# G2 out done by Brinkmann Maxfire WHAT?



## Aaron1100us (Apr 27, 2006)

I work security at a College at night and love to go to the gym to test out my lights. Too many lights outside and the gym is pretty much pitch black plus its pretty good sized. I've had my G2 for about three years now and have allways loved that light. It has the P60 bulb and UCL lense with fresh surefire 123 batteries in it. I recently bought a Brinkmann Maxfire just because it looked alot like the G2 and I wanted to see how it performed. I figured the Maxfire would do pretty well but would be blown away by the G2. I was wrong. The Maxfire had a brighter beam, brighter, wider spill beam, better throw and lit up the Coe College sign at the other end of the gym not a lot but a little bit more than the G2. Oh, I recently bought a replacement P60 bulb for the G2. Could I have got a faulty bulb? Or is the Maxfire really brighter than the G2? I figured the UCL would also help the performance on the G2 to make it a little bit brighter. I'm confused. Oh, I also checked out my new Streamlight pro poly lux and wow, that thing was allmost as bright as the G2 and Maxfire, in throw, but not spill beam. I was pretty impressed for a 1 watt LED. Any thoughts on why the Maxfire would be brighter than the G2? I even tried another set of batteries in the G2. Thanks


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## Size15's (Apr 27, 2006)

I doubt that the UCL will make a visible difference but I've not compared it side-by-side.


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## Size15's (Apr 27, 2006)

Perhaps you should put as many sets of batteries through the Maxfire as you do the G2 to see whether the bulb is designed to last as long or whether they are pushing it hard...


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## HonorKnight (Apr 27, 2006)

The Maxfire puts out something like 114-120 lumens. I don't remember exactly, but it was in that range. The P60 bulb puts out 65 lumens. To match the Maxfire you need to get the P61 bulb that puts out 120 lumens. Ironically, the P61 bulb cost more than the entire Maxfire flashlight.


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## Aaron1100us (Apr 27, 2006)

"Ironically, the P61 bulb cost more than the entire Maxfire flashlight."-HonorKnight

Yeah, isn't that crazy. I have the P61 bulb but don't use it anymore because I also have my Surefire M3 on my duty belt. 114-120 lumens for the Maxfire, wow, I guess I was under the impression that it was around 50 or 60. I just checked out Flashlightreviews website and the brinkmann has a 4000 for throw and 6400 for overall output and G2 has 3534 for throw and 5200 for overall output. Crazy, and for $15 less than the G2. And I thought the G2 was supposed to be so special (since it is a surefire). I'll have to see the runtime on the Maxfire.


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## Delvance (Apr 27, 2006)

Aaron1100us,

You mentioned that you went to FLR and checked out the numbers already. Did you also have a look at the time to reach 50% output ? It takes 44 minutes for the maxfire to reach 50% while it takes the G2 54 minutes to reach 50%. Using this data, it would seem the bulb that comes with the maxfire draws more amps than the P60 lamp, meaning it is a more powerful bulb...which explains the high output of the maxfire, at the disadvantage of even shorter runtime than the P60 LA. Also, if the maxfire got 64.00 on Doug's lightbox, i really doubt that the light is over 100 output lumens. Considering the P60 LA rated at 65 output lumens measured 52.00 in the lightbox.

Hopefully that helps as to why the maxfire is brighter. Oh, and SF chooses to use a very "peeled" or "stippled" coating on their reflectors to smooth out the beams so as there are no artifacts. A less "bumpy" coating on a reflector will allow a light to throw further. I've not seen the maxfire reflector so can't comment on that one though.


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## HonorKnight (Apr 27, 2006)

Note: The 114-120 or so lumens of the Maxfire only refers to the center spot. The P61 lamp puts out more light over all.


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## 270winchester (Apr 27, 2006)

HonorKnight said:


> Note: The 114-120 or so lumens of the Maxfire only refers to the center spot.



that's the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CPF.


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## HonorKnight (Apr 27, 2006)

Delvance said:


> Aaron1100us,
> 
> Also, if the maxfire got 64.00 on Doug's lightbox, i really doubt that the light is over 100 output lumens. Considering the P60 LA rated at 65 output lumens measured 52.00 in the lightbox.



