keep an eye on this thread  I plan on doing a DIY Nichia 18650 in the future so I'm interested to follow your posts. One question, I think (not sure) that I read _protected _18650 batteries don't fit in the Convoy S2? Maybe the S2+ is a bit longer? I really love the look of those lights (I like the red one best) but I'm only comfortable using protected batteries. Will you be using protected, or unprotected, batteries in your DIY light?

Update: I missed that you'll be using "A123 LiFePO4" batteries. I don't know what those are. I'll have to read up on those. :thinking:


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## ven (Jun 4, 2016)

Triple nichia in a p60 host is a winner for me, in work I use the sportac triple nichia (2mode)in a L2T right now(heavy light!) But still goes in my pocket........least I will notice if it falls out, more so if on my foot :laughing: 




My other triple nichia(4 mode with moon)is in my 6p





My work lights with drop ins have pany BD's inside them and my 6p an LG INR cell.


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## Strintguy (Jun 4, 2016)

ven said:


> Triple nichia in a p60 host is a winner for me, in work I use the sportac triple nichia (2mode)in a L2T right now(heavy light!) But still goes in my pocket........least I will notice if it falls out, more so if on my foot :laughing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What is the other P60 triple 4 mode with moon, please?


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## Wendee (Jun 4, 2016)

ven said:


> Triple nichia in a p60 host is a winner for me, in work I use the sportac triple nichia (2mode)in a L2T right now(heavy light!) But still goes in my pocket........least I will notice if it falls out, more so if on my foot :laughing:
> [...]



LOL, true! 

Ven, every time you post pictures of one of your lights, I think "wow". You have some really nice flashlights. :thumbsup:

Is there a thread somewhere that teaches the basics on putting one of these DIY lights together? I've only seen random posts here & there of people mentioning what they built but not how they actually put it together. Is there a thread dedicated to that?


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 4, 2016)

As for protected cell, I would suspect there may be some trouble in term of length but I don't think there will be a major problem as far as diameter of protected cell is concerned - unprotected cell in my Convoy S2 blacklight flashlight I assembled is pretty loose - 1mm of free space in there, pretty much. As for length, I suggest to use two 2mm x 5mm brass button soldered onto bottom of LED driver board (positive terminal) as it would ensure that spring won't crush the protection board. If you use INR18650 cell, I will suggest to use 1 - 2 Amps linear regulator driver with firmware of your choice, not direct driving as it will get hot on 4.2 Volts power fast (not to mention it might trip the protection board on first try).


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## ven (Jun 5, 2016)

Wendee said:


> LOL, true!
> 
> Ven, every time you post pictures of one of your lights, I think "wow". You have some really nice flashlights. :thumbsup:
> 
> Is there a thread somewhere that teaches the basics on putting one of these DIY lights together? I've only seen random posts here & there of people mentioning what they built but not how they actually put it together. Is there a thread dedicated to that?




Hi wendee, you need a p60 compatible host(think empty flashlight, bezel,body,tail cap but no light engine(the p60 drop in part).
Here is a surefire M2 and a VOB(vestureofblood) drop in, xhp70 de-dome 5000k




From oveready you can buy custom parts like the cryos bezel in z32/m2 size and z44 size(latter smaller)

z32




Head removed off host so empty body with tail cap




Depending on actual fit, i will wrap some foil(cu or normal will do) around the p60 drop in body to help contact. So if you just put a drop in, in the host, it more than likely will have space around. To take up this space simply wrap foil around the body for a snug fit. This helps heat transfer from the drop in to the body

Random pic of bits(pics say a 1000 words)Note 3 drop ins, 3 lights with heads off for drop ins(p60's)



m2 with bezel removal tool(can buy bezel rings along with tail caps,bezels etc to customise it to your wants/needs/taste)






QCvn(quad xp-g2 5000k) / nichia 219b triple/P60vn(quad xpl -HI 5000k)




The m2 is an old light, here is a pic of the oe bulb drop in(without digressing too much(too late!) the m2 is not really the best example as the bezel is a little larger )




If you dont want to spend too much Wendee, i would look at the solarforce hosts, good value and bored for 18650. The surefires are 2x cr123(6p/c2/m2) that i have, so i will use 16650 cells to replace the cr123's to feed some drop ins. One of my c2's is bored for 18650, so in this i run INR 18650 or i can run 2x 18350 cells to feed the xhp70 drop in(requires 8.4v). For now though its in my unbored M2 so it has 2x 16340 cells to power it!
Here is an early foil wrapped drop in(yes i know its not very good)




Solarforce wise, for $20 or so, the L2T is a nice light, many others to choose that may suit you, have a look on their site if you decide to go this way. The advantages are that the p60 system is just so flexible!. Different drop ins for different uses, be it a more throw orientated one, flood, triple, quad, then tint wise and driver wise................pretty much endless tbh. Swap out for a different type for a different use, only dissadvantage for me is the size..............this limits the reflector size/depth for throw etc. Still i am yet to be dissapointed with all things considered.
Here with the stainless L2T



P60vn drop in with info card




P60vn wrapped in foil,this will vary depending on the host for snug fitting!



