# Be careful with the Ti chips...



## G1K (Feb 21, 2009)

An interesting thing happened today, I was milling a bunch of titanium with a small end mill making very small chips. The chips got all over the front of my shirt. Later, I was using the belt sander to remove a particularly large burr on a ti part, and the bur caught on fire as it parted from the piece. It bounced off the sander table, hit my shirt and almost like fireworks all the little chips on my shirt started catching fire. It was like an expanding bulls eye of little intensely white dots of fire. 

It was very amusing to the guy standing next to me, but I did have to go change my shorts afterward.

Fortunately no damage to my shirt or anything else for that matter.

Just a reminder to be careful.

R


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## wquiles (Feb 22, 2009)

Thanks for the heads-up 

Glad you are OK :twothumbs

Will


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## gadget_lover (Feb 22, 2009)

That has to be one of those moments that are too surreal to believe.

Next time, get a picture, ok? 

Seriously, good to hear that you are un-damaged. 

Daniel


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## PhotonFanatic (Feb 22, 2009)

An unfortunate experience, but why didn't you use a file to remove the burr?


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## PEU (Feb 22, 2009)

happened to me too time ago, unsharp tool, lots of oil impregnated TI shavings, yes its surreal, but I acted fast and splashed everything with water and a rag I found in the way to the water tap...

I still have the burn marks in the floor as a reminder...


Pablo


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## PhotonFanatic (Feb 22, 2009)

Water is the last thing that you want to add to a Ti fire. Fortunately for most home machinists, we don't have huge piles of Ti sitting around, otherwise it could be a disaster.

Best cheap solution for a Ti fire, besides avoiding one in the first place by removing chips on a regular basis, is a bucket of very dry sand, with a scoop already sitting it. :devil:

Fire extinguishers for this type of fire are very expensive, btw.


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## Mirage_Man (Feb 22, 2009)

PhotonFanatic said:


> Fortunately for most home machinists, we don't have huge piles of Ti sitting around.



Hmm, I guess I don't qualify as," most home machinists"?  

This is an old picture when I had my South Bend. That's a rather large storage tote full of nothing but ti chips and swarf. My new machine has just as many chips in the chip pan too.


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## G1K (Feb 22, 2009)

PhotonFanatic said:


> An unfortunate experience, but why didn't you use a file to remove the burr?




Have you ever tried to file a section of work hardened Ti? 

I have, that piece I mentioned above. It would have taken a lot longer to file it down rather than use the belt sander. Plus, there would have been no fireworks show 

R


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## 65535 (Feb 22, 2009)

I've been on fire. I wasn't paying enough attention to my spark trail while cutting grinding/cutting some 3/8" steel stock. Anyways after about 10 seconds of grinding I stop the grinder and notice my shirt is on fire. It was on my left side at my belt line. Luckily cotton burns slow and cool. Always be careful about the spark trail.


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## StrikerDown (Feb 23, 2009)

I've never lit myself off but once a wayward spark from grinding made it's way to the buffing wheel on the other end of the bench. I finished up what I was working on and went in the house. Almost two hours later the wife came home and ran in the house screaming fire in the garage! :candle:

Turned out the buff wheel had smouldered about half way through and filled the garage with smoke! No flame fortunately although it was hot enough to blister the formica bench top! Scarry stuff


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## Torque1st (Feb 23, 2009)

Just another reason to wear nothing but cotton in the shop. Synthetics can go up like a bomb plus they melt and stick to the skin.


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## McGizmo (Mar 13, 2009)

A number of years ago, I was turning down a thin disk of Ti (1/16" thick x 4" diameter) I had a nice ribbon of material going into the chip pan and as I got a bit too aggressive, the ribbon caught fire and like a fuse, I watched the flame run into the chip pan. By the time I got to the halon extinguisher, the fire was over and the only temporary damage was the white spots I saw when I closed my eyes. I had had some chip flames before but not like this. After that one, I took no chances and always had a mister going when I was cutting Ti.

Years ago, I worked with a machinist who had lost his previous job because a fellow machinist in the shop they worked in was lazy about cleaning his chip pan. They were cutting magnesium. The shop burnt down to the ground and everyone lost their job.


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## MWClint (Mar 13, 2009)

Interesting thread.

Will there be any issues working on a very small peice of Ti with a dremel?
from what i'm reading, it sounds like grinding is the easiest way to spark it off. :thinking:


found this document on Ti
http://www.mhims.co.uk/titanium-bible.pdf
sounds like i'm going to go through quite a few bits and will have to try to not concentrate on any one area of Ti for too long.


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## old4570 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hu !! Titanium doing that . I knew magnesium was a problem , but not ti . 
:thinking:


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## 65535 (Mar 13, 2009)

Most metals will burn, magnesium is one of the most popular though. You would be highly unlikely to have any problems with a dremel and really any normal metal.

A dremel doesn't have the power to remove chips from material at a rate high enough to be dangerous. Just mind where the sparks go as they can light other things on fire before they cool off. Titanium dust off a high speed grinder is already burned, hence the bright white light of the sparks.

Btw, sparks from grinding are actually small metal particles burning.


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## McGizmo (Mar 13, 2009)

I believe fire is basically rapid oxidation. I think the titanium chips after sitting around for a while will have enough oxidation on their surface to preclude them from igniting easily, if at all unless subjected to extreme heat. When I got my fires, the surface of the metal I was cutting was hot and the chips thin enough that there was a lot of surface area relative to mass and it was fresh cut and hadn't oxidized yet. I think you have to go our of your way to get a Ti fire going. :green:

I understand that magnesium is much easier to ignite and chips much more likely to burn.

I am surprised that we haven't seen a magnesium flashlight yet but I know I have been more than reluctant to attempt one. I understand it can be anodized and plated and I believe you would have a harder substrate and lighter piece, relative to Al. The primary drawback for me to magnesium is the consideration of how easily it oxidizes and its position way at the bottom of the Nobility scale. It is a poor choice of metal around the ocean as far as I know. 

I would also guess that an event with a lithium battery and magnesium flashlight might be way to bright and hot!!


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## precisionworks (Mar 13, 2009)

> magnesium is much easier to ignite


In school, my machine shop instructor only yelled at me a one time. We got lots of surplus metal to practice with, and the was a large piece of magnesium round stock, probably 6" or 8" diameter, and a couple of feet long. I was happily peeling big spiral curls, as the material is easy to machine - similar feeds & speeds as aluminum. The instructor saw the growing pile of turnings under the chuck, hit the E-stop on the lathe, and used the most colorful words I've ever heard:shakehead


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## McGizmo (Mar 13, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> ..... The instructor saw the growing pile of turnings under the chuck, hit the E-stop on the lathe, and used the most colorful words I've ever heard:shakehead


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## KC2IXE (Mar 14, 2009)

My Uncle (actually 2nd Cousin once removed) was a furnace forman up at Atlas metals in Ontario. The did a LOT of Ti work. He said the day multiple tons of molten Ti cought on fire was "Interesting" - burnem almost al the way through 4 feet of fire brick. The way he described Ti burning "Harder to ignite than Mg, but gives less warning, and burns hotter"


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