# TIGERLIGHT - T-100



## Russianesq (Nov 27, 2007)

*I just got an email introducing the Tigerlight T-100.*

*This is the link to the product description*
http://tigerlightusa.com

*Anyone have any information on this product.*


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## djblank87 (Nov 28, 2007)

Russianesq said:


> *I just got an email introducing the Tigerlight T-100.*
> 
> *This is the link to the product description*
> http://tigerlightusa.com
> ...


 
I got the email to regarding this light. I believe and could be wrong but tis particular light was built with the the primary users being a women. Something to carry in a purse and so on. 

But a small, OC filled light that has red and white LED's in it could be something that would work great for men and women alike.


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## Kremer (Nov 28, 2007)

I just saw the 30min infomercial on NGC.
It looks like the two triggers on the grip are for the light function, lower trigger alternates between low level and utility red and white LED's, the upper trigger selects 100 lumen LED momentary and strobe. The OC button is on the thumb under a flip up lid on the top, like the big TL. It appears the thing runs on 2x123's. I think I heard it holds 1/2oz of spray. The drama is a little overkill, but it gets the point across. I think the best parts are where Teig is explaning the light and waving it around showing how fast it is to flip through the functions, with everything mostly hidden in your hand, and all three buttons under your fingers nicely. It looks like there's a wrist strap or something that's pretty beefy, to keep it from getting knocked away from you. 

$89.85 + s/h

~Dougk

EDIT: I'm really interested in what the 'series 2 TL' has to offer also.


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## djblank87 (Nov 28, 2007)

Kremer said:


> I just saw the 30min infomercial on NGC.
> It looks like the two triggers on the grip are for the light function, lower trigger alternates between low level and utility red and white LED's, the upper trigger selects 100 lumen LED momentary and strobe. The OC button is on the thumb under a flip up lid on the top, like the big TL. It appears the thing runs on 2x123's. I think I heard it holds 1/2oz of spray. The drama is a little overkill, but it gets the point across. I think the best parts are where Teig is explaning the light and waving it around showing how fast it is to flip through the functions, with everything mostly hidden in your hand, and all three buttons under your fingers nicely. It looks like there's a wrist strap or something that's pretty beefy, to keep it from getting knocked away from you.
> 
> $89.85 + s/h
> ...


 

I have only herd that there was a Series 2 coming out soon but do not know anything at all about it. Kremer do have any information regarding the Series 2?


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## Kremer (Nov 28, 2007)

Nope, only the picture on the website, it looks to be about the same size and configuration as the original, I diddn't see a gold ring, and the finish appears more matte, maybe a rubberized coating? I think I may have glimpsed it in the infomercial once or twice. Maybe js or Michael will be able to post information on both lights for us 
~Dougk


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## djblank87 (Nov 28, 2007)

Kremer said:


> Nope, only the picture on the website, it looks to be about the same size and configuration as the original, I diddn't see a gold ring, and the finish appears more matte, maybe a rubberized coating? I think I may have glimpsed it in the infomercial once or twice. Maybe js or Michael will be able to post information on both lights for us
> ~Dougk


 
I would like to see a nice, bright LED in there pumping out just a huge amount of lumens but we will see. I was wondering if Jim was going to post any news about this, maybe he has to wait until it is out before anything is said. :thinking:


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## BrightParrot (Jan 8, 2008)

According to UPS, my T-100 should be arriving on Friday!! :twothumbsIf anyone would like me to, I'd be glad to give it a quick review....


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## ajairlines (Jan 8, 2008)

Hi BrightParrot:

Yes, I'd like to see your review of the T-100 when you get the chance. I own a Tigerlight Gold and keep it with me when I'm out at night walking my dogs. Bright light with a "bite" if necessary.

A.J.


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## Kremer (Jan 8, 2008)

Please don't spray yourself as part of the review, unless you find it necessary for completeness. :devil:  :mecry: :thumbsup:


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## BrightParrot (Jan 8, 2008)

Kremer said:


> Please don't spray yourself as part of the review, unless you find it necessary for completeness. :devil:  :mecry: :thumbsup:


Note to self: Find gullible freind to help complete review


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## js (Jan 8, 2008)

The T100 runs from a single 123, I believe.

TigerLight was supposed to send me one of these to review, but they didn't, unfortunately. I'm rather short on cash right now, so I'm not going to buy one this month. Thus, unless TigerLight sends me one, I won't review this until at least February. However, I definitely WILL be reviewing it at some point.

