# New Incan Fan



## Sailboat (Sep 18, 2010)

Hey guys, I have the same story of playing around with various lights and trying LEDs of questionable quality.

I bought a Quark AA^2 and realized I TRULY hated LEDs! So just for fun, I bought a Gerber RX-350, to see what something more powerful than a Maglite was like.

Needless to say, I love the little thing! I knew it wasn't going to be some pocketable spotlight, but I truly love it.

I'll probably upgrade at some point, but it out-throws my Quark by MILES, and has my 3D Maglite just about tied.. Not bad for something that costs the same as the Maglite but is only 3 inches long.

I'll be digging around the incan forums looking for something that strikes my fancy, but for now I am very pleased with the Gerber for EDC. 

I'm sure as I become a flashaholic I'll want something with which I can start fires. 

Sailboat


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## Dioni (Sep 18, 2010)

Always is good to see new people joining the incan fan group. Welcome to incan world and....

:welcome:!


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## kramer5150 (Sep 18, 2010)

:welcome:... Welcome to CPF!

One thing I have never understood is why theres always such a HARD line distinction between the LED and incan fan-base. IMHO they are BOTH great in their own ways. My personal favs are a 2D ROP-L, SF-A2, SF-M2 and a 2D-26650-6D Xenon mag mod.

Its nice to have options:thumbsup:


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## ebow86 (Sep 18, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> Hey guys, I have the same story of playing around with various lights and trying LEDs of questionable quality.
> 
> I bought a Quark AA^2 and realized I TRULY hated LEDs! So just for fun, I bought a Gerber RX-350, to see what something more powerful than a Maglite was like.
> 
> ...


 


:welcome: Just wait until you use a surefire incandescent, you won't look at flashlights the same way afterwards.


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## ampdude (Sep 18, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> Hey guys, I have the same story of playing around with various lights and trying LEDs of questionable quality.
> 
> I bought a Quark AA^2 and realized I TRULY hated LEDs! So just for fun, I bought a Gerber RX-350, to see what something more powerful than a Maglite was like.
> 
> ...



Try out a Surefire E2e.

And then pick up a Lumens Factory EO-E2R and a couple of AW's IMR16340 cells in the Marketplace with a WF-139 charger and two aluminum charger spacers for free lumens. :thumbsup:


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## wyager (Sep 18, 2010)

I had an rx-350 (it's in my avatar). I hated it, so I took off the reflector assembly and stuck an LED on the top 

OP, try a high-cri LED....


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## Imon (Sep 18, 2010)

ebow86 said:


> :welcome: Just wait until you use a surefire incandescent, you won't look at flashlights the same way afterwards.



Wait until he sees the price on the A2 Aviator. 

Or perhaps the M6.


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## Dioni (Sep 18, 2010)

Imon said:


> Wait until he sees the price on the A2 Aviator.
> 
> Or perhaps the M6.


 
I'd say "wait until he see the quality on A2 and M6" :nana:


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## oldways (Sep 18, 2010)

Wait till he sees the BEAM of the M6 and A2.


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## ebow86 (Sep 18, 2010)

Imon said:


> Wait until he sees the price on the A2 Aviator.
> 
> Or perhaps the M6.


 

The A2 aviator is a steal for the price their selling for.


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## ampdude (Sep 18, 2010)

The A2 isn't exactly what I'd call a "wow" incan light anyways.


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## Flashfirstask?later (Sep 18, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> Hey guys, I have the same story of playing around with various lights and trying LEDs of questionable quality.
> 
> I bought a Quark AA^2 and realized I TRULY hated LEDs! So just for fun, I bought a Gerber RX-350, to see what something more powerful than a Maglite was like.
> 
> ...


To be fair the Quark AA^2 is not at all a good comparison for throw as the tiny reflector and XP-G R5 emitter creates a large spot compared to say a XR-E with a larger reflector.


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## Sailboat (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks for the warm welcome (literally! Love them incan colors!) and light recommendations guys!



Flashfirstask?later said:


> To be fair the Quark AA^2 is not at all a good comparison for throw as the tiny reflector and XP-G R5 emitter creates a large spot compared to say a XR-E with a larger reflector.



Reflector isn't much smaller than the RX, but obviously the teeny tiny filament on the Xenon bulb makes much better use of the limited reflector. 

