# Armytek Prime Pro



## shelm (May 14, 2013)

ArmyTek said:


> Yes, you are right. We cancelled Smart series because they are almost the same as Prime Pro series.
> So, Prime series will be produced instead of Smart one.


















Maximal light output: *340 lumens*
LED: Cree *XM-L2* U2
LED Tint: Cool White 5500K
Optics: TIR-optics
Stabilization of constant brightness regardless of frost and low battery voltage: FULL
Protection of electronics by compounding it in aluminum capsule: YES
Impact Resistance: *10m*/33ft
Water submersible: *30m*/33yd
Active thermal management of LED and electronics: YES
Built-in high temperature indication: YES
Built-in low battery indication: YES
Indication of battery voltage: YES
Removable clip of stainless steel: NO


For full specs please see Armytek Smart A1 webpage.
340 lumens on *1x Eneloop AA*?? That beats the *280 lumens* of the *Zebralight SC52* 

So what are the main differences? *ggg*



















"_Are you looking into buying the Prime A1 Pro?_" 
​


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## tjswarbrick (May 14, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I wasn't. Thanks. Thanks a lot.


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## wings400 (May 14, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I think it will rock on a 14500 :thumbsup:

When you look at the narrowest part, having in mind that it is a AA light, the rest is pretty thick, like a CR123A light


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## CarpentryHero (May 14, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

How long till available ?


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## Stereodude (May 14, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I bet it's not 340 lumen with 1x AA Eneloop. I'd bet that's with a 14500.


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## amanichen (May 14, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

...or 340 emitter lumens, which is easily 280 after a 20% reflector and window loss. The light is listed as pre-production anyway - I think it's best to wait till it comes out and wait for an independent set of measurements.


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## Mr Floppy (May 14, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



Stereodude said:


> I bet it's not 340 lumen with 1x AA Eneloop. I'd bet that's with a 14500.



It is entirely possible to get 340. The max 1AA driver that I've seen advertised, is supplying 900mA at the emitter. Assuming they managed to do this or get close, that would mean around 375 lumens at the emitter. With the TIR optics loss, 340 is achievable. 

But given that the specs say the "Maximal" output is 340, I'm with you in thinking that's with a 14500


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## shelm (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Can someone maybe ask the company about the 340 lumens?


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## kj2 (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



CarpentryHero said:


> How long till available ?



Should come June/July for what I know.


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## easilyled (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

For any primary Alkaline/NimH AA to provide a constant 900ma, they would drain extremely quickly because their low Voltage is so much lower than the Vf of the XM-L2.

Therefore even if 340 lumens out the front is theoretically possible, it couldn't possible stay at that output for more than a few minutes.

In my opinion its much more sensible to settle on a realistic output from these cells that can be maintained for a reasonable length of time, _especially_ considering that 340 lumens is not much brighter than 140 lumens to the human eye.


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## A10K (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Armytek almost always quotes output in emitter lumens. The Predator Pro's overdriven XPG-2 is 670/640 emitter lumens.
Since this will be among their first AA lights, its not clear if they're calibrating their numbers to 14500 Li-Ions or NiMH/Alkaline/Lithium. Some manufacturers mix-and-match outputs/modes among different battery types.


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## CarpentryHero (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Even it its in emitter lumens, it sounds like a great light and I'm really impressed that Armytek is stepping its game up with new offerings

thanks KJ2


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## GunnarGG (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



wings400 said:


> I think it will rock on a 14500 :thumbsup:
> 
> When you look at the narrowest part, having in mind that it is a AA light, the rest is pretty thick, like a CR123A light



In the specs it says diam 1 inch, that's normally the diam of 18650 lights.
Pretty beefy light for being AA.

Wonder what the output levels and UI will be like.
Interesting with a TIR AA light.


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## dealgrabber2002 (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Odd looking light. Why the curve at the end? Why bezel up clip?

love the output tho


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## LightWalker (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

since the CR123 version is rated at 620 lumens max I think this light is probably brighter than 340 lumens with 14500 battery.


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## sticktodrum (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

That clip placement seems sub-optimal...


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## LightWalker (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



sticktodrum said:


> That clip placement seems sub-optimal...




I agree.


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## thedoc007 (May 15, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



sticktodrum said:


> That clip placement seems sub-optimal...



Yeah, makes no sense at all to me...hopefully they adjust that before it goes into production. I only own one other AA sized light (the SC52) and I'm looking forward to having this as another option.



GunnarGG said:


> In the specs it says diam 1 inch, that's normally the diam of 18650 lights.
> Pretty beefy light for being AA.



It certainly is, and the specs suggest it isn't just for show. 10 meter drop resistance and 30 meter water resistance seems like a great tradeoff for a little more mass...clearly Armytek has reliability and toughness as priority #1.