I can tell you that from my conversations with Eric and Michael and Randy, that it uses a single 123 and a K2 emiter and has multiple levels via a PWM controller circuit. Plus there are the extra LED's and switch positions mentioned, and, of course, the OC spray (which is why the light looks like a 2 123 setup).

I'm sorry I didn't just buy this light back when it was first available because then I would have a review up by now. But I didn't.

Ah, well, as I said, I will review the light at some point.

As for the series 2 TigerLight, the biggest change is the lack of the gold ring. Other than that it's pretty much identicle to the first series. Some minor things have been changed that needed to be addressed, but it's transparent for most users.


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## BrightParrot (Jan 8, 2008)

js said:


> I'm sorry I didn't just buy this light back when it was first available because then I would have a review up by now.


I dunno about that.... I ordered mine on black friday, but after talking to Eric, apparently there were issues with the fullfilment house... 

But the good news is, they have started shipping!!:thumbsup:


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## smokelaw1 (Jan 8, 2008)

The website still seems to say "coming next week" though...or at least it did this morning. 
I still intend to buy one of these for my wife when she walks the dog.


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## BrightParrot (Jan 8, 2008)

smokelaw1 said:


> The website still seems to say "coming next week" though...or at least it did this morning.
> I still intend to buy one of these for my wife when she walks the dog.


That's the main Tigerlight site - it's been next week for a while now. You have to go off of the TigerlightUSA site for the T-100's at the moment.


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## smokelaw1 (Jan 9, 2008)

BrightParrot said:


> That's the main Tigerlight site - it's been next week for a while now. You have to go off of the TigerlightUSA site for the T-100's at the moment.


 
Many thanks.


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## woodrow (Jan 11, 2008)

I look forward to the review...a K2? I may need to be convinced.


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## Federal LG (Jan 11, 2008)

Defense ?

I think I prefer my Spyderco Military


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## BrightParrot (Jan 11, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Defense ?
> 
> I think I prefer my Spyderco Military


...I can see that, but knowing my luck, I'd come across the one mugger who would think he could "take me" and of course, I'd have to prove him wrong...


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## Russianesq (Jan 25, 2008)

*video of the new T-100*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXg-j6MEZc


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## OceanView (Jan 25, 2008)

Russianesq said:


> *video of the new T-100*


Interesting. I hadn't thought of it until this guy mentioned it, but it's a metal-bodied light. I guess I just assumed it would be a polymer light. 

And it looks like a handful, even in a guy's hand.


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## Lightraven (Jan 26, 2008)

Pepper spray is useful but far less effective than most people believe. I had a gun shop clerk tell me OC would put a guy on the ground screaming. Uhh. . .no.

People don't enjoy having pepper spray, powder or foam in their face, but the only involuntary reactions are stinging eyes, runny nose and breathing irritation if inhaled. One or both eyes may close, but most of the time, the person can still see, run or fight.

Pepper spray is a good thing to have, in addition to other weapons.


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## Patriot (Jan 26, 2008)

Lightraven said:


> Pepper spray is useful but far less effective than most people believe. I had a gun shop clerk tell me OC would put a guy on the ground screaming. Uhh. . .no.
> 
> People don't enjoy having pepper spray, powder or foam in their face, but the only involuntary reactions are stinging eyes, runny nose and breathing irritation if inhaled. One or both eyes may close, but most of the time, the person can still see, run or fight.
> 
> Pepper spray is a good thing to have, in addition to other weapons.



+1 to that. It's better than nothing but pepperspray marketing irks me because it rarely portrays reality. 

There are two things that I don't like about this device;
1)Unless the guy's hands in the video are really small, this thing looks like quite a fist full. It's not going to be easy to conceal from what I can see.

2)What I would consider being the greater of the two faults of T-100 is that you take the light off the target in order to fire the pepperspray. I really don't care for that arrangement at all. Depending on how dark it is, that could be a major concern. You really need a certain amount of light to be able to steer that stream onto a vulnerable part of the target. Additionally, in order to quickly aim and fire the pepper you'd have to walk around in the overhand hold...well who goes for a walk like that? You'd have to reposition the light to fire the pepper, if you carry a flashlight like most human beings do. Frankly the concept is a bit clumsy imo. I would much prefer a pepper light that sprayed co-axial with the beam.


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## 270winchester (Jan 26, 2008)

the original tigerlight has the same set up.

the idea is to shine the light, causing the adversary to get hit by unexpected light, closes eye and lose night vision, then you move the light away, forcing the assailant to open his eyes wider than before trying to gain visual, then you hit him with the OC

if you keep a light on the perp, his eyes will remain shut or at least squinting, rendering the OC less effective.

the effectiveness of OC is a whole other can of worms.



