# NITECORE EC4 Review (2x18650,1050Lm,XM-L2)



## FlashLion (Jul 9, 2015)

The EC4 is a new flashlight from Nitecore's Explorer series lights.
It comes with new ideas for body design and manufacturing. The EC4 is the first flashlight which is manufactured by Die-Cast process,allowing higher standards for density of the aluminum body and heat transfer efficiency.
According to Nitecore the new EC4 is-
200% the strength of an ordinary flashlight that consists of 3 separate parts;
The strength of the Die-cast aluminum body is allowing smaller dimension of the flashlight,respectively less weight.
Better cooling performance,thanks to the Uni-body aluminum construction.

Nitecore EC4 is powered by two 18650 batteries,side by side,electrically connected in series(or 4 CR123A).



For a better functionality,the EC4 is equipped with a standard 1/4" tripod mount point.
The big ring is actually the screw which does lock the tailcap in place.



Another novelty is the external finish of the aluminum.
Only the tail-cap screw is anodized.The rest of the body is Stoving-Varnish treated.
The surface is black/dark grey color,noticeably matte finish.
According to Nitecore,this type finish has great parameters for wear,corrosion,chemical resistance,impact resistance and hardness.
I can't comment on these points,because I don't do this type of tests.




18 cooling fins (nine on each side) ensure high heat transfer from the LED to the ambient air.
Unlike any other flashlight,here all of the cooling fins are positioned alongside the head.




Comfortable grip. There's no much grooves,or knurling,but thanks to its shape with flattened sides,the EC4 is easy to stably hold in the hand.




Size comparison-Left to Right
Nitecore EC4, Nitecore SRT6, ThruNite Lynx, Olight M22, Klarus XT11(2014)
The EC4 and the M22 have identical head diameter.
(Hint-the M22's diffuser fits perfectly on the EC4's head) 




Weight with batteries:
Nitecore EC4 260 gr
Nitecore SRT6 197 gr
ThruNite Lynx 257 gr
Olight M22 193 gr
Klarus XT11 186 gr

















Standard for Nitecore carton box.
All important info printed on it.



Really interesting and appreciated is the sectional view of the flashlight.
Great chance to learn what parts contains the EC4 and how they are assembled. 



Accessories- good holster and lanyard.
You will find also well written user manual and warranty card.




The holster is big enough for the EC4.There is a velcro tape on the back.
The flashlight can be inserted in both directions(head or tail down).




Matte stainless steel bezel.Not crenelated,which makes it more friendly for pocket carrying.








Ultra clear glass lens-toughened mineral glass with anti-reflective coating for good light transmittance.
Cree XM-L2 U2 LED. Perfectly centered.
A specially designed aluminum reflector with smooth reflective surface.


 

The glass lens is very clean and transparent.



Anti-reflective coating in purple color.







Lets take a closer look at the Dual switch.
Two electronic push buttons with a silicon cap,separated in two zones by a small bridge.
The button with the four lines is for mode selecting. The other is for ON/OFF,as both of the switches have additional,hidden functions-directly activating Turbo,UltraLow and Strobe mode.

*User Interface*

I am impressed of the user interface and operation with the dual switch.
This is the best user interface I've tested and suits my way of using the flashlight,just perfectly.

Five brightness levels,plus 3 flashing modes.
Clicking the ON/OFF button activates/deactivates the light. Press and hold it for a second to activate Moonlight mode,directly from Off.
If you press and hold it,while the light is ON,this will activate the Blue indicator light under the button.Will turn the light Off,as well. 
There is no memory for the indicator light. If you need the indicator light for easier locating the flashlight,you have to activate it manually,every time. 



 


Click on the right picture to see the full user manual that comes with the flashlight.

The second switch(with the four lines) is for mode selecting.
Press it to select among UltraLow-Low-Mid-High-Turbo modes,while the light is ON.
Press and hold it to activate Strobe mode. Press and hold again to activate Beacon and again to activate SOS mode.
Short press will return the constant light mode.
If you press and hold the switch for a second,while the light is OFF,this will activate Turbo mode directly.
Double click(the mode switch) starts Strobe mode immediately from OFF.

There is memory for the last used mode,except the 3 flashing modes.
The mode memory is extremely quick and does not require any special timings for ON/OFF to make it work.
If you leave it on High mode,it will start on High mode,no matter how quickly will turn it ON/OFF. 

The UI is quite easy to remember and use. I did not find any trouble using it in real life situations.
Quick and accurate response from the driver.

There is one more function of the mode switch. If you press it briefly,while the light is OFF,the blue indicator light will show the level of the batteries by simple blinking.
Three flashes indicates battery voltage over 50%.
Two indicates battery voltage below 50%.
One flash means the batteries need to be replaced.

There is also switch locking option. Press and hold both switches together,for over one second to turn the light Off and lock the switches.
To unlock,press and hold both switches again,for over one second.




I feel the switches well in my hand.Easy access to both switches.
My fingers are thin,though and in my opinion people with bigger fingers may find the buttons smaller than needed and also may have to press them with a nail. The buttons are almost on the same level with the aluminum around them.
The separating bridge works well for me and I am pressing the right switch every time when I have to.




A closer look.








A closer look at the Stoving-varnish finish and the grooves forming squares.




The cooling fins. You can see how smooth are all edges thanks to the die-cast process of making the flashlight's body.



