# Zebralight bike set up



## Mr Floppy (Jun 19, 2012)

I'm looking at having a Zebralight set up for my bike. This will comprise of 2 front lights and 1 rear. 

The lights of choice are the H51w but I'm not sure as to what to do about the rear. H51r Frosted or not frosted for the rear? Should I just get the unfrosted and use a bit of frosted tape or something if I need to? Other than bike use, I don't really have any other use for a red light. Previous set up has been a Fenix MC10 on the rear with a red filter. 

My trip isn't fast and is around 30 minutes but will a single H51w be enough? I've previously used a single Fenix L2D Q5 and that was ok.

Also, are the red and regular headbands the same?


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## eh4 (Jun 20, 2012)

Personally I'd go with a regular old red flasher for the back and save the bucks for the ZL lights in the front.
The red in the back (to be seen) doesn't need to be nearly as nice and bright as the lights in the front (to see)... That way you could get any ZL you wanted for each handle bar.
ZL are fantastic lights but your regular old red safety light will be visible from more angles than any ZL.


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## Phireglass (Jun 20, 2012)

I just copped a magicshine MJ-818 and man its that thing BRIGHT, for a tail light i dont think you could go wrong with one of these, oh and the battery lasts forever


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 20, 2012)

eh4 said:


> ZL are fantastic lights but your regular old red safety light will be visible from more angles than any ZL.



I was wondering about that but it's more to do with lighting up the road behind me or like someone else in this forum has done, lit up their backside. I did think about 2 reds just for visibility. 



Phireglass said:


> that thing BRIGHT, for a tail light i dont think you could go wrong with one of these



I do have a magicshine with the rear light but that's used for longer commutes and greater speeds.


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## reppans (Jun 20, 2012)

What lumen level did you find acceptable with your previous Fenix? I ask because 1xAA is not a whole lot of juice for a 30 min ride if you need maximum.

Also I'd strongly advise using red in the back. I think numb drivers subconsciously steer to the right of white lights thinking its oncoming traffic.

Lastly have you considered 1 H600 instead of 2 H51s?


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## reppans (Jun 20, 2012)

dupe.


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 21, 2012)

reppans said:


> What lumen level did you find acceptable with your previous Fenix? I ask because 1xAA is not a whole lot of juice for a 30 min ride if you need maximum.



The Q5 at the time was around 180 Lumens. That was at a time before ANSI ratings. 50 minutes for the ZL should get home no worries.



reppans said:


> Also I'd strongly advise using red in the back. I think numb drivers subconsciously steer to the right of white lights thinking its oncoming traffic.


Yes that was always the plan. It's also the law here too. 



reppans said:


> Lastly have you considered 1 H600 instead of 2 H51s?



Yes but it was more to do with the spread of light, preference for AA's etc. The L2D has quite a large hot spot and it has worked well. If the zebralight is as large or larger, then that would be great. I'm thinking that a 1 metre hotspot at 6 metres is larger than the L2D but it might be a bit diffuse. 

I'm also thinking that the 9 degree red is not enough to light up the sides so the flood version might be the go.


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## bbb74 (Jun 21, 2012)

If its for nighttime use, get the h51Fr. It might still be too bright though unless you diffuse it even some more. You don't want to make people behind you even angrier than they might already be 

If you are going to stick with sc51's for the front, I wouldn't get the sc51w's. Not as bright, and the cold light helps you to stand out and be seen better against other lights/traffic vs the neutrals.


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 22, 2012)

bbb74 said:


> It might still be too bright though unless you diffuse it even some more. You don't want to make people behind you even angrier than they might already be



I don't mind it being bright at the back. When I'm driving and I have a bike in front of me, I would rather that than a bright white light in my rear vision mirror. Plus I'd rather other riders would have a solid red light rather flashing. Mind you, I don't ride with traffic that much, not a lot of straight roads and lots of turns and hills. 



bbb74 said:


> If you are going to stick with sc51's for the front, I wouldn't get the sc51w's. Not as bright, and the cold light helps you to stand out and be seen better against other lights/traffic vs the neutrals.



That is a good point. I was thinking that the neutrals would help a little with pot holes and the like. The L2D can wash the shadows a bit so you can hit obstacles at the last moment. It doesn't have the short distance spill that I think could be helpful. Could be good to combine the H502w and H51w together, with the H502 directed towards the front wheel.


