# Lacrosse BC-900 & Eneloop AA: Help in recharging, please



## DualMonitors (Apr 12, 2009)

Dear All:

I'm a relative newbie to this current "latest" crop of fancy chargers and Eneloops (my last recharger was something like a Maha 204 or 401 or something like that years ago).

I purchased the Lacrosse BC-900 around October 2008 and have essentially not used it since trying it out on "day 1". I charged up the "given as a package deal" Lacrosse-branded AA's (8 of them). 

I have recently bought a fancier flash unit for my camera (it's a Nikon-brand flash unit) and it is the best flash i've purchased to-date. I want to be certain that i'm feeding it properly with the best power i have, so i'm going to use either the Eneloops or the higher mA-rated Lacrosse.

Being not experienced at this at all, may i kindly ask for advice in how best to use the Lacrosse BC-900 for charging my Eneloop AA's? I was barely able to learn the nuances of using it initially to "test" the unit but was coached via numerous Instant Messages by an experienced fellow. It was rather complicated as one would have to push 2 buttons down at the same time, be certain to insert all 4 AA's fast and before a certain number seconds, otherwise, the allowable time period for such insertion would "expired" and one would have to re-initiate the entire process again.

I would appreciate it if I may ask for:

- proper mAH charging rate for Eneloop AA's. (i need 4 AA's each battery change for my flash unit for my camera), and i have around 16 Eneloop AA's (some from the Costco deal but i haven't even opened up the package from Costco yet).

- tips or "tricks" learned by the good experienced folks here on this forum

- guidelines to follow, caveats, warnings...etc. Especially since some have talked extensively about the overheating!

btw, i have firmware version 35, so i've been told. Don't know how to verify that, but i did purchase it directly from Thomas in 10/2008, so it's reasonably recent.

lastly, what advantages of the BC-9009 have over the BC-900? it is not obvious at all from the Lacrosse website! 

Thanks very much in advance. Much appreciated!


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## tabetha (Apr 12, 2009)

Hi,
I have the Technoline BC 900, which is the same as the La Crosse.
To get the best from the batteries, consider if they have been charged/discharged more than say 10 times, or never fully discharged.
If they are never fully discharged they will hold a memory, and you lose the portion of unused capacity, all is not lost however.
the charger is a fantastic bit of kit, beleive it to be usa in origin, but over here(uk) known as technoline.
If you just remember a few things it is a lot easier, although the current needs setting(if you want to change from default 200ma) there is plenty of time, insert ONE battery into the left slot, press button one until display flashes, now adjust either ma, or mode, if they have never been fully discharged I would do a discharge/refresh mode on all four, set one at a time going in this mode, this will charge/discharge up to 20 times OR until there is no further improvement.
I recently did this on a set of Ansmann NIMH,(whose own charger was rubbish) they were rated at 2600mah, but after charge/test were all around 400mah.
Long story short went on refresh mode, all now around 2400mah !!
Heat I have found is the killer, so unless needed, just use default setting of 200ma.
I have around 150 AA NIMH, as into models, and around 30-40 AAA NIMH, did away with NICD years ago.
I did find on another charger to actually read the charge rate on the battery as have had two explode, my fault for putting 3 amps through them when max was stated at 600mah!!
If the batteries are going to be stood for a long time unused start buying HYBRIO, as they have a massively better retained charge after extended storage.

tabetha


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## DualMonitors (Apr 13, 2009)

Thx for your comment/advice.

May I ask if the good, experienced folks here on this forum might chime in as well, and kindly advise as to what current is "best" for my brand new, fresh Eneloops? 

I somehow find my Lacrosse rather complicated/difficult to use. Sigh.


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## VidPro (Apr 13, 2009)

uhh its a bit complex , more than it needs to be mabey.

i can tell you what i do: AAs
to set ALL the bays of the charger the same way , even if you dont insert the batteries fast enough to make the timeout, just disconnect the thing, plug in all the batteries, then connect it, let it finish booting, and make the changes.
the 8 seconds is all about the charger Waiting for you to finish insertion, prior to just going on and charging it via the default settings. it is giving you enough time to start making changes, before just charging at default.


to achieve a great termination of the cells, via V-drop, use 750ma and 1000ma setting, myself i dont ever run any higher than that , using just 2 bays you can do a really fast charge. 
it will terminate properly usually at 500ma,but not always. At 200ma, it is actually slow enough to not be an overcharge rate for real enloop 2000s , so . . . so it just got more complex didnt it 

the charger is always charging (4 cells) at 1000ma , but it pulses to control the current that goes in to get to the lower currents, so really it is always going at 1000ma charge anyway, but at 500ma it is doing a 50% on 50%off type of cycle.

to refresh a battery, i just run it on TEST, this charges, discharges (for the test) then recharges it back up. It then tells me about where the battery stands in capacity, and has done one full cycle of the battery. I wont use the cyclic refresh because after about 3times around it starts getting excessive cycles for the extra 10ma. the continual refresh mode WOULD be good for some long unused batteries to attempt to recover them, if your batteries are in normal use your just wasting cycles to do that. 

i wont try and set one battery different than the other, so i dont use the individual bay controls ever, i would probably make an error doing that, and then i would have to remember which one i set how, and its easier to just charge a Quad or a pair of the same type, size, style, then i have a quick comparison of similars. Of course like many chargers one bay may show slightly different readings than another, so similar within its capacity to do so.

mine the computer in it locked up, and when it froze up, it froze with the power going to the batteries in full force (1000ma) and destroyed a set of 4 nice enloops. so i no longer trust it, as far as i can throw it. it is an old 32.
It has thermal protection should a cell get to hot it will stop for a while, it has a max voltage of about 2V, it terminates normally when the battery is overcharged and v-drops, it will terminate on "time" sort of when it has put an excessive charge on the battery and assumes that something has gone wrong because of the total current it has pushed in. it wont do any of that if the computer locks up  i found that out


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## Niconical (Apr 13, 2009)

For AA eneloops, anywhere between 1000ma and 2000ma is generally recommended. 

Personally I use 2000ma (on a Maha C9000). 

Not because I actually know anything, but because *Silverfox* (CPF battery expert) says he does, and that's good enough for me 

EDIT: Also, do some cycles first. The simplest way would be to insert 4 batteries, then connect to the power. 
Press and hold "mode", then when it starts blinking, quick-press mode again a couple of times to get to "test". 
Select your charge current, then let it get on with it. 
This will charge them, then fully discharge, then charge again. 
Doing this at least a couple of times is a good break in for the batteries, you can then use/recharge as normal.


