# Surefire M4 or anything else?



## chalshus (Nov 20, 2006)

Hi!

My first post om this forum. 

I work as a security guard, driving around, mostly to homes that I have not been before, and need a new flashlight. I live in Norway where it is dark all winter.






There is a Magcharger in the car, but it is so heavy, the beem is rubbish, etc.

I have an old P6, but I need something far more powerful, so I was thinking about the M4. It is twice as powerful as the M3 and not as "fat" as the M6. 225 lumens is enogh for my use, i guess. I am looking for a durable light, high quality in all parts are apprechiated and of course flawless beam.
Price isn´t that important.

Are there anything else om the market that can compete with Surefire when it comes to quality/durability? 

Batteries. What batteries gives the best price/performance rate? 
Have anyone tried the Powerizer-batteries or the batteries from Battery-station? Good?

What holster is the best for the M4? 


Other lights in the price range I should concider?

(I dont want a pure HID-light. Already har a Niterider Hid-light for biking and know the pros/cons of HID.)


Regards.
-Christian


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## leukos (Nov 20, 2006)

You could liven up that old 6P by adding an A19 extender and a P91 (200 lumens). You could even run it on rechargeable 17500 Li-ions.


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## chalshus (Nov 20, 2006)

Hmm, sounds nice, but I want a new light.


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## strat1080 (Nov 20, 2006)

Welcome to the forum. If you are going to be using it frequently you might look into a rechargable light. Something like a SF 8AX/NX or 9AN would be about twice as powerful as your 6P and you won't have to keep buying batteries. You will spend a fortune on batteries feeding an M4 if used frequently. I really like the beam that the SF N90 lamp assembly in my 9N puts out. It has a huge perfectly round hotspot yet throws a long ways. A Tigerlight would be nice. Its about as big as the Magcharger but not quite as heavy. It has 300+ lumens and can be had with a pepper spray canister on the rear end of it. I also suppose you could simply use your 6P most of the time and use the M4 when you really need the extra range and output. A M3T would also be pretty nice and would be shorter than an M4.


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## glockboy (Nov 20, 2006)

Surefire M4 + bored the body out for 2 x 18650 + BI-PIN SOCKET FOR MN LAMP ASSEMBLY BY FIVEMEGA + WA1111 =  :twothumbs


.


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## leukos (Nov 20, 2006)

Sounds like you're set on an M4! Yes, it is a very satisfying light. I'm not sure from your post if you want to use primary batteries or if you are looking for something rechargeable. The M4 can be made rechargeable by using M3T lamps (MN15/MN16) with 2x 17670 Li-ions without any other modification. The MN16 should give you almost the same output as the MN60. Here's a good site for comparing beams: http://www.knivesandtools.com/de/help/flashlights-comparison.htm?dist=20m&flashlight1=20mmlcharger.JPG&flashlight2=20msfm4.jpg


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## chalshus (Nov 20, 2006)

leukos said:


> I'm not sure from your post if you want to use primary batteries or if you are looking for something rechargeable. The M4 can be made rechargeable by using M3T lamps (MN15/MN16) with 2x 17670 Li-ions without any other modification. The MN16 should give you almost the same output as the MN60. http://www.knivesandtools.com/de/he...ght1=20mmlcharger.JPG&flashlight2=20msfm4.jpg


 
I like to tell myself that I will not be going through that many batteries.The light isn´t going to be used for long periods, more like on and off after 10 seconds.

If the light is made rechargeable, will i have the same lumen-output? For a shorter time compared to primary cells?


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## leukos (Nov 20, 2006)

If you are happy with primaries, than go for it. I haven't used this particular setup in a while, but I believe it was 30-35 minutes on the MN16 with 2x 17670 vs. 55 minutes on an MN60 with 4x CR123a.


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## wmugrad28 (Nov 20, 2006)

I've been thinking myself about getting an M4 too, but I can't decide between the M3T and the M4. I took a look at the knives and tools website and compared the M3T HOLA vs. the M4 HOLA and I don't see a big difference. The M4 looks like it has a bigger coverage area, but the M3T looks like the hotspot is hotter. Can anyone confirm this with a side by side or from personal experience? What about throw with these two bulbs?

