# The future in dive lighting



## lucca brassi (Jul 18, 2012)

Something for hot summer .... (and bored from maglite mods :devil: )

BMW for sometime develops (blue ) laser head lights http://wot.motortrend.com/bmw-shows...lights-and-dynamic-lightspot-work-126103.html 






Point it is to with blue laser ( probably have most energy due wave length ) radiated phosphor capsule to white











Well .... we have powerfull blue lasers http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html (1W!!! )



Concept of divelight is well known ..... test tube diving light 








*All you need is to fix phosporous capsule in that test tube and blow it with laser....... who will be the first ? *

and autonomy of that light should last ... ;-)


----------



## demonic69 (Jul 18, 2012)

I've got one of those lights, now all I need is a laser, and some phosphorus


----------



## lucca brassi (Jul 18, 2012)

interesting version in other style is also there ( ultra spot :thumbsup: )

http://www.rog8811.com/whitelaserpointer.htm

hmm ... how to get that capsule :thinking:


----------



## yorkie_chris (Jul 18, 2012)

Cool!
Looks like one of those swords in halo...


----------



## jspeybro (Jul 18, 2012)

yeah, been looking into this as well but it's hard to find the phosphorescent material, even as a powder.


----------



## demonic69 (Jul 18, 2012)

Reads like they're actually using yellow phosphorus, possibly in some acrylic or even suspended inn water or oil. Does anyone work on a school science lab?


----------



## lucca brassi (Jul 18, 2012)

as I have read phospor..... is *super dangerous* ( it firesat itself 15°C , dangerous of DEEP burns , smoke is also dangerous in clean form , but also inappropriate for such thing. 

It looks better for inner fluorescent tube coating , special because it's mixture is designed for specific output radiated wavelength ( for example CW - cool white , NW-neutral white , WW-warm white ) and it is also powered from UV spectrum inside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp#Phosphor (diagrams lower)

destroying fluorescent tubes it is also dangerous for enviroment and yourself because of mercuy vapours inside ... so that way is not recomended ....but to get some small sample from companies that produce fluo lamps.... I think sample should be compresed in small small tablet and protected with glass


----------



## jspeybro (Jul 18, 2012)

they actually use the same principle as white leds where they emit blue light and add a phosphor that converts the blue partially into green, yellow, red so the end result looks white.

I think you are mixing up the element phosphor with phosphorescence which is an effect similar to fluorescence but on a longer time scale (slower). Phosphor is indeed quite a reactive material, but is out of the picture in this discussion I think.

I wouldn't break fluorescent tubes, they explode when you do so. pretty scary if you don't expect that ;-)


----------



## lucca brassi (Jul 18, 2012)

> I wouldn't break fluorescent tubes, they *explode *when you do so. pretty scary if you don't expect that ;-)



they all IMPLODE because of low vacum inside ( including with HID inside (with exeption of HD bulb itself ) works also as heat insulation .

fluorescent tubes IMO are relative cold - you can touch glass surface between working,

actualy there is Fluorescence, photoluminescence in which the emitted photons(visual longer wavelength) are of lower energy than those absorbed (UV short wavelength )


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Jul 18, 2012)

PS: Yes. A blue laser shining onto phosphor can do exciting things. Including blind you and everyone around you if the beam path changes unexpectedly or encounters anything.

Naked blue lasers are VERY BAD for your eyes at 1W power. Even a glitter of the laser hitting that glass tube will blind you if you and everyone around aren't wearing proper tinted safety glasses. I'm not sure how BMW handles physical damage to their enclosed laser units - do the lasers trip off if the beam path changes?

If you go building this, please only experiment around people (And animals) that are okay with being blinded. Acoustic damage is real and immediate with these lasers.


----------



## Kestrel (Jul 18, 2012)

lucca brassi, the images in your first post are hotlinked images from other websites, please rehost them on a photosharing website and replace these.

Thanks & best regards,


----------



## jspeybro (Jul 18, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> PS: Yes. A blue laser shining onto phosphor can do exciting things. Including blind you and everyone around you if the beam path changes unexpectedly or encounters anything.
> 
> Naked blue lasers are VERY BAD for your eyes at 1W power. Even a glitter of the laser hitting that glass tube will blind you if you and everyone around aren't wearing proper tinted safety glasses. I'm not sure how BMW handles physical damage to their enclosed laser units - do the lasers trip off if the beam path changes?
> 
> If you go building this, please only experiment around people (And animals) that are okay with being blinded. Acoustic damage is real and immediate with these lasers.



I work with 3B lasers on daily basis and read the IEC60825-1 many times so I have a pretty good idea about what to do and what not, so I'll make sure it's safe when I find the materials. I also have the proper safetygoggles if needed.
BMW uses pulsed lasers to be able to make the end product safe. to make it safe you need to take into account the pulse duration, peak power, repetition rate, and some other things.


----------



## lucca brassi (Jul 19, 2012)

sorry I 'll fix pictures ... 

@jspeybro..


> BMW uses *pulsed* lasers to be able to make the end product safe.



that mean that ''excited frequency of the crystal ( joint) is higher than the output frequency .... maybe get some more energy by charging capacitors and in mean time to cool down capsule maybe ?

