# When will we see a P60 style headlight?



## Ace12 (May 3, 2010)

It would be nice to have a headlight that i can buy p60 style drop-in and just pop in in. That way you can have the beam of your choice and upgrade to a better emmiter when the technology changes. One of you flashlight makers need to jump on this. I'll buy the first one.


----------



## kevinm (May 4, 2010)

Working on it...:naughty:


----------



## psychbeat (May 4, 2010)

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wave::wave::wave::wave:

Im DYING to get my nailbender DUAL R2 XPG 4000k module
in a HEADLAMP....

or my SST50...

single 18650 is my preference..

oh man have I been waiting for one of these..


----------



## Jagge (May 4, 2010)

I have been using P60 dropin based headlamps for quite some time. But instead of dropping it in an additional body I have soldered wires directly to dropin and used dropin itself as lamps body. It it isn't that difficult to solder some wires, get head band and use something like hose clamp to attach the dropin to the head band. Lamp becomes more lightweight without additional body, works great if it doesn't need to be so waterproof you could submerge it. Currenly I have two p60 dropin headlamps in use, single P7 version and dual P7 headlamp (avatar). Both has been in use over an year now, both still going strong.


----------



## motorwerks (May 4, 2010)

I was just thinking about this today. I want one, it sucks that I just threw away an old head lamp the other day, I might have been able to make that work. That said I have some ideas.


----------



## psychbeat (May 4, 2010)

Jagge said:


> I have been using P60 dropin based headlamps for quite some time. But instead of dropping it in an additional body I have soldered wires directly to dropin and used dropin itself as lamps body. It it isn't that difficult to solder some wires, get head band and use something like hose clamp to attach the dropin to the head band. Lamp becomes more lightweight without additional body, works great if it doesn't need to be so waterproof you could submerge it. Currenly I have two p60 dropin headlamps in use, single P7 version and dual P7 headlamp (avatar). Both has been in use over an year now, both still going strong.



whoa! thats kool!

if its not a hassle could you please post a couple pics (avatar is kinda small)

also, im wondering about heatsinking etc.

thanks!

:thumbsup:


----------



## CampingLED (May 4, 2010)

You could  Moddoo to make you one https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/222588


----------



## psychbeat (May 4, 2010)

I PMed him about it with no response. 
Im sure he's busy with the triple XPG drop-ins
or something else cool


----------



## mrbubbles (May 5, 2010)

Read this thread.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238165


----------



## psychbeat (May 5, 2010)

whoa! thanks!!

that looks promising. I might have to buy one and 
try modding it or send it to nailbender or milky or someone..

Id probably want to make a 1X 18650 batt holder and

put a UCL in there and some extra copper strips on the
pill.

Id still like something a little more buttoned down and 
less macgyvered


----------



## kayakjax (May 11, 2010)

I've been looking for a P60 headlamp, too.

I don't have great light-fabrication skills (yet), and would like to start with a higher quality starting point.

Any more options out there?


----------



## psychbeat (May 12, 2010)

Im thinking of ordering a couple of cheap
DX P7 modules and mounting them on 
some piece of old bike part or something
and just using aligator clips on an 18650 in a
sandwich bag.. pretty ghetto.

no switch just put on the clip. I have some old
seatpost left overs n other ano aluminum bits.
or maybe get a couple of cheap
solarforce bezels n JBweld them at an angle off
a flat backing. Im so short on time these days and
would rather be outside than in the garage..

Id rather have a more elegant "out of the box"
type set up too though. maybe someday...


----------



## Sgt. LED (May 14, 2010)

I've been asking for this very thing for about 2 years and so far nobody will take up the job.
A couple different people have played with the idea and made a prototype but at this point it's all vapor, old vapor at that.

This is a big market just floating around with nobody to take advantage of. You want flood, 15 seconds later you have you M60F beaming. You need some real distance? You just toss in your Deerelight R2 XR-E with smooth reflector and you're good.
The flexibility ensures that the product stays viable for years and yet there is no one with the gumption to give it a go and make some money.


