# First real knife



## Prat (Sep 12, 2009)

Help me pick an EDC knife! 
I haven't had a knife since I was a kid and had Swiss Army ones and I'm looking for a folding, locking, and combo blade (serrated and smooth) knife for EDC. I'd like to spend less than $50 (retail price can be more as we all know that we can get items for much less than that price much of the time).

I saw the Gerber Firestorm recommended on this forum, and have found it here at a great price:

http://www.smkw.com/webapp/eCommerc...ext=firestorm&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0&SKU=G7174

Is this a good knife and trustworthy store? Any other recommendations?

I've been looking at the Spyderco Bryd series too, but they don't seem to have many combo blades, or they are too much one or the other (the Firestorm is about the right length of both), although the Meadowlark is interesting. 

Oh, and I have no idea what the different blade steel compositions or strengths mean or which is better, nor what the different handle materials are or what is better.  It isn't really a factor in my price range I guess. :shrug:

TIA!


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## jzmtl (Sep 12, 2009)

Does this combo edge look right? http://newgraham.com/store/product/4567/Tenacious-PS-SC122GPS/

Start here on knife steels. http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml


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## Prat (Sep 12, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> Does this combo edge look right? http://newgraham.com/store/product/4567/Tenacious-PS-SC122GPS/
> 
> Start here on knife steels. http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml




Yea, that looks like what I'm looking for, about half straight and half serrated. 
Thanks for the link, I need to read up on blade materials. 
This guy looks interesting...

http://www.knifeworks.com/crktlakethunderbolt2aluminumhandlecomboedge.aspx

Btw, I should mention that looks are important to me, if I don't like how a knife looks then I'm probably not going to go for it. For instance, that knife linked above looks good quality wise, but it doesn't "do it for me" lookwise. Stupid I know, but I need cool and sexy!  I like drop point, tanto, and black or gray colored blades the best.


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## mossyoak (Sep 12, 2009)

the tenacious is just about the best bang for the buck, and that crkt thunderbolt is a POS.


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## Prat (Sep 12, 2009)

Is it really? Are CRKT knives of low quality? Because I like the way the Pharaoh and Scarab look too.

I should also mention that I will probably never even use this knife. I just want one for ECD or "just because", a kind of peace of mind in the pocket (along with my mace). So I don't care if it can cut through metal or not, or will not dull after 100 years of constant cutting through phone books and cord wood, just be sturdy and comfortable in hand and look cool. 

It is possible that I will buy one knife for looks/edc and another of better quality for more utilitarian/pragmatic uses though (what I could use a knife for in everyday life though I don't know).


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## mossyoak (Sep 12, 2009)

crkt knives are very low quality. they build knives to look cool, they arent to concerned with useability.


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## PG5768 (Sep 12, 2009)

The companies that are considered the top production knife makers are (in no particular order): Spyderco, Kershaw, Benchmade, and Buck. SOG, Gerber, CRKT, and others produce knives that usually aren't considered to be on the same level, for a variety of reasons.

I've had good luck buying knives from (again, in no particular order):

http://www.2brothersknife.com/

http://www.knifeworks.com/

http://newgraham.com/store/

http://www.knifecenter.com/


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## Prat (Sep 12, 2009)

mossyoak said:


> crkt knives are very low quality. they build knives to look cool, they arent to concerned with useability.



Ok, duly noted. But they do look cool! 



PG5768 said:


> The companies that are considered the top production knife makers are (in no particular order): Spyderco, Kershaw, Benchmade, and Buck. SOG, Gerber, CRKT, and others produce knives that usually aren't considered to be on the same level, for a variety of reasons.
> 
> I've had good luck buying knives from (again, in no particular order):
> 
> ...



And now you put CRKT in the "quality" list.  I don't know what to think!

Thanks for the list of sites to buy from, I'll check them out. :thumbsup:

Again, I'm more concerned with looks than quality as I won't be using this knife often, if at all. But I of course don't want to buy flimsy crap either and would like to have looks and quality. But, as I said, maybe I'll buy one for each criteria. :shrug:


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## PG5768 (Sep 12, 2009)

Prat said:


> Ok, duly noted. But they do look cool!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry if I wasn't clear, should have spelled it out a little better. SOG, Gerber, CRKT are all considered lesser quality brands and generally not as good as the Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, and Buck knives.


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## PG5768 (Sep 12, 2009)

Don't know if this will help, but here is a way to look at all the knives below $50 from what ever maker you want at Amazon. I just looked at those sold directly by Amazon. Here's an example with Kershaw:

http://www.amazon.com/s/sr=41-8/qid=1252784809/ref=sr_av_p_6_7?ie=UTF8&rs=3375251&keywords=kershaw%20knives&bbn=3375251&rh=n%3A3375251%2Cn%3A!3375301%2Ck%3Akershaw%20knives%2Cp_4%3AKershaw%2Cp_36%3A-5099%2Cp_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER&page=1

Benchmade:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_p_6_0?rh=n%3A3375251%2Cn%3A!3375301%2Ck%3Abenchmade+knives%2Cp_4%3ABenchmade%2Cp_36%3A-5099%2Cp_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER&bbn=3375251&keywords=benchmade+knives&ie=UTF8&qid=1252785274&rnid=331592011

Spyderco:

http://www.amazon.com/s/sr=41-7/qid=1252785403/ref=sr_av_p_6_6?ie=UTF8&rs=3375251&keywords=Spyderco%20knives&bbn=3375251&rh=n%3A3375251%2Cn%3A!3375301%2Ck%3ASpyderco%20knives%2Cp_4%3ASpyderco%2Cp_36%3A-5099%2Cp_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER&page=1

Buck:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_p_6_0?rh=n%3A3375251%2Cn%3A!3375301%2Ck%3Abuck+knives+folding%2Cp_4%3ABuck+Knives%2Cp_36%3A-5099%2Cp_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER&bbn=3375251&keywords=buck+knives+folding&ie=UTF8&qid=1252785473&rnid=331592011

None of the regular on-line knife stores have this sort of capability, so it makes it nice to look and see which knives you like the looks of in pictures first before visiting their sites.


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## Prat (Sep 12, 2009)

PG5768 said:


> Sorry if I wasn't clear, should have spelled it out a little better. SOG, Gerber, CRKT are all lesser quality and generally not as good as the Benchmade, Spyderco, Kershaw, and Buck knives.



Opps! No, you were clear, it's just that I've had a fever off and on over 100 degrees since Thurs. and that with the crap sleep I've gotten has fried my brain! 

So, although those brands are lesser quality, they aren't crap right? I might as well order something like the Thunderbolt for $23 whole dollars (+ shipping); what have I got to lose? (Well, about $25 dollars! But I doubt it'd break just being carried in my pocket and looking cool...).



PG5768 said:


> Don't know if this will help, but here is a way to look at all the knives below $50 from what ever maker you want at Amazon. Here's an example with Kershaw:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/sr=41-8/qid=1252784809/ref=sr_av_p_6_7?ie=UTF8&rs=3375251&keywords=kershaw%20knives&bbn=3375251&rh=n%3A3375251%2Cn%3A!3375301%2Ck%3Akershaw%20knives%2Cp_4%3AKershaw%2Cp_36%3A-5099%2Cp_6%3AATVPDKIKX0DER&page=1



Thanks, I've been doing the same thing on a few knife sites. There's so many to consider! :thinking:


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## PG5768 (Sep 12, 2009)

Prat said:


> Opps! No, you were clear, it's just that I've had a fever off and on over 100 degrees since Thurs. and that with the crap sleep I've gotten has fried my brain!
> 
> So, although those brands are lesser quality, they aren't crap right? I might as well order something like the Thunderbolt for $23 whole dollars (+ shipping); what have I got to lose? (Well, about $25 dollars! But I doubt it'd break just being carried in my pocket and looking cool...).
> 
> ...



