# ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-● [Comparison Beamshots added !!]



## bombelman (Apr 21, 2007)

*●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-● [Comparison Beamshots added !!]*

Finaly got my KL4 head open...
Never know it had 3 parts that screw into eachother.

The 2 bottom parts house the driver board and heatsink the LuxV sits on.
I removed the emitter and was going to install a Cree Emitter.
Since the Cree sits up higher, I added a small solder-blob
on the bottom center part of the emitter before epoxying it to the heatsink.

I did not have to isolate the top-contacts of the Cree since the bottom
of the KL4 reflector (housing) is annodized !! :rock: 

The metal ring on the Cree emitter fits EXACTLY into the reflector-opening !
No modding needed at all ! And the focus is great !
The emitter just sits all the way up into the reflector.

I ran a runtime-test last nice, but stupid me, I did not check
the time the run started...  
But what I did was turn it on on my desk next to a KL1 head, which I
had also modded, but with SSC and reflector.
Both lights had the same battery, and both came fresh from the Charger.
(AW RCR123)
Both lights ran very hot after a while.
The ran for at least an hour, but not sure of this. 

The KL1 SSC shut off earlier also, while the KL4 head kept running,
and later at a reduced output...
Not sure if the boards are the same or how they work.
KL4 did used to drive a LuxV, but I think it's auto-sensing...







 










Perfect centering...  





Those skull will some day take over the world !!! :naughty:


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## DaFABRICATA (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

I want that body soooo bad!
No, not yours......

The flashlights body!


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## CM (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

How's the beam of the Cree with the shallow KL4 reflector?


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## waynejitsu (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

I would love to have a brighter KL4


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## bombelman (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



CM said:


> How's the beam of the Cree with the shallow KL4 reflector?


It's not floody at all !!
It has a hotspot that is tighter then the SSC behing the SSC-reflector...

Compared to the old KL4 with LuxV it is brighter, runs longer, and does not get hot within 5 mins unattended... (Does after a 30mins...)

Battery-tube is Arc LS CR2 on an ArcLS-to-Eseries adaptor...  

Cheers ! :rock:


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## Kelvino (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Fantastic Mod bombleman, could you show us some beamshots. Also congrats on the nice KL4 body.


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## kenster (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Very cool and I would love to see some beamshots as well! :rock: 

You stated the head is 3 pieces. Does the head have to be opened all the way into three pieces to change the emitter to a Cree? I have opened an older style KL1 but not a KL4. :thinking: Not yet anyway!  

Thanks,
Ken


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## louie (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ?-?-? KL4 head + Cree P4 ?-?-?*

Good mod - I'm looking to improve my KL4 since I consider it nearly useless after SSC-ing my HDS. The HDS now has the same amount of light, yet doesn't get nearly as hot and runs far longer on a Battery Station RCR123 (49 minutes to first stepdown vs. 27 mins). I put a new Lux V into the KL4 and it's still green. I'll see about posting takeapart photos; it's pretty easy once the glue is broken.

I put SSCs into my gen 1 KL1s and they run about 85 minutes on the Batt Station RCR123.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Would you please measure the battery current after 10 minutes or so on a fresh battery? Interesting that the KL4 with Cree would be regulating.

Bill


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## Clickie (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

I think that might be the coolest flashlight I've ever seen! Got a source on that LS-2-E Series adapter or is it one of the old McGizmo ones?


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## Groundhog66 (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ?-?-? KL4 head + Cree P4 ?-?-?*

I'll take it :goodjob:


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## bombelman (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

I have to check the thread where I bought the LS-2-E adapter.
I think D-speck, but I could be mistaking.

To change the emitter, you only need to open the 2 bottom parts.
The top part is the bezel that keeps the Reflector, Lens and seal into place.

I have NO IDEA how the regulation works or if it does it all...
I either have this KL4 on this CR2 config (since it's quite "Efficient" now),
but my other option is the VG FB1 with clip in my side-pocket...

Beamshots will follow after dinner.


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## schiesz (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

I love the looks of that combo!

schiesz


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## larryk (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Great mod, I like it. I've read somewhere here on CPF that you can not put a Cree or Seoul LED in a KL5 head because the voltage would be to high. Wouldn't the KL4 head have the same board and over voltage ?


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## bombelman (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



larryk said:


> Wouldn't the KL4 head have the same board and over voltage ?


