# USL Production Updates



## bwaites (Oct 11, 2005)

Hi Everyone!!

Since we are now into the production run of lights, I thought a short update was in order. 

There had been no real sigificant problems with the initial lights sent out, until one of the testers reported a switch that acted funny and wouldn't turn the light on. He had it happen 4 times in a row and then could not repeat it, as it seemed to work fine from then on. 

However, yesterday the switch failed for real. The light is on it's way back to me to be checked. I suspect this is no big deal. I tore apart a switch many months ago to see if there was much in it to cause failure and there wasn't. My suspicion is that this was just a bad switch with something broken inside. The switches are essentially sealed, and I can't take them apart easily. 

I have one switch in my test bed with thousands and thousands of activations, so I cannot for the life of me figure out how one could go bad, but I will know when it arrives. 

In the meantime, I have about 10 lights nearing completion, I will send them out once I am sure that the switch issue is not a problem. Fortunately, the switches are not expensive in quantity and are easy to come by, so I'll get more if I need to!

The Triton dealer called today to let me know that they are about 2 weeks away from delivery and confirm that I could order extras up until the day of shipment, which should be about 3 business days before delivery. 

However, if delivery is scheduled to occur while I am gone back east during the first two weeks of November, I will postpone delivery until I return.

I will keep building lights while I have battery packs and ship the packages on my return.

I doubt I will make my goal of having them all out by Thanksgiving, but I'm trying!! 

Now back to the pit!!

Bill


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## Starlight (Oct 24, 2005)

Bill, nearly 2 weeks, how about another update.


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## bwaites (Oct 24, 2005)

The bad switch light should arrive today to be checked. (Fingers crossed)

I think I currently have 15 or 16 lights ready to ship once I have that evaluated.

The Tritons have not arrived at the dealers yet, and as such, will be postponed for delivery until after I return from my trip mid November to make sure they don't arrive while I am gone and there is no one to receive them.

Bill


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## Codeman (Oct 24, 2005)

USPS is showing that it arrived at your local PO this morning, Bill.


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## bwaites (Oct 24, 2005)

It arrived, as did your very cool surprise!!!

Thank you very much!!!!!!

Seriously cool!

Bill


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## Codeman (Oct 24, 2005)

It needed a good home!


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## Trashman (Oct 24, 2005)

Don't tell me you're sending hamsters through the mail.....


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## bwaites (Oct 31, 2005)

Trashman, 

You aren't supposed to send hamsters through the mail?:nana: 

USL updates:

With the leakage of the cell in xpitxbullx's light, and a similar leak in Codemans light I decided to do some additional runs on the lights I had nearly ready before sending them out.

However, Friday night, one of my patients, a good friends son, injured his neck in a football game. I spent all day Saturday arranging further evaluation and CAT scans and then MRI's of his neck before he was finally admitted to a trauma center with an anterior/posterior C1 fracture, (the first cervical vertebrae at the top of the neck, right under the skull.) and then all day yesterday with his family waiting as the surgeons consulted about the best way to treat him.

The good news is that he has no neurological problems, meaning there was no damage to the spinal cord and that he will more than likely have a full recovery to normal activities, though never play football again.

The bad news is that I didn't get the testing done that I wanted, and though I will stay up late tonite trying to get these lights ready, I can't guarantee that I can do so before I leave Thursday on vacation.

I hope everyone understands, and I apologize that this happened, but my patients take priority over the flashlights and I could see no other options.

Thanks,

Bill


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## mst3k (Oct 31, 2005)

edited by me.


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## paulr (Oct 31, 2005)

I think Bill is doing fine. We all knew when we got into this that the USL is not an off-the-shelf product and that it was going to take a while to complete the project. I avoided setting any expectations in my mind about delivery dates and am satisfied as long as steady progress is being made. Things are ramping up now and finishing the run is probably no more than a few months away, but even if it takes longer than that, I'm fine. I don't have any applications critically depending on the USL.


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## mst3k (Oct 31, 2005)

I apologize for being pesky. :candle:


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## bwaites (Oct 31, 2005)

mst3k,

You have some right to be frustrated!!

I certainly am!! I have a problem with cells which fail, parts which aren't shipped when they are promised and the hassles of dealing with suppliers who tell me one thing and do another.

I feel like in some ways* I, myself, *fall into all those categories. 

However, these lights were delayed because of issues associated with the production, not because of what happened over the weekend. They have been mostly together for 2 weeks, while I waited to establish that Codeman's switch wasn't a production issue, then found a vented cell in his pack, and then before I could ship, xpitxbullx's batteries vented. 

Having 2 of the 6 production run have cells vent left me a little spooked about shipping the next 15 or so lights until I had put a couple more runs on the packs to make sure it didn't happen again. 

Unfourtunately, we are running these lights on the very thin edge, and that means that sometimes stuff breaks and has to be rethought. I promised I wouldn't ship lights until they were right, and they aren't right yet! 

I am frustrated by the inability to immediately have these lights ready, too. It consumes a significant amount of my free time. I usually play 60-80 rounds of golf a year. This year I have played just 4. Not all of that is lights, but a significant portion of it is, as Jim Sexton or Codeman, who are aware of how much time I spend on working on these, can attest.

If you look back, look at how long it took to bring the first generation of small MrBulk lights into being. That is with low load LED's, not 8 amp, HOT, lamps. And with a team of builders, not one guy.

That's not an excuse, but in some ways the difference is like the difference between a race car and and a regular car. We are stressing everything to it's maximum, and still trying to make it reliable enough for everyday use. I don't want to send out lights that will fail after being used 2 or 3 or 4 times, and unfortunately, there is only one mechanic!

Again, I apologize!!

Bill


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## mst3k (Oct 31, 2005)

Thanks so much for the reply Bill. And you don't need to apologize, but perhaps I do need to apologize to you. 

I do realize what an undertaking this truly is. I think I will delete my "Frustrated" thread and just move on. Enjoy your much needed Vacation.


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## DaveNagy (Oct 31, 2005)

bwaites said:


> Having 2 of the 6 production run have cells vent left me a little spooked about shipping the next 15 or so lights until I had put a couple more runs on the packs to make sure it didn't happen again.
> 
> Unfourtunately, we are running these lights on the very thin edge, and that means that sometimes stuff breaks and has to be rethought. I promised I wouldn't ship lights until they were right, and they aren't right yet!


 Bill (and js), is there a chance that the venting-cell problem, if it *is* a problem, could be "fixed" by just changing how we use our USLs? _"Fix it in the documentation!"_ It seems awfully late in the game for a major design change. I don't even play a flashlight expert on TV, but might any of the following make life easier on the cells?

Let the pack "rest" and cool after it is discharged, and before re-charging.
Let the pack rest and cool after charging, and before using. (I think that we do this already to avoid instaflashes.)
Avoid running the light more than a few minutes consecutively. Again, to let the cells (and body) cool.
Charge the pack slower.
Charge the pack "less". (To a slightly lower voltage?)
On the assembly side of things, is there any possibility that the cells within a given pack aren't as well matched as we might hope? Might the potential mismatch only reveal itself after a couple charging cycles? (Say, if some of the cells "improved" more than others.) Would that cause venting? If so, would you (js) need to cycle the cells "loose" a few times, and then bin them in some fashion, and only then solder them into a pack?

(That last bit sounds like a lot of work. I would be happy to volunteer for cell binning duty, if you guys want to send me a mess o' cells, a Triton or six, and exact instructions.)


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## bwaites (Oct 31, 2005)

Dave and everyone else,

We think the problem is actually a factory issue, we've had 2 cells that had NO runs on them that leaked.

One after Jim had soldered it together, but before I charged it at all, and one straight out of the box.

This is a quality control issue and we ordered extra batteries because we were worried about it, but we'll still have to sort through it all.

If anyone has PM'd me and I haven't answered, I apologize and will try to get to them all.

Right now, we are just hoping that one cell in every pack doesn't develop a problem.

I really appreciate everyone's patience and support!!

Bill


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## garsea (Nov 1, 2005)

Thanks for the updates Bill.


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## bwaites (Nov 1, 2005)

I spent much of last night getting the next batch of USL's ready to ship, running battery checks and recharging lights with the intent of sending them out on Thursday morning, before I left on my trip. I thought that if I could get one or two more runs on each, I would be comfortable shipping them, even with the venting problems we've had. 

Sometime between 5:00 and 6:45 AM this morning my house was robbed. I, my wife, my 16 y/o son and my 14 y/o daughter were home at the time, and everyone but my wife was up getting ready. We were all upstairs, and the BG's stayed downstairs, but evidently, the burglars were interrupted in the process and fled. We are 100% confident that they were in the house while we were up, because our pitbull did not hear them or react, and that would only happen if she was not alarmed by what she thought was regular movement. 

They took mostly small items. However, that included my wallet with my ID, concealed weapons permit, cell phone, my wifes cell phone, my EDC knife and McLux PD, custom ordered from McGizmo.

They missed my son's wallet with $100 cash sitting within 3 feet of mine, (Like most fathers, my wallet had no cash in it!), the SpaceNeedle II with Assault and batteries less than 18" from the PD, and several other MUCH more valuable items in the same basket as the cell phone. 

None of the USL supplies were stolen, though they did go through the garage opening boxes and found the power supplies there, the supplies must have been too heavy, (the cases weigh 60 pounds each), and they left them behind. Fortunately, the Tritons had not arrived yet and the Hi-Tecs were not stored with the power supplies. I have called the supplier and put a definite "DO NOT SHIP" on those until I am home.

In addition, I will be installing some additional dead bolts and security measures before I leave. 

Finally, I have to replace all my ID, (I can't get on planes without current picture ID), CCW permit, etc. 

That means I will not ship these lights until I return home. I just don't have the time to get them together and make sure I haven't missed something before I have to leave.

I'm once again very sorry!

Bill


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## ths11 (Nov 1, 2005)

Relieved to hear you and your family are okay, Bill.

Take your time with the lights...they can wait.


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## Haesslich (Nov 2, 2005)

Damn, but you've had a bad week. Man....

Take your time, and good luck with handling the ID issues. Damn, but this isn't your week. My condolences on the break-in, and on the patient there; at least he's walking, or will be soon, even if he can't play anymore.


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## CroMAGnet (Nov 2, 2005)

Damn Bill!! Bummer 4u but glad your family is safe. It's a strange violated feeling being robbed. 15years ago, my car stereo and a trunk full of souveniers was stolen in broad daylight right in front of a police station. It was in by the Greyhound station in LA and I was grabbing lunch with a friend before seeing him off on the bus. Major violated feeling but your home with family must be a lot worse. Shore up your defenses and have a safe trip. Anticipating the USL has been a fun proccess in itself so it will be here when it gets here.


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## Carpe Diem (Nov 2, 2005)

Hi Bill...

A heartfelt message to you from the "Department of Redundancy Department": Take all the time you need!

Best wishes to you, and a big "Thank you!" to all involved in this project.


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## brightnorm (Nov 5, 2005)

Bill,

I'm sorry you had that experience but I'm glad you and your family are safe. I'm still angry when I think about a similar incident from years ago.

Re waiting for USL: The longer the wait the greater the anticipation, the greater the anticipation the higher the excitement, the higher the excitement the greater the thrills when you finally get it and turn it on.

Brightnorm


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## Dynacolt (Nov 5, 2005)

I Couldn't agree more Brightnorm! The waiting is a non-issue. I'd rather a reliable tool than a rushed model that has glitches overlooked in the race to supply.

Sorry also to hear about your burglary Bill. I bought a house a year or so ago and had it emptied out by a local bad guy only 3 days after I moved my stuff in. The good guys caught him the next day adn I got everything back (and surprisingly undamaged). I'm still cautious about security, and the hotwires are certainly good for that 

Dave.


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## bwaites (Nov 21, 2005)

While working on the next batch of USL's Saturday, I had the fortune of a very pleasant visit from SilverFox, our own "MR. BATTERY"!

We discussed lights in general, and looked at some of the lights that I have and he doesn't, and vice versa.

Most important, though, we discussed the issue of the leaking USL cells.

After discussing the leak problem, he suggested that I consider doing a 3+ amp charge on the packs, after I had conditioned them, to see if that might heat and pressurize the seal on the cells that were leaking. His thought, and both Jim and I agree after discussing it, was that the cells might not have been completely processed at the factory, and that this might complete the seal process.

Since I have now discovered 2 more packs on the shelf which had leaking cells, I have cleaned them up and will be running a few charge tests on them to see if I can seal them in this manner. If it works, GREAT, if not, then we'll go back to the drawing board.

In either case, all the non leaking packs I have now will go out this week in lights, and we'll see how they fare out in the real world.

Bill


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## Starlight (Nov 21, 2005)

Bill, when do you expect to receive the triton chargers? Some of us are still waiting on M6R orders too.


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## bwaites (Nov 21, 2005)

The Tritons should be coming soon, I contacted the dealer and let him know I was home last week, and he could have them shipped.

I didn't want them arriving while I was gone, so I put a hold on them.

The Tritons ship in the same box as the USL's, though.

Bill


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## Codeman (Nov 21, 2005)

Got my fingers crossed for ya on the battery sealing trick!

Even if it doesn't work, you and Tom get a big ataboy from me. I've been spending a good bit of time over on avsforums.com, as a result of buying one of Sony's new SXRD HDTV's, and the amount of crap is horrible. There is a lot of good info, but you have to wade through too much trash to find it. That made me remember how nice our little USL community is.


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## js (Nov 21, 2005)

Bill,

I had a eureka this morning! I will just buy a couple (or more) of the energizer 15 min chargers and charge all of the cells ahead of time. They will get nailed and get nice and hot, and this will (I hope) reveal the ones which will leak. That way I can cull them out BEFORE I build up the packs. Because as we discussed last night, all it takes is one bad cell out of the 11 for the whole pack to be considered bad.

Will I need some of the small Wilkey-type magnets in order to make the 1650's charge in the energizer? Or will that fit as is?


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## bwaites (Nov 21, 2005)

Jim,

The Energizer's won't make the cells hot, at least I don't think it will. (Mine won't with regular cells, anyway). I'll try some loose 1650's tonite and see. 

It uses some type of pulsed charge to recharge the cells. In talking with Tom about it some time ago, I seem to recall that he thinks it is similar to the way that the really expensive chargers work, like the Schulze, but modified to only do the AAA/AA thing.

Bill


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## js (Nov 21, 2005)

Are you sure? How can it NOT make them hot? I mean it's a 4C charge rate! I know it doesn't make them AS HOT as the Triton or Hitec would--not nearly. But it simply MUST make them hot enough, right?

And besides, the point is not to do the sealing trick idea on cells that have already or maybe wil leak, but to *find out which cells are going to leak BEFORE I make them into packs*. And I figure if I can do 8 or 12 or 16 at a time in 15 minutes, I can charge lots of them in no time, and then wait a week or so and see if any leak. And I'll stand them upside down to make it obvious. Two or three or five cells leaking out of 100 is no big deal, AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T ALREADY SOLDERED INTO PACKS!

What do you think? Am I making sense here?


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## Codeman (Nov 21, 2005)

If you can find any of the older Energizer 30 minute chargers (Model CH30MNCP-4), they will probably get them hot. When I remove any of the various AA Energizer NiMh cells cells that I have, they are hot enough that I generally just drop them into a small box to cool. I'd guess 160-180 F. They're definitely way past anything that I'd describe as warm.

Or, you could just live dangerously and toss 'em in the oven! :duck:


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## paulr (Nov 21, 2005)

The Energizer 15 min charger gets the cells warm but not really hot. It has a cooling fan that I guess works pretty well. I have one and don't use it that much so I can lend it to this cause if needed. I'm worried about this CBP1650 situation since it sounds like the QC on those cells is just not up to snuff. I wonder if the R/C modelling community might have any suggestions.


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## bwaites (Nov 21, 2005)

I'm like paulr, mine makes them warm, but nowhere near hot, I'd guess 100-110 degrees max, certainly not 150+.

I've sent an email to Mike at CBP to see if there have been any other complaints.

Bill


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## Codeman (Nov 21, 2005)

I rarely use my Energizer charger, so let me know if either of you want to borrow it.


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## KevinL (Nov 22, 2005)

MY Energizer 15m gets 'em plenty hot.... and you can block the fan if you want them to roast! 

I've got a USL that has a problem running the 62138 for more than 8 minutes. Ya think some cell isn't being all that it could be?

You may need tiny magnets if the 1650s are flat top (I have not handled the bare cells before, only seen them in my USL). The Energizer 15m has recessed positive contacts.


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## bwaites (Nov 22, 2005)

Kevin,

Runtime is dependant on battery drain. If the USL is still as bright and white as your pictures, then the cells are OK and you are getting maximum drain. 

If there has been dimming, then one of the cells might be having problems. 

Interestingly, the less resistance in the circuit, the faster the cells drain, and we designed the USL to have the least possible resistance.

For instance, my Mag85 direct wire has much less resistance than a typical Mag85, it is not only brighter, but will run the same battery pack out faster than my "stock" (so to speak) Mag85's.

Has the runtime actually dropped from what it was when you got it? If so, there is probably a cell issue. 

If the runtime is the same, and the light is the same brightness, then you are probably just within the variance of the cells. These cells, though they seem to have some quality control issues, are producing a slightly higher voltage than the prototype cells were and the USL's built with these cells are noticeably brighter, which is why I think that there have been more instaflashes with these cells, even though people are trying to be careful.

That said, if you increase the voltage, the runtime drops, so you might just be seeing that effect.

Let me know!!

Bill


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## DaveNagy (Nov 25, 2005)

I had asked about doing some "loose cell" pre-testing almost a month ago, although I didn't know about this whole "sealing" phenomena. It just seemed like the problem -- whatever it is -- often only surfaces after the packs are charged a few times. My offer to help is still good, if I could be of any assistance...


> On the assembly side of things, is there any possibility that the cells within a given pack aren't as well matched as we might hope? Might the potential mismatch only reveal itself after a couple charging cycles? (Say, if some of the cells "improved" more than others.) Would that cause venting? If so, would you (js) need to cycle the cells "loose" a few times, and then bin them in some fashion, and only *then* solder them into a pack?
> 
> (That last bit sounds like a lot of work. I would be happy to volunteer for cell binning duty, if you guys want to send me a mess o' cells, a Triton or six, and exact instructions.)


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## KevinL (Nov 25, 2005)

Thanks, I have not done a full-blast runtime test with the USL since I got it, preferring to reserve it for sparing use. After the egg cooking incident (ie. failure to cook the egg followed by sudden switchoff) I recharged it gently at 0.2A minimum rate of the Hitec CG340, and everything has been OK since. I was hoping that the sudden switchoff I noticed was not due to a failure of some kind, and for now, it does not appear to be. 

Less resistance = higher drain makes sense, we resistor our Luxeons after all, to put the brakes on them. 

Thanks for the reassurance. I will keep an eye on the USL.


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## bwaites (Nov 25, 2005)

Dave,

The offer of help is appreciated!!

We just don't quite know WHAT to expect, so it would be hard to ask someone to do something that we can't even quantify.

Some cells leak before the charge, others haven't leaked until they are charged. It doesn't make much sense, so we're still trying to figure it out.

Kevin,

OK, keep an eye on it. I'm not sure on the egg cooking thing!

Bill


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## bwaites (Nov 27, 2005)

The next set of 15 USL's is set to go. 

They are all together, with non leaking packs.

Now just have to package them up and send them, which is a trial in itself with all the optional reflectors, etc.

But they should all be in the mail by Tuesday!!

All the packs are processed, charged at a sealing charge of 3.2 Amps, and also rechecked for run time. All of them made around 10 minutes at greater than 1.0 Volt/cell running against the 8.0 Amp draw of the lamp. None leaked during processing.

Bill


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## J_Oei (Nov 27, 2005)

> The next set of 15 USL's is set to go.



Is one of them yellow?


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## xpitxbullx (Nov 27, 2005)

Cool. My second one should be in that batch. I still need to mail out the first one for repairs.

Jeff


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## vontech (Nov 27, 2005)

Bill,

Have the Tritons arrived yet?

Thanks!

Tom


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## nethiker (Nov 27, 2005)

Great news Bill. Thanks for the update.


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## bwaites (Nov 27, 2005)

J Oei, 

Sorry, but unfortunately, no. The non switch protected lights require additional machining of the can, and that has not been completed and tested. Those lights will probably be the last completed, since I have so few and the assembly is much more complicated than the switch protected lights.

XPitXBullX, you are correct.

Vontech, no Tritons yet:shrug: I am assured that they have been ordered and should be shipped soon.

Bill


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## brightnorm (Nov 27, 2005)

Bill,

Since the battery problem remains somewhat of a mystery I'm going to assume the possibility that my USL may be one of its victims. As an electronic illiterate I must ask if there is any danger associated with this problem, and if I should observe any special precautions while charging or at any other time.

Brightnorm


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## bwaites (Nov 27, 2005)

Brightnorm,

No real danger, if they vent, you may or may not hear it. 

If they do leak, it may leave some residue in the inside of the light. If they do, send it back, I'll clean it up and replace the pack. 

Jim is now doing some preconditioning BEFORE the packs are built, so hopefully we will wean out the cells that leak before they are built into packs.

None of the packs I have right now have vented during the trial runs and rapid charge process, so we may have it under control.

Bill


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## brightnorm (Nov 28, 2005)

OK, thanks.

BN


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## marcspar (Nov 29, 2005)

What do you guys think about using one of fivemega's 3 1/2" head on the usl? Will it fit without any modifications?

Thanks,

Marc


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## bwaites (Nov 29, 2005)

I have a FM head that I run from time to time, especially if I'm running the alternate lamps like the 64625. The bigger head doesn't have near as much effect on the stock, axial lamp as it does the transverse filament lamps, but it does look cool!

It fits without mods, as long as you have the noncammed version.

Bill


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## marcspar (Nov 29, 2005)

Thank you!

Marc


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## bwaites (Nov 29, 2005)

Marc (and others),

When I wrote the above reply, I was unaware that FiveMega was making a new head.

I am not sure if that head will work, I have no idea what the tolerances are.

The head I have is from his old run.

Bill


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## Codeman (Nov 29, 2005)

I think all of the new FM heads are cammed, so they won't work, well, not unless he goes with some incredibly loose tolerances!


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## marcspar (Nov 29, 2005)

Thanks for the update, Bill. 

Marc


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## Raindrop (Nov 29, 2005)

bwaites said:


> J Oei,
> 
> Sorry, but unfortunately, no. The non switch protected lights require additional machining of the can, and that has not been completed and tested. Those lights will probably be the last completed, since I have so few and the assembly is much more complicated than the switch protected lights.
> 
> ...


Bill,

Since the Tritons have been the culprits causing a shift in the order of shipments, are those of us that selected the Triton likely to see our USLs before the end of the year??? After waiting this long, it isn't the end of the earth if they don't but it would be nice to know if I might have an opportunity to play with my USL over the holidays prior to my next round of business travel.

~Greg


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## scrappy (Dec 2, 2005)

I was wondering the same thing as RainDrop.???

Thanks
Rich


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## bwaites (Dec 2, 2005)

PM's sent to Scrappy, Raindrop.


Bill


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## karlthev (Dec 2, 2005)

Ditto Raindrop and Scrappy.


Karlthev


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## js (Dec 3, 2005)

OK everyone, here's an update from my side of things:

I am currently trying to determine two things:

1. Is the end-to-end soldering harming the seals on these batteries?

2. If not, are the seals failing during the break in charging?

If they ARE being harmed by the end-to-end sodlering, I have got a company making up a proto-type resistance welded pack. I spec'ed extra wide and thick connecting ribbon, and four weld spots instead of the typical one or two. I will test the proto-type pack and measure voltage under load, and ensure that the resistance of the welded joints is negligible. I will not go this route unless I have determined without a doubt that it will not affect performance. I am pretty sure that the welded pack will have minimal resistance, due to the beefier nickel ribbon and quadruple welded joints.

So far, this has been my reasoning and methodology.

And at the moment, I am considering an extension of it. Suppose that it is not the end-to-end soldering, but just the break in conditioning, that causes failures in the seals. Even then, it might make a lot more sense to have the packs made via resistance welding because this will be fast. All 50 or 70 or however many packs can be done in a week. And even if 10 of them fail, this is not nearly as great a loss as if 10 out of the 70 hand soldered packs fail. As long as the performance is the same, we might as well get these done faster, and just eat the packs that leak.

Believe me when I say that I am truly sorry that the USL project has experienced so many delays due to the %^*()&%%&!!! batteries. It is very, very frustating because there is very little that either Bill or myself can do about it. Even if the end-to-end soldering does prove to be a contributor to the leaking packs, it is my opinion that this would only be because the cells have poorly made and QC'd seals in the first place.


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## bwaites (Dec 3, 2005)

I was gone yesterday afternoon and evening, so let me post what I have told the others in PM's.

