# Surefire Beast



## knife guy (Oct 29, 2006)

I have been looking around the forums here for a while. It seems that the polarion is putting out much more light than the surefire beast. And it cost 1/4 of the price. Is the SF beast worth the $4,100.00? Is the Polarion durable? It looks like it's made of plastic. I like SF brand lights the best, but think 4,100 is too much money for 2000 lumens. Or are the other superlights just claiming higher numbers than they really put out. I've read the reviews and see that the SF is not meant for throw, but how does it compare to the M6's throw. Is it less than that, or more? These are some questions I need to know before making the purchase. Thanks.


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## Trashman (Oct 29, 2006)

I shouldn't even be posting, as I have neither, but I will say that the M6 isn't really a throw monster. I'd guess that the beast would out throw the M6 by at least double. Hopefully, some of the members who actually have both will post.

What are you planning on using the light for? There may even be cheaper or better options that the polarion.


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## knife guy (Oct 29, 2006)

I just want a light that is super powerful just for the wow factor. I really don't need anything in this power level, as the M6 is pretty much all I need. I just kinda want it. The x990 I wouldn't consider buying because I really don't like the way it looks to put it nicely I like the construction of SF lights as posted above. Plus I like the 12 lumen led option built in. If it out throws the M6X2 Then I might seriously consider buying one as the M6 throws pretty far in my opinion while still giving off plenty of corona. I don't want a spotlight. They are not really of much use to me. My major use would be while walking around in the woods.Thanks.


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## Ken J. Good (Oct 30, 2006)

The Polarion PH40 Helios body and bezel are made of aerospace grade aluminum (6061 T6) with a Type III Hard Ano finish. 

Throw, compared to a 350-500 lumen M6, not even in the same category of lights.

Don't get me wrong, I have an M6 and it is a great light, but you are comparing a car to a semi-truck.


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## NAW (Oct 30, 2006)

Although I don't own the Helios, I think it is just one heck of a engineering marvel. From what I seen it is one awesome light. Keep in mind the Helios is a 40W HID and the Beast is a 35W HID. The Beast wouldn't stand a chance...


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## Free (Oct 30, 2006)

I have The Beast (original version) as well as the Helios. 

The Helios is more compact, brighter, and more reasonably priced. The Helios is also a very solid well built light, there is nothing plastic about it. 

Hard to say which one looks cooler. That would be personal preference, but I think they both look pretty cool.


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## BVH (Oct 30, 2006)

Free, I definitely think the Helios looks cooler - but then again I may not be impartial! Unless you've held a Helios, its not too hard to think it may be made of plastic based on some of the photos here on CPF. You've got to see it in-person to get an idea of its beauty!


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## HammerSandwich (Nov 1, 2006)

knife guy said:


> I just want a light that is super powerful just for the wow factor. I really don't need anything in this power level...


You're considering dropping $4k for "wow factor"?


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## Size15's (Nov 1, 2006)

HammerSandwich said:


> You're considering dropping $4k for "wow factor"?



In this world there are ever increasing numbers of people for whom $4k isn't a lot of money and as a result the number of people with the means and motive to drop $4k for the "wow factor" buy spending it on anything is increasing also.


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## KROMATICS (Nov 1, 2006)

What about the Beast jr and what will that cost?


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## NAW (Nov 1, 2006)

KROMATICS said:


> What about the Beast jr and what will that cost?


 
You mean the Mini Beast?

I heard its around $4000.


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## EVAN_TAD (Nov 1, 2006)

Can the Helios use lithium and rechargeable batteries like the Beast?
Is there a low setting?
The beast comes in a nice lockable case.

The Beast 1 was released well before the Helios.

I own the original beast and am very happy with it.

Ken, is the Helios made in the US?


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## Ken J. Good (Nov 2, 2006)

Helios is made in South Korea.

It uses a proprietary Lithion-Ion rechargeable battery.

1 setting...LOUD, no low setting at this point.

Best to you.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 2, 2006)

If you want a WOW factor, get a XeVision 50W and try to work your way into Dan's graces when he offers the Barn Burner 75W upgrade to those of us who bought them at the first 50W GB. None of these lights comes remotely close to the Barn Burner, which I also recently bought from a person who needed to sell his. The spotlight shootouts make it clear.


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## KROMATICS (Nov 3, 2006)

NAW said:


> You mean the Mini Beast?
> 
> I heard its around $4000.



Ack! They really need something in the sub $1500 range above the M6 but below the Beast II. I thought this would be it but I guess not.


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## NAW (Nov 3, 2006)

KROMATICS said:


> Ack! They really need something in the sub $1500 range above the M6 but below the Beast II. I thought this would be it but I guess not.


 
The base price I heard was $4160.

I have no idea as to why the price is so high compared to other small HID lights like the Nextorch, Microfire, etc...

It *better* be Instant On, instant restrike, rechargeable, a one hour runtime at least, should incorporate LED as secondary illumination, etc. And it better be able to outshine the 24W Microfire HID.

Because if it ain't then I think there should be no reason as to the high price tag... but maybe someone who knows more about the specs of the Mini can pitch in with more information.


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## Lightcrazycanuck (Mar 13, 2007)

*The Beast*

I just took a look through the SF cat. and spotted this flashlight called the Beast.Anybody have one of these or used one? This thing looks amazing and the price of it is crazy,$4900.00 WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kiessling (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: The Beast*

I have jsut handled a Beast II at the IWA (Germany) and it is rpetty clear why it is more expensive then other HIDs of similar output. It is built like a tank. It has secondary output. It has rechargeable and non rechargeable option. It breathes quality. None of the others I know ca match this.

The Helios is less sturdy but maybe a bit brighter (I can't say for sure). It is also blessed with a very short start-up time, just like the Beast. It is smaller and a bit lighter, too. And it should throw further due to the different beam shape, but I couldn't check this for sure.

