# Review of ThruNite Scorpion V2 with outdoor beamshots



## HKJ (Jun 20, 2011)

[SIZE=+3]ThruNite Scorpion V2[/SIZE]














ThruNite has for some time been known for the Catapult (Made in V1, V2, V2 XML and V3), a large and very solid thrower light, but lately they have expanded the range of light with more models, in this review I am going to look at the Scorpion V2 tactical light. This light has five modes (lockout, infinite (variable brightness), firefly, strobe, momentary) that can be selected by turning the tailcap, on/off and momentary is done with an electronic tail switch. The light is made of aluminum with hard-anodized (Type 3) finish. 






The light is delivered in a solid black cardboard box with a wrapper around that shows what model is in the box. Inside is foam with cutouts for light and holster.






The box contains the light, a manual, a warranty card and a holster. There was no o-rings or lanyard.












The light has a smooth reflector with a XM-L led at the bottom, to protect the glass and give the light a solid front it has a stainless steel bezel.









It is possible to unscrew both the bezel and the reflector. The reflector part of of the head uses square cut threads with a o-ring.









As usual on high power lights it has some cooling fins, the rest of the light is covered in knurling.









The light has a removable clip and it is easy to remove, remove the tailcap and loosen the lock ring (There are no o-rings to remove), now the clip and be removed or mounted again.






The tailcap is unscrewed by turning on the antiroll roll ring or the knurling just behind the ring. The ring works very well for antiroll, but is not very good for holding the light cigar style.






The tailcap is mounted with square cut threads, but there is no o-ring on the outside.









Looking into the light it can be seen that it uses a spring for + connection, i.e. it will work with flattop batteries. Inside the battery tube there is a plastic insert and just above the insert is a o-ring.












The tailcap is a plastic button and a plastic ring to select mode. The actual function of the button depends on the selected mode. The inside of the tailcap is one big unit. When mounting the tailcap the pins on the tailcap must match a grove in the body, this works automatic, there is no need to do any alignment, just screw it on without using a lot of pressure and the pin will catch the grove.







Lock-out, button is locked half way down (When turning the ring the button will be pulled down).
Infinite, press button to turn on or off, hold it down when turning on and the brightness will change.
Firefly, press button to turn on or off, this is the lowest mode.
Strobe, button is momentary, strobe is always full brightness.
Momentary, button is momentary, on is always full brightness.

This interface makes it possible to select momentary/strobe/firefly mode before turning the light on. If the light is is on in Infinite or Firefly, the tail can be moved to another position and the button pressed to change to that function.












The 3 button position: Lock-out, not-pressed and pressed. Except for the lock-out position, the tailcap can be turned to all the other positions with one finger. All positions has a click-stop.






Here is a adjustment sequence from infinite mode. The button is held down and after 1.5 second the light starts changing brightness, until the button is released again. Both max. and min. is marked with a double flash, there is ample time after the flash to release the button and select min. or max.









The light is supplied with a holster.










ThruNite has also made a turbo head for the light, this has a larger reflector to give more throw. In the beamshot comparison I have included the light with both the regular and with the turbo head.


The Scorpion is a very powerful light for its size and has a simple and flexible user interface that can be controlled with one finger and includes lock-out. With the turbo head it is possible to increase the throw a bit. The light is mostly for 18650 batteries, with CR123 it is best to keep the brightness down and only use full brightness in momentary mode.
I like the light with its high brightness and easy user interface.



[SIZE=+3]Technical specification and measurements[/SIZE]






This light is designed for 2xCR123 and 1x18650 batteries. All sizes of 18650 will work from 65 mm to 70 mm long with button or flat top.

Measured size and weight standard head:
Length: 165 mm
Diameter: 25 mm to 35 mm
Weight: 203 gram with CR123 and 217 gram with AW18650-26

Measured size and weight turbo head:
Length: 173 mm
Diameter: 25 mm to 41 mm
Weight: 220 gram with CR123 and 234 gram with AW18650-26

The light uses a Cree XM-L T6 led, this is a cool white led. ThruNite has also made a limited run with a neutral white led.

Usual a tailcap with controls need a extra connection to the head, but this tailcap get around this and only has the usual connection to the head. To transfer the tailcap selection is used magnets, the selector moves a magnet and the button pushes it forward. Inside the plastic insert in the body is hidden some magnetic sensors (probably reed relays).






In the above table I have collected all modes. I have also included off as a mode, because the light uses a small amount of power. All the estimated runtimes are with a 2600mA LiIon battery. The estimated lumen is scale from the specified maximum. The brightness is a relative measurement from a lux meter.
All the values are measured at 3.7 volt. The battery warning was observed in infinite mode at 2.7 volt.






The first voltage sweep is done in high mode and I have used a couple of minutes for this, at a about 5.6 volt the 1 minute step down can be seen. Some of the brightness drop is all due to temperature.






To get around the 1 minute step down I also did a fast voltage sweep, here the light hits is maximum current drain of 3 ampere. Using RCR123 cells the maximum current drain will be about 2.2 ampere, just before the cell is empty!






At infinite the maximum current drain is about 2.7 ampere.

