Onto the triple nichia 219 drop in, i got this off SOYCD , 4 modes with a moon light








Its used every day as a house EDC in my 6p


Hope of some help, its rough and ready(as always) but sometimes pics can help explaining more than words.
Sorry for digression 
Cheers


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## SG Hall (Jun 5, 2016)

Great info ven, thanks for going to the trouble. I've been looking for a "drop-ins for dummies" section and I've found it all right here! [emoji106][emoji1]


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## ven (Jun 5, 2016)

I have been called worse than a dummy 

Only a rough idea and glad it helps, I too looked for a bit of a guide and struggled to find one. It does seem a little :thinking:, but once in hand it falls into place(literally). Slight issues from the p60 seating(using the springs or not depending), to the bezel not fully screwing down or leaving a small gap like........



At the bezel /body end, easily throw an O ring there to take gap up, does not effect water proofing !

Then your freshly wrapped drop in out of the ****** host goes into the ****** host and wont fit as too tight!. So from one light to another there can be slight discrepancies of which none are deal breakers. Just require a little tweak here and there...........

These 2 hosts i really like, the cryos m2 bezel has a p60vn quad in, the m2 the xhp70




The xhp70 is fed on




The magnet between is just to add a few mm of length to help the triad tail make contact. At some point i will swap into the bored c2 and run on 2x 18350's for a change........

Cheers, yours faithfully dummy :nana:


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## msim (Jun 5, 2016)

Ven we have very similar tastes in lights! I have 3 6Ps (one bored), a few custom hosts and a whole bunch of Solarforce hosts around. 

Related to the topic at hand, I have a single mode Nichia drop in pulling ~700ma in a Solarforce P1 host in my glovebox and I use my Sportac single mode Nichia triple almost daily around the house. A little too big to EDC because I keep it in my Cooly 26650 host. I actually prop it up using a small table vise most of the time. The next time I see the Sportac Triple Nichia 2-mode in stock somewhere I plan to pick a couple up. 

If I want pocket sized Hi-CRI I have an old HDS Clicky Legacy with the SSCP4 LED that's 90+ or my new Manker E14 with Nichia LEDs which has been fun to carry around the last week.







This isn't a Nichia drop in (Torchlab V5 XP-L redome) but just want to help encourage Wendee's new P60 interest!







Here's the Nichia helping me assemble a bed frame last weekend.


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## ven (Jun 5, 2016)

thanks for sharing
My other work light hosts(well the p1 is now at home in Callums possesion, L2T in tis place, the P1d is still in work, the little beaten one)




Both have triples, both sprortac 2 mode(now in the stainless L2T), on nichia 219, the other xp-g2 i would put at around 6000k but all white(no blue or green).......nice for a cool tint!




Here is my 6p with cryos bezel(z44 size) and the malkoff drop in m361N which is a stunning 4000k tint from the xp-g2.............lovely beam with nice reach and plenty of spill.



But thats the bonus, swap and change as you want, my triple nichia is back in the 6p, my m361N in my c2 run on a 16650 4.35v sanyo cell
CQvn quad xp-g2 and malkoff m361N drop ins




Here is an older pic with the xhp70




The m2/z32 size is a little too big for edc, 



Still with the standard bezels, these have slipped into my pants pocket with ease and dont find too pocket intrusive(my leg does not anyway).

The sprotac nichia triple is a great value drop in to start out with, as i have said before, i have 2 mode versions and the 20% mode(20% and 100% 2 mode)of around 160 out the front lumens is about perfect for my work uses and can run for hours.......and hours..........and hours . Many times under machinery i have left it sat on a ledge on, heat is no issue for the body mass and output, yet enough to illuminate without dazzling back closer up.

For an edc that might be with security/defense in mind, the very nice triple xp-g2 from EDCplus is a recommendation, the 4000k tint is very very nice!! Potted too for those who are potty about being potted. But does start in high, so if this is an issue its something to think about. Its a mini wall of light, perfect imo for walks/dog walks/general around house stuff to work(does have modes but always starts in high).







And as mentioned before, the best p60 case in the world.................with a useful bezel tool end


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 5, 2016)

Nice flashlight, ven!


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## ven (Jun 5, 2016)

Thanks, may have gone off on a little tangent but hope its helped wendee a little and i do edc nichia 219 in several ways. Home wise, HDS hi cri which is a fantastic little light, rotary UI is superb, surefire 6p with triple nichia drop in around house uses(will be away from come winter time and wearing a coat). Work edc the L2T with sportac nichia triple.................guess i like nichia for close up edc/work stuff :laughing: 

I like to mix things up and swap about rather than have just one light for EDC uses, variety basically and do like using different lights.................only way i can get some use out of them all! :laughing:


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## staticx57 (Jun 5, 2016)

There are so many options with Nichia. You just have to look around.


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## Wendee (Jun 6, 2016)

ven said:


> Thanks, may have gone off on a little tangent but hope its helped wendee a little [...]



Yes, thank you ven! It helped a lot! 

I really like that Cryos bezel. I think it would really help to keep the light cooler which is always a good thing. I looked it up online but the site that sells it seems to be sold out. I found a CPF thread where someone was selling them but I'm not sure if he still is. 

Now I'm trying to figure out if there's an inexpensive host that takes 26650 batteries and if the Cryos bezel would fit. I've read that Telsa will (is?) start using 26650 batteries and now more and more flashlight manufacturers are making 26650 lights. I think this will encourage battery manufacturers to continue improving 26650 batteries and they'll eventually have even better run times than they do now (best now is still good though). 

Size isn't a problem for me since I carry a purse (well, 26650 size, not a huge light). 

