# Beamshots A2 L2 SL K2 E1L L1 E1B P3D R100 Q5 M60 EO9 P60 P61 P90 P91 EO9 HOR5 MN16 M6



## EV_007 (Jul 13, 2008)

Very pic heavy... dial up users beware...

So all this talk about beamshots and seeing them inspired me to go out to the back yard and snap a few of my own comparing some of the popular lights and lamp assemblies.

This series of images only shows overall brightness compared to other lights. This is only ONE variable in a flashlight. There is also form factor, size, power source and user interface that also play into the overall characteristics of a flashlight.

You can get pretty good beamshots even when ambient light is present in the city or burbs in my case. For example, the streetlight actually acts as a constant point of reference which shows the exposure locked down and is pretty consistent from shot to shot. Also this is a "standard" object which everyone knows.

I also have a picnic table and a cardboard box in the "target" area in the name of standardized consistency.

I overexposed the series slightly to show the spill of the beams rather than the detail in the hotspot. If I were more ambitious and not getting eatin' by mosquitoes, I would have bracketed one above and below the average settings.

I also found an interesting feature with the software that came with my camera. When downloading images to the PC, it gives you brightness histogram of EACH image. Thought it would be useful in seeing the brightness level graphed out. The control shot shows the camera settings for all the shot in the series. I wanted to bracket and do three different distance shots, but the bugs were attracted by all the lumens. Go figure eh? I think the neighbors thought I was looking for a prowler or something. 
 I now see why people don't like to do beamshots in the city. 

The 50 feet mark would be average distance most people would encounter when using lights outdoors. The yard goes back to 150 FT, but again the bugs put a kobosch to that idea.

I used the low on my A2 YG to make notes during the shots which I found extremely well adapted for close up night work. A table was another helpful item to have when comparing lights so that you can lay them out.








Tree and picnic table and cardboard box in shadow. I did a second series of shots a couple of nights later, thus the images may not line up exactly, however, the distance to subject and camera settings remain the same.






























































The two Malkoff M60 drop-ins I received were slightly different in tint from each other. Both are by far the nicest LEDs I've seen in terms of overall output and tint. I prefer the warmer version.









Quick look at similar powered incan and LEDs side by side.






This is the E1B with the F04 setup along with the E2D tailcap for tail standing with teeth.












Just a quick lineup of the top "brightest" performers of the night. The M6 MN21 on primaries which have been in there for a few months. The M3T CB powered by AW 2x17670s (A19 cell extender not shown) and the WF500 with Lumens Factory HO-R5 bulb run on AW 2x18650s. 










The M6 in stock form.


SureFire measure the lumens from the light that actually comes out of the front of the lens whereas most other manufacturers measure and advertise their lumens at the bulb. This is why the higher lumen ratings on non-SureFire lights do not appear brighter than SureFires. Example the MN16 rated at 225 lumens in the SureFire M3T is brighter than the 630 lumen HO-R5. They are housed in similar sized reflectors.

The HO-R5 is quite a performer for the money in the Ultrafire WF500 package. 

*UPDATE:* I decided to "play" with the WF500 the other night and when I clicked on the light, no joy! The tailcap did not click in all the way. I opened it up to see if I can fix it, but he cheap soder joint came loose. The switches on lights is the weak link IMHO since it is a moving part. Very disappointed that it went out without warning and only on its first charge too. The Ultrafire batteries got tossed long ago. I guess you do get what you pay for. I was able to get it to light by unscrewing the cap and removing the metal ring, but now it only goes on when screwed in half way. All is not lost, but safe to say I will not be buying fauxations anymore.


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## CandlePowerForumsUser (Jul 13, 2008)

*Re: Beamshots E1B E1L E1L P3D Z5 REBEL 100 Malkoff M60 LF EO9 P60 P61 P90 P91 MN16 HO*

awesome. that M6 is BRIGHT!


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## Not So Bright (Jul 13, 2008)

Nice work.
Thanks for the effort.
Does the P3d R100 look as good as your warm Malkoff in person? I like my Rebel lights for thier warm tints. :twothumbs


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## climberkid (Jul 13, 2008)

this page is being saved to a folder on my desktop for future reference. thats sweet. awesome job and thanks for sacrificing your body to the bugs to do this!


