# New Surefire E2D Defender 1000 lumens - single and dual outputs



## Mr. LED (Sep 19, 2018)

Surefire has just announced the new updated E2D LED Defender.
1000 lumens, two models (single and dual output).

https://www.surefire.com/e2d-defender-flashlight.html


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## desert.snake (Sep 19, 2018)

This is good, perhaps for advertising, but I have doubts that it will work 1000 lm for a long time. Maybe the first minutes for to meet the standard of FL1, and then quickly falls to 400 lumens? Until there are known tests, I buy an old version with 200 or 500 lumens. I had 200 lm before, I sold it and now I think that I need to look for it again.


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## jalcon (Sep 19, 2018)

Looks like this is available to buy on surefire website for $199. With 10% coupon code that's $179.99. For the old version of this light, 600/5...most sites are selling it for $225+ What exactly am I missing and is this in stock.at surefire now? Or on backorder? Been out of the flashlight game for like 6 years, haha.


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## JPA261 (Sep 19, 2018)

jalcon said:


> Looks like this is available to buy on surefire website for $199. With 10% coupon code that's $179.99. For the old version of this light, 600/5...most sites are selling it for $225+ What exactly am I missing and is this in stock.at surefire now? Or on backorder? Been out of the flashlight game for like 6 years, haha.



I called Surefire this morning and they are currently on backorder. Supposedly they said that they will be back in stock sometime next week. Of course, that’s Surefire timeline so it could be several weeks before they are in stock.


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## Mr. LED (Sep 20, 2018)

desert.snake said:


> I have doubts that it will work 1000 lm for a long time.



That’s one of the reasons I won’t buy it. Surefire for a long time was away from the lumens race, now they’re in. I still love Surefire, but the new lights are not for me.


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## jalcon (Sep 20, 2018)

Even if the 1000 lm doesn't work for a long time, this light will still be better than the 500 lm version, no?


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## Mr. LED (Sep 20, 2018)

Runtimes would have to be compared, also the step down curve. But it’s subjective, some might prefer more lumens, no matter what.


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## coffeeandlifting (Oct 1, 2018)

I don't mind a step-down as long as it resets when cycling the light off and back on. Is that what we're expecting? That type of regulation actually makes sense, because if you're leaving the light on to keep something constantly illuminated, you are probably starting to care more about total runtime and not lumens. I've been wishing for a single-output e2d for awhile... Wouldn't mind a 600 lumen version, but I'll grab this one if the regulation isn't terrible and the beam is neat. Anybody have one yet?


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## carrot (Nov 7, 2018)

coffeeandlifting said:


> I don't mind a step-down as long as it resets when cycling the light off and back on. Is that what we're expecting? That type of regulation actually makes sense, because if you're leaving the light on to keep something constantly illuminated, you are probably starting to care more about total runtime and not lumens. I've been wishing for a single-output e2d for awhile... Wouldn't mind a 600 lumen version, but I'll grab this one if the regulation isn't terrible and the beam is neat. Anybody have one yet?



I'm interested in this sort of format too. I think it's perfectly reasonable to have single mode lights that are eye-searingly bright when used in momentary and quickly ramp down when used in a prolonged fashion. I've been looking at the Malkoff Bodyguard V2, which is exactly that, but the older two mode E2D-U has treated me well so it hasn't been a priority for me.


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## night.hoodie (Nov 7, 2018)

I really love Surefire, the company, and do not mind their pricing. Just to take a jab at this design, I'll ask: If you need a fork, why not buy a spork instead? The spork is also a spoon, and even though you only wanted a fork, isn't the spork better? IOW, for the love of all that is holy, I wish crenellations would die and stay dead. If you buy a flashlight for physical defense, you're doing it wrong. A flashlight is best as a lighting utility, and any other Swiss Army sort of design ideas tacked on for whatever reason, it can only dilute the prime purpose. At least it does not include the ubiqtous bottle opener found on nearly all things that are intended for something else (seems like).

Otherwise, nice update on the driver, even if it steps down. Nice to see E series is still being developed.


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## davyro (Nov 24, 2018)

I've got one in the post, I love my original e2d ultra so it'll be interesting to compare the new version against the older more expensive version. Hopefully it isn't in the post on a horse and cart as I can't really wait to get my hands on it.


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## Dave MP (Nov 26, 2018)

I stopped using my E2D Executive Defender a long time ago. Even with the LED "upgrade" head, it was impractical. The crenelated "Strike Bezel" is not something I want on a flashlight. Guess it will be relegated to the back of the drawer. I do like Surefire for their KISS, sturdy lights.


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## vadimax (Nov 27, 2018)

Has anyone received this light? Has its beam profile stayed as narrow as it was or all those extra lumens are spread over a wider hotspot?


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## civic77 (Nov 27, 2018)

vadimax said:


> Has anyone received this light? Has its beam profile stayed as narrow as it was or all those extra lumens are spread over a wider hotspot?



