# Zebralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50



## jak

Just added to Zebralight's spreadsheet today -Available (allegedly) some time in 2016!



Cree XHP50 (5000K)
CRI of 93-95
$99
Floody (Frosted Lens)

Anyone interested?


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## jak

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

@markr6 haha, beat you by 5 minutes!


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## markr6

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

AH you beat me by 5 minutes!

I'm ALLLLL over this one

edit: beat me again by 30 seconds 

Basically, this is the HOLY GRAIL LIGHT for me. At least on paper. We'll see. The frosted lens could end up being TOO floody.


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## jak

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



markr6 said:


> AH you beat me by 5 minutes!
> 
> I'm ALLLLL over this one


It's also funny to me that we came up with the exact same thread title! I got the update about the spreadsheet update in my car on the way to work, was wondering who might post before me.

I wonder if the frosted lens is required to achieve the high CRI level. How would this thing perform with a clear lens? I wonder.


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## kj2

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

Digg the high CRI, but would prefer the tint to be around 4000K.


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## markr6

Yeah I got the update but didn't check my email until just now.

They also started off with frosted lenses on the new headlamps (H600Fd III). I find them to be the slightest bit TOO floody. Especially for a torch; headlamp is OK. I think I would prefer the standard lens, but this one is still sounding good so I don't get too caught up in that at this point.

5000K, 93CRI...sounds hard to screw this one up. HIGH EXPECTATIONS! IME too many dirty 4400/4500 tints from ZL, so 5000 should be nice.


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## Mr. Tone

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

This could be really great, I will look forward to more and would like to see some tests on this emitter that is supposedly capable of that high of CRI at that CCT. Time to do some searching.


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## maukka

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

Holy awesomeness. Until now I was super happy with my non-plus.

edit: oh wait, this was SC600 not H600, no worries then


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## snowlover91

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

Wow so Zebralight is trying to drain my bank account once again lol, I can't keep up with all these awesome lights and more poor wallet... Seriously though ZL is going all out with high CRI options. Their regular SC63 and MK3 are now 80cri and they plan to release high CRI (90+) variants later this year. Now with this new light getting 93-95cri at 5k? I wonder if they'll push 2k lumens from it and if it will be unprotected only or not.


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## MX421

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



kj2 said:


> Digg the high CRI, but would prefer the tint to be around 4000K.



+1

That will be the SC600Fcd III Plus - XHP50 I suppose. Personally, i'd prefer the H600FC III to have the same CRI...


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## snowlover91

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



jak said:


> It's also funny to me that we came up with the exact same thread title! I got the update about the spreadsheet update in my car on the way to work, was wondering who might post before me.
> 
> I wonder if the frosted lens is required to achieve the high CRI level. How would this thing perform with a clear lens? I wonder.



I'm thinking the frosted lens might be to prevent the donut shape that the XHP50 emitters are known for. I believe the Nitecore models using this, even with a heavy orange peel reflector, exhibit a little of the donut effect when shown on a wall up close. They probably went with a floody lens to prevent that from happening or it could just be they want a high CRI floody version of the MK3 like they have with their other lights.


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## MX421

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



jak said:


> @markr6 haha, beat you by 5 minutes!



...but Jak, in your rush you misspelled it! Zedralight?


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## twistedraven

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

People probably prefer lower color temperatures because they have the deep reds that lower CRI higher color temperature lights can't produce. Once you start getting into 93-95cri range, I'm thinking even 5000k lights will have lots of inner-warmth to them.

I can't freakin' wait for this light to come out. It's my dream light as well, although I would have preferred it either be a headlamp with frosted lens, or the SC600 with no frosted lens. I wonder why they couldn't use the XH35 high CRI emitter to combat the donut shape.


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## markr6

The donut wasn't a problem at all in my Nitecore EC4S (XHP50). That also had an orange peel, but maybe the bigger/deeper reflector hid any irregularities?


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## uofaengr

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

Just saw this on a random look at the spreadsheet. Since it's in the SC600 body style, it'll likely be a pass for me as I just won't carry anything with a head that big. I assume this is the emitter they'll be going with now in the H600Fd (of course right after I just ordered my H600Fd) which would be very nice. Off topic but didn't want to take a chance that a new H600Fd will have limitations for 65mm batteries only so sprung for the current one. Also kind of surprised they're making this variant of the SC600 also rather than limiting it to the SC63.


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## jak

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



MX421 said:


> ...but Jak, in your rush you misspelled it! Zedralight?


Ahhhhhh! Crud, that's embarrassing. No wait, Zedralight is a cheap knockoff brand...


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## markr6

jak said:


> Ahhhhhh! Crud, that's embarrassing. No wait, Zebralight is a cheap knockoff brand...
> 
> Can we get a moderator to correct that?!?



I think you can edit it within 72 hours of creating it. Edit Post>Advanced


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## scs

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

Curious how ZL will carry on with the still relatively new H600Fd Mk3 and H600Fc Mk3 with the XM-L2 Easy White.
Nominally, they are in the current generation, but the introduction of the equal or even higher CRI XHP35 and XHP50 emitters effectively outdates their emitters in a way.


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## jak

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



markr6 said:


> I think you can edit it within 72 hours of creating it. Edit Post>Advanced


Genius -thanks bro!


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## markr6

Just used my SC600w II a bit. I'm sure going to miss that beam. I feel like any more flood is too much. But everything else sounds great so I'll probably end up trying one of these.


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## fnsooner

jak said:


> Anyone interested?


Not interested. Mostly because it is a 600 variant. When they start trickin’ out the SC63 though, I hope they make different decisions like using a clear lens and getting that color temp down. That said, an SC63 with 95 CRI and a 5000K color temp with a clear lens would be hard to ignore.

I think I will be setting on the sidelines for most of 2016. Maybe I have reached my saturation point.


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## Tachead

I love the high CRI and temp although a 4000-4500K option would be nice too but, I dont get the frosted lens? Why would anyone want a frosted lens on such a large light? I can see using a frosted on a headlamp or a smaller light like the SC5F but, it seams weird on a 18650 light. For me, floody beam profiles are great for working at low to medium range but, for that not that many lumens are needed really and a much smaller and lighter light like the SC32 or SC5 could do it. I think an orange peel reflector and normal lens would have made this light more desirable. Now, if they put this emitter in the H600Fd/c MKIII it would be even better then it already is with the even higher CRI. Mind you, it is pretty great already.

I would like to see a H600Fc MKIII with a 4000-4500K 95CRI version of this emitter. I would buy that for sure. It would be a perfect complement to my new H600Fd MKIII.


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## KeepingItLight

Tachead said:


> I love the high CRI and temp although a 4000-4500K option would be nice too but, I dont get the frosted lens? ... Now, if they put this emitter in the H600Fd/c MKIII it would be even better then it already is with the even higher CRI. Mind you, it is pretty great already.



I could not agree more about putting this high-CRI emitter in a headlamp! Be it flashlight or headlamp, however, 90+ CRI models like this one are bound to be my favorite ZebraLights yet!

As others have pointed out, the XHP50 and XHP70 have been known to produce a dark cross in their beams at close ranges. The primary reason for using a frosted lens is probably to eliminate this. Another reason for using a frosted lens is to reduce any tint shifts present in the corona and spill. I do not know about the XHP50, but the XM-L2 and XP-L frequently exhibit green coronas and purple spills. A frosted lens should help to blend those out. 

Among others, flashlight reviewer selfbuilt has often stated his preference for a diffuser on the lights he uses outside. Compared to a frosted lens, of course, the big advantage of a diffuser is that you can take it off when you need more throw. Here are the remarks selfbuilt made in his review of the Eagletac G25C2-II.



selfbuilt said:


> *I personally use diffused lights a lot*, especially for walking the dog at night. With a traditional beam, I tend to find myself distracted and tracking the hotspot (i.e., the "follow-the-bouncing-ball" effect). With a good diffuser, I can pay proper attention to what my dog is doing, and what is in the local environment. But when you hear a sudden sound off in the distance, a screwed-on style diffuser cover is a handicap to seeing what is going on. So while I may like a good diffuser, I also like having the option of decent throw at a flick of the finger – as this diffuser cover allows. :twothumbs
> 
> [Emphasis added]




For the way I usually use a flashlight, I, too, tend to prefer the wider hot spot and brighter spill given by a diffuser or frosted lens.


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## TCY

Yesterday I watched the Armytek 2016 shotshow video by goinggear and thought I need one of those 1600 ANSI lumen pocket thrower just for fun. Now that I see this.. maybe next time Armytek. ZL please come and take my money!


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## KeepingItLight

I was impressed by the Armytek light myself. One of the flashlights shown in the video uses the *Cree XHP35* emitter. Armytek, therefore, must have developed its own 12-volt driver. 

For me, however, neutral tint and high-CRI trumps everything else. If I can get 900-1000 lumens with 90+ CRI, I don't need anything more out of a compact flooder like this.


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## TCY

KeepingItLight said:


> I was impressed by the Armytek light myself. One of the flashlights shown in the video uses the *Cree XHP35* emitter. Armytek, therefore, must have developed its own 12-volt driver.
> 
> For me, however, neutral tint and high-CRI trumps everything else. If I can get 900-1000 lumens with 90+ CRI, I don't need anything more out of a compact flooder like this.



Same here. NW and 93 minimum CRI is just way too hard for me to resist. ZL is trying to set the new milestone here.


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## Tachead

KeepingItLight said:


> I was impressed by the Armytek light myself. One of the flashlights shown in the video uses the *Cree XHP35* emitter. Armytek, therefore, must have developed its own 12-volt driver.
> 
> *For me, however, neutral tint and high-CRI trumps everything else*. If I can get 900-1000 lumens with 90+ CRI, I don't need anything more out of a compact flooder like this.



+1


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## TCY

For those of you who are waiting for a SC63 housed variant with clear lens, I have some bad news.

I just bugged ZL customer service, and their reply is that the electronic components is currently too big for the SC63 body to house. They will try to shrink the driver so they fit into the SC63 later this year or next year but this is not a guaranteed success.

As for the clear lens, ZL says that clear lens don't work well with XHP50s. I wonder if they can figure something out to make clear lens work as well like what Nitecore did with the EC4S?


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## TCY

Some further intel. Yes I bugged them twice today.

ZL will only see if they can make the SC63 version work if the SC600Fd III Plus is "released successfully". Good sales record?

Regarding brightness & beam distance, I asked them that are we expecting ~10M-20M maximum throw for the SC600Fd III Plus just like ZL's frosted lens headlight line, and the answer is that the SC600Fd III Plus is much brighter even with frosted lens equipped. Based on this I'm assuming that they will set the turbo to some 2000 lumens and we will see a wall of light. A wall of neutral white and 93+CRI light.

Just shut up and take my money.


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## richardcpf

Does plus stands for the + we will see on the beam? :nana:


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## fnsooner

TCY said:


> For those of you who are waiting for a SC63 housed variant with clear lens, I have some bad news.
> 
> I just bugged ZL customer service, and their reply is that the electronic components is currently too big for the SC63 body to house. They will try to shrink the driver so they fit into the SC63 later this year or next year but this is not a guaranteed success.
> 
> As for the clear lens, ZL says that clear lens don't work well with XHP50s. I wonder if they can figure something out to make clear lens work as well like what Nitecore did with the EC4S?



Thanks for the heads up. I have the SC600w MK III HI coming in the next few weeks. This will give me the opportunity to see if I can adjust to the size. I carried a first generation SC600w for over a year and came to the conclusion that it was just too big to carry every day and swore off of it and embraced the SC6x series. The SC600 MK III is quite a bit shorter than the original SC600 and is the same length as the SC62w I have carried lately. Maybe I can adapt. I will probably sit back and see how things shake out. 

I will just have to slum it with my new SC600w MK III HI and SC63w.:shakehead


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## scs

TCY said:


> ZL will only see if they can make the SC63 version work if the SC600Fd III Plus is "released successfully". Good sales record?



Give and take, both ways.
ZL has to make them good first, though.
Then we buy.
Then ZL makes some more and something even better.
Then we buy some more.
And so on.

It's on ZL to break this cycle, should they produce a fail.


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## twistedraven

Did you ask about the potential for XHP35 hi cri version? Iirc, the xhp35 has 90+ cri options as well, but since the dies are butted together, it doesn't suffer from any artifacts.

2000 lumens sounds yummy btw.


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## Tac Gunner

I have been considering getting my first Zebralight and this may just be it. I love the xhp50 p60 I have. Orange peel reflector and driven at 3 amps makes for a nice floody pocket rocket. This will be great


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## TCY

twistedraven said:


> Did you ask about the potential for XHP35 hi cri version? Iirc, the xhp35 has 90+ cri options as well, but since the dies are butted together, it doesn't suffer from any artifacts.
> 
> 2000 lumens sounds yummy btw.



If I remember correctly ZL does have intentions for a SC63W/SC600W MK3 90+CRI version. I read this in the other SC600 MK3 thread, but I can't remember which page it was.


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## TCY

scs said:


> Give and take, both ways.
> ZL has to make them good first, though.
> Then we buy.
> Then ZL makes some more and something even better.
> Then we buy some more.
> And so on.
> 
> It's on ZL to break this cycle, should they produce a fail.



ZL has been making superb flashlights so far and I doubt this one will disappoint.


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## recDNA

5000k HI CRI perfect for me. Would prefer normal lens. XHP is floody anyway. Never the less I will buy one unless reviews are terrible. I have always wanted a small, high output, HI CRI flashlight. I would also prefer this setup in the more pocketable sc63 format.


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## jak

Wow, 37 posts into this thread and not a single complaint about pogopins or unprotected cells. Hope I didn't jinx it.

@TCY Kudos to you for contacting them (TWICE in 1 day) and getting answers! I wish ZL had (and utilized) a Twitter feed or something for connecting with customers and fans.


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## snowlover91

TCY said:


> For those of you who are waiting for a SC63 housed variant with clear lens, I have some bad news.
> 
> I just bugged ZL customer service, and their reply is that the electronic components is currently too big for the SC63 body to house. They will try to shrink the driver so they fit into the SC63 later this year or next year but this is not a guaranteed success.
> 
> As for the clear lens, ZL says that clear lens don't work well with XHP50s. I wonder if they can figure something out to make clear lens work as well like what Nitecore did with the EC4S?



According to what they had told me the plans for the SC63 are to release a floody version (4K and 5k tint) next using the XHP35 and then a high CRI of 90+ for the SC63, using the xhp35 also. I don't think they will use the xhp50 in the SC63 right now as it seems like they'll stick with the xhp35 for their other models also.


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## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> 5000k HI CRI perfect for me. Would prefer normal lens. XHP is floody anyway. Never the less I will buy one unless reviews are terrible. I have always wanted a small, high output, HI CRI flashlight. I would also prefer this setup in the more pocketable sc63 format.




If they release the SC63c/d models with 4000k and 5000k using the xhp35 and 90+ CRI I'll buy a couple. They probably won't until spring or summer but I really hope they decide to release these variants.


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## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> According to what they had told me the plans for the SC63 are to release a floody version (4K and 5k tint) next using the XHP35 and then a high CRI of 90+ for the SC63, using the xhp35 also. I don't think they will use the xhp50 in the SC63 right now as it seems like they'll stick with the xhp35 for their other models also.



That is what I meant. ZL is only going to attempt for a XHP50 variant SC63 later this year or next year if the SC600 variant sells well.


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## TCY

jak said:


> Wow, 37 posts into this thread and not a single complaint about pogopins or unprotected cells. Hope I didn't jinx it.
> 
> @TCY Kudos to you for contacting them (TWICE in 1 day) and getting answers! I wish ZL had (and utilized) a Twitter feed or something for connecting with customers and fans.



It's either me or one of the ZL fans out there, someone has to quench our thirst :nana:


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## mk2rocco

Might be time for me to finally learn ZL's unique UI.


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## psychbeat

I'm in the ~4000k camp - hope they do a headlamp with XHP50 in HiCRI 4000K 
Good stuff!!!


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## snowlover91

TCY said:


> That is what I meant. ZL is only going to attempt for a XHP50 variant SC63 later this year or next year if the SC600 variant sells well.



Ah gotcha, sorry I must have read your original post wrong! I like that they are pushing hard for high CRI, as in 90+ for many of their models now. That seems to be their theme for 2016 with the 93-95cri XHP50 and possibly a 90+ SC63 also. Would love to see them add a high CRI variant of the SC5 that gets 90+ and also one for the SC32. It's nice to see a company though that understands the value of it and is producing more models with higher CRI compared with the rest of the market. After using neutral whites especially 80+ CRI and better the 65-70cri cool white used by other companies just looks... Horrible.


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## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> Ah gotcha, sorry I must have read your original post wrong! I like that they are pushing hard for high CRI, as in 90+ for many of their models now. That seems to be their theme for 2016 with the 93-95cri XHP50 and possibly a 90+ SC63 also. Would love to see them add a high CRI variant of the SC5 that gets 90+ and also one for the SC32. It's nice to see a company though that understands the value of it and is producing more models with higher CRI compared with the rest of the market. After using neutral whites especially 80+ CRI and better the 65-70cri cool white used by other companies just looks... Horrible.



I started from a P12, now I gave my P12 away. No way I could put up with the 6500K 65CRI beam anymore. As flashaholics we adore companies like ZL that steps into the neutral& high CRI zone. My only wish right now is a SC63 housing a high CRI XHP50 with a clear lens. 2000 lumens of high CRI goodness with some throwing capabilities in an EDC sized body would be a dream come true.


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## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> the 65-70cri cool white used by other companies just looks... Horrible.



I know it's insane! And for what? An extra ~8-11% lumens? Pass.


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## Tachead

markr6 said:


> I know it's insane! And for what? An extra ~8-11% lumens? Pass.



I think its because the emitters are cheaper and easier to source. Also because they still sell fine because most average flashlight buyers dont know the difference and only see lumen count. I am glad some companies are recognizing there is a demand though because I love neutral white hi CRI as well. In fact, I wont even buy anything but neutral white or preferably hi CRI NW these days.


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## shira

psychbeat said:


> I'm in the ~*4000k* camp - hope they do a headlamp with XHP50 in HiCRI *4000K*
> Good stuff!!!


A color temperature of *4 million* wouldn't be visible to the human eye. Assuming you had any eyes left after your head was flash-burned to a crisp.


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## psychbeat

shira said:


> A color temperature of *4 million* wouldn't be visible to the human eye. Assuming you had any eyes left after your head was flash-burned to a crisp.



K = KELVIN around these parts brah


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## StorminMatt

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



kj2 said:


> Digg the high CRI, but would prefer the tint to be around 4000K.



Maybe they will make an SC600Fc III. Not sure, though, since this would have to compete with the SC600w.


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## markr6

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

You guys and your 4000K! I'm surprised. But definitely a million times better than any cool white junk above 6000K.

Now that I've thought about this one more, I'm not feeling good about the frosted lens. Too bad  but I may still try it out.

I think manufacturers continue to make "almost perfect" lights just to drive me crazy.


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## TCY

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*

I just checked NC's EC4S runtime, 2 X 18650 gives 45 minutes on turbo (2150lm). Unless ZL decides not to go lumen crazy on this light, its circuitry needs to be ultra efficient to impress on paper. Or could it be Nitecore using miserable circuitry on EC4S?


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## Tachead

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



markr6 said:


> *You guys and your 4000K! I'm surprised. But definitely a million times better than any cool white junk above 6000K.
> *
> Now that I've thought about this one more, I'm not feeling good about the frosted lens. Too bad  but I may still try it out.
> 
> I think manufacturers continue to make "almost perfect" lights just to drive me crazy.



I actually think I am going to try a 4000K med/hi CRI. I got a H600Fd MKIII(5000K) a while back and am actually finding it on the edge of too cool for outdoors(even my D25C Nichia 219b is pretty cool). I am finding that the warmer side of neutral looks/works better for an outdoor light and makes the the foliage look nicer and feels more warm and comforting. The question is if 4000K is too warm? As of now, I am finding 4300-4500K best but, have never tried warmer, yet... I might have to order the H600Fc MKIII too for backup/comparison.

The average household light bulb is soft white(2700K) and thats what makes most comfortable so, I often wonder why people want to go so cool with a flashlight.


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## markr6

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



Tachead said:


> I am finding that the warmer side of neutral looks/works better for an outdoor light and makes the the foliage look nicer and feels more warm and comforting.



Can't argue there. Even after running for 30 minutes with my H600w (4400K), it starts to look cool in comparison to many other street lights, headlights, etc. For outdoors, it is good to lean towards warm. In general, I think I just try to hit a sweet spot which can work fair-excellent in most situations.

I don't know how I used to backpack with the Petzl purplish-blue junk! And if it's snowy out, uuugh. A cool, unforgiving nightmare!


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## Tachead

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



markr6 said:


> Can't argue there. Even after running for 30 minutes with my H600w (4400K), it starts to look cool in comparison to many other street lights, headlights, etc. For outdoors, it is good to lean towards warm. In general, I think I just try to hit a sweet spot which can work fair-excellent in most situations.
> 
> *I don't know how I used to backpack with the Petzl purplish-blue junk!* And if it's snowy out, uuugh. A cool, unforgiving nightmare!



Me neither. Petzl makes good headlamps though that never let me down(my last was the Tikka XP2 Core) but, their tints are terrible.


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## uofaengr

Tachead said:


> I actually think I am going to try a 4000K med/hi CRI. I got a H600Fd MKIII(5000K) a while back and am actually finding it on the edge of too cool for outdoors(even my D25C Nichia 219b is pretty cool). I am finding that the warmer side of neutral looks/works better for an outdoor light and makes the the foliage look nicer and feels more warm and comforting. The question is if 4000K is too warm? As of now, I am finding 4300-4500K best but, have never tried warmer, yet... I might have to order the H600Fc MKIII too for backup/comparison.
> 
> The average household light bulb is soft white(2700K) and thats what makes most comfortable so, I often wonder why people want to go so cool with a flashlight.



One reason I leaned toward the H600Fc was that I have a BLF A6 in 5A tint, which by my measurements, is right at 4000-4100K on most modes, and if you ignore white wall hunting and putting it beside your best neutral white tints, it's quite pleasant in use. In my uses I look at a decent bit of colored wiring and it's very pleasant to use outdoors also, and the reds, oranges, greens, all pop nicely, and it's not high CRI. 

The question is how close to 4000K will you actually get with your copy of the light? We know the "d" model is more like 4700K (a relief to me) on at least one model, and I think I've seen someone say their "c" is more like 3700K. Is that too warm? I don't know. I have a ToolVN in XP-L HI 4000K, and it measures 4400K and is very, very pleasant (could be my favorite tint of all my lights) with near zero tint shift, but it's definitely not 4000K. Moral of the story, it was a good bit off from nominal 4000K but on the good side (for me). 

So for whatever reason, I went with the "d" model. Maybe the little bit of extra brightness got me, maybe I was afraid I'd get a "c" that's a little too warm. As long as there's not a bunch of green in the "d", I'll probably be cool with it.


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## scs

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



markr6 said:


> Can't argue there. Even after running for 30 minutes with my H600w (4400K), it starts to look cool in comparison to many other street lights, headlights, etc. For outdoors, it is good to lean towards warm. In general, I think I just try to hit a sweet spot which can work fair-excellent in most situations.
> 
> I don't know how I used to backpack with the Petzl purplish-blue junk! And if it's snowy out, uuugh. A cool, unforgiving nightmare!



Your eyes do their own white balance when there are multiple tints present, so the 4400K will look extra warm in the presence of cool white light, and extra cool in the presence of warm white light.


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## psychbeat

*Re: Zedralight SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50*



scs said:


> Your eyes do their own white balance when there are multiple tints present, so the 4400K will look extra warm in the presence of cool white light, and extra cool in the presence of warm white light.



True but fog and damp are constant. 
Hence, some of my ugly yellow & warm tints having more function outside in muddy foggy wet conditions. 
5000K can still back scatter in fog and wash out wet rock and root in my experience - obviously better than 64cri cool white tho


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## recDNA

5000k is my favorite tint. I avoid being outdoors in fog. Honestly, I do. 5000k if perfect for me indoors and outdoors. 4000K looks yellow. Yuck.BTW, I hate indoor incandescent bulbs. I can't read under warm light. I use fluorescent or led for reading whenever possible.


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## Tachead

recDNA said:


> 5000k is my favorite tint. *I avoid being outdoors in fog. Honestly, I do. *5000k if perfect for me indoors and outdoors. 4000K looks yellow. Yuck.BTW, I hate indoor incandescent bulbs. I can't read under warm light. I use fluorescent or led for reading whenever possible.



That's not really an option for us outdoorsmen and country folk lol. I will take outdoors in the fog over indoors in the city any day myself:rock:


----------



## recDNA

Tachead said:


> That's not really an option for us outdoorsmen and country folk lol. I will take outdoors in the fog over indoors in the city any day myself:rock:


I live in the woods! Surrounded by conservation land. When it is dark and foggy I stay in so critters don't get me! LOL 

You may have guessed although I live in the woods I grew up in the city. Would you believe I have never once explored my woods! Mosquitos, deer ticks, muddy water, critters - NAH

I had a coyote hanging out on my lawn one entire summer. She didn't bother me and I didn't bother her. She didn't like the woods either.


----------



## Strintguy

Is this emitter more efficient on medium modes? More run-time at 300-500 lumens?


----------



## snowlover91

Strintguy said:


> Is this emitter more efficient on medium modes? More run-time at 300-500 lumens?



Although the specs aren't out I would think it would be more efficient or brighter on the medium modes, depending on how ZL programs the circuit for it. According to Cree the max output of this led is 2500 lumens and supposedly it runs a little cooler at comparable light output levels as the XM-L2. They're using a high CRI version producing 93-95 at 5k tint which is impressive. I'm guessing they will get 1500-2000 lumens from it based on the emitter used and the MK3 heatsinking.


----------



## Strintguy

Sound good to me


----------



## twistedraven

If the xhp-50s used in the Nitecore EC4S and Fenix TK35UE-- both or which are 2x 18650 and larger bodies-- only output up to about 2100lumens, I don't see how Zebralight can get away with 2000 lumens on this high CRI variant with only 1x 18650. Seems like it would drop rapidly if anything.

I'm guessing around 1600 lumens.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> I live in the woods! Surrounded by conservation land. When it is dark and foggy I stay in so critters don't get me! LOL
> 
> You may have guessed although I live in the woods I grew up in the city. Would you believe I have never once explored my woods! Mosquitos, deer ticks, muddy water, critters - NAH
> 
> I had a coyote hanging out on my lawn one entire summer. She didn't bother me and I didn't bother her. She didn't like the woods either.




Lol, suck it up butter cup

You should, its great getting away from it all.

Lol, you should have gave her a headlamp:candle:

Sometimes when hiking, climbing, backpacking, hunting, exc. that kind of weather rolls in and there is no place to retreat to. Then that headlamp or lights performance is even more important.


----------



## snowlover91

twistedraven said:


> If the xhp-50s used in the Nitecore EC4S and Fenix TK35UE-- both or which are 2x 18650 and larger bodies-- only output up to about 2100lumens, I don't see how Zebralight can get away with 2000 lumens on this high CRI variant with only 1x 18650. Seems like it would drop rapidly if anything.
> 
> I'm guessing around 1600 lumens.



Yeah 1500 lumens seems more likely, however they do have more efficient circuits than Nitecore so it's possible with the pogo pins and redesigned boost circuit that they could get 1800+ lumens. I'm not sure what battery life would be like at that level though, probably less than an hour under the PID control. Someone needs to email them to see how soon it will be officially announced! I've sent them about 3-4 emails the past few days so I'll give them a break for now lol.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Someone school me on what this xhp50 high CRI light brings to the table vs. the nichia 219 series? Thanks.


----------



## twistedraven

Not very many high output N219 lights that are able to output tons of lumens out of a 1x18650 form factor. Also, N219 lights are on the slightly warmer side at 4500 kelvin, and average around at around 90 cri. This would be a higher color temperature at supposedly 5000 kelvin, and 93-95 CRI, so approaching towards sunlight a little more.


----------



## seasam

If you looks at existing Cree documentation and use pct.cree.com the XHP50 output should be about the same as the XHP35 given the CRI and available bins between the two. Maybe ZL has a trick up their sleeve though :shrug:


----------



## Tachead

twistedraven said:


> If the xhp-50s used in the Nitecore EC4S and Fenix TK35UE-- both or which are 2x 18650 and larger bodies-- only output up to about 2100lumens, I don't see how Zebralight can get away with 2000 lumens on this high CRI variant with only 1x 18650. Seems like it would drop rapidly if anything.
> 
> I'm guessing around 1600 lumens.



Remember too that this is a much higher CRI version of the XHP-50 so, it will already be lower output then the 70ish CRI versions used in those lights. I guess 1000-1200lumes at most but, lets hope ZL surprises us all. Keep in mind as well that no matter what, it will only run at this level for a very short period of time due to battery and heat restrictions.


----------



## texas cop

With the XHP-35 Zebralight had to quaddrupple the working voltage. In the XHP-50 they have the option of only needing to double the voltage. That might give them that extra level of circuit efficiency they need to put out 1400-1800 lumens but until its out and metered properly it's all conjecture. I think most will be happy with the final product, Zebralight has done well by us so far.


----------



## snowlover91

It's my understanding that they made the jump to 12v emitters since their new drivers are designed for this. Assuming they didn't design a new driver for the SC600 Plus I would imagine they'll use the 12v version of the XHP50 with the same driver as the Mk3 and SC63 with minor tweaks to boost output (assuming they do). It may be a 1000-1200 lumen light or they may push it hard and go for 2k lumens. Either way if it's 1000 lumens at 5k tint and 93-95 CRI it should be an excellent light if it performs like their other lights do.


----------



## Fireclaw18

snowlover91 said:


> It's my understanding that they made the jump to 12v emitters since their new drivers are designed for this. Assuming they didn't design a new driver for the SC600 Plus I would imagine they'll use the 12v version of the XHP50 with the same driver as the Mk3 and SC63 with minor tweaks to boost output (assuming they do). It may be a 1000-1200 lumen light or they may push it hard and go for 2k lumens. Either way if it's 1000 lumens at 5k tint and 93-95 CRI it should be an excellent light if it performs like their other lights do.



I'd be interested in seeing the beam pattern after someone replaces the frosted lens with a clear one.


----------



## snowlover91

Fireclaw18 said:


> I'd be interested in seeing the beam pattern after someone replaces the frosted lens with a clear one.



That may be hard to do since it has a press fit bezel, I'm not sure how one would go about removing it and replacing the lens.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Probably not the thread for this, but it sure would be neat if someone from CPF knew someone from Zebralight! 

A little community outreach program. They get free advertising and customer feedback, CPF gets thrown some bones on design thoughts and future products.

Just a thought. Carry on.


----------



## recDNA

800+ lumens at CRI 93+ 5000k would force me to buy an unprotected 18650...something I really did not want to do. Really that would be a dream light for me.


----------



## Mr. Tone

^
You are right, it would be a dream light for a lot of CPFers.


----------



## cyberescudo

I hope in a zebralight headlamp with the same features.


----------



## staticx57

Any news on this light? Dream light for sure.


----------



## snowlover91

staticx57 said:


> Any news on this light? Dream light for sure.



It probably won't be released until the summer so I wouldn't expect anything until June or late May. Hard to wait for it though, it has the potential to be an awesome light.


----------



## akhyar

This light and the SC600 mkIII HI would make a nice combo.
A flooder and a thrower with compact bodies


----------



## neutralwhite

Would this LED be available to buy separately somewhere?.
thanks.


----------



## Mr. Tone

I am really looking forward to this, I hope it's not going to be vaporware.


----------



## newbie66

Too floody for me. But we'll see. Still several months before they release it. I doubt they would be able to meet the May-June release date.


----------



## texas cop

neutralwhite said:


> Would this LED be available to buy separately somewhere?.
> thanks.



This LED has already been on the market for over a year in the Cree XHP35, 50 and 70 series. All 3 are a composite of 4 smaller very closely placed LED's done in 2s2p for 6 volt XHP50, 70 and in 4s for 12 volt XHP35, 50, 70. Lights currently in these formats are 2 cell or more. Zebralight is trying to build the first small single cell 18650 flashlight using a voltage booster. The smallest currently made light discounting custom makers here is the Nitecore EC4S.


----------



## staticx57

texas cop said:


> This LED has already been on the market for over a year in the Cree XHP35, 50 and 70 series. All 3 are a composite of 4 smaller very closely placed LED's done in 2s2p for 6 volt XHP50, 70 and in 4s for 12 volt XHP35, 50, 70. Lights currently in these formats are 2 cell or more. Zebralight is trying to build the first small single cell 18650 flashlight using a voltage booster. The smallest currently made light discounting custom makers here is the Nitecore EC4S.



He could be interested in it for the same reason I am, not the fact it uses and XHP50, but it uses a high CRI XHP50.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi, exactly right there!.
5000 hcri is very interesting.




staticx57 said:


> He could be interested in it for the same reason I am, not the fact it uses and XHP50, but it uses a high CRI XHP50.


----------



## KeepingItLight

I love everything I am reading about the *ZebraLight SC600Fd Mk. III Plus*. It promises to unite the high output of a Cree XHP50 emitter with neutral tint at 5000K CCT and high CRI around 93-95 (Ra). 

My understanding is that the small gaps between the four separate LEDs used by the XHP50 can cause a dim/dark cross shape in the center of the beam. This is more pronounced at short range. I presume that is the reason this flashlight will have a frosted lens. A frosted lens should blend the beam, and eliminate the dimmer parts.

As a side effect, the blending may also remove the yellow/green tint frequently seen in the corona of reflector-based flashlights that use Cree emitters. Similarly, the purple/blue tint often seen in the spill of such flashlights may also be improved or eliminated.

In a compact, "tube" light like this one, I prefer a floody beam. I like a wide hot spot for close work and indoor use. I also like a floody beam for many outdoor purposes. For those who want more throw, however, this flashlight may not be the best choice.




newbie66 said:


> Too floody for me. But we'll see. Still several months before they release it. I doubt they would be able to meet the May-June release date.



Has ZebraLight now pushed this forward to May? 

The only information regarding release date that I have seen heretofore is what ZebraLight sent to ateupwithgolf in mid-February. At that time, ZL was saying 4 to 5 months at the earliest, which would mean June or July. The same email from ZL emphasized that a later release was more probable than an early one.

Here is the post where ateupwithgolf talks about the release date:



ateupwithgolf said:


> So I sent Zebralight an email this afternoon asking about the release of their SC600fd MKIII plus that piqued my interest.
> 
> Here is their reply:
> 
> _Subject: SC600FdII PLUS
> 
> Looks like 4-5 months out at least, because we are still very busy trying to deal with orders for recently announced models, and there will be H603 series and H600(w) Mk III before the SC600Fd III Plus.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.
> 2908 Story Rd. W
> Irving, TX 75038_


----------



## Tachead

texas cop said:


> This LED has already been on the market for over a year in the Cree XHP35, 50 and 70 series. All 3 are a composite of 4 smaller very closely placed LED's done in 2s2p for 6 volt XHP50, 70 and in 4s for 12 volt XHP35, 50, 70. Lights currently in these formats are 2 cell or more. *Zebralight is trying to build the first small single cell 18650 flashlight using a voltage booster. The smallest currently made light discounting custom makers here is the Nitecore EC4S.*



Armytek debuted a single 18650 Wizard Pro with the XHP50 at SHOT earlier this year.


----------



## texas cop

Tachead said:


> Armytek debuted a single 18650 Wizard Pro with the XHP50 at SHOT earlier this year.



We've got Olight, Armytek,Fenix and Acebeam at the top of the list of those who have or have announced single cell boosted lights. I think Fenix was 1st with the PD40 in 26650 but in MT-G2, Acebeam 18650 but also in MT-G2. Cree's XHP are a bit more efficient. I've just been hoping for a few really bright 18650 or 26650 Pocket Rockets. Zebralight quality in these formats would be hard to beat.


----------



## Strintguy

I just listed my dream light in the Fenix giveaway, I chose not to come out and say this new ZL would be it


----------



## StorminMatt

texas cop said:


> I've just been hoping for a few really bright 18650 or 26650 Pocket Rockets. Zebralight quality in these formats would be hard to beat.



I would REALLY like to see a 26650 light similar to the PD40 from Zebralight. Although the PD40 is a decent light, it's not without its shortcomings. I'm SURE Zebralight could do a better job on a similar light (not to mention making it more compact). Given the significant capacity advantages of a 26650 over an 18650, I would LOVE to see such a light.


----------



## newbie66

KeepingItLight said:


> I love everything I am reading about the *ZebraLight SC600Fd Mk. III Plus*. It promises to unite the high output of a Cree XHP50 emitter with neutral tint at 5000K CCT and high CRI around 93-95 (Ra).
> 
> My understanding is that the small gaps between the four separate LEDs used by the XHP50 can cause a dim/dark cross shape in the center of the beam. This is more pronounced at short range. I presume that is the reason this flashlight will have a frosted lens. A frosted lens should blend the beam, and eliminate the dimmer parts.
> 
> As a side effect, the blending may also remove the yellow/green tint frequently seen in the corona of reflector-based flashlights that use Cree emitters. Similarly, the purple/blue tint often seen in the spill of such flashlights may also be improved or eliminated.
> 
> In a compact, "tube" light like this one, I prefer a floody beam. I like a wide hot spot for close work and indoor use. I also like a floody beam for many outdoor purposes. For those who want more throw, however, this flashlight may not be the best choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has ZebraLight now pushed this forward to May?
> 
> The only information regarding release date that I have seen heretofore is what ZebraLight sent to ateupwithgolf in mid-February. At that time, ZL was saying 4 to 5 months at the earliest, which would mean June or July. The same email from ZL emphasized that a later release was more probable than an early one.
> 
> Here is the post where ateupwithgolf talks about the release date:



Oops, my mistake. 

But I kinda doubt they would be able to meet those deadlines too. There will definitely be production issues again.


----------



## KeepingItLight

newbie66 said:


> I kinda doubt they would be able to meet those deadlines too.



Lol! Since I usually am not an earlier adopter, my wait will be even longer.


----------



## markr6

StorminMatt said:


> I would REALLY like to see a 26650 light similar to the PD40 from Zebralight. Although the PD40 is a decent light, it's not without its shortcomings. I'm SURE Zebralight could do a better job on a similar light (not to mention making it more compact). Given the significant capacity advantages of a 26650 over an 18650, I would LOVE to see such a light.



That would be great. I've asked them about this twice and they say "no plans for 26650", but I still hope they make one eventually.


----------



## vadimax

I am curious: frosted glass, how hot does it become at maximum LED emission?


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi would one of these LEDs work well in say a sinner 18650 host?.
would it work ok say at moonlight mode to say 200 max lumens?.
would there be current draw issue ?.
Someone mentioned to me these need 6/12v??.

i don't really want to switch to 2 18350 and runtime suffers maybe?.
if I can stick to 18650 that'll be good!.

thanks.


----------



## newbie66

KeepingItLight said:


> Lol! Since I usually am not an earlier adopter, my wait will be even longer.



Not a problem. It becomes a problem for those of us that need our ZL fix quickly.


----------



## recDNA

I wait for retailers to get it so if it comes out in August I'm hoping to get one at Christmas time


----------



## neutralwhite

Hello, - what nichia Cree led would be as near to this same one in tint and hcri?.
any links ?.
pure white with hcri.

thanks.


----------



## Tachead

Cree XHP50 or 70. Both are available and in stock for purchase in 90+ CRI. There is even a 96 CRI XHP70 readily available. Remember though that there are not a lot of drivers that support these emitters due to their higher voltages. Any light that already uses them would work for an emitter however. I have been thinking about doing one myself.


----------



## neutralwhite

thanks, whats the drivers available now ?.
cheers,




Tachead said:


> Cree XHP50 or 70. Both are available and in stock for purchase in 90+ CRI. There is even a 96 CRI XHP70 readily available. Remember though that there are not a lot of drivers that support these emitters due to their higher voltages. Any light that already uses them would work for an emitter however. I have been thinking about doing one myself.


----------



## Tachead

neutralwhite said:


> thanks, whats the drivers available now ?.
> cheers,



No idea about stand alone drivers as I am not into building lights from scratch(I would suspect that any 12V driver may work though). But, there are a number of existing lights that use the XHP50&70 that could be emitter swapped or the drivers could be harvested from. I have been thinking about doing an 90+ CRI emitter swap on a Nitecore EC4S personally. A 96 CRI Acebeam K60 would be cool too.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Decided to ask ZL when they are planning on listing lumen specs for this light as well as any estimate on lumens. I was inspired by the great response one of our CPF members got from ZL that was posted in the SC600 III HI BUY ME thread recently regarding sourcing of parts. Here's hoping.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Sorry guys. Just received my SUPER FAST response from ZL. Here is the official copy and paste. 

Later this year (late summer maybe)

Oh well......


----------



## newbie66

Thx. That was fast.


----------



## noboneshotdog

newbie66 said:


> Thx. That was fast.



They literally responded within a half hour.


----------



## markr6

Summer...anytime in the summer I can live with I guess. This is hard wait!


----------



## snowlover91

Hey at least they responded, and quickly at that! I imagine they still have a lot of things up in the air with testing of this light, sourcing components, etc that make it hard to give much of a specific timeframe. I expect it might be August before its released as they seem to still have high demand for their 63 and MK3 series lights. I've always found them to be helpful and prompt with responding to my inquiries, very few companies I've dealt with will actually talk about future products and components used like ZL does. The transparency and info provided is one reason I really like them. The anodizing is one of the best features too, much better quality and scratch resistant compared with other lights I've used. Looking forward to the XHP50 high CRI version this summer!


----------



## newbie66

noboneshotdog said:


> They literally responded within a half hour.



:thumbup:


----------



## newbie66

snowlover91 said:


> Hey at least they responded, and quickly at that! I imagine they still have a lot of things up in the air with testing of this light, sourcing components, etc that make it hard to give much of a specific timeframe. I expect it might be August before its released as they seem to still have high demand for their 63 and MK3 series lights. I've always found them to be helpful and prompt with responding to my inquiries, very few companies I've dealt with will actually talk about future products and components used like ZL does. The transparency and info provided is one reason I really like them. The anodizing is one of the best features too, much better quality and scratch resistant compared with other lights I've used. Looking forward to the XHP50 high CRI version this summer!



Don't forget very efficient drivers too! Probably the most efficient in the industry with all the impressive components.


----------



## kellyglanzer

SC600Fd III Plus991Cree XHP5093-955000FloodySC600w Mk III HI
951Cree XHP35 HI804500spill + spot

Interesting that the XHP50 is listed as floody and the XHP35 as spill and spot. Looking forward to my first Zebralight, the SC600w w/XHP35 and will absolutely be in line for the XHP50 on release as well.


----------



## scs

kellyglanzer said:


> SC600Fd III Plus991Cree XHP5093-955000FloodySC600w Mk III HI951Cree XHP35 HI804500spill + spot
> 
> Interesting that the XHP50 is listed as floody and the XHP35 as spill and spot. Looking forward to my first Zebralight, the SC600w w/XHP35 and will absolutely be in line for the XHP50 on release as well.



The Plus will have a frosted lens.


----------



## StorminMatt

kellyglanzer said:


> Interesting that the XHP50 is listed as floody and the XHP35 as spill and spot. Looking forward to my first Zebralight, the SC600w w/XHP35 and will absolutely be in line for the XHP50 on release as well.



So will I. I also hope they will release an XHP50 SC600Fc as well. THAT could very well be the ultimate hiking light!


----------



## markr6

Getting anxious...


----------



## Vothelo

I emailed ZL for an updated timetable on when the light would be available and they responded with late August. I'm bummed and excited...really want this light...but having to wait nearly four months is going to be painful.


----------



## markr6

Vothelo said:


> I emailed ZL for an updated timetable on when the light would be available and they responded with late August. I'm bummed and excited...really want this light...but having to wait nearly four months is going to be painful.



Ouch, that's a bit. Thanks for checking. So, November then?


----------



## tops2

markr6 said:


> Ouch, that's a bit. Thanks for checking. So, November then?





I'm impatiently waiting too. Trying sooooo hard not to buy anymore lights...


----------



## recDNA

Xmas present to myself


----------



## noboneshotdog

Just wish they would at least satisfy my lumen curiosity and post some numbers in that blank spot of the light chart. That would make a whole lot of people happy I would bet. 

Think they will match the new Armytek Wizard v3 output?


----------



## TA_ls1

August is a long wait, but it will be coming out as the seasons change and the nights get longer, which is good for flashlights! 

BTW where do I see this spreadsheet that has been referenced in this thread?


----------



## staticx57

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dit?hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC&pref=2&pli=1#gid=0


----------



## staticx57

noboneshotdog said:


> Just wish they would at least satisfy my lumen curiosity and post some numbers in that blank spot of the light chart. That would make a whole lot of people happy I would bet.
> 
> Think they will match the new Armytek Wizard v3 output?



I'd sure hope so considering this light will use the XHP50, not the smaller XP-L.


----------



## noboneshotdog

staticx57 said:


> I'd sure hope so considering this light will use the XHP50, not the smaller XP-L.



Armytek also has a 2300 lumen XHP50 Wizard III as well.


----------



## staticx57

They have a wizard pro it seems, but not a wizard. Even if they didn't match the raw lumens, this is going to be a high CRI light which is better.


----------



## Mr. Tone

Hopefully we do see this within next few months. Any more word or is "sometime this summer" still the latest?


----------



## snowlover91

Last I heard was August/September.


----------



## markr6

The "too good to be true" light. I sure hope it isn't


----------



## recDNA

August 2 is Note 7 release day so I won't be in on this one early. Still, I hope it comes out during summer so orders are not backed up beyond Thanksgiving.


----------



## wolfgaze

I can't decide whether I should pre-order this light once we're able to do so, or if I should wait for others to receive theirs and provide their reviews/feedback... I assume I could always return the light within the alotted time period if I didn't like it? I would also need to order unprotected cells from ZL (or elsewhere)... Does anyone have any guess as to whether ZL would also accept a return on the batteries if they were immediately returned with the light in which they were ordered?


----------



## neutralwhite

I'm wondering if the 5000k tint will be white or yellow !


----------



## recDNA

All of my other 5000k lights or drop ins look white to me but of course tint could be yellowish or greenish and still be 5000k. I've never really seen a 5000k light with a bad tint personally. Too cool for many but so am I. Perfecto imo


----------



## Mr. Tone

If it will really be the CRI we are hoping for then 5000K will probably seem white without much tint. Sunlight has a nice white appearance with a hint of vanilla


----------



## cmd

I'm fine with 5000K, would prefer a little warmer but no big deal. 

The frosted lens is what will probably prevent me getting it. Diffusers are great, but need to be removable, even if it is just the cap of a water bottle. A permanent diffuser would just bug me and I would worry about the durability of the lens as well.


----------



## tops2

I like and prefer 5000k since it just seems white to me. 4500k is about as warm as I'd prefer to go.
That said, I did end up picking a warm white headlamp yesterday...too yellow on low settings, but nice on high brightness.


----------



## recDNA

cmd said:


> I'm fine with 5000K, would prefer a little warmer but no big deal.
> 
> The frosted lens is what will probably prevent me getting it. Diffusers are great, but need to be removable, even if it is just the cap of a water bottle. A permanent diffuser would just bug me and I would worry about the durability of the lens as well.


I agree 100% on this. I'd prefer heavily op even if I get rings. Is the lens user serviceable? I wonder it I could get an sc600 lens and install it in the XHP 50 model? Frosted lenses cut way down on actual output and even more on apparent output.


----------



## roger-roger

roger-roger said:


> Couple weeks ago I had the hankering to try out the SC52 High CRI Daylight. Sent an email to Zebralight and alas, its officially discontinued. Otoh further experience with the H32F, leads me to guess I'd be totally happy with the throw from the upcoming SC600 PLUS.



Posted this in the Official Zebralight Thread. I'm pretty happy with the white tints on my SC5 OP and H32F, but would probably not be if they were any whiter, which seems a possibility due to manufacturing tolerances. 

Here's hoping the PLUS is not delayed.


----------



## neutralwhite

Anyone ?.



ateupwithgolf said:


> Someone school me on what this xhp50 high CRI light brings to the table vs. the nichia 219 series? Thanks.


----------



## twistedraven

Slightly higher CRI numbers (93-95 vs 89-92) and way higher output compared to the 219B. However, being a Cree led, it will still probably lack some deep red rendering vs the Nichia, even though it will probably have higher saturation in the rest of the spectrum.


----------



## Drift Monkey

Please put this in a headlamp ZL!


----------



## roger-roger

Take the "floody" out of the high CRI plus (SC600d MKIII plus).


----------



## Lumencrazy

roger-roger said:


> Take the "floody" out of the high CRI plus (SC600d MKIII plus).



No please Don’t!


----------



## snowlover91

roger-roger said:


> Take the "floody" out of the high CRI plus (SC600d MKIII plus).



They would have to choose a different emitter or use extremely heavy orange peel in the reflector since the XHP50 will normally show a donut hole beam pattern. I would much prefer the floody beam with high cri, it would make an excellent headlamp choice also if they could manage the heat generated!


----------



## staticx57

Yes, I much prefer the floody. There are way too many throw lights these days and not enough flood or lights with balanced beam profiles.


----------



## lizongyu

I prefer the high cri floody headlamp with a pocket clip.

They have no designed pocket clip for H603, and it really bugs me.


----------



## roger-roger

snowlover91 said:


> *They would have to choose a different emitter or use extremely heavy orange peel in the reflector since the XHP50 will normally show a donut hole beam pattern.* I would much prefer the floody beam with high cri, it would make an excellent headlamp choice also if they could manage the heat generated!




Are you saying the XHP50 isn't best optimized for Zebralight's standard-style beam, which while perhaps not floody, does lean a bit to the floody side? I'm fine with that as long as the XHP50 behind the frosted lens, continues to provide just *enough* throw.





staticx57 said:


> Yes, I much prefer the floody. There are way too many throw lights these days and not enough flood or lights with balanced beam profiles.



I wouldn't consider the beam on the base SC600 MK III anything close to a throw light. Imo Zebralight's use of a widish hot spot and smooth transition to flood, characterizes highly desirable traits in a general use light.


----------



## Drift Monkey

roger-roger said:


> Are you saying the XHP50 isn't best optimized for Zebralight's standard-style beam, which while perhaps not floody, does lean a bit to the floody side? I'm fine with that as long as the XHP50 behind the frosted lens, continues to provide just *enough* throw.



I think it's because the XHP50 creates a bit of a donut hole beam pattern with such a small reflector. The frosted lens is meant to counteract this.


----------



## snowlover91

roger-roger said:


> Are you saying the XHP50 isn't best optimized for Zebralight's standard-style beam, which while perhaps not floody, does lean a bit to the floody side? I'm fine with that as long as the XHP50 behind the frosted lens, continues to provide just *enough* throw.



The XHP50 will create more of a donut hole beam pattern unless used in a large reflector with heavy orange peel and/or a frosted lens. In such a compact light I'm not sure if the beam pattern would be very pleasing, it would definitely be different than that of a typical ZL due to the XHP50 size and typical beam pattern. That's probably why they decided to go with a frosted lens; to give a smooth wall of light with excellent cri.


----------



## twistedraven

Surely by now the hi cri variants of xhp35 have to be getting off the lines in good numbers.


----------



## Drift Monkey

twistedraven said:


> Surely by now the hi cri variants of xhp35 have to be getting off the lines in good numbers.



Doesn't seem like it. "Hard to source" is all I've read but who knows.


----------



## tops2

Maybe it's hard to source consistent tint for these leds? I thought there was an older comment mentioning Zebralight may be hand picking these led to use. I guess we'll see about the tint lottery after this comes out.


----------



## snowlover91

From what I remember ZL said that at the time (several months ago) they were hard to source and they also wanted to hand pick the LEDs which is a very intensive process. That's why a high cri SC63 hasn't come out yet and they said they were undecided about releasing one. I might email them this week to see if I can find out anything else.


----------



## tops2

Man.. I'm starting to get torn whether or not to get the Plus after getting a H600Fd...

I love most everything about the H600Fd.
The main thing I don't like that much about it is while hand holding it when taking walks, it's incredibly awkward for me to hold. I just can't find a comfortable position to hold. And it's so awkward to me to hold and activate the switch. I know if I strap to my head it'll probably fix this..but I rarely use the head strap. I the Plus should alleviate this problem.
The other thing is I found I love the flood when indoors or for closer distance to myself outside. But when when taking walks outside I think I prefer to have more throw, especially if I hear a noise.. I'm not sure if the Plus would be good for this preference..

I'm finally seriously considering the HI version again..but I think I'd probably just use it outside.. Its just the saving money part (that and my laptop over the weekend is starting to act up hardware-wise so may need to replace that instead cause that would be a higher priority).


----------



## roger-roger

tops2 said:


> Man.. I'm starting to get torn whether or not to get the Plus after getting a H600Fd...
> 
> I love most everything about the H600Fd.
> The main thing I don't like that much about it is while hand holding it when taking walks, it's incredibly awkward for me to hold. I just can't find a comfortable position to hold. And it's so awkward to me to hold and activate the switch. I know if I strap to my head it'll probably fix this..but I rarely use the head strap. I the Plus should alleviate this problem.
> The other thing is I found I love the flood when indoors or for closer distance to myself outside. But when when taking walks outside I think I prefer to have more throw, especially if I hear a noise.. I'm not sure if the Plus would be good for this preference..
> 
> I'm finally seriously considering the HI version again..but I think I'd probably just use it outside.. Its just the saving money part (that and my laptop over the weekend is starting to act up hardware-wise so may need to replace that instead cause that would be a higher priority).




Still in the early stages of evaluating the SC600w MKIII HI, and I'm tentative going to say there's some disappointment in its narrow beam at >30-35'. Not that this was completely unexpected coming from an SC600w MKIII with its wide hotspot and smooth transition to spill, and the fact the HI is labelled a "pocket thrower". Still this underlines for me how great the standard Zebralight beam configuration is for general use at moderate distances.


----------



## markr6

roger-roger said:


> Still this underlines for me how great the standard Zebralight beam configuration is for general use at moderate distances.



I agree the standard is a perfect beam for many. The HI is just another tool to keep in the box for more distance. I have a Eagletac T25C2 XP-L HI for a small thrower, but the SC600 HI takes its place 8/10 times. The HI is a perfect, small and light way to compliment my H600w while backpacking and kayaking.

As for the SC600Fd III Plus, I know I'll buy it even if I'm not really in the market for a floody light.


----------



## Drift Monkey

tops2 said:


> Man.. I'm starting to get torn whether or not to get the Plus after getting a H600Fd...
> 
> I love most everything about the H600Fd.
> The main thing I don't like that much about it is while hand holding it when taking walks, it's incredibly awkward for me to hold. I just can't find a comfortable position to hold. And it's so awkward to me to hold and activate the switch. I know if I strap to my head it'll probably fix this..but I rarely use the head strap. I the Plus should alleviate this problem.
> The other thing is I found I love the flood when indoors or for closer distance to myself outside. But when when taking walks outside I think I prefer to have more throw, especially if I hear a noise.. I'm not sure if the Plus would be good for this preference..
> 
> I'm finally seriously considering the HI version again..but I think I'd probably just use it outside.. Its just the saving money part (that and my laptop over the weekend is starting to act up hardware-wise so may need to replace that instead cause that would be a higher priority).



Seems to me you need a SC600 Mk III HI to pair with it. 

I'm waiting to see if ZL will put the XHP50 into a headlamp still so I can pair it with my HI, but so far the HI has been the best all-rounder I have. If one never comes to fruition, I won't be too upset with a H600Fw XHP35/H600Fd...but the extra CRI out of the alleged XHP50 model would be nice.


----------



## tops2

roger-roger said:


> Still in the early stages of evaluating the SC600w MKIII HI, and I'm tentative going to say there's some disappointment in its narrow beam at >30-35'. Not that this was completely unexpected coming from an SC600w MKIII with its wide hotspot and smooth transition to spill, and the fact the HI is labelled a "pocket thrower". Still this underlines for me how great the standard Zebralight beam configuration is for general use at moderate distances.





markr6 said:


> I agree the standard is a perfect beam for many. The HI is just another tool to keep in the box for more distance. I have a Eagletac T25C2 XP-L HI for a small thrower, but the SC600 HI takes its place 8/10 times. The HI is a perfect, small and light way to compliment my H600w while backpacking and kayaking.
> 
> As for the SC600Fd III Plus, I know I'll buy it even if I'm not really in the market for a floody light.




Thanks for the feedback! I think for now I'll just use my only "thrower" (Thrunite TN12 2014) for a few nights and see if that'll reduce my temptation right now.

I'm walking around at night catching Pokemon now (using my Zebralight H600Fd) and I'm starting to use lower lumen levels (<10 lumens) as not to disturb others. But closer to home when I'm the only one around in sections with almost no light, once in a while I'll hear something rustling and want to blast light in that direction. I'm really noticing the lack of throw on the "F" version. Otherwise the flood is nice to let me see if I'm going to step on any bugs or anything in front of me. Or maybe I should try the H600Fd on the actual headstrap and see. I really need more hands to hold the phone, catch pokemon, hold the headlamp, and hold a thrower..


----------



## Sphinxxx

^^^^^^
If i hear the word POKEMON one more time today i'm gonna lose it. 
E tu, CPF?


----------



## Ladd

pokemon :devil:


----------



## neutralwhite

Zebralight Go!.


----------



## Connor

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dit?hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC&pref=2&pli=1#gid=0

now lists "8/2016" as release date. That's new, isn't it?


----------



## oKtosiTe

Also, 16 modes as opposed to the 15 on the rest of the family? What could that be?


----------



## twistedraven

Connor said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dit?hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC&pref=2&pli=1#gid=0
> 
> now lists "8/2016" as release date. That's new, isn't it?




Yes! :twothumbs


----------



## Connor

oKtosiTe said:


> Also, 16 modes as opposed to the 15 on the rest of the family? What could that be?



That's for the 1 minute/2500 lumen turbo mode, of course! :rock: 
Not sure if this will be possible in the ZL form factor, though.


----------



## tops2

Connor said:


> That's for the 1 minute/2500 lumen turbo mode, of course! :rock:
> Not sure if this will be possible in the ZL form factor, though.



If the SC63 can do 1300 lumens (for super short time) with about half the mass of the SC600 MKIII..then bring on the 2500 lumen turbo to the Plus! :naughty:


----------



## wolfgaze

August was their initial forecast for this light so it appears they are on schedule... 

I definitely plan on waiting for the user reviews & feedback to surface before I decide to spring for this light...


----------



## Drift Monkey

Now they need to go ahead and put this bad boy in a headlamp.


----------



## lizongyu

Drift Monkey said:


> Now they need to go ahead and put this bad boy in a headlamp.



+1


----------



## Mr. Tone

I don't think I will wait for a review on this one, I want it now, lol. 🍿


----------



## staticx57

Mr. Tone said:


> I don't think I will wait for a review on this one, I want it now, lol. 🍿



You're not kidding. I remember first seeing this thread and planning on buying it sight unseen. And here we still are waiting lol


----------



## TCY

Waiting for a bit would be a wise strategy. ZL is known for its "first batch inconsistency".

That being said, I want one now too!


----------



## CelticCross74

I just am not sure mankind is ready for a light like the XHP50 plus....


----------



## kellyglanzer

I'm ready for it now. No waiting from this camp. I'm happy to be the early adopter. Bring it on!!


----------



## noboneshotdog

kellyglanzer said:


> I'm ready for it now. No waiting from this camp. I'm happy to be the early adopter. Bring it on!!




Yup, I passed on the other renditions of the MKIII awaiting this one. BRING IT ON! :twothumbs


----------



## roger-roger

Connor said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dit?hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC&pref=2&pli=1#gid=0
> 
> now lists "8/2016" as release date. That's new, isn't it?





If that date is for the LED itself, I'd not be surprised if the Zebralight PLUS might be delayed a bit from an actual Aug release.


----------



## tops2

roger-roger said:


> If that date is for the LED itself, I'd not be surprised if the Zebralight PLUS might be delayed a bit from an actual Aug release.



Could come out 8/31 and be "on time". Lol


----------



## noboneshotdog

tops2 said:


> Could come out 8/31 and be "on time". Lol




Probably start pre-buy in August and start receiving them by Christmas! HAHAHA


----------



## roger-roger

tops2 said:


> Could come out 8/31 and be "on time". Lol




That would be great. I was mainly reflecting on some of the question marks raised in this thread, such as the quality levels of the LED right off the production line, and whether or not Zebralight will continue to cherry pick if needed.


----------



## Drift Monkey

noboneshotdog said:


> Yup, I passed on the other renditions of the MKIII awaiting this one. BRING IT ON! :twothumbs


You're missing out.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Drift Monkey said:


> You're missing out.



Maybe. I like flooders for work and this will replace my MKII. Got the TX25C2VN for throw. I think I'm ok. :twothumbs


----------



## Strintguy

If this light is as good as we hope, is there any reason to suspect they wouldn't put it in a headlamp?


----------



## Drift Monkey

Strintguy said:


> If this light is as good as we hope, is there any reason to suspect they wouldn't put it in a headlamp?


That's the question. I guess they may have to test it to make sure the headlamp size/shape will dissipate heat adequately, but other than that I don't see any issues.


----------



## tops2

Strintguy said:


> If this light is as good as we hope, is there any reason to suspect they wouldn't put it in a headlamp?



Maybe they'll see the demand for the H600Fd/c? If it's as good as I'm imagining, to me it seems like it'll replace the H600Fd.


----------



## Connor

New data in the official ZL doc: 


SC600Fd III Plus991Cree XHP5093-955000Floody16*1600*PID*0.08*1.23.82.358/ 2016

1600/0.08 max/min lumen is a bit less than I expected :mecry:


----------



## twistedraven

Especially because it's a floody beam pattern, so it won't appear as bright as one would expect.

1600 lumens driven off of 1 18650 is a good compromise between output and runtime I feel. Anything higher and it just starts becoming very impractical. 

Still would like 1600 lumens in a spot+spill pattern. There has to be some kind of lens design of reflector design that mitigates the donut hole the xhp50 would have.


----------



## tops2

The max output is about what I expect. I have the Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XHP50 and the quoted (OTF?) lumens is 2150/2300 (warm/cool white). If I had to guess/estimate, maybe its really max of 1500-1700 lumens?

I wonder how hot the Plus will get? The Wizard Pro v3 is spec'ed as 59 grams. The SC600 MKIII HI is spec'ed as 64 grams. The Wizard Pro at max gets hot real fast. I like the PID on the Zebralight so I wonder how long the Plus can maintain the 1600 before stepping down. And I wonder what level it'll stabilize at (dependent on temperature and environment).

I wonder too if the beam will be like say the H600Fd but brighter? Or will they modify the frosted lens to it can be closer to the Wizard Pro. I love my H600Fd, but when I do comparison shots, sometimes I see a little green tint at lower brightness levels.

Either way, exciting!