----------



## psychbeat (May 14, 2010)

^^^amen.

tons of mtb-ers n cavers would be all over it if
it was simple and tough.


----------



## Blindasabat (May 17, 2010)

I think the problem is a headband attachment method. Most headlights use a small plastic pivot hard to machine in aluminum. I just made a simple adapter for a Malkoff to attach to my bike helmet mount only because it uses a single bolt attachment. I posted pictures in the transportation / bike forum. If there are some headlight mounts that are similarly simple then maybe there is a way.
But the second problem is that the length of a P60 makes it hard to keep it small and mounted low in front of the forehead like an elastic band requires.


----------



## swrdply400mrelay (Jun 12, 2010)

Blindasabat said:


> But the second problem is that the length of a P60 makes it hard to keep it small and mounted low in front of the forehead like an elastic band requires.



How about a headlamp housing with a more shallow reflector that at least accepts the P60 pills?


----------



## red02 (Jun 12, 2010)

Those old fulton angeled army lights seem like the best candidates.


----------



## Therrin (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm actually working on a dual P60 headlamp platform. Constructing something that is dual drop-in, dual switched, and still small and light is not overly simple, especially when it needs to be waterproof and rugged enough for real use. I do professional mineshaft exploration; so I'm working around it from that in mind as a "usable" aspect. 

I'm actually working on it *right now* in solidworks, I just jumped on to check out some stuff for the internals. Haven't been on here in several months. Good to be back


----------



## psychbeat (Aug 3, 2011)

Therrin said:


> I'm actually working on a dual P60 headlamp platform. Constructing something that is dual drop-in, dual switched, and still small and light is not overly simple, especially when it needs to be waterproof and rugged enough for real use. I do professional mineshaft exploration; so I'm working around it from that in mind as a "usable" aspect.
> 
> I'm actually working on it *right now* in solidworks, I just jumped on to check out some stuff for the internals. Haven't been on here in several months. Good to be back


 
AWESOME!

PLEASE KEEP US POSTED!
:thumbsup:


----------



## joanne (Aug 3, 2011)

Therrin said:


> I'm actually working on a dual P60 headlamp platform. Constructing something that is dual drop-in, dual switched, and still small and light is not overly simple, especially when it needs to be waterproof and rugged enough for real use. I do professional mineshaft exploration; so I'm working around it from that in mind as a "usable" aspect.
> 
> I'm actually working on it *right now* in solidworks, I just jumped on to check out some stuff for the internals. Haven't been on here in several months. Good to be back



Oh sure you are.... 

Ok, so if you weren't so busy going into old, abandoned mines and making things go "Boom" it would already be done!







I'm looking forward to seeing your headlamp in action. Are both LEDs going to be for throw or will it be flood/throw? You know that I'm always available for product testing. Hey, what are friend for? Right?

I'm currently playing around with some 18650x3 battery packs for my Apex Pros. I'm tired of running through the cr123 batteries every time we head out. I purchased an Accucel-6 charger and have 6 18650 cells from a laptop to make some "test" battery packs with. Next I'll order new, protected batteries and make my "real" battery packs. 

I won't have lights as good as you and Speedy, but at least I'll get some decent run time and be able to recharge them.

Sorry I missed the last trip! It looks like it was a good one. We have to get you out to Delamar, hopefully before the snow starts flying!! 

_*Joanne*_


----------



## Therrin (Aug 6, 2011)

More like, if I wasn't spending the first several weeks teaching myself how to do everything in Solidworks, I'd already be done!

Truthfully, I've finished one handheld/rail-mounted light design and already gone over it with my machinist. Prototypes should be finished soon. 

As it's rail-mountable (picatinny rail), anything you can bolt a 2 slot picatinny rail to, you can mount this light on; be it a helmet or anything else.

I have started working on a front-mounted headlamp design using dual p60 style dropins and dual switches, but I'm a little stuck as to what I'm using for the internal stuff. I want it to be a "true" drop-in design, so no soldering on the dropins. Right now looking over switching options and methods for attaining a very high level of waterproofing. Think I've come up with a good solution but it'll need a little bit more modelling before I'm really ready to shoot for a prototype with it.

