# Malkoff M61W



## mwaldron (Jul 14, 2010)

I just got an email from Malkoff that the M61W is in stock. 

Well, that's not true. I ordered mine and THEN came here to tell everyone else. 19 left guys.



The Web Site said:


> ...The input voltage is 3.4 - 9 volts. Below 3.4 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive. The output is approximately 240 measured out the front lumens. The current draw is only 650ma at 6 volts. The full output runtime is approximately 2 hours on two CR123 primary batteries with a nice long taper as voltage drops. It will easily illuminate objects at 350+ feet and will blind opponents within a 100 foot radius. The LED is a Cree XP-G.


Only 20lm less than the M61 and the same current consumption/run time. 

Can't wait for this baby to show up!


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## edelbrock (Jul 14, 2010)

I got the same and am very tempted because I love the M61. I think I will defer because I am trying to save for a Haiku. :candle:


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## mwaldron (Jul 14, 2010)

edelbrock said:


> I got the same and am very tempted because I love the M61. I think I will defer because I am trying to save for a Haiku. :candle:



I hear ya, I'm not sure I'm going to like the non-optic beam but since it's from Malkoff I'm going to give it a chance. 

The one great thing about Malkoff's though, they have wonderful resale value if you don't like them.


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## edelbrock (Jul 14, 2010)

mwaldron said:


> I hear ya, I'm not sure I'm going to like the non-optic beam but since it's from Malkoff I'm going to give it a chance.
> 
> The one great thing about Malkoff's though, they have wonderful resale value if you don't like them.


I think you will love the M61W. I have a M60W and a M61. They are both great and the M61W should be even better. The spot to flood transition is great on the M61. Wonderfully designed reflector.


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## Barbarian (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up brother. I just ordered one.


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## Sgt. LED (Jul 14, 2010)

Ah such bad timing on these new Malkoff units!

Oh I'll catch them in a month or two I'm sure. oo:


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## ToNIX (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm tempted, a lot... I will wait to see some beamshots compared to the M61 though.


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## ninemm (Jul 14, 2010)

So very tempting. Don't have a Malkoff drop in yet. Maybe I'll sell my V3 triple and get one of these. :devil:


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## scot (Jul 14, 2010)

Just ordered mine, love these Malkoffs.


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## oldways (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks for the advisory. Just ordered mine. 12 left.


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## jonesy (Jul 14, 2010)

I accidentally ordered one as well. It should accidentally make a great addition to my MD2.


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## FrogmanM (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up, just got back from the beach! (glad I checked in) lovecpf
-Mayo


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## BigBluefish (Jul 14, 2010)

3.4 to 9v? So, this will run, if briefly, on a single RC123 or 17670? Can anyone guestimate the runtime on a an RCR?


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## mwaldron (Jul 14, 2010)

BigBluefish said:


> 3.4 to 9v? So, this will run, if briefly, on a single RC123 or 17670? Can anyone guestimate the runtime on a an RCR?



Just search out the forums for the M61 runtime. The M61W draws the same power so will have the same runtime on any given battery type.


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## Reaper (Jul 14, 2010)

I really hate checking into CPF. 4 days ago I read about the M61L coming out, ordered it. 2 days I read about the M61LL, ordered that. Today I see the M61W. Am I going to order that? I really don't know since getting a box from Gene every 2 days is making my wife very, very suspicious.

Off the track though, I am very happy with the M61L and M61LL. These 2 modules are now my EDC's replacing my M30F on 3xAA's.

Going to Gene's site now and try not to drain my card anymore than I already have this week.


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## baterija (Jul 14, 2010)

My first Malkoff is on the way. In fact it's my first XP-G. I've been waiting on neutral (and based on output and description I am guessing it's actually a neutral or "outdoor" emitter not warm.) This is it.


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## Kid9P (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm holding off for the M31W .........PayPal standing by Gene :devil:


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## ecallahan (Jul 14, 2010)

When I read the title of the thread, I thought it was going to be a thread asking when/if Gene would think of making the M61W. I didn't know he was even working on these! Just snagged one, thanks for the heads up!


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## mwaldron (Jul 14, 2010)

ecallahan said:


> When I read the title of the thread, I thought it was going to be a thread asking when/if Gene would think of making the M61W. I didn't know he was even working on these! Just snagged one, thanks for the heads up!



Yeah, sorry about that. I realized the problem after I posted it but you can't edit topics so it was set in stone.


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## pwatcher (Jul 14, 2010)

1 remaining after my visit just now!


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## txgp17 (Jul 14, 2010)

Wow, one left.

You don't know how hard it is to not buy it.


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## mwaldron (Jul 14, 2010)

And they're all sold out...

That was a quick production run!


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## Axion (Jul 14, 2010)

This means we're just that much closer to the M61WLs coming out. I don't mind if they take a while since I already blew my spending money for the month


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## stevie-ca (Jul 15, 2010)

Dang, missed this run.


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## Kestrel (Jul 15, 2010)

Kid9P said:


> I'm holding off for the M31W .........PayPal standing by Gene :devil:


Yep, same here. I've thought about what style of XP-G Malkoff to get for many many many months and this is the one I've decided on. 

M31W :candle:


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## mwaldron (Jul 15, 2010)

My favorite Malkoff to date is the M60WL, it has tremendous runtime and for many tasks it's hard to see the brighness difference between it and my M60W. 

I'm really excited to see how this M61W stacks up.

I also ordered a fitting ring in hopes it will fill the gap and let me put a M60 into my LumensFactory 3x123 Seraph host. I know I should just break down and buy a 9P/D3 but I really like the Seraph styling. The factory led drop in is horrible though.


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## non (Jul 15, 2010)

Ug I missed it. *site stalker mode ON*

PS: Yes, I signed up to be notified as well


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## flatline (Jul 15, 2010)

What's the tint on these?

--flatline


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## mwaldron (Jul 15, 2010)

Malkoff is now calling them "Neutral." 

Based on my previous experience with the M60W and M60WL "Neutral" would have been a much better description for them than "Warm."

My guess is he's just updated his terms to more accurately reflect the product. 

I don't think Gene has ever released his exact bins.


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## stevie-ca (Jul 15, 2010)

Back in stock


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## smokelaw1 (Jul 15, 2010)

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. Can't wait to drop this into the two stage MD2!


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## jonesy (Jul 15, 2010)

Mine shipped already! Thanks to Gene and crew for getting these out fast. :thumbsup:


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## swrdply400mrelay (Jul 15, 2010)




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## ToNIX (Jul 15, 2010)

Back in stock? Errr, I almost bought it, just to see the tint of this baby.

Seriously, I think I'll wait to see some beamshots comparisons with the M61 but it's sooooooooooo hard to wait


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## ypsifly (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah looks like there were about 20 more put up this afternoon. When I started to place my order for one there were 18. After I completed the transaction there were 8.oo:

Now I must find a host. Maybe a black C3 w/ clicky....


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## johnny0000 (Jul 15, 2010)

Keeping my fingers crossed for the M31.


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## non (Jul 15, 2010)

I got my order in, woohoo!


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## Kid9P (Jul 15, 2010)

johnny0000 said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed for the M31.


 

:twothumbs Me Too !! :twothumbs


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## ninemm (Jul 15, 2010)

Looks like 15 now.


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## Max_Power (Jul 16, 2010)

I saw yesterday's in-stock email this evening (DANG!) but there were 12 remaining when i logged in (YAY!) - obviously there has been some restocking.

I bought 3 M61W... and yes, I also bought a couple of M61 as well last week, which were surprisingly neutral for a "cool white" emitter. I still prefer the beam pattern on the M60 series for throw and minimal self-dazzle from nearby walls, but for short to medium range the M61 series is not shabby! I'm looking forward to seeing the neutral tint compared to the 7090 LED in my M60W.

These things are a better investment than the stock market!

Max_Power


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## Noctis (Jul 16, 2010)

Tempted, but I did just spend $300 on knives, $327 on an M2-50 Neutral w/ Turnkey White C2 host, and I gotta save up another $400-ish for a light from milkyspit.

