# Who makes SureFire 123 batteries?



## mporter (Jan 4, 2004)

I have read posts on CPF that say that SureFire 123s are manufactured by Panasonic, Duracell, and Rayovac. Is it one of these or perhaps another manufacturer?

Or is it some kind of closely guarded SureFire secret and everyone is just guessing?


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## treek13 (Jan 4, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*mporter said:*
Or is it some kind of closely guarded SureFire secret and everyone is just guessing? 

[/ QUOTE ]
You've hit the nail on the head with this last option.
Surefire isn't saying who manufactures their batteries so we are left with theories/guesses.
Pat


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## dano (Jan 4, 2004)

Duracell does not OEM. Panasonic is (or was) manufactured by Sanyo. The SF cells are identical to Ray-o-Vacs in contruction, especially if you remove the labels.


--dan


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## paulr (Jan 4, 2004)

Chances are Surefire batteries come from various different manufacturers. Maybe they even put out for bids every time they want to order a new batch of a zillion or so batteries.


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## Size15's (Jan 5, 2004)

How many plants make the 123A battery in the USA?


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## thesurefire (Jan 5, 2004)

I'd say not many.


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## batterystation (Jan 5, 2004)

What is Duracell doing with red shrinkwrap? We have seen this. So have I seen a SF battery at Duracell?, NO. BUT I have seen the red wrap going in. Who else has a red battery? That is all I can say. No proof I guess.


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## mporter (Jan 5, 2004)

Here's a quote I found in a SureFire battery ad in the Guns & Ammo Combat Tactics magazine (the SureFire Presents edition):

"We tested all of the top brands and selected the one with the best performance in high-output flashlights, then we ordered millions and are passing the savings on to you."

Sounds like they chose a particular brand. It occurs to me it might be in best interest of the manufacturer to keep this deal secret. If SureFire's price of $1.25 is for the same battery that sells for lots more for in stores, it could hurt the manufacturer's retail sales.


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## Size15's (Jan 5, 2004)

The SF123A is different from other 123A batteries including the others made at the same plant.


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## McGizmo (Jan 5, 2004)

paulr,

My speculation is that your speculation is incorrect. I do understand from a "friend" that SF takes their batteries VERY seriously. I am led to understand that not all batteries are created equally nor are they comperable in terms of fail safes. I have been advised to consider purchasing domestic made batteries only as they comply with standards that may not be in place or addressed in off shore manufacture. I believe this becomes even more important when you start putting the cells in series and place them under heavy current demand.


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## Kiessling (Jan 5, 2004)

so ...

does "off shore" mean anything outside the US or just cheap far-east imports? I am specifically targeting the European battereis with this question.

could it be that this "fail-safe" mechanism might be responsible for some of the problems reported with SF 123s? could it be that these "problems" are in fact a protection of some sort kicking in for my good?

bernhard


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 5, 2004)

I've said this many times, I've tested this many more times and I'll stand by my findings. There is no other 123-cell on the market that outperforms the SureFire 123-cell. Everytime, without fail, against any other cell, the SF 123-cell produces a whiter beam, for a longer time, with longer total runtime/output.

Period.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 5, 2004)

Kevin, at batterystation.com says Duracell makes SF 123's. 

Bill


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## Floating Spots (Jan 5, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Size15s said:*
How many plants make the 123A battery in the USA? 

[/ QUOTE ]

From my pervious personal research, I only found two plants that manufacture lithium primary batteries* IN * the USA. Those two would be Duracell and Panasonic. They look a lot more like Panasonics than Duracells. 

However, this is completely my own conjecture based off personal research.


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## mporter (Jan 5, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Size15s said:*
The SF123A is different from other 123A batteries including the others made at the same plant. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know in what way they are different? For example, are they optimized in some way for higher-drain applications, like in an M6?


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## Size15's (Jan 5, 2004)

Yes, the SF123A are designed for high drain (high output) use. I find they produce whiter light for longer compared to any other brand I have compared them side-by-side with.

