# Zebralight SC700d 21700 XHP70.2 90+CRI



## TCY

ZL has just updated their spreadsheet indicating they are introducing their first 21700 SC series flashlight.


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## Nichia!

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

Awesome

But I don't like XHP 70.2 it's very bad for Hi CRI


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## Nichia!

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

Clicky??? Mechanical Tail switch??!


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## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

I guess it makes sense to also introduce the XHP70.2 into the new format, too. It will be a larger light compared to their other models, and a larger reflector is better with the 70.2.

However, I doubt I will be buying this one. I like Zebralight's small lights, and the SC600 series is already pushing the upper limit of pocketability.


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## markr6

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

93-95 CRI. 5000k. YES!!


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## moozooh

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

Praise be to the Lord! Finally a 21700 offering from ZL! I almost thought they'd never do it.

21700 is really the perfect size for a single-cell light. The battery itself is thinner than SC600's bezel, yet it enables a ~50% increase in capacity (which is sick considering the size) and well enough power to melt your face off if need be. The new light does, however, have a larger bezel, but I believe this is to accommodate the new monstrous XHP70.2 LED rather than serve the needs of housing the battery.

With that said, I'm going to assume they will discontinue the SC600 series in foreseeable future because SC6x still exists and fulfills the need for a compact affordable Li-ion EDC, and when you need significantly more power than it can provide, choosing SC600 over SC700 doesn't seem particularly enticing.

Anyway, this is a must-buy. As somebody who has used the original SC600 and SC600 mk. II L2 extensively (this series has been my go-to light since 2012), I say this is quite the opportune time for an upgrade.

Now if only I could get my hands on a couple of those Tesla 2170 cans, ha... ZL will probably offer repackaged Samsung cells to go with it. At least that seems most likely, because Samsung's are the best option currently available on the open market.


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## Keitho

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

My poor wallet, I think it is about to suffer through some significant weight loss...


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## TCY

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*






Updated 5 minutes ago. Looks like they are really trying to push the pocket rocket limit.


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## moozooh

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

Both improvements entirely justified and long-yearned-for. I guess the company is aiming to catch up to and overtake the market for high-performance custom offerings.

I'm expecting at least some 3500 lm on H1.


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## Nichia!

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

Will it be MADE IN USA this time??


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## Thujone

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

I have been away for a bit, what is the problem with HiCRI 70.2 emitters?


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## marinemaster

Just got a 16650 light for EDC. Not sure if I want to EDC a 21700 light.


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## Mattz68

ZEBRALIGHT, a 4000k “c” model please:wave: After being spoiled by my emisar D1 (xpl 4000) -anything cooler just doesn’t cut the mustard!


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## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*



moozooh said:


> With that said, I'm going to assume they will discontinue the SC600 series in foreseeable future because SC6x still exists and fulfills the need for a compact affordable Li-ion EDC, and when you need significantly more power than it can provide, choosing SC600 over SC700 doesn't seem particularly enticing.



It is if you want to pocket-carry. Look at the size difference.

The SC600 is 1.2" wide and 3.8" long.
The SC700 will be 1.5" wide and 4.2" long.

That's a 10% increase in length, and a 25% increase is diameter! I don't think that's a pocketable light anymore, except in a jacket with large pockets.

Yes, the SC64 is the more pocketable series of their 18650 lights, but it's not really appropriate for a XHP35 HI emitter or the XHP50.2 that is in the SC600. And, not everyone will be moving from 18650 to the 21700 cells.


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## iamlucky13

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

I'd be more intrigued by this showing up on the spreadsheet were it not for the fact that both the C3 and the Eco series have been on the spreadsheet for a year or so.



Thujone said:


> I have been away for a bit, what is the problem with HiCRI 70.2 emitters?



Output and efficacy on the 70.2 are great, but it has major tint shift in the beam (aka, the "Cree rainbow"), at least with some reflectors. It's discussed in this review, for example:
_*link removed_

Measurements on that light showed a variation from roughly 5700K to 4300K in different parts of the beam.


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## Climb14er

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

Good move ZL... new format! Use my 1st gen SC600 all around the house and SC52 and SC62 for EDC. The larger 21700 will be great for both home and traveling.


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## Jose Marin

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*



Nichia! said:


> Will it be MADE IN USA this time??



BIG +1 i talked to an employee a couple of years ago and he mentioned they were going to be making more parts in texas, would be amazing if they could be a made in usa company


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## twistedraven

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*

xhpXX.2 emitters have very awful tint shift throughout the beam when domed. Too bad Zebralight won't dedome them. Would rather get a quad optics with Nichias or Samsung LH351Ds being driven from a 21700.


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## Nichia!

Zebralight I highly suggest you give us a nice Quad with nichia 219b or C the instead of the XHP 70.2


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## justanotherguy

almost pulled the trigger yesterday on a Rofis 21700 light.... But a ZL?
Can't wait!


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## Connor

Since ZL is known not to go overboard with lumens/heat .. what's the best 21700 to use in this light? Assuming 20A or less current.


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## moozooh

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> That's a 10% increase in length, and a 25% increase is diameter! I don't think that's a pocketable light anymore, except in a jacket with large pockets.


Which, incidentally, is the only pocket I ever put my EDC SC600 in. It's too bulky for almost any of my pants, anyway, and I don't use it often enough to keep there. I carry it in a jacket, backpack, or a Jack Wolfskin purse with my 8" tablet. The extra 8 mm of girth won't affect any of those significantly, as far as I can tell (although it'll be a snug fit at the bottom of the purse).

That said, this is a pretty large reflector ZL is planning for this light—the largest they've ever made for a single LED.



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> And, not everyone will be moving from 18650 to the 21700 cells.


"Moving" makes it sound more dramatic than it is. For instance, I'm going to buy a couple for this light alone (to be fair, one would be enough, but charging is going to take a while) and keep the rest of my 18650s for devices that use them. I don't really keep a bucket of spares and don't advise it to anyone considering Li-ion cells become better and cheaper every couple years.



iamlucky13 said:


> I'd be more intrigued by this showing up on the spreadsheet were it not for the fact that both the C3 and the Eco series have been on the spreadsheet for a year or so.


But neither of those ever had a release date or body dimensions on the spreadsheet, and this one does.


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## markr6

I've been wanting ZL to make a larger cell light, but now that they might, I kinda wish they kept it 18650 since the SC600w Plus I just got was nasty tint. Either way, I'm still excited for this one!


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## twistedraven

I wouldn't be excited. XHP70.2 makes for rainbow beams when paired with any kind of reflector that doesn't have a frosted lens over it. Maybe they will put a frosted lens over this one, but the combination of an xhp70 sized LED in such a small light plus frosted lens will make for something that might as well be a mule.

21700 also will probably make it not jeans pocketable in my eyes. I adore and use my SC600 MK3 HI so much because it's very powerful and flexible while still easily fitting in my pocket for every day cary. A 21700 host will ruin that niche and turn it into a jacket carry/purpose light, and at that point I have something like a ROT66 at hand.

All of this is just me projecting my hypothesis though, won't know for sure until it comes out.


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## marinemaster

Can a 21700 battery be charger in a 18650 charger ?


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## kj2

marinemaster said:


> Can a 21700 battery be charger in a 18650 charger ?


If that charger supports 21700 batteries, then yes.
Depends on the charger you have.


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## WalkIntoTheLight

marinemaster said:


> Can a 21700 battery be charger in a 18650 charger ?



It depends on the charger. Most multi-slot chargers I've seen don't have a enough room to fit a 70mm long cell. Or at the very least, it will be a very tight fit. So, you'll probably have to buy a new charger too.


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## markr6

21700 no problem in the Opus 3100 I'll be using. All/most Xtar too.

https://www.imrbatteries.com/blog/chargers-which-fit-20700-21700-cells/


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## holygeez03

Why not stick with XHP50.2 and have an SC600 IV Plus with a beam that is a better balance of throw/flood (with significantly better runtime and heat management as well)?


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## shdeu

Zebralight is wrong to marry itself entirely to CREE chips imo.
There are many emitters that make more sense for this form factor. And that was the case with SC600W IV, as well.


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## WalkIntoTheLight

holygeez03 said:


> Why not stick with XHP50.2 and have an SC600 IV Plus with a beam that is a better balance of throw/flood (with significantly better runtime and heat management as well)?



Well, we don't know yet what the beam profile will be like. With a larger reflector, but larger emitter, it could be more or less floody than the 600w Plus. IMO, I wouldn't want it more floody, as the Plus is already a big flooder.

As for heat management, it will probably be similar to the Plus. That is, not great. It will be brighter, but it also has more mass to absorb the extra heat.

The 700 is obviously aimed more as a utility light, rather than an EDC which Zebralight has mainly concentrated on. They might find it a more crowded market if they go to a larger format.


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## 18650

Maybe now they'll return to having a 'd' model for the SC60 series now that there will be more differentiation between it and the 700d. Just use the 5000K Nichia 144 already! The high CRI Crees are disgusting...


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## moozooh

They're most likely sticking to Cree's offerings because they have the best lumen/watt ratios by far, especially among high-CRI LEDs. For a company that prides itself on extreme efficiency (in all aspects, not just electrical) this is an obvious way to go, so I wouldn't count on them using any other LEDs until they become more efficient than Cree's (not very likely).


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## dmsoule

The description mentions “Direct Thermal Sink”. Don’t all Zebralights, as well as every other high quality flashlight brand, feature this? I’m curious how this model will differ in this regard.


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## noboneshotdog

They will likely make a XHP35 HI version a few months after the XHP70.2 is released. THEN I will be interested. It may become ZL's first thrower!


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## TCY

moozooh said:


> They're most likely sticking to Cree's offerings because they have the best lumen/watt ratios by far, especially among high-CRI LEDs. For a company that prides itself on extreme efficiency (in all aspects, not just electrical) this is an obvious way to go, so I wouldn't count on them using any other LEDs until they become more efficient than Cree's (not very likely).



ZL has responded to this years ago saying that 1. Crees tint deviations are generally closer to the BBL than Nichias on paper(although we all know Nichias look better in real life since they go below the BBL line instead of above like the Crees do), 2. They found it to be hard to source good Nichias in huge batches and last but not least, they want only 1 LED in their light so they can utilise their on board TID to the max and fine tune each unit to have accurate thermal control.


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## twistedraven

A lot of Nichias are very close to the BBL, only the R9080 variants (their highest CRI rated LEDs with highest R9 value) are guaranteed to be rosy.

I think it's because they can tout the easywhite binning and output of the Cree LEDs. I'm sure Nichias are harder to source as well.


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## NPL

Comparing apples to apples, a Panasonic 18650 cell is about 3500mah, and the equivalent 21700 cell is 4200mah. 

Personally, although overall performance to weight and size might be better, not interested in adopting a new battery format for only 20% more capacity. 

I am always excited for new Zebralight products, and hope they continue to make the most compact and well designed lights, but if capacity increase is what they are after, would much prefer jumping to a 26650 format where mAh increase is closer to double (70% actually).

On the topic of lumens, I hope Zebralight takes a step back from unsustainable turbo levels and designs the light around useful outputs that can be sustained over extended periods of time. My H600fc mk4 on the highest setting overheats and steps down way too quickly to be of any real use in a backcountry situation. If I want a show off light, I'll buy an Emisar D4 and call it a day.

The Cree vs Nichias battle is a tough one. I have become a tint snob over the years and now even a Nichias 219c looks too yellow for me next to an e21a. My H53c is starting to look more and more unbearable as it makes the 219c look amazing by comparison. With the lumen war aside, I think Zebralight needs to select the right emiter for the light, and hopefully that means possibly considering other LED manufacturers especially for their high CRI offering.


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## moshow9

NPL, Acebeam has a 21700 battery @ 5100mAh (with 20A discharge capability). I would think Zebralight could source their own cell. This is very comparable, and in a smaller form factor, to a 26650. I'm all for the 21700 format myself. It will be interesting to see this light once it is released.


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## twistedraven

21700 form factor has the highest energy density per volume compared to both 18650 and 26650. It also seems to be the one that companies will researching going forward. It is the cell of choice for Tesla's new battery packs.

21700 gets very close to 26650 capacity and discharge capability while being closer in size to an 18650. I definitely think it's the most ideal cell, but hosts using it will probably be too large for edc in jeans/pants pockets.

I definitely want to have some kind of light sporting 5000k R9080 e21a.


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## NPL

moshow9 said:


> NPL, Acebeam has a 21700 battery @ 5100mAh (with 20A discharge capability). I would think Zebralight could source their own cell. This is very comparable, and in a smaller form factor, to a 26650. I'm all for the 21700 format myself. It will be interesting to see this light once it is released.


That capacity is very impressive, although I have to ask if it has been tested. The best 26650 cells are topping out at 6000mah in tests and cells that claim more usually test significantly lower. If a 21700 battery opens up new opportunities for technological advancements in cells that can't be applied to the 18650 format, then I suppose I would have to reconsider. 

With technology evolution usually translating to better battery capacity, more efficient drivers and better LEDs, the one factor that hopefully remains constant is the total size of the flashlight. I would personally prefer to keep the lights as compact as possible and let other technological advancements give me better runtimes, more lumens, throw, etc. as oppose to jumping to a larger battery size. All a matter of personal opinion though.


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## MikeSalt

I've not had a problem with tint in the Hi-CRI Cree emitters of both my SC52d and H604c. I know it is a lottery, so your mileage may vary. As long as 21700s will fit in my Pila charger, I may consider this latest offering.


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## markr6

On several occasions ZL mentioned no Nichia due to "sourcing issues". I'm not sure if that simply means the price isn't right for them, or some other logistical reason. But with all the other manufacturers and even "basement" manufacturers using them, I can't image it would have to do with availability.


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## insanefred

markr6 said:


> On several occasions ZL mentioned no Nichia due to "sourcing issues". I'm not sure if that simply means the price isn't right for them, or some other logistical reason. But with all the other manufacturers and even "basement" manufacturers using them, I can't image it would have to do with availability.




What if Zebralight is in that gray area? Too small to order thousands like bigger companies that can, but too big to order just a few.Iamthinkingthiscouldbethesititionforalotofflashlightmakers.


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## markr6

insanefred said:


> What if Zebralight is in that gray area? Too small to order thousands like bigger companies that can, but too big to order just a few.Iamthinkingthiscouldbethesititionforalotofflashlightmakers.



I don't know for sure, but I think they come on rolls of 100 or 500, something like that. Either way, that would seem suitable.


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## Bob_McBob

Nichia generally requires full reel orders, so I can at least appreciate why Zebralight might not want to buy 1500 144As for what could potentially be a niche offering. However, the Samsung LH351D is extremely efficient and readily available inexpensively in practically any quantity. It would be a huge improvement over the ugly Cree used in the SC64c. I fully expect yet another generation of Cree lights that are impossible to emitter swap though. High CRI doesn't mean much to me if the light is puke green or pissy yellow.


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## markr6

Bob_McBob said:


> High CRI doesn't mean much to me if the light is puke green or pissy yellow.



Good point. Even after all these years, I often see "95 CRI" on paper and figure it's a sure thing. When I get the light, I'm sometimes disappointed by a yellowish cast...no better than a basic 80CRI IMO. You can tell the CRI is a little better, but usually overcome by the ugly tint so it doesn't really matter.

I hope this new Zebralight is different, but more likely a gamble.


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## iamlucky13

TCY said:


> ZL has responded to this years ago saying that 1. Crees tint deviations are generally closer to the BBL than Nichias on paper(although we all know Nichias look better in real life since they go below the BBL line instead of above like the Crees do),



This is a topic Zebralight might find worthwhile to revisit, given the results of Maukka's test of an SC64c showing the tint across the entire beam profile was _outside_ the claimed 2-step quadrangle.



insanefred said:


> What if Zebralight is in that gray area? Too small to order thousands like bigger companies that can, but too big to order just a few.Iamthinkingthiscouldbethesititionforalotofflashlightmakers.



For what it's worth, Armytek also said they had trouble sourcing Nichia 144's for a special edition Wizard, although the last word is they ultimately did find some.

I don't know what volume Zebralight sells, but given their popularity, I tend to assume most or all of their models sell a few thousand copies per year, which depending on the manufacturer and model, I think should mean several reels worth.

Digikey says they offer non-stocked bins of XP-L2's in full reel minimum quantities of 500. Nichia says the 144A comes in reels of 1500, and the 219C in reels of 3500.

What does Nichia or anyone else offer that's roughly comparable to an XHP70?


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## TCY

I sense MKV lights...


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## 18650

MikeSalt said:


> I've not had a problem with tint in the Hi-CRI Cree emitters of both my SC52d and H604c. I know it is a lottery, so your mileage may vary. As long as 21700s will fit in my Pila charger, I may consider this latest offering.


 The SC52d is actually a Luxeon emitter.


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## moozooh

After thinking about it some more, I've come to a conclusion that it most likely won't be a >3000lm light. The reason is that the 90+ CRI versions of the 5000K XHP70.2 start at the brightness bin M4, and based on what I read in Cree's datasheets and the PCT, it can only squeeze out 3000-ish lm when pushed to the very limit of its spec (which is 29W), and only for a short time before thermal resistance (and/or PID on the light's side) effects kick in. So expect a 2800–3000lm figure as H1 peak brightness.

The more interesting question is what brightness it will stabilize at when it reaches the temperature target. Starting with mk. II, the SC600 series typically stabilized at around 6W fed to the LED (I believe the temperature target has been around 50°C/120°F all along). The dimensions of the light and its surface area haven't really changed since then, so this should still hold true for every subsequent SC600. The H2 runtimes on mk. IV Plus indirectly confirm that. Now the SC700 is a whole another beast with what I expect to be ~1/3 larger surface area and mass, both of which help with dissipation proportionately, so it could potentially stabilize at 8–9W, meaning you'd see as much as 1100–1200lm on H1/H2A sustained (at least in favorable conditions) until it runs out of juice, which is in about two hours for a 18.5 Wh battery. Considering one of my most common usage scenarios for the SC600 is a bike lamp, where sustained usage numbers are more important than the peak, this is definitely potentially good news for me. But do note that it's just ballpark estimates based on cross-referencing whatever information is available, not even napkin math level, so take all of it with a grain of salt.

I have also sent a few questions regarding the UI and the battery to the sales dept, will post here when they respond.




18650 said:


> The SC52d is actually a Luxeon emitter.


...And the other one is a mule, whereas the problems only arise with reflectors. So naturally there should be no problems with either.


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## NPL

1000+ sustained lumens of 90 CRI light with good tint and I think they are onto something!


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## MikeSalt

18650 said:


> The SC52d is actually a Luxeon emitter.



Good spot, I'd forgotten about that. I do like the tint of the 604c, but being a mule, I cannot vouch for its tint shift.


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## markr6

NPL said:


> 1000+ sustained lumens of 90 CRI light with good tint and I think they are onto something!



I like it! I am pretty much over the "showoff" modes on lights these days. The 'good tint' part...makes me nervous.


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## Keitho

moozooh said:


> ...it could potentially stabilize at 8–9W, meaning you'd see as much as 1100–1200lm on H1/H2A sustained (at least in favorable conditions) until it runs out of juice, which is in about two hours for a 18.5 Wh battery. Considering one of my most common usage scenarios for the SC600 is a bike lamp



Exactly why I'm excited about it (very thoughtful and useful post, moozooh). It will be a horse race between my new Fireflies ROT66 3x18650 and a much smaller/lighter SC700 for a high CRI handlebar light. Here's hoping that ZL updates the UI to include a bike flashing mode rather than just a disco strobe. I might even be able to convince my wife to switch to a nice high-CRI light on her handlebar, if I program the ZL to be a "1 mode" light for her and show her that it can last a couple hours. 

Boy am I glad the days are getting shorter--more time to play with a nice crop of high CRI goodness!


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## twistedraven

R9080 Nichias will eat the high CRI Cree alive. 

Except for luminous efficacy at lower currents though, XHP70.2 is a beast at that.


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## majid

*Re: Zebralight new 21700 flashlight*




Jose Marin said:


> BIG +1 i talked to an employee a couple of years ago and he mentioned they were going to be making more parts in texas, would be amazing if they could be a made in usa company


With the Trump tariffs, they may have no choice. I don't think a 21700 will replace the SC600 series, the 18650 battery is too entrenched (flashlight enthusiasts, Tesla, laptop batteries, USB battery packs, vapes), probably second in popularity only to AA/AAA (and I suspect ahead of 9V batteries) as a form factor.


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## majid

Connor said:


> Since ZL is known not to go overboard with lumens/heat .. what's the best 21700 to use in this light? Assuming 20A or less current.



I take it you have never held a SC600FcIV+ then. At the 2000lm turbo setting it gets uncomfortably hot within 30 seconds.


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## Connor

majid said:


> I take it you have never held a SC600FcIV+ then. At the 2000lm turbo setting it gets uncomfortably hot within 30 seconds.



Yes, I have a SC600Fd IV Plus - it's probably my favourite flashlight. 
I take it you never held an Emisar D4 or D4s, then?  Because that's what I would call going overboard in the lumen/heat department. ZL is rather tame and well managed in comparison.


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## markr6

Connor said:


> I take it you never held an Emisar D4 or D4s, then?  Because that's what I would call going overboard in the lumen/heat department. ZL is rather tame and well managed in comparison.



I was going to say the exact same thing! ZL pushes it a bit, but not what I would call overboard.


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## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> I was going to say the exact same thing! ZL pushes it a bit, but not what I would call overboard.



I think the Plus is the only light ZL produces that pushes it at all. I suspect they must be overdriving the 50.2 a little bit to obtain 2300 lumens, but not by much. I don't think they overdrive any of their other lights.


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## twistedraven

50.2 can push upwards of 4-5k lumens, so I doubt even that, though the 80 CRI one Zebralight is using probably loses 10-15% output.

All Zebralight hosts are tiny with little mass and surface area, so even underdriven emitters will heat them up rather fast. They can only handle a couple watts of continuous power.


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## justanotherguy

Trump tariffs... Chuckle. Wrong forum


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## ro.ma.

markr6 said:


> 21700 no problem in the Opus 3100 I'll be using. All/most Xtar too.
> 
> https://www.imrbatteries.com/blog/chargers-which-fit-20700-21700-cells/



I'm sorry but I have to tell you that in the Opus 3100 they do not enter. I have the Acebeam 21700 and unfortunately does not enter the Opus 3100.
Is it possible that the new Zebralight is rechargeable?


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## insanefred

ro.ma. said:


> I'm sorry but I have to tell you that in the Opus 3100 they do not enter. I have the Acebeam 21700 and unfortunately does not enter the Opus 3100.
> Is it possible that the new Zebralight is rechargeable?




All Zebralights are rechargeable, if you used a rechargeable battery.


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## markr6

ro.ma. said:


> I'm sorry but I have to tell you that in the Opus 3100 they do not enter. I have the Acebeam 21700 and unfortunately does not enter the Opus 3100.



I'm not worried about it. Mine must be more forgiving since I can get a rod 72mm long in each slot with a little wiggle room. It doesn't state that on the box, so I wonder if they just overlooked that at the time.


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## CM2010

Is the battery protected? My unprotected 21700's fit my charger fine.


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## markr6

CM2010 said:


> Is the battery protected? My unprotected 21700's fit my charger fine.



That could have been the issue. I'm guessing this ZL SC700 will only take UNprotected cells since that's the trend with their newer pogo pin setup, but can't say for sure. I'm also thinking ZL will offer a 21700 for sell on their site, since they're not as common yet.


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## ro.ma.

insanefred said:


> All Zebralights are rechargeable, if you used a rechargeable battery.



I have 12 Zebralight and none of them is rechargeable. Maybe you mean the battery or you just wanted to be nice.


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## WalkIntoTheLight

ro.ma. said:


> I have 12 Zebralight and none of them is rechargeable. Maybe you mean the battery or you just wanted to be nice.



I think he was saying that every Zebralight can use a rechargeable battery, so is essentially rechargeable, but you have to use a separate charger. IIRC, even the CR123 SC32 can use a rechargeable RCR123 cell. So, unless I'm mistaken, you don't need to use any single-use battery in a ZL.


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## Zeron1

Anyone got a photo of the light yet? I'd be interested in one because of the high CRI.


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## markr6

Zeron1 said:


> Anyone got a photo of the light yet? I'd be interested in one because of the high CRI.



They have October as the release, but I usually give it an extra 4-6 weeks on actually announcing it officially.


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## Nichia!

No true CRI junky will buy this light! 

Unless you care about the output and not the tint!!

Tint is going to be VERY BAD mark my words..


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## Connor

Perhaps we shouldn't talk so bad about a flashlight that noone here has seen yet ... :thinking:


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## Mr. LED

Agreed. I don’t like this negativity, and nobody is obligated to buy it.


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## Random Dan

Never ceases to amaze me how terrible a ZL can be before it even exists.


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## justanotherguy

Personally, I won't buy it unless it's 4096k ...


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## markr6

Random Dan said:


> Never ceases to amaze me how terrible a ZL can be before it even exists.



Typical Zebralight thread. But that's because they're great lights and always under the microscope.



justanotherguy said:


> Personally, I won't buy it unless it's 4096k ...



A bit warm, but more worried about the tint.


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## twistedraven

We don't have to see the host to know how the emitter we've already seen before will perform. 50.2 and 70.2 Cree LEDs-- no matter their CRI-- when in reflectors, are rainbows.


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## Nichia!

Connor said:


> Perhaps we shouldn't talk so bad about a flashlight that noone here has seen yet ... :thinking:





Mr. LED said:


> Agreed. I don’t like this negativity, and nobody is obligated to buy it.





Random Dan said:


> Never ceases to amaze me how terrible a ZL can be before it even exists.




You don't need to see it to know if this light has a good tint because you already knows what's latest generation of Cree LEDs looks like!!


----------



## Nichia!

twistedraven said:


> We don't have to see the host to know how the emitter we've already seen before will perform. 50.2 and 70.2 Cree LEDs-- no matter their CRI-- when in reflectors, are rainbows.



Exactly. Am not talking about the host am talking about the LED!!!


----------



## roger-roger

I'm over the whole CRI thing already. Give me a puke yellow/green free tint 5000k and up, and I'll jump on it.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

roger-roger said:


> I'm over the whole CRI thing already. Give me a puke yellow/green free tint 5000k and up, and I'll jump on it.



Yes, IMO, high CRI is overrated for most uses. A decent 75 or 80 CRI is enough for 99% of tasks. 90+ CRI is really only needed if you're doing something that requires very accurate color identification. In those cases, you're probably not using a flashlight anyway, and are using a proper lamp setup or natural light.

I think high CRI looks very nice (colors pop more), but high output and efficiency is usually much more important, especially outdoors.


----------



## markr6

roger-roger said:


> I'm over the whole CRI thing already. Give me a puke yellow/green free tint 5000k and up, and I'll jump on it.



I'm totally with you. My SC64w (4500K, no yellow/green, 80CRI) is much nicer than the D4S I have with Nichia 219C (5000K, very slight green, 90CRI). The ONLY time I can notice is when I compare the light on something like a wooden door or piece of furniture - the 90 CRI keeps the "reddish" look of the wood, where the 80 CRI gives more of a drab yellow/green appearance. But you really have to put in effort to compare, and I just don't care that much.


----------



## moozooh

Keitho said:


> Here's hoping that ZL updates the UI to include a bike flashing mode rather than just a disco strobe.


Then keep your fingers crossed that the sales dept people manage to convince the engineer team to move the plans for the next UI generation forward. I shot them an email last week with regards to the fact that slow strobe will certainly be unuseful (and in fact outright dangerous) at ~3000 lm, and this is what I received in response earlier today:
"We have developed a programable UI for the strobe and beacons, meant to be released in the Mk V generations. I'll talk to our management to see if it's possible to release the UI a bit earlier, in the SC700."

This would be very good, because as it is I'm wary of using the slow strobe on my mk. II L2 as a bike flashing flight even in broad daylight, and what about something three times as bright? I don't want to have things thrown at me, let alone cause a traffic accident because a driver was dazzled. 200–300lm is the safe bike flash range for daytime and early twilight; anything higher is counterproductive at best. Being able to set it up somewhere in that range would be perfect.


I also asked a couple more questions, particularly about what battery they'd recommend, and it seems they have an eye on the 4000mAh Samsung 40T for (quoting) the "use in a cold and windy environment" (this isn't final, though), implying it's not as susceptible to thermal voltage sag as the 48T. But since I neither bike nor hike at subzero temps, I probably won't see any benefits for my typical usage scenarios.


----------



## Keitho

Good news about the new UI. If they can find a battery that will protect me from a "windy environment" when I'm on my bike, I'll buy three!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

I've used the SC600w mkIV Plus on my bike all summer. Never had a problem with wind. In fact, I love the wind, because it allows me to use it at 2300 lumens without ramping down (if it's also a cool night).

I have, however, had a problem with my SC600w mkIV HI in the winter, also when it's a bit breezy. H1 will sometimes fail to turn on the light for more than a couple of seconds. Only a problem with H1, only when the light hasn't been used in awhile, and only when it's really cold. I've never been able to reproduce the issue with indoor freezer tests. Tried it with GA cell, 30Q, and VTC6. Not sure if it's the battery, or the electronics, but it doesn't like extreme cold.

I'll have to try the 600w Plus this winter, to see if it also has an issue in the cold.

I'm not at all surprised the Sanyo GA cell might have a problem in the cold. I am surprised the 30Q and VTC6 has a problem, though.

Zebralight's mentioning of a battery for "use in a cold and windy environment" makes me think they are well aware of this issue. I guess that's good?


----------



## moozooh

Interesting. The mk. IV lights using the 6V XHP series LEDs and the SC700 both use a boost driver unlike the previous versions' buck-only which doesn't have this problem (at least I haven't heard of it). There could be a (safety-related?) difference in their behavior under conditions that make the cell's voltage sag significantly, i.e. being cold and not fully charged. If you do the freezer test again, make sure the battery is only charged to like 40–50%.

Then again if the Plus doesn't have this problem, then it might just be an issue with the electronics of the HI (or just your particular light). Hard to say. Thankfully the light is being released in October, so I'll be on the look-out for other reports of H1 "cold starts".


----------



## markr6

I mentioned that in some other threads about my IV HI cutting off on H1. It had nothing to do with cold. I could reproduce it at room temperature. Not every time, but enough to be annoying and swap it for another one.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

moozooh said:


> Interesting. The mk. IV lights using the 6V XHP series LEDs and the SC700 both use a boost driver unlike the previous versions' buck-only which doesn't have this problem (at least I haven't heard of it). There could be a (safety-related?) difference in their behavior under conditions that make the cell's voltage sag significantly, i.e. being cold and not fully charged. If you do the freezer test again, make sure the battery is only charged to like 40–50%.



Yes, the problem only begins to occur on H1 when the battery is down below about 3.8v (resting). And cold and breezy, in winter. I haven't seen the problem since March. It will go away in the cold if I run the light for a bit on H2, to warm it up.



markr6 said:


> I mentioned that in some other threads about my IV HI cutting off on H1. It had nothing to do with cold. I could reproduce it at room temperature. Not every time, but enough to be annoying and swap it for another one.



I think yours must have been a different issue than mine. Or perhaps mine is a borderline case that only shows up in the cold.

But based on Zebra's comments about batteries that are for the cold and wind, I think it's a wider problem than just my light.


----------



## markr6

Anxiously awaiting for October to come! I planned on late Oct or Nov, but either way the countdown is on!


----------



## likethevegetable

markr6 said:


> Anxiously awaiting for October to come! I planned on late Oct or Nov, but either way the countdown is on!



Me too! Despite all of the claims of the egregious tint shift of the XHP70.2 (I would use DC-fix regardless), I’m considering this for my first SC series light. I think it would make for amazing bike light.

I'm normally a die hard right-angle fan, but I don't think I'll ever buy a 2170 headlamp.

The one and four blank rows under the SC and H headers also has me on my toes.


----------



## justanotherguy

Anyone get theirs yet?
/S
Seriously, I did email and am hoping for a response


----------



## Duramarks

When will this be up for sale?


----------



## Connor

It will probably be announced on the website in the last days/hours of October and ship a couple weeks later.


----------



## Duramarks

I noticed on the site, there are some pretty good discounts.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Duramarks said:


> I noticed on the site, there are some pretty good discounts.



Yeah, but they're all old models; at least a couple of years old. IMO, if you're getting a new Zebralight, you should probably buy the newer models (SC64, SC600 MkIV, etc), because they have the new programmable UI. It solves a lot of the complaints people had about the older UI, where they wanted single-click for moonlight, etc. Plus, the newer models are generally brighter and more efficient.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm going to spend $60 on a flashlight, I may as well spend another $20 and get the latest version with what I want on it, instead of something 2-3 years old.

I want them to stick that XHP70.2 in a smaller SC600 form factor with an 18650 cell.


----------



## Tixx

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yeah, but they're all old models; at least a couple of years old. IMO, if you're getting a new Zebralight, you should probably buy the newer models (SC64, SC600 MkIV, etc), because they have the new programmable UI. It solves a lot of the complaints people had about the older UI, where they wanted single-click for moonlight, etc. Plus, the newer models are generally brighter and more efficient.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but if I'm going to spend $60 on a flashlight, I may as well spend another $20 and get the latest version with what I want on it, instead of something 2-3 years old.
> 
> I want them to stick that XHP70.2 in a smaller SC600 form factor with an 18650 cell.



Agree with everything here and definitely would like to see it in an 18650 version.


----------



## justanotherguy

Price is up,, looks like more info...
$119


----------



## Derek Dean

Yes, I was happy to see that Zebralight is going back to .01 lumens for their lowest output level of this newest potential high output light. A definite plus for those of us that enjoy having a light that not only puts out a lot of light when needed, but is also capable of delivering only a tiny bit when needed, as well. I'll be interested to see this light.


----------



## markr6

We broke the $100 barrier (other than the S6330). I'm still a buyer...anxiously waiting...

p.s. So many of the comments on other sites and some here are giving me pause, though. Everyone is mentioning the crappy tint of the 70.2. Maybe I won't be an early buyer after all.

Two weeks left in October...duh duh duh!


----------



## moozooh

Product page is up, max brightness 3000 lm as expected. No runtimes yet.

Notes on the new info:
— Slow strobe still at H1 brightness, which at 3k lumen is completely useless and even ill-advised... Oh well. 
— M1 got brighter, M2 dimmer across the board.
— All High modes are significantly brighter, all Low modes significantly dimmer. Great!
— Judging by H2c (945 lm) still being PID-controlled, it doesn't look like the light will stabilize above 1000 lm (and maybe even above 900) unless all High modes have different temperature targets for the PID. I'm not actually sure this is the case—maybe somebody with a recent-ish SC600 and an infrared thermometer can confirm this hypothesis? Basically what you need to do is to turn the light on at the lowest PID-controlled mode, wait for it to reach the thermal equilibrium and mark the temperature value, then repeat the same for H1.


----------



## markr6

Dec. 14 ship...that'll be a rough wait!

p.s. They're selling the Samsung INR21700-40T for $13.99. I'll go with that if I get this light since HKJ said in his review _"It is a very good high current and capacity cell and looks to be one of the best at the current time in this size."_


----------



## Nichia!

I think this one is pretty weak. I mean look at the older models the plus series is 2000+ Lumens 

They are using the latest and the greatest and the brightest led (xhp70.2) with the latest and greatest battery and only puts out 3000 Lumens??

I was expecting 4000-5000 Lumens out of this one. I hope they change it and make it brighter than 3000 lumens..


----------



## NPL

I think Zebralight is more about sustainable lumens. Even at 3000 I bet it steps down really quickly.


----------



## markr6

I got close but chickened out. $130 for another light and battery...can't do it. Maybe after some feedback from initial guinea pigs.


----------



## Tixx

markr6 said:


> I got close but chickened out. $130 for another light and battery...can't do it. Maybe after some feedback from initial guinea pigs.



Yeah, got a SC600w Mk IV Plus 18650 XHP50.2 Neutral White Flashlight today instead. If you are going that large, have to go more powerful for me. It hits a dead zone for me at that size and output. Just this weird unscientific ratio in my head says it doesn't work for the size/weight/output.


----------



## holygeez03

I'm thinking about having my wife pre-order it for me as a xmas gift... I will also need a new charger as I'm fairly certain I have the older i4 that will not charge 21700... should I get a newer i4 or is there something better in the same price range?


----------



## Slumber

Anyone know if 21700's fit in an Xtar VP2?


----------



## Derek Dean

Looks like a great little light to me, and only slightly bigger than my SC600 IV Plus (which I love), which gives me hope that it will still be pocketable, *and*, the increased mass will likely help with heat dissipation.

I REALLY appreciate that ZEBRALIGHT listened to us about wanting to go back to having extreme low levels on their higher output lights. Only going down to .2 lumens is the only thing that bothers me with my SC600 IV Plus, so having this light not only go up to 3000 lumens on high, but more importantly, go down to .04 lumens on the low end, has made it extremely attractive to me. 

The fact that it's got a high CRI 5000 K LED is icing on the cake. I'll customize the tint with a filter, as I do with all my lights. I just checked, and it looks like the new longer 21700 cell will fit my old charger just fine, so that's not an issue. 

So, I'm in.... ordered and waiting : )


----------



## justanotherguy

Nichia! said:


> I think this one is pretty weak. I mean look at the older models the plus series is 2000+ Lumens
> 
> They are using the latest and the greatest and the brightest led (xhp70.2) with the latest and greatest battery and only puts out 3000 Lumens??
> 
> I was expecting 4000-5000 Lumens out of this one. I hope they change it and make it brighter than 3000 lumens..



whats the point of that, exactly? No way it can sustain that for long, the very reason I am going to flip my emisar.... 

All wow, no pow... or something like that...It's like having the biggest **** but only for 10 seconds...


----------



## twistedraven

Yeah there's no way such a small host could handle 5000 lumens for more than 10 seconds. Not worth it at all. With 3000 lumens out of 70.2, PID might kick in smoothly after like 30 seconds to a minute. Also keep in mind that it's a 90+ cri emitter, so it's even less efficient than the 70 cri 6500k emitters that give the big numbers. It might be able to sustain a 1000 lumen rating-- might. I'm thinking only 7-800 lumens though.


----------



## Swede74

Hefty!


----------



## Bob_McBob

T H I C C


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

twistedraven said:


> Yeah there's no way such a small host could handle 5000 lumens for more than 10 seconds. Not worth it at all. With 3000 lumens out of 70.2, PID might kick in smoothly after like 30 seconds to a minute. Also keep in mind that it's a 90+ cri emitter, so it's even less efficient than the 70 cri 6500k emitters that give the big numbers. It might be able to sustain a 1000 lumen rating-- might. I'm thinking only 7-800 lumens though.



In normal use, I've never had a problem with my SC600w IV Plus maintaining 700 lumens. So, this light should be able to do at least that.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Hoping for an XHP35 HI version.


----------



## markr6

Here's my animated gif attempt to compare size with the SC600. 28mm tube vs 25mm. 10mm longer.







I dunno...I may talk myself into this one.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> Here's my animated gif attempt to compare size with the SC600. 28mm tube vs 25mm. 10mm longer.
> 
> I dunno...I may talk myself into this one.



That's not as much larger as I thought it would be. Hmmm.... maybe I'm interested again.


----------



## twistedraven

Yeah 21700 isn't that much larger compared to 18650, yet it has capacities or discharge capabilities akin to a 26650. It's a great cell format.

The tint shift on the 70.2 still won't make me buy it though. If there were an XHP35 HI in one...still maybe not, because SC600 MK3/4 is about as large of a light I want in my pocket.


----------



## Keitho

I'm surprised they grew the head diameter. I was expecting that they would keep the same or similar reflector and lens diameter, and just grow the battery tube. 

I still threw my wallet at the pre order...poor thing didn't deserve that kind of abuse...


----------



## Nichia!

Now put smooth reflector inside and Oslon black flat and we will have a killer thrower!


----------



## markr6

Keitho said:


> I still threw my wallet at the pre order...poor thing didn't deserve that kind of abuse...



Same here.. Couldn't pass up a new ZL! What a long wait this will be. Maybe I'll get it weeks early like last time!


----------



## justanotherguy

I wonder if any 4800 or 5000 mah cells are suitable for this light....


----------



## markr6

justanotherguy said:


> I wonder if any 4800 or 5000 mah cells are suitable for this light....



The Samsung 40T is 30A maximum continuous, which I'm guessing is overkill even for this light.

The 50E is only 9.8A continuous, but 5000 mAh. I'm sure it would work, but could struggle a bit on high? Not sure really.


----------



## Swedpat

Nichia! said:


> Now put smooth reflector inside and Oslon black flat and we will have a killer thrower!



I thought in similar way. I would like a dedicated Zebralight thrower. The reflector could actually be slightly larger and it still would be pretty compact.


----------



## Swede74

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> That's not as much larger as I thought it would be. Hmmm.... maybe I'm interested again.



I'm o̶v̶e̶r̶c̶o̶m̶p̶e̶n̶s̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ interested because it _is_ larger.


----------



## justanotherguy

markr6 said:


> The Samsung 40T is 30A maximum continuous, which I'm guessing is overkill even for this light.
> 
> The 50E is only 9.8A continuous, but 5000 mAh. I'm sure it would work, but could struggle a bit on high? Not sure really.


I was unable to see in the specs the amp draw...
For some reason I feel drawn to 21700.. i almost pulled the trigger on the Wuben....


----------



## MikeSalt

Well,  it's on the website now.


----------



## StandardBattery

Ordered. There 40T cell is on backorder so I didn't include that, as who knows when it will show up. I'll use it with existing cells to start, I don't need max brightness anyway, will be interested more in investigating its other attributes.

Love that ZebraLight is making a 21700 light, I hope they do a few others with the 21700. I just happened to think to check their website today to see if they were doing anything with 21700 and there it was, with a pre-order. Don't buy new lights much any more, as I'm very happy with the ones I have and Zebralight SC600Fd III Plus is still my EDC. I'm not sure the last new light I bought, probably some of the Mk IV series.


----------



## markr6

Yup they put this up 2 days ago. I had to order one after some consideration.


----------



## Nichia!

It was 4000k now says 5000k???


----------



## markr6

Nichia! said:


> It was 4000k now says 5000k???



I don't recall 4000K at any time. I wouldn't have purchased it if that were the case. I could easily be wrong with my memory though.


----------



## noboneshotdog

markr6 said:


> I don't recall 4000K at any time. I wouldn't have purchased it if that were the case. I could easily be wrong with my memory though.



Yes it's been 5000k


----------



## Bob_McBob

The "d" models are always 5000K anyway.


----------



## texas cop

justanotherguy said:


> I was unable to see in the specs the amp draw...
> For some reason I feel drawn to 21700.. i almost pulled the trigger on the Wuben....



Consider the Sanyo NCR20700B, it's rated at 15 amps. 20700 is a 20.35mm battery, 21700 is a 21.1mm battery, pretty close.
I bought the Wuben A21 and it's a great light.


----------



## moozooh

Nichia! said:


> It was 4000k now says 5000k???


Dude, please stop. Your misguided criticism and counterproductive "suggestions" don't contribute to meaningful discussion and aren't really helping anything except making you look like a frustrated person.

1. It was never 4000K. Like Bob_McBob said, all "d" ("daylight") models are 5000K.

2. ZL evidently don't care about producing "killer throwers". They've only made, like, two or three smooth-reflector models in the last 7 years or so I've been following them. They care about producing general-purpose, bright, power-efficient lights. Oslon Black Flat (which is what, 5W max?), unsurprisingly, is a poor fit for any of those—it's only useful for pencil-beam lights which are an extreme niche even among flashlight enthusiasts. I suppose you're free to mod an SC700d, but I'm not sure it sounds quite as enticing as you make it. I'm not even sure it would throw very well with such a shallow reflector.

3. The LED used in this light, 90+ CRI 5000K XHP70.2, has its maximum power draw rated at 29W—you can check it on Cree's site. Under any normal conditions (e.g. not being water-cooled or anything) it can only sustain 3000 lm for several seconds at that power before heating up and being throttled down by the PID controller to begin with. ZL tend to push their LEDs to the limit of the spec, but I don't remember them significantly exceeding it even once. But even if they did, it would still be throttled down to below 3000 instantly—so it would actually spend even less time at a high brightness as it would heat up quicker. It would also hurt battery compatibility and drastically reduce the window of battery charge state at which you can still turn the light on H1 as the side-effect owing to insane voltage sag. Why would they want that? Why would _you_?

Basically, what all of this suggests is that you want a completely different light from a completely different company, so you might want to visit a completely different thread instead.


----------



## Auringonvalo

I like it how ZL decided to go for a bigger light to get more lumens and more runtime. Personally I find their 1x18650 lights too compact which leads to compromises. True neutral white light and color rendering improvements would be good too. Using a 21700 battery can produce more practical bigger form, but I dislike to have different batteries for different lights. However, 2x18650 probably would had been way too big. Now the question is that where is their new flood light because uniform beam is so pleasant to watch. When using a SC600Fd Mk3 for a couple years, maybe a bit less flood angle this time and a bit more throw. It is still possible to keep uniform light without obvious hotspot then?


----------



## markr6

Auringonvalo said:


> I like it how ZL decided to go for a bigger light to get more lumens and more runtime. Personally I find their 1x18650 lights too compact which leads to compromises.



I'm glad they're so compact, but even with the SC600, another larger light was certainly past due. I wish they kept the S6330 around and continued to improve that. On that note, I'm looking forward to seeing what the C3 looks like.


----------



## likethevegetable

I really hope there is an 18650 to 21700 adapter that will fit in the ZL. I would likely get two new 2170 cells, but it would definitely be nice to have my 18650s as a working backup.

Auringonvalo, have you tried DC-Fix? In my experience, it a slightly more throwy version of ZebraLights frosted lens, with very good efficiency.


----------



## Swedpat

I don't feel a desperate desire of getting a 21700 light because there are already 18650 and 26650 battery format but I find it interesting because it's a Zebralight.


