# SF 9P vs. G3 vs G2L



## RoRo9 (Mar 1, 2010)

Hey guys 
im currently looking at buying a flashlight and have narrowed it down to the SF 9P, SF G3 and the G2L.

i shall be using it for general use with the occasional camping trip and other similar stuff. all these torches i am able to source from a local store in melbourne, australia at around the A$100 mark, which is the amount im happy to spend. 

i like the brightness of the 9P and the G3 but dont like the limited runtime, though i was thinking of adding the Malkoff M60 led into it, and i understand that this should give me about 200 lumens output with bout 2.5 hour runtime. 

the G2L was recommended to me as a good do it all light. decent output at 80 lumens and a good tactical runtime of bout 3 hours. 

just wanted ideas and info about these things. im new on the scene and i apologize if ive said something stupid. thanks for the help :thumbsup:


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## zygibajt (Mar 2, 2010)

Malkoff M60 (if you can still source one) will probably give you the best performance vs time. New M61 is suppose to be even brighter with even longer runtime but these are still hard to get right now. Also when first fascination with led light goes by many find the Warm version of M60 great. 

Comparing to above the stock P90 lamp will be dissapointing. Some Lumens Factory bulbs will be better, brighter than P90, but still the runtime and lack of regulation (the light is dimmer after 10-15 minutes already) is a drawback.

With stock Surefire body you can use 17500 Li-on cells only (accept the cr123). To get about 2 hours of runtime with Malkoff M60 you would have to go for bored body to accept 18500 cells.

I would strongly recommend sourcing the flashlight from Electronguru here on CPF.

You can buy bored 9P or C3 directly from him together with 18500 batteries, better switch if you want a clicky and even the charger in one package. try to get the Malkoff M60, M60W or M61 and you have a nice light for many years to come without spending the fortune on batteries.


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## carrot (Mar 2, 2010)

If you are going to upgrade with a Malkoff by all means make sure to buy a metal-bodied light, the 6P and 9P being obvious options. It needs to be metal to properly heatsink and draw heat away from the LED to prevent the LED from being damaged. The Malkoff is an incredible choice. I think you should wait for the M61 which is currently out of stock but even better than the M60, unless you want the best possible throw, in which case the M60 is better.


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## leukos (Mar 2, 2010)

As carrot said, the 6P/9P is a nice platform for many of the mods we have here on CPF. The 9P is a good all arounder, it is easy to swap between rechargeables and primaries, it can be incandescent or LED, and there are lots of aftermarket mods available for it. If you can find it locally for a price you are happy with, then I think this would be a very good choice for you. :thumbsup:


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## angelofwar (Mar 2, 2010)

The 9P w/ malkoff would be your best bet, as I assume it doesn't get to cold in Australia to need the nitrolon body...


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## Kestrel (Mar 2, 2010)

angelofwar said:


> The 9P w/ malkoff would be your best bet


+ another one here. I essentially have or had all of the candidates, and the 9P is the best best of the three IMO.


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## rikvee (Mar 2, 2010)

Hey RoRo9,

welcome to CPF! Looking for one little flashlight can easily grow into a monster here, so watch out, hide your wallet & cancel you credit cards now before it is too late!
As mentioned above, 3 CR123 battery lights are a lot of fun, since 2 rechargeables (17500 size) can drive the same bulbs.
Starting out with a bored out body (18mm) allows you to use standard batteries as well as bigger rechargeables (2x18500), for even more power and runtime.

However, for ACTUAL camping I would:
A. not want to blind myself/destroy my nightvision/annoy fellow campers with my superbright flashlight
B. want something with awesome runtime and a good flood with an even tint
C. want something that uses batteries you can actually buy at a local store

This then brings us to this particular little beauty, the H501W Zebralite, the warm tint of this model makes it a joy to use outside, it will not blind anyone and can run down it's little single AA battery over 80+ hours....
This is a 3-stage light, can be used as a headlight, armbandlight, or you can clip it onto your clothes.
If I was going camping I'd just get two of those, and that would be perfect....

