# Help! ER40 collet set



## StrikerDown (Dec 4, 2009)

Does this look like a decent set of ER 40's?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170415098358&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

If so what would be a decent price to bid up to?

Thanks!


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## precisionworks (Dec 4, 2009)

I would think they are equal to Bison-TMX in quality, but could find nothing on the web. The Bison ER-40 collets are $18.00 each, so 23 would cost $414 at retail. On top of that, you'll need an R-8 collet chuck at about $120, which is not included in the eBay auction.



> what would be a decent price


That all depends on your personal level of cheapness - mine may be higher than yours, but I would try to stay under $150, as you'll spend over $100 more for the collet chuck.


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## wquiles (Dec 4, 2009)

When I bought mine, back when I still had a mini-mill, was this one from 800watt:
25 PC SET ER40 SPRING COLLETS WITH R8 CHUCK BRAND 


It is of course a cheap and generic item from Asia, but at the time I did not know any better and it has served me well so far 

Barry - who makes a good, quality R8 ER-40 collet chuck?


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## PEU (Dec 4, 2009)

speaking of ER40 collet chucks, I made this today:











When I drew the profile I was a little tight with the tolerances, so I had to file the teeths a little, other that that it works great. I had a small piece of alu sheet, maybe in the future I make an extension so I have more torque.


Pablo


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## StrikerDown (Dec 4, 2009)

Ajax lists a Bison er 40 chuck w/R8 for 120.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bison-Collet-Ch...QQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item482f2e067f

Barry, a while back you posted about a ball bearing nut for the er 40 chuck and I can't find the post. Looks like a great idea to make a good collet set up even better. If I can find one.

I have a bid in on this set, High bidder right now, will see how it goes. 

I saw those from 800 Watt, Might go that direction if this set goes too high. The bison chuck looks like a good idea either way, just a guess but that is probably the most critical area when it comes to keeping the TIR under control. Although I guess that if the spring in the spring collet is not even that could be a problen.

Thanks for the info! :wave:


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## wquiles (Dec 4, 2009)

PEU said:


> speaking of ER40 collet chucks, I made this today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That wrench is very nice. This was done on your CNC router? How long does it take to do everything once you give it a go?


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## precisionworks (Dec 4, 2009)

Very nice wrench, Pablo :twothumbs



> maybe in the future I make an extension so I have more torque.


Most factories have a collet nut wrench with a square hole so a torque wrench may be used for uniform tightening. That's on my "round tuit" list 



> ball bearing nut for the er 40 chuck


Phone Vic at Rani Tool for the Lyndex BB nut - $40 I believe. He can probably get the Lyndex R-8 ER-40 chuck with BB nut, but I never asked about a price on that. Lyndex is _very nice._ You might also want to ask the price for a set of ER-40 collets.

http://www.lyndexnikken.com/prod_standard.asp?type=colletchuck



> (the collet chuck) is probably the most critical area when it comes to keeping the TIR under control.


Runout is generated in both the chuck & the collet itself. If the collet pocket to OD is not perfect, runout occurs. If the collet taper to collet bore isn't just right, it also generates runout. Both should be as close to perfect as possible because (even though we aren't making parts for the Space Shuttle) lower TIR results in greatly increased tool life. 

The very best ER chucks guarantee .0001" runout between the collet pocket & the shank OD. Ultra precision ER collets guarantee .0002". That figure (*.0003"*) is the gold standard for ER collets.

Very good chucks run .0002" & very nice collets run .0004", for a TIR of *.0006"*. While that sounds good enough for Government Work, tool life will suffer. _Every .0001" improvement in TIR increases tool life by a minimum of 10%, _so that small difference in TIR makes a large difference in tool life.

I bought an expanding lathe mandrel for a job last summer - the arbor has a slight taper that matches the ID of the expanding collet & the collet closely resembles the ER with the multiple slits. Brand was Full Moon Best of China (Enco) and the machining wasn't bad. But every edge was straight razor sharp, which meant that a hard Arkansas stone had to be used to break every single expansion slit. Probably took the better part of an hour to make it usable.

Buy the best collet chuck & collets that your budget will allow & you'll never regret it. The chuck & collets are the final link between the tool & the work.