The safety features of an American made 123A such as the SF123A or DL123A are such that regardless of cost, I would be using the SF123A.

Al


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## Alan Hsu (Jan 5, 2004)

As far as imported 123s are concerned, I would say Sanyos are also good.


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## turbodog (Jan 5, 2004)

Whomever said duracell does not oem... I know sears diehard batteries used to be made by duracell. But this was many years ago.

I would say there is a very high chance surefire batteries are simply X brand batteries that are a premium run and/or held to better tolerances/etc.

If TIN has tested different brands multiple times and determined SF to be better, then I ask: do you expect SF batteries to be the sole 123 battery some mfg makes? I know they sell a lot, but the economies of scale suggest that they could not be $1.25 at such low volumes compared to typical 123 cells by XYZ mfg.

Remember, all we're talking here in terms of runtime is a few percent longer than X brand. That's well withing mfg tolerances in most circles.

This all points to SF being a good run of typical cells whether by chance or design.
Period.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## kakster (Jan 13, 2004)

Came across this while looking thru a UK dealer's site :
"...Now, one of Japan's leading battery manufacturers produces SureFire brand batteries for us by the millions, "


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## Alan Hsu (Jan 13, 2004)

Kakster,

That should be Sanyo, right?


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## kakster (Jan 13, 2004)

Well the only 2 manufacturers i know of are Sanyo or Panasonic. Find out which company has a plant in the US, and you have your answer (but only IF that blurb is accurate).
Id like to add that it doesnt really matter to me who makes the SF123's, they are the best brand i have tried and i'll continue to use them. They are also cheaper than the Duracells, which is all ive been able to find in the shops here.


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## zumlin (Jan 13, 2004)

That article can be found on surefire's website as well.

Surefire 123


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## Floating Spots (Jan 13, 2004)

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/about/index.html
I'll let the map speak for itself.

(Or Not...)
Look for the yellow square indicating a lithium plant in Japan and the USA.

And yes, I personally still believe it is Panasonic....


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## cue003 (Jan 14, 2004)

To order Surefire batteries, is Surefire (direct) the best choice for that or is there someplace else?

When you guys do these tests with the batteries, are you using Surefire lights or some other modded light with a higher current draw?

I will be more inclined to use "random" modded light with high current draw for my comparision instead of a Surefire light. Just my thought.

I am interested in finding cheap prices for Duracell but I cannot seem to find the price as low as the SF123A. any ideas?


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## AlecGold (Jan 22, 2004)

I normaly use GP batteries and I can tell you they suck. Yellowish light, bad performance, not very long lasting. Only reason I bought them was the price difference: I can buy the GP for 4,50 Euro and any other brand from 8E up to 14 E! And at nearly half the price they perform aobut 60-65% of a Duracel. 
Since I have been able to buy SureFires for prices as low as 2.5E It has never been anything else but SF's. 
I cant tell or they are better then Duracel or panasonics, but at this price? they cant fail!


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## Greta (Jan 23, 2004)

As always, the old cliche of "You get what you pay for" definately applies here. What cost your safety?


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## GJW (Jan 23, 2004)

Before SureFire starting offering the SF123A all of the SureFires that I'd ever bought shipped with Duracells inside.


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## Ray_of_Light (Jan 23, 2004)

A suggestion. Try to compare the "smell" of SF123 and DL123 after being used in the flashlight, and the flashlight being stored, afterward, in a carton box. 

Repeat the comparative "smell" test between SF123s against any other 123 brand, Panasonic and Sanyo included.

This may help in making a good guess on the real SF123 manufacture...

Anthony


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## batterystation (Jan 23, 2004)

Same electrolyte. Smell won't do it. Again I ask what would Duracell be doing with red shrinkwrap? I should not even post here.


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## MDM (Jan 27, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*dano said:*
Duracell does not OEM. Panasonic is (or was) manufactured by Sanyo. The SF cells are identical to Ray-o-Vacs in contruction, especially if you remove the labels.


