# Planning a new hotwire build



## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 7, 2007)

I was looking into superbulbs, and I found an interesting one that I thought might be fun to play with. It's the Philips 23177, rated at 36V/400W and 16,625 lumens. I'm hoping the filament will be relatively compact, and focusable by a a reasonably-sized reflector. I'm planning a power pack of 35 Titanium high-discharge 1.8Ah AA NiMHs, assembled as five 7-cell hex bundles stacked end-to-end. I'll run taps from each bundle down the length of the pack, for easier charging.

According to SilverFox's NiMH Shootout thread, these cells start at about 1.2V at a 10A draw, and this bulb should pull about 11-12A, so I'm guessing it'll basically start at around 1.17V per cell, giving a total pack voltage of ~41V, which is about 14% overdrive. I'm hoping that the bulb will be able to handle that, because removing a 7-cell hex bundle to get 28 cells would give a voltage of 1.17*28=32.76 and a drive ratio of only 91%.

So, any suggestions?


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## mdocod (Jun 7, 2007)

well.. here's what I come up with...

if you could get 40V at the bulb after resistance (it will probably be less that this)... then you could get almost 20-24K bulb lumens with a re-rated life of about 15 hours or so. 


.. after looking at a few spec pages and various "cross-reference" lamps... it appears that it might be a 14,500 lumen lamp.... either way, it's a lot, and the efficiancy looks pretty good.. that's why I'm saying "20-24 thousand" lumens up there... because it depends on which lamp spec is right, lol.

the only specification I was able to find that seems to stay consistant from one source to another is the lamp life of 50 hours at 36V.. 

I *think* it's supposed to be about 3450K at 36V... but I found one site with it listed as 3200K.. (which would not make any since for a lamp driven to this low a life and this high an efficiancy)... Rerated CCT could be as high as 3570K... hard to say...


anyways.. in conclusion.. I think the bulb will handle 35 cells. After all the resistance from that large of a pack configuration, I'd suspect you'll get more like 38V at the bulb on rested cells, which would be fine... I think this setup could probably handle being turned on pretty fresh off the charger. Depends how warm the cells are I suppose... since heated cells tend to deliver more oomf.


Most places that sell the lamp suggest proper ventalation... obviously, you probably won't have that but probably won't be running it realy long either...
I was wondering... what host are you putting this in? Might be pretty cool in a spotlight host (thor type thing).


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## mdocod (Jun 7, 2007)

jus found something really weird..
http://www.1000bulbs.com/product.php?product=7482

~400watts... 750s hours... but it claims 75lm/w, 30,000 lumens... just have to come up with more volts for it, lol.


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## BigusLightus (Jun 7, 2007)

Geez, 75 lumens per watt. Wow!


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## Aircraft800 (Jun 7, 2007)

mdocod said:


> jus found something really weird..
> http://www.1000bulbs.com/product.php?product=7482
> 
> ~400watts... 750s hours... but it claims 75lm/w, 30,000 lumens... just have to come up with more volts for it, lol.


 
Wow! At $243.25 Each bulb, that would be a expensive evperiment!


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 7, 2007)

Great! Thanks, mdocod. Glad to hear that I won't be pushing that bulb TOO hard.

Total runtime for that batt pack will probably be at most 10min or so, so I should be fine as far as ventilation goes, letting it cool between short runs.

The body I'm thinking of is an aluminum tube, so that it can actually be handled like an ordinary flashlight. I've already got an LK12 in a spotlight host, so I wanted to shoot for something different.

I hope it'll be able to start a fire quicker than the LK12.


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## mdocod (Jun 7, 2007)

it'll be interesting to see if it works... the problem I see... is... lets say you were able to get resistance WAY down (more than I'm expecting) and you tried to run it with "hot" off the charger packs.. Lets say each cell is above 1.4V resting "hot" and yearning to go.. If somehow, the bulb were to see more than ~42V for some reason... then you'd be itching on instaflash territory....

