# R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ/master thread



## dano

Hola peeps, dano here. I figure that there's a lot of questions about this semi-mod. So, to assist, here's a sticky for the ROP, with a caveat--->

Please keep it simple and to-the-point so the newer members can follow along.

Here's a basic page/info: http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9 to get it started...

-dan


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## mattyg

*Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ*

Here's a thread that has an excellent run down on where to find all the parts for a ROP build.

This thread has some "brick & mortar" sources for parts.


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## jnj1033

*Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ*

What if I wanted to do this mod with a 4D Maglite, but using four sets of three AA batteries instead of the sub-C stick? Is there a bulb that will fit the PR socket and handle that kind of current?


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## Icebreak

*Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ*

Are there any alternative recipes for the ROP?

Yes, the ROP bulb being 6V invites many combinations.

Here's one: My ROP 1400. About $70.00 in parts and host.

Recipe:

 The host is a *Mag 3C*

Deanodize the tailcap with lye drain cleaner, wirebrush dremmel bit to clean it up good then a squirt of contact cleaner and a quick wipe to condition the surface.

Reshape the spring with a pair of vise grip needle nose pliers and another pair of needle nose pliers so that the bottom spirals are small enough to allow the spring to drop all the way into tailcap. Bend the end of the top spiral so that it intersects its diameter. This is to insure contact with the cathod (-) end of the last battery.

6 Intellect IB1400 2/3 A from CheapBatteryPacks.

Sleeve them in 5/8" ID X 7/8" OD acrylic tube from Home Depot. Split the tube. Just load it up after charging individually. Charging as a pack will require a clamp.

Pelican PE3854 Hi "Big D" 6V SLA bulb (Roar of the Pelican) from brightguy or Lumenhound. Install it.

UCL or borofloat lens. Replace the original lens.

PerfectMagReflector LOP or lightly stippled reflector. Replace the original reflector.

A Mag 3C is 1 7/8" longer than a 2C but 3Cs are a very nice form factor.

4.30A and 8.09V at start.
4.28A and 7.93V at 10 seconds.
4.15A and 7.85V at 30 seconds.
4.12A and 7.73V at 1 minute and settled down.

That's 1.28V per cell, 31.8476W and 20.38 minutes calculated runtime.

Some good things about a ROP 1400:

1) NiMh chargers. You might already own one. If your location is other than home and your light needs a charge; it's more likely to find a NiMh charger than a Li-Ion charger
2) Easy build. 
3) Safe operation. Safe charging. No fear of fiery outgassing.
4) Flexibility. You can run all the 2C 3X123 and 6cell HotWire solution lamps in it, CA1499, CA1057, WA1111, Pelican Big D 6V SLA, Krypton 5C, etc., etc.
5) Expected small initial sag but after that a nice, non-sagging run. IOWs, a fairly flat output.
6) No battery holder. A length of acrylic tube. So, ZIP added resistance from power source.
7) Very nice white temperature color of beam.

***EDIT***

Someone asked about lumens. Here's a calculation. Not a proven fact:

(7.73V / 6.0V) = 1.28
1.28 ^ 3.3 = 2.25
2.25 x 600 = 1350 bulb lumens
A massive *42.39 lu/W*
1350 x .65 = *877* torch lumens

That's if Pelican is factual about 600 lumens. Looks right to me.
That's if the power of 3.3 is correct for rerating. Sounds right to me.
That's if 35% loss is incurred with the reflector and the window. Never have totally agreed with that but apparently an Integrated Sphere was used by CPFers to prove it.

The Big D low is claimed to start out at 290 lumens.
652 bulb lumens rerated
*424* out the front

***End Edit*** 



I'm getting just over 20 minutes before I notice dimming which is about what a SureFire M6 is rated at but there have been many reports of thermal shutdowns at 10 minutes for them. The ROP 1400 does not experience thermal shutdown. The ROP 1400 also puts out more lumens than does the SFM6.

***Edit***

Additional charging information:

A while back I got 3 Vanson Speedy Chargers. They are 4 bay, 4 channel chargers that have adjustable contacts for AAA to D cells. A pack charger would be simpler but these charge the cells individually. This way I can somewhat monitor the health of the cells as well as know they are optimized. For odd cells like these IB 1400s I use spacers.

#10-32 x 1-1/4" machine bolts stuffed into little vinyl tube sections. The vinyl tube is 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID. I top them off with rare earth magnets which are probably not necessary. Really any spacer an inch or so long should work.

Here is a quick and good discussion where Silver Fox and BullseyeBill explain the operation and solve a problem I was having with CB1650s.

Vanson Speedy Charger discussion.

*EDIT*

*Charge the batteries before use.* Don't rely on the charge they came with. I believe this is true for all NiMh cells.

Here is a scan of a charging spacer apart and together, the re-bent spring, the deanodized tail cap and the vinyl tube with cells in it.







EDIT TO ADD 5C ROP ELITE 4500

I remember that some folks have built successful ROPs using 6 SC RC cells. I recall that josey did it using a Mag 6C long ago. I think it was Whitehot that did it in a Mag 5C by moving the switch forward.

The Elite 4500 SCs are fairly new. I don't know if they are better than the IB4200 SCs. What's nice about the Elite 4500s is their diameter. It's 22.86mm.

I recently bought a Mag5C and some Elite 4500s thinking my measurement prediction might work out just right. It didn't. Even the 22.86mm diameter cells wouldn't recess into a de-anodized tale cap.

Dang.

So I commenced to figure out how to bore out the 5C's tailcap with a hand held drill. I went to Sears and got the closest grinding bit I could find. It was too big so I cut it down by running it against a big rat ******* file. It probably wasn't a rat ******* file but I like to say rat *******.

Quickly I realized that the bit would fill up with Al so I needed to provide lubricant whilst grinding. Some Duralube squirt lube worked and let the grinding bit do its job.

Finally an Elite 4500 would fit into the bored out tailcap.

This ROP 4500 should run about an hour. I've run it through one cycle and am using it in a second cycle.

The 5C format works well for handling and it fits nicely on top of my Maxpedition Operator.

I've used it while navigating through a parking lot at night and it owned the parking lot. I used it last weekend while hiking around on an island in the middle of a river and it lasted well. I like this Hotwire enough that I'll probably buy another Mag 5C before they become unattainable.


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## Alin10123

*Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ*



Icebreak said:


> Are there any alternative recipes for the ROP?
> 
> Yes, the ROP bulb being 6V invites many combinations.
> 
> Here's one: My ROP 1400. About $70.00 in parts and host.
> 
> Recipe:
> 
> The host is a *Mag 3C*
> 
> Deanodize the tailcap with lye drain cleaner, wirebrush dremmel bit to clean it up good then a squirt of contact cleaner and a quick wipe to condition the surface.
> 
> Reshape the spring with a pair of vise grip needle nose pliers and another pair of needle nose pliers so that the bottom spirals are small enough to allow the spring to drop all the way into tailcap.
> 
> 6 Intellect IB1400 2/3 A from CheapBatteryPacks.
> 
> Sleeve them in 3/8" ID X 1/2" OD acrylic tube from Home Depot. Split the tube. Just load it up after charging individually. Charging as a pack will require a clamp.
> 
> Pelican PE3854 Hi "Big D" 6V SLA bulb (Roar of the Pelican) from brightguy or Lumenhound. Install it.
> 
> UCL or borofloat lens. Replace the original lens.
> 
> PerfectMagReflector LOP or lightly stippled reflector. Replace the original reflector.
> 
> A Mag 3C is 1 7/8" longer than a 2C but 3Cs are a very nice form factor.
> 
> 4.30A and 8.09V at start.
> 4.28A and 7.93V at 10 seconds.
> 4.15A and 7.85V at 30 seconds.
> 4.12A and 7.73V at 1 minute and settled down.
> 
> That's 1.28V per cell, 31.8476W and 20.38 minutes calculated runtime.
> 
> Some good things about a ROP 1400:
> 
> 1) NiMh chargers. You might already own one. If your location is other than home and your light needs a charge; it's more likely to find a NiMh charger than a Li-Ion charger
> 2) Easy build.
> 3) Safe operation. Safe charging. No fear of fiery outgassing.
> 4) Flexibility. You can run all the 2C 3X123 and 6cell HotWire solution lamps in it, CA1499, CA1057, WA1111, Pelican Big D 6V SLA, Krypton 5C, etc., etc.
> 5) Expected small initial sag but after that a nice, non-sagging run. IOWs, a fairly flat output.
> 6) No battery holder. A length of acrylic tube. So, ZIP added resistance from power source.
> 7) Very nice white temperature color of beam.
> 
> I'm getting just over 20 minutes before I notice dimming which is about what a SureFire M6 is rated at but there have been many reports of thermal shutdowns at 10 minutes for them. The ROP 1400 does not experience thermal shutdown. The ROP 1400 also puts out more lumens than does the SFM6.



that sounds quite interesting. Never heard that variation tried before with those cells.


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## carbine15

*Old flashlights for ROP mods.*

Mags are great and all but they suffer from a few problems that some older flashlights dont. Take my old 1940's erra 2-d cell light. It's got a glass lens, all metal body, leather o rings, and doesnt need to be bored out to accept a 8AA to 2D adapter like maglights. Sure the glass lens is ancient and opaque. Sure there's no way make it water resistant. Sure it takes old screw in bulbs. There's got to be a stock light out there begging for a sleeper mod.

I'd like to know what you think would make the best ROP mod host using a sleeper light like my vintage flashlight.

pr bulb
all metal construction
glass lens
low resistance switch.
fat body.


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## KevinL

*Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ*

Wow, cool. I never imagined one day I would have my own sticky. Thanks Dano 

(just for the record, no, I did not ask.. in fact I have been out of the loop and away from CPF for quite a while, when this took place) 


*reserved for future info as I get it*


25/11/2007 edit: 
------------------
We are conducting a sign-in. If you have successfully managed to build or buy one or more of these ROPs, you are welcome to 'join the club'!

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2238921#post2238921


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## Alin10123

*Re: Old flashlights for ROP mods.*



carbine15 said:


> Mags are great and all but they suffer from a few problems that some older flashlights dont. Take my old 1940's erra 2-d cell light. It's got a glass lens, all metal body, leather o rings, and doesnt need to be bored out to accept a 8AA to 2D adapter like maglights. Sure the glass lens is ancient and opaque. Sure there's no way make it water resistant. Sure it takes old screw in bulbs. There's got to be a stock light out there begging for a sleeper mod.
> 
> I'd like to know what you think would make the best ROP mod host using a sleeper light like my vintage flashlight.
> 
> pr bulb
> all metal construction
> glass lens
> low resistance switch.
> fat body.



Good observation. However, the ROP mod uses 6AA-2D adapters which dont have to be bored out anyways. haha
So basically, other than that, the ROP is just new lense, new reflector, and presto. It's really quite a simple mod. Almost too easy.


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## Nubo

*Re: Old flashlights for ROP mods.*

The Reflectalite GH44 is a screw-in bulb, 10w, 6V halogen. Gives pretty good light on 6AA. The GH44F is frosted to give you a nice beam if you've got a smooth reflector. If your old light has a metal reflector all you'd need is the bulb and battery adapter. Not in the ROP league, but might be a nice way to breathe life into the old light.


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## drizzle

*Re: Old flashlights for ROP mods.*

How about an old Boy Scout Flashlight? I don't know if it would fit the criteria but it would be funny to pull it out and blow everyone away.


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## carbine15

*Re: Old flashlights for ROP mods.*

wow, where do I get this gh44? To bad I don't live in England.


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## Nubo

*Re: Old flashlights for ROP mods.*



carbine15 said:


> wow, where do I get this gh44? To bad I don't live in England.



Easy to order from reflectalite.com. They're in UK, but will ship for a reasonable charge and very prompt.


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## michael word

*ROP lumens*

I was wondering if anyone knows the actual lumens put out by the ROP with the high and low bulb.


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## missionaryman

*ROP - Possible danger warning*

Hi all,

I recently discovered this about my ROP and thought I better share it with everyone else. 
The best thing about the ROP is it's simplicity and low cost - this is also it's greatest vice.

My set up is a 2C maglite with 2 x LG 18650 2400mAh unprotected lithium ion cells and I use it as a bike light, in winter it does 5 x 30 minute runs a week so it gets plenty hot, and I would say that you'll only get this problem in long duration runs like I do.

In the stock switch the top spring cup which forms the positive contact directly to the bulb is held by a collar made from cheap plastic - it is *NOT* heat resistant and it is also responsible for isolating positive from negative at the business end.

Here's what happened to mine after a few weeks - in-fact it may have hapened in the first day and I didn't notice until now:






It only needs to melt and warp a little more before the two poles short and the power of two 2400mah unprotected lithium ion cells collides  !!!

I am currently working with a friend to develop a heat resistant cup that will reliably isolate the (+) for the (-) (well all I'm really doing is asking him to make one) - if anyone knows of a heat resistant plastic that can turn well on a lathe and take a very thin walled profile please advise.

In the meantime try some teflon tape or paper around the metal cup, perhaps even a good coat of engine paint would be a good fix.

PS: also watch out for the situation some people (including myself) have had where the solder blob at the base of the bulb melts and drops off inside the switch as this too can create a short.


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## DUQ

*Re: ROP - Possible danger warning*

Thanks for the warning. Im building an ROP now so this is something I do need to look into. Im thinking that a piece of thin mica should fit in there. You could use PTFE (Polytetrafluoroethylene) rod. Easily machined and rated to 260C.


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## PhotonAddict

*Re: ROP - Possible danger warning*

Thanks for the warning. I recently built a ROP running off NiMH AAs. I don't run it for extended periods but it's still something I will keep an eye on. Which bulb do you use, the high or the low output?


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## Knight Lights

*Re: ROP - Possible danger warning*

Very interesting, I haven't heard of failures with the WA lamps in similar situations, so it seems a little strange that the ROP lamps can cause this much problem.

Bill


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## WhiteHot

*Re: ROP - Possible danger warning*



Knight Lights said:


> Very interesting, I haven't heard of failures with the WA lamps in similar situations, so it seems a little strange that the ROP lamps can cause this much problem.
> 
> Bill



I think we are pushing the BigD SLA around 30 Watts. Most of the WA bulbs in this range are being used in the ceramic sockets nowdays.


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## bwaites

*Re: ROP - Possible danger warning*

There are literally HUNDREDS of potted WA1185's, 1111's, and 1274's out there running in MagMods. (Heck, I've sold somewhere around 40-50 myself). I have an 1185 in a 6D with 1/2D 4000 Mah cells driving it. It runs for close to an hour, and I haven't had problems. 

Maybe Mag changed the plastic?

Bill


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## Templar223

*Re: ROP - Possible danger warning*



bwaites said:


> I have an 1185 in a 6D with 1/2D 4000 Mah cells driving it. It runs for close to an hour, and I haven't had problems.
> 
> Maybe Mag changed the plastic?
> 
> Bill




:huh2:

Running an 1185 for an hour constant with a potted bulb?

I had things start to go bad in six minutes with an ROP/LO and the bottom melted on the bulb in about a half-hour or so. (See the thread on ROP/Lo Torture Test).

I also was "cooking" an 1185 bulb in a Mag85 one day and I forgot about it for about 20 minutes and the plastic mounting assembly appeared to be very "soft" and seemed to be slightly deformed - and that was with the head off allowing a lot of the heat to escape. 

I couldn't imagine running any modded light with a stock lamp assembly for an hour constant and not suffer bad things without further modifications to that assembly.

John


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

*Re: ROP - Possible danger warning*

I've been trying to do a poor mans Rop Lo. I have been reading that a M*g-num Star 6 or even 5 cell Xenon is good.

The Rop Hi draws better than 4 amps. With a LOP reflector it rocks! 

Now I have a 5 cell Xenon in my 2C with 2x18650. It draws almost an amp ( .98) and the LOP reflector doesn't really tame it. Even the deep 2" off my M*g85 doesn't really help it.

It just adds more fuel to my belief than when you have enough power, reflectors mean a trifle less.

Additionally, I have 2 lights with 6AA driving a 4 cell Krypton (frosted) and one with 8AA driving a 6 cell (again frosted) and they have FAR more usefull beams than anything I've tried in this 2C short of the Rop Hi.

Gotta get a Rop Lo bulb somehow. But can't order online...


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

*Re: ROP - Possible danger warning*

OT by a bit.... 

But a ROP LO alternative all the same.

It's a bit more involved, requireing a bi-pin mod (either MC or something from FM).

But run a stock M*gcharger bulb on 6 consumer AAs, and it pullls right about 2A.

I run mine with an unfrosted bulb in an M2 MOP reflector. In a 2D with either Modamag or FM 6AA-2D battery holder, and a M*gcharger glass lense.

It is awfully nice of beam!

I suspect a ROP LO would do about the same amp draw....


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## webley445

*Powering the ROP*

I'm getting it together to build a 2D ROP but have a few questions and would like everyone's opinions.
I currently have a 3D Mag85. So this is a bit of a step down, but I want a easier to carry, smaller light with big output for work.

Should I go with the 6 cell or 7 cell setup to power the ROP? Is there really that much difference between one cell?

Will Titanium brand 1800 or 2000 mah cells fit 4 across in an unbored body? 
Been looking for some of the batteries from Modamag's compatability charts but no luck finding them so far.
Hoping to use my two 4AAx1D holders if I go the 7 cell route.
Or should I stick with 6 and maybe consider CPB 1650 (read someone reccomending them in another thread).
Can I charge the 1650's in the standard nihm chargers I currently use?

When it comes to mods I'm more of a "drop in" kind of guy. Not interested in going lithium. Just want to keep it simple , thanks.


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## Delvance

*Re: Powering the ROP*

One cell will make a difference if you're 6 cell setup is using cheapie batteries. I say go for 6 cbp1650s for simplicity sake...otherwise you'll have to hunt down the right brand and capacity battery to fit four across. I seem to remember Rayovac 1800s fit four across and Energizer/Sanyo 2500s fit if you face the thick part of the battery label inside for all four batteries.

CBP1650s can be charged in most normal nimh chargers. They don't have any nipples on them, the trick is to use a small magnet or al-foil...or a bit of twisted wire. I use the last option, and have left the housing on half of the piece of wire...the other half is bare wire to connect the battery to the charger's contacts.


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## Warhoggie

*Re: Powering the ROP*

Just remember, everything is a compromise. You'll get a bit more light going 7 cells, but you will also shorten the life of the ROP.  

Cheers.


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## simonsays

*Re: Powering the ROP*

I would suggest going with the 6 cbp 1650's. I manage to charge mine in a 'standard' NiMh charger by rolling up a small ball of aluminum foil as a temporary +ve nipple. I've yet to instaflash a bulb despite always using the batteries hot off the charger. I believe this only becomes an issue if you are using 7 cells.

simon


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## Alin10123

*Re: Powering the ROP*

Yea, the ROP bulb will run fine hot off the charger with 6 cells. IMO this is already plenty bright. I can't even use this light indoors since the reflections off of the painted walls always blind me when i walk into an empty room. 

8 cells will most likely require you to bore a light out. I believe there are periodically bored out 2D mags for sale in the GB section. 

I would just do 6 cells. You can try the sanyo 2600 cells for extra capacity too. They dont sag under voltage like some of the other cells.


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## flash

How long should I wait after pluging 7 freshly charged batteries into the light? I want to use 7 Rayovac IC3's (they don't charge completely when the light goes off right?), but then I don't want to instaflash any bulbs.


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## flash

*7AA's in a ROP Hot Off The Charger?*

Has anyone tried to run a ROP (high or low) with 7 consumer grade AA batteries hot off the charger? Would this instaflash the bulb?

Would it help if the switch was not fixed to lower resistance?


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## carbine15

*Re: 7AA's in a ROP Hot Off The Charger?*

Is it wierd that I'm running 8 hot off the charger sanyo 2300's in my ROP low and it's dim as hell? Switch resistance is very high in military angleheads.


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## bonklers

*Pelican big D, the most efficient bulb?*

1150 lumen for a 25 Watt bulb = 46 lumen/watt efficiency for an incandescent light. How is this possible? And whats the bulb life of this pelican big D bulb?

The most efficient incandescent bulb I know is the Osram HLX 64610 with 1600lumen @ 50 watt which only gives 32 lumen/watt efficiency. It does has it downside, a very short life of 50 hrs.


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## eebowler

*ROP PROBLEM*
Hey guys. I realize this question is in the middle of a discussion but since it is the official ROP thread, I have a question/problem if you don't mind giving me some :help:

I bought a cammed reflector with a too small hole. Widened it with a cone shaped bit with my 'dremel' enough for both bulbs to fit comfortably. The problem I'm having is with the stupid bulb post assembly. When I'm screwing down the head after putting in the bulb, the cam, when it pushes down on the small 'wheel' of the bulb post assembly, causes the metal cylinder to lean to one side. The bulb itself also leans and comes into contact with the inside of the hole of the reflector. The end result is that the reflector scratches the bulb when I'm screwing down the head and leaves a silver coating of aluminum which does not come off with alcohol. (methanol) Even when the head is fully screwed in, when focusing the light, the reflector still rubs on the bulb.

I've never seen anyone post anything like this before. AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG? I have tried to help the situation by inserting the bulb, screwing on the base of the head first then inserting the reflector and finishing by screwing down the top of the head with the lens. Still while focusing there is rubbing. I've also tried biasing the position of the reflector's hole but, that hasn't helped either. The problem is more pronounced with the Low bulb. I'm afraid that the scratching will cause one or both of my bulbs to explode and that the sliver coating will reduce output. 

Can you help me?


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I'll take a shot in the dark here...

I would guess that one or both of two things is going on. Either you need to open up/center up the bulb hole or tweak on the PR base of the bulb to get it to lean where you want it to.

I've never experienced the bulb rubbing hard enough to transfer material. So I'm purely guessing here!!!

But I would think you removed material unevenly....


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## eebowler

OK. I biased the reflector's hole again and it did seem to help this time. Later on when its quiet, I'll listen for rubbing.

Playboy, yes, it is possible that I did the hole bad though my method seemed right at the time. If the hole itself was widened wrong, wouldn't the bulb always be rubbing on one side of the hole and therefore the silver markings will be all arround the bulb? :shrug: Thanks for the response.


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## PeteBroccolo

I THINK I have read through this thread sufficiently and I do NOT think I have see these points about the Mag 2 C Li-ion version, so here goes:

- would using 3 CR123A 3.0 protected regulated cells work just as well, since the Ni-Mh version is operating on 6 AA, which would be about 9.0 volts?

- would using 2 x 18500 cells allow you to use the standard Mag tail-cap and spring without any modifications to either item?

- does use of 2 x 18650 cells allow longer run time than either 2 x 18500 or 3 CR123A cells?

- cammless or cammed reflector?

- LOP, MOP, HOP, or HS?

- does this ROP make me look fat?


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## Mad1

Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to put this.

Ive gathered most of the parts for my first ROP, the reflector should be delivered soon.

However I am missing one vital piece a 2D to 6AA battery holder.

Does anyone know where I can get one? Or at least tell me how I can make one. 

The Sandwich Shoppe sells them but are out of stock I e-mailed him but I've not got a reply.

Thanks so much.


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## Brighteyez

I don't think (actually I happen to know) that Modamag isn't too far from the Sandwich Shoppe, so their supply will probably be replenished soon. If you can't wait, you might want to try the 3AA-1D adapters from Litemania (check Dealers Forum for thread starting with Surplus). 



Mad1 said:


> Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to put this.
> 
> Ive gathered most of the parts for my first ROP, the reflector should be delivered soon.
> 
> However I am missing one vital piece a 2D to 6AA battery holder.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get one? Or at least tell me how I can make one.
> 
> The Sandwich Shoppe sells them but are out of stock I e-mailed him but I've not got a reply.
> 
> Thanks so much.


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## Mad1

Thanks for the info Brighteyez.


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## missionaryman

I was wondering where my thread went, it got magically merged into here - sorry if I missed anyone's questions...


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## phatalbert

Can someone point me in the right direction for a discussion on the neccesity of metal reflectors and glass lenses in the "2 D" size ROP. How long can the light be used safely before the stock items break down? Thanks!


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## LumenHound

Here's why.


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## phatalbert

LumenHound said:


> Here's why.



Perfect! Thanks so much!


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## not2bright

PeteBroccolo said:


> I THINK I have read through this thread sufficiently and I do NOT think I have see these points about the Mag 2 C Li-ion version, so here goes:
> 
> - would using 3 CR123A 3.0 protected regulated cells work just as well, since the Ni-Mh version is operating on 6 AA, which would be about 9.0 volts?
> 
> - would using 2 x 18500 cells allow you to use the standard Mag tail-cap and spring without any modifications to either item?
> 
> - does use of 2 x 18650 cells allow longer run time than either 2 x 18500 or 3 CR123A cells?
> 
> - cammless or cammed reflector?
> 
> - LOP, MOP, HOP, or HS?
> 
> - does this ROP make me look fat?



edit: Oops, I missed the NiMH bulb part and assumed the SLA bulb...

PeteBroccolo, I'm not sure if anyone answered your question about the 3x123 vs. the 6aa for the ROP. The ROP seems to use 6aa NiMH cells in series which comes out to 7.2v. I would imagine that 3x123 option would flash, or seriously shorten the life of the bulb. In addition I wouldn't want to use 3 CR123 in that high current configuration given the recent "mishaps" with the multi cell 123 lights.


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## Brighteyez

I don't think that you'll be able to use the protected RCR123 batteries as the current draw is going to be too high with the Pelican bulbs, though since they are designed to be run at 9V the 3 CR123 batteries should be fine, though I'd suspect you'd get close to an instaflash on the battery (relatively short run time  ).

2 x 18500 batteries would be working at what is probably the actual rating for the bulb (usually 9V bulbs are rated at 7.2V), though again, the run time would be relatively low given the 1300 mAh capacity of the 18500 batteries. But dimensionally you should be able to use these batteries in a 2C body with just an adapter tube and a crimped tailcap spring to accommodate the smaller diameter of the battery (see flashlightreviews.com's 3xCR123 Mag-Num Star 6 cell bulb mod article) 

Using 2 x 18650 batteries was the reason that I responded to this post, and is a point of interest of mine as well, though it is with the use of a Mag Xenon 6 cell bulb rather than one of the Big D bulbs (backup/spare light to a SL-20). Someone brought in an Elektrolumens 2D light (BR1?) into work yesterday that had 2x 18650 batteries in a hose adapter. I think this is something that I'd be interested in looking into as an alternative to the 6 cell NiMH battery combinations (besides I want to see the look on people's faces when they pick it up expecting the weight of 2 D sized batteries inside. :lolsign: ) 



PeteBroccolo said:


> I THINK I have read through this thread sufficiently and I do NOT think I have see these points about the Mag 2 C Li-ion version, so here goes:
> 
> - would using 3 CR123A 3.0 protected regulated cells work just as well, since the Ni-Mh version is operating on 6 AA, which would be about 9.0 volts?
> 
> - would using 2 x 18500 cells allow you to use the standard Mag tail-cap and spring without any modifications to either item?
> 
> - does use of 2 x 18650 cells allow longer run time than either 2 x 18500 or 3 CR123A cells?
> 
> - cammless or cammed reflector?
> 
> - LOP, MOP, HOP, or HS?
> 
> - does this ROP make me look fat?