--dan 

[/ QUOTE ]

Duracell makes Costco's Kirkland brand of AA's...


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## ufokillerz (Jan 27, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*MDM said:*

Duracell makes Costco's Kirkland brand of AA's... 

[/ QUOTE ]

are you sure? lol and they put their brand right next to duracell at my local costco


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## Harrkev (Jan 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*batterystation said:*
Again I ask what would Duracell be doing with red shrinkwrap?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a box of SF 123s at home right now. I also threw in a couple of Duracell 123s that I had lying around in the box. I noticed that they are quite different! One type had two vent holes in the nipple, and the other had three (I forget which is which). So they do not even look the same...


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## kongfuchicken (Jan 28, 2004)

I confirm that SFs have two holes while duracells have three...


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## kakster (Jan 28, 2004)

Incans run with SF brand are noticabley whiter than with duracell. Runtime is neck and neck though.


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## [email protected] (Jan 29, 2004)

PANASONIC is the manufacturer.

How do I know?: County Comm was selling CR123 batteries for .75 each until we sold out. Don't you think we had to shop very carefully to be able to sell them for that price and make money? A follow-up question would be: "who makes Streamlight Batteries?” Clue: The same people that make batteries for Streamlight make them for Sure Fire. 
How much extra does it cost to make private label a battery? When I was researching this a year ago my cost to private label a battery was 8 tenths of a penny per cell in the quantities we were working with.


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## Kiu (Jan 29, 2004)

After i readings all these :
surefire 

rayovac 

panasonic 

sanyo 


The questions has came down.
panasonic? not sanyo??
I will believe SF 123 isn't made by rayovac or duracell. 
As they are not the japanese companpy that SF are talking about.


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## Klaus (Jan 29, 2004)

CC saying so, SF is saying Japanese company and US Lithium factory too - so it pretty surely must be Panasonic then.

Klaus


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## kakster (Jan 29, 2004)

Strange. The Panasonics available here in the UK really suck. Perhaps ours come from a different factory?


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## JohnK (Jan 29, 2004)

Thank you Frank at Countrycom.

Every one here seems to be frightened to "insult" Surefire by placing credit/blame on ANYONE else making the damn things except some sort of a higher "power", or supreme being.

I get a bit bored by Surefire worship.............

This is for SURE. Every light company is here to: MAKE A PROFIT. 

I do NOT believe Surefire/BMW/Mercedes, or any other company exists to further human development, other than to increase profit margins. If some of them appeal to our desire to put the companies motives on a high pedestal, so much the better for the company, for all of us to believe it. 

You may go down that road as far as it pleases you. It's a free country (more or less).


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## Flashlightboy (Jan 30, 2004)

This has got to be one of the dumbest, why-can't-it-die, theads that I've seen in the past 3 years. 

Other than wasting many ones and zeros, what is the point of all this? No really, what's the point?

Either you like SF and buy their stuff or you don't. You like Ray O Vac - you buy their stuff and so it goes with every other battery manufacturer out there.

I'm just tired of seeing this dead subject come up whenever I look at the Latest Threads. 

And what if it is Panasonic or Duracell or someone else. Is anyone going to rewrite their will or stop eating fatty foods? You gonna start attending church regularly once you find out? Let it go... 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif


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## paulr (Jan 30, 2004)

The subject keeps reviving because people logically want to know if they can get the same performance by buying some other brand of cell, either less expensively or more conveniently (i.e. at the local Wal-Merde instead of through the mail).


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## Flashlightboy (Jan 30, 2004)

SF or possibly the new Strategos batteries are costing a few pennies over a dollar. Cheaper batteries are giving decent but not similar performance. Everything else is more expensive.

So can I buy a SF battery with SF performance at SF prices at Wal-Mart? Nope. Fact is that no sells SF batteries cheaper than SF. Can I buy a 123 battery with near SF performance at SF prices at Wal-Mart? Can't do that either.