Both destroy a SF M6 hands down. Except for carry options maybe 


The X990 is a very good performer, especially for the price. It isn't watertight though.


*I* would get the Beast II ... for the CR123 option and secondary level as well as build quality. But that is just me.

bernie


P.S.: isn't the Helios now at about $2000?


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## seery (Mar 13, 2007)

I've had a Beast II on order for several months and according to SF last
week, it may be shipping to my dealer very soon!

Evan - The points you made are some of the exact reasons I chose the
Beast II over the Helios or any other HID light. I'm envious you have one
of the original Beast lights.

Here are my personal reasons for choosing the Beast over the competition.

- Extreme build quality. Nothing else even comes close.
- The fact that SF is in no hurry to release it. Some may look at this as a
negative, it proves to me SF's promise to make sure it's done right.
- Low level LED's. A huge plus.
- Perfect blend of throw and intense flood for my needs.
- Ability to use primary 123 cells and the included rechargeable handle.
This is extremely important IMO.
- The well thought out case with integral charger and charger options. The
spare handle threads into a dedicated spot in the case!
- Everything needed/desired is included from the start. No getting nailed on
all the extras.
- Surefire's great track record and customer service here in the states.
- LIFETIME warranty. SF recently fixed a 13 year old 9N, no questions asked.
- *MADE IN THE USA! *This alone would be reason enough.

At SHOT 2007, I checked out the Helios at Matt Burkett's booth as well as
the Beast II and other HID's. Compared to the Beast, the others IMO seemed
like well made toys. Just my opinion of course. 



EVAN_TAD said:


> Can the Helios use lithium and rechargeable batteries like the Beast?
> Is there a low setting?
> The beast comes in a nice lockable case.
> 
> ...


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## hoppy1010 (Mar 13, 2007)

I have the Helios PF40 and it is one amazing light
Surefires are nice just a bit out of my price range.
For the money I would go for the helios. I don't
think you could find a better guy to deal with than
Ken. Thats just my opinion and everyone is entitled
to one.:thumbsup: 

Regards Jay


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## Kiessling (Mar 13, 2007)

I don't think we're arguing wether Mr. Good is a nice guy or not. His willingness to spend his time here with us discussing his lights is telling enough for me.

We're talking lights here. And to be honest ... for us "armchair" light users :nana: ... a light like the X990 or whatever else will do just fine. We won't throw our precious lights down the street to check if they still work or not. So, apart from the "must have" aspect of our hobby we do not need a Beast.

BUT ... those who go out to meet the devil might depend upon such features. Lights build like tanks. A spare primary battery handle. Whatever. Those people will pay the premium for such a tool. 

bk


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## NAW (Mar 14, 2007)

...


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## PoliceScannerMan (Mar 14, 2007)

NAW said:


> You can imagine what people around you would think if you paid thousands of dollars for these lights.



I could not care less what people think about my light purchases, I'm waiting on the UPS man right now to deliver a Maxabeam to the compound today. 

For the money, I would get a 50W XeVision like LuxLuthor suggested. 

This year at SHOT, I had my XeVision 50W and another well known CPFer had a Polarion. After a few brewksies I challenged him to a shootout. :naughty:

First off, your comparing a 40W to a 50W, the Polarion never had a chance. The 50W smoked it. 

The Polarion definatley looks cooler, it is a sweet sweet light. 

But for the money, I would call Dan @ XeVision, I have been very happy with mine in real world use. Like Navigating my boat down a dark narrow river in the middle of the night. Damn that was awesome! :rock:


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## BVH (Mar 14, 2007)

Now, Now, Mr. PSM...After being at multiple shootouts where both lights were present, I agree the Xeray is somewhat visibly brighter than the Helios overall but I wouldn't say it "smokes" it. I think there's a little exaggeration going on there. Or maybe your vision was slightly impaired due to the consumption of that amber liquid? :nana: 

For actual medium to long distance searching, the Helios provides a brighter and wider corona, hense a wider, brighter field of view.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Mar 14, 2007)

From what I saw, the XeVision had a "Bigger field of view", and way more throw.... Smoked it.


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## hoppy1010 (Mar 14, 2007)

I am kind of new here and I respect your opinion PSM but I still love my PF40 one sweet light.
Regards Jay


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## PoliceScannerMan (Mar 14, 2007)

hoppy1010 said:


> I am kind of new here and I respect your opinion PSM but I still love my PF40 one sweet light.
> Regards Jay



Absolutley! They are both big guns! Its just not fair to compare a 40W to a 50W! If I had the extra $$$, I would definatley grab a Polarion! The one I saw at SHOT was of very high quality. There is no question, the Polarion hung with the XeVision. I just like to say "stomped"...


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## BVH (Mar 14, 2007)

I thought you liked to say "smoked"? Where did "stomp" come from? Come on! You're confusing me!

Get a Maxabeam, and you go all krazy!


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## PoliceScannerMan (Mar 14, 2007)

BVH said:


> I thought you liked to say "smoked"? Where did "stomp" come from? Come on! You're confusing me!


I meant smoked! :lolsign:


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## jch79 (Mar 15, 2007)

BVH said:


> Or maybe your vision was slightly impaired due to the consumption of that amber liquid?


Mmmmm... amber liquid...


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## 65535 (Mar 15, 2007)

The polarion just looks easier to handle, don't get me wrong the XeRay is a respected piece, and a SF is a SF but, for price and output a XeRay is about the best way to go, I think they are even waterproof, plus light, use high grade lithiums cells, and they are adjustable.


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## NAW (Mar 15, 2007)

65535 said:


> use high grade lithiums cells,


 
I don't want to hijack the thread but I do believe the Xeray uses 12 18650 batteries. I don't know why but I have a thing for finding out how much 18650s manufacturers cram into there lights.  

