# Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in



## DayofReckoning

The greatest incandescent flashlight ever conceived. A masterpiece of technological innovation. A thing of beauty and wonder. A flashlight so unique that no other exists like it.

As you can tell by my opening statement, I am a HUGE A2 Aviator fan. Maybe huge is an understatement. Either you get this flashlight, or you don't. I was enlightened to the miracle and wonder that the A2 is many moons ago. And there has yet to be a time when this little light has not put a smile on my face.

Despite LED technology advancing everyday, lumens getting brighter and brighter, into the thousands of lumens, nothing is as beautiful to me as the wonderful white, digitally regulated beam that the A2's little filament produces. I've seen the best hotwire beams there are, yet none brings me the joy that little "50 lumen" beam produces. And nothing matches the perfection and simplicity of its UI, the Surefire 2 Stage tailcap.

Surefire has attempted to make 2 successors to the Aviator, and in my humble opinion, neither has come close to matching the original A2. It's uniqueness and legacy is unsurpassed, and will stay that way.

If I was forced to give up every single flashlight I had, but only keep one, I would keep my A2. Long live the A2 Aviator, the greatest incandescent flashlight ever!


----------



## bykfixer

Welcome to the site. 

Yup the A2 was a goody.


----------



## Lumen83

I tend to agree with everything you say about the Aviator, but the leds are horrible. I like that the 6p offers many more options for lamps and upgrades. but, I still find the Aviator to produce a better beam. I just can't get past the horrible tint of the white leds and the bizarre artifacts of the other colors. I have a love hate relationship with it. Its much more suitable to a pocket EDC than the 6p though. I know there have been some led upgrades in the past. Wish I could have gotten my hands on them because then the Aviator would be my absolute perfect light.

Of course, at the time it was as good as it gets for leds. And, I'm unaware of another incan that compares to it, especially since they're not exactly being manufactured to great extent anymore. So, you may be accurate that it is the best incan of all times.


----------



## DRoc

I love mine. Bought more than ten of them a few years back...every colour and then some extras.
Great light.


----------



## novice

Lumen83,
If you get one of the aftermarket "led rings" by Koala, you can plug in any 5mm led you wish, including the Yuji "high CRI" 5mm leds. While you are in the process of prepping the leds (trimming the leads, removing the flange), you can sand the leds with, for example, a thin grey Scotch 3M sanding sponge (fine grit), and you will have no artifacts or cloverleaf pattern. Calipsoi makes, or used to make, an led ring also.

Tad Customs makes a bulb adapter and sells the very economical bulbs to go with them, to replace the expensive/hard-to-find Surefire lamp assembly.


----------



## bykfixer

I have a Tads 3712 in my user. Better beam than the SureFire bulb too.

But at 2am I fail to notice the Mickey Mouse/purple haze beam when nature calls and a black dog is sprawled out on the floor between point a and b.


----------



## Kestrel

OP, happy to have you on the site and also to hear your respect for such a classic light.
Have owned a number of SF's, but never the Aviator - partially because of the beam quality issues from the LED's.
And also because of my immense preference for 17670's when I really got into LiIon rechargeables.


I'm curious, did you follow the work of WQuiles and his regulated M6 battery pack offering a few years ago ?
Outstanding work in every respect, and perhaps the ultimate extension of the digital regulation concept that SF abandoned after their Aviator.

Best regards,

Edit: I have always been confused by the next-generation LED Aviator which changed from Throw/Flood to a Flood/Flood concept though ...


----------



## Lumen83

novice said:


> Lumen83,
> If you get one of the aftermarket "led rings" by Koala, you can plug in any 5mm led you wish, including the Yuji "high CRI" 5mm leds. While you are in the process of prepping the leds (trimming the leads, removing the flange), you can sand the leds with, for example, a thin grey Scotch 3M sanding sponge (fine grit), and you will have no artifacts or cloverleaf pattern. Calipsoi makes, or used to make, a led ring also.
> 
> Tad Customs makes a bulb adapter and sells the very economical bulbs to go with them, to replace the expensive/hard-to-find Surefire lamp assembly.



Does Koala still make those? If so, I would love that. I didn't think they were available anymore. Can I sand down the existing leds? Sorry if thats a dumb question. I've never opened it up beyond to replace the main bulb.


----------



## archimedes

Although the calipsoii rings are no longer available, if you plan to open up your A2, his installation instructions are well worth a read, here ...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...urefire-A2-Aviator-LED-rings-(2nd-Run)-*OPEN*

The screws are indeed tiny, and can get mis-threaded rather easily


----------



## novice

Lumen83 said:


> Does Koala still make those? If so, I would love that. I didn't think they were available anymore. Can I sand down the existing leds? Sorry if thats a dumb question. I've never opened it up beyond to replace the main bulb.



No, it's not a dumb question. It is possible to open up the head and sand the leds, but there are a couple of things to keep in mind: If your A2 ever stops working, and you were to send it back to Surefire for repair, I believe it is quite possible that they would look at sanded leds and consider that it voided the warranty. This is pure speculation on my part, but I think it is quite possible. Also, if the tiny soft brass screw-heads were marred or burred, it is probable that they would know that someone unauthorized "had been in there" and might very well consider the warranty void. The choice is yours, of course. I have the Koala ring in my A2 lights, and it is nice not having a cloverleaf pattern. When I removed the original stock led ring, I tried to be as careful with the screws as I could, and carefully stored the stock led rings in protective "Blistex" containers, with a tiny amount of foam, for the day I might have to replace them in the lights.

Koala sold one of his led rings as recently as last December. I think it is definitely worth a try to post a "Sent PM" on his sales thread, and then send him a message.


----------



## novice

Has anyone tried a rechargeable 16650 cell in the A2?

1. Does it fit, and if so, what brand? (I don't have any)

2. If a 16650 does fit, does it fully power either the Streamlight Strion or Stinger (yellower beam in this use, I know) bulb in Fivemega's bulb adapter, or the bulbs that Tad offers for use in his adapter?

I put 2x16340 in mine, and they are a medium-snug fit. I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS in your A2 unless you have a Koala's led ring in there. Some people have done this with their stock led ring, but the general consensus is that it overdrives the leds too hard, and Surefire warranty policy will not cover this kind of use of rechargeable Li-ion cells. The incan voltage regulation circuitry will step down this kind of voltage to a level that the incan bulb will handle. I have no experience with Calipsoi's ring.


----------



## DayofReckoning

While I admit that the LED's are not that great, the important thing is that they do their job just fine. The beam pattern doesn't bother me as the LED's are meant for close up work, where it is unnoticeable. If it's a big deal to some, like others have suggested, they can be sanded down for a more smoother beam.


----------



## DayofReckoning

Kestrel said:


> OP, happy to have you on the site and also to hear your respect for such a classic light.
> Have owned a number of SF's, but never the Aviator - partially because of the beam quality issues from the LED's.
> And also because of my immense preference for 17670's when I really got into LiIon rechargeables.
> 
> 
> I'm curious, did you follow the work of WQuiles and his regulated M6 battery pack offering a few years ago ?
> Outstanding work in every respect, and perhaps the ultimate extension of the digital regulation concept that SF abandoned after their Aviator.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Edit: I have always been confused by the next-generation LED Aviator which changed from Throw/Flood to a Flood/Flood concept though ...



Yes, now that you mention it, I do remember the WQuiles​ regulator for the M6, though I have never seen or owned one. Too bad they are no longer available.

I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on the A2L Aviator, not exactly a worthy successor to the A2 in my opinion.


----------



## thermal guy

I have two and I love them!!


----------



## Modernflame

DayofReckoning said:


> The greatest incandescent flashlight ever conceived.



It was a revolutionary piece of gear, like so much else produced by Surefire in those days.


----------



## DayofReckoning

The saddest part of the tale is that Surefire had a whole lineup of these regulated incandescent's in the works. So sad they never saw the light of day


----------



## fivemega

novice said:


> Has anyone tried a rechargeable 16650 cell in the A2?



*[SIZE=+1]Please see[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] here.[/SIZE]*


----------



## novice

fivemega said:


> *[SIZE=+1]Please see[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] here.[/SIZE]*



Thank you, Fivemega.


----------



## xcel730

The A2 is still one of my favorite. I had two in the past (red and yellow/green bulbs). After awhile, they ended up in the collection drawer. 

Recently, I picked up another A2 in the aftermarket with Koala onion ring with Yuji High CRI led. Combined that with Tad'a custom bi-pin, it become my favorite again. It's been in my EDC for the past month. Every time I use it, I grin a little. It's not the brightest nor smallest, but having the old school Incan with led is just plain enjoyable to use.


----------



## novice

It doesn't seem that it would be that hard for someone skilled in the machinist arts to make a single-cell extension for the A2, making it an "A3". The tailcap end does not "separate" the cells the way that the E-series normally does. Using 2x16500 cells, the runtime would begin to be in the neighborhood of an A2 on primaries. Aesthetically, the lines would not exactly "flow", but that happens with legos sometimes.

I use AW IMR 16340 cells in my A2s. I don't have any 16500 cells, and have not tested the fit.


----------



## Kestrel

IIRC, there was a 3xCR123 prototype SF A3 Aviator; I have seen pics here many years ago.

Back in the good old days, we saw more of those eye-popping oddballs that the 'old guard' posted. :sigh:


----------



## fivemega

novice said:


> It doesn't seem that it would be that hard for someone skilled in the machinist arts to make a single-cell extension for the A2, making it an "A3".
> I don't have any 16500 cells, and have not tested the fit.


*I have tested 2500mAh Keeppower protected 16650 which is too tight to fit an A2 body.
It's easily possible to make extension tube but there are few problems.
1- Finding some 16500 with acceptable capacity which will fit in A2 body.
2- Color matching of natural HA which normally may vary from olive drab to grey. Black is easier.
3- Even if we found right battery set, brightest option is Strion bulb which is slightly brighter than original bulb while some people wish to get at least double the brightness.*




Kestrel said:


> IIRC, there was a 3xCR123 prototype SF A3 Aviator; I have seen pics here many years ago.


*There was discussions about A3 many times but I can't remember any prototype picture.
Years ago I talked to Mr. William Hunt about brighter option of regulated incandescent but never got answer from him.
I also talked to owner of BCS PowerStick who is friend of Michael (Surefire owner) about more powerful BCS 
We agreed about price and quantity then paid some deposit (2/3 of grand total) but this never happened. I did not see any interest from his side and returned the deposit.
BCS was similar to this but powered by 4S/2P alkalines and regulated to 3.6 volt with soft start.*


----------



## Kestrel

Gee I hope I'm not incorrect ? :thinking:

I know that SF had a few of the 'Digital' regulated incan prototypes - incl. a 3-cell version - but discontinued that evolutionary line in favor of LED development. So maybe not an A-series aviator perhaps ...


----------



## StudFreeman

Kestrel said:


> Gee I hope I'm not incorrect ? :thinking:
> 
> I know that SF had a few of the 'Digital' regulated incan prototypes - incl. a 3-cell version - but discontinued that evolutionary line in favor of LED development. So maybe not an A-series aviator perhaps ...



I think I recall talk of an A3 prototype so it's not just you.

I definitely recall seeing a picture of a turbohead A2.


----------



## DayofReckoning

The line was originally called "Digital Fusion" but that name was scrapped due to a trademark issue. A few lights with this branding escaped Surefire. I"m sure they would be worth bookoo dollars if ever shown up on the marketplace.

If someone would make a 1 cell extender for the Aviator so that 1 more CR123 primary could be run, I would buy a few in a heartbeat.


----------



## soldonsurefire

Reading on this forum is like learning a new language.LOL.

I've been fortunate to own two of these lights,one an original with clear led's and a newer one with red led's.


----------



## ampdude

StudFreeman said:


> I think I recall talk of an A3 prototype so it's not just you.
> 
> I definitely recall seeing a picture of a turbohead A2.



I remember both of those things as well. I think it would have been a better light in a three cell version with a turbohead, and if they had decided to drive the main bulb a little harder. The A2 lamp is too orange IMO compared to most Surefire unregulated lamps with fresh cells or lithium ions. The three cells and turbohead would have made it more up to its intended task as a small aircraft inspection light. I love the A2, but I'm never going to sing praises about the output lumens, throw ability, or the color temperature of the main lamp. Yet it's cool for so many other reasons.


----------



## DayofReckoning

ampdude said:


> I remember both of those things as well. I think it would have been a better light in a three cell version with a turbohead, and if they had decided to drive the main bulb a little harder._* The A2 lamp is too orange IMO compared to most Surefire unregulated lamps with fresh cells or lithium ions.*_ The three cells and turbohead would have made it more up to its intended task as a small aircraft inspection light. I love the A2, but I'm never going to sing praises about the output lumens, throw ability, or the color temperature of the main lamp. Yet it's cool for so many other reasons.