All edges at the tail are very smooth,well rounded,too.
Good care to detail.




A thick rubber(probably silicone) gasket ensures excellent water-resistant sealing.


 





The EC4 can tail-stand not only on a table.It can be quite stable on different surfaces.
There is no protruding switch at the tail.







The thick ring at the tail end is a big screw. You can see the threads at both sides of the battery tube.
There are threads only on the surface between the batteries.




Two protected batteries fit pretty well in length and width.
No battery carrier.








Great care to the electric part of the flashlight.
Each of the two springs is doubled by a second,smaller spring.This ensures higher efficiency thanks to less losses in the springs(less resistance,easier current flow).




The driver board.
There is a physical reverse polarity protection. Flat top batteries can't be used directly.
There are stickers showing the right direction for inserting the batteries.




A very close look at the thick sealing rubber gasket. 















Smooth aluminum reflector. Cree XM-L2 U2 LED.
1050 Lumens max output. 26000cd peak beam intensity.*(30 000cd,measured by me at 3 meters)*




The light from the EC4 is clean Cool white light,with no visible greenish or bluish tint.
The beam profile consists clearly defined hotspot and corona with good smooth spill. 
As almost any actual flashlight,a smooth reflector is used for better focusing the light,aiming maximum distance of throw.
This sacrifices some of the beam smoothness,but beam is still quite good in normal use(not on a white wall). 





*Run-time Performance*

Thanks to the dual battery design resulting in high total voltage, Nitecore EC4 performs impressively well.
Two 18650 batteries in series(or 4xCR123A) provides enough energy for stable output.
The output on all modes is constant,even on Turbo mode. 
Unlike the single cell flashlights,the EC4's Turbo mode comes on the same output after every restart.

I did a few tests with different batteries.
*I tested the output on* *Turbo mode*,while the flashlight was cooled by small 8cm fan and also without cooling fan.
Room temperature ~25 degrees Celsius.

Three tests-With the cooling Fan on max airflow,with the Fan on very Low rpm,with no cooling.
According to Nitecore,the EC4 features Advance Temperature Regulation.
Unfortunately,I did not manage to activate it,or at least I don't see it,as I expected to be.

With maximum air cooling(simulating using the flashlight at places with cold climate,or in the cold seasons),the EC4 performs impressively.
The output starts from *1140* Lumens. *30* seconds later the output is *1067* Lumens.
The EC4 is maintaining just over *1000* lumens,through the whole battery discharge.
Checking the flashlight for overheating,I was impressed to find that the EC4 stays cool,even at this high output.

The second test with minimum air cooling,shows similar performance.The same time of discharge *98* minutes,nearly constant output.
Just 10 or 20 lumens less at some moments,due to more heating.
During the test the EC4 was warm,but not too hot.

The third test was especially to test the ATR temperature control. No any kind of cooling was used. Static flashlight pointed at the light sphere.
I expected some kind of gradual step down as seen in the headlamp HC50,but here such step down does not exist.
The flashlight got very hot and I stopped the test after 10 minutes to prevent overheating. Lumen output *975* lumens at the tenth minute.
The flashlight may resist the heat,but it's recommended to keep the temperature of the batteries in normal range.

*Batteries used in the tests- Keeppower 3100mAh,protected.*
(Low voltage protection tests- Keeppower 3100mAh, Sanyo 2600mAh protected)





Only the first 15 minutes




*My lumen measurements:*
Fully charged Keeppower 3100 batteries.No cooling.
30 seconds after activation.

Turbo 1050 Lm
High 600 Lm
Mid 280 Lm
Low 114 Lm
UltraLow 1 Lm

Pretty well spaced brightness levels. A 50 lumen mode would be also useful,but one more mode may overload the UI.

I don't detect any sign of PWM on any of the modes,with the oscilloscope I use.
*But,after using the flashlight for some more time*,I can detect some noise(not sound) in the light on UltraLow and Low when watching a PC cooling fan. I can't confirm this is a PWM,because the oscilloscope,just doesn't see it. It's definitely not the usual pwm,maybe more advanced one,combining multiple signals... I don't have enough knowledge in electronics,so better not trying to guess...
The flickering should not be visible in normal use.

The Nitecore EC4 features also a Low voltage protection. To be sure it will kick in on time,the two batteries must have identical voltage.
If not,the low voltage protection of the battery with the lower voltage will kick in,before the EC4's LV protection.
In my tests,the EC4 did not show any indication by the blue indicator light,or by flashing main light,that the batteries are empty.
The low voltage protection turned off the light without any warning.

I did not test with unprotected batteries. I prefer to use protected batteries,for a little more safety, also recommend using protected batteries,especially in this flashlight.

Thanks to the efficient driver electronics and dual battery power source,the current draw on Turbo mode is just 1,7 Amp. High drain batteries are not needed for a good output. Any battery with a quality cell should be fine.

Nitecore EC4 has only electronic switches.There is no physical switch to fully disconnect the power to the driver circuit. When OFF,the flashlight is actually in Standby mode,which takes ~350µA from the batteries. This value is much higher than the value in all other flashlights I've tested. If you plan not to use the EC4 for very long time,it's recommended to take out the batteries,preventing over-discharging. Lock out the tailcap is not possible.