Xeray- 12X 18650
Rayzorlite- 12X 18650
AE 24W- 6X 18650

If anyone knows how much 18650s there are in the Polarion lights & in the beast II please let me know.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 15, 2007)

I'm still having a hard time trying to figure out why someone would be looking for a light that you can throw down the street....like if the $4500+ came out of your own pocket, you would treat a light that way. It's like saying you would throw your $5,000 laptop down the highway.

The only thing I can figure for the Beast is it is being bought with OPM ("Other People's Money" = aka "the taxpayer"), and like the $1200 toilet seat, and the $600 hammer, these govt./corporate purchasers enjoy wasting OPM money.

While it's true that the various shots are not that much different between the 50W XeRay and some of the Polarion models....I was mainly saying the best deal is the 75W Barn Burner if you want a "WOW" factor that this thread started with.


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## greenstuffs (Mar 15, 2007)

The only thing that is WOW about the Surefire Beast is its pricetag and the name other than that is the most overrated HID ever. I much rather go for a polarion helios.


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## NAW (Mar 15, 2007)

For wow factor, I think the light for that job is the Polarion X1. The output that little light can put out for the size is incredible. Also I agree with the BB statement.


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## Free (Mar 17, 2007)

I bought my Beast, back when it first came out, and it truly was the coolest HID available then. 

Now, I have the Helios, and also the 75w BB, and would choose one of those, depending on my priorities. The Beast remains in its case, as a collectors item.

If I want absolute maximum output, I grab the BB. If I want more compact size, and cool factor, I grab the Helios.


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## Ken J. Good (Mar 17, 2007)

Here are some direct comparison photos sent to me last night.
I sent a follow-on email for the distances and camera settings.
I do know based on the photographers experience with these type of comparisons the settings were consistent for each shot/comparison.











Here is the commentary:

_

"Ken,

Here's some photos of my comparisons.

If you see the "Zoom" photos, you can clearly see that
the helios is the brightest. Look at the center of
the beam and also look at the foreground. Even the X1
is brighter in the center than the Hellfighter. The
Beast, as you know, is no match for any of these
lights.

The Hellfighter, with it's 45W output and 5"
reflector, cannot match the Helios with it's 40W
output and 3" reflector.

The wide pics tell another story. The X1 has the
smallest illuminated area. But remember, you want the
light to throw the light at the TARGET. So most of
it's output is directed at the place you want it to
go. You are getting less waste.

Anyway, with the other lights, the beast and the
hellfighter seem close. Although the surefires have a
"smoother" transition due to their smooth reflectors,
the Helios is illuminating just as much area, and
actually towards the edges of the beams, you can see
more detail!

Amazing."
_

What I got out of the photos in a nutshell, the Beast is not a Beast.
Only when you step up the the HellFighter can I say, that there is some direct comparison with the smaller Polarions.
I supposed if you want to spend $4800 to light up stuff 50 yards away from you, the "Beast" might be an option....  

Again, we are just talking lightout here. When you start talking size, weight, portability, batteries, price.....There is no comparison.

I would agree with the previous poster. The Beast is best served as a collectors item.

You can also see the X1 holds it own very well against it's bigger brother the Helios. But you can also see the additional mid-range coverage (where those extra lumens of the Helios are showing up).


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

It has been my understanding the "Hellfire" / Hellfighter from Surefire is only a 35 watt HID. Even their literature indicates this.


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## ShortArc (Mar 17, 2007)

Also let’s not forget SF reflectors are speckled and illuminate a broader area in a very uniform manner.


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

ShortArc said:


> Also let’s not forget SF reflectors are speckled and illuminate a broader area in a very uniform manner.


 
Are you sure that is true on the Hellfire model?


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## seery (Mar 17, 2007)

Yes the Helios and X1 throw very nicely.

But compared to the Beast, the overall beam quality of the
Helios and X1 leaves much room for improvement.


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## seery (Mar 17, 2007)

XeRay said:


> It has been my understanding the "Hellfire" / Hellfighter from Surefire is only a 35 watt HID. Even their literature indicates this.


XeRay - That's correct. The 2007 spec sheet shows the Hellfighter as
35watt HID D1S.


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

seery said:


> Yes the Helios and X1 throw very nicely.
> 
> But compared to the Beast, the overall beam quality of the
> Helios and X1 leaves much room for improvement.


 
Saying something many times does not make it any more true. Save the propaganda, you bought a Beast and can't admit to yourself you overpaid. Helios is a far better buy than any Beast or Hellfire. Polarion / Helios is also our competition. 

Face the obvious, Surefire is an overpriced overhyped brand that could be *exactly* copied and sold for less than 1/2 the price with a VERY healthy profit margin still left.

The only reason we have not bothered with going after that market segment is it is too small. Not many people want to pay $2000 - $5000 for a flashlight of any kind.


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## BVH (Mar 17, 2007)

seery said:


> But compared to the Beast, the overall beam quality of the
> Helios and X1 leaves much room for improvement.



I certainly have an opinion of beam quality of the Helios and X1 that is 180 degrees opposite of Seery. I think the beam quality of both lights is outstanding. I can't figure out what you mean, Seery, by "leaves much room for improvement"? What does it lack and what does it need to be improved?


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## seery (Mar 17, 2007)

XeRay said:


> Saying something many times does not make it any more true. Save the propaganda, you bought a Beast and can't admit to yourself you overpaid. Helios is a far better buy than any Beast or Hellfire. Helios is even my competitor.
> 
> Face the obvious, Surefire is an overpriced overhyped brand that could be *exactly* copied and sold for less than 1/2 the price with a VERY healthy profit margin still left.
> 
> The only reason we have not bothered with going after that market segment is it is too small. Not many people want to pay $2000 - $5000 for a flashlight of any kind.


The Beast is still on order, free to change my mind should another light
prove an adversary.

Surefire overpriced? Subjective.
Surefire overhyped? No.
Exactly copied? While SF is busy doing all the R&D you make statements
like this! You need to take a few notes from SF when it comes to building
quality lights.
You going after SF's market? Please!


