# Polarion PH-50 Main Thread



## Patriot

Upon *Cue003's* suggestion, I agreed that it would be nice to have a place for the PH-50 Group Buy members, and anyone else who wants, to post their reviews, pictures, beamshots, info, comparisons, etc. 

Additionally, anything Polarion is welcome here! Pictures are worth a 1000 words so be liberal with them if possible.

I'm currently sitting here tapping my fingers while waiting for the FedEx truck to arrive. In the meantime I'll post a couple of PH-40 pics......








* PH50 Gif image compilation moved from post #275


* 
PH40 vs. PH50 504 yards to the tower





PH40 vs. PH50 504 yards (zoomed)





PH40 vs. PH50 178 yards to tree





331 yards to the steeple, over 600 yards to mountian on either side of steeple.





331 yards to the steeple (wide)





PH50 vs. Xe50 137 yards (courtesy of Cowley)





PH50 vs. Xe50 350 yards (courtesy of Cowley)





368 yards wide





368 yards telephoto, 668 yards to mountain behind steeple





414 yards to tree


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## Litbobber

Very nice pics!


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## Patriot

The PH-50 is here!! 


Ok, I'll just start with some pictures:


My favorite vehicle to have in front of my house:





What's this....a present from Ken and David?





Don't cut your finger off during the excitement Patriot!





Nice case and in perfect condtion





Immediately upon opening with Polarion manual and sling on top





Uncovered





Contents with manual





Hmm, small scratch.





PH-50 in foreground with it's PH-40 brother behind





PH-50 on left with PH-40 right






Yes, I've turned it on. Impressive and noticeably brighter than the PH-40. I betting on the fact that the difference will be even more striking when I get them outside tonight.

More to come........promiss!


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## adamlau

*Quick & Dirty Polarion PH50 Shots*

*Quick & Dirty Polarion PH50 Shots*

Introducing the Polarion Helios PH50





Against exterior wall (12 PM noon daylight) @ 12'





Hotspot from 20' looking down (4:30 PM afternoon daylight)





Indoor beam profile from 15' (4:30 PM afternoon daylight)





Test shot @ 120 yards, 1/4 second white balanced to Tungsten





Test shot @ 120 yards, 1/4 second white balanced to Day Light...





*Brightness Levels Increased 25%*

Test shot @ 120 yards, 1/4 second white balanced to Tungsten + 25%





Test shot @ 120 yards, 1/4 second white balanced to Day Light + 25%





*Preparing for a beamshot session against SureFire HOLAs*

Gate to be opened during the session





Distances verified via surveyed and recorded benchmark takeoffs


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## Patriot

Nice Adam...very nice beamshots too! I hope to get some tonight.



Here are a few differences between the batteries and tailcaps.

PH50 battery (back)





PH40 battery (back)





PH50 battery (front)





PH40 battery (front)





PH50 left PH40 right, Tailcaps (outside)





PH50 left PH40 right, Tailcaps (inside)





PH50 tailcap inside, backlit looking through smoked LED window





PH40 tailcap inside, backlit looking through smoked LED window


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## adamlau

The PH50 PS-B8-P battery is rated at 14.4V, 4400 mAh (4S2P 18650). The accompanying FranMar AC/DC charger is rated at 19VDC @ 1.57A and charges the PS-B8-P at 0.35C (1.57A / 4.4A = 0.35). We can likely double the charging current to 3.14A and charge at 0.71C through a hobby charger and charging jack to effectively reduce charge times in half (battery protection circuit allowing)  .

*Additional Observations...*

1. Incorporating the grooved body of the PF50 into the PH50 would provide for superior grip and handling of the light.
2. The rotary switch can be easily rotated on and off by the thumb if handled with an overhand grip on either the body, or the handle. 
3. Recommended to place the charger on an inert, heat dissapating surface such as a concrete curb, or granite countertop while charging*.
4. The HA of the PH50 is not quite as matte as the HA finish found on the aluminum components of the Benelli M4.
5. The tailcap could do without the inscriptions, which serve little purpose other than advertising.

* Recorded 110ºF while charging on 3.5-inch concrete slab in 78ºF outside temperatures.


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## Patriot

> adamlau said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PH50 PS-B8-P battery is rated at 14.4V, 4400 mAh (4S2P 18650). The accompanying FranMar AC/DC charger is rated at 19VDC @ 1.57A and charges the PS-B8-P at 0.35C (1.57A / 4.4A = 0.35). We can likely double the charging current to 3.14A and charge at 0.71C through a hobby charger and charging jack to effectively reduce charge times in half (battery protection circuit allowing)  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> So you could get the charge time down close to two hours then right?
> 
> I wonder why polarion uses that charger. I guess it just a little easier yet on the batteries.
> *
Click to expand...


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## kenster

adamlau said:


> The PH50 PS-B8-P battery is rated at 14.4V, 4400 mAh (4S2P 18650). The accompanying FranMar AC/DC charger is rated at 19VDC @ 1.57A and charges the PS-B8-P at 0.35C (1.57A / 4.4A = 0.35). We can likely double the charging current to 3.14A and charge at 0.71C through a hobby charger and charging jack to effectively reduce charge times in half (battery protection circuit allowing)  .
> 
> *Additional Observations...*
> 
> 3. Recommended to place the charger on an inert, heat dissapating surface such as a concrete curb, or granite countertop while charging.


 
oo: Thanks for the posts with all the wonderful pictures! :twothumbs BUT YOU GUYS OWE ME A NEW KEYBOARD.  :laughing: Yup, I`m JEALOUS!!!! 

I didn`t even pay attention to how long the battery takes to charge. :duh2: Since it appears it takes over 4 hours it would really nice if that time could be cut in half. Isn`t the protection circuit built into the battery pack? Would it blow or just cutout and reset? Hmmm :thinking: ..... Please try it on your battery pack and let me know.  Oh, and how hot does the charger get? 

Patriot36,

I have 10 x 42 Swarovski and I walked out the store with an empty wallet  but they are FANTASTIC! :thumbsup:


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## cue003

Wow, Patriot36 thanks for the shout out. LOL. 

Excellent work so far. Absolutely awesome. I think the difference in the tailcaps is probably due to the PH40 was supposed to have a charging cradle that you could rest the entire light into and charge from that perspective so you can always top off like in a vehicle or whatever. I don't believe it ever came to fruition. Looks like they did away with that option in the PH50.... 

Excellent shots on everything. Questions....

1) Does the PH50 say PH50 on it? 
2) It the time to total brightness the same or slower than the PH40?
3) is "Instant On" brighter immediately on the PH50 vs. PH40?
4) is there any additional weight to the PH50 over the PH40?
5) Have you tried the PH40 battery and tailcap or even PH40 battery and PH50 tailcap combo?
6) Is the balance in the hand the same for both lights?

Also Patriot, when you do the comparo shots of 40 to 50, could you put them in one of those animated GIFs or whatever so we can easily see the difference without the up/down scolling of our screen. 

I know... I know... I am a demanding SOB... LOL.

Thanks guys. 

I am really jealous so far but no worries. I know mine is coming.....

Curtis


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## adamlau

cue003 said:


> 1) Does the PH50 say PH50 on it?


Yes it does.


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## Patriot

cue003 said:


> Wow, Patriot36 thanks for the shout out. LOL.
> 
> Excellent work so far. Absolutely awesome. I think the difference in the tailcaps is probably due to the PH40 was supposed to have a charging cradle that you could rest the entire light into and charge from that perspective so you can always top off like in a vehicle or whatever. I don't believe it ever came to fruition. Looks like they did away with that option in the PH50....
> 
> Excellent shots on everything. Questions....
> 
> 1) Does the PH50 say PH50 on it?
> 2) It the time to total brightness the same or slower than the PH40?
> 3) is "Instant On" brighter immediately on the PH50 vs. PH40?
> 4) is there any additional weight to the PH50 over the PH40?
> 5) Have you tried the PH40 battery and tailcap or even PH40 battery and PH50 tailcap combo?
> 6) Is the balance in the hand the same for both lights?
> 
> Also Patriot, when you do the comparo shots of 40 to 50, could you put them in one of those animated GIFs or whatever so we can easily see the difference without the up/down scolling of our screen.
> 
> I know... I know... I am a demanding SOB... LOL.
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> I am really jealous so far but no worries. I know mine is coming.....
> 
> Curtis





You're welcome and once again, it was a great idea.

*1)* Adam took care of this, but here ya go, since I already had them:

left side





right side





*2) *The time is right about the same. 6-8 seconds to full brightness, and another 6-8 for the full color to come in. Total of about 14-16. Note that it's probably outputting 3000-4000 lumens within 3-4 seconds though. 

*3) *If it is brighter quicker, it's not by much. They're both spitting serious gobs of light within seconds.

*
4) *I just weighed them for you but believe it or not I could feel that the PH50 was slightly heavier.

PH50





PH40





*5) *Yes, they're interchangeable and each light works with the other's battery and tailcap. 

*6) *Yes, the balance point is the same for each light. The difference in weight is so small that any difference in balance is non-detectable.


I'm not sure if I'll be getting beamshots tonight. If I do they're be very basic. Once I get some good pics, I'll be happy to gif those pictures for you Curtis.


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## vee73

:goodjob:Thanks guys for the all pics and comments!
Please send pics 40W vs. 50W.

My PH40 battery is exactly same as PH50.
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/04/27/8143010478538355253orig.jpg
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/mediaobjects/orig/pub/2008/01/27/8143010478535597975orig.jpg


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## LuxLuthor

Wonderful posts, photos, and details. Patriot....love seeing the blow by blow starting with the FedEx truck. I could almost see you jumping up and down with excitement !!!

One thing is obvious from everything I have ever seen with the Polarion lineup--they exude quality craftsmanship ! :twothumbs


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## BVH

I'll be anxious to see this thread mature! Polarions certainly exude quality & craftsmanship as Lux says.

Got my EZnite today and it, too exudes a very high level of Q & C similar to that of the Helios I owned.


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## Patriot

Thanks for the compliments *Lux*.... Yeah, I was pretty excited for it to arrive. In reality I opened the door as the Fedex gal was walking up. She said, "somebody is eager"....lol. I only set it back down for the photo op. And yes, I did think about taking a picture as the package was walking to my door but when I saw it was a female I didn't want to be rude or make her feel uneasy. 

*BVH*, Congrats on receiving your EZnite! I know you've been excited about that. I'd love to hear your full report.

*Vee73* I'll have some basic beamshots for you to see in about 45 minutes.


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## BlueBeam22

Congratulations on getting your PH50 Patriot36!
Hope you enjoy it!:thumbsup:


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## Patriot

BlueBeam22 said:


> Congratulations on getting your PH50 Patriot36!
> Hope you enjoy it!:thumbsup:



Thank you BB22,

I sure am enjoying it. I got to see it perform a little bit tonight. Pics & beamshots coming in about 10 minutes.

Paul


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## Patriot

*This is just a very basic, grab a few lights and head to the park run, so bare with me as the beamshots are under exposed and somewhat grainy. If nothing else it's a good relative comparison because they're all taken at F5.6 2" and ISO400. The focal range is approximately 65-75mm of a 35mm film equivalent, so...slightly zoomed. 

The aim of the lights isn't perfect either, but close. Even though it doesn't appear this way with some of the weaker lights, they were all aimed approximately at the trunk of the tree. There was a lot of ambient light in the park too which is why I went with a 2 second shutter instead of 4 seconds which would have been closer to what the eye sees. I just picked a few lights that were in cases already and easy to grab-n-go. All batteries are new or fully charged. *


*The Lights:

**M6 MN21
FM-11 smooth 2C
Mag-85 MOP 3C (driven very hard, insta-flashes easily if not careful)
PH-40
PH-50

Tools:

Two tripods
Leica LRF 1200 laser range finder
Zebralight H30
Canon S2 IS 







Beamshots, Range to the base of the tree is 178 yards.

M6 MN21





FM-11 Smooth 2C





Mag-85 MOP 3C (driven hard) The stepped shadow down the hill caused by the protruding bezel on this light....see first picture.





PH-40





PH-50






After seeing the PH50 compared to the PH40, I have little doubt that it's producing 2000+ lumens more. I dont believe the output rating of the PH50 is overstated at all. 

I'll post some longer range shots tomorrow. Hope that you've enjoyed these. :naughty:

Paul





*


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## vee73

Thanks Patriot36! Thanks a lot!


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## Patriot

kenster said:


> oo: Thanks for the posts with all the wonderful pictures! :twothumbs BUT YOU GUYS OWE ME A NEW KEYBOARD.  :laughing: Yup, I`m JEALOUS!!!!
> 
> I didn`t even pay attention to how long the battery takes to charge. :duh2: Since it appears it takes over 4 hours it would really nice if that time could be cut in half. Isn`t the protection circuit built into the battery pack? Would it blow or just cutout and reset? Hmmm :thinking: ..... Please try it on your battery pack and let me know.  Oh, and how hot does the charger get?
> 
> Patriot36,
> 
> I have 10 x 42 Swarovski and I walked out the store with an empty wallet  but they are FANTASTIC! :thumbsup:




You're welcome Ken. It was fun to post everything. My charger is getting to 98 degrees after 10 minutes or so. 

Glad to hear that you're a Swarovski guy Ken.  Did you get the EL's or the SLC's? As you stated, they're outstanding. They have a great mix of all the best attributes of premium optics. I enjoy the Zeiss and Leica too, but usually grab the "Ski's" the most often. I also have 15x56SLC's and 7x42SLC's. Lights, bins, shooting, and mountain biking.....I can't get enough


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## LuxLuthor

Patriot (let me know if not ok), I converted those two pix into a gif which really shows the difference between the two models. Great pix and lineup!


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## adamlau

*Beamshots: SureFire MN61 vs. Polarion PH50*

*MN61 vs. PH50*

Camera: Canon SD1000
ISO Setting: 200
Lens Aperture: F2.8
Exposure: 1/3 Second
White Balance: Day Light
Moon Illumination: 59 Percent
Rangefinder: TruePulse 200
Distance: 106 Yards

Daylight Control (12 PM PDT)





Nighttime Baseline Control





MN61 off AW Protected 3x17670





Polarion PH50 @ 1 Second After Ignition





Polarion PH50 @ 20 Seconds After Ignition





*Brightness Levels Increased 25%*

Control Shot + 25%





MN61 off AW Protected 3x17670 + 25%





Polarion PH50 @ 1 Second After Ignition + 25%





Polarion PH50 @ 20 Seconds After Ignition + 25%





*PH40 vs. PH50 Animated GIF (Floyd-Steinberg 256)*

Supplied images courtesy of Patriot36


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## TheGreyEminence

Hi
Is there still a chance to join the Group Buy for the PH50?
And if yes, what would be the price?

Thank you very much

Kind Regards...


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## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> Patriot (let me know if not ok), I converted those two pix into a gif which really shows the difference between the two models. Great pix and lineup!





I love it Lux! Thank you very much. I was in the process of getting my gif software loaded back on after a melt down a while back. I was getting tired and didn't feel like doing it tonight........Lux to the rescue! 

Thanks again.

P.S. I guess they were aimed pretty well, as revealed by the gif file. It's hard to believe that the other picture is a PH40 after seeing how incredible it has done in previous shoots. 



Adam....I'm digging the pictures you just posted. I've been through them about three times now. Thanks so much for posting them.


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## Patriot

TheGreyEminence said:


> Hi
> Is there still a chance to join the Group Buy for the PH50?
> And if yes, what would be the price?
> 
> Thank you very much
> 
> Kind Regards...




GreyEminence, I believe the GB ended weeks ago, but here is the thread:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=176896

You'd want to talk to Ken Good, or David at the Fenix-Store to get clarification.


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## TheGreyEminence

Thank you!


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## PhantomPhoton

Someday... maybe I'll find a way to get one. Gotta find a better job first.
Great beamshots adamlau, thanks!


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## LuxLuthor

Patriot36 said:


> P.S. I guess they were aimed pretty well, as revealed by the gif file. It's hard to believe that the other picture is a PH40 after seeing how incredible it has done in previous shoots.



What turned out to be perfect are those 4 tiny orange background lights that you can use to verify same F stop and second exposure times, as well as the perfect alignment between the two. Sweet!

I have to give credit to Lips for really showing how effective those gifs are.


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## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> What turned out to be perfect are those 4 tiny orange background lights that you can use to verify same F stop and second exposure times, as well as the perfect alignment between the two. Sweet!
> 
> I have to give credit to Lips for really showing how effective those gifs are.




Ha!!! I didn't even think of the park lamp reference. Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, no messing around with the shutter or F stop, as verified by the background. I was also careful not to bump the camera tripod or light tripod. I also lucked out because the light holder held both Polarions exactly the same way. I didn't have to re-aim after removing the 40 and putting the 50 on there. 

Lips is the gif king. He's the one who inspired me to try my first one. Thanks Lips, wherever you are.
:wave:


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## Patriot

Here are the larger images if anyone feels like gif'ing them too.

PH40





PH50


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## kenster

:huh2: In just over 14 hours this thread has become a dialup users download *NIGHTMARE!*  Well,...............



vee73 said:


> Thanks Patriot36! Thanks a lot!


 
Thanks Patriot36!  And adamlau as well! :twothumbs Lovin all the wonderful pictures and info posted here! :rock: 

Patriot, 10 x 42 EL. A few years ago, I had Nikon 10 x 50 which seemed pretty good at first but I soon discovered brief peaks with them or they really messed up my eyes & head. :duh2: At the time it seemed like a krazy idea to spend so much money on binoculars but just for fun I stopped by a gunstore and once I took a peak, those Swarovski were *MINE*. So, YEE-HAW to being *KRAZY! :tinfoil:* Still have the Nikon for folks that ask to borrow but I doubt I will ever use them again.


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## vee73

kenster said:


> :huh2: In just over 14 hours this thread has become a dialup users download *NIGHTMARE!*  Well,...............
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Patriot36!  And adamlau as well! :twothumbs Lovin all the wonderful pictures and info posted here! :rock:


 
:rock:AMEN:rock:


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## DM51

SUPERB thread - excellent info, photos and contributions throughout. This is how it should be done! Many thanks for making me envious!


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## karlthev

Lordy, thanks to everyone for these rather incredible shots and write-ups!!! I am afraid (when I finally do get my PH50) my possible addressing with pale terribly by comparison! I'll give it a whirl though!


Karl


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## BVH

I'd call the diff btw the 40 and 50 very significant! I'm impressed!


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## BlueBeam22

Great beamshots Patriot36!

Your PH50 looks 300% brighter than my POB HID:bow:
Does it out-throw the Costco HID?
The PH50 is an amazing light to throw so far with such a small reflector!

Thanks!
Blue


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## Patriot

*Ken*, yeah it's fairly photo intensive isn't it. Possibly worth the wait for the folks with slower connections though?  I see you have the 10x42EL also. It's such an ergonomic bin and has proprietary coatings. One of the biggest advantages of premium bins is that you don't get tired viewing through them as you mentioned. I can sit all morning peering down into a huge basin for elk and forget that there is glass between me and everything else. I don't know if you've ever viewed from a good tripod but that's another treat in itself. Almost all of my viewing is now supported that way.


*Vee73*, thanks man. :thumbsup:


*DM51*, thanks a bunch, but if you want to talk about envy, I can sum that up by saying Maxabeam! Between you with that extraordinary kit, and XPLRN just getting his also, I'm walking around green. :sick2: 


*Karl*, you are going to love this thing!! As you can see from the beamshots, you wont be under impressed, even as a BB owner. :naughty:

*BVH*, Knowing that you've been involved with some great high power shoot offs, I'm glad to hear you say that the difference is significant. It confirms my own feelings about the light. When I saw Lux's gif photo I was surprised even after I had witnessed them both. I was thinking to myself, "was the PH40 warmed up all the way?" Of course it was but that's just a testimony to the difference. I'm not sure what Polarion's using to measure lumens but I imagine they probably have access to an Integrating Sphere. I don't know how Polarion is getting 6300 lumens out of a "50W" ballast but believe their rating.

*BlueBeam*, I'm only guessing about the PH50 vs Costco throw but I believe it would be close. I compared these two lights by eye last night on a powerline tower at 227 yards and it seems that the Costco has some throw competition now. The biggest difference was in the amount of light hitting the tower. The Costco lit up the top 1/4 of the tower, the PH40 almost lit up the whole thing along with all the houses all the way down the street, because the spill is so much greater.


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## Litbobber

Do any of you guys have any experience useing the no handle version ie PF/50?
Thats what i ordered,any input would be great.

Hope you all are enjoying your new lights!

Thanks
Brett


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## Patriot

Litbobber said:


> Do any of you guys have any experience useing the no handle version ie PF/50?
> Thats what i ordered,any input would be great.
> 
> Hope you all are enjoying your new lights!
> 
> Thanks
> Brett




I don't believe it's been held or reviewed yet. The first PH50's, purchased through the Group Buy, just shipped Thursday and the PF50 will come later.

As far as the handling of the two types goes you could refer to any of the PF40 threads through a CPF search. Here is the first thread to pop up under search:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/187640


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## GhostReaction

Paul and Adam :thumbsup:

You guys did a very good job on the PH50 review. Thank you!!

Still waiting for mine to touch down here in Singapore 

Anybody.... got both Barnburner and PH50 to do battle?


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## BVH

Anyone in the SoCal/L.A. area? Mtbkndad and a few of us may be doing an HID shoot on May 10. I've got a BB but not a PH50.


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## Patriot

GhostReaction said:


> Paul and Adam :thumbsup:
> 
> You guys did a very good job on the PH50 review. Thank you!!
> 
> Still waiting for mine to touch down here in Singapore
> 
> Anybody.... got both Barnburner and PH50 to do battle?