----------



## markr6

Swedpat said:


> I don't feel a desperate desire of getting a 21700 light because there are already 18650 and 26650 battery format but I find it interesting because it's a Zebralight.



Same here. It was different enough to justify, not just an updated Zebralight. I like my Emisar D4S, but even after using that a while then picking up a ZL, they just feel better (ergonomics and UI)


----------



## likethevegetable

I contacted ZebraLight about any other 2170 releases this year and they replied: "No other 21700 cell based lights (H, SC, ...) in the near future."


----------



## archimedes

*Personal attacks, including profanity, has been removed*


----------



## archimedes

@Nichia! please consider this a warning

@Dio and @moozooh please do not address or respond to @Nichia! any more in this thread

All others, please ignore

Thank you


----------



## mildlyangryjohnny

likethevegetable said:


> I contacted ZebraLight about any other 2170 releases this year and they replied: "No other 21700 cell based lights (H, SC, ...) in the near future."



I asked about rollout for any mk5 pieces and was told, "probably right before the end of next year." Has anyone heard anything different?


----------



## MikeSalt

Unfortunately, I just got rid of my 21700 compatible charger in favour of a Pila IBC, so I'll have to sit this one out.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

mildlyangryjohnny said:


> I asked about rollout for any mk5 pieces and was told, "probably right before the end of next year." Has anyone heard anything different?



What's changed with the MkV, compared to the MkIV ?


----------



## markr6

MikeSalt said:


> Unfortunately, I just got rid of my 21700 compatible charger in favour of a Pila IBC, so I'll have to sit this one out.



Unprotected 21700s should fit in mine. If not, it will be alligator clips and a clamp; magnets if I'm feeling refined!


----------



## Nokoff

Illumn.com has a super cheap USB magnetic end charger/power bank that will fit any size.


----------



## markr6

Nokoff said:


> Illumn.com has a super cheap USB magnetic end charger/power bank that will fit any size.



I thought about my Olight charger, but it only does 750mA. The Folomov A1 you mention does 1amp, so that's starting to make more sense for a cell this large (4000mAH+)

I'm pretty sure the 40T cell will fit my Opus 3100. I saw someone post a photo online...I'm just not sure how easily it going in/out.


----------



## likethevegetable

Having a serious internal debate if I should wait for this SC700d or just get an SC600w IV Plus, or maybe the HI right now instead!

Obviously, the ideal answer in an ideal world is to get both, but my funds are limited. With a new cell or two, I'd be looking at 35-45 CAD and an 8 mm wider bezel extra for the SC700d, so it boils down to: is that extra 700 lumens and the allure of a light that uses the cell of the future worth it? 

My primary use case would be walks in the woods and a bike light that I would pocket after. This would be my first straight angle ZL. I currently use my BLF A6 for cycling, and although it's great, it does get pretty hot and it's just not a ZL. My GF is in need of a higher powered bike light so I would give it to her pending the upgrade.

It seems like ZL offers free shipping to Canada again.. is this correct?

If anyone here has an SC600w IV Plus and is considering an SC700d and would kindly share their 2¢, your opinions are appreciated. 

Thanks for that comparison GIF markr6, just wondering, did you attempt to scale it or is that just a snapshot from ZL's site? I could count pixels, but I'd rather ask, hah.


----------



## markr6

likethevegetable said:


> Thanks for that comparison GIF markr6, just wondering, did you attempt to scale it or is that just a snapshot from ZL's site? I could count pixels, but I'd rather ask, hah.



Both images from ZL site and layered in photoshop. I match the cap/body diameter exactly then just added a little to get that 3mm difference. So close enough but not perfect.

I finally tried the SC600w IV Plus and the tint was pretty nasty yellow. So I'm sticking with my SC64w and SC600w IV HI for now. I did purchase the SC700d, but only out of curiosity and that it was something new vs. just another updated light. The size is now way beyond pocketability for me, so it will be more of a novelty...maybe something I'll actually use around home. But honestly, I don't need this kind of output often. The SC64/600 is plenty.


----------



## holygeez03

I used my SC62w as "yard duty" for years... I finally upgraded to the SC600 IV Plus and at first I wasn't impressed (high expectations) but it has really grown on me and I use it frequently now... and when I go back to something like the SC62w, I am reminded of how nice the super-wide hotspot on the Plus is for walking around the yard.

I am considering the SC700 because size isn't really a concern for "yard duty"... but I am not sure what the beam will be like compared to the Plus and if it will provide any significant benefit... battery capacity isn't really an issue for my use either because every time I check it, my Sanyo GA is over 50%.

I have been happy with the tint of the Plus... the tint-shift and "purple ring" that I think is from bezel reflection is annoying when there is snow covering the ground, but otherwise I don't notice it. The only real negative for me is that the light does get hot pretty quick on H1.

I would say that if you need something and can start using it right away, get the IV Plus or the HI, depending on what is more important: flood or distance.


----------



## likethevegetable

Thanks for the input guys. I kinda put the HI there as an afterthought, I really love flood so the plus would be a no brainer. 

I'll have to really exercise some self discipline here folks.. you know the struggle.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

likethevegetable said:


> Thanks for the input guys. I kinda put the HI there as an afterthought, I really love flood so the plus would be a no brainer.
> 
> I'll have to really exercise some self discipline here folks.. you know the struggle.



The Plus and the HI make great complimentary lights. One is great for flood, the other good for throw. When I cycle, I use the Plus as my headlight, and I carry the HI for spotting things further up the trail (like animals).


----------



## 18650

Keitho said:


> I'm surprised they grew the head diameter. I was expecting that they would keep the same or similar reflector and lens diameter, and just grow the battery tube. I still threw my wallet at the pre order...poor thing didn't deserve that kind of abuse...


 That's probably the disappointing part for me. I was curious what form a 21700 light from ZL would take and thought they could grow the tube from their SC6x/SC6XX lights. Perhaps the more slender version will come in a future SC70d.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

18650 said:


> That's probably the disappointing part for me. I was curious what form a 21700 light from ZL would take and thought they could grow the tube from their SC6x/SC6XX lights. Perhaps the more slender version will come in a future SC70d.



Without a larger reflector, the light would probably be too floody. The XHP70.2 emitter produces a ton of flood if it's not controlled in a largish reflector. The SC600w Plus, with a XHP50.2, is already very floody. Stick a 70.2 in the same size reflector, and you may as well put a frosted lens on it.


----------



## twistedraven

Even with the 70.2 in the large L6 reflector, I think it's rather floody. The sheer amount of flood to this light might work to lessen any possible tint shift within the beam.

Fireflies just teased an upcoming product that has pretty much the same dimensions, actually even a little bit shorter, than the SC700D. Powered by 1 21700, and 7x optics. I can already vouch for the performance of the SST20 4000k leds, especially with minus green filters over them. Good times to be a flashlight fan, two great options for compact 21700 lights.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> Good times to be a flashlight fan, two great options for compact 21700 lights.



No kidding! We say that every year or so...but now more than ever, it's so true.


----------



## holygeez03

I realize that we won't know for sure until the light is in poeple's hands... but can we expect the SC700 to have a lower lux than the SC600IV Plus based on the output, emitter size, and reflector?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

holygeez03 said:


> I realize that we won't know for sure until the light is in poeple's hands... but can we expect the SC700 to have a lower lux than the SC600IV Plus based on the output, emitter size, and reflector?



We don't know, but I suspect it will be approximately the same. You're not buying these lights for lux, though.


----------



## markr6

After looking at this older thread on BLF, I'm wondering if I should cancel this and wait. This was for a 4000K, but NASTY NASTY light (yellow, purple, green)

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58094


----------



## holygeez03

Yes... but I already have a SC600IV Plus... so I am trying to decide if I would gain anything from the SC700 besides runtime (which is not a concern for my usage).


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> After looking at this older thread on BLF, I'm wondering if I should cancel this and wait. This was for a 4000K, but NASTY NASTY light (yellow, purple, green)



Given your dislike of off-white tints, you should probably wait. However, I have a 4600K light that uses XHP70.2, and there isn't much green in it. It's a white hotspot, mostly white corona, then a *very* purple spill. It's not as bad as yellow/purple/green, but it's still not great.




holygeez03 said:


> Yes... but I already have a SC600IV Plus... so I am trying to decide if I would gain anything from the SC700 besides runtime (which is not a concern for my usage).



Presumably, it will be able to maintain a higher output after PID settles it down to a constant temperature.


----------



## CarpentryHero

holygeez03 said:


> I realize that we won't know for sure until the light is in poeple's hands... but can we expect the SC700 to have a lower lux than the SC600IV Plus based on the output, emitter size, and reflector?



Considering it’s an xhp70.2 instead of an xhp50, the head is too small to give extra throw. It’ll have a little bit more lux only because of its bigger output. You can almost count on a larger hotspot than the Sc600w IV plus

edit : the Klarus G20 is the closest thing on the market for reflector to emitter size and the same 3000 lumen output. Should be some beam shots and reviews on that somewhere, they are a fairly flood light


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 said:


> After looking at this older thread on BLF, I'm wondering if I should cancel this and wait. This was for a 4000K, but NASTY NASTY light (yellow, purple, green)
> 
> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/58094


Mark, I think you might be over reacting a bit. 

First of all, as you know, I'm a tint geek, and what I saw in that thread didn't bother me that much. Second, that wasn't even the emitter we're getting, and third, it was tested in a light that wasn't designed for it, so of course the results were less than optimal. 

I remember reading many similar dire predictions about the XHP 50.2 using the clear lens in the SC600w IV+, and that's turned out to be my favorite ZL. However, the beam is not perfect. There is a bit of a yellow cast to the corona, and maybe a slight purplish tinge at the extreme edge of the spill, but I've never once noticed those things in actually use, and I use that light every night at work. 

I am, however, totally thrilled that ZL is making the "d" version of this light (5000k with 93-95 CRI) available *without the frosted lens*, and that they've added those two lower levels back to the UI. Think of it, being able to go from .04 lumens to 3000 lumens quickly and easily with the choice of 12 distinct levels........ and configurable to what best suits each person. WOW. 

I think for many folks, the SC600w IV+ might actually be the better choice for it's smaller size, but I'm seriously hopeful that the SC700d will prove to be an even better tool for me at work. And while it's great to see beam shots and read reviews, sometimes, for me, the only way to know if something is going to work is to actually get it in my hands and try it out for a few days. My hope is that the SC700d will have the same beam profile as the SC600w IV+, although I'd consider an even broader hotspot to be a good thing. 

With ZL's 30 day return policy, I feel return shipping is an acceptable price to pay if for some reason I'm not thrilled with this new light. To be honest, I had kind of expected to use that return policy when I pre-ordered the SC600w IV+, but it turned out to be so excellent that I decided to keep it, which I'm sure is what ZL hopes will happen, and why they feel secure offering that kind of liberal return policy.

In any case, I'll be interested to see what you think of ZL's newest series of lights.


----------



## nahid0812

holygeez03 said:


> Yes... but I already have a SC600IV Plus... so I am trying to decide if I would gain anything from the SC700 besides runtime (which is not a concern for my usage).



whats your experience with SC600IV ?


----------



## Keitho

18650 said:


> Perhaps the more slender version will come in a future SC70d.


Oh man, that would be sweet


----------



## likethevegetable

Keitho said:


> Oh man, that would be sweet



Not sure what your definition of "future" extends to, but I contacted ZebraLight about any other 2170 releases this year and they replied: "No other 21700 cell based lights (H, SC, ...) in the near future."

I'm extremely torn between this and the SC600w IV Plus. The major thing that makes me want to wait for the SC700d is the fact that I'd get my feet wet in 2170 cells, since they will be much more prominent in the long run. I don't mind the extra tube length and diameter (on paper), but that 8 mm turns me off.


----------



## markr6

I'm just wondering if I should cancel the 21700 cell I ordered along with my 700d. Will they not get those in time? If they don't I assume they'll hold up my order.

There's plenty of time, so I'm going with it for now, trusting they'll have those in stock by December.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> I'm just wondering if I should cancel the 21700 cell I ordered along with my 700d. Will they not get those in time? If they don't I assume they'll hold up my order.
> 
> There's plenty of time, so I'm going with it for now, trusting they'll have those in stock by December.



It's too bad this light doesn't come with an adapter, so you could use 18650 cells as well.


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 said:


> I'm just wondering if I should cancel the 21700 cell I ordered along with my 700d. Will they not get those in time? If they don't I assume they'll hold up my order.
> 
> There's plenty of time, so I'm going with it for now, trusting they'll have those in stock by December.


Since the 21700 cell is not a specialty item, I can't imagine that they wouldn't have them in stock when the lights are ready to ship, however, if you're really curious, simply contact ZL with your concern. I'm sure their are others on this forum that would like an answer to that question. 

I'm not in a huge hurry to get this light, I'm only pre-ordering because I know I'll want to try it out personally, and I've seen how their new lights can quickly go out of stock after the first batch arrives, but hey, it's not like I don't have a few other lights to keep me happy : )


----------



## jb509

Slumber Pass said:


> Anyone know if 21700's fit in an Xtar VP2?



Xtar site confirmed 21700 will fit in VP2.


----------



## markr6

jb509 said:


> Xtar site confirmed 21700 will fit in VP2.



I'll use that if I run into issues with my Opus. That VP2 is one of my favorites. I like the actual voltage readout opposed to the "speedometer" thing they have going on now.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

The problem I find with chargers is that it's really hard to get the cells out (possible ripping the wrap at the ends), if they just barely fit into the slots. I wish they'd make the slots capable of handing something like 80mm, which would give plenty of room to remove batteries.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The problem I find with chargers is that it's really hard to get the cells out (possible ripping the wrap at the ends), if they just barely fit into the slots. I wish they'd make the slots capable of handing something like 80mm, which would give plenty of room to remove batteries.



It seems like every electronic device in the 80s had the ribbon under the batteries to help pop them out. What happened to that?

I guess I can cut a strip of plastic from a milk jug if I really run into issues.


----------



## Beckler

For the sc600 experts on here, what is the runtime and stepdown time likely to be on this new one at 3k Lm?


----------



## likethevegetable

markr6 said:


> It seems like every electronic device in the 80s had the ribbon under the batteries to help pop them out. What happened to that?
> 
> I guess I can cut a strip of plastic from a milk jug if I really run into issues.



I cut off a tag from a shirt and singed the end. Works as a great pull for my XTAR PB2, especially since it's covered.


----------



## markr6

likethevegetable said:


> I cut off a tag from a shirt and singed the end. Works as a great pull for my XTAR PB2, especially since it's covered.



The PB2 is one of the toughest. I was just talking with Xtar about a few products, and specifically mentioned that.

Sorry for the OT talk!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> It seems like every electronic device in the 80s had the ribbon under the batteries to help pop them out. What happened to that?
> 
> I guess I can cut a strip of plastic from a milk jug if I really run into issues.



Getting them out is only one problem. Getting them out without ripping the wrap at the positive or negative terminal is another. I usually use a plastic-coated paperclip to pry them out from the positive end, if it's in tight. That way, the wrap doesn't drag across anything that could rip it.




Beckler said:


> For the sc600 experts on here, what is the runtime and stepdown time likely to be on this new one at 3k Lm?



If it's anything like the SC600w mkIV Plus, you'll probably only get 1-2 minutes at maximum before it starts to ramp down. However, I can keep my Plus on maximum if I use it as a bike light on a cool night. The cold wind keeps PID from kicking in, and I get about 30 minutes run-time on max.

I suspect the numbers will be similar on the SC700d. Higher output means more heat and less runtime, but you have a larger body and higher capacity battery to compensate.


----------



## markr6

markr6 said:


> I'm just wondering if I should cancel the 21700 cell I ordered along with my 700d. Will they not get those in time? If they don't I assume they'll hold up my order.
> 
> There's plenty of time, so I'm going with it for now, trusting they'll have those in stock by December.




Samsung INR21700-40T photo is up and in stock.


----------



## candelabrah

Is it just me, or does it look like the 700d will have a *non-reversible* pocket clip? The groove looks uniquely tiered and deeper towards the tail. This looks like a one-way snap-on.

I'm only a ZL headlamp owner at the moment, so I'm not sure how ZL typically does clips on larger lights (between screw-in and snap-on). But I do appreciate the reversible clip on my H52w. Sometimes I like to keep a light heads-up in a bag, but clipped in.


----------



## t76turbo

candelabrah said:


> Is it just me, or does it look like the 700d will have a *non-reversible* pocket clip? The groove looks uniquely tiered and deeper towards the tail. This looks like a one-way snap-on.
> 
> I'm only a ZL headlamp owner at the moment, so I'm not sure how ZL typically does clips on larger lights (between screw-in and snap-on). But I do appreciate the reversible clip on my H52w. Sometimes I like to keep a light heads-up in a bag, but clipped in.




The clip only goes in the groove near the tail cap per the pictures on ZL’s site. Unless they change it in production models.


----------



## t76turbo

My biggest concern is the fact ZL mentions only flat top UNPROTECTED cells will fit. Not sure if that will always be true. But being much more comfortable with protected cells, that may be a deal breaker for me personally. 

I do do want this light though.


----------



## holygeez03

You must be new here... ZL has been doing this for a long time... buy quality unprotected cells and you will have the same chance of problem as using protected cells (slim).


----------



## t76turbo

holygeez03 said:


> You must be new here... ZL has been doing this for a long time... buy quality unprotected cells and you will have the same chance of problem as using protected cells (slim).




Not new. Check out the date under my user name. Less than a year newer than you 

But it I know what you mean. You can be safe with the correct procedures and buying good cells. But I like to have a little back up to my procedues just in case. Probably overkill to be so cautious.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

t76turbo said:


> But it I know what you mean. You can be safe with the correct procedures and buying good cells. But I like to have a little back up to my procedues just in case. Probably overkill to be so cautious.



Zebralight has things like low-voltage-protection and thermal protection built right into the light. There's really no need for protected cells, unless your charger is doing bad things.


----------



## tsask

t76turbo said:


> But it I know what you mean. You can be safe with the correct procedures and buying good cells. But I like to have a little back up to my procedues just in case. Probably overkill to be so cautious.


I was concerned about unprotected cells in my ZL, I learned about ZL's circuitry with safeguards built in, it's no longer a concern as I used top quality cells


----------



## Glock27

Don't assume a protection circuit actually buys you more protection. The + ribbon cable is very susceptible to damage/shorting. There have been lots of documented instances of this...

G27


----------



## markr6

I agree. Doubling up protection isn't always a good thing. In fact it could make things worse. I have a good example, but it's a bit crude so I'll refrain from going any further.


----------



## justanotherguy

Correct me if I'm wrong. But don't protection circuits limit the amps...so if your are pulling 5 plus.. It'd trip...? What would the amp limit be typically on a protected cell?


----------



## Keitho

Pretty much all consumer electronics use "unprotected" cells, and rely on the device's circuitry. Think of a typical device with a single 18650 cell, like my toothbrush. It doesn't have a cell with a wrapper covering a protection circuit--it uses an "unprotected" cell, and has charge/discharge circuits to protect it built into the toothbrush.

Multi-cell devices, especially with cells in series: yes, please, protect every cell. Single-cell [something]-fire lights--if you must use the light once prior to throwing it in the trash, use a quality protected cell. Single-cell lights, or multi-cell lights with all-parallel cells--I don't see a need for individual cell protection if the device is high quality and has protection circuitry.

Another example of protection being a bad thing--some are prone to cutting out from a shock--like a weapon-mounted light. Not that a Zebralight is a good choice for weapon mounting...


----------



## holygeez03

Do you really have a toothbrush with an 18650 in it? That seems like a LOT of capacity... probably don't need to charge it very often.


----------



## Keitho

holygeez03 said:


> Do you really have a toothbrush with an 18650 in it? T


Actually, that's a great question. I assumed based on the size/weight of the toothbrush it was an 18650...but found out with a quick internet search that its actually a 14500. Makes a lot more sense, now that I think about it. The same search revealed that, of course, it is an "unprotected" cell.


----------



## Cpl S

I was going to pass on this one, but I just pulled 10 fresh Samsung 30T's from a couple new Dewalt 3AH batteries. I was hoping for 30Q 18650's but I immediately thought about the SC700 when I saw these. I can't let these go to waste 

I do love to talk myself into new lights.


----------



## StandardBattery

markr6 said:


> Samsung INR21700-40T photo is up and in stock.


It seems the boat came in. The 40T is now available from many battery sellers. Excited to have the new 40T and 50E available. Now we need more 21700 based lights!


----------



## sp5it

XHP70.2 can't be good in any torch.


----------



## Derek Dean

sp5it said:


> XHP70.2 can't be good in any torch.


Hmmmm......one of the reasons I'm looking forward to the SC700d is that I'm quite interested to see how the ZL engineers have incorporated the XPH70.2 into this new light. 

They've got a pretty good track record so far, so I'm willing to bet that this light will be a winner as well.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Keitho said:


> Actually, that's a great question. I assumed based on the size/weight of the toothbrush it was an 18650...but found out with a quick internet search that its actually a 14500. Makes a lot more sense, now that I think about it. The same search revealed that, of course, it is an "unprotected" cell.



Okay, that's it: I am going to send my electric toothbrush to Vinh and ask him to upgrade it to an 18650.

A V54 toothbrush! Wait till I show it off to my friends! Maybe even a Fiat Brush!


----------



## Scenic

Derek Dean said:


> Hmmmm......one of the reasons I'm looking forward to the SC700d is that I'm quite interested to see how the ZL engineers have incorporated the XPH70.2 into this new light.
> 
> They've got a pretty good track record so far, so I'm willing to bet that this light will be a winner as well.




Yea, I have high hopes as well. If it's anything like the Thrunite TC20 with the XPH70.2 it will be great.


----------



## markr6

About a month or less to wait!


----------



## Derek Dean

Should be just in time for the longest night of the year : )


----------



## moozooh

Keitho said:


> Pretty much all consumer electronics use "unprotected" cells, and rely on the device's circuitry. Think of a typical device with a single 18650 cell, like my toothbrush. It doesn't have a cell with a wrapper covering a protection circuit--it uses an "unprotected" cell, and has charge/discharge circuits to protect it built into the toothbrush.


To be fair, the main reason why this is the case is that the end-user is not expected to take cells out by themself. Flashlights and Ecigs are the notable exceptions but they're also considered enthusiast items with all the expected caveats (e.g. the lack of safety certifications that would allow suing the manufacturer for damage—the end-user assumes any and all risks and responsibilities). As such, the highest danger of using unprotected cells is experienced when the cell is *not inside* the device in question. An accidental short or a charging fault are rather common (especially if kids are involved) and very dangerous. Protection circuits don't safeguard from all kinds of damage or accidents, but they help minimize risks which are decidedly non-trivial. I won't try to convince anyone to do it one way or another, but this information is to be kept in mind when making decisions.



Beckler said:


> For the sc600 experts on here, what is the runtime and stepdown time likely to be on this new one at 3k Lm?


Assuming you can cool it down sufficiently to sustain maximum brightness—which is highly unlikely, mind you—you should get about 30 minutes with a 17.5 Wh battery (Samsung T48 4800 mAh) based on the spec limit of the LED (29 W). At room temperature it will start stepping down almost immediately, albeit very gradually, until it reaches its temperature target; this should happen within 10–20 minutes or so, depending on the ambient temperature and the mode you started at. I have revised my earlier estimates based on the fact that the lowest PID mode has 945 lm maximum brightness, meaning that one and any higher values are not considered sustainable under normal conditions. So, assuming a 17.5 Wh battery and ~900 lm at the thermal equilibrium point (which depends on ambient temperature), you'd be looking at 2–2.5 hours or so. Subtract about 13–15% of that runtime for a 4000 mAh battery (Samsung T40). The real-world runtime difference between T40 and T48 is expected to be less than the nominal 16.7% on the higher modes since the T40 has a more robust voltage curve, thus not sagging as much under heavy load.


----------



## justanotherguy

Still wondering if this thing will run on a 4800 or 5000 mAh cell.... Really looking to run 1-1500 lumens for a long time


----------



## Connor

I don't think 10A will be enough to get 3000 lm .. you probably need around 20A max. cells.


----------



## Auringonvalo

What I have experienced with a SC600Fd Mk3 is that 1500 Lm mode stays a bit over 1 min in room temperature before stepping down. It seems that about 400 Lm is possible without stepping down in normal conditions. About 800 Lm can be held when going below the freezing point and 1000 Lm or above when it is really really cold. Assuming that SC700d lumen PID modes and highest non-PID mode is linear compared to their other regulated lights, stable 1500 Lm could be very possible when going below the freezing point. This would be good because in Finland it is usually well below the freezing point in darkest days or there is so much wind that it has similar cooling effect.


----------



## Derek Dean

Well, if it's cold enough outside that my new SC700d can maintain 1500 lumens, then I'm staying inside : )


----------



## justanotherguy

Derek Dean said:


> Well, if it's cold enough outside that my new SC700d can maintain 1500 lumens, then I'm staying inside : )



LoL.... It's 32 here and I'm going to the store in a shirt


----------



## radellaf

likethevegetable said:


> If anyone here has an SC600w IV Plus and is considering an SC700d and would kindly share their 2¢, your opinions are appreciated.



Have the IV Plus and the III HI, and pre-ordered the 700 as soon as I saw it (today). I never pre-order anything, but I'll make an exception since I'm so excited to see this LED & battery combination with all ZL's finesse instead of the other ugly (IMHO) and big ones currently available.

Why I want it is more a tech geek thing than practical use. I have an XHP35, then 50, so naturally I "need" a 70 now. 18650 is a fine format and I have tons of them and they'll be the main thing for a long time. I love the SC64 and Emisar D4 size for SDC (some day carry, 1xAAA is EDC). The Emisar D4S is a lot of fun and now I know what a 26650 is like. It makes for a good body size, but until Japan and Korea take up the format, one 26650 flashlight is enough. 21700 is being taken seriously by battery manufacturers so should be fun to watch. 18650s really seem to have topped out, since the "3600mAh" cells I got are no better than the 3500mAh of last year. I got the 40T just so I get something with the light, but will have to do some research on lower current cells after we get some current measurements off the SC700.

So, it's a LED I really want to have in a light, and a way to use a new battery size I'm interested in. And it's a new ZL. That is enough. Worth the sacrifice of putting off a second 8TB external drive for a month or two.



Connor said:


> I don't think 10A will be enough to get 3000 lm .. you probably need around 20A max. cells.



30W at 3.6V and 85% efficiency is still a bit under 10A, so I don't expect this light to go over that. Given 18650 performance, though, 10-15A cells running at 8-10A may have the same or worse Wh than lower mAh 25-35A cells. However, unless I'm running it in a mug of water or on a bike that isn't my exercise bike, that 8-10A isn't going to account for much of the time I use this light. So, I'll probably get a lower drain cell a few days after the light arrives and I get tired of waiting for the one it came with to charge.


----------



## CelticCross74

"made in America this time"? I remember reading on this site I believe a couple of years ago that ZL has TWO factories. ONE is in China for THAT part of the world. The OTHER is in TEXAS. I actually emailed ZL when the newer SC600's came out asking them where they source their materials. To my amazement ZL actually emailed me back in 24 hours! In the newer ZL's for North America they are made in Texas. All the parts are from the States, India and a couple of other countries that are NOT China.

As for the ZL's made in their Chinese factory even THOSE have more non Chinese parts than Chinese parts. I think it is the ZL bodies and reflectors that the Chinese ZL factory makes the rest of the parts are from Western suppliers.

As for "marrying itself to CREE" there are only a couple other emitter producers left now like Nichia that have a foot hold in the LED light market. What I wonder is are they ACTUALLY MADE BY CREE or are they cheap Chinese CREE knock offs? For how much they cost I assume the emitters are actual CREE emitters off of a CREE assembly line.

I also took a shot in the dark and asked ZL if they could email me the design schematics of the SC600 and of course got a "NO" answer to that in return. Was worth a shot lol..


----------



## Charlie Hustle

sp5it said:


> XHP70.2 can't be good in any torch.



You might as well forget it. It's like a cult.:welcome:


----------



## moozooh

CelticCross74 said:


> As for "marrying itself to CREE" there are only a couple other emitter producers left now like Nichia that have a foot hold in the LED light market. What I wonder is are they ACTUALLY MADE BY CREE or are they cheap Chinese CREE knock offs?


Let's be honest here, Nichia's "foothold" in the LED light market is really tiny... It all amounts to low-volume enthusiast-only lights. Nichia has no presence in consumer flashlights otherwise.

I wouldn't worry about knock-offs (...has anyone actually seen those?) in high-performance lights for at least two reasons. One is that the cost of the LED(s) is only 5–15% the full price of a brand-name light (the more expensive the light, the less the percentage), so there is not much economical incentive to downgrade. The other is that for companies operating on smaller-scale enthusiast markets it's nearly impossible to avoid getting caught trying to pass a noticeably inferior emitter for a high performance one. Users post reviews and disassemble their lights all the time, it's all too easy to get busted and have their reputation ruined for no tangible payoff. Literally not worth the risk.


----------



## StorminMatt

Connor said:


> I don't think 10A will be enough to get 3000 lm .. you probably need around 20A max. cells.



A couple of things. First of all, I am not sure whether 3000 lumens will TRULY require more than 10A. My old SC600Fd Plus draws 6A for 1500 lumens. This at least suggests a 12A draw for 3000 lumens on the SC700d. But if Zebralight has improved the circuitry on newer lights and/or the efficiency of the XHP70.2 is significantly better than the older XHP50 (likely), it is possible that the SC700d may draw proportionately less current than the SC600Fd Plus. It could be that 10A is just FINE for 3000 lumens.

But even if it’s not, the 50E is rated at 10A for CONTINUOUS discharge. I have not seen what it can do intermittently. But I’m guessing around 15A (which should be sufficient beyond all doubt). Considering that there is probably no way that you are going to get 3000 lumens from this light for very long unless it is 30 below with a stiff wind, you are probably fine using the 50E for the brief period of time the light can maintain 3000 lumens.

However, even if you feel better playing it safe, you can certainly use a lower current cell if you keep out of H1. The 50E should be able to safely support the 1458 lumen H2 indefinitely. And even here, you are dealing with a PID mode - even this output will not likely be maintained for long under normal conditions of use.


----------



## moozooh

StorminMatt said:


> My old SC600Fd Plus draws 6A for 1500 lumens. This at least suggests a 12A draw for 3000 lumens on the SC700d. But if Zebralight has improved the circuitry on newer lights and/or the efficiency of the XHP70.2 is significantly better than the older XHP50 (likely), it is possible that the SC700d may draw proportionately less current than the SC600Fd Plus.


Going purely by the specs: XHP50 in your SC600Fd IV Plus is rated at 3 A at 6 V; XHP 70.2 in the SC700d is rated at 4.8 A at 6 V. So, with operating voltage being equal, in the worst case the new LED will demand a 4.8/3=1.6 times increased current draw on the battery, so 6×1.6=9.6 A. And indeed, unless you have a way to sustain the 3000 lm brightness, it will drop down very significantly.


----------



## fneuf

Do we have any hints on the probable runtimes of this light ?


----------



## radellaf

Until ZL posts something, all we could do is estimate lower levels based on battery capacity and the SC600mkiv+. 33% more at least with a 4000mAh vs 3000mAh battery, for the high amp cells. 
I have some Samsung 50E 5000mAh that should arrive before the flashlight so I can test those when it gets here.

Non PID level is 358 for 5.1H with the 600, they're saying 583lm for this one, I'll wager that'll run about 4.2h off a 40T if they're testing the 600 with the VTC6. 
Not sure if they're using the Sanyo 3500/10A cell, though. Odd the runtime specs don't mention battery any more, unless I'm just not seeing it.

Would be amazing if it got here the 8th night of Hanukkah (Dec 10), but I'll be happy if their 14th estimate gets it here by Christmas. Or New Year. Hope they take more time rather than let through problems if there's a choice.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

radellaf said:


> Non PID level is 358 for 5.1H with the 600, they're saying 583lm for this one, I'll wager that'll run about 4.2h off a 40T if they're testing the 600 with the VTC6.
> Not sure if they're using the Sanyo 3500/10A cell, though. Odd the runtime specs don't mention battery any more, unless I'm just not seeing it.



I get 5.7 hours using the Sanyo GA cell.


----------



## NPL

I was a little hesitant on this light but there doesn't seem to be anything else out on the market that offers the same combination of output, CRI, efficiency, build quality, and compactness. 

It's a shame they didn't offer it in 4500k instead of 5000k. Hopefully they will release a C version with 4000k as well for the other half.


----------



## twistedraven

You might want to look into the Firefles E07 as well. Like the SC700d, it's a 21700 light, high cri emitter options, compact. Its fet+1 driver isn't quite as efficient as zebralight's buck-boost drivers, but it will produce more light on its highest output as a result of the fet. Lower outputs should be relatively equivalent. The E07 comes with two different high cri options: nichia 219C 5000k 92 cri, and luminus sst20 4000k 95 cri.


----------



## NPL

twistedraven said:


> You might want to look into the Firefles E07 as well. Like the SC700d, it's a 21700 light, high cri emitter options, compact. Its fet+1 driver isn't quite as efficient as zebralight's buck-boost drivers, but it will produce more light on its highest output as a result of the fet. Lower outputs should be relatively equivalent. The E07 comes with two different high cri options: nichia 219C 5000k 92 cri, and luminus sst20 4000k 95 cri.


The fet+1 driver kills it for me. 
For extended use, the Fireflies will not have regulated high output unless you use it in +1 linear which is both inefficient and lower in output. Otherwise does seem like a great light.

In practice though, the 7 LEDs might compensate for the ineffocient driver.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

NPL said:


> The fet+1 driver kills it for me.
> 
> In practice though, the 7 LEDs might compensate for the ineffocient driver.



Most people looking at Zebralights, want them for their regulated output. FET drivers, with their dimming output as the battery voltage drops, will probably disappoint. And, yes, there's the efficiency problem with FET drivers, and the linear 7135 driver that's part of the FET+1 design.

Those FET+1 drivers make for nice budget lights, but they don't really belong in a $50+ light, IMO.


----------



## twistedraven

Eh I think they're fine for small lights, that don't have enough surface area to manage high output for very long, where the longer sustained runtime of lower outputs don't overheat the host.


----------



## NPL

Good point,never thought of it that way. Hopefully the sc700d's bigger head will help she'd more heat. 

The beauty of the ZL is that if used in cold weather with wind, example on a bike, the sustained output will be seen even if the light is relatively small.


----------



## radellaf

twistedraven said:


> Eh I think they're fine for small lights, that don't have enough surface area.



The problem for me with them is that the outputs I'd like most are somewhere near the limits, like 200-300lm from the mkIV. That's just where the non regulated drivers are the least efficient. I'm happy to have the Emisar D4 and D4S, but I wouldn't have paid $100+ for them. I do have to wonder if a much higher frequency FET with an output filter couldn't act like a bad buck converter. It's not the regulation I care about so much as the efficiency. And not so much for needing the extra hour of runtime in any practical situation but just wanting good technology in the driver. Well, also, less heat from the driver so the sustainable max lumens will be higher.


----------



## markr6

Getting closer! This long wait wasn't as bad as I thought. Still crossing my fingers for an early ship...like next week!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Yeah, this one has my interest. But, I've set a limit of only 2 new Zebralights per year, and I've already bought 3 this year, so....?

Definitely going to check out the reviews and real user-specs on this one. I'm interested in knowing whether it's a Plus killer, which I bought this summer. I know it's not going to have perfect tint, but neither does the Plus with its 50.2 domed emitter. I find the Plus has decent tint, which is all I hoped for.


----------



## markr6

My Plus had a nasty yellow tint, so the bar is set low. But the 5000K on this shouldn't be yellow...but bring on the green and purple?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> My Plus had a nasty yellow tint, so the bar is set low. But the 5000K on this shouldn't be yellow...but bring on the green and purple?



I don't find the Plus is too yellow. A touch of yellow/green in the corona, like most domed Crees, but acceptable. IIRC, I think I posted this beam shot in another thread of the MkIV Plus (auto white balance, auto exposure):








In any case, my expectation for the SC700d isn't any better. The 70.2 emitter seems worse for color shift than even the 50.2.


----------



## StorminMatt

Does Zebralight ship out earlier preorders first, or is the time of preorder irrelevant?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

StorminMatt said:


> Does Zebralight ship out earlier preorders first, or is the time of preorder irrelevant?



I think they do, based on the shipments of the SC64w HI, recently. I'm not sure it's exact, but based on my experience it seems to be generally FIFO.


----------



## burntoshine

kj2 said:


> If that charger supports 21700 batteries, then yes.
> Depends on the charger you have.



What about a Pila IBC charger?

I'm assuming it won't work because an 18650 is as big (long) as the ports get. And 21700 are longer than 18650s, yes?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

burntoshine said:


> What about a Pila IBC charger?
> 
> I'm assuming it won't work because an 18650 is as big (long) as the ports get. And 21700 are longer than 18650s, yes?



Yeah, that charger won't be any good for the longer 21700 cells. There are many recent chargers that do support 21700's, but they're still going to be a very tight fit in most of them. Protected button-top 18650's are almost as long as a flat-top unprotected 21700. If you have a charger that easily fits a protected 18650, then it will probably work for a 21700.


----------



## ProblemChild

burntoshine said:


> What about a Pila IBC charger?
> 
> I'm assuming it won't work because an 18650 is as big (long) as the ports get. And 21700 are longer than 18650s, yes?



21700's are longer than 1860's. I have a Xtar Dragon VP4 that will fit a 21700 snug. The main issue is, obviously, that you dont destroy your battery wrappers trying to get the battery out of the charger.


----------



## Prototype3a

I really hope Zebralight makes a SC700fd.

Searching around some, I'm a little surprised there aren't more 21700 lights on the market but I've also been watching the development of this cell for several years now.


----------



## Connor

BTW, Zebralight now lists the* Samsung INR21700-40T 4000mAh 30A 21700 *below the SC700d ("related items"). 
That could be an indication that a 10A cell is not enough for this flashlight. 

Source: http://www.zebralight.com/SC700d-21700-XHP702-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_233.html


----------



## markr6

Connor said:


> BTW, Zebralight now lists the* Samsung INR21700-40T 4000mAh 30A 21700 *below the SC700d ("related items").
> That could be an indication that a 10A cell is not enough for this flashlight.
> 
> Source: http://www.zebralight.com/SC700d-21700-XHP702-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_233.html



I saw that and purchased one in October along with the SC700. 5000mAh was tempting but I trust ZL with this one.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Connor said:


> BTW, Zebralight now lists the* Samsung INR21700-40T 4000mAh 30A 21700 *below the SC700d ("related items").
> That could be an indication that a 10A cell is not enough for this flashlight.



I'd estimate that 10A is about what this light will use. If you figure about 100 lumens/W on max, that's 30W of power. With a low battery around 3V, 10A would be required to get you to the 30W needed. Less for a full battery.

But a 10A cell is probably going to suffer from a lot more voltage sag than a 30A cell, so in the end the total Wh out of the batteries may be the same.

I think if you're not going to be using max much, then the higher capacity cell may be better. Otherwise, may as well go with the high-drain cell.

But why would anyone get this light on _not_ use it on max much?


----------



## StorminMatt

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> But why would anyone get this light on _not_ use it on max much?



Because you CAN’T. I guarantee you the light will heat up VERY fast on H1, and quickly power back as the PID does its thing.


----------



## markr6

I don't use any of my ZL on max. I buy them primarily for the UI and compact size. Lots of nice options to choose from as well. The most any light sees on max is the SC600w HI, since that's pretty much my "mini thrower". But even then it's usually short periods of time, as in seconds, to scan in the distance.

But if you do, PID is what's great about them. You can trust that they'll throttle down instead of those "project" lights that just get stupid hot and kill batteries in no time.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

StorminMatt said:


> Because you CAN’T. I guarantee you the light will heat up VERY fast on H1, and quickly power back as the PID does its thing.



If it's like the SC600w MkIV Plus, you have about a minute or two before it starts to ramp down. I suspect it will be in that ballpark. But, the SC700d sounds like a killer bicycle light, which is what I use the Plus for. On a cool night with the wind from cycling, I can run the Plus continuously at 2300 lumens and it doesn't ramp down. Well, until about 30 minutes, when the battery starts to die. Then it's just boom... down to low.

These bright lights, like the Plus and the HI, are just too fun not to use on max. Yeah, okay, it's totally not needed, but I didn't spend $100 on a light just to use it at 50 lumens all the time. That's like buying a Ferrari and only driving it at 10mph.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yeah, okay, it's totally not needed, but I didn't spend $100 on a light just to use it at 50 lumens all the time. That's like buying a Ferrari and only driving it at 10mph.



I seem them as a good SUV not a Ferrari. Versatile with .04lm - 3000lm and everything in between. You can use it to get groceries or do some serious off-roading.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Well, indoors, which is probably where I use the SC64w HI the most, it rarely sees much more than M1. And, similarly, when I walk with the SC600w MkIV HI, it mostly gets used at a lower medium mode. But, damn... it's fun to use it on max. I like the way it illuminates bare trees at this time of year. It makes them look like they're lit up with Christmas lights, especially after a snowfall.


----------



## markr6

ONE WEEK! maybe...


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> ONE WEEK! maybe...



Too bad Zebralight never updates their web pages. The SC64w HI still says,
_"Pre-order. Shipping Starts on Nov 23, 2018"_

But it's actually been shipping for about a month.

So, we don't really know when the SC700d will start shipping.


----------



## WmArnold1

holygeez03 said:


> Why not stick with XHP50.2 and have an SC600 IV Plus with a beam that is a better balance of throw/flood (with significantly better runtime and heat management as well)?





WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Well, we don't know yet what the beam profile will be like. With a larger reflector, but larger emitter, it could be more or less floody than the 600w Plus. IMO, I wouldn't want it more floody, as the Plus is already a big flooder.
> 
> As for heat management, it will probably be similar to the Plus. That is, not great. It will be brighter, but it also has more mass to absorb the extra heat.
> 
> The 700 is obviously aimed more as a utility light, rather than an EDC which Zebralight has mainly concentrated on. They might find it a more crowded market if they go to a larger format.



I've EDC'd my SC600 for 7 years, and I would gladly upgrade to the SC700d now, but, Zebralight didn't change the *one* thing I've pined for most often: _*less spill*_

80° spill is fine for medium and low modes, but it blinds me like a bare light bulb would at 800 LM and up

I'm going to hold-out for a 21700 size light with less spill for walking around at night

My oLight SR52ut isn't EDC'able, but its' 64° spill doesn't blind me on dark nights


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

WmArnold1 said:


> I've EDC'd my SC600 for 7 years, and I would gladly upgrade to the SC700d now, but, Zebralight didn't change the *one* thing I've pined for most often: _*less spill*_
> 
> 80° spill is fine for medium and low modes, but it blinds me like a bare light bulb would at 800 LM and up



Try the SC600w MkIV HI. It still has 80 degree spill, but it seems like a much dimmer spill.

I agree that the Plus destroys any night vision when used on a high mode. But the HI is much more useful outdoors, since you can see far without the blinding spill up close. The 600w HI is Zebralight's throwiest light, one of my favorite's outdoors. Throwy enough to be useful in the distance, but not so much that it's useless up close.


----------



## holygeez03

I will always wonder what would happen if they took everything in the SC600IV Plus and put it in a SC700 size light... maybe we will find out someday.


----------



## justanotherguy

I bit the bullet. Got one and a battery, though I did buy a 5000mah 50E to have on hand,, I figure I would like its capacity at lower outputs......really thats my interest in a 21700 light... 1000 lumens for maybe 40-50% longer than a 3500mah 18650 cell


----------



## tsask

Ive been EDcing my SC600w III HI for a couple years on a rotating holster(projects ahead hands free). While I have never used the sub settings aside from factory default levels, I really like the light. I almost upgraded last year. After seeing this new offering I'm glad I didn't. I know it means a new cell size and possibly a new charger, but I'm gonna make the move for 21700 power


----------



## markr6

Shipping week (maybe)! What a long wait...hopefully they're on track. I'll definitely be watching my email more frequently this week.


----------



## GeoBruin

markr6 said:


> Shipping week (maybe)! What a long wait...hopefully they're on track. I'll definitely be watching my email more frequently this week.


And we will be checking this thread frequently for updates!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

GeoBruin said:


> And we will be checking this thread frequently for updates!



I really hope the reviews suck, because I really don't want to have to buy another Zebralight so soon.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I really hope the reviews suck, because I really don't want to have to buy another Zebralight so soon.



LOL!! I secretly think that about 80% of the time on CPF!


----------



## Beckler

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I really hope the reviews suck, because I really don't want to have to buy another Zebralight so soon.



Well in general if that's the case, a light is more likely to be on sale then, so you will buy anyway. There is no way out.


----------



## likethevegetable

I'm gonna hold out on this one and will probably jump on the inevitable HI version when it comes out. Might be a long wait though.. a ZL thrower sounds too awesome to pass.


----------



## lampeDépêche

likethevegetable said:


> I'm gonna hold out on this one and will probably jump on the inevitable HI version when it comes out. Might be a long wait though.. a ZL thrower sounds too awesome to pass.



I don't think Cree makes a HI version of the XHP70 yet. Or the XHP50, for that matter. So it may be a few years before Cree even releases the emitter, much less ZL putting it in a light.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

lampeDépêche said:


> I don't think Cree makes a HI version of the XHP70 yet. Or the XHP50, for that matter. So it may be a few years before Cree even releases the emitter, much less ZL putting it in a light.



They make XP-L HI and XHP35 HI emitters. Which makes sense, because they're small emitters so they're better for throw. I can't see them producing an XHP70 HI, unless it's purely for tint-shift improvements.

Maybe Zebralight will stick an XHP35 HI in the SC700 format. It would make a nice thrower, but would require a different driver (and PID controller, etc). SC700 host, SC600w HI emitter and driver, updated PID, etc. Could be nice!

I'm not holding my breath, though.


----------



## radellaf

markr6 said:


> I seem them as a good SUV not a Ferrari. Versatile with .04lm - 3000lm and everything in between...



