# TITAN - taken apart



## blitzlicht65 (Nov 16, 2007)

A few pics:





























Greetings:wave:


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## tvodrd (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

:bow: :bow: :bow: You do realize you have some 'splainin to do. 

Larry


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

Awesome. So what's the secret in getting the bezel off?


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## tvodrd (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

After "Shopping" the pics, I see I was wrong about 3 spring-loaded pins. The head is retained by a retaining ring, visible in the 3 little holes. When the ring is squeezed into the power pak, the head is slipped over, and the ring expands into the groove inside. The tool I made should work- I just wasn't aggressive enough with it. I'm curious what the "finger" on the power pak turns?

Larry


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*



tvodrd said:


> After "Shopping" the pics, I see I was wrong about 3 spring-loaded pins. The head is retained by a retaining ring, visible in the 3 little holes. When the ring is squeezed into the power pak, the head is slipped over, and the ring expands into the groove inside. The tool I made should work- I just wasn't aggressive enough with it. I'm curious what the "finger" on the power pak turns?
> 
> Larry



I'm thinking we may have now found out what the "grittiness" is while activating the light. It must be the compressed retaining ring as it expands/presses into that groove.


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## tvodrd (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*



this_is_nascar said:


> I'm thinking we may have now found out what the "grittiness" is while activating the light. It must be the compressed retaining ring as it expands/presses into that groove.



I don't *think* so as the ring rotates with the head and pulling/pushing the head while turning doesn't seem to affect the "grittiness." I await a description of the power pak "Finger's" function. I'd pull mine down, but left the tool at work.

Larry


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## [email protected] (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

As it is 23:45 at Dirk's place now I think it will be tomorrow (or late tonight for the West coast  )


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## ShortArc (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

This thread is starting to get REALLY interesting...
Now I can't wait to get my Titan. Take it apart for sure!:twothumbs


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## tvodrd (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

Wanna borrow my tool?  We have drug yaesumofo's thread waay off topic, but there's been some good stuff posted here. I don't know how much work it would be with this boards software to drag the OT posts to a new "Tech" thread for the Titan. Bernie? For instance, I just "Ohmed" mine in the off position and got 20 Megs one direction and 13.2 MegOhms the other. (Which should suck the cell down in how many years?  ) Just a thought.

Larry


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*



tvodrd said:


> Wanna borrow my tool?  We have drug yaesumofo's thread waay off topic, but there's been some good stuff posted here. I don't know how much work it would be with this boards software to drag the OT posts to a new "Tech" thread for the Titan. Bernie? For instance, I just "Ohmed" mine in the off position and got 20 Megs one direction and 13.2 MegOhms the other. (Which should suck the cell down in how many years?  ) Just a thought.
> 
> Larry



I don't know what that means Larry. Are you saying to draws some power even when off?


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## Kiessling (Nov 16, 2007)

This is the split-off part from here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2228632#post2228632


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## tvodrd (Nov 16, 2007)

That was sure quick, Bernie! :bow: 

TIN, It draws a really tiny micro bit of power in the off position. It's so small that I could be wrong!! (Fingerprints/Pro Gold :shrug: ) Off to steal PSM's X-ray for the thread:






I'm really curious how the thing works!

Larry


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## sbebenelli (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*



tvodrd said:


> I'm curious what the "finger" on the power pak turns?
> 
> Larry



I would say it is the "stop".


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 16, 2007)

Please tell me the white circular tube in the center is something a bit more beefy than a drinking straw.


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## jzmtl (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

Looks similar to a infinate adjustable desk lamp that I had 15 years ago, probably the same principle just on a smaller scale (don't ask how it works, I don't know).


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 16, 2007)

I do like the fact there's double o-rings at the business end of the light.


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## tvodrd (Nov 16, 2007)

From the X-ray. it seems to turn a ring (Magnetic?) which seems to surround 2 circuit boards. I suspect that is the source of the "grittiness" mine and others have reported.

Pk has to be ROFLHAO watching us trying to reverse-engineer the suckers! (He also knows we will succeed!  )

Larry


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## greg_in_canada (Nov 16, 2007)

So where is the pot (or other adjustment technology) located? Is the tab on the edge of the body pushing something or is that just the mechanical stop for min/max?

Thanks - Greg


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## Luminescent (Nov 16, 2007)

Now we should be able to get an answer about what does the adjustment.

I can tell you what has NOTHING to do with it, and that's the toroid core in the middle with wire wound around it, that's just the boost-converter inductor.

The shaft and head most likely connect to a little potentiometer (variable resistor) of some kind on one of the PCB boards. I could be wrong here, there could also be some kind of fancy optical encoder, but my bet's are on surefire to use a cheap potentiometer. That would explain the reports of flickers and inconsistent behavior on some lights when the output level is changed (grassy control, like a noisy volume control in an old radio).

Obviously, don't risk busting anything to find out, but I would like to know if you can tell how the control mechnism works. I have a standing bet with someone in another thread that it's just a cheap pot, and PIC processor with a built in 10 bit A/D convertor (probably 12F675).


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## 4sevens (Nov 17, 2007)

this_is_nascar said:


> Please tell me the white circular tube in the center is something a bit more beefy than a drinking straw.


That tube in the middle looks like teflon (which by the way I heard is classified as a "liquid" fyi  )


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## 65535 (Nov 17, 2007)

If the grittiness is caused by the teflon ring and post system, someone should try cleaning it with some air and lubing it.


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## [email protected] (Nov 17, 2007)

Err, teflon is used in non-stick cookware because it has the lowest friction coefficient besides melting ice... 

I don't think it will be resposible for the grittiness. :thinking:


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## xiaowenzu (Nov 17, 2007)

YIKES! From the looks of things, it seems like the *Titan* is using some kind of Alien technology! Surefire has their sources, but they'd kill us, if we press them about it! :mecry::mecry:


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## 1 what (Nov 17, 2007)

Dont want to spoil the party but you guys do know that once you "let the air in" this thing no longer works (at least that the way a lot of my dis-assemblies go:sigh. Thanks for the pics.


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## xiaowenzu (Nov 17, 2007)

1 what said:


> Dont want to spoil the party but you guys do know that once you "let the air in" this thing no longer works (at least that the way a lot of my dis-assemblies go:sigh. Thanks for the pics.