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## Croquette (May 16, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I see no official support for the rechargeable Li-ion batteries in their new flashlights...


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## shelm (May 16, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



shelm said:


> Can someone maybe ask the company about the 340 lumens?



sorry for quoting myself 

I asked the Armytek developers and they said that the 340 lumens are LED lumens for 1x Eneloop AA (as correctly stated by me in the thread's title) and that the torch is going to be *brighter on 1x 14500* li-ion. The light is fully regulated on 14500, and more output/specs will be determined and published when the final production copies are available for testing.

And it's true that the driver is potted, similar to HDS Systems Rotary Clicky.

So basically what you have here is an "HDS in AA/14500" format lol :thumbsup:


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## bigchelis (May 16, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Is it safe to assume the current draw from the NiMH AA cell would be 2.5~3A in order to generate 340 lumens from a single AA cell? NiMH can definitely handle that with ease.

bigC


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## nativecajun (May 16, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Meant to reply wiith quote. Moved my reply


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## nativecajun (May 16, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



wings400 said:


> I think it will rock on a 14500 :thumbsup:
> 
> When you look at the narrowest part, having in mind that it is a AA light, the rest is pretty thick, like a CR123A light



This looks like a Novatac/HDS clone in design. Maybe part of the selling tactic is why it is shaped like it is. I wished it did take a CR123.
Actually with the AA design I hope it is lighter than my HDS clicky. It is to heavy for EDC, at least for me. Unless I am going on a serious hike and I know it will be dark before I get back down off the hills here around Chattanooga. Then I bring it "HDS" with my MuyShondt and Quark mini CR2. "THE LIGHT THAT GETS YOU HOME. Love that HDS.


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## sticktodrum (May 16, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I do hope they rethink the clip, or rather have some option to move it. At the $70 price, I'm certainly not beyond picking one up to try out. Sounds pretty cool on paper and if it's that robust a build than it would likely be worth its price just to test out that robustness.


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## dealgrabber2002 (May 17, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

too bad no firefly mode.


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## kreisl (May 20, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



wings400 said:


> When you look at the narrowest part, having in mind that it is a AA light, the rest is pretty thick, like a CR123A light














Quite a bunch of Tank007 lights have this great design near the end of the tail. Yes, HDS lights have it too! The above picture is the AA-extender for certain Tank007 models (TK566/TK568), see Manafont or Dinodirect.


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## petr9999 (Jul 18, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

it seems like they use the same head/electronics for all the new lights, cr123, aa, 2xaa, 18650.. maybie we can get the adapters as spare parts?


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## RIX TUX (Jul 18, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

what is all the fuss about how bright it is? its not available. why worry about it.


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## LEDburn (Jul 19, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



RIX TUX said:


> what is all the fuss about how bright it is? its not available. why worry about it.



"The fuss" was carried out over the course of 3 days, from when the thread started in May. I am assuming this was new news in May and thus got forgotten about quickly as everyone pretty much realised it wasn't yet available and the specs were simply LED lumens which turns out being not so impressive anyway.

Did you follow the thread at all or simply ignored what went on above?

On another, more productive note, I can't wait for this to be released! Will be good to see some more side switch options!!


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## RIX TUX (Jul 19, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



LEDburn said:


> "The fuss" was carried out over the course of 3 days, from when the thread started in May. I am assuming this was new news in May and thus got forgotten about quickly as everyone pretty much realised it wasn't yet available and the specs were simply LED lumens which turns out being not so impressive anyway.
> 
> Did you follow the thread at all or simply ignored what went on above?
> 
> On another, more productive note, I can't wait for this to be released! Will be good to see some more side switch options!!


I checked the website today and still unavailable. Silly to have a lumen war on a light thats not produced yet.


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## markr6 (Jul 19, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



RIX TUX said:


> Silly to have a lumen war on a light thats not produced yet.



Don't get caught saying that around true flashaholics! Wait, you just did


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## petr9999 (Jul 19, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

the armytek wizzard is out, it has very similar circuitry imo


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## Cereal_Killer (Jul 19, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I saw this thread when it first came up but didnt put much thought in it, even at ~$70 I'm VERY interested in this light, I just hope some more US dealers will stock this at a reasonable price than other armytek products. It's crazy how you can't get a better price ordering from a stocking US dealer than you can buyin them from AT and paying $30 shipping from china. 

Take the predator for example, you will pay ~$100-110 from a US stocking dealer or AT direct (including the $30 shipping from their China facility) or you can pick one up on eBay for $85 (coming from china but free shipping). I'd much prefer to support a US dealer but not for $25-30 bucks more. I hope someone will stock these at near the MSRP, not the MSRP plus shipping. Sorry for the rant but that's the one reason I don't own a predator yet.


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## argleargle (Aug 19, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

September draws near. I went to order a warm Smart c2i, a green Predator, a warm white Viking Pro, and Wizard Limited Edition XM-L2 U3 narrow.