Some more curves with different settings in infinite mode.






Runtime again shows that the brightness is depends on battery voltage. On the LiIon track some ticks can be seen from 80 minutes, this is the low battery warning. The light works very well with LiIon cells, reducing the output to a low value and flashing a alarm, before the cell is discharged too much. Using CR123 batteries only gives about 10 minutes at full brightness (Tested with Panasonic cells), they are best used at lower brightness settings!
With two IMR16340 cells the brightness is more stable and it has a decent runtime (35 min), but the light will over discharge them, because the warning is designed for one cell.










The above two traces shows the first 3 minutes with LiIon and CR123 batteries, the specified drop after one minute can be seen, but it is rather small (Note: These curves are made with my high-speed equipment that samples the brightness more than 1000 times each second in the above curves, i.e. any fast variation in brightness is shown).






I did also make a curve of infinite high setting, there is no brightness step down.






The strobe is 10 hz with 50% duty cycle and is using maximal brightness.



[SIZE=+3]Comparison to other Flashlights[/SIZE]

ThruNite Scorpion V2, ThruNite Scorpion V2 with turbo head, Fenix TK21











Fenix TK35, JetBeam BC40, Crelant 7G3, 











For the full comparison to other lights with graphs and beamshots see here





[SIZE=+3]Notes[/SIZE]

The light was supplied by ThruNite for a review.


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## calipsoii (Jun 20, 2011)

Nice review, thank you!

I placed an order for their neutral v2 Scorpion with Turbo head a few days ago. I haven't been this excited for a small thrower in a long time.

I definitely appreciate the runtime graph comparing the IMR cells to the RCR ones. I know the current drain is high but I was hoping I could use my protected 18650's for long runtime instead of having to buy IMR's. Glad to see it will work with both.


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## HKJ (Jun 20, 2011)

calipsoii said:


> I definitely appreciate the runtime graph comparing the IMR cells to the RCR ones. I know the current drain is high but I was hoping I could use my protected 18650's for long runtime instead of having to buy IMR's. Glad to see it will work with both.


 
I did not do runtime with RCR123, if you by RCR means LiCoO2 cells, maybe I better change the "LiIon" label on that chart (It is supposed to mean LiCoO2 18650 cells, more specifically AW18650-26 cells).


Edit: Label has changed on chart.


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## rickypanecatyl (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm curious about the firefly mode - do you think it would be bright enough to read a book at night in a tent with night adjusted vision?

Also any opionions on how strong the tail cap is? If the light was dropped from 1.5 m on the pavement any guestimates as to whether it would survive?

Thanks! Rick


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## HKJ (Jun 21, 2011)

rickypanecatyl said:


> I'm curious about the firefly mode - do you think it would be bright enough to read a book at night in a tent with night adjusted vision?



Easily, but remember that the light has a hotspot, i.e. you will have to move the light around to read a page.




rickypanecatyl said:


> Also any opionions on how strong the tail cap is? If the light was dropped from 1.5 m on the pavement any guestimates as to whether it would survive?


 
It looks solid, but I am not going to test it. I have passed the question to ThruNite, maybe they have a answer.


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## candle lamp (Jun 21, 2011)

Great review and thanks a lot. HKJ!

I can find an black o-ring on the inner side of the battery tube at the tailcap side in my Scorpion V1.
(ie, It is just right behind the plastic insert.)

Did you check the current draw on IMR16340s at tailcap?


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## HKJ (Jun 21, 2011)

candle lamp said:


> I can find an black o-ring on the inner side of the battery tube at the tailcap side in my Scorpion V1.
> (ie, It is just right behind the plastic insert.)



I will check this later today.




candle lamp said:


> Did you check the current draw on IMR16340s at tailcap?


 
No, the light needs the tailcap mounted to work and extending it with two wires did not work. Maybe I need to do a few more experiments with this.
You can guess at the current draw: the IMR cells are rated at 550mAh and they last about 0.5 hour, that would give a average current draw of around 1A at 7.4 volt. The actual current draw will change with battery voltage.


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## candle lamp (Jun 21, 2011)

HKJ said:


> You can guess at the current draw: the IMR cells are rated at 550mAh and they last about 0.5 hour, that would give a average current draw of around 1A at 7.4 volt. The actual current draw will change with battery voltage.


 
Thanks for the reply. 
I've noticed 2xRCR123A are not suitable to run because of excessive discharge ratio.
In this regard, I'd like to estimate the discharge ratio when using 2xRCR123A(750mAh), but can't.
Do you have any idea to predict it?


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## HKJ (Jun 21, 2011)

candle lamp said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> I've noticed 2xRCR123A are not suitable to run because of excessive discharge ratio.
> In this regard, I'd like to estimate the discharge ratio when using 2xRCR123A(750mAh), but can't.
> Do you have any idea to predict it?


 
LiCoO2 has about the same voltage is IMR cells (A bit lower at high currents, due to higher Ri), i.e. they will have close to the same current draw. My guess is that the actual current drain will be below 1.5 ampere, even when the batteries are nearly empty (This is for high mode, momentary will be higher).


