# Your honest opinion on SF M6?



## lyte~speede

Hello all,

I want to start off by saying the following:

I'm NOT knocking the M6. Its build quality and iconic status will go down in history. AND, I DO own one. It fills a limited niche in my collection. Note the key word "limited". I'm sure many of you agree. 

Now, here is the question I'm looking for honest answers/opinions for:

Is such a short and unregulated run time with the MN20 (not to mention the MN21) outdated or past its prime??-OR-perhaps TOO limiting?

The stage is yours...


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## Groundhog66

I bought one, thought it was awesome but didn't really have a NEED for it so I sold it. A few months later I was really regretting passing it on, so I bought another. Had it for a few months and realized once again that I really have no use for it, so again it was sold. GREAT light, but with some of the regulated mods out there now I feel there are better options for me personally.


Tim


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## paulr

I don't think you should evaluate a light like this in functional or technological terms. It's more like a classic sports car. No it's not computerized and it's less efficient than the latest LED marvels. Yes it will give you a rush of adrenalin followed by an enormous smile every time you use it.


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## lyte~speede

<--paulr. Well said. I wish I could pull the plug on this thread and just go home.

<--hog66. You sir, sound exactly like me (decsion~regret~re-aquire~confirm initial decsion~repeat) and this is why I asked the question in the first place.


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## :)>

It is my opinion that incandescent lights in general are past their prime and being an incandescent, the M6 is not excluded. I do own one and I would not use it if I had to power it with primaries; fortunately, it runs excellently off of AW's C-cell LiIon's. 

It is also my opinion that while the incandescent lights are generally past their prime, LED's have not fully come into their prime yet to challenge high output long throwing lights like the M6. I was reminded of this when I took my kids on a walk on the beach last night and lit up the occasional top floor of a dark condo:naughty: Strong throwing LED lights could also reach the top floor of the condo, but they could not "bathe" the area in a flood of light like the M6 could (even with the MN20 and not the MN21). 

So my opinion on the M6, and I always give my honest opinion:thumbsup:, is that the M6 still sits at the very top of the current flashlight heap and it looks to be the light that can stay there so long as battery advancements help it to run without the financial sting of replacing 6 primaries per battery change. I don't think that it is a classic yet.


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## Lobo

IMHO, the incans are far from out of the game yet. LEDs are superior in many ways, but many people (me included) prefer incans for better colour rendition, seeing details etc. That being said, I still mainly use LEDs since the other advantages weighs out the incans advantage in most applications I use a light for.

Just a curious question, how would the M6 and a good ROP compare? You seem to get better runtime and greater output to a lower cost in a ROP. What's the M6 advantage? Better beam? Sturdier?


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## leukos

The funny thing about the M6 is folks quickly fork over $300+ to own one and then very soon afterward look for an economical way to run it (ie, rechargeable). It certainly is not an economical light in its stock form. There have been some good regulated rechargeable packs available for this light in the past, and may be some again in the future. The thing about selling lights is that new products are always becoming available. You may be discontent with the M6 now, but in a month or two, a new exciting mod or product will become available for it, and then you won't even be able to find an M6 (this happened when js' M6-R came out and AWR began his threads about his rechargeable pack). I've learned just to hang on to some lights. Who is to say that a new battery technology is not just around the corner that might give us 4x or even 10x the current capacity of Li-ions? http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=183485 All those folks who poopoo SF because they can't run on 18xxx sized Li-ions will have little to say if new batteries could power your light for 8 hours. Who knows? But the M6 is still a great light for what it was intended for. I know LED technology has advanced tremedously, but until it can exactly replicate what an incandescent does for my eyes out in the woods, I'll still be sticking with my dinosaur incans.


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## LED61

I used to own two, now only one. I will NEVER part with it. There are some specific uses for mine to look momentarily at things at a distance. Other than that, I'd say my A2 aviator and WE Raider are sufficient incandescent light out in the woods where a number of trees are nearby. The M6 just shines back too much light and it is blinding.
As far as incandescents go, outdoors they are my favorite color rendering tools. Until LED's can match similar color temperature there will be no replacement. I have been walking my coffee farm at night lately as we are in picking season and the Raider and Aviator have been the mainstays. No M6 for this purpose.


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## Size15's

I have a few M6's and use them quite a lot. They are my grab light for when I really need light - especially outdoors.

They are my single largest outlay of SF123As - likely at least one SF72BB (72 SF123A 'brick') a year.

Well worth it in my opinion.

Al


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## Illum

to be brutally honest the surefire M6 is
too heavy for EDC
too big for us Asian guys to hold with one hand
ridiculous output beyond what is necessary for practical everyday outdoor life
with the MN15 installed its ridiculously long running which came as an irony because after using surefires for awhile I tend to think the light will go dead tomorrow
so far I still haven't justified why I spent so much on that one light, for the price of a McluxIII-PD [which was a steal for an M6 at $270] at least theres a low mode:shrug:
as a long time 1MCP user it blew my mind something small enough to fit in my pocket [heavy, very heavy] can do the same with something that can't even fit in my backpack and doesn't mind getting wet 
that being said...I <3 my M6


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## lyte~speede

I wish someone would offer up a M6-R or simillar these days--maybe a thread like this will re-ignite interest and demand. I have just enough electronics background to caution:be dangerous) and to design and fabricate a cell-pack--just no time.

Oh, and again I'm reminded I gotta get a MN15.


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## Daniel_sk

A battery eating incan monster . No way I could afford or enjoy this light running on primaries. But for me, it's the most beautiful incan flashlight. 

BTW. I wonder how does the runtime compare on 2x C lion to primaries? Stupid question - would 2x D cells fit with an extender? (sorry I don't own a M6, so I don't have an idea how much space does it have inside).


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## ttran97

The M6 wasn't designed for casual use by non-LEO or non-military...so it's understandable that many of us who have one rarely use it. I love both of my M6's, but one of them is always in a protected case, totally untouched. That's my "mint condition M6 that I will sell if my house burned down and I seriously need cash" light. My other one is a different story. I have the beam cover on it to protect the head, and an MN15 bulb in there for extended use. 

It's not the most versatile or economical light, true. But you're paying for quality, reliability, uniqueness, and the pride of being an M6 owner. How many times have you shown off your light to others and they're simply in awe by it? Not everything we buy has to be versatile or economical. If we always did that, why would we ever buy Sony laptops, Mercedes/BMW/Lexus cars, Nikon cameras, etc etc.? Brand X, Y, or Z could easily replace those other brands in terms of utility...but there's a reason why those other things cost more, yet plenty of people buy them...and remain loyal to those brands.


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## EV_007

It's not my primary light, but one I am happy to have with me when going out into the night.


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## ugrey

I always know exactly where my M6, first aid kit and weapons are, and I always take them with me when I travel. When the power goes out the M6 is in my back pocket or right next to me. It is carried alot and used very little, but when I need it, I NEED it. No, it is not a "check the fuse box" kind of light. It is the ultimate "bump in the night light". The M6 makes the rest of my lights look dim.


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## zehnmm

Not to hijack this thread, but I not too long ago decided to not purchase an M6. Instead, I spent about the same money on the KT4 turbohead kit (comes with MN15 and MN16; turbohead is the same as what is on the M6....) I put the turbohead on a Leef 2x18650 C-M body, along with one of Leef's tailcaps. Main reason: I use my light about 15 to 20 min. each day. If I used the M6 with CR123s, my cost would be very much higher than with the rechargeables. At the time of my decision, the big-Leef bodies were not yet out. 

Having said all this, it is kind of an-imitation-is-the-best-form-of-flattery thing. I made my choice to take advantage mainly of the protected 18650s, relatively easy to charge in home or in car, the feel in my hand, and some other considerations.

Were it not for my individual preferences and goals that were met with my Leef configuration, I would have purchased the M6 without any question.

My last point about the M6 and similar choices like the one I made: I have 4-wheel drive on my truck. I only use it about 10% of the time. But when I need it, I need it. In my experience, you get 4-wheel drive for that 10%. I feel the same way about a great light such as the M6.


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## Brozneo

I have three M6's - I love the look and build of the light however IMO they are a throwing machine only, they are too bright and the hotspot is too focused for close / medium range work, that is why I have one M6 in stock form and then the other two have mutliple LEDs in them for the medium / close work - As I said I love the M6 form factor and hence had to get an M6 modded over a Maglite for duty.


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## powernoodle

I have never touched one, so I don't know what I'm talking about. :laughing:

But until SF makes a rechargeable flavored M6, I'm not interested. No way I'm going to feed that thing primaries.


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## Lightraven

Haven't used mine a lot, but. . .

A week or so ago, I came around a corner to check out the scene, when I came face-to-face with about a dozen bad guys (some badder than others, but you get the idea).

I pull out my Wolf Eyes Boxer 24watt High Intensity Discharge. "Wait till they get a load of this!" I thought. So, I clicked it on. And we waited. And waited. "Is this thing on?" I wondered.

I gave up, slung the Boxer, and pulled out the Surefire M6 and launched photons towards the closest guy's face. He backed off. I went to seize his illegal item and he came back in. I swung my baton. The crowd started to voice disapproval and the closest guy grabbed a long piece of metal rebar with a hook on the end and it started to get a little close to my face. Drew my gun. They got angry and I said to them, "This is the game." Holstered my gun. Two SWAT guys arrived after 10 minutes. Fired non-lethal after verbal exchange. Two more other agency officers arrived. Bad guys ran for their lives. I guess that agency has a reputation. . .

Honest opinion of M6? It is a useful light for these situations.


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## Team Member

It eats primaries like a kid eats cookies but you got to love that light, atleast I do..

A throwmonster like Tiablo A9 is nice but nothing beats an incan like the M6.
I like the possibilty to flood an area with light when needed and my M6 is the only light that I´ve owned that will do so.


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## ampdude

The color spectrum/output of "white" led's is too high and unnaturally bland, making them less useful lights. After all they are basically filtered blue led's. I also don't buy the "forever bulb" and "they never die" marketing pitch. I've had more led flashlights burn out on me than incans. And led's grow dimmer over time. This can happen with incans as well if the bulb blackens, but I've only seen that rarely.

I think that battery technology will continue to improve to the point that it will marginalize the efficiency advantages led's have in certain applications, such as flashlights. Full spectrum solid state lighting would probably change things though.

So as far as incan lighting being past it's prime, I would have to say no.

Now if we're talking about the M6 in stock form being past its prime, I'd definately have to agree with you.  

It's still a great, bright, tough light though.


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## RoyJ

The thing is, how many M6's truely get used to their capacity? I doubt even the special forces really *NEED* a light like that.

Let's see, you're a highly trained special force agent, parachuting into deep enemy territory in Southamerica, at night. Your nigh vision fails, seconds before hitting ground, you pull out an M6 and do a quick 500 lm blast into the swamp to make sure you're clear of alligators...

Sounds a little too "Mission impossible" like to be of any real use?

Seriously, how many every day situations are there in our daily lives where a lesser light won't do? LEOs included. A ROP/Mag85, or even a WF500 will do 99% the time. And the other 1%? if you're in that much trouble, I doubt an M6 is gonna save you.

Maybe an M16 would be more approperiate.


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## BSBG

Not sure how to reply as there are already a lot of good thoughts in this thread. I have 2 M6s at the moment. One has an MN21, fresh SF 123s and is near the door for any serious outdoor investigation. The other houses an MN15 and is for extended woods walks and such. Spares carriers, a Pelican micro case with 12 123s and a spare MN20, and a spare filled BT20 are not far away.

Sure, it eats batteries with the HOLA, but who stands there with their thumb on the button for 20 minutes? Used intermittently, I have never felt like it was going to flicker out too soon. In fact, it seems to take a long time to dim enough to warrant changing the batteries. It can be embarrassing if you go too long and someone's MN20 is brighter but you don't realize it.

I also have a KT4 / Leef body / 18650 set up that sees a lot of use with an MN20. Sort of a 'supersized' M4.

None of them are ideal for a general night hiking light, but I feel better with one in a holster on my pack belt in case the old A2 needs some long range help.

To me, nothing beats it combination of size, output and toughness, yet.


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## lyte~speede

...I love this CPF community.


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## [email protected]

A friend of mine is "testing" the Lumens Factory bulb with AW123's, so far he's very happy with the combo, and it puts out the most light.  
(Sorry, no runtimes, but according to the specs it ranges from ~35 to ~50 minutes. )


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## MikeLip

Why does all this make me want an M6?


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## lyte~speede

Some incredibly thoughtful and intellegent answers here, let alone the first person stories. I'm not trying to justify my ownership of a M6, gather reasons to purchase another or convince myself to sell the one I have. It amazes me that out of the thousands of flashlight products out there that certain models gain such notability.


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## leukos

RoyJ said:


> The thing is, how many M6's truely get used to their capacity? I doubt even the special forces really *NEED* a light like that.....Seriously, how many every day situations are there in our daily lives where a lesser light won't do? LEOs included. A ROP/Mag85, or even a WF500 will do 99% the time. And the other 1%? if you're in that much trouble, I doubt an M6 is gonna save you.
> 
> Maybe an M16 would be more approperiate.


 

Try mounting your ROP/Mag85 on your M16 and see what happens.


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## cnjl3

I own one M6 and the only reason I would like another one is so that I could use the HOLA in one and the X-LOLA in the other one. My MAG85 is good but I have to be careful with not only centering the bulb but also making sure that it stays centered. I am pretty sure that if I were to drop my MAG85 the bulb would not longer be centered in the KIU ceramic socket. When I go hunting I carry my lights in a foam lined carrying case and “some” of my hosts using the KIU ceramic bulb holder will shift. The drive to my hunting spot is mostly black top, but the last 8 miles is a caliche/base combination that is a pretty rough ride and everything tends to vibrate itself loose, never once has anything ever vibrated itself tighterJ
I know that my M6 will not suffer any melting, or bulb misalignment, and my M6 is my ultimate “bump in the night” light. It is the only light I would not sell.


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## Illum

[email protected] said:


> A friend of mine is "testing" the Lumens Factory bulb with AW123's, so far he's very happy with the combo, and it puts out the most light.
> (Sorry, no runtimes, but according to the specs it ranges from ~35 to ~50 minutes. )



still haven't laid your finger on the light yet Bart?


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## NeonLights

I've owned three or four M6's in the past five years or so, but currently have none, just an M4. I really liked them, usualy used the LOLA, but occasionally would fire up the HOLA. My wife and I actually used them on numerous occasions when our black Newfoundland got out of our fence and wandered into the neighbors yards at night. We live in the country with close neighbors, and few of the back or front yards are lit. The M6's would allow us to see our all black dog at night at distances of 100+ yards and we were able to safely return him home. I'll likely pick up another M6 in a year or three, but for now it isn't a really big priority (we currently have a Saint Bernard and she is much easier to find at night since she is mostly white).


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## woodrow

Its the ONLY incan I truly regret never buying. It is one of the only above reproach one of a kind lights ever made. Like a old Corvette stingray with a 427 in it. Even a guy with a 600HP $250,000 Fererri would still walk around it and admire it. It is still one of the greatest lights ever made...and after how many years??? since it was released... Even if a new led comes out with 600 out the front lumens on a AA cell...there has never been a cooler light. (except maybe the beast and maxabeam) 

And this comes from a unabashed led guy.


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## Monocrom

I've handled a couple of M6s. A truly excellent light.... that doesn't fit securely in my hand. 

If it fits securely in your's, buy it!

Best I can do is an M4.


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## Rzr800

EV_007 said:


> It's not my primary light, but one I am happy to have with me when going out into the night.


 
Agreed; it's relatively heavy and more than just a light in my hand.


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## [email protected]

Illum_the_nation said:


> still haven't laid your finger on the light yet Bart?



No, I'm waiting on some onther things as well so it can all go in 1 box.


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## :)>

[email protected] said:


> A friend of mine is "testing" the Lumens Factory bulb with AW123's, so far he's very happy with the combo, and it puts out the most light.
> (Sorry, no runtimes, but according to the specs it ranges from ~35 to ~50 minutes. )



Please tell me what lamp that he is running. I have the EO-M3T 380 lumen lamp, and it does not make good contact with the batteries causing it to function intermittently. Also, it says 380 lumens, but it does not appear as bright to me as my MN20 does:shrug:


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## Tempest UK

I really enjoy my M6...so much so that I bought another one to run the MN20  Just need one more to run an MN15 and I'll be done...

There's just something about the M6 that appeals to me, despite the cost of running on on SF123a cells. It just seems worth it 

Regards,
Tempest


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## [email protected]

Goatee, it's the HO-M6R High Output 700 Lumens Lamp Assembly I linked in the specs.


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## :)>

Gracias Bart!


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## Illum

lyte~speede said:


> I wish someone would offer up a M6-R or simillar these days--



talk to js, he has sufficient information from modding M6Rs to prove to you that rechargeable is actually more expensive than that of conventional primaries


Bart....you didn't come up with the AW rcr123A & 700 lumen LA all on your own did you? :nana:


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## [email protected]

Nope, a guy called "Illum" or something like that kindly researched the available options and shared them with me. 
Last I heard is he still uses primaries... :shrug: :duh2::nana:


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## Katdaddy

We live in the country and have a lot of open space behind the house. It is 230+ yards to the tree line across the pasture. I had one of those large Coleman spotlights for looking across the pasture(purchased pre CPF), but it was just too large and unwieldy for any practical application. I got a flashaholic urge for an M6 a few months back and went for it. Now I have a light that I can hold along with a firearm if necessary and see all the way to the trees with no problem. This is with the LOLA so I consider this plenty of light with a decent runtime. Did it hurt to spend that much on a light I use every now and then? Yes! Was it worth it? Hell yes!!


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## RoyJ

leukos said:


> Try mounting your ROP/Mag85 on your M16 and see what happens.


 
When was the last time you *needed* to mount a 500 lm light on an M16?

SWAT teams and special forces almost never need to mount M6s onto their weapons. Besides, there're countless special forces from all nations around the world that do their jobs very effectively, without ever having access to an M6.


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## paulr

Using rechargeables or LOLA almost misses the point of an M6


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## Size15's

RoyJ said:


> When was the last time you *needed* to mount a 500 lm light on an M16?
> 
> SWAT teams and special forces almost never need to mount M6s onto their weapons. Besides, there're countless special forces from all nations around the world that do their jobs very effectively, without ever having access to an M6.


SureFire's M500B WeaponLight (WeaponLight version of the M6) is used mostly by those on sentry or perimeter duties.
Also, those having to patrol and search rural areas on a regular basis may find the M500B gives them the advantage they need.

You're right that it's not a common option - it may be they have the AB or A Lamp Module Kits so they can configure the WeaponLight for the particular tasks being performed. I imagine that gets pretty heavy pretty quickly, and for close-quarters / indoors use it may be too bright in some instances.


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## chalshus

It's a great light!



I use it for work, outdoors. Nice size, very good grip, high quality in all parts. I use the stock 500lumen LA.


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## JNewell

Anyone using the Lumens Factory HO M6R (700 lumen) LA with RCR123A cells? Battery Junction has a great looking charger + 900mAh Li cell arrangement?


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## Illum

JNewell said:


> Anyone using the Lumens Factory HO M6R (700 lumen) LA with RCR123A cells? Battery Junction has a great looking charger + 900mAh Li cell arrangement?



read post 25...or just talk to bart


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## JNewell

Illum_the_nation said:


> read post 25...or just talk to bart


 
Well, I have the LF HO-M6R and a set of Tenergy 3v 123Rs on order...we shall see. Star light, star bright...


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## ugrey

RoyJ, I live in one of Americas top 5 murder and violent crime cities. I live on a dead end street in a "good" area. I have shined my M6 in a few drunk's/druggie's faces over 10 years time. Do not believe SFs statement that 60 lumens is enough to "blind" an adversary. I had one guy that my M6 did not seem to faze. I promise you, you want all the lumens you can get with an agressive person and you MUST have another level of force ready.
Some people really do need 500 lumens.


RoyJ, Does your government trust citizens with semi automatic weapons and high capacity magazines?


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## LED61

60 lumens is really a close quarters blinding amount. For far away you need more.


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## Illum

ugrey said:


> Do not believe SFs statement that 60 lumens is enough to "blind" an adversary.



your application of the light is incorrect....and blinding is usually momentarily before they recover. theres no light [apart from HID] I know of where anyone can be blinded just by you standing there and pointing the light at them

I've blinded people with photons before....don't tell me thats over 60 lumens :shrug:

I think an HID might be best for you instead


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## Monocrom

Illum_the_nation said:


> I think an HID might be best for you instead


 
If they didn't need time to "rev up."


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## ABTOMAT

I never found a use for my M6. Too large to be easily pocketable, so I usually went with a modded Magcharger that was just as bright with better throw and rechargable batteries. Plus it cost a third of what the M6 did.

Ended up selling the Surefire, and other than the incredible coolness I don't miss it.


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## DaFABRICATA

I love my M6's!!

If I had to get rid of most of my lights, the M6 would be a keeper! You really understand it's utility once you use it outdoors where there is no ambiant light from the city. If you have to light something up far away....the M6 does just that.


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## nickz

I just picked up an M6 yesterday. My main use for the light is to keep in the car with the LOLA and HOLA's in a spare carrier and using the MN15 X-LOLA for general lighting tasks. I have probably around a dozen mag hotwires which are possible to use but several are powered by Li-Ion AW cells which from what I hear do not like cold weather below freezing which is very common in Illinois. The others are powered by NIMH so I dont want to mess with having to remember to take the light out and cycle the cells to keep a good charge. I don't want to end up needing the light and find it halfway discharged. Although I done a good job assembling the mags and paid alot of attention to details on them, I have on occasion flashed a bulb or dropped a battery pack (carrier) and had them break. My maglites are very reliable for general use when I am shining for wildlife with my son and daughter but there has been a few times when they let me down and I needed a light that would virtually never let me down.

I wanted a light that would always work, had no battery issues such as self discharging or cold weather and was rugged. I think I have found all of this in the M6. I did pick up fivemegas AW 2C extension for other general use and free lumens but have no problem using primaries also as the light is not going to see as much use as my mag 11 or other mag mods. It will probably see an average of 30 minutes to 1 hour of use per week with the X-LOLA setup. That will roughly be 6 cells every 2 to 3 weeks which is more than acceptable to me. Even using the LOLA setup I would likely only go through 6 cells every week or two. It fills a gap in my lights with a dependable, rugged, all weather light.


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## JNewell

Well, you are indirectly the reason that I've bought one, too.  It's quite a light. I have a Lumens Factory HO-M6R (700 lumen) LA on order...will be interested to see how that compares. Enjoy/thanks!


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## Team Member

I have the LF HO-M6R which I feed with AW RCR123. Sorry to say but I think it´s having a lower output than the MN21.

I haven´t been able to do a side by side comparsion but will do one in a week or two..(_when my second M6 arravies_ )

The HO-M6R _may_ have 700 bulb lumens..


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## Grox

Team Member said:


> I have the LF HO-M6R which I feed with AW RCR123. Sorry to say but I think it´s having a lower output than the MN21.
> 
> I haven´t been able to do a side by side comparsion but will do one in a week or two..(_when my second M6 arravies_ )
> 
> The HO-M6R _may_ have 700 bulb lumens..



I think you're right about this.

The MN21 outputs about 1000 bulb lumens on fresh batteries (approx 600 torch), so it stands to reason that the LF HO-M6R is somewhat dimmer.

And what's this I read about a _second_ M6?


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## Team Member

You can´t have too many SF M6..can you...?


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## Grox

Team Member said:


> You can´t have too many SF M6..can you...?



 :nana:

I only wish that I had more money!


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## Illum

Team Member said:


> You can´t have too many SF M6..can you...?



the current record stands at 4...I have yet to see a member post a picture of 5 M6s:naughty:
the guru has 3....just a thought


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## Team Member

Well, M6 don´t cost too much so 5 of them is not unbeliveable..

..some day..


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## MikeLip

Team Member said:


> Well, M6 don´t cost too much so 5 of them is not unbeliveable..
> 
> ..some day..



We have differing ideas on how much too much is 

I still want an M6 though!