Cars don't make great analogies for flashlights. Cars are a lot more complicated and there are more design trade-offs between and econobox and a ferrari, if we stick to road performance. Not sure what an offroading flashlight would be. A supercar isn't great at 10mph. A SC700 _will_ be great at 50lm, the only compromise is the larger size, which may be an advantage, depending. That leaves cost. Which is irrelevant. I'm a flashlight nut and buying it anyway. A Ferrari is 10x the price of a Prius, but an extra $81 for fun is a lot easier for me to swing than an extra 225 kilobucks. Running it at max for the wow of it won't get me a speeding ticket, either.

SC700 page recently switched from pre-order to backorder, not sure what that means, but perhaps shipping is nigh. Next week would be lovely. I may have the office to myself Thursday, and the back part of the "office" is a warehouse area, not many shelves, maybe 100' x 25' x 20', that gets pitch black at night. Also a has nice long road with no streetlights. Much more fun than dealing with the annoying LED streetlights near the house.


----------



## justanotherguy

radellaf said:


> Cars don't make great analogies for flashlights. Cars are a lot more complicated and there are more design trade-offs between and econobox and a ferrari, if we stick to road performance. Not sure what an offroading flashlight would be. A supercar isn't great at 10mph. A SC700 _will_ be great at 50lm, the only compromise is the larger size, which may be an advantage, depending. That leaves cost. Which is irrelevant. I'm a flashlight nut and buying it anyway. A Ferrari is 10x the price of a Prius, but an extra $81 for fun is a lot easier for me to swing than an extra 225 kilobucks. Running it at max for the wow of it won't get me a speeding ticket, either.
> 
> SC700 page recently switched from pre-order to backorder, not sure what that means, but perhaps shipping is nigh. Next week would be lovely. I may have the office to myself Thursday, and the back part of the "office" is a warehouse area, not many shelves, maybe 100' x 25' x 20', that gets pitch black at night. Also a has nice long road with no streetlights. Much more fun than dealing with the annoying LED streetlights near the house.



backorder.. I hope I made the first wave


----------



## Nichia!

This is taking so long.... am tired of waiting...


----------



## markr6

I only see "pre-order". Hoping we're still on track. It was a long wait but we knew what we were getting into. Tomorrow??? Fingers crossed.

I ordered Oct 20 at 7:58 AM so that should get me on the first shipment. I wonder how many people jumped on this one?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

I wouldn't trust Zebralight's webpage much. The SC64w HI still says pre-order and shipping Nov 23, when we know it shipped well before that.

The SC64w HI was a relatively easy flashlight for them to produce: just swap the emitter of the SC64w. AFAIK, everything else is exactly the same.

The SC700d is a very different beast. Completely different host, different emitter family. Certainly different driver, PID, etc. They probably need to do everything from scratch.

Shipping tomorrow? We'll see. But don't be surprised if it's not ready yet. Their initial estimate likely has a huge margin of error, and for some stupid reason, they never update their webpage.


----------



## radellaf

markr6 said:


> I only see "pre-order". Hoping we're still on track. It was a long wait but we knew what we were getting into. Tomorrow??? Fingers crossed.
> 
> I ordered Oct 20 at 7:58 AM so that should get me on the first shipment. I wonder how many people jumped on this one?



Unless there's some caching issue it changed back to pre-order (on a different computer now). Ordered Nov 17 so who knows, and I didn't see an express shipping option. The SC64w HI page says Back Order for me. They have their web server cached from multiple servers? I've never looked at that page before.

Guess we'll see. I'm new to the ZL pre-order thing, though I've read through other threads where some had to wait a good bit (weeks?) after the first people got shipping notices.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

radellaf said:


> Guess we'll see. I'm new to the ZL pre-order thing, though I've read through other threads where some had to wait a good bit (weeks?) after the first people got shipping notices.



Based on past releases, I think they generally go FIFO with the orders, at least roughly. So, I think Mark should be one of the first to know when shipping starts.

If you opted for free shipping, then I'm not sure how your notifications will work. I go with EMS.


----------



## likethevegetable

I haven't even ordered the damn light and I'm anticipating the shipping notice from you guys.. lol. Hope you get it soon!

FWIW, I was the first person I knew of to get the H600Fc IV when it came out, ordered about a week after the release, shipped to Canada via EMS.. unfortunately that pre-order was backlogged a while.


----------



## radellaf

I don't think EMS is an option from TX to NC. I remember there being something other than free shipping available before but I didn't see it this time.

At this point I'm just interested to see if they make the date (today!) for anyone on here  That'd be the first evidence that the light actually exists.


----------



## moses

Probably a bit OT for most of you here but if they make one of these without a reflector for an even 120 degree beam spread like their headlamp, I'll be sold. Or even in a headlamp without a reflector. 

3000 lumens - that's just absolutely unimaginable when I joined CPF over a decade ago when it was still in its infancy and LEDs were just taking off. Wow!


----------



## StorminMatt

moses said:


> 3000 lumens - that's just absolutely unimaginable when I joined CPF over a decade ago when it was still in its infancy and LEDs were just taking off. Wow!



3000 lumens used to be soda can territory.


----------



## justanotherguy

D-Day...!

3000 lumens is cool ..but then length of time it runs is more important...
I showed off the D4, told him it was about 4000 lumens - for 30 seconds....'what's the point' he asked....very little I suppose...just a show off thing


----------



## markr6

justanotherguy said:


> D-Day...!
> 
> 3000 lumens is cool ..but then length of time it runs is more important...
> I showed off the D4, told him it was about 4000 lumens - for 30 seconds....'what's the point' he asked....very little I suppose...just a show off thing



Yeah, I like my D4S but still on the border of a "project light" for me. I'm looking forward to this SC700 taking over completely. If I don't get a ship notification by about 2PM, I have a feeling it will be another long wait.


----------



## justanotherguy

Well I figure since I ordered during pre-order, and the PayPal went through I am in....


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

justanotherguy said:


> Well I figure since I ordered during pre-order, and the PayPal went through I am in....



Yeah, I find it a little annoying that Zebralight takes your money when you order (during a pre-order period), not when they ship it. Though, I suppose that isn't unusual with many companies.


----------



## markr6

I don't care when they take it, unless they ever decide to close up shop and run!


----------



## radellaf

Charging the card immediately is a bit off, IMHO. Amazon charges it a few days before shipping for pre-orders. You can also cancel at any time, I'm not sure what ZL's policy is. Though, since you can always return it, IDK why they wouldn't let you cancel. In any case, obviously I don't object enough not to have placed the pre-order. Not at all worried about them closing shop before shipping.

3000-4000lm for 10-30s plus 300lm sustained is very practical. I need a normal amount of light to walk at night but sometimes might want to look further away. I don't stare into the distance with 3000lm for minutes at a time. 5 sec is generally plenty. The D4 and D4S kind of punt with the circuit design compared to ZL, but it doesn't make them "show off only" lights.

Fingers crossed for someone to get a shipping notice. Though, wouldn't want them to rush it out with bugs. I'd hope at this point the design would be solid and just production issues could hold it up.


----------



## CreeCrazy

My issue with this light is they are recommending a 4000 mah cell. You would think the advantage of going with the larger 21700 form factor is for a considerable bump in capacity vs the SC600 series. But only 4000 mah vs 3500 mah in an 18650 in a larger overall light. I’m sure someone will do testing and possibly the 5000 mah cells will work fine. If that’s the case I’d get one but until then I’ll stick with the Plus.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

CreeCrazy said:


> My issue with this light is they are recommending a 4000 mah cell. You would think the advantage of going with the larger 21700 form factor is for a considerable bump in capacity vs the SC600 series. But only 4000 mah vs 3500 mah in an 18650 in a larger overall light. I’m sure someone will do testing and possibly the 5000 mah cells will work fine. If that’s the case I’d get one but until then I’ll stick with the Plus.



I'm pretty sure it will turn out that a 5000mAh cell will be fine. It's kind of like the SC600w MkIV Plus, using either a 15A 3000mAh cell or a 10A 3500mAh cell. If you use it on turbo the entire time, a high-drain cell is probably better. But you can't really use it on turbo constantly, unless it's winter outside and you want really short run times. So essentially, a high-capacity cell is the better option. Good enough for turbo for brief periods, and perfect for long run times on moderate outputs.

The 700d will likely be pulling about 10A on turbo.


----------



## Dio

I asked ZL and apparently international orders started shipping at the start of the week. I ordered mine 10/19 so if I am waiting it seems a few others will be too


----------



## Prototype3a

I doubt a 5000mah 21700 would work. From datasheets, the 5000mah cells are really only happy around 5-7A discharge rates. The 4000, on the other hand, (IIRC) should do 20A with no complaints.

I wonder if they'll make a cell somewhere in the middle... like a 4500mah that can do 10-15A.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I'm pretty sure it will turn out that a 5000mAh cell will be fine. It's kind of like the SC600w MkIV Plus, using either a 15A 3000mAh cell or a 10A 3500mAh cell. If you use it on turbo the entire time, a high-drain cell is probably better. But you can't really use it on turbo constantly, unless it's winter outside and you want really short run times. So essentially, a high-capacity cell is the better option. Good enough for turbo for brief periods, and perfect for long run times on moderate outputs.
> 
> The 700d will likely be pulling about 10A on turbo.



I still think the 4000mAh would be best. I don't know about the voltage sag without an exact comparison, but looking at the 40T vs 48G (HKJ's comparison), squeezing the last mAh out of that cell wouldn't be as useful as it sounds on paper even at 10A. You'd have to take the cell down to 3.2v to realize any additional runtime. Again, I realize it's not a true comparison being the 48G is only 9.8A max. But even comparing at 7A it holds true.


----------



## markr6

markr6 said:


> If I don't get a ship notification by about 2PM, I have a feeling it will be another long wait.



Well....poop


----------



## radellaf

Prototype3a said:


> I doubt a 5000mah 21700 would work...really only happy around 5-7A discharge rates.



I'm sure they can take 9-10A for the minute or less I need turbo, and the rest of the time we're talking, at most, the 583 or 945 H2 modes. 5-10W isn't going to bother a cell happy at 5A (15-20W). I am curious how bad it'll be doing 5-10 minutes of turbo (including step-down at room temp). Will the cell go over 60C? I set my ZLs to the minimum PID temperature, 55 I think? Not sure how the self heating plus LED heat is going to add up. As long as it's within spec, I'll accept the same or worse runtime over 1000lm for better runtimes below. I'm just messing around, though. More interest in trying different cells than getting a bunch of whatever the best turns out to be. I don't have any military expeditions or camping trips planned, and am so over-provisioned on light and USB chargers for a power outage that it's silly. No good container for 50 gal of water or whatever you might need, less than a day of propane if that heater even works, but I have batteries and candles to see by for probably a month. And fountain pens & notebooks to record the experience 24h a day, if it doesn't get so cold the ink freezes.

Having the 4000mAh cell come with the light is great, though. I do play around with turbo-in-a-glass-of-water and such when I first get a new ZL.

4.8Ah vs 3.3Ah (high cap, actual amounts I see) is a little better increase 45% than the 33% of 4 vs 3, but either is worthy. 8-10A is kinda the worst area between the two choices. It's over-using the 5Ah cell and under-using the 4Ah. I am surprised at how badly the 5Ah cells do at only 2C (vs ~8-10A 18650s). Generally a bigger cell gives you more capacity _and_ current.


----------



## Derek Dean

Don't give up hope, Mark. The day ain't over yet : )


----------



## radellaf

Day, and the next one, over. Nobody's is in the mail? Oh well. Definitely not going to have it to play with Thu or Fri next week. Maybe next year.


----------



## CM2010

Doesn't look like Santa will be having a sack full of SC700d's to deliver.


----------



## Keitho

"Over promise, under deliver"...not this time. Behavior on this light is consistent with trying to make a 4Q2018 sales goal, and not consistent with building and maintaining a loyal customer base.


----------



## markr6

Keitho said:


> "Over promise, under deliver"...not this time. Behavior on this light is consistent with trying to make a 4Q2018 sales goal, and not consistent with building and maintaining a loyal customer base.



I never hold them to an exact day. I hope, but don't expect. If they're on the "slow boat" from china, I'm sure there's no way to guarantee it. I doubt it's a trick to hit a sales goal. Looking back over 6 year it seems they shipped weeks early or weeks late, so I can't say I'm surprised here.


----------



## Dio

Keitho said:


> ...
> Whinge
> ...
> 
> not consistent with building and maintaining a loyal customer base.



Seems you're slow to realise that nearly every ZL pre order is like this. 

Seems you also missed the part that ZL have been shipping these since early last week....read my comment from Friday..

Shame on them for not shipping any to users on this forum yet though. Maybe we should shed a few tears for those poor people who wont have another new torch for the holiday period to distract them from their mediocre lives :'(


----------



## likethevegetable

Dio said:


> Seems you're slow to realise that nearly every ZL pre order is like this.
> 
> Seems you also missed the part that ZL have been shipping these since early last week....read my comment from Friday..
> 
> Shame on them for not shipping any to users on this forum yet though. Maybe we should shed a few tears for those poor people who wont have another new torch for the holiday period to distract them from their mediocre lives :'(



Damn that hits close to home, lol.


----------



## Keitho

Dio said:


> Seems you're slow to realise that nearly every ZL pre order is like this.
> 
> Seems you also missed the part that ZL have been shipping these since early last week....read my comment from Friday..
> 
> Shame on them for not shipping any to users on this forum yet though. Maybe we should shed a few tears for those poor people who wont have another new torch for the holiday period to distract them from their mediocre lives :'(



My post was not about being surprised, whether anyone had read a brilliant and fascinating post from last week, or anoyone else's mediocre or extraordinary life. Just about ZL's behavior on this pre order. Of course it is consistent with previous pre-orders, and is probably one of the reasons that ZL has remained niche rather than growing more.


----------



## markr6

Keitho said:


> Of course it is consistent with previous pre-orders, and is probably one of the reasons that ZL has remained niche rather than growing more.



I wish they would kick it into gear. I feel like they could explode in growth by doing a few things:

- Start posting on Facebook again. A pic of a light in the manufacturing process. Sneak peak of new lights. Beam shots. Ask for customer feedback. Anything!
- Don't announce so far in advance. Maybe it's a tactic to generate hype, but I think waiting until the new lights are actually being built or their way to the US would be better.
- The spreadsheet, I'm still not sure about that. At least regarding the new announcements. I think a "product comparison" of current lights would be more useful/less confusing to new customers.
- Start posting on CPF again!!!

But that's easy for me to sit here and say that. Who knows...maybe this is just one of 5 different ventures they have going.


----------



## radellaf

Don't shed a tear for me, Dio, but you could accept that when a company lists a date, it should be on the pessimistic side. That it's not a personal tragedy to ship late doesn't mean it's good business. Also, how do you _know_ any lights have been shipped? Friends at ZL?

I'm not at all surprised but I agree, stuff like this probably does have to do with them remaining niche. Typically a niche company will do more to share what's going on over the months between a product announcement or shipping. ZL never has done that, AFAIK. They're kind of an annoying company to deal with, that way. OTOH, the lights are my favorites, despite the battery-grinding springs on some, and the CS when I have a problem with a product (rather than a request for info) has been exceptional. So, I'll keep buying them.

Without a SC700, this week will be decidedly more mediocre, though. The next two weeks don't have any particular excitement scheduled, either, so maybe it will brighten one of those.


----------



## Beckler

markr6 said:


> I wish they would kick it into gear. I feel like they could explode in growth by doing a few things:
> 
> - Start posting on Facebook again. A pic of a light in the manufacturing process. Sneak peak of new lights. Beam shots. Ask for customer feedback. Anything!
> - Don't announce so far in advance. Maybe it's a tactic to generate hype, but I think waiting until the new lights are actually being built or their way to the US would be better.
> - The spreadsheet, I'm still not sure about that. At least regarding the new announcements. I think a "product comparison" of current lights would be more useful/less confusing to new customers.
> - Start posting on CPF again!!!



Another tip would be to have a real website not some crazy awkward thing with bad image gallery that shows 1 useless picture.  Modern websites with the giant useless touch friendly features are even worse though. Too bad web designers are so clueless in general.


----------



## likethevegetable

Gotta agree with you guys about ZLs marketing: they could do a bit more when it comes to social media presence, photos of their product, maybe throw a YouTube video up, keep their clients posted about upcoming products. I really like the comparison spreadsheet and minimalist website, I think every company should aim for that... but it's kind of a silly way to let people know about an upcoming release... and it's very daunting to choose a model if you're new to ZL, but again, their customer service will definitely help you choose (they helped out with my first light from them).

But who knows, maybe they just don't have the team or they just don't care about that kind of stuff and focus on product development and production. Who am I (or we, lol) to suggest this when I'm a satisfied customer. As long as they keep designing and improving, I'll continue to support them.

As an engineer, I can appreciate their no-frills approach... if I ran a small operation I'd do the same - let the products speak for themselves. The ads from ArmyTek and Olight can be a bit over the top and sometimes make me cringe (have you seen the crap they post on reddit.com/r/flashlight??).


----------



## 18650

Keitho said:


> "Over promise, under deliver"...not this time. Behavior on this light is consistent with trying to make a 4Q2018 sales goal, and not consistent with building and maintaining a loyal customer base.


 Would that be to meet the 4Q2018 sales expected by Wall Street?


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Given Zebralight's moderately high prices, they should have good margins, but perhaps they run a leaner operation than we think. I used to buy my Zebralights from Illum in the US, but they stopped stocking any new versions a few years ago. IIRC, they said there just wasn't any profit to be made on Zebralights.

Usually, companies have to sell stuff for about half-price to retailers, so that retailers have room to make profits. I guess Zebralight doesn't offer enough of a discount to retailers. Perhaps there's not a big margin to play with, or they're only interested in selling it themselves and keeping the higher profits.

In any case, it doesn't appear they want to go big. This may be good, though. All kinds of problems can start to happen when a company gets too successful. I'd prefer they concentrate on flashaholics. I kind of like being the only freak in the neighborhood that has lights 10x as bright and twice as small as their crap mags.


----------



## markr6

_"Too [good] to fail!!"_


----------



## StorminMatt

CreeCrazy said:


> My issue with this light is they are recommending a 4000 mah cell. You would think the advantage of going with the larger 21700 form factor is for a considerable bump in capacity vs the SC600 series. But only 4000 mah vs 3500 mah in an 18650 in a larger overall light. I’m sure someone will do testing and possibly the 5000 mah cells will work fine. If that’s the case I’d get one but until then I’ll stick with the Plus.



As I said, current and/or voltage sag would only ever be an issue at 3000 lumens. And you are unlikely to be able to use this setting with ANY battery for any decent amount of time in most situations. So I think you will be FINE with the 5000mah cells for real world use. Even the highest H2 setting (1458 lumens) would be FINE with the 5000mah cells. And that’s PLENTY for most situations. Besides, the way I see things with the SC700d, longer runtime (vs 18650) is a BIGGER reason to get this light than being able to run 3000 lumens for less than a minute.


----------



## radellaf

StorminMatt said:


> Even ...(1458 lumens) … FINE with the 5000mah...longer runtime (vs 18650) is a BIGGER reason to get this light.



Apart from the cool factor of the new (to me) LED and battery size, what I'm hoping for is longer runtimes at levels the SC6x or 6xx can't sustain. That ~600 doesn't list PID is encouraging, though I wonder if that has held up through their testing.

I have a D4S that does over 3000 and it's cool, but really I'd like more around 1000lm for a useful amount of time without scorching my fingers off. The bigger body will take longer to heat up, but I wonder how much better a job it will do of dissipating heat free-standing. Better, I'm sure, and that's enough to get me interested.

Edit: Heard from ZL that my order (mid Nov) won't ship for 3-4 weeks. Cool with me, I just wanna stop looking for an email every day if it's going to be a while.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

StorminMatt said:


> Besides, the way I see things with the SC700d, longer runtime (vs 18650) is a BIGGER reason to get this light than being able to run 3000 lumens for less than a minute.



Definitely. If I get this light, it will replace the SC600w MkIV Plus I currently use for cycling. I normally use it at 700 lumens, which gets me just shy of 3 hours on a Sanyo GA 3500mAh cell. The SC700d on a 4000mAh cell would definitely not be worth the upgrade.

The 21700 cell probably has room for future improvements in capacity, whereas I think we're close to the limit with 18650. There's hasn't been much of a capacity increase in the past couple of years, so I think the research is going into larger cells like the 21700. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 6000mAh cell in the next couple of years.


----------



## StorminMatt

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Definitely. If I get this light, it will replace the SC600w MkIV Plus I currently use for cycling. I normally use it at 700 lumens, which gets me just shy of 3 hours on a Sanyo GA 3500mAh cell. The SC700d on a 4000mAh cell would definitely not be worth the upgrade.



Maybe not with 4000mah. But 5000mah would be a DEFINITE upgrade. And 700 lumens is well within the capabilities of the Samsung 50E.


----------



## markr6

So you guys saying 4000mAh is not worth it but 5000mAh is...do you really take your cells down to about 3.0v regularly? I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly asking because that's probably what it would take to realize any gains with the 5000 opposed to the 4000. I say "probably", because I don't have a direct comparison (HKJ did not test 50E yet). But with a continuous discharge of 9.6A vs 30A, I think the tradeoff is a no-brainer.

Even at a modest 3A draw, you'll get 75% of your capacity down to about 3.4v. I personally want to recharge by then or even sooner. On paper, that "extra" 1000mAh isn't always that useful, as seen with so many 18650s in the past (hence, the popularity of the 3000mAh heavy hitters)

In the cycling application, maybe squeezing every ounce of juice out makes sense. But even then, I'd rather stop for 20 seconds and swap to a fresh cell. Easier on the cells anyway.


----------



## markr6

Back to "Back Order" again...the anticipation is getting to me!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> So you guys saying 4000mAh is not worth it but 5000mAh is...do you really take your cells down to about 3.0v regularly? I'm not being snarky, I'm honestly asking because that's probably what it would take to realize any gains with the 5000 opposed to the 4000. I say "probably", because I don't have a direct comparison (HKJ did not test 50E yet). But with a continuous discharge of 9.6A vs 30A, I think the tradeoff is a no-brainer.
> 
> Even at a modest 3A draw, you'll get 75% of your capacity down to about 3.4v. I personally want to recharge by then or even sooner. On paper, that "extra" 1000mAh isn't always that useful, as seen with so many 18650s in the past (hence, the popularity of the 3000mAh heavy hitters)



When I do run-time tests (highest non-PID setting), measuring voltage, 3.4v on a typical 18650 cell is about 80% drained. Remember that the Zebralights use boost-drivers, so they suck more current from the battery as its voltage drops. Battery capacity in mAh is misleading; it's Wh that matters.

If you're interested, I've tested the run-time on a few different cell types, and here is the approximate averaged level:

4.20v 100%
4.05v 80%
3.85v 60%
3.65v 40%
3.40v 20%
2.80v 0%

So, yes, I generally want to change batteries by that time. I normally top them off after every significant use. So, I'm probably hanging around the 90% charged level most of the time. In that respect, the capacity of the battery doesn't really matter to me, most of the time.



> In the cycling application, maybe squeezing every ounce of juice out makes sense. But even then, I'd rather stop for 20 seconds and swap to a fresh cell. Easier on the cells anyway.



For cycling, I try to squeeze out about 75% of the run-time for the cell, before swapping. Swapping can be a PITA sometimes, and I need to find a decent location to do it. So, around the 2 hour mark, I start looking. At 2.5 hours, I start looking much harder. At a bit under 3 hours, the light drops down to low and then I pretty-much have to stop wherever I am, which I really don't like to do.

So, a 5000mAh cell vs. a 4000mAh cell would make quite a bit of difference. It's not just 25% more run-time, but more like 33% run-time by the time I factor out the bottom 1000mAh as a safety margin.

Going from a 3500mAh 18650 cell to a 5000mAh 21700 cell is a big improvement. Going from 3500mAh to just 4000mAh, not so much. It's something, sure, but not worth the upgrade for just that extra 500 mAh.


----------



## markr6

I'm all too familiar with zebralight jumping down to the next level if the cell can't support it, so I have no interest in the 5000mAh. Even if I don't use H1 much.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> I'm all too familiar with zebralight jumping down to the next level if the cell can't support it, so I have no interest in the 5000mAh. Even if I don't use H1 much.



I think in 6 months, we'll see a higher-drain 5000mAh cell, then everyone will be happy.


----------



## Derek Dean

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I think in 6 months, we'll see a higher-drain 5000mAh cell, then everyone will be happy.


I like that kind of positive thinking : )


----------



## SubLGT

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I think in 6 months, we'll see a higher-drain 5000mAh cell, then everyone will be happy.



Maybe. Right now, the pre-production Samsung 21700 50E2 can deliver 4400mAh at 10A, and 5050mAh at 1A. 

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...50e2-9-8a-4900mah-21700-great-battery.887711/



> This Samsung 50E2 outperforms the (earlier) Samsung 50E, the Samsung 48G, and the LG M50 samples I recently purchased (more about the M50 later). I do not know when the 50E2 will be available for sale or who will carry it but I hope it is soon.
> 
> I am rating the Samsung 50E2 at 10A/30W and 4900mAh. I will be retesting these again when they reach full production.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Just based on volume, a 21700 should be able to provide 47% more capacity than a 18500. We have 10A 3500mAh 18650 cells now. We should have a 10A 5100mAh 21700 cell. There might be a slight issue getting heat out of the larger cell, but that doesn't matter for a couple of minutes burst.


----------



## CelticCross74

I love the look of the new SX700D but cannot stand XHP70 emitters. There is a XHP35.2 now correct? A new SC700D in COOL WHITE in XHP35.2HI would be awesome.


----------



## StorminMatt

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I think in 6 months, we'll see a higher-drain 5000mAh cell, then everyone will be happy.



We already have the Sanyo NCR21700A, which is a 5000mah 15A cell. It is available from Vapcell. However, it is more expensive. And it has a recessed top, which may make it unusable in this light. However, the fact that this cell exists shows that higher current IS possible from a 5000mah cell.

Another thing to consider is that the NCR18650GA is also a 10A cell, but is smaller and has a lower capacity. This suggests that current could be higher than it is. It is also likely that Samsung is using the same chemistry for this cell that they use for their 3500mah INR18650-35E, which is only an 8A cell.


----------



## StorminMatt

** Deleted **


----------



## SubLGT

The Samsung INR21700-40T cell that ZL is selling will soon be seeing some stiff competition from the Molicel P42A 21700 cell:

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...mah-21700-great-30a-battery-beats-40t.884615/



> ...This is a great performing 21700 which hits harder and runs for longer than the Samsung 40T. It even competes with the Samsung 30T at 30A. The 30T hits harder for about the first third of the discharge but then the P42A holds its voltage up better and hits harder for the rest of the discharge....
> 
> ...The datasheet lists the minimum capacity at 4000mAh. The four P42A’s I tested delivered 4168mAh - 4182mAh at 800mA (0.2C) down to 2.5V. This is amazing consistency and they all easily meet their minimum capacity rating...
> 
> ...Moli and NPE sent me several of these cells for testing.........they hope to ship them to the rewrapping companies by the first quarter of 2019..... As of now, Moli won’t be making this cell directly available to us in its original wrapper due to existing agreements.



https://www.npecell.com/product/21700/


----------



## markr6

Thanks for the info on that cell, I haven't seen that yet.

But I really just want my SC700d!!!!


----------



## radellaf

CelticCross74 said:


> I love the look of the new SX700D but cannot stand XHP70 emitters. There is a XHP35.2 now correct? A new SC700D in COOL WHITE in XHP35.2HI would be awesome.



Eeew, a cool white throwy ZL :thinking: 

I mean, sure, why not... but for me the NW is cooler than I'd like, and the XHP70 is the _whole point_ of the light and the only reason they made a bigger reflector. The battery being the new size is a bonus. They have a bunch of other XHP35 lights, I have a few, so that emitter is covered. For me, anyway.




markr6 said:


> But I really just want my SC700d!



Yeah, as much as I'm cool with them maybe avoiding problems by waiting (or maybe there's no way it could have shipped earlier), it does suck that it's a whole month late. For my Nov order anyway, I didn't ask if mid Oct orders would ship earlier. That they probably knew it would be a couple weeks ago (just guessing) and didn't say anything doesn't thrill me either.

Plenty of other new toys to play with from black Friday, though.


----------



## Derek Dean

Order shipped : )


----------



## markr6

SHIPPED!!!!!!!! So they missed the shipping date by about five days. I’ll let that one slide


----------



## twistedraven

Cool white means less aggressive application of phosphor meaning less ugly green tint shift within the beam. If only Zebralight could just shave the dome on the high cri emitters in house, then the beam would end up looking pretty decent.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

twistedraven said:


> Cool white means less aggressive application of phosphor meaning less ugly green tint shift within the beam.



Not really. It depends whether the tint is above or below the black body line. My greenest Zebralight is actually a cool-white SC52. My neutral SC52w is less green, though it still has a green/yellow corona. IMO, Zebralight has improved their tints a lot since I got those five years ago.

I'm really looking forward to the review of the SC700d, especially its tint. I don't expect perfect with a domed Cree, but I'm hoping for something mostly okay, like my SC600w MkIV Plus.


----------



## twistedraven

The tint binning on Cree LEDs only determines what their overall tint is, so they can still have a green corona and very pink spill even if they are binned to be below the BBL. With something like the XHP70.2 in a shallow reflector, you will get quite a lot of the output in the corona and spill. Without reflectors, these LEDs output light that looks fine, but the interaction with the reflector makes for aberrations in the beam.

What makes the XHP50.2 and XHP70.2 so infamous with regards to bad beam quality is the usage or the phosphor beyond the dome, which was proven on BLF to lead to very green coronas. The higher the CCT, the less aggressive the amount of phosphor used over the LED. Vinh has said that from experience he tends to find the higher CCTs for the XHP70.2s to have less green coronas overall.

Getting the XHP70.2s to be binned below BBL and shaving their dome to reduce any tint transition throughout the beam has shown to produce good results. Maukka has a 5000k XHP70.2 that's high cri and looks pretty good.


The other option is to go with multiple optics and high cri emitters, such as what Emisar does with the D4 and D4S, and Fireflies with the ROT66 and E07. SST20 high cri variants and 219B R9080 are exceptionally good.


----------



## justanotherguy

twistedraven said:


> The tint binning on Cree LEDs only determines what their overall tint is, so they can still have a green corona and very pink spill even if they are binned to be below the BBL. With something like the XHP70.2 in a shallow reflector, you will get quite a lot of the output in the corona and spill. Without reflectors, these LEDs output light that looks fine, but the interaction with the reflector makes for aberrations in the beam.
> 
> What makes the XHP50.2 and XHP70.2 so infamous with regards to bad beam quality is the usage or the phosphor beyond the dome, which was proven on BLF to lead to very green coronas. The higher the CCT, the less aggressive the amount of phosphor used over the LED. Vinh has said that from experience he tends to find the higher CCTs for the XHP70.2s to have less green coronas overall.
> 
> Getting the XHP70.2s to be binned below BBL and shaving their dome to reduce any tint transition throughout the beam has shown to produce good results. Maukka has a 5000k XHP70.2 that's high cri and looks pretty good.
> 
> 
> The other option is to go with multiple optics and high cri emitters, such as what Emisar does with the D4 and D4S, and Fireflies with the ROT66 and E07. SST20 high cri variants and 219B R9080 are exceptionally good.



This sort of post is why I hang around you guys !


----------



## justanotherguy

Derek Dean said:


> Order shipped : )



Did you get an email notification... or was that order status on the site..?


----------



## markr6

Well, I’ll know Saturday or Monday if USPS stops effing up half my deliveries.

Got the email. Label printed so in the mail tomorrow, possibly tonight if their pickup was later in the evening


----------



## wimmer21

Judging by the beam from my sc600w with xhp35 Hi... I expect this new offering will be extremely floody. Buyers should not be expecting to get much throw from this light. Should be impressive at ranges up to approximately 25 yards or so though.


----------



## low

wimmer21 said:


> Should be impressive at ranges up to approximately 25 yards or so though.




I am going to guess 100 yds.


----------



## Derek Dean

justanotherguy said:


> Did you get an email notification... or was that order status on the site..?



E-mail notification. I pre-ordered the first day.


----------



## markr6

_A shipping label has been prepared for your item at 4:41 pm on December 20, 2018 in IRVING, TX 75038. This does not indicate receipt by the USPS or the actual mailing date. 
_
So it could very well just be a label sitting on a counter for days or weeks, technically. No updates since Thursday.


----------



## burntoshine

burntoshine said:


> What about a Pila IBC charger?
> 
> I'm assuming it won't work because an 18650 is as big (long) as the ports get. And 21700 are longer than 18650s, yes?





WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yeah, that charger won't be any good for the longer 21700 cells. There are many recent chargers that do support 21700's, but they're still going to be a very tight fit in most of them. Protected button-top 18650's are almost as long as a flat-top unprotected 21700. If you have a charger that easily fits a protected 18650, then it will probably work for a 21700.





ProblemChild said:


> 21700's are longer than 1860's. I have a Xtar Dragon VP4 that will fit a 21700 snug. The main issue is, obviously, that you dont destroy your battery wrappers trying to get the battery out of the charger.



Thanks for the responses! I meant to get back here, but I've been super busy and forgetful lately..

EDIT: So according to my calipers, the PILA charger is indeed too short.

Can anyone recommend a good charger that will charge 21700s, 18650s and 123s?

Thanks!


----------



## noboneshotdog

burntoshine said:


> Thanks for the responses! I meant to get back here, but I've been super busy and forgetful lately..
> 
> EDIT: So according to my calipers, the PILA charger is indeed too short.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good charger that will charge 21700s, 18650s and 123s?
> 
> Thanks!



The new Nitecore UMS4, UMS2, UM4, UM2, are supposed have the largest openings for 21700 batteries. And it charges all batteries intelligently. I have one waiting under the tree this Christmas.


----------



## justanotherguy

of those 4...One offers 4 x 1 amp per slot charge?
pass


----------



## noboneshotdog

justanotherguy said:


> of those 4...One offers 4 x 1 amp per slot charge?
> pass



Other suggestions?


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 said:


> _A shipping label has been prepared for your item at *4:41 pm* on December 20, 2018 in IRVING, TX 75038. This does not indicate receipt by the USPS or the actual mailing date.
> _
> So it could very well just be a label sitting on a counter for days or weeks, technically. No updates since Thursday.


_"A shipping label has been prepared for your item at *4:33 pm* on December 20, 2018 in IRVING, TX 75038. This does not indicate receipt by the USPS or the actual mailing date." 

markr6, _does this mean I'll get my light 8 minutes before you :devil:

But seriously, it is a tiny bit weird to get the shipping notification, but no follow up indicating that the USPS has actually received the lights. It could very well be that they knew they had missed the original Dec. 14th shipping estimate, so they wanted to at least let us know shipping was imminent, but not quite ready...... kind of like how when you're in baggage claim waiting for your luggage and it's taking a long time, and finally they turn on the flashing lights and start the carousel, but it still takes awhile for the luggage to begin coming out.

Or, it could be that they're just messing with our heads 

Ha, well...... it will happen when it happens. Fortunately, I've got plenty of other Zebras to keep me happy till then.


----------



## insanefred

markr6 said:


> _A shipping label has been prepared for your item at 4:41 pm on December 20, 2018 in IRVING, TX 75038. This does not indicate receipt by the USPS or the actual mailing date.
> _
> So it could very well just be a label sitting on a counter for days or weeks, technically. No updates since Thursday.




Youpackagewillbestuckthereforafewweeks.


----------



## justanotherguy

noboneshotdog said:


> Other suggestions?


Miboxer c4-12 4x3amp !


----------



## noboneshotdog

justanotherguy said:


> Miboxer c4-12 4x3amp !



:thumbsup: Good to know.


----------



## radellaf

noboneshotdog said:


> Other suggestions?



The pricey but good SkyRC MC3000 can do 50W charge, so at least 4x2A, maybe 4x3A until they're actually at 4.2V. You really going to be charging four 21700 at the same time? Sure there are cheaper that will do 2x2A. Lygte liked the C4-12, I'm not sure if I trust $30 off brand chargers, but his reviews are usually solid. 4x18650 reach almost 50C but I'm not sure if the MC3000 runs any cooler.

Wish one of youze would get the SC700 to take some photos of it, even if I have to wait until mid or late Jan for mine. ZL is allergic to cameras, so all we've had is that one photo on their website. Grumble.



low said:


> I am going to guess 100 yds.


Even if it is only 25 yards, there's not much to see around here that's further than 100ft except maybe the tops of trees. Guess I could go out to the main road, but that has streetlights. Really, I don't need a flashlight except to find the bathroom in the middle of the night with the power out.


----------



## SubLGT

burntoshine said:


> ...Can anyone recommend a good charger that will charge 21700s, 18650s and 123s?
> 
> Thanks!



Lots of chargers listed here, with max battery lengths specified:

https://lygte-info.dk/info/roundCellChargerIndex UK.html


----------



## ven

justanotherguy said:


> Miboxer c4-12 4x3amp !



Its very good , but be aware of weak bay springs. I have had 2 snap but it’s an easy repair/fix. Still an awesome charger, but as with many others, suffers from sub par internals. 
Found a pic, snap at the slider end, post end is fine. Just needs re-making basically but still not very good. Actually got a spring kit and replaced one of the springs for a little more beefed up one.





Hope everyone's ZL ships soon, exciting times!


----------



## StorminMatt

burntoshine said:


> Can anyone recommend a good charger that will charge 21700s, 18650s and 123s?



I actually bought a couple of 21700s in anticipation of this light, and have tried them in a few Xtar chargers I have. The best fit is the SV2 Rocket. The VP2 is okay, but is a little tighter than the SV2. The cells still fit in the VC2 Plus Master and VC4, but are tighter than the VP2. Of the two VC Series chargers, the VC4 is the tighter fit.


----------



## Prototype3a

I wish Nitecore's SC4 had longer slots. :-/

I'm thinking I may go for a Xtar SV2 Rocket for my 21700 and 26650 charging needs and maybe also get a Nitecore SC4 for all my wife's AA and AAA charging needs.


----------



## Boro

My 6330 is a remarkable Zebra, but this model is just as remarkable with better tint and much brighter! The beam pattern is a perfect mix of flood and throw, hope everyone enjoys theirs as much as I do mine!


----------



## justanotherguy

Boro said:


> My 6330 is a remarkable Zebra, but this model is just as remarkable with better tint and much brighter! The beam pattern is a perfect mix of flood and throw, hope everyone enjoys theirs as much as I do mine!



Someone is floating a 6330 on ebay right now.. I cant afford it though.
sc700 pics up on another forum. BLF


----------



## likethevegetable

Here are the pics: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/63213


----------



## markr6

I like it!! I sure hope mine arrives next week.


----------



## likethevegetable

markr6 said:


> I like it!! I sure hope mine arrives next week.



I do too! I'm anxious for more info!

The owner said this about their sample:



> _Much more of a thrower than I thought it would be. Orange peel works._
> 
> _Tests will tell but it sure appears to hold brightness well._
> 
> _Anodizing color much closer to my earlier Zebralights. (less dark)_
> 
> _Tint__ is such __an personal__ preference, yet for me (WW aficionado) neutral in the right way._



I've always wondered what colour of ano ZebraLight strives for. I suspect the chemical, alloy, voltage, and length of time affects the colour and thickness, but I would imagine ZL controls most of these variable fairly well. Either way, I've learned to appreciate the many shades.


----------



## Cpl S

Boro....."The size of the light is fine, it is the beam quality and maintaining brightness which is remarkable, I think the tests will prove it is a next level light ."

That's got me excited. I hope this light lives up to the above statement.


----------



## wimmer21

low said:


> I am going to guess 100 yds.



Possible. I'm sure it'll throw light well beyond 25 yards just won't be very bright at distance. Great light though I'm sure.


----------



## likethevegetable

Found some more pics here from a quick Google search:
http://shoudian.xiaoyun.com/m/post/1422260

Damn, that head is thicc.


----------



## Connor

likethevegetable said:


> Damn, that head is thicc.



Don't worry, that pic is heavily distorted.


----------



## Derek Dean

SC700d arrived a little while ago, battery charging :santa:
It's raining right now, but be assured, I'll brave the elements to get at least a few beam shots tonight 

Left to right, both photos:
ZL SC600 custom triple Nichia by DatiLED, SC62w, SC700d, SC600w Mk IV+, SC52w, SC600w


----------



## Mr. LED

Connor said:


> Don't worry, that pic is heavily distorted.



It IS thick haha!


----------



## NPL

That's a nice looking flashlight!


----------



## noboneshotdog

How is the tint and beam profile indoors. Floody? Throwy? Good tint?

Thanks and Merry Christmas!


----------



## twistedraven

That's a very heavy magenta filter on the SC600W.


----------



## Derek Dean

Thanks, I can't wait to try it outside. It feels great in the hand, although it is taking a bit to get used to the increased size of the head, which is proportionally different from the SC600 series. With the SC600 lights, the head isn't really that noticeable when you're holding it, but this head is noticeable... not bad, just different. 

I just tried putting the SC700d in the pocket of the pants I wear to work every night (I use my SC600 EVERY night at work), and it fits fine. My pants are Dockers Relaxed fit, so maybe the pockets are a bit bigger, but I'm not seeing a problem at all.

Having said that, I will say that I have noticed two issues so far:

First, the clip they are using appears to be exactly the same clip as was used for the SC600 Mk IV+, and because of the increased body diameter of the SC700d, the clip ends don't extend quite as far around the body of the light. It still feels reasonable snug, but I'm wondering how that will feel after it's loosened up a bit. 

Second, when I first undid the tailcap, it felt really nice and smooth, however, that turns out to be because there was an excess of lube on the threads, which, as you will see in one of the photos below, has gotten down into the tailcap and will need to be cleaned. 

Both are VERY minor issues. Mainly, just make sure you check your light and clean off any excess lube before using. 

Battery still charging. Here are a few more photos to hold you until I can get some beam shots .



















Battery-Tube-Inside


----------



## Derek Dean

Before we get to the beamshots, I'm happy to report that the minimum level of the SC700d is indeed VERY low. My SC62w is my benchmark light, as it's lowest level is so low that I actually find it useless for any purpose, but I LOVE that it will go that low. I use the 2nd lowest level of that light a few times every night for going to the bathroom, and it's perfect for that purpose, giving me just enough light to see shapes and forms, but not so much as to interfere with me going back to sleep quickly. 

The lowest level of the SC700d is a bit brighter than the lowest level of the SC62w, but not quite as bright as the 2nd lowest level, so it's perfect as far as I'm concerned. 

I like that it has both a VERY dim locator pulse AND a VERY bright locator pulse. Very nice. I also think the slow strobe would be very good for cyclists, as it will certainly get a drivers attention. 

Okie dokie, let's get to the meat of the matter..... Beam shots. For this first set I had my camera on full manual: ISO 3200, f4.0, 1/60 sec, manual focus, White Balance set to Daylight. I shot these to photos to show the relative brightness and beam pattern between the ZL SC600w MkIV+ and the ZL SC700d. Both had fully charged batteries which got 4 blinks from each light's internal battery testing circuit, and each light was set at maximum brightness. 

It was 45 long paces (approx 135 feet) from my position to very back of the courtyard. That first bush you see in the middle is about 1/2 way (I'm using a 24mm wide angle lens). These photos do a good job of showing what I saw.

Control Image, Ambient Lighting




SC600w MkIV+, Full Power





SC700d, Full Power




In the photos, and in real life, the SC700d appears to me to be quite a bit brighter (more than I would have expected). It's got that same large central hotspot and bright spill that I found so appealing in the beam of the SC600w MkIV+. Excellent. 

This second set also had the camera in full manual: ISO 3200, f5.0, 1/80 sec, White Balance set to Daylight.

SC600w MkIV+ 




SC700d




It's clear that the SC600w MkIV+ has a bit of a warmish cast, while the SC700 renders colors much cleaner...... at least in the photos. Tint is so subjective though, and to me the SC700d has a bit of a green/cyan cast, and I will probably end up placing some type of magenta filter over it. Of course that's not unusual for me, as every light I have has been filtered in one way of another (I did take the filter off my SC600w MkIV+ for the photos in this post). 

So, while this is only a first impression, it's already clear to me that this light is a keeper and I'm extremely pleased with it's performance tonight. I'll look forward to hearing what everybody else has to say when they get theirs, and to hear what kind of measurements others get who are more inclined to that type of testing. 

There you go. Happy Holidays!


----------



## radellaf

I'm in love already. And hungry for sausage & pepper rigatoni...

A current measurement can be hard, but how long can it run on high before it starts getting too hot to hold? I love my Emisar D4S, but after about a minute I'm having to scooch my thumb away from the head.


----------



## Derek Dean

I wrapped my hand around the entire head (fins), and after two minutes on high I had to move my had down to the body, and after 5 minutes it was starting to get pretty warm, but still holdable. I quit at that point because I'd been messing with it all day and needed to eat dinner, ha. 

By the way, at the same time, I did the same test with the SC600w MkIV+ (in my other hand), and got pretty much the same results, except after 5 minutes the SC700d was a bit cooler than the SC600w MkIV+. 

They both stayed bright too.... maybe they were throttling down (it was inside my apartment), but I never saw any noticeable change in brightness from either light.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention, that stuff in the tailcap that I thought was excess lube turned out to be more of a rubbery compound, like something they used to glue part of the tailcap into place. It wasn't hard to remove, and it certainly doesn't bother me, but thought I'd mention it for those that are interested in such things.


----------



## Mr. LED

Awesome pictures and details, thank you. And Merry Christmas?

How would you compare the throw between the SC700d and the SC600 IV+? Or maybe if you have the SC600 IV HI to compare also.


