# DX Cree Q5 star



## kwarwick (Jan 8, 2008)

I just received this Cree Q5 star from DealExtreme today and installed it in one of my flashlights to replace a Cree P4. I'm wondering if there is any way to tell if this really is a Q5? It has the 4 bond wires of other Q5s but I'm curious about the clear dome over the LED... all the pictures of the Q5 I've seen have had yellow domes.


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## WeLight (Jan 8, 2008)

All new Cree leds have removed the phosphor colour surrounding the die. This is the latest Q5 led


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## JB01245 (Jan 9, 2008)

> WeLight
> All new Cree leds have removed the phosphor colour surrounding the die. This is the latest Q5 led


 

???? The latest Cree R2's that I just recieved do not look like this, they have the phosphor surrounding the die. Anybody else?


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## SteveDavis (Jan 9, 2008)

This LED was made at the retooled Cotco facility in China. It is a genuine Cree, and there is no performance difference from those made in the US with the phosphor coating over the lead frame. There is no way to request one version over the other, and everyone can expect to get some of each type with successive orders (though a single reel will be all one type).


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## VanIsleDSM (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm not sure, but I thought that all CREE LEDs were made in Carolina? What's this outsourcing to China crap all about? I'll stop buying CREE if that's the case.

...there's no way an LED made is China is as good.. same factory setup or not.. it just never ends up like that.


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## LukeA (Jan 9, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> I'm not sure, but I thought that all CREE LEDs were made in Carolina? What's this outsourcing to China crap all about? I'll stop buying CREE if that's the case.
> 
> ...there's no way an LED made is China is as good.. same factory setup or not.. it just never ends up like that.



Yawn.

Ever buy an iPod?


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## WeLight (Jan 9, 2008)

The reality is the magic mostly lies in the die which is still made in NC. The Cotco facility is a packaging plant. Initial tests from several customers indicates slightly lower vf with this package and improved light output. This however is only anecdotal at this stage as Cree's Product Change Notice advises no change in product spec
​


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## SteveDavis (Jan 9, 2008)

Also, this is not outsourcing to China. Cree has bought Cotco, and keeps a close eye on quality from the Chinese manufacturing facility. There is absolutely no reason to expect a drop in quality.


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## nanotech17 (Jan 9, 2008)

how is the performance?
a) better
b) relatively still the same
c) worse than before


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## kwarwick (Jan 10, 2008)

nanotech17 said:


> how is the performance?
> a) better
> b) relatively still the same
> c) worse than before



Hard to say at this point since I don't have a light meter. Subjectively I'd say the brightness is about the same, maybe a little brighter, but with a whiter tint. With the previous LED, which I believe was a P4 approximately 900-925 ma were being pulled from a fresh 18650. With this Q5 I'm seeing about 700-725 ma. I'm going to replace the driver with a multimode rated at 1A, so hopefully this will allow a more current.


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## JB01245 (Jan 10, 2008)

SteveDavis
How come you guys, Arrow Lighting, can't get the latest releases of Crees, or can you? Waiting on stuff to come from the other side of the planet is a real pain.


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## SteveDavis (Jan 10, 2008)

We do get the latest releases. It is admittedly tough to get them through our website in small quantities, but if you're willing to buy a mini reel at 250pcs, we can probably get what you want, provided some flexibility on exact color bins. Are you in the US? If you can do an order of decent size, go ahead and call 1-888-9light1 and we'll see what we can do for you.

We have R2's in limited quantity, and some warmer white P4's.


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## nanotech17 (Jan 10, 2008)

kwarwick said:


> Hard to say at this point since I don't have a light meter. Subjectively I'd say the brightness is about the same, maybe a little brighter, but with a whiter tint. With the previous LED, which I believe was a P4 approximately 900-925 ma were being pulled from a fresh 18650. With this Q5 I'm seeing about 700-725 ma. I'm going to replace the driver with a multimode rated at 1A, so hopefully this will allow a more current.



Thank You bro,

You can guess what i just did


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## VanIsleDSM (Jan 10, 2008)

LukeA said:


> Yawn.
> 
> Ever buy an iPod?



