# Laser Flashlight.. 400 Yard throw anyone??



## bosh (Jan 3, 2010)

I just got a sale flyer in the mail the other day. Noticed they had a Laser Genetics "flashlight" that has an adjustable optic and will throw a illuminating beam 400 yards.
Kinda cool if you like a "cool" green tint to your light :green:.
 
Anyone tried one of these??
 
http://www.lasergenetics.com/nd5-laser-designator.aspx


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## crizyal (Jan 3, 2010)

This looks like something that I have got to have!:twothumbs


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## Juggernaut (Jan 3, 2010)

Um, not sure what to think about this product, perhaps it’s miss informed advertisement, but according to their data this thing does not make sense. Example at maximum focus the beam is supposedly 45mm in diameter at 1 foot “304.79mm” that would give a beam divergence of 8.5 degrees, while in a no side spill light that’s not to bad, with say 60 lumens “somewhat around 20mw:thinking:” it could probably throw 400 yards, but the Tiablo A9 S makes a 4.5 degree beam that will throw 500+ yards. Also on it’s wide setting the light would have a beam diameter of 530mm, which would make for a 120 degree beam, that’s all flood, last I checked you can’t get 60 lumens of flood to go 400 yards:laughing:, in fact I don’t think you could get 60 lumens at 8.5 degrees to go 400 yards. So judging the fact that these stats must be wrong one must conclude on their own about it’s maximum performance. First the only way 60 lumens are going 400 yards is if it’s at least a 2.5 or smaller degree beam. That is much smaller then the Tiablo A9 S’s beam so if you think it’s beam is not practical for normal purposes, then the ND-5’s beam will be even worse. Lastly if a regular 5mw laser can go 2 miles and this 20mw laser can go 5 miles one must concur that’s it’s minimum beam diameter would be about twice that of a 5mw laser and twice as intense, so at maximum focus this is a laser and no longer a flashlight. 
 
That’s my two cents. 

This is of course ignoring the fact the beam is green “_yuck_:green:”.


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## rmteo (Jan 3, 2010)

Light does not travel a finite distance and then stop. The throw of any light is theoretically infinite. You need to define throw in a quantifiable manner in order to make any useful comparison between lights.


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## munkybiz_9881 (Jan 3, 2010)

I have been looking at this as well. 

Although I know nothing about this light yet, I can tell you that this light (ND3) was designed to be mounted on a scoped rifle for varmint hunting. 

I can also tell you that it does not take a large amount of light to make targets in the dark visible at a large distance when looking through a good scope. I have a River Rock 1AA (modded with ssc) mounted to the side of a springer air rifle, output barely 40 lumens I would guess, and I can see possums for a long ways in the dark, way farther than 100 yards.

Im seriously considering this light. Should make night time coyote hunts interesting.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 3, 2010)

This isn't a flashlight. It's a laser. Not a very powerful one either. Not at all worth the price imho.


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 3, 2010)

> The ND5 Laser Locator light utilizes a proprietary 20MW Green Laser



Wow, 20 MegaWatts. I wonder what they use for a power source. 

My penlight laser pointer is 5 mW. 20 mW doesn't seem like anything all that exciting, other than being able to focus the beam. 

Doesn't the FDA frown on anything over 5 mW? 

You used to be able to buy 300 mW penlight laser pointers.


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## bosh (Jan 3, 2010)

Good grief, you guys are PICKY. What do you want for only $350.00??


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 3, 2010)

A green laser with a second lens to spread the beam a bit for $350?
*F* no.

That's crazy:tinfoil:


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## abladeafficionado (Jan 3, 2010)

Anybody want to buy one for review? You could always send it my way I you didn't like it. 
It would sure be a fun toy to have.


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## Zeruel (Jan 3, 2010)

It's HUGE for a laser(flashlight).


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## waddup (Jan 4, 2010)

i know little, but it seems like a great idea to me, we have all see the laser pointer 'toys' that can put a very intense spot of red on an object a long way away.looks to me like this light takes that 'toy' idea and upgrades everything to 'professional'

obviously if the laser was not diffused A LOT it would damage peoples retinas quickly, but this light in tight focus seems to have the laser intensity down A LOT, but still would out throw a normal flashlight easily.

make that green beam white, and work the technology a little, and you have a laser/flashlight that can throw for miles, or get floody.

an underpowered laser has to be better then an overdriven led.?

8 hour runtime

$350? 

maybe forget the white?

from that link,

Why Green Light?
Green light is the most visible to the human eye (See Chart) and requires the least amount of eye adjustment at night.

An eye that has adapted to daytime conditions generally has a maximum sensitivity around 555nm. Compared to the color red which optical spectrum is around 630 – 650nm our eye is closer to the Green region of the optical spectrum at 510 - 530nm.