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## finn (Jun 23, 2012)

That's really the opposite of what is desirable. It doesn't take many lumens before the driver averts his eyes, or worse, looks away and veers towards you with mothlike instinct. Also, a solid light is not nearly as noticeable as a blinking light. On a bike, the sweet spot is to be dim enough for drivers to keep their eyes on you as they pass, yet annoying enough that you're impossible to miss. Dinottes are shunned by most bikers for being dangerously bright in this way when used at night. It could probably be used safely with a secondary diffuser like bbb74 suggests.



Mr Floppy said:


> I don't mind it being bright at the back. When I'm driving and I have a bike in front of me, I would rather that than a bright white light in my rear vision mirror. Plus I'd rather other riders would have a solid red light rather flashing. Mind you, I don't ride with traffic that much, not a lot of straight roads and lots of turns and hills.


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## srfreddy (Jun 23, 2012)

"mothlike instinct"? I hardly think that a driver will instinctually drive towards any red lights on the road, or else the accident rates might be a tiny bit higher than they are.


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## bbb74 (Jun 24, 2012)

Lets just say I tried a H51r out one night, without diffusing it, and before testing it out on myself, and I had more drivers doing more stupid/aggressive overtakes than I've ever had in a single trip. When I got home I tried it out on myself and realised why... While nothing excuses risking my life, I can understand their reaction. It would need a *lot* of diffusion to be "safe".


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## Mr Floppy (Jun 25, 2012)

srfreddy said:


> "mothlike instinct"? I hardly think that a driver will instinctually drive towards any red lights on the road, or else the accident rates might be a tiny bit higher than they are.



That explains why my car gets rammed every time I brake my car!

Ok, looks like I'll go for the H51Fr then. I have to say, even when I used the tail light from the magicshine, I never really experienced any different behavior from drivers when compared to the cateye. What is noticeable is that drivers don't like the dual magicshine white light heading towards them. 

H51w and H51Fr on my compact fold up bike


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## lampeDépêche (Jun 25, 2012)

I think there is a big difference between what is appropriate and effective for day-time usage and for night-time usage.

During the day, esp. on sunny days, I don't think you can get too much light on a bike. My experience has been that a couple of bright red lights on the rear--and I have both the H51r and a Quark RBG--give cars plenty of warning, and cause them to give me a wide berth.

My wife also had this experience--she is very timid about traffic, but after I put a Portland Designs "Danger Zone" blinky on her rear rack (it has 2 1/2 watt red leds, I don't know their lumen rating), she said that she could not believe how much more room the cars gave her, and how much more comfortable she felt.

Night-time, it's a different game. You can definitely put out too much light. And I think pretty much all strobes are bad news, except maybe a very gentle flicker somewhere in addition to some solid lights. But with the H51r, you can turn it down!! Choose an output level for night that is dimmer than for day. It's courteous, and it's probably safer, too.

It probably also makes a difference whether you are biking in an urban or rural environment. One of the things I need to think about are cars coming up behind me on a country road doing 100km/h. If I can get them to see me 500 meters back, then that's really valuable. That's part of why I like to run with the H51r on full strobe, without any diffusion, during the day time. It lets them become aware of me that much further back.


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## DIΩDΣ (Jun 27, 2012)

I went with the PDW Danger Zone myself. I dont bike much alot at night though, but I have used it alot while jogging at night, it clips onto the back of my zebralight headband - H51w out front and the Danger Zone covering the rear. Only thing I have found is the PDW DZ has a very narrow viewing angle. Not very good for anything that isnt directly back from you. And in the case of me using it on a headband jogging, I have to line it up in the mirror when I put it on and not mess with the headband during the run. and remember to look a certain way when I hear a car comming so I know its shining strait back. Thinking an H51fr might have wider angle, but a lot more expensive and not as catchy of a strobe.



Mr Floppy said:


> That explains why my car gets rammed every time I brake my car!
> 
> Ok, looks like I'll go for the H51Fr then. I have to say, even when I used the tail light from the magicshine, I never really experienced any different behavior from drivers when compared to the cateye. What is noticeable is that drivers don't like the dual magicshine white light heading towards them.
> 
> H51w and H51Fr on my compact fold up bike



I think its more to do with drunks... they tend to go towards the things they are trying to avoid. Especially mezmorizing strobes. Watch those 'most shocking police videos' or whatever they are called and in almost every case of a vehicle veering off the road into a police car that has someone else pulled over the guy is intoxicated.


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## bbb74 (Jun 27, 2012)

DIΩDΣ;3973657 said:


> Thinking an H51fr might have wider angle, but a lot more expensive and not as catchy of a strobe.



