# Emisar D4



## TCY (Jul 25, 2017)

No official info yet but this is what I found on a Chinese flashlight forum, apparently they are doing a beta test and only a handful of these are sold through private channel.


Basically this light is designed just like M43, with "extreme" in mind. This thing is insanely overdriven, *4 Nichia 219C = 3000+ lumens on a single 18650


*But yeah, we all know the turbo mode isn't exactly practical. That said, no one is buying a Noctigon light for months of runtime eh? we have Zebralight for that.

Size: 

Length: 93.8mm 

Weight: 66.8g 

18500 and 18350 battery tubes available.


Update: Noctigon's owner sends me the manual for the D4. It's in Chinese so my translation might not be entirely correct. It looks like the light will have the Emisar branding instead of Noctigon but they still call it "Meteor" in Chinese forums anyway.

*Manual: *

LED flashes twice when tail cap screwed on with unprotected battery in.

When in infinite brightness adjustment mode, LED flashes once to indicate firefly, low and turbo.

Press & hold for over half a second for firefly

A single click goes to low (110lm by default, I assume this is for the XP-G2 variant?) or memorised mode

Double click for turbo (double click goes to turbo in every circumstances, with lockout being an exception)

Press & hold to enter infinite brightness adjustment. release & hold to decrease brightness (I see TK saying this mode has a ~2 seconds memory that resets the direction but the manual I was given doesn't mention it)

Additional features (LED flashes 4 times = activated, twice = deactivated)

Voltage check: Click three times and LED flashes. Basically works the same as the Nitecore equivalent. e.g. LED flashes three times, pause then seven times means 3.7V. Press once to exit.
Temp Check: Double click two seconds after Voltage check is on. Works the same way.

Tactical mode: 4 quick clicks to activate. Press & hold for turbo. Nothing else. 4 quick clicks to deactivate.

Lockout: 6 quick clicks to activate, 6 quick clicks to deactivate. (I still suggest a physical lockout though)

Beacon: 8 quick clicks to activate. Uses memorised brightness. 

When completely cooled down, 10 quick clicks & hold the 11th click performs a tempcheck. LED continues to flash for a few seconds and goes to turbo. Press & hold to increase temp regulation value, default it 45C to a max of 70C. LED flashes to indicate the temp set. 

D4 can only maintain low mode when battery voltage is at 3.2V, turbo can only be turned on for a few seconds. Low voltage protection kicks in at 2.8V and D4 stops working completely.


















*Below are beam shot comparisons, starring the D4 and Nitecore TM36:*


----------



## maukka (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

How is the Noctigon branded one different from the Emisar D4 by Noctigon's Hank Wang?


----------



## TCY (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Apparently a fellow BLF member has already got the light and posted a review almost two weeks ago. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55306

The new light is actually called Emisar D4 for some reason. New product line? I contacted the owner/seller/manufacturer? of Noctigon and he agreed to set one aside for me when the next batch becomes available. Impulse buy for sure, but I don't think I'll look back and regret it when it's only $35 USD.


----------



## TCY (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



maukka said:


> How is the Noctigon branded one different from the Emisar D4 by Noctigon's Hank Wang?



That's why I'm a bit confused as I see all these lucky Chinese owners calling it "Meteor D4" and its Taobao (sort of like a Chinese version of eBay) link says the same. Different branding? Dunno.


----------



## TCY (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



maukka said:


> How is the Noctigon branded one different from the Emisar D4 by Noctigon's Hank Wang?



Compared to the BLF review I find that the UI manual provided to me has some pretty neat improvements. Now it's Zebra-ish but with the infinite brightness control. I'll see if I have the time to translate the whole manual into English and post it here.


----------



## EDness (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I have one and I love the UI on the initial release. Starts at low and it ramps...2x click to turbo. That's pretty much what i want in a light. You won't regret it...i love mine.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

From the BLF review of the Emisar D4 peak output out-the-front with Nichias is approx 3700 lumens and with XPL-HI 4200 lumens.

Toykeeper is in the process of testing an improved ramping UI with feedback from people on BLF. The new UI sounds like it is the best e-switch UI I've ever heard of. Newer production models of the Emisar D4 will use this version 2 UI.


----------



## markr6 (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Pretty cool! I would need something to get me into a medium mode quicker though, without the ramping. A quick moonlight is nice, so it turbo, but I have a feeling the ramping and "guessing" to stop on a medium-high level would be too cumbersome. I say this without actually using it, so time will tell.

$35 at mtn electronics? I like


----------



## noboneshotdog (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



markr6 said:


> Pretty cool! I would need something to get me into a medium mode quicker though, without the ramping. A quick moonlight is nice, so it turbo, but I have a feeling the ramping and "guessing" to stop on a medium-high level would be too cumbersome. I say this without actually using it, so time will tell.
> 
> $35 at mtn electronics? I like



Supposably the new UI that toy keeper has been working with now has mode memory of the last used brightness level. So there shouldn't be too much tweaking up and down once you find the level you like.


----------



## markr6 (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



noboneshotdog said:


> Supposably the new UI that toy keeper has been working with now has mode memory of the last used brightness level. So there shouldn't be too much tweaking up and down once you find the level you like.



This could be a total winner...another light on the wish list.


----------



## wimmer21 (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



EDness said:


> I have one and I love the UI on the initial release. Starts at low and it ramps...2x click to turbo. That's pretty much what i want in a light. You won't regret it...i love mine.



Great to hear this. I have one in the mail.


----------



## mattodio (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Been a while since I bought a light but this one definitely sounds like a winner. Does the gray body match the meteor? Would be nice if the two were exactly the same


----------



## TCY (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



mattodio said:


> Been a while since I bought a light but this one definitely sounds like a winner. Does the gray body match the meteor? Would be nice if the two were exactly the same



It might be a bit darker but I can only be sure when mine arrives.


----------



## TCY (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



markr6 said:


> Pretty cool! I would need something to get me into a medium mode quicker though, without the ramping. A quick moonlight is nice, so it turbo, but I have a feeling the ramping and "guessing" to stop on a medium-high level would be too cumbersome. I say this without actually using it, so time will tell.
> 
> $35 at mtn electronics? I like



UI updated, a single click goes to the memorised mode which is a bit better eh? Anxiously waiting for mine:naughty:


----------



## noboneshotdog (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Price just went up to $40. Still a must have for me.


----------



## Keitho (Jul 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Me wantee!


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jul 26, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Nice!

Checking my tracking number my Emisar D4 from Mountain Electronics should arrive in the mail on Friday. Also coming with it is a copper quad star with 4x high-CRI Nichia 219C. I plan to swap the stock emitters with these high-CRI ones. Richard's quad stars have the emitters all rotated at different angles instead of parallel. This should eliminate any issues with square beam pattern caused by having all emitters mounted parallel to eachother.

Hopefully my D4 will arrive with Toykeeper's superior version2 UI.

If all goes well, this weekend I'll have a light with 3700 lumens of high-CRI 4000K output, the best UI available for an e-switch light, and all in a package smaller than a Zebralight SC600.:laughing:


----------



## markr6 (Jul 26, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I was looking at the v2 UI on mtn electronics site. I like it!


----------



## TCY (Jul 26, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> Nice!
> 
> Checking my tracking number my Emisar D4 from Mountain Electronics should arrive in the mail on Friday. Also coming with it is a copper quad star with 4x high-CRI Nichia 219C. I plan to swap the stock emitters with these high-CRI ones. Richard's quad stars have the emitters all rotated at different angles instead of parallel. This should eliminate any issues with square beam pattern caused by having all emitters mounted parallel to eachother.
> 
> ...



I was hoping they have a stock version of 4000K 90+CRI 219C. Is it hard to swap the LEDs for the D4?


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jul 26, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



TCY said:


> I was hoping they have a stock version of 4000K 90+CRI 219C. Is it hard to swap the LEDs for the D4?


I'm not sure. Guess I'll find out.

Since this light was designed by flashlight enthusiasts I'm hoping nothing is glued. I also don't recall any mention of glue in the review I read on BLF. I'm hoping the bezel is just screwed in and the driver is press-fit. Hopefully it will be just a simple matter of unscrewing the bezel, removing the reflector, desoldering the stock star, then replacing it with my new star.

I'll post in this thread my results.


----------



## Keitho (Jul 26, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Post in BLF said that the (prototype) driver was glued but removeable, and the LED board could be replaced by desoldering the power wires and freeing the board from the thermal paste (no glue). But, I'm pretty sure that wasn't a final production version.


----------



## TCY (Jul 27, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> I'm not sure. Guess I'll find out.
> 
> Since this light was designed by flashlight enthusiasts I'm hoping nothing is glued. I also don't recall any mention of glue in the review I read on BLF. I'm hoping the bezel is just screwed in and the driver is press-fit. Hopefully it will be just a simple matter of unscrewing the bezel, removing the reflector, desoldering the stock star, then replacing it with my new star.
> 
> I'll post in this thread my results.



I asked Hank Wang and apparently they don't have any 4000K 90CRI 291C to stuff into their D4. Given that I have absolutely zero soldering skill.. looks like I'm stuck with the stock 219C.


----------



## Tixx (Jul 27, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

My light has an issue. I have it on the lowest level and magically after about 5-10 seconds it either goes up to an obviously higher level or just straight to high. I even set it down thinking there is some sort of magical function I am activating by holding it. Like the light, but this is not good.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jul 27, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Got my black Emisar D4 today.

This was one of Richard's leftover stock from the first one. Fortunately he flashed it with the updated V2 UI before shipping. Mine's S4 2B.

Also purchased at the same time for this light:
* Black 18350 tube
* some of those new ultra-high capacity 1100 mAh 18350 cells
* One of Richard's offset quad boards with high-CRI 4000K Nichia 219C on them.

Though I purchased the 18350 tube to try out, this light is small enough I'll probably just run it on 18650.

Here are my initial impressions:
* *Fit and finish* - excellent. The black anodizing is flawless and everything is assembled well. Light worked perfectly out of the box. Looks and feels very high quality.

* *Size *- very nice. Definitely small enough for EDC. Smaller than the Nitecore Concept 1 I've been EDC'ing for the last 3 weeks. It's also considerably smaller than the Astrolux S42 and Manker E14II (with all 3 lights using 18650 tubes. Note that the comparison isn't completely fair: All 3 lights are small quad-emitter setups, but the D4 lacks onboard USB charging present in the other lights. This allows the D4 to save some space.

* *"Hand feel"* - OK, but could be better. This is the term I use to refer to how secure and comfortable the light feels in my hand. With the stock 18650 tube, the light is nicely sized to fit the hand and the switch and heatsink fins provide a small amount of extra grip. However, the light really needs some kind of knurling on the battery tube to get a higher rating. Smooth battery tubes may look good, but they feel slippery. Even a small amount of knurling in the right places goes a long way and this light has none except for the ribs on the tailcap. Maybe they will sell some 18650 tubes with knurling on them. A knurled tube would increase the "hand feel" rating to excellent.

* *Output *- Outstanding. This really is a pocket-rocket. Output at max power is tremendous... over 3500 lumens at max turbo going all the way down to a true moonlight mode (NOTE: I consider "moonlight" to be low enough that you can stare into the emitters without hurting your eyes. If it's brighter than that it's "low", but not "moonlight"). After I swap the Nichias into this one I'll buy another and put in XPL HI with 5A2 tint. XPL HI should produce more lumens and more throw than the Nichia.

* *UI *- _EXCELLENT_. Truly one of the best UIs out there. Very simple, with shortcuts to moonlight and turbo and smooth fast ramping between. The light remembers the last used mode. This is truly one of the best UIs out there. That said, it could still be improved slightly: Rather than having a single-click go to last used mode, I would prefer it to remember and go to the last ramped mode. As-is, if you use the shortcuts to moonlight or turbo they will override your memorized intermediate mode. It's not a huge issue though since ramping is so smooth and easy in this light. I would probably also add an extra click to all the multi-click shortcuts after the first two. That would free up triple-click to use as another preset mode... maybe have triple-click be 30% power or something like that.

The ramping on this light deserves special mention. It's fast, taking maybe 3-4 seconds to go from moonlight to max turbo. It is also incredibly smooth with no visible steps, and it ramps both directions. I've tried other lights with ramping and this is by far the smoothest. The only other lights I've tried that are as smooth as this are ones with infinitely variable brightness rings.

* *Thermal management*. As expected, the head of the light does get hot quickly at max turbo. After 10-20 seconds thermal management kicked in an gradually diminished the output. This decline occurred in gradual, but noticeable, steps. The thermal management is fully programmable in the UI, but I found that in the stock configuration it was just right. The head got quite hot, but never dangerously so. This is calibrated just how I like it, so no need to recalibrate.

* *Switch *- the switch button is relatively small and has ridges making it very comfortable to find and press. It is not recessed. The center of the button projects maybe 1 mm above the head of the light. When I rolled the light upside down on a table and pressed, the light turned on from the pressure of the table. The button is close enough to the head that it is almost, but not quite flush. To me this is not ideal. For hot-rodded side-switch lights I prefer to have the button recessed like on Zebralights, to minimize the chances of accidental activation. A lot of the convenience of a side-switch light is lost if lockout must be used. 

I'll have to do more testing to see if I like it as-is or have to use the lockout. Even turning off the light in moonlight mode probably won't help because if it turns on in the pocket it will likely ramp to turbo and stay there. 

The light does feature electronic lockout so can be locked or unlocked easily with one-handed operation. However, a better solution may be for the next version of the Emisar to use a taller switch retaining ring that projects above the surface of the head and helps shield the button.

*Overall Impression*: This is an outstanding light that breaks away from the pack. Truly one of the best I've tried in years. The size, output, UI, weight and choice of emitters make this light much superior to the other small quads on the market from Manker and Astrolight. I'm extremely impressed and will definitely be buying more samples of this light. This is about as close to a perfect pocket EDC that I've come across yet.


----------



## TCY (Jul 27, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Thanks for sharing. I see intl-outdoor has ~120 units available now so @markr6 might as well grab yours now before they are gone! Hope I get my tracking number soon, paid some big bucks for DHL shipping. Can't wait:naughty:


----------



## Keitho (Jul 27, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



TCY said:


> Thanks for sharing. I see intl-outdoor has ~120 units available now so @markr6 might as well grab yours now before they are gone! Hope I get my tracking number soon, paid some big bucks for DHL shipping. Can't wait:naughty:


Thanks for the tip, got mine on order! This will be a very tough "12 working days" of waiting!


----------



## ven (Jul 28, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Awesome info /feedback fireclaw, thanks for taking the time


----------



## markr6 (Jul 28, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



TCY said:


> Thanks for sharing. I see intl-outdoor has ~120 units available now so @markr6 might as well grab yours now before they are gone! Hope I get my tracking number soon, paid some big bucks for DHL shipping. Can't wait:naughty:



Uhhh, just cost me another $40 

But black or gray?? Can't decide. I think gray. In my cart and ready to go, but this is giving me pause:



Fireclaw18 said:


> Rather than having a single-click go to last used mode, I would prefer it to remember and go to the last ramped mode. As-is, if you use the shortcuts to moonlight or turbo they will override your memorized intermediate mode.


----------



## Keitho (Jul 28, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



markr6 said:


> But black or gray?? Can't decide. I think gray. :


I went with black...it will have to do until they come up with something darker!

11.5 very difficult "working days" to go...


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jul 28, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Last night I did an emitter swap. 

Replaced the XPG2 S42B cool white emitters with Nichia 219C 4000k 90+ CRI. The new emitters came mounted on one of Richard's new copper quad stars that has each emitter rotated at a different angle, which helps produce a more rounded beam pattern. The new star was thinner than the stock star so I built a spacer out of copper sheet to place between the star and shelf (with Arctic Silver 5 thermal grease applied to both sides)

*The result*:

* *Light gets hotter faster*. This is not a good thing since it already got hot very fast. Expect max turbo periods to be no longer than 15 seconds or so. This result is not surprising given that Nichia 219C has lower vF and pulls more amps than XPG2. Note that even at full power, the light won't self-destruct as it has a thermal sensor, which I recalibrated to be more sensitive.

* *Beam is a wall of light*. Lacks the throw of XPL HI, but can reach a respectable distance through sheer output.

** Beam tint and CRI are excellent*. Reminds me a lot of the old high-CRI 219B, but much, MUCH, *MUCH* brighter (approx 3700 lumens out-the-front). By far my brightest High-CRI light.


----------



## plata0190 (Jul 29, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Nice job... now some beamshot wold be appreciated. You go PM


----------



## Connor (Jul 29, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Very nice flashlight, if this is going to be available with 219Cs in R9050 in the future I'm gonna order one right away.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jul 31, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Emisar D4 is now back in stock at Mountain Electronics.


----------



## noboneshotdog (Jul 31, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Ordered xpg2 5000 k today! Yaaaaaaaaaahoooooooooo!


----------



## TCY (Jul 31, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Just got mine. Definitely a well built light for the price, and definitely heats up fast as advertised. The 219Cs on mine look like 5500K, noticeably cooler than the 4885K 219Bs on my M43, which is alright but I prefer something warmer. If the R9050 4000K flavour becomes available I'll probably sell mine and order one.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jul 31, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



TCY said:


> Just got mine. Definitely a well built light for the price, and definitely heats up fast as advertised. The 219Cs on mine look like 5500K, noticeably cooler than the 4885K 219Bs on my M43, which is alright but I prefer something warmer. If the R9050 4000K flavour becomes available I'll probably sell mine and order one.


Got soldering skills? The D4 is easy to mod and Mountain Electronics sells 4000K high-CRI 219Cs.


----------



## TCY (Jul 31, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Practicality wise I think the ZL SC600 series wins easily. D4's ramping UI does have its oomph but I find the ZL's UI to be more intuitive and straightforward, it would be nice if the D4 has ~2 pre selected modes for fast switching and the ramping to adjust to personal needs. That said, the D4's UI still blows most of the traditional flashlight UIs out of the water. You really can't expect more for $40.

TK has updated the UI on 27/07 which allows a double click while on turbo to go back to the previous mode, and a single click from off goes to the last used level instead of moonlight. A shame mine doesn't come with these, I almost roasted my hand trying to bring the D4 back to non-turbo.


----------



## TCY (Jul 31, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> Got soldering skills? The D4 is easy to mod and Mountain Electronics sells 4000K high-CRI 219Cs.



I have more experiences as an astronaut than a solder pro.

I have no experience as an astronaut.


----------



## Esko (Aug 2, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Looks pretty good but I guess I'll wait for the possible future evolutions. I would like to have an option to have (e.g.) 5 or so equally spaced modes to ramp through, instead of the infinite brightness adjustment. I just prefer knowing my energy consumption... Buying this light would also mean that I had to buy unprotected batteries, something that I have managed to avoid so far (even with the Meteor).

I am also wondering the decision to create a new brand(?).

So, this is like a fiery little brother of Meteor. Any news about the big brother that was supposed to be released more than half a year ago? I wonder if the challenges turned out to be too difficult to solve and project got cancelled.


----------



## TCY (Aug 2, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Esko said:


> Looks pretty good but I guess I'll wait for the possible future evolutions. I would like to have an option to have (e.g.) 5 or so equally spaced modes to ramp through, instead of the infinite brightness adjustment. I just prefer knowing my energy consumption... Buying this light would also mean that I had to buy unprotected batteries, something that I have managed to avoid so far (even with the Meteor).
> 
> I am also wondering the decision to create a new brand(?).
> 
> So, this is like a fiery little brother of Meteor. Any news about the big brother that was supposed to be released more than half a year ago? I wonder if the challenges turned out to be too difficult to solve and project got cancelled.



My thoughts exactly, It would be better if the UI has a couple of hidden pre selected modes to switch between. I wouldn't worry about battery being unprotected as long as the light you stuff it in has its own good protection circuitry. So far ZL and Noctigon/Emisar are doing very well in terms of protecting my NCR18650GAs and Samsung 18650 30Qs.

I heard that Hank Wang Came up with a XPL-HI prototype that does 13,500 lumens but gave up as it's just not much of an improvement over the old M43. I hope he comes up with something really impressive, although the Nichia flavour M43 is more than enough for me. That 219B tint is gosh darn perfect.


----------



## eraursls1984 (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*




TCY said:


> I





TCY said:


> heard that Hank Wang Came up with a XPL-HI prototype that does 13,500 lumens but gave up as it's just not much of an improvement over the old M43. I hope he comes up with something really impressive, although the Nichia flavour M43 is more than enough for me. That 219B tint is gosh darn perfect.


He could release the same exact light with 4 quad boards and XP-L HI at an increase of $20-30 and call it the M44. The XP-L HI would increase the output as well as the four extra emitters, but I doubt that would be enough for an increase of 6000 lumens over the XP-G2 quadruple triple version like the prototype you speak of.


----------



## TCY (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



eraursls1984 said:


> He could release the same exact light with 4 quad boards and XP-L HI at an increase of $20-30 and call it the M44. The XP-L HI would increase the output as well as the four extra emitters, but I doubt that would be enough for an increase of 6000 lumens over the XP-G2 quadruple triple version like the prototype you speak of.




My guess is that Hank is trying to stay on top of the soda can light game. After the M43 I would definitely not spend the money on a similar light.


----------



## cclin (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

As far as I know, M44 (13500lm) project aborted, in real world usage with the naked eye at ~5000 lumens increase output is insignificant. not worth for the time & money.
M4hi project retains, 8000lm, 1,1000,000 CD, not sure it will change in the future.


----------



## Keitho (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



cclin said:


> As far as I know, M44 (13500lm) project aborted, in real world usage with the naked eye at ~5000 lumens increase output is insignificant. not worth for the time & money.
> M4hi project retains, 8000lm, 1,1000,000 CD, not sure it will change in the future.


That makes sense--even the Vinh mods on the M43 didn't get a crazy improvement in output, even with his mad skills. The fire breathing pop-can >15,000 lumen lights being released these days are all bigger than the M43 by quite a bit, and are only interesting to me from a technical point of view, but not for my personal uses. I've pretty much decided I'll have to wait a couple or a few generations of LED improvements for an M44 in the same form factor with a meaningful output increase (I'm sure that 275 high-CRI lumens per watt is just around the corner!) In the meantime, I'm (im)patiently waiting for my D4's to arrive on Monday (finally)!


----------



## KY Joe (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I own an xpg2 5700k version and it is a hot rod. Literally too hot to hold over 25 seconds on turbo (full fet). Toy keeper modified the firmware to have much better thermal controls and it is fully adjustable. The ramping works well, goes from moon to turbo in 2.5 seconds. The xpg2 version is the least hot model. Apparently the nichia version are too hot to hold after 15 seconds. Once thermal regulation kicks in it cools to a manageable level pretty fast. The xpg2 version that I have is 3,300 lumens otf on startup with fully charged LG H2 18650 battery. Apparently the nichia version is around 3800 and xpl hi version is around 4300 It's


----------



## KY Joe (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Sorry I got excited and accidentally posted before I got finished. I have the V2 firmware and I purchased the light from mountain electronics. It has mode memory now thanks to TK. My favorite part of the V2 firmware is that when the battery has been disconnected and then reconnected the first click will bring you to the brightness level that uses 100% 7135 regulated level and 0% Fet. This allows me the option of greatly increasing the amount of run time due to the higher efficiency. Also when the light is ramping from moon up, the light blinks as it crosses the 100% 7135 level and when it hits full turbo it flashes again. I noticed that mountain has increased the base price to $40 but it is still a fantastic flashlight at a really bargain price. The xpl hi version of the flashlight will cost $18 more due to the increased cost of those emitters. For the price it is absolutely worth it and you will not regret purchasing one, I have 2 and I have two more in the mail headed my way. Richard had gotten an order of D4s in the first of the week and they were all sold in a matter of 2-3 hours. The nichia version was sold out in literally 40 minutes. The xpl hi in an hour and a half. I guess I am not the only one who loves this little beast of a light


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



KY Joe said:


> Sorry I got excited and accidentally posted before I got finished. I have the V2 firmware and I purchased the light from mountain electronics. It has mode memory now thanks to TK. My favorite part of the V2 firmware is that when the battery has been disconnected and then reconnected the first click will bring you to the brightness level that uses 100% 7135 regulated level and 0% Fet. This allows me the option of greatly increasing the amount of run time due to the higher efficiency. Also when the light is ramping from moon up, the light blinks as it crosses the 100% 7135 level and when it hits full turbo it flashes again. I noticed that mountain has increased the base price to $40 but it is still a fantastic flashlight at a really bargain price. The xpl hi version of the flashlight will cost $18 more due to the increased cost of those emitters. For the price it is absolutely worth it and you will not regret purchasing one, I have 2 and I have two more in the mail headed my way. Richard had gotten an order of D4s in the first of the week and they were all sold in a matter of 2-3 hours. The nichia version was sold out in literally 40 minutes. The xpl hi in an hour and a half. I guess I am not the only one who loves this little beast of a light


Hahah yeah. You're not the only one.

I have a black XPG2 one that I emitter swapped to 5A2 XPL HI. I also replaced the stock star with Richard's offset star where each emitter is rotated differently to produce much more even corona. Had to insert a spacer behind the new star since the stock star was so thick (2mm direct copper). I added Talon Grip tape to the 18650 battery tube for greatly improved grip.

I have 3 more in the mail. A grey from International Outdoors and a grey and green from Mountain Electronics. This is the ultimate pocket hot-rod light and I need more.


----------



## Keitho (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> Hahah yeah. You're not the only one.
> 
> This is the ultimate pocket hot-rod light and I need more.



HA! I just had to make a list for myself of all my flashlights just to keep me from buying more than three D4's!


----------



## TCY (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I asked Hank yesterday and got told that they are not planning to do a stock R9050 4000K 219C version. While the tint on my stock 219C is not exactly cool white it's definitely a lot cooler than the 219Bs on my M43 which is something I don't like. Everything else is basically 10/10 though. Hopefully Vinh can mod one of these for me in the future..


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



TCY said:


> I asked Hank yesterday and got told that they are not planning to do a stock R9050 4000K 219C version. While the tint on my stock 219C is not exactly cool white it's definitely a lot cooler than the 219Bs on my M43 which is something I don't like. Everything else is basically 10/10 though. Hopefully Vinh can mod one of these for me in the future..



The bezel is not glued. This light is very easy to emitter swap if you want something different.


----------



## TCY (Aug 3, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> The bezel is not glued. This light is very easy to emitter swap if you want something different.



Sadly I have zero soldering skills/experience nor the equipment needed:sigh:


----------



## emarkd (Aug 4, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



mattodio said:


> Been a while since I bought a light but this one definitely sounds like a winner. Does the gray body match the meteor? Would be nice if the two were exactly the same



Not sure if you ever got an answer to this or not, but no they're not the same. Both are nice finishes though.









KY Joe said:


> My favorite part of the V2 firmware is that when the battery has been disconnected and then reconnected the first click will bring you to the brightness level that uses 100% 7135 regulated level and 0% Fet. This allows me the option of greatly increasing the amount of run time due to the higher efficiency. Also when the light is ramping from moon up, the light blinks as it crosses the 100% 7135 level and when it hits full turbo it flashes again.



Glad to see this already mentioned, but I want to mention it again because its a genius addition to this sort of driver and UI. Just a quick loosen and tighten of the tailcap (cause anodized threads) and it "resets" the driver to its default state, which has 100% 7135 in memory. So now a single click turns on the light with 100% of the 7135 regulator and the FET completely off. A nice medium light output level, no PWM (not that I can see it on this light anyway - I can't. But it could be important for taking photos or something), very long runtimes and no heat to worry about. Some of you asking for a couple of "preset" options instead of the ramp have this option at least. Really really smart design by Toykeeper.


----------



## ven (Aug 4, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

My grey 219c is on the way and cant wait, actually excited about this little beast. Soon as i have had it and know i like it, will have an xp-g2 and xpl HI flavour to. Maybe a green and black so i have all the flavours:naughty:


----------



## Tixx (Aug 4, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ven said:


> My grey 219c is on the way and cant wait, actually excited about this little beast. Soon as i have had it and know i like it, will have an xp-g2 and xpl HI flavour to. Maybe a green and black so i have all the flavours:naughty:



Yeah, I did XP-L in green, XP-G in black and 219c in grey. Just easy to keep track of which one is which.