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## wquiles (Dec 5, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> Phone Vic at Rani Tool for the Lyndex BB nut - $40 I believe. He can probably get the Lyndex R-8 ER-40 chuck with BB nut, but I never asked about a price on that. Lyndex is _very nice._



Yup, I paid $41 or $42 for it. Mine should be arriving any day now :thumbsup:

I will call him next week to inquire about the Lyndex R8 ER-40 chuck


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## darkzero (Dec 5, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> even though we aren't making parts for the Space Shuttle


 
:laughing:


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## PEU (Dec 5, 2009)

wquiles said:


> That wrench is very nice. This was done on your CNC router? How long does it take to do everything once you give it a go?



It was done with my SX3 CNC mill, to use the most of the alu sheet I had to use a sacrificial board as support and as many holes I can drill avoiding the path to keep the sheet in place, it rattled a little, but this job didn't call for nice finishes 

The cnc mill did the job in about 40 minutes, cutting was done with a 1/4 2fl carbide endmill at 300mm/min and 1mm per pass, manual oil spray every now and then and I was there all along vacuuming so chips don't build up in the endmill.

My ER40 collet set came from 800watt and ctctools, for the kind of stuff I do, its OK no complaints here.


Pablo


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## wquiles (Dec 7, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> Phone Vic at Rani Tool for the Lyndex BB nut - $40 I believe. He can probably get the Lyndex R-8 ER-40 chuck with BB nut, but I never asked about a price on that. Lyndex is _very nice._ You might also want to ask the price for a set of ER-40 collets.


I received the Lyndex ER-40 Ball Bearing nut - really impressive :thumbsup:

I just talked to Vic at Rani Tool (link/) and he looked, but found that Lyndex only goes up to ER-32 in the R8 chuck. I asked him about the one made by Bison (link) and he said that would be a good brand to buy, given Lyndex does not make one.

So unless you or somebody else makes a better suggestion, looks like the Bison R8 chuck would be the one to get to replace my cheap Asian one.

Will


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## precisionworks (Dec 7, 2009)

> looks like the Bison R8 chuck would be the one to get


That's what I have. I don't have a tenth reading dial test indicator, so my ability to measure internal runout is limited. Using my Interapid .0005" indicator, the needle seems to move about .0001"-.0002". That is, however, as wildassguess, and someone with better metrology tools should verify my questionable readings


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## PhotonFanatic (Dec 8, 2009)

Just for chuckles, I asked the local Sandvik rep for a quote on a set of Sandvik ER40 collets. Turns out, according to him, that they only have a metric set, and the price is $1558.00. 

He suggested a Technics metric precision set instead at $552.00--better but still expensive.


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## precisionworks (Dec 8, 2009)

> He suggested a Technics metric precision set


That's actually one of the very best sets on the market ... they guarantee .0002" TIR on either the inch or metric collets.

http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/cnaerpci.htm

Not a bad price for super precision ER collets


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## wquiles (Dec 8, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> That's actually one of the very best sets on the market ... they guarantee .0002" TIR on either the inch or metric collets.
> 
> http://www.techniksusa.com/metal/cnaerpci.htm
> 
> Not a bad price for super precision ER collets



The other option would be to just buy the 4-5 super precision ER-40 collets that I use most often. Who sell precision ER-40 collets individually?


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## precisionworks (Dec 8, 2009)

> Who sell precision ER-40 collets individually?


Royal Ultra Precision ER-40 collets are $25 each, also guaranteed to .0002" TIR or better. Probably the lowest price today at that level of accuracy as a set of 15 cost only $375.

http://www.royalprod.com/content/files/products/Pages_4_7.pdf

Collis also guarantees .0002", but has no pricing on their site.

http://www.collistoolholder.com/cgi-bin/items.cgi?cat=CAT_3

They also make ER-40 tapping collets that hold the square shank of a hand tap ... nice if you don't have a tapping head.


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## StrikerDown (Dec 8, 2009)

PhotonFanatic said:


> Just for chuckles, I asked the local Sandvik rep for a quote on a set of Sandvik ER40 collets. Turns out, according to him, that they only have a metric set, and the price is $1558.00.
> 
> He suggested a Technics metric precision set instead at $552.00--better but still expensive.



