# Whats special about Nichia?



## CodyCash (Jan 25, 2015)

I keep seeing this emitter in small lights and the numbers or output never seem impressing to me. Im learning the flashlight scene and thought Id just ask. Whats up with this emitter?


----------



## Fresh Light (Jan 25, 2015)

Nichia is available with higher color rendition index numbers than other emitters. That means colors more true to life as they do in sunlight and incandescent light. I personally don't own any light with them, but, I have some high cri crees and they are quite nice. In my experience what you can discern is many times as important as how much light it puts out.


----------



## Str8stroke (Jan 25, 2015)

Great question. First thing to know, is Nichia makes tons of different type leds. The most popular one I think you speak of is something like the 219B. It has a high Color Rendering Index (CRI). 
LEDs like the 219B make objects colors more "true". If you have a angry blue led light with 2000 lumen, everything looks black and white. 

Some of us are more concerned with the Tint of the light output, not so much the amount. My example is that I only need about 10 lumen at night for most tasks, and 250 or so for heavier duty use. For me, at a certain point mega lumens are only for show and tell. Personally have few uses for a light that puts out past 1000 lumen. No don't misunderstand me, I like me a flame thrower to play with!!

Another example is if you are a mechanic working on a car under a dark dash, it may be important, before you cut a wire in a harness, to know the wires true color or colors! 

You may hear some folks referred to as Tint snobs. lol Finally, don't be buffaloed by some light manufactures Lumen output claims. 

Get the gist?


----------



## CodyCash (Jan 25, 2015)

OK awesome. Thats exactly what I was looking to find out. I didn't want to write off an emitter just because of unimpressive numbers, now knowing that they offer a better tint or contrast I'll have to look further into them and maybe try it out. Thanks


----------



## ForrestChump (Jan 25, 2015)

CodyCash said:


> OK awesome. Thats exactly what I was looking to find out. I didn't want to write off an emitter just because of unimpressive numbers, now knowing that they offer a better tint or contrast I'll have to look further into them and maybe try it out. Thanks



http://www.thorshammercustomleather.com/apps/webstore/products/show/5134102


----------



## StorminMatt (Jan 26, 2015)

Also keep in mind that, although the Nichia sports a high CRI, there may be other emitters that you might like better (perhaps despite a lower CRI). For example, you might like the warm, incandescent tint of the high CRI XM-L2. Cree is also offering a number of warm/neutral high CRI XP-L emitters you might like. And the Phillips Luxeon daylight emitter (used in the SC52d and SC62d) produces about the most neutral, cast-free white available with a decently high 85 CRI. All of these emitters are high CRI (albeit maybe not as high as the Nichia 219B). But they all have something different to offer. And the high CRI XM-L2 and XP-L will certainly be more satisfying than the Nichia 219B when it comes to lumens.


----------



## StorminMatt (Jan 26, 2015)

Another thing to remember is that sometimes, even different non high CRI emitters can produce better output than a typical cool XM-L2. As an example, a neutral XM-L2 T6 is not high CRI (it's around 75 CRI). But it produces a considerably more pleasing output than a typical cool XM-L2 U2 (about 65 CRI) with only a small decrease in brightness. In fact, you would probably not notice it. Many people would probably be more satisfied with the XM-L2 T6 than, say, a Nichia 219 due to its good combination of decent tint and high output.


----------



## LED Boatguy (Feb 8, 2015)

StorminMatt said:


> Also keep in mind that, although the Nichia sports a high CRI, there may be other emitters that you might like better (perhaps despite a lower CRI). For example, you might like the warm, incandescent tint of the high CRI XM-L2. Cree is also offering a number of warm/neutral high CRI XP-L emitters you might like. And the high CRI XM-L2 and XP-L will certainly be more satisfying than the Nichia 219B when it comes to lumens.



Right now, the high CRI XM-L2s seem to be vaporware. Has anyone seem them in stock somewhere? Anywhere? Even the 7 series tints (warm white) of any CRI are out of stock about everywhere.