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## BVH (Mar 17, 2007)

A "Hit & Run" emotional response to Xeray and gone without answering my legit questions?


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## seery (Mar 17, 2007)

BVH said:


> I certainly have an opinion of beam quality of the Helios and X1 that is 180 degrees opposite of Seery. I think the beam quality of both lights is outstanding. I can't figure out what you mean, Seery, by "leaves much room for improvement"? What does it lack and what does it need to be improved?


BVH - I would like to see a better transition/less of the brown corona.
For throwers like these though, this may become less of any issue as the
intended target distance is increased.


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## ShortArc (Mar 17, 2007)

Actually I am not sure if that is true (speckled reflector) for the Hellfire Model, my apologies.




XeRay said:


> Are you sure that is true on the Hellfire model?


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

seery said:


> You need to take a few notes from SF when it comes
> to building quality lights. You going after SF's market? Please!


 
We already (done contract deal) took a 600+ light order from them. as for your "please" my answer: Thank you very much laughing all the way to the bank. Our product took every vibration etc. test the customer threw at it and never "missed a beat." 

BTW, that would have been a $1.5 million order for Surefire, "pocket change" (NOT) to them I am sure.

We don't show ALL of our products on our website. We do have our "Skunkworks" dept. and associated secret projects / Products.


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## seery (Mar 17, 2007)

XeRay said:


> We already (done contract deal) took a 600+ light order from them. as for your "please" my answer: Thank you very much laughing all the way to the bank. Our product took every vibration etc. test the customer threw at it and never "missed a beat."
> 
> BTW, that would have been a $1.5 million order for Surefire, pocket change to them I am sure.


Well done and congrats, I sincerely mean that.

The 1.5M probably is small beans to SF, but nonetheless it is beans and at the
end of the day it all matters.


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

It has been our mission to have a "proper" balance between price and profit margin and still maintain performance and durability. This means the military can afford many more units for the money budgeted. We do not gouge the American Taxpayer, we don't charge "obscene" prices. This means MORE of our guys will have the advantage of a high performance light, than they would if they cost twice as much. The military does have to work within a budget. As a taxpayer I want value for my tax dollar, you should too.

Now I will get off my sopbox.

Our units are NOT copies of any Surefire product, any similarity ends with the bulb used.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 17, 2007)

Blind loyalty to every product that SF makes is not wise, and the tone of Seery's condescending comments is pathetic. Using objective beamshot testing, functional performance, features, construction quality, company support, and reliability for a given price is the way to properly evaluate the cost/benefit of various models. 

As an end user, I find SF's customer support and horrible delays among the worst of any company I have ever dealt with. It took 3 phone calls and 4 emails just to get a replacement O-ring for my SF L2, and backup bulb for my M4. None of the SF people I spoke with on the phone had an attitude that was the least bit friendly, or concerned for me as a customer. I have seen many other posts from people on this forum with similar delays and poor customer service. I can't imagine if I had one of their high end lights in a mission critical scenario. I would rule out SF just on that basis alone, and have not even thought of buying another SF light since that experience.

IMHO, to see Seery come up with "better transition/less of the brown corona," as justification for SF's overwhelming superiority is surely a joke, given the price difference. You don't think users are capable of moving the beam over a few degrees to bypass that minor issue, knowing they paid a fraction of the price-bloated SF lineup? Surely Seery has more of a basis to canonize "Saint Surefire" than brown corona transitions of its competitors?

Edit: LOL! I also think Dan's tongue in cheek reference to SF using "treasonist prices" is over the top and weakens his case.


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## NAW (Mar 17, 2007)

Polarion X1  

Polarion Helios


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Edit: LOL! I also think Dan's tongue in cheek reference to SF using "treasonist prices" is over the top and weakens his case.


 
Changed to "obscene", don't want to go "over the top". Even if I still believe what I said originally, case now fortified LUX.


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

seery said:


> The Beast is still on order, free to change my mind should another light
> prove an adversary.
> 
> Surefire overpriced? "Get a better paying job."
> ...


 
This is what you did say, after editing (darn you beat me to it). 

I hear crow tastes pretty good. 

I should be more tactful but sometimes I can't hold back. 

I'll repent before church tomorrow if I feel a conviction (need), seriously.


seery said:


> Well done and congrats, I sincerely mean that.


Bitter sweet congrats received.


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## BVH (Mar 17, 2007)

Hey Dan, when is that last "bomb" going to drop on your secret new light/upgrade or whatever it might be. Oh, i think it was the 90 Watter, wasn't it?


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## seery (Mar 17, 2007)

XeRay said:


> Don't forget this is what you did say. I hear crow tastes pretty good. I should be more tactful but sometimes I can't hold back. I'll repent before church tomorrow if I feel convicted.
> Bitter sweet congrats offered.


Rephrase please. Not quite certain what you are saying?


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

BVH said:


> Hey Dan, when is that last "bomb" going to drop on your secret new light/upgrade or whatever it might be. Oh, i think it was the 90 Watter, wasn't it?


 
"Last Bomb?" You mean next Bomb. Gona have to wait till the 2nd long term contract is in hand on our 2nd new secret weapon. We have a few more to unveil in the next few months besides that "big one" MOAB you refer to. BTW, MOAB bomb means Mother of all bombs. Google it. That gives me an idea for the next "earth shaking" product unveiling from the BB to "MOAB". Since we are located in Utah all the more fitting. MOAB is a "slick rock" town in Southern Utah, Very popular with 4X4's and Mtn Bikes. World renowned for off road activities.


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## XeRay (Mar 17, 2007)

seery said:


> Rephrase please. Not quite certain what you are saying?


 Done, hope I cleared it up. Slight puncuation change and word choice.
:touche:


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## seery (Mar 17, 2007)

XeRay said:


> Done, hope I cleared it up. Slight grammar change and word choice.


All clear now.


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## m3m4 (Mar 17, 2007)

Looks like i'm changing my mind from the Beast to the Helios for now, unless something spactular appears on the beast.


