# McR-20 modified for Cree XR-E LE *LOTS OF PICTURES*



## 4sevens (Oct 30, 2006)

Alright peoples. I took out the Cree XR-E LE's in one of my A19's
and got it to work with an Aleph2 head by shaving about .05 off
the base of the McR20. The end result is phenomenal. It throws
an intense hotspot that is brighter than an Aleph1 with a lux III
UWOJ driven at 930ma!!

Enough of my words, on with the pictures....

The usual suspects:
Left to right
A19 XR-E GD-800
Aleph1 Wiz2-930 UWOJ
Aleph2 XR-E GD-800






Left to right
A19 XR-E GD-800
Aleph2 XR-E GD-800
Aleph1 Wiz2-930 UWOJ





Comparing the A19 with the Aleph2 on multiple exposures:











Now the Aleph2 with the Aleph1 over driven lux III:











And here is the modified McR20:


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## Data (Oct 30, 2006)

Very nice, thanks for the pics.


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## H22A (Oct 30, 2006)

Good job 4sevens.

Hotspot is definately brighter, but how about sidespill? What method do you use for shaving off reflector? Thanks.


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## 4sevens (Oct 30, 2006)

H22A said:


> Good job 4sevens.
> 
> Hotspot is definately brighter, but how about sidespill? What method do you use for shaving off reflector? Thanks.



The aleph2 side spill is wider than the A19 and the aleph1.

I shaved using my trust li-ion 35k rpm cordless dremel


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## kenster (Oct 30, 2006)

That`s great David!:thumbsup: I haven`t recieved my A19 Cree XR-E lights yet but I just recieved some Cree XR-E emitters and stars today. I have one working on an Mcr 19 but now I know to do some more playing tomorrow with other reflectors.:rock:


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## bombelman (Oct 30, 2006)

DUDE, great find !!!!

How does this thing throw ?
(e.g. outdoors at 30~60ft compared to McR+lux combo ?)

Cheers !!


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## havand (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm happy that it is looking like some of the higher end modified lights can be modified to use it fairly well. However, the production lights seem to be suffering :/ But goodnews for those of you owning the customs  Thanks 4seven for taking the risk!


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## H22A (Oct 30, 2006)

Thanks 4sevens.

This Cree craze phenomenal is going berserk, me too  Any new information at this stage is mostly welcome.

Maybe I have to get one of those cordless thing to save time from sanding.


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## havand (Oct 30, 2006)

I've been sitting here looking at those pics...And, is it just me or does the Cree not look as bright as i expected it to when compared to the Lux3 U-bin? I know the Lux is being driven 130ma harder, but it isn't the startling difference i've seen elsewhere... 

Ok, after looking at them again....That sidespill is noticeable on the Cree, but not the lux...I guess that's where the extra light is going?


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## 4sevens (Oct 30, 2006)

havand said:


> I've been sitting here looking at those pics...And, is it just me or does the Cree not look as bright as i expected it to when compared to the Lux3 U-bin? I know the Lux is being driven 130ma harder, but it isn't the startling difference i've seen elsewhere...
> 
> Ok, after looking at them again....That sidespill is noticeable on the Cree, but not the lux...I guess that's where the extra light is going?



Quick reply... note that the Lux III is using a 27mm reflector
Whereas the cree is using a 20mm reflector.

pi * r^2 tells us 

the 27mm reflector = 573mm squared
the 20mm reflector = 314mm squared

Thats about twice reflector cross section area, so the 
aleph1 has a 2x advantage over the 20mm.

Plus the radiation patter of the cree is narrower so even less is going to the reflector.

Given those variables I'd say the cree is doing quite well.


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## havand (Oct 30, 2006)

4sevens said:


> Quick reply... note that the Lux III is using a 27mm reflector
> Whereas the cree is using a 20mm reflector.
> 
> pi * r^2 tells us
> ...




Ah, gotcha. I'm gonna absorb that while i sit here doing some work. 

Everytime I think i've sorta got a handle on what is going on with these lights, someone knocks me down a peg (in a friendly manner). Thanks for the info! I honestly hadn't considered the reflector size difference...I saw it, but just sorta glossed over it when looking at the pics.


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## McGizmo (Oct 30, 2006)

Cool 4Sevens! :thumbsup:

If you do a similar mod to a McR-38 you will be real pleased with the intensity of the spot. I did one and saw 10,000 lux.


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## 4sevens (Oct 30, 2006)

McGizmo said:


> Cool 4Sevens! :thumbsup:
> 
> If you do a similar mod to a McR-38 you will be real pleased with the intensity of the spot. I did one and saw 10,000 lux.



:huh: 10k lux at 1m??? WOW!