No, they aren't crap, just not as nice as the knives from the top makers. I've got recently made CRKT and SOG knives and they are okay. If you're like me, those are what got me started and then I moved on to the other brands. Good luck.


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## Prat (Sep 12, 2009)

PG5768 said:


> No, they aren't crap, just not as nice as the knives from the top makers. I've got recently made CRKT and SOG knives and they are okay. If you're like me, those are what got me started and then I moved on to the other brands. Good luck.



Yea, that makes sense. Mid-quality is fine with me! Just wondering, since mossy called the Thunderbolt a p.o.s. lol. 

Any other makers to look out for? Boker looks nice...


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## Ajax517 (Sep 12, 2009)

Prat said:


> I should also mention that I will probably never even use this knife. I just want one for ECD or "just because", a kind of peace of mind in the pocket (along with my mace). So I don't care if it can cut through metal or not, or will not dull after 100 years of constant cutting through phone books and cord wood, just be sturdy and comfortable in hand and look cool.



For an EDC blade, it's quality should be above reproach. This is the blade that you will call on in an emergency and you want it to be able to perform whatever task you may be confronted with. If you want a "pretty" blade then go buy some crazy looking dagger and put it on your mantle. 

Go with the Tenacious. It's cheap but it still looks sweet, is of above average quality steel and the G10 handle is highly durable. If you're willing to spend more, take a look at the Spyderco Delica or Endura.

I also disagree with the assessment of SOG as a low quality knife maker. Their steels are good and their fixed blades are legendary. Some may not like the Zytel handles in their folders but the reduction in weight makes them excellent for pocket carry. Also they have the best pocket clip in the game...hands down.


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## PG5768 (Sep 12, 2009)

Prat said:


> Yea, that makes sense. Mid-quality is fine with me! Just wondering, since mossy called the Thunderbolt a p.o.s. lol.
> 
> Any other makers to look out for? Boker looks nice...



You captured it with "mid-quality". They aren't "low quality". That would be more the cheap gas station knives and copy-cat of the brand name knives sold by Fury and others.

CRKT does have some very famous people collaborating on their designs. I bought a couple of their assisted opening framelocks, designed by Kommer, to give as gifts and wasn't terribly impressed by the overall product. They weren't bad, just so-so. Haven't seen or handled a Thunderbolt, so I can't comment.

Bought a SOG Flash II kept it over nite. Just felt "clunky". Returned it and bought a Kershaw S30V Blur for about $20 more. The Blur was more than $20 better, IMO. I do own a Twitch II and was initially impressed, since it was my first AO knife. It now sits in a drawer.

Don't have any experience with Boker, but they seem to be popular.

The best thing to do is pick a couple of each brand that you like the looks of and try to find a store where you can actually handle them.


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## Prat (Sep 13, 2009)

Ajax517 said:


> For an EDC blade, it's quality should be above reproach. This is the blade that you will call on in an emergency and you want it to be able to perform whatever task you may be confronted with. If you want a "pretty" blade then go buy some crazy looking dagger and put it on your mantle.
> 
> Go with the Tenacious. It's cheap but it still looks sweet, is of above average quality steel and the G10 handle is highly durable. If you're willing to spend more, take a look at the Spyderco Delica or Endura.



I agree; if I was trying to cut myself out of a seat belt twisted around me in some car accident, it would be quite a time for my "cool looking" but "so-so" quality knife to break!

But then...what's the likelihood?

That is a bad pic of the Tenacious above; I found this one and it's much more to my liking:

http://www.igun.com.ua/images/C122GPS_Tenacious_G-10.jpg 




PG5768 said:


> You captured it with "mid-quality". They aren't "low quality". That would be more the cheap gas station knives and copy-cat of the brand name knives sold by Fury and others.
> 
> The best thing to do is pick a couple of each brand that you like the looks of and try to find a store where you can actually handle them.



Yep, I'm all about mid-quality!  My first real flashlight is an EagleTac T20C2, my stereo is "budget hi-fi" or "mid-hi-fi" (i.e. it "only" cost about $2,000 with all the components put together), my car is an "economic" car, my house is modest but nice, and L.L. Bean/Land's End is about as much as I'm willing to pay for clothes. Sure I could buy much "nicer" things (like a $400 dollar knife), but I just don't feel the need for it. That's just how I am.

I'll have to see if I can find some of these knives so I can handle them in person, but I'm betting that's not going to be easy as many of them are ID (internet direct) only, no? 

I have to ask something about handles: I know that G10 and FRN are praised over metal (and metal can/will be slipperly of course), but why do they look so cheap and plasticy? I mean check out this Benchmade:

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=BM10452SBK

Great blade, great price, but that handle just looks so hokey, like a joke! The same with this Gerber:

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=GB1584

As well as the Gerber I linked in my original post (which no one seems to recommend here? I think it is selling for $60 - $90 around the web, the non Iraqi Freedom version anyway).

Do these look/feel better in person? I'm guessing so. But metal looks "sophisticated" and it's going to be solid.

Thanks for all the input so far everyone! :thumbsup:


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## cbxer55 (Sep 13, 2009)

My opinion is that if you are going to buy just one knife, make it count. Don't buy a second-rate knife like a CRKT. I've only had one CRKT, and it now resides in the Midwest City, Oklahoma, city dump, where it belongs. I will never ever purchase one again.

I am all for the looks thing myself, and it is the first thing that catches my eye on a knife. CRKT is all about looks, real short on performance. SOG and Gerber are mostly the same, and I will not purchase them either.

I just got a new knife yesterday, it is the middle knife in this photo of Cold Steel Espadas. Depending on who you talk to, there is a lot of hate for Cold Steel, due to its owners antics. If you can ignore those, most of the knives are fairly nice. This one is, IMHO, exceptional. And its looks are really eye-catching, gotta admit that.

We'll see how it goes, its the new edc for awhile.


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## derrickd803 (Sep 13, 2009)

cbxer55 said:


> *My opinion is that if you are going to buy just one knife, make it count. Don't buy a second-rate knife like a CRKT.* I've only had one CRKT, and it now resides in the Midwest City, Oklahoma, city dump, where it belongs. I will never ever purchase one again.



+1 Spend money on a good knife now, and you will save money in the long run by not having to buy a replacement for the mid level knife.


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## Prat (Sep 13, 2009)

Ugh! I know you guys are right, and just about every time I put a price limit on an item and then ask for advice in a forum from those much more knowledgeable about the item(s) I am seeking, I get talked into spending more! 

But I have yet to regret doing so. :thumbsup:

There's so many different knife makers it's hard to tell the low-mid-high quality makers apart! Price is a way of course, but there is always good budget buys and bad budget buys and just plain high priced rip offs. I guess we've covered the most popular/well regarded brands in here. (I'm looking at Benchmade and Spyderco for sure, and a few others as well). I'm going to take my time looking around for now (I research a lot before purchasing many things, just how I am), it's fun to look at all bad *** little these knives anyway!


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## daloosh (Sep 13, 2009)

If you're only buying one, get one quality knife. I think you'll find you'll use it more than you expect. 

For a mix of quality and price, my one knife for you would be a Spyderco Delica or Endura, or a Benchmade Griptilian or Mini-Grip. OK, maybe a Kershaw Leek.

Good hunting for your knife
daloosh


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## Prat (Sep 13, 2009)

cbxer55 said:


> My opinion is that if you are going to buy just one knife, make it count. Don't buy a second-rate knife like a CRKT. I've only had one CRKT, and it now resides in the Midwest City, Oklahoma, city dump, where it belongs. I will never ever purchase one again.
> 
> I am all for the looks thing myself, and it is the first thing that catches my eye on a knife. CRKT is all about looks, real short on performance. SOG and Gerber are mostly the same, and I will not purchase them either.
> 
> ...