So, if I were to build one it would have: 
Nichia x4, 5 mode (moonlight, low, med, high, turbo), prefer no strobe or at least hidden, takes single 26650 protected battery, Cryos bezel, side button, quick access to turbo, thermal management (step down) preferred over timed step down, low voltage warning, reverse polarity protection, usb charging would be nice but not necessary. 

This would be my perfect flashlight. I don't know how close I could come but I'm looking around.  I think it might turn out to be too expensive to build but I'm not sure yet. I haven't seen a flashlight like this made by a big manufacturer. Maybe I missed one?

Thanks for the great info Ven. I've bookmarked this thread. :thumbsup:


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## Wendee (Jun 6, 2016)

staticx57 said:


> There are so many options with Nichia. You just have to look around.



Wow, that's a lot of Nichia flashlights! Very nice 
Can you please list the names of them and what type of battery each takes? That would be some really great information 
Is the one on the left a flashlight that takes 26650 batteries? It looks like it might? I can't make out the name on it :thinking:


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## ven (Jun 6, 2016)

Wendee have a look at the cooly host, around $100 give take here
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?326040-COOLY-26650-D26-(P60)-Host-By-FiveMega

26650 fed, p60 drop in of your choice (nichia) and good to go. I have a CQvn quad xp-g2 5000k 4 mode that starts in low in mine.

3rd from left













business end


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## Wendee (Jun 6, 2016)

ven said:


> Wendee have a look at the cooly host, around $100 give take here
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?326040-COOLY-26650-D26-(P60)-Host-By-FiveMega
> 
> 26650 fed, p60 drop in of your choice (nichia) and good to go.[...]



Thanks Ven, 
I did see that host but since I'd use the flashlight at our camp (as well as EDC in purse), I figured the fins in the handle would get full of dirt and be a pain to clean. If the handle didn't have those fins, it would be perfect


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## ven (Jun 6, 2016)

Yes, dirt magnet :laughing: and it is on the larger side for carry. 26650 is a comfortable size in hand, not too many hosts that i am aware of in this flavour. TNC do a nice 26650 host too, may be worth a look

As i cant link, i will send it pm for you to check out.


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## staticx57 (Jun 6, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Wow, that's a lot of Nichia flashlights! Very nice
> Can you please list the names of them and what type of battery each takes? That would be some really great information
> Is the one on the left a flashlight that takes 26650 batteries? It looks like it might? I can't make out the name on it :thinking:




Sure!

left to right:
1) Surefire 6P nothing in it now but it takes a 16650 or 2x cr123 or 2x 16340. This is your basic p60 host you've been hearing about. No frills yet

2)Astrolux S41 quad nichia 219b really like this one. Floody beam which is great. It takes an 18350 standard but I have a 18650 tube on it. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...urements-(Quad-Nichia-219B-18350-16340-18650)

3) Jaxman E2 inexpensive single LED flashlight. Pretty basic takes an 18650 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...urements-(Nichia-219B-bargain-high-CRI-18650)

4) Eagletac D25LC2 18650

5) Astrolux/BLF A01 mine is the copper version but you can get stainless and colored stainless for cheap. It takes an AAA. Really pleasant 4000k variant 

6)Reylight copper tool AAA

7)L11c 4 mode AA

8)BLF single mode clicky. Really cheap nice light. Takes an AAA or a 10440 Liion the cell type will tell you how many lumens it puts out

9) Reylight titanium tool- AAA

10) Astrolux M01- really neat 5000k ish variant that takes a 10180 Liion 2 mode

11) L10 - AA


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## ven (Jun 6, 2016)

staticx57 said:


> Sure!
> 
> left to right:
> 1) Surefire 6P nothing in it now but it takes a 16650 or 2x cr123 or 2x 16340. This is your basic p60 host you've been hearing about. No frills yet
> ...


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 6, 2016)

Finally assembled Nichia 219C LED flashlight based on Convoy S2+ and it's pretty good - I will need to set up the temperature sensor so I don't accidentally cook the LED by accident in Turbo mode. Bistro is one oddball firmware I will need to get a grip on. I am using Mountain Electronics direct drive LED driver (MTN-17DDm) as well. The premium A123 Lithium Iron Phosphate 18650 cell is used here as I am just taking advantage of LED's low Vf. Still BRIGHT in Turbo mode.

Now, I will go and retire my ancient ICON Rogue flashlight.

Also, this flashlight has Nichia NVSW219CT-D280 83+ CRI, 5,000 Kelvins LED. I am surprised it is capable of over 500 Lumens when direct-driven. 


















s1248.photobucket.com


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## tops2 (Jun 6, 2016)

staticx57 said:


> 3) Jaxman E2 inexpensive single LED flashlight. Pretty basic takes an 18650 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...urements-(Nichia-219B-bargain-high-CRI-18650)



This is a pretty awesome light, especially for the price. Good tint, plenty bright, pretty floody, and inexpensive. Somewhere on the other forum, Jaxman mentioned you can order directly from them and request the light to have the 3 modes and no blinky modes. Keep in mind the light uses PWM and sounds like its not a super fast PWM. While I like the beam, I personally get a headache when I use this light..but the tint is just awesome on this one. If I didn't get a headache, I was considering ordering both tints with no blinky modes from Jaxman.


