# Hotwire How-To: The ROP and the Mag 11



## Conte (Jan 29, 2010)

*One of my personal favorite Hotwires,* for its size and reliability is the Mag11. 







It has the ability to dish out a plentiful cornucopia of lumens without any special requirements. Just house it in a Mag 2C and feed it a couple if common 18650 Lion Cells and it will happily give you a great balance between output and runtime in a tight package. 

Like its Welch Allyn brother, the ROP will function under the very same conditions, but offering the added flexibility of Hi and Low output functionally acquirable together in one package of bulbs. It is made using a standard PR flashlight bulb base so One can drop a Rop into their Mag without the need for any special bulb Adapter. 

*The Bulbs: *





Right to left. Rop Hi, Rop lo, and a WA1111 in a Fivemega Brass G4 Bi-Pin socket. 



Understanding *the Mag11 is fairly simple*. It uses the Welch Allyn WA1111 bulb. A bulb rated for 6.0volts natively that can be over driven into the 7.5 volt working range making is a perfect choice for Li-Ion Hotwires. It manages to handle the peak output of even an IMR cell without  and without the need for a softstart. 

Lux Luthor's Data on this bulb is HERE.

*The ROP* is a tad more tricky to understand as it is available in 4 different flavors. 2 Voltage Levels, each with 2 Output Levels. 

First off, ROP stands for Roar Of The Pelican, named after the renowned Pelican Products Inc, manufacturers of high performance special application flashlights and storage cases. 

These bulbs are design for use in their Big D flashlight, which is a large hand held "lantern" offering 2 modular output modes. "High Output" mode using a 24watts bulb, and "Long Running" mode using an 11watt bulb, (Or Low, as it's known here on CPF.) 

Furthermore, the Big D is available with 2 different power-plants. 
A 6volt Sealed Lead Acid system, and a 7.2volt Nickel based system, currently NiMH. As such, they make bulbs to accommodate the 2 voltage ranges. 

When you purchase bulbs for the Big D for your ROP build, it comes in a pack of 2 with both the High and Low bulb. 






*The 7.2volt bulbs* are part number *3853*. As you can imagine, they are a perfect match with a 2xLion system without offering much in the way of overdrive, though will likely yield long life and  proof performance under such conditions. The Rop53 High bulb will give you slightly less output then the Mag11 using the same conservative LiCo power plant. 

Data for the Rop53 High is HERE, and Rop53 Low is HERE. 

*The 6.0volt bulbs* are part number *3854*.
The Rop54 is the 53's more endowed twin sister as it offers Overdrive over the 53 when used in a Li-ion setup. With common LiCo Cells it's output is virtually similar yet subtly less then that of the WA1111. However, when both bulbs are fed a beefier IMR power plant the Rop54 will trump the WA1111 offering output known to rival the legendary Mag85. Despite the lower voltage rating then its Rop53 sister, research has shown it can actually handle a higher level of overdrive. This added to the instant gain of lumens makes a Rop53 setup almost redundant unless you are seeking mission critical reliability, assuming of course you will get more hours out of a 53 bulb running at these voltage levels. 

Data for the Rop54 High is HERE, and Rop54 Low is HERE. 


*Body Selection:*






*One of the Wonderful things about the ROP/11 build* is its versatility due to it's easily established working voltage. *One can build a Rop/11 in a:
*
- 2C Mag using 2x18650 common Lion Cells; IMR for improved output or LiCo for extra runtime. 

- 2D Mag using - 2x18650 common Lion Cells or;
- 2x26650 IMR Lion cells for extended Runtime. 

- 6D Mag using - 6x Nickel Based Rechargeable D-Cells, specifically;
- 6x 12000mAh NiMH D Cell, for Long Runtime.






A 6D build can offer you a good 3 hours of consistent high output for a Rop/11. Using a Rop-Lo could be up to 6 hours. 

*Ingredients:*






*Lens and reflector:*

No matter which version you choose you will need to upgrade the Lens, and acquire a metal reflector. 