Maybe yes, maybe no.
The fact is this Cree XR-E in this KL4 ran for like an hour.
It did not even get hot in 25mins, the way the LuxV does in 5~10mins...
(Laying flat on my desk).

Could it be an auto-sensing circuit for both voltage and current ?!
Maybe chimo can chime in ?  
(Would pics of the board help ?)


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## yaesumofo (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

George please contact me ASAP!!!
Multiple e-mails unanswered!!!
Cool light.
Yaesumofo


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## Chao (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

:goodjob: very cool and beautiful, I like it!


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## bombelman (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Beamshots !!
My wall is green, so don't look at the color, hehe...
Distance is about 12ft. 
In the pics the KL1 spot looks to be 20% bigger.
But could be the KL1 DOES collaminate more, since the emitter dome
is smaller then the Cree dome combined with the metal ring.

Camera Exposure the same for both shots f/2.8 1/60th of a sec. (1600ASA)

BTW, this mod is doable with every KL4. It's not easy, but it's not hard either.
You need the right tools and equipment...

For those who like my body (hehe) sorry, not for sale... 
But hey ! The VG-FB1 is nice too !!

KL4 & Cree XR-E & Stock Reflector (stippled)





KL1 Gen3 & SSC P4 H-bin & Smooth reflector.


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## supes (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

That makes the KL4 look smashing! Yes, I LOVE your body! :laughing: I need one. 

Now, I'm wishing someone would make these kind of bodies for the KL4. This puts the pocket rocket to a whole new level. Very nice man! :rock: 

The tint of the LED on the green wall is still white. Cool! And an actually different wall color other then white, amazing! That would kill those white-wall hunter dudes... :hahaha:


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## ICUDoc (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Great body- I never thought those bits would go together- waht a cute little EDC!
(I AM keeping an eye out for that skull, bombelman!)


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## CM (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



bombelman said:


> ...Compared to the old KL4 with LuxV it is brighter, runs longer, and does not get hot within 5 mins unattended... (Does after a 30mins...)...



That about says it all about the Lux V. I proclaimed them dead after Cree came out.


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## shiftd (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

The LS body is not actually a body.
It is an Arc LS body to E series head adapter, made solely by rothrandir. 

So now, go bug him to make more


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## CM (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



bombelman said:


> Maybe yes, maybe no.
> The fact is this Cree XR-E in this KL4 ran for like an hour.
> It did not even get hot in 25mins, the way the LuxV does in 5~10mins...
> (Laying flat on my desk).
> ...



I'd like to offer an explanation if you don't mind. The KL4 uses a boost circuit but there is a schottky diode whose forward voltage must be overcome. When using a small li-ion cell like an RCR123, the cell will sag just enough to drive the circuit in regulation. Depending on Vf, internal resistance of the cell, and Vf of the schottky, there may be a short period of time where the cell will direct drive the LED (subtract the Vf of the schottky of course). I think that for these small cells, we can pretty much assume that the circuit will be in regulation most of the time so there's no fear of using small li-ion cells. Now if you're talking 17670's or 18650's that's another story...

Oh, nice mod by the way


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## PEU (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



shiftd said:


> bug him



I think this is the most important part of your post 


Pablo


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## CM (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



shiftd said:


> The LS body is not actually a body.
> It is an Arc LS body to E series head adapter, made solely by rothrandir.
> 
> So now, go bug him to make more



Where is rothrandir these days?


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## skalomax (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Very nice mod.

Nice and small too!

Good work! :rock:


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## bombelman (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



CM said:


> I think that for these small cells, we can pretty much assume that the circuit will be in regulation most of the time so there's no fear of using small li-ion cells. Now if you're talking 17670's or 18650's that's another story...
> Oh, nice mod by the way


Thank you very much for explaining !
But how is 17671/18650 different ? and a KL4 can run from 2xCR123, right ?
Is it still a boost-circuit then ? (Think it is, cux LuxV Vf was mostly >6v )
Also, how is the KL4 circuit different ? I understand it can handle a higher input-voltage...



shiftd said:


> The LS body is not actually a body.
> It is an Arc LS body to E series head adapter, made solely by rothrandir.