Speaking of bad *** looking knives, nice one! I like this one too:

http://www.coldsteel.com/blacksable.html

Wayyy out of my price range, but nice. There's a few closer to my price range though, like this series:

http://www.coldsteel.com/voyagerseries.html


As I said, so many options to choose from!


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## Prat (Sep 13, 2009)

daloosh said:


> If you're only buying one, get one quality knife. I think you'll find you'll use it more than you expect.
> 
> For a mix of quality and price, my one knife for you would be a Spyderco Delica or Endura, or a Benchmade Griptilian or Mini-Grip. OK, maybe a Kershaw Leek.
> 
> ...




Those all seem like solid choices, I also like the Kershaw Chive, Storm, Scallion... 

Good hunting, lol, I love it!  Thanks!

Edit: I'm liking a lot of these Kershaws (like the Blur series); they have the looks I like and seemingly the quality too (right? please don't anyone say they are crap too lol). And at $40-$80 or so they're just the right price. :naughty:


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## AKWolf (Sep 13, 2009)

Those Cold Steel videos are sure fun to watch...


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## cbxer55 (Sep 13, 2009)

AKWolf said:


> Those Cold Steel videos are sure fun to watch...


 
That they are, I have one from the 90s.
Try it at your own risk!


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## carrot (Sep 14, 2009)

Chris Reeve... Expensive, but worth it. Top notch folders, well-designed and built to last. Their fixed blade lineup is nice but nothing special, especially when many custom makers offer fixed blades cheaper and not a bit inferior.

Spyderco is my favorite brand. They are always pushing the envelope on innovation and strive to bring customers new designs, steels, and great values. Their claim to fame is being "high performance, not high-end". In every Spyderco knife is hundreds of hours of R&D and testing... I've never felt like a Spyderco could be improved if they "just added this." Many of their products offer excellent value, are highly refined, and are solid workhorses.

Benchmade makes solid knives but I feel like a lot of them aren't fully thought out. Take the Skirmish for example... a fine knife but the thumb hole is so polished it is difficult to open with dry hands let alone wet fingers. Or the 530, one of my favorite Benchmades, but nearly impossible to open under adverse conditions. They have a few innovative designs (AXIS lock, Indraft) that warrant a close look but they are fairly conservative and besides their proprietary locking mechanisms, mostly not very innovative. In fact, the company seems to operate on a backwards logic that involves cheapening the product line instead of building it to be better. For instance, they no longer use M2 tool steel which is widely considered amongst knife fans to be the best steel Benchmade has ever used. On the other hand if you want a butterfly knife, Benchmade is THE big choice.

Kershaw is a lot like Spyderco, often trying to push the envelope on designs. Much of Kershaw's lineup is a bit more budget oriented and use cheaper materials so they can make more made-in-USA products and still be *very* affordable. The aforementioned knife brands are superior in build quality but can't match Kershaw's value -- however, Kershaw's quality is still better than "good enough." Don't get me wrong, Kershaw makes excellent knives at a very good quality... although most of their designs don't "click" with me. 

CRKT... a company willing to take a gamble and make super cheap production versions of custom knives... they are OK knives, a rare handful are quite good (S-2, for instance) but generally speaking not really worth it. A lot of nice designs, but the Auto-LAWKS system is a pain in the butt and on most of their models, and the lower quality is a real drawback.

Buck makes great knives, even their cheaper ones are pretty nice (check out the cheaper slipjoints they sell at Walmart -- sharpen up great and are well built) but there are very few standout models that warrant a closer look. The product line ranges from yawn-tastic (Buck Metro) to excellent deals (Buck Mayo TNT). IMHO a fairly conservative company that isn't much interested in innovation, but still makes a solid product. 

Cold Steel can be a hit or a miss. Some are great... others not so much. Not a fan of the company or its advertising but there are a few knives I do like by them, one of them being the Pocket Bushman (which is also too big for EDC). A lot of their knives feel a bit rough around the edges and not as good as they could be if someone handled a prototype before sending it to mass production. 

My take on the knife industry.


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## Prat (Sep 14, 2009)

carrot said:


> Chris Reeve... Expensive, but worth it. Top notch folders, well-designed and built to last. Their fixed blade lineup is nice but nothing special, especially when many custom makers offer fixed blades cheaper and not a bit inferior.
> 
> Spyderco is my favorite brand. They are always pushing the envelope on innovation and strive to bring customers new designs, steels, and great values. Their claim to fame is being "high performance, not high-end". In every Spyderco knife is hundreds of hours of R&D and testing... I've never felt like a Spyderco could be improved if they "just added this." Many of their products offer excellent value, are highly refined, and are solid workhorses.
> 
> ...




Thanks, and very good and informative summary of some major makers. Really nothing more to say than that! :twothumbs


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## eCustomKnife.com (Sep 16, 2009)

Have a look at Lone Wolf....
www.lonewolfknives.com


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## alpg88 (Sep 16, 2009)

have been knife enthusiast for a while, agree with what was said so far.
colds steel is makes great knifes, just not all of them. usually i don't even look at their knifes if they are below $50.
my favorite Scimitar, 5 or so years ago bought one with straight edge for $80, that knife went everywhere with me, until i came over my friends house, had to use the knife for something, left it on the couch, his pit chewed up handle beyond recognition. at least he didn't cut his mouth.
next one i bought was the same knife, but i had to pay $120 for it.
and their spetsnaz shovel.. i don't know how i went camping without it before, it is all in one tool, shovel, hatchet, i also use it to get hot coals from fire, into the grill. and it is a lot stronger than trifold, i broke 2 of those.


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## LED_astray (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm not really a knife guy and if any of the expert's advice resonates, go ahead and go for it. But....

I find I often am not asking myself the "right" questions when I am looking for something new and can benefit by gaining some experience. Applied to knifes, I think that would be picking a value (not cheap!) model a little towards average from what I thought I would want and living with it for a couple months. Once I had experience, asking (or just reading previous comments) based on what I'd learned would get me closer to my ideal solution. Why a "little towards" average? Because I expect to be wrong and want to broaden my experience before I make my "real" purchase. E.g. if I thought small, getting a medium-small model would teach me if I could live with a more versatile solution.)

As far as brands, I know Spyderco best. Byrd by Spyderco is a good example of what I mean by a value line. (Or the Tenacious, mentioned above, Spyderco's first mainline Chinese model. It's bigger than what I want, but it is well made. In fact, it's the first liner lock I've seen that didn't seem like complete crap. So being able to handle it, taught me I don't need to aggressively avoid those. Of course my interests are probably different than yours.)

Just an option to think about. I hope it helps.


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## nfetterly (Sep 16, 2009)

For lower price knives I buy Kershaw, Benchmade & CHris Reeve for more $$

Kershaw Scallion (which I do not have) here on the marketplace for $25 shipped. 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=200008

I bought most of my knives on Bladeforum - with the way flashlights are moving these days it is probably a buyers market for knives as well.


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## jzmtl (Sep 17, 2009)

Prat said:


> Help me pick an EDC knife!
> I'd like to spend less than $50 (retail price can be more as we all know that we can get items for much less than that price much of the time).
> 
> TIA!





carrot said:


> Chris Reeve... Expensive, but worth it. Top notch folders, well-designed and built to last. Their fixed blade lineup is nice but nothing special, especially when many custom makers offer fixed blades cheaper and not a bit inferior.





nfetterly said:


> For lower price knives I buy Kershaw, Benchmade & CHris Reeve for more $$




Ehh, last time I checked chris reeve is more like $500 not $50.