Throw isn't as big of a factor for me though.. I have a sailboat with lots and lots of lines.. all of which are color coded, and the same diameter. This is very nice during the day, but at night I can't keep things in the cockpit straightened out very well. Having perfect color rendition is probably the most important thing, so I know I'm pulling on the right line! The AA^2 didn't offer that..AT ALL.

Price isn't a huge factor for me. It's for safety on my boat. The Gerber is actually very good for me because blasting a bright light at white fiberglass hurts like hell. That's another reason the comparatively bright Quark was bad. If I turned it down enough that it didn't hurt my eyes, I couldn't see anything except what was in my hand!

Salient points: Good throw, (critical in case I have electrical failure on-board and my nav lights go out, lighting up the sail is the SOP) good output adjustments, and I have to like the light enough I'll always remember to carry it on board. That is critical.. If I don't like it, I'm not thinking about it, and I WILL forget it. 

I think this is one case where Incans are CLEARLY superior. An LED can't even come close. How I am supposed to find the red rope when it looks the EXACT same as the brown rope, and see where a tangle or snag is, all without getting them confused and burning my retinas out? 

More throw with less lumens and better color? Oh hell yeah!


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## KiwiMark (Sep 19, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> and has my 3D Maglite just about tied..



Wait 'til you get that Maglite modded.


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## Imon (Sep 19, 2010)

ampdude said:


> The A2 isn't exactly what I'd call a "wow" incan light anyways.



Meh, it's a regulated incandescent. You don't see many production regulated incandescent lights.


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## wyager (Sep 19, 2010)

Imon said:


> Meh, it's a regulated incandescent. You don't see many production regulated incandescent lights.



What's the point? If you want regulation, just get a high CRI LED! :shrug:


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## Hack On Wheels (Sep 19, 2010)

wyager said:


> What's the point? If you want regulation, just get a high CRI LED! :shrug:



For sheer lighting pleasure, an good incan still beats out a high-CRI LED. That being said, I was dreaming of an A2 Aviator with high-CRI LEDs for the secondaries... that would be amazing.

My D10 with high-CRI LED is great for a compact EDC, but as soon as it gets to a 2x123 or 1x18650 form factor, then its time to take a serious look at an incan option. I love the E series incan options. So many to choose from! I have lights from 60 to 300+ lumens, and no bigger than the 2x123 size. Eventually I might even put together one that is 1000+ lumens... :devil:

For general carry at night, I love the ROP-Lo in my 2C Mag. Somehow it seems like far more light than it should be from the approx. lumens. I'm using an MOP reflector and the beam is gorgeous. Also, the flat output curve of li-ions with a reasonable power draw means it might as well be regulated.

I'll be soldering up a total of 3 new LED setups with a mix of neutral and high-CRI emitters tomorrow, but I'm still dreaming up new incan setups at the same time. lovecpf


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## SureAddicted (Sep 19, 2010)

ampdude said:


> Try out a Surefire E2e.



That would of been my suggestion as well, or an E2d.
The best utility lights money can buy.


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## ampdude (Sep 19, 2010)

Imon said:


> Meh, it's a regulated incandescent. You don't see many production regulated incandescent lights.



What's the point? Any flashlight run on lithium ion rechargeables is fairly regulated anyways, as the voltage stays fairly consistent. The A2's I've owned were some of the most orange tinted incans I had, the Li-ion and IMR powered lights are much brighter and whiter. An E2e with an EO-E2R is much brighter, smaller and runs longer as well, compared to an A2. I got rid of my A2's for this very reason.


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## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Sep 21, 2010)

ampdude said:


> What's the point? Any flashlight run on lithium ion rechargeables is fairly regulated anyways, as the voltage stays fairly consistent. The A2's I've owned were some of the most orange tinted incans I had, the Li-ion and IMR powered lights are much brighter and whiter. An E2e with an EO-E2R is much brighter, smaller and runs longer as well, compared to an A2. I got rid of my A2's for this very reason.



Should've tried the HO-A2 while you still had your A2s. Much whiter and smoother beam than the stock MA02. I can't compare to the EO-E2R but I preferred my A2 to my E2D that was running a HO-E2R. The E2D has now been sold.


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## jellydonut (Sep 21, 2010)

Opinions seem to be divided - the A2 either still kicks butt, or used to in 2006. Which is it?:ironic:

Maybe I should just go for an M6.. The PhD pack looks lovely but I am already invested in AW 18650s. I want to keep using them rather than investing in a new form factor - is the Megallennium my only option for 3x18650?