*Beam shots*

1 meter, 1/20sec




















1 meter, 1/250sec











5 meters
1/6sec
















5 meters
1/50sec












The Nitecore EC4 covers most of my expectations.
There are only a few weak points that could be improved in future models.
I found the EC4 quite comfortable in use,great constant output,good beam,fantastic user interface.
All these things makes the EC4 one of the best flashlights I have tested/reviewed and it definitely will become one of my most used lights. 
The tripod mount thread makes it a good choice for a camping light,home work,or any other repair work.

*Strong points-* Build quality;Fresh ideas in the design; Tail-stand possible; Tripod mount option; Great fit in hand; High maximum brightness; Constant output on all modes;Well spaced modes; Great user interface; Quick access to Turbo,UltraLow and Strobe; Instant mode memory; High efficient driver; Deep smooth reflector results in great distance of throw; Impressively well maintaining the heat,while using on Turbo mode in cool ambient temperature; 

*Weak points-*The dual switch may be uncomfortable for people with big fingers(depending on the way of pressing it); No output step down to prevent overheating; No indicator warning while the batteries are empty; Very high Standby current consumption; No tailcap lock-out option;The finish just does not look as good as quality anodization; 

*Thanks for reading!*
Hope you found my review quite informative and helpful.
If you like my work,please post a comment below.Your feedback is always highly appreciated.

*-* *Thanks to Nitecore for providing the EC4 for test and review!* -





Reserved for corrections and additional info.


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## markr6 (Jul 9, 2015)

Thanks for the review. ~350µA standby  I'm really waiting for the EC4S, and can only assume it's just as bad. I wonder how much is consumed when locked out via the switches? I see the manual says it's functional for over 12 months in this state. I have their TM16 coming which says only 6 months! That worries me, but I'll just have to try and see.


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## Overclocker (Jul 9, 2015)

we don't need a 2x 18650 that puts out 1000 lumens. what we need is a 2x AA die-cast side-by-side that's really compact


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## chuckhov (Jul 9, 2015)

+! to the 2xAA side by side!!!

Thanks!
-Chuck


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## holygeez03 (Jul 9, 2015)

That would be interesting to see what could be pulled off with 2xAA and modern tech.


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## FlashLion (Jul 9, 2015)

markr6 said:


> Thanks for the review. ~350µA standby  I'm really waiting for the EC4S, and can only assume it's just as bad. I wonder how much is consumed when locked out via the switches? I see the manual says it's functional for over 12 months in this state. I have their TM16 coming which says only 6 months! That worries me, but I'll just have to try and see.


What I can measure is still 350µA after electronic lock.


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## LessDark (Jul 9, 2015)

Thanks for the great review. It looks like a great sturdy light, though I think the star will be the MT-G2 version. 
A bit worrying if the overheating issue remains in the coming version as well, as I assume the bigger LED will produce a lot more heat...


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## markr6 (Jul 9, 2015)

FlashLion said:


> What I can measure is still 350µA after electronic lock.




Ouch! OK thanks for confirming that.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jul 9, 2015)

Perhaps you can talk with NiteCore, and ask about the temperature compensation experience you had with no fan cooling. Was it not functioning or do you think it is set for too high a temperature?

Can you elaborate why you think the finish does not look as nice as an anodized finish?

Great Review, great photos, slick GIF's. Thanks aplenty for showing the gasket.


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## BowHunter1 (Jul 10, 2015)

Great indepth review!! Much appreciated as I too am waiting to see the EC4S version.....


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## FlashLion (Jul 10, 2015)

*Thank you all for the comments!*

Hopefully,they will make happy also the AA battery users and will release an AA version of this model in the future.



KITROBASKIN said:


> Perhaps you can talk with NiteCore, and ask about the temperature compensation experience you had with no fan cooling. Was it not functioning or do you think it is set for too high a temperature?
> 
> Can you elaborate why you think the finish does not look as nice as an anodized finish?
> 
> Great Review, great photos, slick GIF's. Thanks aplenty for showing the gasket.



Thanks KITROBASKIN for commenting!
I already contacted Nitecore,but they can't give me high detailed information. The info is just-the EC4's driver will regulate the output depending on the temperature.
I suspect,that the temperature control is set to trigger at higher temperature than I expect. In my opinion the flashlight was quite hot after 10 minutes and as I wrote in the review,I don't like to heat Li-Ion batteries too much,no matter how high quality they are(this will shorten their life).
The finish on my sample has some spots/zones,that are not so matte as the rest of the finish(not sure,if my sample is a test sample,already used,or a new regular one).


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## shipwreck (Jul 10, 2015)

Terrific review. As others stated - thanks!


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## olemil (Jul 11, 2015)

Great review and thank you!! Very tempted to try one of these, not that I really need another light sitting on the shelf . The switch looks a lot like the EA41 which I already have and love by the way. Only thing that I may have a concern about is the partial threads in the body for the tailcap. I'm sure they will be fine for the life of the light but just my concern. Guess it would be worth a try especially since I have 4 brand new 3400mah Orbtronics sitting in my flashlight supply drawer and GG has 20% off this weekend on nitecore. :thumbsup:


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## zs&tas (Jul 13, 2015)

So nitecore go on about the die cast and efficiency of heat transfer and the light remains comfortable, but it actually gets really hot ? Dont get me wrong I love the light and am waiting for the s version I really want. Just annoys me thats all ! 
The only down side I can see is the lack of full tail threads, how easy is it to get the tail threads lined up and spining? Any difficulties ? 

 best review and pics :twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs


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## photonmaster (Jul 13, 2015)

Interesting light. Good to see some genuinely new ideas. My concern would be the silicone switch cover, those often end up burst over time. Tempting light though, looks good.