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## e-ville (Jan 4, 2010)

thats a good product to have, if youre stranded in the middle of nowhere

what i gathered from the info is that its best used as a signaling device for search parties. especially since the emphasis was put on the beam being visible from such a distance


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## Juggernaut (Jan 4, 2010)

waddup said:


> maybe forget the white?
> 
> from that link,
> 
> ...


 
The reason they use the green light? A marketing scheme, is just that “a scheme”. True, green light is easiest for humans to see, however it is not the light source one wants for identification. The only reason they praise _their_ “green” light use is because it is the most easily produced wavelength with their laser. A white laser is exponentially more expensive and complicated to make. It’s sort of like a car company saying “oh, we made our car run on gasoline because it’s cheaper then diesel” they feel to mention that a comparable diesel engine would save so much fuel that operational costs would be much cheaper. Call it twisting the facts.


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## Moonshadow (Jan 4, 2010)

Lasers are by definition monochromatic. There is no such thing as a 'white' laser.


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## T0RN4D0 (Jan 4, 2010)

Exactly. There is no such thing as a white laser. The simplest one to make is Red. But we are having trouble seeing that wavelength. The second simplest to make is Green, which our eye picks up much easier. Bang for the buck so to speak, at least if you want to see the spot and not use it to burn things. You also have the expensive as hell blue ones, and a few more in between. (orange, yellowish, cyan, purple...). 

And about this flashlight... I say wth, the specs arent worth poop. I was hoping for some high power colored emitter, that could be fun. A laser seems powerfull because its concentraded in a really tiny spot. Difuzing it would be like poking someone with the whole lenght of a needle. Not much fun.


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## DM51 (Jan 4, 2010)

As this is a laser, I'm moving it to the Lasers section. 

I see the output is given as 20MW. That sounds quite a lot for a handheld - I think they probably mean 20mW, lol.


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 4, 2010)

NO it's MW.

They had another page that showed them cooking hotdogs and chicken with it but I guess they took it down. Can't find it now.
:laughing:


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## DM51 (Jan 4, 2010)

You do realise mW = milliwatts, and MW = megawatts? A 20MW handheld would be quite something... lol


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 4, 2010)

Yeah

That's why it works faster than deep frying!


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## T0RN4D0 (Jan 4, 2010)

20 MW would be fun yes. Mount on a gun and just wire the guns trigger to the laser, and trigger to the flashlight. That way you can use the guns flashes too see what youre gonna pulverise with the laser. :nana:


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 4, 2010)

Isn't this what Louis Wu had in _Ringworld_?


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## N8YWF (Jan 7, 2010)

Sgt. LED said:


> NO it's MW.
> 
> They had another page that showed them cooking hotdogs and chicken with it but I guess they took it down. Can't find it now.
> :laughing:



Were they cooking popcorn too?


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## Ragnarok (Jan 17, 2010)

Moonshadow said:


> Lasers are by definition monochromatic. There is no such thing as a 'white' laser.


 
There is indeed such a thing, FYI - fiber lasers. Not flashlight sized though. But who knows what the future holds?

R.


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## T0RN4D0 (Jan 17, 2010)

You could put different colored lasers together (RGB would probably do) properly and get a "white laser". The properly part i'm guessing is not an easy thing to do.


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## Ragnarok (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm waiting for _someone_ to reduce this technology to pen-size.

http://www.nktphotonics.com/side5385.html


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## acourvil (Jan 24, 2010)

The reviews on a couple of hunting forums indicate that the light does not work well in cold weather, either dimming or stopping entirely, and that the defect/return rate is pretty high.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jan 24, 2010)

There is a beeper-sized white laser, it was a DIY kit, though. Some dude named Jay made it? But yeah, it combined rgb to make all sorts of colors.

and green lasers aren't exactly simple. Optically speakin, green are the most complex, since violet and red are simply collimated output of a diode while green is a result of concentrating the output of a high power IR diode, sending it through 2 crystals to adjust the wavelength from 808 to 532nm, then collimating the output of the pumped crystals to form a beam. With so much to go wrong, I'm not surprised that it acts up in different temperatures. Those crystals get off axis by a degree or two can diminish output greatly.


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 24, 2010)

I remember discussion of "pseudowhite" lasers in Arthur C. Clarke's _The Fountains of Paradise_. They were combined RG&B lasers. This would be interesting. Considering the speckle effect on a laser, I suppose a pseudowhite laser would have red, green, and blue speckle patterns. 