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## ampdude (Sep 21, 2010)

UnderTheWeepingMoon said:


> Should've tried the HO-A2 while you still had your A2s. Much whiter and smoother beam than the stock MA02. I can't compare to the EO-E2R but I preferred my A2 to my E2D that was running a HO-E2R. The E2D has now been sold.



I had three unfrosted HO-A2's. I was one of the folks that asked Mark to produce an unfrosted version. It was nice, but the A2 should have been a 6 or 9 volt regulated light, not a 4 volt one.

Surefire should have made it a three or four cell light. But as I mentioned, I've since thought twice about the need for regulated incans in the first place, when li-ion and imr cells are available.


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## oldways (Sep 21, 2010)

If your A2 had an orange or yellow beam there was something wrong with it.


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## ampdude (Sep 21, 2010)

oldways said:


> If your A2 had an orange or yellow beam there was something wrong with it.



No, there was nothing wrong with any of them. They were not particularily orange... just more orange than most of my other lithium powered lamps on lithium ion cells during the majority of the run.


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## Dioni (Sep 21, 2010)

ampdude said:


> No, there was nothing wrong with any of them. They were not particularily orange... just more orange than most of my other lithium powered lamps on lithium ion cells during the majority of the run.


 
I understood what you mean ampude.
However, I need to say I still prefer an orange incan beam to the green/blue/purple led tints!


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## Sailboat (Sep 21, 2010)

Dioni said:


> I understood what you mean ampude.
> However, I need to say I still prefer an orange incan beam to the green/blue/purple led tints!



I'm glad I'm not the only one. lovecpf


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## Sailboat (Sep 21, 2010)

I did some research..Doing my first custom build.

I'm using a Solarforce L2 host with a Lumens Factory EO-6 200 lumen lamp.

Cheap thrills!


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## KevinL (Sep 22, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> I did some research..Doing my first custom build.
> 
> I'm using a Solarforce L2 host with a Lumens Factory EO-6 200 lumen lamp.
> 
> Cheap thrills!



Stick an extender on it and drive 2 x 17500 protected with the EO-9! 380 lumens 

You also have the option of playing with the Surefire P90s, and if the Solarforce can take the Turboheads, you are going to love the Turboheads. 

My favorite smaller incan setups are 9-volt/2x17500, based on the Surefire D3 Defender*, M3, and C2 with A19 extender. 

(* D3 is no longer available.. try C3 or 9P. The D3 is like today's current 9P, except with a pocket clip. Back then the defender naming had nothing to do with the sharpened bezel - mine arrived with a standard flat plain bezel.)

The MN16 in a KT1 is nice. The SRTH turbohead is a real treat 


When you're ready to step up to wicked sick crazy lumen output, around the 1K lumen barrier, try the ROP 2C with 18650 IMR cells.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/259443


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## ampdude (Sep 22, 2010)

Isn't the Solarforce L2 an 18mm host? He could run an IMR-9 on two IMR18500's with an extender instead, it would be a better, brighter setup with probably more runtime as well..

And the EO-9 is a bit much for P17500's.


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## Sailboat (Sep 22, 2010)

ampdude said:


> Isn't the Solarforce L2 an 18mm host? He could run an IMR-9 on two IMR18500's with an extender instead, it would be a better, brighter setup with probably more runtime as well..
> 
> And the EO-9 is a bit much for P17500's.



This was my next plan for expansion, actually. Let me get the 200 lumen toy going first.

I still need a good sailboat light, per my requirements detailed above. I'm definitely open to making a hotwire hotrod light though.

I also bought a Surefire 6P to compare the quality, F&F, etc to the Solarforce. The 6P will probably end up a fondling toy if I'm putting the EO6 in the Solarforce. But when I go to IMR chemistry with an IMR lamp, the EO6 will go in the 6P.

I'm addicted!


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## jkilo (Sep 22, 2010)

I'm just getting into incans myself, Sailboat.

Surefire 6P with the stock P60 is great. You'll love it for your purposes. Just a great, all-around light...Useful balance of brightness and runtime. The G2 is even better; you can grip it comfortably in your mouth for those "hands-free" moments, but it can't be bored-out. And the P60 demands primaries.  

A2 aviator's even more utilitarian, but not a screamer, by any means.