----------



## Anders Hoveland (Feb 8, 2015)

Nichia _was_ special, maybe 4 years ago. 
The latest Osram chips— 96 CRI "typical", available in 3000-5000K.

LED Engin even claims 97 CRI (and it's not even a violet emitter), but only available in 3000K currently.


----------



## recDNA (Feb 8, 2015)

Anders Hoveland said:


> Nichia _was_ special, maybe 4 years ago.
> The latest Osram chips— 96 CRI "typical", available in 3000-5000K.
> 
> LED Engin even claims 97 CRI (and it's not even a violet emitter), but only available in 3000K currently.


Is there a flashlight available with the led's you speak of?


----------



## neutralwhite (Feb 8, 2015)

Interesting that 96!.

m


recDNA said:


> Is there a flashlight available with the led's you speak of?


----------



## Chicken Drumstick (Feb 8, 2015)

If you like Nichia's then take a look at the XP-G2 R5 5A2. Very very similar looking to the 219B. You really need them side by side and it's quite subtle. Nichia is meant to be higher CRI. But you have to have a seriously good eye to tell apart. I think I prefer the XP-G2 if truth be told. Plus you get higher output and more throw too.


----------



## Chicken Drumstick (Feb 8, 2015)

Here is a pic of the Nichia 219b 220 and Cree XP-G2 R5 5A2. Guess which is which.


----------



## recDNA (Feb 8, 2015)

From the greener grass I'd guess the nichia is on the left.


----------



## DIWdiver (Feb 8, 2015)

Funny, to me the grass looks greener on the right side.

This isn't really a good shot for comparisons. It's hard to tell which is brighter, which is tighter, or which has higher CRI. Maybe that's the point?


----------



## thedoc007 (Feb 9, 2015)

recDNA said:


> From the greener grass I'd guess the nichia is on the left.





DIWdiver said:


> Funny, to me the grass looks greener on the right side.



The grass is always greener on the other side?

I think that was the point...if the difference isn't obvious, and XP-G2 does more lumens/lux, why go with the Nichia? You do take a pretty massive hit in efficiency for that color rendition. I do have one Nichia light, and I like it for certain things, but it is a bit more of a specialty LED, in my opinion. I definitely would not want most of my LEDs to be converted to Nichia, even if it was always an option.


----------



## night.hoodie (Feb 9, 2015)

I don't mean to sound like a moronic bigot, or get bashed for bashing US workmanship, which once upon a time was better than anything anywhere, and for a long time. Something has happened in the US, in a lot of places (but not everywhere) to the detriment of many US products that were formerly unmatched. 

Cree is an American company, and I imagine the workers at Cree are pretty proud of their product, and it appears marketing has not overtaken the company and cut the internal costs of everything ruining the product to save a buck. Osram is a German company, and historically Germans make some great stuff, but sometimes at much greater cost than other inferior products from other companies in other countries. 

Nichia is a Japanese company. Japan has some really great things going for them... like the Chinese, they are able to quickly assimilate currently available high-technology from other parts of the globe and effectively match it, and do it for less cost than the similar product from another country, due to the competing cost of labor in other countries. They also have a built-in cultural work ethic that is only seen in the best of companies anywhere... but seems like its almost everywhere in Japanese companies (and I think there's also some cultural problems there, but it doesn't affect their products, but only their internal social struggles). 

Once upon a time, "Japanese" was synonymous with "cheap." That isn't true anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. Once upon a time, for instance, the best optics in the world came from Germany. The optics coming from Germany have not degraded one bit... but the prices haven't gone down either. For some time now, Japanese optics are probably just as good, and definitely less expensive, than German optics. Optics is just one example. The automotive industry is another. I'm not going to say that Japanese cars are better than American or German cars, but for some time they have been just as good, and a lot less expensive to (at least) American consumers (depending on your tastes). As their brands have grown in recognition, their prices are coming up to match competition. I don't think there are really crazy deals on Japanese cars anymore.