Cheaper 123 batteries can be found but I don't recall them having the same performance characteristics but all of this is old news and I bet that frequent use of the Search feature would answer these questions.


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## paulr (Jan 30, 2004)

If you want two SF batteries from SF, you have to buy a box of 12 for $15.00 and pay another $7.00 shipping minimum, costing you $22.00 and leaving you with ten batteries you didn't want, a heck of a lot more if you need overnight shipping. If you can get your two batteries for $7.99 at Wal-Mart with no waiting, that can be a better deal in many circumstances.


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## ufokillerz (Jan 30, 2004)

fre shipping on $100+ orders from SF


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## kakster (Jan 30, 2004)

You can never have too many CR123s....


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## Akkuhalle (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: Who makes SureFire 123 batteries? *DELETED**

Post deleted by [email protected]


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## kitelights (Jan 30, 2004)

I've followed the thread simply for the "mystery" surrounding the SF 123 origin. There have been 4 strong suggestions as to their source (not just here, but other threads, too), two of whom I consider very credible because I know them. But, I still can't say with certainty that I know and I'd just like to satisfy my curiosity.

I've seen far more frivolous and annoying "just won't die" threads than this one.


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## paulr (Jan 30, 2004)

The most convincing analysis I've seen so far was some on some other thread where someone compared an SF cell to a Ray-o-vac cell and found they looked the same. However, I'm confident that there's no single permanent answer to this question. Don's probably right that SF doesn't just buy whatever random 123's are available from the lowest bidder, but one of the main points of private labelling is you can change suppliers whenever you want without getting your customers upset that you switched from Duracell to Energizer or whatever. 

With its own label, SF can always keep looking for cells that meet its requirements or for manufacturers willing to custom-make cells to SF specifications. Since SF used to ship flashlights with Duracell branded 123's and they appear to be using some other manufacturer's cells now, something like that has already happened. Presumably it can and will happen again if SF finds a better cell or a better deal somewhere.


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## paulr (Jan 30, 2004)

Akkuhalle, thanks, that's pretty interesting, someone really is selling CR123-sized 3.6 volt li ion cells. They will probably burn out the lamp in some Surefires if you use them like 123's! In particular the incandescents and the L4. But the L4 would probably work well on just one of those 3.6 volt cells.

Are you the seller? I sent an ebay message to the seller asking if they can ship to the USA, but if you can sell direct on CPF, that's even better.


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## gwbaltzell (Jan 30, 2004)

What I find most amusing about this thread is how many of you believe Energizer makes lithium cells. I have a 123 in front of me that says "Made in Japan", "Sold by: Energizer". Note it does not say Manufactured by.


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## kitelights (Jan 31, 2004)

I don't have an Energizer CR123 to look at, but I just looked at an Energizer e2 Photo Lithium AA / L91 that definately says made in U.S.A.


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## raggie33 (Jan 31, 2004)

my energizer 123 says made in usa


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## Floating Spots (Jan 31, 2004)

Mine says "Made U.S.A. for: Engergizer Holdings, Inc. ..."
Notice it doesn't say made by Energizer in the U.S.A.
Just a tidbit of info....


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## MDM (Feb 1, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*ufokillerz said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*MDM said:*

Duracell makes Costco's Kirkland brand of AA's... 

[/ QUOTE ]

are you sure? lol and they put their brand right next to duracell at my local costco 

[/ QUOTE ]

This is according to the leading consumer products magazine.


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## Delta_FHInX (Feb 4, 2004)

Hi, I just noticed that surefire is gonna shut down Bulldog Enterprices. I suspect something is going on inside the executive offices. Anyways, about this thread...

It seems that Surefire are made in Japan according to Surefire . Also Meridian Tactical is a known dealer of Surefire products. In their battery section, http://store.yahoo.com/meridiantactical/pan3vollitba.html it clearly says Panasonic Battery. Its a known fact that Panasonic is in Japan. Thanks for reading and anyone who disagrees may challenge my prediction.


