# AW 2900 mAh 18650?



## CPFBiology (Sep 2, 2010)

Does AW have a new battery that is even more capacity for the 18650 size?
I found one on L----hound at 2900 mAh, is this the same chemistry just larger capacity, or a different chemistry? Anyone know more about this?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 2, 2010)

CPFBiology said:


> Does AW have a new battery that is even more capacity for the 18650 size?
> I found one on lighthound at 2900 mAh, is this the same chemistry just larger capacity, or a different chemistry? Anyone know more about this?



There are several sellers of a new protected 2900mAh Lithium battery size, of *which I have ordered and paid for out of my own money*, and which I may or may not review and compare, but would never take the risk of linking to them. So you will have to figure out on your own what is now available.


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## QtrHorse (Sep 2, 2010)

CPFBiology said:


> Does AW have a new battery that is even more capacity for the 18650 size?
> I found one on L----hound at 2900 mAh, is this the same chemistry just larger capacity, or a different chemistry? Anyone know more about this?


 
Yes, AW has a new 2900 mAH. He still has his 2600 mAH (not that old) and his even older 2200 mAH. I cannot comment on which chemistry they are because I have not done much reading on them but he does give more info over on the CPFmarketplace.com in his FS thread.



LuxLuthor said:


> There are several sellers of a new protected 2900mAh Lithium battery size, of *which I have ordered and paid for out of my own money*, and which I may or may not review and compare, but would never take the risk of linking to them. So you will have to figure out on your own what is now available.


 
LOL...Lux is covering his a$$ because of the new rule.


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## jirik_cz (Sep 2, 2010)

CPFBiology said:


> is this the same chemistry just larger capacity, or a different chemistry? Anyone know more about this?



Check the marketplace, everything is explained there. 

New AW 2900 mAh cells are based on famous Panasonic NCR18650 2900mAh cells. These are currently the best 4.2V 18650 cells that a flashaholic can use.

They are LiNiCoO2 chemistry which should be safer than traditional LiCoO2. Can be safely discharger down to 2.5V for example.

Here are my tests of bare panasonic NCR18650 cells:

Discharged down to 2.8V






Discharged down to 2.5V





As you can see, discharging down to 2.5V will give you a little capacity boost under high current drain.

Their different discharge characteristics will produce a "long tail" with 1x18650 flashlights.


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## mgnu (Sep 2, 2010)

QtrHorse said:


> Yes, AW has a new 2900 mAH. He still has his 2600 mAH (not that old) and his even older 2200 mAH. I cannot comment on which chemistry they are because I have not done much reading on them but he does give more info over on the CPFmarketplace.com in his FS thread.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL...Lux is covering his a$$ because of the new rule.



Well, I would be interested in an objective review. I just bought 2 2600's, and need another 2 cells. 

Also, if you look closely at AW's photo of the 2900mAh cell, it says cell and IC made in Japan....


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## psychbeat (Sep 2, 2010)

dang.. I just ordered 2 new 26ers...
I know its only 300mah but its gonna be in the 
back of my mind...
flashaholic bluez


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## QtrHorse (Sep 2, 2010)

mgnu said:


> Well, I would be interested in an objective review. I just bought 2 2600's, and need another 2 cells.
> 
> Also, if you look closely at AW's photo of the 2900mAh cell, it says cell and IC made in Japan....


 
All of AW's cells are made in Japan. I would bet that 99.99% of all batteries are made in Japan/ not in the US.


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## flashfiend (Sep 2, 2010)

psychbeat said:


> dang.. I just ordered 2 new 26ers...
> I know its only 300mah but its gonna be in the
> back of my mind...
> flashaholic bluez



Looking at jirik_cz's discharge graphs, I still prefer the 2600 batteries.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Sep 2, 2010)

:tinfoil: Post deleted— brain malfunction.


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## jirik_cz (Sep 2, 2010)

QtrHorse said:


> All of AW's cells are made in Japan.



Others are made in China.


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## jirik_cz (Sep 2, 2010)

flashfiend said:


> Looking at jirik_cz's discharge graphs, I still prefer the 2600 batteries.



Also depends on the driver. With a buck-boost driver (or in multi battery configuration) you will get flat output to the end. This test was done with a flashlight modified with dereelight 4SD driver.


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## flashfiend (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm just trying to say I wouldn't worry about 300mAh. The 2600s still seem fine to me.


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## Larbo (Sep 2, 2010)

I noticed from looking at pictures that the + terminal is flat and slightly recessed on the 2600 and 2900 cells, I was thinking of using them on a Download SST50 I ordered, maybe I will stick with IMR's.....:thumbsup:


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## psychbeat (Sep 2, 2010)

flashfiend said:


> I'm just trying to say I wouldn't worry about 300mAh. The 2600s still seem fine to me.



thanks for noting that!lovecpf
yer right- Im not gonna sweat a few minutes at full.

all of my lights are regulated buckz (NB modules)

Ill wait a year or so n see whats happening then- unless
I lose a cell or two which is quite probable....:shrug:

maybe new chargers for the 4.3v cells will be available
or some other new stuff:devil:


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## jasonck08 (Sep 2, 2010)

Larbo said:


> I noticed from looking at pictures that the + terminal is flat and slightly recessed on the 2600 and 2900 cells, I was thinking of using them on a Download SST50 I ordered, maybe I will stick with IMR's.....:thumbsup:


 
If you need a button top cell, why not go with these: *[link removed - DM51]*

They are based off the same Panasonic 2900 cells. :twothumbs


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## AW (Sep 3, 2010)

Well, adding a button top will introduce *additional contact resistance* which you may not want in a performance cell.

