# Arc Flashlights 2002



## Gransee (Jan 9, 2002)

Hi!

This is a general discussion thread for Arc flashlights, future products or any other question you would like to post to Arc Flashlight, our distributors, the reviewers, etc.

Some quick facts:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>User "Flashlightguy" is Steve Gibson our National Sales Representative. 
<LI>Our company website is www.arcflashlight.com<LI> The official FAQ is here<LI> Sometimes all of our product names, etc can get a little confusing. We basically make two flashlights, the Arc-AAA and the Arc-LS. All our models come from the LED colors, shell colors, accessories, etc of these two flashlights. 
<LI> The CP forums are privately owned and not affiliated or controlled by Arc flashlight in anyway. Like you, we are guests of the system operators.
[/list]Welcome!

Peter Gransee
President
Arc Flashlight LLC
Mesa, Arizona USA

Legal Disclaimer: We get many suggestions for new flashlight inventions via email, etc. If you want to keep your idea secret or make money from it, do not send it to us or post it here in the forums! All messages posted here and emailed to us are public domain.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 9, 2002)

Greetings, Peter. Happy New Year. Thanks for starting this thread. The other one was getting a bit long. The LS is very nice. It was worth the wait. Well done. Thanks for a fine product: it is now Every Day Carry.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 9, 2002)

Hey guys, have any of you that own the Arc LS tried it with Lithium AA's yet? If so, is there any difference in brightness compared to Alkaline AA's? How do they compare to the 123's? I apologize if this has been covered previously, but I'm just curious.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 10, 2002)

Thank You Peter for those Luxeons for experimental purposes, I have already tried mounting one in a Brinkman 2AA legend, the light output is amazing about like 10 of the newest Nichias at 6400 mcd.It was a bear making the heatsink small enought to fit in the head! I sincerely wish I could purchase the mini dc/dc controllers you are using just by themselves,It is primitive just using dropping resistors. Also I too wait for both of my Arc flashlights from you. Yes the other thread was long but then again isnt it nice being so popular?


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## Darell (Jan 10, 2002)

At the risk of helping to make THIS thread hugely long...

*Yay for the new thread!*

Let's see just how many Arc products I can buy this year! Ready?..... GO!


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## Terrapin Flyer (Jan 10, 2002)

Darell - I'm up to 7 already.
2 LE's, 4 AAA White (gifts) and 1 AAA Turq.
(Sorry Peter, got ansee and had to have the first 2 - you were backordered, then realized I needed the LE you're shipping me for my wife, and just yesterday ordered the 4 AAA Whites from BrightGuy for the annual camping trip's mementos). I guess you could say I'm pretty darn impressed, and the wife wants the LE for her truck (useful for finding pacifiers my young daughter has hurled).

The 4 AAA White's are being laser-engraved next week ($22 - not bad eh) and then attached to GloCord reflective lanyards (as the AAA Turq presently is around my neck for testing) along with a Glowring. The idea is that they will make great tent lights, and be easily found in the dark with the Glowring. The neck lanyard is perfect for trips to the "rustic facilities based on pit technology" that we will be implementing while camping in Northern Canada.

While ordering some Spyderco Ladybugs to add to the goodies for the gang I mentioned to New Graham owner Mike Dye that he should investigate your product. Be curious if he calls you, or you might want to sick Mr. Gibson on him.

I'll probably do an LS later in the year, sounds like a great light. Have any idea when the bulbs for the LE will run out since it was limited production? Have any replacement plans?


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## DavidW (Jan 10, 2002)

Peter, would you like me to lock up the old thread? Locking will not delete it. Just prevent new posts to the thread.


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## Gransee (Jan 10, 2002)

Actually, I should post an _LE Availability Report_.

Nichia still has not received anymore SB1 rank whites. It has been 3 months since they had any in stock and it is hard to say when they will get any more. We bought up all we could but our stock has been going quickly since then. We have enough to last maybe another week or two actually. The distributors may have some for a little longer than that. The past 2 weeks they have been going quicker than usual so it has been hard to predict when they will run out.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Jan 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DavidW:
*Peter, would you like me to lock up the old thread? Locking will not delete it. Just prevent new posts to the thread.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good idea David. Thanks.

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 10, 2002)

Hello everyone, and welcome to the new thread. I guess the "ARC family and friends" must have come close to setting a new thread posting record!

I will be representing ARC Flashlight at the upcoming SHOT Show Convention in Las Vegas Feb. 2-5. Please stop by and say "hello" if you can. Also, please tell your local sporting goods store to stop by and see our display, as our retail packaging is now ready - and I'll be visiting with retailers regarding ARC's introduction into retail stores.

Hope everyone has a "bright" New Year!

Steve


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## Bucky (Jan 10, 2002)

Any news on the (blue) Arc AAA LE CPF forum light?

Bucky


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## Flagone (Jan 11, 2002)

Hi Peter

My order for an ARC-AAA LE and an ARC-LS is currently on hold whilst the ARC-LS's come into production. 

As I have a current order, does that mean one of your limited remaining ARC-AAA LE's will be held for my order?


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## geepondy (Jan 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fivebeans:
*Hey guys, have any of you that own the Arc LS tried it with Lithium AA's yet? If so, is there any difference in brightness compared to Alkaline AA's? How do they compare to the 123's? I apologize if this has been covered previously, but I'm just curious.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, AA double pack is slightly brighter and reviewers charts have noted that it also has a longer, more steady discharge then alkaline's. Makes the light nice and light (weight wise) as well. I believe I saw that in single pack's the difference is even more pronounced compared to single alkaline.

Either double pack AA lithium's or alkaline's are brighter then CR123 pack. 

This is all from memory so correct me if I'm wrong!


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## Gransee (Jan 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bucky:
*Any news on the (blue) Arc AAA LE CPF forum light?

Bucky*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is due to be part of the next run of Arc-AAAs. They are supposed to be ready by the end of the month (the next run of AAAs had better be in time for the SHOT show!). The B1S LED is running out faster than usual so we will have to put the B2S LED in the CPF edition.

Peter


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## Gransee (Jan 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flagone:
*Hi Peter

My order for an ARC-AAA LE and an ARC-LS is currently on hold whilst the ARC-LS's come into production. 

As I have a current order, does that mean one of your limited remaining ARC-AAA LE's will be held for my order?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Send me a note with your order number and ask us to split the order. Otherwise we would be comepletely out of the LE by the time the LS shipped.

This is true for anyone else who has a LE/LS combination on back order ("on hold").

Peter


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## JollyRoger (Jan 11, 2002)

I posted this in the led forum, too...

Well, I must say, examining the exterior of the ARC-LS gave me the impression that this was truly a precision tool. I like the knurling. While it's not "grippy" and deep like the ARC LE, it is effective. It's not overly knurled, but it isn't ineffective either. I think it's just fine. Maybe just a little bit deeper?

Well, for the light output, I like it! It's bright...and very white. Especially when compared to the ARC LE, it's white beam is a welcome addition. The ARC LE looks VERY blue in comparison. I wonder how a regular ARC AAA would compare! The ARC LS is not at all blue, but not yellow either. My light is just a really nice soft white. The greenish/yellow ring that others have noticed isn't too noticeable at distances further than 2 feet or so. Sure, when you shine the ARC-LS closely up against a wall, you can see the ring on the outside of the beam spot, but it just blends in at distances greater than 2 feet. It's not too bad...

My foam retainer ring was also not centered. It seems it wasn't glued on correctly (glued on off-center). I don't mind too much about this. I plan on switching it out with the newer ones Peter is sending out anyways. I haven't tried it with a CR123 yet, so can't tell you if it works ok. It works fine with the 1AA and 2AA setups, though. http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/rogerkang/vwp?.dir=/LEDs&.dnm=ARC+LS_Inside+shot+of+head.jpg&.src=bc&.view=l&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/rogerkang/lst%3f%26.dir=/LEDs% 

I did notice that there is "too much" space for the batteries in the power packs and this allows battery rattle. Peter, I think you can reduce the inner diameter (and the outer diameter) of the power packs just a tad... http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/rogerkang/vwp?.dir=/LEDs&.dnm=ARC+LS_battery+fit.jpg&.src=bc&.view=l&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/rogerkang/lst%3f%26.dir=/LEDs%26.src=b 

The other thing I'm bothered about is the off-center beam on my ARC LS. It's not grossly off center, but enough to be annoying. I wish I could take the head apart and recenter it myself...and then reglue it myself. The head of the ARC LS seems like it can come apart (the part near the top?) but of course I didn't try...and probably will not try...b/c I don't want to mess with this light.
I think that in a light of this price and quality, there should be extra care taken to center the beam (in line with the optics). I know it's not possible to have a perfectly straight beam...and I think an off center beam is ok, but I think it is more important to align the luxeon emitter with the optics well. This is what I'm talking about here. I think this alignment is very important. Especially when using a precision-machined housing, I would think the alignment of the optics and the emitter could be done ok. ?? Sure, even lumileds might sell off center beams, but when you are separately assembling the emitter and the optics, hopefully you can correct for this off center problem? (Again, what I think is important is the alignment of the emitter and the optics, not so much the alignment of this combined unit in the flashlight. Sure the latter is important, but it is more important to have the emitter aligned with the optics. I think these are not aligned as well as they can be.)


To current ARC LS owners, look carefully into the optics...do you see any weird hairline-type cracks or patterns in the optics? I wonder if this is normal or if this developed as a result of the type of glue that was used in the assembly process. I don't know if it will get any worse, but for now it doesn't seem to affect the light output.

Despite this off-center beam, the light is bright. The flashlight looks serious...like a precision tool. I'll try to post some pics later.

Again, this light is bright. Compared to the other led's I have and use(the Eternalight being one of the brighter, and the 10 led versalux being the brightest multi led), the ARC LS is in its own class. Very bright for this small size.

-Roger
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/rogerkang/vwp?.dir=/LEDs&.dnm=ARC+LS_head.jpg&.src=bc&.view=l&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/rogerkang/lst%3f%26.dir=/LEDs%26.src=bc%26.view=1


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## Bucky (Jan 11, 2002)

Thanks for your response Peter. 

I must say though I think you should wait to use the B1S instead of the B2S LEDs even if it takes longer. After all, the only differences between the LE and regular are the HA finish and the LED. If one of those things aren't present then it is not really a LE then I think. Anyway, please consider waiting for the B1S LEDs before making the Forum Light. I have an Arc AAA but have been holding off on getting a LE because I knew the Forum Light was pending. If the Forum Light gets the B2S then I will have to get two more Arc AAA's - and I know you wouldn't want that to happen



.

Bucky


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## Glow Bug (Jan 11, 2002)

I agree with you Bucky. Peter we want the B1S LED........PLEASE


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## Darell (Jan 11, 2002)

Agreed! Might as well stop the LE run to make as many of the CPF units as possible. The CPF units should be the ULTIMATE LE model, as far as I'm concerned (though I can't imagine that anybody not affiliated with this board ever knew of or purchased the "regular" LE).


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## geepondy (Jan 11, 2002)

I agree also. I would not even consider one if it was inferior to my LE.

Just curious, am I really paranoid for wondering if only having three LEs for personal possession (bought many more for gifts), is sufficient considering we might not ever see this light again?


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## Bucky (Jan 11, 2002)

I think it only makes sense that the Forum Light has the B1S LEDs because the people who are going to buy them, the people on this forum, are among the most knowledgeable flashlight/LED people in all the land. If anyone won't be happy with anything less than the B1S LEDs it is us.

Plus, the Forum Light should basically be a LE, just in a different color HA finish. Otherwise, personally I think most, almost all of us really would rather have a LE with B1S than the Forum Light with B2S.

I hope you can understand Peter. As much as I would like a Forum Light as soon as possible, I think it is more important to have the B1S LED. It is worth the wait to have the "ultimate."

Bucky


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## Lonewolf (Jan 11, 2002)

I thought I was the only one who felt that way about the CPF LE for me it is also B1S that gets my vote.


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## Lonewolf (Jan 11, 2002)

Peter will you make the LE again when you get more B1S bulbs or is this it for the LE. I only have 2 so of this is it who still has them in stock?


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## Brock (Jan 11, 2002)

I agree with the B1S CPF light. I would gladly wait for the better LED's rather then getting it sooner. I have a feeling I am not the only one


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## Gransee (Jan 11, 2002)

Well! I had no idea. Well the CPF edition will have to wait until if/when we get more BS1 LEDs. The stock we have now is almost all sold.

Just so you know, it might be a couple of months. We could do them sooner if we use the BS2 LEDs. It's your call though so we will wait.

I will be runnning a test on the blue finish on the next batch of AAAs though. This is just to see how the HA blue combination works. I understand HA makes the colors much darker than the Type II.

Peter Gransee


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## Glow Bug (Jan 11, 2002)

Thank You Great One!!! We can't go backwards now. B1S + HA & Blue RULES!!!


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## Bucky (Jan 11, 2002)

Thanks Peter. The ArcFlashlight products have been so popular here as much because of your great relationship with the forumites, as because they are the best LED lights on the market. We don't want to wait a couple of months - but we will



.

I have an idea to throw out for the Forum Light and maybe all Arc AAA lights. What about trying to fashion a small plastic cap tethered to the neck of the light that would allow the relfector to be protected. I believe kogatana has made something like that for his Arc AAA LE. It is about the only thing I can think of that might make the Arc AAA better. Maybe it's not doable, but I think it is worth considering.

Bucky


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## Darell (Jan 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bucky:
*that would allow the relfector to be protected. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mean no disrespect - but I'm curious... What is the worry of reflector damage?

I've beaten the crap out of one of my AAA's, with no regard to the safety of the light, nor that of myself, my daughter or my dog. Nothing was harmed, not even the light. If you look very close, you can see very faint scratches in the reflector and in the LED, but there is NO discernible difference in light output. After my fully unscientific test, I will never again worry about the LED or reflector of my Arc AAAs.


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## Bucky (Jan 11, 2002)

I guess it's more about wanting everything to remain as close to "brand new" as possible for as long as possible. Now that I look at my Arc AAA, I guess there are really not that many scratches. All things being equal though I guess I would take a cap on mine if I had the choice. Your point is well taken though, it probably is not that big of a deal. It would be interesting to see what everyone else thinks.

Bucky


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## vcal (Jan 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bucky:
*I guess it's more about wanting everything to remain as close to "brand new" as possible for as long as possible. Now that I look at my Arc AAA, I guess there are really not that many scratches. All things being equal though I guess I would take a cap on mine if I had the choice. Your point is well taken though, it probably is not that big of a deal. It would be interesting to see what everyone else thinks.

Bucky*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FYI-the reflector on the Arc-AAA
IS polishable. I used a _mild_ car polish on my cherished



LE and it shines like a _mirror._ -Just be careful not to polish the LED


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## Gransee (Jan 12, 2002)

*Arc-LS Update:*

Last night I updated the website with an estimated ship time of April for the Arc-LS. I also stopped the website from taking any further Arc-LS orders and stopped taking order from our distributors.

So what is going on?

First, this only affects the Arc-LS.

Back when we where working on the LS prototypes, I was advised by my business partner and other people to not produce the light at this time. They said it would stunt the growth of the company by soaking up valuable operating capital. They advised that we had sufficient room for expansion with the Arc-AAA alone.

In hindsight, I realize they where right. Being an idealist and flashlight junky, I really wanted to and still do want to produce the Arc-LS, in spite of what people say.

It has cost a lot of time and dollars. More than I thought it would, that's for sure. And it still is sucking up the time. History is replete with stories of guys and their grand projects that either ruin them or transform them (Captain Ahab, Mozart, blah blah, etc).

Truthfully, in a moment of regret, I did consider coming on here and telling you that the Arc-LS was canceled indefinitely, or the price was raised, etc.

But... Heheh. We've past the point of no return. The Arc-LS is making money now and we have considerable funds wrapped up in Arc-LS related assets. So to stop now would end up slowing the company growth further (So there!). 

So we are not going to cancel the Arc-LS.

My merry band of sailors finally did ship a small amount of Arc-LS kits earlier this month. We also will be shipping another small batch early next week.

And we will continue with improvements and regular shipments. 

Which brings me to the changes to website with the new delivery date, etc. What has happened there is I did the math and realized that at our current rate of production, it will take us about 4-6 months to fulfill our back orders. That will not do! So first, we stopped accepting any more orders. That is a no-brainer. Second, we moved the ship date way out to give us more time. We actually will ship some of the orders before then (like the shipment going out this coming week) but, the bulk of the orders will take longer than that.

The yields and therefore shipment sizes will increase over time. Improving the LS production line is taking a large amount of my time. For every improvement we are making to the flashlight itself, there are three other improvements we are making to the production line. This is mostly to improve quality and yields.

We are making some improvements to the Arc-LS immediately. I have already ordered new retainers to address the 123 issues. I am supposed to have samples to evaluate next week of the new retainer design. Once these have been tested, we will ship them out with the new units and as replacements for the units already shipped. 

If you have an Arc-LS, you are entitled to these free fixes. We will ship the new foam retainers and instructions notes to you when they are ready.

Another improvement I hope to evaluate this coming week is a new centering tool I ordered. This will improve the whites and fix the colors so we can begin to ship them as well.

I have also promised to look at the "corona" issue to see if this was normal, or something that could be minimized.

One of my New Years resolutions was to deliver our products on time. I plan on doing just that. Not just by moving the delivery date out, but by also speeding up production.

If you already have an order with us our one of our distributors for and Arc-LS, your order will be filled. If you already have an Arc-LS, your flashlight is supported by all of us at Arc flashlight. If you haven't ordered one but would like to, we will be taking new orders around the April time frame.

Thanks for being so patient. Please contact me with any concerns or questions about the Arc-LS or our other flashlights. Thank you for the many kind reviews of the Arc-LS we have received so far.

Fellow “flash-a-holic”,
Peter Gransee
President, Arc Flashlight


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 12, 2002)

Hi, Gransee. I was wondering what your goal for the extended run time aaa is...double the run time?

As far as your considering the B2 bulb for the CPF light...well, I`m just glad your feeling better. Is the plan still to have our member numbers on it? Could you use the cobalt/gold contacts on it?

Have you ever considered making a wide beam white AAA avalable? I have a *rare* (the only one known to exist) wide beam Photon 3 and it throws a nice amount of light for a short distance. If you made them I would have to buy one.

I think over time you will find the decision to make the LS was a great one. Any inside scoop on when the high dome whites will be avalible?


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## Gransee (Jan 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
*Hi, Gransee. I was wondering what your goal for the extended run time aaa is...double the run time? As far as your considering the B2 bulb for the CPF light...well, I`m just glad your feeling better. Is the plan still to have our member numbers on it?


Have you ever considered making a wide beam white AAA avalable? I have a *rare* (the only one known to exist) wide beam Photon 3 and it throws a nice amount of light for a short distance. If you made them I would have to buy one.

I think over time you will find the decision to make the LS was a great one. Any inside scoop on when the high dome whites will be avalible?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Ken! 

1. The E_xtended_ R_un_ Arc-AAA is being tested by the famous Craig Johnson today actually. The customer requirements are to find a good mix of run time to brightness. We already sent the customer the test units they asked for. We are also testing them ourselves for our curiosity. Craig is free to post the run time graphs if he so chooses. There might be some interest from the flashlight community for such a light and we may offer it for sale at a later time. Understandably, we do not have any shipping dates set for this model.

2. CPF model. We will testing the blue color next week to see how it looks in the type III HA. It going to be dark since HA makes the colors darker than Type II. Originally we tossed around the idea of engraving numbers or names on each flashlight. This would entail a lot of extra work. We are willing to do it but just understand it takes awhile to custom engrave that many flashlights. Ideally, with all the projects we have going, I would like to simplify the engraving to say, "CPF Member Edition", etc. But you are the boss.

3. Wide beam Arc-AAA. Actually, we did test this but I am not happy with the beam yet. No product is planned.

4. High dome (lambertian) whites. Last I heard, this was a Q2 release.

Peter


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 12, 2002)

Hmm...actually I am ok with just CPF Member Edition...yea...that would be fine with me. Would it be possible to have cobalt/gold contacts like the LS? How much would it raise the price?


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## Gransee (Jan 12, 2002)

*Arc-AAA Update:*

The Arc-AAA is our core product. As you know, we just finished the retail blister packaging for the Arc-AAA line. 

Front view:





And back view:





We will be formally introducing the Arc-AAA to the retail industry at the upcoming SHOT show in Las Vegas. Steve Gibson will be there answering questions and taking orders for the second quarter.

We have already begun to ramp up production on the Arc-AAA to improve Q2 shipping times. 

The blister pack models will be the new 2.5 version with all the latest improvements (including the new HA finish on all models). Customers will start to see the blister packs by Q2. We are very pleased with the level of refinement we are now offering the Arc-AAA at.

Since May of 2001, Arc Flashlight has provided the latest flashlight technology in the popular key chain form factor. Our core product, the Arc-AAA, employs a miniture inverter/regulator driving a high output white LED.

For retail inquires please contact Steve Gibson at [email protected] .

Peter Gransee


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## Lonewolf (Jan 12, 2002)

Peter what will be the selling price on the AAA when they are available in retail outlets?


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## Chingyul (Jan 12, 2002)

Also, which retail stores will be carrying the arc?
Any in Canada?


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## geepondy (Jan 12, 2002)

Well now, Peter. Observing your blister pack for the Arc AAA, do you have any inside scoop for a source of cheap Duracell batteries? Actually for the Arc AAA's, it's a moot point. My main Arc LE is still on it's original battery. Still for other devices.....

Please consider adding on the Arc web site, a list of brick and mortar stores that will be carrying the Arc products.


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## Gransee (Jan 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
*Hmm...actually I am ok with just CPF Member Edition...yea...that would be fine with me. Would it be possible to have cobalt/gold contacts like the LS? How much would it raise the price?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The entire PCB in the LS is clad in cobalt/gold alloy. It does add to the price and more than I thought it would. I think there are other things I would like to add to the Arc-AAA that offer more bang for the buck. 

So, no gold for the Arc-AAA. We are trying to keep the price down as it is- although lately I have been adding more to it's cost in other ways (packaging, battery, HA finish, etc).

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Jan 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5BY5:
*Peter what will be the selling price on the AAA when they are available in retail outlets?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The retail price is set by the retailers to a large extent. They usally expect a 60-70% discount off of list price and then they mark it up 30-40% to pay for their costs. I think you'll find their price somewhere between list and the price of a good online shop like TTS, Brightguy, etc. Which is quite all right since you pay for the conveinence of being able to take the product home right away.

We sell our product at different discounts based on quantity. To get the 50-70% discount, the retail chain would have to buy tens of thousands of units or more. Companies like TTS buy fewer units and get a smaller discount but have a lower overhead.

The way we pay our bills is to make sure that 70% of list (or whatever) still covers costs. That means the list price is higher than it would be if we only sold direct. That is why I have recommended for some time that to get the lowest price, you should shop around to all of our resellers.

Peter


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## Gransee (Jan 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dan Ching:
*Also, which retail stores will be carrying the arc?
Any in Canada?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too soon to say.

Peter


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## Gransee (Jan 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
*Well now, Peter. Observing your blister pack for the Arc AAA, do you have any inside scoop for a source of cheap Duracell batteries? Actually for the Arc AAA's, it's a moot point. My main Arc LE is still on it's original battery. Still for other devices.....

Please consider adding on the Arc web site, a list of brick and mortar stores that will be carrying the Arc products.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We will certainly add a list of everyplace we know of that you may buy our product. We already have a list of our online resellers posted.

Batteries. I know some of our fellow CPF'ers have found some good deals. I do not know of any off hand however. We buy our cells direct from Duracell but our contract forbids us from reselling them apart from our flashlight. Btw, there is a good reason for that which the resident economic majors could answer.

Peter


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## Bucky (Jan 12, 2002)

CPF Member Forum Edition inscribed on the Arc AAA is fine with me, and I would guess fine with most. I would think that most of us don't even know our member number and even if we do, it doesn't really have much significance. Certainly not enough to add unneeded cost and time in my opinion.

Peter, what would be the "other things" you would like to add to the Arc-AAA that offer more bang for the buck? 

Those blister packs really look nice.

Will the Arc AAA LE really be a "Limited Edition" or will they be offered basically for as long as the normal Arc AAA? How will the CPF Member Edition Arc AAA and the Arc AAA LE differ besides the color of HA?

Thanks again Peter,

Bucky


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## supertrucker (Jan 12, 2002)

Peter, keep your chin up on the LS, I will wait as long as is necessary to ensure the highest quality light you can offer. 
Nice blister pack! You're sure to sell a million.
"CPF EDITION"--Love the blue type III idea, 
"CPF MEMBER" is fine for the engraving.

Would love to see a pocket clip for AAA(actually this goes for the LS also), it
would fit quite nicely next to my knife!


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## Terrapin Flyer (Jan 12, 2002)

OK, I'm one of the new guys around here, but as I read this forum (esp. this thread), I become more & more impressed with Arc and its leadership. It's refreshing to see a company put this much effort into product quality, customer service, and product enhancements based on customer input.

As well, the mutually beneficial relationship btwn. CPF and Arc is quite unique and a blast to watch in action. My hat is off to Peter & Arc and the folks on this forum for their efforts. It would appear that all parties are enjoying themselves and I hope to see it continue for years and numerous lights to come.

Maybe I'm too late with this request, but how does one acquire a "Member's CPF AAA"? If this is the medium, then plz put me down for 2(two). Lastly, I will gladly wait for an LS if that's what it takes to get it "right".....ok, ok, perfect. I'll patiently watch from the sidelines as you folks work your magic!


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## Go Go Gadget Flashlight (Jan 12, 2002)

Peter,

Perhaps you could enlighten us with the problems you're having. I'll understand if you'd rather not, though.






Regarding the Arc-LS, what kind of production volume are we talking about here? How many "open" orders do you currently have to fill?

What's the pass rate % on the production models? How many are produced in a week?

I belive this was asked earlier, what happens to all the "no good" LS components? Is it feasible to salvage them? Perhaps they could be sold as "seconds" or "blems" w/o a warranty...

I think this info, if you're inclined to share it, might help everyone understand the type of volume you are dealing with and the grand scale of "simple" problems like centering, etc...

Also, there are many creative people here, as I'm sure you are aware. With a better understanding of the problems, we might be able to come up with practical solutions.





As I think you have said before, the CPF'ers have been an integral part of the specs and design for the Arc-LS. Give us a chance to struggle with the troubleshooting process, too. You never know what might happen with all these "virtual engineers" on the case!





I know very little about the politics of running a company. If this information is not meant for the public (or your competition), then disregard the request.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I feel bad for all the problems you're having. I'd like to contribute to a solution if at all possible. Especially in this case, because you have given so much to the CPF community.

Just wanted to get your thoughts on the idea.

Thanks,

Mike


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 12, 2002)

I now own 4 Arc flashlights..so many colors..so many uses..I CAN'T STOP BUYING THEM..help..need help...


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## Darell (Jan 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lightboy:
*I now own 4 Arc flashlights*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just four? What's wrong - don't like 'em enough? Get that credit card out!

I found that six was a good starter number, but that 12 just feels better.






- Darell


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Just four? What's wrong - don't like 'em enough? *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I would own five, but as hard as I try, I can't justify ownership of an IR model since I don't own any night vision equipment...would be a $20 paperweight...unless someone out there can suggest a good use to me...I mean no no...please don't do that...no...


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## Darell (Jan 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5BY5:
*Does that say type III anodized finish? *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll take this one... YUP, the retail-packaged AAAs will be black type III HA. Can't say for sure if that's what the package says, but it might as well.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 13, 2002)

Peter-

I currently own only one of your flashlights, a "AAA" LE and I LOVE IT!!! Last night I helped my buddy order a standard Turquoise from TTS, and have another friend "in Process". The "street-buzz" is speading Peter. I show off my "AAA" to co-workers all the time and you wouldn't believe the number of eyballs-a-poppin'. I will be ordering more "AAA"'s for myself as my wife allows, and will be giving at least seven of them away as gifts in the coming year. Word of mouth is the best advertising, and judging from your fans on this forum, spreading exponentially. It is not an understatement to say that this is a benchmark torch and people recognize that. 

Thanks for taking a chance with the LS and you can count on me to order one when you start taking orders again. 

I work for the largest "wholesale warehouse" chain in the world (not Sam's Club). We currently move hundreds of thousands of Maglite units a year, maybe millions. I don't know if you'd be interested or not, but when you think you are able to meet consumer demand, say the word and I will speak to one of my friends at the buying office and see about getting your products into our stores. If I am able, I sure would like to help out an honorable businessman in every possible way.

Keep up the good work Peter. We appreciate it.

Oh yeah...and "CPF Member" is great for the engraving on the forum light. If I really want my name engraved, I can have it done by the local jeweler.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Thanks Ken! 

1. The Extended Run Arc-AAA is being tested by the famous Craig Johnson today actually. The customer requirements are to find a good mix of run time to brightness. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first of two versions being tested is still going at virtually new intensity more than two days into it. The test was started shortly before 1pm on Friday, and showed a photocell (relative intensity) reading of 0.280. Within about 12 hours, it had dropped to 0.240 or so and then levelled off, and right now (approx. 52 hours later) is sitting at a steady 0.230 on the meter.

When it drops below 0.050 or so, the test will end, and the second variation of the light will go on the meter.


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## cave dave (Jan 13, 2002)

Peter,
If you produce an extended runtime can you make the case a different color maybe a military HA Green. (I assume your special customer is a military type)

This way I can tell the difference between my regular and the long burn. Unlike the colored colors I wouldnt be able to tell just by turning it on.



"Is the battery dead or did I pick up the long burn?"


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## cave dave (Jan 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*...and showed a photocell (relative intensity) reading of 0.280. ....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just for comparison, What does a regular arc show on the meter? An infinity?


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
*Just for comparison, What does a regular arc show on the meter? An infinity?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That I won't know until the test is done and the instrument & photocell become available again.


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
*Just for comparison, What does a regular arc show on the meter? An infinity?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the supreme question...since it may be a while before the meter is free what is yout impression...a little dimmer than the infinity?

Is the one your testing now the brighter of the two samples?

Peter, would the price be about the same as the normal Arc?


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## Lonewolf (Jan 14, 2002)

Peter I was trying to read the back of the blister pack. Does that say type III anodized finish? Also I was surprised to see that we can also receive replacement o-rings and foam retainers for the price of a SAS envelope. You are constantly surprising me with YOUR level of customer service.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
*This is the supreme question...since it may be a while before the meter is free what is yout impression...a little dimmer than the infinity?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No way to tell that without taking the light out of the jig and queering the test. I didn't do any comparisons when I started - I just shoved it into the test jig, turned it on, and fired up the computer recording program.

It's still going too, around 3.3 days into it. Looks like you'll have to wait just a little longer.


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## Gransee (Jan 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Go, Go Gadget Flashlight:
*Peter,

Perhaps you could enlighten us with the problems you're having. I'll understand if you'd rather not, though.





Regarding the Arc-LS, what kind of production volume are we talking about here? How many "open" orders do you currently have to fill?

What's the pass rate % on the production models? How many are produced in a week?

I belive this was asked earlier, what happens to all the "no good" LS components? Is it feasible to salvage them? Perhaps they could be sold as "seconds" or "blems" w/o a warranty...

I think this info, if you're inclined to share it, might help everyone understand the type of volume you are dealing with and the grand scale of "simple" problems like centering, etc...

Also, there are many creative people here, as I'm sure you are aware. With a better understanding of the problems, we might be able to come up with practical solutions.





As I think you have said before, the CPF'ers have been an integral part of the specs and design for the Arc-LS. Give us a chance to struggle with the troubleshooting process, too. You never know what might happen with all these "virtual engineers" on the case!





I know very little about the politics of running a company. If this information is not meant for the public (or your competition), then disregard the request.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I feel bad for all the problems you're having. I'd like to contribute to a solution if at all possible. Especially in this case, because you have given so much to the CPF community.

Just wanted to get your thoughts on the idea.

Thanks,

Mike*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good to hear from you Mike and thanks. Yes, you’re right that I shouldn't go into too many details. It would be preferable if you where here in person. Then you could tour the lines and get a first hand understanding of where we are at. 

In a nutshell, there are a lot of smart people working the problems. We have solutions; they just take time to implement. I usually have improvements for a product several revisions into the future. It just takes time to implement when you have a manufacturing process in place.

Yes, we are able to salvage a good amount of the parts that don't make it. For example, if the HA is blemished, we QC them out and then send them back to be stripped and replated. What is usally lost is something we don't have a lot of: time.