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## Size15's (Feb 4, 2004)

No, the SF123A is made in the USA by a leading Japanese battery manufacturer [that has a factory in the USA].

And the other link is for Meridian Tactical and not SureFire. It's Meridian Tactical's words not SureFires.

What I don't understand is why does it matter who makes the SF123A for SureFire? The SF123A is made to SureFire's own design specification.

Al


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## Phaserburn (Feb 4, 2004)

That's an interesting turn of phrase, Al. Is Surefire's design specification any different from "standard" 123 cells? I know the marketing portion: designed to produce best light, long lasting, etc. But what if anything makes their specs different? Do you know? Just curious. It doesn't matter to me who makes it. I'd rather know if there is really something different or superior in the specs for it that would make it a better power source for CPF'ers.


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## Size15's (Feb 4, 2004)

I do not understand how batteries work in the detail required to understand how the differences make the SF123A the best battery. I am not an expert in battery technology unlike the man at SureFire who designed their SF123A who is perhaps the World's foremost 123A expert.

I do know that the research SureFire performs on batteries gives them the best understanding of how 123A batteries work in their products and therefore the ability to specify the characteristics of SF123A.

I have talked to the SureFire's battery expert and seen the masses of research data. I've also seen how he performs the light output tests. The level of detail and the understand required goes way over my head.

On the practical side, I have proven to myself in side-by-side runtime tests with a variety of SureFires that the SF123A does produce brighter light for longer.

From a purely selfish aspect, the low cost of SF123As is such that I have no need to consider the next best performing 123A (the DL123A Ultra M3).
I will not risk my safety for the sake of a few pence per 123A by buying cheap brands even if the performance was similar or similar enough.

The SF123A is for me the best value 123A based on performance, safety and price.

I use a lot of SF123As in models such as the M6 and most of the non-regulated models I use have the High Output Lamps in them. I buy SF123As in bulk from the USA and have to factor in charges and shipping.

I would like to say this though.
If you believe you are getting better value from a different brand, that's fine by me.

Al


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## GJW (Feb 4, 2004)

Slightly off-topic but my local Fry's Electronics is now carrying the SF123A 2-packs (interesting because they do not carry other SureFire products).
Buying in bulk is definitely the way to go but for someone just needing a few they now had a new source.


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## Delta_FHInX (Feb 4, 2004)

My mistake. It was accoring to Meridian Tactical that Panasoic make Surefire batteries. I hope that these batteries stay at low prices, but if they get rid of dealers, they may be hard to find.


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## ksbman (Feb 4, 2004)

Apparently nobody. I've had some backordered for three weeks now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## batterystation (Feb 4, 2004)

I don't have any backorders on CR123s. I will send you some. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## ksbman (Feb 4, 2004)

As blasphemous as this may sound, I'm still on my original box of twelve 123's that I bought several months ago.

Mainly, flashlights to me are tools that I use at work. When I need a light at home I usually reach for the Super LGI. 

My 123 lights are an LSHF-P (EDC on my lunch box), Firefly (EDC in my coat pocket), X5T-HA (EDnotC on my kitchen counter by the phone), and McLux (Work of art, thing of beauty, displayed on shelf), all of which are still on their original battery(s).

The Surefire 123's that are back ordered are for someone else.

Not having any high drain lights, if I went through 123's quicker than I do I would definitely buy 123's from you, Kevin.


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## thospress (Jan 15, 2013)

I wouldn't be surprised if Surefire uses different manufacturing sources. Interestingly, the Surefire batteries which I bought from Surefire during their Christmas special have different packaging and appearance (black rings at collar and tail with plus and minus signs indicated, etc).


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## Kestrel (Jan 15, 2013)

We have much more up-to-date threads discussing SureFire CR123's; this thread has been inactive for nearly nine years now and some of the information here is outdated. Please feel free to use a more recent discussion thread for these cells.
Thanks,


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