I wonder if there might not be a real use for laser flashlights. Use a laser light source, but put lenses in front of it to increase the beam width to a 2 or 3 inch diameter where it's not a hazard to vision like a narrow beam. How about an 100 lumen spot that's only 1 foot wide at 100 yards or so? 

You'd need to convince the feds to reclassify it from "dangerous laser" to "useful flashlight."


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## photonwave (Jan 24, 2010)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> There is a beeper-sized white laser, it was a DIY kit, though. Some dude named Jay made it? But yeah, it combined rgb to make all sorts of colors.
> 
> and green lasers aren't exactly simple. Optically speakin, green are the most complex, since violet and red are simply collimated output of a diode while green is a result of concentrating the output of a high power IR diode, sending it through 2 crystals to adjust the wavelength from 808 to 532nm, then collimating the output of the pumped crystals to form a beam. With so much to go wrong, I'm not surprised that it acts up in different temperatures. Those crystals get off axis by a degree or two can diminish output greatly.



I once read somewhere that we have an easier way, like frequency doubling using composite crystals mounted directly to the diode. Might've been mistaken in my interpretation of what was presented to me, however. Slashdot is notorious for that kind of misleading stuff.


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## comozo (Jan 27, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> I remember discussion of "pseudowhite" lasers I wonder if there might not be a real use for laser flashlights. Use a laser light source, but put lenses in front of it to increase the beam width to a 2 or 3 inch diameter where it's not a hazard to vision like a narrow beam. How about an 100 lumen spot that's only 1 foot wide at 100 yards or so?



This is precisely what beam expanders do. And it's what is used in this device.


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## JNewell (Feb 12, 2010)

Has anyone here bought one of these? Field reports?


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## DaveN007 (Mar 28, 2013)

JNewell said:


> Has anyone here bought one of these? Field reports?



I have the ND5 and I think it is amazing. You can selectively illuminate targets at amazing ranges. I am surprised by the comments from people who have clearly never used one.


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## nikosb (Dec 15, 2014)

Any idea what optics in particular are used to expand the beam to 45mm in diameter initially and then adjust it more to expand to 530mm in diameter at 1 ft distance? It is not only a double concave lens, right?


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## chillinn (Jan 3, 2015)

Apollo Cree said:


> You'd need to convince the feds to reclassify it from "dangerous laser" to "useful flashlight."



I know, old thread. But this is a common misconception that I wanted to correct, and hope laser marketers see it. If you sell a "laser pointer" to someone in the US, it must be 5mw or less (though often is greater). However, if you take that same "laser pointer," the exact same product, but you don't call it a "laser *pointer,*" then you can sell it as powerful as you want (though there must be some limit, it is not 5mw). Stop marketing lasers as laser "pointers" and you can easily get around the US Federal restrictions. Its just that simple. Call it a flashlight, and the restrictions are not there. Call it a laser, and the restrictions are not there. Call it a pointer, and you've got VA farm boys all up in your stuff (maybe not "farm" boys, but they have the same employer).


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## SemiMan (Jan 6, 2015)

chillinn said:


> I know, old thread. But this is a common misconception that I wanted to correct, and hope laser marketers see it. If you sell a "laser pointer" to someone in the US, it must be 5mw or less (though often is greater). However, if you take that same "laser pointer," the exact same product, but you don't call it a "laser *pointer,*" then you can sell it as powerful as you want (though there must be some limit, it is not 5mw). Stop marketing lasers as laser "pointers" and you can easily get around the US Federal restrictions. Its just that simple. Call it a flashlight, and the restrictions are not there. Call it a laser, and the restrictions are not there. Call it a pointer, and you've got VA farm boys all up in your stuff (maybe not "farm" boys, but they have the same employer).



This is not completely true and a tact that as a laser importer may get your products impounded and your company put on a watch list with customs. 

From the FDA website, and you will note they do not use the words "Laser Pointer":

"Do not purchase a handheld, battery-powered laser labeled with hazard Class IIIb, Class IV, Class 1M, Class 2M, Class 3B or Class 4 unless the manufacturer has an approval from FDA (called a "variance") to allow the purchase. Lasers approved for purchase in these classes often have very specific uses and may be sold under certain conditions known to the manufacturer. Sales without a variance, or sales that violate the conditions of the variance, ARE ILLEGAL."

Just calling it a "laser" or even a "flashlight" does not get around restrictions as the definitions are not based on the words "laser pointer", but around the intended usage. Please feel free to peruse the FDA website as there are a few articles on this.

As well, Class IIIB laser have further design/safety considerations,

"The FDA standard 21 CFR 1040.10 and 1040.11) requires a warning label on Class IIIa and IIIb products. Class IIIb products must also have a key switch and connector for remote interlock. The products are also required to have identifying and certifying labels and instructions for safe use."


Semiman


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