----------



## torchsarecool

Great pics. Looks a very nice light. Although while emisar are producing the d4s with sst20 hcri I don't know if I would stretch the extra money. I think the zebralight has a better beam pattern though and no doubt it's better quality


----------



## noboneshotdog

Thanks for the pics. The 700 looks to have a fairly nice tint. Seems less green/yellow than the 600 on the indoor beam shots. I'm wanting a new 21700 light and this may be the winner. :twothumbs


----------



## StorminMatt

I actually got a package today from Zebralight. I was a bit perplexed, as I had not yet gotten a shipping notice. I figured that maybe they forgot to send one. But then I noticed the box - it said SC600Fc. Turns out, my GF got me this light for Christmas and had it shipped to me! In one way, I’m kind of disappointed that I didn’t get my SC700d. But the SC600Fc was certainly a REALLY nice surprise. The tint is about as nice as I have EVER seen. FAR better than my 4000K 219C lights! I know the SC700d is 5000K rather than 4000K. But if the tint on the SC700d as half as nice as that SC600Fc, I will be MORE than happy. Yes, my SC600Fc is really THAT good!


----------



## markr6

I hate when sellers print a label and just leave it like that for days. They may not even have the product in stock. They can take my money months before. They can give an ETA and hit it or not. But this is where I start getting irritated.


----------



## likethevegetable

Merry Christmas, fellow flashlight geeks!

Nice to see Santa came early, Derek. Happy to hear that you're enjoying it. Photos look awesome, it must be quite impressive if it's that much brighter than the SC600w IV Plus, and the CRI looks great too... Mmmmm... Tabasco...


----------



## Derek Dean

noboneshotdog said:


> Thanks for the pics. The 700 looks to have a fairly nice tint. Seems less green/yellow than the 600 on the indoor beam shots. I'm wanting a new 21700 light and this may be the winner. :twothumbs



I will say, I've ended up placing a 1/2 minus green filter on the front, and having done so, the tint is nearly perfect, so now I'm able to really appreciate the HICRI nature of the light. Seriously beautiful light coming out now, although the spill is still a bit cooler than the central beam and the corona is bit warmer, but only noticeable with white wall hunting. 

It was raining all last night, but hopefully I'll be able to get out and take it for a nice long walk tonight and get a few photos of it in action. I'll also take along the SC600 MkIV+ for a throw comparison .


----------



## markr6

Thanks for the info Derek. I can't wait to get this! 5 business days in and nothing more than a label printed.


----------



## t76turbo

At least you got a printed label. I keep looking at my order on their site and it just says 'New' as order status. 

I really thought I got in early enough for the first round of shipping. Otherwise I would have just waited till one of my vendors I frequent had them instock.


----------



## P220C

Derek, thanks for the beam shots. They look great!

If one were ordered today, does anybody have an idea of expected delivery for the current batch of back orders?


----------



## markr6

t76turbo said:


> At least you got a printed label. I keep looking at my order on their site and it just says 'New' as order status.
> 
> I really thought I got in early enough for the first round of shipping. Otherwise I would have just waited till one of my vendors I frequent had them instock.



Ah here it is! It's already at the post office down the street. So I guess the tracking updates just took a holiday as well. I think it's too late to get into the truck, so I'll have it tomorrow instead.


----------



## wimmer21

I'd like to see some hotspot comparison pics.


----------



## GeoBruin

wimmer21 said:


> I'd like to see some hotspot comparison pics.


Yes, I'd be especially interested if someone has a lux meter reading. I know... I'm spoiled... but this is an "enthusiast" forum after all


----------



## Connor

I'd like to see a whitewall beamshot since there are so many complaints about the XHP70.2 potentially being aweful and rainbow-like. :tinfoil:


----------



## twistedraven

How hard is the Zebralight lens to take off to put the filter behind it?


----------



## low

Derek Dean said:


> It was raining all last night, but hopefully I'll be able to get out and take it for a nice long walk tonight and get a few photos of it in action. I'll also take along the SC600 MkIV+ for a throw comparison .




I would love to see some before and after filters used to see just how good it gets. It just might turn me into a filterer of flashlights.


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6, I'm sure happy to hear you'll be getting your light soon, and I'll be very interested to hear your first impressions. 



low said:


> I would love to see some before and after filters used to see just how good it gets. It just might turn me into a filterer of flashlights.



I had a feeling somebody would want to see that, but it's important to understand that these photos don't represent what I'm seeing in real life, only what the camera is seeing as "daylight" balanced. 

SC700d No Filter (It looks pretty good here, but honestly, in real life it's seems much more green, or maybe it's just me)


SC700d-NO-FILTER 

SC700d with 1/2 minus green filter (looks a bit pinkish here, but in real life it's almost perfect, at least to me)


SC700d 1/2 minus green filter 

I used a professional white balance tool on this photo and it looks pretty good to me. This is what I see in real life when I shine the SC700d with the 1/2 minus green filter on it.


SC700d-ACR-White-Balance-Corrected 

Here are some photos I took out at the Lake last night, just to give a bit more illustration of the differences between the SC600w MkIV+ and SC700d. These are pretty close to what I saw in real life, although the SC600w MKIV+ doesn't really appear that warm. Camera settings were all manual and fixed the same for all 3 photos. ISO 6400, 1/60th second, f4.0, WB Daylight. Both lights were unfiltered for these photos.

I had the lights on a light stand that was on a slight hill, which is why it's leaning. The lights were aimed straight ahead for maximum throw. 

Control Image, Ambient Lighting


Control-(Lake) 

SC600w MkIV+ 


SC600w-MkIV+.(Lake)

SC700d


SC700d-(Lake) 

And just for fun, here is a closeup shot of the SC700d LED turned on to it's lowest setting:


SC700d-LED-LIT


----------



## sp5it

As expected, ugly tintshift.
Mike


----------



## NPL

Hi Derek, thanks for the feedback and photos. Between the 4500k 80 CRI plus and 5000k 90cri sc700d, which colour temperature do you prefer and do you notice the better color rendering due to CRI (as opposed to CCT)? Would you have preferred the sc700d in 4500k or 4000k if it was available?


----------



## radellaf

I don't see any ugly tint on the lake, courtyard, or cabinet shots. I'm not going to conclude anything from the reflector shot.

If it's any better than my SC53c I'll be happy enough. Even that one is fine past about 30 ft. Horrible for white walls at 15 ft though.


----------



## Derek Dean

NPL said:


> Hi Derek, thanks for the feedback and photos. Between the 4500k 80 CRI plus and 5000k 90cri sc700d, which colour temperature do you prefer and do you notice the better color rendering due to CRI (as opposed to CCT)? Would you have preferred the sc700d in 4500k or 4000k if it was available?


For me, color temperature and tint are equally important. I found both lights, the SC600w MkIV+ and the SC700d, to have *equally* ugly green/cyanish tints when I received them, so the difference between the color temperature and CRI in those lights really didn't come into play at that point. 

Of course, I've come to expect this with most LED lights and it doesn't bother me one whit because I learned a long time ago how easy it is to adjust the color of the light with filters, and once filtered, I've found both lights quite pleasing.

However, once filtered, to my eyes, the SC700d, with it's higher CRI, definitely renders colors more accurately, which I find VERY pleasing. I was expecting this, and it's one of the reasons I decided to order this light (along with the increased output, 21700 battery, and extremely low moonlight level). 

Would I have preferred the SC700d with a color temperature of 4500k or 4000k? Not necessarily. At this point I'm more interested in having an LED with a High CRI rating, then I'll simply filter it to get the color temperature and tint the way I want it.

I'm super pleased with the SC700d. It's everything I had hoped it would be. 

Once thing I'd like to stress, however, is that the increase in size and weight really are noticeable. The head on this thing is BIG. Just something to consider if you found the SC600 series daunting for pocket carry. Personally, I never had any issues with the SC600 for pocket carry, and the SC700d won't bother me either, but the increased size of the SC700d might put some folks off. 

The great thing is that the SC600 series offers some great lights that come very close to matching the level of output from the SC700d, but in a much more modest and pocket friendly size.


----------



## Derek Dean

radellaf said:


> I don't see any ugly tint on the lake, courtyard, or cabinet shots. I'm not going to conclude anything from the reflector shot.
> 
> If it's any better than my SC53c I'll be happy enough. Even that one is fine past about 30 ft. Horrible for white walls at 15 ft though.


Yes, please don't infer anything from the LIT LED shot. That was just for fun. 

And yes, looking at a white wall, the spill is slightly cooler than the central area, but in use, totally unnoticeable. However, everybody has different things that bug them. Personally, not a big deal for me at all.

Edit: Please remember that tint preference is a HIGHLY personal subject. I don't like ANY green in my tint, while other folks find a bit of green pleasing and useful for outdoor uses. I think many folks would find the tint on my light just fine that way it is, I simply happen to be a bit weird about it : )

I'm really looking forward to hearing reviews from other folks.


----------



## NPL

Thanks for the feedback. How did you attach the filter to the light? Zebralight needs to make an sc600c/d plus without the frosted lens.


----------



## twistedraven

Love the Lee Zircon Filters! I got a minus quarter green on my ROT66 SST20 95 cri, and it's simply the best color rendering light I've come across, nothing is close.


----------



## NPL

I put one over my sc5c ii and the tint and color rendering is now perfect! Thanks for the recommendation twistedraven.


----------



## Derek Dean

NPL said:


> How did you attach the filter to the light?


Tiny piece of double sided tape smack dab in the middle. Doesn't affect the beam as far as I can tell, and it's easy to change if I ever feel the need.


----------



## likethevegetable

How good is the optical efficiency on these Lee filters? I'm considering one for my H53Fc, but with the max at only 280 lumens, I wouldn't want to compromise the output too much. I'm thinking the minus green 803 or 804 would do the trick.


----------



## Derek Dean

likethevegetable said:


> How good is the optical efficiency on these Lee filters? I'm considering one for my H53Fc, but with the max at only 280 lumens, I wouldn't want to compromise the output too much. I'm thinking the minus green 803 or 804 would do the trick.


You are filtering out light (Green in my case), so yes, there is a drop in output corresponding to how much correction is applied. 

For a high power light like the SC700d this is negligible, but it could be a consideration for a lower power light. However, as far as I'm concerned, it's more about the quality of the light rather than the quantity. Heck, I just got a McGizmo Sapphire AAA key ring light that is only around 5 lumens. The tint was a bit too cyan for my taste, so I filtered it with a "Pale Rose" filter and voila, it's now simply perfect. Yes, I lost perhaps half a lumen or so, so maybe 5-10% of the output, but it was worth it to me to end up with a light that now pleases me every time I use it.

It looks like Lee's new Zircon filters are made specifically for LEDs. I need to check into those.


----------



## ven

Nicely put Derek, quality over quantaty any day(or night) for me as well.


----------



## markr6

Out for delivery! Curious to see this "ugly tintshift" for myself because I don't see it in the photos.


----------



## ven

markr6 said:


> Out for delivery! Curious to see this "ugly tintshift" for myself because I don't see it in the photos.






I am super excited for you, but i also know ..................well i will be super impressed if you like it , or its a keeper. I too have been on the fence with anything .2 . Too a point i dont own any! I know some have got some nice samples out there, but it seems to 50/50 at best getting a good one. Its a lot of bucks and then a pita to return, of a slim chance of an acceptable tint. So i await for more opinions as there will be a few lemons out there. I do love the look though, that appeals, a little beefy ZL................be an awesome dog walking light for sure. Lots of punch with broad spill..................just that darn tint loto. 

Good luck, fingers crossed. Surely your due a ZL that is right of the bat for a change mark.


----------



## ven

Too add on Dereks pics to what he actually sees, i would be happy and it would be a keeper.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

ven said:


> I am super excited for you, but i also know ..................well i will be super impressed if you like it , or its a keeper. I too have been on the fence with anything .2 . Too a point i dont own any! I know some have got some nice samples out there, but it seems to 50/50 at best getting a good one. Its a lot of bucks and then a pita to return, of a slim chance of an acceptable tint. So i await for more opinions as there will be a few lemons out there. I do love the look though, that appeals, a little beefy ZL................be an awesome dog walking light for sure. Lots of punch with broad spill..................just that darn tint loto.



The SC600w MkIV Plus, with its XHP50.2 isn't too bad. Here's a white-wall shot of mine.









Not perfect, but very acceptable for outdoor use, and indoors if you're not looking for high CRI and perfect tint.

If the SC700d is better than that, it would really suck. Because, that might mean I'll have to buy it too.


----------



## ven

Yes that looks a good sample , would be happy with that. I am still on the last gen xhp50, of which i have a few, mkIII is nice and 5000k, H2r lamps are near 4000k and both are super nice.


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 pointed out that I hadn't mentioned about the anodizing, which, at least on my light, is the older, lighter, somewhat green style, and it's flawless. Personally, I tend to like this lighter color a bit better, but to be honest I thought the dark gray was lovely as well. 

I also forgot to mention about the electronic switch. For me it's just right, with enough tactile response to let me know when I've hit it, but not too hard, and most importantly, compared to the SC600 MkIV+, they seem to have raised the center "dot" a bit (or has the one on my SC600 MkIV+ worn down), which makes it much easier to activate when wearing thick gloves. Very nice.


----------



## markr6

Mine was just delivered! I really hope it's the darker gray; I always hated the olive green and that was the reason why I never got into Zebralights until years after I learned about them. Purely aesthetics of course, but the inconsistency drove me crazy...they fixed it...now possibly back to various colors?


----------



## markr6

Ahhhh!!! This anodizing is NASTY. If you have kids, you probably remember what their puke looked like after peas and spinach baby food. This thing is almost brown. Again, I HATE the inconsistency; all my other Zebralights match perfect since ~2012.

Otherwise, tint and output look good. Nice ZL quality as usual. I'm gonna have to let this one go. It may sound crazy, but I am exactly that. ZL is gonna get pissed at another return, so I guess I'll sell online.






For comparison with the dark gray (I don't have any ZLs with me right now)





p.s. oh heck I don't know. It's such a nice light maybe I should keep it. 21700 fits fine in the Xtar VC2 Plus (only charger I have with me right now). I sure wish it was the dark gray color. Maybe this was a fluke...I can try another later on?


----------



## Derek Dean

Well, we all have things that bug us. I always found the lighter color to be a refreshing change from all the other black flashlights out there, and in particular, I've always appreciated the quality of Zebralight's anodizing, as even my oldest lights still looks like new, and they get used and abused on a regular basis. 

I hope that after you get over your disappointment with the color of the anodizing that you'll take a few minutes to check out the rest of the light.


----------



## twistedraven

Zebralight uses natural anodizing, so color will vary unit to unit, it's just part of the process.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> Zebralight uses natural anodizing, so color will vary unit to unit, it's just part of the process.



Yeah that's why I mentioned the others. Since 2012 (or maybe not that far back?) they really got consistent. The process can vary a lot for dozens of reasons. I'm surprised to see such a sudden change.

Beam looks pretty nice. I think the camera exaggerates the yellow halo a bit, but it is there. It's not very noticeable in person.






Nice smooth threads. 8 pogo pins in cap, 6 in the tube.

OK one final update as I box it back up. Truly a winner here! I will definitely be buying another once/if I see the anodizing color on the "next batch". Amazing output. Nice throwy/spill mix. The tint on this one is 9/10, so hopefully I don't lose out next go around just because of the anodizing color. Yes, again, I'm insane


----------



## StorminMatt

When Zebralight indicates a light as ‘backordered’, are they referring only to potential new orders? Or would it also be considered backordered for preorders which have not yet been shipped?


----------



## justanotherguy

StorminMatt said:


> When Zebralight indicates a light as ‘backordered’, are they referring only to potential new orders? Or would it also be considered backordered for preorders which have not yet been shipped?



Since communications are minimal, you are going to have to spill some chicken guts and divine the answer yourself...


----------



## Cpl S

I preordered mine 11-27 and I emailed that exact question. They said I'll have to wait 3 to 4 weeks for mine. 

So it appears they've shipped all of their first batch and are expecting another batch in 3 to 4 weeks.


----------



## twistedraven

I'm not into that beam. I think I'm spoiled off flat emitters and/or optics though, where tint in beam tends to be more consistent.


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 said:


> Ahhhh!!! This anodizing is NASTY. If you have kids, you probably remember what their puke looked like after peas and spinach baby food. This thing is almost brown. Again, I HATE the inconsistency; all my other Zebralights match perfect since ~2012.


Just to clarify, when you say the anodizing is "nasty", you are simply referring to the color that you aren't fond of, right? I mean, the actual anodizing on mine is perfectly executed.


----------



## ven

You wont see it in the dark Keep it!!! If your happy with the beam/tint keep it!!!! You will regret it down the line. I kind of like it, like a champagne gold from pics. Makes it a little different. I am a fan of the darker ano as well. But i also like a little variety .


----------



## justanotherguy

ven said:


> You wont see it in the dark Keep it!!! If your happy with the beam/tint keep it!!!! You will regret it down the line. I kind of like it, like a champagne gold from pics. Makes it a little different. I am a fan of the darker ano as well. But i also like a little variety .


!!


----------



## Mr. LED

Zebralight’s design and anodizing make them stand out from the rest. Keep it! Or send it to me 

how is about some throw comparison with SC600w IV HI before you pack it for good?


----------



## markr6

Derek Dean said:


> Just to clarify, when you say the anodizing is "nasty", you are simply referring to the color that you aren't fond of, right? I mean, the actual anodizing on mine is perfectly executed.



Sorry that was misleading. Nasty as in the color. The anodizing quality is 100%.

Getting ready to ship this...it's hard but I gotta do it! Such an amazing light. I will be buying another as I have a feeling the anodizing will go back to "normal" in another batch. Fingers crossed.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> I'm not into that beam. I think I'm spoiled off flat emitters and/or optics though, where tint in beam tends to be more consistent.



I'm picky and don't really see any issue with this one. If you really get into it and hold it against a wall you can get a lot of variation, but other than that it's nice and even. You really have to look for this "yellowish" part.


----------



## ven

justanotherguy said:


> !!



For markr6 ,as in won’t see ano when it’s dark and being used!


----------



## markr6

That dark gray color is just so nice though. I have too many other identical Zebralights to throw in this black sheep...or green...zebra.

I compared this to my D4S 219C a little. The D4S has a slight edge in output, but everything else on the ZL is better IMO. Just overall feel, UI, weight, etc.


----------



## holygeez03

Mark is a true tint snob...


----------



## markr6

holygeez03 said:


> Mark is a true tint snob...



While that is true, I gotta say the tint on this one is great. 9 out of 10. It's the anodizing I don't like which is more gold than all my other Zebralights. I know, that's an even more pathetic excuse! I sweat the small things.


----------



## twistedraven

Mark, you must renounce your association with tint snobbery and turn in your membership card! 

Different people just have different tolerances. I remember when I first got my 219C nichia I couldn't stand it at all, while you were a bit more friendly to it.

I'm glad I've been able to find temporary peace with the SST20 offerings in Fireflies and Emisar products, but I know eventually those will even be surpassed by something.


----------



## markr6

Sitting on the counter waiting for the UPS guy to pick up. Already regretting it a little! But those little things bother me. I asked ZL about the anodizing and whether or not it was intentional. Who knows, maybe they switched the anodizing provider. A different tank, water, ph level, temp, etc. wouldn't take much.

It just looks so much like the earlier stuff that I thought it was worth asking.

Such a great light! Much nicer feel than the D4S IMO. A must have....and not just for ZL fans.


----------



## justanotherguy

I respect your decision...and it doesn't conflict with your tint snobbery... In fact it parallels it nicely in that the physical tint if the light was off


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

holygeez03 said:


> Mark is a true tint snob...



Wow! When even the tint of anodizing is enough to send back a light, you're 100% correct in that statement! 

Zebralight is going to cut Mark off at some point....


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Wow! When even the tint of anodizing is enough to send back a light, you're 100% correct in that statement!
> 
> Zebralight is going to cut Mark off at some point....



LOL! Didn't send it back though. I figured this would be the last straw, so I sold it instead of returning. It seemed like the right thing to do. And the buyer was one state over, so I didn't get beat up on shipping costs.

Too bad, I had a camping trip this weekend which would have been a fun test. I'm crazy.

p.s. My mind got sidetracked in all the anodizing talk and I forgot to mention how the 5000K seems nowhere near that. I'd say 4000-4500K. But it's a nice neutral tint which was my main concern.

The anodizing on the pic from BLF looks darker, but I think that may just be the lighting. I'm looking forward to seeing more.


----------



## NPL

4000-4500k, you just put this light in my radar!


----------



## markr6

NPL said:


> 4000-4500k, you just put this light in my radar!



I didn't do much comparing, but the ceiling shot I posted above is a pretty good indication of the CCT. But this can also vary on your monitor. It was close to my SC600w HI, but less yellow than that. I honestly can't imagine many people not liking it.


----------



## markr6

Got an interesting response from ZL on the anodizing.

In summary: The source of materials contributes most to the finished color. Alcoa rods tend to have an olive/gold color. Kaiser rods tend to have a dark gray finish. ZL switched to Kaiser rods several years ago...the Kaiser rods are from the Kalamazoo MI factory. ZL uses (whatever finished color) US made rods as long as they are not way too expensive in China.

So, I feel like I have a chance at a dark gray SC700d...maybe? I feel like my best bet would be waiting for a distributor (Nkon is the only one I know of with this) and ask them to personally verify the color before buying. Or maybe ZL would oblige. Either way, a long wait is ahead.


----------



## SubLGT

markr6 said:


> ...Yes, again, I'm insane...



 :laughing:


----------



## holygeez03

It's simple Mark... buy the aluminum rod that you want and send it to ZL to machine into a SC700 for you.


----------



## low

Derek Dean said:


> I had a feeling somebody would want to see that, but it's important to understand that these photos don't represent what I'm seeing in real life, only what the camera is seeing as "daylight" balanced.




Thank you so much for sharing the unfiltered/filtered pic. I never thought about monitor color difference. The filtered looked pinkish to me and the unfiltered looked good, I did not pick up any green, then again I lowered the green a lot on my screen while trying to watch the matrix. I was hoping to catch the subtle differences the filters made. Oh well. Thanks for trying DD.


----------



## Cpl S

holygeez03 said:


> It's simple Mark... buy the aluminum rod that you want and send it to ZL to machine into a SC700 for you.



I work in Kalamazoo. I'd be happy to pick up whatever he needs. Where do I go? PM me if I can be of service. ​


----------



## Derek Dean

low said:


> Thank you so much for sharing the unfiltered/filtered pic. I never thought about monitor color difference. The filtered looked pinkish to me and the unfiltered looked good, I did not pick up any green, then again I lowered the green a lot on my screen while trying to watch the matrix. I was hoping to catch the subtle differences the filters made. Oh well. Thanks for trying DD.


You're most welcome. 

The filtered picture looks pinkish on my monitor as well, and I don't feel it's necessarily a monitor difference, but more of a difference in what my camera considers to be "daylight". I don't think all cameras are calibrated to the same "daylight", so if you take ten different cameras and record an identical scene with all the white balances set to "daylight", then you'd probably get 10 photos with slightly different tints to the scene.

I know there is a way to use a MacBeth color checker card to calibrate my camera to get an accurate color rendition, but I just don't have the time or inclination to do that at the moment.


----------



## henry1960

Finally mine just SHIPPED!!


----------



## Beckler

I was expecting some useful info instead I've read 50 pgs about the precise tint of the LED and the color of the g*damn anodizing...this isn't what i buy flashlights for.  I guess im in the wrong place...


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Beckler said:


> I was expecting some useful info instead I've read 50 pgs about the precise tint of the LED and the color of the g*damn anodizing...this isn't what i buy flashlights for.  I guess im in the wrong place...



Well, ZL fans already like everything else about their lights. The only thing left to complain about is the LED tint on some samples. The tint of the anodizing is one I've never heard before, but at least it gives us one other thing to argue about.


----------



## justanotherguy

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Well, ZL fans already like everything else about their lights. The only thing left to complain about is the LED tint on some samples. The tint of the anodizing is one I've never heard before, but at least it gives us one other thing to argue about.



I'm grateful for ano snobs myself


----------



## GeoBruin

Think of it this way: this group of whiny, snobby, flashlight geeks has made Zebralight the company it is today, or at least heavily influenced the product offerings. Zebralight now advertises attributes about their lights that the average Amazon shopper doesn't even know they want: CCT, CRI, tint deviation, ultra low lows, customizable UI, etc. 

Zebralight had one the best and most unique product offerings way back when all they had was a small selection of AA powered mule headlamps. But they didn't stop innovating. They kept browsing this forum (and others I'm sure) and paying attention to what we, their most demanding user base, wanted. Now their product line is unparalleled in terms of available options and they make what are arguably some of the most versatile, efficient, usable products on the market. As a result, those same Amazon shoppers can spend between $50 and $100 and have one of the best illumination tools available without even realizing the design has been vetted by the likes of Mark and the rest of you "crazies". Zebralight probably doesn't even have focus groups! They just leak some specs to get an initial reaction, then manufacture and sell a few hundred "pre-sale" models to us, knowing we won't be able to resist a new product. Then they watch us discuss and quibble amongst ourselves, all the while giving them hundreds of hours of well documented, unbiased feedback. It's a win win!


----------



## holygeez03

Is there any proof or support from ZL that forums like this have had any significant influence on their design choices or offerings? I know we like to think so...


----------



## low

Beckler said:


> I was expecting some useful info instead I've read 50 pgs about the precise tint of the LED and the color of the g*damn anodizing...this isn't what i buy flashlights for.  I guess im in the wrong place...




Perhaps so. You really don't need a forum to look for a crappy tint, they seem to be everywhere.
And there cheap. 

All I want is great tint. Form factor, UI and battery size come last on my list.
Dependability is good though.


----------



## henry1960

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Well, ZL fans already like everything else about their lights. The only thing left to complain about is the LED tint on some samples. The tint of the anodizing is one I've never heard before, but at least it gives us one other thing to argue about.



Im fine with the Anodizing...I am more concern abought tint myself...


----------



## ven

This light is on my short list for 2019, loving the beefed up head and fuel option. Also this 70.2 so far seems promising..........UK stock makes my life easier come returns. But saying that, ZL have come through (in the end) of past. As for ano, i have quite a few shades(50 shades of green) with my ZL's. I like them all, kind of prefer the darker green, but i have some very light ano. I like the fact they are slightly different shades, besides its still more desirable than the sea of black out there.


----------



## NPL

Has anybody who owns the light tried it with other batteries than the 40t's? Considering to buy Vapcell 5000mah 15A batteries and wondered how they will perform in this light.


----------



## justanotherguy

Pics of some ZL's 
SC600, SC600, SC700d, SC600w III HI, SC600fd IV plus

I have the battery from ZL and a samsung 50e I picked up... The 50e seems to be working ok, not sure what tests I should put it through...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=13iAF6P5cywt-lnluCwCYyFBN3fpOu7vw


----------



## ven

looking very good!


----------



## StorminMatt

NPL said:


> Considering to buy Vapcell 5000mah 15A batteries and wondered how they will perform in this light.



Will it work with that recessed top?


----------



## justanotherguy

StorminMatt said:


> Will it work with that recessed top?



Well there are 6 little pins down inside the light, hard to tell though how tall those are


----------



## Mr. LED

Does a 10A battery work with the SC700d?


----------



## justanotherguy

Mr. LED said:


> Does a 10A battery work with the SC700d?


I hope someone with equipment can give an in depth answer, but in short, I have the 50e in it and tail standing until it gets pretty warm... output SEEMS steady.
But really, someone with a light meter will need to analyze this.
With the 50e there seems to be a ton of output and like I said it SEEMS like it is steady output


----------



## StorminMatt

Mr. LED said:


> Does a 10A battery work with the SC700d?



I’m sure it does. The only time there could ever possibly be a problem is on H1.


----------



## Connor

It has been said that the SC700d is demanding close to the max of what the 50E can deliver (only on H1, of course). 
If you plan to use the SC700d a LOT on max and out in the cold the 50E is prolly not the right cell to use - otherwise (occasional blast of H1) it should be perfectly fine.


----------



## Mr. LED

Is there any danger in using the 10A battery on H1 for longer periods?


----------



## Derek Dean

Beckler said:


> I was expecting some useful info instead I've read 50 pgs about the precise tint of the LED and the color of the g*damn anodizing...this isn't what i buy flashlights for.  I guess im in the wrong place...


Let us know what information you're interested in and we'll see what we can do


----------



## noboneshotdog

Mr. LED said:


> Is there any danger in using the 10A battery on H1 for longer periods?



No danger, just won't be able to give the amperage the led demands on high. So you may not be able to achieve max output very long before the light drops to a lower output level.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Beckler said:


> I was expecting some useful info instead I've read 50 pgs about the precise tint of the LED and the color of the g*damn anodizing...this isn't what i buy flashlights for.  I guess im in the wrong place...



Also, it's tough to talk to much about the in's and outs of this light when at this point we only have one or two members that have received it as of yet. 

If you are looking for helpful information from your fellow forum members, we are typically pretty helpful when kindly asked...


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Mr. LED said:


> Does a 10A battery work with the SC700d?



The Samsung 50E has a rated continuous discharge of 9.8A, but 14.7A if you don't use it continuously. Usually, that means until the battery gets hot (around 75C - 80C), which usually takes a couple of minutes even at max discharge. So, it should be fine. I think the light will ramp down due to PID before the battery gets too hot, especially if the max current is well under 14.7A which I suspect it is.


----------



## radellaf

noboneshotdog said:


> No danger, just won't be able to give the amperage the led demands on high. So you may not be able to achieve max output very long before the light drops to a lower output level.



Before I was confident about that, I'd do a test run or few and measure the temperature of the battery (IR thermometer should be OK, just not on the shiny metal parts) to make sure it's not getting too hot. I think the 50E has a 60C operating temperature limit. If you're getting above that, there may be danger. Zebralights don't dim when the voltage gets pulled down by IR, unless it gets down far enough. On a full cell you can be burning a lot of watts in the battery, and possibly overheating it, without anything visible happening. It's not like a DD light. Staying full brightness doesn't mean the battery can handle the load.

Question for one of the current owners:
How long before the area near the switch gets too hot for your thumb? More than a minute?




Beckler said:


> I was expecting some useful info instead I've read 50 pgs about the precise tint of the LED and the color of the g*damn anodizing...this isn't what i buy flashlights for.  I guess im in the wrong place...



If you're reading the same thread I am, there's as much useful info as there could be considering only a couple of people have the light, and they've posted a good bit of info. Not a selfbuilt type of thorough review, much as I'd love that. There's _also_ a lot of hand-wringing about minutiae. This is, indeed, a place for such things. It's not Amazon reviews.
The really big frustration is having a long thread AND NOT ENOUGH SHIPPED LIGHTS. But, great things take time.


----------



## Derek Dean

radellaf said:


> Question for one of the current owners:
> How long before the area near the switch gets too hot for your thumb? More than a minute?


I did a test tonight seeing how long I could hold the flashlight on Max output before it got too hot to hold....... I ended the test after 30 minutes because I was getting bored. Unfortunately, I don't have any sophisticated test equipment, but I did use my camera's light meter to somewhat follow the action. 

I was using the full charged battery listed on the ZL website. Ambient temp in my apartment is about 60 F, I was holding it in my hand just like you'd normally hold a flashlight, with fingers wrapped around the body and thumb on the switch, and here's how it went:
1. Max on. 
2. Very bright for the first 2 minutes with little to no dimming. Body heating up slowly, but not at all hot yet.
3. at 2 minutes I could almost imperceptibly begin to notice slight dimming, and the front of the body near the head was beginning to get very warm.
4. At 5 minutes the head was very hot, but not too hot to touch, only to hot to stay touching it for very long. Light still very bright, but noticeably dimmer than at max. 
6. At 5 minutes I turned off the light briefly and checked the temp of the battery (by removing it)...... only warm.
7. When I clicked the light back on, it went to full brightness and after 30 seconds I began to visually see it step down in very minor increments
8. All this time, the light was never too hot to hold. Yes, it got uncomfortably warm and I had to change hand positions a few times, but never burning hot. And the head, while hot, was never too hot to touch for 5 or 6 seconds at a time.
9. At this time (6 minutes) I compared the output of the SC700d to my SC600w MkIV+, and the SC700d output was almost identical to the 1311 (H2) of the SC600w Mk IV+. 
10. Over the next 24 minutes I kept checking the relative levels between the two lights and found no change (turning the SC600 MkIV+ off between tests). The body temperature also stayed the same, with the area of the body next to the head being quite hot and head being very hot, but never too hot to touch, and the rest of the body being just warm to very warm. 
11. The area around the button was never too hot to touch, but it did get hot. 

Of course this was with no air movement at all, just me holding the light. Personally, I was very impressed with the results. Of course, it's quite possible it was dimming somewhat in those first 2 minutes and I simply couldn't see it visually or detect it with my camera, but it sure seemed to stay very bright. 

However, for me, the most impressive part was how steady the output was after it settled down to it's stable operating temp, and that it never did get too hot to hold.


----------



## ven

Awesome! Seems to be a perfect dog waking light(I love excuses). Thanks again for all the useful info derek


----------



## wimmer21

Good job Derek Dean! Sounds like this light has enough mass that it doesn't need to step down much below 1300 lumens.


----------



## markr6

There seems to be a couple people upset with me...or ZL...or the world. Life's hard sometimes. Sorry if that's the case, but this is a forum. And a ZEBRALIGHT thread of all threads. Did you expect a couple posts with all technical info and call that the end? Maybe in the future we can just provide an Amazon-esque review "Great light, buy it!"

I simply got the light, tried it, liked it. One little thing bothered me so I sold it to another member who is now thrilled. I don't see any problems here. If you want more info (like I still do even after owning one), just wait. That's all you can do at this point.

I'm sorry I brought up the anodizing. From now on, exterior finish of a light should never be mentioned again on CPF even though almost every flashlight review out there does.

p.s. The pics from justanotherguy do look darker than mine, so I'll be getting another for sure.


----------



## Mattz68

Mark6, I consider you one of top contributors on C.P. -a mix of humor, flashaholic passion, tech knowledge (without being too nerdy) and “real world” info. Although we differ in our tint preferences (4000k vs 5000k) -I still look forward to your insites and Zebralight reviews/pictures. If some people can’t handle your personal preferences -too bad for them! HAPPPY NEW YEAR ~Matt


----------



## holygeez03

Mark... all info is good info... especially on a free to use forum.


----------



## ctrashp

Well, i ordered one, on Dec.8th,2018. ZL says won't ship til late January, early Feb. Very pleased with the 3 18650 lights from ZL. Hopefully, this one pans out, too. Happy New Year!


----------



## dotCPF

markr6 said:


> Got an interesting response from ZL on the anodizing.
> 
> In summary: The source of materials contributes most to the finished color. Alcoa rods tend to have an olive/gold color. Kaiser rods tend to have a dark gray finish. ZL switched to Kaiser rods several years ago...the Kaiser rods are from the Kalamazoo MI factory. ZL uses (whatever finished color) US made rods as long as they are not way too expensive in China.
> 
> So, I feel like I have a chance at a dark gray SC700d...maybe? I feel like my best bet would be waiting for a distributor (Nkon is the only one I know of with this) and ask them to personally verify the color before buying. Or maybe ZL would oblige. Either way, a long wait is ahead.



Mark- I'm with you on the anodization. If you ever make any headway here, and find out if they have a chance at a darker grey color, a heads up would be much appreciated! I'll be perusing the board for any updates here regardless. (I don't know that I'd sell the light because of it..... but it is important to me in such a high quality thing)


----------



## markr6

dotCPF said:


> Mark- I'm with you on the anodization. If you ever make any headway here, and find out if they have a chance at a darker grey color, a heads up would be much appreciated! I'll be perusing the board for any updates here regardless. (I don't know that I'd sell the light because of it..... but it is important to me in such a high quality thing)



Yeah I knew it was pretty extreme to sell it because of that, but something that would bother me going forward. Right now it was an easy sell, so I unloaded it for a $6 loss (shipping). I'll try again. Once they start being delivered over the next few weeks we'll know if they vary at all light to light or if it will take an entirely new batch. Most likely the latter.


----------



## justanotherguy

markr6 said:


> Yeah I knew it was pretty extreme to sell it because of that, but something that would bother me going forward. Right now it was an easy sell, so I unloaded it for a $6 loss (shipping). I'll try again. Once they start being delivered over the next few weeks we'll know if they vary at all light to light or if it will take an entirely new batch. Most likely the latter.



Are you looking for a 700d thats lighter..Or darker in ano...?
Do you want yours back?


----------



## likethevegetable

markr6 said:


> Yeah I knew it was pretty extreme to sell it because of that, but something that would bother me going forward. Right now it was an easy sell, so I unloaded it for a $6 loss (shipping). I'll try again. Once they start being delivered over the next few weeks we'll know if they vary at all light to light or if it will take an entirely new batch. Most likely the latter.



No judgment! Your money, your flashlight, your decision. We're all crazy (perhaps fastidious is the proper word) around here for different reasons. Have you heard any Knife Knuts get all worked up over their blade being 0.5mm off center? The ano being that light probably would have been a deal breaker for me too. For $120 USD (close to $190 CAD with shipping), I would require it to have that "cool" factor that the darker ano has, IMO. 

I was honestly thrown off by the ano of my SC600w IV Plus when I first got it, and it is probably half a shade lighter: https://i.imgur.com/LxgBzXd.jpg

My first ZL, H53c is the best of my herd, it looks like a smooth powder coat. Too bad I scratched the crap out of it.

justanotherguy: Mr. markr6 said it was the lightness that reminded him of baby waste matter.


----------



## markr6

likethevegetable said:


> justanotherguy: Mr. markr6 said it was the lightness that reminded him of baby waste matter.


Haha yeah I was exaggerating there. I can't downright say it's ugly. It was more of a gold/brown/olive color than the dark gray. I'm sure some will like it though.

That dark gray is a must for me after getting pretty much every ZL in that color. The only one I have that is lighter is the old SC52w from 2013, and even then it's darker than this 700 was.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> That dark gray is a must for me after getting pretty much every ZL in that color. The only one I have that is lighter is the old SC52w from 2013, and even then it's darker than this 700 was.



You would absolutely hate my SC52. It's at least two shades lighter than my SC52w. It doesn't really have any color to it, though, mostly just a medium/light grey.


----------



## low

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> You would absolutely hate my SC52. It's at least two shades lighter than my SC52w. It doesn't really have any color to it, though, mostly just a medium/light grey.




Same with my SC52c.


----------



## Cpl S

If mine is dark when it arrives, I'm hapy to trade it to Markr6 with whatever shade he gets.


----------



## NPL

What other lights do you guys own that you think this SC700d will replace or render inferior?


----------



## P220C

For me, the SC600 is already bigger than I can comfortably pocket carry. With larger cell phones, I’ve simply run out of pocket room. On paper at least, the size difference between the SC600 and SC700 would seem hardly noticible in the hand or bag. The extra runtime of the 21700 is a side benefit - the higher sustained output is why this light is on my list for 2019.


----------



## markr6

Cpl S said:


> If mine is dark when it arrives, I'm hapy to trade it to Markr6 with whatever shade he gets.



I'd buy another in that case! But who knows what color _that _one would be.


----------



## radellaf

It'll render most lights I have inferior, but replace none of them: they're a collection of curiosities more than a set of useful devices. 

Apart from comparisons, it will be hard to find a reason to use the SC600 lights. The SC6x and 5x have clips so those are more pocketable. I can't stand the snap-on SC600 clips so those are all still in the box. The ZLs in general render just about every other light inferior, except maybe the Emisar D4S.

As for anodize, I'm happy with anything in the range ZL's been doing since the SC51 and SC60 days when I got my first ones up to the very dark SC53 SC64. The dark is an interesting change from the light grey with _maybe_ a hint of green, but I wouldn't call it "better," personally.


----------



## Derek Dean

NPL said:


> What other lights do you guys own that you think this SC700d will replace or render inferior?


I don't really see the SC700d replacing any of my current lights, but rather having joined the ranks as more of an all purpose around the house the light.

Here's how I see it fitting in with my other ZL lights:

*SC52w*: Honestly, I don't use this one that much, because it's not that much smaller than my SC62w, but I do like having at least one AA light in the house. 
*
SC62w*: I really appreciate the small form factor of this light, giving me all the power and run time of an 18650 cell, along with the versatility of the ZL UI, all in a small pocket friendly size, meaning there's never a reason to leave home without it. I use this as my during-the-day EDC, just to have it in my pocket for those time I need a light to see inside somewhere where it's dark (under a seat in the bus or in an engine compartment), or to have if my day job ends up going over into a night job (which happens frequently). 

*SC600w MkIV+*: My main work light for night work (which is my main job). Bigger than the SC62w, but still pocketable, and it is brighter for those times I need that kind of reach, and I really enjoy it's broader hotspot which makes reading a book in the car more enjoyable while I'm waiting for guests to eat dinner, etc. (I'm a chauffeur).
*
SC700d*: My around the house all purpose light, with great runtime at higher outputs and extreme brightness when needed, with the added bonus of still being small enough to fit in a jacket pocket and able to go as low as I'll ever need, all in one small light. I'll probably use this when going for walks at night (easy to hold and operate with gloves on), or going down to the beach at sunset. 

So, all-in-all, I think the SC700d makes a nice addition to my little little herd : )


----------



## markr6

So can it really be true that only a few people got this light so far? Or did a bunch of non-CPF people order and get them first? I would have thought we'd have dozens of pics/reviews by now.

I like to think they sent me a prototype...so the next one I get will have the "real" dark gray anodizing


----------



## Swedpat

Derek Dean,

I very much reason like you when it comes to the different Zebralights. Now I think SC700d is what is missing in my collection. That means I will need another more charger but that's not a big problem..


----------



## StandardBattery

I got mine yesterday. I like it. It does not replace my 600Fd III plus. The anodizing is a lighter color, similar to some earlier models, yes i prefer the darker anodizing. I prefer the smooth beam from a frosted lens, i hope they make it with a frosted lens. The color temp is warmer than my 600FdIII+ I'm pretty sure, but i need more tests at different levels. The beam has more rings than typical for Zebralight, outdoors or after 25ft it likely is fine. I didn't get the chance for an outdoor test yet. It's bright!


----------



## justanotherguy

Swedpat said:


> Derek Dean,
> 
> I very much reason like you when it comes to the different Zebralights. Now I think SC700d is what is missing in my collection. That means I will need another more charger but that's not a big problem..


You could always hack the enclosure to fit the 21700


----------



## Derek Dean

Swedpat said:


> Derek Dean,
> 
> I very much reason like you when it comes to the different Zebralights. Now I think SC700d is what is missing in my collection. That means I will need another more charger but that's not a big problem..


I forgot to include a very nice use for this light, and that's as my bed side table light, for use navigating in dim light, or for when I need to see very bright very quickly. It's so cool having both extremes available in one light.


----------



## Swedpat

Derek Dean said:


> I forgot to include a very nice use for this light, and that's as my bed side table light, for use navigating in dim light, or for when I need to see very bright very quickly. It's so cool having both extremes available in one light.




I actually use to have some of my AA Zebralights as a bed side table light! 
And SC64c is my constant working pants light which I carry in the side leg pocket together with a pen and a Zeiss miniquick 5x10 monocular. With the switch pointing to the leg it has never turned on accidently, it seems pretty much impossible.


----------



## Xenophon

Got an interesting response while being a bit chatty with Zebralight sales. I thought you all might be interested: Apparently, sometime within the next few weeks (who knows what that means) they're going to come out with a 700Fd. I personally love their diffused lights as one thing I use them for is as a photo fill. I also like them indoors as a first choice, whether wandering about or working. Usually. I still intend to get my 700d whenever they can manage to ship it to me...it seems a beautiful beam and I'm greatly looking forward to it, but I at least find it an intriguing option to think about while waiting : )

Also, it looks like things are staying more green for awhile, without question, due to previously mentioned aluminum stock prices in China. No chance on a darker batch coming soon. *shrug* There are so many things that could be a deal breaker for me, but that simply isn't one of them.


----------



## Xenophon

radellaf said:


> Apart from comparisons, it will be hard to find a reason to use the SC600 lights....[clips still in box]



For me personally, I love the 600 clips and the ability to carry reflector up. I often wear mine between my shirt buttons, head out. It's handy when my hands are full, it's quick to turn on, and it doesn't have to compete for pocket space. And when angled a bit between thumb and fingers, I find the light fits in my hand, clip and all, in a very satisfying way.

I've also clipped it into the collar of an Oxford a time or three (and onto various edges), big as it is, when the situation required it.

Yes, it could be argued that it's an odd fashion statement to wear one between one's shirt buttons. But I'm comfortable with my good taste and aesthetic priorities ; )


----------



## Mr. LED

Xenophon said:


> For me personally, I love the 600 clips and the ability to carry reflector up. I often wear mine between my shirt buttons, head out. It's handy when my hands are full, it's quick to turn on, and it doesn't have to compete for pocket space. And when angled a bit between thumb and fingers, I find the light fits in my hand, clip and all, in a very satisfying way.
> 
> I've also clipped it into the collar of an Oxford a time or three (and onto various edges), big as it is, when the situation required it.
> 
> Yes, it could be argued that it's an odd fashion statement to wear one between one's shirt buttons. But I'm comfortable with my good taste and aesthetic priorities ; )




How do you deal with the pocket shredding of the clip against the knurling on the flashlight body? I can’t use my SC600 IV HI clip because of this.


----------



## Keitho

Received mine yesterday, ordered 20 Oct. My first impression out of the box was, "wow, that thing is huge." For my front pockets, the SC600's are pushing it on size, so I can't see the SC700's ever riding in anything but a cargo pocket or bag of mine. The ano is fine, probably in the "light grey" category.

My intended use is on my bike handlebar, commuting and MTB. I'm looking forward to a runtime test this evening on the way home from work. The beam is beautiful, though I'd prefer 4000K. It is slightly more focused that my SC600Fc, obviously; but, of importance on the bike, there isn't a harsh transition from bright hotspot to spill. I can always use DC fix if I want more diffused, but I'll try tonight without it.