Asides from that I think suggesting it to first time buyer is ridiculous. It's very much a boutique product like a $500 pen, which may or may not work better than something 1/5 its price. If you like luxury products fine, but don't try to convince others it's worth it.


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## carrot (Sep 18, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> Ehh, last time I checked chris reeve is more like $500 not $50.
> 
> Asides from that I think suggesting it to first time buyer is ridiculous. It's very much a boutique product like a $500 pen, which may or may not work better than something 1/5 its price. If you like luxury products fine, but don't try to convince others it's worth it.


Huh? More like $300, not $500.
Also, I was just giving a general survey of my feelings about various brands. Not recommendations. No need to ride up my _ about it.

There was no harm done in anything I said so I don't see why you have to be so upset about it.


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## carrot (Sep 18, 2009)

[double post]


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## Prat (Sep 18, 2009)

alpg88 said:


> have been knife enthusiast for a while, agree with what was said so far.
> colds steel is makes great knifes, just not all of them. usually i don't even look at their knifes if they are below $50.
> my favorite Scimitar, 5 or so years ago bought one with straight edge for $80, that knife went everywhere with me, until i came over my friends house, had to use the knife for something, left it on the couch, his pit chewed up handle beyond recognition. at least he didn't cut his mouth.
> next one i bought was the same knife, but i had to pay $120 for it.
> and their spetsnaz shovel.. i don't know how i went camping without it before, it is all in one tool, shovel, hatchet, i also use it to get hot coals from fire, into the grill. and it is a lot stronger than trifold, i broke 2 of those.



Camping shovels rule! I use a $15 beater I got at a military supply store. I don't even try to saw wood with it, but I use it for everything else, especially digging up the fire pit before using and shifting around the coals after use and breaking up the half burned logs. Love how it folds up. 



LED_astray said:


> I'm not really a knife guy and if any of the expert's advice resonates, go ahead and go for it. But....
> 
> I find I often am not asking myself the "right" questions when I am looking for something new and can benefit by gaining some experience. Applied to knifes, I think that would be picking a value (not cheap!) model a little towards average from what I thought I would want and living with it for a couple months. Once I had experience, asking (or just reading previous comments) based on what I'd learned would get me closer to my ideal solution. Why a "little towards" average? Because I expect to be wrong and want to broaden my experience before I make my "real" purchase. E.g. if I thought small, getting a medium-small model would teach me if I could live with a more versatile solution.)
> 
> ...



I agree that you don't want to just jump into buying a somewhat technical item like a knife (or flashlight) when you don't know enough about them and haven't asked those that do. Everyone will have preferences, but there will be a general consensus (as there is here, like with brands) that will arise as well. It just helps to ask people who are familiar with what you are looking for about what to look for (in this case knives). Then you learn what is important a lot quicker than just researching blindly on your own.

I am looking at the Bryd line but I'm not too impressed, we'll see. 

Thanks for the help!



nfetterly said:


> For lower price knives I buy Kershaw, Benchmade & CHris Reeve for more $$
> 
> Kershaw Scallion (which I do not have) here on the marketplace for $25 shipped.
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=200008
> ...



Will have to check out Bladeforum, that's for buying used knives right?


----------



## Prat (Sep 18, 2009)

eCustomKnife.com said:


> Have a look at Lone Wolf....
> www.lonewolfknives.com



Yikes! Those are too pricey for me!



jzmtl said:


> Ehh, last time I checked chris reeve is more like $500 not $50.
> 
> Asides from that I think suggesting it to first time buyer is ridiculous. It's very much a boutique product like a $500 pen, which may or may not work better than something 1/5 its price. If you like luxury products fine, but don't try to convince others it's worth it.



Ok, I agree, in fact I'm the type of guy who thinks spending more than $100 on a knife or flashlight is excessive and won't, as of now, personally do so. 

But I saw in that post only a good summary of various knife makers and why they differed in price, not a suggestion to throw my money at a several hundred dollar item (I wouldn't anyway, I don't care how many suggestions I got for doing so).

Your specific suggestion was very good, very pragmatic, utilitarian, and economical. His was more of an overview of different makers I've been looking at or hearing about. Both helped, neither hurt, so I don't see a problem.



carrot said:


> Huh? More like $300, not $500.
> Also, I was just giving a general survey of my feelings about various brands. Not recommendations. No need to ride up my _ about it.
> 
> There was no harm done in anything I said so I don't see why you have to be so upset about it.



I agree, and I found it informative (as I said before) and thank you. No harm at all done indeed.


Anyway, I've been really sick for the past week (had the swine flu, yes really lol) so I haven't made as much progress on this knife hunt as I would of liked. So I'm afraid I'm still looking and it's going to take a bit. 

As of now I can say I'm interested in many in the Kershaw line because, as I said before, they look "cool" as well as are well built, and I like that they are a little of an "off beat" brand. I like to try to get what not everyone else has (like Spyderco's or Benchmades) when I can so that is appealing. The Onion Storm is looking nice; I like the metal and composite handle and what a bad looking blade!

We'll see...


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## jzmtl (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm not very familiar with kershaw, don't like them for several reasons. They love to use stainless handle and recurve blades, which is heavy, slippery, and hard to sharpen. Plus a lot of their knives have gigantic clips that scream LOOK AT ME. I had the storm 2 (bigger one) for a while, it's a pretty good knife for the money if you can get over the clip and weight. Also had the smaller storm for a day, the weight/size is decent but thumbstud is really small, not very easy to deploy.


Take a look at boker m-type: http://newgraham.com/store/product/4521/M-Type-PS-BOK561/

Or byrd cara cara which seems to have decent amount of serration, although I think I've read on combo edge byrd the plain portion is also chisel ground, which for me is not good. http://newgraham.com/store/product/1412/Byrd-Cara-Cara.-Black-Combo-BY03BKPS/



carrot said:


> Huh? More like $300, not $500.
> Also, I was just giving a general survey of my feelings about various brands. Not recommendations. No need to ride up my _ about it.
> 
> There was no harm done in anything I said so I don't see why you have to be so upset about it.



I wasn't upset about it, just every time somebody ask for a $50 knife there's always the person comes in telling him to get a sebenza, custom, or some other $200+ knife, gets annoying after a while. I mean you don't tell somebody looking for a cheap commuter car to get an audi, or somebody looking for a basic pen to buy a mont blanc, it's just unrealistic.


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## carrot (Sep 18, 2009)

I don't think not buying something popular amongst educated buyers just because it is popular is really a very good reason.


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## derrickd803 (Sep 18, 2009)

Look at Kershaw (Zing, RAM, Leek, etc.), they have a lot to choose from and are high quality for a very good price. Also the Benchmade Mini/Fullsize Griptilian, the Spyderco Delica 4 and Endura 4, and the Cold Steel Voyager (one of the few good folders from them) are a few good "first" quality EDC knives.


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## John_Galt (Sep 18, 2009)

Sorry, kind of off topic, and my first post in this particular section of the forum. 

About the posts on CRKT being low quality... I concur. They're reasonably better than a lot of chinese junk out there, but, yeah, definitely not as nice as my dad's *Gerber Air Ranger*. I don't know the model, but it's a nice, solid feeling knife. Well balanced, comfortable heft, holds an edge better than any knife he's ever had, and the thumb stud... The best placement I've seen. Easy to open, even with gloves, but not sticking so far out as to catch on anything.

My CRKT M16-10KZ is garbage. Oh sure, it holds an edge decent enough. But it doesn't feel right. And I hate the thumb-stud, finger flick open holder thing. The only way to open it one handed is to flick it open, like a switch blade. And the clip always seems to stick out of my pocket too far, and catch at my hands.
Anyway, the reason I have it, is because a couple of years ago at BS camp, I was whittling with a non-locking knife, and folded the blade over my index finger. So my parents decided the only knife I should be allowed to have is one with a million locks to undo to close it. Annoying to say the least. But I love my dads _*Gerber*_. It's great.