Fantastic review, thanks very much.


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## FlashLion (Jul 13, 2015)

*Thanks for the comments!*



zs&tas said:


> So nitecore go on about the die cast and efficiency of heat transfer and the light remains comfortable, but it actually gets really hot ? Dont get me wrong I love the light and am waiting for the s version I really want. Just annoys me thats all !
> The only down side I can see is the lack of full tail threads, how easy is it to get the tail threads lined up and spining? Any difficulties ?
> 
> best review and pics :twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs


Thanks
The advantage of the Die-Cast aluminum is mostly the strength of the body,because it's a whole part without mechanical connection at the head,etc.
I also expected some trouble,but I did not find any,while screwing/unscrewing the tailcap. The side plates with the Nitecore logo have the purpose to keep the tailcap in line,while attaching.
The better heat transfer means,that the heat will disperse throughout the body faster,keeping the LED a little cooler. Thanks to the unibody construction,the heat will not stay mostly in the head.The battery tube and tail will get also part of the heat faster,allowing lower temperature at the head.This means of course,that the tail end will be warmer.
The EC4 is still a compact flashlight and don't have enough mass to manage all the heat from a 1000 lumen output,continuously in warm ambient temperature,without cooling it(without moving it,so air can flow through the cooling fins,or just used in cold weather). 
Now,the manufacturer decides,when to come the thermal or timed output step-down.
If the flashlight gets too hot and a step down is not visible,I recommend switching to a lower output. 




photonmaster said:


> Interesting light. Good to see some genuinely new ideas. My concern would be the silicone switch cover, those often end up burst over time. Tempting light though, looks good.
> 
> Fantastic review, thanks very much.


Thanks for reading!
The switch cover is fairly soft on touch.I don't know what is the thickness of the cover.Pressing it with nails,may be a bad idea in long term of use.


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## WarRaven (Jul 13, 2015)

I would have thought die casting allowed for shapes not easily milled and offer poor thermal conductivity due to impurities of said material.
It certainly is not stronger then milled.

Does anyone have any information of its heat transfer capability beyond my speculation?


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## FlashLion (Jul 13, 2015)

If the aluminum is cast under high pressure,it will have better density and higher strength(high pressure is the key word).
If the element is milled from a die-cast aluminum,may not have difference...


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## WarRaven (Jul 13, 2015)

FlashLion said:


> If the aluminum is cast under high pressure,it will have better density and higher strength(high pressure is the key word).
> If the element is milled from a die-cast aluminum,may not have difference...


It's sintered, do you know?


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## FlashLion (Jul 13, 2015)

I am not very familiar with machining,manufacturing aluminum flashlights or any other products,so I use the provided technical information about the product.
We can't give a clear answer about the EC4 specifications,as long as we can test and compare it to other products.

*EDIT*
Rereading again the whole information on the Nitecore's website,they really not said anywhere that the die-cast aluminum is stronger. Actually the regular aluminum flashlight may be machined of the same die-cast processed aluminum.
The strength comes from the unibody construction,which allows less mechanical connections and making the body at once.
Corrected one of my previous posts,about the threads.

Several quotes from their website.
"A seamless structure means that heat generated by the working LED is delivered evenly and rapidly to the overall surface." 
"Eliminates redundant elements like battery compartment and fasteners between the head and the body."
"Test results showed that this novel model has 200% the strength of an ordinary flashlight that consists of 3 separate parts."
"It is a casting method by injecting molten aluminum under high pressure into mold cavity, which involves no separate parts welded or fastened together."


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## WarRaven (Jul 13, 2015)

Right on, thank you for that Flashlion.

I just hope it does not behave like other cast items when changing thermally. I'm not saying anything, just thinking out loud.

Again thank you.


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## zs&tas (Jul 13, 2015)

Thanks flash, good to hear the tail threads and system work well, and thanks for reminding me it is still a compact light with limited mass.


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## FlashLion (Jul 20, 2015)

Some outdoor beamshots.Enjoy!
Three flashlights with pretty similar throw.

10000 ISO,because of the huge amount of insects,flying around.
Distance ~75 meters














...and something even more interesting.
I call it...FlyPainting


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## Parrot Quack (Jul 20, 2015)

Flashlion. That's a lot of effort you put forth to complete your EC4 review. Thank-you for all your effort. Very nice, very professional. Thanks again.


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## FlashLion (Jul 21, 2015)

Parrot Quack said:


> Flashlion. That's a lot of effort you put forth to complete your EC4 review. Thank-you for all your effort. Very nice, very professional. Thanks again.


Thanks *Parrot Quack*. Glad to see it's appreciated.


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## WarRaven (Jul 21, 2015)

FlashLion said:


> Thanks *Parrot Quack*. Glad to see it's appreciated.



Very much so FL.

+1


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## texas cop (Jul 21, 2015)

Nice review thank you for the time and effort. I received mine about a few days ago. It feels so light that I wish it had a little more mass. Still an ideal light for those who need a light with longer run time and still be compact enough to carry in a pocket. I also wanted the MT-G2 version, that'll come out soon enough. Nitecore if your readings these reviews would you consider the Cree XHP-35 for this compact light.


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## FlashLion (Jul 22, 2015)

Thanks _*WarRaven*_!

