# The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads thread



## wquiles (Mar 30, 2005)

I have been using the search function a lot lately and I am very confused /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif as to what folks use in their SureFire turbo heads. I want to experiment but would hate to learn the hardway and instaflash those expensive SureFire lamps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

I have an L3 and M4 and given the 3xcell and 4xcell body and have been trying the KL6 head on various combinations, but there are far more possiblities once you use incandecent lamps with the KT4 when using regular CR123's or PILAs (168s and 150s, and with the bored-out bodies the larger PILAs and the mightly 18650 bare cells).

From the Surefire site, we know the "normal" combinations:
3xcell (M3T):
- MN15
- MN15

4xcell (M4)
- MN60
- MN61

6xcell (3xcell voltage - M6)
- MN21
- MN20

For example, here Size15's does an awesome job of possible combinations of lamps on the M3 and M3T:
Click here for the link


From the post above the N2 should also work on the Turbo head on 3 normal cells. That post also shows the X4T LED module, and although it does sounds extremely cool, I have never seen a beamshoot of that module compared to anything else. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

What about when using rechargables/PILA's, specially with the A19 extenders?

What I would like to politely ask is for folks to post here what combinations of lamps and batteries they have used in their M3T, M4, and M6 (and beamshoots, if available) so that we can keep this information in a single post for easier sharing.

Thanks, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
Will 
<font color="red">*Please Note:*You do not have to post the whole link since in most cases it is far longer than the width of the page. You can edit your post and change it to display a short description. Thanks, Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif</font>


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## deranged_coder (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

FWIW, I have the KT1 turbohead conversion and use it with my 6P. I also have an MN15 LA (local dealer did not have any N2 LAs in stock when I went) and an A19 extender to be able to use the turbohead in a 3x123 configuration for more oomph.


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## Size15's (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

I am not qualified to comment on using batteries other than those intended by SureFire..

*TurboHead Lamp Assemblies:*

The TurboHeads (TH) Lamp Assemblies (LA) come in two main types:

1) N-Type (old style)

2) MN-Type (Millennium style)

There are two main differences between the N and MN types

1) The outer spring contact is a lot shorter than the inner spring contact on the N-Type LA compared to the MN-Type LA for which both springs are of similar length. This has implications when using the Millennium TurboHead - especially as a "CombatLight / Tactical-light or WeaponLight" because the N-Type LA's can sometimes produce less than 100% reliable contact.

2) The filaments of N-Type LA tend to be thin and short compared to the longer and sometimes thicker filaments of the MN-Type LA. This means that the N-Type LA usually have more of a 'point-source' creating smaller, rounder beams - using more subtle fine stochastic reflectors these can project intense beams of pure light further than MN-Type LA that require more obvious stochastic finishes to produce pure beams.

Notes on TH LA's:
The N-Type LA's are not etched to identify them - the Lamp Assembly bases towers are coloured.
The MN-Type LA's are laser etched to identify themselves.

*TurboHeads:*

SureFire have five main types of TurboHead (TH).

1) "*T*" 3" diameter "Extended Range" TurboHead with Lexan window.
NB: There are several known variations within this type with regards to style of rim and reflector finish. It is most often found to have a fine stochastic finish designed for the N-Type LA.

2) "*TRTH*" 2.5" diameter so-called Threaded Rim TurboHead with Lexan window.
NB: This TH features a protruding bezel rim that is threaded on the inside. Designed for the N62 LA and used by the L120M LeopardLight Lamp Module and early 12PM & 12ZM Tactical Entry Lights.

3) "SRTH" 2.5" diameter so-called Short Rim TurboHead with Lexan window.
NB: This TH is exclusive to SureFire Dealer "LPS" Here
It does not feature a protruding bezel rim and has a fine stochastic finish very similar to the "T" TH and optimised for the T-Type LA - specifically the N2.

4) "KT" 2.5" diameter TurboHead with Pyrex window.
NB: This TH is the current version. It's reflector has a more obvious stochastic finish designed for the MN-Type LA.

5) "Millennium TurboHead" 2.5" diameter TurboHead with Pyrex window.
NB: This TurboHead is the current version. It's reflector has a more obvious stochastic finish designed for the MN-Type LA.

TurboHeads replace the standard bezels of 'regular' SureFires...
"T", "TRTH", "SRTH" and "KT" TurboHeads require an adapter collar to attach to standard bodies (for example the G2/9P etc).

The Millennium TurboHead only interfaces with "Millennium bodies" such as the M3/L6/M4/M6 and Millennium WeaponLights.

The TurboHead for the 9AN - the KT3 will only interface with the 9AN.
The TurboHead for the 9N - the T3 will only interface with the 9N.

The TurboHead Kit for the 8NX/8AX/L7 - the KT5 has a special adapter collar to attach to these bodies. Please note that the 8-Series adapter collars used T5 and KT5 have different styling but are interchangeable. 

Note that although the adapter collars of the T5/KT5 are specific to the 8-Series bodies, the TH's are the same as the kits for the standard bodies (T1/KT2 etc). Therefore the SRTH swaps with the KT5's TurboHead and be used on the 8NX for example.