 I supposed it's vaccum sealed, then! Cool! :thumbsup:


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 17, 2007)

Hot diggity, flashlight pr0n at its best! The expensive stuff is almost always better to look at. Even if you know better than actually buying and using it. 

I'll have to go find PSM's thread now. :naughty:


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## cy (Nov 17, 2007)

coool beans..


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## ShortArc (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*



tvodrd said:


> Wanna borrow my tool?  We have drug yaesumofo's thread waay off topic, but there's been some good stuff posted here. I don't know how much work it would be with this boards software to drag the OT posts to a new "Tech" thread for the Titan. Bernie? For instance, I just "Ohmed" mine in the off position and got 20 Megs one direction and 13.2 MegOhms the other. (Which should suck the cell down in how many years?  ) Just a thought.
> 
> Larry


 

Oh yea...wanna borrow that tool big time OR let's see some pics of it so that we may replicate! McMasters must have solutions here...


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## frisco (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

Kinda explains why my Titan got real smooth after I put a couple of drops of Tri-Flow in the gap.

frisco


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## cave dave (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

Is there a small magnet on the shaft. I would think the coil is some sort of inductive loop which senses the position of the magnet. I really don't think this uses a pot.


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## Luminescent (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*



cave dave said:


> Is there a small magnet on the shaft. I would think the coil is some sort of inductive loop which senses the position of the magnet. I really don't think this uses a pot.



That won't work, toroids are magnetically self shielding. They do use a toroidal arangement for ‘variac’ transformers, so that's probably what you are thinking of, but in that situation the wire is very fine pitch and to 'tap in' on the coil, it's sanded on one surface to create a contact area. To get '1000 levels' you would need at least 1000 turns on the coil so you could tap in at 1000 points. Such an arrangement would be WORSE than a simple potentiometer because copper wears and oxidizes worse than the stuff they make high quality variable resistors out of.

So in this case I suspect that the only reason that the adjustment shaft goes through the coil, is that this component is so large that it would have gotten in the way if they had tried to tuck it to the side and mount it some other way. Most likely the potentiometer is just under the coil on the underlying PCB (or just on the other side of the same PCB).

Sorry, I know it's tempting to think that Surefire must have used some kind of revolutionalry ultra hi-tech approach given what this little toy costs, but it's most likely just a varible resistor, being sampled by the processor. 15 years ago, adding a fancy A/D converter would have been an expensive hi-tech solution, but now the PIC processor with the 10 bit A/D (to get 1024 levels), only adds about 25 cents to the producton cost, so that's by far the most cost effective solution.


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## Kiessling (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

Please do not start to trash this thread with discussions about price and cost again. It is an interesting thread worth reading and it will not become another Bash-Orgy. Thanx all.
bernie


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## cave dave (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

I was extrapolating from the fact that the Surefire U2 uses Hall effect sensors as a switching mechanism and that they might employ a related system for the Titan.

I have no idea how this technology works.


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## Luminescent (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*



cave dave said:


> I was extrapolating from the fact that the Surefire U2 uses Hall effect sensors as a switching mechanism and that they might employ a related system for the Titan.
> 
> I have no idea how this technology works.



Interesting, I guess we will have to just wait and see.




Note to the Moderator. I edited my previous post to take out the references you mentioned. I agree 100% that this thread has had a refreshing amount of 'light', and a refreshing lack of 'heat', and we should keep it that way. :twothumbs


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## Kiessling (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*

Thank you, luminescent. 

I hope that some of us are able to understand how this thing works. I am curious 

bernie


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 17, 2007)

If you look closely at your Titan, it appears the bezel is actually 2-pieces. At least it looks like that on mine. It appears the outmost portion would be what we know at the bezel-cap, keeping the reflector in place.


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## tvodrd (Nov 17, 2007)

Yes, and you can see the bezel threads on the X-ray. The positive battery contact is also the "post" sticking up from the power pak. It is hexagonal and rigidly-attached to the power pak to rotate with it. If the "finger: on the power pak is just for rotational stop purposes, then the hex batt+ post is what turns an encoder or "pot." It must through some means also provide the on/off function. I should have run into work and gotten my tool.

I lightened one of blitzlicht65's pics:






Larry


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## outlaw918692000 (Nov 17, 2007)

Ok here is how it works. 
1. The shaft is locked in to a small disk made of a new classified alloy developed by an aerospace research facility. The disk slowly becomes thicker like a round spark plug gaper. With this alloy T.I.B.S. for short, the flow of power becomes greater as the thickness decreases. 
2. Micro laser pickups receive the current form the T.I.B.S. disk through laser conduit technology. Thus there is no possibility of worn out contacts. Of course some power loss occurs from the lasers consumption.
3. The entire light was designed and built by the Keebler elves and only works because of elfin magic.


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## Illum (Nov 17, 2007)

I wonder why use toroidal inductors when ferrite cores are so common in driver boards....is there any special reason why fewer wounds are better in this case?

blitzlicht65, can you possible post a picture of the driver board itself? something keeps reminding me that the drivers is a vertical mounted pot with a hex fitting on the knob


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## tvodrd (Nov 17, 2007)

More conjecture on my part. I wish one of our EEs had one and was following this thread.

Is the brightness current-controlled or PWM? I don't have a scope. If it's controlled by a "pot," the conductive plastic types are less noisy and have very long lifetimes. A "dead spot" on one could provide the off/on function.

I hope someone with 2 of 'em will do a runtime at the lowest (potentially "locator") level. It wouldn't be fair to ask someone with only one. TIN. 

EDIT: Belay that, TIN, I just partially pulled my head outta my a**! One of my ammeters says the thing pulls ~11mA on the lowest setting. I then tried it with a 1.29V AA Nimh and it lit(!) pulling ~20mA. Should 75+ hours in a "locator" mode!

Larry


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## PEU (Nov 17, 2007)

I was just browsing the surefire page about the titan, it says nothing about special functions, so its unique (and excelent) feature I guess is just going from low to high variable brightness.

This being the case, my educated guess is: there is no microcontroller in there because there is no need for it, you can do everything analog, and that includes the infinite levels, if they where digital they most probably would be a finite number.

Regarding the big inductor, I guess they used one that big for a couple of reasons, one mechanical and one electronical, the mechanical because it allows a shaft thru it, and the electronical because bigger inductors perform better and thicker wires have less resistance thus less losses and more efficiency.