Thanks for reading _*texas cop*_!
It's great to see a good,handy flashlight,coming with different emitters. Will be great,if they equip the EC4 with a neutral white XM-L2,too.
I will probably not test the MT-G2 version,but I am very interested to see the beam pattern.


texas cop said:


> Nice review thank you for the time and effort. I received mine about a few days ago. It feels so light that I wish it had a little more mass. Still an ideal light for those who need a light with longer run time and still be compact enough to carry in a pocket. I also wanted the MT-G2 version, that'll come out soon enough. Nitecore if your readings these reviews would you consider the Cree XHP-35 for this compact light.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 22, 2015)

Thanks for posting this review. The design of the light looks to be more rounded and comfortable to hold than the TK35. It also looks significantly smaller and more minimalistic which I like. Not sure about the UI though, it just seems a little complicated. The high parasitic drain seems to be the killer, although I've found that standby current can vary hugely between 2 lights of the same model.


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## Parrot Quack (Jul 22, 2015)

monkeyboy said:


> The high parasitic drain seems to be the killer, although I've found that standby current can vary hugely between 2 lights of the same model.



Out of curiosity, why do people worry about a bit of parasitic drain?

The reason I ask? How do I deal with issues of this kind? I charge a battery, place it into service and use the light and when needed, I swap out the battery for a freshly charged battery. I know I'm overly simplifying things and I'm sure that's why I don't understand.

What am I missing?


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## scs (Jul 22, 2015)

Parrot Quack said:


> Out of curiosity, why do people worry about a bit of parasitic drain?
> 
> The reason I ask? How do I deal with issues of this kind? I charge a battery, place it into service and use the light and when needed, I swap out the battery for a freshly charged battery. I know I'm overly simplifying things and I'm sure that's why I don't understand.
> 
> What am I missing?



Imagine bills are simply disappearing from your wallet faster than you're actually spending them...
Parasitic drain is not a problem only if it is less than the rate of self-discharge of the cell(s).


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## Parrot Quack (Jul 22, 2015)

scs said:


> Imagine bills are simply disappearing from your wallet faster than you're actually spending them...
> Parasitic drain is not a problem only if it is less than the rate of self-discharge of the cell(s).



I appreciate the above effort but to me, obviously, I'm still missing something. Aren't we suppose to keep pre-charged batteries around that are periodically checked and if in an isolated incident (night-hiking) where the light is expected to experience heavy usage, carry a fresh, spare set of batteries that prior to departure, have been inspected?

When a storm is coming, which I think has the potential to knock out the power, all lights are expected to have their batteries checked while we still have power.

What does it seem that I'm still missing? Is it because I'm a battery nerd? Is it regarding my personal expectations of semi-regularly monitoring each of the batteries' charged condition? Are my expectations flat out unrealistic?


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## thedoc007 (Jul 22, 2015)

Parrot Quack said:


> I appreciate the above effort but to me, obviously, I'm still missing something. Aren't we suppose to keep pre-charged batteries around that are periodically checked and if in an isolated incident (night-hiking) where the light is expected to experience heavy usage, carry a fresh, spare set of batteries that have been inspected prior to departure?
> 
> When a storm is coming, which I think has the potential to knock out the power, all lights are expected to have their batteries checked while we still have power.
> 
> What does it seem that I'm still missing? Is it because I'm a battery nerd? Is it regarding the semi-regular monitoring of each of the batteries' charged condition? Are my expectations flat out unrealistic?



If you are willing to deal with that, then for you there may not be a problem. I prefer my batteries to be discharged only when I am actually using the light, so I KNOW roughly how much capacity is left based on how long I have been using it. A few micro-amps is not a big deal, but if it is much higher than that, it is definitely an issue. Partly it means poor engineering...there is no reason why the drain should be so high when nothing is happening. And partly it is the hassle of having to check and top off cells every so often, rather than just storing it until ready for use.

It isn't a HUGE deal unless drain is very high...but I don't like rewarding sloppy design. It isn't a deal-breaker in and of itself (usually), but if there is a similar light with little or no standby drain, I would always prefer that.


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## KeepingItLight (Jul 23, 2015)

Parrot Quack said:


> What does it seem that I'm still missing?



Nothing, at least as far as your own usage is concerned. Doc seems to concur.



thedoc007 said:


> If you are willing to deal with that, then for you there may not be a problem.



I also agree with Doc's explanation of why it is a problem for him. Different strokes for different folks.

Here is another thing to consider. If 1000 people have flashlights with high standby drains, we know ahead of time, statistically speaking, that some of them will get caught with low batteries when the lights go out. This is not a good thing, especially when you factor in what Doc pointed out. The whole problem is unnecessary. Better engineering would eliminate it.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 23, 2015)

Parrot Quack said:


> Out of curiosity, why do people worry about a bit of parasitic drain?
> 
> The reason I ask? How do I deal with issues of this kind? I charge a battery, place it into service and use the light and when needed, I swap out the battery for a freshly charged battery. I know I'm overly simplifying things and I'm sure that's why I don't understand.
> 
> What am I missing?



It depends on how you're going to be using the light. If you leave the batteries in the light for a few months without charging, you end up with only half the capacity. If you accidentally forget about it and leave it longer, it will drain your li-ion cells to below a safe storage level which will permanently damage them. You always have to remember to remove the batteries when you won't be using the light for a while. This is not something you need to worry about with a mechanical switch.