----------



## PeteBroccolo

not2bright said:


> PeteBroccolo, I'm not sure if anyone answered your question about the 3x123 vs. the 6aa for the ROP. The ROP seems to use 6aa NiMH cells in series which comes out to 7.2v. I would imagine that 3x123 option would flash, or seriously shorten the life of the bulb. In addition I wouldn't want to use 3 CR123 in that high current configuration given the recent "mishaps" with the multi cell 123 lights.


Thanks very much, and no, I had not gotten a reply, either on here or via PM.

I am not too worried about the "mishaps", in that I have been using multiple RCR123A on other bulbs, but then again, I have not run them for long.

I am mainly trying to run the brightest bulb, on the most power, with the least expensive rechargeable cells, in the smallest form factor that would be most familiar to my partners and "clients", so that I can cause "enlightenment" on both their parts (but in a different way for each!)

I realize, of course, that the above is probably why we are all on this site - other than Sasha, who is here because...well, who knows?!


----------



## PeteBroccolo

Brighteyez said:


> I don't think that you'll be able to use the protected RCR123 batteries as the current draw is going to be too high with the Pelican bulbs, though since they are designed to be run at 9V the 3 CR123 batteries should be fine, though I'd suspect you'd get close to an instaflash on the battery (relatively short run time  ).
> 
> 2 x 18500 batteries would be working at what is probably the actual rating for the bulb (usually 9V bulbs are rated at 7.2V), though again, the run time would be relatively low given the 1300 mAh capacity of the 18500 batteries. But dimensionally you should be able to use these batteries in a 2C body with just an adapter tube and a crimped tailcap spring to accommodate the smaller diameter of the battery (see flashlightreviews.com's 3xCR123 Mag-Num Star 6 cell bulb mod article)
> 
> Using 2 x 18650 batteries was the reason that I responded to this post, and is a point of interest of mine as well, though it is with the use of a Mag Xenon 6 cell bulb rather than one of the Big D bulbs (backup/spare light to a SL-20). Someone brought in an Elektrolumens 2D light (BR1?) into work yesterday that had 2x 18650 batteries in a hose adapter. I think this is something that I'd be interested in looking into as an alternative to the 6 cell NiMH battery combinations (besides I want to see the look on people's faces when they pick it up expecting the weight of 2 D sized batteries inside. :lolsign: )


Thanks for your reply as well. I think I will do a Mag 2 C li-ion ROP, although I am not able to do so as cheaply as I wanted to (see my tearful post in General Discussions about no longer getting way-cheap 2 C!). I will just have to swap out my KPR118, LMSA601 and 3854 bulbs back and forth in my lone Mag 2 C, and use either the 3 RCR123A or 2 x 18500 cells. At least I can standardize use of cells between my modded Mag 2 C and my Pila GL3.


----------



## Mad1

Does anyone know how I can get rid of the hole in the middle of my beam? It's a 2D ROP Hi with a camless MOP reflector.


----------



## Icebreak

Is it a litho123, a modamag or a FiveMega?

Did you get any round shims with it?

You can tell if it needs to be shimmed. USING EYE PROTECTION, remove the reflector from the head and the head from the barrel. Lay the reflector back in place on the light w/o the head. Holding the torch above eye level and pointed at a ceiling with one hand, use the other hand to move the reflector up slightly and see if the donut hole goes away.


----------



## Mad1

Its Modamag.

Yeah the donut goes when I move it up slightly. How can I fix this?

Thanks.


----------



## Icebreak

OK. I think we have it figured. You'll need to shim it to cause the lamp to sit lower in the reflector. Obviously this will bring the filament down axially where it is in postition to properly use the reflector to focus.

Carley lamps often come with shims. They look like thin washers. By my eye they are 13.5 mm OD and 9 mm ID. I don't have a digital caliper so I'm guessing they are .25 mm thick. 

The shims are usually used by dropping them into the Mag lamp retaining cap, dropping the lamp in and then installing the retaining cap, shims and lamp onto the lamp pedestal. The shims _can _be used between the the retaining cap and the reflector.

Sometimes it takes several tries to shim a lamp correctly.

It's possible to use washers you have on hand to shim the lamp.

You may want to PM modamag to see if he may have some shims available. litho123 might or maybe someone reading this thread may have some extras and chime in. 3 to 5 will usually be enough.

It's important to get the axial and lateral positioning of the filament correct for good focus and performance. Luckily the ROP bulbs usually need little or no lateral focusing.


----------



## DFiorentino

Mad1 said:


> Its Modamag.
> 
> Yeah the donut goes when I move it up slightly. How can I fix this?
> 
> Thanks.



See the bottom of first post in modamag's original thread. Took me about 30 seconds to do this mod to my switch with a dremel once the switch assembly was out.

Oh, and just to throw this out for the sake of this FAQ, my 'work' ROP is a 3C varient running 6 1/2SC's. :naughty: 

-DF


----------



## jar3ds

dang... I just had my first ROP experience... I had the 2" FM bezel on there and HOLY COW... amazing...

the 2" bezel really makes the light worth it.... a beautiful beam... i'm really happy with it...

I can shine the sucker all the way down my street... it shoots a light saber into the air...

i just can't wait for my Mag85 now


----------



## Icebreak

DFiorentino said:


> See the bottom of first post in modamag's original thread. Took me about 30 seconds to do this mod to my switch with a dremel once the switch assembly was out.



Mad1 -

The above is the correct and accepted fix for the M2. I don't know for sure if a shim fix works for the M2 because I don't have one.



DFiorentino said:


> Oh, and just to throw this out for the sake of this FAQ, my 'work' ROP is a 3C varient running 6 1/2SC's. :naughty:



DF -

I think I may have asked you this before but my RAM/ROM seems to challenged lately. Could you tell us again how you accomplished this and what specific cells you used?


----------



## Mad1

Ok I tried the washer and it worked fine. Im going to experiment with a few other size washers later, going to pick up a digital caliper tomorrow.

Thanks guys.


----------



## DFiorentino

Icebreak said:


> DF -
> 
> I think I may have asked you this before but my RAM/ROM seems to challenged lately. Could you tell us again how you accomplished this and what specific cells you used?



I have that same RAM/ROM problem as well. :lolsign:

Actually, what I had originally was a 12 x 1/2SC NiCD stick (end to end soldered) that I had bought from cheapbatterypacks.com a while ago. This was in a 6D powering up some MR16's (my first mod oh so long ago). With the host gone, I decided to make use of the batteries by breaking the stick in half. The cells are Sanyo's and are 1300mAh in capacity. I did have to 'bore' the tailcap slightly. Basically, the lip where the stock spring sits had to be lowered a few mm. I then 'massaged' the stock spring so it would sit in the bottom of the tailcap. It seems like more work that its worth, but I had an old 3C sitting doing nothing, a battery stick (that is now two sticks) sitting doing nothing, and an old AC/DC Peak Vision NiCD 6-7 cell charger sitting doing nothing. 


-DF


----------



## Icebreak

Mad1 said:


> Ok I tried the washer and it worked fine...snip


Excellent.


----------



## Mad1

Now to see what all this Mag85 fuss is all about.


----------



## flash

Would there be much of a difference from running 7AA vs. 6AA?

What would be the effects on: runtime, bulb-life, and light output?


----------



## wattsoccurring

Hi All,
I have a M*g 2D which has been ignored in a drawer for a few years. Having read a fair bit here about the ROP, I feel inspired to have a go and make this as my first proper mod.
If I’ve understood things correctly, these are the items I need:
3854 bulbs (Poss from Lighthound)
A glass lens (also Poss Lighthound)
A camless metal reflector with a slightly widened bore, MOP (poss from Shoppe),
which means I’ll need to make this mod to the standard M*g bulb holder
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1116635&postcount=83
….and last but by no means least, a 6AA to 2D battery holder. 
The last part seems to be the sticking point at present. Are there any available at the moment: the Shoppe is sold out?

If some one colud have a look at the points above and just say yeh or neh, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Delvance

Yep, and some batteries. if you don't want to modify the switch, you can use focus shims. They are thin metal washers you place around the bulb to adjust the focus/bulb position relative to the reflector. Litho123 supplies focus shims with his reflectors if you ask for them. He has a thread over at the sell section of lights (his reflectors won't need to be widened to fit the ROP hi bulb).

Fivemega has some 6aa to 2d adapters for sale atm over in groupbuys and passarounds as well. Also recommend getting a UCL lense for the ROP, not a borofloat (much higher transmittance but slightly weaker).


----------



## Icebreak

_"I did have to 'bore' the tailcap slightly. Basically, the lip where the stock spring sits had to be lowered a few mm."_

DFiorentino -

Ahhhh! You did answer this question before. The "'bore'" was the unique ID I needed to boot the brain. 3C ROPs Rock.

Delvance -

I'm thinking you might be the "Optimisor" of HotWires. I saw your latest ROP beam shot last night. Got a little blue going on there. NICE!


----------



## wattsoccurring

Delvance said:


> Yep, and some batteries. if you don't want to modify the switch, you can use focus shims. They are thin metal washers you place around the bulb to adjust the focus/bulb position relative to the reflector. Litho123 supplies focus shims with his reflectors if you ask for them. He has a thread over at the sell section of lights (his reflectors won't need to be widened to fit the ROP hi bulb).
> 
> Fivemega has some 6aa to 2d adapters for sale atm over in groupbuys and passarounds as well. Also recommend getting a UCL lense for the ROP, not a borofloat (much higher transmittance but slightly weaker).



Delvance,
Thanks for the heads-up. I've now placed an order with Fivemega for an adaptor and a reflector .
Thanks also for the tip about the choice of lens.

(And OT - Thanks for letting us borrow the Ashes for the year.... ;-)


----------



## geepaw

Greetings to all. Long time listener, first time caller. I'm sure this info is in here somewhere, but I can't find it. Can the hi and low bulbs be ran with the same batts? [ cbp 1650's ]


----------



## Delvance

geepaw,

The low and the hi bulb can be run off the same batteries, you won't need to change anything except the bulb . And welcome to CPF! Hide your wallet hehe.

wattsoccurring

Welcome and lol welcome . Have fun with the ROP! If you havn't played with a hotwire before, you're in for a suprise  

Icebreak,

Wow, thanks for the compliment!  If only i wasn't saving up for car, i'd have so many projects going on lol.


----------



## DUQ

I just fired up my ROP LE tonight. It sure has the "wow" factor going for it. I cant believe how bright it is. I need to build more hotwire's


----------



## geepaw

Thanks for the reply Delvance. Wallet has already taken a severe hit.


----------



## Pumaman

what is the best way to charge "6 Intellect IB1400 2/3 A from CheapBatteryPacks"?


----------



## Icebreak

I think some folks would prefer using a smart pack charger and a big clamp or maybe have CheapBatteryPack make a pack.

I use loose cells in a vinyl sleeve.

A while back I got 3 Vanson Speedy Chargers. They are 4 bay, 4 channel chargers that have adjustable contacts for AAA to D cells. A pack charger would be simpler but these charge the cells individually. This way I can somewhat monitor the health of the cells as well as know they are optimized. For odd cells like these IB 1400s I use spacers.

#10-32 x 1-1/4" machine bolts stuffed into little vinyl tube sections. The vinyl tube is 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID. I top them off with rare earth magnets which are probably not necessary. Really any spacer an inch or so long should work.

Here is a quick and good discussion where Silver Fox and BullseyeBill explain the operation and solve a problem I was having with CB1650s.

Vanson Speedy Charger discussion.


----------



## wattsoccurring

I'm attempting my first ROP (6AA-2D) and have read about the benefits of the CBP1650 batteries over higher capacity batteries re lack of voltage sag.
Are there any more familiar brands that have an equal/similar performance which might be more readily available worldwide (UK specifically)?
Just trying to save myself one more transatlantic parcel 
Cheers.


----------



## Pumaman

I ordered the 1400 cells. Had already ordered a charger(UC-1880) with my new HDS U60GT from batterystation. Should work fine. already have the reflector and ucl.

thanks icebreak!


----------



## Supernam

Where can I find the ROP HI bulb online?


----------



## Delvance

wattsoccurring,

The next best cell i can think of off the top of my head are the Sanyo Eneloop AA's. I'm not sure if they are available in the UK though. If you head over to the "batteries" section of CPF, Silverfox has a stickied thread on NiMH cell shootouts. You'd be able to compare the performance of the eneloop AAs and the CBP1650s there (the difference is quite small, but it is there).

Supernam,

Www.lighthound.com has them. Just goto bulbs, and look for the Pelican #3854 bulb pack.


----------



## simonsays

wattsoccurring said:


> I'm attempting my first ROP (6AA-2D) and have read about the benefits of the CBP1650 batteries over higher capacity batteries re lack of voltage sag.
> Are there any more familiar brands that have an equal/similar performance which might be more readily available worldwide (UK specifically)?
> Just trying to save myself one more transatlantic parcel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers.


 
It really is worth going for the CBP1650's over ordinary 'consumer' cells, they make a big difference to how your light will perform. I have a set of 1650's and a set of Sanyo 2700's. The 2700's are ok with the ROP low bulb but dim noticably after a couple of minutes of using the High bulb
As a UK based flashaholic you *will* get used to transatlantic parcels





Simon


----------



## Supernam

Lighthound is out of 3854 bulbs. =(


----------



## Delvance

Hrmm bummer.

Can't really think of many places that would have them then. Can always just buy directly from pelicans website (i forget the URL) or try a PM to CPF member Fivemega and see if he will sell you a set. He usually sells them with his modified maglites together only though hrmm.


----------



## wattsoccurring

Delvance,
Thanks, again, for your help. 
I hear on the grapevine that Eneloop are due to make an appearance in the UK around the end of October.....just in time for the Christmas sales: what a staggering coincidence 

Simon,
Thanks for the advice. 
_"..As a UK based flashaholic you *will* get used to transatlantic parcels..."_ 
:laughing:
That realisation is beginning to dawn..
CB1650s it is then.
Cheers guys!


----------



## missionaryman

has anyone experienced problems with the 3854 bulbs from Pelican?
Mods feel free to move this to cheers & jeers but I just posted here to see if there's something I was doing wrong first
I have read a few threads talking about dodgy bulbs straight from the pack and I am now on my 5th bulb, here's what's happened to mine so far:

1. the glass capsule released from the ceramic compound and fell out

2. my one year old dropped it onto a sprung hardwood floor from 30cm and the filament broke

3. the filament again kinked then broke after a very small drop

4. the filament simply FELL OFF after less than 1 hours intermittent use, no bumps or drops

Pelican has completely ignored several emails - it seems the only thing worse than their bulb quality is the quality of their customer service


----------



## Delvance

Hey MM mate,

Yeah...i had a hi bulb's filament break clean off from a 20cm unlit drop onto carpet :thinking: . They've also ignored emails from me (regarding another issue though). For me though, on the whole...it seems the HI bulbs are fairly robust. I've only ever burnt one out from usage. All others are going strong except for the one that dropped 20cm onto carpet unlit.


----------



## DUQ

Here's my build, using a Litho medium stipple reflector.


----------



## jar3ds

DUQ said:


> Here's my build, using a Litho medium stipple reflector.


 dang... that looks nice!  beamshots?


----------



## DUQ

Here's two indoor shots down in the basement. About 12 feet away. The first is tight focus and the second is flood. Talk about "wall of light". No outdoor shots yet.


----------



## jar3ds

dang... thats nice.. i bought a FM LOP reflector and i'm sort'a wishing now that I would'a got one like yours...

if i use my LOP reflector it makes my hotspot a ellipse and a nasty beam w/ the ROP HI...

thanks for the beam shots...!


----------



## Pumaman

hey jar,
try some Armour Etch glass etching cream as discussed in another thread, works wonders on a bulb in just a few seconds. let me know if you want any more details and or beamshots.


----------



## jar3ds

thanks pumaman...

where might i pick some of this stuff up @? Thanks!

any links of where its been discussed?


----------



## Delvance

Light sandpaper (with dremel) works too if you don't have the armouretch on hand


----------



## Pumaman

Jar,

here is a link

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=99398

Don't want to hijack this thread so I have added my 2 cents to the frosting thread, check it out.:naughty:


----------



## aares

*Bulbs for ROP*

Are these bulbs correct for the ROP? I hope so cause I just ordered them.


----------



## DonShock

*Re: Bulbs for ROP*

Those are them.


----------



## aares

*Re: Bulbs for ROP*

Ok thanks, BTW if anyone wants to order anything off of opticsplanet.net, enter LDS-5 as your coupon code. It gives you 5% off your entire order w00t!!


----------



## Alin10123

*Re: Bulbs for ROP*

I believe lighthound has these in his store. 
www.lighthound.com

I think his are a few bucks cheaper. Oh well... can't be that huge of a difference after the discount code.


----------



## x2x3x2

*Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

I was wondering if there was any source which sells the metal reflector and battery holder, or even the whole package of extras to build an ROP for a more reasonable price?

I find the $20 for reflector is kinda crazy, its just a metal molded piece costing as much as whole 4D Mag. The 6AA to 2D battery holder costs just as much too.

Feel free to correct me if im missing something in my assumption.


----------



## bimemrboy318

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

Well, the 6AA to 2D battery holder looks pretty involved so the $18 for it IMHO is worth it. I agree the reflector is a bit much. Although the quality of some of the glass lenses vary, they will all work so save a few bucks here. I think the Borafloat is least expensive at $5.


----------



## x2x3x2

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

Is there any other way to run the pelican big d bulbs in some other setups?
How about a ROP in a 2 cell pocket torch form factor?
Like 2x RCR123A at 3.7 each, might it be possible?


----------



## Brighteyez

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

Why don't you just make your own reflector? It should be easy enough to machine one out of aluminum stock, use the Mag reflector as a guide.
While you're at it, you can probably make your own battery holder as well. If you can't figure out how to make a battery holder, I think Modamag sells the components in kit form for about $12.

If you have access to the glass and have the ability to cut it, you could probably make your own lens as well.



x2x3x2 said:


> I was wondering if there was any source which sells the metal reflector and battery holder, or even the whole package of extras to build an ROP for a more reasonable price?
> 
> I find the $20 for reflector is kinda crazy, its just a metal molded piece costing as much as whole 4D Mag. The 6AA to 2D battery holder costs just as much too.
> 
> Feel free to correct me if im missing something in my assumption.


----------



## Brighteyez

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

Have you calculated what the run time would be using 600mAh batteries?



x2x3x2 said:


> Is there any other way to run the pelican big d bulbs in some other setups?
> How about a ROP in a 2 cell pocket torch form factor?
> Like 2x RCR123A at 3.7 each, might it be possible?


----------



## Raybo

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*



x2x3x2 said:


> I was wondering if there was any source which sells the metal reflector and battery holder, or even the whole package of extras to build an ROP for a more reasonable price?
> 
> I find the $20 for reflector is kinda crazy, its just a metal molded piece costing as much as whole 4D Mag. The 6AA to 2D battery holder costs just as much too.
> 
> Feel free to correct me if im missing something in my assumption.



Right you are!

Buy the aluminum stock and put it on a CAM machine (you also need the specs of course), than if you have the resourses you just might have to vacuum coat it.

Hey! this is sounding pretty easy, I just might attemp this myself!

Just being sarcastic........not as cheap as you think, these are specialty items that only a few people make and it costs $ time and sweat.


----------



## Fenris

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*



Brighteyez said:


> Why don't you just make your own reflector? It should be easy enough to machine one out of aluminum stock, use the Mag reflector as a guide.
> While you're at it, you can probably make your own battery holder as well. If you can't figure out how to make a battery holder, I think Modamag sells the components in kit form for about $12.
> 
> If you have access to the glass and have the ability to cut it, you could probably make your own lens as well.




I don't think he deserved that.


----------



## LumenHound

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*



x2x3x2 said:


> Is there any other way to run the pelican big d bulbs in some other setups?
> How about a ROP in a 2 cell pocket torch form factor?
> Like 2x RCR123A at 3.7 each, might it be possible?


RCR123A sized batteries just don't have enough capacity to safely power even the ROP-LOW bulb. Don't risk it.


----------



## Brighteyez

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

He could pound the reflector out on polished steel sheet stock, but the aluminum would probably be easier to work with. 



Fenris said:


> I don't think he deserved that.


----------



## DUQ

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

x2x3x2 have you read this --> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/120462


----------



## x2x3x2

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

It's ok, like i said, i was just assuming comparing the cost side by side.
What i considered before making my assumption was that a full Mag 4C with all its parts for a complete flashlight n cost about as much as the metal reflector or battery holder alone. I beleive in paying for actual value for goods, i just dont like paying premium that much just cos its been set as the nominal price by certain individuals.

I was thinking of skipping the whole Mag host idea, and perhaps using on of the Ultrafire 12P bodies. Can be made to take 2x 18650.
Only thing left is having the Bid D bulbs fit in the Surefire style lamp assemblies form factor, any ideas?

@DUQ
Yup, i started reading the master thread few days back, have been trying for a cheaper alternative since.


----------



## LumenHound

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*



x2x3x2 said:


> I find the $20 for reflector is kinda crazy, its just a metal molded piece costing as much as whole 4D Mag.


You could try using an older metal bodied chrome plated type flashlight that were common in the 50's and first half of the 60's. These flashlights came with metal reflectors and real glass lenses. Browse through what's available at the local garage/yard sales and flea markets. There's a ton of these old flashlights kicking around out there. Just be certain to snag one that has a reflector in very good shape with no rust or flaking chrome. 

Check out the ROP that AW built out of an old brass flashlight here


----------



## DUQ

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

I think the Magcharger reflector may fit into a regular Mag. Not sure though.


----------



## x2x3x2

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

Wow that brass light by AW looks awesome, like something captain nemo would have used!


----------



## Raybo

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*



x2x3x2 said:


> I was wondering if there was any source which sells the metal reflector and battery holder, or even the whole package of extras to build an ROP for a more reasonable price?
> 
> I find the $20 for reflector is kinda crazy, its just a metal molded piece costing as much as whole 4D Mag. The 6AA to 2D battery holder costs just as much too.
> 
> Feel free to correct me if im missing something in my assumption.



I think you might be happier with a 1274, you can still use the stock [email protected] reflector but you will not be able to run it for a long time without resting it.


----------



## Brighteyez

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

One other alternative is to use a 6 cell Mag-Num Star bulb. It's not quite as bright, but you'll be able to use the stock reflector and lens; and it is still a very bright light. You will need to get some battery holders though. If you don't want to spend $18 or whatever they cost, you could use the plastic holders from Litemania (look in the Dealers Forum.)


----------



## x2x3x2

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

ops sorry, slight correction.

Is it possible to screw on the Big D bulbs in place to the G&P assemblies?


----------



## LumenHound

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

The hole in the G&P lamp assembly reflectors is too small in diameter for either the ROP-HIGH or ROP-LOW bulbs to fit through it.

Best to keep it simple. You need to consider a host that originally used a PR based bulb and then work from there.


----------



## majr

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

Drop 2x 18650s ($10-20) in a mag 2c, with a magnumstar 5 or 6 cell bulb ($2-4). Done.


----------



## scott.cr

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*



x2x3x2 said:


> Yup, i started reading the master thread few days back, have been trying for a cheaper alternative since.



I think the ROP *IS* the cheaper alternative. Even if you spent $100 building one, it would be the nicest and brightest light you could buy in that price range. The only thing in that size/brightness range I can think of offhand is the Surefire M4, which will run you at least twice as much.


----------



## KevinL

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

Reflector's probably the only expensive part. 

Borofloat glass lens from Flashlightlens.com - $5

Pack of #3854 bulbs with two bulbs (high/low) per pack - $9 or less from Lighthound

Get your 18650s from him as well, less than $5 each. No battery holder.. well, ok. Go get some garden hose or if you want to be extra fancy, heater hose. Or if you are like me, paper and packing tape. No kidding. 

How much are we looking at? Not much, really. Turns out that the 2C version is the Low Cost version too.


----------



## KevinL

*Re: Bulbs for ROP*

Yup, that's it. #3854. The distinctive sharp tipped high bulb gives it away too.


----------



## mudman cj

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*

I am building a *small* ROP low from a $5 host light - it is an Eveready Contactor 2xAA form factor. You have to use a chisel or something to cut out the plastic ribs inside that make AA batteries fit to make room for 3xCR123As or even better yet 2x17500 Li-ion rechargeables. I am going with 2x17500s because they hold voltage better under load and have greater mAH capacity. These cells are $10 a piece from AW and are available with protection. To run an ROP low you will have to double click though. These cells will not run an ROP high. This light will start to melt if running the higher power bulbs (>10W) since the reflector and lens are plastic, but you could also run a 5 cell Krypton or 6 cell Mag-Num Star bulb with decent results. I got beam artifacts due to the small reflector in the host using the Mag bulbs, but the ROP low is gorgeous! This host is made from a durable plastic and is easily pocketed. 
Total cost for me=$30 + bulb cost (includes shipping on batteries and assumes you have a way to recharge them). When you consider how much the CR123A batteries will dim compared to the Li-ions, how much it costs to buy CR123As over the long run, and how much safer it is to run protected cells in series than primaries I don't understand why more people don't switch to the 17500 cells (unless of course you are using a Mag 2c host that can fit 2x18650s).


----------



## Owen

*Re: Where to get cheap parts for ROP?*



KevinL said:


> How much are we looking at? Not much, really. Turns out that the 2C version is the Low Cost version too.


Yeah, I'm doing the 2C with 2 LG 2600mAh 18650s, fivemega extender and battery sleeve, MOP reflector, and borofloat lens. Even getting parts, and paying shipping from five different places, plus having to buy another Mag, the total cost is under $120. 
<$120 for the practical equivalent of a rechargeable M6 in a handier package. This post has got to be the first time I've seen anybody whining about the price of a custom-made reflector. I don't need a ROP, I'm just building one 'cause for what you get it's dirt cheap.


----------



## REparsed

I’m building another ROP LO as an experiment. I’ve ordered a battery pack of 6 - 1650’s from CheapBatteryPacks.com, complete with wire and tamiya connector.

The mating tamiya connector will be hard wired into the Mag switch with 18AWG silicone wire (the same as used on the battery pack.) and will extend out the tail end of the Mag 2 C host. :thinking:


----------



## KevinL

WOW...

I was just doing some research. The ROP is far older than I thought it was - I was wondering when its first anniversary is. The ROP/LE turns 1 next month (October 15), but the original beast is ANCIENT in terms of flashaholic time. 

Original ROP announcement - 18 FEB 2005!! http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=75801

ROP build was never documented until July: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=89018

The initial thoughts about the LE on 26 August (could call it a feasibility study):
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=93598

The LE learns to fly: 
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=95327


The Original ROP is still kept in my room for cutting through the night..


----------



## blgentry

I want to build an ROP and I think I know what configuration, but I'd like to ask a few questions if someone has the time to answer.