**EDIT** Just looked up the model. I apologize, it was not a Benchmade, it was a Gerber. The Air Ranger model. All other comments still apply.

Oh, my finger is fine. After surgery, 3 years later, I have ~97% flexibility, and I can tell whenever the outside temperature drops below zero. No matter if I'm wearing gloves, or indoors. Kind of weird, but I don't mind it.

But, yeah, I'm never buying another CRKT.


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## Prat (Sep 19, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> I'm not very familiar with kershaw, don't like them for several reasons. They love to use stainless handle and recurve blades, which is heavy, slippery, and hard to sharpen. Plus a lot of their knives have gigantic clips that scream LOOK AT ME. I had the storm 2 (bigger one) for a while, it's a pretty good knife for the money if you can get over the clip and weight. Also had the smaller storm for a day, the weight/size is decent but thumbstud is really small, not very easy to deploy.
> 
> 
> Take a look at boker m-type: http://newgraham.com/store/product/4521/M-Type-PS-BOK561/
> ...



Thanks again for the suggestions (I do have the Byrd Cara Cara and Meadowlark in my list) and input on Kershaw. 



carrot said:


> I don't think not buying something popular amongst educated buyers just because it is popular is really a very good reason.



I'm not sure what you mean, or took me to mean, but that's not really what I meant!  

Of course I want to listen to educated buyers, that's why I made this thread! 

However, it is often true that the most popular items are not the best and/or there are better lesser known (and cheaper) alternatives, and that levels of expertise vary.

Take Ipods: they make up 90% of the DAP/PMP market, yet are over priced and not as hi-fi as brands like Cowon. Ask an "expert" which DAP to get on many boards and they will say an Ipod. Ask me, someone into audio, and I will say Cowon or possibly Sansa...and anything BUT Ipod. It's the same with BOSE (Buy Something Else) for speakers or maglights for flashlights. These ubiquitious brands that even stand for generic represtentatives of a product/technology are NOT the best choice for the consumer by any measure (no offense to those who have them). And the only reason I found out they aren't is by questioning the received wisdom and looking for other "fringe" alternatives. 

So I take the advice, info, and suggestions of more educated buyers than I and use it as a baseline to see what everyone else thinks are good product choices, and then I tend to look for the borderline suggestions made by the same crowd. Thus, with knives, instead of the regular brands like Spyderco and Benchmade, I have found Kershaw as well. And to me they seem just as good as these two giants that everyone will recommend, if not better (at least perhaps in aspects that matter to me). 



derrickd803 said:


> Look at Kershaw (Zing, RAM, Leek, etc.), they have a lot to choose from and are high quality for a very good price. Also the Benchmade Mini/Fullsize Griptilian, the Spyderco Delica 4 and Endura 4, and the Cold Steel Voyager (one of the few good folders from them) are a few good "first" quality EDC knives.



Ok, I'm going to get killed, but what is so great about these Spyderco Delica and Endura knives that everyone recommends? To me they look good, but nothing special, nothing more than "safe choices". They are of good quality and have been reliable through the years, sure, but just seem to be over-worshipped and over-recommended, like they are recommended just because they are recommended and alternatives to them have been discarded (even a priori) since there is no reason to even look at them---these are knives are "the best", the end.

Yes I looked at their history and technology but I'm still not impressed. They seem to be solid "B" knives that get "A+" recommendations over and over if for no other reason than received wisdom.

And yes I admit I can be entirely wrong here (of course! I am a knife newbie!), so no need to get nasty and put the poor ignorant new guy in his place. I'm just wondering, questioning the status quo and sacred cow, which often leads me to find better options as what is revered tends to often not be revered for much more of a reason than that it is just revered, that's why.  




John_Galt said:


> Sorry, kind of off topic, and my first post in this particular section of the forum.
> 
> About the posts on CRKT being low quality... I concur. They're reasonably better than a lot of chinese junk out there, but, yeah, definitely not as nice as my dad's benchmade. I don't know the model, but it's a nice, solid feeling knife. Well balanced, comfortable heft, holds an edge better than any knife he's ever had, and the thumb stud... The best placement I've seen. Easy to open, even with gloves, but not sticking so far out as to catch on anything.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that info. I'm steering clear of them now, although I still like the looks of the Thunderbolt and Pharoah. 

Glad your finger is ok; I practically cut the tip of my pinky finger off at work one time (not with a knife) and lost feeling in the tip. It doesn't tell me the weather though, lol.


Btw, to all, I'm still in my "what do they look like" stage in the research process (it comes right after I narrow my search by price range). I am going through all sorts of knives based on looks and discarding the ones that don't appeal to me. THEN I will start to look at their features and quality and that's when the looks of a knife start to not be as important. 

For instance, although I love the way the CRKT knives I mentioned above look, it seems they are pretty much out of consideration due to quality concerns. So now I'm looking at other knives that I like the looks of, which may in turn be thrown out due to quality/feature concerns (like the Kershaw Storm that looks to be a cool looking but bulky knife without features like SpeedSafe). But that's how I'm working, ruling out knives on price, then looks, then quality and features last. But that doesn't mean that these criteria are in this order of imporance; if they were then I'd would of just gotten the cheap and cool looking (to me) CRKT Thunderbolt. But I'm not (unless just for the hell of it as a second or third knife...which, btw, I might end up getting--multiple knives that is--as I experiment as time goes by and sell other knives back as you can't really know how a knife will feel or handle until you've had it for a few days). 

So stay tuned...


----------



## springnr (Sep 19, 2009)

However, it is often true that the most popular items are not the best and/or there are better lesser known (and cheaper) alternatives, and that levels of expertise vary.
____________________________
I was not going to reply to this thread as my recommendation is not flashy, nor serrated, and is boring except for the blade metal. It is quite functional, and does offer a lot of quality for the $$. Heck of a first knife.

Fallkniven U2


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## carrot (Sep 19, 2009)

The Endura and Delica get so many recommendations for many reasons. They are inexpensive, lightweight, and well designed. What is not readily apparent from the online descriptions and photos is just how well they fill the hand, how comfortably they carry, and how well they work in day to day usage. They are solid, reliable and have very, very good steel, especially for the price. Benchmade's best at that price is the 556 Min Grip with 154CM, which is a good steel but not as good as VG-10, and Kershaw's best at that price is actually $6 more (based on Knifecenter.com's prices) is the Composite Leek and is D2, which is a very good steel but with some drawbacks (D2 is harder than VG-10 so holds an edge longer, but cannot get quite as sharp and is far less rust resistant -- D2 is in fact not considered stainless).

Spydercos may not be the prettiest knives around but I find they are a very, very suitable alternative to my Sebenza, which I consider "the best knife ever" for many reasons.

Some important things to consider for a knife for me are: (roughly in order of importance)
1 -- Does it carry well?
2 -- Is the lockup good and solid?
3 -- Does it feel nice to hold? 
4 -- Is it easy to open one-handed, even under adverse conditions?
5 -- Does it cut well on a variety of materials?
6 -- Is the blade versatile, or (not too specialized)?
7 -- Are potential sharp edges rounded or chamfered where there shouldn't be any?
8 -- If it has a stainless steel, does it resist rust well?
9 -- Is it comfortable to use for long periods of time, for tasks such as peeling fruit & veggies, whittling, or breaking down boxes?
10 -- Does it look good? (You won't carry it if you can't stand the way it looks)
11 -- Is it unlikely to get me arrested for "illegal knife" possession?