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## kenster (Oct 31, 2006)

4sevens said:


> :huh: 10k lux at 1m??? WOW!


 
David, I`m already cutting on an Mcr38! These Cree`s are fun!


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## mosport (Oct 31, 2006)

Very impressive McR20 mod 4sevens :twothumbs

Interesting to see how other reflectors similar in dimension to the McR20 will work when trimmed (ie: IMS 20mm)

Thanks for sharing!


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## Led_Blind (Oct 31, 2006)

I just got my hands on some cree's and was about to post the question about the A3 reflector... Thanks  if i get this done i will do comparisons with the HD45 

About how much would have to be removed for proper focus? 




McGizmo said:


> Cool 4Sevens! :thumbsup:
> 
> If you do a similar mod to a McR-38 you will be real pleased with the intensity of the spot. I did one and saw 10,000 lux.


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## cryhavok (Oct 31, 2006)

WOW super impressive. I hope they release the empty LE for the Cree.


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## Ganp (Oct 31, 2006)

Nice mod :goodjob: Nice beamshots..Nice torches..
Colin.


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## Anglepoise (Oct 31, 2006)

Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison.
From what I have read before, I got the strong impression that one needed a long reflector to correctly capture and focus the beam.

With the McR20, you have done the opposite and you are very happy with the results.

What do you think is happening? Could the results you are getting with the cut down McR20 be mainly due to the beam pattern of the Cree with NO reflector.

I would love to see a comparison photo including an XR-E with no reflector but installed in an Aleph II head.


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## Beamhead (Oct 31, 2006)

McGizmo said:


> Cool 4Sevens! :thumbsup:
> 
> If you do a similar mod to a McR-38 you will be real pleased with the intensity of the spot. I did one and saw 10,000 lux.


 
Pics...........Details.................


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## 4sevens (Oct 31, 2006)

Anglepoise said:


> What do you think is happening? Could the results you are getting with the cut down McR20 be mainly due to the beam pattern of the Cree with NO reflector.
> 
> I would love to see a comparison photo including an XR-E with no reflector but installed in an Aleph II head.



Absolutely not. I tried the A2 head without a reflector and it was an
even flood. If you look at the picture above that looks directly into the head
you will see the modified mcr20 reflector filled with yellow.


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## matrixshaman (Oct 31, 2006)

Ooooh Oooh Ooooh! Nice job! Very nice spot on the XR-E with this reflector. While I think such a reflector is the best way to go I wonder if anyone has seen the Optics shown on the Cree web site made for the XR-E. They've got small pillow, medium and some other styles that look interesting but I don't belive any of them were aspherical like what Newbie use to produce a long throw with intense spot (2" lens - I don't think it would be realistic for most purposes in a flashlight). Thanks 4sevens for adding to the new pool of knowledge on this exciting LED.


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## Anglepoise (Oct 31, 2006)

4sevens said:


> Absolutely not. I tried the A2 head without a reflector and it was an
> even flood. If you look at the picture above that looks directly into the head
> you will see the modified mcr20 reflector filled with yellow.



Good point. This makes it all more exciting when a popular reflector like the McR 20 can be modded to produce these excellent results.

Thanks for the clarification.


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## McGizmo (Oct 31, 2006)

Anglepoise said:


> Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison.
> From what I have read before, I got the strong impression that one needed a long reflector to correctly capture and focus the beam.
> 
> With the McR20, you have done the opposite and you are very happy with the results.
> ...



David,
I am guessing here more than claiming any real knowledge but you don't need a long (narrow exit angle) reflector to focus the beam of the cree but you do need such a reflector to capture more of its output. THe McR-20 is one of the deeper reflectors in its size class.

If you look at the distribution graph of the XR-E compared to a luxeon, you can see that beyond the 75 degree viewing angle, the luxeon has a higher percentage of relative output than the XR-E does. However, relative to eachother, the XR-E is in some cases twice as powerful as the Luxeon in output. To simplify, 20% of the XR-E's relative output might be comparable to the 40% relative output of the Luxeon. There are some graph overlays floating around showng the Luxeon VS XR-E output distribution. If one were to double the amplitude of the XR-E relative to the Luxeon, I think you can see where you can get superior lux from an XR-E in a reflector that is not ideally suited at capturing the brunt of its output.