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## tabetha (Apr 13, 2009)

The exploding/melting charger problem has been known for years, is it solved on the most up to date ones ?, does anybody know definitively ?
Thanks.
tabetha


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## hoarybat (Apr 13, 2009)

Tab, you responded to my most recent BC-900 near meltdown issue. My near meltdown proves that it is and was not solely a low charge rate which causes meltdowns although many/most of them were from what I understand and the 200 default charge rate. This was for the older chargers. Maybe things have been rectified in the last two years dunno. I have not noticed a difference in default 200 vs 700-1000 charge rates and longevity/capicity. I have and use Eneloops (lovem) and since this charger can go to 1800 and other chargers 2000 and above (maha) I think 700-1000 is a good compromise rate. I have older firmware V33 thanks for mentioning 35. To find out your firmware level you merely plug the charger in and it instantly displays (for a second or two) the firmware level in Bay 4 LCD. So in summary as the other poster suggested of which I concurr, occasional use of Test mode and charge rates of 700-1000 are seemingly fine for Eneloops and many of these batts likely. Because of my near meltdown, I have a new BC-900 on order which may end up being a bc-9000 shipped we'll see. Unfortunately, they're purportedly the same charger with no difference other than color. I will post my firmware level when it arrives. On that note LaCrosse numerous times over the last few years has stated the firmware # represents the manufacturing time/frame and has nothing to do with a software/fimrware upgrade or change. Others believe it does. So I am still confused over that one. :huh:


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## Elliot (Apr 13, 2009)

1) place all four batteries into the BC-900.
2) attach power cord to BC-900.
3) wait a few seconds while it powers up and shows voltage for each battery.
4) you have 8 seconds press the Current button a few times to get to 1000ma.
Now you're in the charging mode at 1000ma per battery. You have all day to change modes if you wish (discharge, test, etc.) 

I place mine on a tile surface with a little something to raise the front (LED) side off the tile for better air flow.

PS: the LaCrosse batteries were not total crap but not the best either.


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## Marduke (Apr 13, 2009)

For Eneloops, they should not need a test cycle or broken in. Just charge at 700mA or 1000mA and go. Just insert, hold current key and cycle to 700 or 1000, and leave it alone until they are done.

When cells are inserted, you just have to hold down the mode button so it changes modes before the timeout. Once you are changing settings, you have all day to keep changing them. The timeout is based off the time since the last key pressed.

So in other words, you don't have to get EVERYTHING programmed and done within the first 8 seconds, you just have to START programming within the timeout.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 13, 2009)

Thx all for the comments/suggestions.

I'm always a nervous wreck using this device. I keep thinking that I ought to have purchased a simpler-to-use device, i.e. one that doesn't that the silly "8-second or you can't do anything" rule. It always makes me feel like this is a machine to test my dexterity or sharpness of my brain.

That said, I read and re-read the suggestions here, plus read the manual. This is what I just did and please tell me if i did anything wrong!! This is my very first charging of my very first set of Eneloops! Virgin.

Plugged the BC-900 transformer into a power strip. Plugged the round power supply into the BC-900 itself. The display under #4 says "35", even though the Manual said that the version will be displayed first, yet, i have no idea what goobledygook those things displayed under bay 1, 2, 3 meant. I only know that they didn't say 33 or 35, and i know i ought to have firmware version 33 or 35. right?

then, it all said "null". fine so far. whew. 

i then, with _great dexterity and rapidity_, inserted my 4 AA Eneloops (virgin charge! never used Eneloops before! feel so very luxurious! fancy! :thumbsup and, immediately after all 4 AA's are inserted, i pressed Mode button and KEPT it pressed down for over 1 second, in order to achieve the "toggle" between the various modes part of the Mode selector.

Thinking that these are my very first Eneloops, it would be sweet to know where i stand. So i opted for the TEST mode. I pressed the Mode button several times until i see: "CHARGE TEST" on ALL 4 displays.

I then frantically pressed the Current button, which was showing 200mA. I pressed it several times till it went to 700mA. I figure that since these are 2000mA Eneloops, i was thinking that i'd use either 700mA or 1000mA. Being the uber cautious type, I thought that there would be little downside to selecting 700mA, other than taking longer to both discharge and recharge, but it ought to be more gentle to my brand spanking new first-ever set of Eneloops, am I on the right track?

So now, I'm on 700mA, TEST mode, all 4 AA Eneloops inserted.

My rudimentary calculations show that it discharges only at 1/2 the selected charging rate, so it is now charging at 700mA but will only discharge at 350mA. FIRST, meaning right now (only minutes after insertion of the AA's and commencement of the TEST mode), this ought to be charging the batteries to FULL first, right? And only then, AFTER the Eneloops are FULLY charged (from being fresh out of the package), THEN it would start to discharge, right? I'd expect the charging time from fresh out of the package to full charge to be minimal. is the correct?

Let's say that the batteries fresh out of the package is 3/4 charged, that would be around 1500mA. the remaining 500mA would take less than one hour at the selected 700mA rate. Right? After being fully charged, I assume that being in the Test Mode, the BC-900 would *automatically* know to go straight to DISCHARGE, right? And it would take a very long time to discharge, since it would take 2000mA / 350mA = 6+ Hours, right to fully discharge? (350mA being half of the selected 700m) And ONLY after it being fully discharged, would it then *automatically* go back to the Charge mode, and at 700mA, start to charge from exhausted (near 0mA) back up to as close to 2000mA as it can. 

is my understanding correct?

wouldn't that mean 3 hours of charging from 0mA to 2000mA?

adding the entire process up:

1 hour to go from fresh out of the box to fully charged
6 hours to go from fully charged 2000mA to fully discharged (350mA discharge rate)
3 hours to go from fully discharged to fully charged (700mA charging rate)

TOTAL TIME REQUIRED FOR THIS "TEST" mode fully cycle: 10 hours approximately.

May I kindly ask if my understanding is correct?

Thank you so much! Looking forward to hearing y'all. :sweat:


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## Marduke (Apr 13, 2009)

That is entirely correct. 

Eneloops have a bit more than 2000mAh, so the time will probably bit somewhat longer than your estimates.

But you don't need to hurry so much. As soon as you change any setting from default, it resets the timer. As long as you keep pressing buttons, you won't run out of time. You don't have to get ALL programming done within 8 seconds, just press _something _every 8 seconds while programming.

You could take 20 minutes to program if you really wanted, as long as you kept flipping through the options.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 13, 2009)

Thx for your reply.

With all the talk and postings about BC-900 melting, ruining fresh sets of Eneloops, etc, I'm wary of leaving it doing "its thing" all night long while i'm sleeping!

10 hours is a very long time. i just started this around an hour ago, that was 7:45pm. if my educated estimates were to be correct, we'd be looking at roughly 5am or 6am in the morning for this process to be complete.

i'm hoping that i'd be seeing the various steps "happening". i.e. if the "charging from fresh out of the package to full" period is merely an hour or two, i ought to be able to see *something *by now, right? i mean, should the display say _something _to indicate that "hey, i'd done with topping up the fresh out-of-the-package Eneloops now, and now, i'm proceeding to the *next* phase, i'll commence discharging..."?