Most of the problems with the USL have been related to batteries, and here is the reason:

These are unique cells. In order to make the light this size, the cells had to be AA cells. They had to be able to tolerate *8 AMPS*, and they had to be able to tolerate some fairly significant temperatures. Standard alkaline AA's obviously wouldn't work, NiCad cells would work, but only run for about 3-5 minutes. To reach the 8-10 minute run time goal, NiMH cells would be required. But consumer cells wouldn't work. So we went to the source, people who use cells at max, sometimes crazy, outputs. People who sometimes use a pack a single time, for a single race, and then throw it away because they have abused it so much, The Radio Controlled Racers and Fliers. 

There was an AA cell which they used that appeared to work, and so we bought a bunch of cells and built the protos, and they worked. And NO cells leaked, and NO cells died.

And so we ordered a thousand more cells. But this was a new production run, and so, we have some problems.

Jim built the proto packs, and I am 99.99% sure that the soldering is not the problem. But I have someone away from the project who has volunteered to do some destruction testing and see if the cells are poorly built, and in the process see what else can be done. 

In the meantime we have instituted some changes:

1) We are revamping the way we build the packs, charging the cells first, before they are built into packs. Hopefully any leaks will be picked up early that way. 

2) We will send out the 12 or 15 lights that I have completed and see how they fare in the field. 

3) We will get the problem resolved, even if it means a new battery run. 

4) I have chosen to send out the HITec lights first, this is the stock charger, and the algorithm used in it is harder on the cells. If we are going to see failure, it will happen with these chargers. 

Since the number of HiTEC buyers was smaller, this group is more easily controlled and watched over, and so we'll start there and see what happens with these before sending out more. 

It's not the Tritons causing a shift, it's the cells.

I had decided to not ship the foreign lights, since it would be so much more to return them, until we have figured out the battery issue, but I'm now rethinking that, as it would only be the USL traveling, not the whole package. 
Right now, I have no battery packs to make lights from, and suspect that I am at least 2 weeks from getting them, which puts us in the middle of Christmas season. Jim is pretesting batteries to make sure they don't leak, BEFORE he builds the packs, so that will slow production sigificantly. I will build as many as I can during the Holidays, but I have my college kids home then, too. 

If you want/need a USL for the Holidays, I would be more than happy to ship one of the proto units and a HiTec charger until I get yours built.

(I've made the same offer to others.)

I hope that clears things up some!!

Bill


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## karlthev (Dec 3, 2005)

A more than fair reason and reply. Sorry there has been so much difficulty here for you Bill. I'll wait until things get straightened out. Happy Holidays.



karlthev


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## tvodrd (Dec 3, 2005)

I took mine out last weekend and on a whim, just opened both ends to look for any evidence of leakage. I almost had heart failure when I felt "goo" on my fingers. I rapidly determined it was from excess MagnaLube I had applied to the threads/O-rings. 

Hang in there, Bill!!

Larry


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## Dynacolt (Dec 3, 2005)

Mine is to be shipped international, and I'm more than happy to wait a few extra months so all the bugs can be fixed. I'd much rather have a light that stuns the opposition, than be greedy and want one now that will surprise them with a hiss and pure darkness. And in all this time, the light still seems to be cutting edge and not likely to be superceded 

Thanks guys, it will be duly woth the wait.

Dave.


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## andrewwynn (Dec 5, 2005)

I wanted to put in a post on the USL thread to say what an inspiration it is to us high-end modders to have such an awesome thing to look up to.. the Ultimate yardstick by which to measure other lights. When making 'big boy' lights like the Mag100R.. it's pretty obvious that the muse for such a project is the USL.. and also the only 'yardstick' that can be used to compare it.. also the USL. 

If it weren't for the groundbreaking and the frontier paving of the USL project.. there would be a lot less progress in the pushing lighting to its limits... thanks for all the people involved to make it a reality and that includes the people who sight-unseen bought one.. it's like buying a ticket to the future! 

-awr


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## bwaites (Dec 5, 2005)

Andrew,

Thank you for the comment!

The REAL inspiration for the ultra high powered lights is and will remain, Ginsengs Aurora series. He gave us the the idea that a really, really, high powered light could be put in a maglite.

Thanks again!

Bill


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## andrewwynn (Dec 5, 2005)

amen to the aurora as well, thanks for reminding me, and you deserve the remarks.. sometimes since i'm making such similar things people could think I might not recognize and respect completely the leading and cutting edge stuff that came before me. 

-awr


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## js (Dec 11, 2005)

Everyone,

OK. Well, after individually breakining in and cycling the greater part of 100 cells, I still have not found any that have leaked. This indicates one of two things:

1. One or more of the boxes of cells which I grabbed for the first 24 packs contained a disproportionate number of cells with funky or poorly made seals, but that this failure rate is not representative of the rest of the cells I have sitting on my work bench.

2. The end-to-end soldering is indeed weakening or damaging the seals in some way, and is responsible for the failure rate we are seeing.

At this point, I don't know which it is, but frankly, whatever is going on I can tell you that I am none too impressed with the quality control of these cells.

So who knows? At this point it is anyone's guess.

Here is what I am doing about it:

1. I am in the middle of making up about 12 or 13 packs the same way I have been making them, by end-to-end soldering. If none of these has a cell which leaks, then the outlook will improve, and I will probably continue to make up soldered packs.

However,

2. I am also having a company making up a sample welded pack or two which I will test to see if its performance is as good as the soldered packs. They will be using extra wide, extra thick Nickel ribbon, and four spot welds at each joint. My contact there assures me that these connections will have no trouble passing 9 amps of current. We shall see.

Once I find out if any of the next dozen or so packs have leaking cells, and if the welded packs perform as well as the soldered packs, then we can go from there.

Let me sincerely apologize for yet another delay in USL production and delivery, but at the rate packs were developing leaking cells, it was impossible for me not to stop and assess the situation. It just takes too dang much time and effort to make the soldered packs to just shrug off 1 out of 6 or 7 going bad. 1 out of 10 or 20 maybe, but not 1 out of 6.

We also have a bead on a new source of high current AA cells, but that will be an absolute *last resort*. Mostly, I'm thinking worst case scenario would be to just eat the packs that go bad, and to make up extras (or have extras made if they are welded) and test them thoroughly before assembling the USL's.

My USL has been performing flawlessly despite nearly daily use, and has certainly not developed a leaking pack. And the performance of the cells is really quite good--not that that makes up for a cell leaking, of course!

But anyway, this WILL GET SOLVED OR DEALT WITH VERY SOON, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. I promise. I don't care if I have to take a major loss or what it takes. I feel that it has been way too long a time from the signup thread and payment 'til now. I'm very sorry for that. Bill and I are also frustrated by this situation.

OK. Thanks everyone.


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## CroMAGnet (Dec 11, 2005)

Thanks for the thoughtful update JS.


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## tvodrd (Dec 11, 2005)

:thumbsup: Jim,

Mine doesn't get much use (last time was Thanksgiving weekend at the desert shack) and I pulled the pin and turned it on three nights ago. It exhibited some dimming, so I put it on the Triton. I didn't hear the beeps and forgot about it until the next evening. :green: I let it rest two days and just lit it. No instaflash and yes, pure joy! 

(reminded me- I have a new collegue at work who recently worked at Mag (automation design) and I have been meaning to "show him the light." I just put it on my front seat so I won't forget it tomorrow.  )

Larry


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## bwaites (Dec 12, 2005)

Jim,

Thanks for the update!!

I was going to post tonite and say about the same thing, so glad you beat me to it!!

We're working on it, guys, as fast as we can.

In the meantime, the packs I have that have not leaked will be going out in USL's. I've now let them sit for 2 weeks after running 3 charging cycles and no more have leaked, so, OUT THEY GO!

I ran into a small problem while packing them up, when I found the charger to power supply cords made up by Jim have the correct spade bits for the international power supplies, but not the US versions, so I'll pick some up tomorrow and fit them, then mail all of them Tuesday. You will have shipping bills headed your way soon if you are in this batch. Watch your PM's!!

Bill


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## andrewwynn (Dec 12, 2005)

It's nice to see good reports, i know first hand about production hold ups from any direction, including when they are my fault. 

Really nice to see the 'do it right' attitude. 

I'm curious 'cause i didn't follow the USL thread too closely.. how many are being made, how many left to send out.

I know from playing with my 'makeshift' USL (most definitely not as refined at this point.. at the moment the KIU socket is too tall and i can't even put the head on all the way)... that anybody waiting.. the wait will be worth it! 

I was having fun punching holes in a hefty bag today as a demonstration to my mom.. and i managed to heat a spot on my floor to 125F while taking battery measurements yesterday. 

I can't wait to read more people's posts when they get their USL.. the 'ultimate swear light' as Greg called it.. it is almost impossible not to swear the first time you see one light up.. universally that's been the case when demonstrating another light running the same lamp as the USL..


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## Codeman (Dec 12, 2005)

bwaites said:


> Jim,
> 
> I ran into a small problem while packing them up, when I found the charger to power supply cords made up by Jim have the correct spade bits for the international power supplies, but not the US versions, so I'll pick some up tomorrow and fit them, then mail all of them Tuesday. You will have shipping bills headed your way soon if you are in this batch. Watch your PM's!!
> 
> Bill



I guess I better check the one I already have, too!


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## Trashman (Dec 12, 2005)

tvodrd said:


> :thumbsup: Jim,
> 
> Mine doesn't get much use (last time was Thanksgiving weekend at the desert shack) and I pulled the pin and turned it on three nights ago. It exhibited some dimming, so I put it on the Triton. I didn't hear the beeps and forgot about it until the next evening. :green: I let it rest two days and just lit it. No instaflash and yes, pure joy!
> 
> ...



Can't wait to hear about that guy's reaction!


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## naromtap (Dec 14, 2005)

Thanks for the update Jim.


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## BVH (Dec 14, 2005)

Larry, did your ex-maglite employee - new work collegue "see the light"?


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## tvodrd (Dec 14, 2005)

BVH said:


> Larry, did your ex-maglite employee - new work collegue "see the light"?



He didn't join us directly from Mag and it may have been a year since he worked there in automation design. He was minor impressed but not flashaholic material. I burned a spot (smoke!) on a cardboard box in his cube. :evilgrin: The one bit of "super secret" info I pried from him had nothing whatsoever to do with LEDs.  (Beeeg  ) (I do consider it privaliged info and decline to disclose it. It ain't about Mag moving forward!)

Larry


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## BVH (Dec 19, 2005)

Bill, assuming no more battery issues, any idea when us "guardless" folks will see our suns?


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## bwaites (Dec 19, 2005)

BVH,

Assuming no more battery issues, (and that is hopefully a reasonable assumption as Jim has had no more leaks so far and the packs I have assembled in lights about ready to go out have not leaked after multiple charges), it will just be the assembly issues.

Each light takes me more than an hour to build in itself, then about another hour to build and check accessories like the power cord and charger, etc. Then about an hour to package it all up in two packages, double check to make sure all the appropriate extras are there, and address. I have found that shipping 6 at a time is about the maximum I can do. (Besides that, 6 fifteen pound power supplies are a pain in the petoot to haul into the Post Office!!) and get them off. I figure I can do about 15 lights per week if I have charged packs, maybe a few more. 

Some of the slowdown is double checking addresses, since I have already had several members disappear from CPF and I'm trying to track them down, (anyone heard from the guys in the New Orleans area lately?) and I DON'T want to send them off and have them returned.

If I have charged packs, and that's a big IF with the battery situation, I will be able to crank them out pretty fast, but the battery situation is still the limiting factor.

Hope that helps!

BTW, six or seven lucky buyers will have theirs before Christmas! They are being packed up tonite and barring accident, (we're in the midst of an ice storm here) will go out tomorrow.

I've had a hard time finding appropriate post connections for the chargers, as the posts on the power supplies are pretty big. I finally found some ring terminals and soldered them on tonite, the last step in the construction process. Now to double check all the orders and address it all!!

Bill

PS-Sorry, you asked about "Guardless" USL's and I didn't answer that. They will be last, as I have to refine the process of building the special ones now and I don't have any margin for error as I have no extra guardless bodies. No way to practice, so I have to be VERY sure it will work right.


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## bwaites (Dec 26, 2005)

There are lights in the mail, with more to follow.

Please remember these lights have been precharged, but with the cold weather, they may need to be topped off. 

Please make sure the cables are connected correctly, and that the flat side of the Tamiya type connector is connected to the negative side of the power supply.

If you top off, remember to allow an hour or so to avoid instaflashing the lamp.

Have fun.

Bill


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## ddaadd (Dec 26, 2005)

BUMP !!

OK, first thing, had to to page 2 to find the thread, not cool....
Seems enthusiasum is waning a bit, no post from those who got their lights before xmas? I wonder with x-mas out of the way if production will ramp up?
I wonder where I am at on the shipping list? I notice some other hot wire mags creeping up on the USL. Did the last USL in B/S/T ever sell? Wishing the hype an enthusiasm would return to the USL......... 

Happy New Year Fellas !! :buddies:


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## ddaadd (Dec 26, 2005)

bwaites said:


> There are lights in the mail, with more to follow.
> 
> Have fun.
> 
> Bill



Ahhh, Thanks, now that is cool !! My timing is impeccable...


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## bwaites (Dec 26, 2005)

Unfortunately, due to the storm I mentioned, the lights didn't get out so they arrived before Christmas. They should arrive tomorrow.

Christmas isn't the problem, making sure the cells don't leak is!!

Jim will be finishing up some more packs soon, and then I'll build some more lights. Once we are sure we are over the problem, the last of the USL's will be cranked out fairly quickly.

Bill


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## tvodrd (Dec 26, 2005)

:wave: Bill,

Mine's hanging-in fine! I'm still hoping to find a mature, female Black Widow spyder to find out if they "pop" _audibly!_  (Yeah, sick, I know!)

Larry


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## Codeman (Dec 27, 2005)

I'd ship ya one, Larry, if I knew where they hide during the winter. I've got a rock wall along the flowerbed in my front yard that is BW Central. I counted over 50 the first year I was in the house - before I decided to just spray. I do still run into them every once in a while.


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## brightnorm (Dec 27, 2005)

I just received USL package #1 (USL, charger, pins, etc) and my first reaction after taking it out of the box was “It’s too small”!( I forgot it was a 2D rather than a 3D). My second reaction was “it looks beautiful, and the switch guard is elegant”. After removing the pin I tried the light in my large living room with many lights on and my third reaction was “this is absolutely ridiculous!”. Seeing the enormous amount of light issuing from this modest, innocent-looking little light seemed like a violation of the natural order; like a sparrow pushing an 18 wheeler. 

My options for testing the USL in this densely congested urban environment are very limited, and conducting one of my “vertical throw tests” might not be possible, but there may be one place I can try it out later.

Now I have to mention the single fly in the ointment. When I reinserted the pin, I was confident the USL was securely locked out, but I wanted to test it anyway. I was surprised and disappointed to find that it took only a relatively modest push to flip the switch. I tried the brass pin and had the same result and when I tried to turn it off (with pin inserted) it took a stronger push than it had to turn it on. Then I noticed that the pin holes were so far towards the rear of the switch that it was quite easy for the switch to slip past the pin with relatively little pressure regardless of which pin was being used..

I thought of drilling new holes forward of the existing holes but I was afraid I’d miscalculate or mar the finish. I guess the best option is to mail it back to be altered but I sure hate to have it out of my hands now that I’ve seen what this light is capable of.

Also, I was hoping to find detailed instructions in the package along with various tips and caveats a la JS. (Jim Sexton). Unhandy duffers like me find a little handholding really useful, and even a small misstep could have negative results with such a powerful light.

Bill, please let me know whether I should ship it back, and if so, how long you think the turn-around time would be. I feel fortunate to be an owner of this wonderful little monster.

Brightnorm


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## tvodrd (Dec 27, 2005)

<-Me! Hi Norm, Either the switches vary, tolerance stack was too tight, or I let a chip get caught In the mill vise.  JimH had a similar problem and found the stainless pin worked ok. He also came up with a hitch pin which did the job better than the cotter/grenade pin. This one falls on me, not BWaites. I can punch your pin hole from 1/16" to 3/32" and probably fix it. I plead only that the switch guard was to prevent a too easy _accidental_ activation. The positive-lockout pin was for added safety. (No good deed goes unpunished!  )

I'll take care of it, and pay the postage both ways.

Larry


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## bwaites (Dec 27, 2005)

HMMMM......

Try the stainless pins, they have less flex. But...there is a couple thousandths tolerance variation in the switch installations, though I thought the lockout pins engaged well on all of that batch. 

Slightly enlarging the hole might be the best option, and then using the hitch pins found by JimH. 

Larry did the work on these for free, so I feel bad about having him take the responsibility for it!!

I might have to find where JimH got his pins, and drill out the rest of the guards.

Bill


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## bwaites (Dec 27, 2005)

Brightnorm,

Charging and care instructions can all be found in the threads put together by Codeman, but I am in the process of putting them all in one file.

I can answer any specific questions here, though.

Bill


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## andrewwynn (Dec 28, 2005)

my favorite demo with the osram 100 lamp... a black hefty bag.. it will punch a very clean perfect circle in about 2 seconds flat.. don't do it where you might set off a fire alarm or for that matter burn down your house.. but do try it. it's mind blowing. 

-awr


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## brightnorm (Dec 28, 2005)

I'll send the USL back (Sob!) for the enlarged holes and hitch pins.I was searching for hitch pins online and found many locking pins that are easily pushed through the holes and locked in place. Unfortunately they are all too big, smallest diameter was 1/4". There were some cheap regular ones that looked like "bumpy" cotter pins. Is that what you had in mind? My screwed-up thumbs make it difficult to compress the cotter pins enough to insert them so I actually have to use a pliers; I hope the hitch pins are easier.

Larry, let's split the postage; I'll pay one way, that's the least I can do in light of the unreimbursed time you spent working on the switch.

Brightnorm


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## Codeman (Dec 28, 2005)

From my experience with the USL, I think the most important points to keep in mind are:


Enjoy the awesome power!
Wait 10-20 minutes after running the USL before putting it on the charger
Wait 10-20 minutes after charging the USL before putting turning it on
Do not run it past the point where you see dimming start (9-11 minutes continuous, I think)
When handling the bulb, be absolutely sure that there are no fibers (cotton or otherwise) clinging to the bulb (I fogged a reflector by not checking)
Be sure any alcohol you use to clean the bulb is completely evaporated before turning the USL on
I normally charge the USL at a 1.2A rate using the Triton, but I do an occasional 0.2A slow charge to help keep the cells evenly charged.

Hope these help!


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## CroMAGnet (Dec 28, 2005)

Haha!!! I was very surprised to get mine so quickly from the time I was paid for the shipping! I was also surprised that it had a guard on it since I was hoping there would be a switch mod some day to make it truly a stealth U _S_ L. 

I turned it on right away and was pleasantly surprised. Lots-a-lumens yea!!! Since I was having a party last night I wanted to charge it fully and do some fire starting demonostrations for the 40 or so non-flashaholic victems. ehehheh. So I called Modamag for a few pointers on charging it up to full capacity. We set the HiTech charger to 1.0 amp and 4-16battery NiMH setting. Jonathan said it would be charged in about 1.5 hours and the charging light would turn off. Sure enough that's what happened. Then I let it sit for about six hours before pulling it out to show a few people. I turned it on for three or four 5-second bursts and then grabbed some tissue and tried to light it on fire. Wha Wha Whaaaa...  no fire.

I've messed aorund with JimH's USL and smoke appears the instant the light is pointed towards the tissue. Mine didn't even smoke. So, I'm not sure why but I figured I'll try again tonight when I have some time. I'm sure it's operator error. :shrug:

PS I too was expecting some typed up instructions like js made for his Tiger mods but maybe I was spoiled  Although the charger came with intructions, I was glad to be able to call JimH or ModaMag for some help setting the charger.


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## bwaites (Dec 28, 2005)

You guys and your fires!!

(White tissue doesn't work very well: to reflective, try newspaper.)

The packs should be charged at .5 amps on the HiTecs, watch the temp on the cell packs by checking the temp with your hand. I would not try higher until you are comfortable with how hot the pack gets at that rate.

Both Jim and I felt like 1 amp charge rates were a little high on the HiTech, as it does not have the sophisticated algorithms that the Triton does, and tends to get the cells quite a bit warmer.

I will put together a more comprehensive charging plan, but actually wanted to see if you all would actually figure it out, and how much info I should include.

There are threads here with all the info, but I guess I need to really pull them all together a little bit better.

Bill


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## Trashman (Dec 28, 2005)

Any reason why a 1 amp charge rate wouldn't be ok if the pack was placed
in front of a fan while charging?


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## bwaites (Dec 28, 2005)

It's just harder on the cells, theoretically they should handle it just fine, but remember it is the internal heat that gets them, and we can't measure that, only approximate it by making sure the outside doesn't get too hot.

I run a fan on all my charging cells, regardless of charger, though!!

Bill


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## tvodrd (Dec 28, 2005)

It's getting harder, and harder to try and keep-up on CPF these days! Bill, should I back-off the Triton's settings to 1/2A to be "nicer" to the pack?

Larry


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## CroMAGnet (Dec 28, 2005)

NO DOUBT! I am skimming title so fast and barely keeping up to all the posts. I'm a lot more selective too. :thinking:

I wonder if there is a solution... ahh! But a solution to what is the question!! 


tvodrd said:


> It's getting harder, and harder to try and keep-up on CPF these days! Bill, should I back-off the Triton's settings to 1/2A to be "nicer" to the pack?
> 
> Larry


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## bwaites (Dec 29, 2005)

Larry,

The Triton's charging algorithm is much more sophisticated and mine doesn't even warm up the batteries significantly at 1 amp, I routinely recharge my proto at 1.6A (1C).

Bill


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## bwaites (Dec 29, 2005)

Guys,

Ray has bumped the USL compilation thread to the top:

But here is the gist on charging, there is a charging thread on that compilation:

With two different charger options, just a word on the best way to charge the USL packs.

Remember, the USL is incredibly bright, but it runs hot. Running it in bursts of a minute or less and then letting it cool is much easier on it than continuous runs. Using it like this, the batteries may last as long as 13-15 minutes.

First, remember that heat is the enemy!! Never charge a pack straight off a discharge that has made the pack hot!!

These cells are designed to take some abuse, but remember, HEAT IS THE ENEMY! If you have to do continuous runs of the full pack, allow it to cool completely before charging. 

The USL is pretty tight inside, there is little air movement in the body and the machined aluminum bodies conduct heat well. Pay attention to that!! The bodies conduct heat well, especially from those nicely machined new bare threads.

The can that holds the socket is a tight fit and conducts heat well also.

Treat your packs nicely and they will take a lot of charges before wearing out. Treat them roughly, charging them hot, running full discharge after full discharge, and they may not do so well. 

YOU determine how long they will last by your use and charging habits.

For the two chargers, we would recommend the following.

MAKE SURE TO PLUG THE CHARGING CABLE BANANA PLUGS INTO THE CHARGER *BEFORE *PLUGGING IT INTO THE PACK! 

*Otherwise, if YOU plug the pack end in first, and the banana plugs touch: *ZAP* they will get 30 amps through the tiny micro-fit terminals.*

*The Ring connectors on the power supply cord should be placed Black=Black, Yellow=Red to connect. The flat sided portion of the Tamiya plug should therefore be NEGATIVE.*


NiMH charge using the Triton:

Set battery type to NiMH
Rate: .8 to 1.2 amps (???) or up to 2 amps for a rapid charge
Peak Delay at start: 6 min.
Temp cutoff: 120 F
No. cycles: 1 
Sensitivity: 3 mV
Top off: 100 mA

For the temp probe, I removed the sliding leg entirely and was able to push the probe between the pack and the body wall, with black part towards pack. This worked well for me, but you might check it out with the production run USL's. Perhaps something is slightly different.

For the HiTec charger:

Set to NiMH charge by pushing that button.

The HiTec, while highly recommended, does not have the sophisticated cycle programming that the Triton does. (DUH!)

Charging at .5 amps is prudent while you get used to the way the pack charges. The HiTec will make the pack warmer than the Triton, but if you find that it is HOT while charging, shut it off. As you make more cycles, you will find a happy medium, but remember, heat while charging a pack is a bad thing, the hotter the pack is while charging, the shorter the pack life. 

IF you have to charge it fast, keep an eye on the temp, and just unplug it if it gets hot. I have run cycles on the HiTec at .8 amps and the pack got pretty close to my comfort level. If you have time to charge at .3 amps, it will treat the pack more nicely.

*There have been instances where a bulb has "instaflashed" when the pack is hot off the charger. Allowing 1/2 hour or so seems to alleviate much of that risk.*

Bill


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## Codeman (Dec 29, 2005)

Good reminder, Bill.

A link to the USL Thread Index can be found at the bottom of my sigline.


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## brightnorm (Dec 29, 2005)

This is probably an incredibly dumb question but I'll ask it anyway. When I got my first Hi-Tec from Jim for the M6-R it came with a relatively small and compact power supply. I got another Hitec for the USL on the chance that I'd have to charge M-6 and USL simultaneously, and assumed I'd receive a similar power supply. When the big Pyramid arrived I couldn't recall the facts about it and assumed it was necessary because of the USL's charging demands and that a smaller supply was not appropriate for the USL. Do I have that right? I tried reviewing some of the USL threads for information (thanks Codeman!) but must have missed it.