----------



## markr6

Moving along! I hope this means the August timeframe will hold true. Can't wait!!


----------



## noboneshotdog

I have yet to buy a ZL with a frosted lens. Is frosted lens the general consensus around here that ZL will use? Are ZL frosted lenses pretty decent lenses? Seems like most companies are using TIR optics these days to diffuse the beam.


----------



## twistedraven

What qualities would make a lens decent or not decent?


----------



## noboneshotdog

twistedraven said:


> What qualities would make a lens decent or not decent?



Not cheap plastic. Allows good light transmission through it...


----------



## scs

twistedraven said:


> What qualities would make a lens decent or not decent?



Tough, thick, reasonably scratch and chip resistant, max light transmission, diffused or not.


----------



## twistedraven

I'm not sure how thick it is, but I've never had a Zebralight lens break, chip or scratch on me. Diffused lenses by nature won't have the light transmission as the clear ones.


----------



## GaryRanson

I believe I read that Zebralight uses Corning Gorilla Glass for their lenses.


----------



## eraursls1984

GaryRanson said:


> I believe I read that Zebralight uses Corning Gorilla Glass for their lenses.


I think they switched to Gorilla Glass because the old frosted lens had an issue with cracking. The new lens, apparently, throws a bit more and is less floody.


----------



## wolfgaze

GaryRanson said:


> I believe I read that Zebralight uses Corning Gorilla Glass for their lenses.



That would be good, if true....


----------



## TCY

I expect a quick PID step down to get good runtime. How does Armytek's 2300lm headlamp do it though, step down right away at the 30 second mark?


----------



## TCY

wolfgaze said:


> That would be good, if true....



One of the CPFers asked about this and ZL's response back then was that 80% of the lens they use are Corning Gorilla. Dunno if the number has increased to 100% now but I doubt ZL would use some random glass lens on their flagship XHP50 light.


----------



## staticx57

twistedraven said:


> Especially because it's a floody beam pattern, so it won't appear as bright as one would expect.
> 
> 1600 lumens driven off of 1 18650 is a good compromise between output and runtime I feel. Anything higher and it just starts becoming very impractical.
> 
> Still would like 1600 lumens in a spot+spill pattern. There has to be some kind of lens design of reflector design that mitigates the donut hole the xhp50 would have.



I am actually happy it is floody. I don't equate brightness to throw but rather having a wide beam that is bright throughout unlike most throw lights. So this light is right up my alley.


----------



## GaryRanson

wolfgaze said:


> That would be good, if true....



Directly from Zebralight that they were starting to use the GG on the SC600. At least that is what was posted here.


----------



## AussieRanga

TCY said:


> I expect a quick PID step down to get good runtime. How does Armytek's 2300lm headlamp do it though, step down right away at the 30 second mark?



The short answer: Because the Wizard doesn't actually put out 2300 lumens..

The long answer: Armytek use theorhetical LED lumens which I assume has been calculated using a relatively low to non-existant efficiency loss to further inflate the output and attract customers chasing _the brightest light._

The proof is in the pudding; consider how many users report seriously high temperatures with their Wizards - Zebralight have obviously chosen a sensible (and not too far off the 2300 LED lumens as the 1600L is OTF lumens) output that can most likely sustain a decent chunk of that output after a few mins of PID stepdowns.

There's no point going for 2300L or anything stupidly high in such a small form factor unless you're purely after bragging rights. Besides that, I'll take much less heat for longer runtimes any day..


----------



## TCY

AussieRanga said:


> The short answer: Because the Wizard doesn't actually put out 2300 lumens..
> 
> The long answer: Armytek use theorhetical LED lumens which I assume has been calculated using a relatively low to non-existant efficiency loss to further inflate the output and attract customers chasing _the brightest light._
> 
> The proof is in the pudding; consider how many users report seriously high temperatures with their Wizards - Zebralight have obviously chosen a sensible (and not too far off the 2300 LED lumens as the 1600L is OTF lumens) output that can most likely sustain a decent chunk of that output after a few mins of PID stepdowns.
> 
> There's no point going for 2300L or anything stupidly high in such a small form factor unless you're purely after bragging rights. Besides that, I'll take much less heat for longer runtimes any day..



Oh right I forgot about AT's OTF lumen thing. Thanks for reminding me. 

I agree with you though, have a 2000+ lumen burst mode in a single 18650 light isn't very practical. Nitecore does that with their XHP70 light but runtime is just pathetic across the board.


----------



## scs

twistedraven said:


> I'm not sure how thick it is, but I've never had a Zebralight lens break, chip or scratch on me. Diffused lenses by nature won't have the light transmission as the clear ones.



That much is obvious. I was talking about maximizing transmission for what it is, a frosty lens.


----------



## scs

TCY said:


> Oh right I forgot about AT's OTF lumen thing. Thanks for reminding me.
> 
> I agree with you though, have a 2000+ lumen burst mode in a single 18650 light isn't very practical. Nitecore does that with their XHP70 light but runtime is just pathetic across the board.



Nevermind 2000+ lumens, most if not all current 1x18650 lights can't even do 800+ OTF lumens for long for one reason or another.


----------



## WigglyTheGreat

I'll be keeping my eye out for this light too. It sounds like a good one. As far as the Armytek claims they are LED theoretical lumens, just watch the beginning of this youtube video and the Armytek spokesman states the actual output of the new Wizard is about 1,600 lumens.https://youtu.be/4mlQZe1J7gg


----------



## TCY

scs said:


> Nevermind 2000+ lumens, most if not all current 1x18650 lights can't even do 800+ OTF lumens for long for one reason or another.



It's nice to have a turbo mode there, even if you don't use it. Occasionally I would find the need of 930 lm light from my SC62W, 300+ lumens is simply not punchy enough.


----------



## TCY

WigglyTheGreat said:


> I'll be keeping my eye out for this light too. It sounds like a good one. As far as the Armytek claims they are LED theoretical lumens, just watch the beginning of this youtube video and the Armytek spokesman states the actual output of the new Wizard is about 1,600 lumens.https://youtu.be/4mlQZe1J7gg



Hey thanks for the YT link. I actually watched this when it came out but some how missed/forgot the 1600 lumens claim. It gives me faith knowing that ZL's driver tech is still top notch and AT is not blowing it out of the water lol


----------



## roger-roger

staticx57 said:


> I am actually happy it is floody. I don't equate brightness to throw but rather having a wide beam that is bright throughout unlike most throw lights. So this light is right up my alley.




I consider the standard SC600 MKIII design to already have a "floody" beam, with a concomitant effect on its throw capabilities. The frosted lens should increase the overall effect.


----------



## Mr. Tone

The specs for this light look great to me. 1600 lumens is a lot of light, especially when we are talking hi CRI and neutral white. Plus, this is a small body with just one 18650. 0.08 lumens for a moonlight is great, too. I'm even more excited about this light now.


----------



## markr6

Come on I can't wait any longer!! I'm planning on October before it's in my hands...best case scenario.


----------



## roger-roger

markr6 said:


> Come on I can't wait any longer!! I'm planning on October before it's in my hands...best case scenario.





That sounds realistic and I'm betting my wallet on it, since I've just ordered an SC63w. 1600 lm sounds pretty sweet, and will help with the throw on the frosted lens.


----------



## TCY

A little update here guys. I simply can't wait for this long without any info to chew on so I chased ZL guys for some intel on the incoming new flagship. Here's what I've found:

For the LED part, ZL has a "chromaticity measuring system" added in the production line to make sure that tint variation lies in a very small range, definitely smaller than the SC62W which we have all played the tint lottery with. I got this response as I specifically asked about variation comparison with SC62W, but I believe that the tint variation would be smaller than all of their XML-2 based lights.

I was also told that "the main variation with the SC62w is the color temperature, while the variation with the SC63w is slightly different." Any clues? 

Also, ZL will be manufacturing lights in North Texas in a few months time, and North Texas will be where their main production capacity is located. Better quality lights for us! (the incoming flagship will still be made in China though)


----------



## twistedraven

They're perhaps saying with the older SC62w model, the XML2s varied a lot in CCT, while the newer SC63w models with XHP-35s vary moreso in tint variation (green-magenta shifts) than actual CCT shift.

That's my guess, but perhaps I'm wrong.


It's nice to see Zebralight hand-picking the LEDs so they're as close to the black body locus as possible. They do the same with the Easywhite H600FD as well (and so does Cree initially.) So you could say that LED is hand-picked out of hand-picked LEDs.


----------



## markr6

Great! Thanks for the info. Just this morning I thought about asking them, but I think I already bothered them enough in the past.


----------



## markr6

Update:

*3072 internal brightness levels (up from 384 of our ealier 18650 lights)*

(not my typo )


----------



## Lex Icon

markr6 said:


> Update:
> 
> *3072 internal brightness levels (up from 384 of our ealier 18650 lights)*
> 
> (not my typo )


And to think I was sure of having counted only 383 last time.


----------



## markr6

Lex Icon said:


> And to think I was sure of having counted only 383 last time.



:laughing:

I'd be happy with no "improvements" actually. Don't want any reasons for the light to be more complicated and possibly fail. Keep it simple. Just basically give me an SC600 III with an awesome tint and flood!


----------



## TCY

Let's assume that PID still only uses 384 levels.. does that mean the 16th mode is there so we can manually set our own brightness like we do on M43?


----------



## eraursls1984

How great would it be if we could turn on infinite mode. Same UI as now except double click long press for ramping within that sub set. Then maybe either mode could be reprogrammed to any mode.


----------



## noboneshotdog

I have a feeling this "PLUS" model is going to be something special unlike anything ZL has put out before. Yes, it may have the same form factor but with the 3072 brightness levels and the 16 modes is definitely setting this light apart!


----------



## Sulik

16 modes instead of 15? Seem that MS Excel gone wrong :laughing:


----------



## noboneshotdog

Sulik said:


> 16 modes instead of 15? Seem that MS Excel gone wrong :laughing:



I think you are looking at the wrong light. SC6000FD III PLUS. At the very top of the spreadsheet. I think you highlighted some of thier headlamps instead.


----------



## AussieRanga

I think they were just illustrating that there are obvious issues with the formatting of the sheet. Whether the 16 modes is an issues with the sheet or not remains to be seen.

I could only guess, if the extra mode was in fact legit, it would be added to the main modes, not beacons/strobes. With that line of thinking, perhaps they bumped up H2 and added a M2 mode while making M1 a little brighter also..

H1 
-1600L

H2
-1000L
-650L
-300L

M1
-150L

M2
-70L
-30L
-10L

..or something like that..


----------



## markr6

Copied the formula by dragging the formatting instead of right-click dragging and selecting "copy" 

Do that on a large mailing with zipcodes one time and I assure you it will be your first and last time!


----------



## noboneshotdog

AussieRanga said:


> I think they were just illustrating that there are obvious issues with the formatting of the sheet. Whether the 16 modes is an issues with the sheet or not remains to be seen.
> 
> I could only guess, if the extra mode was in fact legit, it would be added to the main modes, not beacons/strobes. With that line of thinking, perhaps they bumped up H2 and added a M2 mode while making M1 a little brighter also..
> 
> H1
> -1600L
> 
> H2
> -1000L
> -650L
> -300L
> 
> M1
> -150L
> 
> M2
> -70L
> -30L
> -10L
> 
> ..or something like that..



Gotcha, thanks for the explanation.


----------



## roger-roger

H2 at 1000 lu? I'm liking those numbers! Perhaps this floody beam might not be as limiting as expected.


----------



## TCY

16 modes confirmed. LED typos are corrected, the number 16 remains.

Zebralight is watching us...... give us more info!:nana:


----------



## Offgridled

TCY said:


> 16 modes confirmed. LED typos are corrected, the number 16 remains.
> 
> Zebralight is watching us...... give us more info!:nana:



You can't hide from a zeebra


----------



## carl

Going from 1300 cool and low-cri lumens to 1600 neutral and hi-cri lumens - well, I was hoping for a bigger jump in lumens. 

1) Maybe they can increase the drive current and bump up the lumens some more. 
2) And maybe a slightly larger head to add a bit more throw so its not just total flood. 
3) I would also like a recharger port.


----------



## TCY

carl said:


> Going from 1300 cool and low-cri lumens to 1600 neutral and hi-cri lumens - well, I was hoping for a bigger jump in lumens.
> 
> 1) Maybe they can increase the drive current and bump up the lumens some more.
> 2) And maybe a slightly larger head to add a bit more throw so its not just total flood.
> 3) I would also like a recharger port.



1. Let's say that ZL bumps it up to 2k max lumens. With just 2.35 oz of mass the light might heat up so fast that PID kicks in in just 5 seconds lowering the outputs to 1000+. The boost to 2000 becomes pointless. Even the 1600 now would probably become ~1200 after 30 seconds.
2 & 3. ZL is using SC600 Mk III's body to house this light so no space for a USB recharge port. This light will be using a frosted lens so no matter how focused the beam is it ends up getting diffused.


----------



## tops2

One wish I always had was for M1 level be the lowest H2 level, and have their current M1 level be part of the M2 level. Or just boost all the M levels across the board.


----------



## twistedraven

carl said:


> Going from 1300 cool and low-cri lumens to 1600 neutral and hi-cri lumens - well, I was hoping for a bigger jump in lumens.
> 
> 1) Maybe they can increase the drive current and bump up the lumens some more.
> 2) And maybe a slightly larger head to add a bit more throw so its not just total flood.
> 3) I would also like a recharger port.



At 1600 lumens with HI CRI I think Zebralight is already pushing the limits of what can be outputted by the SC600 host and 1 18650 battery. Anything higher would be too hot and too inefficient.


----------



## noboneshotdog

The great thing about ZL is that thier lumen rating are OTF lumens. That's pretty significant especially coming out of a diffused lens. Go ZEBRALIGHT!


----------



## Strintguy

I hope they're making a lot of them in the first run...


----------



## Lex Icon

Strintguy said:


> I hope they're making a lot of them in the first run...



Along with the 'upcoming' Manker M34 BlackShadow Meteor, these two could become the 'all time' most thoroughly scrutinized and critically evaluated initial product offerings in the history of flashlights. The next couple of months could be very interesting.


----------



## eraursls1984

tops2 said:


> One wish I always had was for M1 level be the lowest H2 level, and have their current M1 level be part of the M2 level. Or just boost all the M levels across the board.


I agree. My biggest issue is the lowest M2 is too close to L1, and the highest M2 is too close to M1. The lowest H2 as M1 and the highest M2 would be perfect.


----------



## Strintguy

eraursls1984 said:


> I agree. My biggest issue is the lowest M2 is too close to L1, and the highest M2 is too close to M1. The lowest H2 as M1 and the highest M2 would be perfect.



Totally agree. Zebra Light, are you listening?


----------



## Connor

Totally disagree (sorry). 
The ZebraLight levels are *very *nicely spaced out and are respecting the (non-linear) way we humans perceive brightness. Don't change a thing.


----------



## oKtosiTe

Connor said:


> Totally disagree (sorry).
> The ZebraLight levels are *very *nicely spaced out and are respecting the (non-linear) way we humans perceive brightness. Don't change a thing.


I feel the same way. Still, the addition of a variable mode would be neat.


----------



## Connor

oKtosiTe said:


> I feel the same way. Still, the addition of a variable mode would be neat.



Hmmm.

-10 clicks from off to enter/leave variable brightness mode
-single click: last variable brightness mode used/switch off
-press and hold (from on and off) to ramp through brightness from lowest to highest, let go to select

That would work.


----------



## eraursls1984

Connor said:


> -10 clicks from off to enter/leave variable brightness mode
> -single click: last variable brightness mode used/switch off
> -press and hold (from on and off) to ramp through brightness from lowest to highest, let go to select


That would work from programming. 

I think ramping while in a mode group should ramp up from the current output (maybe reverse from low?) and cycle from the lowest output Zebralight has set for that mode group to one output level lower than the next mode group. I.E. Low could ramp from .01-11 lumens or so, then medium would ramp from 11-149 lumens, and high would ramp from 150-max, these numbers are based on the SC62W.

Ramping could also work in regular use, not just programming. Double click and hold to ramp within a mode group.


----------



## tops2

eraursls1984 said:


> I think ramping while in a mode group should ramp up from the current output (maybe reverse from low?) and cycle from the lowest output Zebralight has set for that mode group to one output level lower than the next mode group. I.E. Low could ramp from .01-11 lumens or so, then medium would ramp from 11-149 lumens, and high would ramp from 150-max, these numbers are based on the SC62W.



While I still like Zebralight's UI better, my Armytek Wizard Pro v3's UI is pretty nice in some ways. On my Wizard Pro, when you press and hold while the light is on in any group, it'll cycle through the other sublevels in the group. Maybe another alternative is for Zebralight to allow double (or triple) click and hold to cycle through each sublevel in the group and which ever one you let go, it'll be the new sublevel.

But anyways...I'll just leave it at that as I don't want to start a UI debate!


----------



## eraursls1984

tops2 said:


> While I still like Zebralight's UI better, my Armytek Wizard Pro v3's UI is pretty nice in some ways. On my Wizard Pro, when you press and hold while the light is on in any group, it'll cycle through the other sublevels in the group. Maybe another alternative is for Zebralight to allow double (or triple) click and hold to cycle through each sublevel in the group and which ever one you let go, it'll be the new sublevel.
> 
> But anyways...I'll just leave it at that as I don't want to start a UI debate!


I think Amrytek's UI sounds great, but after having a bad experience with them I doubt I'll own another.


----------



## shrike2222

Following zebralight's google document, SC600Fd MK3's length is same with SC600 MK3, 3.8inch.

It means SC600FD MK3 only accept unprotected cell? I think length issue have to be solved. 
I have SC600 MK3. It even can not my unprotected cell that is soldering positive tip of battery for using with series. It just only 2~3mm.

I can not sure what SC600Fd will be pre-ordered. But if length is same with SC600 MK3, that is very weakness of this very cool light.


----------



## Connor

shrike2222 said:


> Following zebralight's google document, SC600Fd MK3's length is same with SC600 MK3, 3.8inch.
> 
> It means SC600FD MK3 only accept unprotected cell? I think length issue have to be solved.



There is no length issue. The newer ZLs only accept unprotected flattop 18650s (i.e. 65.0-65.2 mm long) which is the industry standard for 18650 cells. Protection circuitry is integrated in your ZebraLight. 
Just buy a couple of the new 3500 mAh Sanyo/LG/Samsung cells. 

This is the price you pay for having a super-compact high-powered light.


----------



## markr6

Connor said:


> There is no length issue. The newer ZLs only accept unprotected flattop 18650s (i.e. 65.0-65.2 mm long) which is the industry standard for 18650 cells. Protection circuitry is integrated in your ZebraLight.
> Just buy a couple of the new 3500 mAh Sanyo/LG/Sony cells.
> 
> This is the price you pay for having a super-compact high-powered light.



Yes. And a very modest price IMO.


----------



## TCY

Every time this thread gets bumped up I thought it's more update from ZL.

Oh how I wish that's true.


----------



## roger-roger

How will we get updates on this lights availability?


----------



## Connor

roger-roger said:


> How will we get updates on this lights availability?



ZL website or right here?


----------



## TCY

Some of us would post whatever ZL has updated right here. If ZL finally finishes polishing the light and they are ready for pre-order they will come up with a webpage. Their Google spreadsheet says release date would be 8/2016 so maybe we have a bit less than 2 weeks for the light's full spec released to the public and we get to pre-order.

I've been refreshing the ZL website for over 20 times a day trying to search for updates for the past week. Can't wait.


----------



## roger-roger

TCY said:


> ...I've been refreshing the ZL website for over 20 times a day trying to search for updates for the past week. Can't wait.



That would work. :O)


----------



## shrike2222

Of course I knew that.
But in my opinion accepting SC600Fd more room for battery, that is better for many users like have protected battery.

Anyway I will check, how Zebralight finally makes SC600Fd and pre-order.


Connor said:


> There is no length issue. The newer ZLs only accept unprotected flattop 18650s (i.e. 65.0-65.2 mm long) which is the industry standard for 18650 cells. Protection circuitry is integrated in your ZebraLight.
> Just buy a couple of the new 3500 mAh Sanyo/LG/Samsung cells.
> 
> This is the price you pay for having a super-compact high-powered light.


----------



## sidecross

Connor said:


> There is no length issue. The newer ZLs only accept unprotected flattop 18650s (i.e. 65.0-65.2 mm long) which is the industry standard for 18650 cells. Protection circuitry is integrated in your ZebraLight.
> Just buy a couple of the new 3500 mAh Sanyo/LG/Samsung cells.
> 
> This is the price you pay for having a super-compact high-powered light.


+1

I am now using unprotected batteries in most all of my lights.

I find it odd that people who would spend the time to search out this web site would not also spend some time to learn about what is lithium ion battery safety. It is not 'rocket science'. 

A better understanding of what a 'protected battery' is would solve many perceived problems, and it would be a detriment to the big money battery suppliers make by installing an extremely inexpensive circuit that you 'trust' will work.


----------



## roger-roger

Basically it *seems* the evolution of the protected battery, came about to address inadequate product implementation.


----------



## markr6

roger-roger said:


> Basically it *seems* the evolution of the protected battery, came about to address inadequate product implementation.



That, and everyone that watched a youtube video of guy hooking an 18650 up to a car battery suddenly thinks a protected battery is the greatest thing ever invented. It's certainly not an excuse to forget about proper care or blindly feel safer.


----------



## KeepingItLight

The large Li-ion battery makers do not manufacture protected batteries. They make only unprotected batteries that are sold to OEMs. An OEM that uses one of these batteries is expected to design an appropriate battery management system (including protection) for their product. 

That is what laptop, tablet, cell phone, power tool, and automobile OEMs do.

It is also exactly what ZebraLight does! The protection circuits built into all recent ZebraLight Li-ion flashlights and headlamps are _better _than the cheap protection circuits you get with a protected battery.

I have no qualms about using an unprotected battery in the *ZebraLight SC600Fd Mk. III Plus*.


----------



## sidecross

roger-roger said:


> Basically it *seems* the evolution of the protected battery, came about to address inadequate product implementation.


Or it could be argued that the best and safest user interface is between your own ears.


----------



## Cobraman502

Just got a reply from Zebralight that is rather interesting. I hope they do look into the beacon button. 

Thanks for your comments and suggestion. You may notice that we haven't done any UI update in the last 4 years ever since the PID thermal regulation was introduced. That's because we ran out of firmware memory space (can't add anything) in that tiny microcontroller chip. The SC600Fd III Plus is based a new platform that doubles the firmware memory space, has more internal brightness levels (the PID still use 384 levels, but the main H1, ... L2 levels are picked from 768 internal levels), and comes with some other improvements. Starting with the SC600Fd III Plus, we'll realign all main brightness levels. We'll look into the 'OFF state beacon indicator'. Thanks. 

Sincerely,

ZebraLight, Inc.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Cobraman502 said:


> Just got a reply from Zebralight that is rather interesting. I hope they do look into the beacon button.
> 
> Thanks for your comments and suggestion. You may notice that we haven't done any UI update in the last 4 years ever since the PID thermal regulation was introduced. That's because we ran out of firmware memory space (can't add anything) in that tiny microcontroller chip. The SC600Fd III Plus is based a new platform that doubles the firmware memory space, has more internal brightness levels (the PID still use 384 levels, but the main H1, ... L2 levels are picked from 768 internal levels), and comes with some other improvements. Starting with the SC600Fd III Plus, we'll realign all main brightness levels. We'll look into the 'OFF state beacon indicator'. Thanks.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.



Ummmmmm. DANG! This is gonna be GOOD!


----------



## Cobraman502

Yeah I can't wait. I hope they really do the lights switch like Manker did but just implemented a little better. Needs to be able to be turned on and off from the UI

Edit- 

And it should allow you to control how bright it is so you can find it at night.


----------



## TCY

I decided to bug them one more time before we get to pre order the light so more info for us.

Other than what Cobraman502 has posted, ZL will have the pre order webpage ready before the end of August so we have a bit less than two weeks before we line up and hand our money to them.

And no, the 16th mode is an extra M2 level instead of the infinite brightness mode some of us have imagined, and they will not do this in the future.

They put the 3072 internal brightness levels there for a new current regulation circuitry. The original quote is "...new current regulation circuitry for the future" so I'm not sure if this is used on SC600Fd III Plus but I would assume yes. PID still uses 384 levels. I can't believe they can improve their near perfection circuitry. Great job.

"We do read CPF occasionally, but most of the time we are simply too busy." Hi ZL:nana:


----------



## TCY

Cobraman502 said:


> Just got a reply from Zebralight that is rather interesting. I hope they do look into the beacon button.
> 
> Thanks for your comments and suggestion. You may notice that we haven't done any UI update in the last 4 years ever since the PID thermal regulation was introduced. That's because we ran out of firmware memory space (can't add anything) in that tiny microcontroller chip. The SC600Fd III Plus is based a new platform that doubles the firmware memory space, has more internal brightness levels (the PID still use 384 levels, but the main H1, ... L2 levels are picked from 768 internal levels), and comes with some other improvements. Starting with the SC600Fd III Plus, we'll realign all main brightness levels. We'll look into the 'OFF state beacon indicator'. Thanks.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.



I wonder what "other improvements" are :laughing:


----------



## AussieRanga

Anyone else see that there are now 3072 available output levels and 384 PID levels? OK, I know you all did but did you realize that number of PID levels is exactly 8 times less than the total available levels??

Maybe nothing but I like numbers :shrugs:


On another note, I think they may have finally made some people happy... I speculate that M1 will increase and the current norm for M1 will be added to the M2 choices from now on. If that is the case, expect the lowest H2 level to increase to combat the floody nature of the beam


----------



## snowlover91

The more I hear about this light the harder it gets to wait. It sounds like they're overhauling the brightness levels and adding a lot of other improvements also. I know the day it pops up I'll be preordering, I just can't resist a 1600 lumen 93-95cri ZL with their excellent UI and what sounds like more balanced medium levels also.


----------



## shrike2222

Also there is another reason I think SC600Fd will be adopted more battery room. That is CR123 batteries.
SC600 MK3 can hold two CR123 batteries by input voltage, but mechanically two CR123 batteries' length is slight longer than battery tube, therefore tail cap is not tighten.

I knew, sinlge 18650 is much better than CR123 battery for discharge current, capacity, rechargeable and so on. But if new zebralight can accept two CR123s, that is better than now. 



shrike2222 said:


> Of course I knew that.
> But in my opinion accepting SC600Fd more room for battery, that is better for many users like have protected battery.
> 
> Anyway I will check, how Zebralight finally makes SC600Fd and pre-order.


----------



## TCY

But Zebralight has a history of not supporting CR123s.


----------



## oKtosiTe

shrike2222 said:


> Also there is another reason I think SC600Fd will be adopted more battery room. That is CR123 batteries.
> SC600 MK3 can hold two CR123 batteries by input voltage, but mechanically two CR123 batteries' length is slight longer than battery tube, therefore tail cap is not tighten.
> 
> I knew, sinlge 18650 is much better than CR123 battery for discharge current, capacity, rechargeable and so on. But if new zebralight can accept two CR123s, that is better than now.


I just don't believe that's going to happen. The form factor will be the same as it is in the SC600-III now. Adding another form factor would increase cost and confuse consumers. As an owner of two SC600-III family lights already, I'm totally fine with that.


----------



## sidecross

oKtosiTe said:


> I just don't believe that's going to happen. The form factor will be the same as it is in the SC600-III now. Adding another form factor would increase cost and confuse consumers. As an owner of two SC600-III family lights already, I'm totally fine with that.


+1


----------



## recDNA

Nobody buy one! These are real crap! 




(and I don't want to wait months for mine!)


----------



## tops2

AussieRanga said:


> Anyone else see that there are now 3072 available output levels and 384 PID levels? OK, I know you all did but did you realize that number of PID levels is exactly 8 times less than the total available levels??
> 
> Maybe nothing but I like numbers :shrugs:
> 
> 
> On another note, I think they may have finally made some people happy... I speculate that M1 will increase and the current norm for M1 will be added to the M2 choices from now on. If that is the case, expect the lowest H2 level to increase to combat the floody nature of the beam





snowlover91 said:


> The more I hear about this light the harder it gets to wait. It sounds like they're overhauling the brightness levels and adding a lot of other improvements also. I know the day it pops up I'll be preordering, I just can't resist a 1600 lumen 93-95cri ZL with their excellent UI and what sounds like more balanced medium levels also.




If its 8 times more, maybe they added three extra "bits" in the controller to increase the number of output levels (384*2^3). 
But then not sure how they got 384 levels aside from the math of 2^9-2^7..

I also hope for an increase in one of the M levels too.
But more importantly, hopefully with the increased potential functionality, no bugs are introduced..


----------



## noboneshotdog

tops2 said:


> If its 8 times more, maybe they added three extra "bits" in the controller to increase the number of output levels (384*2^3).
> But then not sure how they got 384 levels aside from the math of 2^9-2^7..
> 
> I also hope for an increase in one of the M levels too.
> But more importantly, hopefully with the increased potential functionality, no bugs are introduced..



Speaking of bugs, this will be my first pre-order ZL. If there are any issues what's the typical protocol? Do we send them back for an updated version? Anyone with pre-order experience please do tell.


----------



## markr6

noboneshotdog said:


> Speaking of bugs, this will be my first pre-order ZL. If there are any issues what's the typical protocol? Do we send them back for an updated version? Anyone with pre-order experience please do tell.



I've never had what I call a bug. Just either a bad tint or artifact from the LED...both of which can happen on a preorder or a 2-year-old product. Either way, just contact Zebralight for an RMA # and return within 30 days for an exchange or refund.


----------



## noboneshotdog

markr6 said:


> I've never had what I call a bug. Just either a bad tint or artifact from the LED...both of which can happen on a preorder or a 2-year-old product. Either way, just contact Zebralight for an RMA # and return within 30 days for an exchange or refund.



Thanks. Simple enough!


----------



## Sulik

Pre-oreded H603c. Strob at Low don't work. I am not sending back only because I work with headlamp and can't wait new one. 100% I'we orded on ZL official site has reject. 100% from nkon.nl works fine. Just my bad luck.


----------



## Mr. Tone

No news? August is almost over 🍿


----------



## markr6

Mr. Tone said:


> No news? August is almost over 



Nothing yet. I'm still holding to my September announcement with in hands by October estimate. Hopefully I wasn't too generous?


----------



## Connor

When a company says "August" they always seem to mean August 31th around 23:59.59 .. :hairpull:


----------



## markr6

Connor said:


> When a company says "August" they always seem to mean August 31th around 23:59.59 .. :hairpull:



LOL! Or "August" as in Augtember


----------



## markr6

*SC600F III Plus *is now on the spreadsheet!! 1800 lumens! 70CRI

FD Plus down from 1600 to 1500lm. I'm still a buyer, though.


----------



## TCY

Man I seriously had a minor heart attack when I misinterpret that the HI CRI version is gone. Until I refresh the ZL spreadsheet


----------



## TCY

We are not gonna notice the 100 lumen difference. But we get better runtime and heat management!


----------



## markr6

TCY said:


> Man I seriously had a minor heart attack when I misinterpret that the HI CRI version is gone. Until I refresh the ZL spreadsheet



No kidding! Can't wait for this one. Any day now...



TCY said:


> We are not gonna notice the 100 lumen difference. But we get better runtime and heat management!




I agree. I don't like H1 modes anyway...just more heat than I like and a dead battery.


----------



## TCY

markr6 said:


> No kidding! Can't wait for this one. Any day now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I don't like H1 modes anyway...just more heat than I like and a dead battery.



BTW last time I bugged them, the pre-order page will be up before the end of this week. Let's hope its today!


----------



## markr6

TCY said:


> BTW last time I bugged them, the pre-order page will be up before the end of this week. Let's hope its today!



Oh yeah? In the past it always seemed like big things happened on Fridays. So, get ready!


----------



## TCY

Bad (sort of) news, the page will be up in 2-3 days.


----------



## StandardBattery

TCY said:


> Bad (sort of) news, the page will be up in 2-3 days.


Sounds like your bugging them too much. 2-3 days could still be it's up by the end of the week, or a day late. I don't see anything bad in the news. if it's still not up in 3 weeks then it's bad news.


----------



## TCY

StandardBattery said:


> Sounds like your bugging them too much. 2-3 days could still be it's up by the end of the week, or a day late. I don't see anything bad in the news. if it's still not up in 3 weeks then it's bad news.



Exactly, I bugged them too much. Gotta cool down a bit and let them work. Called it bad news as I had an illusion of the page coming up today.


----------



## noboneshotdog

What's the concensus around here on this light. Most people going with the high CRI version? I am!


----------



## TCY

noboneshotdog said:


> What's the concensus around here on this light. Most people going with the high CRI version? I am!



Welcome to the CRI party


----------



## oKtosiTe

TCY said:


> Welcome to the CRI party


Let's all get high... CRI!


----------



## markr6

High CRI all the way! I've been complaining about the lack of a Nichia 219 in Zebralights for years. While this isn't the Nichia, the 93-95 CRI should be good enough.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Pre-buy is on for this light! Mine is ordered!


----------



## noboneshotdog

September 24th shipping date. Not sure what the 16th level is from the description on thier page. Looks to be same UI we all know and love with maybe another programmable high level!


----------



## snowlover91

Thanks for the heads up, ordered mine and cannot wait! Estimated shipping is September 24th and I would recommend for other buyers to get the upgraded USPS Priority mail shipping. I've noticed with preorders those seem to get shipped quicker and take first priority, for whatever reason. I can't wait and the $4 is worth it lol. Ordered an extra battery too.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Lumen spacing looking REALLY good. No big gaps in levels.


----------



## snowlover91

Also they added this disclaimer in red at the top of the product info: "This flashlight draws a very high current from the batteries. You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures. Multiple pogo-pin battery contacts, rather than springs, are used in order to keep up with the high current draws and to consistently maintain an extremely low resistance over a long period of time. Unfortunately, only flat top unprotected 18650 batteries up to 65.2mm are compactible with the pogo-pin contacts. Frosted lenses have to be used in order to smooth out beam artifacts from quad die LEDs. The brightness can be perceived to be less compared to throwy lights with the same output."


----------



## noboneshotdog

Yup! $4.00 priority shopping and extra batteries!


----------



## noboneshotdog

Upon further inspection of the lumen levels I think I would have preferred a higher medium level.


----------



## markr6

ORDERED!


----------



## StandardBattery

We have the HI, soon we'll have the CRI.

Ordered!


----------



## sidecross

snowlover91 said:


> Also they added this disclaimer in red at the top of the product info: "This flashlight draws a very high current from the batteries. You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures. Multiple pogo-pin battery contacts, rather than springs, are used in order to keep up with the high current draws and to consistently maintain an extremely low resistance over a long period of time. Unfortunately, only flat top unprotected 18650 batteries up to 65.2mm are compactible with the pogo-pin contacts. Frosted lenses have to be used in order to smooth out beam artifacts from quad die LEDs. The brightness can be perceived to be less compared to throwy lights with the same output."


That is like a disclaimer on a Ferrari F12berlintta saying that it needs high octane fuel and a driver familiar with high speed.


----------



## TCY

ORDERED!

You guys might not believe this, I live in AU so it's still in the morning. I think I got up and checked the ZL page using my phone some 2 hours ago, no news so I went back to sleep. I literally dreamed someone posted on CPF "PRE-ORDER IS UP" so I thought I might as well check it out again. Guess dreams do tell you useful stuff:twothumbs


----------



## noboneshotdog

Do these ship from US for US residents?


----------



## snowlover91

noboneshotdog said:


> Do these ship from US for US residents?



Yep once they receive their shipment from china they arrive at the Texas warehouse and are distributed from there.


----------



## KeepingItLight

snowlover91 said:


> Also they added this disclaimer in red at the top of the product info:
> 
> "This flashlight draws a very high current from the batteries. You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures. Multiple pogo-pin battery contacts, rather than springs, are used in order to keep up with the high current draws and to consistently maintain an extremely low resistance over a long period of time. Unfortunately, only flat top unprotected 18650 batteries up to 65.2mm are compactible with the pogo-pin contacts. Frosted lenses have to be used in order to smooth out beam artifacts from quad die LEDs. The brightness can be perceived to be less compared to throwy lights with the same output."



Nice. 

I have been saying from the start that the requirement for an unprotected battery and pogo pins had more to do with amperage requirements than a wish for reduced size. Here is a flashlight that proves it.

The Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA battery is rated at a 10-amp continuous draw, so it can power the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III Plus* easily. I may go with the Samsung INR18650-30Q battery, however, as it is rated for a 15-amp continuous discharge. 

As these batteries age, and their internal resistances (IR) increase, it will become harder for them to make their maximum discharge rates. They will still be able to do it, but runtimes may be less, due to more voltage being lost inside the battery. 

I like the 30Q, because it gives you more headroom. Even after IR rises a bit, it should have no trouble making 8 amps.

Be forewarned, however, this is just a theory. I have no real test data for either of these batteries to prove it.


----------



## KeepingItLight

TCY said:


> <snip>
> Guess dreams do tell you useful stuff:twothumbs



Lol! I love your tongue-in-cheek. 

During World War II, millions of wives and mothers dreamed regularly that their loved ones had been killed in action. The few who were tragically right became big fodder for silly newspaper stories about ESP.

They still are.

No one ever wrote a story saying 999,999 mothers were wrong.


----------



## noboneshotdog

[

No one ever wrote a story saying 999,999 mothers were wrong.[/QUOTE]

Not unless they wanted to be in the dog house for a LONG LONG time!


----------



## TCY

Not sure if the 30Q would fit, I thought they are 66mm long?


----------



## TCY

KeepingItLight said:


> Lol! I love your tongue-in-cheek.
> 
> During World War II, millions of wives and mothers dreamed regularly that their loved ones had been killed in action. The few who were tragically right became big fodder for silly newspaper stories about ESP.
> 
> They still are.
> 
> No one ever wrote a story saying 999,999 mothers were wrong.



Truth be told several days ago I had a dream where markr6 plays with a SC600Fd III Plus issued by ZL because of his tint-snobness and the rest of us had to watch. :devil:


----------



## RTTR

Now if ZL would just put a XHP35 HI in the SC63 i'd be set


----------



## KeepingItLight

TCY said:


> Not sure if the 30Q would fit, I thought they are 66mm long?



According to Section 3.10 of the Samsung datasheet, the 30Q is a fit:



> Cell dimension
> Height : 64.85 ± 0.15mm
> Diameter : 18.33 ± 0.07mm



These dimensions are for the flat-top version. You may be thinking of the button-top version.


----------



## Bob_McBob

What kind of beam profile can we expect for this light? Earlier in the thread there is a reply from ZL saying it should be much brighter than the frosted floody headlamps. I assume it won't be quite the same since the reflector is much larger.


----------



## Connor

Bob_McBob said:


> What kind of beam profile can we expect for this light?



Webpage says 90° beam, somewhere in between the H600Fw and SC600w.


----------



## StandardBattery

KeepingItLight said:


> According to Section 3.10 of the Samsung datasheet, the 30Q is a fit:
> 
> 
> 
> These dimensions are for the flat-top version. You may be thinking of the button-top version.



Yup; 30Q is one of the smaller 18650 cells so it should easily fit.


----------



## lizongyu

LG MJ1 and Sanyo GA are 65.2mm long.
Samsung 30Q and LG HG2 are 64.9mm long.
Slightly battery rattle when I use 30Q or HG2 in SC600 MkIII HI.
I think the GA and MJ1 will fit better.


----------



## snowlover91

Words can't even begin to describe the anticipation I have for this light to arrive. Waiting ~1 month is going to seem like forever! This light has such high expectations that it will have a lot to live up to!


----------



## neil944

TCY said:


> Not sure if the 30Q would fit, I thought they are 66mm long?


My 30Q is slightly too long for the SC600 HI and the SC63. It's longer than the flattop 18650b Panasonic by about the length of the button. It's unprotected but does have a slight button top that makes it too long.

I didn't realize there were two versions until I got it in. [emoji107]


----------



## TCY

KeepingItLight said:


> According to Section 3.10 of the Samsung datasheet, the 30Q is a fit:
> 
> 
> 
> These dimensions are for the flat-top version. You may be thinking of the button-top version.



Gotcha, I was indeed thinking of the button-top version. Didn't know it has a flat-headed sibling.


----------



## TCY

neil944 said:


> My 30Q is slightly too long for the SC600 HI and the SC63. It's longer than the flattop 18650b Panasonic by about the length of the button. It's unprotected but does have a slight button top that makes it too long.
> 
> I didn't realize there were two versions until I got it in. [emoji107]



Grab some 18650GA and a Meteor M43 for your 30Q, it never hurts to have some more batteries and flashlights


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> Words can't even begin to describe the anticipation I have for this light to arrive. Waiting ~1 month is going to seem like forever! This light has such high expectations that it will have a lot to live up to!



I was hoping they would start shipping in 2 weeks. Another month of waiting is a bit unbearable.


----------



## TCY

So I have to ask, when a ZL pre-order page has an estimated shipping date, do they usually stick to that promise or is there a chance that they would send lights to us a bit earlier?


----------



## Bob_McBob

Can I ask how everyone intends to use this flashlight? I totally understand the appeal of a floody beam for situations like hiking or working in close quarters, and indeed I have a ZL headlamp on the way. I am extremely drawn to high quality light, but I'm not sure where the SC600Fd+ fits when it isn't a headlamp or an easily pocketable EDC light. Are there any similar lights in terms of size and beam profile I can read up on?


----------



## tops2

Wow! Preorder with a 1 month wait. I don't think I can wait that long! Wonder if I should preorder, then try not to buy anything till after.
I like the M1 at 100 lumens.



Bob_McBob said:


> Can I ask how everyone intends to use this flashlight? I totally understand the appeal of a floody beam for situations like hiking or working in close quarters, and indeed I have a ZL headlamp on the way. I am extremely drawn to high quality light, but I'm not sure where the SC600Fd+ fits when it isn't a headlamp or an easily pocketable EDC light. Are there any similar lights in terms of size and beam profile I can read up on?



At least my idea now is just to use it as handheld flashlight. And when going for a walk, I find holding a flash light way more comfortable than holding a head lamp. I like everything about the H600Fd aside from hand holding when walking/hiking straight. But everyone's different.


----------



## TCY

If you really want this light you should preorder now. ZL expects up to two months to fill the pre orders alone. Like the HI version, it will probably be on back order for a LONG time after preorder ends.

I plan to use mine as a general EDC light. It's not a whole lot beefier than my SC62W so it will get along with my pants just fine.


----------



## KeepingItLight

I _want_ this flashlight, but I cannot say I _need_ to have it this month or next. 

I am going to wait out the first adopters, and see what the reviewers have to say. On paper, however, it looks like a no-brainer. A 1500-lumen flashlight with 5000K CCT and 93-95 CRI (Ra), all in the compact size of a ZebraLight SC600, is just what the doctor ordered.


----------



## wolfgaze

I'm torn between pre-ordering and just waiting... It's not a necessity that I get one anytime soon - but there's always the appeal of getting a new light and I'm interested in finding new high CRI options for pocketable flashlights... I also enjoy floody beam profiles....


----------



## TCY

wolfgaze said:


> I'm torn between pre-ordering and just waiting... It's not a necessity that I get one anytime soon - but there's always the appeal of getting a new light and I'm intereting in finding new high CRI options for pocketable flashlights... I also enjoy floody beam profiles....



So there are at least 3 reasons to pre-order


----------



## oKtosiTe

noboneshotdog said:


> September 24th shipping date. Not sure what the 16th level is from the description on thier page. Looks to be same UI we all know and love with maybe another programmable high level!


The new models have three M2 levels as opposed to two.


----------



## Swede74

Usually, disclaimers, caveats and warnings give me cold feet, but in this case, the long paragraph in red actually makes me want one even more. 

While it would be nice to get my greedy hands on one as quickly as possible, I do not mind the wait. Assuming dealers will have this in stock by October or early November, it is going to be so easy to justify buying one because:

- By then days will have become noticeably shorter, and the need for a bright, reliable light much greater.
- It is the best time of the year - the only time of the year - when it is perfectly acceptable to buy yourself a Christmas gift.


----------



## Lex Icon

ZL should offer this flooder along with the mkIII Hi in a bundle. They seem symbiotic, like Siamese twins where one is born nearsighted, the other farsighted. A person buying one will likely want the other.


----------



## tops2

I like how Zebralight put the warning for the Plus. They should put it on the other versions of the SC600 MKIII. I like how Illumn put a warning on their page too.

I like the bump in M1 too. With my H600Fd, the M1 level always felt too dim due to the flood. I end up using the lowest H2 setting a lot more.

But it's almost like Zebralight has read our comments here (and probably elsewhere too) and took implemented some suggestions/wishes.

I'm also torn on preordering too.. The "smart" thing for me to do is probably take a break from CPF for a month (or two) and wait for the lights to have been shipped. But I'll most likely still log in here multiple times a day and click on all the Zebralight threads still and keep contemplating preordering!


----------



## sidecross

I will pass on this extraordinary engineered flashlight because it does not offer better utility than my SC600 Mk3.

The high output in such a small mass of a flashlight will produce as much heat as light, and for my high output needs the compact design of this XHP50 light will make its use at high output impracticable.

I do understand the excitement many have expressed, and look forward to reports on using this new ZebraLight.


----------



## samgab

Well, during the night last week, a scumbag piece of I-won't-say-what stole my toolbox out of my work ute, which -among other things - contained my first generation ZL SC600 in it. The original SC600 has served me faithfully for the last 5 years, and I'm very upset to have had it stolen. The only glitch with it was the power switch was a little bit hit and miss, you had to click it quite hard with a thumb nail to make it register a "click", but other than that it was still perfect. Had a mint AW 18650 cell in it too, which I'm also annoyed about.
ANYWAY, I guess now is a good time to get a replacement SC600, and I think the SC600Fd III Plus XHP50 will be just the ticket. I definitely prefer a high CRI light, and floody is my preference, for the type of work I do with it. Pre-ordering this one then. A month or two without an SC600 will be difficult, I used my old one most days.


----------



## TCY

sidecross said:


> I will pass on this extraordinary engineered flashlight because it does not offer better utility than my SC600 Mk3.
> 
> The high output in such a small mass of a flashlight will produce as much heat as light, and for my high output needs the compact design of this XHP50 light will make its use at high output impracticable.
> 
> I do understand the excitement many have expressed, and look forward to reports on using this new ZebraLight.




I assume that many of us are hyping because of the combination of neutral tint + HI CRI. If it's just cool white XHP50+ floody beam profile I'm sure that there will be a lot less people interested in this light, we have Armytek for that. 

That said, 1500 lumens + neutral tint + *high CRI* in a pocketable form factor is something hard to resist. Before this we either choose CREE LEDS for high output but awkward CRI (sometimes, tint as well), or Nichia (291B&C) for less light but far better colour rendition. For some the frosted lens would be a huge plus too. Throw in the tried-and-true Zebralight UI and PID, you get a near perfect EDC flashlight, even for tint snobs. 

I will be writing a 'first impression' when I get it, but it'll probably be a bit biased


----------



## TCY

samgab said:


> Well, during the night last week, a scumbag piece of I-won't-say-what stole my toolbox out of my work ute, which -among other things - contained my first generation ZL SC600 in it. The original SC600 has served me faithfully for the last 5 years, and I'm very upset to have had it stolen. The only glitch with it was the power switch was a little bit hit and miss, you had to click it quite hard with a thumb nail to make it register a "click", but other than that it was still perfect. Had a mint AW 18650 cell in it too, which I'm also annoyed about.
> ANYWAY, I guess now is a good time to get a replacement SC600, and I think the SC600Fd III Plus XHP50 will be just the ticket. I definitely prefer a high CRI light, and floody is my preference, for the type of work I do with it. Pre-ordering this one then. A month or two without an SC600 will be difficult, I used my old one most days.



Sorry to hear that mate, I know the feeling of something that you carry for a long time suddenly disappears for whatever reason.


----------



## StandardBattery

tops2 said:


> ....
> I like the bump in M1 too. With my H600Fd, the M1 level always felt too dim due to the flood. I end up using the lowest H2 setting a lot more.
> ....



This is actually my one concern about this light. While I under stand your reasoning, and I even agree with it, I see an issue. H2 is easy access with a quick click if it is your chosen default H level, but M1 will require a double click, which is different than every light i own. I'm sure I can adjust, but I have a feeling I would be more often than not burning extra lumens and electrons on H2 quite often if I use this for EDC. I don't want to press and hold it for M level, holding for L is my limit when I want light. I'm really happy with my levels setup on the 62W so I think it will be very hard for me to change EDC. I can't wait to try this light though, it seems just amazing. If the CRI is really 90 or above I will have a nice companion for my Sundrop and will be very happy with this light, even if it's not my EDC light. You never know maybe I'll quickly adapt, but I tried it for a while with the Mk III HI and even though that is the best SC600 I think they have made yet it has not bumped the SC62w from EDC yet.


----------



## Connor

> Light Output H2: 666 Lm



:devil: *666 *:devil:

Sorry, it had to be said. :laughing:


----------



## staticx57

Ordered!


----------



## markr6

Echoing a lot of others on this light.

1. Totally a want not a need
2. CRI is impossible to resist
3. September 24 is like a million years away! I got my last preorder very early though. Maybe weeks earlier on this one?
4. Love the 100lm medium! Need that for the perceived drop in brightness from the frosted lens. Trust ZL; they're not just making this stuff up.


----------



## samgab

TCY said:


> Sorry to hear that mate, I know the feeling of something that you carry for a long time suddenly disappears for whatever reason.



Yeah, it sucks alright. But on the plus side, I've now pre-ordered this. Plus, for good measure, I also placed a separate order from the ZL website for an SC5Fd High CRI Floody Neutral White , which is in stock and is like a little brother to this SC600Fd. Retail therapy.


----------



## fnsooner

TCY said:


> That said, 1500 lumens + neutral tint + *high CRI* in a pocketable form factor is something hard to resist.



Resistance is futile for this reasoning. I really thought I could pass on this one but I broke down and just pre-ordered. Hopefully I didn’t wait too long and will get in on the first batch shipping out to us consumers.

I can’t believe that this is the first flashlight that I have purchased since Jan 1. The wait begins.


----------



## PeterRamish

sidecross said:


> I will pass on this extraordinary engineered flashlight because it does not offer better utility than my SC600 Mk3.
> 
> The high output in such a small mass of a flashlight will produce as much heat as light, and for my high output needs the compact design of this XHP50 light will make its use at high output impracticable.
> 
> I do understand the excitement many have expressed, and look forward to reports on using this new ZebraLight.



Yes... Hummm... I am sure we have all, at one time or another, come upon a fatal crash at a lonely country road with a 4-way intersection that has no warning stop signs. Here the roads are at the intersection of Physics, Engineering, Marketing, and Hopeful Consumers.


----------



## roger-roger

Has it been determined if the Plus is being manufactured in China or Texas?


----------



## sidecross

PeterRamish said:


> Yes... Hummm... I am sure we have all, at one time or another, come upon a fatal crash at a lonely country road with a 4-way intersection that has no warning stop signs. Here the roads are at the intersection of Physics, Engineering, Marketing, and Hopeful Consumers.


My current ZebraLight SC600 Mklll XHP35 serves me well on roads like that.


----------



## TCY

fnsooner said:


> Resistance is futile for this reasoning. I really thought I could pass on this one but I broke down and just pre-ordered. Hopefully I didn’t wait too long and will get in on the first batch shipping out to us consumers.
> 
> I can’t believe that this is the first flashlight that I have purchased since Jan 1. The wait begins.



Yep, (besides a BLF 348) this is the first flashlight I have purchased since 2016 too. 

Markr6 says he got his last pre-order from ZL very quickly. Here's to hope they start shipping this light within a week


----------



## TCY

roger-roger said:


> Has it been determined if the Plus is being manufactured in China or Texas?



Texas will be their main production place in the future but this one is still made in China.


----------



## snowlover91

I intend to use my light similar to the SC5fd I had. I say "had" because my wife liked it so much she now uses it all the time and says it's her light lol. Anyways it is great for reading, produces a nice clean bean and it was pretty good with 83-85cri and 5000k tint. The biggest drawbacks with it were the short run times on the higher modes due to the limitations of single AA cells. 

The MK3 Plus should do everything it did and more. It'll give me more cri, a clean tint (hopefully!), much longer runtimes and about three times the lumen output. With the frosted lens it'll be great for things from hiking, around the house activities, indoors, up close work and other similar uses. Now I just have to hide it from the wife, at least I have a month or so to figure that out


----------



## delerious

Hope you don't mind a potentially dumb question here. The ZL website says "You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures." How can I tell how many amps a battery is capable of? I just checked a few battery websites and they do not provide that information.


----------



## TCY

delerious said:


> Hope you don't mind a potentially dumb question here. The ZL website says "You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures." How can I tell how many amps a battery is capable of? I just checked a few battery websites and they do not provide that information.



Websites should have these tech specs listed. If you can't decide which one to get just grab a NCR18650GA, perfect for the Plus.


----------



## KeepingItLight

TCY said:


> Websites should have these tech specs listed. If you can't decide which one to get just grab a NCR18650GA, perfect for the Plus.




Yes! 

If you buy from ZebraLight directly, you can also order this battery there.


----------



## tops2

snowlover91 said:


> I intend to use my light similar to the SC5fd I had. I say "had" because my wife liked it so much she now uses it all the time and says it's her light lol. Anyways it is great for reading, produces a nice clean bean and it was pretty good with 83-85cri and 5000k tint. The biggest drawbacks with it were the short run times on the higher modes due to the limitations of single AA cells.
> 
> The MK3 Plus should do everything it did and more. It'll give me more cri, a clean tint (hopefully!), much longer runtimes and about three times the lumen output. With the frosted lens it'll be great for things from hiking, around the house activities, indoors, up close work and other similar uses. Now I just have to hide it from the wife, at least I have a month or so to figure that out



I'm wondering how the Plus will look compared to the H600Fd. Especially at the same/similar lumens, I wonder if the beam will look almost identical. Another reason I haven't preordered is I'm perfectly happy with my H600Fd at the moment.


----------



## samgab

delerious said:


> Hope you don't mind a potentially dumb question here. The ZL website says "You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures." How can I tell how many amps a battery is capable of? I just checked a few battery websites and they do not provide that information.



Yes, as mentioned above; if you can source them, the NCR18650GA is a good option.
Also, check Vaping forums and websites, as they like a high drain 18650.
The Samsung 25R is good for 20A constant current discharge.
The Samsung 30Q is rated for 15A CC discharge and has a good capacity of 3000mAh.
The Sony VTC4 is supposed to be good for up to 30A CC discharge.
Sony VTC5 good for >20A CC, VTC5A good for 25A CC.
The LG HE4 should do 20A. LG HB6 up to 30A. LG HG2 20A and 3000mAh.

So you've got a few choices out there that will happily discharge over and above 8A without breaking a sweat.
Also, check HKJ's cell tests for comparisons and discharge tests on lots of different kinds of 18650's.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php


----------



## Mr. Tone

1500 OTF lumens is a lot for a compact 18650 light, and these aren't just any lumens but hi CRI and neutral white lumens plus sub-lumen levels :twothumbs I will be pre-ordering soon. I like the idea of the light being more diffused from the frosted lens, it should be a nice complement to the neutral white hi CRI light coming out of it. This kind of light and performance has been something I have desired a long time but didn't exist. Thanks to Zebralight for bringing such a light to the market. The Zebralight specs on this look great to me with the different programmable levels they chose, too. These are great times to be a flashaholic, I am glad that this isn't going to be vaporware as it seemed to good to be true. Just another month or so now.


----------



## roger-roger

tops2 said:


> I'm wondering how the Plus will look compared to the H600Fd. Especially at the same/similar lumens, I wonder if the beam will look almost identical. Another reason I haven't preordered is I'm perfectly happy with my H600Fd at the moment.




All things being equal, there's the 10 point increase in CRI. Hopefully we'll get some meaning full comparisons on that.


----------



## StandardBattery

roger-roger said:


> All things being equal, there's the 10 point increase in CRI. Hopefully we'll get some meaning full comparisons on that.


Don't expect too much in that regard, most users are not using color matched systems from browser to screen, and less are doing it from camera to file. We might get a couple shots of a pantone color card under a few lighting conditions, but most will really only be able to say weather they see a difference, rather than any quantifying of the result. Maybe a photographer will be able to give us a technical analysis at some point from color calibration software. I think the most important part is we should be able to get a good CRI at a great output level. No typical choice between CRI and max lumens, so it should make a great light for photography, and daylight equivalent material analysis.


----------



## sidecross

StandardBattery said:


> Don't expect too much in that regard, most users are not using color matched systems from browser to screen, and less are doing it from camera to file. We might get a couple shots of a pantone color card under a few lighting conditions, but most will really only be able to say weather they see a difference, rather than any quantifying of the result. Maybe a photographer will be able to give us a technical analysis at some point from color calibration software. I think the most important part is we should be able to get a good CRI at a great output level. No typical choice between CRI and max lumens, so it should make a great light for photography, and daylight equivalent material analysis.




+1


----------



## TCY

I was bored enough to go thru the first 20 pages of the SC63 thread. Turns out that ZL does stick to their estimated shipping date promise. Our wait begins.


----------



## cmd

I said I was going to pass on this one simply because 90 degrees is a bit wide, but just could not resist that high CRI along with the high output.

Preordered.


----------



## TCY

cmd said:


> I said I was going to pass on this one simply because 90 degrees is a bit wide, but just could not resist that high CRI along with the high output.
> 
> Preordered.



Welcome to the club


----------



## markr6

I like how they (tried to) shut down all the complaints up front, specifically the battery and lower perceived brightness. Some will still complain. But at this point, they know people are going to say their $15 walmart flashlight looks brighter. It may, with a tiny 6500K blue 500lm laser-tight beam. But that's definitely not what this light is about.

It is important to know what you're getting into before buying, and I'm glad they provided the info especially for those outside of CPF and the like.

_This flashlight draws a very high current from the batteries. You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures. Multiple pogo-pin battery contacts, rather than springs, are used in order to keep up with the high current draws and to consistently maintain an extremely low resistance over a long period of time. Unfortunately, only flat top unprotected 18650 batteries up to 65.2mm are compactible with the pogo-pin contacts. Frosted lenses have to be used in order to smooth out beam artifacts from quad die LEDs. The brightness can be perceived to be less compared to throwy lights with the same output._


----------



## TCY

markr6 said:


> I like how they (tried to) shut down all the complaints up front, specifically the battery and lower perceived brightness. Some will still complain. But at this point, they know people are going to say their $15 walmart flashlight looks brighter. It may, with a tiny 6500K blue 500lm laser-tight beam. But that's definitely not what this light is about.
> 
> It is important to know what you're getting into before buying, and I'm glad they provided the info especially for those outside of CPF and the like.
> 
> _This flashlight draws a very high current from the batteries. You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures. Multiple pogo-pin battery contacts, rather than springs, are used in order to keep up with the high current draws and to consistently maintain an extremely low resistance over a long period of time. Unfortunately, only flat top unprotected 18650 batteries up to 65.2mm are compactible with the pogo-pin contacts. Frosted lenses have to be used in order to smooth out beam artifacts from quad die LEDs. The brightness can be perceived to be less compared to throwy lights with the same output._



They probably went thru the SC63 thread and saw people complained about battery restrictions and thought "Might as well tell them to go away if they don't like our battery plans in big bold red font" :devil:

On an unrelated subject, I wonder when will they post runtime info. Zebralight is known to have top notch circuitry efficiency and runtimes, but I still want to know if they can blow Armytek out of the water on a single 18650 XHP50 setup.


----------



## markr6

I'm wondering about those runtimes too. I hate the <1hr showoff modes. I guess that would just be H1. The spacing looks fine, so hopefully the runtimes are good.

I'm afraid I'll be using the 1500lm mode a lot of make up for the lack of throw. In fact, I just don't think I'll have much use for this light...but I must have it!!


----------



## twistedraven

I don't have much use for my E14, so I know I won't have much use for this light. If only Zebralight could put it in a headlamp and limit max output to around 1000 lumens-- basically just make the H600FD but with higher CRI.


----------



## TCY

markr6 said:


> I'm wondering about those runtimes too. I hate the <1hr showoff modes. I guess that would just be H1. The spacing looks fine, so hopefully the runtimes are good.
> 
> I'm afraid I'll be using the 1500lm mode a lot of make up for the lack of throw. In fact, I just don't think I'll have much use for this light...but I must have it!!



+1500 on using H1 to make up for throw and must have it:laughing:

I would guess for a 1.5 hours runtime on H1 with an aggressive PID. Good thing I have some spare 18650GAs just lying around waiting to be stuffed into the Plus.


----------



## TCY

twistedraven said:


> I don't have much use for my E14, so I know I won't have much use for this light. If only Zebralight could put it in a headlamp and limit max output to around 1000 lumens-- basically just make the H600FD but with higher CRI.



I doubt they would do that to replace H600Fd mk3, +10 CRI alone doesn't seem to justify the making of a new model. That's just my 2 cents though.


----------



## sidecross

markr6 said:


> I like how they (tried to) shut down all the complaints up front, specifically the battery and lower perceived brightness. Some will still complain. But at this point, they know people are going to say their $15 walmart flashlight looks brighter. It may, with a tiny 6500K blue 500lm laser-tight beam. But that's definitely not what this light is about.
> 
> It is important to know what you're getting into before buying, and I'm glad they provided the info especially for those outside of CPF and the like.
> 
> _This flashlight draws a very high current from the batteries. You MUST use unprotected 18650s capable of 8A or more, and from name brand manufactures. Multiple pogo-pin battery contacts, rather than springs, are used in order to keep up with the high current draws and to consistently maintain an extremely low resistance over a long period of time. Unfortunately, only flat top unprotected 18650 batteries up to 65.2mm are compactible with the pogo-pin contacts. Frosted lenses have to be used in order to smooth out beam artifacts from quad die LEDs. The brightness can be perceived to be less compared to throwy lights with the same output._


+1

This is a sophisticated flashlight and if you need to explain about battery length and current you may not be ready for this particular flashlight.


----------



## markr6

sidecross said:


> +1
> 
> This is a sophisticated flashlight and if you need to explain about battery length and current you may not be ready for this particular flashlight.



That's what I like about Zebralight. Everything seems well thought out. Almost a modder-type light that a "normal" person can use as well. Maybe we're starting to get into a gray area with these higher draws, but still plenty safe IMO.


----------



## sidecross

markr6 said:


> That's what I like about Zebralight. Everything seems well thought out. Almost a modder-type light that a "normal" person can use as well. Maybe we're starting to get into a gray area with these higher draws, but still plenty safe IMO.


+1

I agree that people who are responsible should have no problem.

When the Kawasaki Ninja road motorcycle first came out with a 16" front wheel, the unprepared found out the hard way about abut the advantages and disadvantages.


----------



## twistedraven

TCY said:


> I doubt they would do that to replace H600Fd mk3, +10 CRI alone doesn't seem to justify the making of a new model. That's just my 2 cents though.