If you DO want a thrower as well, without spending too much money, for camping I would still avoid CR123A's AND rechargeables, and aim straight for long-runtime 4AA's, like this one, the Pelican 2410

I know, it's the incandescent forum and all that, but a camping trip with a flashlight that eats through batteries isn't really all that much fun....


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## m1ruf (Mar 2, 2010)

I'd vote for a *Surefire G2* as a good inexpensive host. Nice to hold in winter won't scratch or dent also light weight. Thats the all Nitrolon version (no metal bezel, costs less) because you don't need no metal head if you use:

*a Malkoff M60 WL* wich will give you 100+ lumens wich is plenty bright for general activity and also most 'tactical' stuff as everybody likes to call it!

_(albeit I suppouse maybe 1-2 percent of buyers really use and need their light in a tactical way professionaly. But hey it's all about feelin' good for the costomer and marketing for the manufacturers and as long as no harm is done everyone shall cotinue to consider anything and anyone as a tactical type of flashlight/costumer. The problem is when people who really actually NEED a tactical light are buying an inferior product beeing marketed as tactical which then either fails completly or more often for the intended use: the key word here among many other parameters to consider is beeing able to operate a light under real stress, so multimode lights are generally not a good idea if you depend your life on wheter you can on/off your light instantly, everytime, anytime with one hand). But real pros should know their gear anyway one might think, unfortunately in reality flashlightwise this is not the case most of the time). Sorry but all that wannabe 'tactical' mostly marketing is hard to endure. *OT rant mode off*; *no offence to OP*, just speaking generally!)._

Also as you are based in OZ I suppouse the warm tint will please you as you Aussies tend to spend a lot of time outdoors (fishin', 4WDing, hiking out bush or whatever) and the warm light really brings trees and green stuff to look good and threedimansional. 

And the best thing is you get* 4,5+ hours* of regulated as you say 'tactical' runtime!

Got one myself and couldn't be happier!

cheers mate


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## herulach (Mar 2, 2010)

Have you considered a cheaper host? If you go with one of the solarforce offerings (the l2p has HAIII ano) you'll get the light and the drop in for the same price as the Surefire.

I don't own a surefire, but have compared them to them, and genuinely couldn't tell a huge difference in the build quality, certainly not enough (for me) to justify the extra cost and inability to use 18mm cells.

Any potential reliability issues should be taken care of with the malkoff drop in anyway.


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## pilote (Mar 2, 2010)

*RoRo9:* general purpose, camping activities, right? it's the m60LL you want in those hosts. you could also opt for the m60L, but the difference in practical UTILITY between the L and LL is not significant (i have both, i use both); if they were the same price, you'd go for the m60L, but they are NOT. the m60LL is the deal to get; an additional bonus of the LL is 6-8hrs of runtime...

don't bother with the wait for an m61; yeah it's brighter, so what? (and i got that one too)...get your equipment working NOW...


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## RoRo9 (Mar 2, 2010)

Guys thank you very much for all your help, i really appreciate it! 
I think i might go for the 9P, ill go check em out at the store!
Well im off to go get em, thanks again
- RoRo9 :twothumbs


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## carrot (Mar 2, 2010)

herulach said:


> Have you considered a cheaper host? If you go with one of the solarforce offerings (the l2p has HAIII ano) you'll get the light and the drop in for the same price as the Surefire.
> 
> I don't own a surefire, but have compared them to them, and genuinely couldn't tell a huge difference in the build quality, certainly not enough (for me) to justify the extra cost and inability to use 18mm cells.
> 
> Any potential reliability issues should be taken care of with the malkoff drop in anyway.


But why bother buying a cheap host that'll last you a year or two before you tire of it when you can get a Surefire that you will keep using for an entire lifetime and pass it on?


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## herulach (Mar 2, 2010)

carrot said:


> But why bother buying a cheap host that'll last you a year or two before you tire of it when you can get a Surefire that you will keep using for an entire lifetime and pass it on?



