# cheapo's knife threads (merged)



## cheapo (Jul 13, 2006)

i was looking at the kershaw baby boa, or maybe a benchmade benchmite. any experience with these or other suggestions. i want something under $55 and under 5in total length.


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## Reptilezs (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: spyderco byrd?*

high value for the money. decent build but its not spyderco. very good user blades. steel similar to aus 8 and at under 20 you cant go wrong


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## ghostrider (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: spyderco byrd?*

I highly recommend you go over to the Spyderco factory forum and do a search. You'll get a lot of info there, including some that is model specific. You'll also find quite a few people who are impressed with Spyderco's lower line. 

The byrd line is an excellent deal giving very good quality for a reasonable price. While it's true that they aren't Spyderco's, that doesn't mean that the Spyderco quality isn't there. They may lack in the fit & finish department, but the construction is first rate, and they stack up well to other knives that cost more.


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## Sharpdogs (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: spyderco byrd?*

Excellent knives and one of the best bargains for the money. I gave one to a friend last weekend. She chose it over a few other knives I was offering, including the Benchmade Pika.


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## xochi (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: spyderco byrd?*

These are fairly decent knives and a good value for the money but they are what they are, mass produced chinese knives. 

I recently learned that spyderco has also begun using a die cast process that has me wondering about the quality trends of their knives. The process was described to me at Blade and it seemed that an effort was being made to make it sound hi-tech but it sounded like the same die cast metal process used to make Hot Wheels and such. I really like the spydercos that I have (Persian , Ti Salsa, Native) but I'm wondering if the Byrd knives aren't a type of manufacturing audition to try out cheaper processes that trickle up into the higher priced line.


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## RebelRAM (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: spyderco byrd?*

It appears that in the past 2 years Spyderco is trying to expand it's lineup so it can offer products at all price levels. The high-end priced stuff is still very much top quality. And the medium priced knives are still awesome and you get a lot of knife for your money.

I was a longtime CRKT fan, but they really let their customers down when they started putting softer/cheaper steel in their biggest sellers. Now you have to buy the expensive CRKTs to even get good steel anymore.

As to the Byrd series vs. a Spyderco... The Byrds seem ok, but once you have handled good knives, "ok" knives just aren't good enough anymore. Since Spyderco is offering Delicas and Natives at Walmart now for $40 or less, it's easy for most people to afford Spydercos now.


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## jsr (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: spyderco byrd?*

I handled a couple of Byrd knives and they feel fine. Action is good (not as smooth as Spyderco's nicer knives, but still good), no wobble or anything in the blade, they feel well made. If you must stay under $20, I think it's a great value, along with some Bucks like the Mantis, Pilot, and a few others (also MIC). The main thing I didn't like about the Byrd line are the handles are quick thick and I wanted something smaller to carry in my pocket.

However, considering the Delica and Native are only about $40 now (they're not available at my local WalMarts, but you may be able to find them...I ordered mine online), I think those are a better value than the Byrd line, even considering their higher price. The smoother action, slimmer profile, and far batter steel is worth the additional cost IMO.


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## GarageBoy (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: spyderco byrd?*

They're pretty decent for $20 and actually lock up ok, unlike other cheapies and the steel holds an edge worth a damn.


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## cheapo (Jul 22, 2006)

*found a knife*

http://i13.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/04/f3/bf_1.JPG

-David


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## cheapo (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

has to be under $40... but i was looking at this: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/CRKT-Point-Guar...2QQihZ011QQcategoryZ63794QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

how is it?

-David


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## Sigman (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

Personally I don't like partially serrated blades - but we all have our different likes & dislikes - I respect that.

The current bid as of this post is $5.50 - a STEAL OF A DEAL on that knife. CRKT are affordable well built knives.

BTW - PM sent...


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## cheapo (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

why dont you like partially serrated blades?

i like it because it makes it easier to cut through things like fishing lines and twigs.

-David


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## Topper (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

cheapo that is a steal.. Are you bidding?
I won't bid against you if I know.
Topper :touche:


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## Sigman (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

Oh don't get me totally wrong, they have their place in the "kit" for sure! I keep a few around - but they're such a pain to sharpen. Then again, I've never been very good at sharpening.

I do have a Spyderco Sharpmaker - need to practice with it. I probably have every "idiot's knife sharpener" that exists!


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## cheapo (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

geez, that is a good point.... it would suck to sharpen it. 

I am still unsure... it is between the crkt point guard and the spyderco byrd.... whichever has the better blade (stays sharp longer).