No.. I haven't.

... you must live in a box, watch the news at all in 2007?



Good that the die is still made in NC, I suppose that is the magic.. I still don't think it's right, but at least the quality won't go to crap.. I'm willing to bet we won't see the benefit of the money they save from cheap foreign labour though... if they were doing it so they could chop the price of the LED for us, ok.. fair enough.. but what are the chances of that? When companies turn to chinese manufacturing they're just trying to be more lucrative..


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## VidPro (Jan 10, 2008)

thanks for the PIC Kwarwick.

the Q5s i got from DX earlier with the same base star, look the same EXCEPT for mine have the yellow slop all over, not like your pic there.
that looks so "clean" .

I wonder if there is now any less effect of the yellowish side spill, you know called Rings when the reflector is on it.
most of the yellow side shooting i am sure is through the phosphors on the emitting thing, going sideways,. but i woulder how much of it was "reflected" off of that base around it.

wonder which one reflects more light, the yellowish stuff there or the shiney metalic look.


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## lightfet (Jan 11, 2008)

I received the Q5 star from DX last week and installed it into my Romisen RC-G2 it give out a *purple* tint which I didn't like.

Does anyone else experience the same purple tint with WG Q5 from DX?


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## SemiMan (Jan 11, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> No.. I haven't.
> 
> ... you must live in a box, watch the news at all in 2007?
> 
> ...



While there are still several wafer fabs in the U.S. I do not think there is even one high volume semiconductor product that is packaged in the U.S. Virtually all the semiconductor packaging plants are in low wage locations, i.e. China, Phillipines, Malaysia, Thailand, etc. Malaysia and that general area of the world are still huge in packaging, but that is starting to be viewed as too expensive, hence new plants were moved into China. Now some are looking for even cheaper packaging plants.

Packaging is a surprisingly labour intensive process (well at least it is now), hence why it is in cheap labour locations.

Certainly those cost savings are passed along to the consumer, but we always have a choice. You can pay either twice as much for your LEDs or accept wages that are half as much.......or have both forced on you by shopping at Walmart and the likes.... a choice that many have made freely... 


Semiman


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## VanIsleDSM (Jan 12, 2008)

You forgot Taiwan and Mexico.

I'm quite aware of the situation.. I liked how CREE wasn't swinging that way though... I don't want to get lead poisoning from my LEDs


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## koala (Jan 12, 2008)

You wont get lead on cree if its RoHS compliant. However if you buy cree on star from places like dx then thats another story.


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## EntropyQ3 (Jan 12, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> You forgot Taiwan and Mexico.
> 
> I'm quite aware of the situation.. I liked how CREE wasn't swinging that way though... I don't want to get lead poisoning from my LEDs



I know you're joking but - glass blowers blowing crystal glass used to get grams(!) of lead into their system every day. They lived healthy lives but it was said that if they started drinking milk to their meals they got acute lead poisoning - the lead was driven out from their bones by the increased intake of calcium. Medical studies later concluded that the body could pass a couple of grams of lead through per day. The limits we see today are there for other reasons.


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## saabluster (Jan 12, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> When companies turn to chinese manufacturing they're just trying to be more lucrative..


God forbid a company try and make more money.


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## LukeA (Jan 12, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> No.. I haven't.
> 
> ... you must live in a box, watch the news at all in 2007?



You picked the wrong CPFer to argue globalization with.


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## VanIsleDSM (Jan 13, 2008)

saabluster said:


> God forbid a company try and make more money.




Well.. my lead poisoning comment was a joke.. and there is nothing wrong with trying to make more money.. until it gets to the point to where there is so little quality control that people's pets start dieing.. and there is lead paint on children's toys.

Even a republican can agree with that..

Not the place for this conversation though.


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## kwarwick (Jan 13, 2008)

VidPro said:


> I wonder if there is now any less effect of the yellowish side spill, you know called Rings when the reflector is on it.
> most of the yellow side shooting i am sure is through the phosphors on the emitting thing, going sideways,. but i woulder how much of it was "reflected" off of that base around it.
> 
> wonder which one reflects more light, the yellowish stuff there or the shiney metalic look.



