# Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!



## Bushman (Mar 27, 2003)

this space is reserved for a commentary for both excellent frame lock knives. Ok here it is.
EDC Great build Excellent frame lock that covers 100%. The steel is a bit hard to sharpen with ceramic sticks. but i am sure that diamond sticks would perform nicely. It holds and edge very very well. the gentle recurve (see picture) is great for cutting as it "holds" the edge to the work. The blade tension screw is oringed to help keep it percisely where you set it but mine loosens up with a day of opening and closing the knife. I suspect a microdrop of loctite would fix that minor nusiance. I LOVE the satin blade. It also has teflon "bearings that the blade sits in the tang to facilitate very smooth opening and closing.

VAPOR= all of the above except the recurve is barely noticible on the plain edge one. The combo edge I bet it cannot be noticed. The lock up is 50% but solid can be pushed to now about 90% with force. (I guess it is breaking in) 5 passes with a crock stick and stroping on denim yeilds a blade that can peel the hair off of your arm at ANY angle including laying flat against the skin!! Actually both knives can do that but it is easier with the vapor. I do not like the bead blasted blade on the vapor because I am afraid of rust pits down the road, but if I keep it clean and a bit of oil on it, I bet it will not be an issue

Conclusion Both great knives but for the money the vapor cannont be beat. If I want to do some SERIOUS cutting though you can trust that the Camillus will be in my hand. 
Pic of Camillus EDC 
Pic of Kershaw Vapor The smaller is the vapor in (mine is plain edge) and the larger is the vapor II.
The Camillus EDC and the Vapor are virtually identical in length open and closed.

Again, check back often for more to come! hopefully later tomarrow when i have both knives in front of me!


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## DieselDave (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC (154cm) vs. Kershaw Vapor*

Bushman's comments forced me to get one.

Vapor first impressions,

“You gotta be kidding me, $19.95 a Wal-Mart”

I think this knife would be competitive at $40-$50. Lock up is smooth and tight. Just like Bushman I get about a 50% lockup and can push it to about 75%. Nice weight and attention to detail. The thumb stud is a little pointy but really looks nice and is easily manipulated. I think the thumb stud is reversible for a lefty like myself. The clip is not reversible. Size wise it’s probably considered a mid-size folder. I like the sub 3.5” knives, this one is about 4”. Would carry nicely in the pocket or clipped. 

The guy at Wally World said they couldn’t keep the Ken Onion’s in stock. The one I got arrived during my salesman’s shift. I asked if he had a “51” and he said, “Yes, stocked them in a little while ago.” . I like knives that are very, very small. For most folks this is just about the right size unless you need a full size folder. For $20 it’s a steal. Stock up now for Christmas it’s a must buy for you knife nuts.


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## Bushman (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC (154cm) vs. Kershaw Vapor*

Thanks DD! for the quick and excellent write up. As i have said I will try to do a comparison tomarrow. I think, as you do for the money, you would be VERY hard pressed to find a better knife! Hurray for the vapor! 

(DD, just think of all of the bandwidth we are saving CPF by editing and reusing our old posts!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## tkl (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC (154cm) vs. Kershaw Vapor*

what blade steel is the vapor? or the rainbow leek for that matter.


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## Bushman (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC (154cm) vs. Kershaw Vapor*

It appears to be AUS-6A as stated by UnknownVT in THIS thread. Can you explain the basic working differences in some of these steels (not the chemical makeup but edge holding, rust restistance etc) Thanks.

GO down about mid way in the link provided above for VT's assessment of some frame locks.


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## UnknownVT (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC (154cm) vs. Kershaw Vapor*

[ QUOTE ]
*tkl said:*
what blade steel is the vapor? or the rainbow leek for that matter. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Bushman has replied to this:

The Kershaw Vapor uses AUS-6A steel which is a Japanese variant of 440A

The LEEK uses 440A which is an American steel.

Here's a review of the Kershaw/Ken Onion LEEK (pics)  

This is the review of Frame-Locks Bushman was refering to -
Frame-Locks (ala Sebenza)  

The pics Bushman found can be displayed directly in the post:

Camillus CUDA EDC






Kershaw Vapor


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## UnknownVT (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC (154cm) vs. Kershaw Vapor*

[ QUOTE ]
*Bushman said:*
Can you explain the basic working differences in some of these steels (not the chemical makeup but edge holding, rust restistance etc) 

[/ QUOTE ]

BladeForum Steel FAQ 

440A (and Japanese variant AUS6A) are not generally regarded as "premium" steels - but they are very rust resistant, and when properly heat treated can be very serviceable as a general purpose blade steel.