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## candle lamp (Jun 21, 2011)

HKJ said:


> LiCoO2 has about the same voltage is IMR cells (A bit lower at high currents, due to higher Ri), i.e. they will have close to the same current draw. My guess is that the actual current drain will be below 1.5 ampere, even when the batteries are nearly empty (This is for high mode, momentary will be higher).


 
1.5A is quite high to RCR123A and almost 2C. So IMR is an alternative.
But "the light will over discharge IMRs, because the warning is designed for one cell" makes surprise me.
Is there any problem on IMR cells when IMRs are over discharged to the very low voltage?

Thanks a lot in advance. HKJ!


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## JKL (Jun 21, 2011)

Excellent review as usual !


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## HKJ (Jun 21, 2011)

candle lamp said:


> Is there any problem on IMR cells when IMRs are over discharged to the very low voltage?



It might not explode, but it will have a very short lifetime.


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## selfbuilt (Jun 21, 2011)

Excellent technical review and write-up HKJ, as usual. :thumbsup:

One question - do you do your runtimes under a cooling fan? I ask because of the apparent difference between our runtimes on 2xCR123A on high. On Titanium Innovation cells (under a cooling fan), I had ~30 mins of relative high power, followed by a slow drop-off. The pattern you show on Panasonic cells looks a lot like what I saw on the earlier Catapults on 4xCR123A (i.e. step down at a certain point, followed by a lower steady state and a rise as the battery nears exhaustion). If you look at my recent Catapult V3 review, you will see a very similar pattern for Catapult V2 SST-50, but not the later V2 XML or V3 XML versions. 

I'm guessing, but I would suspect this has to do with a thermal cut-off feature in the circuit (i.e. the cooling fan is enough to prevent it from going off on my Scorpion/Catapult XM-L based lights, but was insufficient on the older SST-50 model, where the batteries still got too hot). I wasn't aware that Thrunite had continued that circuit feature on the Scorpions. 

Good luck with your investigation of tailcap current draws. It was certainly beyond my ability to figure out how to measure. If anyone can sort it out, it would be you.


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## HKJ (Jun 21, 2011)

selfbuilt said:


> One question - do you do your runtimes under a cooling fan? I ask because of the apparent difference between our runtimes on 2xCR123A on high. On Titanium Innovation cells (under a cooling fan), I had ~30 mins of relative high power, followed by a slow drop-off.



Yes, I nearly always use a cooling fan. Only time I do without cooling fan is low power modes or because I wish to test a temperature shutdown. 
Not only the Cat. shows this type of curve also the Olight M31. I am not sure its is due to a thermo sensor, it might also be due to the battery chemistry at high temperature. 




selfbuilt said:


> Good luck with your investigation of tailcap current draws. It was certainly beyond my ability to figure out how to measure. If anyone can sort it out, it would be you.



If I succeed I will post the result, but the measurement will probably be rather limited in precision (Clamp meter and unspecified battery voltage).


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## HKJ (Jun 21, 2011)

candle lamp said:


> I can find an black o-ring on the inner side of the battery tube at the tailcap side in my Scorpion V1.
> (ie, It is just right behind the plastic insert.)



You are correct, the V2 also has a o-ring there, I have adjusted the review text.



This light must be using some sort of magic with the tailcap. I can not see more than two connection (Battery and tube), but it does not work if I move the tailcap 4 cm away with extension wires ?


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## selfbuilt (Jun 21, 2011)

HKJ said:


> Yes, I nearly always use a cooling fan. Only time I do without cooling fan is low power modes or because I wish to test a temperature shutdown. Not only the Cat. shows this type of curve also the Olight M31. I am not sure its is due to a thermo sensor, it might also be due to the battery chemistry at high temperature.


Yes, it's true I observed the same on the Olight M31 as well as the Catapult V2 (both SST-50-based). Just a guess, but I suspect those SST-50 lights are harder on the batteries than the more recent XM-L lights.

I have re-tested my V2 sample without a cooling fan, and posted to my review thread, reproduced below:






Mine lasted longer (22 mins), but the same effect occurred as you saw. Originally, on those other lights, I presumed it was a circuit feature to step-down output if a certain internal temperature was reached. But I suppose it is possible this may actually be a battery chemistry issue at high temperature. :thinking:
_
UPDATE: Thrunite informs me that they use a resistor which varies with temperature. So when the temperature is high, the resistor will drive the current lower. As the temp drops in the CR123As (driven less hard), output gradually recovers. This outcome is therefore normal, they say. I'm still not quite clear as to why the drop in output is so sharp, though._


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## HKJ (Jun 21, 2011)

selfbuilt said:


> Mine lasted longer (22 mins), but the same effect occurred as you saw. Originally, on those other lights, I presumed it was a circuit feature to step-down output if a certain internal temperature was reached. But I suppose it is possible this may actually be a battery chemistry issue at high temperature. :thinking:
> _
> UPDATE: Thrunite informs me that they use a resistor which varies with temperature. So when the temperature is high, the resistor will drive the current lower. This outcome is therefore normal, they say._


 
Interesting, even without cooling you have better runtime than I have with cooling. Maybe the Titanium batteries are better than Panasonic at high current drain? Do you have the possibility/time to test with Panasonic and does anybody know if EU and US Panasonic CR123 batteries are the same?


