# OOOOOO!!! ~Xenon Headlights!



## Greta (Feb 2, 2003)

Just bought a 2003 Nissan Murano yesterday. Midnight blue. Fully loaded with GPS and all kinds of other fancy stuff. But what caught my eye (literally!) was that it has Xenon Headlights! OOOOOOOOO!! AHHHHHHH! and get this!!... they are adjustable at the push of a button! I actually giggled at that... then said to my husband, "I gotta tell the guys about this!"


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## Kirk (Feb 2, 2003)

Sasha,
What's the adjustable part? The website doesn't explain. Very cool vehicle.
Kirk


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## Greta (Feb 2, 2003)

Kirk,

It adjusts the headlights up or down. Not like high beam and low beam. This adds distance to your low beam... mostly on the passenger side. You can see the difference when you look at the road. The right beam shines further out. These lights are VERY cool!! They are true blue lights so that it illuminates the road ahead as if it were daytime. I've never seen anything like it! And the really weird thing is that where the beam ends, it ends. There is a distinct "line" between light and dark. 

(You all will have to excuse me... this is new to me and I'm easily impressed!



)


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## avusblue (Feb 2, 2003)

I thought HID lights were supposed to have auto-leveling to compensate for heavy loads in the back of the car pitching the bright lights up into oncoming traffic. I'm surprised (and pleased) to learn that the driver is allowed to adjust them on your car.

When I was in Europe on business last November I noticed that my rental car (a German Opel) had a thumbwheel to aim the headlights up or down, depending on the load in the car. These were conventional, non HID lights. I thought it was a great idea, but they're not in compliance with DOT regulations in the US. (Once again, gov't idiot-proofing our cars.)

But, if you have a German car, apparently they're pretty easy to add, the part will pretty much bolt in. At least on VWVortex or TDIClub, there's threads aplenty on how to add them to your Volkswagen.

BTW, the Murano looks like a great car. I've only seen a couple in passing and not yet up close, but seems like a neat concept. The magazines love it. Keep us updated as the miles add up, how you're likin' it.


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## highlandsun (Feb 2, 2003)

Yah, the Mondeo I rented in Ireland last month had that thumbwheel too. I think they've had those for years really, I remember it on the cars I rented two-three years ago. All conventional halogens, but adjustable from inside the car. Of course, on my Mondeo the two lights were misaimed, two different heights, and both too low, so I stopped in at a hardware store to buy an Allen key to fix their height. Amazing what can **** you off when you're driving.

Anyway, I have bi-xenon HIDs on my car. Definitely the way to go...


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## avusblue (Feb 2, 2003)

Which model BMW do you have?


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## Saaby (Feb 2, 2003)

Euro Saabs have thumb-wheel aimable lights too. Don't know how Nissan is getting away with them.

Who's the SUV for Sash? I thought you just got a new truck.

DOT specs for headlights are WAY out of date. Almost every other country in the world uses E-Spec lenses which, among several other things, have the sharp cutoff at the top of the beam you describe. Actaully the DOT wants to outlaw HID lights (Too bright, glare for oncoming drivers) but if they'd just kill DOT lenses and go to E-Spec it'd fix the problem.


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## highlandsun (Feb 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by avusblue:
> *Which model BMW do you have?
> 
> 
> ...


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heh heh... Who needs a BMW?

I oughta rig up a height adjuster that works with my pop-up light motors. That'd be slick. Would require reprogramming the microcontroller that runs them right now, though.


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## Entropy (Feb 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by Saaby:
> *
> DOT specs for headlights are WAY out of date. Almost every other country in the world uses E-Spec lenses which, among several other things, have the sharp cutoff at the top of the beam you describe. Actaully the DOT wants to outlaw HID lights (Too bright, glare for oncoming drivers) but if they'd just kill DOT lenses and go to E-Spec it'd fix the problem.*


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting. Do you know of any cars with E-spec lights that I might see in the U.S.