*Classic TurboHead Lamp Assemblies:*
N1 - Two-SF123A (supplied in the KT1 and T1).
N2 - Three-SF123A (supplied in the KT2 and T2. NB: Later KT2's were supplied with the MN15).
N3 - KT3 (9AN) or T3 (9N) only.
N4 - One-B65 NiCad Battery Stick (supplied in the T4) for 6R and 7Z bodies.
N5 - KT5 (8NX/8AX/L7) or T5 (8X).
N62 - Four-SF123A (supplied as part of the T-62 and L120M, and used by the 12PM & 12ZM and Classic LeopardLight.

*Lamp Assemblies for the Millennium TurboHead:*
MN15 & MN16 - Three-SF123A - M3T etc.
MN60 & MN61 - Four-SF123A - M4 etc.
MN20 & MN21 - Six-SF123A - M6 etc.

*Notes:*

N2, MN15 & MN16 are interchangeable (But N2 should not be used in WeaponLights or heavy-use Tactical "CombatLights" such as the M3T). Note that the MN5/MN16 beams are oval and may not produce 'perfect' beams in Classic TurboHeads due to the larger, longer, thick filaments.

MN60, MN61 & N62 are interchangeable (But N62 should not be used in WeaponLights or heavy-use Tactical "CombatLights" such as the M4. Again, the MN60 and MN61 are better suited to TurboHeads with heavier stochastic reflector finishes such as the Millennium TurboHead and KT TurboHead.

KT1, KT2, KT3, KT5:




T1, T2, T3, T4, T5:



Please Note that the adapter collar for the T5 is knurled rather than styled like the collar for the KT5. However, they are interchangeable.

KT4 (Millennium TurboHead):




Left to Right:
"T"
"SRTH"
"TRTH"
"KT"




And another photo of some TurboHeads with their adapter collars removed:




Examples:

6P+A19+KT2
8NX+KT5
("T" and "SRTH" TurboHeads also shown)




9NT (9N+T3)
9AN+KT3
9AN


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## wquiles (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Al,

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wow.gif

I am simply flored - that was awesome! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif 

Thanks much,

Will


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## Size15's (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

This photo shows some of the differences between the reflector finishes:




These photos show a number of different TurboHead models and "creations":








I hesitate to post this photo:



Notice there are two different types of spring contacts - the "N-Type" and the "MN-Type".
Notice also that one of the MN-Type TH LA's is finished in purple rather than the current black (identified by laser etched marking) - When the Millennium Series was first released they continued with the coloured way to identify the LA. This caused confusion, not to mention with the introduction of more TH LA SureFire were running out of colours to use!

*Question*
Can you identify the two MN-Type TurboHead Lamp Assemblies in the photo?

There are many different combinations...
How about this one?




Or this one?




I guess that a lot of people will "create their own M4" using an M3T and an A19...


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## Size15's (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Shelby Chan gathered together some pretty useful beamshots and included also for our interest some impressive photos of the bulbs and filaments:

Click here


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## Topper (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

I run one M4 with 2 168s Pila’s and the N2 lamp
M3T on 2 150s Pila’s with the added Pila spring
My other M4 I added 2 A19’s and run 3 168s with the MN61
I have been cautioned about running 3 like that but I have not had any problems doing so, thus far. YMMV
Topper /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## wquiles (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Al,

Thanks for the additional pictures and for the tip on listing links - I understand what you mean /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Will


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Al, that is a wonderful presentation, and nicely executed.

Bill


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## larryk (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

I have owned in the past a M6 and a M4. The m6 had more of a flood beam and the M4 had a tight beam. My question, is it posible to get the tight beam of the M4 with a M6 ? Larry.


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## Size15's (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

larryk,

The reflector inside the Millennium TurboHead can be removed (although the bezel is sealed and it is not meant to be dismantled) and therefore there is scope to for a modified reflector to be created and used.

Not the easiest thing to do but possible with enough time, money and skills.


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## sween1911 (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Al,

Aren't the reflectors/housings for the Millenium Turbohead (KT4 in M3T/M4/M6) all the same part? I would think that the lamp assemblies are what's responsible for any difference in beam pattern and not the reflector itself. Perhaps shimming the lamp assembly when it's installed in the reflector might change focus? Maybe using a thin (heat resistant) washer over the lamp to sit on that shoulder where it contacts the reflector. Anyone ever tried anything like this?


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## wquiles (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Looking at the close tolterance and close matching of metal contact between the lamp and the turbo head, the bulb is designed to transfer heat to the head for longevity, so if any shim is used, it should transfer this heat to the head.

Will


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## sween1911 (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Maybe one of those thin bronze washers used for bushings/bearings. That should transfer the heat nicely. Would have to find one the right size.


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## leukos (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Al,
I'll nominate you for "Post of the Week" if you would like! Thanks for the pics and info. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


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## Size15's (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

In a parabolic reflector there is only one focal point - quite what part of the parabola you use depends on a variety of things but you've seen how making the reflector deeper (KL6) or wider (TurboHead) can increase the intensity of the beam.