If you use a drop in upgrade reflector that uses the stock Mag Bezel the lens we use a 52.1x2.0mm Borofloat Lens found HERE.

There are a few reflector options. 
My personal best Bang for Buck recommendation is a FiveMega Ver2 Deep Reflector found HERE.

A tighter Budget my prefer the Sandwich Shoppe Camless HERE,
Or the cammed offerings of Britelumens HERE.

For best results a ROP will require a Cammed Fivemega reflector. 
If you wish to save money on the cam or get the Sandwich reflector, instructions for locking and focusing the Mag Cam is HERE.

*Bulbs:*

*If building a Mag11* using the stock Mag switch, You will need a Fivemega G4 Bi-Pin Adapter HERE. If you purchase an Adapter from Fivemega, he will also sell you the WA1111 bulbs to go with it. 
This makes the WA1111 very convenient, especially if you live outside the USA where sourcing other bulbs can be difficult. 






*If Building a Rop* you will need a pack of Pelican 3853 or 3854 bulbs.
I can't recommend an preferred source for them. You may do well to seek out you're local Pelican dealer. 
In the USA you could try Brightguy for 3853 and 3854.
I got mine from a local Work Safety Supply store. Part #09G3854


*Batteries:*

*For 18650 Batteries for the 2C *or 2D Build, AW is one of the most trusted of CPF dealers. 
His LiCo sales thread can be found HERE. For more kick he offers IMR cells HERE.
According to my measurements of my particular Old Style Non "C" Prefixed serial number 2C, His P-26 cells will fit. 

*High Capacity D-Cell for the 6D* build can be had commonly from many sources. In Canada I personally deal with OnlyBatteries.com HERE.
They regularly have good sales, and offer coupons for returning customers next purchases. 
*


The 2C Build:*

Assembling the Business end is pretty straight forward. 
For more details regarding bulb handling techniques and focus tuning refer to THIS THREAD.






As you can see, 2x18650's protrude out of the end of the 2C but the tailcap is just deep enough to accommodate them.

Modding the tailcap is relatively easy. 
The First Step is to remove the anodizing (paint) off the the bottom of the inside.






This can be done with a wire brush on a dremel as seen here.
If you don't have a dremel you could try thoroughly scraping is away with a file or similar tool.






After either method I rinse the debris out, I usually wipe it out with some cleaning alcohol on a paper towel.

Once the bottom is clean,
*The Next Step* is to construct a a method to fill the gap and make good electrical contact. 

For this, I find some random foam:






Seen here, I cut a section of a foam spacer I found in a spool of CD-R disks. Any foam will almost do, you are looking for something firm and thick enough to hold the batteries in place. 






Once's you've done this you can creatively loop a piece of solid copper wire around the foam as I have. This wire is 18 gauge. It's rating is plenty to make a good solid resistance free electrical connection between the battery and the tailcap. 






The Solid copper wire is flexible enough to mold to your needs and yield to the pressure applied without breaking. Meanwhile it is also rigid enough to hold itself in place. Between it and the foam both having wings making contact with the side of the tailcap, this assembly will hold itself in place well enough without the worry of it falling out.

Once this is done, the tail cap should be good to go. 

*Moving on to the Next Step *we should sleeve the battery. 






I sleeve my batteries by cutting up and rolling a couple of toilet paper tubes together then wrapping them with electrical tape. It's fairly easy and straight forward to construct. Toilet paper tubes can sometimes be very difficult to source out, requiring the savvy modder to seek out the nearest powder room and conduct many bowel movements before having enough stock to work with. Electrical tape on the other hand, needs no introduction. 

Once done. You're Rop/11 should be ready to rip. 

