# Lights that you trust with your life.



## jashhash (Sep 11, 2005)

Over the past year it has come to my awareness that though these bright mods I make do have some flare it has also come to my attention how much I distrust them in situations where I need depend on them. Such a situation would be cave exploring for example. My question to everyone is this. If say hypothetically you were trapped in a cave and could only have ONE light by your side which one would it be? Would it be something that you tampered with? 

Of all my lights I would most likely trust my stock Q3 even though it runs a bit hotter than I like. I would still call this my most dependable light.


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## Former_Mag_User (Sep 11, 2005)

I would say my LuxIII 3D Mag. It is a simple and reliable mod.


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## Size15's (Sep 11, 2005)

It's not a "cave" light but I trust the G2 with P61 with my life. It sure can take a beating and shine on!


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## mossyoak (Sep 11, 2005)

i owuldnt trust my life to my own skills i would prefer it if a company like surefire or PT put lots more research in to it that my little mods so if the was one light that i would trust my life to it would have to be a PT attitude
it is simple and indestructible just how i like my shtf lights


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## bole64 (Sep 11, 2005)

inova 5x white, but if runtime was not an issue, then prbly the SF M6.


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## DocArnie (Sep 11, 2005)

I would take my Q3 in a friggin heartbeat. It's one of the most reliable things I ever had. And I use it every day...


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## Sigman (Sep 11, 2005)

SureFire for sure (but I'd have to have an eternaLight, an ARC AAA, and a Princeton Tec Attitude with me as well!!)


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## Unicorn (Sep 11, 2005)

I'd have to say my SureFire 9P. I was going to be putting my trust into it if I needed to clear any rooms, or if our perimieter were breached at night. That never hapened though.


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## nerdgineer (Sep 11, 2005)

We talk about this once in a while. While most lights are very reliable, I think factors which maximize reliability are: LED (shockproof), DD (no electronics to go bad), twisty (no switch to go bad), good stout lanyard hole, and good, heavy duty build quality. Something like a Gerber LX1.0 or 3.0, depending on how much run time you wanted and if you envisioned having more batteries lying around.


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## Nitroz (Sep 11, 2005)

jashhash said:


> Over the past year it has come to my awareness that though these bright mods I make do have some flare it has also come to my attention how much I distrust them in situations where I need depend on them. Such a situation would be cave exploring for example. My question to everyone is this. If say hypothetically you were trapped in a cave and could only have ONE light by your side which one would it be? Would it be something that you tampered with?
> 
> Of all my lights I would most likely trust my stock Q3 even though it runs a bit hotter than I like. I would still call this my most dependable light.



I agree with FMU, I would take my direct drive Lux III moded mag.


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## [email protected] (Sep 11, 2005)

The most reliable light I know of (not the brightest by a longshot, but sufficient enough for me in pitch black conditions) would be a tritium variable brightness torch













No electronics *at all*



, half life time of ~12.5 years. :wow:


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## Nitroz (Sep 11, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The most reliable light I know of (not the brightest by a longshot, but sufficient enough for me in pitch black conditions) would be a tritium variable brightness torch



It looks as if you would die in the cave before your light would.


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## [email protected] (Sep 11, 2005)

Hey, at least I wouldn't die in the dark... :thinking:


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## this_is_nascar (Sep 11, 2005)

jashhash said:


> Over the past year it has come to my awareness that though these bright mods I make do have some flare it has also come to my attention how much I distrust them in situations where I need depend on them. Such a situation would be cave exploring for example. My question to everyone is this. If say hypothetically you were trapped in a cave and could only have ONE light by your side which one would it be? Would it be something that you tampered with?
> 
> Of all my lights I would most likely trust my stock Q3 even though it runs a bit hotter than I like. I would still call this my most dependable light.



This is an easy one. For sure, a Jil-DD light. It's simple, no nonsense, no electronics to fail and has usuable light for over 20-hours.


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## this_is_nascar (Sep 11, 2005)

OK Bart, fess up. Where did you get it?


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## jtice (Sep 11, 2005)

I do a good bit of caving.

My hand light is currently a Streamlight 3C Luxeon, which I totally trust.
But at about 5 hours runtime, I would want more than that, if I was hurt, ot lost in a cave.
So I would have to say my backup caving light, the UK 4AA LED which fets 10 hours.

I have just begun testing my new headlamp. www.stenlight.com
If it proves reliable (which I think it will) I would choose it for sure.

BTW, an Arc AA is ALOT of light in a cave.
Your etes are VERY night adapted, which makes even something like an Arc AA actually light up a room, and actually throw a good bit.

~John


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## [email protected] (Sep 11, 2005)

Tin, I don't have one yet, but it shouldn't be long now...  (also some other tritium goodies, vials and maybe dots...  )

Hopefully the deal will work out and if it does, keep an eye out in mods BST,


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## Haz (Sep 11, 2005)

Bart,

That looks like a neat little thing "tritium variable brightness torch".
Where can you get one from?, how does the variable brightness controlled work?

Haz


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## [email protected] (Sep 11, 2005)

I'm working to order some from the factory, they work by a slide that covers the aperture, very basic, and very reliable.


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## TrueBlue (Sep 11, 2005)

I'd trust my life with a light that has a lifetime warranty. It would be hard to choose. Would it be my Surefire U2 or my L4 with a two stage switch? I believe I would choose the U2 even though it is heavier then the L4. The U2 would have more adjustable output and would be more efficient with battery power than a resistored two stage L4. It is a tough call for me. I'd go with the U2.


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## Sigman (Sep 11, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Tin, I don't have one yet, but it shouldn't be long now...  (also some other tritium goodies, vials and maybe dots...  )
> 
> Hopefully the deal will work out and if it does, keep an eye out in mods BST,


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## Perfectionist (Sep 11, 2005)

The Tritum light is sweet !! Where can you get them ??

Seems to me most of you guys are happy to trust your life ..... on batteries !! 

Personally, I'd go for a NightStar StarCore : http://www.appliedinnotech.com/

Built like a tank and will shine forever ...... well until you get repetative strain injury 

The Jil-DD is a great choice - would always have one on your keychain ..... when you left your "trust with my life" torch at home


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## Sixpointone (Sep 11, 2005)

I'd pick my SureFire L4 with a McES2 22 ohm two-stage trim tailcap.


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## xpitxbullx (Sep 11, 2005)

My Gladius. Why? If I'm trapped for a lengthy period of time, one set of batteries can last as long as 400hrs. The lowest setting is bright enought to navigate even in a cave. If need be, I can always brighten it.

Cave? 400 hours? This can be my only choice (for now).

Jeff


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## attowatt (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm with you [email protected]


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## Stingray (Sep 12, 2005)

Well, this is a timely thread. I'm getting ready to go on a 5 day motorcycle trip from south Florida to the Smoky mountains and back. A year or two ago I bought a Streamlight Twin Task 2L and put it in the underseat storage compartment of the bike for emergencies. I tested it a few times before I put it in there. I also used it occasionally now and then. I was checking over everything preparing for the trip and the Streamlight doesn't work. Batteries are fine but the light is dead. When I took out the batteries, a little square piece of metal came out with them. I know there is vibration in the storage compartment and that's what probably killed it.

So....what is the most rugged flashlight I can put in there that can stand up to constant vibration and still work when I need it too?


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## jashhash (Sep 12, 2005)

I wish we could somehow get our hands on some larger tritium vials. First person to get thier hands on a decent sized vial would have a big group buy on thier hands.


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## KevinL (Sep 12, 2005)

U2. Dial it down to extend battery life and bring on the high beam when I need to signal a rescue. The perfect amount of light, the perfect mix of spill and throw, and it's never let me down.


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 12, 2005)

I kinda like the UK2AAA eled, 20 hours runtime with a wide ball of light, waterproof 
and pocketable. It is a great little backup light.


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## LEDninja (Sep 12, 2005)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I kinda like the UK2AAA eled, 20 hours runtime with a wide ball of light, waterproof
> and pocketable. It is a great little backup light.


Not too happy with the beam pattern, but I got one on my keychain. It is the get me home during a city wide blackout light.


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## The-David (Sep 12, 2005)

After careing my Aleph 1 on 2X123 DB917. I have careyed it on several camping trips and it has never failed me. I bleave that it would probley out last me in a cave even on used battereys. I also carey a Fredom 2X on my keys that could be used to take soum of the worck off the Aleph. As far as trusting my owne worck with my life... I would trus soumthing I built befor I would trus soumthing soumone else built. But If your going to put you life on a peace of equpment aways get two and push one to the point of damag. At the varey least read reports on it from soumone who has.


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## diggdug13 (Sep 12, 2005)

Haz said:


> Bart,
> 
> That looks like a neat little thing "tritium variable brightness torch".
> Where can you get one from?, how does the variable brightness controlled work?
> ...



what factory and how much are they?