That's demonstrably false. With all due respect, if that's your experience with the A2 then something is wrong with either your eyes or your light. The A2's beam is 3300K, or higher with lamps like the LumensFactory lamp, which is listed as 3350K, and is whiter than just about every combination I've used. How you describe the A2's beam as "orange" is beyond me. One of the most common praises of the A2 has always been how white the beam is.

And the most important point to make is the CCT is the same at the end of the run as it was at the beginning. No other Surefire combination of battery/ lamp/ light can make this claim.


----------



## ampdude

DayofReckoning said:


> That's demonstrably false. With all due respect, if that's your experience with the A2 then something is wrong with either your eyes or your light. The A2's beam is 3300K, or higher with lamps like the LumensFactory lamp, which is listed as 3350K, and is whiter than just about every combination I've used. How you describe the A2's beam as "orange" is beyond me. One of the most common praises of the A2 has always been how white the beam is.
> 
> And the most important point to make is the CCT is the same at the end of the run as it was at the beginning. No other Surefire combination of battery/ lamp/ light can make this claim.



I'm well aware of this. I think people's views have been tainted by the "white" (angry blue) LED's in the majority of the Aviators out there, and that affects the perception of the beam color.

I do prefer tungsten based lamps that are more highly driven than the A2 does with the OEM lamp assembly, and even the Lumens Factory version.

I've done many lamp tests in the past on different A2's vs. other Surefire lamp assemblies and concluded that the A2 lamp should be driven harder.

We all know it has a reputation for being bomb proof because of the soft start, but I think it is also not driven as hard as other lamps in the Surefire line at the time.

I prefer a lamp assembly that is being driven at the high end of 3000K.

Also, the CCT is not the same at the end as at the beginning as at the end of the run most A2 lights go into a "low" incan mode when the batteries reach the last quarter of their life.

But I think that the CCT is not very great to begin with, compared to a highly driven incan.


----------



## DayofReckoning

ampdude said:


> I'm well aware of this. I think people's views have been tainted by the "white" (angry blue) LED's in the majority of the Aviators out there, and that affects the perception of the beam color.
> 
> I do prefer tungsten based lamps that are more highly driven than the A2 does with the OEM lamp assembly, and even the Lumens Factory version.
> 
> I've done many lamp tests in the past on different A2's vs. other Surefire lamp assemblies and concluded that the A2 lamp should be driven harder.
> 
> We all know it has a reputation for being bomb proof because of the soft start, but I think it is also not driven as hard as other lamps in the Surefire line at the time.
> 
> I prefer a lamp assembly that is being driven at the high end of 3000K.
> 
> Also, the CCT is not the same at the end as at the beginning as at the end of the run most A2 lights go into a "low" incan mode when the batteries reach the last quarter of their life.
> 
> But I think that the CCT is not very great to begin with, compared to a highly driven incan.



I'm afraid this post shows you are misinformed. The A2 with the factory lamp is driven at 3300K. The LumensFactory lamp is even hotter at 3350K. That is as hot and white as it gets. You say you prefer "the high end of 3000K", yet criticize the A2, which is achieving CCT higher than what you say you prefer.

And yes, the A2's CCT is the same at the end of the run as it is at the beginning, and when I say end of the run, that means right before the batteries don't have enough juice to fully fire up the lamp. So I'll reword it as follows, "same at 26% as when 100%. I don't consider the dim incandescent mode to be part of the actual run.


----------



## DayofReckoning

So last night I did a little hike out in some local woods with 3 lights with me. A Surefire E2E with a fresh Lumens Factory EO-E1R lamp and a fully charged Keeppower 16650, my A2 Aviator with a LumensFactory lamp that has been in there for a long time, and has developed a little darkening of the glass envelope, and another A2 Aviator with a brand new fresh LumensFactory lamp. I really wanted test these lights out amongst the deep woods in total darkness.

As far as color temperature is concerned, both A2's beat the hotly driven E2E hands down. The beam from the A2 with the older lamp beat the E2E in whiteness, and against the A2 with the fresh lamp, it wasn't even a contest. 

Despite the smaller, shallower reflector of the E2E, it did seem to match the throw of the A2's quite well, they are very similar. I am impressed with the E2E in this regard.

Upon coming home, thinking of the comments in this thread, I decided to do one further test. I swapped out the EO-E1R in the E2E for a HO-E2R and two fresh IMR 16340's, and swapped out the LumensFactory lamp in the A2 for the factory MA-02. Not surprisingly, the A2 STILL beat the E2E in the color temperature department, appearing noticeably whiter in temperature.

After this testing, it has confirmed to me what I already knew, that the color temperature of the A2's beam is one of this lights greatest attributes.


----------



## bykfixer

Isn't the A2 regulated?

I tried a Tads bi-pin bulb vs the SureFire lamp and prefer the Tads. Better beam overall and a bit brighter. But the SureFire lamp assembly throws better. Haven't tried the LF in an A2 but love, love, love 'em in my E1's and 2's.

I use primaries.


----------



## DayofReckoning

bykfixer said:


> Isn't the A2 regulated?
> 
> I tried a Tads bi-pin bulb vs the SureFire lamp and prefer the Tads. Better beam overall and a bit brighter. But the SureFire lamp assembly throws better. Haven't tried the LF in an A2 but love, love, love 'em in my E1's and 2's.
> 
> I use primaries.



Sure is regulated, with soft starting too. That's what makes the A2 so special. 

I'm surprised to hear the stock A2 bulb outthrows the Tads bulb, as the stock A2 bulb tip is frosted, which hurts the throw a bit. The LumensFactory lamp throws a bit better than the stock bulb, and is a bit brighter and whiter as well. I would like to see a comparison between the Tads bulbs and the LumensFactory bulbs.

I also run Primaries in mine as well.


----------



## bykfixer

A side by side with an oem bulb and a Tads

It seems the frosted tip helps disperse the hot spot a bit. So regarding throw, the Tads beam goes farther in a very narrow area. At 50 yards for example it'll light up a dog or a deer. At that distance the SureFire bulb will light up two or 3 deer standing near each other. 

I considered a Lumens Factory bulb module. 2 would've been about the cost of a Tads adapter and some bulbs. Some bulbs = 10 so on the 3rd bi-pin I'd be in the black as it were. 
I bought a few SureFire modules and stashed them when they hit the $35 mark. Then I bought a few A2's since they still had stock bulbs. My most ugliest, beat up one so worn the letters are gone is the one I carry. I don't mind the stock blue fringed Mickey Mouse silouette beam from the LED's at all. 

I've never understood all the fuss about beam patterns and such. I hit the on button, light comes out.... good enough. Especially when it helps me find dropped keys or keeps me from tripping over a tree root.
To me it's like getting all in a tizzy about the pitch of the clicking sound when tightening a screw with a ratchet.


----------



## DayofReckoning

BKYFIXER, how quickly do the Tads bulbs blacken/get dark? My experience with the stock Surefire bulb is it takes a very, very, long time for them to start to darken. 

The LumensFactory bulbs seem to darken much faster than the Surefire bulbs in my experience.


----------



## bykfixer

Well, to be honest the one I'm using hasn't become darkened, or at least that I can see. But the bulb doesn't get used all that much. Maybe 3 hours so far.... maybe less.

PK once told me that he had hired a PhD while he worked at SureFire to perform R&D for light bulb gas. He also did performance analysis for durability and darkening. He said back then computers did math for determining potential issues (instead of doing the work in real time). That one computer could take up to five days to solve a math problem. Well, the PhD wanted to work on other stuff while the computer did it's thing. So PK bought him 5 of the best computers available at the time. Of course todays computer could probably solve 5 of those problems in minutes.

Anyway, it seems that SureFire has a patented recipe for a combo of krypton and xenon gas that is a better kept secret than the recipe for Coca-Cola. 

I think Tad uses xenon, and a similar arrangement of parts and pieces as Maglite used in their PR based xenons. The Maglite xenon were pretty good.


----------



## DayofReckoning

Surefire lamps are undoubtley the finest ever made. I had a MN30 that ran for an ungodly amount of time, and when it did finally blow, it was because I fired up the lamp directly hot off the charger. Had I let the battery settle for a little while, it probably would have kept going.


----------



## bykfixer

To me, primaries are more predictable. But the times I use rechargeables they have rested over night. Example, I keep 3 of 4 16340's charged for a one cell LED daily and charge the one when it needs it. So there are 3 ready to go. And if the need for those takes place before I can reach a charger I keep one of them charged and switch to a primary in that light for longer runtime(s).

I'm very careful about using rechrageable batteries in a light that uses a $10+ bulb module.


----------



## DayofReckoning

That's another beautiful thing about the A2. The Lamp doesn't care how much voltage you feed it, two 4.2 V Lithium ions, or 2 primaries, makes no difference, the lamp will only see around 4V of it. Sadly, the same can't be said about the LED's though.


----------



## novice

DayofReckoning said:


> That's another beautiful thing about the A2. The Lamp doesn't care how much voltage you feed it, two 4.2 V Lithium ions, or 2 primaries, makes no difference, the lamp will only see around 4V of it. Sadly, the same can't be said about the LED's though.



The circuitry in Koala's led "Onion Rings" will handle 2x Li-ion cells. I don't know enough about Calipsoii's led rings to address whether or not they will also handle 2x Li-ion cells safely.


----------



## archimedes

novice said:


> .... I don't know enough about Calipsoii's led rings to address whether or not they will also handle 2x Li-ion cells safely.



Yes, safe voltage range listed in OP, here ...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...efire-A2-Aviator-LED-rings-(2nd-Run)-*CLOSED*


----------



## archimedes

Dirty wage guy said:


> ....
> Thanks For going easy on me Arch!



No worries ... a little thread cleanup now done


----------



## ampdude

DayofReckoning said:


> That's another beautiful thing about the A2. The Lamp doesn't care how much voltage you feed it, two 4.2 V Lithium ions, or 2 primaries, makes no difference, the lamp will only see around 4V of it. Sadly, the same can't be said about the LED's though.



I've always loved that about the lamp assembly because of the regulator. Drop some LI IONS or primaries in there, the light doesn't care. I agree and disagree with some of the points you made. I'll have to do some beamshots eventually to prove my points on the A2. Probably won't be this week though. I'll have to dig through a lot of lights.


----------



## DayofReckoning

ampdude said:


> I've always loved that about the lamp assembly because of the regulator. Drop some LI IONS or primaries in there, the light doesn't care. I agree and disagree with some of the points you made. I'll have to do some beamshots eventually to prove my points on the A2. Probably won't be this week though. I'll have to dig through a lot of lights.



Fair enough Ampdude. I'm just going by the data and my eyes is all. Either way, love it or hate it, the A2 is a special light indeed.


----------



## ampdude

DayofReckoning said:


> Fair enough Ampdude. I'm just going by the data and my eyes is all. Either way, love it or hate it, the A2 is a special light indeed.



I'll try and get some beamshots up on a white wall. Here's one thing I need to mention, that we were talking about... The darkening of the Lumens Factory bulbs, and I believe you have observed yourself, which I myself have observed after only 1 hour of operation, is because they contain only xenon gas. They don't contain the xenon-halogen combination that Surefire lamps do which last forever. Surefire lamps use the xenon-halogen cycle so that they stay bright for a really long time. I've been told that I'm stupid for thinking that bulbs should be this way because xenon costs more. Well we all know better.


----------



## DayofReckoning

I've seen this issue of the lamps darkening quickly brought up to Mark from LumensFactory before. 

His response/excuse was that they don't have the equipment/machinery to do a Xenon-Halogen cycle lamp, and that they use a very high pressure in the lamp to combat the darkening, or something to that effect.

I like LumensFactory's lamp, they have good qualities to them, and I can appreciate that they are the only one supporting us Incan guys, but there is serious issues with their lamps blackening quickly. If they were cheap, it wouldn't be such a big deal, problem is cheap they are not.

FWIW, to be fair, it's my experience that the LumensFactory A2 lamp darkens less quickly than many of the other lamps I've had from them. Not sure if the A2's soft start has anything to do with that or what, but that's my experience.


----------



## [email protected]

Yes, Sir.
Xenon-Halogen lamp production is very different than pure Xenon lamp production, the machinery and manufacturing process are different.
The Xenon-Halogen lamps almost do not darken at all because of the regeneration qualities of the Halogen cycle.
We in turn use a much higher pressure in the lamp to slow the darkening (using the higher pressure to "press" against the tungsten to slow the deterioration).
We don't make Xenon-Halogen lamp simply because we don't have the machinery to make them, so we make our lamps in pure Xenon.
This has always been the case for us and the reason why we do not make Xenon-Halogen lamps.


Thank you for the support guys.


Cheers.