Generally, IMHO
Spyderco does well on all of these, except maybe 10. They are especially good at 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9
Kershaw also meets most of these, but has some problems on 1, 8 (stupid bead blasting makes rust more likely), and maybe 10. In NYC, most completely fail 11 due to SpeedSafe, which is often viewed as being akin to automatic knives. They are excellent at 3, 4, 5, 6, 9
Benchmade also does pretty well, but I find some models fail at 3 and 4. They ace 2, 6, 7 and 10.

6 is very model-dependent. Best is to just find out for yourself.

For what it's worth I have owned 6 Kershaws (two of which I absolutely love -- Zing and Shallot) and handled quite a few more, 4 Benchmades (and handled dozens more... none of which I felt compelled to buy), and 
at least 48 Spydercos (and handled the entire 2009 lineup including the just-released Sage II and Chokwe), as well as owning a few custom folders and fixed blades and also handling many more.


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## carrot (Sep 19, 2009)

Also, yes, I do agree that Cowon is a leader in PMP/DAP. But you just said yourself, when you ask enthusiasts, many will suggest Cowon. You are asking enthusiasts here, and you see what we here are suggesting.


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## ZMZ67 (Sep 19, 2009)

carrot said:


> The Endura and Delica get so many recommendations for many reasons. They are inexpensive, lightweight, and well designed. What is not readily apparent from the online descriptions and photos is just how well they fill the hand, how comfortably they carry, and how well they work in day to day usage. They are solid, reliable and have very, very good steel, especially for the price. Benchmade's best at that price is the 556 Min Grip with 154CM, which is a good steel but not as good as VG-10, and Kershaw's best at that price is actually $6 more (based on Knifecenter.com's prices) is the Composite Leek and is D2, which is a very good steel but with some drawbacks (D2 is harder than VG-10 so holds an edge longer, but cannot get quite as sharp and is far less rust resistant -- D2 is in fact not considered stainless).
> 
> Spydercos may not be the prettiest knives around but I find they are a very, very suitable alternative to my Sebenza, which I consider "the best knife ever" for many reasons.
> 
> ...


 
Very worthwhile post :thumbsup:Illustrates your preferences/choices well but also provides a good method of choice for anyone looking to buy a folder.I have a feeling your post is going to cost me $$ though :laughing:


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## Prat (Sep 20, 2009)

springnr said:


> I was not going to reply to this thread as my recommendation is not flashy, nor serrated, and is boring except for the blade metal. It is quite functional, and does offer a lot of quality for the $$. Heck of a first knife.
> 
> Fallkniven U2



Well I thank you anyway, even though I must admit your recommendation is not what I'm looking for.

BUT, yes, that does seem to be a nice knife. It's just not what I'm interested in is all. I gots to have my serrated edge for one thing.



carrot said:


> The Endura and Delica get so many recommendations for many reasons. They are inexpensive, lightweight, and well designed. What is not readily apparent from the online descriptions and photos is just how well they fill the hand, how comfortably they carry, and how well they work in day to day usage. They are solid, reliable and have very, very good steel, especially for the price. Benchmade's best at that price is the 556 Min Grip with 154CM, which is a good steel but not as good as VG-10, and Kershaw's best at that price is actually $6 more (based on Knifecenter.com's prices) is the Composite Leek and is D2, which is a very good steel but with some drawbacks (D2 is harder than VG-10 so holds an edge longer, but cannot get quite as sharp and is far less rust resistant -- D2 is in fact not considered stainless).
> 
> Spydercos may not be the prettiest knives around but I find they are a very, very suitable alternative to my Sebenza, which I consider "the best knife ever" for many reasons.
> 
> ...



I got you, thanks for the education!  It is as I suspected though, and I actually agreed with/did not dispute all of that before (what I knew at least). I still think those two Spyderco knives are over-hyped, but no, I have not handled/used them (although I read reviews of how they cut and such, one at a very through site you and others probably know of...forgot the name) so I can not thus judge as definitively as others who have of course.

Your scale is quite comprehensive, but many factors on there I am unconcerned with, namely 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 11. Again, this will be just for carrying around (for a bit of peace of mind, I don't like not having the security of having a knife for protection if needed in my pocket, although I'm going to use my mace first anyway) and holding/looking at (I like how knives look!), not really for using. I'd use it in an emergency, otherwise it's just sitting in my pocket. Or around the house, just a "nice to have if needed" type of item that right now I feel a little naked without lol (although I have my baseball bat, axe, hatchet, machete, mace, kitchen knives...etc.). 

Perhaps I will (as said) buy one knife more for looks/edc and another for a more "beater" type as it would be nice to have a knife for camping/around the house. But most of the time I'm not camping (unfortunately! lol) and around the house I use dull beater scissors for cutting just about anything lol. 



carrot said:


> Also, yes, I do agree that Cowon is a leader in PMP/DAP. But you just said yourself, when you ask enthusiasts, many will suggest Cowon. You are asking enthusiasts here, and you see what we here are suggesting.



Good point. Mine was that some "experts" really aren't (or they are fanbois of some brand/product and dismiss other contenders) so their recommendations aren't the best, but yes I can tell the ones here know what they are talking about! :thumbsup:

Does anyone like the Byrd Meadowlark?


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## Prat (Sep 20, 2009)

Just registered on Bladeforums, same user name. Need to do more research so I'm going to read around there.

Sure I could just pick and buy a good knife or two right now from the suggestions made and my own choices, but that's not how I work. Any purchase over about $20 I make I look at several options, and if it's a technical item (like a knife), I research it. 

Just this weekend I looked at about 5 different options for some casual twill pants. I know my size and what color I want, but instead of just ordering the L.L. Bean Camden ones I saw online, I got some Arizona brand ones on sale. Saved $15 and like the looks better (and having had several Arizona brand jeans I know they hold up as well or better than other jean brands I've had like L.L. Bean and Levi's). It's not a big purchase item, but why not shop around? I got the superior product (to me at least) for less money that way.

So don't be surprised if it takes me a few weeks before I decide on a knife (or two or three)! There is much to learn! :thinking:


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## carrot (Sep 20, 2009)

Byrd meadowlark is nice, but feels somewhat "unfinished" compared to the Delica. Even still a great knife with solid lockup, and the steel holds up decently.


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## JeffInChi (Sep 20, 2009)

So Prat have you bought a knife yet, and if so, what kind?


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## Prat (Sep 20, 2009)

carrot said:


> Byrd meadowlark is nice, but feels somewhat "unfinished" compared to the Delica. Even still a great knife with solid lockup, and the steel holds up decently.



Ok...



JeffInChi said:


> So Prat have you bought a knife yet, and if so, what kind?



Lol, are you kidding? See above...


I'm finding on BF that I'm not the only one not so impressed with Spyderco's, especially their odd and boring looks. They, Benchmade and Kershaw seem to be the overall high rated ones there though (at least what I'm looking for). 

However, I've seen both BM and Spyderco called "good" or "solid" (and even just Spyderco called just "ok"), but twice Kershaw called "great" (in the same thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677028). And Kershaw is compared to Spyderco and BM when they are well regarded by the same user. Seems Kershaw might be the lesser well known (but still well known) maker that is just as good or better than these two makers who are ALWAYS recommended.


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## Ny0ng1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I used to be exactly like you, aiming for somewhat mid level quality with the best price/performance ratio and suit my needs the best.

But i've changed slightly now, still interested to read and fondle those mid-but-above-average quality, but for personal purchase, i usually go straight to the high end.

Why? because I know my personality, I wont be satisfied and keep comparing my item with the best there is out there . Always thinking I now appreciate the price factor of the more expensive product, trying to save more $$ to buy the better quality product than I have, and in the end, spend more $$ overall 

So now... if i want to buy something new, if I can afford the high end, I'll go for it, of course with some research knowing that all the enthusiast recommend it if you can afford it.