It will come together with the LS just like it did with the Arc-AAA. I just get impatient some times.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Jan 15, 2002)

Well, that is certainly longer than I thought it would last. 

Btw, the XR uses the same circuitry as the standard Arc-AAAs. The regulator is set to a lower set point so the light is dimmer but lasts longer.

Peter


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## Darell (Jan 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*The Arc-XR prototype being tested has now been going for almost exactly 4 full days continuously (96 hours) on the same battery!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This test is gonna cost you more in coffee than in batteries, that's for sure.*


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## vcal (Jan 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Just a quick update.
The Arc-XR prototype being tested has now been going for almost exactly 4 full days continuously (96 hours) on the same battery! The start reading at around 12:30pm last Friday was .28 and right now it's reading just under .22 and it's still going.

The test can't be considered done until it falls to somewhere between .05 to .08 (or about like a late moon-mode on a traditional Arc AAA).*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Craig,-at some point, could you make any comparisons between the output of the XR and the white Infinity? Looks like the folks over there at Arc. are getting a superb handle on circuit regulation.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 15, 2002)

Just got word from the Arc retail store today, my white LS with single AA battery pack is slated to be delivered TOMORROW!!!!!

Good thing I'm on medical leave from work with a tonsilectomy....trust me, you wouldn't want to be in my shoes except for being on the receiving end of one each UPS delivery!











Thanks again Peter for being on the cutting edge! A flashlight that will shine forever into the future.

Oh, and these painkillers are good too!


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## Gransee (Jan 15, 2002)

I hope you like the Arc-LS Hardchemist. Just remember we shipped you a first run unit so it still has the 123 issue. We are working on a new foam retainer this week (I checked on them today and they where shipped out to us yesterday!), which we will ship out to all first run holders once they are tested.

We could have held this second shipment back once we learned about the errant foam retainer, but I think you would have preffered to have the units ASAP (am I wrong?).





Especially since the problem can be fixed just by swapping out the foam retainer.

For now, you can just remove the foam retainer if you want, the 123 packs will work fine without it. The retainer is there to reduce battery rattle in the 'off' setting.

I wish you a pain-free recovery from your tonsilectomy.

Peter Gransee


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## Go Go Gadget Flashlight (Jan 15, 2002)

Hardchemist, hear, hear, on that speedy, painless recovery.





Peter, I see what you mean. Hands-on is always the best way to find a problem in my opinion. Hey, did I mention I'm still looking for a job?








I know you'll get all the bugs worked out.



I just wondered if you had any unsolved problems the CPF'ers might be able to "brainstorm" on.

I got my LS from TTS today. Aside from the aforementioned battery spacer problem, the only suggestion I have is to apply some o-ring lube before shipping. Most people don't have any and it isn't a very common thing to find at a local store.

The LS feels more like a tool than a flashlight. I think that by the time you get the production bugs smoothed out, you'll have a light that knocks the socks off of any competitors. Again.

Hat's off Peter.


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## Sean (Jan 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Just a quick update.
The Arc-XR prototype being tested has now been going for almost exactly 4 full days continuously (96 hours) on the same battery! The start reading at around 12:30pm last Friday was .28 and right now it's reading just under .22 and it's still going.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


So how does the brightness compare to other LED lights? Anything you have tested that is similar?

What I am trying to ask is: Just how bright is that thing?


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## geepondy (Jan 15, 2002)

Or if the Arc-XR has a start reading value of .28, what are the readings of some other lights to compare it.

We just don't want to wait until February for the XR to die.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vcal:
*Craig,-at some point, could you make any comparisons between the output of the XR and the white Infinity? Looks like the folks over there at Arc. are getting a superb handle on circuit regulation.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once the test is done, I'll look for my white Infinity and do the test. Right now, it's in a jig under an enclosure and simply cannot be disturbed until the meter sez so.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 16, 2002)

Just a quick update.
The Arc-XR prototype being tested has now been going for almost exactly *4 full days continuously (96 hours) on the same battery!* The start reading at around 12:30pm last Friday was .28 and right now it's reading just under .22 and it's still going.

The test can't be considered done until it falls to somewhere between .05 to .08 (or about like a late moon-mode on a traditional Arc AAA).


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 16, 2002)

The key component to all of this is the regulator that Peter has chosen or had custom designed, and that is what I wish I had, just the regulator, about 500 of them! If there was any way I could buy just that from Peter it would save me a lot of time in my developement, I am not trying to compete with him but trying to find an affordable complete dc/dc board that has already been tested.


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## Flagone (Jan 16, 2002)

I just got notice my Arc LS and LE have been shipped. Woohoo!

It will be about a week before I get them as they have to come out to sunny Australia.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 16, 2002)

Lucky you mate!



I have to work in cold dark Alaska, the place where vampires have their winter vacations above the Arctic Circle (4 months of no sunlight)



BTW what was your order number? Mine is 1210, am I getting close to a shipment date?


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## Bright Scouter (Jan 16, 2002)

I think Daniel needs his LS more than anyone else! Can you imagine the test time during 4 months of night???? Zowee Batman!


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 16, 2002)

No kidding



Peter should advertise heavily in the parts like the Arctic and Northwest Territories in Canada where its our lifestyle to continue work and play during the long winter months, for those that are not aware the further north a person heads during the winter months the shorter the day is. About 150 miles north of Fairbanks is the Arctic Circle where yes it is dark for months and thousands of people live and work there like those in the oilfields, pilots,dogmushers,hunters and basically anyone. I bet if I was to open a shop in Barrow I could get pretty good business from september-march for LED flashlights, headlamps and even area lighting using LEDs because of their low current draw.


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## Klaus (Jan 16, 2002)

Oh my - didn´t new ARC flashlights are SO MUCH addictiv - actually my little 21 month old daughter doesn´t give me the ARC AAA LE back I gave her to play around - no trading against anything else - NO WAY - she just doesn´t return it - guess I have to wait till she falls asleep or buy a new one - will she then take that second one as well - time will tell - more to come ....





Klaus


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## sylvestor (Jan 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
*Or if the Arc-XR has a start reading value of .28, what are the readings of some other lights to compare it.

We just don't want to wait until February for the XR to die.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you tell me what the Arc-XR is ? I haven't heard of it ....

thanks,


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## Darell (Jan 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
[QB]Can you tell me what the Arc-XR is ? I haven't heard of it ....
QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Single AAA e*X*tended *R*untime.

Craig has been up watching his for days now...


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## JollyRoger (Jan 17, 2002)

Hehe...I gave an ARC LE to my girlfriend's little brother (around 12 yrs old?). I know...expensive gift...but it's well appreciated. I hear he sleeps with it every night! He lost it once (fell on the floor at night and his dad picked it up and put it on a bookshelf) and he was frantically searching for it.






Peter, I love my ARC LE. I find it more appealing than the ARC LS with the 1AA configuration b/c its size is so small and convenient. But give the ARC LS two AA's or 1 CR123 and...wow...


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 17, 2002)

Well all I can say is WOW!!! I received my LS last night. I was going out in the dark to change a blown porch light, the UPS man scared the %^** of me. 
I really like the AA lith version. I took the Liths out of my 8x( about ten hours on them) and installed new energizer titaniums in the 8x. the LS smoothers out the 8x completely. 
I got the beam length of my Mag 3D. Almost as bright close up as my Mag 5D, not quite, but better beam. The 8x does light a area up close better. But the LS has by far the best beam that I own, save the 6p. But who can afford to use that on a regular bases. I would like to see a bit smoother beam out of the LS, but compare it to a average incandescent and you don't care any more. I love the common use batteries. I have a drawer full of old bats waiting to get ate up by the LS.
All I need now is a poly sheath for the LS and it is complete. It would also be great to see plastic caps for the spare bat compartments. 
I can't wait to order a Arc AAA. 
Let us all know when you plan to intro a LS headlight. 
I have noticed that the real test for a led light is to take it outside, and the LS Passed with flying colors. 
Thanks Peter


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Well, that is certainly longer than I thought it would last. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Almost six full days now. It's at .209 and still plugging along....


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 17, 2002)

Received my LS a couple of hours ago, and I threw together a web page really quick complete with photos!

Good job, Peter! The LS White will completely meet my flashlight needs until my 2xAA Cyan comes in from Texas Tactical....

Enjoy! http://homepage.mac.com/hardchemist/ArcLS/PhotoAlbum3.html


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## vcal (Jan 17, 2002)

hardchemist,-great looking photos, but couldn't get them to expand to full size


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## Chris M. (Jan 17, 2002)

Doug, he`s using a Javascript thingy-whatsit to make it work. Do I remember rightly that you`re using an older browser, maybe even Web-TV? Probably doesn`t support Javascript, hence it won`t work right.


BTW to check if that`s the case- do you get a popup box when you visit my site? If not, you don`t have Java support. Which in the case of that silly advert box, is a _good thing_


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 17, 2002)

Maybe it's a JAVA thing, like Chris M. mentions above. I think Microsoft decided to ship XP without the ability to understand javascript to spite Sun about something or other, I don't know. I just stick with Macs and everything works. OS X is great! Hasn't crashed in months (except when I unplugged the active Firewire drive....).


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## vcal (Jan 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris M.:
*Doug, he`s using a Javascript thingy-whatsit to make it work. Do I remember rightly that you`re using an older browser, maybe even Web-TV?
BTW to check if that`s the case- do you get a popup box when you visit my site? If not, you don`t have Java support. Which in the case of that silly advert box, is a good thing






*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I dunno, Chris-I AM getting that advert. box on top of your home page



, but becos of broken monitor, I'm using my old Web-T browser temporarily.

Chemist's blowup pix comes up as mostly white screen, with an empty rect.slotbox at the bottom with < + > arrows


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## Chingyul (Jan 17, 2002)

WOOHOO
Arc LE arrived today.!!!
Man, it's small. All the pictures on the net show it close up. Much smaller than i imagined. Nice beam. Mine is a bit bluish though. HEHE.
Great product though Peter.
Thanks


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## One001 (Jan 18, 2002)

My ARC LS kit arrived today. Shipped on Jan 14 by air mail to Canada - I'm very happy with the shipping - small box - fast and efficient mail service across border. Beautiful HA finish, very smooth feel and operation, nice and solid unit. Love the appearance - sharp looking engraving too. No 123 batteries yet so tried single AA Alk & dual AA alks. Not dark out yet so shining under table and in washroom. My first impression is that light has a distinct overall violet tint in both formats. I was expecting a pure white or a warmer white from reading previous posts. However, mine definitely has a purple look to it. I hope this doesn't impact the perceived brightness of the beam as I've had some experience with white Photons where one is more violet looking than the other and the one with less violet is the brighter one. I wonder if there is that kind of variation amongst white LS's? I will test it further at night to see if that violet tint is bothersome. I miss the small keychain ring that is included with the ARC AAA. That little ring makes it easier to attach to things - also would be nice if that were to be included that it could be in HA finish to match. Did anyone else receive a white LS which has a violet look or can someone explain why mine appears violet?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 18, 2002)

Mine is not violet, But the more I use it, the more the three blue spots in the beam come out. I dont mind them though. My wife is really starting to like the blue type light that leds put out anyway. I dont blame her, it really seams to a more useable light.
I had origionaly posted that it was as brigh as my Mag D cells, I put new bats in those tonight and the LS is not close. But I am sure the LS will still be giving good light when the Mags are dead.
I am bouncing back and forth between bats that were once dead in my mini mags, and new ones. I dont really see that much of a diference. I like that. I always knew they had some more use in them.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 18, 2002)

Just an update on that Arc-XR beta under test.

It's been 7 days 9 hours and change, and it's still going! Present meter reading is .211 (it started at .280 more than a week ago).


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## Darell (Jan 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Just an update on that Arc-XR beta under test.

It's been 7 days 9 hours and change, and it's still going! Present meter reading is .211 (it started at .280 more than a week ago).*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Craig! That is incredible. Can't wait to hear what a standard AAA, and an Infinity puts out for comparison. Sounds to me like the Infinities will soon be obsolete though...


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## Anath (Jan 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Just an update on that Arc-XR beta under test.
It's been 7 days 9 hours and change, and it's still going! Present meter reading is .211 (it started at .280 more than a week ago).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, what's in that thing, an RTG?

If it is brighter than an Infinity, I definitely want one!, sounds like it would be the ultimate "reading-in-bed



" light, not to mention a brilliant "i'm stuck in a cave and my main light is dead



" light too.. 

can we get some beam pics and relative brightness comparisons when it finally dies?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 18, 2002)

Peter,
I was wondering if there is any update with the LS shipments (I have order #1091)? I checked the storefront and it said the order is on hold. If the backorder is for either the white or blue LS, could the order be broken up? I'm just getting a little antsy because I gave my Mom the choice between the Arc-AAA and an Infinity I had and naturally she chose the Arc-AAA, so I could really use a fix of intense light from Arc.


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## Bright Scouter (Jan 19, 2002)

Peter,

Can you tell us if you have gotten enough LS's shipped out yet to take care of the people with reservations? I think I was one of the first to order, but didn't have a ressie. Hoping it will be before the next campout! Thanks.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anath:
*Wow, what's in that thing, an RTG?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldn't it be great if they could be made using RTGs? I mean, come on...the NRC already allows plutonium power in pacemakers...what's more important..having a regular heartbeat, or owning a really cool flashlight? You probably wouldn't be on this forum if you didn't think the latter. Imagine...a flashlight that could double as a handwarmer, and it wouldn't need an on/off switch. At 10years, your LED would be putting out over 80% its original photons, and your RTG would be putting out over 90% its original power. Waterproof would be tricky, though, because you'd have to find a way to vent all the helium. Latex is permeable to Helium, but not water, isn't it?

What do you think Peter? Special CPF ARC LS lights with plutonium? Not that you needed another project right now...


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## bluegreen (Jan 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Just an update on that Arc-XR beta under test.

It's been 7 days 9 hours and change, and it's still going! Present meter reading is .211 (it started at .280 more than a week ago).*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. That's some going (might be right dim though.) Is anyone taking odds on how long it will last? At the rate it's going and combining with a number pulled out of the air, I'll bet on 16 days.


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## Gransee (Jan 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurch556:
*Peter,
I was wondering if there is any update with the LS shipments (I have order #1091)? I checked the storefront and it said the order is on hold. If the backorder is for either the white or blue LS, could the order be broken up? I'm just getting a little antsy because I gave my Mom the choice between the Arc-AAA and an Infinity I had and naturally she chose the Arc-AAA, so I could really use a fix of intense light from Arc.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Lurch. No new update. Currently we are shooting to start the production line back up towards the end of February. Your number is fairly low should it should ship around the first of March. The improved line should be able to produce colors so there would be no advantage to splitting your order at this point.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Jan 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bluegreen:
*Wow. That's some going (might be right dim though.) Is anyone taking odds on how long it will last? At the rate it's going and combining with a number pulled out of the air, I'll bet on 16 days.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it exceeded my projections. The light is pretty dim as you suspect. For those with a precise supply and some s-rank Nichias, run about 3-4mA into it for comparision. This is dimmer than practically any flashlight on the market (including the Infinity).

Craig is testing two versions of the XR. Both have S-rank Nichia whites. There is a 15mA version and a 5mA version. Craig is currently testing the 5mA version.

The 15mA version is near the brightness of an Infinity. I project runtime to be about 24 hours on a regular Duracell.

Just a reminder that these prototypes where developed for a customer who requested them with a special use in mind. The design called for a low light output with an extended run time in a compact and rugged package.

Peter Gransee


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## Anath (Jan 19, 2002)

nonetheless, even an infinity is slightly too bright for reading books in bed, maybe you could try reading in the dark with one for an hour or so



, and let us know how feasable it is.. a 10 day runtime from a AAA battery would rock if it is useful!, even a 24 hr lifespan AAA-XR wedged on top of my ear would be better than the infinity.


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## Termac (Jan 19, 2002)

*Re: Arc Flashlights 2002 *DELETED* *DELETED**

Post deleted by Termac


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## protodoc (Jan 19, 2002)

Wow, the Arc AAA XR sounds like a great reading lamp. I have been using an infinity dimmed with a white cloth hood in the past. If this one makes it to production I would love to get one.

protodoc


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## Lonewolf (Jan 19, 2002)

I don't know for my useage I think the xr is to dim but to each his own.


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## rigormootis (Jan 20, 2002)

Greetings all…This is my first post here...I usually can be found over on Bladeforum.com.

I joined this forum for the expressed purpose of keeping up with the ARC-LS developments... I have become especially impressed by Arc Flashlight LLC. after Peter Gransee responded (within hours) to an inquiry I posted late last night. He was incredibly fair and unflincing at my barrage of questions about the LS...hat's off to you Peter! 

Now...after reading this thread...it seems that something else (the XR) has caught my attention. 

I must say that from what I have read, this type of light does fit a viable niche for many military / LE personnel. I currently carry several red infinities simply because they last so long on 1 AA (esp. the lithium) and they are not 'too bright' - even in red - to draw undue attention. When more light is needed, I have a few more red Photon IIs - but their exposed LED is problematic for the attention-drawing effect they have. I have one Arc-LE on my regular keychain...but I rarely need a white light in the field. If Arc came out with the XR in red, I'd buy it immediately. I also want to get on "the list" (if one exists) for the LS when it becomes available again. 

One final note on AA lights. Almost everything in my little 'arsenal' as a Criminal Investigator with a field MP Co. runs on AAs. NVGs, radios (we use Motorolas a lot), and my Infinities to name a few. I would be very interested in an Infinity-like Arc light. It should run on a single AA (so I can use lithiums in it and it would be compatible with all my near-dead batts from other items in a pinch), be about as bright or only a tad brighter than a Infinity, have a polycarbonate or other protective 'lens', and be up to the ARC Q/C standards.

Again, I would buy this light, as would many associates of mine, in a heartbeat... 

Thanks for making such quality products, ARC…and thanks for lending an ear to suggestions such as this.


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## Gransee (Jan 20, 2002)

Welcome to the CPF Rigormootis! If you don't know already you will soon find out that this is a good and hard working bunch of people here on the CPF.

The Arc-AA has been suggested on several occasions. I haven't always responded enthusiastically to the suggestion but enough people have asked for it to get my attention. It’s on the list of future products. 

Currently and for the most of this year, we will be making refinements to the Arc-AAA and Arc-LS. This will keep us pretty busy.

Thanks for the idea of offering the XR in colors other than white. Would you agree that white, blue, red and turquiose should be in the running? Or at least white, red, turquiose? Of course this is not a publically available product yet and each color adds to the complexity of the manufacturing.

Peter Gransee


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## rigormootis (Jan 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*The Arc-AA has been suggested on several occasions....

...Thanks for the idea of offering the XR in colors other than white. Would you agree that white, blue, red and turquiose should be in the running? Or at least white, red, turquiose...? *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Gransee! I am perhaps in the minority here in that I only buy multi-color lights (other than white) when they have a specific purpose. The only color LEDs I currently own are Red, amber and white - well, with the exception of the turquoise Photon II on my wife's keychain.

The reason I would like to see a low intensity, long life, non-exposed LED (non-exposed to minimize side-visibility / light transmission & visibility to others) is to provide me with an alternative to the red CMG lights I currently use for night map-reading and other maneuvers. A light that is too bright may give me away...and one that is unreliable or has an uncertain lifespan is only a liability.

In short, for me, I would have little need for any other colors besides white and red...well maybe a green one too.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 20, 2002)

*9 days 3 hours and change...and still going.*
It's still reading .209 on the meter. Remember, it started at .280 when I started the test two Fridays ago.


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## dan (Jan 20, 2002)

While we were talking about future products...

I was looking at the deep violet (not to be confused with deep purple) posts regarding the little coin light from china. 

I recently sent peter an email re: adding the 395nm led to the ArcAAA spectrum of colors. He indicated that he had not received any substantial number of requests for the color, but was still investigating it for a possible future product.

I am looking for a short wavelength light with good fluorescing properties, but not as potentially dangerous as the short wave UV - ie: stray eye exposure. I also tried the ArcAAA blue light which actually works fairly well with certain dyes, but I anticipate the deep violet will highlight them better.

any thoughts? any interest in adding the color?

dan


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## Cyclops942 (Jan 21, 2002)

A little gentle prodding, Ken B?


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## JoeyL (Jan 21, 2002)

Peter,

I have fiddled for two straight days with the LS in the 123 version and I have a few constructive comments.

I think a lot of the battery problems stem not only from the foam retainer, but also the fact that the nipple sizes on the batteries are different. This is measurable by a caliper. They are also different in how easily they are deformed by pressure.

I was going to start a thread "Does nipple size or hardness matter" but I figured it would get sent to an adult website.

I enlarged the hole of the retainer foam to find that the central contact on the light head is nearly the same size as the nipple on some cells. I believe in one case while I was trying to get the light to work, it appeared to short out the cell as it became very warm.

The easiest fix for me is to take a bunch of 123 cells, and put a small blob of solder on the nipple, tharefore creating another small nipple. This may be a lot of work for some, but it was no problem for me. I guess I'm a small nipple man...

Every cell I have put in works perfectly with less effort to screw the battery holder in to turn on.

Hope that can be of help...


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## JonSidneyB (Jan 21, 2002)

Gransee, I see that the Arc-LS ordering link has been deactivated and that there will be no Arc-LS's available for several months. Is there any way I can place an order and patiently wait????


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## Gransee (Jan 21, 2002)

Hi Jon, good to see you again. I recognize you as a long standing CPF'er and also an early Arc customer.

We were accepting pre-orders for a while but it just got out of hand. I personally don't like to have a lot of back orders in the system if I can help it. We have stopped producing the Arc-LS right now while we tweak the design. We hope to start fullfilling existing orders by the first of March and accepting new back orders by April.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Jan 21, 2002)

*Arc-LS Update:*

The new masking fixtures have been completed and the anodizing has started up again on the LS metal parts.

The new retainer design was received and tested today. They worked with the 123 pack but I asked our supplier to change the design further to give us more margin for error on the assembly line. 

We are still waiting on more lenses to arrive. They where ordered back in November.

The current version that has shipped has been designated version 0.9.

We are also making the following changes at various points over the next 2 months:

Version 1.0
- Redesigned battery retainer
- Silicone Grease will be applied to the head threads and one power pack attached to keep the grease from drying or leaking during transit (if customer only buys head unit grease will still be applied)
- New method for cleaning lens (should reduce dust count)
- Better education for assemblers on detecting DOA units, gross tint variations, etc.
- Raised knurling plane (same cut depth)
- Improved thread cleanliness and overall anodize finish quality due to improved masking fixtures

After that, planned changes are:

version 1.1
- Kit price increased from $99.95 to $106.45
- deeper cut on knurling
- thread change to make them smoother
- High dome lens ready

Successive improvements to the base design will be designated versions 1.2, 1.3, etc.

Peter Gransee


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## sylvestor (Jan 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Arc-LS Update:

After that, planned changes are:

version 1.1
- Kit price increased from $99.95 to $106.45
- deeper cut on knurling
- thread change to make them smoother
- High dome lens ready

Successive improvements to the base design will be designated versions 1.2, 1.3, etc.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter,

What are high dome lens ? Would this make the LS more brighter ?

thanks,

sylvestor


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## Gransee (Jan 21, 2002)

*Arc-AAA Update:*

The LE is being put on hiatus for 3-6 months until the SB1 LED is available to us again. We should sell out of current inventories in a matter of weeks or days.

The price for the standard Arc-AAA will be increased beginning in the month of February. The higher price units will feature a few design revisions.

Peter Gransee


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 21, 2002)

*Arc-XR-AAA beta update:*
10 days 5 hours, and still at .208 on the meter. Test was started two Fridays ago shortly before 1pm with an initial reading of .280. It sank to .240 within the first day, and to .225 on day 2, then plateau'd off. It has fallen steadily, though only _much more slowly_ ever since.
Talk about getting your money's worth out of a battery...

*Arc-AAA-395 & Arc-AAA-405 update:*
I've taken them out of the "lab" on two seperate occasions to test them in the field. The 395 does light up the UV thingie in money adequately in all conditions tested thus far; the 405nm is more of a decorative item with a unique color that isn't very good for checking money; though many visible dyes and inks will still fluoresce with it.

If you got some of the shorter wavelength ranking 395s, they would give you a very good and long-lasting source for various commodity UV checking, and one wouldn't have to feel guilty about burning through expensive and hard-to-find coin cell batteries every time you turned one on. For this very reason, my Wilycon keychain UV light doesn't get used nearly as much as the Arc, despite having a better LED in it.

The testing venues were various bars just east of downtown Seattle. Lighting varied from "bathroom with 5W nightlight" intensity (you can't see s*** for several minutes after entering!) to near full overcast daylight level. Since I also wanted to test my Light Cannon a couple of more times (knowing it would be dark for the second half of my round-trip), this gave me the perfect opportunity to test the Arc products as well.


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## One001 (Jan 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Arc-LS Update:

- thread change to make them smoother

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter, will the 1.1 head threading be compatible with the 1.0 bodies in case we want to purchase additional different color heads later for use with the extra bodies in the 1.0 kit?


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## Gransee (Jan 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by One001:
*Peter, will the 1.1 head threading be compatible with the 1.0 bodies in case we want to purchase additional different color heads later for use with the extra bodies in the 1.0 kit?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am making a point to have them be backwards compatible. This also saves us from having a bunch of orphaned power packs (we have many more power packs than working illuminator heads as you can imagine).

Peter


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## Lonewolf (Jan 21, 2002)

Peter:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> *The price for the standard Arc-AAA will be increased beginning in the month of February. The higher price units will feature a few design revisions.* <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What revisions are you making to the Arc AAA?

Telephony:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Arc-XR-AAA beta update:
10 days 5 hours, and still at .208 on the meter. Test was started two Fridays ago shortly before 1pm with an initial reading of .280. It sank to .240 within the first day, and to .225 on day 2, then plateau'd off. It has fallen steadily, though only much more slowly ever since.
Talk about getting your money's worth out of a battery... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like this battery will spend the rest of the year in your tester.


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## Sean (Jan 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Arc-LS Update:...
version 1.1
- Kit price increased from $99.95 to $106.45
- deeper cut on knurling
- thread change to make them smoother
- High dome lens ready
...Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When the high dome white LS's are out will they automatically be put into the ARC LS for the $106.45? Will that new price cover the cost of high domes? Or will their be a new ARC LS (version 2, etc.) with white high dome LS's at a higher price?


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 22, 2002)

Hello Peter, I know you are busy trying to refine the LS and also finding Luxeons that are available so this is not a bad comment on your product but a praise, concerning my order if it hasnt shipped already (# 1210) please cancel the Arc AAA because I would rather get the LE version later(in March or so) and as for the LS cancel it and let someone else get theirs ahead of schedule, I would rather wait for a more refined model than purchase one now that is still developing.Its funny that there is two different colors of the Luxeons that I have bought from you and Future, there is a pure white version mixed in with mostly a blue/pink color on 3 different orders, your 4 I bought were the pink/blue, 10 w/o from Future were pure white and then another 25 emitters only were blue/pink again, what is this? Any idea why the color difference? Or could it be the new high domes? I thought only the batwing low domes were in white on all my orders so far from Future. Is your LS the white light or does it have the blue/pink Luxeon color? Thanks Peter


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5BY5:
*Peter:

Sounds like this battery will spend the rest of the year in your tester.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoever was putting bets on it, it's finally over. It croaked sometime overnight, meaning it lasted somewhere between 10.6 and 10.8 days. I won't know the exact figure until I dig into the other computer and get to the datafile.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 22, 2002)

*HELL BOOBS CRAP!!!
CRAP DAMN CRAP!!!*

I just checked the datafile on that 10+ day test run, and guess what?
This is the entire file:
_
01-11-02
12:49:11 DC 0.281 mA
_
Apparently, as soon as the Windows 98 screensaver came on, it s**tcanned the meter application right where it stood!!!
























All that testing for not.


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## Terrapin Flyer (Jan 22, 2002)

Sorry to hear of your test results going astray. I believe Gandalf may have the "cure' for that screen saver, although it will cause significant damage to the PC and WILL wake the neighbors. I believe he can offer you a choice of calibers....


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:
*Sorry to hear of your test results going astray. I believe Gandalf may have the "cure' for that screen saver, although it will cause significant damage to the PC and WILL wake the neighbors. I believe he can offer you a choice of calibers....









*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As long as I can fasten a 2 litre pop bottle over the barrel and load it with fragmentation slugs, it's fine with me.














We know the sample ran for almost 11 days, we just don't know what the discharge curve looks like during the first 24 hours and the last six hours.

What I'll do is run the *other* sample through, and then run the first one through again - sans screensaver of course.




Unless Peter needs them back right away, this is the game plan now.


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## Darell (Jan 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*HELL BOOBS CRAP!!!
CRAP DAMN CRAP!!!
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, we know two things for sure:

a) the cat did it
b) The thing runs for at least 10 frigging days!


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## Terrapin Flyer (Jan 22, 2002)

There may be a trend here Peter should be aware of. Telephony, can you test for a correlation btwn. cats and LS problems? Perhaps the combination of a lie detector and your light meter will do the trick.


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## rigormootis (Jan 22, 2002)

10+ days!!!



I MUST have one!


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 22, 2002)

Sorry to hear about this misfortune...as long as the test is a bust can you please take a moment and tell us about the lights.

How do they compare to other lights. 

Photon 3 on low? On medium?

Infinity (a good one)?

The standard Arc?

Any thing else you can think of to aid us in deciding if we want this thing.

Thanks


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 22, 2002)

John at Ledcorp has told me there are more variations in the Ls`s than you can shake a stick at...Lumiled is not sorting them into any sort of ranking yet. So don`t expect any two, even if order from the same location, to be the same. My understanding is the white high domes will be out in about two months, but we all know how good these predictions are. Lunileds is also playing with a new design called "side emitters". From what little I know about them they fire 360 degrees out to the side...therefore they need a reflector to work...of coures they are supposed to be super bright...we`ll see. I am also told they have a few other tricks their working on with the standard designs...again supposed to improve the brightness...but thats all I can get out of them. Maybe someone else can pump them for Info better than me. But either way we should see some neat stuff in the next year.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
*Lunileds is also playing with a new design called "side emitters". From what little I know about them they fire 360 degrees out to the side...therefore they need a reflector to work...of coures they are supposed to be super bright...we`ll see.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've actually seen a photograph of one of these. They look like something you'd see floating around in deep space on a Star Trek episode... really bizarre looking things.

Unfortunately, I am not yet allowed to show the picture to anybody else. As soon as that restriction is no more, I'll post it here.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
*Sorry to hear about this misfortune...as long as the test is a bust can you please take a moment and tell us about the lights.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The timing is both perfect and sucks like a bad vacume cleaner at the same time.

I'm now devoting nearly 100% of my time & efforts*** to a short-term beta test on another new LED product that might come out in a couple of months. The big box of parts and a set of NDA papers came this afternoon, and I just finished assembling the parts and firing it up for the first time.
I can't say anything more about it yet, but since it is now functioning under its own power, I can take the time to do these flashlight comparisons for you.

I'll have to *LOOK* for my only white Infinity, but I'm pretty sure where all the other lights are.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
*How do they compare to other lights. 

Photon 3 on low? On medium?
Infinity (a good one)?
The standard Arc?

Any thing else you can think of to aid us in deciding if we want this thing.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Photon 3... found.
actually, I found all three. Let's find the newest version and use that.
There.. that's a new version, in disuse for months but still works like brand new (they did fix a battery-draining circuit that kept cropping up in the old).





The "11-Day" Arc is functionally equivalent in brightness to the new-version P3 on the lowest setting, but the Arc's LED has a slightly yellowish or yellowish-green overall tint, while the P3's was more bluish.

A standard white Arc AAA is many times brighter than the 11-Day Arc. 
The difference is initially estimated at 700% to 900%. The 11-Day's output is like a *bright* moon mode in a regular Arc.

A new-style white Infinity with alkaline battery is only *slightly* brighter than the 11-Day Arc, and that may be due to the higher color temperature. The Infinity has a bluish LED not unlike the P3, while the 11-Day has a more warm-colored LED in it.
The difference between the two is estimated at 20%, and is more noticeable at long distances than it is close up.
I don't know how my Infinity compares to others, as this is the only white model I have.

***_Don't worry about the Arc beta tests not getting done. As these are largely unattended tests, the other product won't be in the way and both can be done at once._


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 22, 2002)

Ok... the _other_ Arc XR beta.