I have one of those aspherical lenses like Newbie has posted about and I also measured in the high 30k lux at one meter. This is with a good amount of the off axis light not contacting the lens for colimation. I mention this to illustrate the potential of the XR-E when an optic does work on its "major output". With twice the output, you can best the lower performing LED even with an optic that is not optimal for the XR-E. :thinking: :shrug:

I had coupled a modified McR-38 with the Cree in a test fixture and not in a light with the measured 10k lux. I just put a DB917 XR LE in an Aleph 3 head with a modified McR-38 and had to put a jumper ground ring to bridge the gap as the LE goes in to the head further than original design. With this build that I have not attempted to optimize focus on, I measure 9000 lux compared to an Aleph3 on hand that measures in at 5600 lux. Looking at the beams, the real apparent difference is the much greater intensity in the spill of the XR VS the Luxeon. The tints of these two are obviously different enough to make it dificult for the human eye to gauge spot intensity (the XR is warm and the luxeon is cool blue) but in ambient daylight, the Luxeon projects a tight spot that seems to be by itself wheras the XR projects a similar spot but obvious spill surrounding the spot.

I think another important point to consider is that the highest relative intensity of the Luxeon LED also exits the reflector of a light without being redirected by the reflector. I believe the reason SF with their Darpa projects went to a combo optic of TIR and lens was to have management of all of the light produced by the luxeon. Unfortunately I suspect that most of these optics will not mate up with the XR due to the likely case where the lens portion of the optic is physically in a space where the XR lens needs to reside. This may not be true in all cases and I leave it to others to find out!


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## Amonra (Oct 31, 2006)

will the mcr joker reflectors work with the XR-E's ? if i remember correctly the joker reflectors were made for the joker luxeon led's which had the die deeper down. the XR-E's also have the die that is deeper down so will the joker reflectors work better with less modifying ?

Also this may sound stupid but what if you lightly sanded the lens of the XR-E led to get a wider beam pattern ? would it work with normal Luxeon reflectors then ?


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## Anglepoise (Oct 31, 2006)

Don,
Thanks for taking the time to clarify. Like others I am reading and re reading everything I can about how the XR-E is going to effect us and it is fascinating. Lots to digest.


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## jch79 (Oct 31, 2006)

Anglepoise said:


> Lots to digest.


Man did you hit that nail on the head. I just bought all the stuff required to do some minor modding - Soldering station, Dremel, DMM, etc., and then the Cree XR-E hits CPF the very same week. No problem!


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## dabiscake (Oct 31, 2006)

4Sevens, if you have the time, could you check the XR-E with the common 17, 20, 27mm. Do you think there's hope for those too if a bit of sanding's involved? Also, I don't think I've read anybody try this new Cree on our trusty Fraen optic? Any thoughts? Thanks.


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## Kryosphinx (Oct 31, 2006)

dabiscake said:


> 4Sevens, if you have the time, could you check the XR-E with the common 17, 20, 27mm. Do you think there's hope for those too if a bit of sanding's involved? Also, I don't think I've read anybody try this new Cree on our trusty Fraen optic? Any thoughts? Thanks.



+1. Definitely try these with the IMS reflectors, if you have time. McR-18 would be nice too.


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## McGizmo (Oct 31, 2006)

Amonra,
A -J reflector will require about .015" less material to remove so it may be prefferable depending on the rest of the geometry involved in the mod. Sanding on the glass dome of the XR-E will diffuse light at this location which is well above the "image" location.

When I first started working with the XR-E, I compared a modified McR-20 with a modified McR19 and found close to parity in lux with the McR-19 having a slight edge over the McR-20. In terms of spill intensity and transition from spot to spill, the McR-19 had a clear prefference to me. I would be curious if 4sevens were to reverse the LE's in these two examples and see if the same results come about. :shrug: :thinking: This thread sidetracked me and I went and modified another McR-20 and compared it with a McR-19 with a repeat in my initial results. The spot from the McR-20 has an apparent brightness due to the sharp drop in spill adjacent but I still see a bit more lux measured on the meter from the A-19.

In the beam shots above, the McR-20 looks to have a brighter spot intensity than the McR-19 but I assume these are two different LED's?


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## jch79 (Oct 31, 2006)

Hey guys :wave:

I wrote David asking him his method for doing this, since I'm setting up an A2 light right now from scratch... this was his reply: (published with his permission!)

"I used a sanding disc [with a Dremel]. The reflector would get really hot so I used leather gloves. Even then it took 3-4 times since I had to let it cool down. The reflector was not loose. The LE for the cree is designed to be a bit talled - probably compensating for the low die height."

As soon as I get my A2 reflector from the shoppe, I know what I'm doing!

john


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## Kiessling (Oct 31, 2006)

The corona and spill are critical for a great beam IMHO ... and if the modded McR-20 has a beam similar to a LuxIII/McR-27 then this won't cut it for me ... a needle spot in a big pale corona is way inferior to a nice and tight corona and spill.
Unless space in the light was so critical that a McR-19 won't fit.