Mark


----------



## novice

Thank you for the explanation, Mark, and thank you for doing what you do.


----------



## DayofReckoning

I'll gladly take Xenon only lamps versus no lamps at all! I am greatly appreciative that LumensFactory is still supporting us guys who still use incandescents. 

I sincerely hope they continue to produce lamps for a long time, otherwise these incandescent lights we love and adore will become nothing more than expensive paperweights.


----------



## [email protected]

Again, thank you for the support guys.
I am extremely grateful for all your support over the years.
These are some hard times, but thanks to you guys we are still kicking.


We have been asked many times in the past if we are going to discontinue the incandescent lineup.
The answer is no, we will keep it as long as we could.
Incandescent lamps is our roots and we have been making them since my Grandfathers days.
Although to be honest, the incandescent sales has shrunk considerably and that is why almost every manufacturer stopped providing support for their incandescent products and discontinuing their incandescent lines.
We still value it as part of our core and will not discontinue the lineup or cease the support.

LEDs has came a long way and most people think incandescents are obsolete.
But incandescents definitely has its uses and advantages.
Colour rendition and light penatration during bad weather conditions are still valued among many users around the world.

Plus, there is just this passion and warm feeling when using an incan that you don’t get with LEDs.


Cheers.

Mark


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks Mark,

And a bit off topic, but thanks for the Streamlight and Pelican stuff as well.


----------



## mcm308

[email protected] said:


> Again, thank you for the support guys.
> I am extremely grateful for all your support over the years.
> These are some hard times, but thanks to you guys we are still kicking.
> 
> 
> We have been asked many times in the past if we are going to discontinue the incandescent lineup.
> The answer is no, we will keep it as long as we could.
> Incandescent lamps is our roots and we have been making them since my Grandfathers days.
> Although to be honest, the incandescent sales has shrunk considerably and that is why almost every manufacturer stopped providing support for their incandescent products and discontinuing their incandescent lines.
> We still value it as part of our core and will not discontinue the lineup or cease the support.
> 
> LEDs has came a long way and most people think incandescents are obsolete.
> But incandescents definitely has its uses and advantages.
> Colour rendition and light penatration during bad weather conditions are still valued among many users around the world.
> 
> Plus, there is just this passion and warm feeling when using an incan that you don’t get with LEDs.
> 
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Mark


Yes, thank you so much for continuing to support us incan junkies. The 2 lights I'll never live without is the A2 and the M4!


----------



## ampdude

I'm sure anyone who has been in a snow storm with a flashlight will note that not only is the light quality much better, but the snow will melt off of the lens, unlike with an LED light. That's why you don't see LED traffic lights in a lot of northern States in the U.S.A.


----------



## mcm308

What are the 4 flats going for these days?


----------



## id30209

mcm308 said:


> What are the 4 flats going for these days?


I'd say a lot. I've got rounded BNIB for reasonable money


----------



## archimedes

A reminder that pricing questions are best addressed through a websearch please.


----------



## id30209

As a fresh owner i couldn't resist to check in as well. Using mine with koala ring and Tad's 3712. Amazing combo!
@archimedes: sorry, post corrected


----------



## mcm308

archimedes said:


> A reminder that pricing questions are best addressed through a websearch please.



Just thought Id ask. I had about 15 of them a few years ago. I remember nice ones were in the 200 range, looks quite a bit less now according to ebay completed listings. Round bodies going for cheap. Is there anything wrong with talking about the value of them?


----------



## archimedes

mcm308 said:


> .... Is there anything wrong with talking about the value of them?



There are an enormous variety of factors that go into determining value, but at the same time, this information has very limited shelf life.

The only hard data available is completed sales, which are easily searchable.

Discussing these topics, in non sales threads, tends to cause off topic drift, pointless arguments, and ultimately moderation problems of various sorts (including price fishing and sales outside of the MarketPlace)

Thanks for understanding.


----------



## thermal guy

You know I think it’s the good memory’s I had with my old A2 that made me get one again.i used to ghost hunt quite a bit and loved the way the low leds would give me plenty of light to see all night and always had that high beam when I needed it.i have plenty of lights that are more powerful and longer running but still there is just something about it I love.


----------



## Lumen83

thermal guy said:


> You know I think it’s the good memory’s I had with my old A2 that made me get one again.i used to ghost hunt quite a bit and loved the way the low leds would give me plenty of light to see all night and always had that high beam when I needed it.i have plenty of lights that are more powerful and longer running but still there is just something about it I love.



Which color A2 is best for illuminating ghosts?


----------



## id30209

Lumen83 said:


> Which color A2 is best for illuminating ghosts?



A2-HA-YG )))


----------



## Lumen83

id30209 said:


> A2-HA-YG )))



No wonder I haven't seen any ghosts. Mine has red LEDs. Its probably too long of a wavelength to illuminate them.


----------



## thermal guy

Lol not sure I was always running in the opposite direction 😂😂😂😂


----------



## Lumen83

thermal guy said:


> Lol not sure I was always running in the opposite direction 



Then it sounds like they were the ones hunting you!


----------



## Minimoog

Just dug out my A2. I added the Onion Ring plus Yuji high CRI led's. It will be getting some use this winter for sure. It is one of the black 4 flats ones I got from HK Gear in the end of line sale. So good that TAD and LF are up to speed with new bulbs.


----------



## Viper715

This seems to be the most recent A2 thread so thought I would drop in here to see if anyone has seen the new offering from Lumens Factory. They recently released an LED drop in for the A2. Has anyone tried it out yet?


----------



## scout24

Had no idea, thank you for the heads up!!!


----------



## thermal guy

Wow! What the hell is a 319A?


----------



## skillet

thermal guy said:


> Wow! What the hell is a 319A?



Not sure... but I'm gonna find out in about 2 weeks...


----------



## thermal guy

Ya please do let us know. It has to look like an incandescent light or they would never sell it I’m thinking.


----------



## Viper715

My only hold back has been that the drop ins LED is powered on the low mode when with the Incan it was only the LED ring. I want to see what someone’s experience is.


----------



## archimedes

Thanks for posting up this interesting item.

I enjoy my A2 mainly because of the lamp, but nice to have options, I suppose.

I have an N319 in my Regulus proto, and there is a fair bit of tint variation across the beam.


----------



## thermal guy

Does it look like an incandescent? Wouldn’t think it would with a color temp of 4000


----------



## bykfixer

From Mark


----------



## thermal guy

These guys are great


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Be nice to see a runtime graph of that A2 LED module.

Bill


----------



## Lumen83

Viper715 said:


> My only hold back has been that the drop ins LED is powered on the low mode when with the Incan it was only the LED ring. I want to see what someone’s experience is.



If that is the case, that completely defeats the entire purpose of this light. At least, in my opinion.


----------



## thermal guy

Ya I’m trying to understand that. Does that mean we lose our low mode where just the 3 leds are lit?


----------



## archimedes

thermal guy said:


> Ya I’m trying to understand that. Does that mean we lose our low mode where just the 3 leds are lit?



Yes, it would


----------



## thermal guy

Oh. I’m not sure I like that. Well I’ll hold off judgement till I can find out more about it.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Sounds sort of complicated, The A2 runs on a regulated voltage driver. How does that mate up to the driver in the LED drop in?

Bill


----------



## calipsoii

Bullzeyebill said:


> Sounds sort of complicated, The A2 runs on a regulated voltage driver. How does that mate up to the driver in the LED drop in?
> 
> Bill



The primary lamp in the A2 is powered by the raised bump in the middle of the body.
The 5mm LED ring is powered by the raised metal ring that surrounds that bump.

Since this dropin touches both the 5mm ring AND the lamp bump, it receives two different voltages depending on how you've activated the tailcap. They're taking advantage of the different voltage sources to provide a low and high mode vs. just a high.


----------



## Viper715

So if that’s the case I wonder would it be possible to put some type of insulating layer in there to stop it from lighting on low?


----------



## archimedes

Interesting approach, thanks for the explanation. I was wondering about that too.


----------



## thermal guy

So another words the low now is 40 lumens?


----------



## Lumen83

thermal guy said:


> So another words the low now is 40 lumens?



A 40 lumen low for a light that was designed for use in a cockpit so as not to wipe out your night adapted vision, is a little odd. Clearly the intent of the dropin is not to maintain the initial use case that the light was designed for. And, that is fine. But, a 40 lumen white LED on low is also going to render the other colored LEDs completely useless.


----------



## bykfixer

Mark indicated that without actually going inside a particular A2 itself, the lack of resistance of an LED vs a light bulb led to the final product. Due to size of the drop in doing something inside said drop in was impractical.

For those with white LED A2's these will be pretty nifty. Red? Not so nifty unless you just want an A2 to run on high all the time.


----------



## thermal guy

I’m going to wait till someone gets one and reports back.it looks interesting but not sure on this yet.


----------



## bykfixer

I like the idea of an LED "high" with an A2, especially for added fuel mileage but am sticking with incan bulbs in mine.


----------



## thermal guy

Ya think that’s where I’m headed as well.brings back good memories 😁


----------



## bykfixer

The Tads system is pretty good for A2's. Nice beam from the stock A2 bulb model (forget the model # something 18 iirc but it's listed on the chart for which bulbs can do what).


----------



## ampdude

bykfixer said:


> I like the idea of an LED "high" with an A2, especially for added fuel mileage but am sticking with incan bulbs in mine.



Yup. I don't even worry about that at all. I have been using rechargeable cells in A2's for well over ten years without any problems. I have a couple of sets of IMR's that I currently rotate between my A2 and another light. My A2 is the main light I carry around the house at night.


----------



## thermal guy

2X16340’s won’t blow a stock A2 bulb?


----------



## Viper715

That’s the thing the driver is in the light so within a certain range no matter what you feed it the driver regulates the voltage to the bulb so no poof on rcrs.


----------



## archimedes

It does overdrive the stock LED ring though


----------



## Viper715

Very true. I run onion rings and Calipsoi rings in my A2s


----------



## chainsolid

I Have one
A2 4 flat black, I love it


----------



## ampdude

archimedes said:


> It does overdrive the stock LED ring though


----------



## ampdude

Yes it does overdrive the led ring. I haven't had any problems with my Surefire stock rings or onion ring though. With the bulb's soft start feature I hope it will continue to run for a very long time. Got spares though.


----------



## thermal guy

I remember the discussion on using 3.7 cells in the A2 but couldn’t remember where it left off thanks. And god that’s a beautiful A2 black and 4 sides! There was a time if you had one of them you were a flashlight god.


----------



## ampdude

thermal guy said:


> I remember the discussion on using 3.7 cells in the A2 but couldn’t remember where it left off thanks. And god that’s a beautiful A2 black and 4 sides! There was a time if you had one of them you were a flashlight god.



Yes, it's even more awesome knowing you can switch between rechargeables and back without changing lamps.

That's what I've always liked about the 9 volt lamp assemblies as well. Rechargeables for regular use. Primaries for backups, emergency stash or harsh weather conditions.


----------



## fivemega

thermal guy said:


> I remember the discussion on using 3.7 cells in the A2 but couldn’t remember where


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ad-s-customs&p=5032366&viewfull=1#post5032366


----------



## chainsolid

For my A2 I have some problem with a ring and I buy Koala ring and HO-A2 from Lumenfactory 
I never use 3.7 V, Because I don't want to destroy a ring

Now I try to clean the original ring and work normally I Keep original ring and incan for spare part


----------



## yazkaz

chainsolid said:


> For my A2 I have some problem with a ring and I buy Koala ring and HO-A2 from Lumenfactory
> I never use 3.7 V, Because I don't want to destroy a ring
> Now I try to clean the original ring and work normally I Keep original ring and incan for spare part


I acquired an A2 not long ago and also LF's LED upgrade. Did try 2x3.7Vs briefly but then stopped (I'd say less than 1 minute cumulative). The stock LEDs still light up but hope I didn't destroy them (and the ring)...

For cleaning, try CAIG's DeOxit D100 and G100. They're great for cleaning flashlight threads, contacts etc. The D100 helps remove oxidized material while the G100 rejuvenates the contact surfaces.


----------



## bignc

Round A2 Aviator (red) recieved in trade today. It is a neat light. I won't EDC it but I could see it being a camping light- maybe a backup in the bag. CR123 runtime on a stock Surefire lamp is not great compared to say a M61 L or LL but that's not the point is it? What about lamp life on 123 primaries- is about 50 hours still accurate? 

IF it fits, any reason NOT to use a 16650? I can't really discern from the LION/ INCAN threads I've read- does UNDER driving it by that amount damage the bulb? 

Just trying to decide if I want to keep it stock, run it on primaries, etc....


----------



## InvisibleFrodo

From what I know, once the battery voltage goes below 4 volts the incandescent will be disabled. I would try a pair of K2 energy 16340s.