Need more money.


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## Max_Power (Jul 16, 2010)

If Gene builds a few warm white XPG Wildcats I will be in a similar quandary


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## mwaldron (Jul 16, 2010)

It seems mine will arrive on Monday. I'm guessing that the first batch will start showing up tomorrow though!


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## Swedpat (Jul 16, 2010)

*240 measured out the front lumens!!!!* What has happened? 
Practically the same output as the cool version, and with same runtime! 
I had expected ~190 lumens or so. Seems too good to be true! 
I will wait for the M61WL.

Regards, Patric


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## Swedpat (Jul 16, 2010)

I just received a notification email of M61WL beeing in stock! Ordered a M61WL and a M61LL! :thumbsup:

Regards, Patric


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## Barbarian (Jul 16, 2010)

I bought this version, but I really want a M31W.

EDIT: Just bought two M31W's


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## DimeRazorback (Jul 16, 2010)

Max_Power said:


> If Gene builds a few warm white XPG Wildcats I will be in a similar quandary



I hope he doesn't... then I will be on a third Gen 2 Wildcat :laughing: :devil:


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## GunSmoke16610 (Jul 16, 2010)

I will be intrested to see how the XP-G W compairs to the XRE W in-terms of tint. 

In the mean time I am going to enjoy my M61 :thumbsup:


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## chamenos (Jul 17, 2010)

*Malkoff M61WL is out!!*

I was checking the Malkoff website and saw that the M61WL is available. Couldn't believe my eyes, but decided to post here as soon as I placed my order. 

For the convenience of everyone browsing this thread:

*M60WL*
Current draw: 350ma at 6 volts
Output/Runtime (2 x CR123): ~100 lumens/4.5 hours

*M61WL*
Current draw: 300ma at 6 volts
Output/Runtime (2 x CR123): ~125 lumens/5 hours

More lumens for more runtime. Can't beat that! Nineteen in stock before I ordered, 18 left at the time of this post.

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m60wl-warm-tint-low-output-to-fit-a-surefire-flashlight-p-34.html

Good luck! Now comes the wait...


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## ZMZ67 (Jul 17, 2010)




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## ecallahan (Jul 17, 2010)

Everytime I look at this thread I end up with another Malkoff. I have a M61WL coming now. I really like the xp-g's, so if these meet my expectations, I'll be switching all my M60-warms out. We'll see. Thanks for the heads-ups.


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## Barbarian (Jul 17, 2010)

I received mine today and I am very impressed.

Even though I have my M60W at work and can't compare throw, I can tell you from memory that the new M61W has a lot smoother beam.

I did compare the tint with my M30WF and M60W MC-E and the M61W is definitely more neutral than the other two.

This drop-in is a definite keeper.


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## jonesy (Jul 19, 2010)

I will echo what Barbarian just said. Tint on mine is quite nice, quite neutral. I never noticed just how blue my original M60 was compared to this new dropin. It really lights up a wide swath and seems much more general purpose than the older one was. It's quite a bit more usable on low as well (running it in an MD2 with hi/lo ring). 

Seems that this combo is just about perfect for EDC. Any idea what kind of runtime I'd be getting on the low setting with 2 primary batts?


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## Axion (Jul 19, 2010)

According to light-reviews.com the quark 123^2 light run 50 hours on the 22 lumen setting on primaries. The Malkoff low is probably similar to that.


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## ecallahan (Jul 19, 2010)

Definitely a more neutral tint than the M60W. I really like both the M61W and M60W. My M61W seems to throw just as much as my M60W, with much brighter spill, and larger hotspot, due to the reflector/xp-g combo. 

The M60W seems to have just a little more overall spill, in that the very edge of the spill reaches further back than the M61W, I think because of the optic. Hope I'm explaining that correctly. I compared both in 6P's.


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## ToNIX (Jul 19, 2010)

Is it possible to see some beamshots of the M61 vs the M61W? That would be appreciated.


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## mwaldron (Jul 20, 2010)

My M61W arrived today. It's certainly more neutral than my M60W which was already (imo) very neutral. 

That's all I can say since I'm in the office and my only target is brown carpet (which incidentally doesn't look very good under the M61).


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## Max_Power (Jul 20, 2010)

I received 3 M61W modules on Monday and immediately popped them into a couple of SureFire 6P hosts and an MD4 with 2x18650. The tint is not quite as warm as the M30W and M60W predecessors. It is pretty much neutral, with a slight tinge of yellow-green.

The big surprise was that one of the modules has a beam pattern almost the same as the M30/M60 series! 

Looks like I am going to be making some beamshots to back up this claim...

Brightness is somewhat higher than my 170 lumen warm modules, but not huge. Low beam is brighter since the XPG diode has a lower forward voltage drop than the previous model.

These are certainly worth the money.


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## Swedpat (Jul 20, 2010)

Max_Power said:


> I received 3 M61W modules on Monday and immediately popped them into a couple of SureFire 6P hosts and an MD4 with 2x18650. The tint is not quite as warm as the M30W and M60W predecessors. It is pretty much neutral, with a slight tinge of yellow-green.
> 
> The big surprise was that one of the modules has a beam pattern almost the same as the M30/M60 series!
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing your experience!

I am waiting for a M61WL and according to your description of the tint I think I will like it. But I become very surprised about one of your modules and have hard to believe anything other than it's faulty. 
I have two MD2s, one with M60 and the other with M61. I would say there is NO likeness between these beams (except from both are brightest in the center)...
Also, with the precision made reflectors and the centered LEDs it SHOULD be impossible to get that much different beam profiles and especially not similar to M60! 

Regards, Patric


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 20, 2010)

Would love to hear some runtimes on a M61WL running 18650.


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## tygger (Jul 21, 2010)

Any info/ETA on a M61WLL? My G2 is getting depressed.


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## Max_Power (Jul 21, 2010)

Swedpat said:


> Thanks for sharing your experience!
> 
> I am waiting for a M61WL and according to your description of the tint I think I will like it. But I become very surprised about one of your modules and have hard to believe anything other than it's faulty.
> I have two MD2s, one with M60 and the other with M61. I would say there is NO likeness between these beams (except from both are brightest in the center)...
> ...



Beam shaping:
I think the shape of the hotspot and its taper to flood is surprisingly similar to the M60 on all 3 M61 samples, considering how large the emitter surface area is on the XPG. The angular size of the hotspot is about 60% larger than the M30W, but this is balanced by the brightness increase of 50%, so it's almost the same brightness but over a larger area, with more runtime. Win/Win!

At longer range (100+ feet) the difference in throw starts to become noticeable, but the larger area being lit is also quite apparent. I don't use these modules for ranges beyond 20 feet very often. It _is_ fun to light up reflectors and street signs a block away. 

Efficiency:
There's a substantial reduction in heat output. It would be tempting to put the M61 series in a G2 or VME head.

Tint:
One of my M61 samples has a bit more red (slightly pinkish.) That one is my favorite of the 3 M61s. But I still prefer the warm white wildcat and M30W, M60WF for EDC. The richer color rendition is much more pleasing.


So, as is usually the case, the latest and greatest is not beating the older stuff on every front. But it certainly does have noticeable advantages.


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## mwaldron (Jul 21, 2010)

I got to play with the M61W last night and compare it to my M60W and M60WL.

It's exactly what they advertised, a neutral tint M61. It's considerably brighter than my M60W, about the same hotspot (perhaps a slight bit brighter) with a lot more spill. It's also considerably colder. It's a pure white beam without a hint of blue, green, yellow or red. I would say it's exactly as advertised, a true neutral tint.

It's not a replacement for the M60W. There is nothing even remotely warm about it. I took it outside last night and Browns, Reds, and even Greens look pretty much as crappy as they do under any other typical cold led. 

I was surprised to find that the M61W does have an impressive hotspot for being inside a reflector, nearly equal to the M60W optic. The additional brightness is mostly relegated into the spill which most will find an attractive addition. 