Brightnorm


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## bwaites (Dec 29, 2005)

Not a dumb question at all!!

When so many people ordered the Tritons, I started looking for the best buy on a power supply that would handle them. (They REQUIRE a high current (14 amps) capable power supply, since they can recharge more than 20 cells at a time.)

In addition, several buyers were concerned about the open screw downs on the switching power supplies, and so the Pyramid seemed a better idea to calm their concerns.

Negotiating prices with suppliers, the Pyramid was the best buy available at the time that fit the bill, (Jim subsequently found a similar price on the smaller switching supplies). 

The price got better the more I bought, and so the high current Pyramid was available at essentially the same cost as the lower powered supplies I planned on getting for the HiTec's. (Due to the low volume of HiTecs, there was minimal volume discount.) 

So the Pyramid is capable of powering the Triton or a similar charger when (notice I said WHEN, not IF) you upgrade, though it is a bit of a brick!!

Bill


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## brightnorm (Dec 29, 2005)

Thanks Bill, just so I'm absolutely clear on this; the Pyramid should not be used with the Hi-Tec and it's Ok to use the smaller supply with the Hi-Tec to charge the USL. Is that right? Perhaps I'll store or sell the Pyramid and buy another small power supply from Jim if he has extras (at my request he replaced the one with exposed terminals with a safer one), or perhaps from somone else. When charging the USL with the Hi-Tec it seems that I need to stick around until charging is complete, rather than leave the house as I might be able to do with the Triton.

Brightnorm


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## bwaites (Dec 29, 2005)

NO, NO!

The HiTec is fine with the Pyramid, it works great!! My HiTec is powered by a Pyramid!

The Pyramid is just more than the HiTec needs, but it will work perfectly with it!!

Don't not use it!! (Yep that is a double negative, and it doesn't equal a positive!) I wouldn't have sent a power supply that was useless.

No one recommends charging without being present, but I do it all the time with all kinds of chargers. The HiTec is safe, just don't do a high rate charge and leave it unattended.

Bill


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## brightnorm (Dec 29, 2005)

Thanks Bill, I won't not use it!  The only problem is its size and how to store it (small apartmnent). But I'm also assuming that the small power supply is ok with the Hi-Tec for the USL

One last question: The Pyramid output has red + and black - connections but the connecting cord has black and yellow lugs. Should I assume black=black and yellow=red? (I didn't see this mentioned in charging instructions and since I'm an electronic illiterate I ask it now.

BN


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## bwaites (Dec 30, 2005)

Brightnorm,

Correct, Black=Black, Yellow=Red.

Those were new connections for this group, as I realized the Banana Clips I was using previously might be a recipe for disaster if plugged in inappropriately.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll remember to edit and include it.

Bill


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## brightnorm (Dec 30, 2005)

Thanks Bill

BN


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## Raindrop (Dec 30, 2005)

Any available information on the anticipated ship date for those of us waiting for our USLs and Tritons?


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## bwaites (Dec 30, 2005)

No specifics, all the packs I have are in bodies, most shipped. I have a few more to go out in the next couple days, but then we are battery limited.

js is building more packs, and we still are working on the leaking problem. He has not seen anymore in the cells he has precharged so far, so we have out fingers crossed!!

Soon, I hope, soon!!

But by now you all should feel like USL stands for "Ultimate So Long" light!! :nana: 

I REALLY appreciate the patience of all the USL buyers as we work through these unexpected problems!!

Bill


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## paulr (Dec 30, 2005)

Bill, we buyers (hopefully) all understood when we got into it, that the USL is a cutting edge project doing things that hadn't been tried before, and in any such project there are always snags. If we wanted ready-made products that were free of uncertainty and potential delays, we'd have gone to the hardware store and bought Magchargers. As the project hits and overcomes various obstacles, even when there's schedule slips, buyers should think of it as adventure rather than as being let down.

I'd like to express my admiration and gratitude for your perseverance in advancing the frontiers of flashaholism as you're doing, and I'm sure most of the rest of us feel the same way.


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## tvodrd (Dec 30, 2005)

Amen to what paulr just said! (Now where the heck are those little frying pans?) That was JimH's commitment to the project, and he has his. 

Larry


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## Raindrop (Dec 31, 2005)

paulr said:


> Bill, we buyers (hopefully) all understood when we got into it, that the USL is a cutting edge project doing things that hadn't been tried before, and in any such project there are always snags. If we wanted ready-made products that were free of uncertainty and potential delays, we'd have gone to the hardware store and bought Magchargers. As the project hits and overcomes various obstacles, even when there's schedule slips, buyers should think of it as adventure rather than as being let down.
> 
> I'd like to express my admiration and gratitude for your perseverance in advancing the frontiers of flashaholism as you're doing, and I'm sure most of the rest of us feel the same way.



Not sure if this was directed as a response to my query, or simply a statement of support for the USL project. I wasn't casting aspersions against the builders. Just looking for an update. It was my understanding that prior to the "cell problem" that the other limiting factor was a delay in the delivery of the Triton chargers. IF I didn't see that update, I apologize. I would simply like to know if the chargers and power supplies are available yet?

~Greg


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## bwaites (Dec 31, 2005)

Greg,

No offense taken, at least by me!!:nana: 

And I don't think that anyone else is really upset, just supportive and maybe a little protective of my fragile psyche! 

Power Supplies are here. The Triton dealer must be on vacation, as he hasn't answered my emails. 

He is a reputable dealer, and his store is still there, though closed. I thought it was for Christmas, but his answering machine says, "After the Holidays". 

He has not dinged my card, and last time I talked to him he told me that getting the quantity I requested all at one time might be difficult. Since I don't have any cell packs right now, I told him, "no problem, ship them when you get them."

I suspect that he doesn't have them yet, or he would have charged my card. They may be there waiting to be shipped when he gets back, or they may be held up at the supplier, which he sort of indicated by his, "might not get them all at once" statement. I don't really want to pay two shipping fees, that's happened a few times on stuff already and adds to the cost a bunch!! (Am I the only one who actually just charges what it costs to ship stuff? Some suppliers seem to make more off "shipping and handling" than off the products!) 

The manufacturer refused to drop ship directly to me, and also refused to allow me to buy direct at anything but full retail, unless I had a manufacturing facility seperate from my house. FAT CHANCE!! 

Like I said, maybe USL stands for "Ultimate So Long"!!!   


Bill


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## BVH (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill, Codeman, just an FYI that I put my second USL (place in line) up for sale. Just the unguarded light, not including extra bulb. I am keeping the SMO reflectored unit, 2 spare bulbs, Triton, Triton temp probe and PS. Will let you know when it sells and the details. I heard the hushed whisper of a Polarion calling. I WON'T, however, sell the second one!

Sales info sent to Bill and Ray.


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## marcspar (Jan 10, 2006)

Hello Bill & Ray,

Any idea what my approx eta should be for postition #29 on the list?

No rush, I just want to know when I can start salivating.....

Thanks for all the efforts you guys and Jim have been making for us.

Marc


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## bwaites (Jan 10, 2006)

The last of the overseas shipped standard USL's will be shipped late this week.

Then, when I have new packs from Jim, (and we are being EXTREMELY cautious to make sure this group has no leaks), I will start on the upgraded versions. 

My Triton provider has not returned from his Christmas vacation, so he hasn't shipped any out to me yet. His store is open, being run by his teenaged staff and the bookkeeper, but they tell me that they don't know anything about the Triton deal and will only give me the retail price on the units. He takes a month every year at this time, and is due to return late next week. The store would tell me that there are no big packages unopened in the store and that they don't have a large supply of chargers, so I suspect that they were backordered because of the holiday, unless they came in before he left and he stored them elsewhere. He has not charged my card, however, so I am reasonably comfortable that it's just one of those, "it'll wait until I get back things".

It's really no big deal, since I don't have battery packs yet, anyway, and it takes me a week or so to build up enough lights to ship when I do.

Bill


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## js (Jan 18, 2006)

OK. I will have two sample welded packs in my hands by late this week or early next week, according to my sales rep. So that investigation is moving along. We spec'd double thick (.010") and extra wide (.250") ribbon with four weld points per contact. I will test both sample packs extensively and compare against soldered packs, and see if there is any significant difference.

When that is done I will send Bill those two sample packs (if they check out), along with the soldered packs I have finished, and start either the massive build of welded or soldered packs, whichever we decide to go with. If I have to eat a bunch of leaky packs, so be it. I am painfully aware of how long this project has hung in limbo, and will do everything in my power to take care of my end of things as fast as possible. The Holidays and my back injury flaring up both slowed me down as far as the soldered packs. Although at this point I am really hoping that the welded packs work out because it is looking as if the end-to-end soldering is indeed a probable cause of the leaky cells. It's not definitely the cause, because we have had leaky cells straight out of the box, untouched. But still, not a single one of the cells I pre-cycled developed a leak, and statistically, I should have seen two or three of them leak.

In any case, one way or another, I will have sent Bill all of the packs (and then some) before the end of next month. That is my pledge.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 18, 2006)

Thanks for all the updates. I just love this frikin light! I'm glad I was able to get RED. It looks so kewl. All the education on battery heat is excellent and now that it's explained, sounds like common sense. If you just keep an eye out making sure the packs are as cool as possible, they should last a lot longer and provide many more enjoyable torching sessions 

I wasn't sure if this was ever discussed but has there been any talk of having a potentiometer option on the USL? I know this would interfere with the awesome job you all have done with efficacy and resistance etc. Maybe the bulb can't operate properly at lower levels or maybe a set lowest level.


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## Data (Jan 18, 2006)

js said:


> OK. I will have two sample welded packs in my hands by late this week or early next week, according to my sales rep. So that investigation is moving along. We spec'd double thick (.010") and extra wide (.250") ribbon with four weld points per contact. I will test both sample packs extensively and compare against soldered packs, and see if there is any significant difference.
> 
> When that is done I will send Bill those two sample packs (if they check out), along with the soldered packs I have finished, and start either the massive build of welded or soldered packs, whichever we decide to go with. If I have to eat a bunch of leaky packs, so be it. I am painfully aware of how long this project has hung in limbo, and will do everything in my power to take care of my end of things as fast as possible. The Holidays and my back injury flaring up both slowed me down as far as the soldered packs. Although at this point I am really hoping that the welded packs work out because it is looking as if the end-to-end soldering is indeed a probable cause of the leaky cells. It's not definitely the cause, because we have had leaky cells straight out of the box, untouched. But still, not a single one of the cells I pre-cycled developed a leak, and statistically, I should have seen two or three of them leak.
> 
> In any case, one way or another, I will have sent Bill all of the packs (and then some) before the end of next month. That is my pledge.



go Jim, go Jim, go Jim


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## bwaites (Jan 18, 2006)

The potentiometer is an interesting idea.

Streamlight makes a tailcap for the the SL20/35 that does it electronically, I understand, and Jim has one. I hoped to actually have one and see if it worked on the USL, but in thinking about it, it was designed for a much lower amperage level than what the USL produces, so I don't know if it would work anyway.

I have played with lower voltages on the USL lamp, and it stays fairly white well below 10 volts, but I don't know if many people would use it that way.

Bill


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## js (Jan 18, 2006)

CroMagNet,

A potentiometer, eh? Sounds as if you have been beguiled and bebothered by adrewwynn and NT.

Let's just say that Bill and I have a radically different design philosophy than AWR and NT.

A potentiometer all by itself will not work. A pot is just a variable resistor, and in order for a resistor to drop power it must also be able to dissipate that same power. And in order to be able to dissipate any significant amount of power, it must be heat sinked in one fashion or another. Bill and I both are unwilling to drop any kind of voltage across a resistive element at 9 amps. Not to put too fine a point on it or anything, but we both think that is *ahem*, CRAZY.

Now, a pot controlling a switching/PWM regulator in order to have a variable voltage output is another story. However, the USL was designed from the get go to be a low path resistance, direct drive, simplest circuit possible light. We can and will make at least one regulated incan in the future, but if we go to a regulated light, we will skip over any linear regulation schemes and go right to PWM.

Short answer: no. No pot. No variable output USL. We'll both be thrilled if we can just finish this freakin' project before Spring.

But have you looked into an SL20X with dimmer cap? Check out Phaserburn's thread in the incan forum about un-sucking your SL20X. I have an SL60 (i.e. with an 1160 LA) with a dimmer cap, and it's a pretty neat variable output setup.


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## Codeman (Jan 18, 2006)

js said:


> ...
> We'll both be thrilled if we can just finish this freakin' project before Spring.


Me, too, and I'm not having to do much of anything anymore. The dedication you and Bill have shown on this project, given it's humble beginnings of just a few USL's for a few friends, continues to amaze me.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 18, 2006)

js said:


> Red reply by CroMAGnet,
> 
> A potentiometer, eh? Sounds as if you have been beguiled and bebothered by adrewwynn and NT.There are far too many posts for me to be able to keep up with reading, especially anrewwynn's lenghty technical enthusiastic posts. Besides, ModaMag and I were talking about using potentiometers (or reostats as he called them) long before andrewwynn even joined CPF. I definately want want to get his BAM Quad LED mod. Probably be using an X bin by the time it comes to market though
> 
> ...


So are you saying that putting a resistor in the path, one must heatsink this special resistor that is able to handle all that much power and that this is difficult to do in the USL? or in the pot? :thinking:

If that could be done then what is the next challenge in line to make an adjustable USL using a pot or PWM etc. I'm not trying to change this great light, just trying to learn


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## bwaites (Jan 18, 2006)

There really isn't anywhere inside the USL to put a resistor that would handle 9 amps and 12 volts.

That said, Jim and I have toyed with the idea of a regulated USL, but back in the beginning, we both decided that with the available cells, the runtime was short enough that regulating it in any manner just didn't make sense.

The lamps I was expecting from Osram never showed, so I'm back to square one on that, but there are some options still for lower powered versions.

Bill


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## ddaadd (Jan 18, 2006)

js said:


> In any case, one way or another, I will have sent Bill all of the packs (and then some) before the end of next month. That is my pledge.



Thanks for the update js, looks like we'll be getting the best packs possible either way, and that is good news..

Man I like seeing this thread at the top, made my day!

:rock:


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## js (Jan 19, 2006)

Cromag,

We could put a regulator in the USL. There IS actually maybe just enough space for an LVR. And an LVR would not drop any power and so we would not need to heat sink anything. When Bill and I do a regulted light it will be a whole lot more sophisticated than a linear regulation circuit.

But none of that is actually the problem. The problem is that in order to have regulation with a buck regulator, you need an *over-voltage* Which means you would need to go to 12 or more NiMH cells in order to have the 62138 be regulated to 12.9 or 13.0 volts for any length of time. And 13 or 14 cells would be better. Heck, I'd say 15 cells. So that would mean a 3D light.

Plus, that means that the runtime will go way up, which in and of itself is a fine thing. But the resulting heat would be a killer. At least a year ago Bill and I and Wilkey were discussion the possibility of a heat isolated head. AWR and NT are talking about some sort of thermal insulation between the threads of the head and the threads on the body. But we were talking about a machinable ceramic disc, with holes for the lamp lead wires and for the three or four small bolts which would squeeze the disc between the head flange and the body flange.

And we saw some pluses to the idea. But if you thermally isolate the head, that will mean that its temperature will go WAY up due to the lack of heat sinking into the body. And it already gets pretty hot. Now add increased runtime, and you've got (best case scenario) a head that will cause burns to any flesh it touches, and (worst case scenario) the internal temp of the head may get hot enough to compromise the pinch of the lamp. In which case it would --wait for it--

EXPLODE.

Fun, fun, fun!

Plus, I mean, come on, if you've looked at AWR's output graphs of USL vs. Mag 100R, you'll see that the difference is very slight and that the USL has a pretty nice and flat discharge graph even though it is direct drive.

You are only likely going to use this light in bursts anyway. Who the heck cares about regulation on something like an exhibition hot-rod light? The soft start would be nice, but I wouldn't want to go from a 2D to a 3D body in order to have it. I use my USL all the time, and I have yet to blow a bulb, or to even come close to seeing a less than brilliant white beam.

The fact is that designing and building an Aurora class light is very difficult and involves a great many trade-offs and considerations.

I know this will sound rather immodest, but I don't care: Bill's USL is in my opinion an excellent light that has optimized all of the various trade-offs that need to be made. The USL rocks. It will be state of the art in its class for some time to come.

Now we just need to get them out to people ASAP.


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## nethiker (Jan 23, 2006)

Hi Bill, I'm back from vacation. You can send my USL anytime now . 

I'm caught up on the progress. You guys are doing a great job keeping us informed. Just wanted to make sure that you don't keep a hold on my light when it's ready to ship. 

Thanks Bill and Jim for the continued efforts to produce such a quality project.

Greg


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## paulr (Jan 23, 2006)

Variable power imo doesn't make much sense in an incan light, because of the color shift and efficiency hit as the power level varies from optimum. PWM regulation makes perfect sense but the idea is to regulate the output and make it constant, not variable.

I'm looking forward to a PWM regulated light from Bill and JS even if it's much less powerful than the USL. A 2D sized light with a WA01185 would be great. Or a Tigerlight FBOP sized light with six 18650's and external charging contacts: wow!

I like the idea of welded packs in the USL especially if the welding is done at some factory/assembly shop so JS doesn't have to solder all the packs by hand. It means increasing the quantity of packs is just a matter of placing another order with the assembly shop. Even with no leakage problems, some USL's will get "iPod syndrome" and need battery replacement sooner or later.


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## brightnorm (Jan 23, 2006)

At 10-1/8" and 24.3oz the USL fulfills the Flashaholic fantasy of an impossibly bright light in an impossibly small body. The difference between a MAG 2D and a MAG 3D is very significant; in daily carry and use the difference is enormous. I have EDC'd both the USL and the Magcharger in a variety of belt pouches, holsters and loops and the USL is definitely EDC'able whereas the 3D is not (unless it's on your Sam Browne along with other professional accoutrements).

The other factor is safety. My USL is a completely finished light, tested and honed to the highest standards and manufactured with a great deal of thought given to safety. When I read through the threads and saw how dedicated the creators were to making not only the brightest monster light of its size, but also the safest, I knew I was in good hands.

Brightnorm


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## andrewwynn (Jan 23, 2006)

JS is 'dead on' about why a potentiometer is a no-go in a situation like this. 

The USL is definitely the pinacle of KISS bad-to-the-bone philosophy. 

There is really no point in trying to introduce variable output in the likes of a USL.. the only significant improvement in droppping voltage on the lamp is an increase in burn hours... who cares? i factor $1-2/hr into the operational cost for wearing of bulbs.. that is not bad at all!

The LED model is a different story completely.. you can PWM or change current to output different amounts of light with LED.. it's one of the primary advantages of LED.. if you put in 1/2 the power you get roughtly 1/2 the light.. conversely... dropping light output to 10% with incan can still require 80% of the power.. not to mention the color shifts to sunset red-orange.

So.. that brings me to the 'viable option' for dimming the likes of the USL (Mag100 etc).. use a different lamp. I have several on order.. 30W, 50W and the alternative 100W.. not sure which have been tried in the USL, but with any luck the 30W or 50W osram that is about the same size and filament height would be a direct swap to have still one heck of a lot of light but double or triple the runtime while being nice and white and bright. 

The power on the resistor when you do put an inline resistor (rheostat) to change power to a lamp is not equal to the lamp power (100W in this case) but is equal to the product of the voltage drop and the current.. i..e if you want to drop 1V it means you'll be dissipating about 9W of power on that resistor! that will make it about 300deg F in about 1 minute! 

The reality is with incan.. any method you choose to 'dim'.. you really are changing the efficiency of the light greatly.. it amounts to this scenario.. dimming to 80% power will drop the light output to 10% in a typical situation.. so you basically do not extend runtime very much.. knocking down the output a little bit (say to 95%).. you can cause a nearly unnoticable drop in output but greatly lengthen bulb life.. IMHO the only reason to play that game.. if you want dimming.. go LED.. if you want balls to the walls bright simplicity .. go USL. 

I have claim to the baddest 'USL wannabe' i'm aware of.. 100W 'Mag100' and it has a couple perks over the USL (soft start and no peak voltage = instant use avail. off the charger).. but it uses the same exact cells to run and uses 12 of them in the time that the USL uses 11.. it is not as efficient and it's hosted in a 2 1/2D light, making the USL noticably smaller... being 'in the thick' of things and in a position where i could or possibly 'should' see the USL as competition, i can't say something bad about it.. it's the baddest light you could have bought a year ago..if they were sale today it's the baddest light you could buy today.

Using the Mag100 the 'functionality' is identical to the USL, and those of you waiting i can say you will be absolutely awed and i would be shocked to hear anything other than the report of 'worth the wait'. 

What Bill said about 'toyed with the idea'.. 'didn't make sense'.. he was and is correct.. good to see that lower power lamp options are in the works. I expect to have some myself for the Mag100 and logically if they work there they should work in the USL as long as they can take the brief spike of voltage at startup. 

I really like the idea of the ceramic insulation from lamp heat, JS... and we've been thinking along the same lines. Weve gotten some of the finned heads from 'mac' and i would recommend them to anybody with a USL if i'm correct in asuming that a D sized head will thread on... i think he charges $25 for the finning.. in my first test .. there was a 30 degreeF thermal gradient from the bezel to the center of the head after 4 minutes.

You will in-fact as JS pointed out.. notice how ruler-flat the output of the USL is in-spite of it being direct-drive.. it really is stunning. The reality is with the smaller cells used in the current Mag100 (same as USL).. the output is identical after about 4-5 minutes.. the graph shown is for the Mag100 with the much bigger capacity cells (GP2000s)... the primary advantages for the Mag100 aren't about output.. just insta-flash protection and low-voltage shutdown. 

What he said about the USL and brilliant white beam and no way to go to a 3D host to achieve regulation.. a 2 yr old when shown the Mag100 vs the USL would say 'duh the USL is better.. just as bright and 3/4 the size'. 

I haven't seen the USL first-hand, but have seen the 'output' by reproducing it with the Mag100. I've seen the quality control and the work and care going into the project and coming from the other side of that coin i know the effort that goes into making something like it.. anybody that worked on the USL project definitely deserves a big kudos. 

'what he said' regarding the dif. brightnorm mentioned about the 2D vs 3D.. The Mag100 is as bright as the USL.. nowhere near as small even though my copy is much smaller than a full 3D with the 1/2 size.. it's no 2D. 

I hope everybody gets their USL soon as possible.. one of my new CPF buddies from Milwaukee is on the list so we will be able to do a head-to-head sometime soon... it would not suprrise me if the current model Mag100 is bested by the USL start to finish in light output and runtime, and i will be posting the outcome either way so people can see i wasn't kidding about how similar they are. (in output)

-awr


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## js (Jan 24, 2006)

AWR,

Please feel free to use the ceramic insulator disk/flange idea to heat-isolate the head. That would be worth checking out, especially when/if you guys go to the GP2000 4/5A cells and up the runtime. That's a major advantage of the 3D form factor--using larger 4/5A cells--and it is what Wilkey did with the Aurora. The light that started it all.

And the soft-start of the Mag100 is definitely a plus, because if you grab a USL hot off a charge, and turn it on, you are almost guaranteed to instaflash it.

Which brings me to the point of the LDO circuit in the Mag100R. As a peak-hold off and soft start, it's a very good addition, and makes for a more reliable light.

Different designs, different choices, different philosophies.

****Everyone,****

I will have two welded sample packs in my hands this afternoon and will test them tonight (they were made from the cells I broke-in and cycled loose in the FM 9 AA to 3D holders) and report back tonight.

Hold tight, people, delivery time is getting closer! And if these packs have the same performance as soldered packs, so much the better, because they will be much more proof against breakage from drops and knocks. Impervious to them, actually. At least at the joints themselves. The cells still don't like to be dropped, though. Plus, obviously, if the welded packs are a go, then Bill will get all of them in his hot little hands in a couple weeks from now.

I will spare no expense or difficulty to move this process along. I had the sample packs over-nighted to me, for example. And although I could have had 25 soldered packs in Bill's hands by now, I am definitely concerned that these cells have pressure seals that are susceptible to heat damage from end-to-end soldering, and I think that if the welded packs work out that they will be the better way to go. And if some of those start leaking, well, then we know it wasn't the end-to-end soldering that did it. And if they don't, well, GREAT!

OK. More tonight . . .


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## js (Jan 24, 2006)

Oh, I almost forgot!

There are a number of good, lower-powered Osram lamps that will drop right into the USL socket. I'll check out my notebooks and post them here tonight, but, IIRC, there is a 25 watt and a 50 watter that are both nicely driven by 11 NiMH cells.

Ha, ha! I have my notebook in front of me. Let's see here:

64261: 30 watts, 50 hrs. life, 750 bLu.
64610: 50 watts, 50 hrs. life, 1600 bLu.

I don't have experience with either of these, but they are both G6.35 bases, 12 volts, and driven relatively hard at that voltages (50 hrs.). Philips may have some suitable lamps, too, for all I know. Basically you are looking for a G6.35, 12 volt incan, with 100 hours of life or less.