No Smart c2i available yet! Combine this with the growing pains of the Wizard, I guess I'll wait to order all at once...

Any word if they're intending to put the XM-L2 U3 in the Smart series?


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## shelm (Sep 22, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

photos added to op :huh:


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## HaileStorm (Sep 22, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I'll put this and the wizard in my wishlist. I believe in Armytek's build quality, my predator is a really tough and durable light. And I like how the circuits are potted.


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## jak (Sep 22, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

That clip makes it look like it would be uncomfortable to carry for left handed folk. Why not mount it opposite of the switch (that is, if it's a fixed position).


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## shelm (Sep 22, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

jak, the light seems to have 3 possible clip locations, spaced at 60 degrees (3*60 = 360°). 1 is exactly opposite to the switch.


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## jak (Sep 22, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



shelm said:


> jak, the light seems to have 3 possible clip locations, spaced at 60 degrees (3*60 = 360°). 1 is exactly opposite to the switch.


Ah, that's better. How did you discover this?


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## shelm (Sep 23, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

i can see 3 notches around the head, can't you?


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## Lomandor (Oct 18, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



dealgrabber2002 said:


> Odd looking light. Why the curve at the end? Why bezel up clip?
> 
> 
> love the output tho







sticktodrum said:


> That clip placement seems sub-optimal...



I don't really use the clips on my flashlights but if I was to use it on this light, it seems to make more sense being placed for bezel up IMO. 

When you think about it, it is more comfortable, less strain on your wrist and the light ends up instantly in an orientation that is ready to use without having to turn the light around in the hand after you take it out of your pocket. Now if it was a tail cap clicky/rotary like a HDS, I would agree with the quotes above, but with a side switch, It seems to make more sense where it is, wright down to where it is placed next to the switch. If the clip was placed opposite the switch, you would have to rotate the light half a turn get to the switch, but being where it is, you can grab and fire away instantly. Even Clint Eastwood would fail to beat you to the trigger. Looks like you even have an option for left or right handers. Well thought clip design IMO.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Oct 26, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I am looking forward to this light. I been looking for a TIR AA light for awhile. Any info on the spec. like modes, lumen, etc...?


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## StorminMatt (Oct 27, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I'm wondering whether this light will ever be sold, or whether it is just vaporware.


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## marcham (Oct 30, 2013)

Any chance we can pre-order this light with the sale going on this week? 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## Dubois (Oct 30, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



marcham said:


> Any chance we can pre-order this light with the sale going on this week?



No. They don't offer pre-order with any lights, and responded in the negative on CPFMP to a similar request regarding the new version of the Wizard.


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## Bronco (Oct 30, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I very much like the looks and the majority of the specs on this one. It's critical though for a light of this size to have an easily accessible firefly mode. Hopefully that will be addressed before the launch - assuming a launch is forthcoming.


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## shelm (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

i updated the op with the new CAD pictures. i'd say that the flatness of the tail surface looks quite bland. Sunwayman would not leave it like that 

the problem or let's say huge production challenge with this structural design is the alignment: Will the pocket clip really be 100% aligned in direction of the side switch?

for this to happen, the production workers must mill the tailcap threads absolutely precisely, or the pocket clip hole threads are drilled when the light is already fully assembled. both methods are awkward or a challenge in terms of production technique.


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## Trevilux (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

:twothumbs I love this design


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## markr6 (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

WOW I forgot about this light. Ancient history!

It looks really nice, almost like a custom made light - not something OEM. I wish the clip was flat to keep it sleek as possible but not a huge deal.


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## shelm (Jan 10, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

So what are the main differences? *ggg*


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## mizjif (Jan 11, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Wow, the prime looks gorgeous! Fingers crossed they release 2xAA model and 18650 models in the prime styling...and fully programmable option too, like the smart.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Jan 13, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

For the Smart A1, what does fully programmable mean? Do I select from a numerous pre-set modes like Quark Tactical?


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## oKtosiTe (Jan 14, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



dealgrabber2002 said:


> For the Smart A1, what does fully programmable mean? Do I select from a numerous pre-set modes like Quark Tactical?


Knowing Armytek, I would guess it goes a bit deeper than that. There are many, many posts with questions about how to program their Viking Pro and Predator Pro lights, because they are relatively complex.


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## markr6 (Jan 14, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



easilyled said:


> For any primary Alkaline/NimH AA to provide a constant 900ma, they would drain extremely quickly because their low Voltage is so much lower than the Vf of the XM-L2.
> 
> Therefore even if 340 lumens out the front is theoretically possible, it couldn't possible stay at that output for more than a few minutes.
> 
> In my opinion its much more sensible to settle on a realistic output from these cells that can be maintained for a reasonable length of time, _especially_ considering that 340 lumens is not much brighter than 140 lumens to the human eye.