Different reflector curves (other than parabolic) can also be used.

If you shim the Lamp Assembly you are changing it's position in the reflector - defocusing it. If you want to change the light distribution but retain the most efficient light output (use as much light as possible to form the beam) then it follows the reflector has to change shape. Well that's my understanding (and I admit I don't know anything really).

Thanks for your kind words guys.

Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## larryk (Mar 31, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

My experience with other lights, mostly spotlights is that you would need to move the bulb a little further forward into the reflector. using shims would bring the bulb backwards making it even more of a flood pattern. Larry.


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## vhyper007 (Apr 1, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Al,

You are not really from this world, are you? Where in the solar system did you originate?

Just a guess but I'm thinking it was probably pretty bright.

Jokes aside, the preceding information you so freely gave is really astonishing.

Thanks,
Vhyper


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 1, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Al, how about making this a sticky thread? It is a great resource and should not get buried. Move it to reviews?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif

Bill


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## Pydpiper (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Seems to be alot of interest in turboheads over the past little while, this thread deserves to be resurected.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Speaking of which:
I've been compiling a list of all "mini turbo heads" (roughly 1.5 to 2 inches, or 38 to 51mm) available on stock flashlights or as separate parts. 90 percent of them are for use with incandescents, but a few, like the Aleph 3, are for LEDs. Where should I post my list--General? or Incandescents?


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## Luxman (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

My D3/SRTH is on the way! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Edit: Ok Size 15's. After reading some of the many threads on THs...IMO it seems that the best combination of a focused beam, good throw and runtime would be the SRTH/N2.


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## Size15's (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Hmm... I'll think about making it stickie...
Better I think for now to keep the topic alive with posts of interest!

Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## BlueGerbil (Aug 12, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
*Luxman said:*
My D3/SRTH is on the way! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I plan on doing a similar setup in the near future (read: as money allows) - let me know how yours turns out! Thanks!


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## Luxman (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

BlueGerbil,
I have not tried the D3/SRTH/N2 outside yet..but wall test shows a very nice tight beam with slightly oval shape. As for wall throw, no contest compared against the M3 even with the 225 lumen MN11. M3 spot is MUCH larger and MUCH less defined. I can easily see the SRTH/N2 spot defined anywhere within the M3/MN11 spot. I wish I had the M3 KT4/MN16 system to compare against... Since my goal was throw, and not a lot of light covering an area, I am very happy with the D3/SRTH/N2 system...and I like having the extra runtime. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Like another CPF'er told me, I can always get the KT4, but maybe I should get the SRTH while I still can...


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## Geologist (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

OK I thought I would gain clarity by reading this post - but alas I am confused again.

I want to buy (I guess) a KT2 to be used with both a C3 and a C2. What lamp assemblies can I use in this assembly?

Also what other THs would fir the C3/C2/6P/G2(ha ha)/etc series?


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## Size15's (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

The KT2 has the N2 lamp for three-SF123A batteries.
Therefore you can use the KT2 on the C3 straight away.

The KT1 has the N1 lamp for two-SF123A batteries.
Therefore you can use the KT1 on the C2/6P/G2 straight away.

If you get the KT2 for the C3 you use the KT TurboHead and purchase the N1 lamp and use it on the C2/6P/G2.

Al


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## Geologist (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Are there any other lamps that I could use with this TH and 2/3 battery configuartions? Would my money be better spent on a different TH? Obviously is my goal is to maximize TH benifit based on all the lights that I have.

Can I use the MN15 & MN16 in a 3 cell configuartion with a C3 and KT2?


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## leukos (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

"Can I use the MN15 & MN16 in a 3 cell configuartion with a C3 and KT2?"

Yes.


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## Geologist (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Thanks for the info - I don't want to buy the TH and be limited to a 100 lumen bulb. I will want to run that 225 lumen bulb and have some fun!


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## Luman (Oct 26, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

I was thinking about the lamp assemblies that could be used in the M6 and Ohm's Law (V-IR or I = V/R). It seems that any lamp assembly that will work in a given light at a certain voltage will work in another supplying the same voltage. Since the M6 uses two parallel sets of three batteries (9V to the LA), it seems logical that the MN 15 and MN16 lamps would work and yield more than twice the runtime of the M3T. 

If twice the battery capacity gave twice the runtime, then the MN15 would give 125 lumens produces 125 lumens for over two hours, and the MN16 put out 225 lumens for over 40 minutes. However, the MN20 lamp assembly is stated to provide 250 lumens with one hour of run time so it must be more complex than just doubling the runtime with twice the batteries. It probably something to do with the voltage supplied by the batteries decreasing as they are depleted and the resistance of the lamp is changing with current (which changes temperature).

Anyway, my question is, has anyone tried either of these lamp assemblies (MN15 or MN16) in the M6?