Patriot36 said:


> 2)What I would consider being the greater of the two faults of T-100 is that you take the light off the target in order to fire the pepperspray. I really don't care for that arrangement at all. Depending on how dark it is, that could be a major concern. You really need a certain amount of light to be able to steer that stream onto a vulnerable part of the target. Additionally, in order to quickly aim and fire the pepper you'd have to walk around in the overhand hold...well who goes for a walk like that? You'd have to reposition the light to fire the pepper, if you carry a flashlight like most human beings do. Frankly the concept is a bit clumsy imo. I would much prefer a pepper light that sprayed co-axial with the beam.


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## DocArnie (Apr 5, 2008)

So... where are the reviews?

I can only find these TV-ads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvlsN7Yd51E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGwQzUmhrJI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol7gkb1EkWs

But I can't take them seriously. It doesn't even allow me to make a pre-judgement of this product. It's only "blablabla buy this ULTIMATE SD-tool or you'll die blablabla". Can't blame them, that's what TV-spots are all about.
Though it gives me a bad feeling when the badguys in staged situations collapse immediately after being sprayed, while videos from REAL situations often show, that the badguy doesn't seems to notice the stuff in his face for a few moments. Sometimes there is no reaction at all. 
Also, you see people in these ads who spray someone at such a close distance, that I couldn't rule out that they'd be affected as well, especially when they haven't experienced pepperspray themselves before.

How are the materials? Can the device be used for beating someone on the head without breaking? How bright is the flashlight really?
Has anyone tried it?
Why would it be better than a normal flashlight and a seperate pepperspray?

BTW, why would I need a strobe? Seriously.


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## phreeflow (Apr 6, 2008)

270winchester said:


> the original tigerlight has the same set up.
> 
> the idea is to shine the light, causing the adversary to get hit by unexpected light, closes eye and lose night vision, then you move the light away, forcing the assailant to open his eyes wider than before trying to gain visual, then you hit him with the OC
> 
> ...



You bring up some good points. How effective was the original tigerlight and was it widely used by law enforcement?


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## eyeeatingfish (May 18, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> +1 to that. It's better than nothing but pepperspray marketing irks me because it rarely portrays reality.



The marketing is often based on statistics from the field. Pepper spray can be very effective though it does not work on everyone. Some people who are high or drunk have dulled senses of pain and it is not as effective. Heck there are even some cases where tasers didnt stop a guy. Pepper spray does make it hard to see if it gets in your eyes. You can make your way around by strobing but it would be hard to chase someone. The pepper spray allows you to run away with a much better chance. Some guys know what pepper spray feels like and they will give up at the sight of it. Ive seen a whole school bus emptied from just a second of pepper spray.
Its not a miracle non lethal weapon but I wouldnt say its as bad as you put it.


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## Robocop (May 18, 2008)

There is a reason most departments are going to the Taser and after 11 years of police work I have yet to see a Taser fail to stop an attacker if deployed correctly.....I have seen pepper spray fail many times.

I have often wondered if Tiger Light will eventually offer some type of high power duty light with Taser technology. If anyone could pull it off it would be TL as their lights are really some of the best out there.


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## FILIPPO (May 18, 2008)

prefer a .45....

no offense.


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## eyeeatingfish (May 20, 2008)

Robocop said:


> There is a reason most departments are going to the Taser and after 11 years of police work I have yet to see a Taser fail to stop an attacker if deployed correctly.....I have seen pepper spray fail many times.
> 
> I have often wondered if Tiger Light will eventually offer some type of high power duty light with Taser technology. If anyone could pull it off it would be TL as their lights are really some of the best out there.



The taser my department uses has a light but its not high power. They could of course put a higher power light on it.
Our department is pretty conservative with the taser use. You can only shoot someone with a taser if he/she is actively aggressive towards you. Not if they are walking away or refusing to listen. Pepper spray you can use in that case.


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## mteig (Aug 26, 2009)

I know this is an old post, but I just have to clarify a few things. Although I understand the reason for the misunderstanding, it is hard to hear it repeated over and over. For those who don't know, I will state right up front that I am Michael Teig, the CEO of TigerLight. I have always enjoyed the comments and analysis of many extremely intelligent individuals on CPF. Some of our best upgrades have resulted from input from CPF members. 

However, when it come to discussions on the effectiveness of pepper spray and the TigerLight there is a BIG problem and people are being given terribly inaccurate information. There is NO CORRELATION WHATSOEVER between the effectiveness of a can of pepper spray and a TigerLight. None.