First, my objective in this project is to end up with a very low maintenance, extremely bright light. I'd also like to keep the customization to a bare minimum, so I think the ROP is perfect for me, as it's mostly a "drop in" project.

So here are my quick questions:

1. Platform: I'm thinking I want a 2D mag, mainly for the size. Given that I want this to be very easy to work with is this the right platform in terms of fussing with the batteries, carriers, etc?
2. Batteries. Given my platform choice, it seems like I'll be using 6 AA batteries in AA to D holders. I'm concerned about the batteries holding a charge. In previous experience with AA rechargables, as soon as they left the charger, they started draining, even without a load. In particular, batteries were 100% dead in a couple of weeks. Are there AA batteries I can buy that I can charge and then leave in the light for a month or more and expect to get full output and full run time?
3. Charger. If I go with AAs this is probably less of an issue because I'll just put them in a dedicated multi AA charger. If I go with some sort of soldered stack, what kind of charger should I use? I'm interested in simple, reliable, and safe.

Anything I'm forgetting here? I know custom stuff is never like buying a packaged product, but I'd like to minimize my need to give any of these parts special treatment, especially once it's built and functioning.

Thanks for your help,

Brian.


----------



## mudman cj

If you want the batteries to have a low self discharge rate, then Li-ion would outperform your other options. If they would fit (some AA sized cells do and some don't - I recommend confirming before buying), then you could use 8 14500 Li-ion cells in a 2S4P configuration to get enough current at 7.2V for the ROP. This is pushing the cells to 1.5C, but has been done before. Of course, your Nimh chargers won't work for Li-ions and they are best charged individually to avoid imbalance, so you would need a new charger.

Another way that some choose is to use 2 unprotected 18650s, typically done in a 2C mag. There is plenty of info on these, commonly called ROP LE.

Here is a thread discussing this topic: the last post has another nice link to the ROP LE development thread.


----------



## carbine15

LIthium Ions have a shelf life and go bad after a few years.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I pilfered the 2C from my ROP LE, so I moved it over to a 2D.

I noticed it didn't seem as white as it once did...

But my 18650s were down to 7.70V, so I belive THAT explains it. They are charging even now.


----------



## hawkz

Hi,

I'm doing my ROP build with the following: 
Mag 4D host
ROP Hi bulb
MOP reflector from sandwiche shoppe
Borofloat or Mineral glass lense
6 Sub-C batteries in series held together by small recharging magnets all enclosed within sheets of paper taped so that they'll fit the 4D host. 

Two questions:
1. I have a borofloat lense and a mineral glass lense. Which is better to use--is there even a difference?
2. Are the magnets okay to keep the batteries in series?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Icebreak

1.) borofloat is like pyrex. It handles heat well.

2.) I've got several series HotWires and just good pressure from the tailcap keeps the battery-to-battery contact just fine. Those are C cell Mags and the anode connection is a copper tab. In the D cells it's a little spring so you may need on magnet on the anode (positive) end of your lead battery. If you can run it without the magnets that would be much better for safety's sake.

I've also run Hotwires with magnets and the batteries in a vinyl tube. Didn't have a problem. I prefer not to, though.


----------



## Alin10123

hawkz said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm doing my ROP build with the following:
> Mag 4D host
> ROP Hi bulb
> MOP reflector from sandwiche shoppe
> Borofloat or Mineral glass lense
> 6 Sub-C batteries in series held together by small recharging magnets all enclosed within sheets of paper taped so that they'll fit the 4D host.
> 
> Two questions:
> 1. I have a borofloat lense and a mineral glass lense. Which is better to use--is there even a difference?
> 2. Are the magnets okay to keep the batteries in series?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



If you bought those SubC batteries from CBP, you can always have them shrink wrap them permanetly for you.


----------



## hawkz

Thanks for the responses.

So I take it that it doesn't matter whether I use mineral glass or borofloat? I just bought loose cells from ebay (matched cells). They were half the price, including shipping. Here's the auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330026748441&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=014


----------



## Icebreak

Your buy looks good if it is what it is. Borofloat can handled more temp changes than crystal.


----------



## DogLeg

*Re: Godzilla R.O.P. - 6D Mag*

I'm thinking of building an ROP in a 6D Maglite using 6 10,000mAh D-cell NiMHs. 

Has anyone already done this form-factor?

Are there things I should be concerned about using these big'uns that would be different if I used AAs or 123s?

Size/weight is not an issue.


----------



## Icebreak

That should be alright, craigsharrow. It's a known good combination. I have not done 6D NiMh or even 6C NiMh but I have had success with different sizes of loose Sub C cells. I know that others have done 6 D cell ROPs.

It would be helpful to know the specs on your batteries. Sub cell batteries often perform better than full batteries. This is because they are designed for high discharge rates. That doesn't mean your full D cells won't work fine. If they can handle a 4 Amp draw you're looking at 2hrs + runtime which would be fantastic.

The menu search at the top of the page can be a little tricky to operate but the internal Google search at the top of the page is easy. Search on 6D ROP and you'll get some good hits.

Welcome to CandlePowerForums.


----------



## KevinL

Should be fine, as Icebreak has mentioned, as long as the cells can deliver the juice. I think the original Pelican Big D NiCad light uses six NiCad Ds as well. (never seen one, so don't take my word for it)


----------



## jar3ds

its been done mult. times

(that is 6xD/C Mag running the ROP HI bulb) should get decent runtime


----------



## 700club

Just fired up my ROP for the first time and the bulb seems to have fogged up and turned blue. Not the reflector but the bulb. What does this mean?


----------



## Icebreak

That's a fill gas failure. There are several ways this can happen. Basically the halogen cycle has been interupted and the gaseous tungstan is deposited on the glass envelope.

Is the filament still silvery?
Does it still glow?
What battery set-up are you using?

Check out this Lamp Failure Discussion With Pics.


----------



## 700club

Thanks for the reply. I can not see the filament anymore. Yes it does still glow. I am using 6 sub C NIMH batteries and the pack measured 7.77V when this occured.


----------



## 700club

Here is a pic of the bulb


----------



## Icebreak

Darn. That's a known good combination too.

Were the batteries hot off the charger?

If not, my best guess is that you have particularly good cells, possibly well matched and possibly perfectly charged. If this is the case that filament got just a little too hot for the delicate halogen cycle to continue.

My second guess is that filament may have a thin spot on it that super-heated and fouled up the halogen cycle to continue.

My third guess would be a small glass envelope seal problem that allowed some of the fill gas to escape and be replaced by outside atmosphere.


----------



## 700club

Batteries were charged almost a week ago. I really appreciate your advice in this matter, thank you. I have installed the Low output bulb and my ROP is working just fine. I guess I will have to buy another set of new bulbs.

Thanks Again


----------



## KevinL

WOW!!

Thought it only happened to the Mag85's. Not sure why. I charge and light hot off the charger (ROP is remarkably resistant to instaflash) with HC Sanyo 3600mAHs. Triton clocks off at 8.54V and I light straight away  

Hope you have better luck with your next bulb.


----------



## hawkz

Um, do all ROP's able to start fires? I haven't actually started a fire but if I set my 4D ROP with 6 sub-c batteries pointing up with a sheet of newspaper on top, the paper starts smoking in under 5 seconds. A hole is made in the paper quickly after. 

Anyone want a video? I can make one.


----------



## bobhere

*Looking For Parts ROP*

i been havin so much trouble finding parts such as:
#1 high temp lens i think the gen opinion is AR Coating is best? i saw the borafloat at lighthound but it dont say if its coated or not anyone know?
#2 high temp cammed reflector that will give me the longest throw?
#3 does anyone know how i can add glow dots to a bezel i need to know what powder people are using and then what epoxy and how to mix. sorry for all the questions but im a rookie and tryin to get it done is tough when you dont know what the **** your doing lol. if anyone knows a tutorial i would be happy to read it.


----------



## Paul6ppca

*Re: Looking For Parts ROP*

For bulbs,I got mine from lighthound
For lens and reflector I got mine from lightedge.Longest throw,a smooth reflector.For a lens go with borofloat.I dont think borofloat has AR coating.Its just good at high temps!
I dont know about glow powder.


----------



## LumenHound

*Re: Looking For Parts ROP*

Flashlightlens.com sells coated Ultra Clear Lenses and super tough Borofloat glass lenses that fit the D and C sized Mags.

I'd lean towards the UCL instead of the Borofloat for a ROP build because it allows more light to pass through it and is strong enough to take the heat from the ROP HI bulb.

Fivemega was selling custom made removable cam smooth mirrored reflectors but they are sold out. The only cammed reflectors he has left are the heavy stippled ones and that's not what you want if your after maximum throw.
If you start a "Wanted: metal cammed smooth mirror finish reflector" thread in the Buy/Sell/Trade section you might get lucky and find someone willing to part with one.

I ended up using a camless reflector and locking the bulb pedestal in place. I found that the high brightness of the ROP HI bulb produced more than enough spill light to negate any need for a ugly ringy flood pattern a smooth cammed reflector would give me. 

With a camless reflector you just lock the pedestal and then spin the head clockwise a couple of full rotations to go from tightest spot to narrow flood. 

Camless locked pedastal photo 
locking the pedestal version 2


----------



## bobhere

i only saw the borafloat there didnt see the UCL and next if i want to do more extreme mods to this like use a brighter bulb wich should i stick with then..also does anyone change the switch for high temp or voltage or does stock work fine for all this?


----------



## hawkz

I finally got my hands on newspaper today and started my first flashlight-initiated fire. Do people have success burning newspaper as I do with smaller ROP like ROP LE or 3C ROP?


----------



## bobhere

*ROP Bulb*

how many volts can you throw at the Pelican Bulb the 3854 big d bulb? that is before it goes poof


----------



## DonL

*Re: ROP Bulb*

I'm not sure about all the different configurations, but TTBOMK, you can fire up a fresh recharge in the 2D version. That's a fresh 7.2V with typical 1650 or 2200 rechargables.


----------



## vortechs

*Re: ROP Bulb*



bobhere said:


> how many volts can you throw at the Pelican Bulb the 3854 big d bulb? that is before it goes poof



This question should probably be asked in the Incandescent Forum: over here (but only after reading the ROP thread: here)

I believe the typical advice is 6 NiMH cells (7.2V) or 7 well-rested NiMH cells if you want to overdrive the bulb somewhat. I believe using 7 NiMH cells hot off the charger will  but I haven't tried it myself.

(edit: I see this discussion has been merged with the main ROP thread. Thanks to the admins.)


----------



## bobhere

*Re: ROP Bulb*

hmm gotta figure watts x volts=


----------



## jwl

*Re: ROP Bulb*

I've hit it with 8.4 Volts at the bulb and no problems. That was using 6 D's, which don't sag like AA's.


----------



## jayhackett03

(subscribing)


----------



## Aepoc

Hey there,

I have a 4-C style ROP with six GP2200's as the powerhouse. These batteries are sub-C NIMH, so i decided to use the speedy box (i believe Vanson makes it). The problem is that the GP2200's are 4/5 the length of a normal sub-C battery. They are too small to fit in the charger. 

I have tried Various attempts at making spacers:

aluminum foil
copper pipe
nuts
rare earth magnets

Every attempt has gotten the red led on the charger to light up (this means the battery is charging). I allow the batteries to charge untill the green led goes on (this signlas the end of charging). Every time i put them in my ROP, it lights but dims very shortly after as if the batteries were dead.

I know the charger works because i successfully charged some NIMH AA's. Please help... Any suggestions as far as spacers or 4/5 chargers would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks in advance


----------



## KevinL

We recommend the Maha C777Plus2 as the Official ROP Charger. Now that's a charger I can count on when the chips are down and it absolutely, POSITIVELY, HAS TO WORK. 

BTW, the Triton is a piece of crap.


----------



## Icebreak

Aepoc -

That's the same charger and method I use on several of my hotwires so this is a head scratcher to me.

I use a nut and bolt sheathed in vinyl with magnets on each end. (the vinyl isn't necessary)

Did you use your new cells before charging them?

Have you tried to use the charger to cycle your cells?

At the end of *post #4 in this thread* I explain the spacers in a little more detail and include a hyper link to a discussion about using the Vanson charger.


----------



## Aepoc

Yeah... I put them in my ROP before charging them and they did they same thing they do now. The bulb gets really bright, and then in a matter of secconds it dims to nothing. 

I have tried to cycle them... the red led blinks but never finnishes the cycle (the red light never goes solid to show the decharging is complete and the charging has begun.

The batteries were zapped before i bought them... would this have anything to do with anything... Does it sound like i have a battery problem or a connection problem?


----------



## Aepoc

Icebreak,

could you send me a picture of the nut and bolt combo... I am having trouble picturing it. 

Also... where did you get the rare earth magnets. I bought some expensive ones from radioshack and they aren't even conductive.


----------



## Icebreak

Uh oh. The batteries should be charged by the user before use. The charge they come with is a storage charge. FWIU it's a good level to keep the chemistry fairly stable while not in use.

Not doing this can ruin the cells. Before you give up on them I'd suggest posting the problem in the "Electronics Batteries Included" forum. SilverFox and others know much more than I. They may have a recovery solution for you.

Here's the bolt apart and together. I got the magnets from Emillion. I don't know if he's still selling them. Seems like I saw a magnet BST thread the other day. Also the bent spring, deanodized TC and vinyl tube for holding the batteries. This is for a little Mag 3C ROP 1400.


----------



## Aepoc

LOL...
I knew my patience (or lack there of) was gonna get me into trouble.

So you're pretty sure its the batteries then... Thanks for the tips, the pic, and the forum advice.


----------



## Icebreak

Like the LOL attitude. Can't tell you how much stuff I've burnt, melted, caught on fire and blown up. Heck, with no effort, I can turn a tailcap spring into a filament.

Talk to SilverFox and those guys about your cells. If no joy, see if [email protected] might be able to steer you toward a recovery solution.


----------



## Aepoc

You have to laugh at the stupid things you do... If not, you would just get pissed too often. Thats why building flashlights is only for those truely devoted... those... flashaholics.

I am going to try jumping them... Just waiting for a reply in one of the battery forums... trying to decide what to use as a jumper.

Thanks again


----------



## Stormstaff

Surprised this isn't a sticky


----------



## Alin10123

Stormstaff said:


> Surprised this isn't a sticky



I think it was. But it was unstickied recently.


----------



## vortechs

This ROP thread was stickied for quite a while. It was just recently un-stickied, since now there is a link to it from the new sticky thread at the top of the Incandescents Forum: 

*Incandescent Forum - Threads of Interest* http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140021


----------



## Stormstaff

Ah, cool. Thanks for the info!!!


----------



## PeteBroccolo

I tried building a Mag 2 C ROP Li-Ion, but it didn't seem to work:
- first I used 2 well-rested and somewhat used 18500 cells with the ROP Low and the most I would get was a flicker out of the bulb;
- getting frustrated, I removed the 18500 cells, slid in 3 well-rested and not-used-for-months RCR123A 3.6 v cells, and INSTA-POOFED the ROP Low;
- after removing the now-dead ROP Low, I charged up the previous 2 x 18500 cells, re-installed them, installed the ROP High, and all I got was dark.

On the other hand, I AM impressed with a LMSA601 running on 2 x 18500 in the same Mag 2 C with borofloat lens and HS cammless reflector.

I was even able to squeeze 5 RCR123A 3.6 v cells into my Mag 3 C and MOP cammed reflector to run a KPR180 bulb. While it is better than a standard Mag 3 C or D, it is not much to look at compared to the LMSA601.


----------



## Mikeg23

The ROP-LE uses two 18650s with the low output bulb, maybe the 18500s don't have enough capacity?

As for the RCR123s the pelican bulb is supposed to be a 6V bulb.


----------



## LED BriCK

*Hey carbine15!*



carbine15 said:


> Is it wierd that I'm running 8 hot off the charger sanyo 2300's in my ROP low and it's dim as hell? Switch resistance is very high in military angleheads.


I just now found this post, I hope you're still watching... It looks like you've already done what I'm trying to do. Do you have all stock parts in your anglehead (I'm assuming it's the Fulton)? Is melting plastic an issue with the ROP Lo? Right now I have a 6 cell krypton running off of 8 Eneloops in mine, but I'm thinking the ROP Lo would be brighter even with the switch, which of course the krypton also has to contend with.


----------



## PeteBroccolo

Mikeg23 said:


> The ROP-LE uses two 18650s with the low output bulb, maybe the 18500s don't have enough capacity?
> 
> As for the RCR123s the pelican bulb is supposed to be a 6V bulb.


Yeah, I have read the ROP posts, but thought maybe I read them wrong for the Li-Ion version.

I think I will post the ROP Hi bulb in the Sell or Trade threads, as I want to stick to 34 and 50 mm long li-ion cells.


----------



## Mikeg23

Except that you said the 18500s weren't working with the low bulb. It may be that the 18650s are required for the low bulb.

Getting two 18650s in a Mag 2C isn't hard if you already have it set up for 18500s. The hardest part for me was drilling the CPVC out with a 3/4" drill bit, sounds like you already did that part.


----------



## KevinL

vortechs said:


> This ROP thread was stickied for quite a while. It was just recently un-stickied, since now there is a link to it from the new sticky thread at the top of the Incandescents Forum:
> 
> *Incandescent Forum - Threads of Interest* http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140021



Neat... it's actually a better way than cluttering up everything with stickies. The problem 'too many stickies' is that over time people actually ignore them subconsciously - I have MISSED threads that were sticky precisely because I usually read from the first thread (having already read the stickies and not noticing when a new one was added!)

18500 should work with the low bulb based on amperage and current draws. I clocked the low one at nearly 2 amps, which should be within the 2C limit for 18500. 

Are the cells protected? That may be a problem.


----------



## missionaryman

I need some advice before I spend the money on a battery pack for a new vintage ROP I'm building.

The host is a Wizanrd 5D 3.5" Reflectored chrome flashlight from the 60's, last night I was testing it in this configuration:

2 x 3AA - 2D plastic carriers loaded with 6 x Sanyo 2300 AA and 3 x Duracell D Alkalines (mainly to fill in the gap), a theoretical voltage of 11.7, of course there is voltage sag, internal resistance of the switch (an old metal slide switch that I had to pack with foil to make contact), sets of threads (tailcap & head) before the circuit is completed and the plastic carriers are too tight for the Sanyo's making them not contact properly some times.
With this set up it's giving me about the same colour beam as my 2C 2 x 18650 ROP.

My question is would it flash if I used a stick pack made from 7 x Elite 4500's or do you think there is enough resistance in the light to handle it?
I want a neat shrink wrapped, end-end soldered pack but I only have enough money to try this only once.


----------



## bwaites

The 7 cell pack will more likely than not flash the lamp, BUT...if you do, you could just take one cell off one end or the other, with minimal difficulty.

The setup you are using now, with 6AA cells and 3D cells is NOT giving you 11.7 volts, which would INSTANTLY blow that lamp, and I seriously doubt you have 4+ volts worth of resistance! 

You should be able to rework that switch to allow better contact than what you have.

Bill


----------



## Icebreak

7 SC cells will flash your lamp in a torch with overall fairly low resistance. 6 Elite 4500 cells will drive it beautifully. See post #4 of this thread. You might want to put an extension on your OEM tailcap spring and just use 6 cells.


----------



## carbine15

Just use dummy spacers. YOu dont want to mix NIMH AA with D alkalines. Something will get reverse charged and leak (or explode).


----------



## Icebreak

Thanks to carbine15, I re-read the original post.

DON'T mix chemistries. One type of cell will lose the battle. But you know that. You were just testing the torch.

bwaites may be exactly right and probably is. It could be that your test set-up isn't delivering what it is calculated to deliver. Let's say, for argument sake, your set up *is* delivering close to the calculation.

That you have used 6AA (1.2 x 6) + 3D (1.4 x 3) for ~11.4 Volts and not blown the lamp tells me that your vintage torch has a lot of resistance somewhere. Possibly there are points of contact that are so weak they affect the entire system. So, now I understand the question. Your torch may indeed have such a poor current path that 7 Elite cells wouldn't blow the lamp.

I don't like this idea. I've thrown 14+V and ~2A at a slightly oxidized Kroll switch and melted it. Your 7 cell application would be 9+V and a whopping 4.3A. It may cook whatever is the weak point...lamp holder, tailcap spring or switch.

Those sweet Elites may need a better host. *If* the host is good then 6 Elites will work.


----------



## missionaryman

Thanks guys, I'll go for the 6 cell pack and probably just run a wire from the spring in the cap right to the ribbon in the switch, This will remove some of the resistance out of the way then I can deal with any resistance in the switch or the head contact points. Anyone know what the equivalent of Pro Gold is in Australia?

I have to use this host - last night in testing against my 2C ROP with FM 2" deep reflector it was throwing about twice as much light at 50m - a 3.5" reflector is a brilliant find.


----------



## carbine15

since a D battery is 61.5mm long and a C battery is 50mm long, you should be able to stack 6C cells in a 5D host with 7.5mm (too long) that you could make up for by removing or shortening the tailcap spring. Then you could run 5C alkalines through it with more MAh and less resistance than a battery holder (which should be saved for a 1 or 2D light anyway. Just thinking out loud here. (not really out loud i'm typing.)


----------



## PeteBroccolo

I **FINALLY** got my ROP LE to work:
- Mag 3 C;
- fivemega MOP cammed reflector;
- Pelican 3854 HO bulb;
- 150 mm long piece of PVC pipe as inner liner/adaptor;
- 2 of AW's latest 18650 cells;
- 2 of AW's rare earth magnets and 1 of his 17 mm brass spacers for the DS charger.

It takes a couple of clicks to fire, but it FIRES! It DEFINITELY needs a glass lens!

It may JUST be straight-forward enough of a modification to interest my non-flashaholic partners. Had to retire my KPR120 bulb to make way for this and avoid buying a Mag 2 D.

While I could make the KPR120 work with 3 RCR123A 3.6 v protected unregulated cells in a Mag 3 C, it is not as impressive as the ROP.


----------



## Mikeg23

So you got the big D hi bulb to light with the 18650 batteries. I didn't even try it as I just assumed it would be a waste of time. 

Are you using protected or unprotected batteries?


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I had two unproteced 18650 (A ticking bomb perhaps?) running a Rop Hi in a 2C M*g. It lit first time every time.

I wanted the 2C for a M*gled, so I moved it over to a 2D. Same deal.

I can attest that 6C will fit easy into a 5D light. 5C will go in a 4D etc.

I have a WA01111 running in a Streamlight Excalibre 5D as it has the only reflector that comes close to having a pleasing beam with that 1111!

I imagine 6SC in a 4D light is about the breakover between size/brightness/runtime.

Happy Modding y'all!


----------



## PeteBroccolo

Mikeg23 said:


> So you got the big D hi bulb to light with the 18650 batteries. I didn't even try it as I just assumed it would be a waste of time.
> 
> Are you using protected or unprotected batteries?


If your question was directed to my post, I am using 2 of AW's latest 18650, which are protected.

From what I understand from previous postings, it is not uncommon with protected cells to have to click more than once to get this bulb to fire.

Multi-clicks are frustrating, and may disqualify this from being the type of light my partners would be interested in, but you never know. It IS brigt, and was easy to build.


----------



## Aepoc

My friend had to do the multiple click thing to get his 2-D Mag mod to light. He was running a couple Li-polymer or Li-ion protected batteries and the ROP low bulb. I was unimpressed with the difficulty in getting the bulb to fire. Apparently he was too because he switched back to his old bulb soon after.

Also somebody posted previously that the pelican high bulb is supposed to be a 6v bulb... I am running six 1.2v sub-C's (total 7.2v) in my ROP high and it is bright as ****. First of all is it correct that 6v is the normal running voltage for the ROP high bulb? If so then are there any bad side-effects of running a bulb at a higher voltage?


----------



## Pokerstud

Also somebody posted previously that the pelican high bulb is supposed to be a 6v bulb... I am running six 1.2v sub-C's (total 7.2v) in my ROP high and it is bright as ****. First of all is it correct that 6v is the normal running voltage for the ROP high bulb? If so then are there any bad side-effects of running a bulb at a higher voltage?[/QUOTE]


Over driving a bulb shortens its life span, and squeezes out that last lumen. As flashaholics, this is what we do, this is who we are. :santa:


----------



## KevinL

Pretty much what Pokerstud said. You can run with minus one cell if you wish to, at the cost of lumens but with the benefit of increased bulb longevity.


----------



## Aepoc

Is there any mod that will prevent the ROP high from draining NiMH completely? I turn the light off when it dims but the batteries still seem to be drained completely. I have blown through two sets of cells and its starting to get expensive.


----------



## mudman cj

You could use a hotdriver, which will shut off without warning when the battery pack voltage dips to 10% (IIRC) below set voltage.


----------



## Aepoc

Where would I find a hot driver, and would it be a difficult install?

Also any suggestions for spacers for my charger and where to find them?


----------



## mudman cj

A hotdriver isn't too difficult too install, but it's a good idea to look over the instructions first. And it's easier to install than to build, but they cost more pre-built of course. It's basically a replacement switch assembly with a KIU bi-pin socket with the hotdriver circuit installed to limit the lamp voltage to a desired level - as long as it's not too far from the battery pack voltage. If there is a large difference in Vbat and Vlamp, then you could use a PWM circuit made by Winny, but there were not many made with no plans to make more.

Charger spacers could be wadded balls of aluminum foil, or brass cylinders can purchased from AW to make a 50 mm long cell fit in a bay sized for a 65 mm long cell.


----------



## DogLeg

OK, I built both an ROP and a Mag85, but without hot drivers.

QUESTIONS:
1. What are sources for pre-built hot drivers?
2. Where do I get detailed instructions on how to install them?
3. Do the ROP and Mag85 require different hot drivers?

Thanks,
DogLeg


----------



## mudman cj

They are sold through AWR at this thread. It contains links to instructions for the DIYer to build one, but installation of a pre-built one is as easy as replacing the stock switch. A hotdriver can be reset to a different Vbulb, so you can use it for a different application later. 

Going from ROP to 1185 requires the adjustment of a potentiometer with a screw driver (instructions for this are also found in the first link. The exceptions are if you ever intend to use it for really high power (100W+) then it has to be built to handle that, and if you want to use the IRC bulbs then the pedestal has to be adjusted when built to position those bulbs properly.


----------



## Aepoc

I have noticed that the beam on my ROP is significantly more yellow then my surefire e2d. Is there anything I can do to whiten it up? I am running 6 4/5 sub c's.


----------



## mudman cj

I don't want to repeat all of the instructions here, but you can search for these "resistance fixes" for both the switch and tailspring to increase the voltage at the bulb. They basically involve reducing resistance by adding better conduction paths. This will result in the brighter and whiter beam you seek. If the switch is corroded you may also need a treatment of DeOxit cleaner. A temporary solution is to take it apart and at least clean the contacts like the long slide that maintains contact to the bulb holder as it is raised and lowered in focusing.