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Luman, you get the 1 hour runtime with the MN20 because the parallel battery configuration of the M6 keeps the cells from sagging to the degree that they will when only thrree cells are used. It really does make that much of a difference. The MN16 might not handle the initial voltage spike with new cells that the parallel driven cells can deliver at startup.

Bill


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## wquiles (Apr 1, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

 

Bumping this thread as it has TONS of excellent information by size15's 

Will


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## Flea Bag (Apr 1, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Luman, you get the 1 hour runtime with the MN20 because the parallel battery configuration of the M6 keeps the cells from sagging to the degree that they will when only thrree cells are used. It really does make that much of a difference. The MN16 might not handle the initial voltage spike with new cells that the parallel driven cells can deliver at startup.
> 
> Bill



I think there were two people who mentioned putting an MN15 or MN16 into their M6 with no harmful results after a few runs. Can't remember where that thread was though. Still, it's risky considering not many other people have tried it. I plan to do it when some parts arrive.

If a MNxx filament fails due to voltage overload or similar, I hope the glass walls of the bulb will hold up, keeping the turbohead safe from damage. Anyone had their turboheads damaged by an exploding LA due purely to voltage or current overload?


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## Size15's (Apr 1, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

I have had several bulbs explode in TurboHeads. You should be prepared that the bulb will explode and count yourself extremely lucky if only the filament breaks. If the MN15/MN16 work in your M6 you should consider buying a lottery ticket.


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## cue003 (Jun 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Great thread.

A lot of useful information especially for me since I have just become a big SF lover.

Curtis


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## schrenz (Jun 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

I agree, great threat, a lot of information, especially about the old THs, I have now three TH flashlights (M3T, 9N an 12Z), but when I see your pics, Al...:huh: :huh: 


Is the a differenz between the 12Z (M), 12... and the *7Z*, shown on your pic (I've never heard of, for me it looks like a 12Z-body?).
Best regards from the world-cup-country 
Jens


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## Size15's (Jun 24, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



schrenz said:


> Is the a differenz between the 12Z (M), 12... and the *7Z*, shown on your pic (I've never heard of, for me it looks like a 12Z-body?).
> Best regards from the world-cup-country
> Jens



Yes.
The 12ZM body holds four-SF123A batteries.
The 7Z body holds one B65 NiCad battery stick.

(The 7Z is the same length as a 6R, only a single body so it can have the CombatGrip)

There is no SureFire body extension to convert a 6R/7Z to a four-SF123A body.

Al


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## schrenz (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Thanks Al,

in another treat I've seen the 7Z and the others.

The one I' looking for is a Z3 and a 3'' Head, Surfire-Lego it ruins me .
Greets Jens


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## Size15's (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

I have a 7Z:






I always thought I should have got a 12ZM rather than a 12PM, and also, I've always wanted a Z3 but never purchased one. Strange that I go for the 7Z which is inbetween and not much use!
(The reason I got it was because it came with a T4 TurboHead which is rare)

Al


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## kakster (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Hi Al

The T4 in your pic looks like a 2.5 incher with a "short rim" similar to the SRTH. 

I picked up a 3 inch bell shape T head back when i first joined CPF, and the box was labelled (with a marker pen) as a T4. The bulb it came with had a green pedestal.

So was the turbohead i got mislabelled, or did SF switch to 2.5" bezels for all its turbohead models?


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## Size15's (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

The T4 is in my photo and always has been a 3" diameter TurboHead.

The 12PM/12ZM/LeopardLight used the T-62 TurboHead with N62 Lamp Assembly. This 2.5" diameter Turbohead was usually one with a rim threaded on the inside to accept a screw-in IR BeamFilter.

The SRTH sold exclusively through SureFire Dealer LPS was a version of the T-62 without the threaded rim and a different reflector finish to produce tighter beams from the N1/N2/N4/N5 Lamp Assemblies.
















This photo shows the two main styles of T Turbohead:




Also in this photo is the N4 Lamp Assembly (green) which is the only TurboHead lamp assembly with a rounded tip bulb.

(Note that T3 (and the KT3) TurboHeads are only for the 9N and 9AN respectively - they are not interchangeable at all)

The T3 is the old style rim (straight) and does not accept the F46 Red and F47 Blue BeamFilters fully. As you may be able to tell the F47 has exposed threads on the T3:





Al


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## schrenz (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Interisting!

I sniped a T3 on ebay.de few weeks ago (the seller discribed it with "shurefire":lolsign: ,good for the price), complete 9N without the normal bezel.
Very nice light, because of the laser-beam I'm looking for a 3'' head for 6/9P,etc.

With my homebuild 3,3Ah sanyo the 9N-T3 combo is very useful Flashlight for home-use (to big to carry, for my opinion), only the LOLA secondary light is rather useless:
Greets Jens


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## Size15's (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

The beam of the 9NT rocks!
(it's just a shame the flashlight (3" TurboHead) isn't very practical)


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## karlthev (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Nicely done thread here gentlemen, thanks for the great info!!!


Karl


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## Timber (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Al,

In one of your pictures you show a 6P with 2 A-19 extenders and a KT-2 TurboHead. What lamp assemblies do you run with this? 