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## selfbuilt (Jun 21, 2011)

HKJ said:


> Interesting, even without cooling you have better runtime than I have with cooling. Maybe the Titanium batteries are better than Panasonic at high current drain? Do you have the possibility/time to test with Panasonic and does anybody know if EU and US Panasonic CR123 batteries are the same?


Just so happens I do - I have a couple of made-in-USA Panasonics, bought about a year ago (expiry date code 4-2019). I will try them without cooling and see what happens. Stay tuned ...

_EDIT: Wow, just gave it a try, and the light stepped down around 4 mins into the run (on Panasonics, without cooling). It didn't drop quite as low as the Titanium Innovation cells (~95 on my relative output scale, instead of ~70 shown above). I will let this run continue, to see what happens, and then do another run with cooling. That will use up my last Panasonic cells, though._


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## selfbuilt (Jun 21, 2011)

Ok, here are my results on 2xCR123A on max, on Titanium Innovations CR123As and Panasonic made-in-USA CR123As, with and without external cooling:






As you can see, cooling didn't make much of a difference on the Panasonic runs - I got ~5 mins to step down without it, and ~6 mins with it.  The only real difference cooling seems to make is in the rate of the recovery phase.

So it seems the Panasonic cells can't handle the current load and heat up faster than the Titanium Innovations cells. This is turn either triggers some sort of stepdown circuit/resistor, or causes some sort of battery hiccup. 

Interesting .... I've just posted a synopsis of the situation in the batteries/electronics forum. Let's see what the experts there think!


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## HKJ (Jun 22, 2011)

Interesting, I checked my cells, on the cells it says EU, but the package says "made in USA", the cells has a 2020 date code.
I wonder if I can make a test to see if it is the batteries or the light. I cannot do it with the Scorpion, but maybe the M31 can be used (But I will hate wasting 3 expensive cells on that test). Doing a run where I log battery voltage, current and brightness would show it. If the battery voltage drops it is due to the battery, if the battery voltage raise it is because the light is throttling down.


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## candle lamp (Jun 22, 2011)

HKJ said:


> You are correct, the V2 also has a o-ring there, I have adjusted the review text.
> 
> This light must be using some sort of magic with the tailcap. I can not see more than two connection (Battery and tube), but it does not work if I move the tailcap 4 cm away with extension wires ?


 
Good for you!
When I first saw the tailcap, I was wondering what is in there at all. 
Really hope you find the current draw on batteries at tailcap. Keep your engines high! 



selfbuilt said:


> Ok, here are my results on 2xCR123A on max, on Titanium Innovations CR123As and Panasonic made-in-USA CR123As, with and without external cooling:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Judging from the above graph, perhaps Selfbuilt could see flickerings for low voltage warning of 2xCR123A cells.
( Maybe it was a just because of circuit? )
I'm still wondering why there is no warning(flickering) in case of 2xIMR16340 cells. There is no sign such as flickerings like CR123As.:thinking:


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## HKJ (Jun 22, 2011)

candle lamp said:


> Judging from the above graph, perhaps Selfbuilt could see flickerings for low voltage warning of 2xCR123A cells.



This can also be seen on my graph.



candle lamp said:


> I'm still wondering why there is no warning(flickering) in case of 2xIMR16340 cells. :thinking:



The low battery warning is at 2.8 volt for two LiIon cells this is way below empty and they can not maintain any voltage for flickering.


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## candle lamp (Jun 22, 2011)

HKJ said:


> This can also be seen on my graph.
> 
> The low battery warning is at 2.8 volt for two LiIon cells this is way below empty and they can not maintain any voltage for flickering.


 
Yes, I can see the warning in your graph now.

You mentioned that "With two IMR16340 cells the brightness is more stable and it has a decent runtime (35 min), but the light will over discharge them,
because the warning is designed for one cell."
Do you mean that the light doesn't give the low battery warning if I use two IMR or Li-Ion cells or CR123A, ie. any kind of cell?

I'm sorry for giving many questions.


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## HKJ (Jun 22, 2011)

candle lamp said:


> Yes, I can see the warning in your graph now.
> 
> You mentioned that "With two IMR16340 cells the brightness is more stable and it has a decent runtime (35 min), but the light will over discharge them,
> because the warning is designed for one cell."
> ...




The warning is given at a specific voltage (2.8 volt), this is fine for a single LiIon or two 2xCR123, but for two LiIon batteries the voltage is way to low. Two LiIon will be empty at 5 to 6 volt, below that they can not supply any current and will sustain damage.
I hope this explanation makes it clearer.



A little rant: Both IMR (LiMn) and LiCoO2 are LiIon cells, this makes it a bit confusing when your write IMR and Li-Ion. I uses this table in my charger reviews to show LiIon types:


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## candle lamp (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks a lot. HKJ! :thumbsup:

Also appreciate the table. (I meant li-ion is ICR.)