----------



## Mike Iver

I had a few questions on the ROP. I currently have several vintage lights that I run with AA NIMHs. I have read here that you use 6 cells, 7 rested cells. Does this apply to both bulbs. If I run lo or hi bulb (6 cells) hot off of charger will I blow either bulb? If I run 7 well rested cells lo or hi will I blow the bulbs? What defines well rested a day, a week? The reason that I ask is that the low bulb seems very bright, but the hi bulb dosen't seem to be much brighter certainly not double. 
I purchased a 6d vintage light that I want to make a ROP. I have to use the plastic bulb holder in this light to bring the tip of the bulb below the reflector. Will I melt the bulb holder with the hi bulb. If so how long would it take? I mean could I run the light for 15 minutes? This flashlight came with an extender for 7 batteries. Should I run it at 6 or 7 and with the hi or low bulb.


----------



## LumenHound

6 AA sized hot off the charger cells will *not * instaflash the HI or LOW bulb.

7 comercial variety AA sized rested cells will *not* instaflash the HI or LOW bulb.

If you can, use 7 AA sized rested cells. You'll get more lumens out the front and the beam will be closer to white. The Pelican bulbs are surprisingly robust.

You shouldn't have any problems with AA sized cells rested for 8 hours or more.


----------



## nightstalker101

Is it safe to run the Low output ROP bulb on 2 X 17500's (1100mh)? Thanks

Nighstalker101


----------



## eggoo

mudman cj said:


> I don't want to repeat all of the instructions here, but you can search for these "resistance fixes" for both the switch and tailspring to increase the voltage at the bulb. They basically involve reducing resistance by adding better conduction paths. This will result in the brighter and whiter beam you seek. If the switch is corroded you may also need a treatment of DeOxit cleaner. A temporary solution is to take it apart and at least clean the contacts like the long slide that maintains contact to the bulb holder as it is raised and lowered in focusing.



I also have a ROP, how do I reduce resistance on the tailspring? Thanks.


----------



## LumenHound

Solder a length of braided solder wick from the bottom loop of the spring to the top loop of the spring. The current path will become the much lower resistance copper instead of the steel spring.


----------



## eggoo

LumenHound said:


> Solder a length of braided solder wick from the bottom loop of the spring to the top loop of the spring. The current path will become the much lower resistance copper instead of the steel spring.



Thanks. Will try.


----------



## fishx65

I found an easy fix for the spring tension issue! I picked up a metal spring at the local hardware store that fits the tail cap of a 2C perfect. It's about 3 inches long and has much smaller diameter wire. I was gonna shorten it but there is no need to. I just had to bend the top coil a little so it would make contact. I'm sure one could be found for D sized bodies also.

FishX


----------



## eggoo

thanks fishx65 for your suggestion.


----------



## X-or

Hi all!

I just recieved the parts for my ROP 2D..

Im going to use 6AA adapter.. I just purchased a 8pack of Eneloops and I have a new 8pack of La Crosse 2300 cells that came with the new charger.. (a lot of purchases lately)

What bulb H/L do you recomend with these cells and what runtime can I expect (without destroting the cells).. 

I have read a whole lot of post regarding this, but Im still to new to know what C-rating etc the cells have..

So to sum it up:
Can i use both HOLA/LOLA with LaCrosse 2300?
Can i use both HOLA/LOLA with Eneloops?
Runtime on the above without destroying something?
What do I need to consider with this setup?

Sorry for all questions, I hope you remember when you yourself was a newbee 

Eagerly awaiting your answers while Im refreasing the cells (this is also something new to me.. A lot of learning to do)


----------



## X-or

And one more question:

I just had to try it, so I used primaries just for a few seconds.. How long can I try with these without them overheating or blowing up? Or is that a big NO NO even in short bursts?


----------



## thekobk

how well would this work with a 5 cell mag? I have 2 5 cell mag's that are begging to be modded but dont know the best way to do it.


----------



## PeteBroccolo

PeteBroccolo said:


> If your question was directed to my post, I am using 2 of AW's latest 18650, which are protected.
> 
> From what I understand from previous postings, it is not uncommon with protected cells to have to click more than once to get this bulb to fire.
> 
> Multi-clicks are frustrating, and may disqualify this from being the type of light my partners would be interested in, but you never know. It IS brigt, and was easy to build.


I figured out that 1 of the cells was not functioning, so the ever-upstanding AW kindly replaced it for me.

I now have my Mag 3 C ROP LE running with the 3854 HO, borofloat, HS, a couple of button magnets, a 17 mm brass spacer and a piece of PVC drain pipe as an adaptor. Takes maybe 2 clicks at first, then fires up every click thereafter.

I like this kind of set-up - a bit expensive, obviously, but very simple. If I can ever get a deep tail-cap, I would use a Mag 2 C. I might even renounce the 3 C and all D form factors!!!!!


----------



## missionaryman

thekobk said:


> how well would this work with a 5 cell mag? I have 2 5 cell mag's that are begging to be modded but dont know the best way to do it.


 If it's a 5 D cell then 6 C cells will fit straight in and run it for an hour on high beam


----------



## thekobk

Thanks missionaryman. I wonder if 6 aa's will fit inside some tubeing?


----------



## Aepoc

mudman cj:

Do you know where I can find the mag wrench to remove the switch? I want to do the switch bypass as well.


----------



## Aepoc

mudman cj:

Do you know where I can find the mag wrench to remove the switch? I want to do the switch bypass as well.


----------



## Aepoc

sorry for the double post... cpf needs to update their server... too slow


----------



## ExZeRoEx

A camless reflector means that it can't be focused right?

If so, what kind of state will the beam be in? throw or spill?
(Sandwich Shoppe ones)


----------



## bwaites

Camless reflectors can be focused, just not as rapidly as cammed reflectors. 

The threads on the head allow the reflector to me moved up and down.

Bill


----------



## ExZeRoEx

Ok, cool, thanks.

So its basically focused by the unscrewing/screwing on/off of the head?


----------



## bwaites

Yes.

Bill


----------



## mudman cj

The wrench used to remove the switch is a hex key wrench, also known as Allen head. For the mag you need a 5/64 in. I also find that a 2 mm wrench works. There is only a 0.0015 in. difference in their sizes measuring across the flat faces. They are available at most stores carrying tools, but sometimes only as a set. Good hardware stores sell them individually; so does McMaster-Carr. I like the folding sets of ball-end wrenches, except in cases where you need a lot of torque, because you can use them from an angle (up to 25 degrees IIRC).


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Do the relatively newer C lights switch come out the same way? I felt sure I turned the ground screw out but the switch wouldn't move.

Sorry I can't give SN, as it's nicely wrapped up in "Sport Tape" for comfy grip!


----------



## mudman cj

Yes, I just modded a new C mag and it used the same wrench. You need to turn it multiple revolutions, and if trying to come out the business end you will have to remove the C clip first. Here is a step-by-step guide to mag disassembly.


----------



## Brighteyez

Make sure you've reached the setscrew (it's on the bottom of the switch from the switch button, it's not the hole under the switch. I think there's been a few people who have turned the wrench in that hole endlessly and found that it does no good  Guide the hex wrench through the hole at the switch button and keep going until it bottoms out. Turn it a bit until it seats into the allen screw. If you feel resistance, then it's probably already seated. 

And download that PDF file from Maglite that *mudman cj* suggested. It's illustrated and should answer all of your questions (but it doesn't tell you that the setscrew is at the bottom of the switch.)



PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Do the relatively newer C lights switch come out the same way? I felt sure I turned the ground screw out but the switch wouldn't move.
> 
> Sorry I can't give SN, as it's nicely wrapped up in "Sport Tape" for comfy grip!


----------



## PeteBroccolo

PeteBroccolo said:


> I **FINALLY** got my ROP LE to work:
> - Mag 3 C;
> - fivemega MOP cammed reflector;
> - Pelican 3854 HO bulb;
> - 150 mm long piece of PVC pipe as inner liner/adaptor;
> - 2 of AW's latest 18650 cells;
> - 2 of AW's rare earth magnets and 1 of his 17 mm brass spacers for the DS charger.
> 
> It takes a couple of clicks to fire, but it FIRES! It DEFINITELY needs a glass lens!
> 
> It may JUST be straight-forward enough of a modification to interest my non-flashaholic partners. Had to retire my KPR120 bulb to make way for this and avoid buying a Mag 2 D.
> 
> While I could make the KPR120 work with 3 RCR123A 3.6 v protected unregulated cells in a Mag 3 C, it is not as impressive as the ROP.


I found out that one of these cells was defective, and the ever-generous AW replaced it for me, gratis. Now this light fires up on the second click. I added a borofloat lens and all is well - and VERY bright!


----------



## wattsoccurring

post moved


----------



## Aepoc

I was partying tonight... had the lights out... my 4-c rop was doing fine and then i notices some yellowing. I took the batteries out to swap them with some fully charged 4/5 cp22000's. It was then that i noticed that one of them was on fire... yes on fire. I will try and post some pics tomorrow... I just thought somebody might like to know. Any info as to what caused this would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## carbine15

high resistance on one spring adjacent to the cell, or high resistance within one cell (bad battery) can casue a single cell to become "thermaly unstable and begin to oxidize." (catch fire).

Lucky you weren't using Lithiums my man. Or you'd be holding a roman candle buring at 1000 degrees.


----------



## Aepoc

Carbine 15

My cells are only about two months old (if that). Is it likely that one would be dead already? My charger is supposed to be able to detect dead cells (it didn't tell me that any were dead). If a cell is in fact dead do you think that cheapbatterypacks.com would exchange them?

I just measured the voltage on the cell that caught on fire... 0v... just as I suspected. This means that it is dead right?

The cell looks in tact except for a couple of charred marks and a melted wrapper... what would happen if i put it back into my light with five fully charged sub-c's (not that I am going to do this... I just want to know what will happen.)

Lastly, if i reduced the resistance in the tail-spring and the switch by doing the bypasses mentioned in a previous post, would it make this incident less likely to occur?

thanks a bunch


----------



## carbine15

0 volts, Yeah that cell is friggin toast! Do not re-insert the dead cell. It's missing it's wrapper now and is no longer insulated. Even though the interior of the mags is annodized, it still could short. If you did re-insert the batteries you'd have a heat generator in the mag as soon as you turn it on you'd be back where you were with flames and smoke and poop. Don't do that okay? The fumes probably aren't very good for you.

If you can seperate the pack use your charger to run diagnostics as well as charge discharge tests on them individually to ensure they didn't suffer before re-using them. It looks like the 0 volt cell is a gonner. Wheather it was a bad cell or not I can't say. If I had to guess I'd say it was undercharged or otherwise weak and suffered a reverse charge while in use. If you bought them from a reputable seller within 3 months they should be able to help you by sending you a replacement cell. 

In this application it's best to have matching cells, and to condition them before all out use. That is, to charge and discharge them equally for a cycle or two so they don't get the idea to reverse charge and detonate. Bypassing any resistance not directly associated with the battery pack will not help in this case. The resistance of (and between) the batteries is at fault for the problem, not the resistance of the tailcap or the switch or the bulb for that matter unless it genterated enough heat to kill one of the cells. 

Which cell in the series failed? Where was it located? By the head? The tail? What did the other cells read as far as voltage? Were the other cells equal in their remaining charge?


----------



## Aepoc

I am not sure where the bad cell was (I was kindof drink at the time). I think it might have been by the tail because there were no burn marks or melted plastic on the switch/battery connection.

The other batteries all read 1.4v (I think error my multimeter is the cause for the high voltage). They all measured the same voltage. 

Voltage is the only measurement for charge right?


----------



## carbine15

voltage is a good starting place but there is voltage under load (varying loads) and total current potential. Since the cells are all the same open-voltage is a good indicator of charge. Open voltage is voltage under no load. 1.4 volts means that they are still pretty full. If the cell that failed was touching the tail spring and only failed because it got too hot (due to high resistance in the spring) then I'd highly recomend that you do the lowered resisance modification to that area. Desoldering braided copper is the best thing to use. Leave plenty of slack so there's no way it'll come undone by movement.


----------



## Aepoc

The charred part of the battery is the positive end.

If the tail spring were responsible then wouldn't the charred part of the battery be the negative part?

I think your first explanation might be correct. A lesser charge in that battery. 

I haven't been impressed with the performance of my speedy box. It seems to have a mind of its own at times: saying that the battery is charged when I just took it out of the flashlight (w/ very yellow beam).

Any suggestions as to a new charger to get for my 4/5 NiMH sub-C's? I don't want to have to use spacers... that is one of my current problems i believe.


----------



## ExZeRoEx

I tried using two of Litemania's 3AA to 1D converters in a 2D mag and it doesn't even start up. Any idea why? With two regular Ds it works, so I'm guessing it's not the bulb.

Oh, and for some reason when I hooked up the charger to the two of them it didn't charge, or at least no lights came on...


----------



## hburner

sounds like you are not making contact within the holder. Use a mutimter and keep moving the batts around until it reads whatever it should. (depends on the number of cells you have in the holder)


----------



## Brighteyez

Do you have some means of measuring the voltage out of the battery carriers? You should be getting about 3.9-4 V or around there with charged batteries. If both battery carriers are at the correct voltage level, then I only know of one thing that will cause what you are experiencing. The spring in a Mag switch does not extend far enough to reach the positive pole on the battery carrier. The best solution is to remove the switch from the body and then stretch the spring a bit (don't get carried away  ). 

Now if you have batteries that are not charging, that could be the other cause as well, but that will be evident when you measure the voltage on the battery carriers.



ExZeRoEx said:


> I tried using two of Litemania's 3AA to 1D converters in a 2D mag and it doesn't even start up. Any idea why? With two regular Ds it works, so I'm guessing it's not the bulb.
> 
> Oh, and for some reason when I hooked up the charger to the two of them it didn't charge, or at least no lights came on...


----------



## ExZeRoEx

I just bought one of fivemega's battery carriers, they are finally back in stock, YAY! Hopefully that will get here soon. Also, I don't have any kind of tool s to measure current or voltage.


----------



## Brighteyez

You can pick up a low cost digital VOM generally for less than $20 (I think Sears had one for about $12 last week.) If you've got dead batteries, Fivemega's battery holder won't do you any good (you can send it to me  ) and you'll still need to replace the batteries; it would probably be a good idea to get something to check the batteries (and to check for resistance and continuity) just so that you can isolate issues as you encounter them. 



ExZeRoEx said:


> I just bought one of fivemega's battery carriers, they are finally back in stock, YAY! Hopefully that will get here soon. Also, I don't have any kind of tool s to measure current or voltage.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Definatly get a cheapy multimeter! And learn how to use it!

I catch battery problems early by using one of two on my desk!


----------



## ExZeRoEx

I guess I could invest in one of those, any sites that sell one for cheap? I don't have a car at the dorms so buying online would probably be the best option for me right now.


----------



## Mike Iver

I just found a cheap LED flashlight at the store that uses AAA adapters identical to the AA adapters that Litemania sells. Does anyone have any experience using AAA for an ROP in a 2C light?


----------



## Brighteyez

I think the battery carriers from Dollar Store LED lights were mentioned in another thread, and there was some talk of it. I personally just wouldn't have a use for it given the short run time from the AAAs and the ROP Lo bulb or even a Mag-Num Star bulb. You'd probably be better off using 18500 LIon batteries in it for a little better run time.

Ideally, there would be an affordable 1.2 inch extender that could be attached to a 2C body to enable it to use 18650 or 18670 batteries. 



Mike Iver said:


> I just found a cheap LED flashlight at the store that uses AAA adapters identical to the AA adapters that Litemania sells. Does anyone have any experience using AAA for an ROP in a 2C light?


----------



## fishx65

Mike, I've been using AAAs in my 2C with those cheapo adapters. It works pretty good with rechargeables but Alks can't supply enough voltage. I use the Mag 5 cell krypton bulb. It is a tiny bit brighter with 3 123s. I also had to use a lighter spring from the hardware store to get the tailcap to screw on. If you don't want to go with Lithium Ion or burn through 123s rechargeable AAAs are a very nice option. One word of caution, put some tape on those adapters were the metal sticks out on the sides cuz they can make contact with the Mag body and cause a short. 

FishX


----------



## nightstalker101

Brighteyez said:


> I think the battery carriers from Dollar Store LED lights were mentioned in another thread, and there was some talk of it. I personally just wouldn't have a use for it given the short run time from the AAAs and the ROP Lo bulb or even a Mag-Num Star bulb. You'd probably be better off using 18500 LIon batteries in it for a little better run time.
> 
> Ideally, there would be an affordable 1.2 inch extender that could be attached to a 2C body to enable it to use 18650 or 18670 batteries.


 
I feel the "affordable" solution is deanodizing the bottom of the tail cap and adding some kind of spacer to the bottom (like a piece of foam wraped in tin-foil). This way you don't have to extend the light at all.


----------



## elt1

Hi,
Wondering if someone older & wiser could check my homework...:thinking:

Going to do my first ROP HI 2D [email protected] mod - actually first mod ever...

My checklist:

-2D maglite
-pelican big D FL-3854 (hi&lo)
-52.1mm borofloat lens
-camless M2 Smooth (SMO) Reflector
- 2D to 8AA Battery Holder 
-planning to use 7X Sanyo AA rechargables 2500mAh & a dummy


From what I read the recharges should work if rested?

ANything I missed or should do differently?

Advice much appreciated....


----------



## LumenHound

You need to add to the list whatever it is you'll be using to wipe the silly grin off your face at the end of the first 25 minute run.  

The cells you have selected will only fit 4 wide safely in a quad bored 2D. If you are using a stock 2D then you will likely tear the outer wrapper of the Sanyo 2500's when you slide them into the battery tube for the first time.
Consider using the slimmer Sanyo Eneloop 2000maH instead. They will fit 4 wide without any label tearing. 
Also, the inside diameter of a black 2D is ever so slightly smaller than any of the colored 2D Mag versions so if you don't care about color then maybe you should consider a red or blue 2D Mag. The extra room inside the tube helps when going with a 4 wide battery configuration.

Make sure the hole in the reflector is large enough for the ROP HI bulb to fit.
The hole in the M2 is 0.300 of an inch but some were enlarged slightly as a special order. For the ROP HI bulb to fit you will need to enlarge the hole a smidgen to 0.320 of an inch. The ROP LOW bulb is slightly smaller in diameter and fits in the 0.300 hole witthout trouble. 
Enlarging the hole yourself is very easy to do and takes less than minute.

Rest your fresh off the charger cells for 4 hours or so before you use them to prevent instaflashing the bulb. Think of it as a charge them before lunch and use them after dinner sort of thing.


----------



## elt1

THanks for the advice Lumenhound,

I see that the Sanyo eneloop AAs are rechargeable - sweet. :naughty: Should I still use the same power config? (7AA & 1 dummy) 

I'm debating whether or not to go to a 6AA to 2D battery holder to deal with the tube size but if I've read correctly there is a bit longer runtime with the extra batt? Or is it merely brighter?

Thanks again!


----------



## jimjones3630

Whoo smoking batteries! That's some torch. 

I tried my first mod. M*g 5c with 6 3800 sub C's. Bored out tail cap, deanodizing the bottom of the tail cap, and shorten tail spring. Did the switch fix, pro gold contacts, switch resistance fix http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=99710.

Now it blowen 2 ROP Ho's fresh charge or over night rested pack with 8.02v
but the Lo's work.

Seems like I need more resistance in the switch?? Or add a resistor in the switch?? Read somewhere someone wired in 22 ga wire in the switch to limit inital rush of 4amps with the RoP Ho.

Any help appreciated. Jim


----------



## LumenHound

The nice thing about the Sanyo Eneloops vs the Sanyo 2500 cells is that the Eneloops don't suffer from self discharge like the 2500's do. It's nice to know that you could charge up a flashlight with Eneloops in it and know that 3 months later you will still have 88% of a full charge in the cells.
Check out the Eneloop self discharge thread. It's good reading.
Also, take a look at this Sanyo 2500 extra fast selfdischarge thread.

The seven cell configuration is popular because the extra voltage provided by the seventh cell compensates for the normal voltage drops that you get with a stock Mag's tail spring, switch assembly, and spring loaded sliding bulb pedastal without the need of pulling the flashlight apart and fussing with the individual parts.
Seven cells is a no soldering iron and contact cleaner solution that's plug and play.

What I find nice about going the 7 cell route is that your not stuck on a permanent 6 cell set up. The 8 cell battery holder gives you the option of running 6, 7, or 8 cells and it allows for more than a dozen popular bulb/run time choices. An 8 cell holder will also give you a easy upgrade path if you find later on that you'd like something brighter than the ROP HI bulb. Pop in 8 cells and run a WA 1164 bulb like what Fivemega came up with in this group buy. 1000 lumens out the front for the first minute or 2 then a strong steady 900 lumens for most of the run on Eneloops.
A charger like this one would work well for a 6, 7, or 8 cell pack.

A seven "consumer brand" cell ROP will be very close to the limit of the bulb. Very bright and white. You can get similar brightness from 6 high current cells like the CBP1650 AA cells but you do give up some run time if you go that route. The high current cells will not have as much voltage sag at the ROP HI's 4+ amp load as a normal consumer brand cell will so they will get the ROP bulb going nicely.
Check out the 6 cell CBP1650 AA 7.2 volt ready made pack for the 2D Mag thread.


----------



## Ralls

Since we're on the topic of batteries, the CBP1650's are no longer available from cheapbatterypacks.com and have been replaced by IB2000's that they claim are better but so far are untested by anybody here. I'm just about to put together my first ROP and I think that I am going to go with the Titanium 1800's from Amondotech since they performed well in the NiMH shootout on the batteries sub-forum. The Titaniums are also cheaper--$1.85 vs. $2.75!


----------



## VF1Jskull1

finally got my 6AA-2D adapter yesterday and completed my [email protected]/ROP setup...

I have the dual function MOP reflector from fivemega, a borofloat lens (installed in my red mag2D from 2 years ago), gold ceramic bi-pin socket (for bi-pin wa 1111's) and 6 x Energizer 2650 NiMh rechargables.... 

I tried the wa 1111 first and was disappointed by the output.... faint yellow, more like orange... a lot brighter than stock 2D... after having it on for a few minutes, i took a look at the bulb and noticed it was clouded up in gray smoke or something... weird... does this usually happen???

Then i took batteries out to recharge to run the ROP bulbs (sucks to undo 6AA-2D adapter just to recharge batteries, now i gotta get that multi-cell charger now)... once battery charger indicated solid green light, pulled the batteries and re-assembled battery back. Installed the ROP Low and hit the money button and WHOLLA!! What a bright white light it was.... had it on for a minute or two then took it outside... yep, this thing throws and has usable sidespill too...

compared it to my wolfeyes M90-13V and the ROP's hotspot was more intense...me likes... unfortunately, i haven't tried the ROP Hi bulb yet... will do that tonight.

The ROP Low is quite bright to me. I'm puzzled about the wa 1111 bulb though...

Anyways, just thought I'd share.


----------



## carbine15

Thank you for sharing I'm glad you got yours working. I have not had much luck in getting a focused beam with my ROP. I think the fillament is just too long. I use a 5 cell magstar bulb with 6Nimh cells and though its not as bright as the rob bulb (not even close), it focuses like a lazer, is just as white, and out throws everything I've got. It's my throw master until I can afford that samsclub HID spotlight.


----------



## VF1Jskull1

LumenHound said:


> 6 AA sized hot off the charger cells will *not * instaflash the HI or LOW bulb.
> 
> 7 comercial variety AA sized rested cells will *not* instaflash the HI or LOW bulb.
> 
> If you can, use 7 AA sized rested cells. You'll get more lumens out the front and the beam will be closer to white. The Pelican bulbs are surprisingly robust.
> 
> You shouldn't have any problems with AA sized cells rested for 8 hours or more.



That's the answer i was looking for.


----------



## tussery

I got my Sanyo NiMH cells in today and just put a quick charge on them and threw them into the ROP and I have to say they make a huge difference over the akalines I had in it temporarily. I love this ROP setup.


----------



## bwaites

I have been running the IB2000's in Mag11's and 6 of them make the '11 very bright and white, both brighter and whiter than the Eneloops.

Bill


----------



## robm

> I got my Sanyo NiMH cells in today and just put a quick charge on them and threw them into the ROP and I have to say they make a huge difference over the akalines I had in it temporarily. I love this ROP setup.


I was impressed with 6 NiMH AAs and then tried with 2 x 18650 - makes a big difference - especially with the HOLA


----------



## Brighteyez

Have you changed the reflector? It is kind of a tradeoff though, you can change the reflector to smooth out the beam but you'll lose throw, or you can put up with the ugly output at close distances and get more throw (the rings and artifacts that you see on a wall a few feet away are not present at real working distances. The two common production lights that I have that outthrow the 5 cell bulb with 6 NiMH batteries are the Ultra Stinger and the MagCharger. That combination does outthrow the SL20 series lamp assemblies.



carbine15 said:


> Thank you for sharing I'm glad you got yours working. I have not had much luck in getting a focused beam with my ROP. I think the fillament is just too long. I use a 5 cell magstar bulb with 6Nimh cells and though its not as bright as the rob bulb (not even close), it focuses like a lazer, is just as white, and out throws everything I've got. It's my throw master until I can afford that samsclub HID spotlight.


----------



## bwaites

My ROP easily out throws my Mag Charger 1160, even in an LOP reflector vs a smooth reflector.

As for the 18650 being brighter than the 6AA versions, that is totally dependant on which AA cells you are using. 

The 1800 AA cells from Amondotech, and the 2000 cells mentioned above match my unprotected LG 18650's on the ROP and 1111.

Bill


----------



## robm

> As for the 18650 being brighter than the 6AA versions, that is totally dependant on which AA cells you are using.



The AAs are Hybrios - I think the current for the HOLA is a bit much for them. The 18650 are Ultrafire 2400mah unprotected. 
It could also be the 3aa-d holders (Litemania) have significant resistance.

But either way it sill put out a lot of light


----------



## VF1Jskull1

are the wa1111's suppose to cloud up in gray color????


----------



## Icebreak

No.

It's possible the atmosphere (fill gas) in the envelope became compromised during the first use. This is likely due to an envelope failure. The gaseous tungsten in the atmosphere transformed to a tungsten oxide and adhered to the glass. I haven't yet figured out what form of tungten is white but some of us are working on it.

A photo would help.

Some speculation, theories, facts and conclusions can be found in the "a race to failure" thread.

I hope this was of some help.

- Jeff


----------



## VF1Jskull1

Icebreak said:


> No.
> 
> It's possible the atmosphere (fill gas) in the envelope became compromised during the first use. This is likely due to an envelope failure. The gaseous tungsten in the atmosphere transformed to a tungsten oxide and adhered to the glass. I haven't yet figured out what form of tungten is white but some of us are working on it.
> 
> A photo would help.
> 
> Some speculation, theories, facts and conclusions can be found in the "a race to failure" thread.
> 
> I hope this was of some help.
> 
> - Jeff



Thanks... I've seen a pic of such an occurance on this forum before just don't remember where and wasn't sure it was suppose to happen with said bulb.

Both ROP bulbs stays clear so I'd assume something was bad just not how bad... lucky i pulled the CPF usual and got 2.. hopefully the second won't go bad on me.

Man I love this Mag 2D ROP.