The reason I ask is that one SF customer service guy said the MN60 and MN61 would fit but be out of focus and another said they will work fine.

Also, if the MN60 and particularly the MN61 will fit and be in focus will they overheat because of the smaller size of the KT-2 TurboHead vs. a M3T or M4 TurboHead?

Thanks


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## batman (Jul 19, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

A good idea just came into my head since I am very sleepy (it's 3:30 am). 
I want to buy an M3 Turbo so that I can have the ability to upgrade it to an M4 by addnig 1 A-19 cell extender and using the appropriate M4 N60/61 Lamp assemblies. ( I think we all agree a lot of people do that already and it's safe.)
However, what if? What If if I took my M3 turbo, added 3 A-19 cell extenders ( to have 6 X CR 123 cells) and used the appropriate M6 Mn20/21 lamp assemblies? Would I have an M6 or would i just have a long stick in my hand? My guess is instaflash first, then a long stick in my hand - possibly venting flame from the business end? Any help here?
Brad


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## nzgunnie (Jul 19, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

you would have a long stick and a blown bulb.

The M6 batteries are in parallel....


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## cy (Jul 19, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

M6 uses 3x CR123 in series/ parallel arangement. so M6 uses a 9V bulb simular to 9V M3T bulb, but draws more current. M3T, M4 and M6 bulbs share same base size w/same focal point. M4 bulbs are rated for 12V operation. 

there's been past threads of folks boring out their M4 to accept 2x 18650, driving NM21



batman said:


> However, what if? What If if I took my M3 turbo, added 3 A-19 cell extenders ( to have 6 X CR 123 cells) and used the appropriate M6 Mn20/21 lamp assemblies? Would I have an M6 or would i just have a long stick in my hand? My guess is instaflash first, then a long stick in my hand - possibly venting flame from the business end? Any help here?
> Brad


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## batman (Jul 19, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

dang


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## Big Bob (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Given that the turbo heads supplied with the KT1 and KT2 are identical, it has never made a lot of sense to me that the user is not given the option to purchase the turbo head and then to separately acquire the lamp assembly that he/she wishes (N1, N2, MN15, MN16, MN60, MN61) depending on the user's configuration (2, 3 or 4 cell) and preference. This is exactly the way we purchase bezels. I find myself wondering how many N1's and N2's from KT1's and KT2's are lying around unused.


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## schrenz (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



Size15's said:


> I always thought I should have got a 12ZM rather than a 12PM, and also, I've always *wanted a Z3* but never purchased one. Strange that I go for the 7Z which is inbetween and not much use!
> (The reason I got it was because it came with a T4 TurboHead which is rare)
> 
> Al


First thanks to Bob for bumping my most beloved threat !
Al: Last week a rather new Z3 had been sold on ebay *UK :laughing: *
I've forgotten to take part in the auction 
Jens


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## Size15's (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



timber said:


> In one of your pictures you have a 6P with two(2) A-19 extenders (4 cells total) and a KT-2 TurboHead. What lamp assemblies do you run in it? The MN60 and MN61? If so does it run alot hotter than in the M4 TurboHead? Will it shut down?



Yes, four-SF123A batteries require the MN60, MN61 or N62 lamp assemblies.

I doubt there is much difference between using the KT TurboHead and the Millennium TurboHead with regards to heat - the reflector shape is the same but the shock isolated Millennium TurboHead reflector 'floats' inside where as the KT TurboHead attached/part of the bezel so if anything the KT TurboHead has better thermal management.
The MN60 and MN61 should not cause the batteries to go into 'thermal shutdown' unless the air temperature was already very high.

I do NOT suggest you use a 6P and two A19's - the resistance at each joint means the batteries are working harder and I've noticed the peak output runtime is reduced compared to the M4/12PM in side-by-side comparisons I made.

Three-SF123A bodies plus A19 are slightly less of a concern in this regard I think.

Al


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## Timber (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Thanks Size15's. I'll go with a 9P + A19 extender with the KT2 Turbohead and the MN60 and MN61 lamp assemblies. I assume there is no difference in lamp 'focus' between the KT2 and Millennium TurboHeads using these lamp assemblies?

I don't quite understand the extra resistance of the A19's but will take your suggestion and use only one. Your explanation of heat management of the KT2 vs. Millennium TurboHeads is logical and makes sense. 

Timber


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## Size15's (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



Timber said:


> I assume there is no difference in lamp 'focus' between the KT2 and Millennium TurboHeads using these lamp assemblies?


Correct. The beams produced are the same (subject to lamp/reflector combination variations of course)



Timber said:


> I don't quite understand the extra resistance of the A19's but will take your suggestion and use only one.


Everytime you introduce a pair of contact surfaces you are increasing the resistance because the contact is never 100% (as if it didn't exist at all).


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## Timber (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Thanks Size15's for the explanation of extender resistance. I see it's best to not use more than one extender.

Can't wait to see the MN61/KT2/9P/A19 vs. the standard P90/9P.