I can't really understand how you're any less likely to tire of a surefire.

Fundamentally it's an aluminium tube, the only thing to fail is the switch, which can be easily replaced. 

I can see maybe surefires having a slightly more reliable switch, although I've never seen any figures for how many activations they're rated for (in either instance).

Given you can get what, 4 solarforce bodies for the price of a surefire one, I doubt they're rated for 4 times more cycles.

The only other source of failure is the drop in, which the OP stated he'd be replacing.

By all means say you prefer surefires because of the better machining (which is an excellent reason), or just because of personal preference, but reliability isn't likely to be an issue.


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## carrot (Mar 2, 2010)

Most people enjoy, and, take pride in owning quality pieces of *something*. A Surefire 6P or 9P is a very inexpensive, in the grand scheme of things, piece of superb craftsmanship and quality that pretty much any flashaholic can own, should he want one badly enough.


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## JNewell (Mar 2, 2010)

Or, because of their truly outstanding customer service and warranty. They have rebuilt lights I've destroyed for free, and many others have had exactly the same experience. 



herulach said:


> I can't really understand how you're any less likely to tire of a surefire.
> 
> Fundamentally it's an aluminium tube, the only thing to fail is the switch, which can be easily replaced.
> 
> ...


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## rikvee (Mar 2, 2010)

RoRo9 said:


> .........I think i might go for the 9P, ill go check em out at the store!......... :twothumbs



Awrighty RoRo9, CPF is the place for the hotrod version, and that's what this would be:

- a bi-pin socket and reflector, this way bulbs are only $9, as opposed to over 30 bucks for a Surefire Light Assembly, where you throw away the refector and all every time the bulb blows...
I would pick the more available CL1499, a 7.2V lamp that when overdriven a bit will deliver somewhere between the P90 and the P91, the low and high output light assemblies of the 9P (LOLA & HOLA, sounds like they dance for money... )
- a 2 x 18500(widened 9P) body that takes the fatter rechargeables as well as 3 x CR123A's ) I would add the Z41 twistie tail switch and head option as well, there's your complete flashlight!
- last but not least, _two protected_ 18500 rechargeable batteries and a charger from AW, he would be one of the best internet-based sellers I know!

You now have a light that last twice as long (1hr) on rechargeables, puts out a flood of light, plus the option of playing around with different bulbs, as well as extensions, in order to keep reinventing without throwing the old away.... it will also look and operate just like an actual 9P, by the way, just one with hidden powers.....
The extra cost of this light is less than what you are going to spend on batteries within the first 5 hours...., after that, _all the lumens are free!_

All the linked CPF suppliers are great to deal with for people outside the US, btw so is Lighthound.
Australian prices suck, you'll lose half your money that way....


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## angelofwar (Mar 2, 2010)

carrot said:


> Most people enjoy, and, take pride in owning quality pieces of *something*. A Surefire 6P or 9P is a very inexpensive, in the grand scheme of things, piece of superb craftsmanship and quality that pretty much any flashaholic can own, should he want one badly enough.


 
Yeah...I made the mistake of buying a x-force/x-fire extension...ONCE...the threads were crap, and it wouldn't even screw onto my D3...never again...only genuine SF accessories for me (minus holsters, and stuff...)


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## zygibajt (Mar 3, 2010)

herulach said:


> I don't own a surefire, but have compared them to them, and genuinely couldn't tell a huge difference in the build quality, certainly not enough (for me) to justify the extra cost and inability to use 18mm cells.



Well in fact the diffrance is huge. I have never seen any flashlight built quality even 40-50% of Surefire. For me it is Surefire only and then there is all this other ... well I will call it low quality not to use a bad word.



herulach said:


> Fundamentally it's an aluminium tube, the only thing to fail is the switch, which can be easily replaced.