That would add a wee bit of confidence to my shakiness.

Plus, several hours later, when the batteries have FULLY discharged, shouldn't the display say: "hey, i'm now even done with this discharge phase, and i'm proceeding onward to the next phase: i'm recharging the Eneloops from 0mA to 2000mA"?

what would i really see on the display? :shrug:


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 13, 2009)

Test mode it will charge and will say charge, net it will discharge and show discharge and show mAh for each cell then it will charge and show charge.

There is no wait time between functions and the cells will finish each section at different times.

If you want to break the cycles down to shorter time frames then just charge them and then remove from charger. Next step place in charger and set to discharge. it will discharge them then recharge them.


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## Marduke (Apr 13, 2009)

The display should currently read:



> Charge
> 
> Test


When it's done with the top off, it will read



> Discharge
> 
> Test



As soon as it's done discharging, it will display the discharged capacity.

You can cycle the display by pressing "display" to show time, voltage, current, capacity in either charge or discharge.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 13, 2009)

thx again.

considering that it's merely 1:38 Hours into the "Discharge Test" mode/cycle, it would appear that it would continue to discharge for another 5 or so more hours before going into the "Charge Test" mode, right? Then, the "Charge Test" mode would be another 3 hours of charging at 700mA.

Well, it's 9:30pm now. Even if i were to go to bed at 1am, it would not have completed discharge yet.

Should I look for a ceramic plate/glass bowl to put the BC-900 in during the evening? The table is made of wood, and with the postings of melting BC-900 and what not, i'm concerned about going to sleep with it running!

On the other hand, one can make the point that in many of these situations, the reported cases are the rare exceptions, and that in the vast, vast majority of the cases, no melting or malfunction of any sort happens. Right? Otherwise, we'd be reading about malfunctions/meltdowns everywhere.

So, maybe i should use several ceramic plates under the BC-900 and consider that to be the appropriate precautions to take (insulation to the wood desk) prior to going to bed. er...maybe a fire extinguisher handy nearby?

It's just difficult to gauge the level of concern/precautions taken that is appropriate for devices that have a clear track record of meltdowns!! Our microwave ovens, refrigerators, air conditioning units, electric toothbrushes all do *not *melt down!

PS: btw, the discharge cycle is rather cool! the BC-900 isn't that hot at all.


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## VidPro (Apr 13, 2009)

simple teflon coated baking sheet, everyone has one of them.
teflon will keep connections (shorting) from occuring as often, and the baking sheet will contain small unobtrusive fires and melting plastic in check, although it wont contain any actual exploding rocketing cell , the enloops have a releace valve under the nipple.

with notes: burning teflon is toxic .

most of them that failed warped severly from the heat of the battery from what i have seen, and not actually started a fire, and there WAS a LOT of them, if it was a laptop and got on the news, they would have had a freak attack about it, it would be chicken little all over again :tinfoil:.


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## Marduke (Apr 13, 2009)

Don't worry about it. There was only a few isolated incidents with a much older model. Your charger is completely safe.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 13, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Don't worry about it. There was only a few isolated incidents with a much older model. Your charger is completely safe.



Hah!   

For the record, Mr. Marduke was instrumental in suggesting that the BC-900 is the best model most suited to my needs.  for which I am grateful for his patient help in answering my myriad of questions.

Actually, it wasn't nearly as difficult to manage the 1 second full press on the Mode button to "activate" the Mode selector this time. For whatever reason(s), in October 2008, a mere 6 months ago when I first purchased this from Thomas, I could NOT get the Mode switch to do anything or had some issue with selecting something, whether it was the mode or the mA or something, i no longer recall. Mr. Marduke was helping me out but for whatever reason, the BC-900 just didn't want to "do it". Then, somehow, voila, it started cooperating. I do not believe that I did anything differently back in 10/2008, but at some point, after 30 mins or an hour of struggling with putting the 4 AA batteries in F A S T, it just won't allow me to select! 

Today, however, there wasn't such a problem. I wonder what was the problem back then?

Probably, it is partially due to that issue, that my confidence in the BC-900 has yet to build up. I still think of this device as finicky. Maybe, just maybe, after using it more consistently for a few months (now that i have a flash unit for my camera), i'd build up confidence in the BC-900 and not worry about it too much. 

Also, looking at the post above, Marduke said: "...there weren't too many failed units..." and the poster above him said that "...there WERE MANY such failed units...".



VidPro said:


> simple teflon coated baking sheet, everyone has one of them...
> 
> ...most of them that failed warped severly from the heat of the battery from what i have seen, and not actually started a fire, and there WAS a LOT of them, if it was a laptop and got on the news, they would have had a freak attack about it, it would be chicken little all over again :tinfoil:.




Sigh :shrug:

PS: i do NOT have a teflon baking sheet. honest. i don't even know what a teflon baking sheet is. i don't even think i have a baking sheet, teflon or not. bummer. anyhoo...poisonous fumes from burning teflon doesn't sound that wonderful either. what's wrong with my initial idea of putting several ceramic plates under the BC-900, in between the wooden desk and the BC-900? wouldn't several ceramic plates insulate the heat from the wooden desk? the air gap(s) in between the ceramic plates further insulate the heat?


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## VidPro (Apr 13, 2009)

ceramic would work better. i was just mentioning baking sheets as cheap, avilable and perfect for COOKies


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## jt4703 (Apr 14, 2009)

Speaking of heat resistance things to put chargers on... which would be best for a carpeted floor; a silicon baking mat or ceramic tiles? I'm concerned about how hot it gets under the charger while working. I have my BC-900 on a piece of old chair mat just to protect the carpet, but it gets very warm to the touch when the charger is cycling batteries for a while. The part of the mat directly under the charger can get down right hot during any phase. I thought maybe putting it on something to lift it up and get air to circulate underneath, but I wouldn't want anything that could potentially fall over when I walk by either. Would tile or silicon get hot to the touch under the charger or if it did, would it matter? I'm planning on a li-ion setup soon so something that would work to keep my charger area safe for both would be best.



DualMonitors said:


> Actually, it wasn't nearly as difficult to manage the 1 second full press on the Mode button to "activate" the Mode selector this time. For whatever reason(s), in October 2008, a mere 6 months ago when I first purchased this from Thomas, I could NOT get the Mode switch to do anything or had some issue with selecting something, whether it was the mode or the mA or something, i no longer recall. Mr. Marduke was helping me out but for whatever reason, the BC-900 just didn't want to "do it". Then, somehow, voila, it started cooperating. I do not believe that I did anything differently back in 10/2008, but at some point, after 30 mins or an hour of struggling with putting the 4 AA batteries in F A S T, it just won't allow me to select!