----------



## ven (Aug 4, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Like it Tixx


----------



## staticx57 (Aug 4, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



TCY said:


> Sadly I have zero soldering skills/experience nor the equipment needed:sigh:



It really isn’t that hard and the equipment needed isn’t to bad either. I suggest learning, it’s quite fun and rewarding.


----------



## cclin (Aug 5, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I agreed above comments! The Feature-rich Driver/UI make D4 really shine. Infinite brightness ramp works better & easier than any Magnetic ring, 100% of the 7135 regulator & Tactical momentary are also very useful. I love the green one


----------



## KarstGhost (Aug 5, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Just got mine yesterday. 

It seems to blink when I go full turbo and drop in output. Like immediately, not after 25 seconds when I thought thermal reg was supposed to kick in.

I think this is preventing it from hitting 3000 L. Running brand new fully charged Efest batteries that I ordered with the light. Anybody else noticed this?


----------



## emarkd (Aug 5, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



KarstGhost said:


> Just got mine yesterday.
> 
> It seems to blink when I go full turbo and drop in output. Like immediately, not after 25 seconds when I thought thermal reg was supposed to kick in.
> 
> I think this is preventing it from hitting 3000 L. Running brand new fully charged Efest batteries that I ordered with the light. Anybody else noticed this?



The blink when it hits max is intentional. There's another blink in the ramp when it crosses from 7135-only into FET-powered territory. Those are there to let the user know where they are in the ramping sequence. As for thermal reg, well it depends on how hot it gets. 25 seconds is just an estimate. Time has nothing to do with it. If you're using the light in a very warm environment it'll step down a lot faster. Take it into the freezer and it'll stay bright longer. And also the emitter choice makes a difference. The Nichia emitters make more heat so they step down faster. There's a lot that goes into it, but bottom line this is a tiny light with massive power, so it gets very hot, very fast and can't really cool itself very quickly. It'll never maintain max for very long at all.


----------



## KarstGhost (Aug 5, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Thank you for the quick response emarkd. It just kind of caught me off guard. Mine is the XPG2 version. I like it a lot overall.


----------



## Esko (Aug 5, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Esko said:


> So, this is like a fiery little brother of Meteor. Any news about the big brother that was supposed to be released more than half a year ago? I wonder if the challenges turned out to be too difficult to solve and project got cancelled.





cclin said:


> As far as I know, M44 (13500lm) project aborted, in real world usage with the naked eye at ~5000 lumens increase output is insignificant. not worth for the time & money.
> M4hi project retains, 8000lm, 1,1000,000 CD, not sure it will change in the future.



I recalled that the target was a lot more than 10000lm and more than 1000000cd and when announced some 9-10 moths ago, Hank was afraid that it couldn't be released before Christmas (2016).

So... He had 2 projects? And the thrower project is still alive?


----------



## TCY (Aug 6, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Vinh has ordered a D4 as a testing sample. I'll definitely grab a D4vn if that ever becomes a thing:twothumbs


----------



## Keitho (Aug 6, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



TCY said:


> Vinh has ordered a D4 as a testing sample. I'll definitely grab a D4vn if that ever becomes a thing:twothumbs


That will be very interesting...the stock D4 already has a great driver, high output, and a bunch of LED choices. He might be able to slightly improve heat sinking and give another few LED choices, and pot the driver, but his considerable skill and creativity might result in only a marginal improvement.


----------



## TCY (Aug 6, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Keitho said:


> That will be very interesting...the stock D4 already has a great driver, high output, and a bunch of LED choices. He might be able to slightly improve heat sinking and give another few LED choices, and pot the driver, but his considerable skill and creativity might result in only a marginal improvement.



Output and driver wise I'm happy with the stock one, I just hope Vinh would offer a R9050 4000K 219c flavour so I can grab one without having to buy a soldering iron and learn how to solder for just one light.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Aug 6, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Keitho said:


> That will be very interesting...the stock D4 already has a great driver, high output, and a bunch of LED choices. He might be able to slightly improve heat sinking and give another few LED choices, and pot the driver, but his considerable skill and creativity might result in only a marginal improvement.



Improving the heatsinking might prove difficult. The light already comes with a 4.5 mm thick shelf under the star. I'm not sure how much room is between the shelf and the driver though. Perhaps there is enough room for small slug. If Vinh wants to improve this light my suggestions would be:
* new LED choices including high-CRI 219C
* Firmware tweeks. Perhaps add some more presets, such as triple-click to 40% or something like that. In stock form, the UI is outstanding. However, it is also open-source.... meaning it's quite tweekable.
* Replace stock star with Richard's offset star. In the stock star, All the LEDs are mounted at the same angle. This creates a square-shaped corona with some LEDs. Richard of Mountain Electronics sells a compatible quad star in which each emitter is rotated 11.5 degrees with all emitters at different angles. His star completely eliminates the square corona and gives a smooth circular beam pattern.


----------



## emarkd (Aug 6, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> * Replace stock star with Richard's offset star. In the stock star, All the LEDs are mounted at the same angle. This creates a square-shaped corona with some LEDs. Richard of Mountain Electronics sells a compatible quad star in which each emitter is rotated 11.5 degrees with all emitters at different angles. His star completely eliminates the square corona and gives a smooth circular beam pattern.



Doable, but Richard's mcpcb is thinner than the stock noctigon board, so you'd need a spacer.


----------



## yarney05 (Aug 6, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



cclin said:


> I agreed above comments! The Feature-rich Driver/UI make D4 really shine. Infinite brightness ramp works better & easier than any Magnetic ring, 100% of the 7135 regulator & Tactical momentary are also very useful. I love the green one



What clip are you using in this photo?


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Aug 6, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



emarkd said:


> Doable, but Richard's mcpcb is thinner than the stock noctigon board, so you'd need a spacer.


 Agreed. But making a spacer out of sheet copper isn't hard. I've already done it with three D4s.


----------



## cclin (Aug 7, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Esko said:


> I recalled that the target was a lot more than 10000lm and more than 1000000cd and when announced some 9-10 moths ago, Hank was afraid that it couldn't be released before Christmas (2016).
> 
> So... He had 2 projects? And the thrower project is still alive?


I think we talk the same project, all the information just estimate/evaluate # on the paper. I read it from Chinese Noctigon Meteor discuss group.



yarney05 said:


> What clip are you using in this photo?


Sorry, I have no ideal. I have a whole lot of flashlight parts in the drawer, I can't remember what & where this pocket clip came from???


----------



## moshow9 (Aug 7, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Little. Yellow. Different.





Whoops, wrong thread. This is more like it.


----------



## xdayv (Aug 7, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

@moshow9 - you are quick to lego it... nice combo.


----------



## don.gwapo (Aug 7, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Got my green xpl-hi 6500k today. This thing got toasty really fast but the light it emits on turbo is astounding. Mine have memory mode which is a plus. It outshine my Zebralight S6330 which is my brightest light but not anymore. Love it.


----------



## TCY (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I recommended the D4 to a friend of mine who happens to be a flashaholic too. He looks at those photos on intl-outdoor and says: "Geez that thread is bad, I'm gonna pass."

He is so going to regret that decision.


----------



## ven (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Today was a good day....not only did I get another sportac triple nichia in the post, a ZL sc63w but a D4 219c as well. What can I say, luckily I had a vtc6 at hand in work to try out the D4. Nice perfect white beam, perfect smooth ramping up/down. Hot.......wow crazy hot in maybe 15s or so to step down/ramp down to manage the heat. Amazing how hot and how fast it controlled the heat. The firmware is special for sure . The light itself is very nice , nice ano/design but slippy feel due to the lack of knurling. Flip side it feels smooth/nice in hand and hard to put down. 

Optics are perfect clear, body/ano of a high quality that makes the price of his light a must have. Will post a few pics later as my phone and photobucket have fell out ......


----------



## TCY (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Congrats on the perfect tint. My D4 goes a bit blue/purplish when going past the 100% 7135 point, but everything else I'm very happy about. Definitely a must have for flashaholics.


----------



## ven (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Thank you TCY, been playing around with it in work, my vtc6 cell when popped on the charger showed 3.6v....................did not take long!


----------



## xdayv (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

That's unfair Ven... you gotta play 2. Oh well, 2 is one, 1 is none haha. How's the heat at max?


----------



## ven (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



xdayv said:


> That's unfair Ven... you gotta play 2. Oh well, 2 is one, 1 is none haha. How's the heat at max?



Crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are differences in the xpl HI/xp-g2 and 219c...............219c running the hottest the quickest. Maybe 15s +or - 5s depending on if your indoor or out on a cool night. However it manages heat amazingly, never experienced such trick firmware to control the crazy heat. After 15s-20s or so, steps/ramps down a bit, still toasty so it steps down again and ramps back some more. I witnessed around 4 or 5 step downs/ramps within a minute or so. What i could only presume with no meter, anywhere between 300 and 600lm ish(pure guess here). Any small light will have to step down from say 1000lm................just has to as it will get too hot. This manages the heat spot on. What i like with the UI is simply press hold for moon, keep hold and it will ramp from less than 1lm to 3800lm in 2.5s............smooooooothly. 

I will be getting another 1 or 2 for sure, just wanted to make sure the light was worth it and shipping was fine. If you want a light similar in size to the compact ZL's, but with 4x the output....................can be used for EDC and/or just fun! Its a must for $40, in honesty, if it was $80 i would say the same. 

If heat is a big issue, then xp-g2 maybe a better option with 30s of run time  Me , i dont care about 15s or 30s, i care about colour temp/tint first. So the 219c was my 1st choice, simple as that. 

In other words Dave, if your considering................just get one, you wont regret it.


----------



## torchsarecool (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I must get this light. XPG2 4000K to Match my meteor Sounds good, though i may try nichia one more time (i wasnt sold on the last one) Decisions decisions...


----------



## ven (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



torchsarecool said:


> I must get this light. XPG2 4000K to Match my meteor Sounds good, though i may try nichia one more time (i wasnt sold on the last one) Decisions decisions...




You must:naughty: the xpl HI should be a nice choice to, tbh i dont think you could go wrong with any of them............Turbo is short lived in seconds, so just pick your favourite flavor as you will see more 1000lm and less than above generally(unless your flashlight use is 15s blasts).


----------



## drummer132132 (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Ven, or anyone else, which version would be the least amount of heat generated? Xpl hi?


----------



## torchsarecool (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Xpl is lowest heat, then XPG2, then 219c


----------



## ven (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



drummer132132 said:


> Ven, or anyone else, which version would be the least amount of heat generated? Xpl hi?




I think its pretty close, but the xp-g2 may run the coolest out of the 3. tbh it may be just me, but buying over the coolest is pointless. Which ever you get, it is going to get super toasty fast and i bet only 10-20s separates them all. None will get near a minute afaik on turbo, sure 30s is about the max time at full output. Hence why i went 219c 1st, however the 4000k xpg2 will be very nice for that warmer tone...........xpl HI 5000k would be nice to.


----------



## ven (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

xpl HI it is then, just thought at 4000+ lumens it would be hotter than the xp-g2. 
So xpl HI, xp-g2 then 219c hot to ...............erm hotter :laughing:


----------



## drummer132132 (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Probably go with xpl hi version at some point. Thank you both for the info.


----------



## TCY (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

The D4's official taobao store says that 219C>XP-L HI>XP-G2 in terms of heat. BLF's discusstion thread yields the same conclusion:thumbsup:


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 8, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



TCY said:


> The D4's official taobao store says that 219C>XP-L HI>XP-G2 in terms of heat. BLF's discusstion thread yields the same conclusion:thumbsup:



Yes, xpg2 running the "coolest". Or Ummmmmm least hot...


----------



## torchsarecool (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Oh ok....i found different info on blf suggesting otherwise. At first id have thought XPG2 was coolest to so ill go along with that. Either way its a hand warmer.


----------



## ven (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Up stairs i was(as you do playing around) counted 12s before the 1st step down this time...........OUCH toasty! then watched it step/ramp down a few more times. This light is the hot rod of all hot rods! Put the m43vn(11k lumnes) to shame in the heat stakes........
Not knowing what actual lumens it settled on, i got out a few lights to roughly compare brightness. I would hazard a guess around 300lm or so as it was noticeably brighter than my sportac 219c on 20%.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ven said:


> Up stairs i was(as you do playing around) counted 12s before the 1st step down this time...........OUCH toasty! then watched it step/ramp down a few more times. This light is the hot rod of all hot rods! Put the m43vn(11k lumnes) to shame in the heat stakes........
> Not knowing what actual lumens it settled on, i got out a few lights to roughly compare brightness. I would hazard a guess around 300lm or so as it was noticeably brighter than my sportac 219c on 20%.



*Stepdown*
The step down is very aggressive. This is good for protecting you from heat, but perhaps a bit too aggressive when it comes to how low it goes. One reviewer on BLF tested it and after 30 seconds on VTC6 it had stepped down to something like 300 lumens, but on an Aspire 18350 it had only stepped down to 1400 lumens. Basically the extra heat from the 18650 caused the temp sensor to kick in faster and overdo it.

On the upside, due to the ramping it's very easy to ramp back up if the temp sensor brought output down too far. My guess is the light can probably do 1500 lumens sustained for an extended period of time if you handhold it, and perhaps do not start at max turbo.

*Slippery grip*
Do you carry this light in a pocket, but hate the lack of knurling? ... simple solution is to add something to improve the grip. I installed Talon Grip Tape from Amazon on mine. Adds very little bulk and turns a slippery light into my grippiest. Feels great in the hand too. I highly recommend it for this light.


----------



## Connor (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> My guess is the light can probably do 1500 lumens sustained for an extended period of time if you handhold it, and perhaps do not start at max turbo.



Even Zebralight SC600fD III+ (more mass, more efficient driver+LED) can't do 1500 lumens handheld, they level out at about 600ish lumens.


----------



## ven (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> *Stepdown*
> The step down is very aggressive. This is good for protecting you from heat, but perhaps a bit too aggressive when it comes to how low it goes. One reviewer on BLF tested it and after 30 seconds on VTC6 it had stepped down to something like 300 lumens, but on an Aspire 18350 it had only stepped down to 1400 lumens. Basically the extra heat from the 18650 caused the temp sensor to kick in faster and overdo it.
> 
> On the upside, due to the ramping it's very easy to ramp back up if the temp sensor brought output down too far. My guess is the light can probably do 1500 lumens sustained for an extended period of time if you handhold it, and perhaps do not start at max turbo.
> ...




Its been in pocket at work and at home when carried yes, if i had a clip option but tapped for it............would be a winner(not into clip on clips at all). Thats a great idea with grip tape, it is a slipy feel/body...........but still nice to hold in hand.

Yes step down is aggressive but the head heat is still almost too much to bare (fine holding body but i like to get a better idea of the heat before i trust the step downs). Now even with the aggressive step downs, it is still toasty before it settles to a lower output and brings the temp under more control. 

Cell used will sure make a difference, i have tried a vtc6 and 30Q only, if I used a 10a cell.....................probably hold out a bit longer. I have found though with even larger 18650 lights, 1000lm is too much to ask after 2 or 3mins, even 600lm is too much after 10m or so. Even a HDS 200lm gets quite warm after 10 + mins.

But i accepted before i got the D4 its not about running it for any length of time at full output, more for super short blasts and use the lower ouputs for actual general uses. I have said before, i can pretty much live with 200lm or less(most uses at work are around 150 as one example). At home, at night 20 or 30lm will do...............more is always fun though

Off to check some grip tape! cheers


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Here are some images of a black and a grey D4 with Talon Grip tape installed on the 18650 battery tube:


----------



## ven (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Thanks for the pics, that actually looks really good! more importantly with an actual use. I only have the 18650 tube, for two reasons really. Just not enough in the tank with an 18350(even the aspire.......heck it does not take long to eat through an 18650!) ,also the 18650 is compact enough for me with this light. I have some 18500's sat around which may tempt me to try one of those bodies(don't have an 18500 light). Iirc they are just 1000mah......for the sake of 15mm or so , I can have 3 times the run time(roughly).


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> Here are some images of a black and a grey D4 with Talon Grip tape installed on the 18650 battery tube:



+1 on the Talon Grips. I have a couple of lights with it installed and will likely put some on this hot rod when it comes in the mail too.


----------



## gunga (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I need to get some but the price is insane in Canada for talon grip (at least on Amazon).


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



gunga said:


> I need to get some but the price is insane in Canada for talon grip (at least on Amazon).


Here in the U.S. it cost me $11 plus tax for a 5" by 7" sheet ... enough tape to put grips on a probably a dozen D4s. Free shipping with prime.


----------



## Keitho (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Waiting for it to cool off, had to take a picture...
D4 lego https://imgur.com/gallery/0UbtR


----------



## gunga (Aug 9, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Fireclaw18 said:


> Here in the U.S. it cost me $11 plus tax for a 5" by 7" sheet ... enough tape to put grips on a probably a dozen D4s. Free shipping with prime.



I think a sheet would cost me $46 and tax.


----------



## DIPSTIX (Aug 13, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Would there be any benefit for performing a spring bypass at the MCPCB and tailcap?


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 13, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



DIPSTIX said:


> Would there be any benefit for performing a spring bypass at the MCPCB and tailcap?



I don't think this puppy can be driven any harder than it is. The FET driver is pulling everything the battery can give it as I understand.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Aug 14, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



DIPSTIX said:


> Would there be any benefit for performing a spring bypass at the MCPCB and tailcap?


Not really. The light already uses some very high quality low-resistance springs. Same springs as on the Noctigon M43 I think. Also there isn't a lot of extra room in the battery compartment. The springs squish almost flat, making a spring bypass iffy. Finally, the light already gets hot very fast. Even if a spring bypass were to increase current all it would do is make the light heat up even faster while providing no noticeable increase to output.


----------



## rizky_p (Aug 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

The Green is Nice. Mine is Nichia but i prefer the 219b in S41 with it's rosy tint.


----------



## ven (Aug 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Damn that green looks good Re-219 flavours, i have quite a few 219b's from 4000k and I to love the slight rosy tint. I do like this 219c 5000k , on my sample its a pure white and colours look accurate to my eyes. Its nice to have a few choices, kind of break up the LED's,colour temps and tints............just keeps things fresh imo.

Little pic of little lights i took ready for tonight(nothing special actually happening, just my lights to use and play with)




Its crazy how fast it sups mah from the poor 30Q's..........i have another 30Q and vtc5 ready to swap out. This can be minutes of use...............Defo need a spare cell or 2 ready


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ven said:


> Damn that green looks good Re-219 flavours, i have quite a few 219b's from 4000k and I to love the slight rosy tint. I do like this 219c 5000k , on my sample its a pure white and colours look accurate to my eyes. Its nice to have a few choices, kind of break up the LED's,colour temps and tints............just keeps things fresh imo.
> 
> Little pic of little lights i took ready for tonight(nothing special actually happening, just my lights to use and play with)
> 
> ...



Killer round up of lights you got there! Very nice.


----------



## ven (Aug 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Thank you


----------



## Tixx (Aug 21, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

123...


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 21, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Loving mine. Had to increase the temperature setting as I like to run my lights between 600 to 1000 lumens and it was dropping below 600 lumens after a short time of use.


----------



## Keitho (Aug 21, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I like to run my lights around 600 degrees (F, not C-- I'm not crazy!) 

Seriously, I love my Nichia version, and I love it even more with a slightly more floody optic I just got from mtn electronics.


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 21, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Keitho said:


> I like to run my lights around 600 degrees (F, not C-- I'm not crazy!)
> 
> Seriously, I love my Nichia version, and I love it even more with a slightly more floody optic I just got from mtn electronics.



Did that optic smooth out the squarish beam pattern?


----------



## Keitho (Aug 21, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Yep, it's a smooth wall of very nice Nichia light, with no evidence of pointy bits.


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 21, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Ok. That's what I want. Thanks!


----------



## ven (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Nice triple tixx

Where are you guys looking, 219c here, i was hedgehog hunting last night and just a wall of light, could not see any artifacts at all. Hot spot pretty much blended into the spill at 10ft or so. Before that a very soft hot spot at say 5ft, colours looked great and accurate. If i shine it above an object by around 4"(just tried it) then yes square and can just make out the optic legs. Obviously i would not use it like this though. Other optics also give artifacts close up, usually when almost up against something.


----------



## Keitho (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

You're correct ven, the only place you see beam artifacts is close up. I like the more diffuse optics to slightly smooth out the hot spot to Corona transition. I tend to prefer floody, especially when it is that bright.

I bet those hedgehogs were impressed with your little D4!


----------



## ven (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Could not find it again, rach was armed with a predator prov2.5 warm as well. Earlier the kids had found it and it went into long grass near the pond . They were waiting for it to come out for ages, then decided to check and it had moved. The kids made a right mess at the bottom of the garden building a home for it :laughing: 

Other than the frosted quad, all have artifacts close up. Luckily my uses are for more than a few inch away. Although I do check beams close up or against a wall , it's what's outiside that matters to me(or what I see in use which could also be inside). Frosted certainly soften the beam out, I like it a lot. But don't feel the need to convert my other quads. In fact I like them the way they are. 

Its amazing how fugly some beams are close up, but in use perfectly fine or unnoticeable for artifacts.


----------



## Tixx (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Thanks Ven!

There is also the XP-L issue where it makes pointies around the large hot spot. I guess the angle of the LEDs can be changed with this to correct: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_64&product_id=849


----------



## Haroldlutsen (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Thanks for all the useful and interesting information on this light, I just had to order a Nichia version what I am still confused is what battery and rating would be the best compromise to run this setup I have a hard time understanding what I need between High current vs Big reserve ? What are you all running in your lights.


----------



## Tixx (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Having had all D4 lights at 5000k or below, here is my tint preference

I’ve had every one of them and here is my list from best to worst according to my eyes and I’ve had multiples of them, not just one of each:

1) XP-G2 4000k
2) XP-G2 5000k
3) XP-L 5000k
4) Nichia 219c 5000k


----------



## Keitho (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I have my 18650 collection down to two flavors, one flat top for Zebralight compatibility, and one button top. INR18650MJ1 (green, button top, 10A): ~3200 mAh to 3V; and, NCR18650GA (red, flat top, 10A): ~3250 mAh to 3V. Vinh recommends the INR18650MJ1's for some of his high current lights, and Zebralight recommends the NCR18650GA's--that's good enough for the girls I go with. Both cells work well for me in the D4. I think mtn electronics has a list of 18650's broken down for "high capacity" and "high current" in the D4 listing, so I know there are lots of other options.


----------



## ven (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Haroldlutsen said:


> Thanks for all the useful and interesting information on this light, I just had to order a Nichia version what I am still confused is what battery and rating would be the best compromise to run this setup I have a hard time understanding what I need between High current vs Big reserve ? What are you all running in your lights.



I am running either sony vtc5/vtc6 and samsung 30q .


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ven said:


> I am running either sony vtc5/vtc6 and samsung 30q .



Same here. I am running vtc6, 30q, and ncr18650ga. I'm not finding a heck of a lot of difference between the 3.

Any of the above batteries would do just fine Haroldutsen.


----------



## ven (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Yes same here, tbh probably the GA would be better suited to keep a little more under control....................who knows, might get 20s run before step down instead of 15s :laughing: 

Been messing with the thermal timer, set it myself then tried the max(10+ clicks and hold, after 1st count and when flickers , release switch for max setting). Damn it gets even crazy hotter, especially after step down and double clicked for turbo....................OOOOOUUUUCCCCHHHH!!!!! The body almost got too hot to hold!!! Certainly have to be careful with this beast. The rubber switch was actually hot, as it steps down to maybe 500 ish, the heat takes a while to come under control. 

This makes the m43vn seem sensible, the x65vn now takes forever to get hot :laughing: (2 mins)


----------



## Haroldlutsen (Aug 22, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Thanks all for your suggestions much appreciated I'm gonna get me a few of them to try out


----------



## andreas0401 (Aug 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*
































animated










Andreas


----------



## noboneshotdog (Aug 25, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

^^^^^
Wow! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## ven (Aug 26, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Awesome pics Andreas, thanks for sharing


----------



## KG_Tuning (Aug 30, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Love this light, just ordered a 3rd one!

Made a quick vid of it up against the H2R & E14 II.


----------



## KG_Tuning (Sep 1, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

My 219C has arrived! Think I prefer the XP-L Hi at a push. I Can hold it longer, better throw without losing the flood effect and brighter!


----------



## ven (Sep 2, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Nice vid The olight would be my night time use for tired eyes i think, just easier on the eye with the more (slightly) warmer CT. I presume your 219c is set at the shipped thermal temp 45oC, mine is crazy hot at 30s!!!! But i have altered the temp, still not at the max 70oC. Left my IR temp gun in work, so will check temps next week and see what i get.


----------



## DogLeg (Sep 8, 2017)

That Emisar D4 Nichia 219C is one heck of a great $40 handwarmer. Just got mine and I love it.


----------



## mjgsxr (Sep 8, 2017)

Did a quick amp draw check on my D4 Nichia with a VTC5 cell. I got 24 amps with a fluke amp clamp.


----------



## ven (Sep 8, 2017)

A beast mjgsxr, just crazy, which we all need a bit of


----------



## noboneshotdog (Sep 8, 2017)

Bought this clip from Solarforce and a washer from Oveready. Had to dremel out the inside of the opening of the clip to fit over the tailcap threads. I also clipped and spread the washer to fit snuggly in the cap.

After taking the pic I noticed how sharp the ends of the washer looked and smoothed them out with the dremel.

This is the modded 4000K 219c hcri version.


----------



## KG_Tuning (Sep 12, 2017)

Got 3 buying no more! Got to say the XP-L 6500k is my fave, brightest, coolest operating and throwiest! 

Strangely all 3 lights have nearly same turn on lumens with an 18650 battery and the exact same with an 18350 battery. (on a cool night I can just about hit 5,000 lumens with a Sony VTC5A, obviously dropping towards 3,500 after just seconds) The only difference is that the lumens drop far quicker on the hotter operating D4's.


----------



## andreas0401 (Sep 13, 2017)




----------



## Keitho (Sep 20, 2017)

So I've seen in a few places people say "the D4 has PWM" in the same way one would say "the D4 has a venerial disease." I understand the potential impact if someone has a job inspecting ceiling fans or spinning jet engine blades, and I understand the impact to certain still photography and videography situations, and I know there will be fanboys of other devices. But I was wondering if anyone has actually detected the PWM as implemented on the D4 in a real world situation?

I'm not particularly sensitive to PWM myself, and my ears are certainly too old to detect faint 16 kHz whines, so I'm really asking a genuine question. Even at 1.4 lumens, I can't see it, but I'm curious to know what others see.


----------



## maukka (Sep 20, 2017)

The PWM on the D4 is not detectable by eye. Might be visible on video when shooting with very high shutter speeds.


----------



## derfyled (Sep 20, 2017)

I'm very sensitive to PWM and hate the strobe effect when moving a PWM light but the D4 is not at all a problem. If you really want, you cant see it but in real life usage, it's really not detectable.


----------



## eraursls1984 (Sep 20, 2017)

Keitho said:


> So I've seen in a few places people say "the D4 has PWM" in the same way one would say "the D4 has a venerial disease." I understand the potential impact if someone has a job inspecting ceiling fans or spinning jet engine blades, and I understand the impact to certain still photography and videography situations, and I know there will be fanboys of other devices. But I was wondering if anyone has actually detected the PWM as implemented on the D4 in a real world situation?
> 
> I'm not particularly sensitive to PWM myself, and my ears are certainly too old to detect faint 16 kHz whines, so I'm really asking a genuine question. Even at 1.4 lumens, I can't see it, but I'm curious to know what others see.


It's regulated to about 160 lumens, then it's PWM. I'd love it f it were regulated to about 500-600 lumens.


----------



## Agpp (Sep 20, 2017)

eraursls1984 said:


> It's regulated to about 160 lumens, then it's PWM. I'd love it f it were regulated to about 500-600 lumens.



No, it's PWM in all modes except for 350 mA (this is what you get when you remove power and start it) and turbo. It is regulated to about 160 lumens, but PWM is there.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Sep 20, 2017)

Agpp said:


> No, it's PWM in all modes except for 350 mA (this is what you get when you remove power and start it) and turbo. It is regulated to about 160 lumens, but PWM is there.


Yup. But the PWM is very high frequency and isn't detectable to the naked eye.