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## EV_007 (Jul 13, 2008)

Not So Bright said:


> Nice work.
> Thanks for the effort.
> Does the P3d R100 look as good as your warm Malkoff in person? I like my Rebel lights for thier warm tints. :twothumbs



The Rebel 100 appears a little bit greener to my eyes compared to the warm version of my M60.

The Rebels have nicer tints in general compared to the other LEDs. They don't seem to put out as much light, but that's not a huge trade off.


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## EV_007 (Jul 13, 2008)

climberkid said:


> this page is being saved to a folder on my desktop for future reference. thats sweet. awesome job and thanks for sacrificing your body to the bugs to do this!



All in the name of lumens. :twothumbs 

I only had 3 bug bites when all said and done. They buzzed around more than anything else. I tried not to stand still for them either.


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## Riddick (Jul 13, 2008)

WOW!!!

Thats dedication:thumbsup:


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## digitaldave (Jul 13, 2008)

THanks for posting these beam shots, I'm sure they will prove a very useful reference point .

Sadly for me, they have muddled up my Surefire purchasing decision . I've been looking at the E1L vs L1, and I thought I'd decided on the E1L, but those beam shots make it look positively anaemic! And it's interesting to see that the E1B is about the same as the L1 - from what I've read, I had the impression that the difference on high between all three isn't that great, but these shots say otherwise.

Regards,

Dave.


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## CLHC (Jul 13, 2008)

Way to go on those photonic shots! :thumbsup:

I tried taking beamshot pictures of my flashlights, but since I'm no photo-graph-er, it didn't come out. . .:shakehead


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## Fooboy (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm on page 1 of this epic thread! 

Nice job EV!


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## BigHonu (Jul 13, 2008)

Great shots!

Those smaller SF incan vs LED shots at the end are great.


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## abarth_1200 (Jul 13, 2008)

wow that rebel 100 looks so much better than the Q5, damn anyone know where i can get one or wanting to trade for my Q5


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## Paul520 (Jul 13, 2008)

Excellent! On your Surefire P60 shot, what was the host?
(ie- Would a 6P look like this?)


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## EV_007 (Jul 13, 2008)

Paul520 said:


> Excellent! On your Surefire P60 shot, what was the host?
> (ie- Would a 6P look like this?)




It was the G2. yes, the 6P and any other two cell host from SureFire will make the P60 look this way. Its a good classic Lamp Assembly.


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## Paul520 (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks a lot, EV! That is more than I expected at the 50 ft. mark from the 6P. This beginner will be getting one now. And a Lumens Factory upgrade if needed.:twothumbs


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## 270winchester (Jul 13, 2008)

thanks for all the beam shots, very nice work there.

interesting how the M6's 500 lumen lamp killed the Lumen Factory "630 lumen" lamp.

I guess Lumen factory needs to find a more honest way of rating their lamps.


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## adamlau (Jul 13, 2008)




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## EV_007 (Jul 13, 2008)

Nice thumbnails Adam. Gives a good snapshot all on one page.


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## EV_007 (Jul 13, 2008)

270winchester said:


> thanks for all the beam shots, very nice work there.
> 
> interesting how the M6's 500 lumen lamp killed the Lumen Factory "630 lumen" lamp.
> 
> I guess Lumen factory needs to find a more honest way of rating their lamps.



Remember, most manufacturers advertise bulb lumens, not torch lumens like SureFire does which actually gets measured after the light is reflected/absorbed by the reflector and lens.

Surefire may even under rate their lumens.The M6 on fresh cells is probably putting out around 650 lumens out the front.
:thumbsup:


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## Fooboy (Jul 13, 2008)

This thread is dying for an animated gif.


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## adamlau (Jul 13, 2008)

*Dial-Up Warning: Animated GIF File Size = 1.5MB*​






*Animated Notes*1. Frame delay looped at 300 centiseconds (3 seconds).​


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## Paul520 (Jul 13, 2008)

IMO these are some of the nicest useful beamshots I've seen here.


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## DM51 (Jul 14, 2008)

That is a comprehensive range of lights, and a useful and wide-ranging comparison. 

Very nice work also by adamlau with the thumbnails and the gif.