The P61 got a 70.00 in Doug's light box. Assuming the scale is linear and accurate:
P60: 52 = 65 Lumens
Max: 64 = X
P61: 70 = 120 Lumens

With a little math that puts the Maxfire at about 107 lumens. Of course, there is a bit of a fudge factor with Doug's readings(lux and lumens NOT being equal), so the exact amount could be a little more or a little less than that. Probably less.

Edited three typos. That gets to me for some reason. Added "Probably Less"


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## HonorKnight (Apr 27, 2006)

270winchester said:


> that's the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CPF.



Sorry, I meant to refer to the Lux reading only measuring the center of the light and the equivilant lumen conversion.


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## Grox (Apr 27, 2006)

270winchester, go easy on the newbs!

Lumens is a measurement of _total_ output - it can not by definition be a point measurement. A figure in lumens takes into account all the output of a source - in all direction and includes biases towards certain parts of the visible spectrum.

edit: lux can not be accurately converted into lumens. yes it is possible to _estimate_ but no real "conversion factor" exists.


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## Aaron1100us (Apr 27, 2006)

Interesting, thanks for all the replies. Wow, around 107 lumens, never would have guessed. I must say that I'm quite pleased with the performance of the Maxfire. Awsome throw and very good spillbeam. Can't beat it for the price. Seems to be pretty durable too. I think I'm going to get a UCL and holster for it and place it right next to the G2 on my duty belt. There's nothing wrong with having 6 lights on my duty belt is there


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## HonorKnight (Apr 27, 2006)

270winchester said:


> that's the most idiotic statement I have ever heard on CPF.



Also, If I or someone makes a mistake, or speaks out of confusion or ignorance, wouldn't a nice gentle correction be nice? Words like "idiotic" or "stupid" can be very offensive.


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## dano (Apr 27, 2006)

1. Watch the personal attacks; they WILL NOT be tolerated...

2. Surefire doesn't always equal the best or brightest. A light is only as good as its power source, and with two lithium cells, you can only get so much light. The Maxfire pushes the bulb harder than a P60, and the Maxfire is more focused, which gives more throw. No bulb can push 100+ lumens and still have a one hour burn time.

I like the Maxfire much better than the 1st generation MaxfireLX. The only drawback to the Maxfire is the lack of bulbs; they are not readily available.

--dan


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## Somy Nex (Apr 27, 2006)

HonorKnight said:


> Also, If I or someone makes a mistake, or speaks out of confusion or ignorance, wouldn't a nice gentle correction be nice? Words like "idiotic" or "stupid" can be very offensive.



i hope you won't let that outburst get to you too much. that's by and large not the general demeanor of this forum, and i feel ashamed whenever these outbursts happen. i found this thread quite informative, and at any rate, we are all still noobs at one thing or another--if not flashlights, then something else. give what you can, take what you need. for tomorrow is another day.


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## HonorKnight (Apr 27, 2006)

dano said:


> I like the Maxfire much better than the 1st generation MaxfireLX. The only drawback to the Maxfire is the lack of bulbs; they are not readily available.
> 
> --dan


I actually like LED lights so you don't have to replace the bulbs. But considering the $17 price on the Maxfire at Target, when the light bulb goes and you can't find a new one, you might as well just buy a whole new light. You get a new bulb and new batteries.


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## Size15's (Apr 27, 2006)

And lets get this thread back on topic - if anyone has anything further to say regarding 270winchester's comment you are welcome to contact myself or other CPF Staff by PM or email.

Thanks

Al

P.S.
On topic: It appears then that the runtime is shorter to increase the output. Seems reasonable. It would also be appropriate to mention that SureFire's lumen ratings are not peak/maximum ratings, and are based on the light coming out of the flashlight whilst being powered by the flashlight.
Therefore I would use Doug's reads only when comparing one brand with another since Doug has used the same method to collect his data each time.


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## HonorKnight (Apr 27, 2006)

Size15's said:


> It would also be appropriate to mention that SureFire's lumen ratings are not peak/maximum ratings, and are based on the light coming out of the flashlight whilst being powered by the flashlight.
> Therefore I would use Doug's reads only when comparing one brand with another since Doug has used the same method to collect his data each time.



Very true. Surefire's ratings have always been on the conservative side while most other brands use the highest number they can fudge.


