# My First XM-L Mag Mod



## kkara4 (May 24, 2011)

Well after all the inspiration I have got from reading this forum, I thought the time is right for me to attempt my first mod! 

That and the fact that uni semester is almost finished and only one more piece of assessment to go! :rock:

I thought this would be a great place to post my build log, so I'll start first by listing the parts, and my reasoning for choices:

LED: Cree XM-L U2 flux bin, 1B tint bin on a 14mm MPCB
Host: Maglite Incan 5D
Batteries: 5 x lighthound 26650's
Driver: TaskLED H6Flex
Heatsink: Initially H22A, subsequently a custom Aluminium one
Reflector: Trying to get a rebel deep reflector, have ordered various so unsure yet!
Lens: Stock Maglite, later possibly DX 50mm Aspheric

So, my reasoning for choices:

LED: All inspiration came from technjunkie's thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...te-LED-XM-L-mod-gt-regulated-5A-super-thrower
--> i was tossing up between SST-50 and the XM-L, the XM-L is MUCH cheaper to get to Australia!
---> preliminary testing I have done means I will be running at 5A (on high mode)

Host and batteries: I want maximum battery life, pure and simple. H6Flex has max voltage of 21V, hence 5 Li-ions is perfect. The 5D is also nice and chunky, excellent for  :devil:

Driver: I wanted various brightness levels and flexibility. H6Flex provides all the bells and whistles and can provide up to 6.6A! Also has low battery warnings and things, which I may incorporate later.

Heatsink: I want to be able to run at 5A for the life of the batteries, hence I will eventually make my own heatsink which will fill every possible cubic millimetre. Preliminary testing gets the heatsink up to a very toasty 82 degrees (this was using an old northbridge heatsink, with NO airflow whatsoever, and temperature measured with an LM35DT digital thermometer IC.

Reflector and Lens: I want MAXIMUM THROW!!! Will be experimenting as parts arrive.

Well thats it for now, I have actually started my modding, so will bust out the camera later and upload my first pictures!!!


----------



## kkara4 (May 25, 2011)

Alright here we go with the pics!
First, a shot of the mag stripped down. Didn't strip the switch completely for the photo, will do that later. The PVC pipe is my battery sleeve. I put the metal ruler there for a sense of scale! I got really excited and cut the bulb post off the switch before I took the photo! As you can see I got a bit  with the packaging...







This next picture is a closer look at the battery sleeve. A 34mm OD piece of PVC and 5 sheets of scrap A4 paper rolled inside :thumbsup:. The aluminium tape you can see in the previous picture is to make the fit in the body juuuuust right 






Since 5 x 26650s stacked up end up sticking out of the body about 5mm, the stock tail spring was never going to work...first step was to grind out the inside of the cap which i had a great deal of trouble doing, as you can see. In any case I only needed one bare patch! Later Ill neaten it up....:naughty:






More photos coming later today!


----------



## kkara4 (May 25, 2011)

Alright time for more pictures! So here is my tail spring solution...ripped the spring off a single D cell battery holder (cheap nasty one you can buy from any electronics store), and had an almost perfectly sized steel flat washer. Soldered the spring to the washer, then used desoldering braid to make it a press fit into the tail cap. Also used it to bypass spring resistance. 

Resistance is futile 






Now in my second post and first picture i posted (overview of the maglite stripped down), you can see that there is no longer a small spring which makes contact with the + of the D cells on the switch body. It is now a small springy metal strip. No matter. Stripped that guy out, stole a spring from an old el-cheapo AA battery holder, resistance modded it with desolder braid, and soldered a nice length of 18AWG wire from an old dead computer PSU. Have teflon wire on the way, but that will be for the high temp areas. Can always change to teflon later! 






Here you can see how it sits in the switch body...screw it in a bit like a screw and it sits in there nice and solid






Bit of a closer view on the modded switch body...got a bit aggressive with the file as well :naughty:






This is the tailcap with the spring installed...now you can see why the braid comes up the sides, so it makes good contact with the bare aluminium!






As you can see i accidentally broke the ground connection strap, but it just so happens that it broke in the ideal place for what I'll be doing! :thumbsup:






And finally for now...a little picture of what i used to remove the switch from the body in the first place...as you may know, mag have changed to a T8 torx grub screw (dont have pic atm)...turns out a 2mm hex wrench with the balled end that you can see in the photo is just perfect for getting it out. I messed around for a few hours trying to grind down an old 2mm hex wrench to a flat blade screwdriver, and thought what the hell and tried this guy. In the words of borat: " great success!":thumbsup:






More pics as i get more work done on it! EDIT: Here are some more!