The set on eBay sold for $280. I went $150 then quit. 

Picked up a cheapo set like Will's from 800 Watt. Should get me by.


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## SafetyBob (Dec 12, 2009)

I went with MariTool and got just the R-8 holder and three ER-40 collets that I will use virtually all the time. 

It was very nicely finished. Interesting because there was NO manufacturing origin printed on the holder. No China, no nothing.....

The other main point I wish to advise anyone buying on from MariTool is unlike I think virtually every other R-8 ER-40 holder is there is NOT one spot to put a wrench on the thing to tighten the nut up against. Nothing milled on the sides at all. The nut wrench I got is beautiful and fits and works well. You just have to figure a way to "hold" the holder really good while tightening the nut. I used a good rubber glove, gave it all I had and tried it out with a 5/16 2 flute single ended end mill. It stayed put....didn't go anywhere up or down as I machined and plowed down 1/4 of an inch in aluminum. I hate to use channel locks on the darn thing.....

So I am not sure if you really need the flat surfaces that everyone else has or not. I do think I will eventually either mill a surface on there for a big wrench or do something.....haven't got that far. Any ideas? 

Price was right, very right at $75 bucks and it was very, very nice machining with it. 

Do you jam the end mill up as far as it goes or can you adjust you length as necessary as long as you have full coverage of the end mill being gripped by the collet? 

Bob E.


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## gadget_lover (Dec 12, 2009)

In general, you want as little as possible hanging out of the collet while still gripping only by the shank. 

I've not seen any discernible impact if I move the endmill up and down as needed.

I noticed that some of my smaller collets ( 3/16 inch, for instance) have a gripping area that only goes partway up the collet. That would tend to suggest that you can put an endmill only partway into the collet. Having said that, I can see how that might tweak the collet if over tightened.

Daniel


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## PhotonFanatic (Dec 12, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> The set on eBay sold for $280. I went $150 then quit.
> 
> Picked up a cheapo set like Will's from 800 Watt. Should get me by.




StrikerDown,

I want to thank you for posting the link to the Sandvik ER40 collets for sale on eBay. I know you wanted them, and so did I, but I had never heard that Sandvik made collets. I use their cutting bits and small tools a lot, and love them, so your post piqued my curiosity.

The funny thing was that I could find nothing about Sandvik having an ER40 collet set; sure, they made all the other sizes, but I just could not dig up anything on the ER40, especially in an inch set.

Nonetheless, while I really wanted a metric set, I thought I'd look in on that auction to see how your bidding was coming along. Once I noticed that you were no longer bidding, I decided it might be OK if I snuck a bid in at the last minute. 

With the bidding at $250, I placed a bid $100 above that in the last ten seconds. As it turned out, I got the 'inch series' set for $280.

Now, as it turns out, Sandvik doesn't make an inch series in the ER40 collets, only a metric series, from 4 to 26mm, and that is priced at $1558 new, as I posted previously.

So, I was very curious to see if 1) the seller was ripping me off by sending an inch series that would clearly not be by Sandvik, or 2) that the collets were perhaps dual marked, inch and metric.

The package arrived yesterday, but I only got to open it today, as I was away for a day. Surprise, surprise--they were marked only in metric sizes, and do appear to be practically brand new, with a few scuff marks on some of the collets, where someone might have fit them in a chuck.

So, I don't know how to thank you enough--but if I ever decide to sell them, I'll let you have first crack at them! :devil:


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## wquiles (Dec 12, 2009)

WOW - great score Fred


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## StrikerDown (Dec 13, 2009)

Congrats!


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## precisionworks (Dec 13, 2009)

> I got the 'inch series' set for $280.


Super precision collets at bargain basement prices ... only on eBay


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## PhotonFanatic (Dec 14, 2009)

Yeah, and that's the best "discount" that I've ever scored. You have to wonder how the seller came into the item--they certainly didn't seem to know what they were selling. :devil:


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## wquiles (Jan 13, 2010)

Not a super-precision set, but shuold be better than my no-brand Asian-made set that I am using now. This will be a good match to my recently adquired ball-bearing ER40 chuck nut:


















Will


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## StrikerDown (Jan 13, 2010)

Rub it in! 