Doesn't appear to be any difference in that respect. I have an older yellow domed Q5 and this new one and they both exhibit slight yellow rings around the hot spot when using a OP reflector.

Karl


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## Nitroz (Jan 13, 2008)

kwarwick said:


> Hard to say at this point since I don't have a light meter. Subjectively I'd say the brightness is about the same, maybe a little brighter, but with a whiter tint. With the previous LED, which I believe was a P4 approximately 900-925 ma were being pulled from a fresh 18650. With this Q5 I'm seeing about 700-725 ma. I'm going to replace the driver with a multimode rated at 1A, so hopefully this will allow a more current.



Where you direct driving the LED?


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## haloweenhamster (Jan 13, 2008)

the reason for the yellow dome is coz people in the us like yellow light probable because of your car head lights are yellow i think 
where as china mainly but not always make clear domes because the rest of the world like more of a real white or cool white

even if you look at standard LEDs or SMD LEDs us ones if you look at the junction its got a yellow tinge where as LEDs made anywhere else they are clear


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## kwarwick (Jan 13, 2008)

Nitroz said:


> Where you direct driving the LED?



The LED is installed in a DX "U2 style" flashlight http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1285. Powered by a single 18650 and with a modified driver (shorted R1 resistor). I've recently changed the two mode switch to a single mode an will be putting in a 16 mode 1000ma driver that should be able to drive the LED a little harder.

Karl


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## Jarl (Jan 15, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> ...there's no way an LED made is China is as good



And you wonder why the rest of the world hates America?


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## TorchBoy (Jan 15, 2008)

Jarl said:


> And you wonder why the rest of the world hates America?


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## SemiMan (Jan 15, 2008)

Excuse me?????? Please if you have nothing based on fact and valueable to add, don't. Philips Lumileds has a patent on the conformal process that allowed them to just cover the die as opposed to spreading phosphor all over. 

All the old Cree parts had phosphor spread over the inside of the package. It was not the dome that was yellow, just that there was yellow phosphor over the die as well as all over the surface of the package. These new parts have phosphor on what looks like only the surface. I would assume they have found away around Lumileds patent and/or licensed it?

Semiman



haloweenhamster said:


> the reason for the yellow dome is coz people in the us like yellow light probable because of your car head lights are yellow i think
> where as china mainly but not always make clear domes because the rest of the world like more of a real white or cool white
> 
> even if you look at standard LEDs or SMD LEDs us ones if you look at the junction its got a yellow tinge where as LEDs made anywhere else they are clear


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## saabluster (Jan 16, 2008)

I got some of these new style in a few days ago. One thing I notice is that the quality of the glass dome is MUCH better than the ones packaged in the states. The older Crees I have have distortions in the surface of the glass to varying degrees. I think these new ones will have a slightly better beam pattern as a result.


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## Fallingwater (Jan 16, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> I'm not sure, but I thought that all CREE LEDs were made in Carolina? What's this outsourcing to China crap all about? I'll stop buying CREE if that's the case.


It'll be fun to see china-bashers stop buying ANYTHING in the near future.


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## TorchBoy (Jan 16, 2008)

Fallingwater said:


> It'll be fun to see china-bashers stop buying ANYTHING in the near future.


I thought of doing that a few years ago, and I announced to a friend that I wasn't going to buy anything more that was made in China. Then I said "BTW, have a look at my new trolley jack in the back of my car."  Yep, made in China, along with the matching axle stands. I learned something that day.


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## Lite_me (Jan 16, 2008)

My NiteCore Defender Infinity has one of these newer 'clear' Q5's. Just wondering how many others have them. All the reviews I've seen of this light with pics show the yellow sided one. :shrug:


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## Fallingwater (Jan 16, 2008)

Mine is yellow. Too bad, I like the clear LED more. Oh well


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## kwarwick (Jan 17, 2008)

Well I replaced the driver in my Q5 modified U2 style flashlight. I'm using the DX 16-Mode 3W 3.7V 7135 driver board (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7612) , which I really like because you can select a group with just low/mid/high - no flash/strobe. Anyways with this new driver and a freshly charged 18650 I've seeing current draw of 930ma at the battery. I now have an extremely bright light with multiple modes. Have to say I'm very happy with the this Q5 upgrade.