OK so some more parts arrived, my AL block for my heatsink, my aspheric lens, thermal transfer tape and 20AWG teflon wire!

So here is the switch all finished. I didn't bother taking pics of the innards, i actually didnt bother modding the switch for momentary...by pressing the switch only a certain amount you get contact but it doesnt latch, so i will exploit this property with some washers in the future. As you can see drilled 4 holes (only ended up using two, but meh).






I then put the switch together after some :hairpull:. It was rather difficult with all the extra wires! Alas, I put it in the tube before i took a photo of it, so sorry about that! Didnt want to take it out again! I then hooked the wires up to the driver, which was mounted on an old southbridge sink with the new transfer tape, and the LED mounted on the corner of the old northbridge sink...i put it on the corner so that i could put the reflector on without the wires getting in the way and without me drilling holes . Untill my h22a sinks come this will do! The little yellow wire in the junction block i can remove and put my ammeter in there for current measurements. See below for a closer look at how i trimmed the reflector (its just the stock incan one).






and voila! shes alive! this is on minimum but who really cares, just a proof photo! Its horribly focused atm but the best i can do on this sink, but it still gives a crazy hot spot! In case you are wondering, ive been using my macro lens for all these hence the crazy depth of field on the photos...sorry about that. Ill bust out my compact digi later to take beamshots! 

Interestingly, at 5A, within 30 seconds i get smoke, i think its just the flux residue burning though on the star. My 20mm start works fine at 5A for at least an hour, so not sure whats happening yet. For now running at 3.6A, which gives me a very very small amount of smoke. No bluing of the led or browning of the phosphor, so not sure whats going on, but dont want to see my new XM-Ls going  so playing it safe for now!!!! In any case there is really not much diff between 5A and 3.6, definitely brighter, but not worth all the extra heat for now it seems... And yes the reflector is dirty and dusty somewhat from my cutting the cam off :naughty:.






And finally a shot of my reflector mod...i got some spares so will tune another one better when i get my h22a!






Will post my compact digi pics in a few days time!


----------



## mvyrmnd (May 25, 2011)

Looks like a cool project. Where abouts in Australia are you?


----------



## kkara4 (May 25, 2011)

mvyrmnd said:


> Looks like a cool project. Where abouts in Australia are you?


 
Brisbane sir!


----------



## mvyrmnd (May 25, 2011)

kkara4 said:


> Brisbane sir!


Sucks to be you! 

I'm curious to see how well your build holds up at 5A. Most people here are struggling at 3.5-4A with XM-L's. Evacuating the heat is the single biggest factor in driving them hard.


----------



## kkara4 (May 25, 2011)

Yeh the whole idea of mine is that i drive it at 5A for as long as i want...no problem in open still air, and this is on a sink designed to be used with airflow rather than without. Got to 82 ish degrees stable after an hour. I want maximum area on my sink to dissipate heat to the body, then im going to try and get someone to lathe the upper body/lower head for some finning.


----------



## kkara4 (May 25, 2011)

although 82 degrees is way to hot to touch without getting burnt! but i dont plan on getting my hand/fingers in proximity to that sort of heat anyway!


----------



## mvyrmnd (May 25, 2011)

The other thing to be careful about is how much of that heat makes its way to the batteries. 82 degrees is getting pretty scary around Li-Ion cells!


----------



## ljw2k (May 25, 2011)

Can i just say that the original Mag Spring WILL fit in the cap past the lip to the bottom, a little struggle and a few swear words but it does fit tight and snug trust me iv'e done 3 .


----------



## beekeeper5 (May 25, 2011)

ljw2k said:


> Can i just say that the original Mag Spring WILL fit in the cap past the lip to the bottom, a little struggle and a few swear words but it does fit tight and snug trust me iv'e done 3 .


 
Can you show us a picture?


----------



## PapaLumen (May 25, 2011)

Also a much easier way to remove the anno in the tailcap is to use drain cleaner/lye. I dilute 50/50 with warm water and pour a bit in the tailcap. You will see it frothing, dont let it froth over the edge. 5 mins, empty and rinse, all anno gone.