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 6, 2016)

If any of you want to use Convoy S2+ flashlight, beware of potential overheating problem. Mine do get hot on turbo mode (I had to hold the head containing light engine until it got very hot then I turn it off to set the stepdown point).


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## Wendee (Jun 6, 2016)

Dr. Mario said:


> If any of you want to use Convoy S2+ flashlight, beware of potential overheating problem. Mine do get hot on turbo mode (I had to hold the head containing light engine until it got very hot then I turn it off to set the stepdown point).



Yes, I had read that they get hot. I really like the look of the Covoy S2+ (a lot) but I ended up ordering the Covoy C8 which is a bit bigger but better for handling heat. The C8 definitely isn't a pretty light compared to the S2+ and it's a bit too big to EDC (for most people). I much prefer the look of the S2+. Oh, I should add that I really like the C8 and it's a well built light, and it's very well priced. Sorry, thought I should add that in case people think I don't like it because it's not pretty. 

So you can set the stepdown point on your S2+? That's great! So you won't have to worry about it getting too hot. I assume you can do this because of the bistro component (is that the driver?). I don't think the stock version has the option to set the stepdown?

I'm surprised to hear that the Nichia NVSW219CT-D280 puts out 500 lumens. Wow! I thought Nichia only put out around 300. Maybe that's just the Nichia219B and this newer one (219C) puts out more. Cool! Can you notice any difference in the color rendering and/or tint between the 219B & 219C? 

Your S2+ sounds great. Will you be doing a review and/or thread to show how you built it? I'd love to see that (as would others, I'm sure). I hope you do


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 6, 2016)

Convoy C8 is the right choice in my experienced opinion. The Nichia 219C can get quite hot when direct-driven on 3.3 Volts Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) cell (just like I discovered) or on 1.4 - 2.8 Amps 7135 regulator driver if run on 4.2 Volts Li-ion cell.

EDITED: Bistro is a version of modified LED flashlight firmware - as for stepdown, it uses on-die thermistor available inside most smaller 8-pins SOIC-8 microcontrollers to monitor "skin" temperature - at the set point, when it gets HOT, the LED driver bumps down to medium-low brightness. As for UI setup, it's a bit weird.


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## staticx57 (Jun 6, 2016)

tops2 said:


> This is a pretty awesome light, especially for the price. Good tint, plenty bright, pretty floody, and inexpensive. Somewhere on the other forum, Jaxman mentioned you can order directly from them and request the light to have the 3 modes and no blinky modes. Keep in mind the light uses PWM and sounds like its not a super fast PWM. While I like the beam, I personally get a headache when I use this light..but the tint is just awesome on this one. If I didn't get a headache, I was considering ordering both tints with no blinky modes from Jaxman.



I really like the Jaxman, good no frills light. I am decently sensitive to PWM, or I should say I can notice it pretty easily. But in this case it does not bug me. I have it with the 4000k color temp and I love it. I prefer it to some of the 5000k nichia lights I own, those I find too blue. I would like it better without the blinky modes but for the $17.30 I paid including shipping I am really happy with it.


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## Wendee (Jun 6, 2016)

staticx57 said:


> I really like the Jaxman, good no frills light. I am decently sensitive to PWM, or I should say I can notice it pretty easily. But in this case it does not bug me. I have it with the 4000k color temp and I love it. I prefer it to some of the 5000k nichia lights I own, those I find too blue. I would like it better without the blinky modes but for the $17.30 I paid including shipping I am really happy with it.



I read the other thread about this Jaxman and everyone is just raving about how awesome it is. One person said it's even better than the L11C Nichia (which is my favorite light!). Now I really want one and I was going to order one but then saw a post that the PWM made someone feel sick while using the light. So, I didn't go to order it (I hate feeling nauseous). 

So you can notice the PWM but it didn't make you feel nauseous or give you a headache? Do any other lights with PWM make you feel ill? I'm actually hoping you'll tell me it's really rare so I can order this light. It sounds awesome.

Update: I missed the part in the quote above your post of the person who got a headache. Sigh. Oh well. I won't be ordering this light after all. Too bad because it sounds great.


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## staticx57 (Jun 6, 2016)

Wendee said:


> I read the other thread about this Jaxman and everyone is just raving about how awesome it is. One person said it's even better than the L11C Nichia (which is my favorite light!). Now I really want one and I was going to order one but then saw a post that the PWM made someone feel sick while using the light. So, I didn't go to order it (I hate feeling nauseous).
> 
> So you can notice the PWM but it didn't make you feel nauseous or give you a headache? Do any other lights with PWM make you feel ill? I'm actually hoping you'll tell me it's really rare so I can order this light. It sounds awesome.



I actually really don't notice it. I have another light which does have easily detectable PWM but it does not make me sick either. That other light is annoying, but not nauseating, this jaxman is perfectly fine for me. If you read muakka's review you can see that the PWM never really turns the light off, just dims it. That really mitigates the effects and one would have to be really sensitive to PWM to even be bothered by it. It is cheap enough that worst comes to worse and you only use it in high(doesn't use PWM in high) then it would still be a nice light. I recommend the 4000k over the 5700k.