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## Tempest UK

Only 3 more to hold the record then Would the award come with a letter of recognition from SureFire? :nana:

1st - MN21
2nd - MN20
3rd - MN15
4th - Crenellated Bezel (I would probably get all of the others with the scalloped bezel).
5th - Erm...one for good luck? The car? Poverty? 

There we go. Nice and justified. 

Regards,
Tempest


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## Team Member

Well, let me get you a hint on how much they would cost me if I bought a spanking new Surefire M6 in Sweden...

With todays exchange rate the price would be 804$...excluded shipping..

So for me 400$ is a bargain...


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## ttran97

I can easily get to 5 M6's....now where did I put that darn lottery ticket...? :thinking:  

 But seriously...I do want a 3rd one for sure since I don't have any of the crenellated bezels nor the "Guardian" models. Mine are just the flat bezels...not even scalloped, and "CombatLight" (*edit*: MagnumLight).


Edit: Been thinking and I hate to buy expensive lights this time of year. Call it "flashaholic guilt", but sometimes I feel kind of cruddy for spending $300-$400 on lights when people are standing in line at food shelters just to get a hot meal...

2nd Edit: By spending money on the light, I'm helping out the economy...and whoever it is that I'm buying the light from. Ahh...rationalization...my favorite defense mechanism.


----------



## MacTech

I'd *LOVE* to own a M6, but for me at least, it's well outside my price range, I'm an incan guy, I love my P91'ed G3, I can only look longingly at the M6, 500 lumens, gotta love it 

however, the other reason I wouldn't feel comfortable owning a M6 is it's prodigious battery appetite, especially with the HOLA, chewing through 6 batteries in 20 minutes, sorry, no

now a *rechargable* M6 I could probably ratonalize, but not one powered off primaries


----------



## Tempest UK

ttran97 said:


> I can easily get to 5 M6's....now where did I put that darn lottery ticket...? :thinking:
> 
> But seriously...I do want a 3rd one for sure since I don't have any of the crenellated bezels nor the "Guardian" models. Mine are just the flat bezels...not even scalloped, and "CombatLight".



Other way around for me. Mine are both "Guardian" models. If/when I get another it would be nice to make it one of the earlier versions 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## jayflash

I'm with paulr for the way I'll use my new gift from CPF member starflash. For me, anyway, the MN21 is the reason for having an M6. It's brighter than the, three, "+2MCP" large,heavy, search lights I own.

Although I love the form-follows-function design and appearance of the M6, I have several good, smaller, lighter, lights when 200, or less, lumens are needed.

You can bet I'll be seeking frequent reasons to use my new toy.

Finally, in spite of having other, nice, incan, lights, I feel like I'm really a member of the Incandescent Club, now. The M6 is my personal Holy Grail.

Thanks again, Santa starflash! :twothumbs


----------



## MSaxatilus

I have to admit that I am really an LED guy at heart. But that being said, my one and only incan light is the Surefire M6. This light continues to be the high-pressure-fire-hose of flashlights!! The MN21 provides an overwhelming amount of light in a relatively small package. Granted its not a EDC light, but for a bump-in-the-dark light, this thing is tops.

As with most Surefires, the build and feel of the light is simply top notch is very durable. My only complaint, as many others have suggested, is running the light off of primary cells. I have to agree that 6 primaries burned up in 20 minutes (unregualted) is a bit hard to swallow. Because of that, I've been using various home-grown LiON solutions to provide up to 35-40 minutes on a single charge in an unmodded host. With the relatively flat output of LiONs its as close as we can get to a regulated version of this light.

I know there are alot of faithful owners of the M6 that have been scampering for a regulated LiON solution. We came close a while back with one of our fellow CPFers grand idea, that unfortunately simply never panned out (the AWR HD-M6 Debacle!). I just hope that some of those guys are reading this post and realize that there is more than enough of us out there to justify a rechargeable LiON solution. 

Hopefully it will happen sooner than later. 

But back on topic, I see a replacement to my trusty M6 any time soon.

MSax


----------



## nickz

MSaxatilus said:


> Because of that, I've been using various home-grown LiON solutions to provide up to 35-40 minutes on a single charge in an unmodded host. With the relatively flat output of LiONs its as close as we can get to a regulated version of this light.


 

What LiIon setup have you been using?


----------



## MSaxatilus

> What LiIon setup have you been using?


 
SOLUTION #1:
I have been using a stack of six protected AW 17500 LiONs cells (2s3p) with a modified tailcup (similar to AWR's concept). Its a great mod as, it is completely reversable and doesn't require any modifications to the outside of the M6, and even better... no silly extensions. The entire bundle is held securely together with some very thing yet strong shrink wrap. I'm using the positive and negative end plates from a heavy duty Rayovac battery as endcaps for my battery pack. This provides approximately 35-40 minutes of runtime with a MN21, double that with an MN20, before the circut protection kicks in.

SOLUTION #2:
You could also utilize 2xAW "C" LiON Cells with the same modified tailcup arrangement. I haven't tried this yet but the lenght of two C cells is about the same as 2 17500s. Also, 1 AW cell has the same capacity as three 17500s in parallel. So I would suspect that the C cells would provide similar performance as long as they can handle the current draw. I just have to build a spacer to hold the C cells securely within the M6.

MSax


----------



## ttran97

All this talk about the M6 has led me to sell off my L4-BK/E2C kit and I'll be heading into San Francisco tomorrow to pick up my 3rd M6!!! I'm so excited! Man...when the M6-bug bites, it bites HARD.


----------



## Brozneo

Tempest UK said:


> 1st - MN21
> 2nd - MN20
> 3rd - MN15
> 4th - Crenellated Bezel (I would probably get all of the others with the scalloped bezel).
> 5th - Erm...one for good luck? The car? Poverty?


 
5th one - Milky modded with LEDs!


----------



## Team Member

> All this talk about the M6 has led me to sell off my L4-BK/E2C kit and I'll be heading into San Francisco tomorrow to pick up my 3rd M6!!! I'm so excited! Man...when the M6-bug bites, it bites HARD.



It sure does


----------



## Dorky1

MSaxatilus said:


> SOLUTION #2:
> You could also utilize 2xAW "C" LiON Cells with the same modified tailcup arrangement. I haven't tried this yet but the lenght of two C cells is about the same as 2 17500s. Also, 1 AW cell has the same capacity as three 17500s in parallel. So I would suspect that the C cells would provide similar performance as long as they can handle the current draw. I just have to build a spacer to hold the C cells securely within the M6.
> 
> MSax



Fivemega builds the spacer and extension kit here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177911

But.....AW is still out of "C" LiON Cells here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=169872

So I am here: :shakehead


----------



## zx7dave

I bought one. Didn't like the size. Sold it for a M4 and never regretted it.


----------



## Germ

I've lusted after the M6 for a while and finally held one yesterday :devil:

Lately I've been in a smaller is better mood and the M6 feels big. For my "big" light now I'm using a 2x18500 Leef bodied light with a P91 lamp assy.

Without a good rechargeable system the light is too impractical for me. Not to mention the price.

I think the M6 is due for a complete makeover. I'm really liking 3x123 lights now because you can use 2x18500 rechargeables or 3x123 primaries without changing the bulb. The M6 has a 3 series, 2 parallel battery arrangement anyway, why not make it where it holds the batteries inline? That way you could easily use 18500's or 123's and you wouldn't need a $90 battery holder  Or, go with AW's C cells from the start and slim that body some. Last, but not least, add regulation if practical.


----------



## seery

Germ said:


> I think the M6 is due for a complete makeover.


Surefire...If you are listening...PLEASE ignore the above and leave perfection as is.


----------



## CM

I had one, sold it due to the light not really filling a need (it just sat around most of the time). I missed the WOW factor, bought another one. You guessed it, I got rid of it again. I'm hoping to be able to resist the third cycle. With the latest improvements in LED's I think I will be successful in staving off the a third cycle. A three emitter Seoul or Cree light rivals the MN20 and I expect in a year or two, the MN21 will be eclipsed by lights with three emitters.


----------



## Brozneo

seery said:


> Surefire...If you are listening...PLEASE ignore the above and leave perfection as is.


 
I'm with you Seery!


----------



## Illum

seery said:


> Surefire...If you are listening...PLEASE ignore the above and leave perfection as is.



+1, the M6 is so perfect that even the guys over at group V is copying its body designs....the same with Palmblaze


----------



## Monocrom

seery said:


> Surefire...If you are listening...PLEASE ignore the above and leave perfection as is.


 
I'll tell PK he can stop working on that inexpensive, rechargeable option.


----------



## mikehill

Had one and love it. Sold it because of the battery life. A year later did the same again. Will never buy one again until a really great re-chargeable system with longish runtimes arrives. [email protected] 85's are taking over.
Having said that, it's a classic superb looking light. I love them. In my hands it felt like no other ever will. I just can't afford upwards of 20 123's a week.


----------



## MSaxatilus

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Germ*
> 
> 
> _I think the M6 is due for a complete makeover._
> 
> Surefire...If you are listening...PLEASE ignore the above and leave perfection as is.


 
Holy Cow! I'm with you Seery. The M6 is the best looking light in Surefire's lineup. I wouldn't touch a a thing either.

MSax


----------



## jayflash

I'm jumping onto Seery's bandwagon, too. The M6 was one light I wanted as much for the grip, appearance, and size as well as it's flamethrowing output.


----------



## Germ

seery said:


> Surefire...If you are listening...PLEASE ignore the above and leave perfection as is.


 
Like anyone listens to me anyway :devil:

What I meant was more of an internal makeover to come up with a good rechargeable solution that wouldn't prevent you from using primaries in a pinch.

I'd bet that SureFire toyed with a parallel battery arrangement, but maybe gave up on it for manfacturing reasons since a round body is much easier to make than an oval one. No doubt a parallel layout would make for a longer light too. Accomodating Li-Ion batteries has never been one of SureFire's priorities either. Anyway, if this ever happened this could be a new light that hopefully had the style of the M6.

The immediate goal would be to preserve the M6 as is. Despite the efforts of great people here, a rechargeable solution that you could simply swap for the 123 holder has elluded us. I would think SureFire could come up with that. It was the lack so far of a good rechargeable solution that made me think a re-thinking of the M6 was in order.

Appearance wise, the M6 is close to perfection. It would be a shame to tamper with that in any way. It could be a little slimmer though... 

I'm away from home on vacation now. On Christmas eve I found a gun shop not 10 miles away that might sell me a M6 for a little over $300. It calls to me. They have a Kroma too  The guy I talked to there said the SureFires weren't selling well. I got a G3L there for $45 Chrismas eve. I think they thought it was just a G3 and didn't know SF prices it at $89.


----------



## jayflash

OK, Germ, all is forgiven. :santa: Santa said so - in the spirit of Christmas. Besides, your further clarification makes good sense. 

Happy New Year and may it be a bright one.


----------



## seery

jayflash said:


> OK, Germ, all is forgiven. :santa: Santa said so - in the spirit of Christmas.


OK OK.....we'll let you slide this time! :naughty:


----------



## Germ

jayflash said:


> OK, Germ, all is forgiven. :santa: Santa said so - in the spirit of Christmas. Besides, your further clarification makes good sense.
> 
> Happy New Year and may it be a bright one.


 
Thanks guys! 

I went to the gun store and they have the one crenelated (drool) M6 marked at $330 with 15% off making it $280. The sales guy was very persuasive, but I said I'd think about it. The store is in California. I thought retailers had to sell SureFire lights for SureFire's price, in this case $399. Is that so?

It was out of the box so I fondled it. Maybe it isn't THAT big. I took the battery holder out and it looked smaller than I thought it would have. I think it had the high output bulb in it. It looked like an aircraft landing light when I turned it on 

Should I get it? Should I get it?

Edited to add:

You know, one of the things stopping me from getting a M6 is the thought that very soon we'll have LED lights that will outperform it, even in throw. I agree that LED's don't match the color rendition of incans, yet, but that may change in the future too. Or, the runtime and performance ratio compared to incans may be so good that we forgive the beam color. Does anyone even think about getting a small incan light like a 2AA Mag anymore? My Fenix P1D CE Q5 puts out about half again more light than my poor SureFire E2D.

At the rate things are going I think we will soon have 3 or even 2 cell LED lights that will challenge the M6. That is where I really like the drop-in versatility of the smaller SureFires.

What do you think?


----------



## Tempest UK

Germ said:


> Should I get it? Should I get it?



You know you want to  No collection is complete without _at least_ one.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## seery

Germ said:


> Should I get it? Should I get it?


At that price if you don't I will!


----------



## Brozneo

Germ said:


> Should I get it? Should I get it?


 
:naughty: Get it! Get it! :twothumbs


----------



## lyte~speede

What did I start with this thread? I should get a commission from SF--they know the extra cash will just go back to them (in purchases) anyway.


----------



## Germ

lyte~speede said:


> What did I start with this thread? I should get a commission from SF--they know the extra cash will just go back to them (in purchases) anyway.


 
Hehe, see what you did 

I just don't see myself getting the light 

So, psst, don't tell anyone, but the shop is Ronning Arms in Modesto, California. They have a shooting range, so they may be open late. Call them first for pricing and availability and make sure the 15% sale is still on. They had a few SureFires in a cabinet. All I can really remember was the one M6 and one Kroma. I bought their last G3L. Tell us if you got the M6


----------



## :)>

Germ said:


> You know, one of the things stopping me from getting a M6 is the thought that very soon we'll have LED lights that will outperform it, even in throw.



Maybe one day, but for now, it isn't really even close. Sure, an LED can throw a very bright needle point of light a long way but there is no LED or array of LED's that I have seen that can perform like the M6. 

I am an LED fan first and foremost, but even with my bias toward solid state lighting, I can't deny how unbelievably powerful the M6 is... especially the HOLA. I have owned a couple 3 MRV's and they throw a long reaching beam that really is impressive until you fire up the M6 next to it:naughty:


----------



## Monocrom

Germ said:


> So, psst, don't tell anyone, but the shop is Ronning Arms in Modesto, California. They have a shooting range, so they may be open late. Call them first for pricing and availability and make sure the 15% sale is still on. They had a few SureFires in a cabinet. All I can really remember was the one M6 and one Kroma. I bought their last G3L. Tell us if you got the M6


 
I'm going to laugh like Hell when seery posts he bought that M6.


----------



## MikeLip

Got mine on order and it should be here today according to FedEx! Can't wait to see what the fuss is about!


----------



## ttran97

MikeLip said:


> Got mine on order and it should be here today according to FedEx! Can't wait to see what the fuss is about!



Hope you got an MN15 with your order too. That will really make the M6 a lot more useful. It has really re-ignited my passion for the M6. Also, you might consider getting a tower module for the M6 from Milkyspit as well...but all that can wait, I suppose. A beamcover is a must if you plan on using the M6 a lot!  FM27. Ah, the spending never ends....


----------



## MikeLip

ttran97 said:


> Hope you got an MN15 with your order too. That will really make the M6 a lot more useful. It has really re-ignited my passion for the M6. Also, you might consider getting a tower module for the M6 from Milkyspit as well...but all that can wait, I suppose. A beamcover is a must if you plan on using the M6 a lot!  FM27. Ah, the spending never ends....



No, I didn't! That's a lower output than even the MN20? I'm guessing that boots your runtime to about two hours? Is it direct dropin?

Yeah, I found out how expensive this can all be!

Thanks!


----------



## ttran97

MikeLip said:


> No, I didn't! That's a lower output than even the MN20? I'm guessing that boots your runtime to about two hours? Is it direct dropin?
> 
> Yeah, I found out how expensive this can all be!
> 
> Thanks!




Here's the thread regarding the MN15. It's just a regular bulb so you just drop it in. X-LOLA

Basically, it is a little bit lower output...around 200 lumen...and runtime is 2.5 hours. Most of the time, the light will remain white, like it's psuedo-regulated. I think the MN15 is normally for the M3 turbo.

Well, congrats on joining the M6 club!  Take lots of pictures of your new light and don't let anyone touch it! haha.


----------



## Germ

ttran97 said:


> A beamcover is a must if you plan on using the M6 a lot!  FM27. Ah, the spending never ends....


 
I'm curious, why is the beamcover a must?

Did anyone buy that Modesto M6 yet? Someone needs to so I can quit thinking about it and get on with my vacation


----------



## ttran97

Germ said:


> I'm curious, why is the beamcover a must?
> 
> Did anyone buy that Modesto M6 yet? Someone needs to so I can quit thinking about it and get on with my vacation



Oh, just to protect the bezel from scratches and dings...the lens too. It easily flips open when you need to use the light, but protects it when you don't.


----------



## Illum

I have yet to figure out what can scratch pyrex.... :thinking:


----------



## ttran97

Illum_the_nation said:


> I have yet to figure out what can scratch pyrex.... :thinking:



Not scratched...but this is what happened to my L6 a few years ago.


----------



## Germ

Illum_the_nation said:


> I have yet to figure out what can scratch pyrex.... :thinking:


 
Your wife might take her wedding ring to it when she finds out how much the light costs 

Nice pics ttran97. Out of curiousity I checked the price and the FM27 beamcover is "only" $47  (less than I expected from SureFire)


----------



## Illum

Germ said:


> Your wife might take her wedding ring to it when she finds out how much the light costs
> 
> Nice pics ttran97. Out of curiousity I checked the price and the FM27 beamcover is "only" $47  (less than I expected from SureFire)



I don't have a girlfriend, much less a wife

EDITED, THINKING ABOUT THR WRONG STUFF

ouch, sorry about your KL6, what did you do to it?


----------



## ttran97

Illum_the_nation said:


> I don't have a girlfriend, much less a wife
> 
> d00d....the beamcover costs as much as a battery carrier?
> I'd take a battery carrier :thanks:
> 
> ouch, sorry about your KL6, what did you do to it?




Huh? The battery carrier is $94 MSRP. MB20

Plus, I'd rather protect the bezel. As they say...an ounce of prevention...

The L6 dropped when it was hanging on a corner of my chair with a lanyard.  It wasn't a big drop...probably 4 feet, but onto hard ceramic tile. I ended up giving the light away. I should have kept it and sent in the head for repair. Oh well. I'll wait until Surefire updates the L6 and then I'll get a new one.


----------



## jayflash

With the M6 sitting, down, on the beam cover, it looks like a short rocket - launching a grenade.


----------



## Lightraven

I put about an 8mm scratch on my M6 window after dropping it from about 2.5 feet onto rocky dirt. The aluminum body has some dings from being dropped also.

In my opinion, the bezel protector is just too expensive.


----------



## Illum




----------



## Robert G.

TTran, that looks like the FM27 Beamcover for the M6. Does it fit both the regular and CB versions of the M6?


----------



## ttran97

Robert G. said:


> TTran, that looks like the FM27 Beamcover for the M6. Does it fit both the regular and CB versions of the M6?



Yes, the FM27 beamcover fits both types of bezels just fine.


----------



## mdhammack

ttran97 said:


> Huh? The battery carrier is $94 MSRP. MB20
> 
> Plus, I'd rather protect the bezel. As they say...an ounce of prevention...
> 
> The L6 dropped when it was hanging on a corner of my chair with a lanyard. It wasn't a big drop...probably 4 feet, but onto hard ceramic tile. I ended up giving the light away. I should have kept it and sent in the head for repair. Oh well. I'll wait until Surefire updates the L6 and then I'll get a new one.


 
I dropped my 9AN about 10 feet onto some concrete, shattered the lens, cracked the reflector and dinged the tailcap pretty good......sent it in, paid for shipping and all was fixed! I have a 9p that's looking pretty rough right now, it may be going in if it ends up breaking a lens....and a 6p with the old plastic lens, man does that thing need to be replaced with a glass one! I have yet to drop my M6, mostly because it stays in the safe away from anyone who might be tempted to try it out and decide they like it more than I need it


----------



## Zenster

Illum_the_nation said:


> to be brutally honest the surefire M6 is
> 
> too heavy for EDC
> too big for us Asian guys to hold with one hand
> ridiculous output beyond what is necessary for practical everyday outdoor life
> with the MN15 installed its ridiculously long running which came as an irony because after using surefires for awhile I tend to think the light will go dead tomorrow
> so far I still haven't justified why I spent so much on that one light, for the price of a McluxIII-PD [which was a steal for an M6 at $270] at least theres a low mode:shrug:
> as a long time 1MCP user it blew my mind something small enough to fit in my pocket [heavy, very heavy] can do the same with something that can't even fit in my backpack and doesn't mind getting wet
> that being said...I <3 my M6


 
You had me at: "ridiculous output beyond what is necessary for practical everyday outdoor life"


----------



## Illum

Zenster said:


> You had me at: "ridiculous output beyond what is necessary for practical everyday outdoor life"



hehe
eventually theres going to be a use for it...it just hasn't come yet
It's like the MCP spotlights, are they fun? yes... are they practical? maybe... got a use for it? um....


----------



## brightnorm

I EDC'd the M6 in a Blackhawk holster for about a week. After a few hours you forget it's there.

Of all the rechargeable M6 solutions I prefer JS's M6-R and soon to be M6-RL (LiON). Among other advantages it is fully regulated, with warning flashes before the end.

My original M6-R is still working perfectly since it first came out, after many recharges.

Brightnorm


----------



## chimneycheck

Well, I just got my M6 and I ordered the Lumens factory bulb (www.lumensfactory.com) and the 6 rechargable 3.7 volt batteries (www.e-lectronics.net and a host of other sites).

Love it. The Lumens Factory bulb seems to have more throw and nice spill.

I am not sure why there does not seem to be much information on a rechargable solution for this light the the one described above is simple and about $75.:twothumbs

Of course if any one has a practical rechargable system the rivals or bests the Lumens Factory bulb I would love to know. Lumens Factory claims similar output and a 35 minute run time. In comparing the original M6 format and the Lumens Factory one it seems to me that the output is similar and the LF bulb may have more throw (not certain of that)

John LeBaron


----------



## Brozneo

Monocrom said:


> I'm going to laugh like Hell when seery posts he bought that M6.


 
Haha! Me too!


----------



## kalkwasser

After a long wait, my Surefire M6 finally arrived today.
I am very new to this hobby I must say. And it does take a lot of courage to order one financially. But, I know it's always good to have a few good ones at the start than having a dozen of average one at the end. And it won't be wrong with so many positive feedback about this incandescent monster in such a small package. 

So here she is...:devil:


----------



## Team Member

Now you need a second one kalkwasser :naughty:

I got my second M6 yesterday and I´m already looking for a third one 

Use it well, it´s made for that...


----------



## kalkwasser

Team Member said:


> Use it well, it´s made for that...



Yes, I think the M6 is a robust little light that is very usable in emergency or where you need a blinding flash of incandescent instantly.

I brought it for a stroll in the night with both the 250/500 lumens bulbs.
And I was going WHOW with the MN21. It's practically like holding a car headlamp on hand that running on High Beam!!:thumbsup:

Very robust, rugged, high quality flashlight. And with the lanyard attached
I can't imagine how does it feel like to get a swing on the head after being blind by it.


----------



## DM51

I have posted a comparison of the M6 and BigLeef lights which may be of interest (in the Review section).


----------



## kalkwasser

DM51 said:


> I have posted a comparison of the M6 and BigLeef lights which may be of interest (in the Review section).


 
Hi DM51,

Yes, a very interesting and very detailed review which is useful for new owner like myself.:thumbsup:. Instead of using the *BigLeef 3C-85* config. I am using Fivemega M6 "C" cells extension is another alternative to rechargeable but with a lower lumens compared to the 3C-85 since it's cheaper and perhaps it's another 200 lumen less?

I'm always impressed by honesty being humble. Just like the SF where they are try to provide conservative info rather than overrating their claims to market their product.

May I know what is the brightest torch lumens output configuaration can a SF M6 achieve using the it's standard host? Maybe 6XRCR123A @13V with a lumenfactory H)-M6R?

I would like to plan for an future upgrade.


----------



## DM51

kalkwasser said:


> I am using Fivemega M6 "C" cells extension is another alternative to rechargeable but with a lower lumens compared to the 3C-85 since it's cheaper and perhaps it's another 200 lumen less?


The Fivemega 2x 'C' Li-Ion extension for the M6 is an excellent solution, because it makes your M6 convertible from the stock set-up to 'C' Li-Ion rechargeables. 