----------



## kkara4 (May 25, 2011)

PapaLumen said:


> Also a much easier way to remove the anno in the tailcap is to use drain cleaner/lye. I dilute 50/50 with warm water and pour a bit in the tailcap. You will see it frothing, dont let it froth over the edge. 5 mins, empty and rinse, all anno gone.


 
papalumen thankyou very much for that suggestion...i was starting to:hairpull: trying to get it out! I'll give that a try in the second phase on my project when i start neatening things up :naughty:


----------



## kkara4 (May 25, 2011)

ljw2k said:


> Can i just say that the original Mag Spring WILL fit in the cap past the lip to the bottom, a little struggle and a few swear words but it does fit tight and snug trust me iv'e done 3 .



ljw2k...even if i sunk the stock spring all the way into the cap, it would still be way too big and stiff...the spring I am using is just perfect in terms of both size and stiffness...additionally I wanted to keep the stock spring stock, so that in the future if i revert to 4 instead of 5 cells or switch to D size cells then i can just plonk that one back in and happy times.


----------



## kkara4 (May 25, 2011)

mvyrmnd said:


> The other thing to be careful about is how much of that heat makes its way to the batteries. 82 degrees is getting pretty scary around Li-Ion cells!



Hence why i decided against a metal battery sleeve! They are very well insulated inside the sleeve, both from heat and electrically. That aluminium tape is also high temp stuff so it wont melt or anything!

Later this afternoon I'll post a pic of my test bench as well, just realised havent done that!


----------



## ljw2k (May 25, 2011)

Sorry not got a picture at the moment but rest assured it does fit.


----------



## kkara4 (May 29, 2011)

see post #3 for more recent pics!


----------



## Mattaus (May 30, 2011)

mvyrmnd said:


> Sucks to be you!



aaaand what's wrong with Brisbane? Was weird seeing this thread come up because I'm doing my own 'first mod' but instead using a 3D in silver. XM-L too. Co-inky-dink!


----------



## kkara4 (May 30, 2011)

Mattaus said:


> Was weird seeing this thread come up because I'm doing my own 'first mod' but instead using a 3D in silver. XM-L too. Co-inky-dink!


 
Good to have a fellow brisbanite joining the club! What reflector are you using? The stock incan one is decent, the AL DX ones i got today are also pretty good but are designed for ssc P7 and sst-50 respectively, so they end up giving about the same result as the stock incan. Can't wait for my 7 degree cutter collimator to arrive...still on back order though


----------



## Mattaus (May 31, 2011)

I'm just sticking with the stock reflector at the moment. I need the flashlight for an upcoming road trip to Mt. Hotham in July and if I order anything from DX of KD now the chances of me getting them in time is poor...like their shipping speeds :-(

That been said I'm focusing my time on trying to make custom switch covers. For something different anyway!


----------



## kkara4 (May 31, 2011)

sounds cool! I'm having a very strange issue with my 14mm mpcb mounted xm-ls...at 3.6A, if i put the stock glass on the reflector, after about 5 minutes i get SMOKE! Not a lot but very visible. At 5A without the glass even, i start getting smoke within a minute, and cant tell but i think i get very slight bluing on the led itself (dont think so though). The smoke smells just like the flux smoke you get from soldering, and i have left flux residue on the stars, so im wondering if its the flux residue burning off? Anyone else had this experience with XM-L? Im going to switch back to my 20mm star today on my test rig to see what happens, because ive ran that at 5A for an hour with no problem...


----------



## yazovyet (May 31, 2011)

Could be that the 14mm board doesn't allow the heat out as fast as the 20mm. The 14mm does have about half the surface area for heat to flow in to the heatsink. 

I tend to clean up soldered areas with rubbing alcohol on a q tip. You might try that and see if it helps. 

Lastly I didn't even know you could over current an LED that much without killing it


----------



## kkara4 (May 31, 2011)

Certainly is possible, but dont think thats the case because plenty of people here have used 14mm stars just fine at 5A...yeh the XM-Ls are insanely overdrivable hence why i chose them!. Thanks a lot for your tip on removing the flux, ill try that in the next few hours and see how i go!

EDIT: Removing the flux made it a bit better, but much better i achieved using AS 5 and screwing the star down instead of the sekisui thermal tape...this confirms to me it is a temperature related issue, but i get absolutely no bluing or anything with 2 of my stars, so not sure whats happening :hairpull:

My concern comes when i put the stock mag reflector cover (clear plastic lens thing) ontop of the reflector as a little real-life simulation, and after a few minutes i take the cover off and the smoke has built up and i get the lovely smoke coming up in a little puff!

Anyway have passed on my concerns via PM to techjunkie to see his opinion on the matter.