Compared to current control, High frequency PWM has the following differences:

* Better tint with less tint shift. Many LEDs tend to produce better tints when run at full power. With current control at low power they sometimes start to look green. Lights that use PWM maintain the same tint at all brightness settings and even at lower power settings the tint still looks good.

* The D4 has a single 7135 regulator chip for low modes and a FET for higher modes. As such, there might be tint shift when switching from the 7135 to the FET (happens around 130-160 lumens depending on LED choice). Below that setting all outputs will have one tint. Above that setting all outputs a slightly different tint.

* LEDs are more efficient when run at low power. Lights with current-control drivers are more efficient when run at less than maximum power. A light with a current-control driver such as a Zebralight, should have a longer runtime at the same lumens on pretty much every setting except the point where the 7135 chip is running at max (130-160 lumens). When run at max power, LED has the same efficiency regardless of which driver is used. However, because the D4 pulls far more amps than any Zebralight, it will have lower runtimes.


----------



## Agpp (Sep 21, 2017)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Yup. But the PWM is very high frequency and isn't detectable to the naked eye.
> 
> Compared to current control, High frequency PWM has the following differences:
> 
> ...



From the human-eye perspective there's no switching from 7135 to FET. 7135 is used in all modes except turbo, but as you ramp the light uses FET more and more. This means that tint shift is gradual. Personally, I can't see it and haven't seen a mention of a person who does.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Sep 21, 2017)

Agpp said:


> From the human-eye perspective there's no switching from 7135 to FET. 7135 is used in all modes except turbo, but as you ramp the light uses FET more and more. This means that tint shift is gradual. Personally, I can't see it and haven't seen a mention of a person who does.


That makes sense. And come to think of it I can't see the tint shift either since it is gradual.


----------



## TCY (Sep 21, 2017)

It seems like I'm particularly sensitive to tint shift? I can clearly detect my D4vn's tint shift from pinkish to more of a creamy white. The same goes with my other lights.


----------



## ven (Sep 21, 2017)

D1 5000k and D4 4000k







Heat wise with the D1..............no issue, gets warm fairly quick but nothing like the D4. Only ran for a few mins trying to wait for a step down............never noticed if it did! Great option for anyone wanting a pocket thrower.


----------



## TCY (Sep 21, 2017)

Got the D1 already? Grats. Throw wise how does it compare to other pocket throwers?


----------



## ven (Sep 21, 2017)

TCY said:


> Got the D1 already? Grats. Throw wise how does it compare to other pocket throwers?



Not had chance and wont be dark for another 4hrs or so.............

So far, the hot spot is quite large(say compared to a predator pro xp-g2). Most of my lights are flood bias as those are more useful to me. I dont have too many pocket throwers. 

Its bright and intense, spill is usable and the 5000k as expected is cool side of neutral. If you like some throw, pocket able ...............its a safe buy imho.


----------



## MiniLights (Sep 21, 2017)

I'm about to pull the trigger, will be my first 18650 light. Looking at the recommended batteries and I don't quite know what to make of it. I have read up on unprotected cells but don't quite know the ins and outs yet. Am I safe with anything recommended by MTN Electronics? What would be the performance differences between the higher and lower capacity cells? Will flat top need a spacer in this light? I am tempted to get some button and some flat tops because I eventually would like a ZL SC600 mkIII.

Thinking more is better, I am considering a couple Efest 3000mAh and a couple Sony VTC6's. Will these be too high of a discharge to use in other 18650 lights down the road?


----------



## ven (Sep 21, 2017)

Hey there, the D4 is awesome! vtc6 and vtc5a will be a good choice for this light. Yes Richard certainly knows his stuff at mtn electronics! Flat top are fine, high drain a must!


I would get at least 2 vtc6(or which you choose) for this light, you will be swapping them out pretty quick if you like the WOW factor.


----------



## ven (Sep 21, 2017)




----------



## Tixx (Sep 21, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Get the 18350 body as well. Pretty cool to have a light that small and bright!


----------



## eraursls1984 (Sep 21, 2017)

Ven, what LED's do you have in the stock one's? XP-G2 4000K in the black D4 and 5000K ? in the D1, and what about the other stock D4?


----------



## ven (Sep 21, 2017)

Black D4 is xp-g2 4000k, D4vn xp-g2 PDT so cool side of neutral, D4 219c 5000k and D1 xpl HI 5000k

Some pics for rough idea on beams
D4 219c 5000k



D4 xp-g2 4000k



D4vn PDT



D1 xp-l HI 5000k


----------



## ven (Sep 21, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



Tixx said:


> Get the 18350 body as well. Pretty cool to have a light that small and bright!




Reason i never got the 18350 and 18500(that was close as i have some spare 18500 cells) but for my uses no point. The 18500 are 1000mah=pretty *beep* considering nearly as long as 18650 so pointless. The 18350 has been improved with aspire, but not keen on the look/form and it can eat through an 18650 fast enough! . So if i change my mind, 18350 would be the choice, but for now happy with 18650 as its also a little more of a comfy form in my hand.


----------



## MiniLights (Sep 21, 2017)

ven said:


> Hey there, the D4 is awesome! vtc6 and vtc5a will be a good choice for this light. Yes Richard certainly knows his stuff at mtn electronics! Flat top are fine, high drain a must!
> 
> 
> I would get at least 2 vtc6(or which you choose) for this light, you will be swapping them out pretty quick if you like the WOW factor.



Thanks for the reply. Sony cells were out of stock so I went with a couple Efest to get the ball rolling. These cells are pricy!

I'm definitely a wow factor guy, so more cells will be on the way eventually.


----------



## archimedes (Sep 21, 2017)

Hey ven, that D1 reflector looks quite shiny 

Any chance you could post up a side-by-side photo with something like a stock 6P ? Or maybe an MD2 ?


----------



## blah9 (Sep 21, 2017)

Nice pictures, ven!

Awesome info in this thread. I just ordered a modded D4 from Vinh last night so now get to just play the waiting game haha.


----------



## ven (Sep 22, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Hey ven, that D1 reflector looks quite shiny
> 
> Any chance you could post up a side-by-side photo with something like a stock 6P ? Or maybe an MD2 ?




No probs, just read the post now but in work, will do it this afternoon(maybe 7hrs from now) for you.


----------



## archimedes (Sep 22, 2017)

Any time is great, cheers


----------



## ven (Sep 22, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Any time is great, cheers




If you need any specific just shout, here are a few







Significant size difference /advantage against a p60 drop in, throw in an xpl HI and drive it hard...........respectable pocket thrower.


----------



## archimedes (Sep 22, 2017)

Thanks ... great photos !

First new torch in a while which seems tempting ....


----------



## ven (Sep 22, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Thanks ... great photos !
> 
> First new torch in a while which seems tempting ....



Welcome, if you need any others just shout

For $40 you can not go wrong imo, along with the D4 , these maybe the best value lights available! You will love the UI if not experienced it, the ramping and easy access to turbo etc. Ability to set the thermal setting, battery check etc etc. The UI is really a work of art in itself. There are no short cuts with the light, not like you usually get with cheaper brands. Springs, ALPS switch, all of high quality........even compared to higher priced lights. If you like throw, like compact...............its a must.


----------



## Agpp (Sep 22, 2017)

ven said:


> Welcome, if you need any others just shout
> 
> For $40 you can not go wrong imo, along with the D4 , these maybe the best value lights available! You will love the UI if not experienced it, the ramping and easy access to turbo etc. Ability to set the thermal setting, battery check etc etc. The UI is really a work of art in itself. There are no short cuts with the light, not like you usually get with cheaper brands. Springs, ALPS switch, all of high quality........even compared to higher priced lights. If you like throw, like compact...............its a must.


I'd consider FW3A a better deal. Though I went with D4 and I love it.


----------



## ven (Sep 22, 2017)

Agpp said:


> I'd consider FW3A a better deal. Though I went with D4 and I love it.



Its not available to buy yet though, in fact it wont even be this year and on top of that, not owning i cant say if it is or not. I am on the list for one, however i am not a fan of the xp-g3 or at least the ones i have. But for $30(sometime next year) it may be the best value light (subjective anyway).


----------



## hatman (Sep 22, 2017)

The D4 eats 18650s on high. I can't imagine relying on a smaller battery.


----------



## Ruso (Sep 22, 2017)

hatman said:


> The D4 eats 18650s on high. I can't imagine relying on a smaller battery.



What is the runtime of D4 and D1 in different modes, is this info available?


----------



## ven (Sep 22, 2017)

D4 on repeated 100% use(allowing for some cooling) will be single figures(mins) to get into mid 3's voltage. You defo need at least 1(better to have a couple) 18650 cells to swap. D1 is far more frugal(did i just use that word) with around 1/3 less output and 1 led not 4. 
Trouble is(or not as its great) the UI ramps, so you can select pretty much 150 levels, run time is hard to put a figure on. But 4000lm from a single high drain eats mah. Use the 140lm mode(lock out, lock in and starts at this level). You will get better than average run time compared to most 18650 fed lights. 
Its only ferocious on mah due to the crazy ask of the cell. It can be a Prius or Lamborghini, its up to your choice on how to use it


----------



## RollerBoySE (Sep 22, 2017)

The D4 is simply one of the must haves of 2017.


----------



## MiniLights (Sep 22, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> The D4 is simply one of the must haves of 2017.




Evidently! I ordered mine yesterday, Green S4 2B, partly because that was the last non upcharge options left. Checking back today they only have the XP-L Hi 1A in black or green.

Seeing those softer tints is really intriguing. Might have to order a second one when they are available again.


----------



## Tixx (Sep 22, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> The D4 is simply one of the must haves of 2017.


Yes, for $40, it's dollar for dollar one of, if not the coolest lights out this year.


----------



## ven (Sep 22, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> The D4 is simply one of the must haves of 2017.




+1


Tixx said:


> Yes, for $40, it's dollar for dollar one of, if not these coolest lights out this year.




Yep another +1

Would go as far as saying, if your reading this(means you are on CPF as a member or searching as you have an interest in flashlights one way or another) , your mad if you dont have one or on order


----------



## Agpp (Sep 22, 2017)

hatman said:


> The D4 eats 18650s on high. I can't imagine relying on a smaller battery.


Runs for weeks in my backpack. Ordered on the first day, haven't recharged until I got 18350 several days ago. But I use mostly 350 mA mode.


----------



## P1X4R (Sep 25, 2017)

I just received the D1 at work. I brought in a couple of 30Qs. wow, this is a fun light! The UI is pretty neat. Now I'm temped to get a D4.


----------



## ven (Sep 25, 2017)

P1X4R said:


> I just received the D1 at work. I brought in a couple of 30Qs. wow, this is a fun light! The UI is pretty neat. Now I'm temped to get a D4.




They complement each other well


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 25, 2017)

A couple questions I'm hoping folks have the answer to. Thanks in advance:

1.) The ramping levels range all the way from minimum to maximum level and there is no gap between the maximum ramping level and turbo, correct?

2.) Is it possible to program the maximum output level? I suspect I'm not the only potential user who would prefer a more consistent, even though lower level of output (even 1500 lumens is still outstanding output for a pocket light with Nichia's), including instantly selectable by double-clicking with longer runtimes before stepping down.

I suppose just using a lower drain battery will sort of accomplish this goal, but at some point, it seems to me the strategy becomes a tradeoff between the thermal regulation causing declining output, and the battery voltage sag causing declining output.

3.) Has anybody tried partially diffusing any portion of the optic to see if it improves the beam profile?

4.) What is the actual stock N219C emitter tint and CRI? Mountain Electronics says 5000K, 80 CRI, and International Outdoors says 5000K, 90 CRI.


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 25, 2017)

The D4 should get "Flashlight of the Year" award. I cannot find anything bad to say about it. I have two of them. They have bumped all my other EDC lights out of my pockets.


----------



## TCY (Sep 25, 2017)

1: correct.
2: The UI's designer, Toykeeper, is working on it, but AFAIK it is not available on current gen firmware.
3: Nope, but putting a DC fix or some sort would smooth out the beam profile.
4. 5000K and 83 CRI, I got this info from Hank Wang personally. Intl outdoors might get a bunch of nicer 219Cs but very unlikely.


----------



## RollerBoySE (Sep 25, 2017)

TCY said:


> 4. 5000K and 83 CRI, I got this info from Hank Wang personally. Intl outdoors might get a bunch of nicer 219Cs but very unlikely.



It is now available with 5000K 90+CRI from Intl-outdoor (Hank).


----------



## TCY (Sep 25, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> It is now available with 5000K 90+CRI from Intl-outdoor (Hank).



Gosh darn it, I might have to buy that one too...


----------



## ven (Sep 26, 2017)

Damn , well spotted!! From the 25th Sep now 90 CRI. Not actually too sure how much difference around 10 CRI willl make from the 219c 5000k, might have to find out though! 

Would be cool for the 219c 4000k to be added also.


----------



## eraursls1984 (Sep 26, 2017)

ven said:


> Damn , well spotted!! From the 25th Sep now 90 CRI. Not actually too sure how much difference around 10 CRI willl make from the 219c 5000k, might have to find out though!
> 
> Would be cool for the 219c 4000k to be added also.


And 4000K XP-L HI, both for the D4 and D1.


----------



## ven (Sep 26, 2017)

Love the 4000k xpl HI!!!! Geeez that would be awesome.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 26, 2017)

TCY said:


> 1: correct.
> 2: The UI's designer, Toykeeper, is working on it, but AFAIK it is not available on current gen firmware.
> 3: Nope, but putting a DC fix or some sort would smooth out the beam profile.
> 4. 5000K and 83 CRI, I got this info from Hank Wang personally. Intl outdoors might get a bunch of nicer 219Cs but very unlikely.



Thanks! I've browsed a bit of Toykeeper's thread over on BLF, but there's a huge amount of info to sort through there. I appreciate you condensing it down for me.

I said when you mentioned the D4 over in the SC600w IV Plus thread this light isn't really what I'm looking for. However, the more I look at it, the more it looks good enough for my main criteria, the more the interface appeals to me, and the more irresistible the price appears.

I'm not at all one to chase monster outputs, but I would make occasional use of more power (and runtime) than what my current AA lights produce, and the UI on the D4 sounds like it's versatile enough.

So now I'm debating with myself whether I want the 5000K N219C stock light, since it turns out it is available in 90 CRI, or the 4000K D4Vn. I normally prefer warmer, but there's times when I also think a high CRI daylight tint would be ideal for the situation.


----------



## staticx57 (Sep 26, 2017)

FYI, the firmware is by Tom E and not Toykeeper. It is called NarsilM


----------



## noboneshotdog (Sep 26, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> Thanks! I've browsed a bit of Toykeeper's thread over on BLF, but there's a huge amount of info to sort through there. I appreciate you condensing it down for me.
> 
> I said when you mentioned the D4 over in the SC600w IV Plus thread this light isn't really what I'm looking for. However, the more I look at it, the more it looks good enough for my main criteria, the more the interface appeals to me, and the more irresistible the price appears.
> 
> ...



The 4000K high CRI is awesome! It's more neutral than warm. Superb!


----------



## RollerBoySE (Sep 26, 2017)

staticx57 said:


> FYI, the firmware is by Tom E and not Toykeeper. It is called NarsilM



True, but she did enhance it quite a bit upon Hank’s (maker of the light) request.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 26, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> True, but she did enhance it quite a bit upon Hank’s (maker of the light) request.



I just read the last ~2 weeks worth of Toykeeper's thread, and it sounds to me like Tom E wrote v1, and Toykeeper modified it to v2 with improved thermal control. She said she's working on v3 as TCY indicated, likely with a programmable max setting, but has set that project aside for the moment.

Oh, and the 5000k, 90 CRI apparently just happened to become available the same day I asked about it.

For the moment, I'm telling myself to hold off until more information about a timeline for UI v3 becomes available.


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 26, 2017)

With the ramping UI, the max setting is up to you! Just remove your thumb from the switch. Another reason I love this UI.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 26, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> With the ramping UI, the max setting is up to you! Just remove your thumb from the switch. Another reason I love this UI.



That gets partially at what I'm hoping for, but two more desired benefits would be addressed if Toykeeper's UI v3 is implemented:

1) You have a consistent max level below the peak achievable so you can have a better rough idea how hot the light will get, how long it will be before thermal protection kicks in, and how far the output will fall before it stabilizes.

2) You can get direct access to that level by double clicking.

If there was no hope of a programmable maximum being implemented, that's fine. It would not spoil my interest. Knowing that work has started on the feature, however, I'd like to wait and see if it comes to fruition.


----------



## Agpp (Sep 27, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> True, but she did enhance it quite a bit upon Hank’s (maker of the light) request.



Not true, these are independent branches.
TomE wrote Narsil.
Starting from that, he wrote D4 UI, with many changes for Hank.
Then he wrote NarsilM on the basis of Narsil.

So these projects were started by the same developer and they have a common ancestor. But they are not the same, UI is different, thermal control is different, D4 is 2-channel only, there are likely smaller differences too.


----------



## RollerBoySE (Sep 27, 2017)

Agpp said:


> Not true, these are independent branches.
> TomE wrote Narsil.
> Starting from that, he wrote D4 UI, with many changes for Hank.
> Then he wrote NarsilM on the basis of Narsil.
> ...



I’m not denying that TomE (who’s a gifted developer) wrote Narsil and the V1 code for D4. But ToyKeeper did enhance the V1 code for D4 into V2, with for example better heat management.


----------



## Agpp (Sep 27, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> I’m not denying that TomE (who’s a gifted developer) wrote Narsil and the V1 code for D4. But ToyKeeper did enhance the V1 code for D4 into V2, with for example better heat management.


Indeed.


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 27, 2017)

I need to read through Narsil thread on BLF because I am thrilled with the ramping concept.


----------



## totobel (Sep 27, 2017)

Im interested by the xpl hi neutral version.
Could anyone explain me why there is so much heat and such a quick stepdown when the tn40 has the same 4xxpkhi and seems to be running a long time without stepdown.
Just because of the size ?

Btw the guys here seems to say the xpl hi is the coolest
Whats the lastest status on that ?
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55306


----------



## ven (Sep 27, 2017)

Size yes, the D4 is pretty tiny, especially for 4300lm! There is just not enough mass and surface area to soak up and dissipate that kind of output. Put things in perspective, the tk75 2900lm version is a lot larger, yet this had a timed step down at 15m(the 2600lm at 20m). 

The way it handles heat, steps down is very impressive...........You can pretty much run it for long duration's around 600lm level(again impressive for its size).


----------



## totobel (Sep 27, 2017)

> I'm not at all one to chase monster outputs, but I would make occasional use of more power (and runtime) than what my current AA lights produce, and the UI on the D4 sounds like it's versatile enough.


My favourite EDC remains the tn4a hi, which has the best comprimise size/flood/throw in my eyes.
The D4 i'd use it for fun, wow effect and die 
(Tn40 sure does that but its only 7 times larger hehehe)

I agree that the 4000k neutral is just the only one which doesnt fake the real colours of plants and animals.


----------



## totobel (Sep 27, 2017)

> The way it handles heat, steps down is very impressive...........You can pretty much run it for long duration's around 600lm level(again impressive for its size).


I'm not sure I agree... thrunite has several single 18650 which can do 1k lumens without stress. Under 1k lumens its not that impressive... now at 4k lumens its a diff story...


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 27, 2017)

In the case of heat, size matters.


----------



## ven (Sep 27, 2017)

totobel said:


> I'm not sure I agree... thrunite has several single 18650 which can do 1k lumens without stress. Under 1k lumens its not that impressive... now at 4k lumens its a diff story...



Your going off 1000lm (LED lumens if manufacturer claims are even close) and it does not sustain 1000lms for say 1hr. To put another way, if the thrunite 18650 can hold X amount, the D4 can also. The D4 is far more advanced, it will also get a lot hotter than the thrunite and still put out a very usable amount of light.

Not many(not any as far as i am aware) 18650 lights that can hold a solid 1000lm for a long duration............physics gets in the way.


----------



## blah9 (Sep 27, 2017)

That's exactly right. The manufacturers claim 1000 lumens for an hour or whatever but in reality the lights have to step down due to temperature issues.


----------



## ven (Sep 27, 2017)

blah9 said:


> That's exactly right. The manufacturers claim 1000 lumens for an hour or whatever but in reality the lights have to step down due to temperature issues.



Yes and if direct drive they are getting dimmer(although not easy to tell by eye). The pd35 which is similar in size to the thrunite hits 1000lm ish, but still steps down to 600lm then further still iirc. The difference from 1000lm down to 600lm for example , to the eye is only small. Even 300lm will get a single 18650 light quite warm over time. 

The D4 is quite an amazing little light, not just in output, not just with UI and form. Its the package, Hank certainly hit a home run with his new little lights


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 27, 2017)

totobel said:


> Im interested by the xpl hi neutral version.
> Could anyone explain me why there is so much heat and such a quick stepdown when the tn40 has the same 4xxpkhi and seems to be running a long time without stepdown.
> Just because of the size ?
> 
> ...



Yep, size and mass. The TN40 weighs almost 2 pounds and has quite a bit of surface area. The D4 weighs 2.5 ounces. The mass means a slower temperature rise due to the time it takes to heat that extra metal, and the larger surface area means more ability to dissipate heat to the surrounding air.

The TN40 is also probably more efficient due to having the internal room for more and larger components in the driver to handle the high currents, and due to spreading the drain across 4 batteries. Better efficiency means less heat.

As far as I've seen, that thread you linked to is basically the authoritative reference - aside from what is listed on the International Outdoors page - for all things D4-related. Everything I've read concurs that the XP-L variant is the coolest running. As it is the most efficient of the emitter options when driven hard, that makes sense.



totobel said:


> I'm not sure I agree... thrunite has several single 18650 which can do 1k lumens without stress. Under 1k lumens its not that impressive... now at 4k lumens its a diff story...



Maukka tested the TC12 here, and I think the TN12 performs similarly. The TN4A might be able to handle the heat longer by virture of its larger size:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...review-with-measurements-(18650-Cree-XP-L-V6)

If you scroll down to the run time graph, you'll see that at 8 minutes it has to step down from 1000+ lumen turbo to ~450 lumen high mode due to heat. However, if he keeps a fan on it, he can keep it in turbo indefinitely, with output gradually declining due to the ability of the included battery to maintain its voltage under load as it discharges.

That's very common behavior for EDC-sized 18650 lights. Zebralights also have thermal control, although they've got a more sophisticated way of managing it than Thrunite called PID control that the D4 at least partially emulates.


----------



## totobel (Sep 27, 2017)

Indeed the tn12 behaviour is very similar.
I got confused by my tn4a which can do 1100lm turbo without stepdown for 40min ! Another advantage of that overlooked beast.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 27, 2017)

Yep, the TN4A looks like a very well-rounded light. I don't need one myself, but I'm often tempted to buy one anyways because it would do a lot of the same tasks as my lesser lights better, and it's an easy light to recommend to somebody who wants a better quality light than what you find in most stores, but can run off AA's.

It serves a different role than what led me consider the D4, although had the TN4A been available with a high CRI-emitter, I might have already bought one and wouldn't even have started the searching that led me to consider the D4.

The idea still sticks in the back of my mind to buy a TN4A anyways and learn how to swap a high-CRI XP-L2 into it.

Actually, seeing how hard the D4 over-drives the N219C, that might even be an option for the TN4A. From a search, djozz over at BLF actually torture tested an N219C to a much higher power level than the TN4A could possibly dump into a single emitter, yet he wasn't able to kill it, so there's additional evidence it should work.


----------



## totobel (Sep 27, 2017)

The question is... do we need high cri...
Even osram/philips sell a huge majority of 80-90 cri leds.
90+ are niche... important for photographers only maybe...


----------



## RollerBoySE (Sep 27, 2017)

totobel said:


> The question is... do we need high cri...
> Even osram/philips sell a huge majority of 80-90 cri leds.
> 90+ are niche... important for photographers only maybe...



If you’ve had a chance to try out high CRI in real life you would know that high CRI matters more than a few extra lumens in helping out to see details. (That is if you have full color vision of course.) Everything also looks nicer with high CRI.
So YES, we need high CRI.


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 27, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> If you’ve had a chance to try out high CRI in real life you would know that high CRI matters more than a few extra lumens in helping out to see details. (That is if you have full color vision of course.) Everything also looks nicer with high CRI.
> So YES, we need high CRI.


So true! High CRI is all part of the resolution we see.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 27, 2017)

No, we don't really need high-CRI in most circumstances, but I find the improvement in appearance nice enough that if the option is available, I'll choose it almost every time.

Since you're more interested in better throw and longer sustained peak output, the XP-L HI definitely sounds like the better choice for your priorities.


----------



## JordanK (Sep 27, 2017)

Couple of questions. I just ordered the D4 with the Nichia 219CT 90CRI, 5000K from Hank. I also ordered the 18350 tube because I have some extra 18350 batteries. 

1) What 18650 cells do you recommend for this light? Hank's website says high drain but I'm looking for the exact brand/model, etc.
2) What kind of performance do you get when you install the short tube and run with a 18350? Do you still get maximum output but a much shorter run time?

Thanks in advance.

Jordan


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 27, 2017)

Sony US18650VTC5A


----------



## RollerBoySE (Sep 27, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> Sony US18650VTC5A



That is the one that gives the highest output.
If you want a tad longer runtime (and can accept slightly lower output): VTC6.

Aspire is the best 18350, but unfortunately (not only runtime) output drops a bit.


----------



## Agpp (Sep 27, 2017)

I second that suggestions, but would also add Sanyo NCR18650GA for the least powerful, but longest running choice.
Don't worry, it will still be bright with GA. 
Personally, I EDC it with Aspire 18350. Before I got these batteries, I used VTC5A as I don't care about runtime in EDC, it's high enough anyway.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 27, 2017)

JordanK said:


> Couple of questions. I just ordered the D4 with the Nichia 219CT 90CRI, 5000K from Hank. I also ordered the 18350 tube because I have some extra 18350 batteries.
> 
> 1) What 18650 cells do you recommend for this light? Hank's website says high drain but I'm looking for the exact brand/model, etc.
> 2) What kind of performance do you get when you install the short tube and run with a 18350? Do you still get maximum output but a much shorter run time?
> ...



Regarding number 2, maukka measured the following comparison between the Aspire 18350 cells and the Sony VTC6. I think he said he has the original 80 CRI Nichia 219C version.
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1166803#comment-1166803

Interestingly, apparently because of the slightly lower initial power (and therefore heat) and quirks with how the thermal control tries to deal with the lag time before the temperature sensor responds to the heat, the Aspires actually have the advantage from about 15 seconds after turn on until over 1 minute.

From what Toykeeper said, it sounds like the Efest 18350 cells also do pretty well.

He also compared the performance of 4 different 18650 cells here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1166865#comment-1166865


----------



## Bazar (Sep 27, 2017)

4 of these is cheaper and brighter than the Olight x7R.
That's nuts, size and price make this a ridiculous light. I want 2 but I'll get 1 and wait for other companies to get higher closer performance. I didn't believe this was real, thought for sure lumen count was inflated.


----------



## totobel (Sep 28, 2017)

RollerBoySE said:


> If you’ve had a chance to try out high CRI in real life you would know that high CRI matters more than a few extra lumens in helping out to see details. (That is if you have full color vision of course.) Everything also looks nicer with high CRI.
> So YES, we need high CRI.


Yes you are right, it would be nice on your EDC
But thd D4 is not that in my eyes, there are better build flashlights for that (nitecore tm03 cri anyone ?)
The D4 is good at one thing : doing what other can't do : >3k lumens in a compact form... so basically the wow effect. Isnt it the reason we are all here ?


----------



## RollerBoySE (Sep 28, 2017)

totobel said:


> Yes you are right, it would be nice on your EDC
> But thd D4 is not that in my eyes, there are better build flashlights for that (nitecore tm03 cri anyone ?)
> The D4 is good at one thing : doing what other can't do : >3k lumens in a compact form... so basically the wow effect. Isnt it the reason we are all here ?



I have no doubt that the TM03 is a nice light, but it’s too bulky (compared to the D4) and expensive (more than 3 times as expensive as the D4) for my taste in EDC. 

Also you’re right, beeing a flashaholic, I “need” the wow factor of the D4.

Furthermore, once bitten by the high CRI bug, you never ever buy a low CRI light again.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 28, 2017)

The TM03 is definitely a lot bigger and heavier than I'm interested in EDC carrying.