And as for the comment from one post that he could only find a few You Tube videos and no solid review, you are not looking very hard. Not only do we have reviews on our web site, a PHD from Cal State conducted an independent study at Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department with five hundred officers over six months. The study results are downloadable from nearly every page on our web site. In the study, the TigerLight Series I achieved an unprecedented 96% stop rate on 147 subjects, an average of 2.6 subjects at a time. No non-lethal weapon has ever come close to doing that. In fact, at the same time, the Cobra Stun Light was also tested with 500 officers. The results did not even come close to those achieved by the TigerLight. This wasn't a lab study. This was a highly organized, well documented, independent study.

These results are dramatically different that what they had been achieving with any other non-lethal, including their department pepper spray. There is a reason TigerLight has active duty, high ranking military and law enforcement personnel in its infomercial endorsing the product. When is the last time anyone saw active duty Colonels and Lt. Colonels, police officers and trainers on TV endorsing a product. I believe the answer to that would be...never.

A couple years ago I received a call from a trainer at the academy in Passaic County, New Jersey. He called to question me as to what we were putting in the TigerLight. He was actually concerned that it was too potent and outside their allowed specifications and that if they ended up in a court case and it was discovered the officers were using unapproved sprays with a higher potency, it could put them in jeopardy, legally. The reason he was concerned is because their belt carried spray had a 50% stop rate, which they attributed to the high use of PCP in that particular area, but the TigerLight had not had a single failure to stop in over a year. After two and a half years, I spoke with him again and the results were still the same.

There are a number of reasons why this is the case. Yes, we use great sprays. Yes, we accelerate the sprays. Yes, there is the element of surprise. Yes, a very high percentage of the cases in which the TigerLight is used, neither belt spray or any other weapon would have been able to be used because of the time to get those other tools off the belt. All those things are contributing factors, but the number one reason is that the bad guy does not have a chance to hold his breath, turn his head and shield his face. Out of those, the breath holding is by far the most significant factor. When a guy sees someone come up with a can of spray, he may not be able to avoid the spray but he will instinctively hold his breath and the guy on meth or PCP that might be able to fight through the pain, because he isn't feeling any pain, can't fight through the suddenly difficulty getting air. It is like getting in a fight. You can get you teeth knocked out, your nose broken, your eye blackened and keep fighting, but when you get the wind knocked out of you, its over.

There are other factors including the enhanced neurological impact due to sudden impact syndrome when you don't see something coming and don't have a chance to prepare mentally for it, but the fact in all this is that the effectiveness of a TigerLight does not compare to a can of pepper spray in any way. A Cesna 150 and an F18 are both planes, but they don't do the same thing just because they both fly.

We have spent many years and millions of dollars getting a GREAT, REVOLUTIONARY product to the market to make officers jobs safer, to help them be more effective and to help them return to their families at night and it does the same thing for you, your wife, mother, daughter and son. It has not been easy. In fact, it has been terribly difficult and many have sacrificed much to make it happen, so please, give it the credit it deserves. I'm sure if it weren't for the fact we are using pepper spray instead of some obscure, new, high tech chemical nobody has heard of, it would be easier and the results of the TigerLight would be big news, plastered all over the airwaves, but because it has good ol' pepper spray in it, everyone thinks they know what it does.

We just want the truth to be known and the truth is that it is the best, most effective non-lethal weapon in the world. We are NOT saying it needs to replace other devices like "stun devices", because there are times when such devises might be a more appropriate use of force, but it should definitely replace ordinary flashlights. It makes ZERO sense for any officer to have a flashlight in their hand when they can have a better flashlight and an incredibly effective non-lethal weapon in the same hand. 

As a side note, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency just completed 2 years of human effects testing on the TigerLight at Aberdeen Proving Grounds at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. We donated nearly $100,000 in equipment for the test at Los Angeles and the results are easily obtainable. For example, the TigerLight and the spray in it that was used in the LA study were lab tested for heat up to 212 degrees and in rapid decompression at 40,000, feet and many other tests. 

Please, give the TigerLight the credit it deserves. It should be in the hand of every police officer, security officer and any military personnel if non-lethal is an option under their rules of engagement. It should also be in the hand of anyone out jogging, walking or going to their car from the mall, or any student (especially female) walking to her car from the library at night, or any other time for that matter. I reference the lady who was recently raped while walking to her car in a downtown, open-air parking lot (not a garage) at four o'clock in the afternoon. She is a probation officer and had a gun on her at the time. I just wish she would have had a T100 in her hand. I reference the two separate cougar incidents, one in which a young lady hiker encounters a cougar on a trail not far from home and was killed and another in which a security guard from the Ant Farm in LA was with four kids and was attacked by a mother cougar and sprayed it with his TigerLight causing it to retreat.