I am also interested in this. I sometimes do Uber eat deliveries at night and am looking for a beam similar to the 200 lumen E2DL/LX2 for spotting addresses on houses/apartments. 

Also does anyone have an estimate on the step down from 1000 lumens while running on high?


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## vadimax (Nov 27, 2018)

Ordered this one 2 days ago, but the order status is still “Processing”. Do they mean “manufacturing”?


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## davyro (Nov 28, 2018)

vadimax said:


> Has anyone received this light? Has its beam profile stayed as narrow as it was or all those extra lumens are spread over a wider hotspot?





I'm pretty sure I'll have mine in the next 48hrs. Soon as I give it a go I'll let you know my thoughts on the new light


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## AZPops (Nov 29, 2018)

night.hoodie said:


> I really love Surefire, the company, and do not mind their pricing. Just to take a jab at this design, I'll ask: If you need a fork, why not buy a spork instead? The spork is also a spoon, and even though you only wanted a fork, isn't the spork better? IOW, for the love of all that is holy, *I wish crenellations would die and stay dead.* If you buy a flashlight for physical defense, you're doing it wrong. A flashlight is best as a lighting utility, and any other Swiss Army sort of design ideas tacked on for whatever reason, it can only dilute the prime purpose. At least it does not include the ubiqtous bottle opener found on nearly all things that are intended for something else (seems like).
> 
> Otherwise, nice update on the driver, even if it steps down. Nice to see E series is still being developed.



+1

Pops


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## Mckinngkb (Dec 1, 2018)

vadimax said:


> Has anyone received this light? Has its beam profile stayed as narrow as it was or all those extra lumens are spread over a wider hotspot?



I received mine yesterday. Comparing to my 200 lumen model, the 1,000 is brighter in the center, but there is a lot more spill. I actually prefer it this way - it's more useful. Once I can post attachments I can show a side-by-side comparison.

Oh, and LONG LIVE CRENELLATIONS!!!


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## civic77 (Dec 19, 2018)

Does the 1000 lumen model throw further than the 200 lumen one & how does their Hotspot size differ?

If anyone has the new ED2 and also the EDCL2-T how do their beam profiles compare? I love the beam on my EDCL2-T but prefer the additional knurling/form factor of the E2D & the longer battery life (assuming since it is 1000 lumens instead of 1200).


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## night.hoodie (Dec 20, 2018)

Mckinngkb said:


> Oh, and LONG LIVE CRENELLATIONS!!!



LOL, srry for my rant. Its just too bad you can't buy the crenellations without having to buy the entire flashlight. They really ought to spin crenellations off into their own industry. They've been holding flashlights up for too many rounds, and its time to just let flashlights accept a TKO so the crenellations can live on and naturally evolve on their own in the free market.


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## Monocrom (Dec 20, 2018)

Have to be honest, except for the original with the domed lens, I own every variation of the E2D. Including one with the "Error Head." (Though I legoed that one together with the right body.) I own the 600/5 lumen one too. But 1000/5 lumens.... I'm just not seeing the benefit. Even single-output, I've got a SureFire G2Z MV headed my way. Paid just over $90.oo for it. Single-output, 800 lumens. I just don't see the benefit of paying double for a clip, a slightly skinnier body, and 200 more lumens. 800 actual lumens vs. 1000 actual lumens just isn't that much of a huge difference. 

Maybe I'll wait a couple of years and get the _next_ E2D.... 1500/5 lumens.


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## coffeeandlifting (Dec 27, 2018)

Monocrom said:


> Maybe I'll wait a couple of years and get the _next_ E2D.... 1500/5 lumens.



I might be wrong, But I think we're at the bleeding edge of practical output for 2xcr123a. A 1500 lumen version would be in regulation for like ten seconds. Such a light wouldn't appeal to me at all. Poor regulation is the reason I use LiFePO4 on all my 1xcr123a lights now. You just can't pull that much current from lithium primaries.
Even with the 1000 lumen model, unless I see a really impressive runtime graph, I still think 500 lumens is the sweet spot for a 2x123. If we're talking single-output, give me a p2zx all day.


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## bykfixer (Dec 27, 2018)

Yeah that whole 1000 lumen thing really did a number on the truth in lighting tools.

To me 500 is plenty, but I have a couple of 650's that stay bright without needing an oven mit.

I tried to like the EDCL2T but it just gets too hot to mentally comfortable. Run it like 2 minutes, take batteries out and place in pockets for warmth. The 1200 lumens is a sight to behold for sure, but my brain kept thinking I was carrying a hand grenade with the pin pulled.


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## Monocrom (Dec 27, 2018)

coffeeandlifting said:


> I might be wrong, But I think we're at the bleeding edge of practical output for 2xcr123a. A 1500 lumen version would be in regulation for like ten seconds. Such a light wouldn't appeal to me at all. Poor regulation is the reason I use LiFePO4 on all my 1xcr123a lights now. You just can't pull that much current from lithium primaries.
> Even with the 1000 lumen model, unless I see a really impressive runtime graph, I still think 500 lumens is the sweet spot for a 2x123. If we're talking single-output, give me a p2zx all day.