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## pedalinbob (Apr 27, 2006)

Though I haven't tried one, the Maxfire looks like a pretty nice light, and a good bargain to boot.

I chose the G2 for a few reasons:

1. I wanted my first Surefire! It really is nice--feels like high quality.

2. Surefire bulbs are expensive, but they are known to be durable and have good life. The beam is darn nice as well.

3. Runtime is fairly balanced. It doesn't trade ultimate brightness for dismal runtime, or vice-versa.
In fact, I wish I could use the low output assembly from the E2, since I generally could do fine with fewer lumens.

What an addiction!

Bob


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## bwaites (Apr 27, 2006)

I seriously doubt the Maxfire is 107 lumens. If you go back a couple years in the archives, all this stuff has been hashed out, BUT, doing a search for it is tough.

The difference between 107 and 120 is about 11%, and remembering that it takes almost twice as much light to see a noticeable difference, the difference between the standard lamp and the P61 would barely be noticeable.

But the truth is, there is a significant difference betweent the two. 

There is also a difference between the P60 and the Maxfire, but with my versions, at least, the difference is much less. 

My best estimate would be that the Maxfire puts 80-90 lumens out the front.

If you assume (I know, thats a big problem), that the lamps are roughly equal in efficiency, then the 54 minute to half brightness, 44 minute to half brightness, and the roughly 16 minute to half brightness of the P61 gives you a clue. 

Once again, assuming linear characteristics, (they aren't actually linear) then the Maxfire is running more than twice as long as the P61 to half brightness, while only putting out 11% less light. That's a HUGE improvement in efficiency. 

Much more likely that it is in the 80 lumen range.

Bill


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## demo (Apr 27, 2006)

here is another version, g2 brighter than maxfire

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=109342&highlight=Maxfire


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## interscape (Apr 27, 2006)

Is this the rechargable version we are talking about? And why is the LX less favorable?


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## Brighteyez (Apr 27, 2006)

Your findings are no different than that of others including a review site that many here frequent, flashlightreviews.com. The Maxfire does have more overall light output and will outthrow Surefire lights that use a P60 lamp assembly. You can however use a P60 lamp assembly in the Maxfire if you wish, you'll then probably get output that is pretty close to what you're getting with the G2. Since you have both, the Maxfire makes a great back-up for the G-2.



Aaron1100us said:


> Any thoughts on why the Maxfire would be brighter than the G2? I even tried another set of batteries in the G2. Thanks


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## HonorKnight (Apr 27, 2006)

bwaites said:


> My best estimate would be that the Maxfire puts 80-90 lumens out the front.



After having some sleep and looking at the run times I tend to agree with bwaites that around 85 lumens out the front seems most likely.


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## 270winchester (Apr 27, 2006)

Honorknight:

Sorry about the outburst, but I have been deeply irritated recently of the flood of newbies who try to compare their Chinese made lights with inflated lumen ratings and try to put Surefire down just because Surefire is too honest and conservative with their ratings. I am also tired of restating why Surefire is more superior and its prices justified.

Politics aside, Surefires make a good product, are honest with their marketing and stand behind their product. I have seen too many this kind of thread to feel remotely sympathetic toward newbies. THere are a lot for nicer people here than me, I'll leave the floor to them.

Nick


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## Aaron1100us (Apr 27, 2006)

And just to clarify for anyone, I'm not putting Surefire down at all. I really do like Surefire lights, just spent $250 on an M3 not long ago. And the quality of the G2 seems to be better than the Maxfire but the Maxfire doesn't seem bad at all. Both lights are great, I just didn't realize the Maxfire was brighter untill I tested them side by side. I think I'd recommend either light to people.


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## Handlobraesing (Apr 27, 2006)

MaxFire LX sure looks like an expensive light to run..

From their site's FAQ section:

"Customer:I have a Legend LX flashlight. How long are the bulbs supposed to last?

Brinkmann: The bulbs for the Brinkmann flashlights should last an average of 10 hours depending on usage."


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## InfidelCastro (Apr 27, 2006)

The comparisons and reviews I've seen have the Surefire's P60 lamp defeating the MaxFire's. If something has changed with the Maxfire very recently, that is quite interesting. I know the Maxfire bulbs are only about $5.