This even occurs at 2.8A (which is rated max current)! albeit to a lesser degree. 

My thanks goes out to all of you who have provided me with advice and tips so far, much appreciated...keep em coming!


----------



## LilKevin715 (Jun 1, 2011)

kkara4 said:


> This even occurs at 2.8A (which is rated max current)! albeit to a lesser degree.



That isn't good at all. I can understand it happening past spec, but at spec or below it shouln't happen. I'm thinking something is wrong with the setup. It might sound like your 14mm board isn't making good contact with your heatsink. I know its easier to screw down a 20mm star, but you will need to make sure the 14mm board is making GOOD contact with the heatsink. Thermal paste alone isn't good enough to hold a 20mm star or 14mm board to a heatsink; you need pressure to keep it down, or thermal epoxy.


----------



## kkara4 (Jun 1, 2011)

Yep i got some screws today to screw down my 14mm stars which I definitely want to do. Don't trust this sekisui stuff for the LEDs but for the driver it is perfect. My 20mm star is definitely making good contact, screwed down nice and tight with a very thin layer of AS 5


----------



## kkara4 (Jun 1, 2011)

Alright so here is a picture of what i have decided will be my final mounting arrangement. 2 x M2.5 x 20 pan head bolts with Arctic Silver 5 (AS 5) thermal compound. Way better than thermal tape, thats for sure . 
I still get the weird smoke though! I did a little test, I hit it with 5A, made sure there was smoke under the lens, then dropped to minimum (50mA) and waited for everything to cool down. Then i lifted the cover off and NO SMOKE???? Either it is too fine to see normally, or it condensed or something :thinking:. I'm actually not bothered by it, doesnt affect the light output and i ran it for 25 mins at 5A with no issues! Fair bit of this smoke though!!!! Perhaps ill try get a picture later.....







And finally a picture of my momentary switch mod. Forget all the cutting splinds off stuff, this is an excellent solution in my opinion. Just a normal plain stainless steel washer stuck in place with some excess sekisui!






More pics as things happen....:thumbsup:
Really sorry about the colour balance in all my pics, got **** lighting in my room (**** for photos that is) and cant be bothered to photoshop them all...


----------



## coreyg13 (Jun 3, 2011)

Very Cool.
am new here so it is good to see this to learn.
i have a 2D and 3D mag i want to mod. 

am thinking about just dropping a xml in the 3d and just using stock alkaline batteries to drive it.


----------



## Mattaus (Jun 3, 2011)

> am thinking about just dropping a xml in the 3d and just using stock alkaline batteries to drive it.



Depends on the driver...I am using the Shiningbeam 2.8A driver in my Mag3D but I discovered that 3 Alkaline's are not the best for this setup. This is because while they start at 4.5V, they drop to 3.6V fairly quickly, which is below the drivers ideal Vin. This results in reduced current supply to the LED and poor performance which in turn defeats the purpose of putting the LED in!!!

Instead I've made my own battery sleeve to hold 4 NiMH C Cells. This results in a pretty constant 4.8V to the driver as the batteries discharge, and maximum performance from the XM-L over 80% of the discharge period.

Happy Days.


----------



## kkara4 (Jun 8, 2011)

I agree with Mattaus' solution. By the way Mattaus where in Brisbane are you?

Techjunkie kindly advised me that he thinks my smoke issue is probably flux burning off as well, so glad I got that verified somewhat. I'll work on getting the flux off sometime.

My heatsink design is in full swing, so will try to post pictures of the design some time. Also I'll try to get more pics of this flux burning.

What does everyone recommend in terms of overcurrent protection external to the batteries? The tailcap is an ideal place to put it in. Fuses are a bit difficult due to their length.


----------



## kkara4 (Jun 23, 2011)

Well sorry for the major delay, had exams and things, plus my 7 degree cutter optic only just shipped so not much I could do! Should arrive on Monday, then I can carry on with my heatsink design once I've tested it! My H22A heatsinks arrived but they are just tiny in comparison to what I'll be making! I'm glad I got them though, can use them for future mods and they are good for measuring and cheating off for my personal design!


----------



## Dalistro (Jul 8, 2011)

Was there much difference between 3 and 5A?

I've seen a few posts say there is practically no difference.


----------



## cdrake261 (Jul 9, 2011)

Keeping an eye on this thread...informative


----------



## simplec6 (Jul 13, 2011)

Hi there, so your h6flex is compatible with your mag switch washer mod to make it momentary? Have you measured tail cap current in all of the modes yet on your h6flex? I think I will be using the same driver for a triple xml mag mod. Where did you buy your h6flex?