Like I said, doubt it's going to happen.. but if you do built it.. rest the cells for the first run and try to take V-Bulb readings if possible.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 7, 2007)

Sounds good; I'll let the cells rest after charging.

Well, newspaper ignition time for the LarryK12 is one minute. I wonder how well this new build will do...


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## DM51 (Jun 7, 2007)

Following this with GREAT interest. Can't wait to see some pics!


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 7, 2007)

So, 5 cells in each of 7 sticks grouped into one long hex, or 7 cells in each of 5 hexes stacked end-to-end? For the former, it'll be harder to bundle the sticks into a tight hex, but for the latter, I'll have to use more battery bars and isolate each hex from the next while needing fewer charging taps.

Button top, or flat top?


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## mdocod (Jun 7, 2007)

7 cells per pack will make the best use of space... (just experimented with this)

1 in the middle and 6 around the outside of it fills the space up and makes a nice perfect cicrle of cells, 5 cells, no matter how you arrange them, is pretty lousy


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 7, 2007)

No no, what I meant was if I should make seven sticks, each one being 5 cells long, and then bundle them into a hex configuration, basically meaning a bunch of end-to-end soldering with a few bars as opposed to just a bit of end-to-end soldering with a bunch of bars. I think that's what I'll do.

Here's my favorite setup so far:


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## mdocod (Jun 7, 2007)

ah, that makes more sense now, lol (i'm a visual understander, not a reader understander when it comes to describing objects in space, LOL)

, I think I like the "sticks" idea as well.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 7, 2007)

Cool.

So, button top, or flat top? I'll to need to end-to-end solder them, as well as solder on battery bars and charging taps.


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## mdocod (Jun 8, 2007)

no clue there to be honest. I have very limited experience soldering cells together into packs... (if you saw the results of my attempts at pack building, you wouldn't take advice from me!< lol)


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## DM51 (Jun 8, 2007)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Cool.
> 
> So, button top, or flat top? I'll to need to end-to-end solder them, as well as solder on battery bars and charging taps.


You definitely need to get cells with tabs on if you are going to solder them. You don't want to be soldering direct onto the end of a cell.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 8, 2007)

I've ordered the cells, but the site where I bought the batt bars and silver solder doesn't take credit cards or PayPal. All payment is finalized by phone... I think I'll have to send them a check or something. Weird.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 10, 2007)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Cool.
> 
> So, button top, or flat top? I'll to need to end-to-end solder them, as well as solder on battery bars and charging taps.



Make sure you get flat top for soldering end to end. You don't need tabs with NiMH cells. Just follow that video that goes through the steps. It works perfectly, and I have done a number of cells using the hamnmerhead tip from CBP's site.

Tabs are only for Li-Ion cells where you cannot apply the heat directly to the terminals....also the Li_ion cells don't have the current output to work for these high power hotwires. Their PCB shuts off at 5A, unlike the NiMH high current cells with the Elite or Titanium 1800 High current AA's.

I think you are going to face a risk of instaflashing with the very high startup voltage spike.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 10, 2007)

Yep, ordered the flat tops. We'll just see about the instaflashing when I actually receive the bulb, batteries, battery bars, etc., because right now I don't have ANY of the parts yet. :candle: I'm probably going to cancel that battery bar order from that one store and just order some from Tower Hobbies.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 10, 2007)

What light (tube) are you using for that many?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 11, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> What light (tube) are you using for that many?


The 35AA battery should function all right on its own, as it will be bonded together somehow (superglue, AA epoxy, JB Weld, I don't know), but it won't look too good. If I decide that it's important to me, I'll order an aluminum tube and slide it on.

I'll have to find some small switches that can handle the power, as I don't really want a huge switch like on my LarryK12.

Any reflector ideas?


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 11, 2007)

Well you could start with one of FM's 2.5" or 3" or 3.5" reflectors, or borrow one from one of the HID lights...but that will likely be the more important performance issue. 

I agree making 7 sticks of 5 AA's soldered end to end would be easiest to keep track of which cell may be bad...at least be able to isolate it to a stick of 5, then could check each cell in that stick

Personally, I'm not too optimistic about that bulb with only 50 hr life at 36V, but it's only $6 so what the hell. Here is an Osram 64664 that has 150 life which might give a little more leeway.