Doug


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## [email protected] (Sep 12, 2005)

I am going to order some soon, they will be around $95 for the 3Ci (Curie)20mm ones and about $165 for the 5Ci 30mm ones.
They are manufactured by the same company that makes all the vials for the glowrings and Luminox watches.


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## JanCPF (Sep 12, 2005)

Bart,

You'll keep us posted on this right? RIGHT?! :tsk:


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## Brangdon (Sep 12, 2005)

The light I'd take into a cave would probably be my Zikpa+ because of its run-time. I also have a Surefire L1, which I hate, and a Orb Raw, which is not a survival light at all. In practice I'd be most likely to have Photon Freedom because that's what's on my keyring - and I wouldn't be unhappy with it. It's pretty robust, puts out plenty of light for the conditions, and would probably last long enough.


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## Bravo25 (Sep 12, 2005)

I would have to say the new KL1 on a E2 body with twisty cap. Also a beam shapper for broader light. Also the Arc aaa (that Cy was most kind to provide me with). The battery size woudl allow me to carry enough extras for long run time, and I would have throw. In total darkness I think the ARC would become very bright.


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## NewBie (Sep 12, 2005)

xpitxbullx said:


> My Gladius. Why? If I'm trapped for a lengthy period of time, one set of batteries can last as long as 400hrs. The lowest setting is bright enought to navigate even in a cave. If need be, I can always brighten it.
> 
> Cave? 400 hours? This can be my only choice (for now).
> 
> Jeff




With the Gladius, I'd be very worried about dropping it, as some folks have had issues with the tail cap breaking when dropping it from three feet upon an linoleum floor in a house.


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## aceo07 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'd trust my Inova XO, which has saved me during a couple of winter hikes that went a couple of hours past sunset. ~40lumens constant for 4hours.

I also have a HDS EDC U60 now, but it hasn't had a chance to go for winter hikes yet. 10lumens for 6hrs, 30lumens for 2hrs and 60lumens for 30minutes on R123. Battery extender would be nice.


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## Kiessling (Sep 12, 2005)

A SureFire (U2) or a newest generation McGizmo (McluxIII-PD).
Maybe an Eternalight EliteMax.
All the rest I do not trust with my life. Still cool and good ligths, but not to that point.
bernie


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## Longbow (Sep 12, 2005)

Dependable and bright, 5 1/2 hrs. full brightness "flat-line" regulation, submersable,corrosion-proof and shock-proof, Inova T2. No rechargeables thank you.


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## SilverFox (Sep 12, 2005)

I only have one light that I don't trust. I usually put a new light through a break in period to determine if it can be trusted. If it can't, I get rid of it. My one exception is an angle head that my dad gave me while I was in Boy Scouts. It still lights up, but the connections are weak and the case (plastic) is split in a couple of places from dropping it on rocks.

My most trusted and most used lights are:

LionHeart
Aleph 3
8NX
TigerLight
U2
Peak 3 LED AAA Snow (High)
Peak 5 LED AA Snow (High)
EternaLight

Tom


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## cue003 (Sep 12, 2005)

BART, man those things are sweet. I will be on the lookout for it. I hope I don't miss it.

Curtis


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## nethiker (Sep 12, 2005)

For my use, fire/rescue, the light needs to be variable. Low to preserve night vision or high to pick a path down the mountain. It needs to be large enough to handle securely in a gloved hand, and the option for the safety cone to direct traffic control is a big plus. I use the Surefire U2.


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## IsaacHayes (Sep 12, 2005)

Yes, I'd trust a mod I did over something manufactored. Why? Well I know how I put it together, and know it will last. Probably a long running light like a 3D single luxIII mag. There's no electronics to worry about breaking when dropped/going out too. Most likely would survive a nuclear blast EMP too.


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## Ray_of_Light (Sep 12, 2005)

Should I entrust my life to a flashlight, today, it would be the SF U2. Or the Inova X5 that, for other reasons, is at same level of reliability. I would use an original CMG Infinity Ultra as backup.

In the past, in caving occasions, I have used dual bulb dive light, with constant current driver for the filament bulbs, reinforced types from Thorn or Philips, slightly underdriven. 

Let me say a word on the Q3. I like the small cute light, I have EDC'ed it for a while, just to have the feel of it. I am not bashing on a 30 $ light, but if you dissect it, you will find WHY NOT to entrust your life to it.

In any case, NEVER entrust your life to a single light. Most of the time, the key is a multiple backup. 

Anthony


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## Hans (Sep 12, 2005)

A couple of observations: I find it interesting that the HDS doesn't get mentioned more often. Is that because many people don't really trust "complex" lights? Or is it just that the HDS haven't been long enough on the market for people to trust them? 

Another light that doesn't get mentioned as often as I thought it would is the E1L. That's a pretty straightforward light IMO, and it's one of the few lights I'd trust in difficult situations. But I wouldn't really want to use it without a McGizmo 2-stage tailcap. There are so many situations where bright lights are useless. 

BTW, my own favourites are the UK 4AA eLED and the E1L (with McGizmo tailcap) at the moment. I'm still not quite sure about the Peak Matterhorn 1 LED (Standard). It may yet make its way on my shortlist, but I think it may not quite be bright enough in may situations. I'm also not quite sure about the HDS. I really like that light, it's almost ideal in my purposes in all sorts of situations, but before I'd entrust my life to such a complex light I'd want to see a lot more reports on its reliability.

BTW, I've been thinking quite a lot recently about the question what the ideal light for emergency use would be. What I'd like to see is a light that 

- runs on a commonly available battery (ideally AA alkalines and lithiums as well as AA NiMH rechargeables), 
- needs only one cell to keep the size down
- has two different light levels (something like 2-3 lumens on "low" and ~20 lumens on "high" for instance) 
- has a totally reliable switch design (I'd much prefer a a twisty over a clicky),
- uses an underdriven Luxeon LED protected by a polycarbonate lens,
- can be used in candlepower mode,
- has a secure lanyard attachment point,
- is waterproof to at least 15 feet.

What I'm not yet sure about is whether I really need tight regulation in such a light. For such a light I don't think I'd need a flat discharge curve.

Hans


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## Big_Ed (Sep 12, 2005)

Right now, I have 2 lights that I'd trust with my life. They are my Mag 3D lux III, and my eternaLight Ergo X-Ray.

Honorable mention: Inova X5, and CMG Infinity Ultra.


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## vtunderground (Sep 12, 2005)

That's easy... UK mini-Q40 eLED


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## webley445 (Sep 12, 2005)

I feel the question is relative. For the situation mentioned I would go with a small led light with a long runtime, like my old Infinity Ultra with lith batts. In a cave with pitch darkness almost anylight would be helpful. 

I would consider my PT Attitude or lightwave 2K, but they would be modded, meaning some strong tape around the body to help hold neck lanyard secure.

There is one mod I made that I would consider. It is made from using 1 or 2 5mm leds, the appropriate resistor, and a 9v tail cap. The damn light runs for days, literally, and would be enough light for a cave situation.

There are other lights that would be my first choice depending on scenario and location. As Size15's stated, my G2, E1, or Scorp is my "life" light in many everyday situations and work.


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## jashhash (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm realy considering getting a Fenix L1. 2 hour run time, as bright as a Q3, smaller than Q3, Hard anodizing and all this for $28. It looks relatively simple and runs off common AA batteries. I kinda would like to know more about the Fenix's thermal management though.


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## WDR65 (Sep 12, 2005)

At this point I think my two most trusted lights are my A2 and my TL3. The A2 I trust the most because it has two options for light, even if the bulb breaks I will have light, not the brightest but light. The TL3 I trust b/c it carries a spare bulb and seems to fairly shock resistant and it uses lithium batteries. Though neither of these lights are dive lights the A2 would not worry me if I had to go underwater for a minute or two and though I don't know about the TL3's waterproofing I think it would work alright as long as you don't go too deep. I've dropped a 4D mag down about five feet while it was on one morning duck hunting and it worked fine, very little water leaked around the lens. I'm sure there may be more reliable lights out there, but these are my two at the moment.


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## cy (Sep 12, 2005)

would not trust my life to any one light. electronics can and do fail. backups are necessary for dangerous eviroments. 

my most reliable light is Li14430...


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## CARNAL1 (Sep 13, 2005)

I think I could trust the Princeton Tec EOS. 66 hours on low with lithium batteries. Also, anything that has the ARC name on it. I also think that the Heliotek HTE-1 would be a reliable light. 7 to 8 hours on a set of lithium AA's. That's not bad at all. And I always carry spare lithium AA's in a Batuca spares carrier. Not as waterproof as they could be, but just pop them in a ziplock baggie and you're all set.


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## UWAK (Sep 13, 2005)

bole64... I'm with you man with Inova X5 white. Cheers.

Frids


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## Luxman (Sep 13, 2005)

In general it would seem the more simple the light is the better...but I have come to trust the U2....

SF U2
SF L2
SF X200


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## Deanster (Sep 13, 2005)

Inova X5 - brutally tough, deadly simple. 