My go to light when I want to have one along is AA-powered and less than half the diameter. It tops out at 120 lumens, and that's generally fine.

I probably won't typically carry the D4, but I expect to use it for a lot of close to mid-range tasks, especially where I want illumination levels rivaling normal room lighting.

The insane output is actually of very little interest to me. If an updated firmware with programmable max mode is released, I'll probably play with turbo mode a few times for fun, then set the max at 1000-1500 lumens and leave it there.


----------



## ven (Sep 28, 2017)

Used D4 all yesterday as my work light (yes had to clean it up at the end of the day from dust,oil and grease!). It works very good for my uses,lots of flood with some decent enough punch. The ramping UI is great, so easy and quick enough in either direction when needed to tweak output . I do find one thing difficult, restraining from a double tap for 100%........so damn addictive.


----------



## DIPSTIX (Sep 28, 2017)

I couldn't agree with you more ven. That double tap gets my blood boiling haha. I just purchased my second D4 flashlight with Nichia 219c 90+ CRI. This is my first Nichia purchase. I am excited for this to come in!


----------



## blah9 (Sep 28, 2017)

Haha ven, I imagine I'll have trouble not double tapping the switch all the time for fun as well. Mine is arriving today!

I do have to say that for me high CRI isn't as important as tint. I don't do much that requires distinguishing precise colors in the dark so the majority of the time I just like a warm or neutral tint for whatever I'm working on. I have one high CRI light so that's enough for me to use when I need it, but the majority of the time I prefer other lights with different UIs. Although maybe after I get the D4vn I'll have to get one in high CRI as well lol.


----------



## ven (Sep 28, 2017)

There is the 90cri 219c available now blah and also two new colours, cyan(looks blue-ish) and green(different to the D1 green). Both new colours are textured, both look very cool.

The 4000k xp-g2 is nice for evening use being a little on the warm side, the 5000k 219c works well in day/evening or artificial light for me. The D4vn is maybe 5000-5500k(hard to tell), lots of punch and easier to use for spotting stuff or aiming at things at a little distance. 

If you like little throwers blah, the D1/D1vn is certainly worth of a look...............another awesome light by hank


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 28, 2017)

My D4vn XPG2 PDT is 4500K tops. There's always variations due to bin lottery.


----------



## ven (Sep 28, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> My D4vn XPG2 PDT is 4500K tops. There's always variations due to bin lottery.



Sounds super nice MAD

Its hard for me to put a K on it, colours look mainly great..................depends on ambient light. Outside all is very good, in work under horrid cool lighting it can play hell with "tints"


----------



## blah9 (Sep 28, 2017)

Thanks ven. Well this will be my farthest throwing single 18650 light so I don't know if I like pocket throwers yet haha. But I do like to have a little bit of throw (I think 13k lux is decent enough for most of my purposes). Otherwise I usually get out a bigger light like the TK75vnkt. Don't seem to have so many in-between situations for whatever reason.


----------



## ven (Sep 28, 2017)

Sometimes you have to go and find them blahDo you buy a light for an application, or have an application for a light


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 28, 2017)

I'm pretty good about refraining from buying lights unless I do have an application they'd serve. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop me from wasting time admiring all the different appealing lights and trying to think up rationalizations for buying them. :thinking:

For the D4, it will be a range of various tasks. One recent instance was checking on some young trees to see how they were handling the unusually dry summer we've been having. Even at ~400 lumens and with a NW tint, I wouldn't have minded a bit more power, and better CRI definitely would have helped looking for subtle signs of distress. Some of the trees looked worse than they actually turned out to be when my work schedule gave me a chance to examine them again in daylight.


----------



## ven (Sep 29, 2017)

These go hand in hand! 




No not measured the temp yet :laughing:


----------



## TCY (Sep 29, 2017)

I dropped mine today... too slippery without the knurling. Fell onto the stair carpet and unfortunately bounced straight onto stone cold wall. Heartbroken


----------



## eh4 (Sep 29, 2017)

Due to this thread, and ven's comparison pics, I ordered a D1 in neutral, which arrived yesterday. 
I'm really impressed with the UI, and everything else about the light. I was hoping for an even tighter beam and hotspot, and an even lower low, but I was getting carried away with expectations. 
I think it's Amazing for the price and size, quality, and UI. 
Definitely getting a D4 next.


----------



## TCY (Sep 29, 2017)

Might be the wrong place to do it but it's a good chance to appreciate ZL's choice of using only Alcoa bar stocks with their signature ano and keeping their cost & price high. It really pays off.

Pic one and two: results of me dropping my SC62w onto hard concrete from chest height (~1.6m, I was foolishly juggling and I missed), I've mentioned this in other threads. Didn't even chew thruough the ano layer which I was super impressed, albeit heartbroken. A much harder hit than that which my D4 took but apparently less damage done.

Pic three: SC62w fell onto a ceramic/ porcelain cooking pot sitting on the floor. You can see the aluminium gives up but ano decides to keep on living.


----------



## eh4 (Sep 29, 2017)

I love the durability of my ZLs, countless drops from waist to concrete. 
I'm not going to worry if the D1 and D4 are softer. I'm already messing with some bicycle inner tube cut outs to shield this D1 from bashes and especially dirty and gritty environments. 
Gonna set the temperature sensor with the inner tube covering switch and tail cap. The inner tube is of course easily replaceable. 
For that matter I could use some copper tape at the bezel, it might not look very nice but it would conduct heat and guard the aluminum, and the adhesive could always be removed with a little Goof-Off.


----------



## TCY (Sep 29, 2017)

The ugly truth about me and a flashlight: the battle scar becomes permanent once it's there, and I feel guilty every time I see it... especially when it's a vn light. :duh2:


----------



## eh4 (Sep 29, 2017)

I probably don't take as good of care of my tools as many here do, mostly focused on not losing or outright breaking my stuff. But I don't have any custom builder or modder or art lights either.


----------



## ven (Sep 29, 2017)

I hate dings, but you know something..................after the 1st ding/drop you can relax a little and actually enjoy the light more................am i alone with this(have a little OCD myself)?

Yes ano not best on the D4/D1, but the output/UI and internals make up for it imho. ZL, well the little sc62d has had a couple of proper drops, will take a pic now of what happens when it spins out of your hand onto a hard concrete floor from 3ft+

Clue would be look towards 9 oclock(little hand)





Really glad your enjoying the little D1 eh4, your fondness will only grow stronger to a point of ordering another or a D4 to complement it nicely Vinhs xp-g2 PDT would be the best option for a tighter hot spot, loss of lumens really does not matter if its all in the hotspot.
Family pic


----------



## blah9 (Sep 29, 2017)

I'm always disappointed with that first drop as well, but I agree with ven that after that first time I'm not so bothered by something small later on. So maybe it's a good thing! Haha.

My D4vn was supposed to arrive yesterday but it never showed up. The tracking doesn't seem to know what happened to it either. Oh well! Hopefully it will still show up one of these days. Trying to be patient lol.


----------



## ven (Sep 29, 2017)

Hopefully you will have it for the weekend, good old USPS...................just like royal mail it seems.

Yes, have you noticed the beat up lights, ano missing, scrapes,dings and dents have more sentimental value compared to the new or immaculate ones. Because they have history with us, many uses, be it adventures or fixing things. Loosing a new light always hurts, loosing a beat up heavily used one hurts more! 

Ratchet and no clank yet!


----------



## iamlucky13 (Sep 29, 2017)

TCY said:


> I dropped mine today... too slippery without the knurling. Fell onto the stair carpet and unfortunately bounced straight onto stone cold wall. Heartbroken



Thanks for doing a drop test for us!

Don't get me wrong me, I'm sorry it got a bit banged up, but at least we now have evidence it can take a few hits.

And don't be too upset. Now you've got proof your light gets used and earns its keep, rather than being a shelf queen.


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 29, 2017)

I like the D4 so much, I might order another 219c because they raised the CRI to 90. My 219c is only 80 CRI.


----------



## ven (Sep 29, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> I like the D4 so much, I might order another 219c because they raised the CRI to 90. My 219c is only 80 CRI.




Me to Mike, one will be used in work, other at home......................easy to justify. For you retired, not so easy Maybe a different colour and save the 90 cri for weekend............deal done


----------



## TCY (Sep 29, 2017)

True, after the first drop that breaks the perfect ano, I tend to care less about babying it. That said the D4 is crazy useful and a must have, especially for just $40:twothumbs


----------



## eh4 (Sep 29, 2017)

The first few dings, I'll be feeling like a fool and concerned about breaking it. The first ding is a flaw, but after it's survived a few, the additional marks take attention away from the first cosmetic flaw and they drift over into character and evidence of durability. 

The excellent UI is what really sold me on these lights, it's the kind of UI that I always wanted but gave up hoping for, great work Tom E and TK.
I've noticed one ironic glitch/feature, which is that the lockout mode does not survive in memory if the tail cap is loosened and tightened, even for a second. This limits the usefulness of lockout for me, but I can see how it would act as a fail safe for someone who didn't know or forgot about lockout. 
However, the momentary only mode is retained even with the tail cap loosened for an hour+, I haven't tried a longer duration yet. So momentary is going to be my default lockout.


----------



## xdayv (Sep 29, 2017)

With Emisar's positive impact to the community, will this usher the transition of adopting its light module by some of our favorite custom light makers? What do you think? :candle:


----------



## eh4 (Sep 29, 2017)

Considering that Tom E and TK made the firmware open-source, yeah I'd certainly say so.


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 29, 2017)

ven said:


> Me to Mike, one will be used in work, other at home......................easy to justify. For you retired, not so easy Maybe a different colour and save the 90 cri for weekend............deal done


Thank you for the excuse, I mean, justification ven! LOL


----------



## MAD777 (Sep 29, 2017)

eh4 said:


> Considering that Tom E and TK made the firmware open-source, yeah I'd certainly say so.


The flashlight gods are smiling on us flashaholics. Vinh is coming out with options.


----------



## eh4 (Sep 29, 2017)

Also, some of the FET drivers at Mountain Electronics have an optional firmware by Toykeeper called Crescendo, it's a ramping UI that she designed for Clickys...


----------



## P1X4R (Sep 29, 2017)

Exactly. I've paid for lots of flashlights that cost more than $40. This is an absolute deal. I'll definitely pick up a few more. That cyan is definitely calling me. Just waiting for Mtn Electronics to get them in stock.



eh4 said:


> Due to this thread, and ven's comparison pics, I ordered a D1 in neutral, which arrived yesterday.
> I'm really impressed with the UI, and everything else about the light. I was hoping for an even tighter beam and hotspot, and an even lower low, but I was getting carried away with expectations.
> *I think it's Amazing for the price and size, quality, and UI.*
> Definitely getting a D4 next.


----------



## xdayv (Sep 29, 2017)

P1X4R said:


> Exactly. I've paid for lots of flashlights that cost more than $40. This is an absolute deal. I'll definitely pick up a few more. That cyan is definitely calling me. Just waiting for Mtn Electronics to get them in stock.


I think the Cyan makes it in a way "less tactical" looking. For the gray man.


----------



## staticx57 (Sep 29, 2017)

eh4 said:


> Also, some of the FET drivers at Mountain Electronics have an optional firmware by Toykeeper called Crescendo, it's a ramping UI that she designed for Clickys...



MTN has added NarsilM to all of his drivers that support electronic switches so you can mod your own lights with it. My Convoy L6 has the same firmware now.:devil:


----------



## P1X4R (Sep 29, 2017)

LOL. Add a little color in your life. 









xdayv said:


> I think the Cyan makes it in a way "less tactical" looking. For the gray man.


----------



## eh4 (Sep 30, 2017)

staticx57 said:


> MTN has added NarsilM to all of his drivers that support electronic switches so you can mod your own lights with it. My Convoy L6 has the same firmware now.:devil:



[HEAD EXPLODING EMOJI]


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 2, 2017)

It sounds like there is no clear timeline for a possible UI v3 with the changes Toykeeper has discussed over on BLF.
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1195897#comment-1195897

I guess that means I should stop waiting and order mine.

Since I'd like to try the changes she said she's made to her own, unofficial v3, does anybody know what is involved in flashing the firmware. It sounds to me like this is an ATtiny-based driver, so I should be able to follow the guides that exist for that controller. Does anybody here happen to know?


----------



## Tixx (Oct 2, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> It sounds like there is no clear timeline for a possible UI v3 with the changes Toykeeper has discussed over on BLF.
> http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1195897#comment-1195897
> 
> I guess that means I should stop waiting and order mine.
> ...



Ask her and check the links in the bottom of her posts. They talk a lot about Attiny85. I would love to try her new stuff, I just haven't the time.


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 2, 2017)

I bought my third D4 today! 
I'm addicted.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 2, 2017)

Tixx said:


> Ask her and check the links in the bottom of her posts. They talk a lot about Attiny85. I would love to try her new stuff, I just haven't the time.



Yeah, I know. It's not like I don't know where to find someone of authority.

I'm trying to avoid joining another forum to suck up my attention when I should be doing other things, so I thought I'd ask here as a start.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 3, 2017)

I read through the thread far enough to see that for now you have to disassemble the light, free the driver, and from there it might be as simple as clipping to leads and connecting through some kind of adapter to a computer... and then there might be some command line stuff involved... or not. 
But it's minor surgery at the least.

TK was saying that there are possibilities of future designs where "acupuncture style" needles could be used to re flash the driver without major disassembly, but that that was somewhere between a pipe dream and not happening. Sounds great to me, let good solder joints and thermal bonds be.


----------



## ven (Oct 3, 2017)

Little test today, 3 lots of 100%, so after a few step downs, double click to 100% and repeat. All kept under control, temp reading of.........





Cell temp





Hot hot hot!!!! Did not push it any more as no real point, this was turbo run, two step ups .


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 3, 2017)

Good to know that temperature data. I'm using VTC5A based on HKJ's data showing it doesn't create much internal heat.


----------



## ven (Oct 3, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> Good to know that temperature data. I'm using VTC5A based on HKJ's data showing it doesn't create much internal heat.



IIRC Mike, this is around 1st run/step down outside temp(set to 65oC on the driver)






Bare in mind its pretty fast and the temp still rises as it steps down several times)

Its home for now in tool bag


----------



## Agpp (Oct 3, 2017)

Please note that the internal temperature sensor is not calibrated. So it's better to think about it being set to 65 units, with unit being specific to that individual light sample.


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 3, 2017)

My heat detection device is my had around the flashlight head. When I can't hold it any longer, I cry "uncle" and switch it off.
BTW, I hate metal off switches. They leave a blister! LOL


----------



## ven (Oct 3, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> My heat detection device is my had around the flashlight head. When I can't hold it any longer, I cry "uncle" and switch it off.
> BTW, I hate metal off switches. They leave a blister! LOL




:laughing: me too!!! Too hot to hold..............drop it!


----------



## eh4 (Oct 3, 2017)

iamluck13, 
about settings the maximum level for the purposes of conserving battery, what I've done with this D1 is enter thermal config mode and end the config almost immediately, as soon as I noticed a modest amount of heat. 
In warm weather at least, this should work out well for limiting the max level during continuous operation where I overlook ramping it down, while still giving me full power for short blasts, which is about all the duration that I foresee wanting that much power for in such a small light. 

Also, while I need a second identical light to compare, I'm almost thinking that the thermal protection is working Better on this low setting, kind of like "a stitch in time, saves nine" maybe? 
Seems plenty bright, and not getting very hot, maybe by stepping down a little bit, and very early, the need for larger step down is being avoided?

D4 with extra18350 tube and batteries are in the mail.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 3, 2017)

Thank you for the suggestion eh4. That's something I will give a try.

I haven't actually ordered yet. I've been hoping Mountain Electronics would get more of the N219C version in, presumably the 90+ CRI variant International Outdoors has. I'd prefer to avoid the long shipping time and unreliable tracking that goes with international orders. Mountain's site only says more should be on the way soon, with no expected time frame or hints about updated specs.

Did anybody here order through International Outdoor, and if so, how long did it take?


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 3, 2017)

I dug through HKJ's test data on the various recommended cells a bit yesterday. The VTC5A really looks like the cell to beat for being able to maintain high output even at low state of charge. I think I will have to get one of those and and a Sanyo GA on order so I can compare how it runs on both.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 3, 2017)

You're welcome, it's worth messing with anyways. 
I overdid it a few times, setting the temp impractically low, and since the limit doesn't seem to be predictive, it overshoots, causing a rapid dimming if the thermal protection is set too, too low. 

For this neutral HI D1 I'm pretty happy now with the thermal limit around 55C. I'm not certain of the set temperature, that's the temp that the light reports immediately after turn off, having run it for some minutes past the initial overshoot til it ramped back up, while in hand.
I have no idea if it'll work well with a D4 or not, but since there's diminishing returns at the high end for leds, it should. 

The N219c version is supposed to be the hottest running of the three, and the least throw, the neutral HI sitting between it and the cool HI version, which is the least hot running with the most throw.


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 3, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> Did anybody here order through International Outdoor, and if so, how long did it take?



Yes, I did and it took only 2 weeks to Florida. I was amazed. So much so, I ordered another 219c, 90+ CRI yesterday.

BTW, I think the VTC5A is the best battery for this light, by far.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 3, 2017)

eh4 said:


> You're welcome, it's worth messing with anyways.
> I overdid it a few times, setting the temp impractically low, and since the limit doesn't seem to be predictive, it overshoots, causing a rapid dimming if the thermal protection is set too, too low.
> ...
> The N219c version is supposed to be the hottest running of the three, and the least throw, the neutral HI sitting between it and the cool HI version, which is the least hot running with the most throw.



I expect the 219C will be most prone to overshoot, too, due to the lag time before heat reaches the sensor, especially since it has a higher thermal resistance than the Cree LEDs do.



MAD777 said:


> Yes, I did and it took only 2 weeks to Florida. I was amazed. So much so, I ordered another 219c, 90+ CRI yesterday.
> 
> BTW, I think the VTC5A is the best battery for this light, by far.



2 weeks is not bad at all. Order placed!


----------



## ven (Oct 3, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> Did anybody here order through International Outdoor, and if so, how long did it take?




3 separate orders, all under 2 weeks to the UK for me. In fact all orders took around 8 days! So far using int outdoors(a while now), never had any issue.


----------



## eraursls1984 (Oct 4, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> 2 weeks is not bad at all. Order placed!


It might take a little longer right now since there is a national holiday(s) in China right now.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 4, 2017)

D4 from Mountain Electronics came in today. Ordered it in the wee hours of Oct. 1st. 

Wow it's bright, heats up fast, and cools down fast, ridiculously short with the 18350 tube... 

This one is supposed to be the coolest running, furthest throwing version with cool white XP-L HI.
... The N219c version should be fantastic in the winter as a dual purpose light, and hand warmer.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 4, 2017)

eraursls1984 said:


> It might take a little longer right now since there is a national holiday(s) in China right now.



Good to know. 2-3 weeks isn't bad. 6+ weeks like some foreign shipping takes would definitely try my patience though.



eh4 said:


> ... The N219c version should be fantastic in the winter as a dual purpose light, and hand warmer.



:thumbsup: I actually already had that in mind. My wife is going to object to me buying another lights, but she is always cold, and not just in the winter.

I figure there should be 2-3 hours of respectable heat per battery, and most battery powered handwarmers just have one or two modes - they can't ramp up or down for optimal comfort!

So that seemed like a better justification that trying to portray my set of lights as small compared to what some of the collectors and reviewers around here have.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 5, 2017)

A couple posts from the D1S thread that are better suited to discuss over here:



lumen aeternum said:


> So I found a BLF post on the Emisar D4:
> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55306?
> 
> The functions seem very nice, from moon to incredibly bright. Why don't they put that into a light that has more mass so it can stay cool?
> ...



The beam should be very floody. Maybe not quite as floody as the similar (quad emitter, TIR optics) Manker E14, but probably close:
Manker E14, Nichia 219B:
https://abload.de/img/comp_3p11702903czw1.jpg
Manker E14, XP-G2:
https://abload.de/img/comp_3p1170288rgll8.jpg

That thread you linked to also has a few beamshots pictures and videos scattered through it. No side-profiles that I saw, but they at least give you a general sense of what it looks like.

I waffled for a while before ordering the D4, because I also would have preferred something larger that could handle the heat better and had a bit more throw. Really, I don't even need that much power in a compact light, so I could have gone with the D1 if it had been possible to equip that with a Nichia.

But a light matching exactly what I wanted doesn't exist, so I ordered a D4 anyways, because it's as close as I have seen. Even a rapid drop to ~500 lumens is still really useful to me.

Also, it doesn't need to be able to sustain max mode for long to rationalize the design choices that were made. I think the designer explained it well with an example:



> Ramp up to whatever level you need for walking the dog.
> If you hear a noise, double-click to go to turbo and see what happened.
> Afterward, double-click to go back to the dog-walking level.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 5, 2017)

ven said:


> It is fantastic UI, real user friendly yet lots to it. There may be little tweaks coming from toykeeper. This would be along the lines of creating your own ceiling(your own max level). So for high output(D4) that get hot fast, you could pre set a 1000lm level as max for an example.



The latest comment from Toykeeper is she has several improvements working successfully, including programmable max and min ramping modes, as well as an alternate stair-step mode that is fairly easy to switch to from ramping mode.

However, she also said Hank Wang is busy with other projects and has given no indication whether he's interested in further changes to the UI, much less when they might happen.

As happy as most users seem to be with the UI, I'm operating under the assumption that Hank is happy with it, too, so v3 is not happening any time soon. I haven't bought an interface clip and programming module for myself yet, and the process of flashing the firmware looks moderately difficult, but I think I probably will give it a try eventually.


----------



## Bazar (Oct 5, 2017)

P1X4R said:


> Exactly. I've paid for lots of flashlights that cost more than $40. This is an absolute deal. I'll definitely pick up a few more. That cyan is definitely calling me. Just waiting for Mtn Electronics to get them in stock.



Please, the light is selling out. Only buy a couple until a second wave comes out next year


----------



## JordanK (Oct 7, 2017)

Has anyone received one of the new D4’s with the new grainy green/cyan finish?

Curious how it looks. I ordered a green one but I’m still waiting for it to arrive. 

Jordan


----------



## blah9 (Oct 18, 2017)

Decided to buy a black D4 with Nichia LEDs. Really looking forward to checking it out!


----------



## KG_Tuning (Oct 18, 2017)

JordanK said:


> Has anyone received one of the new D4’s with the new grainy green/cyan finish?
> 
> Curious how it looks. I ordered a green one but I’m still waiting for it to arrive.
> 
> Jordan



I've got one, in pics it looks almost baby blue, in in real life its quite blue/grey. 

I got mine with the frosted optic.


----------



## blah9 (Oct 19, 2017)

Just received my Nichia D4 today and it's great.  Really enjoying this light. Made some frozen pizza and checked on whether they were done in the oven with some pretty good color rendition haha. Also having a blast clicking it on turbo of course. Definitely runs down the battery pretty quickly. Going to EDC this light for a while and it should be really useful and really fun.


----------



## ven (Oct 20, 2017)

Good stuff blah see how long you can use it without the double tap temptation.


----------



## blah9 (Oct 20, 2017)

Haha I can't last very long before doing that. Tried to resist as much as possible last night but still drained the battery in one night!


----------



## staticx57 (Oct 20, 2017)

Now you need to try out 4 presses momentary turbo mode


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 20, 2017)

Draining the battery on these things is SO much fun!!


----------



## blah9 (Oct 20, 2017)

Yes, I did that by accident as well (turning on momentary). Forgot how many presses were for checking the battery voltage and instead turned it into momentary. Pretty cool stuff.


----------



## ven (Oct 20, 2017)

blah9 said:


> Haha I can't last very long before doing that. Tried to resist as much as possible last night but still drained the battery in one night!




One night!!! 

I must have been through 3 cells, all within a couple of hours . I eat through a cell in a little over 10m with 100% use, well down to 3.5v anyway, time to top swap out and top off! Normally a spare is adequate, for this light and how addictive double click is............at least 2 cells


----------



## blah9 (Oct 20, 2017)

ven said:


> One night!!!
> 
> I must have been through 3 cells, all within a couple of hours . I eat through a cell in a little over 10m with 100% use, well down to 3.5v anyway, time to top swap out and top off! Normally a spare is adequate, for this light and how addictive double click is............at least 2 cells



Lol! Yeah I did that the night I got the D4vn - went through 3 cells. But I tried really hard last night to not go through so many with the Nichia D4 haha! I only have 4 VTC5's in my possession anyway I think and didn't feel like charging them right away. But I hear there is a meteor shower peak this weekend so maybe I'll get some good usage the next couple nights!


----------



## ven (Oct 20, 2017)

Thats a cool use! These little D4 lights are worth having multiple of, house,car,work,edc etc as they are that good! Little pocket powerhouse, that can run as low as you want for long periods.................or burn darkness away in a fireball of hi cri for minutes! 

The new green colour is tempting me in 90+ cri, already for plenty of 5000k xpl HI(6500k does not interest me) and prefer the nichia 5000k. Would be cool to have more options in 4000k other than the xp-g2(which is very nice as it is). Would like a 219c 4000k or maybe 4500k thrown in. The 219b would make a real nice beam, but would imagine not ideal for the driver and not what Hank wants(lower output).


----------



## biker1 (Oct 21, 2017)

I just came across the Emisar D4 and did a lot of research on it. This is some light at a fantastic price point, from the shear power to the ramping ui. I've been looking for a single cell high lumen 18650 light with a nice price point for awhile. 
I placed an order with Hank Wang @ Intl-Outdoorfor the Cyan with the optional 18350 tube & clip in 219C, but I then changed my order to the XP-L HI V3 1A flavor. I wanted the additional brightness and throw, and the 90CRI color rendering wasn't that important to me. 
I also placed an order with Liion Wholesale for 2x Sony VTC5A's and 2x Aspire 1100mAh 18350's. 
I look forward to receiving this light which will most likely become my EDC.


----------



## ven (Oct 21, 2017)

:rock:


----------



## biker1 (Oct 22, 2017)

I was thinking to change my LED selection to the XP-L V2 3A from the XP-L V3 1A. Seeing the photos posted by @andreas0401 (Thank you!) confirmed my decision. Excellent color rendition compared to the V3 1A, without giving up lumens & throw. 
I hope Hank doesn't get upset with me for sending those change emails ;-)


----------



## ven (Oct 22, 2017)

biker1 said:


> I was thinking to change my LED selection to the XP-L V2 3A from the XP-L V3 1A. Seeing the photos posted by @andreas0401 (Thank you!) confirmed my decision. Excellent color rendition compared to the V3 1A, without giving up lumens & throw.
> I hope Hank doesn't get upset with me for sending those change emails ;-)




Dont forget the D1/D1vn:naughty:


----------



## stfc69 (Oct 22, 2017)

Love these little lights, already had the D4 (xpl neutral) which has quickly become my work edc which is why I've ordered another one (nichia) to keep in good condition! 

I've just received the D1 as well, really impressive and a lot brighter than I was expecting, quite a bit brighter than my SDminiVN.


----------



## biker1 (Oct 22, 2017)

ven said:


> Dont forget the D1/D1vn:naughty:



I'm not getting any instant email notifications for some reason. 
I gotta check out those D1 specs. That head looks a little big for edc though. 
I figured with the D4 I'll get 300 yards of throw, more than enough for me in an 18650 package, with a whole lotta flood. 
The perfect package. And if I keep the lumen usage within a normal range, I'll get some nice runtimes, but I'll likely carry a spare 18650 in case I can't control myself, which I won't want to anyway


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 22, 2017)

Might as well carry a spare D4.
I have the 219c and Vinh's XPG2 dedomed. Flood & throw. The one I'm not using is my spare battery holder, LOL.
I'm considering getting the XPL-HI battery holder too.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 22, 2017)

As neat as the D4 is, the D1 is quite useful. 
I got the neutral HI D1 first, then ordered a cool HI D4 to go with it. 
The D1 with 1/4 the potential lumens and battery drain of the D4, but with good throw, and it's still quite a small light even with the 18650 tube, with an 18350 tube it's comically small and head heavy, and even more impressive of a thrower for its Liliputian appearance. 
D4 with an 18650 tube and D1 with an 18350 tube are quite a little pair... but if you don't actually need either one that small, definitely go 18650 for both. 
If I could only have one I'd definitely have the D1, really practical light. 
I particularly appreciate how both lights have a very non aggressive look to their design, they look like toy lights, it complements their over sized power and lumens range. 
I've managed to drop my D1 now onto concrete almost every night since I received it btw, I sit in the dark on my porch, put the light in my lap, forget about it and stand up. So it's survived 15-30, 2-3 foot drops already, doesn't seem to make any difference.
I did put a little bike inner tube on each end in anticipation of a hard life, and I'm hoping that we eventually see an "Indestructible" version of these lights with some nice moulded rubber bumpers pre-installed, leaving plenty of exposed aluminum for heat transfer of course.