You're welcome Ghost. Hope you get yours soon!

*karlthev* has a BB and will also have his PH50 on Friday.


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## adamlau

*MN21 vs. PH50*

Camera: Canon SD1000
ISO Setting: 200
Lens Aperture: F2.8
Exposure: 1/8 Second
White Balance: Auto
Moon Illumination: 59 Percent
Rangefinder: TruePulse 200
Distance: 65 Yards

MN21 off Moli 2xIMR18650 *|* Polarion Helios PH50






ISO Setting: 80
Exposure: 0.8 Second
White Balance: Tungsten
Distance: 30 Yards

MN21 off Moli 2xIMR18650





ISO Setting: 80
Exposure: 0.2 Second
White Balance: Tungsten
Distance: 30 Yards

Polarion Helios PH50





*Brightness Levels Increased 25%*

MN21 off Moli 2xIMR18650 + 25% *|* Polarion Helios PH50 + 25%





ISO Setting: 80
Exposure: 0.8 Second
White Balance: Tungsten
Distance: 30 Yards

MN21 off Moli 2xIMR18650 + 25%





ISO Setting: 80
Exposure: 0.2 Second
White Balance: Tungsten
Distance: 30 Yards

Polarion Helios PH50 + 25%


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## kenster

BVH said:


> Anyone in the SoCal/L.A. area? Mtbkndad and a few of us may be doing an HID shoot on May 10. I've got a BB but not a PH50.


 
Orange County born & raised but this SoCal get together is a long way from home now.  Oh well, I hope you folks have fun!  One thing is puzzling me. :thinking: ..... L.A. aint nothin but asphalt, buildings and wall to wall people and wall to wall.... walls  so what in the world does a person do with a PH50 when they can`t get 2 feet away from another person or 10 feet from a building or structure??? Well, I am remembering LA back 20 years ago so 2 feet back then has shrunk to about .000000???:thinking: ...... :huh2: Are ya`ll livin inside each other?  Oh, so you need the bright light to see who has gotten under your skin :hairpull: and keep others at arms length as well!  PH50 works! :rock:Hehe! :tinfoil:

Seriously, hope ya`ll have a great time and let us know what you learn comparing HID`s, please.  Oh, I will edit this silly post if you folks would like me to.


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## toby_pra

WOW very nice Beamshots. This PH50 is friggin bright and to me it seems
to be much more brighter than the PH40.


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## karlthev

I'm going to see what I may be able to do in terms of beamshots for the PH50 vs the BB. I won't have the PH until late this Friday night (I hope!) and I'm watching the weather reports and, and....well, I'll do my best but, no promises I'm afraid.


Karl


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## kenster

Thought ya`ll might enjoy seeing this picture of a bright & shiny Polarion.  Unfortunetly, it`s not my PH40.  A CPF member sent me this picture when he recieved the light about a year ago. Man, I would love to get my hands on a Titanium version and give it a Kenster spit shine!  I have been trying to get my hands on a Polarion for 2-1/2 months but????? :shakehead Oh well, maybe someday someone will take my money and give me one? :candle: 

:mecry:


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## toby_pra

Whats that a monster kenster? :duck::sweat:


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## Litbobber

Thanks Patriot36
Got some insight on the PF/40.

Brett


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## cue003

Litbobber, I sent you a private message (PM).

Thanks and welcome to CPF.

Curtis


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## Patriot

I love the polished PH-40 Kenster! I truly does look like you. I'll have to save that picture too.


P.S. Ken, don't be afraid to use a few emoticons to express yourself now and then!! :nana:


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## Patriot

Adam, thanks from those additional beamshots. I'm really enjoying checking those out at the moment. The +25% exposures seem to do a really great job of representing the beam in person. My pictures were more of a relative comparison where yours are more accurate or true to life. Great job with your pictures. 

:goodjob:


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## azkey

Hello All. forgive me if I breach any forum etiquette as this is my first post. Although I wasn't part of the group buy, I did just get the PH-50 directly from Ken and had to share my excitement. No photos to post (yet), no technical information to pass along, just an everyday dad who bought a bright light for hiking, cave exploring and camping in Arizona.

I know most of you are diehard flashaholics, so I thought you might enjoy a newbie's reaction to remind you of days gone by. When we unpacked the light, my eight year old son simply said - Oh My God. When we hiked to the top of a small foothill and lit up the entire neighborhood, all I could vocalize was - Holy Sh*t. Then the community security guy started driving towards our hiking spot. Do you know how cool it is for a guy nicknamed "the softer side of Sears" to have a security guard check you out because of a flashlight?

Anyway, I hope to post some photos in the near future. My goal is to hike back down to Havasu Falls in the Grand Canyon, light it up at night, and shoot some HD video.

For anyone on the fence about purchasing, let me just say that this light, and Ken at Polarion, are absolutely incredible. Ken spent some quality time on the phone with me. He probably deals day in and out with law enforcement, military folks, search and rescue people... but he treated this newbie with respect and professionalism and guided my decision. Ken is the kind of person you want to succeed - great experience.

I'll close out my first post by letting you all know that I both admire and curse some of you. I first found the forum over a year ago and took advantage of some of the reviews on the Surefire U2. I just decided it was time to carry a light everyday and was looking for guidance. After buying that, I happened to be watching a play with my high school daughter - she was reviewing it and making notes. The low setting on the U2 was bright enough to disturb people around us. Back to the forum and I soon owned a Surefire Kroma. Of course, you all continued to haunt me. As I prepared for my second hike into the Grand Canyon, I knew I could not descend with the Petzl headlamp I used on the first trip. That's when I discovered the Lupine Wilma headlamp - had to get that. Lastly, on two recent trips, the need arose to turn night into day and I couldn't do it... so now I own the PH-50.

I am sick - really. And it's not over.

I'm like a kid on Christmas morning waiting for Surefire to release the Optimus. And I'm thinking of getting the Surefire E1B Backup - are you ready for why??? I think I need a small, dressy EDC for those times I have to wear a suit or other business attire.

Are you all happy?


----------



## Patriot

:welcome: 


Good story azkey! Thanks for posting and I'm happy that you're so in love with your new superlight. That would be great to see some of your beamshots and pictures when you get around to it. I'm also happy that you have been converted into a flashaholic by guys like me. I've always been a closet flashaholic myself but it didn't get real bad until I started reading posts here at CPF. 

Now, maybe I'll take my PH50 out and see if I can get into some trouble..


P.S. I went scouting for place near my house for some decent longer range shots with the Polarions. I found a couple and will being using at least one of them tomorrow night. 300-500-ish yards depending on where I go. More to come tomorrow night! :naughty:


----------



## dandruff

azkey said:


> I'll close out my first post by letting you all know that I both admire and curse some of you. I first found the forum over a year ago and took advantage of some of the reviews on the Surefire U2. I just decided it was time to carry a light everyday and was looking for guidance. After buying that, I happened to be watching a play with my high school daughter - she was reviewing it and making notes. The low setting on the U2 was bright enough to disturb people around us. Back to the forum and I soon owned a Surefire Kroma. Of course, you all continued to haunt me. As I prepared for my second hike into the Grand Canyon, I knew I could not descend with the Petzl headlamp I used on the first trip. That's when I discovered the Lupine Wilma headlamp - had to get that. Lastly, on two recent trips, the need arose to turn night into day and I couldn't do it... so now I own the PH-50.



You don't sound like a newbie to me!! im envious of your great collection!


----------



## james l.

Hi guys. Reporting from Malaysia. 

I just got my new PH50 and new X1 couple of days ago. The X1 are truly flawless. I just can't imagine how they could squeeze 4000lumens of light into such a small frame weighing around 1.6kilos only. 

Anyway I have a couple of questions regarding the PH50. Anyone notice the battery life of PH60 is significatnly reduced? What kind of time are you guys getting? On my fifth discharge and full recharge, I'm getting around 70mins full charge to blackout time. Anyone getting 80mins with PH40? And I notice my battery is still 4,400mah rating. Not the revised unit. Anyone's got the latest battery pack? And if so, what time are you getting?

Second thing I notice with my PH50 is, there is a faint ringing/high pitch tone around the ballast area whenever it is switched on. There is no such pitch tone on my X1. Is this a defect? Or you guys are getting this pitch as well? 

Its really hard to describe. Sort of like a constant high pitch buzz being emitted. Its not audible at arms length, more of like 2 to 3 fts away from you ear. I'm only concern as I thought it might have been a malfunction or production defect? 

Thanks guys! 

I will be comparing it with the Beast II tonight! :naughty:


----------



## SwissT

Hi,

Am getting around 65 minutes runtime with 4400 battery, new battery will be available some time in future.

My PH50 also makes ringing sound,I believe this to be normal.

Have fun


----------



## cue003

james l. said:


> Hi guys. Reporting from Malaysia.
> 
> I just got my new PH50 and new X1 couple of days ago. The X1 are truly flawless. I just can't imagine how they could squeeze 4000lumens of light into such a small frame weighing around 1.6kilos only.



Awesome on the combo. You should post up some detailed pictures of the 2 next to each other. We all have pretty much always overlooked the X1 and went straight to the brightest so it would be cool to see more comparos and pictures of the 2 siblings together.



james l. said:


> Anyway I have a couple of questions regarding the PH50. Anyone notice the battery life of PH60 is significatnly reduced? What kind of time are you guys getting? On my fifth discharge and full recharge, I'm getting around 70mins full charge to blackout time. Anyone getting 80mins with PH40? And I notice my battery is still 4,400mah rating. Not the revised unit. Anyone's got the latest battery pack? And if so, what time are you getting?



New battery capacity is not out yet. They are currently working on it as I type. Not sure of the ETA. The PH50 was tweaked at the last minute to use the same battery as the older PH40. The runtime is supposed to be around 60 min plus or minus 10%. You getting 70 min is a good thing with the battery configuration you have at this time.

Have you run down the X1? What are you getting there? How do you use each light. Interesting that you got one of each. So far, do you like one over the other? What about ergonomics etc. I know the X1 is much thicker than the PH50 but it is shorter than the PH50.



james l. said:


> Second thing I notice with my PH50 is, there is a faint ringing/high pitch tone around the ballast area whenever it is switched on. There is no such pitch tone on my X1. Is this a defect? Or you guys are getting this pitch as well?
> 
> Its really hard to describe. Sort of like a constant high pitch buzz being emitted. Its not audible at arms length, more of like 2 to 3 fts away from you ear. I'm only concern as I thought it might have been a malfunction or production defect?
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 
> I will be comparing it with the Beast II tonight! :naughty:



The whine is standard on all PH40 and now also on the newer improved PH50. It is normal. No worries there. I have had other HIDs as well that also had the whine. 

Looking forward to the photos against the Beast II tonight. That should be great shots to showcase the PH50 but more importantly to me is to see how it does against the little brother the X1. 

Welcome to CPF and please keep the pictures and feedback coming.


----------



## Patriot

Both of my PH's whine a little bit but the PH50 is slightly more noticeable. Normal operation as Cue003 stated.

Also, did you say that you were getting 70 minutes from your PH50? If so, that's really good because they were estimating 60 minutes from the PH50 with old style battery. I haven't run-time tested mine yet, but I'd be very happy with 70 minutes. That of course will only improve when the new batteries are released.


----------



## BVH

I could barely hear the whine made by my PH40 when I had it. If you think the PH 40 (and PH50 - even though I have not heard it) whines, you should listen to the Barn Burner whine. While certainly not objectionable at all, it's there. Logic would tell me the higher the Wattage output of the ballast, the louder the whine.

My 300 Watt Locator's don't whine - or at least I can't hear any whine. It's probably due to the fact that the electronics are housed in a very thick aluminum housing.


----------



## karlthev

I can't hear much of anything anything anymore except ringing in my ears! My Barn Burner may sound like a fire alarm but I just don't hear it so I suspect if my Polarion sings a tune, I won't hear it either. Too many gigs in a band I played, too many concerts and too much practice at the shooting range before ear protection was known to be a need unfortunately.:sigh: 


Karl


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## serious sam

I want one.......... dear santa..... :sigh:

Start saving ££ now..... will come back to CPF 7-8 months frm now..... I hope. Must resist buying other lights..... save save save


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## Patriot

karlthev said:


> I can't hear much of anything anything anymore except ringing in my ears! Too many gigs in a band I played, too many concerts and too much practice at the shooting range before ear protection was known to be a need




Does that also work for when liberals speak on TV and radio? I'd like to not here them....lol. I'm not yet 40 so at least part of the world I grew up in has some safety sense. About the worst thing my ears were exposed to was all the shotgunning out dove and quail hunting as a kid. That's part of the reason I don't do it any more because I don't like wearing electronic hearing protection in the field. It just takes the pleasure out of it for me.


----------



## karlthev

I'm having the devil of a time trying to sort out which is which anymore I'm sorry to say....too dang much poll watching and damned little honesty nowadays...:thumbsdow


Karl


----------



## Patriot

Maybe I should got get some daylight pictures of the place that I'm going for beamshots tonight.....:thinking:


----------



## kenster

I think the Postman should _*ALWAYS*_ ring twice!  _*MY PH50 IS AT THE POST OFFICE AND THEY ARE CLOSED!!!!!*_ :mecry: 

Funny thing, the PO opens when the sun comes up!!!! HAHA NOT!!!:ironic:


----------



## Patriot

kenster said:


> I think the Postman should _*ALWAYS*_ ring twice!  _*MY PH50 IS AT THE POST OFFICE AND THEY ARE CLOSED!!!!!*_ :mecry:
> 
> Funny thing, the PO opens when the sun comes up!!!! HAHA NOT!!!:ironic:




Ken, did yours not come by Fedex? I didn't have to sign for mine.


----------



## kenster

Patriot36 said:


> Ken, did yours not come by Fedex? I didn't have to sign for mine.


 
:wow: At 46 years old I thought I was slowing down but when I read your post, I was instantly standing on my front porch!  No box from FedEX :sigh: I believe my was sent USPS One Day but I missed the Postman. I found 3 pink slips "Missed Delivery". Senders are Photonfanatic, S. Korea???? and ------???? Since my PH50 was supposed to arrive today, the ------ I think is my PH50???? 

Does any of this make sense???  If not..........

FedEX or Mr Postman, I just want my PH50, PLEASE???  I`ll give you a big :kiss: for it! :naughty:


----------



## GhostReaction

I recieved Helios Monday but only got to fire it up yesterday and today I think I m already partially blind! :wow:


----------



## Patriot

Well, I started to get some pictures at an already alternate location this evening until being politely asked to depart by a Maricopa County Sheriff.. I was about 50 yards onto state trust land and he didn't want me there. He also pointed out the no tresspassing sign....:shrug: Anyhow, I started with the K3500 and got as far as the PH40. Although I was taking 4 pictures from each light I'm only going to post two of them. Both lights were aimed at the upside down delta shape near the middle of the tower.

K3500 focused (smoother reflector) 468 yards 






PH40 468 yards






That's if for now. Sorry for no PH50 pic tonight but I will be back out tomorrow or Thursday.


----------



## XeRay

Patriot36 said:


> I'm not sure what Polarion's using to measure lumens but I imagine they probably have access to an Integrating Sphere. I don't know how Polarion is getting 6300 lumens out of a "50W" ballast but believe their rating.


 
Not trying to split hairs here but these are the facts (I own a PH-40) It is a 40 watt output light. It produces a max of 3800 lumens or so but not 4,000 (they must round up), No real criticism justified.

If the PH-50 is outputting a true 50 watts to the bulb the physics are such on the current bulb technology that 5500 to 5700 lumens is the maximum lumens possible (not 6000 or 6300) using the best 50 watt rated bulb on the market today. They would need to provide 52-55 watts to the bulb to produce 6000 lumens. Maybe this is the case but I cannot verify since I do not own a PH-50.

The PH-40 uses a slightly modified Osram (Sylvania) standard D1S 35 watt bulb overdriven to 40 watts (no problem there). Since I have not seen the bulb in a PH-50 (I suspect they are using the same one). If this is the case, then 5300 to 5500 lumens is a more likely output at 50 watts into the bulb.

Not sure what the real story is but we have a lot of experience with performance of ballast bulb combinations at 35, 50 and 75 watt bulb input settings. As it turns out we produce closer to 9000 lumens with 75 watt input to our current matching bulb selection.

One (long) word of note, the efficiency of lumens per watt is not the same on 35, 40, 50 or 75 watt bulb inputs. 35 watt runs at 91 lumens per watt, 40 watt is about 96 lumens per watt, 50 watt is about 114 lumens per watt and 75 watt is about 120 lumens per watt. These numbers are somewhat bulb specs and quality dependant. These numbers are based on using the best performing (lumens) bulb for a given wattage. One example of this is on our 50 watt XeRay we can offer 2 bulbs a 35 watt overdriven GE bulb which produces 5500 lumens (updated number) and a Philips 50 watt rated bulb which produces 200 lumens more (that is 4 lumens per watt more). The 50 watt rated bulb costs 3.5X more and will last about 45% longer but you can do the math, its not economical. Also, 200 total lumens difference is not enough to make a significant performance variation.


----------



## Ken J. Good

Is there a smiley icon for raining on parades?

I will send your statements directly to Polarion of Korea for their comments.

I am personally not entrenched on the technical specification end of the spectrum and strongly lean to the application side of equation.
So I am not going to go tit-for-tat with you on that front.

I state/quote the numbers given to me by Polarion of Korea. I believe them and have no reason to question their integrity. Polarion of Korea has consistently shown their leadership in the HID field both in product development and quality of manufacturing.

I believe you were the same person who doubted the quality/specifications of aluminum when Polarion initially launched their product line here in the United States through our distribution channels. You had an issue with the phrase "Aircraft Grade Aluminum". I followed that post up in the public arena stating that I would get back to you and everybody else on the forum with the exact specifications. When I did not do so in accordance with your personal time schedule, you essentially went on to say that my lack of an immediate answer was a clear indication that the materials therefore must be sub par and went on to credential yourself and your product line.
If memory serves me right you did that on more than discussion board.

I then communicated with you privately that the reason it took me additional time, is that I wanted to be absolutely certain I was propagating the correct information.

Contrary to my aversion to technical specs I am going to sum up the Polarion PH50 in technical terms at this point in time.

PH40: A lotta light
PH50: A whole lotta light

Again, I am hoping Polarion of Korea can address your comments in technical terms. But then again, they may not. 

Personally I prefer head-to-head photography, feature set, material selection, quality and consistency of manufacturing, customer service pre/post sale, as a better comparative measurement for the product line.

Yes the numbers are important, but they tell only part of the story.

Bring on the lux meters....




XeRay said:


> Not trying to split hairs here but these are the facts (I own a PH-40) It is a 40 watt output light. It produces a max of 3800 lumens or so but not 4,000 (they must round up), No real criticism justified.
> 
> If the PH-50 is outputting a true 50 watts to the bulb the physics are such on the current bulb technology that 5500 to 5700 lumens is the maximum lumens possible (not 6000 or 6300) using the best 50 watt rated bulb on the market today. They would need to provide 52-55 watts to the bulb to produce 6000 lumens. Maybe this is the case but I cannot verify since I do not own a PH-50.
> 
> The PH-40 uses a slightly modified Osram (Sylvania) standard D1S 35 watt bulb overdriven to 40 watts (no problem there). Since I have not seen the bulb in a PH-50 (I suspect they are using the same one). If this is the case, then 5300 to 5500 lumens is a more likely output at 50 watts into the bulb.
> 
> Not sure what the real story is but we have a lot of experience with performance of ballast bulb combinations at 35, 50 and 75 watt bulb input settings. As it turns out we produce closer to 9000 lumens with 75 watt input to our current matching bulb selection.
> 
> One (long) word of note, the efficiency of lumens per watt is not the same on 35, 40, 50 or 75 watt bulb inputs. 35 watt runs at 91 lumens per watt, 40 watt is about 96 lumens per watt, 50 watt is about 114 lumens per watt and 75 watt is about 120 lumens per watt. These numbers are somewhat bulb specs and quality dependant. These numbers are based on using the best performing (lumens) bulb for a given wattage. One example of this is on our 50 watt XeRay we can offer 2 bulbs a 35 watt overdriven GE bulb which produces 5500 lumens (updated number) and a Philips 50 watt rated bulb which produces 200 lumens more (that is 4 lumens per watt more). The 50 watt rated bulb costs 3.5X more and will last about 45% longer but you can do the math, its not economical. Also, 200 total lumens difference is not enough to make a significant performance variation.


----------



## cue003

So this sounds like we should have a PH50 vs. an XeRay 50. We already know the BarnBurner is not an option due to its massive output. But I guess it could be clear that if XeRay50 is 5700 lumens and PH50 is stating 6300 lumens then Ken may be right that we need to just fire them up next to each other and take some pictures etc and see if one is "brighter" than the other. If the XeRay is the same output as the PH50 then we can dial the number back to 5700 or so lumens. If it is brighter then we can assume the number may very well be accurate at 6300... or may be even more conservative at 6000. 

Who has a XeRay50 to send my way? I will pay for shipping both ways to check this out.

Thanks

Curtis


----------



## Patriot

Hey Dan, thanks for checking in on this thread to dispute a few lumens but I was just thinking that there are several of us who would rather have an update on your "bomb" thread a few rows down. We're all pretty good at handling the truth here at CPF so if it's not ready yet, we'll all live. 