*
The 2D Build:*

The 2D has the advantage of being able to accommodate wider cells.
One could use a set of 26650 IMR's to fire up their Rop/11 for extended runtime. Constructing a sleeve for the 26mm cells is just as easy as it is for the 2C, but sleeving 18mm cells can be a bit trickier as some wadding will be needed to wrap between the inner and outer sleeve tubes. I just fold in half a sheet or two of paper towel, wrap it around the inner tube, then slip that into the other tube. You could also use Junk Mail. The 2D sleeve may also need a bit of extra length then a toilet paper tube. You may want to source out a paper towel tube. Cutting it in half can produce two pieces for making both the inner and outer tube. 






Assembling the business end is obviously identical to the 2C. 
For more details regarding bulb handling techniques and focus tuning refer to THIS THREAD.
*
The main difference between the 2D and th 2C build is the tail cap mod.*






Here are a couple of Stock Mag Springs. 
On the Left is one out of a Newer Rebel LED Maglite.
If you have this one, skip to installation, its perfect just the way it is.
If you have the one of the right. It will need some minor tweeking. 






What you want to do, is firmly but gently squeeze the inner ring to make it smaller. It may take some force, and the pliers will likely slip off a few times, so mind the fleshy part of your hand as to not get it pinched. 
You may not need to do this mod if using 26mm cells. 






Once done, it will look something like this. *Make sure the pointed end of the inner circle points downwards as to not risk gouging your battery. *

All you have to do now, is install the spring backwards.
The smaller inner circle will make proper contact with the 18650 cell, and you don't even need to de-anodize the cap !
Meanwhile, because there is less travel between the battery and tail cap, it's an automatic resistance mod, and the roughly 4 amps of power you will be running is not enough to warp the spring. 

*The 6D Build* needs no real explanation. Assemble your business and, and drop in 6 NiMH D cells. Done !


*You are ready to rock!*


*ROP vs Mag11*

I'm sure if you do a search, this has been debated. 

I have found obvious gains with the ROP setups. You have the option of stepping down to 11watts, and with the best of power plants, it's a definite winner in the Lumen department. 

As far as price goes. I've currently paid twice for a set of ROPs then I have for a Single WA1111, but then you do get 2 bulbs.
But what if you only need to replace the Hi Bulb ? If you are out for one thing, and one this only, the WA1111 might be more economically feasible in the long run. 

The WA1111 has Three Notable advantages over the ROP. For one, when runtime is of importance, The 1111 will more output then the Rop54 when using higher capacity LiCo cells, giving you, ultimately, the best balance of performance and runtime. 

For two, The Wa1111 is "adjustable". The Rop bulb is potted. If you drop your favorite reflector over top of it, and don't get that perfect hotspot you are looking for, What you see is what you get, there is no adjusting it. The 1111 on the other hand stands on a pair of pliable legs that can be bent to ones will. If you don't like what you see when you first fire it up, it's position and focus can be meticulously fine tuned to ultimate throw perfection. 

And for Three, which in my opinion is one of the Rops greatest weaknesses to an Avid Incan User, The 1111 can be Plugged on top an Incan Driver, or Regulator, offering variable output, runtime, and extended life. This can be had with a Fivemega Custom or a Clicky tailcap mod, but not as easily and economically as the 1111. 

In the end its a matter of application and results. On paper, there really is no clear winner.


*BONUS LEVELS:* *THE MEGALENNIUM ROP !*






You heard right. Fivemega has taken the famous Surefire M6 design, scaled it to take 2x26500 IMR cells, added a matching head and bezel, and fabricated a reflector assembly for it Specific to the ROP !






The sales thread for it is HERE.

It is probably one of the most underrated Fivemega custom made, currently enjoyed by only a handful of people, yet it is no shorter of quality they any other piece to come out of his shop.






It is the ONLY Fivemega custom (that I know of) currently on the market that comes with the matching head and bezel. 






It is shorter then a 2C, just a bit wider. It could almost be a large EDC.
The ribbing means no clammy hands as air can circulate between.
And the heavy duty aluminum construction allows for ample cooling. 






The reflector is custom tuned and and fitted for the ROP Bulb. 