----------



## fivemega

bignc said:


> IF it fits, any reason NOT to use a 16650?


*Won't fit and won't work.*


----------



## bignc

fivemega said:


> *Won't fit and won't work.*


Forgot about that thread AND the regulation/circuit/electronics being the issue. Thanks man!

Backup with primaries it is!


----------



## bignc

Too bad I have discovered the A2 after parts and support are shot. I use mine only as a sock drawer light- for me that means that if the SHTF, it would get packed with my bag of batteries and spare bulbs and malkoff parts and put in with socks and boxers before either hunkering down or grabbing a few more items and bugging out!

I take it out to play with but am afraid to hurt it or wear something out....


----------



## archimedes

bignc said:


> Too bad I have discovered the A2 after parts and support are shot .... I take it out to play with but am afraid to hurt it or wear something out....



I have several, and they are pretty sturdy, to say the least.

Nothing is indestructible, true, and support is increasingly limited indeed.

However, I've used one near daily on "moderate duty" use over several years, with no special concerns.

The main preps I've done is to get a couple of "user" backups for parts, and stocked up on lamps.

The A2 is such an amazing (and for me, near perfect) flashlight, that to never use it would be sad 

In particular, apart from normal consumption of lamps (although the soft-start circuitry helps these last much longer than more typical incandescents) , it is the switch which is the part most likely to eventually fail. So, try to get a few of those if you can, and you should be good[emoji106]


----------



## bignc

Z62 is the gas pedal natural?


----------



## archimedes

bignc said:


> Z62 is the gas pedal natural?



That is correct


----------



## yazkaz

archimedes said:


> I In particular, apart from normal consumption of lamps (although the soft-start circuitry helps these last much longer than more typical incandescents) , it is the switch which is the part most likely to eventually fail. So, try to get a few of those if you can, and you should be good


Agree that the tailcap switch seems to be the weakest link. But lately it's not easy to obtain one even on eB...
Previously there was presence of used ones that came without switch boot and retainer ring (third party replacements available later in the month). Complete ones are even harder to find.

Good thing is that the A2L tailcap is compatible with the A2 (even though the dot indicator position does not match). So if anyone can't find the original Z62 the A2L variant should be just fine...


----------



## bignc

Yazkaz, are you certain? I mean first hand or close? I will find one just in case if you know this! Thx


----------



## bignc

Just for giggles, I have an L1 and an L2 (well, my wife absconded with them.) Same?


----------



## ampdude

bignc said:


> Just for giggles, I have an L1 and an L2 (well, my wife absconded with them.) Same?



Yes, it's the same tailcap. I think the LX2 internals are the same as well from what I seen with mine, though the outer shell is different of course. It's not like Surefire shouldn't have stock of the mechanism, the problem is getting Surefire to repair an old switch or sell just the mechanism.


----------



## bignc

Well, more thinking of lego/cannibalism if need be. Guess that's why I love my Malkoffs!!!

Thank you, amp!


----------



## yazkaz

bignc said:


> Yazkaz, are you certain? I mean first hand or close? I will find one just in case if you know this! Thx


Bought a used A2L tailcap a while ago for testing. Does fit onto the A2 without problem (except for the dot indicator not lining up with the body nub), high/low mode all normal..

However, the tailcap came without boot and retainer ring. Will have to wait till third-party replacement parts are available, then I'll refurb the tailcap and put it on sale. If interested, let me know.


----------



## bignc

Too bad a friend of incandescent e series lights doesn't make aviator/ L series replacement parts. I have plenty of Mark's stuff and would absolutely trust it. Not sure if the market is big enough but still....


----------



## yazkaz

bignc said:


> . . .I have plenty of Mark's stuff and would absolutely trust it. Not sure if the market is big enough but still....


Not big enough but AFAIK LF is committed to keeping certain parts ecosystem going.
The shrouded Z62 (A2) boot retainer ring is one such example.
In a few weeks time replacement boots will also be available for purchase.


----------



## bignc

IMPORTANT NOTE....

Emailed Surefire about tailcaps for the L1 and lx2 and got 2 sent to me.... Just saying....


----------



## kaichu dento

Other than the Onion Rings, who else was making the dimmable neutral white LED rings for the A2? I'm going to get rid of mine and can't remember who I ordered it from.


----------



## id30209

kaichu dento said:


> Other than the Onion Rings, who else was making the dimmable neutral white LED rings for the A2? I'm going to get rid of mine and can't remember who I ordered it from.



Nobody...but be patient. Koala messaged me saying he’s preparing come back with better and upgraded Onion Rings[emoji41]


----------



## archimedes

kaichu dento said:


> Other than the Onion Rings, who else was making the dimmable neutral white LED rings for the A2? I'm going to get rid of mine and can't remember who I ordered it from.



@calipsoii made these for a relatively brief while, with a different design and features

There was also the Aviatrix version, long ago, by Atomic Chicken


----------



## kaichu dento

archimedes said:


> @calipsoii made these for a relatively brief while, with a different design and features


That's it! I bought a few of the Calipsoii rings and that's what I still have with this one. One of the best things was the incredible low level, and that the ring matched the tint of the incandescent main bulb. 

You're the one who encouraged me to even try these in the first place and they're an incredible light with the upgraded ring.


----------



## kaichu dento

id30209 said:


> Nobody...but be patient. Koala messaged me saying he’s preparing come back with better and upgraded Onion Rings[emoji41]


Archimedes answered it - it was Calipsoii, and I don't know if he's still around or not, but they should have made them using his rings right from the factory.


----------



## archimedes

kaichu dento said:


> That's it! I bought a few of the Calipsoii rings and that's what I still have with this one. One of the best things was the incredible low level, and that the ring matched the tint of the incandescent main bulb.
> 
> You're the one who encouraged me to even try these in the first place and they're an incredible light with the upgraded ring.



Yes, they are fantastic, and I have a couple of these.



kaichu dento said:


> Archimedes answered it - it was Calipsoii, and I don't know if he's still around or not, but they should have made them using his rings right from the factory.



He still drops in on CPF, from time to time


----------



## Lumen83

id30209 said:


> Nobody...but be patient. Koala messaged me saying he’s preparing come back with better and upgraded Onion Rings[emoji41]



This is great news! I hope Koala posts here to let us know when they are ready.


----------



## yazkaz

bignc said:


> IMPORTANT NOTE....
> Emailed Surefire about tailcaps for the L1 and lx2 and got 2 sent to me.... Just saying....


May I know when this request was made? Just recently, or months/years ago?


----------



## bignc

yazkaz said:


> May I know when this request was made? Just recently, or months/years ago?



Sorry, thought it was implied in context with the thread that it was recent. To be exact, I emailed them 8/26, reply received 9/4 and two tailcaps received 9/14.


----------



## kaichu dento

archimedes said:


> Yes, they are fantastic, and I have a couple of these.
> 
> He still drops in on CPF, from time to time


Probably no new Calipsoii rings available anymore more though I assume? After getting my first one I thought they were the absolute bomb for the A2, especially with the tint and incredible low level programability.


----------



## archimedes

No, not for quite some time


----------



## strideredc

Does anyone know if Koala is going to make more onion rings? i have been trying to get one for ages but keep missing out for one reason or another!


----------



## Lumen83

Same here. Hoping to see some more soon but not sure if there are any plans for more to be made.


----------



## id30209

Asked Koala how’s situation in Australia and he said some changes and new stuff he’s gonna publish this year. He didn’t forget about us, freaks[emoji106]


Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## novice

I know that there was a yellow/green version of the A2, but was there also a green version, different from the Y/G?


----------



## DayofReckoning

novice said:


> I know that there was a yellow/green version of the A2, but was there also a green version, different from the Y/G?



Yes, Green and Yellow/Green, 2 different lights. Never understood the appeal or usefulness of the green when yellow/green was available. Yellow/green is getting harder and harder to come by.


----------



## bykfixer

The original Aviator flashlight was a plastic and alloy number by Just Rite that was a 2x AA with a #222 bulb that had a thumb operated "tit" that slid a red lens over or away from the bulb tip. Like other military lights of that era the switch was part of a pocket clip where sliding a ball forward caused parts to make contact. Pulling back caused parts to separate. There were some blue but those reportedly never were issued. 

By Vietnam Just Rite made them of alluminum and the less than reliable switch was now a twisty at the rear instead. Reportedly some green were also issued. The thinking there was if a pilot were shot down behind enemy lines green would light their way while being harder to spot by the enemy. No yellow lens was needed as the bulb tint already was. 





Both have a red lens. 

It was those funky purple Mickey Mouse ear beamed SureFire'd LED's that needed yellow/green to mimic incan at that time. 
We all know SureFire did a great Aviator light no doubt, but I just wanted to say where the idea for green began.


----------



## RedLED

Fixer,

You always amaze me with with the lights you have, and the history. 

This is really interesting.

You have knowledge like no one else.

Thanks!

Best,

RL


----------



## Duster1671

Short of waiting for a re-release of a drop-in LED ring, are there any good options for swapping the LEDs on an A2? I'd like to replace my original white (very blue tint) LEDs with something high CRI that's close to the CCT of the incandescent bulb. Or at least a warmer temperature than stock.

Are there any good 5mm LEDs out there with the same forward voltage as the stock LEDs? Are the LEDs just thru-hole mounted and accessible once the head is disassembled?


----------



## bykfixer

RedLED said:


> Fixer,
> 
> You always amaze me with with the lights you have, and the history.
> 
> This is really interesting.
> 
> You have knowledge like no one else.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Best,
> 
> RL



Red, I have had the good fortune of communicating with a few renouned flashlight historians and even some of those who created the items we now call historic. 
As a lad I had the honor of holding the flashlight for my dad a number of times and as an adult decided to research lights of my youth. It led to learning a lot about the origins. And through CPF archives and other places I was able to stitch together a lot of the loose threads scattered about the internet. So I do what I can to give back to the community when I can. 
The man himself told me a few stories of one of his proudest achievements at SureFire, the A2 Aviator. 

"Regulated light bulb!!" he hollered out one evening. "Nobody had done a regulated light bulb before so I decided to". 
-PK


----------



## ma tumba

Calipso programmable rings is on my top-3 list of flashlight upgrades. Although, realistically, I use them on their max setting. 

Koala, in our private communications about two years ago, hinted about a new version, so I hope it would be released sooner or later


----------



## Duster1671

ma tumba said:


> Koala, in our private communications about two years ago, hinted about a new version, so I hope it would be released sooner or later



A ring with the Yuji 3200K 95+CRI 5mm LEDs might be nice!


----------



## RedLED

Fixer, 

That is amazing, thanks for being here, and passing down all this info!

Best, 

RL


----------



## bykfixer

The real credit should go to author of the book "Flashlights" Bill Uteley (pronounced Yoot-lee) for opening my eyes to all things vintage. And collector extrordinaire Steve Gitterman for teaching me how to restore them. Also David White from gotalight.com for a link to olivedrab.com where early military lights were discussed. 

I took it from there. Then one fateful afternoon old member Lightlover introduced me to PK himself. And member Liftd4R introduced me to Don Keller. 
So they were the ones who fed the ocd voices in my head just enough bread crumbs to find the ginger bread house. He does not know it, but Scout24 also played a role with a 2c number made by Bright Star near his birthplace.


----------



## kaichu dento

ma tumba said:


> Calipsoii programmable rings is on my top-3 list of flashlight upgrades. Although, realistically, I use them on their max setting.


I bought a handfull of Calipsoii rings and one of the greatest pleasures was having the LEDs in the ring match the tint of the incandescent center bulb. I also used it at the ultra-low levels a lot as an aurora guide, where we needed to keep extraneous light out of peoples pictures. 
Calipsoii made the penultimate A2 rings and I just sold my last one, a very hard light to part with.


----------



## ampdude

kaichu dento said:


> I bought a handfull of Calipsoii rings and one of the greatest pleasures was having the LEDs in the ring match the tint of the incandescent center bulb. I also used it at the ultra-low levels a lot as an aurora guide, where we needed to keep extraneous light out of peoples pictures.
> Calipsoii made the penultimate A2 rings and I just sold my last one, a very hard light to part with.



I have Yujis in an old Onion Ring from Koala. It's awesome. They are both adjustable and I can change out the LED's. Why would that one be better?


----------



## archimedes

ampdude said:


> I have Yujis in an old Onion Ring from Koala. It's awesome. They are both adjustable and I can change out the LED's. Why would that one be better?



They are different not better. Koala lets you swap emitters easily. Calipsoii lets you change output on the fly.

The Calipsoii MM version also gives you the option of three separate color outputs, if selected (low/color1, med/color2, high/incand/lamp)


----------



## kaichu dento

ampdude said:


> I have Yujis in an old Onion Ring from Koala. It's awesome. They are both adjustable and I can change out the LED's. Why would that one be better?