I have the exact same problems from time to time on my v35 model which is only a month old. I've taken to loading the batteries into the charger and then plugging it in to set them all for the same task. I still have trouble trying to get every slot to do something different, but I can usually get 2 slots to do different things and do normal charging in the other two slots at the default current.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 14, 2009)

*Oh no! Why does it say 2.00Ah now?*

out of 4 AA's, one has completed discharging (Test mode) and has started recharging. this is slot #2.

it is at 708mA which was what i selected earlier (i picked 700mA). fine. everything seems ok for now.

but WHY is it that when i cycle the display mode button, when i get to the "mAh" display, #1, 3, 4 are still discharging, so they say "---". Still, fine. BUT, slot #2 says: "2.00Ah".

isn't that 2 AMPS per hour? isn't that 2000 milliAmps per hour? isn't that a lot of current? i'm now confused!

oh, duh. does that mean that since one complete discharge cycle has been just completed, the BC-900 is telling me that "hey you, battery #2's capacity based on a complete discharge is 2000mA". that means that it is exactly the capacity that Eneloop is telling us it has, not one wee bit more, not one wee bit less, right?

whew. i think i'm beginning to understand this byzantine battery "thing" now!


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## Niconical (Apr 14, 2009)

Yes, as each slot completes, it will then display the total discharged capacity. By the time you read this you'll probably see that more are finished and are now charging. You can now toggle through and see either the charge rate, time, or discharged capacity. 

When they have all finished and show "FULL", you can pull them out and start the process with the next batch, but it also won't hurt to leave them in a little longer to squeeze in the last few drops of juice. 

If you intend to do the same cycle again for the same batteries that are in there now, leave them for a while first, let them rest for at least an hour or 2.


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## hoarybat (Apr 14, 2009)

Good stuff guys and yes the #35 you see does reflect firmware V35. From Lee the Engineer on Amazon. The Duracell Hybrids were initially Eneloops made in Japan. They have since changed to China manufacturing which purportedly hasn't changed the quality much shockingly. I believe u can find them at Target for around 11 bucks. Also the rayovacs are made in china now. The eneloops may only be one of a few LSD batts made in Japan now. The mistake Duracell made was changing the wrapper on these cells to look too much like their alkalines. A battery company should never do that.







Bottom scan of various LSD AA cells. You can tell that the made-in-Japan version of Duracell is highly similar to Sanyo eneloop, while the made-in-China Duracell is similar to Rayovac Hybrid (made by Yuasa). The Kodak Pre-Charged is probably made by GP. 







http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XSA60I/?tag=cpf0b6-20


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## Elliot (Apr 14, 2009)

> DualMonitor said:
> isn't that 2 AMPS per hour? isn't that 2000 milliAmps per hour? isn't that a lot of current? i'm now confused!



Yup! that's why is says 2,000mAh on the side of the battery. Sounds like your batteries (at least one) and charger are perfect.

A small dinner plate or tile under the charger will work, try to get some airspace under the charger. If to want something to show you that it is doing something - using the "display button" show the voltage in each cell - that's always changing.


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## N162E (Apr 14, 2009)

DualMonitors said:


> Thx all for the comments/suggestions.
> 
> I'm always a nervous wreck using this device. I keep thinking that I ought to have purchased a simpler-to-use device, i.e. one that doesn't that the silly "8-second or you can't do anything" rule. It always makes me feel like this is a machine to test my dexterity or sharpness of my brain.
> 
> ...


Gee, I guess I have been doing it wrong all along. My method-Set all four cells in place, not pushed into the contacts just with the - end in place and the + ready to be pushed in, using my right hand I press in all four cells at once. Step two-stretch, yawn and then push the current button two or three times for 500 or 700ma rate. Step three-there is no step three. In a couple of hours they will be ready,:thumbsup:


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## travelinman (Apr 14, 2009)

I "built" a large aluminum heat sink (taken from a large power supply) and a 12v computer power supply fan running from a 6v wall wart. The fan blows both over and under the charger, keeping everything cool. That being said, I've never charged anything using more than 500 ma, and usually use the 200 ma default setting. I often use the "discharge/charge" function if the cell isn't discharged down to 1.0v, and occasionally use the "test" function, just to see how things are going with a cell. I often use the "all 4" cells inserted and programmed co-operatively system and have never had a hiccup out of it yet. Love that charger.
btw I have a set of 6 - 650 ma nicad cells that I've used for more than 10 years in a handheld radio that are still all giving me more than 600 ma of power. No idea how many times they have been recharged but it has to be in the hundreds of times.
If you treat them right, they will treat you right, back.


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## Marduke (Apr 14, 2009)

Using a fan to cool the charger is actually a bad thing. The primary termination method is -delta V, which is directly related to the temperature of the cells near termination. If you artificially cool the cells, you increase the likelihood of the charger missing proper termination. That is further compounded if you charge the cells too slow (<700mA for AA's).


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## VidPro (Apr 14, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Using a fan to cool the charger is actually a bad thing. The primary termination method is -delta V, which is directly related to the temperature of the cells near termination. If you artificially cool the cells, you increase the likelihood of the charger missing proper termination. That is further compounded if you charge the cells too slow (<700mA for AA's).


 
cool the charger good, cool the batteries using the same charging alogrythm as before bad. if you can adjust its sencing, or they have put a voltage max in like the Maha , then it wouldnt be an issue.
i just mention that because a person had good luck cooling the charger itself, not the batts.


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## Marduke (Apr 14, 2009)

VidPro said:


> cool the charger good, cool the batteries using the same charging alogrythm as before bad. if you can adjust its sencing, or they have put a voltage max in like the Maha , then it wouldnt be an issue.
> i just mention that because a person had good luck cooling the charger itself, not the batts.



I was referring to this statement:



> The fan blows *both over *and under the charger, *keeping everything cool*.



And the lower temperature would also affect Max V. It's much more complicated than "cooler is better"


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## VidPro (Apr 14, 2009)

and , just to complicate thing, with thermal probes barely connected , like in these units, cooling the unit, may cool the thermal probe 
does it ever end :duh2:


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## VidPro (Apr 14, 2009)

hoarybat said:


> The Duracell Hybrids were initially Eneloops made in Japan. They have since changed to China manufacturing which purportedly hasn't changed the quality much shockingly.


 
that information does not correlate with tests done , opinions and data i recieved from this here forum. in this picture i only see 2 batteries that i would trust to act exactally like the original enloops. there is more information about it HERE, layers and layers of it, while the "others" are just "fine" lsd batteries they are different in at least some ways.
i would even bet you $5 USD that if i dissasemble them i find a difference in thier physical makup of the containment even.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2815472


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## DualMonitors (Apr 15, 2009)

i do not follow why cooling the BC-900 as well as the batteries are not good.

i will not build any heat sinks or anything for the BC-900, or for that matter, any other charger. i'm just not into "modding" these things. i paid a reasonable amount of money for a reasonably high end model, and i have reasonable expectations of it working reasonably well.

i will, however, put two ceramic plates under the charger over night (i did it last night) so while i was sleeping, i didn't have to worry that the BC-900 might melt and burn right into the wood desk that it is sitting on. I was thinking that the two ceramic plates would insulate the "gone wrong" heat, IF something went wrong.

thankfully, nothing went wrong last night and my first, virgin set of Eneloops, were charged properly. btw, their capacities were very very close to 2000mA (around 2030mA). blah, nothing amazing, but hey, they only promised 2000mA so they did "meet my expectations".

i'm still not following why cooling the batteries would confuse the charger. maybe i don't have enough of a technical understanding of the device? if possible, kindly explain furthers. many thanks!

i'll do my 2nd set of Eneloops tomorrow during the day.