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## offroadcmpr (Apr 30, 2006)

Dougs ratings for the G2 and the maxfire used to be almost the same for the overall rating. Then he updated the review and changed it to what it is now. So either there is a variation in brightness between the maxfire models, or they updated the bulb to be brighter but with less runtime. I have read reviews with beam shots that say that the G2 is brighter, and some have said that the maxfire is brighter. I guess it is luck of the draw.


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## SCblur (May 1, 2006)

I don't really have any comment on the maxfire, as I don't have one, and have never used one. But I was just thinking about the original posters comments about these two lights being complementary, wherein the G2 offers a decent flood and useable beam, while the Maxfire is useful for throw. 

All that to say, my favorite combo for this niche (only considering 2cell lights), by and large would have to be a SF P60 light (G2 in my case) and the Pelican M6 incan. I love the G2 beam for most uses, but the Pelican M6 beam is one of the best throwers for a 2 cell light of its size and form factor. If the original poster is looking for a good thrower in a G2 sized package, to compliment his trusty SF, I would very very strongly recommend this duo.

That is all, I will digress now


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## InfidelCastro (May 1, 2006)

SCblur said:


> I don't really have any comment on the maxfire, as I don't have one, and have never used one. But I was just thinking about the original posters comments about these two lights being complementary, wherein the G2 offers a decent flood and useable beam, while the Maxfire is useful for throw.




Ironically, in a shootout between the two last fall, the throw department is where the Maxfire really looked lacking. The pictures were revealing. Not that the G2 is exactly a throw monster, that's for sure.


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## mdocod (May 1, 2006)

> Once again, assuming linear characteristics, (they aren't actually linear) then the Maxfire is running more than twice as long as the P61 to half brightness, while only putting out 11% less light. That's a HUGE improvement in efficiency. -Bewaits



Keep in mind- there is significant energy loss when driving lithium cells hard... That's why Surefire lamps double in brightness, but drop to 1/3 the runtime when you swap to "HOLA" LAs.. (1 hour for 60 lumens, 20 minuts for 120 lumens, when comparing P60 to P61.... similar comparisons can be made for P90 to P91, and carries over to all the tactical M series lamps as well).. so you can't really compare efficiancies of LAs based on battery life... have to look at wattage. 

If I had to take a "stab" at it.. I'd be willing to bet the Maxfire is somewhere around 80-100 lumens.... I've been meaning to buy one to compare to some of my other lights, and maybe use as an additional EDC.


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## bwaites (May 1, 2006)

That's a good point mdocod, but if it was 107 lumens, as postulated, it certainly wouldn't run for the greater than 40 minute run time noted, which was really my point, if not stated very well.

My eyes say around 80 lumens, but hey, I've been wrong lots of times!!

Bill


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## Illum (May 5, 2006)

By stats Brinkmann can out do the G2, 

Based on information from www.flashlightreviews.com [Thanks Quickbeam]
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/surefire_g2.htm
Throw: 3534
Overall: 5200
~74.36 Lumens +/- 17% [61.72 - 87 Lumens]

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/brinkmann_maxfirelx.htm
Maxfire LX
Throw: 4000
Overall: 6400
~91.52 Lumens +/- 17% [75.96 - 107.08 Lumens]

I would have expected the former to defeat the Maxfire, but :wow:


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## InfidelCastro (May 6, 2006)

Hmm.. now you guys are tempting me to pick one up, just to see if it's really gotten brighter than the old ones were.


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## coldsolderjoint (May 6, 2006)

I recently picked up the maxfire as a $20 impulse buy and expected to be disapointed. Like most others, I wasnt. 

The light seems like it's not as durable as the surefire, but for $19, who cares. I heard you can put a p60 in a maxfire. 

I notice some artifacts in the spill of my light, and the outsides are kind of weird because of the pattern of the rubber bezel. All in all, I think it's a good buy for $19 however. 

Thats my $0.02! :rock:


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## InfidelCastro (May 6, 2006)

I really hope we see a NEW shootout between the two lights. The Surefire G2 vs. the (new?) Maxfire, because the Maxfire was getting its butt kicked before.


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## Illum (May 6, 2006)

coldsolderjoint said:


> I recently picked up the maxfire as a $20 impulse buy and expected to be disapointed. Like most others, I wasnt.
> 
> The light seems like it's not as durable as the surefire, but for $19, who cares. I heard you can put a p60 in a maxfire.
> 
> ...