I'm gonna start working on some of these other hotwire mods like this 64460 or this 64642 

Is there a listing that describes characteristics of various bulb types such as T-3.5, T-4, T-6 ?


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## mdocod (Jun 12, 2007)

luther.... great work diggin up that 150 hour lamp... I think that would be the next logical step if the 50 hour lamp flashes....

I'm fairly optimistic that the 50 hour lamp will survive a rested pack.

but, for the sake of thinking about it... lets say that 1.3V worth of each cell actually made it to the lamp after all the losses. that's 45.5V... the 50 hour lamp would not survive this, but the 150 hour lamp would be in an optimal position with a re-rated life of about 10 hours.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 12, 2007)

Yeah, basically they have pretty good search/sort between Bulbconnection.com and Osram.com sites to go looking.

Have you found a reference that describes what exactly the various bulb type categories mean like T-3.5 or T-4, or T-6 ? That does not seem to describe the filament, but rather the glass bulb shape or something. I did a google for that but have not found how to use those T numbers yet.

Also, how are you using a rerating for these new bulbs that AWR did not put on the Excel spreadsheet?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 12, 2007)

Those reflectors are all either rare or expensive. Is there any large, bare reflector available commercially for cheap, either Al or SS?


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## mdocod (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm just using the standard halogen re-rating formulas... keep in mind they are not 100% accurate for any bulb, but they are a good ballpark.

life is (Vd/Va)^12ish
brightness is (Va/Vd)^3.5ish 
current is (Va/Vd)^0.55ish
cct is (Va/Vd)^0.317ish

Va=applied voltate
Vd=design voltage

Multiply result by the design value of the specification being re-rated. 

for example... in the case of the lamp we are discussing...
philips 23177, 36V, 400W, 16,625 lumen, 50 hours, 3450K

assuming 40V at the bulb. 
life: (36/40)^12=0.28243, 0.28243x50=14.1215 about 14 hours re-rated life
brightness: (40/36)^3.5=1.446, 1.446x16,625=about 24,000 re-rated lumens
current: (40/36)^0.55=1.05966, 1.05966x11.111=11.774 re-rated amps, 471 re-rated watts
cct: (40/36)^0.317=1.034, 1.034x3450=3567 re-rated color temp

depends heavily on whether or not the original specifications are even all that accurate of course... in reality, every bulb would actually have it's own slightly different re-rating formula based on it's own particular characteristics, like heat dissipation, fill gas, fill gas pressure, envelope size.... so these numbers can only be used to get a rough idea, but it's good enough for most of our type of work, who cares if it's 22,000 or 24,000 lumens, either way, it's a crap load and a half times the square root of holy macaroni mushrooms bright.


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## DM51 (Jun 12, 2007)

mmmm mushroom macaroni

LOL - I can't wait to see this monster in action!


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 12, 2007)

I ordered some of those 14VDC 10A switches Mac uses in his Torch tailcaps which is better than the default Mag switch. I'm gonna put it in the Maglite side hole switch because on the bottom requires two hand operation. 

Will look for 24V 12-15A now


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 12, 2007)

mdocod said:


> I'm just using the standard halogen re-rating formulas... keep in mind they are not 100% accurate for any bulb, but they are a good ballpark.
> 
> life is (Vd/Va)^12ish
> brightness is (Va/Vd)^3.5ish
> ...


 I think you just named this flashlight. How does HMM, or Holy Macaroni Mushroom, sound to y'all?

The bulbs came today! The 62138 is not as big as I had feared, as the connector portion is smaller than the globe portion. The 23177 is about 3/4" wide at the globe (IOW, huge), but the filament is relatively small, especially for that kind of output. The Q4559X filament is huge and gnarly, probably about an inch wide, but the 23177's looks like around half that width, and it's really compact. Lookin' good... (Pics, measurements, and videos as soon as I can manage.)