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## thomas_sti_red (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks for interesting review.
I'm in the market for a 2x 18650 but not convinced by this one: no temp. control, no tail lockout.


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## Parrot Quack (Jul 23, 2015)

monkeyboy said:


> It depends on how you're going to be using the light. If you leave the batteries in the light for a few months without charging, you end up with only half the capacity. If you accidentally forget about it and leave it longer, it will drain your li-ion cells to below a safe storage level which will permanently damage them. You always have to remember to remove the batteries when you won't be using the light for a while. This is not something you need to worry about with a mechanical switch.



Thanks for the effort at elucidating me regarding parasitic drain.

I think I got it. Parasitic drain bad. Ignorance is bliss. And finally, sitting around and monitoring batteries is an unneeded PITA.


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## FlashLion (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks all,for the great discussion!

The higher standby current should not be a problem,if the flashlight is meant for everyday use. Any of the modes drain much more current and you will see no difference losing some microAmps. 
Flashlights with high standby drain are *not* suited for storing in long periods,without use and without preparing the batteries. For example,if you need it in case of power outage,but don't know when/if it could happen.The best light in this case is a flashlight with physical switch.
Please note,that even checking the flashlight for proper operation(_threads may be dirty,or loose tailcap retaining ring-I have this problem twice with a flashlight from another brand.It just stopped working when I needed.._), even by switching it On for a few seconds,will drain much more current from the batteries,than the standby parasitic drain.So,if you want to keep the batteries,you don't have to check the flashlight until you need it for something really serious.


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## fnj (Jul 24, 2015)

I think the reason some of us object to high parasitic drain is because it is the mark of incompetent design. Quality designs such as HDS and ZebraLight, even though they have always-live functionality, do not suffer from it because they have people who know what they are doing handling the design of the electronics and the programming.

As someone with some experience with micropower standby programming in embedded microprocessors, I can tell you that proper selection of embedded microprocessor hardware, plus efficient programming, takes experience, know-how, and care.


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## WarRaven (Jul 24, 2015)

FlashLion said:


> Thanks all,for the great discussion!
> 
> The higher standby current should not be a problem,if the flashlight is meant for everyday use. Any of the modes drain much more current and you will see no difference losing some microAmps.
> Flashlights with high standby drain are not suited for storing in long periods,without use and without preparing the batteries. For example,if you need it in case of power outage,but don't know when/if it could happen.The best light in this case is a flashlight with physical switch.
> Please note,that even checking the flashlight for proper operation,by switching it On for a few seconds,on any of the modes will drain much more current from the batteries,than the standby parasitic drain.So,if you want to keep the batteries,you don't have to check the flashlight until you need it.


Almost sounds like a cat in a box theory, is it alive or?


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## FlashLion (Jul 24, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Almost sounds like a cat in a box theory, is it alive or?


Sorry WarRaven,can't understand the joke.


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## Parrot Quack (Jul 24, 2015)

You can't tell until you open the box.


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## FlashLion (Jul 24, 2015)

fnj said:


> I think the reason some of us object to high parasitic drain is because it is the mark of incompetent design. Quality designs such as HDS and ZebraLight, even though they have always-live functionality, do not suffer from it because they have people who know what they are doing handling the design of the electronics and the programming.
> 
> As someone with some experience with micropower standby programming in embedded microprocessors, I can tell you that proper selection of embedded microprocessor hardware, plus efficient programming, takes experience, know-how, and care.


Thanks for the input.
I don't have any experience with programing microprocessors. Does the quality of the electronics affect the standby consumption? HDS and Zebralight are in different price zone and maybe they use electronic components with different efficiency. Just guessing.


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## WarRaven (Jul 24, 2015)

FlashLion said:


> Sorry WarRaven,can't understand the joke.


I'm so sorry, the cat I refer too is the early beginning of quantum mechanics..
Schrodingers cat in box believed to be alive as long as there's no radioactive decay, which you can't see, so is it alive, or has it died, can't tell unless you open box.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger's_cat

Are batteries in light OK or not, can't tell unless you check which uses power, and in the joke, kills cat opening box, or eating batteries to verify. 
My bad for stringing these two together.

WR


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## xevious (Aug 18, 2015)

I presume the parasitic drain is due to the switch design. There aren't too many of these multi-button switches around at this point, so it may take a couple of versions to improve efficiency... unless another company has already done it and Nitecore was just too quick to release this model.

What kills it for me is no battery lockout (no way to break battery contact, like a screw cap). It would not only be useful for mitigating parasitic drain, it would help alleviate having to remove batteries when packing. The buttons as they are designed could be accidentally pressed.

I love the concept and design, but I'm going to wait for Nitecore to address these concerns.


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## Timothybil (Aug 19, 2015)

xevious said:


> What kills it for me is no battery lockout (no way to break battery contact, like a screw cap). It would not only be useful for mitigating parasitic drain, it would help alleviate having to remove batteries when packing. The buttons as they are designed could be accidentally pressed.


There is an electronic lockout. Press and hold both buttons at the same time when the light is on and the light will turn off and the switches are electronically locked out until one does the press and hold to turn the lockout off again. Doesn't stop the standby drain, but does keep from accidental turn ons.