One other thing I like about the specs of the M4 is that with one extra battery I can get the same light and three times the runtime on primaries (M4 LOLA vs. M3 HOLA).


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## LED61 (Nov 20, 2006)

I had the same dilema about a month ago. I am forever grateful to all the folks that sold me on the SF M6. Sounds to me you need the light--best of the best. Top dog. If you use it with pulses like I do, using primaries wont matter--they last longer than you think. I am in the process of evaluating if I can go with cheap titanium or batterystation and the HOLA MN21 using it with pulses. It looks like I'll be able to since I already stressed titaniums for 13 minutes straight (with some significant heat buildup I might add). If you think the HOLA is too bright, go down to the LOLA its plenty bright. Check out my thread

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/138564

I recommend Wquiles beamshots of the M6, they convinced me I HAD decided well. Never mind the fat body, once you deal with the turbo head, it is no issue.
These folks sold me on it, I hope they sell you too!!


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## tibim (Nov 21, 2006)

I would recommend a tigerlight. With or without pepper spray. Cheaper than the surefire M4 by a longshot and will put out more light. Also rechargable(dont know if you want that or not, but it would sure save money on batteries). I would consider the TL easier to pocket than an M4 just cause it's short and stubby vs. long with a giant bezel. Very durable as well, and you won't feel so bad when you drop it.


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## CQB (Nov 21, 2006)

Good luck with your decision! I know (as the rest of us do) how it feels when one is having to decide on THIS flashlight or THAT flashlight or BOTH... etc. 

I own a SF M4. I love it. I prefer it over the M6 b/c I have girlie hands. There I said it! heheh. The M6 is too thick to hold IMO while the M4, albeit longer, is easier to hold in various grips, including the ever-popular cigar/stogey grip.

I've used the stock LOLA and am very pleased with the output. Now I've gone ahead and set it up with rechargeables with a modest investment, only b/c I thought I'd be using it more often. I use 2x600S PILAs with the LOLA for the SF M3T. Smaller hotspot, but overall, it still puts out a nice amt of light, and it still throws well.

However... the M4 cost me an arm & a leg. It's pricey. Then again, it's also made for war.  But I came across this from awhile back and finally went ahead and did it - here's a humble mod which I think you might be interested in:

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglite_2c-123a_mod.htm

This takes your everyday 2C [email protected] light and give it a tactical output of the typical 3x123 lights we all know and love. Just need a water-heater hose, 3x123s, a 6 cell xenon bulb from [email protected], and you bend the bottom spring a llittle, and voila! [email protected] on steroids!  

And as anyone here will tell you, [email protected] will THROW like nobody's business!! Yes the beam is not as nice, there are artifacts, and the like. But I just focus it as tightly as possible and tape the bezel in place. Voila! A very nice output/throw light you can use without having to worry about damaging through everyday/duty use b/c it didnt cost you an arm & a leg!

I have several SF lights. I love my SFs. But when I got the M4 (and I know it's built like a tank) I still didnt want to drop it/scratch it/etc because of how much I spent on it. I mean, it's not cheap! But you are getting what you pay for, obviously. But are we going to war? Are we going to use all of its features? Only you can answer that.

After playign wth the 2C [email protected] mod, I have to admit it's nice being able to use the light without worrying if I drop it or whatever. It's freaking lightweight, it's easy to carry on your duty belt using a C-ring, or holster, and again, it throws extremely well and it's bright, and it's nice to hold. Very comfortable, balanced, and you can still utilize as an last-ditch impact weapon if necessary. Plus compared to the other larger [email protected] out there (2D, 3D, 4D, etc) the 2C is just a CUTE little light, and is NOT intimidating at all, at least IMHO.

Finally, and this might ruffle some people's feathers, but honestly when I compared the beams from my 2C mod vs my M4 + MN15 + 2x600S PILAs, I could NOT really see a *noticeable* difference, let alone a *$300* difference. 