My no name arrived a couple days ago.

Congrats, nice set you got there!

Will,

Can you describe the benefit of the ball bearing nut, and do you think it is worth the cost?


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## wquiles (Jan 13, 2010)

StrikerDown said:


> Rub it in!
> 
> My no name arrived a couple days ago.
> 
> ...




Here is Barry's initial recommendation on it:


precisionworks said:


> Also, a Lyndex ER-40 collet nut _with ball bearing_. Best thing I've ever done for the ER-40 collet chuck. Available for other ER sized collet chucks.



I am sure he can expand on the reasoning better than I can


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## StrikerDown (Jan 13, 2010)

wquiles said:


> Here is Barry's initial recommendation on it:
> 
> 
> I am sure he can expand on the reasoning better than I can



You don't notice any difference?


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## precisionworks (Jan 13, 2010)

With the non BB nut, the inside face of the nut is rotating against the stationary lower face of the collet shoulder. The more the nut is tightened (to compress the collet around the tool shank) the greater the friction & shear forces between the two parts.

The BB nut allows the bearing face (inside the nut) to contact the collet shoulder & remain stationary while the nut is free to rotate without and shear forces. The nut works only to compress the collet, so the tightening action is much more smooth which allows a better feel as the nut is tightened.

You immediately notice the difference when you try it


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## StrikerDown (Jan 14, 2010)

Thanks Barry, It makes sense. I think I'll try out the new collets for a while so I can see the difference when I get the BB nut. 
The no name set looks like decent quality... always a gamble buying cheap!


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## precisionworks (Jan 14, 2010)

> no name set looks like decent quality


You may want to take each collet & see if any have sharp edges left from the slitting process. If a manufacturer is going to skip any operation in making collets, it will probably be the deburring (or edge softening), as that involves additional time. The good news is that it's easy to do in any shop.

The only specialized "tools" are a set of India stones. There are dozens of shapes & sizes available, but look for something like this made by Norton:






Lots of distributors carry them, including Brownells: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9618/Product/INDIA_STONES

Dunk the stone in a light oil (mineral oil, like Mobil Velocite works well) and lightly touch each sharp edge to break the edge. You may be lucky & this was already done, but it hadn't been done to an expanding arbor set I purchased from Enco. Those arbors slits were razor sharp, just waiting to bite someone :naughty:

If you want to buy just one or two stones, get the smaller (or smallest) they sell.


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## TOOLING GURU (Jan 14, 2010)

Hello,

LYNDEX Ball Bearing nut - E40-NUT $ 41.00 can drop ship.

Lyndex ER40 Collet Set - 25 pcs - $ 980.00 !! :mecry: Pretty steep.

I've heard that most of the name brand collets are not made by the manufacturers but private labeled. Everyone gets them from the same place. 

Lyndex collets have an runout accuracy gaurantee of less than .0004" at 4 times the cutting tool diameter which is ok, but I think that most are in this range and can be bought for a lot less.

Toolmex is fine. You should have no problems. Like Barry said hone off any edges and you'll be all set. Another excellent low cost brand is YG1 but they don't offer any R8 stuff, just CAT and BT.

Ebay is the best for holders. There's so much of it on there that you can get what you want at very discounted prices. And unless it's just absolute junk most of it should be safe to buy and use. 

Vic
Rani Tool Corp


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## StrikerDown (Jan 14, 2010)

OOPs!


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## precisionworks (Jan 14, 2010)

If you remove the factory wooden trays ( & eliminate storage for the collet chuck) you can make a tray that will hold a full set from 1/8" to 1" ... at least mine did


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## wquiles (Jan 15, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> If you remove the factory wooden trays ( & eliminate storage for the collet chuck) you can make a tray that will hold a full set from 1/8" to 1" ... at least mine did


Good idea - thanks


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## StrikerDown (Jan 15, 2010)

First let me apologize profusely for the crappy photo, especially to will!

I tried to show the runout of the new no name ER-40 collet set that just arrived.

The .0005 Interapid needle deflects almost 3/4 the distance from 0 to the first mark. I think that is almost .000750" if I am interpreting this thing correctly? 