About half the brightness of a standard white Arc-AAA, with again, a greenish tinted white LED.

At least a third brighter than a white Infinity.

Slightly dimmer than the P3 on High, noticeably brighter than the P3 on Medium.


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## vcal (Jan 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Ok... the other Arc XR beta.

About half the brightness of a standard white Arc-AAA, with again, a greenish tinted white LED.

At least a third brighter than a white Infinity.

Slightly dimmer than the P3 on High, noticeably brighter than the P3 on Medium.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting that both of those 5mA and 15mA XR-beta units had the "S" Nichia installed........


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:
*There may be a trend here Peter should be aware of. Telephony, can you test for a correlation btwn. cats and LS problems? Perhaps the combination of a lie detector and your light meter will do the trick.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


This is one thing I am not equipped to test, as I don't have a cat and I don't know anybody local to me who does. I have a big pet rat and a pair of bottom sucker fish, and that's it.

I'm going to work on the computer (add hardware that might make it possible to run ProMetric and the meter together), test the combination, and re-run the Arc series sometime later tonight if successful.


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## arab (Jan 23, 2002)

Different types of XRs???

Sorry - I must have missed it in the post which introduced the XR (Some of these ARC posts get very long ...), but are there 2 types of XRs or are the differences just down to production tolerances?

<CRAZY DREAM MODE ON>
And I know this is sounding *distinctly* like a broken record, but imagine if we could have a switch to go from normal output to (let's call it) XR output. Think of the benefits to your battery life and (much more importantly) your relationship with the person who tries to sleep next to you while you read.
<CRAZY DREAM MODE OFF>


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## Klaus (Jan 23, 2002)

arab,

yup - this would be the ultimate ARC-AAA - selectable between "standard" and "extended" maybe a tiny switch somewhere inside - but it is really so small - where to fit ? - I guess Peter would need to put two resistors or so inside and make it switchable - hmmh - he might not use any resistors anyway - question is if the small PCB would be able to accomodate such a feature - maybe we can put this in our wish-list for version 3.x ? Or some discussion if some little additional length (which might be needed) would be tolerable for this added feature - but Peter might not want to change the housing due to cost considerations - and after all - all us freaks will buy more ARC-AAAs anyway.

But in my eyes such a ARC AAA combo (std & xr combined) would make the uber-perfect keyring flashlight and more ----

Klaus


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Ok... the other Arc XR beta.

About half the brightness of a standard white Arc-AAA, with again, a greenish tinted white LED.

At least a third brighter than a white Infinity.

Slightly dimmer than the P3 on High, noticeably brighter than the P3 on Medium.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I found my new camping light if this ever goes into production.


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## busbar (Jan 24, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*HELL BOOBS CRAP!!!
CRAP DAMN CRAP!!!
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Next time don't forget *poop* and *fart*_!!!_


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 24, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by busbar:
*Next time don't forget poop and fart!!!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I should have peppered my last message with those expletives... turns out the Olympic Torch passed right in front of my door earlier this evening and I MISSED IT!!!
#*$&#*($^@#&*(#@$^#$

*Hell Damn Crap Boobs Fart Poop!!*

Anyway... I still have not reconfigured the "new" computer, and thus have not yet re-started the Arc XR tests. I'll get to it before the end of this week though.
Maybe tomorrow, if I'm ambitious and feel like disembowelling the computer and re-doing the hardware.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 24, 2002)

I'm all for the XR version in both white and green.

Currently, I use a white Infinity for reading maps while using NVG's - the white is great for color reproduction - and I use the green light for other in-cockpit tasks.

The Arc AAA in white (the only one I have) is just too bright for use under NVG's and they cause the goggles to "shut-down" - not to mention that it causes me to lose my dark adaptation.





Right now, the Infinity's are just too heavy and cumbersome, so an Arc AAA XR would be absolutely perfect!

Add my name to the "I've just GOTTA have one of those!" list.


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## Gransee (Jan 24, 2002)

I received a LS return this week that was not posted here on the CPF. In fact it is the first LS return we have received. 

Both lights in the return worked to spec. I was a bit curious so I called the customer to find out why they were returned.

The reason for the return was the beam quality of the LS LED. Specifically the centering of the beam, the yellow corona and the blobby center.

I explained that these where all normal for the LS LED and within spec. I told him that I would post another note on the CPF further warning people about this LED so they are not surprised when they receive their LS.

Other LED flashlights of this brightness level utilize a cluster of Nichia 5mm LEDs. Although the Nichia cluster will be bulkier, not throw as far and be less efficient, they will produce a smoother, more uniform beam. 

This is caused by several factors:
1. Nichia LED technology is older (or "more established") and therefore they can provide precise half -step bin ranking. This provides a more uniform tint and brightness among multiple samples.
2. The Nichia Die operates at a lower surface energy. I venture to say that they are also more uniform (less "hotspots"). This provides less tint/brightness/beam uniformity variations.
3. The Nichia integral lens is less focused. This tends to blur any hotspots or beam imperfections and makes centering less of an issue. In the LS, the higher magnification used in the lens also magnifys the features of the die/bond/phosphor. If you stare at a LS beam w/optics you can see quite a few details in the beam. I think this more focused lens in conjunction with a different phosphor geometry also creates the "corona" effect.
4. Used in an array, the multiple light sources blur together and hide imperfections compared to a single point source LED.

Of course at this point, some may ask, "why even use the LS LED?". Because it is more compact, efficient and focused.

Lumileds is refining their technology. However, I sometimes get the impression that beam quality takes a slower track than their die output research. They really do have the best dies going as far as sheer luminosity.

Will the LS LED reach Nichia smoothness while maintaining their efficiency edge? Probably not this year.

So the question I pose to you today is: Is it worth using a LED with a inferior beam quality just because it produces more lumens for a given size and power source?

Incidentally, the two units that where returned where very quickly "reassigned". We didn't have any production LS at all since we shipped every single one of them to you. One is going to Gibson and the other one is now my EDC.





Peter Gransee


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## geepondy (Jan 24, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
So the question I pose to you today is: Is it worth using a LED with a inferior beam quality just because it produces more lumens for a given size and power source?
Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a word, "Yes". Having only the Nichia's to compare it to, I too was initially disappointed in the beam characteristics. The light however, has grown on me. In every day use, the imperfections are not readily noticable unless you are looking for them. In fact, probably the off centeredness of the LED bothers me more then the beam imperfections.

I use it for certain applications that were formally reserved for Surefires. I used to have certain applications for LED lights and certain applications for higher powered incandescent lamps. This light has helped bridged the gap. Once it becomes about twice as bright, it will do so further.

From this and another post, you sound like you have second thoughts on whether you should have started this project. I would hope that the overwelming favorable response and back ordered sales has helped validate and reinforce your decision to initiate and continue to proceed with this product. The majority of us flashaholics are certainly thankful.


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## Gransee (Jan 24, 2002)

Thanks Geepondy. Oh, we are definately going forward with this. The light has grown on me too.

Btw, here's the beam of one of the returned units (#22).







My Kodak DC280 2MP digital can't do the picture justice though. In real life the beam is more detailed. You can see a square bat-wing type outline in the center with 4 blobby hotspots and 4 shadows. The coronoa is more yellow-white while the center is more blue-white.

Btw, our Lumiled sales rep just returned my call while I was editing this message. The latest high dome white shipping date projection is May1st. I would recommend you expect them several months after that just to be safe.

About the same time they expect to release their new die technology. It uses a three-letter code name and as Ken says, is "side firing", etc. Our rep says that this will improve the beam quality. They are also making improvements to the die composition and efficiencies will steadily increase to X amount by May and X amount by the end of the year. It may be the end of the year before efficiency in the white is 2X where it is right now. It may be longer.

He is trying to get me samples of the high dome whites. I will probally see them around April or May. 

I would expect to start seing the HD/XXX whites in LS flashlights by September/November.

Peter Gransee


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## sunspot (Jan 24, 2002)

Peter. If you get anymore returns due to "beam disappointment" all I can say is: *DIBS, SEND IT ON TO ME*.
P.S. Reserve one the sept/oct light's for me.


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## Gransee (Jan 24, 2002)

OK, we got the third edition of the LS retainers last night. I tested them today and I think they will do the trick. I have ordered a bunch of them and we will be sending them out to all the LS holders for "advanced field testing"



. If you guys approve them, they will be the official design. We hope to ship them next week.

Here's how you change the retainer on your LS:

Before and after (Design 1 on the left, Design 3 on the right. Design 2 didn't work)






Get your tools together. You can use needle nose, forceps, etc. I found that careful use of a flat blade screwdriver works best for me. Be careful not to scratch the center gold pad. Scratching the outer gold ring is ok since it is a heat sink.






Scrape out the foam retainer.






Here's a shot with most of the retainer removed. The little bits and pieces take the longest time.






Peel the back of the retainer, don't touch the sticky surface with your fingers or anything else.






Drop the retainer in and align it with the screwdriver. Once it is completely lined up, tamp it down (I use the butt end of the screwdriver) to activate the adhesive.






Test it with all the packs to make sure it works perfectly!






I have done 3 of these so far and I got it down to easily less than 5 minutes. They seem to work pretty well. Friction is higher with these I noticed because they press against the wrapper of the battery more than the metal of the battery.

If this is too complicated, or you don't want to bother, you can send your unit back and we will do it for you.

Peter Gransee


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 24, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*

Lumileds is refining their technology. However, I sometimes get the impression that beam quality takes a slower track than their die output research. They really do have the best dies going as far as sheer luminosity.

Will the LS LED reach Nichia smoothness while maintaining their efficiency edge? Probably not this year.

So the question I pose to you today is: Is it worth using a LED with a inferior beam quality just because it produces more lumens for a given size and power source? *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I beleive I was among those who asked you if you could use the LS when Chris first heard a rumour about them...at that time you did not think they would work because they used so much power...but everyone, including me kept pestering you. So I hate to say this...I would put off further development on the LS.

A: The high domes will be out soon.

B: The side emitters which are supposed to be even brighter will need a reflector...{Lumileds may market a mini reflecter setup for this purpose} 

C: The rumour of a new heatsinking concept may be true...and might not fit in the current head.

D: The LS quality is not yet conistant from light to light and could tarnish the wonderfull reputation you have built...dispite your best efforts. (poor centering, poor color, moon appearing in beam.. ect)

E: Surfire deciding to offer a regulated LS (they have great refector technology)

What would I recommend? I would put the LS on the back burner for the time being and give Lumileds the time they need to get it right...then see if you still want to move along these lines. 

A: Focus on improving the current AAA Arc...improve contact points to stop flickering

B: Bring to the table an AA that runs one 5mm at full brightness, 9000 mcd (if the rumours are true).

C: Continue to look for new markets and improve the assembly process. (volume, speed ect...would Walmart be interested in this fine product?)

And finaly, hope everyone doesn`t shoot you at once.


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## Gransee (Jan 24, 2002)

Ken, yeah I wasn't a LS convert at first. 

So how about the rest of the CPF? What do think about this?

- The HD/XXX sample I saw had the primary reflector as part of the LED package. But it still used a prismatic lens to finish the job. Our rep seems to think that it will be no problem to drop it into our Arc-LS design.

We are planning to eventually do away with the lens and use a custom reflector instead. This will make the flashlight more compact and further improve the beam. R&D on the new reflector so far has been slow going and it will probally not be seen until the end of the year.

- The heatsinking I saw looked basically the same as well. They may change it again of course but it is a minor factor since we use our own heatsink.

- Although our rep says that quality will greatly improve with the new design, we will have to wait and see. Either way I am under the impression that either LED will fit in our current LS design.

- Is Surefire working on a LS design? They would be wise to do so. I know they purchased some samples from us a while back.

We have quite a few Arc-LSs on back order. Unless everyone cancels their order and decides to wait until the end of the year, we are going to continue to produce flashlights using the batwing emitter. Once the lambertian (HD) and side firing technolgies are perfected and available and actually are shipped (we are *still* waiting for our order of batwings from last November!), then we will just issue another improvement to the Arc-LS design.

Your right about focusing on the Arc-AAA as the primary product. The first of February I will be posting here about revisions 2.5 and 3.0.

So we will continue to make the Arc-LS. When the newer technologies actually arrive here at our door, we will incorporate them as quickly as possible. Since we already have a design in place it will take less time to refit it with the new LED than a competitor. You the customer has the choice of canceling your pre-order, waiting for the HD models, go buy a Nichia array flashlight, etc.

Peter Gransee


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## Lonewolf (Jan 24, 2002)

Peter Surefire has announced a Luxeon LED with regulator that will be available after the SHOT show. It is designed to work off their 2 x 123 line of lights.

Could be one of the reasons you have had a hard time getting bulbs.


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## Gransee (Jan 24, 2002)

Really. Well a LS with regulator and a lithium battery sounds like a great idea.





Oh I am such a smarty.





Where was this mentioned?

Peter


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## Lonewolf (Jan 24, 2002)

Peter here is the thread.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=001559


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## sflate (Jan 24, 2002)

Peter, Count me in for an Arc-LS whenever more become available. As someone in the Computer field I know how quickly things are improved upon. If we wait until the next version is produced(side firing,etc..)I'm sure there will be something new 'just on the horizon'. I say build the best you can with whats out there currently. I will buy it. And, if you significantly improve on that, I will buy another one. I'm sure I can make someone very happy by giving them the first model. I bought the Arc-aaa when it came out, and bought 2 LE models when they came out. I gave the Arc-aaa away and love my LEs.


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## vcal (Jan 24, 2002)

I'll _second_ what sflate just said.


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## Gransee (Jan 24, 2002)

I hear you. We will keep plugging away and improving our products.

Thanks 5BY5 for the link. This is good news for the whole LED industry. Having a manufacturer the size of SF further their commitment to LEDs is more proof that LEDs are the future. Also, more manufacturers using the LS LED helps lumileds improve their product and educate the general consumer on the advantages of the LS.

Peter Gransee


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 24, 2002)

Peter please do not give up, I too know about Luxeons and their availability, I recently had to buy 25 of the bare emitters to continue with my flashlight mods and as far as Surefire stealing the luxeon spotlight so to speak forget it,yes they will come out with a Luxeon, maybe just one who knows yet, most average people only connect Surefire to law enforcement if they even knew where to buy one.Also is their pricing. And there is the fact that they sell a LOT of batteries, why? because the lamps _eat them up!_ Myself I will buy a Centurion ($101 at TTS)and fit 3, yes 3 bare Luxeon emitters in it, now I suppose the light output shall be grand, but instead of a battery run time of less than an hour I should be able to get several or more, especially if its regulated. the Luxeon is the ticket, its just starting to develope much like a 386 went on to a Pentium IV. And so shall the availability and pricing. Keep your product available, approach Snap-On tools, they turned me down but Matco will sell my Brinkmann mods, both the single 6400 Nichia in a 1AAA and its larger brother in the AA case with the Luxeon. BTW I still want an LS, can I get one say about March? Thanks


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## JoeyL (Jan 24, 2002)

Peter, 
I must be lucky. My LS has a near perfect beam as far as I can tell. (SN#0017).
I have 4 Bare LS'es I bought from you to play with and they all look ok to me. So either I'm lucky to have all good leds or I'm easy to please. I would gladly purchase another Arc LS when available just as is.

Of course if you improve it I have no objection. Just my opinion.

JoeyL


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## Lonewolf (Jan 24, 2002)

Peter my main area of concern is the consistency of the color of the beam if I order a white I don't want to get some strange tint so I will wait until that hurdle is cleared and then of course I will buy one. Probably more than one I am a flashaholic.

Just curious but are all the Arc AAA now HA type III because maybe I will pick up a few more of those in the meantime.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 24, 2002)

The new test of the beta Arc series is underway. As far as I can determine, the meter software can only be operated in full-screen DOS mode, and will cease to function if it is allowed to become minimized by a screensaver, or is minimized intentionally.

A one-trick pony if ever I saw one.
Sure beats sitting at the computer and babysitting for hours or day on end though.





I hope nobody asks for ProMetric readings for awhile.


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5BY5:
*Peter Surefire has announced a Luxeon LED with regulator that will be available after the SHOT show. It is designed to work off their 2 x 123 line of lights.

Could be one of the reasons you have had a hard time getting bulbs.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt if this has anything to do with the difficulty getting the LS`s...I will be very surprised if the Surefire LS uses the optical lens...I expect them to use a modifide 6 sided star with their own reflector. Not the one`s currently used in the Arc.


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 25, 2002)

What`s wrong with this thread...I have to run to the right...then run to the left to read. I`m not so young anymore...don`t you know.


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## sunspot (Jan 25, 2002)

Peter. Keep my order pending. Ship when you can. If the new HD's are incorporated at a later date I feel that you would do everything in your power to make them retrofit to the older ones. That way I would only have to buy a new head to have two flashlights.....cool with me.
P.S. Don't forget I called dibs on the next return.


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## Glow Bug (Jan 25, 2002)

Peter,
I will be buying an ARC LS this year if it is still offered and I really hope it will be. I am glad to hear you will be developing a reflector. I think with your design capabilities, you will have one nice product...(make that 2) I love both of my ARC LEs too!


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## arab (Jan 25, 2002)

Gransee said
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Your right about focusing on the Arc-AAA as the primary product. The first of February I will be posting here about revisions 2.5 and 3.0.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a member of this forum I feel duty-bound to send my own wish list for the AAA (In the unlightly event that you might not remember my previous posts on this matter!):
*<BROKEN RECORD MODE ON>*
1) More than one output level - user selectable
2) Better contacts
3) Proper beam centering
3) Recover space required for switch in 1) above with a redesign of the base: Use the space taken up by the current semi-circle to hold a switch, and use a swivelling countersunk D-Ring to allow keyring attachement. 
4) I'm personally not too concerned about different colours. Black and existing LE colours are fine.
5) Figure out what to do about about a replacement for the higher output LE LED. All the above will look a little irrelevant if the resulting torch is dimmer in full power mode.
6) Marketing: Split the AAA into 2 torches:
a) A blister-packed AAA much like what's there at the moment. Make loads of them so they can be as cheap as possible and appeal to the "non-addicted to Torches" outdoor types.
b) A CPF/"Addicted to Torches" special - The ARC AAA ATT?. The price in unimportant. _Normal_ people will probably never spend more than €5 (less than $5 for those not Euro-Aware) on a torch, CPF'ers will spend whatever it takes. Include all the above features, then put my name on the list.
*<BROKEN RECORD MODE OFF>*

Just my Euro's worth ...

All the best
Alan Rabbitte
<edited>


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## papasan (Jan 25, 2002)

telephony, there should be a properties value for the dos window (hit alt-enter if you need to to un-full-screen it)...that is called 'suspend in background' and also one to 'allow screen saver'...try turning 'suspend in background' off...i can't remember the exact names because i'm running winXP now and it's a totally different animal...also, you may need to make a shortcut to the .exe and then mes with the shortcut properties to make it permanent...


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## Joe Talmadge (Jan 25, 2002)

I'm thrilled to pieces with my 123A LS, now that I opened up the hole. Peter, are you going to send the new foam rings to all LS customers, including everyone who ordered from TTS?

I am happy with the beam. Compared to my LED lights with Nichias, the Nichia lights look positively purple compared to the LS, which looks very white by contrast. When I compare the LS to something like a Surefire, the violet center and yellow ring become more apparent. I think I'm so happy with the LS based mostly on expectations. I got a beam that's much whiter than Nichias, which was more than what I was hoping for. Apparently, a lot of other folks were expecting incandescent-like whiteness, and those people must have been disappointed.

I do believe the Arc LS can compete with the SureFire LS, even though the SureFire is also regulated and may use their great reflector technology. With SureFire, you're putting an LED in a much bigger and more expensive package with the M2. The Arc is not only smaller, but it's got the advantage of multiple battery packs. I will own both. I don't think one product is a slam dunk to outcompete the other based strictly on the technical merits -- I'd be more worried about what must be SureFire's vastly superior marketing, name-recognition, and channels.

Joe

Joe


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## Carpe Diem (Jan 25, 2002)

Peter... you will do just fine competing with the Sure Fire LED.

As you have already said, their venture into your area of expertise will help create an even greater interest in the world of LED`s, and to your benefit.

The classic Sure Fire customer is after an extremely bright beam of light that can be thrown a long distance. They`re typically not "task light" people.

If they become interested in the LED lights, however, they will even more quickly discover what I definitely believe is a better LED system... your new LS`s and your already great AAA`s.

Additionally, one of your best assets, besides the high quality of you products, is your legendary attention to good customer service. Quite frankly, absolutely no one, including Sure Fire, can come close to you in that regard. You will always have a truly loyal (and ever expanding) customer base so long as you keep that excellent policy in place.

Forever keep the faith... and keep up the good work!


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 25, 2002)

Ok... looks like the 15mA arc has bitten the big one. better get out Photoshop and make you a chart.
Be back shortly.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 25, 2002)




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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 25, 2002)

Wow... what the heck was that?
Two pictures got merged into one?!?

Oh well... the graph ended up on top.


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 26, 2002)

The run time/brightness looks good for the 15 ma. I`m not interested in the other one...to dim for me.

That toilet really hates anything to do with flashlights. Not only does it eat them, now it`s going after the graphs. If I were you I`d just s**t in the damm thing.


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## L.E.D. (Jan 26, 2002)

Mr. Gransee:

Are all colors out of stock until April, or would I be able to get a Cyan head with the AA compartments by February?


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## protodoc (Jan 26, 2002)

Please, please, please let the 5mA AAA XR become a reality. To each their own.
In the search of dimness, protodoc

(Lest you think I am kidding, I am after a night time reading torch.)


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 26, 2002)

Protodoc, my moma always said you should use plenty of light when you read. I didn`t listen to moma and now I need glasses. Moma knows best.


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## sflate (Jan 26, 2002)

Telephony,
Could you add the Arc-AAA LE to the chart with the 5ma and 15ma? I'd like to see how they compare. What is the ma draw of the LE?


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## Darell (Jan 26, 2002)

The AAA 15ma is the one for me. Sign me up (again).

And still the big question Craig - how do the XR light outputs compare to the standards (Arc AAA, and Infinity)? That will answer all of my (current) questions on the subject! I know everybody has been asking... I didn't miss the answer did I?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Ok... the other Arc XR beta.

About half the brightness of a standard white Arc-AAA, with again, a greenish tinted white LED.

At least a third brighter than a white Infinity.

Slightly dimmer than the P3 on High, noticeably brighter than the P3 on Medium.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yup Darell, you missed it. But I agree with you, sign me up for 15 mA.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 26, 2002)

What if white LEDs became 3x brighter in the next year or two? Would people prefer an ARC AAA 3x brighter and still 5hrs sun/5hrs moon mode, or would people prefer an ARC AAA with current brightness and 15hrs sun/15hrs moon? 

My personal opinion: its bright enough, bring on the long battery life! But what do other people think?


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 26, 2002)

Brighter better.


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## Carpe Diem (Jan 26, 2002)

For Arc`s, "brighter better" is definitely the answer. 

You can always buy other, and less interesting, lights for longer run times.

Keep the Arc`s exciting... and as bright as possible!


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## Gransee (Jan 26, 2002)

Carpe Diem is right, the Arc philosophy is to make small, bright as possible lights that are durable and cost effective to own.

The only reason the XR was considered was because of a large request. We may also provide them in limited quanities to the public at a later date. But not at the expense of advancing our primary products.

Peter Gransee


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## Go Go Gadget Flashlight (Jan 26, 2002)

If I remember right, Peter laid out the Arc philosophy a while back... "To make the brightest, smallest flashlights out there."

I may have remembered it wrong, but that's the impression I got.



I think Arc is doing a great job.





I'm tickled sh**less with my LS #19.



Yes, I had to remove the battery foam and the lens is a little speckled. But, I got one of the first of a new line of flashlights from a great company that has bent over backwards to listen to us about what we wanted in a light.





[EDIT] Apparently, I take too long writing my posts.



Peter beat me to the reply himself!



At least I remembered it correctly.


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## Joe Talmadge (Jan 26, 2002)

5 hours plenty. Brighter better.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 26, 2002)

Well said Peter, it almost sounds like a Special Forces requirement for remote locations, I may also presume Lithium batteries were tested as well for cold climate? Naww don't answer if its a National security issue. I wonder sometimes to what extent NASA is using LEDs or even Luxeons, I do know the Brinkmann flashlights is endorsed by NASA though I do not know if its used on the shuttle or on the Intl. space station. The luxeon would make a great illuminator if it works well in space, any guess how it may fare? Just a loose topic for a slow night.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sflate:
*Telephony,
Could you add the Arc-AAA LE to the chart with the 5ma and 15ma? I'd like to see how they compare. What is the ma draw of the LE?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I don't have an LE. You'll have to find somebody else with an ordinary silicon solar cell and a DMM to do that one for you.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*The AAA 15ma is the one for me. Sign me up (again).

And still the big question Craig - how do the XR light outputs compare to the standards (Arc AAA, and Infinity)? That will answer all of my (current) questions on the subject! I know everybody has been asking... I didn't miss the answer did I?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must have missed it. I answered this right after the first test went **** up a few daysago.


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## Darell (Jan 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lightboy:
*
Yup Darell, you missed it. But I agree with you, sign me up for 15 mA.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lightboy - 

Well, crap. Thanks. I'm on here what? Ten times a day reading posts? How do I miss the ones I'm actually LOOKING for? That's what I needed. 

And thanks of course to Craig as well... There it is back on page 9. Serves me right for just clicking on the last page of the thread each time. Shot right over the good stuff. What would we do without you Craig? I know that I, for one, would be in the dark.


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## Darell (Jan 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lightboy:
*What if white LEDs became 3x brighter in the next year or two? Would people prefer an ARC AAA 3x brighter and still 5hrs sun/5hrs moon mode*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes.

* <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>, or would people prefer an ARC AAA with current brightness and 15hrs sun/15hrs moon? 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And Yes. As I've said before, I'd be thrilled to have a way to switch between bright and super-long battery life. Right now I simply use an Infinity when I want long run-time, and my Arc when I want to see something. Be great to have that in a single light for camping, etc.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 26, 2002)

OOOps you may be letting the cat out of the bag to somebodys present R&D but really if I had Peters LS I would install a switch to do just that, to make the chip put out minimal power for endurance.


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## Darell (Jan 27, 2002)

Oh, I know Peter has been looking at a switch option for quite some time now, since many of us have been hankering (and pestering him) for it. It's a tough issue due to size, reliability and cost - but I still think it is an important avenue to pursue. Just like I now carry a video camera and a still camera to get everything I want (yes, I know combos are available at extremely high prices, but none of them offer the quality of either format that I'm looking for), I also have to carry two flashlights for my two basic needs.

My hope is that a switch can be developed that will, with a single twist on, be full bright. And with a quick off-on twist at any time, go into battery-preserve (15ma?) mode. Reliability, actually, is my biggest concern as well.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*My hope is that a switch can be developed that will, with a single twist on, be full bright. And with a quick off-on twist at any time, go into battery-preserve (15ma?) mode. Reliability, actually, is my biggest concern as well.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would rule. I'd buy 10 of those. And if it had a luminescent hard anodized body, I'd go bankrupt buying them.

Look: luminescent anodized aluminum DOES exist (ugly color, but right idea): http://www.leatherman.com/products/tools/kf4/default.asp


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## Darell (Jan 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lightboy:
*That would rule. I'd buy 10 of those.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

Only ten? Then what would you do for gifts?





<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*
And if it had a luminescent hard anodized body, I'd go bankrupt buying them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

You and me both. When Peter pops back on to announce that he'll be doing it, I'll have to excuse myself and go change my shorts.


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## Gransee (Jan 27, 2002)

"Luminescent hard anodize"? Hard anodize or "HA TYPE III" is not available in that bright color. If you want a bright color, you have to use type II, plastic or paint. 

From what I understand, HA makes the dye seem murky and dark. You'll see that in the CPF blue test that I should be getting back this coming week. Even without any dye, clear HA ("natural") makes the metal appear dark gray-green (the LE and LS finish).

I think we can agree that it would be better to have the HA with a dull color than a Type II with a bright color. Of course we could offer both, but I would like to try shipping a product on time for once first before we start branching out.

Did that sound right? I have been kinda grouchy lately and not sure if my posts are as friendly as usual.

Papasan, you'll probally notice from my reply in the main forum to your switch question that I have been working the switch problem for some time. I think we are getting closer to a good design but I shouldn't talk about it until we actually have inventory or at least a refined prototype. But this will be awhile since fullfilling back orders is the "first order of business" around here.

A switch has become more important in my opinion because the LS-123 is difficult to turn on with one hand. The switch we go with will be simple of course to maximize its reliability. I would say we might see something before Christmas. Too soon to say really with any accuracy.

Peter Gransee


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## Flagone (Jan 27, 2002)

I lubed my Arc LS up with some spray on silicon lube. It seems to work pretty smoothly now. I couldn't find any silicon lube in a grease form.

Is this sufficient maintenance? Will it damage the o-ring or do I need different lube for that?

I also have some lanoguard which is made from lanolin, sheep oil



I haven't tried it yet. http://www.ramshead.com.au/ 

For other people with Arc LSs, something to watch out for is don't use AA batteries with a point on the positive nib like so __--^--__. I was using them for a little while and they rammed a couple of divets into the terminal plate.


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## Spidey82 (Jan 27, 2002)

I hope the ARC-XR will be real.....
dime mode(15ma)when on, a quick off and den on again for *Brightness*.
basically two modes will be enough.
Linfeng


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## John Dickinson (Jan 27, 2002)

For those looking for silicone lubricant, try a swimming pool supply store. They sell it to lubricate o-rings and valves. One ounce will set you back about four or five dollars and would last Arc's manufacturing line a year or more! The brand I have is Aladdin Silicone Magic Lube® II.


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## papasan (Jan 28, 2002)

personally i think a combination of the two most asked for modifications would be best...

a smart switch with different ouput levels...a smart PWM controller would probably work out very well, it is pretty flexable for dimming and pulsing/strobing...

and the switch should be, of course, a tail cap switch...

how to do this efficiently and reliably would take some work though...and, i'm sure, more money =P...but a variable output Arc-LS would be most excellent...


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## Harrkev (Jan 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*"Luminescent hard anodize"? Hard anodize or "HA TYPE III" is not available in that bright color. If you want a bright color, you have to use type II, plastic or paint. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For those of us who want some "glow-in-the-dark" functionality, you could try adding some of that wonderful glow powder (discussed elsewhere on this forum) to the potting plastic/epoxy used in the head. Then, the LED would glow for hours after the unit is turned off.

This is my vote for "best new feature" to add to the AAA, and would not require any re-tooling. Just add powder to the potting material.

<BEG>
PLEASE PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE WITH SYRUP AND SUGAR!
</BEG>


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## Gransee (Jan 28, 2002)

*Arc-AAA Update:*

Yikes! The SHOT show is this coming weekend. You've probably noticed your favorite Arc dealers have been out of stock lately. We have held back inventory to present at the SHOT show. Shipments should get back to normal 2 weeks after the show.

The Arc-AAA LE is on "hiatus" for a undetermined amount of time since Nichia cannot say when they will get more of the SB1 LEDs. We are not taking back orders for the LE until we have a firm shipping date- which may be later this year.

All is not lost however, the HA TypeIII finish in black is being added to the standard Arc-AAA models. This addition is part of the major 3.0 version upgrade. Of course, the cost of the standard Arc has increased as well.

Version 2.5 will only appear at the shot show and it being quickly replaced by version 3.0 (which will also be at the show in smaller quantities).

Here's what the Arc-AAA 3.0 adds:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Price increased from $24.95 to $28.95 for white, red, blue, green, turquoise, amber, orange and IR. UV is still $44.95
<LI>SB2 rank Nichia (standard blueish tint) in the whites, new LEDs for the red, amber, orange (brighter and smoother, esp the red looks nice), Nichias also in the turquiose, green, blue and UV.
<LI>Type III HA finish in black
<LI>Waterproof now to 10 feet
<LI>Retail rack ready blister pack with color insert, Duracell alkaline AAA cell, warranty, instructions, etc.
<LI>ChemKote interior and threads ("Clear anodine"). Smoother threads, better PCB grounding, improves corrosion resistance and also looks nice (adds an easy to notice gold tint to the _interior_).
[/list]

Version 3.0 will be showcased at the show this weekend and will begin shipping to our dealers/distributors and web customers 2 weeks later.