Hope I was able to give some insight. I work in security as well, and the 2C [email protected] performs well for my outdoor checks. I am confident you will find it as useful as I do. If you go for the M4, you wont be disappointed for sure! Just letting you know (as others are) that there are other less costly options available...


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## Supernam (Nov 21, 2006)

Rechargable and powerful- SF10X =)


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## LED61 (Nov 21, 2006)

Supernam said:


> Rechargable and powerful- SF10X =)


 
Yep!!! very nice I want one aside from my M6. Problem is, it is nowhere to be found!!!


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## chalshus (Nov 21, 2006)

QCB.

Thanks for your exellent reply. 
If I buy an expensive flashlight, I don´t mind I scrach it, b/c it is a tool forwork, not a toy.


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## CQB (Nov 21, 2006)

I do agree with you. Especially SF flashlights, these are definitely made to WORK and are not meant to be shelf-queens, regardless of their high price tags. But I cant help babying a few, at least at first when they're still "new"...  After the first couple of drops & dings, then all bets are usually off by then. 

My C3 is all scratched up from frequent use, my 6P is the same. Both great lights for punching holes in the dark. 

My G2 would look all scratched up by now, but the nitrolon polymer material is quite durable and is harder to scratch up actually! lightweight and doesnt get as cold to hold as its metal counterparts. 

My A2 is still in excellent condition b/c I baby it more. The A2 is DEFINITELY a great all-around useful light for many general & security applications.

My E1L & E2L are still looking brand new(ish), thank God! Great long-running lights built to take a beating. I could tolerate dropping these b/c I wouldnt be worrying about blowing any bulbs since they're both luxeons.

My L7 is also looking relatively good even though this was my main duty light for quite some time now. Switched from the 8AX to the KL7 for longer runtime & for the reliability of a Luxeon vs an incan (but less throw).

My KROMA is brand new (*proud smile*). It allowed my A2 to take a well-deserved rest. Pros and cons with both, the A2 being slimmer & less expensive. I love the red LEDs in the KROMA, and the high output WHITE luxeon has a better beam than I first anticipated. And the complete led config just looks so [email protected]!!

The M4 is also brand new actually. But its the most expensive of my humble SF collection. It's larger so its heavier. Shock-isolated bezel or not, I do NOT want to drop this one for a loooong time still.  I bought this to fulfill any need for an outdoor thrower. This does the job bigtime! And vs the M6 there is no batt carrier to muck around with. But everyone will have their preferences.

Sorry for the rambling. I've been away from CPF and its actually nice to let off some pent-up flashlight *passion* on friendly ears/eyes. 

FYI - you can also get a Turbohead if you opted for the 8AX for its rechargeability. I was also interested in the SL Stinger HP XT as well, looks pretty good from what I read up on it...


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## Stormstaff (Nov 21, 2006)

leukos said:


> You could liven up that old 6P by adding an A19 extender and a P91 (200 lumens). You could even run it on rechargeable 17500 Li-ions.


 

Hmm, I like the sound of this for my 6P :naughty:


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## chalshus (Nov 21, 2006)

Dont worry about the rambling. Its nice to know more about the different flashlights, than just read about them on their companies websites. 

If I stay here long enough, I´ll end up buying way more than just one light...


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## Pydpiper (Nov 21, 2006)

The M3T can be converted to a M4, easily and inexpensively. A M4 is just that, a M4.
The M3T makes for a great platform. It can be made to accept rechargeables without physically altering the light, and easily reversible to it's stock form.

The turbo heads in my opinion are for long distance viewing, up close there are better options. When it comes to spotting in the distance it is hard to beat a turbo head in a stock light.
So I say the M3T, that way you are not limiting yourself to a single light, or lamp assembly.

For a holster, don't expect to be comfortable.. It is a tough light to haul around. For the times I need to have mine on my person I chose this one from Maxpedition:
Maxpedition Universal 
It holds the Turbo Head just fine.


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## Pydpiper (Nov 21, 2006)

Oh, and welcome to CPF! It sounds like you have your priorities straight!