-David


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## ghostrider (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*



cheapo said:


> geez, that is a good point.... it would suck to sharpen it.
> 
> I am still unsure... it is between the crkt point guard and the spyderco byrd.... *whichever has the better blade (stays sharp longer)*.
> 
> -David


That would be the byrd. The CRKT, while being well built, has AUS-6 steel. I owned a CRKT with AUS6 and had to sharpen it two to three times a day. The byrd has a steel that is similar to AUS8 in it's properties, but it's pretty hard, and holds an edge better than most AUS8 blades. Down side is that being so hard makes it harder to sharpen, however it also depends on the specific knife you buy. 

Also, at that price you can probably buy two (one serrated and one plain). Another option is to sharpen the plain edge with a more aggressive edge that will allow it to function like a serrated edge. 

I use a combo edge byrd Crossbill everyday, and I've noticed that I don't use the serrated portion as much as the plain portion. This means that I sharped the plain portion more than the serrated portion. I'd say to start with a plain edge because you can vary the sharpening to an aggressive edge. If you decide you need the CE you can always get it later. You can get two byrd Robins for $40 shipped. Get a Crow (even better the Raven) and a robin and its $45 shipped. Then you'll have two different knives. One that will be a worrkhorse, and another one that you won't be as afraid of scaring the sheeple with. Just take the clip off the Robin and throw it in your pocket.


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## cheapo (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

ok... now, reading that, i would like to know.... can you point out to me similar knives but made with harder metals? I am really looking into somthing that i would rarely have to sharpen.

this knife is harder isnt it> :

http://crkt.com/elock.html

-David


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## Coop (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

I prefer the combo edges too... It's not really that hard to sharpen them, just needs a little practice (old steak knives are perfect for this) the serrated part on my emerson needs a lot less sharpening too... I only do the serrated part once for every 5 times I sharpen the smooth part.


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## ghostrider (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*




cheapo said:


> ok... now, reading that, i would like to know.... can you point out to me similar knives but made with harder metals? I am really looking into somthing that i would rarely have to sharpen.
> 
> this knife is harder isnt it> :
> 
> ...


I would guess that it isn't as good as the byrd at edge retention, but better than the point guard (it does list as being harder than the point guard, but not as hard as the byrd). Keep in mind that this is only a guess. I base this guess on my experience with my CRKT M-18-02R (which is also AUS8 at the same hardness as the e-lock). Based on that experience, the byrd holds an edge better but is slightly harder to sharpen.

Truth is, there is more than just hardness that goes into how well a knife holds it's edge. I can only speek from the experience that I have. I've had three different CRKT's in AUS6 that didn't hold an edge very well by my standards. I have one CRKT in AUS8 that I found to be satisfactory in that area. The E-lock may be better, or it may be worse. If it's worse, then it isn't because of the steel IMHO. 

I will say that if you can get a Spyderco Delica 4 for close to the same price then that is your best bet. I've used knives from two different manufactures with VG-10 blades, and have formed the opinion that that is my best option. It holds an edge better that the others mentioned, but isn't very hard to sharpen for some reason (probably the make up of the steel). 

For some people, the AUS6 isn't a bad deal. They may not use the knife much and prefer the softer steel for sharpening. People usually look for a "harder steel" knife because they don't want sharpen as often. This can sometimes be due to a lack of sharpening skills on thier part. Problem is that the knife will eventually get dull, and need sharpening. Then, it's harder to sharpen. If you will be using the knife frequently enough, you'll probably have to invest in a sharpening system (that's what I did), or improve your sharpening skills. for someone who won't be using the knife that much, the AUS6 wouldn't be a bad choice. There are always tradeoffs. I personally believe that the AUS8 would be better, and the VG-10 even better than the AUS8.

At the price of the Point Guard, it may well be a good knife to improve your sharpening skills on. Cheap enough that you won't mind messing up, the steel is soft so that if you do mess up it isn't so hard to repair. IMHO, at that price it would be worth buying just to practice sharpening serrations.


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## GarageBoy (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

CRKT downgraded to 420J2 and AUS4. Pretty bad..
Grab yourself a Spyderco Delica or Native for ~$40


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## cheapo (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

i was looking at a spyderco endura at a local store for $45, but it seemed sorta plain, i like this a lot though... how well would it hold its edge vs spydero?

http://crkt.com/snapfire.html

-David


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## ghostrider (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*



cheapo said:


> i was looking at a spyderco endura at a local store for $45, but it seemed sorta plain, i like this a lot though... how well would it hold its edge vs spydero?
> 
> http://crkt.com/snapfire.html
> 
> -David


Like I said, there are many factors that determine how well a blade holds an edge, and steel type is only one of them. I'd wager that the Endura with VG-10 would hold an edge better than the Snapfire with little difference in ease of sharpening. I also think that the VG-10 will have a little more bite to it, but again this is just my personal opinion going by blade steel alone. And, as I have said, there is more to it than just blade steel. 