Timber


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## AilSnail (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



> MN60, MN61 & N62 are interchangeable (But N62 should not be used in WeaponLights or heavy-use Tactical "CombatLights" such as the M4.



Is the n62 more fragile then, than the others?
does anyone know the amperage and voltage of it? did anybody use li-ion with it?
I have what was described here as the old style T, with N1 but no body - trying to acquire an n62. was thinking of using a plastic body, but what sort of adapter would be needed?


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## Size15's (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

The N-type Lamp Assemblies (such as the N62 and N2) have a shorter outer spring contact and when used in a shock isolated TurboHead subjected to heavy recoil and/or abusive use this spring contact can become compressed and no provide reliable contact which results in the light not activating some or all of the time. It has nothing to do with the bulb.


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## AilSnail (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

nice, thanks.


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## AilSnail (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Is the N2 and N5 of similar filament size/ beam shape?


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## Size15's (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



AilSnail said:


> Is the N2 and N5 of similar filament size/ beam shape?


Yes the beams are similar shape and size.


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## AilSnail (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Oh, there IS a plastic body that fits the T.. I was thinking of the "cheap" G2, which you mentioned needed an adapter..

Anyways, I have done some napkin calcs to find rechargeable options for the T head - based on very rough assumptions! I figure the N62, would sag the 123 pri cells to about 2.2-2.3v total 8.8-9.2v. This is too much for two Li-ion, and way too little for three fresh ones! So either an 8series of NiMH, or some of the newer li high power chemistries, or even a voltage drop cirquit.

For the 100lm+ lamps, N2 and N5, then: Based on the 1c discharge, the N2 should draw 1,3A - the voltage would be around 7.5. Two li-ion 123 might give from 7.8v and downwards a bit - seems like a fit?
If the B90 3xnimh stack were sagging to 3.3v, and the bulb is less efficient because of the lower voltage, it might draw about 3,5A? If the b90 can hold 3,6v for a few seconds at least (it should), then _maybe the N5 would not blow too fast on a single 18650 Li-Ion?

Anyways, if someone were to come up with better estimates, I'd be happy._


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## AilSnail (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

These a123 C cells might be pushing the n62 a bit? Otherwise 3xsaphion looks like they would go from 9,6v and down at 5A. It's not like one would like to experiment too much with overdriving these bulbs.


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## AilSnail (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Thanks JS, for pointing me to brocks page - answers alot.


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## Size15's (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



AilSnail said:


> Oh, there IS a plastic body that fits the T.. I was thinking of the "cheap" G2, which you mentioned needed an adapter..



The KT5 TurboHead Kit featuring the N5 Lamp Assembly has a collar to attach it to the 8AX/L7/8NX body which houses the B90 NiCad battery stick.

The KT1 TurboHead Kit featuring the N1 Lamp Assembly has a collar to attach it to the standard two-SF123A body such as the 6P or G2.

These collars are not sold as individual items - they form part of the TurboHead Kits.


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## AilSnail (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Ah.. so that means, since I have a _T_1, that I could use a G2. Nice!


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## Size15's (Nov 24, 2006)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



AilSnail said:


> Ah.. so that means, since I have a _T_1, that I could use a G2. Nice!


Yes - the KT1 replaced the T1 for two-SF123A powered standard-body SureFires such as the 6P/G2 etc.


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## cy (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

hmmm... turbo head madness


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## wquiles (Mar 11, 2007)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*


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## benchmade_boy (Mar 12, 2007)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

does anyone know if a surefire N1 will run on 1x18650?


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## Strauss (Mar 12, 2007)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



benchmade_boy said:


> does anyone know if a surefire N1 will run on 1x18650?


 
I think it's worth a shot


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Mar 12, 2007)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Turboheads are awesome!


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## ninjaboigt (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*


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## sween1911 (Oct 1, 2008)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

BTTT. This is an excellent thread with great references for those trying to mix and match. Recently there have been some questions, so I'm cranking this up for people.


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## rx78gp02 (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*



sween1911 said:


> BTTT. This is an excellent thread with great references for those trying to mix and match. Recently there have been some questions, so I'm cranking this up for people.



amen to that. If i haven't seen this thread, i would have been making another post of lots of questions.

I've been thinking of using the ho-m6r in my m3t with 3 rcr123a (the 3.6volts ones).
I know it states on the website that it can run on 3 rcr123a, but has anyone tried this?

Here's what they say on their site:
Model No. : HO-M6R (13V, 700 Lumens) High Output Lamp Assembly 




Description : HO-M6R High Output 13V, 700 Lumens High Output Lamp Assembly
(For 6 x RCR123A M Series Flashlights)

-High Output Ultra High Pressure Xenon Lamp (700 Lumens)
-Highest Achievable Colour Temperature (3350K)
-Unique Filament Design
-Precision Machined Aluminum Lamp Assembly
-Every Lamp Assembly is Pre-Focused for the Ultimate Spot
-Compatible with all Flashlights that use the M Series Xenon Lamp Assemblies.