The stock MN20 and MN21 LAs will be even brighter with 2x 'C' Li-Ion cells than with the regular 6x CR123A, but they will be overdriven with the higher voltage and the LAs life may be short (especially the MN21). 

If you put a WA 1111 in there, the result will be beams and run-time exactly the same as the BigLeef 2C-11 in my review.




kalkwasser said:


> May I know what is the brightest torch lumens output configuaration can a SF M6 achieve using the it's standard host? Maybe 6XRCR123A @13V with a lumenfactory H)-M6R?





kalkwasser said:


>


The Lumens Factory HO-M6R is brighter than the MN20 but not as bright as the MN21. I think there are reviews of it elsewhere. It is a good compromise, and of course running rechargeables will be cheaper if you look after your cells properly and make sure they are always properly balanced.


----------



## j3bnl

I just bought my first M6 and it is coming with the fivemega extention and sleeve, 2 AW C cells, 1x MN20, 1x MN21 and 1x LF EO-M3T.
Any thoughts on what is the best bulb for this combination.


----------



## :)>

j3bnl said:


> I just bought my first M6 and it is coming with the fivemega extention and sleeve, 2 AW C cells, 1x MN20, 1x MN21 and 1x LF EO-M3T.
> Any thoughts on what is the best bulb for this combination.


 
You might want to try and install a PR base and install one of the SMJLED's from Lighthound


----------



## j3bnl

:)> said:


> You might want to try and install a PR base and install one of the SMJLED's from Lighthound


 
Goatee your opinion doesn't count mate as you were the recipient of my cash. :nana:

I already know you favour the MN20 and MN21 just wondered what the other M6 owners favoured.


----------



## :)>

I was just havin' a little fun:laughing: I am interested also in what others have to say.


----------



## BSBG

j3bnl said:


> Goatee your opinion doesn't count mate as you were the recipient of my cash. :nana:
> 
> I already know you favour the MN20 and MN21 just wondered what the other M6 owners favoured.



They are all good :devil:.

The MN15 is another option with a nice white output and 2.5 hrs of run time on the 6 primaries. See this thread on Page 2:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/142517


----------



## Size15's

j3bnl said:


> I just bought my first M6 and it is coming with the fivemega extention and sleeve, 2 AW C cells, 1x MN20, 1x MN21 and 1x LF EO-M3T.
> Any thoughts on what is the best bulb for this combination.


I suggest you use your M6 first with the MN21 lamp (on SF123A batteries), and then with the MN20 lamp (on SF123A batteries) - after that you'll have a better appreciation of using the M6 fed as it should be with SF123As.
If you then start to feed it rechargeable batteries you may well better enjoy the 'guilt-free' lumens knowing what it's like to feed the M6 with SF123A batteries.


----------



## SilentK

i think it is a great flashlight if used as a HID and not a general purpose flashlight. only get it if you have the money and if you are prepared to feed it the battery's it needs. if you need something that can reach out several hundred feet, and you will be using it for special purposes. {not for when the power goes out or looking in your closet.} and what ever you do dont shine it in some ones eyes {unless in self defense} unless you want to mess up someones eyes.:tsk:


----------



## ttran97

This will probably irk Big Feet (in true hobbit fashion)...but you can use an M3 head with MN10 on the M6 body! It kinda looks like a light saber or something. I like how floody the beam is. This is supposed to give around 200 lumen for 2.5 hrs.


----------



## Monocrom

ttran97 said:


> This will probably irk Big Feet (in true hobbit fashion)...but you can use an M3 head with MN10 on the M6 body! It kinda looks like a light saber or something. I like how floody the beam is. This is supposed to give around 200 lumen for 2.5 hrs.


 
I think it's beautiful!


----------



## Brozneo

Monocrom said:


> I think it's beautiful!


 
Beautiful as in ugly ducking? Hehe


----------



## Monocrom

Brozneo said:


> Beautiful as in ugly ducking? Hehe


 
You're going to put one together yourself, aren't you? :naughty:


----------



## Team Member

ttran97 said:


> This will probably irk Big Feet (in true hobbit fashion)...but you can use an M3 head with MN10 on the M6 body! It kinda looks like a light saber or something. I like how floody the beam is. This is supposed to give around 200 lumen for 2.5 hrs.



:huh:

Now THAT´S something I *will* try.


----------



## Size15's

ttran97 said:


> This will probably irk Big Feet (in true hobbit fashion)...but you can use an M3 head with MN10 on the M6 body! It kinda looks like a light saber or something. I like how floody the beam is. This is supposed to give around 200 lumen for 2.5 hrs.


As far as I can tell this is just like running the MN15 in the M6 - both are not combinations supported by SureFire and so done at the risk of the user.

But then plenty of CPF members ignore manufacturers' operating instructions - using all kinds of strange rechargeable battery combinations - it's an important activity in the CPF community.
I guess this is the point - experiments are made and the results shared - experience is gained and confidence given to aftermarket combinations and solutions.


----------



## j3bnl

DM51 said:


> The Fivemega 2x 'C' Li-Ion extension for the M6 is an excellent solution, because it makes your M6 convertible from the stock set-up to 'C' Li-Ion rechargeables.
> If you put a WA 1111 in there, the result will be beams and run-time exactly the same as the BigLeef 2C-11 in my review.


 
Would you recommend using the Fivemega "C" extension with the BI-PIN SOCKET FOR MN LAMP?
What bulb would you recommend for this setup, the WA1111?


----------



## DM51

Yes, that is exactly the set-up I was referring to in that post you quote, and the WA 1111 is a good bulb for it. You may have difficulties finding the MN-fitting bi-pin socket, though.


----------



## j3bnl

DM51 said:


> Yes, that is exactly the set-up I was referring to in that post you quote, and the WA 1111 is a good bulb for it. You may have difficulties finding the MN-fitting bi-pin socket, though.


 
Thanks.
I have sent fivemega a pm to see if he will do another run anytime soon but will probably ask in custom B/S/T to see if anyone will sell me one.


----------



## Illum

ttran97 said:


>



ah, thats an "okay" looking combination....the true ugly duckling comes when Al installed a KL6 on an M6
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/810280&postcount=11
pic rehosted




post edited, the wording seemed a bit... :sweat:


----------



## DM51

Eeew Illum, that is _GROSS_. How could you? Lol


----------



## js

While I prefer the stock M6 look, I don't find either the M3 head or KL6 head to be unsightly or ugly when attached to the M6 body. It just takes a bit of getting used to, is all.


----------



## Tempest UK

js said:


> While I prefer the stock M6 look, I don't find either the M3 head or KL6 head to be unsightly or ugly when attached to the M6 body. It just takes a bit of getting used to, is all.



Agreed, I quite like them both  KL6 on an M4...now that would be weird.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## who

Tempest UK said:


> KL6 on an M4...now that would be weird.


I actually have a KL6 on an M4, and it looks OK.
In fact, it is the light on my shelve that most friends want to take a look at first.


----------



## brunt_sp

I'm tempted. Just one question, does a non-CB version now come with a scalloped bezel ?


----------



## MikeLip

brunt_sp said:


> I'm tempted. Just one question, does a non-CB version now come with a scalloped bezel ?



Yes, very lightly scalloped.


----------



## Size15's

My picture hosting site is broken (damaged, the photos are still there but the interface is knackered).
So I've not been able to share my photos in this thread - however, CPF members can be quite resourceful so it appears I'm still able to contribute!


----------



## Illum

DM51....uh, I don't know I didn't see it as ugly...just different:nana:


----------



## Monocrom

KL6 head on an M6 body?

It looks like..... 

It looks like no one would be surprised to discover batteries inside of it, not even a non-flashaholic.


----------



## DM51

Illum_the_nation said:


> DM51....uh, I don't know I didn't see it as ugly...just different:nana:
> 
> yeah um, the word use right? yeah uh...fixed :sweat:


I do hope my last post didn't cause any consternation - it was just a jokey comment to the effect that I personally find the M6 body + KL6 head... well, _*BLECCCHHH*_, lol. Illum, there was nothing wrong with your post at all. It’s just that light - man, it would win a prize at a a grimmie party. 

But who am I to say? Lol, I have been roundly rebuked, by illustrious and distinguished SF experts such as *js* and *Size15s*, both of whom seem to think it is deeply lovely. I grovel in deference to their vastly greater knowledge and experience!

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder. 
​​


----------



## RoyJ

js said:


> While I prefer the stock M6 look, I don't find either the M3 head or KL6 head to be unsightly or ugly when attached to the M6 body. It just takes a bit of getting used to, is all.


 
I agree. Then again, I don't think a stock M6 can win any beauty contests either...


----------



## Tempest UK

RoyJ said:


> I agree. Then again, I don't think a stock M6 can win any beauty contests either...



I think it can  The M6 is one of the best looking lights out there, in my opinion. 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Lightraven

They say Paul Kim was going for the WWII pineapple hand grenade look when designing the M6. In that, he succeeded, I think. Just needs some green paint, spoon and pin. Put in some mixed usage Chinese made off brand CR 123's and throw at enemy.


----------



## JNewell

Lightraven said:


> Put in some mixed usage Chinese made off brand CR 123's and throw at enemy.


 
No need to toss it, it comes with throw right out of the box!


----------



## Illum

JNewell said:


> No need to toss it, it comes with throw right out of the box!



I'm thinking depleted lithium rounds to conserve our uranium stock

the M6 is very twackable...just not as twackable as a Mag 4D would
haven't tried concrete...I hope I never have to use my M6 to twack in lag bolts in or near concrete

:hahaha:  :sweat:


----------



## js

DM51 said:


> I do hope my last post didn't cause any consternation - it was just a jokey comment to the effect that I personally find the M6 body + KL6 head... well, _*BLECCCHHH*_, lol. Illum, there was nothing wrong with your post at all. It’s just that light - man, it would win a prize at a a grimmie party.
> 
> But who am I to say? Lol, I have been roundly rebuked, by illustrious and distinguished SF experts such as *js* and *Size15s*, both of whom seem to think it is deeply lovely. I grovel in deference to their vastly greater knowledge and experience!
> 
> Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.



Groveling is good. Yes. <DEEP VOICE MODE ON> *GROVEL BEFORE US, DM51.* <DEEP VOICE MODE OFF>

Seriously, though, I do agree that the Turbo head looks a LOT better than the KL6. It's just that I don't think the KL6 is "ugly" on the M6 body. That's all.

Flashlight aesthetics are a funny thing, I've found. When I first started into this whole insanity, I thought the M3T was ugly and unsightly. Didn't like it. Same went for the combat lite body of the M2 and C2, with the grip ring and all. Didn't like it. Then, the looks of these lights started to intrigue me just a bit. Then I learned WHY they looked the way that they did. Then I saw them in action and got to hold them.

And then . . . strangely, I started to **like** they way they looked.

Odd. Very odd. But I think this sort of thing is not all that uncommon. Beauty is not only in the eye of the beholder, but the very same eye (or the very same beholder) (or both) changes with time--significantly.


----------



## DM51

js said:


> Groveling is good. Yes. <DEEP VOICE MODE ON> *GROVEL BEFORE US, DM51.* <DEEP VOICE MODE OFF>


ROFL Jim, I've been pressing my unworthy forehead into the unyielding concrete floor in deferential obeisance and abject subservience for nearly 2 days now - can I get up yet, Sir?


----------



## paulr

I always liked the M6's looks but never liked the M4's.


----------



## :)>

DM51 said:


> ROFL Jim, I've been pressing my unworthy forehead into the unyielding concrete floor in deferential obeisance and abject subservience for nearly 2 days now - can I get up yet, Sir?


 
Well said. 



Did that come naturally or did it take some work? If those kind of words just flow effortlessly from you, then...

:bow:


----------



## DM51

It's not very easy if your forehead is pressed tightly on to a concrete floor, I can tell you.


----------



## LED61

DM51 said:


> It's not very easy if your forehead is pressed tightly on to a concrete floor, I can tell you.


 
DM, pardon my interference, but I don't think anyone is pressing your head against the concrete


----------



## js

DM51 said:


> It's not very easy if your forehead is pressed tightly on to a concrete floor, I can tell you.



Your obeisance has been sufficient. You may lift your forehead from the concrete floor. ARISE! SEE THE WORLD WITH NEW, MORE M6 WITH M3 HEAD ATTACHED APPROVING EYES!! BE REBORN!

And send me a tithe.  Thanks.

-God's mouthpiece in this world.


----------



## Monocrom

Anyone have any long-term experience using a KL6 head on an M6?


----------



## ttran97

Monocrom said:


> Anyone have any long-term experience using a KL6 head on an M6?



I only used the KL6 for a little bit on the M6. Nowadays, a better LED option for the M6 would be the Tower Module made by milkyspit. ~220 lumen for 5.5 hrs in the original turbohead. Now that's awesome!


----------



## Illum

So My M6 rolled off the table the other day
it landed on laminate flooring 3 feet below with a solid CLUNK:shakehead
nothings broken and no dings but I was concerned.
just how effective is the advertised "shock dampening" spring anyway. Anyone here got a frontal impact test assembly? [the ones windows manufacturers to test hurricane projectile/winds:devil:]


----------



## ttran97

Illum_the_nation said:


> So My M6 rolled off the table the other day
> it landed on laminate flooring 3 feet below with a solid CLUNK:shakehead
> nothings broken and no dings but I was concerned.
> just how effective is the advertised "shock dampening" spring anyway. Anyone here got a frontal impact test assembly? [the ones windows manufacturers to test hurricane projectile/winds:devil:]



NOW do you see the value of the beam cover on the M6??? Not only does it protect the lens, it's good for anti-roll as well.


----------



## Illum

who said:


> I actually have a KL6 on an M4, and it looks OK.
> In fact, it is the light on my shelve that most friends want to take a look at first.



the KL6 can handle 12V? :thinking:



ttran97 said:


> NOW do you see the value of the beam cover on the M6??? Not only does it protect the lens, it's good for anti-roll as well.



yes


----------



## jayflash

FYI, my M6/MN21 is brighter with a more useful beam than the low beam headlight in my '95 Escort. I'd imagine the old plastic lens is preventing the more powerful car lamp from utilizing all its lumens.


----------



## Illum

jayflash said:


> FYI, my M6/MN21 is brighter with a more useful beam than the low beam headlight in my '95 Escort. I'd imagine the old plastic lens is preventing the more powerful car lamp from utilizing all its lumens.



For some reason older cars have lights that does that...not only brittle but becoming opaque

9V, 5 AMPS...._a 45W flashlight_:naughty:
the M6 + MN21 not all that different from a mag hotwire :nana:


----------



## ttran97

Illum_the_nation said:


> For some reason older cars have lights that does that...not only brittle but becoming opaque
> 
> 9V, 5 AMPS...._a 45W flashlight_:naughty:
> the M6 + MN21 not all that different from a mag hotwire :nana:



I've got HID's in my car, so my M6 doesn't even come close...not even the MN21 HOLA. :naughty:


----------



## MikeSalt

I don't own one, so immediately discount my opinion if it causes offence. As it stands, the M6 is too thirsty to be fuelled on primaries. Its usefulness would be drastically increased with a rechargable option. Yes, I know there is the Dominator 10X, but due to its odd shape, it is hardly a pocket-light.

In fact, it would be great to have a rechargable M6 with the convenience of the 10X. If they were to make a dual-filament bulb, as found in car headlights, you could have both levels of brightness. As an extra bonus, with one filament above the other, the focal point will be different between the two filaments. This could be tweaked so that the low-output filament is slightly off-focus, giving a floody beam, whereas the high-output is perfectly focussed, making an uber-thrower.

I suppose this is why the Mag 2C ROP with AW's C-cells is proving very popular. Not much bigger than the M6, yet with more power and rechargable.


----------



## ttran97

MikeSalt said:


> I don't own one, so immediately discount my opinion if it causes offence. As it stands, the M6 is too thirsty to be fuelled on primaries. Its usefulness would be drastically increased with a rechargable option. Yes, I know there is the Dominator 10X, but due to its odd shape, it is hardly a pocket-light.
> 
> In fact, it would be great to have a rechargable M6 with the convenience of the 10X. If they were to make a dual-filament bulb, as found in car headlights, you could have both levels of brightness. As an extra bonus, with one filament above the other, the focal point will be different between the two filaments. This could be tweaked so that the low-output filament is slightly off-focus, giving a floody beam, whereas the high-output is perfectly focussed, making an uber-thrower.
> 
> I suppose this is why the Mag 2C ROP with AW's C-cells is proving very popular. Not much bigger than the M6, yet with more power and rechargable.



I know that the cost of feeding this beast is of concern to many people, including myself. However, several options have arisen over the years that make it a lot more economical to run, including simply using an MN15 bulb all the way up to buying an LED tower module. 

I think that most M6 owners would agree that the value of this light is much more than simply lumen output. It's a fine piece of hardware that some will dream about, while others will say "What's the point?". Ever have a friend look at a girl and his jaw drops...while you think to yourself, "Huh? Really?" Same thing.


----------



## Illum

ttran97 said:


> I've got HID's in my car, so my M6 doesn't even come close...not even the MN21 HOLA. :naughty:



cheater:laughing:
yeah HID will beat the pants off the M6 even with MN21...I don't own any HIDs but from multiple beamshots I'm convinced this is the case



MikeSalt said:


> In fact, it would be great to have a rechargable M6 with the convenience of the 10X.



I'm really hoping fivemega does another run of 3x17670 holders
these guys work well with the LF HO-M6R lamp
pics of holder and runtime can be seen here
BST thread, now sold: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=175097


----------



## kelmo

I just took the plunge and bought the one ADDICTED2LITE is selling on BST! It comes with a MN21 LA only. It's a good thing I got a couple of MN15s.


----------



## Patriot

The M6 used to account for about 20-30 batteries a year. I don't think that 2008 will be the same case because I found a combination that I prefer a little more. I'm now using AW RCR123s in conjunction with the Lumens Factory HO-M6R. It's only slightly brighter than the MN21 but noticeably more whiter. Now when I reach for the M6 I grab that one. It's really nice to have "fresh" or fully charged batteries in the M6 instead of having to carry a light with 35% depleted primaries in it that I'm just trying to use up. It was getting to a point where I wasn't using my partially depleted primaries in single cell lights nearly as fast as I was partially depleting them. The stock pile was becoming ridiculous. Now I'm using primaries at a much slower rate mostly due to changes with the M6s.

I still use another M6 with primaries but with a variation. I'm using an M3 head on that M6 body with a Lumens Factory EO-M3 380 lamp. This makes for a very white beam and provides excellent runtime on 6 primaries...longer than the MN20 anyhow. I often carry that light for late night grocery store runs because it actually fits in my back pocket, once out of the vehicle. 

Many here are purists and don't like unconventional battery or lamp combinations. For me these extra combinations have made the M6 more user friendly for my purposes. I think that having these neat options increases the usability and interest for an otherwise aging incan. I'm guessing that SF probably feels the same way since there is no longer any development on new incan lights.


----------



## JNewell

> It's only slightly brighter than the MN21


 
I'm using the LF LA also, but I'm not sure it's brighter than the MN21. If you look at the spec, LF specs 700 lumens at the lamp, whereas I think SF's spec is actual lumens out the front. I might be wrong...but in any case I don't think my HO M6R on 123Rs is any brighter than my MN20 on primaries.


----------



## Team Member

I think that the M6 is one of the most versatile lights out there. 
This week I got me a Milky modded KL6. Now I have almost all that I need to match my M6 for the mission.

And when SF will start selling there KL9 I will be all over it.

The M6 is such a beauty/beast that I have my third one in the mail..


I have been testing a MN60 in a M3T with 3 AW rcr123. That worked fine but what do you guy´s think of a MN60 in the M6 with 6 AW rcr123?


----------



## JNewell

Team Member said:


> I think that the M6 is one of the most versatile lights out there.


 
I agree - check this thread out.


----------



## ttran97

JNewell said:


> I agree - check this thread out.



That's JNewell's favorite thread. hehe.  :wave::thumbsup:


----------



## JNewell

ttran97 said:


> That's JNewell's favorite thread. hehe.  :wave::thumbsup:


 
Not sure about that, but it's one of my favorite lights!


----------



## adamlau

I like the M6, but it really requires 3x17670 + MN61/WA1185, or 2xC + 5761 to shine. The MN21 off primaries is no fun at all.


----------



## Jvalera

Not my cup of tea. Hard to mount on a weapon if I had to, change batteries in the dark, bulky in my hands, incandesent might be obsolete soon, bulbs dont last,low runtime, for the money id get compact HID's.


----------



## Illum

Jvalera said:


> hard to mount on a weapon if I had to


theres a M6 equivalent weapon light available if thats what your intention for buying an M6 is. 



Jvalera said:


> incandescent might be obsolete soon


uh.... :thinking:
I'd give it another five years until they can make an multi-wavelength LED that has the same color rendition as a 3300K incan.



Jvalera said:


> bulbs don't last


by what surefire drives them, I'd say 30-40 hours is nothing short of a miracle 



Jvalera said:


> low runtime


its a surefire, of course it has low runtime. If its got a long runtime and its incan...its probably not a surefire



Jvalera said:


> for the money id get compact HID's.


wait for a bit and hopefully surefire will come out with their new "short arc" lights. Since 2003 surefire has teased us with its 'short arc' prototype pics in its catalogs. its been 5 years in the making...I'm really hoping this beats the pants off the HID:twothumbs:naughty:


----------



## Team Member

This is truly a nice light :twothumbs

Another one came today...


----------



## [email protected]

Nice!


----------



## ttran97

Team Member...where's the flat bezel on your M6? 

But very nice collection, indeed! I've got M6-envy....  

The M6 is truly amazing and some people just never realize how great these are until they hold one in their hands. As someone once told me..."A light is more than just lumen output".


----------



## DM51

3 of anything is nice!


----------



## ttran97

DM51 said:


> 3 of anything is nice!



3 M6's, 3 black A2's...yes, nice.

3 strikes in CA...not so nice.


----------



## Taboot

I just got my M6 CB 20 minutes ago! I love it. I can't believe I've gone this long in my life without one. Now to buy a ton of CR123's so I don't mind running it.

Feels great in the hand. Beam is awesome. Look is really cool. Build quality is Surefire. To me, it's the 12 gauge of SF lights!!

With that, I'm done buying lights..... Except the UA2 and maybe a Titan, and HID and and ...... Dang.

Regards,

Taboot


----------



## DM51

ttran97 said:


> 3 strikes in CA...not so nice.


Good point!


----------



## Team Member

ttran97 said:


> Team Member...where's the flat bezel on your M6?




I know, I feel ashame.. And even worse, it´s 3 Guardian. Not a single Magnumlight...:shakehead


----------



## cqbdude

You guys are bad influences....:nana:


----------



## Illum

just when I feel foretunate enough to join the M6 club DM51 starts a three-banger one to succeed it...
bad influence indeed :nana:


----------



## Monocrom

The problem with having three M6s.... You only have two hands.


----------



## BSBG

Monocrom said:


> The problem with having three M6s.... You only have two hands.



One's for backup in the back pocket .


----------



## 270winchester

BSBG said:


> One's for backup in the back pocket .



go dog walking with three M6s: 1000 dollars

medical costs for burnt hands from operating two M6s at once: 600 dollars

having an M6 as a back up light? Priceless


----------



## Shreknow91

im sorry, i just have to do this........