I was always skeptical that the M61W wouldn't be able to replace the M60, and indeed I'm glad I do have my M60W and M60WL. I don't need many laser sharp beams but I do use them. 

The M61W is an entirely different product that really shares very little with either the M60 or the W it derives it's name from.

I'll probably hang onto this M61W, but I'm not really sure what use I'll have for it. It's my opinion that it's too bright for use indoors and too cold for use outside.


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## mitro (Jul 21, 2010)

I picked one up and I have to admit, I was expecting it to be warmer. Comparing it to my 4500K MG P-Rocket, the M61 is slightly cooler. I'm not complaining though. Its as close to true neutral as I can imagine and thats what I've been looking for for a while.


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## Brian321 (Jul 21, 2010)

It is hard to tell but to me the M61W has a more defined hotspot and does not seem as floody as the M61.

Brian


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## Kif (Jul 21, 2010)

miss the great deal
Hope it will back to in stock soon


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## flatline (Jul 21, 2010)

Brian321 said:


> It is hard to tell but to me the M61W has a more defined hotspot and does not seem as floody as the M61.
> 
> Brian



That doesn't make sense. The die shape is the same and the reflector is the same. Is it possible that your emitter isn't positioned properly in one of the units?

--flatline


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## Swedpat (Jul 21, 2010)

Max_Power said:


> Beam shaping:
> I think the shape of the hotspot and its taper to flood is surprisingly similar to the M60 on all 3 M61 samples, considering how large the emitter surface area is on the XPG. The angular size of the hotspot is about 60% larger than the M30W, but this is balanced by the brightness increase of 50%, so it's almost the same brightness but over a larger area, with more runtime. Win/Win!
> 
> At longer range (100+ feet) the difference in throw starts to become noticeable, but the larger area being lit is also quite apparent. I don't use these modules for ranges beyond 20 feet very often. It _is_ fun to light up reflectors and street signs a block away.
> ...



When I compare them again I THINK I understand what you mean about _hotspot and its taper to flood_. But outside that area I cannot see much likeness. 

Well, it will be very interesting to see M61LL and M61WL, especially the tint of the warm, which according to some user here isn't at all warm, but rather neutral. You mention G2. I now use M61LL in a yellow G2 and love it! Therefore I am tempted to get G2s for these new M61s as well. Otherwise I will use a black 6P for M61LL and a Gun Metal grey 6P for M61WL. Decisions, decisions...

Regards, Patric


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## Brian321 (Jul 21, 2010)

flatline said:


> That doesn't make sense. The die shape is the same and the reflector is the same. Is it possible that your emitter isn't positioned properly in one of the units?
> 
> --flatline


Possibly but they look fine. It doesnt make sense to me either. 

Brian


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## ZMZ67 (Jul 23, 2010)

I have to agree that the M61W isn't nearly as warm as the M60W or M60WL.I wouldn't say it is cool though,it still appears warm against my Fenix P2D(CREE) and more so next to my NC Extreme GD.The "neutral" description fits it very well.Keep in mind I only have the 3 Malkoffs for comparison but others seem to be getting the same thing.I am keeping the M61W but it won't be the "go to" outdoor light like the M60W and M60WL.Will probably hold off on any more M61Ws unless they go to a warmer led,maybe a true warm XPG.


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## tygger (Jul 23, 2010)

Just ordered an M61WL for my G2. Should be the perfect all arounder. Of course I'll have to snatch up an M61WLL _should_ it become available.


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## damn_hammer (Jul 23, 2010)

Same here, just purchased the M61WL, and intend on dropping it in my all Nitrolon orange G2 for camping. Now just need a black G2 body, and tailcap to go with the M61, and Z44 bezel that I currently have mounted on the orange body.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 23, 2010)

Just got my M61WL, definitely a neutral white, warmer than M61, but cooler than M60W's. Still, it is nice!!! 

I just popped a fresh 18650 AW 2600, gonna let her run till she dies.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 23, 2010)

Just hit the 3.5 hour mark, and the M61WL is running cool as a cucumber.

Heres some cell phone beam shots.

Now keep in mind the M61WL is against 2 full powered drop ins. the M60W and M61.

From L to R, M60W, M61WL, M61






M61WL, M61





M60W, M61WL


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 23, 2010)

Just hit the 6 hour mark, no noticeable dimming. The light isnt even warm, incredible. 

I thought it would have died by now. I'm ready for bed, we'll see who lasts longer. :laughing:


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## tygger (Jul 23, 2010)

Excellent. Thanks PSM. Good to know it will be totally fine in my G2. Interesting how context makes such a difference, slightly warm next to the M61 and slightly cool next to the M60W. True neutral as others have said.


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## Swedpat (Jul 24, 2010)

Thanks for the pictures! It will be very interesting to receive the M61LL and M61WL!


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 24, 2010)

I turned the light off at the 7 hour mark last night. I turned it back on this AM to continue my runtime test... :thumbsup:


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 24, 2010)

OK, right at the 8 hour mark, the M61WL light dropped down to a mode about as bright as low on a Md2. Glad to know this wont leave ya in the dark on a 18650!!!

8 hours full brightness, I am more than satisfied!!! The advertised run time on 2 x 123 is 5 hours. 

Now to see how long this low mode lasts until the 18650 protection kicks in.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 24, 2010)

9 hours and 10 minutes, it went kaput!!

So after it drops from regulation, you have an just over an hour of low mode lighting, enough to get ya home!!!

This was on a AW Black 2600mah 18650.

8 hours of regulation, followed by 70 minutes of low level light, maybe 10 lumens.

The M61WL is one hell of a dropin IMO!!! :rock:


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## qandeel (Jul 24, 2010)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Now to see how long this low mode lasts until the 18650 protection kicks in.


 


PoliceScannerMan said:


> 9 hours and 10 minutes, it went kaput!!


 
This is an interesting test.

From my reading in this forum I always thought that if the protection circuit of a protected Li-Ion battery kicks in then you loose your battery and can't be recharged. Is this true?? 

Many Thanks


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 24, 2010)

Protection circuit is there to protect your LiIon. Good cells such as AW's when put back on the charger for a few minutes, or less, will bounce back up to around 3.6 volts or so, and will charge back up to 4.2 volts or so, and be perfectly fine.

Bill


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## qandeel (Jul 24, 2010)

Bill

Thanks for your reply. 

So this means I can use my AW Li-Ion battery until it shuts down without worrying about losing it?

This really helps


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## Yoda4561 (Jul 24, 2010)

The protection circuit should be thought of as an emergency use only device. They can wear out if tripped too often, so it's usually a better idea to recharge before the battery gets to that point.


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## qandeel (Jul 24, 2010)

This is good information for me. Thank you guys lovecpf




Yoda4561 said:


> The protection circuit should be thought of as an emergency use only device. They can wear out if tripped too often, so it's usually a better idea to recharge before the battery gets to that point.


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## AMD64Blondie (Jul 24, 2010)

Curse you guys... I have a Surefire G2(with a LED drop-in) sitting around doing nothing.(probably needs new batteries too:reminds me why I don't like CR123 batteries..)

A Malkoff M61W would be quite nice. Eeek...!!


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## kyhunter1 (Jul 24, 2010)

The true white neutral tint with no funny shades will definitely be a hit with the M61W series. Maybe Gene should have named them M61N's. My next M61 will be a warm version. I really like the older M60W type drop ins too, especially with the flood optic. I wish Gene would continue to offer them. Anyway, the M61W is nice.


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## ZMZ67 (Jul 25, 2010)

kyhunter1 said:


> The true white neutral tint with no funny shades will definitely be a hit with the M61W series. Maybe Gene should have named them M61N's. My next M61 will be a warm version. I really like the older M60W type drop ins too, especially with the flood optic. I wish Gene would continue to offer them. Anyway, the M61W is nice.


 
Based on my example, I agree M61N would be a good designation instead of the W. +1 on the older optic M60W I really like it as well.