Somewhat related--my Enova Gyrflacon 88 charger worked fine on my Samsung 40T's at 1A, and my new MiBOXER charger worked a peach at 3A.


----------



## markr6

Sounds like a good use on the handlebar. The light weight and short/stocky size should minimize any wobble, depending on whatever kind of mount you use too.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Yeah, if I get this one, it will replace the SC600w MkIV Plus I currently use on my bike. I'd definitely want a 5000mAh cell for it, though.


----------



## StandardBattery

StandardBattery said:


> I got mine yesterday. I like it. It does not replace my 600Fd III plus. The anodizing is a lighter color, similar to some earlier models, yes i prefer the darker anodizing. I prefer the smooth beam from a frosted lens, i hope they make it with a frosted lens. The color temp is warmer than my 600FdIII+ I'm pretty sure, but i need more tests at different levels. The beam has more rings than typical for Zebralight, outdoors or after 25ft it likely is fine. I didn't get the chance for an outdoor test yet. It's bright!


Hmmm. Using a 50E I'm getting a slight battery rattle. This is unexpected. Going to track down where my 40Ts are hiding and check them.


----------



## markr6

StandardBattery said:


> Hmmm. Using a 50E I'm getting a slight battery rattle. This is unexpected. Going to track down where my 40Ts are hiding and check them.



Oh yeah I forgot to mention that. Huge rattle with my 40T. I got that with other Zebralights so I usually wrap the cell with clear shrink wrap. There's always the cheap scotch tape method too.


----------



## StandardBattery

StandardBattery said:


> Hmmm. Using a 50E I'm getting a slight battery rattle. This is unexpected. Going to track down where my 40Ts are hiding and check them.


Checked, and as expected 40T is the same.


----------



## StorminMatt

Xenophon said:


> Apparently, sometime within the next few weeks (who knows what that means) they're going to come out with a 700Fd. I personally love their diffused lights as one thing I use them for is as a photo fill. I also like them indoors as a first choice, whether wandering about or working. Usually. I still intend to get my 700d whenever they can manage to ship it to me...it seems a beautiful beam and I'm greatly looking forward to it, but I at least find it an intriguing option to think about while waiting : )



Since I preordered on December 4 and likely won’t be getting mine for a while, I wonder if I could just have Zebralight send me this one instead.


----------



## justanotherguy

Where is this SC700fd info coming from?
This light is pretty dam floody as it is


----------



## holygeez03

Floody, yes... but assuming the Fd is diffused/frosted, that's a whole new category.

Pencil beam
Thrower
Flood
Diffused
Mule

All have their uses...


----------



## StandardBattery

StandardBattery said:


> I got mine yesterday. I like it. It does not replace my 600Fd III plus. The anodizing is a lighter color, similar to some earlier models, yes i prefer the darker anodizing. I prefer the smooth beam from a frosted lens, i hope they make it with a frosted lens. The color temp is warmer than my 600FdIII+ I'm pretty sure, but i need more tests at different levels. The beam has more rings than typical for Zebralight, outdoors or after 25ft it likely is fine. I didn't get the chance for an outdoor test yet. It's bright!





StandardBattery said:


> Hmmm. Using a 50E I'm getting a slight battery rattle. This is unexpected. Going to track down where my 40Ts are hiding and check them.





StandardBattery said:


> Checked, and as expected 40T is the same.



After using it for a a very short while, I'll reverse myself and say the tint on my 700d is slightly cooler than my 600Fd III plus, but very close. 

As mentioned by someone earlier, the 700d can stay at H2 for a long time and even H1. I tested at 0 deg C and the Fd III plus got warm to hold almost immediately, makes a good hand warmer. The 700d did not really heat much in my hand, I suspect at H2 it can run forever at 0deg. It's a great light for outdoors, the extra distance at H2 is useful, and H1 is kind of insane, but has applications. 

I like the spectrum of the 600 III Fd plus, a beautiful light, the 700d is not quite as nice. The level programmability will be really great on the 700 series with it's incredible lumen range.

I think they may adjust the diameter of the battery tube just a bit to reduce battery rattle, unless there are slightly larger 21700 spec cells coming out. I do not have a a newer Panasonic/Sanyo 21700 cell to check, but as listed above 50E, 40T, and 48G all have more rattle than I like (as well as the 20700B). They requite a tape/wrapper addition to quiet things down.

I look forward to the 700Fd; I will buy it, and the 700d will probably join my ZebraLight archives. The 600 III Fd plus will remain my EDC, but going outdoors I might leave my TX-35 UE, and others at home more often in favor of the future 700Fd.


----------



## Keitho

My first real-world runtime test was at "H2a" level (specified at 1458 lumens), using the Samsung 40T's that I ordered from Zebralight. I ran it for 20 minutes on my bike ride to work at 19 deg F, then continued the test on my bike ride home at 38 deg F; it was at 70 total minutes when it stepped down from H2a into a much lower mode (I swapped cells at that point). Both rides averaged ~17mph; so, I don't expect there was much/any PID. My MiBoxer charger read 3.21V when I started recharging it. Per the lygte-info.dk test of the cell, I got through about 15 Wh in 70 minutes (I'm approximating about 3.2A at 1400 lumens, about 110 lumens per W). With a larger capacity cell, I'd expect about 2 more Wh, which should translate into a total of at least 80 minutes before stepdown (very roughly--I'm aware that voltage sag and other phenomena that will certainly affect runtimes at different currents on different cells).

The ride experience with this handlebar light was good with the clear lens, and truly excellent with some Scotch brand "self adhesive diffuser film." It would be perfect as a helmet light without the tape, and I'm really happy with the slightly-more-diffused beam for a handlebar light. The 1458 lumens was really too much for road riding, and will be perfect as a "turbo" mode when downhilling on singletrack trails; the 945 lumens was pretty perfect for riding on pavement, and should last at least 2 hours (I'll do some more real world testing over the next week)! I'm used to using an SC600Fc IV+ at the 1035-lumen setting: 4000K, pure frosted floody high-CRI goodness, but less than an hour on an 18650GA (with a very subjectively slightly-prettier beam and tint to my eyes).

It was only one day of use, but I might finally have a high quality light that I can recommend to non-flashaholic bike friends, or hand to my wife for her to use on her bike (using one of the programmable UI groups to make it into a 1-mode bike light with a very predictable runtime, no matter how many times she presses the button). A runtime of 70-80 minutes at 1400 lumens and 2 hours at 900 lumens starts to be very attractive when compared to high-end bike-specific options. For example, the Exposure Diablo (up to Mk10 now) is a fantastic light at 120g, 1500 claimed (believable) lumens for 1 hour, at USD$240 or more (they don't specify CCT or CRI). The high-CRI ZL SC700 is 162g, with longer runtime, replaceable cells, and way more uses off the bike. Obviously, the ZL lacks many features that some people find useful on bike-specific lights (remotes, cutoff beams, USB charging, head unit controls, etc.); but, for many, this gem might fit the bill.

To add more info that isn't on the ZL spec sheet so far (come ON Zebralight, that's just being lazy; and, don't get me started about the lack of runtimes on lights over a year old), the empty weight on my kitchen scale with the pocket clip is 96g; including the 40T it reads 162g.


----------



## justanotherguy

seems to narrow a light so to speak for mtb'ing.. I'd gloworm it.. Or something. I used a gemini clone with a remote4x battery holder


----------



## SubLGT

Apparently, Samsung has just recently finished tweaking the performance of the 40T cell, and have released the "production version" of the cell to distributors. I believe ZL and other vendors have been selling a pre-production version. 

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/threads/inr21700-40t-are-they-all-the-same.892775/



> Samsung is finally starting to release the production version of the 40T to some distributors/customers. There are some changes in the latest version of the datasheet. I will be receiving samples of these production cells and will compare them to the performance and appearance of the pre-production samples I tested earlier.


----------



## Keitho

justanotherguy said:


> seems to narrow a light so to speak for mtb'ing.. I'd gloworm it.. Or something. I used a gemini clone with a remote4x battery holder


Yep, bike specific lights will work best for a lot of people, including remote wired battery packs. But, I was surprised how floody the SC700d gets with the OP reflector and some Scotch tape--way brighter spill than I expected given the depth of the reflector. I should have also mentioned that I pretty much always use a helmet light to supplement my bar light--that helps fill in shadows and not-so-bright spots that I need to see. For people who want just one light on their bar, especially for MTB, the SC700 probably isn't the right fit.


----------



## likethevegetable

Keitho, thanks for posting the weight. I'm surprised to see it's only 4 g heavier than the SC600s.


----------



## StandardBattery

My ZL 700d with 50E weighs 161.8g, my 600Fd III plus with GA weighs 114.2g.


----------



## likethevegetable

StandardBattery said:


> My ZL 700d with 50E weighs 161.8g, my 600Fd III plus with GA weighs 114.2g.



That sounds more reasonable to me than what Keitho posted, perhaps his scale cal. is off.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

likethevegetable said:


> That sounds more reasonable to me than what Keitho posted, perhaps his scale cal. is off.



Maybe without batteries it's only 8g heavier? I thought it would be more, but the 600's use fairly chunky aluminum, so maybe 8g is right.


----------



## likethevegetable

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Maybe without batteries it's only 8g heavier? I thought it would be more, but the 600's use fairly chunky aluminum, so maybe 8g is right.



Given a 70 g 21700, StandardBattery would have weighed theirs closer to 90 g w/o the cell, which is about 26 g (almost an oz) heavier than the 600's.


----------



## Keitho

Sorry guys, I must have somehow mis-zeroed my kitchen scale for post 488; I re-weighed my SC600Fd IV+ at 68g with the pocket clip, 64g with no pocket clip (same as ZL specification); then re-weighed my SC700d at 96g with the pocket clip and no cell, 162g with pocket clip and 40T cell. Editing post 488 now. Maybe I should have waited until _after_ I posted to start with the Stranahan's!


----------



## StorminMatt

Keitho said:


> Yep, bike specific lights will work best for a lot of people, including remote wired battery packs. But, I was surprised how floody the SC700d gets with the OP reflector and some Scotch tape--way brighter spill than I expected given the depth of the reflector. I should have also mentioned that I pretty much always use a helmet light to supplement my bar light--that helps fill in shadows and not-so-bright spots that I need to see. For people who want just one light on their bar, especially for MTB, the SC700 probably isn't the right fit.



Then again, can you get a bike light that is NOT low cri cool white? I don’t know about you. But I would NEVER willingly downgrade from something like the SC600Fc to cool white! And although I don’t know how the SC700d compares to the SC600Fc. But even if it’s nowhere as good, I’m SURE it’s WORLDS better than some cheap cool white bike light.


----------



## Derek Dean

I hope, when you'all are talking about using something like the SC700d for bike riding, that you are NOT considering using this for riding where other people are coming towards you. I commute to work by bicycle on a bike path, and I seriously dislike it when some yahoo is coming at me from the other direction with his new zillion lumen light blazing right in my eyes to the point that I am totally blinded. 

Years ago I found a lovely bike light that is designed with a hard cutoff that not only keeps the light out of peoples eyes, but re-directs it down on the pavement where it actually does some good. Yes, it's a bit on the coolish side and certainly not high CRI, but it works well for it's intended purpose. 

Anyway, sorry for the rant, please do carry on, as I'm sure you're much more thoughtful than to misuse your lights in such a fashion : )


----------



## StandardBattery

StandardBattery said:


> My ZL 700d with 50E weighs 161.8g, my 600Fd III plus with GA weighs 114.2g.


The 700d was without clip, the 600Fd was with clip. 

I'm really impressed with how cool the 700d runs even out of the hand. Used indoors it's great for lighting a room with a ceiling bounce, reminds me of my quads and other much larger lights.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Derek Dean said:


> I hope, when you'all are talking about using something like the SC700d for bike riding, that you are NOT considering using this for riding where other people are coming towards you.



I use the 600+ when cycling, and yes I know it shines in oncoming driver's eyes. I have the modes set to easily turn it down to a lower setting when a driver is approaching. I only leave it on high if the driver refuses to turn down his own high-beams.

I know that on low it's still in the driver's eyes, but at that setting it's far less bright that their regular head-lights on me. They may still not like it, but frankly most drivers can't stand anything about cyclists.

I cycle in low-traffic areas, so I only have to turn down my light maybe a dozen or two times per ride.


----------



## Derek Dean

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I use the 600+ when cycling, and yes I know it shines in oncoming driver's eyes. I have the modes set to easily turn it down to a lower setting when a driver is approaching. I only leave it on high if the driver refuses to turn down his own high-beams.
> 
> I know that on low it's still in the driver's eyes, but at that setting it's far less bright that their regular head-lights on me. They may still not like it, but frankly most drivers can't stand anything about cyclists.
> 
> I cycle in low-traffic areas, so I only have to turn down my light maybe a dozen or two times per ride.


Well, I do understand. I'm only able to commute because I don't have to deal with cars, just other bicycles and people walking on the bike path. 

However, the thing that makes LED lights so blinding, beside being so bright, is that the LED is this tiny point source of light that has a way of boring right into the skull when viewed from directly in front, even at a lower level. Still, I do appreciate that you at least do try and mitigate the discomfort by turning down your light..... many other folks aren't nice enough to do that....they just blaze ahead, sometimes with 2 or 3 lights at Max output. 

Ok, enough, sorry to get off topic.... I went for a nice walk in the rain tonight, with my SC700d of course, and it was just lovely. Most of the time it was plenty bright on M1, but of course I couldn't resist popping it up on H1 occasionally, just massive (and yes, I made sure there were no people about ).


----------



## likethevegetable

Saw this on Reddit a few months ago, a 3d printed shroud for a flashlight to redirect the beam for cycling: 
https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/9t9w87/flashlight_shroud_for_bike_light/

I'm thinking of taking a sheet of aluminium instead and bending it to clip onto my SC600w's neck, drill a hole for the button... Or use the existing clip and glue on a shroud. Darnit I knew I should have bought a spare clip!


----------



## likethevegetable

Sorry if this is too off topic…

Alright gents, I needed an excuse to avoid studying so I whipped this up in about 10 minutes. Please refrain from snarky comments about the absolute hack-job this is, but it is strictly a prototype.

I have these tubes in my golf bag that help organize my clubs – they are a thin, pliable, super easy to cut 1.5” ID tube and fit quite decently around my SC600w IV Plus. 

I’m definitely concerned about the plastic melting at high outputs and would put aluminum tape all around the interior to improve efficiency. 

This will make for a good prototype to fool around with some shroud designs.

Here’s the full album.


----------



## Xenophon

justanotherguy said:


> Where is this SC700fd info coming from?
> This light is pretty dam floody as it is



From a reply via Zebralight Sales regarding, "You aren't by any chance thinking of offering a...." question. 

I dearly love their F lights and recently gave my SC600Fd IV and an SC600d III with a charger to my son and his wife (they proved worthy) - so I currently have a couple of gaps in my Zebralight collection. Having a terrible time being patient for my 700d. My wife has her eye on my last 18650 Zebralight (SC600Fd III, kind of a redundant light, but it went missing for several weeks, and I thought it was gone for good) - so I've got some shopping to do. And depending on how much I love the 700d....


----------



## Xenophon

Mr. LED said:


> How do you deal with the pocket shredding of the clip against the knurling on the flashlight body? I can’t use my SC600 IV HI clip because of this.



It's a legitimate issue. Two ways: First, I'm oddly surprised at how often I can leave it there, at least wandering around the house. But mostly by being careful how I handle the clip. I lift it up a little as I clip it on and off. I haven't had much trouble with wear when I'm careful, and the knurling does have the benefit of not letting it move around much. I think it would slip around too much to get away with wearing it like that were it smooth.


----------



## justanotherguy

Xenophon said:


> From a reply via Zebralight Sales regarding, "You aren't by any chance thinking of offering a...." question.
> 
> I dearly love their F lights and recently gave my SC600Fd IV and an SC600d III with a charger to my son and his wife (they proved worthy) - so I currently have a couple of gaps in my Zebralight collection. Having a terrible time being patient for my 700d. My wife has her eye on my last 18650 Zebralight (SC600Fd III) - so I've got some shopping to do. And depending on how much I love the 700d....



Thanks.. I was just comparing it with the 600fd I have... The fd is pure flood, the 700d, well pure light..I wonder, maybe I ought to get on the 700fd list if it comes to pass


----------



## Xenophon

Speaking of those two similar lights (I know it's a bit off topic, but since I'm here...), my Mark III let the light get much hotter than the Mark IV, even when I set the temperature regulation up five degrees the PID would kick in sooner. Was this likely just a difference between two individual lights? The the III vs IV software? Greater heating from a somewhat brighter light?

I liked the extra control of letting it stay brighter but hotter. It let me do, for instance, photos a bit better using the light. I ask this in case I'm...discontent...with the temperature regulation on my 700d. It doesn't sound, from current posts, like I will be if things work as they should, but...?


----------



## radellaf

Well they are, I think, calibrated by lumens. So if you got a less efficient emitter, it would get hotter at the same setting. Or maybe the temperature target is different. If you have an IR thermometer let them both stabilize and see if the quicker-dimming one actually doesn't get as hot as the other.


----------



## likethevegetable

There's a nice review with output, runtime, and temperature measurements on BLF: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/65105


----------



## Derek Dean

Very nice testing done for that review, with, in my opinion, some very good results. Thanks for the link : )


----------



## Swedpat

likethevegetable said:


> There's a nice review with output, runtime, and temperature measurements on BLF: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/65105



Thanks for the link! Runtime graphs are more valuable than numbers. Unfortunately the review misses the graph for 945lm level.


----------



## Keitho

I did my last couple of bicycle commutes at the 945lm level, ave speed 18mph, temps between 27-37 deg F. On the 40T, it lasted a total of 114 minutes at the 945 lumen level. When it stepped down, it was 27 deg F, so the cell probably wasn't performing at its best; measured at 3.24 V on a calibrated Fluke DMM once I got it inside and back to room temp. 

At that level, seems to be drawing right around 2A, getting me about 12.5 Wh out of the 40T. Efficiency seems to be just shy of 150 lumens/W at this level--not bad for high CRI.

I've got it on my handlebar, hotspot pointed down at the ground about 10' ahead of my bike, with Scotch tape diffusing the beam a bit--the 945 lumen level is a perfect compliment to a slightly-throwier helmet mounted light. I have it programmed as a 2-mode light (945 and 1400 lumen levels), so I double-click to go to the slightly-higher level when I want (at least 70 minutes runtime at that level). I think I'll be using 945 lumens for most of my paved surface riding, and might use the 1400-lumen for trails.


----------



## markr6

OK, insane guy is back. I ordered another. I couldn't take it anymore! It's too good of a light to pass up just because I don't like the anodizing. Maybe it will help if I poke myself in the eyes with a spoon.

Oh well, maybe I'll get lucky this time. Very doubtful due to all these being from the same stock, but fingers crossed anyway. More waiting begins now...


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> OK, insane guy is back. I ordered another. I couldn't take it anymore! It's too good of a light to pass up just because I don't like the anodizing. Maybe it will help if I poke myself in the eyes with a spoon.
> 
> Oh well, maybe I'll get lucky this time. Very doubtful due to all these being from the same stock, but fingers crossed anyway. More waiting begins now...



Even if Zebralight hates you, the post office loves you.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Even if Zebralight hates you, the post office loves you.



They should both love me! They keep getting 2x the money from me, or more!


----------



## holygeez03

Mark... if someone on here happens to get a SC700 with really dark anodizing, they would probably swap you if you paid the shipping costs... I know I would because I actually like the olive/green anodizing on their earlier lights.

Unfortunately, I'm not planning on a SC700 at this time...


----------



## Swedpat

Thanks Keitho for report!
That seems good. And I wonder if this light would not be able to sustain 945lm level for more than a short while without overheating even at normal room temperature?


----------



## Keitho

Since the runtime graph for high with no active cooling shows it settling at around 900 lumens after 10 minutes, I'm betting that there is very little dimming due to temp at 945; only slight heat sinking (hand holding) or air movement would probably allow it to maintain 945 for the whole cell's capacity.


----------



## radellaf

holygeez03 said:


> Mark... if someone on here happens to get a SC700 with really dark anodizing, they would probably swap you if you paid the shipping costs...



I'd be happy to, if they ever ship the thing. "3 to 4 weeks" ends in 6 more days, so here's hoping. Doesn't sound like there will be any dark 700s in the immediate future, though.

I got my original, very light, SC600 original repaired (that took months) and am enjoying the nostalgia of 600lm being INCREDIBLE. IDK if it was my first 18650 light but it may have been.


----------



## henry1960

Got mine last week..It is definatley worth the wait..I own almost all of Zebra lights and have to say this is one of my favorites!


----------



## radellaf

ZL CS was good to their word, at the end of 4 weeks of "3-4 weeks," a shipping notice! Should have it to play with by the weekend. Nice.




Charlie Hustle said:


> sp5it said:
> 
> 
> 
> XHP70.2 can't be good in any torch.
> 
> 
> 
> You might as well forget it. It's like a cult.
Click to expand...


So... what say the jury? Seems it's showing up in a few torches, and working well.


----------



## t76turbo

radellaf said:


> ZL CS was good to their word, at the end of 4 weeks of "3-4 weeks," a shipping notice! Should have it to play with by the weekend. Nice.



Same here.


----------



## markr6

Nkon had this in stock for a while now. Has anyone received from them? Since it was possibly from a separate batch, I'm wondering about the anodizing color. Yes, I'm still on that topic


----------



## likethevegetable

Shoot them an email markr6! They're very friendly and responsive. I asked them to hand pick the tint on my last two ZLs and was happy.

Also, for the Canadians here,. It's overall less expensive to order from NKON than it is direct from ZL.


----------



## Mr. LED

markr6 said:


> Nkon had this in stock for a while now. Has anyone received from them? Since it was possibly from a separate batch, I'm wondering about the anodizing color. Yes, I'm still on that topic



NKON had it in stock last week and next day was out. Now it’s back in stock again. Have no idea if they received more or had any returns that went to stock again. Maybe somebody crazy returned because of anodizing color? 

I’m tempted, but if I buy something bigger than my SC600w Mk IV HI, I want more throw :candle:


----------



## ro.ma.

This is mine bought from Nkon as soon as they arrived. The color I do not mind, it is almost back to that of the first SC600. I wanted advice on holster to buy and where.


----------



## markr6

Thanks for the pic. Good looking light! I'll get over the exterior color; now I just hope I didn't screw myself by selling a good LED tint for a bad one! I'm not sure how the tint lottery is going with these, but the SC700d I had was very nice.


----------



## Mr. LED

ro.ma. said:


> This is mine bought from Nkon as soon as they arrived. The color I do not mind, it is almost back to that of the first SC600. I wanted advice on holster to buy and where.



Stop tempting us


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

likethevegetable said:


> Also, for the Canadians here,. It's overall less expensive to order from NKON than it is direct from ZL.



That's good information to know. I might start buying from there, rather than directly from ZL. Looks like the savings is about 10-15%, factoring in postage. The only issue is the cost of currency conversion. I have a US dollar credit card, so buying in USD doesn't cost me anything in conversion. But buying in euros would.


----------



## P220C

The US-Euro conversion was surcharge was insignificant when I ordered my H503C from NKON.


----------



## radellaf

t76turbo said:


> Same here. (shipping notice)



So, how long does it sit at "shipping label" status? Kind of a tease to log the label more than a day or two before getting it in the mail, at least for something that'll probably get here 2-3 days after it's posted. Oh well, waited this long...


----------



## justanotherguy

markr6 said:


> Thanks for the pic. Good looking light! I'll get over the exterior color; now I just hope I didn't screw myself by selling a good LED tint for a bad one! I'm not sure how the tint lottery is going with these, but the SC700d I had was very nice.


 Well if you get one and like the old ones tint better, we can trade... Unless it's like horrible green or something


----------



## markr6

justanotherguy said:


> Well if you get one and like the old ones tint better, we can trade... Unless it's like horrible green or something



How are you liking the one I sold you? In the brief time I used it I really liked the tint and output.


----------



## koziy

Coming from someone who is totally new to Zebralights and now owns flashlights in both colors of anodizing (the H503c LH351D is the lighter gray color as well), I don't feel too strongly about this, but I kind of prefer the lighter gray. It's more visible against a dark background without being some gaudy color like silver. For example, if I am fishing for the light out of a dark backpack, I'll be able to see the lighter gray just a little easier than a dark gray flashlight.


----------



## ro.ma.

Here a comparison with the SC600w IV Plus and the old SC600w mk1. Then more photos of the SC700d.


----------



## justanotherguy

markr6 said:


> How are you liking the one I sold you? In the brief time I used it I really liked the tint and output.


I like it well enough... Not a white wall guy, not too picky on tint.. or ano color 
Great output and run time.... Considering another 700 series light if they announce one... Like a 700f...700fd maybe, like I said, not chasing pure daylight tint...if the 700 is a wall of power, then I'd like the wall of flood cousin..so to speak
If that makes any sense


----------



## markr6

I didn't test mine flush against the wall like that, but from about 8' away at a slight angle it didn't show much yellow.


----------



## Derek Dean

justanotherguy said:


> Considering another 700 series light if they announce one... Like a 700f...700fd maybe, like I said, not chasing pure daylight tint...if the 700 is a wall of power, then I'd like the wall of flood cousin..so to speak
> If that makes any sense


Have you considered placing some diffusion material over the front glass. The Lee Filters sample book which I use to find the filters for fine tuning my tint, also contains a fairly broad selection of diffusing material. I just converted my SC600w MkIV+ to a flooder using a bit of that. Works like a charm, and it's easily reversible if needed.


----------



## justanotherguy

Maybe... But I have no problem having one of each 😊


----------



## likethevegetable

justanotherguy said:


> Maybe... But I have no problem having one of each 



I hear ya on that one... I have an H53c and H53Fc and can say first-hand that DC-Fix is almost identical to the frosted lens.. but why not own both???


----------



## Derek Dean

justanotherguy said:


> Maybe... But I have no problem having one of each 


Ha, I get that, and I'm not trying to dissuade you from owning both, but just like being able to customize the tint of my light, the Lee filters also give me a variety of choices for diffusion, from just softening the spot a bit, to full blown flood, and everywhere in between. 

Just thought I'd mention it for those who might prefer more control over their beam profile.


----------



## justanotherguy

I know mine is a 700d... I just am not one to chase tint... W, C, D....neutral and looks good in actual use..I'm happy..
If I end up with a punchy 21700 and a floody...one ..what happens to the 18650 pair I've been cherishing?


----------



## StorminMatt

Got my shipping notice yesterday. According to tracking, I should have my light on Saturday.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

likethevegetable said:


> I hear ya on that one... I have an H53c and H53Fc and can say first-hand that DC-Fix is almost identical to the frosted lens.. but why not own both???



I have used some home-made diffusion filters for my Zebras. While they work great, and are fairly easy to put on and take off, the extra few seconds of hassle make it a PITA. Also, they're very easy to lose, being so thin and colourless. Far easier to just pick up a frosted light if you want to use it. Or semi-permanently convert one to a frosted version. Either way, you need two identical models.


----------



## stargaz_21

*New Zebra light*

Just got the new Zebra light SC700d and looks great !!


----------



## markr6

*Re: New Zebra light*

I made a big deal over the anodizing color in the SC700d thread. Post a pic of yours if you get a chance since I'm curious in any variation. Thanks!


----------



## Tixx

*Re: New Zebra light*

Damn! Got me all excited! Thought there was a release of something new!


----------



## markr6

*Re: New Zebra light*

Thanks for the pics! Darn...I was hoping to see a dark gray color. I hope my second one ships soon...the first was such a long wait.


----------



## stargaz_21

*Re: New Zebra light*



markr6 said:


> Thanks for the pics! Darn...I was hoping to see a dark gray color. I hope my second one ships soon...the first was such a long wait.



Got the neutral white version.


----------



## markr6

*Re: New Zebra light*



stargaz_21 said:


> Got the neutral white version.



I meant the anodizing on the outside. Zebralights have been a dark gray color lately, but varied depending on the aluminum source. These came out very light/olive. I'm picky


----------



## justanotherguy

*Re: New Zebra light*



stargaz_21 said:


> Got the neutral white version.


There's is only one version, neutral white...
He refers to the physical color of the flashlight body itself....
This is all covered... In the...SC700d thread


----------



## radellaf

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> the extra few seconds of hassle make it a PITA....Far easier to just pick up a frosted light if you want to use it


I remember the old MiniMag came with this rubber hex thing that would hold red or green filters over the end. If there was something like that with a frosted filter, I might use it. These days, of course, with 1000 vs 10 lumens, I have to wonder if the filter or holder would melt.

Got the light last night! Tracking info wasn't updated until it was out for delivery.

Here's a photo of my favorite bit, that massive LED:







Lovely to have the set, and to be able to get the 70 in a tiny light that takes a big battery. It's like an Emisar D4S (same diameter head) that went on a diet.

The color is kinda bad, beam and anodize. The D4S with 4000k XPL has a _lovely_ slightly rosy and warm, but not too yellow, beam. The SC700 has the pukiest of green coronas. The tint is probably a hair to the green of neutral overall. It's not really any worse than my other recent NW ZLs but compared to the Emisar it's quite horrid on a white wall. Walking the neighborhood, I couldn't tell there was a problem. The hotspot is much wider and either one is incredibly bright (3000lm to 4000lm can't really tell especially with the color difference). It does seem like more light comes off the side of the bezel (175-180 degrees) than I'm used to. On high I had to move my hand forward so I didn't get glare in my eyes. I don't remember that from any other flashlights. The larger head vs the SC600 is comfortable. Not sure it's better or worse, but it's fine, and the ability to loaf along at nearly 1000lm is great.

The anodize is "worse" than the SC600 original if you don't like a yellow yellow-green tint. Doesn't seem to show up in this photo, which also includes an old SC60 and SC52.







For first playing with it and comparing it, it's a _bit_ of a disappointment, but all in superficial ways. The Emisar D4S in green with teal aux LEDs was much cooler to play with initially, and is still the more impressive looking light.

The huge single LED instead of a quad is, technically, much cooler, though. And then there's this. On high the SC700 draws about 8 amps, about half what the Emisar does. Twice the price, half the current.

It is lower brightness and a higher color temp, but it's still more efficient with better temperature control. Put it on high and ceiling bounce at night and the room just stays lit. It holds a higher steady-state, and even before I adjust it down -5C, you can pick it up without burning your fingers at any point. Just keep your fingers off the head. Outdoors, it gets hot on the highest setting but you don't feel like it's an aluminum shell over a blowtorch flame. It creeps up to hot. Well, it's using half the current, and feels about like that. Other demonstration of how much more advanced it is showed up while measuring current. DMM? 8A. Strap & clamp? 7.5-8A. It has a real driver, not just a FET switch, so the input impedance can be less than that of the LED itself: it's not precariously dependent on contact and battery resistance. It's just so satisfying, as an EE, to see that. The low is lower than the Emisar, too, so it's a better nightlight. Amazing to go from a glow you can put up to your eye comfortably all the way to 3000lm. The Emisar's teal aux LEDs are still a _cooler_ nightlight, though.

There is battery rattle and it's worse with the 40T. The 50E I don't notice it unless I try. Looking forward to what comes next with 21700 cells. Given the 8A peak drain, I'm going to call myself vindicated that the 40T is complete overkill. ~3000 OTF lumens (I trust) off ~32W input power. Amazing.


----------



## Derek Dean

Nice write up of your first impressions with the new light, radellaf. I concur with your observations. Not just a light to show off, but one that is designed and built to be a worker. Enjoy!


----------



## Hugh Johnson

*Re: New Zebra light*

Lovely light. I think this may become a classic.


----------



## markr6

It was time for this light. It shows we don't need the multi-cell S6330 for big output. But if they bring something like it back or the C3, I won't complain.


----------



## nbp

*Re: New Zebra light*



justanotherguy said:


> Cool. Yet another thread:fail:



You could choose to be helpful and direct a Mod here to merge the threads vs. fussing about it... just a thought. 

Edit: Threads merged.


----------



## justanotherguy

*Re: New Zebra light*

eh, seems like work


----------



## Cpl S

*Re: New Zebra light*



markr6 said:


> I meant the anodizing on the outside. Zebralights have been a dark gray color lately, but varied depending on the aluminum source. These came out very light/olive. I'm picky



Unfortunately, mine also arrived today in virtually the same color ano as yours. It's markedly lighter than all my other ZL's.


----------



## SubLGT

radellaf said:


> Other demonstration of how much more advanced it is showed up while measuring current. DMM? 8A. Strap & clamp? 7.5-8A.
> ....Looking forward to what comes next with 21700 cells. Given the 8A peak drain, I'm going to call myself vindicated that the 40T is complete overkill...



When the Samsung 21700 50E2 cell becomes available it should be a good match for the SC700D



> This is an accurately rated, great performing ultra-high capacity 21700 cell. The datasheet lists the minimum capacity at 4753mAh and standard capacity of 4900mAh. The two 50E2’s I tested delivered 5051mAh and 5062mAh at 1A (0.2C) down to 2.5V. The DC internal resistance measured 20.7mOhms and 20.8mOhms. This is astounding consistency and fantastic to see.....This Samsung 50E2 outperforms the (earlier) Samsung 50E, the Samsung 48G, and the LG M50 samples I recently purchased.... I do not know when the 50E2 will be available for sale or who will carry it but I hope it is soon.



https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...50e2-9-8a-4900mah-21700-great-battery.887711/


----------



## stargaz_21

SubLGT said:


> When the Samsung 21700 50E2 cell becomes available it should be a good match for the SC700D
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...50e2-9-8a-4900mah-21700-great-battery.887711/



Cool, thanks for the info. [emoji41]


----------



## radellaf

Mooch has some great battery info. Little different perspective than lygte but he's another guy with serious test equipment. I sent him a couple of bucks to help.

I'll be looking for the 50E2, but with one 40T and two 50E I'm pretty much set unless I get another/more 21700 flashlights.


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 said:


> It was time for this light. It shows we don't need the multi-cell S6330 for big output. But if they bring something like it back or the C3, I won't complain.


You won't complain? :laughing: 

Come on, I simply couldn't let that slide by :devil:.


----------



## markr6

Derek Dean said:


> You won't complain? :laughing:
> 
> Come on, I simply couldn't let that slide by :devil:.



Well played  I'm sure I would find something.


----------



## carmen

It seems the 700d is very new on the market, but has anyone had time to post beamshots, comparisons etc. yet?


----------



## Derek Dean

carmen said:


> It seems the 700d is very new on the market, but has anyone had time to post beamshots, comparisons etc. yet?



Pages 12 and 13 of this thread have beamshots I posted compared to my SC600w MkIV+.


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 said:


> Well played  I'm sure I would find something.


I would hope so, Mark. We count on you to keep ZL on their toes : )


----------



## stargaz_21

carmen said:


> It seems the 700d is very new on the market, but has anyone had time to post beamshots, comparisons etc. yet?



I will soon , just ordered some 21700 battery’s and a hohm tech pulse charger.


----------



## stargaz_21

stargaz_21 said:


> I will soon , just ordered some 21700 battery’s and a hohm tech pulse charger.



Got some Sony Murata VTC6A 21700 4000mAh 30A Battery’s. Let you know how they preform.


----------



## carmen

Derek Dean said:


> Pages 12 and 13 of this thread have beamshots I posted compared to my SC600w MkIV+.


Derek, I looked at those pages and found posts by you but no beamshot. Whats the posts number?


moozooh said:


> Dude, please stop. Your misguided criticism and counterproductive "suggestions" don't contribute to meaningful discussion and aren't really helping anything except making you look like a frustrated person.
> 
> 1. It was never 4000K. Like Bob_McBob said, all "d" ("daylight") models are 5000K.
> 
> 2. ZL evidently don't care about producing "killer throwers". They've only made, like, two or three smooth-reflector models in the last 7 years or so I've been following them. They care about producing general-purpose, bright, power-efficient lights. Oslon Black Flat (which is what, 5W max?), unsurprisingly, is a poor fit for any of those—it's only useful for pencil-beam lights which are an extreme niche even among flashlight enthusiasts. I suppose you're free to mod an SC700d, but I'm not sure it sounds quite as enticing as you make it. I'm not even sure it would throw very well with such a shallow reflector.
> 
> 3. The LED used in this light, 90+ CRI 5000K XHP70.2, has its maximum power draw rated at 29W—you can check it on Cree's site. Under any normal conditions (e.g. not being water-cooled or anything) it can only sustain 3000 lm for several seconds at that power before heating up and being throttled down by the PID controller to begin with. ZL tend to push their LEDs to the limit of the spec, but I don't remember them significantly exceeding it even once. But even if they did, it would still be throttled down to below 3000 instantly—so it would actually spend even less time at a high brightness as it would heat up quicker. It would also hurt battery compatibility and drastically reduce the window of battery charge state at which you can still turn the light on H1 as the side-effect owing to insane voltage sag. Why would they want that? Why would _you_?
> 
> Basically, what all of this suggests is that you want a completely different light from a completely different company, so you might want to visit a completely different thread instead.


----------



## Derek Dean

carmen said:


> Derek, I looked at those pages and found posts by you but no beamshot. Whats the posts number?


Posts #355 & 374 : )


----------



## radellaf

Here's a beamshot comparison. Coop is 50-60 ft from the back door. Emisars are 4000K: D4S is the Cree XP-L HI 5D, D4 is Cree XP-G2 S4 5D. Camera 1/25th, f1.8, ISO800, WB5000K.




(click for larger without text)


----------



## Derek Dean

Nice beamshots.


----------



## StorminMatt

I got my SC700d last Saturday. In the last few days, I have been able to test the light on a hike. And overall, I am quite pleased with it. First and foremost, the tint is pretty much as others here have described it. The hotspot and spill are quite nice. But there IS a rather ugly yellowish green corona. Nothing too objectionable when outdoors. But it is certainly not the perfect tint of, say, my SC600Fc. Even my SC600Fd does LOTS better, perhaps due to the frosted lens. On the other hand, color rendition is quite nice despite this. I particular, the red Christmas Berries and orange soil were rendered quite nicely. I’m not sure what the R9 rating is, but it is not bad.

It goes without saying that this light is BRIGHT. LOTS brighter than, say, an SC600. It also does a remarkable job at maintaining brightness on the higher settings. As others have said, this light is perfectly capable of running indefinitely at the ~1400 lumen H2 setting. This is, of course, largely due to the larger thermal mass and surface area of the bigger light. But it is also possibly due to the higher efficiency of the XHP70.2 vs the XHP50 in the SC600 models. I should also note that the beam is quite nice for the outdoors. It is nice and floody due to the large emitter. But it throws well enough because of its sheer output.

The 21700 form factor is a REAL nice change from 18650 lights. The light may not be as pocket friendly as 18650 lights like the SC600Fc. But it is (at least in my opinion) more HAND friendly than 18650 lights. In a way, it feels more like a C cell Mag or a 26650 light than an 18650 light. And that’s a GOOD thing. It’s MUCH more comfortable on a long hike. And I am less worried about dropping it due to the more ergonomic size.

Speaking of 21700, another thing I LOVE about this light is the runtime afforded by the larger battery. I can run this light on H2 (~1400 lumens) for a full 1.5 hour hike! And the light STILL has some battery left afterwards. Want to do the same with an 18650? DREAM ON!!! This is a GREAT thing since I no longer have to fumble in the dark with cold hands trying to replace a battery. Speaking of batteries, I am using the 50E. It works just FINE, even on H1. Current draw on H1 is about 8A, which is perfectly within the capabilities of the battery. I see no reason to opt for the 40T over the 50E.

All in all, it is a GREAT light. Tint may not be perfect. But sheer output, color rendition, and beam quality are AWESOME. The form factor is better (in my opinion) than 18650 lights. And the 21700 gives you LOTS of runtime. It is quite possibly one of the best outdoor lights I have ever owned!


----------



## burntoshine

How are the Samsung 21700 batteries that Zebralight is selling? Are they pretty decent? Otherwise, does anyone have a recommendation on batteries for this light?

I just picked up a Nitecore UMS2 charger. It seems like a great little charger so far.

I haven't bought a light in a while, but this one has my attention.


----------



## Cpl S

burntoshine said:


> How are the Samsung 21700 batteries that Zebralight is selling? Are they pretty decent? Otherwise, does anyone have a recommendation on batteries for this light?



There's a good exchange quite a few pages back regarding the batteries that work well, work better and may be overkill. Like Storminmatt said, at max, the light pulls 8amps from the battery. So whichever battery you choose, just know that it doesn't need to pulse 30amps. The 50E seems pretty popular here. 

I use Samsung 30T's, but only because I got 10 free. This is overkill for this light and you can get much higher capacities with others.


----------



## radellaf

40T are fine 4000mAh batteries, 50E are better unless you're on turbo all the time (as in intermittently, so it cools off and can use over 3-4A). Check the tests at lygte and mooch for specific data. The 50E2, whenever available, should be great for this light. The light isn't that picky, though, since it's not DD. A less than optimal battery will reduce runtime rather than brightness (until it's bad enough to make the light step down, which would be pretty bad).

As StorminMatt basically said, the best points of this ZL over the SC600 series are:
* Easier to grip as it fills my fairly large hands rather than having fingers to spare. This involves fingers forward of the switch, which is dangerous on an Emisar, but:
* Loafs along at 945lm without getting more than slightly warm.
* Between the 5Ah 21700 vs a 3Ah 18650 cell, and the efficiency, it runs longer.

So really the only thing worse, unless the size is a problem for you rather than an advantage, is that it costs more and needs a new size of battery.

I did a quick video of the beam outdoors at some trees 150ft away. It wasn't as dark as I remembered out there and the atmosphere was full of annoying particulates tonight.

Still image at maximum. Pretty much what it looked like. It lit those trees up beautifully. Probably could have made the trees 100 ft further down the road visible if I could see anything but blue fog from backscatter. I guess that's what throwers are for.





Indoors, back of the warehouse is maybe 60 ft. Really lights the whole place up, but figure they'd prefer if I didn't show anything identifiable.


----------



## burntoshine

Thanks, y'all! I will look back in this thread for the battery discussion. And thank you for the links, radellaf!



Does anyone know when ZL is supposed to have the light back in stock?

EDIT: ZL told me 5 to 15 business days.


----------



## likethevegetable

Thanks for the observations, randellaf and StorminMatt. I sometimes wish my SC600w IV Plus was a bit longer so my pinky would have a place to rest, but then I pocket it and am happy with the size. Seems like the 700s would be perfect for me ergonomically speaking.

Do you use it with a pocket clip? 

I find with the SC600 clip it's unpleasant to use so I rarely have it on. Because of that, I'm really glad they have the lanyard attachment because it prevents the light from rolling. I haven't seen the lanyard attachment on the SC700


----------



## tech25

Thanks for the beam shots. This is the first SC light from ZL -since I got the SC600w (original one)- that perked my interest.


----------



## JStraus

So, can anyone who has the 700d tell me if it will reach our farther than the other ZL's? How would it compare in throw (or since kinda floody is why I say 'reach') to the SC600w HI?

I really want one, but I'd like to know with its extra size and output if it has more reach.

I love my SC600Fd III but suspect that the 700 would have much more reach than this, and my SC64w HI.

Any feedback is appreciated!


----------



## radellaf

See my comparison beamshots. The 3 Hi probably doesn't put as much light (candlepower?) at beam center but it's a heck of a lot easier to see what's there unless it's a clear and dry day. There were numbers for the hi vs the plus if you look around. Scaling up the plus to 3000 should be close enough, and IIRC correctly the plus was already a little higher.

I don't use any of the not-screwed-on clips. I might if I had to carry them a lot. As is I'll just grab the SC62 or 64 and accept less light for the better clip.


----------



## Nichia!

So many of you guys received the light and no video review yet!!??


----------



## id30209

Nichia! said:


> So many of you guys received the light and no video review yet!!??



Huge +1!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

radellaf said:


> See my comparison beamshots. The 3 Hi probably doesn't put as much light (candlepower?) at beam center but it's a heck of a lot easier to see what's there unless it's a clear and dry day. There were numbers for the hi vs the plus if you look around. Scaling up the plus to 3000 should be close enough, and IIRC correctly the plus was already a little higher.



Yes, throw numbers are very misleading when it comes to real-world use. The SC600w HI beam is just about perfect for seeing stuff in the distance. It's large enough not to give a tunnel effect, but the spill is dim enough and the hotspot small enough that it doesn't blind you when you use it. Your pupils can stay open so you can see what the light is shining on in the distance.

Most other Zebralights (especially the 600w Plus and probably the 700d) have a much larger hotspot and a lot brighter spill. So when you put the light on max, all that close-up light bouncing back on you from the foreground immediately blinds you. It makes seeing anything in the distance almost impossible. It's very impressive for moderate distances, but not much good for longer distances, even if the "throw" numbers say otherwise.


----------



## carmen

I saw afew comments on the greenish tint, and I guess seeing this irl is the best way to understand what it really means. So, you owners who had a chance of testing it a bit - how bad is it really? Would you reconsider buyng it if you knew what you know now?


----------



## StorminMatt

carmen said:


> I saw afew comments on the greenish tint, and I guess seeing this irl is the best way to understand what it really means. So, you owners who had a chance of testing it a bit - how bad is it really? Would you reconsider buyng it if you knew what you know now?



Depends on what you mean by ‘bad’. It is DEFINITEY noticeable if you are white wall hunting. But it is a whole lot less noticeable in the field. In other words, it is (at least in my opinion) perfectly acceptable for an actual working flashlight. I would DEFINITELY still buy the light if I knew about this beforehand. Aside from the green corona, this light has LOTS going for it.


----------



## radellaf

Did some ceiling bounce experiments with the camera as light meter between my two brightest, the D4S (full batt) and the SC700d (doesn't matter batt). Got +0.3EV, a ratio of 1.266:1, and 3000*1.26=3780 lumens. Pretty close to the 4000lm estimate for the (probably 5000K) D4S XP-L version. Yay, math. The D4S in the beamshots was probably at about 3.9V. Frankly, I'm fine with that. At 15A+ on turbo, the battery is drained so fast that it verges on dishonest to be quoting the first minute's lumens _per battery charge_.