Wilkey knows all the right choices and owns them and has played with them himself, I am sure.

The 64440 IRC and 64447 IRC lamps can also be used, although it is a tight fit through the reflector bore. But keep in mind that these are low-pressure, long-life lamps at 12 volts, and that they have an infra-red reflective coating on the envelope, which means that you do *NOT* want to try to over-drive these. Not an issue if you are just dropping them into the USL; I only mention it for modders benefit.

Anyway, the IRC lamps have a lovely, lovely, soft warm glowing beam, and the most dreamy beautiful white wall beam shot you have ever seen, but they are nowhere near as efficient as the 62138 or the lamps I mentioned above. They are efficient for long-life bulbs, but those are down around like 17 bLu/W (!), whereas the HLX series are up around 30-35 bLu/W when driven hard.

Still, the IRC lamps are amazing little pieces of technology! They have platinum coated pins, an infra-red reflective coating to keep the heat in better and improve efficiency and CCT, and they have an axial filament with the return spring going down INSIDE THE COIL! They are neat, neat, neat! And worth checking out if you can get your hands on them. Very few places carry them and usually must special order them from Germany. The 64440 IRC is a 50 watt, and the 64447 is a 65 watt. The 64440 is brighter than an 1185 on 9 cells, but not by much. So that should give you a clue as to how NOT efficient these are.

If you use one of these you will notice that it takes almost 5 seconds for the filament to stop glowing when you turn off the power. Must be that IR coating, I'm guessing.

So there are four choices for you. Next time I talk with Wilkey, I'll ask him for the low down on 12V lower powered Aurora class light lamp options.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 24, 2006)

Wow! So much fruit this thread is bearing. 

AWR: Thanks a LOT for spelling out in detail all of those issues I was trying to understand. 

js: It's great to see the comradery and knowledge transfer among the CPF leadership. 

I have been wondering about those bulbs for a year at least. Any idea of runtime on any of them?

js: I was just reminded, that just 18 months ago I read my first CPF posts such as this, which had run 12 months long through the development of your Tigerlight mods. Didn't think I would become a part of such threads, however tiny my part. LOL.  Funnier still, I thought you all were crazy in the way you bought and sold "EDC" lights. Now I must look like that to all the n00bs with just one look at my sigline! 

Here's to another great flashaholic year. 

You guys made my day


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## bwaites (Jan 24, 2006)

Everyone, please see the thread about Production List updates.

Thanks Jim for all your work, and Andrew for your comments above.

Bill


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## bwaites (Jan 24, 2006)

Just got off the phone with Jim.

The welded packs did not arrive, but he was able to track the shipping and they will be in tomorrow.

Bill


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## js (Jan 25, 2006)

Yeah.

When I called on Friday, I was told that the packs were done but that "they didn't make it out of the building in time" to be shipped.

OK. Fine. So I called Monday morning (9 AM their time) and asked that the packs be shipped UPS over-night.

Tuesday night rolls around, and NO PACKS. So I call and am told that they "missed the truck" on Monday, but that they went on Tuesday, and I got the tracking number.

So, I am now confident (tracking number in hand) that the packs will be on my door step by 6 pm tonight. I will report back after testing.


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## js (Jan 25, 2006)

Got the packs today and did a charge on one and a discharge test. I really should have given it a longer over-charge after completion of fast charge, but I was anxious to see what the performance would be.

The answer?

Quite simply, we're in business people! The quadruple welded contacts and double thick double wide nickel ribbon connectors are low enough resistance to handle 9 amps just fine. The pack I tested came in at 13.4 volts. It's only the first cycle, and as I said, I'm not certain that all the cells are equalized, so I won't publish the discharge numbers just yet, but they will be forth-coming shortly.

What I will do is drop some pictures of these black beauties:







And here is a closer shot of the back of the pack to show the ribbon connections better:






The build quality is good: you can see that they are straight and true, and not put together with hot glue. The adhesive is spec'd to the melting point of the shrink wrap, and the welded joints will be very tough and impossible to break without ripping them apart with a pair of pliers.

So, as I said, we are good to go. I am packing up all of the cells tonight to send them out tomorrow to the company which is making these packs. I expect that they will be able to do them THE SAME WEEK THEY GET THE CELLS (yeee haaaaw!) because the packs couldn't be simpler and we are providing the cells to them directly. I will have them mailed straight to Bill.

What a relief! I am so pleased that this solution will work. I've got to say that I had some doubts that welded joints would handle 8 1/2 amps without dropping some voltage, but in this case, they were unfounded. I'm sure the thicker wider ribbon with four weld points is the key here. Anyway, good news folks. Good news.


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## karlthev (Jan 25, 2006)

Great news! :rock:


karl


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## ddaadd (Jan 25, 2006)

js !!  That's great news !! :rock:

:goodjob: 

They do look like they are well built. 

I can sense your enthusiasm!

:wave:


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## Codeman (Jan 25, 2006)

Thanks for all the work you've put into this, Jim. I hated to heard we had problems, and I know this has to have been frustrating. I hope you celebrate some - you've certainly earned it!


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## Raindrop (Jan 25, 2006)

Good news on resolving the cell issue. Any chance that you can get the Triton Chargers going so that we can see the completed USL's soon??? You had mentioned in a previous thread that your supplier was on vacation and I wouldn't want to see him take another one right when you need to get the chargers. 

~Greg


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## BVH (Jan 25, 2006)

Jim, never thought I'd have a reason to be saying "what a gorgeous battery pack". Who really cares what a battery pack looks like - until I saw this one. Its really is impressive!


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## paulr (Jan 25, 2006)

That's great news. Um, aren't the going to put tabs on the ends? I'm also wondering how they weld the cells together, though I think that part is done all the time.


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## Codeman (Jan 25, 2006)

Raindrop said:


> Good news on resolving the cell issue. Any chance that you can get the Triton Chargers going so that we can see the completed USL's soon??? You had mentioned in a previous thread that your supplier was on vacation and I wouldn't want to see him take another one right when you need to get the chargers.
> 
> ~Greg



Bill answered this earlier, right here.


REMINDER - If anyone hasn't read and responded to Bill's request in USL production List HELP!!!!, please do so as soon as possible.


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## Raindrop (Jan 25, 2006)

Wouldn't have thought to look in a beamshots thread for production status. Noticed it after I posted but can only hope that the supplier doesn't extend his vacation too much longer.


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## bwaites (Jan 26, 2006)

Raindrop, I wouldn't either, that was a direct answer to a question asked there.

The store assures me they expect him back anytime. Evidently, he calls them periodically, but they haven't done anything about asking him about the Tritons. I guess when you pay store help, they aren't supposed to think, or maybe he doesn't pay them to think.

I expect to have an answer by the end of the month.

Bill


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## andrewwynn (Jan 26, 2006)

wow that is really nice news about the pack.. i absolutely agree about the 4 tacks of weld.. not as sure how much difference the double thickness has, but obvously half the resistance in that part of the equation and with 10 of them.. (joints).. even if it means 2mohm.. that'd be 20mohm.. that'd be 175mV drop which is huuuge when it comes to the output change.. most excellent solution and the packs couldn't be more beautiful... and i can't imagine the relief for JS what a bit monkey off your back, huh? (that things came together as hoped).. hope it means a lot less stress and work for ya... and that people can get their awe-inspriing.. jaw dropping lights asap.

-awr


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## js (Jan 26, 2006)

paulr said:


> That's great news. Um, aren't the going to put tabs on the ends? I'm also wondering how they weld the cells together, though I think that part is done all the time.



paulr,

They wanted to put tabs on the + and - end points, but I had them removed from the drawing. The problem is that I am not sure that there is anywhere for them to go without protruding into the space which is taken up by the flashlight body, or crowding the pathway where the charging connector leads come through from the back of the pack. Bill and I actually talked about this last night. We may talk about it again.

But, just as before with the soldered packs, there is room enough to solder directly to the top and bottom of the starting and ending pack cells. Nothing has changed there.

I don't know, though. Given the possibility that the soldering is causing problems with the pressure seal, it may be a good idea to have tabs put on and have them protrude INWARDS towards the center or sidewards-center of the pack. Hmmm. Something to think about.

As for how the cells are welded end-to-end, well, . . . they aren't. They are placed side by side, and a ribbon goes across the top from the positive of one cell to the negative of the other, then the ribbon is welded at the contact points, and then the cells are brought into end-to-end orientation by bending the ribbon over on itself.

The other way it is done is to remove the shrink wrap and place the ribbon centered over the + contact of the bottom cell, with extra length sticking out on either side. Then it is welded to the + contact and the top battery is brought down onto it (without shrink wrap), and the side bits are bent upwards to touch the sides of the negative casing of the top battery. Then both sides are welded.

This second method is considered a superior method of building welded packs, but the problem is that when done this way, the completed stacks of cells which make up a pack have these irregularities along thier sides, which in our case, would be a BAD idea, as there is already very little extra room for these new welded packs. They definitely fit, and with a little room to spare for increases in size with increases in temperature, but I wouldn't have wanted to risk having the packs built this second way.

Plus, the number of welds, and width and thickness of the ribbon were all specified right in the drawing, and so that really negates the need to ensure that there are more by doing a bent-up side connection construction. Also, however this company does it, they end up with nice straight stacks, even though they use the fold-over method, and that is the only other reason to use the bent-up side method.

More information that you wanted probably, but there it is.

AWR,

Thanks for your recent posts. They are much appreciated.

I haven't gotten scientific on it's a** yet, but I am quite certain that there is very little resistance in these joints. A welded joint already has a lower resistance than a pressure contact point. But in any case, I haven't brought my DMM to bear on the situation. I will, though. I will.

As for the double thickness, I think it was important. They normally use 5 mil thick ribbon. Can you believe that? Although, if you've ever attacked nickel ribbon with cutters and pliers, you know that the stuff is unbelievably tough for its thickness. And they normally use 1/8" wide ribbon, too. These USL pack ribbons are 10 mils thick and--now that I think of it--MORE than a quarter inch wide. Neat. I'll have to measure their width. Maybe they are triple wide?

As for reducing my work load, God yes, this is going to be a boon. I never would have considered this if we didn't have the problems with the leaking packs and if I didn't find any leaking cells on the batch I pre-cycled. That got me to worrying that maybe it was the end-to-end soldering that was weakening the seals. I have end-to-end soldered other AA cells and never had this problem, so I would guess that these seals are more susceptible to heating, or are of lower quality than the Sanyos and Titaniums and Energizers. But it's just a guess. These are the things that drove me to investigate the welded pack solution, which in the beginning I wouldn't have considered at all.

So I really am super psyched that this is going to work out. 

Also, thank you to everyone who expressed appreciation and thanks!


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## MSI (Jan 26, 2006)

AWR, there is no way that the joints will have 2 mohm resistance, I think it is safe to assume 0 mohm resistance. I have measured Anderson Powerpoles to only have 0.15 mohm resistance so the welds should have much less resistance. It is the nickel ribbons that makes up the resistance, you find the formula for calculating the resistance here.


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## js (Jan 26, 2006)

Good link, MSI. So let's see. These are 10 mil thick which is .025 cm thick, and they are about .8 cm wide or a little less, and about 1.2 cm long. So, that's {1.2 / (.025 * .8)} * 6.9 x 10^-6

Which is (1.2 / .02) * 6.9 x 10^-6

or, .414 mOhm per ribbon. And there are a total of ten joints, which equals about 4.1 mOhm, which is a .035 volt drop at 8.5 amps. Zowie. That's pretty rockin'.


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## andrewwynn (Jan 26, 2006)

that *is* pretty rockin'.. not to mention in-reality you aren't calculating the parallel resistance of the touching doubled-over ribbon.. say that contact is 2mohm that brings the resistance down to 0.34mohm per. NICE. 

.150 is one hundred fifty not 15 mohm.. the 2mohm number was saying that even if you are 'only saving' 2mohm per contact it's a big difference.. i.e. going from the 2.3mohm i might be getting in my pack to the 0.3 mohm in this JS pack.. it will get you 175mV more to the lamp.. this is why i need an extra cell.. of course.. i already had a cell fail in my Mag100 pack, and it was sure nice to be able to un-bolt the one row of cells to replace the one.. there are always trade-offs.. but i wouldn't let that scare anybody away from a welded pack.. there is a LOOOTTT more QC going into the USL packs than my initial proto pack for the Mag100.. i.e. i didn't do any kind of cell matching or breaking in etc.

-awr

ps.. JS.. you're welcome i think of cpf like a family we are supposed to keep encouraging each other, and i know I for one appreciated quality encouragment and like to dish it out when it's deserved.


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## js (Jan 28, 2006)

OK. I have some less than great news. In fact, I have some bad news, to tell the truth. It will probably be 4 weeks from now before the battery packs are shipped to Bill. It could be faster than that, and it won't be longer, but even so, that's a major disappointment and not what I expected.

Oh well, Bill will be getting a small number of packs from me between now and then, and we're going to have a good number of extra packs made up so that we never have to deal with this sort of situation again. So that's good. And will mean a quick turn around in case someone's pack does develope a bad cell.

But still, that sucks, and is at least 2-3 weeks slower than I expected. And I busted my *** to test, sort, and pack up 600+ cells the same night I did the first test of the first pack, and get them in the mail the next day all for nothing, aparently. Although, perhaps we will catch a brake and they will be able to make these earlier, and if that happens, the cells will be there, waiting and ready. We can always hope.

OK. Sorry to have to pass on bad news everyone. I guess I should focus on the positive: that we have a solution to the leaky pack problem, have the cells in hand, and will definitely have the packs to Bill in 4 weeks or less. That's something; something definite. And that's good. <mumbling to self>it's all good. it's all good.


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## karlthev (Jan 28, 2006)




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## bwaites (Jan 29, 2006)

Though it is slower than we wanted, it is a timetable, at least!!

It is better than some of the setbacks we've had, like the "the cells will be here when they get here" issues we had before, and the issues with leaking that we couldn't find a cause for anyway!!

So now we know, and off we go!!

Everyone, Jim has gone above and beyond for this, so we all should be thankful!!!

Bill


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## marcspar (Jan 29, 2006)

I am sure it will be worth the wait! Thanks guys. Any word on the Tritons yet?

Marc


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## Carpe Diem (Jan 31, 2006)

Thanks for your efforts. 

The wait will undoubtedly be worth it!


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## bwaites (Jan 31, 2006)

The Triton dealer is back and THINKS that there should be no problem having them by the time I have battery packs to go in lights, towards the end of February.


Bill


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## js (Feb 1, 2006)

I have some discharge curve data:

This is for cycle #2 of welded pack #2. Plus, before the first 8 or 9 amp discharge against the 62138, I did the usual .1C forming charge for 16 hours, 1C discharge, then 1C charge. Then the first "cycle"--discharge against the 100 watt lamp, charge, then this second cycle. OK. Just so we're clear--TMI, no doubt. 

Min___Voltage
0______13.9
1______12.69
2______12.60
3______12.62
4______12.59
5______12.52
6______12.42
7______12.29
8______12.09
9______11.79
10_____10.11

at which point I turned off.

Note that the voltage actually went up from min 2 to min 3. This is due to the increasing temperature of the pack. In fact, I could have "cheated" a bit and gotten a better curve by doing the discharge with a warmer pack. I would have risked instaflashing the lamp, of course, but also, I wanted to document the more likely case of a room temperature battery pack, ESPECIALLY given that the USL really shouldn't be operated hot off the charger.

This, of course, is an advantage of the Mag100R with its soft start and peak holdback circuit: no need to worry about the hot off the charger instaflashing situation.

Anyway, some may note that these numbers are better than the results for the field test packs I tested, but not quite as good as the one production run pack I tested. This is possibly due simply to the luck of the draw--i.e. the one production pack I tested had more above average cells. Or it could be a slight difference between the soldered joints and these welded ones. Because despite MSI's contention that the spot welds have zero contact resistance, I have my doubts about that. It depends on many factors, especially upon whether or not the entire ribbon is actually touching the entire contact surface under it, or if the weld spots are actually holding it just off the surface. If the latter, all the current must go through the four spot welds, and this just MUST have some amount of resistance associated with it. This is why I specified four of them.

Personally, I think this represents just the luck of the draw more than any extra resistance in the joints, but it's just my educated guess and not any definitive finding.

However that may be, it is certainly the case that there is very little difference between an MPV of 12.9 and 12.5. Also, note that the performance of this pack will continue to increase with the first couple dozen cycles, both in voltage under load, and capacity.

I will not be doing further testing, however. I want to get these off to Bill so he can check them out and ensure that there are no hidden assembly issues with these welded packs. I imagine that he may test one or two of the welded production run packs for fun and educational value, but I leave that up to him. My main goal was simply to ensure that the joints could indeed handle the current being drawn through them. And they certainly can.


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## js (Feb 14, 2006)

I have good news and I have bad news:

The GOOD news is that 48 packs were shipped out on Friday, sooner than promised.

The BAD news is that they are on their way TO ME! Which is rather annoying as I specifically told my contact there that I would want them sent to a different address which I would email him. I hadn't yet done that, and called him Monday afternoon to give him the address verbally when he tells me that the packs shipped out already.

Oh, well. I am scheduled to get them on the 16th, and I will turn them around back to Bill's side of the country. LOL. The cells came from China to the West coast, were shipped to me on the East, were shipped back to the West to be made into packs, were shipped back yet again to me in the East, and I will once more send them back West. Crazy. Forget end-to-end soldering, all that travelling would make anyone a bit worn out. hehe.

But seriously, this is good news. 50 packs will be going out to Bill on Monday of next week via USPS priority mail. So he should be getting them Wednesday or Thursday. And that will mean a restart to the flow of USL orders.


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## BVH (Feb 14, 2006)

Jim, thanks for the good news! Can't wait to get my USL!


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## andrewwynn (Feb 14, 2006)

js said:


> This, of course, is an advantage of the Mag100R with its soft start and peak holdback circuit: no need to worry about the hot off the charger instaflashing situation.



In all fairness though.. with the 12AA pack, the USL gets a little longer runtime.... with the extra cell i'm pushing more current and the cells are in series. Add in an auto shut off when the light is still twice as bright at a mag85, i really have to hand it to the magical balance achieved with the USL. 

-awr


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## ddaadd (Feb 16, 2006)

js said:


> But seriously, this is good news. 50 packs will be going out to Bill on Monday of next week via USPS priority mail. So he should be getting them Wednesday or Thursday. And that will mean a restart to the flow of USL orders.



:rock:

I like it!!

Ultimate Shipping Light

Who gets all the frequent flier miles?


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## mst3k (Feb 16, 2006)

Its terrific news unless your above 50 on the list.


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## bwaites (Feb 16, 2006)

Remember that a lot of the under 50 lights have been sent!

Something like 20 or so.

Bill


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## scrappy (Feb 16, 2006)

But it really doesn't matter though because there are no Triton chargers yet right? Or have they been delivered and I just missed the post?

Thanks

Rich

EDIT: Forget it, I just saw the post about having the chargers by the end of February...

Sorry.


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## bwaites (Feb 16, 2006)

I guess I should remind everyone that every pack takes almost 2 days to condition. 

Slow charge at .1 amp (that takes one day all by itself), then slow discharge, then charge at .5-1 amp, then medium discharge, then charge at 1 amp, then discharge on USL draw, then recharge. Theoretically, I could skip the middle step, but it's one more check against leakage, so I will keep doing it.

And I have to do it for every pack. Once the rest of the Triton's show up I can speed the process some, but it still takes better than an hour to build each light, so about 2/day is my max, and that is assuming no other repsonsibilities.

But the show is getting closer to being over, almost exactly a year since starting to receive payments.

Finally, another plug to have people check this thread; 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/105416&page=1&pp=30

and make sure you have sent me current info!!

Bill


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## mst3k (Feb 17, 2006)

bwaites said:


> Remember that a lot of the under 50 lights have been sent!
> 
> Something like 20 or so.
> 
> Bill


 
:rock:


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## brightnorm (Feb 17, 2006)

Just a brief report to say that I've been using my USL steadily since I received it and have EDC'd it at night in a large Ripoffs holster rather than a Mag "loop" for extra safety. It has performed flawlessly and has never failed to elicit awe and even consternation from onlookers.

I have been charging it on the Hi-Tec for about 2.5hrs at slightly under .5amp and it is barely warm when fully charged. I insta-flashed only once when I couldn’t resist trying it immediately after a charge. Since then I wait about 1/2hr and have never had a problem. 

Frankly, I really can’t find anything negative to say about the USL, but I do have a question: Has anyone compared beams between the LOP and smooth reflectors? My LOP gives a beautiful broad beam with surprising throw but the long-throw Flashaholic devil that lurks within asks whether throw can be even more extended with the smooth reflector.

Brightnorm


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## ddaadd (Feb 17, 2006)

Uuugghh, have to check back with you in a month or so, when mine arrives.

Gotta envy you for having become so comfortable with yours. Nice to know

how reliable it has been for you. Anyway, I've got a FiveMega 3.5" smoothie

head on order for use on a MagHID and the USL ( once I cut the cam from it). 
I'm looking forward to posting a few beamshots, in due time.....


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## bwaites (Feb 17, 2006)

Bightnorm,


The smooth will through _a little _further, but the axial lamps really have an interesting pattern, and because of the filament orientation, the orange peel doesn't affect throw as much as it smoothes the beam. 

If you HAVE to have the ultimate thrower, the smooth gets you a tiny bit, but my favorite is actually the HOP!

Bill


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## DaveNagy (Feb 18, 2006)

brightnorm said:


> Just a brief report to say that I've been using my USL steadily since I received it and have EDC'd it at night in a large Ripoffs holster rather than a Mag "loop" for extra safety. It has performed flawlessly and has never failed to elicit awe and even consternation from onlookers.


Which Ripoffs holster are you using with the USL? This one? I wasn't sure if it would be deep enough. I've been searching for something more secure than the typical Mag loop, but haven't found much.

-Dave


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## brightnorm (Feb 18, 2006)

Unfortunately I don't know which Ripoffs it is. It's an old one which was about an inch too shallow for the USL so I cut out the bottom. looks kind of ugly but it works. I wish Ripoffs would label their holsters.

I have a Lightwave 3000 (3xC batts) and it is much smaller than the USL so I doubt if the displayed holster would fit. OTOH, the 4000 is similar in size to the USL, about 1/2" longer and any holster made for it should fit the USL, though the USL's head is about 3/8" wider.

Brightnorm


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## brightnorm (Feb 20, 2006)

Here's the Ripoffs CO-123 which is made for the Lightwave 4000. It should easily accommodate the USL's length but might not fully cover the larger diameter head, and looks too snug for the USL's switchguard.

http://www.ripoffs.com/datasheets/co123/co123.html

Brightnorm


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## bwaites (Feb 23, 2006)

I now have the first set of battery packs from js, and have begun the ritual of conditioning them.

This takes a while folks. 

I will condition about 10 packs, then build lights while I am conditioning the next 10 and so on. 

That allows me to really closely watch the packs after the condition/charge/discharge process and make sure they are in good shape, and that none have leaked.

I haven't yet pulled all 50 or so from their packaging, but the ones I have pulled so far look great!

Bill


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## andrewwynn (Feb 23, 2006)

nice to see seious progress.. i got a call from my buddy larryk who just got his USL a week ago or so. I would have to believe that 'worth the wait' still applies.. prepare to be spoiled, but warning.. your dim lights like mag85 are going to feel like their batteires are dead after using a USL for a while.


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2006)

Bill, hopefully, I haven't missed an update but I was wondering if you've had success with your Triton supplier?


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## bwaites (Mar 1, 2006)

The first shipment of Tritons was supposed to be here by yesterday, they didn't arrive, so I have sent an email to try to find them. One of the problems is that they won't drop ship straight to me, but ship to the dealer, then on to me. What a waste!!

I'm a little disappointed in the supplier, he was "Johnny on the spot" with my trial order last spring, but has not been anything like that with the full order.

Last I talked with him, the shipments were to come in split, but I will only pay shipping once. 

I know that he spends less time at his shop than he used to, and I'm getting the feeling that he thinks he is doing me some favor. 

If they don't show up by the time I am ready to ship the next set of USL's, I am going to cancel and find a new supplier. (I've already talked with one, but he wants about 5% more than the current dealer.) I'll do that if I have to, but I basically sold the Tritons at cost, so I really don't WANT to, and I will not go back to buyers and transfer the cost, so I'll eat it if necessary.

Nobody wants the USL's gone more than me!!

Jim and I have a cool light on the boards, that WE don't have to build ourselves, and I hope we can get on it soon.

On top of that, I have been considering a lathe, and will purchase one soon, but not until I have the space cleared that the USL's occupy. 

Bill


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## marcspar (Mar 1, 2006)

Thanks for the update, Bill. I will happily pay any increases you have in getting the tritons if you have go another route.

All the best,

Marc


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2006)

Same here, Bill, I would not dream of letting you pay any of the Triton's added cost. 5% is not a big deal in the scheme of things.


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 1, 2006)

Hi Bill and Ray...