To complete the MegaROP. You need only order the following from his sales thread.

- 2x26500 Megalennium $139
- Pelican 3853 module/reflector $40 (Comes with bulbs)
- Borofloat lens $6.50
- Installed McClickie switch $20






It is AW Incan Driver Ready ! Compatible with Version B in HERE.
Use this instead of the McClickie. A ROP with an Incan Driver !

Add a couple of AW IMR Cells found HERE. 






When you get this guy together, with a ROP High and and Incan Driver, it becomes an instant User Light.

Last but not least, the HA Matte Gray finish has an interesting texture that feels more like rock then metal. This light literally feels like its made of Stone. And, for a few bucks more, you can have it Gold Plated.


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## Hack On Wheels (Jan 29, 2010)

Very nice How-To! All the pictures and links are excellent; you must have taken a lot of time to do this. :thumbsup:


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## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Jan 29, 2010)

Great work! My Mag11's my favourite incan light and you've gone to a lot of detail on the various setups. I'm a little bit concerned where you say you can use "2x26650 IMR Lion cells for extended Runtime". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm worried the bulbs would  under that scenario due to the low internal resistance of those cells.


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## Conte (Jan 29, 2010)

> I'm a little bit concerned where you say you can use "2x26650 IMR Lion cells for extended Runtime". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm worried the bulbs would  under that scenario due to the low internal resistance of those cells.



I haven't tested this with the IMR26650, but I have with the IMR26500.
I got no with with the 500's, so unless the 650's are profoundly different, it should be good.


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## Scattergun (Jan 30, 2010)

That Megalennium looks fantastic! If it was possible to have a bipin-adapter instead of the ROP-bulb I´d buy a Megalennium instantly! That way you could have best of both worlds, wide selection of bulbs and a superb battery with softstart!


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## Conte (Jan 30, 2010)

Oh but there is ! 
I don't suppose you own an FM3x Turbo head ? Or and Fivemage

You get the MN bi-pin adapter HERE.

And the Cam and Mag head Adapter set HERE.

Unfortunately, none of this works with the stock head. You either have to have a matching FM3X turbo head, if you want it to look right, or use a Mag head, which can look funny. 

The other option, if you happen to have a Surefire M head, you use the MN adapter, and if I understand correctly, it should screw right on.

The Megalennium was originally designed as a body replacement for Surefire M series lights, giving you the ability to use common rechargeable Li-Ion cells.


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## Scattergun (Jan 30, 2010)

I guess those options makes the light almost as expensive as an ordinary M6 with MN-bipin adapter, and that kind of defeats the purpose... getting a relatively cheap light with rechargeable cells and a bipin lamp. I think I´ll go for the P7-module instead if heatsinking is well executed.

If ROP is the goal, I guess MagLite is the preferred platform if economics are to be considdered.


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## DM51 (Jan 30, 2010)

Very useful "how to do it" thread, with good explanatory photos and text


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## Conte (Feb 9, 2010)

*UPDATED.

Added more info, and 3854 details. * 



> I guess those options makes the light almost as expensive as an ordinary M6 with MN-bipin adapter, and that kind of defeats the purpose... getting a relatively cheap light with rechargeable cells and a bipin lamp.


Ah, this is true, the good selling point of this light, if you are not into LED, is having a ROP in the most ultimate of format. It gets pricey if you collect all the pieces as I have. 



> If ROP is the goal, I guess MagLite is the preferred platform if economics are to be considdered.


Maglite is always a winner when economics is considered. 
You certainly don't buy a Fivemega Custom, to a Surefire even for the sake of economics. I personally would rather have a limited run Fivemega Custom over a mass manufactured name brand anyway. 

The Mega Rop has since turned into one of my favorite lights.


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## GarageBoy (Feb 10, 2010)

Get this sticked in the incan forum!
I love the Mags for the "hot rod" factor.


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## DM51 (Feb 11, 2010)

GarageBoy said:


> Get this sticked in the incan forum!


