# Battery, Candle or Paraffin, or gas



## abvidledUK (Mar 2, 2006)

For interior lighting, mood or loss of power.

Thoughts ?


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## Omega Man (Mar 2, 2006)

I still use candles for a powerouts and mood. There's something about using cells when I really don't _need_ to use them, that makes me flinch. 
But now that I have 4 cheap rechargable AAs, I'm fine with using my red CMG for reading, and I'll be on the lookout for other rechargable cells at the hamfest later this month.


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## Sub_Umbra (Mar 2, 2006)

I think that candles are fine for mood, but become much more dangerous to me (and my neighbors) when used out of necessity (blackouts, etc.) 

There are lights (like the *Pak-Lite*) that put out _hundreds and hundreds_ of hours of light brighter and more useful than a candle _on a single battery,_ so it doesn't take a huge stockpile of lights and batteries to replace candles for emergency use. When my power was out for one day short of six weeks due to Katrina I used a Pak-Light every night and only used less than three batteries that were already more than half consumed before they ever got to the light.

I have an emergency stock of candles in my freezer -- but they're just *trade goods.*


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## scott.cr (Mar 3, 2006)

You forgot chemical light sticks! (Or did ya?) Those high-output sticks are surprisingly bright, and Cyalume makes a holder for the six-inchers that has a slide aperture so you can "dim" the stick and turn it "off." Don't work so well in the cold though.

I went on an extended packpacking trip (six weeks) when I was a kid, and what I used for most of my nighttime lighting need were lightsticks... no worries about batteries getting wet, etc.


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## offroadcmpr (Mar 3, 2006)

I've heard that candles are not that great for disasters and such. One reason is because the open flame can catch things on fire, making the sitution ever worse. Another problem is that after disasters like earthquakes, gas lines have a problem of breaking, which could make an explosive situation.


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## TedTheLed (Mar 3, 2006)

hows about carbide?
acetylene gas miner's lights.
not only provide light but heat too, I'm pretty sure one coulds keep a car, or even larger space warm over a cold night..even warm up food...
carbide keeps forever if you keep it dry, and there are some very nifty lamps available, I may get this one, the best carbide lamp ever built, allegedly..the "Mike Lite" 

(mm used t have it at IMO, but it's missing at the moment, maybe sold out.. I emailed them..)


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## Topper (Mar 3, 2006)

Hi Ted, Carbide is hard to get around here seems it was reclassified or something to make it harder for sellers to comply with the laws??? Go figure.
Topper


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## TedTheLed (Mar 3, 2006)

Topper, IMO found a shipper that will handle it. check their site. I think you can get 12 pounds for $80. expensive yes, but still at less than $7 a lb and over an hour of burn time, (perhaps an hour and a half --the Mike lite is the most efficient burner) per ounce, it isn't that bad.. and as I said it keeps

http://www.caves.org/imo/

not working again at the moment whats going on with the internet tonite?


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## TedTheLed (Mar 3, 2006)

http://www.caves.org/imo/frames1.htm

CALCIUM CARBIDE
Fuel for carbide lamps; when water is added, acetylene gas is produced. * Miner's Grade") for caplamps or Nut Grade (") for "ceiling burners." Please be environmentally conscious: don't leave spent carbide in the cave or on the landowner's property--pack it out!

GOOD NEWS!* We have found a supplier who can meet the stringent requirements for shipping carbide.* We can therefore now offer delivery of carbide by them anywhere within the Continental US, as shown below.

17-2712* Miner's Carbide, Six 2-Pound (Quart) Cans* $80.00
This is a delivered-to-your-door price, including all shipping and HAZMAT fees, and will be invoiced and shipped separately from other items in this catalog.* Sorry, no other quantities or types are available.* Shipping by FedEx Freight to continental US destinations only; business address preferred.


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## James S (Mar 3, 2006)

anything that burns is not safe in an emergency. we use candles around here for decoration and romantic dinner lighting. but in case of emergency I have plenty of battery operated lanterns and lights  Just make sure you have lights that are efficient users of batteries. You can get buy on very little light, 3 or 4 white leds will get you around the house and light up a room just fine for safety. Keep the high output fast battery eaters for short term tasks.