BTW, for those who don't already know. jasonck08 = tactical_hid = redilast is the same person. 







jasonck08 said:


> If you need a button top cell, why not go with these: *[link removed - DM51]*
> 
> They are based off the same Panasonic 2900 cells. :twothumbs


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## jasonck08 (Sep 3, 2010)

AW said:


> Well, adding a button top will introduce *additional contact resistance* which you may not want in a performance cell.


 
Well I would assume that the 3-dot triangle PCB design would have more contact resistance then a larger button top. I'd imagine the resistance would be pretty similar.


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## AW (Sep 3, 2010)

You are wrong. The tri-dot contact system is superior to provide solid contact. HSD and Ra lights are using the same system. I wouldn't spend extra $$ to make them they are not good.


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## jasonck08 (Sep 3, 2010)

Well AW, you may be right about having slightly less resistance, but I don't really want to get into a whole debate. There are advantages to both designs and we'll leave it at that.

*Now back on topic.*



jirik_cz said:


> Discharged down to 2.8V
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@ jirk_cz Did you do your graphing on a CBA, then export the graph to excel? I tried that, but it doesn't copy over the mAh capacity for me, just the cell voltage and time.

As you can see in the graph discharging to 2.5v makes the biggest difference when you’re dealing with larger currents due to the voltage sag of the cell. I know when I was testing my cells and I had a 2.8v cutoff PCB, the capacity was a couple hundred mAh lower @ high 2C current draws, so I had to find a nice 2.5v cutoff IC. 
 
While these Panasonics are great cells, I can't wait for the 3100mAh cells to be mass produced. I read something about that Tesla motors is using the 3100mAh cells. They have excellent energy density but it seems very strange to use them in an EV, especially considering that the cells will only last 300-500 cycles, unlike Lifepo4 chemistries which are more commonly used in EV's that can do ~2000 cycles.


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## fivemega (Sep 3, 2010)

AW said:


> BTW, for those who don't already know. jasonck08 = tactical_hid = redilast is the same person.



*For me, AW's protected cells are the best.
Why spend money elsewhere to get products which needs years to pass the test?*


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## AW (Sep 3, 2010)

There are other reasons I 'll be wary using LiIon cells with added button tops instead of integrated +ve modules. Depending on how the button tops are added, you may have the moving nipple syndrome :

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3052628&postcount=59



Even worst. Some cheap batteries makers are using the added button top to disguise the fact that the cell is a *used/salvaged* cell:























As you can see, the added button top hides the 4 spot weld marks typically seen on pulled cells from packs. Well, for those who knows batteries , you can easily tell it is a Sanyo 18650.


So the next question is are there pulled Panasonic NCR18650s ? You bet. I have seen them floating around :












.


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## mikevelarde (Sep 3, 2010)

fivemega said:


> *For me, AW's protected cells are the best.*
> *Why spend money elsewhere to get products which needs years to pass the test?*


 
+1 

and in addition to FM's quote. AW's customer service is top notch!! :twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

BTW, I pay for all my AW's products!!:naughty:


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## jirik_cz (Sep 3, 2010)

jasonck08 said:


> @ jirk_cz Did you do your graphing on a CBA, then export the graph to excel? I tried that, but it doesn't copy over the mAh capacity for me, just the cell voltage and time.



Yes I use CBA and open the .bt2 file directly in excel (it is basically XML file so excel can handle it). I do not use export function in CBA any more, because it will export voltage only with two decimal places. Original .bt2 file contains much more information. You can make further calculations like mWh in excel. 



jasonck08 said:


> While these Panasonics are great cells, I can't wait for the 3100mAh cells to be mass produced. I read something about that Tesla motors is using the 3100mAh cells.



AFAIK Panasonic NCR18650A cells with 3100mAh capacity are in mass production since december 2009 or january 2010. But probably still available only for large customers.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 3, 2010)

jirik_cz said:


> Yes I use CBA and open the .bt2 file directly in excel (it is basically XML file so excel can handle it). I do not use export function in CBA any more, because it will export voltage only with two decimal places. Original .bt2 file contains much more information. You can make further calculations like mWh in excel.


 Good to know that .bt2 can be opened by Excel. Thanks




jirik_cz said:


> AFAIK Panasonic NCR18650A cells with 3100mAh capacity are in mass production since december 2009 or january 2010. But probably still *available only for large customers*.



I have a neighbor that weighs 350 pounds, so maybe I'll ask him to order some for me. :green:

Those of us who have been around here for a while have put AW through his paces, and there is a huge amount of respect and brand loyalty. There is so much he has developed and contributed to this community and his product line. He and Fivemega are in my top 5 modder/sellers standing the test of time going back to 2005, and I don't say that lightly. They have a lot of my money as a result.


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## DM51 (Sep 3, 2010)

The Anti-shilling policy has been discussed at length during the past week, and the detailed ruling was finally announced here (and incorporated in amendments to Rule 6 and the Policies) just a few hours ago. 

Barely an hour elapsed before this post appeared:



jasonck08 said:


> If you need a button top cell, why not go with these: *[link removed - DM51]*
> 
> They are based off the same Panasonic 2900 cells. :twothumbs


It is as clear a violation of the new Rule/Policy as can be imagined. jasonck08, you are suspended from CPF, nominally for 1 week. Further consideration will be given to your future on CPF main. Your account on CPFMP is unaffected, pending the outcome of deliberations by CPF staff.

This thread is closed; any further discussion of the relative merits of these cells should be taken for the time being to the Underground, as the topic is currently a highly-charged one. Venting with flame here will not be permitted.


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