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## sidecross (Aug 19, 2015)

This light, Nitecore EC4, is now my replacement for my Eagletac G25C2 Mark ll. I change out 18650 3400mAh quite often so I am not concerned about the quite small ‘stand by’ current use.

The fact that it uses two 18650 batteries make the standby current problem a small deceit when the added power reserve is calculated to the equation.

Flashlights that are stored and not used until an emergency are the only reason why standby current draw night be a problem.


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## texas cop (Sep 6, 2015)

So I've been using the light a lot since I received it. Batteries were at 3.4 volts, using Panasonic 3400's. I didn't think it had that much use so I charged the batteries then measured the standby current. I'm getting around 600µA. That's way too high even to just let sit around for any length of time. I love the light but this kills its usability.


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## FlashLion (Sep 7, 2015)

texas cop said:


> So I've been using the light a lot since I received it. Batteries were at 3.4 volts, using Panasonic 3400's. I didn't think it had that much use so I charged the batteries then measured the standby current. I'm getting around 600µA. That's way too high even to just let sit around for any length of time. I love the light but this kills its usability.


I measure ~350µA with fresh Sanyo 2600,or Keepower 3400.
If you trust your DMM,probably the flashlight is defective. Ask for replacement.


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## markr6 (Sep 8, 2015)

FlashLion said:


> I measure ~350µA with fresh Sanyo 2600,or Keepower 3400.
> If you trust your DMM,probably the flashlight is defective. Ask for replacement.



350µA, well that's not a deal breaker for me but still a concern. *250mA lost after a month* if my math is correct. Not the end of the world I guess.


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## S3MKi (Sep 9, 2015)

flypainting is awesome! i have ec4s


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## billcushman (Sep 10, 2015)

markr6 said:


> 350µA, well that's not a deal breaker for me but still a concern. *250mA lost after a month* if my math is correct. Not the end of the world I guess.



Measured the drain on my Nitecore EC4 using a Fluke 289 high accuracy DVM. My idle current was 731㎂. This value is very high but I repeated the measurement on several different days. In about 2 months, fully charged Olight 3400 batteries were down to about 3.6 volts. The light appears to work correctly in all functions and was ordered immediately after it was introduced.


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## sidecross (Sep 10, 2015)

billcushman said:


> Measured the drain on my Nitecore EC4 using a Fluke 289 high accuracy DVM. My idle current was 731㎂. This value is very high but I repeated the measurement on several different days. In about 2 months, fully charged Olight 3400 batteries were down to about 3.6 volts. The light appears to work correctly in all functions and was ordered immediately after it was introduced.



I use my EC4 as my everyday light and rotate Keeppower 3400mAh batteries every two weeks. This is not a problem for me, but this would not be a good light for a long term stored light with batteries installed.


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## WarRaven (Sep 10, 2015)

billcushman said:


> Measured the drain on my Nitecore EC4 using a Fluke 289 high accuracy DVM. My idle current was 731㎂. This value is very high but I repeated the measurement on several different days. In about 2 months, fully charged Olight 3400 batteries were down to about 3.6 volts. The light appears to work correctly in all functions and was ordered immediately after it was introduced.


Two months?
Holly cow.

I lock out or remove myself so, glad I'm OK with my habit.
Still, it'd weigh on my mind it's using juice I want to use and would be on charger more. 
I could live with it for the price but look forward to getting past these things down the road from OEM.


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## teacher (Sep 10, 2015)

BowHunter1 said:


> Great indepth review!! Much appreciated as I too am waiting to see the EC4S version.....


Amen, great review.... thank you!! :thumbsup:
I got one about 3 weeks ago and am very impressed with it. Your review is spot on. 
I too am looking forward to the EC4S version.


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## FlashLion (Sep 10, 2015)

teacher said:


> Amen, great review.... thank you!! :thumbsup:
> I got one about 3 weeks ago and am very impressed with it. Your review is spot on.
> I too am looking forward to the EC4S version.


Thanks for reading!
Take a look at my EC4S preview on my blog- http://flashlionreviews.blogspot.bg/2015/09/nitecore-ec4s-preiew-xhp-50-led2x18650.html
Full review will be posted soon.


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## akhyar (Sep 10, 2015)

FlashLion said:


> Thanks for reading!
> Take a look at my EC4S preview on my blog- http://flashlionreviews.blogspot.bg/2015/09/nitecore-ec4s-preiew-xhp-50-led2x18650.html
> Full review will be posted soon.



Do you have any insider information when will Nitecore release the EC4S?
This suspense is killing me... lol!


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## FlashLion (Sep 10, 2015)

akhyar said:


> Do you have any insider information when will Nitecore release the EC4S?
> This suspense is killing me... lol!


Sorry,I don't have any information.


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## markr6 (Sep 10, 2015)

I asked Nitecore where to get EC4S, again, and got another BS answer: "_Local Distributor!_"

Oh OK, I'll just stroll down to my neighborhood flashlight shop since they're on every corner and pick on up. PPpfft


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## selis (Oct 2, 2015)

Very nice review. The EC4 looks very powerfull!!!


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## Parrot Quack (Oct 5, 2015)

markr6 said:


> I asked Nitecore where to get EC4S, again, and got another BS answer: "_Local Distributor!_"
> 
> Oh OK, I'll just stroll down to my neighborhood flashlight shop since they're on every corner and pick on up. PPpfft



I already have one that came from Amazon.


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## markr6 (Oct 5, 2015)

Parrot Quack said:


> I already have one that came from Amazon.