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## selfbuilt (Jun 22, 2011)

HKJ said:


> This light must be using some sort of magic with the tailcap. I can not see more than two connection (Battery and tube), but it does not work if I move the tailcap 4 cm away with extension wires ?


When you wrote that, the first thing that popped into my head was that maybe in this case magic = magnetism. Unfortunately, I don't have a strong magnet to test, but it occurred to me that the distance issue could be due to not having the magnets close enough together. If my suspicion is a correct, a strong magnet near the tailcap should disrupt switching behavior.

And as if by another sort of magic,  FLT_MEDIC has just posted a detailed commentary on how the switching functions (it is indeed magnetic). See his post #51 here.



HKJ said:


> Interesting, I checked my cells, on the cells it says EU, but the package says "made in USA", the cells has a 2020 date code.
> I wonder if I can make a test to see if it is the batteries or the light. I cannot do it with the Scorpion, but maybe the M31 can be used (But I will hate wasting 3 expensive cells on that test). Doing a run where I log battery voltage, current and brightness would show it. If the battery voltage drops it is due to the battery, if the battery voltage raise it is because the light is throttling down.


Makes sense, sounds interesting. I know the batteries get expensive, but it sounds like a good way to get at the issue.


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## HKJ (Jun 22, 2011)

selfbuilt said:


> And as if by another sort of magic,  FLT_MEDIC has just posted a detailed commentary on how the switching functions (it is indeed magnetic). See his post #51 here.
> 
> 
> Makes sense, sounds interesting. I know the batteries get expensive, but it sounds like a good way to get at the issue.


 
Magnetic, that makes sense, I will test it later today. This also means that I need to do a couple more measurements for the review.
And as a bonus I only need two CR123 batteries to test if it is battery or light that has problems with heat.

But first I need to find out how the magnetic pattern works.


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## selfbuilt (Jun 22, 2011)

HKJ said:


> Magnetic, that makes sense, I will test it later today. This also means that I need to do a couple more measurements for the review. And as a bonus I only need two CR123 batteries to test if it is battery or light that has problems with heat.


Sounds good, looking forward to it. FYI, a couple of suggestions have been made in the battery forum thread I started on this topic. Comparing the temperature of the two cells individually at the point stepdown occurs might be interesting, but would be feasible for me only by stopping the run and taking the cells out. :shrug:


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## HKJ (Jun 22, 2011)

selfbuilt said:


> Sounds good, looking forward to it. FYI, a couple of suggestions have been made in the battery forum thread I started on this topic. Comparing the temperature of the two cells individually at the point stepdown occurs might be interesting, but would be feasible for me only by stopping the run and taking the cells out. :shrug:


 
I can only record 3 channels at the current time (With the setup needed for checking batteries), i.e. I can either record current or a single temperature, the other two has to be voltage and brightness.

It was a magnetic switch and it is very easy to control, I am working on some current-voltage-brightness curves just now:


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## HKJ (Jun 22, 2011)

Review updated with current measurements and curves.


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## selfbuilt (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks for all detailed current-voltage comparisons. :thumbsup:



HKJ said:


> I can only record 3 channels at the current time (With the setup needed for checking batteries), i.e. I can either record current or a single temperature, the other two has to be voltage and brightness.


Then by all means, record current.  I just did a test with Duracell cells (which in my experience have identical discharge characteristics to the Panasonics), and measured the heat (reported in post #5 here).

The front cell gets a lot hotter, especially near the head. It's quite possible the heat is setting off the PTC circuit in the front-most cell. Your voltage-current relationships should clarify what exactly is going on.


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## HKJ (Jun 22, 2011)

selfbuilt said:


> Then by all means, record current.  I just did a test with Duracell cells (which in my experience have identical discharge characteristics to the Panasonics), and measured the heat (reported in post #5 here).



I am already recording it and it looks like it is the batteries, after 8 minutes 2xCR123 is down to 3 volt. When I am finished with the graph I will post it in the battery thread you started.


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## Jack2 (Jun 24, 2011)

I was looking for a small powerful versatile flashlight about 6 months ago and after much research I decided upon a Jetbeam IIIM R5. For one reason or another I never actually bought it. I’ve just returned now to see if it was still the torch for me, and I notice this which ‘looks’ a lot better. Just one question about this – is it all waterproof? I mean how would it handle being out in the rain and getting a covering?


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## HKJ (Jun 24, 2011)

Jack2 said:


> I was looking for a small powerful versatile flashlight about 6 months ago and after much research I decided upon a Jetbeam IIIM R5. For one reason or another I never actually bought it. I’ve just returned now to see if it was still the torch for me, and I notice this which ‘looks’ a lot better. Just one question about this – is it all waterproof? I mean how would it handle being out in the rain and getting a covering?


 
The specifications says it can be 1.5 meter under water for 30 minutes, I do not believe that a few drops of rain will do any damage to the light.
The looks and design of the light also makes me believe that it will stand up to any amount of rain.


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## brightnorm (Jun 26, 2011)

Selfbuilt,

I've noticed that you use 2200 mAh LiONs in your tests. I use 2200 mAh Pilas which are their highest capacity batteries, along with the excellent Pila chargers. Have you considered using higher capacity batteries? Could you please talk about your thoughts on this subject. 