Peter Gransee


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## Chris M. (Jan 28, 2002)

I like those upgrades- apart from the price-going-up one! But if it`s necessary to ensure the continued quality of Arc products, then I`m not complaining.


Now, I know I say this every time you announce a new product or upgrade to an existing one, so why break with tradition?

Will the Reviewers see samples of the new improved product?



I havn`t seen one later than V2.1 (not counting the LE).

I`d just go and buy one, but I`m _supposed_ to be saving for a Maxa Beam (want to be the first reviewer to get hold of one! Am I totally mad? No, don`t answer that one), and not doing so well. Add that to a temporary cut in my working hours and I just can`t afford to. Especially not if the CPF special edition will be avaliable soon- got to get me one of those no matter what.


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## Gransee (Jan 28, 2002)

Thanks Chris! It is sad to see the LE go out of production for awhile but at least the Type III HA is still available in black.

I would love to send you a couple of samples of the new Arc-AAA and Arc-LS and see what you think of them. I still feel bad about not sending you your own LS prototype. I do plan on shipping you some samples eventually.

My first responsibility though is to ship to all those people who have been patiently waiting for our production units.

Peter


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## Empath (Jan 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Arc-AAA Update:
Version 2.5 will only appear at the shot show and it being quickly replaced by version 3.0 (which will also be at the show in smaller quantities).

Here's what the Arc-AAA 3.0 adds:..........
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there a way of knowing which versions of Arc AAA we have without knowing what each particular change was in each version? Is there perhaps a code somewhere? There aren't really many places to put a code though.


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## Chris M. (Jan 29, 2002)

_My first responsibility though is to ship to all those people who have been patiently waiting for our production units._

I can`t argue with that- after all, you _are_ actually running a business!


Waiting patiently also....


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## Chris M. (Jan 29, 2002)

_Is there a way of knowing which versions of Arc AAA we have without knowing what each particular change was in each version? Is there perhaps a code somewhere? _

No codes that I know of. There are ways of telling between some of them though, as some of the changes are relatively easy to spot. On my review page of the Arc-AAA, one of the few I`ve finished so far, down the page a bit I`ve got the proto, v2.0 and v2.1 compared side by side. I expect a v2.5 or v3 would look noticeably different in some aspects too, like the gold-looking inner coating on the forthcoming v3.


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## Gransee (Jan 29, 2002)

Chris is right, there is no code. We have made many revisions and even I have lost track of all of them.

Lets see...

0.9 Beta units sent to testers
1.0 New PCB design, new flat o-ring
1.1 Thread improvement, crimped PCB
2.0 Switched to rounded o-ring, new machine shop, battery retainer, new knurling design, new loop design
2.1 new epoxy, added silicone grease?
2.2 thread redesign (o-ring height?)
2.3 improved LED centering, tooling marks, new alloy
2.4 improved LED centering again (new XL hole size), S rank LEDs
2.5 Retail packaging, battery, type III
3.0 Upgraded waterproof rating, anodine interior, new alloy again, new red/yellow/orange LEDs

I know I forgot many improvements in the above list. I will add to it if I remember more.

Peter


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## Max (Jan 29, 2002)

Just a question about the trend I'm noticing. I really like my LE for several reasons, particularly the high light output and efficient battery usage. I also like that it is rugged and durable, but I don't know how valuable that is (to me, at least).

Okay, bear with me a second. I'm not saying that I want a flashlight that's going to break, and I know that some of you need a light that can deal with harsh environments, but for me, how useful is it really to have an LED flashlight that's going to last for 10 years? Technology is advancing rapidly, and a few years from now the LED in my LE is going to be far outclassed by whatever the latest technology is then. If I could buy the LED and voltage regulation technology of an ARC AAA for $10-15 in a case that might wear out and need replacing in 2-3 years, then maybe I'm better off? When it wears out, I'll pay another $10-15 and get something even better. 

On the other hand, given the choice, I passed over the regular AAA and went straight for the LE. What does that say?





Is there a way around this? What if I could buy a AAA or an LS today and know that if the LED technology improves that I could keep my rugged battery cases and just upgrade the head? What if the LED part of the head itself were replaceable so that I could just upgrade the LED?

Just some thoughts.


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## Chris M. (Jan 29, 2002)

_2.0 Switched to rounded o-ring..._

I thought v2.0 had a slightly redesigned flat gasket-thingy a bit like v1 but narrower, and it wasn`t until v2.1 that you went back to the round o-ring that the Protos had. At least, that`s what I have here.


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## Chris M. (Jan 29, 2002)

Oh- one more thing. Just out of interest, how many of these V0.9 proto/beta units were made? Just curious to know.....for the future....(pension plan?



)


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## Gransee (Jan 29, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris M.:
*2.0 Switched to rounded o-ring...

I thought v2.0 had a slightly redesigned flat gasket-thingy a bit like v1 but narrower, and it wasn`t until v2.1 that you went back to the round o-ring that the Protos had. At least, that`s what I have here.







*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, I am confused too. It's been 8 months and many revisions ago. I think the 2.0 brought in the new o-ring because I remember making a point to move the major digit for that revision because I was really proud of the new o-ring. The same idea with the 3.0 revision because I really like the new clear anodine.

As far as how many beta 0.9 Arc-AAA's there where made... We originally tried to make 12 but only 6 survived the QC process. You, Craig and Brock received one each and I don't remember where the other three went.

It was a late night last night and then the plater woke me at 6am on my cell phone to tell me that the threads where seizing on all the Arc-AAAs. Hearing that an entire run is ruined will wake you up faster than a double expresso. Eek! We got it solved though.





So I am little forgetfull this morning. Yeah and starfishes don't have a brain.

Peter


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## Chris M. (Jan 29, 2002)

Looking back at my notes (yes, I made notes!) I know that v2.0 saw the introduction of the battery retainer foam thingy- maybe that`s what you`re thinking of? V1 had a flat band/gasket and it wasn`t working right, so it got redesigned a bit for 2.0. It didn`t catch or fray but its water resistance wasn`t as good, so you changed it for the
round o-ring in 2.1.

This may refresh your memory (from my AAA review page)....?







_As far as how many beta 0.9 Arc-AAA's there where made... We originally tried to make 12 but only 6 survived the QC process. You, Craig and Brock received one each and I don't remember where the other three went._

Thanks



Feels sort of nice to know that it`s one of at most 6 in the world, even if it doesn`t work right any more (flickers!). This little LS in my left pocket, well that one feels even better! One day when you guys are bigger than Mag and have taken over Surefire too, these things may be worth a bit!


_Eek! _

Eek indeed. Good to hear you got on top of it.

BTW any idea what happened to the original Arc thread from when you first joined us? I couldn`t find it. Looks like part of the earlier archives in this forum are missing?


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 29, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
0.9 Beta units sent to testers
1.0 New PCB design, new flat o-ring
1.1 Thread improvement, crimped PCB
2.0 Switched to rounded o-ring, new machine shop, battery retainer, new knurling design, new loop design
2.1 new epoxy, added silicone grease?
2.2 thread redesign (o-ring height?)
2.3 improved LED centering, tooling marks, new alloy
2.4 improved LED centering again (new XL hole size), S rank LEDs
2.5 Retail packaging, battery, type III
3.0 Upgraded waterproof rating, anodine interior, new alloy again, new red/yellow/orange LEDs*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a lot of revisions.
From what I can determine, I have a 0.9, a 1.0, and a 2.0 in white. I'm not sure what revision my green is, but I'm reasonably sure it's a notch or two higher than 2.0.





I never got to get in on the Arc LE offer, as my money situation didn't improve sufficiently before they were all gone. Now that I have a little cash to throw around, it's too late.





Speaking of limited editions... is there any way to get yourself on the ordering/waiting list for the CPF edition (when the order-taking process commences) if you don't have a credit card and can't submit an online order because of that?


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## Gransee (Jan 29, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*That's a lot of revisions.
From what I can determine, I have a 0.9, a 1.0, and a 2.0 in white. I'm not sure what revision my green is, but I'm reasonably sure it's a notch or two higher than 2.0.





I never got to get in on the Arc LE offer, as my money situation didn't improve sufficiently before they were all gone. Now that I have a little cash to throw around, it's too late.





Speaking of limited editions... is there any way to get yourself on the ordering/waiting list for the CPF edition (when the order-taking process commences) if you don't have a credit card and can't submit an online order because of that?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only LE's left are the ones going out to the dealers. And these where ordered months ago in some cases. I think the dealers have them pretty much all sold as well. The last of the LEs should ship within 3 weeks. Again, these where units ordered quite in advance for dealers who have orders for each one (and probally more).

The CPF edition is going to have the same LED as the LE. Since that LED is out right now, the CPF edition it not available either. Grrr. We are supposed to get the HA blue samples in this week and I will post some pictures so you can see what the finish looks like.

To answer your question; other than credit cards, some people have used money orders for their Arc flashlight order. 

We haven't set a price for the CPF edition and there is no waiting list set up for it yet. I would like to get an assurance of the SB1 LED being on its way in the mail from Nichia before I make any promises to you guys.

Peter Gransee


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## WillnTex (Jan 29, 2002)

Craig when the next shipment of LE's arrive I'll drop one in the mail for you.


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## Quickbeam (Jan 30, 2002)

Peter - 

Looking forward to seeing your Arc-AAA on retail shelves! We all know it's been a long process, and hope it becomes a very prosperous one for you. Good luck at the show!

Doug P.


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 30, 2002)

Have a good time at the show Gransee...take lots of pictures (the lights...but girls will be ok too) and post them nightly.


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## BuddTX (Jan 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
*Have a good time at the show Gransee...take lots of pictures (the lights...but girls will be ok too) and post them nightly.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BOOTH BABES!!!!

When I used to go to computer shows years ago, (when the computer industry was mostly male), almost all the women were "booth babes!" It was fun to talk to them, they had NO IDEA what they were representing. Now the industry has a fair amount of females, so things are much more politically correct now!

I also go to commercial food shows, and the beer distributors (but wind and liquor dist also!) would have all kinds of booth babes!

Hooters girls, Hawiian tropic girls, Jello shot girls, you have to be careful not to trip when passing those booths!

OK, back to work! BUT DO POST SOME PICs!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 30, 2002)

Ive heard some talk about overdriving LEDs taking their useful life span down from 100,000 hours to something like 2000 hours. I was wondering how far the white LED in an ARC LE is overdriven and what the useful expected burn time of that LED would be. I suppose I would define useful as having 90% of its original brightness.


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## Tater Rocket (Jan 30, 2002)

Well, doesn't much matter if it does only last 2000 hours, because Arc is such a great company and has a 10 year guarantee. Now if only I could afford a dang Arc AAA. Hehe, anybody happen to have a used one they want to part with? (Yeah, I know, if you have one, you sure as heck dont want to part with it  )Yeah, anyway, I need to get a job so I can buy one, but TTS is out right now  Oh well, I just wish I had one. Maybe by the time TTS gets some, I will have some more money and won't have to feel bad at spending like $25.

Spud


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## Spidey82 (Jan 30, 2002)

will the CPF edition come with the XR function??
Linfeng


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## Gransee (Jan 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TTS:
*Craig when the next shipment of LE's arrive I'll drop one in the mail for you.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TTS, that is very nice of you for offering that. Also, thanks for sending me that beamshaper to test out!

Peter


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## Gransee (Jan 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quickbeam:
*Peter - 

Looking forward to seeing your Arc-AAA on retail shelves! We all know it's been a long process, and hope it becomes a very prosperous one for you. Good luck at the show!

Doug P.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks very much Doug! It is going to be fun.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken B:
*Have a good time at the show Gransee...take lots of pictures (the lights...but girls will be ok too) and post them nightly.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My GF will be joining me at the show so we will just take our time and walk the aisles. They don't allow cameras at the show but I will have one in the car just in case I need it. I'll post here about the interesting stuff I do see at the show. 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EmmetFitzhume:
*I’ve heard some talk about overdriving LEDs taking their useful life span down from 100,000 hours to something like 2000 hours. I was wondering how far the white LED in an ARC LE is overdriven and what the useful expected burn time of that LED would be. I suppose I would define useful as having 90% of its original brightness.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I should defer to Craig on this question. I remember him saying that heat was the primary enemy of the LED. Two points to remember; one, the 45mA we run the Nichias at is pretty normal for the industry; two, our LEDs are heat sinked by a double encapsulation of epoxy and aluminum.

We feel pretty comfortable offering a 10 year warranty on the entire flashlight, including the LED.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*will the CPF edition come with the XR function??
Linfeng*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Spidey, no. The CPF edition will be offered with the SB1 LED.

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (Jan 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Speaking of limited editions... is there any way to get yourself on the ordering/waiting list for the CPF edition (when the order-taking process commences) if you don't have a credit card and can't submit an online order because of that?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Craig -

I would be happy to order anything you ever need on my credit card, with the understanding that you'll eventually send me PayPal cash. Seriously. Just say the word. If I don't remember to get back to you, be sure to get back to me when we can start standing in line for the CPF edition.


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## supertrucker (Jan 30, 2002)

Now I have to wait for three ARC models!
I figure ten years down the line I'll have 
a hundred ARC's or so, provided that Gransee keeps up the good work.
By the way, lets not forget about pocket clips for all of the above, like the E1/E2.


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TTS:
*Craig when the next shipment of LE's arrive I'll drop one in the mail for you.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's too cool!!













thanks!!



:bright_flashlight:



oops ran out of "happy" icons.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Jan 30, 2002)

Good luck Peter!!! I used to live in Vegas back in '88 before it went through its "family stage" there was a slot machine mechanic school I was going to at the time but when I realized what it was like working for the casinos I backed out, I did learn a bit about electronics then which I am trying to put into use, word of advice, take advantage of the "perks" and comps like the free drinks and the breakfasts that when I was there were under $2.Its a time of the awakening of LEDs and especially the Luxeons, from what I have heard here at CPF Surefire is making a stand on using the Luxeon, it will be interesting to have your comments here for those like me that cannot be there, like what the competition has or does not have against your products and possibly what you may do to compete and hold an advantage in quality and assurance, that alone will keep people coming back for more , even if its version 4.0, 5.0, 6.0 (like AOL?



) But anyway have a good time and don't let the big outfits put you down with what they promise or display, from what I see and hear you have and will be continuing the "betterment" of the LS and Arc AAA. Can you inform us in detail while you are there? I am sure a lot of your followers would like that, I would anyway.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 31, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*The only LE's left are the ones going out to the dealers. And these where ordered months ago in some cases. I think the dealers have them pretty much all sold as well. The last of the LEs should ship within 3 weeks. Again, these where units ordered quite in advance for dealers who have orders for each one (and probally more).

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Peter,
Will this final batch of LE's have the new version 3.0 features? Yup, I ordered yet ANOTHER LE from a dealer several weeks back, so one of these last ones should (hopefully) be making its way to my mailbox. 

Have fun at the Shot Show!


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## Harrkev (Jan 31, 2002)

When will we be able to find out where we can buy our Arc-AAA lights over-the-counter?

I just lost my Arc-AAA when it fell off of the carabiner on my keychain. I was (and still am) heartbroken. I live in the Melbourne, FL area (near Cocoa), and would like to just drive by someplace and pick one up.

Do you have any big "chains" lined up, or will you sell mostly throught smaller stores?


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## Carpe Diem (Jan 31, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harrkev:
*I just lost my Arc-AAA when it fell off of the carabiner on my keychain. I was (and still am) heartbroken. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Harrkev!

Mustering up a phrase that used to be heard in the White House (along, of course, with what must have been many other interesting phrases that were then also heard in the White House), "I feel your pain."

Nothing worse than becoming dependant on a good flashlight like the Arc AAA and then having it taken out of your life by losing it!

To protect against this evil, and whenever financially possible, I try to be redundant and immediately buy at least TWO of whatever flashlight I`m getting.

Like I just said... I try to be redundant and immediately buy at least TWO of whatever flashlight I`m getting.

Take care! Take care!


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## Gransee (Feb 1, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lightboy:
*Hello Peter,
Will this final batch of LE's have the new version 3.0 features? Yup, I ordered yet ANOTHER LE from a dealer several weeks back, so one of these last ones should (hopefully) be making its way to my mailbox. 

Have fun at the Shot Show!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! I am looking forward to it. Most of the LEs being sent will be 2.5s. A very small amount will be the 3.0s. I checked again with Nichia today, still no B1S's in stock and none planned for delivery. Btw, I found they had a few EV rank turquoises in stock. These are the equivalent of the "S" rank for the turquoise and are rated over a 1cd brighter than the normal rank. This is the first time they have had any that I have seen so I bought as many as I could (which was most of what they had). These should make their way into the 3.0s towards the end of February. They won't be marked differently or priced extra. Your eyes may not even see the extra 1cd of output. Once they're gone, they're.. well you know the drill. 

One of the perks of a being a small manufacturer is we get to purchase these special ranks. 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harrkev:
*When will we be able to find out where we can buy our Arc-AAA lights over-the-counter?

I just lost my Arc-AAA when it fell off of the carabiner on my keychain. I was (and still am) heartbroken. I live in the Melbourne, FL area (near Cocoa), and would like to just drive by someplace and pick one up.

Do you have any big "chains" lined up, or will you sell mostly throught smaller stores?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to hear about the lost unit. Maybe it will turn up. I have a friend who lost one out of his pocket and later found it in the street scratched up. Still worked.

It will take a couple of months for a nation wide chain to pick us up. They usually buy every quarter. I would recommend you have one of our dealers send you one, you'll have it sooner that way (and probally at a better price).

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 1, 2002)

Well, I ordered another AAA today (for the wife.) -Got to talk directly to Peter, a level of service that still blows me away. 

The only down side? Every time I show someone new my light, they want to buy one, a major contributing factor to our current LED shortage. Gotta' remember the first piece of advice I was given when I got on the job, "Kid, _keep your mouth shut!_"


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## Empath (Feb 1, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tortoise:
*Well, I ordered another AAA today (for the wife.) -Got to talk directly to Peter, a level of service that still blows me away. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been trying to order one, but everyone is out of them. I finally gave up.


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## Darell (Feb 1, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Empath:
*I've been trying to order one, but everyone is out of them. I finally gave up.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The new version will be out in a couple of weeks. Most places will let you put an order in now, and they'll just ship when the stock arrives from Peter.


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## WaltH (Feb 1, 2002)

With all the hubub of SF going into the LED market I think we should all remember who has entertained our whims and done his best to give us what we want.

The SF price increase has a (very) little to do with this but I've spoken with Peter directly in the past and he and ArcFlashlight are living the dream, and sometimes nightmare, while not forgetting about us regular folks.

Peter, I love all my AAA's and the LS. I'm truly honored to use your products on a daily basis. Keep up the good work.


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## Darell (Feb 1, 2002)

I was just thinking about the latest two price increases that'll effect me: Arc's and SureFire's. The big difference here is that even the SF products that have been out for a while, and have not changed, are now costing quite a bit more. In Peter's case, he's raised the price on the AAA because of some significant improvements that are costing him more in production costs.

Nobody is ever thrilled with price increases, but I can at least understand Peter's much easier. I do care what products cost me, but I care even more about allowing an excellent business to stay in business.


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 1, 2002)

Hi Peter.

IMHO, the Surefire price increases that have just disrupted the CPF universe will bode well for you. Your reasonably priced flashlights will, in comparison and with absolute certainty, sell extremely well.

We already know you to be a man of business courage and honor, and your faithful army of loyal customers will now grow even stronger. 

Sorry to try to wax poetic, but it really helps to have the "Peter Gransees" around when trying to deal with the unsettling pricing events at Surefire.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 2, 2002)

Yes, I agree. I own both Arc and Surefire products, and if I had to choose, it'd be Arc based on service, quality and accessability. Peter has his finger on the pulse of the industry and listens to the direct requests of his customers.

Peter...build it and we will come.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Feb 2, 2002)

Its almost 3:30 pm in Vegas, I wonder how the SHOT show is going.


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## Gransee (Feb 2, 2002)

Thank you Darell, tortoise, WaltH, Fivebeans and Carpe Diem! Hearing people really enjoy our products and company is like adding a can of octane boost to my fuel tank.





Empath, sorry about the delays (I seem to say this often). My new years resolution this year was to deliver our products on time. It's a work in progress. We should be shipping in two weeks time. 

Daniel, I should be hearing soon on how the show is going. I am kinda curious to tell the truth. I left a message for Steve but he is probably pretty busy right now.

I also can't wait to go myself on Monday.

If anyone is going to be at the show, look up Steve Gibson at our booth (5987). He has the new 3.0 units and will be showing them off. I also gave him an LS, but he will only be showing that by request only since we aren't really ready to take it mainstream.

When I come to the show, I will be bringing some... stuff. New stuff. (I will post it here once I tested them some more). No, it is not a 'D' size LS flashlight with 3 LS illuminators (the "LSD" - sure to be a big hit if it wasn't an illusion). Sorry, I shouldn't even joke about new flashlights.





The new stuff is nothing big really. Just variations of existing models.

It is so frustrating sometimes having all these ideas, your good suggestions and lots of new technologies to play with and us stuck with a shoestring bank account. Someday...

The new retainer design for the LS shipped out yesterday to all the LS holders. Remember, I posted directions on how to swap the retainer out here. Let me know what you think of them. If you approve, they will be part of the next version.

So if you own an LS, look for a small white envelope in about a week's time. I tired not to miss anyone but if you got your LS from one of our distributors, I don't have your name, so drop me a note.

Of course, if you haven't received an LS, not to worry, when we ship it, the new retainer will already be added.

I will post about what I saw at the show when I get back.

Peter Gransee


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## JonSidneyB (Feb 3, 2002)

in spite of the new SureFire offerings of Luxons, I am still hoping to be able to order the Arc-LS when possible. One thing the LS has on the SureFire offerings is the ability to use a single AA to clean out drawers and the wonderful 123 offering. I still think it would be nice if the Lanyard attachment was more centered on the bottom, like maybe a fold away D-ring or something. Good luck Gransee. Hope production eventually moves along smoothly and the LS's get to the point where I can place an order.


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## r2 (Feb 3, 2002)

Has anyone done a comparison of various colors of the Arc AAA? I'm planning to get one but I can't decide on a color. I have a turquoise and a white Photon 3 and I really like the turquoise. The white is nice for seeing true colors, but the turquoise is brighter and cooler. Also, with a small light, I don't usually care too much about accurate colors.

I'm mainly looking at green, blue, and turquoise in the Arc AAA. Which of these appears brightest? Any difference in battery life? Any other thoughts on the colors? I've heard that green is the most efficient color for LEDs, but I don't know if this translates into any difference in actual products. Most of what I've read indicates that the light output of the Arc AAA is similar to a Photon; are the colors much different?

Thanks!

- Russ

p.s. Peter, in an earlier post you said that you got a batch of slightly better turquoise LEDs which would be used in Arc AAAs toward the end of February; when/where should I order to have the best chance of getting one of those?


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## Gransee (Feb 3, 2002)

Hello Russ, welcome to the CPF! How did you find out about us?

About your color question, it would be nice to hear from some of the reviewers on this.

The turquoise ARC-AAA is the brightest to the eye. The beam is a wide 30 degrees and provides excellent peripheral vision.

The special turquoises are not marked any differently nor will they cost extra. They will start shipping out to resellers and web customers in 3-4 weeks. We bought enough to last about 4 weeks and after that, we won't see them for a long while. Just a little something extra for you.

Peter


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## Gransee (Feb 3, 2002)

If you have visited our website lately, you'll notice we up-gunned our UV, red, yellow and orange Arc-AAA models with new LEDs.

The new UV's are the Wilycon/Cree 395nm units. They are rated at 12mw optical output at 20mA. We run them at 45mA of course which makes a good amount of UV. They have a wider beam and are much brighter than the old UV LEDs which where rated at 1mw output. 

I have been having a lot of fun playing with one lately.





The new UVs also are more efficient. I notice they run cooler and draw less current. I will send one to Craig for testing/run times once we have some spares.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Feb 3, 2002)

I have had several reports from Steve at the show so far. Sounds like he is having lots of fun. I can't wait to go tomorrow. He has me lined up with meetings now so I guess I won't be able to spend as much time scoping the other booths out. 

He is getting a lot of traffic and making some new friends. Several CPF'ers have stopped by so far including Size15s and others (I don't know their CPF name, only their real names, which I will not post here without their permission).

Steve says there are few NVG manufacturers at the show and they are keen on our IR model. He got to play with a cryro-IR imager as well (on my list of things to do for fun).

A couple of magazines at the show now have our product so we might see a few articles written up (here's hoping).

I outlined a new crash program with our dealers today to improve our delivery times on our product. The goal being here is to start shipping our product on time. I have a detailed step by step program to follow that should improve things over time.

More to come...

Peter Gransee


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## Blades (Feb 3, 2002)

I just picked up a Arc-light today at my local gun&knife show. I was on my way out the door, and was looking at some knives one last time, and saw these little black tubes in little plastic bags. They had 1 white left, so I bought it. Funny thing is, I went past the table 4 times or so looking at knives and never noticed the Arc's. So far I'm impressed with it. Plus the reviews here helped alot.




Thanks everyone. Now I want a 3.0 model. 


Blades


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## TrevorNasko (Feb 3, 2002)

i ordered an ls and 2 aa batt pack from dept. services 4 weeks back but when i called for an order confermation i got a computer telling me to leave my number and they would call back. after numerous messages i have left they have yet to return my calls. for some reason my emails don't get answered either. gransee, i appeal to you because you do bussines with him and i know you'll answer me. i respect his wish to withhold his personal number but i want you to tell him that radio silence only loses customers- like me. im almost to the point where i email my cancelation and refuse to pay if he ships anyway. 
you see im frusterated because i gathered while talking on the phone with you that if i contacted and got him to ask you to upgrade his order by one that you might do it i.e. meaning i get my arc sooner instead of- well it could be never with this idiot. please do something to help me gransee.i realize youre real busy and maybe havent slept in a while but just remember id buy a ls arc that someone sent back because it wasnt right. i gotta have an arc ls
HELP!!!!!!!


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## Gransee (Feb 3, 2002)

He's a good guy. I don't know why he hasn't got back to you yet. I will give him a call when I get back from the show. This will be my last post before I go to the show. 

The SuperBowl game was entertaining this time.

Peter


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## geepondy (Feb 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
The SuperBowl game was entertaining this time.
Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I'm so happy for my Patriots! Now my life is now half complete. If only the Red Sox can win the World Series, it will be complete. Still waiting since 1918.

P.S. U2 did a great show, I thought. They are truely a great band.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 3, 2002)

Peter-

I know you won't see this until you return from S.H.O.T., but when you have a chance, and if you are able, could you please post the names of the magazines that have Arc AAA samples. I would like to keep my eyes peeled for a write-up, perhaps even rattle some chains.





Thank you,

fivebeans


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## Lonewolf (Feb 4, 2002)

geepondy I give alot of credit to the Pats I was rooting for them because I like Bellicheck(sp). Now being a longtime Yankee fan going back to when I was a kid I hope the curse of Babe Ruth is never lifted from the Redsox. And I stood by the Yankees through the long dry spell and the soap opera of Billy Martin and George Steinbrenner so I am not a bandwagon fan.

Also I lived in RI for 6 years and never rooted for anyone besides my beloved Yankees.


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## Gransee (Feb 5, 2002)

Just got back from the show earlier this morning. I will post about the show later this afternoon.

I was going through my email today (trying to catch up) and got this...

"Hi, did you lower the mcd of the led's in all the new batches of lights ? You have 3,400 MCD listed for the Green light on your website. On the listed distributors sites the light is listed as 10,400 mcd's. I just want a green arc-aaa, are they 10,400 mcd or 3,400 if I can purchase one from say brightguy.com, or the ledlight.com ?"

Hello! We switched to a the wider angle Nichias on our blue, green and turquoise a while back. Since they are a wider angle, the mcd number is lower even thought the luminosity is the same or higher. Mcd is a measurement of the brightness of a point in space and is more a factor of the lens than the actual output of the LED. We use this number because the manufacturer has not provided any other measurement.

The short answer: The flashlights are just as brighter or brighter as they where 6 months ago. What has changed is the beam angle and how we rate them.

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 5, 2002)

Nichia has changed in luminous intensity of all of its parts to be in line with industry standard.

NSPG500S 20 degree Typ 11.6 for S intensity 14-17 cd for T Intensity

NSPG510S 30 degree Typ 5 cd for S intensity 6.2 -7.4 cd for T intensity

NSPG520S 45 degree Typ 2.76 cd for S intensity 3.4 - 4 cd for T intensity

All of Nichia green leds use the exact same chip. The measurement in cd is determined by the lens. Light outpur for all of these leds should be the same.

JRocks


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 5, 2002)

Peter... thanks for your comments on the Shot Show.

Also, and I`m probably speaking for a lot of us CPF`ers and Arc customers, it was really nice to see a picture of you and Steve.

Unfortunatly for me, though, it looks like I`m a little "longer in the tooth" than you are.

Best wishes to you on the continuing Arc venture.


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## Gransee (Feb 5, 2002)

Thanks and your welcome. I look younger than I actually am _and_, I live in Phoenix. Two normally mutually exclusive facts. I'll actually be 30 this month.

It's funny sometimes... I am the youngest guy in the Arc team, I don't know how these wise old guys put up with a young punk like myself.





It actually works pretty good. Good ideas thrive in a balance of naive creativity and cautious experience (both practiced with conviction).

Peter Gransee


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## Terrapin Flyer (Feb 5, 2002)

It was great to see the real Peter Gransee via the pic. I must admit, though, I had imagined you as a young, svelt, handsome gentlemen, perhaps dressed as a cross between a worldly adventurer and engineering geek. You still look that way, just a little older than I imagined.

< It's difficult to type with my fingers crossed hoping these kind & fitting remarks will get me an LS to "test"






>

I'm assuming your "booth babes" were on break when this pic was taken?


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## JollyRoger (Feb 5, 2002)

Thanks, Peter. (And now I know the face of the person I've talked to and bugged so many times...)

The Rage and 4AA lights you saw at the Moteng booth are made by Princeton Tec...


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## MY (Feb 5, 2002)

Thanks Peter for the update. I will say that it was admirable that, in your review of the competition, you did not have one negative comment. Good business sense and practice.


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## Gransee (Feb 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:
*It was great to see the real Peter Gransee via the pic. I must admit, though, I had imagined you as a young, svelt, handsome gentlemen, perhaps dressed as a cross between a worldly adventurer and engineering geek. You still look that way, just a little older than I imagined.

< It's difficult to type with my fingers crossed hoping these kind & fitting remarks will get me an LS to "test"






>

I'm assuming your "booth babes" were on break when this pic was taken?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was "rich" JackStraw. Still no extra LS's though.





Yes, one of the "babes" in our booth was taking the picture. I am referring to my GF of course and I got the use of the word "babe" in reference to her cleared before hand.

The LS's are in production again (yeah!). I was showing off my HD-'orangish'RED LS-123 at the show to people who seemed to be more of the flashaholic sort. They would say, "I want it". I would say, "we don't got it yet". I finally wised up and started telling them that before I showed it to them so they wouldn't think me mean. ~50 lumens from a flashlight that small is fun to play with.

Btw, the 55 lumen (max with 2AA lithiums, about 50 lumens with 123 pack, orangish red color only) High Dome LS was one of the new items I brought to the show. The other was the type III colors test for the Arc-AAA in red, blue, purple and green. Still not perfect yet though. The plater choose to make the coating thinner to improve the brightness. I am going to have him redo the coating at our normal thickness before I post pictures here.

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (Feb 5, 2002)

Anybody else notice that our young LED flashlight pioneer looks like he's in serious need of a nap?

Thanks for the great mini review Peter. Now... let's seem them new products!


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## Daniel Ramsey (Feb 5, 2002)

No foolin' he looks like like one of those millionaire computer whiz kids, must be great to be successful young in life! Keep it goin Peter!


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## Darell (Feb 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*the type III colors test for the Arc-AAA in red, blue, purple and green. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aggh! Purple? You make these things in purple and my wife will buy more of them than me!


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## Bucky (Feb 5, 2002)

Maybe this is just my opinion, but I think it is very important to keep the HA thick. The brightness of the color doesn't matter as much to me as the quality and resistance to scratching and other abrasion of the HA.

Just my $.02

Bucky


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## Gransee (Feb 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bucky:
*Maybe this is just my opinion, but I think it is very important to keep the HA thick. The brightness of the color doesn't matter as much to me as the quality and resistance to scratching and other abrasion of the HA.