Ken, no rain on this parade brother! :twothumbs Frankly I don't care whether my Polarions are 5800 or 6200 lumens. All I know is that the light is fabulous and that little 3.5" reflector was almost step for step with my 9" reflectored Costco HID last night. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I'll be out for some more comparison photos tonight if the wind settles down a bit. Otherwise there is just too much particulate in the air. It looks like snow when I'm trying to photograph.


Cue003, I'm in PM contact with one of our members with a Xe-50 and a Canon D10. We were discussing camera setting info and he's going to try for some pictures soon. He as also has a BB. His personal opinion was that the PH50 output more light than the Xe50 but would not beat the BB....obviously. My thought is that the PH50 will likely out throw the Xe50 also...we'll see. I know he's reading this thread so if he wants to disclose his ID, then I'll let him do that. In any case it looks like we'll be getting some comparative results within the week. I'll be out tonight or tomorrow for some really well done PH40 vs PH50 beamshots.


----------



## Ken J. Good

I am in process of getting the actual certifications from Polarion's independent test lab. I will post them as PDF's when I get them.

In the meantime I am going to resurrect some data/photos/comments regarding the XeVision 50-watt.

See: http://polarion-usa.com/50watt-compare/KenshiroHID2.html

I used the information, tests and photos by permission. Originally tested Jan '06.

Note Polarion's first 35-watt HID (Model P1) claiming *3,400* lumens outperforms the XeVision 50-watt claiming *5,700* lumens.

Take a good comparative look at the wide angle shots. These images tell the story.

Personally I would LOVE to see a PH50 against this particular 50-watt light using proper photography techniques. It would be no-contest.

Also see CPF Thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/102566


----------



## data_lore

Corrrrrrr, catfight! kewl  Let's have another shootout? The Barnburner maybe should be one of the candidates?

I don't have one of these MEGA HIDs but my poxy little N30 suits me fine tbh! If I had many thousands of dollars to spend, I'd choose not one but ALL of them 


(And I'm NOT and never have been in the SAS )


----------



## XeRay

Ken J. Good said:


> I am in process of getting the actual certifications from Polarion's independent test lab. I will post them as PDF's when I get them.
> 
> In the meantime I am going to resurrect some data/photos/comments regarding the XeVision 50-watt.
> 
> See: http://polarion-usa.com/50watt-compare/KenshiroHID2.html
> 
> I used the information, tests and photos by permission. Originally tested Jan '06.
> 
> Note Polarion's first 35-watt HID (Model P1) claiming *3,400* lumens outperforms the XeVision 50-watt claiming *5,700* lumens.
> 
> Take a good comparative look at the wide angle shots. These images tell the story.
> 
> Personally I would LOVE to see a PH50 against this particular 50-watt light using proper photography techniques. It would be no-contest.
> 
> Also see CPF Thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/102566


 
I was not looking to rain on your parade or the performance of the Polarion Products or get into a "pissing" match. The fact is they are great performers and I am not trying to compare them to the XeRay models. Accurate bulb lumens efficacy reporting is all I am about in this thread.

We are talking about Bulb lumens in my Posting not lumens out the front which are more important. Beyond a doubt your reflector / optics are superior to the current XeRay. The fact is optics cannot be 110 +% efficient if you get my point. If in fact the Polarion PH-50 will outperform the XeRay 50 watt it is because of optics only or The PH-50 is pushing more than 50 watts to the bulb or a combination of both.

It is hard for companies not to "play" the numbers game but as can be seen from all the Asian made stuff out there the numbers frequently are much higher than reality. It is important that on CPF the numbers are accurate.


----------



## Patriot

Ken J. Good said:


> See: http://polarion-usa.com/50watt-compare/KenshiroHID2.html
> 
> Note Polarion's first 35-watt HID (Model P1) claiming *3,400* lumens outperforms the XeVision 50-watt claiming *5,700* lumens.
> 
> Take a good comparative look at the wide angle shots. These images tell the story.
> 
> Personally I would LOVE to see a PH50 against this particular 50-watt light using proper photography techniques. It would be no-contest.
> 
> Also see CPF Thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/102566






I created this gif from those smaller images but it gives a reasonable idea of how they old P1 and Xe-50 compare. I'm not sure if the P1 is outperforming the Xe-50 because the beams are very different. In any case I feel they're very close in overall output with the P1 putting more light closer and the Xe-50 putting more light at the target tree. The P1 also has a slightly hotter spot directly in the center of the tree. It's a very unique beam shape!








Here is a slightly larger PH40 vs PH50 gif


----------



## LuxLuthor

This is obviously a thread discussing Polarion's latest PH-50, and it has almost exclusively been Pro-PH-50, which is fine, and deserving of enthusiasm. I can also see XeRay's intention to question accurately reported lumens is useful, but has a flavor of raining on the Polarion roll out parade in this thread.

As was the case with several previous shootouts, the reflector quality and design physics make it difficult to compare "apples to apples" with beamshots. I remember the variation between the revision models of XeVision's bulbs & reflectors, as well as the bezel rotational focus used....leading to a complete re-shoot.

In short, there are significant differences in spotlight performances based solely upon reflector issues, that must be taken into account. It seems disingenuous to overly stress the "competitive sanctity" of bulb lumen accuracy....if the overall products deliver divergent beam pattern outputs.

Patriot's latest photos are a perfect illustration of beam shape differences. In his top gif image, one could make a case that the total lumen outputs could be the same, but distributed in different patterns. 

I think it is important to underscore significant differences in beam outputs, such as XeRay 50W vs. 75W BB....or PH-40 vs. PH-50. Splitting hairs on precise bulb lumens does not seem crucial when reflector design/quality fluctuations between manufacturers can have its own influence on beam output.


----------



## XeRay

cue003 said:


> So this sounds like we should have a PH50 vs. an XeRay 50. We already know the BarnBurner is not an option due to its massive output. But I guess it could be clear that if XeRay50 is 5700 lumens and PH50 is stating 6300 lumens then Ken may be right that we need to just fire them up next to each other and take some pictures etc and see if one is "brighter" than the other. If the XeRay is the same output as the PH50 then we can dial the number back to 5700 or so lumens. If it is brighter then we can assume the number may very well be accurate at 6300... or may be even more conservative at 6000.


 
That would prove nothing because of the superior optics quality of the Polarion models. Again, I see no point in comparing them to assess lumens. Lumens output are identical from a particular bulb using ANY ballast brands set to output 50 watts AC to the bulb. The Polarion-store website shows the same Osram D1S bulb is being used for both the 40 and 50 watt (just discovered that). We do the same thing with a GE bulb. We also sell that Osram D1S bulb. It performs almost exactly as the Philips D1S and is a quality bulb. The GE used on the XeRay is also similar but a D2S with the igniter in the ballast. All 3 of these will perform very closely driven at the same wattage. The best lumens performers at 50 watts are the Philips DI-50 new or old style. They will produce 200-300 more lumens than any standard 35 watt bulb being overdriven. The GE bulb used in the XeRay 50 watt produces about 5500 lumens not 5700.

Believe it or not I totally respect the real life performance of the PH-40 and 50, they are in a class by them selves. Including the obvious packaging quality and superior optics they are not doing any special or new magic with the bulb or ballast. I wish some neutral party on CPF had an Integrating Sphere to verify the numbers.

The reality is that the lumens out the end is what matters and we all know that the Polarions do extremely well in this department. This is true no mater what numbers are claimed. I only jumped in when someone else commented on the accuracy of the claimed lumens numbers. I did the quick math and the math does not work. This is an established technology with established performance capabilities. We have designed custom ballast / bulb systems for Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, BAE and General Dynamics. We do have some credibility to make these comments. 

We are not going to take any business from Polarion by these comments, in fact the reverse may be true. The current XeRay products and the Polarions are very different and should not frequently be competitors in the market place.


----------



## Patriot

That makes sense *Dan*. Maybe the PH50 is more than 50W. If we knew that then it would explain the advertised lumen claims.


Good points *Lux* and speaking of real comparisons here they are:

PH40 504 yards 






PH50 504 yards





PH40 vs PH50 504 yards gif.






PH40 504 yards zoomed





PH50 504 yards zoomed





PH40 vs. PH50 504 yards zoomed gif. This comparison is less representative of the light difference compared to the wider angle gif above.






All Pics were taken at F4.0 8" ISO100

Although the wide angle shots look like they're aimed low, they're not. It's just the effect of bright spill light hitting the tall brush at 85 yards. 

Also, the wide angle pics are slightly over exposed by not by much...maybe 10%-15% A 6" exposure would have been just about perfect with that camera.

The zoomed shots are slightly under exposed. When looking through a low magnification binocular there was quite a bit more light hitting the tower than what is seen in the pictures.

One more note, the air was holding an abundance of particulate matter. It looked like it was raining dust when the lights were on. I even questioned whether or not the pictures would turn out. Luckily having the camera about 6 feet to the left of the lights reduced the white-out effect. I'm sure it had and effect on how much light was traveling downrange too.


----------



## adamlau

Reminds me of controversies surrounding published horsepower numbers from manufacturers. Do exact horsepower numbers really matter where there are other factors which influence the overall driving experience? Yes and no. Your counterpoint is appreciated, Dan  .


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## DM51

Very useful pics, P36. Those rotating gifs are superb for comparison purposes.


----------



## Patriot

Thanks David. Tonight I'm going to focus on some picture that make use of more of the beam. I'm going to try to get some shining into a valley or against a mountain. I think the difference will be even greater.


----------



## james l.

Cue thanks for the welcome.  

My business involves civil engineering. Very often we have to work overtime and access/survey sites during the night time. Some projects involves tunnels and highways. 

My initial battery run for PH50 of 70mins is inaccurate on my part. I have since redone it 3 times and its giving me approx 61 to 62mins. I have to carry spare battery for this reason. Runtimes are definately too short at 60mins and I'm looking forward to the higher cap batteries. Anyone know what it would be rated at? 6,000 mah? 

As for PH50 and X1's comparison, X1 is definately much smaller. I actually personally preferred the X1 for its small size and it has a perfect 50/50 handle balance as compare to PH's 60/40 handle balance. The battery run for X1 is approx 80mins for 6 tries. There is no doubt PH50 will out throw and out flood the X1, there's no comparison honestly. But the extra battery time and weight makes it the winner for me. Using my wife's baking scale, X1 weights in at 2663g while PH50 weight in at 2846g. Its a tad heavier but believe me, its noticeable. Could be partly due to slightly imbalanced front heavy of the PH50. 

I've actually bought 3 X1's and 1 PH50 so far from Polarion. Use to wield that heavy Beast II everywhere. I had to use a strap for it. With both Polarions, I didn't bother with the slings as the handle is more then comfortable enough for me. The beast has no handle, so go figure how to handle that thing without a sling/strap. 

As for PH50, it outthrows anything I've ever used before and it even outflood Beast II, which I've always considered to have the best flood area. I have not got the time to do any beamshots yet but I'll just post some photos of size difference. 





While doing some battery runs. PH50 just ran out at 61mins 






X1 just ran out at 78mins. The other X1 ran out 2mins later. 






Length difference is quite noticeable






Standing shots.






Personally I prefered X1's smooth handle over PH's contoured handle. X1 has got superior weight balance. The handle doesnt feel like its being connected from the rear of the unit. Compared to X1, the PH50 is front heavy. This could be due to PH's 50mm longer body. 






Left's PH and right's X1.






PH50 batt left and X1 batt right. I have to hold up X1's battery as it is much shorter then PH's for fair comparison. 






X1's red PCB. 






PH50's red PCB. They are both almost indentical. 


As mentiond earlier, for the time being until PH50's battery improves, my preference is toward X1. It is around 180g lighter, perfectly balanced at the handle and runs 20mins longer. PH50 on the other hand should be rename SuperBeast. The output of this thing is just outrageous! Its ridiculous. It shines reinforced concrete up like a mirror. It actually hurts my eye at 20meter's height looking up from below the flyover highway. Given if the battery is improved to 90mins with the new battery pack, I would without a doubt go with PH50. The current 60mins is just cutting it to close for me. My nightly spotlight usage is usually 2 to 3 hours. I do carry a spare SF L5 Lumamax Digitial as a backup. Waiting for new SF Optimus and Invictus LED to arrive now. Also ordered a SF Hid Arclight that runs on 16 CR123A :devil:. Will compare them later. 

Sorry for the long ramble. I will try post some beamshots soon against Beast II if time permits. My wife hates my flashlight. She was so **** I used her $150 baking digital scale to weight my Polarions lol!  Cheers guys!


----------



## BVH

Ramble away as much as you like! I enjoy reading detailed posts.


----------



## adamlau

james l. said:


> My initial battery run for PH50 of 70mins is inaccurate on my part.


The runtime of the PH50 is currently rated at 60 minutes +/- 10%.


----------



## cmacclel

Ken J. Good said:


> I am in process of getting the actual certifications from Polarion's independent test lab. I will post them as PDF's when I get them.
> 
> In the meantime I am going to resurrect some data/photos/comments regarding the XeVision 50-watt.
> 
> See: http://polarion-usa.com/50watt-compare/KenshiroHID2.html
> 
> I used the information, tests and photos by permission. Originally tested Jan '06.
> 
> Note Polarion's first 35-watt HID (Model P1) claiming *3,400* lumens outperforms the XeVision 50-watt claiming *5,700* lumens.
> 
> Take a good comparative look at the wide angle shots. These images tell the story.
> 
> Personally I would LOVE to see a PH50 against this particular 50-watt light using proper photography techniques. It would be no-contest.
> 
> Also see CPF Thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/102566


 

My XeVision I thought was brighter than my Helios. Though they where hard to compare as the Helios had a much wider beam. The XeRay through noticable farther.

Pics here Taken in Nov06

http://public.fotki.com/cmacclel/lights-1/beamshots-10-11-06/

Mac


----------



## Patriot

Gif image made from Mac's Nov. 06 photos.


Images courtesy of cmacclel







Well, they're completely different beam styles. Hard to judge the overall output but obviously the Xe50 is a higher spec. If it's brighter I guess it's no surprise. One thing I am noticing is that the two reference lights to the middle left, dim somewhat with the Polarion picture. On right one changes from 3 pixels to 1 pixel but it could be a reflective surface which it just reflecting differently. The left most light also dims and it looks like and actual light of some type. Do you recall what those highlights were Mac?


----------



## DM51

That gif is not a useful comparison at all, IMO. 

The problem with it is that the Xe50 beam is centered on the bottom of the large tree, while the PH40 beam is quite clearly centered way short of the tree, on the grass.

You can see that by looking at the top of the beam in each light. The Xe50 has a tighter beam, but it illuminates the tree to about half way up it. The PH40 is directed so far below the horizontal that despite its wider beam, it doesn't even reach that high.

There doesn't seem much point in a distance shot like that where the object in the distance (in this case the tree) is only caught in the spill of the beam.


----------



## cmacclel

DM51 said:


> That gif is not a useful comparison at all, IMO.
> 
> The problem with it is that the Xe50 beam is centered on the bottom of the large tree, while the PH40 beam is quite clearly centered way short of the tree, on the grass.
> 
> You can see that by looking at the top of the beam in each light. The Xe50 has a tighter beam, but it illuminates the tree to about half way up it. The PH40 is directed so far below the horizontal that despite its wider beam, it doesn't even reach that high.
> 
> There doesn't seem much point in a distance shot like that where the object in the distance (in this case the tree) is only caught in the spill of the beam.


 
All lights had the hotest spot of the beam aimed at the base of the tree. Radio was there with me when we did these. Maybe they could be off a little but nothing like your referring to.

Mac


----------



## cue003

james l. said:


> Cue thanks for the welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While doing some battery runs. PH50 just ran out at 61mins
> 
> 
> .......



Awesome photos for sure James. question for you. Are your X1s the new 40W configuration? One light lights noticeable brighter in the picture. Would be cool for you to do that same shot with all three lights turned on. The beam profile looks cool against your hard wood floors.

MY LIGHT WAS WAITING FOR ME WHEN I GOT HOME TONIGHT!!!!! AWESOME. I haven't even turned it on yet. It is on the charger.  Now the photos from Jamees has me wondering about the X1 and if I should get that light.

Curtis


----------



## cue003

Patriot, you are doing a hell of a job and this thread has turned into a masterpiece. I know it is no comparision but I am liking the looks of that X1. I need to get my hands on one to try vs the PH50 just for ergonormics before I spend another crapload on the X1.


----------



## BVH

Curtis, quit posting in this thread until you come back with beamshots! Whats amata you?:nana:


----------



## HIDSGT

Seems considerably brighter then the 40.


----------



## Patriot

The full aluminum tail cap arrived today from the Fenix Store. Here it is:












The blem, there is one other smaller one not pictured. As you can see, this is greatly enlarged to show the detail of the blem. It's not noticable on the light and has to be searched for in order to see.





Slight body gap when tightened. I guess this is ok.....?





This cap is a very solid chunk of aluminum. The light is heavier now as indicated by the scale. Old weight was 4.05. Yes, you can feel the difference but it's a solid difference.






One side note; It was necessary for me to thoroughly clean the threads in the tailcap because of a horrible dragging feeling and associated screech when I screwed it on for the first time. Even though it was well lubed from the Fenix Store, there was some aluminum bits lodged in the threads. After cleaning with alcohol and a cloth, then re-lubing ever thing, it operates smooth as glass. 


*Ken*, if you're reading this, please let us know if this body gap is normal for this tail cap. Thank you.


*DM51*, now I just need you to take it down to 200m for me to test it.  
P.S. You'll have plenty of light down there!


----------



## Patriot

cue003 said:


> Patriot, you are doing a hell of a job and this thread has turned into a masterpiece. I know it is no comparision but I am liking the looks of that X1. I need to get my hands on one to try vs the PH50 just for ergonormics before I spend another crapload on the X1.




Thanks Curtis, but just remember it was your idea!  It's been a really fun thread. I'll be out tomorrow or Saturday evening for the most serious beamshots yet. 

You were talking about the X1 and I think the old X1 would compliment the PH50 nicely. You'd have one with outstanding run-time, the other with outstanding output. I'm considering selling my PH40 to some lucky person and getting the older X1.

One more thing.....ditto to what BVH said in post #94 :nana:







> *james I.
> *Given if the battery is improved to 90mins with the new battery pack, I would without a doubt go with PH50


James, the battery pack won't be improving by that much. The new pack will provide run-time in the 70 minute range. I guess 15% is actually a nice improvement though.

Btw...great pictures and I appreciated all of your "rambling." Please ramble all you want because it was great info!!


----------



## Patriot

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DM51*
> 
> 
> _That gif is not a useful comparison at all, IMO.
> 
> The problem with it is that the Xe50 beam is centered on the bottom of the large tree, while the PH40 beam is quite clearly centered way short of the tree, on the grass.
> 
> You can see that by looking at the top of the beam in each light. The Xe50 has a tighter beam, but it illuminates the tree to about half way up it. The PH40 is directed so far below the horizontal that despite its wider beam, it doesn't even reach that high.
> 
> There doesn't seem much point in a distance shot like that where the object in the distance (in this case the tree) is only caught in the spill of the beam._






*cmacclel*


> All lights had the hotest spot of the beam aimed at the base of the tree. Radio was there with me when we did these. Maybe they could be off a little but nothing like your referring to.
> Mac


Here is a gif with a beam reference line from the hottest spot to the edge of the picture where the clearly visible beams are emanating from. I still believe the picture is useful, it's just that there are some minor aiming differences and major beamshape differences. Also, a quick reminder that the PH40-50 corona is slighty softer near the top. This is something that I've seen in my two lights and every other PH series beamshot. This fact, in conjunction with a slightly different aim could account for the combined effect in these reference shots.


----------



## GhostReaction

James your post really makes me wanna X1. Thanks for posting the side by side photo. 
If on current batt the X1 runs for 80 mins I ll assume if ever there is a high cap. batts for X1 it will push the runtime to 90~100mins :rock:
Ok now I really think I need a X1; and 40watt would be plenty enough for me 

James just a quick request: could you post a a picture of the X1 and also the PH50 in hand.

......

P36 gif: Very difficult to judge which light produce more lumens. One has more spill and the other more throw. 
Having owned a Barn Burner, I do feel that the PH50 is not far behind in overall output. (Solely IMHO, based on ceiling bounce)

Note: I no longer have the B.B. to do a side by side.


----------



## karlthev

I will be home tonight and will finally (!) get to see my new PH50! I am going to try to get a camera which will allow me some manual shots (my point and shoot does not) although I surely won't be up to the level of some of you gentlemen. I'm also hoping for no rain but the weather has been a bit crazy up here in NE Pa. this past year so we'll see.


Karl


----------



## james l.

Thanks for the warm welcome guys!  Now I feel right at home. Was concern my rambling could turn some of you off! 

Cue: I do believe my X1 is the 40watt model (Edit: Ken clarified it is a 35watt model) . I didn't really check. I can't be sure, only Ken could answer that I suppose. I ordered it through him too. Superb delivery timing and excellent communications from him. 

Patriot: I was truly hoping to get around 90mins. I would say anything below 90mins at this point is a high tradeoff for anything else. Battery technology is truly lacking and behind other developments. Where are the promised FUEL CELLS that supposely to power laptops for 1 week? ..... 

Ghost: I'm definately getting 80mins for my X1. Assuming its 40watt (35 watt in fact) model I would say its hella good with 80mins now. Sadly my PH50 runs for 61 to 62mins only. 

But make no mistakes guy, if you are going for firepower, there is no way you trade a PH50 for a X1. As I mentioned before, there is just no comparison at all, PH50 is a total different ball game, class of its own. 