I've only had Calipsoii rings and the things I loved about them were the easy output adjustability and incan-like output color of the emitters I'd chosen for it. I know the Koala's have always been highly rated too but for my purposes, I'd chosen the Calipsoii rings.

I see Archimedes already replied and I'd like to add that he's the one who answered all my questions regarding both the Calipsoii rings and everything related to the A2 years back when I first got interested in them.


----------



## archimedes

kaichu dento said:


> .... I see Archimedes already replied and I'd like to add that he's the one who answered all my questions regarding both the Calipsoii rings and everything related to the A2 years back when I first got interested in them.



Thanks buddy, still one of my all-time favorites.


----------



## kaichu dento

archimedes said:


> Thanks buddy, still one of my all-time favorites.


One of my friends at work lost my A2 and when he was paying me for it, he had me find another one, with the Calipsoii ring of course, so that he'd have one of his own. Great light and I wish someone would develop a modern take on it, with the throw and flood options both being independently controllable.


----------



## DayofReckoning

The factory A2 LED's get a bad rep, rightfully so compared to what's available nowadays. It's worth nothing though that it seems that later ranks of the A2's Nichia LED's are a lot better than some of the early lights, 4 flat models.

My round body (sn8XXXX) A2's LED's are at least twice as bright as my old four flats (sn 3XXX), and the tint is much less "angry" than the older Nichia's. Maybe I won the led lottery on mine, but I've also seen people report their newer model A2's LED's as being brighter.

I hope to acquire an aftermarket ring at some point, but the LED's on my round body A2 are good enough that they sufficed for the close to 10 years I've owned the light. 

I do get a kind of "Retro" type feeling using the old A2's "angry" purple/blue Nichias though.


----------



## bykfixer

I avoided the A2 for a while based on all the tomatoes being tossed by the crowd but one day I bought a beater round side one with white LED and frankly didn't mind it at all. My initial LED lights had really really bad tint so to me it wasn't so bad. 

It's a nostalgic thing to me, so the blumens are simply a reminder of the times back then before LED tints had gotten a lot better. Kinda like driving a stock 63 Ford and marveling at how zippy it must've been to the owner at the time. Eventually I installed a Tads adapter and bulb for inexpensive bulb replacement someday versus a $35 (if you can find one) bulb module. 

Later I acquired red, green, four flats etc but my favorite is that original beater light so well used most of the logo is missing (yet ano remains).


----------



## ampdude

I'm obviously not a big fan of the factory LED rings. And I think the angry blue nichia white rings gave the impression to most people that the incan bulb is in fact whiter than it really is, because it is regulated. I've disproved this many times through my own observations against different SF lamp assemblies and various stages of battery discharge.

I have a spare white factory LED ring that won't get used again unless necessary.


----------



## DayofReckoning

ampdude said:


> I'm obviously not a big fan of the factory LED rings. And I think the angry blue nichia white rings gave the impression to most people that the incan bulb is in fact whiter than it really is, because it is regulated. I've disproved this many times through my own observations against different SF lamp assemblies and various stages of battery discharge.
> 
> I have a spare white factory LED ring that won't get used again unless necessary.



Sure, because blue and purple tinted LED's really help to enhance that 3350K A2 beam's CCT whiteness :thinking:

Is this the part where you repeat the same demonstrably false claim that I've seen you post over and over again, year after year in reading old threads? About how the A2's beam is "too orange" and how it's "not as white as other SF lights".

Last time we had this conversation, you said you were going to "post some beamshots to prove your point". Perhaps you feel these aren't needed anymore, as you have already "disproven" this many times through your own observations?

Personally, I've compared the A2 against more Surefire Incandescent lights, bulbs and combos than I care to even think about, and the CCT and whiteness of the A2 never fails to impress. 

There are a few beamshots in JS's original A2 review here. If you compare them with the E2E and MN03, for example, one can clearly the superiority of the A2's CCT.

I would love to hear exactly what combination of bulb and battery you use to determine that the A2's beam is "too orange", "not driven hard enough" or whatever conclusion you came up with.


----------



## ma tumba

I found 5600K Yuji LEDs to be the best choice for the secondary. They are much floodier than the stock LEDs but when driven by 2x 3.7V cells they provide that optimal brightness without being overdriven to the point of tint change.


----------



## Kestrel

One common guideline with regards to online forums is; attack the post & not the poster.

One of my personal takes on that, is that a post can be problematic if it includes a substantial number of "you"s.

I know that might sound a bit simplistic, but it really is a good rule of thumb - it is much easier to have a discussion if it has not been excessively personalized in such a fashion ?
It may feel accurate while composing of the post, but it can feel /very/ personal to be on the reading end. While there really isn't a hard&fast rule on this topic, I do find this perspective to be beneficial.

Best regards,


----------



## Lumen83

ampdude said:


> I'm obviously not a big fan of the factory LED rings. And I think the angry blue nichia white rings gave the impression to most people that the incan bulb is in fact whiter than it really is.



I agree. The "white" LEDs ruin my white/white A2 for me. The A2 I have with Green LEDs is fine. But I can't stand the horrible tint of the white LEDs and I don't use that light because of it. Im looking to trade it for red or upgrade it with an LED ring when one becomes available.


----------



## DayofReckoning

Lumen83 said:


> I agree. The "white" LEDs ruin my white/white A2 for me. The A2 I have with Green LEDs is fine. But I can't stand the horrible tint of the white LEDs and I don't use that light because of it. Im looking to trade it for red or upgrade it with an LED ring when one becomes available.



The light will function without the LED ring. You can remove it if it bothers you too much. Might even gain a little tiny piece of runtime too.


----------



## bykfixer

This thread caused me to dust off an A2 for the evening jaunt.


----------



## novice

DayofReckoning said:


> The light will function without the LED ring. You can remove it if it bothers you too much. Might even gain a little tiny piece of runtime too.



Thanks for sharing that, DayofReckoning. I didn't know. I just tried completely removing the lamp and turning it on and realized that you can run the leds without any sort of lamp or bulb adapter in there also. What a wonderfully versatile light!


----------



## thermal guy

bykfixer said:


> This thread caused me to dust off an A2 for the evening jaunt.



And your post got me to do the same.Mine has a ring in it and it’s running some really warm whites.I have a lot of fond memories with My old A2. I used to do a fair bit of ghost hunting and it was my first really good light. Right after my E2.


----------



## DayofReckoning

No problem Novice.

For the close to 10 years I've owned the light, I've only run primaries. I've never wanted to degrade the LED's running Li-ion, and just never got the chance to pick up one of the aftermarket rings. 

A few weeks ago I picked up a pair of the k2 energy lfp123a 600mah cells. At 3.35V, I feel the amount of overdriving the LED's is negligible enough that I'm not worried. Using the Tad's 3712 I got 30min runtime exactly. 30min is a lot of time when just using the main beam in bursts, like the lights designed to be used.


----------



## skillet

I didn’t care much for the tint of the white LEDs so I swapped mine with Radio Shack 276-0017 - got this idea from a post long ago - Tint is creamy white and no angry blue.


----------



## ampdude

DayofReckoning said:


> Sure, because blue and purple tinted LED's really help to enhance that 3350K A2 beam's CCT whiteness :thinking:
> 
> Is this the part where you repeat the same demonstrably false claim that I've seen you post over and over again, year after year in reading old threads? About how the A2's beam is "too orange" and how it's "not as white as other SF lights".
> 
> Last time we had this conversation, you said you were going to "post some beamshots to prove your point". Perhaps you feel these aren't needed anymore, as you have already "disproven" this many times through your own observations?
> 
> Personally, I've compared the A2 against more Surefire Incandescent lights, bulbs and combos than I care to even think about, and the CCT and whiteness of the A2 never fails to impress.
> 
> There are a few beamshots in JS's original A2 review here. If you compare them with the E2E and MN03, for example, one can clearly the superiority of the A2's CCT.
> 
> I would love to hear exactly what combination of bulb and battery you use to determine that the A2's beam is "too orange", "not driven hard enough" or whatever conclusion you came up with.



I guess if it has bothered you for so long and in so many ways, you could easily post something to refute what I have been saying. Maybe if I feel like it I'll post some photos, I do need to do some maintenance one one of my A2's, but it's not a priority. I'm not saying you're wrong, or I'm right irrefutably, but you could contribute as well. I did just look at an A2 vs. a P60 with not so fresh batteries and yes, the P60 does have a whiter beam. And so does my beat up carry E2e/MN03 on not so fresh primaries. I'm pretty sure both lamp assemblies are driven harder than the A2's, and they certainly put out more light.



> There are a few beamshots in JS's original A2 review here. If you compare them with the E2E and MN03, for example, one can clearly the superiority of the A2's CCT.



What are you talking about, the A2 has a much larger and deeper reflector than the E2e, OF COURSE it's going to look brighter at that distance.


----------



## bykfixer

Perhaps the secret combo of gasses in the P60 and E bulbs burns brighter than the A2 so that when voltage is running down they won't appear so orange where the regulated A2 bulb stays consitant since it's regulated.

I do remember PK saying once that they spent a while computing potential combinations in order to achieve an over drive look while achieving more lifespan. He said at one point the earlier P60 bulb would often times poof before the batteries were depleted. He hired a Phd fellow to design the gas combo. He said the Phd fellow told him he needed a better computer because it took 5 computers a week each to solve some of the equations so SureFire spent a bunch of money on a better computer so it wouldn't take so long to come up with potential combos to try in a test batch. They set the stage for others later to have truely "educated guesses" instead of blind faith trial and error.


----------



## ampdude

bykfixer said:


> Perhaps the secret combo of gasses in the P60 and E bulbs burns brighter than the A2 so that when voltage is running down they won't appear so orange where the regulated A2 bulb stays consitant since it's regulated.



I don't know the specs of the filament of the MA02 vs. the P60/MN03, but I do know the MA02 runs at a slightly lower voltage and I've always suspected it is a little under driven.


----------



## ampdude

bykfixer said:


> I do remember PK saying once that they spent a while computing potential combinations in order to achieve an over drive look while achieving more lifespan. He said at one point the earlier P60 bulb would often times poof before the batteries were depleted. He hired a Phd fellow to design the gas combo. He said the Phd fellow told him he needed a better computer because it took 5 computers a week each to solve some of the equations so SureFire spent a bunch of money on a better computer so it wouldn't take so long to come up with potential combos to try in a test batch. They set the stage for others later to have truely "educated guesses" instead of blind faith trial and error.



I guess that kinda makes sense to me. I posted an earlier thread on this a long time ago, but I believe it was just because the gases had escaped from the earlier plastic based P60 lamp. It was perfect before I put the batteries in and fired it up. I'm sure I still have the pics somewhere. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ndescent-lamp-assembly-made-for-Surefire-6-6C

Somehow they must have got it really right for the sort of HOLA's like the P61, P91, and MN21.


----------



## DayofReckoning

ampdude said:


> I guess if it has bothered you for so long and in so many ways, you could easily post something to refute what I have been saying. Maybe if I feel like it I'll post some photos, I do need to do some maintenance one one of my A2's, but it's not a priority. I'm not saying you're wrong, or I'm right irrefutably, but you could contribute as well. I did just look at an A2 vs. a P60 with not so fresh batteries and yes, the P60 does have a whiter beam. And so does my beat up carry E2e/MN03 on not so fresh primaries. I'm pretty sure both lamp assemblies are driven harder than the A2's, and they certainly put out more light.​
> 
> 
> ampdude said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm an avid reader of thread's on the A2, which is collected together here in this index. I never had, or intend to personally "attack" you on the subject, but when I see something that is demonstrably, verifiability false repeated over, and over, and over again across all the different threads I've read, I stand it's reasonable to call that out. And I will attempt to do that by here by "attacking the post, not the poster" as kindly and wisely suggested earlier.
> 
> In that index of reviews, opening just a few of them reveals some comments such as
> 
> "_The P60 in the G2 has a (barely) nicer beam in terms of shape, but the A2 has got it beat in whiteness_."
> 
> " _The P90 is slightly brighter - though surprisingly, not by a whole lot more, but the A2 is most definitely WHITER. It's whiter than even the P91_"
> 
> "_Compared to the E2e, to my eyes, the output was the same. The A2 was a tad bit whiter and tighter._"
> 
> That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the user reports of how white the A2's beam is. The whiteness of the beam is one of the greatest attributes of the A2 that we consistently see mentioned by owners.
> 
> And we must remember, most of these reports are from people that were running the factory MA02. The lumens factory lamps are a bit brighter than the stock lamp, and the 3718 1.8A Lamp is available from Tad's for even more output.
> 
> Furthermore, I would like to hear a dispute to Lumens Factory's own listed specifications. In their specifications page for the A2 here, it's listed as being 3350K. In the specifications for all the D26 modules (aka P60/P90 type) here  not one single lamp is listed as high as 3350K, all falling short, even the E0-9 at 380 bulb lumens on Li-ion can only achieve a listing of 3325K. It must be noted that most of these lamps are vastly superior to the P60 running on primaries in terms of sheer output and CCT. Therefore it is impossible for a P60 or MN03, with unfresh batteries mind you, to be whiter than the A2 and MA02. This is assuming there are no physical issues (dirty contacts, old degraded bulb, etc)​
> And the distance in that photo in JS's review is only 33 feet. That's close enough in my opinion that the CCT difference can still be visible in the photo, and considering the not so big difference between the two lights in throw. Despite that, more than enough evidence exists to show the A2 is very good in the CCT department and better than most.
> 
> 
> ​
Click to expand...