So back to the topic, i have a Small Sebenza Classic on my way now. By the way, its my first knife purchased by me, ever. . Cant wait for it to come.

Before buying it, I was looking for Spydercos and Kershaw, didn't really like benchmades and its model actually. After some readings, I lean more to Spidercos, thinning down the choices to Paramilitary, Delica ZDP, Manix, Pacific Salt, and Caly3.

Cheers
Eric


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## springnr (Sep 20, 2009)

Well I thank you anyway, even though I must admit your recommendation is not what I'm looking for.

BUT, yes, that does seem to be a nice knife. It's just not what I'm interested in is all. I gots to have my serrated edge for one thing.
_______________________________________
< I knew that when posting. The U2 really falls more into the category of a 14th 18th 21st .... choice versus a first selection for most users.


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## Prat (Sep 21, 2009)

Ny0ng1 said:


> I used to be exactly like you, aiming for somewhat mid level quality with the best price/performance ratio and suit my needs the best.
> 
> But i've changed slightly now, still interested to read and fondle those mid-but-above-average quality, but for personal purchase, i usually go straight to the high end.
> 
> ...




I know what you're saying, but I know myself too and I'm really am a guy who's satisfied with mid-level; in fact I find many mid level products to be more than enough and much of the time budget/economic is just fine with me!

So while I don't buy junk (because that is a waste of money in the long run), I won't go high end either. I go right to the mid line and stay there, satisfied for years.

For instance, as I mentioned above, I'm into audio gear, "hi-fi" stuff. But I am more than happy with my "mere" $2,000 dollar stereo system and have been for years. Sure I could buy a $20,000 system (or $200,000 system if I really wanted to), but I never will. Mine sounds 90% as good as one of that cost (or more, and yes I've heard several very expensive ones) and I think it's ridiculous to spend that kind of money on anything other than a house (including a car; I've never spent more than a $15,000 on a car and never will).

This is just how I am, I save my money and I just don't see the need for having better material things than I do have, as they are more often than not more than enough to satisfy any reasonable person. And when I do feel like upgrading or simply getting something I have never have (like a "real" knife or flashlight), I go to the mid level and stay there.

So $50 - $80 for a knife or flashlight is more than enough for me (and really, I can't justify even that much: I don't need to spend that amount on either, or strictly even need either!). I'm now looking at only Kershaw and Benchmade (too many models to list), Spyderco is out. I realized that I've never liked how they look; with their weird triangle shaped blades they look made more for cutting cheese than anything else! I know they are good knives, but they just don't appeal to me.

So I'm narrowing it down!


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## jzmtl (Sep 23, 2009)

You know you want one. 








Kidding aside when I saw spyderco for the first time I thought they are ugly as sin, now most of my knives are spyderco (well 2nd if you count swiss army knives). You'll understand once you have one, perfect ergonomics and pure functionality.


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## Prat (Sep 23, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> You know you want one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lol, yea, they're aren't ugly, I just think they aren't as cool looking as some other knives of the same general quality, so, in the interest of narrowing down my list, I kind of arbitrarily scratched them off it. 

Speaking of a list, here's what I'm working with now (in no real order):


Kershaw:

blur

storm/stromII

blackout

ram

cyclone

whirlwind

avalanche

eneg2

lahar

scallion

zing


Benchmade:

vex

barrage

grip

pika

snipe

ambush


H/K Benchmade:

14650

ascender

tactical folder


Gerber - firestorm, torchII


And of course many of those have many different versions, like the blur and grip.

Getting there...much further along and more knowledgeable than when I liked the CRKT Thunderbolt! (I still think it looks cool and is of decent quality, but nah...)


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## jzmtl (Sep 23, 2009)

I have two assisted openers from kershaw but I ended up not using them, because of the reaction they get from people. Think about this before you do. 

I played with energ in store, the flipper is very neat and works well (no wrist flick needed). It's a separate piece from blade and hides in handle when blade is out. From your choices, they are all good, just pick one that looks good to you.


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## carrot (Sep 23, 2009)

I'll tell you right off to forget the Blackout. Handles feel way too light and plasticky. No opinion on most of the others, but the Grip is a nice knife besides feeling a bit hollow (hollowed out handles) and the Vex is supposedly not always nicely finished. Seems Benchmade has been having a QA issue lately? More people are complaining about Benchmades coming dull out of the box than any other manufacturer right now? I don't remember where I read it, probably on Bladeforums.

Also, forget the Pika... get the real thing instead, the Spyderco Delica and Endura


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## carrot (Sep 23, 2009)

jztml I am drooling at your picture of the Stretch FRN. I loooooove mine!


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## jzmtl (Sep 24, 2009)

carrot said:


> jztml I am drooling at your picture of the Stretch FRN. I loooooove mine!



Thanks! I love it too, very comfortable handle and extremely sharp blade!


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## luckybucket (Oct 6, 2009)

carrot said:


> Chris Reeve... Their fixed blade lineup is nice but nothing special, especially when many custom makers offer fixed blades cheaper and not a bit inferior.
> 
> 
> > i have been wanting a clip point project II knife for several years,but something just keeps coming up (usually flashlight builds). i spent two months looking for a decent knife with a hollow handle, which is a must for me. when u say custom makers have comparable fixed blades for cheaper are u talking about regular handled knifes that are just as sharp and well built? if not, then please point me to a hollow handled version that i can compare with because right now this is the only well built option i can find.


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## carrot (Oct 6, 2009)

For hollow handles, CRK is the only one. I was referring to the others since the hollow handle lineup is now discontinued and is no longer being manufactured.


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## curby (Oct 6, 2009)

An important thing to consider if you're a lefty like me is ambidexterity. One of the reasons I like the Griptilian is that it's entirely ambidextrous, including clip, open, lock, unlock, and close.

I'd also recommend getting a non-assisted. Not only does it scare sheeple, I prefer a nice, smooth mechanism that I can control over a range of speeds. It's difficult to deploy an AO knife discreetly with one hand. I can open my Grip one handed with the sound of a pindrop. Also AO has more parts to fail, etc. etc.

Don't worry too much about blade steels. As long as you buy from a reputable maker, you'll be pretty safe. The worse choice would be to turn into a steel snob right off the bat that would rather die than carry 440C or AUS6. =)

Regarding handle materials and ergonomics, I'd highly recommend going to some sporting goods stores, outfitters, etc. and trying out knives in real life. For an even better selection, you might be lucky enough to live close to a dedicated knife shop.

Good luck, and have fun! =)


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## SFG2Lman (Oct 6, 2009)

this is my first post into the knives forum, but my edc has been a buck rush for years and it has performed admirably as such (i think its purdy too) just my .02


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## Prat (Oct 7, 2009)

Hi all:

Still here, but I must say I've gotten distracted from knife purchases in the past week or so as my subwoofer blew up (amp) and I've been doing research on that looking for a replacement (and first I had to find fuses for it to make sure it wasn't just a blown fuse and that proved a bit difficult). 

So that's taken over my time recently, but I think it is now settled so I'll be deciding on a knife fairly soon I hope! :laughing:

Thanks again to all for all the great info/advice! lovecpf


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## AKWolf (Oct 8, 2009)

I just picked up a s30v Blur, s30vCFSage and a FRN stretch 2 all beauties ...:naughty:


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## cave dave (Oct 10, 2009)

I don't know why the OP thinks Kershaw is an unknown. I think their sales are more than Spyderco and BM combined. Try to find either BM or Spyderco in small town USA. It is often not very easy. 