I can tell you that the Endura 3 holds an edge better than my M-18, and isn't that much harder (if at all) to sharpen.

Personally, I don't much care for knives that are more complex. I know that the Snapfire recieved some sort of award, but I subscribe to the KISS method. I have handled one of the Snapfires at a gunshow once and will say that I believe the Endura to be a far better knife. The Endura is IMHO, hard to beat in ergonomics. The Endura is a time-tested workhorse, and proven performer.

Also, I think CRKT does a decent job with AUS8 (the steel of the Snapfire), but think the Endura is better. It really depends on what you want in a knife. If you want something with "gadget factor" or "wow factor", then a Snapfire, or assisted opener might be good. I would think that the Snapfire you linked(not the "plain jane" version) would have enough of an "artsy" effect to not be so intimidating around sheeple as the Endura. However, I'm fairly confident that the Endura would out-work the Snapfire. Two different knives, each fulfilling two different needs.

BTW: $45 is a good price on a NIB Endura 3/or 4.


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## cheapo (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

ok... there are so many choices, but i looked at spyderco, and wow.... this knife looks really cool:

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=21

-David


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## ghostrider (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*



cheapo said:


> ok... there are so many choices, but i looked at spyderco, and wow.... this knife looks really cool:
> 
> http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=21
> 
> -David


That is the Native II. It has been discontinued so if you find one count yourself lucky. Many people think it is a great knife. You can get the FRN version with the S30V blade at Wal-Mart for $40 (a steel since just last year before the Wal-Mart deal they went for $70). I suggest getting to a Wal-Mart to handle one if you can. People seem to have a love/hate relationship with the Native in it's various forms. 

A good thing to do is sit down and figure out what it is you like about certain knives. That might give you some direction on what to look for. Many will say that for $40, the Walmart Native is the best deal around. That's hard to dispute.


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## cheapo (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*

its between the native with vg10 and aus10... your thoughts?

-David


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## thesurefire (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: crkt choices*



cheapo said:


> its between the native with vg10 and aus10... your thoughts?
> 
> -David



Honestly unless you use your knife a LOT, you proabably wont notice a difference. I EDCed 440C and went to S30V, and it was a big difference, I then EDCed VG10, and couldnt tell the diffence. 

I Went back to S30V simpily because I the fact that I can buy another spydie native at most walmarts in the case that something happens to my current one.

Between VG10 and Aus10, I would take VG10 because I feel it holds a 'sharper' edge. YMMV.


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## ghostrider (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

The Native style handle doesn’t fit my hand very well, and that’s probably one of the reasons it is known to be a “grip specific” knife. That’s why some people have a love/hate relationship with it. I strongly recommend holding one at a Wal-Mart if you can, even if it’s the S30V version. This will give you an idea of how it fits your hand. Lots of people own the Native (especially since Wal-Mart picked it up), and most of them are extremely happy with it. Something common among many Spydercos is that first appearances can be deceiving, and that they must be used before one can fully appreciate them. Many people have testified that they were initially put off by the appearance of a specific knife because they didn’t think it looked like it would work well for them, only to later be proven wrong once the gave the knife a try. 



I do own the Native III and it's a great Knife. VG-10 is my current favorite steel (my experience is limited). It holds an edge well and sharpens easily. Even though it doesn’t fit my hand well, I still often reach for the Native III when I do extended cutting chores because it’s shape fills my hand more, and prevents hand fatigue. The handle of the Native III is 3D and much more ergonomic. This also means that it is a little bulkier when in the pocket. 


Like I said, the Native II is disco'd, so if you want to try it, now might be a good time since they won't be making any more. They are becoming harder and harder to find. While VG-10 may be my favorite steel (although I do have limited experience), AUS10 is supposed to be very good (if not comparable) also, from what I understand. You should do a search for AUS10 over at Spyderco's home forum to find out more about it. 

The handle of the Native II is stainless steel, and therefore thinner and flatter than the Native III. Most SS Spydies are thinner in the handle than their FRN counterparts, and due to the Native III’s 3D handle design the difference between these two is even greater. The SS Spydies are also heavier. Some people prefer the heft of an all steel knife, but it can also have it’s own drawbacks. Another positive note about the steel handle of the Native II is that those SS slabs scream “ENGRAVE ME!” which can give the knife a personalized touch. 