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## Ken J. Good (Mar 18, 2007)

As stated on a my prevoius post, I would get the camera data:

*Distance to target:* Approx 210 Yards

*Camera Settings: *
F Stop: 5.6
Exposure: 8 seconds
White Balance: Sun


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## 65535 (Mar 18, 2007)

Well the bew beast, is an incredibly nice light, but the helios is great too, they both use a ring switch, but the newest version of the beast has the HID beam and white LED's with a couple of UV leds, the design as I am told is for mainly border patrol officers, who would use the UV light being emitted to help them identify scorpions, it just helps them stick out. Now their is no doubt that the Beast or the Helios are meant for a huge wall of light, both the amondotech and Costco HID's blow them away for range, but the Helios definately is probably a better choice for someone who would be using the light often and carring it around, unless you carry a rucksack or a backpack the Beast is just too large to carry.

A few comparative notes:

The beast has a beautiful 4200K bulb and an MOP reflector with a wonderful beam to match.

The Helios has a blue 6000K bulb and a smooth reflector, which has some artifacting and rings.


Personnally I would put up the money for the Beast, even though the ratings are soo different, the 4200K bulb with the smoother beam and LED's plus the rubber impact protection, just make it nicer, no doubt the Helio is smaller and lighter but, the Beast is just more my style. The XeRay lights are also very nice.


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## Ken J. Good (Mar 18, 2007)

With a stippled reflector you lose “throw”. It’s a trade-off I personally don’t think is a good one for an HID searchlight of in this power/penetration range. 

It is the same reason, we did not go with that type of reflector in the Night-Ops Gladius.

It is personal choice. Some folks like it, some don’t. It’s what makes the world go around…

Helios and the X1 both have a color temp of 4300K.
Rubber impact accessory in the works. 

Using your Beast in LED Mode for finding Scorpions....I find that humorous actually.

That being said, if that is what they want to do with their Beast, far be if from me to tell them how to do their business.

The border patrol agents that I put a Helios with have been using the Night-Ops Gladius in it's lowest setting for Navigation purposes as opposed to moving around a fairly hefty HID light for that purpose.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 18, 2007)

The Helios and X1 beams are perfect. They do just what they are desigined to do and that is throw lots of light down field in a bright wide well defined corona and hotspot.

The Beast beam is perfect. It does just what it is designed to do and that is provide an even wide beam that illuminates a decent distance. The Beast 2 is pretty cool too and it seems to throw farther then the Beast. It also looks a good deal bigger then the original Beast. I was too busy tonight to take a real close look at it when PK brought it out tonight at the get together, but I was only about 4 feet away from it. One real cool feature is the LED's that also go UV so border patrol can see scorpions.
I do not know all of the details so check the specks, but I do have some friends that used to live in Arizona and they would never go on their screened porch at night without first shining a UV light to do a scorpion check and when PK mentioned this it reminded me of them.

I don't agree with part of the assesment that was written for Ken and I own an X1.

The statement I don't agree with is the-

The wide pics tell another story. The X1 has the
smallest illuminated area. But remember, you want the
light to throw the light at the TARGET. So most of
it's output is directed at the place you want it to
go. You are getting less waste.

I don't like absolute statements like this. 
What if the target is an entire field within 150 yards?
Then the Beast would be the best choice of these lights.
If a light is designed to illuminate a large area evenly then it's light is not wasted when it does that. 

If the Beast in the pictures was designed to throw far, then Surefire failed and the above statement would be correct.
I REALLY DO NOT THINK the Beast in the photo's above was designed for maximum throw. Therefore I do not feel the statement I have quoted in green is appropriate.

It is just as inappropriate as Seery inferring that Polarion messed up.
Polarion had a specific goal that it wanted to achieve with the beam pattern in the Helios and X1 and succeeded in what they wanted to do.

There is a difference between us saying we like one beam pattern or another and saying one companies beam pattern needs to be fixed.

I really like the beam pattern of my new X1 and how it throws lots of bright light in a wide path down field for times I need a light to do that.
There are times I want one light to light a wide area and then I will use my
N30. Is one beam pattern better then the other? NO, different beams patterns for different purposes.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 18, 2007)

While in theory what you said about the different beam pattern for different purposes is entirely accurate, as well as subject to individual preferences. *However*, when you use a hand held spotlight you are moving around with a variety of terrains and distances to be illuminated. 

I think the main decision on which light is whether you want a far throw for long distances illumination, or a short/medium distance primary use. There are not any of the lights that do really good in both categories. 

I think that main distinction is the first decision branch....then once you look at the lights that have great throw (or short/medium distance performance), you can quibble over which has the beam pattern and other features/price/support.


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## NAW (Mar 18, 2007)

Ken J. Good said:


> With a stippled reflector you lose “throw”. It’s a trade-off I personally don’t think is a good one for an HID searchlight of in this power/penetration range.


 
I agree. Latley I have been dieing to get a SMO reflector for my Rayzorlite. The heavy stippling on the bottom makes the beam more nice & floody But I would prefer "full potential brightness".

SMO reflectors rule!!


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## mtbkndad (Mar 18, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> While in theory what you said about the different beam pattern for different purposes is entirely accurate, as well as subject to individual preferences. *However*, when you use a hand held spotlight you are moving around with a variety of terrains and distances to be illuminated.
> 
> I think the main decision on which light is whether you want a far throw for long distances illumination, or a short/medium distance primary use. There are not any of the lights that do really good in both categories.
> 
> I think that main distinction is the first decision branch....then once you look at the lights that have great throw (or short/medium distance performance), you can quibble over which has the beam pattern and other features/price/support.



Yes, I think we are essentially agreeing here. 
People need to choose what is most important to them and then buy the light that meets their primary need best and live with how it fulfills their secondary needs if they cannot get more then one light. 

Then they need to realize that if light A suits their primary need best it does not instantly make other lights "not as good" just because they were designed to meet another set of primary needs.