For the SC600m3Hi vs SC700d, harder to really test, but at ISO100 1/800 f4.9 I can get EV readings in the +-2.0 range. The HI is about 0.3 brighter center hotspot. The D4S is 1.0 to 1.3 more, which is a full twice as much light or a bit more (EV is a logarithmic scale). This is about at 3 feet so not sure how that correlates with the 50+ foot beam, but it should be in the ballpark.


----------



## stargaz_21

StorminMatt said:


> Depends on what you mean by ‘bad’. It is DEFINITEY noticeable if you are white wall hunting. But it is a whole lot less noticeable in the field. In other words, it is (at least in my opinion) perfectly acceptable for an actual working flashlight. I would DEFINITELY still buy the light if I knew about this beforehand. Aside from the green corona, this light has LOTS going for it.



Mine the SC700d 21700 XHP70.2 Neutral White High CRI Flashlight has no greenish tint I preordered it back in November of last year. Just now received it a few days ago. Love it


----------



## ven

Very nice star, but the clock has stole the show..................very coooool


----------



## SubLGT

stargaz_21 said:


> Mine the SC700d 21700 XHP70.2 Neutral White High CRI Flashlight has no greenish tint...



On my monitor I see a yellowish green corona in your photo. Do you see it on your wall?


----------



## radellaf

That's about what it looks like at close range. Center beam has no tint (by my eyes and camera) but there's that same corona that all the new ZLs have. It's not any _worse_ than the others, though. Maybe not as bad. The SC53c one I could notice outdoors on the sidewalk, even if it wasn't a big deal. With the SC700 I don't notice it at all. Ceiling bounce WB, the RX100 reports 5000K with "M1" correction in the green-magenta axis, so it's correcting for a slight green tint. AB is 0 so there's no blue-yellow shift off the BBL. I get the same M1 tint from my best ZL, the SC62w. SC700 Hotspot was 5400K, no tint.


----------



## Keitho

carmen said:


> I saw afew comments on the greenish tint, and I guess seeing this irl is the best way to understand what it really means. So, you owners who had a chance of testing it a bit - how bad is it really? Would you reconsider buyng it if you knew what you know now?


After a few weeks, haven't used it except outdoors, and haven't noticed tint issues. If you're planning on using it with bare feet indoors to light walls, it might be the wrong light. If you're going to use it with shoes on, no need to hesitate.


----------



## stargaz_21

I tested it again at full brightness and see no greenish tint , it might be the camera on my phone , but to me naked eye i see no greenish tint.


----------



## twistedraven

Looks like the usual Cree beam profile-- green corona blue spill. Not my cup of tea. These days I'm so picky I only use flat emitters and/or optics that can largely avoid those tint shift issues. And yes, I do notice the tint shift outside as well.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

twistedraven said:


> Looks like the usual Cree beam profile-- green corona blue spill. Not my cup of tea. These days I'm so picky I only use flat emitters and/or optics that can largely avoid those tint shift issues. And yes, I do notice the tint shift outside as well.



Yeah, I get it. But with Cree emitters, that limits you to only the XP-L HI and the XHP35 HI. Nice emitters, but they limit you to around 2000 lumens even when over-driven (which Zebralight doesn't like to do). Other brands (like Nichia) aren't as efficient, nor as bright. So, for high-output lights, you're either stuck with the tint shifts, or have to go with multi-emitter flooders.


----------



## radellaf

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> you're either stuck with the tint shifts, or have to go with multi-emitter flooders.



Well I have to say, when you're comparing to Zebralights like the SC700, flooders is a relative term. The D4S is quad emitter but has a tighter beam.

I get how the cree beam isn't a good thing, but as long as I know it's what I'm getting, I'll accept it until technology improves. I have plenty of lights without that tint shift (like the Lux T SC52) if I'm feeling particularly bothered by it at the time.

The SC64c LE with the Samsung LH351D is really tempting me too much considering what I just dropped on the SC700d. Fortunately, I've returned to my no-more-preorders (or back-orders) mentality, so the decision on that light will either be delayed or rendered moot.


----------



## markr6

My second SC700d just shipped. I want to cross my fingers for a "dark anodizing" this time, but we all know the odds of that. Regardless, I can't wait to get it...and keep it this time!


----------



## GeoBruin

markr6 said:


> My second SC700d just shipped. I want to cross my fingers for a "dark anodizing" this time, but we all know the odds of that. Regardless, I can't wait to get it...and keep it this time!


If you were able to place a second order and have it shipped, they must be close to clearing out the back order. Maybe it's time to order one myself...


----------



## markr6

GeoBruin said:


> If you were able to place a second order and have it shipped, they must be close to clearing out the back order. Maybe it's time to order one myself...



You never know for sure. The first was ordered 10/24, shipped 12/20. This second was ordered 1/7 and shipped 1/29. I believe the status has always been 'Back Order' to this day.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> My second SC700d just shipped. I want to cross my fingers for a "dark anodizing" this time, but we all know the odds of that. Regardless, I can't wait to get it...and keep it this time!



We should start a betting pool on whether or not you'll send it back. :green:


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> We should start a betting pool on whether or not you'll send it back. :green:



You mean sell it, like I've been doing? I would only send back if there was something really wrong with it. There's always a possibility.


----------



## justanotherguy

markr6 said:


> You mean sell it, like I've been doing? I would only send back if there was something really wrong with it. There's always a possibility.


Hmmm if you do.........
:twothumbs


----------



## burntoshine

I just received my light and it's going right back. Two defects: There is a large blob of solder on the tail cap contact that prevents the body and tail cap from flush contact. This is a serious flaw. Also, the four quadrants of the LED do not light up evenly; one quadrant is significantly brighter than the other three. 

I feel like I could possibly look past the LED issue, but two separate issues is a definite no-go for me; especially an electrical contact problem. This is so disappointing. I haven't been this excited for a flashlight in years, literally. I bought a new charger and batteries for it. And then I get a lemon.

Take a good look at your lights. Their quality control is waning. I've been a huge fan of ZL since the beginning. I bought my first one from the OG four sevens store, before 7777 made their own lights. This would make light #10 in my possession. I have gifted three of them, sold two, and only returned one other; the dual-fuel SC80w, which had an improper fit on the o-ring. I almost returned my SC52w because it flickers like crazy on the moonlight mode. I decided to live with that defect for some reason, probably to avoid the hassle. All together, this was light #16 for me, if I count correctly.

They make some of the best lights, in my opinion. I hope they can get me a proper working model. This one seems like a fantastic light. So bummed, though..


----------



## stargaz_21

This is how it should look like at lowest setting.







Having all four quadrants evenly lit. Must be a defect in your light, wish you the best of luck.


----------



## markr6

My second light tracking updated to being delivered today, but I had it shipped to work. That always happens on Saturdays!! Something to look forward to on Monday...


----------



## burntoshine

..Yeah, not so much..

Here's mine:




..And the solder blob:







The solder blob is a serious defect. I wonder how many employees saw this and thought it was acceptable. I really didn't need those red arrows. These pictures look a lot better here than on my phone.


Thanks for the comparison pic, stargaz 21! Mine is indeed double defective.

I hope that ano. is dark, Mr. mark! At least your wait won't be as bad as mine. I hope they put defective exchanges to the front of the queue. I hate the wait. I was worried there would be an increased risk of defects due to the back order and ZL rushing to fulfill orders. They should show my light to QC.


----------



## SubLGT

A solder blob is very easy to get rid of with a soldering iron and suction bulb.


----------



## xevious

burntoshine said:


> The solder blob is a serious defect. I wonder how many employees saw this and thought it was acceptable. I really didn't need those red arrows. These pictures look a lot better here than on my phone.


Wow, so sorry to hear you've had to deal with this *BurnToShine*. That solder blob is completely unacceptable, and is not in line with earlier ZL QC. Given the more recent topics about ZL issues, it does seem they've made a bad decision on production somewhere. QC is not up to snuff. That solder blob could have been manually taken care of in a QC cycle. But no, it ended up in a customer's hands. Sad to see ZL's best days are behind them, at least at the moment. Maybe it might be worth an email campaign to the company from the Flashlight community... see if that'll jolt them awake to the issues.


----------



## ven

That is poor, I hope you give them another chance/go with all that waiting , then to be let down. ZL will come through, just unfortunately not too quickly.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Maybe if you send them a pic they can just send a new tailcap out to you quickly without needing to wait for a complete return to be processed.


----------



## ven

There is the die issue though as well. A double fail from ZL


----------



## koziy

I placed a back order for one of these on 1/28, it shipped on 1/30, and it was delivered today, 2/2. I don't notice any defects with mine, unlike other people. The anodizing color is within the range of extremes I've seen on other ZL flashlights, the tailcap lacks any ugly soldering blobs, the LED appears to be evenly illuminated in all quadrants, and it works fine. I was really surprised at how small the light is. The reflector diameter is as fat as an Emisar 4DS, but the body diameter is only a little wider than something like a Convoy S2+ or BLF A6. The body diameter counts for a lot when I am trying to put other items into my pocket, like a hand. The reflector does imprint through the fabric quite a bit, but with the right attire (casual, loose, etc.), it wouldn't be _that difficult_ to EDC one of these in a front pants pocket.

There is a little battery rattle with Samsung 30T and 40T batteries, but it's side to side rattle: I can't get the light to flicker by shaking it. Efest IMR 21700 3700mAh 35A batteries are too fat to even fit into the flashlight.


----------



## radellaf

I wouldn't even try to fix the bum light, just let ZL know and it'll be fixed. It's rare but looks like they did mess up on that one. Sorry to hear.


----------



## NPL

Review of the light posted by someone else here:

Includes many photos, runtime chart and beamshots:
https://1lumen.com/18650-reviews/zebralight-sc700d/


----------



## Mr. LED

I’ve been looking on the pictures for the split ring on the SC700d but it seems it doesn’t have it? I like it on my SC600w to attach lanyard.


----------



## burntoshine

It's the ones we love that hurt us the most, LOL.

ZL is all around me. My SC62w dethroned my HDS years ago for my primary EDC. I just love those runtimes and brightness levels. And it's taken countless hard hits onto unforgiving surfaces without any change in function; just a bunch of tiny dings to it's aluminum shell. That thing goes with me everywhere. When I head into work I switch to my SC52w, with my SC62w and SC32w standing by as backup. One of my passions is riding my mountain bikes all over the streets and hills of town, and always with me are the H600w mkII, H600w mkI (backup), and SC32w (clipped to belt). If it's dark out, the H600w mkII is on my noggin. (But, since Friday, I now also carry my HDS clicky with me, too.) The H302w has been invaluable for up close work around the house, especially when you have to kill the breaker and wire stuff up. When slumbering, the SC32w is resting my my nightstand, on the lowest of low, shining it's moon-like light on the SC62w, so I can see and grab my '62 when things go bump. (The SC700d will be taking over the 'bump in the night' duty, whenever I get a good one.) My H501w has been converted a desk lamp of sorts in my lair, in the basement, and gets used several times a day.

I'm not looking forward to more waiting, having no clue when I'll get the light I paid for, and hoping that they freaking check the light before they send it out. This has left a very sour taste in my mouth and I've lost quite a bit of faith in ZL. I have already noticed I don't have the confidence in their lights that I had a week ago. Two defects in one light is a little ridiculous. I haven't bought a light in a while, and when I do, it's double defecto?? It's quite the bummer. I'm like a little kid at christmas when I get a new light. Well, this "christmas" sucked pretty hard. It's a bit depressing how many mistakes I encounter in everyday life. Yeah, like everyone else, I'm not perfect, but sometimes I feel like one of the very few who are mindful of what they're doing and actually care enough to check my own work. I should probably stop typing and try to go back to bed. I've got a bathroom exhaust fan vent to install in the morning because guess what?.. Some charlatan installed an exhaust fan that was venting directly into insulation in our attic. That's right, someone did just enough work to get paid. I can't believe that a previous homeowner would have done this to their own home; it must have been someone that was hired. Somehow there's no mold. Perhaps because there was nearly zero airflow, which explains why the darned thing didn't really seem to work. So I'm going to cut a nice 4 1/4" hole in the ol' roof in the a.m. I don't mean to be super negative, but my poor opinion of the general population is constantly reinforced. Please excuse this little rant; I'm merely _venting._

Of course I won't give up on ZL so easily. They're deeply imbedded in my soul. LOL. But as a rule, when things reach a certain point of failure in my life, they are dead to me. We're not there, yet. I am exchanging for a replacement, so I will see how it goes...


----------



## stargaz_21

xevious said:


> Wow, so sorry to hear you've had to deal with this *BurnToShine*. That solder blob is completely unacceptable, and is not in line with earlier ZL QC. Given the more recent topics about ZL issues, it does seem they've made a bad decision on production somewhere. QC is not up to snuff. That solder blob could have been manually taken care of in a QC cycle. But no, it ended up in a customer's hands. Sad to see ZL's best days are behind them, at least at the moment. Maybe it might be worth an email campaign to the company from the Flashlight community... see if that'll jolt them awake to the issues.



I would give them another chance, I bought flashlight from them before and had no problems. Probably just got a lemon, I would send them the picture of the bad tail-cap.


----------



## burntoshine

stargaz_21 said:


> I would give them another chance, I bought flashlight from them before and had no problems. Probably just got a lemon, I would send them the picture of the bad tail-cap.



Oh, I am for sure. While my last few posts may seem a little dramatic, I'm halfway being silly about it. And feeling sorry for myself feels kinda good sometimes.

I'm not going to bother with sending them the picture, they'll have the real thing soon enough.

I was thinking, the LED defect could very well be from the LED manufacturer and nothing that ZL did wrong. Also, I feel like that could easily get missed, since you can only see it at the low levels; and if someone just glanced at the LED on a lower level to check for functionality, they might not notice the difference in brightness amongst the quadrants. It most likely lights up unevenly at the higher levels, too, but how the heck could you tell that at hundreds of lumens?.. not likely. So it could very likely be a coincidence that a bad LED just happened to end up in a light where the employee(s) in question missed the tail cap issue. I'm trying to use the old brain a little since my emotions have settled down a bit, and give a smidgen of the benefit of the doubt, or whatever. Still, this needs to be one of those moments in a meeting at work in QC where they pass around the bad part that made it to the customer; 'cause that one is quite a doozy.

I apologize if my last post was a bit of oversharing and/or weird and/or off-topic. I woke up in the middle of the night in a weird mood and had a little too much of something or another. And I'm a bit of a dork.

The vent hood installation went swimmingly. I was really nervous about cutting a big hole in our roof, especially since that was a first for me. And our roof has a high-ish pitch.

I'll report back when my replacement arrives...


----------



## ven

I enjoyed the read burntoshine


----------



## Mr. LED

After resisting for almost a month, I’ve just placed an order


----------



## justanotherguy

I'm kinda hoping the SC700fd rumour is true.. Best of both worlds ..


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

justanotherguy said:


> I'm kinda hoping the SC700fd rumour is true.. Best of both worlds ..



If you like really floody lights. I only find them useful as headlamps, or I suppose indoors. I prefer a bit of usable throw in a hand-held light. I find the regular 12-degree hotspot in most Zebralights, already floody enough for outdoor use.


----------



## koziy

justanotherguy said:


> I'm kinda hoping the SC700fd rumour is true.. Best of both worlds ..



The beam of the SC700d is already really wide and bright in the spill. I wouldn't think that a flood diffuser would have much benefit.


----------



## burntoshine

ven said:


> I enjoyed the read burntoshine



Awesome!

Right on, my brother! That makes me feel slightly less silly for oversharing. 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress...


----------



## koziy

burntoshine said:


> Awesome!
> 
> Right on, my brother! That makes me feel slightly less silly for oversharing.
> 
> We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress...



No such thing as oversharing on a message board. People can always choose to skim or ignore what you wrote, but writing extra is always food for thought. In fact, your post got me peering at the LEDs in all my Zebralights now to check for flaws. This is my SC600w IV HI:


----------



## burntoshine

koziy said:


> No such thing as oversharing on a message board. People can always choose to skim or ignore what you wrote, but writing extra is always food for thought. In fact, your post got me peering at the LEDs in all my Zebralights now to check for flaws. This is my SC600w IV HI:



I suspect you are correct. This is a pret-ty darned neat little community here. 

..Yet don't fret, my fellow flashaholic. That's no defect. That's a SCS-86B particle diverter. You see, light is both a wave and a particle. The waves and particles have a tendency to interfere with each other when in close proximity. Think of the three stooges driving an old jalopy down a busy road. We all know they are going to bump into every car they come across. They just can't seem to stay in their lane. It's just about the exact same situation with the waves and particles. Particles are basically just a bunch of rude, oblivious nincompoops. Now, this seems to happen only in flashlights, Zebralights specifically. The rest of the natural world doesn't seem to have this problem. But, in spite of their bad luck, or whatever it is, Zebralight has managed to engineer a diverter that redirects these jerk-like particles to a separate, but sub-identical pathway, allowing them to stream along side their wavy counterparts, in peaceful harmony. It's quite beautiful, really; when you really, really think about it. As technology advances, Zebralight is able to create these diverters, these things of beauty, at a smaller and smaller size. But in our current technological state, the diverters remain visible to the human eye. I'm sure Zebralight knows what they are doing. It's best not to ask any questions.

I hope this helps.

cheers


----------



## markr6

koziy said:


> No such thing as oversharing on a message board.



Except when it's me complaining 

I'll be receiving my mail here in about 30 minutes...so let's hope my second SC700d is as good, or hopefully better, than the first. Looking back I should have kept that but I was hoping for the dark anodizing color. I'm not expecting this one to be any different, but I had to at least try.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> Except when it's me complaining
> 
> I'll be receiving my mail here in about 30 minutes...so let's hope my second SC700d is as good, or hopefully better, than the first. Looking back I should have kept that but I was hoping for the dark anodizing color. I'm not expecting this one to be any different, but I had to at least try.



Just don't start complaining about the tint of the cardboard box it comes in!


----------



## markr6

Box looks great 

Anodizing is the same light color but otherwise flawless. Cap/threads perfect. Nice quiet but firm switch. Cell is currently 3.64v on the charger so I'll wait a few more minutes to give it a test, then finish the charge.

p.s. Couldn't wait so I gave it a quick 10 second test. Nice tint, exactly like the first one I had. It's a keeper!


----------



## ChibiM

Just posted my review on the SC700d here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...view-Zebralight-SC700d-XHP70-2-(-2700-lumens) 

My first Zebralight, but it's definitely a winner..


----------



## markr6

What a great "first" Zebralight! Checking out the review now.

Still cooking my 21700, up to 3.81v at 1500mA.


----------



## markr6

Still not my preferred anodizing color, but it'll do. Such an amazing light!!


----------



## K2-bk-bl-rd

The Ano color on that SC700d actually looks about perfect to me! I may have to order one, once they become available in 4000k.


----------



## markr6

What's with the clip though? It's the same as the SC600 series but doesn't fit this light at all! I think it was more laziness/cost than an actual oversight. It's too wide to fit into the groove, but too big to fit nicely inside the "outer" groove. It just wobbles.


----------



## justanotherguy

Is it darker? You keeping it?


LoL


----------



## markr6

I want to say it's darker, but without comparing it's probably just my eyes playing tricks. It's definitely a keeper though even if I don't care for the lighter color.

And the clip deal, what a joke. Thankfully this size light won't be clipped to anything, so it was just more of an anti-roll device for me.


----------



## Mattz68

I’m with you 100% on that if they ever decide to do “c” version that’s not yellow (5000k...Hi-cri or not is too cool for me)


----------



## Mr. LED

markr6 said:


> I want to say it's darker, but without comparing it's probably just my eyes playing tricks. It's definitely a keeper though even if I don't care for the lighter color.
> 
> And the clip deal, what a joke. Thankfully this size light won't be clipped to anything, so it was just more of an anti-roll device for me.



Does it have the split ring attached to the body, like the SC600?


----------



## markr6

Mr. LED said:


> Does it have the split ring attached to the body, like the SC600?



I totally forgot about that. No bump for a ring. It's a "roller" but at least the head is big enough for a fairly stable stand.


----------



## koziy

markr6 said:


> What's with the clip though? It's the same as the SC600 series but doesn't fit this light at all! I think it was more laziness/cost than an actual oversight. It's too wide to fit into the groove, but too big to fit nicely inside the "outer" groove. It just wobbles.



It's not sized to fit in the groove by the head, which is unfortunate because some people might want to carry it with the head outside of their pocket. However, it fits into the groove by the tail on mine perfectly, with no wobble at all.


----------



## markr6

I obviously got a dud. CAN'T WIN!!! Mine looks nothing like the photos from ChibiM or others I see online. My clip straddles the groove, so it always pops off or gets loose with any movement.

Upon closer inspection I can see there was material that should have been cut out to make the groove wider, allowing the clip to fit.

Here's a closeup:








If you look close at the bottom, you can see a slight indentation where the tool, die (I don't know the terminology) was supposed to remove the aluminum but didn't.


Compared to ChibiM's photo:






I am assuming I'm not the only one that will experience this. I'm guessing a whole batch was made this way, recently sent and currently in stock. Wow.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> I totally forgot about that. No bump for a ring. It's a "roller" but at least the head is big enough for a fairly stable stand.



No ring??? This is not a light I'd want to use with a pocket clip. I seldom use the pocket clip on even the SC600's. The 700 certainly looks too big for pocket-carry. A lanyard (attached to a split ring) is the way to go. That's really weird they didn't design it like the 600's.


----------



## markr6

I just can't believe I got another defect...a major one. I think I'm finally done with Zebralight after this, whether or not I get a replacement for this one. As so many posts have proven over the past 7+ years, it's just like rolling the dice every time.


----------



## Mr. LED

markr6 said:


> I totally forgot about that. No bump for a ring. It's a "roller" but at least the head is big enough for a fairly stable stand.



:shakehead :fail:


----------



## SubLGT

markr6 said:


> I just can't believe I got another defect...a major one. I think I'm finally done with Zebralight after this, whether or not I get a replacement for this one. As so many posts have proven over the past 7+ years, it's just like rolling the dice every time.



In addition to the ZL tint lottery, we now have the ZL defect lottery?


----------



## tonkem

markr6 said:


> I just can't believe I got another defect...a major one. I think I'm finally done with Zebralight after this, whether or not I get a replacement for this one. As so many posts have proven over the past 7+ years, it's just like rolling the dice every time.



Unless they come out with the Q50  I am sure you will be back to Zebralight soon, Markr6. You love them too much.


----------



## markr6

tonkem said:


> Unless they come out with the Q50  I am sure you will be back to Zebralight soon, Markr6. You love them too much.



Probably, they’re the only flashlights I like these days. I already got a quick response and an RMA to send it back. So now the question is, do I buy another or assume they were all like this (latest batch)?


----------



## tonkem

Yeah, I hear you. I normally carry my Sc600 MKIII or SC63. None of the new lights have screamed at me to buy, as there really hasn't been any significant increase in output. If I want big lumens, I reach for my Meteor M43. I prefer the 5700 to 6500K tints and it seems Zebra is not making many lights with those cooler tints. Oh well, cannot win them all.


----------



## tech25

markr6 said:


> Probably, they’re the only flashlights I like these days. I already got a quick response and an RMA to send it back. So now the question is, do I buy another or assume they were all like this (latest batch)?



Send a note specifying what the problem was and ask them to check it prior to shipping.


----------



## NPL

markr6 said:


> Probably, they’re the only flashlights I like these days. I already got a quick response and an RMA to send it back. So now the question is, do I buy another or assume they were all like this (latest batch)?


I doubt they would send you a defective replacement light...


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

tech25 said:


> Send a note specifying what the problem was and ask them to check it prior to shipping.





tech25 said:


> Send a note specifying what the problem was and ask them to check it prior to shipping.



Yeah, I think that's the better way to do it, if you really want to have a SC700d. If you cancel and reorder later, maybe you'll get the same defect (if they made a bunch of them).

But if you ask for a replacement, and put a note in your order for them to check it, then if you get another dud with the same problem, they deserve to be flamed into oblivion. I can't imagine they would be that clueless.


----------



## burntoshine

Holy smokes!! Sorry to hear that, Mark. The people posting on this forum are a small sample of their customers. It makes me wonder how many defects they are sending out.

What's really sad is I just placed an order for another light. Since the light is in stock, I figured I could possibly get a good light sooner that relying on their returns to be processed, which could have a back log. I could sell one if by some miracle I get two good lights. 

To be continued...


----------



## burntoshine

markr6 said:


> I am assuming I'm not the only one that will experience this. I'm guessing a whole batch was made this way, recently sent and currently in stock. Wow.



Depending on ZL's shop setup and number they are producing, it may not be an entire batch that's affected. They could be producing these on multiple machines using multiple employees. So this specific problem could be isolated to just one of those machines / employees. Therefore it would only be a certain percentage of that batch. It's also possible that the problem was caught and someone adjusted their offsets to fix the problem, but your light got put in the good pile by mistake. It pays to have a clean and clutter-free work area.


----------



## twistedraven

700-900 90cri lumens regulated for 2+ hours of runtime is very good for a host this size. Just goes to show you the efficiency of ZL's driver, the efficacy of the XHP70.2, and the huge energy density of the 21700 cell.

That's the one thing that makes the SC700D tempting for me, but I'm still unsure whether or not I want something to slot in between my SC600 MK3 HI and ROT66, and then of course there's the usual Cree rainbow beam pattern as well. The good news is at least that Zebralights have a high resell value on CPF. I wouldn't want to buy and return to ZL.


----------



## ChibiM

markr6 said:


> I obviously got a dud. CAN'T WIN!!! Mine looks nothing like the photos from ChibiM or others I see online. My clip straddles the groove, so it always pops off or gets loose with any movement.
> 
> Upon closer inspection I can see there was material that should have been cut out to make the groove wider, allowing the clip to fit.
> 
> Here's a closeup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look close at the bottom, you can see a slight indentation where the tool, die (I don't know the terminology) was supposed to remove the aluminum but didn't.
> 
> 
> Compared to ChibiM's photo:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am assuming I'm not the only one that will experience this. I'm guessing a whole batch was made this way, recently sent and currently in stock. Wow.



Too bad!!! Hope this will get sorted out soon. Mine fits really snug. Once it was attached it was hard to move it.


----------



## markr6

ZL said to ship it back and send a note asking for replacement. And as others mentioned above, I asked that they make sure the replacement doens't have the same defect. Seems like it goes without saying, but don't want to take chances. It's already been since October that I've been trying to get one of these...to keep for good.


----------



## Keitho

I just measured my clip, .152" thick; it has what I would call an "interference fit" in the flashlight's dado, which is about .150" wide near the OD. The clip settles in there with some effort. I honestly didn't notice that this clip's fit was any worse than my SC600's. But, my love for the ZL efficiency and weight has created a blind spot that doesn't allow me to see how terrible these clips really are...

I'd be curious to see measurements on your clip and dado, markr; a clip issue would be easier to fix than a turning issue on the flashlight.


----------



## justanotherguy

.002" difference and it fits? Your measurements are a bit off.. unless the groove is wider than the width of the clip...? Still, the groove should be square and not tapered, it's width not varying from the od to the minor od.... I'll have to check mine when I get home, but Mark's looks odd compared to the other one... Not sure how They machine them, but I'd use a grooving tool that is the exact width for a one time plunge...


----------



## markr6

Yeah it's not a matter of the clip almost fitting. Simply clipping it on, it rattles just shaking the light. It sits at an angle and pops off with the slightest effort when clipping it on something. You can see the aluminum on each side of the clip should be equal; mine has one about twice the thickness of the other.

Again, anything other than a nice fit like ChibiM's photo above is nonsense, especially for $119. I find it hard to believe that just one or even a few lights got the defect and not a whole batch, but I have no idea how these are manufactured so I'll take their word on the replacement. Throw in a good tint emitter for my troubles 

They show In Stock right now. I'm gonna be so upset if I miss this batch for my replacement. Figure 2-3 days for my return to arrive and another 2 days for them to get around to it.


----------



## xevious

markr6 said:


> Yeah it's not a matter of the clip almost fitting. Simply clipping it on, it rattles just shaking the light. It sits at an angle and pops off with the slightest effort when clipping it on something. You can see the aluminum on each side of the clip should be equal; mine has one about twice the thickness of the other.
> 
> Again, anything other than a nice fit like ChibiM's photo above is nonsense, especially for $119. I find it hard to believe that just one or even a few lights got the defect and not a whole batch, but I have no idea how these are manufactured so I'll take their word on the replacement. Throw in a good tint emitter for my troubles
> 
> They show In Stock right now. I'm gonna be so upset if I miss this batch for my replacement. Figure 2-3 days for my return to arrive and another 2 days for them to get around to it.


So did Zebralight acknowledge this issue? I wonder if the volume is high enough that it would be cheaper for them to simply make a different clip for these SC700 light having the narrow clip channel, rather than churn out a whole new batch of bodies.


----------



## Tachead

You can see that the clip channel is not machined properly. The head side is not milled enough. Look at the one without the defect and you will see that the clip channel is centered. Whoever was setting up the CNC lathe on that run did not set it right and cut the channel too narrow and off center. The real question is how many did they make that way before they noticed and why were the bad ones not re-cut or culled before anodizing.

Come on ZL, get yo shat together!


----------



## likethevegetable

Who knows, maybe they are going to release (or are waiting on their suppliers for) a new clip that fits yours and you actually received a minor upgrade in the light? Wishful thinking... Regardless, poor business practice if that was the case.


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 said:


> I just can't believe I got another defect...a major one. I think I'm finally done with Zebralight after this, whether or not I get a replacement for this one. As so many posts have proven over the past 7+ years, it's just like rolling the dice every time.


I'm honestly surprised by your response to this particular problem. I agree that it's an issue that needs to be resolved, but wow, to discount all the wonderful progress ZL has made over the years is beyond my comprehension.

We've constantly asked for particular features, and ZL has responded, giving us one of the most excellent and intuitive UI's available on the market today, in a light that is incredibly efficient, small, and backed by not only an excellent warranty, but by one of the few companies that will fix virtually any out of warranty light for $15. 

Every product line is going to have issues, it's part of modern manufacturing, but ZL has a good reputation for making things right when issues do crop up. 

You'all should chill out and enjoy the many wonderful lights you have from this outstanding company.


----------



## Tachead

Derek Dean said:


> I'm honestly surprised by your response to this particular problem. I agree that it's an issue that needs to be resolved, but wow, to discount all the wonderful progress ZL has made over the years is beyond my comprehension.
> 
> We've constantly asked for particular features, and ZL has responded, giving us one of the most excellent and intuitive UI's available on the market today, in a light that is incredibly efficient, small, and backed by not only an excellent warranty, but by one of the few companies that will fix virtually any out of warranty light for $15.
> 
> Every product line is going to have issues, it's part of modern manufacturing, but ZL has a good reputation for making things right when issues do crop up.
> 
> You'all should chill out and enjoy the many wonderful lights you have from this outstanding company.


The issue is that ZL has had an abnormally high amount of issues over the last year or so. Some should have never happened either(ie: the PID ringing on last year's lights). They are definitely dropping the ball as of late imo and things need to change or they will be loosing many long time customers(not just Mark). All the great features in the world don't mean squat if QC goes out the window.


----------



## markr6

xevious said:


> So did Zebralight acknowledge this issue? I wonder if the volume is high enough that it would be cheaper for them to simply make a different clip for these SC700 light having the narrow clip channel, rather than churn out a whole new batch of bodies.



Yes they apologized for the defect and asked that I send it back for a replacement.


----------



## burntoshine

Zebralight makes incredible lights. They're easily my favorite brand. My herd has been time-tested to varying degrees. I don't need to describe all the reasons we appreciate these lights. When a ZL is made to specifications, it rocks lots. It's like when your dad lets you down. You love your dad. He does great things. You know his potential. When he severely effs up, you stand by him, but you're just like, "c'mon pops, wtf??". Yeah, that's an odd analogy, but whatevs.. 

We're not that incredibly unchill, in my opinion. We are frustrated. They need to make a point to drastically improve their quality control. I would be okay with them raising their prices $5 or $10 per light if it means a lot less defects getting out. I mean, I just spent $7.99 more out of my pocket to ship my light back (first class, delivery confirmation, $120 insurance). And then I ordered another light and a third battery. I'm clearly insane. Or I know how awesome this light will be when it's made correctly. Probably a little from column A, and a little from column B.

Derek, you make many good points. But the fact remains, they need BETTER QUALITY CONTROL. Do everything else that you're doing, ZL. You guys & gals are so on point with everything else you do. Just, [email protected] ** >---==#" ; ... *QUALITY CONTROL*. Please.

EDIT: 2nd light has shipped

I wasn't planning on this, but I might end up keeping both lights if they check out alright.


----------



## xevious

markr6 said:


> Yes they apologized for the defect and asked that I send it back for a replacement.


Well that's at least a good sign, and I would hope that this will be a carefully handled case -- you're a repeat customer. They should be able to do the following:

Zebralight gives a sincere apology for the glaring issue [CHECK].
They prepare an RMA so you can return the flashlight at their expense.
After their evaluation, they give you an explanation of what happened (so it's not some mystery cause to worry about for a future purchase).
Next, they expeditiously procure a replacement and double-check it for any flaws or functional issues.
Mail you the replacement via expedited services.
And if I were Zebralight, I'd also give you a special customer discount coupon code (maybe 25% off) that you can use once up through 12/31/2019.

I hear *Derek Dean* about the track record, and that Zebralight should not be eviscerated for having a few issues... except that this is a radical departure from established precedent. The rate of reported issues is rather surprising, and it unsettles potential future buys from people who learn about them.

I have been contemplating my 2nd Zebralight purchase, and my decision has narrowed down to two brand contenders. After learning about these recent issues, I was so close to pulling the trigger on a Thrunite TH30. But, my need isn't immediate so I decided I can wait a little and see how the customer service is handled in this case.


----------



## burntoshine

By the way, Mark, I think my (1st) light and your (2nd) light were shipped at the same time, so probably from the same "batch". The clip on my light fit perfectly. I just now thought of this.


----------



## holygeez03

I didn't realize the SC700 doesn't have the ring/lanyard attachment point... that is an oversight in my opinion... I put a tritium FOB on my SC600IV Plus and it is AWESOME... I can always find the light when I need it.


----------



## Tachead

I think they got rid of the lanyard attachment point on them because that has been one of the biggest complaints about the SC600 series for many years. Judging by posts and reviews over the years I would say that far more people don't want the attachment point then do. Plus, the hole in the clip is always there if you want to attach a lanyard.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

I like the split-ring attachment. It's perfect for lanyard use if you don't want to use the clip. Sure, you could put a lanyard on the clip, but that would only make sense with a screw-on clip so it could not pull off.

IMO, they went with the worst solution for the SC700d: no split ring, and a snap-on pocket clip.


----------



## radellaf

Tachead said:


> I think they got rid of the lanyard attachment point on them because that has been one of the biggest complaints about the SC600 series



I'd be one of those. Hated that sharp little thing. Don't use lanyards, don't use clips, like a nice smooth light. The groove, OTOH, is fine, so they should provide a solid lanyard attachment thing, better than the clip, that could go in that groove. I'd think there'd be something that could be done with knots?

Checked the groove on mine just in case and it is machined right. No extra lube, no solder blobs, all 4 quadrants even. Honestly, I'm very happy to have no issues with a pre-ordered light. I've read ZL threads since the SC51 days and was thinking "I know better than to get the 1st batch...," but, no, was too excited about the XHP70 and 21700 in the same tiny light. Glad I got "lucky". Just ordered the SC64c. If they clear the back order soon enough maybe they'll beat the Chinese-New-Year-Delayed SST20 Emisar D4 (3000K vs ZL's 4000K) to my mailbox. Toomanyflashlights.


----------



## justanotherguy

checked my clip groove.. minor diameter .950"
groove width .155" ... clip width .152"

.003" clearance, not that I've tried to pop it on...


----------



## likethevegetable

I like the lanyard bump on the SC600s - acts an roll-stopper and I'll throw on a lanyard when I use it for my bike light (extra peace of mind)


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

likethevegetable said:


> I like the lanyard bump on the SC600s - acts an roll-stopper and I'll throw on a lanyard when I use it for my bike light (extra peace of mind)



Yeah, I do the same thing. $10 flashlight holder for a $100 light just doesn't seem secure enough.


----------



## JStraus

https://imgur.com/a/WQZMyJW

A constrictor knot with a thinner (2.5 mm or less) cord will hold well in the groove. To make it very secure put a ranger band over it.

And here's an easy way to tie it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RQyVKfOow


----------



## wardroid

I've never bought another zl after my sc600 starting having issues after 6 months of seldom use (highest setting on for 5 seconds before dimming, and also randomlt shutting off and on). I was curious about this particular model until I read this thread. Thanks to forums.


----------



## burntoshine

wardroid said:


> I've never bought another zl after my sc600 starting having issues after 6 months of seldom use (highest setting on for 5 seconds before dimming, and also randomlt shutting off and on). I was curious about this particular model until I read this thread. Thanks to forums.



Have you tried contacting Zebralight about the problem? Shoot them an email and see what they say. I thought I read that they will repair lights out of warranty for $15. 

I don't blame you for being scared away by their defects. They keep shooting themselves in the foot with their lack of quality control. I'm a huge ZL fan, but you have to tell it like it is; they need a big change to their QC process.

I'm really sick of hearing people say that they have to "work out the bugs". It doesn't matter how innovative you are. Defects are defects. It's either made to specifications, or it's not. Stop making excuses for horrible quality control!

It adds insult to injury when you get a defect and then send your light back only to wait even longer. I'm sitting here waiting while others place and receive orders. My defective light was delivered to them on Wednesday. I have no clue when to expect the replacement. I never got an apology or anything other than seemingly robotic responses from them. I will say that I have been impressed with their response time when communicating with them about my problems. But an apology would have been a nice and and easy first step; but nope.

This is my first "return for a replacement" with Zebralight. I guessed correct in that the return process would not be quick, and so I place an order for a second light earlier this week. That light should be here in a matter of hours, if the post office does their job, although it was supposed to be here yesterday; go figure. I will report back with the condition of my 2nd light. As well as the condition of my replacement, whenever they decide to send me one...


----------



## JStraus

Well FWIW, I have owned 11 Zebralights over the last ten years or so and have never had any issues with any of them. Like many consumer product forums, the bad gets reported much more often by the very nature of forums. I'm keeping up with what definitely sounds like QC issues that should be addressed by ZL because some people have definitely had some bad luck runs with their orders. But I'm a fanboy and their return, warranty, and out of warranty policies are solid. I think their customer service has come a long way and that counts to me in the grander scheme of things. Their resale value remains pretty unbelievable.

So, to remain on topic: I'm really enjoying my SC700d that I just got. And I don't know if it's been mentioned here but the lowest mode on this light is even a bit lower than by SC5c MKII, making it a fantastic nightstand light. But not quite as low as my old SC52w. Man, I never should have sold that light...


----------



## burntoshine

JStraus said:


> Well FWIW, I have owned 11 Zebralights over the last ten years or so and have never had any issues with any of them. Like many consumer product forums, the bad gets reported much more often by the very nature of forums. I'm keeping up with what definitely sounds like QC issues that should be addressed by ZL because some people have definitely had some bad luck runs with their orders. But I'm a fanboy and their return, warranty, and out of warranty policies are solid. I think their customer service has come a long way and that counts to me in the grander scheme of things. Their resale value remains pretty unbelievable.
> 
> So, to remain on topic: I'm really enjoying my SC700d that I just got. And I don't know if it's been mentioned here but the lowest mode on this light is even a bit lower than by SC5c MKII, making it a fantastic nightstand light. But not quite as low as my old SC52w. Man, I never should have sold that light...



Yeah, you shouldn't have sold the SC52w.  What were you thinking? LOL. That has been my daily work light since I got it. And man, it has had its share of hard hits! I'm curious as to how long it will last as my work light.

All of my Zebralights have proven to be rock solid so far. Their designs have always amazed me.


----------



## Mr. LED

I got my SC700d yesterday and couldn’t be more disappointed.
1 - tint is horrible, a mix of blue hotspot and green corona. My SC64w and SC600w MK IV HI render colors much better.
2 - it’s extremely floody, I don’t need that much especially in a big flashlight
3 - battery rattles so bad I can hear it in my pocket
4 - anodizing is flaking off in the tailcap threads
5 - the emitter has dark spots visible when using the lowest modes, see picture


I’ll play more during the weekend, but probably will send it back Monday.


----------



## markr6

Sorry to hear that! From the pic I like the tint, but I know it can be misleading. The rattle is bad; I had to wrap my battery with about 1.5 turns of clear packing tape.


----------



## burntoshine

I think you're LED is probably fine. I know it looks weird. It has a sort of plasma look to it. Like the surface of the sun, or something. Your LED reminds me of a view of microorganisms through a microscope, or something similar. My SC5c II LED looks a lot like that on low. Personally, I really like the look of it. I think it's neat. I suspect that it's just the nature of that kind of LED and not a flaw. 

The anodizing on the threads wouldn't bother me so much. Threads get a lot of wear and probably will lose their looks after a handful of battery changes anyway.

The tint does seem rather cool compared to your '600. I remember liking the warmness of my SC700D in the short time I had it, but I didn't bother to use the light much as it went right back into the box when I noticed the defects.

Thank you for your report!

I'll have to check the battery rattle on mine when I get them. In which case I'll probably just wrap something around the battery; some paper or film or whatever works.


----------



## Connor

Mr. LED said:


> I got my SC700d yesterday and couldn’t be more disappointed.
> 1 - tint is horrible, a mix of blue hotspot and green corona. My SC64w and SC600w MK IV render colors much better.
> 2 - it’s extremely floody, I don’t need that much especially in a big flashlight
> 3 - battery rattles so bad I can hear it in my pocket
> 4 - anodizing is flaking off in the tailcap threads
> 5 - the emitter has dark spots visible when using the lowest modes, see picture




Regarding 1&2: very floody and greenish corona is (unfortunately) to be expected from a XHP70.2 with a small reflector
5: this is normal too, all my Cree LEDs look like this on the super-low modes


----------



## twistedraven

I put one wrap of clear scotch tape on my cells for my SC600 MK3 HI to alleviate battery rattle. Yeah, blue to green shift is to be expected of domed cree emitters-- yuck!

I would very much like an XHP35 HI with smooth reflector in this host.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Mr. LED said:


> I got my SC700d yesterday and couldn’t be more disappointed.
> 1 - tint is horrible, a mix of blue hotspot and green corona. My SC64w and SC600w MK IV render colors much better.



Too bad to hear, but that's pretty much what I have in other XHP70.2 lights. The Cree domed emitters are not good for tint shift.



> 2 - it’s extremely floody, I don’t need that much especially in a big flashlight



With all due respect, just what did you expect in a small light using a big emitter???




> 3 - battery rattles so bad I can hear it in my pocket
> 4 - anodizing is flaking off in the tailcap threads



Definitely issues that should be addressed in future updates to the light.



> 5 - the emitter has dark spots visible when using the lowest modes, see picture



I just looked at a couple of other XHP70.2 emitters (not Zebralight), and they're exactly the same way. That is normal.


----------



## burntoshine

I just received the 2nd light that I purchased. The tail cap contact looks good and the LED is evenly lit across all quadrants. I haven't put the clip on as I'm still deciding whether or not I want it on, but the groove looks right. I'll either dig out my calipers later or just put the clip on.

What I did notice: 

1. The button is slightly off-center; it's a bit annoying, but I can live with it. I bet a lot of people would never notice. It's not an aerospace part, but it should be better.
2. There are some tiny burrs hanging off the end of the reflector by the LED. They look like little silver hairs, sort of. You really have to look down in there to see them.
3. The dome of the LED looks a little dirty when on the lowest mode. It's easier to see if you move the flashlight around a little. The dome looks perfectly clean when off.

These are all pretty minor things. I accept flaws of this magnitude, because nothing in this world is perfect, and I would be banging my head against a wall to get an absolute pristine light. I feel like a have a pretty high attention to detail and notice EVERYTHING. I find this light to be acceptable. I hope nothing else crops up. Time will tell, but at the moment I consider this one to be a keeper. 

The battery rattle is pretty horrid, but that's easily fixed and not uncommon in flashlights. I'm guessing the extra space in the battery tube is to accommodate larger diameter batteries. I know diameters of batteries can vary from one manufacturer to another.

I will post pictures sometime soon...


----------



## markr6

burntoshine said:


> The battery rattle is pretty horrid, but that's easily fixed and not uncommon in flashlights.



Without a spring to really "eat up the slack", I find this common with the pogo pin design. And of course diameter comes into play even more so.


----------



## wimmer21

Mr. LED said:


> I got my SC700d yesterday and couldn’t be more disappointed.
> 1 - tint is horrible, a mix of blue hotspot and green corona. My SC64w and SC600w MK IV render colors much better.
> *2 - it’s extremely floody, I don’t need that much especially in a big flashlight*
> 3 - battery rattles so bad I can hear it in my pocket
> 4 - anodizing is flaking off in the tailcap threads
> 5 - the emitter has dark spots visible when using the lowest modes, see picture



Exactly the reason I passed on this offering. 3,000 lumens sounds good but just doesn't have much reach, especially in this configuration. I'll take the Sc600 Mk IV with XHP35 HI as the superior light for all-around use.


----------



## likethevegetable

I never understood why throw is so important to people... 95% of the time I'm looking at something less than 20 m away. I find a bright hotspot makes me nauseous when walking.

The only time I want throw is for fun to look at something across the river, or very rarely a deer or owl. 

Unless you're on a boat, hunting, or searching for something far away, I think a floody light is superior (if you had to choose only 1 light).

Change my mind


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

likethevegetable said:


> I never understood why throw is so important to people... 95% of the time I'm looking at something less than 20 m away. I find a bright hotspot makes me nauseous when walking.
> 
> The only time I want throw is for *fun* to look at something across the river.
> 
> Unless you're on a boat, hunting, or searching for something far away, I think a floody light is superior.
> 
> Change my mind



There you go. Mind changed!