ArcAA - same story

Pelican SuperSabrelight 3c, Stealthlite 4aa - just unbeatable, very little to go wrong, and usable in everything from a natural gas leak to a fuel vapor atmosphere to a 500' dive limit. 

For reasons having little to do with actual reliability, I'm always a little distrustful of the very high-powered lights. Surefires are great, but I know just how hard the batteries, LED or filament are being pushed, and it makes me a bit nervous. Even the 1hour runtime LOLAs and LED's leave me feeling like the light might give up the ghost when I really needed it. 

I love my Surefires, but when the question is 'bet your life on one light', it'll be a long life, Lithium-driven, moderate-power light in a very thick and tough plastic or Aluminum housing. No overdrive, potted or no electronics, simple switch, etc. 

I think my answer might be a bit different if 'bet your life' was kicking doors in Iraq, or some other task where max brightness created the most safety, though. Then the Surefires would be my only choice.


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## 270winchester (Sep 13, 2005)

I'll put my money in my Ultra-G and my McLux PD. Twist action means there is no tail cap or switch to break...


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## InFlux (Sep 13, 2005)

I'll stick with my McLux PD's. I'd also like to have a little TnC with me too.

Bart-Please put me down for one of the 20mm beta lights too


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## wquiles (Sep 13, 2005)

Although I just sold mine last week, I think the SF U2 with a few 18650 cells would had been been my choice. Hard to ask for a more versatile and tough light.

Since I no longer have it, I would say that right now my light would be a two or three cell SF "C" body with the new McGizmo two-level switch for the "C" bodies and one of the BugOutGear 3W modules that I have modified and the M2's shock-isolated bezel. Low level would give you plenty of runtime, the two/three cell body provides reasonable water-tightness, it is robust/tough, and there would be no filament to break on a fall to the hard floor.

Will


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## Bob_G (Sep 13, 2005)

Interesting question. I don't spelunk, but I'm outdoors a lot, and used to do a lot of long, solo backpacks in the High Sierra, so I know what it means to have your life depend on your own wits and luck.

Hmm, it would have to be an LED, in case I dropped it. It would have to be made to a high mechanical standard. No mods allowed. Lots of more particular considerations I could name, but generally, that's all I can think of.

Comes down to a SF or a McGizmo creation. In favor of the SF is the production standards and QC that a large company with a serious customer base would have and be able to support. 

But I have to go with a McLuxIII PD. Single cell so spares are easily accommodated. Regulated low, for super runtime. Plenty bright when you need it. Tough. The only clip I've seen that's worth the trouble, so it would be secure - very important, we don't want to lose our only light.

I have to say though, that excepting an act of God, if you find yourself in a situation where your life depended on one light, you screwed up, in more ways than one :tsk:


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## cy (Sep 14, 2005)

nice point bobG, recently went on a two week backpacking trip to Philmount. 

took Li14430/CR2, ti cub and Arc AAA cpf 2003 if that says anything.

ti cub was primary light and lasted 12 days of hard use on one R123 li-ion before switching to backup cell.

Li14430/CR2 is always on my neck, one CR2 li-ion cell will last for months.


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## BentHeadTX (Sep 15, 2005)

I won't trust a single light with my life,
With cy on this one, multiples make more sense. After beating the hell out of lights and having buddies beat their lights up on my recent "5 month camping trip" there are a few lights that failed and others that always worked.
ANYTHING with a "clickie" switch will fail you! If it is an overdriven LED it CAN fail you (ever see a fried X5?) 120F heat really informs you the cooling qualities of an LED light...so does running it for 5 hours straight. The other thing I learned is there is always AA batteries somewere.... 
My lessons learned after two "camping trips" to the desert showed the brutal truth on flashlights. They HAVE to be LED to trust them... they HAVE to have twisty switches to trust them... they HAVE to run on AA alkaline/NiMH/lithiums to feed them... they HAVE to run LEDs at stock levels, the X5 died due to many hours of runtime in HOT weather while sitting in the air stream of power generators. 
It looks like I will go back to the desert eventually (they like experience) I have four LED lights that I trust with my life.
High output -- Peak Mediterranean 2AA twisty running NiMH AA batteries
Keychain -- Peak Matterhorn 3 Snow29 lithium AAA (and NiMH) 
Small UV -- Peak AA 5 UV with lithium AA
Red LED -- Arc AAA red LED with NiMH AAA

The Med has handled 12 foot drops onto marble floors, thrown in water and running it until the batteries died checking for heat problems. It fits my Ripoffs holster made for minimags/Leathermans and other things and with a Berkley stainless steel clip attached, can be secured to body armor. It was not available to play in the sand box, but passed all my tests to break it. 

The Matterhorn 3 Snow29 with lithium AAA for it's great brightness, clean beam, whiteness and it is brighter running a NiMH AAA cell than the original with a lithium AAA. A proven light that has redundant LEDs, if one blows the other two run without being overdriven. A simple dimmer is included...cover the head with your finger to adjust output. Use a NiMH AAA to provide light for long periods when reading, hanging out in bunkers etc. to prevent consumption of lithium AAA cells and for cooler operation. The "spare" NiMH AAA is located in the Arc AAA red LED so swap the batteries when needed. The original Matterhorn survived daily showers, hours of running in bunkers and general walking around. The Snow29 is an improvement on the original. 

Since I mess around with medical equipment, the UV light is used to check equipment for blood or to look inside things looking for scorpions. Yeah, it performs a gruesome task but the minutes I save with it give back the critical minutes patients need. The Peak 5 LED UV has proven itself as the perfect "blood hound". When seconds count for a "go--no go" inspection, that light has saved my butt in the figurative sense and blown up marines in the literal sense. 

Ahhhh, the venerable Arc AAA red LED anodized black, no markings and holding a NiMH AAA battery. It's function is very important; light that can't be seen at a distance. The NiMH AAA is a lower voltage and performs a basic dimming function that works very well. If more punch is needed, a lithium AAA out of the Matterhorn gets swapped. Need more power? Put the red Peak 5 red LED head on the UV body (I carry it also) that thing will blast through the darkness. When red is not needed, the Arc makes a bullet-proof NiMH AAA transporting tube to feed the Matterhorn when reading or illuminating bunkers. 

Now that I think about it, the Med, Matterhorn and Arc I trust with my life. The Peak 5 LED UV is the light that three chopper loads of patients inadvertently trusted with theirs. I don't want to think about what would of happended if I lacked the proper "CPF education" about lighting. Kudos to the CPF crew for providing me information that I used successfully when the chips were down. The Countycomm single UV LED light is still hanging off the side of a digital imaging plate reader in Iraq as the "go-no go" testing device for blood contanimation. Sometimes it is the little things...


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## lrp (Sep 15, 2005)

Benthead, I enjoyed reading your post!


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## racerx2oo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

Streamlight 4AA Propolymer LED (7 LED version)
Rated runtime is 155 hours
Easy to feed with common AA's

Not sure how useful the light output would be at the 155 hour mark, but that is almost a week of constant light. 

For even more usable light there is a 3C version of this light that promises 300+ hours of light.

Additionally the light is water proof and impact resistant. Plus if one of the LED's decides to quit on me, there are still six others going strong. 

Racer X


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## 270winchester (Sep 15, 2005)

racerx2oo3 said:


> Streamlight 4AA Propolymer LED (7 LED version)
> Rated runtime is 155 hours
> Easy to feed with common AA's
> 
> ...



I wouldn't trust that light for anything other than look into the back fo the TV cabinet for a loose screw.

The LEDs are severely over driven to the point of being angry blue, and the runtime is dismal, 6-7 hours to 50 percent and tapers out. SL, like almost every other Non-Surefire company, loves to brag its LED lights' tail time. You'll be luck y if the light is still glowing at 100 hours...

here's the review by quickbeam:

link


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## LowWorm (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, Hans, my pick would be my HDS U60, precisely because of the adjustable output to extend the battery life. So far, I've not put it through its paces, but I use it a lot, and have been impressed with its durability and flexibility in different real-world situations. 

Trusting your life to a light can take many more forms than being stuck in a cave...I think only lights with variable output can really cover the most bases.


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## Sigman (Sep 15, 2005)

Benthead - It's certainly nice to read a post such as that one instead of merely a "white wall" brief!

Thanks for posting that one for sure and indeed for "your services rendered"! :thumbsup:


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## TKC (Sep 15, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The most reliable light I know of (not the brightest by a longshot, but sufficient enough for me in pitch black conditions) would be a tritium variable brightness torch
> 
> 
> 
> ...




WHERE in the world did you get THAT baby from? THAT is tooooooo coooool!!!
I like that alot!!! Do you have a link to the place that you go that from, so I can buy one???? TIA!!!


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## TKC (Sep 15, 2005)

I trust my Sure Fire's with my life!!!

I really, really love my Inova X5!! I also have a kydex sheath with a tritium dot in it; it is cool.