Oh I know it wouldn't happen, Zebralight wouldn't want to overshadow one of their recent headlamps so quickly. I'm just dreaming on what I would ideally want out of Zebralight.


----------



## StandardBattery

With the range on these lights now, I'm wanting quick runtime access to more levels. 

What do you guys think of having the double-click while on modified. I propose a double-click from on switches between levels 1/2 as it does today but if you do it (d-c) a second time within 2 seconds it switches to the next Sub-Level (rather than back to H1), the sub-level though is not saved when you turn it off all your level 2 settings stay as programmed.

So if you're on *H1* for example: d-c *H2* <2s d-c *H2s1* <2s d-c *H2s2* <2s d-c *Hs23* <2s d-c *H2s1* >2s d-c *H1* 

Or maybe the H2s level it moves to first is relative to the current H2?

Crazy or Genius?


----------



## scs

StandardBattery said:


> With the range on these lights now, I'm wanting quick runtime access to more levels.
> 
> What do you guys think of having the double-click while on modified. I propose a double-click from on switches between levels 1/2 as it does today but if you do it (d-c) a second time within 2 seconds it switches to the next Sub-Level (rather than back to H1), the sub-level though is not saved when you turn it off all your level 2 settings stay as programmed.
> 
> So if you're on *H1* for example: d-c *H2* <2s d-c *H2s1* <2s d-c *H2s2* <2s d-c *Hs23* <2s d-c *H2s1* >2s d-c *H1*
> 
> Or maybe the H2s level it moves to first is relative to the current H2?
> 
> Crazy or Genius?



What about the current double click 6x to enter programming mode? BTW, there already are discussions regarding changes to the UI in other threads.


----------



## psychbeat

I hope they don't change the UI as drastically as all of these proposals ..
Would really make it tough going back & forth between my multiple zebras....

I would love to see the xhp50 in a headlamp/angle body. 
Especially in a little warmer temp.

3 tiers one double click to rule them all!


----------



## TCY

twistedraven said:


> Oh I know it wouldn't happen, Zebralight wouldn't want to overshadow one of their recent headlamps so quickly. I'm just dreaming on what I would ideally want out of Zebralight.



A 90+ CRI floody headlamp from Zebra that puts out 1000+ lumens. Certainly hard to resist.


----------



## StandardBattery

scs said:


> What about the current double click 6x to enter programming mode? BTW, there already are discussions regarding changes to the UI in other threads.


Well good question... more tricky; less than 6 are needed to cycle through all the levels, or one could change it so programming can only be started from a Level 1 setting, and temporary level selection can only be started from a Level 2 setting?


----------



## TCY

When it comes to UI I would personally like this for a change.

Keep the 6 double clicks to switch between default secondary level, but double click and hold the second click (like you would do on UI3 if you have a M43) to cycle through available modes for this one time, do a normal double click to get back to main (H1, M1, L1) level.

Example: The H2 on your Plus is currently 429 lumens. Normal double clicks to switch between 1500 and 429. If you need 270 or 666 for one time without changing your default 429, double click but hold your second click to cycle through 270, 429 and 666, just like press & hold to cycle through low-mid-high like your Zebralight light does now. Double click again to go back to 1500. No mode memory for this feature.


----------



## noboneshotdog

It wouldn't surprise me that at some point they inform us how to program lumen levels as they informed us how to access PID levels. I'm sure these are all accessible with the right combination of button presses. Plus they have a new microprocessor in this light as well that is supposedly much more advanced than previous models.


----------



## StandardBattery

TCY said:


> When it comes to UI I would personally like this for a change.
> 
> Keep the 6 double clicks to switch between default secondary level, but double click and hold the second click (like you would do on UI3 if you have a M43) to cycle through available modes for this one time, do a normal double click to get back to main (H1, M1, L1) level.
> 
> Example: The H2 on your Plus is currently 429 lumens. Normal double clicks to switch between 1500 and 429. If you need 270 or 666 for one time without changing your default 429, double click but hold your second click to cycle through 270, 429 and 666, just like press & hold to cycle through low-mid-high like your Zebralight light does now. Double click again to go back to 1500. No mode memory for this feature.


I think I could go for that. Makes sense and keeps the switching more aligned with the current program. Send it to Zebralight, as a suggestion if they like we could run a poll for them


----------



## TCY

StandardBattery said:


> I think I could go for that. Makes sense and keeps the switching more aligned with the current program. Send it to Zebralight, as a suggestion if they like we could run a poll for them



Already did. If they can actually do this I hope it's a hidden option that you can activate so if people prefer the original UI they can keep it that way:twothumbs


----------



## StandardBattery

TCY said:


> Already did. If they can actually do this I hope it's a hidden option that you can activate so if people prefer the original UI they can keep it that way:twothumbs


As long as it's not 250 double clicks to enable it 

Actually it's hidden enough, I'm not sure you would need to have an enable/disable. as long as the selection is temporary then even if someone triggered it by accident no harm done once they make a click or d-c, they are back to normal. I think this is a good extension that does not ruin the original UI. I don't want them really to change that, or to have different UIs to choose from, so I like this as it can really be an extension without them having to go to a second button.


----------



## roger-roger

A second button, or a second any other kind physical control, goes against a fundamental on which Zebralight products are based. I seriously don't see any danger of this happening.


----------



## eraursls1984

TCY said:


> When it comes to UI I would personally like this for a change.
> 
> Keep the 6 double clicks to switch between default secondary level, but double click and hold the second click (like you would do on UI3 if you have a M43) to cycle through available modes for this one time, do a normal double click to get back to main (H1, M1, L1) level.
> 
> Example: The H2 on your Plus is currently 429 lumens. Normal double clicks to switch between 1500 and 429. If you need 270 or 666 for one time without changing your default 429, double click but hold your second click to cycle through 270, 429 and 666, just like press & hold to cycle through low-mid-high like your Zebralight light does now. Double click again to go back to 1500. No mode memory for this feature.


This would probably be the best way to add functionality and keep the spirit of Zebralight. I personally would like to see this but with infinite ramping, but using the preset modes would work.


----------



## TCY

eraursls1984 said:


> This would probably be the best way to add functionality and keep the spirit of Zebralight. I personally would like to see this but with infinite ramping, but using the preset modes would work.



Hope there's still time for ZL to maybe add this into their UI as a last minute upgrade for the Plus. Or they might laugh at us and doesn't do it at all.


----------



## JKolmo

The UI proposed by TCY would be really great, I like the idea a lot!


----------



## oKtosiTe

psychbeat said:


> 3 tiers one double click to rule them all!


Three tiers one double click master race!
But really, I think Zebralights have a great EDC interface. Please don't change a winning team.
I suppose I could live with TCY's changes. Wait, I'm contradicting myself.


----------



## markr6

I would like to keep the UI same, but maybe have some even more advanced programming. Like being able to go into a program mode and have it ramp up/down...wherever you stop is the new level. But that would totally screw up your runtimes unless you ran your own test.


----------



## TCY

Don't get me wrong, the ZL UI is the best flashlight UI I've ever come across, I just would like extra features to gain access to other hidden levels quicker. My proposal of the UI is an extension of the existing UI, not a modification, so if it ever gets implemented it won't change the way the UI works now. I certainly love the idea of infinite ramping but unfortunately ZL said they won't consider it.


----------



## eraursls1984

I would also love them to add a couple more modes for each subset. 

Being able to program L1, M1, and H1 would be nice as well. You could just start off in the mode you want to change, then start the 6 double click to get into programming.


----------



## markr6

eraursls1984 said:


> I would also love them to add a couple more modes for each subset.
> 
> Being able to program L1, M1, and H1 would be nice as well. You could just start off in the mode you want to change, then start the 6 double click to get into programming.



That would be nice. Actually, all I really want is the ability to use two H2 modes instead of H1 and one H2...on all Zebralights now that I think of it.


----------



## eraursls1984

markr6 said:


> That would be nice. Actually, all I really want is the ability to use two H2 modes instead of H1 and one H2...on all Zebralights now that I think of it.


I would also love to use the lowest H2 as M1. I hate how the lower M2 is so close to L1 and the higher M2 is too close to M1. I think at least a mode in between the two M2, if not making the lowest H2 the new M1, could help.


----------



## TCY

To sum up: fully programmable UI:thumbsup:


----------



## kellyglanzer

Go get em.

Just ordered. Sept 24th shipping date.

Date Ordered: 8/30/2016
ZLSC600Fd Plus SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50 Floody Neutral White 18650 Flashlight $99.00

------------------------
LOL, oops. i guess everyone knows that already. Oh well. i just saw it so it was exciting to me. LOL


----------



## roger-roger

markr6 said:


> That would be nice. Actually, all I really want is the ability to use two H2 modes instead of H1 and one H2...on all Zebralights now that I think of it.




This. I might be wrong but much more than that, and ZL may very well alienate their primary market. ZL products are more like the original Acura NSX rather than a Lamborghini. We'll see what happens.


----------



## markr6

In general though, I'm just being picky. There's really not much to complain about with these lights.


----------



## KeepingItLight

One of the best features about the ZebraLight user interface is that it is constant, or nearly so, across a wide variety of products. ZebraLight has been wise to avoid fiddling with the UI on every new model it releases. 

With that said, let me describe the "fiddle" I have imagined for some time. I'll present the gist of it, without trying to present the exact sequence of clicks

All levels should be programmable, including H1, M1, and L1. To program a mode, one should first select a mode that you want to replace, and then enter program mode. This could be accomplished with the same set of 6 double-clicks now used. 

In program mode, you should be allowed to choose any level, perhaps via ramping. Press-and-hold could accomplish this. Otherwise, all 11 (or 12) constant modes should be presented in a cycle when you double-click. This is similar to the current interface, except you would have access to all levels.

Once a level has been selected, click once to lock it in (and turn off the flashlight). This is how the current UI works. Note that the new level may not be in the right place. You could, for instance, choose to replace the mode assigned to H1 with a very low mode. Therefore, the final step in programming should be for the flashlight to automatically sort the selected levels into ascending order, and reassign all levels accordingly. 

Thus, if the new level were lower than all others, it would drop into place as L2, even if the mode you were replacing were H1. The old L2 would become L1, the old L1 would become M2, and so on, with all the other modes bumping up one notch. The old H2 would become H1.


----------



## psychbeat

^^How would you ever remember what mode was what and how would you know the runtimes?

The nice thing about set levels is that there is a general guideline from zebra as to what to expect output and runtime-wise.

Stock/fixed UI not be as fun to play with fiddling with a million modes and ramping etc but in the end these are lighting tools made to do stuff with


----------



## tops2

With all the differing opinions..I wonder what if Zebralight incorporate bluetooth communication solely for the purpose of programming the levels. We can press the light whatever specificed number of clicks or "click and press" to activate the programming mode. Then using an app and/or through the PC, we can at minimum select whichever preset levels for any of the levels. Nicer is letting us set any levels we want (limited by the LED of course). Then click "program" and the light will program then shutoff bluetooth. Just have to make sure if someone really accidentally enters the bluetooth programming mode, a single click exits and turns off the light and doesn't program anything. This way we can all explicitly see whats programmed. And any "smart sorting" or rearranging of the levels can be handled through the app/program instead of additional complicity added to the light (which may introduce unintended bugs).

I don't want them to go as far as Eagletac with their bluetooth light with all the different modes and features they put there, with the realtime communications with the light. The Eagletac one sounds like so much potential for bugs. A lot of things sound nice in idea, but the actual implementation for ease of use and reliability is too complicated. I just want to activate bluetooth to program levels and shut off after its done and never use it until the next time we activate the bluetooth program mode.




eraursls1984 said:


> I would also love to use the lowest H2 as M1. I hate how the lower M2 is so close to L1 and the higher M2 is too close to M1. I think at least a mode in between the two M2, if not making the lowest H2 the new M1, could help.



For my SC5w, I usually just use the lowest H2, M1, L1 & L2 (lowest moonlight). H1 is mostly just for fun. It feels like M2 is a wasted mode for me for the levels I pick.
For my H600Fd, I find the flood makes the beam look dim so I usually only use H2 (lowest), L1 & L2. It feels like M1 & M2 is wasted to me for this light.

So I'm liking how the newer M1 is close to the lowest H2. But I still do see M2 not being used that much for my own preference.


----------



## KeepingItLight

All this UI talk is getting way off the rails now, so let me just say that I love the Bluetooth idea. Set any levels you like, and let the PC/tablet/smartphone remind your of you choices. 

Making no change may still be the best idea of all.


----------



## sidecross

KeepingItLight said:


> Making no change may still be the best idea of all.


+1

I use my flashlights for emergency use as well as everyday chores, and I do not like to complicate that issue with Bluetooth and another electronic tool to use. Sometimes K.I.S.S. is as good as it needs. :thumbsup:


----------



## tops2

sidecross said:


> +1
> 
> I use my flashlights for emergency use as well as everyday chores, and I do not like to complicate that issue with Bluetooth and another electronic tool to use. *Sometimes K.I.S.S. is as good as it needs.* :thumbsup:



K.I.S.S. in a Zebralight UI! :naughty::nana:

Sorry, couldn't help it! Just playing! lol


I prefer just keep it the same and not adding anything that can introduce any new bugs. Even the "updated" hardware in the Plus has me a little worried. But maybe that's the engineer in me talking...


----------



## sidecross

tops2 said:


> K.I.S.S. in a Zebralight UI! :naughty::nana:
> 
> Sorry, couldn't help it! Just playing! lol
> 
> 
> I prefer just keep it the same and not adding anything that can introduce any new bugs. Even the "updated" hardware in the Plus has me a little worried. But maybe that's the engineer in me talking...


+1

No problem, imagine a hunter-gather of 20,000 years ago trying to use a microwave oven, and imagine again a modern person living in a highly industrial society trying to start a fire without matches or manufactured fuel. :thumbsup:


----------



## eraursls1984

I wouldn't want Bluetooth on a Zebralight, at least not yet. I think the double click and hold to ramp up modes within a given subset would be the simplest change to make most of us happy. 

I do like the idea of change all modes with any of the modes available. I think if something this drastic should be in addition to the current programming, like 10 double clicks and hold. That way anyone who has used a Zebralight in the past several years could still use it the same as always, and only those wanting the advanced programming would have to worry about learning the new steps.


----------



## markr6

You have to admit though, it's a delicate balance of adding cool features and being able to sell them to first-time buyers. It already _looks_ complicated enough to new customers visiting the website and seeing all those instructions. It's simple as 1+1 for me now, but newcomers may be quickly turned away.


----------



## eraursls1984

markr6 said:


> You have to admit though, it's a delicate balance of adding cool features and being able to sell them to first-time buyers. It already _looks_ complicated enough to new customers visiting the website and seeing all those instructions. It's simple as 1+1 for me now, but newcomers may be quickly turned away.


I agree. I'd be happy if they added the double click and hold to ramp, and left it out of the documentation (like they originally did with the PID adjustment) and just told one of us in an email.


----------



## markr6

eraursls1984 said:


> I agree. I'd be happy if they added the double click and hold to ramp, and left it out of the documentation (like they originally did with the PID adjustment) and just told one of us in an email.



Good point. I'd be fine with that!


----------



## noboneshotdog

I'm sure there is probably a way for us to program the light already. We just need them to give us the keys to the kingdom. There are many programmable lights out the already, like Vihns drivervn. I'm sure with this new microprocessor it would make sense for programmability.


----------



## noboneshotdog

I still think ZL is holding back some info from us. Not so sure if they would call this light "PLUS" for one extra medium mode and better PID. "PLUS" to me should be something much more distinguishing. I think we'll have to wait and see if they have any September surprises for us....


----------



## sidecross

noboneshotdog said:


> I still think ZL is holding back some info from us. Not so sure if they would call this light "PLUS" for one extra medium mode and better PID. "PLUS" to me should be something much more distinguishing. I think we'll have to wait and see if they have any September surprises for us....


The 'Plus' is that instead of the XHP35 you have a XHP50.


----------



## noboneshotdog

sidecross said:


> The 'Plus' is that instead of the XHP35 you have a XHP50.



Hahahaha


----------



## sidecross

noboneshotdog said:


> Hahahaha


+1 :thumbsup:


----------



## TCY

From Zebralight:

_Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Very interesting discussions. First of all, we won't add anything new to what we have done in the SC600Fd III Plus, because it has went through all processes and approved for production. One important aspect of hardware upgrade in the SC600Fd is the doubling of memory space (we ran out of memory space with the introduction of the PID thermal regulation). We'll begin adding new UI features next year.

Out of several thousands of sub-levels in the SC600Fd, we picked 18 of them for a fully programmable UI in the future. While you see only 12 brightness levels in the SC600Fd, anyone with a good math or computer science background should be able to figure out the other 6. All six slots (let's still call them H1, H2, M1, M2, L1 and L2) can be programmed. Once programmed, you can switch between this new set/group and the default set/group (the one you are using now). Anyone unaware of the new set/group won't know they are there.

:shrug:_Thanks ZL for laughing at both my math and computer sciences skills

But seriously though, FULLY PROGRAMMABLE UI!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Wendee

"_While you see only 12 brightness levels in the SC600Fd, anyone with a good math or computer science background should be able to figure out the other 6."
"Anyone unaware of the new set/group won't know they are there"

_That sounds very cool but I don't have a "_good math or computer science background _" so no, I wouldn't be able to figure it out. I don't see anything about the new set/group on the Zebralight page for this light. 

I have an SC600 mkii and I have an H603c on the way. I wonder if there's a trick to be able to set/program more of the sub-levels, rather than having to pick one or two for each level. I doubt it but that would be very cool. 

If this is for the new "plus" model, why would they keep it a secret (it's not mentioned on their webpage)? I think it would be a very good selling point. :shrug:


----------



## noboneshotdog

Wendee said:


> "_While you see only 12 brightness levels in the SC600Fd, anyone with a good math or computer science background should be able to figure out the other 6."
> "Anyone unaware of the new set/group won't know they are there"
> 
> _That sounds very cool but I don't have a "_good math or computer science background _" so no, I wouldn't be able to figure it out. I don't see anything about the new set/group on the Zebralight page for this light. Is this on all of their lights, just the new "plus" models, or are they talking about future lights, I wonder.
> 
> I have an SC600 mkii and I have an H603c on the way. I wonder if there's a trick to be able to access all of the sub-levels, rather than having to pick one or two for each level. I doubt it but that would be very cool.
> 
> If this is for the new "plus" model, why would they keep it a secret (it's not mentioned on their webpage)? I think it would be a very good selling point. :shrug:



Yes, I think I have more questions now than answers. But I'm SUPER excited for someone to further explain!


----------



## noboneshotdog

I'm not a math genius but it sounds like each level will have two programmable levels. 

Like H1 you could chose either 1500 or 666 as the main H1 and then you could choose 429 or 270 as the H2 and so on for the other levels. Just guessing???


----------



## Wendee

noboneshotdog said:


> Yes, I think I have more questions now than answers. But I'm SUPER excited for someone to further explain!



Me too! I've been waiting for this light to come out. I thought I would wait before buying one (especially since I already have a ZL coming) but this new hidden set/group would be way too cool to 'not' buy. 

I wonder if anyone could figure it out just using the published data rather than waiting for the light to arrive. Then again, why is it a puzzle that has to be solved? Why doesn't Zebralight just tell people how to do it? Weird.


----------



## TCY

I think they are talking about a fully programmable UI they will do in the future? Dunno, they've always been a mysterious bunch:naughty:


----------



## TCY

kellyglanzer said:


> Go get em.
> 
> Just ordered. Sept 24th shipping date.
> 
> Date Ordered: 8/30/2016
> ZLSC600Fd Plus SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50 Floody Neutral White 18650 Flashlight $99.00
> 
> ------------------------
> LOL, oops. i guess everyone knows that already. Oh well. i just saw it so it was exciting to me. LOL



Welcome to the club:thumbsup:


----------



## TCY

BTW I also asked them about the approximate shipping date of the first Plus batch and was ignored. Hope it is not delayed.


----------



## fnsooner

We live on Zebralight time. You’ll get used to it.

I doubt they will get delayed. If I recall, they usually keep their release date promises. That doesn’t mean that all preorders will be shipped on the release date though. It is usually first come, first serve and some of the preorders will probably not ship out until a second batch is produced. 

I preordered the SC63w on January 1st at around 5 in the morning . Mine shipped on the release date but others who didn’t preorder until later in the day on New Years day didn’t get theirs shipped until a second batch was received. If I remember correctly, I think the OP of this thread ordered later that day and didn’t receive one for quite a while. By the way, where is jak? :candle:


----------



## Wendee

TCY said:


> I think they are talking about a fully programmable UI they will do in the future? Dunno, they've always been a mysterious bunch:naughty:



Yes, they mention a programmable UI in the future. I guess this made me think the light that's available now had a hidden set/group: "_While you see only 12 brightness levels in the SC600Fd, anyone with a good math or computer science backgrhound should be able to figure out *the other 6*._"

I just counted and there are 12 brightness levels on the light (as per ZL page), so are there 6 other levels that aren't mentioned? That's what it sounds like.:thinking:

Well, I guess I'll find out eventually.


----------



## KeepingItLight

How's this for a guess?

If we are liberal in our terminology, we can say that the current UI has 6 places to "program" a level.

H1 – 1 choice
H2 – 3 choices

M1 – 1 choice
M2 – 3 choices

L1 – 1 choice
L2 – 3 choices​
This gives you 12 levels. With 18 modes, there will be 6 new levels. Why not assign them to the groups that end in "1"?

H1 – 3 choices
H2 – 3 choices

M1 – 3 choices
M2 – 3 choices

L1 – 3 choices
L2 – 3 choices​ 
Now there are 18 modes. 

At present, you select Low, Medium, or High before entering program mode. It does not matter whether mode "1" or "2" is active when you do this. The level you select in program mode is always assigned to mode "2."

For example, suppose you select High, and then double-click (if necessary) to switch to H1. If you then reprogram High mode, the new level will be assigned to H2. It does not matter that H1 was active when you entered program mode.

One way to implement the 18 modes described above would be to respect mode "1" and "2" when you enter program mode. Under this scheme, if H1 were active, then H1 would be the mode that was reprogrammed.

Simple, plausible, and almost certainly wrong!


----------



## scs

With light off, enter Low, Medium, or High group as before.
Then dbl click 10x to enter programming mode for that group.
Then dbl click to cycle through available slots for programming (say 3 slots for High, 2 for Medium, and 3 for Low, or whatever)
At any slot, press and hold to ramp. Change your mind or made a mistake? Press and hold to ramp again.
Once you've found the output you like, either click once to save changes, exit programming mode, and turn light off, OR, dbl click to next slot and program it.
Repeat for other groups.
Remaining operation as before.


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> BTW I also asked them about the approximate shipping date of the first Plus batch and was ignored. Hope it is not delayed.



That doesn't surprise me, CPF has flooded them with so many emails about the light they probably can't keep up lol  From past experience with ZL I expect the first batch will ship to international customers on or around the 24th as advertised and US orders typically 5-7 days later after the shipment from china arrives.


----------



## TCY

Oh well I was kinda hoping that they say "We'll ship the first batch within a week yay!". Still more than 3 weeks of waiting ahead.

ZL says that the current generations of ZL lights have no firmware memory space left since PID was introduced so I don't think these have the hidden set as well. High chance the SC600Fd III Plus has it though.


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> That doesn't surprise me, CPF has flooded them with so many emails about the light they probably can't keep up lol  From past experience with ZL I expect the first batch will ship to international customers on or around the 24th as advertised and US orders typically 5-7 days later after the shipment from china arrives.



24th now seems like a millions years away!

BTW I asked the questions in the same ticket, so they probably chose to ignore it. Maybe they get hundreds of people asking for shipping date every day:duh2:


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> 24th now seems like a millions years away!
> 
> BTW I asked the questions in the same ticket, so they probably chose to ignore it. Maybe they get hundreds of people asking for shipping date every day:duh2:



Or maybe they don't want to spoil the fun and anticipation of waiting! Out of all the lights I've ever ordered this one has to be my most anticipated light. It also has my highest expectations too with knowing how good ZL is and it being 93-95 cri. Soon enough we will find out if it lives up to the hype.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Zebralight is like a fine woman, the kind you want to spend your life with. She will always have that sense of mystery that keeps you interested and wanting more. Keep up the good work ZL.


----------



## noboneshotdog

noboneshotdog said:


> Zebralight is like a fine woman, the kind you want to spend your life with. She will always have that sense of mystery that keeps you interested and wanting more. Keep up the good work ZL.



Maybe they can change thier motto to "like a fine woman". Hahaha


----------



## markr6

noboneshotdog said:


> I'm not a math genius but it sounds like each level will have two programmable levels.
> 
> Like H1 you could chose either 1500 or 666 as the main H1 and then you could choose 429 or 270 as the H2 and so on for the other levels. Just guessing???



That's what I want! I almost hope it doesn't happen, because I'll want to ditch all my old Zebralights for new ones!


----------



## oKtosiTe

eraursls1984 said:


> I would also love them to add a couple more modes for each subset.
> 
> Being able to program L1, M1, and H1 would be nice as well. You could just start off in the mode you want to change, then start the 6 double click to get into programming.


Since going from H1 to H2 also takes a double click, I think the timing on this might complicate things. It would be fairly easy to accidentally reprogram H1 instead of H2 or vice verse.
I don't mind having more programmability, but I also like knowing H1 is there when I need it...


----------



## tops2

TCY said:


> From Zebralight:
> 
> _Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Very interesting discussions. First of all, we won't add anything new to what we have done in the SC600Fd III Plus, because it has went through all processes and approved for production. One important aspect of hardware upgrade in the SC600Fd is the doubling of memory space (we ran out of memory space with the introduction of the PID thermal regulation). *We'll begin adding new UI features next year.*
> 
> Out of several thousands of sub-levels in the SC600Fd, *we picked 18 of them for a fully programmable UI in the future*. While you see only 12 brightness levels in the SC600Fd, anyone with a good math or computer science background should be able to figure out the other 6. All six slots (let's still call them H1, H2, M1, M2, L1 and L2) can be programmed. Once programmed, you can switch between this new set/group and the default set/group (the one you are using now). Anyone unaware of the new set/group won't know they are there.
> 
> :shrug:_Thanks ZL for laughing at both my math and computer sciences skills
> 
> But seriously though, FULLY PROGRAMMABLE UI!!:thumbsup:




Using Excel and some rounding estimates I got a list of 18 different levels Zebralight can pick from, but with 12 levels close to or matching what's stated for the Plus. But there's so much unknown and I'm assuming so much that its just a super wild guess.

I'm a patient guy..so the comment about having "fully programmable UI in the future" makes me want to put off any Zebralight purchase until these new ones comes out. In many ways, this customizing of the UI is more exciting than any other other that I can currently think of. But while it sounds awesome, it shoulds like this new grouping will sit along with the current UI. Boy I can't imagine how complicated the UI may become! Even though I'm comfortuabe with the current UI, the one part I didn't mess with (and didn't fully study) is the PID adjustment.

Boy, sometimes not having enough information actually helps more in coming to a decision. Having more info makes it harder to decide sometimes! "Ignorance is bliss!" lol!


----------



## geal

Hey all. Current owner of sc62w and new sc600 mkiii hi, both of which i love. Thinking about getting this new light because of nice flood and tint/cri. Not sure what frosted lens beams are like. Only possible comparison i can think of would be the TIR on olights which i happen to really like. Is this a reasonable comparison? Any info regarding beam profile/capabilities would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## sidecross

geal said:


> Hey all. Current owner of sc62w and new sc600 mkiii hi, both of which i love. Thinking about getting this new light because of nice flood and tint/cri. Not sure what frosted lens beams are like. Only possible comparison i can think of would be the TIR on olights which i happen to really like. Is this a reasonable comparison? Any info regarding beam profile/capabilities would be appreciated. Thanks!


Try some 'scotch tape' on the front lens of SC600 Mk3-Hi to get a feel for what it might be like.


----------



## tops2

geal said:


> Hey all. Current owner of sc62w and new sc600 mkiii hi, both of which i love. Thinking about getting this new light because of nice flood and tint/cri. Not sure what frosted lens beams are like. Only possible comparison i can think of would be the TIR on olights which i happen to really like. Is this a reasonable comparison? Any info regarding beam profile/capabilities would be appreciated. Thanks!



Or scotch tape over the SC62w also. I tried the scotch tape over my SC5w and liked it.

There's also a big comparison thread in the headlamp subforum with comparision between normal, "F" (floody version, similar to the Plus) and "flood" version. It was really helpful to me.


----------



## defbear

I've ordered one too


----------



## sam7

The specs claim 5000K, 1500lm, and 93-95CRI. Looking at Crees data sheets for the XHP50, I don't see a product that meets those specs at the same time. What am I missing? 

See, for instance: http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...d-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds-XHP50.pdf


----------



## wolfgaze

So who among you ordering this light has a nice camera and good photography skills and will be able to post us some high quality beamshots? : )

I'm anxious to see what the beam looks like outdoors in the M1 mode... That would be what I would use most often...


----------



## noboneshotdog

I just reread the email from ZL on page 14 and this is what I came up with:

There will actually be two separate batches of levels. One batch will be the levels that are written out on the ZL website. A totally different batch will consist of H1 H2, M1 M2, and L1 L2 that will be fully programmed by the user with 18 levels to choose from. 

You can either use the ZL issued levels as written on thier website OR the 18 user selected fully programable levels. Thus, it will be an either/or grouping. You choose the exact levels you desire out of the 18 to choose from, or the ZL issued grouping. 

Does anybody else read it this way? 

I still don't know the six new levels. This will have to be left to the mathematicians and computer whizzes.


----------



## Wendee

noboneshotdog said:


> I just reread the email from ZL on page 14 and this is what I came up with:
> 
> There will actually be two separate batches of levels. One batch will be the levels that are written out on the ZL website. A totally different batch will consist of H1 H2, M1 M2, and L1 L2 that will be fully programmed by the user with 18 levels to choose from.
> 
> You can either use the ZL issued levels as written on thier website OR the 18 user selected fully programable levels. Thus, it will be an either/or grouping. You choose the exact levels you desire out of the 18 to choose from, or the ZL issued grouping.
> 
> Does anybody else read it this way?
> 
> I still don't know the six new levels. This will have to be left to the mathematicians and computer whizzes.



Yep! That sounds right! That would be awesome! 

I read it that way from what they wrote: 
"_All six slots (let's still call them H1, H2, M1, M2, L1 and L2) can be programmed. Once programmed, you can switch between this new set/group and the default set/group (the one you are using now)."_

I would have set #1 (default ZL H1, M1, L1, as it is now) plus my programmed sub-levels as my "outdoor" set (since H1 & H2 are high output). Set #2 (the new feature) I would program all six levels to the ones used most indoors (including two sub-lumen levels). This would be the perfect flashlight.

The SC600Fd Plus sounds *so great *and I would _love_ to have one but now I'm super excited about the programmable UI light that will come out too (I think they said next year?). I don't know if I can justify buying both lights. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## noboneshotdog

The SC600FD PLUS IS THE PROGRAMMABLE LIGHT! It's the new UI that comes out in the future.

They said the 18 levels are PART OF THE FD PLUS. :twothumbs


----------



## Wendee

noboneshotdog said:


> The SC600FD PLUS IS THE PROGRAMMABLE LIGHT! It's the new UI that comes out in the future.
> 
> They said the 18 levels are PART OF THE FD PLUS. :twothumbs



What, what?? Are you serious? I thought that when I first read the post with the email but then I thought I was _totally wrong_. When was that email sent from Zebralight? Before the Sc600Fd plus was released? So this light *is *the one they were referring to? 

Why didn't they advertise the fact that it has a second programmable set of output levels? Sooooo many people would buy this light just for that feature alone. 

My ZL H603c is on it's way in the mail so I wasn't going to buy another ZL light for a while but forget that! If the 600Fd Plus has the programmable UI (and high CRI and 1500 lumens!), I'm buying one for sure! :rock:I heard that you can never have too many ZL, so that's how I'll justify it to hubby. 

I want to confirm with ZL though, just to be sure. I find it strange that they wouldn't advertise it. Very strange.


----------



## AussieRanga

noboneshotdog said:


> The SC600FD PLUS IS THE PROGRAMMABLE LIGHT! It's the new UI that comes out in the future.
> 
> They said the 18 levels are PART OF THE FD PLUS. :twothumbs



They also said that the SC600Fd PLUS will not have a different UI as it has been approved for production as-is and that they will look at UI changes NEXT YEAR...

So, it either has it or it doesn't; they wont tell us either way though...


----------



## noboneshotdog

AussieRanga said:


> They also said that the SC600Fd PLUS will not have a different UI as it has been approved for production as-is and that they will look at UI changes NEXT YEAR...
> 
> So, it either has it or it doesn't; they wont tell us either way though...



I think ZL was specifically refering to some of the suggestions we had been making regarding UI. 

They were not going to make any NEW changes that WE WERE SUGGESTING. But that what had already been pre-approved will be in the new FD PLUS. 

The approvals include 18 new levels. Though only 12 of them show on thier web page. 


They will likely have a supplementary mode description that will be added to there web page before the 24th.

Thats the way I see it. But obviously things get lost in translation when it comes to emails and forums alike.


----------



## noboneshotdog

I just sent ZL an email asking if the programmability stated on page 14 was for the FD PLUS or for a future light. I will report back if I receive an answer.


----------



## samgab

I'm just getting more and more happy that I pre-ordered this baby. On a side note, I just got notification from ZL that they've shipped the other ZL I ordered the other day, the *SC5Fd High CRI floody* direct from China, so I look forward to getting accustomed to that prior to the long anticipated arrival of the *SC600Fd III PLUS - XHP50* (That's a mouthful!) I'm quite happy with the other XHP50 light I have, the Nitecore EC4S XHP50, but I don't know what the CRI or colour temp is on that one. It will be interesting to compare the two, even though I realise they're very different beasts, and it'll be apples/oranges.


----------



## oKtosiTe

I just hope this isn't No Man's Sky all over again. :laughing:


----------



## AussieRanga

TCY said:


> From Zebralight:
> 
> _Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Very interesting discussions. First of all, we won't add anything new to what we have done in the SC600Fd III Plus, because it has went through all processes and approved for production. One important aspect of hardware upgrade in the SC600Fd is the doubling of memory space (we ran out of memory space with the introduction of the PID thermal regulation). We'll begin adding new UI features next year.
> 
> Out of several thousands of sub-levels in the SC600Fd, we picked 18 of them for a fully programmable UI in the future. While you see only 12 brightness levels in the SC600Fd, anyone with a good math or computer science background should be able to figure out the other 6. All six slots (let's still call them H1, H2, M1, M2, L1 and L2) can be programmed. Once programmed, you can switch between this new set/group and the default set/group (the one you are using now). Anyone unaware of the new set/group won't know they are there.
> 
> :shrug:_Thanks ZL for laughing at both my math and computer sciences skills
> 
> But seriously though, FULLY PROGRAMMABLE UI!!:thumbsup:





noboneshotdog said:


> I just sent ZL an email asking if the programmability stated on page 14 was for the FD PLUS or for a future light. I will report back if I receive an answer.



The way I read it, the SC600Fd+ has a hadware upgrade but not software. They pretty much say they have picked 18 levels for use in a future UI change so I doubt it will be an option for this light (unless they're hiding it from the public like they did for a while with PID control)... I hope it does for everyones sakes though!


----------



## TCY

Just got this in my mail.






I thought they were going to come up with some in-depth explanation of the light with the "A cure for tint snobbery" title like when they announced the SC5Fd&c.


----------



## mico

Now the F(no d) is also on the spreadsheet, does anyone expect them to bring out an Fw? Would you expect it to be dimmer?

Actually by the time that might be available they might be announcing the new UI models...


----------



## noboneshotdog

Here is the skinny RE lumen levels and programmability from ZL. 

Subject: SC600FD PLUS PROGRAMMABILITY?

You'll see only 12 levels in the SC600Fd III Plus. The other 6 are 1011, 166, 59, 5.6, 1.51 and 0.08Lm but you'll not be able to access them. Fully programmable UI will be implemented next year.

Sincerely,

ZebraLight, Inc.


----------



## markr6

noboneshotdog said:


> Here is the skinny RE lumen levels and programmability from ZL.
> 
> Subject: SC600FD PLUS PROGRAMMABILITY?
> 
> You'll see only 12 levels in the SC600Fd III Plus. The other 6 are 1011, 166, 59, 5.6, 1.51 and 0.08Lm but you'll not be able to access them. Fully programmable UI will be implemented next year.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.



Dammit!! So the modes will be there, but ZL is not sharing how to do it 

They made it YEARS without sharing the programmable PID instructions, so I guess they won't crack earlier on this one.

The *166lm *is really the only one I'm interested in.


----------



## noboneshotdog

markr6 said:


> Dammit!! So the modes will be there, but ZL is not sharing how to do it
> 
> They made it YEARS without sharing the programmable PID instructions, so I guess they won't crack earlier on this one.
> 
> The *166lm *is really the only one I'm interested in.



Do you think we will have to buy a whole new light for programmability, or just wait till they release the programming instructions??? Hmmmmm

My guess is another new light. Just don't want to have to buy doubles of the same light within months of purchase.


----------



## blackbalsam

Just preordered one of these.


----------



## markr6

noboneshotdog said:


> Do you think we will have to buy a whole new light for programmability, or just wait till they release the programming instructions??? Hmmmmm
> 
> My guess is another new light. Just don't want to have to buy doubles of the same light within months of purchase.



Reading the response above mine, it sounds like it's in this one. "The other 6 are 1011, 166, 59, 5.6, 1.51 and 0.08Lm but you'll not be able to access them." But it's not 100% clear they way they phrase it with the rest.


----------



## TCY

Oh well, either way the Plus will be a treat. Anxiously waiting


----------



## TCY

Wild guess: turn off at H1, turn on at L1, press & hold to cycle thru low, mid, high for 10 times, stop at H1, switch to H2, back to H1, again to L1, LED flashes twice, tada now you're at the secret set:twothumbs


----------



## markr6

3 weeks to go...absolute torture! Why Zebralight...why?!?!?!


----------



## TA_ls1

This is soooo tempting. I'm trying to justify it. I have the SC600 MKIII HI and both the cool and neutral SC62s. If I get this I likely won't have a use for the SC62s as I'd use the 600fd plus for closeup and the MKIII HI for throw. They just sent me their newsletter as a reminder to keep tempting me lol.


----------



## tops2

Maybe like most electronics, there's usually hidden modes ("test modes") for the engineers/designers to use to test and debug, and sometimes to make minor changes. Maybe the fully programmable UI is programmed but not debugged to Zebralight's standard to its hidden from the public. Or maybe its really not in there. But there's no way to tell unless someone's a Zebralight engineer. Lol..fun to speculate though!



TA_ls1 said:


> This is soooo tempting. I'm trying to justify it. I have the SC600 MKIII HI and both the cool and neutral SC62s. If I get this I likely won't have a use for the SC62s as I'd use the 600fd plus for closeup and the MKIII HI for throw. They just sent me their newsletter as a reminder to keep tempting me lol.



I'm kinda in a different position. I bought the H600Fd a few weeks ago (couldn't resist and wanted to try a headlamp). In some ways, the Plus feels redundant in my opinion as it feels like a (slight) improvement to the H600Fd. But the HI version for me is a totally different class and should complement the H600Fd. And I can wait till next year for the hopefully new UI + high CRI version... But the expectations and hype for this light to me is unreal and hard to resist!


----------



## roger-roger

tops2 said:


> I'm kinda in a different position. I bought the H600Fd a few weeks ago (couldn't resist and wanted to try a headlamp). In some ways, the Plus feels redundant in my opinion as it feels like a (slight) improvement to the H600Fd. But the HI version for me is a totally different class and should complement the H600Fd. And I can wait till next year for the hopefully new UI + high CRI version... But the expectations and hype for this light to me is unreal and hard to resist!




I'm going to guess the PLUS' substantially more powerful beam, 1500 compared to 870 lu, will put it in a different class than the H600Fd. This hopefully and especially in terms of potential throw. It would be fantastic if the PLUS turns out to be a floody throwy light.


----------



## sam7

How are these spec possible? I don't see an XHP50 bin that can do the claimed K/lm/CRI simultaneously. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...d-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds-XHP50.pdf


TCY said:


> Just got this in my mail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they were going to come up with some in-depth explanation of the light with the "A cure for tint snobbery" title like when they announced the SC5Fd&c.


----------



## AussieRanga

sam7 said:


> How are these spec possible? I don't see an XHP50 bin that can do the claimed K/lm/CRI simultaneously. http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...d-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/ds-XHP50.pdf



Do you comprehend the datasheet? You don't expect to find exact numbers that ZL are using, right? 

It took me a whole 5 seconds to scroll down to page 3 and see an emitter that is 5000K with MINIMUM CRI of 90 and a MINIMUM output of near 1000L (@85°C) for a H2 grouped emitter. That is from supplying 6V to the emitter with a current of 1400mA which is around 8.5W. Zebralight say their light can draw up to 8A from a cell so I would (obviously) assume it is driven harder than what Cree's datasheet numbers are based on thus leading to higher output than you see.

..so no it is not an impossible combination the folks at ZL have simply plucked out of thin air..


----------



## StandardBattery

It is possible that the best CRI and max lumens don't align though. Still can't wait to see this light because the Mk III HI is already really amazing.


----------



## tops2

roger-roger said:


> I'm going to guess the PLUS' substantially more powerful beam, 1500 compared to 870 lu, will put it in a different class than the H600Fd. *This hopefully and especially in terms of potential throw*. It would be fantastic if the PLUS turns out to be a floody throwy light.



That's my hope too. But I'm not expecting much more throw though..just hopefully far enough.

Granted its totally different light/optics, but from my (bad) memory, my Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XHP50 at the highest level (the updated spec ~1800 lumens on Armytek's website) doesn't throw that much further than my H600Fd in my opinion. Maybe I need to go out at night again and try again. But I always feel weird going to the park after dark to test out my lights on turbo/high modes.


----------



## KeepingItLight

tops2 said:


> I always feel weird going to the park after dark to test out my lights on turbo/high modes.



Well, you could always try going to the park during the daytime :ironic:

Realistically, I could see taking a tub full of flashlights (rather than, say, 1 or 2), and opening the CPF web site on your smartphone. That way, you could tell any interested police officers that you're just doing a flashlight comparison for CPF!

Around here, unfortunately, a lot of the parks close at sunset.


----------



## TCY

ZL says they are going to publish the runtimes in 2-3 days.:thumbsup:


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> ZL says they are going to publish the runtimes in 2-3 days.:thumbsup:



Thanks for the heads up! You know you have it bad when you preorder a $100 flashlight with no idea what the runtimes are like lol. I can't wait for these to start shipping!


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> Thanks for the heads up! You know you have it bad when you preorder a $100 flashlight with no idea what the runtimes are like lol. I can't wait for these to start shipping!



ZL confirmed that they start shipping on the 24th, and US orders one week after that.

Only 3 weeks left:naughty:


----------



## Swede74

TCY said:


> ZL says they are going to publish the runtimes in 2-3 days.:thumbsup:



Time's... no, let me start over: Times're up 


Light Output (runtimes)

High: H1 *1500* Lm (PID, approx. 2.3 hr) or H2 *666* Lm (PID, approx. 2.7 hrs) / *429* Lm (PID, approx. 2.9 hrs) / *270* Lm (4.1 hrs) 
Medium: M1 *100* Lm (12.5 hrs) or M2 *34 *Lm (36 hrs) / *19* Lm (2.6 days) / *10.4* Lm (4.6 days) 
Low: L1 2*.9 *Lm (15.5 days) or L2 *0.76* Lm (1.9 months) / *0.37 *Lm (2.7 months) / *0.18 *Lm (4 months) 
Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1 
 Light output are ANSI out the front (OTF) values. Runtimes tested (and parasitic drain estimated) using Sanyo NCR18650GA batteries. Runtimes of the three PID controlled levels (1500, 666 and 429 Lumen) vary greatly with ambient temperature and air circulation. 

SC600Fd Mk III plus runtimes


----------



## TCY

Swede74 said:


> Time's... no, let me start over: Times're up
> 
> 
> Light Output (runtimes)
> 
> High: H1 *1500* Lm (PID, approx. 2.3 hr) or H2 *666* Lm (PID, approx. 2.7 hrs) / *429* Lm (PID, approx. 2.9 hrs) / *270* Lm (4.1 hrs)
> Medium: M1 *100* Lm (12.5 hrs) or M2 *34 *Lm (36 hrs) / *19* Lm (2.6 days) / *10.4* Lm (4.6 days)
> Low: L1 2*.9 *Lm (15.5 days) or L2 *0.76* Lm (1.9 months) / *0.37 *Lm (2.7 months) / *0.18 *Lm (4 months)
> Beacon Strobe Mode: 0.2Hz Beacon at Low / 0.2Hz Beacon at H1 / 4Hz Strobe at H1 / 19Hz Strobe at H1
> Light output are ANSI out the front (OTF) values. Runtimes tested (and parasitic drain estimated) using Sanyo NCR18650GA batteries. Runtimes of the three PID controlled levels (1500, 666 and 429 Lumen) vary greatly with ambient temperature and air circulation.
> 
> SC600Fd Mk III plus runtimes



Thanks for the update, ZL finally beats their schedule this one time!

Compared to HI, runtimes for H2 levels are almost 50% lower. (34lm for 36 hrs vs. 28lm for 73 hrs on HI, 10.4lm for 4.6 days vs. 10lm for 8 days on HI)

Surprisingly runtime for the lowest low (0.18) is very impressive, 4 months sounds too good to be ture when compared to HI's mere 0.05lm at 5.1 months. L1 looks fine, not a whole lot of efficiency drop. 

And I assume that they are using VERY aggressive PID on H1 to get that 2.3 hrs runtime. Or efficiency is simply out of this world? I have to ask them. H2 levels' runtime seem on par with HI's. 

Compared to Armytek Wizard Pro v3, Plus's runtime seems A LOT better on H1, but a bit inferior on M2 (34lm for 36 hrs vs. 28lm for 50hrs on Wizard) and lowest low. (0.18 for 4months/122 days vs. 0.14 for 200 days on Wizard)

I was kinda expecting an efficiency drop of ~10-20% across the board because of the high CRI, and was surprised that only medium levels took a major hit. Dunno if I like this, I use H1 on my SC62W a lot. 2.3 hours with PID on H1 is a pleasant surprise though.

Bottom line: not exactly your SHTF zombie apocalypse survival flashlight with ultra long runtimes. For your normal, high CRI appreciated daily usage? Totally fine.


----------



## twistedraven

It wouldn't surprise me if the XHP-50 was the slightly more efficient LED, but having high cri will lose quite a bit of efficiency as well.

If only Zebralight found a lens design that would allow this light to be used without the diffuser.


----------



## mico

Whilst pleased that I can finally switch between ~4hr runtime and ~12hr runtime without having to reprogram (having effectively brought the lowest H2 down to M1), I am hoping that *M2 **34 Lm (36 hrs) *has a typo... somewhere.

I guess programmed with 1500/270/100/19/2.9/0.18 it might do just fine though, and the runtimes are reasonable.


----------



## Strintguy

Only thing I'm questioning is the lack of the very-useful lumen range from 34-100?


----------



## lampeDépêche

I think you learn a lot about the PID effect by figuring out the basic efficiency of the emitter-battery combination, and then looking at the times for the highest outputs. 

First, run some very rough numbers for the mid-range outputs x times, to see how many lumen-hours this emitter and battery combo is generally capable of:

100 x 12.5 = 1250 lumen-hours
34 x 36 = 1224 lumen-hours
19 x 2.6 days x 24 hrs = 1185 lumen-hours
10.4 x 4.6 days x 24 hrs = 1148

There will be some drop-off in efficiency on the low-end and the high-end, but the basic picture is pretty clear: this emitter-battery combo puts out around 1200 lumen-hours in its most efficient band.

Use that figure to calculate a maximum output at each of the high outputs:

1200 lumen-hours/ 1500 lumens = 0.8 hrs
1200 lumen-hours/ 666 lumens = 1.8 hrs
1200 lumen-hours/ 429 lumens = 2.8 hrs
1200 lumen-hours/ 270 lumens = 4.4 hrs

What that tells me is that in the 270 and 429 settings, you really will get that output throughout nearly all of the advertised run-time, without the output being reduced by PID.

But for the top two outputs (i.e. 1500 and 666), most of the advertised run-time is going to be a much lower levels. PID will kick in and throttle it down to something in the 400s or so for the vast majority of the run-time. 



High: H1 *1500* Lm (PID, approx. 2.3 hr) or H2 *666* Lm (PID, approx. 2.7 hrs) / *429* Lm (PID, approx. 2.9 hrs) / *270* Lm (4.1 hrs)

That's why the times for 1500 and 666 don't look that much shorter than the times for 429: they are going to be putting out 429 (more or less) for most of the period, and putting out their top lumens only briefly at the beginning.


----------



## snowlover91

Keep in mind the PID will be highly variable and environment dependent. When used in a cold environment or with strong air circulation (wind for example) it will likely stay at or near the max output and significantly reduce runtime while staying at the max brightness. My SC63w indoors on H1 will throttle in about 30-45 seconds but if I take it outdoors on a cool/cold or windy day it stays at max brightness for several minutes without heating up.


----------



## lampeDépêche

snowlover91 said:


> Keep in mind the PID will be highly variable and environment dependent....



Totally agree, snowlover91. It will also change if you turn on the light for brief-ish periods and then turn it off again. If you used it on H1 for one-minute stretches, separated by periods long enough for it to fully cool, then you would get the full 1500 output the whole time you used it (because the PID would never kick in). 
So you wouldn't get 2.3 hours worth of one-minute bursts, but you'd probably get 40-45 minutes worth of them. (48 minutes by my back-of-the-envelope calculations above, but the efficiency is probably dropping off a bit towards the upper end of the output).


----------



## lampeDépêche

So what I really want to do?

Get one of these, pop out the frosted lens, and put in a clear lens.

Sure, the beam will have artifacts, and be ugly on white walls. 

But in the field? In the forest? In the dark? Will it really be that bad? That noticeable? 

No way to know without trying. (Especially because one person's "no way!" is another person's "no big deal.")

What we *do* know is that the throw will go a *lot* higher, and the lumens will hop up a bit too.

People have measured the SC600 Mk III Hi at around 19k lux, at the top lumen of 1100 or so. This would probably get up over 25k with a clear lens.

Any of you that have a lot of money and a spare clear lens--could you get on that for me? Thx!


----------



## StandardBattery

lampeDépêche said:


> So what I really want to do?
> 
> Get one of these, pop out the frosted lens, and put in a clear lens.
> 
> Sure, the beam will have artifacts, and be ugly on white walls.
> 
> But in the field? In the forest? In the dark? Will it really be that bad? That noticeable?
> 
> No way to know without trying. (Especially because one person's "no way!" is another person's "no big deal.")
> 
> What we *do* know is that the throw will go a *lot* higher, and the lumens will hop up a bit too.
> 
> People have measured the SC600 Mk III Hi at around 19k lux, at the top lumen of 1100 or so. This would probably get up over 25k with a clear lens.
> 
> Any of you that have a lot of money and a spare clear lens--could you get on that for me? Thx!


I'm not so sure. It may not be able to even make 25K at all especially with a Zebralight reflector. The XHP50 is not available in HI configuration and is a multi LED on a single die so it's going to be more floody from the beginning no matter what. So I think it would take more than replacing the frosted lens to make it a thrower capable of 25K cd.


----------



## roger-roger

lampeDépêche said:


> So what I really want to do?
> 
> Get one of these, pop out the frosted lens, and put in a clear lens.
> 
> Sure, the beam will have artifacts, and be ugly on white walls.
> 
> But in the field? In the forest? In the dark? Will it really be that bad? That noticeable?
> 
> No way to know without trying. (Especially because one person's "no way!" is another person's "no big deal.")
> 
> What we *do* know is that the throw will go a *lot* higher, and the lumens will hop up a bit too.
> 
> People have measured the SC600 Mk III Hi at around 19k lux, at the top lumen of 1100 or so. This would probably get up over 25k with a clear lens.
> 
> Any of you that have a lot of money and a spare clear lens--could you get on that for me? Thx!





Cool project. Aren't the artifacts of a clear lensed XHP 50 flashlight already a known factor, what with the Olight 50 and Fenix TK35UE etc? The high CRI feature of the Plus attracts an audience with higher standards in mind, so there's that.


----------



## TCY

StandardBattery said:


> I'm not so sure. It may not be able to even make 25K at all especially with a Zebralight reflector. The XHP50 is not available in HI configuration and is a multi LED on a single die so it's going to be more floody from the beginning no matter what. So I think it would take more than replacing the frosted lens to make it a thrower capable of 25K cd.



This.


----------



## TCY

So I asked ZL on runtimes and here's the reply:

_
We are still looking at the areas (XHP50, higher CRI, or new driver) that may contribute to the somewhat different behavior of the SC600Fd III Plus in terms of efficiency. No conclusions yet. The runtimes are taken from a half dozen pre-production samples, and may get updated when the production samples are available (but I doubt the results will change a lot).

_A slight chance of having better runtimes:thumbsup:


----------



## snowlover91

I imagine the reduced runtimes are probably a combination of the three things mentioned above. Certainly the new driver will need some tweaks done to further improve efficiency. The higher CRI likely has a big part in it as well. The runtimes as listed will be fine for me though and worth the tradeoff to have the high cri. Thanks for posting that info! ZL is probably sick of receiving emails from us lol!


----------



## mico

TCY said:


> So I asked ZL on runtimes and here's the reply:
> 
> _
> We are still looking at the areas (XHP50, higher CRI, or new driver) that may contribute to the somewhat different behavior of the SC600Fd III Plus in terms of efficiency. No conclusions yet. The runtimes are taken from a half dozen pre-production samples, and may get updated when the production samples are available (but I doubt the results will change a lot).
> 
> _A slight chance of having better runtimes:thumbsup:


An unexpected ray of hope.


----------



## lampeDépêche

StandardBattery said:


> I'm not so sure. It may not be able to even make 25K at all especially with a Zebralight reflector. The XHP50 is not available in HI configuration and is a multi LED on a single die so it's going to be more floody from the beginning no matter what. So I think it would take more than replacing the frosted lens to make it a thrower capable of 25K cd.



You may be right, but remember that it is already measuring 19k with a frosted lens out front. So 25k is not that much of an increase.

And that 19k already takes account of the ZL reflector, the multi-die LED, and the other factors you are worried about. Those are already diminishing the throw in the floody version, and yet it is still putting out 19k. So is a 25% improvement with a clear lens really so far out of reach? 

Put this differently: if it *does* do 25k with a clear lens, and 19k with a frosted lens, then the penalty for a frosted lens is about a 20% reduction in throw. I would have thought that the general penalty on moving from clear to frosted was a *greater* than 20% reduction in throw. 

If someone knows the lux numbers for the other ZL models (e.g. H52 vs H52F; H600 vs. H600F), then we can quickly see how much of a percentage lux-penalty the floody front lens imposes. And then that should carry over to this model with fair accuracy.


----------



## markr6

I would also be willing to have _some_ beam artifacts to allow for more throw. Of course I say this without even seeing the light. But even as a picky tint/beam snob, I still think a little "cross" or whatever shows up would be acceptable. I think my EC4S had that...on a perfectly white wall while squinting my eyes.

September is going by fast already! This wait isn't so bad after all.

Runtimes look OK to me. This isn't going to be my backpacking squeeze-every-ounce-of-battery light. I'll be recharging around 50-70% as usual, so I don't really need 50hours of runtime.


----------



## TCY

HI uses clear lens. No way it can do 19K with frosted lens.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Wooops! I just realized that I have been talking nonsense, and I apologize.

The 19k figure is one I read for the HI, over on the HI thread--and then I mistakenly thought it was the figure for the Plus with the Frosted Lens.

Now I realize--we don't know the figure for the Plus, because no one has their hands on one yet!!

Okay--forget all that stuff I said. It was totally based on my reading some reports about one light, and thinking they applied to a different light.

Sorry about that.


----------



## TCY

markr6 said:


> I would also be willing to have _some_ beam artifacts to allow for more throw. Of course I say this without even seeing the light. But even as a picky tint/beam snob, I still think a little "cross" or whatever shows up would be acceptable. I think my EC4S had that...on a perfectly white wall while squinting my eyes.
> 
> September is going by fast already! This wait isn't so bad after all.
> 
> Runtimes look OK to me. This isn't going to be my backpacking squeeze-every-ounce-of-battery light. I'll be recharging around 50-70% as usual, so I don't really need 50hours of runtime.



Only 3.5 weeks till I get mine:devil:


----------



## markr6

TCY said:


> Only 3.5 weeks till I get mine:devil:



I'm planning on another early arrival for mine. Fingers crossed!


----------



## TCY

markr6 said:


> I'm planning on another early arrival for mine. Fingers crossed!



So ZL used to say estimated shipping date to be xxx but you get yours earlier than that? Ok fingers crossed too lol!


----------



## markr6

TCY said:


> So ZL used to say estimated shipping date to be xxx but you get yours earlier than that? Ok fingers crossed too lol!



It happened once before, or twice? I don't remember, but it was a pleasant surprise!


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> So ZL used to say estimated shipping date to be xxx but you get yours earlier than that? Ok fingers crossed too lol!



Mark just got his early because he kept bugging ZL and they wanted him quiet hahaha.


----------



## TCY

Alright let's go bug them:devil:


----------



## scs

Wow! The Plus's runtimes are a huge letdown compared to the regular MK3. Price to pay for high CRI?


----------



## KeepingItLight

scs said:


> Wow! The Plus's runtimes are a huge letdown compared to the regular MK3. Price to pay for high CRI?




Don't forget, the regular *ZebraLight SC600w Mk. III* uses the Cree XHP35 emitter. 

The *ZebraLight SC600Fd Mk. III Plus* uses the Cree XHP50.

I don't know how much of a difference that makes, but it may be a factor.


----------



## roger-roger

scs said:


> Wow! The Plus's runtimes are a huge letdown compared to the regular MK3. Price to pay for high CRI?




Not sure of the issue exactly, so I'm apparently missing something on runtimes, or looking at the wrong column? 

- SC600w MK3: H1 @ 1126 lm is listed at 2.2hr. 
- SC600Fd MK3 Plus: H1 @ 1500 lm is listed at 2.3 hr.



Looking at the lm ratings of some of ZL headlamps, I get the impression ZL in their light intensity ratings, accounts for the loss created by the frosted lens. Is this correct?

http://www.zebralight.com/H52Fw-AA-Floody-Headlamp-Neutral-White_p_121.html

http://www.zebralight.com/H52w-AA-Headlamp-Neutral-White_p_120.html


----------



## twistedraven

Yes, their output numbers are ansi standard, so out of the front and after 30 seconds.


----------



## scs

KeepingItLight said:


> Don't forget, the regular *ZebraLight SC600w Mk. III* uses the Cree XHP35 emitter.
> 
> The *ZebraLight SC600Fd Mk. III Plus* uses the Cree XHP50.
> 
> I don't know how much of a difference that makes, but it may be a factor.



Isn't the 50 at least as efficient if not more efficient than the 35?
I wonder whether the 50 is the 6v version.
Wouldn't a boost driver be able to drive a 6v 50 more efficiently than a 12v 35?


----------



## scs

roger-roger said:


> Not sure of the issue exactly, so I'm apparently missing something on runtimes, or looking at the wrong column?
> 
> - SC600w MK3: H1 @ 1126 lm is listed at 2.2hr.
> - SC600Fd MK3 Plus: H1 @ 1500 lm is listed at 2.3 hr.
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at the lm ratings of some of ZL headlamps, I get the impression ZL in their light intensity ratings, accounts for the loss created by the frosted lens. Is this correct?
> 
> http://www.zebralight.com/H52Fw-AA-Floody-Headlamp-Neutral-White_p_121.html
> 
> http://www.zebralight.com/H52w-AA-Headlamp-Neutral-White_p_120.html



I think it's difficult to compare the PID controlled levels, as it's unknown how the output changes throughout the runtimes.

Take a look at the sub 100 lumen modes.

Good point about the frosted lens reducing output though.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Run times look ok to me. I typically run my ZLs at the higher outputs anyways and those are in line with past models. :twothumbs


----------



## outdoorguy82

noboneshotdog said:


> Zebralight is like a fine woman, the kind you want to spend your life with. She will always have that sense of mystery that keeps you interested and wanting more. Keep up the good work ZL.



This comment made me lol...I love Zebralights and will order another one soon but I have to recover from my recent Olight M3XS-UT Javelot purchase first lol. Looking forward to this light arriving in the mail in the next 2 days!!!


----------



## KeepingItLight

scs said:


> Isn't the 50 at least as efficient if not more efficient than the 35?
> I wonder whether the 50 is the 6v version.
> Wouldn't a boost driver be able to drive a 6v 50 more efficiently than a 12v 35?



I don't know the answers to the first two questions. 

As to the third, my general understanding is, yes, that boost drivers are more efficient when the boost is smaller. In theory, therefore, boosting a 4.2 volt Li-ion battery up to 12 volts should be less efficient that boosting it to 6 volts.


----------



## roger-roger

scs said:


> I think it's difficult to compare the PID controlled levels, as it's unknown how the output changes throughout the runtimes.
> 
> Take a look at the sub 100 lumen modes.
> 
> Good point about the frosted lens reducing output though.



I see what you mean. Although as mentioned, different emitter and a system still awaiting final optimization

- SC600w MK3: M2b - 10lm - 8 days
- SC600Fd MK3 Plus: M2c - 10.4lm - 4.6 days


----------



## psychbeat

Wait, is anyone surprised that a larger HiCRI emitter behind a frosted lens is less efficient ?


----------



## snowlover91

scs said:


> Isn't the 50 at least as efficient if not more efficient than the 35?
> I wonder whether the 50 is the 6v version.
> Wouldn't a boost driver be able to drive a 6v 50 more efficiently than a 12v 35?



Actually the XHP 35 is more efficient. According to Cree's data sheet the XHP 35 has a max efficiency of 172 lm/W while the XHP 50 is 149 lm/W. Add the frosted lens and high cri then the results aren't surprising. Also the new driver may need further tweaking to reach optimal performance too. My guess is the less efficient emitter, higher cri and frosted lens are creating most of the drop in runtime.


----------



## markr6

psychbeat said:


> Wait, is anyone surprised that a larger HiCRI emitter behind a frosted lens is less efficient ?





snowlover91 said:


> Actually the XHP 35 is more efficient. According to Cree's data sheet the XHP 35 has a max efficiency of 172 lm/W while the XHP 50 is 149 lm/W. Add the frosted lens and high cri then the results aren't surprising. Also the new driver may need further tweaking to reach optimal performance too. My guess is the less efficient emitter, higher cri and frosted lens are creating most of the drop in runtime.