Also designing 18650 battery packs to complement it. Aluminum outer casing, master on/off, LED indicator. 


And everything they've said is true. You let ANYTHING get in the way of your designing, and next thing you know a week has gone by and you haven't done anything to it. Otherwise I'm in solidworks, with a pile of flashlight parts on my desk, and my digital calipers out taking measurements and refining down design ideas.

It's a very slow process. 

Nice to see you on here though. Missed your D/O cooking at the last trip. I think I ate more meals at the Crowbar than I did in camp on that one.


----------



## Therrin (Aug 30, 2011)

Totally stuck at this point on what switches I want to use. I'd like to maintain a very high level of waterproofness. I've been looking at using the "magnetospheric" switches, some kinda new generation of reed switches. Or possibly just using clicky's, but I want smaller ones than 20mm. Maybe 16mm. 

Ok, here's a question, who knows a really good clicky switch supplier that carries 20mm and 16mm, and both forward and reverse clicky switches?


----------



## psychbeat (Aug 30, 2011)

plain clickys might be enough - but with some of the higher power drop-ins
you may be limited on how much current they can handle. McClickies only 
handle ~5a. Id check out the Fettie by vanisleDSM maybe?
Im following this with rapt attention... please make a few extra to sell!!!
Id probably want to mount one on a headband if possible - if not then
Id mount the rail on my fullface mountain bike helmet hopefully under the
visor.


----------



## Therrin (Aug 30, 2011)

My entire purpose for doing it at this point is to make them marketable. 
Originally I just wanted a better headlamp for myself, till I realized that with some proficiency in solidworks, and the determination to put good materials and parts together you can make something better than what's on the market; and that people will likely want them as well. 

Sten's are "expensive", but they're almost cheap compared to those other one's coming outta Europe. I don't recall the name. 

Only thing is that Stens, like most lights, "you get what you get". I'm not sure that dropin systems are as efficient, and they're definitely bulkier, but I really like the concept of purchasing/making a platform; and you vary the type and style of lighting output for your changing needs.

I was just about to order some of the magnetosphere switches till I realized that they're just momentary unless you have something holding the activator in position. They of course come either NC or NO, and are similar to reed switches, but much more durable and they don't freeze in place on overvoltages. Can't get the models much further till I know exactly what internals I'm using. Gah...


----------



## psychbeat (Sep 20, 2011)

its almost the end of daylight savings time and Im 
itching to upgrade my headlamp situation....

either one of these or an Ahorton - whichever is done first


----------



## shao.fu.tzer (Sep 20, 2011)

When I read the title of the post I thought you meant like.. you know.. car headlights.. That would be cool... Pop in some drop-ins into your car! Now there's a thought... I have tons of drop-ins that are brighter than the POS lamps on the car I drive...


----------



## psychbeat (Sep 21, 2011)

^^^^yeah dual quads would be beter than my 1986 Corolla GTS sealed beam
halogens- imagine dual quads on yer head!!

....sigh it's been years tho


----------



## kevinm (Sep 21, 2011)

Almost done with the prototype...


----------



## kevinm (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm testing the prototype this weekend in cave, but I thought I'd add a picture or two to the thread.












 
I'll start a thread about this when we're close to a pre-order.


Kevin


----------



## kevinm (Sep 23, 2011)

Ace12 said:


> It would be nice to have a headlight that i can buy p60 style drop-in and just pop in in. That way you can have the beam of your choice and upgrade to a better emmiter when the technology changes. One of you flashlight makers need to jump on this. I'll buy the first one.


 
Can I hold you to that?


----------



## Bolster (Sep 23, 2011)

Put me down as very interested in the p60 concept headlamp also. Of course the devil is in the details but the concept is righteous.


----------



## psychbeat (Sep 24, 2011)

yah Im PP ready... just ordered a Quad neutral XP-G module in hopes to use
it with one of these hosts..gonna order a pair of fresh 3100mah 18650s for
a batt pack too..


----------



## kevinm (Sep 24, 2011)

You'll shoot your eye out...