I'm still lost on the reflector, but I'm checking out Mouser for relays. Speaking of relays, you need a small separate switch and batt to operate the relay, which then switches the "load," right? Is that the basic idea? Do I need to get one specifically rated for DC voltage, or will an AC one be okay?

EDIT: How about a relay like this one (PDF Datasheet)?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 13, 2007)

I just came home and found the cells from AmondoTech waiting for me. Heigh ho, they're button tops instead of the flat tops I ordered. I hope they reply to email quickly...


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## JetskiMark (Jun 13, 2007)

Looks like an interesting project. I am planning on something similar (36V 400W) with a vintage Coleman spotlight host that has an 8 inch metal reflector and adjustable focus.

Regards,
Mark


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 13, 2007)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> I just came home and found the cells from AmondoTech waiting for me. Heigh ho, they're button tops instead of the flat tops I ordered. I hope they reply to email quickly...



Murphy's Law

That relay would likely work, but pricey.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 13, 2007)

I just lost my first post to the new server!  My reply was so long, detailed, witty, entertaining, and once-in-a-lifetime that when I hit "Preview Post," I was logged out and it disappeared. 

How ironic that we're talking about Murphy's Law...

Anyway, from what I can remember, my post was mainly about relays. $30 would be reasonable to me if I could avoid the clutter of a big, clunky switch, but not if the relay is three times as big as a comparable switch would need to be. The one I linked to is (according to the datasheet) about 2.3x1.8x0.9 inches, which is pretty major. Does anyone know of any smaller but similarly-spec'd relays?

Questions about relays, "relay"-ted (ha ha) to the datasheet:

1. A relay is basically a battery-powered switch, right - turn on the relay, and the relay turns on the main circuit?
2. What's "Max. On-State Voltage Drop @ Rated Current [Vpk]" (1.6V is the value in the datasheet)? Does that mean the voltage of my batt pack would drop by the specified amount? If so, that would be a nifty way to step down the voltage away from the instaflash barrier.
3. What's "Max. Off-State Leakage Current @ Rated Voltage [mArms]"? Would that draw current from the main battery (that would drain cells in a hurry!) or from the relay's power source? If so, what's the solution?

If there are no similar relays in a smaller package, I might as well go with a classic ugly-switch.

I'm also stumped on the reflector.

Need input!


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 14, 2007)

Any suggestions on the switch/relay, reflector and window, and methods of keeping the bulb and reflector securely attached to the battery pack or body tube?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 10, 2007)

The flat-tops came in today!





Yep, all those cells will go in one light, and last about ten minutes.

Any ideas for the bulb holder and reflector?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 11, 2007)

That's a nice piece of change worth of Titaniums! They look so pretty stacked up like that....almost a shame to use them.

I was wondering if you could find out what that ceramic paste is that FiveMega uses for his bipin holders. Then you could get some small bore conductive metal tubing and make your own low resistance (with larger wire than KIU uses) holder.

Reflector has to be a decent quality metal heat resistant.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 11, 2007)

I never knew ceramic started out as a paste. :huh:

I thought I could perhaps use the bulb holder from an Auroralite kit, and make an S-bend in each of the bulb's pins. That's more of a last-resort "solution," though. It would be ideal to have one custom-made. Would it even be possible to solder the bulb's pins in place? Would the solder melt from the heat of the bulb?

The reflector would need a pretty large hole in it. I've heard that some reflective finishes can be damaged by heat, and that's something that'll be present in heaps. What finish(es) should I look for?

Those cells do look quite pretty in the big ol' brick, lined up all neatly, shiny from the factory, still in their shrinkwrap...

HAHAHA!





This is the bottom end of the stick I finished a few minutes ago. My first end-to-end connection is on the RIGHT, and the second one is on the LEFT.

Next is the top end of the stick, with the last connections again on the left.





That bit of grey stuff is JB Stik Weld. It's not great as a finish/surface material (easy to cut into or scratch), but it's rigid and is a great insulator (rated at 30Go).