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## Bones (Apr 15, 2009)

hoarybat said:


> ...
> 
> From Lee the Engineer on Amazon. The Duracell Hybrids were initially Eneloops made in Japan. They have since changed to China manufacturing which purportedly hasn't changed the quality much shockingly.
> 
> ...



Actually, I'm not aware of any conclusive evidence that Duracell is now sourcing their pre-charged cells exclusively out of China. They could just as easily be sourcing them from both China and Sanyo in Japan or have reverted back to sourcing them solely from Sanyo. The only thing we know for certain is that there are now Duracell Pre-charged cells on the market that were manufactured in both countries.

However, NLee's assertion that the cells made in China are equivilant in quality and performance to those made in Japan is simply wrong. As VidPro has noted earlier in this thread, there is ample evidence posted in this forum that regardless of brand, given equivalent treatment, the low self-discharge cells made in China consistently exhibit significantly poorer performance and capacity retention and significantly higher rates of self-discharge well in advance of the cells made by Sanyo in Japan.

This is precisely the reason that so many members of this forum recommend the Eneloop over any other brand of low self-discharge cell.



hoarybat said:


> ...
> 
> Also the rayovacs are made in china now. The eneloops may only be one of a few LSD batts made in Japan now.
> 
> ...



Insofar as I'm aware the Rayovac LSD cell was only ever made in China, and I believe the Eneloop is the only low self-discharge cell made in Japan to date.

This accords with the fact that every low self-discharge cell labelled as being made in Japan, regardless of brand, appears to be in all respects an Eneloop, albiet some are re-badged.


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## Bones (Apr 15, 2009)

DualMonitors said:


> ...
> 
> btw, their capacities were very very close to 2000mA (around 2030mA). blah, nothing amazing, but hey, they only promised 2000mA so they did "meet my expectations".
> 
> ...



Considering how many NiMH cells don't even come close to their rated capacities, I still find it a pleasant reality that the Eneloop does. I would also note that the promised capacity of a cell is denoted by the 'min' on the label. Hence, Sanyo only has to provide 1900mAh to meet their promise.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 15, 2009)

Bones said:


> Considering how many NiMH cells don't even come close to their rated capacities, I still find it a pleasant reality that the Eneloop does. I would also note that the promised capacity of a cell is denoted by the 'min' on the label. Hence, Sanyo only has to provide 1900mAh to meet their promise.



Bones: All very true. I also noted the "Min 1,900mA" when i looked at the batteries last night. I bought them in October 2008 but didn't need them until now - i just bought a flash unit for a new camera body that i purchased, so these Eneloops are for the new flash unit.

Bones, since you're so detailed-oriented, have you figured out whether or not those numbers and letters at the seam of the Eneloops really do mean their manufacturing dates? I don't know how to find out the answer definitively. some have a letter or two, some have a different sequence.


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## Bones (Apr 15, 2009)

DualMonitors said:


> ...
> 
> Bones, since you're so detailed-oriented, have you figured out whether or not those numbers and letters at the seam of the Eneloops really do mean their manufacturing dates? I don't know how to find out the answer definitively. some have a letter or two, some have a different sequence.



Obviously, Sanyo has never provided any sort of confirmation as whether or not the first four digits on the side of the Eneloop represent a date.

However, when the Eneloop first appeared, the outside of the package contained what could be reasonably interpreted as a date:



Bones said:


>



Since this date initially coincided exactly with the first four digits of the code on side of the cells inside the package, we concluded that the digits on the side of the cell represented a date as well. It has since been speculated that the latter two characters on the side of the cell represent a batch code, but I believe this remains pure speculation.

It bears mentioning that there has never been a report that the four digits in question disagree with the conclusion that they respresent a date. In other words, there has never been a report that one or more of the digits could not represent a relevant date, ie: a number that is either too high or too low.

It also bears mentioning that although the date on the cells initially coincided exactly with the date on the package, this is no longer the case. It is now more common for the date on the side of the cell to precede the date on the package by a period of months.


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## DHart (Apr 15, 2009)

Great info here...thanks to DM for starting the thread as I will soon have a BC900 and a bunch of Eneloops from TD.

I'm still a little confused about something... is it clear that new Eneloops, for example, will benefit somehow from being topped off, then fully discharged, then recharged before first actual use? Is one such cycle all that's needed or is there a benefit to doing this twice or three times before first use?

I topped off four new Eneloops on my Maha 204 without doing any cycles... will they have suffered somehow from this?

When one has used a cell for a while, but wants to charge it up before it has been discharged fully during use, is it best to do a full discharge on the charger before beginning the charge cycle or is it fine to just charge it up from whatever state of charge is was in when pulled from use?

Great stuff here, guys, thanks again.


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## Elliot (Apr 15, 2009)

> DHart Asked:
> I'm still a little confused about something... is it clear that new Eneloops, for example, will benefit somehow from being topped off, then fully discharged, then recharged before first actual use? Is one such cycle all that's needed or is there a benefit to doing this twice or three times before first use?



No just charge up and go. True made in Japan Eneloops or "Duraloops" come to you 70 to 80% charged and they have already been through what is termed a "forming" charge at the factory. So you can just pop 'em in the charger to get up to 100%. You only may need to cycle them after long storage or months of heavy use.:thinking:

I should add that if you've bought new cells, but the date shows they were sitting on the shelve a year or two, then yes a top off, discharge and charge is a good idea.


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## Marduke (Apr 15, 2009)

DualMonitors said:


> i do not follow why cooling the BC-900 as well as the batteries are not good.
> 
> i'm still not following why cooling the batteries would confuse the charger. maybe i don't have enough of a technical understanding of the device? if possible, kindly explain furthers. many thanks!



When a cell nearly complete charging at the proper current, the voltage rises sharply, then falls slightly. This is called -delta V. This is typically what a smart charger picks up on to terminate the charge. This voltage rise and dip is directly related to the increase in cell temp near the charge completion.