But it is interesting to see that actually one *can* get a technically good beam from a McR-20. Cheers to 4x7 for the work and presentation :thumbsup:

Nice to see how quickly and professionally this new LED gets integrated here ...  

bernie


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## jch79 (Oct 31, 2006)

Good point Bernie! It would actually be interesting to see it compared to a LuxIII Aleph 2.


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## Led_Blind (Oct 31, 2006)

Don, what modifications did you make to the A3 reflector?


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## 4sevens (Nov 1, 2006)

McGizmo said:


> ...I would be curious if 4sevens were to reverse the LE's in these two examples and see if the same results come about. :shrug: :thinking:



Sorry i finally got around to doing the swap...
Instead of swapping the LE's, I swapped the hosts,
which essentially is the same thing 

Left side is the original, Right side is after the swap























Interesting huh? I have a theory... The mcr20 has just 1mm more in
diameter than the a19, but every bit helps, and especially
since the close to 0 degrees, the more light is reflected.

Also, I can't figure out why the mcr20 mod has a darker area around the 
corona. If I raise the reflector just a tad it reduces the effect but it's still
there. I thought it was the oring in the front, but removing the oring 
doesn't help. it could also be the bezel. I'll have to experiment some more.


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## modamag (Nov 1, 2006)

Could it be that after David's modifcation it's now focusing to a fixed point instead of infinity?

David, if you have a chance could you increase the illumination distance by 2-3x and see what happens.

Really cool stuff going on here.


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## easilyled (Nov 1, 2006)

4sevens, I know the McR27 is supposed to be the wrong shape completely,
but I wondered if you tried the CreeLE in the A1 with this reflector just
for the hell of it?

(since it was there and you had a surprising result from the McR20)


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## 4sevens (Nov 1, 2006)

modamag said:


> Could it be that after David's modifcation it's now focusing to a fixed point instead of infinity?
> 
> David, if you have a chance could you increase the illumination distance by 2-3x and see what happens.
> 
> Really cool stuff going on here.



I've done it and the modded mcr20 out throws the a19. My guess is still
the 1mm more diameter than the a19. I don't presume to know don's formula
but in general properly made reflectors are parabola's in principle. The cree's
die is simply deeper. Also I don't know how exactly is the dome affecting
the beam. 

On a side note, anyone notice the die is offcentered? maybe it's
an illusion, but if it is indeed off, you can't just move the emitter since
the dome is fixed in relation to the die. Anyway, does it appear off to anyone?



easilyled said:


> 4sevens, I know the McR27 is supposed to be the wrong shape completely,
> but I wondered if you tried the CreeLE in the A1 with this reflector just
> for the hell of it?
> 
> (since it was there and you had a surprising result from the McR20)



No I'm not willing to mess up a mcr27. I know kenster is working on one


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## Kryosphinx (Nov 1, 2006)

Do you have a McR-18 on hand that you could try too? Have you tried any of the IMS reflectors?


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## McGizmo (Nov 1, 2006)

David,
The McR-20 has a longer focal length than the McR-19 does so it is bound to be beter at collimating light that hits it. It is also relatively deep for its diameter class and can manage a reasonable amount of light, even with the narrow viewing angle of the XR-E as your beam shots show. I played around some more as well and think that the lux honors, though slight. would go to the McR-20 if properly aligned with the XR-E. However the McR-19 can give you someintensity in its spot and when you move out of the spot and into the fringe of spot into spill, the McR-19 gives you significant lux in this region as compared to the McR-20, ceteris paribus. I believe you have a couple XR-E's there with enough difference in flux that the "results" are skewed in favor of the brighter LED. 

The McR-20 that I modified is hosted in an Aleph 2 head and I am surprised that you have set up your mod package in the longer A-19 head. :thinking:

I also tried a McR-18 and 16 early on and felt that they were just too short with too wide of an exit angle to take advantage of the XR-E's output. The beam becomes an awesome flood with an aftermention of a spot. I think what pleases me with the A-19 is the powerful flood you get and still a powerful spot in its own right, not to mention that it can best a luxeon light in similar size package and drive level. 

If one wants to maximize the potential for throw, a lens would be best. Then again, you can see the 10k range of lux witha reflector using theXR-E and that is nothing to be shy about. 

I had been leaning towards deep reflectors with the Luxeons in a desire to get the spill up to par with the spot and the XR-E makes this much easier to accomplish. I admit this is a subjective preference and not necessarily appropriate in all cases or ideal.


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## cy (Nov 1, 2006)

good job!