Thats my two cents (of peso)

[edit] re-reading their specs they say: "over 1,000 possible output levels" and that may indicate a microprocesor is being used, I keep the big inductor guess 
[edit2] note to self, I must pay attention when I read, from their site: "microprocessor-controlled LED"  As posted earlier, they must be doing some A/D conversion to get 1024 levels of light.

Pablo


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## tvodrd (Nov 17, 2007)

Brightness levels *seem* to be a "step" mode, at least with the lowest ones. :shrug:

Larry


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## 4sevens (Nov 17, 2007)

tvodrd said:


> Brightness levels *seem* to be a "step" mode, at least with the lowest ones. :shrug:
> Larry


Perhaps it's the resolution of the variable resistor?


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## PEU (Nov 17, 2007)

I edited my previous post


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## Anglepoise (Nov 17, 2007)

Well whatever is in there is sure taking up a hell of allot of space. I would hope that it has something a little more hi tech than a potentiometer. Hall effect or magnets or encoder would be very nice indeed.


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## PEU (Nov 17, 2007)

Well... if you have a shaft you can use one of these position sensing hall sensors instead of a pot, that would give you durability, since there is no potentiometer wear.

At the shaft end you put a magnet with diametral magnetization over this sensor and then process the output with the uC, the result is the same as moving a pot.

Pablo


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## Luminescent (Nov 17, 2007)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I wonder why use toroidal inductors when ferrite cores are so common in driver boards....is there any special reason why fewer wounds are better in this case?
> 
> blitzlicht65, can you possible post a picture of the driver board itself? something keeps reminding me that the drivers is a vertical mounted pot with a hex fitting on the knob


 
Toroidal inductors can also have ferrite cores, fewer windings of fat wire help lower resistance losses, and are also generally an indication of lower inductance and therefore of operation at a higher switching frequency.

So (all other things being equal), fewer turns = lower loss, and most probably a newer high frequency switching design. Many old switching regulators operated at 60 KHz or even lower, where it's now common for them to operate at 1MHz - 2MHz. Something like a LTC3490 switching at 1.3 MHz which hits better than 90% efficiency with the battery voltage at 3 volts.

This is just a generalization however, because there are huge differences in core permeability between common core materials like Iron powder, and low and high permeability ferrites, and without knowing the permeability you can't really tell what the inductance value is, and without that you can only make a guess about the switching frequency.


Just for the record; here are my best guesses on the Titan -

Level adjustment device - Variable Resistor (same type used in small RC servos)

CPU - PIC 12F675 (built in A/D converter provides 1024 levels)

Emitter Driver - Linear Technology LTC3490


AGAIN THESE ARE JUST GUESSES (but they are all consistant with the information about the Titan disclosed so far).


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## blitzlicht65 (Nov 18, 2007)

This are my special tools to remove the head: :lolsign:


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## blitzlicht65 (Nov 18, 2007)

And here are new pics  :

















































Greetings:wave:


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## blitzlicht65 (Nov 18, 2007)

I think the grittiness comes from the retaining ring.

I removed the retaining ring, polished the threads and lubricated it with Krytox .

Now the action is very smooth .




Greetings:wave:


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## koala (Nov 18, 2007)

*About Toroid Coil*
It is probably the first time I come across this type of coil used in flashlight, not transformer based setup.
The toroid coil looks like a hand wound coil to me. The coils doesn't look pretty... hmmmm

The coil is a toroid coil. It's magnetic field is confined within it's core. It's size is bigger than normal style bobbin. I believe it was chosen for a reason. The brightness control may be magnetic and some hall effect sensors for detection(wild guess I don't know). The toroid coil is least immune to magnetic interference so it's best for the TITAN. I have a feeling it's using a pot.


This is a quote from MrAl, our friendly and wise electronics guru...


MrAl said:


> One concern about flashlight inductors is the interference produced by
> nearby magnets. A toroid will react the least to this kind of interference
> while some open designs will end up having a huge change in inductance.
> *This could kill a flashlight when a magnet comes near*.



I'm curious.. what's the thing under the Toroid Coil...
It looks like a sandwich to me, there's H1-H7, so 7 headers?


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## Mister T (Nov 18, 2007)

koala said:


> *About Toroid Coil*
> I'm curious.. what's the thing under the Toroid Coil...
> It looks like a sandwich to me, there's H1-H7, so 7 headers?


No, that is just an ordinary potentiometer with three contacts. You can even read its value (100 kOhm) on this picture: 






Timo


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## koala (Nov 18, 2007)

Yes you are right, it is a potential meter. 100K inverted. :thumbsup: It appears there's a sandwich underneath too...


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## [email protected] (Nov 18, 2007)

PSM posted a very nice x-ray pic where you can clearly see the circuit boards.


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## garfieldso (Nov 18, 2007)

*Re: SF TITAN ISSUES You have any?*



cave dave said:


> Is there a small magnet on the shaft. I would think the coil is some sort of inductive loop which senses the position of the magnet. I really don't think this uses a pot.



Well, may blitzlicht65 take a close up photo to show the details and the no. printed the the device underneath the coil. I do think that it is a simply VR.


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## DM51 (Nov 18, 2007)

I've been mostly away for 2 days and have only just found this thread - VERY interesting, but it must be a split-off from some other thread (?)

Maybe I haven't seen all the other related stuff yet, but why are the red wires round that toroid so unevenly and randomly spaced apart? It looks a very amateurish wiring effort - is there a good reason for it?


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## Size15's (Nov 18, 2007)

DM51 said:


> Maybe I haven't seen all the other related stuff yet, but why are the red wires round that toroid so unevenly and randomly spaced apart? It looks a very amateurish wiring effort - is there a good reason for it?


It may appear uneven and random but the spacings follow the Fibonacci sequence to invert the poloidal flux.

Either that, or there is a secondary coil inter-wound and both have been hand wound. :shrug:


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## greenlight (Nov 18, 2007)

Size15's said:


> It may appear uneven and random but the spacings follow the Fibonacci sequence to invert the poloidal flux.


I kept thinking the same thing.


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## greenlight (Nov 18, 2007)

:green::sigh:


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## DM51 (Nov 18, 2007)

What do you mean, you don't know about poloidal flux?