( because Q switch made it much too expensive and there I don't see really any need for it)


P.S. if I go in this than I'll use much more lower power ... this is more challenge if that is feasible on DIY level because of limited resources ( luminating capsule ) ... it is something different ;-)


----------



## jspeybro (Jul 19, 2012)

Hi Lucca,

the excitation frequency is always higher than the emission frequencies (except in some excotic situations where two-photon absorption occurs), otherwise there would be a violation of the conservation of energy.
So, blue laser has a shorter wavelength and a higher frequency than the emitted light by the phosphorescent material.

i'm not sure what you mean by the capsule. the phosphorescent material? white leds also work continouesly, so cooling doesn't seem to be necessary.
I wouldn't use Q-switched lasers, just diode based lasers that can be digitally modulated (on-off with low duty cycle) (DPSS or even diode lasers).

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion based on my sentence. The pulsing is necessary to allow the retina and eye lens etc cool down/spread the heat to the surrounding tissue between the pulses so the tissue doesn't burn. The pulsing is not necessary for the phosphorescent material to glow.

and yeah, use low power lasers if you manage to get ahold of some material.


----------



## lucca brassi (Jul 22, 2012)

just loking on powder ...some small sample ;-)) 

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/516817830/Fluorescent_Phosphor_Powder.html

sample analysis

http://www.cormusa.org/uploads/CORM_2011_Characterisation_of_fluorescent_materials.pdf


----------



## demonic69 (Jul 22, 2012)

The article said phosphorus, so I'm assuming it's the actual element they're using, bet we can't get that from Alibaba


----------



## jspeybro (Jul 22, 2012)

i think it is just the reporter mixing up things because he doesn't know what he is talking about. same as fluorescence, it is not caused by the element fluor. 

@ lucca, that's 100kg minimum order. do you think it is possible to get samples? I never worked with alibaba before.
btw, the alibaba website mentions the chemical composition. there is no letter P in there, so it is not the element phosphorus.


----------



## lucca brassi (Jul 23, 2012)

I have some deals on alibaba without any problems ( if any ; then because of our Costums service and because of EU/CE markings )

I think samples will be no problem ( if you ask for laboratory purposes almost all producers give and deliver you free samples ) but probably will last at least 1-2 months 


In modern CFL and FL is almost all phosporus reduced and swiched for others elements but there is almost always in form of ((PO4) . Most of them are to determine color and warmth , I don't care ; most important is that excited wavelength in UV spectrum of glowing powder , must be equal to the wavelength of the UV laser ....thats all 

That fact will choose laser and powder it must fit both of them

and that made real problems because blue lasers modules have wavelength between 405-473nm and that glowing powder for CFL arround 253nm .
So low i can't find any laser modules  . So that powder is not good anymore !



> Performance & Purpose :
> Looking like white powder , the material gives off white color when activated by* UV ray at 253.7nm*.
> It is luminous material for manufacturing CFL and T5 straight tube lamps



I hate that


----------



## jspeybro (Jul 23, 2012)

yeah, that's because of some spectral lines of mercury in the fluorescent tubes I think. We need the stuff that they use in Leds... 
blue lasers also come as 488nm, but leds use something typically around 450nm.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Jul 23, 2012)

Cut open a Philips lighting module, the yellow/silver ones. The yellow lobes are blue-LED-activated phosphors.


----------



## lucca brassi (Jul 24, 2012)

> Cut open a Philips lighting module, the yellow/silver ones. The yellow lobes are blue-LED-activated phosphors.



can you get me some link , to be sure we thinking the same , Thx


----------



## jspeybro (Jul 24, 2012)

do you have link? I'm not sure which modules you mean.


----------



## delus (Oct 26, 2013)

*Laser Kills Off the LED?*

Here is an article about a new laser headlight technology being developed by BMW, and Silicon Valley start-up, Soraa.
These kinds of articles usually have wild hyperbole, but this is a very respected publisher in the electronics industry.

Shuji Nakamura invented both the blue laser and the blue LED:
“The laser, we believe, is the next generation of lighting, even for general applications such as homes, businesses, and a variety of displays.

Paul Rudy: "If costs continue to fall, laser lights could make the leap to general use in roughly 10 years."

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/bmw-laser-headlights-slice-through-the-dark

Another quote from the article.
"Experts agree that lasers are much better and more efficient at precisely directing light onto a distant spot."
I never would have guessed.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Oct 27, 2013)

lucca brassi said:


> can you get me some link , to be sure we thinking the same , Thx



 Philips LED

A limit on remote phosphor performance: the high LED output heats the material. Organic binders and low melt plastics fail easily.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz (Oct 29, 2013)

A backwards-firing laser would add one more level of safety in that if something fails, laser light is just shooting into the light instead of out. 

You might sacrifice a white LED, and hope that the LED chip's thermal characteristics allow it to "suck" the heat from the conformal phosphor coating. All that would be needed is to mount LED on a nice heatsink. Even better, you would just use a standard LED reflector after that. 

This design will be hard to mass produce if you have qualms about offering a very dangerous light, which has the potential to emit high powered laser light if damaged a certain way. I have always felt that these risks can be suitably mitigated, and if one is ok with being wasteful, completely eliminated with the use of a filter.

Anyways, with new stuff available to us tinkerers, I'm surprised this hasn't been done yet. I've got a few dedomed XP-Es, one of which I may sacrifice for testing ;-)


----------