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## 4sevens (Nov 1, 2006)

McGizmo said:


> David,
> The McR-20 has a longer focal length than the McR-19 does so it is bound to be beter at collimating light that hits it. It is also relatively deep for its diameter class and can manage a reasonable amount of light, even with the narrow viewing angle of the XR-E as your beam shots show. I played around some more as well and think that the lux honors, though slight. would go to the McR-20 if properly aligned with the XR-E. However the McR-19 can give you someintensity in its spot and when you move out of the spot and into the fringe of spot into spill, the McR-19 gives you significant lux in this region as compared to the McR-20, ceteris paribus. I believe you have a couple XR-E's there with enough difference in flux that the "results" are skewed in favor of the brighter LED.
> 
> The McR-20 that I modified is hosted in an Aleph 2 head and I am surprised that you have set up your mod package in the longer A-19 head. :thinking:



I agree that the McR-19 give some incredible flood. The contrast between
the flood and spot not drastic to cause your eyes to have to adjust when moving your eyes between the two.

The previous post swapped the XR-E's LE's to show that it is not the brighter 
XR-E making the difference.

Also, the modded McR-20 was not in the A19 head, rather it was in an aleph2
head.


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## greenLED (Nov 1, 2006)

4sevens said:


> ...by shaving about .05 off...


Pardon the English-impaired, but is that 0.05"? Just triple-checking before I kill a reflector).


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## 4sevens (Nov 1, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Pardon the English-impaired, but is that 0.05"? Just triple-checking before I kill a reflector).



My dad borrowed my caliper so I don't have a way to measure. I basically 
took a little little bit off at a time and checked the focal length to get as much
yellow in the reflector as possible. At one point you'll have to enlarge the
hole carefully with an xacto knife without removing the reflector coating.
If you remove material off the base until it fits the cree it will be too much.


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## Nitroz (Nov 1, 2006)

4sevens said:


> On a side note, anyone notice the die is offcentered? maybe it's
> an illusion, but if it is indeed off, you can't just move the emitter since
> the dome is fixed in relation to the die. Anyway, does it appear off to anyone?



David,

Is this on a star or just the emitter?

The XR-E I have on a star seems off center on the star in my QIII. Maybe I am just off a little.


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## bombelman (Nov 1, 2006)

greenLED said:


> Pardon the English-impaired, but is that 0.05"? Just triple-checking before I kill a reflector).


lol, I was going to ask the same thing


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## Led_Blind (Nov 1, 2006)

What about an A3 reflector, can it be modified to do the same?


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 1, 2006)

David, IIRC Don said it's typical for a dark ring to be around the hotspot/corona. This is also confirmed with the Cree UV in a 2C mag reflector, which AFAIK the UV has the same beam angle as the white XR-E. It must be how the light exits the dome, my guess is the glass lens has some internal reflection and the dark ring is between where light from the die is exiting, and the light reflected by the dome that normaly would be obscured by the metal package itself.


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## wquiles (Nov 1, 2006)

Great thread. Thanks 4sevens and Don for all of the valuable information :rock: 

Will


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## McGizmo (Nov 2, 2006)

4Sevens,
I see a difference in the swap but no matter. I think the modified McR-20 gets the spot trophy. Personally, I give thebeam trophy to the A19 but it is a subjective call, to be sure. Below are an Aleph 19XR and an Aleph2 with modified McR-20-XR-E both driven with GD700's. 






While I had the camera out, I also got a shot of an Aleph3 (unknown Lux bin) and an Aleph3-XR mod:






I really like the boost the XR gives to the spill of these lights.


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## Led_Blind (Nov 2, 2006)

Don, no one has answered and you have an a3 already modded. What do i do to the reflecor to obtain correct focus. I have already mounted a cree to an existing LE on a 1\2 cm copper post. How much material needs to be paired away?


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## McGizmo (Nov 2, 2006)

Led_Blind,
I have not been keeping notes on these mods and don't claim to have zeroed in on optimal focus. I think I took of about .090" from the rear of a McR-38J and then advanced the LE into the reflector until the beem looked proper. I did have to add a jumper for the ground path betwen tube and can lip. Sorry but it was a hasty mod just to get another bench mark.


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## modamag (Nov 2, 2006)

=== Click on picture for full size ===
* Note max lux measurement mode taken
Camera Setting: Manual, F2.8, 1/500s, +0.0EV, ISO800, AE lock
Left: McR-19, XR-E P2, GD @ 815mA -> 1750 [email protected]
Right: Modded McR-20, XR-E P2, Flupic @ 845mA -> 1400 [email protected]

To the naked eye the McR-20 is brighter due to the sharp transistion between the spot and corona. But lux reading will show that's it's 25% less than the McR-19.

*Don:* that fresh Pacific air magic is still @ work. I tell ya it gotta be something in those Mai Tai.