----------



## vortechs

VF1Jskull1 said:


> finally got my 6AA-2D adapter yesterday and completed my [email protected]/ROP setup...
> 
> I have the dual function MOP reflector from fivemega, a borofloat lens (installed in my red mag2D from 2 years ago), gold ceramic bi-pin socket (for bi-pin wa 1111's) and 6 x Energizer 2650 NiMh rechargables....
> 
> I tried the wa 1111 first and was disappointed by the output.... faint yellow, more like orange... a lot brighter than stock 2D... after having it on for a few minutes, i took a look at the bulb and noticed it was clouded up in gray smoke or something... weird... does this usually happen???


I had a similar experience with a brand new ROP HI bulb (on the third ROP I built). When I first tried the light, the bulb produced a yellow-orange output that was much less bright than expected; when I looked at the bulb it was clouded with gray. I tried another ROP HI bulb and it worked fine. I assume it was just a bad bulb. I wonder how often that occurs.


----------



## VF1Jskull1

finally got to install 2nd wa1111 in my Mag2D ROP setup... a wall of flood light and some artifacts to boot... even with a cammed (dual function version) MOP reflector... couldn't focus it to get a bright hotspot like what the ROP's are capable of... albeit the overall output of wa1111 seems slightly brigther than the ROP Low on a ceiling bounce test... all this on the same configuration and bulbs swapped within a minute or two of lite on lite off monkeying... wa1111 pins does have some play in the fivemega gold bi-pin socket... i'm currently using 6x energizer 2650 mAH cells in a 6AA-2D adapter from fivemega. Love the multicurrent smart chager too especialy fivemegas charging plug... hated dissassembling the adapter just to charge the batteris....

now with the options i have i'm happy... this mag2d mod definitely outclasses my wolfeyes M90-13V in terms of overall brightness/output and throw but due to running NiMh cells, i'm sure the runtime and the self-discharge isn't up to the li-ion powered wolfeyes...


----------



## paulsl

I am getting all the parts and am going to use a custom aero stick from BatteriesWholsale (6 1/2D's, 4,000mah) for a 4D cell Mag. Bulbs will be here next week from Action Lights next week. Boro lens, reflector, etc. are being ordered.

Two questions: Will I have to scrape the inner end cap to get rid of the anodization in this configuration and I haven't seen anything more necessary for the heat. I'm a newbie but I don't need anything else especially to take care of the heat like in a Magcharger (mica) or other Mag hotwires like the 1111 or 1185 (Kiu Kit)?

I can't wait but want to do it right. This and M*g60 will be my first mods besides some other simple bulb swapping.

Thx for any help and comments. This forum is too much.

The more I learn the less I feel I know.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Mica Shields are nice when using stock MC bulb fixture. When using FM or KIU stuff I don't believe it is neccesary.

And yes, you'll probably need to de-anodize the end cap.


----------



## paulsl

Deanodize the tailcap but not cut down the spring in a 4D cell? Is that right or will the spring need to be cut?

Thx much.


----------



## Icebreak

Paulsl -

I couldn't find your pack but 6 1/2 Ds should be about 220mm. The 4D Mag is designed to hold (of course) four D cells which would be 240mm. I don't know for sure but it's possible the pack might be a little short. If so, a combination of one machine bolt 2 or 3 nuts and 2 or 3 washers can be used to make an extension. I've also used 10g electrician's household wire. I stripped it and made it into a spiral shaped extension.

If you ever have to get rid of the anodization in a tailcap you can use Draino. See post 4 in this thread. I wouldn't cut a spring unless it was a ROP LE. Just reshape it.

I've never had heat issues with a ROP but some have reported heat melting the contact on the lamp. Others have reported smoking and deforming the bulb holder. This is a long shot guess but it's possible it's a resistance problem. The ROP bulb is higher current than most hotwire lamps including the 1185. High current does not like resistance. A precaution would be to use some Radio Shack Pro-Gold on the lamp contact and inside the lamp holder.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Mike Iver

I have several ROPs flashlights in some vintage flashlights. The problem is I cannot get the hi bulb to outperform the low bulb. The low is bright enough for my use and the runtime is good, but since I have the hi bulbs I wouldn't mind using them as well.


----------



## Alteran

For a 2D size ROP, what do I do differently from the instructions for the 4D size? Is it just the battery setup?


----------



## LumenHound

Mike Iver, the hotspot of the Hi bulb may seem to be the same brightness as the hotspot of the LOW bulb but the performance of the HI bulb is better because the *diameter* of the HI bulb hotspot is *much larger* than what the LOW bulb gives.

Compare the size of the ROP bulb hotspots in the beamshots posted in this post.


----------



## bridgman

>>For a 2D size ROP, what do I do differently from the instructions for the 4D size? Is it just the battery setup?

Yep, just 6AAs in a holder or welded pack, or 2 3.7v Li cells.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Two 18650 fit in a 2D with room to spare!

Use wrapped up paper or some plastic plumbing pipe to center them up, and re-shape the end of the tail spring to make contact with the smaller diameter battery!


----------



## paulsl

Icebreak said:


> Paulsl -
> 
> I couldn't find your pack but 6 1/2 Ds should be about 220mm. The 4D Mag is designed to hold (of course) four D cells which would be 240mm. I don't know for sure but it's possible the pack might be a little short. If so, a combination of one machine bolt 2 or 3 nuts and 2 or 3 washers can be used to make an extension. I've also used 10g electrician's household wire. I stripped it and made it into a spiral shaped extension.
> 
> If you ever have to get rid of the anodization in a tailcap you can use Draino. See post 4 in this thread. I wouldn't cut a spring unless it was a ROP LE. Just reshape it.
> 
> I've never had heat issues with a ROP but some have reported heat melting the contact on the lamp. Others have reported smoking and deforming the bulb holder. This is a long shot guess but it's possible it's a resistance problem. The ROP bulb is higher current than most hotwire lamps including the 1185. High current does not like resistance. A precaution would be to use some Radio Shack Pro-Gold on the lamp contact and inside the lamp holder.
> 
> Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


 
The pack that Batteries wolesale is making has spaacers to take that length difference into account. They are making a few different ones for me so the shipping. I like the draino (liquid I assume) Pro Gold solutions. Is pro gold a spray and How long do you leave the draino in there?

Thx and when I have all the parts and do it I'll post it.


----------



## paulsl

Thx to everyone. I hope I can make it work.


----------



## LumenHound

Icebreak said:


> I've never had heat issues with a ROP but some have reported heat melting the contact on the lamp. Others have reported smoking and deforming the bulb holder. This is a long shot guess but it's possible it's a resistance problem. The ROP bulb is higher current than most hotwire lamps including the 1185. High current does not like resistance. A precaution would be to use some Radio Shack Pro-Gold on the lamp contact and inside the lamp holder.
> 
> Good luck. Let us know how it goes.



I've had the solder blob on the bottom of the bulb soften and flatten out before.







This bulb blew because I hadn't enlarged the hole in the reflector I was using to the proper size. The bulb envelope became scored on the side from the too small reflector opening when I was spinning the flashlight head during focusing. I kept the head off the flashlight and ran this bulb inside a mason jar on the tool bench. 
The bulb lasted about a dozen 5 minute runs before it went .


----------



## Icebreak

paulsl -

I'm not sure how quick it is. I've left it over night. Sometimes two applications works best. Don't fill the cap all the way up because the lye drain cleaner will "boil" or bubble up a little.

ProGold is a spray or a pen. I use the pen. Puts it right where you want it.

LumenHound -

Thanks for the pic and description. May I capture this and put it in the "Race to Failure" thread?

- Jeff


----------



## LumenHound

Icebreak said:


> LumenHound -
> 
> Thanks for the pic and description. May I capture this and put it in the "Race to Failure" thread?
> 
> - Jeff


Certainly, and thank you for asking. :thumbsup:


----------



## nightstalker101

Icebreak said:


> paulsl -
> 
> I'm not sure how quick it is. I've left it over night. Sometimes two applications works best. Don't fill the cap all the way up because the lye drain cleaner will "boil" or bubble up a little.
> 
> 
> - Jeff


 
I done two tailcaps, it only took mine about 2 minutes.


----------



## paulsl

Thx All.


----------



## VF1Jskull1

I think my energizer 2500mAh NiMh cells are starting to degrade... they don't seem to hold their charge that long anymore... the first time i got my 6AA-2D adapter they hell their charge pretty well for 2 nights.... after the second recharge (as a pack) accidentally shorted the cells by touching the alligator clips (yeah, i'm clumsy.. should have gotten solder gun and soldered some wires to the charging plug)... a few sparks materialized but not much... 

once fully charged and hot off the charger the cell pack drives the ROP-low pretty well... but if I leave the cell pack in the light overnight, the light isn't as white or bright as the first couple of time I recharged the pack....

I'm guessing you guys are going to suggest getting those cbp 1650s right??
I'm thinking of getting the eneloops...


----------



## carbine15

This weekend I went to an old antique store and of course I had my eyes peeled for a new ROP host. This is what I found. The reflector looks to be made of cast iron.


----------



## Scourie

On my Mag ROP, I've put a small indent into the centre of the cap that connects with the bulb centre pin, in order to increase contact area. I'm fairly sure the standard convex to convex contact arrangement could cause a heat build up there.

Rob


----------



## RickyT

Is there a source for just the Hi bulb? 

I just instaflashed my first one, using sub c's in a 4d. I've only had it four days and still playing around with it. 

The low just doesn't cut it. I didn't put it together for just something mediocre, and probably would hardly use them.

Anyone have a comparison shots with the WA1111?


----------



## defusion

I'm thinking of ROP-ing my mag 3D. I'm just wondering what batteries would best suit this host, price doesn't matter (within reason), as long as i have the most runtime i can get out of it, so the more batteries using up space, the better.
Do you think 6 18650 cells would fit? sets of 2 in series, times 3 parallel.
That way i'd get 6.6Ah at 7.4v!
That would be 1,5 hours or so of runtime?


----------



## Supernam

Where can I get a MOP camless reflector? Seems like the Sandwich shop is out.


----------



## kavvika

Here


----------



## ynggrsshppr

I'm in the process of building a ROP LE. A 2D Mag is the host and all I've got are Panasonic 1800mAh 18650s that I scrounged off a laptop battery pack (circuit board quit working). Will these batteries be able to hold up to the current draw of both the high and low Pelican bulbs? Should I be wary of blowing the bulbs?

Also in the process I discovered that in a 2D Mag if you want the 18650 batteries to make contact with the tailcap all you have to do is flip the tailcap spring upside down. On the positive contact I'm using a bit of aluminum foil since the little spring is recessed into the switch. Is there a better way to do this?


----------



## nightstalker101

ynggrsshppr said:


> I'm in the process of building a ROP LE. A 2D Mag is the host and all I've got are Panasonic 1800mAh 18650s that I scrounged off a laptop battery pack (circuit board quit working). Will these batteries be able to hold up to the current draw of both the high and low Pelican bulbs? Should I be wary of blowing the bulbs?
> 
> Also in the process I discovered that in a 2D Mag if you want the 18650 batteries to make contact with the tailcap all you have to do is flip the tailcap spring upside down. On the positive contact I'm using a bit of aluminum foil since the little spring is recessed into the switch. Is there a better way to do this?


 
The bulb pulls 4.3amps. There would be a 2.38C current draw which is over the recomended and over the "saftey" level of 2C's. So I wouldn't use your 18650s. Also there wouldn't be a risk of blowing the bulb. However the Low bulb would work with a draw of 1.9, the draw would be 1.1C's which is great.


----------



## Supernam

Is anyone done building a ROP 2c with AW's cells yet? How is it? I just sent my cap to get bored out and am waiting for the cells to come in. Lens, bulbs, and reflector are replaced already.


----------



## hburner

ynggrsshppr said:


> I'm in the process of building a ROP LE. A 2D Mag is the host and all I've got are Panasonic 1800mAh 18650s that I scrounged off a laptop battery pack (circuit board quit working). Will these batteries be able to hold up to the current draw of both the high and low Pelican bulbs? Should I be wary of blowing the bulbs?
> 
> You can use the 18650 cells with no problem. The upper limit on the 18650's is 5amps. I used the 2x18650 config with the MN21, that pulls upward 5amp, for a long time with no problems. Your runtime with the ROP Hi will not be that good, 15 maybe 20 min.
> 
> You really need to hold 9.5v to run the ROP lamps at their absolute best. I use 7 and sometimes 8 cells with them and the ROP HI will outshine the 1185 which is being driven at 12.3v. I have yet to blow a ROP lamp, they are very stout units. Which is more than I can say for the Welch Allyn lamps.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

My ROP HI runs on two un-protected 18650 that I got from one of our CPF dealers and have had no problems. I would be scared to run 7 or 8 AA as I only have the one bulb and would be HARD pressed to get another!


----------



## ynggrsshppr

Thanks for the input everyone, I appreciate it! I think I'll be a little cautious and just try the high bulb for short bursts just to see what it is like. The batteries I have are rather old so they might not be able to handle the load. I will be using the low most of the time.

All that is left to do is wait for the parts to come. *twiddles thumbs*


----------



## LumenHound

hburner said:


> You can use the 18650 cells with no problem. The upper limit on the 18650's is 5amps.



I don't think so. What regular use 18650 cell manufacturer says their cells can discharge 5 amps constant and be within the maximum safe discharge rate?

Answer: None.

hburner, before you isssue a statement like this you had better have proof that this is fact. 
Please provide a link to the the battery manufacturers specs pdf for this regular use 18650 cell. I have not seen a regular use 18650 spec sheet that states a safe constant discharge of more than 4.6 amps.


----------



## RickB

Supernam said:


> Is anyone done building a ROP 2c with AW's cells yet? How is it? I just sent my cap to get bored out and am waiting for the cells to come in. Lens, bulbs, and reflector are replaced already.



I put mine together a couple of weeks ago, using the spacer that AW is selling. I think it is great! It is really bright, although I can't say if it's as bright as it could be or compare it to any other bright light since this is my first "hotwire." It kills my LED lights, including a SL Stinger LED and the Fenix L1D-CE.

I've only run it for short bursts, so no run time estimates. But the AW cells do seem to hold up well; I haven't noticed the light getting any dimmer as I play with it.

Last night I was shining it out a friend's 4th story window at some other buildings. I was able to illuminate the side of another building about a full block away through the rain and streetlights. This is with the Fivemega MOP reflector... I also have the FM deep reflector which I have tried only inside. I'm looking forward to giving that a whirl outdoors...

I'm thinking about doing the tailspring resistance mod; is there a good thread with pics on what to solder where? Is it worth it to get into the switch mods?

-Rick


----------



## coontai

I too am currently building a ROP 2d with 2 18650's. I just thought of making a sleeve for the batteries out of fiberglass resin and mesh. I was wondering what people thought of the idea? It would add a lot of weight, but is it worth the effort? Also, does anyone know how well fiberglass holds up to heat? Feel free to comment


----------



## ynggrsshppr

I don't think it is worth the effort. I'm planning on using a rolled up magazine that has been cut to size and taped at the ends to keep it from unfurling. Simple and lightweight. If it gets hot enough to damage the paper I don't think I'd want the ROP in my hands since it is probably about to blow up anyway.

Plus depending on what kind of paper you are using the magazine could dampen any impacts that might damage the batteries in the event of a drop onto the floor.


----------



## coontai

i just remembered that i read somewhere on cpf that foam pipe insulation works well (like to type on a/c lines and water lines) that should add shock resistance needed if I can find the right size. If I cannot find that I'll try some flexible plastic tubing. But for now paper will have to do.


----------



## Strauss

I used 5/8" automotive heater hose...works perfect in my 2D with 18650's


----------



## nightstalker101

LumenHound said:


> I don't think so. What regular use 18650 cell manufacturer says their cells can discharge 5 amps constant and be within the maximum safe discharge rate?
> 
> Answer: None.
> 
> hburner, before you isssue a statement like this you had better have proof that this is fact.
> Please provide a link to the the battery manufacturers specs pdf for this regular use 18650 cell. I have not seen a regular use 18650 spec sheet that states a safe constant discharge of more than 4.6 amps.



Thank you for pointing this out, That was exactly what I was thinking. People espicially cant make these assumptions on cells that aren't yours, espicially considering these are only 1800mahs.


----------



## nightstalker101

Supernam said:


> Is anyone done building a ROP 2c with AW's cells yet? How is it? I just sent my cap to get bored out and am waiting for the cells to come in. Lens, bulbs, and reflector are replaced already.



In mine I moved the switch forward and I got the cells to fit without any modification of the tailcap or the spring. They work really well but now I am using them with a phillips 5761 for increased brightness from the same sized package.


----------



## mudman cj

To move the switch forward are you removing the C-clip? If so, then if the light were dropped bezel down, the only thing keeping the switch assembly from sliding forward and breaking the bulb is the set screw. That would worry me.


----------



## Mikeg23

Yes the C-clip has to be removed, but the switch will only move forward until the cam stops it.


----------



## mudman cj

OK, that makes sense, but some mods don't have the cam roller. It works for most set ups anyway.


----------



## nightstalker101

mudman cj said:


> To move the switch forward are you removing the C-clip? If so, then if the light were dropped bezel down, the only thing keeping the switch assembly from sliding forward and breaking the bulb is the set screw. That would worry me.


 
the $6 new bulb dosn't cost as much as the $12 extender


----------



## mudman cj

:lolsign: Good point! 

While the subject is open, does sliding the switch forward affect the range of focus mag users are accustomed to?


----------



## nightstalker101

mudman cj said:


> :lolsign: Good point!
> 
> While the subject is open, does sliding the switch forward affect the range of focus mag users are accustomed to?


 
No, I am almost positive it will not affect the focusing range, if it would, it would probly only affect the flood part of the cycle.


----------



## coontai

*Problems with my ROP*

I have finished my rop build but I have one problem.I have a new 2D [email protected] with a fivemega camed MOP reflector and Borofloat lens. I am running two protected 18650s (AW). My problem is the plastic area around the bulb has begun to melt and smoke after a couple minutes of use. Am I an idiot and did I miss an important mod? Or was the ROP not designed for extended runtime? I am using the high output bulb by the way. I wish I could take a pic but I cannot. I appreciate any input…


Edit: I read post 14 on this thread before anyone pointed me in this direction, but I STILL want any solutions. Thanks


----------



## mudman cj

The heat problem you have is caused by resistance at either the bulb/cup interface, the cup/spring interface, or the spring itself. Use ProGold (Edit: I meant to say Deoxit - the cleaner not the protector) to reduce resistance between bulb/cup and run solder wick from cup to cup (you can solder it directly to the cups) to reduce resistance in the spring and at the spring/cup interfaces. This should fix your problem.


----------



## PeteBroccolo

coontai said:


> I too am currently building a ROP 2d with 2 18650's. I just thought of making a sleeve for the batteries out of fiberglass resin and mesh. I was wondering what people thought of the idea? It would add a lot of weight, but is it worth the effort? Also, does anyone know how well fiberglass holds up to heat? Feel free to comment


I am using a piece of ABS plumbing pipe, 2 AW 18650 2200 mAh cells, 2 Relaxus dot magnets & 3 disc magnets in a Mag 3 C. I have only been firing up the bulb for a few seconds. I will be using the light hard next weekend as a duty light, so will see how it handles itself.


----------



## jimjones3630

Hi all,

Glad to see this thread is active again. I built a ROP out of a Mag 5c and 6 tenergy sub c 3800Mah. Did switch, pedistal, tailcap fixes and instant flashed 4 or 5 HO bulbs. 

Used the Phillips bulb in a 2c mag with 2x 18650 2600Mah since it is so white and bright looking. I had done the above fixes on it and instant flashed 3 or 4 Phillips bulbs. 

In my exerience the ROP HO and Phillips don't tolerate much overdriving, and went to WA 1111, after adding a Kiu Kit, which has a beautiful white light and likes being over driven, haven't blown one yet in Mag5c with 6 sub C's. Now using ROP lo, lo being a relative term since it's as bright or brighter than a SF M6, with the two 18650 I have so many of them left over.

ROP's and the phillps are wonderful easy mods I first started. Learning about resistance, amperage relationship to each other or rather Ohm's law applied.

Jim 



hburner said:


> ynggrsshppr said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the process of building a ROP LE. A 2D Mag is the host and all I've got are Panasonic 1800mAh 18650s that I scrounged off a laptop battery pack (circuit board quit working). Will these batteries be able to hold up to the current draw of both the high and low Pelican bulbs? Should I be wary of blowing the bulbs?
> 
> You can use the 18650 cells with no problem. The upper limit on the 18650's is 5amps. I used the 2x18650 config with the MN21, that pulls upward 5amp, for a long time with no problems. Your runtime with the ROP Hi will not be that good, 15 maybe 20 min.
> 
> You really need to hold 9.5v to run the ROP lamps at their absolute best. I use 7 and sometimes 8 cells with them and the ROP HI will outshine the 1185 which is being driven at 12.3v. I have yet to blow a ROP lamp, they are very stout units. Which is more than I can say for the Welch Allyn lamps.
Click to expand...


----------



## coontai

mudman cj said:


> The heat problem you have is caused by resistance at either the bulb/cup interface, the cup/spring interface, or the spring itself. Use ProGold to reduce resistance between bulb/cup and run solder wick from cup to cup (you can solder it directly to the cups) to reduce resistance in the spring and at the spring/cup interfaces. This should fix your problem.


 
Thanks I'll give it all a try. This thing puts out so much heat


Edit: Two coats of deoxit and progold on the bulb and cup made a HUGE I MEAN HUGE HUGE HUGE DIFFERENCE. WOW!


----------



## aerosimon

ROP Reflector choice..

HI cpf people. Great forum

I have many questions, but will 'focus' on reflector selection. What reflector is most suitable for the ROP 3854 Hi filament. Im wanting relatively round/smooth, but good throw. Iv so far used mags plastic batwinged melter,, and a homemod energizer semi-facet/smooth plastic.. I'm willing to sacrifice a little throw to have a better spot, but in my research of LOP, MOP etc LS, HS the beamshots are difficult to interpret for when the ROP Hi would achieve a relatively round hotspot also what size difference the spot is vs a smooths primary overlapping spot diameter... 

Many people seem happy with the MOP, and im eyeing the FM dual purpose reflector, but have seen in archives people using LOP and throw lovers keeping smooth. Are there huge differences in hotspot size from Smooth through to HS, and at what stage is the spot fairly round and uniform? Is anyone excessively technical like me, measuring diameter at a given distance to work out beam angle for their lights?

The spot angle (size vs dist) must relate to lux/cp given that Lumen output is fixed, only distributed differently, so is anyone able to help with this info on their reflector and state what type and finish the reflector is. I'm aware bigger=more .. This data would really help, and are there any links to data for the ROP relating Lux to reflector finish, or even for a similarly shaped filament. 

I will put up what mags plastic unit offers soon as a helper gets home. Finally, I have a surefire G2 as general reference. What sort of finish would a surefire be considered as among cpf? 

Thanks for any help or direction and its great to finally be on cpf
aerosimon

ps: I thought I read someone stating that only at 9.5Von does the ROP really shine. Is this for the 3853, or are electronics being used to not flash the 3854? thanks again..


----------



## frosty

I would say the G2 is a light stipple.


----------



## aerosimon

Thankyou frosty,

As for my technical obsession,, with the help of a friend, I'v measured the main spot (of the teardrop form) for a ROP 3854 Hi to be 56cm diameter at 8.3metre distance. Giving main hotspot spread at 3.86degrees. A second measurement changed the (teardrop shaped) hotspot to 65cm.. This was after messing with the cam, and trying again.. Angle = 4.48 degrees.. I have no Lux-metre to veryify best cp setting.. All my work is eye judgement.. 

A closer range measurement yields 3.3 degree spread roughly, at 2.6metres. This was expected as the spot isnt formed at the reflector but some distance in front. I beleive long range measurments are better representations.. But still very rough done this way..

Any opinions/criticisms/contributions/questions are welcome






Also just checked the SF G2.. I get the centre spot (arre my eyes playing with me?) as about 85cm at 8.3m.. 5.86 deg.. Overall working spot is about 1.5m at 8.3m.. giving 10.3degrees.. (smaller filament gives more concentration but smaller reflector gives more spread). I hope this makes some sense.. My eyes are starting to mess with me... I may verify my MR16 10deg at a later date..

NOTE: This is all very rough..

aerosimon


----------



## Nitro

LumenHound said:


> I don't think so. What regular use 18650 cell manufacturer says their cells can discharge 5 amps constant and be within the maximum safe discharge rate?
> 
> Answer: None.
> 
> hburner, before you isssue a statement like this you had better have proof that this is fact.
> Please provide a link to the the battery manufacturers specs pdf for this regular use 18650 cell. I have not seen a regular use 18650 spec sheet that states a safe constant discharge of more than 4.6 amps.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the LG Li-Ion 18650 2600mAh rated at 5A max discharge? At least that's what Battery Junction claims.

Are you saying 4.6A CANNOT run the ROP High bulb?


----------



## jimmyswan

1st post so be nice



I've been reading these posts and others for about 2 hours now and I'm confused and disapointed. It seems nobody has in stock any of the parts (6aa/2D or MOP Reflectors), am I missing something or someplace to buy them? I thought I wanted to go th 2D route but think a C size fits my small hands better but I'm unsure of which light to get and which batteries to get for the C route? And then I see switch problems can happen and I'm more confused than ever



Hopefully someone can point me down the right path, I would really loke to do one of these.TIA


----------



## robm

2 x 3aa/D from LITEmania:
#16. 3AA to 1D Battery Holder ( series connection ) : 3$ each : unlimited
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/index.php?threads/119033/

MOP reflector from fivemega
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/index.php?threads/150395/

www.lighthound.com for lens and lamps


----------



## Alteran

A couple questions here, mainly concerning the 2C/2D ROP.

What would be better, 6AA NiMH or 2 of AWs C Li-ion cells? Is there such thing as a 3AA-1C or 6AA-2C holder? What would be approximate runtime with high and low? What is a cammed or camless reflector? How good is throw with a MOP reflector? Would a ROP be better/cheaper than a Mag85? Would eneloops work well?

Thank you in advance, oh, scholars of the Pelican.


----------



## barkingmad

I know this probably sounds very lazy - but is there any single supplier where you can get all the parts to make a ROP in one place?


----------



## MikeSalt

Alteran said:


> A couple questions here, mainly concerning the 2C/2D ROP.
> 
> What would be better, 6AA NiMH or 2 of AWs C Li-ion cells? Is there such thing as a 3AA-1C or 6AA-2C holder? What would be approximate runtime with high and low? What is a cammed or camless reflector? How good is throw with a MOP reflector? Would a ROP be better/cheaper than a Mag85? Would eneloops work well?
> 
> Thank you in advance, oh, scholars of the Pelican.


 
3xAA to 1C would not be physically possible I think. However, I have read reports of people using those 3xAAA battery holders from cheap LED flashlights as a C replacement. The length may be a little off, but apparantly they fit. Get two of them, and 6xAAA 1000mAh rechargables and you have a ROP, albeit a short-lived one. Probably better to go with the AW Cs. 