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## Vikas Sontakke (Nov 18, 2007)

The 100K pot better be made of Unobtanioum to give it the legendery Surefire durability. Seriously, I am back to my original concerns about short lifetime of volume control knobs in each and every electronic item that uses one.

I could say, "I told you so" 

- Vikas


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## Luminescent (Nov 18, 2007)

PEU said:


> Well... if you have a shaft you can use one of these position sensing hall sensors instead of a pot, that would give you durability, since there is no potentiometer wear.
> 
> At the shaft end you put a magnet with diametral magnetization over this sensor and then process the output with the uC, the result is the same as moving a pot.
> 
> Pablo



That's a truly great option for eliminating long term wear with very high rotational resolution (even more than the 1000 step resolution Surefire is claiming), but the power consumption is about 10 milliamps and it doesn't seem very well suited to a quick polling scheme with low duty cycle operation (turning it on for a few microseconds every few millisconds to reduce the average power to microamps). This means it draws way too much power to be left running all the time to sense if the light should be powered on or off, so you would probably need another micro-power hall sensor to sense that the bezel was turned off zero to wake up the main uC and power up this precision rotational sensor.

Something like the allegro A3211 or A3212 which only draw about 15uW of power, 
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/3212/

This type of micro-power hall effect switch could be used to sense the initial bezel rotation and turn the light on, then the higher power rotational sensor can be used to get precision rotation information.

Surefire is almost certainly already using several tricks to manage power in the Titan when it is powered off, because even if they are using a simple potentiometer, they need to shut down the CPU when not needed (or use a low duty cycle sleep/wake cycle to save power). So the slight issue of the 10ma. current draw on the MLX90316 Rotary Position Sensor IC is not that big a deal.

Surefire may have indeed used some Hall sensors in the design (or perhapse just a simple variable resistor). Who knows.

Looking forward to a definite answer, when someone gets a clear enough picture to really see what’s under that coil and PCB.

EDIT:
I have also been away over the weekend. Looking back over the thread at the more recent pics, it does look EXACTLY like a small 100k variable resistor has been used in the Titan. Hopefully surefire did as I speculated in my previous posts and used the same type of potentiometer proven in RC model airplane and RC car servo's and didn't just use a round 'trim pot'. Trim pots don't have good rotational life because they are just intended for occasional adjustments during manufacture or calibration. The potentiometers used in servos are much better, but even they wear out in a couple years and get 'grassy' or noisy such that the servo starts to jitter.

So we are back to my previous prediction:

Level adjustment device - Variable Resistor (HOPEFULLY the same long life type used in small RC servos)

CPU - PIC 12F675 (built in A/D converter provides 1024 levels)

Emitter Driver - Linear Technology LTC3490

I hope Surefire did a little research on that pot before releasing the Titan, because if it's the same type used in servos, it could be good for years of service, but if it's a simple trim pot . . . Well, better hope for some of that great Surefire customer service. :sigh:

Assuming that we are not missing something, and that the current Titan is using a simple 100k potentiometer, then it's a damn shame. The rotational sensor posted by PEU is indeed the 'correct' part for the Titan (looks like Surefire just missed it).

The good news is that this is such a wonderful 'why didn't I think of that!' idea that Surefire is quite likely to steal it. :thumbsup: So for those of you hollering for another batch of Titans, you might want to wait and see if Surefire makes the switch to a Hall effect based rotational sensor in the next batch.

(Note to the Mods: Not trying to stir up a flame war about the quality of the current Titan here, just giving a bit of friendly advise that there may be an even BETTER Titan coming down the line soon).


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## tvodrd (Nov 18, 2007)

Luminescent, is your participation in this thread because you have one and are curious how it works, or you;re CPF's next Newbie? Geeze, it might be a "pot!" Is it a carbon. wirewound, or conductive plastic? 100K would seem to rule out wirewound! How much current is it carrying? I measured ~11 mA at the lowest setting for the "system." Can you confirm or elucidate on that reading? I'm not an EE, nor do I play one on TV or here on CPF!

I've EDC'd mine for the last couple weeks, and am happy with it! Has your "experience" with one been less than faviorible?

Larry


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## AndyTiedye (Nov 18, 2007)

PEU said:


> Well... if you have a shaft you can use one of these position sensing hall sensors instead of a pot, that would give you durability, since there is no potentiometer wear.
> 
> At the shaft end you put a magnet with diametral magnetization over this sensor and then process the output with the uC, the result is the same as moving a pot.
> 
> Pablo


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## Luminescent (Nov 19, 2007)

tvodrd said:


> Luminescent, is your participation in this thread because you have one and are curious how it works, or you;re CPF's next Newbie? Geeze, it might be a "pot!" Is it a carbon. wirewound, or conductive plastic? 100K would seem to rule out wirewound! How much current is it carrying? I measured ~11 mA at the lowest setting for the "system." Can you confirm or elucidate on that reading? I'm not an EE, nor do I play one on TV or here on CPF!
> 
> I've EDC'd mine for the last couple weeks, and am happy with it! Has your "experience" with one been less than faviorible?
> 
> Larry



Hi Larry,

I have to confess right up front that I am not a Titan owner (but I am indeed an electrical engineer). I am almost nuts enough for a Titanium body flashlight that I would pay Surefire's price, but wanted to find out exactly this kind of info before plonking down my money.

I think a lot of others are in the same boat, and feel the same way.

My original speculation about the potentiometer being used was an educated guess which I made before the pictures of the interior were even available, based on the performance specs posted for the Titan, and my knowledge as an engineer of the simplest way to get the job done. This seems to have indeed been the way Surefire approached the problem. (it will be interesting to see if my other predictions about the PIC12F675 MPU and the LTC3490 driver chip also prove accurate).

My most recent comments that the presence of a 100K potentiometer seems to have been confirmed are based on this image which I have borrowed, and reproduced below. No that's not my Titan, and NO this isn't my photograph (thanks to the original poster). This version has been edited only to enlarge, flip, and brighten the area of interest so you can see the '100K' component value that everyone is talking about more clearly.










My statements about the importance of selecting a good quality variable resistor are based on years of experience of both using, and repairing, RC servos that use similar small potentiometers as feedback elements, and which are also subject to problems from wear on these components.