----------



## biker1 (Oct 22, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> Might as well carry a spare D4.
> I have the 219c and Vinh's XPG2 dedomed. Flood & throw. The one I'm not using is my spare battery holder, LOL.
> I'm considering getting the XPL-HI battery holder too.



Lol regarding spare battery holder. Great description. 
I appreciate Hank's patience regarding my multiple emails and change requests. 
Hopefully he'll ship it soon so I don't have time to change my mind again 
First time ordering from Intl-outdoor.com and Hank has responded very quickly to my multiple emails, considering it is the weekend :twothumbs
Looking forward to receiving my Cyan D4.


----------



## ven (Oct 23, 2017)

If its pocket carry(normal type pants................what ever they are!) biker1, then yes the head of the D1 may be a little on the large side. But for example, if in a coat or simply a walk and by hand(or sat on a porch like eh4) its still compact for its performance. Your looking at near 1600lm out of the box, a nice 5000k beam(or 6500k if thats floats your boat) from the xpl HI(great LED for actual "tint" consistency imo). 

You must be tempted for another colour................great excuse for a D1/D1vn






Mine is in work, its a useful beam for me thanks to having usable bright enough spill. Due to the intensity (around 43kcd on 100%), i do not need it much over the 350ma setting(lock out with tail cap, lock in and you get the double flash to let you know your at the 350ma level). Again, the double click gets me!!! I just cant help myself..................:devil:





Tool bag it goes..............Can see the size difference here in the head/s





imho, if the D4 is a must buy(it is, it has to be the best value $40 light..................possibly ever , along side the discounted 6p!) Then the D1 complements it perfectly 


Be warned though biker1.......................the little monsters have been known to multiply(dont get them wet!)


----------



## biker1 (Oct 23, 2017)

@ven 
Thanks for the great comparison photos! 
Some collection. Looks like your Emisars were in the ocean for too long lol! 
I'll try to keep mine dry 
If I get a D1, most likely will be the Grey D1vn Spec 2 or 3, although the D1 may be too large for my pants pocket, compared to the D4 w/clip. 
I'm looking at the Spec 3 due to the 5000K XP-L. Do you know the lumen/lux? 
Looking forward to receiving my D4


----------



## ven (Oct 23, 2017)

The standard D1 with xpl HI 5000k will be around 40kcd and between 1300-1600lm i would have thought(6500k is 43kcd and near 1600lm).

What ever the figures, it throws a decent defined hot spot with bright spill.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 23, 2017)

D1 looks big because it's next to the D4, compared to any thrower that's close to its abilities (that I'm aware of), it's quite small. Also the lack of crennelations, or sticky rubber boot on the end make it slide into and out of a pocket nicely. 
I keep my ZLH600w clipped in my front jeans pocket 24/7 and don't ever notice it.
The D1 is bulkier than that for sure, but it'll sit in a front or back jeans pocket as a lump no problem, where it shines is sitting in a jacket pocket, low drag and easy access. 
D4 with 18350 tube even fits well in jeans watch pocket!


----------



## ven (Oct 23, 2017)

Yes eh4, next to the predator






Its still a tiny light, but depending on what your used to EDCing, may be a tad too big..............subjective.


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 23, 2017)

The D1 in XPL-HI variety, matches my concept of a balanced light. Near optimum mix of flood & throw. A great one light solution that is hides easily when pocketed in a jacket or cargo pocket.

I do wonder, with the larger head diameter, why not a 26650 version. I think it's begging for it!


----------



## ven (Oct 23, 2017)

:naughty: Agree MAD, would be an awesome addition with 26650 body!


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Oct 23, 2017)

I suspect there's a lot less demand for 26650.

Also there aren't any 26650s that use the latest chemistry. Result is a 26650 is something like twice the weight of an 18650, but with only 30% more capacity.

I have a DQG Tiny 26650. It's a great light, but the extra weight is really noticeable. I would never consider it a suitable candidate for pocket EDC. In contrast, the D1 even with its large head is still small and light enough for EDC in loose pants.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 23, 2017)

ven said:


> Yes eh4, next to the predator
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Functionally, my neutral HI D1 throws as well as my v3 XB-H warm Predator, though the predator has a more agreeable, tighter hot spot and smaller spill with fewer lumens. 

I'm looking to solve that with a D1vn variant #2 that's hopefully in the mail now... but ultimately I think that a predator host is gonna be sacrificed for a side switch and flush tail cap mods, and with a D4/D1 driver and electrical always on/ momentary side switch.


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 23, 2017)

Fireclaw18 said:


> I suspect there's a lot less demand for 26650.
> 
> Also there aren't any 26650s that use the latest chemistry. Result is a 26650 is something like twice the weight of an 18650, but with only 30% more capacity.
> 
> I have a DQG Tiny 26650. It's a great light, but the extra weight is really noticeable. I would never consider it a suitable candidate for pocket EDC. In contrast, the D1 even with its large head is still small and light enough for EDC in loose pants.


These Shockli 26650 look pretty good to me, even when compared to the velnerable Samsung 30Q 18650.
HKJ charts:


----------



## eh4 (Oct 23, 2017)

Ok, so this is where you need an aftermarket adapter to go from a (hopefully standard enough) threaded 18650 to threaded 26650...

I want several.


----------



## ven (Oct 23, 2017)

There probably would be less demand, but i will take the extra 30% tank, the extra size(actually prefer 26650 over 18650 for in hand comfort(subjective again). I see the 18500 as a bit pointless myself, even the 18350 for me is not much point, as you only loose a little in length, yet 1100mah V 3000+ mah(around a 1/3 the energy give/take). Plus i am not keen on the form of the 18350 on these lights(certainly the D1) . Even if a limited supply, we could use a sleeve and run 20700 for extra flexibility(and 18650 ,for me, comfier in hand in 26650 form). If i had the option, i would have had a few 26650 bodies, for now just 18650 and dont plan on any of the other offered sizes myself.


----------



## BigusLightus (Oct 24, 2017)

Received my green D4 219 yesterday. Now that the weather is turning cold I plan to use it for a hand warmer and also to boil water in an emergency.
This light gets hot faster than my gas grill. It also produces an amazing wow factor when turned on Turbo. The ramping UI always finds the proper output. I'm digging it. Got to get a blue one also, just to use as a spare battery holder has someone else has already mentioned.


----------



## biker1 (Oct 24, 2017)

@ven 
Thanks for the D1 beamshot. Nice tight spot. 
@eh4 
I'm gonna see how the D4 is, as that'll most likely be my edc. 
But that D1 has a nice punch to it.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 24, 2017)

@biker1
I got a D4 specifically for use as a short range, minimal aiming needed blaster, set to momentary high only. D1 is more my idea of a general purpose, practical light, more aiming, less battery drain. I like floody light too, but it seems like when I need it I can usually bounce off a ceiling or object to get it.


----------



## biker1 (Oct 24, 2017)

@eh4 
I hear what you're saying regarding flood and throw. 
Where I am, there's a lot of darkness with little light at night.
I like a lot of flood so I can have a wide peripheral view of the things that go bump in the night  and the D4 has approx. 300m of throw which I won't be using much anyway as I won't be on max much. 
Approx. 100m of throw would be fine, along with the lumens she has. Obviously I won't be using the 4300l except for the Holy Crap! factor, but 500l is probably going to be sufficient enough for the majority of my needs. I'll see how it goes once I play around with it.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 24, 2017)

Well the D4 is amazing, somehow pulling a working exterior yard light bulb out of your pocket wouldn't even be that much more impressive.

My choice of cool white for maximum throw and glare is definitely limiting my desire to use the light on its lower levels, blue grey moonlight bleh. 
I'll probably end up with another one to in neutral HI before long. 
These things do seem like pure utility to me, no value added features, no knurling. 
I haven't had any of the trepidations about blowing the $ on them that I've felt with other, more carefully agonized over lights that I've bought in the past. 
I know these will be easy enough to mod upgrades when the time comes, and with the UI being so intuitive, if I set the thermal limit conservatively I wouldn't have any trepidations about handing one off to an intelligent non enthusiast for the evening.


----------



## ven (Oct 24, 2017)

For evening uses around the house or for walks in parks, I can recommend the 4000k xp-g2. Nice touch of warmth to the beam that brings colours out nicely.


----------



## DIPSTIX (Oct 24, 2017)

I have two D4's now. One is a XPL version and the other is a nichia 219. it is my first nichia flashlight and I have to say I am hooked! I never knew 20 CRI could make such a dramatic difference.


----------



## JordanK (Oct 24, 2017)

I just received my green Nichia 219c D4. Took 24 days to arrive from Intl-Outdoors via Hong Kong. What a fun little light. I’ve been using it with the 18350 tube and it’s totally cute. Really tiny and easy to carry in your pocket. Also...I agree with everyone who has said that this is definitely the best UI I’ve used on a flashlight. Extremely clever. Makes my other lights feel boring. 

Jordan


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 24, 2017)

So true, Jordan!


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 25, 2017)

My wait is now over 3 weeks. Meanwhile, you wouldn't believe how many cruel people on the internet are flaunting their D4's as if everybody has one. 

Some of the wait is to be expected due to limited stock and/or the big Chinese holiday around the time I ordered it.

I expected if anything, shipping progress through China would be the main hold up, not the US. It landed in LAX 9 days ago and still hasn't left, a mix of US customs and DHL holdups, apparently.

If neither of them can keep up with processing in mid-October, they are going to be buried when the peak shopping season comes around.


----------



## P1X4R (Oct 25, 2017)

Ordered a cyan D4 last Saturday from International Outdoor. Got an email status on Monday that it's shipping. Hopefully I won't have to wait too long.

Oh, too funny! I was about to comment that I was tired of waiting for the cyan version to be in stock at Mountain Electronics.. Well, I see that they're now in stock! lol


----------



## fneuf (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm searching runtime charts for the D4 but can't find any one "useful to my purpose". I'm seeking to replace my helmet flashlight for mountain/road biking (currently a 6 years old modded Ultrafire C2 that maintains 400+ lumens for ~45min) and I try to see if the D4 could fit the purpose (I already have a floody on the handlebar). Therefore it will be cool down from the activity generated airflow, from 7 to 70km/h depending on the symbol :devil: of the slopes, in a 0°C (winter) to 30°C (summer) atmosphere.

The only runtimes I find for the D4 are on the insanely high Turbo mode. And this would definitely not be wise on an helmet (nor for the helmet flashlight holder). Where can I find runtimes for around 1000lm levels?


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 26, 2017)

fneuf - Here's a curve with cooling starting at 1200 lumens. Brightness gradually drops to half around 40 minutes:
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1164964#comment-1164964

The D4 is not the most efficient single 18650 light, but the more efficient lights wouldn't push that performance much past an hour, I don't think. If you want much more runtime in the 1000 lumen range, you need multiple cells.


----------



## ven (Oct 26, 2017)

You can defo have 400lm constant fneuf, maybe around 600lm ish constant or until the battery gets low.............If you run around 1000lm, it will step down due to the heat build up, but again it should sustain 400-600lm. I dont know exact lumens=runtime as with optics you get a large hot spot. Its more a case of ramping to an output you need and finding one that is enough and can be sustained if makes sense. 600lm, 1000lm, 1500lm are just figures. You may find 350lm enough..................you may need 1300lm for your application. Either way, it will out perform the ultafire light in runtime/output. However, depending on the beam type you require, it may not be the most suitable light. The c2 is more like the D1 than D4 , relfector base and if you need a more traditional type beam, focused hot spot and spill...............check the D1/D1vn out.

D1 on the left






Still a compact light(smaller than your C2 ) with around 1500-1600lm , ramping UI the same as the D4. 




The 5000k xpl HI is nice!




D1 is better suited for moderate and further distances, D4 is more suited for closer applications.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 26, 2017)

D4 would be a great light for a body mod, the hard part is already done with the compact head, just give it a helmet mount with a corona of cooling fins and a good flush contact for heat and neg contact, glans and cable to battery pack on back of helmet, or affix the whole thing to the bike. 
With that beam spread, the light head and cooling fins could be off center, orient the switch right next to a gear shifter. 

Also, since 18350 battery tubes are inexpensive and available, there's the rest of the hard part already done. Butcher a few of them till you've got a working finned helmet or bike adapter...


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 26, 2017)

It won't actually maintain 400 lumens constantly, but rather the output will gradually decline with battery voltage because of PWM-modulated FET controlling it. The link I posted a couple lines up shows what should be a fairly typical curve. However, you can just ramp up the brightness a bit more if it's getting dim towards the end of your ride.


----------



## ven (Oct 26, 2017)

True, you get a good 1hr 30m of 350lm down to 250lm(eyes wont be able to tell the small drop over that time)on that specific chart(not sure how exact it is in actual lumens).


----------



## fneuf (Oct 26, 2017)

Thanks for all your replies guys!
Is the D1 more able to maintain a specific level than the D4?
A Zebralight, while definitively more costly, could be a better choice for constant light output rather than an Emisar?


----------



## staticx57 (Oct 26, 2017)

It is not, they both use the same driver and only has the ability to regulate up to 350ma which is somewhere in the neighborhood of 125 lumens. The D4 might be ever so efficient as 4 emitters spreading that load is slightly better but not noticeably so at these drive levels.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 26, 2017)

Correct, although the Zebralight doesn't come close in terms of peak output, the more sophisticated driver is much more capable of maintaining a steady output, as long as it stays cool.

There's graphs in this review showing that. Most of the test graphs are recorded with a fan on the light.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...650)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-VIDEO-and-more!


----------



## staticx57 (Oct 26, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> Correct, although the Zebralight doesn't come close in terms of peak output, the more sophisticated driver is much more capable of maintaining a steady output, as long as it stays cool.
> 
> There's graphs in this review showing that. Most of the test graphs are recorded with a fan on the light.
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...650)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-VIDEO-and-more!



You might say the D4 has the more sophisticated driver as it can do both regulation and direct drive where as the Zebralight can only do regulation


----------



## Tachead (Oct 26, 2017)

staticx57 said:


> You might say the D4 has the more sophisticated driver as it can do both regulation and direct drive where as the Zebralight can only do regulation



Direct drive. Sophisticated lights stopped using that back in the 90's.


----------



## JordanK (Oct 27, 2017)

Now that I've played with my D4 (Nichia 219CT 90CRI, 5000K) for a few days, here are my top 10 observations:



The 18350 tube makes for a better EDC for carrying in your pocket. The light is darn sexy with the short tube.
Running an Aspire 18350, the output is lower than with an 18650 but you can run it on full for close to a minute before it gets too hot to hold.
Loosen the tailcap or lock the D4 (6 clicks) before putting it in your pocket unless you want a hole accidentally burnt through your pants and/or your leg.
Don't even briefly glance at the lit end when on full power...Doh! (I bet everyone has done this at least once...hehe)
Full power inside the house pisses off your wife!
Two fully charged Sony VTC5A's or two Aspire 18350's isn't enough for a night out 
The new definition of moonlight mode is "low enough to stare at the lit end"
Might need a second one.
The UI on the D4 is so good it makes all my other lights boring.
Still wondering if I can light matches or start a campfire with this beast.

Happy Friday!

Jordan


----------



## Agpp (Oct 27, 2017)

Tachead said:


> Direct drive. Sophisticated lights stopped using that back in the 90's.



I certainly wouldn't say that D4 has a more sophisticated driver than Zebra.
But I wouldn't say it has a worse one. These are just tuned differently.
Zebra is nearly all about efficiency.
D4 driver is about a nice compromise between efficiency, price, size and output with a strong emphasis on output.

That said, I'd love to see a good buck + FET driver to get a good mix of efficiency and peak output, though for a high price.
About as efficient as Zebra (maybe more because xhp35 efficacy ain't great).
Slightly better output than D4 (because D4 FET could be better).
Similar size to Zebra (and larger than D4).
Higher price than either though....


----------



## noboneshotdog (Oct 27, 2017)

Agpp said:


> I certainly wouldn't say that D4 has a more sophisticated driver than Zebra.
> But I wouldn't say it has a worse one. These are just tuned differently.
> Zebra is nearly all about efficiency.
> D4 driver is about a nice compromise between efficiency, price, size and output with a strong emphasis on output.
> ...



I'd buy that!


----------



## tom6 (Oct 27, 2017)

The tube for 18350 battery is the same for D1 and D4?


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 27, 2017)

noboneshotdog said:


> I'd buy that!


You would buy anything! LOL
Just kidding [emoji6]


----------



## staticx57 (Oct 27, 2017)

tom6 said:


> The tube for 18350 battery is the same for D1 and D4?


Yes


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 27, 2017)

staticx57 said:


> You might say the D4 has the more sophisticated driver as it can do both regulation and direct drive where as the Zebralight can only do regulation



My comment about the sophistication of the Zebralight driver is not a knock against the D4. They each have different specializations.

The beauty of the D4 is in a way it's simplicity - not much gets in the way of electricity flowing between the battery and the emitter, and what is there is apparently all high quality stuff. That said, it also is a good feature in my opinion that the 7135 regulator was added for low power use, too.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 27, 2017)

I'd buy it, for multiple lights.


----------



## blah9 (Oct 27, 2017)

Well my D4vn with XPG PDT LEDs came in the other day and I can compare it to the D4 with Nichia LEDs. I think I prefer the XPG PDT version because it's still fairly floody but also has a good amount of throw. It definitely makes me not feel like I need to crank up the brightness quite as much which will make the battery last longer. I like both of them, but I'm probably going to primarily carry the D4vn.

It also came with an interesting paint job. It's green but textured rather than being smooth. I really like it! Gives a nice grip.


----------



## MAD777 (Oct 27, 2017)

For indoors, I prefer D4 Nichia 219c,but for outdoor use, I prefer D4vn XPG2-PDT. Vinh's XPG2-PDT is warmer than the Nichia 5000K.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 27, 2017)

My black N219C version finally came today. Despite being incorrectly addressed, the post office got it to the right mailbox.

This is definitely a brilliant light, literally and figuratively, and the 5000K 219C's just exude clarity.

Unfortunately, it's my first 18650 powered light. I don't know how I'll be able to maintain realistic expectations for the format in the future!

After all the rave reviews for the light, I'm happy to say it is not disappointing. As soon as I had tried it out briefly, I put my spare battery on the charger, because I know I will need the opportunity to play some more tonight.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 28, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> My black N219C version finally came today. Despite being incorrectly addressed, the post office got it to the right mailbox.
> 
> This is definitely a brilliant light, literally and figuratively, and the 5000K 219C's just exude clarity.
> 
> ...



I bet you'll come to appreciate more humble and long running, regulated 18650 powered lights in the future. 
For a really good, functional comparison with the Emisar's driver, 
consider saving for an 18650 Zebralight next.

I haven't had the pleasure of messing with an SC600, but after receiving an Emisar D1 neutral HI, and seeing some useful comparison pictures, I'm really happy with a D1 neutral HI and an H600Fw (with headband and clip) as an all purpose combo.

D4 and H600F (floody) are remarkably close in beam pattern, the D4 of course can dump 4x more lumens and amps at once, and has infinite ramping, but the H600F has programmable levels that get me right to where I'm ramping to with the D4 anyway, to around the 1000 lumens mark that is.


----------



## ven (Oct 28, 2017)

ZL's , some quite a bit more compact than the D4 which impresses me quite a bit. In fact, even now i still can not get over how compact ZL's actually are. Its crazy! Although not a direct comparison, i find both lights fit different roles for me personally. Both can certainly be justified in ones flashlight family/collection/tools. The xhp35 4500k is very nice, very bright as well! 






Compared to 16340 fed Haiku





Decent amount of light, sipping frugally at the mah, ZL have to be considered for a compact long lasting light tool, an actual EDC light that runs on 18650 fuel for me. I do carry other 18650 lights (EDC), but for me ZL have changed the game.





Although not as efficient on higher levels(over 140), the D4 is still a force to be reckoned with. Its more of a crazy WOW light, but can still be used as a tool. As long as you dont ramp too far,(DCD) double click disorder  is kept under control(yeh right!) Then for me it can be a very useful tool, UI works great in many applications(work or play).

IMO it more than likely wont replace a zebralight for ZL fans, but it could make a great companion................Maybe similar in looks/style in ways, but beams,LED choices and UI are different enough to justify several of each.


----------



## Tachead (Oct 28, 2017)

I think that although the D4 is a cool light, ZL is a much more practical option for EDC with their better quality materials, much tougher anodizing, lighter weight, smaller size, no PWM, full regulation, potted electronics, and warranty. But, ZL is kind of in a different class and you pay for it. Sometimes "budget lights" have their appeal. I know personally I would be much less crushed if I accidentally damaged or lost a $40 D4 which could subjectivity make it a better beater/work light.


----------



## blah9 (Oct 28, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> For indoors, I prefer D4 Nichia 219c,but for outdoor use, I prefer D4vn XPG2-PDT. Vinh's XPG2-PDT is warmer than the Nichia 5000K.



Yes, that's a fair assessment. Indoors the floodier beam is pretty nice when looking at something closeup. The D4vn isn't too narrow still though, so if I have to grab just one light and don't know what the situation will be then I'll probably just take the D4vn with me.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 30, 2017)

eh4 said:


> I bet you'll come to appreciate more humble and long running, regulated 18650 powered lights in the future.
> For a really good, functional comparison with the Emisar's driver,
> consider saving for an 18650 Zebralight next.



I've got the savings for it, but I'm forcing myself to be disciplined. For the present time, my high output, long runtime needs are met.

Actually, I originally figured when the mark IV Zebralights come out, I'd get an SC600w. The D4 being available with Nichia emitters, which I knew meet my expectations for color rendering, at half the price and with a very well liked UI, altered that plan. I still would like to get one eventually - regulated output and knowing what my light level is are also features I really appreciate. The D4 makes it a bit too easy sometimes to just ramp up as much as you want and burn through battery life in a hurry. Whenever a Zebralight might finally happen for me, I'm sure both lights will see plenty of use.


----------



## oKtosiTe (Oct 30, 2017)

ven said:


> Decent amount of light, sipping frugally at the mah, ZL have to be considered for a compact long lasting light tool, an actual EDC light that runs on 18650 fuel for me. I do carry other 18650 lights (EDC), but* for me ZL have changed the game*.
> 
> IMO it more than likely wont replace a zebralight for ZL fans, but it could make a great companion................Maybe similar in looks/style in ways, but beams,LED choices and UI are different enough to justify several of each.



I just ordered my D4 a few days ago, so it will be a little while before I have it in my hands, but I fully agree about the Zebralights.
I've bought a number of lights before (Nitecore, 4Sevens, Fenix, Olight), but nothing I've seen or heard of combines output, runtime, reliability and practicality as well as my SC600-III's do. As a visually impaired person I need access to a lot of lumens, something I can easily carry around with me, something that easily gives me the right amount of light without blinding me, but most of all I *need* to be able to rely on my flashlight. Zebralight gets this balance just right, IMHO.
The D4 will serve a niche use, but I have no illusions about it replacing the Zebralights for EDC. Perhaps I'll now start carrying a D4 and an SC600-III instead of two SC600-III's. Just to get that full blast when I need it.


----------



## ven (Oct 30, 2017)

oKtosiTe said:


> I just ordered my D4 a few days ago, so it will be a little while before I have it in my hands, but I fully agree about the Zebralights.
> I've bought a number of lights before (Nitecore, 4Sevens, Fenix, Olight), but nothing I've seen or heard of combines output, runtime, reliability and practicality as well as my SC600-III's do. As a visually impaired person I need access to a lot of lumens, something I can easily carry around with me, something that easily gives me the right amount of light without blinding me, but most of all I *need* to be able to rely on my flashlight. Zebralight gets this balance just right, IMHO.
> The D4 will serve a niche use, but I have no illusions about it replacing the Zebralights for EDC. Perhaps I'll now start carrying a D4 and an SC600-III instead of two SC600-III's. Just to get that full blast when I need it.



You will not be disappointed, in fact you should be very impressed imho. The UI is super user friendly and fast ramping, with short cuts to high(double click), low and even the 350ma level of around 140lm.........ish(lock out lock in). But as it only takes 2.5s to go from less than a lumen to near 4000...............it feels about perfect for me in speed. The size looks similar to the 600 so should not feel too out of place in your pocket/coat. The step downs are not as "elegant" as the almost impossible to see zebra's, but the step downs have to be aggressive due to the crazy output and heat to keep under control. Its a fun light, hard not to really like this pocket beast..............nit picking of course you can find little gripes, maybe body too smooth and can feel slippy(no big deal), lack of decent clip............OR /Prometheus clip.


----------



## CarpentryHero (Oct 30, 2017)

Nice find, I really shouldn’t have looked at this cause now I ordered one 😂


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 30, 2017)

ven said:


> The UI is super user friendly and fast ramping, with short cuts to high(double click), low and even the 350ma level of around 140lm.........ish(lock out lock in). But as it only takes 2.5s to go from less than a lumen to near 4000...............it feels about perfect for me in speed. The size looks similar to the 600 so should not feel too out of place in your pocket/coat.



I agree. I thought 2.5 seconds to go full range sounded too fast, but it's actually very easy to stop at an appropriate amount of light for a situation. I do wish there were a more elegant way to get reliably to the 350mA level (approximately known output and runtime), but it's not a major omission. After spending a weekend with it, I'm not sure I'm going to bother with the hassle of reflashing the firmware to add this feature.

The small size was a pleasant surprise. I knew the dimensions when I ordered it, of course, but it still was distinctly smaller than I was expecting. It's bigger than I like to EDC, but not unreasonable. I'm really picky about having any bulk in my pocket, so the fact that I'd even consider pocket carrying the D4 means the size is very reasonable.

I have a smooth finish version, and don't find it too smooth at all. Grip might not be quite as good as a knurled body, but the pocket clip grooves and tail cap are sufficient for me to feel like I have a good hold on it. It smooth without really feeling slippery.


----------



## ven (Oct 30, 2017)

I have one for work, couple at home of the D4, D1 again, one at work and one at home...............cant be too bad. In time there will be lots of firmware tweaks , but sometimes simple works for me. I find how it is(can not please everyone anyway) is a good happy medium. In fact, its pretty much perfect imo, would be good to have another mode where you could set levels. So the ramping UI, then X clicks for another group where you can pre select up to 6 levels and set each one via the ramp to your choice of level(if makes sense, similar to the h17f in ways). Still i love the firmware as it is..............


----------



## eh4 (Oct 30, 2017)

The cool HI version of the D4 is supposed to be the most throwy of the varieties, for what it's worth I'm finding the cool HI beam pattern to be very similar to the beam pattern of the reflector + frosted lens "floody" ZL H600Fw.


----------



## ven (Oct 30, 2017)

If you want more "throwy", try the D4vn eh4 if not already, the xp-g2 PDT does reach out a good bit, spill is tighter with a large hotspot. Colour temp 5000-550k ish so cool side of neutral


----------



## Tachead (Oct 30, 2017)

You can also swap the optic for the Carclo 10621 if you want more throw. It should increase it a bit and tighten up the hotspot.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 30, 2017)

That's interesting about the optic swap, a very easy mod indeed. 
I got the D4 for a specific use as an optical blaster at phone booth and car seat distances, I don't need it to throw any better or have a more pleasing tint, it's a demoralizer/phaser and the high glare, cool white is perfect for what it needs to be, and the high/ momentary setting makes it practical for this use.