I just sent a PM to Ray. "Bright Scouter" is now the owner of USL #74. Congratulations, Del! :thumbsup: 

The PM I sent to Ray had all of Bright Scouter`s info, and I`ve asked Bright Scouter to also contact you folks regarding the same.

When you get a chance, please update the "Paid List" to show that #74 is now destined to go to Bright Scouter.

Thanks!


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## bwaites (Mar 1, 2006)

Got it Carpe! Thanks!!

As for the Triton issues, there is NO WAY that anyone but me will pay that cost!! I've had your money too long as it is and I'm embarrassed at how long this has taken. I WON'T take this type of project on again, though we do plan on a new light after we have completed the USL and M6-R builds.

This has been an ongoing issue, and I THINK that he will come through in the end. I wish I had a couple more Tritons to condition cells right now, but I will get it ginned up and going here pretty soon.

As far as the difference, I can't ship USL's until I am comfortable with the packs, and I have some charging and will see how they hold up after repeated cycles. If I have no leaks, then I will build them into lights.

It is a major hassle to build them into lights and then have them leak and then have to pull them, so I want to get 10-15 packs fully charged and conditioned, then watch them for a week or so, recycle them and see what happens.

Bill


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## Bright Scouter (Mar 5, 2006)

Bill,

This has probably been asked before, but would another Triton help you out at all? I already have one for my RC cars. Since they don't play well in the snow, I have no need for it until spring. I would be more than happy to ship it off to you to help out the process. Let me know if that would halp.

Thanks for all the blood, sweat, and tears on this project!


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## bwaites (Mar 5, 2006)

Del,

Thanks for the offer, but the truth is I have a few left to ship to people who had either stock or no chargers and then I'm left with only the upgraded packages left and they all need Tritons.

Unfortunately, I had a friend pass away this past week and the end of the week was spent with his family and preparing for the funeral and so I haven't had a chance to talk with the Triton supplier. I plan on calling him tomorrow.

I have considered letting everyone condition their own cells, but with the leak problem, I don't think that's a good idea.

Once I get the first shipment, I can charge packs a little faster, but I still have to build the lights, and about 2-4 per evening is all I can do and then only when I have no other unavoidable committments.

The USL is my first priority, I hope to get them all out posthaste when I start getting Tritons, and I have even cut out two planned trips so I can finish them when the Tritons show up.

I have been conditioning cells, even with the funeral stuff going on, so that part hasn't slowed much.

I will hopefully get enough good packs this week to finish off all the non-Triton orders next weekend, build those and get them sent.

Bill


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## Bright Scouter (Mar 5, 2006)

Not a problem. I just figured if another Triton would help you condition the packs faster (and that was something you were interested in), I would ship it off to you. But it sounds like one more Triton to condition packs with is not really going to help you out much.


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## brightnorm (Mar 6, 2006)

bwaites said:


> ...*we do plan on a new light after we have completed the USL and M6-R builds*...


Dare I ask?

BTW, Fairly heavy use of USL since I received it. Perfect so far

Brightnorm


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## bwaites (Mar 6, 2006)

Small, bright, regulated.

Sound interesting?

Bill


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## Starlight (Mar 6, 2006)

I just looked it up, and today is my one year USL anniversary. And I didn't get a card or flowers from Bill. His wife needs to talk to him!


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## andrewwynn (Mar 6, 2006)

I have some neat news to share with the USL crowd.. 

Got to play first-hand with a USL.. we did some head-to-head shots with some of the 100W monsters that me and N.T. have come up with, including the 3000+L shots with a 4D LiON powered 64625 lamp.. 

Anyhow.. I just talked to the owner of the USL to see what he thought about it, and he's a pretty avid trader of lights.. for example.. he had the M6 for like a day before he resold it because it just wasn't his cup of tea.. so i was intrigued what he thought about the USL.. and his reply.. 

"I'm going to keep it, i like it".. simple and effective.. very cool. There is somethign very hard to decribe about the elegance of such a viable direct-drive solution in hotwire lights, i've said it before but my hat's off to the team that came up with the USL... how you did it without burning or melting something, i'm not quite sure. 

It'll definitely be worth the year long wait. 

-awr


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## bwaites (Mar 6, 2006)

Thanks Andrew!

Who said we did without burning or melting anything? 

I had 2 fingers that had no prints for months, I had several UCL's(tm) that ended up in pieces, I had lots of batteries that melted down, I had lots of switches that got permanently fused.

BUT...thanks to Jim, none of those faults ended up in the final prototypes.

Remember, the Mule and the FatMule came first, and so I had lots of experience with lamps and switches before we got to the USL prototypes, and Jim is a battery wizard, so it worked well pretty much from the get-go once we started working together. 

I laugh at where you guys have gone from wanting to build a cheap, home version of the USL! 

I love the Hotwire driver idea, and look forward to more real world applications. 

BUT...didn't you intend to build a USL on the cheap? Looks like you've got as much time in it as I do, and probably even more than my investment!!!:nana: 

Pretty tough to do, hunh?


Bill


----------



## andrewwynn (Mar 6, 2006)

Well. i should re-phrase.. 

Tom thought he could make a 'poor man's USL'.. which we did pull off.. 100W westinghouse lamp that could handle DD from 12AAs.. but it was yellow and sucky compared to the 138 lamp. 

glad to have some shared 'growing pains' experiences.. ouch on the burnt fingerprints.. did that once to myself with a hot pan from an oven once!

I burnt my neck last night on the 4D version of the Mag625.. the bezel was about 170F when it got to the point where the light was smarter than me.. i was freezing in the basement so i hugged the light to get warm, literally but got tooooo close with the bezel!

Thanks for paving some of the way so i had to just deal with FET and such.. hotdrivers are only $35 you might want one just for experimentation... i know i would... it's good up to about 30V in.. and the FET can deal with about 9W continuous and 30, but NOT 35W peak.. the growing pile of dead FETS set that limitation. 

-awr


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## brightnorm (Mar 6, 2006)

bwaites said:


> Small, bright, regulated.
> 
> 
> Sound interesting?
> ...


Why do I think that's all you're going to reveal on this subject for a while? I've been wondering what you can possibly do for an encore, especially since it's hard to imagine topping the USL in terms of lumens per volume/weight. Unless you developed a regulated USL retrofit, or went significantly smaller and less bright but still disproportionately stunning.

No point in guessing....I guess.

BN


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## bwaites (Mar 7, 2006)

Andrew,

I'm really and truly glad you have worked on the hotwire driver and pushed that envelope. I DO intend to get one, (actually several!) but I'm letting you fix all the bugs first! 

I'm also glad the USL inspired some more hotwire work, because with Ginseng off at school, Jim and I needed the additional support from others working on the "archaic" hotwire platforms!!!

A year ago there were threads about, "hotwires are dead" but for some reason they have all disappeared!

I'm glad YOU guys have been dealing with the FETs and such, I'm not good at it!! My fingers are too big, all that surface mount stuff just is too tough!!

Good luck!!

Bill


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## bwaites (Mar 7, 2006)

BrightNorm,

For now that's all, it will be so cool that I'm having a tough time staying focused on the USL's and getting them built. 

Bill


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## BVH (Mar 7, 2006)

OK, Bill, I'm on the preorder signup list as of this post!


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## Dynacolt (Mar 7, 2006)

BVH Said:


> OK, Bill, I'm on the preorder signup list as of this post!


I say:


> Me Too!!


(and the USL was going to be my last light as I stagger off to pour my pennies into the _other_ bottomless pit, Audio tweaks and upgrades)

But alas, the lure of the USL and the chance to have an Ultimate Showoff Light leads me blindly into sticking my hand up for another of Bill's lucky dip treats 

Dave.


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## bwaites (Mar 17, 2006)

I have just finished the preconditioning and conditioning of the first set of 10 packs of the welded, new, supply.

Unfortunately, it took twelve packs to get ten good ones.

That makes me very glad that I am going slow, since one of the two looked fine for nearly a week before venting. The second leaked off the charger at the 1.6 amp rate.

I now have 10 packs to put into lights, and those lights will be built this weekend if no disasters occur, and shipped next week. I am now preconditioning the next set for round 4 of the build.

These 10 will complete all the non-Triton orders, I think, and so the next batch will start with Tritons.

Tritons should arrive soon, after multiple delays. (I think the owner of the shop is going senile, takes my order, and then gets off the phone and gets distracted and forgets about it until I call him back, but he promises they are on their way to him.) 

Litho may hold the record for the longest group buy, but I am sure I have it for longest promised to delivery! THAT is not a record I wanted!!

Bill


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## lightlust (Mar 17, 2006)

Patience is a necessary ingredient of genius.
Benjamin, Earl of Beaconsfield Disraeli[size=-1] (1804–1881)
[/size]_Contarini Fleming, Part iv. Chap. v._​


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## andrewwynn (Mar 17, 2006)

I think i might have you beat bill, don't feel bad. I'm just glad it's not 'just me' where it keeps going and going.. i'll 'race you' to the finish (kidding of course).

I've seen the USL and i've built lights just as bright.. and i can say the fit n finish and the 'part of history' that is the USL is worth the time, and I know first-hand the effort, so not even being in the lineup to get one i still appreciate what it took to make it happen. 

-awr


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## Catman10 (Mar 17, 2006)

Recieved mine today. Now just trying to figure out how to charge it!


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## ddaadd (Mar 27, 2006)

Weekly bump activated.....T-10, 9, 8, 7.........

Enter key pressed......

We have BUMP............


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## fleshlite (Mar 29, 2006)

Hi Bill,
Any update on the batteries or the chargers?


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## bwaites (Mar 29, 2006)

I have 10 lights ready to ship. I am waiting for 1 week after a full run and charge to make sure that they are not going to leak.

I had 2 of twelve packs leak after the conditioning charge, so the soldering was not the culprit, at least not the ONLY culprit.

However, these 10 packs are holding charge very well and will go out no later than Saturday if they don't leak.

That will be the last of the non-Triton's and I will then wait until the majority of people have received and confirmed that there were no leaks before mailing any more.

I've discussed this with SilverFox at length, and he wonders if shipping by air and the pressure/temperature change might be a contributing factor, so I am going to ship these with a 50% charge only.

If there are no leaks, I will start shipping the premium lights about 7-10 days after that. 

I am charging the next 10 packs and should have them conditioned by mid week next week. 

The first set of Tritons are in the shop, and should arrive here before mid week next week. ( I have my fingers crossed after all the delays, but I REALLY don't want to ship the premium packages until I am convinced that the leak problem has been addressed fully.)

Bill


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## fleshlite (Mar 29, 2006)

Thanks for the update Bill, 
It has been a real bummer with those leaking cells. If you had to do this again what kind of power system / batteries would you have gone with? Is there in the pipe line a new innovation/ product that can provide this kind of power delivery and still be stable?

tks
Chris

PS I never did get to try this light out when I went to visit my Dad out in Sequim over the Sound. Maybe the next trip.


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## bwaites (Mar 29, 2006)

I think there are some interesting LiIon/LiPoly options that will be available soon. The cells in the 28v Milwaukee power tools can do it, so I am hoping they become available commercially soon.

The problem still remains that if you want a tiny package, and we tried to make it as small as possible to get the most impact from a tiny light, then you are really limited by the shapes you can use. 

The Mag won't take more than AA sized cell in groups of four. If you go fatter, which was my initial plan, using A cells of some type, you need more length. 

If you go larger in diameter, like the Fat Mule proto, you lose the stealth aspect.

It's all a tradeoff until we come up with a tiny cold fusion reactor or LiPoly's come in cylindrical shapes or LiIons can safely handle the draw AND have some decent runtime.

The new Eneloop cells MIGHT be an option too, but I'd like to see some repeated runs at high draws, like 8-10 amps. I'm sure SilverFox will pull it off soon.

For now, the next light will be totally different, will be regulated, and have LiIon cells in a easy to carry form factor. It won't be the mega output light the USL is, but will be more useable and run longer.

Bill


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## JimH (Mar 29, 2006)

I must have won the battery lotto. I've had my USL several months and have not observed any leakage. Of course I'm not sure what I'm looking for other than goop coming out of the back when I take the cap off to charge it.

On another note, I beg to differ with Bill.

Bill said "mega output light the USL is, but will be more useable"

I find the USL to be quite useful and useable for those special occasions requiring its special talents. It is definitely not the purely demonstration light I thought it was going to be.


----------



## tvodrd (Mar 29, 2006)

What the bozo in the post immediately above mine said! :nana:  I don't use mine regularly like Jim, but make a point to charge it every three weeks or so. It's still awsome! No leakage evident at my end, and I've had mine longer than Jim. Maybe I should do breakfast in the morning! 

Larry


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## bwaites (Mar 29, 2006)

Fortunately, I've only had 2 leak after they left, and with both I broke my "wait a week or 10 days" rule trying to get them out when promised.

I'm now sure it is a quality control issue, and that the seals just aren't up to snuff. They fail after a good hard run and then charge, and so that generally happens before I send them out. 

Unfortunately, it slows everything down, but like the wine maker, "I will ship no light before it's time!" 

I'm glad people are happy with them, and they do have some interesting uses, so I look forward to more stories!!!

Bill


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## DaveNagy (Mar 30, 2006)

Will you be able to return the bad cells for a refund? Do you have enough cells to complete the build at the current failure rate?


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## bwaites (Mar 30, 2006)

Cells that leak AFTER pack assembly are not returnable. I usually tear the packs down and build the remaining cells into Mag Mods like Mag85's, etc.

We've had some leak out of the box, and those, plus the ones that measure under 1V before charge are returnable.

We have already ordered extra cells to cover the bad ones and they should be delivered well before I run out of the 40 or so packs I have now.

Bill


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## Raindrop (Apr 3, 2006)

Any updates to the status on the Triton Chargers as well? It would be nice to know that when the rest of the cells can be built that we could get our lights instead of being penalized for upgrading to the Triton.


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## J_Oei (Apr 3, 2006)

Updates on a particular yellow USL?


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## J_Oei (Apr 3, 2006)

(server busy...)


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## J_Oei (Apr 4, 2006)

Updates on a particular yellow USL?


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## bwaites (Apr 4, 2006)

The first of the Tritons should be here midweek, as mentioned above in post #202.

There really is no penalty for ordering the Tritons, I can only build and charge so fast, though. The real limiting factor is getting the conditioning charge on the packs, then cycling them a few times to make sure they don't leak. It is a TOTAL PITA to have to pull a pack that has leaked after being installed!!!

J Oei, the yellow USL, like the rest of the NON switch guard USL's, will be in the last of the primary run of USL's. They require some special work to secure the switch in the body tightly, and I don't have any extra non switch guarded bodies. Each of them has to be perfect, so I want to take my time. 

Hope that helps everyone.

I have sent PM's or emails to the group of people who are up for shipment, and haven't heard from anyone in 3 days, I'm starting to wonder if they weren't received. I will resend later today or this evening if I don't start hearing from them.

Bill


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## paulr (Apr 4, 2006)

Bill, I thought you were using welded packs now that were built by some vendor? Would a bunch of Tritons let you charge and condition them in parallel?


----------



## bwaites (Apr 4, 2006)

paulr,

I am using welded packs, but even they have leaked, as documented on the last page.

About 1 out of 5 or 6 packs is leaking, leading us to believe that it really is a quality control issue with the cells, vs. the soldering process.

We have bought extra cells, so we should be OK.

As far as an extra Triton or two helping, yes, and I will keep one or two to condition cells, but I can build about 8-10 a week, assuming no problems.

Bill


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## nethiker (Apr 4, 2006)

Keep charging on Bill. 

Sounds like you are addressing the challenge of the questionable batteries well. I'm more concerned about receiving a great light that works than a questionable one more quickly. Since we are down to the last steps (conditioning of the packs and assembly), I guess there is not too much to report and thus we are left quietly waiting.

How about some pictures from those who already have them to wet the rest of our appetites? I assume there's more than a handful of USL's out there by now. Bill, how many are finished and out and how many are left to go? Just wondering.


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## bwaites (Apr 4, 2006)

There are about 20-25 out there, and about 50-60 left to go in the primary run.

10 more are ready and awaiting confirmation of mailing address and shipping fees.

Bill


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## MikeF (Apr 4, 2006)

I haven't posted here for a while, and I have been somewhat out of touch due to a recent heart attack. I was hoping for an update, and I planned on a BTT, when I saw all of today's activity in this thread. It is good to see that my USL is getting closer to completion!

Thanks Bill!!!


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## bwaites (Apr 4, 2006)

Mike, sorry to hear about the MI!!

If you haven't posted or been around, please check this thread and make sure I have current info by emailing me:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/105416&page=1&pp=30

Thanks!!!

Bill


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## MikeF (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks Bill, I sent an e-mail earlier, so you should have all of my info. I have been very aggressive about my recovery, and I am feeling great! I have lost more than 30 pounds and my Cholesterol has gone from 216 to 145.
I rattle when I walk, from all of the pills they have me on. :lolsign:


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## Codeman (Apr 4, 2006)

That's great news about your health improving. Keep it up! :rock:


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## bwaites (Apr 4, 2006)

Thanks Mike!!

Glad to hear it! 

Bill


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## bwaites (Apr 10, 2006)

Just a short note on my way out of town.

There are 10 USL's winging their way to various parts of the world.

I will be gone for a week on a trip, but I did not receive my Triton order and the shop isn't answering my calls or returning them. I have cancelled my order by email, and fortunately they have not charged my card. If they have not charged my card on my return, or if the Tritons aren't here, then option 2 below takes effect.

I will be talking to a second shop as soon as I return. They have emailed me and given me a price that is close to what the best price from the other shop was, and so I will probably place the order on my return, assuming there are not Tritons waiting on me.

See you soon.

Bill


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## ddaadd (Apr 10, 2006)

Hope your trip is an enjoyable one Bill !...

Since the Tritons seem to be a time consuming ( and possibly $ consuming ) item for you, I for one, would be very willing to acquire my own Triton. You could simply refund whatever dollar amount you had plugged in for the charger and I would be happy. Not being an original buyer, I don't feel you are obligated to provide me what I can easily get myself. My motive here is self serving I must admit, might get my hands on the USL a little sooner maybe??

:naughty:

Why didn't I think of this 2 months ago??



Why did I pick the Duratrax Ice over the Triton 8 months ago ??
( charges 10, not 11 cells )


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## bwaites (Apr 10, 2006)

The Ice has a very user friendly interface, from what I have heard, but I always advise people to look at the Triton because of the advantage of the number of cells.

You can charge TWO USL packs at a time!!

I think your idea has merit, but trying to get all the buyers compensated, and then keeping track of who did and who didn't would be a logistical nightmare!! Some of the buyers are pretty farflung and getting Tritons might be a hassle for them.

At this point, not having Tritons hasn't slowed anything down, and the second shop was much more helpful than the first, so I think we'll be ok. (The limiting factor is still conditioning cell packs and my time of assembly!)

Thanks!!

Bill


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## Bright Scouter (Apr 10, 2006)

Hope you have a good trip Bill. Try to forget all the problems for a while.

I understand wanting to keep the orders unchanged. But just know that if you ever do want to send out any USL without a charger, I would also be on the list of buyers that would be willing to go without. I already own one. But since I bought a slot, I took what was originally ordered.

Just trying to give options if you ever get caught up on builds but don't get the Tritions.

Del


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## bwaites (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm back and I've only had 1 of the 10 lights I sent out confirmed as received.

I'm a little worried by that, as the stateside recipients should have had their's no later than Thursday.

The one received was in Japan.

Bill


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## garsea (Apr 16, 2006)

I have not yet received mine. I will let you know as soon as I get it though. Hope you had a nice trip. 
Cheers, Gary.


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## ddaadd (Apr 24, 2006)

bwaites said:


> I'm back and I've only had 1 of the 10 lights I sent out confirmed as received.
> 
> I'm a little worried by that, as the stateside recipients should have had their's no later than Thursday.
> 
> ...



Hoping to hear the good news.....


----------



## Raindrop (Apr 24, 2006)

bwaites said:


> Just a short note on my way out of town.
> 
> There are 10 USL's winging their way to various parts of the world.
> 
> ...




Bill,

Can we get some form of confirmation that the SECOND SHOP can in fact deliver the Tritons and what the anticipated arrival date would be??

~Greg


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## bwaites (Apr 24, 2006)

The second shop has promised delivery of 15-30 Tritons within 21 days, and they actually THINK I'll get them by late next week or early the week after. They think that after that first shipment, they can continue to get me 15-20 every 2 weeks, which is probably as fast or faster than I can build them. 

Once I get the first shipment, which is the only way I will actually believe they will do it, I'll post here.

They also can't have them drop shipped to me, they have to get them, then send them on. I'm finding that no shops have ever ordered this many in one shipment, so they aren't sure how long it will take to get them in. I've been met with stunned silence when I say I want to order 60-80 Tritons, so I guess it's a little weird. 

I am finishing the conditioning of the next set of batteries, and so far, for the first time ever, I've had no leaks. The packs all are holding voltage very nicely as well.

It looks like everything is ready to go, at last!!! I'll have lights ready to go when the Tritons come in hopefully, and then we'll be ready to rock.

I'm still a little worried about the last shipment, because only 5 of the 10 have checked in now. I didn't expect the Aussie's to have replied yet, but, 3 guys in the states haven't said anything!

I've emailed them, but so far, no replies.

Bill


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## Dynacolt (Apr 25, 2006)

Hi Bill,
It sounds like things are progressing well now, fingers crossed the Tritons come through!
I figure the Aussie lights could be in Customs surrounded by Customs agents, drug sniffer dogs and the bomb disposal unit with the chief saying "What the heck do we have here?" And one guy pipes up from the back going "Hooray! my USL has arrived."
The US lights, well... Could be the recipients are unable to reply due to a significantly reduced capacity to see what they are typing after taking on the dare "betcha can't look in the beam for 3 seconds!"

Hope it's all smooth sailing from here,

Dave.


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## bwaites (May 1, 2006)

Well,

No more of the buyers of the last shipment have checked in, so either they didn't get their lights, or they are working so well that they are all out playing with them and are giggling too hard to care!

I've emailed or PM'd them all, so I'll assume the latter, since they knew they were coming.

I have 10 more packs conditioned and just about ready to go into bodies. I had hoped that I would get some feedback about the new packs, but since I haven't heard complaints, I have to assume all is well.

If all these packs undergo a full run discharge/charge cycle without leaks, then they'll be ready by the end of the week. 

Tritons will be arriving anytime, with the shop telling me they have been shipped to them and they will repackage and ship the first twenty on to me.

Bill


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## Codeman (May 1, 2006)

Bill,

Do you have an ETA on the thermal probes?


----------



## bwaites (May 1, 2006)

There should be some with the Tritons. 

I ordered 20. I just went and visited face to face with this dealer of Friday, and he seemed on the up and up. VERY nice, very nice shop, but a little wary of my order for 60 Tritons!

He had been completely surprised, as I said before, when I asked for 60-80, but once he met me he told me he felt more comfortable. He called a couple shops he is associated with, and no one had ever ordered more than 10 Tritons at one time, so he wasn't absolutely sure that he could get 60 at a time, then when we talked, I assured him that 20 every 2 weeks or so would be fine. 

I'm feeling much better about this now, and think I will actually have a bulk shipment of Tritons soon!

I did ask about the Thermal probes, and how many people use them, and he told me they sell one probe for every 5-10 Tritons. I'm not sure exactly what that means as far as we are concerned but he was surprised I wanted to order so many of them. 

I did pick up the one he had, (I've never used one) and I'm going to have to change the way I am fixing the packs, (I think) if people plan on using them with the USL. I haven't had a chance to play with it, though, as I was gone on a service project/campout Friday night and Saturday, so we'll see.

Bill


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## Codeman (May 1, 2006)

Cool beans.


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## ddaadd (May 3, 2006)

bwaites said:


> he told me he felt more comfortable.
> 
> I'm feeling much better about this now,
> 
> Bill




and likewise....

Thanks Bill, that was a nice update.....:goodjob:


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## Codeman (May 10, 2006)

If anyone wants a chance at a USL on the cheap, go over to EDC Forums for an upcoming raffle. The USL is being donated by JonSidneyB and the raffle is to benefit LifeNRA.


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## bwaites (May 10, 2006)

If I can get free, I will be picking up the Tritons the middle of next week, but certainly by the end of the week.

I have almost a dozen lights ready for final assembly and shipping, but I am holding off until I get a USL back that has a leaky cell. I want to check where in the pack it is. If it is one of the two that I have to solder leads to, I will be changing the way I do that.

If it is simply a midpack cell, que sera, sera! I'll replace the pack and off we go again!

Bill


----------



## Dynacolt (May 11, 2006)

Hi Bill,
What are the usual signs of a leaking or venting cell (just so I know if it ever happens once I get my USL).
Thanks,

Dave.


----------



## bwaites (May 11, 2006)

Dynacolt,

It's pretty obvious as runtime drops and there is electrolyte inside the light, usually on the tailcap.

Bill


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## cmacclel (May 11, 2006)

Bill I purchased 30+ cells of the CBP1650's and 3-4 of them leaked. I make sure I cycle the cells 5+ times before even considering using them. Thats why my next lights are using the new IB1400's they test out around the same capacity of the CBP1650's.