OTOH, Everybody in the US can go and handle some Kershaws, just head to your local Walmart and try a few out.

I think the OP doesn't understand what "mid-end" means in the knife world, although obviously *everybody has a different opinion* on that.

Most non enthusiasts would consider a $2000 stereo system to be high end. In the enthusiast market it might be mid end in which case I would equate that to a mid-end production knife like a Blue class Benchmade up to a Sebenza. Any knife you can buy in walmart, such as a Kershaw Skyline, I would consider low end just like the walmart stereo systems. 

Having said all that I really like the Kershaw Skyline and OD-1, both available at walmart. Both excellent quality low-end *real *knifes. (Not to be confused with real crap, bottom of the barrel "knife like objects (KNO)" like frost or something. KNO's aren't low end knifes, they are junk made to look like knifes.


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## cave dave (Oct 10, 2009)

I think some of the knifes you have liked so far is sort of like buying a Bose or Harman Kardon because you think they look wicked cool.



Prat said:


> .... as my subwoofer blew up (amp) and I've been doing research on that looking for a replacement ...



Ha Ha that is what happens when you only spend $2000 on mid-end crap. :nana:At least the lock didn't fail and take a finger off (something that may happen if you don't buy knives wisely)

PS: I'm just kidding about the amp being poor quality. I only know bicycles, knives and flashlights. (Guess what Trek is not the best - they just have the best advertising budget)


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## doktor_x (Oct 10, 2009)

I'm my opinion, it's hard to go wrong with anything in the Benchmade blue class Axis Lock lineup. It's a very strong locking mechanism that keeps stuff I'd rather keep (fingers) away from the edge while closing. The truly ambidextrous open/close nature of it has come in handy more than once. I like a plain edge for daily tasks, but some prefer serrations or a combo edge. It depends what the blade will be doing for you. I don't cut a lot of heavy rope or seatbelts; hence my preference for a plain edge.

As far as blade materials go, I currently favor S30V and 154CM. The breadth of material choices have come a long way from the days of "we have 420 and 440 stainless" in mass-produced consumer folders.


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## Prat (Oct 10, 2009)

cave dave said:


> I don't know why the OP thinks Kershaw is an unknown.



Because when I started this thread I didn't know anything about knives or makers! 



cave dave said:


> I think the OP doesn't understand what "mid-end" means in the knife world, although obviously *everybody has a different opinion* on that.



See above answer lol. I still don't see why anyone needs to spend over $100 on a knife for EDC and EDU (every day use), and more like $50. This is jmo though, but I have a right to it. 



cave dave said:


> Most non enthusiasts would consider a $2000 stereo system to be high end. In the enthusiast market it might be mid end...



I don't know about that, those HT-IN-A-BOX systems get expensive quick.

In the "audiophile" world $2000 is certainly a budget system as most spend $2000 or more on just ONE component in their system...my WHOLE main system (including my Senn headphones and headphone amp) cost less than $2000. And it sounds at least 3/4 or even 90% as good as those which cost 10 times as much (the law of diminishing returns in audio kicks in around $500 per component no matter what anyone pretends; even many audiophiles admit this and that they are just chasing smoke and mirrors in the pursuit of "perfection" and don't mind wasting money trying to find it and meanwhile not even enjoying their music because this and that is "just a tad off"...sad really. well, you're not going to ever get audio perfection no matter what you spend, every component and system has to make compromises period. and yes I've heard some very expensive systems my fool friends and acquaintances have).



cave dave said:


> ...in which case I would equate that to a mid-end production knife like a Blue class Benchmade up to a Sebenza. Any knife you can buy in walmart, such as a Kershaw Skyline, I would consider low end just like the walmart stereo systems.
> 
> Having said all that I really like the Kershaw Skyline and OD-1, both available at walmart. Both excellent quality low-end *real *knifes. (Not to be confused with real crap, bottom of the barrel "knife like objects (KNO)" like frost or something. KNO's aren't low end knifes, they are junk made to look like knifes.



I agree.



cave dave said:


> I think some of the knifes you have liked so far is sort of like buying a Bose or Harman Kardon because you think they look wicked cool.



Guilty!  But...I "grew" out of that phase quickly and will now only purchase a knife that has at least some quality as well as looks, as I hope my revised list evidences.

Btw, I hate the way anything Bose looks (much less sounds), and for cool looking audio gear you can't beat the 70's receivers/amps/speakers! They also happen to be of good quality, some of very high quality (like the tube amps) and bargains! But I only use them for second/third systems, not for "critical" listening.




cave dave said:


> Ha Ha that is what happens when you only spend $2000 on mid-end crap. :nana:



Lol, my sub was a "mere" $350 shipped 3 years ago (which is most definitely "low end" in the sub world where "good" starts at least around $300 and more like $500 on up). It was an Outlaw LFM-2. Great "musical" sub that complemented my Usher monitors well and completed my 2.1 system.

And guess what...I blew up the amp! I plugged it in, stupidly, to an overloaded surge protector that also had power hungry components plugged into it (like my computer, printer, amp, and DAC) and it simply overloaded the amp on the sub. So it was MY fault it blew and nothing to do with the quality of the components. 

And...Outlaw STILL offered to fix the amp for free, even though I had voided my warranty via misuse! Hardly a fly by night company or product. 

BUT, as I was looking to upgrade anyway and have a second sub, I went ahead and got another sub (in fact another Outlaw, the LFM-1 Compact when it was on sale for $319) that I will use in my main system. 

So I will, after my old sub is fixed (for free), now have TWO quality subs (go ahead and google reviews of Outlaw subs if you don't believe me :nana for about $670 total, which is what many spend on just one sub. I will use my old sub for "HT" in my second stereo system I have hooked up to the tv.

Also, amps don't blow easily even if they are "cheap"; that's why old crap recievers/amps (80's on consumer grade) still work, and even just radios that are decades old. I have about 5 30+ year old receivers and amps that work just fine (and even better after I replaced some parts and tweaked them to their original specs) even after years of unuse laying in the backs of closets or in basements. Granted the quality of pre-80's consumer level amps and receivers was far above what they are today (no matter how much HT 15.1 channel receivers cost lol), but none of what I have was considered "high end" back in their day (well, except maybe my Luxman tube amp).



cave dave said:


> PS: I'm just kidding about the amp being poor quality. I only know bicycles, knives and flashlights. (Guess what Trek is not the best - they just have the best advertising budget)



No offense taken don't worry, I don't get offended by what strangers say online!  Apparently you do though to have to follow me into this thread and (try to) insult me over something I said in another thread about a bike (at least I don't remember mentioning my bike in here...and I don't have the time nor do I care to look back over my posts to find out). But this is your lack of self esteem displaying itself, not mine! :shakehead

Yes, of COURSE Trek is not the "best" bike manufactor; actually NO single one is, duh. I simply have a Trek store within cycling distance of me (so I can cycle down there for maintenance/repairs--as I hate to do bike and/or car maintenance/repair--and walk back or have my gf or friend pick me up instead of trying to load the damn thing in my car and get it all dirty!) that had a sale on a model which I rode and liked. Excuse me for purchasing a good quality bike (no one but professionals or those who like to waste money need to spend more than $500 on a bike period) that fit my riding preferences perfectly!  I know there are a dozen other bike brands out there (and I still have a Specialized bike and several in my cycling club of about 25 people of course have different models from lots of different brands of all price ranges), but, uh, most all are about the same quality in the same price range whatever propaganda the bike manufacturer puts out that the gullible buy into.  

Anyway, I've learned all I can from this thread me thinks and I shall now retire from it. I may pop in here to tell you all who have been helpful what knife(s) I have decided upon, but then I may forget as well. So thanks to all helpful posters for helping me to make a more informed decision on a knife purchase.

/out.


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