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## Fooboy (Jul 14, 2008)

Ev - the L1 you tested was a frostie right?


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## Solscud007 (Jul 14, 2008)

thank you. those are nice. I like the histogram too. where did you pull the histogram from?

Also the more I read about the M6 the more that I am glad that i bought one haha. it is like the mini-Beast.


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## gallagho (Jul 14, 2008)

Really nice comparison set :thumbsup:

>The HO-R5 is quite a performer for the money in the Ultrafire WF500 package.

+1 I was slightly underwhelmed when I received my M6 and compared it with my WF-500(HO-R5) 

In terms of spill M6 has it, it's a fantastic beam. However for throw the WF-500 is right there with it.

Owen


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## jumpstat (Jul 14, 2008)

First up thanks for sharing the beamshots EV_007. Also thanks to adamlau for the tnails and gif, excellent work.

The SF M6 is the rocks! I do wish for one.


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## MichaelW (Jul 14, 2008)

If the P3D is neutral white, I'd love to see a Warm white Rebel.

Good picts.


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## EV_007 (Jul 14, 2008)

Fooboy said:


> Ev - the L1 you tested was a frostie right?



It is the same L1 I reviewed found on my signature. I would say slightly frosted/textured.


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## EV_007 (Jul 14, 2008)

Solscud007 said:


> thank you. those are nice. I like the histogram too. where did you pull the histogram from?
> 
> Also the more I read about the M6 the more that I am glad that i bought one haha. it is like the mini-Beast.




The histogram is copied from the image viewer software that came with my camera.


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## CLHC (Jul 14, 2008)

*Sticky! ! !*


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## EV_007 (Jul 14, 2008)

CLHC said:


> *Sticky! ! !*



Wow, thanks for the vote. I'm going to add more lights to this collection of beamshots. I'll try to refine this as time goes on as well as when I acquire new lights. Perhaps shots of the lights themselves next to the beamshots would be useful.


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## nzgunnie (Jul 14, 2008)

Certainly some of the most useful beamshots I've seen, especially for making comparisons. Very well done.

I think the street light and ambient light is a useful feature too, it does help with the comparisons.


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## EV_007 (Jul 16, 2008)

Resized images and added more lights to the line up.


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## santza (Jul 17, 2008)

Very nice! Thank you. That WF-500 with LF lamp looks very nice. Now i'm wondering if I should get one instead of kt2 turbohead+EO-M3T


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## EV_007 (Jul 17, 2008)

santza said:


> Very nice! Thank you. That WF-500 with LF lamp looks very nice. Now i'm wondering if I should get one instead of kt2 turbohead+EO-M3T




There is a slight price difference, however remember brightness is only ONE factor in the overall characteristic of a light.


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## Icebreak (Jul 17, 2008)

That's some fine work there, EV_007. I know it isn't any small effort. I did some shots last night of just four lights and just doing the shots took close to an hour. Used up some battery juice too. I got more mythical "spinners" than clean shots.

This, another of your contributions to our knowledge base, has considerable value in that it is terrifically useful for many members. Thank you very much.


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## Chongker (Jul 18, 2008)

270winchester said:


> thanks for all the beam shots, very nice work there.
> 
> interesting how the M6's 500 lumen lamp killed the Lumen Factory "630 lumen" lamp.
> 
> I guess Lumen factory needs to find a more honest way of rating their lamps.


 


EV_007 said:


> Remember, most manufacturers advertise bulb lumens, not torch lumens like SureFire does which actually gets measured after the light is reflected/absorbed by the reflector and lens.
> 
> Surefire may even under rate their lumens.The M6 on fresh cells is probably putting out around 650 lumens out the front.
> :thumbsup:


 

I agree that more flashlight manufacturers should try and rate their flashlights more like Surefire, but Lumens Factory should be excempted from this. Why? Because they don't produce flashlights, they make *lamp assemblies*. It wouldn't be right for them to measure torch lumens from the front of a flashlight as they don't even produce flashlights to measure from. The lumens you'd get would differ slightly between which flashlight you put the LA's in, though the estimated "true" lumen rating of the LF bulbs would be their rated lumens multiplied by a coefficient of 0.65. Another thing, Surefire takes their ratings somewhere in the middle of the batteries life, so the max lumens of the M6 on fresh primaries would likely be more than 500 lumens. Why LF doesn't do this and instead takes max lumens is because run time would differ depending on what set up of batteries the LA's are run on.

