# Laser goes 1,000 miles?



## LuxLuthor (Aug 16, 2007)

Glad they nailed this dumbass, but saying this laser goes 1,000 miles? Maybe from the moon.


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## Aseras (Aug 16, 2007)

it might be visible at 1000 miles but i doubt it. It only takes a ~2 watt laser to hit the apollo reflector on the moon, ~239,000 miles.

looks like a aries/pgl-iii laser.


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## AJ_Dual (Aug 16, 2007)

We were discussing this on Laserpointerforums.

Someone posted an example of how some HAM's (Or the European equiv.) set up a laser phone over the English Channel from Dover to Calais. And a 5mW red diode was visible (with a beam expander/collimator) at the 20-odd miles, straight through sea-level atmosphere. oo:

Not bad.

And going straight up, or at an angle, it stands to reason the air gets thinner, and much cleaner.

However, I do agree that there's a great deal of exaggeration and hyperbole on the part of the media and the prosecutor. I doubt the air-crews were even close to being blinded or even irritated. It's clear that the putz intentionally targeted aircraft though, and for that I've no problem with the fed.gov throwing the book at him. It's a stretch, but someday someone might have an even higher powered device, and happen to lase an aircraft fighting inclement weather, wind shear, or mechanical failure. And that could be the difference between life and death.

What does leave me slightly unsettled is there's a component of _simply being noticed by an air-crew_ to these crimes. Which makes me worried for the truly innocent star-pointer or experimenter. Even people with HID searchlights etc.

OTOH, such an unlucky lasing of an aircraft would most likely be very brief, and not repeated, unlike intentional targeting.


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## comozo (Aug 16, 2007)

Laser contact with France

http://www.lasercomms.org.uk/france.htm


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 17, 2007)

There's a big difference between 20-40 mile laser ranges...and 1,000 miles.....not to mention the fact that jets rarely fly higher than 8-10 miles unless in route to the Space Station, or giving the rage weightless Russian space rides in the MIG 25.


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## Led_Blind (Aug 17, 2007)

Hmm, that lawyer chick has the worst voice. No wonder she's a lawyer.

Anyways, that news report gives the impression that he was the owner of a high powered laser and so was guilty of pointing it at planes. I am sure there is more real evidence that was not reported, or i hope there is.

My bulshitometer went buzzing at the "1000 mile" comment. The stammering by the chick shows she knew it was a load of bull but stated it anyway. PLEASE DEFINE RANGE. 

Wait, she also accused him of targeting and hitting an aircraft at over 10km away!?!?!?!?! The dot would have to be at a minimum of 10meters in diameter, been influenced by all sorts of atmospheric conditions and in general be scattered all over the place..... 

I sincerely hope this is not a case of "hey your house is close to where we think it came from, mind if we take a look? Oh look, a high powered pointer. Sir, you are under arrest......"

Sorry, but i hate knee-jerk reactions and poor reporting. If there is more real detail that i am missing pls post links.


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## comozo (Aug 17, 2007)

A valuable resource http://www.pangolin.com/resguide09c.htm


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## jason9987 (Aug 17, 2007)

They said the lives of the hundreds of people on the 4 aircraft were, at risk, that is such BS, a reflection of the sun off a window while your driving is probably a heck of lot closer to being blinding than a laser from the ground miles away, I understand it being illegal and arresting people but they shouldnt over inflate the danger so much. I mean its not like aiming up like that you could even get a direct eye shot with it and even if you could it wouldn't be enough to cause any real danger


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## Aseras (Aug 17, 2007)

well i think it's worth pointing out that a $35 spotlight at walmart would be better at blinding a pilot on takeoff than almost any laser pointer. That said a blind pilot isn't as big of a deal on takeoff as it is on landing. the plane can fly itself for takeoff. it can't land. Blinding a plane pilot on landing is next to impossible unless you have some vantage point ( like a building or a hill around the san diego airport for instance, disclaimer: I live in florida so if something happens it wasn't me ) so you can actually hit the cockpit windows, or you are standing on the runway.


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## FNinjaP90 (Aug 17, 2007)

I say bullcrap. At 35,000ft, a 1mrad laser will have a dot 35ft across. Spread 200mW across 1000sq ft and it's nothing at all, not to mention the power loss of traveling through 7 miles of air and water vapor. Most likely invisible to the pilot.


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## Gazoo (Aug 17, 2007)

Andrea Simmons looked like she did not know what she was talking about and made false claims...talk about ignorant. I am all for nailing anyone who does intentional harm to anyone else or anything using a laser. But this media report is so one sided, it's ridiculous. 

I think it should be noted in this day and age, I can understand some of the paranoia. I suppose a terrorist could use a laser to target an aircraft. But at 7 miles, much less 1000 miles (ha.ha.ha.ha) give me a break. It just goes to show some people in our government have no common sense, just as some who use lasers have no common sense.


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## comozo (Aug 17, 2007)

FNinjaP90 said:


> I say bullcrap. At 35,000ft, a 1mrad laser will have a dot 35ft across. Spread 200mW across 1000sq ft and it's nothing at all, not to mention the power loss of traveling through 7 miles of air and water vapor. Most likely invisible to the pilot.