Exactly. I think we all knew this wasn't going to be a super-efficient do-it-all light. It's a unique torch with a cherry-picked emitter to produce a tint so pleasing not even I can complain. At least that's what it sounds like 

I'm 99% sure my first impression will be "eeeeh, nice tint" and it will end there. With not even a hint of throw or a hotspot, I'm sure the high CRI won't even make up for it. But I still bought one and it's worth a try. High CRI, high output, great UI in a small package will make for a nice light for certain uses.


----------



## JStraus

So I have preordered, but keep waffling on whether or not to keep the order or cancel.

I see a bunch of people saying that the "f" beam profile makes it less useful.

Someone help convince me to keep the preorder!

I have H600w MKII. I think this light is great I don't find it too spotty as its spill is good. To me it puts good light right where I'm looking and has some reach. (Like when camping and gathering wood, setting up, etc.)

I have an SC63w. Basically the same but handheld. Great for quick light up tasks or hiking or night dog walking. Perfect for night stand and late night house maneuvering. 

I have an SC52w. Same as above but more pocketable for 'less intensive use' situations.

Soooo. Does anyone think that this will fit into my lineup as well or better than say the SC600 MKIII Hi? 

I have spottier lights, and don't think that the MKIII Hi will greatly supercede what the 63w does for me. I don't need the reach or longer H1 runtimes.

Any thoughts are appreciated!


----------



## fnsooner

^^^I am in the same boat as you. When this light (the Plus) was first announced, I had decided that it wasn’t for me. My experience with the frosted lenses is that they are only useful to me in the headlamp form factor. But when the preorders of the Plus became official, I decided to preorder. I own the SC62w, SC63w and the SC600w HI and am not really sure where the Plus will fit in.

My justification for the preorder is more about curiosity and getting a High CRI neutral flashlight with tons of lumens in such a small size. It really is unprecedented. I also haven’t bought a flashlight in eight months and Zebralight has been good to me over the years. I don’t mind throwing them a bone on this one.


----------



## Fireclaw18

I'm thinking of getting this one. Sounds like great output for a high CRI light.

Biggest downside for me is the throw. With a frosted lens and larger domed die, I expect this to have maybe 2000-3000 lux, making it suitable only for up close use.


----------



## Fireclaw18

fnsooner said:


> ^^^I am in the same boat as you. When this light (the Plus) was first announced, I had decided that it wasn’t for me. My experience with the frosted lenses is that they are only useful to me in the headlamp form factor. ...



Maybe Zebralight should come out with an H600Fd III Plus.


----------



## fnsooner

Fireclaw18 said:


> Maybe Zebralight should come out with an H600Fd III Plus.




Or c with a 4000k color temp.:naughty:

The Plus is the first flashlight that I have bought where tint is everything. If it knocks my socks off, I can find a use for it. If the tint is meh, it will probably find its way to the back of the flashlight drawer.


----------



## KeepingItLight

For me, the frosted lens is a plus!

In a general-purpose flashlight, such as the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III Plus*, I have a strong preference for broad hot spots and bright spills. A frosted lens helps enhance both of those. 

I think the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III HI* is a good companion for the Plus. 

Something like the *Astrolux S2* or *Astrolux S3* might be an even better fit with the Plus. Those two Astrolux models are the re-branded versions, respectively, of the earlier *BLF Kronos X6* and *BLF Kronos X5*. If size is a concern, the X5 is not much bigger than the SC600 HI. It out-throws it, however, by a considerable amount. If you are carrying your flashlight in a coat pocket or pack, the X6 may be the better choice. It exceeds 50,000 candela, and gives you the long runtimes of 18650. The X5 uses the smaller 14500 battery.

For those who purchased one of the regular SC600 Mk. III flashlights earlier this year, and those who bought the SC63, the decision whether to buy the Plus is a close one. The step up to high CRI is a very real improvement. The beam pattern, however, of the Plus, is probably very similar to ZebraLight's earlier releases. Depending how much you value high CRI, the hundred-dollar price tag may be more than you care to spend. 

If I already owned an SC600 or SC63, I would probably wait to see just how good the Plus turns out to be. If the reviewers confirmed what the specs are promising, I would then sell my existing SC600 or SC63, and take the plunge on the Plus.


----------



## roger-roger

KeepingItLight said:


> For me, the frosted lens is a plus!
> 
> In a general-purpose flashlight, such as the *ZebraLight SC600 Mk. III Plus*, I have a strong preference for broad hot spots and bright spills. A frosted lens helps enhance both of those.
> 
> .




Agree!


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

My wife just called. She won $600 at bingo and said she would buy me this light.

I have the SC600w Mk II L2. Great tint, size, and very bright, so looking forward to getting this one.

I do wonder about something. If the XHP35 is more efficient than the XHP50, why not throw a frosted lens on the XHP50 HI? Wouldn't that result in a smooth beam with a bit more throw? Just thinking that, if it works, it would be a nice compromise.


----------



## TCY

XHP50 doesn't have a factory flat dome HI version. Dedoming the XHP50 affects both tint and CRI. The XHP35 (172lm/W) is more efficient than XHP50 (149lm/W) but the XHP35 HI (139lm/W) is actually a bit less efficient than XHP50.


----------



## staticx57

I am buying this light _because_ it doesn't have throw.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Thanks for the info, TCY. That makes me want this new light even more. I wish there was something between 1500 lumens and 666. Maybe when the programming instructions are released I can get the 1011 lumens mode.


----------



## carl

Will a frosted lens hold back some light - in that some light will get reflected backward toward the reflector and LED?


----------



## Connor

carl said:


> Will a frosted lens hold back some light - in that some light will get reflected backward toward the reflector and LED?



Yes, about 10%. The ZL lumen numbers are OTFL (out the frosted lens), though.


----------



## Rawk

It all sounds good with the exception, that I can't use my protected 18650 with it. 
Which cells do you trust and will work with it ?


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Ordered!!



Rawk said:


> Which cells do you trust and will work with it ?



You want a good name flat top IMR, like Keeppower, LG, etc. that is 65.2 mm long with at least 3200 mAh.


----------



## TCY

Rawk said:


> It all sounds good with the exception, that I can't use my protected 18650 with it.
> Which cells do you trust and will work with it ?



Can't go wrong with Sanyo NCR18650GA. Zebralight actually tests runtimes with it.


----------



## StandardBattery

TCY said:


> Can't go wrong with Sanyo NCR18650GA. Zebralight actually tests runtimes with it.


*+1* can't go wrong with this excellent Sanyo/Panasonic cell. Great cell, Great Price.


----------



## Rawk

Thank you very much for the recommendations !
I'll probably wait for the first beamshots before ordering...cause I have no idea what High CRI at 5000k will look like !


----------



## StandardBattery

Rawk said:


> Thank you very much for the recommendations !
> I'll probably wait for the first beamshots before ordering...cause I have no idea what High CRI at 5000k will look like !


Since it has a frosted lens there won't be much to see but a nice light


----------



## Rawk

Sure, I'm more worried about the tint. Will it be just pure white ?
I need that floody high cri light mainly for photography, currently using an old 4Sevens AA² Warm White and Nitecore SRT6. 
But well, on the pictures you clearly see that its either too warm or too cold, I've got nothing inbetween.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Rawk said:


> I'll probably wait for the first beamshots before ordering...cause I have no idea what High CRI at 5000k will look like !





Rawk said:


> But well, on the pictures you clearly see that its either too warm or too cold, I've got nothing inbetween.



Recently received my Astrolux S41 4 x Nichia 5000k at 90 CRI from Banggood. Just a beautiful, diffused neutral beam... like daylight. Sure, at max the light gets hot enough to burn your fingerprints off -- but it's worth it!

Funny, just a couple weeks ago I was using the light and thinking what if Zebralight made something like this. Probably be better at heat management and with no 40-second stepdown. Then, BOOM!, SC600Fd email. LOL.


----------



## roger-roger

Flashlight Junkie said:


> Recently received my Astrolux S41 4 x Nichia 5000k at 90 CRI from Banggood. Just a beautiful, diffused neutral beam... like daylight. Sure, at max the light gets hot enough to burn your fingerprints off -- but it's worth it!
> 
> Funny, just a couple weeks ago I was using the light and thinking what if Zebralight made something like this. Probably be better at heat management and with no 40-second stepdown. Then, BOOM!, SC600Fd email. LOL.




In terms of tint, can Cree step up to the plate shoulder to shoulder with Nichia?


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

roger-roger said:


> In terms of tint, can Cree step up to the plate shoulder to shoulder with Nichia?



Hopefully, we'll have only 2 or 3 more weeks before we have an answer.

I know the Cree XM-L2 Neutral White (4400K) in my SC600 Mk II is rated at only 75 CRI, but side-by-side with the Nichia I find colours to be very similar and pleasing. Yes, the Cree is a bit warmer, but at the hotspot I find the tint almost neutral and a closer match to the Nichia.

I think Cree could finally be a contender in the tint snobbery market.


----------



## StandardBattery

Rawk said:


> Sure, I'm more worried about the tint. Will it be just pure white ?
> I need that floody high cri light mainly for photography, currently using an old 4Sevens AA² Warm White and Nitecore SRT6.
> But well, on the pictures you clearly see that its either too warm or too cold, I've got nothing inbetween.


Your camera has white balance adjustment no? Or can use RAW? ... you can make it look just the way you want regardless of the precise tint of the light. The bigger worry for photography will be how even the dispersion will be.


----------



## psychbeat

fnsooner said:


> Or c with a 4000k color temp.:naughty:
> 
> The Plus is the first flashlight that I have bought where tint is everything. If it knocks my socks off, I can find a use for it. If the tint is meh, it will probably find its way to the back of the flashlight drawer.



YES - a headlamp version w 4000K would RULE.


----------



## lampeDépêche

psychbeat said:


> YES - a headlamp version w 4000K would RULE.



Exactly. With this tint, CRI, and beam-profile, it's ideal for a headlamp. Would buy!

And I say that despite having recently purchased the 603d, another light with beautiful tint and CRI. It's a pure mule, and was the perfect thing for a really lousy job I had to do for hours on end in our crawlspace. It made the space much more bearable to me, the border-line claustrophobe. The right light can make you work better, for longer, and with less sense of the world closing in on you.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Flashlight Junkie said:


> My wife just called. She won $600 at bingo and said she would buy me this light.



But $600 minus one SC600Fd-III-Plus leaves $500 left over, right? 

Do you think she'd consider buying five more for your five closest, dearest friends on the internet?

Like, say, your old buddy Lampe? 

Just wondering....


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

lampeDépêche said:


> Do you think she'd consider buying five more for your five closest, dearest friends on the internet?
> 
> Like, say, your old buddy Lampe?
> 
> Just wondering....



I asked her, then she just looked at me like I was brain-damaged and walked away. I'll try again next time she wins. 

We're still friends, right?


----------



## lampeDépêche

Flashlight Junkie said:


> I asked her, then she just looked at me like I was brain-damaged and walked away. I'll try again next time she wins.
> 
> We're still friends, right?



We're totally friends. We've got a lot in common--my wife thinks that I'm brain-damaged, too!


----------



## markr6

StandardBattery said:


> Your camera has white balance adjustment no? Or can use RAW? ... you can make it look just the way you want regardless of the precise tint of the light. The bigger worry for photography will be how even the dispersion will be.



Exactly. I used to photograph inside a factory with high pressure sodium bulb lighting. Everything was literally ORANGEISH-YELLOW. Nasty. Shot raw + a few clicks in photoshop and you would think it was shot in 5000K daylight without degrading the photo quality. You could do the same with white balance on a cheaper camera, to some extent.


----------



## markr6

Flashlight Junkie said:


> I know the Cree XM-L2 Neutral White (4400K) in my SC600 Mk II is rated at only 75 CRI, but side-by-side with the Nichia I find colours to be very similar and pleasing. Yes, the Cree is a bit warmer, but at the hotspot I find the tint almost neutral and a closer match to the Nichia.
> 
> I think Cree could finally be a contender in the tint snobbery market.



They can, but the problem is consistency. At least with the cheaper LEDs. I sold my SC5w OP; whoever got that won the lotto. It was literally the EXACT same tint as both my L10 flashlights with Nichia 219B. All my other zebralights? They're all over the board.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

markr6 said:


> They can, but the problem is consistency. At least with the cheaper LEDs. I sold my SC5w OP; whoever got that won the lotto. It was literally the EXACT same tint as both my L10 flashlights with Nichia 219B. All my other zebralights? They're all over the board.



Well, here's hoping these high-CRI XHP50 LEDs are hand-picked. 

I was out last night with my Astrolux S41 and noticed that it's beam is 180 degrees! At 1400 lumens on max, it's okay for throw. However, if this new SC600Fd III Plus has a 90 degree beam at 1500 lumens then it should throw MUCH farther. Right?


----------



## staticx57

It would in theory? But I am sure it won't be a harsh cut off on the sides so you will see some spill over anyways


----------



## markr6

Throw is so easy to quantify to the naked eye. Even someone that has no interest in flashlights can tell. Flood isn't so impressive (unless you get into the crazy 4x18650 popcans). So when we have a rather floody light, I think many of us still want some throw we can identify and use, but definitely not to use as a thrower. Just something to "get by" with when do you need to see a little farther.


----------



## roger-roger

I wonder on flood/floody to standard beam, if the latter might shadow-cast an improved view of roots, rocks, ruts on the trail etc. Aren't shadows important in lighted darkness for depth perception and detail?


----------



## twistedraven

Shadows enable us to discern texture, in which case, having both lights in your hand will yield the same results, one will just do it with a broader width, and the other will do it with more range. The range shouldn't be a concern unless you're on a bike or something.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

So I have to purchase an unprotected, flat-top, hybrid IMR for this new flashlight. Which one should I get? 
I recently bought four (4) Orbtronic 3500mAh Protected 18650 10A Dual Protection (Panasonic-Sanyo) for a few of my other lights. They work GREAT!
After lots of internet reading, and watching scary YouTube videos of exploding ICR 18650s, I've decided that hybrid IMR is pretty safe.
It also helps that I can't use protected in this new Zebralight. The problem I have is amps.
I see lots of people saying to buy NCR18650GA, which is rated at 10A. No biggie, since Zebralight says the SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50 needs only 8A.
I also just read on a vaping forum that it's a good idea to use no more than 80% of max constant discharge current. Again, safe at 8A (80% of 10A).
HOWEVER, I've been reading that, over time, the internal resistance of a battery increases. If this is true, then the battery is under more strain to deliver the required amps. Right?


----------



## staticx57

Just get some Samsung 30Q or LG HG2. Both are excellent cells.


----------



## oKtosiTe

staticx57 said:


> Just get some Samsung 30Q or LG HG2. Both are excellent cells.


Have you personally confirmed that those are a good fit length-wise? Since the NCR18650GA fits the requirements and is the recommended cell by Zebralight, I can only vouch for the MJ1 cell to some degree. It seems a bit more fragile at the positive terminal than the GA.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> Shadows enable us to discern texture, in which case, having both lights in your hand will yield the same results, one will just do it with a broader width, and the other will do it with more range. The range shouldn't be a concern unless you're on a bike or something.



I think he meant for up close work. Like I mentioned, I was under my jeep and when my headlight was inches away from a hose or pipe, it basically cast that shadow over the entire viewing area behind it. VERY annoying, impossible to work. So I had my PD32UE to put BEHIND that object and light up everything else.

Sorry, back to the SC600Fd Plus talk...


----------



## markr6

oKtosiTe said:


> Have you personally confirmed that those are a good fit length-wise? Since the NCR18650GA fits the requirements and is the recommended cell by Zebralight, I can only vouch for the MJ1 cell to some degree. It seems a bit more fragile at the positive terminal than the GA.



That metal seems pretty flimsy on all batteries I've seen. I don't see it as a problem, unless it somehow got so dented that it stopped making contact (unlikely)


----------



## staticx57

Personally only confirmed so far via spec sheets. However people seem to be using the SC600 Mk iii just fine with these cells. Besides these are well known very highly regarded high drain cells. And under load the voltage will sag more with the NCR18650GA because they are not designed for high drain nearly as much as the other two mentioned. I have all three cells and if you want I can measure them with calipers to compare.


----------



## oKtosiTe

markr6 said:


> That metal seems pretty flimsy on all batteries I've seen. I don't see it as a problem, unless it somehow got so dented that it stopped making contact (unlikely)


It's flimsy on the GA as well, but seems more flimsy on my MJ1's.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

staticx57 said:


> Personally only confirmed so far via spec sheets. However people seem to be using the SC600 Mk iii just fine with these cells. Besides these are well known very highly regarded high drain cells. And under load the voltage will sag more with the NCR18650GA because they are not designed for high drain nearly as much as the other two mentioned. I have all three cells and if you want I can measure them with calipers to compare.



My main concern is that the battery isn't stressed, either from heat or sag. I would really appreciate it if you would measure the 3 cells to confirm the length and width for us. Thanks. [emoji4]


----------



## psychbeat

Just get a raw dog GA. Done.


----------



## staticx57

If you plan on running the light on high you are better off with a higher drain cell than the GA. Less voltage sag means the battery will not be working as hard to provide current meaning it will physically degrade less and run cooler.


----------



## markr6

^ Good stuff! I'll probably keep using GAs though since I have plenty of them sitting idle.


----------



## scs

Just noticed that the 429 lumen level is also PID controlled. Does that mean that all the higher levels will step down below 429 lumens (how far below???) unless sufficient cooling is provided?


----------



## Connor

Flashlight Junkie said:


> My main concern is that the battery isn't stressed, either from heat or sag.



Not going to happen with the NCR18650GA. Mind that the ZL is *not *able to sustain the 1500 lumens for very long (except in a freezer/Antarctica). It will drop brightness and current consumption pretty quickly and settle at ~400 lumens after a few minutes.


----------



## snowlover91

Connor said:


> Not going to happen with the NCR18650GA. Mind that the ZL is *not *able to sustain the 1500 lumens for very long (except in a freezer/Antarctica). It will drop brightness and current consumption pretty quickly and settle at ~400 lumens after a few minutes.



I doubt it drops that low unless used in a warm environment or somewhere with little to no air circulation. Keep in mind the quoted runtimes for the PID modes are HIGHLY variable and dependent upon numerous factors. My best guess is that if it operates similar to the MK3 HI that the step-down will be to the 700-1000 lumen range after a few minutes depending on air circulation, temperature, etc. and possibly lower if used in warmer conditions or with no air circulation. Mileage will vary on this one and until we have it in our hands all we can do is guess.


----------



## Connor

The 429 lumen high mode is PID controlled - I guess that means it cannot sustain this level under normal conditions?


----------



## StandardBattery

Connor said:


> The 429 lumen high mode is PID controlled - I guess that means it cannot sustain this level under normal conditions?


What is normal? Gripped in someones hand? Sitting on a table? Ambient 20deg C or 25deg C? I think there is no normal, but a very wide range.


----------



## fnsooner

Connor said:


> The 429 lumen high mode is PID controlled - I guess that means it cannot sustain this level under normal conditions?



Or it could mean that Zebralight decided that the PID might be needed in certain circumstances. My guess is that under normal conditions, the Plus will be able to maintain 429 lumens for the entirety of its runtime. 

I am tailstanding my SC63w as we speak on H2(580 lumens) and it is barely getting warm after several minutes. Not even warm really.


----------



## fnsooner

I have three of the NCR18650GA cells that I rotate through my SC63w and SC600w HI. I can confirm that they all have the dented positive end similar to the above picture. When I ordered the Plus, I ordered another NCR18650GA. 

They seem to work great for me and the dented positive end doesn't seem to affect the operation. I get no premature step down due to low voltage unless the battery is fairly depleted. I throw my SC63w on H1 into the bottom of whatever I am working on and let the electronics babysit it. 

It looks like the Plus might be more demanding than my 63 and HI though. We will see how it goes.


----------



## staticx57




----------



## Flashlight Junkie

staticx57 said:


> If you plan on running the light on high you are better off with a higher drain cell than the GA. Less voltage sag means the battery will not be working as hard to provide current meaning it will physically degrade less and run cooler.



I'm looking for a 3200+ mAh hybrid IMR. Safe chemistry, laughs at heat, and can handle 15 Amps.



snowlover91 said:


> I doubt it drops that low unless used in a warm environment or somewhere with little to no air circulation. Keep in mind the quoted runtimes for the PID modes are HIGHLY variable and dependent upon numerous factors. My best guess is that if it operates similar to the MK3 HI that the step-down will be to the 700-1000 lumen range after a few minutes depending on air circulation, temperature, etc. and possibly lower if used in warmer conditions or with no air circulation. Mileage will vary on this one and until we have it in our hands all we can do is guess.



Agreed. It won't drop to ~400 lumens unless battery is getting low or you're using it in the Sahara desert. Even though we won't, at first, be able to access the 1000 lumen mode, I'm guessing that's the level it will drop to after 1500 lumens gets to be too much.



Connor said:


> The 429 lumen high mode is PID controlled - I guess that means it cannot sustain this level under normal conditions?



429 lumens is nothing for the SC600 form factor. I think Zebralight just threw in the 429 PID for extra LED protection.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Thanks so much for the photos, staticx57. Very helpful. [emoji4]


----------



## staticx57

Flashlight Junkie said:


> I'm looking for a 3200+ mAh hybrid IMR. Safe chemistry, laughs at heat, and can handle 15 Amps.




Err those don't exist just yet. You can either get the 3500mah GA or MJ1 which won't handle 15 amps or you can get the 3000mah 30Q HG2 which will. As of this point in time there is the capacity/amp tradeoff. 

If you want to run the light on high you are better off with the 30Q/HG2 and if you want to run it on low you are better off with the MJ1/GA. That tradeoff does still exist, both INR and NCR are "safe" chemistries at least compared to ICR.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

staticx57 said:


> Err those don't exist just yet. You can either get the 3500mah GA or MJ1 which won't handle 15 amps or you can get the 3000mah 30Q HG2 which will. As of this point in time there is the capacity/amp tradeoff.
> 
> If you want to run the light on high you are better off with the 30Q/HG2 and if you want to run it on low you are better off with the MJ1/GA. That tradeoff does still exist, both INR and NCR are "safe" chemistries at least compared to ICR.



Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. Looks like 30Q or HG2 are in my future for this light and maybe my Astrolux S41 (it draws almost 10 Amps). Curious, do you have a preference between the 30Q and HG2?


----------



## akhyar

Flashlight Junkie said:


> Thanks for your help. Much appreciated. Looks like 30Q or HG2 are in my future for this light and maybe my Astrolux S41 (it draws almost 10 Amps). Curious, do you have a preference between the 30Q and HG2?



mooch at ECF has tested the 30Q, HG2 and the new Sony VTC6 and his testing seems to indicate that the Sony is slightly better over the 30Q and HG2, but very minimal difference.
The 30Q is slightly better over the HG2 but in real life usage for flashlight, I'm not sure if we noticed any different between these 3 cells


----------



## oKtosiTe

StandardBattery said:


> What is normal? Gripped in someones hand? Sitting on a table? Ambient 20deg C or 25deg C? I think there is no normal, but a very wide range.


Accidentally activated in my pocket? If it prevents ouchies and LED degradation in that scenario, I am all for it. PID regulation doesn't have to mean that it has to step down under normal use, but can mean that the light can step down under specific circumstances.


----------



## oKtosiTe

staticx57 said:


> Pictures snipped.


Thanks, will definitely add some 30Q's to my next battery purchase. Then I can compare the GA's, MJ1's and the 30Q's.
Also interested to see how the positive ends will fare on these. So far, my GA's have been fine, but I could just have been lucky.


----------



## lampeDépêche

I have a couple of red-label AW IMRs that say "20A" on the label. They are flat-tops that come in just a hair over 65mm, and look like pic #3 from staticx57 (only he doesn't show the label).

Are these generally regarded as safe? I'm a little puzzled that no one has mentioned them, but maybe people are just referring to them by a different name/number.

Also--is the 20-amp rating credible? If so, sounds like a good choice for the high-draw ZLs.


----------



## psychbeat

Unless yer running it in the snow it's unlikely with PID to draw 7a constantly. 
Until someone does some tail cap measurements w good leads we won't know Just how much it's drawing at room temp after it heats up. 
Any of these IMR or "hybrid" or whatever should be fine & it's unlikely you'll see much visible difference.


----------



## StandardBattery

oKtosiTe said:


> Accidentally activated in my pocket? If it prevents ouchies and LED degradation in that scenario, I am all for it. PID regulation doesn't have to mean that it has to step down under normal use, but can mean that the light can step down under specific circumstances.


I agree I don't know if you were replying to my post by mistake or you mis interpreted what I wrote. I have no problem with all levels being PID, does not mean anything; the more the merrier. It specifically does not mean what the manufacturer thinks is 'normal', it's only one indicator of the range of conditions under which they are considering the operation of the device.


----------



## oKtosiTe

StandardBattery said:


> I agree I don't know if you were replying to my post by mistake or you mis interpreted what I wrote. I have no problem with all levels being PID, does not mean anything; the more the merrier. It specifically does not mean what the manufacturer thinks is 'normal', it's only one indicator of the range of conditions under which they are considering the operation of the device.


I know. I was just trying the add an example for the person you were replying to (Connor).


----------



## tops2

Connor said:


> The 429 lumen high mode is PID controlled - I guess that means it cannot sustain this level under normal conditions?



I'm guessing all their lights are calibrated for the same PID predicted conditions (otherwise it'll make engineering tracking hard). When used at the same condition as all their other lights, I'm guessing they expect the Plus to generate enough eat to put in PID for this level. The runtime for the 429 lumens is just "slightly" (in my opinion) longer than the 666 lumens level and not appreciatively longer than the H1 level (in my opinion for the extra ~36 minutes). I'm guessing the light may "settle" at about the 429 lumens (or a bit lower).

But I guess we won't know until the Plus ships.


----------



## oeL

Connor said:


> Not going to happen with the NCR18650GA. Mind that the ZL is *not *able to sustain the 1500 lumens for very long (except in a freezer/Antarctica). It will drop brightness and current consumption pretty quickly and settle at ~400 lumens after a few minutes.



Did you change the PID target temperature, or did you leave the default value? With my SC62/SC600 I noticed a nice increase of brightness over time with +5° (the maximum possible).


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Okay, I was getting so frustrated about what battery chemistry I should be buying, especially for this new SC600Fd, that I did up an infographic to help me. I want to match the popular batteries listed to their chemistries but getting so little information from the web. Maybe some of you guys have the answers. What do you think?


----------



## Connor

You didn't get the more/less safe part quite right. All proper cells regardless of chemistry will have a predetermined breaking point and should not explode because the canister breaks open before enough pressure for a "real" explosion can build up. 

Some chemistries are more prone to doing that than others, but it's not like these vent and those explode - they all "vent with flame" once a certain temperature/pressure is reached. 

Except when the predetermined breaking point fails .. *then *they go


----------



## StandardBattery

Connor said:


> You didn't get the more/less safe part quite right. All proper cells regardless of chemistry will have a predetermined breaking point and should not explode because the canister breaks open before enough pressure for a "real" explosion can build up.
> 
> Some chemistries are more prone to doing that than others, but it's not like these vent and those explode - they all "vent with flame" once a certain temperature/pressure is reached.
> 
> Except when the predetermined breaking point fails .. *then *they go


I think he did OK except for the yellow, it should be more towards the less save region it seems based on reported events. I agree with the current distinction between the IMR and standard chemistry not because of how they respond under regular use, but how easy they are to trigger into thermal run away. Testing has showed that IMR is much better at handling physical damage.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

StandardBattery said:


> I think he did OK except for the yellow, it should be more towards the less save region it seems based on reported events. I agree with the current distinction between the IMR and standard chemistry not because of how they respond under regular use, but how easy they are to trigger into thermal run away. Testing has showed that IMR is much better at handling physical damage.



Not bad for version #1. LOL. It's a work in progress and certainly not meant to cover every chemistry, just those chemistries flashaholics use most. It's a general guide and any positive feedback will be used to improve it. Maybe, once complete, we could have a permanent place for it as a helpful reference. Just wish I could get the listed batteries in their correct spots. Manufacturers aren't forthcoming about their chemistries. Anyone out there know their chemistries?


----------



## markr6

Getting close!! Hopefully they ship this week or early next.


----------



## fnsooner

**Twiddling fingers**
**Looks down at watch**
**Continues twiddling fingers**


----------



## Mr. Tone

Well, I made the pre-order and now I can sit with the rest of you and eat some popcorn.


----------



## snowlover91

Anyone email them yet to see if they'll be shipping this week?


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

This waiting is killing me. You guys do this sort of thing a lot?
I really should be ordering my 30Qs from Orbtronic now so I'll be ready when this light shows.
Anyway, here is version 2 of my Chemistries infographic. What do you think?


----------



## StandardBattery

People probably hate this thread being updated when it's not for any reason other than to say the lights have shipped but... if your graphic is to represent the boundaries then 8 Amps Continuous must be at least 10 Amps since that is the current spec for the Sanyo/Panasonic GA, and I think that was the spec for the N cell also. There may even be a higher spec for a lower capacity cell. Also the graph can be a bit misleading as the legend/colors for the chemistries on the Saftey scale don't align with on the other scales as Red really is just suppose to indicate bad, and Green good, but I find I want to follow say IFR on all 3 scales, but I cannot, so one can't compare the different chemistries for Capacity and AMPS on this graphic. The AMPS scale would maybe be better labeled Discharge or MAX Discharge (a little long though); however since these things are not meant to be for the technical people AMPS is maybe best after all.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

StandardBattery said:


> People probably hate this thread being updated when it's not for any reason other than to say the lights have shipped but... if your graphic is to represent the boundaries then 8 Amps Continuous must be at least 10 Amps since that is the current spec for the Sanyo/Panasonic GA, and I think that was the spec for the N cell also. There may even be a higher spec for a lower capacity cell. Also the graph can be a bit misleading as the legend/colors for the chemistries on the Saftey scale don't align with on the other scales as Red really is just suppose to indicate bad, and Green good, but I find I want to follow say IFR on all 3 scales, but I cannot, so one can't compare the different chemistries for Capacity and AMPS on this graphic. The AMPS scale would maybe be better labeled Discharge or MAX Discharge (a little long though); however since these things are not meant to be for the technical people AMPS is maybe best after all.



It'll never be perfect because the whole battery industry is shrouded in unknowns. A riddle wrapped in a puzzle inside a mystery. Like a turducken. LOL. This is for people new to our addiction. Of course there are inconsistencies. I was going to start the Amps at 5, since many lower spec batteries only do 5. It's just a general guideline.


----------



## lampeDépêche

I haven't ordered mine yet. 

I am waiting for one of you good people to post the GIF that alternates between the SC600 PLUS and the SC600w III HI. Then maybe another GIF that alternates between the PLUS and an SC63, and another comparing the PLUS to an H600w mk II.

Oh, and while I'm dreaming--could you make up these GIFs so that some of them are interior spaces, and some are out in the woods or in a back yard facing trees and foliage?

That's what I really want to see--how does the beam and output compare to some other ZL standards.


----------



## StandardBattery

lampeDépêche said:


> I haven't ordered mine yet.
> 
> I am waiting for one of you good people to post the GIF that alternates between the SC600 PLUS and the SC600w III HI. Then maybe another GIF that alternates between the PLUS and an SC63, and another comparing the PLUS to an H600w mk II.
> 
> Oh, and while I'm dreaming--could you make up these GIFs so that some of them are interior spaces, and some are out in the woods or in a back yard facing trees and foliage?
> 
> That's what I really want to see--how does the beam and output compare to some other ZL standards.


I don't think you are the only one. Even many of those who preordered are looking for the same info. Zebralight does not always get it right on the first run (nor do most manufactures) so there is always that risk of being an early adopter; and I just got burned by the Nitecore TIP even though I know better. Zebralight though is a different class of manufacturer so even their worst mistake is likely to be workable for me. I just need this light and the Klarus G20 to land in my hands and I can get out of here and back to life for a while. It's been exciting to see the new stuff. I only wanted a couple new lights, but waiting around here I've purchased several lights, batteries, and chargers just for fun.


----------



## Rawk

Is there a discount for CPF users @ Zebralight ?


----------



## markr6

lampeDépêche said:


> I haven't ordered mine yet.
> 
> I am waiting for one of you good people to post the GIF that alternates between the SC600 PLUS and the SC600w III HI. Then maybe another GIF that alternates between the PLUS and an SC63, and another comparing the PLUS to an H600w mk II.
> 
> Oh, and while I'm dreaming--could you make up these GIFs so that some of them are interior spaces, and some are out in the woods or in a back yard facing trees and foliage?
> 
> That's what I really want to see--how does the beam and output compare to some other ZL standards.



I have all of those (H600w II, SC63w, SC600w HI and soon the Plus). So I'll get some beamshots ASAP.

I feel the need to reiterate, and also remind myself, not to set the bar too high for the Plus. I don't mean to degrade it in any way...it is going to be amazing. But I'm certain the floodiness will catch some off guard. I know it is supposed to be that way with the frosted lens, but some people still just can't get over that when compared to something like the SC600 HI. Throw is much easier to see and quantify. It's not even comparing apples and oranges...it's more like apples and BBQ ribs. The are complete opposites in terms of beam pattern.

I look forward to comparing these. Good idea on the indoor vs outdoor; that will be key with these flood/throw beams


----------



## roger-roger

There could be the possibility they'd optimized the reflector to give a smidge more throw. Why not go the extra route toward a well balanced general use beam, as they've put so much into it already. I'm still guessing throw or lack of it, will be less an issue than we might think.


----------



## markr6

roger-roger said:


> There could be the possibility they'd optimized the reflector to give a smidge more throw. Why not go the extra route toward a well balanced general use beam, as they've put so much into it already. I'm still guessing throw or lack of it, will be less an issue than we might think.



Too bad the frosted part is on the inside. It would be nice to wetsand it down to a point where you're happy to trade some artifact for less flood. Hopefully it's not an issue like you say. Certainly not a issue for those looking for a floody light. Personally, I'm starting to lean more towards throw after being into floody lights for so long.


----------



## Kallyfudge

Rawk said:


> Is there a discount for CPF users @ Zebralight ?



I am considering getting this light. I will wait till a few reviews come out beforehand. Until recently I thought my LED Lenser T7.2 was the best light in the world! Since then I picked up a S1 Baton



. Oh dear CPF what have you done.. Also need to wait to get paid





Does anybody know if theres a good way to get these in the UK? The only places I have seen ZL sold in the UK do a simple currency conversion of £1 = $1. If not is ordering from the US OK? or will I pay for customs? Not something I have done before. Also +1 on the discount code question


----------



## Mr. Tone

I'm actually looking forward to this being floody since my purposes for it will be up close use in general. I have plenty of serious throwers but no lights that are 5000K with 90+ CRI and over 1000 lumens to top it all off on 1x18650. :thumbsup:


----------



## noboneshotdog

Mr. Tone said:


> I'm actually looking forward to this being floody since my purposes for it will be up close use in general. I have plenty of serious throwers but no lights that are 5000K with 90+ CRI and over 1000 lumens to top it all off on 1x18650. :thumbsup:



I will be using mine for up close work as well. Reading schematics and instructions for plumbing /hvac can be challenging with hot spot glare. So looking forward to a light that will be a little more pleasant and gentle on the eyes.


----------



## StandardBattery

I'm just looking forward to see how it works, and to compare it side by side with sever generations and model lines. They could surprise us with a new frosted lens, they could surprise us with just a wonderful high CRI light. Either way it's going to be fun to see. I'm sure if this one is popular there will be other models following, maybe they will create a new OP reflector for later non F versions. Maybe they will create a new line of even bigger lights (although I kind of hope they don't... but then I would like to see them do both a 26650 light and a 18350 light. Love to see them make the SC3 that takes the 18350, so few good lights can accept that cell. And since I like single cell lights, I've been hoping for a 26650 from them for a couple of years now. I think the lack of available good cells in those two formats though from the top tier manufacturers has probably kept them away along with lots of other considerations.


----------



## TCY

I bugged them again and they said the first batch of Plus will be shipped out to non US customers at the end of this week. The wait is almost over.


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> I bugged them again and they said the first batch of Plus will be shipped out to non US customers at the end of this week. The wait is almost over.



If it ships Friday or Saturday to international customers then typically the US orders ship out 5-7 days later.. so next Wednesday-Friday we should hopefully be seeing US orders ship! The anticipation is unbearable lol!


----------



## Rawk

Kallyfudge said:


> I am considering getting this light. I will wait till a few reviews come out beforehand. Until recently I thought my LED Lenser T7.2 was the best light in the world! Since then I picked up a S1 Baton
> 
> 
> 
> . Oh dear CPF what have you done.. Also need to wait to get paid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anybody know if theres a good way to get these in the UK? The only places I have seen ZL sold in the UK do a simple currency conversion of £1 = $1. If not is ordering from the US OK? or will I pay for customs? Not something I have done before. Also +1 on the discount code question


Welcome, if you want this light as soon as possible, you'll probably have to preorder and will pay taxes.
If you're not in a hurry, just wait for local flashlight shops to sell it.
Zebralight told me there is no discount at the moment.

I've already purchased two Sanyo NCR18650GA from Amazon.
Why is there no sign on the cells, where they are from, how much capacity they got etc. ?
They look like noname cells...  Is it fake ? How can you tell the difference ?


----------



## 18650

StandardBattery said:


> I'm just looking forward to see how it works, and to compare it side by side with sever generations and model lines. They could surprise us with a new frosted lens, they could surprise us with just a wonderful high CRI light. Either way it's going to be fun to see. I'm sure if this one is popular there will be other models following, maybe they will create a new OP reflector for later non F versions. Maybe they will create a new line of even bigger lights (although I kind of hope they don't... but then I would like to see them do both a 26650 light and a 16350 light. Love to see them make the SC3 that takes the 18650, so few good lights can crept that cell. And since I like single cell lights, I've been hoping for a 26650 from them for a couple of years now. I think the lack of a valuable good cells in those two formats though from the top tier manufacturers has probably kept them away along with lots of other considerations.


 ZL seems cautious, more cautious than most, in its 18650 cell requirements to the point where I would not expect them to make things that ask for cells that only come from unknown, dodgy, or second tier Chinese makers. Look at the mess with the new Samsung Note and presumably those batteries came from Samsung's own tier one factories.


----------



## TCY

Rawk said:


> Welcome, if you want this light as soon as possible, you'll probably have to preorder and will pay taxes.
> If you're not in a hurry, just wait for local flashlight shops to sell it.
> Zebralight told me there is no discount at the moment.
> 
> I've already purchased two Sanyo NCR18650GA from Amazon.
> Why is there no sign on the cells, where they are from, how much capacity they got etc. ?
> They look like noname cells...  Is it fake ? How can you tell the difference ?



Remember that 18650s are supposedly for industrial uses. Most of them have those very simple packaging, only identifiable by colour and codes printed on them except rebranded 18650 cells (Olight, Nitecore cells etc.).
As for your 18650GAs, as long as they have the red wrapping and blue head they are most likely to be genuine, plus you got yours from Amazon, so no need to worry.


----------



## Aggressor

TCY said:


> ...plus you got yours from Amazon, so no need to worry.



Amazon is infested with fakes nowadays.


----------



## TCY

Aggressor said:


> Amazon is infested with fakes nowadays.



Hmm, I thought Amazon could be trusted. Thanks for the update.


----------



## StandardBattery

18650 said:


> ZL seems cautious, more cautious than most, in its 18650 cell requirements to the point where I would not expect them to make things that ask for cells that only come from unknown, dodgy, or second tier Chinese makers. Look at the mess with the new Samsung Note and presumably those batteries came from Samsung's own tier one factories.


Yes i mentioned that in my post. I had several typos and bad auto-corrections in my original post that have been corrected.


----------



## eraursls1984

TCY said:


> Hmm, I thought Amazon could be trusted. Thanks for the update.


They use to be pretty good, but now it's a free for all there. I've cut way back on the things that I'll buy there.


----------



## Rawk

Thank you ! 
I've looked at some reviews too, my cells look exactly like that.
There's also a little scan code on them, but believe it or not, I don't have a smartphone or anything else to scan that !
But it's true, you can get fakes from Amazon, since they ship things for other companies.


----------



## markr6

Rawk said:


> But it's true, you can get fakes from Amazon, since they ship things for other companies.



+1. Don't blame amazon, blame the actual sellers. If I see _"Ships from and sold by Amazon.com"_ or another reputable seller, no worries. But when it says something like _"Sold by FungKungGooHoo and Fulfilled by Amazon"_, I hesitate.


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> +1. Don't blame amazon, blame the actual sellers. If I see _"Ships from and sold by Amazon.com"_ or another reputable seller, no worries. But when it says something like _"Sold by FungKungGooHoo and Fulfilled by Amazon"_, I hesitate.



Hey _FungKungGooHoo _is where I got my genuine guaranteed to work and not catch on fire 10,000mah 18650 cells from :twothumbs All kidding aside though is there anyone who preordered this light and lives internationally? If it ships out this week the international customers could begin receiving these by early next week.


----------



## jon_slider

lampeDépêche said:


> SC600 PLUS and the SC600w III HI.
> PLUS and an SC63
> PLUS to an H600w mk II.



_Only the Plus is 90+ High CRI_
the SC63 is 1 oz lighter, and higher CCT than the others

SC600Fd *Plus*: XHP50 (CRI: 93-95, CCT 5000K)
SC600w3*HI*: XHP35 (CCT 4500K)

SC600Fd *Plus*: XHP50 (CRI: 93-95, CCT 5000K)
SC*63* LED: XHP35 (CCT 5700K)

SC600Fd *Plus*: XHP50 (CRI: 93-95, CCT 5000K)
SC600w *Mk II* L2: XM-L2 (CCT 4400K)


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> Hey _FungKungGooHoo _is where I got my genuine guaranteed to work and not catch on fire 10,000mah 18650 cells from :twothumbs All kidding aside though is there anyone who preordered this light and lives internationally? If it ships out this week the international customers could begin receiving these by early next week.



That would be me, I live in Australia. First one to get it on CPF?:naughty:


----------



## Wendee

TCY said:


> That would be me, I live in Australia. First one to get it on CPF?:naughty:



That would be so cool, wouldn't it? Whoever gets the first light will certainly have bragging rights (and probably get asked a ton of questions). 

I was just telling my husband that there's a flashlight that no one even _has _yet but there are more than 600 posts about the light, in one thread! He gave me the "you crazy flashlight people" look, lol. No doubt now he's expecting to see a new Zebralight in the house soon.  CPF is so great.


----------



## TCY

Wendee said:


> That would be so cool, wouldn't it? Whoever gets the first light will certainly have bragging rights (and probably get asked a ton of questions).
> 
> I was just telling my husband that there's a flashlight that no one even _has _yet but there are more than 600 posts about the light, in one thread! He gave me the "you crazy flashlight people" look, lol. No doubt now he's expecting to see a new Zebralight in the house soon.  CPF is so great.



Oh I'm so gonna brag:twothumbs

It's rather rare to see a lady into flashlights though, good for you! Maybe drag the hubby to CPF as well


----------



## markr6

International or not, a little voice tells me I may be the first...we'll see


----------



## snowlover91

markr6 said:


> International or not, a little voice tells me I may be the first...we'll see



Did you get a shipping notice yet? Are you working out a secret deal with ZL? Haha I remember the one you preordered last year I think it was that came like 2-3 weeks early!


----------



## lampeDépêche

Hey, maybe Markr6 has bribed the ZL people to give him a direct line from the factory. 

I don't care, as long as he shows us the pictures! He can have the Precious, just show us the pictures! 

That way we will know if we wants the Precious ourselves, if we must have it!


----------



## noboneshotdog

lampeDépêche said:


> Hey, maybe Markr6 has bribed the ZL people to give him a direct line from the factory.
> 
> I don't care, as long as he shows us the pictures! He can have the Precious, just show us the pictures!
> 
> That way we will know if we wants the Precious ourselves, if we must have it!




We MUST have the PRECIOUS. We loves the precious.


----------



## TCY

Order status is now New(shipping from China). No shipping notice yet.


----------



## staticx57

markr6 said:


> International or not, a little voice tells me I may be the first...we'll see



Sounds to me you are volunteering beam shots


----------



## Koam

I ordered mine on 8/31. I emailed ZL today to ask if my order will be shipping on the 24th. They replied: Sorry it will be about 1 or 2 more weeks. Grrrrr....


----------



## samgab

Oh yeah... I got my shipping confirmation notice and tracking number today. Mine is winging its way to me here in New Zealand!


----------



## TCY

Looks like markr6 won't be the first guy to get it after all:naughty:


----------



## samgab

TCY said:


> Looks like markr6 won't be the first guy to get it after all:naughty:



lol, the race is on! But shipping from China always seems to take an inordinately long time to arrive at my door here in NZ. I'm expecting to see in in about 2 weeks since they shipped it today from China...


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

My order status says "processing". Hope this thing ships soon as the waiting is driving me crazy. I'm in Canada.


----------



## ToyTank

I think anyone who has Pre-ordered from ZL in the past knows it can be a wait. This light was announced early 2016, "released" 8-2016, pre-order late august, ship late September is par for coarse IF everything goes smooth lol


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> Order status is now New(shipping from China). No shipping notice yet.



Did you get a shipping notice yet? Usually when the status changes like that it means the package will soon be shipped! I want to email ZL to find out when my order will ship but I need to be patient... oh the wait...


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> Did you get a shipping notice yet? Usually when the status changes like that it means the package will soon be shipped! I want to email ZL to find out when my order will ship but I need to be patient... oh the wait...



I upgraded from EMS to DHL for the 2 days faster delivery time, But they said my order will be shipped in a few business days. 

So this time samgab is the one who gets his light earlier than everyone else does!


----------



## StandardBattery

I hope Zebralight looks in their records and sees how many lights I've bought from them, and decide to expedite my order. 

 Yes; I know I'm dreaming, but it's all I can do until the light gets here.


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> I upgraded from EMS to DHL for the 2 days faster delivery time, But they said my order will be shipped in a few business days.
> 
> So this time samgab is the one who gets his light earlier than everyone else does!



Maybe not, he said it usually takes 2 weeks to get something from China where he lives and by then many in the US should have received their lights. I would also think some of the international orders will only take a few days to arrive, I remember last year several people received theirs who didn't really post in the thread until the light actually arrived. I got the 2 day shipping here in the US so once they ship them (hopefully next Wednesday or Thursday) I should receive the light quickly.


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> Maybe not, he said it usually takes 2 weeks to get something from China where he lives and by then many in the US should have received their lights. I would also think some of the international orders will only take a few days to arrive, I remember last year several people received theirs who didn't really post in the thread until the light actually arrived. I got the 2 day shipping here in the US so once they ship them (hopefully next Wednesday or Thursday) I should receive the light quickly.



DHL to AU takes 3-4 days. Here's to hope that my light will be shipped on Monday. :naughty:


----------



## StandardBattery

This light is barely out of the gate but.... I just finished spending 5mins with a new Klarus G20. It has an XHP70 emitter in a short OP reflector and I have to say it has a very floody and clean beam. It also has a very nice warmer/neutral tint on my copy and the beam just looks great. I'm sure the 600Fd III Plus will be smoother at close range, but I'm just sayin' with an OP reflector We could be getting a non F version on some date that's got a nice beam. As long as they don't need to change the depth of the reflector it may just need a bit of OP to make a SC600d III Plus. 

Finally with the XHP50 and XHP70 LEDs there are more 26650 lights being made, it might finally be time for Zebralight to look at that as well. Of course it seem like the latest Nichia 219C LEDs are also finally making it to smaller customers and Zebralight could make some variations of their existing models with that LED as the efficiency seems to have really improved. I suspect though they are too busy with all the new CREE and it's probably easier in manufacturing not to introduce another emitter.

First impressions are I'm happy with the G20, so I expect I'll be very happy with this new Zebra.


----------



## Equitymind

Today.


----------



## DMS1970

Just ordered 1. I was kinda ignoring this thread, but it got the better of my curiousity. I should have waited for the reciews, but my guess is either this light or my MKIII will be gone in the next month or so.


----------



## TCY

Hey samgab, could you please share your order number? The reason I'm asking is because that ZL says that they ship orders based on order# and I want to know how long do I need to wait till they ship mine. My order # is 10367207. Cheers.


----------



## samgab

TCY said:


> Hey samgab, could you please share your order number? The reason I'm asking is because that ZL says that they ship orders based on order# and I want to know how long do I need to wait till they ship mine. My order # is 10367207. Cheers.



Yeah, no worries… My order number is 10367238. 
The tracking number they gave me is still not coming up on 17track.com.
Also, it’s really annoying how ZL added the bit on their website when you log in, where you not only need a username and password, but also a ridiculously long random string of letters and numbers to prove you’re human. How come some websites just have a button that says “I’m human” and you just have to click it, but on the ZL website you have to key in something like Kz007fSH3didnu74jnswTtTqQe4 each time. What exactly does that prove anyway? Isn’t the password enough for security, like for instance banks’ websites where they hold potentially thousands of dollars (or in my case, several cents)? /rant.


----------



## TCY

Thanks for sharing.

As far as I know 17 track doesn't seem to update any tracking info happening in China. A while back I had to ship my M43 back to replace the switch and was using 17track to check the parcel's status. For weeks it says that it was on its way to China without any update, even after the parcel has arrived. So.. maybe it's already on its way to you.

I believe that the code thing is a rather out dated system to filter bots that was programmed to register/login repeatedly or something like that. There are other websites that use words in weird shape so bots can't recognise them so they can't to what they are supposed to do. I could be wrong..


----------



## noboneshotdog

Mine is #10367202 but US shipping is on a whole other schedule it seems. I'm guessing it will arrive some time this week if the stars align. :naughty:


----------



## Rawk

samgab said:


> Yeah, no worries… My order number is 10367238.
> The tracking number they gave me is still not coming up on 17track.com.
> Also, it’s really annoying how ZL added the bit on their website when you log in, where you not only need a username and password, but also a ridiculously long random string of letters and numbers to prove you’re human. How come some websites just have a button that says “I’m human” and you just have to click it, but on the ZL website you have to key in something like Kz007fSH3didnu74jnswTtTqQe4 each time. What exactly does that prove anyway? Isn’t the password enough for security, like for instance banks’ websites where they hold potentially thousands of dollars (or in my case, several cents)? /rant.



I'm using FireFox and let it save my ZL password. When I go to 'My Account' then my name and password is already written.
Just click 'Login to my account' and ignore the captcha - it works for me !


----------



## TCY

Some update here about my shipping. Since me and samgab exchanged our order #, I have found that my order is supposed to be shipped out before samgab's per ZL's shipping method. I emailed ZL about this and they got back to me within (I think) a day. 

Here' the response:

_I did some research, that's our mistake. EMS/DHL were put aside, and our shipping dept, missed a few.
They will be shipped in about 24 hours. We apologize about this mistake.
We issued 10.00USD back to you, but give you free upgrade shipping to DHL.

_So it seems like that some of the international priority shippings are overlooked and treated as normal parcels if I'm not misinterpreting. Now I expect to have my light by Friday (if DHL is super fast) and there's 10 more dollars in my pocket. 

TLDR: 10/10 customer service by ZL, I was kinda expecting that they would just ignore this but they took their time and tracked down the problem.


----------



## roger-roger

TCY said:


> Some update here about my shipping. Since me and samgab exchanged our order #, I have found that my order is supposed to be shipped out before samgab's per ZL's shipping method. I emailed ZL about this and they got back to me within (I think) a day.
> 
> Here' the response:
> 
> _I did some research, that's our mistake. EMS/DHL were put aside, and our shipping dept, missed a few.
> They will be shipped in about 24 hours. We apologize about this mistake.
> We issued 10.00USD back to you, but give you free upgrade shipping to DHL.
> 
> _So it seems like that some of the international priority shippings are overlooked and treated as normal parcels if I'm not misinterpreting. Now I expect to have my light by Friday (if DHL is super fast) and there's 10 more dollars in my pocket.
> 
> TLDR: 10/10 customer service by ZL, I was kinda expecting that they would just ignore this but they took their time and tracked down the problem.




Excellent!


----------



## snowlover91

That's awesome customer service by ZL and a great way for them to take care of the customer! You better take lots of pictures and give us a thorough review if you receive it first!!


----------



## F89

TCY said:


> Some update here about my shipping. Since me and samgab exchanged our order #, I have found that my order is supposed to be shipped out before samgab's per ZL's shipping method. I emailed ZL about this and they got back to me within (I think) a day.
> 
> Here' the response:
> 
> _I did some research, that's our mistake. EMS/DHL were put aside, and our shipping dept, missed a few.
> They will be shipped in about 24 hours. We apologize about this mistake.
> We issued 10.00USD back to you, but give you free upgrade shipping to DHL.
> 
> _So it seems like that some of the international priority shippings are overlooked and treated as normal parcels if I'm not misinterpreting. Now I expect to have my light by Friday (if DHL is super fast) and there's 10 more dollars in my pocket.
> 
> TLDR: 10/10 customer service by ZL, I was kinda expecting that they would just ignore this but they took their time and tracked down the problem.



What the?
My order is 4 digits behind yours, I paid for EMS and live in the same country and not a word.
Not such great customer service for me. Perhaps you got sorted because you rattled some cages?
Anyway, email sent. I want mine sent and a DHL upgrade with $10 refund should be on the cards too I reckon. One in, all in I say.


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> That's awesome customer service by ZL and a great way for them to take care of the customer! You better take lots of pictures and give us a thorough review if you receive it first!!



Will do


----------



## TCY

F89 said:


> What the?
> My order is 4 digits behind yours, I paid for EMS and live in the same country and not a word.
> Not such great customer service for me. Perhaps you got sorted because you rattled some cages?
> Anyway, email sent. I want mine sent and a DHL upgrade with $10 refund should be on the cards too I reckon. One in, all in I say.



Yes, I bugged them for quite a bit. Since they said "missed a few", I bet they already right the wrongs by shipping your light today as well.

They might not give you the free upgrade though.. the $10 is for the DHL upgrade I paid for two days ago.


----------



## TCY

Shipping notice received an hour ago.


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> Shipping notice received an hour ago.



:thumbsup: Since it just shipped how long will it probably take to receive it? Thursday or Friday maybe?


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> :thumbsup: Since it just shipped how long will it probably take to receive it? Thursday or Friday maybe?



I'm not exactly sure how postal services estimate their delivery times. ZL page says 3-4 days for DHL, but do these days include the day they got the parcel and the day the parcel is being delivered? If yes I'm hoping to get mine by Thursday


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> I'm not exactly sure how postal services estimate their delivery times. ZL page says 3-4 days for DHL, but do these days include the day they got the parcel and the day the parcel is being delivered? If yes I'm hoping to get mine by Thursday



I know here in the US they usually quote me 2-3 days for our priority mail which means once it's shipped I get my package in 2 days or 3 if our postal service is a little slow.


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> I know here in the US they usually quote me 2-3 days for our priority mail which means once it's shipped I get my package in 2 days or 3 if our postal service is a little slow.



Expect to get some beamshots in three days then


----------



## samgab

TCY said:


> Some update here about my shipping. Since me and samgab exchanged our order #, I have found that my order is supposed to be shipped out before samgab's per ZL's shipping method. I emailed ZL about this and they got back to me within (I think) a day.
> 
> Here' the response:
> 
> _I did some research, that's our mistake. EMS/DHL were put aside, and our shipping dept, missed a few.
> They will be shipped in about 24 hours. We apologize about this mistake.
> We issued 10.00USD back to you, but give you free upgrade shipping to DHL.
> 
> _So it seems like that some of the international priority shippings are overlooked and treated as normal parcels if I'm not misinterpreting. Now I expect to have my light by Friday (if DHL is super fast) and there's 10 more dollars in my pocket.
> 
> TLDR: 10/10 customer service by ZL, I was kinda expecting that they would just ignore this but they took their time and tracked down the problem.



Wow, that's excellent customer service, and response to your enquiry. I'd wondered about that discrepancy, with my order number being further down in the the queue than yours, but I was fairly sure you were going to email them, having seen how ...er... proactive, shall we say, you've been in regards to this flashlight.


----------



## F89

TCY said:


> Yes, I bugged them for quite a bit. Since they said "missed a few", I bet they already right the wrongs by shipping your light today as well.
> 
> They might not give you the free upgrade though.. the $10 is for the DHL upgrade I paid for two days ago.



Yeah, no free upgrade for me. They did however send it and say sorry for the delay.


----------



## F89

samgab said:


> Wow, that's excellent customer service, and response to your enquiry. I'd wondered about that discrepancy, with my order number being further down in the the queue than yours, but I was fairly sure you were going to email them, having seen how ...er... proactive, shall we say, you've been in regards to this flashlight.



I'm surprised to see that people are so impressed by their customer service. I'm not saying it's bad but perhaps these days with faceless internet sales we have come to expect less? I'd say they have done what's expected in reasonable business, no more, no less.
Not trying to have a go at anyone here, just thought it was worth a single comment and on that note I'm sure ZL are way better than the masses of mass produced lights.


----------



## Rawk

My order is still processing... :candle:


----------



## markr6

FYI - Just updated the webpage status from Pre-order to Back Order. No big deal; but it's just the most exciting part of my day, sadly.


----------



## Koam

My order just changed to processing this morning.


----------



## roger-roger

F89 said:


> I'm surprised to see that people are so impressed by their customer service. I'm not saying it's bad but perhaps these days with faceless internet sales we have come to expect less? I'd say they have done what's expected in reasonable business, no more, no less.
> Not trying to have a go at anyone here, just thought it was worth a single comment and on that note I'm sure ZL are way better than the masses of mass produced lights.




Agree. What you bring up in your post, is in a sense a sad commentary of how consumers allow online businesses to operate. That said Zebralight has its faults and you'll never see me apologizing for them, but their record has gained my confidence.


----------



## TCY

I have different levels of expectation for different industries when it comes to customer services. For a rather small online business like ZL, their customer service is impressive enough for me.

Buuuuuuuuut I digress. According to DHL page my flashlight has "Departed Facility in EAST CHINA AREA - CHINA, PEOPLES REPUBLIC" at 2:43am China time and has an estimated delivery date of tomorrow.

First guy to get this light on CPF? :devil:


----------



## carl

I wonder if someone can mod it:
1) shave the dome for more throw
2) replace the frosted lens with a clear lens for more output


----------



## F89

carl said:


> I wonder if someone can mod it:
> 1) shave the dome for more throw
> 2) replace the frosted lens with a clear lens for more output



And ruin the elements that make this light what it is?
The only reason I bought this light is for hopefully a nice beam, tint and CRI. Apart from the neat little design its housed in.
I don't buy Chinese lights anymore and if I do I mod them, and that's usually done to lights I bought previously, so for me to buy this is an exception for me.
You'd be better off just getting the XHP35 Hi model based on the above.


----------



## twistedraven

The floody beam is the only reason why I'm not getting this one. There are other lights on the market utilizing optics instead of reflectors that can achieve high output-high CRI from very small form-factors, as the optics allow quite a bit of length to be shaved off. Of course they don't have Zebralight UI and PID, but at the same time I wish this one had the classic Zebralight beam pattern that was a mix of throw-flood, as I just find it to be more useful for the majority of tasks.

Really what I want is just the XHP-35 HI model to have High CRI as an option.


----------



## F89

twistedraven said:


> The floody beam is the only reason why I'm not getting this one. There are other lights on the market utilizing optics instead of reflectors that can achieve high output-high CRI from very small form-factors, as the optics allow quite a bit of length to be shaved off. Of course they don't have Zebralight UI and PID, but at the same time I wish this one had the classic Zebralight beam pattern that was a mix of throw-flood, as I just find it to be more useful for the majority of tasks.
> 
> Really what I want is just the XHP-35 HI model to have High CRI as an option.



I have a heap of lights that do just that including a Nichia 219 triple, 219 mules and XPG3 HiCri over driven behind a Ledil boom so while I didn't exactly need this light I got it anyway because I'm a mad collector.
The floody beam, tint and CRI are exactly why I bought this light but I can understand why people are after a HiCRI version of something like the XHP35 Hi model, I'd also like one I'm sure.


----------



## StorminMatt

F89 said:


> I have a heap of lights that do just that including a Nichia 219 triple, 219 mules and XPG3 HiCri over driven behind a Ledil boom so while I didn't exactly need this light I got it anyway because I'm a mad collector.
> The floody beam, tint and CRI are exactly why I bought this light but I can understand why people are after a HiCRI version of something like the XHP35 Hi model, I'd also like one I'm sure.



Speaking of these other lights, it will be interesting to see how this light compares to the Astrolux S41. Admittedly, the Zebralight will certainly trump the Astrolux when it comes to build quality and UI. But given that CRI, maximum output, color temperature, and beam pattern are all fairly similar between the two, it will be interesting to see how they compare when it comes to output.


----------



## Rawk

Unfortunately, my order will be shipped in about three weeks, says ZL. :mecry:
I hope it's worth the waiting...


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

I GOT MY LIGHT!!!! 

Nah, still processing. :devil:



StorminMatt said:


> Speaking of these other lights, it will be interesting to see how this light compares to the Astrolux S41. Admittedly, the Zebralight will certainly trump the Astrolux when it comes to build quality and UI. But given that CRI, maximum output, color temperature, and beam pattern are all fairly similar between the two, it will be interesting to see how they compare when it comes to output.



I'm wondering the EXACT same thing. I love my S41, but maximum is fun only until I start to smell my finger flesh cooking. Curious if Zebralight can take it one or two steps further.


----------



## StandardBattery

StorminMatt said:


> Speaking of these other lights, it will be interesting to see how this light compares to the Astrolux S41. Admittedly, the Zebralight will certainly trump the Astrolux when it comes to build quality and UI. But given that CRI, maximum output, color temperature, and beam pattern are all fairly similar between the two, it will be interesting to see how they compare when it comes to output.


I don't know but, I quite like the Manker E14 (S41 equivalent right?) and I quit like it (bought it only for 18350 compatibility, but surprised I like it so much). The beam is nice, and bright of course, the UI is usable for me, the clip is nice, color and finish is nice. It did come with bone dry threads for the head the squeaked like crazy, have not seen something like that for a few years. Otherwise I'm happy with the quality of mine, leds all match and are really nice. A heavy little thing, but that's good given the max output. 

I bought some extra clips for this going to try them on another light that is hard to clip equip.

I'm thinking this zebralight though might just be a great EDC with it's flood beam and it has enough power I think to have enough throw when needed.


----------



## recDNA

Rawk said:


> Unfortunately, my order will be shipped in about three weeks, says ZL. :mecry:
> I hope it's worth the waiting...


Very anxious to read reviews. I worry the frosted glass will reduce apparent output below Nichia 219c


----------



## DMS1970

Flashlight Junkie said:


> I GOT MY LIGHT!!!!
> 
> Nah, still processing. :devil:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering the EXACT same thing. I love my S41, but maximum is fun only until I start to smell my finger flesh cooking. Curious if Zebralight can take it one or two steps further.



i must be the only one that didn't care for the S41. Too many presses, half presses, forward mode, back mode, blah blah blah. I'm pretty much in bed with zebralight and Olight due to the similar UI. The only question is HOW BRIGHT WILL IT BE?