We'll see what happens in a few years. Hey, I still remember when 65 actual incandescent lumens was considered the equivalent of 650 LED lumens today! Back when you bought an LED for good output and great runtime. But if you wanted "blinding" output, you bought the proper incandescent model. (A Streamlight Scorpion if you couldn't afford or didn't want to pay for a SureFire 6P.) Who knows what another decade will bring. Or even another 2 years. 

But if I'm honest, I do think the sweet spot is also right around 500 lumens. With a lower output option that takes a bit of deliberate activation to get to. It honestly bothers me that SureFire abandoned one of the best such options for a tailcap switch. What we used to get on the L1. Push a bit for low, push farther down for high. Need high right now? Just slam your thumb down on that momentary switch. Need to perform some sort of mundane chore? Just twist the tailcap a bit for for constant low. Twist farther for constant high, but no point in that. 

That U.I. was one of the absolute best in the industry! And SureFire just tossed it aside like it was worthless when they got rid of their L-series lights. :shakehead


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## coffeeandlifting (Dec 27, 2018)

Monocrom said:


> It honestly bothers me that SureFire abandoned one of the best such options for a tailcap switch. What we used to get on the L1. Push a bit for low, push farther down for high. Need high right now? Just slam your thumb down on that momentary switch. Need to perform some sort of mundane chore? Just twist the tailcap a bit for for constant low. Twist farther for constant high, but no point in that.
> 
> That U.I. was one of the absolute best in the industry! And SureFire just tossed it aside like it was worthless when they got rid of their L-series lights. :shakehead



Check out the edcl1-t! It has that exact interface. Its the light I carry the most.


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## Monocrom (Dec 28, 2018)

coffeeandlifting said:


> Check out the edcl1-t! It has that exact interface. Its the light I carry the most.



Hey, thank you for the heads-up. I'll be honest, I was given some bad information and didn't double check it. But I'm manly enough to admit when I'm wrong. Going to leave my previous post unedited so everyone can have a hearty laugh at it. Once again, thank you for correcting me. Though my wallet hates you.


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## vadimax (Dec 28, 2018)

Monocrom said:


> Hey, thank you for the heads-up. I'll be honest, I was given some bad information and didn't double check it. But I'm manly enough to admit when I'm wrong. Going to leave my previous post unedited so everyone can have a hearty laugh at it. Once again, thank you for correcting me. Though my wallet hates you.



No reason to laugh at, it is impossible to know everything  At least we know now that you ain’t a cyborg.


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## Monocrom (Dec 28, 2018)

vadimax said:


> No reason to laugh at, it is impossible to know everything  At least we know now that you ain’t a cyborg.



Yes, that's it exactly. You have nothing to fear from me, human. :thumbsup:


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## vadimax (Jan 12, 2019)

This is weird, but might have some scientific explanation. Surefire prefers to stay at the same cd/m2 level while going up with lm level:







Left to right: E1B Backup 300lm, EDC1L-T 500lm, E2D Defender Ultra 1000lm. Looks like all extra lumens go to a wider hotspot and a brighter spill area (not seen on the image).

P.S.: Oh yeah, and heat generation as well  The Defender was the warmest one after several minutes, the Backup barely warmed up.

P.P.S.: Left and right hotspots are not symmetric because of beams being non-orthogonal to the wall.


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## mrbofus (Jan 13, 2019)

Did you ever get yours? We never heard back from you, so I wasn't sure if you decided to cancel the order or just forgot about letting us know your thoughts.



davyro said:


> I'm pretty sure I'll have mine in the next 48hrs. Soon as I give it a go I'll let you know my thoughts on the new light


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## vadimax (Jan 13, 2019)

May anyone tell the tint off the image in the post #29? I am color blind (B2) 

P.S.: Oops! Not necessary any more. Asked my wifie and... the wall turned out to be light green itself. I was sure it is light gray  But the Defender beam has light yellow tint with no green in it.


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## usdiver (Jan 13, 2019)

Has anyone tried this out in the field, not indoors? I had the 200, have the 500, not seen the 600 or 1000. 500 is way better than the 200 but the 500 clip breaks easily after time. The only benefit fo me to ditch the 500 and get the 1000 is if the 1000 doubles the distance otherwise 500 is plenty enough. Don’t forget lumens is just a number now and there are several other factors that determine how much light there is and how far it ll go.


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## kelmo (Jan 13, 2019)

I got the new one in single mode. I like it. I used it out in the open and it provides a generous hotspot with big flood. Nothing hides within what I estimate 150m. The problem with a light this bright with what I call a hybrid hotspot (a larger illumination cone) is if there is particulate or water vapor in the air the refraction washes out down range vision. It is akin to a whiteout. 

The light is very satisfying, I just wish it had a lanyard attachment point.

kelmo


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## vadimax (Jan 14, 2019)

kelmo said:


> The light is very satisfying, I just wish it had a lanyard attachment point.