Choosing a knife is a personal thing. We all have different needs, likes, and preferences. What best for me may not work at all for you. Until you start actually using a knife for day-to-day chores, it’s difficult to know what will fit you best. The best thing to do is figure out what your needs are, and what features you like (or just think you like), then find a knife that fits that description. You may find that your initial beliefs on the subject were totally off, but you won’t know until you apply them practically. I had to go through many knives before I could narrow down what works for me. I initially thought that I would never really need or desire a hawkbill blade. Now, it is my preferred blade style. I often tell knife newbies that it is my belief that the best Spyderco for someone who just wants to start out with a single knife is the Endura CE. The four-inches of blade does a lot more work than three-inches will, and the combination edge is like having two different blades (one SE, and one PE) in one knife. It will also allow you to discover whether you prefer plain edge or serrated. However, with it's municiple friendly, three-inch blade, the Native from Wal-Mart is a great starter knife for the average user.



thesurefire is right (on all his points). If you don’t use the knife very much, you probably won’t notice much difference between blade steels. Do a few searches among different forums, and you’ll find lots of happy owners of CRKT knives with AUS6 blades. For the price of some of the cheaper ones, they are good knives. 



It really isn’t about which knife is better than the other; it’s about which one is best for you personally.


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## NoFair (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

I really like Spydercos. 

I think a Delica 4 is very close to perfect for a EDC folder. The edge is amazing and VG-10 has very good edge retention. I think Lighthound sells them for $42. It is also very light and easy to carry clipped to ones pocket.

You could also get a Byrd Meadowlark with G10 (composite) grip for $22 which is a great deal (got one on the way as a gift ) 

I really don't like SS handles, it makes the knife heavier and a lot less grippy when wet or dirty. It can be made slightly slimmer with steel grip, but not enough to counter the bad points IMHO...

Some people love the Native and the Walmart deal is very good, but you should try to hold a knife before buying.


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## rgp4544 (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

Regarding the Spyderco kniives, if you haven't owned or used a Spyderco before, you might want to try to borrow one first to tinker with it and make sure you like it. A lot of Spyderco's designs are pretty unique and people seem to either love them or hate them.

Richard


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## cheapo (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

my brothers spyderco dragonfly is really cool. I went to walmart today, but nothing  ... i did go to target and i saw this:

http://leatherman.com/products/knives/c302-c303/default.asp

looked really nice imho. But i dont know if the blade will hold iits edge well.

-David


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## cheapo (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

ok... i am looking at these different blades:

vg10, aus10, 440c, or cpms30v

look here at the chart:

http://spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=3

which would you say would be sharpest and/or most resistant to wear.... thanks.

-David


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## depusm12 (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

David 

Have you looked at any of the knives back in the uniform section at the PX. Just to the right of the Surefires, they have a few there. CRKT, Gerber, Cold Steel


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## thesurefire (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

Dump 440C. Once you go to 'super steels' you cant go back. I would rank the listed steels in the order of S30V, VG10, Aus10, 440c

S30V and VG10 are about equal, then theres Aus10 a bit behind, and far far in the rear is 440c. 

The bottom line is dont worry about the steel, S30v, vg10, or aus10 will hold up well. If you dont use your knife more then say 3 times a day, everyday, you wouldnt ever know if it was Aus10 vs s30v, unless someone told you. 

As far as corrosion resitance, I cant say. They all will rust but not easily. If your going to be working around salt water, 'go titanium or go home' 

Off topic: I bought one of the yellow 'pre angled' sharpening things from walmart today. Both the tungsten carbin 'blade shapers' and the fine ceramic part work well. If you can hold a knife you can give it a good edge with this thing. It was about 3 dollars.


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## cryhavok (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

I just ordered this:

2006 Spyderco Delica 4 SS with VG10 plain blade from ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&item=330010720365&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

$43.74 shipped

also check his other items...all are buy it now and he's got quite a lot of models for some pretty good prices. Including Native II VG10 Plain for 32.99 + 4.75 shipping


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## cheapo (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

ok, i have decided that i will go with a native with the cpm-s30v blade.... once i saw that surefire uses it on their delta knife.... i was convinced. now.... serrated, or not serrated... hmm?

i am actually leaning toward getting a non serrated version:

http://newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=5429

-David


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## ghostrider (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*



cheapo said:


> ok, i have decided that i will go with a native with the cpm-s30v blade.... once i saw that surefire uses it on their delta knife.... i was convinced. now.... serrated, or not serrated... hmm?
> 
> i am actually leaning toward getting a non serrated version:
> 
> ...


Good choice with the Native. If you don't have to have the black coated blade, you can get the same knife at Wal-Mart for $40. 

FYI: That ebay listing for the Native II with the VG-10 blade is a misprint. It's the Native III. The Native II is the all stainless version and has a AUS10 blade. Don't know why he has his Native II's listed as having an AUS8 blade.


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## cheapo (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

if i see one at walmart, i'll probably pick one up, but i probably wont, so i will have a black bladed one sent to my local store. Probably a plain edge. Thanks guys for your help.

-David


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## StandOnGuard (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

I vote plain blade. Should you ever need to shave or whittle a stick, open a letter, or cut fine fishing line or string, you'll find it easier without serrations.