I've got other lights for actually enjoying seeing with, and I'm waiting on a D1vn XPG2 PDT for a small handful of big throw. ;-)


----------



## Agpp (Oct 31, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> I agree. I thought 2.5 seconds to go full range sounded too fast, but it's actually very easy to stop at an appropriate amount of light for a situation. I do wish there were a more elegant way to get reliably to the 350mA level (approximately known output and runtime), but it's not a major omission. After spending a weekend with it, I'm not sure I'm going to bother with the hassle of reflashing the firmware to add this feature.
> 
> The small size was a pleasant surprise. I knew the dimensions when I ordered it, of course, but it still was distinctly smaller than I was expecting. It's bigger than I like to EDC, but not unreasonable. I'm really picky about having any bulk in my pocket, so the fact that I'd even consider pocket carrying the D4 means the size is very reasonable.
> 
> I have a smooth finish version, and don't find it too smooth at all. Grip might not be quite as good as a knurled body, but the pocket clip grooves and tail cap are sufficient for me to feel like I have a good hold on it. It smooth without really feeling slippery.



Yeah...experience with this UI is by far the largest reason why I don't see myself buying a Zebra in the foreseeable future.


----------



## eh4 (Oct 31, 2017)

Zebras are great value lights, I've been playing with Emisar UI so much, the one problem I'm having is that the Emisar turn on delay before ramping up begins is just short enough that it's throwing off my long practiced ZL UI timing, and I keep letting off the button too soon and hitting high instead of low with the ZL, - that never happened before D1 and D4 arrived. 
Since it's open source, ZL would be crazy to not incorporate the great ramping UI, something as simple as click, click-hold would be sufficient to swap between preset level UI and ramping. 
If only the timing between them were standard, I wouldn't at all mind an extra .25 second from on before ramping up with the Emisars.


----------



## eraursls1984 (Oct 31, 2017)

eh4 said:


> Zebras are great value lights, I've been playing with Emisar UI so much, the one problem I'm having is that the Emisar turn on delay before ramping up begins is just short enough that it's throwing off my long practiced ZL UI timing, and I keep letting off the button too soon and hitting high instead of low with the ZL, - that never happened before D1 and D4 arrived.
> Since it's open source, ZL would be crazy to not incorporate the great ramping UI, something as simple as click, click-hold would be sufficient to swap between preset level UI and ramping.
> If only the timing between them were standard, I wouldn't at all mind an extra .25 second from on before ramping up with the Emisars.


I'm thinking of the new Zebralight UI with the G5, G6, and G7. Ramping could be G8. Zebralights also have a lot more modes so it could be even smoother ramping (not that it isn't already). I would just like the ramping to be a little bit slower.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 31, 2017)

Tachead said:


> You can also swap the optic for the Carclo 10621 if you want more throw. It should increase it a bit and tighten up the hotspot.



According to Carlco's website, the 10621 is almost identical to the 10622. I was actually puzzled enough I looked at the drawings for both and couldn't see what the difference is. For the example of the 219c, they rate the former as throwing 3.5 Cd/lm versus the latter at 3.3 Cd/lm. From the simulated beam cross section, it appears the 10621 reduces the spill a tiny amount.

Meanwhile, they rate the 10622 with the XP-G2 at 4.8 Cd/lm.

The medium spot, frosted 10623, to compare the floody alternative, is 1.9 Cd/lm.


----------



## TCY (Oct 31, 2017)

eh4 said:


> Zebras are great value lights, I've been playing with Emisar UI so much, the one problem I'm having is that the Emisar turn on delay before ramping up begins is just short enough that it's throwing off my long practiced ZL UI timing, and I keep letting off the button too soon and hitting high instead of low with the ZL, - that never happened before D1 and D4 arrived.
> Since it's open source, ZL would be crazy to not incorporate the great ramping UI, something as simple as click, click-hold would be sufficient to swap between preset level UI and ramping.
> If only the timing between them were standard, I wouldn't at all mind an extra .25 second from on before ramping up with the Emisars.



Even if their 18650 lines have adequate memory for a whole new set of UI we will need to wait for at least a whole year for their MKV lights to hit the market. ZL had to drop 14500 support on their SC53 & H53 line to squeeze in the new UI so I doubt their AA lines would have enough memory left for the extra ramping UI.


----------



## Tachead (Oct 31, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> According to Carlco's website, the 10621 is almost identical to the 10622. I was actually puzzled enough I looked at the drawings for both and couldn't see what the difference is. For the example of the 219c, they rate the former as throwing 3.5 Cd/lm versus the latter at 3.3 Cd/lm. From the simulated beam cross section, it appears the 10621 reduces the spill a tiny amount.
> 
> Meanwhile, they rate the 10622 with the XP-G2 at 4.8 Cd/lm.
> 
> The medium spot, frosted 10623, to compare the floody alternative, is 1.9 Cd/lm.



The 10621 definitely produces a tighter beam then the 10622. 

Here is a thread that shows the difference...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Quad-XP-G2-vs-219-Reference-tint-comparisons


----------



## iamlucky13 (Oct 31, 2017)

Tachead said:


> The 10621 definitely produces a tighter beam then the 10622.
> 
> Here is a thread that shows the difference...
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Quad-XP-G2-vs-219-Reference-tint-comparisons



Good comparison. I think it is still consistent with what Carlco claims - the 10621 has less spill, but it's not clear that it is significantly different in peak intensity. Maybe a little bit more, but the hotspot is also more even? It's hard to tell where the light from the reduced spill is showing up exactly.


----------



## waynestractor (Nov 15, 2017)

I just ordered a D4 with the Nichia. I originally tried to order through Mountain Electronics but wouldn't allow me without signing up first, but after a couple days it still wasn't approved so I couldn't order. I found intl-outdoor.com so ordered from them. Is this normal with Mountain, seems odd to me to have to wait for approval before being able to order, luckily there are always other options.


----------



## ma tumba (Nov 20, 2017)

Eventually received mine from intl outdoors. Well, I am pleasantly surprized.

1. This is my first 219C light and I am very happy about the tint, I so much prefer it to a typical 219b which is too pink for my taste in most cases.
2. This is my first quad and I found that it opened an unexpected option. I always wanted to remove optics from my triples, but a triple makes too pronounced "lobes" which I failed to smooth out with Phaseburn's a diffusion film (more capable films introduced some sorts of tint shifts). The quad's lobes are much less obvious and the film smoothes them out just fine. The result is a mule like beam profile which has some added lux. I think that this is just that perfect beam profile I have been looking for my EDC light. I carry that optics in my EDC pouch so I can easily put it back in just in case I need some real throw.
3. D4 is *exactly* as long as my HDC rotary. That is amazing given the 18650 it has inside.

To sum up, despite some minor complaints regarding the driver in its current state and the clip, this D4 is going to be my EDC, for some time at leasts.


----------



## JAS (Nov 21, 2017)

I just found out about this light this morning. I have been looking for a nice cap light. Would this be suitable for that? Does it come with a clip and, if so, is the clip oriented the correct way for use on a baseball cap?


----------



## ma tumba (Nov 21, 2017)

The stock clip is one way, so you'd need a two-way replacement. Plus my 18650 version would be way too hefty for me to comfortably wear on the beak of my cap. The 18350 version does not come with a clip


----------



## iamlucky13 (Nov 21, 2017)

ma tumba said:


> EThe quad's lobes are much less obvious and the film smoothes them out just fine.



I knew about the lobes before buying, and was a bit concerned they'd be obnoxious, but in practice, I hardly notice them at all unless I rotate the light. It's rather interesting how suddenly they seem to appear like propellers if I do that, but then once I stop and look away for a moment, I stop noticing them again.

I have no idea if they can be shipped to Russia, but I've read that Mountain Electronics has a compatible MCPCB available where each solder pad is at a slightly different angle. For whatever reason, this reportedly further reduces the lobes. It is a bit thinner than the stock, however, so a thicker o-ring is supposed to be used if installed in the D4 to press the front lens and optic properly in place.

I think this is the MCPCB:
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63_64&product_id=849

You've probably already seen that some folks are trying the floodier 10623 optic in their D4's. I don't know if that would be better or about the same as your diffusion film.


----------



## ma tumba (Nov 21, 2017)

@Iamlucky13, thanks for suggesting this pcb. 


I just wanted to clarify my point re the lobes. I had removed the optics altogether wanting to get a mule. In this case each of the 4 leds produced a circle of light. The lobes come from the intersections of these circles. It was this complex beam structure that I smoothed out by means of the film.

I completely agree that unless one intentionally begins to rotate the light, even those optics-free lobes are quite tolerable, that is why btw the A2 is so useable with its 3 leds.

I got the frosted optics along with the clear one but eventually preferred the flexibility of the clear+film combo


----------



## iamlucky13 (Nov 21, 2017)

Ok, I see what you're saying. Interesting to know.


----------



## Nev (Nov 21, 2017)

ma tumba said:


> The stock clip is one way, so you'd need a two-way replacement. Plus my 18650 version would be way too hefty for me to comfortably wear on the beak of my cap. The 18350 version does not come with a clip



The clip can be reversed , there is a groove at the top and bottom of the battery tube so you can have it either way.
Same for the D1.


----------



## boo (Nov 27, 2017)

The reviews on MTN. Electronics may be suspect. I think the are only posting positive reviews and discarding any negative comments.
I posted that the Quad 4 gets too hot too fast on turbo. Mtn. Electronics did not post my review.
I do like the flashlight but, be aware, it gets hot fast. The turbo setting cannot be used for very long.


----------



## Cobraman502 (Nov 27, 2017)

boo said:


> The reviews on MTN. Electronics may be suspect. I think the are only posting positive reviews and discarding any negative comments.
> I posted that the Quad 4 gets too hot too fast on turbo. Mtn. Electronics did not post my review.
> I do like the flashlight but, be aware, it gets hot fast. The turbo setting cannot be used for very long.



Which version xpl hi or nichia? I know for sure nichia get hot quick and xpl hi heat much slower and don’t get as hot.


----------



## ven (Nov 27, 2017)

boo, its widely known it gets hot fast, in fact i cant think of any light that gets hotter faster than the D4(certainly the 219c). Its near 4000lm, size of a ZL 600 series.................its crazy! Also for $40 its a lot of light, decent driver UI with lots of features. Decent components to boot, your getting a lot for your money! .............
For any duration, output needs to be limited nearer 500- 600lm ish as with any or most single 18650 lights. Its a hot rod, fun hand held sun flashlight. Enjoy it for what it is, if you need 4000lm for minutes and not seconds, a jump in size to pop can is needed.


----------



## stfc69 (Nov 27, 2017)

Isn't there a warning on the International Outdoors website about the high heat output? Not sure about Mountain Electronics though.

I've just received my 5th D4/D1, this one is a 4000k XP-G2, fantastic tint :thumbsup:


----------



## Keitho (Nov 27, 2017)

In my mind, a warning about the heat on this light is just as silly as a warning about the heat generated by a hand-held lighter (that is, for either one, if you use it properly, you won't get burned, and if you use it foolishly, you can hurt yourself; with the out-of-the-box Emisar D4 settings, unlike a lighter, it is very difficult to start a fire). But, Intl-outdoor says this on the product page:

"WARNING...Emisar D4 puts a high lumen output but generates a lot of heat at the same time"

Mtn-electronics doesn't have a warning on their product page. While I don't think that pain and suffering are a fair consequence for foolish usage of the lights (or any other product), I do have to admit that I get a fair bit of satisfaction when I hear of or see a rare instance when someone actually has to deal with a consequence for their uninformed action.


----------



## Cobraman502 (Nov 27, 2017)

Keitho said:


> In my mind, a warning about the heat on this light is just as silly as a warning about the heat generated by a hand-held lighter (that is, for either one, if you use it properly, you won't get burned, and if you use it foolishly, you can hurt yourself; with the out-of-the-box Emisar D4 settings, unlike a lighter, it is very difficult to start a fire). But, Intl-outdoor says this on the product page:
> 
> "WARNING...Emisar D4 puts a high lumen output but generates a lot of heat at the same time"
> 
> Mtn-electronics doesn't have a warning on their product page. While I don't think that pain and suffering are a fair consequence for foolish usage of the lights (or any other product), I do have to admit that I get a fair bit of satisfaction when I hear of or see a rare instance when someone actually has to deal with a consequence for their uninformed action.



Lol I enjoy it as well. Some people just should stick to aa or d sized lights if they are gonna cry.


----------



## stfc69 (Nov 27, 2017)

I think most people who buy the D4 will be fully aware of it's limitations...


----------



## SG1 (Nov 27, 2017)

Lights I have: Klarus xt11 600lms, Klarus xt11GT 1600lms, Acebeam L16 (doesn’t work after drop on concret) 1700lms, Zebralight SC52w 500lms (I count on this light👍), Sunwayman T20C 440lms, Maglite 3D Cell 145lms...

My previous EDC was the zebra, the one that has taken its place is....

EMISAR D4 219C with newer CRI rating. +93. Long story short, thislight is the best $40 I have spent in the years I’ve collected LED lights. I think I’m spoiled with Nichia leds at this point. The User interface is the most intuitive, SIMPLE STUPID I’ve seen as well.


----------



## boo (Nov 27, 2017)

You know it all s can jump down off your soap box now. I`m sure everyone appreciates your superior knowledge.
I cannot post what i`m really thinking.


----------



## SG1 (Nov 28, 2017)

Boo, 

it sounds to me like you have Had a negative experience with the Emisar D4. Like Ven and many other Knowledable CPF/BLF forum members have said, the light WILL get HOT if ran continuously on Turbo, especially with 219C leds. 99.9 % of the time, i use the regulated output below 150 lumens for general lighting use And seldom use the higher output to conserve battery life. MY experience may be different than yours so please chime in. Maybe your light was DOA? Something wrong with the firmware? Did you burn yourself? Please explain the deficiency your having, but don’t knock the light and the perspective of others and their input on it.


----------



## boo (Nov 28, 2017)

If you will reread my post, I said I LIKE the light. My post was to simply inform potential new buyers that the light gets very hot on turbo and cannot be ran that way for long.
It was no big deal. Just a simple heads up. I did not expect people to jump down my throat. Once a person learns to use the light at half throttle, and use turbo sparingly. then all is good.


----------



## Tachead (Nov 28, 2017)

boo said:


> If you will reread my post, I said I LIKE the light. My post was to simply inform potential new buyers that the light gets very hot on turbo and cannot be ran that way for long.
> It was no big deal. Just a simple heads up. I did not expect people to jump down my throat. Once a person learns to use the light at half throttle, and use turbo sparingly. then all is good.



Keep in mind the light is thermally regulated so you can use Turbo as long as you want. It will step down as needed to keep the lights temperature within a safe range. You can even set the thermal threshold lower if you want the light to step down sooner/more aggressively to keep it cooler.


----------



## ven (Nov 28, 2017)

Apologies for any offence boo, none intended. I just presumed with the crazy output and small form factor, buyers would be aware of the heat generated(and one should never presume ).

Either way, i hope you carry on enjoying it and it grow on you more. Who knows, you may be tempted with the D1 and D1s which complement the D4 very well. Also these can handle the heat a lot better being single LED and a little larger in size(especially the D1s).


----------



## 18650 (Nov 29, 2017)

boo said:


> If you will reread my post, I said I LIKE the light. My post was to simply inform potential new buyers that the light gets very hot on turbo and cannot be ran that way for long. It was no big deal. Just a simple heads up. I did not expect people to jump down my throat. Once a person learns to use the light at half throttle, and use turbo sparingly. then all is good.


 It's billed and sold as a hot rod. The target consumer should be aware and familiar with the problems and limitations beforehand.


----------



## boo (Nov 29, 2017)

ven said:


> Apologies for any offence boo, none intended. I just presumed with the crazy output and small form factor, buyers would be aware of the heat generated(and one should never presume ).
> 
> Either way, i hope you carry on enjoying it and it grow on you more. Who knows, you may be tempted with the D1 and D1s which complement the D4 very well. Also these can handle the heat a lot better being single LED and a little larger in size(especially the D1s).



Thanks for the kind words, Ven.


----------



## SG1 (Nov 30, 2017)

Well I’m glad you like the light boo👍 I do too and I think the Emisar D4 is in a niche market all itself. Has anyone done runtime tests of this light before it hits FET drive? I’m aware it ramps and that there is not defined preset modes. Thanks for everyone’s input.


----------



## boo (Dec 6, 2017)

Excuse my ignorance but, I have two questions about the Emisar lights. First, if I decided to order another light and preferred the cool or bright light, which should I choose?.
The one I own now has a yellow/orange tint to it. I prefer cool white.
The other question is, why are some priced $18. more than the others?.
I own about five LED flash lights but, my knowledge is limited.
Thanks boo


----------



## Cobraman502 (Dec 6, 2017)

boo said:


> Excuse my ignorance but, I have two questions about the Emisar lights. First, if I decided to order another light and preferred the cool or bright light, which should I choose?.
> The one I own now has a yellow/orange tint to it. I prefer cool white.
> The other question is, why are some priced $18. more than the others?.
> I own about five LED flash lights but, my knowledge is limited.
> Thanks boo



1. Nichia 219C 5000K 90+ CRI - Neutral White

2. Cree XP-G2 S4 2B ~ 5700K - Cool White

3. Cree XP-G2 S4 3D ~5000K - Neutral White

3. Cree XP-G2 S4 5D ~4000K - Neutral / Warm White

4. Cree XP-L HI 1A ~6500K - Cool White

5. Cree XP-L HI 3A ~5000K - Neutral White

6. Cree XP-L HI 5D ~4000K - Neutral White

I bought the xpl hi 3a in neural white.


----------



## ven (Dec 7, 2017)

I really like the clean beam of the 219c 5000k, yes the hottest of the choices but no deal killer for me. If i need 3800lm for more than 15s i will use a larger light. Its nice to have for that little blast, but once the WOW bit has been done, i am happy with 100-200lm for general use. So personally, colour temp and CRI comes before running for a few seconds longer at max(everyone has different preferences).

The cool white boo looks quite nice(for a cool white, i am not really a cool white guy and prefer a more neutral temp). So i would look at the 5000k HI and 6500k HI, also would not rule out the 219c 5000k either. 

4000k(presume you have this with you saying yellow/orange) is towards the warm side, 5000k is to my eyes still cool, but not too cool/blue. 6500k for my eyes is too cold, can wash out some colours which in some lights not a problem, but floody close up type i like 4000-5000k more(subjective and just my taste).

The HI are more expensive due to the HI emitters costing a few $ more each.............pretty much as simple as that iirc.

I like the 4000k xp-g2 at night, the little warmth is very easy on my tired eyes! If my eyes have been "contaminated" with a cooler light, it can make my brain think its warmer than it is. I think its worth while with certain colour temps, to spend some time just with that specific light and get use to the temp.


----------



## archimedes (Dec 7, 2017)

Just received the D4 (and D1) mostly just to check out the UI ... and because @ven has been raving about it for a while now[emoji317]

Chose the XP-L HI 5D ~4000K and, wow, what a nice tint (!)

Very very good user interface, extremely intuitive. I do wish, perhaps unsurprisingly, it had a (much) lower low[emoji14]

They got the ramping speed so right and so smooth.

I'm sure it has been discussed, but what is indicated by the mid-ramp blink ? Current ? Output ? Switch over to FET ?


----------



## ven (Dec 7, 2017)

Boo, if you have not tried a D1 out yet, would look at one of those to complement your D4. Of course the same UI(if you like it win win), xpl HI in 4000/5000 and 6500k flavours. I find it a pretty useful beam for a thrower, decent usable spill and a nice moderate throw beam. Just a thought...............


----------



## archimedes (Dec 7, 2017)

Was the D1 available in the same emitters as the D4 ?

When I purchased, the warmest option for the D1 was XP-L HI V2 3A (a frosty white tint, and too cool for my preference)


----------



## ven (Dec 7, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Was the D1 available in the same emitters as the D4 ?
> 
> When I purchased, the warmest option for the D1 was XP-L HI V2 3A (a frosty white tint, and too cool for my preference)



Kind of , the D1 has the single xpl HI 4000k(now available on the D4), 5000k and 6500k. As i am sure your aware, the 4000k xpl HI is super nice! 

I have the 5000k D1 as the options were only the said and 6500k. Since then Hank has added 4000k to the options. I also have the D1vn which is the sst40 6500k, very cool(more a pure white), but an awesome high output beam. I am sure it just pips the xpl HI in throw, but bumps the lumens from around 1300 to 2300.................very noticable in the larger hot spot and brighter spill. Would be awesome for a 4000 and 5000k sst40..............


----------



## staticx57 (Dec 8, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Just received the D4 (and D1) mostly just to check out the UI ... and because @ven has been raving about it for a while now[emoji317]
> 
> Chose the XP-L HI 5D ~4000K and, wow, what a nice tint (!)
> 
> ...



It blinks in 3 spots. One is turn on to let you know it is at the top of the regulated output. If you ramp up it will blink again when it gets to full FET output and if you ramp down you will go past full regulated and get a blink(same blink point as before) and ramp down more you will get another blink to let you know it is at minimum. You can see the blink points in the UI flowchart. Top, middle and bottom


----------



## archimedes (Dec 8, 2017)

What drive current at the mid-ramp blink ?


----------



## staticx57 (Dec 8, 2017)

It maxes at 350ma at full regulation. Afterwards it is FET+single 7135 then finally on max it is FET only which would mean the emitters+cell would determine the drive current.


----------



## archimedes (Dec 9, 2017)

Thanks static


----------



## ven (Dec 9, 2017)

+1 
What i do find useful archimedes, is the lock out, lock in(so undo tail cap a couple of mm, then lock cap up again, 2 blinks ) , the 350ma level(roughly equivalent to 140lm + or - ) is a good do it all level. In work, it is a nice level that is regulated, no heat issue, just enough light to be usable in pretty much most applications(for me as i know many like super low lows). At home i find a nice level also, granted its not ideal for a middle of the night level.............too bright. But that is no problem either, just press hold to get to min level which can be memorised prior to any potential middle of the night requirements. 

Glad your enjoying the light, IMO it has to be a contender(if there was one) for the flashlight of 2017! Bang for buck, UI, form and flexibility..............this light has it all. May not be the best at everything, but it is certainly good at most


----------



## SuperCals (Dec 9, 2017)

I just received my D4, xpl Hi v2 3a. I am really pleased with the D4. What a pocket rocket so much fun to play around with.


----------



## eh4 (Dec 9, 2017)

Speaking of using the "tail cap lockout" to set output to 350mA, I don't end up using the tail cap at all, but loosen and tighten at the head, one handed. 
It's easy and the light stays in ready to use position. 
Also I've got some bicycle inner tube over the tail cap to make it feasible to grip with my teeth.


----------



## noboneshotdog (Dec 9, 2017)

eh4 said:


> Speaking of using the "tail cap lockout" to set output to 350mA, I don't end up using the tail cap at all, but loosen and tighten at the head, one handed.
> It's easy and the light stays in ready to use position.
> Also I've got some bicycle inner tube over the tail cap to make it feasible to grip with my teeth.



My goodness! You must be EXTREMELY flexible to be able to get you light out of your pocket with your teeth!


----------



## Cobraman502 (Dec 9, 2017)

noboneshotdog said:


> My goodness! You must be EXTREMELY flexible to be able to get you light out of your pocket with your teeth!



Bahahahaha, that’s what I was trying to visualize.


----------



## eh4 (Dec 9, 2017)

lol, 
I also put two layers of inner tube on the bezel end to minimize damage from drops.

I'm hoping Int'nl Outdoors will come out with an over moulded "indestructible" version, there's plenty of space on the D1 and D4 for shock absorbers and heat dissipation both.


----------



## Johnno (Dec 10, 2017)

I've had my D4 for a good 3 weeks now. It along with the BLF Q8 and a DS1 I picked up are all tied in my book as "best new flashlights of 2017". The D4, especially with the optional 18350 battery tube, is quite impressive - will easily put a grin on the face of even the most jaded flashoholic here when it's double clicked into turbo mode outside at night.  It pretty much redefines the "pocket rocket" genre of flashlights. Also love the UI, especially the ramping capability which is shared by all three. I picked up the DS1 as well since I was so impressed with the D4. Between the D4's flood, the DS1's throw and the Q8's workhorse nature, if you only owned these three lights, you'd have pretty much have all of your practical needs covered. Quite impressed with these newcomers.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Dec 10, 2017)

I just noticed a minor change has been added to International Outdoor's description. I'm not sure when, but it wasn't there a few weeks ago:
"Noctigon 4XP V2 used for better beam pattern."

http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-4xp-v2-4p-quad-led-copper-mcpcb-2-pcs-p-914.html

This has the solder pads all at a slight angle to each other like the Mountain Electronics version, which is supposed to reduce the slightly pinwheel effect the quad emitters create.


----------



## ven (Dec 10, 2017)

Thats cool iamlucky, yes been quite a few swapping their boards over to reduce the square beam pattern. However, i may be in the minority here, for me its only noticeable close to a wall...............i mean come on! In use for me anyway its just unnoticeable. If your a white wall hunter then worth while, for me i would just rather use the damn thing :laughing: . I can see where it would annoy, especially for some who know its there...................i have a little OCD at times so can understand.............plus its an excuse to mod and add their personal touch. A nice beam is very important for me, but it has to be nice in use. I can see all kinds of fugly close up, pretty much most triples/quads close up show crazy patterns.

Still its a positive, Hank has obviously took note(maybe he also does not want customers messing too much as well). So little tweaks towards perfection is only a good thing imho.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Dec 10, 2017)

I don't notice it in use, either. If I shine it at a wall and spin the light, it jumps out at me really obviously, but once I stop, if I look away and look back, it's like the lobes of the beam disappear.

It's great that little improvements like this are being made, though. An MCPCB swap is something I might consider if I ever do follow through on re-flashing the driver. The UI is enough better than I was expecting that I haven't bothered yet.


----------



## SKV89 (Dec 10, 2017)

Does the D4 work with Panasonic protected NCR18650B?


----------



## staticx57 (Dec 10, 2017)

The only way up on this driver UI is full Narsil


----------



## ven (Dec 11, 2017)

SKV89 said:


> Does the D4 work with Panasonic protected NCR18650B?




No, you need high drain flat top. Sony vtc5a or vtc6 , Samsung 30Q for examples.

Protected will not fit as too long, even if they did fit they would trip once you ramped up high. The load is too great for a PCB(iirc over 20a some have measured).

:welcome:


----------



## ank (Dec 11, 2017)

Man this light is so addicting. I ordered another one lol


----------



## MAD777 (Dec 11, 2017)

ank said:


> Man this light is so addicting. I ordered another one lol


Seriously, everyone needs at least two. After all, we have two hands! Plus, since it's so fun to ramp up, we deplete the battery fast. Therefore, what better spare battery holder than another D4?


----------



## ven (Dec 11, 2017)

ank said:


> Man this light is so addicting. I ordered another one lol




So you will only have 2? ....................

I thought i curbed D4 fever with just 3, 2x D1's........






Other D1, not got a pic together as some in work





I still need a green, maybe xpl HI 4000k next as its a fav LED/colour temp and tint! Stunning, i have the xpl HI 4000k triple in the PrinceCvn and i love it!


----------



## iamlucky13 (Dec 11, 2017)

ven said:


> I still need a green, maybe xpl HI 4000k next as its a fav LED/colour temp and tint! Stunning, i have the xpl HI 4000k triple in the PrinceCvn and i love it!



What shade of green? Something like the one on the right?
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1234927#comment-1234927


----------



## ven (Dec 11, 2017)

:naughty:

Tbh, they are(dare i say it) too girly looking for me:tinfoil: I much prefer plain ti or stainless with the copper. I really could not be bothered trying to explain every time i pulled it out and got laughed at in work :laughing: Nice looking, but no......................ti or stainless YES YES YES!


----------



## bartonjd (Dec 12, 2017)

Are they any lights similar to this one (using 18350 tube) that have USB charging?


----------



## slate (Dec 12, 2017)

bartonjd said:


> Are they any lights similar to this one (using 18350 tube) that have USB charging?



Yes Manker E14 II and Astrolux s42 are 18350 quad leds with USB charging


----------



## iamlucky13 (Dec 12, 2017)

bartonjd said:


> Are they any lights similar to this one (using 18350 tube) that have USB charging?



The closest I know of is the Manker E14 II:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ket-Dragster-Floodlight-(18650-18350-4-XP-G3)


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Dec 12, 2017)

slate said:


> Yes Manker E14 II and Astrolux s42 are 18350 quad leds with USB charging



I don't recommend those though. I have both and they are enormously inferior to the D4.

Astrolux S42:
* USB cover pops out of place extremely easily. Very irritating.
* relatively low output
* World's worst UI of any flashlight anywhere.