Any ideas on a battery jig and/or iron tip? The main problem seemed to be that I had to have the two cells at an angle to heat the solder between them, and then I would quickly remove the iron and squish them together, but I guess the solder hardened before the cells were nice and parallel. This resulted in a slightly crooked stick. It's very strong, though. I feel like poking someone with it. 

Would it help to get a flat material bent at an angle and rest the cells in the created valley, as a sort of alignment aid?

Resting voltage of the entire 7-cell stick reads at 8.0V. If that's an accurate average value, the entire battery should be around 40V, which hopefully won't cause an instaflash.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 11, 2007)

The ONLY way to solder these is to get one of these "V" magnetic jigs which fits in a vise, and REALLY holds the batteries in place for perfect alignment and you need a strong Iron....like this 60W iron with HammerHead tip (from "Specials" page here at CBP). 

1/17/09 Edit: Note the 60W Iron from CBP is no longer carried, but you can still buy the Hammerhead part from this link...and put it in another 60+W iron from RadioShack, Sears, etc.

You can look at this website for background, but mainly just watch this easy video from RC Groups here. Notice his quick Dremel buzz, and tins first. The 60W gives you the power for a quick contact....and you can see how long he holds it then slides batteries together.

Do one weld, slide it up...keeps it straight, and works just like the video. Wrap it with 1 mil Kapton tape if you want

Careful you insulate that damaged wrapper in your top picture so it doesn't short anywhere.

Here I got out my setup to show you:


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## sysadmn (Jul 11, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> I was wondering if you could find out what that ceramic paste is that FiveMega uses for his bipin holders. Then you could get some small bore conductive metal tubing and make your own low resistance (with larger wire than KIU uses) holder.


 
Does anyone have experience with refractory cement? Is it overkill for a bipin holder?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 11, 2007)

Yeah, I got the impression that my setup was pretty far from ideal. That video made it look so easy. I was using a Weller 5-40W station on setting 2 of 5, with the standard flat chisel tip. I got some fancy silver solder, but forgot to use it and just used my ordinary solder instead. I found that above setting 2.5 or thereabouts, the integrated flux burned to black and left the iron tip a dull gray, no matter how much I tinned it. :duh2:

I think I'll get one of those jigs, and the iron+tip combo you linked to. Will I also need a vice to hold the jig? If that's necessary, where can I get one?

That refractory cement looks interesting. I wonder how much effort it would take to make little bulb holders. I'm guessing that the cement, clay, and vermiculite that the recipe calls for come in large bags, when something like a ketchup packet would probably be enough.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 11, 2007)

The vise you see in my pix I got at Sears, and was cheap. I like it because that suction cup really gives nice portability, and comes with rubber bumpers for holding more delicate hobby things. You do need something to hold the jig firm while sliding the batteries. I also have a permanently bolted vise in the basement.

Again, you could ask Fivemega what he uses, but if he doesn't know/wish to say....you could probably call one of these companies, and explain your purpose, and they would likely know what to use since it is their field.

http://www.aremco.com/a2.html (note product 835 for halogen lamps)
http://www.graphitestore.com/itemDetails.asp?item_id=1570&prd_id=3&cat_id=4&curPage=1
Note image here:


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 19, 2007)

I went ahead and ordered the battery jig and the iron/tip combo. Hopefully, they'll help me make bettery battery sticks, and then I'll order some more cells to replace the ones I n00bed all over.

Do you think that the bulb's heat would be enough to melt solder if it was used to connect the pins to the batt pack terminals?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 19, 2007)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> I went ahead and ordered the battery jig and the iron/tip combo. Hopefully, they'll help me make bettery battery sticks, and then I'll order some more cells to replace the ones I n00bed all over.
> 
> Do you think that the bulb's heat would be enough to melt solder if it was used to connect the pins to the batt pack terminals?