Is that OK for a $120.xx set of collets?


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## precisionworks (Jan 15, 2010)

That's the most common Interapid, 312B-1, where every line is .0005". Since _the needle deflects almost 3/4 the distance from 0 to the first mark_, that's .75 x .0005 = just under .0004". Pretty good


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## StrikerDown (Jan 15, 2010)

OOOPs!

I guess we can both mis read our indicators!


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## gt40 (Jan 10, 2012)

I know this thread is a bit old but it was a great help to me. thanks to everyone for some great info as I was going to get a cheap china set. Instead, I picked up a Bison r8 er40 collet chuck + 1/8" through 3/4" techniks er40 collets and a techniks 6mm and 9mm er40 collet(have some nice carbide endmills I bought on fleebay a while back) Got the Bison chuck for140 and the techniks collets for 17.50 each so 320 bucks for a set including shipping.


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## precisionworks (Jan 10, 2012)

> 320 bucks for a set including shipping.


That's a great price for an excellent set of collets 

There are a couple of collet chuck extensions that you may want to look at, both in ER16, as the ER40 collet does not want to compress well on a 3mm (1/8") tool shank, the size I run for trit milling in titanium. Both are made in the USA by Craftsman Industries.






The extension above is their ER16 "stubby" collet chuck with .750" straight shank. It's 3.75" OAL but over 1" of that goes up into the ER40 collet so the tool is extended about 2.5" lower. Their "regular" extension is 7.1" OAL so about 5.75" extension. Both Enco & MSC run them on sale.


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## StrikerDown (Jan 10, 2012)

Wow this is a blast from the past!

As an update my $120 set of ER40 collets have been fantastic and the included collet chuck has been good also. I never did get the BB nut from Rani tool but the chuck and it's nut seem to work very well. I do need to make a wrench for holding the spindle while tightening the nut.


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## precisionworks (Jan 10, 2012)

The amazing part of my ER40 + ER16 stubby extension is that the runout is almost undetectable. I attribute that to pure luck but it's more likely that all the parts are well made.


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## gt40 (Jan 10, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> The amazing part of my ER40 + ER16 stubby extension is that the runout is almost undetectable. I attribute that to pure luck but it's more likely that all the parts are well made.



That looks really handy!


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## BVH (Jan 11, 2012)

If I'm understanding correctly, the ER# is the outer diameter in mm of the collet? So an ER40 is better than an ER 32 or 16 because it's more massive and stronger? Or does it relate to the range of collet sizes that will fit in a given collet chuck? Obviously, I'm not getting it.

If buying an R8 collet chuck set for a Grizzly 0704, would any R8 7/16-20 work as there a tons of them on Ebay, some indicating they are for Bridgeports, some don't say. Are there stubby length chucks so as not to take up any more height capacity than necessary?


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## StrikerDown (Jan 11, 2012)

The larger ER 40 will hold larger sizes than the smaller ER's... It's nice to be able to chuck up a 1" end mill in the ER, can't do that in the R8.

The R8's for Bridgeport are what you use in all R8 spindles. I'm not sure if they come in different threads... all mine fit the draw bar that came with the RF 31, should be like yours.


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## wquiles (Jan 11, 2012)

StrikerDown said:


> The larger ER 40 will hold larger sizes than the smaller ER's... It's nice to be able to chuck up a 1" end mill in the ER, can't do that in the R8.


I am confused. My R8-ER40 can hold 1" end mills - I have done it many times


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## precisionworks (Jan 11, 2012)

> an ER40 is better than an ER 32 or 16 because it's more massive and stronger? Or does it relate to the range of collet sizes that will fit in a given collet chuck?



ER (Expanded Range) collets were invented by Rego-Fix in Switzerland in 1972 & the first offering was the ER-16 series. The series now includes 11, 16, 20, 25, 32 and 40. As a general rule the larger ER sizes (25/32/40) do a better job with larger shanks while the smaller sizes are much easier to collapse on a small shank. Try to tighten an ER-40 collet on a 1/8" (3mm) tool & it is nearly impossible ... put the same tool in an ER-16 collet & it snugs up quickly. 