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## ptirmal (Nov 30, 2006)

I have a c3 with a cell extender and a turbo head... I like the physical length over the m6... I prefer the combat grip on it as opposed to the M4's standard grip. 

I would recommend a M3T, add a cell extender and you can run any M4 lamps, all the M3T lamps, and if you keep the extender on and use 17670 rechargable lithiums you can power up the M3T lamps for a long time. If time is a concern with rechargables bore out the c3 to accept 18650 rechargables like I did.

Runtime will be longer than primaries and you can still throw in primaries if need be.


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## tlim (Dec 1, 2006)

wmugrad28 said:


> I've been thinking myself about getting an M4 too, but I can't decide between the M3T and the M4. I took a look at the knives and tools website and compared the M3T HOLA vs. the M4 HOLA and I don't see a big difference. The M4 looks like it has a bigger coverage area, but the M3T looks like the hotspot is hotter. Can anyone confirm this with a side by side or from personal experience? What about throw with these two bulbs?
> 
> One other thing I like about the specs of the M4 is that with one extra battery I can get the same light and three times the runtime on primaries (M4 LOLA vs. M3 HOLA).


 
I know exactly what you mean, so I just got myself a M3T with A19 Extender...


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## wmugrad28 (Dec 10, 2006)

Post moved.


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## Holappa (Dec 21, 2006)

I work security here in Finland,i use a Sf 9an commander and i find that the 140 lumens is good to go when searching house and buildings and useing outside.I'm very pleased by it.I work 12 hour shifts,i use the light constantly and have to switch the battery with a new charged one at least once during shifts,also that's why i carry a Sf Z2 with P91 bulb for back up.Can't go wrong with the 9an,i highly recommend it.Then again i wouldn't mind a Sf M4 as well:rock:


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## carrot (Dec 21, 2006)

You might also want to consider the Pila lights, such as the GL4, which, like the M4, uses 4 CR123 primary cells and features a tactical tailcap switch. It's considerably less expensive but does not feature the turbohead or shock isolation. It is, however, built as tough. Just another option.


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## slick228 (Dec 21, 2006)

This may or may not be a selling point, but you can also add a clickie tail cap to the M4. I also like the form factor of the M4 instead of the M6. It’s just personal preference.


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## chalshus (Dec 21, 2006)

I ordered a M4 and 40 Sanyo batteries a week ago. Guess its here next year.   

-Christian (living on the end of the world)


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## batman (Dec 22, 2006)

go for the M6, it will destroy anything in front of it.


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## OscarO (Dec 22, 2006)

chalshus said:


> If the light is made rechargeable, will i have the same lumen-output? For a shorter time compared to primary cells?


 
Hei Christian, og velkommen hit :wave: 

Most people experience a higher output with rechargeable li-ions. They usually hold up better to the high-drain of HOLAs, especially compared to inexpensive primaries. For instance, drop in a pair of 17500s in a SF M3 with the MN11, and you will see a very satisfying output. 17500 cells are inexpensive, and readily available. And if they are depleted during a mission, you can always have a few 123-cells ready.


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## chalshus (Jul 16, 2007)

Hi again!

I ordered a M4 and lots of batteries from a Norwegian webshop in desember, but the light never came.

Tonight I ordered a 9AN Commander from Optics Planet. Can't wait to get it. 
And it's nice to buy from the US these days. The NOK is very strong compared to the USD.  


Regards.


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## chalshus (Jul 17, 2007)

..


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## the fuzz (Jul 17, 2007)

USE an EO-M3T on the M4.
Its the best and slaughter any MN sf bulb . Its whiter tighter and throws 150 + meters hotspot. Its the best bulb IMO and ive used all mn bulbs on my M4. 

Check out the diablo A8 . Its a possible alternative with a 200m throw its a led light. Check th ekick *** rev on it on this forum . very impressive and 3/4 the cost of an M4

good luck


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## chalshus (Jul 17, 2007)

Since I live outside USA, I cant buy Surefire. Just got this from OpticsPlanet:

Unfortunately, at this time we cannot ship any Surefire Products outside of the United States due to restrictions imposed by our manufacturer. The manufacturer has specified that United States dealers should not sell internationally to protect business rights of International dealers.