The ROP is less expensive because it only needs 7.2volts (6xNiMH cells) rather than the 9.6 to 10.8volts (8-9xNiMH cells) for the '85. On top of that, the '85 requires a 3-cell Maglite rather than 2, and a bi-pin to PR base adapter (about $30). Of course, the '85 is more powerful.

I would recommend building a ROP first, and then, if you are happy, stop there. If you need more, you already have a lot of the parts you need to go to an '85.


----------



## jimmyswan

Thanks Robm, I think I figured out what I wanna do. Hopefully someone can make sure I'm going about this the right way. 

Host 4C Mag
Reflector: ordered per Robm's post
Batteries: 6 http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1650
Lens and bulbs from Lighthound
Charger and magnets https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/104771 with this I hope I understand correctly that I can use magnets between cells and charge all at once? Or is there a better alternative.


----------



## PeteBroccolo

I loaned out my 3 C ROP LE HO to one of my partners to use on night shifts this weekend, and one of our Auxiliary Constables ended up using it last night. It definitely did NOT last the shift, and unfortunately, I did not have any spare cells (yeah, yeah, I KNOW - bad flashaholic, BAD, BAD!!) for it. I have my AW 18650 2200 mAh cells in a charger as we speak in preparation for my 18:00 - 04:00 shift tonight.

I am going to keep the ROP LE with me tonight so I can see how it does for me, and loan out my Wolf-Eyes M90X (which performed VERY well last night!)to my partner - he is a Mag 3 C form-factor kind of guy, but the M90X' wall of light might just turn his head!


----------



## vhyper007

jimmyswan

pm inbound.

vhyper


----------



## Alteran

What is the voltage needed for the ROP high and low bulbs? Would 2 or 3 of AW's Li-ion C cells work? Would the runtime with this be better or worse than with 6 NiMH AAs?

EDIT: Woah! I'm not sure if Li-ion C cells would be any cheaper...


----------



## coontai

PeteBroccolo said:


> I loaned out my 3 C ROP LE HO to one of my partners to use on night shifts this weekend, and one of our Auxiliary Constables ended up using it last night. It definitely did NOT last the shift, and unfortunately, I did not have any spare cells (yeah, yeah, I KNOW - bad flashaholic, BAD, BAD!!) for it. I have my AW 18650 2200 mAh cells in a charger as we speak in preparation for my 18:00 - 04:00 shift tonight.
> 
> I am going to keep the ROP LE with me tonight so I can see how it does for me, and loan out my Wolf-Eyes M90X (which performed VERY well last night!)to my partner - he is a Mag 3 C form-factor kind of guy, but the M90X' wall of light might just turn his head!


 
yeah I too have the 2 18650 setup (AW protected) but the runtime sucks. Does anyone know the runtime of the c sized lions? thanks


----------



## nightstalker101

Runtime with "c"s is supposed to be around 40 minutes


----------



## PeteBroccolo

The same A/Cst was with my partner last night, so I loaned her my M90X and kept the 3 C ROP LE. It was a quiet night, so I did not use the ROP as hard as I had hoped to have to.

The ROP definitely lasted to the end of the shift - I was using it from 21:30 to 02:00. It definitely provided a very impressive wall of light. I did find the double-click cold start annoying. A 3 C with a potted 809 and 3 x 18500 cells may be more suitable to vehicle checks, but the 3 C ROP could be used for large area searches.

I am not much of a fan of the 3 C form factor, but at least it is shorter, lighter and smaller diameter, making it easier to carry and use, than a 3 D. If I ever get some money ahead, I would like to buy some of AW's C-sized li-ion cells and make a 2 C ROP LE.


----------



## coontai

nightstalker101 said:


> Runtime with "c"s is supposed to be around 40 minutes


 
I'm sorry I should have clarrified. Is it 40 mininutes on high? beacause if it is that is great and might be worth 22 each


----------



## nightstalker101

AW tested the runtime for the ROP HO to be 41 minutes


----------



## Alteran

Compared to what on Eneloops or other NiMH?


----------



## KeeperSD

Is there anywhere else to buy the IB2000? CBP hasn't had any stock for the last couple of weeks. Is that common or will they get more in the future? 

I was looking at Eneloops but after reading the thread, i am going to hold off until the 2000's become available.


----------



## Alteran

What do you mean?


----------



## plasmaman

I posted this earlier in another ROP thread, but it seems more apprtopriate here, as this thread is live!

Sure I'm not the first, but I just found that 4 x Ultrafire 14500 (unprotected) lithium rechargeables will fit into a standard D host - because they are around .15mm slimmer than yer average AA.

Now that means I can run 8 x 14500 in a 2D host using parallel holders from Rob Spook (thanks Rob) which gives me 7.4v and 3.6mah. I stuck a Pelican High in the front end of a low resistance switch, ally reflector and glass lens - and this is visually as strong and white as my SF M6 which runs WA1185 on 6 RC123's. Haven't done a run time yet, but on paper it should get around 50 minutes?

I'm really impressed with this mod - and avoiding the need to tri/quad bore to get lithium power into a 2D.


----------



## LumenHound

50 minutes may be just a tad bit optimistic. 
Ultrafire cells may not be in the same league quality wise as something like the higher priced LG cells. It's possible the capacity of the Ultrafire 14500 cells could be slightly over rated. 40-45 minutes on those cells may be more like it. You don't want to discharge unprotected cells down too far trying to squeeze out an extra 5 minutes.
Check the voltage on them quickly after a 35 minute run and see where they stand. Once you have a voltage reading after 35 minutes you will have a better idea of how much more continuous run time you could expect from them on a 3854H bulb.


----------



## Alteran

Anyone make a 2D ROP with 6 Eneloops? How well does it work?


----------



## plasmaman

LumenHound said:


> Ultrafire cells may not be in the same league quality wise as something like the higher priced LG cells.


 
I'm sure you are right about the quality of the Ultrafire cells, but I cannot find any LG 14500's. Is there a source you can point to?
The UF cells do have a button top, which helps when using a battery holder.
R/T test to be done!


----------



## Lichtschalter

Alteran,

I just finished a 2D ROP using seven Eneloop cells and one dummy cell in Modamag's 8AA>2D holder, which can be obtained through the Sandwich Shoppe.

Works perfectly and fits the 2D Mag body without any additional body modifications. A simple mod for beginners - so it was the right choice for me. The output of the ROP is truly amazing!

So thumbs up for the Eneloops!


----------



## KeeperSD

Really Lichtschalter? I thought the 8AA-2D required boring of the 2D to fit in?


----------



## Lichtschalter

Yes, I was a bit worried about this too. But the Eneloops are quite thin, so it really works without boring the 2D body.


----------



## coontai

KeeperSD said:


> Really Lichtschalter? I thought the 8AA-2D required boring of the 2D to fit in?


 
wow that is what I thought too, but i guess i was wrong. The older 2d mag are a bit wider in diameter though


----------



## Lichtschalter

The Mag I used was brand new - I have it in my car now so I can't give you the serial # to figure out how new it really is.

Other users have also stated that the Eneloop cells are relatively thin and that they work for an ROP using an 8AA holder. Try searching the forum for "eneloop rop".

I too was a bit worried because the 8AA>2D adaptor takes more space than the 6AA>2D adaptor and it's almost impossible to get a 6D adaptor now, but with the Eneloops, it's just fine. 

I must add that the Eneloop cells perform great too, so I can definitely recommend the mod I did.

Here's my 2D ROP recipe:

Maglite 2D
Borofloat lens
Carley metal reflector (SMO smooth - I wanted a thrower)
Pelican Big D 3854 bulb (ROP high)
Modamag 8AA>2D battery holder
7 Sanyo Eneloop AA cells
1 Dummy AA cell

The trickiest part was finding all the parts, but you can get everything you need from Lighthound and the Sandwich Shoppe (great customer service, too). I bought the Eneloops at a local store that specializes in cells.

I put everything together in less than three minutes - it's really an easy yet powerful mod. I guess that's what makes the ROP so popular.  

Total cost including shipping from the US: less than 100 Euros. It's sometimes incredible what money can buy you. :laughing:


----------



## Alteran

Sounds great, but I'll stick with 6AA myself. I don't see the point of risking the bulb for a marginal increase of brightness.


----------



## Lichtschalter

I think that's quite reasonable. (Just read the thread on exploding ROP bulbs.)

However, since I found no way of getting a 6AA holder, I had to go with the 7AA setup.


----------



## KeeperSD

Well i have just got my last piece to my ROP, being my fivemega reflector, and am patiently awaiting darkness to break it out and see how it goes.


----------



## LumenHound

I used LG as an example. It could also have been Sony or Molicell. These are manufacturers that release the specifications of their cells. The UltraFire cells come from a manufacturer that does not release specs on their cells. You are at the mercy of the manufacturer being honest with the reseller regarding the real capacity of the cells and that's providing the reseller doesn't inflate the manufacturers claims slightly in order to get an edge on the competition. 
Do a CPF search for the phrase Exagerated Wind and you will see what I'm refering to. 
There is nothing stoping some cell manufacturers from giving the wrong information to an honest reseller. The manufacturer can print anything they want on the label of a cell.
A quick search at diytrade.com for lithium ion brings up a whole slew of companies making rechargeable cells and who knows if their claims are slightly optimistic or not. 
These companies do not make data sheets of their cells public so you never know what you are getting until they have been tested by a independant third party.


plasmaman said:


> I'm sure you are right about the quality of the Ultrafire cells, but I cannot find any LG 14500's. Is there a source you can point to?
> The UF cells do have a button top, which helps when using a battery holder.
> R/T test to be done!


----------



## KevinL

Heya folks, glad to see the ROP is still in business in many applications worldwide. 

Couple of things: 

1. What has changed in the reflector scene? I have been away so many months that *I* need an update on the reflectors. I am looking for a cammed MOP. Yes, I like the cam.

2. The ROP's are not exactly meant to be a long runtime light, of course one can feel free to carry spares and reload. Think about it, we're delivering something in between SF M3 and M6 caliber power - and those are 20 minute lights  that we get 30+ minutes is already something. I am glad that people are finding ways to stretch the ROP though, this was always my intention - to 'open source' the design and let others take it in directions I could not have imagined or could have needed.


----------



## RickyT

KevinL said:


> Heya folks, glad to see the ROP is still in business in many applications worldwide.
> 
> Couple of things:
> 
> 1. What has changed in the reflector scene? I have been away so many months that *I* need an update on the reflectors. I am looking for a cammed MOP. Yes, I like the cam.



Yep still in business, and a lot of fun for us that have just recently discovered them or finally put one together.

Fivemega is the only one I know with the cam reflectors. Here's his latest * (2nd Run) Dual Function Removable Cam Reflector for M*g "C" & "D".*


----------



## KevinL

Cool... the official homepage has also been fixed, I discovered some images got lost during my recent 'digital house moving' (changing colocation providers). 

http://lights.lightrefineries.org/go/rop

Thanks for the tip on the reflectors, though $30 is pretty steep.. ow! I might just cave in and get a couple though, I need them.

The spirit of the ROP was always a fun, easy to build mod that required minimal technical skill, thus opening it up to lots of people. In the early days we had so many discussions about regulated circuits, bipins, exotic and hard to find components, but I kept it simple.. lots of light for very little construction. It's not the brightest, it's not the most technologically advanced, it's not the most cutting edge (it was at one point of time), but its mass market appeal tells me that I might just have gotten _something_ right 

Feel free to spread the word. I receive nothing from this project, but the intrinsic satisfaction is more than enough to keep me going.


----------



## frosty

Totally agree with you. It is a fun thing to build and simple or as complex as you want to make it.


----------



## adirondackdestroyer

KevinL said:


> Thanks for the tip on the reflectors, though $30 is pretty steep.. ow! I might just cave in and get a couple though, I need them.
> 
> The spirit of the ROP was always a fun, easy to build mod that required minimal technical skill, thus opening it up to lots of people. In the early days we had so many discussions about regulated circuits, bipins, exotic and hard to find components, but I kept it simple.. lots of light for very little construction. It's not the brightest, it's not the most technologically advanced, it's not the most cutting edge (it was at one point of time), but its mass market appeal tells me that I might just have gotten _something_ right
> 
> Feel free to spread the word. I receive nothing from this project, but the intrinsic satisfaction is more than enough to keep me going.


 
The new Dual Function reflectors from Fivemega are great! I have a Heavy Stipple in my 2C ROP Lo and the beam it produces is awesome! Looks identical to a Surefire beam, if not even smoother. Now all I want is for him to do another run of smooth reflectors so I can make my ROP a throw monster!


----------



## PeteBroccolo

KevinL said:


> Cool... the official homepage has also been fixed, I discovered some images got lost during my recent 'digital house moving' (changing colocation providers).
> 
> http://lights.lightrefineries.org/go/rop
> 
> Thanks for the tip on the reflectors, though $30 is pretty steep.. ow! I might just cave in and get a couple though, I need them.
> 
> The spirit of the ROP was always a fun, easy to build mod that required minimal technical skill, thus opening it up to lots of people. In the early days we had so many discussions about regulated circuits, bipins, exotic and hard to find components, but I kept it simple.. lots of light for very little construction. It's not the brightest, it's not the most technologically advanced, it's not the most cutting edge (it was at one point of time), but its mass market appeal tells me that I might just have gotten _something_ right
> 
> Feel free to spread the word. I receive nothing from this project, but the intrinsic satisfaction is more than enough to keep me going.


I just clicked on the ROP link, but I thought it had a link within it to the ROP LE and could not see it. Is it no longer recommended, or am I missing something.

I was playing with my 3 C sized ROP LE last night at my father-in-law's house - he lives on an acreage outside a small town. There was a 3/4 moon, almost no clouds, only a few solar-powered LED lights along the edge of his drive way at ground level and no lights on in the house. The ROP LE was VERY impressive at lighting up the yard and the land across the highway (~ 1/4 mile away).

I may have to give this light another chance my next set of 14:00 - MN or 18:00 - 04:00 night shifts. That cold-start double-click may not be THAT annoying!


----------



## KevinL

Oh, definitely the LE is still recommended. There have been no long term negative feedbacks on that one. Glad that they are still serving you well.  

http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=35

It's on the list of lights, scroll down or just keyword search the page for "lithium" and you'll find it. 

I am using unprotected 18650's in my LE, so no 'double tap' required to start 


Here's an idea for potential ROP LE builders: I forget who, but someone is offering a bunch of electroless-nickel plated Mag2C's. EN is exceptionally conductive as well, this means you do not even need to sand the tailcap of the 2C, just toss in a small spring and you are good to go. 

EN plating is absolutely AWESOME - I picked up a Surefire E2e-EN sterile electroless-nickel plated light six months ago and fell in love with the finish. There are only a tiny handful of such Surefire EN lights known to exist, I got one off an owner who got it from PK. We think it was a small batch that PK ran by hand. No markings/engravings on it but it is pure classic flat-sided E2e inside and out.


----------



## KeeperSD

Just a quick question, i am looking to upgrade my batteries and was looking for 1650's. But CBP doesn't have stock of 1650's and hasn't for quite some time. 

There used to be 2000 listed on the website but they have been removed and only leaves SP2600 on the website and they are currently available. Will these batteries be sutiable for a 6AA ROP? And will they charge suitably on a normal charger?


----------



## DUQ

Here's my new ROP. Im still waiting for a mod (not using names) to merge my post with this master thread 

My Mini RoP


----------



## LED BriCK

Does anybody know if any AAA NiMH's can handle the current draw of an ROP? I'd like to try to rig up a battery pack to stick in a 2 C cell.


----------



## mudman cj

Too bad cheapbatterypacks is out of KAN700AAA cells. They could definitely handle the current.


----------



## KevinL

DUQ said:


> Here's my new ROP. Im still waiting for a mod (not using names) to merge my post with this master thread
> 
> My Mini RoP



ooo, very nice. My favorite anodized* color, too. 

(* the other one I like is a finish: electroless nickel.)


----------



## andyr354

Ok, I have tried to read this thread and any others I can find.

I want to build the ROP with the best compromise between runtime and size. From my reading so far would this be the 4D-6SC setup with CBP4500s in a stick? (or 3600s would save my $17.40) How would that compare to a setup using a 8AA-2D holder with two dummys (since I cant find any 6AA holders. I will also need a pack charger. Off to search for that I guess.

Another consideration is shelf life. I don't use this light every day like some here do and don't want it to be dead whenever I goto use it. Do the SC cells have the same quick self discharge as the AA cells do?

Or should I just build an LE version? Can't decide.

Thanks. My head is spinning less at least. Took a good week of reading to learn most of the lingo and anagrams I needed :lol:

I came across this for the switch mod:
http://homepage.mac.com/rouses/circuits/PhotoAlbum289.html

Any other optimizations?


----------



## mudman cj

I built the 4D-6SC setup for my brother-in-law. He says when he goes to charge it after two or three weeks that it seems to have held it's charge very well since it takes little time before the charger goes green. Using AA batteries your runtime will be about half of the Elite 4500s, which power the ROP for about an hour. 

I also just built an LE 4C version for my other brother-in-law, and while it is lighter and has a nicer form factor, the runtime is only about 35 minutes on protected AW cells.

I agree that it is hard to decide. They each have their advantages.


----------



## LED BriCK

mudman cj said:


> Too bad cheapbatterypacks is out of KAN700AAA cells. They could definitely handle the current.


What about Eneloops?


----------



## mudman cj

If you look at SilverFox's data for Eneloop AA cells, they can hold a little over 1.0 Volts at 10 Amps. Assuming a linear relationship between capacity and power delivery, the AAA cells should be able to perform similarly at (800/2000)*10=4 Amps. You could probably use seven or even eight of them to drive the ROP, but you would only get about 600 mAh of usable capacity at this current for about 9 minutes of runtime.
Please keep in mind that this is largely based upon speculation. You could be the first to try it.


----------



## LED BriCK

Thanks! To be honest, I've never been able to understand SilverFox's data on these, but this isn't the first time someone has been able to help me using his graphs. I was thinking of seeing if I could squeeze 6s2p into a 2C if I mod or remove the spring to double the runtime, but really it's just for fun, so runtime isn't that important to me. I don't even have the body yet, so I haven't made any measurements other than to hold 4 AAA's next to a C, and it looks like it might work.


----------



## mudman cj

I was speaking about all series. 6s2p ought to work pretty well. With that setup each cell would run at about 2 Amps, which ought to correspond to about (2000/800)*2=5 Amp performance on the AA cells. At this current level the AAA cells should hold at about 1.15 V for half of the runtime, driving the ROP at 6.9 V nominally, with a higher initial drive voltage of course. It won't be quite as white or bright as many setups, but your runtime will increase over 7 or 8 series cells to about 20 minutes assuming 680 mAh per cell (again, from SilverFox's data).


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I have enough 3AAA "cartridges" now that I could easily try this.

But I don't think I have enough AAA to try it.

Besides, the ROP HI runs SO nice on two 18650....


----------



## LumenHound

andyr354 said:


> Ok, I have tried to read this thread and any others I can find.
> 
> I want to build the ROP with the best compromise between runtime and size. From my reading so far would this be the 4D-6SC setup with CBP4500s in a stick? (or 3600s would save my $17.40) How would that compare to a setup using a 8AA-2D holder with two dummys (since I cant find any 6AA holders. I will also need a pack charger. Off to search for that I guess.
> 
> Another consideration is shelf life. I don't use this light every day like some here do and don't want it to be dead whenever I goto use it. Do the SC cells have the same quick self discharge as the AA cells do?
> 
> Or should I just build an LE version? Can't decide.


You may want to consider a 2C host with a modded tail cap/small extender ring, powered by a pair of AW's protected "C" sized li-ion rechargeable cells. A solid 40 minutes on the high bulb. It's probably the best compromise between runtime and physical size right now. The 2C host is a very practical size in that it will fit in the back pocket of a pair of Levi's with just the head and the On-Off switch cover showing. A li-ion powered 2C ROP also weighs much less than NiMH powered versions and you don't need to purchase a battery carrier to go in the host either.


----------



## andyr354

I may try one for myself since I have an extra 2C body. I need to build one for a family member to use and don't think I trust the lithium cells for an uneducated user yet.

I might pick up one of those caps now that you mention it though while they are available.


----------



## mudman cj

I assume you mean you don't trust an uneducated user with uprotected Li-ion cells. AW's C cells are protected Li-ion.


----------



## sween1911

Hey, 

I really want to jump on the ROP bandwagon now! 

I've been experimenting with kydex (heat-formable plastic sheets) at home to make an insert for my 2D that will take 6 AA's. Still messing with it. I'm using dowels to make the form. (No, I'm not using a heatgun on kydex with batteries in it!) For now, I'm going to try a plain Mag 6-cell Xenon bulb and 6 alkalines just to get the size and contacts all working.

Question: I have some NiMH's from Radio Shack. They are 2100mah. Would that work (assuming I had all the other components in place)? Maybe just the low bulb? 

Thanks!


----------



## Icebreak

Low lamp should work just fine. I think those RS cells will be unhappy with 4+ amps from the high lamp but they should run it. Kydex. Hmmm. I like it.


----------



## wooniris

What is 3 C sized ROP LE?

Can I run 3 C-li-ions with the ROP High bulb?

Thanks


----------



## RickyT

wooniris said:


> What is 3 C sized ROP LE?
> 
> Can I run 3 C-li-ions with the ROP High bulb?
> 
> Thanks



Six sub-c's at 8+V will blow the high bulb. Three of those C li-ion at over 11+V is something I wouldn't try.

There is very good information for a solution in your 3c thread.


----------



## KevinL

sween1911 said:


> Hey,
> 
> I really want to jump on the ROP bandwagon now!
> 
> I've been experimenting with kydex (heat-formable plastic sheets) at home to make an insert for my 2D that will take 6 AA's. Still messing with it. I'm using dowels to make the form. (No, I'm not using a heatgun on kydex with batteries in it!) For now, I'm going to try a plain Mag 6-cell Xenon bulb and 6 alkalines just to get the size and contacts all working.
> 
> Question: I have some NiMH's from Radio Shack. They are 2100mah. Would that work (assuming I had all the other components in place)? Maybe just the low bulb?
> 
> Thanks!




Why not simply buy a 6AAto2D holder from the Sandwich Shoppe?


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

In a 3C I'd be inclined to use two of the highest capacity 18650 and a spacer of sorts.

I was running a 2C like that and now my ROP HI stuff is in a 2D...


----------



## sween1911

KevinL said:


> Why not simply buy a 6AAto2D holder from the Sandwich Shoppe?



Oh don't get all common sensy on me! I'm a CPF doit it yourselfer! If there's a chance of me blowing my fingers off on the cheap, I'm all over it! 

Seriously, I have been checking it out. The 6AA holder, reflector, and lens are on my shopping list!  But the holder is out of stock. And I don't see any cammed reflectors there. Am I just not looking in the right place? As an alternative to using the cammed reflector for focus, I do like the mod to the bulb holder that I've seen in a few places that involves cutting a channel so the user can lock the bulb at a specific height.

I'm also fortunate to have a brick and mortar police/fire/EMS supply relatively close by that carries all the Pelican and Mag replacement bulbs!


----------



## andyr354

8AAto2D holder from sandwich, cammed reflector from fivemegga here on board.

I have 6 bats in the 8AA holder and a jumper wire soldered in the empty bank, eneloops fit no problem with all 8 even in my 2D anyway.

Andy


----------



## mudman cj

You can use 6 sub Cs - I have done it. When I used all of the resistance fixes I blew the ROP high bulb on rested cells, but then I tried just fixing the switch spring and tailcap spring and it worked great. You really ought to fix the switch spring first, since the heat that would otherwise build up there can melt the bulb pedestal on long runs. Then you can add other fixes to whiten and brighten the bulb more, but you will be pushing it, and remember to rest the cells before use.

You can use Li-ion C cells, but you need two of them, not three. And you may have to double click to start the ROP, though many people including myself have been able to start the 5761 with only a single click, and it draws more current than the ROP high (5.5 Amps vs. 4.3 - but who knows about the initial current spike). I haven't found feedback on whether they start the ROP high with a single click.


----------



## andyr354

What is the fix for the tailcap spring?


----------



## mudman cj

You can do like post # 6 in this thread, or you can add solder if you have a way to add enough heat.


----------



## racer7

I'm running a ROP HI in a new red 2D mag with a Modamag 8 AA holder containing 7, 2500 Rayovac NiMH's (Made in Japan, they fit fine), plus a dummy batt made from an 1/2" aluminum rod. Not relevant to queston below but reflector is a MOP that to me is the best blend of spill and throw for what I do.

No resistance or switch mods, yet.

Simple question - can this thing be run on 8 AA NiMHs?? Runs fine on 7 in the current setup and doesn't fry bulbs.

This is cool light- makes my brightest led lights look rather pale though they make plenty of light for most uses.


----------



## KevinL

sween1911 said:


> Oh don't get all common sensy on me! I'm a CPF doit it yourselfer! If there's a chance of me blowing my fingers off on the cheap, I'm all over it!
> 
> Seriously, I have been checking it out. The 6AA holder, reflector, and lens are on my shopping list!  But the holder is out of stock. And I don't see any cammed reflectors there. Am I just not looking in the right place? As an alternative to using the cammed reflector for focus, I do like the mod to the bulb holder that I've seen in a few places that involves cutting a channel so the user can lock the bulb at a specific height.
> 
> I'm also fortunate to have a brick and mortar police/fire/EMS supply relatively close by that carries all the Pelican and Mag replacement bulbs!



Unprotected lithium ion cells and bare wires flapping around 

I actually did that once. I shorted it only for a tiny fraction of a second - human reaction time (approx. 100ms) before the pain reflex made me drop it. The wire had gotten so hot, it cut a line in my thumb, I estimate that was a second degree burn because of the depth. Cut a channel in there and you could see white. 

Fortunately, the line was only 1mm long (at the deepest part of the burn) and extremely thin (24AWG), so it did not cause TOO much problems despite the severity of the burn. Life went on, although it did hurt for a couple of days. 

Cammed reflectors - not sure if the Shoppe still has them. I think you might have to ask Fivemega about them. Expensive as heck though. It'd be nice if you could cut the channel and fix a non-cammed reflector yourself. I can't do that, so I use cammed.


----------



## KevinL

mudman cj said:


> You can use 6 sub Cs - I have done it. When I used all of the resistance fixes I blew the ROP high bulb on rested cells, but then I tried just fixing the switch spring and tailcap spring and it worked great. You really ought to fix the switch spring first, since the heat that would otherwise build up there can melt the bulb pedestal on long runs. Then you can add other fixes to whiten and brighten the bulb more, but you will be pushing it, and remember to rest the cells before use.
> 
> You can use Li-ion C cells, but you need two of them, not three. And you may have to double click to start the ROP, though many people including myself have been able to start the 5761 with only a single click, and it draws more current than the ROP high (5.5 Amps vs. 4.3 - but who knows about the initial current spike). I haven't found feedback on whether they start the ROP high with a single click.