Granted the lawyer exaggerated, but I doubt it would be invisible. 
I have no trouble seeing the omni-directional running lights of a jet flying overhead at 30,000 or so feet. It also does not mention the output of the class 3b laser, that would from the ground at that distance directly determine how visible the laser would be. Look at my previous post this thread at how far a red laser pointer's <5mw light can travel and still be seen with optical aids, but still impressive.


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## Aseras (Aug 19, 2007)

comozo said:


> Granted the lawyer exaggerated, but I doubt it would be invisible.
> I have no trouble seeing the omni-directional running lights of a jet flying overhead at 30,000 or so feet. It also does not mention the output of the class 3b laser, that would from the ground at that distance directly determine how visible the laser would be. Look at my previous post this thread at how far a red laser pointer's <5mw light can travel and still be seen with optical aids, but still impressive.



a laser at that distance would look like a bright green, red or whatever light.

the lasers looks a lot like an aries/pgl-iii laser so it's probably 100-200mw.

keep in mind the air is thin and there's less crap in it so the beam would be invisible unless it hit a cloud.

the only way these people get caught is if they do it repeatedly, or if someone on the ground reports them.


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## Wincet (Aug 21, 2007)

Led_Blind said:


> I sincerely hope this is not a case of "hey your house is close to where we think it came from, mind if we take a look? Oh look, a high powered pointer. Sir, you are under arrest......"



Definitely, is there anyway to actually pinpoint the exact location from which the laser was being pointed from without preparing for it time. That combined with the level of misinformation about lasers would lead to many wrong convictions...


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## Led_Blind (Aug 21, 2007)

What i am noticing more an more with respects to the law is that determination of intent it the sole responsibility of the accuser. That is the actual intent of the accused is dismissed, they are then left to disprove a negative.


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## allthatwhichis (Aug 22, 2007)

Here is a very good article on laser and aviation safety located on the Pangolin site. :wave:


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## silthdraeth (Aug 22, 2007)

In the video they verbally say class 3 laser. So no a class 3 is not going to go 1000 miles, unless perhaps it is in a vacuum.


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## comozo (Aug 22, 2007)

silthdraeth said:


> In the video they verbally say class 3 laser. So no a class 3 is not going to go 1000 miles, unless perhaps it is in a vacuum.



Wanna bet 
http://www.lasercomms.org.uk/76km.htm


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## Patriot (Aug 23, 2007)

Any idiot who aims a green laser intentionally at an aircraft ought to be arrested. My only concern is how is that to be determined? I can just see a police helicopter noticing your green laser in the air and the next thing you know you're getting arrested. You could say that the laser wasn't even pointed in their direction and it would be your word against theirs. Geeez....I wonder who would win that? If your green laser is ever pointed skyward, how does the occational user or enthusiast protect himself from eronious claims? Kinda scary.


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## luvlasers (Aug 24, 2007)

Laser pointers and portable lasers have been misrepresented because of all those fools who have shone them at aircraft. There has also been a lot of hype created by the media who thrive on the sensationalism. The result is the average Joe on the street honestly beleives that a laser pointer can easily bring down an aircraft.

Politicians catch onto this, start formulating policies and making laws (to win votes) that have no bearing on reality. It is a stupid chain of events that makes lasers more difficult to use for enthusiasts.

The solution for this problem as for so many other problems is education.

Rant over


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## jhosaki (Aug 24, 2007)

comozo said:


> Wanna bet
> http://www.lasercomms.org.uk/76km.htm


 
Umm.. By my calculations, the difference between 76 km and 1000 miles (1609 km) is a very noticeable 1533 km. The idea that something which is possible at 76km is equally possible at 1609 km is just silly.

As an example, go ride your bike for 76 km without drinking any water. It will take you about 4 hours if you ride hard and you will be dehydrated. Then, continue riding your bike for another 1533 km without stopping for water. It will take 76 hours (assuming 20km/h speed) and you will be dead. There is a big difference between 76 and 1600. Lasers do not go 1000 miles on the planet earth, only in space.


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## Ashton (Aug 24, 2007)

I think this is a mossconception from some overly-educated idiot. according to the laws of physics, yes, a laser can go 1,000 miles, a laser will, in theory, travel to infinity. However, this is with NO atmosphere (vacume), and with perfect optics (impossible with today's technology).

It's getting to the point that people are once again, as somone on another site said, equating "laser" with "death ray" and because there is no massive advocacy group like the NRA for lasers, they will eventually be made illegal. Same type deal as with marajuana; it's acctually LESS DANGEROUS and LESS ADDICTIVE than tabacco or liquer, but nobody advocated it, so it was banned (little more to that story, but the premis is the same)

Dissinformation is much easier to spread than truth, because the news like dirty laundry. If you had given them a news story, where some kid with a laser had somehoe used it to stop a crime, it owuld ahve gotten the little 1-minute segment after sports for "feel good news" that most people have already turned off their TVs by the time it comes on.


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