:mecry:


Have seen the 9AN for about $170 more here....


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## Size15's (Jul 17, 2007)

You could look at Asian SureFire Dealers.


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## adamr999 (Jul 17, 2007)

You can buy one on here on eBay with worldwide shipping.


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## adamr999 (Jul 17, 2007)

the fuzz said:


> USE an EO-M3T on the M4.
> Its the best and slaughter any MN sf bulb . Its whiter tighter and throws 150 + meters hotspot. Its the best bulb IMO and ive used all mn bulbs on my M4.
> 
> Check out the diablo A8 . Its a possible alternative with a 200m throw its a led light. Check th ekick *** rev on it on this forum . very impressive and 3/4 the cost of an M4
> ...



It will not slaughter the MN21.


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## cernobila (Jul 17, 2007)

I know its too late but this is my choice and I actually have this....

Leefbody 2x 18650 cells (for free lumens)
Choice of "C" heads and tails fit this
SF P91 D26 lamp
253 Surefire lumens for 45 minutes (approximate) compare S/F 6P 65 S/F lumens for 60 minutes

this unit has a built in ring to protect the lamp if used as an impact tool. Built like a tank, slim and excellent quality.....perhaps this would be your next light.

Light parts from "Lighthound" and P91 lamp from "Ebay"

BTW, can a 6P head/bezel and tail switch fit the Leefbody "C" fittings body??....anyone?? If so, all you would need to buy is a Leefbody, lamp and the cells with a charger.


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## Owen (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes the Leef C-C bodies will fit the head and tail from the 6P. That's the whole reason for their existence



adamr999 said:


> It will not slaughter the MN21.


No doubt. The EO-M3T is a nice lamp, but it will not "slaughter" any HOLA for the turboheads. I can't speak for the MN61, but the MN16 is very noticeably brighter on 2 Li-ions, and the MN21 has well over double its output.


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## chalshus (Sep 12, 2007)

Ill write in this thread rather than start a new one.


Got my M6 from OutletAmerica this afternoon.
What a sweet light!:twothumbs


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## Cnote (Sep 12, 2007)

*Surefire M4 Devastator Tactical Flashlight*
[contents removed]


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## FlashSpyJ (Sep 13, 2007)

chalshus said:


> Since I live outside USA, I cant buy Surefire. Just got this from OpticsPlanet:
> 
> Unfortunately, at this time we cannot ship any Surefire Products outside of the United States due to restrictions imposed by our manufacturer. The manufacturer has specified that United States dealers should not sell internationally to protect business rights of International dealers.
> 
> ...



If I may suggest a good SF dealer!
http://www.batteryjunction.com/su9ancotaflb.html


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## chalshus (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks for the tip, FlashSpyJ.

But M6 with MN21 is just amazing, at the moment. :thumbsup:
Bought a little Fenix too.


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## jimjones3630 (Sep 14, 2007)

There is more to ejoying a light than just it lumen output. I like the look of SF's, own some but I don't carry them because can get 1351Blumens in a 2C size with over 30min runtime in [email protected].

Whatever is forbidden fruit has that added attraction. If I could not get a SF because of where I lived I might never try a everyday 2C.


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## Monocrom (Sep 16, 2007)

chalshus said:


> Thanks for the tip, FlashSpyJ.
> 
> But M6 with MN21 is just amazing, at the moment. :thumbsup:
> Bought a little Fenix too.


 
Good to hear you finally got the type of light you wanted. 

I had planned to get an M6 as well, but the barrel is just too thick for my hands. Despite being Surefire's largest flashlight, the rechargeable 10x Dominator isn't really _that_ big. It has a surprisingly thin profile. Surefire even makes a holster for it. (Bit surprised only one person mentioned it months ago, before you got your light).

Only negative thing is, the low-output setting is only 60 lumens. High is 500, but only for 20 minutes.