Just my $.02

Bucky*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Oh I agree of course. That's why they are doing them over until they are just right. For a given metal surface, size, radius, etc there is a optimal thickness for the anodize. Too thin and it doesn't provide as much protection against scratches, too thick and it breaks off in chunks. 

Incidently, even with the optimal thickness of type III the Arc knurl will still scratch. And easier than a finish should in my opinion. This past Sunday I took an old key to one and was able to scrape the tops of the knurl peaks off. I also put a new notch in the key. The peaks are so sharp the anodize really doesn't have an ideal foundation. The valleys, on the other hand, are quite protected and strong. What happens after awhile is the knurl developes a "shiny-dot" appearance. I know a lot of CPF'ers like the tight knurl we use on the Arc but I would like to test a more shallow cut sometime to see if it wears better. Of course the trade off is that it will be more slippery to hold.

Always refining the product... Pushing the envelope of materials, size, brightness (all good) and our wallets (baaad).





Peter Gransee


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## Bucky (Feb 5, 2002)

Thanks for your response Peter.

I am glad you agree about the HA. I think the HA coating used in your lights and in SureFire lights is absolutely fantastic. I have SureFire lights from a couple of years ago in HA that still look brand new because of the HA coating. Long live HA!

Bucky


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## Gransee (Feb 5, 2002)

On a slow night try this with your Arc-AAA...

Unscrew the head, keep the battery inside and fill the battery compartment to the top with water. Next, screw the head back on.

Does it still work?

Make sure you dry everything out after the test.

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (Feb 5, 2002)

If I could find my dog - who currently has my official torture light - I'd give it a shot. Can't wait to find out why you're asking. Details to follow...


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## Gransee (Feb 6, 2002)

*Arc Flashlight at the 2002 SHOT Show*

Just got back this morning. As requested, here's my report...

From left to right: Cynthia, Steve Lamb, Peter Gransee, Steve Gibson.






The booth was provided by Steve Lamb of Springboard Engineering who is also a dealer of LED flashlights. Arc and Eternalight worked a deal with him to share the booth. You can see the Eternalights on the left and the Arcs on the right.

Steve Gibson is our National Sales Manager for those who haven't met him yet. The show was the first time we had met in person and I am impressed. It's a good thing he's on our side.





Lamb was also selling high power magnet and tool bits on his table...

I was surprised at how many people came by because our booth was in the furthest back corner of the convention center. All the flashlight manufactures where loosely grouped in one area so we had SF, Mag, etc just a quick stroll away.

My time at the show was mostly spent talking to people who stopped by but I also got out and looked at a few of the other booths. For those who asked, here's some notes on what I saw at the other booths.

Eternalight
I had never actually seen one on person before so I was interested to play with one. I like how they put the list of modes on the front of the housing. The lights where eye catching with their bright housings and flashing LEDs. Tom has really put together a sharp product in my opinion. 

Surefire
The SF booth was packed with people. Very popular brand as you all know. PK was there and surrounded by fans. He was showing off the new LED lights so I squeezed through the crowd to talk to him. PK recognized me right off, smiled and wanted to know if I brought my LS with me. He talked about the LED lights and I got to play with each one and inspect it closely. Nice solid product in my opinion. PK was very nice and professional and was open to talking shop about the LS, etc. We looked at the 19 LED bezel, the LS bezel (several colors) and the digital flashlight. The LS bezel uses the stock LS lens just like we do. Their beam centering and quality was good in my opinion. I saw LS bezels on the M2 and the E2. The 15 lumen LS bezel ran noticably cooler than the ~22 lumen/19 LED bezel. Next was the digital flashlight. It has an incandescent surrounded by 3 Nichia whites or two incandescent bulbs (hi/low). The tail button toggled through the two different light sources. The tail could also be rotated to lock on/out one or the other light source. Next up was "The Beast" (formerly named the Hellfire which they felt wasn't very PC I guess). The beast is a big flashlight. 2000 lumens from an arc lamp and rechargeable battery. The beam was quite bright as you can imagine and I could hit the far wall of the convention center with it. The bezel was fixed focus. Twist the head to turn on. Loosen tail cap to change battery. My GF accidently beamed a guy in the face about 6 feet away for a split second. I was playing with the other beast and I saw out of the corner of my eye a flash of light reflect back from his face. He was ok and was a good sport about it (probally now a future SF customer if he wasn't already). In operation, the light doesn't get too warm. It makes a buzzing sound from the internal switcher as it runs. I could hear it inside of a noisy convention even though it was a foot or two from my ear. The sound was kind of novel and not a negative factor for the target market really (they will see your light long before they hear it buzz). While playing with it, the battery died and the switcher starting strobing the light very rapidly. Bulb life is "very long" (no exact figure yet). Cost is "easily over a grand". There is a larger head version of the Beast which is a earlier prototype of the same model. 

Maglight
Except for an unhappy looking sales person, I didn't see anyone at the Mag booth while I was there. No new products on display. The sales guy said that yes, Mag is coming out with some LED products and they were supposed to have them in January but they are late. My guess is that their first LED products will either be a key chain (LED Solitaire?) or 2AA size product. Maybe they will go the bezel route as well to save time. Of course, this is just my guess, the rep told me nothing. I talked with him a little about their incandescent products and he said their most popular product is definitely the 2AA and then after that the 2-4D sizes.

Streamlight
Streamlight had all their rechargeable lights out in full force each to get to and play with. I didn't stick around long enough to see any new products. I did play with the Scorpion though and I thought it was a nice incandescent.

Brinkmann
The Brinkmann lady was friendly. They had a zillion products in slick retail packaging. I played with the LX and I see what you guys mean about it being similar to the Scorpion but less expensive. The rep said, "Yeah we get that a lot". She wasn't cocky about it or anything, just politely acknowledging the fact. 

Princeton Tec
By this time I was getting tired of standing so we didn't do their booth justice. They had a bunch of head light lamps on display. I saw the Matrix(?) and others. They had a waterfall with the lights sitting in water getting splashed to show off their water resistance.

We stopped by Bushnell to play with their NVG's. I brought along a Arc-AAA IR because I wanted to test it with a bunch of different types of equipment. The test didn't work very well in the bright convention center light. Not Bushnesll's fault, there equipment looks sharp.

Finally I stopped by Moteng because they are a distributor for a wide range of LED flashlights. The rep was very nice and let me play with anything I saw in the case. I checked out the X5 to see what all the hubbub has been about this light. They only had the blue version, which my HD-red LS-123 I had with me was brighter than of course. The beam was good and the finish and action was very good. I also played with the rage (model name?) with 3-LED/4AAA and the 1LED/4AA. I don't know why people would buy the larger 4AA version because it is dimmer than the 4AAA version. This is because the 4AA has only one LED. I took it apart and it looked like a regular Nichia 5mm. The package said 300 something lux. Ok fine. The lens is very focused and the beam does throw however. Moteng had a show special on e2s for something like $50-ish (I forgot). I almost bought one but then I reminded myself to spend all money on improving our leads times.

One of the interesting people we met btw was a couple of former SEALS from Extreme Edge. They want to get our light tested for HiLo and dive use and they offered to get our units in a few teams for hands-on evaluation. I asked them how a single LED would be any use at 100 feet under water and he said they only need a little light usually to check their compass, map, gauges, etc. They tested them at the show by repeatedly throwing one of the red Arc-AAA's against the convention center wall about 20 feet away. They must have tossed it about 5-6 times. Still worked of course. A security guard was standing right there watching us but I guess they didn't want to come over and mess with those guys. They invited me to walk around the show with them and meet some of their associates- mostly former SEAL, one Delta. Interesting types. 

Some parts of the show where very gun centric. I don't think I have ever seen that much firepower first hand in one room. Rows and rows of guns. Big show. 

All in all, the show was quite fun. I think we got the word out (or at least a start). 

Good to be back in Phoenix.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*On a slow night try this with your Arc-AAA...

Unscrew the head, keep the battery inside and fill the battery compartment to the top with water. Next, screw the head back on.

Does it still work?

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it works with distilled water in my LE. Tap water here is way too hard, and doesn't work(good conductor->short circuit). But now I'm hesitant to put my light back together dry because I can't seem to squeeze all the water out of the foam ring. The low humidity here should fix it soon, but probably not as fast as it would in Mesa or Las Vegas.

I really love this flashlight. It's tough. Don't think I'm going to try throwing it against walls, though. I'll leave that kind of stuff to the Navy Seals or Craig Johnson.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*"Luminescent hard anodize"? Hard anodize or "HA TYPE III" is not available in that bright color. If you want a bright color, you have to use type II, plastic or paint. 

From what I understand, HA makes the dye seem murky and dark. You'll see that in the CPF blue test that I should be getting back this coming week. Even without any dye, clear HA ("natural") makes the metal appear dark gray-green (the LE and LS finish).

*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Been reading up on aluminum anodization. I now know this much: The process creates 200-400nm pores in the metal-oxide surface in which one can embed pigments. That's why colored hard anodized aluminum doesn't come in vivid colors; you only have pigment where the pores are. Less pigment per unit of surface area = duller appearance. However, there are no theoretical barriers to adding luminescent pigment to those pores. A zinc sulfide molecule is much smaller than 400nm, and other more sophisticated glow-in-the-dark crud should fit too, if you are clever enough to get it in the pore without interfering with the electrochemistry of the aluminum oxide surface.

Bottom Line: While it very well may be that no one has ever created glow-in-the-dark hard anodized aluminum, there is no reason it can't be done. Since your area of expertise is flashlights, not metallurgy research, of course someone else will have to step up and figure it out for us all.

But hey, maybe 20 years from now we really can have that glow-in-the-dark Arc flashlight on our keychains. Man, I'll bet LEDs will be BRIGHT by then.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Feb 6, 2002)

Or better yet develope transparent aluminum from a fusing of silica in the electrical refining process.....Beam me up Scotty!


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## Harrkev (Feb 6, 2002)

The new AAA-LE will be made from Unobtanium, and the CPF member edition will be milled from pure Balonium.


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## Gransee (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lightboy:
*Yes, it works with distilled water in my LE. Tap water here is way too hard, and doesn't work(good conductor->short circuit). But now I'm hesitant to put my light back together dry because I can't seem to squeeze all the water out of the foam ring. The low humidity here should fix it soon, but probably not as fast as it would in Mesa or Las Vegas.

I really love this flashlight. It's tough. Don't think I'm going to try throwing it against walls, though. I'll leave that kind of stuff to the Navy Seals or Craig Johnson.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So tap water didn't work at all? We have pretty hard water here as well but the water I used was softened by the salt process so it should be even more conductive.

I was turning in for the night and had this crazy idea so I posted it here. Doesn't really prove much except to show the PCB is sealed. Most incandescents would probally be ok with the same test. The difference between the Arc and the incandescent in this test is the Arc would be brighter because it is less effected by low battery voltage.

The downside is the water will cause corrosion (especially with an electrical current flowing nearby) and that is the reason for the o-ring. After the test, I blew out the battery compartment, sponged the retainer and left the head off all night to dry it out. It still works this morning.

The light I used for this test was an older rev 2.3 LE. The new 3.0's have a ChemKote interior which should resist water more effectively if it should get inside the flashlight.

Put this test in the catagory with the microwave test I tried earlier and the magnetic test discovered by a fellow CPF'er.

At the show, I was also doing the dead battery in the solitaire test. We had a solitare (AAA incandescent) which we would first put a dead battery in and show it was to dead to even glow faintly. Then we put the same dead battery in an Arc and would show them how much light it produces.

Peter Gransee


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## Quickbeam (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Aggh! Purple? You make these things in purple and my wife will buy more of them than me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto! Well, at least she'll know what it's like to _really_ want a flashlight (of course it won't be 24/7 like the rest of us)!


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## geepondy (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
At the show, I was also doing the dead battery in the solitaire test. We had a solitare (AAA incandescent) which we would first put a dead battery in and show it was to dead to even glow faintly. Then we put the same dead battery in an Arc and would show them how much light it produces.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think you'll get an argument from a single person disagreeing with the Arc being much superior then a solitaire! A good display also would be to take a dead CR123 that will not light up an E1 and plug it into the LS.


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## sunspot (Feb 6, 2002)

The *only* flashlight my wife asked me to buy for her was a 2C Mag in purple. Five calls later to Mag and I found out that the sole retailer for this model is Bed, Bath and beyond. Took about a week from request to me handing it over to her. I'm sure my fellow CPF'ers understand that when the wife asks for a light *we will get the light*.
Peter. If you start supplying colored ARC's they will sell. But that's only my opinion.


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## Chris M. (Feb 6, 2002)

_Or better yet develope transparent aluminum from a fusing of silica in the electrical refining process.....Beam me up Scotty!_

Not as silly as it sounds- we have something almost similar today. OK, not aluminum in its purest form, but Aluminum Oxide. The arc-tubes inside high pressure sodium lamps (the whitish orange streetlamps) is not glass, it is _trans*luc*ent *al*uminum *ox*ide_ also known as _Lucalox_. More similar to ceramic material than metal or glass.

Admittedly it is exeptionally difficult to work with, and to make a flashlight casing out of it would be almost impossible- and it`s brittle too!


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## The_LED_Museum (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Thanks and your welcome. I look younger than I actually am and, I live in Phoenix. Two normally mutually exclusive facts. I'll actually be 30 this month.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice picture from the show. Now we all know "the face behind the flashlight".




For some reason I always thought you were a middle-age gentleman, not somebody 7 years younger than me.





Looks like you could have used a cup of coffee or a Vivarin when that picture was taken though.














Hope you had a good time at the show. Obviously you did successfully smuggle a camera "across the border", so did you get any good pictures of upcoming or unusual lighting products?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*So tap water didn't work at all? We have pretty hard water here as well but the water I used was softened by the salt process so it should be even more conductive.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think our water is the hardest in the country. I measured the pH when I was setting up my fish tanks, and it was 9.0.


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## Gransee (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*Nice picture from the show. Now we all know "the face behind the flashlight".




For some reason I always thought you were a middle-age gentleman, not somebody 7 years younger than me.





Looks like you could have used a cup of coffee or a Vivarin when that picture was taken though.














Hope you had a good time at the show. Obviously you did successfully smuggle a camera "across the border", so did you get any good pictures of upcoming or unusual lighting products?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Darell thought I looked sleepy too. Ok I was. But I gotta burn the candle at both ends, its not like I am getting younger...





Sorry no other pictures.

Yeah, I had a camera in my bag which they did not ask about or search. I bet if I started taking pictures though someone would have come over. There was security all over the place. I have been to Comdex, E3 and Internet World and none of them even had half the security this show had.

We took the picture at the end of show before they shut out the lights so we where leaving anyways. It was also of our own booth so no one could really complain.

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (Feb 6, 2002)

Hey Peter -

You can probably answer this as well as anybody. I've got a question about regulation over here: regulation thread

Your AAA's are my first regulated lights, and I love the concept. I just wonder if it can be made better - and if not, what the limitations are.

Oh, and BTW, my AAA's light up just great while full of tap water. I think I'll keep them all that way from now on so they won't leak


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## WaltH (Feb 6, 2002)

Hi Peter,
I received the new piece for my LS tonight. It was very easy to SLOWLY scrape the original pad out with my fingernail, and replace with the new foam. It's perfect! A renewed love of my LS. As I type it has just exhausted a 123 from my M3. I love this light and it will be my sole LS illuminator. Had toyed with the idea of getting a SF LED but I think I'll leave the LED's to you and hit them up for the regular bubs.
Thanks again for a great product and I'll be purchasing more as gifts when they're readily available.


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 6, 2002)

Hi Peter...

Same here. I just put in the replacement retainers on my Arc 123 LS`s.

Worked just fine. Thank you!


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## DavidW (Feb 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phred:
*The only flashlight my wife asked me to buy for her was a 2C Mag in purple. Five calls later to Mag and I found out that the sole retailer for this model is Bed, Bath and beyond. Took about a week from request to me handing it over to her. I'm sure my fellow CPF'ers understand that when the wife asks for a light we will get the light.
Peter. If you start supplying colored ARC's they will sell. But that's only my opinion.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ummm... I think you can get those at Home Depot.


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## BuddTX (Feb 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daniel Ramsey:
*Or better yet develope transparent aluminum from a fusing of silica in the electrical refining process.....Beam me up Scotty!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Transparent Aluminum!!!!!!

That was a GREAT scene!

Scotty: "I've come millions of miles to see your plant (McCoy whispers, that's THOUSANDS), er, I mean THOUSANDS of Miles . . ."

He goes up the the McCantosh Computer to use it and says "COMPUTER?? HELLO COMPUTER???" McCoy hands him the mouse and clears his throat, and Scotty looks at the mouse, holds it up to his mouth like a microphone, and says very clearly, "COMPUTER!"


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## Badbeams3 (Feb 7, 2002)

Gransee, you should have been nice to that poor, lonely Mag sales fello and given him an AAA Arc...might have made him feel better about wasting his time there.

I looked at your picture and your much younger than I imagined. I expected a balding 45~50 year old. Well, I`m not going to hold that against you...your still ok in my book.

Thanks for the shot show report...I hear it will be held in Orlando next year...I will be able to make that one. Just look for the balding 47 year old with a cane and bad teeth...that`ll be me.


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## bluegreen (Feb 7, 2002)

So we can now put a face to Mr G. I always imagined him as a prof in a labcoat and windswept hair.





<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*...The other was the type III colors test for the Arc-AAA in red, blue, purple and green.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool.The AAA in green! You said that HA III produces dark tints. If this green is British racing green (or thereabouts) then I want one. When will they be available? Can I order one now with the latest brighter turquoise LEDs? (and a 3.0 case)

Now, where's my credit card...


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## bluegreen (Feb 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Put this test in the catagory with the microwave test I tried earlier...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Must have missed this one. I'm intrigued. Is this something similar to putting a dead household bulb into the microwave for one last brilliant glow?


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## JollyRoger (Feb 7, 2002)

I don't think I've received my retainers yet....

Am I getting them, too, Peter?


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## JollyRoger (Feb 7, 2002)

BTW, I showed a friend my ARC-LS and told him all about it...
It had the 2AA pack on with 2 freshly charged nimh AA's. Before I could say or do anything he pointed it at his face and turned it on.
DOH!











I think he's still seeing spots....poor fella...


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## Tesla (Feb 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harrkev:
*The new AAA-LE will be made from Unobtanium, and the CPF member edition will be milled from pure Balonium.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*How about upsydaisyum?*


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## flashfan (Feb 7, 2002)

A couple of days late, but just wanted to say "Thank you!" to Mr. Peter Gransee for the excellent review of the Shot Show, and for the picture of your booth. It is great to be able to put a face to your name. But I was shocked...you're not yet 30? You are wise beyond your years, and have accomplished more at your age than a lot of people do in their lifetime. Hats off to you!

P.S. Looking forward even more now, to the Arc LS and the CPF Arc AAA.


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## Darell (Feb 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by roger:
*he pointed it at his face and turned it on.
DOH!










*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are the same sort of people who check the sharpness of my knives by running a finger along it, huh? What is up with some people? A neighbor just blinded himself with my E2 the same way. Is that the only way they can tell if it is bright? Dang. Well, I can guarantee that they won't forget the experience.

Then there's the guy who wants to check the brightness of my Arc AAA by shining it at the wall 40' away during the day. Not.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 7, 2002)

I very much enjoyed the SHOT Show -- and yes,I'm the middle-aged balding guy in the show photo!!!! Peter was a hit with the various convention attendees; when he speaks about his product and flashlight technology, people listen and learn a lot. Thanks for being there, Peter!

I enjoyed meeting Size 15s and Mr. Ted Bear, thanks for stopping by. I gave out some professional samples to a federal agency for their review - and SWAT magazine said they want to write a review of ARC AAA's... Just some of the highlights in our sales efforts.





That's all for now, need to get some badly needed beauty rest (HEHEHEHEHE).

Steve Gibson
ARC Sales


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## Gransee (Feb 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by roger:
*














I don't think I've received my retainers yet....

Am I getting them, too, Peter?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd better! Drop me a line with your name and I will be happy to check on that.

Peter Gransee
[email protected]


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## Bushman (Feb 8, 2002)

ok guys i have just read the last nine pages of posts on this thread and think that i am up to speed

PETER 

let me clarify a couple of things. 
1)ARC AAA LE may be months because of high ranking led not available from nichia OR some have shipped or will ship within days to dealers listed on your web site?

2)ARC LS peter i tend to be strapped as far as money goes, can i buy a 2aa battery holder then a 123 battery holder and when (if) the lambertian white ls comes out then get the led/regulator head? will they fit the current battery packs? 
I think this is the way i will go.

Right now, because money is so tight i really only can afford two more lights and the AAA LE and a Lambertian white LS are the only two that i want. If the AAALE is coming very soon (within days) then i have some preparing to do... please post here or email me 

Thanks for your personal service. you must only sleep 4 hrs. a night...

Sincerely Bushman


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## JonSidneyB (Feb 8, 2002)

Anyone want to sell thier ARC-LS? Hmmm, didn't think so. Well if anyone knows where I can get one, let me know. I'm sure I will probably have to wait for more production.


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## One001 (Feb 8, 2002)

Peter, please advise if the new higher output limited run of Turquoise ARC AAA will have a more cyan or aqua blue color as opposed to the greener traffic light shade of the current Turquoise ARC AAA.


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## Gransee (Feb 8, 2002)

I will check the tint when they come in next week. The "E" tint rank is in the middle of the range for the blue-green (turquoise) LEDs. 

The turquoise batch we have been using for the past month has a more blue tint then the prior batch. I think I received the green tint because they where out of stock on the "E" tint.

The "EV" batch I just ordered (they shipped them yesterday by FedEX ground) should be arriving the end of next week and they should start shipping in Arc-AAAs the following week. I have never seen this brighter rank available and it may be awhile before it is available again. So I went out on a limb and ordered enough to last us 3-4 months.

We are offering these without making a special ado about them on our website. The packaging and invoicing looks the same. It will even be hard to spot them apart for some people. By keeping it simple, we also keep the cost down so this special rank is not charged extra. Also, the rest of the flaslight is a standard AT-BLK part.

Some of you have sent me emails asking me to ship this special rank. I will try my best to make sure you get one but I can't make any gurantees. It will be simpler in a few weeks because the previous rank will have been used up and all turqoises beeing shipped will only be the new "EV rank.

Try not to pester the dealers to much.



Sometimes it seems like it would be easier for them If I just didn't say anything about new product until they have been shipping for several months. 

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (Feb 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Try not to pester the dealers to much. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah - I know I'm guilty of that (and not just with Arc products). But then I'm there to BUY product, so I don't feel too bad about it. At Safeway I'm the guy who looks through all the milk cartons to get the latest date too. Seriously - I know you're half joking about keeping the improvements close to your chest, Peter... but letting us know what improvements are coming gets dorks like me scrambling for our VISAs again.

Just ship all these turquoise units to dealers in a little baggie labelled "CPF units." Then we can just call 'em up and tell them we want the good stuff. Nobody else needs to be the wiser. The stock gets purchased immediately with no extra effort by (or harrassment of) the dealer and everybody is happy. Just a thought (that I realize probably won't fly).


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## Gransee (Feb 8, 2002)

Moving right along then...

The machinists showed me a mod they want to make to the flashlight to improve the tail end finish.

The unfinished flashlight is the new design...










I like it. It doesn't make the flashlight longer, it is just as strong, elimenates the dependance on the hand deburring of the end, provides better swivel freedom, slightly larger hole and weighs less.

It does take getting used to though as far as how it looks. I put it on my keychain so I could get used to it and test it for any problems.

What do you think?

They also came up with a way to make the knurl wear slightly better without reducing the knurl precentage, etc. This will help all the colors (including the CPF edition) be more scratch resistant. This change has already been incorporated in the current run.

I was hoping 3.0 would be the last rev for awhile, but these are good mods to add. No, we are not trying to milk you for all your flashlight allowance...

Peter Gransee


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## txwest (Feb 8, 2002)

Peter,
I like it. Smooth, rounder lines. Won't hang up on thing as much. Probably less nicks. TX


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## geepondy (Feb 8, 2002)

I'm fussy and I think the Arc AAA has come a long way since it's initial introduction. However I'm so satisified with my LE (alright three LE's) that only a brighter LED would make me upgrade. I think the Arc AAA has reached a "maturity" stage and unless design is radically changed therefore necessitating a renaming of the model then any changes are pretty much going to be cosmetic. Not that it ever hurts to strive for continuous improvement. For me the biggest improvement would be in a more regulated circuit but not at the cost for brightness as you've posted in another thread.


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*

The machinists showed me a mod they want to make to the flashlight to improve the tail end finish.

It does take getting used to though as far as how it looks. I put it on my keychain so I could get used to it and test it for any problems.

What do you think?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Peter!

IMHO, the original design still looks the best...something more aesthetically pleasing about it.

Also, I usually carry two or three Arc AAA`s in my front pockets, without them being on a key chain. With the new design, it looks like you could "really hurt yourself" with that kind of carry if you`re not careful!


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## cybersoga (Feb 9, 2002)

Is this version 3.1 now? I like the new look, it does have less sharp edges to wear so i think it'll look good for longer. I hope you incorporate this design in the CPF edition. An unanodised version of the light looks quite neat too - with the bonus there's no anodising to wear off! Even though the hard anodising does last longer it doesn't stop it getting scratched/scuffed completely. have you considered selling unanodised versions of the light?


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## bluegreen (Feb 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*The machinists showed me a mod they want to make to the flashlight to improve the tail end finish.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks great. Reminds me of the machined whistles I've seen. Might be a bit more painful when in a front pocket but no more than the keys are anyway. Though the AAA never really had any sharp edges anyway.

Now, EV turquoise, green HA, 3.1 case...


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## Chris M. (Feb 9, 2002)

Interesting






If you wanted, send one of those new type, and the regular one (finished in HA) over this way, and I`ll stick them on the Evil Keychain of Doom, and see how they fare. It`s the ultimate daily-carry torture test! A year of normal person`s wear and tear in about a month!


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## txwest (Feb 9, 2002)

Hey Chris, What happened to the kitchen sink??



It must be there. Maybe under the keys??



I see 4 lights. Are there more there I'm missing? TX


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## bluegreen (Feb 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*The machinists showed me a mod they want to make to the flashlight to improve the tail end finish.
...




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was trying to figure out where I'd seen this before. Yup, that's right, nipple rings. _Hey, stop sniggering at the back._


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## Chris M. (Feb 9, 2002)

_Hey Chris, What happened to the kitchen sink?? It must be there. Maybe under the keys?? I see 4 lights. Are there more there I'm missing?_

Actually there are only 3 lights in that photo- an Arc, a Photon-2 and an Infinity. 

This one better...?










18 LED lights on there now!





ps- thanks again Jahn, for the little mini tools


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## Darell (Feb 9, 2002)

Well, now that we're on the subject of the tail end - if something is gonna poke out the end anyway I (almost) don't care what it is. My first preference would be to have a *recessed* lanyard hole: A flat bottom, with a groove cut across it, with a little bridge in the middle to hold split ring. I always seem to have a need to stand my lights on end.

If something has to stick out, it should stick out as little as possible. I can't say I'm a big fan of the nipple look (on flashlights, you understand). Has a recessed hole ever been considered? It would probably make the overall length a bit shorter, but the product would be ever so slightly heavier.


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## txwest (Feb 9, 2002)

You would have to be a kangeroo to have a pocket big enough for all that!!



TX


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## TrevorNasko (Feb 9, 2002)

gransee iwant that nipple version. ilike it unfinished and a solitiar nurling would be nice too
btw a scout freind hired me to find the best cheapest 1 led light out there and buy it for him



he now owns a arc white aaa. and for those that wonder- yes i did smuggle my E2e in along with it so the parents wouldnt know


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## Tesla (Feb 9, 2002)

I personally prefer the aesthetics of the current design....the "nipple" design looks fru-fru & mildly dangerous to the "boys" if you catch my drift.



(Did I mention I carry mine in a watch pocket). IMHO, knives should be as sharp as possible, not flashlights...maybe I'm a cult of one on this, though


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## bluegreen (Feb 9, 2002)

Perhaps functionality should come before groovy design - I sometimes want to stand the thing on its tail. A flat bottom like the LS or Mini Maglight would be good idea.

Chris, have you ever heard the one about having all of one's eggs in one basket? On the other hand if you did lose it you would be a lot lighter (pun intended).


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## Numbers (Feb 9, 2002)

Just bought 2 ARC AAA's and vote for one that can stand on its end!


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## Darell (Feb 9, 2002)

Uh-oh. Watching it Peter! My snowball is gaining momentum. I can't remember the last time anybody else agreed with an idea I posted. Yay.


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## Darell (Feb 9, 2002)

Just so we're all clear on this, here is an item that has a recessed hole like I'm looking for:


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## txwest (Feb 9, 2002)

Darell,
I'll have to fight you on this one. Something to make it "stand up" isn't too tough. You have clay, playdough, or numerous things to prop it up with. But where else can you get something that looks like a nipple ring. Just a single's person opinion, of course.









TX


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## Darell (Feb 9, 2002)

Yeah... If Peter starts making "Nipple Version 3.01" in red anodize, we're in BIG trouble.

My daughter drools all over my Arcs enough as it is. I don't need to give her even MORE incentive to suck on these things.

But make one stand erect, and I'm your guy.


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## Darell (Feb 9, 2002)

22 pages, 316 posts. Today this thread is one month old. Dang. Suppose there is any interest in the Arc product? Suppose that interest is gaining momentum? If Peter leaves this thread open as long as the last one, it'll be... uh. Well, HUGE.

I think our enthusiasm deserves a CPF edition AAA light! Or maybe a Turquoise EV to appease us....

Keep up the good work Peter! Have you gotten that nap that you so obviously needed at SHOT yet?


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## Bucky (Feb 9, 2002)

Definitely a CPF ARC AAA.





I like the new tail end as opposed to the standard one, but I think a recessed tail end like Darell is talking about would be better - except it may not allow the split ring to pivot enough. So actually, and I'd never though I'd say this, but I think the Mini-Mag has this part down. I think a tailcap like the Mini-Mag would be great. It would allow the the light to be stood on the tail end even with the split ring. It also would allow the split ring to pivot very well too because placing the cutout for the ring on one side of the tail end would allow for more ring movement. Follow?

Bucky


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## John Dickinson (Feb 9, 2002)

I saw one or two requests for an "unfinished" (no anodizing) version. Raw aluminum isn't too nice IMHO. It oxidizes and your hands get dirty handling it. I have a Mag Solitaire (now no longer used - not that it was very useful while I carried it) in a somewhat uncommon clear anodized version. I liked the clear finish as wear and nicks are hard to see. I thought anodizing was naturally clear, but Peter's comments seem to imply that it isn't, particulary with respect to the Type III HA finish, so a clear Type III HA finish may not be feasable. While I thought the clear finish was cool, I suspect the market likes black best, followed by other colors.


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## MY (Feb 9, 2002)

My vote is for the flat tail end. Personally, I take off the split rings on all my lights before I place a lanyard through the hole. Unless you are keeping a light on a keychain, why have a split ring - only adds more weight. I wonder if most people carry their ARC AAA on a keyring. I think that it is too big for a keyring. My Photon 3 which is the perfect size, lives on my keyring.


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## Darell (Feb 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bucky:
*I think a recessed tail end like Darell is talking about would be better... but I think the Mini-Mag has this part down. I think a tailcap like the Mini-Mag would be great.... *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

An even better idea! Heck, I don't car HOW the hole is recessed, as long as it is. I just wasn't smart enough to consider the Minimag solution. I'm all for having it on the side as well. With well-placed relief cuts, the split ring could be allowed to pivot no matter where it is located, but there is no reason NOT to put the hole on the outter edge I suppose.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MY:
* Unless you are keeping a light on a keychain, why have a split ring - only adds more weight. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adds to the noise too. And it my case, it even adds to the chest-hair removal - OUCH. I'm with you - no split rings if I have the thing around my neck!

Man! Looks like we have quite a few flat-tailend votes here. Have I started a mutiny?


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## supertrucker (Feb 9, 2002)

Go flat end! Wohooo!
Lets not forget about the POCKET CLIP!!!
Ida' know maybe it's just me, but I have devloped a real H**d on for the pocket clip,
because I don't like to have to dig around in my pocket for my light and they also ensure your light doesn't roll away when set down.