I made a mistake to buy the Ultrafire flashlight for my uncle, he wanted somethig cheaper than my Surefires. The threads are so thin and delicate I'm afraid to twist the tailcap off every time the battery needs charging. The switch works when it want and does not when it should. Just a piece of c... well low quality

Yes basically it is the alumnium tube.


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## Kestrel (Mar 3, 2010)

I don't understand why this thread has turned into SureFire vs. WhateverFire/Force - the OP had already narrowed down his selection to the:

*SureFire* 9P
*SureFire* G3
*SureFire* G2L
in his original post and wanted help deciding between the three. :ironic:

Edit: BTW he pretty much decided on the 9P way back in post #11.


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## herulach (Mar 3, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> I don't understand why this thread has turned into SureFire vs. WhateverFire/Force - the OP had already narrowed down his selection to the:
> 
> *SureFire* 9P
> *SureFire* G3
> ...



Thats probably my fault, should have known better really, and I'll leave it at that, except to say that the genuine solarforce parts are an order of magnitude better than the *fire stuff.

To get back on topic, the 9P with malkoff will be excellent, boring it out is definitely worth it, not least because you then have the option of a 6P>9P extender then using 2 18650s. This will make the light pretty cumbersome, but if you know you're going to be out and about for a long time.

You of course haven't mentioned any desire to use rechargeables, but it is certainly something you should look into (provided you use quality cells i.e ones from AW)


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## zygibajt (Mar 3, 2010)

I use 9P regularly, also have two 6P with A19 extenders. In general 6P is too short for me to handle right so that is why all my 3 C head lamps (2x6P + 9P) are 3 cr123 size. I use them with either Malkoff M60 or M60W. 9P and one of 6P/A19 are bored so I use them with 18500 and one 6P/A19 is unbored and I use 17500 for it. I do have another A19 to add to 9P and use 18650 but I don't use it that much. It is not that the flashlight is too long then, I love longer flashlights but I don't have bulbs to use it with. Orginally I planned to use eaither some nice incans or to buy some MC-E or SSC P7 based led but so far I bought neither of them. But I will HO-9 and EO-9 soon. With Malkoff there is about 1,2-1,5 hour with 17500 and about 20-30 minutes longer (around 2 hours) with 18500. That is long enough for my work even with 17500.

I do have P90 and P91 bulbs but I don't use them. P90 is quite dissapointing (dull actually) and the P91 is heavy overdriven with either two 18500 or 18650 so don't use them too.

One word of warning! If anyone plan to buy stock Surefire and then find someone to bore it out please think twice. That is why I recommended to buy ready bored flashlight from Electronguru.

Why? Probably 9 out of 10 engineers will screw it up. It is just hard and requires a good skill and high quality machines to do it properly, not to mention the owner of the flashlight would heave to know what actual the dimensions are needed. Boring out is one thing and leaving the edge at the end to still allow 17mm outer spring bulbs sit well is another problem and the tolarance is tens of milimeter. A little too far and the body is destroyed. Just the warning.

The 9P and 6P+A19 are all great light and I love them!


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## RoRo9 (Mar 3, 2010)

well i went to the store and spoke to the guy and unfortunately they didnt have any in stock. so im gonna wait to save up and get it as rikvee and some others have suggested and import it as availability in Oz is poop. so in the meanwhile i got me a G2L and soon i shall look at gettin a P9 with the upgrades. 

but thanks again for all ur help, ive learnt a lot!


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## Kestrel (Mar 3, 2010)

Well, if the 9P's are out of stock, you can always just step up to the best, the SureFire C2/C3.


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## RoRo9 (Mar 3, 2010)

o yeh, but ill wait for a bit.


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## angelofwar (Mar 3, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> Well, if the 9P's are out of stock, you can always just step up to the best, the SureFire C2/C3.


 
+1...if I could only own one SF, it would definitely be one of these!


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## Mikellen (Apr 2, 2010)

Originally posted by Kestrel: 
Well, if the 9P's are out of stock, you can always just step up to the best, the SureFire C2/C3.  
__________________





angelofwar said:


> +1...if I could only own one SF, it would definitely be one of these!