----------



## kevinm (Sep 24, 2011)

The in cave test went off without a hitch. The light with a "500" lumen XM-L dropin was noticeably brighter than the Sten on turbo (even the Sten owner commented on it) and had better throw with a very useable corona. I had no trouble walking and seeing the floor, even in a cave with mud like peanut butter (very light absorbent). On low, it was good in belly crawls. It wasn't too heavy on the helmet and stayed put. 

Good, all around!


----------



## kevinm (Sep 28, 2011)

Another option...


----------



## psychbeat (Sep 28, 2011)

I like the cooing ribs.
seems like a lot of room for the switch- almost as much as
the module. 
oh yeah - are you thinking of making battery boxes?

also, what is the total height. Im tempted to put some kind of
mount on my fullface bike helmet tho Id like a strap mount too
if possible which is how I use my current HL (Spark 460NW)

red ano would look pretty sick too..:devil::devil::devil:


----------



## kevinm (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks; I like the ribs too. It's 10g heavier (10g more mass) than the one that's all cut out, but it might be worth the extra mass.

The switch is steel, handles 10A, is low profile and domed, military grade, mechanical (rather than electronic), and is really waterproof. Those things make it big. It looks like there will be room in there for an LED or two for flood, but the circuit would have to be separate. With all the different UI's with different dropins, it would be a bit weird controlled by the same switch.

I'm considering battery boxes as an option so far. They would make it a bit more expensive, which I am trying to avoid. They would make it tougher, though. 

The helmet mount I designed has cut outs for the straps for a headband. 

Red and blue are the top 2 color contenders! I hear that the shop I'm using does a really nice HA purple too.


----------



## kevinm (Sep 29, 2011)

Prototype with headband:





Other prototype:


----------



## psychbeat (Sep 29, 2011)

I still think you could probably fit a bare flood emitter or two in the switch area 

does the unit have a swivel/hinge for adjusting the angle on the band?

Im also interested in the best way to make my own 2x 18650 batt holder/pack
and what type of connectors and cable to get etc.

PM me if you dont want to clog up this thread.


----------



## RCantor (Sep 30, 2011)

I assume the round hole on top is the switch, the round hole on the R is for the P60. What's the square hole for? I'd get more than 1 if the price was great  I like the fins but it seems that having them oriented parallel to the direction of travel would give you more air circulation.


----------



## kevinm (Sep 30, 2011)

Right on all counts! The square hole is for the wiring and making machining cheap. I'm hoping the pricing will be great too...  Still waiting for the quote from the machine shop. My hope is $200ish .

I argued with myself about the parallel versus perpendicular thing with the fins. Flow would be faster parallel, but vortices would be greater perpendicular, particularly if it is pointed down a little. I don't know. The Navier-Stokes equation is hard to solve... 

Kevin


----------



## psychbeat (Sep 30, 2011)

A bare neutral XM-L running @ .5 A 
one mode always on when the switch is on would be an awesome option for the switch area. 

Kinda like a running light. If u were using a multiple mode dropin u could just set it on low while the flood would provide close in light. 

Then there wouldn't b any weird UI clashes- and it could be an add on option for customers (like me) who need A LOT of lumens. 

Ill mostly be using a neutral quad XP-G drop-in with mine. Simple 2 mode hi/low. All of my modules are 3modes or less.


----------



## kevinm (Oct 1, 2011)

Funny you should mention that...  It just dawned on me that I have a small pile of single mode 7135 based driver boards lying around. You could choose 350mA, 700mA, 1050mA, 1400mA,...I might even be able to stack them.

I also found a driver for 30mA. I was thinking about modding mine so that as long as the battery is connected, a flood LED would see that. It should be 15ish lumens. That way, if things go really wrong caving, I should have light for 111 hours.

XP-G neutral's a good choice for throw!


----------



## psychbeat (Oct 1, 2011)

Yah single xpg throws ok but the quads r floody. I've got a 1.4 XR-E direct copper module I could pop in for real throw 

That would be a cool combo with a bare emitter flood. 