Wait... a lanyard attachment point? Then what are these:


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## kelmo (Jan 14, 2019)

vadimax said:


> Wait... a lanyard attachment point? Then what are these:



I could never get a small enough split ring attached to those holes that would fit in my holster. I guess I could look for thinner paracord vadimax.


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## vadimax (Jan 15, 2019)

kelmo said:


> I could never get a small enough split ring attached to those holes that would fit in my holster. I guess I could look for thinner paracord vadimax.



Paracord heaven in EU: https://www.paracord.eu/  where you may find something like these: https://www.paracord.eu/Swivel-eye-Clip-Carabiner-Light-Version-60-mm-gun-metal. But I guess it is better to use Paracord only in order not to damage anodisation.


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## 270winchester (Jan 15, 2019)

civic77 said:


> Does the 1000 lumen model throw further than the 200 lumen one & how does their Hotspot size differ?
> 
> If anyone has the new ED2 and also the EDCL2-T how do their beam profiles compare? I love the beam on my EDCL2-T but prefer the additional knurling/form factor of the E2D & the longer battery life (assuming since it is 1000 lumens instead of 1200).



I have the same question for anyone who has both, is the new E2DL using the same LED and optics and just dialed down the drive current a bit?


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## usdiver (Jan 15, 2019)

270winchester said:


> I have the same question for anyone who has both, is the new E2DL using the same LED and optics and just dialed down the drive current a bit?



According to Surefire it’s still the same optics. 200 is definitely less, my 500 out threw the 200 by a substantial distance but haven’t had the 600 or 1000


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## Tachead (Jan 15, 2019)

kelmo said:


> I could never get a small enough split ring attached to those holes that would fit in my holster. I guess I could look for thinner paracord vadimax.



Countycomm has some Nano Titanium Split Rings. Also, Atwood Rope's Micro Cord works well for many things small👍. 

I don't think I can post a link?


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## archimedes (Jan 15, 2019)

Tachead said:


> .... Atwood Rope's Micro Cord works well for many things small👍.
> 
> I don't think I can post a link?



Easy enough to find Atwood Rope MFG with a websearch ... and thanks for mentioning that.

I was looking for aramid thread a while back, and it seemed incredibly difficult to find at that time.


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## Tachead (Jan 15, 2019)

archimedes said:


> Easy enough to find Atwood Rope MFG with a websearch ... and thanks for mentioning that.
> 
> I was looking for aramid thread a while back, and it seemed incredibly difficult to find at that time.


No problem at all👍. 

Another great option is braided fishing line like Spiderwire. I believe it is Aramid based(Dyneema)and it is super strong. The good thing about it is you can pick your size/strength too.


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## kelmo (Jan 16, 2019)

Thanks for the paracord tips guys!


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## kelmo (Jan 16, 2019)

I just went to the Atwood Rope MFG website. Man that was expensive...


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## archimedes (Jan 16, 2019)

kelmo said:


> I just went to the Atwood Rope MFG website. Man that was expensive...


Yep ....


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## Tachead (Jan 17, 2019)

Sorry guys😁


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## kelmo (Jan 17, 2019)

Tachead said:


> Sorry guys😁



Nothing to be sorry about my friend to the north!


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## 270winchester (Jan 18, 2019)

usdiver said:


> According to Surefire it’s still the same optics. 200 is definitely less, my 500 out threw the 200 by a substantial distance but haven’t had the 600 or 1000



Thank you. The EDCL-2's beam is wiiiiiide, sometimes I love it but other times it's a bit too wide...


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## kelmo (Jan 18, 2019)

270winchester said:


> Thank you. The EDCL-2's beam is wiiiiiide, sometimes I love it but other times it's a bit too wide...



I have both the E2CL-2 and latest Defender. They both have the same beam pattern.


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## vadimax (Jan 19, 2019)

kelmo said:


> I have both the E2CL-2 and latest Defender. They both have the same beam pattern.



Perhaps, Surefire has reached too far with 1200lm  People say that with an EDC2L-T primary cells are over stressed and get too warm at max output. But I have noticed nothing like that with my Defender. Yes, its head warms up, but not the battery tube.

May this be the reason of a little step back in performance?


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## Tachead (Jan 19, 2019)

I do think 1200 lumens on 2 x CR123A's is pushing it but, people need to quit being babies. Surefire is an American company that tailors to mainly professional users(LEO, MIL, Security, Government Contractors, etc.) and also probably doesn't want to get sued so, I am sure they thoroughly test all their products. Not to mention they have decades of R&D and experience(much more then most flashlight companies). Also, how many stories have people heard of EDCL2-T's or Defenders blowing up? I personally have read none. 

High power lights get got, as do their batteries. Most CR123A's are rated to at least 60C. 60C is very hot. That is 140F for you US folk. And, I am sure there is a generous safety buffer built into those specs. Not to mention most lights have either a timed step down or thermal regulation to prevent overheating.