I don't think it will get that hot from radiated IR heat, but never a bad idea to put some insulation. I got some of that Fiberfrax from www.aircraftspruce.com which is really nice quality (cheap) and would work perfect for this.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 1, 2007)

Well, I've decided that flat tops are The Suck for end-to-end soldering. I made a bigger post in Materials/Mechanical/Whatnot, the gist of which is that the iron only heats the shrinkwrap around the contacts, then squeezes the solder to the edges, which shorts the cells. I've destroyed over a dozen cells already this way. I really should have just stuck with the button tops.

I ordered a reflector from Surplus Shed, too.


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## Aircraft800 (Aug 1, 2007)

Let me know how you guys like those flat top Titanium 1800 (Via PM if needed).

I have a few problems with them, the length is inconsistent, and they sometimes don't like to make good contact in a FM battery adapter. I have also had a few vent out some kind of gunk, and it corroded one of my contacts. I have to really pay attention of which ones are paired together, so like sizes are next to each other. 

I am using a much better charger now, but still the venting problem once in a while:shrug:.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 1, 2007)

I tried cranking my Weller station up to level 5, and using that for end-to-end soldering. You know what? It worked quite well - quick and didn't squeeze out the solder and cause shorting.

Well, the Goop is drying. At some point, I'll solder on some battery bars, then I'll find a decent switch and fuse/holder. Then the reflector will come, and I'll see what happens.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 2, 2007)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Well, I've decided that flat tops are The Suck for end-to-end soldering. I made a bigger post in Materials/Mechanical/Whatnot, the gist of which is that the iron only heats the shrinkwrap around the contacts, then squeezes the solder to the edges, which shorts the cells. I've destroyed over a dozen cells already this way. I really should have just stuck with the button tops.
> 
> I ordered a reflector from Surplus Shed, too.



Reading that post shows you didn't follow the video links I gave. Oh well. I have done at least 100 welds with battery packs using the jig and hammer head with not one bad or shorted cell.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 2, 2007)

Actually, I tried to do it exactly as he said. All I didn't do was use extra flux and sand the ends so much (just some light scratching). Also, I didn't remove the shrinkwrap, since that was kind of the problem. It also looked like he was using large cells, like 2/3A, and I'm using the narrower AA. The hammerhead was too wide for this, IMO.

Anyhow, here we are:



 

Do you think that resting voltage would instaflash the 23177?


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 3, 2007)

Well for what it's worth (not much at this far from default), the hotrater gives you 12.25A & 5.6 hrs at that voltage....not taking into account startup spike...I would say a pretty good chance of flash. I seriously doubt you are going to have the 30,000 BL that it projects either...which is 59 L/W 

I forget how high into the 50's L/W the IRC bulbs can get....but this one won't do that.

Your soldering challenges also makes a good case for the welder I got....but I use the hammer on my Amondo 1800 cells. I have one end a bit smaller for POSITIVE top.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 3, 2007)

Surplus Shed emailed and said that they're out of stock on the ~9cm parabolic reflector I ordered. They said they could ship me a ~14cm ellipsoidal reflector. From what I was able to find out with a quick web search, that should work just as well, right?

I'll try hooking it up, and I'll see if it instaflashes. Now that I think about it, what exactly does that look like? My only instaflashes have been deliberately putting ~18V through a 4-cell Mag bulb, so I don't know if that was an ordinary example. Does a common instaflash turn on for a second, then  ? Is that the general idea?

If it does instaflash, what's an easy way to decrease the voltage? A huge diode or something?


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 3, 2007)

I have no idea about the quality of that reflector, nor how that shape would work with a light bulb, nor what the focal point is. Good luck!

The two insta-flashes I have seen was just a weak, sickly flicker of light, then dead...the bulb will show the melted filament with or without glass discoloration. There is no bright flashbulb type effect, and it lasts at most 1/10th of a second.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 4, 2007)

Ah... hence, the term "INSTAflash."  Of course.

I got a couple diodes at Fry's, but I don't think they were the right kind, since when I hooked one up in series, the pack voltage dropped from about 43V to 3V. That didn't seem right at all.

Well, it's my dad's 50th birthday party tomorrow, and we're having a big party, so I had to dismantle my outdoor work area, and so I probably won't be able to do much for the next couple days. Oh well.