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## hawkins1965 (Feb 9, 2002)

Hey Mr. Peter G.,

I just registered this forum but I have been reading it for quite some time. I have compared the specs of many different led flashlights and think yours are the best around, period! I am trying to buy an ARC white or LE. There is no way to find out what version I'm ordering at your website or any of your dealers short of emailing to each of you guys. My humble suggestion is for your sales people to post on your site the version number and the respective specs (and improvements) of each of your lights. And have your dealers post on their sites just the version numbers of the flashlights they are currently selling. Sort of like how the software companies deal with their products versions. Thanks!


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## supertrucker (Feb 10, 2002)

Gransee, hard to believe one of my biggest heros is 4 months younger than me! Well, Had to happen sooner or later I guess. A few questions and comments.
1) When can we expect the CPF-AAA?
2) I love the knurling on the LE, feels kinda like suede to me.
3) Any word on a pocket clip for the AAA's?
I would like to add one and I figure you could do it better than I could!
4) I like the nipple end, but would also like to see a flat end so it could be stood up.
Just my 2 cents.


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## Graham (Feb 10, 2002)

I agree with the flat-end idea, that would be the way I'd like to see it go. Can't say I like the nipple style though - given the choice I'd stay with the current design (or a flat end design..)

Graham


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Well, now that we're on the subject of the tail end - if something is gonna poke out the end anyway I (almost) don't care what it is. My first preference would be to have a *recessed* lanyard hole: A flat bottom, with a groove cut across it, with a little bridge in the middle to hold split ring. I always seem to have a need to stand my lights on end.

If something has to stick out, it should stick out as little as possible. I can't say I'm a big fan of the nipple look (on flashlights, you understand). Has a recessed hole ever been considered? It would probably make the overall length a bit shorter, but the product would be ever so slightly heavier.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Darrel,
I'm with you on free-standing capability, and I thought of a solution I might try when my next AAA comes in the mail: File the keychain hole off completely until the base is flat, and just store it in one of those handy Kydex keychain holder things. Yeah, the bottom would lose it's HA finish, but I don't anticipate any flashlight-destroying forces on that surface anyway, so no biggy.

CPF has turned me into a whiner. ARC AAA is such a nice product already; I would never have thought to nit-pick it without first having read all the ideas being thrown around on here.


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## Badbeams3 (Feb 10, 2002)

Does anyone know if the 70 degree wide beam Nachia`s are ranked..."S" for example...I would like to see some tests performed using this wide beam for possible consideration in the CPF Arc. 

As far as the tail end goes...if it`s not on a woman I don`t care that much.


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## JonSidneyB (Feb 10, 2002)

I would like to try the best that I can to explain what I think is the perfect tailend to a small light. 

1. From the side view, a slight rounding so as not to have any edge at all where it then becomes a perfectly flat surface.

2. When looking stright on from the bottom, it looks like two circles, one within the other. What this is is a recessed area that is flat at the bottom of the cavity. The recess is very slight and very squared with the side wall.

3. Contained in this recess is a fold away D-ring. When folded away, it is flush with the bottom. When unfolded, it is a centered attachment point for a keyring, zipper pull, backpacks, hiking clothes, etc. The D-ring could be removable as well.

Just my thoughts.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 10, 2002)

HI
Yes ,being able to stand the AAA on end sound
good to me


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## Darell (Feb 10, 2002)

OK, while I'm on a roll here.... I just had one of my rare flashes of brilliance last night as I was falling asleep. Hear me out, because these flashes don't come around that often. I'll get right to the idea, then explain:

*CPF Edition AAA in blue HA with the high-output turquoise LED.* (Oh, might as well allow it to stand on end too



)

Let that sink in for a bit....

Here are the benefits that I see for this scenario:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>1. I really want the low production turquoise light one way or another.
2. This will make the CFP edition even more different from the "regular" LE. Read: Unique.
3. This will allow the CFP Edition to be made in my lifetime. Read: Now.
4. The light color will be easily ID'd by the case color (!).
5. I can't think of any other way of being assured of getting the rare turquoise LED.
[/list]

The only downside I see to this is for those folks who only want to own one AAA, and want that one to be the CPF Edition in white. Maybe there are other reasons against it? For it?

For me, this would just be slick! What do you guys think? Should we begin a petition?

I'm going to be away from a computer for a couple of days (the horror!) so don't beat me up too bad in my absence.


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## Bucky (Feb 10, 2002)

Hate to disagree, but the CPF Edition has to be white. I own different color Photons and the one thing I have concluded is that white is definitely better, even if it is a little less bright. Also, I just think that overall, more people prefer white and I think the more people that can be a part of the CPF Edition, the better. Plus, I think many of the incandescent fans might have a hard time paying $30 for a turquoise light.

I would like the see the CPF Edition ASAP too, but I think we need to wait for the brighter white LEDs - it will be worth the wait.





Bucky


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## Darell (Feb 10, 2002)

Bucky -

Hmm. Shoulda stopped while I was ahead with the flat-bottom deal, huh?

All good considerations. Fanatics like me already have so many whites, that another color with great output would be a welcome addition. Plus, like I mentioned, the CPF Ed. in white would be very similar to the LE except for the case color and engraving. And of course I'm being selfish in trying to find a way to be assured of purchasing the new turquoise LED.

One thing I need to point out: The rank of the LE LED is not "brighter" than what is now being used in the standard AAA. It is a slightly different tint (assuming I understand the current white situation) I have several white standards and several white LEs. They all have the "B" rank LEDs, but some are more blue (standard), while the others are more green (LE).

Never feel bad about disagreeing - especially with me. Dissenting opinions are what makes the world a better place.

I'm outta here.


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## Badbeams3 (Feb 10, 2002)

Hi Darell, may I suggest drinking a glass of milk before bed...my mother says it helps prevent crazy dreams and thoughts when sleeping.





Now, back to the idea of using a wide beam white in the CPF light. What does everyone think...a nice bright wide beam. And we could have it now. Available only to members.
Differant from all other AAA Arc`s. We`ll be the envey of non-member light lovers across the globe. 

Vote smooth 70 degree wide beam...it`s the right choice.


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## TrevorNasko (Feb 10, 2002)

any thing but a standard white. like turquious and i like wide beam. anything DIFFERENT! darrell i hate to say that i dont like the flat end. it is so small it would tople any way. i like the nipple idea
dont be mad


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## Bucky (Feb 10, 2002)

Well darell I do agree about one thing



- I was wrong in saying that the LEDs we are waiting for are "brighter"; they are in fact whiter and not brighter. Excuse my mistake



.

Bucky


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## Darell (Feb 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aragorn:
*any thing but a standard white. like turquious and i like wide beam. anything DIFFERENT! darrell i hate to say that i dont like the flat end. it is so small it would tople any way. i like the nipple idea
dont be mad*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man! Why does everybody think I'm gonna get mad? I know I'm right - and I'm comfortable with that





You don't have to like the flat end, Aragorn, but do know that they stand just fine on the reflector end right now. I store mine like that all the time. Anything will topple if you knock it, but the AAA would stand just great on its butt.

OK, now I'm REALLY leaving...


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## John Dickinson (Feb 10, 2002)

The clever and distinctive Maglite tail may be patented or otherwise restricted. Even if Arc could use the design, I doubt Peter wants the Arc AAA to look like a Maglite copy. The nipple tail design may be best from a purely functional viewpoint (except for standing on the tail), but in my opinion it isn't as cool looking as the current extruded-like design. The extruded look is "in" these days. The current Arc tail is NOT extruded and that's probably why the machinists want to simplify and improve it at the same time. They say "form follows function" to which I reply that appearance is an important part of the function. The new nipple design eliminates the sharp edges that contribute to wear in my pocket. At the same time, the rounded surface may show more wear on the light than the current edges. The new design would also impact existing photos and related materials. Overall, my vote would go to the new nipple design. I never stood a Maglite on end anyhow...


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2002)

I would really like to see the 'LS-style' tail on the AAA, it's practical and recognizable.




As far as originality goes, if you want nipple-style, look here








(foto taken from zweibrueder)


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## K Horn (Feb 10, 2002)

That new tail gives the ARC a femine look to it.

Maybe save it for the "Lady ARC" version in powderpuff blue of course.


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## Blades (Feb 10, 2002)

I found a clip that fits on my Arc AAA. I took it off of my 2AAA Mini-Mag light. It fits on there just right. FYI


Blades


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## papasan (Feb 11, 2002)

you could do a simple flat bottom by leaving all the metal there, instead of cutting out the nipple design, and drilling two cone shaped holes, one from either end of the light, that meet in the middle...i'm bad at describing it, i know...basically, think of the arc-aaa body as the body tube with an hour-glass type hole put into it very near to the 'butt' end of the tube and perpandicular (sp?) to the it...might be harder to put the split ring into it, but it would be center hung and would easily move out of the way to sit it flat...


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## Gransee (Feb 11, 2002)

Thanks for the input people- I had no idea some felt so strongly. I told the machinists this morning to redesign the tailend. I'll post some pictures of some possible canidates soon.


Peter


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## Sam (Feb 11, 2002)

Are most of the distributors selling the "new" red AAA Arc yet? Should I order direct from ARC to be sure?


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## Darell (Feb 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Thanks for the input people- I had no idea some felt so strongly.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I try to be passionate in everything I do. That approach has two main advantages:

1. Most people think I'm serious
2. Most people think I'm crazy

Bring on the flat tail-end! If you'd like to make a prototype flat-end in blue anodize with, say, the new turquoise LED, I'd be happy to test it for you.


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## The_LED_Museum (Feb 11, 2002)

Can the nipple tail. It makes the Arc look like a micro-robot's baby bottle.




The original U-shaped tailpiece looks better to me, and seems to work just as well.


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## mikep (Feb 11, 2002)

I don't really know much about the machining process, but could the tail end be made into a truncated cone? It seems this would be an easy shape to make (most of the machining is on a lathe, right?), and the end would be small enough in diameter that a hole drilled through would accomodate the split ring. Oh yeah, and leave the end flat for Darell


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## Gransee (Feb 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sam:
*Are most of the distributors selling the "new" red AAA Arc yet? Should I order direct from ARC to be sure?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not all of them. It takes a while to work through inventory. If it is in a package, it is the new LED.

Peter


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## Empath (Feb 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Thanks for the input people- I had no idea some felt so strongly. I told the machinists this morning to redesign the tailend. I'll post some pictures of some possible canidates soon. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're considering opinions, it seems that the ones asking for the change, compared to those that haven't even entered the conversation is is a very small sampling. Of course I can't speak for the rest, but my own personal preference is to continue with the same tail design.


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## One001 (Feb 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
CPF Edition AAA in blue HA with the high-output turquoise LED. (Oh, might as well allow it to stand on end too



)

*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll vote for that providing the EV turquoise has more of a blue tint rather than green tint to it. If these EV LED's are truly limited in production and absolutely the brightest LED out there, that would make the CPF edition truly unique and limited, and not just an LE in a blue case. Standing on end would be a bonus.


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## Harrkev (Feb 11, 2002)

I happen to like the current design too. For some strange reason, the new "nipple" design is just a little harder to take seriously. Standing on end might be nice, but I never found it to be absolutely vital.

Don't forget that I have *NOT* built a successful company selling an outstanding product that people rave about, so take my opinion for what it is worth (not much).

BTW: Whatever you do, you have an awesome product, and I can hardly wait to get my hands on a new 3.0 unit.


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## vcal (Feb 11, 2002)

Re: change to: flat-base Arc-AAA
Would further design modifications add another increase in the cost of the light? Also, it might be well to remember that this great little light was originally designed primarily for _keyring_ use, -right?


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## The_LED_Museum (Feb 11, 2002)

Testing... 00000001, 00000010, 00000011










Two test pictures of the early Arc LS prototype. Both were taken at the camera's smallest picture size and maximum compression just to see how bad I could make it. 
The second picture was without tripod or flash and was taken under the dull glow of a distant compact fluorescent bulb, and it still came out alright all things considered.

I wonder how a production LS would look under that coily fluorescent bulb.


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## Chris M. (Feb 11, 2002)

_Both were taken at the camera's smallest picture size and maximum compression just to see how bad I could make it. _


Craig, it seems that with that fancy new camera, you`ll have to try as hard to take a _bad_ picture, as I have to do to take a _good_ pic with my equipment! 

I will now quit moaning at how pathetic my equipment is, and just put up with it.






Nice pics, considering you`d just plonked the bits there infront of you and clicked the shutter!


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## Chris M. (Feb 11, 2002)

_it might be well to remember that this great little light was originally designed primarily for keyring use, -right?_

I have to agree. While the flat bottom style (á-lá-Mag Solitaire) would be a nice touch- I expect most users will never want to stand it on end. And if they do, just cut a merferator* in half and prop it up in the middle.

The nipple design has failed to grow on me, guess I just like it as-is, but let`s see what else Peter and the team come up with first...






*go here to find out what the heck I`m on about.


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## txwest (Feb 11, 2002)

I may be mistaken, but I got the feeling when Peter brought up the posibility of going to the "nipple end", it was partly to speed up production. Am I right on this Peter? TX


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Thanks for the input people- I had no idea some felt so strongly. I told the machinists this morning to redesign the tailend. I'll post some pictures of some possible canidates soon.


Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Present design...Yes.<LI>Nipple design...No.<LI>Other design... Maybe...
<LI>No matter what... we`ll still buy Arc`s![/list]


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## Gransee (Feb 11, 2002)

Yes, that is why it was brought to me. I gave our shop a monthly quota to fulfill and they suggested this might reduce the time it takes to produce each unit. They said it would also reduce the cost since more of the work is done by machine and less by hand. Of course, I am all ears as long as the quality, usability, durability and styling of the unit is not diminished.

Another important detail is that eliminating labor from a design tends to improve the consistency of it manufacture. We have had some problems in the past with blemishes on the tail end because the operator did not buff out the loop correctly.

I have talked to them several times since they proposed the "nipple" idea and they are working up some alternate designs. This effort is ok in the grand scheme to improve lead times because it does not cost anything for us (they suggested it) and it might improve delivery times.

Peter Gransee


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## K Horn (Feb 11, 2002)

You know Peter, if the original ARC had come out with the nipple, you would still have a hit.

SO.....MAKE IT BRIGHTER, BURN LONGER, GIVE US AN AA BATTERY OPTION, GIVE IT A CLIP, DROP THE PRICE,,,,,,,,,
JUST DON'T CHANGE IT!!! I can assure you that most of us will still find something to complain about


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 11, 2002)

Hey all, I've been away for a few days and returned to my new retainer ring for my LS.
Has any one had any problems with the new ring. Mine seems like it a bit to thick. 
I used a tupperwear orange pealer and a pencil eraser to remove all the foam and inserted the new one.
I use rayovac 123s'. When I turned the head down to turn it on nothing, turned a little tighter, nothing, turned it hard bingo. So I took the retainer out and removed the plastic sticky part, but I still had the same problem. I removed it all and the light seems to work fine, just has a little bat rattle.
I put the retainer back in, and the other battery packs work fine.
I dont mind just thought I would put it out there.


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## Darell (Feb 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by vcal:
> *it might be well to remember that this great little light was originally designed primarily for keyring use, -right?*
> 
> Doug-
> ...


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## vcal (Feb 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*



Originally posted by vcal:
[qb]it might be well to remember that this great little light was originally designed primarily for keyring use, -right?

Click to expand...

*


> Doug-
> 
> I hope I never gave the impression that it should be anything otherwise. All the flat-bottom ideas that have been suggested have taken into account the split ring. The Solitaire (with a flat bottom) is still a keychain light, right? It is _because_ this is the light that I always carry with me that makes me want the end-standing feature. This would simply be an added benefit without taking away any other current functionality. It would absolutely still be a keyright light... just a better one, IMHO.
> 
> ...


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## Darell (Feb 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vcal:
*
Btw-it sure doesn't come off of the factory ring very easily, does it?




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure doesn't. BUT, I finally did figure out that the metal is MUCH thinner between the hole and the very butt end of the lanyard "fin." The first ring I removed I tried to straddle the entire thick fin. That hurt. If I've made sense, try it the thinner way, and you'll probably be much happier.

With the light standing on the reflector, put the split ring parallel to the table as you remove it.


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## JollyRoger (Feb 12, 2002)

I think the flat end is a great idea...I've been wanting this in the ARC LE. How about just making the end like the ARC-LS? (And adding a clip)


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## Spidey82 (Feb 13, 2002)

peter,
how bright is the XR on low (15ma)??
like the infinity?? p3 on mid???
Linfeng


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## Gransee (Feb 13, 2002)

Spidey, I would say it is similiar to the Infinity with a fresh battery.

Craig is the only other person on the CPF that has seen it so he might want to add his thoughts as well...

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Feb 13, 2002)

Darell, whom we all know and love



just sent me an email...

_Why is it that suddenly all the dealers are saying they have LE's again? I thought the supply had run out a while back, and new ones were not coming out until you found more of the special LED's. Is this the new batch? I didn't hear mention of the LEDs being available again. I'm always curious how 'L' this 'E' is or will be._

I posted here several weeks ago saying that the LEs where running dry and after we shipped our last batch to the dealers, we would be out of stock. 

Well, last week we finally shipped the last order out to the dealers. Most of what they received was already spoken for by back orders in their systems. Some of them may have some extra units though- but not for long as you can imagine.

Here's who you can check:

1StopKnifeShop
BrightGuy
Texas Tactical Supply
GlowBug
Springboard Engineering
Triple Aught Design

Peter Gransee 

_Valentine, I am such a disgrace.
Your beauty lights up my face.
I dumbly returned the favor...
with my HD-LS light saber!_

And they say my love is blind...


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## DavidW (Feb 13, 2002)

Is there a website for Springboard Engineering?


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## The_LED_Museum (Feb 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*peter,
how bright is the XR on low (15ma)??
like the infinity?? p3 on mid???
Linfeng*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don' have these anymore, so I can't compare and give you "live" results. I also did not take pictures because of the sensitive nature of the product.

If I remember right, the brighter of the two was brighter than my white Infinity and had a definite greenish cast when compared to the Infinity's white LED.

The dimmer of the two was somewhere along the lines of a Photon 3 set to "low".

I believe I can obtain a more complete answer for you by digging through the system trash and seeing if I can reconstruct some of the data I acquired.


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## Gransee (Feb 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DavidW:
*Is there a website for Springboard Engineering?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve doesn't have a website but he can be reached at [email protected] . I understand he has a good number of LE's in stock. I think he is selling them for $35.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Feb 14, 2002)

*LS Update:*

The bare LS-LED is now back in stock as of today. I temporarily lowered the price from $14/pc to $12.50/pc. These have the new optics and can be ordered here. These are being offered per your request for experimenting and flashlight mods.

We finally received our shipment of LS emitters and optics yesterday. The optics have changed and now produce an improved beam from before. The beam appears to be smoother and less blobby. These will go into the 1.0 version Arc-LS's we are producing right now. The first 1.0's should come off the assembly line the first week of March.

Today we tested the new centering tool and where able to consistently center the optics in the units we tested.

The knurl and o-ring position have also been improved for the 1.0 version. Add to this the improved optics and new retainer design.

Peter Gransee


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## Chris M. (Feb 14, 2002)

_The first 1.0's should come off the assembly line the first week of March.
_

*Yay*





Counting the days....


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## Bright Scouter (Feb 14, 2002)

Peter, 

I 'spose these won't be "First Run #'d" like the first round were will they? 

I'm glad they will be coming soon. I've purchased 3 surefires since the day I ordered the LS and the order went on hold. I was gonna go broke if you didn't get those shipped pretty soon.





Del


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## Gransee (Feb 14, 2002)

Yes, the 1.0's will have serial numbers. 

Peter


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## Darell (Feb 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Darell, whom we all know and love




<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

Grin. I'll assume that's flattery....


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 14, 2002)

It's Valentine's Day, and I feel the love from Peter. My new ARC LE arrived in the mail today. Upon inspection, it has a golden hue inside, unlike the plain aluminum surface inside my old LE. I believe this indicates a ChemKote interior, making me one of the lucky few to own an LE in version 3.0!!!!! 

I took a photo. It's slightly out of focus, but if you look at the threads of the new LE compared to the one on my keychain, the color difference is obvious.


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## John Dickinson (Feb 14, 2002)

A few days ago mikep mentioned that a "truncated cone" might make a good tail for the Arc AAA. I agree. It should have the easy-to-manufacture qualities of the nipple design while retaining a clean, angled appearance. The trick would be to get all the dimensions right without adding much to the overall length -- or at least not making it longer than the nipple design. The ring could be more difficult to attach, but I think it's worth a try.

John


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## Darell (Feb 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John ****inson:
* The trick would be to get all the dimensions right without adding much to the overall length -- or at least not making it longer than the nipple design. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think one of the beauties of a "flat end" is that the light will most likely end up being shorter overall. Certainly shorter than the nipple design. I can't wait to see some of the protos that Peter will have soon.


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## papasan (Feb 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*These have the new optics...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

are these new optics a little concave on top with a round button-like protusion from the middle?...if so i got couple like this...thought it was just the way the white LSes came, my amber lambertians are smooth flat on the top...


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> The first 1.0's should come off the assembly line the first week of March <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...oh please...oh please...oh please let mine be in there!





If not, then I, too, shall wait with the throngs of baited-breath(ers).


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## Gransee (Feb 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by papasan:
*are these new optics a little concave on top with a round button-like protusion from the middle?...if so i got couple like this...thought it was just the way the white LSes came, my amber lambertians are smooth flat on the top...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually these are flat on top like some of the old style lenses for the colors but with an interesting center interior added.

Peter


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## Termac (Feb 15, 2002)

Some LS feedback:

I really like the LS retainer upgrade. It meets the prime objective of making 123s usable, but also very much appreciated is that the turn-on effort for 2AA and 1AA is lighter. This may eliminate battery butt cave-in because there is less compression during turn-on and the feel is better.

I got a Surfire FOx beam shaper for the LX after having seen the tip from Gman some time ago. That was one great tip! It somehow blends LS output into a perfect white flood, and the hex bezel is very desirable at times for grip, protection, knowing which end is which and anti-roll. (The beam shaper also makes an awesome flood on the E2.)


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 16, 2002)

Can any one post part# for the SF beam shapers? I dont want to order the wrong ones.


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## Daniel Ramsey (Feb 16, 2002)

The only part number I have is:LXHL-NX05 (the optic only) and I honestly do not know if this is the "improved version" that has been mentioned or weather its for the batwing or lambertian series. Way things are lately I avoid Future-Active since they got $350.00 from me and I have zip, nada, nothing. And its their accounting/shipping error they admit it.


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## Gransee (Feb 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ledlight:
*Can any one post part# for the SF beam shapers? I dont want to order the wrong ones.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SF part number FO4

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 17, 2002)

Well...I've been away for 2 weeks and what do you know...there are 11 new pages to read.
If one person could give a short summary (i.e. Arc LS news) I would be greatly appreciative and save a lot of time! Thanks.

p.s. It's good to be back!
My Arc LE was with me in every cave every day for the last 2 weeks! Just in case!


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## Gransee (Feb 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by melmso:
*Well...I've been away for 2 weeks and what do you know...there are 11 new pages to read.
If one person could give a short summary (i.e. Arc LS news) I would be greatly appreciative and save a lot of time! Thanks.

p.s. It's good to be back!
My Arc LE was with me in every cave every day for the last 2 weeks! Just in case!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's you very own RD version of what's new:

- Just got back from the SS (SHOT Show) in Vegas on the 5th. Posted report and picture to Arc thread (page 17).
- XR tested in two versions. 15 hours and 11-day. No ship date.
- CPF blue has been tested, was shown at SS, being redone to make the HA tougher. Other finish colors tested at same time. Second design expected around the 24th.
- 55 lumen High Dome orange LS proto shown at SS. 6 months to ship.
- New LS retainers shipped to all LS owners, response seems postive so far.
-Arc-LS back in manufacturing, first week of March some units expected.
- New version Arc-AAA 3.0 adds black HA, Chemkote interior, battery, packaging. Shipping now in limited qty. New price to pay for it all is $28.95
- Limited run of brighter "EV" turquiose Arc-AAA's in about a week
- New brighter Arc-AAA LEDs in UV (6-12x brighter!), Red, Yellow and Orange. Shipping now in limited qty.
- New tail end design explored for Arc-AAA(page 20 and on)
- LS W/O back on sale at our website. This is just the LS LED with optics for use in mods, etc. Price temporarily lowered from $14 to $12.50.
- New optics for the LS seem to improve the beam quality somewhat.
- New 5W LS discussed. Available early next year?

So how did the LE work for you in the caves?

Peter Gransee


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## LEDagent (Feb 17, 2002)

I don't know if this has been discussed...or maybe it has? ANyway, have you ever thought of a dual CR123 compartment that uses both simulteously and is limited somehow so not to kill the LED? I was just dreaming about this cuz i would guess that one can toy around (digitally) how bright or how long you want the LS to shine. Ya know what I mean? 

Is it possible to create this without having to change the design of the LS head - which you have worked on for Soooo long now?


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## Klaus (Feb 17, 2002)

Dear Peter,

I have been emailing you on the email adress you are using in your CPF profile - no reponse so far, PM-ed you on CPF as you had been posting on CPF so I knew you where theoretically available - no response either - emailed and PM-ed again earlier today and got this reponse from [email protected] when emailing to "[email protected]".

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

[email protected]

So I also emailed to the adress you are giving on your site - [email protected] - also thought it can´t hurt posting here as you seem to read this thread/CPF more regular than your email





Thx for reading

Klaus


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## cave dave (Feb 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*- .... Limited run of brighter "EV" turquiose Arc-AAA's in about a week...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe we could arrange a Group Buy through TTS or another retailer so that the CPF members could be sure of getting one of the special Turquiose? 
Gransee and William what do you think?


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## papasan (Feb 17, 2002)

i would like this...i want to buy a turqouis but would only do so if i were gauranteed to get one the EV ones...

even better, imho, is to make them into the cpf special arcs, but i don't think this will happen...


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## Flashlightboy (Feb 17, 2002)

With all the different versions of the AAA, does the latest batch of LEs have the 3.0 version updates?


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## WillnTex (Feb 17, 2002)

I have no problem with it.


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## Graham (Feb 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
*Maybe we could arrange a Group Buy through TTS or another retailer so that the CPF members could be sure of getting one of the special Turquiose? 
Gransee and William what do you think?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that's a good idea. I'd be in on that..

Graham


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## Gransee (Feb 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
*I don't know if this has been discussed...or maybe it has? ANyway, have you ever thought of a dual CR123 compartment that uses both simulteously and is limited somehow so not to kill the LED? I was just dreaming about this cuz i would guess that one can toy around (digitally) how bright or how long you want the LS to shine. Ya know what I mean? 

Is it possible to create this without having to change the design of the LS head - which you have worked on for Soooo long now?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't remember if it has or not. It's one of the zillion designs on the drawing board. To keep from bugging my contractors too much, I doodle fanciful flashlight designs in my spare time. You name it.

The current LS circuit would fry the LED if it had a 6 volt input. Later designs will most likely be designed to handle a 6volt, 2-123 pack.

We do have a proto of a 3volt, 2-123 pack that has one in use and the other in spare. It is called the "Curt Special" (after our head machinist), but interest has been underwealming for this pack.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*Dear Peter,

I have been emailing you on the email adress you are using in your CPF profile - no reponse so far, PM-ed you on CPF as you had been posting on CPF so I knew you where theoretically available - no response either - emailed and PM-ed again earlier today and got this reponse from [email protected] when emailing to "[email protected]".

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

[email protected]

So I also emailed to the adress you are giving on your site - [email protected] - also thought it can´t hurt posting here as you seem to read this thread/CPF more regular than your email





Thx for reading

Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I finally got several messages from you and replied to one of them. I think good old MSN had a hairball. Hopefully it is back to normal now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
*Maybe we could arrange a Group Buy through TTS or another retailer so that the CPF members could be sure of getting one of the special Turquiose? 
Gransee and William what do you think?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You bet. We will add the designation "EV" to the back of the package in sharpie marker so you know you are getting the real deal. 

Kinda wishing I had offered to sell these at a higher price now.





I am checking out the first batch of EV boards this week so I will see if I can tell a difference between them and the regulars. Maybe post some pictures. Either, way we are only charging the regular price for them.

William, send me over an order for them, same price as the regular AT-BLK's. We can probally ship them next week. These will have all the 3.0 improvements of course.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff:
*With all the different versions of the AAA, does the latest batch of LEs have the 3.0 version updates?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since the LE production came to an end about the same time the 3.0 improvements where released, only a few are version 3.0. Not all the dealers will have them. So you might check around. 

Here's the one easy way to spot a 3.0: The threads have a gold tint.

Good news, I requested an inventory of our parts and found that we had a little over a hundred finished PCB's with SB1 LEDs attached! They were stashed in a small baggy with the LS parts. Not a bunch, but maybe enough to do a small CPF edition run? 

I know, I feel kinda sheepish finding these because it gives some indication of how messy our parts can be. One of these days I am gonna spring for a nice bin system.

I searched through the rest of the parts and found some old reds (the funky narrow beam models we used to use). But that was it.

Anyways, I got the plater doing another test batch of dark blues again. He should have them done this week. I asked him to put the HA on just as thick as with the black. It should be interesting to see how they look. I will post pictures of course. These will also have the new knurling geometry which looks the same but is slightly more scratch resistant. If the color works out, then we will make up 120 (extras to cover QC losses) bodies in dark blue, plug in the SB1 boards and offer them for $35 from our website only (they won't last long). No preorders please. We can probally get these shipping about the same time the LS's start coming off the line again (hoping this happens the first week of March).

The CPF editions will have two lines of text- one near the head and one near the tail (just like the LE). The top line says, "Arc Flashlight, etc...". The bottom line says, "CPF Member Edition".

I know some people wanted their member number printed on the flashlight. We can do this is just adds about 2 weeks to the delivery time. This is all CO2 laser applied text and it the same thing as what we use on the standard Arc-AAA so you know it's durable. We also would charge extra for the service ($3). This is mostly to cover handling since lasering only costs a little over a buck per flashlight. The bottom line would then read, "CPF Member ####". Its your call, I think most people will want the member # (I would go for it).

After the test later this week and if it looks good, then I will post the particulars of when/where/etc on how to get one of these.

Peter Gransee


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## Lonewolf (Feb 17, 2002)

Peter if you are going to do a run of the CPF edition can I suggest one per member so that most of us can get one.


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## Glow Bug (Feb 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5BY5:
*Peter if you are going to do a run of the CPF edition can I suggest one per member so that most of us can get one.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree.


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## Termac (Feb 18, 2002)

Speaking of the “Curt Special” again... How about configuring this so that it could accept a second illuminator head... Becomes the Pushmepullyou model.


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## supertrucker (Feb 18, 2002)

I can't wait for the "CPF" version!!! I agree with one per customer, maybe you could make them only available via a special link from the CPF and require a member #? Not to be greedy but it IS a CPF edition.
Just my 2 cents.


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## cave dave (Feb 18, 2002)

About that Nipple:

Is the hole in the nipple the same diameter as the current model? I usually toss the ring and put a lanyard through the hole so I don't want it getting any smaller. Also the current flat part serves as a nice "bite-tab". The Nipple might be even more pleasent, hmmmm




I prefer the old looks, but if it brings the price back down I'm all for it.

About the 15ma version:
How about calling it the "D2D" model, for from "Dusk To Dawn" since thats how long it will last. I want one and I think some others here want one too.

Color:
Please, Please, Please make a silver version. It won't need to be Type 3 hard annodized because it won't show scratches and wear. This would save you some money and you could pass it on to the consumer.

Actually I would like to see each color LED anodized with a matching case color. That way I could instantly tell which Arc I was reaching for.



Boy I shure would like a turquoise case for my turquise LED. Someday when you start making the big bucks it may happen.

Enough rant for today.


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## Gransee (Feb 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Termac:
*Speaking of the “Curt Special” again... How about configuring this so that it could accept a second illuminator head... Becomes the Pushmepullyou model.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another good idea. That was part of the curt special as well. He's big on two headed flashlights (he came up with a two header for the Arc-AAA, One was white and the other was red). Its like working with a fellow CPF'er sometimes. Or two of me.





So anyone else want something like this? 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by supertrucker:
*I can't wait for the "CPF" version!!! I agree with one per customer, maybe you could make them only available via a special link from the CPF and require a member #? Not to be greedy but it IS a CPF edition.
Just my 2 cents.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will see what I can do. You have my assurance that we will only sell these to people who provide at least a CPF user ID. One flashlight per person so that everyone gets a fair chance.