Ah Ha! So you did pick one up...
Did you take the hole shelf to the cashier to get it unlocked? 

$20 impulse buy is more or less a common practice, especially after you found a $20 in your laundry


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## coldsolderjoint (May 6, 2006)

no.. went to a different walmart.. they had them on normal pegs..


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## Brighteyez (May 6, 2006)

I think you'll find that there are several lights that exceed the output from the P60 lamp assembly, including the Pelican M6, Streamlight TL2/Scorpion/NF-2, Dorcy Spyder, and the Maxfire. The Pelican M6's throw exceeds that of the P60 by using a very tightly focused hot spot and a polished reflector (as does the Dorcy), though I think you can interchange the lamp modules between the Pelican and a Surefilre P60 light (the Pelican module is a bit longer.) The Streamlights and the Maxfire both use textured reflectors.

It was kind of a rude awakening to realize that I had all of those lights here, but I'd say my favorites are the Pelican and Streamlight TL-2, and the Maxfire is a great backup.



Illum_the_nation said:


> By stats Brinkmann can out do the G2,
> 
> Based on information from www.flashlightreviews.com [Thanks Quickbeam]I would have expected the former to defeat the Maxfire, but :wow:


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## Handlobraesing (May 6, 2006)

and campus security can eat it.


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## Illum (May 6, 2006)

Handlobraesing said:


> and campus security can eat it.



da um...what?


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## BlackBlade (May 29, 2006)

Hope this thread is the right place to ask. 
Would the lamp assembly of the Pelican M6 incandescent fit in the Vital Gear Head mounted on an E-Series Body? I'm talking about this Head. 

Thanks in advance and kind regards

BlackBlade

forumdisplay.php?f=46


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## Brighteyez (May 29, 2006)

The Pelican lamp assembly is a little longer and does not have the spring that the P60 type assemblies would have. If you try to put it into a light that uses a P60 lamp assembly you might not be able to put the bezel back on, or at least not all the way down the threads. I did try it with a Brinkmann Maxfire LX, which will accept a P60 assembly, and got that very same experience where the bezel could not go all the way onto the body (but it did work insofar as being able to illuminate the module.)



BlackBlade said:


> Would the lamp assembly of the Pelican M6 incandescent fit in the Vital Gear Head mounted on an E-Series Body?


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## BlackBlade (May 29, 2006)

@Brighteyez: Many thanks for your fast reply!
Is there a chance to "shorten" the lamp assembly of the M6 in some way to make it fit properly in a bezel for a P60? 
Maybe this sounds circuitous but I EDC a L4 with the long pocketclip and a McGizmo tailcap (not two stage just the SF clicky). If I would buy and carry a Pelican M6, I would have to pass on the clip and the clicky and that is something don't realy want.

Any other suggestions are welcome!


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## Brighteyez (May 29, 2006)

The current production Pelican M6 has a clicky with momentary on. It's kind of soft, but it works well once you get used to it. Not sure why you would want a clip with a light of that size, but that is something that would be missing. On the other hand, it does come with a somewhat decent quality holster that even has a spare battery pouch (if it is for police usage, I would suggest getting another holster that matches the rest of the gear on the utility belt though.)

*EDIT: * The M6 module is a solid piece of aluminium, I wouldn't try cutting it down, you'll probably end up damaging it. Why don't you just use a P60 module? There's not that much difference in the price. If you want to use the M6 module because it has more throw, do be aware that it does so with the use of a polished reflector and a much more focused hotspot. Overall light output doesn't differ much from that of the P60 module, or the Streamlight Scorpion/TL-2/NF-2 products.



BlackBlade said:


> If I would buy and carry a Pelican M6, I would have to pass on the clip and the clicky and that is something don't realy want.
> 
> Any other suggestions are welcome!


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## jclarksnakes (May 30, 2006)

I like BRIGHT lights and both of these lights are just begging for something hotter than the bulbs that come in them. They both work great and are FAR brighter than stock with the Wolf Eyes D26 9 volt lamp assembly and 2 rechargeable cells. The 9 volt G&P lamps are about as good as the Wolf Eyes and you can sometimes find them for very reasonable prices on Ebay.
jc


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