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## Trashman (Jul 23, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

What will you use the knife for, mostly? I prefer a 50/50 blade, myself.


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## NickelPlate (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

I never found much use for a serrated blade unless you don't like keeping your knives sharp or if you're cutting rope. A sharp, properly maintained plain edge cuts almost anything much easier and cleaner.

Regards,

NP


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## NickelPlate (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*



thesurefire said:


> Dump 440C. Once you go to 'super steels' you cant go back.




Don't count out 440 steel. If properly heat treated (like on the Kershaw Leeks) it can hold an edge quite well and is very corrosion resistant.

The super hard steels aren't everything. They're much harder to sharpen. Granted once you get them there they hold up better but I can put an edge on my 440A leek blade in few minutes. Takes 10 times longer on my D2 steel Microtech Socom Elite. 

Regards,

NP


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## Coop (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: looking for knife*

If you cut fiberous materials like rope on a regular basis, get a combo or serrated edge, if you don't, get a plain edge. 

Or do like me, get a knife with a combo edge, and a Leatherman charge Ti which has both a plain edge blade and a serrated blade. and if those are too big... theres always the leatherman micra on my keychain... or one of the SAKs in my edc bag... or...


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## cheapo (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

i dont know what i'll be cutting... i just need it for edcing.

-David


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## thesurefire (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

Cheapo, If I recall correctly your still in school. If you choose to EDC a blade, make SURE you know all the legal implications of where ever you are taking it. Most schools here only allow a 2 inch locking or fixed blade, and a 3.5 inch non locking blade. Any more is considered a deadly weapon, and will result in either prolonged suspension or on the spot expulsion, most of the time on the spot expulsion, unless given extenuating circumstances.

If you don’t have a need to EDC a blade just pop a SAK on your key chain. However if your set on buying a knife get a plain edge for general use.


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## ghostrider (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*



thesurefire said:


> Cheapo, If I recall correctly your still in school. If you choose to EDC a blade, make SURE you know all the legal implications of where ever you are taking it. Most schools here only allow a 2 inch locking or fixed blade, and a 3.5 inch non locking blade. Any more is considered a deadly weapon, and will result in either prolonged suspension or on the spot expulsion, most of the time on the spot expulsion, unless given extenuating circumstances.
> 
> If you don’t have a need to EDC a blade just pop a SAK on your key chain. However if your set on buying a knife get a plain edge for general use.


I carried a SAK when I was in HS. Several of my classmates often borrowed it (mostly for triming inconvienent hangnails). I thought that nowadays most schools wouldn't allow such things on campus with the current "Zero Tolerance" laws/rules.


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## cheapo (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

yeah... umm, there is no way i will bring a knife to school.... it will definately get me in some serious trouble. 

-david


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## KAM (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

Get the plain edge, it is easier to sharpen and can do everything the serrated blade can do, the serrated blade can just do some things a little better like cutting fiberous materials


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## cheapo (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

thanks..... plainedge it is.... I appreciate all your help.

-David


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## cheapo (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

well, i saw this at my px... must resist:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Spyderco-Delica...ryZ63800QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-David


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## cryhavok (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

Dammit now you have me looking at the all black spydie's.

ps here's an even better price on the delica all black:
http://hillbillysales.zoovy.com/c=0gWZeHmaI34MOHqE6jRAAiFoU/product/SC11PBBK
also in partially serrated
http://hillbillysales.zoovy.com/c=0gWZeHmaI34MOHqE6jRAAiFoU/product/SC11PSBBK

sigh...


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## cheapo (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

LOL... as long as there isnt much of a difference between the vg10 and the s30v, the delica looks good. The one at the store is partially serrated, which is fine, because, unlike the native, it is 50/50..... thanks.

-David


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## ghostrider (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

They no longer make the black Delica, so if you want one jump on it. As to the comment about little difference between VG-10 and S30V I don't know. Some people say the VG-10 is easier to sharpen, and some say they prefer S30V. I've also heard people say that VG-10 is hard to sharpen. Don't believe them on that one. The difference is negligable compared to my Kershaw with 440A, and the resultant return on edge retention is much greater than the added work. The Kershaw was also good on edge retention. Better than some AUS8 knives I've used. 

I actually have both the Native III (VG-10), and the Native (S30V). I liked the VG-10 so much that I never saw the need to even try the S30V. It sits in a drawer unused and unsharpened for over a year now.


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## cheapo (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: found a knife.... serrated or not?*

is the black on the knives paint or finish? Does it come off easily?

-David


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## NoFair (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: found a knife*

I think the black finish on Spydercos is pretty good compared to others. It will get scratched in time, but probably not fast. They don't use paint AFAIK..

Good choice on the Delica. It is very light and easy to EDC (not like people on these boards have pocket space to spare )and the VG10 is amazing!