Personally, I think HID headlights should be banned, as far as oncoming drivers are concerned they're full-time highbeams. I don't know how many times I've been completely blinded by someone's HIDs.


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## Greta (Feb 3, 2003)

Ryan,

The new Urban SUV



is for my husband. You know how it is with guys... they need all of the gadgets to play with. I swear he's gonna kill us all with that damn GPS. Yesterday, he had it talking to us in French!



No, I still have my truck... and I think I'll keep it. However, I do think I'd like to have a pair of these headlights installed...


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## James Van Artsdalen (Feb 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by Saaby:
> *Actaully the DOT wants to outlaw HID lights (Too bright, glare for oncoming drivers) but if they'd just kill DOT lenses and go to E-Spec it'd fix the problem.*


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's too late to kill auto HID lights. There are too many of them on the road. Moreover, they meet regulations and are no brighter than ordinary lights, just whiter. That said, it may be that regulations are naive as to the perceived brightness of yellow vs. white light sources.

On my car only the low beam bulbs are HID. The bright high beam bulb is halogen of some sort.

To be honest I wish the auto HID fad had not caught on. It adds probably $200 to the cost of the car (and more than that in price) without adding much value. Well-designed xenon bulbs would last long enough and be white enough in my opinion (i.e. spending an extra $20 on halogen bulbs would get nearly all of the useful benefit manufacturers get by spending $200 on HID, except snob appeal).

My headlights have the automatic level adjustment but with no manual thumbwheel. Since the car also has a chassis leveler it's not clear what value the headlight leveler has.


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## e=mc² (Feb 3, 2003)

I found an interesting article in USA Today regarding this very same subject. If your browser can read pdf files, check out the following link: HID Complaints 

Here is a snippet from the article which shows the spectral distribution of Tungsten vs. HID:


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## S4MadMan (Feb 3, 2003)

Sorry James, I'm going to have to completely disagree here. HIDs (in general) put out much more lumens than traditional halogens. In additional HIDs have better color temperature so you get better contrast resulting in seeing more.

Steping aside and doing the visual inspection, HIDs are far superior to traditional halogens.

I have an Audi S4 with upgraded HIDs. 50 Watt Ballasts and 5,400K bulbs (currently have 10,000K for "fun"). I guarantee it's much brighter than any halogen. And no, they do not reflect and shine on oncoming traffic. That's a function of how you angle the lights. OEM HIDs are all projectors (as you know) and focus the light unlike fogs lights which just throw out the light. 

Please note: the color is not actually that blue. The DigiCam cannot capture the true color.






I think it's pretty obvious which is 50 watt.










Going back to your information about Halogens being as bright, that is just not the case. I have done visual comparisons between numerous cars and HIDs are superior in every aspect except price.

Just some more random pictures:












> Originally posted by James Van Artsdalen:
> Moreover, they meet regulations and are no brighter than ordinary lights, just whiter. That said, it may be that regulations are naive as to the perceived brightness of yellow vs. white light sources.


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">


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## Saaby (Feb 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by Entropy:
> * </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Saaby:
> 
> DOT specs for headlights are WAY out of date. Almost every other country in the world uses E-Spec lenses which, among several other things, have the sharp cutoff at the top of the beam you describe. Actaully the DOT wants to outlaw HID lights (Too bright, glare for oncoming drivers) but if they'd just kill DOT lenses and go to E-Spec it'd fix the problem.*


*<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting. Do you know of any cars with E-spec lights that I might see in the U.S.

Personally, I think HID headlights should be banned, as far as oncoming drivers are concerned they're full-time highbeams. I don't know how many times I've been completely blinded by someone's HIDs.*</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No no no--you see if you use E-Spec lenses with the HID then it cuts that problem. More light goes on the road instead of into oncoming drivers eyes. There are plenty of cars with E-Spec lights installed as an aftermarket accessory, you just don't notice them unless you're looking for them...I'm about to add them to a Volvo in fact.