I provide this information in the hope that future discussions on the TigerLight will be more accurate and fairly represent it. The problem when it isn't represented accurately and fairly is that the people who might have been looking into purchasing one for themselves or for others they want to help protect, may be dissuaded by inaccurate information and someone who might have escaped an attempted rape, murder or other assault, won't.


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## brightnorm (Aug 26, 2009)

Michael,

I was an early purchaser of the original Tigerlight (FBOP). It is a superb light and I have never doubted the effectiveness of the OC version for reasons you have mentioned here. I have a couple of questions, not specifically addressed to the T-100.

Can you explain what is meant by “acceleration” of the sprays.

In daytime use the Tigerlight would have to be removed from its holster prior to use in the same fashion (and timing) as a conventional spray canister. In that case is there any reason why it would be more effective physically than the identical spray used in a conventional spray can? 

There have been many posts about pepper spray effectiveness from LEO’s and “civilians”, and general conclusions are often stated. However, I have rarely seen the specific spray mentioned, resulting in sweeping conclusions based on lumping all brands together. 

I’m not aware of any scientifically performed comparison studies of pepper sprays, but Fox 3.2 SHU spray is considered one of the most effective sprays, at least anecdotally, and it is the OC that I have, but have thankfully never had to use. How have you selected the OC available for Tigerlight; have you tested various brands and types within those brands? How would you rate FOX 3.2 compared to other brands?

For OC use late at night I have a small but bright light in my left hand and Fox OC in my right; both are “ready to go” very quickly. I have practiced and still practice possible scenarios in order to drill the required actions into my head in hopes that I might react automatically in a real situation. I will consider the possibility of replacing this approach with the T100, as long as I know that the T100 will be at least as effective, especially in terms of the brand/type of spray that is used.

Brightnorm


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## brightnorm (Aug 26, 2009)

deleted


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## tinyE (Aug 27, 2009)

Well, since the topic has been brought back to life... 

As a Tigerlight fan, I subscribed to this thread when it first posted in hopes of seeing a flurry of discussion about the T100 attributes from those in the community who had ordered one; but no real discussion ever materialized on the board (that I found).

Why did it blow over here with little more than a glancing notice?

Perhaps we decided that a Series I (or II or III) was better because you could also beat someone with it?

I still haven't ruled out buying one, but would like to see where this new discussion goes.


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## Lightraven (Aug 27, 2009)

Sabre Red, one of two brands featured on the Tigerlight website, has a solid reputation and is carried by some very large LE agencies and mine. I've used Sabre Red on at least one suspect.

I find that pepper spray effectiveness is mostly oversold by those with a business interest, or those who have experienced the effects, but never used it in anger against a real bad guy. Real bad guys aren't necessarily easily dissuaded from their course of action. Sometimes, pepper spray works completely, sometimes it works partially, and other times, not at all, at least for armed LEOs attempting arrest. I think brand is a relatively minor factor (suspect toughness and determination being the biggest factor), assuming it's one of the brands in use by large LE agencies that use it against their own officers in training and suspects on a regular basis. Sabre Red is probably as good as anything.


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## Archie Cruz (Aug 27, 2009)

I kinda have a gun to my head to get back to real 'work', but I gather there's a need for a review of this light which I had the privilege of shooting...
http://www.gearninja.com/ADS/TigerLight.html

I will not have the wherewithal to publish a free, full review but here's a quick bullet list with scores.

Functionality - press one button and a light emits at what would be a 90º angle off axis from the axis that the pepper stream issues. Score 5 of 10

Usability - Cognitive effort required to switch from light button to pepper button & from light on axis orientation to pepper stream on axis orientation (under the anticipated duress of a real life threat) horrible! Score 3 of 10

Effectiveness- In a controlled situation, assuming a calm victim and less than intoxicated or drugged out perpetrator. Fair. Score 6 of 10
In a real life situation, with less than 5 seconds to react to a mugging by a drugged out or otherwise out of control perp and the victim is significantly weaker or much more frightened or situationally disadvantaged. Poor. Score 2 or 3 of 10

Weight - Too heavy for pocket carry 6 of 10

Light quality. All the different modes are just more cognitive overhead than are needed and a defender will not be able to rationalize the modes under duress. 5 of 10

Concept - I've seen this pepper spray/light combo before in the mid 80's. I even played with it. 10 of 10


In that iteration (no clue who made it) the light and spray emitted in the same axis. That works for me as it eliminates a degree of cognitive overhead and thus, potential for catastrophic error.