Good idea! I've added it to the Threads of Interest sticky.


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## KevinL (Sep 21, 2010)

I decided to pop back in and see how the ROP is doing. Even as someone who has grown up with it since day 1 (the oldies know the story), I was thinking that a lot of the new multicore LEDs are going to put it out of business. In fact the vast majority of my incans have been put out to pasture. I'm awaiting the new LF P7 turbohead for my M3, even. 

Little did I know that you folks have taken it to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL. I am particularly in awe of the Megalennium version. That is just absolutely phenomenal.

Also, many thanks for the information on the IMR 18650's. It's just odd that I knew of them but never thought of using them in this combination. When I first came up with the original battery combinations I always liked the 6xSub-C stick better than the 2 x 18650, for both safety reasons, and because the SubC stick didn't sag as much as the 18650. The 4D ROP (original ROP) always ran hotter and whiter than the Lithium Edition (LE) on 18650. And all these years running the LE, I had to keep watching to see whether it would one day try to kaboom me - unprotected 18650's operating at the very edge of their safe operating envelope is ... dicey. 

Perhaps now is the time to kick up the LE to replace the Sub-C version using both safer and more powerful IMR cells.. I must drop AW a Paypal one of these days 

Thanks for the build thread and taking time to document how to build one. Let the light continue!!!! lovecpf:goodjob:


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## revolvergeek (Sep 22, 2010)

Thanks for the overview. I just broke out my old RoP Silver 2C Mag the other day and was thinking that I really needed to revisit what batteries I was using in it, and this post was great for a refresher on the subject. :twothumbs


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## KevinL (Oct 7, 2010)

ROP history for those who may have missed the back story 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3552998#post3552998

I got my IMRs this evening. Hotter, whiter, safer than 18650 lithium-cobalt (traditional li-ion). HIGHLY recommend that current and prospective owners consider IMR cells.


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## Conte (Jul 9, 2012)

Oh geeze. I haven't logged into this forum in probably 2 years. 

Well, I'm glad to see my account and posts are silly working properly.


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## Greenbean (Feb 27, 2013)

*​I am responding to ask a question and don't wanna start a new thread as the ROP is what I have made, both Low and High, 
this thread made me thing I could do it myself and I did, Thanks CPF

I was using two of Erics 6AA to 2D adapters, got them in 2011 I think, well one adapter ended up powering a FM BiPin adapter with a WA1111, 
Then some stupid thief decided to make me the victim of a vehicle larceny!!!

Well the 2D M*g I had with the 6AA to 2D adapter with Eneloops and a BiPin WA1111 in it was among the things stolen, I just hope the sorry 
person looked right into it thinking it was a "regular" M*glite, Lol...

So I am down to one BiPin adapter left and want to continue to use it as the WA1111, 

So I tried to build my ROP Lo in a 2C cell I picked up for cheap, problem is my AW 18650 are to long??? Well no worries I can use them in my TK35
and just get some new IMR 18650 cells, So I need to know are the 2000 mAh 18650 going to be the right length in my 2C?

So if you were me and had one 6AA to 2D adapter with Eneloops, and wanted to have working ROPS in HO and LO, and WA1111, of these three bulb
combinations, which one is best served in longest run time to the Eneloops in that adapter, I want to leave this light by the door for family to use when
extra light is needed, as they don't like the 3D M*g85 I made, lol... They say it's to bright...

I was thinking just use it for the Rop LO lamp, 

I want to power either the WA1111 or one of the Rops in the AW IMR 2C 2000mAh body,

make sense???

BTW I have a light I can use the WA1111 bulbs in, so if push comes to shove, which ROP bulb is better in
either the 6AA Eneloops to 2D adapter, and I'll use the 2C body with two IMR 18650s in it for the other. 

Thanks for checking and I look forward to the information, as always... You guys/gals rock!!!

Oh and I am using the 3854 bulbs...*


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