----------



## TCY

Just got mine. Compared to my nichia 219B lights it has a slight green/yellowish tint. I'll take beamshots tonight.


----------



## StandardBattery

DMS1970 said:


> i must be the only one that didn't care for the S41. Too many presses, half presses, forward mode, back mode, blah blah blah. I'm pretty much in bed with zebralight and Olight due to the similar UI. The only question is HOW BRIGHT WILL IT BE?


I'm not in love with the UI (yes Zebralight is one of the best), but I find it usable. my reverse click is so short to disconnect I just click it on and can be up a couple level very quickly or at max. some times I'll miss the max, but i rarely want to go from off max anyway. It's not what I would use as an EDC when I have a Zebra light and a few others, but it works better than many I've tried lately, mainly because once clicked on the reverse click is so sensitive I can quickly change levels. But really I bought it because it could use an 18350 battery and it looks pretty good.


----------



## StandardBattery

TCY said:


> Just got mine. Compared to my nichia 219B lights it has a slight green/yellowish tint. I'll take beamshots tonight.


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> Just got mine. Compared to my nichia 219B lights it has a slight green/yellowish tint. I'll take beamshots tonight.



Anxiously awaiting a thorough first impression post with detailed thoughts on the light! First one to get it on CPF gets that honor


----------



## F89

TCY said:


> Just got mine. Compared to my nichia 219B lights it has a slight green/yellowish tint. I'll take beamshots tonight.



This is what I was hoping wouldn't happen but I'm not surprised. Cree has a long way to go when it comes to CRI and tint compared to Nichia.
I recently played with some 5000K Hi CRI XPG3 and they were horrible behind a big smooth reflector but worked great with the Ledil boom which is a very forgiving reflector for smoothing out tint and beam.
I was hoping the frosted lens would smooth out tint irregularities as they generally help.
Anyway, I'll see for myself soon enough.


----------



## F89

recDNA said:


> Very anxious to read reviews. I worry the frosted glass will reduce apparent output below Nichia 219c



I'm not sure what comparison you're trying to make but any light with a frosted lens will reduce apparent output. 
A focused beam always looks brighter regardless of how it's created even if the focused beam has less lumens in it than the floody.
The beam from this light will be what it is, not what people want it to be so it seems. I guess the call here is for something like a Hi CRI XHP35 Hi behind a clear lens.
This light is probably better compared to a triple optic, Ledil boom or any other relatively small reflector based light with a large LED and frosted lens.


----------



## Wendee

TCY said:


> Just got mine. Compared to my nichia 219B lights it has a slight green/yellowish tint. I'll take beamshots tonight.



Congrats on receiving the first one! :twothumbs
Like everyone, I look forward to your impression and beamshots.


----------



## roger-roger

recDNA said:


> Very anxious to read reviews. I worry the frosted glass will reduce apparent output below Nichia 219c




Not even close. The frosted lens gives a small and practically un-noticeable percentage of intensity loss, whereas the Nichia is significant in that area.


----------



## oKtosiTe

roger-roger said:


> Not even close. The frosted lens gives a small and practically un-noticeable percentage of intensity loss, whereas the Nichia is significant in that area.


Perhaps grandparent was talking about candela (intensity), not lumens (flux).


----------



## Rawk

TCY said:


> Just got mine. Compared to my nichia 219B lights it has a slight green/yellowish tint. I'll take beamshots tonight.


Congratulations ! I'd also love to see some outdoor beamshots.
But if it really has a greenish tint, i'll cancel my order.  I was expecting a pure white beam...
Also sold my old Thrunite Neutron 2A because of greenish tint, I don't like it.


----------



## TCY

Rawk said:


> Congratulations ! I'd also love to see some outdoor beamshots.
> But if it really has a greenish tint, i'll cancel my order.  I was expecting a pure white beam...
> Also sold my old Thrunite Neutron 2A because of greenish tint, I don't like it.



Don't cancel the order, you might win the tint lottery and end up with a pure white LED!


----------



## Rawk

Why must there be a lottery for that ? 
I never win anything, so probably will receive the greenest of them all !

:laughing:


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

TCY said:


> Just got mine. Compared to my nichia 219B lights it has a slight green/yellowish tint. I'll take beamshots tonight.



Would someone please check on TCY? We need those beamshots. Thanks.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Flashlight Junkie said:


> Would someone please check on TCY? We need those beamshots. Thanks.




He started a new thread with lots of pics and beam shots. There us a lot of discussion too. I think it is titled SC600MKIII FD PLUS FIRST IMPRESSIONS.


----------



## NICSAK

He has a thread full of pics


----------



## NICSAK

Noboneshotdog beat me


----------



## Wendee

Flashlight Junkie said:


> Would someone please check on TCY? We need those beamshots. Thanks.



He started a new thread yesterday (beamshots etc): http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...600Fd-Mk-III-Plus-first-impression-(pic-heavy) 

Update: Wow, three posts before I could even post this. You guys are fast!


----------



## noboneshotdog

NICSAK said:


> Noboneshotdog beat me




Winner winner chicken dinner.


----------



## NICSAK

noboneshotdog said:


> Winner winner chicken dinner.



[emoji23]


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

noboneshotdog said:


> He started a new thread with lots of pics and beam shots. There us a lot of discussion too. I think it is titled SC600MKIII FD PLUS FIRST IMPRESSIONS.



Thank you!!


----------



## markr6

Still no ship notice...I'm dying to try this out! Sounds like another week maybe.


----------



## noboneshotdog

markr6 said:


> Still no ship notice...I'm dying to try this out! Sounds like another week maybe.



You may want to check again. I just got my shipping notice. I'm a US resident. I paid the extra 3 99 for priority shipping. Not sure if that made a difference or not.


----------



## markr6

JUST SHIPPED!!


----------



## staticx57

Got my shipping notice today as well. Not expedited do I bet you get yours first even though they are shipping the same time


----------



## noboneshotdog

staticx57 said:


> Got my shipping notice today as well. Not expedited do I bet you get yours first even though they are shipping the same time



Supposedly mine will be here this Wednesday according to usps tracking.


----------



## noboneshotdog

staticx57 said:


> Got my shipping notice today as well. Not expedited do I bet you get yours first even though they are shipping the same time



Supposedly mine will be here this Wednesday according to usps tracking.


----------



## staticx57

noboneshotdog said:


> Supposedly mine will be here this Wednesday according to usps tracking.


Mine is tracking for Friday so thats where the expedited comes from I guess.


----------



## snowlover91

Mine has shipped and scheduled for Wednesday delivery! So excited!


----------



## markr6

Thursday for me since I'm in the USPS dead zone (pretty much always 3-days out even if it's going a few hundred miles). Good enough! 

The reviews so far really got my hopes down, but we'll see.


----------



## Thujone

order #10367352, any chance I am getting close to shipping?


----------



## noboneshotdog

Thujone said:


> order #10367352, any chance I am getting close to shipping?



Mine should be here Wednesday and my order # is 10367202. 

I'm pretty positive I ordered within the 1st hour of it going on sale though.


----------



## CoherentRays

Thujone said:


> order #10367352, any chance I am getting close to shipping?



I ordered mine with expedited shipping on Aug 28th and it's order #10367275. It still shows as "processing" on my account page at ZL.

Ed


----------



## liteboy

Aggressor said:


> Amazon is infested with fakes nowadays.



Was gonna say the same. Batteries and data storage cards


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

My status now says "New (Shipping From China)" so I asked Zebralight if my light has shipped. This is what I get back...

"This order will be shipped in about two to three weeks. Sorry for the waiting. 
Please let us know if you don't want to wait, and cancel for refund.

Sincerely, 
ZebraLight, Inc."

My order number is 10367646 and I ordered on September 11. 
Two to three weeks away??? Does anyone have an order number close to mine and their light has shipped? Thx.


----------



## fnsooner

It looks like I made the cut. Mine is supposed to be delivered Thursday. Order #10367246.


----------



## twistedraven

Hey guys, it's just a flashlight-- probably everybody's 5th or 10th flashlight.


----------



## Offgridled

twistedraven said:


> Hey guys, it's just a flashlight-- probably everybody's 5th or 10th flashlight.


That's funny


----------



## fnsooner

twistedraven said:


> Hey guys, it's just a flashlight-- probably everybody's 5th or 10th flashlight.



Yes, but this is the one.


----------



## StandardBattery

twistedraven said:


> Hey guys, it's just a flashlight-- probably everybody's 5th or 10th flashlight.


.. or 100th ... or .... _it's logarithmic
_


fnsooner said:


> Yes, but this is the one.


Every one is "the one" until you don't visit CPF any more or you become a spectator and you don't even mind missing an episode or two unless if Hal was in it.


----------



## F89

Got mine about 4 hours ago.
The tint is very white at first glance but does exhibit a bit of green. As TCY noted, maximum output is the whitest and cleanest. The CRI seems good.
The beam is very wide and floody. Doing a beam slice against a wall shows that it almost hits 180 degrees.
Very compact and well finished but the little bump for the lanyard is a bit annoying in hand.
I'll test it more tonight to get a better idea of the beam, tint and CRI. I'll probably compare it with a couple of my other lights which should group well, 6P with triple 219A and Prometheus alpha with XPG3 5000K Hi CRI.

After a bit of a play with Fd plus in darkness I was able to assess the beam and tint better.
I see green but it's a pretty even tint and white enough. It doesn't render whites as well as the other two lights I compared it to nor did it beat them in CRI in my opinion. I'd probably rank it third.
This isn't the grail of tint and CRI.
It is however pretty good, in the eyes of many it will probably be quite impressive.
The beam is super floody which makes it a fairly niche light. I like it but I wouldn't say it's general purpose.
The PID on H1 kicks in hard and fast, which it needs to so it's pretty well a burst mode.
Overall the Fd plus is a pretty impressive little light which for its size is impressive in it's self. Good tint and CRI with a smooth beam. I think it will probably disappoint the unwary though.
No prize for guessing which light won in tint and CRI.


----------



## snowlover91

One thing I've found with ZL preorders. If you don't order the day of release, and quickly once it's listed on the website, the light will usually get shipped in a secondary batch. Zebralight seems to make their lifts in "waves" or batches every 2-3 weeks. I've seen initial preorders that get shipped up to 6 weeks after the first orders began shipping due to high demand and not being in on the first few batches to go out. USPS says mine won't arrive until Thursday now


----------



## Koam

#10367348 8/31 Processing


----------



## markr6

Mine still says Thursday, but not much activity. USPS is slow to make updates, but still I'm worried I'll get the "Delivery updated to Friday, October 7" message soon.


----------



## LumenKing1

I am going to get the SF UM2 Ultra instead. Based off of one review.


----------



## DMS1970

LumenKing1 said:


> I am going to get the SF UM2 Ultra instead. Based off of one review.



I don't see the parallel. Except for the TIR lens, Jetbeam made a light just like that (600L, rotary brightness ring) in 2007. At 2" longer I wouldn't put it in the same category at all. If you want a great light with a TIR, but are tint fussy, have Vihn modify an olight S1 or S2 to your preferred LED. I prefer the S2 beam to my SC63, but the 63 wins in every other category.

For the cost of the UM2, you could buy 2 600FD and an Olight S2...


----------



## LumenKing1

DMS1970 said:


> I don't see the parallel. Except for the TIR lens, Jetbeam made a light just like that (600L, rotary brightness ring) in 2007. At 2" longer I wouldn't put it in the same category at all. If you want a great light with a TIR, but are tint fussy, have Vihn modify an olight S1 or S2 to your preferred LED. I prefer the S2 beam to my SC63, but the 63 wins in every other category.
> 
> For the cost of the UM2, you could buy 2 600FD and an Olight S2...



I just like the SF better. I prefer quality over quantity. The SF looks to be a higher quality SF. My motto is you usually get what you pay for unless it's a Ford, Chevy or Dodge.


----------



## AvidHiker

LOL, apples and oranges. Zebralight quality, IMO, is quite comparable to Surefire.

Ordered 9/9 and no update yet...


----------



## Koam

My order just changed from Processing to New. Also got an email saying they received my order. Not sure if this means my order will be shipped soon or it was reset and the wait starts again.

EDIT: 20 minutes later it now shows Shipped. Also just got an email conformation.


----------



## snowlover91

Well today was quite a surprise; usps tracking had showed it still hadn't left Texas and I went out on my porch to discover my Zebralght sitting right there! Not sure what happened with the tracking lol usps does crazy things sometimes. Anyways here are my initial thoughts.

1. No battery rattle, ncr18650ga fits perfectly. 
2. Buttery smooth threads :thumbsup:
3. Heats up decently on the turbo mode. I would compare it to the SC62w I have in that regard. I can't notice the PID as it steps down which is good. 
4. The big question everybody wants to know, how is the tint? On my sample maybe I got lucky but instead of a greenish tint it is more of a slight golden tint. Think of a nichia but with a more subtle golden tint. It's more noticeable on the medium and high settings, the turbo mode is basically a neautral white with no perceptible green, gold or any other tint. Basically a pure white. It's very pleasing to the eyes and a keeper for me, it exceeded my expectations! Hopefully this means others will also receive samples like this, no hint of green in mine!


----------



## markr6

Glad you like the tint! I'm hoping for the best!! I should have it first thing tomorrow.


----------



## DMS1970

Are these lights coming with a battery like my MKIII and SC63 did?


----------



## markr6

DMS1970 said:


> Are these lights coming with a battery like my MKIII and SC63 did?



I think that was just a one-time deal. I can't seem to remember the reason...my memory is going! They couldn't get the NCR18650GA in stock or something on their site?


----------



## StandardBattery

DMS1970 said:


> Are these lights coming with a battery like my MKIII and SC63 did?


At least in the US these lights don't come with a battery unless you order that. As far as I know that has been true for a long time at Zebralight for all their lights. Maybe sometimes they have a special offer or you got lucky.


----------



## markr6

I remember now. It was the NCR18650*BF* they included for a short time when the new pogo pins came out. SC63 and MKIIIs. Pretty sure it had to do with them not being able to get the NCR18650GA in stock at the time.


----------



## StandardBattery

OK a few minutes of playing while I charge up a new GA for it. 

Very nice dark anodizing, now the body matches the recent tail caps they have been shipping. It's perfect I hope they stick with this anodizing now.

Does not seem quite as bright as I thought it might be, but it's daytime and I need to compare it more with other lights. You do feel it getting warm on High in your hands pretty quick, and not just at the head. It's pushing the thermals for the body on high. 

The Beam is beautiful like you would expect from a diffuser lens. There is some variation in intensity on the beam you can notice at like 6ft, but I don't expect to notice much if it's not on a white all. Zebra does not have the best diffusion, but it's a good balance between transmission and diffusion.

I think the levels programmed at the factory are good. Seem pretty much the same visually as their other lights, the separation is good or maybe better than some of them.

Mine is definitely a keeper (well I generally keep all of my Zebralights), so what I mean is the tint is perfect. Even at the lower outputs where the color temperature drops a bit it all looks great. It looks to me when my pocket is big enough this could replace my SC62w as my EDC. I'll want to compare them outside first and with the Mk III HI to see whats-what. The clean nice beam though is exactly what I want in an EDC and H2 seems perfect for my EDC level. Actually M1 is a pretty good level with more runtime, but the color temp is what I want indoors for my EDC and it's only 1 click. 

Can't wait for the dark!


----------



## snowlover91

I forgot to mention mine does have dark anodization as well, I like it better than the light grey of some of my other Zebralights. The tint is exactly what I was hoping for; a clean tint with a hint of gold in it! I can't wait for dark so I can test it out better.


----------



## CoherentRays

CoherentRays said:


> I ordered mine with expedited shipping on Aug 28th and it's order #10367275. It still shows as "processing" on my account page at ZL.
> 
> Ed


And I just now got my shipping notice. It might arrive Saturday or Monday depending on the mail service. Time to put one of my new GAs on the charger. 

Ed


----------



## TCY

:thumbsup:Congrats! Good to know, perfect tint for you！

BTW guys could you please post your "tint review" on the first impression thread as well? It seems like some people are discouraged by the greenish tint on my unit and have decided to not get one. I don't want them to miss out. Thanks!

p.s. I'm not proud of it, but I have returned mine for a replacement. Under normal circumstances I would just sell it but with the cherry picked LED info I got before pre-ordering I felt like I deserve a better tint. The CS guy at ZL said that he made a note to their shipping department (or whichever department that handles replacement shipping) to pick a neutral tint replacement so fingers crossed!


----------



## F89

TCY said:


> :thumbsup:Congrats! Good to know, perfect tint for you！
> 
> BTW guys could you please post your "tint review" on the first impression thread as well? It seems like some people are discouraged by the greenish tint on my unit and have decided to not get one. I don't want them to miss out. Thanks!
> 
> p.s. I'm not proud of it, but I have returned mine for a replacement. Under normal circumstances I would just sell it but with the cherry picked LED info I got before pre-ordering I felt like I deserve a better tint. The CS guy at ZL said that he made a note to their shipping department (or whichever department that handles replacement shipping) to pick a neutral tint replacement so fingers crossed!



I have a feeling that yours isn't unusual although some of your photos did look pretty green.
I see green in mine but I'm sure many would say they see no tint or they see another colour which I can understand. At any rate I don't think there will be a big margin between a good one and bad one and I think if so I got one of the good ones.


----------



## F89

snowlover91 said:


> Well today was quite a surprise; usps tracking had showed it still hadn't left Texas and I went out on my porch to discover my Zebralght sitting right there! Not sure what happened with the tracking lol usps does crazy things sometimes. Anyways here are my initial thoughts.
> 
> 1. No battery rattle, ncr18650ga fits perfectly.
> 2. Buttery smooth threads :thumbsup:
> 3. Heats up decently on the turbo mode. I would compare it to the SC62w I have in that regard. I can't notice the PID as it steps down which is good.
> 4. The big question everybody wants to know, how is the tint? On my sample maybe I got lucky but instead of a greenish tint it is more of a slight golden tint. Think of a nichia but with a more subtle golden tint. It's more noticeable on the medium and high settings, the turbo mode is basically a neautral white with no perceptible green, gold or any other tint. Basically a pure white. It's very pleasing to the eyes and a keeper for me, it exceeded my expectations! Hopefully this means others will also receive samples like this, no hint of green in mine!



Mine rattles (when shaken hard enough) with an NCR18650GA when shaken but not as much as it does with a VTC5. I can also notice the PID, it kind of pulses every level as it ramps, it's not smooth. For example if I tail stand it I can see it ramp down levels then if I pick it up and hold the bezel I can see it ramp back up as my hand sucks up the heat.
I'm thinking that held side by side that our lights would exhibit the same tint and it's coming down to different perspective.


----------



## TCY

F89 said:


> I have a feeling that yours isn't unusual although some of your photos did look pretty green.
> I see green in mine but I'm sure many would say they see no tint or they see gold which I can understand. At any rate I don't think there will be a big margin between a good one nd bad one and I think if so I got one of the good ones.



I think you are lucky enough. Given other light sources are present, mine produces a horrible green tint, even on turbo. Since I use my lights mostly indoors, I had to return it. TBH if this has a good tint it's definitely a keeper.


----------



## fnsooner

Mine arrived today too. It was delivered to my shop so all I had time for was to pop in the battery that was in my 63 and shine it against the wall. Very awesome. 

Mine also has the darker anodizing. I'll take it for a spin around the block tonight when it gets dark. 



TCY said:


> BTW guys could you please post your "tint review" on the first impression thread as well? It seems like some people are discouraged by the greenish tint on my unit and have decided to not get one. I don't want them to miss out. Thanks!


Will do, after I get a chance to evaluate it a little more.


----------



## F89

TCY said:


> I think you are lucky enough. Given other light sources are present, mine produces a horrible green tint, even on turbo. Since I use my lights mostly indoors, I had to return it. TBH if this has a good tint it's definitely a keeper.



That doesn't sound good. Mine is subtle, not horrible and as mentioned many would really like it but I'm a tint snob of a high level.
Good luck with the next one, my guess is you'll get a decent one.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Got mine today too. Compared to the rosy color of my Armytek Wizard Pro V3 XPL this definitely seems green. 

When comparing it by itself or against a CW emitter it looks neutral and pleasing to the eye. 

As others have said they are probably all similar, but perception is the main difference.

Edit :

I just asked my wife what color tint she thought she saw. I asked her yellow green orange pink gold? She sees yellow and gold.


----------



## StandardBattery

Did a short indoor and outdoor test now that it's quite dark. The flood beam really is great. I'm pretty certain it will be my EDC.

Not much to say, but it's still not quite as bright as I thought it would be. I have to look at the official specs, but my H600Fw MkIII XHP35 seems brighter both indoors and out. Now it could be that there is more flood with the Plus because of the larger reflector to begin with but the I will have to do a white wall test now to confirm as they are both frosted lenses and wide flood. 

No problem with the MkIII Hi throwing further. The wide flood of the Plus will make it less discrete outdoors.

A couple more tests later with other lights I forgot to pull the Manker out of my pocket for a comparison.


----------



## scintillator

Looks like they are in stock now at zebralight dot com:devil:

Nope I was wrong


----------



## StandardBattery

Definitely the XHP50 behind the frosted lens on the Plus is has a more evenly diffused light than even the XHP35 in the 600Fw, even though they both may radiate with a similar angle to the beam. This makes the light really nice from the Plus, it seems almost addicting when I compare it to other lights. 

Did some tests comparing it to the quad Nichia in the Manker E14. I would lay money that without knowing which was which and just going my color one could not reliably identify which was which. Mine are that close. The Zebra has a nicer more even beam though that the quad Nichia, wish I had my photo computer running so I could make some decent pics. I tested on common object, subtle paint fading, lots of art work, and the conclusion was the same in each case. My Manker though is not a rosy Nichia like in my Ti Tool. The Plus is also not as smooth a diffusion as say my McGizmo Sundrop (gold standard) and it is certainly more green in comparison to that, but my Sundrop is on the warm side and white is more ivory, so my plus seem definitely more neutral. The TIP CRI is also more rosy, but ever so slightly less so than my Ti Tool. So we are certainly not getting rosy neutral, but I don't know if any one knows the spec for the Nichia in the E14 (probably not all the same though), but my copy is very close to my Plus.


----------



## StandardBattery

Throw... well there isn't really any. With the diffused light even what light does make it down range is not very intense. The SC62w can out throw it, and so can the quad Nichia in the E14 slightly. It does not have the raw power of the Klarus G20 which is fairly floody, but using an OP reflector with an XHP70 and twice the size (still compact). This means this light is great indoors or outdoors for near field and combined with something that has a bit of throw it would be a great combination. I can see this being used on bikes for the the near field, and another light for distance.


----------



## TCY

In terms of throw, I did a quick experiment indoor before I returned my Plus. 329lm on SC62W gives about the same beam intensity as 1500lm on the Plus, so really don't expect much throw out of it.


----------



## oKtosiTe

noboneshotdog said:


> I just asked my wife what color tint she thought she saw. I asked her yellow green orange pink gold? She sees yellow and gold.



Come on, the dress is clearly black and blue... wait what were we talking about?


----------



## markr6

I'll have mine in exactly 50 minutes!!! Topping off an 18650 right now, ready to try this thing out. I know this light is pretty much the *opposite *of a thrower as designed, so I'm not going to get hung up on throw. There isn't supposed to be any with a frosted lens and rather shallow, OP reflector! Better be a good tint, though!


----------



## StandardBattery

TCY said:


> In terms of throw, I did a quick experiment indoor before I returned my Plus. 329lm on SC62W gives about the same beam intensity as 1500lm on the Plus, so really don't expect much throw out of it.


Of course that would depend on the distance, but in general outside tests I found the 62w had noticeably more throw.

I tested the diffusion against my HDS Rotary with DCFix diffusion film and the Plus was better.

Love HDS lights but, the Plus with 18650 is only 2mm longer than the HDS with CR123A. This was the main reason I started using the SC6x series for EDC way back when, this combined with the low parasitic drain. The advantages of an 18650 light were just too great and Zebralight made the size a non issue for me with the 6x series. Being a flashaholic though I'd still like to have more HDS lights, if I can get a Neutral or Nichia one I will, and they have 18650 tubes now but they make the light too big. If they were a little more proactive they would have an 18350 tube for their lights to try to stay a little more competitive.

Just to note I have no battery rattle in my Plus with a Sanyo NCR18650GA.


----------



## markr6

GOOD TINT!!!! This thing is WHITE!!!!

Tint comparison. In person, it almost seems like they are reversed (L10 is actually a little more white). IT was just hard matching the brightness between the two. Both absolute winners though!







Quick dirty cellphone pic






Switch, battery fit, anodizing, everything is flawless! Thanks again Zebralight :twothumbs

Having said all that, I'm not sure I need a $100 flooder like this...so I can't say I'll keep it. We'll see.


----------



## TCY

DAMN that is white! Congrats! I wish my replacement unit has your tint


----------



## ven

Congrats Mark, looks an amazing little light...........so is it all flood like a mule type(no hot spot, just a wall of light ). Has to be a keeper, so useful for general uses


----------



## markr6

ven said:


> Congrats Mark, looks an amazing little light...........so is it all flood like a mule type(no hot spot, just a wall of light ). Has to be a keeper, so useful for general uses



Almost feels like a mule, very close at least.

Just way too floody for anything I would use. It was an easy decision to unload it 1 minute after use. Doing a ZL return this time since it was hardly used and has a great tint...so I don't feel bad about someone else getting it when they resell.

Also way too hot, too quick. That's to be expected, but since I would be using high often, it just doesn't make sense for me.


----------



## ven

Geez your hard to please :laughing: the perfect ZL!!!(well for me maybe)


----------



## Lumencrazy

markr6 said:


> Almost feels like a mule, very close at least.
> 
> Just way too floody for anything I would use. It was an easy decision to unload it 1 minute after use. Doing a ZL return this time since it was hardly used and has a great tint...so I don't feel bad about someone else getting it when they resell.
> 
> Also way too hot, too quick. That's to be expected, but since I would be using high often, it just doesn't make sense for me.



It did say frosten lens. Simple physics!


----------



## snowlover91

You should have sold it to a forum member since it has great tint! Your pic is what mine looks like also in real life, very nice tint and I actually enjoy the floody beam.


----------



## markr6

Lumencrazy said:


> It did say frosten lens. Simple physics!



Oh my god!! I've been saying that for months and you didn't get it! I know that but I still took a chance. I KNOW that, that's why I specifically wrote that out so people wouldn't come at with with smartass remarks...



markr6 said:


> I'll have mine in exactly 50 minutes!!! Topping off an 18650 right now, ready to try this thing out. I know this light is pretty much the *opposite *of a thrower as designed, so I'm not going to get hung up on throw. There isn't supposed to be any with a frosted lens and rather shallow, OP reflector! Better be a good tint, though!



No emphasis there, that's my original post as is. Sorry, I don't mean to call you out but the people at work do the exact same thing and it drives me INSANE! I can type out everything in clear bulletpoints covering everything from A-Z, and yet people still respond with questions I answered 5 times!! AHHH!!!  It's one of those days!

It's just not something I'll use. So it's gone.


----------



## StandardBattery

snowlover91 said:


> You should have sold it to a forum member since it has great tint! ...


+1


----------



## StandardBattery

oKtosiTe said:


> Come on, the dress is clearly black and blue... wait what were we talking about?


Much better to 'discuss' the color of a flashlight that that of a dress  There are some things you should just agree on


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> You should have sold it to a forum member since it has great tint! Your pic is what mine looks like also in real life, very nice tint and I actually enjoy the floody beam.



I already lost $4 on the shipping, plus another $3 or so to ship back. So I don't want to pay another $5 just to sign up to sell this here. Oh yeah then paypal gets some! Sorry!


----------



## roger-roger

markr6 said:


> Almost feels like a mule, very close at least.
> 
> Just way too floody for anything I would use. It was an easy decision to unload it 1 minute after use. Doing a ZL return this time since it was hardly used and has a great tint...so I don't feel bad about someone else getting it when they resell.
> 
> *Also way too hot, too quick*. That's to be expected, but since I would be using high often, it just doesn't make sense for me.




Perhaps H2 should have started at 1000Lm?


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

roger-roger said:


> Perhaps H2 should have started at 1000Lm?



Couldn't agree more. Maybe one day Zebralight will give us the power.


----------



## twistedraven

Figured you wouldn't keep it. Once you have the Mk.III HI, you really don't need any other light.

-decent pocketability 
-decent tint
-decent throw
-decent spill width
-decent output
-decent runtime

A jack of all trades really.


I'll wait until Zebralight figures out how to mitigate beam irregularities with a regular lens like Olight.


----------



## Charlie Hustle

twistedraven said:


> Figured you wouldn't keep it. Once you have the Mk.III HI, you really don't need any other light.



This might be the most hilarious comment I have seen on this forum in years.


----------



## markr6

twistedraven said:


> Figured you wouldn't keep it. Once you have the Mk.III HI, you really don't need any other light.
> 
> -decent pocketability
> -decent tint
> -decent throw
> -decent spill width
> -decent output
> -decent runtime
> 
> A jack of all trades really.



I never though so, but I'm coming around. I was always more of a flood/balanced beam person, but the HI is proving to do just about everything for me. It even made me pass on keeping the standard SC600w III, which is a great light BTW. I always figured I would get another one, but the HI always makes the cut when I go for a flashlight. I wouldn't give it too much credit for spill, but it does have _some._


----------



## dubliftment

TCY said:


> :thumbsup:Congrats! Good to know, perfect tint for you！
> 
> BTW guys could you please post your "tint review" on the first impression thread as well? It seems like some people are discouraged by the greenish tint on my unit and have decided to not get one. I don't want them to miss out. Thanks!
> 
> p.s. I'm not proud of it, but I have returned mine for a replacement. Under normal circumstances I would just sell it but with the cherry picked LED info I got before pre-ordering I felt like I deserve a better tint. The CS guy at ZL said that he made a note to their shipping department (or whichever department that handles replacement shipping) to pick a neutral tint replacement so fingers crossed!


ZL should have serial numbers on their lights like olight for example. I would like to make sure that I don't get the light you just returned because I am quite sensitive to greenish tints. I would return it on a dime as well, so maybe I should contact CS before they ship mine...


----------



## twistedraven

You could maybe take advantage of Zebralight's return policy and buy 3 lights, return 2 with the inferior tint.

Maybe if everybody did that then Zebralight would consider cherry-picking the LEDs again.


----------



## staticx57

I've never seen a cree "HI" light with "decent spill" trying to get spill from a cree "HI" defeats the purpose of it.


----------



## lampeDépêche

staticx57 said:


> I've never seen a cree "HI" light with "decent spill" trying to get spill from a cree "HI" defeats the purpose of it.



How much spill is "decent" spill? That's going to depend entirely on your applications, your environment, and your preferences.

But I would say that for my applications, environment, and preferences, the SC600 III HI has decent to good spill. It is not a pure thrower by any means; it has a combination of spot and spill.

One way to think about it: the ZL HI is generating almost 1200 lumens, and its hot-spot is less than 20k lux. That's a lot of output, and only modest throw. So you know the output is going somewhere other than the hot-spot. A fair bit of it is going into the spill. 

Sure, less spill than the ZL mules, or flooders, or even than the H600 line. It has a deeper reflector and smaller emitter than all of those. But still some spill, and to my mind I'd say a decent amount. 

But again--this is more a function of where I'm using it and what I'm using it for than anything else. If you want a mule, this ain't it.


----------



## twistedraven

The spill has a lot to do with the dimensions of the reflector. Going from a regular xhp-35 to the xhp-35 hi on a zebralight yields the exact same spill width, the only thing that's changed is the corona around the hotspot-- in which there's a sharper transition on the hi, making for a smaller spot overall. The wide spill angle of the Zebralights is a result of their shallow reflectors. Olights have even shallower reflectors, yielding spill angles closer to 120 degrees. Of course, the wider the spill angle, the less it will reach per the same lumen level as well. Everybody has different preferences in general purpose beam patterns, and mine just happens to be one with wide spill and a hotspot that has decently good throw.


----------



## staticx57

My opinion obviously but you point out 20k lux in a light that size tells me it is a very throwy light. At least as far as it's size permits. That's fine if you tell me it is a throwy light so I know what to expect and make my decisions based on that.


----------



## lampeDépêche

staticx57 said:


> My opinion obviously but you point out 20k lux in a light that size tells me it is a very throwy light.



Fair enough. This reminds me that I have been spoiled by my tiny pocket thrower, Vinh's Eagletac TX25cVn, which is slightly smaller than the SC600 but packs a hotspot of 65k lux. Since I'm used to that, 20k lux does not seem like a throwy light. But you're right! 20k lux is throwy! By the standards of 5 years ago, or by the standards of non-Vinh lights, 20k is plenty throwy. 

So, yes: the SC600 III HI is a throwy light, though not a freak-of-nature thrower like the TX25cVn. 

Actually, I was just goofing around on my drive home tonight. On empty roads, with no cars in sight in either direction. The SC600 III HI was noticeably brighter than my headlights.


----------



## twistedraven

Most of that lux from the HI comes from its sheer lumen output. I wouldn't say it has a pencil beam and narrow spill like most other throwers.

Does anybody have the H600FD to compare to the Plus?


----------



## liteboy

lampeDépêche said:


> Fair enough. This reminds me that I have been spoiled by my tiny pocket thrower, Vinh's Eagletac TX25cVn, which is slightly smaller than the SC600 but packs a hotspot of 65k lux. Since I'm used to that, 20k lux does not seem like a throwy light. But you're right! 20k lux is throwy! By the standards of 5 years ago, or by the standards of non-Vinh lights, 20k is plenty throwy.
> 
> So, yes: the SC600 III HI is a throwy light, though not a freak-of-nature thrower like the TX25cVn.
> 
> Actually, I was just goofing around on my drive home tonight. On empty roads, with no cars in sight in either direction. The SC600 III HI was noticeably brighter than my headlights.



your highbeams should just about match the output of this light!


----------



## StandardBattery

twistedraven said:


> Most of that lux from the HI comes from its sheer lumen output. I wouldn't say it has a pencil beam and narrow spill like most other throwers.
> 
> Does anybody have the H600FD to compare to the Plus?


I have an H600Fd Mk III, what did you want to compare, Throw? I have not looked at them side by side yet, just did it with the H600Fw Mk III since it has an XHP35. Are you wondering if the XM-L2 will create more throw even behind the frosted lens?


----------



## twistedraven

StandardBattery said:


> I have an H600Fd Mk III, what did you want to compare, Throw? I have not looked at them side by side yet, just did it with the H600Fw Mk III since it has an XHP35. Are you wondering if the XM-L2 will create more throw even behind the frosted lens?



Everything really. The amount of flood, the color temperature and tint, and maybe some shots showcasing how the color rendering is. It seems like the H600FD would be the closest comparison since it's another high CRI light sporting a Cree-- only that one is cherry-picked by both Cree and Zebralight to be as close as possible to the black body locus.


----------



## dubliftment

staticx57 said:


> I've never seen a cree "HI" light with "decent spill" trying to get spill from a cree "HI" defeats the purpose of it.



I sold my HI for exactly that reason. Moreover, it was not only lacking spill (I expected that), but the size of the hotspot is way too small for me.


----------



## StandardBattery

StandardBattery said:


> I have an H600Fd Mk III, what did you want to compare, Throw? I have not looked at them side by side yet, just did it with the H600Fw Mk III since it has an XHP35. Are you wondering if the XM-L2 will create more throw even behind the frosted lens?





twistedraven said:


> Everything really. The amount of flood, the color temperature and tint, and maybe some shots showcasing how the color rendering is. It seems like the H600FD would be the closest comparison since it's another high CRI light sporting a Cree-- only that one is cherry-picked by both Cree and Zebralight to be as close as possible to the black body locus.



Sorry I can't provide any pictures. The two emitters are CREE, but remember they are not the same emitters.



The Plus has more throw on H1 or H2 compared to the H600Fd III. It's subtle on H2, not so subtle on H1 but you have a more output then. _(note: H1 plus compared to H1 Fd, H2 plus compared to H2 Fd)_
On my samples the Plus has a warmer tint. which as usual is more noticeable at the lower levels.
The spill is brighter and looks more even so the plus gives a definite perception of more flood, but the actual max beam radiation angle looks very close, but the distribution of the light is different within the angle.
I could not measure it, but it seems the Plus has a larger variation in color temperature between the different output levels than the Fd III.


----------



## raduverdes

@StandardBattery : Thanks for your info. Please , how does SC600 Plus (at H1 and H2) and H600Fd (at H1) stand , thermally speaking , for ~5 minutes ? Thanks in advance .


----------



## StandardBattery

raduverdes said:


> @StandardBattery : Thanks for your info. Please , how does SC600 Plus (at H1 and H2) and H600Fd (at H1) stand , thermally speaking , for ~5 minutes ? Thanks in advance .


I'll see what i can do.


----------



## StandardBattery

raduverdes said:


> @StandardBattery : Thanks for your info. Please , how does SC600 Plus (at H1 and H2) and H600Fd (at H1) stand , thermally speaking , for ~5 minutes ? Thanks in advance .



*SC600Fd III Plus - H1**SC600Fd III Plus - H2**H600Fd III - H1**Ambient*18.4C19.0C18.4C*1m*21.0C20.0C23.4C*2m*27.6C20.4C28.0C*3m*26C21.2C28.0C*4m*28C20.8C28.0C*5m*30C21.3C28.0C


SC600Fd III Plus - H1 - PID output control reduced output Lux by roughly 1/2
SC600Fd III Plus - H2 - PID output control never reduced output
H600Fd III - H1 PID output control reduced output lux by roughly 25%
Measurements were made of the head with non contact sensor, I would not consider them precise.

Ambient conditions or environment conditions, such as contact with the light, can easily change the temperature of the light at high levels.


----------



## raduverdes

Awesome test ! Thank you very much , StandardBattery !


----------



## Koam

Just got mine. Like the wall of light. This is my first light with a frosted lens. There is about a 1/16" to 1/8" play in rubber boot before switch engages. My other three ZL have no play. Don't know if that's normal. Here's a quick iPhone pic of BLF348 with 10440, SC 600Fd and SC600w III HI.





[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## StandardBattery

Koam said:


> Just got mine. Like the wall of light. This is my first light with a frosted lens. There is about a 1/16" to 1/8" play in rubber boot before switch engages. My other three ZL have no play. Don't know if that's normal. Here's a quick iPhone pic of BLF348 with 10440, SC 600Fd and SC600w III HI.
> ...pic...


That photograph shows very well the different beam dispersion patterns. I never noticed the boot before, but you're right. The switch is lower and is not immediately engaged by the boot. I guess it's not a big deal as I never noticed it until you mentioned it, but I think I do prefer the solid contact of the previous ones. Maybe this will further reduce accidental activations for some people, I don't have them anymore though.


----------



## twistedraven

Interesting that the Plus has a slightly warmer looking tint than the H600FD. The 348 makes the plus look green, and the plus makes the 348 look magenta.


----------



## jon_slider

Koam said:


> BLF348 with 10440, SC 600Fd and SC600w III HI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]


outstanding comparison of 
Golden: BLF348 5000k 90+CRI N219b
Greenish?: SC 600Fd 5000k 90+CRI XHP50
Violet: SC600w III HI 4500k 80CRI XHP35

I believe the phone chose the SC600Fd for its white balance calibration, only the slightest hint of green
suprised to see how much more Golden the Nichia is than the XHP50
really suprised how Violet the XHP35 looks in contrast to the 600Fd

fwiw, with all due respect to others right to an opinion,
I think people are inacurate when they say Zebralight cherrypicks LEDs

imho the following scenario may be more realistic (just My opinion)

ZL does not cherry pick from the batch they buy
prepurchase of a batch, they make model selections to optimize their brightness goals, but they dont sort Tint bins and exclude some from production..

what the Rep said was that the XHP50 tends to have less Tint variation than the XHP35. imo they do not cherrypick individual XHP50s, nor did they cherrypick any other individual LEDs. 

Because they cant sell the LEDs that dont make the cut.. and they need all the LEDs to go out the door as sales of lights. It is then up to the customer to return the green ones. At that point, yes, the LED has been cherrypicked out of the selection by the customer. Then it is up to the stock handler to choose what light to send as replacement. They Might turn it on before shipping, but, I kind of doubt it. They have to ship lights. They cant go culling their own stock beforehand.. They rely on customer service to catch the green ones.. or the picky flashaholics.. actually.

Reject lights then go to a reseller like Lucky Light co, that has been selling through Amazon.. they buy customer returned lights.. like TCY's "green" one

TCY returning a light is an Important step in product development for ZL. They will keep statistics on how successful their XHP50 lights are. TCY is helping to cull marginal stock in regards to Tint variation (lottery).

I btw dont doubt the LED had a green Tint.. It IS relative though.. It helps to do 3 LED beamshots, like Koam does above.. it at least gives us Relative tint between a group

Koam, did the iPhone photo look similar to what you saw with your eyes.. was the XHP35 really that purple? Did you see any green in the XHP50 (I see almost none in the photo)


----------



## Koam

The 348 was not that purple, butmore rosy. It did have 10440 battery making it very bright. I'm not home but here is one more pic of the two 600s on a low setting. To me, when viewed together the SC600 looks a bit more golden than the Fd . Separately, it's not too noticeable to me. 

Funny about the switch and boot. Guess it's normal.




[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## TCY

I never thought putting all lights in one photo is a good idea, as I don't know which tint the camera would set as the "standard" one. I will give it a go when my replacement arrives though. Hope this time they get the tint right. I'm cool with the tint being slightly yellowish or golden but green is a no-no for me.


----------



## TCY

BTW Koam Thanks for the comparison shots! Makes me want to get a HI now


----------



## jon_slider

Koam said:


> The 348 was not that purple[/IMG]


oh! so, you listed the 348 first, which made me ASSuMe that it was on the left side of the picture



TCY said:


> I never thought putting all lights in one photo is a good idea, as I don't know which tint the camera would set as the "standard" one.


it seems that whichever light has the highest (coolest) Color Temperature, is the one used to set auto white balance on my iPhone










in the above two photos, look at how the N219 changes from neutral in the first pick, to cool in the pic immediately above.

note in the pic above how much Tint variation (Lottery) there is between the two 3000k XPG Leds (from the same batch). This sort of variation is what TCY is dealing with imo, on the greenish XPH50 he received

thats a 90 degree folded piece of printer paper btw.. makes a good beam comparison stage imo


----------



## lampeDépêche

Koam said:


> Just got mine. Like the wall of light. This is my first light with a frosted lens. .... Here's a quick iPhone pic of BLF348 with 10440, SC 600Fd and SC600w III HI.



I'm confused--this is a thread about the PLUS. Do you have the PLUS in there? 

It looks like you have a SC600Fd and a SC600w III HI. But neither of those is a PLUS.

So maybe these pictures are not relevant to this thread?


----------



## jon_slider

lampeDépêche said:


> I'm confused--this is a thread about the PLUS. Do you have the PLUS in there?
> 
> It looks like you have a SC600Fd



yes, youre confused, join the club … the SC600Fd IS the Plus… the full name is SC600Fd Mk III Plus
Post #771


Koam said:


> Just got mine. Like the wall of light. This is my first light with a frosted lens.



the one in the middle is the Plus (I think)


Koam said:


>



and the plus is on the right in the next pic (unless Im still confused)


Koam said:


>


----------



## lampeDépêche

jon_slider said:


> yes, youre confused, join the club … the SC600Fd IS the Plus
> Post #771



Ah--got it. Now I am unconfused. Thanks for the clarification.

(Before I posted my last, I went to the ZL website to see if that was the case, but it was temporarily down. Now it's up again, and I can confirm that the SC600Fd = SC600 PLUS).


----------



## jon_slider

lampeDépêche said:


> SC600Fd = SC600 PLUS.


Cool
also, Here is the Zebralight Models Spreadsheet, lots of useful details


----------



## Koam

Sorry for the confusion. I was in a rush to get out of the house and was having trouble uploading photos. It sounds like it got figured out.

it appears ZL hasn't settled on where they think is the best position for the lanyard ring. I'm surprised it's in a different position on my SC600wMKIII HI and the new SC600FdIIIPlus. I wonder what the reasoning is behind that? This also shows the different finishes. The Plus is the darker one.





[/URL][/IMG]




[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## twistedraven

Zebralight did cherry-pick the LEDs used for the H600FD and other easywhite models. When the lights were first released, they sent out a newsletter detailing their efforts to cure tint snobbery. 

Easywhite is a methodology Cree came up with where they mixed tint bins of their LEDs and but 4 different dies with 4 different tint bins into 1 led, in hopes of creating a sum of the tints that was very close to the black-body locus. That is also why the easywhite models are behind a frosted lens on the Zebralights. Zebralight went a step further and cherry picked those Easywhite LEDs to assure they were as close as possible to the black body locus-- so basically cherry picked LEDs to minimize tint differences when the LEDs are already manufactured to minimize tint difference.

The Plus model does not have this, because I'd wager it's far less cost efficient for Zebralight to ditch emitters that didn't make the cut because the xhp-50 hi cri costs considerably more than an xml2 easywhite. Cree does offer easywhite varieties of the xhp-50, but I don't know if they're easywhite and hi cri at the same time. Regardless if they do or not, Zebralight still wouldn't cherry-pick them from a financial standpoint.

The impressions and pictures of the Plus's tint is interesting. It looks to be much more in-line with the ever so popular N219B at 4500k that everybody knows and loves, though maybe lacking some magenta tint-shift. I bet if someone were to get multiple Plus's and get one that was the most pinkish, it would look pretty similar to the N219B at 4500k.

The BLF348 driven by a Lithium-Ion gives a nice pink tint at 5000k with over 90 R9-- the highest Maukka has measured yet-- very nice. I would get one but I'd want one driven by an 18650. Jaxman E2 will have to suffice. IIRC the 348 doesn't use an AR lens, I wonder how much of CRI and/or tint is affected by the usage of AR?


----------



## ibeQuint

I just got mine, the tint is really green. :sick2::green::eeew:


----------



## Koam

I like this light. The tree in pics is about 60-70 feet away from my deck. First photo is 4 house flood lights, LED equivalent of 90 watts each. Second is SC600wMKIIIHI, third is SC600FdIIIPlus. Both ZL on turbo.




[/URL][/IMG]




[/URL][/IMG]




[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## TheRealSpinner

Any chance one of you can compare the SC600FD III Plus with the SC600w HI and SC63w all side by side? I EDC the SC600w HI and the SC63w, but was looking at getting the SC600FD to replace the SC63w.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

ibeQuint said:


> I just got mine, the tint is really green. :sick2::green::eeew:



Sorry to hear that, ibeQuint. Got an email last night that my light has shipped. I really hope I don't get green.


----------



## roger-roger

Koam said:


> I like this light. The tree in pics is about 60-70 feet away from my deck. First photo is 4 house flood lights, LED equivalent of 90 watts each. Second is SC600wMKIIIHI, third is SC600FdIIIPlus. Both ZL on turbo.




Great pics! The performance of the Plus at that distance is pretty much what I was expecting. I'd order one in a sec, if not for the tint lottery. Too much trouble dealing with that randomness.


----------



## Connor

"Availability: In Stock"


----------



## Connor

Aaaaaaaand ... "Availability:	Back Order". 
That was quick.


----------



## staticx57

Got mine yesterday but today is the first day I've been home to actually pick it up and use it. A tad green but butter than my astrolux s41. This also has the best balance of throw and spill I've seen. Super useful beam profile.


----------



## roger-roger

Connor said:


> Aaaaaaaand ... "Availability: Back Order".
> That was quick.




Wonder if that was a green tint return.


----------



## dubliftment

"Availability: In Stock"

"Availability: Back order"

that was mine, I cancelled my order. don't know about the tint, though. I decided against the tint lottery. I have the feeling that my Astrolux S41 is unbeatable tint-wise.


----------



## snowlover91

I have to say the more I'm using my MK3 Plus the more I love it. It's such a clean beam and makes all my other lights seem inferior. I've always wanted a light that just gives off a pure, white light with little to no tint to it. This is exactly that, a tiny hint of a golden color is present but it's really nice. I'm finding more and more that when I want accurate CRI I grab this light before any of my others. The floody beam is great also, definitely not a thrower but I knew and expected that. I had a great chance to test it out this weekend when we lost power due to a hurricane lol.


----------



## samgab

samgab said:


> lol, the race is on! But shipping from China always seems to take an inordinately long time to arrive at my door here in NZ. I'm expecting to see in in about 2 weeks since they shipped it today from China...



Well, mine finally arrived today. So that gives you an idea how long shipping takes from China to NZ.
They sent me the shipped notice email on 23/09/2016, and it arrived today, 10/10/2016.
So two weeks plus the weekends at each end.

Anyway, I'm happy with the tint. Nice and white with no hint of green that I can discern.


----------



## StandardBattery

snowlover91 said:


> I have to say the more I'm using my MK3 Plus the more I love it. It's such a clean beam and makes all my other lights seem inferior. I've always wanted a light that just gives off a pure, white light with little to no tint to it. This is exactly that, a tiny hint of a golden color is present but it's really nice. I'm finding more and more that when I want accurate CRI I grab this light before any of my others. The floody beam is great also, definitely not a thrower but I knew and expected that. I had a great chance to test it out this weekend when we lost power due to a hurricane lol.



Yup, I love it for EDC, the beam is perfect, and yes I find the same thing when I look at some of my other lights. It reminds me of one of my HDS lights that I use around the house that has the DVFix film diffuser on the lens, but this is actually better. This is actually like the beam of early Zebra lights and like the current 603 with just a perfect flood. So happy mine has a tint that I'm very happy with. The 5F beams are pretty smooth and clean as well. Zebralight looks at the whole package, they are real designers and engineers.

Great work Zebralight! It may not be for everyone, I'm sure you'll have a lot of happy customers. Now I have less desire for another HDS or McGizmo Mule. I have to say this light is truely Brilliant! 

Now I have to find a use for my SC62w, because they have served me well and they were also a brilliant implementation of an EDC light. I bought backups of them since they were on sale, but now I guess I have less of a need for them.


----------



## defbear

I received mine. Great wall of light with a very wide center spot. I have other high CRI lights. This one brings a big dose of daylight wherever you point it.


----------



## ormandj

Does the frosted lens typically have a few tiny bubbles? Also, is the spot you see in the middle just a reflection of the quad die? I want to confirm that my lens is on the typical/normal side. It's near impossible to get a picture of this, but if you out the flashlight on the very lowest power at the low setting you can look at the lens while moving the flashlight. On mine you can see what looks like a flower. Center is white/grey, with little fingers slightly darker around it of a yellowish color, then the orange peel white-yellow fairly uniform after that. I see a few little tiny bubbles on what looks like the underside of the lens.


----------



## raduverdes

Don't worry , it's absolutely normal and yes it looks like a flower .
Here is a picture of my H600Fd III frosted lens , low mode 0,01 lumens @Huawei P9plus . Sorry , I don't have SC600Fd Plus yet but I suppose it is similar .

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0zkCdhXCd6seTJYTF9HSlk1Q2M/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## defbear

Nice photo. That is how mine looks. I have no hint of green. I guess my tint is a little beige.


----------



## CoherentRays

raduverdes said:


> Here is a picture of my H600Fd III frosted lens , low mode 0,01 lumens @Huawei P9plus . Sorry , I don't have SC600Fd Plus yet but I suppose it is similar .
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0zkCdhXCd6seTJYTF9HSlk1Q2M/view?usp=drivesdk



Nice picture. Yes, my SC600Fd III Plus-XHP50 looks pretty much like that too when I stare into the lens. 

Ed


----------



## ktsl

Come to think about it, why doesn't ZL offer frosty glass for sale as accessory? And make notches on the front bezel so it's easier to remove.

Or, make an diffuser cap lens as accessory for S600 Mk III Hi


----------



## raduverdes

@defbear , CoherentRays : Thanks for your appreciation ! 
@ktsl : I think it's a very good idea , no other (improvisation) diffuser I've tried come close to ZL's frosted lens .


----------



## dubliftment

Hey guys, some food for thought: after cancelling my pre-order on sunday I re-placed my order for the FD plus yesterday (want to give it a chance for high CRI, form factor and UI even though there might be a tint issue), immidiately asking ZL to check tint before shipping. They reply: there is no chance to prevent tint-shift because they don't measure cromaticity in this light. Lead time for shipping the Plus is four (4!) weeks IF I place my order now. 

Today I get a shipping notice for the SC600Fd III Plus.

What does that mean? Do I get the first greenish one that TCY returned? Or did they happen to have a perfectly white sample laying around and they said to themselves: "let's ship out this one to the poor guy, he would reject any other light anyway."?


----------



## snowlover91

dubliftment said:


> Hey guys, some food for thought: after cancelling my pre-order on sunday I re-placed my order for the FD plus yesterday (want to give it a chance for high CRI, form factor and UI even though there might be a tint issue), immidiately asking ZL to check tint before shipping. They reply: there is no chance to prevent tint-shift because they don't measure cromaticity in this light. Lead time for shipping the Plus is four (4!) weeks IF I place my order now.
> 
> Today I get a shipping notice for the SC600Fd III Plus.
> 
> What does that mean? Do I get the first greenish one that TCY returned? Or did they happen to have a perfectly white sample laying around and they said to themselves: "let's ship out this one to the poor guy, he would reject any other light anyway."?



Hmmm that is strange! Let us know what happens! When do you expect to receive it?


----------



## TCY

To make you feel better: Tracking says that my light is still at the Guangzhou customs waiting to be dispatched as at 10/10. There's a 99.9% chance that the parcel is still at Guangzhou, which takes at least 4-5 days to get to Shanghai. (where ZL China is located)

I wouldn't believe that perfect white sample theory though LOL!


----------



## recDNA

So they're all green or yellow?


----------



## F89

recDNA said:


> So they're all green or yellow?



I think it comes down to the eye of the beholder. I see a bit of green/golden yellow in mine but wouldn't disagree if someone saw either colour exclusively in mine or another colour or simply nothing but pure white for that matter.
Superficially the tint is quite white and neutral and without making comparison could be considered as good as it gets. Being a torch hound and tint snob however it will be compared and scrutinized.
I found that it's white rendering isn't as good as other lights I have nor is the CRI better. My favour still lies in various Nichia samples, generally the A varieties.
Even without comparison I find I can pick up CRI and tint variations among other things quite well.
Overall I'd say the Fd plus has quite a good tint and CRI but whether it's the best is up to your eyes. Some sound like they have had a sample with more extreme tint shift so the lotto still appears to be a factor, either way I feel Nichia leads in consistency, tint and CRI capabilities.


----------



## staticx57

Mine has a hint of green


----------



## F89

TCY said:


> I wouldn't believe that perfect white sample theory though LOL!



Definitely agree here. I hope you get a good one but I think you're dreaming if you think they're going to sit around analyzing and conferring on what is considered a nice pure tint and send you the golden ticketed Wonker Bar of Fd pluses.


----------



## scs

ZL's webpage has a statement regarding cell requirements and brightness perception. I'm surprised one with regard to tint has not been included.


----------



## Koam

F89 said:


> Definitely agree here. I hope you get a good one but I think you're dreaming if you think they're going to sit around analyzing and conferring on what is considered a nice pure tint and send you the golden ticketed Wonker Bar of Fd pluses.



https://youtu.be/KR8PscR6N2s


----------



## F89

Koam said:


> https://youtu.be/KR8PscR6N2s



Ha ha, I'm more of a Gene Wilder fan than a Johnny Depp fan.


----------



## dubliftment

Nice scene, but the guy is rejecting the golden ticket as well.

Anyway, I am not the absolute tint-snob. For example I see that one of my S41 hangs the slightest bit on the greenish side when directly compared to another S41 with three 219b and one 219c LED (mistake of manker, but a good one because the tint of this one is perfect). The tint of the first one is still perfect for all practical purposes. The tint-shift "doesn't make itself known" as someone said or it does not harm color rendition. In contrast i just decided to get rid of a Jaxman E3 because it is too pinkish even though color rendition is good. And just sold a SC52 L2 which was just horrible wherever you pointed it. Or a H600w that I had was so bad in color rendition that I immediately returned it to ZL. So it depends. I could end up with the Fd Plus becoming my new EDC or I keep on looking. Wonder if ZL will ever come up with a new High CRI AA light like the SC52d. 

I expect the Fd Plus to arrive here (in Germany) in two weeks. ZL shipping is always between 8 and 15 days for me.


----------



## dubliftment

scs said:


> ZL's webpage has a statement regarding cell requirements and brightness perception. I'm surprised one with regard to tint has not been included.


I think a remark like "tint shift especially toward green is possible because we don't measure actual cromaticity in these lights" would chop the purchases at least in half. And unneccesarily so I think. Because tint shifts are sometimes barely noticable except on white walls or in direct comparison to other lights. Or one person sees it, the other one sees perfect white. Not everybody is a tint snob like some of us. I regard even their remark on perceived brightness quite bold. Respect for that.


----------



## Minimoog

Following this with interest. My personal take is that there should be no noticeable green in the beam simply because this light is all about quality and smoothness of light close up, not quantity as in long throwing beams - where tint is not such a concern. As it will be used in close quarters I would expect it to be as natural and close to sunlight as possible. SureFire used to have green tinted beams and that is why I moved to other brands - or upgraded LED's myself. Being used to incan beams which when driven correctly are very pure with no tint, seeing other unwanted colours creeping in puts me off using a light. I just don't want to see it and honestly there is no real excuse for it in a quality light - its not 2006.

Tint is often downplayed as unimportant but when you get a tint free beam of good quality it makes the light much nicer to use and you will use it more and get more value from it.


----------



## evgeniy

May be, someone of SC600FD III+ owners can make RAW shots of white surface, for determine color temperature of SC600FD+ samples ?

Typically LEDs in ZebraLight flashlights is carefully selected, but in other topic I see some measurements by smartphone, "about 4500k".


----------



## low

Typically LEDs in ZebraLight flashlights is carefully selected said:


> some measurements by smartphone[/URL], "about 4500k".





Gee, I put my smartphone on flashlight mode and shined a flashlight into the face of the phone and the only thing that happened was the light seemed to shine out through the camera hole. Sup with dat???


----------



## markr6

My return should have gotten to them October 10. I wonder who will get that...it was a goodie


----------



## dubliftment

me of course! Seriously, I got my shipping notice on the 11th although the status on the website for the light was "back order". So they just took it out of your return envelope, repacked it and gone it was. Very good. I know it is a white one because I saw the comparison beamshot. Looking forward to it. Just as I said before, ZL needs serial numbers. Like "no. 445566691 is totally greenish, don't accept it as a replacement."


----------



## StorminMatt

Minimoog said:


> Following this with interest. My personal take is that there should be no noticeable green in the beam simply because this light is all about quality and smoothness of light close up, not quantity as in long throwing beams - where tint is not such a concern. As it will be used in close quarters I would expect it to be as natural and close to sunlight as possible. SureFire used to have green tinted beams and that is why I moved to other brands - or upgraded LED's myself. Being used to incan beams which when driven correctly are very pure with no tint, seeing other unwanted colours creeping in puts me off using a light. I just don't want to see it and honestly there is no real excuse for it in a quality light - its not 2006.
> 
> Tint is often downplayed as unimportant but when you get a tint free beam of good quality it makes the light much nicer to use and you will use it more and get more value from it.



EXACTLY! Foursevens, for instance, has come out and said that they will NOT sell lights with neutral or high CRI emitters. They just admitted that they are not in the business of pleasing tints. Therefore, ANYONE buying one of their lights looking for a good tint is a fool. But this light is specifically marketed toward 'tint snobs'. When you build and market a light for those who care about tint, you are held to a higher standard in this regard.


----------



## StandardBattery

*NOTICE:* Something is up with the SC600Fd III Plus - Zebralight website has sort of archived the page and it and it now says: 

"*Availability:* Not for Sale"


----------



## TCY

Hmmmm...could it be that too many people are returning it because of tint issue?

In their spreadsheet the description of the Plus is now "high CRI, tint variation within a 3-Step MacAdam ellipse region". Never seen this before. Does this mean that they've changed their mind and is now trying to cherry pick the LEDs?


----------



## TCY

Googled around and found this:

(from http://www.ledjournal.com/main/blog...nt-for-led-manufacturers-and-their-customers/)" A 1-step MacAdam ellipse defines a zone in the CIE 1931 2 deg (xy) color space within which the human eye cannot discern color difference. Most LEDs are binned at the four to seven step level, so you can often see color differences. The variable nature of the color produced by white light LEDs means a convenient metric for expressing the extent of color difference within a batch is the number of SDCM ellipses in the color space that the LEDs fall into. If the chromaticity coordinates of a set of LEDs all fall within 1 SDCM most people would fail to see any difference in the color. If the differences extend to a zone twice as big (2 SDCM) you will start to see a color difference. A 2-step MacAdam ellipse is better than a 3-set, and so on."

So it seems like that a 3-step region they are referring to is better than the industrial average(4-7). Possible cheery picking?:thumbsup:


----------



## snowlover91

Hmmm interesting developments. Maybe someone should email ZL and find out why? 

I will say I personally find the tint on my sample of the MK3 Plus just as pleasing as my Nichia lights I own. It's not as warm but it has a nice clean white beam with a hint of gold in it. I've had lights with green tints before and I can tell you that at least my sample doesn't have it. I do think many of them may have it though and it's more the luck of the draw, for now, unless they're changing their mind and considering cherry picking them again.


----------



## maukka

TCY said:


> Hmmmm...could it be that too many people are returning it because of tint issue?
> 
> In their spreadsheet the description of the Plus is now "high CRI, tint variation within a 3-Step MacAdam ellipse region". Never seen this before. Does this mean that they've changed their mind and is now trying to cherry pick the LEDs?



This great news! Nichia specs their emitters with three tint bins. The 3-step ellipse has the least variation and in Nichia's nomenclature is marked as smxx3 where xx defines the color temp, e.g. 40 = 4000K. There's also rank 5 (smxx5) and 7 (smxx7).

edit: it seems that Cree XHP50 (page 23) is also available with a 2-step MacAdam ellipse variation but only for the lower CCTs.


----------



## 18650

TCY said:


> In their spreadsheet the description of the Plus is now "high CRI, tint variation within a 3-Step MacAdam ellipse region". Never seen this before. Does this mean that they've changed their mind and is now trying to cherry pick the LEDs?



That's how Cree LED's are sold... you can order 3 or 5 step emitters by part number.


----------



## DMS1970

My order has been "processing" for a month. If anyone is on the fence about their light, and considering returning it, let me know. I would pay a premium plus shipping...


----------



## markr6

TCY said:


> Hmmmm...could it be that too many people are returning it because of tint issue?
> 
> In their spreadsheet the description of the Plus is now "high CRI, tint variation within a 3-Step MacAdam ellipse region". Never seen this before. Does this mean that they've changed their mind and is now trying to cherry pick the LEDs?



Yes that was just edited yesterday. I wonder what's going on!