I personally on the other hand, depends heavily on battery run time. My usage consist of night surveys of around 120mins to 160mins. With 80mins X1 I would only need 1 spare batts while with PH50 I would need 2 spare batts or use my 120lumen Surefire L5 for 40mins. Its too much of a trade off thus I am forced to settle with X1 for now until PH50's battery improves. I truly depends on your usage. If your usage aren't that long, definatley settle for PH50. Another reason to go for X1 as I mentioned is the ergonomics. X1 definately feels more balanced the PH50. Carrying either one for 2 hours non stop without a strap, I would definately go with the lighter and more balance X1. 

Here are some requested pics. I'm still unable to do any beamshots. Been raining 5th consecutive night here in Malaysia now. Go figure. :shrug:






Top two are identical X1 and bottom is PH50





Same as above but with forced flash. 





Left and center is X1. Right PH50. Notice center X1's beam sway to the other side. This is not off-centered lamp alignment. I just didn't line the centre X1 up correctly. 





Same shot with forced flash. 





Handshot with PH50. I'm 5'11 asian. So roughly you could guess my hand size. 





Handshot with X1. 

If you're one who could settle slightly less lumens for ergonimics and 20mins more batt now, I would highly recommend the X1. It also 500 bucks cheaper. :twothumbs

If you require absolute firepower and bragging rights, there is NO ALTERNATIVE. PH50 period. 

You can't go wrong with either one anyway. I'll did try to compare it up with my Beast II but my colleague has taken it outstation with him for some topo survey. Will get it done someday when he returns it. Cheers guys!

(Edit: I repeat my X1's are 35watt model with 80mins runtime.)


----------



## TheGreyEminence

Thank you very much for those great pictures! Good Job!:twothumbs
I can´t wait ´till i get my PH50 from fenix-store....
*Something* tells me i made a good choice 


Regards...


----------



## Patriot

Nice pictures james. Well, you must really be looking forward to the newest, even more compact Polarion that's in the works! I know that I sure am anticipating it. I'd love to see a mini-30W-35W Polarion with 90 minute run-time. That would be the ultimate backpacker's lumen cannon. That reminds me, I think I'll go revive that thread if I can find it.


----------



## Patriot

I got to looking at my new aluminum tail cap and was wondering about the small gap between the body and the cap. I'm still trying to figure out why it doesn't seat that last millimeter or so. That lead me to my curiosity of what makes it waterproof and it's really not the cap seating against the body that makes it waterproof, it's the o-ring of course. I was inspecting the o-ring on the PH50 and noticed that there was a secondary groove behind the first and wondered why there wasn't also an o-ring there. I decided to go find one for it. I went up to Ace Hardware and they allowed me to open a few packages in order to find the ring that fit the best. It turned out to be a #37. I believe it was 1 7/8" x 3/32," if I remember correctly.

Here is a picture with it installed in the second groove. It's slightly higher than the Polarion O-ring up front, but just enough to get it a nice snug fit. I've had the cap on and off several times and the o-ring is staying in place.





Here is the #37 and its packaging:






This probably isn't necessary for anything short of deep diving, which I don't even do, but I thought it would be a nice touch and it only cost 75 cents.


----------



## DM51

LOL, looks like you have the world's supply of O-ring grease on those threads there. 

Very good idea to put in the 2nd O-ring, especially as the cap will obviously be unscrewed regularly, and the 2nd O-ring will be a double measure of safety.

The body join on the PH40, right behind the switch, has only one O-ring (and no room for a 2nd one). I assume this is the same for the PH50?


----------



## BVH

Patriot, don't give them any ideas about not producing the mini "FIFTY" Watt (or multi-mode) not just 30 or 35 Watt. Us power mongers must be satisfied!! 

The Heck With Runtime, I Want To Hold The Sun In My Hands!


----------



## Patriot

DM51 said:


> LOL, looks like you have the world's supply of O-ring grease on those threads there.
> 
> Very good idea to put in the 2nd O-ring, especially as the cap will obviously be unscrewed regularly, and the 2nd O-ring will be a double measure of safety.
> 
> The body join on the PH40, right behind the switch, has only one O-ring (and no room for a 2nd one). I assume this is the same for the PH50?




Haha.....yeah, the o-ring came out of the package all chalky so I overdid it a bit because I didn't know how tight it was going to be. It is indeed working well though. 

Here is a less messy picture showing the o-ring properly seated:





Geeez David, I feel kinda dumb but I'm trying to find the body join on the PH40 right behind the switch. How am I not seeing it ??? 






> *BVH*
> Patriot, don't give them any ideas about not producing the mini "FIFTY" Watt (or multi-mode) not just 30 or 35 Watt. Us power mongers must be satisfied!!


Easy there carbon arc man.....LOL! Given the size of the PH series battery and knowing that it's only providing 60 minutes with a "50W" ballast. I'm wondering how much smaller they can go and still provide barely acceptable run-time on anything higher than 35W...? I kinda already regard the X1 and PH50 as "masterblasters" for their given volume. I know what you mean though, I'd love to have a micro Polarion with variable output, and maybe a 2"-2.5" reflector. It just seems that we are stuck with the laws of physics until the next battery technology is established. Same old story with us light guys huh.


----------



## Ken J. Good

james l,

The X1's you received are 35-watt X1's.
If you had 40-watt X1's you would be getting 70 minute runtimes.

If you read the detailed email exchanges, the proforma invoice and commercial invoice sent to your purchasing department, they state 35-watt X1's.

I just want to make the abundantly clear so nobody takes the ball and runs in the wrong direction with it.

The body join seam, is not easily identified as the body design blends/hides it well.

Open these lights at this seam at your own risk. There is no practical reason to do so unless you are planning on modding the light.

A Behind the Curve Revelation:
Polarion of Korea has never formally developed an owners manual for the X1 or the Helios series of lights. We have a really nice one for the P2, but not for these systems. :thinking:

In the meantime I just put a very small instruction sheet together.

You can download it HERE if required.

Best to everybody.


----------



## cyberpunk

Oh my h*ll - so _this_ is what SureFire M6 fans graduate up to.

My jaw is on the floor, and my wallet has run away.


----------



## Patriot

Thanks for that PDF link Ken. I've printed it and I'll stick it in my Polarion case under the lid.


----------



## karlthev

Well, I made it home and found my PH50!! Nice, very nice! Everything I'd hoped for and more I'd say! The aluminum cap looks fine by me as well. Was Out for about 10 minutes or so and had the PH50 and the BB but, not nearly enough room for me to give any indication of comparison except to say that the Polarion is really instant on!!! I'm giving some though to where I can go and, as I ve been saying, whose camera I can rustle up to take some shots. 
Got the info on the operation Ken, thanks!

Karl


----------



## Patriot

I'm glad that you like it so far Karl. I'm looking forward to your take on everything after you settle in with it a bit.

I took some good beamshots tonight but wont be posting them until tomorrow. I even got a couple at 956 yards!! Both Polarions were visible on the mountainside at that distance but the PH50 was extraordinary! It was so bright on the mountain even to the naked eye that I must have rechecked the range 3 or 4 times with the Leica. Anyhow. I'll get those sorted out hopefully post them by mid day tomorrow.


----------



## james l.

Ken J. Good said:


> james l,
> 
> The X1's you received are 35-watt X1's.
> If you had 40-watt X1's you would be getting 70 minute runtimes.
> 
> If you read the detailed email exchanges, the proforma invoice and commercial invoice sent to your purchasing department, they state 35-watt X1's.
> 
> I just want to make the abundantly clear so nobody takes the ball and runs in the wrong direction with it.
> 
> The body join seam, is not easily identified as the body design blends/hides it well.
> 
> Open these lights at this seam at your own risk. There is no practical reason to do so unless you are planning on modding the light.
> 
> A Behind the Curve Revelation:
> Polarion of Korea has never formally developed an owners manual for the X1 or the Helios series of lights. We have a really nice one for the P2, but not for these systems. :thinking:
> 
> In the meantime I just put a very small instruction sheet together.
> 
> You can download it HERE if required.
> 
> Best to everybody.


 
Thanks for the clarification Ken. My purchasing departmet never mentioned to me whether its a 35w or 40w model and I just went to assume that it is the latest 40w model since it was just shipped recently. 

My apologies or the wrong info guys. I would like to clarify its a 35watt model and thus giving me the 80mins runtime. 

Cheers!

Ps: Ken, any info on what the new high cap batts would be rated at? Care to speculate a bit? :naughty:


----------



## adamlau

*Mini-HID vs. MN61 vs. PH50 vs. Incandescent Lighting Fixtures (890 Total Watts)*

Camera: Canon SD1000
ISO Setting: 80
Lens Aperture: F2.8
Exposure: 0.4 Seconds
White Balance: Tungsten

Mini-HID (MOP) (tailstanding with beam centered on the ceiling)





MN61 off 3x17670 (tailstanding with beam centered on the ceiling)





Polarion PH50 (tailstanding with beam centered on the ceiling)





Incandescent Lighting Fixtures (frosted flood lamps within recessed cans and sconces)





*Brightness Levels Increased 25%*

Mini-HID (MOP) (tailstanding with beam centered on the ceiling) + 25%





MN61 off 3x17670 (tailstanding with beam centered on the ceiling) + 25%





Polarion PH50 (tailstanding with beam centered on the ceiling) + 25%





Incandescent Lighting Fixtures (frosted flood lamps within recessed cans and sconces) + 25%


----------



## adamlau




----------



## adamlau

*MN61 vs. PH50*

Camera: Canon SD1000
Settings: Automatic


Polarion PH50 *|* MN61 off 3x17670





*Brightness Level Increased 25%*

Polarion PH50 + 25% *|* MN61 off 3x17670 + 25%


----------



## DM51

Patriot36 said:


> I'm trying to find the body join on the PH40 right behind the switch. How am I not seeing it ???


It's immediately behind the switch, as in the pic below.

As Ken says, there's probably no need ever to open it. It just joins the battery tube to the main part of the light.


----------



## karlthev

Adam, which of the lamps you have pictured is in my new PH50?


Karl


----------



## Patriot

Ok, thanks *David*, I can see it now. That is on precision fit though ...wow! Thanks for taking the picture and pointing it out because I never would have seen it.



* Adam*, great job with your newest set of pictures. I like the looking inside through the window concept. It really gives a different perspective. I think your set is missing one picture though in the non-25% pics. I see the mini, the MN61, and the incan fixture, but not PH50. I could be crazy though too... Please let me know if I'm loosing my marbles.


----------



## adamlau

*Patriot36:* I wanted to do a take on traditional ceiling bounce tests. The shot of the PH50 was always there  . 
*karlthev:* The lamp appears to be a filtered 66144 35W PK32D-2 FS1 modified with a four-pin, J1A-type pigtail to the ballast.

Camera: Canon SD1000
ISO Setting: 100
Lens Aperture: F2.8
Exposure: 0.5 Second
White Balance: Day Light
Distance: 200-400 Yards


----------



## karlthev

Re: bulb Adam. I thought so!


Karl


----------



## GhostReaction

James thank you for the picture post. The X1 does indeed look more balanced and suit your hands 

Adam that ceiling bounce is amazing. Those who tried might agree with me that the Helios is very glaring when used indoors; I m not complaining :nana:


----------



## Patriot

Ken J. Good said:


> A Behind the Curve Revelation:
> Polarion of Korea has never formally developed an owners manual for the X1 or the Helios series of lights. We have a really nice one for the P2, but not for these systems. :thinking:
> 
> In the meantime I just put a very small instruction sheet together.
> 
> You can download it HERE if required.
> 
> Best to everybody.





Ken, I noticed that those PDF instructions say to send the light back to Polarion in the event that the bulb fails or breaks. Is that really necessary though? It appears that there are PDF bulb replacement instructions available from Polarion here: 

http://www.polarion-store.com/pd_helios_replacement_hid.cfm


Thanks,


Paul


----------



## Lips

.



Man, Loving these Pics and all the Info!!!



Gotta put *$10* bucks on the Zeray 50w blowing away the old Polarion 35w in every way (in-spite of the old pics!) and more total output & throw than the PF40. I can't see the PH50 keeping up with the 75 watt BarnBurner in total output or hot-spot but hope the upcoming shot-out (*?*) will give us some definitive info... 

Love the PF40 and incredibly jealous not have the PF50, maybe soon!!!



Cheers!

.


----------



## Patriot

I was wondering when you'd show up Lips! :wave: I was kinda surprised that you weren't part of the GB. Like you, I'm also eager to see the PH50 and the Xe50. I'll bet they're close. Of course seeing it with the BB would be good for kicks too. 

Thanks for the gif inspirations so long ago. They've come in handy in this thread. Thanks Lux for thinking of it here.

Paul


----------



## BVH

Your wish is our command - and then some.


----------



## Ken J. Good

As far a the lamp replacement in the instructions, I probably should put in the 2 options:

a. If you want to do it yourself: Read this
b. If you don't, send it here.

Thanx for the catch. I will update my instruction sheet.


----------



## Joe_torch

Typically, how long does the PH/PF40 run for every charge?

I really like the form factor of the PF series. In normal usage, does the handle of PH series bring big difference to PF series?

Thanks!

Joe


----------



## BVH

I have fairly large hands. I had the handle version and when I would hold it without using the handle, it was uncomfortable due to its large (as compared to a D-size Mag) mid-section. It was much more comfortable and convenient to use the handle. My guess - at least here on CPF, is that the PH out sells the PF by 4 or 5 to 1. Maybe Ken can give some CPF and other retail sales comparisons.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Karl how is comparison with BB?:tinfoil:


----------



## karlthev

I want to qualify my reply before I even answer this one. I have both of these high-power lights and am most impressed with both. I had them out for only brief periods one of those times in the limited ranges available in my home residential neighborhood giving me throw distances of 100 yards at best---way too short in my opinion and even that distance muddied due to street lights. The second time I had some much better distances in the 300-400 yard range but was on the lookout for local law enforcement since I was out at 4:00AM. Now, given those qualifications, I will say that the Barn Burner was the more powerful of the two in terms of throw and overall it did put out more light although not as great a difference as I was expecting. Now, this certainly isn't a bash of the BB which is one incredible light but possibly a testimate to the power of the Polarion 50 which has great output as well. I just wish I had another observer there to confer with to point out some of the other aspects and I am sorry that I don't have the beamshots I was hoping I might have to present here but, I will need to hold off on my next anticipated purchase of another light and go for a better camera where I may have manual control. 

Karl
I will get out again soon and have another shootout.


----------



## BVH

This and tons more will be covered in an upcoming May shoot.


----------



## Ken J. Good

Joe_torch

Runtime on the PH/PF40's are 70 mins +/- 10% per battery
Runtime on the PH/PF50's are 60 mins +/- 10% per battery

The PH series is much more useful for actual carry/usage.
I think the PF looks nicer, but does not have the balance or the carrying versatility of the PH (handled) version.

PF are typically sold to collectors and folks that want to mount them on weapons or other platforms.

PH's are sold at a 4 to 1 ratio to PF's.


----------



## karlthev

BVH said:


> This and tons more will be covered in an upcoming May shoot.



Thanks!! This will take some of the pressure off me! Too little time at home anymore and too dang much on the road to have much fun it seems!


Karl


----------



## Patriot

A couple of more beamshots:

The range to the Church steeple is *331 yards*. The range to either side of the steeple against the mountain side is *624 yards*. The camera was zoomed to about 75-85mm (35mm equivalent) and aimed at the top of the A-frame of the church. 







Notice how much more the PH50 illuminates the mountainside at 624 yards.





Here is a gif alternating between each light. Notice how much brighter the steeple is an how much more is reaching the mountain side.





This was the same location where I attempted to capture beamshots at 954 yards. This was against the same mountain behind the church but near the top of its ridge. Unfortunately my camera showed a card error for that series of pictures so I'm not able to show them. I'll try to make it back there once again because I'd like to show everyone that these lights are capable of good performance at a 1000 yards, especially the PH50. 

My brother came out and helped with these pictures and would take the light off the tripod when we were done with each one (there were other lights too). He looked like a little kid ooohing and ahhing as he swept the beams across the landscape. We were in a bit of a bowl shape with mountains all around. Each time he'd light something up like day he'd say, "how far is that!?" I'd say "407 yards." He'd say "are you serious? It looks so much closer!" Again he'd say, "how far is that?" I'd say, "264 yards." He'd exclaim, "No way! Let me see the rangefinder......holy cow it is that far! It looks like I could hit it with a baseball." The distances are very deceiving at night because you don't have any references. All you see is a well lit object standing out like a beacon against blackness. We would shine a bright incan out there like the M6 and it would just be absorbed by the foliage and darkness. When using the PH50, it really feels nuclear, for lack of better term. It's relatively small and sleek yet all this seemingly unnatural light is pouring out of it! We both agreed that it felt like we were doing something wrong when ever we were using it...lol. I


----------



## BVH

Patriot36 said:


> We both agreed that it felt like we were doing something wrong when ever we were using it...lol. I




Isn't that the truth! I sneak out into the front yard and street after 9 PM or so and do some quick "throw" tests in different directions and feel like I'm breaking some law. I then hurry back into the house!


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> Isn't that the truth! I sneak out into the front yard and street after 9 PM or so and do some quick "throw" tests in different directions and feel like I'm breaking some law. I then hurry back into the house!




LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :laughing: That's so funny man!! I do the same thing but I usually wait until about 10:30 or 11:00....haha! 



It's kinda like this afterwards.................. "  "


----------



## DM51

Superb shots! What a great location, too. The PH50 is very noticeably brighter - excellent gif.


----------



## Patriot

Wider images:

The same 331 yards to the church. Both lights were aimed carefully at the steeple. Checked and double checked by two people. 

PH40





PH50





gif image


----------



## karlthev

Well, yes, it appears that shining high-powered lights at night borders on the edge of legality--at least that is what one of my local officers indicated to me the other night and, I was using the EZnite!! Now mind you, this little HID has some commendable performance in it's own right but, it certainly isn't to be compared to the likes of some of the lights discussed here. I'm a bit leary about another residential illuminating run and will have to drive out of town for any more fun.....


Karl


----------



## DM51

Those wider shots are very interesting too. You can see both lights are exactly aimed the same. It looks as if the '50 has a tighter beam than the '40, with less spill. 

Maybe it has a slightly improved reflector? Or am I imagining that?


----------



## Patriot

Only one beamshot at 954 yards, with the PH50, wasn't lost. This is shown overexposed in order to see some of the detail on the mountainside. The large Saguaro cactus at the top ridge is 1083 yards, although the light was aimed at the 846 yard area. As you can see, plenty of light is making it out to that distance. 








Comparison pictures will be taken at this location next time.


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## Patriot

DM51 said:


> Those wider shots are very interesting too. You can see both lights are exactly aimed the same. It looks as if the '50 has a tighter beam than the '40, with less spill.
> 
> Maybe it has a slightly improved reflector? Or am I imagining that?





We also noticed that David. The PH50 seems a tiny bit more narrow and it threw us off at first. We discarded that set of pictures and re-shot them making sure that we had the collimated portion of the beam on the steeple. We noticed the same thing once again though. We attributed it to the PH40 being slightly wider but before I say that for sure I'd like to do one more comparison and actually measure the spill. I'll be out there next Friday again. 

The reflectors do appear to be the same in each light though. I'm wondering if the bulb depth is 1-2mm different though? I'm just not sure yet.

I just noticed that if you look at the zoomed gif above, the PH50 appears have a more narrow spill there also. If you hold your finger at the edge of the PH40 spill, when it switches to the PH50 the spill is a bit inside of it.


----------



## karlthev

These are great shots. Some time tell me how to get some 1/2 as good!


Karl


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## cue003

I have yet to go out and use the light and I need to borrow a camera for my shots.... I work WAY to much. The most I have done is shined it on the golf coarse off the back of my balcony.... I know (*head shake*) ... no excuses.

Patriot36, is it possible to swap the reflectors? Not sure if it would even make a difference but just curious to see if you tried that and how much the beam characteristics change.

you guys have done so many excellent shots that when I do get around to my shots they will fail in comparision. 

Oh, by the way, what rangefinder are you using? Is there a really cool/good one I should look at?

Curtis


----------



## Patriot

cue003 said:


> I have yet to go out and use the light and I need to borrow a camera for my shots.... I work WAY to much. The most I have done is shined it on the golf coarse off the back of my balcony.... I know (*head shake*) ... no excuses.
> 
> Patriot36, is it possible to swap the reflectors? Not sure if it would even make a difference but just curious to see if you tried that and how much the beam characteristics change.
> 
> you guys have done so many excellent shots that when I do get around to my shots they will fail in comparision.
> 
> Oh, by the way, what rangefinder are you using? Is there a really cool/good one I should look at?
> 
> Curtis





Curtis, I've not yet tried to take my light apart. I'm sure the reflectors are interchangeable though. My guess is that one of the bulbs is sitting a little bit deeper in one light or the other, but that's just a guess. I was looking at the bulb replacement instructions and tried turning the black ring on the head...it didn't budge. Obviously it's screwed together tightly.

You're pic will be great when you get around to it. I like other people pics because they operate outside of my framed thinking. I always seem to have the camera in the same place and really don't mix things up much besides the location. 

I'm using a Leica LRF 1200. There is another thread in the HID section where we've been discussing them. I'll post over there for you about that. :thumbsup:


----------



## Ken J. Good

There has been no reflector or lamp change.

The internal electronics/ballast has been changed.

As far as the platform the lamp base sits on, there may have been some small dimensional changes.

I will check.


----------



## XeRay

Patriot36 said:


> Curtis, I've not yet tried to take my light apart. I'm sure the reflectors are interchangeable though. My guess is that one of the bulbs is sitting a little bit deeper in one light or the other, but that's just a guess. I was looking at the bulb replacement instructions and tried turning the black ring on the head...it didn't budge. Obviously it's screwed together tightly.