*David:* nice mod 

BTW: Here's a comparison of a A19/XRE vs a greatly overdriven HDS Premium :thinking:



=== Click on picture for full size ===
Left: McR-19, XR-E P2, GD @ 815mA -> 1750 [email protected]
Right: HDS, S-bin, Flupic @ 1200mA -> 970 [email protected]


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## easilyled (Nov 2, 2006)

I think that looking at the beamshots after the swap (ie on the right),
the A19's hotspot is just as bright as the A2's with modified 20mm 
(if not brighter).

It may not be so obvious though because of all the flood in the A19's 
beamshot as well.


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## Kryosphinx (Nov 2, 2006)

I've modified an IMS20 reflector for these LED's. I did it the same way 4sevens did and got similar results. Tight very bright spot. The smoothness makes it filled with artifacts though. I also have the darker halo next to the hotspot. I think that this is because the portion of the reflector that contributes to the corona isn't being used, so it appears to be a dark spot.

I noticed that optimal focus required the reflector to be positioned partway down the XR-E's reflector. If I were to mod another reflector, I would bore out the hole to fit the silver reflector, as opposed to sanding from the back. Since I took ~.05 off the back of the reflector, just plopping the XR-E through an unsanded reflector with a bored hole might just put the XR-E at optimal focus.


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## McGizmo (Nov 2, 2006)

The XR-E is not as pleasing on a white wall as the Luxeon LED. It has a ghost that effects the projected image. There are apparent contrasts in the illumination fieldwhich detract from viewing the reflected beam itself. When the beam is used to illuminate real objects and it is the objects themselves we focus our attention on, the artifacts and inconsistancies in illumination density are not significant, IMHO.


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## 4sevens (Nov 2, 2006)

I did some walking tonight with both lights and the flood in the a19 is just incredible.
It seems that some of the flood is also coming off of the reflector too.

The modded mcr-20 does have that very annoying dark area around the spot.

Don, I agree, the mcr20 does have a very slight lux advantage over the a19, but it's
a rather small difference. It's not worth the trade off of the wonderful flood from the a19.

The modded mcr20 does have two advantages however, 1) aleph2's slightly shorter 
head compared to the a19. 2) the flood beam is wider than the aleph19's.


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## vetkaw63 (Nov 3, 2006)

Hi would somebody do a cree mod on a flashlight like Q3, Dorcy 123, Dorcy 1AAA that we the poor masses own?
Thanks,
Mike


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## dabiscake (Nov 3, 2006)

Thanks for the info Kryosphinx, nice to know those IMS are not completely useless with these Crees... Also now, could you try with popular optics, like the Fraen low-profile, or maybe Eletrolumen's 30mm? Thanks.


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## Kryosphinx (Nov 3, 2006)

I don't have Elektrolumen's 30mm optic, but I do have a couple Fraen low-profiles. Unfortunately, it's impossible to get them to work with the XR-E's. You'd have to drill into the optic to get it into the sweet spot. Drilling into an optic = bad.

I wonder how the IMS17 does with the XR-Es. I figured the IMS20 was going to work if the McR-20 worked, but the IMS17 has a significantly smaller height/diameter ratio. I have one, but I don't want to possibly ruin it. It's my only one, and I need it.


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## flashlight (Nov 4, 2006)

dabiscake said:


> Thanks for the info Kryosphinx, nice to know those IMS are not completely useless with these Crees... Also now, could you try with popular optics, like the Fraen low-profile, or maybe Eletrolumen's 30mm? Thanks.



There's an optic made by Cree for the XR-E here.


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## Data (Nov 4, 2006)

I have one of the 8 degree Cree optics made for the XR-E in my SPY prototype. It works very nice.


Cheers
Dave


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## ArsMachina (Nov 4, 2006)

Hi Dave,

I am happily looking forward to a titanium SPY with an XR-E inside.
This will probably substitute my actual 005 as EDC for the next couple of years!

Jochen


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## kenster (Nov 5, 2006)

4 sevens, the A3 with a modified Mcr38 reflector for the Cree XR-E is one heck of a thrower. It out throws my Surefire KT-4 with an Arcmania WX0S Tower Module. Didn`t get to the 10,000 Lux mark Don mentioned he got with one. I`m reading over 8,000 now but I might try trimming a little more off the reflector. It may not be quite short enough yet. It is a Titanium light of course. Have you or any CPF folks you know of tried an Mcr27 Long reflector with the Cree XR-E? I`m thinking about trying one tonight but I hate to ruin a reflector if it is known not to work well with the Cree.

Thanks 
Ken


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## modamag (Nov 5, 2006)

Ken, the McR-27L works It's in the same family as a the McR-20 / 18 / 11.

If you really really REALLY want to pursue the all mighty 10K lux benchmark then get a Mag and pop an McR-45 (modded) in it with a XR-E P4 (Q3 when availalble).