I'll mostly be using the quad xpg probably for bike rides and trail building. I went conservative and got the 4.2 A one since I'll be using it for more than 10min on high before switching it down to low. 

Also got the aluminum heatsink to save $ and weight. The copper is probably pretty hefty. 

New can of Plasti-dip arrived today- I'm ready to party!


----------



## kevinm (Oct 8, 2011)

Time for a pre-order...


----------



## RCantor (Oct 8, 2011)

kevinm said:


> Time for a pre-order...



You're missing a link with that. Although if 200 is the reasonable price it's over my head. I'll just have to gaze longingly 

I can't imagine having a light on all the time. Couldn't there be a small switch for the flood?


----------



## kevinm (Oct 9, 2011)

Hi RCantor,

I haven't put it up yet; need to take some photos. I know $200 is steep, but the switch alone is $30ish, there is a lot of custom machining, and anodizing costs $110 minimum per batch. Making stuff is expensive! 

The light on all the time would be an add-on if someone wanted one. Waterproof switches are big!


----------



## RCantor (Oct 9, 2011)

I'm 100% certain that this is a reasonable price. Would it be possible to have 2 P60s in there? ! (that's a capital 1) spot, 1 flood? (and a multi position switch for all off/1 on/other on/both on?)


----------



## kevinm (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks; it's more than I wanted it to be. 

I'm working on having 2, but the space is kind of small. The new switch is supposed to be a little smaller, and then there might be room. I'm thinking about having that as an add-on to keep the price down as much as possible. Also, it depends on whether the switch has a stable center position.

Kevin


----------



## kevinm (Oct 10, 2011)

Here's the feeler thread!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...dlamp-(with-prototype!)&p=3766397#post3766397


----------



## Therrin (Oct 15, 2011)

Alright, I'll throw out some solidworks snapshots just to keep appetites whetted. This *actual* model in this screenshot has been severely reconfigured, but it's the basic idea that I'm putting out here, just a simplistic design to show the scope.
Spent quite a while refining down the switching system and internals, as well as the current project which is creating highly durable battery belt packs and tubing-run wiring between the two which is not only waterproof, but fuels/oils resistant and does not easily burn. 

My systems are being designed for mining and mine rescue workers; though I'm working on a couple other models which are a little simpler in scope as well.







With head-finned heads attached.





It is a true dual p60 drop in modular system with screw-on heads. One is intended for throw and one for flood. The flood is likely going to be reflector-less, mated inside an internal sleeve for proper placement inside the unit. 

I just recieved (qty) 67 18650H batteries from a friend. They are in excellent condition, so I've put things on hold temporarily to look into buying an excellent charger/reconditioner for them. I'll be using them in my prototype battery packs (and other projects, of course) 

What would YOU do with 67 x 18650H's? :nana:


----------



## goose2283 (Oct 15, 2011)

I like it, Therrin. Good work!


----------



## Therrin (Oct 16, 2011)

Sgt. LED said:


> I've been asking for this very thing for about 2 years and so far nobody will take up the job.
> A couple different people have played with the idea and made a prototype but at this point it's all vapor, old vapor at that.
> 
> This is a big market just floating around with nobody to take advantage of. You want flood, 15 seconds later you have you M60F beaming. You need some real distance? You just toss in your Deerelight R2 XR-E with smooth reflector and you're good.
> The flexibility ensures that the product stays viable for years and yet there is no one with the gumption to give it a go and make some money.



It's really not as easy as that. Nor will most people just want to "swap" dropins for a different need on the go. 
This is why my design incorporates TWO dropin sockets on the headlamp frame.

But seriously, yes, I realize there's a market for it. However, I've been teaching myself Solidworks from the ground up for the last 6 months, going through one design iteration after another, researching materials, plastics, wiring, waterproofness, switches, battery pack options, etc. 
It's by no means a "simple" process. It's not "easy". It's not "fast". 

There's so much that goes into it. Especially if you don't already happen to be an engineer of some kind and you're learning every single bit of it from the ground up. Half the trouble is not knowing all the things you don't know that you need to learn.