The servos in an RC aircraft can be cycled hundreds of times in a single flight, and I have seen top quality servos last for years before ultimately becoming noisy and starting to have jitter problems.

So the presence of a potentiometer in the Titan would not necessarily cause problems, but it is an area of concern that I think folks should be made aware of.

At the present time I have NO IDEA what kind of potentiometer was used (though as you say, we can safely rule out wire wound in such a small profile at 100k).


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## GarageBoy (Nov 19, 2007)

No transistor switching to control the LED?


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## garfieldso (Nov 19, 2007)

Luminescent said:


> Hi Larry,
> 
> ......
> 
> ...



If it is a carbon plated pot, that means we have to clean it from time to time by "Contact Cleaner"?


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## Vikas Sontakke (Nov 19, 2007)

** Deleted **


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## Illum (Nov 19, 2007)

garfieldso said:


> If it is a carbon plated pot, that means we have to clean it from time to time by "Contact Cleaner"?


 
how will you go about doing that if the flashlights meant to be sealed up?
if it is indeed a carbon plated pot it sounds like a surefire scheme to retire these lights prematurely


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## bmstrong (Nov 19, 2007)

Anyone know what grade Titanium is used? 

Anyone done a pool/tub test? I'm curious to see how much water it can withstand...


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## ShortArc (Nov 19, 2007)

How about starting a Titan “surgery fund”.
We all pitch in buy one send it to the most qualified volunteer and dissect the puppy.
Or we can just ask Larry to dissect his !


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## cy (Nov 19, 2007)

could give a rats a** how surefire achieved this coooool light. 

all I know is .... Titan has one of the best user interface on the planet. 
if surefire managed to do it with a plain ole pot, then great!

if surefire has determined Titan is good enough to bless with it's lifetime warranty, then that's good enough for me. 

my self... no plans on taking apart. not going to kill my lifetime warranty to disturb what is an excellent overall package. 

who says state of the art has to use magnetic controls? every system has it's weakness. to me it's all about who manages to put together a system with the best compromises. 

it's been quite some time, since I've been truly exited about a new light. enough to lay out $500... no disappointments here... got my $$ worth. 



Luminescent said:


> I have to confess right up front that I am not a Titan owner (but I am indeed an electrical engineer).
> 
> My most recent comments that the presence of a 100K potentiometer seems to have been confirmed are based on this image which I have borrowed, and reproduced below. .


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## Phredd (Nov 19, 2007)

cy said:


> _ could give a rats a** how surefire achieved this coooool light._


_

Then why are you looking at a thread on the Titan being taken apart? I find this very interesting and I'm thankful to PSM for the cool x-ray and to blitzlicht65 for being brave enough to take his Titan apart and showing all of us what they look like from the inside.

Some people here are guessing and others have a good idea how the Titan works. I think it's a good discussion and I hope people aren't discouraged by someone coming on to say how he couldn't care how the Titan works.

Phredd_


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## tvodrd (Nov 19, 2007)

I tried my "tool" again today, and no joy! It's a ring with a hole in the middle for the light and three radial screws at 120deg with the tips turned down to ~.035" to fit the holes. I'll round the tips of the screws and try again tomorrow.

I'll "bash" it a little. While the lowest level will be cool for a "locator," I have to twist it more than I like to get a low level for navigating from my office to dark parts of the house. A custom, non-linear pot could improve it a little. (That's a _little!_) I concur, cy, a bitchin UI!

And an apology to Luminescent for jumping you! 

Larry


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## cy (Nov 19, 2007)

OK... you caught me  

of course I'm curious on what drives titan. bad wording... what I really mean is .... 



Phredd said:


> Then why are you looking at a thread on the Titan being taken apart? I find this very interesting and I'm thankful to PSM for the cool x-ray and to blitzlicht65 for being brave enough to take his Titan apart and showing all of us what they look like from the inside.
> 
> Some people here are guessing and others have a good idea how the Titan works. I think it's a good discussion and I hope people aren't discouraged by someone coming on to say how he couldn't care how the Titan works.
> 
> Phredd


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## Illum (Nov 21, 2007)

I love technical threads 

it makes me feel like an *** every other post I make no matter what I do in terms of educated responses


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## TOOCOOL (Nov 21, 2007)

Is there a bug in the Titan ?











A little red one with big white eyes :nana:


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## AMD64Blondie (Nov 21, 2007)

I don't know about anyone else... but if I owned a Titan..(I wish... :laughing..I'd keep it in one piece. I'd be rather nervous tearing apart a $500 Surefire.


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## frisco (Nov 21, 2007)

Thats a 100K wire wrapped Motivator if I've ever seen one. Works the same way my wife does. She starts turning the screws tighter and tighter and I get more and more motivated.

frisco


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## UncleFester (Nov 22, 2007)

Luminescent:
Let me qualify my observation first. I don't own a Titan nor have I see one. However I think you're on the right track. That big toroid will have a low series resistance and yet the size of the core would allow sufficient inductance with a relatively low perm material. The high inductance would make low level dimming a lot easier to do. One quick point: the LTC3490 has a dimming pin wich is usually driven from a voltage divder-which could be driven from the output or the input voltage... I think. No uP necessary.. maybe. I also agree.. Let's hope that's a hi rel pot. 
To the rest of the crew:
I believe this is a constant current dimmer, that big inductor would make that practical. 
Larry, when you first mentioned that hex shaft I should have realized it was to drive the pot. I'm getting senile I think.

Well, now that I've shown my :whoopin:, I'll shut up now.


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## koala (Nov 23, 2007)

Hi guys,

I don't own a Titan but I am interested in stuff being taken apart . Don't you think that the positioning of the the pot seems to make it easy for servicing?


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## EVOeight (Nov 23, 2007)

The size of that pot sure leaves a lot to be desired. It seems that it added too much length to the flashlight. I would think you could get the same effect using something much smaller...


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## Anglepoise (Nov 23, 2007)

It was pointed out to me by a friend who looked carefully at the photos that there are the letters 'H' and a sequential number visible in a couple of photos.
Could the 'H' stand for 'Hall'??


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## koala (Nov 23, 2007)

Could be 'h'eader pins connecting the top pcb to the bottom pcb, much like a sandwich. Could be...


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 23, 2007)

EVOeight said:


> The size of that pot sure leaves a lot to be desired. It seems that it added too much length to the flashlight. I would think you could get the same effect using something much smaller...