Is that a Surefire M6 in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

:naughty::hahaha::lolsign:


----------



## Shreknow91

270winchester said:


> go dog walking with three M6s: 1000 dollars
> 
> medical costs for burnt hands from operating two M6s at once: 600 dollars
> 
> having an M6 as a back up light? Priceless




umm sorry but last time i checked $400 times 3 was $1200


----------



## wquiles

Honest opinion: I have been in the forum now for a couple of years, and I have owned and tried many, many lights, some at meets, some as part of passarounds. Of everything I have tried, I "still" think that my regulated M6's with the HDM6 LiIon packs (I have TWO of them) are the greatest lights ever in terms of achieving a nearly perfect compromise of ilumination, size, strength, and beam quality outdoors. I keep one with an MN20 (standard bezel) and one with the MN21 (crenalated bezel with small teeth). With these, my outdoor needs are covered, plus if I had to use it as a tactical light, I am more than covered :naughty:

Will


----------



## Taboot

Check Ebay, you can get an M6 new for around $333.33



Shreknow91 said:


> umm sorry but last time i checked $400 times 3 was $1200


----------



## Illum

Monocrom said:


> The problem with having three M6s.... You only have two hands.



theres vests made for dogs, I think a little modding goes a long way



Taboot said:


> Check Ebay, you can get an M6 new for around $333.33



or $280 [mine] in the BST if your lucky:huh:

better yet, read this thread in auction notices
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=176072
$225 for an M6 on ebay today


----------



## Taboot

I've been using mine (lightly) with MN21 lamp for a couple days and the batteries are still going strong. I haven't timed it, but it seems like well over 20 minutes. Perhaps 25 or 30. What kind of run times are you all seeing? It also seems brighter than what I expected from the advertised 500 lumens. Does Surefire under rate the runtimes like they do the output?


----------



## ttran97

Taboot said:


> I've been using mine (lightly) with MN21 lamp for a couple days and the batteries are still going strong. I haven't timed it, but it seems like well over 20 minutes. Perhaps 25 or 30. What kind of run times are you all seeing? It also seems brighter than what I expected from the advertised 500 lumens. Does Surefire under rate the runtimes like they do the output?



There are members here who say that the 500 lumen from the MN21 is actually more like 700 lumen! Wow!!!  I always thought Surefire was pretty accurate when it comes to runtime, though...so who knows...maybe you got a special M6! :shrug:


----------



## Taboot

ttran97 said:


> There are members here who say that the 500 lumen from the MN21 is actually more like 700 lumen! Wow!!!  I always thought Surefire was pretty accurate when it comes to runtime, though...so who knows...maybe you got a special M6! :shrug:


 
It definitely seems quite a bit brighter than my EO-13 LA (700 bulb lumens claimed). As far as runtime, my internal clock could just be optimistic...


----------



## Illum

Taboot said:


> I've been using mine (lightly) with MN21 lamp for a couple days and the batteries are still going strong. I haven't timed it, but it seems like well over 20 minutes. Perhaps 25 or 30. What kind of run times are you all seeing?







I don't know...I haven't used my MN21 longer than 30 sec bursts



ttran97 said:


> There are members here who say that the 500 lumen from the MN21 is actually more like 700 lumen! Wow!!!  I always thought Surefire was pretty accurate when it comes to runtime, though...so who knows...maybe you got a special M6! :shrug:



some say 500 lumens is the "base value" of a MN20 on fresh batteries and the "peak value" of an MN21 running on used batteries

Personally, I don't care if its 500 or 700 lumens...I love it just the same:thumbsup:


----------



## BSBG

Here is a link to a run time graph:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169411&highlight=m6+runtime+graph

I find that used intermittently, the MN21 slowly drops in output. While it seems pretty bright after 15-20 total minutes, swapping to fresh batteries shows you the light, so to speak :huh:


----------



## kelmo

The discharge curve for the MN20 lamp is truely amazing. Look how flat it is for the 1st 40 min!

And the MN15 LA is nice and flat for 2+ hours. I am one happy camper with just "one. "

If you can afford to feed one, get one.


----------



## adamlau

I don't know...The MN21 just seems boring against the WA1185 :ironic:


----------



## JNewell

True. It's almost as if it were regulated. In reality, it probably just means that the battery pack is loafing for a long time with the MN20 up front.



kelmo said:


> The discharge curve for the MN20 lamp is truely amazing. Look how flat it is for the 1st 40 min!
> 
> And the MN15 LA is nice and flat for 2+ hours. I am one happy camper with just "one. "
> 
> If you can afford to feed one, get one.


----------



## Grox

adamlau said:


> I don't know...The MN21 just seems boring against the WA1185 :ironic:



Someday I hope to get a FM module too so that I can use the 1185 and so on! Money's very tight at the moment though.


----------



## chimneycheck

MSaxatilus said:


> SOLUTION #1:
> I have been using a stack of six protected AW 17500 LiONs cells (2s3p) with a modified tailcup (similar to AWR's concept). Its a great mod as, it is completely reversable and doesn't require any modifications to the outside of the M6, and even better... no silly extensions. The entire bundle is held securely together with some very thing yet strong shrink wrap. I'm using the positive and negative end plates from a heavy duty Rayovac battery as endcaps for my battery pack. This provides approximately 35-40 minutes of runtime with a MN21, double that with an MN20, before the circut protection kicks in.
> 
> SOLUTION #2:
> You could also utilize 2xAW "C" LiON Cells with the same modified tailcup arrangement. I haven't tried this yet but the lenght of two C cells is about the same as 2 17500s. Also, 1 AW cell has the same capacity as three 17500s in parallel. So I would suspect that the C cells would provide similar performance as long as they can handle the current draw. I just have to build a spacer to hold the C cells securely within the M6.
> 
> MSax


 
You mentioned 2 lion "C" cells for the MN21 bulb. The bulb is designed for 6.8 volts but the voltage from the 2 cells is going to approximate 8 volts. I would worry about instaflashing. If this does not burn out the bulb then one could also try the Leef system for those two batteries, it is actually quite nice and makes for a light that is easier to hold as well.

By the way, the M6 has got to be the best. I own a 4000 lumens (supposedly) Wicked Lasers light and it is the only light that I have in my arsenal that beats the M6.

Granted the WE Storm is pretty bright, the Boxer 24 watt as well and the Borealis and yadayadayada but the M6 is an incredible light.


----------



## Patriot

chimneycheck said:


> You mentioned 2 lion "C" cells for the MN21 bulb. The bulb is designed for 6.8 volts but the voltage from the 2 cells is going to approximate 8 volts. I would worry about instaflashing. If this does not burn out the bulb then one could also try the Leef system for those two batteries, it is actually quite nice and makes for a light that is easier to hold as well.




There's a good chance I'm wrong but wasn't the MN21 designed for 9V?


----------



## wquiles

Patriot36 said:


> There's a good chance I'm wrong but wasn't the MN21 designed for 9V?



Most certaintly "not" designed to run at 9V. The MN21 is designed to run at 6.8V DC. This old post of mine has additional information on the MN20, MN21, and ways to offer regulation to them:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=125451

Will


----------



## BSBG

Patriot36 said:


> There's a good chance I'm wrong but wasn't the MN21 designed for 9V?


 

Just piling on here - the CR123 cell, while nominally 3 volts, cannot deliver that under load, especially at the almost 5 amps an MN21 requires. They will sag to 2.5 volts or less under load.

I have run an MN21 on 2 AW C cells with Fivemega's extension. It is impressive, at least 30 minutes of run time and it may be slightly brighter than on the 6x123 pack. No instaflaxh, but I'd bet bulb life will be shortened.


----------



## Patriot

Thanks BSBG and wquiles. I'm going to go look at the link you provided right now.


----------



## BSBG

Just a couple of pics to show the versatility of the M6 

My 3:







Various power options: MN15 w/ 6x123, MN21 w/ 2xAW C Cell w/ Fivemega extension, and MN60 w/ 3x17670 in Fivemega holder:


----------



## wquiles

BSBG said:


> Just a couple of pics to show the versatility of the M6
> 
> My 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Various power options: MN15 w/ 6x123, MN21 w/ 2xAW C Cell w/ Fivemega extension, and MN60 w/ 3x17670 in Fivemega holder:



Nice collection you have there :naughty:

Will


----------



## Illum

not to bump the thread off topic, but according to this pic
posted: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2147701#post2147701
by user: Dr.K




since when did M6 start using 18V battery holders?


----------



## wquiles

Illum_the_nation said:


> not to bump the thread off topic, but according to this pic
> posted: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2147701#post2147701
> by user: Dr.K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> since when did M6 start using 18V battery holders?



6 x 3V batteries = 18V 

My guess is what somebody in marketing just got too excited and forgot "reality" 

Will


----------



## Size15's

wquiles said:


> 6 x 3V batteries = 18V
> 
> My guess is what somebody in marketing just got too excited and forgot "reality"
> 
> Will


It's so there is an obvious difference between the MN15/MN16 (three x 3V = 9V), MN60/MN61 (four x 3V = 12V) and MN20/MN21 (six x 3V = 18V)
So that the lamps aren't mixed up between models.

We recognise the details because we're flashaholics but normal people don't have time to care and just want the product to make it easier for them no to mess up.


----------



## jayflash

It's been 3 - 4 months since I last thanked Starflash for his Christmas gift of a Millennium M6. Out of all of my nice and some cutting edge lights, the M6 is my favorite.

The high tech LEDs I have are nice and practical and I usually favor small lights, but the M6 is the epitome of a classic flashlight.


----------



## The Porcupine

Just got an M6 and I can only say that now I understand what all the fuzz is about!:twothumbs
I also realize that I'll have to buy more batteries!


----------



## wquiles

Size15's said:


> It's so there is an obvious difference between the MN15/MN16 (three x 3V = 9V), MN60/MN61 (four x 3V = 12V) and MN20/MN21 (six x 3V = 18V)
> So that the lamps aren't mixed up between models.
> 
> We recognise the details because we're flashaholics but normal people don't have time to care and just want the product to make it easier for them no to mess up.



Well put - I did not think about it from that point of view 

Will


----------



## jayflash

IIRC, the MN 20 & 21 are also nine volts. I believe the six cells in an M6 are wired in parallel groups of 2 x three cells.


----------



## Illum

indeed, its only a matter of time before someone in PK's house does something about it.
as Size15s says, only us flashaholics would be picky over that little detail


----------



## wquiles

jayflash said:


> IIRC, the MN 20 & 21 are also nine volts. I believe the six cells in an M6 are wired in parallel groups of 2 x three cells.



Yes, the cells are in parallel, but even then the cells still sag in voltage quite a lot under load. The operating voltage for the MN21 is 6.8V and for the MN20 is about 7.3-4V due to the relatively large current drawn from the cells.

I hesitate to call these 9V bulbs: If you put them in another SF light with just 9V (3x cells), you would not have enough voltage to run them. So calling them 9V bulbs is not really "accurate" :naughty:

Will


----------



## jayflash

Yes, of course, you are right. I meant to differentiate them from actual ~18 volt lamps.


----------



## wquiles

jayflash said:


> Yes, of course, you are right. I meant to differentiate them from actual ~18 volt lamps.



Gotcha - I understand what you meant now :twothumbs


----------



## JetskiMark

I had long admired the look of the M6. The first time I held one I liked the way it felt in my hand. And the output was decent for a stock light (MN21). But I was waiting on a rechargeable solution. And waiting....

Then I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a couple of FM's 3x17670 holders. So I figured that I should probably get an M6 now to protect my new holders. I got a new M6-CB from an eBay Power Seller for $304.95 shipped. I already had an MN61 from my M4.

I am pleased with the results and the guilt free lumens. So much so that I bought two more of FM's holders. Now I just need to get several of his bi-pin adapters, when they become available again, so I can run an 1185 in mine. When I get the adapters, I will buy a second M6. It is that good.

Well, that is my story and I'm sticking to it.

Regards,
Mark


----------



## ConfederateScott

My M6 is no longer an incan. I bought an LED tower module from a fellow CPF member and it is awesome. I feel more comfortable not worrying about a lamp failure at the worst possible time. The battery life is double or triple what it was with the HOLA. I love it. It was a tad expensive though.


----------



## Illum

ConstableScott said:


> My M6 is no longer an incan. I bought an LED tower module from a fellow CPF member and it is awesome. I feel more comfortable not worrying about a lamp failure at the worst possible time. The battery life is double or triple what it was with the HOLA. I love it. It was a tad expensive though.



does the infrared filter still werk?:nana:
glad to hear you've acquired one....those are rare:thumbsup:


----------



## adamlau

True story: This morning at 2:00 AM I was making my rounds w/ a 6PD through our housing development when I noticed that theives had stolen the core from an AC compressor. The click-on tailcap failed on constant, had to run back to grab another light in the event the culprits were still actively on the grounds. My first instinct was to grab a M6-CB.


----------



## Taboot

adamlau said:


> True story: This morning at 2:00 AM I was making my rounds w/ a 6PD through our housing development when I noticed that theives had stolen the core from an AC compressor. The click-on tailcap failed on constant, had to run back to grab another light in the event the culprits were still actively on the grounds. My first instinct was to grab a M6-CB.


 
+1 My M6 is my first (light) choice when things go bump in the night. Stupid clickies :thumbsdow


----------



## js

Nice to see this thread again. I honestly can't remember too much about it and what I posted previously, but, quickly, just wanted to say that my M6 is one of my all time favorite lights! It is true that the incan lamp isn't quite as reliable as an LED light source, *but*, the M6 bezel is shock isolated--and very well shock isolated at that--so that it's very, very reliable for an incan. And, it's also dead simple compared to a PWM or regulated LED light. No electronics to fail. And the LOTC is very rugged. I know this from direct experience! So that's an upside on the reliability front. Still, incan lamps do fail. No doubt.

I run the MN15 in my M6 all the time now. It's pretty amazing to get 2.5 hours and 200 lumens from an incan light the size of the M6. (For more info click on the link in my sigline) It's a classic light. It feels good in the hand and is a good design. It's got nice proportions, and is made to the highest quality standards. For me, it was worth every penny. It's the light I take with me when out walking, and it's the light sitting on my nightstand, along with an L2.


----------



## JNewell

What kind of bulb life are you seeing with this configuration?


----------



## IcantC

After I used the M6, any other light I use seems very dim .


----------



## js

JNewell said:


> What kind of bulb life are you seeing with this configuration?



15 to 20 hours. Not great life, but it sure is nice and white! And the discharge curve of 123's over 2.5 hours is much flatter than over 1 hour. So the first hour of runtime shows no visible dimming that I can see. Again, see link for details. Maybe I'll knock that thread to the top, anyway. :thinking:


----------



## JNewell

Thanks!


----------



## mazingerz9

Hey JS,

What kind of batteries are you using with the MN15?

I just ordered a M6 + MN61 + HO-M6R + AW 17670P + FM 3x17670 Holder

It would be nice to run a X-LOLA for about 2hrs. Just need to know what batteries you are using (hopefully, they're rechargeable).

Thanks.
Steven




js said:


> Nice to see this thread again. I honestly can't remember too much about it and what I posted previously, but, quickly, just wanted to say that my M6 is one of my all time favorite lights! It is true that the incan lamp isn't quite as reliable as an LED light source, *but*, the M6 bezel is shock isolated--and very well shock isolated at that--so that it's very, very reliable for an incan. And, it's also dead simple compared to a PWM or regulated LED light. No electronics to fail. And the LOTC is very rugged. I know this from direct experience! So that's an upside on the reliability front. Still, incan lamps do fail. No doubt.
> 
> I run the MN15 in my M6 all the time now. It's pretty amazing to get 2.5 hours and 200 lumens from an incan light the size of the M6. (For more info click on the link in my sigline) It's a classic light. It feels good in the hand and is a good design. It's got nice proportions, and is made to the highest quality standards. For me, it was worth every penny. It's the light I take with me when out walking, and it's the light sitting on my nightstand, along with an L2.


----------



## ttran97

mazingerz9 said:


> Hey JS,
> 
> What kind of batteries are you using with the MN15?
> 
> I just ordered a M6 + MN61 + HO-M6R + AW 17670P + FM 3x17670 Holder
> 
> It would be nice to run a X-LOLA for about 2hrs. Just need to know what batteries you are using (hopefully, they're rechargeable).
> 
> Thanks.
> Steven



I have the same setup as JS with the MN15 in one of my M6's. I just use regular Surefire batteries with them. You won't be able to use rechargeables with the MN15 bulb.

I recently got the 3x17670 holder too...so I look forward to using that setup in one of the others. That should hold me over for a while before I have to send mine into Milky Labs for an LED upgrade!


----------



## leon2245

ttran97 said:


> I have the same setup as JS with the MN15 in one of my M6's. I just use regular Surefire batteries with them. You won't be able to use rechargeables with the MN15 bulb.
> 
> I recently got the 3x17670 holder too...so I look forward to using that setup in one of the others. That should hold me over for a while before I have to send mine into Milky Labs for an LED upgrade!


 
What's the LED upgrade, and why do you have to send it in? It's not just a head to screw on?


----------



## BSBG

leon2245 said:


> What's the LED upgrade, and why do you have to send it in? It's not just a head to screw on?



Well, it is "just a head you screw on", but some people modify the one the have rather than spend the $$ on a new head.

Me, I'd get a second head to keep the incan option available, or another M6, or....


----------



## ttran97

This is what I was referring to...

milkyspit puts 6 or 7 LEDs into the turbohead and you get over a thousand lumen! Wow!  More info here.







And yes, you should get more M6's...you know, just in case. :thumbsup:
Here are mine:


----------



## Tempest UK

I always love seeing your "Millennium Series M6", ttran 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## cyberpunk

So - I'm new to the forum (this is my first post), but thought I'd chime in on this thread on opinions of the SF M6:

I've got a few SureFires. I have the E2D, two 6PL's (one original that I put the P60L upgrade into, and one purchased as a LED), a 6PD with the P60L upgrade in it, and an X200B. The E2D was my first SureFire and when I purchased it (about a year ago), I knew immediately that A) Flashlights had come a long way since I last purchased one, which had been about 10 years earlier, and B) I had stumbled onto a new hobby!

I picked up the M6 a week or so ago and quickly put the MN21 into it and went into the backyard for some fun. The minute I turned it on, I had to stop myself from giggling! This flashlight simply made my giddy...no other way to put it.

My wife is typically not into these things, but when I said, "Check this out...I'm going to light up that house down the street", she almost doubled-over in laughter at how powerful this light was! She immediately got a mischevious look on her face and said, "Let me see that thing!" She then proceeded to have a ball lighting up various houses in our neighborhood. It was all I could do to get it back from her. And she is SO not into this sort of thing! Such is the power of the M6.

I travel quite a bit for business, and my wife has a hard time when I'm gone. She gets a bit nervous at night, and scares easily. This light is 500 Lumens of comfort for her! She absolutely takes comfort in having it by the nightstand. The other day, as we were about to go to sleep, she said, "Let me see that light again", and she proceeded to light up the house in awe at how powerful this thing is.

My opinion of the M6? Simply amazing. Yeah - I know, there are brighter mods or custom lights available, and perhaps someday I'll be into some of them. But from the minute I got my first M6 home and I turned it on, the words "I'm getting another one of these things!!" have been playing non-stop in my head.

I have no doubt that my small collection of SureFires will expand soon...and a second M6 is the next light I'll be getting!


----------



## Patriot

cyberpunk said:


> My wife is typically not into these things, but when I said, "Check this out...I'm going to light up that house down the street", she almost doubled-over in laughter at how powerful this light was! She immediately got a mischevious look on her face and said, "Let me see that thing!" She then proceeded to have a ball lighting up various houses in our neighborhood. It was all I could do to get it back from her. And she is SO not into this sort of thing! Such is the power of the M6.
> 
> I travel quite a bit for business, and my wife has a hard time when I'm gone. She gets a bit nervous at night, and scares easily. This light is 500 Lumens of comfort for her! She absolutely takes comfort in having it by the nightstand. The other day, as we were about to go to sleep, she said, "Let me see that light again", and she proceeded to light up the house in awe at how powerful this thing is.




Great story! I love to hear about women who get enthusiastic about flashlights. When my girlfriend first opened up a pistol case full of surefires she was the same way. She had never she such lumens come out of something so small and I think it made her feel powerful...lol Now she's got a handful of great lights including 6P with P61, a P1D CE, a photon, and some Target lights.


----------



## ttran97

Tempest UK said:


> I always love seeing your "Millennium Series M6", ttran
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest



You mean this light? :twothumbs 

She's quite a rarity, isn't she? I bet Al has a ton of these, though. :laughing:


----------



## DM51

Welcome to CPF, cyberpunk! Sounds like Mrs cyberpunk ought to be signing on too...


----------



## cyberpunk

DM51 said:


> Welcome to CPF, cyberpunk! Sounds like Mrs cyberpunk ought to be signing on too...


 
Thanks, DM51. Oh - I suspect me hanging around this place will end up costing me plenty of money, without her diving in head-first into this subculture, as well!


----------



## js

masingerz9,

Click on the X-LOLA link for more info, but no, not rechargeable! I use primary Duracell 123A's. I get mine from www.cheapbatteries.com.

However, if you want to go rechargeable, you can use the Lumens Factory lamp specifically meant for the M6 with R123's in the battery holder. Or, you can also run the MN61 or MN60 lamps with R123's. There's a thread on this:

 another M6-R with MN61

It's quite old so you have to get to the point where I bumped it to the top again after a couple years of inactivity, but there's some good info and discussions and graphs and beam shots in there. Heed the warnings about unprotected Li-ion cells, though! Know what you are doing or things could go very wrong.


----------



## cyberpunk

Patriot36 said:


> ...Now she's got a handful of great lights including 6P with P61, a P1D CE, a photon, and some Target lights.


 
Excellent!


----------



## Size15's

ttran97 said:


> You mean this light? :twothumbs
> She's quite a rarity, isn't she? I bet Al has a ton of these, though. :laughing:


I only have three M6's. I'll have to check what the etching is for each one.


----------



## Tempest UK

ttran97 said:


> You mean this light? :twothumbs




Yup, that's the one  Makes my 2 Guardians look very dull.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## xcel730

Just caught this on a rerun of 24 Season 4. Looks like one of the CTU agents has an M6 mounted on his rifle


----------



## Monocrom

Not likely an actual M6. More like Surefire's weapon-light version of the M6. Can't recall its designation off the top of my head.


----------



## adamlau

Either an AB, or B series Millennium Forend.


----------



## BSBG

Also known as the M500.


----------



## Size15's

It's the M500*AB* (akin to the M3T)
M500A / M900A = M3
M500AB / M900AB = M3T
M500B = M6


----------



## ampdude

Taboot said:


> I've been using mine (lightly) with MN21 lamp for a couple days and the batteries are still going strong. I haven't timed it, but it seems like well over 20 minutes. Perhaps 25 or 30. What kind of run times are you all seeing? It also seems brighter than what I expected from the advertised 500 lumens. Does Surefire under rate the runtimes like they do the output?



When used in bursts, with time for the batteries to recover, my experience has always been runtimes will be longer than quoted.


----------



## Grox

ampdude said:


> When used in bursts, with time for the batteries to recover, my experience has always been runtimes will be longer than quoted.



Yeah, that's what I've found too.

Also, with fivemega's 3x17670 holder there are multiple options for wonderful guilt-free lumens.


----------



## MikeSalt

I have posted before, but here is my current opinion...

Infinite supply of free batteries - one of the best incandescent lights around.

Having to pay UK prices for batteries - one the most useless lights. Will never see much use due to running costs.

I did consider this once upon a time, but a Mag 2D ROP turned out to be the better option for my particular needs.


----------



## Tempest UK

MikeSalt said:


> I have posted before, but here is my current opinion...
> 
> Infinite supply of free batteries - one of the best incandescent lights around.
> 
> Having to pay UK prices for batteries - one the most useless lights. Will never see much use due to running costs.



I think paying UK prices for CR123a makes any light using them pretty useless. Solution: don't pay UK prices for them 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## gallagho

UK highstreet prices are crazy...

6 123A in the shops £30 :sick2:
6 123A on FleaBay £3

Owen


----------



## IcantC

MikeSalt said:


> I have posted before, but here is my current opinion...
> 
> Infinite supply of free batteries - one of the best incandescent lights around.
> 
> Having to pay UK prices for batteries - one the most useless lights. Will never see much use due to running costs.
> 
> I did consider this once upon a time, but a Mag 2D ROP turned out to be the better option for my particular needs.


 
You need to invest in Fivemega's 3x17670 and some AW 17670's my friend. Longer runtime than the MN21 and brighter. Run the MN61 or LF HO-M6R http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2965

You can run it all you want and never have to buy new batteries.


----------



## wquiles

+1 After using my two M6's for a while now, I can also say that rechargeable solutions are the only true way to enjoy the M6. My two HDM6 packs use LiIon, but the as noted above a few other solutions are available as well.

Will


----------



## Illum

BSBG said:


> Me, I'd get a second head to keep the incan option available, or another M6, or....



or just leave it in your collection...
Size15s might twak me for this but...behold the mighty tower of Turbos!