If this is too OT please ignore.

Brightnorm


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## selfbuilt (Jun 27, 2011)

brightnorm said:


> I've noticed that you use 2200 mAh LiONs in your tests. I use 2200 mAh Pilas which are their highest capacity batteries, along with the excellent Pila chargers. Have you considered using higher capacity batteries? Could you please talk about your thoughts on this subject.


The simple reason why I stick with 2200mAh batteries is it allows direct comparison to my older reviews.

Capacity ratings on batteries are tricky things - they greatly depend on discharge rates. So if I switched cells, you could never really directly compare the runtimes (i.e. AW 2600mAh may not have 18% longer runtime compared to AW 2200mAh at all discharge rates). I believe higher capacity cells tend to perform relatively less well at higher discharges, but you would have to confirm that with the experts in the battery subforum.

Also, there is no magic involved in the chemistry of ICR (LiCoO2) Li-ions - higher capacity is going to mean greater size, either length or width (or both). The original 2200mAh button-tops thus also provide a standard that is virtually guaranteed to work in every light. Newer higher capacity cells (being larger and typically flat-tops) can sometimes have issues in certain lights. I typically test this just to make sure the cells work, but it's simplest again to stick with 2200mAh for regular runtime testing.

Oh, and the runs are finished faster too on 2200mAh cells.  That helps when you are doing as many runtimes as I do.


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## HKJ (Jun 27, 2011)

To get an idea of capacity of different cells at different discharge current, check my 18650 roundup.


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## selfbuilt (Jun 27, 2011)

HKJ said:


> To get an idea of capacity of different cells at different discharge current, check my 18650 roundup.


Great round-up HKJ. Very nice set of comparisons. :thumbsup:

And sorry for the OT reply - when I saw the question addressed to me, I forgot I was in your review thread and not mine.


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## HKJ (Jun 27, 2011)

selfbuilt said:


> And sorry for the OT reply - when I saw the question addressed to me, I forgot I was in your review thread and not mine.



No reason to be sorry, the question was for you.


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## brightnorm (Jun 27, 2011)

Thank you both.

Brightnorm


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## molon_labe (Jun 28, 2011)

Have you tested the AW protected and non-protected IMR?




selfbuilt said:


> Ok, here are my results on 2xCR123A on max, on Titanium Innovations CR123As and Panasonic made-in-USA CR123As, with and without external cooling:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## EvilOlivE (Jun 28, 2011)

Wow! Thanks for the awesome review! I might have to pick one of these up


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## HKJ (Jun 28, 2011)

molon_labe said:


> Have you tested the AW protected and non-protected IMR?


 
If you look at my runtime curve you will see se a curve for IMR16340, that is AW's IMR cells in CR123 size.


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## derfyled (Jun 29, 2011)

Based on the amperage, any idea on lumens for the max output setting on the neutral XM-L ? I know they will be using T5 bin.


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## HKJ (Jun 29, 2011)

derfyled said:


> Based on the amperage, any idea on lumens for the max output setting on the neutral XM-L ? I know they will be using T5 bin.


 
The T5 led is about 7% less lumen compared to the T6 led, it does not matter if it is cool, neutral or warm white. If the T6 is 750 lumen, then the T5 will be 700 lumen


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## SkyPup (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks for this great review, it led to me ordering one of these with the Turbo Head from Battery Junction and now this light is on my carbine rifle for hog hunting, really really nice throw and light weight, excellent infinite brightness adjustment, this is a high quality piece and will pay for itself in short order!


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## bc5000 (Jul 12, 2011)

SkyPup said:


> Thanks for this great review, it led to me ordering one of these with the Turbo Head from Battery Junction and now this light is on my carbine rifle for hog hunting, really really nice throw and light weight, excellent infinite brightness adjustment, this is a high quality piece and will pay for itself in short order!


 
I bought one to mount on my AR but it won't work with my mount. My 1" mount won't spread open enough to slide over the tail end. Going to have to find a two piece mount that clamps over the body.


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## Helmut.G (Nov 22, 2011)

HKJ said:


> In the above table I have collected all modes. I have also included off as a mode, because the light uses a small amount of power. All the estimated runtimes are with a 2600mA LiIon battery. The estimated lumen is scale from the specified maximum. The brightness is a relative measurement from a lux meter.
> All the values are measured at 3.7 volt. The battery warning was observed in infinite mode at 2.7 volt.


HKJ, thank you very much for these measurements, very useful! :thumbsup:
But are you really sure the light uses over 10 W in firefly and nearly 10kW in max?


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## HKJ (Nov 22, 2011)

Helmut.G said:


> But are you really sure the light uses over 10 W in firefly and nearly 1kW in max?



It is a powerfull light 
But maybe it would be a good idea to adjust the point a bit.

Edit:
Now it looks more realistic


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## gsteve (Dec 1, 2011)

Hi All... I have one of these cool lights and am trying to decide if i should get the turbo head. Ive seen the beam shots and if i really sqint i can see a bit of a difference. Those who have them.. can you see and actual improvement?