... and you would accomplish the same effect using what?


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## frisco (Nov 23, 2007)

What number Titan do you think is in China already been taken apart completely?


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## Arcoholic (Nov 23, 2007)

frisco said:


> What number Titan do you think is in China already been taken apart completely?



I was wondering the same thing and even worse when will we see fake ones trying to cash in on the price. 
I sure hope this does not happen


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## this_is_nascar (Nov 23, 2007)

Arcoholic said:


> I was wondering the same thing and even worse when will we see fake ones trying to cash in on the price.
> I sure hope this does not happen



Yea. The sad part is, I bet as soon as you see them available, you'll see dozens and dozens of people right here on CPF buying them. The only way to curve this type of activity (for these knock-off-clones) is not to buy them, however most folks on CPF are looking to the most for the cheapest price possible. When their "wants" are put to the test, doing the right thing usually takes a back seat.


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## milkyspit (Nov 24, 2007)

Ray, not to wax overly philosophical, but while the optimist in me hopes one day to awaken in a world where everyone does the right thing (and let's not even go down the road of defining 'right' for all contexts), the truth is that some folks will buy only the original product... you know, the 'genuine article'... some will buy another name brand with better perceived value... and still others will jump on the lowest-price bandwagon. I do believe that like fine crafted Swiss watches (Oris comes to mind, there are many others), there will always be a certain market segment that values quality and craftsmanship, and is willing to pay a premium for it. There are others who will ride the crest of technology, keeping outfits like SureFire afloat so long as SureFire continues to innovate, doesn't drop the ball at some point.

As for the disassembly... after seeing the light's innards via photos it's not clear to me where the gritty sensation comes from. Any thoughts? :thinking:


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## LukeA (Nov 24, 2007)

Arcoholic said:


> I was wondering the same thing and even worse when will we see fake ones trying to cash in on the price.
> I sure hope this does not happen* soon*



FTFY. There's precious little intellectual property protection in China today.


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## blitzlicht65 (Nov 24, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> As for the disassembly... after seeing the light's innards via photos it's not clear to me where the gritty sensation comes from. Any thoughts? :thinking:


 

Hi Scott:wave:,

please see my post #50 




Greetings:wave:


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## Kilovolt (Nov 24, 2007)

Blitzlicht, my Titan is only slightly gritty after a few days of use. I have no intention of opening it. 

You have seen the retaining ring and its grooves, do you think that putting a droplet of lubricant into the three holes will help? In other threads I have read that somebody is in favor of lubrication and some others are against it.


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## blitzlicht65 (Nov 24, 2007)

Kilovolt said:


> Blitzlicht, my Titan is only slightly gritty after a few days of use. I have no intention of opening it.
> 
> You have seen the retaining ring and its grooves, do you think that putting a droplet of lubricant into the three holes will help? In other threads I have read that somebody is in favor of lubrication and some others are against it.


 
Hi Kilovolt:wave:,

yes I think it would help to put a few drops of White Lightning (I think it's one of the best lubricants) into the holes.
You can put also few drops into the gap between the body and the head.


Greetings:wave:


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## frisco (Nov 24, 2007)

I took the chance back on Day 1 to put a couple drops of Tri-Flo in the gap. I was afraid of Ti on Ti galling. Mine is VERY smooth with no issues after the lube job. After seeing whats been taken apart, I'm thinking it's ok to lube it.
YMMV

frisco


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## milkyspit (Nov 24, 2007)

blitzlicht65 said:


> Hi Scott:wave:,
> 
> please see my post #50
> 
> ...




Yup, I missed that. Thank you. 

BTW, those look like nice tweezers you're using!


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## Billman730 (Dec 11, 2007)

LOL If I am ever around any of you Guys my Titan will be around my neck tucked in for safety! As to working good, The day it does not work it becomes fish lure when I'm out deep sea fishing for sure...

If the Oil can get to the O Ring it will not be good. I have 30 WT. Silicone oil fro RC Truck Shocks I thought of trying a drop or two. Won't wreck o-ring...


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## chimo (Jan 3, 2008)

I was doing some mods today, noticed the pot below (in my pot drawer) and thought of this thread. Could this be the type used in the Titan?

Pot shots


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2008)

I would hope not, those are trimpots, not suited for intensive use...


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## KenAnderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Size15's said:


> It may appear uneven and random but the spacings follow the Fibonacci sequence to invert the poloidal flux.
> 
> Either that, or there is a secondary coil inter-wound and both have been hand wound. :shrug:


 
I don't see the Fibonacci sequence in the visual spacing, are you meaning in the interior of the winding itself?

0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597, 2584, 4181, 6765, 10946, 17711, 28657


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## Size15's (Jan 3, 2008)

KenAnderson said:


> I don't see the Fibonacci sequence in the visual spacing, are you meaning in the interior of the winding itself?
> 
> 0, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597, 2584, 4181, 6765, 10946, 17711, 28657


Must be hand wound then :thinking:


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## chimo (Jan 3, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I would hope not, those are trimpots, not suited for intensive use...




Bart, when I look at these pics a second time, it does look like a trimpot, however, these are regular potentiometers with a manufacturer's spec'd life from 500 to 100K cycles. I guess they supply a lot of automotive sensors. More info at: http://www.piher-nacesa.com. 

Paul


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## [email protected] (Jan 3, 2008)

I stand corrected.  I wonder when they start to develope noise though, that's usually a lot sooner... :thinking:


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## Phredd (Jan 13, 2008)

I just got my Titan back after they replaced the bezel. A part fell out, so I have a photo of the innards to add:







I also have an idea on the cause of the grittiness. This head turns a little more easily than it did with the original. I noticed if I pull the two turning parts away from each other, it turns more easily. I push and it's very, very gritty. So, I think the it's the outer ring where the head meets the body. I know it sounds obvious, but I don't think anyone else has suggested that. So, maybe the solution is to take the head off and sand it just a little shorter. Or push and turn for a while to wear away some material.

I also polished mine for a more natural titanium look. I like it much better and now we know that the laser engraving is deep enough to survive polishing.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2310787&postcount=66

Phredd


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## Tempest UK (Jan 14, 2008)

Looks good, Phredd  Nice job with the polishing. 

Regards,
Tempest


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## Illum (Feb 19, 2008)

Any updates as to what the bottom half of the driver board looks like?