----------



## bykfixer

Let it go man. Please, pretty please with sugar on top.


----------



## thermal guy

How the hell does a thread about one dam fine light turn into a pissing match?! Really?


----------



## DayofReckoning

thermal guy said:


> How the hell does a thread about one dam fine light turn into a pissing match?! Really?



Just a disagreement that started back at the beginning of this thread. Not looking to turn anything into the above term used. I've said what needs to be said.

At least we are all in agreement that the A2 is a dam fine light


----------



## Kestrel

No worries everybody; all is running per-specification.


----------



## Grijon

I have a stock Surefire P90 module that is dimmer than any of my stock Surefire P60 modules, regardless of what cells I put in.

I assume I just have a bad module.

I believe sometimes individuals report their individual experiences with an individual item as general fact, and sometimes many times in different places leading to a false appearance of widespread generality - and I can completely understand another’s desire to correct the situation.

I have also learned that it is true that literally every person’s eyes are different, and that some battles we will never “win” in trying to “correct” a difference in perception/opinion.

On topic, I have never wanted an A2 more than since this thread started.


----------



## DayofReckoning

Grijon said:


> I have a stock Surefire P90 module that is dimmer than any of my stock Surefire P60 modules, regardless of what cells I put in.
> 
> I assume I just have a bad module.
> 
> I believe sometimes individuals report their individual experiences with an individual item as general fact, and sometimes many times in different places leading to a false appearance of widespread generality - and I can completely understand another’s desire to correct the situation.
> 
> I have also learned that it is true that literally every person’s eyes are different, and that some battles we will never “win” in trying to “correct” a difference in perception/opinion.
> 
> On topic, I have never wanted an A2 more than since this thread started.



Once you use the A2, it's a real gamechanger. A2's are going for good prices, I would love to see you join the club


----------



## ampdude

Grijon said:


> I have a stock Surefire P90 module that is dimmer than any of my stock Surefire P60 modules, regardless of what cells I put in.
> 
> I assume I just have a bad module.
> 
> I believe sometimes individuals report their individual experiences with an individual item as general fact, and sometimes many times in different places leading to a false appearance of widespread generality - and I can completely understand another’s desire to correct the situation.
> 
> I have also learned that it is true that literally every person’s eyes are different, and that some battles we will never “win” in trying to “correct” a difference in perception/opinion.
> 
> On topic, I have never wanted an A2 more than since this thread started.



I also have modules that are all over the place, Surefire's to Lumens Factory, to other manufactures. One of my oldest P90's is a Laser Products marked module I got in a trade about 15 years ago. It already looked like it had been rode hard and put away wet many times back when I got it. It's dimmer than any of my other P90's and the reflector has some minor scratches. I used it as the main module for many years working security at night. I've put hundreds of hours on it hoping it would die, it just won't and the bulb hasn't even darkened. I'd say it's probably 75% output of a typical P90. It's not dimmer because it's older, I have some old Laser Products P90's that are brighter than some much newer Surefire P90's.


----------



## ampdude

DayofReckoning said:


> In that index of reviews, opening just a few of them reveals some comments such as
> 
> "The P60 in the G2 has a (barely) nicer beam in terms of shape, but the A2 has got it beat in whiteness."
> 
> " The P90 is slightly brighter - though surprisingly, not by a whole lot more, but the A2 is most definitely WHITER. It's whiter than even the P91"
> 
> "Compared to the E2e, to my eyes, the output was the same. The A2 was a tad bit whiter and tighter."
> 
> That's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the user reports of how white the A2's beam is. The whiteness of the beam is one of the greatest attributes of the A2 that we consistently see mentioned by owners.
> 
> And we must remember, most of these reports are from people that were running the factory MA02. The lumens factory lamps are a bit brighter than the stock lamp, and the 3718 1.8A Lamp is available from Tad's for even more output.
> 
> Furthermore, I would like to hear a dispute to Lumens Factory's own listed specifications. In their specifications page for the A2 here, it's listed as being 3350K. In the specifications for all the D26 modules (aka P60/P90 type) here not one single lamp is listed as high as 3350K, all falling short, even the E0-9 at 380 bulb lumens on Li-ion can only achieve a listing of 3325K. It must be noted that most of these lamps are vastly superior to the P60 running on primaries in terms of sheer output and CCT.
> Therefore it is impossible for a P60 or MN03, with unfresh batteries mind you, to be whiter than the A2 and MA02. This is assuming there are no physical issues (dirty contacts, old degraded bulb, etc)
> 
> And the distance in that photo in JS's review is only 33 feet. That's close enough in my opinion that the CCT difference can still be visible in the photo, and considering the not so big difference between the two lights in throw. Despite that, more than enough evidence exists to show the A2 is very good in the CCT department and better than most.



Maybe too much faith in reviews and not so much personal experience. Seems like this is fuel for another thread. I'll post some pics and create a new one so as not to get this one off track. I have had the lumens factory version of the MA02 bulb as well, including the short run of unfrosted bulbs. They are slightly brighter than the stock bulb. CCT is also affected by brightness and at that distance with the larger reflector the A2 has more brightness than the E2e. Lights that throw better appear brighter to the average user. 33 feet is a long ways for an E2e with a typical reflector. Some are less orange peel than others, but the typical E2e reflector is a short range light.


----------



## DayofReckoning

ampdude said:


> _*Maybe too much faith in reviews and not so much personal experience.*_ Seems like this is fuel for another thread. I'll post some pics and create a new one so as not to get this one off track. I have had the lumens factory version of the MA02 bulb as well, including the short run of unfrosted bulbs. They are slightly brighter than the stock bulb. CCT is also affected by brightness and at that distance with the larger reflector the A2 has more brightness than the E2e. Lights that throw better appear brighter to the average user. 33 feet is a long ways for an E2e with a typical reflector. Some are less orange peel than others, but the typical E2e reflector is a short range light.



Well, I've owned, and heavily used two different A2's, a 4 fours flats and a newer round body, for over the span of close to 10 years now. A lot of that time done comparing the A2 to different lights. Does that count as personal experience?

I combine the following to reach my conclusions

(1.) a decade of personal experience with the light 
(2.) First hand user reports and reviews made by several key individuals who have proven to be trustworthy, reports that verify my own personal findings
(3.) The official technical specifications support my conclusion

That's pretty much it. You are certainly welcome to start a new thread on the subject if you feel this conversation is derailing the thread (which I don't feel it is). I was hoping you would acknowledge the bit I put forth on the LumensFactory specifications though.

I did find an old post with some beamshots, and it does show a P60 next to the A2, but sadly the image is not displaying properly. This is however enough there visible to see the difference between the two.

The image is on the far right, and the order from left to right in the first 4 boxes is, P60 A2 G90 P91

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...KHcPCB5kQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#imgrc=GZDSigCzufxzVM:


The A2 is visibly whiter in that photo than the p60 and g90. Hard to tell with the p91, it's so massively bright. Both have larger reflectors than the A2 as well.

I tried taking some beam shots myself. The result was not good  I'll have to read up on how to do beam shots. I can't take anything that shows the difference, everything's pretty washed out.

I still believe more than enough evidence exists to support my conclusion. But in the end though, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone's free to disagree.


----------



## thermal guy

If you guys want a real ugly beam try your A2 with green LEDS! Omg I literally cannot use it. When you hit high you get this green tint to the spill. I’m no tint snob but it really is an ugly beam.


----------



## cm_mtb

Anyone have a white LED ring they want to part with? Bonus if it's one of the aftermarket options.


----------



## archimedes

cm_mtb said:


> Anyone have a white LED ring they want to part with? Bonus if it's one of the aftermarket options.


Please post your request in WTB forum.


----------



## lion504

Have any A2 aficionados ever replaced their stock, crenalated bezel ring? Is it thread locked? Easy to do? What tools did you use? Thanks.


----------



## id30209

I did open all of my A2’s bezel and replaced almost all of them with altermann’s custom brass bezel. 
I’ve used hot air gun or even hair dryer to soften the glue a bit. Placed a piece of leather around bezel and with small adjustable pliers gently squeeze and turn. 
I think only on 1 i didn’t use anything but my bare hands.


Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## lion504

Thanks! I was hoping for some good news like this. Can you share more details about the altermann's brass bezel? Maybe a pic? I saw a replacement Ti bezel on eBay; I'd like to get something that's smooth and bare metal.


----------



## id30209

lion504 said:


> Thanks! I was hoping for some good news like this. Can you share more details about the altermann's brass bezel? Maybe a pic? I saw a replacement Ti bezel on eBay; I'd like to get something that's smooth and bare metal.




Sorry i missed your reply.
Here`s his thread. I have only brass bezels
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...amp-A2-L1-tailstands-KT-heads-Retaining-rings


----------



## bignc

$60 to a CPF er and got a spare 4 flats with red leds. The lens has a small crack but it's usable and a bargain for a whole light/ spare parts.  One little "pliers" scrape on the body. I may swap heads and start using this one since I don't care if it gets scraped up a bit. 

These are still cool lights!


----------



## bykfixer

Yes they are still cool lights. 

I carried my green LED one the other evening and got a kick out how it changes how stuff appears.


----------



## scout24

I carry one of mine with Tad's "hot rod" bulb (3718?) on occasion for dog walking, it goes through cells a bit quicker than a stock bulb. Gets warm, too!


----------



## bykfixer

Sounds like it has a covid killer head Scout.


----------



## ampdude

bykfixer said:


> Yes they are still cool lights.
> 
> I carried my green LED one the other evening and got a kick out how it changes how stuff appears.



I don't think I've ever used a green A2. Maybe once long ago. How did it change things? I know the eye is most sensitive to green light.


----------



## rrego

scout24 said:


> I carry one of mine with Tad's "hot rod" bulb (3718?) on occasion for dog walking, it goes through cells a bit quicker than a stock bulb. Gets warm, too!



Awesome! I have two Tad drop ins for my A2s. They run a 3718 and a 4812, on 16340s. Yes, the 3718 gets toasty, so does the 4812 after a while .

One of these days, I'll land a Blue LED one to complete the collection.


----------



## bykfixer

ampdude said:


> I don't think I've ever used a green A2. Maybe once long ago. How did it change things? I know the eye is most sensitive to green light.



Being I have never worn night vision goggles I surmize it was making things appear similar, but a much darker green. Like wearing Christmas tree green celophane across your eyes. My dog still looked like a dog. But she was green.

My beater has a 3712(?), the one that is supposed to put out 80 lumens. But the funky old white LED is what gets used most.


----------



## ampdude

I have an old green KL1 I shined next to a 6P. I think I get it now. I always thought it was kind of the oddest A2 color. And yet possibly the most useful for the technology of the time, since the stock Surefire (angry blue) white LED rings were not exactly my favorite source of light back then, or now.


----------



## DayofReckoning

I always felt the Yellow/Green was the most interesting color, though I've never seen one in person. I recall something about reduced bloom/glare when used in conjunction with Night Vision.

Now that I think about it, it's been a while since I've seen one up for sale. Their most certainly the most rare color in my experience.


----------



## ampdude

I would agree, don't see many Y/G's or G's either. Most common seems to be white, blue, and red. Then green, and finally yellow green. Kind of in that order too.


----------



## archimedes

I have a few YG, always thought the GN were the rarest.


----------



## ampdude

Yea, could be. I have no idea the production numbers on any of them, but it always seemed like the white and then the blue models were the most common. Red was third, and then the two greens. Just my perception over the years. I could be totally off and maybe they made the same amount of each color, but it doesn't seem that way to me.

They HAD to have made more white A2's than anything though, that seems pretty obvious.


----------



## archimedes

Wish we had the exact data :shrug:

No way the production numbers were the same for each color, though.


----------



## ampdude

Definitely the one I have always seen the most of is white.


----------



## archimedes

ampdude said:


> Definitely the one I have always seen the most of is white.


Although the white was pretty blue, lol


----------



## brianbridgeman

I've never used mine. Looking for a led drop in so I can start using it.






Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk


----------



## thermal guy

An LED for your main beam? Lumens factory has one but then you don’t really have an A2 anymore. The incandescent is really what made it stand out


----------



## DayofReckoning

Can't say I fully understand the desire to take the one and only mass production light in existence that incorporates regulation and soft starting technology, which results in a beautifully white 100CRI beam, and bulbs that have extraordinary lifespans, and go on to replace it with an LED drop-in. when we live in a world of thousands of different models of LED lights to choose from. Any uniqueness the A2 has disappears once that LED drops in.


----------



## brianbridgeman

I guess your right. I just feel like the machining is beautiful and the materials are top notch so I'd like to give it a little more use. I have a baton pro that does all the camping stuff but it just doesn't have the feel in your hand the a2 does.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk


----------



## ampdude

DayofReckoning said:


> Can't say I fully understand the desire to take the one and only mass production light in existence that incorporates regulation and soft starting technology, *which results in a beautifully white 100CRI beam,* and bulbs that have extraordinary lifespans, and go on to replace it with an LED drop-in. when we live in a world of thousands of different models of LED lights to choose from. Any uniqueness the A2 has disappears once that LED drops in.



I agree with this. Not 100% on the incan bulb though and you know why. We'll get there at some point DOR  (thread subplot)

I found a NIB A2-Yellow Green a few weeks ago. That might add some mystery to this. I haven't even seen one in forever. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong on your point so I plan on doing this subjectively. Recently I found out I was wrong about a certain fact on the Surefire M4 and I'll be posting about that as well. Some people will be surprised about what I found.


----------



## DayofReckoning

Ampdude, I found these beamshots that you might find interesting. 

A2 with MA02 https://superfonarik.ru/beamshots4/p1-Surefire-Aviator-Xenon-(MA02).jpg
A2 with LF HO-A2 https://superfonarik.ru/beamshots4/p1-Surefire-Aviator-Xenon-(HO-A2).jpg
E2E with MN03 https://superfonarik.ru/beamshots4/p1-Surefire-E2E-(MN03).jpg
G2 with P60 https://superfonarik.ru/beamshots4/p1-Surefire-G2-(P60).jpg
G2 with P91https://superfonarik.ru/beamshots4/p1-Surefire-G2-(P91).jpg

These are a good tool for doing a comparison. 

Bulb temp and CCT aside, I'm glad we agree that the A2 is better off without an LED dropin. Bulbs are still plentiful.


----------



## Lumen83

archimedes said:


> I have a few YG, always thought the GN were the rarest.



I have the Green and really like it. Compliments my red, blue, white Kroma very well. I also have the white A2 and have thought about trading it or selling it for a while. I just can't get used to the blue tint and have been holding out for the koala rings so long now to hopefully swap it with red.


----------



## Buck91

Just scored a square-side a2 with red leds. Are there any replacement led rings out there still? Would like to run some warm white 5mm leds... How would that affect the collect ability of the light?


----------



## lion504

See this thread. Unfortunately, all out of production and very hard to find. There are rumors of another koala run. 

I bought a mint A2 with intentions of a similar LED ring upgrade and adding a Tad Custom bi-pin adapter. Neither are available.

So I sold the A2, ending my foray into the incan world. :shrug: 

Hope you have better luck or more patience.


----------



## Xander Bolanos

Hey guys long time fan and Lurker of the thread👀
I’ve been following google links to CPF for over 10 years🤓
I have had a variety of Streamlight, Maglite, and Surefire Torch's over the years.
All of them have come and gone except for my Surefire A2🥰
I even heavily upgraded and milled a 6P Defender, I carried that for years but never loved it like my A2.

The A2 function, design, revolutionary digital circuitry, and continuous steady powered incandescent bulb combined with low power LED’s, has made it my favorite Flashlight/Torch for EDC. 
Its not the brightest Torch out there, or the flashiest, but its never let me down.
I genuinely like the incandescent bulb design and have 0 interest in swapping the main bulb with a LF LED conversion.
Thats why while doing my research I have found I am not trying to change my A2 to be something else. I just want it to be the best version of itself.
That being said I know there are some rare mods that make the A2 a better version of itself. 
I know I’m several years late to the party🥳👻🥳👻🥳👻
But Dear God I would love to find the below listed mod products in order from top to bottom. Yes I know the rarity(notice the Unicorn), and the time that has passed since they stopped being offered for sale from the original maker. But they say hope springs eternal😇.


----------



## bykfixer

Welcome to CPF. 

Best of luck in your quest. Get yourself two more posts and folks can personal message you if they are selling items you seek.


----------



## 325addict

Indeed, it's a rare beast, that original A2. Normally, we have got used to regulated LEDs, but.... regulated INCANS?? And that's what I really like about it. The stock LEDs are horrible indeed, that's why I changed them to warm white 5mm LEDs, these have nearly the same light color as the incan bulb. Now, I TRULY have a low and high with the same light.

I use it for the purpose it was intended for: pre-flight inspection of an aeroplane... every single time, everything just HAS to be checked before you even start the engine and taxi to the runway. That included all kinds of joints and hinges under the wings... where you can't see accurately without the help of a flashlight. Then, the A2 Aviator comes and shines!



DayofReckoning said:


> The greatest incandescent flashlight ever conceived. A masterpiece of technological innovation. A thing of beauty and wonder. A flashlight so unique that no other exists like it.
> 
> As you can tell by my opening statement, I am a HUGE A2 Aviator fan. Maybe huge is an understatement. Either you get this flashlight, or you don't. I was enlightened to the miracle and wonder that the A2 is many moons ago. And there has yet to be a time when this little light has not put a smile on my face.
> 
> Despite LED technology advancing everyday, lumens getting brighter and brighter, into the thousands of lumens, nothing is as beautiful to me as the wonderful white, digitally regulated beam that the A2's little filament produces. I've seen the best hotwire beams there are, yet none brings me the joy that little "50 lumen" beam produces. And nothing matches the perfection and simplicity of its UI, the Surefire 2 Stage tailcap.
> 
> Surefire has attempted to make 2 successors to the Aviator, and in my humble opinion, neither has come close to matching the original A2. It's uniqueness and legacy is unsurpassed, and will stay that way.
> 
> If I was forced to give up every single flashlight I had, but only keep one, I would keep my A2. Long live the A2 Aviator, the greatest incandescent flashlight ever!


----------



## id30209

They are still the most beautifull lights i have.


----------



## Xander Bolanos

Those are some nice tail caps and bezels😎
are the colored bands to designate LED color???



id30209 said:


> They are still the most beautifull lights i have.


----------



## ma tumba

Too bad that a single cell A1 has never occurred


----------



## id30209

Xander Bolanos said:


> Those are some nice tail caps and bezels[emoji41]
> are the colored bands to designate LED color???



Yes, colored orings tell what LED color is installsd


Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## Xander Bolanos

So at the risk of being hated. 
I found one🤓
Aviatrix LED Ring 2 White/1 Red multimode 
Fivemega Bi-pin adapter Strion bulb
Housed in a 4 flats A2 with only minutes of use. 
So my hours of reading random online posts from pre 2010 has yielded me a Aviatrix owner kind enough, to make shattering my shoulder in July, having surgery, titanium replacements with 9 months of Physical Therapy worth it🙈🔥🙈🔥👏👏👏👏


----------



## archimedes

Yes, we don't do pricing or appraisal here in the discussion forums, as you've guessed.

Congrats on your find, and in just days !

The 4-flats A2 are an earlier generation, and considered more collectible, although their switches and bulb fitment may be slightly less reliable than the later models.


----------



## Xander Bolanos

I edited my post to follow rules👍
I know I got real lucky but I own a Team Associated RC8.2 Buggy, do you know how hard it is to find parts for a discontinued RC Buggy👻
I am simply a case of randomly reaching out to people till I found someone who could help. Persistence and dumb luck does sometimes pay off.

Is there anywhere I can post my previous questions and be within the rules?


----------



## archimedes

Is the bezel on yours flat or crenellated ?


----------



## Xander Bolanos

Edited


----------



## archimedes

Xander Bolanos said:


> I edited my post to follow rules👍....



Much appreciated, particularly given our prior discussion via PM 



Xander Bolanos said:


> .... Is there anywhere I can post my previous questions and be within the rules?



You are welcome to search completed sales of A2 here on CPF. We request that members leave all relevant details of their WTB / WTS threads posted, for that very reason, as it provides a valuable archive of data.

Thanks for your understanding, and cheers !


----------



## archimedes

Xander Bolanos said:


> weird it copy pasted an old open window lol.
> It appears to be a smooth head bezel in the photos I saw. I will ask next time I speak with them.
> I have some friends that are more computer savvy then me, actual programmer, and engineer, I wonder how hard it would be, to reverse engineer the Aviatrix? Cause if I can have more of them made, it be dumb not to. I’d be happy to open source all findings.



Detailed build log, here ...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ire-A2-Aviator-replacement-LED-ring-pic-heavy

It would be advisable and courteous to check with @calipsoii and @Atomic_Chicken of course, although I haven't seen the latter on CPF for many years.


----------



## Xander Bolanos

archimedes said:


> Much appreciated, particularly given our prior discussion via PM
> 
> 
> 
> You are welcome to search completed sales of A2 here on CPF. We request that members leave all relevant details of their WTB / WTS threads posted, for that very reason, as it provides a valuable archive of data.
> 
> Thanks for your understanding, and cheers !


Thank you for your help. I know I came in yelling at the top of my lungs. 
I am sometimes ignorant but never intentionally. i appreciate this forum and will try to contribute back.


----------



## Xander Bolanos

edited​


----------



## archimedes

Those discussions are probably best handled privately.


----------



## LED61

325addict said:


> Indeed, it's a rare beast, that original A2. Normally, we have got used to regulated LEDs, but.... regulated INCANS?? And that's what I really like about it. The stock LEDs are horrible indeed, that's why I changed them to warm white 5mm LEDs, these have nearly the same light color as the incan bulb. Now, I TRULY have a low and high with the same light.
> 
> I use it for the purpose it was intended for: pre-flight inspection of an aeroplane... every single time, everything just HAS to be checked before you even start the engine and taxi to the runway. That included all kinds of joints and hinges under the wings... where you can't see accurately without the help of a flashlight. Then, the A2 Aviator comes and shines!




325, how did you change your LED´s ? I would like some like the SMJs or your warm where are they for sale ?


----------



## Olumin

I just got my A2 today, from 2006, was still new in box. Its a fantastic light, however the blue tint of the LEDs is driving me a bit nuts (got the version with "white" LEDs). Ive read that sanding the LEDs down a bit can remove this blue tint (originally meant to make the colored LEDs more floody), I find this to be a bit of stretch to be honest. How would roughening the surface of the LEDs change their tint? Is there any truth to this mod? Ill give it a shot if there is something to it, its easy enough to do. 

If anyone still got a original or aftermarket _red _LED ring laying around, shoot me a PM.


----------



## ma tumba

I don’t see why you can’t get whatever 5mm leds you want and swap those stock ones. I did that with high cri yuji leds before I had got a calipso ring.


----------



## Swedpat

Olumin said:


> I just got my A2 today, from 2006, was still new in box. Its a fantastic light, however the blue tint of the LEDs is driving me a bit nuts (got the version with "white" LEDs). Ive read that sanding the LEDs down a bit can remove this blue tint (originally meant to make the colored LEDs more floody), I find this to be a bit of stretch to be honest. How would roughening the surface of the LEDs change their tint? Is there any truth to this mod? Ill give it a shot if there is something to it, its easy enough to do.
> 
> If anyone still got a original or aftermarket _red _LED ring laying around, shoot me a PM.



I don't know if the LED version of A2 is modifiable. But Lumens Factory has a 350lumen 4000K module for A2


----------



## Olumin

What? I know, im talking about the incan version of cause. I was reffering to the LED ring („low mode“ on the A2), which came in 4 different colors I belive, one of which is white.


----------



## Swedpat

Olumin said:


> What? I know, im talking about the incan version of cause. I was reffering to the LED ring („low mode“ on the A2), which came in 4 different colors I belive, one of which is white.



Ok, I misunderstood you!


----------



## Daniel_sk

I did it again - I bought another SF A2 after selling the previous one 3 years ago. It's now my third A2, I always buy and sell it after some time. Why do I keep doing this? Every time I sell it I start missing it. There is no rationale in this, I guess it's just nostalgia. 
I really appreciate that Lumens Factory is still making bulbs for the A2, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to justify buying it. Unfortunately Tad Customs stopped selling the bi-pin adapters + proprietary bulbs, so this option is now gone. I guess I should build a small stockpile of these lamps just in case LF will also stop selling them (but they are bit on the expensive side at $21...). I will probably run it with primaries and not bother with rechargeables, I don't use it that much anyway and primaries can be bought cheap in bulk. 