----------



## Monocrom

gallagho said:


> UK highstreet prices are crazy...
> 
> 6 123A in the shops £30 :sick2:


 
Oh crap! That's nearly $60 American, or $10 each! 

I've heard that the easiest rechargeable solution is to use the high-output Lumens Factory lamp designed for the M6, and just toss in 6 RCR123 cells.


----------



## Illum

Monocrom said:


> Oh crap! That's nearly $60 American, or $10 each!
> 
> I've heard that the easiest rechargeable solution is to use the high-output Lumens Factory lamp designed for the M6, and just toss in 6 RCR123 cells.



I'd prefer the 3x17670 holders...RCR123A at best yields 750mah while 17670s yield 1600mah, [slightly] more runtime, and less cells to recharge

too bad fivemega sold all his stock already:candle:


----------



## Size15's

Illum_the_nation,
You do realise that that photo doesn't have any of the half-a-dozen or so crenelated bezel Millennium TurboHeads or the couple of scalloped bezel Millennium TurboHeads I also have... ?


----------



## Tempest UK

Size15's said:


> Illum_the_nation,
> You do realise that that photo doesn't have any of the half-a-dozen or so crenelated bezel Millennium TurboHeads or the couple of scalloped bezel Millennium TurboHeads I also have... ?



Good holy gooseberries  That's...lots.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## cyberpunk

Well - I went and did it. Just joined the ranks of those with 2 M6's! Just ordered an M6-CB from Optics HQ (to go with my standard M6).

As I mentioned previously, I knew upon bringing my first M6 home that I'd be getting a second one. This light is simply _that good!_ Having said that, I was surprised at how few Surefire dealers in my area carry them! I've probably browsed the flashlight section of 10 Surefire dealers in the past few weeks. Two of them had a single M6 in stock - neither of which was an M6-CB. I'll probably get this one home and immediately realize I need to join the ranks of those that own 3 of these monsters, so that I can distribute them throughout the house/cars! 

I knew I could order one online at any time, but I figured I might pick one up if I were to see one in a store. I've given up on that!

In any case, I'm happy to give Optics HQ my business, and I'm looking forward to a second M6. Now I can play around and mod one up, and keep the other one 'stock'!


----------



## Illum

Size15's said:


> Illum_the_nation,
> You do realise that that photo doesn't have any of the half-a-dozen or so crenelated bezel Millennium TurboHeads or the couple of scalloped bezel Millennium TurboHeads I also have... ?



nope I didn't...its been awhile since I last visited your site too:shakehead
I think you should update your pic:wave:


----------



## paulr

Am I the only one who prefers the non-crenellated model? I'm not exactly in the market for one but sort of keep half an eye on CPFMP for them anyway, and rarely see them compared with the crenellated versions.


----------



## cyberpunk

paulr said:


> Am I the only one who prefers the non-crenellated model? I'm not exactly in the market for one but sort of keep half an eye on CPFMP for them anyway, and rarely see them compared with the crenellated versions.


 
I don't know that I prefer the the crenellated over the non-crenellated. I like them both - and being in the market for a second, I preferred the crenellated since I didn't already have one.

I do suspect, however, that most people prefer the crenellated model.


----------



## BillBond

I have one that I use as a spotlight on my boat,
and only use the M20 bulb, and it is the best thing available.
Regular marine spotlights would rarely last a season before having to be replaced.

I would like to see a light with leds that can match the output, 
probably only a matter of time.


----------



## js

Illum_the_nation said:


> I'd prefer the 3x17670 holders...RCR123A at best yields 750mah while 17670s yield 1600mah, [slightly] more runtime, and less cells to recharge
> 
> too bad fivemega sold all his stock already:candle:



The 750mAh RCR123A's are two parallel stacks of three. Thus the capacity is doubled to 1500mAh, which is, as you correctly say, slightly less than the 1600mAh, but there isn't any need to buy a FM holder, however, so that's a plus.


----------



## seattlite

I just found this thread. 

Everytime I use my M6-R with the JS built regulated battery pack, I have a large grin on my face! Over 500 regulated lumens with the MN21...NICE! Would I use the M6 as much as I do now without a rechargeable solution....nope.

I do have a 3x17670 fivemega battery holder just in case my M6-R pack fails...but currently I have no need to use it since the JS pack works as designed.

Hmm...will the M6-R work with the Lumens Factory HO-M6R to give me more ouput than the MN21? Anyone using a JS M6-R pack with the HO-M6R? 

KUDOS to JS for building such and AMAZING pack! Looking forward to the JS M6-R ver 2.0.


----------



## eshishlo

paulr said:


> Am I the only one who prefers the non-crenellated model? I'm not exactly in the market for one but sort of keep half an eye on CPFMP for them anyway, and rarely see them compared with the crenellated versions.


 
I also prefer the smooth bezel. I have 2 bezels and just 1 body. When I purchased mine it came from a florida police officer and the smooth bezel had a crack in the lens. I sent it to surefire and got it back in a week with a new lens. Now my heavily crenelated bezel is in a box and the smooth one is in use. I dont like scaring people more than I have to.


----------



## Illum

js said:


> The 750mAh RCR123A's are two parallel stacks of three. Thus the capacity is doubled to 1500mAh, which is, as you correctly say, slightly less than the 1600mAh, but there isn't any need to buy a FM holder, however, so that's a plus.



my only hope is someone come up with a charger that has up to 6 expendable bays to charge multiple li-ions:candle:


----------



## adamlau

I favor the M6-CB over the M6. But after watching the PH50 decimate my M6 + 3x17670 + MN61 either either bezel, my opinion of the M6 in general has fallen by the wayside. Honest opinion of the M6? Five out of a ten scale.


----------



## eshishlo

adamlau said:


> I favor the M6-CB over the M6. But after watching the PH50 decimate my M6 + 3x17670 + MN61 either either bezel, my opinion of the M6 in general has fallen by the wayside. Honest opinion of the M6? Five out of a ten scale.


 
Well for the price, the M6 is a good light. 

You would have to compare the Polarion to the Beast


----------



## js

seattlite said:


> I just found this thread.
> 
> Everytime I use my M6-R with the JS built regulated battery pack, I have a large grin on my face! Over 500 regulated lumens with the MN21...NICE! Would I use the M6 as much as I do now without a rechargeable solution....nope.
> 
> I do have a 3x17670 fivemega battery holder just in case my M6-R pack fails...but currently I have no need to use it since the JS pack works as designed.
> 
> Hmm...will the M6-R work with the Lumens Factory HO-M6R to give me more ouput than the MN21? Anyone using a JS M6-R pack with the HO-M6R?
> 
> KUDOS to JS for building such and AMAZING pack! Looking forward to the JS M6-R ver 2.0.



seattlite,

Hey there! Excellent! You're, like, :thinking: , one of the three people who actually uses his M6-R pack! How cool!

Seriously, though, it's really great to know that the pack I made you is getting good use. But, if you ever stop using it so much, at least make sure to charge it once a month, otherwise if left sitting too long the very small current draw from the idleing regulator will drag the pack down to dangerously low levels. If you charge it once a month no matter what, you will stay well away from that condition. Probably once every two months would be sufficient, but once a month is better.

As for the MN21 or LF HO-M6R, the M6-R pack is regulated to exactly 6.8 volts DC-equivalent, so you can really only use the MN21 or MN16 if you want a nice white beam. The MN20 will work, but will be underdriven. Same goes for MN15 and N2. The HO-M6R would be even more underdriven, as it is looking for a significantly higher voltage than 6.8 volts, since its made to work from R123's in the holder instead of CR123A primaries.

Anyway, thanks so much for posting! It made my day.


----------



## Lunal_Tic

Due in part to the information in this thread, I just put together a M6+LF bulb+FM battery holder and so far I'm really liking it. I'm much more likely to use this regularly than my MN21 equipped M6 since CR123 batteries on this side of the planet are still pretty pricey.

Thanks guys for the info and to _js_ for getting me hooked on the M6 in the first place. :thumbsup:

-LT


----------



## js

> Thanks guys for the info and to js for getting me hooked on the M6 in the first place.



Lunal_Tic,

Did **I** do that? hehe. Sorry. *cough* . . . I mean, you're welcome, that is.


----------



## Lunal_Tic

js said:


> Lunal_Tic,
> 
> Did **I** do that? hehe. Sorry. *cough* . . . I mean, you're welcome, that is.



Yep, 'fraid so.  IIRC it was a thread and PMs down below when the second run of the M6R was being contemplated. It's been a while now I guess but this newly put together M6 reminded me again how much fun it is to have one.

-LT


----------



## cy

always use my M6R pack! one of the best pieces of gear I've ever purchased! 

M6 is my bump in the night light. but I've also used M6 a lot when a large amount of light is needed for longer runs. recently a city crew was repairing a water main break in the middle of the night. they were digging up my neighbors front yard using cheap flashlights that barely worked. M6 w/M6R lit up the night for em. 

it's really nice to have the luxury of using M6 w/NM21 in it's full glory without worry about costs of 6x CR123's.


----------



## js

cy said:


> always use my M6R pack! one of the best pieces of gear I've ever purchased!
> 
> M6 is my bump in the night light. but I've also used M6 a lot when a large amount of light is needed for longer runs. recently a city crew was repairing a water main break in the middle of the night. they were digging up my neighbors front yard using cheap flashlights that barely worked. M6 w/M6R lit up the night for em.
> 
> it's really nice to have the luxury of using M6 w/NM21 in it's full glory without worry about costs of 6x CR123's.



cy,

:bow: :bow: :bow:

Coming from you, this is a *HUGE* compliment! Wow! I don't know what to say, except "Thank You. You're too kind!"


----------



## wquiles

cy said:


> always use my M6R pack! one of the best pieces of gear I've ever purchased!
> 
> M6 is my bump in the night light. but I've also used M6 a lot when a large amount of light is needed for longer runs. recently a city crew was repairing a water main break in the middle of the night. they were digging up my neighbors front yard using cheap flashlights that barely worked. M6 w/M6R lit up the night for em.
> 
> it's really nice to have the luxury of using M6 w/NM21 in it's full glory without worry about costs of 6x CR123's.



+1 Once you go rechargeable, the M6 trully becomes perfect!

Here is an old thread when I assembled my own M6R pack with much help from js:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124058

and another one looking into the "inner" workings of the actual regulator and how to change the set voltage:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=125451

Truth is that js came up with the first rechargeable solution: the M6R pack. Not only the first, but trully a piece of art - no detail was overlooked. Trully a lot of though and innovation went into this pack, and even Wille Hunt contributed to the project. Talk about something that made a significant impact on the useability of the M6. 

Kudos to you js :thumbsup:

Will


----------



## leukos

I've been trying to come up with a regulated setup for my M6 and decided to make it compatable with FM's battery holders. I wanted the regulator with the light rather than with the battery pack, so that is why I did it this way. CY was kind enough to sell me a spare M6 tailcap and with a Willie Hunt LVR I lifted from a lightingpro.org light and a little dremmel work I ended up with something ugly but functional. Here is my sloppy work:















I'm pretty happy with the results, though it is not directly compatable with M6 lamps as such (I need an LVR with the correct voltage). But I have a suitable WA lamp that will work quite well once FM's bi-pin adapters are available. :thumbsup:



Update:
Now that FM's bi-pin adapters have become available, I have been running a WA1195 lamp with over three hours of runtime on the 3x17670 battery pack and LVR. I'll keep experimenting with bulbs when I can get my hands on them.


----------



## wquiles

Very creative 

That LVR does look smaller than the one js used in his M6R packs. I take it this one was also set for 6.8V DC?

Will


----------



## ttran97

Lookie what I got here! I traded my "M6 Guardian" body with Leukos and so now I have all of the older styles with the different inscriptions on the side...so I just need to pick up another M6 Guardian, then I'll have all 4! Yay! 

Thanks again to Leukos for a smooth trade and for helping me round out my M6 collection!


----------



## leukos

:thumbsup:


----------



## Illum

:twothumbs


----------



## Patriot

ttran97 said:


> Lookie what I got here! I traded my "M6 Guardian" body with Leukos and so now I have all of the older styles with the different inscriptions on the side...so I just need to pick up another M6 Guardian, then I'll have all 4! Yay!
> 
> Thanks again to Leukos for a smooth trade and for helping me round out my M6 collection!




I love 'em !!

What do the Millennium series etched M6's display on the other side?


----------



## ttran97

Patriot36 said:


> What do the Millennium series etched M6's display on the other side?



The other side are all identical...same as the current M6 Guardian. This is an old picture with the Guardian in the middle.

I really hope that there aren't any other "secret" M6 boy etchings out there...or else I'll have to find them and get them! I know there are the ones with mistakes...but I doubt I'll find someone willing to let go of one of those!


----------



## BMF

How is it compared to Wolf Eyes M90 Rattlesnake w/extension using D36 700 lumens? Is it worth the different in price?


----------



## Tempest UK

ttran97 said:


> Lookie what I got here! I traded my "M6 Guardian" body with Leukos and so now I have all of the older styles with the different inscriptions on the side...so I just need to pick up another M6 Guardian, then I'll have all 4! Yay!
> 
> Thanks again to Leukos for a smooth trade and for helping me round out my M6 collection!



Graaghrbllblblgraghblaaa :green:

That is the sound of intense jealousy  Impressive M6 collection, as always. You should the updated pic in the SureFire thread in Flashlight Collecting.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## K-T

ttran97 said:


> Lookie what I got here! I traded my "M6 Guardian" body with Leukos and so now I have all of the older styles with the different inscriptions on the side...so I just need to pick up another M6 Guardian, then I'll have all 4! Yay!
> 
> Thanks again to Leukos for a smooth trade and for helping me round out my M6 collection!





Nice setup. You miss one of the rare birds though: there were a batch of lights with a missprint. it spelled "MAGNUM*T*LIGHT" , some 150 roughly. They show up once a while here or on ebay. I would love to have one of those.


----------



## ttran97

Tempest UK said:


> Graaghrbllblblgraghblaaa :green:
> 
> That is the sound of intense jealousy  Impressive M6 collection, as always. You should the updated pic in the SureFire thread in Flashlight Collecting.
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest



I'll update that picture when I re-buy the M6 Guardian...then I'll have 4 different M6's! 

Graaghrbllblblgraghblaaa....that's the sound of me being dragged away in a straight jacket into the mental instituation...

haha...





K-T said:


> Nice setup. You miss one of the rare birds though: there were a batch of lights with a missprint. it spelled "MAGNUM*T*LIGHT" , some 150 roughly. They show up once a while here or on ebay. I would love to have one of those.



Yes, I know that I don't have those with the typos. There's no way that anyone who has one of those would let go of one! They're like the purple A2's...who would give up one???


----------



## Tempest UK

ttran97 said:


> I'll update that picture when I re-buy the M6 Guardian...then I'll have 4 different M6's!



I'll have you know that you're largely responsible for me just buying an M6 MagnumLight 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## ttran97

Tempest UK said:


> I'll have you know that you're largely responsible for me just buying an M6 MagnumLight
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest



I saw that in the MP! haha. How many are you up to? 4 now??? 

For the upcoming Guardian, I'll get the regular scalloped bezel...so then I'll have the 3 different bezels too: flat, scalloped, crenellated! Actually, when RPM finishes his Ti M6 bezels, I'll replace one of the flat ones with that. Can't wait!

But I'm not in too much of a hurry to buy a Guardian since they're around everywhere...and I already have 3 M6's. haha...


----------



## DM51

Tempest UK said:


> Graaghrbllblblgraghblaaa :green:


I had no idea you spoke fluent Matabele, but the answer in English is that you will just have to wait - this is not permitted while the train is standing at the station.


----------



## Tempest UK

ttran97 said:


> I saw that in the MP! haha. How many are you up to? 4 now???



A mere 3 at the moment  2 of the Guardians and now the Magnum. 

4 will be very impressive indeed. Will that be a CPF record?

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Illum

unless Size15s admit the total amount of M6 stuff he has built up I dunno about a "record"...more like a "honorable mention"

not to mention G-man's *GENERATION5* [:thinking: is that even an M6?]
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2405804&postcount=36


----------



## ttran97

Illum_the_nation said:


> unless Size15s admit the total amount of M6 stuff he has built up I dunno about a "record"...more like a "honorable mention"



Well, it's not just the sheer number of M6's...but the unique qualities of each one...Anyone can just order 4 Guardians. It takes time/effort/luck to find all of the different ones.


----------



## Monocrom

BMF said:


> How is it compared to Wolf Eyes M90 Rattlesnake w/extension using D36 700 lumens? Is it worth the different in price?


 
I've seen others post that you get about 400 lumens out the front, with that Wolf Eyes set-up. M6 w/ HOLA is at least 500 out the front. 

If I didn't own an M6, that Wolf Eyes set-up is what I'd get. 500 lumens is sweet. 400 lumens is still very sweet.


----------



## kelmo

I finally got to use mine the other night. It's been sitting in my nightstand for the past 3 months. Sacramento gets about 2 weeks of spring weather then it gets HOT! Spring is over. So out come the summer clothes. I put on a baggy pair of cargo shorts for an evening stroll with my lovely wife and it dawned on me the M6 will fit in my pocket! I used a MN15 LA and was very entertained with the beam. I am now running the MN20 LA. That sucker is bright and has a pretty decent discharge curve. 

I am very happy with my M6.

Time to stock up on batteries...


----------



## Hallis

the M6 Seems to me to be a very fine light. It's just one of a list of lights that i'll likely never own due to affordability issues lol. I own only 1 light that could be considered worth that much $. If my financial situation were different than it is i certainly would own one. Every piece of SF hardware that ive ever owned or handeled has been top knotch quality. Maybe one day i'll get to hold one for myself. lol.

Shane


----------



## JohnRussell

I have had mine a couple of weeks now ... it lights up my life. It is a WOW light that I look for when I want to see what is a distance away.


----------



## Patriot

ttran97 said:


> Well, it's not just the sheer number of M6's...but the unique qualities of each one...Anyone can just order 4 Guardians. It takes time/effort/luck to find all of the different ones.




A "Magnumlight" sold in the marketplace for $300. I thought that was a pretty good deal and almost jumped on it myself.


----------



## maxa beam

Eh, incans like this had their day.. But with efficient multi-die emitters like the P7, lights like the new UB2 Invictus are gonna be dethroning the M6.

They'll always be a great collector's light, though. I find the M6 to be a very attractive light; Surefire handles large flashlights well.


----------



## Illum

maxa beam said:


> Eh, incans like this had their day.. But with efficient multi-die emitters like the P7, lights like the new UB2 Invictus are gonna be dethroning the M6.
> 
> They'll always be a great collector's light, though. I find the M6 to be a very attractive light; Surefire handles large flashlights well.



I have yet to see an LED with infrared heating capability that works as efficiently as incandescent though:candle:


----------



## js

maxa beam said:


> Eh, incans like this had their day.. But with efficient multi-die emitters like the P7, lights like the new UB2 Invictus are gonna be dethroning the M6.
> 
> They'll always be a great collector's light, though. I find the M6 to be a very attractive light; Surefire handles large flashlights well.



Incans still have their advantages, especially in foggy and rainy weather, and in areas with a lot of artificial ambient lighting, like parking lots, and especially in the size class of the M6 or larger, and at around the power level of the M6 in the sort of 10W to 35W range. Above that light output level, HID's rules. Below that, LED's. But in that range, incans still have a role to play, in my experience.


----------



## Patriot

maxa beam said:


> Eh, incans like this had their day.. But with efficient multi-die emitters like the P7, lights like the new UB2 Invictus are gonna be dethroning the M6.
> 
> They'll always be a great collector's light, though. I find the M6 to be a very attractive light; Surefire handles large flashlights well.





Someday their time may be over but for the next several years it still has a prominent place. The P7 still has heat issues. DX has or is offering a few different ones but they're coming up far short of their full potential and he UB2 isn't even available yet. As battery technology advances this will also benefit incans. Easy to perform modifications will also prolong the lifespan of lights like the M6. For an extra 19mm in length it can be turned into and WA1111 which is really a lot of performance. If someone would make a smooth reflector for the M6 it would further increase it potency when compared to the best LED throwers. Because it's such a flexible platform, I don't think it's time will be over in the near future.


----------



## Malcom

...


----------



## DM51

Malcom said:


> An overpriced, old technology light.


It's always good to hear the voice of experience, isn't it?


----------



## jayflash

Yes, Malcom, perhaps for most people you might be right, but we're mostly flashaholics.

One cannot soften small PVC for bending with a fancy multi-mode LED. :devil:

JS made a valid point regarding one useful niche for the M6.

The Incan M6 will become a collectors light.


----------



## brunt_sp

DM51 said:


> It's always good to hear the voice of experience, isn't it?


----------



## m16a

I don't care that its old. I don't care that on uber high it only runs 20 minutes. I don't care that its really expensive. I care that it is handheld and 500 lumens. Thats a BOATLOAD of light. Ok so I do care its expensive. I'm not going to be able to afford one any time soon..:mecry: Its a venerable light and its going to hold an important spot in all flashlight collectors' hearts.


----------



## Patriot

DM51 said:


> It's always good to hear the voice of experience, isn't it?



:laughing: Yes it is David...lol


Malcom also thinks that SF is suing Pentagon as a marketing ploy, as indicated in his first ever post on CPF. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2462560#post2462560

Maybe he works for them as is bitter toward SF.


----------



## Tempest UK

Patriot36 said:


> A "Magnumlight" sold in the marketplace for $300. I thought that was a pretty good deal and almost jumped on it myself.



$300 with an SC2 and some extra lamp assemblies 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Patriot

Tempest UK said:


> $300 with an SC2 and some extra lamp assemblies
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest




Cool! 
I didn't want to blurt out your name unless it was your choice to own up to the purchase. A big congratulations on a great deal Tempest. I knew if I bought it I'd have to give up on the binoculars I've been wanting to buy and I already have two M6 now. I'm glad that you got it! You must be very eager to get it now.


----------



## ttran97

Tempest UK said:


> $300 with an SC2 and some extra lamp assemblies
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest



It's still pretty amazing to have 3 M6's. I don't think I'll be getting my 4th for a while. Just worked out a project with milkyspit, so my funds are gonna have to be diverted to that first. Here's a hint...a thrower with nearly 1000 lumen!!! holy cow...

Let us know when you get your latest M6! :thumbsup: Someone should start a thread in the Collections forum...M6 collections!


----------



## Malcom

...


----------



## Size15's

Malcom,
You have joined our community and immediately started down quite a contentious and destructive path without first letting us get to know you.
If you had made even the slightest effort to support your points of view so that we can understand whether you are basing them on experience then its likely the welcome you would have received would have been quite different.
As it is you have added no value so far - worse you have been disruptive and there may well be consequences as a result.

Al


----------



## ugrey

See you later Malcom.


----------



## GLOCK18

Malcom said:


> An overpriced, old technology light.


 
Thats reminds me of the trip I made to Home depot with my brother the other day, were looking at a coast flash light with 48 lumen priced at 25 dollars my brother stated thats hell of a lot of money for a flash light. I then told him about my SF m6 I just bought on an auction site for way below retail, he looked at me as I were crazy to spend that much on "JUST A FLASH LIGHT" as he state. Over priced to sum a deal to other, I think my brother crazy for spending money on his computer evertime a new item comes out. Just my 2 cents


----------



## DM51

Malcom said:


> So, because I have fewer than five posts on this board, you deduce that I'm inexperienced with lights in general or the SureFire M6 specifically? Odd logic, and it's wildly incorrect.
> 
> If you disagree with my opinion regarding this light, then why not say so and state why you think my opinion is off base? Yet, you instead make a both satirical and baiting (and also wrong) comment regarding my experience level! You are now a moderator on this board and should know better. Perhaps your experience level is the real issue here.


I dare say it would be illuminating for us to hear all about your experience, Malcom; however as Size15’s has said, you have made absolutely no effort whatever to tell us about it. 

Instead you made one trollish post in this thread to rudely dismiss a light which is widely regarded as a very fine one by people here who unarguably DO have a great deal of experience. 