Sometimes it's just wise to wait


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Wow surprised to hear all this about the "ultimate" CRI ZL. Green, wow. I'll stick to my Mkiii HI!!! Best ZL ever.


----------



## Koam

My inquiry and their reply...





Request Details 

 back to my account SC600FdIIIPlus "Not For Sale"
*Status:* Completed*Date Opened:* 10/13/2016*Department:* Sales*Opened by:* Customer*Last Action Date:* 10/13/2016





 
User/DateMessage*Customer*
10/12/2016 11:51:49 PMAloha,
I purchased and received my light but now see they are not for sale. Is there a problem with the light or something I should be concerned about? Thanks.

Aloha,

Dan



*Staff (Administrator)*
10/13/2016 9:17:25 AMNothing wrong with the light, we just want to drop some resource hogging models until the holiday seasons is over.


----------



## dubliftment

I wonder if anyone has their order / pre-order cancelled? I am sure glad that I got a shipping notice just after placing my order last sunday. Might have been the last shipped Fd+ for quite some time if they start picking and presumable re-sourcing LEDs now. In the end though I think this "resource hogging" will make the Fd+ the light is is claimed to be. Top notch quality, one of the best UI, high CRI, great beam quality and no tint lottery.


----------



## TCY

Here's ZL's reply to me:


_The SC600Fd III Plus comes with an XHP50 LED within a 3-Step MacAdam ellipse region, at 5000K. For comparison, all neutral white XHP35 LEDs we use, including the HI version, are in a 5-Step MacAdam ellipse region. The best 219Bs you can get is in a 5-Step MacAdam ellipse region, but most cheap lights use those outside the 5-Step region. That said, I think Nichia is following the steps of Phillips and Cree in specifying with MacAdam ellipses in their new LEDs._


----------



## TCY

I don't get it, if the HI is using 5-step region LED and the Plus is using 3, how come all reports of the HI's tint I've read are all very positive? I don't recall any post saying that their HI has a green/purple/blue/whatever tint.


----------



## TCY

ZL gave me an update 5 seconds ago: 

_Just want to correct: the best 219Bs are actually in a 5-Step trapezium shaped region (with wider tint variation compared to a 5-Step MacAdam ellipse region)._


----------



## TCY

maukka said:


> This great news! Nichia specs their emitters with three tint bins. The 3-step ellipse has the least variation and in Nichia's nomenclature is marked as smxx3 where xx defines the color temp, e.g. 40 = 4000K. There's also rank 5 (smxx5) and 7 (smxx7).
> 
> edit: it seems that Cree XHP50 (page 23) is also available with a 2-step MacAdam ellipse variation but only for the lower CCTs.



Thanks for the info. Before this I never realised that tint variation has a measurement system with a fancy name.

If 3-step is considered to be a very good standard, why did I receive that ugly green tint.. bad CREE


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## dubliftment

TCY said:


> If 3-step is considered to be a very good standard, why did I receive that ugly green tint.. bad CREE


 I think because the pre-orders were shipped with first-production lights that did not yet have the tight filter yet they are applying now.


----------



## Rawk

Hmm that's interesting - why is it not for sale anymore ?
Did it blow up like a Samsung Galaxy ? :duh2:


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## dubliftment

So obviously there still is a bit of a tint lottery, but within the 3-step-ellipse there should be little or no room for real greenish tints? I would like to see comparison beamshots of the most extreme tint variations that are still allowed in this matrix.


----------



## snowlover91

I think it can be reasonably concluded that there was a bit of a tint lottery for sure with the preorder batch of the MK3 Plus. Myself and Mark both received great lights with no green tint and I remember a few others who did also. It seems to be luck of the draw with this light but hopefully they'll get it fixed after the holidays. I'm just glad my sample was perfect because it was exactly what I was looking for; a clean neutral white beam with flood.


----------



## staticx57

dubliftment said:


> So obviously there still is a bit of a tint lottery, but within the 3-step-ellipse there should be little or no room for real greenish tints? I would like to see comparison beamshots of the most extreme tint variations that are still allowed in this matrix.



My understanding is that all the emitters they buy are reasonably close to each other in, not that there is no green.


----------



## markr6

FYI - Added "MacAdam ellipse" column to the product sheet


----------



## F89

Here's my assessment.
ZL aren't ever cherry picking individual LEDs, can you imagine the effort and expense in large production. They would obviously research and test which LED variety before they buy a batch.
Some will call in green, some will call it gold or yellow but I believe it's basically one tint and really depends on the viewer. One post here describes someone seeing a hint of green and their wife seeing yellow and gold. I'm even confused a bit myself now so I guess I'll call it goldy yellow?
Frosted lenses do a great job of smoothing tints and beams, combined with a nice LED like this one there is a very nice even tint with subtle off tint at worst. I'm not as enamored by mine as others but it is an excellent tint no less and I'm certain that mine is as good as this LED gets.
TCY reported a horrible green tint with photos to match but I find that photos often don't generally tell a good story when it comes to tint because of all the variables and I have a lot of experience in photography. I don't doubt that TCY got a bad sample but for the majority of us this is not the case.
ZL seam to fluff around a bit and get everyone worked up but once they sort themselves out I'm sure the next batch will be just the same. They won't be waving a magic wand over the LEDs but I wouldn't hesitate buying one and trying it for yourself.


----------



## StandardBattery

Happy I got my Christmas present early. When they start shipping again they will likely have the enhanced API so that will be a bonus and I may order again, although for my use I've decided the current API and level selection is fine. If they launch a non frosted one I'll be ready for that.


----------



## dubliftment

How do you know they will change the API with this light already? Didn't ZL (in another thread around here) say they would implement the fully programmable interface only next year?


----------



## F89

StandardBattery said:


> Happy I got my Christmas present early. When they start shipping again they will likely have the enhanced API so that will be a bonus and I may order again, although for my use I've decided the current API and level selection is fine. If they launch a non frosted one I'll be ready for that.



I wouldn't be surprised if they did that but like you I'm happy with the current firmware.
A non frosted model would have a greater level of tint issues along with beam issues so I can't see that happening.


----------



## StandardBattery

dubliftment said:


> How do you know they will change the API with this light already? Didn't ZL (in another thread around here) say they would implement the fully programmable interface only next year?


Precisely; now ... holiday season ... new year ... Asian New Year ... new shipments At least that is the way I decoded one of the ZL responses for the shipping halt .... maybe they meant the shorter US Thanksgiving season, or maybe before the Asian New year ... but....



F89 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they did that but like you I'm happy with the current firmware.
> A non frosted model would have a greater level of tint issues along with beam issues so I can't see that happening.



I have an XHP70 light with just an OP reflector and it's great. I think they may be able to make a new reflector for the XHP50 and have a non-frosted version.


----------



## snowlover91

F89 said:


> Here's my assessment.
> ZL aren't ever cherry picking individual LEDs, can you imagine the effort and expense in large production. They would obviously research and test which LED variety before they buy a batch.
> *Some will call in green, some will call it gold or yellow but I believe it's basically one tint and really depends on the viewer.*



I'm not sure I agree with that fully though. I realize tint perception can vary from person to person. However I would consider myself a "tint snob" and it definitely doesn't have a green tint on my light. Mark is also good at detecting tints and his copy was also a good one with a nice, clean white beam. I do think some received a light with more of a green tint shift while some others actually received lights with excellent tint. 

I imagine they'll probably work this out and my guess is this is why they pulled it from being for sale. The "resources" they mention it consuming probably indicates they want to get the tint issues under better control for this one and will wait until it's ready. This make take awhile and with Christmas approaching fast that's probably why they're waiting.


----------



## F89

StandardBattery said:


> Precisely; now ... holiday season ... new year ... Asian New Year ... new shipments At least that is the way I decoded one of the ZL responses for the shipping halt .... maybe they meant the shorter US Thanksgiving season, or maybe before the Asian New year ... but....
> 
> 
> 
> I have an XHP70 light with just an OP reflector and it's great. I think they may be able to make a new reflector for the XHP50 and have a non-frosted version.



A redesigned reflector would do it.


----------



## F89

snowlover91 said:


> I'm not sure I agree with that fully though. I realize tint perception can vary from person to person. However I would consider myself a "tint snob" and it definitely doesn't have a green tint on my light. Mark is also good at detecting tints and his copy was also a good one with a nice, clean white beam. I do think some received a light with more of a green tint shift while some others actually received lights with excellent tint.
> 
> I imagine they'll probably work this out and my guess is this is why they pulled it from being for sale. The "resources" they mention it consuming probably indicates they want to get the tint issues under better control for this one and will wait until it's ready. This make take awhile and with Christmas approaching fast that's probably why they're waiting.



I'm definitely a tint snob and have modded many lights including expensive customs and played with a stack of LEDs in the process. I'm sure if I sent my light to you, Mark or anyone else that it would be considered top notch with a tint mirroring yours.
ZL isn't known for sorting tint issues so I don't think they'll make a huge exception on this one. As far as I know they haven't even mentioned that they have a tint issue with this model and I'd be surprised if they were getting vast complaints so far.
I'll also add that I've never seen any LED with a clean, white beam as that sounds like pure perfection, I have seen a lot of very nice tints however. While this LED isn't my favourite I will agree and have said it's excellent. Yes, it's very white and it is very even but there's something about that goldy colour in it that makes me think green even if it is super subtle and missed by most.


----------



## Koam

I don't know. The resource reason might be a very valid one. I have the following lights:
H600wMKIII
SC5wOP
SC600wMKIII HI
SC600FdMKIII PLUS

They are all on backorder, except for the Plus, which is no longer for sale. At some point they need to get the new products produced and delivered so people can give them for gifts during the Holidays that are fast approaching. Maybe the Texas production facility is behind schedule. Maybe it's a move so there is one less light that they need to produce that they can't keep up with the demand and focus on the other backordered lights.

I don't really know if I have a green tint to my light that some of you would find unacceptable or if it's perfect and the best tint ever. It's hard for me to tell also because I live in a rain forest, everything is green, every view through my windows is green, the drive to my house is green, inside my house my rugs are green, my couch is green, the table runner and fireplace are even green! It's a pretty green world. 






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[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## F89

Koam, thank you for your last post it's my favourite in this thread.
Living the dream hey.
I know of a guy living pretty close to you that makes exceptional lights with tint to match. Not sure if anyone else has heard of him though


----------



## dubliftment

Yeah I also can discern the slight imbalance toward the greenish especially on the outdoor pic. Obviusly there must be a lot of photosynthesis be going on.

BTW: any of the new Fd+ owners missing the ZL-typical super low moonlight modes? for me, these modes were the reason to stick with ZL all the time. I am sure glad that the H600Fc and especially the SC62c still has them. The 0,05Lm mode is great for nightly room illumination.

Edit: According to TLF Forum (German), where someone emailed ZL, the Fd+ will be available again "probably in January 2017".


----------



## noboneshotdog

dubliftment said:


> Yeah I also can discern the slight imbalance toward the greenish especially on the outdoor pic. Obviusly there must be a lot of photosynthesis be going on.
> 
> BTW: any of the new Fd+ owners missing the ZL-typical super low moonlight modes? for me, these modes were the reason to stick with ZL all the time. I am sure glad that the H600Fc and especially the SC62c still has them. The 0,05Lm mode is great for nightly room illumination.
> 
> Edit: According to TLF Forum (German), where someone emailed ZL, the Fd+ will be available again "probably in January 2017".




The sub lumen level us still there. Due to the frosted lens the is still a super low low in my opinion.


----------



## noboneshotdog

dubliftment said:


> Yeah I also can discern the slight imbalance toward the greenish especially on the outdoor pic. Obviusly there must be a lot of photosynthesis be going on.
> 
> BTW: any of the new Fd+ owners missing the ZL-typical super low moonlight modes? for me, these modes were the reason to stick with ZL all the time. I am sure glad that the H600Fc and especially the SC62c still has them. The 0,05Lm mode is great for nightly room illumination.
> 
> Edit: According to TLF Forum (German), where someone emailed ZL, the Fd+ will be available again "probably in January 2017".




The sub lumen level us still there. Due to the frosted lens the is still a super low low in my opinion.


----------



## markr6

I still say it's time for a Nichia ZL. Just source the LEDs and charge us through the nose...get it over with


----------



## AB8XL

markr6 said:


> I still say it's time for a Nichia ZL. Just source the LEDs and charge us through the nose...get it over with



+1, I'll buy two.


----------



## dubliftment

As it appears now there was a first batch of Fd+ that now got shipped. Since the light has been discontinued, this will go into flashlight history as the 100 copies limited edition of the SC600Fd+. The golden grail of flashlights so to speak, if not for the tint issues - Later versions of this light, released presumably in Jan 2017, will be different in some respect.

Mark, I hope that you do not regret your decision to return your light (which is now on the way to me.)


----------



## twistedraven

I think they said they're temporarily cutting production of it for Christmas season because it's resource heavy.


----------



## markr6

dubliftment said:


> Mark, I hope that you do not regret your decision to return your light (which is now on the way to me.)



No regrets. A nice light but I could tell immediately it was one I just wouldn't use much. Enjoy the light!!


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Hey Koam,
Please, if you would, near your lovely expansive window with indirect sunlight, get a basic brown cardboard box and look at its color. Now, use your ZL on a complementary light level (similar to the light level from the sky) and take a gander at the color of the same box. Does it have a green cast? How is it different? Are you somewhat colorblind? Can you ask someone else to render an opinion? Thank You so much.


----------



## dubliftment

twistedraven said:


> I think they said they're temporarily cutting production of it for Christmas season because it's resource heavy.


 that's what they said, but given the timeline I am pretty sure they're somewhat tweaking the light for less returns and better sales.

BTW, since the 3-step-ellipse is on the spreadsheet, the 3024 internal brightness levels have gone. is it possible that the driver gets a re-design as well?


----------



## Koam

KITROBASKIN said:


> Hey Koam,
> Please, if you would, near your lovely expansive window with indirect sunlight, get a basic brown cardboard box and look at its color. Now, use your ZL on a complementary light level (similar to the light level from the sky) and take a gander at the color of the same box. Does it have a green cast? How is it different? Are you somewhat colorblind? Can you ask someone else to render an opinion? Thank You so much.



Not sure if this will help. ZL box. Pics are with 6s+. First pic no light on, just natural light, overcast sky 8:45am. Second pic M1. Third pic M2. I don't see much of a green shift. Don't think I'm colorblind.





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[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## KITROBASKIN

That looks very good. The brown table is very good as well. Thank You!


----------



## DMS1970

I emailed ZL yesterday, i asked them when I could expect my light that I ordered on 9/28. The response was, "next week, sorry for the delay, let us know if you want to cancel your order". 

Good news!


----------



## noboneshotdog

I hope ZL doesn't redesign the light then wait for the return policy to pass to release a new improved FD PLUS.


----------



## StandardBattery

noboneshotdog said:


> I hope ZL doesn't redesign the light then wait for the return policy to pass to release a new improved FD PLUS.


The return I believe is 30days, you can expect the enhanced version later than that based on what they are saying now. If you're not happy before your return period is up then return your light. It has no bearing on when or what they start shipping next.


----------



## noboneshotdog

StandardBattery said:


> The return I believe is 30days, you can expect the enhanced version later than that based on what they are saying now. If you're not happy before your return period is up then return your light. It has no bearing on when or what they start shipping next.



Do you think it makes sense to return it? I'm kind of leaning that way. I'm not too thrilled about the green tint of mine and would prefer to have the inhanced UI later than have this light and want the enhanced one later. 

By the way I'm talking I think I may have already made up my mind.


----------



## DMS1970

noboneshotdog said:


> Do you think it makes sense to return it? I'm kind of leaning that way. I'm not too thrilled about the green tint of mine and would prefer to have the inhanced UI later than have this light and want the enhanced one later.
> 
> By the way I'm talking I think I may have already made up my mind.



I think I missed something. Other than a cleaner tint, what enhancements do you expect to see on th UI


----------



## eraursls1984

DMS1970 said:


> I think I missed something. Other than a cleaner tint, what enhancements do you expect to see on th UI


Zebra light said they would be making some future lights more programmable. Some are assuming that means they are going to change this light.


----------



## noboneshotdog

DMS1970 said:


> I think I missed something. Other than a cleaner tint, what enhancements do you expect to see on th UI



Here are the specifics:

Subject: SC600FD PLUS PROGRAMMABILITY?

You'll see only 12 levels in the SC600Fd III Plus. The other 6 are 1011, 166, 59, 5.6, 1.51 and 0.08Lm but you'll not be able to access them. Fully programmable UI will be implemented next year.

Sincerely,

ZebraLight, Inc.
2908 Story Rd. W
Irving, TX 75038


----------



## noboneshotdog

I tried to give this light a chance. Used it at work the last week throughout the day. Unfortunately all I can see is green every time I turn it on. 

My light is going back. Just sent my return request to ZL. Gonna wait to see if they can straighten things out and maybe try again if they do. 

I really did want to keep this one. :shakehead


----------



## dubliftment

noboneshotdog said:


> Here are the specifics:
> 
> Subject: SC600FD PLUS PROGRAMMABILITY?
> 
> You'll see only 12 levels in the SC600Fd III Plus. The other 6 are 1011, 166, 59, 5.6, 1.51 and 0.08Lm but you'll not be able to access them. Fully programmable UI will be implemented next year.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.
> 2908 Story Rd. W
> Irving, TX 75038


 I certainly would use the 1011lm, 166Lm and the 0,08Lm a lot, hopefully ZL will release the code for programming that so that everybody can access them and does not have to buy the same light again. Just as they released the programmable PID feature some time after implementing it. It would be a nice move, like a "thank you" to the custumers that already shoved their cash over to ZL.


----------



## DMS1970

noboneshotdog said:


> Here are the specifics:
> 
> Subject: SC600FD PLUS PROGRAMMABILITY?
> 
> You'll see only 12 levels in the SC600Fd III Plus. The other 6 are 1011, 166, 59, 5.6, 1.51 and 0.08Lm but you'll not be able to access them. Fully programmable UI will be implemented next year.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> ZebraLight, Inc.
> 2908 Story Rd. W
> Irving, TX 75038



Thanks for the info. I like ZL because they're simple, I would NOT want or care about the additional levels. 6 are fine with me.


----------



## kj2

wow! didn't read this thread for a few days, and look what an extra info there has been posted. Thanks everyone 
Does explain why my ZL dealer doesn't have it in stock yet. Just have to wait patiently  

And fully programmable UI? Like AT used to have? Thumbs up! :thumbsup:


----------



## dubliftment

DMS1970 said:


> Thanks for the info. I like ZL because they're simple, I would NOT want or care about the additional levels. 6 are fine with me.


 For me, it really depends on the light. With 300 Lumens overall output, 6 levels cover anything I would need, as with SC62c. With the 1000+Lm of SC600w II L2 I find the gap between the lowest high and the highest med too big, just as the gap between M2A and M2B. also I swap HB2 and HB3 quite often, so it would be good to have 4 modes on direct access instead of 3. We'll see what ZL comes up with. The current UI is great, so if it remains like that I can well live with it.


----------



## DMS1970

Hopefully the "programmable" allows the extra 6 levels to be hidden. I had a meteor M43 that I had cheat sheets and cell phone pics of the manual to be able to check the battery level or get it back to turbo. I'd rather have a single turbo mode light than that BS. Zebralights are simple, elegant, dependable, high performance in a compact package, and high quality. They don't do tacti-cool, or flashy. If they could figure out the tint issue, you'd rarely see anything bad about them (I prefer cool lights). Hopefully they do not stray from the path...


----------



## noboneshotdog

I asked ZL if the current version of the FD PLUS would have a code that would unlock the programmable UI as they had a code with the pid. Here is their response:

10/15/2016 11:54:55 AM	We don't have any plans for a programmable UI on the current Mk 3 generation. New UI feature may be added to some new lights next year, but I have no idea what series/models that would be. I'll get you an RMA if you'd prefer to return the SC600Fd.


----------



## dubliftment

thanks for asking, interesting response from ZL. I wonder what the PLUS in the SC600Fd III stands for if not for *P*rogrammable *Lu*men *S*ystem.


----------



## F89

noboneshotdog said:


> I tried to give this light a chance. Used it at work the last week throughout the day. Unfortunately all I can see is green every time I turn it on.
> 
> My light is going back. Just sent my return request to ZL. Gonna wait to see if they can straighten things out and maybe try again if they do.
> I really did want to keep this one. :shakehead



I hear you on the green, that green under tone is pretty ordinary especially on white objects. I also see it but can live with it in most instances although it really looks ordinary when compared to a nice Nichia.
I should return mine but I'll keep it as a fishing, camping and area light.
The ZL UI is pretty average in my opinion also but that's another story.
This could have been a great light but I'll say it's just good. Atleast it offers a nice beam with a better tint and CRI than lights not geared toward tint.
I completely agree with Mark6 regarding the use of Nichia, if they did that it would be a hit but for whatever reasons they won't although I haven't read of a decent reason yet.

Edit.
Just looked at a colourful text book with photographs and various text some of which was large bold white text and everything looked great. Sometimes it's good to switch off the inner tint snob and just enjoy. I'll just have to stop comparing it to other lights that render white better and don't exhibit that yellowy green. It shouldn't be a problem for my intended use of this light.
It won't dethrone my Nichias but it can be nice.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Can someone ask ZL why this light is not for sale any longer? Or was that question already answered? 

I just wrote them twice regarding the UI and don't want to be a pain.


----------



## Rawk

Someone from TLF already received an answer about that.
"We have been spending too much time trying to explain MacAdam ellipses, tint matching possibility, and handling returns and exchanges, etc., to some early customers"
Looks like it's not available anymore because of the bad feedback.


----------



## StandardBattery

noboneshotdog said:


> Can someone ask ZL why this light is not for sale any longer? Or was that question already answered?
> 
> I just wrote them twice regarding the UI and don't want to be a pain.


They have answered a few times just look back in the thread starting at the report that it was not for sale.


----------



## noboneshotdog

StandardBattery said:


> They have answered a few times just look back in the thread starting at the report that it was not for sale.



Thanks. Found it. Must have missed it in all the action. 

Here it is for anyone else that was wondering why they dropped the FD PLUS:

Nothing wrong with the light, we just want to drop some resource hogging models until the holiday seasons is over.


----------



## roger-roger

Rawk said:


> Someone from TLF already received an answer about that.
> *"We have been spending too much time* trying to explain MacAdam ellipses, tint matching possibility, and *handling returns and exchanges, etc., to some early customers"*
> Looks like it's not available anymore because of the bad feedback.




Should probably be highlighted.


----------



## markr6

They took a chance with this light. A+ for effort. Hopefully it will be revised to replaced altogether in the future with something even better.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Man, that's the first time that I have seen a product release killed by yoghurt.

Jokes aside, I think it's a shame--ZL does a lot of good work, and deserves our encouragement.

Maybe this light was not ready for release--the record on this thread is mixed, with a fair bit of praise as well as complaints.

But my advice is this: if you want to support a really good company and encourage them to stay on the cutting edge, even when it bleeds, then buy a SC600 HI.

For my uses, it's a great combination of flood and throw. And my tint is excellent. An all-around winner.


----------



## markr6

lampeDépêche said:


> But my advice is this: if you want to support a really good company and encourage them to stay on the cutting edge, even when it bleeds, then buy a SC600 HI.
> 
> For my uses, it's a great combination of flood and throw. And my tint is excellent. An all-around winner.



+1. But I'm really surprised how the standard SC600 MKIII seems to be overlooked. It's such a perfect mix of flood/throw like the older MKI and II. I think the HI and talk about CRI of the Plus really stole it's thunder. Having said that, I only have the HI now since it's not SO throwy that that's all it can be used for. I just don't really need both.


----------



## maukka

markr6 said:


> +1. But I'm really surprised how the standard SC600 MKIII seems to be overlooked. It's such a perfect mix of flood/throw like the older MKI and II.



It's just that it was just as big of a lottery as with the Fd Plus tint wise.


----------



## TCY

In hindsight I regret posting the yogurt comparison pics. I thought it wasn't a big deal but many people were discouraged to try the Plus out just because of the comparison. Some of you guys have very good feedback on tint but chances are not all of the discouraged people saw them.

It's been two weeks and my light is still stuck at Shanghai customs. Just get me a Plus with a good tint and get this over with


----------



## markr6

maukka said:


> It's just that it was just as big of a lottery as with the Fd Plus tint wise.



But that's what I've found with every ZL after trying dozens of them thru the years. Some better than others, but it still comes down to luck. And of course, it's not just Zebralight.


----------



## lampeDépêche

TCY said:


> In hindsight I regret posting the yogurt comparison pics.



Don’t feel bad. It’s just something in the culture.


----------



## tops2

markr6 said:


> +1. But I'm really surprised how the standard SC600 MKIII seems to be overlooked. It's such a perfect mix of flood/throw like the older MKI and II. I think the HI and talk about CRI of the Plus really stole it's thunder. Having said that, I only have the HI now since it's not SO throwy that that's all it can be used for. I just don't really need both.



I agree about the standard SC600 MKIII. It sounds almost like the perfect balanced light that just a bit bigger than the SC63w. It does sound like there's a small group that like it more than the HI.

I've recently bought an Eagle Eye X6 HI version just to try out a "throwy" light (and it was inexpensive) and I can say I don't like for general use. I'm now back to considering the SC62w (since its discounted), the standard SC600w MKIII, or just wait till next year's model to see if they put in fully configurable UI. Kinda want a general use light that throws further than my H600Fd (which I love).





lampeDépêche said:


> Man, that's the first time that I have seen a product release killed by yoghurt.
> 
> Jokes aside, I think it's a shame--ZL does a lot of good work, and deserves our encouragement.
> 
> Maybe this light was not ready for release--the record on this thread is mixed, with a fair bit of praise as well as complaints.



To me, it seems like the target audience for this light are "tint snobs" so anything less than "perfect" will get criticized. The target audience will look at the tint/CRI aspect more critically so if Zebralight doesn't provide the "perfect tint" led, people may criticize and return. Even though it may use more resource to cherry pick the LEDs, but for this light, Zebralight probably should have since news of bad tint will spread quickly (which seems like it did here).


----------



## markr6

tops2 said:


> To me, it seems like the target audience for this light are "tint snobs" so anything less than "perfect" will get criticized. The target audience will look at the tint/CRI aspect more critically so if Zebralight doesn't provide the "perfect tint" led, people may criticize and return. Even though it may use more resource to cherry pick the LEDs, but for this light, Zebralight probably should have since news of bad tint will spread quickly (which seems like it did here).



I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in the towel on tint snobs after this one. As much as I like a good tint, I probably would have given up if I were them...just too much work and hassle. Or they "update" their return policy. Something may give.

But for the record, I loved the tint on my Plus. I just didn't find the beam useful to me. I knew it would be floody, but still not useful enough for me to justify $100 tied up into something that would sit on the shelf.


----------



## scintillator

I received one of these SC600Fd lights and I love it.I am a tint snob and the tint on this light is nice and renders colors nicely to my eyes.I like the floody beam the frosted lens
seems to do the job well.
I realize I lucked out on the tint but just sayin nice light here Zebralight work out the issues,onward and upward.
Disclaimer:all of the above are just my opinion


----------



## Rawk

How does it even work to 'cherry pick' thousands of LED ?
Is there a huge Cree factory with long hallways, stuffed with all the new high cri LED and as you walk along the hall, you literally pick the best out of it ? 
Or do they have to purchase thousands of LED and test them all, looking for 'bad' tint ?

I don't know how they do it, but it sounds to me that the problem is Cree, selling LED with random tint...
Is there any statement why ZL doesn't use Nichia ?

It was a nice try, but I guess you can't satisfy both camps...and by that I mean the one camp looking for highest output and the other camp looking for highest quality tint and beam...


----------



## scintillator

I would think that Cree would have a way to check them,and then sell at a premium to cover the cost.


----------



## 18650

scintillator said:


> I would think that Cree would have a way to check them,and then sell at a premium to cover the cost.



I would think people would be used to poor reds and cyans from Cree by now.


----------



## StandardBattery

lampeDépêche said:


> Don’t feel bad. It’s just something in the culture.


----------



## StandardBattery

This is one time where being an early adopter payed off for me. I love this light and it works great as an EDC for me. 
Now the Manker MK34 on Turbo has flood that even this one can't compete with, but it is just a little bigger and heavier and requires 3 batteries. If you want extreme flood though I recommend it.
A manker E14 is pretty slick also on an 18350. 
2016 has been the year of the Flood for me, but it's been a much nicer type of flood that many unfortunately experienced.


----------



## TCY

ZL has a "chromaticity measuring system" in their production line to measure tint deviation from the Planckian Black Body Line. This is a very costly process so currently they only use this on their H600Fd/c and SC5Fd/c lines.


----------



## snowlover91

While I understand the disappointment that all of these lights aren't perfect in tint I do think people are overlooking all the good reports posted. Some have reported great tint on their copies and mine is one of those. It's definitely more of a lottery with these than what was expected but if you get a good one it's an impressive light. Color rendering is excellent and tint on mine exhibits no green at all.


----------



## Mr. Tone

These will be collector's items now since the production is going to stop.


----------



## F89

snowlover91 said:


> While I understand the disappointment that all of these lights aren't perfect in tint I do think people are overlooking all the good reports posted. Some have reported great tint on their copies and mine is one of those. It's definitely more of a lottery with these than what was expected but if you get a good one it's an impressive light. Color rendering is excellent and tint on mine exhibits no green at all.



I currently have 14 Hi CRI lights, most using Nichia 119/219A/B, one XPG3 and one XHP50. There's a reason that the majority use Nichia as they are very consistent and offer the cleanest tints and best CRI.
I'm glad you're happy with yours, and I'll agree that it's a decent little light for what it is but Cree just don't currently offer what Nichia does and yes I'm certain I could see tint shift in your sample and yes there would be green in there even if it is subtle. 
Cree Hi CRI LEDs are good but don't render nearly as well as Nichia.


----------



## snowlover91

F89 said:


> I currently have 14 Hi CRI lights, most using Nichia 119/219A/B, one XPG3 and one XHP50. There's a reason that the majority use Nichia as they are very consistent and offer the cleanest tints and best CRI.
> I'm glad you're happy with yours, and I'll agree that it's a decent little light for what it is but Cree just don't currently offer what Nichia does and yes I'm certain I could see tint shift in your sample and yes there would be green in there even if it is subtle.
> Cree Hi CRI LEDs are good but don't render nearly as well as Nichia.



I have quite a few Nichia lights myself and some custom ones as well and can tell subtle tints just fine. I'm sure if you used mine you would not see a subtle green tint since there isn't one. Yes I've had Cree LED's with all kinds of tint from purple to blue, green and yellow green and I've gotten lucky and had some with great tint too. My first SC5w was one of those with a nice clean beam, next one I bought wasn't so lucky with a hint of purple. 

I agree Nichia are the LED's to beat out there but I also will say the Easywhite LED in my SC5fd and the new MK3 Plus with the 93-95cri XHP50 are both right up there in my two lights. They don't have as much of a golden/rosy tint as the Nichia but are more of what I would call a clean, neutral beam. Both lights do have a subtle tint to them but neither exhibit the green tint. The SC5fd tends to have a slightly blue and my MK3 Plus a hint of rosy/gold tint like a Nichia but more subtle. When I get home in a few day I'll get some RAW pics with my DSLR to show what I mean.


----------



## F89

snowlover91 said:


> I have quite a few Nichia lights myself and some custom ones as well and can tell subtle tints just fine. I'm sure if you used mine you would not see a subtle green tint since there isn't one. Yes I've had Cree LED's with all kinds of tint from purple to blue, green and yellow green and I've gotten lucky and had some with great tint too. My first SC5w was one of those with a nice clean beam, next one I bought wasn't so lucky with a hint of purple.
> 
> I agree Nichia are the LED's to beat out there but I also will say the Easywhite LED in my SC5fd and the new MK3 Plus with the 93-95cri XHP50 are both right up there in my two lights. They don't have as much of a golden/rosy tint as the Nichia but are more of what I would call a clean, neutral beam. Both lights do have a subtle tint to them but neither exhibit the green tint. The SC5fd tends to have a slightly blue and my MK3 Plus a hint of rosy/gold tint like a Nichia but more subtle. When I get home in a few day I'll get some RAW pics with my DSLR to show what I mean.



Cree had a good try with their new Hi CRI LEDs even making them right into cool tint territory but they just aren't the best although I'm not saying they are completely terrible. I think ZL are just throwing figures around with the 93 to 95 CRI also but either way, I find the rendering of whites and colours more accurate with Nichia and atleast to me more pleasing.
You can take as many RAW format pics as you like but they aren't going to mean much.
Also when you talk about Nichia being rosy or gold that really depends. I have some 119/219A that are a little rosy and warm but most of my B's are very neutral and cooler with only one that is warmer than my SW45 A's but without the pink.
My point is that there are various factors tint bins and so on but the Nichia are clean and consistent while all the HiCRI Cree I've played with (all 5000K) aren't as good.


----------



## snowlover91

F89 said:


> Cree had a good try with their new Hi CRI LEDs even making them right into cool tint territory but they just aren't the best although I'm not saying they are completely terrible. I think ZL are just throwing figures around with the 93 to 95 CRI also but either way, I find the rendering of whites and colours more accurate with Nichia and atleast to me more pleasing.
> You can take as many RAW format pics as you like but they aren't going to mean much.
> Also when you talk about Nichia being rosy or gold that really depends. I have some 119/219A that are a little rosy and warm but most of my B's are very neutral and cooler with only one that is warmer than my SW45 A's but without the pink.
> My point is that there are various factors tint bins and so on but the Nichia are clean and consistent while all the HiCRI Cree I've played with (all 5000K) aren't as good.



Just because the ones you've used aren't as good doesn't mean there aren't some out there like myself who have better samples. As you know with Cree they can have a good bit of variance in their high CRI emitters, as seen in this thread. Some are not that great and demonstrate the green tint shift while some of them are excellent. It's more a lottery with Cree than Nichia but my point is if you get a good Cree emitter than it is pretty close if not equal with a Nichia. Not as consistent it's more luck of the draw. While you haven't had the best of luck I did get lucky with my MK3 Plus and it's every bit as good as my Nichia emitters.


----------



## F89

snowlover91 said:


> Just because the ones you've used aren't as good doesn't mean there aren't some out there like myself who have better samples. As you know with Cree they can have a good bit of variance in their high CRI emitters, as seen in this thread. Some are not that great and demonstrate the green tint shift while some of them are excellent. It's more a lottery with Cree than Nichia but my point is if you get a good Cree emitter than it is pretty close if not equal with a Nichia. Not as consistent it's more luck of the draw. While you haven't had the best of luck I did get lucky with my MK3 Plus and it's every bit as good as my Nichia emitters.



I believe I also got a good example.
Yes, in my experience Nichia produce a better HiCRI LED than Cree.
My experience with Cree HiCRI hasn't been all bad, I recently remodded a light from 219 to XPG3 and am happy with it but of course the 219 was cleaner and the fd plus isn't all bad as I've said all along.
I think the dust has settled on this light anyway, I like mine enough but I don't think the XHP50 is the tint and CRI champion.


----------



## markr6

I would have liked to see a beamshot of the Plus before installing the frosted lens, so I could see what I was missing, or not missing. I've seen some XHP50s on an OP reflector and they looked ok...probably different depths/diameters though.


----------



## snowlover91

F89 said:


> I believe I also got a good example.
> Yes, in my experience Nichia produce a better HiCRI LED than Cree.
> My experience with Cree HiCRI hasn't been all bad, I recently remodded a light from 219 to XPG3 and am happy with it but of course the 219 was cleaner and the fd plus isn't all bad as I've said all along.
> I think the dust has settled on this light anyway, I like mine enough but I don't think the XHP50 is the tint and CRI champion.



My experience is that a good XHP50 is as good as a Nichia 219. We will just have to agree to disagree


----------



## markr6

snowlover91 said:


> My experience is that a good XHP50 is as good as a Nichia 219. We will just have to agree to disagree



I've even had an XM-L2 4400K (SC5w OP) about as good as my Nichia 219B lights. That was impressive! Same temp/lack of tint and you could only notice the difference in CRI if you looked close. Too bad they're not all the exact same from Cree.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Anyone see this little gem in Zebralight's product sheet?
*
SC600F III Plus @ 70 CRI and 1800 lumens

*Crap, I don't even have my Fd yet (should be today or tomorrow) and now I'm thinking of this. I really need to stay away from you people.


----------



## markr6

Flashlight Junkie said:


> Anyone see this little gem in Zebralight's product sheet?
> *
> SC600F III Plus @ 70 CRI and 1800 lumens
> 
> *Crap, I don't even have my Fd yet (should be today or tomorrow) and now I'm thinking of this. I really need to stay away from you people.



Yeah they announced it back on August 25.



markr6 said:


> *SC600F III Plus *is now on the spreadsheet!! 1800 lumens! 70CRI
> 
> FD Plus down from 1600 to 1500lm. I'm still a buyer, though.



I think the HI CRI version pretty much stole its thunder, though.


----------



## Mr. Tone

I received the light today. The light is exactly what I had hoped for. The beam is white and has good color rendering. The beam is also smooth and floody which will be great for general purposes, especially around the house. It is also very compact and can easily clip to a pocket or go inside a pocket without too much bulk or weight. Also, the light is bright and has nice levels to choose from, especially the true moonlight modes. I am looking forward to using it more, thanks Zebralight.


----------



## AB8XL

Mr. Tone said:


> I received the light today. The light is exactly what I had hoped for. The beam is white and has good color rendering. The beam is also smooth and floody which will be great for general purposes, especially around the house. It is also very compact and can easily clip to a pocket or go inside a pocket without too much bulk or weight. Also, the light is bright and has nice levels to choose from, especially the true moonlight modes. I am looking forward to using it more, thanks Zebralight.





I have to agree, received my today too. Very well balanced flood light, "Good Tint" just as Markr6 says.

If they ever decide to build with the newest Nichia NV4W144 I'll buy two, one floody and one non-floody.


----------



## Mr. Tone

yoyobrotha said:


> I have to agree, received my today too. Very well balanced flood light, "Good Tint" just as Markr6 says.
> 
> If they ever decide to build with the newest Nichia NV4W144 I'll buy two, one floody and one non-floody.



That's good to hear, I hope Zebralight will continue to develop hi CRI lights. I am not sure why they aren't willing to make a triple with Nichia hi CRI LEDs. That has been a good combination for many CPF tint snobs like myself.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Mr. Tone said:


> That's good to hear, I hope Zebralight will continue to develop hi CRI lights. I am not sure why they aren't willing to make a triple with Nichia hi CRI LEDs. That has been a good combination for many CPF tint snobs like myself.



I wish they would make a triple Nichia in a SC600 body. I'd just give Zebralight my wallet and tell them to take whatever they want.


----------



## roger-roger

I'm assuming hopefully the NV4W144 can run as a single emitter light.  

I would tend to guess ZL will not be looking into a multi emitter design, as it doesn't currently seem to fit in to their design philosophy.


----------



## sam7

snowlover91 said:


> My experience is that a good XHP50 is as good as a Nichia 219. We will just have to agree to disagree


 I have many Zebralights and love them for their compact size, brightness, and great interface. I also have several Nichia 219 lights and just love them for their amazing light quality. 

Unfortunately, even high CRI Crees in Zebralights do not compare to Nichia when it comes to quality of light. It is not just about color temperature, I actual see and understand visual information better using Nichias. 

I got my SC600Fd III Plus a couple days ago. Compared to other Crees, it is an improvement in light quality. But it still is not in the same ballpark as Nichia for my eyes.


----------



## low

Gee, I am sort of a lose here at the moment, I was going to order this after the bugs were worked out, but now it could be a six month wait. I wasn't trilled about a flooder that wasn't on my head, but high CRI? Hard to pass. I used to check this tread 3-4 times a day looking for news, but now there seem to be nothing to look forward to. Surly someone will put something out with a little higher CRI by then wont they? Like the XHP70 96 CRI?


----------



## low

sam7 said:


> Unfortunately, even high CRI Crees in Zebralights do not compare to Nichia when it comes to quality of light. It is not just about color temperature, I actual see and understand visual information better using Nichias.




You know, I couldn't agree more. I have a Logan 17500 from Peak with a Nichia high CRI and the color rendering is simply outstanding. Nothing else I have even comes close. The only reason I don't use it more is because I am not a big fan of [FONT=&quot]Quantum Tunneling Composite (QTC) Technology for variable light output. Unless you twist it several times before use, it is variable from off to wide open, no in between.[/FONT]


----------



## wolfgaze

I too have been spoiled by the very pleasurable Nichia (219B) lighting experience... I wish more manufacturers would employ this emitter in their lights - including Zebralight...


----------



## recDNA

dubliftment said:


> I think a remark like "tint shift especially toward green is possible because we don't measure actual cromaticity in these lights" would chop the purchases at least in half. And unneccesarily so I think. Because tint shifts are sometimes barely noticable except on white walls or in direct comparison to other lights. Or one person sees it, the other one sees perfect white. Not everybody is a tint snob like some of us. I regard even their remark on perceived brightness quite bold. Respect for that.


In theory the only thing this Zebralight offers that others do not is 5000k with HI CRI. It isn't the brightest and lacks throw entirely so the only point was great color rendition and nice white tint. Lacking both it lacks appeal to me entirely. It's too bad because I was never so excited about the release of ANY flashlight. I thought I was getting great brightness, tint, and CRI. I'd be better off with a quad Nichia from what I've read here.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> In theory the only thing this Zebralight offers that others do not is 5000k with HI CRI. It isn't the brightest and lacks throw entirely so the only point was great color rendition and nice white tint. Lacking both it lacks appeal to me entirely. It's too bad because I was never so excited about the release of ANY flashlight. I thought I was getting great brightness, tint, and CRI. I'd be better off with a quad Nichia from what I've read here.



It actually has great color rendition and a nice white tint. I think a lot of it is people focusing on some of the bad samples with green tint or shining it on a white wall and scrutinizing the beam for any little imperfection. Meanwhile those who have received great lights like myself, Mark and many others are overlooked. 

I would say this is better than any other light I own in the tint department (outside of Nichia ones) and equal to a Nichia. The only difference between my sample and a Nichia is this has more of a white, neutral beam whereas the Nichia tends to be a little warmer and has that rosy/golden tint people expect of a Nichia. I actually prefer the whiter beam of the MK3 Plus better myself but as far as color rendering my tests have shown both are similar.


----------



## Mr. Tone

I have had many Nichia hi CRI lights and this compares favorably, actually. This is brighter than any of my Nichia triples, too. The true moonlight modes plus the Zebralight UI are also great selling points. This puts out a good amount of light and really lights up an area well. The beam is kind of like a good TIR but smoother on the transition.


----------



## StandardBattery

The truth is most people don't want a Hi CRI light, they just want one that looks good to them. Most of the visible spectrum is green, it's not surprising that light which is attempting to get a high CRI might lean towards green in some cases. Two lights can have the same CRI and not produce the same light _(unless the CRI was 100)_, it's a one number classification of a complex system. CREE probably says somewhere which standard they use for CRI, but no one takes note of that here and since a lot of the lights here tend to be warm, that is an important factor. Maybe CREE and Nichia even use different standards, I never checked. I'm sure there is some good info on CPF about this as I remember in the past some quite knowledgeable people on the subject talked at length.


----------



## twistedraven

A 2700k incandescent and midday sunlight at 5700k both produce 100cri, but they're completely different light, in terms of both tint and color temperature.

CRI is an incomplete system, as it only accounts for 8 color samples, and leaves out some more saturated colors, like deep red and deep cyan for example. Those two colors are interesting, because they're the colors LEDs tend to struggle the most with reproducing. Other standards of color rendering take into account these colors, but not the typical CRI standard that all manufacturers use. That said, I think most people are really mostly after a good tint and less so a really high CRI. If we were to ideally compare an apple to an apple in light output, one having 80 cri and one having 90 cri, the difference would be subtle. Differences in tint (or lack thereof) and color temperature are much more noticeable to the eye.


----------



## StandardBattery

twistedraven said:


> A 2700k incandescent and midday sunlight at 5700k both produce 100cri, but they're completely different light, in terms of both tint and color temperature .....



Yes if you state a 100 CRI you have to state the color temp. Any light at 100 CRI is intended to reproduce the exact spectrum of the sun (at that color temperature), but how one measures that is still often imprecise. As in the example you gave of 8 color samples... that is but one standard and the measurement of the samples can also vary. As you say it is an incomplete system so people here are relying on it for more than they can without knowing much more.


----------



## DMS1970

I received mine and find it impressive, but I'm the only person in the world (likely) that has and likes cool white lights. It looks pretty yellow next to my olight s2, but is a pleasing color (not seeing the green). It is a wall of light and a very useful beam. If 6000 or 6500K was an option, I'd trade it in, but looks like a keeper. I have the SC63, and SC600 MKIII. I was deciding which one to keep. I have found that the SC63 works better for me than the MKIII, as I am not usually looking at distance for throw, plus it is super compact and makes a great companion to the FD.


----------



## JStraus

I got mine yesterday and like it so far. My observations so far is that it's a good companion to my SC63w. Not as yellow and a great beam pattern for dog walking etc. The 63 is pretty floody too, but I have a H600w MKII, the 63 and a 52w L2 too. I'm probably backwards here and should have the SC600 MKIII HI and a frosted headlamp but there it is. 

I don't think I need the reach much beyond my H600 and SC63 (I have some better throwers) and think that I'll find the nice beam and tint of this Plus useful.

What I was most glad to see is that it's moonlight modes are plenty low to leave on on my nightstand for late night house nav. The specs make it sound brighter than it actually is. It's about the same as my 63 in lowest L2 and L1 but as you might guess, floodier.

I'm keeping it.


----------



## TCY

Good to hear that you guys like your new light. It's been over three weeks since I returned my Plus for a replacement and ZL still hasn't got it yet. Stupid China post


----------



## snowlover91

TCY said:


> Good to hear that you guys like your new light. It's been over three weeks since I returned my Plus for a replacement and ZL still hasn't got it yet. Stupid China post



Sorry to hear that  Hopefully they'll get it delivered soon so you can get the new one! You'll have to keep us updated on the progress!


----------



## StandardBattery

If someone gets a nice one, but decides it's too floody for them send me a PM I'll buy it.


----------



## TCY

snowlover91 said:


> Sorry to hear that  Hopefully they'll get it delivered soon so you can get the new one! You'll have to keep us updated on the progress!



Will do. I just ran another check and seems like a postie attempted delivery yesterday and "recipient was not available at the delivery address". Dunno, at this point I'm just glad to know that they haven't lost my light. Yet.

I'm such an impatient guy, I paid the extra to ZL so they could ship my replacement light via EMS. Hopefully this time they'll get the tint right. Fingers crossed!


----------



## JKolmo

I also received mine two days ago. Really nice light, in fact my favourite ZL! 

Extremely nice form factor and more up to the job like than the thinner SC63 and SC62 etc but still not bulky and almost as long. The beam is perfect for my floody liking. Tint is really nice, especially outdoors. True, may be perceived as a tiny tad to the green spectrum when comparing with a Nichia 219A or B or 119 against a white wall. 

I do however have other lights for whitewall hunting (various HDSs, McGizmos, Malkoffs etc).

I think you must take the ZL for what it is, a very nice form factor, powerful outdoor pocketlight with a very nice tint for its use.


----------



## Lumencrazy

StandardBattery said:


> The truth is most people don't want a Hi CRI light, they just want one that looks good to them. Most of the visible spectrum is green, it's not surprising that light which is attempting to get a high CRI might lean towards green in some cases. Two lights can have the same CRI and not produce the same light _(unless the CRI was 100)_, it's a one number classification of a complex system. CREE probably says somewhere which standard they use for CRI, but no one takes note of that here and since a lot of the lights here tend to be warm, that is an important factor. Maybe CREE and Nichia even use different standards, I never checked. I'm sure there is some good info on CPF about this as I remember in the past some quite knowledgeable people on the subject talked at length.




What???????


----------



## PieDemon

Lumencrazy said:


> What???????


He's not wrong, CRI is determined by how well the lightsource represents a set number of colours (about 12-15 or so). There are a few revisions of the colours to be tested out there, but it means that theoretically you can have a really ugly bump in the spectrum causing a "nasty tint" or misrepresenting some colour ranges yet still score well on the set list of colours determining your CRI values.

If you want to get a better idea without having the actual product in hand you can try to make sense of the datasheets, with some luck you'll find a relative spectrum graph or a chromaticity chart (the latter can be hard to read properly until you make sense of it).


----------



## recDNA

I can take a little blue, a little pink, even a little purple but I don't like green or yellow and of course I will use a white wall to test it. Please don't make excuses for greenish tints. If you like them that's fine. Many of us, I dare say MOST of us really hate greenish tinted flashlights. It's fine in a Surefire. We know they're green and they make no tint claims. If anything they argue green is good. It's also convenient since a lot of led's turn out greenish light but when I pay big bucks for 5000k hi cri I do not want green. If Zebralight ever decides to cherry pick to avoid green tinted junk I'm in. In the meantime it's more Zebralights for you.


----------



## TCY

@snowlover91

ZL has shipped the replacement earlier today. I'll let you know when I have it.


----------



## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> I can take a little blue, a little pink, even a little purple but I don't like green or yellow and of course I will use a white wall to test it. Please don't make excuses for greenish tints. If you like them that's fine. Many of us, I dare say MOST of us really hate greenish tinted flashlights. It's fine in a Surefire. We know they're green and they make no tint claims. If anything they argue green is good. It's also convenient since a lot of led's turn out greenish light but when I pay big bucks for 5000k hi cri I do not want green. If Zebralight ever decides to cherry pick to avoid green tinted junk I'm in. In the meantime it's more Zebralights for you.




Quite a few on here have lights without the green tint. Again a few bad samples and everyone focuses on those instead of the many positive reports of great tint. 

TCY, good luck with the new one, I hope yours is as good as mine because you'll love it if so. How soon will it arrive?


----------



## TCY

ZL says EMS can get the light here in 5-6 days but I expect a bit more. Local post service is inefficient as well.. on rare occasions they pretend that there's no one at the premise and just drops a card letting the recipient to get the package themselves at the post office. Hope this wont happen to me


----------



## Mr. Tone

I'm really loving the combo of smooth floody light with the moonlight modes. This is the best bedside light I've had.


----------



## AB8XL

Mr. Tone said:


> I'm really loving the combo of smooth floody light with the moonlight modes. This is the best bedside light I've had.



+1, I'm enjoying the light as well, very nice wall of light, illuminates a nice wide area evenly.


----------



## dubliftment

In case someone is really keen on the Fd, Nkon.nl has them right now, but only 30pcs as was stated in a german flashlight forum. mine from ZL still has not shown up. I am somewhat anxious to see how this light is performing.


----------



## StandardBattery

dubliftment said:


> In case someone is really keen on the Fd, Nkon.nl has them right now, but only 30pcs as was stated in a german flashlight forum. mine from ZL still has not shown up. I am somewhat anxious to see how this light is performing.


Thanks! I bought a backup.


----------



## maukka

Been waiting for nkon to get them. Finally was able to order. Couldn't resist and got the SC600w III HI too. Now let's hope for good ones (even though I did ask for nkon to pick a nice one, but that's probably what everyone does...)


----------



## TCY

maukka said:


> Been waiting for nkon to get them. Finally was able to order. Couldn't resist and got the SC600w III HI too. Now let's hope for good ones (even though I did ask for nkon to pick a nice one, but that's probably what everyone does...)



Welcome to the club. Any chance for a quick review? :naughty:


----------



## F89

maukka said:


> Been waiting for nkon to get them. Finally was able to order. Couldn't resist and got the SC600w III HI too. Now let's hope for good ones (even though I did ask for nkon to pick a nice one, but that's probably what everyone does...)



I just had a go of mine after being away and not using it for a couple of weeks.
Without comparison and staring at walls it's a very nice tint indeed. I have scrutinized the tint and worn flack about having a poor sample but the truth is I believe I have an excellent sample as good as any but I'm just an extreme tint snob that studies every new light.
I really don't think there is going to be too much variation with this LED but that's not to say some won't see yellow or green if ever so subtle. The only extreme case that I know of was TCY's. I'll be interested to see how his new one goes and certainly maukka's with that excellent data on review.


----------



## dubliftment

maukka said:


> Couldn't resist and got the SC600w III HI too.


 I am really interested in how you'll like them side by side. I had the HI and gave it away because of the strange beam profile. Now I ordered the "normal" SC600wIII together with the Fd and I hope they will make a good pair, replacing my SC600wIIL2. For color rendering and beam quality I have three lights waiting to compare with the FD: Astrolux S41, Jaxman E2, Zebralight H600Fc - my absolute beam champion so far.


----------



## TCY

F89 said:


> I just had a go of mine after being away and not using it for a couple of weeks.
> Without comparison and staring at walls it's a very nice tint indeed. I have scrutinized the tint and worn flack about having a poor sample but the truth is I believe I have an excellent sample as good as any but I'm just an extreme tint snob that studies every new light.
> I really don't think there is going to be too much variation with this LED but that's not to say some won't see yellow or green if ever so subtle. The only extreme case that I know of was TCY's. I'll be interested to see how his new one goes and certainly maukka's with that excellent data on review.



(Probably) The first one to get this light on planet Earth and so far the only one getting an unbearable tint.. who woulda thought


----------



## psychbeat

I'm still holding out for the "C" version but realize it probably won't happen. 

Maybe a warmer tint would be more forgiving as people wouldn't mind a little yellow. 

I actually love yelllowy 4000K beams in the terrain I frequent (foggy dense bush/forest/trails). 
My Nichia 219b lights tend too rosy and don't have the contrast my warmer yellowy DeDomed and neutral lights have.


----------



## dubliftment

I was thinking the same (about a SC600Fc) and I think either this or a SC63Fd/c will come. Zebralight can't afford to ignore the High CRI market and just go there with the headlamps. The demand for floody High CRI low CCT high output lights will grow. For a thrower you don't need high CRI I think, for anything in close range operation (headlamp, floody, EDC) yes.


----------



## drummer132132

Was recently looking at purchasing a Plus for the wife as a nice walking light since she prefers floody lights. The bonus was also the fact this light has high cri. Unfortunately the light is listed as "not for sale." I contacted zebralight on when they would be available as well and why it's listed as such. Their response was all their time is taken up with all the returns and or exchanges taking place probably because of the heavy scrutiny this light received from white wall hunting instead of actual outdoor use. Estimated time the light might be available again was mentioned to be January or even later or even discontinued altogether. I'll be honest I haven't really seen this level of scrutiny for other brands. Disappointing that the light isn't available for above reasons and may never be until the next iteration or maybe even that won't happen, who knows.


----------



## dubliftment

it is available at nkon.nl right now. these might be the last 30 available before a probable redesign or even the discontinuation of this light.


----------



## TCY

So there are many early adopters of this light returning it? I though most of us are pleased. I feel bad:sigh:


----------



## recDNA

TCY said:


> So there are many early adopters of this light returning it? I though most of us are pleased. I feel bad:sigh:


Obvious most are not pleased or they wouldn't be buried in returns.


----------



## noboneshotdog

I kept mine because there really isn't anything else quite like it out there right now. I just have to resist comparing it to the tints of other lights to be 100% happy with it.

Less the slight green tint this is definitely a winner.


----------



## neil944

I returned mine early on because of the greenish tint. But I recently found out that my Mom is looking for a good flood light for early morning walks. When I saw nkon had some in stock, I bit the bullet and ordered her one. Came out to $10 less than through ZL directly. Score!


----------



## dubliftment

I am really fed up with waiting, so I ordered another Fd from Nkon today. Got the shipping notice ONE HOUR later. (!!) This way I can compare and see if there is tint variation (in two random copies of course, but nevertheless.) And then one of them will make a good christmas present. 

The reason the shipping lasts that long I figured is this: they cought the Fd at costums and were totally blown away by this amazing light, checked out how long they can legally keep it "for inspection" and did so. And then someone probably lost it. I have never waited for a ZL light for more than two weeks (china to germany). this time its over three weeks and the tracking says: "in transit".


----------



## Connor

I recently bought a Manker MK34 and my need for floody high CRI flashlights was sated. Or so I thought. 
Just ordered the SC600Fd Mark III Plus from NKON. 

I'm so weak. :whoopin:


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Finally got mine today, almost 4 weeks from China. Took only 2 weeks when I ordered my SC600w Mk II L2 a year ago. 
Anyway, just got back from walking the dog tonight. The light is amazing!! Built like a tank, no green whatsoever, and CRI is very nice. 
Beam is very even and pleasing, much like my Astrolux S41 Nichia. I guess I won the tint lottery. Well done, Zebralight and Cree!!
I'm feeding it LG HE2 batteries, which have manganese (for a bit more safety) and can easily pump out the required amps.


----------



## TCY

Congrats, no green:twothumbs


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

TCY said:


> Congrats, no green:twothumbs



Your patience will be rewarded with a great tint, TCY.


----------



## StorminMatt

I had actually been regretting not having preordered this light from Zebralight before they discontinued it. So I just HAD to get one when I saw here that Nkon was actually selling them. Hopefully, I will luck out and get a good tint. Then again, even my S41 has a slightly greenish tint. And the SC600Fd will certainly have the advantage when it comes to efficiency and runtime.


----------



## Connor

http://www.zebralight.com/SC600Fd-Mk-III-Plus-XHP50-Floody-Neutral-White-18650-Flashlight_p_188.html

*"Availability: In Stock" 


*:wave: to the doomsday sayers 




Edit: Aaaaaaaaaand .. it's gone.


----------



## StandardBattery

Connor said:


> http://www.zebralight.com/SC600Fd-Mk-III-Plus-XHP50-Floody-Neutral-White-18650-Flashlight_p_188.html
> 
> *"Availability: In Stock"
> 
> 
> *:wave: to the doomsday sayers
> 
> 
> Edit: Aaaaaaaaaand .. it's gone.


But, it's "out-of-stock" rather than "not-for-sale" . Could be they had to answer too many questions about that also.  

I have my user, and my backup is in the mail so I'm set. It's a super light so I'm sure in some form it will be back, even if it takes a while.


----------



## noboneshotdog

StandardBattery said:


> But, it's "out-of-stock" rather than "not-for-sale" . Could be they had to answer too many questions about that also.
> 
> I have my user, and my backup is in the mail so I'm set. It's a super light so I'm sure in some form it will be back, even if it takes a while.



It was actually "in stock" about 2 hours ago.??? Weird....


----------



## wolfgaze

Can we see some more beamshots please? Particularly interested in seeing the beam at the Medium (100 lumen?) mode... Maybe an outdoor photo as well...


----------



## TCY

Flashlight Junkie said:


> Your patience will be rewarded with a great tint, TCY.



Is opening a bottle of champagne after getting my good tinted replacement overreacting:naughty:


----------



## TCY

So basically ZL has told me that they are unlikely to discontinue the Plus, it's just that they are too buy handling returns and replacements during holiday seasons. 

It's good to know that they are so confident: "_The SC600Fd III Plus is way ahead of its time, just like a lot of our other models when they first come out."

_I'm eager to see what they have to offer for 2017. I know that XHP50 gen2 (no cross like the gen 1!) is coming out so I asked ZL about it, but unfortunately ZL says that they are not planning to do a high CRI version, probably annoyed by us picky tint snobs.

BTW I'll take some indoor beamshots after I get my replacement.


----------



## psychbeat

I'd be so into a C version .... fingers crossed.


----------



## StorminMatt

psychbeat said:


> I'd be so into a C version .... fingers crossed.



So would I. But I'm still interested to see how the daylight version pans out for me. The light for it to beat is the S41. If the tint can equal or beat THAT light while also being more efficient (and I can't imagine that XHP50 being less efficient than quadruple 219s), I will consider it a worthwhile purchase.


----------



## hmihaylov

Mine was returned to ZL by the post service after a month of going in circles in China. And now I can't really make up my mind if I want it shipped again or I want my $99 back. :shrug:


----------



## Connor

My SC600Fd III Plus just arrived. Tint shots incoming when it's dark. :candle: (6h from or so)


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

StorminMatt said:


> So would I. But I'm still interested to see how the daylight version pans out for me. The light for it to beat is the S41. If the tint can equal or beat THAT light while also being more efficient (and I can't imagine that XHP50 being less efficient than quadruple 219s), I will consider it a worthwhile purchase.



Had my SC600Fd and S41 out last night. The S41 seems to throw a bit farther, but I think that's because the beam isn't quite as wide as the SC600Fd. Both have very similar tints, but if I'm being honest, the Fd just sits better in the hand and doesn't seem to get as hot. Just my initial observations. Also, and this might be my imagination because of the wide beam, but the Fd doesn't seem to be 1500 OTF lumens to me. When I put both lights 3 inches away from a white wall, output on both seem the same. Of course, the Fd is rated only 100 lumens more than the S41 and probably not a very noticeable difference.


----------



## Koam

TCY said:


> Is opening a bottle of champagne after getting my good tinted replacement overreacting:naughty:



Not at all. 





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----------



## TCY

Koam said:


> Not at all.



That tint:twothumbs


----------



## TCY

I just realised, the ZL spec sheet now has a "Macadam ellipse step" column right after nominal CCT. Probably tired of explaining what it is to dozens of people everyday lol.


----------



## Connor

Tint shots! 




^ Zebralight SC600w II L2 - Manker MK34 (Nichia 219b) - Zebralight SC600Fd III Plus
M1 - low - M1 settings (~60-100 lumens), white balance 5800°K ([email protected]), intentionally slightly underexposed





^ Zebralight SC600Fd III Plus (@M1, 5800°K)


I would describe the tint as a creamy neutral white with hints (and really just hints) of yellow/green at the low levels. In comparison the Manker with Nichia 219b LEDs is colder and greener at low levels. 
I'm quite happy with the light and the tint .. it's a keeper. :twothumbs


----------



## StorminMatt

Flashlight Junkie said:


> The S41 seems to throw a bit farther, but I think that's because the beam isn't quite as wide as the SC600Fd.



When it comes to the beam, wider is better for me. I like a light that can illuminate my feet while not needing to specifically aim at them. The S41 does this quite well. If the SC600Fd can also do this, I will be happy with the beam.


----------



## TCY

Connor said:


> I'm quite happy with the light and the tint .. it's a keeper.:twothumbs



Congrats! That tint definitely looks nice.:twothumbs


----------



## dubliftment

My first Fd Plus (from Nkon) arrived and after just an evening of first impressions I must say: W O W - what a light. It is simply outstanding. First: there is no green or greenish or the faintest hue of green in mine. My S41 is "greener", although I never considered it having a greenish tint. The Fd plus has a pure white beam with the slightest taste of golden in it, and a very even beam at that. OK, so much about the white wall question.

More importantly, with colors inside and outside: there remain no questions. It is just the best color rendition I have ever seen in a Flashlight. The brain is sort of hesitating to believe the information the eyes are giving, sort of doubting: no, it is not possible that there is sunlight coming out of a flashlight. It is so pleasing to shine at things. Finally the beam profile: this is certainly the floodiest flashlight I have. Beyond 50cm even the slightest idea of a hotspot is gone. so all you get is an evenly light area with true colors. 