Compatible with:

Surefire®
M6 using 6 x RCR123A Rechargeable
Modified M3T/M4: 3 x 3.7V Rechargeable

Runtime (RCR123A): ~35 min
Runtime (3.7V Rechargeable): ~50 mins.


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## nzgunnie (Oct 2, 2008)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

It says it can run for 35 mins on 6x RCR123s, not on _3x_ RCR123s...

It's designed to be used with the M6, which if you have read this post you will understand uses 2 sticks of 3 batteries, in parallel with each other.

This bulb draws 2.1 amps, that is over 3C (or a discharge rate 3 times the cells capacity). This is very dangerous, and will fry your poor little cells in no time, possibly causing them to go . I would suggest you need to do a wee bit more research on the hazards of using Li-ion cells, especially in high current, series applications.

If you look closely at the table, LF only recommends the very much larger 18650s for this lamp for 3x series application. Leef make a M series, 3x18650 body that would work for this.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tread*

Excellent reference topic!


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## nzgunnie (Jan 16, 2010)

Although battery technology has overtaken some of the info, with the introduction of IMR cells.


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## ebow86 (Jul 21, 2011)

Sorry guys, I know this is an old thread. After reading through this I want to clarify something. I have a Surefire 8AX, and from what I'm understanding I should be able to run either an SRTH or a 3 inch T series turbohead using the adapter collar I have from my current KT5. Is that correct?


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## Size15's (Jul 22, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> Sorry guys, I know this is an old thread. After reading through this I want to clarify something. I have a Surefire 8AX, and from what I'm understanding I should be able to run either an SRTH or a 3 inch T series turbohead using the adapter collar I have from my current KT5. Is that correct?


Yes. The SRTH and T-Series TurboHeads accept the N5 lamp assembly and attach via the KT5 adapter collar to the 8AX/8NX.


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## ebow86 (Jul 22, 2011)

Size15's said:


> Yes. The SRTH and T-Series TurboHeads accept the N5 lamp assembly and attach via the KT5 adapter collar to the 8AX/8NX.



Thanks for clarifying AL, I knew you would once you saw my question. What's your personal opinion on the SRTH vs T vs KT when running the N5 LA? I suspect the SRTH will probably come out on top of your list but lets wait and see.

By the way, isn't the 8AX+KT5 a beautiful combo? I've only had mine about a month now and just love it. The N5 is my first N series LA and it produces such a beautiful, tight, round hotspot. Now that I'm running the KT5 on my 8AX to be honest I don't even want to look at the X80, not that theirs anything particually wrong with it, it's just the N5 +KT is soooo much better IMHO.


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## ebow86 (Jul 24, 2011)

Two small gripes about running the KT5 on an 8AX. 

1. Without the B90 in the tube the LA will fall right out of the head into the tube, therefore you have to have the battery in at all times if you don't want your LA rolling around in the tube.

2. I would have like for the turbohead to thread a little deeper onto the body before activating the LA. It will never be an issue for me personally, but I'm always afraid someone who isn't familiar with the 8AX is going to become confused and try to active the light by turning the bezel the wrong direction, therefore having the KT5 fall right off the body because they twisted it a little too much in the opposite direction.

Other than that a great general purpose light.


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## Size15's (Jul 24, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> Thanks for clarifying AL, I knew you would once you saw my question. What's your personal opinion on the SRTH vs T vs KT when running the N5 LA? I suspect the SRTH will probably come out on top of your list but lets wait and see.
> 
> By the way, isn't the 8AX+KT5 a beautiful combo? I've only had mine about a month now and just love it. The N5 is my first N series LA and it produces such a beautiful, tight, round hotspot. Now that I'm running the KT5 on my 8AX to be honest I don't even want to look at the X80, not that theirs anything particually wrong with it, it's just the N5 +KT is soooo much better IMHO.


I only have the 8NX+KT5 combination as I don't have an 8AX/L7.






I really like both the 9NT and 9ANKT. They are very different and I'm not sure which one I prefer the most:




Better than the 8AXKT IMHO :nana:

Regarding which TurboHead produces the 'best' beam from the N5 Lamp Assembly...
There are three considerations:
1) Risk of ruining an irreplaceable TurboHead by having a bulb explode - my use of TurboHeads has significantly decreased mores the pity because of this.

2) Ease of carry and use - the T-Series TurboHead is huge and difficult to carry.

3) Quality of beam for the sake of the beam, or for the ability to use the beam to illuminate a task - the most beautiful beams don't always mean they are the most useful.

The T5 beam is beautiful. The SRTH beam is great and more practical.
The KT5 beam is great and the KT TurboHead is something I feel more comfortable actually using. The X80 beam doesn't hold a candle to them I agree!