Then in a second argumentative and disruptive post you challenge my own knowledge, which I don’t think is really at issue here. I am not about to continue down the detour you have taken this thread in order to give details of my experience of the M6, which is in any case reasonably well documented in the numerous posts I have made about it here on CPF. I’ll leave you to find out about that for yourself, if you wish to do so, by means of the search function. 

Out of the total of four posts you have made so far on CPF, these two have been just about as far as they could possibly be from helpful or constructive. I have looked up your other two posts as well. They are assertive and peremptory, and they don’t contribute anything of value, but at least they don’t appear to be confrontational.

Your behaviour here as a new member has been unpromising. You have made a very bad start. If you had been here longer and posted in this style, there would have been little hesitation in my mind about what to do about you. Instead, I will put your behaviour down to your inexperience. 

This time, you escape a ban – but you are warned that you will need to moderate your attitude and posting style quite radically, or your time here will be very brief.


----------



## JNewell

I'm not going to get into what I think about our new member's post...but I did want to throw out for consideration something I read in the 2008 SureFire illumination tools catalog. It's at the end of the introduction to the xenon incandescents section on page 55:

_So if you decide an incande\scent is for you, decide on a SureFire. You may not be getting the most advanced technology, but you're getting the most technologically advanced incandescent illumination tool money can buy. [emphasis added]_​I read that and thought "how much longer...?" This may qualify as handwriting on the wall...


----------



## JetskiMark

I realize that incandescent bulbs are antique technology. Thats exactly what I like about them. There is something very primitive and satisfying about fire. In this case a white hot filament is contained within a glass envelope.

I enjoy watching the filament's afterglow in my M6's WA1185 after I shut it off.

And I have yet to see an LED with a better tint than a properly overdriven incan.

It doesn't matter if it's an LED, HID, incandescent, florescent, laser, GITD, tritium, plasma, high-voltage arc or a chain dragging from a trailer making sparks. If it produces light, I am interested (and more than likely fascinated and already own an example).


----------



## cyberpunk

JetskiMark said:


> I realize that incandescent bulbs are antique technology. Thats exactly what I like about them. There is something very primitive and satisfying about fire. In this case a white hot filament is contained within a glass envelope.
> 
> I enjoy watching the filament's afterglow in my M6's WA1185 after I shut it off.
> 
> And I have yet to see an LED with a better tint than a properly overdriven incan.
> 
> It doesn't matter if it's an LED, HID, incandescent, florescent, laser, GITD, tritium, plasma, high-voltage arc or a chain dragging from a trailer making sparks. If it produces light, I am interested (and more than likely fascinated and already own an example).


 
Well said! A good light is a good light is a good light.

No matter how you cut it, the M6 is a phenominal light.


----------



## Illum

JNewell said:


> I'm not going to get into what I think about our new member's post...but I did want to throw out for consideration something I read in the 2008 SureFire illumination tools catalog. It's at the end of the introduction to the xenon incandescents section on page 55:_So if you decide an incande\scent is for you, decide on a SureFire. You may not be getting the most advanced technology, but you're getting the most technologically advanced incandescent illumination tool money can buy. [emphasis added]_​I read that and thought "how much longer...?" This may qualify as handwriting on the wall...



well, if you really want to be explicit...incandescent is one of those "primitive" technology thats "rivaling" carbon lights

You'd be surprised that often _*NOT *_using the peak of technology produces some of the most useful lights that still continue to be useful despite the continued progression in technology [although this applies mainly to LEDs] 
[OT/]
If Surefire followed the "cutting edge" the same way we have followed the LED progression Willie Hunt and other great engineers will never have the time they need to engineer and perfect the light's performance to the greatest extent. Surefire's willingness of being conservative is one of those greatest achievements IMO. 
I think Fenix has realized the useful and competitiveness of this perspective and chose to upgrade their LED's while preserving their standardized design. Perhaps this was a reason why we suddenly started wanting higher bin LEDs

Thats two ways of thinking: :huh:
_same LED, different design in application_ versus _different LED, standardized design in application_
[/OT]
Say DM51, have you heard anything from FM considering those MN bi-pins?
Its awfully silent from his end.


----------



## JNewell

> well, if you really want to be explicit


 
Hey, not my words - came straight from the SureFire catalog. I'm keepin' my incans, and my L4, and my other outdated technology! :candle:


----------



## UnderTheWeepingMoon

One thing that I've noticed recently (I'm not sure how long this has been going on for) is that on SF's website, LED lights are now displayed at the top of the _Flashlights_ page, with incans below them. I remember post in the past by someone like Size15's or McGizmo that said that SF had stopped incan R&D. It's clear now that SF are emphasising the marketing of their LED products.

As someone whose SF collection only includes incans, I hope they continue to produce great incan lights into the future :thumbsup:.


----------



## wquiles

I might be now-a-days in a minority, but I "still" like the true colors of a well-driven (and preferably regulated) incandescent light, even though we have so many new/exciting LED lights. When I "need" to see well outdoors, I don't bother with "any" LED light. I just grab one of my two LiIon-regulated M6's (one with MN20, the other with the MN21) - worst case I will grab my A2 (also regulated) = so far no LED can show true colors as these can 

Will


----------



## Illum

JNewell said:


> Hey, not my words - came straight from the SureFire catalog. I'm keepin' my incans, and my L4, and my other outdated technology! :candle:



me too:thumbsup:


----------



## IMSabbel

DM51 said:


> It's always good to hear the voice of experience, isn't it?



But its true. Theres nothing there to justify the price OR the fandom. Just a metal tube, a reflector and a plain mass production bulb. 
And a (after reading people complain here) seemingly notoriously failing switch.

Nothing really to justify that fandom. The mere fact that people can make a better light out of a 3D maglight with 1/3rd of the cost speaks volumes.


----------



## DM51

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it; however others have a different view. If they didn't, no-one would want an M6, and everyone who owned M6s would be getting rid of them as fast as possible. That isn’t happening.

Your description "Just a metal tube, a reflector and a plain mass production bulb" is a very over-simplistic description, as I would hope you will agree. I don't want to rehash here all the particular qualities of the M6 which set it apart from other lights - you will find mention of them in numerous other threads, and some of them have already been mentioned in this one.

Where I think there is little doubt, and where I think you and I will probably agree, is that it seems highly unlikely that Surefire will be putting any more of its R&D efforts into Incan technology. Their energies are clearly all now going into developing LED technology and new LED lights. The UA2 looks as if it will replace the M3, the UB2 will do the same for the M4, and it will be a short step from there to something even more powerful, to replace the M6.

Production of the large SF Incan lights will probably cease at some stage, maybe even within the next 2 or 3 years, but there will be many who will still value them. I won’t be getting rid of mine.


----------



## adamlau

I do not believe a better light (in terms of durability and functional form) based on the Maglite platform can be made for 1/3 the cost of an M6 (much less an M6-CB). Stripping and subsequent HA, or plating of the Maglite would be required and only an LED tower module, or HID bulb with ballast would offer the shock resistance offered to MN lamps by the Millennium TurboHead housing. We have not even taken into account the cost of additional accessories such as a reflector and lens to counter the SureFire MOP and Pyrex and the loss of both finger grooves and a factory warranty.


----------



## Hitthespot

DM51 said:


> Where I think there is little doubt, and where I think you and I will probably agree, is that it seems highly unlikely that Surefire will be putting any more of its R&D efforts into Incan technology. Their energies are clearly all now going into developing LED technology and new LED lights. The UA2 looks as if it will replace the M3, the UB2 will do the same for the M4, and it will be a short step from there to something even more powerful, to replace the M6.
> 
> Production of the large SF Incan lights will probably cease at some stage, maybe even within the next 2 or 3 years, but there will be many who will still value them. I won’t be getting rid of mine.


 
I was just about to say the same thing. Well said Dave. There was a time when the M6 was right there as one of the epitomes of flashlight technology. If you needed a bright light there were (or are) few sexier than the M6. As technology advances it stands to reason that it will take a back seat to a new light(s), probably within the next 12 to 18 months. It will be interesting to see how long it takes Surefire to discountue the M6 even after technololy starts to pass it by. There are those who still prefer a incand to the cooler LED's of today.

Bill


----------



## wquiles

Hitthespot said:


> There are those who still prefer a incand to the cooler LED's of today.



Me, me, me - guilty as charged 

Will


----------



## Tempest UK

IMSabbel said:


> Nothing really to justify that fandom. The mere fact that people can make a better light out of a 3D maglight with 1/3rd of the cost speaks volumes.



You clearly lack an understanding of the M6. Whilst your comments might be justified in the context of a "flashaholic", they are completely out of touch with what the M6 is intended for. If a modified Maglite was simply "better" than the M6, we would see SWAT teams employing them for forced entry and room clearance, see them carried in far corners of the world by military servicemen and women and have them mounted as weaponlights. This is clearly not the case.

SureFire never intended the M6 to be a light for the average CPFer/flashaholic. Saying that you don't like the M6 is fine, but it says nothing about the light itself as you are judging it in a completely unsuitable manner. The M6 may not be for you, as it is a very specialised light, but I don't think a comparison to a modified maglite is fair.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Team Member

My small sample of M6s is not going to leave me. I see my M6s as a "Less lethal" weapon. So far, non of the bad guys that I have meet in a building search or during training, have been able to fight back after a massive overdose of blinding light...

Some say that it might be too big for some serious use but I can´t even image myself without it. I´ll guess it would be something like trying to survive a MOUT fight without a gun..

Here´s an old pic of my M6s underneath a Kroma.


----------



## RichS

Tempest UK said:


> You clearly lack an understanding of the M6. Whilst your comments might be justified in the context of a "flashaholic", they are completely out of touch with what the M6 is intended for. If a modified Maglite was simply "better" than the M6, we would see SWAT teams employing them for forced entry and room clearance, see them carried in far corners of the world by military servicemen and women and have them mounted as weaponlights. This is clearly not the case.
> 
> SureFire never intended the M6 to be a light for the average CPFer/flashaholic. Saying that you don't like the M6 is fine, but it says nothing about the light itself as you are judging it in a completely unsuitable manner. The M6 may not be for you, as it is a very specialized light, but I don't think a comparison to a modified maglite is fair.
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


Well said Tempest. I have two premium modded Mags putting out 1300+ and 1400+ lumens w/ soft start & multi-level AW switches, and 3300mAH li-ion AW C batteries for runtime. These put out far more light than the M6, but neither light compares to M6 in the area of ultra-reliability and defense purposes. If I was headed for a conflict, there wouldn't be a second thought as to which light I would be taking. The M6 would be in my pack, and my Mag mods would be staying home. 

After owning the M6, I really can't understand some of the comments questioning the worth and value of this light. I guess you just have to own one to appreciate it. Out of the many nice incandescent and "high tech"  LED lights I have, this is my clear favorite. As Tempest says, it is a highly specialized light, but in it's element outdoors and used in medium and long range distances, it really shines. That is when it really feels good to own one of these lights. 

M6 Outdated?? Well, first show me a light that does it's job better and we'll talk.


----------



## Team Member

Well said RichS :thumbsup:


----------



## Tempest UK

Team Member, nice picture of your M6s 

Good to get an account of the M6 in use from someone really putting it through its intended paces 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## ttran97

Wow....Team Member has 4 M6's!!! I think that's the first time I've seen that. Can anyone else remember seeing 4 (or more)?


----------



## Tempest UK

I don't think so 

I'd be happy to be proven wrong though 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## ttran97

Tempest UK said:


> I don't think so
> 
> I'd be happy to be proven wrong though
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest



We're lagging behind, Tempest! Just one more to go and you'll be tied! I know you can do it! :laughing:


----------



## Tempest UK

A 4th would certainly be something, but it might be a bit of a problem to justify :sick2: So far I have identified a genuine, vital requirement for 3 (honest...) - one for the MN15, MN20 and MN21. 

But I don't have any -CB Millennium TurboHeads  And there must be one of those "Millennium Series M6" engraved models floating around waiting to be snapped up 

And PK, if you're reading this, a purple M6 would match nicely with my A2 and 6P 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## ttran97

Tempest UK said:


> A 4th would certainly be something, but it might be a bit of a problem to justify :sick2: So far I have identified a genuine, vital requirement for 3 (honest...) - one for the MN15, MN20 and MN21.
> 
> But I don't have any -CB Millennium TurboHeads  And there must be one of those "Millennium Series M6" engraved models floating around waiting to be snapped up
> 
> And PK, if you're reading this, a purple M6 would match nicely with my A2 and 6P



You're forgetting the 3x17670 setup with either MN61, MN60, or LF-M6R bulb! There ya go!

Those "Millennium Series M6" engraved ones sure are beautiful and hard to find! :naughty:

And PK...forget about purple...how about black???


----------



## Team Member

Tempest UK said:


> A 4th would certainly be something, but it might be a bit of a problem to justify :sick2: So far I have identified a genuine, vital requirement for 3 (honest...)



And I will gladly help you out with a reason for a 4th..

*"Some consider them as a piece of modern art"*

Now that tastes good when you say it


----------



## JetskiMark

I think a fourth with a WA1185 and 3x17670s would be easy to justify. It would be your brightest M6 and guilt free lumens too.


----------



## Illum

ttran97 said:


> You're forgetting the 3x17670 setup with either MN61, MN60, or LF-M6R bulb! There ya go!
> 
> Those "Millennium Series M6" engraved ones sure are beautiful and hard to find! :naughty:
> 
> And PK...forget about purple...how about black???



Last I remember DM51 has a black M6, it doesn't look as good as HA nat. 



IMSabbel said:


> But its true. Theres nothing there to justify the price OR the fandom. Just a metal tube, a reflector and a plain mass production bulb.
> And a (after reading people complain here) seemingly notoriously failing switch.
> 
> Nothing really to justify that fandom. The mere fact that people can make a better light out of a 3D maglight with 1/3rd of the cost speaks volumes.



I take it you never owned an M6...

If your definition of a flashlight is what you stated here believe me Surefire did an "engineering overkill" on the M6:nana:

failing switch? ha! your reading up on the E series having clickie failures, the M6 uses a twisty...failure rates are quite low being that it isn't spring operated.:shrug:

yeah yeah, once awhile we all complain about the cost...better light? mag stock? 
d00d, buy yourself one from the BST play with it, use it, then comment on it. Don't look at a picture then speculating the pros and cons by looking at one without handling one

I think that goes with you too Malcom


----------



## Patriot

adamlau said:


> I do not believe a better light (in terms of durability and functional form) based on the Maglite platform can be made for 1/3 the cost of an M6 (much less an M6-CB). Stripping and subsequent HA, or plating of the Maglite would be required and only an LED tower module, or HID bulb with ballast would offer the shock resistance offered to MN lamps by the Millennium TurboHead housing. We have not even taken into account the cost of additional accessories such as a reflector and lens to counter the SureFire MOP and Pyrex and the loss of both finger grooves and a factory warranty.



Great points Adam, and you didn't even get into waterproofing. I wonder how many maglites can handle 30+ feet of water.......





> *JetSkiMark
> *It doesn't matter if it's an LED, HID, incandescent, florescent, laser, GITD, tritium, plasma, high-voltage arc or a chain dragging from a trailer making sparks. If it produces light, I am interested (and more than likely fascinated and already own an example).




I love it it!!!! :twothumbs


----------



## Tempest UK

Look what the M6 fairy brought :devil:






...I can dream 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## socom1970

Illum_the_nation said:


> Last I remember DM51 has a black M6, it doesn't look as good as HA nat.
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you never owned an M6...
> 
> If your definition of a flashlight is what you stated here believe me Surefire did an "engineering overkill" on the M6:nana:
> 
> failing switch? ha! your reading up on the E series having clickie failures, the M6 uses a twisty...failure rates are quite low being that it isn't spring operated.:shrug:
> 
> yeah yeah, once awhile we all complain about the cost...better light? mag stock?
> d00d, buy yourself one from the BST play with it, use it, then comment on it. Don't look at a picture then speculating the pros and cons by looking at one without handling one
> 
> I think that goes with you too Malcom



+1 on everything Illum just said. IMHO, anyone who has the sort of low opinions about the M6 previously stated must not have one. I have one so far and I LOVE IT!!!!!!!! I have seen and used the MagMods (very awesome in their own right!), as well as other big, bad lights, and I WILL BET MY MONEY AND MY LIFE ON MY M6 EVERYTIME!!!!! I have NEVER had a problem with my M6 tailcap. I have had excellent use out of my M6. And I DO use it just about everyday. No M6 shelf queen here. I have MANY Surefires (Incan and LED), as well as MANY other lights from very good manufacturers, (Arc, HDS, Inova, MagCharger, UK, Browning, IkeLight, Streamlight) and I choose my M6 as one of my EDC/EveryDayUse lights. I LOVE Surefire incans. No LED I have seen yet matches the beautiful color and beam of a Surefire beam. I love my LED's, too, but as I have read in someone else's sig line, "LED's impress, but Incans satisfy". The M6 is the only light I have that I want more of besides my A2's. As for the cost, the answer to that is found in another sig line here, "Buy quality and you cry only once". I absolutely believe that. And lastly, for those who, for whatever reason, feel they have to take nasty pot-shots at incans or anything else they don't like, If you don't like it, fine. But be nice about it. You do not have the only opinion in this forum or this world. You are a very small minority. If you don't believe me, READ the posts here about the M6 or any other fine light discussed here, Incan or otherwise. I have read MANY, MANY posts here (and I've only been here for a few years) from many CPF'ers and Moderators who I have come to respect and regard VERY highly. It is because of them and many outstanding CPF'ers here that my casual interest has become so much more. I have developed a genuine appreciation for all lighting technologies. What you hopefully will one day understand is that all light technologies , incan and otherwise, have their use and will continue to serve and please all of us who use and truly appreciate them.


----------



## Illum

ttran97 said:


> Wow....Team Member has 4 M6's!!! I think that's the first time I've seen that. Can anyone else remember seeing 4 (or more)?




I thought you've seen this thread?
*Please don't show my wife my Surefire collection!*




ttran97 said:


> You're forgetting the 3x17670 setup with either MN61, MN60, or LF-M6R bulb! There ya go!
> 
> Those "Millennium Series M6" engraved ones sure are beautiful and hard to find! :naughty:
> 
> And PK...forget about purple...how about black???



Forget purple or black, why not orange!?

Tempest, 
you need help, alot of help
thats one hell of a photoshop:twothumbs


----------



## Tempest UK

Illum_the_nation said:


> Last I remember DM51 has a black M6, it doesn't look as good as HA nat.



Hmm, I remember another user posting a picture of a "Millennium Series M2 Magnum Light", which was a prototype/basis for the M6 that was black. I can't remember ever seeing an M6-HA-BK, so that would be cool to see if DM51 does have one 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Illum

trust me, I'm working hard to find it...I only hope it wasn't a HA M6 shot in a dim room instead...
I distinctly remember a pic of it along with a line that says something to the words of "everything just looks better in black"

stuff like this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2248568&postcount=87 

as for "chromed" M6s, tvodrd's bare aluminum kinda hints the aspect...tell you the truth a chromed M6 won't look good at all
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2273218&postcount=10

pic rehosted


----------



## DM51

Illum_the_nation said:


> Last I remember DM51 has a black M6


I wish!!! I hate to disappoint you, but mine are regular HA Nat. I don't think any M6-BKs have been made, AFAIK.


----------



## Size15's

I've got a photo of an M6 in Black.


----------



## Tempest UK

Size15's said:


> I've got a photo of an M6 in Black.



Then I think you know what the next few posts are going to be asking for 



Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Size15's

They are hosted on my gallery if you want to hunt out the photos


----------



## Tempest UK

Size15's said:


> They are hosted on my gallery if you want to hunt out the photos



*grabs dart gun and novelty size butterfly net*

Here we go...

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## maxa beam

js said:


> Incans still have their advantages, especially in foggy and rainy weather, and in areas with a lot of artificial ambient lighting, like parking lots, and especially in the size class of the M6 or larger, and at around the power level of the M6 in the sort of 10W to 35W range. Above that light output level, HID's rules. Below that, LED's. But in that range, incans still have a role to play, in my experience.


Their horrid efficiency, and terrible heat output outweigh any pluses in my opinion. And color tempurature is no excuse, I expect LEDs to have a color tempurature as good as incans or better. (I personally prefer light on the blue side, reddish light just isn't fetching in photography.
As LED efficiency and technology improves, you can expect them to take over the 30Wish range, too. HIDs will always have a place, though. (Unless LEDs surpass them, too, which they might. Data's Data Bank 70 is mighty impressive, and you can bet efficiency in LEDs will go up to around 250W in due time.)






Someone said:


> Someday their time may be over but for the next several years it still has a prominent place. The P7 still has heat issues. DX has or is offering a few different ones but they're coming up far short of their full potential and he UB2 isn't even available yet. As battery technology advances this will also benefit incans. Easy to perform modifications will also prolong the lifespan of lights like the M6. For an extra 19mm in length it can be turned into and WA1111 which is really a lot of performance. If someone would make a smooth reflector for the M6 it would further increase it potency when compared to the best LED throwers. Because it's such a flexible platform, I don't think it's time will be over in the near future.



If it's underdriven, it has no problem. An incan putting out similar light would get much hotter.

The UB2, according to someone on CPF, has been said to be released before the Optimus, and various manufacturers are pegging the Optimus at a June release date. (The batteryjunction person said June 30th is their release.)


Maybe if you just HAVE to have incan's color tempurature, you might prefer incan, but their run-time and efficiency, and heat output, is absolutely atrocious. I, for one, went incan, and will never go back.


----------



## Tempest UK

Al - I can't find it on your www.pk-e.com galleries :sigh:

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Size15's

Tempest UK said:


> Al - I can't find it on your www.pk-e.com galleries :sigh:
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


If I had meant that gallery I would have found it myself. :nana:
My personal gallery website has been damaged for a while but the photos are still there - they just have to be viewed one at a time in a very annoying way.
You're welcome to trawl through them...


----------



## Illum

pic rehosted from cache



oh ttrans97.... :bump:


----------



## ttran97

Good job finding the black M6, Illum! \

I'm hoping now that Surefire has gotten a lot better with the black HAIII, they'll get around to making the Special Ops likes in black HAIII, too. So far, the U2, Kroma, E2e-BK, E2DL, E1B-BK, and E1e-BK are all black HAIII, right?

Hey Al and other old timers...doesn't Illum kind of remind you of that one Dan kid from Virginia? Logic nerd or something like that? haha. :twothumbs


----------



## Illum

ttran97 said:


> Good job finding the black M6, Illum! \
> 
> I'm hoping now that Surefire has gotten a lot better with the black HAIII, they'll get around to making the Special Ops likes in black HAIII, too. So far, the U2, Kroma, E2e-BK, E2DL, E1B-BK, and E1e-BK are all black HAIII, right?
> 
> Hey Al and other old timers...doesn't Illum kind of remind you of that one Dan kid from Virginia? Logic nerd or something like that? haha. :twothumbs



LOL:nana:
 I have saved 870 threads dating as old as 2001
Size15s site before it went down
[email protected]'s formal site tjtech
2006 flashlight collection
2007 flashlight collection
all of cr123A explosion threads
darell's site [with "nude" pics of gizmo dating as old as 2004 cambria]
All of Kiessling's mclux FAQs
Luxeon binning charts
Maycooper's site [I can't read it cuz its in dutch]
All of surefires catalogs in PDF
All of surefires user manuals in PDF
excluding the latest SHOT all of pk-e.com
Show yourself thread with user name listed per picture...theres currently 260 members with pics [includes famous people like [email protected], PK, and Kiessling]
miscellaneous pics posted by users and named with appropriate credentials
I have loaded everyone whom I've dealt with on Google earth [I needed a spare record because I do lose MO receipts]

others include
135 threads from Taiwan's AKIMASA forum
121 threads from HK_flashlight forum in Hong Kong
43 threads from Shoudian and misc user pics

all together 4.27GB, 44306 Files, 1413 Folders with selected threads updated daily. While others I have saved because I didn't have time to read it when I saved it are deleted accordingly.

With an unstable connection, I've grown used to saving threads here and there. I dare say I can spend a whole day reading old threads while offline, then when the connections good, then I would read up new threads. 