You know there is a 4 hertz strobe mode on the h51's right? Just checking.


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## curry__muncha (Jun 27, 2012)

Would anybody be able to get a side beam shot of the H51Fr for me?


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## Bolster (Jun 27, 2012)

DIΩDΣ;3973657 said:


> I think its more to do with drunks... they tend to go towards the things they are trying to avoid.



That's known as "Ironic Process of Control." Happens to me when I'm riding my mtn bike. Run straight into the rock I'm trying to avoid. Without the help of alcohol, even.


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## DIΩDΣ (Jul 7, 2012)

bbb74 said:


> You know there is a 4 hertz strobe mode on the h51's right? Just checking.



Yeah, which isnt very catchy. The PDW Danger Zone has a very random slow-quick alternating between two led strobe. I think the ZL steady strobe would suffice however.

LOL @ Bolster. Sounds about like the time I accidentally fell a ways down a ravine just stopping my bike and getting off it.


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## tobrien (Jul 14, 2012)

get the H51r or H31r. if you decide you want a frosted lens, there are quite a few guys selling diffuser film in the Marketplace so you can add that on yourself and remove it easily (and place the disc of film in the battery tube) when you don't need it 

that's what i plan on doing


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## grego15 (Jul 14, 2012)

Hey Mr Floppy, I think you should further consider the H600. Saw it mentioned once. It is a VERY floody light that puts out light very evenly. It is capable of up to 750 lumens, but also as low as 1 lumen. 

Also noteworthy is the high capacity rechargeable battery. You prefer AA's but if you can avoid throwing away batteries after every bike ride, why wouldn't you? You should be able to get 3-4 30minute bike rides(@ 270 lumens) from one charged 18650. Much more convenient than popping in AA's all the time and cheaper. And better for the environment.

Please see this video for an in depth review and a comprehensive look at the light/beam in action at various distances. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0OQEkn8GxQ youtube has many other videos too. Good luck!


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## Mr Floppy (Jul 15, 2012)

grego15 said:


> You prefer AA's but if you can avoid throwing away batteries after every bike ride, why wouldn't you?



Nah, Eneloops are cheap and I throw out dozens at a time ...


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## TweakMDS (Jul 31, 2012)

I was just thinking of a similar setup and decided to be economical about it.

From a flashaholic point of view, I want both the H51w and the H502d. I don't ride my bike daily and have narrowly avoided multiple 40-euro fines for forgetting or misplacing my crappy LED lights in the past... 
Since I started EDC-ing, it becomes realistic to combine the pleasant with the legal obligation to have proper bicycle lights.

Considering the two lights I have in mind, I think the h502d would be best suited as a tail light and the h51w as a headlight. Both are easily EDC-able whenever I'm out by bike somewhere.

In the Netherlands, legal restrictions are as follows:
- head light has to be white or yellow
- tail light has to be red
- both none-blinding 
- no blinking/strobe/flickering
There's an additional rule about "approved" tail lights, but it doesn't appear to be anything substantial, so I opt to disregard any potential issues with that.

*Tail light concepts (very vague so far):*
Since the bikelight setup is only a secondary use of the ZL's I want, I don't want to get a dedicated red led-light, so I need some sort of red filter for the H502d, possibly something that also diffuses the light. Since I only intend to use it on low, I'll probably whip up some DiY tupperware-ish hack that I can permanently leave on my bike.

As for mounting: I'm currently considering either clipping the light directly to my bike, or permanently mounting a headlamp holder to my saddlebar. Should be fine eitherway, no showstoppers there.

*Headlight:*
A headlight is far simpler, I just need to mount it on the handlebars and angle it down to avoid blinding on higher modes. Running it on low is probably enough for visibility and meeting the legal requirements. If I find myself in poorly lit areas, I can always crank it up to high. I'm still leaving the option open to also mount different lights like my eagletac D25A on the front though. Not 100% clear, but tie-rips are probably going to be used.

The only issue I have so far is the ideal way to make a red filter / diffuser. I'm thinking of finding a red bottlecap (coca cola?) and just mounting that on the light with a rubber band so I can easily remove and attach it. Maybe a coke bottle cap eats too much light though, so might have to sand it down or use something else.
Any more durable or efficient solutions are very welcome


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## Mr Floppy (Jul 31, 2012)

TweakMDS said:


> In the Netherlands, legal restrictions are as follows:
> - head light has to be white or yellow
> - tail light has to be red
> - both none-blinding
> - no blinking/strobe/flickering



Damn you Dutch are sensible. It varies from state to state here but basically your lights have to be visible at 200 metres either solid or blinking. Blinking lights are the most annoying to some drivers I find. It isn't policed well however (even some of the police don't know the regulations). Some people have lights you can barely see at 50 metres. 