For example - for well over a month - I have carried (at home) and used on a daily basis my Kershaw LEEK 
- and after just over one month I detected a shiney flat spot on the edge and it only required a few strokes on a leather strop to bring back the edge.

This is pretty good performance for a mere humble 440A.


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## Bushman (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

Review is up with pics of both knives... Enjoy!


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## tkl (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

iirc the camillus is available in 154cm too.


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## Bill.H (Mar 29, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

A.G. Russell has a D2 version of the EDC. D2 is a tool steel, not a stainless steel. Needs some extra care for far better performance. Kinda like a good flashlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


DD, if you are a lefty and like small knife, look for a Kershaw Mini Task Model 1500L. Now discontinued, but it's one of the 2 original Kershaw Onions. the L model is left handed - the lock, stud, and clip are all on the other side. Maybe you'll find one on ebay. Great knife.

I have a 1510L (Random Task L) that's been my EDC for years. Once you have a real lefty knife you won't ever want to be backwards again.

BTW, the BM 921 appears to be totally ambidextrous - reversible clip and dual lock buttons and stud. I may get one. Also, all the knives from Swamp Rat (fixed blades) have either ambi or lefty sheaths available at no extra cost.


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## K-T (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

I have been playing with the thought of geeting a Camillus some day. The blade material is confusing me, what different ones were there?

154cm, D2, 440c, what else? Which one should be choosen? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif


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## UnknownVT (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

[ QUOTE ]
*K-T said:*
I have been playing with the thought of geeting a Camillus some day. The blade material is confusing me, what different ones were there?

154cm, D2, 440c, what else? Which one should be choosen? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Camillus on their website show 3 variations of the CUDA EDC:

CU2211 = 420HC (standard) (MSRP $69.95)
CU2201 = 154CM (MSRP $69.95 ?? )
TAL220 = Talonite - which is not a steel at all but a cobalt/chromium alloy (MSRP $220.00)
QUOTE:
TALONITE is an exotic Cobalt-Chromium alloy designed for extreme high stress applications like saw tips, deep earth drills, and high-speed scraper blades. The impressive cutting power of TALONITE is derived from it's unique matrix of Cobalt and Chromium carbides in the primarily Cobalt carrier.
UNQUOTE

and the "special" of D2 steel from AG Russell.

154CM is regarded as a "premium" stainless-steel, at one time regarded as the "tops" by the likes of Bob Loveless - the more famous and popular ATS-34 is a Japanese version of 154CM.

Talonite is very expensive for what it does practically - but it has special applications like corrosion resistance and being non-magnetic.

For the $6 more on average over the lowest prices found I suggest the 154CM version.

But personally for a mere $20 I'd rather get the Kershaw Vapor from Wal*Mart.......


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## Marty Weiner (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

You should be aware that the Vapor is clearly marked "Made In China" versus the Camillus' origin is the U.S.A.

Marty


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## UnknownVT (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

[ QUOTE ]
*Marty Weiner said:*
You should be aware that the Vapor is clearly marked "Made In China" versus the Camillus' origin is the U.S.A.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is a good point - 

my one (early) sample of the Vapor was made in Japan - all the current Vapors are now made in China with Japanese steels.

Politics aside - it should make no material difference between the Japanese and Chinese versions. 
This has been discussed a lot on BladeForums - and I do not recall anyone saying the Chinese versions were in any way inferior to the earlier Japanese versions -
in fact, I went especially to my local Wal*Mart recently just to handle one, and felt it (made in China) actually was "better"/smoother in action than my made in Japan sample.


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## Bill.H (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

K-T,
Like everything else, it depends on what you're going to use it for.

Talonite for skinning (doubt if you'd use a folder for that anyway). At the price, I'll assume you won't get it anyway.

General Guidelines for the others:

First, NO steel is really stainless, it's just varying degrees of stain resistance. Like the "waterproof" or "water resistant to X feet" terms used with flashlights and watches.

420HC if you're on a boat a lot in salt water. Resists staining better than the others so doesn't require as much care under adverse conditions. Doesn't hold an edge as long as the others.