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## Unclemonkey (Jul 25, 2010)

I love that run time. I just picked up a m61, but I am so going to get one of these. Thanks PSM!:twothumbs


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 25, 2010)

Unclemonkey said:


> I love that run time. I just picked up a m61, but I am so going to get one of these. Thanks PSM!:twothumbs



:thumbsup:


Oh, and for the record, I recharged the 18650, it tested 100% on my ZTS tester.


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## Kestrel (Jul 25, 2010)

I am yet again impressed with the actual runtime demonstrated here.

I've been paying attention to Malkoff M-series dropins for a while and it seems to me that he tends to underrate runtimes from his modules - maybe his stated runtimes are the minimum that can be expected? I know that I've seen runtime tests here on CPF that significantly exceed what he states for some of his products in the past.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this trend continues, with his M61 line demonstrating superior runtimes compared to competing modules of similar OTF outputs. :thumbsup:

Edit: Remember this? (OT warning, just wanted to add some supporting evidence)

SF P60LED: 80-65 measured OTF lumens for 2.5 hrs on 2xCR123, declining thereafter.
M60L: 140 (constant) emitter lumens for ~4 hrs IIRC
M60LL: 70 (constant) emitter lumens for up to 18 hrs tested by BigWaffles


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## scot (Jul 25, 2010)

I've done some run time tests on the M61 and M61L in my MD3 and MD4. AW batteries for both, 2600mah in the 18650's. All batteries have had only moderate use, maybe 10-15 cycles. Ran each light until protection circuit kicked in and shut the slight off.

MD3
M61L went 290 minutes
M61 went 165 minutes

MD4
M61L went 495 minutes
M61 went 297 minutes

Interesting. I wonder what the lumens were at the 4, 5, and 6 hour mark on policescannerman's test with a single cell.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 25, 2010)

scot said:


> Interesting. I wonder what the lumens were at the 4, 5, and 6 hour mark on policescannerman's test with a single cell.



Purchase an inexpensive lux meter, and you can plot the runtime/output at different times during the run. Check every 15 minutes or so, and write down the lux numbers using bounce with your lux meter. Been doing that for several years, and it is a real eye opener. Your eyes will not notice the difference in output as the light drops 10,20, 30, 40% or so. You can compare your lights to each other and come up with some comparative output numbers, and quesstimate lumens.

Bill


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 25, 2010)

scot said:


> Interesting. I wonder what the lumens were at the 4, 5, and 6 hour mark on policescannerman's test with a single cell.



Not sure, I noticed no noticeable dimming until it dropped into that 10 lumen moon mode. But over 8 hours it would be hard to notice I guess. 

It was a very useable beam through out, right at the 7 hour mark I took my dogs out before bed, I had no problems shining to the back of my yard, which is about 175-200 feet. 

Also, keep in mind, I shut it off and started the next morning.

8 hours with just over an hour of low mode is what I got though!! :twothumbs


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## scot (Jul 25, 2010)

Pretty amazing. Love my MD2's and 18650's. A lot to be said for running one 18650 and getting long runtime with slowly diminishing output as opposed to no dimming then suddenly light goes off... surprise!!!


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## Cesiumsponge (Jul 26, 2010)

Do these get replenished on the website in small increments very often? Looks like they're sold out, but going through this thread, it looks like "restocked, sold out, restocked, sold out, etc".

Hope there are more coming because I want to do something with this crusty old G2. I've had an M60LF in it for quite some time and gave it away as a gift since I was looking for something brighter but never got around to getting a substitute.


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## non (Jul 26, 2010)

Sign up for the notification and check the site occasionally and you'll get lucky most likely.


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## etc (Jul 26, 2010)

scot said:


> Pretty amazing. Love my MD2's and 18650's. A lot to be said for running one 18650 and getting long runtime with slowly diminishing output as opposed to no dimming then suddenly light goes off... surprise!!!



My favorite module has been Malkoff M60L on 1x18650 - get about 4 hours of 120 lumens. But this one, M61L seems to be better in all ways, except maybe lacking a little throw. 

I almost always use unprotected 18650's, high capacity 2900 mAh Panasonic. Longer runtime than AW's cells with 2600 mAh. The unprotected part shouldn't worry you in single-celled lites as when it drops to about 3V, you can really visually see that you are not getting the full-output. I usually swap them way before they get in the overdischarge danger zone.

Therefore I wonder if it should even better runtime with unprotected 2900 mAh 18650 cells.


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## Cesiumsponge (Jul 26, 2010)

non said:


> Sign up for the notification and check the site occasionally and you'll get lucky most likely.




I ended up emailing them directly and they found one for me


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## ninemm (Jul 26, 2010)

Any idea when the M61WLF will become available?


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 26, 2010)

ninemm said:


> Any idea when the M61WLF will become available?



I think the "F" models were optic based, the 61 series is all reflectored. :shrug:


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## ninemm (Jul 26, 2010)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I think the "F" models were optic based, the 61 series is all reflectored. :shrug:


 
Ahh. Gotcha. That would make sense I think. Since they list the M60WLF still under the M61W section on the website.


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## tygger (Jul 27, 2010)

Just received a M61WL and popped it into a G2. All I have to say is :twothumbs. Excellent all around. Tint is perfectly neutral, not sure I'd even want it any warmer. Now all I need is for AW to start selling IMR 17670's and it'll be perfect. Just ordered another G2 to host a future M61WLL.


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## etc (Jul 27, 2010)

Are the "W" versions just as bright as the non-"W" versions?


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## oldways (Jul 27, 2010)

etc said:


> Are the "W" versions just as bright as the non-"W" versions?




Outside I can't tell any difference in brightness but I can see better with the W.


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## etc (Jul 27, 2010)

Beamshots of W versus non-W? Anybody lucky enough to have both?


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## txgp17 (Jul 27, 2010)

etc said:


> Beamshots of W versus non-W? Anybody lucky enough to have both?


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3463029&postcount=74


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## stuffgeek (Jul 27, 2010)

demand for Malkoff is worst than the damn iphones...
are they really worth it...I plan to upgrade my sf 6P:thinking:


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Jul 27, 2010)

Anyone try this on a weaponlight? I understand it needs a fitting ring to work with shock isolated bezels?

When it comes back in stock I will be ordering one, (Way cheaper than a KM3) and putting a few hundred rounds through my AR with it mounted.


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## Max_Power (Jul 28, 2010)

txgp17 said:


> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3463029&postcount=74



I think you'll like this one better. 







(Original at flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4836813390/)

The wall is light beige, not white, but this photo is very close to what I perceived with my own eyes. My favorites in this group are:

Warm White Wildcat (495 thermally stable lumens, as measured by bigchelis)
M30W #1
M30W #2
M61W #1 is pretty much neutral, followed closely by M61W #2 
The plain vanilla M61 is clearly cool white, but not to excess. It doesn't make flesh look as zombified as some other cool white LEDs (say, Surefire 6P LED).

The M61W does a decent job of illuminating wood grain and human flesh, so you can tell the dead stuff from the live stuff.

The Wildcat and M30W #1 are in my EDC rotation, with hi/low rings in MD3 and MD2 format. I've started carrying M61W #1 in a SureFire 6P as well - you can leave it on full blast for extended periods with barely any heat buildup. And the lower power consumption helps the 17670 last longer.

Best regards,
Max_Power

"You're the worst kind; you're high maintenance but you think you're low maintenance." -- Harry, in 'When Harry Met Sally'


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## etc (Jul 28, 2010)

OK, so M61W is not really "warm" but neutral and not that much different from M61, which is not bad to begin with.


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## mfrey (Jul 28, 2010)

I agree. The beam of the M61 in not nearly as blue in real life as the image above depicts it. To me, when not comparing it side by side with something warmer, it doesn't seem to be cool at all but rather neutral in hue.