I just went to level 2, awaiting an FM D26 socket/reflector assembly with 1499 and 1794 lamps in a 9P with 2x18500s. This seems to be a nice, powerful, rechargeable combo in a small package with some runtime.

When this fails to satisfy, I guess it's Mag-mod time. Fortunately for us new guys, the path is well-trodden!

Where does the madness end?


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## alpg88 (Sep 22, 2010)

kramer5150 said:


> One thing I have never understood is why theres always such a HARD line distinction between the LED and incan fan-base.


that makes 2 of us

sailboat :welcome:


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## KevinL (Sep 22, 2010)

ampdude said:


> Isn't the Solarforce L2 an 18mm host? He could run an IMR-9 on two IMR18500's with an extender instead, it would be a better, brighter setup with probably more runtime as well..
> 
> And the EO-9 is a bit much for P17500's.



18mm - even better 

I broke out the DMM and clocked the EO-9 at 2.4 amps. I use a "2C" guideline for safe operating limit for li-ion (normal LiCo) cells and a 3C NEVER-EXCEED-AT-ANY-COST maximum limit. My 17500's are 1.1AH, so you're right, they exceed 2C slightly. If you want to err on the side of caution, 18500s and IMRs are better choices. I live slightly dangerously - but I guess that comes with years of hotwiring and dozens of blown bulbs, some explosively so, left in my wake  :devil:

(I had a #3854 bulb literally blow its roof off. It sheared neatly in half in the middle, both halves remaining intact even after the top one decided to 'eject' itself. The moral of the story is to BE CAREFUL around your hot wires: they can be EXTREMELY HOT.)


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## KevinL (Sep 22, 2010)

jkilo said:


> I'm just getting into incans myself, Sailboat.
> 
> Surefire 6P with the stock P60 is great. You'll love it for your purposes. Just a great, all-around light...Useful balance of brightness and runtime. The G2 is even better; you can grip it comfortably in your mouth for those "hands-free" moments, but it can't be bored-out. And the P60 demands primaries.
> 
> ...



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/259443

2C Maglite, Pelican 3854 bulb, METAL reflector, glass lenses, IMR batteries and the party rocks on at 1K+ lumens 

The bulb/reflector/glass can all be swapped out simply by unscrewing things. If you can assemble a flashlight you can do the above. The 2C may require you to wirebrush/deanodize the tailcap. For the EXTREMELY lazy, a 3C only requires you to roll a paper sleeve (or other suitable material) around the batteries and change out the optical headend.


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## Sailboat (Sep 22, 2010)

alpg88 said:


> that makes 2 of us
> 
> sailboat :welcome:



I'm not dismissing LEDs. I happened to hate my Quark, and feel it was a good representation of the performance of LEDs. I could be swayed if someone literally showed me the light.

If I felt that an LED would better serve my purpose, I certainly wouldn't be wasting my money buying 2 Incandescent flashlights.

I really do fail to see how an LED can beat an incan for a light that:

A. Offers me very day-like color rendition.
B. Sufficient throw, WITHOUT blinding lumens, which HURT on fiberglass

I feel like too many LEDs make up for their low surface brightness by blasting me with output. I just need to see, not cook my retinas! 

I don't need a light for much else!


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## KiwiMark (Sep 22, 2010)

I love my LED lights - so useful for so many purposes. I love my Nitecore D10 - running from 1 x AA it fits nicely into my front left jeans pocket and I barely no it's there until I need it. My Liteflux LF2XT on my keyring is also a great little light. I also have some warm tinted LEDs that are quite nice like my Jet-IIIM & Quark 1 x AA.

But around home when I need a light to take the trash out I'll always grab one of my Maglites and when I go camping I'll take one or two of my Maglites as well as my Surefire A2. When I need a light at home the smaller size of my LEDs really doesn't matter, I don't need to fit them in a pocket - I'm happy to grab a bigger light with more light output. When I go camping I find the higher CRI from the incan lights just works better and the Maglites are just great camping flashlights. I'll usually take one of my ROPs with the 2" deep reflector (either my 3854-L or my 3854-H) for good throw and plenty of light, I'll often take a brighter flooder as well like my 3D with the Osram 64430 running at up to 10V (regulated).