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## James Van Artsdalen (Feb 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by S4MadMan:
> *Sorry James, I'm going to have to completely disagree here.
> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by James Van Artsdalen:
> ... are no brighter than ordinary lights, just whiter. That said, it may be that regulations are naive as to the perceived brightness of yellow vs. white light sources.
> *


*<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wording was sloppy. Perhaps what I should have said: I believe new halogen headlight at DOT limits can emit as much optical power (in watts) as a HID. “Bright” is an ambiguous term.

The trick is to note my second sentence: human senses are not perfect linear sensors. DOT regulations need to take into account perceptual issues. A HID (like sunlight) has a lot of blue that a halogen won’t have and it may confuse our eyes, which evolved night-vision never seeing so much blue after sundown. What is “bright” to a light meter and what is “bright” to a semi-dark-adapted human may be entirely different. I believe a halogen will emit more power in the long red than a HID but that doesn’t seem to bother the eye.

You might be able to filter out the shorter blue and solve the issue. It’s probably not that easy or the headlight manufacturers would have done it already.

I see HIDs all the time and they’re not that bad. My car came with HIDs. But, I think they are a waste of money in that one tenth the dollars put into a quality xenon-halogen bulb would get the results desired. An effective tire-pressure monitoring system would do vastly more for safety and cost less than a HID.


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## S4MadMan (Feb 4, 2003)

Oh yeah, I have E-Codes as well:













> Originally posted by Saaby:
> No no no--you see if you use E-Spec lenses with the HID then it cuts that problem. More light goes on the road instead of into oncoming drivers eyes. There are plenty of cars with E-Spec lights installed as an aftermarket accessory, you just don't notice them unless you're looking for them...I'm about to add them to a Volvo in fact.[/QB]


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">


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## WaltH (Feb 4, 2003)

I've got the auto-leveling HID's on my Boxster S. Great lights. Even my wife noticed how much better they are than conventional lights. Properly installed HID's are no more blinding that regular lights IMO.


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## Zelandeth (Feb 4, 2003)

As for the thumbwheel, it's found its way to Russia as well, Neighbour's Lada Riva and Niva both have that control - along with some of the best tungsten lights I've seen on a "cheap" car (out-throws the standard unit on the '02 Mondeo easily on dip and main beams). Pretty irrelevant addition, but thought I'd throw in my two cents.

On a slightly different note, my observation on the types of lights with those "optics" for want of a better term. When driving toward them, they're not too bad - when I find they're a real pain is if the car behind you is equipped with them. As the car goes over bumps in the road, you tend to see the spectra at the top edge of the beam in your mirrors - particularly if you're being tailgated - which people seem to do to me every day on principle because I'm driving a bright yellow '81 Austin Metro, whether or not I'm doing speeds into three figures! You end up driving along too darn fast to try and get rid of them, with what looks like a fireworks display in the corner of your eye. I think it's the "line" at the end of the beam that's the problem, you can see the spectra being produced in the images in the above images. More than once, I've just seen the bluish flickering, and though I was being pulled over by a cop car...which also happens all the time for no good reason.

Whether these lights are HID or not, I don't know. But I do know that most of the lights I have seen with those optics seem to exibit this characteristic, and they're certainly on my list of disliked things.


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## Bob Snow (Feb 11, 2003)

I was under the impression that the new SAE spec for HID lighting allows more lumens than the old SAE spec for incandescent bulbs. I think the rational is that the beam pattern is better in the new spec, so more overall light output is allowed.

If all cars had HID, I don't think there would be much of a problem. But it's a bit like an compact car being hit by a much larger SUV. If you have HID lights, you probably have much better illumination of the road ahead, even when dealing with the glare of oncoming HID lights and even less of a problem with oncoming incandescents. Biggest problem is being in a car with incandescents and dealing with oncoming HIDs.

I think this problem would disappear in just a few years if it were not for the cost of HID lighting.


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