Karl


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## saabluster (Jan 17, 2008)

kwarwick said:


> Well I replaced the driver in my Q5 modified U2 style flashlight. I'm using the DX 16-Mode 3W 3.7V 7135 driver board (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7612) , which I really like because you can select a group with just low/mid/high - no flash/strobe. Anyways with this new driver and a freshly charged 18650 I've seeing current draw of 930ma at the battery. I now have an extremely bright light with multiple modes. Have to say I'm very happy with the this Q5 upgrade.
> 
> Karl


I'm struggling to see how this belongs in this thread.:thinking:


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## uk_caver (Jan 21, 2008)

I got 3 of the Q5 DX stars 4 weeks ago. All 3 have the all-over-yellow phosphor.

So far, I've mounted and played with 2 of the 3.
Running at 350mA, using USWOH Seouls as a basis for comparison, one of the Q5s seems basically the same tint as the Seouls, and the other seems a little blue, but not massively so.

I was expecting WG bin, so they aren't quite what I imagined, but are more like what I wanted.
However, the 'WG' may well be a hang-over from a description for the first product (last July)?.


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## Nils (Jan 23, 2008)

I got my DX Cree Q5 star last week having ordered it begining of january.
It's the clear variation but the tint is REALLY PURPLE.

The yellow rings seem to be there still.... I had hoped at least those would be gone as I have some cheap 3W flashlight that has a generic/unknown led with phospor allover that also has a yellowish fringe to it...

As for Vforward - I'm just checking out 8 Mode Driver from DX:
0.78A at 3.75V
0.66A at 3.66V
0.64A at 3.65V 
... to be continued

For brightness I still can't say. Don't have a light meter. Might wire up a photoresitor and compare it to a SSC P4 U-bin later on.

....purple... *sigh*


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## lyyyghtmaster (Jan 25, 2008)

Nils said:


> For brightness I still can't say. Don't have a light meter. Might wire up a photoresitor and compare it to a SSC P4 U-bin later on.
> 
> ....purple... *sigh*



If you do this, be sure to use the ceiling bounce method to correct, as best as possible, for the very different beams between the two. In fact, the beams are so different that even this might not work. Maybe a closet with all white walls and ceiling?


I have ordered one to see what they're like. I kind of suspect the WG bin designation is just the first batch and they don't keep up on what bin is shipping at any given time. I, too, like a cooler color, actually WC would be fine with me. Hope it's not too far in the lavender direction (WP, WN). But I'm replacing one that already is (from a Lowe's Task Force 3W 2-C light) so that wouldn't be a disaster.


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## Nils (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey, I compared it to the Q5 in my Aurora WF-800 with both photoresistor and ceiling bounce test and they seem to be in the same area.

As for color: Well, a cool blue wouldn't be to bad... but lavender would be much closer to what the tint looks like...

Maybe put it in a pink flashlight and give it to your girl...

Hope the Q5 star from Kaidomain is a nicer color... 

Besides mine needs 3.9V to get 1A... not really that great for single cell configuration. Guess next thing I order is a SSC P4 ;-)


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## VanIsleDSM (Jan 26, 2008)

I wouldn't buy a CREE star from DX, I don't think they prep them properly before being SMTd to the star... you need to bake them to remove all moisture first, if these precautions aren't taken then you can have dramatic shifts in tint... judging by this report and many others I've seen, DX does not take these precautions..


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## nein166 (Jan 28, 2008)

JB01245 said:


> ???? The latest Cree R2's that I just recieved do not look like this, they have the phosphor surrounding the die. Anybody else?


Neither my R2s or Q5s from Endeavor's Group Buys look like that, its all yellow.


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