My Maglite 2D ROP low (3854-L) with 2" deep reflector + glass lens + aluminium reflector running from 2 x 32650 Li-ion cells is a really great light. It has good output with plenty of light that is fairly white (not like the sickly yellow of the original bulb) and it runs for ~2 hours. With a CRI of 100 the light renders colours very naturally. This isn't a show-off light, it is a truly practical light that can be used for all sorts of everyday (everynight) situations. I even like the fact that it isn't factory - there are very few in the world that are identical to that light (take how many fm deep reflectors have been sold and then think about what percentage of those are currently being used with 3854-L bulbs). Due to its size & weight I don't EDC that light - but I sure do like using it around home and when camping. This is the sort of light everyone should have handy - it just works great.

My 212W/~7000 Lumen incan is great too, just not so practical with its ~10 minutes run time.


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## alpg88 (Sep 22, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> I'm not dismissing LEDs. I happened to hate my Quark, and feel it was a good representation of the performance of LEDs. I could be swayed if someone literally showed me the light.
> 
> If I felt that an LED would better serve my purpose, I certainly wouldn't be wasting my money buying 2 Incandescent flashlights.
> 
> ...


wow, so much hate, damn that rap music, lol.

i personally like both, there are warm and neutral leds that show colors pretty close to hotwire, right reflector will give leds throw(try rebel maglite, it will out throw incandescent mag), as will aspheric lens.
leds can dim and be the same color but lower lm, halogens not really, ever seen multi mode hotwire other than aw mag switch?? i mean useful dimmable hotwire??
believe it or not leds are more efficient in general, leds can be sealed, no need acces to replace bulb, that is just few things, i'm sure others can add more.


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## Sailboat (Sep 22, 2010)

alpg88 said:


> wow, so much hate, damn that rap music, lol.
> 
> i personally like both, there are warm and neutral leds that show colors pretty close to hotwire, right reflector will give leds throw(try rebel maglite, it will out throw incandescent mag), as will aspheric lens.
> leds can dim and be the same color but lower lm, halogens not really, ever seen multi mode hotwire other than aw mag switch?? i mean useful dimmable hotwire??
> *believe it or not leds are more efficient in general, leds can be sealed, no need acces to replace bulb, *that is just few things, i'm sure others can add more.



I don't really need any of that though. I can fit about 6 or 7 thousand CR123 cells in my boat, and probably another 500 replacement lamps. 

From what I've heard, high-CRI LEDs are comparatively low output, and still don't render like hotwire. I have yet to try them, so I can't speak to that.

Production, accessible LEDs already don't throw as well as I'd like. At least not with pocketable head sizes. As far as adjusting my output, I don't want to further reduce surface brightness. I do like to be able to see to the top of a 33 foot mast if something doesn't feel right.

I don't want to cycle through modes to gain throw, but then throttle back so I don't hurt my eyes. 

I'm sure LEDs can fit my application, but it sounds like way more effort, and way too much of a balancing act when incans intrinsically work much, much better.


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## wyager (Sep 22, 2010)

Non-pocketable head sizes??? 
I'm fairly sure that LEDs get more throw per reflector size than incans... and something like the maelstrom G5 or quark turbo isn't really "not pocketable" (to name a few LED throwers).


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## Sailboat (Sep 22, 2010)

wyager said:


> Non-pocketable head sizes???
> I'm fairly sure that LEDs get more throw per reflector size than incans... and something like the maelstrom G5 or quark turbo isn't really "not pocketable" (to name a few LED throwers).



I can't imagine they have the CRI to let me distinguish between brown and red as I need, if my Quark was any indication of the color. 

And to throw, they (LEDs) seem to be very high on the Lumens, and I can't be burning my eyes out looking at the reflection on the glossy fiberglass on my boat.

I'm very needy here! 

I've read otherwise, regarding Incan vs. LED for reflector size. Of course, just reflector size isn't enough, we need to know surface brightness as well.


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## KevinL (Sep 22, 2010)

Let's not argue over the LED vs incan thing  points taken on both sides I'm sure 

Some people see better in incandescent light, others like myself are ok with both. I personally have been lured back to the LED world by the new generation of multicore LEDs but still refuse to give up my ROP. 

Sailboat, don't worry about it - nothing wrong with wanting an incan. Lots of good recommendations have been made. It's time to break out the Paypal and start buying  

Eventually you'll have so many lights that you will just leave them on board for whenever you need them :devil: no Maglite will be safe from the various exotic bulbs we have researched over the years. WA1185, WA1111, 1274, the list goes on.