Mac


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## bwaites (May 11, 2006)

I now cycle them at least 5 times, but the pack that went out had been cycled that way, too, so I want to make sure it wasn't the end I soldered to that cause the problem.

There is definitely a problem with quality control on the seal on the 1650's.

Bill


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## DaveNagy (May 12, 2006)

Bill, there's a chance that I'll be needing a Triton charger prior to my USL being finished. (My light is an original-spec USL with no switch guard, which if I understand correctly, booted me to the end of the line.) Would either of these options be convenient for you?
Ship my Triton to me as soon as you send out the first batch to other USL owners. Or...
Refund my Triton purchase, and I will procure one on my own.
No great hurry on either option. 

-Dave


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## bwaites (May 12, 2006)

I tore down the light sent back to me last night and it has several bad cells, all beneath the welded tabs.

The issue is definitely now at the factory, and I'm not going to worry about it anymore. If a pack goes bad in a reasonable time, I'll replace it. If it's longer, I'll still replace it, but may request you pay for, and choose, the cells. I've heard good things about the IB1400's.

Bill


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## Catdaddy (May 15, 2006)

I have been out of town and off the net for a month. Please let me know if my light was sent, is going to ship soon, or is lost, etc. I just want to know where I stand.

Thanks you so much,
John


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## bwaites (May 15, 2006)

Catdaddy,

You need to clear some PM space! Attempted PM returned.

Bill


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## Raindrop (May 15, 2006)

Catdaddy said:


> I have been out of town and off the net for a month. Please let me know if my light was sent, is going to ship soon, or is lost, etc. I just want to know where I stand.
> 
> Thanks you so much,
> John




That would be REALLY COOL if your light was anywhere close to being shipped since you are # 66 on the list and I am #5 I might actually see my light soon


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## bwaites (May 15, 2006)

Raindrop,

Yours is built, I'm running some discharge cycles on it, to make sure there are no leaks.

Once I've run 3 or 4 cycles, and I've picked up the Tritons, (it's a 150 mile round trip), then I will ship it with the first batch. I've got about 15-18 in various stages of assembly and charge right now. They will all ship by the end of next week, some will ship this week, I expect, but I need the weekend to get enough cycles on most of them. 

We just found out this AM that my wife's grandmother passed away and so we're trying to get arrangements to travel to Utah for her funeral squared away. It was expected, and is a blessing as she had many medical problems and had been ready for some time, but the timing is always tough, and you can't plan until it does happen. 

Bill


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## Codeman (May 15, 2006)

bwaites said:


> Raindrop,
> 
> Yours is built, I'm running some discharge cycles on it, to make sure there are no leaks.
> 
> ...



My thoughts are with J and yourself, Bill.


----------



## Raindrop (May 16, 2006)

Bill,

Sorry to hear about your families loss, but it seems that it was not an unexpected event. At least the weather here in Utah is nice ( other than being hotter than normal for this time of year). IF your destination is SLC and there is anything I can do to help please let me know.


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## bwaites (May 16, 2006)

Thanks Guys!!

Looks like the funeral will be in Ogden. Either Friday or Saturday. 

When it is may make a difference about if I go or not, but the as long as the majority of her family can get there, that is more important than me being there. My boss is out of town, so me going at all is iffy, but I have to help with the plans and help with Julie's business since this is her busy time and she has orders that have to be done before she leaves.

Thanks again!!

Bill


----------



## karlthev (May 16, 2006)

Sorry to hear of your loss....


Karl


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## ddaadd (May 29, 2006)

I have found the best way to keep occupied while awaiting the USL, 

is to buy more lights!....:lolsign:

Been working good so far, he he.......


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## ddaadd (May 29, 2006)

Jeez. my first Dupe Post!


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## bwaites (May 29, 2006)

OK, 

Time for an update.

Lights are essentially ready to ship, battery packs are fit, and tested. I had two more packs go bad between the testing and the actual fit. So of this batch of 15, a total of 4 were bad. 

That doesn't make me happy, but these all leaked before ANY soldering was done, so it definitely is a QC issue and is not related to soldering, as I mentioned I thought was the case above.

The Tritons continue to be an issue. The shop I ordered them from found that there were only 4 in the West Coast Warehouse, and so held the order to keep me from paying shipping twice. In the interim, I found a nearer dealer, so I won't have to make the drive to pick them up. He met the same price point, and has the order sent, he thinks they will be here this week. We'll see. After spending about an hour talking with him, he called around, and NO ONE he could find had ever ordered 20 at a time, so evidently they don't sell as many as we all thought.

He has my money, so hopefully he will follow through. The order is gone, and supposedly they are in the warehouse and will go out tomorrow.

Some of you are very close!

Bill


----------



## Trashman (May 29, 2006)

All the lights are essentially ready to ship, or just the batch you've been working on?


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## bwaites (May 29, 2006)

The batch I'm working on.

The rest are essentially ready, minus having the packs conditioned and installed.

The pack conditioning is by far the most time consuming portion, but has to be done before the packs can be installed, since about 25% of the packs have bad cells in them. I condition the packs, which takes a total of 5 charge/discharge cycles over about a week, then let them sit for about 2-3 weeks to see if any develop leaks. That seems to weed out the vast majority of the problem packs.

I'll have some extra Tritons with this first shipment, and that will speed the process a lot.

Bill


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## Trashman (May 29, 2006)

Thanks for the update. I'm still not in any hurry, so keep being thorough! Thanks, for all your cheap, hard work, too! It's almost as if we're taking advantage of a third world laborer, as you've got to be doing this for pennies by now.


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## BVH (May 30, 2006)

Bill, are us guardless buyers a couple of months out?


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## bwaites (May 30, 2006)

BVH,

Boy, I sure hope not!!!

I'm hoping that all of the regular lights are done by the end of June and the rest shortly thereafter.

I want this done, as I have two major opportunities on hold until they are and I really want to get my life back to normal!!

Bill


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## xpitxbullx (May 30, 2006)

Bill,

I've been so busy, I haven't had the time to ship back mine for battery leakage. I'll be doing that soon.

Jeff


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## bwaites (May 30, 2006)

Jeff, I figured as much, let me know before you send it!

Bill


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## bwaites (Jun 2, 2006)

I'm almost hesitant to post this, since everything about the Tritons seems to go wrong anytime I talk about it, but you guys have been so patient and good to me you need to know the whole scoop! 

I went to see the dealer to pick up the Tritons and they weren't in. He didn't know why so we went into his office and he pulled up the info. This showed only 4 TOTAL in the system!! His order was never processed, and we never did figure out what happened there. 

However, TowerHobbies has just lowered their price on the Triton, lower than the lowest advertised price was last week!!

So we got on the phone, and lo and behold, they DO have them in stock, but they are not showing them on their dealer web site. However, they have been discontinued and when they sell out, they are sold out forever!

They have more than enough to cover our order plus, so the TOTAL order will go in next week and we canceled the order for the 20 I had previously ordered. 

I could have ordered all of them today, but since there is only going to be one chance to order, I wanted to MAKE SURE I had the right number. 

So, there we are. I will have WAY to many Tritons at my house, but I'll deal with it. 

Since I'll have so many, and I have permission from so many buyers to use theirs to help with the battery conditioning, I should be able to get that done a little faster than I had planned. This should speed the finish build up some, but I'll still be limited by how many I can assemble.

Hope that helps!

Bill


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## garsea (Jun 3, 2006)

I may be able to take one of the Tritons off your hands once they are in and you find out how many you have left over. 

Cheers, Gary.


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## Fat_Tony (Jun 3, 2006)

bwaites said:


> However, they have been discontinued and when they sell out, they are sold out forever!



Hi Bill. Please forgive me if I am being dense, but I am curious about what the above quote of yours means, exactly. Did the company that previously manufactured the Tritons go out of business, did they simply stop making these chargers, or are they going to bring out a 'New and Improved' version? If either of my latter 2 suppositions proves to be the case, do you know if it would still be possible to have our charger serviced in the future, if something goes awry? Anyway that you look at it, this is certainly an interesting development. (As an aside, are you starting to feel like a babysitter yet, with all of the handholding that you have to do?  If you give me a lollipop, I'll shut up for a couple of hours, I promise!!  ).


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## bwaites (Jun 3, 2006)

Joe,

I have NO idea!! Both the dealer and I were completely blown away when they told us that. They were not forthcoming about the future, either. From what I can tell the Triton is a proprietary charger built for Great Planes, and they simply are not going to have more built.

My suspicion is that there is a better/newer/more expensive charger coming. The Triton has been at or near the top of the heap for at least 3 years when it comes to the RC chargers, so it is about time for a revolution. Great Planes has a pretty good rep for honoring their warrantees, so I don't foresee a problem there. 

My dealer was a little hot that they were advertising them at the lower price without notifying the dealers, though!! 

As for the handholding, I must have gotten the absolute BEST buyers for any build ever, because I haven't had any real complaints from anyone and this is only taking about a year longer than I thought it would!! I have been SO frustrated with the batteries and chargers that I know all of you must be!!! 

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the patience and understanding everyone has shown!!!

Bill


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## BVH (Jun 3, 2006)

Bill, I think quite simply that you communicate very well with all of us and all of us know exactly what's happening with this GB. No guesswork, no unknowns. All of us know you are doing every possible thing you can to get us our lights - but not at the risk of putting out a less than stellar product. Thank you for everything you've done for us!


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## Dynacolt (Jun 4, 2006)

BVH wrote:


> Bill, I think quite simply that you communicate very well with all of us and all of us know exactly what's happening with this GB. No guesswork, no unknowns.


Ditto, Ditto and Ditto to BVH.
We have been eager voyeurs on Bill's (and others involved) long journey with this light and, with light in hand, I'm sure I for one will miss the regular updates and installments to the saga.

Dave.


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## nethiker (Jun 13, 2006)

Bill, were you able to get the Triton's ordered from TowerHobbies? Just dreaming about my USL and thought I'd check in.


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## fleshlite (Jun 13, 2006)

Bill , 
How about letting us know who's on the next batch that will be getting their USL. If you could group the batches into a rough time line we could have a better idea when we might see this great achievement of yours.


tks 
chris


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## Knight Lights (Jun 13, 2006)

wrong place!


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## bwaites (Jun 13, 2006)

The first 25-30 Triton lights are essentially done and pending receipt of the Tritons. (I'm still running battery tests while I wait for the Tritons, trying to make sure there are no more leaks in the lights.)

The dealer has promised to call when he gets shipping confirmation.

If I can get home at a reasonable hour, I will go through and post who's lights will be shipped in what order, but if you go to the sales thread and count down the number of USL's to about #25 or so, those lights are nearly ready.

Bill


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## Data (Jun 13, 2006)

Oh boy, campfire season is upon us and I will be lighting the fires! :goodjob:


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## karlthev (Jun 13, 2006)

Karl


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## ddaadd (Jun 13, 2006)

bwaites said:


> If I can get home at a reasonable hour, I will go through and post who's lights will be shipped in what order, but if you go to the sales thread and count down the number of USL's to about #25 or so, those lights are nearly ready.
> 
> Bill




Uhh, umm, wouldn't that be count down the # of upgraded chargers?

As all non-Triton packages were sent sometime ago....

Me thinks I'm on the other side of the bubble......:lolsign:


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## bwaites (Jun 13, 2006)

ddadd is correct, thank you!!

I'm running my tail off at work this week, and have multiple other medical commitments.

I'm just trying to keep up the pace with the USL's.

Bill


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## chasm22 (Jun 14, 2006)

bwaites said:


> The first 25-30 Triton lights are essentially done and pending receipt of the Tritons. (I'm still running battery tests while I wait for the Tritons, trying to make sure there are no more leaks in the lights.)
> 
> The dealer has promised to call when he gets shipping confirmation.
> 
> ...



Bill,

It's been quite a while, but IIRC you stated early on that the lights would ship in the order of who paid first, not who signed on first. Is this still going to hold true? After this much time, it's no big deal but I think that was the original plan.

Chuck


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## bwaites (Jun 14, 2006)

To the best of my knowledge, Codeman designed the list based upon when people paid, although that got a little confusing with the Paypal debacle, I think it is a close to correct as we can make it.

CORRECTION: Codeman tells me that the list is not arranged by payment date. I'm not sure why I didn't notice that before, I will try to ship as close to that as possible, and we will make an effort to do so, but please remember that the PP fiasco muddied the waters a lot. 

If you think you should be in that first group please let me know if it is important to you.

Bill


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## mst3k (Jun 22, 2006)




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## Raindrop (Jun 23, 2006)

Any updates as to anticipated shipping times, or are the Triton chargers still just vaporware?


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## mst3k (Jun 24, 2006)

I guess I understand why the lights themselves are taking so long, but what I don't understand is why the tritons weren't ordered after our money was received, well over a year ago??? Why is this just now an issue???

As I recall, we were asked for an OK to use our tritons a long long time ago as conditioning units for the battery packs. So......................................


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## bwaites (Jun 24, 2006)

I'm sorry guys, I missed this, it's my anniversary weekend and I didn't see this the few minutes I got close to a computer yesterday. I've been out of town and will be leaving again in the morning and will be around only for part of Monday before leaving again through Wednesday.

As documented at some length previously, I have ordered the chargers from 3 different dealers, dating back to last spring, only to have them fall through the gaps and not follow through on my order. 

One of those orders was supposed to have been delivered right before my home was burglarized, so I was actually glad they weren't here! 

As I have explained before, I didn't want 50-60 high dollar chargers sitting around doing nothing. When we were burglarized, they got to all the power supplies, but they must have decided they were too heavy and left them, The Tritons would have been easy pickings, though, as they weigh less than 2 pounds each, with the box and all the packaging.

I am now dealing with a guy who appears to be pretty standup, but he was supposed to call me this past week with the status when he found out when they were shipped and didn't do so.

I will try to contact him tomorrow, before I leave town, but will definitely see him before the end of the week.

I will be posting here once I know something else. 

Bill


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## BVH (Jun 28, 2006)

Bill, if the Triton's have become vaporware, I for one, would rather look into paying additional for an equal or better charger (Triton replacement?) rather than going with something less.


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## karlthev (Jun 28, 2006)

I agree with BVH.


Karl


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## Raindrop (Jun 28, 2006)

Have to concur regarding another charger. You posted three weeks ago that the chargers had been found through your "new" supplier and they were in stock and inbound. If this guy has flaked as well and we have to pay more I am all for doing it. I am sure you want to close this out as much as we would like to get our lights at this point. I guess I find it more troubling that people have had USL's using the other charger long enough that they have already reentered the B/S/T and changed hands without ever getting my hands on my light. That and the fact that I have to keep going over to my brother in-laws to get my M6R pack recharged


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## marcspar (Jun 29, 2006)

Any news, Bill?

Thanks,

Marc


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## nethiker (Jun 29, 2006)

I'm willing to make any concessions that will help. I could find my own charger if that's the issue. Let me know if I can do anything to grease the wheels.


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## bwaites (Jun 30, 2006)

Wow, this forum has so many messages I almost missed this again.

OK, lots of news.

The Tritons, at least the first 30 or so, are on their way. I spoke with the dealer by telephone as he was closing shop for the weekend/holiday. He thinks they will arrive late next week.

There are *2* new Tritons coming this fall, thus the discounts some dealers are showing. They both have a some changes though the new Triton2 is essentially similar with a few new bells and whistles. There is a SUBSTANTIALLY more expensive Triton coming too, something that will compete with the German chargers. 

This first shipment, for which he had no good reason to not have yet, (his admission) will handle almost all the packs I have ready currently, maybe all if more have leaked.

I'm more comfortable now that I know there is a replacement that is essentially just a small upgrade, because it means that I can still do this for the original cost, worst case. 

That said, I have heard rumors of, and been trying to track down and confirm a new cell that has been talked about off and on for a while. I now have confirmation it exists, and the cells are being tested here in the States. I'm waiting to see how these latest USL packs do, before ordering more cells. (Not field use, but conditioning and charging.) The 1650's are available, but the new cell, which I have not seen but have talked with one of the testers about, will have slightly more capacity and less chance of leakage. If they hold up to the testing, they will be available shortly, (I don't yet have confirmation on a date.) and will solve the leak problem.

I also now believe that the "recipe" was changed from the green 1650's to the Flag 1650's. The postive end of the cell appears to have been changed in quality, probably causing the leak problems. 

At this point, I am losing 1 of every 4-5 packs, not an acceptable rate in my book. They way I am charging and testing them seems to be catching them before they are sent out with a single exception, but it's pretty much a $30-40 loss each time at the price CBP wants for new cells. 

Once again, if someone HAS TO HAVE your light right away, I'll stand behind everyone of them, but I'm excited about these new cells, and hope that the end of the run can be built with them. 

Then, if someone has problems, the new cells will go in their packs.

AS SOON AS I HAVE TRITONS, LIGHTS WILL GO IN THE MAIL AND I WILL POST HERE.

Bill


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## karlthev (Jun 30, 2006)

Well, I sure did want my USL six months ago but...but, it's clearly more prudent to be patient and let the pieces go together without "forcing" them! I'm patient and I'll just have to be happy and wait!  Thanks for the update!!


Karl


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## naromtap (Jun 30, 2006)

Thanks for the detailed update Bill!


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## BVH (Jun 30, 2006)

Bill, I'd be interested in the substantially more expensive Triton and am one of the last lights you will send out (guardless). As soon as you know something, will you be able to post a link to or post more info on features and additional costs?

I'm also fine with waiting for the new cells if and when you're satisfied with them.


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## Bright Scouter (Jul 1, 2006)

I am all for waiting for the better batteries. I would even be ok with waiting for another gen of charger if the batch on order never come. In other words, I'm easy!


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## bwaites (Jul 1, 2006)

The available info on the new charger is subject to change, but available here:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMAJ1&P=7

I will continue on as I can, and if we need to make adjustments in the desired chargers as we go, maybe we can make swaps along the way.

Bill


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## nethiker (Jul 1, 2006)

I would consider upgrading the charger if that was an option and the features warrented more than twice the money. I'm not savy enough about chargers to competantly compare the two. Is there added safety with the new one? Is it more idiot resistant? Perhaps someone here could highlight the benefits of the new version as it relates to our hobby. Of course, if we have enough older chargers comming I'm happy to leave well enough alone.


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## Knight Lights (Jul 1, 2006)

oops! wrong thread!


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## bwaites (Jul 1, 2006)

js was pretty excited by the options when I read them to him. He is better equipped to tell us if this charger is worth the difference, hopefully he'll see this and respond.

Remember, though, this is preliminary info!

Bill


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## js (Jul 1, 2006)

Hey everyone,

I don't know why Bill thinks that I'm any more qualified than he is to speak on this subject, but FWIW, here are my thoughts:

First, the Triton (first gen model) is one heck of a charger by any standards. Many say that the Schulze isl 6-330 is a better charger. But that really all depends. For example, if you want to discharge and cycle, the Triton has the advantage of being able to disipate 20 watts. This is significantly more than the Schulze (doesn't have a fan), although I can't remember just what the 6-330 will handle. Also, the same better heat sinking ability of the Triton allows for higher charge currents of low cell count packs (1 or 2 or 3, etc.), because both of them need to drop the voltage difference between the 12V supply and the charging voltage across the pack. So if you are only charging one cell, we're talking like 10+ volts. That will limit you to something like 2 amps on the Triton, and something like 1 (or even less) on the Schulze. In addition, the Triton is (I suspect) a lot easier to operate, and has a nicer, larger LCD. The schulze, though, has two outputs, and it's auto mode actually works well, whereas on the Triton, it's pretty much a joke. Plus the schulze can be had with a computer interface. Oh, and all the schulze chargers can have their firm-ware upgraded. For example, if you bought a 6-330 back before Li-ion, all you needed to do to get that capability was to buy the new firmware upgrade for a nominal fee.

But, I digress. The schulze may be a better charger for some, but just remember that the regular "old" Triton is still a kick a** charger.

Moving on, . . . . the Triton ZX (or whatever they're calling it). OK. Let's see. More of the same, only more of it (didn't I just say that?), and better. Higher charging currents. Higher cell count packs able to be charged. etc.

Here are the big improvements:

1. Better display! Color. Graphs. Larger size. More info. Sexy looking (well, OK, we haven't seen it yet. Maybe not). And so on. This doesn't mean it charges any better, but it's sure nice to be able to see more of what's going on, in a more immediately digestible format.

2. Two outputs. This allows RC people to charge their flight packs on the main output, and a transmitter pack on the secondary output at the same time. But for flashlight people this may or may not be all that useful. The 2nd output can only charge up to 8 cell Ni packs, for instance.

3. Higher power disipation. A stunning *50 watts* of heat sinking is available. This is more than double what the current Triton can do (20 watts). And this is HALF of what the West Mountain Radio CBA thingy can do (100 watts), which is pretty darned impressive. This is probably the most exciting improvement for me and my needs.

4. Higher Li chemistry cell count charging ability. 1-10 cell Li-ion packs, vs. 1-4 cell for the current Triton. This is a big increase in cell count if you have Li-ion packs, and could mean a lot to certain users.

5. Higher charging current capability. up to 10 amps, vs. the 5 amps of the current Triton.

6. Computer interface so you can keep neat info on your hard drive instead of having to write it down in a notebook. That's cool, I guess.

So there it is.

Is it worth it?

Well . . . I can tell you that I'm going to buy this when it comes out, pretty much for sure. But that doesn't mean that you all need to pay twice what a Triton now will cost you. The regular old Triton is *MORE* than capable of charging a USL pack, and probably most any other pack you are likely to need to charge. Most people probably would be better off saving the $120+ and getting extra 123's or another light, or three months of phone service, rather than get a charger whose capabilities they will never really use.

We all tend to be gadget people, you know. But that can be just plain STUPID. Here's an example. There's someone (I kid you not) who bought an M6-R setup from me many months ago. He tried it out for a few minutes when he got it, then put the pack on the shelf and didn't touch it again for about half a year. Then when he tried to charge it on the Hitec, the Hitec wouldn't do it--because the voltage had fallen too low. And this person STILL hasn't sent the pack back to me for revival.

I can't help but think that he would have been better off putting the $200 or so towards 123 primary cells. Those will sit around just fine. Why did he need an M6-R? Because from where I'm looking at things, I'd say he DIDN'T need an M6-R. (Can you tell I'm peevish about this sort of thing--something about spending hours and hours making a fine piece of mod work that *ahem* sits around doing nothing. Yeah, something about that just rubs me the wrong way).

So, guys, you have to ask yourselves why you want a Triton ZX (if you do), because you probably won't use its extra capabilities over the current Triton.

Plus, does anyone really think it will be ready to ship by late August? I don't. I mean, I hope so, but I doubt it.

OK. Hope that was helpful


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## Codeman (Jul 1, 2006)

Thanks for the great summary, Jim. Being a very seriously afflicted gadget junky, I'm likely to get one, just to watch the display. The pc interface sounds like fun to me as well. So, yeah, I won't need the extra features, but it also sounds like the display and pc interface might allow those of us who don't understand battery behavior as well as the guru's to learn a bit.


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## nethiker (Jul 2, 2006)

Thanks Jim, that was a great review. Now I know that why I want it has nothing to do with whether I need it or not.


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## js (Jul 2, 2006)

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to knock being a gadget person! I'm more or less a gadget kind of guy. I was only saying that it CAN be stupid. It's great if you get enjoyment out of your gadgets, whether or not you really use them to their full potential. No arguments there. I like to have the best tools and gadgets I can get, whether or not I really *need* them, because I have found that it's better to err on that side of things, than to find that you actually needed a better rig than you got, and to have wasted the money spent on the cheaper thing.

I definitely am not against gadget-geekness.

However, it pays to be smart about these things. That way you can use your gadget funds to their best advantage.  And for most people, the current Triton that is being sold for $90 is one heck of a gadget at one heck of a price. I get a quantum jolt of pleasure every single time I see my Triton and Cosel power supply sitting on my work bench. Just like my Hakko soldering station pleases me every time I see or use it. But it's true that the Metcal station is better, and its true that the Schulze chameleon charger is better than the Triton. All true. But I'd rather have a Sebenza, Hakko, and Triton, than the top of the line schulze all by itself.

Anyway, point is, I wasn't trying to denigrate gadget-dom, or say that people shouldn't buy the Triton ZX. Just that the Triton 1 for $90 is a really, *really* awesome deal, and well worth considering. I paid like $140 for mine, and thought it was a really good deal.


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## ddaadd (Jul 2, 2006)

nethiker said:


> why I want it has nothing to do with whether I need it or not.




Now I can show the wife I'm not the only one who thinks like this,
Thank You Sir !!............


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## paulr (Jul 3, 2006)

The Triton ZX sounds great, fixes all the bugs of the initial Triton, has a computer interface, and (with luck) can double as an analyzer, replacing the CBA II and its proprietary software. I'm pretty psyched by it and have some interest in upgrading my Triton 1 to a ZX. But I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of a fairly hardcore computer geek. I guess it's not for everyone.

What I really want is a multi-channel AA NiMH charger with a similar level of computer controllability, sigh.