So, use your lights people, you are taking far more risks with other things by leaving your house every day.


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## usdiver (Jan 19, 2019)

Tachead said:


> I do think 1200 lumens on 2 x CR123A's is pushing it but, people need to quit being babies. Surefire is an American company that tailors to mainly professional users(LEO, MIL, Security, Government Contractors, etc.) and also probably doesn't want to get sued so, I am sure they thoroughly test all their products. Not to mention they have decades of R&D and experience(much more then most flashlight companies). Also, how many stories have people heard of EDCL2-T's or Defenders blowing up? I personally have read none.
> 
> High power lights get got, as do their batteries. Most CR123A's are rated to at least 60C. 60C is very hot. That is 140F for you US folk. And, I am sure there is a generous safety buffer built into those specs. Not to mention most lights have either a timed step down or thermal regulation to prevent overheating.
> 
> So, use your lights people, you are taking far more risks with other things by leaving your house every day.



While I have to agree I cannot stress enough that folks wherever they are need to pay attention and not buy the cheap crap that’s intended to get our money at the expense of our safety. Countless people criticize other people for spending big money for something that to most is “just a flashlight” I use the hell out of my gear and not worried 1 single time. I can say also that Surefire is an EXCELLENT company and a hot defender at that power is nothing to worry about... unless you’re running cheap counterfeit batteries!


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## vadimax (Jan 19, 2019)

Dear gentlemen, being a believer is nothing bad, but... All we know that Lithium batteries performance suffers to some extent at “high” temperatures. Do you have other logical explanation why Surefire have designed an E2D Defender 200lm less than an EDC2L-T if the second one is “absolutely OK”?


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## Nimitz68 (Jan 19, 2019)

vadimax said:


> Dear gentlemen, being a believer is nothing bad, but... All we know that Lithium batteries performance suffers to some extent at “high” temperatures. Do you have other logical explanation why Surefire have designed an E2D Defender 200lm less than an EDC2L-T if the second one is “absolutely OK”?



That is a very interesting question. Comparing the two flashlights I would guess they have similar thermal masses. I have an EDCL2-T and it gets pretty warm/hot when left on high output for an extended period.


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## Tachead (Jan 19, 2019)

vadimax said:


> Dear gentlemen, being a believer is nothing bad, but... All we know that Lithium batteries performance suffers to some extent at “high” temperatures. Do you have other logical explanation why Surefire have designed an E2D Defender 200lm less than an EDC2L-T if the second one is “absolutely OK”?



Likely to increase runtime and/or the time it takes before a thermal step-down or just to differentiate it but, who knows, it is a different model. Why is the any light different the any other light really lol.


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## Tachead (Jan 19, 2019)

Nimitz68 said:


> That is a very interesting question. Comparing the two flashlights I would guess they have similar thermal masses. I have an EDCL2-T and it gets pretty warm/hot when left on high output for an extended period.


The EDCL2-T is slightly larger and heavier(not a huge difference though). How warm? I bet less then 60C as it is thermally regulated. Just like most other high output lights these step down to keep the temp within limits. If you wanna see hot buy a Nichia powered Emisar D4 lol. And guess what, it is still perfectly safe as it is thermally regulated too and keeps things within the manufacturers limits. 

Maybe Surefire just realized that 1200 lumens is pushing it for 2XCR123A's(although they made both the new Fury and Scout DFT 1200 as well) and wanted to stress the batteries less and achieve a longer burst before step down. I bet they would give a reason if someone just emailed them(I have no desire to know this personally or I would do it).


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## Monocrom (Jan 22, 2019)

vadimax said:


> Dear gentlemen, being a believer is nothing bad, but... All we know that Lithium batteries performance suffers to some extent at “high” temperatures. Do you have other logical explanation why Surefire have designed an E2D Defender 200lm less than an EDC2L-T if the second one is “absolutely OK”?



Honestly, could be the tailcap design differences between the two lights. 1200 Lumens of sustained use could damage a clicky tailcap that was never designed for that much output and heat. The EDCL2-T has no clicky inside the tailcap to burn out or damage. Thus, can be run hotter. Back a few years ago when modding stock SureFire lights to run brighter and brighter, it wasn't just possibly overheating the LED or the batteries that was an issue. But some guys were breaking the clicky SF tailcaps too. The non-clicky ones had no issue with that.


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## tonywalker23 (Feb 8, 2019)

The dual output finally came back in stock at Amazon this morning, and I placed an order for one. Says it'll ship later this month... was browsing the 2019 Surefire catalog and noticed a little something. In the pictures in the catalog the dual mode has the antiroll (?) thing on the head. But, if you look at the picture of the single mode defender its head looks more like the edc1 and 2 heads where the head is the entire width for the length of the entire head. Curious is someone with the new lights can verify that theirs is like that? Also, if you look at the Surefire webpage for the product, the images are inconsistent. The image against the white backgroud has the ultra with the antiroll and the tactical with no antiroll... until you get to the staged photo and then both have no antiroll.