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## Max_Power (Jul 28, 2010)

Actually the M61 is noticeably blue, your eyes may not be as sensitive to blue as the camera sensor is for various reasons (maybe you have less blue receptors, or more black and white receptors, or the brightness washes out the color.) I've got 2 of the M61 cool whites that I am considering selling off so that I can replace them with M61W modules. My color vision is excellent, so I really notice the difference. The acid test for "is it blue?" is to illuminate my own arm or hand. If it looks like there are no red blood cells in there, the light is too blue. The M61W makes me look like a Vulcan (yellow-greenish cast but not heavily blue.) Main reasons for using the M61W are huge light output that's not heavily blue, extended runtime, and low waste heat. (And bulletproof construction / warranty.)


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## mfrey (Jul 28, 2010)

Say what you will but the perceived color of the M61, at least the ones I own, is not nearly as blue as that depicted in your photo. Is it more blue than the neutral by relative comparison? Absolutely. Does it appear overtly blue in real life when viewed alone and independent of some other warmer beam to make it appear blue by comparison? Not to me.

Perhaps your ultra-tuned bionic senses are more acute than mine.  YMMV.


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## Max_Power (Jul 29, 2010)

Looks like the camera is exaggerating the coloration just a bit - good for determining color, bad for emulating the human perception. I could try increasing the exposure to make the colors wash out.


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## Cesiumsponge (Jul 30, 2010)

Just received the P61W today. Color is neutral with a hint of a slightly darker yellow center inside the hotspot, like a cadbury egg. Great reflector, right amount of spill light without being overpowering or weak. Reflected spill off nearby walls won't blind you if you're clearing a home. Hot spot is roughly a yard in diameter at 7 yards. I hope to put some hours on it and see if it grows on me even more. Testing in a G2. If it gets too hot, into a 6P it goes.


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## Alberta-Blue (Jul 30, 2010)

Cesiumsponge said:


> Just received the P61W today. Color is neutral with a hint of a slightly darker yellow center inside the hotspot, like a cadbury egg. Great reflector, right amount of spill light without being overpowering or weak. Reflected spill off nearby walls won't blind you if you're clearing a home. Hot spot is roughly a yard in diameter at 7 yards. I hope to put some hours on it and see if it grows on me even more. Testing in a G2. If it gets too hot, into a 6P it goes.


 
If it doesnt grow on ya Ill happily trade ya for am M61L :twothumbs. I would love to get my hands on one for investigative purposed and just a general duty light.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 30, 2010)

Cesiumsponge said:


> Testing in a G2. If it gets too hot, into a 6P it goes.



Gene says 15 minute runs are OK in a G2.


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## Cesiumsponge (Jul 30, 2010)

Did Gene mention what the limiting factor on the G2 is? When I first got it ages ago (stock lamp), it accidentally activated in my coat pocket and I smelled burnt plastic. It ended up bubbling the OEM polycarbonate lens but the body seemed fine. First and last time I made that mistake  I dropped in a UCL glass lens and no more problems.

I added the delrin tailcap shroud, crenellated bezel, a mcclicky, and a pocket clip as well. The Malkoff polishes it off and it completely changed it's personality. Fifteen minutes continuous should be more than sufficient for me since the light isn't taking on a utility role. I am new here and I don't have a vast collection of lights but the neutral output of the M61W is nice nice nice! I'll try to take pictures and color correct this weekend.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jul 30, 2010)

Cesiumsponge said:


> Did Gene mention what the limiting factor on the G2 is?



The heat doesnt transfer to the plastic like the Aluminum bodies do. I had a 7 hour run with my 6P w/ M61WL, I'm tellin ya, it didnt even get warm. The light was sitting on a table, with no fan or anything, it was just barely over room temp.


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## Yoda4561 (Jul 30, 2010)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> The heat doesnt transfer to the plastic like the Aluminum bodies do. I had a 7 hour run with my 6P w/ M61WL, I'm tellin ya, it didnt even get warm. The light was sitting on a table, with no fan or anything, it was just barely over room temp.



This. To clarify further, the G2 is not the part at risk when you combine a full power LED module of any make to it, it's the module itself. The electronics need to be cooled, and aluminum lights/bezels act as a big heatsink.


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## CVClaus (Aug 1, 2010)

I've heard the spot to flood transition is great on the M61, and a wonderfully designed reflector. Seems there was a a parcel on the market around the 14th, any word since?


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## timbo114 (Aug 1, 2010)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> 9 hours and 10 minutes, it went kaput!!
> 
> So after it drops from regulation, you have an just over an hour of low mode lighting, enough to get ya home!!!
> 
> ...



Fantastic!
I just got my M61WL last night ..:devil:


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## Vinniec5 (Aug 1, 2010)

I just bought my first M61 on CPFMP from a fellow member and slipped in my C2-LED. I have a E2DL and G2 w/ KX4 as well as other surefires and I thought the E2DL was wicked bright (it is & throw is great too) but this thing is dangerous bright:devil:. i had a chance to see how bright Sat nite. A cpl A$$hats were parked in an unmarked towtruck across from my house at 2am, totally blacked out but running their Diesel. My town has been hit with a huge rash of Thefts and breakins of homes and cars, so I watched and waited. moron #2 gets out and starts Eyeballin my neighbors New Mercedes and i give him 10 secs as I grab my cell and C2. i decided to light him up and when i did he froze, i think he thought it was a searchlight. It was maybe 75-100 feet from my upstairs window to their front driveway. the hotspot lit the truck and the car like a spotlight, it was muggy and the beam was visible. Bonehead jumped in the truck and they tore off with no lights. i reported the incident to the PD and gave them a good description of the truck because of the M61.

Now to save for the Hellfighter, it seems like the next logical step in Flashlight progression :devil: 

Lumens, alot is good, more is always better


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## Swedpat (Aug 3, 2010)

My M61LL and M61WL arrived last week but I have been away on cycling holiday, and couldn't try them before today.
I compared M61WL to several of my other flashlights. It's warmer than the warmest of all cool white LEDs but seems white compared to Fenix TK20 and Quark neutral CR123. I guess this is close to the perfect neutral light! It provides a bit feeling of bright incan light(though still whiter than MagCharger) but with an artifact free beam. The output is very close to Fenix TK20 at turbomode. This is a winner! 

Regards, Patric


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## ninemm (Aug 3, 2010)

I received my M61WL recently and I love the output and beam. Perfect for close to mid range illumination. It has a hotspot, but transitions into very bright spill. Like others have said it is not warm, but very white neutral. I like it a lot!


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## Swedpat (Aug 3, 2010)

When I this night tried the new M61 dropins more carefully I like them more and more: while M61LL is the good economical choice for a long runtime combined with adequate brightness for allround use, M61WL proves itself as the great neutral light: the warmer tint is just so relaxed and more natural for the eyes and still not that yellowish! 
I feel that M61WL is going to be one of my absolute favorite lights (at the moment placed in a Gun Metal Gray 6P)! Brighter than M61LL but still with 5 hours regulated runtime is good. :thumbsup: 

Regards, Patric


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## LumensMaximus (Aug 5, 2010)

Well, I'm impressed :twothumbs. Just received a new M61W today, my first Malkoff, popped it in my very first C2, very nice tint, great hotspot with some nice flood, nice and bright too, just the way I like them. :naughty:


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## Kif (Aug 7, 2010)

I just received my M61W last week and it really surprised me.
The brightness and the tint almost are as good as the Nailbender SST-50 neurtal.
I think M61W is a good option if you need excellent tint and more runtime :thumbsup:


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## PoliceScannerMan (Aug 7, 2010)

I now have a M61W and a M61WL. The M61W is noticeably brighter than the M61WL. But with the fantastic runtime of the M61WL (8 hours followed by 1 hour of 10 lumens on a 18650 2600), I give it the nod over the M61W. However when you know you wont need all that runtime, why not go with the full blast?  

The tint is perfect on these M61W(L)'s. Just creamy vanilla white. :twothumbs

Gene Malkoff teaming up with Don McLeish, producing beautiful beams. These M61's, Gen 2 WildCats, and now the Hound Dog, they are hard to beat!!!


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## Swedpat (Aug 8, 2010)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> *The tint is perfect on these M61W(L)'s. Just creamy vanilla white*. :twothumbs



That's a very good description. Now I am just waiting for a Wildcat with the same tint! 