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## Deep6Osama (Sep 16, 2007)

I just picked up an M4 today. It is a great light for duty. I was suprised to see my stock Magcharger beat it out on throw. I was using the 225 lumen bulb. I have not tried the 350 lumen bulb. Not sure if I am going to keep it as it is bigger than I had imagined. I think I will try the M3 next.


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## william lafferty (Sep 22, 2007)

Deep6Osama said:


> I just picked up an M4 today. It is a great light for duty. I was suprised to see my stock Magcharger beat it out on throw. I was using the 225 lumen bulb. I have not tried the 350 lumen bulb. Not sure if I am going to keep it as it is bigger than I had imagined. I think I will try the M3 next.


 

To me, the stock M4 is a disappointing light. A simple modification, however, transforms it. Get a Leef 2x18650 body (C to M) and insert an MN 16 bulb. As an alternative, you can have the stock M4 body bored out to accept the 18650 batteries. The Leef body is available at Lighthound.

In short, this makes the light very bright with a long throw. I sold an M4 before I found this mod. Now I have two of them. And I'm sure there are other bulbs that will work well with the 2 x 18650s too, both from Surefire and from Lumens Factory. I havent got around to experimenting with these yet. Yet another possibility are the various bi-pin bulbs (with a bi-pin holder inserted, of course).

bill lafferty


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## BSBG (Sep 23, 2007)

william lafferty said:


> To me, the stock M4 is a disappointing light. A simple modification, however, transforms it. Get a Leef 2x18650 body (C to M) and insert an MN 16 bulb. As an alternative, you can have the stock M4 body bored out to accept the 18650 batteries. The Leef body is available at Lighthound.
> 
> 
> bill lafferty



17670s will fit in the stock M4 with no boring necessary. Shorter run time than 18650s, but no mods and easily reversible to run primaries. If you keep an AW dummy cell in your spares carrier you won't even have to change bulbs .

Plus, Leef C-M 2x18650 bodies are hard to come by these days, as evidenced by several "WTB" posts.


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## Deep6Osama (Sep 24, 2007)

william lafferty said:


> To me, the stock M4 is a disappointing light. A simple modification, however, transforms it. Get a Leef 2x18650 body (C to M) and insert an MN 16 bulb. As an alternative, you can have the stock M4 body bored out to accept the 18650 batteries. The Leef body is available at Lighthound.
> 
> In short, this makes the light very bright with a long throw. I sold an M4 before I found this mod. Now I have two of them. And I'm sure there are other bulbs that will work well with the 2 x 18650s too, both from Surefire and from Lumens Factory. I havent got around to experimenting with these yet. Yet another possibility are the various bi-pin bulbs (with a bi-pin holder inserted, of course).
> 
> bill lafferty


 
It would be nice if Lighthound would offer these again.


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## Wetterman (Aug 2, 2008)

chalshus said:


> Hi again!
> 
> I ordered a M4 and lots of batteries from a Norwegian webshop in desember, but the light never came.
> 
> ...


But the opticsplanet seems to have their prices so high that you can't just buy from them.


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## Solscud007 (Aug 2, 2008)

I have an M6 and now a M3T body. I also bought an M3 head. So I can lego between M3/M3T/M6/M6 w/M3 head.

the M6 "turbo head" has the best throw. so in the M4 regards that is a good choice. Have you given thought to maybe a M3T?


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## mdocod (Aug 2, 2008)

this thread is almost 2 years old.


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## chalshus (Aug 3, 2008)

And my M6 is almost one year old. Sweet!


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 3, 2008)

An interesting thing you can do with the M3/M3T is add an Surefire A14 extender and you can run three 17490/17500 cells, or bore out all and you can run three 18490/18500's, and use the MN60 or MN61, or the much thought of HO-M6R. The 18mm LiIon's would be better for the higher amp LA's. I personally find the MN60 an awesome light when run with three fairly high capacity Li Ion's, much brighter than run with four CR123's. My favorite output/runtime setup is the MN15 run with two 18650's.

Bill


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