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## 454Casull (Feb 19, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Err, teflon is used in non-stick cookware because it has the lowest friction coefficient besides melting ice...


Wrong on all three points, actually.

Teflon is used on cookware because it has extremely low surface energy and is hydrophobic.

NFC (Near-Frictionless Carbon) along with some forms of DLC (Diamond-Like Carbon) and MoS2 (I'm sure I'm forgetting some others) are coatings that can achieve lower coefficients of friction than PTFE (the regular Teflon).

And melting ice... how did you even figure that was one material? And the most slippery, at that?


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## Phredd (Feb 19, 2008)

454Casull said:


> And melting ice... the most slippery, at that?



I guess I should let him answer, but just think about how ice skates work. Pressure melts the ice and creates a very slippery surface.

But you got him on 2 out of 3... you must be proud.

I see you only have 1 post. Did you create a new account just to respond to his post?


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## 454Casull (Feb 19, 2008)

Phredd said:


> I guess I should let him answer, but just think about how ice skates work. Pressure melts the ice and creates a very slippery surface.
> 
> But you got him on 2 out of 3... you must be proud.
> 
> I see you only have 1 post. Did you create a new account just to respond to his post?


No, actually. I created this account to use the Search function, but I appreciate the taunt. I like a forum with feisty members. :twothumbs

My third point was not to deny that wet ice was slippery, but that wet ice is a combination of substances, not one substance alone. The water acts as a lubricant of sorts... Want to bet that there isn't a lubricated material that's more slippery than wet ice?


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## yaesumofo (Feb 19, 2008)

I am really looking forward to seeing the insides of the new aluminum version.
My titan has grown on me somewhat. despite the fact that I have a single flicker when I adjust the brightness.
from high to low. it flickers once very close to the top.
Anyway the titan is a cool flashlight. I really appreciate that PSM X-rayed one for all of us to see. The disassembled unit is also very interesting.
It doesn't look like a 500 light on the inside to me and I don't give a hoot either.
The Titan is just cool regardless of what is on the inside.
As for the flicker I plan to wait until SF has settled on the how they are fixing the lights and I hear that they have a way to make them perfect.
(MY fear is that while I just have a little flicker I wouldn't want the light to come back worse than when I sent it) Anyway the titan taken apart even several months later is still cool. Hell Any light taken apart is cool.

The aluminum titan (why not just give it a new name alltogether? the new light is not a TITAN because it is not made from titanium. I would guess that they named the TITAN because of the material it was made from.)
Is sure to be a very popumar flashlight. I am quite amazed that the prices which the orignal titans are selling for. There seems to be quite a demand for them and they aren't even done making them yet (apparently).
Looking forwared to seeing an X-ray of an aluminum unit.
Yaesumofo


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## DM51 (Feb 20, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> The aluminum titan (why not just give it a new name alltogether? the new light is not a TITAN because it is not made from titanium. I would guess that they named the TITAN because of the material it was made from.)


They should call it ALAN, lol.


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## JeffN (Feb 20, 2008)

DM51 said:


> They should call it ALAN, lol.


 
Or the ALUMIN, which sort of works on more than one level. Like the light.


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## cave dave (Mar 15, 2008)

The original pictures have disappeared. Did anybody save them?
:mecry:

Also I didn't see anybody mention this but under features #2 in the included booklet it says:

"*Potentiometer *control for selecting any level between 0 and 65 lumens"


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## Kilovolt (Mar 15, 2008)

cave dave said:


> The original pictures have disappeared. Did anybody save them?
> :mecry:


 
I can still see them, the problem must be at your end. :thinking:


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## Illum (Mar 15, 2008)

CPF threads sometimes fail to load all the pics on the first try, click the refresh button a couple of times and see if that helps 

Firefox keeps itself occupied with loading the avatars first...I don't know what the deal is but hey, thats my problem, not yours :thumbsup:


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## fineday (Mar 16, 2008)

Is it broken now?

I had been really dreaming for a quite long time about owning a TITAN while it was just launched.


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## cy (Mar 17, 2008)

Really happy to report... since I've come up with this crude but reliable lanyard attachment point for Titan. works really well for teeth hold duties. 

made out of a 12pt 8mm surplus aircraft fastener. 

Titan is back on active EDC duties on my neck. 
other light pictured below is a Li14430, which was replaced by Titan.


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## kaichu dento (Dec 31, 2008)

Since we know the head can be taken off, has anyone changed emitters in a Titan yet? This is my new favorite light and a warmer tint would make it just short of perfect!


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## MorpheusT1 (May 1, 2009)

Seems like a good time to bump this thread now that the T1A is out.

Emitter swap anyone.


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## Chrontius (May 2, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> Ray, not to wax overly philosophical, but while the optimist in me hopes one day to awaken in a world where everyone does the right thing (and let's not even go down the road of defining 'right' for all contexts), the truth is that some folks will buy only the original product... you know, the 'genuine article'... some will buy another name brand with better perceived value... and still others will jump on the lowest-price bandwagon. I do believe that like fine crafted Swiss watches (Oris comes to mind, there are many others), there will always be a certain market segment that values quality and craftsmanship, and is willing to pay a premium for it. There are others who will ride the crest of technology, keeping outfits like SureFire afloat so long as SureFire continues to innovate, doesn't drop the ball at some point.
> 
> As for the disassembly... after seeing the light's innards via photos it's not clear to me where the gritty sensation comes from. Any thoughts? :thinking:



I find cheap chinese knockoffs less offensive than cheap chinese originals... which are really just cheap knockoffs of something that's been out for a few years. Now, I don't mean to single out the Chinese - there's a lot of Asia where this happens, and an appreciable amount elsewhere - or to paint all of China with the same brush (Fenix, Jetbeam, I'm looking at you - keep up the good work!) At least when you knowingly buy a cheap knockoff, you're being honest about what you're getting, and your expectations at some level, but my limited experience with (and study of others) cheap knockoffs and cheap originals doesn't endear me to either. I propose we can-of-worms this subject, and take discussion of this elsewhere.

Back on topic, the Titan uses a SSC P4, right?

Emitter swap should be cake (once you get the silly thing apart).


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## brighterisbetter (Jul 22, 2009)

kaichu dento said:


> changed emitters





MorpheusT1 said:


> Emitter swap anyone.