 
Why is the C2/C3 better than the 6P/9P? The C2/C3 just has a pocket clip, different shape and the option for HA Type III anodizing. (I guess maybe the pocket clip and HA III anno would be better.)


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## Kestrel (Apr 2, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> Well, if the 9P's are out of stock, you can always just step up to the best, the SureFire C2/C3.


 


angelofwar said:


> +1...if I could only own one SF, it would definitely be one of these!


 


Mikellen said:


> Why is the C2/C3 better than the 6P/9P? The C2/C3 just has a pocket clip, different shape and the option for HA Type III anodizing. (I guess maybe the pocket clip and HA III anno would be better.)


 
1. The pocket clip is very useful to me, YMMV of course.

2. The durability of the HA-nat is actually of no real significance to me (in fact, my C3 is actually Type II - BK). I'm not that hard on my lights, and I like being able to 'LEGO' all sorts of fun P60-type combos:

SF 6P-*BK* body
SF C3-*BK* body
SF G3-*BK* body
FiveMega 2xC & 3xC bodies - *BK*
SolarForce 1xCR123 body - *BK*
1xCR123 extender - *BK*
& parts such as Z41-*BK* tailcaps & Z44-*BK* head/bezel & KT2-*BK* turbohead.
(If everything is black, every possible combo matches, much more fun. )

3. The grip ring of the C-series really improves the handling of the light for me - particularly when using the 'momentary' button in the tailcap.

4. Also, I like the shape of the C3 body - the side flats make for a more comfortable hand hold IMO:


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## nzgunnie (Apr 2, 2010)

By a shop in Melbourne I'm assuming you mean Platatac (sp)? The one up that little alley way in the CBD?

I'd suggest if this is the one, that you may well be able to pick one up considerably cheaper either the CPF Market place, or from OpticsHQ, who I recommend very highly. It could be worth your while emailing them for a quote, telling them you are a CPF member.


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## pwatcher (Apr 2, 2010)

I'd rec G2L of OP's finalists, because of toughness of the nitrolon body, and resistance to dings/scratches. The LED version gives desired runtime, and plenty of brightness - 9P is overkill for general camping purposes (too bright).

The G2L fully preserves the ability to take any of the Malkoff M60/61 dropins down the road, as they become more available. G3 may be the cheapest, but has the worst immediate usability (too bright), and limited upgradability (with its nitrolon head).

So get the G2L for now, and ignore all the other well-intentioned recs that are not on your original short list! :twothumbs


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## mdocod (Apr 2, 2010)

In the long run, you're likely to end up owning several SF lights once you have used one for awhile, so probably not a big deal which one you pick up first to get the feel. 

Pretty much every SF has aftermarket lamp/head/bulb/battery/rechargeable options that can be legoed together to make your perfect flashlight. The G2L is a nice starting point with the nitrol body and aluminum head. I think the first thing I would be tempted to do is upgrade to a more modern LED module. MalkOff has options that can be brighter or run longer or a little of both. There are also plenty of decent chinese built USA dealer supported drop-ins that seem to be of very decent quality. Some are reaching into the 300+ lumen range. Though, with a plastic body light, I would personally err on the side of caution and keep the drive levels around an amp or lower to prevent over-heating the module. 

Eric


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## angelofwar (Apr 2, 2010)

Mikellen said:


> Originally posted by Kestrel:
> Well, if the 9P's are out of stock, you can always just step up to the best, the SureFire C2/C3.
> __________________
> 
> ...


 
Hmmm...well, the clip really comes in handy to stop it fro jostling around in your pocket...the rubber combat grip makes it easier to hold in "strenous" activites with lots of moving etc. And the type three ano. has a better grip to to the slightly rougher finish it has than type-II.


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## Alex K. (Apr 10, 2010)

The G2L was my first SF, and I was so impressed with it I ordered a 9P the day after. You'll probably end up owning both at some point, so just have fun shopping around!


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