I was going to have one of these made cuz I like playing Lego with my Arc Stash and the SF-heads I have laying around. I had designed and drawn such an adapter before even seeing this fir the first time. It was later when I saw it for sale I snagged it !  
Would there be any interest for single-cell (CR2/CR123) TWISTY tubes for e-series / Surefire heads ? None really out there, right ?



Cheers !


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## kenster (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



bombelman said:


> Thank you very much for explaining !
> But how is 17671/18650 different ? and a KL4 can run from 2xCR123, right ?
> Is it still a boost-circuit then ? (Think it is, cux LuxV Vf was mostly >6v )
> Also, how is the KL4 circuit different ? I understand it can handle a higher input-voltage...
> ...


 
A smaller Li-on cell like an Rcr2 will sag in voltage under the load of a single LED where a larger 18650 cell would keep a higher voltage because it can handle the current draw much better. So the larger cells voltage could stay above the vf of the LED for a long time and keep the driver from going into regulation. I think that is pretty much right but wait for CM`s response before you yell at me for being WRONG!


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## CM (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



kenster said:


> A smaller Li-on cell like an Rcr2 will sag in voltage under the load of a single LED where a larger 18650 cell would keep a higher voltage because it can handle the current draw much better. So the larger cells voltage could stay above the vf of the LED for a long time and keep the driver from going into regulation. I think that is pretty much right but wait for CM`s response before you yell at me for being WRONG!



kenster is right on the money!


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## Radio (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



CM said:


> Where is rothrandir these days?



I know exactly where he is, On my Phone!!!! :lolsign:


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## kenster (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



CM said:


> kenster is right on the money!


 
That`s a relief! :sweat: Thanks CM! 

How much lower can the vf of the LED be than the voltage of the cell before MAGIC SMOKE????  Can it be harmful to the driver?


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## bombelman (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



kenster said:


> So the larger cells voltage could stay above the vf of the LED for a long time and keep the driver from going into regulation.



But this should not be really bad for the led, right ? Given it's sinked good ?
As for the circuit, does it have a Direct-Drive mode to "bypass" or does the higher-then-led-Vf battery-voltage of the cell stress the circuit in any way ?


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## Robocop (Apr 22, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Holy smokes this has got to be one of the best looking small lights I have seen in all my time here.....it all just kind of "fits" while blending the classic Arc look with a SureFire twist.....simply beautiful and that cut down tail section just keeps impressing me every time I see it.

Very nice taste you have there Bombelman and very nice mod as well.


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## FredericoFreire (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Does anyone knows the diameter of the KL4 lens and the diameter of the threads that screws into E series body?

Thanks!


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## bombelman (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Kens Diameter 22~20.5mm.
E-series threads: 13/16 20tpi.


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## Clickie (Apr 24, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

I pm'd rothrandir and he doesnt have the tools to make these anymore


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## MorpheusT1 (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Hey George,


Tryed to reply to your PM but your inbox is full.


I dont have the part you were interested in anymore,as it was fixed up by our very own CM and to my knowlege has worked perfectly after that.


Regards,
Benny


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## bombelman (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



MorpheusT1 said:


> Hey George,
> Tryed to reply to your PM but your inbox is full.
> I dont have the part you were interested in anymore,as it was fixed up by our very own CM and to my knowlege has worked perfectly after that.
> Regards,
> Benny


Awesome ! Thanks for the reply !
(I went to sleep with and woke up to full pm-box too, sorry...  
That's why can't use it as often as I like...)


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## Madvillian (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

What type of body is that my man?


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## bombelman (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



shiftd said:


> The LS body is not actually a body.
> It is an Arc LS body to E series head adapter, made solely by rothrandir.


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## bombelman (May 9, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Currently on EDC:


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## SikSpeed (May 10, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

I am pretty new to all of this so dont shoot if this is a stupid question..... what if this mod was done on a KL4 head used on a 2x123 body? Would 2 123 rechargeables kill it like the standard KL4?

Thanks for the help!!!


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## bombelman (May 10, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Side by side comparison pics.

Exposure: 1/60s - f/2.8 - 1600ASA
Left: Cree - Right: LuxV





Exposure: 1/640s - f/2.8 - 1600ASA
Left: Cree - Right: LuxV
(See slight donut in LuxV KL4)





Exposure: 1/60s - f/2.8 - 1600ASA


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## Kelvino (May 10, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-● [Comparison Beamshots added !!]*

Great pictures bombelman, I hope that is my KL4.