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## Sailboat (Sep 23, 2010)

KevinL said:


> Let's not argue over the LED vs incan thing  points taken on both sides I'm sure
> 
> Some people see better in incandescent light, others like myself are ok with both. I personally have been lured back to the LED world by the new generation of multicore LEDs but still refuse to give up my ROP.
> 
> ...



Not counting the Gerber experiment, I've already dropped $140 on incans. 

Fastest I've started dropping money outside of boat repairs. 


I'm happy. My 6P should be in tomorrow!


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## KevinL (Sep 23, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> Not counting the Gerber experiment, I've already dropped $140 on incans.
> 
> Fastest I've started dropping money outside of boat repairs.
> 
> ...



Keep going. Flashlights are like an endless money bucket. I have remained dormant and away from CPF for a few years apart from an occasional appearance. This is the first time I'm 'seriously' back - and they have already made me spend a ton of money!

The ROP is one of the more affordable lights and price to lumens ratio is hard to beat


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## Dioni (Sep 23, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one. lovecpf


 
:twothumbs

In my work I've used incans too much in many florestal areas. I've never seen any LED beat them there. 


... Yep, I use LED to other tasks requiring some better runtime although  only...


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## Sailboat (Sep 23, 2010)

KevinL said:


> Keep going. Flashlights are like an endless money bucket. I have remained dormant and away from CPF for a few years apart from an occasional appearance. This is the first time I'm 'seriously' back - and they have already made me spend a ton of money!
> 
> The ROP is one of the more affordable lights and price to lumens ratio is hard to beat



Already digging around for turboheads.. Crap. 

6P seems like a great platform in terms of the stuff you can slap on it!

The P60 style dropin variety is incredible.

On the list already.. Turbohead, battery extender, another EO-6, EO-9, Solarforce Lantern Head..Maybe some embellishing like an Orange boot, and I want a holster. And a lanyard ring.

Wow this is adding up fast.

LEDs will get me curious at some point I'm sure..

It's incredible. Once you've plunked down the $60 for a 6P, it's very cheap to go to other stuff, including an LED conversion.

That Solarforce is the same story, although I probably won't like it as much as the Surefire, as I'm VERY subjective, and just happen to prefer American made things. I guess they have more soul than their knockoffs.


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## ampdude (Sep 23, 2010)

KevinL said:


> I broke out the DMM and clocked the EO-9 at 2.4 amps.



Sounds like it's malfunctioning, the EO-9 should pull about 1.9A on new batteries.


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## KevinL (Sep 23, 2010)

ampdude said:


> Sounds like it's malfunctioning, the EO-9 should pull about 1.9A on new batteries.



Hmm, that's interesting. Mine is one of the earliest EO-9 units, so perhaps there have been some subtle changes? Either way 2A is safe to run on 17500. The Surefire P91 and MN16 draw that amount of current too. 

I note their website says CR123 compatible too, now.


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## KevinL (Sep 23, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> Already digging around for turboheads.. Crap.
> 
> 6P seems like a great platform in terms of the stuff you can slap on it!
> 
> ...



The 6P is tremendously flexible. We call this the C-series or P-series platform. You can exchange accessories from any of the C-series Surefires as well, that's the beauty of a completely modular platform. 

For the ultimate in Turboheads (in my opinion), try the awesome SRTH. 
http://www.lpstactical.com/hd3t.htm

The SRTH is a rare (comparatively) turbohead with a 2.5" bezel, very lightweight aluminium design compared to KT1/KT2, smaller and more compact. Lexan window but has no problems withstanding a MN16 (225 lumen) going full blast - that's the way I run it. KT-series heads have regular Pyrex windows and are heavier and bulkier. 

You can buy with or without a D3 body and various options, see the webpage for details. They supply it with the N2 lamp (105lu), I personally upgraded it to the MN16 - I like light and lots of it. MN16's are widely available. 

The only downside is that the MN16 has an oval-ish hotspot instead of a 100% circle as it is not purpose-designed for the SRTH, but I've learned to live with it over the years 


Edit: sorry, outdated information. LPS now offers a MN15 or MN16 lamp option at the bottom of the webpage. I bought mine years ago, some things do change


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## ampdude (Sep 23, 2010)

KevinL said:


> Hmm, that's interesting. Mine is one of the earliest EO-9 units, so perhaps there have been some subtle changes? Either way 2A is safe to run on 17500. The Surefire P91 and MN16 draw that amount of current too.
> 
> I note their website says CR123 compatible too, now.