The Original ROP (as in, the physical light) is a 6 sub-C using Sanyo 3600's. Those cells really do deliver a whole lot of bite!!

It's still here with me, although I haven't used it in a while.


----------



## Niteowl

sween1911 said:


> ........As an alternative to using the cammed reflector for focus, I do like the mod to the bulb holder that I've seen in a few places that involves cutting a channel so the user can lock the bulb at a specific height.........



I've got a "D" switch (late series) with the channel mod I won't be using. If you are serious about building a "D" sized ROP and could use it PM me. Personally, I prefer Li-ion and highly recommend AW's "C" cells.


----------



## PeteBroccolo

I used my 3 C-sized ROP LE on Friday night for vehicle checks, and while the double-click cold start was somewhat annoying, it was not too bad. However, the cells started running down on me, and I did not have a second charged-up set of AW's 18650 2200 mAh cells, nor my charger and DC inverter with me. I went to my W-E M90X, but again, no spare cells nor a charger with me.

Yeah, I know, not much of a flashaholic, right? However, in my defence, most of my stuff had been loaned out to my brother-in-law, and he & I have to talk about him returning my gear.


----------



## LED BriCK

Can anyone point me to the specs for the ROP bulb (3854 Hi and Lo)- Vspec, Amps, Lumens, bulblife, etc. I swear I've searched and can't seem to find them. The only thing I found was the 3850 on the Pelican website, but that was something like 600 lumens at 7.2V, so I don't think that's the right one.


----------



## KevinL

IIRC off the top of my head after a couple of drinks (in other words: may be outright WRONG...so double check these)

Nominal 6V for #3854 Big D SLA high/low output bulbs, overdriven to 7.2V nominal in ROP configurations
High: 600 lumens rated output by mfg, 1150 bulb Lu depending on overdrive amount and voltage sag and powertrain in ROP configuration
Low: 290 lumens (I am really not sure on this one), ~400 bulb Lu depending on OD as per above

High is 4 to 4.15 amps (may vary)
Low is approx 2 amps, slightly under when I measured them

Bulb life.....all bets are off in a ROP


----------



## Pyzon

Hello all-

I am curious if any of you have feedback of using a M*g3C host for a couple of EMoli cells or 3 of AW's C cells with upgraded slug/reflector/lens to drive one of the many available bi-pin bulb choices. I have a need for 300-400 lumens +/- in a 50/50 spill/spot application for interior construction inspections. (If the beam is too tight/bright the lumens go to waste with having to constantly move the light around to cover an entire attic or crawlspace.) At the same time I would love have the option to pop in an 1185 or other bulb to light things up in the outdoors to a blinding level.

So whattaya say ?

Thanks !


----------



## mudman cj

Pyzon - you could use a 1331 for "low" (about 450 torch lumens) with 3 Li-ion cells and switch to the 1185 for "high". Use a textured reflector like medium or heavy stipple to produce the spill/spot combo or if you really want to flood it out when necessary, use a fivemega cammed reflector. You can't use the cammed reflector with a KIU socket unless you install a wheel for it to run against, but you can use them with a PR to bi-pin adapter.

Edit: Whoops, nevermind about the 1331. I just found in a post from Lexina that it will instaflash off of 3 of AW's Li-ion C cells. The Carley 809 will have a better chance of not instaflashing in this setup, though I can't find where someone has verified that it won't. It would give you the amount of lumens you are looking for in a low bulb.


----------



## PeteBroccolo

I used my ROP on Friday night during a search of a yard - the caller thought there were shots fired, but more than likely it was teenagers, or drunks, or a combination thereof, firing off fireworks. Naturally, the "clients" were long gone by the time I arrived, but the ROP certainly flood-lit several lots wide and long.

Sometimes this job sucks, but I DO get paid to shine flashlights, so, really, it ain't too shabby!


----------



## Abrams.357

Is this the Battery for the ROP 4D mod seen here? - (NiMH 4/5 Sub-C batteries) I realy have no idea and i'm knew to this scene.
 *GP2200*





​ CELL SPECIFICATIONS 
*4/5SC* 
Chemistry: 
NIMH Capacity: 2200mah Length: 1.32in. 33.53mm 
Diameter: 
0.89in. 22.61mm 
Weight: 
1.62oz. 45.90gm Available (Sold Out) _*Gold Peak 2200*_
_PRODUCT DESCRIPTION _
GP 4/5SC 2200. Hot new cell. 40 amp cell. This cell now comes in "lime green" PVC -- We have been told that this cell will no longer be available in the raindbow wrap. Please be advised that the cell inside is the same high power cell as before -- only the wrap is different.
NEW LOWER PRICE​


----------



## RickyT

Those are 4/5 sub-c, a little shorter and less capacity. They will work, but a full sub-c will work in a 4D and give you longer run time.

The sub-c can/will blow the high bulb with the resistance fixes, maybe without them too. I usually burn the pack down using a kpr112 or the rop low bulb to around 7.8V or less to be safe.

Good place to get the lens and bulbs in one spot. Lighthound.


----------



## Abrams.357

RickyT said:


> Those are 4/5 sub-c, a little shorter and less capacity. They will work, but a full sub-c will work in a 4D and give you longer run time.
> 
> The sub-c can/will blow the high bulb with the resistance fixes, maybe without them too. I usually burn the pack down using a kpr112 or the rop low bulb to around 7.8V or less to be safe.
> 
> Good place to get the lens and bulbs in one spot. Lighthound.



even if there not the best are they the ones mentioned here for the 4D ROP?


----------



## RickyT

It looks like he's using sanyo sub-c 3600. 

A 4D can hold the regular sub-c, and would be a better choice. Some of the higher end ones advertise 4500mAH capacity. I'm using 3500mAH cells and get about 45 minutes.

If you're going to use a 4C, then you'd have to go with the 4/5 sub-c so they'll fit.

Much of it depends on your host. Once you decide that, then look at the best battery in your price range.


----------



## Abrams.357

RickyT said:


> A 4D can hold the regular sub-c, and would be a better choice. Some of the higher end ones advertise 4500mAH capacity. I'm using 3500mAH cells and get about 45 minutes



Where can i find the regual sub-c and can you provide a direct link to the battrey's own page and not just the website please thankx :twothumbs


----------



## RickyT

Cheap battery packs has some, and can assemble the pack. The two at the very bottom of the page here.

Check out some other places too though. Batteryjunction, Batteryspace, Amondotech are a few more places you'll find them.


----------



## Abrams.357

stupid question are these rechargable?


----------



## RickyT

Yes they are rechargeable. Alkalines can't handle the current draw.


----------



## Abrams.357

RickyT said:


> Yes they are rechargeable. Alkalines can't handle the current draw.


whats a good smart/fast charger for them


----------



## PeteBroccolo

A moment of silence, please, ladies and not-so-ladies, to honour the passing, just last night, of my 3 C ROP LE....
...
..
.
Thank you. Your thoughts have touched me!

Anywho, I was trying to haul my gear out to the patrol vehicle when I dropped my above illumination tool onto the carpetted entryway of the office. The light was not on, there was not even cosmetic damage to the host body, nor did my borofloat lens even get scratched, but the HO filament went 10-7, permanently.

Thanks to litho123, I still had an extra potted Carley 809, so I swapped the deceased 3854 HO for my back-up 809, swapped out the 2 AW 18650 cells and magnet spacers for 3 18500 cells, and my Mag 3 C was once again ready to fight crime, evil and immorality - just not at its previous illumination level!


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Bummer Pete!

I would be up the creek if my HO died. But/So I don't use it much.


----------



## KevinL

Spare bulbs!


----------



## Valolammas

sween1911 said:


> ...As an alternative to using the cammed reflector for focus, I do like the mod to the bulb holder that I've seen in a few places that involves cutting a channel so the user can lock the bulb at a specific height....



Don't have a ROP, but I've been messing with my 2D Mag lately. You can just put a thin washer under that bolt the cam pushes against. Tighten it when the moving parts are at desired height and they will stay put. Then if you want to use the camming action, just loosen it a little and it works just fine.


----------



## PeteBroccolo

KevinL said:


> Spare bulbs!


I have to order another LO/HO pack from my dealer, and I just found one closer to home, so am waiting for a price.


----------



## Mad1

I've got a Fivemega 6AA to 2D adapter.

Is this suitable for charging it?
http://batteryjunction.com/unsmch.html

Also can I charge the pack in the flash light or do I need to remove it?

Thanks.


----------



## FILIPPO

Mad1 said:


> I've got a Fivemega 6AA to 2D adapter.
> 
> Is this suitable for charging it?
> http://batteryjunction.com/unsmch.html
> 
> Also can I charge the pack in the flash light or do I need to remove it?
> 
> Thanks.


 
I think that your charger is OK and you can charge the pack without removing batteries, but I think you must open the flashlight...


----------



## Mad1

Thanks FILIPPO.


----------



## dmc888

Can a ucl lens be used or will the rop high and low bulb melt its coating?

I have a rop low with a borofloat and was wondering if i can put my ucl lens in there.


----------



## Mad1

People have used the UCL without any problems.

I prefer the borofloat because of it's high resistance to heat it will last longer.


----------



## mudman cj

Borofloat glass has a lower thermal expansion coefficient than many glasses, which I believe includes the type used for UCL lenses. This makes Borofloat glass more thermal shock resistant. Pyrex (Simax) is similarly thermally shock resistant, but not as transparent as Borofloat. You are most likely to have a problem with UCL lenses using high power lights in cold weather when the lens experiences rapid temperature change. Some folks have cracked multiple UCL lenses in their hotwire before switching to UCL. 

Personally, I always use Borofloat for incandescents because of the thermal shock resistance and good transmission from visible to infrared (needed to start fires :devil. UCL has excellent transmission properties, but Borofloat isn't bad either. I couldn't find transmission spectra for UCL, but the main advantage appears to be the anti-reflective coating. Typical anti-reflective coatings give a reflection of about 1%, compared to about 4% without them. That extra 3% is what you get for the decreased shock resistance of UCL.


----------



## dmc888

Thanks mudman for the explanation.


----------



## lctorana

Hi,

I have a cheap 6D m*glite clone on order, and want to make a RoP.

I have 6 x 4500mAh NiCds, ready to go, and a brick&mortar store a few miles aways sells both #3853 and #3854 over the counter.

I fully understand the need for a Borofloat lens and a metal reflector, and I am handy with a sodering iron, so can fix most resistance problems, but one thing COMPLETELY BAFFLES me.

I don't at all understand how the reflector works.

Fivemega says the hole is 0.33" in diameter, but a 3854 is a PR-sized flange bulb, and is bigger than that, wouldn't it?

And how do you mount the bulb in one of these reflectors? What holds it in place?

Is there some sort of metal or teflon bulb holder I need to buy?

And, if so, how does it connect to the reflector? Is the reflector inside threaded or something?


----------



## FatTony

Only the glass part of the bulb goes through Five Mega reflectors, and it is the bulb holders job to hold the bulb in place.


----------



## lctorana

Yeah, but how?

How does the bulb holder connect to the reflector?
Is the reflector meant to be threaded? Or is it meant to be some sort of interference fit, and onto what?

Sorry, I'm none the wiser. I just don't understand why all the istructions mention lens, reflector, bulb, battery housing, but noone mentions how to mount the bulb.

And isn't the glass part of a PR flange bulb, like the #3854, at least 11mm in diameter anyway?


----------



## mattchase

Lctorana, 

Here is a pictorial that hopefully will clear things up for you. The first three shots are with the stock Mag bulb as it was handy and I didn't want to take out the actual ROP bulb, but it works exactly the same way with either bulb. The rest of the shots show the ROP low bulb installed. The large grey reflector is an FM 2.5" throwmaster which is all one unit (you can't take the reflector out of the head). The other head is the standard Mag head with an FM MOP reflector, which simply drops into the Mag head to replace the stock plastic reflector.






Standard Mag bulb and holder ring (ROP bulbs roughly same size)





Bulb mounted inside holder ring





Bulb and holder ring screw into Mag





Bulb mounted in Mag (ROP Low bulb shown)





FM 2.5" throwmaster head with cam slides over ROP bulb (also shown is lower portion of original Mag head)





ROP low bulb installed in FM 2.5" head. The opening in the reflector is just large enough for the bulb to stick through, and the holder ring / PR base portion remain outside / below the reflector.





Closeup of the ROP low bulb in FM 2.5" head.





Here is a more standard arrangement, using an FM MOP reflector inside the standard Mag head.





The reflector just drops in to replace the standard Mag reflector, then the head mounts to the Mag body exactly as before. The openeing size is the same as the 2.5" head I used above.





Standard Mag head with FM MOP reflector installed over the ROP low bulb.

Hope that helps.

Matt

PS. let me know if it's ok to post so many pictures in a thread...I would be happy to put these on a seperate page on my site and link to that instead if it would be more appropriate.


----------



## fivemega

lctorana said:


> I have a cheap 6D m*glite clone on order, and want to make a RoP.



*[size=+1]All hot wire parts such as aluminum reflectors, Boro lens and bulbs are designed for genuine M*glites and may not fit or work with any other brand flashlights.[/size]*


----------



## Learjet

Yep, what Fivemega says is true. I have a number of Mag clones where the bulb holder is unsuitable for the high temperatures of even the Pelican low bulb. Added to that, many clones use different dimensions to the original Mag so Fivemega's parts may not fit. Best to stick to genuine Mags unless you know for sure the clone will fit the parts and take the heat.


----------



## lctorana

Tony, Matt, FM and LJ,
:twothumbs
Thank you all. You're all gentlemen.
(not that I can assume you are all blokes, but you know what I mean.)

OK, now I understand - the Maglite bulb is a pedestal mount, and both bits are of solid metal. And only the bulb glass pokes through.

You see, nearly every incan bulb torch I've ever had has used what I will call the Eveready system where the bulb is screwed into the back of the reflector, either directly (E10) or via a hollow stud (PR).

And - most importantly of all, as it happens, I also now have a *genuine* 6D Mag on order, so I'm still in the game.

Naturally, one just can't have too many torches.

Happy now.

Thanks again.


----------



## scubasteve1942

Ok im about to start ordering all the parts needed to build a ROP and just wanter to run my list by you guys to make sure it good. Here it goes:

1x 2D maglite
6x AA NiMH enloop's 2000 mah.
1x 2D to 6AA battery carrier.
1x Pelican Big D 3854 Bulb Set
1x 52.1mm UCL or Borofloat Lens (is one better than the other?)
1x LOP or MOP metal reflector

If there is anything I missed or a better combo of parts let me know. Thanks.


----------



## FILIPPO

scubasteve1942 said:


> Ok im about to start ordering all the parts needed to build a ROP and just wanter to run my list by you guys to make sure it good. Here it goes:
> 
> 1x 2D maglite
> 2x 18650 Protected 2200 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Batteries and charger
> 1x tubing to hold the batteries
> 1x Pelican Big D 3854 Bulb Set
> 1x 52.1mm UCL or Borofloat Lens (is one better than the other?)
> 1x LOP or MOP metal reflector
> 
> If there is anything I missed or a better combo of parts let me know. Thanks.


 

I think you have everything...
-you can also use "C" li-ion batteries for a better runtime but I DON'T know if they will fit in a mag 2D without an extender. you must check (battery and charger).
-I'm using a BOROFLOAT in my ROP/mag85 and I have never had any problem. can't say anithing about UCL
-I suggest a MOP reflector by FM, I really like the BEAM

:twothumbs
good luck with your ROP!
FILIPPO


----------



## scubasteve1942

I have been doing some reading and i think I will go with 6x AA NiMH batteries instead of the 18650's. So I will also need a 2D to 6AA battery carrier.


----------



## mudman cj

I found a thread with some experiences from folks that have had UCL lenses break in use. Here is a link. It seems that UCL lenses can sometimes be used for high powered hotwires with success, but other times they fail. Even borofloat lenses can break with a light such as the USL.


----------



## RickB

mudman cj said:


> I found a thread with some experiences from folks that have had UCL lenses break in use. Here is a link. It seems that UCL lenses can sometimes be used for high powered hotwires with success, but other times they fail. Even borofloat lenses can break with a light such as the USL.



I started a thread a while back asking for advice for my ROP LE build. There was a fair amount of discussion of the borofloat vs. UCL question.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/150906

Just a few more data points to chew on...

-Rick


----------



## amv12

Hi guys, I've tried to build a 2c ROP using 2 ultrafire protected 18650 cells. Problem is the tail cap does not close all the way(2mm gap) AND the rop high bulbs wont start with these batteries.

I'm thinking of getting AW 18650 for this, but can anyone confirm if they are a perfect fit?


----------



## GregY

scubasteve1942 said:


> I have been doing some reading and i think I will go with 6x AA NiMH batteries instead of the 18650's. So I will also need a 2D to 6AA battery carrier.


 
I've just recently started looking for one of those. They seem to be much harder to come by then they used to be.

If anyone has a *current* source for 6AA to 2D carriers/adapters, please let us know.


----------



## Lightedge

amv12 said:


> Hi guys, I've tried to build a 2c ROP using 2 ultrafire protected 18650 cells. Problem is the tail cap does not close all the way(2mm gap) AND the rop high bulbs wont start with these batteries.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting AW 18650 for this, but can anyone confirm if they are a perfect fit?



They are not a perfect fit. I bought one of his extenders, removed the spring and added aluminum foil in the tailcap to accomodate these cells. They are a little longer than my LG 18650 unprotected cells. Also, I have to double click with these cells. This was a negative surprise since they are advertised to deliver 5 amps +/- .5 amps. I thought the ROP bulb was well within these tolerances.


----------



## amv12

Thanks for the response lightedge. I ended up going with 2 AW C + extender.


----------



## KnOeFz

After receiving the needed materials I've put together my 2C ROP. Very impressive light. Using the vlop reflector from Fivemega and boro window. had a spring from and old multiled flashlight that I tossed in the tailcap with a lowresistance fix. Had to bend a spacer from a piece of wire to put between the bulb and the reflector to get better focus. Love this light!























Unfortunately afte deannodising the tailcap I thought it would be a good idea to polish the inside with my dremel and the tailcap slipped. So now there's a smal piece of damaged annodising on the tailcap... I'm thinking about completely deannodsing the tailcap and polish the hell out of it to give the light a different look.


----------



## BSBG

I finally put together a 2C LE as well - pewter host, download's Magring2 and insert kit, 2 AW 18650's, and a fivemega MOP cammed reflector. What a great setup! Amazing output for the size - the high bulb is close to my 9AA Mag85, and the low seems to be "just right" for a general purpose light.

Let me say that the download Magring 2 kit is quite nice - the poly battery insert stays in place with an O-ring, and his tailcap mod is so simple that it is elegant. Yes, it's a keychain split ring, but it is the perfect size split ring and a piece of wire braid.




Lightedge said:


> s. Also, I have to double click with these cells. This was a negative surprise since they are advertised to deliver 5 amps +/- .5 amps. I thought the ROP bulb was well within these tolerances.



Same here, but let me clarify and say that I need a double press to fire the high bulb - if I click it to constant on, it goes the first time. The partial press for momentary needs the double. Maybe some Deoxit for the switch would help.

The only negative is that the point of balance shifts rearward, making the light seem tail heavy. A minor issue....

:thumbsup:


----------



## lctorana

*The Pelican roars - yay!*

I have been gradually modding my 4C mag - as follows:

First step was more batteries - 6 x 4/5 SubC fitted nicely, overdriving a KPR113.

Second step was a HPR71 - more than double the brightness.

Third step was *download*'s MagCTower.

Fourth step was *FiveMega*'s cammed reflector, bored out to 9mm for the HPR71.

Fifth step was a UCL lens from *Lighthound*.

Sixth step was to substitute the RoP-low bulb for the HPR71. Result? About 10% down according to my light meter. That HPR71 is a beauty.

Seventh step - was to put in the RoP-Hi bulb.
Wow. Seventh heaven.:thumbsup::twothumbs
According to the lightmeter, it has literally DOUBLE the lux output of the RoP-low.
To use it indoors in a completely dark room, is even brighter than turning the lights on.

To use it outdoors is a joy. What a torch!

The Pelican has roared. No - purred. The light is bright, but oh-so-silky-smooth.

If you haven't built a RoP yet, please indulge yourself.


----------



## download

I made "MagRing2" kit to ease the pain for fitting protected 18650 x2 to Mag2C, check my link below. Ring thickness is 3mm.


----------



## Daekar

I'm looking at building a 2D ROP and my question is, will I fry my Eneloops if I use them for this light? I don't want to destroy them in short order... I don't mind if they have slightly reduced lifespan from current draw, but I don't want them conking out on me in a few cycles. So... are they up to the abuse, or am I doomed to buying something else?


----------



## beakman

*Re: The Pelican roars - yay!*



lctorana said:


> Second step was a HPR71 - more than double the brightness.
> 
> Sixth step was to substitute the RoP-low bulb for the HPR71. Result? About 10% down according to my light meter. That HPR71 is a beauty.



Ictorana,

Where can I find one of these HPR71 bulbs? Are they still being made?

beakman


----------



## REparsed

*Re: The Pelican roars - yay!*



beakman said:


> Where can I find one of these HPR71 bulbs? Are they still being made?



I'd like to know that also.


----------



## Cnote

Which would be better, 6AA NiMH or 2 of AWs C Li-ion cells?


----------



## Gunner12

Cnote said:


> Which would be better, 6AA NiMH or 2 of AWs C Li-ion cells?



I'd say 2 of AW's C cells because they should have a higher capacity then 6 NiMh batteries(3300 mAh vs 1600-2700 mAh depending on brand) and are also smaller. But 6 AA NiMh cells are cheaper and easier to replace if anything happens.

I have to say, this is an awesome thread with lots of information.


----------



## lctorana

*Re: The Pelican roars - yay!*



beakman said:


> Where can I find one of these HPR71 bulbs? Are they still being made?


Still being made - in Germany, as it happens.

Very common in Australia - although rather dear.

Sold as the replacement bulb for the "Eveready Dolphin Rechargeable" - which I suppose is Australia's answer to the Magcharger.

It's 6v 10w, so by rights should be about 10% LESS bright than the RoP-low, so maybe I was experiencing resistance issues or voltage sag.

But it's easily available, tolerant of overdriving, and my favourite hotwire.

However, I can't put my hand on my heart and swear it is better than the RoP-low - the databooks say it shouldn't be, and there's not much to choose between them anyway.

And the HPR71 physically resembles the RoP-high, but has similar characteristics to the RoP-low, which in turn resembles the MagStar Xenon. Confused?


----------



## FILIPPO

*Re: The Pelican roars - yay!*



lctorana said:


> Still being made.
> 
> Very common in Australia - although rather dear.
> 
> Sold as the replacement bulb for the "Eveready Dolphin Rechargeable" - which I suppose is Australia's answer to the Magcharger.
> 
> It's 6v 10w, so by rights should be about 10% LESS bright than the RoP-low, so maybe I was experiencing resistance issues or voltage sag.
> 
> But it's easily available, tolerant of overdriving, and my favourite hotwire.
> 
> However, I can't put my hand on my heart and swear it is better than the RoP-low - the databooks say it shouldn't be, and there's not much to choose between them anyway.
> 
> And they look similar. It is not beyond the realms of possibility they are the same bulb.


 

maybe a stupid question:
are them bi-pin or PR-Base?

thanks


----------



## lctorana

HPR71

H for halogen
PR for PR


----------



## FILIPPO

lctorana said:


> HPR71
> 
> H for halogen
> PR for PR


 
thanks for your reply


----------



## whitedoom34

How significant is the loss of bulb life when running a 2D ROP HOLA with 7*Sanyo Eneloop AA's?


----------



## Lichtschalter

@whitedoom: I'm using 7 Eneloops and 1 dummy cell in my 2D ROP and have not noticed any significant loss in bulb life for the Pelican Big D HOLA.


----------



## LumenHound

That 3854 HI bulb is one tough bulb and you have a solid batt combo to drive it very bright.
Keep 'em topped up and run hard. Expect somewhere around 20 hours on that bulb with your setup. Runs of longer than 5 minutes will aid in completing the bulb self preservation Halogen cycle.
Enjoy.


----------



## M.S

I built my first ROP from my old 4D about a week ago. Charging the batteries is bit hard, so I'd like to install charging plug somewhere near the switch. I'm sure that there is a thread about charging plug installations somewhere in these forums, but I can't locate it. Could you point me to one?


----------



## whitedoom34

thank you lichtschalter and lumenhound for your replys! well, if i can expect a bulb life of 20 hrs with 7 cells, how much can i expect while running it with 6 cells?


----------



## gratewhitehuntr

Ok so I was lookin around for the run time formula but apparently I suck at searching.

Can someone give me a run time on a HOLA 6D with 10,000 mah Tenergy cells?

https://www.all-battery.com/datasheet/dsize10000mah.pdf
the data sheet


----------



## abinok

if thats their actual capacity...
10000mah...
Lamp draws as much as 4.4 amps
2.27 hrs... or 136min or 2hrs and 16min.
Thats the "textbook" answer.
id say to expect about 70% of that with the variances in cell capacities, amp draw for a given lamp, and the fact that as your cells are depleated, the voltage will drop. So, a good solid hour and a half of light with minimal drop in output, with another 30 min or so of declining output.


----------



## beefy6969

amv12 said:


> Hi guys, I've tried to build a 2c ROP using 2 ultrafire protected 18650 cells. Problem is the tail cap does not close all the way(2mm gap) AND the rop high bulbs wont start with these batteries.


 
I got the same exact queston too. I have a bunch of Ultrafire protected 18650 from DX & Kai. When I hooked them up to my 2C ROP Hi, it will not turn on.

Are these cheap batteries just too weak? Has anyone gotten it to work besides the AW ones?


----------



## FILIPPO

the rop high, becouse of his high drow (4Ah), may not work with some type of li-ion...
you can try to click the switch more then one time (very fast) and it may work


----------



## KevinL

Ahh, the ROP is still alive and well 

I will note (yet again) that the ROP is very sensitive to battery choice. It's worth paying the few extra dollars for the very best that you can get. I trust AW 

Hey speaking of AW, how did his C-sized protected li-ions turn out?


----------



## MikeSalt

Ah yes alive and well. The ROP, reminding us why our collections are not 100% LED. I'm just waiting on another FM 6AA>2D adapter. I still prefer the safety and predictablity of NiMHs for now.


----------



## dmc888

Anyone else have the solder on the rop high bulb melt off. My setup was fine with the low bulb. I might have ran it for 20-30 minutes.

I did the resistance fix with copper desoldering wire in the spring that held up fine and did a good job with the tailcap fix too. 4d 6 subc 3000mah.

Started flickering than finally stopped working. I accidently broke off the skinny negative contact that rubs the bulb holder while putting the switch together.

I was thinking of switching the wire in the spring to a solid copper wire and add a solid copper wire from the switch - to the bulb holder. Solid copper wire used for home wiring.

If I wrapped the negative wire switch to bulb holder around the outside of the switch housing a few times will it act like a heat sink?


----------



## MikeSalt

Whoa! You are lucky that you did not instaflash the bulb with that setup. The Sub-C cells are virtually immune to any voltage sag in this setup, You should not do the resistance mod fix with these cells.