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## xpitxbullx (Sep 15, 2005)

NewBie said:


> With the Gladius, I'd be very worried about dropping it, as some folks have had issues with the tail cap breaking when dropping it from three feet upon an linoleum floor in a house.


 
 True, but in this situation, I just wouldn't put it in LOCKOUT mode. I was wondering if someone was going to bring that up.

Jeff


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## racerx2oo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

270winchester said:


> I wouldn't trust that light for anything other than look into the back fo the TV cabinet for a loose screw.
> 
> The LEDs are severely over driven to the point of being angry blue, and the runtime is dismal, 6-7 hours to 50 percent and tapers out. SL, like almost every other Non-Surefire company, loves to brag its LED lights' tail time. You'll be luck y if the light is still glowing at 100 hours...
> 
> ...


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## fleegs (Sep 15, 2005)

JiL DD!


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## 270winchester (Sep 15, 2005)

racerx2oo3 said:


> 270winchester said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't trust that light for anything other than look into the back fo the TV cabinet for a loose screw.
> ...


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## [email protected] (Sep 15, 2005)

TKC, I'm still working on getting some, read my posts in this thread.


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## racerx2oo3 (Sep 16, 2005)

270winchester said:


> There are better valued light out there, the eternalite can be had for 30-35 bucks . I'm a huge critic of people like SL that exagerate their LED lights' service life and fool people like you inot thinking their lights are better than they actually are.



Hmm...actually the retail packaging on my Propolymer was pretty clear that the light output at the tail end was pretty much non-existent. The graph on the back clearly slowed the dimishing output curve that one can expect in a direct drive light. I mean this isn't exactly magic we are talking about hear, long runtimes = lower light output. This either means bright output with a diminishing tail, or a regulated light run at lower power from the start. Either way you are talking about lower light level to get extended runtime, or additional power to accomplish the same output over a longer period. 

The real reason I would choose this light is not the runtime, that is only a plus. It's because to me it is a proven factor. I press the button and it lights up, every time. For others that same function may be accomplished by a $2 D-Cell Everready. I'm not trying to claim that the Streamlight is the best light out there, I don't beleive that was the point of this thread.

FWIW - I don't get people's over empathsis on runtime, like i mentioned earlier, its really hard to imagine a situation where I would need a light to function for days continuously. Heck I spend a good portion of the night sound asleep without any lights on at all. Unless this thread is once again raising the ever popular "What ____ do you want when the zombies attack?" question yet again.

Racer X


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## Hans (Sep 16, 2005)

LowWorm said:


> Well, Hans, my pick would be my HDS U60, precisely because of the adjustable output to extend the battery life. So far, I've not put it through its paces, but I use it a lot, and have been impressed with its durability and flexibility in different real-world situations.



Like I wrote in my post: The HDS is in many ways an ideal light, and I also consider adjustable output one of its most important features. 

However, at the present time I'm not yet totally convinced of its reliability compared to, say, the Inova X5 or some other "simple" light. That'll take some more time. I'd also like to have the possibility to use AA alkalines, especially on trips to less well-developed parts of the world. 

Hans


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## Hans (Sep 16, 2005)

BentHeadTX said:


> ANYTHING with a "clickie" switch will fail you!



A quick question: I know that you've had problems with Kroll clickies in the past, so I assume you'd consider them unreliable in the kind of environment you're in. But did you also have any problem with, for instance, Surefire clickies like the Z57, which seem to have quite a good reputation as far as their reliability is concerned?

Hans


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## twentysixtwo (Sep 16, 2005)

As far as the most bullet proof dead simple reliable bet your life on it, I'd say LED (No bulb to burn or break with long runtime possible using dual levels) twisty with good seals, a single battery and an easy way to find it in the dark.

Mcgizmo PD with tritium tailcap is about the only one I can think of that meets all of these requirements........


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## haley1 (Sep 16, 2005)

Does anyone know, if the regulator in an led light fails, will it still operate in direct drive?


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## racerx2oo3 (Sep 16, 2005)

I would tend to think not. The most likely cause for regualtor failure would be a shorted circuit, if the circuit is shorted closed, then it might continue to work. However the most likely case would be that the circuit would get shorted open.

Racer X


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## notrefined (Sep 16, 2005)

MY #1 most reliable lights are my nightcutter sportlights. Knowing just how much of a ***** it is to disassemble one, I believe entirely that the first element to fail will be the 5mm LEDs. And while they may be only 8hrs to 50% intensity, I've tested them to run well beyond the advertised 80 hours of "usable" light. 
The only way I can imagine destroying one would be if I happened to, say, drop it in the center of a campfire and wait for the fire to go out before retrieving it.


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## donn (Sep 17, 2005)

Hej folks.
Those tritium lights are called 'Betalights' and have been available in the UK for a while now. I believe there actually made in Austria and somewhere in my list of websites I have (or had) that address so I'll look for it. 
Meantime you can get them here in the UK from a company called Penrith Survival. They ship to the U.S but they aren't cheap:

http://www.edirectory.co.uk/penrith_survival/pages/moreinfoa.asp?pe=CECAEFQ_+betalight&cid=55 

But I just googled 'betalight' and found this company:
www.betalight.com
They appear to have a U.S distributer but I dont know if they sell to the general public.
Hope this helps.
D.


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## [email protected] (Sep 17, 2005)

The Penrith Betalight is the one in Attowatt's pics, not the same as in my pics.


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## donn (Sep 19, 2005)

For anyone whose interested I found the website. Its:
mbmicrotec.com
They manufacture all the Traser stuff ?(glowrings). Unfortunately their new website appears to be under construction at the moment. Im sure I got this address off this forum though


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## stockae92 (Sep 19, 2005)

from my collection, i would probably go for the HA X5, and then it would be my G2Z+P61+SC1 filled with the batteries+P60

i do sometimes EDC my stock Q3, but i don't know if that's my "trust my life to" light


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## BentHeadTX (Sep 19, 2005)

Hans,
My environment we called "moon dust". It was baby powder fine dust that was constantly blowing everywere. Not sure how the Surefire switches held up, my buddies used X5's and minimags with the special teams guys running Surefires. Those guys did break a Surefire but I did not get into the details how they did it. The Surefires are reliable but they were not in general use for general lighting needs. When those puppies fired up, they performed a combat function and the guys conserved the precious CR123A batteries. Most of them had minimags on the armor for walking around. Some of them used X5's duct taped to the armor. Those vests are made to hold AA lights in the loops, I think my Mediterranean 2AA twistie with Berkley stainless clip will be a big hit next time. 
That dust destroyed many mechanical things and flashlights was one of them. The heat has a bad effect on my minimag mod as it tended to overheat and eventually died. The Mediterranean has a larger head and reflector so my overheating problems are gone and I have a choice of Kroll or twistie for switching. When I go play in the desert, I bring around 20 AA NiMH batteries for my 8AA LuxeonV Mag, my camera, my 2AA light and to lend out. A few NiMH AAA batteries so the Matterhorn can be used for reading and not eat lithium AAA batteries it is normally fed. My blackout Arc AAA red LED is also fed NiMH to dim it down a bit. 
Since I use multiple lights everyday out there, standardizing to AA or AAA alkaline/lithium/NiMH batteries is a no-brainer. Heck, I am almost ready to go back again...makes a hell of a place to test flashlights! I am not completely crazy yet... one more time should do it.


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## jwillson (Sep 20, 2005)

jashhash said:


> My question to everyone is this. If say hypothetically you were trapped in a cave and could only have ONE light by your side which one would it be? Would it be something that you tampered with?



If I could only bring one light into a cave, it would be my SureFire L1 on a lanyard with a fresh primary cell. Surefire has a history of manufacturing lights for people who can't afford for their lights to fail. I know, they still aren't perfect, but their track record in extreme circumstances is as good as/better than anyone else's

Reason I would pick this light:
- Long runtime on low light level (90 hour or so in direct drive) 
- The company's incandescent lights, which share many of the same
mechanicals with the L1, have been tested over and over again in 
extreme circumstances
- Low current level--even on higher brightness--means heat is not
likely to affect reliability
- Availability of brighter light level if required for shorter intervals
- No bulb to burn out
- Well sealed against dirt and water
- Twist switch is probably more reliable than clickie

Others have mentioned that electronics can and do fail, so direct drive is preferable. Frankly, I'd be more worried about something mechanical breaking--such as a switch--than I would be about a circuit burning out. It could happen, but I think it's probably the lower risk.

I don't know anything about spelunking, so I may have my priorities out of whack  

The only other flashlights I own that I would consider are my HDS EDC and my Surefire U2. Again, the long runtime on low brightness, good quality construction, shock proof LED, and available higher brightness levels make for a winning combination. These come in second simply because of the clickie switch.