Manker E14II
* Has a decent UI
* Copper head looks nice but is very heavy. Not very practical for pocket EDC.
* Copper head heats up insanely fast. If you run it at turbo within seconds the head will be too hot to touch. Not good considering that's where the button is.
* Charging interface of having o completely unscrew and remove the head to get to the charging slot is cumbersome.

Both the Astrolux and Manker:
* are much larger than the D4
* are much dimmer than the D4
* lank temperature sensors
* lack smooth ramping


----------



## mightysparrow (Dec 12, 2017)

I normally buy only one or two lights a year - and lately I haven't been excited about a light since I bought my SC62w on clearance over a year ago. Just discovered the D4, and after reading posts in this thread and in Vinh's thread, I ordered two:

D4vn with 219c 5000K emitter; and
D4 from Mountain Electronics with XP-L 3A 5000K emitter.

I added two pocket clips from Mountain Electronics, because I like the fact that pocket clips prevent my lights from rolling off tables and getting hurt, and they also provide an attachment point for a lanyard. I might be crazy for doing this, but I put lanyards on my favorite lights so I can use a lanyard on my wrist or around my neck to prevent my lights from being dropped when in use. 

I like the idea some have offered in this thread of using grip tape on the D4 - I'm looking for inexpensive grip tape now.

I am not inclined to use my D4's at the highest settings - I'm going to be very satisfied at the lower levels in normal use, but it is great to have more output in a light I can take on my commute in case I need it. After all, I work in Washington, D.C. and commute on the subway and bus - so breakdowns and other emergencies are inevitable here. 

I'll report back in this thread after receiving my lights - but how can I not enjoy them?


----------



## bartonjd (Dec 12, 2017)

Is there any way to attach the Emisar D4 to a key ring or python clip?


----------



## iamlucky13 (Dec 12, 2017)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Both the Astrolux and Manker:
> * are much larger than the D4
> * are much dimmer than the D4



I fully understand most of your points, and they factored into my own decision to get the D4 instead of the Manker E14 II.

These two points have some caveats, however. They a moderate amount longer but slightly skinnier. Some users prioritize small diameter over length for pocket carry, including myself (although the D4 still won overall in my consideration).

Also, several reviewers measured the Manker E14 II in the ballpark of 3000 lumens at turn on. Yet, the E14 II reportedly meets its claimed 2200 lumen output at 30s. However, then it immediately steps down further than the D4. Sources: (1), (2), (3)

The D4, unless we're talking about the XP-L version, is not much brighter at turn on (3300 lm claimed for XP-G2, 3500 lm for the N219c), but can fall to as low as 1000 lumens at 30 seconds. source (Nichia example - worst case)

Given the dumber thermal management of the E14, it makes sense that it would get blistering hot before stepdown, but it does sound like it effectively gives the user a little more turbo run time.

The S42 reportedly is hardly worth considering due to defects and unremarkable performance. Some users have even said their S41 (Nichia 219b) is brighter than their S42 (Nichia 219c).

So if you're getting one light, it almost certainly should be the D4. If even the D4 is too rich for your blood, or if you just really like that mixed copper and anodized look (I know it tempts me), the S41 at its common sub-$25 sales price is an option.


----------



## ven (Dec 12, 2017)

Not to mention, the components are of a higher standard with the Emisar range, including the ALPS switch.


----------



## ven (Dec 12, 2017)

bartonjd said:


> Is there any way to attach the Emisar D4 to a key ring or python clip?



Something like gorilla glue(or any super strong glue that will stick) would work on the tail cap.


----------



## ven (Dec 12, 2017)

mightysparrow said:


> I normally buy only one or two lights a year - and lately I haven't been excited about a light since I bought my SC62w on clearance over a year ago. Just discovered the D4, and after reading posts in this thread and in Vinh's thread, I ordered two:
> 
> D4vn with 219c 5000K emitter; and
> D4 from Mountain Electronics with XP-L 3A 5000K emitter.
> ...



I dont say this lightly, as the D4 is not perfect(is any light perfect.........what is perfect!), but IMO the Emisar D4 , maybe the D1(guess output or throw preferences decide here) is the "best light of 2017". What you get for $40 is pretty crazy imho................its all good and Hank keeps hitting home runs(m43 as well).


----------



## eart (Dec 12, 2017)

Hello everyone. Is there at all a way to run the D4 with protected cells? I'm new to 18650 and not keen on running unprotected cells.


----------



## Cobraman502 (Dec 12, 2017)

eart said:


> Hello everyone. Is there at all a way to run the D4 with protected cells? I'm new to 18650 and not keen on running unprotected cells.



No, not this light. It has built in low voltage protection on the driver. No need to worry.


----------



## bartonjd (Dec 13, 2017)

You can run this on a 16340 instead of an 18350 right?


----------



## ven (Dec 13, 2017)

It might be possible with the 18350 body(don’t know). But would not, main reason is there is not a good enough 16340 cell on the planet to handle the potential high ask of this light. As it is, it can eat through a high drain 18650 in a few minutes(several uses of higher modes and 100%). Any 16340 cell ,although it can only give it’s max (variable),it will be down in voltage that quick it would be next to useless unless uses on lower modes. There really is no advantage, only disadvantage VS 18350 if short body use is a must .


----------



## bartonjd (Dec 13, 2017)

Hmm, thats disappointing. I was thinking I could use the same usb 16340 that comes with the Olight S1 Mini in order to get USB based. charging


----------



## eart (Dec 13, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> No, not this light. It has built in low voltage protection on the driver. No need to worry.



I’m still learning about LiIon chemistry so forgive my dumb questions. How do you know d4 has low voltage cut off? Is it common in modern 18650 lights? Like i said I’m just stepping into the 18650 world and d4 seems like an amazing bargain. I have a skilhunt h03 on order and ideally I’d like to be able to use the same cells across the board.


----------



## ven (Dec 13, 2017)

The D4 has been measured at over 20a at the tail cap, max 16340 I would say may be 5 or 6a . With usb cells, they still have to be removed anyway to charge. Better off just having a couple of decent(aspire if you can get them) 18350 cells which are 1100mah and good for 10a. Swap out when required and top off with a small charger. Maybe single bay if for convenience . I have separate chargers in work I use for convenience for example. No need to carry any with me. 
Not sure on the length with usb , if it would fit or not. But tbh, if using 16340 fuel, might as well benefit with a 16340 size light, as the fun of the D4 is pretty much lost ,being restricted with the levels you could use safely. The low voltage would trigger pretty quick with voltage sag as soon as you got much under 4v. 
The ramping UI and crazy outputs are what make this light so much fun, using 16340 usb cell just takes all that away and pretty much makes it pointless. Might as well carry a v11r or olight for convenience. 

The 18650 cell makes best sense for me with this light, it’s fairly compact anyway and the little bit shorter body makes no odds to my carrying. With pretty much 3x and more capacity , 18650 cells really make more sense(imo and of course user preference varies). 

High drain flat tops for 18650, ideally 20a and higher rated. I have used the 15a Samsung 30Q, these sag a little more than the vtc5. To the eye it’s not noticeable when I am using them.


----------



## Cobraman502 (Dec 13, 2017)

eart said:


> I’m still learning about LiIon chemistry so forgive my dumb questions. How do you know d4 has low voltage cut off? Is it common in modern 18650 lights? Like i said I’m just stepping into the 18650 world and d4 seems like an amazing bargain. I have a skilhunt h03 on order and ideally I’d like to be able to use the same cells across the board.



The light specification states “low battery protection” which is typically around 3 volts. Look at mtnelectronics for the specs on the D4. They give you specific batteries they suggest to get optimum performance. I will be using the Samsung q30 or the VCT5. For the 18350 size I will be using Efest purple.


----------



## eart (Dec 13, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> The light specification states “low battery protection” which is typically around 3 volts. Look at mtnelectronics for the specs on the D4. They give you specific batteries they suggest to get optimum performance. I will be using the Samsung q30 or the VCT5. For the 18350 size I will be using Efest purple.



Ordering 4 x VTC6 then. Skilhunt H03 has LVP, Nitecore F2 has overcharge and LVP (in power bank mode), D4 has LVP too. Sounds like I won't explode my stuff...right?


----------



## bartonjd (Dec 13, 2017)

Most desktop computer have a maximum draw of around 10 amps, these draw 20?! Wow!


----------



## Cobraman502 (Dec 13, 2017)

eart said:


> Ordering 4 x VTC6 then. Skilhunt H03 has LVP, Nitecore F2 has overcharge and LVP (in power bank mode), D4 has LVP too. Sounds like I won't explode my stuff...right?



Right sounds like you will be good. The Nitecore chargers are nice I have the D2 charger. You can set it in low charge mode which will drop the charge current to 300mah vs the typical 500mah. This is not necessary however it does top them off nicely. Also these chargers know when to stop charging. I would just caution you to be aware when using flat top cells to ensure you place them in the flashlight and charger in the correct direction.


----------



## Keitho (Dec 13, 2017)

bartonjd said:


> Most desktop computer have a maximum draw of around 10 amps, these draw 20?! Wow!


I've been burned by this before, literally (story for another thread)...20 flashlight amps at 4.35V is 87W. Very impressive, but 250W isn't too uncommon for gaming desktops. Laptops and economy desktops often draw a lot less than 87W, which gives us a good idea just how impressive our little $40 lights are!


----------



## eart (Dec 14, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> I would just caution you to be aware when using flat top cells to ensure you place them in the flashlight and charger in the correct direction.



Appreciate the sanity check. I’m assuming (never have seen one) that flat tops are quite obviously marked with a positive/negative terminals?


----------



## Cobraman502 (Dec 14, 2017)

eart said:


> Appreciate the sanity check. I’m assuming (never have seen one) that flat tops are quite obviously marked with a positive/negative terminals?



Typically yes but I always put a little extra attention into it.


----------



## Keitho (Dec 14, 2017)

eart said:


> Appreciate the sanity check. I’m assuming (never have seen one) that flat tops are quite obviously marked with a positive/negative terminals?


At least for the flat tops in my collection, the positive and negative sides are physically distinct from each other. The negative side is completely flat, and the positive side is a kinda-wide flat terminal. I always orient my chargers in the same way (negative towards me), and always install the batteries using the same technique (index finger on the positive pointing away from me). It is very minor, but I try to practice consistency with respect to polarity and charger use as just one more fail-safe. If that consistency saves me from one inadvertent reversed cell over a lifetime of using lithium ion, then it is worth the very tiny effort, at least to me.


----------



## eart (Dec 14, 2017)

Keitho said:


> At least for the flat tops in my collection, the positive and negative sides are physically distinct from each other. The negative side is completely flat, and the positive side is a kinda-wide flat terminal. I always orient my chargers in the same way (negative towards me), and always install the batteries using the same technique (index finger on the positive pointing away from me). It is very minor, but I try to practice consistency with respect to polarity and charger use as just one more fail-safe. If that consistency saves me from one inadvertent reversed cell over a lifetime of using lithium ion, then it is worth the very tiny effort, at least to me.



That seems like a wise approach. I looked up my incoming purchase, F2 and Skilhunt H03 both have reverse polarity protection, but D4 doesn't seem to. I'm drawing a blank on my high school physics to be honest, but how does polarity work? Electrons flow from the positive terminal via the circuit to the negative terminal thereby powering the circuit.. I guess if the current flows in the opposite direction it energizes things in unexpected (reverse?) order? Am I close?


----------



## mightysparrow (Dec 15, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I received my grey D4 with XP-L 3A (5000K) emitter today. It's a wonderful little light - I'm gonna love carrying this to work and messing around with it at home. The smooth ramping in changing outputs from 1 lumen to 4300 lumens is a unique pleasure - especially in such a small package. The neutral tint beam is also terrific - plenty wide for medium-range tasks, but the throw is there when you crank up the output, too. I don't buy a great many lights, but this is definitely one I will enjoy for a long time and consider an outstanding value among my purchases.

However, it is very lucky that I decided to buy two new 18650 cells to use this light, and lucky that I decided to buy the flat-top Sanyo 18650GA's from Mountain Electronics' website rather than the button top version of that cell. I didn't realize before receiving the light that the Sanyo GA button-top cells would not work with the D4. I tried a button-top first, but appears that it didn't make contact with the spring at the top of the light. 

There has been mention in a few different CPF threads about some button-tops not working with the D4, but Mountain Electronics has both the flat-top and button-top Sanyo cells linked to the D4 page on its site. I'm going to email them to suggest that they remove the link on that page to the button-top cells. I'm going to have to buy more flat-tops...

Awesome light, though - I just received my notice from Vinh that my D4vn is in line for him to work his magic. Looking forward to receiving that light!


----------



## ven (Dec 16, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

:rock: , mightysparrow, sony vtc5a, vtc6 and samsung 30q flat tops are good choices for the D4(pretty much in that order). I even use the older vtc5(not vtc5a and old 25r with good results).

Yep! you need several cells for this beast, 2-3 even, ideally carry one of the spares in another D4 or D1 But a few double clicks to 100%, you know testing how hot it gets and the step downs etc. Soon brings a high drain into the mid 3v's! Have fun, dont forget you can tweak the driver temp settings(calibration is usually off as not calibrated :laughing So you can tweak, 10 clicks and hold, set to max, set to your hand pretty much(by this you just keep switch pressed through the little strobe/blink(release here for max 70 setting, or keep pressed for.......) part and into the 100% output, release when light is toasty to suit your uses)


----------



## Agpp (Dec 16, 2017)

slate said:


> Yes Manker E14 II and Astrolux s42 are 18350 quad leds with USB charging



There's SS35-1 triple also.


----------



## mightysparrow (Dec 16, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ven said:


> :rock: , mightysparrow, sony vtc5a, vtc6 and samsung 30q flat tops are good choices for the D4(pretty much in that order). I even use the older vtc5(not vtc5a and old 25r with good results).
> 
> Yep! you need several cells for this beast, 2-3 even, ideally carry one of the spares in another D4 or D1 But a few double clicks to 100%, you know testing how hot it gets and the step downs etc. Soon brings a high drain into the mid 3v's! Have fun, dont forget you can tweak the driver temp settings(calibration is usually off as not calibrated :laughing So you can tweak, 10 clicks and hold, set to max, set to your hand pretty much(by this you just keep switch pressed through the little strobe/blink(release here for max 70 setting, or keep pressed for.......) part and into the 100% output, release when light is toasty to suit your uses)



I just edited my post, above, to clarify that I meant that I tried the Sanyo GA button-tops before trying the new GA flat-tops I bought when I bought my D4 from Mountain Electronics. The button-tops didn't work. The flat-tops worked fine.

According to Richard of Mountain Electronics, several button-top cells *do* work with the D4. I have only tried the Sanyo GA button-tops, not the others.

Yes, you're right - this little monster will go through charged cells quickly on its higher outputs, so it's good to have several charged and ready to go. I will be buying more flat-top cells - probably the Sanyo GAs for longer run-times at the moderate outputs.


----------



## ven (Dec 16, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

The sony vtc6 makes a good choice, less sag than a GA, so will hold voltage better, even used on 50% its still around 2000lm give/take. Also when measured, the vtc6 are near 3200mah iirc or above spec, GA near 3300mah...........add a few amps load and the vtc6 are quite ahead. So although the GA is rated 3500mah, the vtc6 still makes a better choice for this light imo.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Dec 16, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

I've had a Sanyo GA in mine for a month or so now. The battery check is reporting 3.8V. It's noticeably not as bright on a non-full GA compared to a VTC5A, but still pretty impressive.

However, this light is really useful even staying mostly in the regulated range. The relatively floody beam is great for close to medium-range work.

I'm glad I picked up a VTC5A for fun. I use up that battery disproportionately faster because it begs you to keep playing with turbo more than the GA does.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the D7 turns out to be. If it has a tripod socket, it will be tough to choose between a D7 and a BLF Q8. I might hardly use my 120V halogen worklight anymore if I buy either one of those.


----------



## ven (Dec 16, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Yes, looking forward to what the D7 brings to the party, sure be keeping an eye open for any release or info

I find the 350ma level pretty much spot on for most tasks/uses, be it home or work. But damn that short cut to 100%, i just have to double click almost every time i switch it on! Just never grows old


----------



## mightysparrow (Dec 16, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ven said:


> The sony vtc6 makes a good choice, less sag than a GA, so will hold voltage better, even used on 50% its still around 2000lm give/take. Also when measured, the vtc6 are near 3200mah iirc or above spec, GA near 3300mah...........add a few amps load and the vtc6 are quite ahead. So although the GA is rated 3500mah, the vtc6 still makes a better choice for this light imo.



All right then! I guess I need to pick up a couple of VTC6 cells!


----------



## ank (Dec 17, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

What is D7 ?


----------



## ven (Dec 17, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ank said:


> What is D7 ?



iirc, its a 3 cell light, 7 LED's.


----------



## noboneshotdog (Dec 17, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ank said:


> What is D7 ?



It has not been released yet, but it is definitely in the works.


----------



## MAD777 (Dec 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



noboneshotdog said:


> It has not been released yet, but it is definitely in the works.


Oh my! More Emisar goodness to come!


----------



## MSGinMD (Dec 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*

Just wondering how long shipping takes when ordered from International Outdoor Store?


----------



## noboneshotdog (Dec 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



MSGinMD said:


> Just wondering how long shipping takes when ordered from International Outdoor Store?



Mine came to NH, USA in about 2 weeks.


----------



## Cobraman502 (Dec 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



MSGinMD said:


> Just wondering how long shipping takes when ordered from International Outdoor Store?



Just got mine today was shipped 11/29


----------



## iamlucky13 (Dec 18, 2017)

*Re: Noctigon Meteor D4*



ank said:


> What is D7 ?



It's not officially announced yet, but Hank Wang, the guy behind Emisar, has said on another forum he is planning a 7 LED light with 3 x 18650 batteries. He hasn't said much more than that, and since I assume he is swamped with demand for the existing lights, I suspect we'll be waiting several more months before we see anything new.



MSGinMD said:


> Just wondering how long shipping takes when ordered from International Outdoor Store?



Mine took about 3 weeks.


----------



## jfhrtn (Dec 19, 2017)

I was just looking at the line on my D4 and noticed it looked like there was some oil under the lens. Took the lens it and cleaned it along with the top of the optic. I noticed while I had it off that the is an oring between the bezel & lens but noticed there is nothing between the lens & optic. Only my 3rd day with the D4 so still learning and doing as much as can. Shouldn't there be an oring between the lens and optic also or is there supposed to only be one between the bezel and lens?

Also I have noticed the head on this D4 doesn't get to hot to hold. I'm using Samsung 25r batts and have set the thermal regulation to max. The light will blink for low voltage before it ramps down for heat. So far from what I can tell everything works flawlessly though. I will post up a beamshot of the D4 with the quad Nichias beside my D1vn with SST 40 SD. My D1vn gets considerably hotter than the D4. I got a D4vn in the tube to me so I will have something to really compare it to. Does anything sound weird about this D4 not getting really hot pretty fast?

The comparison shot below is the D4 Nichia on turbo with a fresh 25r battery next to my D1vn SST 40 SD on Turbo with a fresh LG MJ1


----------



## ven (Dec 19, 2017)

My D4 219c gets ridiculous in 15 seconds, so not sure whats going on there. In fact i dont have any light that gets hotter faster than my D4 219c. The cool beam on the left presumably the sst40, the beam on the right looks 4000-5000k on my screen. Could it be the xp-g2 version? maybe 5000k? Little hint of rosy in there.............

My D4 ramps down from around 15s or so and it is aggressive, maybe for the next 30s or so. Double clicking to 100% for a 2nd time makes it super toasty. I measured over 80oC at the head!!!! OUCH


----------



## Cobraman502 (Dec 19, 2017)

ven said:


> My D4 219c gets ridiculous in 15 seconds, so not sure whats going on there. In fact i dont have any light that gets hotter faster than my D4 219c. The cool beam on the left presumably the sst40, the beam on the right looks 4000-5000k on my screen. Could it be the xp-g2 version? maybe 5000k? Little hint of rosy in there.............
> 
> My D4 ramps down from around 15s or so and it is aggressive, maybe for the next 30s or so. Double clicking to 100% for a 2nd time makes it super toasty. I measured over 80oC at the head!!!! OUCH



That’s why I got the xpl hi version. Less heat


----------



## ven (Dec 19, 2017)

Cobraman502 said:


> That’s why I got the xpl hi version. Less heat



Yep, for me though i prefer the 219c in 5000k, i only use 100% for short blasts, in fact most of my uses are 350ma(probably 95%+). Have the xp-g2 4000k for evening easy on the eye uses.


----------



## jfhrtn (Dec 19, 2017)

The been on the left is the D1vn SST 40 and the beam on the right is the D4 219c. Should have specified which was which. The camera made the 219c look a lot warmer than 5000k. I will have to pick up or order a different brand battery. Maybe a high drain efest or some VTC 6's to see they will get some extra brightness out of it. These 25r's are only about a month old. Could hit up a vape shop for some high drain flashlight batteries haha


----------



## ven (Dec 19, 2017)

25R should be up to the job, 20a cells and still decent today. Unless not genuine 25R but not sure where you bought them. There are plenty of fake/copies out there unfortunately, that would explain the lower output but a guess.


----------



## jfhrtn (Dec 19, 2017)

All the cells I got now came from illumn so I feel like they should be genuine. Haven't ever had any problems from there. When the D4vn comes in I'll compare the two are see how they compare. The D4vn is coming with XPL HI 4000k leds which I think I'll really enjoy. The 5000k is a bit cool still with dark adapted eyes. I appreciate you helping me make the decision on the 4000k leds


----------



## ven (Dec 19, 2017)

The 4000k HI's are very nice


----------



## ma tumba (Dec 25, 2017)

I have no idea if I won tint lottery getting this particular 219c d4 but I am amazed by that tint. Some members have got the double click fever while I am switching this on again and again to appreciate the tint. Really close to 5600k yuji.

One feature that I'd love to see in this light is power bank functionality


----------



## Tixx (Dec 26, 2017)

ven said:


> The 4000k HI's are very nice



Hands down the winner for me. I've had every one of the neutrals and this one is my keeper. XP-G2 4000k and then xp-G5000k were my second and third


----------



## Connor (Dec 27, 2017)

The D4 is now available in Titanium/copper: https://intl-outdoor.com/emisar-d4ti-high-power-flashlight-p-927.html

I don't think this is a particularly good idea, especially in this light. Titanium is a crappy heat conductor and the copper head will toast your fingers quite nicely. 
They _do_ look really nice, though. ;-)


----------



## ven (Dec 27, 2017)

Yes very cool, not into all the coloured ones, but the plain ti would be the one. Certainly not practical, but practical can be very boring Besides, 3500lm in any compact light is a little crazy, might as well go one step further for bonkers


----------



## MAD777 (Dec 27, 2017)

Ti is a horrible conductor of heat and these D4's are miniature furnaces. Looks nice but doesn't seem like a practical step.


----------



## torchsarecool (Dec 27, 2017)

I caved in immediately and dug out the "emergency" credit card. Bought a raw titanium nichia

normally regret would be sinking in by now (the looming arguement with my wife) but these just look soooo nice I couldn't stop myself


----------



## Connor (Dec 27, 2017)

torchsarecool said:


> normally regret would be sinking in by now (the looming arguement with my wife) but these just look soooo nice I couldn't stop myself



Regret will sink right into your fingers when touching the copper head after a minute on max. :devil:


----------



## torchsarecool (Dec 27, 2017)

Connor said:


> Regret will sink right into your fingers when touching the copper head after a minute on max. :devil:



Hahaha yea maybe. Moonlight it is then, lol


----------



## eh4 (Dec 27, 2017)

If you set the thermal limit to a reasonable level, there won't be any issue with titanium on the poor heat sink end, or the copper on the good heat sink end. 
Either way with the adjustable thermal protection the issue will be how bright and for how long, you'll still get full power.


----------



## noboneshotdog (Dec 27, 2017)

Ya, I don't think many of us are that worried about the heat on this one. 

Love the copper /plain ti combo. And they should be a bit more durable than the anodized version.


----------



## eh4 (Dec 27, 2017)

I didn't check the link before, didn't see that the lights are actually copper And titanium, copper where the heat sinking really matters, and titanium at the ends where the dings happen, neat idea, and really pretty in terms of that sorta multi colored aesthetic. Not my thing but I can appreciate it.


----------



## mortuus (Dec 28, 2017)

MAD777 said:


> Ti is a horrible conductor of heat and these D4's are miniature furnaces. Looks nice but doesn't seem like a practical step.



what about raw copper like the olight special editions that would be better? or is the d4 such a heat monster it doesnt matter, it will get hot as hell anyways haha..


----------



## Keitho (Dec 28, 2017)

Those are some nice looking hosts. If they pulled the trigger on the tweaked firmware to add a few more discreet levels, I think I'd get yet another D4.


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 28, 2017)

The makers know what they are doing. The proof is in their products. As is being said, they are temperature controlled (and adjustable at that) but it would be interesting to compare the standard aluminum with this bi-metal tool.

We use a commercial pure grade 2 titanium sheet to cook pizza. The idea is that softer crust is better than crisp crust. Titanium will transfer heat. The Match Box Instruments HF flashlight proved that to me.

Ordered


----------



## scout24 (Dec 28, 2017)

I think they look beautiful, but like the in-hand balance of the aluminum. I'll wait for reports to see if these are really nose-heavy with the copper. I sold my Astrolux quad for that reason...


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 28, 2017)

scout24 said:


> I think they look beautiful, but like the in-hand balance of the aluminum. I'll wait for reports to see if these are really nose-heavy with the copper. I sold my Astrolux quad for that reason...



Been using the nose-heavy D1S nightly with the index or third finger tip on the switch. Switch faces almost down toward ground, shock cord lanyard fitted for this grip. Anticipating similar carry for D4Ti. During cold time of year, the pointer finger should keep cozy on that copper.


----------



## scout24 (Dec 28, 2017)

Good point on the D1S balance maybe being similar. And in the interest of accuracy, it was a Manker A14, not an Astrolux that I found to be nose heavy...


----------



## Nev (Dec 28, 2017)

The coloured d4's are probly more appealing to the ladies , I prefer black.


----------



## eart (Dec 28, 2017)

Gents is there a manual for this minibeast?


----------



## Keitho (Dec 28, 2017)

Nev said:


> The coloured d4's are probly more appealing to the ladies , I prefer black.



Seriously? In this day in age, with all of the worldwide communication and knowledge available, are there still people who think this way? I mean, really, to misspell "colored" is really shocking for me to see!


----------



## scout24 (Dec 28, 2017)

There are different accepted ways to spell some words- that's one of them. Regional and cultural differences and all.

See: Dan Quayle and the "potatoe" debacle...


----------



## Tachead (Dec 28, 2017)

Keitho said:


> Seriously? In this day in age, with all of the worldwide communication and knowledge available, are there still people who think this way? I mean, really, to misspell "colored" is really shocking for me to see!


Colour is actually the most common spelling around the world by far. It is only really the US who spells it "color". I am not really sure why?


----------



## Nev (Dec 28, 2017)

Keitho said:


> Seriously? In this day in age, with all of the worldwide communication and knowledge available, are there still people who think this way? I mean, really, to misspell "colored" is really shocking for me to see!



I live in the UK , that's how we spell it , you can spell it how you please.


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 28, 2017)

How about behavior, or yoghurt? Looks more interesting so that's how some of us write it. And calling a flashlight torch?Thanks to the Brits, yeah?

Manual for the Minibeast: (page with diagram of user interfacej

https://intl-outdoor.com/emisar-d4t...7.html?zenid=fe769b5827f71303914a18049c5e4016


----------



## Tachead (Dec 28, 2017)

Nev said:


> I live in the UK , that's how we spell it , you can spell it how you please.


That's how most countries spell it. It's just the US that somehow spelled it wrong long enough that their dictionaries eventually said it was right lol.


----------



## Keitho (Dec 28, 2017)

My apologies, tonge-in-cheek humor (humour) is evidently also a US-only concept. Let me be more direct: I was impugning the idea that only ladies like non-black gadgets, using the (obviously) British spelling as a proxy. I won't let it happen again.