If you artificially cool the cell, you are inhibiting this -delta V behavior, increasing the chances of the charger missing proper termination.


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## tabetha (Apr 15, 2009)

I use a lot of UNIROSS, as they are very popular here in the uk.
I can say that all apart from 1 out of around 50-60, have shown around 100 -350mah more than stated on these which is 1300mah.
I have just tried my torch a OLIGHT T25, batteries flat again, charged only 2 days ago, they are ANSMANN, and always do this, not cheap but going in the bin, no use to me, even though they have been through a conditioning cycle, which increased them from around 400mah to 2400mah.
tabetha


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## hoarybat (Apr 15, 2009)

Bones said:


> Actually, I'm not aware of any conclusive evidence that Duracell is now sourcing their pre-charged cells exclusively out of China. They could just as easily be sourcing them from both China and Sanyo in Japan or have reverted back to sourcing them solely from Sanyo. The only thing we know for certain is that there are now Duracell Pre-charged cells on the market that were manufactured in both countries.
> 
> However, NLee's assertion that the cells made in China are equivilant in quality and performance to those made in Japan is simply wrong. As VidPro has noted earlier in this thread, there is ample evidence posted in this forum that regardless of brand, given equivalent treatment, the low self-discharge cells made in China consistently exhibit significantly poorer performance and capacity retention and significantly higher rates of self-discharge well in advance of the cells made by Sanyo in Japan.
> 
> ...




Thats why I posted this to have comments on it! Good feedback. I think they Japan batteries that I have had have nearly always been of better quality than the chinese batteries. One of the reasons I am still buying Sanyo Eneloops when I find them on sale!


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## hoarybat (Apr 17, 2009)

Hey guys, well if Lee the Engineer is saying Duracell precharged has switched to China manufacturing maybe they're still doing Japan and China? Or Wally world has some leftovers from JAPAN. Yesterday I purchased a 4-pack of Duracell pre-charged DX1500 made in Japan at the local super Walmart for $12. Indeed they look like Eneloops. The date on the package says duracell 2007. If they have stopped making them I am glad I got them but it appears they're still available. I like paying a few dollars less for Eneloops repackaged. Would hope the quality is the same.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 17, 2009)

*1st set of 4AA Eneloops "done" a few days ago, now my 2nd set...*

I finally opened my pack of 4AA Eneloops (purchased 10/2008 from Thomas but never opened) and did a "virgin charge/discharge/charge 'Test Cycle'" a few days ago.

Now, armed with my new-found confidence and knowledge (!), and a reduced level of fear of my BC-900 (so complicated to use!), I took out my 2nd set of 4AA Eneloops (purchased 10/2008 as well from Thomas), and the "code" on the seam of the batteries say the same thing on them "0 7 -07IO" (though it is very hard to read).

this time, due to the advice here from Silverfox et al, i pressed the Mode button for several seconds immediately after inserting the 4AA batteries, then cycled through the modes till i saw:

CHARGE

TEST


I want this mode/cycle because i want to fully charge (top off) the brand new Eneloops first, then fully discharge them, then fully charge them up again. Only one FULL cycle, but it allows the batteries to have a proper, first charge, and gives me sort of a "state of the affairs" of this set of 4 Eneloops, right?

i then went immediately to the "Current" button to click through the mA numbers until i see 1000mA. As Silverfox and Marduke et al recommended 1000mA, i let it stay at this number (my first set i did at 700mA due to my over cautious ideas). *ODDLY, the first "mA" number i saw when i pressed the Current button was 200mA.* *Does the BC-900 ALWAYS default to 200mA regardless of what mA you used the last time you used it? Shouldn't it remember what you used last time and use THAT as your default? It should figure that that is your personal choice and "remember it", right?*

i'm going to use a Sharpie pen to number the Eneloops, i.e 1 to 4 for my first set of 4 which i recharged several days ago, and 5 to 8 these next set of 4AA's. is that a good idea?


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## Marduke (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: 1st set of 4AA Eneloops "done" a few days ago, now my 2nd set...*



DualMonitors said:


> *ODDLY, the first "mA" number i saw when i pressed the Current button was 200mA.* *Does the BC-900 ALWAYS default to 200mA regardless of what mA you used the last time you used it? Shouldn't it remember what you used last time and use THAT as your default? It should figure that that is your personal choice and "remember it", right?*



"Default" is called default for a reason.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: 1st set of 4AA Eneloops "done" a few days ago, now my 2nd set...*



Marduke said:


> "Default" is called default for a reason.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 18, 2009)

*wow! unbelievable!*

Wow. my 2nd set of 4AA Eneloops were taken out of their packaging (purchased from Thomas on 10/2008) and i did a "Test Cycle" with my BC-900.

1943, 1982, 1974, 2000

were the capacity results, so they were fully charged when i took them out of the charger.

thinking about it, i was a bit unsatisfied. sure, it is really not relevant as they essentially are 2000mA, but i thought, hey, wouldn't one more cycle "do it good"?

i decided to perform a manual "Discharge cycle" by pressing the Mode button and cycling it through until i saw the words DISCHARGE on the display. As I was doing the Test cycle with 1000mA, this Discharge cycle was doing its thing at 500mA (as the manual stated, it is 1/2 of the selected charging current).

Fine. I went about my business. Thinking that upon completion of the manually set Discharge cycle, i'd have to press Mode again and tell it to now Charge it! Right?

NO! the BC-900 somehow knew that it was discharging to nothing, essentially, and then it AUTOMATICALLY charged it back up to Full. I then re-read the manual, and, of course, it says that it will first discharge and then charge it! The difference between Test and Discharge cycles is that the Test has a "top up first" before discharging portion.

Guess what? The new capacities are way higher!

2210, 2250, 2240, 2320

That's more than 10% greater capacities than if i did not perform this painless Discharge cycle!

That's a good thing :twothumbs


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## Marduke (Apr 18, 2009)

*Re: wow! unbelievable!*



DualMonitors said:


> Guess what? The new capacities are way higher!
> 
> 2210, 2250, 2240, 2320
> 
> ...




No, they are not. Those are *accumulated* capacities, not discharged capacities. That's how much energy was put into the cell, which is an overestimate. The Discharge mode cannot give you true discharged capacities because the charger has no way of knowing if you put charged cells on. That's what the test mode is for.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 18, 2009)

*Re: wow! unbelievable!*



Marduke said:


> No, they are not. Those are *accumulated* capacities, not discharged capacities. That's how much energy was put into the cell, which is an overestimate. The Discharge mode cannot give you true discharged capacities because the charger has no way of knowing if you put charged cells on. That's what the test mode is for.



Ok. Mmm... that said, is the Test mode the ONLY mode that one can tell what the true capacities are?