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## cmacclel (Nov 5, 2006)

modamag said:


> Ken, the McR-27L works It's in the same family as a the McR-20 / 18 / 11.
> 
> If you really really REALLY want to pursue the all mighty 10K lux benchmark then get a Mag and pop an McR-45 (modded) in it with a XR-E P4 (Q3 when availalble).




Jonathan SHHHHH don't reveal my secret Pineapple body project!

Mac


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## Meduza (Nov 5, 2006)

dabiscake said:


> Thanks for the info Kryosphinx, nice to know those IMS are not completely useless with these Crees... Also now, could you try with popular optics, like the Fraen low-profile, or maybe Eletrolumen's 30mm? Thanks.



When i get mine XR-E's, i can try them with a EL 30mm optic.


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## matrixshaman (Nov 5, 2006)

Taking a close look at those two pictures it looks to me like the beam was more centered on the Lux meter on the left. The pic on the right looks a bit like the light was pointed a little lower - maybe off center of the meter detector? 


modamag said:


> * Note max lux measurement mode taken
> Camera Setting: Manual, F2.8, 1/500s, +0.0EV, ISO800, AE lock
> Left: McR-19, XR-E P2, GD @ 815mA -> 1750 [email protected]
> Right: Modded McR-20, XR-E P2, Flupic @ 845mA -> 1400 [email protected]
> ...


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## kenster (Nov 5, 2006)

modamag said:


> Ken, the McR-27L works It's in the same family as a the McR-20 / 18 / 11.
> 
> If you really really REALLY want to pursue the all mighty 10K lux benchmark then get a Mag and pop an McR-45 (modded) in it with a XR-E P4 (Q3 when availalble).


 
Modamag, just as I thought, you are right.




My light turned out great with the 27L and Cree combo! 6,800 Lux at 3 feet. Played with focusing the Mcr38 a little more and that light didn`t make it to 10K mark.



Made it over the 9K though.





Mcr-45?



Wish I had one to play with. Funny thing. My HD45 suddenly just popped itself apart






and the reflector is screaming "CREE ME!":huh:






My Mcr38 & 27L reflectors that went Cree. Both are happy in thier new homes.... Titanium, of course!


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## Kiessling (Nov 5, 2006)

Those are some gorgeous lights there !!!

A question: after shortening the reflectors for the Cree and screqing in a Cree Light Engine ... doesn't the LE sit deeper in the head and thus loosing contact to the lip of the battery tube?

bernie


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## TranquillityBase (Nov 5, 2006)

Why does your 27L bezel ring have so many lanyard holes? 

TB


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## jch79 (Nov 5, 2006)

Says the guy that makes the coolest bezel rings around.

You can't make comments like that unless you're selling yours!


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## kenster (Nov 5, 2006)

Kiessling said:


> Those are some gorgeous lights there !!!
> 
> A question: after shortening the reflectors for the Cree and screqing in a Cree Light Engine ... doesn't the LE sit deeper in the head and thus loosing contact to the lip of the battery tube?
> 
> bernie


 
Howdy Bernie!:wave: 

You know your Aleph lights alright. On the A3 light the TB made Ti bezel has pretty long threads and didn`t screw all the way down so I did a little grinding in the head with a Dremel at the steps where the reflector hits so the bezel would push the reflector as deep as possible and it now screws tight to the head. Now the battery tube just reaches the LE. The 27L light has an LE out of an A19 XR-E from the Shoppe. It is one piece and is not anodized so the ground is able to go from battery tube to head to LE by thread contact.


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## Kiessling (Nov 5, 2006)

Thanx !
But if I would have a classic Aleph3 modified for Cree ... I'd have the LE sit too deeply in the head, right?
bernie


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## kenster (Nov 5, 2006)

Since the reflector has to be shortened the LE would have to screw way up into the head for the emitter to focus in the reflector. You could use something to jump the ground from the battery tube to the LE. Since I have a lot of Aleph lights I will want to put Cree emitters in I`ve thought about putting an Aluminum or Copper piece in the Escrew under the Cree to raise it up so the LE wont have to screw so far up into the head but I haven`t got there yet.


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## TranquillityBase (Nov 5, 2006)

How about a LE spacer washer...

TB


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## TranquillityBase (Nov 5, 2006)

jch79 said:


> Says the guy that makes the coolest bezel rings around.
> 
> You can't make comments like that unless you're selling yours!


 I like the one with the holes...It's that ugly one on the A3 that I don't like

TB


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## McGizmo (Nov 5, 2006)

Hi guys,
I modded a HD45 with an XR-E today. Behind the 4 mm thick sapphire window, it still gets out 10,200 lux. I am anxious to see how spot and spill look later tonight when it gets dark and the company leaves.