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## staticx57 (Jun 6, 2016)

This is what noticeable PWM looks like







This is the Jaxman


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## Wendee (Jun 6, 2016)

staticx57 said:


> I actually really don't notice it. I have another light which does have easily detectable PWM but it does not make me sick either. That other light is annoying, but not nauseating, this jaxman is perfectly fine for me. If you read muakka's review you can see that the PWM never really turns the light off, just dims it. That really mitigates the effects and one would have to be really sensitive to PWM to even be bothered by it. It is cheap enough that worst comes to worse and you only use it in high(doesn't use PWM in high) then it would still be a nice light. I recommend the 4000k over the 5700k.



LOL, I had just updated my post as you were writing yours. I keep going back & forth. OK, since the tint and color rendering are apparently out of this world (as stated by many on the other thread), maybe I'll chance it and just use it on high (if the PWM bothers me). I just saw it on hkequipment and it costs ~$33.00 CAD. Yikes! Maybe I can find it cheaper somewhere else.


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## tops2 (Jun 7, 2016)

You can search the other forum for Jaxman E2 and browse the threads. I don't remember exactly which thread but one will have a link to their store on Aliexpress I believe. The cost when I checked a long while ago is about $20 USD. I got the 5700k (?) tint but did think about the warmer tint as well.

FWIW, I tried the light again and on high, I don't get headache as bad. I think it was mentioned there's PWM on low and medium but not high. The high is plenty bright and awesome. I don't use this light as much still though as I tend to like the BLF 348 (also perfect tint and size) or my Zebralight SC5w instead.

But if you're interested in high CRI, I really recommend picking up one as it's pretty inexpensive.


As an aside...the wait for the Zebralight SC600 MKIII Plus version is just so agonizing. I'm waiting for this light and really trying hard not to buy anything else!


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## recDNA (Jun 7, 2016)

I was intrigued about the L11c but I just read 14500 not supported? Anybody try one?


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## MAD777 (Jun 7, 2016)

I have an Eagletac D25A with Nichia 219b and love it using a high amp (unprotected) 14500 battery. My only comment would be that low isn't moonlight with that fuel cell.


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## recDNA (Jun 7, 2016)

Heck, real moonlight mode isn't even bright enough for me to use as a nightlight. I'm amazed at people who find 0.1 lumen or less usable even with dark adapted eyes. Obviously they have better eyesight than I do. I need 5 lumens minimum and I am happier with 10.


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## Wendee (Jun 7, 2016)

recDNA said:


> Heck, real moonlight mode isn't even bright enough for me to use as a nightlight. I'm amazed at people who find 0.1 lumen or less usable even with dark adapted eyes. Obviously they have better eyesight than I do. I need 5 lumens minimum and I am happier with 10.



That's what I thought until about 2 nights ago. I could NOT understand how people could find their way around in the dark using sub-lumen moonlight. I had my L11C on my nightstand and when I turned it on to make a trip in the dark, it seemed too bright, so I went to cycle through to turn it "down" and it turns out it was the 0.09 lumen setting! I could NOT believe it. I thought 0.09 lumens was too bright! Unreal. So I guess, for me, "dark adapted" means waking up from being sound asleep. If I use the moonlight about 15 minutes after turning off the light, it's not bright enough to navigate. If I've been in the "dark" for hours, it's definitely bright enough. I find that strange. 

Have you tried it from when waking up in the middle of the night in the pitch black (meaning no television on, or streetlight glow from outside)?

Update: It just occurred to me that I've started taking a vitamin supplement and maybe it helped to improved my night vision? I can't think of any other reason for the change. Hmmmm....


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## recDNA (Jun 7, 2016)

Wendee said:


> That's what I thought until about 2 nights ago. I could NOT understand how people could find their way around in the dark using sub-lumen moonlight. I had my L11C on my nightstand and when I turned it on to make a trip in the dark, it seemed too bright, so I went to cycle through to turn it "down" and it turns out it was the 0.9 lumen setting! I could NOT believe it. I thought 0.9 lumens was too bright! Unreal. So I guess, for me, "dark adapted" means waking up from being sound asleep. If I use the moonlight about 15 minutes after turning off the light, it's not bright enough to navigate. If I've been in the "dark" for hours, it's definitely bright enough. I find that strange.
> 
> Have you tried it from when waking up in the middle of the night in the pitch black (meaning no television on, or streetlight glow from outside)?
> 
> Update: It just occurred to me that I've started taking a vitamin supplement and maybe it helped to improved my night vision? I can't think of any other reason for the change. Hmmmm....


Yes although many would say 0.9 lumen is too high to be called moonlight. I often wake up in the middle of the night and to navigate a strange hotel suite I need 5 lumens right away. With less I trip on things. I may see the door with 1 lumen but not the obstacles in peripheral vision.

Unless you simply never eat vegetables vitamins will not improve night vision.


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## MAD777 (Jun 7, 2016)

Hmmmm. Have we stumbled upon a new discovery? Eat more carrots = save batteries. You heard it first, here on CPF folks! LOL


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## Wendee (Jun 7, 2016)

recDNA said:


> Yes although many would say 0.9 lumen is too high to be called moonlight. I often wake up in the middle of the night and to navigate a strange hotel suite I need 5 lumens right away. With less I trip on things. I may see the door with 1 lumen but not the obstacles in peripheral vision.
> 
> Unless you simply never eat vegetables vitamins will not improve night vision.



Oh, I couldn't see any obstacles in my peripheral vision at all (on 0.09 lumens). I could only see things directly in the hotspot, but I was in my bedroom so I know what obstacles are where. You know, now I'm thinking maybe I made a mistake. After all, I was half asleep. It just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it wasn't at the 0.09 setting (although I was *sure *it was at the time). I don't know how it could seem too dim to navigate one week then too bright the next. I think I'll do a test tonight. 