The form factor is as great as in most ZL lights, but the SC600III series is my favourite so far. Very pleasing to hold.

Runtime on the 429Lm setting is good, the light just gets warm, no PID kicking in here (which I am glad of; this mode will be often used.) M1 (100Lm) is very pleasant. A lot of light evenly distributed. The lowest low has gone; spacing with the lowest L2ABC modes is closer. I can live with it, although I really love the very low 0,01-0,05Lm modes (other ZL still have them, so no problem.)

What is really nice with this light is room illumination. The light of this flashlight is so... pleasing. It reminds me of sunlight reflected by snow. I'll say it again after I said it concerning the H600Fc: Zebralight nailed it with this one. Glad I have a second Fd Plus coming...


----------



## Auringonvalo

I know this light is designed to be a floody light, but how far you can see with it? What kind of modification it would need to keep the highest 1500 Lm power until the battery is drained and without overheating?


----------



## Connor

Auringonvalo said:


> I know this light is designed to be a floody light, but how far you can see with it? What kind of modification it would need to keep the highest 1500 Lm power until the battery is drained and without overheating?



I fear it would have to be the bucket-with-ice-water mod.


----------



## StandardBattery

dubliftment said:


> My first Fd Plus (from Nkon) arrived and after just an evening of first impressions I must say: W O W - what a light. It is simply outstanding. ...


Great to hear you're happy with the light. 

NKON has not even sent my shippiong notice yet, but I had to got through the non-VAT channel so maybe that one is slower. I will send them email on Monday or Tuesday if I don't see it.


----------



## TCY

Congrats dubliftment, I hope mine has that sunlight tint as well.:thumbsup:

It's been a week since ZL shipped my replacement and tracking still doesn't say that the light has arrived in Australia yet. I wonder what's slowing EMS down.. should've paid the extra and let DHL deliver it.


----------



## Mr. Tone

Auringonvalo said:


> I know this light is designed to be a floody light, but how far you can see with it? What kind of modification it would need to keep the highest 1500 Lm power until the battery is drained and without overheating?



It actually illuminates a good area and, while not a thrower, gives plenty of distance for average use. If I had the ability to measure lux I would. I have many dedicated throwers but this light will get more use than any of my other lights.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Mr. Tone said:


> I have many dedicated throwers but this light will get more use than any of my other lights.



Ain't it the truth!

Dedicated throwers are really fun--nothing else has the same "WOW!" factor. But for actual use, most of us have no need of them. 

Unless you live on a big farm out in the country and routinely need to spot something 200 meters away, or do Search & Rescue, or work on a Coast Guard Patrol Boat, or do something else that involves trying to see things far away--well, there are just very few occasions when you will need to use a dedicated thrower. 

Look, my eyes hardly work on objects more than 100 meters away. Why should my flashlight? 

True, it is vastly entertaining to put a blob of light way, way over *there*. It's like reaching out and touching something, across the valley. But for 99% of my uses, I live in a world that is within my arm's length, or two arms' lengths, or 50 arms' lengths at most. 

I'm very happy with my SC600 Mk III HI, but I must say that these latest reports about the PLUS are tempting me to buy one....


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

dubliftment said:


> It is simply outstanding. The Fd plus has a pure white beam. It is just the best color rendition I have ever seen in a Flashlight. It is so pleasing to shine at things. Finally the beam profile: this is certainly the floodiest flashlight I have. Beyond 50cm even the slightest idea of a hotspot is gone. so all you get is an evenly light area with true colors. Very pleasing to hold.



My impressions as well.




Auringonvalo said:


> I know this light is designed to be a floody light, but how far you can see with it? What kind of modification it would need to keep the highest 1500 Lm power until the battery is drained and without overheating?



100 metres, I'd guess. I haven't had it on max for an extended time, but it doesn't get anywhere near as hot as my S41 (which has about the same max output). I honestly don't know how Zebralight keeps the heat down. One emitter vs four has gotta help.




lampeDépêche said:


> There are just very few occasions when you will need to use a dedicated thrower. I'm very happy with my SC600 Mk III HI, but I must say that these latest reports about the PLUS are tempting me to buy one.



Pull the trigger! The SC600Fd has a bright, smooth beam with amazing CRI and the flashlight sits comfortably in your hand. Just got back from walking my dog tonight. The red, yellow, and orange leaves just POP!!!


----------



## StorminMatt

Flashlight Junkie said:


> I haven't had it on max for an extended time, but it doesn't get anywhere near as hot as my S41 (which has about the same max output). I honestly don't know how Zebralight keeps the heat down. One emitter vs four has gotta help.



Not sure how much of a factor a single emitter vs four is when it comes to reduced heat. I'm guessing the MAJOR factor at work here is emitter efficiency. The Nichia 219A/B is well-known to be an inefficient emitter. This means it will generate excessive heat for the light output. If you are using FOUR of them in an effort to try to accomplish what a single, larger emitter could, you are going to be getting LOTS of heat. I'm guessing the XHP50 (even if high CRI) HAS to be ALOT more efficient. What would also be interesting would be to compare runtime.


----------



## psychbeat

Also, reflectors are quite a bit more efficient than plastic optics - even with the frosted lens.


----------



## dubliftment

I will do a runtime tests on H2b (429) and H2C (270Lm) with LG MJ1 3500mAh cells and report. Whatever the results, it will be hard to match the output of the S41 and Fd Plus in a way that a runtime comparison will have a valid result. For me, efficiency would not be the major aspect when deciding which light to grab. The ZL beats the S41 in size, weight, switch ergonomics and has at least the same CRI and (for me) equally good tint. So the question which light I prefer is already answered. Furthermore, the S41 with 18350 has practically no good runtime exept on low and it is already heavier than the Fd Plus. With an 18650 the ergonomics of the S41 are gone and only then we begin to talk about efficiency.

The Fd Plus beam profile however is really unique. The S41, due to TIR, has still some throw, but you really have to crank it up quite a bit to reach beyond 30m. The Fd Plus, on the contrary, makes no claims at all in the throw department. It has really a ball-shaped beam which I have never seen before. When I am standing in the door, I can immediately light up a whole room without moving the flashlight. When used in close range, it seems in the first instant as if the light comes from the bookshelf I am lighting and not from the flashlight. This is really something to get used to - and I like it. Nevertheless it is NOT as if there was just the LED as in the 60x series headlamps. You still can point at something with the Fd. But you don't have to. The Fd is brighter in the middle of the beam but there is practically no transition. This is what big emitter, heavy orange peel reflector and frosted lens are doing.

Especially outside, this on H1 and H2A (1500 and 660 Lm) illluminates an area of 15-20m so evenly with a daylight-like flood that going back to any other light I have just makes this other light seem inferior. it is like partly cutting into the dark vs. switching off the dark. If I ever had an abundance of light, than it is in the Fd plus. And this from a single emitter, pockatable 1x18650 light. Quite an achievement. For me it is a keeper for sure. And I will be cautious about lending this light to others. It is addicting.

Runtime test is going on @ 429Lm. Room temperature 20°C. Highest temperature of Fd Plus: 37°C. No PID kicking in. For comparison: SC62c max temp on H1 (320Lm): 43°C.

End result: Fd Plus stepped down to M1 after 2 hours and 54 minutes. Really, no kidding. This is EXACTLY the 2,9 hours that are stated on the ZL site. The LG MJ1 still had a resting voltage of 2,88V.

Standby drain, by the way, is 8µA with the Fd Plus. Compared to 14µA of the H600FcIII and 4µA of the SC600w II L2 somewhere in the middle.


----------



## The_Driver

StorminMatt said:


> Not sure how much of a factor a single emitter vs four is when it comes to reduced heat. I'm guessing the MAJOR factor at work here is emitter efficiency. The Nichia 219A/B is well-known to be an inefficient emitter. This means it will generate excessive heat for the light output. If you are using FOUR of them in an effort to try to accomplish what a single, larger emitter could, you are going to be getting LOTS of heat. I'm guessing the XHP50 (even if high CRI) HAS to be ALOT more efficient. What would also be interesting would be to compare runtime.



Sorry, but this is not really true. The XHP-50 with 90CRI is not that efficient. Of course the older LEDs from Nichia, especially the 219A are also not great in this regard. The current Nichia 219B-V1 and the newer 219C are actually pretty good though when you compare them to other LEDs with 90CRI. 

Mine is not green, but has the yellow Spot that most Cree LEDs produce. The frosted glass makes the tint more even though compared to other reflector lights with Cree LED (like the SC62w). The wider beam is very nice, but it causes me to use high powered settings compared to other lights which leads to shorter runtimes.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

All I know is that my S41 get hot enough to burn the skin off my fingers just as the 40-second output drop-off kicks in.
The Zebralight doesn't come anywhere near that temp at 40 seconds, so I'm guessing brightness can be maintained longer.
Where is Selfbuilt's review??? LOL.


----------



## dubliftment

Yes, obviously the XHP50 puts out less heat at 429Lm than the Luxeon T at 320Lm and the Luxeon has about the efficiency as the Nichia 219b if I remember this right. Because of that I never use my S41 on the turbo level, using 500-800Lm are suffcient from this light. With the Fd Plus, however I really like to pump out the max Lumens on H1.

I was thinking something else: since the PID didn't lower the lights output, it drew the full 429Lm current from the battery all 2,9 hours. Consequently, the 270Lm level, all other conditions remaining equal, should last for 4h36min instead of the 3,9 hours that ZL states. I will give it a try tomorrow.


----------



## Connor

dubliftment said:


> Consequently, the 270Lm level, all other conditions remaining equal, should last for 4h36min instead of the 3,9 hours that ZL states. I will give it a try tomorrow.



Power consumption at different levels isn't linear.


----------



## dubliftment

scs said:


> Just noticed that the 429 lumen level is also PID controlled. Does that mean that all the higher levels will step down below 429 lumens (how far below???) unless sufficient cooling is provided?



No. The 429Lm level never heated the flashlight over 37°C in the living room with 20°C. No PID. And runtime with LG MJ1 was exactly 2hrs 54minutes. I think the PID in this level is only there in case the flashlight is being used in higher ambient temperatures like 6pm jungle walks.

Right now I have the 270Lm runtime test going on. Light stays at 33°C and ist just hitting the 3 hour mark. It makes a very nice cooking light by the way if you magnet it over the kitchen stove on the extractor hood.

Edit: runtime test completed. Stepdown from 270Lm to M2 occurred at 4 hours and 31 minutes. This is way more than the 3.9hrs stated on the website. Same LG MJ1 was used fresh from the charger, now resting at 2.90V.

I will do more runtime tests, next is M1 (over night). With M2 (34Lm) I wait till my second Fd Plus has arrived. I wouldn't be able to just let this wonderful flashlight sit around for 35 hours (presumably more.)


----------



## lampeDépêche

dubliftment said:


> ...And runtime with LG MJ1 was exactly 2hrs 54minutes....



Just curious--what did it do after 2:54? Did it step down to a lower level? How far down? Did you let it run on that lower level for a while to see what it did after that?

I assume it keeps stepping down as needed, but I'd be curious to know how long it stretches out the process.


----------



## dubliftment

ZL lights always step down to the M (or L) level that you had used previosly. It is not like in PID that the light gradually becomes dimmer. So in my case it stepped down to M1 when I did the first runtime test on 429Lm and now to M2 because I had previosuly used this mode. The light will work for some time in these levels but don't expect much at a voltage of 2,90. It is time to recharge and I recharged for the next runtime test. I always want to use the same 18650 for this to start with the same capacity.


----------



## dubliftment

TCY said:


> When it comes to UI I would personally like this for a change.
> 
> Keep the 6 double clicks to switch between default secondary level, but double click and hold the second click (like you would do on UI3 if you have a M43) to cycle through available modes for this one time, do a normal double click to get back to main (H1, M1, L1) level.
> 
> Example: The H2 on your Plus is currently 429 lumens. Normal double clicks to switch between 1500 and 429. If you need 270 or 666 for one time without changing your default 429, double click but hold your second click to cycle through 270, 429 and 666, just like press & hold to cycle through low-mid-high like your Zebralight light does now. Double click again to go back to 1500. No mode memory for this feature.




This would not only make a good addition to the interface, but I would use this instead of the 6 doubleklicks for programming (i.e. if it is with memory).


----------



## dubliftment

Runtime on H1 (100Lm) 13hrs and 15min. LG MJ1 resting voltage 2,85V.


----------



## maukka

Got mine today. Its tint is very good. But the SC600w III HI I got too, is absolutely perfect. Both 4600K so compliment each other very nicely. CRI on the Plus is 91, on the HI 80.

The Duv value in the following measurements tell how far the tint is from the black body radiator line (perfect tint). I consider everything over 0.0100 very badly green, 0.0050-0.0100 adequate to mediocre, 0.0025-0.0050 good, <0.0025 excellent. If the value is negative, the tint is magenta/rosy.

*SC600Fd III Plus:*






*SC600w III HI*


----------



## P1X4R

These are all in stock now at the moment at Zebralight's website. Ugh. I'll have to resist for now. I already made some recent purchases.


----------



## psychbeat

Thanks for the test maukka!!


----------



## dubliftment

maukka said:


> Got mine today. Its tint is very good. But the SC600w III HI I got too, is absolutely perfect. Both 4600K so compliment each other very nicely. CRI on the Plus is 91, on the HI 80.
> 
> The Duv value in the following measurements tell how far the tint is from the black body radiator line (perfect tint). I consider everything over 0.0100 very badly green, 0.0050-0.0100 adequate to mediocre, 0.0025-0.0050 good, <0.0025 excellent. If the value is negative, the tint is magenta/rosy.


 Now I really would like to know how far the 3 or 5 steps of the McAdams Ellipse allows the tint of the individual flashlight to vary in this value from 0,0100 - 0


----------



## maukka

dubliftment said:


> Now I really would like to know how far the 3 or 5 steps of the McAdams Ellipse allows the tint of the individual flashlight to vary in this value from 0,0100 - 0



Just by approximating with Photoshop and its ruler using Cree's datasheets, at 5000 K I'd estimate about 0.0090 for the 3-step and 0.0130 for the 5-step. The ellipses get smaller on the warmer color temps. The 2-step gets you down to about 0.0050.

In short: the lottery is real


----------



## twistedraven

I like the SC600 HI so much now I kinda wanna buy like 5 and pick the one with the best tint then return the rest.


----------



## TCY

maukka thanks for testing, after all the subjective reviews it's nice to have an objective and quantified measure.

My replacement is on its way and I will have it today, so excited:naughty:


----------



## snowlover91

Great post as usual maukka. I find it interesting how some lights can have a better CRI but tint may not be as good as a light with lower CRI but better tint. How would you say the tint is in person when looking at the Plus? Any hint of green you can notice? The test results seem to indicate that would not be the case in your sample if I'm reading those charts right.


----------



## TCY

Just got mine 5 mins ago.

Basically I'm still not 100% happy with the replacement but its tint is way better than the one I returned. I was expecting a pure, 219b-ish white tint with no hue whatsoever (basically daydreaming) but this one has yellowish tint with I think a slight hint of green. It's visible on M/L levels but not distracting, when bumped to 1500 and 429 it is still visible but the tint surprisingly reminds me of 2-4pm sunlight (but less orange) which is good. Compared to @dubliftment's, I see more yellow on my sample, kinda feels like 219b with a lemon-yellow filter. While 219bs on both of my M43 and BLF348 produce purer white, the Plus I got might perform better for outdoors applications because of the extra yellow component.

tldr: I'm happy enough with the replacement and will call it a day. Time to look forward to ZL's 2017 lineup:naughty:


----------



## maukka

snowlover91 said:


> How would you say the tint is in person when looking at the Plus? Any hint of green you can notice? The test results seem to indicate that would not be the case in your sample if I'm reading those charts right.



If comparing to a perfectly neutral light, yes it looks greenish (ofc). If shone on a white wall, without a reference, maybe. In other cases, looks good to me. So could be better, as always. And as is the case with almost all LEDs, it gets greener in the lower output modes. It's the most neutral on H1. If I could choose, I would like a light that is perfectly tinted at mid-high and a bit rosy on turbo.


----------



## evgeniy

Thanks, maukka .


----------



## Mr. Tone

The biggest reason for the tint shift on Zebralights, in particular, is that the reflector gather so much of the high angle light that is very undesirable in tint. If you take a bare Cree LED you will see how the high angle light emitted near the plane of the substrate is usually very green and far different than the light coming out from the front of it. 

This light is no exception to this. When you look into the reflector when in a moonlight mode this is very noticeable. You will see the different tinted light surrounding the LED at the bottom of the reflector. That is the portion of the light that is most noticeable in the corona and hotspot. Since this light has the frosted lens and OP reflector it smooths it all together. This is a problem that is virtually eliminated with dome-less emitters, regardless of whether it is a factory HI or a de-domed LED. With a dome-less emitter, you will notice the tint is much more uniform throughout all portions of the beam: spill, corona, and hotspot.


----------



## The_Driver

Mr. Tone said:


> The biggest reason for the tint shift on Zebralights, in particular, is that the reflector gather so much of the high angle light that is very undesirable in tint. If you take a bare Cree LED you will see how the high angle light emitted near the plane of the substrate is usually very green and far different than the light coming out from the front of it.
> 
> This light is no exception to this. When you look into the reflector when in a moonlight mode this is very noticeable. You will see the different tinted light surrounding the LED at the bottom of the reflector. That is the portion of the light that is most noticeable in the corona and hotspot. Since this light has the frosted lens and OP reflector it smooths it all together. This is a problem that is virtually eliminated with dome-less emitters, regardless of whether it is a factory HI or a de-domed LED. With a dome-less emitter, you will notice the tint is much more uniform throughout all portions of the beam: spill, corona, and hotspot.


Exactly!
I wish Zebralight would do this (start with 5700K emitter).


----------



## Mr. Tone

The_Driver said:


> Exactly!
> I wish Zebralight would do this (start with 5700K emitter).



I have an Eagletac with a 5700K XP-L HI and it is a very nice tint and uniform, too.


----------



## noboneshotdog

This light is marked "not for sale" again on ZL website.
Hmmmmm???


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## TCY

It is supposed to be not for sale. ZL told me that "Our inventory system somehow automatically put the SC600Fd III Plus back in stock" so it's not back in the game yet.


----------



## noboneshotdog

TCY said:


> It is supposed to be not for sale. ZL told me that "Our inventory system somehow automatically put the SC600Fd III Plus back in stock" so it's not back in the game yet.



Gotcha, was wondering why the status kept changing.


----------



## StandardBattery

TCY said:


> It is supposed to be not for sale. ZL told me that "Our inventory system somehow automatically put the SC600Fd III Plus back in stock" so it's not back in the game yet.


Oh saved me some money. I was thinking about buying a backup to the backup. Been using this light on trails in fairly dense forest and it is fantastic, perfect light for this. It is also great for walking on dark streets that are not just nice, straight, and level.


----------



## TCY

StandardBattery said:


> Oh saved me some money. I was thinking about buying a backup to the backup. Been using this light on trails in fairly dense forest and it is fantastic, perfect light for this. It is also great for walking on dark streets that are not just nice, straight, and level.



LOL! You just can't stop buying backups:twothumbs

BTW any chance for some photos of the Plus performing in the forests?


----------



## Mr. Tone

I'm thinking about a backup, too.


----------



## Abacrombie

TCY said:


> It is supposed to be not for sale. ZL told me that "Our inventory system somehow automatically put the SC600Fd III Plus back in stock" so it's not back in the game yet.



I hope you are wrong. I ordered two of these just as they got back in stock again, they are shipped with DHL and will arrive on Monday (i think..  )​


----------



## TCY

Abacrombie said:


> I hope you are wrong. I ordered two of these just as they got back in stock again, they are shipped with DHL and will arrive on Monday (i think..  )​



Hmmm weird. Hope you get yours though, this is the best high CRI EDC light out there.


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## dubliftment

I think they are cherry-picking them now (to be in accordance with the 3-step-Mc Adam ellipse), therefore they are "not for sale" until january. And whenever a Fd plus returns the system automatically registers this as "stock". 

by the way, NKON has outsold their 30 pcs in less than a week.


----------



## TCY

dubliftment said:


> I think they are cherry-picking them now (to be in accordance with the 3-step-Mc Adam ellipse), therefore they are "not for sale" until january. And whenever a Fd plus returns the system automatically registers this as "stock".
> 
> by the way, NKON has outsold their 30 pcs in less than a week.



Am I hallucinating, or did most owners who bought from NKON won the tint lottery? I saw many positive feedbacks on Taschenlampen forum too.

BTW thank you for doing runtime tests. almost 3 hours straight on the 429lm and 4.5 hours on the 270lm is a pleasant surprise. Somehow I thought runtime would be a bit shorter than stated.


----------



## StorminMatt

TCY said:


> Am I hallucinating, or did most owners who bought from NKON won the tint lottery? I saw many positive feedbacks on Taschenlampen forum too.
> 
> BTW thank you for doing runtime tests. almost 3 hours straight on the 429lm and 4.5 hours on the 270lm is a pleasant surprise. Somehow I thought runtime would be a bit shorter than stated.



Well, I certainly HOPE all the lights from Nkon have good tints. Mine is currently shipping. So hopefully, I will find out soon. As for three hours at 429 lumens, that sounds GREAT! It certainly beats the pants off the Astrolux S41 at similar brightness levels.


----------



## TCY

StorminMatt said:


> Well, I certainly HOPE all the lights from Nkon have good tints. Mine is currently shipping. So hopefully, I will find out soon. As for three hours at 429 lumens, that sounds GREAT! It certainly beats the pants off the Astrolux S41 at similar brightness levels.



Hope yours have a great tint. My replacement has a yellowish tint but in real world applications it provides stunning visual info. 1500lm almost looks like sunlight. Who needs S41 when we have this :naughty:


----------



## Mr. Tone

TCY said:


> Hope yours have a great tint. My replacement has a yellowish tint but in real world applications it provides stunning visual info. 1500lm almost looks like sunlight. Who needs S41 when we have this :naughty:



Yes, and I have noticed that even in moonlight modes the difference is discernible. That's been a pleasant surprise since our eyes aren't very sensitive to color at low light levels. I am really loving this light.


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## dubliftment

TCY said:


> Hope yours have a great tint. My replacement has a yellowish tint but in real world applications it provides stunning visual info. 1500lm almost looks like sunlight. Who needs S41 when we have this :naughty:


 That's right. My replacement S41 has already gone. The other one is special because it has three Nichia 219b LEDs @4880K and one (219c?) @4000K. So although having a manufacturing error, this light is really amazing tint-wise. I used it as a reference for tint and color rendering. My Fd plus is really on par with it. So the S41 will become the bike light for slightly better throw. 

My backup Fd Plus from ZL still has not shown up, I am afraid it got lost. It has been over a month since ordering and shipping. I am really keen on comparing two of these lights. 

Efficiency with the Fd plus is a bit lower than my previous ZL lights, but satisfactory for me. The CRI and beam profile are so pleasing and it is running longer than the specs state. What I like and do most with this flashlight is using it stuck under the basecap as a makeshift headlamp. it is amazing to work free-hand with this kind of light. Detail and color are astonishing. I also noticed that the switch in my sample is the best of all ZL lights I have ever owned. Not as stiff as in my SC600II, nearly noiseless in operation, but with a very distict pressing point. The handling and EDC factor of this light is fantastic.

If there is one thing I would like to have changed, it is the accessability of the 429 and 270Lm at the same time. I swap them quite often. So ZL needs to release the programmability code. Or implemet what TCY has suggested. This would be an awesome feature and those who don't like it would not be disturbed by it.


----------



## Auringonvalo

I really hate gambling, but still ordered this light from NKON. It should arrive next week. Anyone know how much the returning costs are, if I send the light back from Finland?

What camera settings I should use to get proper white wall tint photos? Expose until something clips at base ISO? I have D3200 DSLR.

1500 Lm is indeed interesting, if considering the size and quality of the light, but I wonder how long it can go before overheating? At the moment the outside temperature is ~ -10 °C (~ 14 °F), but it can go as low as -35 °C (-31 °F).

Would it make any sense to keep the light on at low levels to produce a bit heat from the battery all the time at the outside because a cold battery can't give that much power and even though the battery could heat up fast, what problems a rapid temperature change can do to the battery?


----------



## TCY

Your best bet is CR123 based lights. Take NCR18650GA as an example, its minimum discharge temperature is -20 °C so if weather around you becomes extreme, it would simply stop working.

I wouldn't worry about heating up. With enough air flow, that kind of freezing temperature would cool down your light in seconds.


----------



## maukka

Auringonvalo said:


> I really hate gambling, but still ordered this light from NKON. It should arrive next week. Anyone know how much the returning costs are, if I send the light back from Finland?



I have only returned one ZL to nkon, but then I was advised to send the light to Akkula. I had to visit there anyways so for me the return didn't cost anything.


----------



## Connor

Auringonvalo said:


> What camera settings I should use to get proper white wall tint photos? Expose until something clips at base ISO? I have D3200 DSLR.
> 
> 1500 Lm is indeed interesting, if considering the size and quality of the light, but I wonder how long it can go before overheating? At the moment the outside temperature is ~ -10 °C (~ 14 °F), but it can go as low as -35 °C (-31 °F).
> 
> Would it make any sense to keep the light on at low levels to produce a bit heat from the battery all the time at the outside because a cold battery can't give that much power and even though the battery could heat up fast, what problems a rapid temperature change can do to the battery?



Most important for proper tint shots is a fixed/manual white balance. I set mine to 5800°K (sunlight at noon) when doing beam/tint shots. 

Low temperatures (sub zero) make LiIon batteries *very *inefficent. Keep the light close to your body (inside your jacket) when you are not using it and there should be no problems. 
Keeping it on on low won't help because there is hardly any heat produced. Never try to charge a "frozen" battery. 

At 21°C room temperature you can expect less than a minute of 1500 Lumens before the light steps down. Outside at Finnish winter temperatures you can expect it to stay much longer @1500 Lumens and very empty batteries very quickly. ;-)


----------



## recDNA

Sounds like I would be much better off with one of the 5700k models. I hate yellow as much as green


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## Connor

@recDNA

It's not really yellow or green, it's a creamy white. See http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...I-Plus-XHP50&p=4994648&viewfull=1#post4994648


----------



## drummer132132

Got my plus today. When I get a chance I'll make a video of the plus and other lights from zebralight with my dslr.

First impressions are the light is very nice. Best cri light I currently own. Must have gotten lucky with tint. I don't notice green on any modes indoor or outdoor. Will play with more extensively and double check tint. Either way I'm impressed. Does get hot quick on H1 but that is to be expected.


----------



## dubliftment

Second Fd Plus arrived from ZL. Here's a pic. Both lights are on H2B. White Balance is set to 4600K. 

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=42E7...21EE7!5837&parId=42E7C24BB6321EE7!139&o=OneUp


----------



## low

dubliftment said:


> Second Fd Plus arrived from ZL. Here's a pic. Both lights are on H2B. White Balance is set to 4600K.
> 
> https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=42E7...21EE7!5837&parId=42E7C24BB6321EE7!139&o=OneUp




Picture #8, the one in the middle looks just like my SC52d, purple spill, killer white hot spot.


----------



## dubliftment

low said:


> Picture #8, the one in the middle looks just like my SC52d, purple spill, killer white hot spot.


It is off-topic, but anyway: one in the middle is an astrolux A01 with Nichia 219b. One one the right is an SC62c. I have no other idea than including all the beamshots in the public folder of my one drive. There is also a comparison pic with the S41.


----------



## TCY

The right one has a pure white tint it seems? Man the lottery is real.


----------



## psychbeat

I don't really get why a "pure, white" beam is so desirable....
Is it at all a practical matter or entirely OCD-driven?
I know it's not a racial thing 

Outdoors in foggy dense vegetation on muddy trails my yellowy lights always seem to perform better than my rosier ones and of course way better than my cool whites.


----------



## TCY

psychbeat said:


> I don't really get why a "pure, white" beam is so desirable....
> Is it at all a practical matter or entirely OCD-driven?
> I know it's not a racial thing
> 
> Outdoors in foggy dense vegetation on muddy trails my yellowy lights always seem to perform better than my rosier ones and of course way better than my cool whites.



Don't get me wrong, I'm loving my yellow tint Plus, but I expect a high CRI LED to render colour as accurate as possible and no tint does it better than the pure white tint. That said, the yellow tint on my Plus is almost spot on, especially when lighting up grass and trees.


----------



## dubliftment

TCY said:


> The right one has a pure white tint it seems? Man the lottery is real.


 yes, you are right. the right one is from Nkon. I will not even keep the left one from ZL as replacement. right now it is doing the 34Lm runtime test for me and then it will head back to china. or anyone here wants to have it?


----------



## TCY

dubliftment said:


> yes, you are right. the right one is from Nkon. I will not even keep the left one from ZL as replacement. right now it is doing the 34Lm runtime test for me and then it will head back to china. or anyone here wants to have it?



Is it that disturbing? It only seems like a minor tint difference on that photo and is probably better than mine.

Should've ordered mine from Nkon...


----------



## TCY

Now that I think of it, it's such a shame to see ZL putting so much effort into this light and the LED singlehandedly screws it up. I guess ZL not willing to cherry pick the LEDs is a part of the problem but CREE is the one to blame. That said, if ZL starts to cheery pick the XHP50s used in the Plus and sell them at say $129 a pop, I would happily buy one and keep the one I got as a backup.


----------



## StorminMatt

TCY said:


> That said, if ZL starts to cheery pick the XHP50s used in the Plus and sell them at say $129 a pop, I would happily buy one and keep the one I got as a backup.



I'm actually quite surprised Zebralight is not doing this. The fact is, LOTS of people would actually be willing to pay extra for a better tint. It would certainly be better than getting a ton of returns (and losing money).


----------



## dubliftment

TCY said:


> Is it that disturbing? It only seems like a minor tint difference on that photo and is probably better than mine.
> 
> Should've ordered mine from Nkon...


 I am not sure all Nkons are that good, but it seems to be that way. And it seems as if I had received a returned sampl from ZL because they shipped it on the day of ordering although the website stated "back order". So it seems I did not get markr6 white one. the greenish balance is really visible to me on all levels, it is "creeping in" as someone here said. color rendering is still nice and others might not be distracted by the greenish hue. It might well be in the 3-step McAdam ellipse - it's just a guess as long maukka is not measuring this sample. 

That being said, I even might have kept it if it had been my only oder. but since I already lucked out one in the tint lottery... I am letting this one go and regard my H600Fc as companion and back up. Beam profile and color rendering are really equal in these lights. By the way, I also ordered a SC52Fw and got a real purple-pinkish sample. The frosted lens doesn't help much here, this one goes back as well. 

I thought they should make an SC63Fw HI with a dedomed XHP35 or - even better - an SC63Fc with the cree easy white emitter they used in other lights before. If they MUST use Cree for whatever reason.


----------



## TCY

StorminMatt said:


> I'm actually quite surprised Zebralight is not doing this. The fact is, LOTS of people would actually be willing to pay extra for a better tint. It would certainly be better than getting a ton of returns (and losing money).



Next time I buy a ZL light I'm probably going to order 5, pick the one with good tint and return the other 4. It sounds unethical to me but this is the only solution I could think of with ZL not cherry picking the LEDs and tint is so random. Although it's not perfect, I'm glad that the tint on the replacement worked out for me. I'm not prepared to spend another $40 on shipping and 5 weeks of waiting again.


----------



## TCY

dubliftment said:


> I am not sure all Nkons are that good, but it seems to be that way. And it seems as if I had received a returned sampl from ZL because they shipped it on the day of ordering although the website stated "back order". So it seems I did not get markr6 white one. the greenish balance is really visible to me on all levels, it is "creeping in" as someone here said. color rendering is still nice and others might not be distracted by the greenish hue. It might well be in the 3-step McAdam ellipse - it's just a guess as long maukka is not measuring this sample.
> 
> That being said, I even might have kept it if it had been my only oder. but since I already lucked out one in the tint lottery... I am letting this one go and regard my H600Fc as companion and back up. Beam profile and color rendering are really equal in these lights. By the way, I also ordered a SC52Fw and got a real purple-pinkish sample. The frosted lens doesn't help much here, this one goes back as well.
> 
> I thought they should make an SC63Fw HI with a dedomed XHP35 or - even better - an SC63Fc with the cree easy white emitter they used in other lights before. If they MUST use Cree for whatever reason.



I still prefer XHP50 for the higher max output (BTW I did some tests on H1, it stepsdown to ~500lm after a minute with around 25C room temperature and no airflow) but the SC63Fc sounds very nice. I know I'll get one if ZL actually makes something like this.


----------



## dubliftment

Something else I noticed with the new Fd Plus. I changed all my lights to 18650 High CRI lights this year, thus making the SC62c my new EDC (instead of SC52w). But now I feel the Fd Plus even less in the pocket although it is slightly thicker (same length). The form factor of the SC600 line is really amazing. Only light which can compete in size is the DQG Tiny 18650, which has a TIR lens and a self-adaptable battery tube and measures 87mm. But this light has really sharp edges and a flimsy switch which is hard to find just by feeling. ZL really has a leg up here, making the Fd Plus my new EDC for the moment. I think instead of searching for a High CRI EDC AA light I will sell my AA and 14500 Batteries and stick with the 18650-only setup.


----------



## dubliftment

would like to share runtime for 34Lm... but can't... light doesn't stop at 40 hours... need to leave the house now.


----------



## TCY

dubliftment said:


> would like to share runtime for 34Lm... but can't... light doesn't stop at 40 hours... need to leave the house now.



Still going strong at 34lm after 40 hours? Wonder why ZL is pretty conservative on medium level runtimes.


----------



## dubliftment

TCY said:


> Still going strong at 34lm after 40 hours? Wonder why ZL is pretty conservative on medium level runtimes.


 Yes, now going towards 42 hours without stepdown. I don't know why these runtimes are so inconsistent. When I tested SC600w HI and SC600w II L2 on the H2b Mode (312 and 330Lm), the HI stepped down at 4 hours (it should have been 4:20h) but the MK II version stepped down at 4:35h (should have been 3:54h) Of course it is nice if the light performs better than advertised. Except for the HI it was always that way for me.


----------



## Connor

dubliftment said:


> I don't know why these runtimes are so inconsistent.



Because every single LED is different (the forward voltage lottery is real, too).


----------



## dubliftment

34Lm Runtime is 45 hours straight, MJ1 resting voltage 2,72V


----------



## Tachead

dubliftment said:


> 34Lm Runtime is 45 hours straight, MJ1 resting voltage 2,72V




2.72V resting. That poor MJ1. Thanks for the testing though:thumbsup:. It's nice to see its above their rated spec.


----------



## shira

I'm not sure if anyone else has already posted this, but there's a Buy it Now (with free shipping) listing on Ebay for the Zebralight SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50. The listing says that "More than 10" are available. The price is $114, but with the "Make Offer" option available. I offered $107.50, which was accepted.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zebralight-...558105?hash=item2a74c2ecd9:g:ZQwAAOSwB09YIiIj


----------



## Tachead

shira said:


> I'm not sure if anyone else has already posted this, but there's a Buy it Now (with free shipping) listing on Ebay for the Zebralight SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50. The listing says that "More than 10" are available. The price is $114, but with the "Make Offer" option available. I offered $107.50, which was accepted.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zebralight-...558105?hash=item2a74c2ecd9:g:ZQwAAOSwB09YIiIj



Yeah, that's Andrew and Amanda and they have had it in stock for a while. They have a website if you don't want to deal with ebay. Why did you not offer the $99 that ZL charges for it might I ask? It seams weird that they are asking $15 more then the list price.


----------



## StorminMatt

Tachead said:


> It seams weird that they are asking $15 more then the list price.



Probably because they're the last remaining source of a light that Zebralight has stopped selling and which they may possibly not bring back. I'm sure they figure that, if people want the light badly enough, they will pay.


----------



## Tachead

StorminMatt said:


> Probably because they're the last remaining source of a light that Zebralight has stopped selling and which they may possibly not bring back. I'm sure they figure that, if people want the light badly enough, they will pay.



They have the same price listed for the HI as well. And, ZL has said they will likely be continuing production in January. Although, it doesnt seem like a very popular model anyway.


----------



## eraursls1984

StorminMatt said:


> Probably because they're the last remaining source of a light that Zebralight has stopped selling and which they may possibly not bring back. I'm sure they figure that, if people want the light badly enough, they will pay.


That always have Zebralights listed well above MSRP. Zebralights have very low margins, thats why you don't see many dealers for them, and probably why they always list higher than MSRP.


----------



## dubliftment

Tachead said:


> They have the same price listed for the HI as well. And, ZL has said they will likely be continuing production in January.


 That's right, when I recently asked about possible plans for an High CRI SC63, the answer was: "Sorry, we don't have plans for an SC63Fc or SC63Fd. The only other option is the SC600Fd III Plus. *We will resume SC600Fd III Plus sales in January next year.*" 

This light is so amazing, they certainly will figure out how to get rid of the very greenish ones and then go with it. Honestly, I am actually spoiled by this light for pretty much anything else by ZL except the H600Fc/d III. I am not able to use my SC600w II any longer, I can not stand the tint and beam profile of the SC600wIII I recently got and I certainly will not buy any other XM-L light EVER. So all I will keep is the Astrolux S41, the two headlamps mentioned above, the Jaxman E2 and the SC62c.


----------



## TCY

dubliftment said:


> That's right, when I recently asked about possible plans for an High CRI SC63, the answer was: "Sorry, we don't have plans for an SC63Fc or SC63Fd. The only other option is the SC600Fd III Plus. *We will resume SC600Fd III Plus sales in January next year.*"
> 
> This light is so amazing, they certainly will figure out how to get rid of the very greenish ones and then go with it. Honestly, I am actually spoiled by this light for pretty much anything else by ZL except the H600Fc/d III. I am not able to use my SC600w II any longer, I can not stand the tint and beam profile of the SC600wIII I recently got and I certainly will not buy any other XM-L light EVER. So all I will keep is the Astrolux S41, the two headlamps mentioned above, the Jaxman E2 and the SC62c.



Once you dive into the world of high CRI there is no going back:naughty:


----------



## StandardBattery

I got my backup from Nkon -- Perfect! No worries about losing my EDC now (not that it has ever happened before), but peace of mind is worth a lot these days. Just may be the best EDC flashlight ever made!


----------



## dubliftment

Congratulations! Are your two copies really of exactly the same tint? Anyhow, Nkon really seems to have gotten the tint-selected second batch. Only flashlight that could be a competitor to my Fd Plus would be a High CRI SC63Fd/c with programmable UI.


----------



## StandardBattery

My two copies seem to have pretty much identical tints. I only played with the new one for 5min, and about 1min side-by-side on white wall at a couple different output levels.


----------



## Tachead

So, what's the better EDC guys? This or the SC600w MKIII HI? If you could only have one which would it be? What kind of useful range does the plus get? Does anyone have some outdoor screenshots? Thanks.


----------



## noboneshotdog

Tachead said:


> So, what's the better EDC guys? This or the SC600w MKIII HI? If you could only have one which would it be? What kind of useful range does the plus get? Does anyone have some outdoor screenshots? Thanks.



I have the FD PLUS only. It is a terrific work light as it cuts back on the glare that a hot spot puts off. It definitely is not a thrower in any regard though. 

For every day carry I bring my EagleTac TX25C2vn with me. As I feel especially for edc outdoor use I prefer a little more throw. 

I personally feel the FD PLUS is more of a specialized light. A fantastic one at that. But if your looking for an all around light I personally would point you to something other due to its lack of throw.


----------



## Connor

Tachead said:


> What kind of useful range does the plus get?



I'd say it's pretty nice within 25 meters (of course it reaches a bit farther).


----------



## TCY

Tachead said:


> So, what's the better EDC guys? This or the SC600w MKIII HI? If you could only have one which would it be? What kind of useful range does the plus get? Does anyone have some outdoor screenshots? Thanks.



I don't have a HI to work with so my opinion is based on my speculation of the HI: SC62w but smaller hotspot, throwier and a whiter tint.

I would take the Plus with me, given that I could only pick one. I don't have a need for very throwy lights and the Plus can reach out a bit on the 1500lm level (at the cost of burning through battery and getting very hot in just a minute) just fine. For close up works e.g. back packing, finding stuff at night or just a general light source the floody beam profile is perfect. You see everything in front of you without getting that tunnel vision.

Tint can be an issue if you are unlucky like me and getting that annoying green hue. I sent it back for a replacement and the new one I got is still a bit yellowish on lower levels, but it becomes surprisingly pleasant at night. Imagine a soothing, creamy yellow beam that still has great color rendering properties. 

For some outdoor beamshots refer to http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...600Fd-Mk-III-Plus-first-impression-(pic-heavy) if you haven't seen it already. Keep in mind that the Plus in the photo is the original one with the green hue, the replacement I got is much nicer.

Taschenlampen forum has a few outdoor beamshots too. http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/zebralight-sc600f-d-mkiii-plus.50449/page-4


----------



## drummer132132

I have an hi and the plus. If I had to choose just one it would be the hi.


----------



## Auringonvalo

I got mine from NKON and it has light goldish tint (light creamy yellow, a bit like the golden hour at the summer) at least with 429 Lm and below that. Very hard to notice at 1500 Lm and 666 Lm. I haven't seen any green.


----------



## Tachead

OK thanks guys:thumbsup:. I figured the HI would be a better all around light. The Plus would be too close to my H600Fd MKIII I think anyway and I would much rather wear a headlamp for medium to close range work and then combine it with a small throwy light. And, its a bit on the cool side for me as well anyway. I think I will just wait and see what ZL comes out with this year. I would like to see a high CRI version of the SC63 with a clear lens, orange peel reflector, at around 4000K, no cooler then 4500K(a SC63c if you will).


----------



## TCY

Since you own a H600Fd already the Plus would be a little redundant indeed. SC64d/c FTW.


----------



## markr6

The SC600F III is now up for pre order. Estimated to ship Nov. 30


----------



## dubliftment

I will take a pass on that one. My Jaxman E2 has 5700K CCT and I only keep it because it is High CRI. Otherwise I am done with cool white lights. Hoping for a High CRI SC64Fd @5000K though.


----------



## Connor

markr6 said:


> The SC600F III is now up for pre order. Estimated to ship Nov. 30



I really cannot imagine why *anyone *would choose 1800 lumens/CRI *70 *over 1500 lumens/CRI 93-95. 
Makes no sense at all in a pure flooder like this one.


----------



## lampeDépêche

Connor said:


> I really cannot imagine why *anyone *would choose 1800 lumens/CRI *70 *over 1500 lumens/CRI 93-95.
> Makes no sense at all in a pure flooder like this one.



Well, lots of un-enlightened folks choose on the basis of max output--1800 is a very impressive number! 

I agree that anyone who has spent some time with Hi CRI lights will not make the trade of 20% more lumens for 25% less CRI.

But ZL has to sell to a market that includes lots more people than you and me. And they need to make sales to people who don't read CP Forums. If those folks are willing to subsidize ZL's bottom line so that ZL can make Hi CRI lights for us, then I'm happy to have them do it.


----------



## markr6

Connor said:


> I really cannot imagine why *anyone *would choose 1800 lumens/CRI *70 *over 1500 lumens/CRI 93-95.
> Makes no sense at all in a pure flooder like this one.



I didn't like the high cri version, so I definitely wouldn't want this one...even if someone gave it to me. Seriously!


----------



## lampeDépêche

markr6 said:


> I didn't like the high cri version, so I definitely wouldn't want this one...even if someone gave it to me. Seriously!



Darn it, mark--I was just about to give you that for Christmas, and now I have to find a new gift! 

Some people are so hard to please....


----------



## StorminMatt

lampeDépêche said:


> But ZL has to sell to a market that includes lots more people than you and me. And they need to make sales to people who don't read CP Forums. If those folks are willing to subsidize ZL's bottom line so that ZL can make Hi CRI lights for us, then I'm happy to have them do it.



Then again, who are these 'people who don't read CP Forums' who would buy Zebralight? It's not like you can pick up a Zebralight at the local Home Depot. I myself never even HEARD of Zebralight until I came to this forum, and I would suspect pretty much NOBODY outside of here has either. Not to mention that your average Joe who wants a flashlight just isn't going to pay $100 for one. Or buy one that can't use alkaleaks.


----------



## noboneshotdog

StorminMatt said:


> Then again, who are these 'people who don't read CP Forums' who would buy Zebralight? It's not like you can pick up a Zebralight at the local Home Depot. I myself never even HEARD of Zebralight until I came to this forum, and I would suspect pretty much NOBODY outside of here has either. Not to mention that your average Joe who wants a flashlight just isn't going to pay $100 for one. Or buy one that can't use alkaleaks.



BLF. And that isn't a diss. I go there from time to time as well. 
Personally I'm high CRI all the way.


----------



## TCY

Meh, pass. For someone who doesn't care about high CRI, 500lm for almost 3 hours straight might sound pretty good. For tint snobs on this forum, we either got the Fd version or we are like markr6, waiting for next gen ZL offering.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

Has anyone tested the Plus for lumen output yet? Are we really getting 1500 OTF lumens? Don't get me wrong, I love my Plus, but when I compare it with the S41 Nichia (1400 lumens rated) the S41 seems a bit brighter. Both lights had fully charged LG HE2 batts. Also, the Plus doesn't get anywhere near as hot as the S41 (a good thing). If I had to guess, I'd say max output on mine is about 1350 lumens.


----------



## staticx57

The S41 and III Plus have completely different beam patterns and you can't judge brightness this way. A thrower light will appear brighter even if the lumens are lower


----------



## TCY

staticx57 said:


> The S41 and III Plus have completely different beam patterns and you can't judge brightness this way. A thrower light will appear brighter even if the lumens are lower



This. I recall a guy at Taschenlampen forum measured 1510 lumens on his plus.


----------



## Flashlight Junkie

staticx57 said:


> The S41 and III Plus have completely different beam patterns and you can't judge brightness this way. A thrower light will appear brighter even if the lumens are lower



No, I get that. However, the beam patters from both these lights is very similar. The S41 has a tad more throw. I had both these lights up to a white wall from a few inches, then I shined them down the basement stairs. Just seems the Plus was brighter at everything, including ceiling bounce. Where the heck is Selfbuilt? Thought he'd be all over this by now.


----------



## recDNA

psychbeat said:


> I don't really get why a "pure, white" beam is so desirable....
> Is it at all a practical matter or entirely OCD-driven?
> I know it's not a racial thing
> 
> Outdoors in foggy dense vegetation on muddy trails my yellowy lights always seem to perform better than my rosier ones and of course way better than my cool whites.


It's a good point. Even green light may be good in those conditions. I use my lights indoors most of the time so for me it isn't a consideration. I simply like sunlight at noon type color which isn't yellow nor green. Just personal choice. Outdoors almost nothing is blue so it isn't very important how well blue is reflected. Indoors many things are blue and I like them to look blue. I like white walls to look white not yellow nor green. All depends how you use your lights I think.


----------



## StorminMatt

Flashlight Junkie said:


> No, I get that. However, the beam patters from both these lights is very similar. The S41 has a tad more throw. I had both these lights up to a white wall from a few inches, then I shined them down the basement stairs. Just seems the Plus was brighter at everything, including ceiling bounce. Where the heck is Selfbuilt? Thought he'd be all over this by now.



Then again, the lumen ratings are really close. This means that it is quite possible that variation from one light to another within each model could possibly make one's particular sample of the S41 brighter than their sample of the SC600Fd.


----------



## markr6

I just noticed the SC600Fd Plus is back up on the main page of zebralight.com. I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything; could just be some quirk or change to their ecommerce system and how it sorts. But it could also mean something else. But still labeled "Not For Sale" at this time.


----------



## StorminMatt

After WEEKS of waiting, I FINALLY got my SC600Fd from Nkon. And it looks like those rumors of Nkon getting good tints are true. Mine is just about perfect - it easily puts my S41 to shame. It's about as close to pure white as you can get. And compared to the S41, it runs longer and cooler. And it certainly produces a better beam. In any case, it looks like I have a new favorite light. Here are a few pics from hiks I took with it just using my iPhone.
































These pictures are all 'as shot' from my iPhone. They are not edited in any way.


----------



## Mr. Tone

^

Those are some fantastic beamshots, thanks. I am still loving mine and it has been the best general purpose light I have had. The beam is so useful and the tint, cri, and modes all make this a great light. This also is the best light I have used for night adapted eyes with the smooth wide beam coupled with the sub-lumen levels.


----------



## tops2

Thanks for the pictures. Especially for the 4th and 5th pictures, the colors looks awesome!


----------



## psychbeat

^^^^Great pics!Good swimming in that area... & bike shuttles too 

Still holding out for a "C" tinted version.


----------



## Tachead

Mr. Tone said:


> ^
> 
> Those are some fantastic beamshots, thanks. I am still loving mine and it has been the best general purpose light I have had. The beam is so useful and the tint, cri, and modes all make this a great light. *This also is the best light I have used for night adapted eyes with the smooth wide beam coupled with the sub-lumen levels.*



You must not have tried a warmer light then? You should try a "c" model ZL or something even warmer. 5000K is terrible for night adapted eyes compared to warmer colour temperatures. I agree on the smooth beam the frosted lens creates though. And, always appreciate ZL's very low sub lumen options for late at night.


----------



## Tachead

psychbeat said:


> ^^^^Great pics!Good swimming in that area... & bike shuttles too
> 
> *Still holding out for a "C" tinted version.*



+1


----------



## StorminMatt

Tachead said:


> You must not have tried a warmer light then? You should try a "c" model ZL or something even warmer. 5000K is terrible for night adapted eyes compared to warmer colour temperatures. I agree on the smooth beam the frosted lens creates though. And, always appreciate ZL's very low sub lumen options for late at night.



The 'c' tint is certainly a nice one. The problem, however, is that Zebralight just doesn't put it in a package I entirely like. You have the H600Fc. But the problem there is that it's a headlamp. Some consider this ideal for hiking. But I don't really like headlamps for hiking. Otherwise, you have to go for the dim and short-running SC5Fc. Why Zebralight never chose to use this emitter in a handheld 18650 light is beyond me.


----------



## TCY

Thanks for the pictures. I had a couple chances to do some 10 minute night walks and my slightly yellowish tinted Plus is simply awesome. Maybe mine is close to the 4000K C version everyone is after


----------



## Tachead

TCY said:


> Thanks for the pictures. I had a couple chances to do some 10 minute night walks and my slightly yellowish tinted Plus is simply awesome. Maybe mine is close to the 4000K C version everyone is after



Do to the rather tight binning tolerances of the XHP50 used in this light the warmest it could be is about 4875K. Although, maukka's measured at 4634K so, maybe ZL is using emitters from more then one bin or that was just measuring equipment variances. There is no way it could be 4000K though because even the 4500K 3-step bin won't be any warmer then about 4375K.


----------



## Tachead

StorminMatt said:


> After WEEKS of waiting, I FINALLY got my SC600Fd from Nkon. And it looks like those rumors of Nkon getting good tints are true. Mine is just about perfect - it easily puts my S41 to shame. It's about as close to pure white as you can get. And compared to the S41, it runs longer and cooler. And it certainly produces a better beam. In any case, it looks like I have a new favorite light. Here are a few pics from hiks I took with it just using my iPhone.
> 
> These pictures are all 'as shot' from my iPhone. They are not edited in any way.



Thanks for the pics:thumbsup:


----------



## Mr. Tone

Tachead said:


> You must not have tried a warmer light then? You should try a "c" model ZL or something even warmer. 5000K is terrible for night adapted eyes compared to warmer colour temperatures. I agree on the smooth beam the frosted lens creates though. And, always appreciate ZL's very low sub lumen options for late at night.



I agree about preference for warmer CCT at low levels. Nearly all of my lights are 4500K or less and some are even less than 4000K. Keep in mind that since this Zebralight is current controlled, the CCT drops as the current is reduced. There is a very noticeable difference in the CCT of this light at the low levels vs. max levels. PWM lights don't have the CCT change much if any as the perceived output is changed. 

What's surprising about this light is that I can actually discern some color at the sub-lumen levels, which is not something I'm used to. All my other sub-lumen lights appear more monochromatic to my dark adapted eyes. I know that our eyes are much less sensitive to color differences at low light levels but I can perceive a difference with this light. None of my Nichia hi CRI lights are capable of sub-lumen levels so I don't have the ability to make direct comparisons with those.


----------



## TCY

Tachead said:


> Do to the rather tight binning tolerances of the XHP50 used in this light the warmest it could be is about 4875K. Although, maukka's measured at 4634K so, maybe ZL is using emitters from more then one bin or that was just measuring equipment variances. There is no way it could be 4000K though because even the 4500K 3-step bin won't be any warmer then about 4375K.



My point was that my sample is warmer than the normal 5000K out there. Oh how I wish my Plus has a true 4000K emitter in it..


----------



## Tachead

TCY said:


> My point was that my sample is warmer than the normal 5000K out there. Oh how I wish my Plus has a true 4000K emitter in it..



Yeah, hopefully ZL will make a "c" version. The 4000K bin is also available in a 2-step which would mean even better tint consistency.


----------



## dubliftment

Tachead said:


> Yeah, hopefully ZL will make a "c" version. The 4000K bin is also available in a 2-step which would mean even better tint consistency.


 I'd certainly be in for one as well since ZL is definately not going to make a High CRI SC63c/d.


----------



## lampeDépêche

So the ZL site says "not for sale." 

Is there anywhere on the web that one can still purchase these?


----------



## StorminMatt

lampeDépêche said:


> So the ZL site says "not for sale."
> 
> Is there anywhere on the web that one can still purchase these?



It looks like the only place you can currently get this light is Andrew and Amanda's. Or maybe the random eBay seller.


----------



## Shoopmonster

The light is currently available for backorder on ZL's site. I placed and order and it went through. No idea if it was an accident or for real.


----------



## fnj

As of one minute ago on the Zebralight site it was marked "back order", not "not for sale sale".


----------



## markr6

fnj said:


> As of one minute ago on the Zebralight site it was marked "back order"




I'm seeing backorder too. Maybe it's even better and improved this time around  Personally I thought my original light was prefect. Just too floody for me.


----------



## Shoopmonster

I got a shipping notification, so *fingers crossed*


----------



## jgmoosehunter

I am brand new to this forum. I would appreciate advice on what exact battery set up and what charger you guys might recommend for this light. I have been lurking for a couple weeks now and I am absolutely fascinated by all the technology and wealth of knowledge I have read here so far. What an outstanding forum! In 2 weeks I have purchased a Thrunite TN4A Hi Neutral, and a Nitecore MH20GT XP-L, well because I just could not resist the impulse! Hanging around here could be some serious trouble. Help!

Thanks for any input!
JGmoosehunter


----------



## markr6

IN STOCK as of...right now


----------



## eraursls1984

markr6 said:


> IN STOCK as of...right now


So is the cool white version.


----------



## TCY

jgmoosehunter said:


> I am brand new to this forum. I would appreciate advice on what exact battery set up and what charger you guys might recommend for this light. I have been lurking for a couple weeks now and I am absolutely fascinated by all the technology and wealth of knowledge I have read here so far. What an outstanding forum! In 2 weeks I have purchased a Thrunite TN4A Hi Neutral, and a Nitecore MH20GT XP-L, well because I just could not resist the impulse! Hanging around here could be some serious trouble. Help!
> 
> Thanks for any input!
> JGmoosehunter



:welcome:

For this light I use Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA, this is the battery Zebralight uses for runtime tests. there are other good options out there but general requirements are: unprotected battery, flat head with 65.0mm-65.2mm length and able to handle at least 8A current. If you read the ZL SC600 Fd III Plus issues thread you'll notice that OP uses 18650B for this light which does not meet the discharge requirements (and hence, more likely to cause problems if he uses that 1500lm mode.)

There is no "standard" charger set up. Lots of good chargers out there with different features and prices. http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers UK.html is a very good site to hunt for reviews: use the ctrl+F function wisely. I personally use a Xtar VC4 and have no complaints.


----------



## StorminMatt

jgmoosehunter said:


> I am brand new to this forum. I would appreciate advice on what exact battery set up and what charger you guys might recommend for this light. I have been lurking for a couple weeks now and I am absolutely fascinated by all the technology and wealth of knowledge I have read here so far. What an outstanding forum! In 2 weeks I have purchased a Thrunite TN4A Hi Neutral, and a Nitecore MH20GT XP-L, well because I just could not resist the impulse! Hanging around here could be some serious trouble. Help!
> 
> Thanks for any input!
> JGmoosehunter



I have a variety of batteries that I use with this light. For instance, I have some of the recommended NCR18650GA. But I also have some NCR18650BD (earlier 3200mAH 10A cells), Samsung 35E, LG HG2 cells and Sony VTC6. So you are by no means wedded to the NCR18650GA. It's a solid recommendation. But any cell capable of providing the necessary current will do. As for chargers, there are LOTS of choices here as well. I have a few of the Xtar chargers, including the SV2, VC4, VC2 Plus Master, VP2, and MC1 Plus. These chargers all meet different needs, so you might want to look into each one (as well as other brands) to see which best meet your needs. I should also note tha Illumn has a pretty good sale going on right now on Xtar chargers, so maybe pick up a couple (or more).


----------



## noboneshotdog

jgmoosehunter said:


> I am brand new to this forum. I would appreciate advice on what exact battery set up and what charger you guys might recommend for this light. I have been lurking for a couple weeks now and I am absolutely fascinated by all the technology and wealth of knowledge I have read here so far. What an outstanding forum! In 2 weeks I have purchased a Thrunite TN4A Hi Neutral, and a Nitecore MH20GT XP-L, well because I just could not resist the impulse! Hanging around here could be some serious trouble. Help!
> 
> Thanks for any input!
> JGmoosehunter



Zebralight sells the battery for this on thier sight as well. So just add a couple at check out. Simple.


----------



## jgmoosehunter

Thank you all kindly for the welcome and replies! I am pumped to see this little rascal perform! This stuff is truly addicting. The wife already thinks I am a freak as I took the Thrunite to bed with me the first day i received it - (night stand only!). But.. she knew that well before she married me, so it's absolutely her fault!

jgmoose


----------



## tops2

jgmoosehunter said:


> Thank you all kindly for the welcome and replies! I am pumped to see this little rascal perform! This stuff is truly addicting. The wife already thinks I am a freak as I took the Thrunite to bed with me the first day i received it - (night stand only!). But.. she knew that well before she married me, so it's absolutely her fault!
> 
> jgmoose



Enjoy the ride! It's good to get to Zebralight early. If you end up loving it, it may save you money by reducing interest in other lights! But then you may end up with multiple Zebralights... 

I know there's so many choices. So to simplify, the Sanyo GAs is a solid choice that many (including me) own. Even though I own the Nitecore D4, my most used li-ion charger is actually the Xtar ANT MC1 plus cause I keep it at work and charge/top off the battery and can keep an eye on it at work. The ANT MC1 plus has worked reliably for me. Illumn has a sale on this charger, and their price for the GAs is really good.


----------



## jgmoosehunter

I am looking for a small, powerful EDC unit, more of a floody work light than throw. I must admit after reading about the issues some are experiencing with the SC600Fd III XHP50, would a better "entry level" Zebralight for EDC maybe be the SC600wMk II 18650 XM-L2? Sacrifice a little size and lumens, but seems like this one USED to be everybody"s go-to, with very little issues. Thoughts? 

jgmoose


----------



## eraursls1984

jgmoosehunter said:


> I am looking for a small, powerful EDC unit, more of a floody work light than throw. I must admit after reading about the issues some are experiencing with the SC600Fd III XHP50, would a better "entry level" Zebralight for EDC maybe be the SC600wMk II 18650 XM-L2? Sacrifice a little size and lumens, but seems like this one USED to be everybody"s go-to, with very little issues. Thoughts?


Well the SC62w and SC63w are smaller than the SC600's so they are easier for EDC for me. The SC600 and SC62/63 have "general purpose" beams with the 62/63 having a little more flood. Unless you need the the highest mode for a couple minutes instead of a minute at a time the 62/63 sounds like it would work for you.


----------



## tops2

jgmoosehunter said:


> I am looking for a small, powerful EDC unit, more of a floody work light than throw. I must admit after reading about the issues some are experiencing with the SC600Fd III XHP50, would a better "entry level" Zebralight for EDC maybe be the SC600wMk II 18650 XM-L2? Sacrifice a little size and lumens, but seems like this one USED to be everybody"s go-to, with very little issues. Thoughts?
> 
> jgmoose



I second eraursls1984's recommendation too. The SC62w/63w is more pocket friendly while having nice flood and long enough throw. I think especially if you plan to pocket EDC the light, it may be pretty noticeable to you the diameter and weight reduction vs the larger SC600w. If you're working with close to medium distance, the output of the SC62w/63w should be more than enough. The SC62w is on sale/clearance at Zebralight's website..but its been backordered for a while so not sure when they'll get it again.

If you still want to try a high CRI, but don't mind even more loss in lumens and throw...and don't mind a right angled light (a headlamp), the Zebralight H600Fc/d are solid choices as well. I personally have the H600Fd and its my favorite light. When paired with a clip (I use the Armytek Wizard Pro clip that you can buy else where), a right angled light is pretty versatile. Granted, for longer walks, its more awkward to hand hold a headlamp. Just keep in mind though you lose a lot of throw with the frosted lens (less throw than the SC62w/63w).


----------



## jgmoosehunter

tops2 said:


> I second eraursls1984's recommendation too. The SC62w/63w is more pocket friendly while having nice flood and long enough throw. I think especially if you plan to pocket EDC the light, it may be pretty noticeable to you the diameter and weight reduction vs the larger SC600w. If you're working with close to medium distance, the output of the SC62w/63w should be more than enough. The SC62w is on sale/clearance at Zebralight's website..but its been backordered for a while so not sure when they'll get it again.
> 
> If you still want to try a high CRI, but don't mind even more loss in lumens and throw...and don't mind a right angled light (a headlamp), the Zebralight H600Fc/d are solid choices as well. I personally have the H600Fd and its my favorite light. When paired with a clip (I use the Armytek Wizard Pro clip that you can buy else where), a right angled light is pretty versatile. Granted, for longer walks, its more awkward to hand hold a headlamp. Just keep in mind though you lose a lot of throw with the frosted lens (less throw than the SC62w/63w).



Then it's settled...I'LL BUY BOTH !! This is like having keys to an EXPENSIVE CANDY STORE around here !! Where's Gene Wilder?


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## tops2

jgmoosehunter said:


> Then it's settled...I'LL BUY BOTH !! This is like having keys to an EXPENSIVE CANDY STORE around here !! Where's Gene Wilder?



(Un)fortunately (?), that's the correct answer.


----------



## jgmoosehunter

Well, guys, it's all your fault! Went ahead and bought the ZL SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50 Floody Neutral White. Reason!? It was in stock!! HA!! Also went to Illumn and bought 2 Xtar ANT MC1 plus chargers. Great price on those there! I want to thank everyone who responded to my ??'s and made this rookie feel welcome here! 