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## kenster (Nov 6, 2006)

Don, very, VERY COOL HD45 you got there!



And with a five digit Lux reading.



My HD45 is apart for putting a Cree in it but I think I will wait for some better emitters than the ones I have. Aleph series is easier for me to experiment with the Cree XR-E & modifying reflectors and have it all end up fitting to actually be a working light. More adjustable with the screw in LE and bezel ring which means I can get away with a some of my boo boos in measurements and maybe even some of my well......... just plain brain dead goof ups.



At least I`m having fun with my goofin up!:thinking: ......Oooops! I mean goofin around!



TB, I know what you mean about that A3 bezel. It is the only Ti A3 bezel I could get so I had to settle. 


Hehe!


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## ICUDoc (Nov 6, 2006)

Hey TB

The Aleph light engines are just a little too deep (using unmodified reflectors) for the Balrog tube thtt someone sold me (I did not know that at the time!)
In order to get good tube-to-LE contact I soldered a piece of solid copper wire end-to-end around the LE. Now it sits snug and tight and gives ultrareliable contact.
A similar mod might be needed for the Cree mods?


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 6, 2006)

yeah the e-can's are plated brass, so you can solder to them. If you found a large enough copper washer you could solder that also to the end for a more clean look, but it wouldn't be as thick...

Good news on the IMS20mm being modded. I might try that and go with them for my quadmag... hmmm.


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## cmacclel (Nov 6, 2006)

McGizmo said:


> Hi guys,
> I modded a HD45 with an XR-E today. Behind the 4 mm thick sapphire window, it still gets out 10,200 lux. I am anxious to see how spot and spill look later tonight when it gets dark and the company leaves.




Don how much did you have to shave off the MCR45?? Can we get a chart going on what needs to be shaved off the MCR20,27,38,45 reflectors to be compatible with the new Cree's 

Thanks Mac


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## TranquillityBase (Nov 6, 2006)

A copper washer would be an easy and reliable option.

TB


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## dabiscake (Nov 6, 2006)

flashlight said:


> There's an optic made by Cree for the XR-E here.



Thanks for the link!


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## dabiscake (Nov 6, 2006)

Data said:


> I have one of the 8 degree Cree optics made for the XR-E in my SPY prototype. It works very nice.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Dave


Dave, where did you get these? Are they available from Cutter?

I also wonder how much different the beam is with this 8deg from the 4deg that DaveInItaly is having a group buy for? Anybody would know? Thanks for all the precious answers.


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## McGizmo (Nov 6, 2006)

Mac,
I removed about .060"-.070" from the rear of the reflector and allow it to seat in the head on a shoulder stop that was already there. There is a face in the head about .050" above the face the Luxeon sink bonds to. I opened the bore in the head to a diameter large enough to mount my MCPCB to this face and the Z axis alignment worked out pretty good. I had to add extra holes for the lead wires as well as a fastener hole. THe MCPCB is clamped to the head by two screws, on with head on MCPCB and other coming in from the back and threading into the MCPCB. It's doable to be sure but a fair amount of mod time involved!

For collimation and throw, the XR just like the Luxeons, need a relative long focal length but unlike the Luxeons, they also need the parabolic surface extended with more depth due to the narrower viewing angle.

Someone with the computer and graphics skills needs to take the Luxeon beam distribution graph and then add in that of the XR but the XR needs to be scaled in amplitude by a factor of say 1.8 to show its output _*relative*_ to that of the Luxeon. This will give a better picture of what to expect when using a Luxeon based reflector with the XR-E. Although the viewing angle of the XR-E is only 75 degrees to 50% of its relative output, the intensity at 50% of the XR-E is almost equal to the peak intensity of the Luxeon! As a result, it is not difficult for the XR-E to compete with the Luxeon on a lux basis even in a reflector that does not do a fantastic job of photon collimation on the XR-E's potential.


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## BackBlast (Nov 7, 2006)

Kryosphinx said:


> I noticed that optimal focus required the reflector to be positioned partway down the XR-E's reflector. If I were to mod another reflector, I would bore out the hole to fit the silver reflector, as opposed to sanding from the back. Since I took ~.05 off the back of the reflector, just plopping the XR-E through an unsanded reflector with a bored hole might just put the XR-E at optimal focus.



I did this with an IMS reflector for this project https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/140173 , it's a good place to start and a lot easier than sanding. I recommend this approach.


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## greenLED (Nov 7, 2006)

McGizmo said:


> Someone with the computer and graphics skills needs to take the Luxeon beam distribution graph and then add in that of the XR...


IIRC, Jarhead posted those a couple of days ago. Of course now I can't find the dang things.


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