Correction: The moonlight level is *0.09 *(not 0.9). I've changed this post to reflect the correct lumen output.


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## Wendee (Jun 7, 2016)

MAD777 said:


> Hmmmm. Have we stumbled upon a new discovery? Eat more carrots = save batteries. You heard it first, here on CPF folks! LOL


Sweet potatoes are good for night vision too! Maybe if we all ate nothing but orange vegetables, we wouldn't need flashlights at all. That wouldn't be any fun though


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 7, 2016)

Moon mode is definitely a bit over 1 Lumen for me. Maybe I got weird driver or a bug in Moonlight mode in Bistro firmware. Nichia 219C is definitely bright on 3.3 Volts Lithium Iron Phosphate cell - low Vf of the LED is what got my attention.


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## SG Hall (Jun 7, 2016)

ven said:


> I have been called worse than a dummy
> 
> Only a rough idea and glad it helps, I too looked for a bit of a guide and struggled to find one. It does seem a little :thinking:, but once in hand it falls into place(literally). Slight issues from the p60 seating(using the springs or not depending), to the bezel not fully screwing down or leaving a small gap like........
> 
> ...



Lol! I missed this post 

It's definitely not "by dummies" but for people like me!! Appreciate your knowledge sharing ven. 

I, too, have been called worse but probably earned the titles! 

I've just picked up a seraph from eBay ( what can possibly go wrong right??!) so now I'm going to deck it out with something triple. If it arrives as described.....[emoji15][emoji6]


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## ven (Jun 8, 2016)

Cool, look forward to impressions (and pics)


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## StorminMatt (Jun 8, 2016)

ven said:


> Wendee have a look at the cooly host, around $100 give take here
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?326040-COOLY-26650-D26-(P60)-Host-By-FiveMega
> 
> 26650 fed, p60 drop in of your choice (nichia) and good to go. I have a CQvn quad xp-g2 5000k 4 mode that starts in low in mine.



I have the Cooly. While it's not a bad host, one thing I don't like about it is the depth at which the module is placed in the host. This results in a good deal of beam cutoff, which is detrimental if you want a wide, floody beam. I would therefore recommend the Cooly host more if a throwy light is desired. If a wider beam is desired, the TnC 26650 host is a better choice. It is certainly not as heavily finned. And it will NOT work with a Cryos bezel. But you actually have a choice of two different bezels - the regular head and the more heavily finned V2 head. At $125 for the light with the V2 head, costs a little more than the Cooly. Or, if you have around $500, you can go with copper.


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## eraursls1984 (Jun 8, 2016)

Wendee said:


> That's what I thought until about 2 nights ago. I could NOT understand how people could find their way around in the dark using sub-lumen moonlight. I had my L11C on my nightstand and when I turned it on to make a trip in the dark, it seemed too bright, so I went to cycle through to turn it "down" and it turns out it was the 0.9 lumen setting! I could NOT believe it. I thought 0.9 lumens was too bright! Unreal. So I guess, for me, "dark adapted" means waking up from being sound asleep. If I use the moonlight about 15 minutes after turning off the light, it's not bright enough to navigate. If I've been in the "dark" for hours, it's definitely bright enough. I find that strange.


.9 lumens is bright (I wouldn't call it moonlight), it will illuminate an entire room if you have dark adapted eyes. If you're talking about the L11C I believe they claim a .09 lumen moonlight mode. If it's the same as the L10 (which they claim the same modes with the same emitters) Selfbuilt's review showed the Nichia 219B with a moonlight mode ranging from .001-.06 lumens. This is a really low moonlight mode and the reason I skipped the L11C. I do like a low that low, but I need something in the .25-.35 ballpark to compliment it. It takes roughly .25-.35 to light up a path at night so I can see in my peripheral vision. My go to is my SC52w in the highest moon mode, they claim .34 but it's lower than that.


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## ven (Jun 8, 2016)

Agree Matt , sent the link for the TNC to wendee. 

The cooly is a comfy size which I like with 26650's. But as you say with the drop ins, they sit far in which is not ideal for flood. Flip side is the flexibility for various drop ins with the two locking rings to adjust .The mcClicky is not the best either IMO , too sensitive and feels cheap with the audible click! I have many standard clickies that feel so much better.....


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## Wendee (Jun 8, 2016)

eraursls1984 said:


> .9 lumens is bright (I wouldn't call it moonlight), it will illuminate an entire room if you have dark adapted eyes. If you're talking about the L11C I believe they claim a .09 lumen moonlight mode. If it's the same as the L10 (which they claim the same modes with the same emitters) Selfbuilt's review showed the Nichia 219B with a moonlight mode ranging from .001-.06 lumens. This is a really low moonlight mode and the reason I skipped the L11C. I do like a low that low, but I need something in the .25-.35 ballpark to compliment it. It takes roughly .25-.35 to light up a path at night so I can see in my peripheral vision. My go to is my SC52w in the highest moon mode, they claim .34 but it's lower than that.



Yes, the L11C is *0.09 *lumen (not 0.9)! I was just on SBflashlights ordering another one and noticed that. I'm going to update my posts to correct the lumen level to 0.09.  Yes, I saw Selfbuilt's review and saw the different moonlight output levels. Isn't that strange? Why they vary like that, I don't understand. I like my moonlight output level. I have no way to measure what the output actually is though. As long as it's below 1 lumen, I'm happy.