Yes that was an old post of mine from almost a month ago.

My EC4S from Amazon just arrived! Got two "free" batteries with mine if you consider the price vs others that were the same.


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## Parrot Quack (Oct 5, 2015)

Congratulations on both the light and the batteries. :twothumbs

Have you had a chance to compare the light with other lights? What's your opinion of the EC4S vs the EC4?


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## markr6 (Oct 5, 2015)

Parrot Quack said:


> Congratulations on both the light and the batteries. :twothumbs
> 
> Have you had a chance to compare the light with other lights? What's your opinion of the EC4S vs the EC4?



I'm charging up the new batteries right now...they take twice as long when you're anxiously waiting!!! I'll definitely give some beamshots and feedback soon.


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## Parrot Quack (Oct 5, 2015)

Waiting, waiting, waiting.....


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## akhyar (Oct 6, 2015)

markr6 said:


> I'm charging up the new batteries right now...they take twice as long when you're anxiously waiting!!! I'll definitely give some beamshots and feedback soon.




Is it dark already?


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## Grijon (Oct 6, 2015)

Great review, FlashLion!


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## markr6 (Oct 6, 2015)

I started to hijack this thread with EC4*S* talk...sorry! So I left my feedback on the other EC4 & EC4S thread.


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## FlashLion (Oct 8, 2015)

Grijon said:


> Great review, FlashLion!


Thanks for reading!




markr6 said:


> I started to hijack this thread with EC4*S* talk...sorry! So I left my feedback on the other EC4 & EC4S thread.


No problem to post here about the EC4S.
You can also post in my EC4S review http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...sx18650)-PreRelease-Version-REVIEW&highlight=
I don't know when/if I will get another EC4S to update my review.


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## hank (Oct 18, 2016)

A caution -- if you value having a warranty, make sure you buy only from an "authorized distributor or dealer" -- I just learned that from Nitecore
because I got one of their lights with a blank, unstamped "warranty card" that Nitecore wants to have been filled out and stamped by the seller.
(and no, I haven't found a comprehensive list or definite statement about who is or is not an authorized distributor or dealer).

This may not void any expected warranty, depending on where you live, but I thought it was worth asking Nitecore about, and it's not clear what their answer means to me.


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## akoposilester (Oct 20, 2016)

was about to buy one since they are on sale. but with the high parasitic drain im hesitant.


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## D6859 (Oct 23, 2016)

akoposilester said:


> was about to buy one since they are on sale. but with the high parasitic drain im hesitant.



With the 350 uA parasitic drain Flashlion measured a 3200 mAh battery would take 3200 mAh / 350 uA = 9143 h = 380 d (= over a year) to empty. 

I measured 160 uA parasitic drain in my EC4SW (with the blink off). That would empty a 3200 mAh battery in 3200 mAh / 0.16 mA = 20 000 h = 833 d = 28 months (= over two years). 

If your going to use the flashlight daily, weekly or even monthly I wouldn't see the parasitic drain a problem. My EC4SW stays in my S&R backpack ready for the searches. As I don't need to use it even monthly (fortunately there's been only one alert for our group this fall) I've cut the circuit with a piece of a tape. Also, as noted by Flashlion, turning the flashlight on to check if it's still working will take much higher current draw than the parasitic drain. Daily example: 18 secs on Turbo (1.7 A) equals to 24 hours of parasitic drain (350 uA). Monthly example: leave the Turbo mode on for 9 minutes and it equals to 1 month on standby. So the question is: are you going to use the flashlight more than 9 minutes on turbo every month?


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## StandardBattery (Oct 23, 2016)

Despite everything I don't like about Nitecore and this particular light, the sale price on the EC4SW is very tempting as I really like 2 cell side-by-side designs. The sale price on the original EC4 at BG (I think it was) is super good, but have to many comparable 26650 lights and TK35 models to bight on that one.

Would love Zebra to make a 2 cell side by side AA light.


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## D6859 (Oct 23, 2016)

D6859 said:


> (fortunately there's been only one alert for our group this fall)



...aaand that's how you order a S&R alert into your phone. I just came home after searching for a missing person for 4 hours in a dark suburb and the woods around. Didn't find her, but I learned to love my EC4SW more.


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## akoposilester (Oct 24, 2016)

D6859 said:


> With the 350 uA parasitic drain Flashlion measured a 3200 mAh battery would take 3200 mAh / 350 uA = 9143 h = 380 d (= over a year) to empty.
> 
> I measured 160 uA parasitic drain in my EC4SW (with the blink off). That would empty a 3200 mAh battery in 3200 mAh / 0.16 mA = 20 000 h = 833 d = 28 months (= over two years).
> 
> If your going to use the flashlight daily, weekly or even monthly I wouldn't see the parasitic drain a problem. My EC4SW stays in my S&R backpack ready for the searches. As I don't need to use it even monthly (fortunately there's been only one alert for our group this fall) I've cut the circuit with a piece of a tape. Also, as noted by Flashlion, turning the flashlight on to check if it's still working will take much higher current draw than the parasitic drain. Daily example: 18 secs on Turbo (1.7 A) equals to 24 hours of parasitic drain (350 uA). Monthly example: leave the Turbo mode on for 9 minutes and it equals to 1 month on standby. So the question is: are you going to use the flashlight more than 9 minutes on turbo every month?




Thank you for this. Ordered one!


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