Better yet, get a 12v recharger and a set of good NiMH batts for your most used lights that way you can recharge from the car or just about any car battery anywhere. I have gone this way and it's great.

There are some very good gas or paraffin lanterns. I have 2 paraffin lanterns sitting on the mantel of the fireplace. They give out a lot of light, but they are extremely dangerous. Basically a molotov cocktail if you drop one when it's burning.

A small stash of common batteries in the back of the fridge will keep you going for longer than you might think, and is much safer.


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## TedTheLed (Mar 3, 2006)

and how, James S do you propose to produce heat, safely, in an emergency?
I dont know what happens if you knock over a (carbide) Mike lite, Im guessing; probably nothing like a molotov cocktail , yes the flame can burn. be careful.


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## James S (Mar 4, 2006)

> and how, James S do you propose to produce heat, safely, in an emergency?



You shouldn't be planning to cook over your candles are you? 

get a camp stove! There are many models from small to huge to choose from, they are safe to use with proper ventilation, there are multi-fuel models, there are tiny ones that run on pellets, there are big ones to connect to the propane tank. They are MUCH safer than trying to cook or boil water over some kind of lantern.

if you just need to provide heat to keep you warm then the various gas lanterns can do this very well, and if you get one with a metal tank and treat it with the proper respect they can proved a great deal of warmth. 

I was talking more about general lighting than cooking or heating. 

A single LED light on regular batts will run for many hours and is perfectly safe to leave in candle mode in the bathroom, a candle in candle mode is definitely NOT. I generally think that candles are pretty safe if you use your head. They need to be in the middle of tables and not pushed against the wall and that sort of thing. The knock over danger is pretty low unless you've put them somewhere stupid. But a candle on the table away from other things isn't going to start a fire even if it does tip over. Other kinds of decorative glass lanterns or people trying to get light enough to do something with candles and putting a dozen of them all over the place is when they have problems.

But then, you can't get a whole lot of heat from a candle or 2 either. If you're in a very small space I suppose it would help, but not in your regular house.

I have a case of big sterno cans stowed away for this here as well as the proper stands to put a pan over one. I also have a small camp stove. I'm set for cooking or boiling water for several days. Any longer than that and I'm bugging out.

[edit:] as far as knocking over a carbide lamp, that depends entirely on the type of lamp that you've got. A real caving lamp is designed to continue to burn in just about any position as they can't go out every time you stoop over. And so if it falls over and doesn't go out then you have a little blow torch pointed at the table top or the rest of the stuff on your table. The water will stop flowing in some models if it's at too extreme an angle and so the gas will stop being generated and in a few minutes it will go out, but you could have a fire on your hands before that.

The problem is that anything that burns you need to be smart to use safely. And in general people aren't smart, and in an emergency when you're tired and scared and in the dark, you might not be thinking clearly either. I'd rather cook on the grill outside and use an LED lantern inside than try to cook over a carbide lantern on the kitchen table and burn the house down.


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## TedTheLed (Mar 4, 2006)

good points James, but if you have a tank of propane in your house, well then you're set! 
I use propane for cooking and refridgeration all the time.
So unless the truck doesn't arrive I'm OK.

I thik the carbide lamp would be a useful double duty kind of thing in lieu of the above cooking and lighting equipment, especially for smaller spaces, like a car, or backpack.

Im not sure but I think you lay the Mikelite on it's back so the flame was vertical, then all you'd need to cook would be some sort of stand..and you'd have plenty of light to do it. A pound of carbide would last 24 hours or so..

..I was thinking what you said about candles; when they tip, they roll, usually off the table right into the 'dry tinder' box right?  -- how about non-rolling square candles for a little added safety?


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## h_nu (Mar 4, 2006)

I am in the battery operated lighting group myself and rarely think of burning candles. Maybe it's the non-smoker in me. Never carried a lighter. But

http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=100497&id=prod1160911

may be an option for the routine type power outages. These are short enough you don't have to worry about them tipping over.