Nailed it. I hope this doesn't become the norm among manufacturers. The numbers game is already bad enough with "burst" modes, stepdowns and weak runtimes.


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## Brasso (Jan 14, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I agree. The output is ridiculous. As he said, the human eye can't even tell the difference between those output levels. But, the battery certainly can. All the higher number does is drain the battery faster and satisfy someone's ego. There are so many other more important things to consider in a good light. The total output shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the list. Within a very broad range, it just doesn't matter. 

If a light has to step down to keep from self destructing, it's being driven too hard. Plain and simple. Someone designed it to push out some ridiculous number of lumens for a ridiculously short period of time just to satisfy some novices idea of a "cool" light.


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## shelm (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

In the Spanish language version of the latest edition of the 2014 PDF of the Armytek product catalog there were some major changes to the planned models:

no more SMART models *g*
instead, PRIME and PRIME PRO models *gg*

OMG *GGG*
see for yourself:
http://www.armytek.com/data/ads/catalogue/Catalogue_2014_SPANISH.pdf


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## Fireclaw18 (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Interesting looking light. From the specs it looks much tougher than a typical light. I like that it appears to have good output on both 14500 and AA, and has a side switch.

My biggest concern is it looks rather fat for a single AA light. An inch wide is what I'd expect for an 18650 or CR123 light. to my mind a AA light should be narrower and thinner.

I like that it has fully programmable settings. Wonder what the price is going to be like.


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## twl (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

I agree this looks to be intended to appear like an HDS/Novatac style light.

Unfortunately, they put a silly side switch on it and ruined it. They should have copied the tail switch like the rest of the light.


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## Fireclaw18 (Mar 25, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



twl said:


> I agree this looks to be intended to appear like an HDS/Novatac style light.
> 
> Unfortunately, they put a silly side switch on it and ruined it. They should have copied the tail switch like the rest of the light.



Personally, I like sideswitches for pocket EDC lights. I find it much more secure to reach into a pocket and grip a light with a handshake grip with my thumb on the sideswitch. Holding a light one-handed to use the tailswitch feels much less secure with more risk of dropping the light.

Of course, the switch needs to be recessed enough and stiff enough not to require tailcap lockout in the pocket as sideswitches can be easier to accidentally activate compared to tailcap switches.

Out of my collection of EDC pocket lights, the one that has the best-feeling most secure grip is my Zebralight SC80. Fully-knurled, fits the hand well and has a fairly stiff, but deeply recessed switch. When gripping the light, the thumb naturally falls onto the switch area which funnels the thumb onto the switch.


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## fridgemagnet (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Output is nothing without runtimes.


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## StorminMatt (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Not to mention that, even almost a year after this thread was started, it's STILL vaporware.


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## RIX TUX (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

it will cost $5 with a $10 rebate (but they have not been produced yet)
it will put out 1000 lumens for 8 hours (but they have not been produced yet)
it will turn on by voice commands (but they have not been produced yet)
the light beam will cure cancer (but they have not been produced yet)
it is made from a metal only found on Saturn (but they have not been produced yet)
each one will be personally signed by Albert Einstein (but they have not been produced yet)

all this speculation seems silly


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## groutboy_1 (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

1.) Looks like a whistle!
2.) Fancy cigarette lighter! 
3.) A Marijuana/hash" one-hitter" pipe !
4.) 2014 -as seen on tv. Women's pleasure toy from ronco©!


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## Albinoni1967 (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Is Armytek a Chinese or US company


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## oKtosiTe (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



Albinoni1967 said:


> Is Armytek a Chinese or US company


Canadian. From their website:


> Let’s start from the middle. *Legally Armytek Optoelectronics Inc. was registered by Olga Khanoutin, the company's President,* in the beginning of the 2010*in Ontario, Canada*.





> *In 2009 we have made a strategically right decision to open an own factory in China.* It was made to enable us to provide our customers all over the world with robust and submersible high-tech flashlights at the best prices and in the shortest time. The great characteristics of our lights are for years confirmed by the reviewers’ measurement, opinions of real users and positive feedback of Special Forces.


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## markr6 (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Woah totally forgot about this one! Announced it way too early! No more interest...lost my sale.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Mar 28, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*



markr6 said:


> Woah totally forgot about this one!.



Apparently, they did too.


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## marcham (Apr 8, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Now they're not even listed on the website...


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## shelm (Apr 9, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Is it vaporware or just transparentware?


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## GunnarGG (Apr 9, 2014)

*Re: Armytek Smart A1 (1x Eneloop AA, 340 lumen)*

Now I understand.
The Armytek Smart is still on their website, they just changed to invisibel ink.


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## dealgrabber2002 (Apr 9, 2014)

Do they have different departments working on different series? Then later goes, oops, we made two similar series.


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