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## 1jono (Dec 1, 2011)

I originally bought a V2 with the extra Turbo head a while back and would say that selfbuilt's review is pretty spot on as from my usage experience I would estimate you get about an extra 50 yards throw with the turbo head.
I was so impressed with the amount of light the V2 puts out in a small package that I ordered another one last week so I have one with the standard head and one with the turbo head fitted all the time.
My reasoning for this (Not that I need reasoning with the illness this site and LED flashlights have caused! :shakehead) was that it would probably take at least 20 seconds to change the head from standard to turbo so I am now saving a considerable amount of time not having to change heads!
Oh and also there is no chance of dust getting into the head either! 



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?16087-selfbuilt


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## gsteve (Dec 1, 2011)

JONO.... you have the bug... BAD!!!!


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## 1jono (Dec 1, 2011)

Ha,your right gsteve!http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?173848-gsteve
Stick around here long enough and you will catch it too!


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## BenF57 (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi, HKJ.
Thanks for this usefull review.
One question... does the Scorpion with Turbo Head fit in the holster ?


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## Helmut.G (Dec 2, 2011)

BenF57 said:


> Hi, HKJ.
> Thanks for this usefull review.
> One question... does the Scorpion with Turbo Head fit in the holster ?


No, it doesn't.

The supplied holster doesn't even work properly without the TurboHead.
In my opinion it's completely useless, a waste of natural resources.


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## BenF57 (Dec 2, 2011)

Great :thumbsdow
Thanks anyway !


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## eh123456 (Dec 3, 2011)

I like everything about my Scorpion V2, except that the low voltage warning doesn't seem to work with my Panasonic non-protect 3100mah cells, the light will go dimmer and dimmer, but no flash warning. Is this normal ?
Sorry, I don't have a multimeter to test the final voltage.


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## Helmut.G (Dec 3, 2011)

As you can see from HKJ's great testing results in the first post, it's completely normal that the low-battery warning doesn't activate until the battery is nearly completely dead.

I'd recommend you to change the battery as soon as you notice a decrease in output.


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## HKJ (Dec 3, 2011)

eh123456 said:


> I like everything about my Scorpion V2, except that the low voltage warning doesn't seem to work with my Panasonic non-protect 3100mah cells, the light will go dimmer and dimmer, but no flash warning. Is this normal ?
> Sorry, I don't have a multimeter to test the final voltage.



The Panasonic cells can be safely discharge down to 2.5 volt and if you look at the "voltage sweep" graph, you will see that the light just about turns of at 2.5 volt. As long as you remove the battery, when the light is very dim, you are safe.


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## eh123456 (Dec 5, 2011)

I wanted to see how the low voltage warning works, so even the light was dim already, I waited, waited, and waited, eventually, the voltage was low enough and the light started flashing every few seconds 
Thanks guys.


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## proud2pak (Dec 5, 2011)

Well done.


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## madecov (Dec 9, 2011)

Just received my second Scorpion. The first was DOA.
One thing I have noticed is that the tail cap needs to really be screwed down very tightly. I used an AW 2900 mah 18650 battery and it slightly dented the positive terminal button. When I used a Redilast 2900mah battery it badly dented the button.

Has anyone else noticed this issue?

I just ordered two new AW 2900's and the 2200 mah batteries. I am hoping the 2200's are a little less tight.


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## jamjam (Dec 13, 2011)

Just received my Scorpion today, this is the first time I got to play with this type of tail switch, so please pardon me if my question sounds noob.

1) It was mentioned in your review there is a removable inner plastic tube inside the battery tube, but there is no mention on what it actually does. Is this some kind of isolator for the magnetic switch to work? And when I shake the light without battery inside, the tube moving up and down, is this normal?

2) I noticed there are some heavy lube inside the tail-cap around the base of the spring, and also the inner battery tube near the tail-cap. I wonder if lube is really necessary at this part, especially with that much of it? I have a habit of cleaning and re-apply lube with all my new lights, but I will leave this one out until I am sure how much to and where to apply.

3) I got myself the turbo head as well, by comparing the regular and the turbo head, I realised that the glass on the regular head seems biffier than the one on the turbo head, by tapping on both of them and judge by the sound they made. Anyone noticed that as well? May be its just that the glass on regular head are smaller hence sound heavier.

Since I am at work now and do not have any 18650 battery with me to test it, so lets share my first impression about the appearance of the light. I really like the design of the Scorpion especially the knurling on the body and the regular head. Wish they could have the same knurling (minimum) on the turbo head. Right now the turbo head just seems a bit too plain, and do not match the style of the body.

On the negative side, I noticed on the regular head, there is a black metal ring in-between the glass o-ring and the SS bezel, on my sample there are 4 dents with hard-anodized surface being chipped-off. I can see it without taking off the SS bezel, it looks like it was cause by some kind of tool they use to assemble the SS bezel. The 4 dents are in pairs, meaning there are two dents on each side of the metal ring at exactly 180 degree opposite each other, and very close to the knobs of the SS bezel (not sure that is the right term). I am not sure if this is normal for the Scorpion regular head, if it is then I won't go through all the trouble ex-changing it.