 
I took my PH40 totally apart to test the ballast etc. It took 2 people to take it apart, one to hold tightly, the other to turn.

The bulb and ballast are mounted together with a platform the bulb igniter sits on. There are 3 brass adjusters to adjust focus and beam symetry. If you have a very long small screw driver and aligator clips to power the light on the power terminals (battery removed) you can make these adjustments for beam width (focus) and for beam roundness with it on. I suspect the beam shape differences between PH40 and PH50 as demonstrated in the photos are slightly different adjustment (focus) positions from the factory.

The 3 beam adjusting screws are around the perimiter of the ballast in threaded holes which go all the way through the ballast. The screws could be approx close to 120 degrees apart going around the ballast. One of the 3 angles is larger than the 2, I am estimating this from memory.

If you are wondering what the small box shaped component on the back of the ballast is, it is a thermal cut off which is rated to shut the ballast down at 75C and the magnetic switch is inside the ballast near the outside edge. This is all for the PH40. From the photo on pg 3 of this thread the PH50 looks different than my PH40 the thermal cut out switch is not visible and the adjustment screws for the bulb seem not to be accessable, maybe it is just the photo ???


----------



## Patriot

XeRay said:


> I took my PH40 totally apart to test the ballast etc. It took 2 people to take it apart, one to hold tightly, the other to turn.




Haha!!! That must have been kinda funny. I know what you mean though and I only tried to loosen the black ring on the head as explained in the bulb replacement instructions. I guess there is another junction directly behind the switch as pointed out by DM51 with a picture in this thread. 

Also there are pictures for everything that you described here: http://www.polarion-store.com/pd_helios_replacement_hid.cfm
just click on the PDF link on that page. Maybe not so much for you Dan because you've already seen everything in there.

Anyhow thanks for the info!


----------



## adamlau

Google Maps Location





Camera: Canon SD1000
ISO Setting: 100
Lens Aperture: F2.8
Exposure: 1 Second
White Balance: Auto
Distance: Various

Control Shot





Exposure: 10 Seconds

Control Shot





ISO Setting: 80

PH50 @ 231 Yards





ISO Setting: 80

PH50 @ 446 Yards





*Brightness Levels Increased 25%*

ISO Setting: 80

PH50 @ 231 Yards + 25%





ISO Setting: 80

PH50 @ 446 Yards + 25%


----------



## Ken J. Good

I told you I would get back on the Polarion's Lumen ratings.

For the last several years, we have posted the the lumen rating on the PH40 was 4,000+

Additionally within this thread, an individual stated the the PH40 had 3,800 lumens according to his calculations and testing and furthermore the PH50 must be called into question.

I've attached the results from the Korean Institute of Lighting Technology. This is the highest level, government subsidized research/testing lab for anything to do with lighting in the country of Korea, not some random lab.
See: http://www.kilt.re.kr/english/index.html

Note on Page 2, *4,200* lumens.

As stated earlier in the thread, I have no reason to doubt the integrity of Polarion of Korea when the lumens ratings are stated.

See:
http://polarion-usa.com/images/PH40-Lumen1.jpg (Certification)

http://polarion-usa.com/images/PH40-Lumen2.jpg ((The Result)

I further submit that if folks making their own lights want to question Polarion's lumen ratings, they start off with their own certifications obtained outside their business as a baseline.


----------



## XeRay

Ken J. Good said:


> I've attached the results from the Korean Institute of Lighting Technology. This is the highest level, government subsidized research/testing lab for anything to do with lighting in the country of Korea, not some random lab.
> See: http://www.kilt.re.kr/english/index.html
> 
> Note on Page 2, *4,200* lumens.
> 
> As stated earlier in the thread, I have no reason to doubt the integrity of Polarion of Korea when the lumens ratings are stated.
> 
> See:
> http://polarion-usa.com/images/PH40-Lumen1.jpg (Certification)
> 
> http://polarion-usa.com/images/PH40-Lumen2.jpg ((The Result)
> 
> I further submit that if folks making their own lights want to question Polarion's lumen ratings, they start off with their own certifications obtained outside their business as a baseline.


 
I wrote a long documented refutation and then lost it in cyberspace. That is probably best. 

BTW anyone read Korean ???

Your light(s) is "magical" in that it performs very well. However, there is no Magic in Physics or Math when relating to the manufacturers (Osram) bulb specs. The 4200 lumens and 6300 lumens numbers are not credible for the average of production units with actual 40 or 50 watts to the bulb. Osram should send their engineers to Polarion to discover how they can do what Osram cannot.

You guys (CPF) can decide for your selves if you care about marketing claim accuracies. Some people make buying decisions based on the numbers. If you want me to keep this stuff (opinions) to myself let me know. 

At this point since I have nothing else to contribute on CPF than our accumulated combined 15 years HID knowlege and expertise, I may as well just lurk if these credible comments by me are not generally welcome.

All who have purchased any of these Polarion HID's should rightfully be proud that they have purchased a great product, this is not a criticism of the product but one of the marketing dept at Polarion, Korea. This is not Kens fault but if no-one ever questions the numbers, over time they become time tested fact and gain more credibility. This creates an uneven playing field for any newcomer etc. that wants to be "play fair" in the numbers game.


----------



## Patriot

XeRay said:


> You guys (CPF) can decide for your selves if you care about marketing claim accuracies. Some people make buying decisions based on the numbers. If you want me to keep this stuff (opinions) to myself let me know.




I don't mind your opinions Dan. I really feel as if you've approached this fairly scientifically based on your experience. You sound like a perfectionist and it's probably getting to you that the numbers aren't adding up. That's understandable. Since you've explained your posts, I've only taken it as you trying to get to the bottom of an unsolved mystery. Obviously you think the Polarion is one heck of a light because you've talked it up several time now.

...and no, I can't read Korean so I'll have to accept that the test is what Ken says that it is, which I do.

Does XeVision have a Integrating Sphere or are you just working with Osram specs?

My other thought was that maybe the PH40 is more than 40W and the PH50 is more than 50W. Wouldn't that explain some of the differences?


Paul


----------



## BVH

I always welcome more than one viewpoint and questions on subjects of interest to me. My selfish reason being that it can drive competition and ultimately better products. I would think that manufacturing tolerances and acceptable ranges in quality control would allow minor differences in products coming down the production line. A 64th or 32nd of an inch difference in bulb location within a reflector could certainly cause identical lights to have different beam characteristics. If a ballast has adjustable output, certainly one could be produced outputting 50 Watts and the next one 52 Watts. There could be a difference in resistance in the power supply to the ballast. There's lots of possibilities. These variables could certainly result in higher or lower than expected test results.

My post is not about this specific testing result in this thread because I don't know if the testing is done using a random light coming off the production line or if it's done after confirming that all components being tested are dead-on spec.


----------



## Ken J. Good

XeRay: I went out of my way to post a legitimate document. Your response was predictable. I don't think it would matter what language or what institution the certification was obtained from, you would call it into question. So in this regard I am done trying to demonstrate the good faith and honesty of Polarion to you personally. After dealing with the owners/managers and designers of Polarion for the last several years, I have implicit trust. Are they mistake free? No.

If you want to attempt to debunk the authenticity of the document posted, be my guest. I would expect a light produced in Korea, tested by a credible institution in Korea to be written in Korean, not English...Call me gullible I guess.

Although I personally don't speak or read Korean, I did manage through diligent study and long hours of practice extract the fact that the symbols that appeared in the order *lm 4200* was an strong indication that the PH40 when tested was emitting 4200 lumens.

If there are any Korean speakers here on CPF, PLEASE feel free to translate.

Bottom line, I asked Polarion of Korea to send me documentation on the PH40 as I was previously told tests where conducted using an integrating sphere some time ago. The results are posted and seem fairly clear to me anyway.

If it means that the 40-watt ballast had some anomoly, if it means the integrating sphere was suffering from being too close to graviational vortex, if it means that time and space was warped during the test, I really don't care. The fact of the matter, is this credible institution stated in writing the total volume of light coming out of this PH40 was 4,200 lumens.

On a separate but important note:
I was also told by Polarion of Korea to use 6,200-6,400 lumens prior to the initial shipment of PH50 lights.

I am now told that the shipped/production units are de-tuned to 5,200 lumens, not the 6,200-6,400 lumens number initially given to me.

I responded with why?
Engineers balanced heat, runtime issues against output.

All Polarion spec sheets will reflect the correct number. In case you want to jump on the bandwagon it was this thread that drove this change, you would be incorrect. Polarion of Korea was aware of this, but did not communicate this to me as fast as I would have liked to say the least.

I work through a translator at weird hours of the night and to be honest all recent discussions have centered around completely different matters.

My conjecture is that XeRay's math seems reasonably accurate given his direct experience in these matters and maybe the lamp was being driven harder at the outset. Again, I am not technically oriented so it is conjecture on my part. When I get the numbers from Polarion, I use their numbers.

It's great to question and I can appreciate positive criticism. It's great to get to the bottom line, it's important to have the exact technical specfications be as precise as possible. It's also important to act graciously and address controversy or discrepancy in a civilized matter and for the most part this has occurred. 

I want to speak the truth in all matters and am not interested in inflating numbers, rounding up or otherwise engaging in deceptive marketing practices.

When I believe I am right, I will defend that turf if necessary.
When I am wrong, or the numbers change based on new information, I will communicate that as well. From those of you who know from other projects, you should see that I am fairly transparent with respect to the good, the bad and the ugly even about hardware or doctrine I promote.

I generally focus on what is right about our product, not what is wrong with others guys.

I love the PH50 at 5,200 lumens.


----------



## BVH

Man, if I had a PH50, I'd be in there "tweaking" that ballast for full output!


----------



## Patriot

The new, then old, then new again, 5200 lumen specification certainly makes sense and falls in line with the numbers now. I am surprised that there is only 1000 lumens difference between the PH40 & PH50. When you see the beam shots and gifs, I can't see there only a 1000 lumens is producing that kinda of difference. 

In any case, cheers to Ken and David for getting this light to us so quickly. It's only natural when things are moving forward so quickly that some of the GB sale info might not have been finalized yet. It was evident that you Ken, passed on information from Polarion as soon as you received it yourself. The changed lumen rating doesn't reflect negatively on you in any way, shape, or form. If anything it's a testimony to your quick communication with us throughout the process. Now that the PH50 is just now hitting the market outside of CPF, it sounds like Polarion has their figures finalized.

I couldn't be more please with the PH50, so I'd have to say that Polarion did it right yet again.


----------



## XeRay

Patriot36 said:


> ...and no, I can't read Korean so I'll have to accept that the test is what Ken says that it is, which I do.
> 
> Does XeVision have a Integrating Sphere or are you just working with Osram specs?
> 
> My other thought was that maybe the PH40 is more than 40W and the PH50 is more than 50W. Wouldn't that explain some of the differences?
> Paul


 
We do not own an integrating sphere, We use the numbers provided by the bulb manufacturer(s). I believe that Ken says the 50 watt is exactly that, 50 watts to the bulb. I have tested the 40 watt Polarion PH-40 ballast that I have and would assume it is typical. From my testing I have no reason to believe that it is not very close to 40 watts. I suspect the difference between the 40 and 50 is more like 1400 lumens, everything would make more sense then.


----------



## darmawaa

Any chance to make 6400lm unit available?
My Barn Burner has quite lots of heat and little run time than original 50W Xeray, but I choose the BarnBurner anyway, which I think many people do so.
Make 2 version 5200 and 6400 lumens :thumbsup:

On a separate but important note:
I was also told by Polarion of Korea to use 6,200-6,400 lumens prior to the initial shipment of PH50 lights.

I am now told that the shipped/production units are de-tuned to 5,200 lumens, not the 6,200-6,400 lumens number initially given to me.

I responded with why?
Engineers balanced heat, runtime issues against output.


----------



## Ken J. Good

Deleted post...


----------



## Patriot

darmawaa said:


> On a separate but important note:
> I was also told by Polarion of Korea to use 6,200-6,400 lumens prior to the initial shipment of PH50 lights.
> 
> I am now told that the shipped/production units are de-tuned to 5,200 lumens, not the 6,200-6,400 lumens number initially given to me.
> 
> I responded with why?
> Engineers balanced heat, runtime issues against output.




*Ken Good*, with Polarion, in post #155 pretty much just shared that info with us.......... :thinking: Did you get a chance to read that one yet?


----------



## Patriot

*Adam*, Your great beamshots in post #150 kinda went unnoticed, what with all the lumen talk going on. I just wanted to tell you that I thought they were neat picture. I like the google image, outlining the test area also. There appeared to be a lot of ambient light there but they still showed what the light will do. It looked like you climbed onto the corner of a roof btw...lol :laughing:


Thanks again for the pictures! Your exposure settings always look very close to true life.


----------



## LuxLuthor

BVH said:


> Isn't that the truth! I sneak out into the front yard and street after 9 PM or so and do some quick "throw" tests in different directions and feel like I'm breaking some law. I then hurry back into the house!



+1 LOL!


----------



## GhostReaction

Could I get this straight and just conclude: 

-Those in this GB has got themselves a 'tuned up' PH/PF 50 that puts out more than 5200 lumens. 

-Those not in this GB that order a PH50 later (detuned) will get somewhere around 5200 lumens but with a slightly better runtime.


----------



## BVH

Quote from Ken's post:

"I was also told by Polarion of Korea to use 6,200-6,400 lumens prior to the initial shipment of PH50 lights.

I am now told that the shipped/production units are de-tuned to 5,200 lumens, not the 6,200-6,400 lumens number initially given to me."


It's difficult to tell because I could interpret Ken's sentence either way, but I'd say the GB lights that ya'll got as well as all future production lights are the 5200 Lumen units.


----------



## Patriot

GhostReaction said:


> Could I get this straight and just conclude:
> 
> -Those in this GB has got themselves a 'tuned up' PH/PF 50 that puts out more than 5200 lumens.
> 
> -Those not in this GB that order a PH50 later (detuned) will get somewhere around 5200 lumens but with a slightly better runtime.





I see what you're saying and that thought occurred to me also. After evaluating the statement further I understood it to mean that the GB folks were included in the lights which were considered "shipped / in production" thus, we also have 5200 lumen lights. 


Please correct my if I'm wrong Ken... :thinking:


----------



## LuxLuthor

The obvious answer is for Patriot36 to buy a second production model and compare output to GB model. LOL!


----------



## BVH

Naw, just get the tool kit out and go for it! Just a little tweaking of the screw, that's all it takes.


----------



## Patriot

Ya'll are plum crazy! 


It crossed my mind for about two seconds *Lux*...lol.




Well *BVH* help be open this thing up then!! I'd actually consider a tweak to the PH50 once the small Polarion is released. Until then, I'm going to want the 60 minutes of run-time.


----------



## XeRay

BVH said:


> Man, if I had a PH50, I'd be in there "tweaking" that ballast for full output!


 
"Detuning" means wattage reduction to the bulb, that is the only thing which reduces bulb output. I also don't believe any 35 watt bulb should be pushed beyond 50 watts exept for VERY short periods of time, for many reasons. I believe Polarion made the only good decision to limit this design to 50 bulb watts max. To get the numbers up to 6200 lumens from the bulb the PH-50 would have to be dialed up to about 57 output watts. I suspect the ballast is too small in terms of thermal mass and the heatsinking (fins on the light) are not enough surface area to handle the heat for extended periods. If they still have a 75C thermal cut out circuit in the ballast, it would likely cut out in less than 1 hour except in colder conditions. This is just an educated guess!!!


----------



## LuxLuthor

I have long wondered why there have not been higher watt, commonly available, portable use HID bulbs beyond the Philips 50W "*Fat Boy*" DL-50, that was overdriven with 75W ballast in BB. Maybe it is a confluence of needing a practical battery source, heat issues, market demand. I just love that bulb nickname though "fat-boy"...gives it such a distinctive personality!


----------



## BVH

Lux, I wondered the same thing. However, after getting my Locators, I realized there are a number of bulbs beyond 50 Watt. But the ones I see are what I call "double ended" and need a support strut at the front end. Lots of them are used in projectors. I've seen 100, 150, 200, 250 Watt etc. The GE Marc 300 is an example. It's 300 Watt and 3500K. There's a terminal at each end instead of using the return wire like the Fatboy. Kind of like those pencil thick 500 Watt Halogen lamps you see in contractors/homeowners work lights.


----------



## BVH

In line with Xeray's post, for safety reasons, I should mention that my usage of my HIDs involve short runs - 5 minute runs +- and therefore not much heat is generated. If I do a run-time test, I do it in multiple, short runs. Therefore, I believe I can get away with tweaking power levels when tweaking controls are present. YMMV, don't try this at home, etc.


----------



## Patriot

I'm on the opposite end of the Spectrum *BVH*. I usually run 75% through a battery cycle when I use my lights. I've done several night walks with the PH40 and it gets pretty warm by the 25-30 minute mark. Especially this time of year and the months to come. 

I haven't walked yet with the PH50 because I'd have to carry it about a 1/2 mile with it off first before I get into the desert area. I'm too embarrased to walk down the side walk with it. I've had several interested motorists stop and ask me what kind of light I have. Once I was just walking with the K3500 on some back streets and a guy in a truck, around his late 20s, drove past me then stopped and backed up to ask if my light was a Black Bear. I told him it was about 2 1/2 times brighter than a Black Bear and I let him shine it around...lol. 

Ok, I'm just rambling off topic now but anyhow, I was just making the point that I turn my lights on and leave them on for some of tasks. They get nice and toasty when I use them. :naughty:


----------



## adamlau

Heh  ... So where is the screw we need to turn to get 6K lumens :devil: ? Wouldn't that be neat if we could  ...


----------



## Nitro

Great pics guys! :thumbsup: Thanks for posting.

So has anyone done comparison shots of the PH-50 and 50W XeRay?


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## karlthev

I've had short (5 min) and long (35 min) runs on my HIDs but not yet with the PH50. No doubt it will get warm though. I have noted that my smallest HID, the EZnite, gets quite warm in its 30+ min runtime.



Karl


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## BVH

Nitro, coming up on the 24th if all goes well and if someone else gets to it first, then all the better.


----------



## 4sevens

Hi everyone 

I just now discovered this thread!
Looks like we're having lots of fun with the PH50's! 

I have some pictures to contribute from 2008 Shot show in February.
(We had a pre-production PH50 for testing at the shoot out)

Gratuitous Rothrandir tests at 1 meter:






Shutter speed increased to 1/1000 (to capture the grimace on his face)





Nice smile!





Roth vs PH50

Roth gets a tan with a silhouette of his hand on his face! 
Roth loses


----------



## BVH

foursevens, you're tardy to the pardy! As someone integral to the distribution of these fine lights, what's your excuse??

By the way, pics are not showing up fo me.


----------



## 4sevens

BVH said:


> foursevens, you're tardy to the pardy! As someone integral to the distribution of these fine lights, what's your excuse??
> By the way, pics are not showing up fo me.


I was in Chynah!
I'm just now recovering from an intense 2 weeks.

Try the pictures again. They should be working


----------



## BVH

Well..........ok, you're excused. No need for a note from your mom.

Still no pics for me and for some reason, this thread is now taking a very long time to load as compared to before your post. I'm seeing red "X's" in little boxes.


----------



## [email protected]

hmmmm, they work for me...

firewall maybe?


----------



## BVH

I'll have to try it from home later on.


----------



## Patriot

4sevens said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I just now discovered this thread!
> Looks like we're having lots of fun with the PH50's!
> 
> I have some pictures to contribute from 2008 Shot show in February.
> (We had a pre-production PH50 for testing at the shoot out)



In that case, was it photographed with the other lights in direct comparison? So far there are only a couple of us posting beamshots here so if you have some we'd love to see them.


----------



## Nitro

BVH said:


> Nitro, coming up on the 24th if all goes well and if someone else gets to it first, then all the better.


 
Great! That should be interesting to see.


----------



## Lips

.









PF40 HELIOS Board





*BVH* you go first I'll go second!










I can hear *Ken* from over here! :hairpull:



. 


.


----------



## BVH

But I don't have a Helios! :mecry: So I guess it's up to you, Lips. Be brave now!


----------



## Lips

BVH said:


> But I don't have a Helios! :mecry: So I guess it's up to you, Lips. Be brave now!





Calls for Before and After Photos! - :hairpull: 




.


----------



## Patriot

Lips said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PF40 HELIOS Board
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BVH* you go first I'll go second!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can hear *Ken* from over here! :hairpull:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> .





You're a warrior Lips!!  Go for it!! LOL.

I agree that it would be silly to do anything without photos to confirm any possible changes.


----------



## LuxLuthor

4-7's funny pix.

Lips, you know you want to do it. :kiss: Just think of the contribution to the community you could make....LOL! :devil:


----------



## Patriot

I just looked at my PH50 and it doesn't have that little dial.


----------



## DM51

Patriot36 said:


> I just looked at my PH50 and it doesn't have that little dial.


Ken gave the factory special instructions to take the dial out of yours - he knew you would mess around with it and blow it up, lol


----------



## Patriot

there is always the PH40 .... :nana:


----------



## Lips

.





*Ahmmmm*


Do *NOT* try this at home!



Two small clicks mean *TOAST*!!!





*Ken*, I need a replacement ballast please; *50w* preferably... No labor needed as I know how (Unfortunately!) where everything goes and how to put it in...



Chears guys! *Brave* - *Warrior* - *Community* -








.


----------



## TheGreyEminence

You´re joking right?.....NO??????