I am one of he lucky ones that can not only have more then one light, but have duplicates of numerous lights. So for me I can have different lights for different purposes and even pull some out just because it would be fun to use them on a given night.


Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## NAW (Mar 18, 2007)

65535 said:


> The Helios has a blue 6000K bulb


 
6000K is typical of most 24W and lower HIDs. The bigger guns (35W +) normally have around 4000K temp.


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## seery (Mar 18, 2007)

mtbkndad said:


> The Helios and X1 beams are perfect. They do just what they are desigined to do and that is throw lots of light down field in a bright wide well defined corona and hotspot.
> 
> The Beast beam is perfect. It does just what it is designed to do and that is provide an even wide beam that illuminates a decent distance.


Well stated. Sometimes expressing our opinions and the way we feel with
typed words proves more difficult that it seems. If the comment I made had
been spoken with a group of peers while conversing and enjoying lights, within
seconds your point would have been brought up and I would have agreed and
life would have moved on. Then sometimes my very combative nature causes
follow-up comments that are off the point and sometimes uncalled for.


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## 65535 (Mar 18, 2007)

PK insists that you have flood, because the way your eye scans the field of view, a spot makes it hard if no timpossible to see perihperally, as for the Beast being designed for military applications where you need nothing but a huge wall of bright light, a flood works better for the eyes.

No doubt you won't be happy with a Helios, you really can't say it's not well built, unless you have something against Non american made stuff, the Helios is probably better. (don't get me wrong I would still grab a beast just because)


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## mtbkndad (Mar 18, 2007)

seery said:


> Well stated. Sometimes expressing our opinions and the way we feel with
> typed words proves more difficult that it seems. If the comment I made had
> been spoken with a group of peers while conversing and enjoying lights, within
> seconds your point would have been brought up and I would have agreed and
> ...



You should really enjoy your new Beast.
I hope you have a Beast 2 coming, It looks way nicer then the original Beast.
One of the main reasons I got my X1 sooner then later is because I was most vocal about my concerns regarding the original switch design and distribution issues.
Now that those have been taken care of I felt it was only reasonable to get the X1 like I said I would. It really is an amaizing little HID.

If PK did not include lights like the Helios, X1, X990, and XeRay in his statement quoted by 65535, it is as much a sales pitch as the statement I quoted in green in a post above. The Maxabeam has a spot beam. The Costco HID has a spot beam.

The Helios and X1 have a balance between flood and throw. The X990 are adjustable from spot to flood. If you look closely at the P1 photo's in my N30 announcement thread you will see that it's corona is nearly as wide as the X990 on flood while still throwing farther.

The X1 and Helios have even wider coronas and seem to throw farther then the P1.
In other words the Surefire Beast, Polarion Helios, Polarion X1, X990, and XeRay are all variations of a flood type beam. The Beast gives near to medium range flood and depending on the focus the X990 and XeRay do too. The X990, Helios, X1, and XeRay give medium to long range flood. (X990 and XeRay depending on their adjustment).

Here is my take on the Helios, X1, and the Beast. The Beast is much bigger then the other two.
Does that in itself mean it is made tougher, no. 

I won't be impressed with any drop demonstrations until they are done Tigerlight style. Throw around as far as you can while on in a big parking lot with NO rubber bumbers.
I would also think the Helios and X1 could handle being run over better then a Beast due to their more compact shapes and designs. Yet that would not really prove anything. Manufacturers tend to do demonstrations that accentuate their products strengths.

When people look at the Helios they often "say that light looks real cool". When they look at the X1 the say, "Wow that light is tiny for a 35 watt HID". I know at least one person said, "the Beast looks like you could shine people AND the beat the "bejeebers" out of them with it." I tend to agree with those statements.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## NAW (Mar 18, 2007)

mtbkndad said:


> I would also think the Helios and X1 could handle being run over better then a Beast due to their more compact shapes and designs. Yet that would not really prove anything. Manufacturers tend to do demonstrations that accentuate their products strengths.


 
To tell you the truth, I think most people don't purchase lights over others beacause it can withstand being run-over & the other can not. 

I think for most people, as long as the light can witstand being dropped several feet to the pavement, then thats good with them. I mean because for most people, a drop to the pavement would probably the worst thing that will ever happen to them. Sure being able to be run-over is great but who here has ever got there lights run over?

For me, when I saw the Rayzorlite video(where the guy was throwing the unit around), I thought it was good enough for me because most likely I will never subject my light to anything worse than this.

Statistically, I'm sure the chances are 1 out of a million who will get there lights shot at, run over, exploded, etc.

But of course I'm sure there will be some who will disagree with me.


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## Ken J. Good (Mar 18, 2007)

mtbkndad and All.

SF just plain pisses me off and sometimes it comes out in me. If you have been in my shoes in the past and even recently with some "interesting things" in the background you would see from my perspective. 

That being said, I am going to have to applaud you and agree with your overall and excellent assessment of the big picture.

Let the buyer choose based on the design parameters selected and executed.
No one light fills the complete spectrum.

Best to everybody.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 19, 2007)

NAW, 

We are making the same point. And I agree with you to a point
You said-

To tell you the truth, I think most people don't purchase lights over others beacause it can withstand being run-over & the other can not. 

That is what I am getting at, whether one HID light can be thrown with rubber bumpers or another can be run over or whatever. I do want to emphasize the NOBODY from Polarion that I know of has ever said a Helios or X1 can be run over. 

I was using that example because judging from the design of each of the lights running over a Helios, X1 and Beast COULD be done in a manner that would unfairly exploit the weak point in the Beast body. This would be equal to saying the Beast 2 is tougher because it can handle being thrown around with it's rubber bumpers on.

Purchase of these lights should be based on how well they meet your needs. I also think if somebody has the funds and wants a Beast 2, they should not be critcized for their choice. I was suprised at the size of the Beast 2. It is bigger then I thought it would be.