Regards, Patric


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## jimmy1970 (Aug 8, 2010)

3 x M61Ws left in stock....:naughty:

Wish I had some cash!!

James....:sigh:


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## timbo114 (Aug 8, 2010)

I have one coming.
If I had more dough - I'd front one for ya James.


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## Max_Power (Aug 9, 2010)

I snagged the last 2.

Hey, there's 20 M31W for sale now!


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## timbo114 (Aug 9, 2010)

Got mine today ...
This thing is so creamy and bright, I gotta wear ..








Many thanks to Gene and Cathy!
Your customer service is superb.


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## wolfy (Aug 9, 2010)

Got my M61W yesterday (my first Malkoff) , and put it in the Surefire LED 6P, and I am so happy I bought it (and finally managed to catch one in stock). 

Fantastic neutral tint, some extra light and the smooth beam... perfect!:twothumbs

Talk about quick delivery and great packing, thanks Gene and Cathy!

Now if I can catch the Maglight dropin while still in stock, for my old 3D...


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## etc (Aug 10, 2010)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> . However when you know you wont need all that runtime, why not go with the full blast?
> :




That's where the HoundDog comes in - with dual modes it solves the problem of M61 vs M61L. In HD, you get both Turbo and a LL mode, ideal in my view.


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## Swedpat (Aug 10, 2010)

etc said:


> That's where the HoundDog comes in - with dual modes it solves the problem of M61 vs M61L. In HD, you get both Turbo and a LL mode, ideal in my view.



Just then lacking a warm(neutral) white version of it I guess. But what I really want is a Wildcat warm...


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## zygibajt (Sep 11, 2010)

Halo,

I just got myself the M61W and would like to share my thoughts about.

This is the latest unit that is suppose to be warmer then the earlier M61W units.

The first thing the output is really impressive, way more light than from M60 series. The hot spot is larger so it is worse thrower than M60 are but it makes it up three times in amount of light and actually I like this size of hotspot.

As to the colour compared it with M60 and M61W is definitaly warm.

Then compared it to my M60W and M30W I'm using and M61W is slightly cooler, just a little bit.

But there is one thing I don't like at all that the output is much toward green colour and it is clearly visible comparing to M60W and M30W. Not noticable that much when using only M61W but quite obvious when comparing. I don't quite like what this green-ish tint makes with some colours.

Now this might be just this unit, as I know all the leds differ, even Malkoffs I have had and have now are always diffrent (my M30W is tiny bit cooler than M60W for example, but this is really tiny). I once had M60 that had this same greenish output and I did not like it also. So I suppose there might be better examples of M61W considering the tint colour and still it is not that obvious when using it. It just shows in comparision that the M30W and M60W show much better the colours of outdoor world.

I also now I can clearly see the advantages of optics, it is really better than typical reflector in some areas or performance. 

In general my feeling is M60W and M30W were better products and with them I almost forget it is LED not a good incan. With M61W although way better performer in some areas not that great in others.

I think I would be happy with the XPG module that would have just the same colour tint as M60W and M30W and used the same optics, that would be ideal light for me and this would give a hard reason for upgrading from M60 without missing anything.

Hope it's not long and boring and sorry for such a low WOW factor


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## etc (Sep 12, 2010)

FWIW, My first M61 was greenish, My second M61 (Not W) is pure white, or off-white that I do like.


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## kyhunter1 (Sep 12, 2010)

Pulled the trigger on my first M61W this weekend. From the reviews so far, I think I will be pleased with it. IMO, it is hard to not be pleased with a Malkoff.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Sep 12, 2010)

kyhunter1 said:


> IMO, it is hard to not be pleased with a Malkoff.



Amen brother. :thumbsup:


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## etc (Sep 12, 2010)

You cannot go wrong with any Malkoff module. But I am debating between M61WL and M61WLL (Or M61LL).


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## kyhunter1 (Sep 12, 2010)

M61WLL? Did'nt know there was one of these. 



etc said:


> You cannot go wrong with any Malkoff module. But I am debating between M61WL and M61WLL (Or M61LL).


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## etc (Sep 13, 2010)

Maybe there will be?


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## Bright_Light (Sep 13, 2010)

etc said:


> Maybe there will be?


 
I hope so. I have a G2L body/head waiting for a M61WLL.


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## etc (Sep 13, 2010)

It should run for what seems like forever on 2x18650.


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## JJay03 (Sep 17, 2010)

Cant wait to get my m61w just ordered it today .


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## JJay03 (Sep 17, 2010)

ninemm said:


> Any idea when the M61WLF will become available?


M60WLF I use that module everyday in a 9p its great for around the house and taking walks at night.


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## Trident1 (Sep 19, 2010)

Add me to the list of Malkoff supporters. Got the MD2 with M61W and I gotta say - quality inside and out. Tint and beam offer a very usable (and for me nice) amount of light close and medium distance. I know there are a few other lights out there doing this good of a job, but mostly for more $$$. Hound Dog next...

Thanks Gene & Cathy for a great product!


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## PoliceScannerMan (Sep 21, 2010)

I have a M61WLL on the way, I will do another runtime test on a 18650 like I did the M61WL. I got 8 hrs on the M61WL, then a hour of 10 lumens.

One thing I find interesting, the Malkoff site says the M61LL is ran at 150mA while the M61WLL is ran at 140mA. Weird, either a typo, or the M61WLL will run a tad longer.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 22, 2010)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> One thing I find interesting, the Malkoff site says the M61LL is ran at 150mA while the M61WLL is ran at 140mA. Weird, either a typo, or the M61WLL will run a tad longer.



They are two different bins. The WLL is a lower flux (lumen) XP-G LED, and probably has a slightly different vf (forward voltage).

Bill


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## JJay03 (Sep 22, 2010)

Got my M61W today and its perfect! Need to try it out at night still but it seems like its going to be great. With a M60WLF and a M61W I almost dont need any other lights.


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## tygger (Sep 22, 2010)

My M61WLL arrived today. :thumbsup: Noticeably warmer than my M61WL. Just about perfect I'd say.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Sep 22, 2010)

tygger said:


> My M61WLL arrived today. :thumbsup: Noticeably warmer than my M61WL. Just about perfect I'd say.



Thats good to hear!! :thumbsup:


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## JJay03 (Sep 22, 2010)

Wow im very impressed with the m61w just what I was hoping for it still has good throw far as my eyes can see anyway and enough flood to it that nothing would sneak up on you from the sides.


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## jtblue (Sep 29, 2010)

I just picked up a M61W today and the build quality is very impressive. The tint is pretty good but I would've preferred a warmer tint, though I did know what I was getting into from the beginning anyway. The most surprising thing about the module was the sheer weight of the thing, it weighs a lot.

I look forward to the next generation of this module, M62W?

The bottom line is that I would buy this again with a minimum of fuss and that I would thoroughly recommend this to a friend or family member.


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## Kestrel (Sep 29, 2010)

I find that the tint (my M31W) is perfect for my tastes. Gene recently posted in another thread that he is changing the tint from 5000K to 4000K for the W's.


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## Max_Power (Sep 29, 2010)

Aww man... if he does that then I will not be able to resist buying another warm wildcat to compare with the 4-emitter one I already have.


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## lightplay22 (Sep 30, 2010)

As a new owner of a M61w I can say that I MUCH prefer its tint to the standard m60's and m61 that I have. Since the light is used mostly outdoors, it makes me wish all of the Malkoff's I have were the w versions. The standard ones are totally alright indoors and very good outdoors, but the m61w is just so much more pleasant to my eyes.


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## ToNIX (Sep 30, 2010)

Finally ordered  I hope to get it soon!


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## ToNIX (Oct 13, 2010)

Got the M61W today! Wow! Just as bright, the color tint is a lot better for my needs (but honestly, not that noticeable at first glance).

I worked hard for you guys, here are some comparison. Fixed shutter/aperture/WB/focus. Some are a bit overexposed but I noticed it after... I took the pics almost in burst more haha!