The filament in your ROP bulb must have been particularly well-made for the soldering to fail first.


----------



## dmc888

Well I think I might have instaflashed my first one. Unless it was doa. 

I will add some solder and see how the bulb holds up.


I guess i could repair the switch and switch switches  with my terr6ex mag.

So just for reference the resistance fix should be done for AA Rop setups.


----------



## KevinL

MikeSalt said:


> Ah yes alive and well. The ROP, reminding us why our collections are not 100% LED. I'm just waiting on another FM 6AA>2D adapter. I still prefer the safety and predictablity of NiMHs for now.



I think that is the winning premise of the ROP - simplicity. Ease of maintenance, ease of charging, and works with everything (even though I carp on and on about using only the highest quality cells in it - well it's for ya own good  but I can't force people, so I just advise and they go with their choices). 

I have been investigating 'exotic' battery solutions for the ROP that seemingly offer lighter, safer ROPs. All I've got to show for it is a headache and no clear answer. Chargers are either problematic, not specifically certified (if a manufacturer can't/won't update their datasheet I won't buy, PERIOD), some cell manufacturers do not give clear indications of their chemistries but prefer trade names so I can't figure out if 3rd party chargers will work with them, and all in all it's become a gigantic pain. 

Then there are engineering issues like case removal, positive ground, and a whole series of complications to deal with. The original ROP premise was simplicity: slap the cells in and *GO*.

At the end of the day I think the Original ROP Where It All Began (my specific copy), which is a 4D and six SubC is still far and away a winner whichever way we cook it. NiMH is not the most exotic or sexy of battery technologies, but it is safe, easy, predictable and reliable. Sub-C needs no resistance fixes due to inherent high overdrive and extra voltage to take up the slack (throw more juice at it, always works). 

Eneloops might be good though. IIRC SilverFox characterized them to withstand very high amp draws. Anything that can walk away from a 5 amp draw will be fine in a ROP.


----------



## MikeSalt

dmc888 said:


> So just for reference the resistance fix should be done for AA Rop setups.


 
Depends on the quality of the cells. High-current cells such as Titanium Powermax, Eneloops, CBP1650s and Elite 1700s should NOT have this resistance fix. Others might benefit from it, but be prepared to replace ROP bulbs if you do.


----------



## mudman cj

It also depends if you let Nimh cells rest after charging. I can get away with the tailcap spring fix and the bulb pedestal spring fix without instaflash using 6 Elite 4500 Nimh cells (the largest capacity sub C's I could find), but only if they have rested overnight. It's very white.


----------



## JimmyM

I'm using a ROP-Hi bulb in an FM C cell light running 2 of AWs LiIon C cells. It has all resistance fixes as well as a MOSFET modded switch. It's really bright and white. The bulb life is questionable though. I haven't tested Vbulb to see what exactly is getting to the bulb itself. Maybe this weekend.


----------



## PhantomPhoton

Sorry I don't have any pics at the moment, but last night going thru spare parts I constructed a Roar of the PT :devil:.
Maybe tomorrow I'll snag my brother's little point and shoot Casio Camera.

Anyway I took a Princeton Tec 20, took out the stock bulb, tossed in an ROP Low and 2 14500's. I had to fiddle a bit to get contact on the bottom. Plus the 14500s seem to stand a bit tall; just putting the bezel on turns the light on. But it's plenty bright for a 2AA size light. :naughty: Not practical but fun yes!

I haven't been able to sift thru all of this monster thread, but I havent skimmed any mention of ROP Low/14500 mods. Anyone else modded something similar?

Oh yea...
Since we're in a plastic host I wouldn't go on any runtime marathons, but >30 sec bursts seem to do no harm. And as usual general LiIon safety... please don't be an idiot, don't try a ROP high especially on unprotected 14500 cells k thx.


----------



## KevinL

PhantomPhoton said:


> Sorry I don't have any pics at the moment, but last night going thru spare parts I constructed a Roar of the PT :devil:.
> Maybe tomorrow I'll snag my brother's little point and shoot Casio Camera.
> 
> Anyway I took a Princeton Tec 20, took out the stock bulb, tossed in an ROP Low and 2 14500's. I had to fiddle a bit to get contact on the bottom. Plus the 14500s seem to stand a bit tall; just putting the bezel on turns the light on. But it's plenty bright for a 2AA size light. :naughty: Not practical but fun yes!
> 
> I haven't been able to sift thru all of this monster thread, but I havent skimmed any mention of ROP Low/14500 mods. Anyone else modded something similar?
> 
> Oh yea...
> Since we're in a plastic host I wouldn't go on any runtime marathons, but >30 sec bursts seem to do no harm. And as usual general LiIon safety... please don't be an idiot, don't try a ROP high especially on unprotected 14500 cells k thx.




Cool 

Never herad of a ROP low on such small cells. Just as long as you try not to exceed the recommended 2C discharge and NEVER exceed the 3C "Point of No Return".. it should work 

Definitely no ROP High though!


----------



## MikeSalt

I wonder if Pelican look at their sales of the Big-D SLA spotlight, and then look at the sales of their 3894 bulb kit and wonder why there are so many bulbs being sold compared to flashlights?


----------



## KevinL

MikeSalt said:


> I wonder if Pelican look at their sales of the Big-D SLA spotlight, and then look at the sales of their 3894 bulb kit and wonder why there are so many bulbs being sold compared to flashlights?



We've been speculating on this for quite a while, in fact we did wonder if Pelican realized they were selling too many bulbs. It's been a couple of years though, and we haven't had any supply problems, so it seems all right.

Amazingly, I've never owned a Pelican light, yet I've owned a lot of Pelican lights


----------



## MikeSalt

Arghhhhh! Just been on the Pelican website and it looks like they have DISCONTINUED their Big-D SLA/NiMH light. Does that mean that the 3854 bulb kits will also be discontnued shortly?


----------



## KevinL

MikeSalt said:


> Arghhhhh! Just been on the Pelican website and it looks like they have DISCONTINUED their Big-D SLA/NiMH light. Does that mean that the 3854 bulb kits will also be discontnued shortly?



  :shrug:

Maybe they are finally onto us?  _*hands microphone over to the conspiracy theorists*_


Speaking from a practical perspective, I figured this day would probably come. Sooner or later. #3854's will probably continue to be available for a while yet, since to discontinue spares would immediately leave all existing Big-D users in the lurch. Respectable manufacturers usually continue to produce spares for a while yet to keep existing units serviceable till their users migrate to a different platform. I'm *guessing* we could be looking at 12 months. 

So.. migrating to a different platform. We'll have to do that. The ROP is fundamentally a 6V lighting system that tolerates some (lithium ion) to significant (high-amp NiMH) overdrive to get more light. 

Basically anything 6V that fits in a PR base and puts out sufficient light will do. The immediate thought that comes to mind for me assuming my #3854 supply dried up tonight is the WA1111. Either potted WA1111's, or PR to bipin adapters. I have seen some of these around - if you have used them I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts.

Bad news is that even with the 1111 you are going to lose output. It's a 3.35A (nominal) lamp vs a 4.15A lamp, and produces less output (~464 bLu vs ~600 bLu for #3854-Hi). It's a bright lamp, and was considered during the early days when I was conceptualizing the ROP, but the ROP bulb still kicked its @ss 

Either way we have had a fantastic run. 2005-2007 and probably into 2008, with lots of people getting hooked on the hotwire stuff thanks to it. I suggest that if you folks are waiting to build one, wait no longer. It's gonna be a mad rush for all remaining supply of the #3854's. Don't pop too many bulbs..... 

As for myself? I will probably be scaling up into the 50-100W power class.. my ROP/4D could see a new world and a new life as a 100W-capable light running on LiFePO4 'safe' cells.

It's too early to write eulogies, but we also look back at the history of the ROP: providing a hotwire *PR-base* alternative in an era where potted bulbs were tremendously difficult to get and waitlists approached six months. The whole idea was to bring the light to the 'masses'. Now that bipin adapters have become standard issue, including Kiu's brilliant ceramic socket, and some other very interesting PR-to-bipin creations, this is no longer expected to be an issue.


Hmm, R.I.P. doesn't sound as good as R.O.P.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Knocked together a ROP last night out of a Black 2D mag, Black Five Mega FM3V-2 head, and two emoli cells a bit of bubble wrap, and some wires in the tail

Very nice!!!!.......Very useable, Very easy :thumbsup:


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I'm liable to be in big trouble if/when my ROP HI bulb 

I don't know where I can get any more local, and I don't have PP or CC.

Fortunately a M*gcharger bulb on 6AA ain't too shabby itself.... (when in the proper reflector).


----------



## KevinL

Stock up, stock up! The end of the worl.. I mean, ROP, is nigh!! 

Actually don't worry too much about it. You've got 12 months and we've got a similar substitute with just a little bit less light. 

I ran the numbers through my calculator and they indicate that a ROP driven on high amp NiMH stands to lose ~200 bLu. A ROP driven on anything else, lithium ion or consumer AA NimH only stands to lose around ~100 bLu, which is not a lot. We are still looking at anywhere from 800 to 960 bLu of light though, which is a LOT!!

I'm sure some CPF'er will part with a few WA 1111's for a check or money order..

Raoul, congrats on the build  It was meant to be this easy


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Somebody find me an online source where I can send a money order!!!


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Raoul_Duke said:


> Knocked together a ROP last night out of a Black 2D mag, Black Five Mega FM3V-2 head, and two emoli cells a bit of bubble wrap, and some wires in the tail
> 
> Very nice!!!!.......Very useable, Very easy :thumbsup:




Oh and very nice with FM3V-2 
Cheers KevinL


----------



## KevinL

MikeSalt said:


> Arghhhhh! Just been on the Pelican website and it looks like they have DISCONTINUED their Big-D SLA/NiMH light. Does that mean that the 3854 bulb kits will also be discontnued shortly?



Hey, wait. Where's the information? I can't find it on the website..

A direct link would be good.

A dealers' website does not qualify.. only the official PR from Pelican. I'm kicking myself that I did not verify this story before the whole panic started


----------



## MikeSalt

Kevin, I just went onto Peli.com and could not find the Big-D. That's where my panic emerged.

I have just realized my mistake. If I look at www.Pelican.ca, the Big-D is there, alive and well. Oh dear, I've sparked worldwide ROP panic for nothing. Onto the apologies....


----------



## KevinL

I just advised someone to stock up, now I look bad too  the day I decide to break my own rule of always verifying information against the manufacturer's official source..

www.pelican.com has the Big D there, big and bright..


----------



## Mustangmoh

If i want to build a 4D cell ROP mag what batteries should i use, im new to this forum and to flashlight building in general and upon looking at cheapbatterypacks.com i just ended up with a bewildered stare :huh:. So what do you guys recommend. I read through some of the posts but there is way too many pages to read through. Also where do i get a Carley RF1940 reflector for this light, i would like something that is still focusable.


----------



## lctorana

In a 4D - I'd go with 6 x SubC NiMH or NiCD. Will need some radial padding - either PVC pipe, or roll the 6 cells up in a strip of cloth.

As for the reflector, FiveMega has stippled reflectors for sale, and Kaidomain has smooth ones. There are recent posts for both in these forums.

For a lens, you can use a UCL, a Borofloat, or be like me and buy a 50mm magnifying glass for $2 and use the lens out of that.


----------



## IcantC

When sanding the tailcap, how much or where do you need to remove it from? Just the middle or all of the tailcap? What is the purpose of this? Is it for the spring makes contact with tailcap and no anodizing in the way?

I was reading the DIY here
http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9


----------



## lctorana

Yes to the last bit of your question.

If you use the spring in its factory position, change nothing.

If you re-position the spring, you need to make sure it makes good contact. Simple as that.

Then there are resistance fixes, but others can tell that story.


----------



## Mustangmoh

lctorana said:


> In a 4D - I'd go with 6 x SubC NiMH or NiCD.
> 
> What voltage or specs should i look for on the batteries? I dont want to buy too powerful batteries


----------



## lctorana

In a RoP? Not critical.

The voltage is all the same, and IMHO, I would go for the highest capacity you want to pay for.


----------



## KevinL

lctorana said:


> In a RoP? Not critical.
> 
> The voltage is all the same, and IMHO, I would go for the highest capacity you want to pay for.



Wrong. Absolutely critical. The ROP is most unforgiving on batteries. I cannot stress this enough, most ROP users don't seem to care; and then wonder why their lights are dim or why their batteries cannot tolerate the discharge rates. 

I recommend any of the high amp (30A+) Sub-Cs from CheapBatteryPacks.com. Contrary to their name, they are anything but 'cheap and cheerful'. They're affordable and some of the best.


----------



## lctorana

I didn't know that there were any SubC cells out there that wouldn't stand a 4A draw.

Sorry.


----------



## KevinL

No problem.. 

I've worked with cells that couldn't withstand a 3A draw and a 700mA charge rate. One fizzled. Another dropped to 0.1V AFTER charging  I threw the whole bunch out  

As another CPF'er said "You can go broke trying to save money". I've learned my lesson too 

The situation is even worse with AA cells. With the race to pack ever increasing capacity into them, some manufacturers sacrifice discharge rate for mAH numbers because those are more marketable.


----------



## Pokerstud

I'd go with the Elite 4000 or 4500 at the bottom of the page:

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/?sid=895943&pgid=loosecells&chem=NIMH


----------



## mudman cj

+1. I am very impressed with the Elite 4500s. Surprisingly, they haven't even exhibited much self discharge, though this may change over time. They are about 1 year old now.


----------



## medicmerlynn

i was actually looking for something to do with the 2D, 3D, and 4D m*gs i got from Lowes on black friday.... all $10 so i thought what the hey.... i'll be modding a M*g85 outta the 3D and ROPs out of the 2D and 4D... I just wanted to know if the batteries would be rechargeable, or if infact rechargeable ould be the way to go... not sure on this front as far as incans go... please lemme know, and if anyone is feeling REALLY generous, please send me a pm...


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I have a pair of 18650 Li-Ion in my 2D ROP.

And rechargeable is the ONLY way to fly!


----------



## KevinL

Rechargeables are a MUST 

Alkaline or traditional lithium chemistry go  and bad things happen. 

Rechargeables, in addition to their ability to be refilled, have another special characteristic: they are able to handle the high CURRENT ratings. 

Imagine if you were given a milk carton with a hole the size of a needle in it to pour the milk from. You'd still be able to get a whole liter or pint or whatever of milk out of the carton, just that it would be very slow. If you got REALLY impatient and squeezed the milk carton hard enough it would go pop and you'd have milk all over the place. 

Analogies all have their limitations but you get the idea of what happens if you squeeze non-rechargeable cells. The ROP has VERY high current demands and it may even be risky to run it on non-rechargeables. 

Rechargeables would be like having a reuseable milk bottle with a 1" mouth. You'd be able to pour the contents in and out very quickly.


----------



## KevinL

Redirected from another thread (to see original post, click the arrow at the beginning of the quote)



MikeSalt said:


> I think most of these adapters are coming from FiveMega in the Custom B/S/T forum. It is an absolute peach to use. The charging jack feature means that you do not even have to take the pack out of the flashlight to charge.
> 
> My original ROP was in a 6D with 6 NiMH D-cells. However, I later discovered that the Uniross cells I used were basically repackaged AA cells. The quality was poor (made in France) and they could not withstand the abuse at 4 amps. They are now powering a Mag-num Xenon star 6-cell with satisfactory results.
> 
> I salvaged the ROP-specific parts of the 6D to build one of my 2D ROPs. The 6D always got alot of negative attention due to its menacing size. 2D does not have this problem, and it is actually EDC-able! In fact, I am writing this from work, with my 2D ROP in my rucksack.
> 
> Another good feature of the 2D is the charging facility. With the D-cells, I had no choice but to charge in the trickle charger (16 hours!). With the FM charging adapter, I can use an R/C fast charger to charge the Eneloops in about an hour, and the Nosrams in 40 minutes (charge Eneloops at no greater than 2 amps!!!)



Phew, for once the French get dissed instead of the Chinese  (no offence to anybody.. bad quality can very well be universal!)

One of the things that annoyed me the most was having to unload all the cells from my early 3toD adapters and they were made from plastic - they were designed that way. Especially in a Mag85! Nine cells, and if you put the lid on the battery canisters the wrong way, they would short out cells with potentially nasty consequences. Gah. The early days of incans. Nice to see we have better holders nowadays. This could also explain why I never built a 2D ROP for myself although I acknowledged that the configuration was entirely possible. 

The Mag-Num Star is a 1 amp if I recall correctly. Quite forgiving on batteries. 

My 4D has a stick of six SubC resistance-welded together. Definitely agreed it is far more convenient to charge a pack than it is to charge individual cells!


----------



## Icebreak

mudman cj said:


> +1. I am very impressed with the Elite 4500s. Surprisingly, they haven't even exhibited much self discharge, though this may change over time. They are about 1 year old now.



I don't know why they behave that way but I'll say that I've experienced the same performance regarding self discharge. Odd but true.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Icebreak said:


> I don't know why they behave that way but I'll say that I've experienced the same performance regarding self discharge. Odd but true.




Cool, I have always liked the look of the 5C Rop you built, but the thing that put me off was inherant Nimh self discharge.

Can you say any more on the lack of self discharge? How long do you tend to leave it and % or V loss over time?

I have a 5C on the way, and no other mod configuration planned for it at the mo, so may well visit this option. :twothumbs


----------



## Per Arne

Hi,

I have just put together an 2D ROP and my questions are:
- what is the runtime w/ 6AA NiMH 2500mAh or 2700mAh?
- what is the runtime w/ 6x Li-ion 14500?
- what is the runtime w/ 6AA Hybrio / Eneloop 2100mAh?
- does any of this set-ups increase or decrease the 3854-H (600 Lumen) or the 3854-L (290 Lumen) Output and if so how much?
- what is the runtime useing 8AA NiMH / Hybrio / Eneloop and would also the Lumen Output be affected depending on the battery used?

thanks,

PA


----------



## LumenHound

Per Arne said:


> - what is the runtime useing 8AA NiMH / Hybrio / Eneloop and would also the Lumen Output be affected depending on the battery used?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> PA


8 AA NiMH cells will instaflash the bulbs. You can use 7 rested Eneloops for maximum brightness. Don't know about 7 Hybrio cells though.

Low bulb draws 1.8 amps, High bulb draws 4.1~4.3 depending on batteries.

Check the discharge plots for the various cells you mention in the graphs Silverfox posted to determine run time.

NiMH Battery Shoot Out
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/79302

Li-ion Battery Shoot Out
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/117117


----------



## djblank87

I just odered 6 more Pelican 3854 bulb kits cause I really thought they were not going to make them anymore . O'well I guess this means make more ROP's :thumbsup:.


----------



## jake25

I tried to read as much as i can but might ahve missed it. 

i've heard about modiying the mag switch to lower resistance, where can i find sites about this? any help? thanks


----------



## LumenHound

jake25 said:


> I tried to read as much as i can but might ahve missed it.
> 
> i've heard about modiying the mag switch to lower resistance, where can i find sites about this? any help? thanks


 
I think this thread from 2 years ago is what you are after.


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## Beamshot

What kind of runtime can I expect to get from A 6d mag with the ROP low bulb?


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## iSleep

I have a 6D mag ... and most of the parts to build the ROP ... 

But I'm now stuck n a rut ... Should I march on with using the 6D as the host or should I buy a smaller, nimbler, less menacing 2D/2C Mag as the host ? 

The battery cost and runtime is one thing ... but from what I have read in the posts about ROP, is that the 4D/4C is the optimum size for the ROP ... Comments and thoughts anyone ?


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## medicmerlynn

isleep, i replied to a thread just today about this. i'm looking to build a 3D and a 4D mod... got the 2D mod going, just waiting for parts in the mail... don't know what i want to do... i'm not opposed to buying another host, i just wanted to use what i have so far, then i'll upgrade as it goes. lemme know what you decide on.


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## davidt

My love for high powered incandescants have grown over the past month.

I went out today and bought a the dark grey 2d maglite for my first hotwire.

For my batteries I am planning to purchase lithium ion D sized batteries. The only ones I could find are these: http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3985.

What do you guys think of these? With 5ah these would provide serious runtimes in a 2D maglite.

Does anyone know if anyother D sized lithium ions are available?


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## KevinL

iSleep said:


> I have a 6D mag ... and most of the parts to build the ROP ...
> 
> But I'm now stuck n a rut ... Should I march on with using the 6D as the host or should I buy a smaller, nimbler, less menacing 2D/2C Mag as the host ?
> 
> The battery cost and runtime is one thing ... but from what I have read in the posts about ROP, is that the 4D/4C is the optimum size for the ROP ... Comments and thoughts anyone ?



One thought - if you do not wish to deal with NiMH and pack chargers and all that, you could pick up a couple of protected 18650s from AW ($12 each if I recall correctly) and $15 for the charger or something like that. Double check prices with him as I'm just writing off the top of my head. Then build your ROP in a 2C and you get a great light, cheap


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## iSleep

Should be building 2 ROP now ... 

(1) 2C Mag, ROP-LO, AW 18650 Protected Lithium, MagRing2 "C", Li-Ion battery tube, MagCTower from download, FM MOP Dual-Function Reflectors, Borofloat lens ... 

(2) 6D Mag, ROP-HI, 6*NiMH battery pack, stock switch, FM MOP Dual-Function Reflectors, Borofloat lens ...

This should do it ... One High and one Low set-up ... I should be building the 2C first ... as the 6D build cost will be kind of nutty ...


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## medicmerlynn

iSleep said:


> Should be building 2 ROP now ...
> 
> (1) 2C Mag, ROP-LO, AW 18650 Protected Lithium, MagRing2 "C", Li-Ion battery tube, MagCTower from download, FM MOP Dual-Function Reflectors, Borofloat lens ...
> 
> ...


 
isleep, do you have a thread on this? this actually seems like a very viable build for me until AW gets more 3300mAh C li-ions in stock so i can finish my 5761. anyway, seems like a very good use of the 2C host i have with 3xcr123s in right now. also, what is MagRing2 "C"? you've piqued my interest...


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## robm

links:
Roar of the Pelican (Lithium Edition) homepage 
Downloads MagRing2

Were you planning on using the 2 x 18650 for the 5761, or with a ROP in the meantime (until you can get the AW C's)?

The reason I ask is that the 5761 really draws current - > 5A, which is at the very limit of most 18650 cells - over 2C discharge, and trips the protection on most cells.


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## iSleep

Nah, This buid is also created by Kevin ... 

MagRing2, MagCTower and the battery tube are product from fellow member, download ...

The MagRing2 is used to accomodate the batteries without damaging the taill cap of the Mag ... as a bonus, it is an anti-roll device too ... 

MagCTower is a heatsink for Mag Cs ... to wick heat away from the switch unit ... 

The links are here MagRing2, MagCTower

P.S : Can tell me more details about your 5761 through PM ?


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## Empyfree

Beamshot said:


> What kind of runtime can I expect to get from A 6d mag with the ROP low bulb?



This Is completely reliant on your choice of battery. Mine runs for aaages on six GP9000 mAh D Cells... Ruddy bright as well, but very heavy. :duck:


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## funkymonkey1111

i would like to build one of these ROP's, but I have a 3D maglight. All the specs seem to be for 2D, 4D, 6D. will this system not work with a 3D light?


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I think you could do it with a D size spacer. A round head bolt of the correct length (can be up to 3/4" longer) with nuts and washers leaving some bolt protruding from the last washer to go into the spring.

I had more 2D adapters than need so I have a few 3D lights done this way.

EDIT: I suppose brass hardware would be better than plated, but plated works ok for me.


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## Justboy

Hi, I'm planning to build an ROP as my first mod.

I'm thinking I want to go in the Mag C direction since I've heard this can be done using Sub-C NiMH batteries that fit directly into the Mag C body? I'd rather do this than mess about with lots of AA's and a holder. Does this require extra modifications and is it more difficult than the standard Mag D and holder configuration? I've seen some people have to bore out the tailcaps on their Mag's and other similar things? I'm hoping to just put together the Mag, bulbs, reflector, lens, NiMH charger and go. 

Also where would you recommend I get hold of some of these Sub-C NiMH cells?

Gonna get the bulbs and lens off Lighthound and the reflector off someone on CPF, sound about right?

Thanks for the help these forums are really great!


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## FlashSpyJ

So if one have a 2D rop which he wants to sell, how much can one ask for?
Im selling mine...
but Im not sure if the price is right.


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## Raoul_Duke

FlashSpyJ said:


> So if one have a 2D rop which he wants to sell, how much can one ask for?
> Im selling mine...
> but Im not sure if the price is right.


I guess it depends on how you made it...what components it has.


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## xcrucialsx

I have a 2d mag, 9AA holder with 8 eneloops and dummy... with the high bulb how many lumen is it putting out?


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## LukeA

xcrucialsx said:


> I have a 2d mag, 9AA holder with 8 eneloops and dummy... with the high bulb how many lumen is it putting out?



Not quite sure how you're going to get 9AAs in a 2D mag...


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## xcrucialsx

ha. I don't know what i was thinking... im sitting here looking at the holder... 8AA Holder, 7 eneloops , 1 dummy battery.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Probably brighter and Whiter than mine on 6 Hybrids which ain't too shabby...

I don't drive it harder because I can't easily replace it.


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## FlashSpyJ

2D body, like new
fivemegas 6AA adapter
fivemegas dual reflector MOP
2 X Boro float lens, (one extra)
16 Titanium AA NiMh in 4 4XAA cases
4 Low, 4 High ROP bulbs
one high bulb used 4 times

I have a buyer for it on an advertisement page, the price Im selling it for there are $150.

But now I dont know If I want to part from it, the runtime sucks and its no fun loading all the cells, putting them in and out etc. But I kinda like it anyway...


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## chewy78

KevinL said:


> Redirected from another thread (to see original post, click the arrow at the beginning of the quote)
> 
> 
> 
> Phew, for once the French get dissed instead of the Chinese  (no offence to anybody.. bad quality can very well be universal!)
> 
> One of the things that annoyed me the most was having to unload all the cells from my early 3toD adapters and they were made from plastic - they were designed that way. Especially in a Mag85! Nine cells, and if you put the lid on the battery canisters the wrong way, they would short out cells with potentially nasty consequences. Gah. The early days of incans. Nice to see we have better holders nowadays. This could also explain why I never built a 2D ROP for myself although I acknowledged that the configuration was entirely possible.
> 
> The Mag-Num Star is a 1 amp if I recall correctly. Quite forgiving on batteries.
> 
> My 4D has a stick of six SubC resistance-welded together. Definitely agreed it is far more convenient to charge a pack than it is to charge individual cells!



I have actually put 3 sub c's in a maglite with a tle-6exb, but i plan on doing a full rop in my 4d mag very soon with 6 sub c cells. I could rig them to actually charge them individually in my maha mh-c808m charger, which was a plus. First i'll try with a magnum star 6d lamp, and if it works i will go all out. 

#3854 pelican bulbs
smo reflector
ucl or boro float lens


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## Unforgiven

Continue here


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