Actually, I do find it useful for seeing stuff up-ahead when I'm cycling, or even walking in a dark area. Scanning for wildlife in a field, too. Floody lights are great general-purpose lights, but you do end up walking around in a fairly limited light-bubble.


----------



## likethevegetable

Dammit you got me there sir! Can't argue with that logic. More fun = more flashlights.


----------



## likethevegetable

So clearly the answer is carry both types on you at ALL times... No judgement!


----------



## dts71

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I like the split-ring attachment. It's perfect for lanyard use if you don't want to use the clip. Sure, you could put a lanyard on the clip, but that would only make sense with a screw-on clip so it could not pull off.
> 
> IMO, they went with the worst solution for the SC700d: no split ring, and a snap-on pocket clip.



I agree, with you here. I prefer a solid split-ring attachment and couldn't care less about clips that come of easily under pressure. At best the clip can be used as an anti-roll device.

Novatac style clip that attaches over the threads are more secure and a similar lanyard attachment point would be a nice option.


----------



## radellaf

The 50E battery seems to rattle less than the 40T that came with it, but a wrap or two of some kind of tape, or another layer of battery heatshrink, fixes that. I'd rather have some rattle and an extra .5mm or two than find that some new 21700 is actually 21.5700 and won't fit.

The SC600m3hi has the best tint uniformity but I find it too throwy for walking with. Instead of a bubble of light, there's too small a hotspot on the path 10' away and I have to sweep it around to see enough width of the path. In any case, every ZL but the hi is floody, so that's not really a complaint about the SC700.


----------



## burntoshine

markr6 said:


> Without a spring to really "eat up the slack", I find this common with the pogo pin design. And of course diameter comes into play even more so.



One of the many things I really like about my SC62w is the dual spring setup; there's a spring in the tail cap AND a spring by the head for the positive contact.

I used clear packing tape - wrapped it exactly three times around; well, just short of three revolutions. It's just about right. The battery slowly slides out under its own weight, so not too tight. I would say it eliminates 90% of the rattle. If you tap the light pretty hard on the side, you just get a slight click of the battery tapping the inside of the light.


----------



## burntoshine

Some pictures:

The off-center button assembly - EDIT: (I wanted to reword this.) I originally said "just barely acceptable", but it's fine really. While technically true, if it were much more off-center, I would probably send it back, it's also true that it doesn't really bother me. You have to hold it up close to your eyes to notice it. If it were any more to the right, it would be getting into that counter-sunk surface and would be much more noticeable. So, yeah, it's on the edge of okay, or decent.





The burrs on the reflector (they sort of blend in with the screw at 6 o'clock) - should have been cleaned up, but a pretty minor issue. This isn't the greatest picture and it's difficult to tell where the burrs end and the screw begins. Part of what you're seeing is the edges of the phillips "cross" shape. The poor quality and lighting of this picture make it seem like a jumbled mess, but it's just a couple tiny hair-like burrs, sitting right on top of the right side of the bottom screw.





family photo (the herd)




submitted for the approval of the Midnight Society




I clipped this in my pocket where I carry my '62w and was considering EDC, lol. It's actually not far off from being EDC-capable. The head is just a tad big for EVERY day comfort. I think SDC (some day carry) is more appropriate. Or ODC (occasional day carry). For those nights when I'll be outside in the dark a lot.

This seems like it will be a great hiking & camping light. I kept thinking about lighting up trails when imagining uses for this light. I reckon I was right about that. I think it's the perfect trail light.

EDIT: Overall I am still a happy camper. I was just notified that the replacement for my 1st (defective) light has shipped. That's pretty quick. Others have mentioned that they've been happy with the return process, and I'm happy so far; I'll know for sure when I check out the replacement. They received my light on Wednesday and shipped the replacement two days later, yesterday. Not too shabby. This concludes me whining about defects until there are more. I made my point(s). Their track record with me is still really good and I foresee being a huge ZL fan until I die, or they do.

I wanted to mention again that they've been stellar with their communication speed. Fast responses every time. Although, I never got an apology or explanation. They were very matter-of-fact with their communication, which is fine; I don't need to have my hand held or be wined and dined. I'm just saying that some form of an apology seems in order for the extra wait and added expense & hassle of returning a defective light.

I don't blame them at all for the unevenly lit quadrants of the LED in my first light as I suspect that it was probably the LED manufacturer's fault and an easy thing to miss. However, the blob of solder on the tail cap contact should have been caught in QC. I totally forgive them because mistakes happen (even glaring ones) and they've given me so many good products in the past that have stood the test of time.

I wasn't planning on owning two of these bad boys, but my impatience got the better of me, and I realized I have let my arsenal of lights get a little too low. As a flashaholic, I am quite ashamed. A couple of years ago I traded my biggest light, a 2X 18650 Eagletac thrower, along with my camo/black Spyderco Paramilitary II, for the Benchmade Adamas that is pictured above. I fell in love with that knife the instant I held it and it has been my EDC ever since. This light fills the void left by the absence of the Eagletac. While not a huge thrower, I've never really needed a thrower. The larger head on the '700d makes this light a bit throwy. It's like a great floody beam, but with a nice amount of throw; so it throws the flood, if that makes sense. Effing perfect for walking around outside. I love it!!!

Has anyone found a nice water-tight battery carrier for 21700s?

cheers


----------



## xevious

likethevegetable said:


> I never understood why throw is so important to people... 95% of the time I'm looking at something less than 20 m away. I find a bright hotspot makes me nauseous when walking.
> 
> The only time I want throw is for fun to look at something across the river, or very rarely a deer or owl.
> 
> Unless you're on a boat, hunting, or searching for something far away, I think a floody light is superior (if you had to choose only 1 light).
> 
> Change my mind


Just as some guys into cars are consumed with getting more horsepower, some guys into flashlights just want more lumens and are willing to pay for it. For what? A few bragging rights among friends? The occasional "Watch me light up this whole mountain side"? But then, there are task needs for long range illumination, searching and exploring. Those are more specialized kinds of lights equipped with maximum throw you just won't find in a Zebralight. Dedicated throwers with no moonlight mode, no sophisticated UI. Huge form factor. I do agree that Zebralights are more suited to shorter range illumination. A little extra throw for those few cases when you need it is nice, but if a frequent need then just get another light for that purpose.


----------



## Mr. LED

likethevegetable said:


> I never understood why throw is so important to people... 95% of the time I'm looking at something less than 20 m away. I find a bright hotspot makes me nauseous when walking.
> 
> The only time I want throw is for fun to look at something across the river, or very rarely a deer or owl.
> 
> Unless you're on a boat, hunting, or searching for something far away, I think a floody light is superior (if you had to choose only 1 light).
> 
> Change my mind



I prefer a beam that mixes some flood but also packs some punch when needed. I have dedicated throwers, but when we we say we want some throw, it’s just to reach a little more, like 100 meters. SC600w MK IV HI is a big example, but too throwy for everyday use. Something between the two would be perfect. I’d love to see this SC700d with a dedomed emitter.


----------



## markr6

I feel like no one even realizes the SC600 IV exists. Maybe it's Zebralight's fault for having so many similarly named lights. The "Plus" and the "HI" sort of washed out the one that started the whole thing...the "standard" SC600, II, III, IV. I had one and thought the beam was a perfect balance for everyday and beyond. But personally I get by with the "HI" for everything as well.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

I don't find the 600w HI to be too throwy for outdoor use. Indoors, sure, but outdoors it's nice to have a little reach without blinding you from foreground illumination as well. I certainly wouldn't call it a dedicated thrower. IMO, it's a balance between flood and throw. Perfect if you can only have a single light outdoors.

The floodier Zebras are great indoors, and do fine outdoors as well for short distances. But anything farther, and you blow out your night vision from the bright foreground, so can't really see much past 50m.

Dedicated throwers are fun, though, so I often carry one. In those cases, I'll use a floody Zebra on about 50 lumens as the main light.

And, yeah, the regular 600 is often forgotten. Seems like it's caught in the middle, between two great lights, the Plus and the HI.


----------



## Mr. LED

Is it OK to charge the Samsung INR21700 50E 5000mAh with 2A current, thinking about longevity of the cell? I always charge my NCR18650GA at 1A.


----------



## Mr. LED

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I don't find the 600w HI to be too throwy for outdoor use. Indoors, sure, but outdoors it's nice to have a little reach without blinding you from foreground illumination as well.



Agree 100%, my HI is the “go to” outdoor light.


----------



## ven

burntoshine said:


> Has anyone found a nice water-tight battery carrier for 21700s?
> 
> cheers



Great write up and pics, thanks for sharing. As for a 21700 water tight carrier.............easy, another 700d


----------



## Hugh Johnson

likethevegetable said:


> I never understood why throw is so important to people... 95% of the time I'm looking at something less than 20 m away. I find a bright hotspot makes me nauseous when walking.
> 
> The only time I want throw is for fun to look at something across the river, or very rarely a deer or owl.
> 
> Unless you're on a boat, hunting, or searching for something far away, I think a floody light is superior (if you had to choose only 1 light).
> 
> Change my mind



Throw is fun. Practicality depends on where you go. If you're on a long path or wide open space and you're interested in animals, or concerned about them, throw adds some reassurance.

The nausea likely comes from beam profile, not throw specifically. The eyes perceiving movement separate from what your body is experiencing, like sea sickness.

For example, I have two lights with nearly identical candella rating and similar tint. The Q8 and TN4A Hi. The TN4A has a much more focused hot spot and gives you the tunnel effect. The Q8 throws equally far due to 5x output but has a much broader hotspot. Little to no tunnel or bouncing dot. I like the Q8 much more as a walking light. Throw is identical.


----------



## tech25

While most of my flashlight use is closer up and I always thought of throwers just for fun, someone here from NYC pointed out that throwers can work better with all of the light pollution (from street lights and buildings) in the city. I have had a couple of times that I needed light for a dark spot but the floody beam was washed out by the ambient lighting.

I have DC- fix with the adhesive rubbed off, on my SC600w (original). When I need some more focused light, I unscrew the bezel and slide it off the lens. It does make a difference even though the SC600w is floody.


----------



## markr6

This just went back to BACKORDER. I sent my defective light back around Tuesday, so they may have received it Friday. Maybe not until Monday? So I wonder if they hold one back for me for the replacement?

I'm gonna be irate if I have to wait ANOTHER cycle to get this.


----------



## likethevegetable

markr6, You could order from NKON: https://ru.nkon.nl/flashlights/zebralight-flashlights-185/zebralight-sc700d.html

They will definitely look at the light and find any flaws, even take a picture for you before they ship it. Also, if you use PayPal, they will cover return shipping if you need it.


----------



## markr6

likethevegetable said:


> markr6, You could order from NKON: https://ru.nkon.nl/flashlights/zebralight-flashlights-185/zebralight-sc700d.html
> 
> They will definitely look at the light and find any flaws, even take a picture for you before they ship it. Also, if you use PayPal, they will cover return shipping if you need it.



I'm committed to ZL at the moment since I already sent mine back for replacement. The problem is, did they get it sent out before the backorder? Did they hold one back for me? We'll see next week.


----------



## ozzy1990

Mine came in a week's time or less even when it said back ordered


----------



## Mr. LED

Two good things I liked about the SC700d is the really low moonlight, which goes as low as my SC32w, serving as a bedside beacon of needed. The second lowest is around half of my SC64w lowest.

The other thing is the checkering is very smooth and won’t shred pockets using the clip.


----------



## burntoshine

ven said:


> Great write up and pics, thanks for sharing. As for a 21700 water tight carrier.............easy, another 700d



Thanks!! Ha ha! Man, I think you may have solved it! Clip included! But, I have three batteries.. Oh, no...


My current G6 settings:





I had L1 set to 2.1, but I think 11.6 is the best for my low-from-off mode. It's the goldilocks mode for up-close tasks, in my opinion. And I have to have the lowest mode next door in L2, for stealth-mode, and because it's fun to just see that LED glow. I think I'll be using 192 lumens the most with this light, so that's one click from off, with 945 lumens a double-click away, if I need a boost. When I want super bright light from off, it's a double-click from off. And if I must "go to 11", it's there in the sub-mode. The only con I see with my programming is getting from my medium modes to my high modes. I either have to hold to cycle through L to M, or turn the light off, and then double-click. I really like being able to toggle back & forth from my lows to highs, simply by pressing and holding. What a great user interface! I have my G7 modes programmed with all the low and medium modes, evenly spaced, in the ZL traditional 'low, medium, high' sequence. That way I have every mode available, for when I want just the right level of brightness. Now that I have this light programmed to my obsessive liking, this light is perfecto! This light seriously is the bees' knees. *If I had to choose only one light to have with me, this is it!* ..I know, that's a bold statement.

I'm thinking that I may carry this light out & about more than I first imagined. It doesn't bulge out quite as much as I assumed it would, at least in relaxed-fit jeans. It may fare even better in my shorts. I would think that I'll still carry my '62w during the day, most of the time, but I can't be sure about that. I can totally see my weirdo self EDCing this thing. What a time to be alive!


----------



## Derek Dean

markr6 said:


> This just went back to BACKORDER. I sent my defective light back around Tuesday, so they may have received it Friday. Maybe not until Monday? So I wonder if they hold one back for me for the replacement?
> 
> I'm gonna be irate if I have to wait ANOTHER cycle to get this.



Do remember, you started off with a perfectly good SC700d, and it was your choice to quickly sell it.


----------



## justanotherguy

Derek Dean said:


> Do remember, you started off with a perfectly good SC700d, and it was your choice to quickly sell it.



I feel bad...Do you want it back Markr6 ?


----------



## LGT

Received my 700 today, ordered five days ago. I read about some of the flaws others lights had, but as a flashaholic, bought it anyways and glad I did. Anodizing is a blemish free perfect finish. A little lighter in color then my 600 series lights, but then they're lighter in color then my sc63/sc64 lights. The LED is perfectly centered and square to the centered switch. It was also well lubed with no grit while twisting off the tailcap. I like the tint and mode spacing. Definitely a keeper. With that said, IMO, there are pant pocket friendly lights and there are non pant pocket lights. I would put this one in the tweener class bordering on not pocket friendly, unless, like I, you have some loose side pockets.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Derek Dean said:


> Do remember, you started off with a perfectly good SC700d, and it was your choice to quickly sell it.



I think Zebralight is finally punishing markr6 for all his tint complaints over the years! Nothing but rejects for him, from now on!


----------



## markr6

justanotherguy said:


> I feel bad...Do you want it back Markr6 ?



No it's fine. Like Derek said, I'm rolling the dice on another one. But it wasn't my choice to hit another backorder one day before they received my defect. I really think they should have held one back for me for the exchange, but it's not my company.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> No it's fine. Like Derek said, I'm rolling the dice on another one. But it wasn't my choice to hit another backorder one day before they received my defect. I really think they should have held one back for me for the exchange, but it's not my company.



Depending on the size of the company, the department processing orders may have no idea what the returns department is doing. If it's the same guy doing both, yeah, putting aside a light for you would be good. If it's different people, then they likely don't process a new order for you until the returns guy gets your old light.

I prefer a hybrid approach that some companies do. If I send back a defective item for warranty exchange, they send me out a new unit right away. They charge my credit card for it, but they refund me as soon as they receive my defective unit. That way, they're protected from scammers, but I get a new device as soon as possible.


----------



## markr6

Ohh, I just went into the mail room and it's been sitting there! Sorry for being a b**** again.

Anyway, after a quick check:

- Good anodizing (the lighter color as expected)
- Smooth threads
- Clip fits well
- Good tint. As good as this 70.2 will get I assume. The usual yellowish when held parallel with a surface, but nice in general. Same as my other two 700d's as I recall.
- Switch is quiet but nice and clicky/firm.

So I'm finally done here and can't complain. ZL must be thinking "Please, are we square now?"


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

It's good to know the clip issue seems to be just a couple of isolated incidents. Still wish it came with a split-ring setup, like the SC600's. If they add that in a future update, it might be really hard for me to pass on this light.


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> It's good to know the clip issue seems to be just a couple of isolated incidents. Still wish it came with a split-ring setup, like the SC600's. If they add that in a future update, it might be really hard for me to pass on this light.



Since the printed instructions make no mention of the G5, 6, 7 modes, I had to go to the product page to look that up again. While there, I noticed they state "Lanyard ring". That's obviously a cut/paste error. I don't mind either way, but on a light of this size I think it would have made sense.


----------



## Mr. LED

Zebralight is simply lazy and didn’t print new manuals for more than a year now.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Mr. LED said:


> Zebralight is simply lazy and didn’t print new manuals for more than a year now.



Agreed. They also lazily copy & paste the descriptions on their web site. For example, if you look at the lumen specs for the SC600w MkIV HI and the (regular) SC600w MkIV, they have _the exact same specs for every mode_. That is clearly an error, since the XHP35 HI emitter has lower output than the XHP35 HD. That's why you see so many people complain they're not getting 1400 lumens out the SC600w HI.


----------



## burntoshine

markr6 said:


> Ohh, I just went into the mail room and it's been sitting there! Sorry for being a b**** again.
> 
> Anyway, after a quick check:
> 
> - Good anodizing (the lighter color as expected)
> - Smooth threads
> - Clip fits well
> - Good tint. As good as this 70.2 will get I assume. The usual yellowish when held parallel with a surface, but nice in general. Same as my other two 700d's as I recall.
> - Switch is quiet but nice and clicky/firm.
> 
> So I'm finally done here and can't complain. ZL must be thinking "Please, are we square now?"



Most excellent!

Glad you got your light, sir!

The anodizing on mine is fairly dark. It falls somewhere in the middle of my ZL anodizing rainbow.


----------



## holygeez03

So I wonder how many SC700s went out with the defective clip groove? I'm assuming it was a dull or broken cutter during the CNC process?

It actually wouldn't bother me as much since I would never use the clip on a light that big, but I would want a split-ring to attach a tritium glow marker or perhaps a lanyard.

One more reason to skip this one... I'm pretty happy with my SC600IV Plus... I would be very curious to see the beam profile from a SC700 with a smaller emitter.


----------



## burntoshine

holygeez03 said:


> So I wonder how many SC700s went out with the defective clip groove? I'm assuming it was a dull or broken cutter during the CNC process?




A lot of times when I've had a groove insert break/chip on me, the finish is awful; it leaves lines, marks, little baby grooves within the groove.

I'm wondering if it was when someone put in a new insert and didn't check the first part off. What I've seen happen is that a tool holder (it holds the insert) can move little by little over time as parts are made. The operator/machinist can adjust their offsets to compensate for this drift as they notice it over time. Many programs utilize tool-life alarms, that tell the worker to change the tool insert, because it's nearing the end of it's expected life. The X offset (depth) is zeroed out, tool holder is taken out, a new insert is placed in, and the tool is touched off to get it into the right position. Since the tool holder had drifted, it is in a different place now than when it was taken out. If the Z offset (width of groove) is not also set back to its original place, the groove can be the wrong size.

I'm curious as to what actually happened. Also, I would love to see these beauties being machined!


----------



## WmArnold1

likethevegetable said:


> I never understood why throw is so important to people... 95% of the time I'm looking at something less than 20 m away. I find a bright hotspot makes me nauseous when walking.
> 
> The only time I want throw is for fun to look at something across the river, or very rarely a deer or owl.
> 
> Unless you're on a boat, hunting, or searching for something far away, I think a floody light is superior (if you had to choose only 1 light).
> 
> Change my mind



I'll bite; for discussion purposes, let's consider three focal regions: working, walking, and searching, say..

Working; less than 5m, where a head-mounted light works best. 1000 lumens is plenty, unless you're trying to see under car seats in broad daylight. ZebraLight shines brightest here, [pun intended] with their epic 80 degree spill-cone

Walking at night; 5m to 15m, where you don't want to step into a hole, but you also don't want to be blinded as you would be holding a 4,000 lm light bulb. Given said spills for Working & Searching; I guesstimate a 72 degree spill cone here ~ ymmv

Searching; 15m++ where you want to pump as many lumens as possible into the hot-spot for maximum range. For example, my oLight SR52-UT throws out to 800 meters with a reasonable 64 degree spill-cone that doesn't compromise my night adapted vision

If you're limited to one light, make it EDC'able; the best light is the one you have..

Most people won't EDC a walking or search light, so, yes; EDC's are best floody

To be clear, we're talking about larger, secondary, flashlights here; our big guns.

Thus, every non-EDC'able light I consider *must* have a reduced spill cone ==> and, sadly, very few of them do

Although all of us qualify EDC differently, I firmly assert that there's no justification for a secondary light to be floody. Subsequently, when I'm reaching for my big-guns, the SC700d doesn't work for me

Fwiw, I EDC an ancient ZL SC600 in my pocket, pack an OL SR52 in my car, and I'm currently shopping for a walking light. The SC700d came really close :-(


----------



## Ericbc7

How much heat does the zebra light generate? I would operate it in extreme cold like -20f but can’t have it react to very cold. Meaning if it’s at -20f and I turn it on - is the lens going to crack?


----------



## mactavish

Mine is supposed to arrive next Tuesday. Wrote Zebralight yesterday, heard back today. They said their online PDF manual should be updated by the end of next week.


----------



## burntoshine

My replacement for the defective light arrived today. The button assembly is off-center, just like my other '700d. Not really a concern, but it would look better if it was properly centered. And there's what appears to be a blob of solder on one of the brass screws next to the LED. I might post a picture or two later. Non of my other Zebralights have any extra (unwanted) material in the heads, yet BOTH of my SC700d lights do. While I love the lights, it's a bit aggravating that I can't seem to get one that looks clean. I received three lights and all of them have noticeable flaws. If your employees can't produce professional looking products, then you either need to retrain, or find better employees.

Edit: It may be a burr on the reflector that I'm seeing. It's difficult to tell. Well, at least I have an easy way to tell my two '700s apart from each other; by the two different reflector burrs.

Edit: It was not my intention to be a debbie-downer. I may be a little more picky than the average person. Any flaw, no matter how small, always sticks out to me. One of the burrs is very easy to miss, the burr on the other light is kinda-sorta easy to miss, I suppose. Yet I just can't help but to think that someone could have knocked off the burr in both cases in a few seconds, and then they wouldn't be trapped under glass, staring up at me every day.

I think I may have mentioned this earlier, but it's worth repeating: Exactly three layers of your typical clear packaging tape around the battery (Samsung 40T) is perfect, in my opinion, to alleviate battery rattle. Don't let the last layer of tape end past or all the way up to where you started with the first layer, because that would make it four layers at that point. The three layers of tape create the perfect seal; the battery slides out slowly, but with ease.

Great gosh darn flashlight! I'm very glad I bought two.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Ericbc7 said:


> How much heat does the zebra light generate? I would operate it in extreme cold like -20f but can’t have it react to very cold. Meaning if it’s at -20f and I turn it on - is the lens going to crack?



I've used Zebralights down to about -25C, or -13F. Never had a problem with heat. The issue is sometimes the battery is too cold to get the light on max when it starts up, but a second try fixes that. At those temperatures, it never heats up to the point where thermal regulation kicks in. At most the light might get slightly warm to the touch, when running on max for a few minutes.

At -20F, your biggest issue will be your lithium-ion battery. It will work, but you'll get much lower run-times. Keep a spare cell in your pocket, if you need to run the light for a long period of time.

BTW, I've never had cold crack the lens on any lights, even the lights that are clearly "heaters" such as the Astrolux S43.


----------



## likethevegetable

I've been concerned about, but never encountered a cracked lens due to cold. I've cranked my SC600w IV Plus to H1 at -30°C and it was okay. Noticed some condensation in the middle but it went away after spending some time indoors.


----------



## The_Driver

burntoshine said:


> And there's what appears to be a blob of solder on one of the brass screws next to the LED.



That's intentional. Other current models also have this.


----------



## burntoshine

The_Driver said:


> That's intentional. Other current models also have this.



After googling and finding some images of ZL boards with the lens and reflector taken out, I think I see what you mean. Although, one of my lights has an actual burr or something hair-like sticking to the reflector, that's not supposed to be there. The other one could be solder, but it's difficult to tell. Either way, it's not supposed to be in view once the reflector is installed. I was first thinking that the solder blob, if that's what it is, was just dropped there by accident because someone was being sloppy, and didn't clean it up. But if it's supposed to be there and just a little bit spilled over into view, that's totally fine. It just looks sloppy when looking in from the top.

Thank you for the post! I appreciate it.


----------



## mactavish

The online PDF manual now appears to be updated:

http://www.zebralight.com/SC700d-21700-XHP702-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_233.html

Scroll down on page. Says “2019” in title once downloaded. Thanks Zebralight tech support!


----------



## radellaf

Now if only we could get some current (or even present) runtimes to go with the lumens, and preferably specifying which battery they're testing with, like they used to do.

But, hey, they've got button centering issues to fix first. (I jest, I jest... it is, simultaneously, a bargain AND a pretty expensive-to-mortals light)


----------



## StandardBattery

ZebraLight 1: Hey that Mark guy wants another light already.
ZebraLight 2: He must have pointy hair, send him that defective one you pulled of the line yesterday.
ZebraLight 1: OK, but we shouldn't waste time and shipping one him.
ZebraLight 2: I know, but it's just too much fun until I get the chance to really kick his butt.
ZebraLight 1: it might be fun to send him a keychain light.
ZebraLight 2: maybe next time, you know after his meds he'll be back again.


----------



## markr6

StandardBattery said:


> ZebraLight 2: maybe next time, you know after his meds he'll be back again.



Back on my meds. Money ready for the C3.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> Back on my meds. Money ready for the C3.



Ha. If you think they're ever going to release the C3, you need stronger meds!


----------



## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Ha. If you think they're ever going to release the C3, you need stronger meds!



Good point :laughing:


----------



## tonkem

markr6 said:


> Good point :laughing:



I asked them about the C3 when I asked if they would be producing a Sc700 in CW, they said no to the cool white version of Sc700, and stated "We still don't have any production plans for the C3 yet."


----------



## Mr. LED

I’m sick of the blue tint of mine, I’ll send it back.


----------



## Derek Dean

Mr. LED said:


> I’m sick of the blue tint of mine, I’ll send it back.



Filters are your friends. Like just about every ZL I've ever gotten, a 1/2 minus green cleaned up the SC700d quite nicely, and being Hi CRI, it's now got quite a lovely beam.


----------



## stargaz_21

Derek Dean said:


> Filters are your friends. Like just about every ZL I've ever gotten, a 1/2 minus green cleaned up the SC700d quite nicely, and being Hi CRI, it's now got quite a lovely beam.



Still no runtimes on the SC700d


----------



## mactavish

Light Output (runtimes)
High: H1 *300**0* Lm (PID, approx. hours) or H2 *1458* Lm (PID, approx. hours)/*945* Lm (PID, approx. hours)/*583* Lm (hours)
Medium: M1 *192* Lm (hours) or M2 *52* Lm (hours)/*25.2* Lm (days)/*11.6* Lm (days)
Low: L1 *2.1* Lm (days) or L2 *0.32* Lm (month)/*0.12* Lm (months)/*0.04* Lm (months)
Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1


http://www.zebralight.com/SC700d-21700-XHP702-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_233.html


----------



## justanotherguy

mactavish said:


> Light Output (runtimes)
> High: H1 *300**0* Lm (PID, approx. hours) or H2 *1458* Lm (PID, approx. hours)/*945* Lm (PID, approx. hours)/*583* Lm (hours)
> Medium: M1 *192* Lm (hours) or M2 *52* Lm (hours)/*25.2* Lm (days)/*11.6* Lm (days)
> Low: L1 *2.1* Lm (days) or L2 *0.32* Lm (month)/*0.12* Lm (months)/*0.04* Lm (months)
> Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1
> 
> 
> http://www.zebralight.com/SC700d-21700-XHP702-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_233.html


What is this post supposed to show?
Without a quote,I am unsure it's context...

It shows an incomplete chart of run times . Only outputs and no specific times......?


----------



## markr6

I will take it upon myself to do a runtime test. Starting with the 0.04lm mode right...now!


----------



## justanotherguy

Lol mark... I look forward to that result in a month or two.....!


----------



## low

justanotherguy said:


> Lol mark... I look forward to that result in a month or two.....!




Or four.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

justanotherguy said:


> Lol mark... I look forward to that result in a month or two.....!



I think it will take a lot longer than that! I ran a couple of runtime tests on two SC52's a few years ago. It took 2 weeks, on the brightest moonlight mode, for the batteries to die. And that was just with AA cells. A 21700 cell, on a dimmer output....?!? Yeah, not worth doing.

I'd be very interested if someone would measure the tailcap current on the moonlight modes, though. From past experience, that gives a very good approximation to the true runtime, even though it does vary with the cell's voltage. Measuring it with a cell around 3.8v should give the most accurate estimate.

For example, my SC600w IV HI uses 1.3mA on its lowest moonlight mode, which is actually much brighter than the moonlights on most other models (such as the 700d). So even with a bright-ish moonlight and an 18650 cell, runtime should be over 3 months.

I'd expect the 700d's lowest moonlight and a 5000mAh cell to be approaching a year!


----------



## SubLGT

radellaf said:


> The 50E battery seems to rattle less than the 40T that came with it, but a wrap or two of some kind of tape, or another layer of battery heatshrink, fixes that. I'd rather have some rattle and an extra .5mm or two than find that some new 21700 is actually 21.5700 and won't fit...



The Lishen LR2170SF is perhaps a little fatter than is typical for a 21700, at 21.7mm (+/- 0.2mm) in diameter. In performance, it has less capacity (around 4700 mAh) than the Samsung 50E2 (4900 mAh) but higher current capability (13.5A versus 9.8A). (The 18650batterystore is selling it for $6)

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...-best-ultra-capacity-21700-but-issues.898393/


----------



## burntoshine

I had a lovely little ride tonight...









...the night belongs to us.


----------



## mactavish

Just ordered 2 more Samsung 40T batteries from Zebralight (price not too bad, but fast shipping) after reading:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/27/...on-cargo-ban-faa-department-of-transportation

[h=1]US announces ban on transporting lithium ion batteries as cargo on passenger flights[/h]
“This doesn’t affect most consumers outright — you can still bring your spare batteries and gadgets aboard in a carry-on bag. 

But people who buy batteries online might be affected. 

Phones, external batteries, and electronic devices in general will no longer arrive with a full charge, so as to avoid the risk of fire or explosion that could damage aircraft while in flight.”


----------



## Nichia!

Does anyone buy batteries with flashlight from Zebralight in the same time??


Am asking this question because I want to know if I buy flashlight and battery from Zebralight will they ship the battery inside the light it self? Or in box of the flashlight??


----------



## mactavish

Nichia! said:


> Does anyone buy batteries with flashlight from Zebralight in the same time??
> 
> 
> Am asking this question because I want to know if I buy flashlight and battery from Zebralight will they ship the battery inside the light it self? Or in box of the flashlight??



Don’t know personally as I bought the light first, but if you call or write them, you’ll have a definitive answer.


----------



## low

Nichia! said:


> Does anyone buy batteries with flashlight from Zebralight in the same time??
> 
> 
> Am asking this question because I want to know if I buy flashlight and battery from Zebralight will they ship the battery inside the light it self? Or in box of the flashlight??





They ship it with the battery in the flashlight.


----------



## Nichia!

low said:


> They ship it with the battery in the flashlight.



How do you know that my friend??


----------



## burntoshine

I bought two batteries with my first light; one battery was inside the light, the other was packed in with the o-rings and clip.. The second battery was enclosed in a thin papery / cardboardy box, so it was protected from bouncing around against the clip during shipping. 

My second light was purchased with one battery; that battery was also shipped inside the light.


----------



## Nichia!

burntoshine said:


> I bought two batteries with my first light; one battery was inside the light, the other was packed in with the o-rings and clip.. The second battery was enclosed in a thin papery / cardboardy box, so it was protected from bouncing around against the clip during shipping.
> 
> My second light was purchased with one battery; that battery was also shipped inside the light.



Thank you very much


----------



## burntoshine

Nichia! said:


> Thank you very much



You're quite welcome


----------



## AVService

Nice
I would not mind taking a look at that light in person if you are game?
After the Snow in the Morning of course,cough,cough.



burntoshine said:


> I had a lovely little ride tonight...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...the night belongs to us.


----------



## radellaf

burntoshine said:


> My second light was purchased with one battery; that battery was also shipped inside the light.


How odd, I've bought batteries a few times and they were never shipped in the light or even the box the light comes in. I have a SC64cLE coming with one battery so we'll see what happens on try #4... interesting.


----------



## AVService

radellaf said:


> How odd, I've bought batteries a few times and they were never shipped in the light or even the box the light comes in. I have a SC64cLE coming with one battery so we'll see what happens on try #4... interesting.



Mine have come in the box and light unless I order more than can fit in there.


----------



## low

radellaf said:


> How odd, I've bought batteries a few times and they were never shipped in the light or even the box the light comes in. I have a SC64cLE coming with one battery so we'll see what happens on try #4... interesting.




I ordered mine from zebralight.


----------



## radellaf

low said:


> I ordered mine from zebralight.



I've always ordered mine the same way, not even sure where else you'd get them.

SC64 came with the VTC6 in the light, at about 3.5V. Wouldn't turn on after tightening the cap, but works fine with a fresh cell. Not sure if there was an insulating piece in there I didn't see, the batt was too low despite what the charger said, or (probably) I didn't _really_ tighten the tailcap all the way.

Emisars have always come with the batt in the light, but this is the first ZL I've had come that way.


----------



## burntoshine

AVService said:


> Nice
> I would not mind taking a look at that light in person if you are game?
> After the Snow in the Morning of course,cough,cough.



I'd probably be game another day. I was sleeping all morning.



radellaf said:


> ...Emisars have always come with the batt in the light, but this is the first ZL I've had come that way.



Same here. This was the first time(s) I got a ZL shipped with a battery inside. But then I realized that I've almost never ordered a light and batteries at the same time from them. As usual, it appears I've learned nothing. :laughing:


I have been really happy with the '700d! This light really does fill a void that I had in my arsenal. I've sold a lot of lights on the marketplace over the years as I purchase other lights. I've been refining my collection to suit my uses. And while I am definitely a flashaholic, my collection might seem relatively small to others around here. My collection is mostly made up of pocketable lights; all EDC candidates. My biggest was my SC62w, which has been my EDC for several years now. And my H600w mkII is my right hand man when I'm on my bike. Those are my biggest lights. Some of the big guns seem cool, but I don't really have a use for one; most of them are too big to be practical for my uses. But I needed a more substantial light; something beyond EDC. 14 hours of 192 lumens with this tint and CRI is awesome!

This was exactly what I've been needing. This is what I grab for peeking outside the house at night, night hikes, my night commute to work, camping, anything outside at night, really. If I have any kind of backpack or bag with me, I now carry one or both of my '700s.

I love the tint. It does have a little extra yellowishness in the corona, but I don't usually notice it in real-world use, and it disappears as the distance increases. The main spot of the beam is nice and white and warm. The clip is quite adequate in my opinion and I don't ever plan on taking it off. I can't imagine it ever coming off on accident.

Zebralights have been evolving since the beginning and I feel like my perfect light has finally arrived.


----------



## Mr. LED

Hi, could you post a beamshot on a white wall, comparing the tint of your SC62w and the SC700d? I find my 700d too compared to my other neutral Zebralights. I’ve exchanged it, the store selected between 40 lights in stock, they said it was the warmest one they had, but it’s still too cool for me.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Mr. LED said:


> Hi, could you post a beamshot on a white wall, comparing the tint of your SC62w and the SC700d? I find my 700d too compared to my other neutral Zebralights. I’ve exchanged it, the store selected between 40 lights in stock, they said it was the warmest one they had, but it’s still too cool for me.



By the specs, it's supposed to be quite a bit cooler than the 62w.

But what I'm really surprised at is... wow... a store tested 40 different lights for you? I think you've either found a really good store or a really good liar.


----------



## Mr. LED

LMAO I like to think I found a good store! Usually they select my zebra tints and it’s exactly what I ask for.

The 5000k is supposed to be cooler than the 4500k SC64w, but I see a lot of people here saying how their 700d is yellow, that I get intrigued.


----------



## Nichia!

Anyone saw (Zebralight bug) the fast blink and shut off bug yet?


----------



## burntoshine

Mr. LED said:


> Hi, could you post a beamshot on a white wall, comparing the tint of your SC62w and the SC700d?






SC700d on left, SC62w on right. Taken with a Galaxy S8 with auto.


----------



## twistedraven

I don't see the 700d as being cooler, I see it as being greener.


----------



## holygeez03

It's both.


----------



## burntoshine

It doesn't seem green to me in real life and it doesn't tint anything green at all. It appears to render colors quite nicely. To be honest, when both lights are on, next to each other, I do kind of like the '62w tint a bit better, but not by a huge amount. They're fairly close, but the '62w does seem warmer than the '700d. All of my neutral-tint lights vary from one to the other. I'm not the pickiest person when it comes to tint, as long as it's not cool white. Cool white can go get effed forever. 

I was in love with 3000k-3500k for a while, but then I got some nichia 219 LEDs and really started liking them a lot. "I guess I sort of like them all".


----------



## Mr. LED

Mine is bluish with green corona compared to my other neutral Zebralights.


----------



## mactavish

Nichia! said:


> Anyone saw (Zebralight bug) the fast blink and shut off bug yet?



No, what are the steps to bring on the “bug”?


----------



## markr6

I'm liking this light. No elaborate uses as of yet; just sitting on the end table for some low ceiling-bounced light while watching movies in the dark basement. So, a $119 night light right now


----------



## Nichia!

mactavish said:


> No, what are the steps to bring on the “bug”?





Try to turn it off and on on turbo 100+ times and if it's there it will show itself to you..


----------



## Keitho

I got mine to flash then shut off, just took a triple click, pause, single click.


----------



## Nichia!

Keitho said:


> I got mine to flash then shut off, just took a triple click, pause, single click.



So it's there??!!


----------



## holygeez03

Nichia! said:


> So it's there??!!




He might be making a joke... Three clicks likely put it into "beacon mode".


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

It's even worse. Just did 4 clicks on my Zebra. It flashed a few times then shut off. :sigh:


----------



## Mr. LED

:laughing:


----------



## holygeez03

You all are going to start a panic.


----------



## markr6

I just rubbed the cap and a genie popped out. Slapped me in the face and said "how'dya like that tint?"


----------



## burntoshine

The bug is real, my friends. The little ******* was hiding in the battery tube.


----------



## radellaf

Did some tailcap measurements and calculations for runtime.







Lumens	mA	4Ah Time	5Ah Time
3000	8000	30	37
1485	3070	1:18	1:37
945	1770	2:15	2:50
583	950	4:12	5:16
192	300	13:20	16:40
52	89	1d 20h	2d 8h
25.2	44	3d 18h	4d 17h
11.6	20	8d 8h	10d 10h
2.1	5.6	29d 18h	1m 7d
0.32	1.2	4m 18d 5m 24d
0.12	0.816	6m 24d	8m 15d
0.04	0.678	8m 6d	10m 7d

50E Battery at 3.9 OCV, Victor VC890D meter 20A range (52lm on up) with Fluke leads.
Could be off a bit at 8A or maybe 3A, but remember the Zebralight driver will draw _more_ current with added resistance.
Top 3 levels are PID, so these runtimes are for well-cooled use like a bicycle light where PID is never active.
Nice to know it's within spec for a 9-10A rated battery, though I'd love to know if it really gets over 30min at 3000lm on a 50E. I could try one of my light-in-a-bowl-of-water tests.

Edit: Just for curiosity's sake, here's efficiency in lm/ma:
3000lm 0.38lm/mA, 1485 0.48, 945 0.53, 583 0.61, 192 0.64, 52 0.58, 25.2 0.57, 11.6 0.58, 2.1 0.38, 0.32 0.27, 0.12 0.15, 0.04 0.06




Maybe that's why they kept trying to drop the lowest sub-lumen mode? Less than a year's runtime does make ZL look bad. /s


----------



## likethevegetable

Nice work! 8 A, dayum...
678 μA, dayum.


----------



## burntoshine

radellaf said:


> Did some tailcap measurements and calculations for runtime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Lumens	mA	4Ah Time	5Ah Time
> 3000	8000	30	37
> 1485	3070	1:18	1:37
> 945	1770	2:15	2:50
> 583	950	4:12	5:16
> 192	300	13:20	16:40
> 52	89	1d 20h	2d 8h
> 25.2	44	3d 18h	4d 17h
> 11.6	20	8d 8h	10d 10h
> 2.1	5.6	29d 18h	1m 7d
> 0.32	1.2	4m 18d 	5m 24d
> 0.12	0.816	6m 24d	8m 15d
> 0.04	0.678	8m 6d	10m 7d



Right on! Thank you!!! : high five :

Zebralight: copy and paste these times into your item description for this light. We all know that you know how to copy and paste. 

...And put radellaf on your payroll. 

Thx.


----------



## Derek Dean

radellaf said:


> Did some tailcap measurements and calculations for runtime.
> 
> Edit: Just for curiosity's sake, here's efficiency in lm/ma:
> 3000lm 0.38lm/mA, 1485 0.48, 945 0.53, 583 0.61, 192 0.64, 52 0.58, 25.2 0.57, 11.6 0.58, 2.1 0.38, 0.32 0.27, 0.12 0.15, 0.04 0.06
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why they kept trying to drop the lowest sub-lumen mode? Less than a year's runtime does make ZL look bad.



Thanks for taking the time to do those measurements and post them here. I'm always interested in seeing real world data. 

When the SC600 Mk IV+ came out, I contacted ZL as to why they had dropped their lowest levels (and expressed my desire to have them returned in the next light). Their reply was that as they had continued to increase the max output of the their lights, they were attempting to keep some sort of logarithmic spacing between levels, which meant increasing the lowest level. 

What's nice, of course, is that they obviously listened to their customers and have returned the lower sub-lumen levels in this latest light. 

As with most things, there are always trade offs, and I've always felt that ZL has done a good job of giving us a driver that maximizes performance where we need it the most, which I think for many of us are the middle & lower levels, and yet still does a respectable job of giving us solid performance with the sub-lumen output levels. And by solid performance, I mean extremely low output levels that are stable, with no PWM, and run times measured in months, not days.

Of course, there's always room for improvement, and I've got a feeling ZL is always on the lookout for ways to increase the performance of their driver. I'd be interested to hear if you know of any other manufacturer that has a driver with this amount of flexibility and better *overall *performance.


----------



## Mr. LED

burntoshine said:


> Right on! Thank you!!! : high five :
> 
> Zebralight: copy and paste these times into your item description for this light. We all know that you know how to copy and paste.
> 
> ...And put radellaf on your payroll.
> 
> Thx.



They know how to copy it, but they’re too lazy to do it!


----------



## burntoshine

Mr. LED said:


> They know how to copy it, but they’re too lazy to do it!



True. They could put up something. 


I like the tailcap measurements and also real runtime tests, too. I like knowing what the light could do in each level without step-downs if cooled, and also the runtimes with step-downs. It's annoying to get neither one from the company you bought the light from, and to have to search around for runtimes, or do them yourself.

I'm going to buy another 18650 light at some point and so I was recently looking at different models, when I kept coming across other lights with nothing listed for runtimes. 




radellaf said:


> I'd love to know if it really gets over 30min at 3000lm on a 50E. I could try one of my light-in-a-bowl-of-water tests.



I vote yes.


----------



## markr6

I wonder how sales are doing on this one. Did the excitement wear out? In stock for a while. Not much new talk. I'm still liking mine, just not using it a lot (or any lights) lately.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> I wonder how sales are doing on this one. Did the excitement wear out? In stock for a while. Not much new talk. I'm still liking mine, just not using it a lot (or any lights) lately.



If sales are decent, there will likely be different XHP70.2 emitter choices, and a frosted lens choice. It costs them almost $0 to swap in a warmer tint or floody lens.

If we don't see any other options, then likely sales didn't go well and they'll probably just try to sell off existing stock.

It's a little outside Zebralight's normal niche (very compact lights), so it will be interesting to know if it caught on, or is just a flashaholic novelty.

If 21700 becomes the new standard in lithium-ion cells, then I can see the SC700 size still being a leader in compact high-output lights. But it's tough to compete against the 18650 size.


----------



## Connor

I was initially all over the SC700d but ended up not ordering one because it is IMHO just too large to conveniently EDC it. 
What I would like to see is a "SC70d", i.e. a SC64-alike as-small-as-they-can-make-it 21700 Zebralight (in high CRI, of course).


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Connor said:


> I was initially all over the SC700d but ended up not ordering one because it is IMHO just too large to conveniently EDC it.
> What I would like to see is a "SC70d", i.e. a SC64-alike as-small-as-they-can-make-it 21700 Zebralight (in high CRI, of course).



The SC64 thermal controls start ramping down the light after only about a minute, and that's with only 1400 lumens. A SC70 would have more than twice that output. Full output would be very brief.

Then again, people seem to love the Emissar D4, even though it can only last for a few seconds on turbo.

I think a SC70 would be similar in size to the SC600w Plus, and only 30% more output. And to keep that minimal size (like the SC64), the SC70 would have to use thinner aluminum (like the SC64 uses), so have less thermal mass to absorb heat. The SC600w IV Plus might beat it for sustained output. You'd get longer run-time with the 21700 cell, though.


----------



## Connor

Yes, H1 on a SC70d would be <2000 lumens for sure but the runtimes in low/medium and some of the H2 modes would be *awesome*.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

An SC70C would be a must have lights for me. :candle:


----------



## Derek Dean

I use my SC700d every day. I keep it on my night stand for late night ventures and as a general around-the-house light. It's perfectly suited for that type of duty. I still use my SC600 as my main in-pocket EDC and work light.


----------



## P220C

Colonel Sanders said:


> An SC70C would be a must have lights for me. :candle:



I'd buy one!