I also got a free Thrunite Ti AAA in champaign color， that came with the Scorpion. The sad part is they do not have in stock the 0.4lm version, so instead I got the 3lm version. When comparing it to my Klarus Mi X6, the 3lm low seems a lot brighter than my Kalrus's low, and the high on the Ti is almost equal to the 85lm high on Klarus. This may be due to the more throwy focus beam of the XP-E on Ti, since the hotspot of the Ti are obviously smaller and brighter than the one from Klarus. The tint of Ti also looks more greenish compare to the creamy white on Klarus.

As a close-up working light I think Klarus creamy white floody beam are better suited compare to the Ti, but I really like the UI of Ti, so simple yet practical. I wish Thrunite Ti will get an upgrade later with a neutral/warm XP-G emmiter with more flood, and that would be a perfect keychain light for me.


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## madecov (Dec 13, 2011)

The plastic tube is used for CR123 primary batteries to help prevent rattle and improve constant contact. 18650 batteries have a larger diameter.
The Scorpion is really a nice light.


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## varmint (Dec 13, 2011)

I hane a TN11 close to yours, you mentioned the rain, I have had mine in a real rain 2 times with no problems at all, you will like that light alot. Dont feel bad about the holster mine is real junk also. A military pistol ammo pouch is perfect and very cheap and very protective. The pouch for the Bretta M9 has 2 slots, perfect!! for light and ?? multitool or ??


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## HKJ (Dec 13, 2011)

jamjam said:


> Just received my Scorpion today, this is the first time I got to play with this type of tail switch, so please pardon me if my question sounds noob.
> 
> 1) It was mentioned in your review there is a removable inner plastic tube inside the battery tube, but there is no mention on what it actually does. Is this some kind of isolator for the magnetic switch to work? And when I shake the light without battery inside, the tube moving up and down, is this normal?



I do not believe that I got the plastic tube with the Scorpion, but as madecov writes it is used with CR123 to reduce rattle:







The Scorpion has a fixed non removable plastic insert, that is used for the magnet, it can be seen in my photos of the light.




jamjam said:


> 2) I noticed there are some heavy lube inside the tail-cap around the base of the spring, and also the inner battery tube near the tail-cap. I wonder if lube is really necessary at this part, especially with that much of it? I have a habit of cleaning and re-apply lube with all my new lights, but I will leave this one out until I am sure how much to and where to apply.



The o-ring is mounted inside the battery tube on this light, some of the lube is probably used to secure that the tailcap moves smoothly past that o-ring.


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## jamjam (Dec 13, 2011)

madecov said:


> The plastic tube is used for CR123 primary batteries to help prevent rattle and improve constant contact. 18650 batteries have a larger diameter.
> The Scorpion is really a nice light.



Thanks for the explaination.


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## jamjam (Dec 13, 2011)

HKJ said:


> I do not believe that I got the plastic tube with the Scorpion, but as madecov writes it is used with CR123 to reduce rattle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply. I noticed in your photo showing the battery tube, there is also quite amount of lube in your sample. I guess I will just clean it up a little bit but still leave some for the lubrication. LOL....


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## madecov (Dec 13, 2011)

On my scorpion the plastic tube came right out. I dont use it with 18650 batteries. Im running AW 2900's in the light. It is really killer bright. Almost to much throw as a general use patrol light. I have the constant on set at about 70% of full output.


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## jamjam (Dec 13, 2011)

madecov said:


> On my scorpion the plastic tube came right out. I dont use it with 18650 batteries. Im running AW 2900's in the light. It is really killer bright. Almost to much throw as a general use patrol light. I have the constant on set at about 70% of full output.



I do not plan to use it with CR123, as for the throw being to much as a general light, I am waiting for the SC600w to be available locally, so I will have both flood and throw lights covered, + my Old Zebralight H51w as close up work.


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## jamjam (Dec 19, 2011)

After playing with my Scorpion for few days, I must say I really like it a lot. Mine is a T5 neutral white version, but the tint is a lot warmer than my Zebralight H51w, the H51w look more "neutral" when comparing to the Scorpion T5. Can't say which tint I like more, perhaps I have to compare it to the SC600w when I get hold of it.

The only thing I think could be improve, beside what had been posted by other member here about multiple ramping modes, is the way the ramping work. If I want to set a different brightness when I am on the Infinite mode (Light on), I have to either:

1) turn it off first then press and hold to change the brightness, or
2) switch to firefly mode, then switch back to infinite then press and hold.

Beside that, if I set the infinite brightness by ramping "up" to let say 50%, the next time if I want 80%, I would have to do a quick press and hold to ramp "down" first, then turn it off, and then press and hold again to ramp "up". I understand this is a tactical light meant to be use by LEO or military, but if they can improve in this aspect, it would be an even more awesome light.

Beside what mentioned above, I really like this light a lot, may be I will get a cool white version, seeing that the neutral version are a lot warmer than others, so I assume the cool white version will be actually a real "neutral".


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## iron potato (Mar 22, 2012)

Never know the Scorpion T5 NW is a lot warmer than ZL's NW, this 'beast' also on my wishlist as well, for that being said, I think I'll get T6 then :huh:


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