Don't get me wrong. I'd rather have the T-100 than nothing, but I still prefer some other pepper dispensers PLUS a light. If Tigerlight ever want to redesign this with some expert Human Factors assistance + engineering innovation, I'd be delighted to consult. 

Why Michael insists in this 90º incongruousness is beyond me.

Oh! And let's not forget wind issues. Pepper spray will blow back to the defender if the wind is upstream


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## brightnorm (Aug 27, 2009)

Light Raven,

Thanks for that "real world" info.

Brightnorm


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## js (Aug 28, 2009)

Ah, Michael emailed me about this thread and asked me to post his reply to it, but I see that he did it himself. So much the better!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Aug 28, 2009)

FILIPPO said:


> prefer a .45....
> 
> no offense.


*+1!*

There aren't many things that a good ole .45 round won't stop...


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## Kremer (Aug 28, 2009)

I have a series 1 OC model with the cone nozzle (and 2 FBOP's) and Sabre red for it. While I have not fired it with Sabre yet I did get a training can of water to mess with. It is definitely not like a squirt gun or spray bottle. Just a tiny but firm press of the thumb button releases a BLAST from the nozzle that instantly goes 10+ feet. I think this might be the 'accelerate' that Michael is talking about, it REALLY projects the agent with some haste. If I was to be on the receiving end of a blast I don't really see myself being able to brace for it or shield my face, especially with the 'surprise you got sprayed' deployment method of lowering the light and getting blasted.

~Dougk


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## brightnorm (Aug 28, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> *+1!*
> 
> There aren't many things that a good ole .45 round won't stop...


 
Unfortunately, in my city that good ole .45 is stopped by gun control.

Brightnorm


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## Robocop (Aug 29, 2009)

My experience with pepper spray is limited to one brand and that is the Freeze +P and as such when I say I have seen it fail several times this is in my personal experiences only with the brand we are forced to carry.

The video that sold me on the TL was not due to the pepper spray ability however more so for the actual toughness of the light itself. I still remember watching that light be thrown 50 feet in the air with the lamp powered on and landing without failing....amazing light to say the least.

I know many officers who use the TL and it is simply a very tough and reliable light. My dept. will only allow us to carry the Freeze +P brand however if there is a better brand then I can see how my personal experiences with spray could be different.


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## Lightraven (Aug 29, 2009)

Last night, one of our guys sprayed a suspect with Sabre Red, I assume. Then he called for an EMT due to "bad reaction--bleeding from the mouth and nose (!)" Later the EMT qualified officer told me the guy was bleeding slightly from the nose and dripping into his mouth, but "it sounded a lot worse on the radio than it was."


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## Robocop (Aug 30, 2009)

Again it may simply be the brand my Dept. provides however I have seen spray fail several times. When I say fail I do not mean it had no effect at all however it simply did not stop an attacker from advancing. It will almost always shut the eyes and burn however even a half blind criminal can kill you very quickly.

Honestly I believe too many people associate the TL with the ability of the spray. Sure it is most well known as the "Light With the Bite" and as such most people will purchase it simply to have the unique design. The light stands very well on its own merits even if it did not have the spray feature. It is simply a great light regardless of the effect of the spray.

Long ago I actually did not really know that much about the TL however it had an unusual large shape and I really did not like the design. I actually thought the light to be a novelty item being sold on the merits of the spray feature only. When I saw the first one in real life and actually found it to be very well made I began researching it much more.

I found that the light was first designed as a very rugged and dependable light then the spray was added as a bonus. I changed my mind quickly about the TL and it had nothing to do with the spray feature but more so because the light itself is incredible. We could argue all night about the pros and cons of spray however it is very hard to argue the quality of the light itself.


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## mteig (Sep 18, 2009)

Brightnorm

With respect to accelerating the spray, we simply make it come out much faster, much harder. In the case of the T100, the same amount of spray comes out in less than half the time. It puts out twice the volume per second. It gets to the target faster and with more velocity causing the particles to penetrate deeper into the pores and further into the respiratory system. However, this is only a small part of the effectiveness equation. 