Sverre


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## GarageBoy (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: found a knife*

Ok, 
lets get a few things straight.
1. there is NO black plain edge native
2. everyone else seems to be using black teflon. Spydie is using DLC on the Native and I think it's teflon on the Delica - diamond like coating- still scratches- nowhere as easily. 
3. Don't mix up the grades of 440- as long as it has a nice heat treat job - read- comes from a decent manufacturer, it'll be fine
a. 440A
b. 440B (rarely used)
c. 440C (was, at one time, the #1 steel for cutlery) 
4. The Native III is a lot thicker than the S30V version. Steel, it's a toss up, cant go wrong with either. I'm not a fan of the wire clip on the III, but that's personal pref.
Good luck


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## cryhavok (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: found a knife*



GarageBoy said:


> Ok,
> lets get a few things straight.
> 1. there is NO black plain edge native



huh?

check this out:
http://savsonswordsandknives.com/spnablpled.html


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## cheapo (Aug 2, 2006)

*SOG knives?*

how are these knives?

http://www.sogknives.com/flash.htm

they sell them at targer..... is ats-34 any good?

-David


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*



cheapo said:


> how are these knives?
> 
> http://www.sogknives.com/flash.htm
> 
> ...



Yes, I have a Flash II and I like it a lot. Smooth but powerful opening action, locks open and closed. So they sell it at Target? I paid $45 for mine online (I think, it's been a while). Pick one up. Worst you'll have to do is get your money back if you don't like it. It's a win/win


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## Sigman (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

I have a "Field Pup" fixed blade - nice grip, sturdy steel, nice edge for sure!


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## kitelights (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*



cheapo said:


> how are these knives?
> 
> http://www.sogknives.com/flash.htm
> 
> ...


I've got a Flash I and I love it. Small, very light, slim shape, not bulky.

Does it sound like size is important to me? I don't like carrying bulky things in my pocket. The Flash I was my EDC for several months and still is whenever I wear dress pants. 

It has a very nice, comfortable, secure feel in your hand for a small knife and the blade is large enough to be practical compared to most small knives. The opening mechanism is an addictive toy. 

Mine got pushed aside from EDC for a mini-grip. I don't like the weight and bulk of the mini-grip, but it is such a solid tool and the axis lock is just so awesome, I now EDC it in spite of the weight and bulk.


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## diggdug13 (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

I've got a topo meridian and I love it, it's a very comfortable knife to use.


doug


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## cheapo (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

i just saw this knife, and the s60v blade caught my attention- wondering how good it is... HMM

http://cgi.ebay.com/KERSHAW-Ken-Oni...ryZ43326QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-David


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## dinosariopicante (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

ATS 34 is a good steel. Also, the Ken Onion speed safe knives are nice. I have a leek and love it. If you want a slender light EDC with AO thats a good one. If you want a bigger AO, the Camillus Heat with AUS 8 is nice too. Personally I think a flipper is a must on AOs.

Camillus's Webpage for one of the Heats

Hope that link works...first post.


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## cheapo (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

welcome to cpf, why dont you stay a while 

i was going to buy a spyderco delica, but it was too big for my likings.... anything small with a s30v blade??

-David


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## kitelights (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

You sound like your size requirements are the same as mine. My first purchase was a delica, but I wouldn't carry it b/c it was too big. I still have it clipped to the outside my FatBoy. 

I can't recommend the Flash more strongly. Other knives with that small of a footprint felt like they were little more than a pen knife. The Flash feels like a real knife, just smaller. They're available for $35. Shucks the toy factor is worth that. I prefer the PE, b/c most of what I use my EDC for is opening envelopes and packages and a serrated edge is harder to use for that.

I don't think drastically upgraded steels are worth it for knives this small. Most of us that carry something this small are using it like I do - just for opening things. Those that use a knife as a work horse are usually carrying something larger - at least as large as a mini grip.


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## dinosariopicante (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

Heck yes!! s30v leek!  (not saying thats the best price just first thing google came up with) Your pockets will devour a leek. I have the old 440a model and if I planed to EDC a small knife I would def upgrade to the new s30v/g10 version and cary that.


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## GarageBoy (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

The Flash is AUS8, not ATS 34. A little less wear resistant. 
The Flash is a nice design, I just prefer flippered assited openers


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## cheapo (Aug 3, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

i dont like that metal thing between the sides that you have to push in order to close the knives... not cool imho.