- Jared


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## Gone Jeepin (Sep 20, 2005)

A good question indeed. We spend lots of money on lots of lights and like them for many reasons, but if the chips were down what is the one you bet your bones on? I ask myself this when I build my kits, evaluate my gear, and pack my bag. Like many here I will say that 2 is 1 and 1 is none, so I plan and pack in multiples. I agree with Size 13 on Surefire. No Surefire in my little collection has shown any weakness, I trust them. I also trust my Arc v4 premium AAA, very good light. It is hard to accept that there is no perfect or unbreakable light.


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## PeLu (Sep 21, 2005)

haley1 said:


> Does anyone know, if the regulator in an led light fails, will it still operate in direct drive?



It depends very much on the light. My Melzer Radon has an additional emergency connector which connects the LED almost directly to the source. It even works without the switch.
That means in the case the regulator, switch, main plug etc. fails, you just change to the other plug and get a medium setting as long as the battery lasts.


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## PeLu (Sep 21, 2005)

Hans said:


> A couple of observations: I find it interesting that the HDS doesn't get mentioned more often. Is that because many people don't really trust "complex" lights? Or is it just that the HDS haven't been long enough on the market for people to trust them?



HDS is around quite some time, and my most relyable light I have is an HDS ActionLight I, which I use since 1999. 
I used it for a large number of caving trips (almost exclusively for 6 years) and never had any troubles with it.
It is the first version with the backup light in the battery cap.

On the other hand, the ArcAAAs we use turned out to be unerelyable, we had about half of them failing. They were used as emergency lights on a cord around the neck. First we thought they will be the ultimate backups, but fortunately nobody got stuck with them in the dark (they showed their failure in not life threating situations).

We just discussed that topic and I have reports from caving trips were all four Petzl Duo lamps failed (on a single trip!) so that these four cavers had to use their backups.
And one case where four cavers had two lights each and all failed except one. 
With my ActionLight I never had the need for a backup (up to now).


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## PeLu (Sep 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> TKC, I'm still working on getting some, read my posts in this thread.



I do have the very same model of these beta light, but mine is getting dim now, actually almost too dim to be of real use. 
I bought it in a shop in Vienna and used to take it with me caving when I stayed underground for several days. 
I prefer smaller lights with more output.


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## Krit (Sep 21, 2005)

Lights that you trust with your life.? 

I always carry more than 2 flashlights during my field trip. One flashlight is compact size luxeon 123a and another one is xenon 2*123a bulb light. Luxeon bulb never blow out during use but not far throw as xenon 60 lumens bulb. I also keep my Dorcy 1AAA in my bag all time. Dorcy 1AAA light is enough for live in total dark and have long runtime with light body weight.


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## evanlocc (Sep 21, 2005)

Any lights that can be reach at the moment. 

Still vote for the Dorcy AAA for all reason.


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## Lightraven (Sep 21, 2005)

Here's a list of lights that I have seen fail unexpectedly (not due to batteries dying or bulb ending its normal lifespan or being abused):

Surefire U2 (brand new)
Surefire M6 (nearly new)
Arc AAA (nearly new)
Minimag
CC Crane Trek 2 (partial failure, never used)

I would use, but not trust, these lights.

The flashlight I have used the most that has never failed unexpectedly:

Streamlight Stinger (of course, the batteries eventually stop holding a charge and the bulb eventually blows)

There are two lights I would consider for high reliability/trustworthiness:

Photon II--extremely simple design
Surefire E1L with twist tailcap instead of clickie--not much to go wrong with this design


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## AuroraLite (Sep 21, 2005)

Very interesting read. As flashaholics, we collect and purchase all kinds of flashlights known to human, but when by the end of the day, we might rely our lives on lights that might not be where we spend most of our money.

BentheadTX,

Very interesting story. :thumbsup: Personally, I really love and adore my minimags mod(maybe from a sentimental standpoint, and FWIW, I hardly heard of any failure due to mechanical reasons)--and I am also very curious to how well it could really perform under various kind of conditions as well. I have heard that BB500 do generate more heat and faster than that of BBNG500.
So if heat become a lesser of an issue(a mod with less heat and running moderately on spec), do you think your minimag mod will survive the torture test? How do your buddies original minimags holding up?

I am tempted to suggest a MM lite RY0J or the BBNG500 for your minimag if you would give it a try, but certainly, your real life experience will be the best measuring tape... 

There is probably no such system/circuit that could claim 100% efficiency, so from your experience, how much heat(under normal room temperature) of a led flashlight will be acceptable and not be viewed as a risk in your situation?


Hans,

From your list of requirement, I am thinking a good minimag mod is probably one of the closest thing one could get. It probably is not completely waterproof, but should be dunkable for a short period of time. It could go into candle mode, and has a twisty. Pretty secure lanyard point. Polycarbonate lens. And a POP sandwich with TxxH lux inside should give you variable level of light. 

Or a Mclux PD, two levels of truely regulated level of light. Probably waterproof and has a twisty. Strong clip and great lanyard point. One cell only. Only part that might not make the list is the 123 battery(which is probably good for different weather condiiton) Just my humble 2 cents worth... 


Anyway, if I were to trust my 'life' to a flashlight, here is a list of them:

SF A2
Minimag mod
Mclux PD
Jil 1.3w or DD

But I probably will never be relying my life on one light only, since I have some of the listed above and other light with me at all time anyway. :naughty:


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## Hans (Sep 21, 2005)

PeLu said:


> HDS is around quite some time, and my most relyable light I have is an HDS ActionLight I, which I use since 1999.
> I used it for a large number of caving trips (almost exclusively for 6 years) and never had any troubles with it.
> It is the first version with the backup light in the battery cap.



That's good to hear. The reason I asked was that so few people mentioned the HDS here, not that I think there's anything wrong with the lights. On the contrary, so far I'm more than happy with my HDS, even though the switch can be a bit difficult to operate. It's not really the kind of switch I'd like to have when I'm in a cold environment. 

*sigh* You can't have it all, it seems.

Hans


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## Hans (Sep 21, 2005)

AuroraLite said:


> From your list of requirement, I am thinking a good minimag mod is probably one of the closest thing one could get. <snip>
> 
> Or a Mclux PD, two levels of truely regulated level of light. Probably waterproof and has a twisty. Strong clip and great lanyard point. One cell only. Only part that might not make the list is the 123 battery(which is probably good for different weather condiiton) Just my humble 2 cents worth...



Thanks for the suggestions. A MiniMag mod is one of the things I didn't really consider so far, but that idea makes a lot of sense. The McLux also sounds pretty good. I'll have to look into this 

BTW, at the moment I carry my E1L with a McGizmo two stage tailcap quite a lot. That's also a pretty simple and straightforward light that seems to be pretty reliable.

Hans


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## BentHeadTX (Sep 21, 2005)

AuroraLite,
The BB500 Minimag mods were used for my two deployments to Iraq, and they made it through. My first generation 2002 version worked fine in early 2003 when I first played in that particular country. It ATE alkaline 2AA cells at an extraordinary rate but was great to have. 
The second time around I went with an R2H version for the lower amount of heat output, longer runtimes and much brighter output. The poor Kroll took at least 35 on/off actions per day and just gave it up after three months. I replaced the Kroll as I brought spares and pressed on. The way to damage the light is to put it in a holster, freshly charged NiMH batteries and mount it to your belt. The sirens go off, throw on the ceramic body armor which pressed on the head of the minimag activating the light. It is 115F outside, the light is on and I can't see it due to the body armor covering the head. That light will COOK in a holster in desert heat and it got so hot that the output started to drop. The batteries even suffered from the heat damage. 
I don't fault the sandwich, I don't fault the switch... the severe heat was the situation. To solve that problem is now easy to correct. The Mediterranean head has the Luxeon in the head and not the top of the body. The solid mass, fins and potted construction keep the light fairly cool even when turned on in my holster (I checked) The long 2AA body helps keep the light cool while the NiMH batteries provide the power. Switch the Kroll out for the twisty portion of the device, attach a Berkley clip and no more accidental turn-ons. For day-to-day EDC use, the Kroll is used as I know if I accidently turned it on. 
I was always a bit nervous about the waterproofness of the minimag, it does handle rain if the head is loc-tited on. Much more waterproof if it is done that way. Never threw a minimag mod in a sink of water but the Mediterranean laughs at that test. It works, it has choices concerning switches, can be used with the magnet/clamp loc-line device, used with Berkley clips and different CR123A bodies. What more could one want?
 Actually, a two-position high/low switch would be a great addition! If I was a betting man... bet Peak is messing around with the idea and I will get in line to buy one! One additional light I would want to get is the Fujiyama 2AAA stainless single with momentary switch and pocket clip. I'll hook up my favorite doctors with it and see if they can break one. 
My hope for the next time is I get at least one day off a month. The last time it was 5 months straight without a break and I could never work on my 8AA nFlex WX1S Mag mod. Finished it when I got back but next time I would like to just play with my lights! For now, the 2D R2H @ 800mA Mag mod is heading to Iraq (via California on the second leg of the trip) Give a shot to the Marines to see if they can break it.