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## ebow86 (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks AL, your 8NX+KT5 is the same thing as my 8AX+KT5 just a different body so anything you say regarding your 8NX should apply the same to my 8AX as well. Funny you never ended up with a 8AX though, I guess it's never too late. I have a 8NX on the way as we speak, got it in a trade over on CPFM, so soon I'll have dueling commanders. I have to say it's nice to know someone still has an interest in these "old and outdated" surefire models like we're discussing here. It makes me sad that I entered the surefire game so late on and now I will probably never get to experience alot of the older lights, lamps and turboheads, some of them are such rarity's I probably couldn't find what I wanted even if I had lots of cash to spare. Well atleast I have fine members like yourself and other's who have contributed so much over the years, I very much enjoy going back and reading alot of the older threads, back when the tungsten filament was still king.


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## Size15's (Jul 24, 2011)

The lack if LockOut of the 8-Series is an issue for me


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## ebow86 (Jul 24, 2011)

Size15's said:


> The lack if LockOut of the 8-Series is an issue for me


 
I can understand that, however the 8AX/NX has the most solid, simple, and fail proof switching of any surefire light that comes to mind, and I think thats worth taking into consideration. Even if the 8AX switch failed (it never would because of it's simple design) I could always resort to the bezel activation. I never have to worry about my 8AX switch failing me.


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## ebow86 (Nov 15, 2011)

Not to drag the thread on but on the subject again of Surfire lamps and turboheads I though I would quickly throw in my thoughts and observations regarding the KT5 turbohead and N5 LA. I've had some time to do some compairsons.

The N5 beam from the KT5 is vastly superior in quality and usefulness when compared to the stock bezel and X80 LA, however, I have found there is a slight, but definitely noticeable decrease in brightness and whiteness when the X80 is beside the N5. I would estimate a difference of between 5 and 10 lumens.

I don't own a magnifying glass, so I can't be sure if the filament of the two lamps are the same, however, the X80 is using a much larger, clear globe whereas the N5 has a much smaller globe, but most importantly, the tip is frosted, and this is what is most likely causing the decrease in output. I've done many tests swapping lamps and battery's and the results are always the same. With that said, the N5 is a much better beam that I would take any day over the X80.

The 8 series are good lights, but this is one of the rare instances where Surefire has overrated the output of these lights. They are no where near the claimed 110 lumen rating. A P90 is easily brighter and whiter, and I don't believe the output is much greater than a P60, and even then the P60 is whiter. I estimate the 8NX/8AX to be around 80 lumens hot off the charger and an average of 60 lumens would be an honest rating.


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## slappomatt (Nov 25, 2011)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Can any of the non "C" KT heads like the KT-5 be made to fit a C style body with an adapter? or does anyone know where I can find a KT-1 or 2 for a decent price? Thanks.


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## Size15's (Nov 25, 2011)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*



slappomatt said:


> Can any of the non "C" KT heads like the KT-5 be made to fit a C style body with an adapter? or does anyone know where I can find a KT-1 or 2 for a decent price? Thanks.



The "KT" type TurboHead is used by the KT1 and KT2 TurboHead Kits with the adapter collar for standard-body SureFires such as the 6P and 9P, and it is also used by the KT5 TurboHead Kit with the adapter collar for the 8-Series rechargeables (8X, 8AX, 8NX & L7).

So yes, the KT TurboHead from the KT5 will fit on the adapter collar from the KT1/KT2, and also the T1/T2/T4, SRTH and screw into the LeopardLight's L120M Lamp Module Housing Body.

SureFire do not use dashes "-" between the letters and numbers of a model. The dash is used between the model and the finish, and any specific light output colour reference. For example "KT1-BK" and "KT5-HA".
There is a noteworthy exception (as there usually is) relevant to this topic and that's the "T-62" which is LeopardLight's replacement TurboHead & N62 Lamp Assembly combination (akin the R90/R95). The T-62 features the so-called "Threaded Rim TurboHead (TRTH) that was also offered on the 12ZM and 12PM Tactical Entry Lights. The SRTH (Short Rim TurboHead) was a later more compact version since SureFire never formally released the screw-in IR BeamFilter for the TRTH.

SureFire never offered the TurboHead adapter collars individually, and all TurboHeads that needed adapter collars were always sold as part of TurboHead Kits with the necessary adapter collar and appropriate Lamp Assembly.


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## slappomatt (Nov 26, 2011)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*

Thanks for the informative reply. I have ALWAYS wanted a leef bodied light with a surefire turbo head since I saw one here. Its my wholy grail light. I see that they have the KT-5 for a really good price from LAPG but I have no idea where I would get a C adapter for it. Also leef bodies are almost gone except for the 3 18650 ones. but I guess that would do. Maybe I will just sack up and buy the real deal M4 and call it good. I can get a display model at a local store for about 200.


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## Ninja (Sep 15, 2015)

*Re: The lamps and batteries for SF Turbo heads tre*



Size15's said:


> ... So yes, the KT TurboHead from the KT5 will fit on the adapter collar from the KT1/KT2, and also the T1/T2/T4, SRTH and screw into the LeopardLight's L120M Lamp Module Housing Body ... & N62 Lamp Assembly combination (akin the R90/R95)... The T-62 features the so-called "Threaded Rim TurboHead (TRTH)...



Was there a N62 LED tower lamp made for the LeopardLight or MN60 & MN61 that can work with the L120M (above)?


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