On the pics, the M61W looks a lot warmer than the M61, but it's really not as yellow/purple as on the pictures. In real life, the tint gives a really good color rendition without sacrificing output.






































EDIT : Pics resized.


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## Kestrel (Oct 13, 2010)

Nice comparison pics, but please resize them. The maximum size for CPF is 800x800.
Edit: Thank you.


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## jimmy1970 (Oct 13, 2010)

Those photos are great! The M61W/M31W is one of the few drop-ins where you get a nice neutral tint without sacrificing too much of the total output in the process.

Well done,

James..... :thumbsup:
www.CoolTorches.com


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## etc (Oct 14, 2010)

Looks interesting. But M61 is clearly brighter.


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## Swedpat (Oct 14, 2010)

etc said:


> Looks interesting. But M61 is clearly brighter.



According to as well the specifications and my own experience they are very similar. A few days ago I received M61W and placed it in my Surefire 9P. Ceiling bounce test shows very similar output, and when I compare it to my MD2/M61 I feel I just don't want the cool option anymore. The warm is just so nice and comfortable, more natural for the eyes. 

Regards, Patric


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## jimmy1970 (Oct 14, 2010)

etc said:


> Looks interesting. But M61 is clearly brighter.


In real life use when comparing an M61 and M61W side by side, apart from the tint, the actual brightness looks almost identical. The 'white' light of the M61 might look brighter in photos but in the real world, they are suprisingly close in total lumens!!

James.....
www.CoolTorches.com


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## liquidinfo (Oct 15, 2010)

Swedpat, whats your take on the runtime of the M61W in the 9P? Looks like it would be at least 3 hrs regulated on primaries, but would like to hear other thoughts on using the dropin with this config.


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## Swedpat (Oct 16, 2010)

liquidinfo said:


> Swedpat, whats your take on the runtime of the M61W in the 9P? Looks like it would be at least 3 hrs regulated on primaries, but would like to hear other thoughts on using the dropin with this config.



I have not measured the runtime with 9P and M61W. But yes, it should be around 3 hours with regulation, and that was also therefore I thought 9P would be a great host for M61W. I think it's now my favorite light with a good combination of runtime and brightness, and beautiful tint! :thumbsup:

Regards, Patric


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## kyhunter1 (Oct 16, 2010)

EDIT: The M61W I had was a freak. I got a new M61W today, and the beam is very nice. No complaints. I plan to keep this one. 

Im generally a fan of neutral/warm tints but the hotspot is holding me back on the M61W. Do all of the M61W drop ins have a darker center donut effect in the hotspot? The cool tint M61's dont seem to have this problem.


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## ToNIX (Oct 16, 2010)

kyhunter1 said:


> Im generally a fan of neutral/warm tints but the hotspot is holding me back on the M61W. Do all of the M61W drop ins have a darker center donut effect in the hotspot? The cool tint M61's dont seem to have this problem.



I haven't notice any dark center with the M61W, thanks to it's amazing OP reflector


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## timbo114 (Oct 16, 2010)

There are no dark spots in the beams of my M61W or M61WL.
Both units are the best beams of any LED source that I own.


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 17, 2010)

kyhunter1 said:


> Im generally a fan of neutral/warm tints but the hotspot is holding me back on the M61W. Do all of the M61W drop ins have a darker center donut effect in the hotspot? The cool tint M61's dont seem to have this problem.



As far as I can recall, that dark spot artifact was limited entirely to the original M60 (both tints) with standard optic. There shouldn't be any sort of artifact like that with the M61's reflector. I'd be interested in seeing pictures if you know of any.


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## Swedpat (Oct 17, 2010)

kyhunter1 said:


> Im generally a fan of neutral/warm tints but the hotspot is holding me back on the M61W. Do all of the M61W drop ins have a darker center donut effect in the hotspot? The cool tint M61's dont seem to have this problem.



I have M31LL, M61LL, M61WL and M61W. All have identical design and none of them have any visible darker center.


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## kyhunter1 (Oct 17, 2010)

I had a catch and release M61W, and it did have a visible dark center. It was not extreme, but very much noticeable on the wall. Outdoors was not noticeable. I guess I will consider picking up another since you all tell me that mine was a fluke.


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## GunnarGG (Oct 21, 2010)

Hi guys!

A couple of days ago I ordered my first Surefire and also a M61w.
I was hoping for the earlier, little cooler version but found out that they only have the warmer 4000K version.
I am trying to relate to my other lights, most neutral white.
I like the TK20, Quark neutral, ET P20C2 NW.
Neutral white is definitly my preference but recently I got a Fenix LD40 and LD25 and they are a little cooler which makes them look brighter/whiter without being cool white, and I like them.
Ordinary cool white is to cool for me and the Quark warm white is to warm in this case.

So, you guys that have the newer, warmer M61W (or M60W if that looks the same):
How does it look compared to other neutral white lights like TK20, EagleTac and Quark? Is it much warmer?

I have seen the beamshots but that's not the same as real life use.
Comparing two tints side by side usually makes the difference in tint more obvious. What does it look like when you just "use the light"?


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## Swedpat (Oct 22, 2010)

Hi Gunnar!

Some week ago I received an M61W which is now placed in my Surefire 9P. I really LOVE it! I also have Fenix TK20 and Quark 123 and AA2 in neutral. When I compare them side by side I find: TK20 is warmest(I actually perceive it as beige), the Quarks only slightly cooler though there is a VERY slight tint difference between the two examples (it's exactly the same head version) Then M61W is slightly cooler than the Quarks (but I want to say whiter or less warm). In my opinion the new M61W is close to the perfect tint. I would express it like warm without beeing beige-brown or yellowish. 
But yes; the perception is relative. Compared to cool tints one may perceive it like some of these tints...

Regards, Patric


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## iacchus (Oct 22, 2010)

Just got notification that the M61W I ordered all of a day and a half ago just arrived in my mailbox. (I'm really not very far from Enterprise, AL)

The rest of the day is going to be very long here at work knowing that my new drop-in sits all lonely-like in my mailbox. Can't wait to check out the tint.

Maybe I should try to kill time picking out a new host for it online......


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## GunnarGG (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks Patric!

So your M61W is the newer 4000K model?
I think the TK20 is around 4300K so the M61W 4000K should look a little warmer unless there is a variation sample to sample.
Or could it be that you have the earlier 5000K model? I guess that would look noticible less warm than TK20.

Regards
Anders


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## Swedpat (Oct 22, 2010)

Anders,

My new M61W is significantly warmer than the M61WL I ordered several months ago, so I am quite sure it's the newer I received. It may be a slight variation sample to sample as you mention. My M61WL is much cooler than TK20 and the neutral Quarks, but still much warmer than the non-warm M61. 

Regards, Patric


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## GunnarGG (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks again Patric,
that sounds reassuring.
I was afraid getting something between my Preon WW and the TK20, that would be too warm.
It is difficult to judge from the beamshots, they often exaggerate both warm and cool tints.


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## blackbalsam (Oct 22, 2010)

I have a m61w in my elzetta and this is a very tough and useful combo for someone looking for an all around great performer with great tint beam and two useful levels in what is IMHO a bombproof setup. I really enjoy using this combo.


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## tandem (Oct 22, 2010)

GunnarGG said:


> It is difficult to judge from the beamshots, they often exaggerate both warm and cool tints.



I must admit I'm thoroughly confused now when anyone talks about their M61 or M61W (and perhaps this carries over to the M31 and other variations too) given that one tint was labelled "W" at one point, and then another tint specified, and then back to the original!

I think you and I are just going to have to wait and see what the tint lottery delivers to our doors. Mine should arrive sometime next week. Beamshots to follow soon thereafter! I have some neutral-coolish lights against which to measure, anything even remotely warmer than them will be a win for me although I have to say it is the beam character which is my primary want in all this.