Excited about FLASHLIGHTS?? WHO KNEW?!!!
jgmoose


----------



## noboneshotdog

jgmoosehunter said:


> Well, guys, it's all your fault! Went ahead and bought the ZL SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50 Floody Neutral White. Reason!? It was in stock!! HA!! Also went to Illumn and bought 2 Xtar ANT MC1 plus chargers. Great price on those there! I want to thank everyone who responded to my ??'s and made this rookie feel welcome here!
> 
> Excited about FLASHLIGHTS?? WHO KNEW?!!!
> jgmoose



 CONGRATULATIONS! And welcome to the ZL Club.


----------



## Connor

@jgmoosehunter
You're in for something special. The quality of the high CRI light and the superfloody beam really set the SC600Fd III+ apart from other lights. Just a wall of _almost_ sunlight. Enjoy and be sure to report back how you like it.


----------



## Mr. Tone

Connor said:


> @jgmoosehunter
> You're in for something special. The quality of the high CRI light and the superfloody beam really set the SC600Fd III+ apart from other lights. Just a wall of _almost_ sunlight. Enjoy and be sure to report back how you like it.



Indeed :thumbsup:


----------



## recDNA

StorminMatt said:


> After WEEKS of waiting, I FINALLY got my SC600Fd from Nkon. And it looks like those rumors of Nkon getting good tints are true. Mine is just about perfect - it easily puts my S41 to shame. It's about as close to pure white as you can get. And compared to the S41, it runs longer and cooler. And it certainly produces a better beam. In any case, it looks like I have a new favorite light. Here are a few pics from hiks I took with it just using my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These pictures are all 'as shot' from my iPhone. They are not edited in any way.


White wall shots show me more about tint is has been the problem. 5000k should be slightly blue rather than yellow or green. I've yet to see a white wall shot that looked like 5000k. I would prefer 5500 to 4500 if we must have room for error.


----------



## jgmoosehunter

When Zebralight.com says the light you just ordered is in stock, any relative time frame as to when to expect delivery to Ohio? I know things vary, but I have never dealt with them before. Does "in stock" mean "in stock from China"? 

BTW, recDNA, those are beautiful night pics, part of the reason I went this direction. Thank you!


----------



## markr6

jgmoosehunter said:


> When Zebralight.com says the light you just ordered is in stock, any relative time frame as to when to expect delivery to Ohio? I know things vary, but I have never dealt with them before. Does "in stock" mean "in stock from China"?



US orders are shipped from TX, so I would say 2-3 days depending on where you are in OH and when they actually ship it.


----------



## tops2

jgmoosehunter said:


> When Zebralight.com says the light you just ordered is in stock, any relative time frame as to when to expect delivery to Ohio? I know things vary, but I have never dealt with them before. Does "in stock" mean "in stock from China"?
> 
> BTW, recDNA, those are beautiful night pics, part of the reason I went this direction. Thank you!



For the few times I've ordered, when its "in stock", it ships from Texas and I seem to get it about 2-3 days later.


----------



## Shoopmonster

I ordered Friday 12/9, it shipped Monday and I received it Friday 12/16. I don't have a high discharge battery on hand so I am waiting for one to come Monday before I let 'er rip.


----------



## StorminMatt

Shoopmonster said:


> I ordered Friday 12/9, it shipped Monday and I received it Friday 12/16. I don't have a high discharge battery on hand so I am waiting for one to come Monday before I let 'er rip.



You can always try the light with lower discharge cells so long as they are unprotected flat tops and you avoid the H1 setting.


----------



## jgmoosehunter

I received both my Zebralight SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50 Floody Neutral AND my Nitecore MH20GT today!! Two fantastic lights. I bought the ZL 3.7V 3500Ah that Zebralight recommends, and the Nitecore NL1834 3400mAh for the Nitecore. My question is, and please, I know I am an absolute ROOKIE here- Would one of the 4 bay Nitecore D4 digi chargers work for both of these cells? They get decent reviews, but i am asking for insight here. Any thoughts, and I appreciate any input. i am here to learn.


----------



## noboneshotdog

jgmoosehunter said:


> I received both my Zebralight SC600Fd Mk III Plus XHP50 Floody Neutral AND my Nitecore MH20GT today!! Two fantastic lights. I bought the ZL 3.7V 3500Ah that Zebralight recommends, and the Nitecore NL1834 3400mAh for the Nitecore. My question is, and please, I know I am an absolute ROOKIE here- Would one of the 4 bay Nitecore D4 digi chargers work for both of these cells? They get decent reviews, but i am asking for insight here. Any thoughts, and I appreciate any input. i am here to learn.



Yes, I have the nitecore D4 and it works perfectly and at a great price. 

You can put a variety of cells in at once and the charger recognizes the chemistry for proper charges. This would be a great charger for these batteries.


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## jgmoosehunter

I'm on it, thanks so very much. BTW, the mh20gt is much smaller than it looks in pics and vids. The throw on this is pretty crazy. Love it so far


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## noboneshotdog

jgmoosehunter said:


> I'm on it, thanks so very much. BTW, the mh20gt is much smaller than it looks in pics and vids. The throw on this is pretty crazy. Love it so far



Congratulations! Both lights have gotten a lot of love around here. I own the ZEBRALIGHT SC600FD PLUS, not the Nitecore. I have another pocket able thrower the EagleTac Tx25c2 modified by a forum member Vinh. You definitely picked a couple of winners to start with!


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## Equitymind

jgmoosehunter said:


> I'm on it, thanks so very much. BTW, the mh20gt is much smaller than it looks in pics and vids. The throw on this is pretty crazy. Love it so far



I have both but I find myself pairing my PLUS with a regular SC600 Mk III or the HI (or both!). Two equal sized lights with different capabilities fill out the lighting spectrum nicely bringing out a wall of light all around with a nice throw in front.


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## Auringonvalo

I contacted ZL customer service about the PID.

_The default target temperature for the PID thermal regulation is 50C. At 55C (with 5C added), it's still well under the 60C max working temperature of a typical li-ion battery.

_I tried to get a developer programming code for the PID to go even further than 55C.

_No, we won't want to have our lights out there working in a temperature that's so close to the 60C limit of li-ion batteries (note that we have no way to limit the batteries that our customers put into the lights).
_
So this means that there are 18650 batteries which work with SC600Fd and can tolerate temperatures above 60C to get even looser PID for longer 1500 Lm runtime? I assume that you would have to send the light to the ZL because of safety issues to get a looser PID. They probably remove warranty too, if they even give this service.

Anyone have ideas how to attach effective cooling mass to this light because I don't want to disassemble the body?


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## Connor

Auringonvalo said:


> Anyone have ideas how to attach effective cooling mass to this light because I don't want to disassemble the body?



Maybe you should look at a different/larger flashlight instead?


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## Screwball69N

Just received the SC600F III Plus and wow talking about harnessing the power of the sun I'm impressed but I think the times on high might be a little off I played with it just a few times on high and my battery was drained to 50% so I'll try a few other battery's and get back to you all


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## Connor

Screwball69N said:


> Just received the SC600F III Plus and wow talking about harnessing the power of the sun I'm impressed but I think the times on high might be a little off I played with it just a few times on high and my battery was drained to 50% so I'll try a few other battery's and get back to you all



I read somewhere that if you turn it on on H1 and switch it off when it starts to dim after about 45 seconds and let it cool to room temperature and then repeat this cycle you'll get about 20 minutes of runtime from a 3500 mAh cell.
The "approx. 2.3 hr" runtime stated by Zebralight is achieved only if you turn it on once and keep it on .. which of course means it will run at about ~500 lumens most of the time.


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## StorminMatt

Ambient conditions also make a difference. If you take your light for a walk on a cold night, the light will stay brighter longer, which will drain the battery down faster.


----------



## Ares

I've had mine for a couple days now. I don't know if it makes any difference but I asked for the warmest (yellowest) tint and a hard clicky, and it may just be luck but that's exactly what I got! The tint falls somewhere between my SC63w and my SC62d - favoring the SC63w. Much warmer than my SC62d but just a shade cooler than my SC63w.

As far as brightness goes, it fills a room much more brightly than my SC600w Mk II or SC63w with better color rendering to boot! It's crazy how compact it is compared to my original SC600w (1st gen). I have to say, ZebraLight has outdone itself on this one. They even moved the keychain mount to the side rather than directly opposing the logo / clicky switch, which was a mild complaint I had on earlier SC600 models (I don't know if this is new or was introduced in the Mk III models - never owned one of those). I like to have my clip directly opposite the switch, and the keychain mount got in the way, with previous similar models.

It's definitely a wall of light! My other SC600 models throw further, but I can get a sense of "depth" outside better with this light. And though it's darker, I can still pretty much see just as far as I can with my SC600w Mk II and SC63w. I really have zero complaints, though I'm still partial to a non-frosted lens. But it's growing on me for sure. This little light is going to serve a lot of uses! 

I would love to see a chart showing what amperage it draws on the various H1 and H2 modes, though. Most of my cells can only handle 0.5-2.5A constant draw, so I've only been using those with H2 at the most. I have one 10A draw cell that I can confidently use on the higher H1 modes. It would be nice to know if some of the other PID modes are also safe! I don't have the equipment to test it myself, unfortunately.

Hope everyone else enjoys this torch as much as I do! Happy holidays, folks!


----------



## samgab

Ares said:


> ...I would love to see a chart showing what amperage it draws on the various H1 and H2 modes, though. Most of my cells can only handle 0.5-2.5A constant draw, so I've only been using those with H2 at the most. I have one 10A draw cell that I can confidently use on the higher H1 modes. It would be nice to know if some of the other PID modes are also safe! I don't have the equipment to test it myself, unfortunately...



Hi. I just tested the current draw at the tailcap using my Fluke 87V. Ballpark measurements were 3.5A on H1, which started to drop quite quickly as the PID kicked in. H2 variants were about 0.5A, 1.0A, and 2.0A, respectively.


----------



## mico

samgab said:


> Hi. I just tested the current draw at the tailcap using my Fluke 87V. Ballpark measurements were 3.5A on H1, which started to drop quite quickly as the PID kicked in. H2 variants were about 0.5A, 1.0A, and 2.0A, respectively.


That's great to know, thanks.

Time to put a Sony VT6 in mine. Looks so good it makes me think the charts are wrong:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php


----------



## CyberTrpr

I agree that this led is a wall of light if that is what your looking for. I played with the SC600Fd III Plus and a SC600w III Hi. The Plus seems to step down very quickly and eats batteries like crazy. I wonder what it would look like if it didn't have the frosted sense filter? I think is is a good show off light but for practically uses the XHP35 lights work best. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## Charlie Hustle

CyberTrpr said:


> I agree that this led is a wall of light if that is what your looking for. I played with the SC600Fd III Plus and a SC600w III Hi. The Plus seems to step down very quickly and eats batteries like crazy. I wonder what it would look like if it didn't have the frosted sense filter? I think is is a good show off light but for practically uses the XHP35 lights work best. Just my opinion of course.



candlepowerforums.com 2017:thumbsup:


----------



## StorminMatt

mico said:


> That's great to know, thanks.
> 
> Time to put a Sony VT6 in mine. Looks so good it makes me think the charts are wrong:
> 
> http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php



The VTC6 is probably one of the best batteries for this light. It holds its voltage better than pretty much ANYTHING else out there (Samsung 30Q included). And its REAL capacity is actually not much lower than the NCR18650GA.


----------



## CallMeDave

CyberTrpr said:


> The Plus seems to step down very quickly and eats batteries like crazy.



That's not my experience at all. I've never seen it step down from H1 in normal operation, but then again it's so insanely bright I don't usually need its highest setting for extended periods of time. 
It gets toasty hot, but I get perfectly acceptable runtimes with the NCR18650GA I bought from Zebralight. It's not magic; super bright and hot is going to take a lot of juice. When I use this on low and medium levels it just sips energy.

I do wish I could reverse the interface so single-click turned it on Low, and press-and-hold cycled up to brighter, but ZL interface discussions happen in other threads...


----------



## Connor

CallMeDave said:


> That's not my experience at all. I've never seen it step down from H1 in normal operation [...]



It really does. I can notice mine starting to step down after about 45 seconds (in _white wall conditions_  ).


----------



## noboneshotdog

Connor said:


> It really does. I can notice mine starting to step down after about 45 seconds (in _white wall conditions_  ).



Mine steps down big time at 1500lm. Within just a few minutes it is usually at a lower output than H2. And this is with the pid set for the highest temp. I am using the 18650ga's from ZL.


----------



## recDNA

noboneshotdog said:


> Mine steps down big time at 1500lm. Within just a few minutes it is usually at a lower output than H2. And this is with the pid set for the highest temp. I am using the 18650ga's from ZL.


XHP needs too much power to run in a small flashlight on one 4.2 volt battery. Bad choice by ZL. XP-L2 would have been better.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> XHP needs too much power to run in a small flashlight on one 4.2 volt battery. Bad choice by ZL. XP-L2 would have been better.



No it doesn't. It steps down because of the heat(thermal regulation)not the voltage or voltage sag. The XHP50 and 30 are fine choices with the right driver. With the right driver they can still hold turbo(1300-1500 lumens) down to almost 3.0 volts. The XP-L2 has less then half of the maximum light output of the XHP50 and would have never achieved the same performance/output. I am pretty sure ZL knows what they are doing.


----------



## samgab

Horses for courses. It's not for everyone, but there are lots of people, myself included, who really like this little light. Especially the great CRI. It does what it's designed to do really well.


----------



## staticx57

Tachead said:


> No it doesn't. It steps down because of the heat(thermal regulation)not the voltage or voltage sag. The XHP50 and 30 are fine choices with the right driver. With the right driver they can still hold turbo(1300-1500 lumens) down to almost 3.0 volts. The XP-L2 has less then half of the maximum light output of the XHP50 and would have never achieved the same performance/output. I am pretty sure ZL knows what they are doing.



There is ever so slight truth in at the boost converter to run an XHP50 is slightly more inefficient than the driver to run a 3ish forward voltage emitter. But in truth, the XHP50 will just be outputting more lumens anyways so it will need more power and run hotter. the XHP50 and XP-L2 are very close in generation so very close in efficiency.


----------



## Mr. Tone

I really love this light. Mine is obviously stepping down on high in small increments when it gets warm. I can see it throttle down in action. I am glad that the PID works, as I know it is helping this little light keep from overheating. After all, there is very little mass here. The heatsinking is very good, as I can feel it get warm almost right away on max.


----------



## StorminMatt

staticx57 said:


> There is ever so slight truth in at the boost converter to run an XHP50 is slightly more inefficient than the driver to run a 3ish forward voltage emitter. But in truth, the XHP50 will just be outputting more lumens anyways so it will need more power and run hotter. the XHP50 and XP-L2 are very close in generation so very close in efficiency.



Since the input voltage of 1x18650 is considerably higher than 1xAA, the efficiency of the boost converter in the SC600Fd is considerably higher than that in your typical 1xAA light (like the SC5).


----------



## samgab

Ares said:


> ...
> I would love to see a chart showing what amperage it draws on the various H1 and H2 modes, though. Most of my cells can only handle 0.5-2.5A constant draw, so I've only been using those with H2 at the most. I have one 10A draw cell that I can confidently use on the higher H1 modes. It would be nice to know if some of the other PID modes are also safe! I don't have the equipment to test it myself, unfortunately.
> 
> Hope everyone else enjoys this torch as much as I do! Happy holidays, folks!



_


samgab said:



Hi. I just tested the current draw at the tailcap using my Fluke 87V. Ballpark measurements were 3.5A on H1, which started to drop quite quickly as the PID kicked in. H2 variants were about 0.5A, 1.0A, and 2.0A, respectively.

Click to expand...

_
Just a correction to my earlier figures. The method I was using, whilst accurate for lower current draw measurements becomes inaccurate when the current gets high, eg over 1A. This was mentioned in another thread so I retested using a very short thick piece of wire and a DC clamp meter. This way there is less voltage drop to affect the flashlight's regulation circuit. (http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/Measurement UK.html) Anyway, using this method, I measured over 5A on H1 mode on initial startup with a fully charged cell, and over 7A on cold startup from a quite discharged cell. It's a bit fiddly doing it this way to get into the various H2 modes, but the H2 I had it set on (the lowest H2 IIRC) measured under 1A. So I find it quite believable that this torch could draw as much as 8A when first starting it cold with a fairly low charged cell. When the PID system takes effect, a few seconds after startup, the current draw drops quite a lot. Anyway, I thought I'd better mention this correction to my original post above. Also, I have no way of logging and charting/graphing this current draw data, as I don't have a DC Clamp meter with a logging function, unfortunately. Maybe HKJ, who has the equipment, might do this one day...

Edit, after a bit more testing with the clamp meter, with a fully charged cell, I'm getting 5.6-5.7A on H1, and 0.6-0.7A, 1.0A, and 1.9-2.0A respectively on the H2 modes. So the lower current test results were fairly consistent with both methods, but the H1 testing was a bit off initially. It's worth noting that DC clamp meters aren't very precise, with mine only having about 2% basic DC current accuracy.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Anyone receive one of these lately? How's the tint? Thinking about one...


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## Ozythemandias

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Anyone receive one of these lately? How's the tint? Thinking about one...



One of my favorite 18650 lights. Made my mkIII obsolete for me


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## PoliceScannerMan

Ozythemandias said:


> One of my favorite 18650 lights. Made my mkIII obsolete for me



Good to hear, 95 CRI sounds real nice @ 5000K


----------



## Fireclaw18

Anyone tried taking the frosted lens off? What's the beam pattern look like with no lens or a clear lens? how much does the throw increase?


----------



## snowlover91

Fireclaw18 said:


> Anyone tried taking the frosted lens off? What's the beam pattern look like with no lens or a clear lens? how much does the throw increase?



It would be pretty difficult to remove the lens with the way they are constructed. Even then the increase in throw wouldn't be all that significant as this is a floody LED especially when used in small reflectors. 

Regarding tint, mine from day 1 was excellent. Maybe I got lucky but it's a nice warm, white beam. Think of a Nichia 219 but with slightly less tan/rose tint to it and more white. That's how mine is.


----------



## tonkem

Anyone have beamshots that compare to the SC600 MKIII CW? Wondering what the difference in flood is to the MKIII. I have the MKIII and it throws better than my SC63 and appears brighter because of that. I am considering picking up the FD III Plus for the flood, but if the difference is not noticeable, it may not be worth getting in place of the MKIII CW I already have. Any comments comparing the 2 would be welcome, but beamshots are king  

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Connor

@tonkem
The difference is quite extreme. The SC600Fd III Plus is *much *more floody (~170°), almost your entire field of view is lit.


----------



## tonkem

Sounds good. How does the throw compare to the SC600 MKIII CW or SC63 CW?



Connor said:


> @tonkem
> The difference is quite extreme. The SC600Fd III Plus is *much *more floody (~170°), almost your entire field of view is lit.


----------



## Connor

There is no throw ;-) just a slightly accentuated area in the middle where the beam is brighter. 
The beam reaches less far but lights a bigger area in front of you.


----------



## tonkem

I guess what I meant to ask, is how is the reach compared to the SC600 MKIII and/or SC63? 



Connor said:


> There is no throw ;-) just a slightly accentuated area in the middle where the beam is brighter.
> The beam reaches less far but lights a bigger area in front of you.


----------



## Connor

I'd say less than half the throw of the SC63.


----------



## JStraus

Connor said:


> I'd say less than half the throw of the SC63.



I think this light will go down as one of their best lights in this era along with the already loved SC600 MKIII HI.

I love mine because you don't really have to worry about where you are pointing it. It just provides light.

And by brute force has surprising reach.

The SC63 and 600 HI are both perfectly complementary "spare battery holders" that provide more reach for unfamiliar outdoors, camping, etc.


----------



## samgab

Yeah, it lights up a large room entirely, as if you'd turned on the rooms lights, without any blown out bright spots. Very impressive, but you have to know that it doesn't throw with a little hotspot like a traditional flashlight. Truly flood only.


----------



## tonkem

Does anyone have any beamshots to compare the Sc63 to the Sc600FD III plus?


----------



## noboneshotdog

Ok I have had the PLUS for a few months now and there is lots to love but I have 3 gripes compared to the MKII.1. I wish there were still some sort of flat spots machined into it for anti-roll of unit. 2. I wish they could have come up with a better solution than pogo pins, as they keep denting my batteries. 3. I wish the new PID was not so obvious as it almost seems like the light is flickering as it ramps up and down. So, I guess I pretty much wish the PLUS had the body of the MKII with the lens and the emitter of the FD. Oh well, I guess you can't have everything. :sigh:


----------



## Lumencrazy

noboneshotdog said:


> Ok I have had the PLUS for a few months now and there is lots to love but I have 3 gripes compared to the MKII.1. I wish there were still some sort of flat spots machined into it for anti-roll of unit. 2. I wish they could have come up with a better solution than pogo pins, as they keep denting my batteries. 3. I wish the new PID was not so obvious as it almost seems like the light is flickering as it ramps up and down. So, I guess I pretty much wish the PLUS had the body of the MKII with the lens and the emitter of the FD. Oh well, I guess you can't have everything. :sigh:



The terminals on non-protected batteries are made from very thin metal. Not really designed to take any load. Any arrangement will eventually flatten them


----------



## Tachead

Lumencrazy said:


> The terminals on non-protected batteries are made from very thin metal. Not really designed to take any load. Any arrangement will eventually flatten them




Let's not try and make excuses. The terminals are fairly thin but, these pogo pins are far more likely to damage batteries then other designs. They often damage cells without even being dropped and damage them just from screwing the end cap on because their tolerance is so tight. None of my duel spring flashlights, including ZL's do any damage to my unprotected cells.


----------



## Auringonvalo

I'm using Sanyo NCR18650GA and Turbo (H1) mode steps down to less than 100 lumens in a sec or two when the battery voltage goes below 3.5v. I checked the voltage with Opus BT-CT3100 v2.2 when started to recharge that battery. VTC6 probably would be better for high turbo usage, but it also costs more.

For me, the only curse is the turbo mode runtime because even with 55C (highest temp) setting, it will step down in about 1 min 15s at room temperature (~20C). I was thinking some kind of ghetto solution like thermal paste on the surface and wrap the light tightly with copper wire. I asked Zebralight to make passive cooling accessory for this light, but they just answered like "thanks for the idea."


----------



## snowlover91

The turbo mode isn't really designed for sustained runtimes at the full output but more for short bursts of light. The great part about it is the PID allows the longest possible runtime before stepping down based on ambient conditions instead of the timed step down in other lights. You would need a much bigger light with a larger heat sink to get the sustained high output for a long duration.


----------



## scs

snowlover91 said:


> The turbo mode isn't really designed for sustained runtimes at the full output but more for short bursts of light. The great part about it is the PID allows the longest possible runtime before stepping down based on ambient conditions instead of the timed step down in other lights. You would need a much bigger light with a larger heat sink to get the sustained high output for a long duration.



Very true. Also true: many other lights don't have the driver circuitry needed to maintain constant max output in the first place, even if they had sufficient heat sinking. But the manufacturers of course don't mention that. Instead, they use heat, a valid but also convenient reason/excuse, to imply that max output is not constant for the duration of advertised runtime.


----------



## recDNA

XP-L would be more practical. vF is too high in current model. Waste of power. and heat to drive it.


----------



## samgab

recDNA said:


> XP-L would be more practical. vF is too high in current model. Waste of power. and heat to drive it.



Trouble is, if you're after high CRI, the only XP-L emitters with >90 CRI are in the 3000K or warmer temp. (Aside: It would be good if Cree would get more into not just high CRI (R1-R8), but also high throughout the rest of the colour test spectrum too, like R9 and R13, and a high CQS score at each test point also, like Yuji LED's seem to be doing).


----------



## Connor

samgab said:


> Trouble is, if you're after high CRI, the only XP-L emitters with >90 CRI are in the 3000K or warmer temp. (Aside: It would be good if Cree would get more into not just high CRI (R1-R8), but also high throughout the rest of the colour test spectrum too, like R9 and R13, and a high CQS score at each test point also, like Yuji LED's seem to be doing).



According to maukka the XHP50 in the Fd III Plus reaches a very nice CQS Qa: 91


----------



## samgab

Connor said:


> According to maukka the XHP50 in the Fd III Plus reaches a very nice CQS Qa: 91



Yup, that was kind of my point  It was suggested that the XP-L would be a better, more efficient emitter for this flashlight, which is true on the efficiency score, but sadly - at the moment at least - you can't get an XP-L which has a colour temp in the neutral white ~5000K range, AND a good CRI (current gen XP-L's are about 70-75 CRI in that temp range), AND also good across the rest of the test spectrum, like R9 (red), R12 (blue), and R13 (human skin tone).
I'm pretty happy with the colour rendering of my Fd III+, but I don't have all the awesome fancy gear that Maukka has to test it.

Check out R9 and R12 on the SC600 Fd III+ (Not awful, but not great either.):




-source: Maukka


----------



## recDNA

How about HI CRI XM-L2? I hate the xhp-50. Between the green tint, low efficiency, and need for a filtered lens it just isn't meant for a small flashlight.


----------



## roadkill1109

For current owners of this light, any issues encountered?


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> XP-L would be more practical. vF is too high in current model. Waste of power. and heat to drive it.



You always bash the XHP's but, you don't seem to understand the benefits of them. 

The XP-L is a much older generation emitter and although it has a slightly lower efficiency(in lumens per watt), it has less then half the maximum output of the XHP50. The 6V XHP50 produces more then double the lumens of the XP-L at the same drive current and the 12V version produces more then double the output of the XP-L at half the drive current. So, even though the XHP50 has a slightly lower efficiency and uses a boost driver(which also causes an efficiency loss) it still seams to get higher runtimes at the same output compared to the older generation emitters like the XM-L2, XP-L, etc.

If ZL would have used an XP-L in the Plus they never would have achieved anywhere near the output they did with the XHP50, it would have likely gotten shorter runtimes on all all modes, and it would have only had 75 CRI nominal instead of 93-95 because that is the highest CRI 5000K XP-L available. I don't see how that would be more practical? 

Now, there is a newer version of the XP-L available(the XP-L2) and there is a 3-step 5000K 90+ CRI variant but, it still gets nowhere near the maximum output of the XHP50 and if they used it the Plus it would likely have been 300-500 lumens lower in output and still got shorter runtimes on all modes. 

I am pretty sure ZL knows what they are doing and I suggest you trust them to know what is more practical for their lights as they have a lot more knowledge and experience in designing flashlights then you do.


----------



## recDNA

I'm not going to trust the judgement of companies that put out green tinted flashlights. I don't like Surefire for the same reason. I prefer a clear lens and a little throw and a flashlight that doesn't have to step down so fast even if it means less output. I'm not crazy about pogo pin dents either. 

That said I should tell you I love my sc62w and my sc32w. I just don't think XHP is a good choice for a small flashlight.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> How about HI CRI XM-L2? I hate the xhp-50. Between the green tint, low efficiency, and need for a filtered lens it just isn't meant for a small flashlight.



The only XM-L2 available with a reasonably tight tint tolerance is the XM-L2 Easywhite and it only comes in a 80+ CRI version in the 5000K flavour. And, it too would not produce anywhere near the output of the XHP50, nor would it get as good of runtimes, and it would still need a frosted lens to smooth out beam artifacts. 

Not all XHP50's are green, it is the standard tint lottery as usual. The problem is, ZL greatly greatly increased our chances of getting a green tinted sample because the 5000K version of the XHP50 they chose has about a 90% rate of green tinted(above the black body radiation line) emitters. If they would have went with the 4500K version it would have decreased the chance of getting a green one a lot.

The XHP50 was meant for many applications and works fine for small flashlights. It just doesn't offer the traits you want. I suggest you look for models using the XHP35 if you want a clear lens high output flashlight as its 4 dies are so close together they don't produce any beam artifacts with a clear lens.

The fact of the matter is that the XHP35, 50, and 70 are the only emitters currently available that offer this kind of output with a reasonable CRI and descent tint tolerances. Until some new emitters hit the market and we convince a company to spend the extra money and time to acquire high CRI variations with a tight tint tolerance(or to start cherry picking them for tint) this is all we are going to get. The only other option is to go the custom route and try to acquire your own emitters of choice but, you just won't find drivers with the efficiency, size, and sophistication that ZL offers anywhere else.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> I'm not going to trust the judgement of companies that put out green tinted flashlights. I don't like Surefire for the same reason. I prefer a clear lens and a little throw and a flashlight that doesn't have to step down so fast even if it means less output. I'm not crazy about pogo pin dents either.
> 
> That said I should tell you I love my sc62w and my sc32w. I just don't think XHP is a good choice for a small flashlight.



Many flashlight companies put out lights with green tinted emitters. Most of the time it is a lottery and you may get one or not depending on your luck. At least ZL tries to get us the best emitters they can find. Not many other companies, if any, actively try and release lights that come with high CRI and low MacAdam Ellipse emitters in them. 

ZL offers what you describe, its called the SC600w MKIII HI. As for step downs or thermal regulation just dont use H1 and H2 if you want constant flat regulated output. It is still nice to have the higher outputs available if you need them though. 

I am with you on the pogo pins. I don't like them either and think they were a poor design decision on ZL's part. I have been against them since they were announced and still haven't bought any of ZL's lights with them. But, I have been tempted because I like a lot of the other features of the lights and know you can't have everything you want without going custom and even then you are limited. 

The problem is, the XHP series of emitters are really the only choice when you want this kind of output and runtimes. without them we would just have a MKII in a MKIII body without all the improvements in runtime and output.


----------



## CallMeDave

The pogo pins haven't left any discernible marks on my Sony or Panasonic batteries. No scratching, no denting. The tiny pin springs do their job just fine.

This light is very bright.
This light is very floody.
This light has very nice tint.


----------



## snowlover91

roadkill1109 said:


> For current owners of this light, any issues encountered?



Mine has been great, use it every night just about. Great tint, plenty of power and I love the floody beam and I've had mine for over a year. 

It's interesting how ZL changed the pogo design on the SC63w. The pogo pins are on the circuit board and then the spring is in the tail cap. Not sure why they did this though, interesting to see what they do in the near future.


----------



## recDNA

It is nonsense to say XM-L2 would require a frosted lens. Many small flashlights use it. Even with op reflector it would be nicer. I've already said I don't need as much output however without the frosted lens an XM-L2 Easy White may look brighter. The XP-L HI look yellow to me. You guys love your XHP. That's fine. I hope the next version is one I can love.


----------



## Tachead

recDNA said:


> It is nonsense to say XM-L2 would require a frosted lens. Many small flashlights use it. Even with op reflector it would be nicer. I've already said I don't need as much output however without the frosted lens an XM-L2 Easy White may look brighter. The XP-L HI look yellow to me. You guys love your XHP. That's fine. I hope the next version is one I can love.



The XM-L2 EasyWhite is a quad die emitter and the dies are spaced even further apart then the XHP50. Just like the XHP50, without a frosted lens, you will get beam artifacts of the four dies that most users will not like. 

The XP-L HI can look yellow, it can also look pink, green, blue, purple, orange, etc. It depends on many factors including the particular samples tint, CCT, the reflector design and geometry, the type of anti-reflective coatings used on the lens, etc. You seem to think that a particular kind of emitter will always looks a certain way but, that is not the case. I strongly suggest you dont right off one kind of emitter just because the sample or samples you have seen arent to your liking. Most emitters are available in thousands of different variations and there is often large differences in tint and CCT even between samples from the exact same bin.


----------



## geokite

Got mine a couple days ago, mainly to replace a SC600 III L2 that I use on my commuter bike. In 4Hz mode, it dropped from 4.2V to 3.89V after about 30 min of riding (morning air temp of about 50, ride home air temp of 70). That is a larger drop than the SC600 used previously. 

Someone here may already know, but I asked ZL if the pid works for the strobe also. I tried the 4Hz just at room temp, no wind, for 30 min. Battery voltage drop was more (don't remember how much more), and I could not hold the light it was so hot.

Love the tint, no green. Knurling is more aggressive than all other ZLs I have (19, but only a couple have knurling).

Gone is the sub lumen mode(s) that was only useful for finding the light in the dark. The lowest level now is my go to level to not wake the wife. I never used those O.OX lumen levels, but I could see how some might find then useful.

Steve


----------



## swan

Any one measured lumens or candela?


----------



## geokite

Just happened to look at the light at the lowest L2 setting. I have never noticed it before in any of my lights, but the pwm is very noticeable. No offense, but someone on this forum is going to crap a brick when they see this. It's like there is a butterfly caught inside!

Steve


----------



## TCY

geokite said:


> Just happened to look at the light at the lowest L2 setting. I have never noticed it before in any of my lights, but the pwm is very noticeable. No offense, but someone on this forum is going to crap a brick when they see this. It's like there is a butterfly caught inside!
> 
> Steve



Are you talking about the 0.18 one? I just checked myself, but can't see any signs of pwm, seeing through a phone camera (HTC 10) and I don't detect any flickering.


----------



## eraursls1984

geokite said:


> Just happened to look at the light at the lowest L2 setting. I have never noticed it before in any of my lights, but the pwm is very noticeable. No offense, but someone on this forum is going to crap a brick when they see this. It's like there is a butterfly caught inside!
> 
> Steve


You may have a defective one.


----------



## Connor

geokite said:


> Got mine a couple days ago, mainly to replace a SC600 III L2 that I use on my commuter bike. In 4Hz mode, it dropped from 4.2V to 3.89V after about 30 min of riding (morning air temp of about 50, ride home air temp of 70).



The power draw at 1500 lumens/H1 is insane, you would empty a 3500mAh 18650 in about 20 minutes if you could keep the light cold enough, so I guess what you describe is normal. The flickering on L2 however is not, I can't see any pulsing on my SC600Fd III plus and I consider myself to be quite sensitive to this.


----------



## snowlover91

geokite said:


> Just happened to look at the light at the lowest L2 setting. I have never noticed it before in any of my lights, but the pwm is very noticeable. No offense, but someone on this forum is going to crap a brick when they see this. It's like there is a butterfly caught inside!
> 
> Steve



Mine doesn't exhibit this behavior either, you may want to contact ZL for an exchange/refund because it shouldn't be doing that.


----------



## Offgridled

snowlover91 said:


> Mine doesn't exhibit this behavior either, you may want to contact ZL for an exchange/refund because it shouldn't be doing that.


+1 definetly send it back for another.


----------



## samgab

Definitely no visible or audible PWM on any mode with my one, and I'm pretty sensitive to PWM too. It may possibly use PWM, but if so, there is enough capacitance to smooth it out nicely.


----------



## geokite

Thanks for the replies everyone, tonight I'll check the other low light levels and also see if another battery changes that noticeable flicker. It isn't an even flicker; the frequency changes. I tried the existing battery in another light (SC62w) and it did not replicate.

Got a reply back from ZL if the PID functions during the strobe; answer is no. This concerns me, as I let the light run at 4Hz for 30 minutes and it was too hot to handle. Sometimes when it is hotter around here (on my bike ride home) my previous SC600 III L2 would get quite hot during 4Hz mode; I can imagine this getting even hotter in the same conditions

Would I know if the light was damaged from heat? I don't have a tool to measure the temperature of it when it is too hot to handle.

Steve


----------



## Derek Dean

geokite, this is probably a silly question, but did you do a thorough cleaning of all the electrical contact points, including the end of the battery tube and where it makes contact in the tailcap? It's probably a bad driver causing that flickering, but it never hurts to check the simple stuff : )


----------



## jon_slider

geokite said:


> Would I know if the light was damaged from heat?


 _noticeable flicker _:mecry:sounds like damage, yes



geokite said:


> Got a reply back from ZL if the PID functions during the strobe; answer is no. This concerns me



sounds like youre going to have to stop using Zebras as bike strobe lights, now that you know there is no PID on Zebra strobes

sorry for your pain, I hope you negotiate an acceptable resolution w Zebralight, and that you find a suitable replacement bike light.


----------



## Tachead

geokite said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone, tonight I'll check the other low light levels and also see if another battery changes that noticeable flicker. It isn't an even flicker; the frequency changes. I tried the existing battery in another light (SC62w) and it did not replicate.
> 
> Got a reply back from ZL if the PID functions during the strobe; answer is no. This concerns me, as I let the light run at 4Hz for 30 minutes and it was too hot to handle. Sometimes when it is hotter around here (on my bike ride home) my previous SC600 III L2 would get quite hot during 4Hz mode; I can imagine this getting even hotter in the same conditions
> 
> *Would I know if the light was damaged from heat? I don't have a tool to measure the temperature of it when it is too hot to handle.*
> 
> Steve



I doubt it was damaged by heat. All ZL components are rated to a minimum of 85C so, it would have to get extremely hot. I would be more concerned about your batteries. Lithium ions don't like heat at all and exposing them to excessive heat can greatly degrade their performance and service life. Also, most lithium ions have a maximum safe operating limit of 60C so, going above that can be very dangerous and can even cause a catastrophic failure(fire/explosion).

You probably just got a defective driver. Put in a warranty claim with ZL and have it replaced:thumbsup:.


----------



## lightwriteslice411

I may have missed this in the thread somewhere....

Has anyone done a comparison between the SC63w and the SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50? 

I am trying to decide between these two, now that I have already pulled the trigger on the SC600w-III HI. I've currently got an SC5w-op I have been EDC'ing, so it would those two would just be to swap out with this one once in a while, more than likely on my work days.

Thanks!

-Ben


----------



## DMS1970

lightwriteslice411 said:


> I may have missed this in the thread somewhere....
> 
> Has anyone done a comparison between the SC63w and the SC600Fd III Plus - XHP50?
> 
> I am trying to decide between these two, now that I have already pulled the trigger on the SC600w-III HI. I've currently got an SC5w-op I have been EDC'ing, so it would those two would just be to swap out with this one once in a while, more than likely on my work days.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Ben



i have the mkiii floody (warm) and the mkiii hi and sc63, both in cool. They are all unique animals for sure. The fd is phenomenal for a wall of light, but I still haven't ever been a warm tint guy. In a pinch the 63 is the easiest to tote. I cycle through them, but try and take the 63 and one of the mkiii with me every time I go hunting.


----------



## jgmoosehunter

Hey, DMS1970:
Where can I buy the SC600 III HI in cool white? I don't see it as an option on the ZL website, didn't know it was offered. I am refering to the non-floody thrower. I apologize as I know this thread is about the floody version, but it was referred to in the previous reply.


----------



## snowlover91

jgmoosehunter said:


> Hey, DMS1970:
> Where can I buy the SC600 III HI in cool white? I don't see it as an option on the ZL website, didn't know it was offered. I am refering to the non-floody thrower. I apologize as I know this thread is about the floody version, but it was referred to in the previous reply.



The MK3 HI is not offered in cool white. The SC600 III is and may be what the previous poster meant.


----------



## Screwball69N

Well my glass is cracked and not from being droped or anything was using it put it in my pocket got it back out not ten minutes later and it's cracked I have 5 other ZebraLight and never seen it happen I'm thinking that the frosted glass is weeker then the normal but I'm talking with the Warranty department I hope this doesn't take two months till I see a flashlight from them again


----------



## markr6

Screwball69N said:


> Well my glass is cracked and not from being droped or anything was using it put it in my pocket got it back out not ten minutes later and it's cracked I have 5 other ZebraLight and never seen it happen I'm thinking that the frosted glass is weeker then the normal but I'm talking with the Warranty department I hope this doesn't take two months till I see a flashlight from them again



Sorry to hear that. There is a thread somewhere where the frosted lens cracking is discussed. I think some unfortunate member here had 3 or more lenses crack for no reason! I would get it replaced, but that wouldn't give me much hope on the next one.


----------



## Tachead

markr6 said:


> Sorry to hear that. There is a thread somewhere where the frosted lens cracking is discussed. I think some unfortunate member here had 3 or more lenses crack for no reason! I would get it replaced, but that wouldn't give me much hope on the next one.


Since that thread you referenced was started Zebralight has changed their glass, including the frosted lenses, to Gorilla Glass 3. So, it is much stronger now. Frosted glass will always be slightly weaker however because it is often slightly thinner and the frosting process slightly weakens it. It is only slightly weaker though and not a problem for most users. That's why you barely ever hear reports of broken lenses even with the thousands of frosted ZL's sold. 

I would just get it replaced and go on using it. Of course, carrying a large glass lens flashlight in your pocket with any other items is not advised. Anything in your pocket with the light could put stress on the lens as you move and increase the chance of a broken lens. So, don't put anything else in your pocket if you are going to pocket carry your Plus(not saying you did Screwball).


----------



## scs

Tachead said:


> Since that thread you referenced was started Zebralight has changed their glass, including the frosted lenses, to Gorilla Glass 3. So, it is much stronger now. Frosted glass will always be slightly weaker however because it is often slightly thinner and the frosting process slightly weakens it. It is only slightly weaker though and not a problem for most users. That's why you barely ever hear reports of broken lenses even with the thousands of frosted ZL's sold.
> 
> I would just get it replaced and go on using it. Of course, carrying a large glass lens flashlight in your pocket with any other items is not advised. Anything in your pocket with the light could put stress on the lens as you move and increase the chance of a broken lens. So, don't put anything else in your pocket if you are going to pocket carry your Plus(not saying you did Screwball).



Was it a switch to an even higher strength Gorilla Glass, or switching to Gorilla Glass for the first time? Member Stefano noticed his new h600f had less spread and more reach than his older model. He asked and ZL informed him that all new frosted models had Gorilla glass lenses. This was long before the Plus came out. Meaning the Plus's lens should be Gorilla glass already.


----------



## Tachead

scs said:


> Was it a switch to an even higher strength Gorilla Glass, or switching to Gorilla Glass for the first time? Member Stefano noticed his new h600f had less spread and more reach than his older model. He asked and ZL informed him that all new frosted models had Gorilla glass lenses. This was long before the Plus came out. Meaning the Plus's lens should be Gorilla glass already.



I believe the original glass used was just normal glass. Then, they switched to Gorilla Glass 3. Yes, the switch was a long time ago so all Plus's should use Gorilla glass 3. The thread Mark was referencing was from way back though so I was simply pointing out that new ZL's use stronger glass unlike the ones from that thread. It now seams to be a rare occurance to crack a ZL frosted lens. But, if you are going to break one I would guess the Plus's would break the easiest because it is so large.


----------



## scs

I think he might be referring to this one http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?426802-ZL-SC600-Fd-III-Plus-issues
which is quite recent.


----------



## Tachead

scs said:


> I think he might be referring to this one http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?426802-ZL-SC600-Fd-III-Plus-issues
> which is quite recent.



Oh, I thought he was referring to the original, this one...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?407314-ZL-Inexplicable-breakage-of-frosted-lens

Either way, these are isolated issues and not a problem for most people. Especially since ZL started using the stronger glass.


----------



## Connor

Someone[1] over at the German TLF posted a thermal imaging animated gif that shows both the SC600Fd III+ and the SC600w MkIII Hi heating up and reaching thermal equilibrium: 
http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/t...k-iii-xhp35-hi-vs-sc600f-d-mk-iii-plus.55201/

The gif can only be viewed if you have/make an account there but a few posts later he also publicly linked the full video as download: http://www.fastshare.org/download/heatup.mkv
Very nicely done and very interesting to watch. The SC600Fd III+ - surprise - heats up a lot faster. 



1. h/t to "0-8-15 User"@TLF


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## Mr. Tone

^
Thanks for sharing the info.


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## Screwball69N

My ZebraLights never share a pocket with anything there paint chips off easy enough by themselves it doesn't need any help and I was talking about the newest light I just got this one for Xmas so it's only going on the third mounth here's some pics 
https://imgur.com/gallery/3lyGI


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## Screwball69N




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## psychbeat

Thanks for the link Connor. 

---

I think the ano on zebralights is pretty good but mine are all a few years old or more. 

I do kinda wish they still had the greenish tint - to the ano not the beam  

I'm curious if the newer models chip easier than the old?


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## Screwball69N

I really wish they would use a replaceable stainless strike bezel because I have all there newest flashlights and it seems the bulk of there chips is the up around the bezel everytime I see a ZebraLight fall it seems to fall head first


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## Tachead

Screwball69N said:


> My ZebraLights never share a pocket with anything there paint chips off easy enough by themselves it doesn't need any help and I was talking about the newest light I just got this one for Xmas so it's only going on the third mounth here's some pics
> https://imgur.com/gallery/3lyGI



That's funny, I find their anodizing(Type III Class I hard anodizing, not paint) to be some of the best of any brand. It's far more durable then most of the Chinese brands (Nitecore, Fenix, Thrunite, Eagletac, etc.) in my experience. Keep in mind even the best anodizing can't stand up to hard drops or abrasion from harder materials like hardened steel, concrete, ceramic, etc. Remember also that although anodizing can be very tough and hard(often harder then the highest grades of aluminum) it still has soft aluminum underneath it which can only stand up to some much abuse.

As for the lens, I have been using my frosted lens ZL's for over a year now backcountry camping, rock climbing, hunting, fishing, and for various trades and my lenses are holding up just fine. I do take good care of my stuff though(not saying you don't). So, I suspect you either got one with a defect or an unfortunate accident happened while it was in your pocket. The frosted lenses are slightly less tough due to the frosting process but, glass lenses are only so tough anyway. You have to go with optical acrylic or Lexan if you want the best shatter resistance. Just send it back to ZL and they will replace it for you or, ask them nicely if they will sell you a few replacement lenses so you can do it yourself and have a couple of spares in case the unfortunate happens again. 

ZL's are not the toughest lights and they are not designed to be. They are high performance lights with state of the art electronics built into some of the smallest and lightest bodies on the market. If you want tough I suggest you try a Malkoff or Elzetta. They are purpose built for durability and reliability foremost.


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## Tachead

Screwball69N said:


> I really wish they would use a replaceable stainless strike bezel because I have all there newest flashlights and it seems the bulk of there chips is the up around the bezel everytime I see a ZebraLight fall it seems to fall head first



Maybe you should quit seeing them fall there butterfingers.

I doubt we will ever see a strike bezel on a ZL. ZL's game is making the smallest and lightest high performance lights they can. They don't do tactical and they don't do user replaceable. Plenty of other light manufacturers offer those features if that is what you desire though.


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## Tachead

Thanks for the link Connor:thumbsup:.


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## geokite

The flicker behavior on the lowest level can't be observed anymore. I think it was the brand new cell that was in the light, but that is just a hunch. All the levels work just fine (and I love the tint). My one experience running it on strobe for 30 minutes doesn't appear to have done anything to the light. I will probably still use it for biking (and just check it by feel on warm days), but at normal temps it goes through about 0.3V per 15 min of strobe usage. 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. 

Steve


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## Screwball69N

Another thing that they could do is LineX in or Grilla play them that would make them take the falls with no damage


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## geokite

I was wrong, the flicker was still there. So it did go back, got the replacement today. No flicker. After paying attention to the daily voltage drop of my sc600w II when used for biking to work, the voltage drop of the plus is not much more, and does not get that much hotter. 

Steve


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## scs

geokite said:


> I was wrong, the flicker was still there. So it did go back, got the replacement today. No flicker. After paying attention to the daily voltage drop of my sc600w II when used for biking to work, the voltage drop of the plus is not much more, and does not get that much hotter.
> 
> Steve



Did you have to pay the return shipping for the defective light and if so, did Zebralight reimburse you?


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## geokite

I did pay to ship it back to them, and no they did not reimburse me. It took awhile, and after telling me that it would ship back in 5-10 business days, they said it would ship when they got the light from me. I sent them the tracking number showing that the light was delivered almost a month ago. After that message, the replacement light was put in the mail to me. 

I'm not impressed with the customer service. 

Steve


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## scs

geokite said:


> I did pay to ship it back to them, and no they did not reimburse me. It took awhile, and after telling me that it would ship back in 5-10 business days, they said it would ship when they got the light from me. I sent them the tracking number showing that the light was delivered almost a month ago. After that message, the replacement light was put in the mail to me.
> 
> I'm not impressed with the customer service.
> 
> Steve



Disappointing indeed on both counts. Glad you now have a working light.


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## 18650

geokite said:


> Just happened to look at the light at the lowest L2 setting. I have never noticed it before in any of my lights, but the pwm is very noticeable. No offense, but someone on this forum is going to crap a brick when they see this. It's like there is a butterfly caught inside! Steve


 This was reported on earlier models and when I checked my SC62d I noticed the same thing on the lowest 2 levels. I'm thinking the circuit just doesn't cope well with single digit mA current draw.


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## Connor

My personal Zebralight sample group size is "10". None of them is showing *any *visible flickering on the lowest level. :shrug:
I have some flashlights that show subtle pulsing on low levels (e.g. the Manker MK34) - I know how it looks and I don't like it very much either (because it can be distracting). 
If your Zebralight is showing flickering it's defective IMHO.


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## Dssanii19

So many models of Zebralights! What's a good model to go with? I work Maintenace in a casino and am in very dark halls most the time (catwalks). Which model zebralight should I try out? I'm up for taking advice and investing in it. Which light would fit my needs?


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## TCY

Dssanii19 said:


> So many models of Zebralights! What's a good model to go with? I work Maintenace in a casino and am in very dark halls most the time (catwalks). Which model zebralight should I try out? I'm up for taking advice and investing in it. Which light would fit my needs?



I assume maintenance is mostly close up work? If that's the case, flashlights/headlamp with a floody beam profile would be good. Look for models with "F" in it eg. SC600Fd III Plus or H600Fd/c for a headlamp variant. For full flood and zero throw which is perfect for close-up work, go for headlamps like the H603 series.


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## Beckler

*Does this light make sense?*

I'd like to consider this light but just thinking, does it make any sense? I guess the question is what's under the frosted lens. It looks like a reflector of some sort, so what's the point of having a fixed frosted lens? Why wouldn't it be removable - so you can use it without, this way having far greater versatility. Unless there's some other reason (other than being easier for zebralight, since they don't have to design a proper removable lens), it seems like a waste on a $100 light. Makes it very specific-use, which isn't necessarily bad but there should be a more versatile version too then.

Edit: The website mentions frosted lens is to smooth beam artifacts. So it may be that without the lens it's really the same flood beam. Which means you really need to buy 2 - this and the normal SC600.


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## snowlover91

*Re: Does this light make sense?*



Beckler said:


> I'd like to consider this light but just thinking, does it make any sense? I guess the question is what's under the frosted lens. It looks like a reflector of some sort, so what's the point of having a fixed frosted lens? Why wouldn't it be removable - so you can use it without, this way having far greater versatility. Unless there's some other reason (other than being easier for zebralight, since they don't have to design a proper removable lens), it seems like a waste on a $100 light. Makes it very specific-use, which isn't necessarily bad but there should be a more versatile version too then.
> 
> Edit: The website mentions frosted lens is to smooth beam artifacts. So it may be that without the lens it's really the same flood beam. Which means you really need to buy 2 - this and the normal SC600.



It really depends on how you use the light. I have one, and it's great for up close work and indoors. Outside it works great for walking and such but won't have much range since it's floody. The frosted lens is designed to smooth out beam artifacts from the LED. If you need more throw and something for outdoors I would consider the MK3 HI model or the regular MK3.


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## TCY

*Re: Does this light make sense?*



Beckler said:


> I'd like to consider this light but just thinking, does it make any sense? I guess the question is what's under the frosted lens. It looks like a reflector of some sort, so what's the point of having a fixed frosted lens? Why wouldn't it be removable - so you can use it without, this way having far greater versatility. Unless there's some other reason (other than being easier for zebralight, since they don't have to design a proper removable lens), it seems like a waste on a $100 light. Makes it very specific-use, which isn't necessarily bad but there should be a more versatile version too then.
> 
> Edit: The website mentions frosted lens is to smooth beam artifacts. So it may be that without the lens it's really the same flood beam. Which means you really need to buy 2 - this and the normal SC600.



There's a heavy OP reflector under the frosted lens, these two work together to smooth out beam artifacts coming from the XHP50 inside. There would be a dark hole in the middle of the beam if the frosted lens is replaced with a clear version. 

I don't think any of the manufacturers are designing flashlights with removable lens as this will basically render a flashlight's water proof feature non-existent, and dust would cover the surface of the reflector and LED inside whenever the lens is removed.


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## Bluebloa

staticx57 said:


> Just get some Samsung 30Q or LG HG2. Both are excellent cells.


I agree. LgHG2 is my best choice.


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## vrruumm

Crap. broke my lens. now what???


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## TCY

vrruumm said:


> Crap. broke my lens. now what???



Send ZL an email, get a RMA and send the light back for a repair/replacement.

Out of curiosity, how did it brake?


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## noboneshotdog

vrruumm said:


> Crap. broke my lens. now what???



My co-worker broke his. Took over 2 months to get it back repaired. Just a heads up.


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## snowlover91

noboneshotdog said:


> My co-worker broke his. Took over 2 months to get it back repaired. Just a heads up.



Yeah shipping to china and back takes awhile plus the turn around time to fix it. Wish they had a US facility, would make for much faster turn around time.


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## vadimax

*Re: Does this light make sense?*



TCY said:


> There's a heavy OP reflector under the frosted lens, these two work together to smooth out beam artifacts coming from the XHP50 inside. There would be a dark hole in the middle of the beam if the frosted lens is replaced with a clear version.
> 
> I don't think any of the manufacturers are designing flashlights with removable lens as this will basically render a flashlight's water proof feature non-existent, and dust would cover the surface of the reflector and LED inside whenever the lens is removed.



There are lights that settle that issue perfectly because of their modularity: Elzetta, Malkoff, etc  And their water resistance is not compromised at all.


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## TCY

*Re: Does this light make sense?*



vadimax said:


> There are lights that settle that issue perfectly because of their modularity: Elzetta, Malkoff, etc



Good point, but I think Beckler is talking about swapping out the lens only, not the entire head.


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## vadimax

*Re: Does this light make sense?*



TCY said:


> Good point, but I think Beckler is talking about swapping out the lens only, not the entire head.



This idea is not up with Zebralight marketing policy. They want you to possess separate lights


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## TCY

*Re: Does this light make sense?*



vadimax said:


> This idea is not up with Zebralight marketing policy. They want you to possess separate lights



It's good that I'm only into HI CRI flooder at the moment and I have a M43 for fun :thumbsup:


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## Auringonvalo

*Re: Does this light make sense?*

Anyone tested Sanyo NCR18650GA and Sony Konion US18650VTC6 battery with this light? I keep using H1 mode mostly and heard that VTC6 voltage drops slower with high discharge, so any benefits in this case? VTC6 costs ~ 25% more than Sanyo.

VTC6 can tolerate higher usage temperatures than Sanyo (80C vs 60C)? Now if I only could tweak SC600Fd max temp so that it goes up to 75C instead factory 55C max limit. Light itself is rated to 85C, if I remember correctly. Zebralight email support said that they can't control which batteries people use when I told about VTC6's higher temp tolerance and therefore asked higher max temp setting.


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## TCY

*Re: Does this light make sense?*



Auringonvalo said:


> Anyone tested Sanyo NCR18650GA and Sony Konion US18650VTC6 battery with this light? I keep using H1 mode mostly and heard that VTC6 voltage drops slower with high discharge, so any benefits in this case? VTC6 costs ~ 25% more than Sanyo.
> 
> VTC6 can tolerate higher usage temperatures than Sanyo (80C vs 60C)? Now if I only could tweak SC600Fd max temp so that it goes up to 75C instead factory 55C max limit. Light itself is rated to 85C, if I remember correctly. Zebralight email support said that they can't control which batteries people use when I told about VTC6's higher temp tolerance and therefore asked higher max temp setting.



The SC600Fd Plus requires a maximum continuous current of 8A on H1 which both batteries can easily deliver. Temperature doesn't matter as SC600Fd's PID will kick in long before the battery reaches 60C, and I doubt that the VTC6's discharge curve would yield any significant benefit over the 18650GA given the difference in price.


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## recDNA

Are these still green?


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## snowlover91

recDNA said:


> Are these still green?



Only a few were slightly green tinted, many others have bought these with no issues whatsoever.


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## TheRealSpinner

Good! I just ordered one today. Planning on replacing my SC63w as my EDC.


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## recDNA

TheRealSpinner said:


> Good! I just ordered one today. Planning on replacing my SC63w as my EDC.


Please let us know about the tint


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## evgeniy

Does ZL plans to produce Zebralight SC600*Fc* III Plus with 4000K ?


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## geokite

Any recommendations for a silicone diffuser for this light? Preferably GITD

Steve


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## Merkurio

Hello there!


I'm interested in acquiring my first "serious" flashlight, and Zebralight caught my attention from the very beginning (after researching other first-name brands).


Do you think the SC600Fd III Plus (Neutral White) is a valid first choice for a neophyte? I really like the opinions about size, UI, and build quality of the SC600 series, seems like is one or the best (or the better) EDC flashlight out there.


I plan to use it when I walked with my family and dog in some dark areas around parks, home tasks and sure, for testing and enjoyment.


Other people told me that the XHP50 model was very floody (but indeed I want this), and the XHP35 model could be a better suit for me. What do you think about that? I'm not interested in a very thrower light, at least for now.


Furthermore, I like to know if the frosted lenses have a negative impact comparing to the normal ones in the XHP35 model.


Really appreciate your help!


Greetings. :thumbsup:


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## Connor

:welcome:

Merkurio, the SC600Fd III Plus is an excellent choice for short range (up to ~25 meters) illumination because it is indeed very floody. The high CRI LED makes it a much better choice than the XHP35 models in my opinion. 
A frosted lens reduces light output by ~10% and they are by design a little more susceptible to impacts but in return you get a wonderfully even "wall of light".


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## TCY

Connor said:


> :welcome:
> 
> Merkurio, the SC600Fd III Plus is an excellent choice for short range (up to ~25 meters) illumination because it is indeed very floody. The high CRI LED makes it a much better choice than the XHP35 models in my opinion.
> A frosted lens reduces light output by ~10% and they are by design a little more susceptible to impacts but in return you get a wonderfully even "wall of light".



Well said. How are you liking yours? Still use it on a regular basis?


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## TCY

One more thing I'd like to add. If you decide to pull the trigger, this light needs unprotected high discharge (8A continuous) 18650 battery with a length of 65.0-65.2mm. There are a number of good batteries, with Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA being one of the most popular and cost effective choice.

:welcome:


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## Connor

TCY said:


> Well said. How are you liking yours? Still use it on a regular basis?



Excellent flashlight. I use mine every day, multiple times. :candle:
I second the recommendation for Sanyo NCR18650GA or LG INR18650MJ1 cells.


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## vrruumm

I cracked my frosty lens on my sc600 a few months ago, did nothing about it, and continued to abuse the light... Eventually the whole pressed in bezel and cracked glass fell out in my pocket. Fortunately the reflector didn't get too scratched up. I use the light daily as an automotive mechanic, and dont really have a practical back-up light....so... I cut a 26.5mm x 1.5mm lens out of a new replacement welding helmet outer lens (polycarbonate?) and pressed it back into place. I now have a clear lensed sc600fd III plus xhp50 light. I do like the new slightly narrower beam spread better, but.... well... I guess a picture is worth a thousand words







I dont notice the donut hole in the beam, unless im lighting up a white wall, but there it is, the artifact.






Just thought I'd share exactly why not to put a crappy clear lens in a light that wasn't designed for it!


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## vrruumm

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LRAn-pBaZipeJd8mA8X35JHB3FNon2fD8Q/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FgTvDNLTXJ1N_a2M5pMJqo_xPX5K3oaglw/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tYa41bC1AFqo0hbGRtLw847aed6cz20OCA/view?usp=sharing


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## TCY

Thanks for sharing. I can definitely see the donut ring on the white wall hunting photo, but it seems to disappear when shining through the woods. Tint looks pure white although that could be your phone's auto WB doing the work.


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## vrruumm

TCY said:


> Thanks for sharing. I can definitely see the donut ring on the white wall hunting photo, but it seems to disappear when shining through the woods. Tint looks pure white although that could be your phone's auto WB doing the work.




Interesting side note-

I'm completely color blind. Black white and grey. (the idea of color kinda confuses me) The high cri light from this lamp is so much easier for me to work with than any other led light i've ever owned.


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## low

My son is colorblind, so I let him choose from all my flashlights, and he chose the SC62d. He said it looked "crystal clear". It seems that any tint whatsoever is not good for a colorblind person. (red-green) And I had several Nichia's to choose from. I'm glad you found a keeper!


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## fnsooner

geokite said:


> Any recommendations for a silicone diffuser for this light? Preferably GITD


I purchased the 20-25 mm silicone diffusers from fasttech but that was for the SC6x series. Not glow in the dark though.


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## RIX TUX

ANY body know how to get lens out of this ZL?


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## Keitho

Hammer


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## noboneshotdog

Yup. The bezel is press fit and nearly impossible to get out. Not sure if I have heard of anyone that has perfected removal. They are rarely modded due to the challenges.


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## TCY

Just FYI Vinh opened up a SC600 MK3 (I assume perfect removal because it's Vinh's work?) and he couldn't mod it because it was perfect. The video of him explaining is on his Youtube channel. Unless you would like to swap in a different LED there's really no point open it up.


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## RIX TUX

CRACKED.......does zl do it?


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## noboneshotdog

TCY said:


> Just FYI Vinh opened up a SC600 MK3 (I assume perfect removal because it's Vinh's work?) and he couldn't mod it because it was perfect. The video of him explaining is on his Youtube channel. Unless you would like to swap in a different LED there's really no point open it up.



Shoot. If that's the case I may have to ask him to put a 219c 4000K in mine.


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## staticx57

noboneshotdog said:


> Shoot. If that's the case I may have to ask him to put a 219c 4000K in mine.


Not in this light he won't. The XHP50 in this light is a 6V emitter where as the 219 is a 3V emitter. Theoretically you can take a driver from a different zebralight and swap it in, but at that point it is more trouble and you would have been better off with starting from a different zebralight.


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## noboneshotdog

staticx57 said:


> Not in this light he won't. The XHP50 in this light is a 6V emitter where as the 219 is a 3V emitter. Theoretically you can take a driver from a different zebralight and swap it in, but at that point it is more trouble and you would have been better off with starting from a different zebralight.



True. Thanks


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## Alyx

What are the differences between the SC600Fd and SC600F other than the latter being more powerful in terms of lumens?


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## TCY

Alyx said:


> What are the differences between the SC600Fd and SC600F other than the latter being more powerful in terms of lumens?



"d" means higher CRI, tint within a smaller variance (3 vs 5 Macadam Ellipse ) and neutral white (5000K) tint.


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## Derek Dean

RIX TUX said:


> CRACKED.......does zl do it?


Yes. I had a light ZL fixed a few years ago. The process involved contacting them, then shipping them the light (which I recommend you to use tracking, because ZL did not send a confirmation when they received it) along with a check for $15. Then they ship it to their factory in China, where it is fixed and shipped back, then they ship it back to you. It took about a month. Of course it could be slightly different now, so start by contacting them.


----------