Either way, looking forward to my new Defender coming soon. My first Surefire was a 200 lumen one. Later had the 500 lumen one. It'll be like getting the old car you had when you were younger


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## vadimax (Feb 8, 2019)

My sample (dual output) has a head looking identical to EDC1L-T, but with sharper “teeth”. No antiroll elements. The only item keeping it from rolling is a clip.


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## Mckinngkb (Feb 9, 2019)

I have the single mode 1,000 "tactical". Surefire told me that physically the 2 are the same. The pic is outdated.


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## davyro (Feb 10, 2019)

I've got the e2dl and the new e2d defender. I love the beam better from my 500 lumen older model and yes my clip is broken on it, apart from that it's a great light. I'm not a tint snob so the greenish tint doesn't bother me. The new 1000 lumen light is a lot more floody and no greenish tint at all. It still projects the hot spot a good enough distance. The thing with me is I love the shape of the light but for some reason I have it in my head, the beam profile of the 500 lumen one seems to be more suited to the shape of the light. Just my personal opinion and thoughts. They're both great lights but I was a little disappointed with my newer one just because it isn't as an aggressive thrower beam profile.


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## desert.snake (Apr 10, 2019)

One of my friends got interested in this lantern. He asked me to know from the owners, can this defender normal work on high level from 1 * 16650? He has a body Malkoff MDC Bodyguard 18650 and he thinks to put there the head of this defender. But there is a possibility that it will not work from 3.7 V, because the old revision from 500 lm (or 600?) did not turn on on 16650 battery.


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## SoCalLumen (Aug 26, 2019)

I recently purchased the Surefire E2D Defender 1000/5 and it's an amazing flashlight. The build quality is next to done and the output is incredible. I keep this on my belt and use a modified Maglite for larger search areas, but this thing does everything I need perfectly. The 5 lumens comes in really handy when filling in some paperwork. 

Some users don't like the crenulated bezel, but I like it and have used it in the past with good results.


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## thermal guy (Oct 19, 2019)

Does this look legitimate to you all?

Yep she was. 😁


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## thermal guy (Oct 25, 2019)

So I’m mainly a Malkoff guy now although I do have many SF. I picked up this light kinda on a whim just to check it out. First I find it pretty much a Special purpose light.Always high first. Nothing I could use for EDC. But the beam and more so the output is highly impressive. This thing is at the very least as bright as my M91! I’m sure it won’t hold that level for to long but for a tactical application it’s probably ideal. I like it but not sure where or if it fits into my needs. Not a bad light tho. Just my 2 cents.


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## vadimax (Oct 28, 2019)

desert.snake said:


> One of my friends got interested in this lantern. He asked me to know from the owners, can this defender normal work on high level from 1 * 16650? He has a body Malkoff MDC Bodyguard 18650 and he thinks to put there the head of this defender. But there is a possibility that it will not work from 3.7 V, because the old revision from 500 lm (or 600?) did not turn on on 16650 battery.



This one works OK, but not at 1000lm, of course. It emits something like 500-600lm.


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## Tachead (Jan 1, 2020)

Can anyone compare the tint & CCT between the different models/generations of this light(200, 500, 600, & 1000lumen)? Thanks. 

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## thermal guy (Jan 1, 2020)

I can’t comment on any of that sorry and hate to change topics here but can or has anyone done a current draw with there light on two primaries? Mine was pulling quite a bit an am wondering if they are all like this.


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## Mr. LED (Jan 2, 2020)

It is expected to pull quite a bit to achieve the 1000 lumens. At least for the EDCL2-T it pulls a lot, to the point of warming up the batteries. What are the numbers you got?


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## thermal guy (Jan 2, 2020)

1.7 -1.8 amps Off of 2X123’s. Considering 1.5 amps continual is max that’s recommend for 123 primaries I’m not sure it’s a good thing. I know the risk of anything going wrong is slim but you would think that a big old company like that should know better then to push it that hard just to get the output.Its a good light and dam if it doesn’t have the throw and beam I love but I gifted it away with the warning to only use 16650 in it of course. I was more concerned with it failing on me then anything else.


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## Mr. LED (Jan 2, 2020)

If I’m not mistaken, it’s in the same ballpark as the EXCL2-T. A lot of people are afraid to use CR123 on those for longer periods of time, they get really warm. But at least until now we haven’t heard any incidents.


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## Tachead (Jan 2, 2020)

Like I said before, don't sweat it guys and just use your lights. You probably take far more risk getting into your vehicle every morning(or even leaving your house for that matter). It's kind of funny as SF is marketed mainly towards people who routinely put their lives at risk yet some seam scared of a couple of CR123's lol. I am sure SF thoroughly tests their products(especially considering its target market) as they don't want a lawsuit nor the bad publicity of an incident. Worst case scenario you get a couple of light burns and SF buys you a new house lol.