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## DaveNagy (Jul 7, 2006)

bwaites said:


> The Tritons, at least the first 30 or so, are on their way. I spoke with the dealer by telephone as he was closing shop for the weekend/holiday. He thinks they will arrive late next week.



So, did they arrive? Any news?


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## Knight Lights (Jul 8, 2006)

oops, see next post.


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## bwaites (Jul 8, 2006)

I stopped at the shop today, it's open, he's still gone on vacation.

They hadn't arrived, but UPS hadn't arrived when I was there.

I'll check back Monday.

Bill
___


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## mst3k (Jul 8, 2006)

I always feel like a wiener when I post in this thread, I don't mean to be, but this is kinda like sitting outside at a popular restaurant, beeper in hand, you are starving to death, you just want to know where you are on the list, and how long of a wait there still is.


So, Bill, is it asking too much to request that you or someone post a list showing who has already received their orders and where the rest of us stand on the list? I really think this would help alleviate some of the concerns folks here have. One thing I will give this group of purchasers, they definitely learned that "Patience is a virtue" lessson really well!  


Patiently waiting.


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## bwaites (Jul 11, 2006)

I talked to the dealer last night, and the shipment is on order.

It was after the help desk was closed, (midwest hours) so he couldn't get a tracking number, but it is coming ground, so that might be part of the holdup. 

They didn't ship from the west coast warehouse, which is where most of his stuff comes from, so it will take several days longer. 

I am glad they are on the way anyway!!

Bill


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## bwaites (Jul 11, 2006)

I will be posting a list, as requested, of the shipped lights, and the order of shipment, in the next couple of days.

Bill


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## mst3k (Jul 11, 2006)

Excellent Smithers!


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## xpitxbullx (Jul 11, 2006)

Bill,

You ready for me to ship my light to you?

Jeff


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## bwaites (Jul 11, 2006)

Jeff,

Any time!

Bill


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## fleshlite (Jul 17, 2006)

Bill, any news on the chargers? and list ??


tks 
chris


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## bwaites (Jul 18, 2006)

I'm having some computer issues, in the middle of a forced changeover due to some problems with another home computer. I'll have the list done this week.

I was crazy busy today at work and didn't get off until the shop had closed. I'll check tomorrow at lunch.

Bill


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## js (Jul 18, 2006)

Bill,

As I recall, you've had computer issues before, yes? Bout time to get a Mac if you ask me.  Hehe.


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## xpitxbullx (Jul 18, 2006)

Bill,

Are you ready for me to ship you my USL for battery pack repair?

Jeff


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## Knight Lights (Jul 18, 2006)

Dangit!! Wrong place!

Bill


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## bwaites (Jul 18, 2006)

eff, I replied above also, but any time!!

js, yeah, so what!!

No, actually, my wifes system was more than 3 years old and bought long before she was willing to go to digital for her photography. She's been incredibly busy this month, and managed to just about crash her system by overloading her little hard drive.

Fortunately, she asked me why it was so slow, and before she crashed I was able to catch it and download a whole bunch of PhotoShop stuff. Because she had back to back weddings, she didn't have time for me to build her a new system from scratch, so I broke my system down and built her a new unit from my components, leaving me with her old Dell until I can get parts to rebuild. It's REALLY slow compared to what I'm used to, so it is driving me crazy.

I'm at work right now and just got this system back online after a power spike/outage zapped our switcher and firewall. So yeah, maybe I need an Apple, but I can't afford those silly looking things! BTW, our office system that crashed is Apple based, except for the 3 providers units, which are PC's. We've had WAY more problems with our Apples than our PC's, so there!

Bill


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## Knight Lights (Jul 19, 2006)

shoot, not again. too many windows open!


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## bwaites (Jul 19, 2006)

The first shipment of Tritons arrived late today. To late for me to pick them up, but they are here in town!!

I'll pick them up tomorrow, and we'll see how it goes!! I plan on shipping some lights this weekend!

The worst part of the whole build is packaging for shipping!!!

Bill


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## xpitxbullx (Jul 19, 2006)

Opps. Didn't see that reply. I'll send it out within the next few days.

Thanks,
Jeff


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## marcspar (Jul 19, 2006)

Great news, Bill!

I am really looking forward to finally getting my hands on this, the ultimate "anti-edc" torch!

Marc


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## Data (Jul 19, 2006)

Yea, I can almost smell the burning paper.


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## Codeman (Jul 19, 2006)

It's great to see that things are flowing again. After about 16 months of having either the prototype or my own, I still get stupid grins on my face every time I light her up!


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## WB (Jul 19, 2006)

Bill

Any chance we can pay the difference, and order our USL with the new Triton
charger?


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## Bright Scouter (Jul 20, 2006)

Bill,

Any substantial info yet on the new cells that are being tested? You didn't talk much about them, and I understand that. But I'm curious if you think testing will get far enough along before the last few USLs go out that we may be able to get the new cells or not. I figure mine will be one of the last to ship, so I'm curious.

Thanks!


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## bwaites (Jul 24, 2006)

Housekeeping issues:

New cells- I have heard these are close, but I haven't seen nor tested them yet. That said, I have about 30-40 packs built right now, and I will wait until I am nearly out before ordering more cells, so I'm HOPING that the new cells will be available by then. I will wait for the actual production cells, after my experience with the 1650's, before making a final decision.

New Tritons- Of course you can pay the difference and upgrade to the new Triton if you desire AND it is available. It MAY push you back a little in line since the new ones aren't out yet, but then again, it may not, depending on how I finish off these lights time wise.

I have sent emails to the first of the lights to be shipped, and await mailing confirmation from them before shipping. (I have already shipped some lights that we had to track back down, because the owners had moved and I hadn't gotten new addresses.)

Everyone please check your emails and respond ASAP when you get my note.

Bill


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## marcspar (Jul 24, 2006)

Bill,

Any chance of getting that list posted so we can see where we are in the line?

Thanks,

Marc


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## Knight Lights (Jul 24, 2006)

Marc,

I'll have a home computer back up later tonite, (hopefully) and once I do, I can reinstall the harddrive that has all that info on it. Otherwise, it's all retyping, and I'm SLOW.

I'll pull out the shipped units and the ones I don't have current addresses for at that point.

Bill


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## Codeman (Jul 24, 2006)

Bill, your personality seems to be splitting!


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## bwaites (Jul 24, 2006)

That's just my evil, much slower twin!

No matter how hard I try, with two windows open, I do that once in a while!!

Bill


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## Codeman (Jul 24, 2006)

Well, that explains a few things for me!

I guess you'll have to split the grits I shipped ya...


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## Knight Lights (Jul 24, 2006)

Grits, he has grits coming? He NEVER tells me about the grits!!!

Bill


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## bwaites (Jul 24, 2006)

Get back in the cage! 

I tell you, he's going to kill me!

Bill


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## Codeman (Jul 24, 2006)

Actually, they're all for your son. Neither of you can have any until the USL run is complete!!! :duck:


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## bwaites (Jul 24, 2006)

Yeah,

Ben already has designs on them!!

Bill


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## Catdaddy (Jul 27, 2006)

Please let e know when to expect my light? I have little time tocome here lately and I can't keep up with the thread and all the issues with chargers and switches, etc. I know this is a huge and troublesome project and that delays are on ly to be expected. I am fine with that. But I would appreciate it so much if someone invowith thed project would take a minute to let me know what to expect and when.

Thank you sincerely,


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## marcspar (Aug 1, 2006)

Bump - with a re-request for the list of us usl waitees! 

If this list is not going to happen, would you please pm or email when I can expect my individual light.

Thanks in advance, Bill,

Marc


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## bwaites (Aug 1, 2006)

Hi Guys,

Sorry I missed CatDaddy's post this weekend, I had a LOONNNGGGGG weekend, most of which was not enjoyable.

I will have a list this evening of the presumed order. I have already sent out some notification emails, and received emails back requesting postponement of mailing some lights until the NEW Triton chargers are ready, so the list will be updated per those requests.

I just finally got my computer back up and fully functional and online over the weekend, (not fun, BTW) and the list is priority one.

marcspar, I sent an email to you last week, but got no reply, can you please PM me your proper email address?

Bill


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## marcspar (Aug 1, 2006)

Thanks for the update!

PM sent with email addresses....

Marc


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## BVH (Aug 1, 2006)

Bill, got an email from you a couple of weeks ago verifying my mailing address in prep for shipment. I emailed back my info but also mentioned that I thought I'd be one of the very last shipments because mine is guardless. Didn't get any indication that you got the return email. I just want to be sure you don't end up shipping a guarded light.


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## bwaites (Aug 1, 2006)

BVH,

I got it and replied, sorry it didn't get to you, I had some problems with my ISP at about that time and several emails I sent evidently weren't delivered. You are correct, I missed the section with "unguarded" on it. I will, however, take you up on your offer to make yours the "pioneer" unguarded light!

I'm working on the updated list right now.

Bill


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## Data (Aug 2, 2006)

I got an email from you and I replied to it too. I did not get any response though. Did my email fall through the cracks?


Cheers
Dave


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## bwaites (Aug 2, 2006)

Data, Got yours.

Those of you who received emails for guarded lights are all ok. I have not sent out shipping info as yet due to my computer issues. I believe those are all in the past and will be sending that info out in the next 3-5 days as I get the list finalized.

Bill


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## Raindrop (Aug 2, 2006)

Bill,

I replied confirming my address was the same as when I paid and didn't ever recieve a reply or shipping confirmation.

~Greg


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## bwaites (Aug 2, 2006)

Raindrop,

As noted above, I have not sent out the emails for shipping charges as yet because of computer issues. I have those resolved and the lights are/will be packed up this week and shipped as soon as I receive payment for shipping charges.

Bill


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## bwaites (Aug 2, 2006)

OK, here is the preliminary list. If you are not on this list, and feel you should be, it may be because of 2 reasons:

1) I never received the information requested in this thread:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105416

or 2) I screwed up!

*This list is comprised only of those who sent me confirming emails and addresses in reply to the above thread!*

If either is the case, help me get it up to date by emailing me the correct information to the email in the thread above, and I will update the list ASAP. There are lots of gaps, that is because lots of people have not sent me info or the gaps are standard charger buyers.

Those of you who have received emails in the last 2 weeks are not included in the list as your lights are ready, and just awaiting the final inspection and packing.

15. kevindick
17. Dynacolt
19. Glo In Dark
21. Karlthev
24. naromtap
27. Topper
29. marcspar
31.1, 31.2, 31.3 Bobbo, MJLED Minimag winner
33. MikeF
34. Hoppy1010
36. Mark65
37. jte
41. Alauda
43. paulr
46. Fleshlite
47, 47.1 chasm22
49. ddaadd
54. Will7079
55. Jerimoth
56. ths11
57.1, 57.2 Fat_Tony
63. mst3k
66. Catdaddy
69. rdh226
71. revv11
72.1, 72.2, 74 Carpe Diem (I know at least one of these sold, but I don’t seem to have the info on the buyer. Please forward it to me.)
73. Trashman
75. wantthatlight
77. Soundbox
78. editedby

No Guard USL’s
39. DaveNagy
50. Mad Maxabeam
61. Sakugenken


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## Bright Scouter (Aug 2, 2006)

Bill,

PM sent.


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## nethiker (Aug 2, 2006)

Hi Bill,

I replied to your email with shipping info. I don't know if you got it or not, but I don't see my name on the list.


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## bwaites (Aug 2, 2006)

Greg, I got it!

Those who have received emails aren't on the list.

Bill


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## modamag (Aug 2, 2006)

Bill, you forgot lil ol me. I volunteered be the last one on the list, but not off it


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## bwaites (Aug 2, 2006)

I got you Jonathan, but I didn't get a sheet with all the mailing info, and that is what I was working from, can you send that to my email per the thread?

Bill


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## BVH (Aug 2, 2006)

Bill, I'm not on the list because i did get the email. However, my light, i suspect, is not awaiting final inspection and packing. Should I therefore, be on the list? Sorry to add to your workload with this!


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## Catdaddy (Aug 4, 2006)

Thank you so much for the reply and the list. It makes me feel better and maybe even a little more patient just seeing my name in there!
John


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## Codeman (Aug 5, 2006)

Patience will be well-rewarded. I was at a friend's last night for dinner and I just happened to bring a few lights with me - Raw Ti, TiCub, MR-X, and the USL. The looks on folks faces as I progressively grabbed a bigger light was amazing. But, when I grabbed the USL, even the 2 women, who have no interest in tools, couldn't believe it. There were 6 of us and I was the only person that didn't say something like "holy crap" or something similar. I won't quote them directly because they'd been drinking and chose much more colorful ways to exclaim their amazement. Trust me on this - when someone who thinks a flashlight is just a flashlight sees the USL, that perception is changed forever. They might not be willing to pay and wait for such a light, but they can't deny that the USL is not just a flashlight.


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## rdh226 (Aug 5, 2006)

bwaites said:


> OK, here is the preliminary list...



Hi Bill.

I own slot #69; email sent.

-RDH


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## BVH (Aug 15, 2006)

Bill, Anything new to report?


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## Knight Lights (Aug 15, 2006)

oops!!


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## bwaites (Aug 15, 2006)

I sent out several last weekend, but had a couple pack leaks that slowed me down.

I'm actually working on some right now and hope to send 5-6 more out this week, then settle into a rhythm of 8-10 weekly until I exhaust my current battery packs.

I'm waiting on word about the new cells, still, but was told sometime in the next 4-8 weeks, which would work out about right, depending on how many more I have leak!

Currently I'm losing a pack for every 4 I charge.

Bill


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## Bright Scouter (Aug 21, 2006)

Bill,

By my estimates then, you should run out of existing batteries by sometime in late September or early October. And I would assume those of us near the bottom of the list will be getting the new batteries. If they are available by then and test out acceptably. Does that sound about right?


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## Knight Lights (Aug 21, 2006)

wrong thread!


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## bwaites (Aug 21, 2006)

It may happen sooner than that!

Of my last 8 packs that I have cycled, 6 are [email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]?!!!

Can you tell I'm more than a little frustrated?

I've emailed trying to get dates on when the new cells will be available, so far no confirmed answer, but I'll email again today.

I've just now (literally a few minutes ago) been told that the 1650's have been upgraded and shouldn't have the leaking problem, so I may need to revisit that option, too.


Bill


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## Codeman (Aug 21, 2006)

bwaites said:


> It may happen sooner than that!
> 
> Of my last 8 packs that I have cycled, 6 are [email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]?!!!
> 
> ...



Sheez, I sure wish you could get the USL's finished. I'm ready for Son of USL! :duck:


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## Bright Scouter (Aug 21, 2006)

Man, that last batch of batteries really stunk!!! 

I'm just looking forward to the day when I can answer my scouts when they ask if I happen to have a firestarter with,,, "Sure, I just put fresh batteries in my flashlight, try it out"!


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## Bright Scouter (Aug 21, 2006)

Dup post. Sorry. No need to look here, move along.


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## fleshlite (Aug 30, 2006)

Hi Bill, 
How are the battery packs holding up. Any update on the next group of completed USLs?

tks 
chris


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## Bright Scouter (Sep 7, 2006)

Bill,

It's been a couple of week now. Any word back on either the new cells or upgraded "improved" 1650s? Just curious if either in particular look like they will work for you.

Thanks!


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## bwaites (Sep 8, 2006)

Just got a reply back that new cells are on their way. They should be on the boat this week, with a 4-6 week delivery time here.

I also understand that the current cells have been redesigned and that they are having fewer leak problems. I am owed enough of those for 10-11 packs and will be receiving those soon, I hope!

I continue to build small numbers of lights with the current packs that don't leak after extensive testing. 

I will be shipping 4-5 more this weekend.

I will update the list of shipped lights once I have done that.

Bill


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## Bright Scouter (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks for the update Bill,

I keep hoping that the new cells will turn out to be even better performers. But, getting the lights done with what ever is best of the available choices is the best you can do.

Thanks again,


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## naromtap (Sep 11, 2006)

Thanks for keeping us in the picture Bill!


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## js (Sep 13, 2006)

OK everyone,

I just ordered enough CBP1650's for 15 packs, and have asked (multiple times in multiple ways in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS) that they be sent direct to Bill Waites for pre-pack build forming and cycling. Then Bill will send non-leaking cells to our battery pack making company, and they will send him back welded packs.

Of course, I know what is likely to happen. Since I am paying for all of this, someone somewhere along the line will ship to me instead of to Bill, and then I will have to ship back to Bill, and we have the whole "let's go flying back and forth across the country multiple times for fun" routine. (Crossing fingers) I *hope* that won't happen this time.

Everyone think positive. Think positive.


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## Codeman (Sep 13, 2006)

Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................breathe...


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## js (Sep 16, 2006)

Ray,

Good job! You're chanting worked! Bill called me to let me know that he received the cells safe and sound and that he is breaking them in and cycling them as we speak. If all cells are good, this will mean 15 more packs. And if they perform well and no longer leak, we can consider what to do next from there.


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## Codeman (Sep 16, 2006)

:lolsign: 

The trick is to do 13 of 'em. That's Bill's lucky number.

Now, back to

Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...
Ommmmmmmmmm......................................b reathe...


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## Minimoog (Sep 29, 2006)

Hi,

Been following this project with enthusiasm as I am on the order list.

Just wondering whether there is a chance that they will be completed by, say, the end of November as I am a neighbourhood watch co-ordinator and as we live opposite the playing fields I often shine my Thor to deter the drug addicts that linger in the half dark.

Having a pocket size version would be great as I could carry it out on my evening patrol.

Thanks for any information.

Ian (soundbox)


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## BVH (Oct 8, 2006)

Any word on the success of the 15 packs worth of cells during break-in?


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## bwaites (Oct 8, 2006)

BVH,

You are reading my mind. I just finished the last of the cells! So far, following break in and full charge runs, no leaks. Now they sit for a couple weeks, and if none leak, we build the packs.

I am continuing the build with the good packs built so far.

Some lights have or will ship in the next 48 hours.

Bill


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## BVH (Oct 8, 2006)

Very encouraging Bill, thanks for the update!


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## mst3k (Oct 11, 2006)

bwaites said:


> BVH,
> 
> You are reading my mind. I just finished the last of the cells! So far, following break in and full charge runs, no leaks. Now they sit for a couple weeks, and if none leak, we build the packs.
> 
> ...


 

Im assuming that you mean the last of the cells for the 15 or so lights and not the last of the cells for the whole production run???????


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## bwaites (Oct 11, 2006)

mst3k,

I'm sorry if I was unclear on that!

You are correct!

Bill


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## Whitelitee (Oct 15, 2006)

Are these still for sale? How much are they? Im intrested. Thank you


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## BVH (Oct 16, 2006)

Here ya go!

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=137268


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## bwaites (Oct 30, 2006)

Well, just a Bi-Weekly update.

None of the new cells have leaked, so I will cycle them one more time and if all is well, they will head off to have packs made.

As a matter of info, I had a fire in my home over the weekend. At about 4:30 AM Saturday morning an undercounter CD player that I had given my wife as a Christmas gift last year internally shorted and started on fire. Fortunately, the smell of smoke awoke me before it spread far, but our kitchen will have to be completely refinished. It sat over our kitchen desk area and destroyed our home phone system, all my EDC pocket stuff, including my Black A2 and the traveling Arc AAA, along with several knives, cell phones, etc.

What that means to the USL project is that I will be forced out of my house intermittantly as they do stuff to clean and decontaminate from the smoke. I still don't know all the details, so can't give any estimates of exactly how that will happen.

I did get to witness the venting of the two Surefire cells in the A2 and the LiIon pack in my RazrV3 as they vented just as I started to put the fire out. 

I can't clean up the items until the adjuster sees them, so I'm not sure what is recoverable and what isn't.

Fortunately, a good friend owns a fire reclamation business and he was there before 9AM and started the process.

I'll post pics and more info when I get my home computer systems back up and running, after they have been properly cleaned.

Bill


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## Topper (Oct 30, 2006)

Good to hear you woke up and you and family are safe that's the main thing. 
On the bright side, Wives LOVE NEW KITCHENS, be sure to let her pick everything out. I know it sounds like I am kidding but I am not, almost every wife would love a new kitchen, some husbands that cook would too.
Topper


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## bwaites (Oct 30, 2006)

Here is the tough thing. She left for Virginia to be with our oldest daughter who is about to have a baby. I'm stuck picking everything out!! We have similar tastes, so it should go OK.

Bill


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## Topper (Oct 30, 2006)

Bill, you dang well better call and double check every possible decision, I know Ive only been married a short 26 years so I should know better than to advise  
Best of luck  
Topper


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## Codeman (Oct 30, 2006)

Bummer! Seriously....


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## bwaites (Oct 30, 2006)

Topper, I'm nearly there, 23+ years, and yeah, I hear you!

We've talked 5 times today already, so we'll be OK!

Thanks Ray!

It is a SERIOUS bummer, but everyones OK and it's life! 

Bill


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## marcspar (Oct 30, 2006)

Bill, sorry to hear about the fire. Glad you have it under control as far as insurance and restoration plans.....

Marc


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## Bright Scouter (Oct 31, 2006)

Bill, the most important thing is that everyone is safe!

Now, you've seen the ads on tv with the wife looking at ceiling fans, right? She is taking pictures with the cell phone and sending it to hubby. You need to do that. If the wife is out of town, narrow the choices and start sending samples by way of the phone!

Good luck


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## js (Nov 8, 2006)

OK everyone. I just got off the phone with Bill, and we have come to a decision.

Given his recent house fire and the semi-disastrous state of things at casa Waites, I will be helping Bill build up the USL's. We promise to complete and mail out 30 USL's before Christmas. I will be building at least 15 of them myself, and Bill also believes that him completing 15 USL's before Christmas is an attainable goal.

We were waiting to see if any of the new CBP1650 cells that Bill has cycled would leak. They have not. Bill will be sending them out on Saturday to be made into welded packs. My contact at House of Batteries has told me that our work order is still in the pipeline and current and only waiting on new cells. So I HOPE that the turnaround will be fast. On top of that, Bill still has some of the older welded packs on hand. And I will order more cells if needed.


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## revv11 (Nov 9, 2006)

USL Production Staffing increases 100%! That is certainly good news.


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## mst3k (Nov 9, 2006)

This is relatively good news. Any estimate on how long to finish "all" of them??


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## js (Nov 9, 2006)

OK. Who is the list keeper? Codeman, right?

Can he or someone else tell me exactly how many USL's are still not made--and how many orders that equates to (i.e., could be 1 person getting 2 USL's in there, and so on). ???

Please post that info here if you could.

And QUO VADIS? Who's next in line? PM me with that info please.


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## Codeman (Nov 9, 2006)

Jim, you'll have to ask Bill. I don't know who's received their's so far, so I have no clue who hasn't nor who is next in line. Sorry.

Great avatar, BTW!


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## js (Nov 9, 2006)

Ray,

Sent an email to Bill already--just covering my bases if he says "Ray has the list".

As for the avatar, thanks, yeah, I just loved Underworld, and, of course, Kate Beckinsale!


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## mst3k (Nov 10, 2006)

js said:


> OK. Who is the list keeper? Codeman, right?
> 
> Can he or someone else tell me exactly how many USL's are still not made--and how many orders that equates to (i.e., could be 1 person getting 2 USL's in there, and so on). ???
> 
> ...


 

Ok, guys..................so after a year and a half of pretty much no lights being shipped, you don't know who is on the list or even who hasn't received lights yet?!?!? This is not giving out that warm fuzzy feeling that we have been waiting for. I just did a paypal search. I paid Bwaites for my light on March 6, 2005. Im pretty sure that most everyone paid on or around that time.


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## Bright Scouter (Nov 10, 2006)

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136293&highlight=USL

That gets you to the production list. Bill has been keeping that pretty well updated. And yes, he does know who he has sent lights to.


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## mst3k (Nov 10, 2006)

Im really not trying to be mr. poopy head here, but dang, after all this time it would really be nice to hear something positive in regards to ship dates and such. 


Dontchathink???


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## Codeman (Nov 10, 2006)

I know very well who is on the list, as does Bill. I just don't know who has received their lights and who hasn't. I'm not involved with building OR shipping the lights, so I don't have a need to know that. Bill, however, does know.

FYI - I live on the other side of the US and I'm not a modder. If I could help things along, I would. But, trust me, no one would be happy with a USL that I built!

Bill's done a good job of keeping everyone updated. And no one wishes that things had run smoother more than Bill. I might be the next in the line for wishing it was finished, as I've been volunteering my time. I'm sure Jim feels the same way. We all know how frustrating it must be for the buyers who are still waiting. But of those still waiting, who would want their USL to have a faulty battery pack? Bill could have simply shipped them with bad packs, but he's got a conscious and wants your light, once you have it, to be reliable. I think the long-term work Bill has put into insuring good packs is proof of that. Given the problems with the batteries, I know Bill has done the best he could with a very difficult situation. One that has been un-fair to everyone. All of the early testing done on the batteries before a single payment was accepted, couldn't prevent the manufacturer's problems. Stuff happens, and the USL project is a perfect example of that.