-david


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## Steve Andrews (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*



cheapo said:


> anything small with a s30v blade??
> 
> -David



Here's a nice one...
Blade-Tech Mouse 2 with G10 scales 
or
Blade-Tech Mouse 2 with Carbon Fibre scales


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## bexteck (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*



cheapo said:


> i dont like that metal thing between the sides that you have to push in order to close the knives... not cool imho.
> 
> -david




Sounds like your talking about the liner lock. Some like em, some don't. They can make a knife very easy to unlock and close with one hand, but are not the strongest type of lock. I have a few knives with these and don't mind them. The biggest thing you need to watch out for is that you move your thumb once you have released the lock, before the blade reaches it, otherwise you may be picking pieces of your skin off the floor. After a day of practicing or so, your fingers know where they need to be and it is no longer a problem.

You might want to look into the axis lock that Benchmade uses. Its stronger, allows for one hand use (right or left) and does not require you to put any digits in front of the closing blade.


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## BigBaller (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

I carry a Twitch II, I really like the design, its small and compact and reliable, much nicer than my old Kershaw that's open assist action broke.


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## GarageBoy (Aug 4, 2006)

*Re: SOG knives?*

The SOG is NOT a liner lock. It's a pseudo AXIS lock based on BM's


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## cheapo (Aug 5, 2006)

*still havent found a knife*

i thought i had settled with the delica... I went to the store, and it is a nice knife, but it is too wide for my likings. I want something short (<4in) and narrower, with either an aus10, vg10, or s30v blade. It must be easy to open and close with one hand. Must be 50% serrated, and an msrp under $100. 

yes, i know, i am much too picky, but that isnt always a bad thing.

i dont know if such a thing exists, i have been looking everywhere. 

-david


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## thesurefire (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: still havent found a knife*

I can think of lots of knifes like that. None of them are under 100 USD. You *might* be able to get a used benchmade for around that price though.


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## Isak Hawk (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: still havent found a knife*

I was going to suggest the Microtech UTX70, but then I saw your <$100 requirement 

Also, it's an auto (dual action out-the-front actually, super-cool) so it might be illegal to carry depending on the laws where you live.

Like thesurefire said, it might be difficult to find something that meets all your demands for less than 100 bucks. You may have to make some compromises, unless you're willing to go up on the price


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## jeffb (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: still havent found a knife*

Look at the specs for a Spyderco Wayne Goddard

Click

jeffb


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## jch79 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: still havent found a knife*

Cheapo - it seems like we're always buying the same thing! First the U2, and now a knife!! I'm looking at a Mini-Griptilian knife - with the CPF30 discount at tacticalsupply.com, it's a sweet deal (whatever 30% of of $107 is). 

I don't think they're made from the blades you requested, but they're made from 154cm, which from what I gather is equivalent to S30V blade.

Anyways, I haven't decided yet either... I like how small this knife is, but apparently very tough and easy to open & close with one hand. 

My 1 cent.

john


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## cheapo (Aug 5, 2006)

woh, can anyone here confirm that the 154 cm is as tough as the s30v? 

-David


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## Isak Hawk (Aug 5, 2006)

They are both great knife steels as far as I know. Personally, I think there are more important things to consider than the steel used when buying a knife. Most of the modern high-end steels are good enough imo. Things like ergonomics, ease of opening/closing, whether you like the shape of the blade etc. are far more important, but that's just my opinion 

I can relate to wanting your knife to have the "best" steel though, I'm a perfectionist too


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## cheapo (Aug 5, 2006)

i guess you're right... not sure how aus8 holds, but the CRKT van hoy snapfire looks too good to pass up.... it is small, and easy to open and close.... seems like a perfect EDC.

-David


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## ghostrider (Aug 5, 2006)

cheapo said:


> i guess you're right... *not sure how aus8 holds*, but the CRKT van hoy snapfire looks too good to pass up.... it is small, and easy to open and close.... seems like a perfect EDC.
> 
> -David


I have a M-18 from CRKT with AUS-8. It seems to hold okay and isn't bad to sharpen. 

Chances are this won't be your last knife. You'll probably find one you like, and then after using it find that it lacks in some area where another knife you now covet excells. That's usually the way it works. 

I also agree with Isak Hawk. There are other factors that make a knife than just blade steel. In fact, there are other factors that give a blade better performance than just blade steel. 

May I inquire as to why you think the Delica is too wide? I always thought they looked wide, but when I started carrying my Endura I discovered that due to the design, the Endura/Delica series of knives is one of the most pocketable knives in the industry.

I'll tell you a good knife for starting out with. _The Boker Plus Subcom Folder_. It's a great little knife with wonderfull ergonomics and very good edge retention (even in the first generation ones with 420J2). They are reasonably priced and small enough that only the diehard sheeple will find them alarming. It now comes in AUS-8, and even though it fills the hand quite well, it is small enough to fit in the jean watch pocket. It's taking the knife community by storm, and will serve you well.