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## Manzerick (May 10, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-● [Comparison Beamshots added !!]*

What a nice little light!!!


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## bombelman (May 10, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-● [Comparison Beamshots added !!]*



RiZA said:


> Great pictures bombelman, I hope that is my KL4.


Yes it is  I had modded my first KL4 to Cree before I 
got to take any beamshots.......
I ran both side by side, the KL4+LuxV was running HOT after 5 minutes, while the KL4+Cree was slightly warm...

Beam/performance characteristics:
KL4+LuxV:
Wide diffused spot, quite bright.
Wall of light, no throw across the street. 
Average Spill, not very usefull.
(Con: LuxV current-eater and winter-heater)

KL4+Cree:
Tight focused spot.
Even spill, brighter then LuxV.
Reaches across the street quite nice 
(Pro: Runs cool and efficient from XR-E)

You will be very satisfied !
Cheers !!


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## Kelvino (Jul 8, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-● [Comparison Beamshots added !!]*

Received my KL4 and KL1 from Bombelman a while ago and I must say I'm more than satisfied with his work.
The KL4 received a CREE P4 upgrade while the KL1 got a SSC P4, a smooth reflector and a flat lens.








 KL4 left - KL1 right




 
The KL4 has a tight hotspot now and still has a great bright spill. What I love the most is the extended runtime which i think is essential for an EDC.
The KL1 is finally more useful for me as an EDC because it has a nice beam now instead of just the standard throw characteristics of the TIR optic.








 KL4 with CREE P4








KL1 with SSC P4, smooth reflector and flat lens 

I can only repeat my satisfaction with George's Mods.
It was totally worth it and I'm definitly recommending his great service.:twothumbs

Thanks George


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## bombelman (Jul 8, 2007)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-● [Comparison Beamshots added !!]*

RiZA, thanks for posting the nice pics !
Great to hear my mods added value to your parts. :thumbsup:
I do these mods with ALL PLEASURE FOR THOSE WHO APPRECIATE IT !

This one is for you: :bow:

That said, let the public know that I'm still not done and I'm currently
finishing another mod for RiZA. (Just back in the EU after being in S-Am)
For those that do not know, I work on a "No rush, no error" -basis
and until now it works fine.

Thanks for the support !! :bow:


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## marcdilnutt (Jul 9, 2007)

*Re: ?-?-? KL4 head + Cree P4 ?-?-? [Comparison Beamshots added !!]*

Did you get my pm about some mod work bombelman? I like the look of the kl4 mod and have an e2e that wants some work done too.


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## bombelman (Jul 9, 2007)

*Re: ?-?-? KL4 head + Cree P4 ?-?-? [Comparison Beamshots added !!]*

Hi nutty-marc, no PMs received. :dunno:
Feel free to drop me a line at george (at) bombelman.com
In your subject, please put "CPF=CPF=CPF=CPF".
I'm currently available for al different kinds of mods, incl.
Surefire and Arcs (and more).

Thanks !!


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## Echo63 (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



bombelman said:


> Maybe yes, maybe no.
> The fact is this Cree XR-E in this KL4 ran for like an hour.
> It did not even get hot in 25mins, the way the LuxV does in 5~10mins...
> (Laying flat on my desk).


the LED in my L4 died, and i am going to try this, my first real mod.
a couple of things though, how big a spacer (solder blob) do you need on the bottom of the Cree module? and do you need to electrically isolate the Module from the heatsink ?
i Ordered my Cree today, should be here next week http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0220835
did i get the right one ?



bombelman said:


> Could it be an auto-sensing circuit for both voltage and current ?!
> Maybe chimo can chime in ?
> (Would pics of the board help ?)


if it helps, here are some pics of my L4 board (with slightly damaged Inductor - the coil is ok, its just the housing)


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## KDOG3 (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*

Wow. Just wow. I would LOVE one of those bodies to stick an E2DL head on, or even a E1B head. We need to get these made...


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## bouncer (Aug 31, 2008)

*Re: ●-●-● KL4 head + Cree P4 ●-●-●*



KDOG3 said:


> Wow. Just wow. I would LOVE one of those bodies to stick an E2DL head on, or even a E1B head. We need to get these made...



Here you go your wish is my command



http://www.jsburlysflashlights.com/...aff=&pg=cat&ref=custom+flashlight+accessories


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