All this information exists on a simple 8GB CF card...I'm contemplating an encryption:nana:


----------



## greenLED

ttran97 said:


> Good job finding the black M6, Illum! \
> 
> I'm hoping now that Surefire has gotten a lot better with the black HAIII, they'll get around to making the Special Ops likes in black HAIII, too. So far, the U2, Kroma, E2e-BK, E2DL, E1B-BK, and E1e-BK are all black HAIII, right?
> 
> Hey Al and other old timers...doesn't Illum kind of remind you of that one Dan kid from Virginia? Logic nerd or something like that? haha. :twothumbs


You forgot the A2, tt.

I'm a sucker for HA-BK.

After much deliberation I finally got an MN15 for my M6. 

What's the consensus on those LED tower modules in the M6?


----------



## ttran97

greenLED said:


> You forgot the A2, tt.
> 
> I'm a sucker for HA-BK.
> 
> After much deliberation I finally got an MN15 for my M6.
> 
> What's the consensus on those LED tower modules in the M6?



Ah yes...the A2. I was thinking more along the lines of "normal" lights, not the rare gems out there. But yeah, the A2 sure looks beautiful in black!

I had one of the LED towers for the M6, and I liked that it had long run time...over 5.5 hours! But the brightness and throw weren't enough for me to justify carrying a light that big around. The one I had was supposed to be around 250 lumen. I might as well just carry a 6P with a Malkoff for that amount of light. 

If someone (ahem, milkyspit) can make a P7 tower module that will give the M6 around 500 - 800 lumen for say an hour of runtime...I think that would be a true winner and bring the M6 into the LED age!


----------



## seery

ttran97 said:


> So far, the U2, Kroma, E2e-BK, E2DL, E1B-BK, and E1e-BK are all black HAIII, right?


Don't forget about the Beast II...it's black HIII.


----------



## Illum

seery said:


> Don't forget about the Beast II...it's black HIII.



your kidding?
I never noticed that


----------



## Tempest UK

Illum_the_nation said:


> pic rehosted from cache
> oh ttrans97.... :bump:



Pff, that's no M6, that's an M2 

Is that the photo you meant Al? Or is there a photo of black M6 floating around, including a hard anodised Millennium TurboHead?

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## cy

all that changes with JS's M6R...

besides being able to run M6 for next to free. M6R changes characteristics completely. extended run temps barely gets warm, output increase and is regulated. 

incand's advantage for a bump in the night light is undisputed. M6's ergonomics make it the world's best bump in the night light. 

correct me if I'm wrong... LED's doesn't have the broad spectrum output incant's have. don't have detail research to back this up. have always suspected incant's performance advantage for outside lighting is directly related to it's broad spectrum output. 

LED are my choice for EDC. but for some applications incant is the best. sure HID's are brighter, but I need instant on in a user friendly size. 



maxa beam said:


> Their horrid efficiency, and terrible heat output outweigh any pluses in my opinion. And color tempurature is no excuse, I expect LEDs to have a color tempurature as good as incans or better. (I personally prefer light on the blue side, reddish light just isn't fetching in photography.
> As LED efficiency and technology improves, you can expect them to take over the 30Wish range, too. HIDs will always have a place, though. (Unless LEDs surpass them, too, which they might. Data's Data Bank 70 is mighty impressive, and you can bet efficiency in LEDs will go up to around 250W in due time.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it's underdriven, it has no problem. An incan putting out similar light would get much hotter.
> 
> The UB2, according to someone on CPF, has been said to be released before the Optimus, and various manufacturers are pegging the Optimus at a June release date. (The batteryjunction person said June 30th is their release.)
> 
> 
> Maybe if you just HAVE to have incan's color tempurature, you might prefer incan, but their run-time and efficiency, and heat output, is absolutely atrocious. I, for one, went incan, and will never go back.


----------



## Tempest UK

As attractive as some of the M6 rechargeable solutions seem, I don't think I'd ever buy or use one. Rechargeables make the M6 a completely different light in a way that doesn't appeal to me for general use. I don't use my M6s a great deal, or at least not enough to justify forking out for a rechargeable solution when the occasional cost of SF123a is still (to me) affordable. Also, again seeing as they're not used on a daily basis, I like knowing they're "ready to go" whenever I want them, regardless of how long they have spent sitting around. 

Plus, there's always the 10X for when I want M6 output without the cost of primaries :devil:

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Size15's

Tempest UK said:


> Pff, that's no M6, that's an M2
> 
> Is that the photo you meant Al? Or is there a photo of black M6 floating around, including a hard anodised Millennium TurboHead?
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


That was the photo I meant.
Back from the very early days before SureFire made a stab at a more logical model numbering system.


----------



## BSBG

ttran97 said:


> I had one of the LED towers for the M6, and I liked that it had long run time...over 5.5 hours! But the brightness and throw weren't enough for me to justify carrying a light that big around. The one I had was supposed to be around 250 lumen. I might as well just carry a 6P with a Malkoff for that amount of light.



I concur. I had a beautiful Arcmania original TM. It would run forever, but my Malkoff M60 in a 9P was just as bright and as long lasting, at half the weight.

Incan options rule in the M6, at least for now


----------



## Malcom

DM51 said:


> This time, you escape a ban – but you are warned that you will need to moderate your attitude and posting style quite radically, or your time here will be very brief.



Well, this time you are at least correct in that my time here will be very brief. I don't care to become part of a community that would allow you to have some degree of authority. You are far too immature or such a role.


----------



## Tempest UK

Size15's said:


> Back from the very early days before SureFire made a stab at a more logical model numbering system.



I had wondered about that  Also why the L6 and M6 aren't both 6-cell lights...

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Illum

Tempest UK said:


> I had wondered about that  Also why the L6 and M6 aren't both 6-cell lights...
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest



L6 on 6 cells? what do you want it to do...last forever?!:huh:


----------



## Size15's

Tempest UK said:


> I had wondered about that  Also why the L6 and M6 aren't both 6-cell lights...
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


Don't! I cried when I found out that SureFire were calling the L4, L5, L6 and L7.
I mean what was wrong with the E2L ,M2L, M3L, 8AXL (or perhaps 8LX) ??
(granted E2L has since been used but it wasn't at the time)


----------



## Tempest UK

Size15's said:


> Don't! I cried when I found out that SureFire were calling the L4, L5, L6 and L7.
> I mean what was wrong with the E2L ,M2L, M3L, 8AXL (or perhaps 8LX) ??
> (granted E2L has since been used but it wasn't at the time)



Agreed, or at least matching the numbers between the M and L series where possible, so L6 = L3, L5 = L2. Although I suppose then you'd still have gaps and need to come up with another system for the other models...

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## ttran97

All I know is that Al hates the way the KL6 looks on the M6 body. haha.


----------



## Illum

ttran97 said:


> All I know is that Al hates the way the KL6 looks on the M6 body. haha.



you should've heard him [or was it DM51 :thinking: ] when someone installed an M3 [not M3T] head on an M6:laughing:
yeah, I would agree it doesn't flow too well cosmetically


----------



## js

IMSabbel said:


> But its true. Theres nothing there to justify the price OR the fandom. Just a metal tube, a reflector and a plain mass production bulb.
> And a (after reading people complain here) seemingly notoriously failing switch.
> 
> Nothing really to justify that fandom. The mere fact that people can make a better light out of a 3D maglight with 1/3rd of the cost speaks volumes.



The SF M6 is not just a plain metal tube, a reflector, and a mass production bulb. That tubo head is a magnificent peice of engineering all in itself. It is, above all others, one of the most truly shock isolated housing for an incandescent filaments that you are likely to find in a production light. If you unscrew the head and remove the LA, you can see just how much isolation there is by moving the reflector around--down, left, right, top, bottom--it's got a lot of range, all nicely cushioned with shock absorbing foam. The lens is optically coated pyrex, and its a nice aluminum orange peel vacuum metalized reflector.

The lamp assembly is anything but "mass produced" if by that you mean thrown together in an assembly line or something. It is precisely potted for a well centered and focused beam, and the dual coil springs at the rear allow for the independent movement of the shock isolated reflector to continue while still permitting electrical contact to be made throughout.

You could take an M6 by the lanyard while it was running and whack someone upside the head with it and still not break the filament. You can drop it onto concrete while running and still not break the filament. It is very, very rugged _for an incandescent light_.

The switch? The switch is freaking amazingly rugged. It's not the clicky or the A2/L2/L1 switch that you might hear bad things about in terms of failure rates. No. This bad boy is pure function and solid metal. Let me tell you a story. I had my M6 on the floor right next to my bed. Too close to my bed as it turns out. I was lying on it and rolled over or something, and the bed leg near the M6 came off the riser-block it was on _and the entire weight of the bed with me on it slammed down RIGHT ONTO THE SWITCH BUTTON!!!_. I looked down and light was escaping from the scallops in the bezel. I was horrified. I got of the bed as quickly as I could, put it back up on the block, and examined my M6.

I couldn't find anything at all wrong with it. It functioned exactly as before. Now, I gotta say, that impressed me!

Moving on, we have HA throughout, Chem Kote throughout the interior for better conduction and long-term performance, and we have some non-standard machining on the outer body for grip. The LOTC is pretty impressive all by itself, and then there is the MB20 battery holder.

Perhaps you didn't know this, but the M6 battery holder is physically three parallel (i.e. side by side) stacks of two series (i.e. one on top of the other) CR123 batteries. But _electrically_ those are turned into two parallel stacks of three series CR123's. That means that wires run inside those risers and that there are circuit-boards at all three levels. It's no trivial matter to make that battery holder. Further, the damn thing has to carry FIVE AMPS. Go price out what it will cost you to have a holder made to those specs. It ain't cheap, as I can tell you from my own experience and from conversations with Ginseng and modamag. Notice that the springs in the MB20 are actually nice wide thick nickel coated spring-metal u-shaped pieces, and not the usual coil jobs. It's a well built battery holder. Perhaps the best I have ever seen, frankly, with apologies to Fivemega.

So, does that mean the M6 is "worth it"? Well, not for everyone. Maybe not even for most people. You certainly can make a Mag85 for 1/3 the cost, and that light will be brighter and will run longer, and will have a better CCT and will take much cheaper WA 1185 lamps. And honestly, that's great! Look, I'm all for choice. This isn't about a competition round between flashlights where we knock out those with the lower cost/value ratio or something. The thing is that the Mag85 isn't shock isolated. And it's bigger. And it uses rechargeables.

That may not be a problem for you. On the contrary, that may even be the main selling point. But for those who are in areas without power, a light that runs on CR123's is actually prefered.

I used to be a consultant for TigerLight. For many months I was a consultant for them. And one of the things they wanted me to work on was to come up with a _non-rechargeable_ TigerLight pack. I can't say anything specific due to NDA, but I think you can glean from this that part of their customer base must have wanted this 

And the M6 can be gripped over-hand, which is a better grip in many situations than the way you have to hold a Mag85. Also, a Mag85 is a tad bigger than the M6, and heavier.

Don't get me wrong! I love WA mods. Heck, I loved them so much, I made a bunch of them for the TigerLight. I was the first to do this, and as far as I know, I'm the only one still. So, don't make this into a competition between WA mods and SureFire, because it's not.

They're two very different lights, a Mag85 and a SF M6. And for _some_ people, the M6 makes sense. Heck, there are even people who maybe don't NEED one but who enjoy the feel and quality and size and weight of the light, and like knowing that they could drop the thing onto concrete and not break the filament.

Next?

Ah, yes, maxa beam . . .



maxa beam said:


> js said:
> 
> 
> 
> Incans still have their advantages, especially in foggy and rainy weather, and in areas with a lot of artificial ambient lighting, like parking lots, and especially in the size class of the M6 or larger, and at around the power level of the M6 in the sort of 10W to 35W range. Above that light output level, HID's rules. Below that, LED's. But in that range, incans still have a role to play, in my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their horrid efficiency, and terrible heat output outweigh any pluses in my opinion. And color tempurature is no excuse, I expect LEDs to have a color tempurature as good as incans or better. (I personally prefer light on the blue side, reddish light just isn't fetching in photography.
> 
> As LED efficiency and technology improves, you can expect them to take over the 30Wish range, too. HIDs will always have a place, though. (Unless LEDs surpass them, too, which they might. Data's Data Bank 70 is mighty impressive, and you can bet efficiency in LEDs will go up to around 250W in due time.)
Click to expand...


OK. First of all, I never said that incan efficiency beats LED or HID even within the power range I stated. However, they aren't so far behind there, and one of the main advantages they have is the one you claim is a disadvantage! The waste heat from an incan is mostly forward radiated as infra-red, and thus does not need to be heat sinked into the light. This is patently not the case with LED's! And when you increase die temperature, you decrease LED efficeincy. It's not that it can't be done. It can. But it's an issue.

Secondly, you neglected my point about better performance in foggy and rainy conditions. This better performance isn't due to color rendering (CRI). It's actually a consequence of the spectral output of the filament being shifted more towards the red. Blue wavelengths get scattered in fog, and thus actually end up lighting up the fog and getting diverted instead of actually penetrating through it and back again to your eyes like the red and yellow. This is why fog lights on cars are yellow and are incandescent.

Finally, I don't doubt that LED and HID are the illumination sources of the future, and I'm not arguing that even given the advantages I've outlined above that someone might reasonably decide those pluses don't outweight the minuses.

This isn't about the "Gospel" of incandescent and converting people!

It's about a toolbox that can conceivably contain as many lights and types of lights as you want. You could own an incandescent *AND* an LED light! (For example) LOL! Or maybe even *gasp* multiples of each type and an HID or two thrown in as well.

The point--what this IS about--is that those of us who do decide to invest in an M6 are not just simply stupid idiots who really want to waste $300 when we could get away with $100. I'd like to suggest that many of us are flashaholics who have been around the block a few times and that perhaps we have some valid reasons _for us_ and that it just isn't really wise to assume that we simply never realized that LED's were more efficient.


----------



## wquiles

Great reply js - well said :thumbsup:

Will


----------



## Patriot

Excellent dissection of the M6 attributes Js.. :thumbsup:

Thanks


----------



## cy

to me.. it's all about using the right tool for the job. 

LED's owns my EDC slot, Ti PD and Titan. Ti PD still uses a Luxeon. 

Two HID's hold down my bike light needs. HID storm on handlebars, ARC HID on helmet. 6+ hours runtime with amazing output! HID's does the job better than anything else available. 

Surefire M6 is my bump in the night light. when I go searching outside with gun & M6 in hand at 3 am.... can't think of any other tool regardless of price for this job.


----------



## greenLED

BSBG said:


> I concur. I had a beautiful Arcmania original TM. It would run forever, but my Malkoff M60 in a 9P was just as bright and as long lasting, at half the weight.
> 
> Incan options rule in the M6, at least for now



Thanks for the feedback on the LED options. You know moi, I'm an LED guy, so I must... If anything, 'cuz I can. 

That said, if it's really like js puts it "A2's big brother" (and I have no reason to doubt him), I'I think I'll be more than satisfied with the MN15.


----------



## Illum

go js! tell the world about it in a manner almost unreproducible by us amateurs:laughing:

honestly though...


js said:


> So, does that mean the M6 is "worth it"? Well, not for everyone. Maybe not even for most people. You certainly can make a Mag85 for 1/3 the cost, and that light will be brighter and will run longer, and will have a better CCT and will take much cheaper WA 1185 lamps. And honestly, that's great! Look, I'm all for choice. This isn't about a competition round between flashlights where we knock out those with the lower cost/value ratio or something. The thing is that the Mag85 isn't shock isolated. And it's bigger. And it uses rechargeables.



ROP, Mag11, Mag64, Mag85 all share the same beam shape with different intensities, but the truth of the matter is, mag heads aren't optimized for throw. the M6 is while allowing sufficient spill for most activities. its not too shallow to diffuse the beam, yet not deep enough to obstruct spill...its "just right" 
I'm sure other users here may agree that the turboheads makes the most beautiful beamshots for lights in the same class. That really isn't a coincidence that its a surefire:nana:


----------



## wquiles

cy said:


> Surefire M6 is my bump in the night light. when I go searching outside with gun & M6 in hand at 3 am.... can't think of any other tool regardless of price for this job.



Same for me- the M6's momentary button location, output, and ruggedness is perfect for this role 

Will


----------



## BMF

js said:


> Originally Posted by *IMSabbel*
> 
> 
> _But its true. Theres nothing there to justify the price OR the fandom. Just a metal tube, a reflector and a plain mass production bulb. _
> _And a (after reading people complain here) seemingly notoriously failing switch._
> 
> _Nothing really to justify that fandom. The mere fact that people can make a better light out of a 3D maglight with 1/3rd of the cost speaks volumes._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SF M6 is not just a plain metal tube, a reflector, and a mass production bulb. That tubo head is a magnificent peice of engineering all in itself. It is, above all others, one of the most truly shock isolated housing for an incandescent filaments that you are likely to find in a production light. If you unscrew the head and remove the LA, you can see just how much isolation there is by moving the reflector around--down, left, right, top, bottom--it's got a lot of range, all nicely cushioned with shock absorbing foam. The lens is optically coated pyrex, and its a nice aluminum orange peel vacuum metalized reflector.
> 
> The lamp assembly is anything but "mass produced" if by that you mean thrown together in an assembly line or something. It is precisely potted for a well centered and focused beam, and the dual coil springs at the rear allow for the independent movement of the shock isolated reflector to continue while still permitting electrical contact to be made throughout.
> 
> You could take an M6 by the lanyard while it was running and whack someone upside the head with it and still not break the filament. You can drop it onto concrete while running and still not break the filament. It is very, very rugged _for an incandescent light_.
> 
> The switch? The switch is freaking amazingly rugged. It's not the clicky or the A2/L2/L1 switch that you might hear bad things about in terms of failure rates. No. This bad boy is pure function and solid metal. Let me tell you a story. I had my M6 on the floor right next to my bed. Too close to my bed as it turns out. I was lying on it and rolled over or something, and the bed leg near the M6 came off the riser-block it was on _and the entire weight of the bed with me on it slammed down RIGHT ONTO THE SWITCH BUTTON!!!_. I looked down and light was escaping from the scallops in the bezel. I was horrified. I got of the bed as quickly as I could, put it back up on the block, and examined my M6.
> 
> I couldn't find anything at all wrong with it. It functioned exactly as before. Now, I gotta say, that impressed me!
> 
> Moving on, we have HA throughout, Chem Kote throughout the interior for better conduction and long-term performance, and we have some non-standard machining on the outer body for grip. The LOTC is pretty impressive all by itself, and then there is the MB20 battery holder.
> 
> Perhaps you didn't know this, but the M6 battery holder is physically three parallel (i.e. side by side) stacks of two series (i.e. one on top of the other) CR123 batteries. But _electrically_ those are turned into two parallel stacks of three series CR123's. That means that wires run inside those risers and that there are circuit-boards at all three levels. It's no trivial matter to make that battery holder. Further, the damn thing has to carry FIVE AMPS. Go price out what it will cost you to have a holder made to those specs. It ain't cheap, as I can tell you from my own experience and from conversations with Ginseng and modamag. Notice that the springs in the MB20 are actually nice wide thick nickel coated spring-metal u-shaped pieces, and not the usual coil jobs. It's a well built battery holder. Perhaps the best I have ever seen, frankly, with apologies to Fivemega.
> 
> So, does that mean the M6 is "worth it"? Well, not for everyone. Maybe not even for most people. You certainly can make a Mag85 for 1/3 the cost, and that light will be brighter and will run longer, and will have a better CCT and will take much cheaper WA 1185 lamps. And honestly, that's great! Look, I'm all for choice. This isn't about a competition round between flashlights where we knock out those with the lower cost/value ratio or something. The thing is that the Mag85 isn't shock isolated. And it's bigger. And it uses rechargeables.
> 
> That may not be a problem for you. On the contrary, that may even be the main selling point. But for those who are in areas without power, a light that runs on CR123's is actually prefered.
> 
> I used to be a consultant for TigerLight. For many months I was a consultant for them. And one of the things they wanted me to work on was to come up with a _non-rechargeable_ TigerLight pack. I can't say anything specific due to NDA, but I think you can glean from this that part of their customer base must have wanted this
> 
> And the M6 can be gripped over-hand, which is a better grip in many situations than the way you have to hold a Mag85. Also, a Mag85 is a tad bigger than the M6, and heavier.
> 
> Don't get me wrong! I love WA mods. Heck, I loved them so much, I made a bunch of them for the TigerLight. I was the first to do this, and as far as I know, I'm the only one still. So, don't make this into a competition between WA mods and SureFire, because it's not.
> 
> They're two very different lights, a Mag85 and a SF M6. And for _some_ people, the M6 makes sense. Heck, there are even people who maybe don't NEED one but who enjoy the feel and quality and size and weight of the light, and like knowing that they could drop the thing onto concrete and not break the filament.
> 
> Next?
> 
> Ah, yes, maxa beam . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *maxa beam*
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *js*
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _Incans still have their advantages, especially in foggy and rainy weather, and in areas with a lot of artificial ambient lighting, like parking lots, and especially in the size class of the M6 or larger, and at around the power level of the M6 in the sort of 10W to 35W range. Above that light output level, HID's rules. Below that, LED's. But in that range, incans still have a role to play, in my experience._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _Their horrid efficiency, and terrible heat output outweigh any pluses in my opinion. And color tempurature is no excuse, I expect LEDs to have a color tempurature as good as incans or better. (I personally prefer light on the blue side, reddish light just isn't fetching in photography._
> _As LED efficiency and technology improves, you can expect them to take over the 30Wish range, too. HIDs will always have a place, though. (Unless LEDs surpass them, too, which they might. Data's Data Bank 70 is mighty impressive, and you can bet efficiency in LEDs will go up to around 250W in due time.)_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK. First of all, I never said that incan efficiency beats LED or HID even within the power range I stated. However, they aren't so far behind there, and one of the main advantages they have is the one you claim is a disadvantage! The waste heat from an incan is mostly forward radiated as infra-red, and thus does not need to be heat sinked into the light. This is patently not the case with LED's! And when you increase die temperature, you decrease LED efficeincy. It's not that it can't be done. It can. But it's an issue.
> 
> Secondly, you neglected my point about better performance in foggy and rainy conditions. This better performance isn't due to color rendering (CRI). It's actually a consequence of the spectral output of the filament being shifted more towards the red. Blue wavelengths get scattered in fog, and thus actually end up lighting up the fog and getting diverted instead of actually penetrating through it and back again to your eyes like the red and yellow. This is why fog lights on cars are yellow and are incandescent.
> 
> Finally, I don't doubt that LED and HID are the illumination sources of the future, and I'm not arguing that even given the advantages I've outlined above that someone might reasonably decide those pluses don't outweight the minuses.
> 
> This isn't about the "Gospel" of incandescent and converting people!
> 
> It's about a toolbox that can conceivably contain as many lights and types of lights as you want. You could own an incandescent *AND* an LED light! (For example) LOL! Or maybe even *gasp* multiples of each type and an HID or two thrown in as well.
> 
> The point--what this IS about--is that those of us who do decide to invest in an M6 are not just simply stupid idiots who really want to waste $300 when we could get away with $100. I'd like to suggest that many of us are flashaholics who have been around the block a few times and that perhaps we have some valid reasons _for us_ and that it just isn't really wise to assume that we simply never realized that LED's were more efficient.
Click to expand...

 

What do you think you're doing js? Are you trying to make me broke? Excellent post! I really want to put the trigger but my budget is pretty tight now. Very tempting, may be the next M6?


----------



## js

greenLED said:


> Thanks for the feedback on the LED options. You know moi, I'm an LED guy, so I must... If anything, 'cuz I can.
> 
> That said, if it's really like js puts it "A2's big brother" (and I have no reason to doubt him), I'I think I'll be more than satisfied with the MN15.



I hope you will be! I love the MN15 in the M6. It's nicely overdriven and long running. If it's just about the beam and not runtime or cost of primaries or practicality, then my favorite incan beam of all time is the MN20, old or new, in the SF M6. I love that beam! As was mentioned above, the millennium turbo head has the perfect combination of throw and spill--in my opinion, anyway.

But anyway, if you decide the MN15 isn't for you, I'll be happy to buy it from you, greenLED, for the same price you paid for it. I only have one MN15 right now, and I really should have a spare.