You wrote: "...The Discharge mode cannot give you true discharged capacities because the charger has no way of knowing if you put charged cells on." I know that i had just completed charging those very cells, so does that mean that in this particular instance, as I knew that I had JUST completed charging those very same cells, that those capacity figures are still correct after all? Maybe they won't be correct in other instances, but in the instances when we had JUST finished charging them, and THEN use the Discharge Mode, wouldn't it stand to reason that we end up knowing the true capacities after all? 

a bit confused now. Thx in advance for your anticipated reply.


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## Marduke (Apr 18, 2009)

*Re: wow! unbelievable!*



DualMonitors said:


> Ok. Mmm... that said, is the Test mode the ONLY mode that one can tell what the true capacities are?
> 
> You wrote: "...The Discharge mode cannot give you true discharged capacities because the charger has no way of knowing if you put charged cells on." I know that i had just completed charging those very cells, so does that mean that in this particular instance, as I knew that I had JUST completed charging those very same cells, that those capacity figures are still correct after all? Maybe they won't be correct in other instances, but in the instances when we had JUST finished charging them, and THEN use the Discharge Mode, wouldn't it stand to reason that we end up knowing the true capacities after all?
> 
> a bit confused now. Thx in advance for your anticipated reply.



No, the final readout in the Discharge mode is always *accumulated* capacities, or how much energy went IN during charging. Those readings will always be more than true capacity.

The Test and Refresh modes give discharged capacities. Charge and Discharge modes give accumulated capacities.


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## Russel (Apr 18, 2009)

*Re: wow! unbelievable!*



DualMonitors said:


> Ok. Mmm... that said, is the Test mode the ONLY mode that one can tell what the true capacities are?
> 
> You wrote: "...The Discharge mode cannot give you true discharged capacities because the charger has no way of knowing if you put charged cells on." I know that i had just completed charging those very cells, so does that mean that in this particular instance, as I knew that I had JUST completed charging those very same cells, that those capacity figures are still correct after all? Maybe they won't be correct in other instances, but in the instances when we had JUST finished charging them, and THEN use the Discharge Mode, wouldn't it stand to reason that we end up knowing the true capacities after all?
> 
> a bit confused now. Thx in advance for your anticipated reply.


 
Use the BC-900 TEST CYCLE to measure battery capacity because test cycle measures and displays the amount of energy actually drained from the battery. (As opposed to Discharge cycle, which will display the amount of energy used to charge the battery.)

I tend to get higher readings with the BC-900 TEST CYCLE than with the MH-C9000 discharge cycle. The MH-C9000 discharge cycle discharges the battery, without any charging, and measures the energy discharged. The BC-900 TEST CYCLE first charges the batteries, then immediately discharges them while recording the discharged energy, and finally recharges them, displaying the discharged capacity. Because the batteries are discharged right after charging, with the BC-900, the discharged capacity tends to read higher.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 18, 2009)

*ok, i'm lost...yet again. i follow your advice...*

hi guys:

thx for your posts.

i understand now. the Discharge cycle measures how much energy you PUT INTO the Eneloops, not how much they retained and can SPIT OUT. right? 

so, being the eager learner that i am, i followed your advice, and after using my brand new Nikon flash unit for a birthday party this afternoon, i am now putting the Eneloops through a Discharge cycle. I'll be able to report back on how that does by the morning.

Thx for such precise guidance. Much appreciated.


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## Marduke (Apr 18, 2009)

Discharge cycle? Why?


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## Russel (Apr 18, 2009)

*Re: ok, i'm lost...yet again. i follow your advice...*



DualMonitors said:


> hi guys:
> 
> thx for your posts.
> 
> ...



If you just want to cycle the batteries, use the BC-900 discharge cycle. If you want to test the batteries for capacity use the BC-900 TEST mode.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 19, 2009)

*Maybe I made a mistake...*

oh, hello guys:

maybe i made a mistake. i don't remember now.

i've just gotten home and looking at the unit.

it's on:

CHARGE

TEST

cycle.

that said, it is only 48 minutes into the cycle of charging. Yet, it is already at 2.06Ah. That's 2060mA, right?

that doesn't make send at all.

how can charging at 1000mA for 48 minutes result in 2060mA capacity?

it would take 2 HOURS of charging at 1000mA in order to achieve anything close to 2000mA capacity, right?

I'm now confused. Kindly, if you can, please explain and clarify for me. Many thanks and sorry to continue this thread on and on.

thx.


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## Marduke (Apr 19, 2009)

Sounds like you put the cells on Test, not Discharge. They are simply on the 3rd portion, the charge phase of "Test".

The capacities displayed are therefore discharge capacities.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 19, 2009)

ok. so, does that mean that eventually, when it FULLY discharges, and then starts to completely CHARGE, i'll then see the true capacity?

i'm confused, yet again. sigh. sorry.


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## Marduke (Apr 19, 2009)

DualMonitors said:


> ok. so, does that mean that eventually, when it FULLY discharges, and then starts to completely CHARGE, i'll then see the true capacity?
> 
> i'm confused, yet again. sigh. sorry.




Judging by the current display, it's already fully discharged, and charging back up on the third and final step of the "Test" mode.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 19, 2009)

well, the numbers are:

2.06 Ah 2.10 Ah 2.09 Ah 2.06Ah

am i on the right track?

below that, it says:

CHARGE

TEST


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## Marduke (Apr 19, 2009)

Yep, those look like discharge capacities. The cells will probably be done charging in about an hour.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 19, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Yep, those look like discharge capacities. The cells will probably be done charging in about an hour.



Oh...Marduke: would you stay up for another hour to see if this is working properly? 

i'm merely joking. i hope you understand. ha ha.

i hope this is all done by the time i get ready for bed! it's already 1:40am!!

yikes. this battery optimization thing is too much! maybe i ought to be pleased with sub-optimal batteries.

:thinking:


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## DualMonitors (Apr 19, 2009)

*It's done, but the numbers are...*

it's done now. but the number are the same!! how odd.

FULL

2060 
2100
2090
2060

CHARGE

TEST


Mmm...now what? it's the same as before!


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## Lite_me (Apr 19, 2009)

When in the TEST mode, it displays the DISCHARGE CAPACITIES after completing the discharge cycle and does not change after it completes the (re)charge cycle. 

That why it's named TEST. You want to know how much capacity the cell will hold. It holds that readout so you don't miss it after the complete cycle is finished.


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## Marduke (Apr 19, 2009)

*Re: It's done, but the numbers are...*



DualMonitors said:


> it's done now. but the number are the same!! how odd.
> 
> FULL
> 
> ...




Same as what? If that's the 2nd set, they are better


1943, 1982, 1974, 2000


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## mikkl (Apr 22, 2009)

I have a new BC-900 and several nimh AAs of various ages, starting with a Camedia 1450 mah set from 1999. I have been searching the forum for recommendations on the charging current. The consensus seems to be that 200ma is inappropriate. Does this stand for older batteries? Does the 700-1000 apply for most/all nimh batteries?