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## TedTheLed (Mar 4, 2006)

...kind of a miniature kerosene lantern for the disposable age, heh? 
...speaking of molotov cocktails!
...good for walgreens they figured out how to sell oil for$16 a gallon!


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## Bmccue1964 (Mar 5, 2006)

My 2 cents: Cyalume light sticks (chemical) have expiration dates on them. Check this before buying. I'm not certain how long their good for. Also, Sterno fuel evaporates fairly quickly in a few years (quicker if storage are ais warm). This even happens in unopened cans. Check regularly using the "feel test" (shake it).


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 5, 2006)

I use kerosene lamps. Not dangerous when they're properly tended to. I don't pay $16/gal for any kind of specialized lamp oil, I burn diesel at just under $3/gal. Certain manufacturer's hype aside, kerosene lamps do not smell at all if they are burning correctly. I have a large stockpile of diesel, so I'm set for lighting, cooking, and limited power generation. For my main cooking and heating, I have the woodstove, which is usually burning anyway. I also have a couple Brunton Optimus Nova stoves which will burn just about anything flamable that pours. Incredible little stoves, wish someone would build a lantern that does the same thing(don't bother mentioning the Petromax). Light a central room with your chosen source(for me the living room, as that's what will be heated) and use your flashlights for visits to the loo and the rest of the house. Enjoy the dark and your own preparedness.  

Cheers. :buddies:


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## TedTheLed (Mar 6, 2006)

Diesel, thanks for the info! I have gallons of diesel for the generator, but was never sure if diesel was the same as kerosene to a lamp, and I wasn' t about to experiment..but now I know, thanks again.
I'll check out those Bruntons. Funny that's the 3rd time "Brunton" has come up lately; once for their 4aa 3watt headlamp, second for the "Glorb" and now third; these stoves..


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 7, 2006)

TedTheLed said:


> Diesel, thanks for the info! I have gallons of diesel for the generator, but was never sure if diesel was the same as kerosene to a lamp, and I wasn' t about to experiment..but now I know, thanks again.
> I'll check out those Bruntons. Funny that's the 3rd time "Brunton" has come up lately; once for their 4aa 3watt headlamp, second for the "Glorb" and now third; these stoves..


 
Diesel isn't the same as kerosene to a lamp, but it does work quite well. I only use on-road diesel as it's sulphur content is much less than offroad and it's not dyed. The dye in off-road diesel is a contaminant in and of itself, but also hides cloudiness and other contaminants which would make for an unfit fuel. It's worth the extra thirty or so cents per gallon to do without the dye. I recommend experimenting ahead of time. I only have experience with burning diesel in standard wick lamps, haven't tried it in pressure lamps or wick-fed mantle lamps. Good luck!

Cheers. :buddies:


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## JacobJones (Oct 4, 2011)

I don't like to revive a thread this old but thought I should incase someone sees this thread and thinks it's ok to use diesel in a kerosene/parrafin lamp.

Diesel will burn ok and it's ignition temprature is high enough to prevent runaway flames unlike other fuels people use when they shouldn't (white spirit, alcohol). but if you do decide to use diesel in a lamp only use it outdoors, diesel has additives in that are harmful.

!!DO NOT BURN DIESEL INDOORS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!! 


The same goes for white spirit (paint thinner), petrol and alcohol. Please do not use these as fuel, they're called kerosene/parrafin lamps, not paint thinner lamps for a reason.
It is a common misconception that it is safe to use these fuels, there are a lot of horror stories about runaway flames if you need more convinicing.

Hopefully this will help stop people being misguided and getting themselves hurt


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## Quest4fire (Oct 13, 2011)

It seems I remember seeing a news story about campers who died of carbon monoxide poisoning by keeping a white gas lantern lit in their tent. Very sad. My wife has been on a battery powered decorative candle jag the last few months. We probably have at least a dozen now. My only requirement was that she get the AA powered ones, so I could stuff 'em with eneloops  Most of them have a timer function. We have several that run between eight pm and midnight daily, placed strategically around the house, just to enjoy. I think they would work great as emergency lighting.


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