OMG!


----------



## Patriot

You actually tried it!!!!! :huh:  Holy Smokes! 

That's a bummer Lips..:shrug:


----------



## lasercrazy

Lips said:


> .
> *Ahmmmm*
> 
> Do *NOT* try this at home!
> 
> Two small clicks mean *TOAST*!!!
> 
> *Ken*, I need a replacement ballast please; *50w* preferably... No labor needed as I know how (Unfortunately!) where everything goes and how to put it in...
> 
> Chears guys! *Brave* - *Warrior* - *Community* -



That sucks, how did it die? Was it just a spark and nothing or catastrophic failure?


----------



## DM51

Lips said:


> Do *NOT* try this at home!
> Two small clicks mean *TOAST*!!!
> 
> *Ken*, I need a replacement ballast please; *50w* preferably... No labor needed as I know how (Unfortunately!) where everything goes and how to put it in...


_*OUCH!*_ That sounds _very_ bad. It actually blew up? I'm really sorry to hear that - I hope it isn't too difficult or expensive to repair. 

Do you have pics of what happened?


----------



## larryk

Lips, Your just kidding around I hope.


----------



## GhostReaction

Is lips still around?

He will be missed... but his brave sacrifice for this community shall never be forgotten...
5 sec of silence please in remembrance of our HID hero... 

Anybody trying 'the tweak' next?


----------



## cue003

Lips. You really took exemplify the Go BIG or Go Home saying...... Man way to go on trying the tweak... 2 clicks and poof.... what happened after one click? anything?

Curtis


----------



## Patriot

Good question Curtis, I was wondering the same thing.

I still thought Lips was going to let BVH "go first"


----------



## LuxLuthor

cue003 said:


> Man way to go on trying the tweak... 2 clicks and poof.... *what happened after one click? *anything?
> 
> Curtis



Yes. The first click prepared the light for it's afterlife. 

Lips, I think to be sure it was not some other issue, you should get a replacement ballast and try it one more time. Then we, "the community," will be positive not to do this. 

Seriously, I know you did it with the best of intentions, and that result does suck. :mecry:


----------



## Nitro

Lips, I think you might have case for a lawsuit here. Clearly these lights should have a warning on them that says, "WARNING, do not disassemble and turn screws for the risk of property damage and/or personal injury!".


----------



## Lips

.



Guys the light died not me! 



Red is the start and I broke 1 - 360 degree rotation down into 7 small levels. Level 1 went fine as in pic. Level 2 the light would not fire up and everything looked fine. Very short runs to take pics (2 - 3 minutes). I couldn't get light to fire up so I took the head off and a little smoke came out... Smelled burnt electronics. Used strap wrenches to take back of light off because it was warm. It came off fairly easy. A little more light smoke...

The ballast is very small and smelled as if it something burn-out in there. I believe this was one of the first ones produced...


I sure hope Ken has some Pity on me!!! Guys please send Ken emails and phone calls to help me out  j/k


I believe there's a little adjustment room in there but not much on that little ballast...





Board with Red at start and lines are levels














Stock - Level 0











Level - 1 I couldn't tell much differnce between levels...









Help


----------



## BVH

OK, guys....if "we play, we pay". I think it only fair that since "we" talked Lips into this, then "we" should help pay for the replacement ballast. What do ya'll think? I'm in for $50, who's with me?

In looking close at the pics, it's very difficult to see any significant difference. Maybe, just maybe, the two dark spots on the clock face are a tiny bit more bleached out in the L1 pic? Hardly worth the risk. It's probably good that the new, 50 Watt lights don't have an adjustment screw!


----------



## DM51

I'll certainly contribute. This is a great thread, pure entertainment, and Lips really has taken one for the team here:






_[worrying pause]_



GhostReaction said:


> Is lips still around? He will be missed…


 _[finally, a blackened figure emerges from the smoking wreckage of a PH50]_



Lips said:


> Guys the light died not me!


 
LOL!


----------



## lasercrazy

If you can open up the ballast and start searching around with a dmm you might find the burnt out part.


----------



## larryk

Is it possible that Ken could have your ballast repaired and up-graded to the new 50 watt ? If they can be upgraded, I'll send my 40 watt battast in too.


----------



## XeRay

larryk said:


> Is it possible that Ken could have your ballast repaired and up-graded to the new 50 watt ? If they can be upgraded, I'll send my 40 watt battast in too.


 
If the ballast is potted like mine for the PH-40 forget repair. They might sell you a 50 watt upgrade ballast though.


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> Lips, I think to be sure it was not some other issue, you should get a replacement ballast and try it one more time. Then we, "the community," will be positive not to do this.



Ok...thanks *Lux*! I just about had a carbonated beverage draining out my nose on that one.



Well *Lips*, obviously that adjustment is pretty sensitive. I'm still trying to figure out if one of those photos is brighter or not. I might have to Lips them...I mean, gif them if it's ok with you. 

Regarding your ballast replacement, how about posting your PayPal account info here, that way we can anonymously contribute since a few of us were egging you on.



Edit: gif. image of Lip's ballast adjustment. I can't see any difference. The factory setting almost looks brighter but I think that's because they're aimed an inch or two off.


----------



## BVH

I've got Lips PayPal Addy:

edited out


----------



## Patriot

Thanks Bob. 


I have got some pictures that you guys are going to be very interested in............Xe50, Xe75, PH50 comparisons..:kiss:


They'll be up within the hour.....


----------



## BVH

Fantastic, can't wait to see them. Probably with Exact ranged distances, too!


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> Fantastic, can't wait to see them. Probably with Exact ranged distances, too!



269 yards.


----------



## Lips

Guys, No way but thanks for the thoughts. I'm too old to claim Peer Pressure. Please don't send paypals as I'm gonna send them back! 


I thought I was being careful but 



The Ballast is very easy to put in and the light to put back together. Turn the light on for a few minutes and it will come apart fairly easy with strap wrench. Ken, how-about some 50watt upgrade ballast for the few forum guys that would want them. I would forgo any warrantee as I would do the work myself. Hell if the ballast blows just put in another one. What you say Ken  Call you :candle:



.:wave:


----------



## Lips

BVH said:


> I've got Lips PayPal Addy:
> 
> [email protected]






*BVH*

Please edit my email addy out of there. Xeray's gonna come along and post my email on all the GirlyMon sites now out of pure meanness 









:nana:




.


----------



## BVH

what email address????






less than 30 minutes for pics


----------



## Patriot

Ok, here they are. Xe50, Xe75 (BB), and PH50

As you're experienced eyes will notice right away. The camera and lights are not in the exact same position from shot to shot. These were all shot with a Canon G9 at F4 1.0" ISO 200. Please view these as a exposure reference only since the positions are different. I have access to the original files and have verified the exposure info myself. Distance is 269 yards. (White balance set to "daylight" all three photos)

 The photographer will remain anonymous at this time. But there should be more to come later. 


Xe50 





PH50





Barn Burner





gif image






*Edit: Croped image added to show the light beyond the fence line:





*



*Edit: Cropped from the top of the fence up*





*




Edit: Another cropped image below the close waterline of the waterhole*





Well.... let's just say that the PH50 isn't loosing anything to the Xe50  You guys can be more direct in your verbiage if you like...


The BB is no big surprise and still holds the title easily. Look as how bright the reflector of the tree is in the water. The XeVisions really produce a consistent cone of light without much spill. They're good at producing a nice wall of light down range, beyond 250 yards. The Polarions consistently give a pencil beam center, wide corona and a lot of spill...just look at the grass in the foreground leading up to the fence. It's bathed in light. One last note, I really appreciate the color temp of the Polarion. It's a bit less blue than the Xe50.

*Edit: Note that the camera was mounted lower for the PH50 shot. If it had been up a little bit higher (like the XeVisions) it may have captured more light on the back edge of the waterhole **(more ground surface to capture illuminated) Notice how the fence post in the PH50 shot comes right up near the closest edge of the water hole.

Edit: My photo editor show the brightest point on the tree to be brighter with the PH50, which means it will probably give a higher lux reading. The ereas at the base, tip and right hand of the three is brighter with the Xe50 though. It appears that the PH50 has a super throw spot right in the center of its beam, not unlike the Jil EZnite (both Polarion reflectors)

Edit: Note how with the Xe75, the horizon is clearly visible. I'm not sure how far out that is but it's impressive that it's so well defined. That takes lots of lumens concentrated into a small angle.

Thank you Mr CPFer for these great shots. You know who you are *


----------



## XeRay

Lips said:


> *BVH*
> 
> Please edit my email addy out of there. Xeray's gonna come along and post my email on all the GirlyMon sites now out of pure meanness


 
Too late, I got the comcast address. LOL 

Lips, your secret is safe with me.


----------



## BVH

Pat36, was the Xeray50 color really that much different in-person than the Xeray75 as the photo shows? I remember when we did shootout 3, the color of each was pretty much the same. Are all the shots under-exposed or normal exposure?


----------



## Patriot

All three are under expossed by at least a stop...maybe 2. All three of course were manual exposure and all three set to "daylight."

Two more photos will post within the hour. (350 yards)


----------



## BVH

Geeze...all these teasers, Pat36. I'm gonna have to stay glued to my PC!

Next, you'll say "pics at 459.5 yards" :nana:


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> Next, you'll say "pics at 459.5 yards" :nana:



Now don't go telling me that your CRF measures to the 1/2 yard!!! :huh:  :wave:


----------



## Patriot

Here are two more taken at 350 yards. All camera settings are the same as listed above, including the white balance being set to "daylight." Please note that like the photos above the lights were not in the exact same place from shot to shot. Not precisely scientific, but we've all been waiting to see these lights compared and it's better than nothing.

*Edit: Upon further study. The lights were mounted in the same place for these two photos but the camera was a little lower for the PH50 shot. Also the PH50 is aimed slightly further to the right and thus not illuminating the bush on the top of the ridge as well.*

Props once again to the photographer :twothumbs

Xe50






PH50





gig image:






No more teasing for now Bob...at least until tonight at 380 yards....:nana:


----------



## Lips

XeRay said:


> Too late, I got the comcast address. LOL
> 
> Lips, your secret is safe with me.





!






Patriot36


Thanks for the shots mon! 


It may be just me but that *Xeray* light looks like it may have a *cold* or somethings going wrong with it...







I hear there's a secret switch on the Xeray ballast too, don't even think about it :naughty:










.


----------



## Patriot

Lips said:


> It may be just me but that *Xeray* light looks like it may have a *cold* or somethings going wrong with it...






You're welcome Lips. 

It seems to be consistent which regards to the comparison of the Polarion P1 35W and the Xe50 in earlier photos. Although the Xe50 was brighter it wasn't out of the ballpark brighter and actually the P1 had a hotter spot right in the center...though very small. With the addition of 2000 lumens from the PH50 it seems to fit right into the puzzle nicely. When BVH does his shoot-off we'll get another Xe50 example in there (hopefully) which will be nice and give even more credibility to the differences. Additionally I'm hoping for some more comparison shots of the Xe50 and PH50 in the coming weeks. In these two examples pics thus far, the PH50 seems to be showing off.


----------



## BVH

Yes, we'll have a stock Xeray50 in the shoot along with a PH50, PH40, Xeray BB and a bunch of others.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Oh boy, here we go with the Polarion vs. XeRay beam shot controversies again! LOL! The PH shot is misleading because it catches all the pretty green grass closer, which gives a subjective impression of being brighter overall.

Remember that last go around with the variations in prototype vs. production reflectors, different bulbs, and zoom position of XeRay? LOL! Ohhhh Nooooo......Mr. Bill !!!!!!


----------



## Patriot

That's all true Lux.... I'm working on some crops which will overlay the two tree images to be closer which will have the added benefit of bypassing all the PH50's pretty spill. I won't have those ready for a couple of hours, unless I get a wild hair. 


At least we can agree that these are all production reflectors and the XeVision lights were at tight focus. So we can rule out those two variables.


----------



## karlthev

If I get up in the wee hours again, out I'll go for another shoot out!


Karl


----------



## Patriot

karlthev said:


> If I get up in the wee hours again, out I'll go for another shoot out!
> 
> 
> Karl




Woot!!!  :thumbsup: 

Thanks Karl.



Here is are cropped images of each light beyond the fence line (approx) I'm limited by doing the better because of the different camera positions, both horizontally and vertically. Both images are 210 X 160.

Too small to title. Hint, the PH50 is warmer. 





Here is another from the top of the fence on up.








Here is another from the close edge of the waterhole, on down.






I think the combination of these two shots give a good idea of overall, out the front lumens. To my eye there is more light falling in both the upper and lower halves of the two images with the PH50.

Other thoughts?


----------



## Nitro

Is it just me, or does that Xe50 have one ugly beam? I'd think the Xe50 would look like the BB, but just dimmer. I'm curious to see other Xe50's to see if they look any better.


----------



## cmacclel

Patriot36 said:


> You're welcome Lips.
> 
> It seems to be consistent which regards to the comparison of the Polarion P1 35W and the Xe50 in earlier photos. Although the Xe50 was brighter it wasn't out of the ballpark brighter and actually the P1 had a hotter spot right in the center...though very small.


 
I think your XeRay or Bulb is defective. I had both the X1 and Helios and the XeRay had a noticeably brighter spot. In almost all the other posted beamshots the color temp is close between the 2 lights in the last series of beamshots there is a huge difference.

Mac


----------



## Patriot

cmacclel said:


> I think your XeRay or Bulb is defective. I had both the X1 and Helios and the XeRay had a noticeably brighter spot. In almost all the other posted beamshots the color temp is close between the 2 lights in the last series of beamshots there is a huge difference.
> 
> Mac




I can ask the owner if he has another 50W bulb I suppose. It's certainly possible that the color is off some. I'm working on borrowing another Xe-50 and BVH will be doing a full shootout about two weeks from now.

As for as the Xe50 brightness/intensity/hotspot in the photos above go, you can see from the upper split pictures that it's by no means dim. In the pictures that you're referring to the Xe50 has a "noticeably brighter spot" because it's was going up against a bunch of 35W-40W lights, with the exception of the BB. In these shots it's being compared with other another 50W watt light and the BB. I think the Xe50 is doing pretty good down range it's just coming up short in the corona and spill, which is nothing new for the Xeray lights.

Your pictures comparing Xe50 and PH40:





Earlier shoot out pics Polarioin P1 35W and Xe50:


----------



## adamlau

BVH said:


> Yes, we'll have a stock Xeray50 in the shoot along with a PH50, PH40, Xeray BB and a bunch of others.


We shall have a most excellent comparison by then :twothumbs


----------



## Patriot

adamlau said:


> We shall have a most excellent comparison by then :twothumbs



I'm looking forward to those. I'm actually considering heading out there for this. I just have to see if I can get a few things covered here.


----------



## BVH

Pat36, On the side, we could have a Leica CRF1200 rangefinder "shootout".

In the very first 3 shots you posted, the color temp of the X50 just looks way off, not necessarily the brightness - although it looks a bit dim but I would not swear to it. All three lights have the same color temp bulb, give or take a hundred or so Kelvins.


----------



## Cowley

Ok I have to come clean. I'm the neophyte beamshooter that Patriot has been covering for. This is my first attempt at taking beamshot images and it certainly shows. This was a quick grab and go attempt after a long hard week at work. In reviewing the results I have learned a lot about proper setup and execution. I need to add a few comments to shed some light on the images. In real life the XeRay 50 looked close or even a little brighter at the hotspot when aimed at the intended target(s). I also do not remember the degree of color difference as depicted in the photos. As pointed out earlier, the PH-50 beam with its increased spill on the green grass certainly makes the overall image brighter. I have looked over the original images that are much, much larger files and I can't figure out why the XeRay images are not as I saw them other than the following. One variable that changed during the evening was the amount of particulate in the air. The shot order was the XeRay BB first, the PH-50, and then the XeRay 50. By the time I got to the Xe 50 conditions had deteriorated considerably. 

I hope this helps understand the images somewhat. It will be awhile before I'm able to get back out and hopefully take some shots with improved setup and technique, This was a fun learning experience.

Cowley


----------



## BVH

You certainly seem to have very stealthily amassed a nice arsenal of "weapons of mass illumination", Cowley! Congrats! What else you got up your sleeve?


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> Pat36, On the side, we could have a Leica CRF1200 rangefinder "shootout".
> 
> In the very first 3 shots you posted, the color temp of the X50 just looks way off, not necessarily the brightness - although it looks a bit dim but I would not swear to it. All three light have the same color temp bulb, give or take a hundred or so Kelvins.




It would be funny to see if one was more powerful than another. If Lips was to go he could drop a 4.2V RCR2 battery in there to step it up a bit..oo:
I'm just kidding....don't try it! 


Maybe the bulb is sick on the Xe50 as Mac suggested. 





* Cowley*, thanks for the announcement because there have been people asking me asking about where the Xe50 came from. I want to respect your anonymity until you were ready to share. 

Thank you again for the photos and I thought you did awesome for your first try!! :thumbsup: I hope the PM made sense with regards to you next attempt. 

Paul


P.S. Britt, if you still have the large photos and wouldn't mind sending them to me. I'll crop out just the area around the tree and post a gif image of them. I'll sent you a PM with my email if you tell me it's ok.


----------



## BVH

Patriot36 said:


> If Lips was to go he could drop a 4.2V RCR2 battery in there to step it up a bit..oo:
> I'm just kidding....don't try it!


----------



## Cowley

Patriot36 said:


> It would be funny to see if one was more powerful than another. If Lips was to go he could drop a 4.2V RCR2 battery in there to step it up a bit..oo:
> I'm just kidding....don't try it!
> 
> 
> Maybe the bulb is sick on the Xe50 as Mac suggested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Cowley*, thanks for the announcement because there have been people asking me asking about where the Xe50 came from. I want to respect your anonymity until you were ready to share.
> 
> Thank you again for the photos and I thought you did awesome for your first try!! :thumbsup: I hope the PM made sense with regards to you next attempt.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> P.S. Britt, if you still have the large photos and wouldn't mind sending them to me. I'll crop out just the area around the tree and post a gif image of them. I'll sent you a PM with my email if you tell me it's ok.


Thanks for all the input and suggestions Pat36. I was traveling today and was really surprised at the great work you have done with my images. I was able to log on with my Blackberry, but it is not really a great way to follow a thread.

BVH... yea I have unfortunately been able to acquire a pretty good list in my brief, but highly addicted time as a flashaholic. 

This all started out with a need and my search for a well made and bright searchlight. I initially contacted Dan at XeRay/Aerovision and he was very helpful in offering information and guided me to this forum. My first HID light was purchased from Dan and it won't be my last. Likewise, Likewise I couldn't be happier with the PH-50. The Xe and the PH are both great lights, but different in there own special way and not the least of which is price. Sorry for the long post.

Cowley


----------



## Mr Ted Bear

the xeray color temp is way off. i have several hundred photos of the xeray 50 (first design reflector) compared with the polarion p1, x1, and helios 40.


in two weeks, we will reshoot the te xeray 50 and bb, and all versions of the polarion, plus a few others.

who can teach me how to make gif from jpeg ?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Patriot36 said:


> Ok, here they are. Xe50, Xe75 (BB), and PH50
> 
> As you're experienced eyes will notice right away. The camera and lights are not in the exact same position from shot to shot. *
> 
> Edit: Cropped images added to show the light beyond the fence line:*


Now we're gettin' in the groove......."first blood".....anticipating some early reactions, Patriot pre-emptively raises both the camera/light angle discrepancy, and some fancy footwork image cropping....leaving the audience dazzled, and not quite sure what the topic was. Brilliant! 



BVH said:


> Pat36, was the Xeray50 color really that much different in-person than the Xeray75 as the photo shows? I remember when we did shootout 3, the color of each was pretty much the same. Are all the shots under-exposed or normal exposure?



BVH takes the bait and sheepishly raises some color/exposure questions. 



Patriot36 said:


> All three are under expossed by at least a stop...maybe 2. All three of course were manual exposure and all three set to "daylight."


Patriot follows with three left jabs that all fall short....or was it two? A flurry of images race by. :candle:



Lips said:


> It may be just me but that *Xeray* light looks like it may have a *cold* or somethings going wrong with it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hear there's a secret switch on the Xeray ballast too, don't even think about it :naughty:



Lips jumps into the fray with some noob mumbo-jumbo, but still stinging from "busted ballast syndrome." :mecry:



Patriot36 said:


> You're welcome Lips.
> 
> It seems to be consistent which regards to the comparison of the Polarion P1 35W and the Xe50 in earlier photos. Although the Xe50 was brighter it wasn't out of the ballpark brighter and actually the P1 had a hotter spot right in the center...though very small. With the addition of 2000 lumens from the PH50 it seems to fit right into the puzzle nicely. When BVH does his shoot-off we'll get another Xe50 example in there (hopefully) which will be nice and give even more credibility to the differences. Additionally I'm hoping for some more comparison shots of the Xe50 and PH50 in the coming weeks. In these two examples pics thus far, the PH50 seems to be showing off.



Patriot deftly interweaves some past confusion with future promises....hoping that everyone is satisfied and reassured.



LuxLuthor said:


> Oh boy, here we go with the Polarion vs. XeRay beam shot controversies again! LOL! The PH shot is misleading because it catches all the pretty green grass closer, which gives a subjective impression of being brighter overall.
> 
> Remember that last go around with the variations in prototype vs. production reflectors, different bulbs, and zoom position of XeRay? LOL! Ohhhh Nooooo......Mr. Bill !!!!!!