Let me ask you (all of you) a question, preceded by a statement of fact. The TigerLight® has a documented 96% stop rate on angry, drugged out, violent, motivated criminals. This wasn't based on anecdotal evidence. This was on 147 real life bad guys on the streets of Los Angeles. This wasn’t one officer. This was 500 officers. If you doubt it, contact the technology exploration division at Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department and ask for Sgt. Brian Muller. Or, you can get a summary of the study off our web site. With these facts in mind, ask yourself why the TigerLight® is so much more effective that pepper spray in a can. I explained why in my last post. Here it is again:

There are a number of reasons why this is the case. Yes, we use great sprays. Yes, we accelerate the sprays. Yes, there is the element of surprise. Yes, a very high percentage of the cases in which the TigerLight is used, neither belt spray or any other weapon would have been able to be used because of the time to get those other tools off the belt. All those things are contributing factors, but the number one reason is that the bad guy does not have a chance to hold his breath, turn his head and shield his face. (Note: All of these things are done in a split second when a subject sees a can of spray.) Out of those, the breath holding is by far the most significant factor. When a guy sees someone come up with a can of spray, he may not be able to avoid the spray but he will instinctively hold his breath and the guy on meth or PCP that might be able to fight through the pain, because he isn't feeling any pain, can't fight through the sudden difficulty getting air. It is like getting in a fight. You can get your teeth knocked out, your nose broken, your eye blackened and keep fighting, but when you get the wind knocked out of you, it’s over.

Brightnorm,

The TigerLight is always in the officer’s hand when approaching a subject. The officer should never have to draw his or her TigerLight from a holster to respond to a subject. In the case of a civilian, there is a high probability the bad guy will see your can of spray, if even for a split second and will instinctively hold his breath, close his eyes and turn away, maybe even shield his face, although he may not get his hand up in time. This split second reaction is what results in the much lower stop rate of the can of spray compared to the TigerLight. If there is no difference, how can we explain the 50% stop rate in Passaic County, New Jersey with their belt carried spray compared to zero failures to stop reported with the Tigerlight? 

With respect to sprays, Sabre Red and Guardian PD are, in our experience, two of the best sprays out there. I think FOX Labs is also a very good spray. The only reason we do not have it available at the moment is because something in it was melting the valve seal and causing leakage so we had to discontinue it for the time being.

Archie,

The key to the TigerLights effectiveness is the fact that you are forced to take the light off the subject when you spray him. That is critical to its effectiveness and is the reason it performed dramatically better than the competitor in the Los Angeles study whose light had pepper spray coming out of the lens. That is a terrible design and has many flaws and drawbacks. That is why the one you saw back in the 80’s failed as well. 

When you are holding the TigerLight in the proper position, you are in a natural fight response position. When attacked, your physiological and psychological responses both assimilate ones natural response to an attack. The hand extends out just like throwing a punch or blocking a blow. This is critical to its effectiveness in real life. It is a large muscle response that does not require thousands of repetitions in order to condition oneself to respond similarly in a high-stress situation. This is incredibly important, especially for civilians who are not constantly training. This is the right design. Spray in the direction of the light is a terrible, ineffective and problematic design. We hope all of our would-be competitors use that design.

With respect to the modes, that is why we have two separate lights in one and the tactical light is under the index finger. If this was not the case and a person had to cycle through modes during an attack, your comment would be very valid, but this is not the case. Even if, under stress, the user squeezes both buttons, the tactical light comes on and it strobes…just what you would want in that situation. The other button is simply for energy saving utility modes so as not to use up the battery unnecessarily when a real bright light is not needed. It is practical. Even the side light locator mode is simply practical. When I was in a dark tent with a bunch of kids in the Wind Rivers of Wyoming with bears all around, it was great when I woke up in the dark and could immediately spot my TigerLight. You will notice that the tactical light always replaces any other light mode when pushed.

The TigerLight’s effectiveness is not up for debate. Its usability and form factor have proven to have exceptional utility. It has performed incredibly well for ten years in the field. Go to our web site and hear what people who have actually used it have to say. None of them got paid to say what they say.

Archie...one more thing. If you can come up with a better design, we'll be happy to use it. I mean that. In the meantime, what we have is the best, most effective non-lethal means of personal protection in the world and that's not an opinion. It is a fact. We have had to spend millions of dollars and ten years proving it, so please, give credit where credit is due.