Yea, the IMR-9 should run fine on CR123A's also. As far as I remember the P91's and P61's I've always checked drew around 2.6A of current. I've had a couple difference EO-9's, so I don't think there was a design change, but we'd have to talk to Mark to be sure I guess. I just tried to draw the current on my IMR-9 and it ranged from starting out at 2.7 to ending at 2.19A after a few tries, I think my DMM is a failing right now too, that's weird.. Never had that problem before though.


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## Sailboat (Sep 23, 2010)

KevinL said:


> The 6P is tremendously flexible. We call this the C-series or P-series platform. You can exchange accessories from any of the C-series Surefires as well, that's the beauty of a completely modular platform.
> 
> For the ultimate in Turboheads (in my opinion), try the awesome SRTH.
> http://www.lpstactical.com/hd3t.htm
> ...



Bit out of the price range at this point, but I'll probably break down by the end of the week..

All this talk about LEDs has me curious..I would like to try them again, I don't think only my Quark and seeing various Fenix lights at work was a fair enough trial. I'm watching the marketplace, I'm hoping someone has a P60 style dropin LED they bought and never used that I can snag. I need a flashaholic next door neighbor who has parts laying around so I can just borrow them and try them. 

Now, for the next thing to plunk down more money on... Rechargeable batteries for the 6P. I can get a line on 3 volt RCR123A batteries through my job, so those will be my batteries of choice..

And I can use the really high quality charger at work, set inside a fiberglass case coated in fire retardant with it's own smoke detector circuit breaker! :nana:


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## RobertM (Sep 23, 2010)

KevinL said:


> Hmm, that's interesting. Mine is one of the earliest EO-9 units, so perhaps there have been some subtle changes? Either way 2A is safe to run on 17500. The Surefire P91 and MN16 draw that amount of current too.
> 
> I note their website says CR123 compatible too, now.



The P91 draws 2.4-2.5A on 3xCR123 primary cells. On li-ion cells, it can draw up to 2.7A (voltage doesn't sag as much as CR123 cells)--WAY too much for 17500 cells.


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## RobertM (Sep 23, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> Bit out of the price range at this point, but I'll probably break down by the end of the week..
> 
> All this talk about LEDs has me curious..I would like to try them again, I don't think only my Quark and seeing various Fenix lights at work was a fair enough trial. I'm watching the marketplace, I'm hoping someone has a P60 style dropin LED they bought and never used that I can snag. I need a flashaholic next door neighbor who has parts laying around so I can just borrow them and try them.
> 
> ...



I'm sure you are probably aware of this, but don't use any of the SF "6v" (i.e. P60) bulbs with your "3v" rechargeable cells. The "6V" lamps actually run around 5v due to CR123 voltage sag. A bulb such as the SF P90 would be safe to run on 2x 3.7v li-ion rechargeable because they normally run around 7.5v on 3xCR123 primary cells.

See this thread for learning how to put together safe incandescent combos:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536

On the topic of LEDs, there are a few emitters out there that are specifically high-CRI LEDs. They still aren't as warm as incans, but they do render colors quite well. I have always preferred incans over LEDs, own quite a few of both, but I must say, I am REALLY impressed with my fairly recent purchase of my HDS EDC High CRI flashlight. If I get some time, I can try taking some comparison pics for you showing a "normal" LED, a high-CRI LED, and an incandescent.

BTW, :welcome:

-Robert


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## Sailboat (Sep 23, 2010)

RobertM said:


> I'm sure you are probably aware of this, but don't use any of the SF "6v" (i.e. P60) bulbs with your "3v" rechargeable cells. The "6V" lamps actually run around 5v due to CR123 voltage sag. A bulb such as the SP P90 would be safe to run on 3x 3.7v li-ion rechargeable because they normally run around 7.5v on 3xCR123 primary cells.
> 
> See this thread for learning how to put together safe incandescent combos:
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536
> ...



I assumed with sag I would be okay with the P60 lamp, but I guess not! Oops!

Most of the RCR123As at work are like 3.2 volts, not the 3 volts they say on the cases. Hmm..Or do they say 3.7 and put out 3.2? I can't remember. Our batteries go into regulated equipment so, within reason, we don't really care how many volts they put out..