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## JetskiMark (Aug 4, 2007)

Thanks for the formulas mdocod.

I am running an Osram 64663 HLX. I'm using 10S LiPos and getting 39.4V at the pins. This is in a LightForce 240 Blitz host. Re-rated bulb lumens is 21943 X 65% = 14262 torch lumens. This thing blows away my LarryK14, which is not an easy thing to do.

Good luck with your build TigerhawkT3.

Regards,
Mark



mdocod said:


> I'm just using the standard halogen re-rating formulas... keep in mind they are not 100% accurate for any bulb, but they are a good ballpark.
> 
> life is (Vd/Va)^12ish
> brightness is (Va/Vd)^3.5ish
> ...


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 12, 2007)

Well, the NiMH pack is busted. I set it on a concrete surface outside (fortunately) to charge, and when I came back, this is what I found lying there at around 130F:





Any tips on safe disposal?

I'm thinking of just going with three 12V SLAs. How about these?


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## JetskiMark (Aug 12, 2007)

My condolences on your loss. Good thing nothing else was damaged.

Those SLAs would work and give you good run time but 3 of them would be about 43 pounds just for the batteries! Being lightweight and portable is important to me. My Blitz weighs 4 pounds 5 ounces and is completely self contained with 20 minutes of calculated run time. My LarryK14 is 9 pounds 4 ounces and seems really heavy, bulky and somewhat dim by comparison.

Regards,
Mark


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## Raoul_Duke (Aug 12, 2007)

JetskiMark said:


> Thanks for the formulas mdocod.
> 
> I am running an Osram 64663 HLX. I'm using 10S LiPos and getting 39.4V at the pins. This is in a LightForce 240 Blitz host. Re-rated bulb lumens is 21943 X 65% = 14262 torch lumens. This thing blows away my LarryK14, which is not an easy thing to do.
> 
> ...



What kind of LiPo cells are you using?

What is their Mah rating. Cheers


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## JetskiMark (Aug 12, 2007)

I am running PolyQuest 10C 4000 mAh Packs. These are much cheaper than 20C or 30C packs and they are more than adequate for this application. I am pulling less than 13 amps from them so they are well below their 40 amp rating. 39.4 volts at the pins times 12.9 amp draw equals over 500 watts of hotwire fun!

Regards,
Mark



Raoul_Duke said:


> What kind of LiPo cells are you using?
> 
> What is their Mah rating. Cheers


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 14, 2007)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Well, the NiMH pack is busted. I set it on a concrete surface outside (fortunately) to charge, and when I came back, this is what I found lying there at around 130F:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Funny how Karma works sometimes. Condolences on your loss.


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## ez78 (Aug 14, 2007)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> I'm thinking of just going with three 12V SLAs. How about these?




Those are really heavy and expensive. How about just someting like this if you are going to try sla:

http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=556

or maybe

http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=555


Still heavy but could be carried around quite easily in a backpack.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 16, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Funny how Karma works sometimes. Condolences on your loss.


What does Karma have to do with batteries? :thinking:


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## TigerhawkT3 (Oct 25, 2007)

Well, regardless of karma (  ), I just ordered three 10Ah, 12V SLAs from Big Time Battery, a.k.a. BatteryJack. Hopefully, it'll work out.

I might get a parabolic reflector from Edmund's, but I don't know.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Oct 30, 2007)

The SLAs are here. I'll stop by OSH to get some material for a "body" of sorts. After that, I'll wire up some connections, create the "body", and fire it up.


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## KevinL (Oct 31, 2007)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> What does Karma have to do with batteries? :thinking:



He's probably saying you should have listened to him. Sorry Lux, that sounded a bit hard even to me. I think he did, just that mistakes were made, things didn't go as planned.. you know, sometimes we hobbyists screw up on our first build, yeah? 