The patience that the buyers have shown has been incredible. I know I speak for Bill when I say that we have been very grateful for that. In several phone conversations we've had over the past year or so, we talked about how patient folks have been and how lucky we've been for that.

Some, for various reasons, have decided to sell their spots. To the best of my knowledge, every USL slot put up for sale has been bought by someone else.

From Bill and Jim's last posts, it sounds like a large number, if not all, of the remaining USL's will be shipped in the next month or so. Hopefully, that will help with the additional waiting. After all the troubles with the batteries, I think those last few posts by Bill and Jim are very positive.


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## js (Nov 10, 2006)

mst3k,

I'm not Bill. I was only ever involved with making the battery packs and charging cables and mailing them to Bill. I was also involved in questions like "Why are the CBP1650 cells leaking in the packs we make? and what can we do about it?"

So there's no reason I *should* know the details of the list, addresses, etc. And there are plenty of reasons why I shouldn't know peoples personal details.

I asked because I thought Codeman might be able to tell me who is next on the list that wants a Pewter USL. I asked because I have one here ready to send out and last night I wanted to maybe have the address so I could bring the package to the post office today and get it out in the mail ASAP.

But all of that said, to be honest, I don't think you SHOULD have any warm fuzzy feelings here. People have been waiting for too damn long.

Cells not available blabla faulty cells blabla switching to welded packs blabla still leaky cells blabla bla bla bla house fire bla blaba. [insert many valid excuses here]

I don't care. There may be reasons (there always are) but there are no excuses. And I offer none.

What I do offer is this:

I am going to be working my *** off to get as many USL's built and sent out as possible from now until they are ALL SENT OUT. I promise that, short of death or dismemberment, I will personally finish _at least_ 15 USL's before Christmas.

So, while I understand why you have no warm fuzzies, and why you were concerned that I didn't know exactly what was going on, you should now understand that I am a new addition to the production team. Until recently, the only USL I ever built was the proto-type.

And you should understand that I currently have one Pewter USL ready to go right now. With more to follow.


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## mst3k (Nov 11, 2006)

ok, I getcha now, sorry if I reacted the way I did. You have cleared up everything that I had a missunderstanding about. Im glad you are on the team now!!


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## Codeman (Nov 11, 2006)

mst3k, Bill's been out of town for a couple of days, but I heard from him very early this morning. I think he'll be updating everyone on things soon.


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## bwaites (Nov 11, 2006)

First,

Let me thank Ray and Jim for all the help while I've been away!

OK, to catch everyone up.

I have been anxiously awaiting the arrival of some new cells, promised months ago. These cells are advertised to have the ability to handle 18 Amps and testing of the prototype cells was positive enough that the production run has been completed and has now arrived in the US.

A group of these cells has been sent to one of CPF's most trusted test specialists, and he will be running test on the cells as soon as conditioning of the cells has been completed. Unlike what happened with the CBP 1650's where we got caught with a change in production between prototyping and building, (none of the prototype cells leaked, while about 1-5 of the initial production run did), I will not use these until THEY have been tested!

These cells are unique in that they were developed with the weaknesses that we found in the CBP 1650's in mind, so we have high hopes for them. In addition, they have about 10% MORE capacity.

However, we have 15-20 non leaking 1650 cell packs built, and the cells for about 15 more ready to be shipped to the pack builder. I will be sending a group of those packs off to Jim in the next couple days so he can build some out while I do the same. 

*I was conflicted about how to handle the new cells, but I have decided on the following:*
* *
*If you want to wait, I will build your light with the new cells, if they hold up to testing. This will delay someone who is near the top of the list, but you will get your light with the new improved cells. *
* *
*If you want your light faster, and you are near the top of the list, I will build your light with the 1650's, BUT...you will have the option to upgrade to the new pack at the cost of the new cell packs, WHEN all the lights are completed. I will NOT charge anything for the labor, I will simply change out the packs and send them back.*
* *
*All previous buyers will have the same option, but please wait until all the intial lights have been built, unless your pack has failed.*

Unbelievably, after all this time, I actually do know who I have shipped lights to, and who has sent me updated information! 

I will be updating the list in the thread above soon, but want to get all the details with Jim's offer to help and what cells go where first.

Unless someone says, "I want to wait for the new cells", your light will be built with the existing packs until they are used up, and then we will see how the testing has gone. 

mst3K, actually, there are quite a few lights out there, all the "stock" charger lights are out there, as well as a fair group of the Triton lights. I would guess in the neighborhood of 1/3 of the lights have been built and shipped. (Some people never on the list have lights, because they were field testers, etc.)

In fact, some of those have actually changed hands.

Finally, I'm with Jim, this build has been an anchor for both of us, and I REALLY appreciate his offer of help!

I've committed to building one light a day until I run out of packs, then I'll figure out where to go.

Bill


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## mst3k (Nov 11, 2006)

This is all excellent news. I. and Im sure I speak for the others on the list, really do appreciate the effort and trouble you guys have gone thru on this project.

I apologize for "freaking out". It has been a very long time.

:candle:


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## bwaites (Nov 11, 2006)

I don't think you "freaked out"! I'm amazed at the kindness and generosity of the CPF community when it comes to projects like these, and appreciate all the support I have gotten.

Everyone has the right to be frustrated, this has taken WAY too long! 

I just want to thank everyone for their patience.

Bill


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## dmdrewitt (Nov 11, 2006)

Bill

Your update today was very informative. I would like to thank you for sharing all that information. 

As a newbie to the project, it certianly does make me look forward to getting my hands on the light :thumbsup:

David


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## karlthev (Nov 11, 2006)

Well Bill, it HAS been a longer haul than I'd expected but, I'm more than sure it'll have been worth the wait. Most of us are still here. Glad to see that you are as well.


Karl


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## Dynacolt (Nov 11, 2006)

I'm happy to wait patiently for mine, and would rather wait for one with the new cell pack, as it would be a PITA to return the light overseas in the event I needed a pack replaced.
Thanks for keeping us up-to-date.

Dave.


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## Dynacolt (Nov 11, 2006)

Sorry, Double Post.
Dave.


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## bwaites (Nov 11, 2006)

Thanks Dynacolt, updated the shipping list!

Bill


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## Carpe Diem (Nov 11, 2006)

Hi Bill...

I think I`m still somewhat at the end of your list. No matter what, though, I`ll continue to wait for the new cells.

Take care.


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## bwaites (Nov 11, 2006)

Thanks, Carpe, noted!

Bill


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## nethiker (Nov 12, 2006)

Hi Bill,

Sorry to hear about the house. Glad it sounds like it was limited and everyone is well. I'm in no hurry and would prefer to wait for the new cells.

I'd like to add a big thanks to JS for jumping in here to lend Bill a hand. I appreciate all the effort from everyone involved to see this project through. 

:thanks:

Greg


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## Bright Scouter (Nov 12, 2006)

I want to thank Bill and JS and everyone else associated with this. I know it has been a pain. So my hat is off to all of you for sticking with it.

As for the batteries, I know I am at the bottom of the list. But if I have a choice, I would like to wait for the new cells also.

Thanks again!


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## alauda (Nov 13, 2006)

I too, would like to wait for the new cells. We have all come so far in following this adventure it would be such a shame to spoil it at the last moment, as returning the USL back to USA would be a Pain in the A***.

Could you please mark me up as wiating for new cells.

Thanks

Tony


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## karlthev (Nov 13, 2006)

Good conversation and still patient Bill awaiting the new technology.


Karl


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## BVH (Nov 13, 2006)

Bill, I'm guardless so by default, at the end of the list. I'll wait for the new cells if it doesn't happen by default. Thanks for the update!


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## Minimoog (Nov 13, 2006)

As I am in the UK, I would rather wait for the new cells for my USL - thank you.

All the best,

Ian, UK


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## fleshlite (Nov 13, 2006)

Bill,
I'm in no rush , so I too will be willing to wait for the new cell packs.


tks 
chris


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## Topper (Nov 13, 2006)

*If you want your light faster, and you are near the top of the list, I will build your light with the 1650's, BUT...you will have the option to upgrade to the new pack at the cost of the new cell packs, WHEN all the lights are completed. I will NOT charge anything for the labor, I will simply change out the packs and send them back.

All previous buyers will have the same option, but please wait until all the intial lights have been built, unless your pack has failed.*

I might be missing something so double check me on this.
The packs you have now have been tested and are OK. If I want I can upgrade AFTER all other lights go out to thier owners. This is an option no matter if the pack is bad or remains fine I can still swap it out? If my pack fails after ??? I can get it replaced possibly sooner.
Is that correct? 
Topper


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## bwaites (Nov 13, 2006)

Topper, 

Correct!

If the new cells work out, and they are superior, you can swap out the existing pack for those at their cost! It's the ONE benefit of having to wait so long!!

Bill


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## Topper (Nov 13, 2006)

Well I don't know where I am on the list but I see no reason to wait if you have tested the cells you have now and they are not leaking I see no reason to wait longer than need be. So if a lot are choosing to wait that should move me up.
Topper


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## modamag (Nov 13, 2006)

Bill, I'll take mine with the current working 1650. I'll take care of the retrofit upgrade later, I just want to roast some marshmellow for xmas.


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## Codeman (Nov 13, 2006)

modamag said:


> Bill, I'll take mine with the current working 1650. I'll take care of the retrofit upgrade later, I just want to roast some marshmellow for xmas.



The BEST reason to own a USL! :lolsign:


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## ddaadd (Nov 13, 2006)

I smoked a computer a while back, had no clue it was 3 months ago.. 

Man I miss this place he he... However my wallet has healed nicely thank you!

I spent the weekend racking leaves into my ditch, went to city hall and got 

my burning permit, umm, Bill, I am in need of a flame thrower....

My brother in-law is a volunteer fireman, I can't wait to see the look on his 

face....:huh: :lolsign: Count me in as sooo ready!!


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## Data (Nov 13, 2006)

Bill

I do not want to wait either. If you have a red one ready to go please send it to me! 


Cheers
Dave


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## karlthev (Nov 14, 2006)

Bill, e-mail to you. Data, see you in a few days?


Karl


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## js (Nov 14, 2006)

Everyone,

First of all, thanks for your kind words!

The new batteries. Yes. OK, well they have not yet been tested by SilverFox, or by me, so we have no way of knowing how good they actually are, and what capacity they will actually DELIVER, and at what voltages. In other words, we do not yet know what the performance of these cells even is yet.

So that's point number 1. Next, even if they do outperform the CBP1650's, we still do not know how they will hold up over time. The CBP1650's, as troublesome as they have been, have definitely held up with cycling--as long as they don't leak, of course! And this newest batch looks to have solved that problem. So, what I'm saying is that we do not yet know what the reliability of these cells will be. Point 2.

Point 3. Even given that they perform better and are reliable, from a practical, use standpoint, you are not likely to notice the difference between them because the USL is going to be used in short bursts. A 14 minute runtime intsead of a 12 minute runtime will probably never make itself felt. Although, to be fair, that would mean 2 more marshmallows that could be roasted on a charge! LOL!

Point 4. Given points 1-3, setting aside perfectly useable, TESTED battery packs seems to me to be unwise. We really should use all the CBP1650 packs.

OK. Those are my thoughts on the new cells, FWIW.


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## dmdrewitt (Nov 14, 2006)

Is swapping the pack a big job? 

Can it be done without sending back to Bill?

David


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## js (Nov 14, 2006)

dmdrewitt,

Probably needs to go back to Bill, but it depends on how modding-handy you are. With a bit of direction from Bill, and the ability to solder, you could proably do it yourself.


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## dmdrewitt (Nov 14, 2006)

Thanks Jim

I'd like to take the current cells, and cross the "swapout" brigde, if needed in the future. I agree with Point 4!!



> Point 4. Given points 1-3, setting aside perfectly useable, TESTED battery packs seems to me to be unwise. We really should use all the CBP1650 packs.



David


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## karlthev (Nov 14, 2006)

OK...I have bounced back and forth on this one but, I'll go "conservative" I guess and go with the tried and true "current" (forgive the use of the term!) batteries. I agree that I will probably never, ever have my USL on for any great period of time. I will take my light as soon as it can be built...  



Karl


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## mst3k (Nov 14, 2006)

Looking at everything so far, plus the fact that Im number 63 on the list, I too, even tho I snapped  will wait for the new cells. 

Thanks everyone!


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## js (Nov 14, 2006)

mst3k said:


> Looking at everything so far, plus the fact that Im number 63 on the list, I too, even tho I snapped  will wait for the new cells.
> 
> Thanks everyone!



mst3k,

You didn't snap! Not at all. You were just concerned, understandably so. My posts could have been more clear. Plus, I've been associated with this project from way back, and my exact role wasn't often stated. Please don't give it a moments thought!


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## MikeF (Nov 15, 2006)

I will take whichever cells are available when my spot in the list is filled. Bill, I'm sure glad that no one was hurt in the fire!


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## Topper (Nov 16, 2006)

bwaites said:


> Thanks Dynacolt, updated the shipping list!
> 
> Bill


 
Dumb question but where is this "list" as I bought into a spot and not following all along I have no clue as to the list or where I am on it. No stress just stupidity on my part. I don't even know what color I bought not that I care.
Topper


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## Bright Scouter (Nov 17, 2006)

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136293


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## Sakugenken (Nov 17, 2006)

Wow, I am last! Sure it will be worth the wait though. Anticipation is always part of the fun in a new light.


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## modamag (Nov 17, 2006)

Bill can you put my name on the list. I want that warm fuzzy feeling on beeing on the burnoff list


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## Topper (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks Bright Scouter 
Topper


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## MikeF (Nov 17, 2006)

Well, I am wondering which I will receive first? The USL, the HD-M6, or the Mil-Spec Kroma? Any guesses?
:rock:


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## Topper (Nov 17, 2006)

My guess is the USL followed by the Mil-Spec Kroma just a guess.
Topper


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## Data (Nov 19, 2006)

*FIRE!*​


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## js (Dec 1, 2006)

OK. I have not yet received any USL parts and peices to start my build of the 14 USL's (1 has already been built and delivered). In addition, Bill only has 6 good USL packs on hand to send me right now. The cells for the 15 new CBP packs have been at the House of Batteries for a week or two now. I will be calling my contact there today to see what state they are in. According to what I was told, they would only need a 1 week turnaround.

_It is still my intention and commitment to build 15 USL's by Christmas_. It will happen if it is humanly possible for it to happen. But right now, zero progress towards that goal has been made--other than the one USL mentioned.

OK. That's the update.


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## Knight Lights (Dec 1, 2006)

!?!


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## bwaites (Dec 1, 2006)

On my side, I returned home to 2 major issues:

One, my parked Yukon XL was broken into while I was on the east coast, this while parked in the front lot of a major chain hotel. I lost a Surefire A2, (not my new black version!) and a couple of Mag Mods, one a Milky240, along with various and sundry other items. Not something that will slow USL production, but a pain in the rear, never the less.

Two, the house was NOT finished while I was gone as promised, and in fact on our return we discovered that a significant portion of the actual cleaning that had SUPPOSEDLY been done before I left was in fact NOT completed. My wife and I have spent the last two evenings, and she spent all day yesterday, trying to correct the stuff that was necessary to return to live in the house. I have yet to make it even into my flashlight room to sort through the stuff necessary to send off to Jim. This will delay my building some of the lights, but I will get the packs that I have off to Jim as soon as I can, probably this evening or definitely tomorrow.

I have taken this afternoon off to deal with the issues that the contractor has left undone, and that will also allow me to get into the flashlight room to get the parts packaged up for Jim.

If I didn't have bad luck right now, I would have NO luck!

Bill


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## js (Dec 1, 2006)

Wow, Bill. That truly SUCKS! Sorry to hear it.

Don't kill yourself to mail stuff out to me. It will get to me when it gets to me.

As long as we do our best and keep people fully informed.

BTW, why the Knight Lights "!?!" post?


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## Codeman (Dec 1, 2006)

js said:


> Wow, Bill. That truly SUCKS! Sorry to hear it.
> ...BTW, why the Knight Lights "!?!" post?



Bill's only having marginal success keeping his alter ego's in check! :lolsign:


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## js (Dec 1, 2006)

Wow, Ray. Should we, like, you know, be worried about the alter ego? Is it, like, violent or anything?

Which Bill are we addressing here? Hello? How many of you are there, Bill?


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## bwaites (Dec 1, 2006)

Just one, but I opened the thread on my work computer, which uses Firefox and is set up as Knight Lights, and posted before I realized that I was posting as the milkyspit/modder representative Knight Lights. 

And besides that, I'm still a little shell shocked by the fire, the trip, and the freakin' break in of my rig! 

Gimme a LITTLE break!)

Bill


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## js (Dec 1, 2006)

Sorry, Bill! Just trying to inject a little humor into your life. Seems like you might need it right now. Sorry if it wasn't actually funny.


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## bwaites (Dec 1, 2006)

I DID think it was funny! No offense taken, sorry if it seemed like I was upset!

It just seems like right now nothing I touch comes out the way I expect it to!

I do know that the brightest days always come after the darkest nights, and that I will get this taken care of!

Bill


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## js (Dec 1, 2006)

bwaites said:


> I DID think it was funny! No offense taken, sorry if it seemed like I was upset!
> 
> It just seems like right now nothing I touch comes out the way I expect it to!
> 
> ...



AH! Ray, this seems like a communication from the "good" Bill persona. Do you think the evil Bill and the good Bill can communicate, can share information? Or is there a total disconnect between them? Interesting.


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## Codeman (Dec 1, 2006)

No, They are two distinct personalities who not only can't mix and mingle, they can't even acknowledge the other one's existence. One enjoys yeller grits and is always nice and clear to understand. The evil Bill has bad things happening all the time - major bad mojo, me thinks - I try to stay away from him as much as possible...

At first, I thought bwaites = good Bill and KnightLights=bad Bill, but it's more complicated than that. Seems KnightLights actually thinks he is bwaites at times...and comes up with lame excuses about it being a computer's fault and such when we catch him in the act. It's really sad....but scary.

My adivce. keep an eye on both Bill's. And don't leave the east coast!

Just between us, though, I have heard a rumor that there is only a single way to tell the bad Bill from the good Bill. Apparently, Bad Bill is mad at Good Bill because of the USL project. Bad Bill, you see, is a closest stock Maglite lover. He can't stand improved and modded lights. If it's not a Stock Mag, Bad Bill thinks they're evil and should be burned. He's really the cause of all the problems. :naughty: :huh2:   :lolsign:


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## js (Dec 1, 2006)

Penetrating and cogent analysis, Codeman. I can see that you have been a bwaites-ologist for longer than me. We should probably start a thread somewhere to preserve this knoweldge for future psychologists to study.


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## bwaites (Dec 2, 2006)

Wow...Now I'm starting to figure it out! The Knight Lights bad mojo is overriding the bwaites good mojo, and causing all these catastrophes!

OK, now I just have to figure out how to get rid of the bad mojo! Anyone know a good bad mojo exorcist who won't take the good mojo when he gets rid of the bad?

WAIT a second...maybe if I recall all the lights that the good bwaites sent out as gifts and giveaways my good mojo will come back with them...yeah, that's got to be it, I gave away too many lights and the light mojo deity is mad at me and is making me pay by taking some of my remaining lights away!!!

HMMMM....how to get those back :lolsign: :lolsign: :lolsign: 

Bill


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## BVH (Dec 2, 2006)

Bill, I don't remember the status of the new style versus old style Triton chargers. Would it be possible to mail my Triton (new style preferred but old OK) to me separate from my unguarded USL if I pay the extra shipping charge? I find I have quite a few uses for this type of charger and don't have anything like it to use.


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## bwaites (Dec 2, 2006)

BVH,

I have some of the old style chargers still, last time I checked with my dealer, he still couldn't get the new ones.

I'm still trying to deal with the mess from the fire, (some of the replacement appliances were delivered this AM), but hope to get some packages to the Post Office Monday if that works for you!

Bill


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## BVH (Dec 2, 2006)

Bill, that would be fine - any time next week. I just didn't want to wait for my light since its guardless and will be towards the end. Thanks a million!

Let me know the charge and I'll PayPal you.


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## bwaites (Dec 6, 2006)

js now has a group of bodies on their way to him. In addition, the new battery packs will be shipped to him sometime in the next 7 days from the pack builder.

He will have all the supplies to complete his lights prior to the commitment date.

I have about the same number of non leaking packs that should also be ready, although the fire consequences are more time consuming than I ever imagined, I hope to also complete 15 more lights before Christmas.

Bill


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## Bright Scouter (Dec 6, 2006)

Way to go guys!!! Keep it up!!!


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## js (Dec 7, 2006)

Ah,

EXCELLENT! I was going to post an update, but Bill beat me to it. For the record, I did call the HoB guy when I said I would, but it took him a while to figure out what the situation was and get back to me.


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## karlthev (Dec 7, 2006)

:rock: 



Karl


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## bwaites (Dec 7, 2006)

karl,

I had yours at PhotonFest 7!!

It's ready, but with our recent fire I have been so busy with cleanup and inventory that I haven't been able to send anything out beyond the bodies above.

Bill


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## karlthev (Dec 7, 2006)

Luxlover told me you had one but I didn't realize it was mine. Hey. ya better get it to me soon before you burn it out Bill!!! By the way, what is the bulb I need when I burn this one out? I think I had ordered an extra? Let me know!


Karl


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## bwaites (Dec 7, 2006)

No one there saw yours, it was packed away safely.

They saw mine and Data's though!

Bill


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## karlthev (Dec 8, 2006)

Hey, this is a G rating here Bill, none of that "I'll show ya mine if you show me yours" stuff doncha know!!  


Karl


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## Bright Scouter (Dec 8, 2006)

I just wish Bill would show me MINE!!! 

I am SSOOOOOOOOO far down the list.


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## alauda (Dec 8, 2006)

I have just checked the list and I am not shown as "Waiting for evaluation of new cells"...

When you get a chance could you please update as shipping to and from UK is just too expensive/risky.

Many Thanks

Tony


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## bwaites (Dec 8, 2006)

alauda, done, sorry!!

Bill


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## xpitxbullx (Dec 8, 2006)

Damn, I really need to get off my butt and send you my light. I've been so preoccupied lately.

Jeff


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## BVH (Dec 11, 2006)

Bill, I wanted to wait for evaluation of the new cells also. Didn't see the note by my name on the list. Also, any movement on possibly sending me the Triton?


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## modamag (Dec 12, 2006)

Hey Bill,

I'm envious, I saw Data got a chance to start melting some marshmellow at the last PF7? Any chance I'll get to roast some chestnut this X-mas?

Just in case you forgot, mine is the the plane Jane version. Any color, guard or no guard and any cells, new or old. 

Cheers,
Jonathan


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## js (Dec 12, 2006)

OK everyone, here's the update:

I have five USL bodies in my possesion right now, but no battery packs yet. They shipped from CA on Thursday of last week. As soon as they get to me, I will post. I expect to see them tomorrow or the next day for sure, and possibly today. As soon as I get them, I will build up the five USL's and send them to Bill. Expect to see posts with pictures of the progress.

So, thus far, still only one USL built by me, but that should change soon.

And Bill will be sending me more USL bodies this week (if he hasn't aleady sent them).


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## js (Dec 14, 2006)

I now have 15 USL battery packs in my possession. I got them last night after work. I confered with Bill about the best position of the can for the build process and about wire lengths and so on, and thought everything out in my own special brain.

SO, tonight after work I will begin the build process and post pictures of the progress. I see no reason why I won't be mailing out all five USL's back to Bill on or before Monday of next week, although I am shooting for Saturday.

Bill told me last night that he would be getting more bodies out in the mail to me today. So, by Monday, I should be able to begin to make up another 10 (or however many) USL's.

Bill, if you're reading this, it might be about time to start a "part 2" of this thread! Better for you to do it than for Sasha to do it for you.


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## js (Dec 14, 2006)

I just finished the first one of this batch of USL's. It is sitting on my workbench right now so the RTV can dry overnight before I push the switch down into place. No pictures, as one USL on a workbench isn't all that exciting. I had hoped that the first one would go smoothly, and that I could then move on to do all five this evening and post a nice photo of the progress. BUT, it was a bit more frustrating and annoying than I had hoped for, so just the one got done.

The others will definitely go more smoothly and quickly, though. So, anyway, there it is. Some progress tonight. I won't be able to finish any tomorrow, unfortunately, as my wife's family will be visiting in the morning and afternoon and after that I will be on shift at the accelerator from 4 pm to midnight. Thus, I will make up the other four Saturday and/or Sunday and get all five packed up to mail back to Bill on Monday. Sorry I wasn't able to make a Saturday mailing.


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## bwaites (Dec 15, 2006)

Indeed the bodies are on the way to Jim!

I just shipped one USL, and I have a couple more ready to ship tonite. 

I'm doing my best to have as many built by Christmas as possible. 

A few of you will have light by Christmas, and more by New Years!!

Bill


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## BVH (Dec 15, 2006)

I'm still as excited now as I was when my order was placed! Can't wait!


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## bwaites (Dec 15, 2006)

New Thread here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1737839#post1737839

Bill


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