If this is hijacking the thread, please let me know and I'll repost as new thread.

TIA,

mikkl


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## DHart (Apr 23, 2009)

mikkl... consensus seems to be that .5C to 1C is a good range for charging current to avoid missed termination. (e.g. 1000-2000 mA current for charging a 2000mAh cell.)

========

As an aside....

I recently received a BC-900 and must say, I'm really thrilled with this charger. Granted it isn't "perfect" in all regards, but I haven't found "perfect" in _anything_ of this earth. 

So far, in the last few days, I've been impressed with what this charger can do and how easy it is to use! Nice!

Tomorrow I should receive my Maha 9000. I'll spend a week or so using both chargers and then decide whether to keep one, the other, or both!

It's great to have at least two excellent, reasonably priced chargers to choose from for fueling our beloved flashlights!


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## TakeTheActive (Apr 23, 2009)

mikkl said:


> *I have a new BC-900 and several nimh AAs of various ages, starting with a Camedia 1450 mah set from 1999*. I have been searching the forum for recommendations on the charging current. *The consensus seems to be that 200ma is inappropriate. Does this stand for older batteries? Does the 700-1000 apply for most/all nimh batteries?*


The general recommendation for NiMH cells is to charge them at 0.5 - 1.0C to insure a positive -DeltaV termination. But, as cells age, they also build up 'Internal Resistance' and charging at too high a current will cause the cell to prematurely heat up. Then again, charging at too low a current results in too small a -DeltaV and the charger may miss that termination signal and continue to overcharge the cell until Max Voltage or Max Temperature or Max Time kick in and stop it. So, what should *YOU* do? 

Well, *I* would start charging at 1.0C and monitor the cell temperature. If it began getting hot (over 120*F) before it reached -DeltaV, I would abort that cycle and next time I would lower the current. With a Maha C9000, where you can adjust the current in 100mA steps, you have much more control - start with 1400mA, drop back to 1200mA, check temp, adjust accordingly. 

With a La Crosse BC-900, you're limited. With older cells, I wouldn't start with 1500mA (1.03C) - try 1000mA (0.69C) first and check the temp. After 10 years, your cells may be down to 80% (1160mAh), so 1000mA will actually be 0.86C. Run a 1000/500 DISCHARGE/REFRESH and pick a time when you can constantly monitor the progress. Write down the total mAh for each cell each time the BC900 switches from Discharge to Charge mode and then post them here when you're done. (I own both the BC-900 and the C9000 along with LOADS of older non-LSD NiCd and NiMH cells.)

If you want to get more involved and learn more, click on my Sig Line LINK and read the articles in the first section. That's how I learned...


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## Mike89 (Apr 24, 2009)

Questions:

If you have eneloops and they are sitting in a case unused for a few months, what should be done with them? (charge, discharge, test, refresh, etc).

Also if these batteries were to be unused for a few months, would it be better to store them charged or discharged?


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## TakeTheActive (Apr 24, 2009)

Mike89 said:


> Questions:
> 
> If you have eneloops and they are sitting in a case unused for a few months, what should be done with them? (charge, discharge, test, refresh, etc).
> 
> Also if these batteries were to be unused for a few months, would it be better to store them charged or discharged?


In my Sig Line LINKs, you'll find: *Minimize the Aging Effects on Your 'Storage Box Queens' by Storing Them PARTIALLY Charged*


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## Bonky (Apr 24, 2009)

I think you guys really overthink this stuff. I'm lazy so I just plug the LaCrosse in and then plug the batteries in, and then go to sleep. Next morning they're good to go. Which means I charge them at 200ma. Never had a problem. If I need them in a hurry I'll charge them at 700 or 1000 but I have several sets so this is rarely needed.


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## Mike89 (Apr 24, 2009)

Well the problem I see with you never having a problem is if that's all you do, you're not going to know how matched the batteries are, if any memory is forming, the general overall condition of each battery, etc. You may not know you have a problem, yet. I figure if I have these hot shot chargers (this one and my newly acquired C9000), I might as well use the things they can do. Otherwise, I'd just get a stripped down charger that charges but doesn't tell me anything else (like the C800S that I also have). I don't call this overthinking, I call it taking advantage of what you have. If my charger will also wash the dishes, hey I'm going to throw some dishes at it. Might as well, can't dance.


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## Bonky (Apr 24, 2009)

oh I use that stuff occasionally, but not frequently. To me it's all about making my life more convenient. If I have to worry about it, then the tech isn't helping. I think fancy chargers are good for reconditioning batteries, "forming" them, testing, etc. But once that's done, 90% of the time you should just let them do their thing without stressing out about it. The OP is clearly stressing too much.

FYI, my girlfriend has had two 1700mAh FujiFilm rechargeable AA batteries since 2002. She's charged them on the crappy charger that came with her FujiFilm camera for the past 7 years. It has one red light that turns off when they're done charging. 

I tested them in my LaCrosse and they're ~1600 mah now. After 7 years, charging on a simple charger, sometimes being left in there for days, sometimes sitting for months unused, sometimes being drained to almost nothing, they've lost less than 100mah.

Get decent batteries and worry about other stuff


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## Mike89 (Apr 25, 2009)

I'm just a rookie in this recharging arena, I'm not in the same league yet with the high discharge warriors. 

I'm having fun though with all this tinkering.


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## DualMonitors (Apr 27, 2009)

*Lacrosse BC-900 & Eneloop AA: 2nd Test cycle*

I used up a good amount of the charge in my first set of 4AA Eneloops over the weekend shooting a wedding (the 4xAA's were in my flash unit), so i decided, out of curiosity, to do another Test/Charge cycle so i can read the capacity again 

First Test/Charge results from 2 weeks ago:
2040 2000 2050 2030

Yesterday's 2nd Test/Charge results:
2060 2090 2080 2080

Hey, the trend is certainly a good one, right? So basically, the AA Eneloops' real maximum mA is around 5% greater than the stated 2000mA figure. 

Good! :thumbsup:


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## Turbo Guy (Apr 27, 2009)

Cell states 2000 typical ,1900 mininum.

Tested capacity will depend on the freshness(age) of the cells, past storage,useage,DOD,charge rate,temperture and a bunch more variables .

BC 900 gives higher mAh than C9000 if both are set for same charge / discharge rate as the C9000 waits for two hours after charging beforedischarging and the BC 900 does not. Warm cells perform better.


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## DHart (Apr 27, 2009)

Turbo Guy said:


> BC 900 gives higher mAh than C9000 if both are set for same charge / discharge rate as the C9000 waits for two hours after charging beforedischarging and the BC 900 does not. Warm cells perform better.



Ah... good to know, Turbo, I was just wondering why I was reading higher capacities on my BC-900 than my C9000 was indicating.


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