So all in all, LF gives valid and honest lumen ratings, they're just different from Surefire, for good reason as well. That said, the beamshot for the M6 looks awesome :thumbsup: . Have to get myself one someday, envy all you lucky owners . Oh well, my M4 will suffice for now .

Ohh, and also kudos to the OP for some great beamshots :twothumbs. And on a sidenote thanks to mdocod for all his posts from which I read and learnt about why LF lumen ratings seemed so outrageously over-rated.


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## Blue72 (Jul 18, 2008)

Awesome Thread.......


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## EV_007 (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, that is a good point about Lumens Factory manufacturing bubs only, thus rating them as such. I do not fault them at all. They have given me more options in the incan department which I'm excited about. 

I suppose it goes same for drop-ins as well since it is the module/assembly that is measured, which again is totally understandable.

I'm surprised at the amount of light loss when reflecting off of and passing through the lens of a flashlight compared to bulb lumens.

Fashlight companies that produce the actual light, measuring them out the front (torch lumens) would be more consistent, especially useful for potential buyers when comparing them from brand to brand.

Of course advertizing the highest lumen they can get away with is clever marketing.

Advertiziing troch lumens with batteries half drained would be the most realistic form of measuring brightness, although I'd even settle for out the front lumens measured with fresh cells. But then again, that may not bode well for "marketing" purposes for many flashlight comapanies. Again which is understandable.


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## DM51 (Jul 20, 2008)

I have added this thread to the "Threads of Interest" sticky in this forum.


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## Icebreak (Jul 26, 2008)

Here's few beamshots, not nearly as good as yours, that are in alignment with your thread. I have a fourth, a custom WA1166 in a 26mm, which is the reason I took the shots. It's in its own thread in incandescents titled "Diameter 26 mm: I want more power. Beamshots" . A pointing link might not be appropriate in an OT kinda way. Anyway, here's my fumblesome contribution:

Locked point and shoot.

45 yards.

Malkoff M60 in a 6P using two AW RCR123s






P91 in a Z3 using 3 primary CR 123s





EO-9L in a Pila GL4 using two Pila cells





Same shots just cropped:

Malkoff M60 in a 6P using two AW RCR123s





P91 in a Z3 using 3 primary CR 123s





EO-9L in a Pila GL4 using two Pila cells


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## JetskiMark (Jul 26, 2008)

DM51 said:


> That is a comprehensive range of lights, and a useful and wide-ranging comparison.
> 
> Very nice work also by adamlau with the thumbnails and the gif.



I could not agree more.

It is interesting to see SureFire torch lumens compared to the others bulb and emitter lumens.


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## EV_007 (Jul 27, 2008)

Nice shots Icebreak. The light painting is nice too. Much patience is required for such an undertaking. 

Wow, looks like you ha more bugs buzzin' around you than I did.


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## KDOG3 (Jul 27, 2008)

Wow great work. I like how the L1 and E1B pretty much have the same output. Thinking of picking up an E1B again...


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## Juggernaut (Jul 28, 2008)

What’s really interesting is that while the L.F. HO-R5’s 630 lumens is about the same as the S.F. M3T MN 16’s 225 lumens. The L.F. EO-9’s 380 is indeed brighter than the S.F. P91’s 200 lumens. What’s up with that? At first L.F. 630=S.F.225 than L.F.380>S.F.200. I guess the EO-9 is really good. That’s cool If I ever get a surefire, I was going to get a P9, well if I do, I’ll go with the L.F. upgrade over S.F.


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## joco (Jul 31, 2008)

Wonderful pictures. My favorite incan is the LF H09 with two 18500's powering it. I had assumed that there would be only a slight difference between the H09 and the E09, but now I think that I may be wrong. If you have an H09, could you include it in your photos?

John


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## EV_007 (Oct 25, 2008)

joco said:


> Wonderful pictures. My favorite incan is the LF H09 with two 18500's powering it. I had assumed that there would be only a slight difference between the H09 and the E09, but now I think that I may be wrong. If you have an H09, could you include it in your photos?
> 
> John




I want to try the HO9 someday. I do not have it in my humble collection... yet.