Peter Gransee


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## John N (Feb 18, 2002)

Not that you asked, but here are the re-occuring, non-solicited rantings of a flash-o-holic....

Tail cap in order of preference:
1) Current version
2) Stand on end
3) Whatever  

XR: Yes, please! If we have to choose between the two variants, I'd prefer the longer run time unit.

Two 123A Li Cells: What if they were in parallel, not series? I know, I know, tricky to make, but would it kill the light?

Dual headed lights: Perhaps. If I could get an merged XR/normal light no other way, I could consider this if it was rigged up to use the same cell(s) for both ends (understood not dual Li). Sounds a tricky tho. If you could get the same cell business figured out this might actually be pretty trick if you could mix and match your heads. Ah, can I have a normal white on one end with an XR red on the other?! Cool! I'm not really interested in two lights with two power supplies tho, might as well tape two together (I think someone here does that already).

Top things I want (in order):

1) Multi mode lights, that is to say, some way to have XR *and* normal AAA Arc from one light. This would be very desirable in both the Arc AAA *and* the LS. Best ergonomic would be "turn on for XR" and then turn some more for normal mode. Of course I understand this isn't super easy to implement in a reliable, cost effective package. A second switch, while less desirable would also be reasonable. On an interesting note, if you could nail this, you could probably reduce costs because you wouldn't need to make two lights, and perhaps broaden appeal. In general, more than two levels would be even better. Heck, a LS that could output the light of the AAA long-run XR on up to the normal output would be VERY trick. 

2) One and two C and D cell holders for Arc LS.

3) Dual 123A capable version of the LS.

-john


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## Darell (Feb 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by papasan:
*even better, imho, is to make them into the cpf special arcs, but i don't think this will happen...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If more people had spoken up when I suggested this, it could have happened. As it is, there were several people who told ME they thought it was a good idea, but very few made their wishes public, so I'm afraid that died on the vine...


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## Wits' End (Feb 19, 2002)

A few questions about the turquoise EV. Does the brighter light come from higher efficiency or shorter battery life? How is the turquoise for walking? My white Infinity is good enough for most of my uses (heresy I know), but I would like something brighter for specific uses. Which has more light output the T-EV or the LE/CPF. Am I correct in assuming the LE and the CPF will have the same output? Thanks, I think I'll start a new topic on white vs turquoise.


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## Klaus (Feb 19, 2002)

@Peter,

did your email account made it back to life ?

Thx for answering my original post/email - I emailed to you in return asking you for that special favour regarding your offer of those new LS/O you posted about here.

I would be happy for a short response

Sorry for bugging you

TIA

Klaus


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## TrevorNasko (Feb 19, 2002)

TO ALL-
my angst regarding DEPT. SERVISES was discovered to be unfounded. no doubt he couldnt reach me about my arc order because im online all the time. in my desire to get an arc i forgot that he has feelings too. instead of dealing directly with him i ruined his name and drove off his customers for a while. i acted cowardly, agressively and stupidly. im ashamed of it and hope he and you can forgive me. if any one needs to be hit with the light cannon its me.


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## LEDagent (Feb 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Another good idea. That was part of the curt special as well. He's big on two headed flashlights (he came up with a two header for the Arc-AAA, One was white and the other was red). Its like working with a fellow CPF'er sometimes. Or two of me. 

So anyone else want something like this? 

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YES please...and a bucket-o-fries and a large soda thank you.






But seriously, i think it would be a nice novelty item only. For those that want to save some money, i would opt for the dual battery compartment only. -Or you can develop a new line of ArcLS that will accept a higher unput voltage to take dual CR123 or more that just 2 AA, C, or D sized batteries. 

I'm sure you've got too much to do already, so i'm happy with whatever you dish out.

But i would like to see a belt clip added on somehow too.


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## rigormootis (Feb 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
* -Or you can develop a new line of ArcLS that will accept a higher unput voltage to take dual CR123 or more that just 2 AA, C, or D sized batteries. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1) I WANT a CPF edition ARC!!! 

2) I would also LOVE a (2)CR123 LS!!! This would allow me to use it to burn-up my 'dead' 123s from my surefire M2. 

BTW, I have been trying to read the last 20-some pages that have been added since I have been here (WOW!!!) to see what the status of the AAA long-burn time model (I wanted a RED one...remember?



) 

Also, can anyone tell me where I can find a new-edition (type-III HA) AAA w/ the red LED?


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## The_LED_Museum (Feb 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*So yes, we have burned through the 2.5 battery compartments and we are now shipping completely chemkoted flashlights. But, there are a few mixed breeds out there. Odities that only occure when we make a big revision change.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehehe... I have one of these "halfbreeds" myself. Just came today, courtesy of our friend William at TTS. (thanks William!)

Anyway, there have been a couple of requests to show the new retail packaging. Looks like it's telephony to the rescue yet again.















Sorry about the reflections. I couldn't avoid them under the shooting conditions I have here.


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## Sean (Feb 19, 2002)

You got an ARC AAA LE!?!?














Hurry up an test that sucker!!





I see it comes with a Duracell battery, maybe Peter should include a Rayovac instead since they last longer in the ARC AAA.


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## Darell (Feb 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
Here's the one easy way to spot a 3.0: The threads have a gold tint.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No doubt easy to spot... EXCEPT that they're apparently in blister packs now, so the threads can't be seen without destroying the packaging....


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## BuddTX (Feb 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5BY5:
*Peter if you are going to do a run of the CPF edition can I suggest one per member so that most of us can get one.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter,

No offense, but I don't see anything wrong with letting the CPF members buy more than one. So you sell 2-5 thousand instead of a max of 1200 or so (how many members are there?) It's not like it's a numbered Picaso or something!

Just my two cents.


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## sunspot (Feb 20, 2002)

BuddTX. My 2 cents. Peter mentioned that he found a bag of high rank led's (limited amount) and it was suggested (thanks Darrell) that they be made into CPF edition's. For now, I agree with the one per member so all the active members can have one. If in the future more become available than go for broke.


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## Gransee (Feb 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*No doubt easy to spot... EXCEPT that they're apparently in blister packs now, so the threads can't be seen without destroying the packaging....



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bushman gave me a call asking why his 3.0 only had chemkote threads and not the battery compartment interior as well.

The answer is, revisions don't occur in the whole flashlight all at once. In QC, the part that gets junked the most is the finsihed head rather than the finished battery compartment. As a result, we have more battery compartments in inventory than heads. But when the parts are anodized, they are anodized together as one flashlight. 

So yes, we have burned through the 2.5 battery compartments and we are now shipping completely chemkoted flashlights. But, there are a few mixed breeds out there. Odities that only occure when we make a big revision change.

Hope this clears things up.

Peter Gransee


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## The_LED_Museum (Feb 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*You got an ARC AAA LE!?!?














Hurry up an test that sucker!!




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Patience, my light-craving friend.

I just finished building *The Toylet* for the "Junkyard LED Compo" that is now running on CPF.
Junkyard LED Compo

I also posted five substantial updates to my website in the last 24 hours. New UV LED, new pink LED (which failed 5 hours into testing, necessitating spectral analysis and the posting of another update), updated the Electralume page, and updated the Brinkmann Rebel page after I broke my test sample. There's only *one* of me to do all tasks related to testing and website admin, so I can't do everything at once.

Tomorrow (or later today, depending on how you view things), I'll have at least _six_ updates and/or new items to add to the site.

And the way I understand things, Peter G. has it even worse. He's got money to lose if he falls behind on something, while I do not.


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## Sean (Feb 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*I also posted five substantial updates to my website in the last 24 hours. New UV LED, new pink LED (which failed 5 hours into testing, necessitating spectral analysis and the posting of another update)...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shame on you! You know your not suppose to run an LED for longer than 100,000 hours!


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## Quickbeam (Feb 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You got an ARC AAA LE!?!? 
Hurry up an test that sucker!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A great little light if you can still get one! (but you already knew that!



)
http://thelightsite.tripod.com/reviews/arcaaale.htm


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## Cyclops942 (Feb 20, 2002)

*I got my Arc-LS!!!!!* I've been unable to access the internet from home for four weeks (thanks to my DSL modem dying, followed by the replacement modem dying, followed by yet more help {a third, different type of DSL modem} from my DSL provider), but I'm the proud owner of #118!!!!!

Many thanks to William at TTS for his help with the "mystery" shipment.


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## cave dave (Feb 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*... EXCEPT that they're apparently in blister packs now, so the threads can't be seen without destroying the packaging....



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can the arc blister packs be opened without cutting them. I want to order 4 or 5, test them and keep the best one for myself. then give away the rest as gifts.


Friend: Why is the packaging on this gift all torn up?

Me (pick one):



I just wanted to test it to make sure you got a good one. 



USPS is opening all suspicious looking devices to test for anthrax 



I opened it up so that you wouldn't cut yourself trying to open those @#$%



blister packs.

Does this make me evil, I think not just a flashaholic.


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## Footlight (Feb 21, 2002)

Maybe Peter should supply an extra blister pack with each Arc AAA sold to a CPF member


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## Gransee (Feb 21, 2002)

Actually we just started this week not heat sealing the packages. This is because we received several requests to make them accessible for monogramming, etc. 

We can deliver them either way, it depends on what the dealer/distributor wants.

Peter


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## Terrapin Flyer (Feb 21, 2002)

When CPF's are ready and ordering process is in place, plz start a separate thread. This one is kinda' deep and fairly diverse and I'm sure there are others like myself that would appreciate a definite "heads-up" when these babies are available. Thanks Peter!


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## Andrew (Feb 21, 2002)

[breaking out of lurker mode...]

I just received my ARC LE today which i ordered from TTS last week (it was sent out almost immediately after i ordered...thanks!). It was just like the one which Craig posted a couple days ago; it's in blister packaging (mine was only heat-sealed in one spot...I could have removed the light without breaking that seal). Mine is also a "hybrid", with the gold threads on the head and the uncoated interior in the battery compartment.

Anyway, the light crushes the maglite solitaire in all possible ways (except for cost). The LED in mine seems bluish (same color as the LED in my cheap brinkmann), not the greenish tint that others have reported. 

I have it on my keychain; if it retains its excellent finish after living on there, i will be in complete awe






Thanks ARC/Peter!


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## Darell (Feb 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andrew:
*



The LED in mine seems bluish (same color as the LED in my cheap brinkmann), not the greenish tint that others have reported.

Click to expand...

*


> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
> 
> Andrew -
> 
> ...


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## hawkins1965 (Feb 22, 2002)

I just got my ARC AAA in a blister pack. This is my 4th LED. I gave my Lightwave 200 to my farther when he came to vist from Hong Kong. He was so impressed with it. Now he can show it off to his friends. I also got the Inova x5, expensive and don't really like it much. It's in my car somewhere. Also got the Dorcy Solid State single-led floating flashlight. I like it a lot. And the AAA just has exceeded all my expectations. Awesome finish, very nice grip. My wife got her hands on it and I almost had to fight her to get it back. She says "why don't you get an LE and I'll keep the AAA!" I think I either buy her one or I can't keep this one mine for long. The one I got has the golden finish inside. It is inscrided as Limited Edition though it is just a regular AAA.


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## Footlight (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hawkins1965:
*It is inscrided as Limited Edition though it is just a regular AAA.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I am sure it must be the LE if it is inscribed as such. Am I right in thinking the only difference is the brighter LED and the 'natural' HA finish?

Anyway, my LE is in on it's long (approx 9,500 mile)and arduous journey from Texas (thanks TTS !!) to my little island in the sun. I can hardly wait...if the UPS tracking server is jammed, it's probably me!


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## Andrew (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*
It is the corona that leans toward yellow/green on the LE as compared to the standard white Arc AAA. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Darell, you're right. I now definitely notice the greenish tint around the main spot (it helps to point it on a real white surface).

I'm very impressed by the quality of the light distribution. The LE's light is much more uniform than the Maglite 2-AA that I compared it to, and is much more useful than the very narrow beam of the brinkmann. The LE is even brighter than the maglite, but i suspect the maglite's batteries are dying (after 15 whole minutes of use, no doubt).


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## geepondy (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Footlight:
*



Originally posted by hawkins1965:
[qb]It is inscrided as Limited Edition though it is just a regular AAA.

Click to expand...

*


> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I am sure it must be the LE if it is inscribed as such. Am I right in thinking the only difference is the brighter LED and the 'natural' HA finish?[/QB]



Used to be regular Arc AAA did not have HA but now I believe that one does also. That is a tremendous improvement. In two months in keychain former regular non HA was scratched and worn (although still perfectly functional). In several months now of having HA Arc LE in pocket, case still looks brand new.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 22, 2002)

Hi peter,
I too would be very keen to order one of your "CPF specials". I've been trying to do my background reading on compoundsemi.com and wondered if/when you plan on upgrading your lumileds led?


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## busbar (Feb 22, 2002)

Peter G--

Have you considered extending the LS feature of multiple battery sizes to the LE? I think this 1.5V cell would go over big: http://data.energizer.com/datasheets/library/primary/alkaline/energizer/industrial/en6.pdf


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## txwest (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hawkins1965:
*I also got the Inova x5, expensive and don't really like it much. It's in my car somewhere.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hawk,
I can't believe you don't like the Inova X5. To my knowledge, you're the 1st person I've heard of that didn't like their X5. Mine is on the top of my very long list of favorite lights. TX


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## Gransee (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar_bitrator:
*Hi peter,
I too would be very keen to order one of your "CPF specials". I've been trying to do my background reading on compoundsemi.com and wondered if/when you plan on upgrading your lumileds led?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We use the latest versions of the LED/optics that are commercially available.

Peter


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## Gransee (Feb 22, 2002)

*CPF edition Update*

Ok, we finally got a dark blue finish that I like. This is for the CPF edition.

Here's how they look. In this picture we have the LE and the standard black Arc-AAA in the center for comparision and flanked on either side by the new CPF dark blue.






This is in sunlight for best color rendition but notice how dark the blue is. With anodize we have a choice between bright color or tough finish. You can't have both. We opted for the tough finish, which is type III HA .0015 thickness (same as what is used on the LE and new 3.0 standards). Under some types of light, the color almost looks black.

This also has the new knurl design, which you can almost make out in the picture. The knurling looks the same except to the trained eye. The change made the finish more scratch resistant and a little smoother.

I know some people are probally expecting a lighter blue but the only way to do that is to weaken the finish. It's your call but I would rather make the tougher version.

Peter Gransee


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## Graham (Feb 22, 2002)

Looks good. As you warned us, the HA blue does look very dark. I'm not sure about the others, but I'm happy with the dark colour and good HA, rather than thin HA..

So how do we put our order in? I'll be in for one.

Graham


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## Graham (Feb 22, 2002)

Peter,

Have you done any samples of the AAA in various colours, even with the lesser HA? Any chance you could post some photos? I'd be interested in seeing what different colours are like..

Graham


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## Badbeams3 (Feb 22, 2002)

Great! I`ll take the one on the right, you should have my C/C number on file along with my address. I`m going to head on down to my mailbox and wait.

Thanks,
Ken


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## Spidey82 (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*

Under some types of light, the color almost looks black.

*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


i looks more black than the black aaa on my screen
Linfeng


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## Blades (Feb 22, 2002)

I say tougher finish.
Also will this thread make 500 replies??


Blades


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## Darell (Feb 22, 2002)

I say the dark blue is a winner! Sure wish you'd just plunk the turquoise EV in there... but I digress.

Build them and I will come. You'll have to let me buy two of them though, so Craig can get his. No, really.


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## Darell (Feb 22, 2002)

Diameter alert!

My Kydex sheaths just arrived today, and they are beautiful. The problem is, some of my AAA lights slip right out of them, and others are held so tight that material is removed with each insertion/removal cycle.

So out to the shop I go to measure my various lights with calipers. I have at least four different versions of AAA's. My LE's all fit tight (too tight actually - I have one stuck in there permanently right now), and so do my earlier black ones (non-HA finish). The black HA ones that I have aren't so lucky (these are still pre-3.0). They literally fall out of the sheaths with a very slight shake. So the deal is that my black HA jobbies are 0.1mm smaller in diameter. Doesn't seem like much, but I guess it is enought to prevent my new sheaths from working with them. Could it be the thickness of the anodizing? Were there ever any machining differences in diameter? I wonder how the new knurling will affect the sheath fit?

For those interested:

LE and non-HA black: 12.75-12.78mm dia
Pre-3.0 HA black: 12.65-12.68mm dia
(the variation comes from where the measurement is taken).


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## napalm-2002 (Feb 22, 2002)

i must have one of the ev or cpf version lights 

i simply love the turq color leds 

please start a new thread to let us know when they will be availible!

thanks again Gransee


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## TrevorNasko (Feb 22, 2002)

do i likeit -no 
will i buy it -what do you think


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## Bucky (Feb 22, 2002)

FWIW, I have a very, very early edition Black Arc AAA and mine fits in the Normark kydex sheath.

The blue is not very bright, but better to have a thicker HA that won't scratch than to have a brighter blue. Plus, just think, only 100 or so people will have a blue Arc AAA. If you see anyone else with one, you can be sure they are a CPF member.






Bucky


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## r2 (Feb 22, 2002)

I really like the dark blue. I bought a car with dark purple paint that looks black under a lot of lighting conditions. I really like the effect--sometimes people glance at it and then sort of peer at it when they notice the color isn't what they thought at first glance. The dark blue finish on the CPF light looks light it might give a similar effect. I suppose bright lights aren't really about subtlety, but a little doesn't hurt.

- Russ


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## One001 (Feb 22, 2002)

The blue appears a little dark, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice hardness for a lighter color, therefore, let hardness take priority. Peter, to satisfy Darell and others, like me, how about a companion CPF edition in dark green HA with Turquoise EV? And maybe even a special price (or free CPF # engraving) for buying the matched set.



I would buy a pair. Anyone else?


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## Sean (Feb 22, 2002)

I lightened the photo a bit because I was having a hard time seeing the blue. Take a look at here: CPF ARC AAA
It may be overkill (my photo adjustment) but I can clearly see the blue.

Peter, you get my vote! I like it.


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## hawkins1965 (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
*Used to be regular Arc AAA did not have HA but now I believe that one does also. That is a tremendous improvement. In two months in keychain former regular non HA was scratched and worn (although still perfectly functional). In several months now of having HA Arc LE in pocket, case still looks brand new.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guys, I'm telling you. I ordered & paid the regular AAA price. The package says "White LED - Nat Finish AW-MAT Arc-AAA".
You are right. It is HA and has a slightly smaller LED then usual. It looks just like the second ARC from the left in picture Peter posted yesterday which It's either in the wrong package or the dealer sent me an upgrade. 




This baby is on my keychain now. My wife saw it when I was driving and she took it. I offered her my Inova X5 that I leave in the car in exchange. She wouldn't take it.
BTW. How do I protect the polished reflector? Unfinished aluminum does tarnish. I just coated it with some light oil. Does it help?


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## Alaric Darconville (Feb 22, 2002)

It may well make it to 500 replies... hard to keep up with this thread...

I prefer ultra durable to ultra brightly colored. 

I kinda like the idea of the "matched set" proposed by One001...

I have to say, those are some nice looking lights. They kindof remind me of the Interplay game, "Fallout", with their no-nonsense military look and clean lines. Looks like it can dish it out, and then dish back whatever someone tries to make it take.


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## Darell (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*I lightened the photo a bit because I was having a hard time seeing the blue. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good color correction Sean. I did the same thing, but wasn't bright enough to post the result. You did a good job of bringing the "natural" LE to near life-like coloring, so the blue must be more realistic in your modified shot as well. Now I like it even MORE.


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## The_LED_Museum (Feb 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*
i looks more black than the black aaa on my screen
Linfeng*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It looks almost black on my screen too. I had to mutilate & wring the gooseneck on my desk lamp to aim the bulb into a dark corner before I could see the blue color on my screen.


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## Gransee (Feb 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*Peter,

Have you done any samples of the AAA in various colours, even with the lesser HA? Any chance you could post some photos? I'd be interested in seeing what different colours are like..

Graham*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Oh yes, I was showing them at the SHOT show. I found they scratch too easy so I wasn't in a hury to post pictures of them.

We have three shades of blue and one shade each of green, purple and red.

Peter


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## rigormootis (Feb 23, 2002)

Sign me up for one of the CPF AAA lights....do they only come in one LED color??? If yes, is it turquoise? Either way, I want one!


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 23, 2002)

Hi Peter...

I like the dark blue. If I`m one of the lucky ones to be able to buy one of the CPF lights, it will become part of my EDC. For EDC, a tough HA finish is definitely more important than a less durable but brighter colored finish.

Now that we`ve actually seen the prototype, we`re all cranked up and excited to buy the CPF flashlight. Please... put us out of our misery and let us know how and when we can place our order for one!

And thanks again for your willingness to do this limited-run edition.


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## Darell (Feb 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rigormootis:
*Sign me up for one of the CPF AAA lights....do they only come in one LED color??? If yes, is it turquoise? Either way, I want one!



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See Peter? All the turquoise fans are coming out of the woodwork _now_.


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## hotfoot (Feb 23, 2002)

Mr Gransee,

Please note my CPF number too (1218), I want a CPF AAA too! Actually, turquoise would be a great color for a collector's item, IMHO. White LEDs are pretty darn common, but a dark blue CPF edition with turquoise? Wow, *really* special. Ahhh, membership has its priveleges...


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## Gandalf (Feb 23, 2002)

Pardon my ignorance; I haven't been keeping up on this thread. After reading 5 or 6 pages, I didn't see if the color of the LED in the CPF-AAA had been decided. I like turquiose (the brightest light/color,I believe) but preferably in a narrower angle than the 2nd gen. Arc-AAA I have. Ifthe color of the LED has been pretty much set, what is it going to be? Thanks


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## Badbeams3 (Feb 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by One001:
*The blue appears a little dark, but I wouldn't want to sacrifice hardness for a lighter color, therefore, let hardness take priority. Peter, to satisfy Darell and others, like me, how about a companion CPF edition in dark green HA with Turquoise EV? And maybe even a special price (or free CPF # engraving) for buying the matched set.



I would buy a pair. Anyone else?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like this idea...it`s a winner!


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## Steelhead (Feb 23, 2002)

Hi, I'm new to the ARC world but already I love the products. I do however have a few questions.

1.) What is the significance of the chemkote interior on the new 3.0 versions? Is it simply aesthetic?

2.) How does the brightnes of the ev turquoise compare to either the LE white or equally as important the standard AAA turquoise?

3.) The finish HA3 and especially the color of the LE is exquisite. Could the standard AAA be produced in this color in the future especially since the finish on both le and aaa is now HA anyway. A color choice of black or natural would be welcome although of course I cannot speak for everyone. The LE would be distinguished from the aaa natural HA both by it's SB1 bulb and of course the LE engraving on the case itself. Anyone out there agree with my suggestion/opinion.

4.) Finally, what is on the horizon as far as led bulbs. Are there any brighter than SB1 rank currently or soon to come? Hope they can be incorporated in future arc models.

Thanks peter and the rest of this excellent forum for any insights.

Keep up the wonderful R&D. Your products are impressive and seem to become more so each day.


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## supertrucker (Feb 23, 2002)

Peter, OK after seeing the CPF version I have to sit on my hands to keep from clapping



! I vote for a white led for the blue one (although a blue LED would make sense) a green colored case and LED would be cool as previously suggested. I would go along with that two pac ( blue/green ) idea.
Basically I will buy anything with the ARC name!


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## Mercator (Feb 23, 2002)

*Peter *

Did I miss reading this or is it yet to be posted....

How and when do we CPF members place an order for the CPF ARC AAA ???

-Mercator-


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## bucken (Feb 23, 2002)

I like the double-pack idea too, but if it's a single, I'd still vote for the turquoise LED.



Just my .01.


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## bluegreen (Feb 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by One001:
*... how about a companion CPF edition in dark green HA with Turquoise EV? And maybe even a special price (or free CPF # engraving) for buying the matched set.



I would buy a pair. Anyone else?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second that. I mentioned an EV turquoise and green HA a good few pages back but the set is an even better idea. A blue/green combo has a certain ring to it



In a special Maglite style box? If we drum up enough support Mr G might go for it (or we offer him lots of money).

I think at the moment, however, he is busy getting the normal AAAs and LSs out of the door. Still, now is the moment to ask...


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## Sleepycat (Feb 23, 2002)

An idea to help resolve Arc-AAA colours and tail design issues-

if there are any Web-heads out there- would putting together an open voting page, where members can vote-with-a-click for their favourite colour or design help ?
Then we can discuss the 'Arc Charts'  
-just think of the potential advertising revenue, zillions of people, all shaping the future ;-)


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## Tesla (Feb 23, 2002)

Well....don't stone me, but I think I'm the Lone Ranger here. Calling that "blue" is REALLY a stretch. I'd much prefer the standard black or normal HA finish or even silver...but what would be more appropriate IMHO would be a "functional" improvement like a clip/lanyard/holster, etc.


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## Darell (Feb 23, 2002)

Wow! Can't wait to see what Peter has to say about all these going-ons.

I REALLY don't think the turquoise EV has a chance anymore (since those have already been put in 3.0 cases are being shipped soon), so we really don't need to bark up that tree anymore. I just wish there had been more support (not Empath, you unerstand



) for the brightest turquoise earlier... Oh well. Water under the bridge, that ship has sailed, etc.

I'm pretty sure these CPF units will be white since Peter found the stash of 100 SB1 units.

And I wanted to mention here, again, that the SB1 is NOT brighter than the white in the standard AAA. It is just a slightly different tint. Most people like the tint better, and it is more rare, certainly. But to the best of my knowledge, SB1 is not brighter than SB2. I keep hearing folks talk about the LE as being "brighter" when it really is not. Since my idea of a CPF edition with the _brightest_ available turquoise LED got no votes early on, it looks like we'll be getting the white LED that is already found in the LE, and is the same brightness as the standard white. In other words, the CPF unit will now only be unique in color and inscription.

Yes, I am crying a little tear over here. Sniff.

It'll be a great light. I but already have tons of great Arc lights. I really was hoping for something great AND truly unique. But like most of you - I'll take what I can get.


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## Empath (Feb 24, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*See Peter? All the turquoise fans are coming out of the woodwork now.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh Oh! I guess I have to come forward to put my vote in for white.


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## Chris M. (Feb 24, 2002)

_if there are any Web-heads out there- would putting together an open voting page, where members can vote-with-a-click for their favourite colour or design help ?
_

I already did! To choose the colour of the light`s body. It got just over a hundred votes, and has since been promptly ignored





I think the dark blue idea came along before I set that poll up, and since blue seemed the most popular anyway, that`s the one that stayed.


I do think it`s a little _too_ dark, but of course if it means it`s going to be really hard wearing and not end up worn smooth after a few months of regular carrying, then that`s a good thing, right? and of course, not everyone`s screens will render the colour correctly, so in reality it`s probably going to be more notieably blue.


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## Glow Bug (Feb 24, 2002)

They are HoTTT! Peter I want one...Please

http://community.webshots.com/photo/30894406/31913447ymKEiprssl


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## rigormootis (Feb 24, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*See Peter? All the turquoise fans are coming out of the woodwork now.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


actually, I'd rather it not be turquoise. White, green, or red would have been my preference. But, I will buy one b/c my wife likes the case color.


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## flashfan (Feb 24, 2002)

I have to "Empath"ize



with member #867, and cast my vote for white LED.


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## protodoc (Feb 24, 2002)

White, white, white.

Can't deal with the thought of standing in my closet with a flashlight and not be able to tell what color shirt I am pulling out.

protodoc


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## Sean (Feb 24, 2002)

The CPF LE should definately be white!





The blue HA body color looks good too.


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## Darell (Feb 24, 2002)

Yeah... who's that idiot that keeps harping about turquoise anyway? Who invited him?

Seeing as how the CPF edition is going to have a white SB1, I've decided that's what I want too!

Don't you guys worry about me (seems to be no risk of that



) I've got a lock on the EV's.


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## Graham (Feb 24, 2002)

Well, if I could get two of them, I'd definitely want one of the special Turquoise ones..but if I have to choose, I agree that white is better.

Graham


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## Badbeams3 (Feb 25, 2002)

Turquoise only...baad...turquoise and white...goood...verry goood. 

Repeat ten times if confusion is still present.


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## Bushman (Feb 25, 2002)

agree white good
turq nice but not as practical (see shirt puller guy post)


QUESTION

what is the possiblility of crushing the circut in the arc aaa by twisting down too tight, or will u be more likely to collapse the battery terminal first?

thanks.


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## Gransee (Feb 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steelhead:
*Hi, I'm new to the ARC world but already I love the products. I do however have a few questions.

1.) What is the significance of the chemkote interior on the new 3.0 versions? Is it simply aesthetic?

2.) How does the brightnes of the ev turquoise compare to either the LE white or equally as important the standard AAA turquoise?

3.) The finish HA3 and especially the color of the LE is exquisite. Could the standard AAA be produced in this color in the future especially since the finish on both le and aaa is now HA anyway. A color choice of black or natural would be welcome although of course I cannot speak for everyone. The LE would be distinguished from the aaa natural HA both by it's SB1 bulb and of course the LE engraving on the case itself. Anyone out there agree with my suggestion/opinion.

4.) Finally, what is on the horizon as far as led bulbs. Are there any brighter than SB1 rank currently or soon to come? Hope they can be incorporated in future arc models.

Thanks peter and the rest of this excellent forum for any insights.

Keep up the wonderful R&D. Your products are impressive and seem to become more so each day.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome Steelhead!

1. Chemkote (clear alodine, chemfilm, etc) is a treatment added to improve corrosion resistance and conductivity. The gold tint may be nice, but it is a side effect of the process.

2. The EV rank Turquiose produces more output than any other Arc-AAA color or rank. I visually compared the EV with the normal turquiose rank informally in a well lit QC area and they seemed almost the same to me. The numbers say though that the EV is about 1cd or more brighter than the normal turquiose we use. 

3. Oh I agree, the natural finish is quite nice. We could offer the color as an option for the standard Arc-AAA in white only (maybe turquiose for Darrel). Several things that kept that from happening: a) been busy b)like to keep our product line simple c)concerned that people might confuse it with the LE. I think if we give it a month, we could start offering the Natural finish as a standard option.

4) Haven't heard anything new from Nichia nor any rumors from other sources. There is some new products from Lumileds, etc but the trend seems to be to produce larger LEDs rather than beef up the standard 5mm size. The only way to utilize these new larger LEDs would be to enlarge the size of the Arc-AAA, which I think would hurt the product. Not all is lost though, as you know we are using the best of the new larger LEDs in our other products.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mercator:
*Peter 

Did I miss reading this or is it yet to be posted....

How and when do we CPF members place an order for the CPF ARC AAA ???

-Mercator-*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It will be soon and I will start a new Arc thread when that happens. I put the order in for the 100 blue HAs today. Still shooting for the first of March on these shipping.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bushman:
*agree white good
turq nice but not as practical (see shirt puller guy post)


QUESTION

what is the possiblility of crushing the circut in the arc aaa by twisting down too tight, or will u be more likely to collapse the battery terminal first?

thanks.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bushman, every battery brand I have seen crushes long before the board undergoes any appreciable stress. We overdesigned the durability of the board. 

Peter Gransee


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## The_LED_Museum (Feb 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*to But to the best of my knowledge, SB1 is not brighter than SB2. I keep hearing folks talk about the LE as being "brighter" when it really is not. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>





I don't know about yours, but my LE is substantially brighter than my original Arc-AAA.


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## geepondy (Feb 25, 2002)

My LE(s) are brighter as well. I've had quite a few regular AAA's and LE's now to do comparisons. As I've stated before, there is an inconsistency between the brightness and tint levels amongst the different regular AAA's. The better one's approach or equal the LE in brightness and more whiter tint. Other's are noticably (but not by a great margin) dimmer and have a more bluish tint. The half dozen or so LE's that I've had were all to the naked eye, very close to each other in terms of brightness and tint. The output of my last regular AAA received recently from Peter as a warranty replacement, had a very similar output to the LE but it's a crap shoot for each one.


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## Bushman (Feb 25, 2002)

i think that my le is at least as bright as my photon 2... i don't have another aaa to compare with (yet)


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## Darell (Feb 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by telephony:
*




I don't know about yours, but my LE is substantially brighter than my original Arc-AAA.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Craig -

I have quite a collection of different AAA's. Some of my standards seem to be the same brightness as my LEs, some are not. Is the standard that you show in the beam shot an SB2-equipped unit? I don't think they always were made with the SB LEDs. Some of my earlier units are the dimmer ones.