I still want to say thanks for posting that link to the video. For the first time I'm understanding the benefits of a hotter iron - I've typically gone for the low power 15-20W irons on the assumption they would be more forgiving for a n00b like myself. Now I know that quickly in, quickly out is the key thing. I like the fact that he can hold the wire, heat and cool so fast that he can handhold the wire - the heat doesn't travel through the insulation fast enough to burn him. I've never dared handhold my wires, I've always got burned 

While I don't think I'm going to be building any direct-solder soon, that video's given me a good idea of how I can improve my soldering technique. 

As for the packs, I prefer to request those with tabs, they are easier for beginners to solder. My A123 build is definitely going to be tabbed.

Also, I realize in hindsight my choice of soldering surface was absolutely dumb. It was a plastic mat. I should have used a hard surface onto which I could safely press a soldering iron, like a ceramic tile for example.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 31, 2007)

KevinL said:


> He's probably saying you should have listened to him. Sorry Lux, that sounded a bit hard even to me. I think he did, just that mistakes were made, things didn't go as planned.. you know, sometimes we hobbyists screw up on our first build, yeah?
> 
> I still want to say thanks for posting that link to the video. For the first time I'm understanding the benefits of a hotter iron - I've typically gone for the low power 15-20W irons on the assumption they would be more forgiving for a n00b like myself. Now I know that quickly in, quickly out is the key thing. I like the fact that he can hold the wire, heat and cool so fast that he can handhold the wire - the heat doesn't travel through the insulation fast enough to burn him. I've never dared handhold my wires, I've always got burned
> 
> ...



No, it had to do with my observation of of the timing of a quite ugly moment in CPF history that you fortunately missed.....note the day of his posts there, and my observation of Karma at work on 8/14. The fact that I have been able to solder those exact same cells using the exact same battery jig and exact same hammerhead solder iron using the instruction link I gave him is yet another curious irony. :kiss:


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## KevinL (Oct 31, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> No, it had to do with my observation of of the timing of a quite ugly moment in CPF history that you fortunately missed.....note the day of his posts there, and my observation of Karma at work on 8/14. The fact that I have been able to solder those exact same cells using the exact same battery jig and exact same hammerhead solder iron using the instruction link I gave him is yet another curious irony. :kiss:




Ohh, sorry for my comment about being hard, my bad - I did not know it had gone so far south having been away (only returned at the tail end of Oct and had too many posts to catch up with). I hope they found a resolution to that.. I'm reading the thread now


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 31, 2007)

KevinL said:


> I still want to say thanks for posting that link to the video. For the first time I'm understanding the benefits of a hotter iron - I've typically gone for the low power 15-20W irons on the assumption they would be more forgiving for a n00b like myself. Now I know that quickly in, quickly out is the key thing. I like the fact that he can hold the wire, heat and cool so fast that he can handhold the wire - the heat doesn't travel through the insulation fast enough to burn him. I've never dared handhold my wires, I've always got burned
> 
> While I don't think I'm going to be building any direct-solder soon, that video's given me a good idea of how I can improve my soldering technique.
> 
> ...



Kevin, all good points and observations. The other steps that are important are peeling the wrapper so the plastic doesn't melt and interfere with good solder surface contact. Likewise, abrading both ends of the cells, using flux, tinning both ends, using a quality solder (mine is Kester 66/44 in .031 thickness), using a high watt iron that is kept clean from oxidation buildup--so solder melts rapidly without damaging the battery, using the magnetic jig (mine was insulated with a plastic coat + I added clear tape) for quick, straight merging of cells are all essential steps for getting great results. Again, this is the same setup that Mike uses at CheapBatteryPacks.com if someone requests soldered (vs. welded) packs.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Nov 1, 2007)

The SLAs are each around 12.5-12.6V OC. Together with the resistance I'll add after the connections have been made, I think the bulb is pretty safe from instaflash.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jan 1, 2008)

Done.

It can start a fire quite quickly, and the battery box weighs about 25 pounds.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jan 25, 2008)

I'll be able to use the battery and bulb holder from this HMM to power my TVL2 (an 11-Q2 video light). I feel slightly thrifty.


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## Illum (Jul 25, 2008)

any updates on this light?


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