Use & abuse them folks, that's what they are designed for and the reason for the high pricetag. 

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## thermal guy (Jan 2, 2020)

Oh trust me I have said for years that issues with primary 123’s are a million to one that something bad will happen. The high current draw was only one reason I got rid of it.


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## Tachead (Jan 2, 2020)

thermal guy said:


> Oh trust me I have said for years that issues with primary 123’s are a million to one that something bad will happen. The high current draw was only one reason I got rid of it.


Yep, not to mention even if the batteries vent(I would suspect closer to one billion or even trillion to one), I would guess it would just pop the switch boot and vent through that(it's not like SF uses a sealed aluminium body with no weak points).

Please could you tell us the other reasons you got rid of it as it may help some with their buying decisions. Thanks TG[emoji106].

Also, I'm still looking for a comparison of the different models tints and CCT's if anyone has owned any of them to compare. Thanks guys. 

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## thermal guy (Jan 2, 2020)

Well first surefire makes a great light so I’m not trying to start anything here but as you asked. The high current draw was an issue. Not because I thought it was dangerous but because that’s how they get 1000 lumens out of there lights. Other companies do this without having to push the batteries hard to get the results. Second was build quality. I have quite a few SF lights as well as another manufacturer that I’m rather fond of and When I compare the lights side by side there really was no comparison. I’m sure it’s a pretty rugged light but wall thickness bezel thickness and heft was just not there for me.


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## LTBL777 (Jan 2, 2020)

Tachead said:


> Like I said before, don't sweat it guys and just use your lights. You probably take far more risk getting into your vehicle every morning(or even leaving your house for that matter). It's kind of funny as SF is marketed mainly towards people who routinely put their lives at risk yet some seam scared of a couple of CR123's lol. I am sure SF thoroughly tests their products(especially considering its target market) as they don't want a lawsuit nor the bad publicity of an incident. Worst case scenario you get a couple of light burns and SF buys you a new house lol.
> 
> Use & abuse them folks, that's what they are designed for and the reason for the high pricetag.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk



I say AMEN -


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## dan05gt (Jan 3, 2020)

Surefire batteries also have built in heat and fault protection according to their website so as long as you use their batteries, it seems highly unlikely you will have any issues with the batteries. The batteries have a warning not to heat above 212F, which I seriously doubt it ever gets close to in use in any of their flashlights, so again it seems hard to imaging having any sort of issue. In an actual application, I would think their heat protection kicks in way before then.


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## Tachead (Jan 3, 2020)

thermal guy said:


> Well first surefire makes a great light so I’m not trying to start anything here but as you asked. The high current draw was an issue. Not because I thought it was dangerous but because that’s how they get 1000 lumens out of there lights. Other companies do this without having to push the batteries hard to get the results. Second was build quality. I have quite a few SF lights as well as another manufacturer that I’m rather fond of and When I compare the lights side by side there really was no comparison. I’m sure it’s a pretty rugged light but wall thickness bezel thickness and heft was just not there for me.


No problem, we should all be able to discuss the pros & cons of a light or brand civilly like mature adults(although I know that doesn't always happen around here[emoji16]). Yep, they are definitely pushing the limits of 2 x CR123's(I think any light pushing 1000+lumens off that fuel are). I think the size may limit driver size too. They are 2 favorite companies of mine too(if the other one is the one I'm thinking of[emoji6]). I think the wall & bezel thickness is more of a design feature though. The E-Series was designed to be super small and light while still being durable and packing a punch(it really was all the rage back in the day as I'm sure you know). You have to go up to the P/Z/G/C Series to get the original beefier body/bezel(yet still definitely not as beefy as some companies).

Like I said over in the Malkoff threads, I think we all need to keep in mind the history and lineage of SF. They invented much of what we have in the lighting world today and even the stuff they did nots lineage can often be traced back to their ideas. They are also arguably by far the most battle and time tested company on the market. Their lights have been thoroughly tested on battlefields around the world by a number of governments LEO, MIL, Government Agencies etc. They passed these tests with flying colours and are still actively deployed today(they are one of the only light companies in the world that's lights have NSN numbers too).

Then of course we need to look at our "actual" needs and personal use requirements vs. wants. I am as guilty as the next guy of enjoying finding the best built, toughest, and coolest ideas. But, from a durability standpoint, I really think there is an extremely small few of us that actually need or take advantage of the full durability even SF offers, let alone companies like Elzetta, Malkoff, etc. Now, that's not to say we should ever stop buying these awesome beasts[emoji16]. 

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## thermal guy (Jan 3, 2020)

SF definitely started a lot of traits that we see in other lights today. I really like the older ones the best though. They just feel more solid not sure why or if that’s even the case.Im more of an outdoors guy so when they stopped making lights for that category I really lost interest. But I still have quite a few and ya there tougher then one really needs.


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## Tachead (Jan 3, 2020)

thermal guy said:


> SF definitely started a lot of traits that we see in other lights today. I really like the older ones the best though. They just feel more solid not sure why or if that’s even the case.Im more of an outdoors guy so when they stopped making lights for that category I really lost interest. But I still have quite a few and ya there tougher then one really needs.