Where I may disagree is that I may buy the Tigerlight just so I can turn it on and throw it around and show people how cool it is to have it bang into the ground and keep working. If the owner of Tigerlight does that in a video then he had better expect people like me to consider that part of the functionality of the light  .

Ken J Good,

Thank you for the kind words and I believe your products will do real well.
The X1 I just received last week is eveything I hoped it would be.
I really like the improvements to the switching mechanism and was demonstrating last night how easy it is to turn on and off with one finger and yet how it has a more positive and secure stop in both the on and off position then the old switch design. BVH and I were talking about how his first Helios was both harder to turn and did not stop in a very positive manner. His new one works great. The fact that his Helios problem was taken care of in such a nice manner says a lot for you and your company 
:thumbsup: .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## NAW (Mar 19, 2007)

Ken J. Good said:


> Helios and the X1 both have a color temp of 4300K.


 
Does the original Polarion P1 have a 4300K temp also?


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## mtbkndad (Mar 19, 2007)

NAW said:


> Does the original Polarion P1 have a 4300K temp also?



The P1 uses a 4300K bulb too, it is right in the P1 pdf in the specifications section for anybody that wants to take the time to look, that is what I just did to get your answer.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## NAW (Mar 19, 2007)

Thanks,

I was just wondering because looking at the SuperLights III I was comparing my V.2 Rayzorlite with the original Polarion & noticed they have allegedly the same Kelvin temp. But when I looked at the pics, it seemed the Polarion has a warmer beam, and the Rayzor has a cooler beam.


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## flashfan (Mar 19, 2007)

So if my understanding from previous posts is correct, the Helios is more spot, while the Beast is more flood. Will either of these companies be offering "accessory" reflectors/heads so that you can have the best of both worlds with one light?


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## mtbkndad (Mar 19, 2007)

NAW said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I was just wondering because looking at the SuperLights III I was comparing my V.2 Rayzorlite with the original Polarion & noticed they have allegedly the same Kelvin temp. But when I looked at the pics, it seemed the Polarion has a warmer beam, and the Rayzor has a cooler beam.



What you noticed may be correct even with both bulbs having the same rating. I have noticed slight differences with different bulbs of the same K rating even from the same manufacturer and even with "good" manufacturers. I believe the superlight 3 was done with the cameras set to daylight.

I personally prefer leaving the white balance on auto on my camera. At the get together I was able to show people that when they see a 6000K beam looking real blue in my photos, it REALLY does look that blue in person. That is also true with the 4200K looking green.

The reason I mention this is that I believe with two bulbs both 4300K. If one is slightly yellower and one is slightly greener and a camera on daylight white balance. The yellower beam will look warmer and the greener beam will look cooler. I never thought the color of the beams in the Superlight shootouts was very accurately represented. That is just my personal opinion.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## mtbkndad (Mar 19, 2007)

flashfan said:


> So if my understanding from previous posts is correct, the Helios is more spot, while the Beast is more flood. Will either of these companies be offering "accessory" reflectors/heads so that you can have the best of both worlds with one light?



Polarion makes a diffusing filter for the Helios and X1. I have one on order and when I get it I will do beam shots of the difference. I really don't need it but thought it would be good to have and take photos of when I do a review of my X1. I personally think it would be much easier for a light like a Helios or X1 to be given more flood effectively with a filter then trying to make something that would give a beast more throw.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## NAW (Mar 19, 2007)

Mtbkandad,

Thanks. I think I get what you're saying.



flashfan,

I doubt Surefire will be coming out with an SMO reflector for there Beast II. Surefire prefers textured reflectors which cut down on throw & brightness.


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## seery (Jun 18, 2007)

Anyone up on the current release date for the Surefire Beast II?


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## Cigarman (Jun 18, 2007)

I notice not many people here seem to comment on the Xenonics NightHunter. For the power level of the lamp, doesn't it compete with these other uberlights? And for $2700 or so, seems a bargain over the much more expensive Beast for a lot more cash. Anyone done any reviews on it? I can't seem to locate anything but perhaps Im looking in the wrong place.


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## NAW (Jun 18, 2007)

The Xenonics NightHunters (theres two versions) are shot xenon arcs. They put out very little lumens but are able to focus like a laser and throw very far. True High Intensity Discharge lights like XeRay, Beast, Polarion, etc put out alot of lumens but can't throw as far as short arcs.

If you look at these beamshots of a BarnBurner (HID) vs a Maxabeam (short arc) you can see the difference

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1985129&postcount=1

There are two reviews of the NightHunter.

http://home.earthlink.net/~kenshiro2/ Click on "Superlights 1" and you should see the reviews.


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## BVH (Jun 23, 2013)

That's a ton of money for a very low performance HID light by today's standards. In my opinion, even if your interest is mainly for collecting purposes - to have one of a few lights, it's still a huge chunk of change for what it is. Contrary to what the ad says, it's not Surefires most powerful light ever produced for civilian use. Civilians can easily buy their Hellfighter any day of the week on Ebay. Moving on to what it takes to power the light - a ton of expensive 123 primary batteries makes is even less desirable, IMHO.

I'm not convinced that light is an "original". I don't remember the originals having the circular array of LEDs as is pictured. There's a Beast II on Ebay for $4,200. Geeze!


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## Rat (Jun 25, 2013)

BVH said:


> That's a ton of money for a very low performance HID light by today's standards. In my opinion, even if your interest is mainly for collecting purposes - to have one of a few lights, it's still a huge chunk of change for what it is. Contrary to what the ad says, it's not Surefires most powerful light ever produced for civilian use. Civilians can easily buy their Hellfighter any day of the week on Ebay. Moving on to what it takes to power the light - a ton of expensive 123 primary batteries makes is even less desirable, IMHO.
> 
> I'm not convinced that light is an "original". I don't remember the originals having the circular array of LEDs as is pictured. There's a Beast II on Ebay for $4,200. Geeze!