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## eraursls1984 (Jun 8, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Yes, I saw Selfbuilt's review and saw the different moonlight output levels. Isn't that strange? Why they vary like that, I don't understand. I like my moonlight output level. I have no way to measure what the output actually is though. As long as it's below 1 lumen, I'm happy.


Output varies from LED to LED, but it's pretty close, percentage wise, at modes higher than a lumen or so. Moonlight modes vary at a higher percentage, although this one seems unusually high (in my limited experience).


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## recDNA (Jun 8, 2016)

Wendee said:


> That's what I thought until about 2 nights ago. I could NOT understand how people could find their way around in the dark using sub-lumen moonlight. I had my L11C on my nightstand and when I turned it on to make a trip in the dark, it seemed too bright, so I went to cycle through to turn it "down" and it turns out it was the 0.09 lumen setting! I could NOT believe it. I thought 0.09 lumens was too bright! Unreal. So I guess, for me, "dark adapted" means waking up from being sound asleep. If I use the moonlight about 15 minutes after turning off the light, it's not bright enough to navigate. If I've been in the "dark" for hours, it's definitely bright enough. I find that strange.
> 
> Have you tried it from when waking up in the middle of the night in the pitch black (meaning no television on, or streetlight glow from outside)?
> 
> Update: It just occurred to me that I've started taking a vitamin supplement and maybe it helped to improved my night vision? I can't think of any other reason for the change. Hmmmm....


Your room is more tidy than mine!


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## markr6 (Jun 8, 2016)

Wendee said:


> That's what I thought until about 2 nights ago. I could NOT understand how people could find their way around in the dark using sub-lumen moonlight. I had my L11C on my nightstand and when I turned it on to make a trip in the dark, it seemed too bright, so I went to cycle through to turn it "down" and it turns out it was the 0.09 lumen setting! I could NOT believe it. I thought 0.09 lumens was too bright! Unreal. So I guess, for me, "dark adapted" means waking up from being sound asleep. If I use the moonlight about 15 minutes after turning off the light, it's not bright enough to navigate. If I've been in the "dark" for hours, it's definitely bright enough. I find that strange.
> 
> Have you tried it from when waking up in the middle of the night in the pitch black (meaning no television on, or streetlight glow from outside)?
> 
> Update: It just occurred to me that I've started taking a vitamin supplement and maybe it helped to improved my night vision? I can't think of any other reason for the change. Hmmmm....



Absolutely! It doesn't take much at all. Sometimes the tiny light on AC adapters, like some cell phone chargers, is enough to guide me in the dark. <1lm is very useful.


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 8, 2016)

For reference, though, the 6mm x 1.5mm Tritium vial installed in my blacklight flashlight is supposed to be 0.025 Lumens or so - extremely dim but I can see it in the dark. 12mm x 2mm Tritium vial keychain marker is kind of bright enough (0.04 Lumens estimated) for me to find the outlet where I can plug in the light. Moonlight mode is definitely ten times brighter than that though.


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## markr6 (Jun 9, 2016)

Pulled out the L11C which I haven't been using much. What a great option. Very comfortable in your pocket with a nearly flat, deep carry clip.


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## Wendee (Jun 9, 2016)

markr6 said:


> Pulled out the L11C which I haven't been using much. What a great option. Very comfortable in your pocket with a nearly flat, deep carry clip.



I have mine in my pocket today too! I usually carry a AAA but wanted a light with longer runtime today. It is comfortable, doesn't feel too big at all. 



Dr. Mario said:


> For reference, though, the 6mm x 1.5mm Tritium vial installed in my blacklight flashlight is supposed to be 0.025 Lumens or so - extremely dim but I can see it in the dark. 12mm x 2mm Tritium vial keychain marker is kind of bright enough (0.04 Lumens estimated) for me to find the outlet where I can plug in the light. Moonlight mode is definitely ten times brighter than that though.



Tritium vials look so cool and I really love the idea of being able to find a flashlight in the dark. I had read something about radiation coming from these (a post somewhere), which stopped me from looking further into lights that have vial slots. It probably isn't a serious problem or no one would use them (and they're very popular). Do you happen to have any info about that? I couldn't really find much info on radiation from tritium vials, in particular (scientific stats). Maybe what I read about radiation isn't even true? That would be awesome if it wasn't true. I'd definitely be interested in them, if that were the case.


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## eraursls1984 (Jun 9, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Tritium vials look so cool and I really love the idea of being able to find a flashlight in the dark. I had read something about radiation coming from these, which stopped me from looking further into lights that have vial slots. It probably isn't a serious problem or no one would use them (and they're very popular). Do you happen to have any info about that? I couldn't really find any info on radiation from tritium vials, in particular. Maybe what I read about radiation isn't even true? That would be awesome if it wasn't true. I'd definitely be interested in them, if that were the case.


I think it's only an issue if the vial breaks. It is so lite it will go up into the atmosphere fast. It's only an issue if you are directly over it when the vial breaks. At least this is what I've found when researching tritium. 

Other tidbits about tritium 
It's used in night sights for guns. 
I think its the most expensive thing on earth by weight.


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## recDNA (Jun 9, 2016)

Because it is the lightest other than deuterium and protium (common hydrogen)!