Lux goads innocently. :devil:



Patriot36 said:


> That's all true Lux.... I'm working on some crops which will overlay the two tree images to be closer which will have the added benefit of bypassing all the PH50's pretty spill. I won't have those ready for a couple of hours, unless I get a wild hair.
> 
> At least we can agree that these are all production reflectors and the XeVision lights were at tight focus. So we can rule out those two variables.


Patriot is charged with "delay of game."



karlthev said:


> If I get up in the wee hours again, out I'll go for another shoot out!
> 
> Karl


Karl goes back to bed, and Patriot suddenly splits the images. A cry of "FOUL" bellows out from the crowd. 



Nitro said:


> Is it just me, or does that Xe50 have one ugly beam? I'd think the Xe50 would look like the BB, but just dimmer. I'm curious to see other Xe50's to see if they look any better.



Nitro raises the "Your Mom Wears Army Boots" challenge. 



cmacclel said:


> I think your XeRay or Bulb is defective. I had both the X1 and Helios and the XeRay had a noticeably brighter spot. In almost all the other posted beamshots the color temp is close between the 2 lights in the last series of beamshots there is a huge difference.
> 
> Mac



Oh man, out of nowhere, Mac throws down the infamous "defective XeRay bulb" gauntlet.  :laughing:



Patriot36 said:


> I can ask the owner if he has another 50W bulb I suppose. It's certainly possible that the color is off some. I'm working on borrowing another Xe-50 and BVH will be doing a full shootout about two weeks from now.
> 
> As for as the Xe50 brightness/intensity/hotspot goes in the photos above go, you can see from the upper split pictures that it's by no means dim. In the pictures that you're referring to the Xe50 has a "noticeably brighter spot" because it's was going up against a bunch of 35W-40W lights, with the exception of the BB. In these shots it's being compared with other another 50W watt light and the BB. I think the Xe50 is doing pretty good down range it's just coming up short in the corona and spill, which is nothing new for the Xeray lights.



Patriot looks behind him, saying "who...me?"....then adroitly pulls the old "Three Bulb Monty" switcharoo strategy. The audience is hypnotized into submission with more fancy footwork, and an array of images, splits, and gifs. The crowd pretends to understand and sits back down, now quite sure what the topic was again. :thinking:



BVH said:


> Pat36, On the side, we could have a Leica CRF1200 rangefinder "shootout".
> 
> In the very first 3 shots you posted, the color temp of the X50 just looks way off, not necessarily the brightness - although it looks a bit dim but I would not swear to it. All three lights have the same color temp bulb, give or take a hundred or so Kelvins.



Unable to contain his new Leica toy--joy, BVH distracts, then counter challenges with the infamous color temp & dim/brightness double pump-fake maneuver. Brutal. 



Cowley said:


> Ok I have to come clean. I'm the neophyte beamshooter that Patriot has been covering for. This is my first attempt at taking beamshot images and it certainly shows. This was a quick grab and go attempt after a long hard week at work. In reviewing the results I have learned a lot about proper setup and execution. I need to add a few comments to shed some light on the images. In real life the XeRay 50 looked close or even a little brighter at the hotspot when aimed at the intended target(s). I also do not remember the degree of color difference as depicted in the photos. As pointed out earlier, the PH-50 beam with its increased spill on the green grass certainly makes the overall image brighter. I have looked over the original images that are much, much larger files and I can't figure out why the XeRay images are not as I saw them other than the following. One variable that changed during the evening was the amount of particulate in the air. The shot order was the XeRay BB first, the PH-50, and then the XeRay 50. By the time I got to the Xe 50 conditions had deteriorated considerably.
> 
> I hope this helps understand the images somewhat. It will be awhile before I'm able to get back out and hopefully take some shots with improved setup and technique, This was a fun learning experience.
> 
> Cowley



WoW, out of nowhere, the rookie from Kansas takes one for the team. The crowd applaud nobly, :welcome: followed by hushed snickering among themselves. ...with several chortling with frustration about the dead end this just created. 

Oh yeah, the game is on. :devil: The game is definitely on. _

(All comments intended in good natured fun)_


----------



## Patriot

Oh my gosh* Lux*.....ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Freaking hilarious! My eyes are watering.....Hahaaaa.


Just for that....I'm going to make my 3000th post!! with proof that I have no life..lol.

















388 yard images, compliments of *Cowley*...I mean "the rookie from Kansas"


----------



## Patriot

Mr Ted Bear said:


> the xeray color temp is way off. i have several hundred photos of the xeray 50 (first design reflector) compared with the polarion p1, x1, and helios 40.
> 
> 
> in two weeks, we will reshoot the te xeray 50 and bb, and all versions of the polarion, plus a few others.
> 
> who can teach me how to make gif from jpeg ?




Lips, Lux or me.

or you can fiddle: 
http://www.download.com/Beneton-Movie-GIF/3000-2186_4-10566148.html?tag=lst-1&cdlPid=10788974


----------



## Mr Ted Bear

The crowd is going wild !!! Wait Wait.... an offical protest has been filed with the league commissioner, they are conferencing on the field reviewing the tapes

On no... something is not right..."flash fired, flash mode"

Daylight white balance has been invalidated

Rematch has been declared


----------



## Patriot

Mr Ted Bear said:


> The crowd is going wild !!! Wait Wait.... an offical protest has been filed with the league commissioner, they are conferencing on the field reviewing the tapes
> 
> On no... something is not right..."flash fired, flash mode"
> 
> Daylight white balance has been invalidated
> 
> Rematch has been declared




Ah....finally the mystery is solved. (breaths sigh of relief) Thank Mr Bear!  

I guess that makes sense since the Xe50 pics at 350 & 388 yards looked fine.


----------



## Lips

LuxLuthor said:


> Now we're gettin' in the groove......."first blood".....anticipating some early reactions, Patriot pre-emptively raises both the camera/light angle discrepancy, and some fancy footwork image cropping....leaving the audience dazzled, and not quite sure what the topic was. Brilliant!
> 
> 
> 
> WoW, out of nowhere, the rookie from Kansas takes one for the team. The crowd applaud nobly, :welcome: followed by hushed snickering among themselves. ...with several chortling with frustration about the dead end this just created.
> 
> Oh yeah, the game is on. :devil: The game is definitely on. _
> 
> (All comments intended in good natured fun)_




LOL







*Mr Ted Bear* I'd be glad to show you how the giff's are done as you were my inspiration for getting into HID's with your shoot-outs. I use photo shop elements and if you have that it's very simple to do. A starting resolution of at least 1600 x 1200 usually helps with the giff as the change from jpg reduces quality... Cheap morph software makes great avi morphing videos also...



Cheers


----------



## GhostReaction

Lux!


I m staying tune for the rematch 

and definately gettign the grandstand seats for Mr Bear shootout 
...................


----------



## karlthev

The following heard at home.....

"Karl, what the devil are you looking at on that computer"??? :ironic: "It's the BB, Xe50, PH50 shootout honey"!!!  "For God's sake, they're just FLASHLIGHTS"!!!!! :scowl: "Dial 911 quick, I think you just broke my heart"!!!!



Karl


----------



## BVH

Lux, you've outdone even yourself on this one!! What a classic this will be in the annals of CPF! Thank you for setting the stage for the upcoming shoot and peaking interest. Well, Well done, sir! :thumbsup: It was so entertaining, I had to read it 3 times.


----------



## karlthev

BVH said:


> Lux, you've outdone even yourself on this one!! What a classic this will be in the annals of CPF! Thank you for setting the stage for the upcoming shoot and peaking interest. Well, Well done, sir! :thumbsup: It was so entertaining, I had to read it 3 times.





I have to steal your post...Lux, it was the best!:thumbsup:


karl


----------



## DM51

Mr. Luthor takes charge, lol!


----------



## Cowley

Mr Ted Bear said:


> The crowd is going wild !!! Wait Wait.... an offical protest has been filed with the league commissioner, they are conferencing on the field reviewing the tapes
> 
> On no... something is not right..."flash fired, flash mode"
> 
> Daylight white balance has been invalidated
> 
> Rematch has been declared


Mr. Ted thanks for catching this error on my part. When I sent the link to Pat36 I mentioned that the XeRay 50 images did not look like what I saw in the field. This image was taken after a quick refreshment break consisting of one of Scotland's finest and I must have not checked the flash status. I PM'd Pat36 that I had posted some new images that do in fact have the flash off and they much better reflect what I was seeing. One of these days I will have the time to learn the steps of posting images here. In the meantime thanks for all of your help Patriot!


----------



## Patriot

You're welcome and thanks for the new images Cowley. I'll work on them this afternoon.




I think you'll like these newest ones you guys....good stuff!





DM51, I love the Lux Luthor pic! ............. that fits classically!! LOL. I'm still laughing at his post.


----------



## Flashanator

Patriot, nice pics on your 3000th post,

but the Xe50 looks weak compared to PH50.


----------



## Cowley

Flashanator 500mW said:


> Patriot, nice pics on your 3000th post,
> 
> but the Xe50 looks weak compared to PH50.


Flashanator,

Mr. Ted Bear uncovered some problems with my first set of Xe-50 images. Patriot should have another set of mine posted this afternoon that will more accurately depict the actual comparisons. My eyes and the images on my monitor show me that the PH-50 has more spill, but there may be just a touch more brightness in the very center on the Xe-50. It's really too close for my inexperienced eyes to call.

Edit for missed keystrokes


----------



## Patriot

Flashanator 500mW said:


> Patriot, nice pics on your 3000th post,
> 
> but the Xe50 looks weak compared to PH50.





I checked for accidental flash settings with the those three pictures and the flash was off on all of those. They should be more accurate than the ones posted at 269 yards.

Cowley is correct in that the Xe50 is throwing more light farther to the tree line while the PH50 is putting more light closer. The more collimated the entire beam is, the farther it will throw, the smaller and dimmer it will appear in wide angle pictures. If you could see the same picture with a 200mm lens, the PH50 would look weaker than the Xe50.


----------



## Patriot

More pictures, compliments of *Cowley

*
*These three were all taken at 137 yards.*

















*Xe50 PH50 Xe75 gif*






*Xe50 PH50 gif*






*Xe50 Xe75 gif*







The Xe75 was aimed lower than the other two lights but I still thank *Cowley* for the images.


.


----------



## BVH

At the risk of "taking the bait" (lux, are you taking notes? :nana the color temps look much more normal relative to each other. Thanks Cowley and Pat36.


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> At the risk of "taking the bait" (lux, are you taking notes? :nana the color temps look much more normal relative to each other. Thanks Cowley and Pat36.




That was a great catch by Mr. Bear earlier, to notice that the flash fired. Although they were all set to "daylight" white balance, it had a huge effect on the color in that 269 yard shot. These newest ones all look great imo.


----------



## Cowley

Lux you may have a future with ESPN as a play by play analyst! Keep up the good work.

Cowley


----------



## Gunner12

I've been following this thread. The PH50 seems like a great light, but but the time I get enough money to buy one, the 300 watt version would probably be out :lolsign:

Thanks to everyone for the great work(sorry Lips for the lost of you light)!
:goodjob:


----------



## Patriot

Gunner12 said:


> I've been following this thread. The PH50 seems like a great light, but but the time I get enough money to buy one, the 300 watt version would probably be out :lolsign:
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the great work(sorry Lips for the lost of you light)!
> :goodjob:





You could always look for a deal on an X1 or PH40. I might know someone who's selling a PH40


----------



## Gunner12

It's more about not being old enough then having the money(still in high school).

I'll get a HID within a few years though.

Wonder what Polarion has next...


----------



## Patriot

Gunner12 said:


> Wonder what Polarion has next...




Well, the talk is that it will be a compact 30W-35W light....smaller than the X1 of course.


----------



## GhostReaction

The PH50 is spilling more lumens from my observation. Even though the XE50 has a slightly brighter hotspot; the PH50 looks like the winner... well if you dont take the BarnBurner into account :duh2:

OF Cos I may be wrong and somebody would like to correct my observation. :thinking:


Shamless OT: 
DAN! if ever you making anymore 75W BarnBurner:rock: please do hook me up again


----------



## XeRay

GhostReaction said:


> DAN! if ever you making anymore 75W BarnBurner:rock: please do hook me up again


 
I never quite understood why you sold yours at all or so soon (a few months), after your GB purchase.


----------



## lasercrazy

XeRay said:


> I never quite understood why you sold yours at all or so soon (a few months), after your GB purchase.


I never understood why anyone would ever sell their BarnBurner. 

(Happy BarnBurner owner )


----------



## Patriot

I knew at one time how many BB are floating around out there, but forgot somewhere along the way. I thought it was about 40 but I could be way off. 

In any case they sure do seem far and few between. When I've had the money to purchase they haven't been available and visa versa.

Every time I see beam shots of that light I'm blown away. I imagine that it will hold the title for years to come in HID portable spotlights.


----------



## GhostReaction

Hmm... IIRC, sold the BarnBurner somewhere January last year to a buddy in South America.

Wife and I had our first baby on Chirstmas eve 2006  
It was a sad sacrifice on my part just so that we could buy baby stuff. :thumbsup:


BTW the case that these Helios came in are damn tough! My toddler love to step and play on it


----------



## Patriot

*Edit:

Gif images moved to post #1*


----------



## LuxLuthor

I posted the two lists of original BB & Upgraders in this post for Flashinator.

I think I see a group of illegal aliens in one of those gifs. Actually, I take that back, now that I look more closely they are obviously Orcs streaming from Mordor :wave:.


----------



## Flashanator

geeez, that PH50 stomps the PH40. AMAZING LIGHT 

Patriot, if u ever see a slow car struggling up a steep hill, be sure to shine your PH50 at it from behind to give it a boost up the hill. But if the paint on the car starts to melt, well.


----------



## Patriot

I made it back out to the church tonight for some more PH40 vs. PH50. They're similar in many ways but I think I like these a little bit better.


The Church steeple is now *368 yards*, the mountainside to either side of the steeple is about *654 yards*. Both lights are aimed with the collimated portion of the beam on the steeple.








gif







Same shot sequence zoomed








gif






This time the beam center is aimed at a huge Cottonwood tree at *414 yards*. The mountain behind the tree is about *615 yards* to either side, and a bit further above it. I like these pictures because the corona can be seen intensely on the ground and less intensely on the distance church. I tried several exposure settings until this on came closest to what my eyes were seeing.









gif







One last interesting shot of the PH50 at *904 yards* to the center of the picture. The lens is zoomed to approximately 250mm and looks very much like it did through my range finder with quite a bit of light up there.


----------



## adamlau

Very nice, Pat36 :twothumbs . Me gusto mucho ...
PH40 vs. PH50 images with brightness levels increased by 25%...


----------



## TheGreyEminence

A great thank you to Patriot36 and Adamlau for those great beamshots and gif´s! Excellent Job! :wave:
Now i´m even more happy to own these two lights 

Regards...


----------



## karlthev

Great shots and subjects and, most of all, the information on the distances all invaluable information! Now, the Maxabeam....?:devil:



Karl


----------



## Flashanator

Maxabeam? 

ThE Throw :whoopin:

So the 25% + brightness for ppl with dark monitors?


----------



## BVH

Very nice choice of targets to illustrate the differences. Well Done!


----------



## Patriot

> *karlthev*
> Great shots and subjects and, most of all, the information on the distances all invaluable information! Now, the Maxabeam....?:devil:


Woohoo!! I'm excited about the MB.

The target ranges often turn out to be further than I suspect because the Polarion's reach out so well. At one point I had questioned why the range to the mountain behind the cottonwood tree was closer than the range to the mountain behind the church. The mountain runs at a diagonal, closer on the left and getting further away on the right. I'm going to see if I can google image the site.






> *TheGreyIminence*
> Now i´m even more happy to own these two lights


They're a nice pair. I see that you still own your WiseLED too. Nice light!





> *Flashanator*
> So the 25% + brightness for ppl with dark monitors?


Adam did that for us, maybe just to give a different overall perspective by showing with them with more light than it actually appeared to the eye.





> *BVH*
> Very nice choice of targets to illustrate the differences. Well Done!


Thanks Bob, I really liked how the eye could see that the target was the steeple which was brighter that the front of the church just below it. Sometimes it's so hard to see exactly where the Polarion is aimed because of the large, bright, corona but I thought these left little question of the aiming point. I also like the cottonwood tree shots because of the way the church was lit up to the side.


----------



## Nitro

karlthev said:


> Great shots and subjects and, most of all, the information on the distances all invaluable information! Now, the Maxabeam....?:devil:


 
Maxabeam? Talk about apples and oranges. 1000 ft is nothing for the MB.


----------



## Patriot

Nitro said:


> Maxabeam? Talk about apples and oranges. 1000 ft is nothing for the MB.




It was sort of and inside comment to me Nitro. Karl was referring the the Maxabeam group buy interest thread over in the Marketplace.


----------



## Nitro

Patriot36 said:


> It was sort of and inside comment to me Nitro. Karl was referring the the Maxabeam group buy interest thread over in the Marketplace.


I knew that. 

It would be cool to see the MB lightup that steeple though.


----------



## Patriot

Nitro said:


> I knew that.
> 
> It would be cool to see the MB lightup that steeple though.




Depending on what comes from that feeler thread you might get to see just that. I also have a fellow CPFer and friend locally who has a MB. Maybe we'll go out to that location one of these days.


----------



## karlthev

Yeah, I've got some personal interest in that one myself! :naughty: In the meantime though, I wonder what the progress may be on the higher capacity batteries for the thread topic right here, the PH50?


Karl


----------



## LuxLuthor

I'm setting my MaxaBeam with A123 pack. Getting the parts this week.

Also, it would be interesting to see show comparison with the collimating lens on MaxaBeam. See note from Bob @ PeakBeam in other thread I started about the effect it has dialing all the way down from flood.


----------



## Patriot

karlthev said:


> Yeah, I've got some personal interest in that one myself! :naughty: In the meantime though, I wonder what the progress may be on the higher capacity batteries for the thread topic right here, the PH50?
> 
> 
> Karl




I'm not sure Karl. I reposted that question in the GB thread hoping to hear from Ken or David. The battery was announce several months ago so I'm kinda wondering what the delay is.




Lux, a bit off the PH50 topic, but I was wondering what you thought of 8 A123's (two sets of four) wired in parallel? I guess that would provide about an hour of run-time right? Also, do you plan on housing the A123's in some kind of casing or container so that the light and batteries are all in one unit?


----------



## LuxLuthor

Patriot36 said:


> Lux, a bit off the PH50 topic, but I was wondering what you thought of 8 A123's (two sets of four) wired in parallel? I guess that would provide about an hour of run-time right? Also, do you plan on housing the A123's in some kind of casing or container so that the light and batteries are all in one unit?



Yeah, sorry for distracting from this topic...but just a quick answer. I'm starting with 4s which lasts 30 mins....easier/lighter/cheaper to setup. You can fast charge these A123 in 15 mins. Then I plan to make a box out of black plexiglass & router out matching mounting holes to clip on bottom.


----------



## DM51

Still off-topic on the same tangent, another quick answer: 4s A123 is excellent - small, light and pocketable ( 5.5" x 2" x 1").


----------



## Patriot

Good info guys, thanks. If this GB thing works out for the light by itself I'll be going the A123 route. I've seen XPLRN's four pack and was impressed with its size and and capacity.


----------



## Lips

.



I noticed the lights in my house seemed dim today, even brownish...

















Then I remembered the big *shoot-out* tonight, they must be *charging* all those batteries :naughty:





Have fun guys & keep us posted:twothumbs​



.


----------



## BVH

You betcha! My meter wheel was zinging at mach 10. We have at least 24 HID's and 5 or so Incands.


----------



## seery

CONGRATS to all the PH-50 owners, very nice lights indeed. :twothumbs

Anyone have a few pics looking down the barrel? :naughty:


----------



## 4sevens

seery said:


> CONGRATS to all the PH-50 owners, very nice lights indeed. :twothumbs
> 
> Anyone have a few pics looking down the barrel? :naughty:



Did you see these picts further up in this thread? 



4sevens said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> I just now discovered this thread!
> Looks like we're having lots of fun with the PH50's!
> 
> I have some pictures to contribute from 2008 Shot show in February.
> (We had a pre-production PH50 for testing at the shoot out)
> 
> Gratuitous Rothrandir tests at 1 meter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shutter speed increased to 1/1000 (to capture the grimace on his face)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice smile!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roth vs PH50
> 
> Roth gets a tan with a silhouette of his hand on his face!
> Roth loses


----------



## Patriot

seery said:


> Anyone have a few pics looking down the barrel? :naughty:





Seriously? I'll take some pictures for you if you want some....you mean like, close-ups of the reflector and bulb?


----------



## adamlau

Flashanator 500mW said:


> So the 25% + brightness for ppl with dark monitors?


I increase brightness levels to reveal details in both overexposed and underexposed areas which would remain hidden otherwise. This is in contrast to other methods (e.g. mapping and adjusting intensity levels), which tend to introduce noise and artifacts to corrected images.


----------



## Patriot

seery said:


> Anyone have a few pics looking down the barrel? :naughty:


----------



## adamlau

*PH50 Reflector*











*Xe50 vs. PH50 vs. Xe75*

Canon SD1000
ISO Setting: 100
Lens Aperture: F2.8
Exposure: 1 Second
White Balance: Tungsten
Distance: ~255 Yards

XeRay 50W > Polarion PH50 > XeRay 75W





*Animated Notes*

1. Frame delay looped at 300 centiseconds (3 seconds).
2. Brightness levels increased in order to reveal over and underexposed details.
3. Images unlabeled to prevent further pixelixation and loss of details and resolution.