I may very well be way off base here, but I thought that the S ranking means that they are the same brightness, but that the B1 and B2 refer to a different tint. I agree that the SB1 LE looks "whiter" (the "B1" being greener than the "B2") but that doesn't necessarily mean brighter, does it? It is like the age-old question: Is the turquoise LED brighter than the white? Depends on who you are and how you perceive colors.

Am I way off here? Every time I think I understand this stuff, it seems to slip back out of my grasp. I certainly don't mean to be spouting bad info...


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## One001 (Feb 25, 2002)

Peter, Can you describe the tinting of the Turquoise EV or post some comparative beam shots? Are we looking at a blue tint or a green tint? Will these be ready for order the same time you open up the ordering for the CPF edition?


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## Klaus (Feb 25, 2002)

On that whiter / brighter difference between LE and AAA Peter made it clear that right now they use SB2 for the standard and used SB1 for the LEs - where both are the brighter "S" types and the B1 is greener and B2 more blue. Peter also mentioned that ARC used some small number of SB1s in normal production to satisfy demand. Also befor he got the "S" types he used the "R" ones in the normal units and might do so in the future. 

I personally would like Peter to continue using S types and possibly T types in the future.

I hope I posted no nosense but this issue was discussed earlier in the thread and Peter answered it I guess X times already.

Klaus


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## Spidey82 (Feb 25, 2002)

just receive my arc aaa. the light is good. i left it on and it is still glowing in the morining (the batt was dead when i put it in)measure it, 0.375v

now some question for u *peter*,
-is the led use in the v.3 wide or narrow beam?
-how come my v.3 doesn't have a 'gold' coating (chemkote) on neither head or body?
-is the reflecter finish durable? is it some coating or highly polish aluminium?
-will the keychain and normally keys scrach the coating? (i know its HA3 but my E2 HA3 wasn't 'that' fanstastic) so is the HA3 on arc same hardness as SF?

thats for the question,
now my vote is white for CPF edition arc.
reason---- white is more for serious user who uses their arc for serious task, if i use my arc simpily for playing den,turquoise might be a better choice. i am *serious*






but one thing i would like to have in the CPF arc is XR function. Peter u working on this??




Linfeng


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## Darell (Feb 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
* white is more for serious user who uses their arc for serious task*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh. A _serious_ Arc user already has ten or twelve white Arc's banging around the house...


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## Darell (Feb 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*they use SB2 for the standard and used SB1 for the LEs - where both are the brighter "S" types and the B1 is greener and B2 more blue.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, for those of you keeping score at home: I'm right in theory and (judging by his picture) Craig is right in practice. My guess, as before, is that Craig's got an older R rank LED in his standard AAA.

Everybody have their score cards marked? Everybody on the same page again? Excellent. OK, back to your regularly scheduled thread...


----------



## sylvestor (Feb 25, 2002)

Hi Peter,

Any updates on when the Arc-LS cyans will be ready ?

thanks,

sylvestor.


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## cave dave (Feb 25, 2002)

Peter,
Do the EV turquiose and the regular Turquoise have similar beam patterns and angles? Or is the EV brighter because it has a narrower beam? 

How about rings and dark spots in the beam? Its great that the EV is brighter and all but I think its equaly important that it has a nice beam pattern, and I'm rather partial to the wide beam of the current model.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 25, 2002)

I ordered 3 Arcs from Texas Tactical Supply recently, those guys are great. Ship very fast and good prices. Highly recommended.

The new LE i got has a off-center beam and looks almost the same brightness as my old AAA, the beam has double rings in them too. Not very impressive this LE.


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## r2 (Feb 25, 2002)

I think this might have been answered already but I lost track: are the standard 3.0 whites currently in production built with SB2 whites?

I know many of the older lights were made with the class R brightness and then Peter got his hands on brighter whites which he used in the standard arc aaa. Was that just a temporary thing or are the recent 3.0 models being made with the brighter (albeit more blue tinted) whites?

I actually kind of like the blue tint to white LEDs. It's like the antidote to the tint mode incandescents give. I'm waiting on the CPF edition, but if I can get the same brightness from a standard model I may just go with that since numbers will be limited and someone who prefers the other tint would appreciate it more.

- Russ


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## Gransee (Feb 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by One001:
*Peter, Can you describe the tinting of the Turquoise EV or post some comparative beam shots? Are we looking at a blue tint or a green tint? Will these be ready for order the same time you open up the ordering for the CPF edition?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is the "E" tint rank, which is the same tint rank as what we had in the previous batch. The ranks are D, E and F for turquoise. D is towards the blue end and F is towards the green end so you can see the E is right in the middle of the blue-green range.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spidey82:
*just receive my arc aaa. the light is good. i left it on and it is still glowing in the morining (the batt was dead when i put it in)measure it, 0.375v

now some question for u peter,
-is the led use in the v.3 wide or narrow beam?
-how come my v.3 doesn't have a 'gold' coating (chemkote) on neither head or body?
-is the reflecter finish durable? is it some coating or highly polish aluminium?
-will the keychain and normally keys scrach the coating? (i know its HA3 but my E2 HA3 wasn't 'that' fanstastic) so is the HA3 on arc same hardness as SF?

thats for the question,
now my vote is white for CPF edition arc.
reason---- white is more for serious user who uses their arc for serious task, if i use my arc simpily for playing den,turquoise might be a better choice. i am serious





but one thing i would like to have in the CPF arc is XR function. Peter u working on this??




Linfeng



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me try to answer all these.

- The version number always refers to the improvements made to the parts of the flashlight other than the LED. We also upgraded the LED for some of the colors about the same time we upgraded the rest of the flashlight to v3. The same upgrade eventually appears in all the models and variations of that particular size.

Some of the LED colors offered are wide angle and some are narrow. Our website provides this information as well. For example the turquoise is 30 degrees. This is for all turquoise Arc-AAA models.

- If your threads do not have a gold tint, then you probably have a version 2.5 which was the first version made available in blister pack and includes the type III HA finish.

- The reflector is machined polished to about a RMS 16 if I remember the numbers. This is T6 aluminum and is fairly durable to real world abrasions. Feel free to ask anyone here who has had an Arc-AAA for a long time.

- Your right about HA not being impervious to everything. It can be scratched. The point of HA it is one of the most scratch resistant finishes available. The biggest weakness of any anodize finish in my opinion is the points on the knurl. The metal actually breaks off and take the HA with it. Our knurl was already fairly durable with this test, but version 3.0 added a slightly improved knurl design.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sylvestor:
*Hi Peter,

Any updates on when the Arc-LS cyans will be ready ?

thanks,

sylvestor.






*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We will be producing them at the same time we produce this next run. It looks like the next run, which is in production right now, will be done the 2-3 week of March. These units are to fulfill back orders only. We will begin accepting new orders in very limited numbers in April (if all goes well).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
*Peter,
Do the EV turquiose and the regular Turquoise have similar beam patterns and angles? Or is the EV brighter because it has a narrower beam? 

How about rings and dark spots in the beam? Its great that the EV is brighter and all but I think its equally important that it has a nice beam pattern, and I'm rather partial to the wide beam of the current model.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The EV and EU (regular rank) turquoise have identical beams and tints. Only the brightness is different. The EU is rated by the old system ad 3.4cd (3400mcd) and the EV is rated at 4.8cd. Both are at a 30-degree beam angle.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Russ Ross:
*I think this might have been answered already but I lost track: are the standard 3.0 whites currently in production built with SB2 whites?

I know many of the older lights were made with the class R brightness and then Peter got his hands on brighter whites which he used in the standard arc aaa. Was that just a temporary thing or are the recent 3.0 models being made with the brighter (albeit more blue tinted) whites?

I actually kind of like the blue tint to white LEDs. It's like the antidote to the tint mode incandescent give. I'm waiting on the CPF edition, but if I can get the same brightness from a standard model I may just go with that since numbers will be limited and someone who prefers the other tint would appreciate it more.

- Russ*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, we have been using the B2S white in the standard Arc-AAA since last year. Before we used B2R since that was all that was available from Nichia.

So the tint of our standard white has really not changed much (except for a few small "weird" runs). But they have gotten brighter over time.

We started using the brighter S ranks in the standard whites about a month after the LE came out. So at least at first, the LEs where brighter. Now, their claim to fame is their unique tint, case marking, and case finish. Of course, we stopped making them for awhile because the B1S rank is fairly rare and hard to get.

Sorry if this is all confusing. I really don't want our offerings to be complex so please forgive me. 

Btw, production on the 100 dark blue CPF models was started today.

Peter Gransee


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## Steelhead (Feb 26, 2002)

Just wanted to thank you peter for your quick and thorough response.

I think offering the standard aaa in the natural anodize in the near future is an excellent idea. I'm sure your customers will appreciate the choice.

Keep up the great work. I'm spreading the news myself and everyone is left awestruck by the quality and craftsmanship of your little lights. I'm sure sales are destined to surpass that of maglite especially if they don't get with the program and enter the world of led.

Thanks again!!!!


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## Darell (Feb 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Sorry if this is all confusing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

Actually, this is the first time that I _haven't_ been confused in a while. Thanks for clearing everything up. It is as I thought, but its good to hear it straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*
Btw, production on the 100 dark blue CPF models was started today.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yay!


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## BuddTX (Feb 26, 2002)

Peter,

Forgive me if this question has asked and answered already.

What is the difference between the CPF edition and the LE edition?

All I want is the "brighest, white-est" keychain light I can get!

Thanks,


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## Flashlightboy (Feb 26, 2002)

Just got my Arc AAA-LE today from Brightguy.

This is my first Arc and it is a high zoot piece of equipment. Now I can see what everyone is exited about!!! My secretary also bought one and she loves hers too.

Mine is v3.0 with Chemkote on the head and body. Very nice. Where do I sign up for the CPF edition?

On a side note and more for curiosity than anything else, does Arc have a private label program and if so, what are the requirements/limitations?


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## Klaus (Feb 26, 2002)

Jeff - post to Peter Gransee, president of ARC, directly on that - I guess its all a question of numbers.

Klaus


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## Darell (Feb 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:
*
1) Are the EV Turqs. available and where?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike -

Nope, but they should be available next week at TTS, according to William.


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## One001 (Feb 26, 2002)

Peter, you posted some pics of the Cyan LS beam back in December. Is the color of the Turquoise EV close to this or is it much greener? Please descibe. Also, how much brighter is 1 cd in practical terms anyway?


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## cave dave (Feb 26, 2002)

I really think everbody should be required to read at least two pages back before they ask questions:
But i'll field this for peter anyhow.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*...
The EV rank Turquiose produces more output than any other Arc-AAA color or rank. I visually compared the EV with the normal turquiose rank informally in a well lit QC area and they seemed almost the same to me. The numbers say though that the EV is about 1cd or more brighter than the normal turquiose we use. 
... 

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## Terrapin Flyer (Feb 26, 2002)

That was kinda' my point in my earlier post, but now with 34 pages and nearly 500 posts and various topics going on and various repeat posts and clarifications posts here & there, which 2 pages back should I go review? I'm not being a smartass, really I'm not, I'm just hoping for some addl. organization to the Arc thread - like perhaps an "area". I think it would be helpful to all of us.


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## Darell (Feb 26, 2002)

Well, a while back somebody asked if this thread could possibly hit 500 posts. I think the question was asked a week ago (or less). I'm here to confirm that YES, this thread may just hit 500 posts if we aren't really careful.


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## One001 (Feb 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*I'm here to confirm that YES, this thread may just hit 500 posts if we aren't really careful.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow Darell, you are quick! You must have been watching that post counter like a hawk to get in at exactly 500. Congratulations!


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## Terrapin Flyer (Feb 26, 2002)

Darrell has high friends in low places, or at least with lower numbers







! 
BTW Darrell, the shipping address for my EV Turq. to follow via email <kidding>.


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## Darell (Feb 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by One001:
*



You must have been watching that post counter like a hawk to get in at exactly 500.

Click to expand...

*


> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
> 
> Usually I have better things to do with my time (
> 
> ...


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## Gransee (Feb 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Usually I have better things to do with my time (



), but Mr. M. Jack Straw told me that Peter was offering some sort of prize for being the 500th post. It was either a turquoise EV, a CPF edition or an LS. Can't remember the details.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

(In Dr. Evil's voice from Austin Powers)

"Rrright"


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## Gransee (Feb 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuddTX:
*Peter,

Forgive me if this question has asked and answered already.

What is the difference between the CPF edition and the LE edition?

All I want is the "brighest, white-est" keychain light I can get!

Thanks,*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The difference is the finish color and the inscription. The other details are the same, including the LED (an important feature).

As far as brightest and most white of all the Arc-AAA line, the CPF and LE editions are the ticket.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:
*2 hopefully easy-to-answer questions:

1) Are the EV Turqs. available and where?
2) Will a CPF ordering thread be started?

To be honest, I try to keep up with this thread, but as stated, it has gotten deep & diverse and in some ways unwieldy. That's most evident by folks going away for a bit and asking for updates. Too bad some topic specific threads can't be started (LS, LE, AAA, CPF), but I do understand that one thread makes it easier for Peter to keep us updated (and spend more time working on our fav lights), which we all like



.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the EV's can be ordered from our website and TTS now. We have been shipping them since yesterday. These are ordered from the same Order Page as the standard Turquoise. You must specify you want EV in the comments field of your order.

I will be starting a new thread in a day or two with a link to the CPF ordering page following shortly after. The CPF editions finished plating today and are back at the machine shop have the LED mount cut. Next they go to final assembly and QC.

For people just joining us, please understand that the EV and CPF are two different versions of the Arc-AAA. The EV is a brighter rank of Turquoise LED and the CPF is a special white LED edition in a blue housing for CPF members only. If you can post here, you are a CPF member.

What do you suggest would help organize the Arc related discussions? Should we ask for our own forum header on the CPF? Not sure if could/should be done, just an idea at this point.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff:
*Just got my Arc AAA-LE today from Brightguy.

This is my first Arc and it is a high zoot piece of equipment. Now I can see what everyone is exited about!!! My secretary also bought one and she loves hers too.

Mine is v3.0 with Chemkote on the head and body. Very nice. Where do I sign up for the CPF edition?

On a side note and more for curiosity than anything else, does Arc have a private label program and if so, what are the requirements/limitations?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have quoted private label jobs before. There are several ways to do it. The most straightforward method is to pick a case color, LED color(s) and inscription. Then we provide a quote and you can go from there. We do require a minimum of 100 units per type to make it worth while for us. There is a premium if the any major changes are made to the flashlight.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by One001:
*Peter, you posted some pics of the Cyan LS beam back in December. Is the color of the Turquoise EV close to this or is it much greener? Please descibe. Also, how much brighter is 1 cd in practical terms anyway?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will try to get this posted for you. I would say that the Arc-AAA turquiose is more green than the Cyan LS. 1cd (1000mcd) should be noticable. Look at the 1cd difference between the old R rank Arc-AAA whites and the S rank LE's.

Peter Gransee


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## Terrapin Flyer (Feb 27, 2002)

2 hopefully easy-to-answer questions:

1) Are the EV Turqs. available and where?
2) Will a CPF ordering thread be started?

To be honest, I try to keep up with this thread, but as stated, it has gotten deep & diverse and in some ways unwieldy. That's most evident by folks going away for a bit and asking for updates. Too bad some topic specific threads can't be started (LS, LE, AAA, CPF), but I do understand that one thread makes it easier for Peter to keep us updated (and spend more time working on our fav lights), which we all like



.


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 27, 2002)

Hi Peter...

I vote for trying to get a separate forum leader on the CPF for Arc-related discussions. It`s certainly been proven that there is a high interest in and many, many postings about your ventures and the Arc products.

Keep up the good work.


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## Flagone (Feb 27, 2002)

Hi Peter

I read before that some new version 3.0 Arc AAAs were shipping with Chemkote on the head only until the spare barrels were used up.

Have the 100% Chemkote models now made it fully into the distribution network?


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## Terrapin Flyer (Feb 27, 2002)

Yes, I'd like to see a separate forum header with threads concerning LS, LE, CPF, AAA, etc. That of course is up to admin, but it sure would make for easier disussions and might even reduce server & bandwidth usage.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flagone:
*Hi Peter

I read before that some new version 3.0 Arc AAAs were shipping with Chemkote on the head only until the spare barrels were used up.

Have the 100% Chemkote models now made it fully into the distribution network?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can answer this one, yes they are out, I know because I have one in my pocket. I got it in the mail 2 weeks ago. Fully chemkoted version 3.0. Its an LE at that.


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## Steelhead (Feb 27, 2002)

Hi, again Peter

I have a question about MCDs, Beam Angles,and Bulb Colors. I am a bit confused as to how these 3 combine to affect perceived brightness.

I have been to the arc website and have noted the various led outputs and corresponding beam angles. I will list most here for reference.

Eg. Turquoise AAA: 4800mcd 30deg. beam angle
White AAA: 6400mcd 20deg.
Blue AAA: 3200mcd 30deg.
Green AAA: 3400mcd 30deg.
Red AAA: 8500mcd 24deg.
Orange AAA: 10000mcd 15deg.
Yellow AAA: 8000mcd 15deg.

1.) I am under the impression that the greater the beam angle the more diffused the light resulting in a dimmer perceived brightness(how it looks to the eye)while holding bulb color(wavelength)and power supply constant. Is this accurate?

2.) I was wondering what the beam angle is on both the turquoise EV and on the ARC LE as these are not stated on the website. 

3.) If, as I'm guessing, the bulb angles are 30deg. for the EV and 20deg. for the LE. How then do the two lights compare in perceived brightness(to the eye).
IE. Although you mentioned earlier that the turquoise ev had the most output of any of the ARC AAA lights. Is its perceived brightness reduced because of its wider beam angle actually making the LE with its smaller beam angle brighteer to the eye, all be it a white bulb. 

4.)I guess bottom line, of all currently produced ARC AAAs, including EV bulb and LE which light/color/beam angle combo is the brightest to the eye. (Although this may be considered subjective I'll take your eyes word for it so to speak.

Thanks Peter, I hope this helps a lot of others out there as well. 
I'm sure it will help my confused ---.


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## John N (Feb 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:
*Yes, I'd like to see a separate forum header with threads concerning LS, LE, CPF, AAA, etc. That of course is up to admin, but it sure would make for easier disussions and might even reduce server & bandwidth usage.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably doesn't need a forum, just start threads on each of the topics.

You might not even need different threads for the AAA vs. LE, perhaps just AAA/LE, CPF, LS, and Misc. or something?

-john


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## DavidW (Feb 27, 2002)

*For the time being, only Gransee can start threads. But any registered member can reply. If he wants that changed I will do so.*


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## OrBy (Feb 27, 2002)

Well I just got one of the newer arc aaa uv's with the new style led's in em...
WOW is what i gotta say!
That new 12mw led kicks A$$ - very bright.
The head was chemkoted the body inside was not. That stuff really does make the turning on and off of the light more fluid. I do like improved ha+ the new grip is less "nail file" like and is more plesant to use.

Peter: are you using newer 0-rings as well on these 3.0's? They seem a bit better finished as well. (no little rubber cuttings hanging off)

Keep up the good work!

(edit - wanted to add some pic's)









Happy Arc owner.


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## vcal (Feb 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OrBy:
*Well I just got one of the newer arc aaa uv's with the new style led's in em...
WOW is what i gotta say!
That new 12mw led kicks A$$ - very bright.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A little off topic, but that little 12mw. UV light will drive those GID pigments absolutely _crazy_


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## Terrapin Flyer (Feb 27, 2002)

DavidW - Thank you for listening, it is most appeciated.


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:
*DavidW - Thank you for listening, it is most appeciated.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto.


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## supertrucker (Feb 27, 2002)

Mr.Gransee, it would be "super swell" if you 
could post the "CPF edition" order link right about...NOW! It's just that I can only get online at home at night. Maybe I could sweeten the deal a little with some Baked goods courtesy of "Superwife"? 
How did you put it earlier?..."Rrright"


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## OrBy (Feb 27, 2002)

vcal - You know it





Hey on that topic some one posted before about about adding thoes GID pigments to the filler used in the arc aaa heads - so it kinda turned into a always on light. What ever happened to this idea?


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## Darell (Feb 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OrBy:
*adding thoes GID pigments to the filler used in the arc aaa heads - so it kinda turned into a always on light. What ever happened to this idea?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The idea is still alive and well - in my head. I'm planning on doing it just as soon as I get off my lazy a$$ and order some powder. I'm not sure what you mean about the "filler used in the ... heads." I'm planning on just painting the reflector with the stuff. Should actually improve the beam on my black Infinity as well (since so far I've left its reflector black).


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 28, 2002)

OrBy is right on, the newer UV light is considerably brighter than the older gen. UV.

It can put out enough light to actually see around the house in the dark, even though it's not made for that purpose!!!!





Today, I'll be reloading software and all the fun that goes with having to do a clean sweep of the hard drive thanks to some *&^%$^&%[email protected]$$#@#[email protected]$# who managed to infect my "Norton Protected" computer with a nasty virus! SO IF I DON'T POST FOR A WHILE, I'll BE EXCUSED.

Shine on.....

Steve


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## Harrkev (Feb 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OrBy:
*vcal - You know it






Hey on that topic some one posted before about about adding thoes GID pigments to the filler used in the arc aaa heads - so it kinda turned into a always on light. What ever happened to this idea?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


After I first posted, nobody really responded. If we bug Peter enough, maybe he will look into it.


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## Darell (Feb 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harrkev:
*
After I first posted, nobody really responded. If we bug Peter enough, maybe he will look into it.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I must have missed it - what "filler" are you talking about? Nothing but the reflector really gets any light shed on it, does it (for the self-charging aspect)?


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## Klaus (Feb 28, 2002)

@Peter

my reply to your last email sent to the @gransee domain bounced back again telling me: Unable to relay for [email protected] [xyz being your adress there) - so you might check that again - BTW - MSN s**cks.

My email just was - ANYTIME ! Klaus

Thanks again

Klaus

Sidenote: 

Peter Gransee and his company are not only impressing with their product-lines and that special treatment CPF and CPF-members are getting from him but I want to post that I had the opportunity to receive first-class customer service from them unheard of. Very special company Peter is building up here.

Realizing that such companies focussed on great products, listening to customer feedback and offering great service ususally tend to become major players in their field if they succesfully manage the growing pains - which I think all of us wish Peter to the fullest - might I suggest a special CPF pre-IPO financing round / private placement opportunity





Klaus


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## OrBy (Feb 28, 2002)

darell - the arc aaa's "head" is filled with a epoxy filler of some sort to make it water proof and bond the pc board in - if you mixed gid pigment into this epoxy - the spill back from the led could charge it and it would feed light back through the led when the unit is off - making it seem like its always on dimly (as long as the gid pigment keeps glowing that is)

i dont know if this would work that well but it would be a cool feature if it worked (sort of a always on like the pal lights but with 0 power draw)


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## JonSidneyB (Feb 28, 2002)

I have not been out here for awhile but I remember talk of various special edition ARC's. Has any one considered Brass. That would definately be a special light. I did not think of Brass in a modern light until I saw this. Now I want modern brass flashlights.






I'll bet a Brass Arc-AAA or Arc-LS would be striking.


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## Darell (Feb 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OrBy:
*
if you mixed gid pigment into this epoxy - the spill back from the led could charge it and it would feed light back through the led when the unit is off 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OrBy -

I get it now. I must have missed that particular thread. No way of knowing how well that would work until somebody tried it I guess. Just think how well-charged the GID paint would be if applied to the reflector. It think that'll work GREAT.

Thanks for bringing me up to speed!


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## Gransee (Feb 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DavidW:
*For the time being, only Gransee can start threads. But any registered member can reply. If he wants that changed I will do so.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks David! This should make the data easier to organize.

Do you use PayPal? How about a link to a page that explains why and how to donate to the forum? I understand the CPF is privately funded by your genorosity. You have kept from using ads or other means to pay hosting fees. I know this has probally been suggested before, but I would like to cast my vote and ask that a donation system be put in place. It is entirely up to you of course.

As far as how to organize the Arc forum, I would like for any CPF member to able to start a topic, just like the other forums here. I will also start a couple of general topics which should help organize some of the discussions. We will see how it works and just change if it doesn't.

This particular thread will be retired in a day or two and the discussions picked up in the new threads.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by supertrucker:
*Mr.Gransee, it would be "super swell" if you 
could post the "CPF edition" order link right about...NOW! It's just that I can only get online at home at night. Maybe I could sweeten the deal a little with some Baked goods courtesy of "Superwife"? 
How did you put it earlier?..."Rrright"









*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooh. I am a softy for home cooked meals. 

I am waiting on the link until I have a picture of the CPF edition suitable for the website. This should happen this weekend! That means we will start taking orders this weekend for the CPF edition. I will start a thread in the Arc forum (nice ring to that..)right away and then post the link when it is ready.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harrkev:
*
After I first posted, nobody really responded. If we bug Peter enough, maybe he will look into it.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, I don't remember if I posted on this topic yet. I did think about it though- sure of that.



If the powder is applied to the epoxy, there is no way for the light it produces to effectively shine to the outside world. A very small amount may get past the reflector cup of the LED from the rear and shine through, but we are talking miniscule. Other than that, there is no other visible path. The other idea was to apply it to the reflector or the anodized housing. Since it is a paint, it might flake off over time. I would be happy to test it though if you would like to send me some for that purpose.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*@Peter

my reply to your last email sent to the @gransee domain bounced back again telling me: Unable to relay for [email protected] [xyz being your adress there) - so you might check that again - BTW - MSN s**cks.

My email just was - ANYTIME ! Klaus

Thanks again

Klaus

Sidenote: 

Peter Gransee and his company are not only impressing with their product-lines and that special treatment CPF and CPF-members are getting from him but I want to post that I had the opportunity to receive first-class customer service from them unheard of. Very special company Peter is building up here.

Realizing that such companies focussed on great products, listening to customer feedback and offering great service ususally tend to become major players in their field if they succesfully manage the growing pains - which I think all of us wish Peter to the fullest - might I suggest a special CPF pre-IPO financing round / private placement opportunity





Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Klaus! Yeah, I have about had with MSN. I am looking at other providers.

I toyed with the idea of CPF stock options, but I ultimately realized that it wouldn't work to well. Mostly for legal reasons. Also, you already "invest" in the company and receive dividends on your "investment" everytime you purchase one of our flashlights or provide input on this forum. Your return is ongoing (beyond your initial investment) in the form of support, a good warranty and of course- the use of the product.

That being said, I am also interested in large scale investment by people who can bring such a partnership to the table. Only serious offers please. And only if such an offer ultimately strengthens Arc Flashlight and furthers our ability to indulge our customers. I am pretty picky though and have turned down several offers already because they just weren't worth the time.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:
*I have not been out here for awhile but I remember talk of various special edition ARC's. Has any one considered Brass. That would definately be a special light. I did not think of Brass in a modern light until I saw this. Now I want modern brass flashlights.

I'll bet a Brass Arc-AAA or Arc-LS would be striking.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would it suprise you to know that there are about 30 brass Arc-AAAs in existance? Another side project of our machinist. Some are due to be gold plated even. Now I mentioned this of course, just because you asked. These are not planned products. I will post a picture of some here this weekend.

Just a reminder, we are small company. We occasionally produce variations, prototypes, etc. But because we are a small company, we must be very focused on a simple product line- at least until we grow up. This means no brass flashlights unless all of sudden we start getting flooded with requests. As it is, yours was the first. 

Peter Gransee


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## SFR (Feb 28, 2002)

Peter,

What do you do with all the prototypes and test samples you and your machinists produce?

(How about auction some of them off?



)

Thanks,
SFR


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## PhilAlex (Feb 28, 2002)

Not to be a pain, but I just returned from a very elite marketing conference in the US, and one of the biggest things that was talked about was the whole "limited edition" deal.

Take a look at a company like MINOX. Their little cameras are available in Silver, Platinum, and Chrome plated.

Or Fisher Pen's, even. (Chrome is the best)

You also should have a "bundle" option, IE: One of each colour, and a "super deluxe" version, that comes numbered in a box or something.

Natch, do the same with the Arc-LS.

And Peter: What's this I hear about an ARC that takes a Double A? Tell us MORE!


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## JollyRoger (Feb 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PhilAlex:
*


Natch, do the same with the Arc-LS.

And Peter: What's this I hear about an ARC that takes a Double A? Tell us MORE!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ARC LS takes the AA. Either one or two, depending on the configuration you use. (or CR123 lithium) Was this a joke question? Sorry for the serious answer if it was...


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## txwest (Feb 28, 2002)

Suggested by Peter on his previous post: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Do you use PayPal? How about a link to a page that explains why and how to donate to the forum? I understand the CPF is privately funded by your genorosity. You have kept from using ads or other means to pay hosting fees. I know this has probally been suggested before, but I would like to cast my vote and ask that a donation system be put in place. It is entirely up to you of course. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would be infavor of contributing to the up keep of CPF. TX


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## Steelhead (Feb 28, 2002)

Hi Peter,
Just wondering if you were able to read my post(pg.34) regarding the beam angles etc.

If you could respond with a brief reply(I know you're a busy man) I would really appreciate it.

I have an order on hold at an online store for some of the LE and EVs and the info will help me to make my purchasing decision.
Thanks for all of your help. 
Steelhead


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## Gransee (Feb 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steelhead:
*Hi Peter,
Just wondering if you were able to read my post(pg.34) regarding the beam angles etc.

If you could respond with a brief reply(I know you're a busy man) I would really appreciate it.

I have an order on hold at an online store for some of the LE and EVs and the info will help me to make my purchasing decision.
Thanks for all of your help. 
Steelhead*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm! I must have missed that one..

Here's your orginal post:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steelhead:
*Hi, again Peter

I have a question about MCDs, Beam Angles,and Bulb Colors. I am a bit confused as to how these 3 combine to affect perceived brightness.

I have been to the arc website and have noted the various led outputs and corresponding beam angles. I will list most here for reference.

Eg. Turquoise AAA: 4800mcd 30deg. beam angle
White AAA: 6400mcd 20deg.
Blue AAA: 3200mcd 30deg.
Green AAA: 3400mcd 30deg.
Red AAA: 8500mcd 24deg.
Orange AAA: 10000mcd 15deg.
Yellow AAA: 8000mcd 15deg.

1.) I am under the impression that the greater the beam angle the more diffused the light resulting in a dimmer perceived brightness(how it looks to the eye)while holding bulb color(wavelength)and power supply constant. Is this accurate?

2.) I was wondering what the beam angle is on both the turquoise EV and on the ARC LE as these are not stated on the website. 

3.) If, as I'm guessing, the bulb angles are 30deg. for the EV and 20deg. for the LE. How then do the two lights compare in perceived brightness(to the eye).
IE. Although you mentioned earlier that the turquoise ev had the most output of any of the ARC AAA lights. Is its perceived brightness reduced because of its wider beam angle actually making the LE with its smaller beam angle brighteer to the eye, all be it a white bulb. 

4.)I guess bottom line, of all currently produced ARC AAAs, including EV bulb and LE which light/color/beam angle combo is the brightest to the eye. (Although this may be considered subjective I'll take your eyes word for it so to speak.

Thanks Peter, I hope this helps a lot of others out there as well. 
I'm sure it will help my confused ---.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, the beam angles for the EU and EV turquoise LEDs are both 30 degrees. The difference is in lumenosity (the actual amount of light being produced).

The beam angles for all of our white LED Arc-AAAs are 20 degrees. The difference is tint and total output.

Your first assumption is correct btw, the beam angle spreads the light output over a greater area. This produces a larger "cone" of light. With a color LED, it also reduces rings/etc in the beam. Now the turquoise does have artifacts in the beam so do not be too suprised. The white LED version still produces the smoothest beam of all the LEDs.

I recommend white for general use. The turquiose does produce more light. But since it is more spread out, it does not throw as far as the white does.

Peter Gransee


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## Gransee (Feb 28, 2002)

OK, I created a couple of "hub" topics for this forum. I also asked DavidW to turn on general posting so you can start any thread you wish, please try to keep it Arc related.

We will see how this works. I will lock this thread and pick up the discussion in the other threads. If this doesn't work out in practice, we will go back to the a single thread.

Peter Gransee


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