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 10, 2016)

Yup. Tritium is a radioactive isotope of Hydrogen - the heaviest of the other two. Its radioactivity is exploited for usage in permanently lit glow marker (color differs, depending on the phosphors desired), and is somewhat expensive than the regular glow in the dark paint, although it will keep lighting up for ten years or so.

And, like what the others pointed out, the only main hazard is breakage of the vial - if encased and unbroken, there would be almost zero radiation hazard. So, plastic encased keychain marker is recommended (or more like suggested). I only chose to fit the loose Tritium vial in my blacklight flashlight (encased in UV curable transparent glue) is because it's meant to be permanently installed into the tailcap so I can quickly tell if the flashlight I took out of holster in the dark is a blacklight flashlight, and I will know which end is safe to look at when it's on.


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## Fireclaw18 (Jun 10, 2016)

If you try taking a flashlight covered with tritium vials through airport security will you set off radiation detectors and get tackled by the police who think you have a dirty bomb?


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## Dr. Mario (Jun 10, 2016)

If you have a flashlight that has more than six vials, oh yeah, it will set off the alarm. I only have one vial affixed into my blacklight flashlight, and it's quite small, so nope, it won't set off the alarm unless airport have bought $ 100 million radiation alarm that has outlandish sensitivity (which is impossible, the Geiger Muller tubes and radiation intensifier scintillator plates can only do so much).


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## Wendee (Jun 10, 2016)

Dr. Mario said:


> If you have a flashlight that has more than six vials, oh yeah, it will set off the alarm. [...]



Really?? :huh: Can you imagine? If they can be detected, they must be giving off some kind of radiation or something, no? Maybe they aren't that safe, sigh. I was looking at a light with tritium vials today. Maybe I'll hold off for a bit...yikes. oo:


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 10, 2016)

Looking for more knowledgeable info on tritium. Some of my watches have tritium markers. If the Tritium is uncased in epoxy there should be no issues. 

Bill


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## Seattle Sparky (Jun 11, 2016)

Just some more different 219B flavors. It has to be my favorite LED at this moment due it is hcri and neutral-warm tint that I like. Some underpowered due to low efficiency/high heat issues at higher output compared to other new LEDs with less CRI, but for edc tasks it's more than enough.

From left to right: HDS Rotary 200N, HDS Clicky 170N, Malkoff MD2 with M361 219B V2, Malkoff MDC 1AA 219BV2, Peak Eager, Cryos 3p host with Overheady A33 v2 triple.










O


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## Wendee (Jun 12, 2016)

Very nice! Thanks for posting this. 
I love the copper Cryos bezel you have there. I'm looking to buy one but they're not easy to find.


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## recDNA (Jun 12, 2016)

Odd that the Malkoff 219b is so pink. I would have sworn it was a 219a.


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## ven (Jun 12, 2016)

Yes very nice line up! 

Another fan of the cu cryos, mine on an l2t




Right now my cu cryos has an EDC plus 4000k xp-g2 triple inside it.....................very nice tint!


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## Seattle Sparky (Jun 12, 2016)

Wendee said:


> Very nice! Thanks for posting this.
> I love the copper Cryos bezel you have there. I'm looking to buy one but they're not easy to find.


Check out cryos illumination website, they have them in stock.


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## Wendee (Jun 12, 2016)

Seattle Sparky said:


> Check out cryos illumination website, they have them in stock.



When I try to add one to my cart (copper), I get the message: "We don't have enough Copper Cryos Cooling Bezel stock on hand for the quantity you selected. Please try again." :shrug:

Hopefully I can find a used one on CPF because these things are pretty expensive & shipping isn't included either, yikes. I might start a "WTB" thread for one.


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## wimmer21 (Feb 11, 2017)

akhyar said:


> If you willing to go the custom route, you can order Sinner triple 219b or 219c from Sulman.
> If the price is too step, how about triple 219c from Reylight which starts from US$89?



Hi akhyar. Nice lights. 4000K or...?


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## akhyar (Feb 11, 2017)

wimmer21 said:


> Hi akhyar. Nice lights. 4000K or...?



The Sinner is 219B 4700K while the ReyLight is 219C 5000K


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## jon_slider (Feb 12, 2017)

Yes I EDC Nichia 219 in the form of a Worm or Tool w N219b 4500k (lego to Maratac body), or a LAD w N219c 4000k, or an Astrolux M03 w N219b 5000k


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## wimmer21 (Feb 13, 2017)

akhyar said:


> The Sinner is 219B 4700K while the ReyLight is 219C 5000K



Cool! I mean... neutral! ;-)

I love both of those and have been inquiring about availability. No luck yet though.


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## thegameisrigged (Feb 13, 2017)

My E14 with the 219B comes tomorrow. It will be my first high cri/Nichia light. Can't wait.


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## MAD777 (Feb 13, 2017)

I have a cool story, I mean neutral story... 

Just the other day, my daughter & I were shopping for kitchen cabinets at Lowes or Home Depot. It was after dark and the store lighting is far from bright enough, plus it's an awful tint and there are shadows everywhere. 

Well, I had my Nichia 219b flashlight in my pocket. I explained to my daughter that this was no ordinary flashlight beam. That she could rest assured the color she saw would be accurate. 

Sure enough, she picked out the cabinets! It would have been a wasted trip, had I not been carrying that Nichia.


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