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## BIGD (Sep 21, 2005)

There are alot of votes for the SF U2 and I can surley agree since I dearly love mine. Unfortunately I have had my U2 "go nuts" on me and stick in the on position while on the highest level. At times the tailcap "clickie" does flake out and not turn on or not turn off. It has not been a big problem so I have not sent it in (I know there was issues with the tailcaps) but it does make for a question mark. I think I would choose my SF C2 that has a KL3 gen1 head. That thing is my Nightstand light and it makes enough light to see everywhere in a room or to walk in pitch black woods. I think it still has the same batteries in it from when I bought it a few years ago and it gets used all the time for "quick looks". I just feel like that little light could survive anything that I could and always work. Besides, it has to be one of the coolest looking lights on the planet with those fins.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 22, 2005)

Hans,
E1L does sound like a good candidate. Though I have the parts, I never do carry it as an EDC or use it extensively. I ought to look into that now that you have mentioned it. :thanks: 


BentHeadTx,
Sounds like there are pros and cons about Minimags and its mod, and from reading your detailed post, the accidental switch-on(is it mostly because the kroll got compressed when you put on the armor?), heat and so-so water resistance are some major cons for this light in your situation. 

Hmm...kinda make me wonder and re-evaluate its all-around capacity. I remembered Mr. Blue had put teflon tape on the threads to make it dunkable/waterproof, and the result sounds kinda promising. Of course, the potting will do the trick too. 

Accidental turn-on could be caused by compressing the kroll or the misalignment of the reflector/sammie, once in a long while, I do observe the same issue and deduct the cause could be long term grinding on-off which has costed the twist on-off become less consistent and reliable. A metal reflector replacement seems to be able to fix this problem. Another resolution could be the new upcoming clicky by Terralux TCS-1. If that works, then we will have double on-off function(twist on-off, click on-off) on the same Minimag for extra insurance. :thumbsup:


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## BentHeadTX (Sep 22, 2005)

Aurora,
The armor did not interfere when I was standing up, when I sat down the armor would push the head down and click the switch on or just enough for it to light. During the night this was not a problem, it is a strong light! During the day it would light up without me knowing it and bake in the holster and the hot temps. It did not take on water in the rain but I would not trust it in water. 
For normal EDC usage, the minimag mods work very well. I used them for three years until my bizarre use showed obscure weaknesses. A good tailswitch would eliminate most of the problems except overheating problems in desert heat. That is why I will stick with the Peak Mediterranean, I can reconfigure it to suit normal to extreme needs.


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## beezaur (Sep 22, 2005)

How about this for a twist:

Lights that I trust with YOUR life.

I have been a volunteer firefighter for 15 years and, after a ~6-year hiatus, I am recertifying as an Emergency Medical Technician (EMT). I had been following this thread and thinking to myself which lights I want for my own safety. Mostly that means firefighting, but there is a small security aspect too. Nothing big -- my exposure is pretty mundane even with my emergency service, especially compared to you guys with sandbox time.

The EMT class is bringing back a flood of memories from the days (and nights) when I was responsible for patient care in the field. I was the guy who had to find your various leaking body fluids, pokes, abnormal bumps, bad skin color, etc. Soon I will be that guy again. I have to be able to see to do that job, a job which sometimes has to be done in some pretty uncomfortable and dark and wet and muddy and worse places. 

I had been using a SureFire L2, which is an ideal light for that kind of duty. I consider it highly reliable, and the flood is ideal. Since dead batteries is a really bad excuse, I decided to get a spare light, a SureFire L4. I am using a McGizmo 2-stage switch that makes it great for filling out forms and also doing major illumination. (I would not be surprized if it is more reliable than the clicky.) Now the L2 is my backup.

Anyway, it was a great excuse to get a new light 

Scott


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## AuroraLite (Sep 22, 2005)

BentHeadTX,
Thanks for your reply, and have fun with your 8AA nflex lux V mod(IMHO, it is mighty fun to play with and quite practical in use). Now, I shall go check out the Mediterranean--based on your review, it seems to be quite robust and can take some serious punishment. :naughty:


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## BentHeadTX (Sep 23, 2005)

Aurora,
My WX1S LuxeonV 8AA 2D Mag mod is a great light! It won't take the beating a Mediterranean can but it is very stealthy. Nothing like 2D Mag sitting around that has a large surprise when the momentary switch is activated. The 8 levels of illumination, large flood spill beam and larger hotspot of the Luxeon V make it very flexible. If I go back to the sandbox, it will go along with my Peaks and Arcs to be the cannon and variable output light. 
There is something about modded Mags that make this hobby so much more entertaining.


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## io333 (Dec 18, 2005)

evanlocc said:


> Any lights that can be reach at the moment.
> 
> Still vote for the Dorcy AAA for all reason.



Well after being socked hard by Katrina, and then Rita, and having just returned to New Orleans a five days ago, I would have to agree on the DorcyAAA. It was what I had with me, and again what I had with me when Katrina came in... I was waiting for a new fancy light to arrive in the mail in east Texas when Rita blew civilization apart once again. Dorcy AAA saved my petunia, and the thing is one of the originals -- I bought it I think 4 years ago when they first hit the shelves, before it was even reviewed here.


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## cheapo (Dec 18, 2005)

Pelican M6 LED, I havent had a single problem with that light. I would not trust my Micra at all, because it is still having problems. My M6 3W and my Kl1 on Vital Gear FB1 have had a few problems but right now they are fully functional. They'd have to be fully functional for a few more weeks before i trust them with my life. 

-David


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## MacTech (Dec 18, 2005)

in the original OP situation (trapped in a cave);
if i was limited to *one* light of the ones i have, it'd be an Inova X5, long battery life and practically indestructible (barring extreme temperatures and the like)
two lights out of my stock, X5 and 6P
ideally, the best 2 light combo would be an X5 and Betalight

in a societal collapse situation (Katrina or other mega-hurricaine/riots/terror attack);
X5 and 6P, fully loaded SC-1 with P61, Mossberg 500 12-gauge, and Taurus 689 .357 Magnum
hopefully i wouldn't be forced to use the firearms, but better to have them and not need them...

in a Zombie attack  ;
6P with loaded SC-1, Mag 6D, Mossberg 500 (with SureFire in a weapons-mount fore-end)


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## Sub_Umbra (Dec 18, 2005)

I think Benthead's comments on twisties were right on the money. Because of arthritis I absolutely hate the bigger, 'two handed' twisties, but I have a few of them around for when things really come unglued because I wouldn't trust any other type of switch for a *last resort* light. I expect them to still be working when nothing else will.

Perhaps HDS hasn't been mentioned often because the OP specified that you could carry "ONLY one" light. I haven't read the Actionlight manual but I know that the EDC manual very prudently states that it should not be used in dangerous environs _without a backup light._ I don't think that this takes away anything from HDS lights -- it's a very thoughtful warning that shows how serious Henry is about his lights.


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## John N (Dec 18, 2005)

Hans said:


> I'm more than happy with my HDS, even though the switch can be a bit difficult to operate. It's not really the kind of switch I'd like to have when I'm in a cold environment.
> 
> *sigh* You can't have it all, it seems.
> 
> Hans



Contact HDS. There were problems with some of the switches and so far HDS has fixed/replaced the switches if you contact them directly.

-john


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## lightcacher (Dec 18, 2005)

Probably go with a Dorcy Super 1-watt 3-D or an Inova X5


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## firefly99 (Dec 18, 2005)

I would bet on either a) Z2 + KL5 or b) G2 + KL3, to save my a$$.

It is one thing to enhance your light by making unauthorize changes to an OEM light and loving it. It is another matter to depend on it, without tests to verify it performance and reliablity under stress conditions. 

How many modder had actually subject their mod light to tests, to verify the limits of the light ?


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## turbodog (Dec 19, 2005)

I'm not voting this light in the save my life category, but FYI the UK 4aa eled series seems to be hanging tough.

My 4 wheeler has a compartment beside the handlebars for small items. I keep a uk 4aa eled in there and nothing else. It's not a snug fit so the light bounces from the top to the bottom of the compartment continually.

It's been in there 6+ months and MANY miles with no problems.

It's the model with the twist bezel, not the clicky switch.


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## paulr (Dec 19, 2005)

The betalight has no moving or electronic parts to fail, but it's a glass capsule and can probably break with an impact. The most impact resistant light (or at least drop resistant) is probably the Photon II just because it's so lightweight.

Re led vs incan: leds can fail, less often than incans burn out, but any incan user carries spare bulbs. Most other types of incan light failures can be fixed with a pocket knife. Failed led lights are generally out of commission permanently, until you can do some kind of electronic repair.