----------



## js

Oh, and thanks for your kinds words wquiles, Patriot36, Illum the nation, and BMF!


----------



## paulr

Now you've made me want an M6. That's ok, I've always wanted one anyway .


----------



## EV_007

js speaks the truth. :candle:

I've amassed a collection of LEDs, however, I still love the warm, bright, broad light and the solid feel of the M6. Of all my lights, this one brings the biggest smile to my face when lighting up the night.


----------



## IcantC

For those who doubt, you have never used or handled the M6. I own a variety of lights, but it is very robust and bright. Brighter and better throwing than my ROP as well.


----------



## Illum

for the light output, I carry both the M6 and 2D ROP, backpack or cargo-pants

guess which is my loaner light?
[hint: most nonflashaholics wants to loosen the bezel or click a switch near the bezel:candle:]


----------



## curlyfry562

I have to admit after reading this thread it is very tempting to pick one of these up, but that little voice in the back of my head is saying "$300 for a flashlight that you will hardly ever use, and it an incan!" 

I know many of you guys on the forum own these, but I have seen very few beamshots or a comprehensive review, could you guys point me in the right direction? Thanks


----------



## BSBG

curlyfry562 said:


> I know many of you guys on the forum own these, but I have seen very few beamshots or a comprehensive review, could you guys point me in the right direction? Thanks



Click the link in EV_007's signature a few posts up for some great beam shots.

Here are a couple of links, there are lots more:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/166786

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/142517


----------



## EV_007

I just put up a quick video demo at the request of some of my friends and a family member showing off some of my SureFires. The M6 is shown at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zkAGQxs998

The E1E, E2E, Kroma, and U2 also shown against mini-mag for size reference.


----------



## batman

The M6 would saw through a Mag-85, then still be covered by warranty.


----------



## curlyfry562

I just bought an M6-CB for $295 on ebay. I am stoked and can't wait for it to arrive, :thanks: guys for contributing to my flashaholism 

John

P.S. Can I run it off of battery junctions "*Titanium" *batteries, because of there current limitations 

Link: http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpen-tcr123a-.html


----------



## Illum

curlyfry562 said:


> P.S. Can I run it off of battery junctions "*Titanium" *batteries, because of there current limitations
> 
> Link: http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpen-tcr123a-.html



Titanium batteries will undergo thermal shutdowns if you use the M6 continuously, and in addition the runtimes won't be as good as surefire
heres some test results from seery
*Surefire M6 / New Titanium 123's / Results / Not good *with pics and graphs**

note especially post 28 https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1331324&postcount=28


----------



## socom1970

curlyfry562 said:


> I just bought an M6-CB for $295 on ebay. I am stoked and can't wait for it to arrive, :thanks: guys for contributing to my flashaholism
> 
> John
> 
> P.S. Can I run it off of battery junctions "*Titanium" *batteries, because of there current limitations
> 
> Link: http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpen-tcr123a-.html



I run both of my M6's on Surefire cells only. I would recommend only using cells made in USA for the M6 for safety reasons. Using the M6 with the 500 lumen MN21 lamp pulls close to 5 amps which is a LOT of stress on the cells. The Titanium cells might be ok with the 250 lumen MN20, but you risk a lot if the cells can't handle the current draw. Good luck and enjoy your M6!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## batman

my honest opinion of the SF M6? It's a "_Photon Super-Nova."_


----------



## js

Duracell and SF batteries only, for me. It's not that there aren't some good competitors, performance-wise. It's that there are *NO* competitors quality-control-wise. One batch of Titanium's might be super-duper amazing, but the next batch might not be. Or worse yet, the super-duper performing ones might have high-self discharge and become junk after three months.

That's what happened to me. I bought 30 Titanium's and they all died on me just sitting around. Since then, I only use Duracell's or SF's. And preferably Duracell's.

As for current draw, the 5 amp draw of the MN21 is from two stacks of 123's. So each stack only needs to deliver 2.5 amps, which is just about the maxiumum you can pull from a CR123A battery.


----------



## curlyfry562

JS, thank you so much for recommending the Duracells, that will save a serious chuck of change. 



js said:


> Since then, I only use Duracell's or SF's. And preferably Duracell's.



Do you prefer Duracells, because of cost, or performance, or both?

Thanks,
John

P.S. Still waiting for M6


----------



## Patriot

Jim, have you found other brands like, Sanyo and Energizer to be lacking in performance also, or just the Titanium brand that you mentioned. 

I often purchase the Sanyo brand and occasionally get Energizer when they're on sale. I haven't had any negative experiences with any of those brands myself and the Sanyo's store well. They seem to give Surefire battery performance but I have zero experience with Duracells in the M6.

Thanks


----------



## ampdude

You know I've always thought the M6 was a very cool light. But it just seems to me that the battery changes would be a PITA. Especially in a tactical/mission critical type situation. Unless you bought extra pre-loaded battery carriers I guess.


----------



## Patriot

ampdude said:


> Unless you bought extra pre-loaded battery carriers I guess.




I completely agree. The batteries fit tightly inside of the holder too. An extra holder would be important if a life was on the line.


----------



## ttran97

Patriot36 said:


> I completely agree. The batteries fit tightly inside of the holder too. An extra holder would be important if a life was on the line.



Or use one of your other M6's....


----------



## Patriot

ttran97 said:


> Or use one of your other M6's....




there I go thinking inside the box again....lol. :laughing:


----------



## curlyfry562

ttran97 said:


> Or use one of your other M6's....



So that is why you guys own so many of them. :laughing:

Still waiting for M6 , it is killing me


----------



## Monocrom

curlyfry562 said:


> Still waiting for M6 , it is killing me


 
I got mine the same day, from a nearby B&M shop. Even saved $50 off the retail price. :twothumbs


----------



## js

Patriot36 said:


> Jim, have you found other brands like, Sanyo and Energizer to be lacking in performance also, or just the Titanium brand that you mentioned.
> 
> I often purchase the Sanyo brand and occasionally get Energizer when they're on sale. I haven't had any negative experiences with any of those brands myself and the Sanyo's store well. They seem to give Surefire battery performance but I have zero experience with Duracells in the M6.
> 
> Thanks



I suspect that the Sanyo's and Energizers are good quality and good performers as well. If you can get them for cheap, they'd be a good buy in my opinion. But I have no direct experience with them. Given the choice, I'd go for the Duracells. SilverFox turned me on to them. He said that Newbies investigations showed that they were the only CR123A that was significantly better built than any of the others. And SilverFox's tests show the Duracells to be near the top of the heap, performance-wise. And my own experience with them has been nothing but positive. I used to by SF cells, but when they upped the price, I decided to look into other options.

Curlyfry,

I prefer the Duracell's for performance and reliability. Cost isn't an issue for me, but they can be had pretty cheaply in bulk from online stores.


----------



## Patriot

Id be willing to give the Duracells a try Js. If you and Silverfox speak highly of them, that's good enough and them some, for me. Have you found that there is one place that's best to purchase them through?




If anyone is interested in a M6 that's labeled "MAGNUMLIGHT" there is one for sale here: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2166892#post2166892


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## js

Patriot36, I buy my Duracells at www.cheapbatteries.com.


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## Daniel_sk

My opinion on SF M6? It was too hard to resist, I have just bought one . This is going to be a long wait... I am not going to run it on primaries though (only in emergencies). I am thinking about a 2x18650 + WA1111 option (unfortunately mdocod's adapter doesn't exist yet) or similar (those li-ions are cheap, I can take more for backup).


----------



## js

Daniel_sk,

Don't forget that you can use the LF HO-M6R lamp with RCR123A li-ion rechargeable's in the battery holder. Or you can also use the MN60 or MN61. No adaptor needed and all parts are available now.

Then there's the MN15 X-LOLA option, of course, but that's for primaries, though. Still, the MN15 runs for 2.5 hours on 6 123's and delivers 200 lumens. Not bad, really. It's how I have my M6 configured right now in fact.


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## Daniel_sk

Thank you for your advice. I was thinking about the HO-M6R bulb - but 6 rechargeable cells mean a lot cells to recharge/to keep them in balance and more parts to fail (6 protection circuits.. etc). It's less bright than the WA1111 option and more expensive to have backup batteries (I'd have to buy them by six). But runtime is good and bulb life is very good.

I have the FM bi-pin adapter on the way. My only concern is that the WA1111 might be less durable than the original SF bulbs. And a bulb explosion wouldn't be covered by the SF warranty.

I'll do some research on the MN60 / MN61 option. 

I have read your thread on the X-LOLA option - and I think it's a very good option but I couldn't fully enjoy the light knowing I am still burning 6 cells/2.5 hours (mostly a question of money for me but also effectiveness).


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## Monocrom

Daniel_sk said:


> I'll do some research on the MN60 / MN61 option.


 
Those are the LOLA and HOLA specifically designed by Surefire for use in the M4. 

225 / 350 Lumens, respectively. 

But considering the increased runtime, an MN15 is a good investment. 

The LF option is a good one. Output in the middle of the MN60 and MN61. The 6 RCR123 will pay for themselves if your M6 sees regular use. (I recommend AW RCR123 cells). You could get three Ultrafire WF-138 chargers to speed up charging time of the 6 cells. Obviously, don't hook them up to the same plug. The initial investment might seem expensive, but worth it in the long run if your M6 sees much use.


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## js

Monocrom said:


> Those are the LOLA and HOLA specifically designed by Surefire for use in the M6.
> 
> 250 / 500 Lumens, respectively.
> 
> But considering the increased runtime, an MN15 at only 50 lumens less than the MN60 is a good investment.
> 
> The LF option is a good one. Output in the middle of the MN60 and MN61. The 6 RCR123 will pay for themselves if your M6 sees regular use. (I recommend AW RCR123 cells). You could get three Ultrafire WF-138 chargers to speed up charging time of the 6 cells. Obviously, don't hook them up to the same plug. The initial investment might seem expensive, but worth it in the long run if your M6 sees much use.



Monocrom,

Good post!

But, just to be clear, I'm pretty sure you meant to say "specifically designed by SureFire for use in the *M4*."

As for output, the MN60 on R123's in the MB20 M6 battery holder would be a _lot_ brighter than the MN15 run on primaries. More like 100 lumens brighter I would guess, if not 200 lumens.


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## Monocrom

js said:


> Monocrom,
> 
> Good post!
> 
> But, just to be clear, I'm pretty sure you meant to say "specifically designed by SureFire for use in the *M4*."
> 
> As for output, the MN60 on R123's in the MB20 M6 battery holder would be a _lot_ brighter than the MN15 run on primaries. More like 100 lumens brighter I would guess, if not 200 lumens.


 
Darn typos! 

Thanks for the correction js. That's one for you there.


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## Patriot

js said:


> Patriot36, I buy my Duracells at www.cheapbatteries.com.




Thanks Js. It looks like they're just under $2.00 each. I guess I'll give them a try.


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## curlyfry562

Wow, much small than I expected. The groves in the body are not only beautiful, but incredibly practical, affording me an amazing grip on the light.

Now I understand why all of you rant and rave about this light, it truly is spectacular, I can't wait to take it out to the desert.

JS
Thanks for the advise on the batteries I found a great price at BJ and bought 50 for $1.45 each, you can't beat that.
http://www.batteryjunction.com/duracell-cr123a-50qty.html


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## ttran97

curlyfry562 said:


> Wow, much small than I expected. The groves in the body are not only beautiful, but incredibly practical, affording me an amazing grip on the light.
> 
> Now I understand why all of you rant and rave about this light, it truly is spectacular, I can't wait to take it out to the desert.
> 
> JS
> Thanks for the advise on the batteries I found a great price at BJ and bought 50 for $1.45 each, you can't beat that.
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/duracell-cr123a-50qty.html



Welcome to the M6 Club!  It's truly a work of art. I love the design and it has a healthy weight to it, yet feels very well balanced. Let us know when you pick up another one! :naughty: :thumbsup:


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## Patriot

ttrans97, 

What's the serial# on your "Millennium Series M6?"

Thanks.


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## ttran97

Patriot36 said:


> ttrans97,
> 
> What's the serial# on your "Millennium Series M6?"
> 
> Thanks.



A006367


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## curlyfry562

Who needs rechargables?







I love my M6


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## ttran97

Very nice, curlyfry! You should get one of those foam things for the pelican cases that let you stand up the CR123 in neat rows. Lighthound has some.

I don't use any rechargeables in my M6's...just Surefire CR123 primaries. My thinking is this...it would be like putting unleaded gas into a nice sports car. hehe.

Actually, the real reason I'm not using my 3x17670 holder is because I haven't gotten around to ordering 17670s.


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## Illum

ttran97 said:


> Actually, the real reason I'm not using my 3x17670 holder is because I haven't gotten around to ordering 17670s.



yeah I'm procrastinating on the beamshaper too :nana:


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## Patriot

ttran97 said:


> I don't use any rechargeables in my M6's...just Surefire CR123 primaries. My thinking is this...it would be like putting unleaded gas into a nice sports car. hehe.




More like nitromethane 

That said, nitromethane works great with the 1185 and LF HO-M6R. One of the Guardians that I mentioned is set-up this way. I think you would enjoy it Tung. 


These work well and the price is reasonable. 
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1302


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## Patriot

js said:


> Patriot36, I buy my Duracells at www.cheapbatteries.com.




Js, these are less than the ones at cheapbatteries:
http://www.botachtactical.com/du1236.html

If you use coupon code *father* for an additional 10% off that price. I just ordered 54 of them.


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## ttran97

Illum_the_nation said:


> yeah I'm procrastinating on the beamshaper too :nana:



haha...yeah, seriously. But _your_ procrastination might end up in a loud gasp followed by a deafening crashing sound of aluminum on tile/concrete....followed by an eerie silence.


Patriot...Thanks for the tip. I like the AW protected batteries. It's not the cost of the batteries holding me back...I dunno. It's just laziness, I guess. haha. Maybe it's because I don't even use my M6's and I have so many other lights to play with for now.


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## Illum

ttran97 said:


> haha...yeah, seriously. But _your_ procrastination might end up in a loud gasp followed by a deafening crashing sound of aluminum on tile/concrete....followed by an eerie silence.



you gotta love pelican cases:nana:
My M6 is actually gutted and in storage while I'm using my Mag64 [WA1164+8 Eneloops] for most applications. I'm sick of having to use it in public, then have someone wanting to handle it...then having it come back oily:green:


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## ttran97

Illum_the_nation said:


> then having it come back oily:green:



What the... 

Your friends need to wash their hands, dude. haha.


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## Illum

ttran97 said:


> What the...
> 
> Your friends need to wash their hands, dude. haha.



either lotion or grease or...whatever it is I wont want it on my M6, if it can pop zits on me I don't want to know what it might do to the anodizing:candle:


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## Patriot

Illum_the_nation said:


> then have someone wanting to handle it...then having it come back oily:green:





LOL!! Oh my gosh......that's awful man...haha. A lanyard around the neck would probably dissuade others from being touchy feeling. It would bring them too close to your bubble and they'd probably be happy to let you demonstrate. 

.....I'm still laughing at your beloved M6 coming back oily...lol.


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## curlyfry562

Hey guys I was trying out my low output bulb with my M6 tonight and the beam is rectangular is shape. Is that normal?


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## ttran97

curlyfry562 said:


> Hey guys I was trying out my low output bulb with my M6 tonight and the beam is rectangular is shape. Is that normal?



Mine is kind of a squished oval shaped. Kind of annoying, but if you turn the bulb and try to figure out the best angle for you, it should be ok. I have mine so that it's mostly horizontal.


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## Patriot

curlyfry562 said:


> Hey guys I was trying out my low output bulb with my M6 tonight and the beam is rectangular is shape. Is that normal?



It's very normal for a perfect MN20 due to the filament shape but is made worse if the bulb is seated crookedly into the socket at assembly. There's nothing that you can do about it though. I've sent a couple of really crooked ones back to Surefire and they replaced them. The really crooked ones tend to form a fat tear drop shape.


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## adamlau

Patriot36 said:


> ...hese are less than the ones at cheapbatteries...


Excellent find, Pat36. Did not realize that Duracell Ultra and the Energizer EL123 equivalent were of LiMnO2.


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## js

Patriot36 said:


> Js, these are less than the ones at cheapbatteries:
> http://www.botachtactical.com/du1236.html
> 
> If you use coupon code *father* for an additional 10% off that price. I just ordered 54 of them.



I ordered from botach tactical once . . . and I'll never do it again. I wish you luck and a smooth interaction.


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## Illum

care to tell [via PM if deemed inappropriate here] what happened?

Okay nevermind, on search it slapped a whole list of jeers
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/search.php?searchid=421491


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## seery

Patriot36 said:


> Js, these are less than the ones at cheapbatteries:
> http://www.botachtactical.com/du1236.html
> 
> If you use coupon code *father* for an additional 10% off that price. I just ordered 54 of them.


A friend needs 100 cells and since I just sold the last of my available SF123's, I phoned Botach on Friday and was told they have been out of Duracells for quite some time, recently ran out of Energizer, and have been shipping Rayovacs on these orders.

Just curious if you called or made a web order?


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## Patriot

seery said:


> A friend needs 100 cells and since I just sold the last of my available SF123's, I phoned Botach on Friday and was told they have been out of Duracells for quite some time, recently ran out of Energizer, and have been shipping Rayovacs on these orders.
> 
> Just curious if you called or made a web order?



I made a web order. I hope they didn't ship Rayovacs at the Duracell price. They're going to get an ear full if that's the case. 

Well, I just looked at my confirmation and it states "Duracell." I ordered them June 12.


P.S. I just noticed your earlier post Js. I haven't ordered from them in a while but I've had a total of 5-7 transactions with them over the past 5 years without any trouble. I've read jeers about them here before though.


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## js

Patriot36,

Some people have good luck with Botach, no question! And their prices can't be beat. So, as usual, each person has to weigh the pros and cons and decide for him- or herself.


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## Patriot

I had the camera out so I figured I better participate with a picture.







From left, M6/3 w/Milkly modded KL6, MN15 w/primaries, M6/3 with LF EO-M3 w/primaries (my whitest), M6 WA1185 3x17670. There is a fifth, (not pictured) not in my possession but it's using the HO-M6R. A friend was supposed to purchase it but hasn't paid yet. 

I don't really have a favorite but I do carry the M6/3 EO-M3 the most often because of its size and beam quality. It's a tiny bit brighter and whiter than the MN15.

To the M6/3 haters (DM51 and Size15s)...don't worry. I still have all the original heads..all three types.


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## ttran97

Very nice collection, Patriot! Only one M6 inscription missing...   :devil:


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## Illum

YUK! 














beamshots! I DEMAND beamshots!


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## Patriot

ttran97 said:


> Very nice collection, Patriot! Only one M6 inscription missing...   :devil:



Rub it in........



Illum the nation doesn't like my light sabers either...:candle:

C'mon brother, don't knock it till ya try it.. It sure makes the M6 carry-able.


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## Team Member

I know that you want one of these Illum


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## adamlau

The M3 head on the M6 reminds me of a pickle, or something.


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## DM51

There is something deeply and horribly WRONG about those FrankM6s.


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## JNewell

DM51 said:


> There is something deeply and horribly WRONG about those FrankM6s.


 
On the contrary, isn't that part of the beauty of the M6 platform - its flexibility???


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## DM51

JNewell said:


> On the contrary, isn't that part of the beauty of the M6 platform - its flexibility???


 Fluorescent purple lurex underwear with vermillion stripes is probably fairly flexible too, for all I know, but that doesn't necessarily mean it looks good or that I would want it anywhere near me. But let's not discuss Pat36's underwear here, lol.


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## kelmo

I can't believe this, I own an M6 and you guys make me feel inadequate!

I finally got to use mine in dark wide open spaces. I took it camping. The MN21 LA is pure bliss. I did however use the MN15 LA most of the time...


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## Daniel_sk

I have just received my first M6, I can't believe how could I have lived without it for so long .
(WA1111 + FM bipin adapter ready, just waiting for mdocod to manufacture the 2x18650 li-ion holder = guilty free ~MN21 output for ~35 minutes)


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## Illum

Patriot36 said:


> Illum the nation doesn't like my light sabers either...:candle:.



Its not that I'm opposed of it, its the fact that all this M6/3 is forcing me to look for M3s on the BST:shakehead

I DONT HAVE AN M3 BEZEL.... @#$%!! :mecry:


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## Size15's

Well I have to say that the current M3 bezel looks better on the M6 body than the one with cooling fins did.
(That said, I prefer the M3 with the cooling fins bezel for looks)


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## Patriot

adamlau said:


> The M3 head on the M6 reminds me of a pickle, or something.



Funny you should mention that. It's tastes like a pickle too. 



> *DM51*
> There is something deeply and horribly WRONG about those FrankM6s.


See...he thinks my M6/3s are 




> *DM51*
> Fluorescent purple lurex underwear with vermillion stripes is probably fairly flexible too, for all I know, but that doesn't necessarily mean it looks good or that I would want it anywhere near me. But let's not discuss Pat36's underwear here, lol.


But makes fun of my underwear instead. I'm still trying to figure out how he knew what kind I wear. Maybe a reflector picture gave it away. 




> *Illum the nation*
> Its not that I'm opposed of it, its the fact that all this M6/3 is forcing me to look for M3s on the BST:shakehead
> 
> I DONT HAVE AN M3 BEZEL.... @#$%!! :mecry:


You'll have to start doing like me an buying the whole M3. You can probably guess that I have several Turbo head M3 now.



> *Size15's*
> Well I have to say that the current M3 bezel looks better on the M6 body than the one with cooling fins did.
> (That said, I prefer the M3 with the cooling fins bezel for looks)


:wave:






Seriously though. I also like the old finned M3. That and the KL2. I've always liked them both.


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## ttran97

Speaking of M3 bezels...

How about slapping this monster on an M6? Hmm...


----------



## Patriot

Yeah, Yeah...I saw it over there. It would make a great M6/3 but it's to much coin for me. Also, I'd probably have to grow fond of skulls...which is unlikely. RPM's bezel looks great on there btw!


----------



## DM51

Patriot36 said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how he knew what kind I wear. Maybe a reflector picture gave it away.


It made a _brief_ appearance in one of your _bum_shots.


----------



## Patriot

Just an update on the batteries from Botach....

They ended up shipping me Energizer instead of the Duracell. They never called me or sent me and email, they just shipped the Energizers...hmm. I guess I wasn't too surprised when Seery called and they were out of them. 

Oh well, I know these are pretty good cells too so I guess I'll keep them.


----------



## Illum

you can't really go wrong with either Duracell or energizer on lithiums. I have ran all Duracell in the MB20 before and didn't notice any dramatic increase or decrease in runtime [MN20-wise], dunno about energizers....that I'll have to ask seery, he has multiple M6s to wErk with


----------



## Tempest UK

The current M6 family:






And with a few of their M Series friends:






Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Solscud007

tempest, you really have a problem haha.


Just out of curiosity for those using the R123 and the LF M6R. How are you charging 6 batteries? do they take turns in pairs? or do you have three chargers running simultaneously?


----------



## greenLED

Y'all ever had current leaking problems in your M6's? I just pulled mine out of storage and realized the batts are depleted. 

The battery magazine's been in there for over a year, but the light's been locked out and not used. Current leakage, or my set of Vartas going  on their own?


----------



## Hoghead

greenLED said:


> Y'all ever had current leaking problems in your M6's?


 
No, I've had two M6's for some time and I've never had any problems with current leaking or any unexplained dead batteries.


----------



## Tempest UK

Hoghead said:


> No, I've had two M6's for some time and I've never had any problems with current leaking or any unexplained dead batteries.



Me neither. I've gone to use M6s that have been sitting untouched for _months_ and they've always come on just as bright as they should. 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Sigman

Closing this one & continuing here...


----------



## JNewell

No, but I've had exactly that problem with a C2 that was locked out and should not have been able to drain the batts...



greenLED said:


> Y'all ever had current leaking problems in your M6's? I just pulled mine out of storage and realized the batts are depleted.
> 
> The battery magazine's been in there for over a year, but the light's been locked out and not used. Current leakage, or my set of Vartas going  on their own?


----------