So... I can't speak for the other's who might be working on this, but for me.... it has not been an easy road. I AM making constant progress though.
I mean, I'm doing all this on the side of working 72hr weeks of night shifts and sleeping most all day, working all night. If I had the time to just put fully towards this without having to work or eat or sleep, I'm sure it'd go a lot faster 

Also, anyone can just "make something", but making something that is marketable is more difficult. Creating the process to make more of them is time-consuming. Putting in the design time to say "does this look hokey, or does this look professional" adds up quite a bit. 
I have several factors that I'm trying to fit in, and when I fall too far outside my lines on one or several of those factors, I revamp entirely. I don't want some bulky monstrosity that sticks really far out and weighs a ton and isn't efficient and looks like it was built in a garage. It takes time!


----------



## RCantor (Oct 16, 2011)

Looks great! I'm afraid to ask how much they'll be.


----------



## Therrin (Oct 16, 2011)

Haven't a clue at this point. =P

Depends on final cost of materials and number manufactured per run. No idea. Depending on how it all turns out, it'd definitely be cheaper if you supply your own dropins and/or battery pack. I'll post more as I know more.


----------



## kevinm (Oct 17, 2011)

Nice work, Therrin! And I feel your pain; it's a difficult thing to do. :sick2:

I was lucky to have worked in a physics lab that paid me to learn to do some machining for them.


----------



## psychbeat (Oct 17, 2011)

one of my best friends n bandmates works at SLAC 

hes not into flashlights tho....

daylight savings is almost over!
time to go nocturnal-ish

wondering if I should leave the tabs on these 2 NCR18650a 
for a plasti-pack or is the box looking probable?


----------



## Therrin (Oct 22, 2011)

I'm not even sure how to translate that... but I have about 90 18650H's with tabs on them and I've been thinking over the same question. The other 10 I already pulled the tabs off of. 

Now I'm trying to figure on building battery packs with them, with a protection circuit based on the entire pack, or if I should be protecting some of them individually and re-shrink-wrapping them. =P

At the moment I don't have a laptop, so during my 12 hour shifts at work I found I can kinda "run Solidworks" in my head and refine down my design parameters on my lights. It takes quite a bit of concentration though, also kinda hard to "save" it to a file. I need to buy a laptop.


----------



## Bolster (Oct 22, 2011)

kevinm said:


> Hi RCantor,
> 
> I haven't put it up yet; need to take some photos. I know $200 is steep, but the switch alone is $30ish, there is a lot of custom machining, and anodizing costs $110 minimum per batch. Making stuff is expensive!



Guys, $200 for custom machining like this is a bargain. I have a mill and I could not get this job done for $200 if I paid myself $40 per hour (below market), let alone anodizing, the switch, and whatever else comes with it. This job would take me all day, figure $40 x 8 = $320 for just the cutting of the metal. Of course I'm talking a manual one-off, not a small CNC production run, but still...custom machining takes time and expensive machinery to do it, no way around it.


----------



## kevinm (Oct 22, 2011)

Thanks, Bolster. 

I'm not making much on these, but I get the caving headlamp I've been wanting!


----------



## kevinm (Oct 22, 2011)

psychbeat said:


> wondering if I should leave the tabs on these 2 NCR18650a
> for a plasti-pack or is the box looking probable?



Sorry psychbeat, I forgot to check this thread. The battery packs look likely, but hold off until I confirm.


----------



## Therrin (Nov 8, 2011)

Bolster said:


> Guys, $200 for custom machining like this is a bargain. I have a mill and I could not get this job done for $200 if I paid myself $40 per hour (below market), let alone anodizing, the switch, and whatever else comes with it. This job would take me all day, figure $40 x 8 = $320 for just the cutting of the metal. Of course I'm talking a manual one-off, not a small CNC production run, but still...custom machining takes time and expensive machinery to do it, no way around it.



^^ This person speaks the truth!!! =)


----------



## Therrin (Sep 29, 2013)

My posts have been moved over to their own thread. You can now watch my progress here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...mp-Designing&p=4287745&highlight=#post4287745

Questions, comments, advice, etc are all welcome


----------