Navy Seals apparently use the Tektite Expedition dive lights, powered by three C cells, with 7, 14, or 19 leds. Lots of redundancy, separate resistor for each led nowadays. I doubt the Peak Matterhorn has a separate resistor for each led. The Tektite plastic shell is highly pressure and impact resistant. I don't have an Expedition but have a Trek 4 (3AA, 4 leds) and a Trek Lithium (1x 3.6volt AA-sized lithium, 1 led direct drive) and these lights seem bulletproof. Also the Tekna Splashlite, very inefficient incan model but not much can go wrong with it except the bulb. 

Racerx2003's comments are generally well taken, we don't need ridiculous runtime in most imaginable scenarios.


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## Cavannus (Dec 19, 2005)

As a "cataphile" urban explorer, especially fan of quarries, here is a very practical and basic question for me!!

_If I should take only one light:_ my Maglite with a Luxeon III bulb (and another bulb in the tail cap, my old Eipion Luxeon 1W or a stock new bulb). Quite reliable, solid, using a bright led and during more than 12 hours (led for dimming light when batteries become tired... and without regulation which my break because Luxeon heating).











_The most reliable light:_ a Cyalume stick. Waterproof, unbreakable, without any electronic component, easy to carry in ones boot, etc. And more luminous than a trinium bulb. The green Cyalume has the better visual efficiency.

_General rule for caving in grotto:_ only head lamps fixed on the helmet, and at least two different lamps. Classic configurations include both of these: Petzl Duo (with leds), FX (halogen or Luxeon V) with belt batteries, acetylene burner with belt generator, Petzl Tikka in the pocket,...

_General rule for urban exploration:_ at least two lamps per person if a group, at least three or four lamps if alone (some friends and I have ever got two lamps broken or off during the exploration plus the third one becoming off...). 
That means:
- one very bright lamp, quite reliable: Maglite, acetylene lamp,...;
- one spare lamp, bright enough and quite reliable: other flashlight,...;
- one spare spare lamp, very reliable: Cyalume, candles, simple flashlight,...

Lamps used by Parisian urban/quarry explorers are very variable: Maglite and clones, acetylene lamp, candle in a beer can, Cyalum in the pocket or in the boot, led flashlight, kerosene lantern, etc. etc.

That's all!!


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## voodoogreg (Dec 19, 2005)

Aside from a couple of caveats, (LED and multi level) i am torn between a mechanical path and the HDS electronics. In a SF light or other non EC setup
there are thing's i know can be done if a partial malfunction happens like a switch (pull the spring off lay it sideways to complete the circuit foil etc)

But after almost a yr with the HDS everyday abused heavily, it's never hicupped once, and with it's power saving feature's getting out of a life threatening sitch, I will get better mileage from the cell.(and i know a bit about relay's and such, and have a feeling I may after cutting the cap off, know how to get it running if it, and not the EC fail's)

edge to HDS IMO, but knowing if i had to, I could get a SF KL-1 to work with the battery and gum wrapper's is assuring too. VDG


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## Hans (Dec 19, 2005)

John N said:


> Contact HDS. There were problems with some of the switches and so far HDS has fixed/replaced the switches if you contact them directly.



The switch of my HDS stopped functioning correctly in the meantime. I contacted Henry, and he's sending me a new battery tube. His service is excellent.

However, at the moment I think I'd take my E1L+McGizmo 2-stage tailcap and FX04 beamshaper if I were limited to one light. Fewer things to go wrong. 

Hans


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## paulr (Dec 19, 2005)

Hate to say it but chemical lightsticks are generally not all that reliable. They break in transit or the chemicals in them go bad, etc. Some cavers seem to hate them.


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## Deanster (Dec 19, 2005)

Benthead - 

thanks for your extensive write-ups. If you have a few moments, I'd be very interested in hearing more about the Inova x5 failure. 

Was this a 100% thermal failure from a super-hot environment, or is there something in the design which made the failure more likely? Hard to imagine that the LED's create enough heat to be a problem in that big thick metal head, but that same metal does conduct any external heat right into the LED's and electronics - one reason I tend to think that metal bodies might not be the first choice for very high temp situations. 

This light is on my list despite the electronics, because it's overall a very solid light and fairly simple light, but it may be that no regulated light should be on the 'trust w/ your life' list in 'desert camping', as extended high temps are a true electronics killer. 

You'd mentioned that the light died in long runs in generator exhaust - I'm mostly interested in whether we're talking about 'desert sun' hot (150-200 degrees F), or 'oven hot' (250+degrees F) - if the former, the light might fall off the list - if the latter, that seems like it's well outside the performance envelope that one can ask of a light. 

Anything else you have to share about the failure mode would also be a big help - some/all LED's fail, total failure to light, dim lighting, or whatever happened.

Thanks in advance!


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 19, 2005)

An X5 is on my list as well.

I've only had a few failures, and one was a Kroll. The others were CHEAP lights.

I don't cave or do many other activities that would be as bad as a cave. I carry a Minim*g "mod" and an ARC AAA every day and feel fine by it!


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## Cavannus (Dec 23, 2005)

paulr said:


> Hate to say it but chemical lightsticks are generally not all that reliable. They break in transit or the chemicals in them go bad, etc. Some cavers seem to hate them.


Oops! My friends and I have always considered them as really reliable, and we haven't had any problem with ours, used a few time after having been bought.

But now I'll take care, thanks for this comment!!

So, it seems that noone has built a very solid and reliable lamp, which would be really the most reliable lamp of the world!...


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## Blazer (Dec 23, 2005)

NewBie said:


> With the Gladius, I'd be very worried about dropping it, as some folks have had issues with the tail cap breaking when dropping it from three feet upon an linoleum floor in a house.


 
Isn't that what the lanyard is for? Zip it to your wrist and fear of dropping it is eliminated.


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## PaulW (Dec 23, 2005)

With my life? It would have to be simple -- incandescent with no electronics. And it would have to be a SureFire -- rugged and reliable -- preferably the M series. That's enough for me. Oh, and I would have to have a spare bulb. 

Paul


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## greenLED (Dec 23, 2005)

I'm really surprised nobody's mentioned the CMG Infinity. Did I miss any requirements? They're well built, decent amount of light, looooooong runtimes. I keep a few stashed for this same purpose. You don't need a SF Beast to survive inside a cave, quite the contrary. :nana:


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## Sub_Umbra (Dec 23, 2005)

greenLED said:


> I'm really surprised nobody's mentioned the CMG Infinity. Did I miss any requirements? They're well built, decent amount of light, looooooong runtimes. I keep a few stashed for this same purpose. You don't need a SF Beast to survive inside a cave, quite the contrary. :nana:


Yup. My most used light during the six week Katrina blackout was an old blue/green Infinity. I also wished I had one that was only *half as bright,* but otherwise the same old Infinity package.


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## JimH (Dec 23, 2005)

I don't think anyone has mentioned a Fire-Fli. At least a search didn't turn up any posts. 

I don't know if I'd go for it as my primary light, but as an alternate light or backup light it's pretty hard to beat. Run time 80 hours on a set of batteries. You can carry a package of spare batteries (2 changes of batteries) in your pocket without even noticing it.

That's over 12.5 days runtime from something on your keychain that's so small you don't even know it's there. Forget the extra batteries, what other light, that you can always have with you no matter what, will give you almost 4 days run time.

Oh, and it's waterproof to boot.


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## greenLED (Dec 24, 2005)

you mean the key chain Fire-Fli, or the larger, DSpeck's FireFly?


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## paulr (Dec 24, 2005)

You can also get ridiculously long runtime from a 3 volt coin cell light. Green led is my favorite for that, but white works too. Just replace the two CR2016's with a single CR2032.


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## JimH (Dec 24, 2005)

greenLED said:


> you mean the key chain Fire-Fli, or the larger, DSpeck's FireFly?



The keychain Fire-Fli. Stainless steel, waterproof, 80 hour run time, lifetime warranty. It will easily illuminate a whole room in a pitch black environment.


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## bahamut (Dec 25, 2005)

Where do you get those tritium torches, (mentioned on page 1)? Sorry if this question has been asked, I'm quite new to this forum.


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## [email protected] (Dec 25, 2005)

You can read a little more about them here . 
Normally these aren't available for civillian use, but I will have another groupbuy for them in a few weeks probably... ( :bump:   )


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## fieldops (Dec 25, 2005)

My first thought would be my M3, but runtime,batteries and lamps may be an issue. I guess I would have to go with a U2. Long runtimes on low, very bright on high. As many others have said....It is a _must_ to have a backup light. I would likely use my Q3 to have interchangeable batteries. The L1Ps with lithiums are nice too for backup.

fieldops


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## greenLED (Dec 25, 2005)

JimH said:


> The keychain Fire-Fli. Stainless steel, waterproof, 80 hour run time, lifetime warranty. It will easily illuminate a whole room in a pitch black environment.



Guess what Santa-Jon sent me!?  
(thanks, Jon!)


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## PeLu (Dec 27, 2005)

Beta lights:


[email protected] said:


> Normally these aren't available for civillian use


Why not? I've bought it in a perfectly normal store .


jtice said:


> BTW, an Arc AA is ALOT of light in a cave.