The ER-40 set is the most versatile because it allows gripping up to 1" shanks & it does a good job down to about 3/8". Below that a stubby collet chuck extension allows using an ER-16 collet for the small sizes.


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## BVH (Jan 11, 2012)

Great info! Thank you!


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## gadget_lover (Jan 11, 2012)

There appears to be some confusion about what R8 is... It is a specification for the spindle and for the arbor (shaft) that fit into that spindle. R8 arbors are often mated to drill chucks, end mill holders, fly cutters, boring heads, etc.


Because it has a tapered nose, you can make a collet that fits into the spindle with no other moving parts. The R8 collet is split in 3 spots (typically) and has a very narrow range of gripping power. As the collet is drawn into the spindle taper it colapses a little, gripping whatever ris in the collet. You need a LOT of R8 collets to cover the range from 1/8 to 7/8 inch.

The ER40 collet that fits in an R8 spindle is a collet holder (a chuck) that has an R8 arbor. The drawbar holds the chuck's arbor securely, and that's all it does. The ER40 chuck holds the ER40 collets, and a nut on the chuck is used to tighten it.

Clear as mud?

Daniel


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## StrikerDown (Jan 11, 2012)

wquiles said:


> I am confused. My R8-ER40 can hold 1" end mills - I have done it many times



Will, you are not confused! I was talking about collets, ER 40 vs R8 collets.

Let me add the word collet as appropriate and it won't be confusing:

The larger ER 40 collet will hold larger sizes than the smaller ER's... It's nice to be able to chuck up a 1" end mill in the ER 40 collet, can't do that in the R8 collet. 

My bad! 

Edit: Perhaps there is a 1" R8 collet, I just have not seen one yet!


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## wquiles (Jan 11, 2012)

Ahh, cool - thanks


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## gt40 (Jan 12, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> Very nice wrench, Pablo :twothumbs
> 
> Most factories have a collet nut wrench with a square hole so a torque wrench may be used for uniform tightening. That's on my "round tuit" list
> 
> ...



I ordered the BB ER40 nut from Rani. FYI, it has gone up in price a few dollars.


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## gt40 (Jan 12, 2012)

duplicate post delete


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## precisionworks (Jan 12, 2012)

> ordered the BB ER40 nut from Rani.


You will be amazed at how easy it is to snug up a big tool like a 1" solid carbide end mill & how nicely the BB nut releases the tool when you are ready. Money well spent


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## wquiles (Jan 12, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> You will be amazed at how easy it is to snug up a big tool like a 1" solid carbide end mill & how nicely the BB nut releases the tool when you are ready. Money well spent



+1 

I love mine


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## darkzero (Jan 11, 2013)

Once again I'm late to the party. I wanted to see what the BB nut was all about for myself so in November I called Vic @ Rani Tool to order one. He told me that he was no longer a Lyndex dealer & although he could get me one his pricing was not all that great. Ok fine. 

Last month I was lucky to get Mark's Bison collet chuck with the Lyndex BB nut. I also got a couple of friction bearing nuts made by Rego Fix for pretty cheap. I decided not to buy a complete set of ER40 collets cause I probably wouldn't use the smaller sizes much if at all so I just buy what I need as I go along. Not saving much on the whole set vs buying individual anyway.

The Rego Fix friction bearing nut seems to work just like the Lndex BB nut but the Lyndex nut is so much nicer & smoother. Big difference between the ball bearing & friction bearing. The ball bearing nut, well, spins like a bearing, the friction bearing doesn't spin freely at all. The Rego Fix nut is also much thicker the Lyndex nut or a standard nut. The collet does not sit flush at the end of the nut like it does with a standard nut or the Lyndex nut.


Rego Fix FB nut on left, Lyndex BB nut on right:












Since I have the Lyndex nut now I don't need all these nuts. If anyone is interested in the Rego Fix nuts I'll sell them for what I paid + shipping, $15ea shipped. I have two.


The Bison wrench that came with my collet chuck does not fit the Lyndex nut but it does fit the Rego Fix nuts. So I purchsed another ER40 wrench made by Accupro. This one is much longer & thicker but it does not fit the stock nut, Rego Fix nuts, or the Lyndex nut. So rather than trying to find another one I jus started filing away at it. Now it fits very nicely!


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