Chrontius said:


> Emitter swap should be cake


I'd be *very interested* in putting a K2 in that sucker, but wouldn't that completely void Surefire's warranty? I mean, on less expensive lights I have no problem with farming out mods to obtain a light more suited to my preferences. But if something should go wrong on a $400-$500+ light either after or during the modification, can a replacement driver even be acquired to get it back to stock configuration? And delving into this proposition even further, say you can get it back to totally stock; would SF be able to tell whether it's been tampered with (ie. marking or designation instated during manufacturing process only recognizable/replicated by SF themselves)?


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## csshih (Jul 22, 2009)

:O that's pretty cool.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 23, 2009)

brighterisbetter said:


> I'd be *very interested* in putting a K2 in that sucker...


I've been thinking how nice the high CRI would be too!


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## Viper715 (Aug 16, 2009)

Ok I got my new T1A. I love the light! Boy do I hate the tint! So a call to modders anyone taken one of these apart an swapped the LED. A high CRI SSC would be perfect. 

I'm willing to let mine go under the knife of a very skilled modder if they are willing and confident that it can be accomplished. So are there any takers. I'll buy the emmiter and anything else needed. I'll supply the light I just need you to put the baby in there and make this near perfect light perfect.


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## kaichu dento (Aug 16, 2009)

Viper715 said:


> Ok I got my new T1A. I love the light! Boy do I hate the tint! So a call to modders anyone taken one of these apart an swapped the LED. A high CRI SSC would be perfect.
> 
> I'm willing to let mine go under the knife of a very skilled modder if they are willing and confident that it can be accomplished. So are there any takers. I'll buy the emmiter and anything else needed. I'll supply the light I just need you to put the baby in there and make this near perfect light perfect.


I'll be watching this closely to see if I should do it to my Titan!


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## [email protected] (Aug 16, 2009)

Viper715 said:


> Ok I got my new T1A. I love the light! Boy do I hate the tint! So a call to modders anyone taken one of these apart an swapped the LED. A high CRI SSC would be perfect.
> 
> I'm willing to let mine go under the knife of a very skilled modder if they are willing and confident that it can be accomplished. So are there any takers. I'll buy the emmiter and anything else needed. I'll supply the light I just need you to put the baby in there and make this near perfect light perfect.



Off the top of my head: TeknoCowboy and DatiLED. Try PM'ing them.

edit: don't forget about darkzero.


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## DaFABRICATA (Sep 4, 2009)

Ha anyone gotten this aprt further to do an emitter swap?

Anyone take off the top part of the head containing the window?

It the reflector machined into the bottom part of the head like the KL4 where it can't be removed?


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## milkyspit (Sep 4, 2009)

I'm working on getting one completely apart... very slowly... will let everyone know what I find.


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## DaFABRICATA (Sep 4, 2009)

milkyspit said:


> I'm working on getting one completely apart... very slowly... will let everyone know what I find.


 


Please do Scott!:twothumbs:bow:
Please include pics if possible.

*The Minute you find something out, PLEASE help!*

I _can not stand_ the terrible tint and out of focus emitter..:shakehead


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 4, 2009)

Scott may end up making a $1,000,000 if he can fix these TITAN's. LOL.
(actually I am serious)

Bill


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## milkyspit (Sep 4, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Scott may end up making a $1,000,000 if he can fix these TITAN's. LOL.
> (actually I am serious)
> 
> Bill



Uh... it's always nice to feed the kids (and the way they've been eating lately it might take about that much), but let's not get ahead of things... I'm still working on getting in without damaging the host. :sweat:


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## DaFABRICATA (Sep 5, 2009)

I have been able to get the driver to start to move away from the legs, but there are 3 boards to go through...How the HECK do I heat the legs once it gets to the other 2 boards?

I want to punch Surefire in the face for selling these expensive lights with shitty emitters that aren't focused correctly.....What a freaking joke!!

SF...Get your poop together!!

Scott any progress to report?


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## DimeRazorback (Sep 5, 2009)

That's probably why they have just been replacing the ones that people complain about with a new one... too hard to fix anything


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## tobrien (Jul 27, 2013)

knowing this thread is about four years old, how is Titan modding coming? Milkyspit did you ever find anything?


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## cy (Aug 2, 2013)

my Titan has been dead for while waiting for me to send back to Surefire
so would be nice to upgrade LED while they are in there


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## AzGB (Aug 2, 2013)

cy said:


> my Titan has been dead for while waiting for me to send back to Surefire
> so would be nice to upgrade LED while they are in there



Same here. I have two original titanium T1's that are dead as well as a newer T1A that need to be sent back for repairs. Just need to remember to get an RMA and actually do it.


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## RobertM (Aug 3, 2013)

When you guys says that your T1's or T1A's are dead, what's going on with them? Simply won't turn on at all?


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## AzGB (Aug 3, 2013)

RobertM said:


> When you guys says that your T1's or T1A's are dead, what's going on with them? Simply won't turn on at all?



Erratic switch behavior. Like, if off is zero, and high is 100, and I have entire ranges of numbers missing, a dozen or so at a time.


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## Kilovolt (Aug 3, 2013)

Both of mine, Titan & T1A are still working well.


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## faco (Aug 3, 2013)

I had a LE Titanium Titan and that worked perfectly as well. Sold it recently to fund other items


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## kaichu dento (Aug 6, 2013)

cy said:


> my Titan has been dead for while waiting for me to send back to Surefire
> so would be nice to upgrade LED while they are in there


I had good, quick results when I sent my Titan's back to Surefire, and since the most recent repair, no more problems.

Definitely an enjoyable light to use, even compared to the newer and more powerful options now available.


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## cy (Aug 14, 2013)

kaichu dento said:


> I had good, quick results when I sent my Titan's back to Surefire, and since the most recent repair, no more problems.
> 
> Definitely an enjoyable light to use, even compared to the newer and more powerful options now available.



did you get back your original titan? be nice if they offered an LED upgrade option?


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## kaichu dento (Aug 15, 2013)

cy said:


> did you get back your original titan? be nice if they offered an LED upgrade option?


I think I got the whole original light back once and the second time the head had been changed. Serial number was not affected.

On topic of the emitter, I almost had mine changed a couple years ago, but have decided I love it as is.


----------