 I've mentioned several times that most of our ArcAAAs used as backup light sources for caving failed for different reasons. They are far away from beeing a light to trust a live on them.

And my ActionLight1 (one piece model) never had any malfunction since more than 6 years. And so it was for all the other people I know using them. All of them heavily used.


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## [email protected] (Dec 27, 2005)

PeLu, I've been searching for these particular ones for a long time already, and the only ones I've found available on the web were the inferior Beta torches, the only variable brightness torches I found were only available to the military or police.

I based that quote on these findings.


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## dougmccoy (Dec 27, 2005)

I guess you'll disagree with me but I wouldn't trust my life to any one light! In the balance of probabilities there is a 50/50 chance of malfunction with any single device. Even knives can break? In a survival situation I'd hope to have better odds stacked against me than 50/50?
The tritium devices are probably as close to dependability as you will find but would you really want to use that as your sole source of light whilst navigating the interior of a cave?
In case any one asks I've used a tritium light which appeared identical to the images shown earlier in this thread and whilst I would be happy to use it to read by I definitely wouldn't try to use it to navigate in a cave, even with night adapted eyes.
If you are unlucky enough to have access to only one light then you have done your preperation badly!
I would at the present time agree with those folks who have advised DD LED's with lithium batteries and which are dive rated. However, I wouldn't ever have only one light to depend on! As an old instructor once taught me the key to success is preperation,preperation,preperation?

Doug


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## John N (Dec 27, 2005)

PeLu said:


> Beta lights:
> Why not? I've bought it in a perfectly normal store .



It's a US thing.

-john


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## [email protected] (Dec 27, 2005)

Not just US John,  I thought I found a source for variable brightness torch in England some years back, but they only were for sale for military and police. The Betalight however I found at a few places, but having handled one recently I'm glad I never bought one... :thumbsdow


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## Phaserburn (Dec 27, 2005)

This is a fun thread. To me, this question seems to revolve around 2 things: *minimizing all potential points of failure* (my life is being wagered, correct?) and decent if not long runtime. I agree that multiple lights are the way to go, but that's not what this exercise is about. So IMO, things to avoid/eliminate:

Clickie switches
Electronics of ANY kind; this includes boost circuits, regulators or even plain resistors: Direct Drive only
Any wiring
Incan bulbs; they are an obvious point of failure. Trying to change to a spare in the dark is another obvious point of failure (wouldn't want to drop the bulb in a pitch black cave)
Overdriven leds (if the light gets warm within the first 30 mins, what will it be like at hour #5?
Plastic bodies; while some are quite tough, aluminum is tougher: especially keeping the two or more main pieces of the light together when impacted sharply or at an angle
Lights without adequate o-ring seals; preferably only one (lights that only open at one end, not both like a Minimag.)
Lights using alkaline batteries; lithiums have superior performance and dependability in multiple areas. One cell is preferrable.
Single 5mm led lights: my life in the balance demands a few more lumens, please. An Arc AAA might be alot of light in a cave, but how about elsewhere? It would have to be able to throw at least a little bit better than bare 5mm leds can to spot and see through smoke/dust etc.
Preferred: _gold contacts_, _lanyard or wrist strap_, the ability to dependably stand upright in _candle mode_
I don't have one, but isn't this a Jil DD? There are probably others, but that leaps to mind. It's small size and weight would also lend itself to emergency useage applications (like using a piece of duct tape to attach it to a baseball cap as a headlamp, for example.) The wrist strap is a biggie; do you have one on your glovebox light? You should.


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## voodoogreg (Dec 27, 2005)

Phaserburn said:


> This is a fun thread. To me, this question seems to revolve around 2 things: *minimizing all potential points of failure* (my life is being wagered, correct?) and decent if not long runtime. I agree that multiple lights are the way to go, but that's not what this exercise is about. So IMO, things to avoid/eliminate:
> 
> Clickie switches
> Electronics of ANY kind; this includes boost circuits, regulators or even plain resistors: Direct Drive only
> ...



Good protocol. I will mention one "fact". depending on the wear, quality and aplication process, gold plating can cause problem's. I have More then once,
Been in situations that a flake of gold plate has come off and impaired or killed electrical contact in recording studio, and sound system applicaton's.
There is a few ways to appy it, i am told (I know nothing about metallurgy, other then which type of contact metal's work better then other's) and sometimes the plating doesn't just wear away but detachs, turn's, and renders a dead short.

Obviously there is much higher rate of this in a recording studio were cables, faders, and patchbays are being manipulated constantly but it does happen. VDG


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## tron3 (Dec 27, 2005)

Like others, I want my QIII as a powerhouse standby.

But being trapped in a cave, or other dark place can be for HOURS.
I want my 4 C-cell 5watt Nuwai. Battery life is key.
http://store.advancedmart.com/lu5wledalfl1.html

3 Digitally Controlled Brightness Levels at 100%(4hrs), 50%(8 hrs), 25%(15hrs).
Up to 120 lumens Output power (60 times Brighter than standard LEDs).
DC-DC Regulator maintains Maximum Light Output throughout the Entire Battery Life.
Flashing mode for Emergencies.
Water Resistant.
Nylon Pouch Included.

The only downside? Not plastic to survive the harsh environment of a cave.

Barring that, striker-vg for the fantastic brightness and variable brightness.


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## SF Junkie (Jan 10, 2006)

SF M2, No Exeptions.


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## Macaw (Jan 22, 2006)

I'll throw in my choice; the Peak CPF Special:
Direct drive LED (no electronics)
Twisty 
10+ hours runtime on single primary Lithium cell with no heat issues when using the primary.
Solid aluminum construction with O-rings for water resistance.
Small enough for EDC so you have it with you when you need it.

I carry the extra RCR123A cell and a primary where ever I go.
I also carry the Fenix L1P with two stage mod for backup. Even with a switch failure I still have low power which is better than nothing. I carry spare lithium cells for that too.
When I get my ORB RAW NS, I'll have it on a neck chain and carry two extra LiIon cells for that. Several hours runtime on low with each of those cells. 

I be loaded for bear!


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## cheapo (Jan 23, 2006)

cheapo said:


> Pelican M6 LED, I havent had a single problem with that light. I would not trust my Micra at all, because it is still having problems. My M6 3W and my Kl1 on Vital Gear FB1 have had a few problems but right now they are fully functional. They'd have to be fully functional for a few more weeks before i trust them with my life.
> 
> -David



Well, finally, the threads went down on this light... ahh well, It has served me well.

-David


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## wojtek_pl (Jan 24, 2006)

That would be CMG Infinity Ultra. Tough, quite bright, looong runtime... This is THE flashlight I would like to have if I stuck in an elevator for a day...

Then perhaps Fenix L1P with low mode...


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## hquan (Jan 24, 2006)

My answer is: the one being held by the rescue worker / LEO that found me!

Seriously - I've learned a lot from reading the thread - keep it coming!

I'm planning to use my HDS U60 as my EDC / emergency light - is this a good idea?


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## edakoppo (Feb 13, 2006)

Phaserburn said:


> This is a fun thread. To me, this question seems to revolve around 2 things: *minimizing all potential points of failure* (my life is being wagered, correct?) and decent if not long runtime. I agree that multiple lights are the way to go, but that's not what this exercise is about. So IMO, things to avoid/eliminate:
> 
> Clickie switches
> Electronics of ANY kind; this includes boost circuits, regulators or even plain resistors: Direct Drive only
> ...



What's the runtime of a Jil DD without the Intelli option? Have been searching for 2 days and zipola comes up.


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## cy (Feb 28, 2006)

Now that I've used Stenlight for a bit. I'm trusting it more and more. 

still would not trust my life with any one light. but stenlight would be my primary light. U2 would be my first backup. along with my trustie Li14430/CR2, which has never ever failed me.


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## Spin (Mar 1, 2006)

Lightwave 2000 & Gerber ultra Infinity


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## glock_nor_cal (Mar 1, 2006)

you guys ready to trust your life to an incandescent bulb are nutso. I'll take an led anyday.


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## Nyctophiliac (Mar 1, 2006)

Dark cave-frightening concept...

Ok, primary choice - INOVA X5t - good flood, built like a brick sh#th##se, long runtime, no quick drop from regulation.
If small is an issue, as said before ARC AAA P or Infinity Ultra (Are these really direct drive??) or even an INOVA X1 would be handy, good throw but actually thinking about it, not too good for flood. Cave navigation while staring through a drinking straw!! Might work if the inside of the cave is painted white? But very water proof/reliable.


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## Phaserburn (Mar 1, 2006)

edakoppo said:


> What's the runtime of a Jil DD without the Intelli option? Have been searching for 2 days and zipola comes up.


 
The Jil DD will run for over 20 hrs, IIRC.


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## edakoppo (Mar 1, 2006)

Thanks, PB--that helps a lot!


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