Now I hope that Koala will start selling the Onion rings again this year so that I can put some nicer white LEDs and set the brightness. 

There is one dream I have - to own the rare purple A2 (if anyone wants to sell me his, please shoot me a PM. The chances are zero I guess :mecry...


----------



## Buck91

Those tads A3718 bulbs are pretty slick. Better than the factory bulb and WAY better than the LF option. Just picked one a 5 pack from his eBay close out but looks like those are running out (unless you get the adapter package).


----------



## novice

Daniel_sk said:


> There is one dream I have - to own the rare purple A2 (if anyone wants to sell me his, please shoot me a PM...



There was also the prototype A2 turbohead that I've only seen a photo of. I'm curious how much further it projected the main beam, and what it did to the three dim leds that came through at the base of the reflector...


----------



## bykfixer

Swedpat said:


> I don't know if the LED version of A2 is modifiable. But Lumens Factory has a 350lumen 4000K module for A2


I scored a 1 cell LED aviator with an incan E head and Scout tailcap already installed. I put a Tana in it but at times swap in an E1 bulb. I call it the aviatEr.


----------



## Daniel_sk

I don't want to start a new thread to ask this - does anyone know the size (or whatever information is needed) of the O-rings in the head section and in the tailcap? I have an old 4-sided A2 where the tailcap in front is torn and I would like to replace. I would like to purchase both (front and rear) to have replacement ready. Calling SF is not an option for me - I am outside of US and they will not send it it to me and I can get these o-rings here. As far as I understand these are Buna-N type O-rings.


----------



## yazkaz

Daniel_sk said:


> I don't want to start a new thread to ask this - does anyone know the size (or whatever information is needed) of the O-rings in the head section and in the tailcap? I have an old 4-sided A2 where the tailcap in front is torn and I would like to replace. I would like to purchase both (front and rear) to have replacement ready. Calling SF is not an option for me - I am outside of US and they will not send it it to me and I can get these o-rings here. As far as I understand these are Buna-N type O-rings.


I purchase a lot of o-rings from my usual gear/o-ring/tools dealer. Most of the time I have to re-spec the ring sizes for slightly tighter fit. I also don't quite keep track of the o-ring type (the dealer only carries Buna-N I believe) and the manufacturer (although the sales receipt would indicate the latter).

For the A2 here's my preferred o-ring specs:
Head (thickness x ID): 1.78x17.4mm
Tail (thickness x ID): 1.78x15.8mm
Auxiliary filler o-ring for lanyard ring groove on tailcap: 2x17mm x2pcs.

All dimensions are approximate (ie. if they're of original imperial sizes then the dimensions are converted to the nearest mm)

Hope that helps.


----------



## Daniel_sk

Thank you. I found a helpful o-ring size chart which also has metric equivalents here.

I found out that the original A2/L1 tailcap O-Ring should be #14 1/2" ID x 5/8 OD (here is a picture of the original surefire part size with 014 size). In metric it's 12.42mm x 1.78mm. This is a bit smaller than your specs, but I think the SF also smaller and you have to stretch them to fit. I will order both sizes and I will check which fits better. 
I haven't found the head o-ring spec, but the size should be either #17 or #18 - which is either 17.17mm or 18.77mm ID. 
I found a shop here that also has O-rings in the US sizes.

SF O-rings are Buta-N SH70 which I think is the same as standard NBR 70 O-rings in EU.


----------



## yazkaz

Daniel_sk said:


> Thank you. I found a helpful o-ring size chart which also has metric equivalents here.
> 
> I found out that the original A2/L1 tailcap O-Ring should be #14 1/2" ID x 5/8 OD (here is a picture of the original surefire part size with 014 size). In metric it's 12.42mm x 1.78mm. This is a bit smaller than your specs, but I think the SF also smaller and you have to stretch them to fit. I will order both sizes and I will check which fits better.
> I haven't found the head o-ring spec, but the size should be either #17 or #18 - which is either 17.17mm or 18.77mm ID.
> I found a shop here that also has O-rings in the US sizes.
> 
> SF O-rings are Buta-N SH70 which I think is the same as standard NBR 70 O-rings in EU.


12.42mm ID for A2's tailcap o-ring? Too small. When I re-spec an o-ring size I always measure the o-ring groove diameter for reference, then go for and ID slightly smaller, such that there's less stretching but still yields good fitment without going too loose. (Elsewhere outside the uS only the ID size is used, but not the OD)

My local dealer also offers o-rings in various standards (ie. US and metric size specs). NBR does ring a bell (I probably have purchased that brand a lost). Sometimes the rubber material is a bit different in hardness so that's another factor to consider.

Once you've determined the specs of the o-rings you want, commit to that size and stick to that for a long time -- unless you come across a similar part which has the o-ring specs amended. 
Also don't be afraid of getting something a bit off. It's a trial-and-error thing and oftentimes you'll need to acquire different o-ring sizes (eg. one size up and/or down) for reference purposes.


----------



## Daniel_sk

Thanks. It does seem small. I ordered a bunch of different sizes, I will have a lifetime supply of these when they arrive. These are so cheap that the most expensive part is the shipping (stores are closed here and there is now near me anyway, so it's cheaper for me to order them). I will let you know what size I used in the end and I will definitely write down the sizes so that I don't need to guess again. I also have a M6, so I ordered bigger o-rings that should fit.


----------



## kamagong

Future A2 Aviator fan checking in? Have one on the way.


----------



## FranktheTank

Hello everyone, 

I'm glad to have found this forum, I will receive next week my A2 NOS, I'm excited and read with interest the possibilities to modden this 

Wish you a happy new year and I will report when everything has worked out.

(whereby this will probably also be nothing new for many  )


----------



## Daniel_sk

Welcome in the club . I would recommend you to first try the A2 in the stock form for few days.
I think the most reasonable upgrade is to replace the LEDs or the whole LED ring (search CPF for Koala rings) so that the white LED are pure white and more efficient. The original white LED version has usually an awful blue tint. I tend to use the A2 mostly on the low mode. You can also sand the LEDs to soften and improve the beam. Unfortunately Koala has suspended the production of his custom LED rings during Covid (I am too waiting until he resumes production).
Then you can look into replacement bulbs. I would not recommend to replace the bulb with a LED dropin, I think at this point you can just use a modern LED flashlight.


----------



## FranktheTank

Hello Daniel, thank you for your detailed answer. Your idea first to use the flashlight as it is makes sense. In the meantime I read the infinite contributions to this flashlight. Thanks also for the "Koala" hint, I will read through. I'm just wondering about myself that a flashlight can keep me so busy.


----------



## kamagong

Definite A2 fan checking in. Received this late model yesterday along with a spare bulb. I spent a fair amount of time last night re-reading some of the old A2 threads.







What a wonderful light. Why did I wait so long to pick one up?


----------



## bykfixer

Welcome aboard. I thought the same thing when my first A2 arrived.


----------



## kamagong

That escalated quickly. I just bought a bi-pin adapter and 10 A3712 bulbs from Tad.



bykfixer said:


> Welcome aboard. I thought the same thing when my first A2 arrived.



The A2 is a reminder of why SureFire built the reputation and following they did. Such a neat piece of kit.


----------



## bykfixer

Ha, I bought a Tads kit too. I stuck with stock LED's though. 

Regulated light bulb. Amazing.


----------



## Daniel_sk

Tad only has a handful of these bi-pin adapters with bulbs remaining. The 3712 has a clean nice looking beam, very comparable to MA02 at the fraction of cost. 10 of these should last you a very long time. I have a stock pile of 20 of these bulbs. So I recommend anyone to grab them while you can . LF still makes HO-A2 but it's much more expensive. Then you can try to find FM bi-pin adapter and buy Strion bulbs. Btw. while Strion bulbs will fit the Tad adapter, it will not be focused correctly because of different base height. 

My only missing item are Koala LED rings. I really hope he will do at least one last run. The last gen A2 while LEDs are plenty bright (almost too bright), but the tint is quite blue.


----------



## mcm308

Ive been using A2's for probably 20 plus years. I have a big primary stash just for them but I recently picked up some efest 16340s that I'm going to give a go. The A2 is one of the goats.


----------



## desert.snake

some lamps give a radioactive pattern if lowered too much inside the reflector))


----------



## mcm308

kamagong said:


> That escalated quickly. I just bought a bi-pin adapter and 10 A3712 bulbs from Tad.
> 
> 
> 
> The A2 is a reminder of why SureFire built the reputation and following they did. Such a neat piece of kit.



I was watching that on ebay and seen it sold when I checked today. I didn't know he's done and is selling the remainder of his stock so I just bought 2 A2 sockets from his other auctions. All good things do come to an end...

and while I was at it...I grabbed a nice A2-HA-RD as well...LOL


----------



## Daniel_sk

I just received this rare piece. It's nice, good display item (I am not going to carry this) but a lot of money for "porcupine" logo and different bezel ring .


----------



## kamagong

Daniel_sk said:


> I just received this rare piece. It's nice, good display item (I am not going to carry this) but a lot of money for "porcupine" logo and different bezel ring .



Was it worth it?


----------



## Daniel_sk

Good question, but I think there is no universal answer - it depends on your individual goals. If you want to collect every A2 model, then it's worth it . Of course from a practical view, there is no reason to buy this rare model. The newest and much cheaper standard A2 model will do the same job and will be even better maybe. In my case I started my journey with the goal to just have one A2, and maybe one spare one, and then maybe the old square model and now I have also this, it's easy to fall into the hole . So it really depends and in my case I am not sure if it was worth it. Good thing is that it will probably not loose the value if I ever decide to resell it later.


----------



## Buck91

Daniel_sk said:


> Good question, but I think there is no universal answer - it depends on your individual goals. If you want to collect every A2 model, then it's worth it . Of course from a practical view, there is no reason to buy this rare model. The newest and much cheaper standard A2 model will do the same job and will be even better maybe. In my case I started my journey with the goal to just have one A2, and maybe one spare one, and then maybe the old square model and now I have also this, it's easy to fall into the hole . So it really depends and in my case I am not sure if it was worth it. Good thing is that it will probably not loose the value if I ever decide to resell it later.





I pretty happy with my collection of one A2, which just so happens to be the old square body. I just wish I could justify carrying it!


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Carry one of them, and if you don't use the Led ring much then remove it. The battery will last longer. The output is actually almost 80 lumens per a study done here on CPF. years ago.

Bill


----------



## ampdude

Bullzeyebill said:


> Carry one of them, and if you don't use the Led ring much then remove it. The battery will last longer. The output is actually almost 80 lumens per a study done here on CPF. years ago.
> 
> Bill



I remember that, I thought it was more like 70 though for the Surefire OEM. I think the Lumens Factory version might have been the one closer to 80. I used to have some of the bulbs from the unfrosted run Mark did a long time ago and it was noticeably brighter and more throwy than the Surefire OEM lamp. As far as the thread I don't remember if the measurements were with or without the ring.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

I think you are right re the 70+ lumrns. I was part of the the group that was checking out light meters with different flashlights, the A2 included.

Bill


----------



## kamagong

ampdude said:


> I remember that, I thought it was more like 70 though for the Surefire OEM. I think the Lumens Factory version might have been the one closer to 80. I used to have some of the bulbs from the unfrosted run Mark did a long time ago and it was noticeably brighter and more throwy than the Surefire OEM lamp. As far as the thread I don't remember if the measurements were with or without the ring.





Bullzeyebill said:


> I think you are right re the 70+ lumrns. I was part of the the group that was checking out light meters with different flashlights, the A2 included.



I couldn't find the original data, but here's some info from js's ode to the A2.



js said:


> Let’s set the record straight: *the A2 is putting out something on the order of 75 to 80 lumens.*I know this for two reasons. First, a private lab tested several lights in an integrating sphere for Arc Flashlights, LLC, one of them being the E2e. They rated the E2e at 83 lumens on fresh batteries. I own both an E2e and an A2 and I cannot see any difference in total output between the A2 and the E2e running on fresh cells. Second, McGizmo tested the A2 in his integrating sphere as part of the CPF light-meter benchmarking project and arrived at 79 lumens.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Good digging out guys. At the end of the passing out of the lights for testing out our various light meters a qualified lab did lumen tests of those lights. I had the results, but lost them over time.

Bill


----------



## ampdude

Good stuff, thanks for finding that.

Though I think the E2e/MN03, and any P60 based light is more like 100 lumens on fresh batteries with a quick taper off to 80 and then down to 65 after a bit.

It still doesn't mention if the A2 measurements are with or without the ring though. The ring can put out an extra 10-15 lumens or so with the white version in factory stock form.

With some modern higher end 5mm LEDs and an aftermarket ring like a Koala or Aviatrix I could see a much larger lumen boost on a meter, especially the cool white 6500K ones (yuck).


----------