Anybody got a link as I cannot find them. Even if they are sold I would still like to see them :thumbsup:

$4200.00 tell him he's dreaming :devil: # Found this one and it was not even the rechargeable version.

:wave:

EDIT: This thread needs a pic.
This is the best hunk of alloy I own just love it.


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## Blackbird13 (Jul 9, 2013)

If u can look at a 2008 or earlier catalogs on the 08 catalog you'll see the pic of there hid on page 9 top right IMG.# 3 ,it sure looks the same.

In response to if the beast's hid lamp came with a halo of led's just look at a 2008 catalog page 9 top right 3rd IMG

Hello , how are y'all . I've never belonged to a forum before , so ill start with a few questions followed up by a couple requests. I'm curious if any one knows exactly how many diff. Models of the beast were ever produced, how many of each model were made .Also if each model was a limited run how we're they numbered, how can u tell which year a certain beast was made.Thanks it great to see so many others with such an interest in lights


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## PocketRocket (Jul 10, 2013)

*Poof*


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## Norm (Jul 10, 2013)

Joeb19 said:


> There is a Surefire Beast on eBay for $900 withe a buy now price of $2,000. Is that a good deal?



Looks like this may have been the seller, one post and he hasn't logged in since. The post is now deleted.

Norm


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## Blackbird13 (Jul 10, 2013)

What about the beast 2 how many of those were produced, seems like I heard 1000


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## Blackbird13 (Jul 10, 2013)

The beast


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## Blackbird13 (Jul 11, 2013)

Hi my surefire collecting friends I am pretty new at this , and I'm trying to find some info on some the beast II . I was wanting to see who knows of any beast II serial numbers , the lowest y'all have seen and the highest . Here's number A0001 maybe I should start a new thread with registry on it


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## Jumpmaster (Jul 12, 2013)

If you want to post pics, you'll need to upload them somewhere else (photobucket, floor, etc.) and post links to them here.


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## Norm (Jul 12, 2013)

Blackbird13 said:


> . I can't wait to post some of my pics , *I think I'm too new to post pics yet* I'm not sure. Any info would be awesome


There is no such thing as "too new to post pics", your very first post can contain pics"

Norm


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## Blackbird13 (Jul 13, 2013)

I was not sure i thought there was limitations on new members thanks for the help ,from you Norm as well as the rest of the cpf members . It's nice to get so much help and some cool knowledge .


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## Blackbird13 (Aug 26, 2013)

I finally got some pics ready


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## Rat (Sep 28, 2013)

Took this picture the other day of my big boys three of them being BEAST'S






:wave:


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## Blackbird13 (Sep 28, 2013)

Rat said:


> Took this picture the other day of my big boys three of them being BEAST'S
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow rat what a show, that prototype really is so much larger than the others. Is it brighter than the other beasts I pm you about something else I had a question about


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## jamesmtl514 (Sep 29, 2013)

What a lineup! 


WTB: anything, and everything SUREFIRE


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## Blackbird13 (Sep 29, 2013)

What is the other non sf light in the pic with all those beasts


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## Echo63 (Sep 30, 2013)

Blackbird13 said:


> What is the other non sf light in the pic with all those beasts


Megaray 
a 12ish mcp XSA thrower


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## Blackbird13 (Sep 30, 2013)

Can they still be purchased new


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## BVH (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes, somewhere around $8K to 10K IIRC. A South Africa product. Can find them on Ebay once in a while.


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## grandchamp87 (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm a huge fan of Surefire, I wish there were beasts selling for the price of a used hell fighter. You can get those for 500 dollars, which is a steal! Does anyone know why Surefire doesn't make colored lenses for these types of light? I can't seem to find an answer anywhere.


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## HIDSGT (Oct 19, 2013)

surefire just doesnt get it with those big toilet plungers! ugliest light ive ever seen! the new Annihilator looks like a nice piece but it will cost $1800 and produce far less lumens then numerous LED's out today for probably $1500 less. lame!


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## Blackbird13 (Oct 19, 2013)

grandchamp87 said:


> I'm a huge fan of Surefire, I wish there were beasts selling for the price of a used hell fighter. You can get those for 500 dollars, which is a steal! Does anyone know why Surefire doesn't make colored lenses for these types of light? I can't seem to find an answer anywhere.


I wish the same thing, also I believe the price is higher because they made far less beast than they did hellfighters


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## Hightower (Oct 19, 2020)

Hello everybody,
today I bought a Surefirer Beast 2:
I tried the battery handle and it works fine (besides that the HID looks greenish to me)

I'm not sure about the rechargeable handle.It doesn't work. When I put it into the case to charge the LED indicator isn't showing anything. The charger seems to be okay, I measured app. 16 V. Any Ideas? 


BR

Michael


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## WarriorOfLight (Oct 20, 2020)

Hightower said:


> I'm not sure about the rechargeable handle.It doesn't work. When I put it into the case to charge the LED indicator isn't showing anything. The charger seems to be okay, I measured app. 16 V. Any Ideas?


You should be able to disassemble the battery pack. Since the light is quite old my guess is the cells are dead.
You need to find out what cell size was used and than replace the cells. I am even unsure if LiIon or NiCd was used in the rechargeable pack.
It should be possible to open the pack without damage. At least it is no problem on other older Surefires.


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## Hightower (Oct 21, 2020)

Thank you. The manual is saying LiOn. Anyone an idea how to open the battery handle?

BR


Michael


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## Hightower (Oct 21, 2020)

I have put the handle in hot water and was able to remove the rubber endcap. Through the tiny hole it looks like a wrapped battery pack inside. It looks like it is screwed and secured with some kind of glue. I will try heat and a strap wrench (first I have to get one).


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## Hightower (Nov 15, 2020)

I could not open the handle. What I did is to charge the rechargable handle like 20 h and this morning the green LED was on :thumbsup:
The runtime was very low but I will try to discharge/charge a couple of times.


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