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## etc (Oct 27, 2008)

Great work.


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## manoloco (Oct 27, 2008)

Thanks EV_007! this is a nice reference specially on Surefire lights, would be nice if this can be at least on the reviews section so it doesnt get lost in so many posts.


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## litetube (Oct 27, 2008)

Great pics for comparison. I am really confused now with the SF L1 and E1b though . 
I know SF underates the output in general on these types of lights but if the E1b is 80L and the L1 is 65L then why does the L1 seem just a teeny bit briter? I know the L1 has just a bit mor spill but the hotspot is briter to me also. Using the underrated theory the E1b should be 80-100 lumens and the L1 65-80 but ..........
I guess a possible over performing super L1 is in play here? Kinda wish I had the L1 now though


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## EV_007 (Nov 13, 2008)

litetube said:


> Great pics for comparison. I am really confused now with the SF L1 and E1b though .
> I know SF underates the output in general on these types of lights but if the E1b is 80L and the L1 is 65L then why does the L1 seem just a teeny bit briter? I know the L1 has just a bit mor spill but the hotspot is briter to me also. Using the underrated theory the E1b should be 80-100 lumens and the L1 65-80 but ..........
> I guess a possible over performing super L1 is in play here? Kinda wish I had the L1 now though



I like the low to high interface of the L1. The beam is not as focused as the E1B. To the naked eye, the E1B throws slightly further than the L1, but the L1 has more of a usable spill, although the compactness of the E1B coupled with the F04 diffuser gives you that extra versatility from flood to spot.


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## LED61 (Nov 14, 2008)

Juggernaut said:


> What’s really interesting is that while the L.F. HO-R5’s 630 lumens is about the same as the S.F. M3T MN 16’s 225 lumens. The L.F. EO-9’s 380 is indeed brighter than the S.F. P91’s 200 lumens. What’s up with that? At first L.F. 630=S.F.225 than L.F.380>S.F.200. I guess the EO-9 is really good. That’s cool If I ever get a surefire, I was going to get a P9, well if I do, I’ll go with the L.F. upgrade over S.F.


 
The difference between the EO9 and the P91 has to do with the batteries powering them. On equal power, the P91 is brighter.


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## RobertM (Nov 14, 2008)

EV_007 said:


> I like the low to high interface of the L1. The beam is not as focused as the E1B. To the naked eye, the E1B throws slightly further than the L1, but the L1 has more of a usable spill, although the compactness of the E1B coupled with the F04 diffuser gives you that extra versatility from flood to spot.



Man, I already have an E1B, but you guys keep tempting me to get an L1 
Thanks for the awesome thread of beamshots; I continually reference back to this thread when considering different lamps/battery options.


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## bisar_x (Jan 28, 2009)

Awesome :bow:. How about a warm MC-E and a TK20 ?


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## davidt (Jan 28, 2009)

Juggernaut said:


> What’s really interesting is that while the L.F. HO-R5’s 630 lumens is about the same as the S.F. M3T MN 16’s 225 lumens. The L.F. EO-9’s 380 is indeed brighter than the S.F. P91’s 200 lumens. What’s up with that? At first L.F. 630=S.F.225 than L.F.380>S.F.200. I guess the EO-9 is really good. That’s cool If I ever get a surefire, I was going to get a P9, well if I do, I’ll go with the L.F. upgrade over S.F.



I don't believe the MN 16 is outputing 225 lumens. The op was powering the M3T using lithium ions. The lamp is overdriven so the output is more than 225 surefire lumens.

So in reality it should be L.F. 630 > S.F. 225. I'd really like to see the MN16 driven with primaries to see how 225 S.F. lumens compares to the L.F. 630 lumens.


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## EV_007 (Feb 28, 2009)

Yup, plan on re shooting some of the brighter performers with various battery configurations in both primaries and rechargeables. 

Hope to add Gene's latest creations in the line up as well.


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## stallion2 (Dec 31, 2009)

WOW, i know this thread is dead but thanks for the shots......now I want to go and trade all my lights in for Surefires.....except for the MD2, I would keep that. Great reference for future use.


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