154CM will get sharper and hold the edge longer than 420HC, it will be slightly more difficult to sharpen, but you'll do it less. Still stainless, but may stain easier than the 420HC.

D2 - NOT stainless (but close). Will get sharper and hold an edge better than any of the others but is more likely to stain. Harder to sharpen, but again, you won't be doing it as often.

How well YOU take care of it is a big thing here. I live in an oceanfront town and often am out on boats in the summer. I like D2 best. I've never had a problem with staining or rust, but I'm pretty good about taking care of it. A wipe with Tuff-Cloth or a bit of AG Russell's RustFree does the job, Break-Free CLP is good too. After a year my D2 blade still looks new.
I don't want to sit down and sharpen a knife nightly, so I prefer the harder tool steels and don't worry about rust or stains. But that is my preference, YMMV.

One last thing to consider... some people who don't use a knife heavily probably won't be able to tell the difference, and "what" you cut most is as important as "how often" you cut. There's no such thing as "best" for everyone.


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## K-T (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

Thank you, Bill. Very helpful, too! I will think about it.

Has anybody else heard the rumor that the EDC will be discontiuned?


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## Klaus (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

Klaus - I wondered about that in your email already - from where do you got this - in doubt email Will Fennel or post on the Camillus forum on BF.

Klaus


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## tkl (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

the camillus dominator assisted open knife should be out any day. street price of around $140. click here


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## Bushman (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

[ QUOTE ]
*tkl said:*
iirc the camillus is available in 154cm too. 

[/ QUOTE ]

tkl, the one that i have is in 154 cm I agree with the difficulty in sharpening and as well the better edge holding ability.


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## K-T (Apr 1, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

[ QUOTE ]
*Klaus said:*
Klaus - I wondered about that in your email already - from where do you got this - in doubt email Will Fennel or post on the Camillus forum on BF.

Klaus 

[/ QUOTE ]


When talking to Tim Flanagan about availability he told me that they are available at some places but will not be continued (this is what he was told ). 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## Klaus (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

I just posted a question to Will - lets see what comes out.

This is what I found about the EDC in respect to anything being discontinued QUOTE: Awhile back I spoke to Wendy there at warranty who said they were probably going to discontinue the black finish on those and go to the plain satin bead blast (like the original 420 models). ENDQUOTE

Oh and on the steels: Originally the EDC was produced in 420HC - which tyically isn´t considered a high-end steel by many - while besides being very rust resistant it seems that companies like Camillus and Buck do get pretty good results out of this high-carbon version of 420 due to their proper heat-treats - Darrel Ralph the designer of the EDC commented very favorably on the Camullus 420HC steel.

In parallel a special run of 500 kives had been done (for 1SKS I believe) using 154CM (the american version of ATS-34) - this became the standard version and replaced the 420HC last year.

There is a D2 version been done for A.G.Russel and besides the designer-version in 420HC for the 125.th anniversary of Camillus there also is the more expensive Talonite version.

IMO the Vapors at 20 bucks are a tremendous value and for someone with larger hands the Vapor II is much more hand filling than the quite small EDC - which for me is perfect.

The Vapor II I got for a friend and after some fine-tuning is really a very nice knife - and an incredible steal for 20 bucks - whereas the EDC typically can be found for around 50 - at least for me the 30 bucks delta is OK for the better steel - if you are near a salty environment better stay with 420HC / AUS6 and if you have bigger than small/average hands better get the larger Vapor II.

If some good soul on CPF wants to get out to Wal-Mart and grab a bunch of Vapors for 20 bucks I´m shure quite some european CPF members will be very happy about - besides that I think at the normal retail levels of 35 vs 50 bucks the EDC is the better deal as it is using the better steel.

There also is a nice EDC review from Buzzbait on BF and quite some threads about Vapor / EDC comparisons - and the Outdoor Edge Paragee as well which is quite similar.

EDC review on Blade Forum 


Klaus


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## K-T (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

Can anybody tell me what kind of EDC version this is? It says Talonite on the blade but the handle looks completely different, maybe cf?


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## Klaus (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

Klaus,

if you EVER want to be happy with a Camillus EDC (be it in 420HC, Talonite, 154CM, D2 or whatever) you need to stop lurking on Ralph Darrels site for the originals /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif

Klaus





Ralph Darrels site BTW: You have mail incoming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## K-T (Apr 13, 2003)

*Re: Camillus EDC vs. Kershaw Vapor Review is up!!!*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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