Yeah, I agree, they are not as nice as they used to be. The older bodies have a nice aggressive knurling that is better then the new ones, I miss that. They also don't have that internal coating either. Many of their new lights don't interest me either unfortunately. There are some highlights still though, I'm pretty impressed with the EDCL-1T in particular. I never owned any of the "gas pedal" lights back in the day and it's definitely a unique interface. It also has amazing regulation and output for 1 x CR123/16340 as well as an interesting beam profile.

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## Tachead (Mar 8, 2020)

Does anyone have a runtime graph of this light on primaries and/or a 16650? Thanks[emoji106]. 

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## desert.snake (Feb 21, 2021)

So, e2d 1000/5 has arrived. Now I myself have learned something that none of the owners wanted to talk about.


The button does not look the same as on old revisions, the base of the spring looks wider, the spring is more powerful and seems to be tinned or galvanized, the petals are also not copper, but something white, maybe tinned, I don’t count on silver, but you have to look, it suddenly starts to darken, it would be nice. The ring holding the button's elastic band is filled with something black and hard, squeezed out dried droplets are visible.


The XP-L diode, the shade is not too green, a pleasant yellow-green. Installed almost in the center, on the luminous image of TIR you can see the edge of the square area of ​​the LED, it reflects the light reflected from TIR in the form of a strip, and on the other side the reflection of the cut of the dome of the diode is larger than the others. The result of this is clearly visible in the picture on the bathtub (last photo), one side of the transition zone around the hotspot is, as it were, torn apart and it all resembles a month, but this is only from a close distance, from 1.5 meters and beyond it is not noticeable.

With a more accurately centered diode, the beam will be perfect!

It is no more long-range than the older version with 200 lumens and XR-E, about the same, but I like it, very useful beam for distances up to 20-25 meters in my conditions of use, in the presence of ambient road lighting.

The clip sucks, too thin and flimsy, doesn't press tightly, I think it will break. A clip like Tactician's would fit well here, it is stronger there.



Almost a flood, close to 20 degrees hotspot, but a smaller, sometwhere between 15 and 20, later I need to measure it with a ruler more precisely on a wall 4-5 meters away and count.

update - I'm a blind chicken, why did I think about 15-20 degrees? According to the measurements, the hotspot is about 10 degrees. At a distance of 2.2 m from the wall, the hotspot takes 40 cm. 






It eats everything, even 1 * 123, but they are very short-lived.




So I measured it - first the battery, the current in the upper and lower, then relative lux** in the strong and weak mode (** I'm not sure if I stood exactly 1 meter and in general luxmeter was lying a little at an angle to me) ::


1 * 16650 - 0.6 / 0.03 A
4600
80


2 * 16340 - 1.75 / 0.02 A
9000
80


2 * 123 - 2 / 0.02 A
8200
80


1 * 123
does not ignite if <2.9 V
if> 2.9 V - it burns until it drops to 2.9, and in the strong mode there is some regular change in brightness, similar to a heartbeat, the weak one simply flickers with a higher frequency and irregularly, i.e. for lovers of defenseless 1 * 16340/16650 this can be considered both a bonus and a curse - it will not suck them out, but will most likely be cut out by ~ 2.9V, as with 1 * 123. How unexpected this will happen, I have not yet tested.


I will measure the operating time and stepdowns with different batteries later.


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## carrot (Feb 23, 2021)

Desert snake, thanks for those measurements. Were you also able to check the lux on 2x123?

I’m wondering just how much output you lose with the fully charged lithium ion 16650 vs the disposables.


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## desert.snake (Feb 25, 2021)

vadimax said:


> This is weird, but might have some scientific explanation. Surefire prefers to stay at the same cd/m2 level while going up with lm level:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Truly. EB1 300 lm seems to have XP-G2? EB1 200 lm has XT-E inside, very focused beam is obtained, apparently he is knocked out of the line.

Checked with a luxometer at a distance of 170 cm (+/- 3 cm) from the wall. Distance is constant, the lights are on the edge of the table in the same place, the table and the wall do not move relative to each other. +/- 3 cm caused by not being sure of my ruler. I took Novatac 120 as a reference.

530 - novatac 120 lm
1340 - 16650 e2d 1000 lm
3310 - 2*123 e2d 1000 lm
3850 - 1*123 eb1 200 lm

EB1 with 200 lumens due to the almost absence of spill looks like an LEP and more long-range than the 1000 lumen version.



carrot said:


> Desert snake, thanks for those measurements. Were you also able to check the lux on 2x123?
> 
> I’m wondering just how much output you lose with the fully charged lithium ion 16650 vs the disposables.



Checked again on fresh batteries. I don’t know how much in power, but in lux it looks like ~2.5 times weaker (40% of 100%), also 16650 weaken faster in the cold than they would in the warm season.


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