TweakMDS said:


> The only issue I have so far is the ideal way to make a red filter / diffuser. I'm thinking of finding a red bottlecap (coca cola?) and just mounting that on the light with a rubber band so I can easily remove and attach it. Maybe a coke bottle cap eats too much light though, so might have to sand it down or use something else.
> Any more durable or efficient solutions are very welcome



Get a TwoFish Lock block or Bike block. Very easy to mount. I have a Fenix MC10. It has a flip down filter but unfortunately it is just plain transparent. It would have been great if Fenix made a red version but they didnt but I did have a red filter for a Fenix L2D. I popped the red filter out and glued it to the flip down filter.


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## eh4 (Jul 31, 2012)

Biased by what I've tried, but for me a relatively mild 1/2watt blinking red led has worked well. I actually rode plenty without any lights when I was growing up, I also got on the sidewalk at night before any car overtook me to make sure I didn't get smashed. Big difference with red flasher on rear.

When driving a car I see dimmer red flashers Just Fine, and give them a wide berth without being distracted. 
Some of the brighter ones have.seemed like distracting overkill from my perspective as a driver. 
Bright white light in front sounds like a great idea, front white Flasher is however a foolish requirement imo.


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## TweakMDS (Aug 1, 2012)

Mr Floppy said:


> Damn you Dutch are sensible. It varies from state to state here but basically your lights have to be visible at 200 metres either solid or blinking. Blinking lights are the most annoying to some drivers I find. It isn't policed well however (even some of the police don't know the regulations). Some people have lights you can barely see at 50 metres.



Hehe, well I just looked up some numbers: we own 1.1 bikes per person here, with 84% of the population owning at least one... the average dutch person rides 900 kilometers a year, so there have to be some standards with those numbers. Visibility is less of an issue because there are bicycle lanes or even separate bicycle roads literally everywhere.

The Lockblock seems like a great option. I'll see if I can find something similar in local shops and otherwise ebay them.



eh4 said:


> Bright white light in front sounds like a great idea, front white Flasher is however a foolish requirement imo.



Agreed. A headlamp in front works well without blinking. Also: the requirement is NONE-blinking. Having blinking lights on your bike is a 40 euro fine here, so I agree that it makes sense not to do that


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## rambo180 (Aug 1, 2012)

Mr Floppy said:


> I was wondering about that but it's more to do with lighting up the road behind me or like someone else in this forum has done, lit up their backside. I did think about 2 reds just for visibility.
> 
> 
> 
> I do have a magicshine with the rear light but that's used for longer commutes and greater speeds.



why does one want to light up the road behind themselves. i ride at night, don't get it. cheers


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## TweakMDS (Aug 1, 2012)

The main reason I can think off is better visibility from the side, as well as providing other traffic with a quick estimate of your speed and direction. If you'd have a regular flashlight with a red filter, or even something with a diffuser on the back of your bike, a car coming from the side, or diagonally from behind can barely see you, especially in the rain.

Imo, this is better addressed by using copious reflectors, both the white paint kind and the amber/red inversed pyramid kind. Those things reflect a car's own headlights extremely well from just about any angle and provide much more visibility than a tail light ever will.


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## rambo180 (Aug 1, 2012)

TweakMDS said:


> The main reason I can think off is better visibility from the side, as well as providing other traffic with a quick estimate of your speed and direction. If you'd have a regular flashlight with a red filter, or even something with a diffuser on the back of your bike, a car coming from the side, or diagonally from behind can barely see you, especially in the rain.
> 
> Imo, this is better addressed by using copious reflectors, both the white paint kind and the amber/red inversed pyramid kind. Those things reflect a car's own headlights extremely well from just about any angle and provide much more visibility than a tail light ever will.



Reflectors are a great addition to lights. Lots of bike back lights are rounded, cateye make some great 180 degree ones to enable vision from cars perpendicular to a bike.

Its still quite hard to tell how fast a flashing light is going though, lighting up the road would be much better, but many many more lumens and battery power required to make enough light for a car to see and make speed judgement.


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## Mr Floppy (Aug 13, 2012)

Just got a new HL51w and went for ride last night. It is about as bright as my L2D Q5 and has a slightly bigger hotspot. As for the warmer tint, well it's hard to describe but things looked less grey. The asphalt didn't have that haze about it. Warm is good.


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