----------



## Nev (Dec 28, 2017)

Keitho said:


> My apologies, tonge-in-cheek humor (humour) is evidently also a US-only concept. Let me be more direct: I was impugning the idea that only ladies like non-black gadgets, using the (obviously) British spelling as a proxy. I won't let it happen again.



I knew that , but I wasn't going to let on that I knew , ha ha.


----------



## Nev (Dec 28, 2017)

I wasn't being sexist , it's just that my missus has an eye for blingy things.
It a shame she doesn't like torches , she think I'm nuts & she would be right ;-).


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 28, 2017)

eart said:


> Gents is there a manual for this minibeast?



Good question. Anything else besides the UI schematic available?


----------



## eh4 (Dec 28, 2017)

Read up on Budget Light Forum, Toykeeper designed the UI in part, and she has discussed it thoroughly in a D4 thread or two.


----------



## Tixx (Dec 29, 2017)

KITROBASKIN said:


> How about behavior, or yoghurt? Looks more interesting so that's how some of us write it. And calling a flashlight torch?Thanks to the Brits, yeah?
> 
> Manual for the Minibeast: (page with diagram of user interfacej
> 
> https://intl-outdoor.com/emisar-d4t...7.html?zenid=fe769b5827f71303914a18049c5e4016




This thread:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55306


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 29, 2017)

Thank you Tixx! 

Been using index and and third finger to activate switch, with normal walking hand position, switch facing basically downward. Placed the shock cord lanyard 
to accommodate this method. Very nice arrangement.


----------



## eh4 (Jan 5, 2018)

So I ordered a 20mm quad MCPCB and 4 of the XP-G3 R2 3000K 90+ CRI leds, and paid the small fee to have them reflow soldered by Mountain Electronics before shipping, then swapped them into my Cool white HI D4 on the kitchen table... 
Now I love the light. I hadn't been able to enjoy the low levels of the cool white at all, but at 3000K the floody lows are fantastic. True to the prediction of the Kruithof curve, the high levels are yellow and glaring, and less "pleasing" than the cool white's high levels had been. 
It also gets hot very quickly on high. 
With that all said, it's just about what I'd hoped for and much more suitable for the majority of what i need a light like this for, say 10mA to 2A with scrolling brightness control. 
Next to get another one in the 5000K Nichia high CRI flavor to compare brightness and rate of heating.


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Jan 5, 2018)

eh4 said:


> So I ordered a 20mm quad MCPCB and 4 of the XP-G3 R2 3000K 90+ CRI leds, and paid the small fee to have them reflow soldered by Mountain Electronics before shipping, then swapped them into my Cool white HI D4 on the kitchen table...
> Now I love the light. I hadn't been able to enjoy the low levels of the cool white at all, but at 3000K the floody lows are fantastic. True to the prediction of the Kruithof curve, the high levels are yellow and glaring, and less "pleasing" than the cool white's high levels had been.
> It also gets hot very quickly on high.
> With that all said, it's just about what I'd hoped for and much more suitable for the majority of what i need a light like this for, say 10mA to 2A with scrolling brightness control.
> Next to get another one in the 5000K Nichia high CRI flavor to compare brightness and rate of heating.



Would very much like to find out about that comparison.


----------



## blah9 (Jan 5, 2018)

Nice. Yes I would love to hear about that as well. I have the Nichia version and would be curious.


----------



## eh4 (Jan 6, 2018)

You can both be sure that I'll yack about it here. 

Seems reasonable that whether Cree or Nichia, that any high CRI led would get hotter, faster, the lower it's predominant color temperature (K), the more it's range fell into infra red... 
It's the phosphors, if I paint a lightbulb black it's going to get hotter, and hotter faster.


----------



## blah9 (Jan 6, 2018)

That makes sense. I didn't think of it that way before.


----------



## aginthelaw (Jan 6, 2018)

Now if we can only make sense of why one would buy 5 d4’s


----------



## Crazyeddiethefirst (Jan 6, 2018)

Perhaps to have one of each color offered? There was a time I thought like that until I realized I never ever chose a light because of it's color...only tint, CRI, Runtime & appropriate for the job at hand....


----------



## eh4 (Jan 7, 2018)

I would pass on the cool white HI D4 if I could repeat the process, they all will get hot pretty quick at the max, and while the cool HI really is the best option for "brightest" with least waste heat, and most light for the longest duration before overheating, for me at least it rendered the most efficient low levels unusable, tint-wise... = no fun. 
That said, I can see buying more of them for messing with, along with for having spares, they're such neat lights. 
I still think that the D1 is overall the sleeper "best light", but the D4 is More Fun. 
I'd missed out on the Fun part before by ordering the cool HI variant, as a low lumens, warm tint fan, but the 3000K XPG3 replacement quad fixed that.

I'm looking forward to playing around with some remote head - heavy gauge wire - parallel battery caddy arrangements, to turn the D4 into a headlamp... using the 5$ 18350 battery tube as an easy sacrificial mod material. 
The D4 head would make for a number of good lamp options really, kinda pricy as a 40$ lamp head, but still, lots of options...
Get an AC to DC power supply and rig it to show the driver a fully charged battery, saw and grind down an 18350 tube as an adapter and give it more heat sink, attached to one of those bendable, flexible, steel cable necks; it would make for a neat lamp, especially those ones that end with a clamp for a base, clamp it to a bamboo cutting board, it would make an awesome reading light / work light with a floody TIR optic.


----------



## Agpp (Jan 8, 2018)

eh4 said:


> I would pass on the cool white HI D4 if I could repeat the process, they all will get hot pretty quick at the max, and while the cool HI really is the best option for "brightest" with least waste heat, and most light for the longest duration before overheating, for me at least it rendered the most efficient low levels unusable, tint-wise... = no fun.
> That said, I can see buying more of them for messing with, along with for having spares, they're such neat lights.
> I still think that the D1 is overall the sleeper "best light", but the D4 is More Fun.
> I'd missed out on the Fun part before by ordering the cool HI variant, as a low lumens, warm tint fan, but the 3000K XPG3 replacement quad fixed that.
> ...



HI is the most efficient at high levels. It is the least hot while having the highest output.
See:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55306


----------



## eh4 (Jan 8, 2018)

Agpp said:


> HI is the most efficient at high levels. It is the least hot while having the highest output.
> See:
> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/55306



Cool!


----------



## iamlucky13 (Jan 9, 2018)

aginthelaw said:


> Now if we can only make sense of why one would buy 5 d4’s



Because Emisar doesn't make a D20.


----------



## Keitho (Jan 9, 2018)

aginthelaw said:


> Now if we can only make sense of why one would buy 5 d4’s


Yeah, totally. With 10 host colors, 7 LED choices, and 3 battery tube lengths, I also don't know how five could possibly be enough.


----------



## aginthelaw (Jan 9, 2018)

iamlucky13 said:


> Because Emisar doesn't make a D20.



Yet!


----------



## easilyled (Jan 11, 2018)

KITROBASKIN said:


> How about behavior, or yoghurt? Looks more interesting so that's how some of us write it. *And calling a flashlight torch?Thanks to the Brits, yeah*?
> 
> Manual for the Minibeast: (page with diagram of user interfacej
> 
> https://intl-outdoor.com/emisar-d4t...7.html?zenid=fe769b5827f71303914a18049c5e4016



You have to admit that at the high drive levels we like to power our lights at that "*torch*" is a more appropriate term than the wimpy "*flashlight*"


----------



## MadAmos (Jan 13, 2018)

I received the D4 ti I ordered on Dec 31st. I got the raw version XP-L Hi V3 1A 6500k and so far I am pleased. The machining and feel are perfect. I like the flat top cut knurling and the balance is nice the weight of the Ti body works nicely with the copper head. 

I have compared it to my Vihn D4 that has an aluminum body and the ramping is almost exactly the same when turned on in high with freshly charged Sony VTC6A's. 

I also ordered the 16340 tube and will try it out once I get a couple high output cells, probably the Efest 700 Ma unprotected, but I am open to suggestions.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jan 14, 2018)

MadAmos said:


> ...I also ordered the 16340 tube and will try it out once I get a couple high output cells, probably the Efest 700 Ma unprotected, but I am open to suggestions.


It's not a 16340 tube. It's an 18350 tube. 18350 cells are the same width is 18650. They're slightly wider than 16340. While you could use a 16340 in the Emisar D4 with shorty tube, you're better off using an 18350 for extra power.

The good news is there is one 18350 that towers above the rest in performance. It outperforms EVERY 16340 and 18350 cell by a huge amount. That cell is the *Aspire 1100 mAh* 18350. It's a high-drain cell for maximum performance and its tested capacity really is 1100 mAh. It even outperforms the larger 18500 cell, and will give you performance close to that of a quality 18650.

Aspire 1100 mAh 18350s may be hard to find, but they are hands-down the best choice of cell for the D4 if you're not using full-sized 18650s.


----------



## Tachead (Jan 14, 2018)

Fireclaw18 said:


> It's not a 16340 tube. It's an 18350 tube. 18350 cells are the same width is 18650. They're slightly wider than 16340. While you could use a 16340 in the Emisar D4 with shorty tube, you're better off using an 18350 for extra power.
> 
> The good news is there is one 18350 that towers above the rest in performance. It outperforms EVERY 16340 and 18350 cell by a huge amount. That cell is the *Aspire 1100 mAh* 18350. It's a high-drain cell for maximum performance and its tested capacity really is 1100 mAh. It even outperforms the larger 18500 cell, and will give you performance close to that of a quality 18650.
> 
> Aspire 1100 mAh 18350s may be hard to find, but they are hands-down the best choice of cell for the D4 if you're not using full-sized 18650s.


The KeepPower 1200mAh is readily available now too and has similar performance. Here it is... 

https://www.illumn.com/batteries-ch...imr18350-1200mah-high-discharge-flat-top.html


----------



## MadAmos (Jan 14, 2018)

Tachead said:


> The KeepPower 1200mAh is readily available now too and has similar performance. Here it is...
> 
> https://www.illumn.com/batteries-ch...imr18350-1200mah-high-discharge-flat-top.html



Thanks to both of you  I did mean 18350 but I did not know about the Aspire cells so I now have four on order that have the 1100 mAh wrappers. 

The KeepPower cells look good as well and I will pick up a couple to try soon.

I plan on using 18650 cells (Sony high drain) most of the time but like the idea of the ultra compact config.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jan 15, 2018)

My guess is the KeepPower are just rewrapped Aspire cells.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jan 15, 2018)

MadAmos said:


> I plan on using 18650 cells (Sony high drain) most of the time but like the idea of the ultra compact config.



If you want the absolute brightest possible performance on a full cell use Sony VTC5A. Max output will decline quickly though and after a little bit output would be higher on a VTC6.


----------



## MadAmos (Jan 15, 2018)

Fireclaw18 said:


> If you want the absolute brightest possible performance on a full cell use Sony VTC5A. Max output will decline quickly though and after a little bit output would be higher on a VTC6.



I have quite a few VTC6A cells that I have been using with my other D4 lights so that is not a problem. I rarely use them at the highest setting just an occasional quick burst but I enjoy the ramping UI and the reliable access to the lowest setting.


----------



## Mapster (Jan 16, 2018)

It seems as though everyone jumped on the raw Ti... I went to order one and they are out of stock :/ I hope they get restocked soon!


----------



## easilyled (Jan 17, 2018)

Tachead said:


> The KeepPower 1200mAh is readily available now too and has similar performance. Here it is...
> 
> https://www.illumn.com/batteries-ch...imr18350-1200mah-high-discharge-flat-top.html



Thanks for the link. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be readily available in the UK.
Do you know if illumn ships to the UK?


----------



## easilyled (Jan 17, 2018)

My Emisar D4 Ti arrived but the extra 18350 tube that I ordered didn't. I've asked it to be sent on.

I like the light and it seems excellent value for money. Its my first Emisar of any kind.

I can't expect it to have the same feel as a custom light but the threads of the tailcap do appear to be quite gritty. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this?


----------



## Tachead (Jan 17, 2018)

easilyled said:


> Thanks for the link. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be readily available in the UK.
> Do you know if illumn ships to the UK?



No problem👍. 

I am not sure but they are really nice guys so, just shoot them an email and I am sure they will get right back to you.


----------



## Rifter (Jan 17, 2018)

easilyled said:


> Thanks for the link. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be readily available in the UK.
> Do you know if illumn ships to the UK?



Not sure about the UK specifically but i do know they ship internationally as im in Canada and received an order from them just yesterday. They were even nice enough to forget to put the full amount on the customs declaration so i did not owe duty on the order. I have always had fantastic service from illumn. Would recommend them.


----------



## archimedes (Jan 17, 2018)

easilyled said:


> ....
> I like the light and it seems excellent value for money. Its my first Emisar of any kind.
> 
> I can't expect it to have the same feel as a custom light but the threads of the tailcap do appear to be quite gritty. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this?



Although I don't (yet) have an Emisar in Ti, I have had many different titanium flashlights, both custom and production.

Although there are exceptions, generally the threads on the customs are rather smoother than those compared with the mass production items, and usually substantially so.

The issue is that Ti is prone to galling, and any minor imperfections (variances, tolerances, etc) in the threading will tend to "grab"

Appropriate lubrication will help, sometimes quite a bit, and normal wear does tend to "break in" the threads (at the expense of microscopic material loss, associated thread wear, and in extreme cases thread sloppiness)

I think that is mostly what discolors the lubricants as they darken ... more metal particles than actual "dirt" in many cases.

In any case, I find that the Krytox tends to darken more slowly after the first few changes :shrug:


----------



## easilyled (Jan 17, 2018)

archimedes said:


> Although I don't (yet) have an Emisar in Ti, I have had many different titanium flashlights, both custom and production.
> 
> Although there are exceptions, generally the threads on the customs are rather smoother than those compared with the mass production items, and usually substantially so.
> 
> ...



Thanks archimedes. Yes, I have heard galling mentioned many times when it comes to Ti threads, yet the custom makers seem to excel at particularly smooth threads even in Ti. I guess that's why you'd pay at least five times as much if this were a custom light! Anyway I can live with it. It is a fairly minor issue for an otherwise very impressive light and, as you say, they may smooth out with time.


----------



## easilyled (Jan 17, 2018)

Tachead said:


> No problem👍.
> 
> I am not sure but they are really nice guys so, just shoot them an email and I am sure they will get right back to you.



Thanks. :thumbsup:


----------



## archimedes (Jan 17, 2018)

How do you find the weight balance to be on the D4 Ti ?

There had been some concern about possible awkwardness due to the heavy copper heatsink sitting towards the front ....


----------



## easilyled (Jan 17, 2018)

archimedes said:


> How do you find the weight balance to be on the D4 Ti ?
> 
> There had been some concern about possible awkwardness due to the heavy copper heatsink sitting towards the front ....



The weight distribution is more towards the head but not to the point of causing any awkwardness for me. Its a beefy light altogether and the 18650 creates some weight as a counterbalance in the battery tube. Tailstanding is very secure and it doesn't feel like its remotely likely to topple over.


----------



## archimedes (Jan 17, 2018)

That sounds very nice, I appreciate your detailed description


----------



## scout24 (Jan 17, 2018)

+1, easilyled. The balance was my one concern before ordering. I'm greatly enjoying the aluminum version, just wish it had a nice solid bezel down pocketclip...


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Jan 22, 2018)

The D4 Ti is about 30 grams less mass than the D1S.

This sample has a little roughness near the most forward edge of the bezel piece around the circumference. I may smooth it out. The copper shows some light machine marks but is smooth. Very much excited to see how it ages. 

A solid little handy good looking tool for sure. Will take it out tonight.


----------



## the0dore3524 (Jan 22, 2018)

Got my Cyan 219c today. I must say, it certainly lives up the hype - very impressive relative to the cost. I’ve yet to try it out at night, but can’t wait! This thing seems like a real pocket rocket. I was looking forward to receiving the Tactician today, but the Emisar really got me excited.

Also: Does anyone know what the max output is on an 18350 for 219C? I know it’s less than with 18650, but man it’s bright!


----------



## archimedes (Jan 22, 2018)

the0dore3524 said:


> Got my Cyan 219c today. I must say, it certainly lives up the hype - very impressive relative to the cost. I’ve yet to try it out at night, but can’t wait! This thing seems like a real pocket rocket....
> 
> Also: Does anyone know what the max output is on an 18350 for 219C? I know it’s less than with 18650, but man it’s bright!



Pretty fun, eh ?

This review ...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/443327

... says ~ 3k lm


----------



## the0dore3524 (Jan 22, 2018)

archimedes said:


> Pretty fun, eh ?
> 
> This review ...
> 
> ...



Thanks Arch! It certainly is a lumen monster. It’s not going to make a budget-light convert anytime soon, but I’m duly impressed. Didn’t realize how bright these things could get. That being said, there is definitely a gap between these types of lights and customs/higher-end ones. The threads on my specimen are quite gritty and I dislike the chalky texture. Still though, I can see why this light earns the praise it does.


----------



## ncvarmint2016 (Jan 29, 2018)

I want a D4 with the HI 4000k but mtn elect never has em. Maybe soon i hope


----------



## Random Dan (Jan 29, 2018)

ncvarmint2016 said:


> I want a D4 with the HI 4000k but mtn elect never has em. Maybe soon i hope


I was also set on the 4000K 5D tint as well so I ordered directly from intl-outdoor. It took about three weeks to get to the states.


----------



## eh4 (Jan 30, 2018)

I haven't been in a big hurry to report this to y'all, but I've found that the D4 with a lower Kelvin temp is more blinding on high, as well as more useful on low, than the Cool HI 6500K... 
But yes it gets hot real quick, and there's undoubtedly fewer "lumens".

I tried it a few weeks ago, writing this just inspired me to try it again, I'm regretting it now and I'm going to take an extra MacuGuard eye support vitamin and hope this mild headache that seems to originate at the back of my eyeballs goes away soon. 
I think it's the IR.


----------



## HeyGuysWatchThis (Feb 3, 2018)

So I just got the D1S, and I'm really liking it, the UI is great now that I have it in hand. To me it has a lot of similarities with the Zebralight UI, which I love. I'm considering upgrading my SC32w to a D4 with the 18350 tube, but I'd like to see a pic of the two next to each other. Anyone have both? Also, I'd like to know how much heavier the D4 is than the SC32 with the 18350 tube. I've only seen the weight listed with the 18650 tube.


----------



## Keitho (Feb 3, 2018)

HeyGuysWatchThis said:


> Also, I'd like to know how much heavier the D4 is than the SC32 with the 18350 tube. I've only seen the weight listed with the 18650 tube.



I don't have the SC32w; but, my Aluminium Emisar D4 with the 18350 tube, no cell, with my un-calibrated kitchen scale and calipers, is 1.8 oz (52g), 2.488" long (63.2mm). Cute little bottom-of-the-pocket light, best value light of 2017 in my opinion for both 18350 and 18650. The 18350 tube has multiple OD that range from .886" to .984" (22.5-24.99mm). Not as durable anodize as my ZL, but better-looking (I really like my black and green legoed version), and more impressive to show off for 30 seconds or less.


----------



## SKV89 (Feb 4, 2018)

MadAmos said:


> I have quite a few VTC6A cells that I have been using with my other D4 lights so that is not a problem. I rarely use them at the highest setting just an occasional quick burst but I enjoy the ramping UI and the reliable access to the lowest setting.



Where did you buy yoir vtc6a? I couldnt find them anywhere. I bought a bunch of vtc6 yesterday instead. Ivwish theu were the vtc6a.


----------



## Brutus (Apr 7, 2018)

Does anyone know of a leather belt holster for the D4? I got a new multitool (swisstool) with a leather belt holster and I would love to have another belt holster for the D4.


----------



## Bucklight (Apr 12, 2018)

I spent weeks combing through the various options for 18650 lights and finally chose the Emisar D4, and now it's not in stock at MtnElectronics. Doh! That's what I get for waiting so long.


----------



## Keitho (Apr 12, 2018)

Brutus said:


> Does anyone know of a leather belt holster for the D4? I got a new multitool (swisstool) with a leather belt holster and I would love to have another belt holster for the D4.



The high-end choice (high quality, high price) is from Thor's Hammer leather products, cpf user Hogo. Multiple leather color choices; add a spare cell holder if you want; or, add a revolver holster to your flashlight holster. I got mine for an HDS, and it fits my ZL SC600's, and my Emisar D4's, pretty well (I'll insert a couple pics in a moment). He does a leather flap with a metal belt clip. It isn't a good fashion fit for most office attire, but is a great option for me in the outdoors or in work clothes, and it is durable enough to last a lifetime of hard use.

 https://imgur.com/gallery/UZZnJ


----------



## iamlucky13 (Apr 12, 2018)

A thought that occurred to me recently:

I haven't seen anybody double their D4's regulated current (and expand the range where it benefits from the slightly better efficiency of the 7135 vs. the FET) by piggy backing a 2nd 7135 chip on top of the one it has, the same way Mountain Electronics does on some of the drivers they sell:
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/univimag/add7135-1.jpg

If I ever get around to trying an alternate firmware on mine like Anduril, I might have to also consider this idea while the driver board is out.

The driver pocket is too shallow as is, but I'm sure one could grind out a little bit of aluminum in just one spot to create clearance to stack a second 7135 (and then insulate it against accidental contact with the aluminum. Ideally such a mod would be paired with a firmware tweak to shift some steps from the FET channel to the 7135 channel and tweak the 7135 PWM values so the overall profile remains similar.

Unless I'm missing something else, however, it seems to me like this could be a fairly straightforward refinement to an already great light.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Apr 12, 2018)

Also, I think my wife has stolen my D4.

We have an infant who currently uses a cosleeper next to our bed.

The D4 tailstanding on the nightstand provides a better low light level than a night light, is more convenient since it's easily at arm's reach to turn on, and you can take it with you when needed for tasks like diaper changes.

She won't admit she has stolen it, but she complains if I take it for other tasks and it isn't there when she puts him down to sleep for the night.


----------



## Tixx (Apr 12, 2018)

iamlucky13 said:


> Also, I think my wife has stolen my D4.
> 
> We have an infant who currently uses a cosleeper next to our bed.
> 
> ...



LOL! I like the story


----------



## Hugh Johnson (Apr 12, 2018)

I've realized I need to reclaim the AA light my wife uses so I have an excuse to buy another light.


----------



## noboneshotdog (Apr 12, 2018)

Bucklight said:


> I spent weeks combing through the various options for 18650 lights and finally chose the Emisar D4, and now it's not in stock at MtnElectronics. Doh! That's what I get for waiting so long.



You can also get them from International Outdoors but will ship from China. Typically takes about 2 weeks to the US.


----------



## Brutus (Apr 26, 2018)

@Keitho: I'll send him a message, thank you for the help!


----------



## eh4 (Apr 26, 2018)

Also, if they're out of stock at Mountain electronics, odds are that they're ordering more from International Outdoors and might already be a ways into the two week shipping time. 
Just a thought, I've had good results with the back inn stock email notification that Mountain Electronics uses.


----------



## ChrisGarrett (Apr 26, 2018)

noboneshotdog said:


> You can also get them from International Outdoors but will ship from China. Typically takes about 2 weeks to the US.



I ordered my D4 in late December and my D1S from Hank, at Intl-Outdoors and both came in right at 21 days.

Free shipping. 

I love Richard, but he didn't have what I wanted--cyan 219CT and grey XP-L HI 3A.

Chris


----------



## Nev (Apr 27, 2018)

I just ordered a new D1s & it got here in a week after the shipping notice.


----------



## vadimax (Jun 10, 2018)

noboneshotdog said:


> You can also get them from International Outdoors but will ship from China. Typically takes about 2 weeks to the US.



If anyone cares. This shop sells D4Ti with a discount right now. Me stupid. Me ordered


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Jun 10, 2018)

I ordered another D4 from Hank as well, this time with a warmer emitter and aluminum body. I think there are only a few of the Ti-Cu models left in just a couple color options. Just remember that these puppies are not made for sustained maximum output; only brief blasts because of the rapid heat build up. Otherwise, they are really great, no kidding. Not everyone needs the kind of flexibility this user interface offers, and I have disagreed some times with the computer inside the light, but for some of us, it is currently the best.


----------



## ven (Jun 10, 2018)

Its good to have choices, i like single modes or lights that always start at a known level(know what your getting , every time). I enjoy infinite control ring(v11r) and rotary (HDS), i also enjoy the ramping UI used on the D4/D1. Its not perfect, but overall i think its great. Short cuts to low,high and even 350ma level around 140lm give/take(maybe most used level). 
My works one still lives in my tool bag as a back up(219c) which the 5000k is about perfect for me. Often i get it out and have a few WOW moments for no other reason than because i can . I dont know how tough long term, i dont know if it would take a beating or not. But i do know its fun every time the little beast gets powered up! If you cant have a bit of fun with our lights now and then.............well its just fun





Stashed away.............spot the d4





Congrats on another Kitro, they are quite addictive little lights. I have managed to resist the ti ones simply because i know they are too heavy to carry. After a few little uses it would be in a draw. Getting good at this these days(resisting lol).


----------



## iamlucky13 (Jun 10, 2018)

vadimax said:


> If anyone cares. This shop sells D4Ti with a discount right now. Me stupid. Me ordered



Price drops all around, actually.

International Outdoors now has the D4, D1, and D1s all for $35 ($10 more for the XP-L D4), which is $5 less than they debuted at.
The D4Ti is $60, which is $20 less than the initial price.

Mountain Electronics so far only has the discounted price on the D4Ti.


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Jun 10, 2018)

Thanks ven, your perspective on these flashlights helped me make the decision to get one, many months ago.

The Ti-Cu is not too heavy to carry for an every-night-light. It feels pleasantly substantial like a brass, copper or presumably titanium (Oveready) BOSS.

Additionally, it weighs only 25g lighter than the D1S, making for a fairly balanced, dandy flood/throw pair for fun nocturnal outings. The idea of not having a thrower and area-light is just... lacking in satisfaction for an evening of portable illumination, one opinion.

AND, it turns out the side switch is very handy for normal carry while walking in the field; that is, hands are relaxed at the side, moving forward and back with the bezel facing forward roughly parallel to the ground, index finger on the switch of the D4, third finger on the switch of the D1S. This type of carry is aided by a shock cord lanyard about the wrist.


----------



## ven (Jun 10, 2018)

:rock:

Yes i find side switch lights like the d1/d4(dont have d1s) very comfortable in hand. In fact i tend to prefer side switch for general use.


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Jun 25, 2018)

2 nights now with the Aluminum D4 with XPL HI V2 5D; really nice. The gray smooth finish has a hint of blue. Smooth, lubricated threads, excellent finish. Gets hot in a flash going to maximum on these hot summer nights. Trying a different method of use; so far quite good. So used to 5000K where white is white, but for late night in the forest and home, the warmer cast is nice. Has more yellow and less red than the Oveready DIP Nichia 4000K dropin, but that pretty much really only shows up when directly compared. And still using a 5000K thrower as a companion to this for significant dog walks. Thanks again to ven and other members for talking this flashlight up, as well as the consistent drumbeat for warmer light at night when the circumstances are right.


----------



## archimedes (Jun 25, 2018)

The 5D XPL used in these Emisar are nice indeed


----------



## vadimax (Jun 26, 2018)

Just received my D4Ti. Double clicked it... 

Ok, now I have an excellent hand warmer.


----------



## frigide (Jul 30, 2018)

Where can i buy the best 18350 for my D4.


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Jul 30, 2018)

frigide said:


> Where can i buy the best 18350 for my D4.


Mountain Electronics. 

The one to get is "Vapcell 18350 110mAh 10A flat top.


----------



## frigide (Jul 31, 2018)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Mountain Electronics.
> 
> The one to get is "Vapcell 18350 110mAh 10A flat top.



Is have to buy from the international webshop anders they don't sell battery's.


----------



## iamlucky13 (Jul 31, 2018)

What country do you need to have your batteries shipped to?


----------



## frigide (Aug 1, 2018)

iamlucky13 said:


> What country do you need to have your batteries shipped to?



Netherlands.


----------



## ven (Aug 1, 2018)

frigide said:


> Netherlands.



nkon your side, 
https://www.nkon.nl/rechargeable/14500-16340-18350-18490-18500/keeppower-imr-18350-1200mah-10a.html

Edit, not sure on stock, i can get some from a friend here at ecoluxshop. See if he ships to you, if not i can buy and ship for you. Just PM me if you need help


----------