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## Archie Cruz (Sep 18, 2009)

Hi Michael
RE"Archie...one more thing. If you can come up with a better design, we'll be happy to use it" 
Thanks but after I'm done with the 1/2 dozen patent apps I have to get through PTO already, I may redesign it for myself and then we can talk for sure. We have no interest in marketing stuff, just selling and defending IP.
I had to smirk at the comment about "no debate with respect to usability". My boss would have to differ, but that would be another discussion offline.
Just one piece of research that we did for everyone to chew on. In a cross wind equal to 20mph and a headwind equal to 40mph to the operator, only one brand of pepper delivery system defeated the wind effect to result in an effective hit on the subject at 15'.
Sprays, and to a lesser extent gels, are wonderful tools if all conditions are ideal. But that's the point.Conditions are not always ideal. I'd rather use an umbrella to smack an attacker than suffer a blast of my own spray- thanks to the breeze in the wrong direction.
Some day we'll recruit profiled user testers and run a full blown scenario using all these products. Just need to find the time and money to do it.
Just one other question. I distinctly recall seeing a combo flashlight and pepper spray about 20 years ago at a friends place. Would that have been prior art or was it an early Tigerlight product?


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## mteig (Sep 19, 2009)

Archie,

I have no doubt in my mind that you are a very intelligent individual. No doubt whatsoever. We should talk offline. I'd be happy to talk with your boss. However, there is one thing I want to say and it is the reason I am adamant regarding the effectiveness and practicality of the TigerLight. We all can spend massive amounts of time theorizing, speculating and rendering educated opinions on the merits of the TigerLight, pepper spray, designs, size, weight, materials, lumens, scoville heat units, major capsaicinoid ratings, stream, cone, foam, gel, pava, oc, etc...We can debate about the effects of wind. However, it is like saying we should not wear seat belts because someone drove into the river once and drown because they could not get out of the seat belt. With that reasoning we should remove seat belts and let the other 168,524 (estimated people saved since 1960 by seat belts) die. 

We have made every type of spray available to our users, stream, cone, fog, foam and gel, including all the major brands used by police. By trial and error in many thousands of real life incidents, a TigerLight with a strong cone spray has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt to be the most effective in the highest percentage of incidents. 

So, why are we debating something regarding which the answer has already been amply determined. What does it matter that one type of spray will spray further into the wind, if the vast majority of incidents occur in mild to no wind and at a distance of 2-5 feet and the spray that sprays 15 feet into the wind is not nearly as effective in those situations? 

Sure, if I could predict that I was going to get attacked tomorrow by some guy while facing into a 40 mile per hour wind, then I might load my TigerLight with wind piercing spray, or I might use a wind piercing bullet, but that isn't reality.

Eight years ago we were using 80% stream. Actual results, not theory, opinions and speculation, proved the cone to be the most effective, overall, so now we sell almost 100% cone and that's not because the stream is not available. It is what those who use it most, prefer. 

When we first switched the 500 deputies at LA County Sheriffs Department from stream to cone, there were a few incidents in which deputies got some of their own spray. 

I went to LA with stream and gel in hand and spent four days on the street and in the jail with the officers. They were given the opportunity to use whatever they wanted. However, they all ended up sticking with the cone and making some adjustments to their tactics such as a short burst and move offline rather than stand there and empty the can.

You must also keep in mind that a majority of the sudden, close-proximity, violent encounters in which the TigerLight is so effective, would not have been incidents in which belt spray could have been used. Belt spray is more for premeditated spray situations wherein you have time to get it out of the holder on your belt, index it and spray, not for split second reactions to sudden acts of aggression. That is TigerLight territory.

Please feel free to call me any time to discuss any of this further. I can be reached at Tigerlight.


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## mteig (Sep 19, 2009)

One more comment for all you flashaholics. You really should look at the new TigerLight 600 lumen module for the Series I, II and III Tigerlights. It is absolutely amazing, IMHO. We actually had a CPF member who is very knowledgeable, test it at a very sophisticated lab with some of the best testing equipment and, according to him, it is actually putting out 875 lumens! It has amazing run time. It has strobbing and in the energy saving mode, which is still quite bright and very usable in most situations, I ran it continuously for over 31 hours! I really could not believe it could put out that much light for over 31 hours. It had not gone dead or even dimmed. I just got impatient and turned it off!


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 19, 2009)

I'd like to read about that if it was posted. If it was, I need a little more info to find it.



mteig said:


> One more comment for all you flashaholics. You really should look at the new TigerLight 600 lumen module for the Series I, II and III Tigerlights. It is absolutely amazing, IMHO. We actually had a CPF member who is very knowledgeable, test it at a very sophisticated lab with some of the best testing equipment and, according to him, it is actually putting out 875 lumens! It has amazing run time. It has strobbing and in the energy saving mode, which is still quite bright and very usable in most situations, I ran it continuously for over 31 hours! I really could not believe it could put out that much light for over 31 hours. It had not gone dead or even dimmed. I just got impatient and turned it off!


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