This is all beside the point when we're talking about LEDs. What is needed for LEDs to get better, get great in all applications, always, is good competition. Cree has stepped up, Osram has stepped up, Nichia has stepped up... we need the competition or else Cree will go the way of every US company that has been overtaken by "lazy" American workers (I work here, I've seen them, they **** me off) that feel entitled to get everything for doing nothing. These three companies are probably the best LED makers in the world, and they need each other to keep getting better. I'd be really happy to have lights with LEDs from all of them, and indeed that is my intention. I want everything. Don't you??!


----------



## Chicken Drumstick (Feb 9, 2015)

DIWdiver said:


> Funny, to me the grass looks greener on the right side.
> 
> This isn't really a good shot for comparisons. It's hard to tell which is brighter, which is tighter, or which has higher CRI. Maybe that's the point?


What is a good shot for comparisons?

And yes, that was the point, I wanted to compare the 5A2 and the 219, but they really are very similar, but the Cree puts out more lumens and throw.

I'm quite a Nichia fan, I have two p60 219B's, 2 custom builds I built with the 219B and a couple with the 219A. But this XP-G2 in reality matches and beats them in every important area.

I'll certainly try and get some more comparisons between the two. But to help highlight just how similar the 5A2 and 219B are, take a look at this pic, see the instant difference.






The shot of the 5A2 and 219B isn't fundamentally any different, but they are so similar it's almost impossible to tell them apart.


----------



## The_Driver (Feb 9, 2015)

Concerning the first pic: is the Nichia the one on the right? It seems a bit whiter. The led on the left seems to cast a yellow "hue" on to brown soil and the grass. The problem with the shot is that it is over-exposed. If you reduce the exposure time, you will make comparing them easier.

The special thing about the Nichia 219A and 219B LEDs is not their high cri of around 90, but that they can have a high cri and a neutral color temperature of 4500K at the same time. High-cri LEDs from Cree have only ever been available with warm color-temperatures of 3000K and below. This looks very yellow compared to neutral and cool tinted LEDs (very similar to standard halogen bulbs).

The high-cri XM-L2s have been available for two years now. I have a few lights with these LEDs.

*EDIT:* one should also remember that CRI does not perfetly describe color accuracy. It only measures how well a light source shows pastell tones. Colors like deep red (so called "R9") and deep blue are not included. In contrast to the high-cri LEDs from Cree the Nichia 219s arre also good in showing deep red, deep blue etc.

*EDIT:* Cree also offers neutral XM-L2s with a minimum CRI of 80. Those are supposed to be very nice. To get the high CRI they have to be in the T5-Bin oder below. The ones in T6-BIN and above don't have the higher CRI. These "special" XM-L2 can be had with color temperatures up to around 4200K. You can get them from shops like intl outdoor, Cutter, Mouser, mtn electronics etc.


----------



## twistedraven (Feb 10, 2015)

I find the Nichia quite nice, especially for indoor use, as it has very even tint from hotspot to spill-- something which nearly all other LEDs struggle at, thus 'white-wall bouncers' will enjoy it quite a bit. However, even at neutral 4500-5000k, it still comes off as a bit incandescent like compared to natural sunlight. Compared to daylight (indirect sunlight-- ie bluish), the Nichia is far off the mark. Closest to noon-early afternoon direct sunlight seems to be the Luxeon T with its 5000k CCT, however it does have a slight tint of green that the Nichia lacks (a perfect candidate for a slight magenta filter.) Both of these LEDs are high CRI, but lots of people like the more romantic warmth of the Nichia and how much it emphasizes reds. I prefer the Luxeon T for outdoor use, and the Nichia for indoor use, as the Luxeon T is more like sunlight, and the Nichia is more like an Incandescent that we're all used to, but just better overall.

When LEDs mature enough, a good goal would be to offer lights in 5-5500k CCT with near 100 CRI.

Also, true incandescents that are 100 CRI but with color temperatures of around 2700-3000 are just average for color rendition compared to a neutral-white LED with respectable CRI-- in my view anyways.


----------