----------



## Mr. LED

burntoshine said:


> Also, the four quadrants of the LED do not light up evenly; one quadrant is significantly brighter than the other three.



Mine has 2 quadrants dimmer than the others, but only for the first 3 lowest settings, from there up they’re even lit. I didn’t bother to send it back for replacement. If it were for all levels, it would be a bigger problem.


----------



## 2bits

SC700Fd is up on Product Comparison page. Not for sale yet.


----------



## markr6

This thing is so floody I couldn't imagine a frosted version.


----------



## Mr. LED

markr6 said:


> This thing is so floody I couldn't imagine a frosted version.



Me neither... I can only imagine a HI version.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Mr. LED said:


> Me neither... I can only imagine a HI version.



No such thing as an XHP70.2 HI emitter. But, you might get a similar effect with a XHP50.2 emitter in the same light. Minus the better tint shift the HI emitters have, of course.

If this light was easily modable (which it isn't), the XHP50.2 might be a simple emitter swap, without any needed change to the driver. The 50.2 should be able to take the extra current.

Even better, stick a XHP35 HI emitter in it. Then you'd have a much better thrower than the SC600w HI. Might need a different driver, to prevent over-driving the LED, though. Perhaps that's what you meant?


----------



## Mr. LED

Yes that’s what’s I mean. Or at least a dedomed XHP70.2


----------



## 2bits

Just got my sc700d yesterday. Dark anodizing about one shade lighter than my h600d. Darker than other sc700d's I see in this thread. I don't care about tint much as long as colors render vibrantly, blue through red, and the sc700d (and h600d for that matter) really delivers there. About as good as real sunlight to my eyes, no hyperbole.


I was expecting a bigger light. When I got the box in the mail, I thought they had made a mistake. I was sure nothing bigger than an 18650 light could be in there, but sure enough it was the sc700d. Considering the battery length and depth of the reflector (which is also deeper than I expected), the size is really impressive. Nothing noticeable in normal use, but if you smack the tail against your hand the battery rattles a bit. A few wraps of scotch tape around the battery (50E) fixed that fine.


This is my first flashlight with pogo pins. They are pretty amazing in their small size. There’s about 1mm of travel, so with pins at both ends that’s about 2mm of slop. The 50e fits about in the middle from what I can tell. Batteries more than ~1mm larger than 50E won’t fit. There’s some room for larger girth batteries in the future. Maybe .5mm wider by my estimates, but that’d be tight.


Host construction. Even with the 1.5” head, the entire light except the tailcap is still machined from one barstock. The head is not just screwed onto the body. It’s all one piece and seemless. The tailcap itself is pretty thin in all respects. They really couldn’t have made this light any smaller without a more shallow reflector.


The glass lens appears thin to me. Gorilla Glass lets them get away with that. This reduces weight and also transmission loss.


Love the range of output, from uber low moonlight to H1.


If I could improve one thing, it would be the bezel edge. The light is really nice standing on the 1.5” diameter head when not in use. Being a brand new light, I’m concerned about marring the anodized aluminum bezel. They already have a stainless ring locking in the lens. If they extended it out .5mm so the light rests on stainless instead of aluminum, that would be positive. I don’t need a “tactical” strike bezel, but a small steel bezel would improve durability.


Love the light!


----------



## radellaf

On mine, the steel part is at least flush, if not maybe (0.2mm?) a bit further out? IDK, never had a problem with the anodize on any ZL getting damaged; though, admittedly, I treat all mine pretty carefully because the most difficult thing they go through is a dog walk.

I love the light, too. I don't use it much, but that's mostly because I keep getting other cool lights like the Lumintop FW3A that just showed up yesterday. The SC700 is still in the most prominent display spot on the desk, though.




2bits said:


> If I could improve one thing, it would be the bezel edge. The light is really nice standing on the 1.5” diameter head when not in use. Being a brand new light, I’m concerned about marring the anodized aluminum bezel. They already have a stainless ring locking in the lens. If they extended it out .5mm so the light rests on stainless instead of aluminum, that would be positive. I don’t need a “tactical” strike bezel, but a small steel bezel would improve durability.
> 
> 
> Love the light!


----------



## 2bits

R


radellaf said:


> On mine, the steel part is at least flush, if not maybe (0.2mm?) a bit further out? IDK, never had a problem with the anodize on any ZL getting damaged; though, admittedly, I treat all mine pretty carefully because the most difficult thing they go through is a dog walk.



I see that too, but you’d have to set it down pretty carefully to only touch SS. The light is fine either way, and this only affects cosmetics*. SS bezels are always a nice-to-have for me.

* ETA: in theory. I haven’t had a problem with the anodizing on any of my Zebralights either. Though this is the first one I’d store head standing.


----------



## anthon87

Connor said:


> I was initially all over the SC700d but ended up not ordering one because it is IMHO just too large to conveniently EDC it.
> What I would like to see is a "SC70d", i.e. a SC64-alike as-small-as-they-can-make-it 21700 Zebralight (in high CRI, of course).



I'd love a SC70w HI with xhp35 HI and small form factor. The SC700d head is too big for EDC


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

anthon87 said:


> I'd love a SC70w HI with xhp35 HI and small form factor. The SC700d head is too big for EDC



It's called the SC600w HI.


----------



## anthon87

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> It's called the SC600w HI.



Except that the SC600W can’t use 21700 cells


----------



## Keitho

Oh, man, I wish you had posted that earlier. I got out a hammer and got a 21700 to fit in my SC600, but the acid and sparks made a terrible mess. The fire fighters were very nice.


----------



## Kivatch

Hi everyone !

I don't post often, but after reading the thread, I finally bought one from NKON along with a 5000mAh 10A Keepower 21700 battery. I really liked it from the start because it is well proportioned, beautiful, extremely well designed and assembled. Yes it is powerful, but I bought an Eagletac TX3G Pro last year which was even more powerful. I returned it because it felt cheap and uncomfortable to use !

So yes it is what I wanted it to be : Pure Zebralight simplicity and refinement but this time with a perfect size and 3000 lumens.

The Keepower battery fits perfectly, doesn't rattle that much (I have to shake, then it moves) and seems to handle the load perfectly. It also seems to have a regular top button instead of the recessed one in the Samsung 50E (Yet, the keepower could be a rebranded 50E. Does anyone know which cell is in it ?)

Thank you for all the information that helped me for this new acquisition !


----------



## radellaf

I don't think the Keepower is a rebranded big brand cell; last I read pointed to one of the better Chinese manufacturers.

I have a 50E plus the 40T from ZL, and am waiting for the 50E2 to show up somewhere other than Mooch's review. Not that I need one; I don't use the light that much. I do love it, though. After so many of basically the same two 18650 lights with various options, this is really something new aesthetically as well as a big technology step up with the huge LED and bigger battery. I'm glad they didn't try to shoehorn it into a minimum-size case with a smaller reflector and no heat capacity. 

At the start of this thread people were saying there's no way the XHP70 would be good in a torch, and someone else sarcastically saying "don't argue, it's a cult." Well, ZL made a very nice XHP70 torch  It's a good cult.


----------



## Kivatch

A good cult indeed. The number one reason why I keep buying these flashlights is the design. There is no sharp edges or agressive looking cooling fins, they look sophisticated and I like that !


----------



## justanotherguy

SC700fd shows as in stock now

Anyone bite yet? I think the SC700d is pretty floody.....? My compulsive side wants it just because.. Then again I want a convoy S21A just because

http://www.zebralight.com/SC700Fd-21700-XHP702-Floody-Neutral-White-High-CRI-Flashlight_p_240.html


----------



## spikebike

I have two question about the SC700d.

Would it not work with protected cells? The recommended battery the samsung 40T is 70.3mm long. I found the Acebeam 21700 5100mAh in the same length, any reason it wouldn't work well? I thought normally flashlights that specified unprotected cells were designed for the slightly shorter battery lengths.

A pogo pin flashlights generally considered less durable than flashlights with dual springs (one for each end of the battery)?

I had serious reliability problems with a few flashlights that had a single spring (on one end of the battery). They'd get unreliable.. my theory is that a drop caused the battery to smack the circuit board enough to crack it. I used to buy 100% fenix, but got tired of flashlights that wouldn't tail stand and they seem to be moving away from springs to pogo pins.

What do you think?


----------



## oeL

Zebraligt is using Pogo Pins because of the high current demand in the new models - several Pogo Pins have a lower resistance than a spring. The 700er Flashlights even have Beryllium Copper springs in the pins - better electrical conductivity. The fact that Pogo Pins require an exact length of the battery is one of the requirements for an unprotected cell - protected ones vary too much in length. Two more reasons: Unprotected ones usually allow higher currents, and because unprotected ones are shorter, the flashlight itself may be shorter as well. Due to the high quality of the Zebralight circuit incl. internal protection, I do not see a requirement for an extra protection in the cell. Of course, this is only true because Zebras are single cell flashlights - a setup with several cells in series would always require protected cells.

Regarding reliability, I haven't heard about pin issues in the Zebralights except from the very first Pogo models.

The Acebeam 21700 is 74.8 mm long, I assume your source has just measured the base cell and made a mistake there. Look at the data sheet: http://acebeam.com/download/sample/11102





spikebike said:


> I have two question about the SC700d.
> 
> Would it not work with protected cells? The recommended battery the samsung 40T is 70.3mm long. I found the Acebeam 21700 5100mAh in the same length, any reason it wouldn't work well? I thought normally flashlights that specified unprotected cells were designed for the slightly shorter battery lengths.
> 
> A pogo pin flashlights generally considered less durable than flashlights with dual springs (one for each end of the battery)?
> 
> I had serious reliability problems with a few flashlights that had a single spring (on one end of the battery). They'd get unreliable.. my theory is that a drop caused the battery to smack the circuit board enough to crack it. I used to buy 100% fenix, but got tired of flashlights that wouldn't tail stand and they seem to be moving away from springs to pogo pins.
> 
> What do you think?


----------



## spikebike

oeL said:


> Zebraligt is using Pogo Pins because of the high current demand in the new models - several Pogo Pins have a lower resistance than a spring. The 700er Flashlights even have Beryllium Copper springs in the pins - better electrical conductivity. The fact that Pogo Pins require an exact length of the battery is one of the requirements for an unprotected cell - protected ones vary too much in length. Two more reasons: Unprotected ones usually allow higher currents, and because unprotected ones are shorter, the flashlight itself may be shorter as well. Due to the high quality of the Zebralight circuit incl. internal protection, I do not see a requirement for an extra protection in the cell. Of course, this is only true because Zebras are single cell flashlights - a setup with several cells in series would always require protected cells.
> 
> Regarding reliability, I haven't heard about pin issues in the Zebralights except from the very first Pogo models.
> 
> The Acebeam 21700 is 74.8 mm long, I assume your source has just measured the base cell and made a mistake there. Look at the data sheet: http://acebeam.com/download/sample/11102



Thanks for the correction, great answer, thanks, I really appreciate it. 

I'm just a bit wary of having unprotected cells around the house, in multiple devices, in chargers, etc. Just paranoid I guess. 

I've had no problems with it with my Manker U11 (18650 based) flashlight so far. I was hoping for something 21700 based and not too much larger. I'm often biking or tracking my black dog at night (or both) and often have my flashlight in the 500-1000 lumen range.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

spikebike said:


> I'm just a bit wary of having unprotected cells around the house, in multiple devices, in chargers, etc. Just paranoid I guess.



What is it that a protected cell is doing for you that makes you think it is more safe? In some ways, a protected cell is less safe than an unprotected cell, because you have a metal strip along the side of the cell that can short the cell (with all the bad consequences) if the wrapper is damaged.

Protection circuits don't protect you against internal shorts, or damage. They'll help prevent you from draining the cell too far (which is really only an issue with multi-cell lights), or overcharging the cell (which any decent charger doesn't do). You'll want to use a DMM to check the voltage anyway, regardless of whether you use protected or unprotected. The only other thing a protection circuit might do is stop a cell from an external short if you're carrying it around with a bunch of loose change or nails (don't do that!).

If you feel safer sticking with protected cells, by all means do that. Just be aware it may be a false sense of safety.


----------



## spikebike

Protection batteries help protect against heat buildup, over current, over pressure, and over discharge. I personally have burned through nylon when a Fenix got triggered while in my pack. Not sure what Fenix has against tail standing and protected power buttons. Generally seems reasonable to have an extra level of protection above whatever is in the charger, flashlight, etc. Only the battery can know it's internal pressure, and the heat inside the LED, even if perfectly monitored is not the same as the temperature inside the battery.

My pack:
http://photos.app.goo.gl/LBC9GKKtrN8LVTxv8


----------



## radellaf

Typical protected cells do not protect against over-temperature, just voltage and current. The battery itself (name brands anyway) has a one-time pressure disconnect. There is no overtemp protection unless you have external electronics beyond the usual protection circuit... like the flashlight board itself. Even a real BMS isn't going to know anything more than battery surface temperature (better than LED temp, sure) and even they don't tend to have a sensor per cell. 

ZL current draw won't come anywhere near overheating a battery from amps unless something is seriously strange about the battery. Which, battery wise, is just good design. If you're risking overtemp from current rather than ambient conditions, then you really should choose a higher capacity cell or use more than one.

Emisars or other FETs with 15A turbo and LED temp sensing, well, they certainly could, but that's another topic. ZLs are "sensible" and practical. I like having both on the shelf.


----------



## MKayze

Anyone have a D4S to compare it with? Which one do you like better?


----------



## radellaf

Different beasts. The D4S is more fun, with the aux LEDs and advanced settings you can play with, plus the option of Anduril with candle mode and other fun stuff. It's bigger than the SC700, too, and the batteries will probably never be made by the big brands. Since most of my use is in the house, it gets plenty of use, but if I was going on a hike or something I'd probably take the ZL for the size and runtimes. If I was short on cash, I guess I'd just get the D4S.


----------



## Connor

From what I've been reading on CPF&BLF the SC700 uses *half* the amps to achieve the same 3k lumens .. so there's that. I have to admit the D4S is a lot of "fun" to play with, though.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Yeah, Zebralights are amazingly efficient. Good boost drivers can do that. And regulated with constant output all the way down to an empty battery.

Lights that use FET drivers, like the Emissar and most budget lights, are impressive (and often brighter), but only while the battery is fully-charged. The battery depletes really fast when using FET drivers, and then the light output is just "meh".

But you pay double for a Zebralight, so there's that...


----------



## justanotherguy

No one has picked up the 700fd yet?

Is it a light made to fill a non-existent need? 
My 700d is pretty floody already


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

justanotherguy said:


> No one has picked up the 700fd yet?
> 
> Is it a light made to fill a non-existent need?
> My 700d is pretty floody already



I think you're right.


----------



## Connor

I like my SC600Fd Mk IV .. I'm tempted to get a SC700Fd.

@justanotherguy A frosted lens is really nice for close range illumination, smoothes out the beam a lot more and corrects some of the ugly green tint in the corona of the XHP70.2 beam.


----------



## justanotherguy

Connor said:


> I like my SC600Fd Mk IV .. I'm tempted to get a SC700Fd.
> 
> @justanotherguy A frosted lens is really nice for close range illumination, smoothes out the beam a lot more and corrects some of the ugly green tint in the corona of the XHP70.2 beam.



Kinda figured.. maybe I could tape my lens then, if I want to see what it's like.,.. $120+ isnt cheap to try it


----------



## StandardBattery

justanotherguy said:


> No one has picked up the 700fd yet?
> 
> Is it a light made to fill a non-existent need?
> My 700d is pretty floody already


Someone did because they are no longer in stock.


----------



## StandardBattery

StandardBattery said:


> Someone did because they are no longer in stock.


I ordered one when they were out of stock, but it took just a day to ship.

It's pretty much what you would expect, and no big surprises. I prefer it over the regular 700d for indoor use and even near-field outdoor use. The regular one does have more range, but not significantly when you consider usable range; although the extra candela on near objects can help sometimes. Overall I think I prefer the Fd version to the regular because neither is a light you want to use for throw, so I make the best of it with the great near-field view of the Fd. There is one caveat I have, see below. The H2 output is very close (slightly less) in practical terms to the H1 output of my 600Fd MkIII Plus.

In my testing the only thing I was not super happy about was that my Fd version has a 'slightly' cooler tint; so color wise I preferred the non Fd, and my 600 mkIIIFd outdoors. It was pretty slight, but I know what I like; i spend a lot of time with cameras and binoculars outdoors, and have a sense of what works well for my vision and sensibilities.

Bottom line: 

Just what you'd expect from an Fd variant, and maybe a little surprising that in practical terns the range you give upon is not really that significant compared to the base 700d. If you want range you're not going to be using either of these lights. 

In an indoor ceiling bounce test the Fd was a noticeable improvement.

Neither one replaces my 600Fd MkIII Plus as my EDC, but I will often carry one in my backpack as I do today, but now it is likely to be the F version more often.

Just for the record, I used an Samsung 40T in the Fd version, and a 50E in the 700d. I have not noticed any output differences between the cells.

This was a short test, so we'll see if living with them revels anything additional or adds some color to my thoughts and feelings.


----------



## justanotherguy

Thanks for for fd input...
I've got enough lights now that the ones that pique my interest don't fill any void.....
I think I have..overlap saturation


----------



## Auringonvalo

Anyone tested Sc700d/Fd color rendering and how much worse it is compared to SC600Fd? 1500 lumens is pretty much spot on for floody light because it is getting too bright on close range, if you want more range. SC600 can't maintain 1500 lumens much even if there is no temp issues, full battery runs out after about 30 minutes.

Nichia Optisolis LED probably is the best right now for color rendering, but power efficiency takes a hit. How much lower power LEDs can actually use if they can render same colors as incandescent? Seems that power goes up when color rendering improves.


----------



## twistedraven

SST20 95cri in an optics array is currently the best option on the market if you want a combination of throw/color rendering/output. A single XHP70.2 90 cri still might edge them out however when it comes to efficiency.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Auringonvalo said:


> SC600 can't maintain 1500 lumens much even if there is no temp issues, full battery runs out after about 30 minutes.



You need better batteries. I get over an hour at that level using a Samsung 30Q 18650 cell. (Prevented from overheating, with a strong cool breeze, to make sure PID isn't ramping it down due to heat.)

I have no idea where you got the idea that a SC600 would only last for 30 minutes. That's true of the SC600 Plus, but that's at 2300+ lumens (I measure it as a bit brighter than that).


----------



## radellaf

I'd have no interest in a floody 700 since half the point for me was to see the huge LED in the reflector. I don't have any other XHP70. Biggest before that was an old Pocket Rocket with I think an SST-50 LED (6.5x8.44 vs 6.7x6.76, not sure about die area). I seem to spend as much time admiring the light when it's off as I do actually using it...


----------



## likethevegetable

Just curious if the size of the head bothers anybody? Obviously it is large for pocket carry, but feel in hand and aesthetics?

I'm holding out for w or c variant to replace my SC600w IV Plus in the future (now that I have an SC64w HI), but I don't know if I can get over the look. From the pics I've seen it just looks disproportionately weird to me.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

likethevegetable said:


> I'm holding out for w or c variant to replace my SC600w IV Plus in the future (now that I have an SC64w HI), but I don't know if I can get over the look. From the pics I've seen it just looks disproportionately weird to me.



What's wrong with the 600w IV Plus? Is it the limited run-time on max? I'm okay with the limited turbo time, since I don't use it much at that output. Tint could be better, though it's okay for a domed Cree.


----------



## likethevegetable

There's nothing significantly wrong with it; but I could sell it and use that money towards a 700 - I'd like a light with 2170 in the near future. I also like to maintain a minimal collection without redundant lights...
I feel like owning a 64, 600, and 700 would render the 600 as an inbetweener that won't get much actual use. The only niche I could see it filling is a pocketable bike light for night rides - but if I'm on the trails, I won't need to pocket the light and if I'm in the city, I only need a bike light to make cars aware of me (only 50 lm or so needed). So even then, I could switch between my 64w HI and (future) 700. Yes, the Plus is perfect for both these tasks, but I don't need a $100 bike light when I have several other flashlights.
Also, going for walks in the evening, I think a little more real estate on the light would make it nicer to hold.
The Plus's tint isn't great indoors but on it's own it's not objectionable, but that slight greenish cast in comparison with my HI and H600Fc is unpleasant. I think I got lucky with my 600Fc, it's definitely a bit yellow but no green at all. Apparently. I can live with a yellow tint, not green.

The ideal SC700 for me (which I don't believe could currently exist because I don't think this LED is being produced) would be a SC700w with a XHP70 HI.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

likethevegetable said:


> The ideal SC700 for me (which I don't believe could currently exist because I don't think this LED is being produced) would be a SC700w with a XHP70 HI.



AFAIK, there is no XHP70 HI. So, Zebralight would have to slice their own domes, and I just don't think they'll do that.

Based on other XHP70's I have, I'm not sure you'd be happy with the tint of one of the regular "w" ones. So, the SC700d might be a better option for you, and it already exists of course.

But, yeah, big overlap with the 600 Plus.


----------



## radellaf

likethevegetable said:


> Just curious if the size of the head bothers anybody? Obviously it is large for pocket carry, but feel in hand and aesthetics?
> 
> I'm holding out for w or c variant to replace my SC600w IV Plus in the future (now that I have an SC64w HI), but I don't know if I can get over the look. From the pics I've seen it just looks disproportionately weird to me.



It may look disproportionate, but I think it fits in my (on the larger size) hands nicer than the smaller models. The curve along the body side of the head feels nice to my thumb.

I'd have preferred a 700c, of course, since I buy 3000K whenever it's available. If I had to have only one 18650 ZL with the 700 I guess it'd be a Mk IV HI model, because the beam is so nice. If lumens was less important and I wanted to carry one clipped (I hate the 600 clip) then I'd go for the 64 LE with the LH351D, since it's the other one with the nicest beam (short of an old SC62w).

As it is, I have no interest in having any less Zebra in the house, and am foolish with my money when it comes to certain things. I still have no headlamp, though that may change with a H53Fc... though what I really want is a H53c LH351D 4000K (the H503 LH is a tease). I have a SC53c, so if the frosted lens is enough to clean up the Cree rainbow, then the H53Fc would be pretty good. I don't have any "F" ZLs either.


----------



## SubLGT

StandardBattery said:


> ...Overall I think I prefer the Fd version to the regular because neither is a light you want to use for throw, so I make the best of it with the great near-field view of the Fd........In my testing the only thing I was not super happy about was that my Fd version has a 'slightly' cooler tint; so color wise I preferred the non Fd, and my 600 mkIIIFd outdoors. It was pretty slight, but I know what I like.......Just what you'd expect from an Fd variant, and maybe a little surprising that in practical terns the range you give upon is not really that significant compared to the base 700d. If you want range you're not going to be using either of these lights....



Does the frosted lens do a good job of taming the "Cree rainbow" ?


----------



## justanotherguy

-Zebralight SC700d (box, pocket clip, o-rings) – on the ' budget' site, used

I'd jump but I have one already. cheap too


----------



## radellaf

SubLGT said:


> Does the frosted lens do a good job of taming the "Cree rainbow" ?



Well I do now have a frosted ZL, the H53Fc, and I don't see any Cree Rainbow at all. So, guessing it'd help a lot with the SC700. Anyone who has one, beam pics?


----------



## terjee

Anyone found a perfect holster for it?

For my SC600-series lights, I’ve been using a Manker holster. I like that it takes marginal extra space in addition to just the light.

A holster could be nice to keep it on a belt, and also for protecting *other* things when throwing it in a backpack.

Just recently ordered and eagerly awaiting it, but I suspect it’s larger than what I’d want to pocket-EDC.


----------



## Tac Gunner

Thors Custom Leather makes flashlught belt holsters.


----------



## shira

Never mind. I thought the SC700d (non floody) was back in stock. I was mistaken.


----------



## MrStrumpan

Yesterday my SC700d arrive, 3 days after order.






Not sure if pciture links work.... https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ryvyjgeuzo5p56/DSC04223.JPG?dl=0

Zebralight SC700d Flashlight
Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh - 10A
21700 battery box
Heat shrink tubing - 21700/20700 format
:bow::rock::thanks::goodjob:


It will be added to my collection:
Zebralight SC600w Mark III 18650 XHP35 Neutral White
Zebralight SC32w SC32w CR123 Flashlight Neutral White
Zebralight H600w Mk 3 H600w Mk III XHP35 Neutral White 18650 Headlamp


----------



## MrStrumpan

Short basic click guide, what u think? 

*Off:*
Hold 0.6sec - Low (Hold-Cycle)
1 - Hi/Off
2 - Med
3 - Beacon/Strobe (Double-Cycle)
4 - Battery Level
6 Double - Set L2-H2 (Double-Cycle, 1-Save)

*On:*
Hold - Cycle
Double - Sub-level


----------



## AstroTurf

Howdy All,

New Guy Here...

I am torn between ordering the SC700d model, or the SC700Fd model.

Please help!!!

Jim


----------



## justanotherguy

I have the 700d
I feel its pretty floody already.. I imagine the film on the f smooths out any edges on the hot spot.... maybe a bit more even in it's flood0-nesy with a little less throw?

I am more than happy with the 700d...


----------



## AstroTurf

Thanks

I was going to buy one yesterday, and they show on backorder. I'll just wait now.

Jim


----------



## Mattz68

Jim, Almost always get the regular version -over the long haul you’ll appreciate the versatility. You can always put some scotch tape over the lens for temporary flood and take it off when you don’t need it. Also, there are diffusers sold as flashlight accessories that you look for.


----------



## Mattz68

ZEBRALIGHT -if you’re out there still....PLEASE make a “c” version this light -preferably with no green tint! Thank you..


----------



## Connor

justanotherguy said:


> I have the 700d
> I feel its pretty floody already.. I imagine the film on the f smooths out any edges on the hot spot.... maybe a bit more even in it's flood0-nesy with a little less throw?
> 
> I am more than happy with the 700d...



The Fd beams are super smooth&floody, really nice if you want the light for close distance work mainly. Fd also mixes the beam more which means less tint shift if you are a "white wall hunter".


----------



## AstroTurf

Thank you!!!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

AstroTurf said:


> Thanks
> 
> I was going to buy one yesterday, and they show on backorder. I'll just wait now.
> 
> Jim



Backorder means that Zebralight will ship a week or 2 after you order. I find that popular models never leave the backorder status. So, if you wait, you'll probably be waiting a long time. You can always send them a message to find out the real wait. When I did last month, it was 1-2 weeks for the model I was looking at. They shipped it about 10 days after I ordered.


----------



## AstroTurf

AstroTurf said:


> Thanks
> 
> I was going to buy one yesterday, and they show on backorder. I'll just wait now.
> 
> Jim


I would like to see more reviews of the fd model...

So, I ordered the SC600w Mark IV Plus today. To tide me over.

I’ll also be able to play with the scotch tape filters in the mean time.

Thanks again all!!!

Jim


----------



## radellaf

I'd probably get the SC700 in the floody version if I just wanted to use it as a flashlight. I prefer the clear lens mostly so I can look at the big beautiful LED. It throws so much light into the spill that it's useless as a thrower anyway. About the only place the clear lens would really help is using it off a balcony or something where the spill wouldn't just bounce back in your face. Even so, at the beach, the water in the air reflected a lot of light back. You could see the waves were lit up, but the air got in the way of seeing them well.


----------



## drummer132132

Just curious, do you think zebralight will use the sbt-90.2 in the SC700d sized host? Not sure if possible but the performance might be rather impressive if able to work.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

I doubt it. But, yeah, it could be impressive.


----------



## tsask

terjee said:


> Anyone found a _perfect holster for it?_
> For my SC600-series lights, I’ve been using a Manker holster. I like that it takes marginal extra space in addition to just the light.
> A holster could be nice to keep it on a belt, .



Ive been using a 'rotating' holster on my strong belt side. I was using a 'sea horse' designed Rofis to project light in my path .
It will do the job.


----------



## Greebe

Any idea on the run times? Zebralight still has nothing listed.


----------



## AstroTurf

Greebe said:


> Any idea on the run times? Zebralight still has nothing listed.


This post may help: #788


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Just ordered my new SC700d.Looking forward to getting it.

Anyone know how long the wait time before order shipment is,if the light is listed as backordered?
(this is direct from zebralight.com).

Ended up canceling the zebralight.com order..(they said the backorder time was 4 weeks..I'd rather not wait that long.)

Ordered from gpknives.com.They'll have my order shipped out within the next 2 days.
(had to order the battery separately from a different site,but it's worth it.)

Update:new SC700d is on its way from gpknives.com via FedEx.
Estimated delivery date is Monday the 17th.

The batteries,from orbtronics.com..are expected to arrive sometime tomorrow.

(which is impressive,considering Orbtronics is located in St.Petersburg,FL.)


----------



## AMD64Blondie

It's here!!!! Finally my precious SC700d has arrived.

Update ow...painfully singing "Blinded by The Light" off-key..flipped my new SC700d on in full 3000-lumen glory,and dumbly looked right at it.

Ouch..my eyes.


----------



## radellaf

Yeah, I think the first person I showed it to did that straight off. It took me a few days. It is... pretty flippin' bright.


----------



## Robot Mania FU

Is it too much to ask for a 21700, high cri, 4000k zebralight??


----------



## AstroTurf

Robot Mania FU said:


> Is it too much to ask for a 21700, high cri, 4000k zebralight??


While we're asking...

I'd like a SC700w HI please!!!


----------



## Mr. LED

If we have enough people interested, I could gather a list and bring it to Zebralight, I have a contact there.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

AstroTurf said:


> While we're asking...
> 
> I'd like a SC700w HI please!!!



Is there even a HI version of the XHP70.2 emitter? I know some people have de-domed them, but I'm fairly certain that is not something that Zebralight would be willing to do in a product offering.

But, yeah, something warmer than 5000K would be nice, like a high CRI 4000K SC700c. I love that tint in the H600Fc.


----------



## NPL

I think he meant sc700w Hi, meaning one with xhp35 hi emitter. 

Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app


----------



## oeL

Mr. LED said:


> If we have enough people interested, I could gather a list and bring it to Zebralight, I have a contact there.



I had already contacted Zebralight twice for a SC700 with XPH35 HI, but not received any reply.

The SC700d is way too floody for me, the XPH35 HI with SC700 head would allow an even better throw than the SC600, still having a smooth beam and sufficient spill for an universal light. In addition, the low resistance and good heat dissipation of the SC700 paired with the more powerful battery with a higher capacity would allow Zebralight to run the XPH35 HI with a bit more current than in the SC600 -> it would be brighter in terms of lumens.

Please put me on your list, or what about a vote here, or anything else...


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

Meh. I already find the SC600w HI is throwy enough for almost all outdoor use, while still being useful close-up. Small enough to pocket-carry, too. I think a SC700w HI with the XHP 35 emitter would be too throwy, like a C8. Great for a specific purpose (seeing long-range), but useless for a general purpose outdoor light.


----------



## Romanko

Hi
Any chance that you will release flashlight with LUMINUS SBT-90 GEN2 ? 
Will be there a smaller version of SC700 - SC70 ?
Thank youNo. Very unlikely. 

We may release an SC70 but I don't know any details (dates, ...) We are still way too busy trying to fill the orders of our current models.


----------



## justanotherguy

has anyone done a 700d vs 700fd beamshot comparo


----------



## AstroTurf

Mattz68 said:


> Jim, Almost always get the regular version -over the long haul you’ll appreciate the versatility. You can always put some scotch tape over the lens for temporary flood and take it off when you don’t need it. Also, there are diffusers sold as flashlight accessories that you look for.


Good Advice!!!

Bought a SC700d on Thursday, received on Saturday.

A Beautiful Dark Carbon Colored Coating.

Thanks All, Jim


----------



## brightasday

oeL said:


> . . .
> 
> The SC700d is way too floody for me, the XPH35 HI with SC700 head would allow an even better throw than the SC600, still having a smooth beam and sufficient spill for an universal light. In addition, the low resistance and good heat dissipation of the SC700 paired with the more powerful battery with a higher capacity would allow Zebralight to run the XPH35 HI with a bit more current than in the SC600 -> it would be brighter in terms of lumens.
> 
> Please put me on your list, or what about a vote here, or anything else...



Yes! I agree completely. Add me to any list for a Zebralight HI flashlight with a 21700 battery.


----------



## radellaf

I don't think I'd have any interest in _buying_ an XHP35 HI version, but I'd love to see what the beam would look like. Especially the character of the spill (we know the spot would be tighter).

I like a floody light, but the spill brightness of the SC700 is something else. The light at my feet is blinding me from what's further away unless I hold it over my head.
A regular XHP35, or most likely just an XHP50, would probably do it for me.

Really, though, what might actually part me from my dollars would be a SC700fc. In the meantime, I have a growing collection of Emisar and Lumintop 3000K triples, half with Anduril firmware for amusement.

The main use I've come to for the SC700d? Honestly, indoor photography with ceiling or wall bounce. The sheer amount of light, and the ability to run at high levels for longer than anything else I have, is wonderful.


----------



## skid00skid00

"I like a floody light, but the spill brightness of the SC700 is something else. The light at my feet is blinding me from what's further away unless I hold it over my head."

I ended up buying a GT micro just because of this. The SC700 isn't usable by me above about 600 lumens due to the spill.

I was always a firefly, moonlight, 10 lumens kind of guy, until I used my SC700. Now even running a 14500 in my SC52 is laughably dim...


----------



## AMD64Blondie

Does anyone have a list of the measured runtimes for the SC700d in all its various levels?

(Selfbuilt....this seems like a job you'd like....)

I'm using a Samsung 50E 5000 mAh 21700.


----------



## AstroTurf

AMD64Blondie said:


> Does anyone have a list of the measured runtimes for the SC700d in all its various levels?
> 
> (Selfbuilt....this seems like a job you'd like....)
> 
> I'm using a Samsung 50E 5000 mAh 21700.



#788


----------



## Secateurs

Anyone know if the SC700 series will fit in a TwoFish Lockblock? Wanting to use one on my MTB.

Also, anyone had experience yet using one on an MTB? It could be either handlebar or helmet mounted. I also have a Light & Motion Taz 1200 which I can use one either bar or helmet too. 

In particular, I can't decide if I will go an SC700Fd or a d. I guess I could always get a d an put scotch tape on it...


----------



## skid00skid00

Secateurs said:


> In particular, I can't decide if I will go an SC700Fd or a d. I guess I could always get a d an put scotch tape on it...



The 700d is more than floody enough. Check out https://imgur.com/a/dg0HjJx


----------



## justanotherguy

Secateurs said:


> Anyone know if the SC700 series will fit in a TwoFish Lockblock? Wanting to use one on my MTB.
> 
> Also, anyone had experience yet using one on an MTB? It could be either handlebar or helmet mounted. I also have a Light & Motion Taz 1200 which I can use one either bar or helmet too.
> 
> In particular, I can't decide if I will go an SC700Fd or a d. I guess I could always get a d an put scotch tape on it...



ZebraLight *SC700d* available for preorder ($119USD) She looks chunky: Head *Diameter*: 1.5 inch (38.1 mm) Body *Diameter*: 1.1 inch (28 mm)

SO. the twoFish thing has a 28mm and 18mm cradle? Does the 18 go on the bars? if so, I bet the 28mm will take the light body...
If the 28mm is needed for the bar, I foresee a problem


----------



## Secateurs

justanotherguy said:


> ZebraLight *SC700d* available for preorder ($119USD) She looks chunky: Head *Diameter*: 1.5 inch (38.1 mm) Body *Diameter*: 1.1 inch (28 mm)
> 
> SO. the twoFish thing has a 28mm and 18mm cradle? Does the 18 go on the bars? if so, I bet the 28mm will take the light body...
> If the 28mm is needed for the bar, I foresee a problem



Ok, thanks for that. Are the cradles removable? If i get a pack of 2 of the TwoFish Lockblocks would I be able to take the 28mm cradle out of one and fit it to the other so it has two 28mm cradles?


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## Secateurs

skid00skid00 said:


> The 700d is more than floody enough. Check out https://imgur.com/a/dg0HjJx



wow, that is a BIG green halo around the hotspot!


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## GeoBruin

Probably won't notice that on the trail though huh?


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## Secateurs

GeoBruin said:


> Probably won't notice that on the trail though huh?


Quite right, but i always like to have versatile, multi-purpose lights. One reason for high cri is so i can use it for photography illumination 

Sent from my BV9600Pro using Tapatalk


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## justanotherguy

Secateurs said:


> Ok, thanks for that. Are the cradles removable? If i get a pack of 2 of the TwoFish Lockblocks would I be able to take the 28mm cradle out of one and fit it to the other so it has two 28mm cradles?


 
Looking at it, that actually may be possible... Never had a.lockblock


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## WalkIntoTheLight

I agree you probably don't want the frosted lens. For a bike light, you want a little bit of throw so you can see far enough ahead you don't hit a rock or something on the road or path.

I use a SC600w IV Plus, which has a similar beam profile to the SC700d. Great bike light! Lots of flood, but also some throw in the center.

I just use one of those cheap bike light holders you can find on sites like Banggood. (I'm pretty sure links aren't allowed here, but they're easy to find). They're pretty adjustable, if you get one with rubber padding that goes around the light. Trim to fit. Should fit the SC700d. They easily click on and off the bike, and hold the position firmly. As a backup, I use a landyard on my Zebralight, attached to my bike, just in case the cheap holder ever fell off. It never has, and I've biked thousands of kilometers with it at night.

Don't bother getting a holder that uses velcro. I've tried them, and they're all crap. I constantly needed to adjust the position while riding. PITA.


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## Let it shine

Derek Dean said:


> For me, color temperature and tint are equally important. I found both lights, the SC600w MkIV+ and the SC700d, to have *equally* ugly green/cyanish tints when I received them, so the difference between the color temperature and CRI in those lights really didn't come into play at that point.
> 
> Of course, I've come to expect this with most LED lights and it doesn't bother me one whit because I learned a long time ago how easy it is to adjust the color of the light with filters, and once filtered, I've found both lights quite pleasing.
> 
> However, once filtered, to my eyes, the SC700d, with it's higher CRI, definitely renders colors more accurately, which I find VERY pleasing. I was expecting this, and it's one of the reasons I decided to order this light (along with the increased output, 21700 battery, and extremely low moonlight level).
> 
> Would I have preferred the SC700d with a color temperature of 4500k or 4000k? Not necessarily. At this point I'm more interested in having an LED with a High CRI rating, then I'll simply filter it to get the color temperature and tint the way I want it.
> 
> I'm super pleased with the SC700d. It's everything I had hoped it would be.
> 
> Once thing I'd like to stress, however, is that the increase in size and weight really are noticeable. The head on this thing is BIG. Just something to consider if you found the SC600 series daunting for pocket carry. Personally, I never had any issues with the SC600 for pocket carry, and the SC700d won't bother me either, but the increased size of the SC700d might put some folks off.
> 
> The great thing is that the SC600 series offers some great lights that come very close to matching the level of output from the SC700d, but in a much more modest and pocket friendly size.




Hi Derek, I signed-up just to reply to your great post - as I'm considering purchasing the sc700d. I had to return my first ZL light - a h600d, because I couldn't handle the greenish vibe from the XHP50.2 5000k. Had I known about the filters however, I would've probably kept it. 
So, to my question: how do I go about applying these filters you speak of? 

Thank You


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## SubLGT

Let it shine said:


> ...So, to my question: how do I go about applying these filters you speak of?
> 
> Thank You



DD uses double sided tape in the center of the lens.


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## Derek Dean

Let it shine said:


> Hi Derek, I signed-up just to reply to your great post - as I'm considering purchasing the sc700d. I had to return my first ZL light - a h600d, because I couldn't handle the greenish vibe from the XHP50.2 5000k. Had I known about the filters however, I would've probably kept it.
> So, to my question: how do I go about applying these filters you speak of?
> 
> Thank You




I apply the filters using a *tiny* bit of double sided scotch tape placed in the center and attaching to the outside of the glass. It works great, doesn't mess up the beam, and I've never had an issue with losing a filter or having it damaged, and I really do use my lights a LOT. I LOVE filters, as they let me customize the tint of my light to my own personal preference. They are easily worth the small amount of effort required to cut them to size and then attach them. Have fun!


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## WalkIntoTheLight

Derek Dean said:


> I apply the filters using a *tiny* bit of double sided scotch tape placed in the center and attaching to the outside of the glass. It works great, doesn't mess up the beam, and I've never had an issue with losing a filter or having it damaged, and I really do use my lights a LOT. I LOVE filters, as they let me customize the tint of my light to my own personal preference. They are easily worth the small amount of effort required to cut them to size and then attach them. Have fun!



I'm surprised the scotch tape doesn't melt or burn, and cause problems with the glass lens. Do you not use your light hot, or is that tape heat-resistant?


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## SYZYGY

i was wondering that too.

also, where do you get your filters?


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## WmArnold1

skid00skid00 said:


> "I like a floody light, but the spill brightness of the SC700 is something else. The light at my feet is blinding me from what's further away unless I hold it over my head."
> 
> I ended up buying a GT micro just because of this. The SC700 isn't usable by me above about 600 lumens due to the spill.
> 
> I was always a firefly, moonlight, 10 lumens kind of guy, until I used my SC700. Now even running a 14500 in my SC52 is laughably dim...



Agreed! I've EDC'd SC600's since 2011, but I reach for my Olight Warrier X for night work because ZL SC's blind me, almost as much as a bare lightbulb would! And, a fogged 700d would be even worse! ZebraLight; I don't need a 3000LM light bulb, make a thrower, 60° spill?


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## WalkIntoTheLight

WmArnold1 said:


> ZebraLight; I don't need a 3000LM light bulb, make a thrower, 60° spill?



Closest they make is a SC600w IV HI. It's a modest thrower, but still has a very usable spill. The spill is dimmer than on their other lights, but it's probably not as dim as you want. I don't think you'll see ZL coming out with a dedicated thrower. It's not their niche. I find the SC600w HI is a good compromise, when I don't want to carry both a floody light for up close and a thrower for far away. But, it's definitely a compromise.


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## ftumch33

What I need is a 700 with an SBT90.2 

Anyone mod one of these?


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## adamlau

Smaller than expected. It is not much larger than the SC64c LE. Protected NCR18650GA shown for size comparison only (unprotected NCR18650GA installed in the LE). Spent over an hour programming G6 to what I thought would be most useful for the family, only to come to the conclusion that default G5 works best for us. G7 set to single-mode Muggle.



ftumch33 said:


> What I need is a 700 with an SBT90.2


Agreed


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## NPL

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Closest they make is a SC600w IV HI. It's a modest thrower, but still has a very usable spill. The spill is dimmer than on their other lights, but it's probably not as dim as you want. I don't think you'll see ZL coming out with a dedicated thrower. It's not their niche. I find the SC600w HI is a good compromise, when I don't want to carry both a floody light for up close and a thrower for far away. But, it's definitely a compromise.


You are right. I have the sc600w Hi and it probably has better overall range in tasks compared to a hypothetical sc700 hi. I just find putting a large xhp70 led in the larger reflector is a waste. An xhp50 would be slightly less bright, but would have more throw and appear brighter. In a super floody light, you may as well go with triple or quad TIR to make the light more compact..

Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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## MB320

Well my last directly ordered ZL arrived yesterday (due to international shipping stoppage). SC700d - looks different to my first one, much much darker!


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## PoliceScannerMan

I got one too, loving it! Puts out a wall of light.


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## markr6

Looking good! I took mine camping last week after not using it for a long time. Kind of unimpressed actually. I know it's rather floody, but outdoors I really can't use that so much.


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## MB320

I like it, don’t use the high modes often but it’s nice to have a sustainable stable 1000 Lumens if necessary. Aesthetically I much prefer this newer one. 

Policescannerman was yours dark too?


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## NPL

markr6 said:


> Looking good! I took mine camping last week after not using it for a long time. Kind of unimpressed actually. I know it's rather floody, but outdoors I really can't use that so much.


I find it really depends on what the ambient lighting is. In the city with street lights, it's feels underpowered because it's so floody. In nature, in complete darkness, even low feels bright

Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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## MB320

NPL said:


> I find it really depends on what the ambient lighting is. In the city with street lights, it's feels underpowered because it's so floody. In nature, in complete darkness, even low feels bright
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Candlepowerforums mobile app



Agree with this. Usually I’d use ~50 Lumens for dog walking, however on lit streets I usually need the next level up with this one. Doesn’t bother me much though


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## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> Looking good! I took mine camping last week after not using it for a long time. Kind of unimpressed actually. I know it's rather floody, but outdoors I really can't use that so much.



Do you know what it's like, compared to the H600Fd IV?


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## markr6

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Do you know what it's like, compared to the H600Fd IV?




A ton of light! More and floodier than the H600.


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## WalkIntoTheLight

markr6 said:


> A ton of light! More and floodier than the H600.



Wow, okay. I find my H600Fc IV to be plenty floody enough. Even my SC600w IV Plus is pretty floody, which is essentially the same LED as the H600Fc but with a clear lens and bigger reflector. So, the 700d must be incredibly floody! Or, does yours have a frosted lens?

I'm not a big fan of super-floody hand-held lights. They can be impressive, and I can see them being of use if you're not walking alone. (So everyone can see in front of them.) But generally, I prefer a more "normal" beam pattern.


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## markr6

The SC700d has a clear lens. Great light, but I think I'll keep using my SC600w HI much more often outdoors.


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## RamBull

markr6 said:


> The SC700d has a clear lens. Great light, but I think I'll keep using my SC600w HI much more often outdoors.



Has anyone successfully modified it to house different emitters?

From my understanding the current might be too high for the 219B emitters. I’m just dreaming of another Bob_McBob mod.


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## id30209

RamBull said:


> Has anyone successfully modified it to house different emitters?
> 
> From my understanding the current might be too high for the 219B emitters. I’m just dreaming of another Bob_McBob mod.



I’m still trying to remove reflector. Sucker is stuck like it’s welded. I have one nice binned XHP70.2, less green and more close to BBL.


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## GadgetGeek

Can anyone recommend a nice fitting holster?


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