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## cryhavok (Aug 5, 2006)

I have both a Delica 4 and a recently bought Spyderco Viele II. Actually both were bought within a week...Can you say "compulsive buying"

Anyway the Viele II is completely beautiful. The opening mechanism is so freaking smooth that it almost seems to open by itself. Blade is standard spyderco scary sharp from factory. It also uses a linerlock so one handed closing is extremely easy (I can't close my delica 4 (or any others that have the blade release on the back of the handle). Steel is VG-10. Both my GF and little sister commented on how much smoother it is to open than the Delica 4. Like Night and Day.

comparing viele 2 to delica:








p.s. That's the Japanese God of War symbol on the blade 













The handle material is very cool. On the front side is a smooth micarta while the backside is a checkered G-10 material. G-10 is highly praised for it's resistance to wear and great grip. I like the weight...feels substantial without being overly heavy.

I bought mine for 93 + 4.75 shipping on ebay. I highly highly suggest it. It will be residing in my pocket along with my PD for a LOOONG time.

Oh and what will you mostly use it for? Unless you plan on cutting a lot of rope or something fibrous, a sharp Plain edge will fit the bill.


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## ghostrider (Aug 6, 2006)

cryhavok,

Congrats on the new Spydies, and thanks for the pics. You should be able to close the D4 one-handed as I and many others do it all the time. I usually just grip the knife like I would during normal use, and let the blade drop. Then, I rotate the knife in my hand and close it the rest of the way with my thumb in the hole. The "kick" was put there just for this purpose. 

There are other methods, but I am not that skilled. 

The Viele II is a sweet knife.


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## cryhavok (Aug 6, 2006)

Ghostrider,

Thanks for the tips. With your suggestions I am able to close the Delica 1 handed, but I think I still prefer the "controlled" close of the viele. I was a little nervous about the blade falling onto my fingers, but it doesn't seem like it will happen with just the force of gravity...

Yes I'm really enjoying this knife. It is kind of the "sleeper" of the spyderco line because it is very high quality yet doesn't get much attention...at least not on the spyderco forums. 

I seem to be starting a small spyderco family...I also have a ZDP-189 Black PE Calypso Jr on preorder that should be here Jan 07. I need to keep practicing with my sharpmaker


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## 03lab (Aug 6, 2006)

ghostrider said:


> I'll tell you a good knife for starting out with. _The Boker Plus Subcom Folder_. It's a great little knife with wonderfull ergonomics and very good edge retention (even in the first generation ones with 420J2). They are reasonably priced and small enough that only the diehard sheeple will find them alarming. It now comes in AUS-8, and even though it fills the hand quite well, it is small enough to fit in the jean watch pocket. It's taking the knife community by storm, and will serve you well.


That Böker looks nice, probably will pick one up for my PSK. Thanks for posting.


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## ghostrider (Aug 6, 2006)

cryhavok said:


> Ghostrider,
> 
> Thanks for the tips. With your suggestions I am able to close the Delica 1 handed, but I think I still prefer the "controlled" close of the viele. I was a little nervous about the blade falling onto my fingers, but it doesn't seem like it will happen with just the force of gravity...
> 
> ...


Happy to assist. You finger or thumb is going to be in the plain of the blade with either the liner lock, or the method I described for the mid-lock. However, with the Delica the kick protects your finger much like a 50/50 choil does. 



Your right about not much chatter on the Viele II. Don’t know why that is because it looks like a great one to me. I think they are beautiful knives, but a little expensive for my taste. 





03lab said:


> That Böker looks nice, probably will pick one up for my PSK. Thanks for posting.


To hold one is to want one IMHO.



I’m not a person who likes to carry small knives because I want something I can hold onto. Small knives usually don’t make it into my pocket but this model is an exception. It is also easy to modify.


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## cheapo (Aug 17, 2006)

*got my spyderco delica*

i got a spyderco delica from my pops as a gift. I like it. It is really light, and i can hardly tell when i have it clipped on. The clip is nice and tight too. It is nice and sharp too  overall, a great buy.... btw, i got the partially serrated black bladed one.

-david


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## Cmoore (Sep 24, 2006)

I bought a G-10 handled Byrd Cara Cara recently as an intended gift for a relative (I may keep it though):






I'm pretty much a snob with respect to production knives; but, I found this one to exceed my expectations. Here is the description:

Plain Edge. Mid size folding lock back. Dual liners. Boye Dent. Pocket Clip. length overall 8 5/8" (219 mm) blade length 3 7/8" (98 mm) blade steel 8Cr13MoV length closed 4 3/4" (121 mm) cutting edge 3 7/32" (82 mm) weight 5.6 oz. (166 g) hole diameter 15/32" (12 mm) blade thickness 1/8" (3 mm) handle material G-10 $24.97

Based on this knife, I think Spyderco really got it right with this low cost line.


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## cheapo (May 6, 2007)

update.


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