Running the two 3.7 volt cells on a P90 makes a lot more sense, thank you so much!


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## RobertM (Sep 24, 2010)

Sailboat,

As promised, I've taken some comparison pictures showing the differences between an incandescent, a normal "cool" LED, and a high-CRI LED. I posted them in the HDS EDC thread. You can view them here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3538133&postcount=363

-Robert


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## Sailboat (Sep 25, 2010)

The high CRI indeed bested the incan.. Interesting!


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## Brigadier (Sep 25, 2010)

Sailboat said:


> The high CRI indeed bested the incan.. Interesting!


 
Um, well, depending on the white balance setting of the camera......


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## Sailboat (Sep 25, 2010)

Brigadier said:


> Um, well, depending on the white balance setting of the camera......



I was assuming the experiment was executed well enough to control that variable, that is leaving the WB set the same for all the pictures..

It wasn't terribly scientific a test either way, but it did demonstrate at least good CRI performance out of an LED.

The proper way to do this test is to compare the graphs from the RAW file of the originals to the RAW files from the different bulbs..

I hope they were taken in RAW!


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## flashfiend (Sep 26, 2010)

The high CRI LED indeed does a good job of rendering color in the sample photos but I'm not sure if the amber color of the P60 is a good comparison. Can I see that comparison using a hotwire such as the WA1185 bulb.


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## KiwiMark (Sep 26, 2010)

flashfiend said:


> The high CRI LED indeed does a good job of rendering color in the sample photos but I'm not sure if the amber color of the P60 is a good comparison. Can I see that comparison using a hotwire such as the WA1185 bulb.



How much light do you get out of a high CRI LED? I would also like to see a comparison with a good hotwire, but I suspect that my hotwires not only have 100 CRI but also put out a LOT more light than the high CRI LEDs do. I have at least 5 incans that would put out over 1000 Lumen (at least 2 that would be >5000).

However I can see that for the lights you want to be smaller and more efficient like for EDC - high CRI LEDs are a good option.


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## flashfiend (Sep 26, 2010)

It appears I may be getting 400-700 lumens otf of a nailbender sst-90 CRI 83. However, I don't have an IS to confirm. The tint is similar to what I can get out of my incans.


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## ampdude (Sep 26, 2010)

flashfiend said:


> The high CRI LED indeed does a good job of rendering color in the sample photos but I'm not sure if the amber color of the P60 is a good comparison. Can I see that comparison using a hotwire such as the WA1185 bulb.



Yes, the high CRI led's are very color neutral as evidenced by those excellent pictures but their 3D/outdoor performance is still lacking.


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## RobertM (Sep 26, 2010)

Brigadier said:


> Um, well, depending on the white balance setting of the camera......



Can you be more specific in where you feel my methodology is incorrect? As stated in my post, all were shot with WB set to Daylight (5100k).



Sailboat said:


> I was assuming the experiment was executed well enough to control that variable, that is leaving the WB set the same for all the pictures..
> 
> It wasn't terribly scientific a test either way, but it did demonstrate at least good CRI performance out of an LED.
> 
> ...



All shots were RAW with the WB constant at 5100k. CPF member Bass commented that he would like to be able to compare CRI only, without the differing color temperatures. I posted a second set with all WB neutralized. In the second comparison, you can see that incandescent does barely edge out the high CRI LED (especially in red reproduction), but not by a whole lot. Second set of photos: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3538795#post3538795



KiwiMark said:


> How much light do you get out of a high CRI LED? I would also like to see a comparison with a good hotwire, but I suspect that my hotwires not only have 100 CRI but also put out a LOT more light than the high CRI LEDs do. I have at least 5 incans that would put out over 1000 Lumen (at least 2 that would be >5000).
> 
> However I can see that for the lights you want to be smaller and more efficient like for EDC - high CRI LEDs are a good option.



I think the upper limit for a true high CRI LED (90+ CRI) is about 100-150 lumens at the moment. So if you need/want a lot more light along with high color rendering, obviously an incandescent will be the way to go.


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## flashfiend (Sep 26, 2010)

Just posted some photos here. 

I still don't have a 'real' High CRI LED yet but hope to have a Nichia based NeoFab light in the near future for further comparison. For now I still love my hotwire incans but I would also love to find a High CRI LED with near hotwire lumens.


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