----------



## simplec6 (Nov 4, 2011)

Ever get this finished up?


----------



## kkara4 (May 2, 2013)

simplec6 said:


> Ever get this finished up?



Well it has certainly been a while, and believe it or not, I only just managed to get my heatsink made (finalllly)!!!. I ended up having to get it done in the UK when I went on holiday and visited a friend with a machine shop, no one in Brisbane was interested in doing it for me as a one off and when they were they wanted >$200 for it. Also managed to get hold of a rebel deep reflector and a couple of other optics I'll be trying. I'll post photos of the heatsink a bit later!


----------



## The_Driver (May 3, 2013)

Interesting build!

Just a tip: you will gain hundreds of lumens if you mount the emitter on a copper Sinkpad PCB (or equivalent one from intl outdoor) instead of that aluminium one. 
At 5A it will really make a big difference and also lengthen the life of the emitter. 
With a cool-white XM-L2 you will gain around 350 Lumens @5A just by using a sinkpad (see test results here). I would also definitely use an XM-L2 led while you're at it. 

If you need links to these things you say so


----------



## kkara4 (May 3, 2013)

The_Driver said:


> Interesting build!
> 
> Just a tip: you will gain hundreds of lumens if you mount the emitter on a copper Sinkpad PCB (or equivalent one from intl outdoor) instead of that aluminium one.
> At 5A it will really make a big difference and also lengthen the life of the emitter.
> ...



Thanks for your tips! At the moment since I last left this project in 2011 XM-L2 wasn't available. I was looking at sinkpad but didn't know where I could get them from...only had a few minutes to look though. INternational freight for even the smallest items is sometimes rediculous. Link to U3 bin of the XM-L2 on a sinkpad would be much appreciated!


----------



## The_Driver (May 3, 2013)

kkara4 said:


> Thanks for your tips! At the moment since I last left this project in 2011 XM-L2 wasn't available. I was looking at sinkpad but didn't know where I could get them from...only had a few minutes to look though. INternational freight for even the smallest items is sometimes rediculous. Link to U3 bin of the XM-L2 on a sinkpad would be much appreciated!



Ok, here are some links.

16mm and 20mm Sinkpads can be had here. Shipping worldwide is only 4$. 
Intl outdoor has the same types of pcbs from different brand here. They are cheaper (shipping is free and you get two for the price of one). Shipping from them will probably take longer though. They will be available starting the 15th of May.
A special "BLF-edition" 16mm Sinkpad can be had here. This can be ground down to 14mm or 10mm diameter if you have to have this. The original BLF-Thread on this topic can be found here.

The one thing you will have to do is reflow the emitter yourself. All the sinkpads come without an emitter mounted on them. Reflowing an emitter can easily be done on a normal kitchen stovetop. Here is a thread with instructions and a video. Don't be scared of doing this. You will need solder (and maybe some extra flux) oder some solder paste. 

Also currently there is no U3 XM-L2. The most efficient one currently available is the XM-L2 U2. You can get them here from Cutter (Australian Shop). They have three different tints available. Just take the one you prefer.


----------



## kkara4 (May 3, 2013)

The_Driver said:


> Ok, here are some links.
> 
> 16mm and 20mm Sinkpads can be had here. Shipping worldwide is only 4$.
> Intl outdoor has the same types of pcbs from different brand here. They are cheaper (shipping is free and you get two for the price of one). Shipping form them will probably take longer though. They will be available starting the 15th of May.
> ...



OK thanks for the links, much appreciated. Yep I was going to correct myself RE the binning, U3 is for XM-L, U2 is for XM-L2. 1C tint bin is available from cutter (on 20mm star that is) will check stock on the others, I always order from them given I am in Brisbane, and they do me a good deal . Reflow is not an issue, I have a hot air rework station, and I have done the stove method as well, but thanks for the links anyway . Can be done no issue without solder paste, normal solder and tin the pads, some kester 186 and should be sweet


----------



## kkara4 (May 5, 2013)

So here is a heatsink of my own design that I got made by a good friend while I was on holiday in the UK...similar to the H22A rebel heatsink but the base has been machined to accomodate my h6flex nicely, and the LED post has some holes drilled for wires as needed. Since this is a prototype I will be tweaking the design for my second revision, after initial testing will see what I want to do, also want to test out several different optics and try and design it to accomodate the optic nicely as well .


----------