*Additional References*

Beamshots: Xe50 vs. PH50 vs. Xe75
Beamshots: Group 5 HB2 vs. Polarion PH50


----------



## GhostReaction

Thanks Adam those beamshots are great.

Is the PH50 still the fastest (cold start) to ignite among all the other HID you tested.


----------



## Patriot

Ken or David, I was just curious if there were any updates or time estimate regarding new batteries yet?

Thanks


----------



## 4sevens

Patriot36 said:


> Ken or David, I was just curious if there were any updates or time estimate regarding new batteries yet?
> 
> Thanks



Patriot - I haven't heard anything from Ken yet, but I'm sure he would immediately let us know when it becomes available.

I just got back from blade show this weekend. It was a blast. Everytime we 
turned on the PH50 there are gasps from people in shock. Many times it would
generate a crowd at our booth


----------



## Patriot

4sevens said:


> Patriot - I haven't heard anything from Ken yet, but I'm sure he would immediately let us know when it becomes available.
> 
> I just got back from blade show this weekend. It was a blast. Everytime we
> turned on the PH50 there are gasps from people in shock. Many times it would
> generate a crowd at our booth




Your own little, indoor, "coming attraction" light huh David!? 

Kind makes we wonder if there's an equivalent of it in the knife world. Maybe a custom sword maker or something.


----------



## adamlau

*PH50 Warm Up & Restrike*

Download: Polarion.PH50.Warm.Up.Restrike.divx - 3 MB
SHA1: B377E861DF4C54DDDF2E820EB7B425F9BC1B4436

1 Second *|* 5 Seconds *|* 10 Seconds *|* 20 Seconds *|* 30 Seconds





*Video Notes*Length: 49 Seconds
Image Size: 640x480
Format: DivX HD 1080p​


----------



## GhostReaction

:rock: recieved my diffuser! Now I own my personal portable stadium light =)


----------



## Patriot

adamlau said:


> *PH50 Warm Up & Restrike*
> 
> Download: Polarion.PH50.Warm.Up.Restrike.divx - 3 MB
> SHA1: B377E861DF4C54DDDF2E820EB7B425F9BC1B4436
> 
> 1 Second *|* 5 Seconds *|* 10 Seconds *|* 20 Seconds *|* 30 Seconds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Video Notes*Length: 49 Seconds
> Image Size: 640x480
> Format: DivX HD 1080p​





Adam, I almost missed your post. It's a great video of the warm-up and tint change. I couldn't even see the camera compensating for the increasing light. Was it compensating? It was almost like watching it with the naked eye! I could easily hear the igniter flashing away too. Thanks for posting the first PH50 video.

EDIT. Ok, I can see in the 5 images that the camera compensated but it sure did it smoothly. Must be nice video equipment. It's interesting to have verification that it does take about 20 seconds for the color to stabilize. Very fast for HID though.


----------



## Patriot

GhostReaction said:


> :rock: recieved my diffuser! Now I own my personal portable stadium light =)




Pictures please


----------



## Patriot

P series, double o-ring give away thread here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2529960#post2529960


----------



## Joe_torch

Just received my PH50 last Saturday and turned it on several times inside the house. This made me partially blind.

Last night, I got a chance to do some shoot out. I went to a beach which get an island just opposite to it. I turned the light on & test the raw power of the light. Eventually, I light up the beach & the tree line of the opposite island.

There is a small hill near my home. Before I finished my first shoot out, I successfully illuminated the tree line and the building which is located near the top of the hill.

Even I have read this thread and watched the beam shots of the PH50 many many times, and I already get well prepared for the insance output of this light, I am completely blown away when I see the light's performance in person.

Now, my major problem is how to find a suitable place to do the future shoot out without attracting too much attention.

Thanks

Joe


----------



## adamlau

Joe_torch said:


> ...my major problem is how to find a suitable place to do the future shoot out without attracting too much attention.


I circumvent that very problem by not worrying about attracting attention. I throw my lights everywhere and in every which direction, only avoiding aircraft, vehicles and people. If you happen to have friends who work in law enforcement, take them along with your during your shootout.


----------



## Flashanator

Has any PH50 owners got the diffuser lens? Maybe you can take some beamshots?


----------



## Joe_torch

Thanks Adam. Very good suggestion.
When I get used to the great output of the light, I will convince myself that it is the same whether I turn on PH50 or a Fenix P3D and use it freely without much worry.

A few minor questions:
- When I fully tightened the tail cap, I can't turn the light on. I have to loosen it a little to make it function. Is it normal?
- One spare o ring is shipped with my light. When I'm going to use it, is it necessary to lubricate it first?
- My light doesn't has the serial no. on the body.


Thanks

Joe


----------



## guiri

adamlau said:


> *MN21 vs. PH50*
> 
> MN21 off Moli 2xIMR18650 *|* Polarion Helios PH50



Pardon my ignorance but shouldn't the difference be bigger?

I mean, 500 vs 5000 lumens?

George


----------



## Joe_torch

Joe_torch said:


> A few minor questions:
> - When I fully tightened the tail cap, I can't turn the light on. I have to loosen it a little to make it function. Is it normal?


 
I have to leave a little gap (about 1.5mm) between the tail cap & the body to let the light to be able to turn on & off.
Will it affect the waterproofness of the light?

Best regards

Joe


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## Patriot

Joe, I haven't found that to be the case with mine. If I fully tighten the stock tailcap it functions properly. The machined tailcap that I purchased separately doesn't seat against the body and leaves 1-1.5mm gap though. As far as water entry goes, as long as the tailcap inner wall overlaps the o-ring seal there is no compromise in resistance.


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## adamlau

Patriot36 said:


> ...I haven't found that to be the case with mine. If I fully tighten the stock tailcap it functions properly.


Roger that. No issues with switching the light on when the tailcap is fully tightened.


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## Ken J. Good

Joe_Torch

We need to get that light back. 
The tailcap should fully seat and you should have no switching issues.

Contact me at: [email protected] so I can address that for you.


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## Ken J. Good

guiri said:


> Pardon my ignorance but shouldn't the difference be bigger?
> 
> I mean, 500 vs 5000 lumens?
> 
> George




Yes, you would think 500 lumens would do better than that....


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## 4sevens

guiri said:


> Pardon my ignorance but shouldn't the difference be bigger?
> 
> I mean, 500 vs 5000 lumens?
> 
> George


George, keep in mind that a 2x difference is just enough to be
noticed. You really 
need 3x to 4x for your eyes to see "TWICE" the light. For example, 500 lumens
versus 1000 lumens would just be noticable. 500 lumens and 2000 lumens would
appear to be twice as bright.


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## Patriot

guiri said:


> Pardon my ignorance but shouldn't the difference be bigger?
> 
> I mean, 500 vs 5000 lumens?
> 
> George






I believe the discrepancy lies in the fact that M6 with MN21 on fresh primary batteries is actually more than 500 lumens. The rating is an average taken from lumens out of the front of the light, not just bulb lumens. The MN21 is then being overdriven on two 18650's, making it even brighter than with the primary battery configuration. The M6/MN21 in the photo is really over achieving, so the PH50 isn't going to appear ten times brighter than the M6...maybe more like 5 times brighter. 4sevens makes an excellent point concerning the apparent brightness variations which I think explains any remaining suggested loss by the PH50.


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## 4sevens

Patriot36 said:


> I believe the discrepancy lies in the fact that M6 with MN21 on fresh primary batteries is actually more than 500 lumens. The rating is an average taken from lumens out of the front of the light, not just bulb lumens. The MN21 is then being overdriven on two 18650's, making it even brighter than with the primary battery configuration. The M6/MN21 in the photo is really over achieving, so the PH50 isn't going to appear ten times brighter than the M6...maybe more like 5 times brighter. 4sevens makes an excellent point concerning the apparent brightness variations which I think explains any remaining suggested loss by the PH50.


To me that picture APPEARS 4x as bright - which according to my estimations 
is 500 X 4 X 4 = 8000 lumens. If you've played around with as many lights as I
have  your eyes start to be able gauge lumens. Absolute perception is
difficult, but when compared to a calibrated or verified source, you can get
easily get ballpark figure easily


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## guiri

4sevens said:


> George, keep in mind that a 2x difference is just enough to be
> noticed. You really
> need 3x to 4x for your eyes to see "TWICE" the light. For example, 500 lumens
> versus 1000 lumens would just be noticable. 500 lumens and 2000 lumens would
> appear to be twice as bright.



Well, I read that here somewhere which is why I didn't write something like 10x but I figured the difference should be MORE pronounced than what I see in the pictures.

George


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## Ken J. Good

Pictures tell a story, but not the whole story. Every situation and set of exposures can be different.

On scene searching with your own eyes/vision (the intended use for these lights) will let you know how much 5,000 lumens of properly harnessed light is compared to 500 lumens.
There is really no comparison in terms of actual capability to see in the ranges the HID starts flexing its muscles.

Here is a *4,000* lumen Poalrion PH40:
http://polarion-usa.com/images/PolarionPH40-4000Lumen.jpg
Note what you can see

Here is a Microfire that claims 3,200 lumens:
http://polarion-usa.com/images/MF-Claim3200Lumen.jpg

Here is a best of breed Surefire 500 lumen light:
http://polarion-usa.com/images/SFM6-500Lumen.jpg
This barely has enough light/throw to reflect light off the far goalpost on this football field


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## Patriot

Ken J. Good said:


> Here is a Microfire that claims 3,200 lumens:
> http://polarion-usa.com/images/MF-Claim3200Lumen.jpg





They actually claim 3500 lumens....which is even more comical :ironic:


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## guiri

Ken J. Good said:


> Here is a Microfire that claims 3,200 lumens:
> http://polarion-usa.com/images/MF-Claim3200Lumen.jpg



Looking at the pics, I'm thinking Microfire is laying it on pretty thick


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## Patriot

Here is a PH50 comparison reposted:

M6 MN21






PH50






The helpful thing about the picture above is that it's a stock M6 with HOLA. I'm assuming Ken's picture is also. Remember that the picture Adam posted of the M6 is a fairly high performance mod.


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## adamlau

*PH50 Diffuser Filter*


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## karlthev

How is the fit? My protection filter/screen fits Ok but isn't as tight as I'd like it. I think I'll find that I am checking to be sure it is on when I'll be walking around with it and using it for the protection feature.


Karl


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## Patriot

Nice pics Adam. It looks to be very well made. I was also curious about the fit and if it was any tighter than the way Karl described his.


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## karlthev

I guess it won't fall off but I 'd prefer if I had to use a bit more umph (ergs?) of force to get it on and off of the front of the light. My use is is for protection of the lens though and I won't be using it when in operation rather transportation so I guess it's OK...


Karl


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## Patriot

I know what you mean Karl. You'd like the thing to be perfect and I don't blame you. My feeling is that there shouldn't be any play or wiggle at all.

Props to Adam for posting the best pictures that I've ever seen of the diffuser. It makes me want to buy one. I really like to get some word about the updated battery though. It's been a very long wait since the announcement.


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## karlthev

Hope your 4th is turning out well Paul! Weather a bit gloomy out here in the East with overcast skies and chance of rain. I understand hot out in your neck of the woods.

I'm not holding my breath for the higher capacity power supply somehow...just not sure we'll see this...


Karl


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## Patriot

karlthev said:


> Hope your 4th is turning out well Paul! Weather a bit gloomy out here in the East with overcast skies and chance of rain. I understand hot out in your neck of the woods.
> 
> I'm not holding my breath for the higher capacity power supply somehow...just not sure we'll see this...
> 
> 
> Karl




Thanks Karl. It was a furnace out here yesterday...about 114 with some humidity. :sweat: Today it's a little less, under 110 I think. Clouds actually sound really nice right now. We're entering into the monsoon season now so maybe we'll get some shade one of these days.

With the lack of news or update I probably shouldn't be holding my breath either. It will be here when it's here, right! 
:sigh:


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## sledhead

Great picture of the diffuser Adam! I have a newer PH40( thanks to you guys and all the PH40/50 threads that I kept reading!) that I was thinking of getting one for. I'm thinking it turns it into a great area light?
Karl, looking forward to see your PH50 at PF12 or is it 11? Also just aquired a Graham Razel after seeing yours at the PF. 
Paul- 114 with humidity! Holy cow! 

Happy 4th, Sandy


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## adamlau

*PH50 w/ Diffuser Filter vs. PH50 w/o Diffuser Filter*

*Beam Shape:* w/ Diffuser Filter *|* w/o Diffuser Filter





*88 Yards:* Control *|* w Diffuser Filter *|* w/o Diffuser Filter (*Target = Play Structure @ 88 Yards*)





*135 Yards:* w/o Diffuser Filter *|* w/ Diffuser Filter (*Target = Tree @ 135 Yards*)





*105 Yards:* w/o Diffuser Filter (*Trailer @ 30 Yards*) *|* w/ Diffuser Filter (*Target = Tree @ 105 Yards*)





*White Wall:* w/o Diffuser Filter *|* w/ Diffuser Filter










*Beam Profile:* w/ Diffuser Filter *|* w/o Diffuser Filter





*Spill Pattern:* w/o Diffuser Filter (*Wall @ 25 Yards*) *|* w/ Diffuser Filter (*Target = Tree @ 55 Yards*)





*Quick Shot:* w/ Diffuser Filter *|* w/o Diffuser Filter (*Target = Tree @ 100 Yards*) 





*Additional Notes*1. The filter is installed and fully engaged in the filtered *Quick Shot*.
2. This results in the false appearance of the light shifted forwards relative to the first.
3. The focus of the PH50 was not redirected in any of the beamshots above.​*Diffuser Filter Initial Impressions*1. Diffuser Filter shapes the beam into hexagonal sections.
2. Exterior surface of the lens is particularly slick and smooth and may be coated.
3. Lens appears to be manufactured of glass, lending itself to increased light transmission.
4. Lens housing appears to be of the same composite material as that of the body of the PH50.
5. Filtered beam completely engulfs an area (ft) of 25H x 35W at a distance of less than 100 ft.
6. Simple, twist-lock installation with very little play upon full engagement.​


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## Patriot

Thanks again Adam. This accessory is growing on me more and more. I had just assumed it was a type of lexan material, so to hear that it is most likely glass further stirs my interest. I might have to order one now.


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## Flashanator

Awesome diffuser filter! This light is amazing!!!!!!!

:twothumbs

LOL Patriot! I hate that kind of heat + humidity.


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## karlthev

Thanks Adam, sounding better and better!

Karl


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## adamlau

What do you guys think of using the Elephant II 8x18650 holder + cells as a power source option? Might have to modify the contacts of the holder, however. Anyone with an EII holder and a PH40/50 care to comment?


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## sledhead

Thanks for taking the time for these photos. May have to move this up the want list.:twothumbs


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## Patriot

adamlau said:


> What do you guys think of using the Elephant II 8x18650 holder + cells as a power source option? Might have to modify the contacts of the holder, however. Anyone with an EII holder and a PH40/50 care to comment?


 

EDIT

I haven't seen the elephant holder yet...it is the correct dimensions?


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## Joe_torch

Adam: Very nice pic. Will the diffuser filter reduce the output of the light at the front end?

Regarding the color filters, are they designed for special usage?

Thanks

Joe


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## DM51

Very useful pics - thanks, Adam. 

I somehow imagined this diffuser would spread the beam a lot wider than shown in the pics, perhaps the same angle covered by a standard camera lens.


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## Patriot

DM51 said:


> Very useful pics - thanks, Adam.
> 
> I somehow imagined this diffuser would spread the beam a lot wider than shown in the pics, perhaps the same angle covered by a standard camera lens.




I'm wondering if the spill light is also increase substantially and just not showing up due to the exposure. Maybe it is lighting up an fairly wide angle such as something a 35mm lens would capture...purely guess though...

Adam, what focal length is that particular lense?


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## adamlau

The outdoor shots were taken with a Canon SD1000 = 35mm equivalent. Offhand, immediate spill is reduced due to:

1. The composite filter frame extending past the bezel. 
2. The filter lens being of a smaller diameter than the bezel lens

I will be taking additional beamshots in an attempt to better describe the signature the diffuser filter allows for...


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## Patriot

I'd enjoy seeing those Adam. Due to your recent posts, I've pretty much a;already decided that I'm going to order a diffuser.


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## DM51

Patriot36 said:


> I'm going to order a diffuser


$?


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## karlthev

I just checked the other day....$100 or $110, I forget which. I'm probably going to be in the market for one as well--most likely it will see more use than the protective "filter" which I bought before.



Karl


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## Joe_torch

$100 is for the color filter, diffuser filter is priced at $110.
here is the link: http://www.polarion-store.com/pd_filters.cfm
Regarding the color filters, are they really useful?

Thanks

Joe


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## karlthev

Maybe Ken Good can jump in here for some technical expertise--I haven't a clue.:shrug:


Karl


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## Ken J. Good

Amber: Fog
One of customers has a farm in central California. Specially emailed me about the effectiveness of the Amber filter in fog.

Blue: Blood Trails

Red/Green: Signaling/communication or you just may like the colors green and red?

Polarion also makes a unique diffusion/green filter used by some some serious electronics companies in Korea. They use X1's and this filter to identify particulate matter down to 10 microns with the human eye. It apparently saves the company millions of dollars in the work flow and manufacturing process for their large screen displays.


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## LuxLuthor

Adamlau, just looked at this thread again....excellent photos....including all the way back to post #150 !!


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## Patriot

I also just realized the you added the additional diffuser photos. Man...you're getting good as this stuff!! The pics perfectly illustrate the difference between the beams. The diffuser produces a huge angle of light very evenly. I'm impressed both with the diffuser and Adam's skillZ!


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## adamlau

Thanks guys  . Little has been said about the durability of the PH50, so allow me to reveal how I have dropped the light on numerous occassions (including once on concrete), broken off the handle and dented the bezel to the point where it required bending back so that the diffuser filter could be installed. The lamp extinguished upon impact on all occassions (dropped from a minimum height of five feet, it was never the initial concussive force which extinguished the lamp, but rather secondary and tertiary bounce impacts), but was able to be instantly restruck. Epoxy and a pair of padded slip joint pliers are about all the tools one needs for minor PH50 repairs :twothumbs .


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## DM51

Crikey! And I was thinking _I_ was tough on mine!


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## karlthev

Well Adam, I guess I'd be in therapy after those maneuvers but, hats off to you for the "testing"---as well as the great pictures! "Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'" it seems! Good to hear.


Karl


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## Joe_torch

Ken: Thanks for the informations.

Adam: I'm glad to see your PH50 in real hard use & perform nicely. 


Joe


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## Patriot

Adam, you're a brute! Haha! :laughing:

My goodness.......... how about a picture of that bezel now.


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## adamlau

The bezel did its job of protecting the lens  ...


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## Gunner12

That's nice to see. But I'm still a bit disappointed that the handle broke off.

Besides the dent and the crack line, I'm guessing the light still looks pretty good.


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## Ken J. Good

Adam,

I can send you a new bezel at my cost if you are interested.

Let me know.


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## adamlau

Another example of great service from Polarion-USA :twothumbs . I hope to take you up on your offer if and when the head begins to show signs of failure, but I gather that may never happen as I know from first-hand experience just how hardy these handhelds are. The dent (which was initially in worse condition than pictured) on the bezel was incurred from a fall off the top of an eight-foot ladder onto a fully cured, 4000 psi concrete driveway w/ 25 percent fly ash content. This is about as hard and durable a concrete driveway gets as I specified and supervised the driveway pour for a client in the field of heavy machinery. A new head would likely never see itself installed as the current one has survived that and lesser drops without compromising much of anything. Inspired by cfromc in Surefire G2 Not Waterproof, the PH50 took an hour swim in a pool last night and came out unscathed through a number of submerged strikes and restrikes. Now back to beamshots  :

ISO Setting: 80
Exposure : 0.5
White Balance: Day Light
Distance: 23 Yards

*Spill Pattern:* w/ Diffuser Filter *|* w/o Diffuser Filter





Exposure : 1.0
Distance: 39 Yards

*Spill Pattern:* w/ Diffuser Filter *|* w/o Diffuser Filter





*Additional Notes*1. Manual exposure settings based on PH50 w/o Diffuser Filter with camera in Auto exposure mode.​


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## DM51

Amazing! An 8 ft drop on to solid concrete -another astonishing test survived by a Polarion! 

And a very fine gesture there from Ken.


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## Patriot

More amazing diffuser shots! These are the best yet when trying to compare. It seems that the diffuser also causes a noticable amount extra spill light also. Cool.


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## LuxLuthor

I have to quit looking at this topic, and sulk back into other room clutching my BB security blanket. Ken should hire adamlau to do Polarion promotions.


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## karlthev

Yes he is rather good with this isn't he? Is Ken Good watching? In the meantime Lux, why doncha try one, you'll like it!:devil:


Karl


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## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> I have to quit looking at this topic, and sulk back into other room clutching my BB security blanket. Ken should hire adamlau to do Polarion promotions.




But you have nice really nice diffuser for your Xeray lights too right?


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## karlthev

Yes, and it does work well. It's made of some type of transparent plastic. I was most interested hearing the one for the Polarion is of glass....correct?


Karl


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## Patriot

karlthev said:


> Yes, and it does work well. It's made of some type of transparent plastic. I was most interested hearing the one for the Polarion is of glass....correct?
> 
> 
> Karl




Um...yeah I think so. I believe Adam said that it was glass and fairly heavy. I'm surprised we don't each have one yet Karl.


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## karlthev

Ugh...or TWO!!!!:duh2:



Karl


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## adamlau

If anything, we are all part of its promotion  . And yes, two filters would be better than one :thumbsup: .


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## Sigman

Closing this one & continuing here.


----------