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## iacchus (Oct 22, 2010)

tandem said:


> I must admit I'm thoroughly confused now when anyone talks about their M61 or M61W (and perhaps this carries over to the M31 and other variations too) given that one tint was labelled "W" at one point, and then another tint specified, and then back to the original!
> 
> I think you and I are just going to have to wait and see what the tint lottery delivers to our doors. Mine should arrive sometime next week. Beamshots to follow soon thereafter! I have some neutral-coolish lights against which to measure, anything even remotely warmer than them will be a win for me although I have to say it is the beam character which is my primary want in all this.



My M61W arrived from Enterprise, AL today. very warm. Very pleasing. Not quite incandescent, but close. 

Now I have a M61 & an M61W, and find myself wishing I had one of the neutral Ws to compare it to.

(I also find myself wishing for a warm wildcat, but that is another matter)


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## iacchus (Oct 24, 2010)

coupla quick shots of the new, warmer M61W compared to the M61

M61:






M61W:


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## ToNIX (Oct 24, 2010)

^^ Those are small pics but the colors seems close to reality! Just a slight warm tint


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## iacchus (Oct 24, 2010)

ToNIX said:


> ^^ Those are small pics but the colors seems close to reality! Just a slight warm tint



Yeah, I guess those did end up small.

Here:

*M61:*





*M61W:*


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## Kestrel (Oct 24, 2010)

Nice tint demonstration. :thumbsup:


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## iacchus (Oct 24, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> Good tint demonstration. :thumbsup:



Thanks! Those were my first ever beamshots 

According to Gene, this is the newer, warmer 4000K M61W. 
That was really the reason I picked one up. I generally carry a Ra high CRI, and on the occasion I want or need more light, it is somewhat jarring to blast out tons of cool white.

The M61W isn't as warm as the Ra 100, but is much closer than the standard 61 I had been using. 
I really like it. Just enough warmer than neutral to bring out the color, but not so warm that I feel like I have rose colored glasses on. It is still plenty bright as well.


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## Henk_Lu (Oct 24, 2010)

These close-up pictures really show the difference in nature. The first one is washed out, in the second you see more colors.

I got an M61W last week, it's really a nice beam with a nice tint, powerfull, I love it. I don't buy cool whites anymore if neutral white is available and my experience is, that if you buy custom items, neutral whites only exist if they are good! Stock lights may disappoint in a neutral tint, as the light looks like "tainted", so that there is no "white" anymore, the whole light is colored. This is a question of the brand and series of the LED first (As for Cree, the XP-G are much nicer than the XP-E or XR-E were IMHO) and of the chosen tint bin of course.

The M61W is my first Malkoff and probably not the last one. I just wonder, why the reflector is that small, why Don didn't use all the surface he could? Normally you don't see wasted space for reflectors, it's just the light that asks for small reflectors obviously. Does someone knoe what is the advantage of the smaller diameter?


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## Sleeper (Oct 24, 2010)

Henk_Lu said:


> ... I just wonder, why the reflector is that small, why Don didn't use all the surface he could? ...


Apparently that's the ideal size for what Gene wants to achieve with that emitter. The rest of the space is best used for heat sinking (one reason Malkoff's are so reliable) and to fit the host. 
The Wildcat reflectors appear to be perhaps a fraction smaller. On Gene's own house brand flashlight bodies (highly recommended) the bezel portion of the heads fully enclose that exposed 
chrome reflector 'shoulder' you see on the naked drop-in. From the quality of the beam patterns it looks as if it's the right reflector/emitter combo. That's typical Gene, other companies 
would be worried about the 'perception' of supplying the emitter this way, but Gene only cares about performance.


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## Gene43 (Oct 24, 2010)

Making the reflector wider would have degraded the beam quality. The limiting factor here was available depth.


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## tandem (Oct 24, 2010)

With so much variability in colour balance found in photos, I never really know what to think about tints. I've seen photos of W versions of Gene's drop-ins that look really quite yellow (and in real life probably are nothing of the sort) and others like these which iaccus presents that look very nice and natural. If the only photo I'd ever seen or see of the M61 and M61W was iaccus last two shots there is no doubt I'd buy nothing but M61W and other MxxW drop ins. Looks fantastic.

I've got a M61? (not completely sure which in the end) due to arrive next week, looking forward to contributing some comparison picks with known cool lights.


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## Sleeper (Oct 24, 2010)

tandem said:


> With so much variability in colour balance found in photos, I never really know what to think about tints...


I hear ya.
From my experience, I have an M61W drop-in in a C3 and a M61W Wildcat, I would say that in reality the M61W falls in between 
the two photos that 'iacchus' posted.
Under warm white florescent it appears clinical white.
Under interior halogen it appears neutral white on the cool side. 
Around MR16 (3500 20-50w) garden lights it appears white on the cool side.
In direct sunlight it appears a faded sherbert orange.
At night (with no other Led emitter to compare it to ) it appears a vivid neutral white on the cool side. 
I'm picky about color temp and all I can say is that I ordered a M61W wildcat based on M61W drop-in. I am very satisfied with both.
I think it's the best of both worlds without sacrificing too many lumens.
If you picked one up and didn't like it - you could sell it for the same price or more within a couple of days. 
But I don't think you will want to.


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## JNewell (Oct 24, 2010)

Wow. I'm not generally a WW fan...but that is pretty dramatic, in a useful way.


iacchus said:


> Yeah, I guess those did end up small. Here:
> ** M61 & M61 beamshots deleted - requoting the pics posted earlier on this page aren't necessary - Kestrel **


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## lightplay22 (Oct 24, 2010)

The more I use the M61w the more i like it! It just puts out a more comfortable on the eyes light that to me seems so superior to the normal Led's. Outdoors on a very dark moonless night, the difference is dramatic.


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## ToNIX (Oct 25, 2010)

Working night shifts for the next 7 days, this will be the first real test of the M61W


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## GunnarGG (Oct 25, 2010)

I asked Oveready to try to find a M61W that is not warmer than the TK20 but rather closer to LD40 or the first 5000K M61W if that's possible and it's not shipped yet.
I'm not in a hurry so maybe he can find something fitting in next batch and it will come then.
I agree that it's confusing and hard to know how the tint will be percieved.

I actually think I would like the little warmer M61W but for this light I'm looking for that little less warm neutral with a really bright white beam but still not cool white.

Well, let's wait and see.

I'm looking forward to hear what you will think about your light Tandem.


(Just for fun, here is a post I did in may with some photos at different WB to show how that changes the look of beamshots.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3384590&postcount=26 )


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## iacchus (Oct 25, 2010)

GunnarGG said:


> (Just for fun, here is a post I did in may with some photos at different WB to show how that changes the look of beamshots.
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3384590&postcount=26 )



That is pretty interesting. Thanks for taking the time to experiment & linking it here!
I doubt I would have seen it otherwise.


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## tomcat017 (Oct 25, 2010)

Forgive me if this is an ignorant question (I'm still learning my way around LEDs :thinking, but...

Anyone know what brightness and tint bins are being used in the M61/M61W? I read that these are XPG emitters, and not XRE emitters -- anywhere I should go to read about what the differences are? Thanks in advance!


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## tandem (Oct 29, 2010)

So Gunnar, the light is in and the verdict is... two thumbs up.

I suspect quite a few Malkoff W lovers would not like this particular unit -- I ended up ordering out of fear the M61 rather than the M61W -- due to the tint, but for my purposes it will work out very well. In short, I've got a cooler rather than warmer white, but not strongly so. On its own, it just looks white. Six inches away from a white wall I can tell the spill tends slightly to the blue side of the spectrum. Back off a foot or two and it becomes difficult to perceive that shift. In real use it just looks like bright white light. Compared to my Fenix LD10 and LD20 it looks whiter/more neutral whereas the LD10/20 tend to white with a slightly greenish tint that again is only easily discernable when compared directly to the malkoff, not normally noticable in practice. I actually don't mind that tint either.

While comparing the Malkoff against all the other lights in the castle I discovered one of my Planet Bike Blaze 2W lights has a substantially warmer output than any of my other LED lights including the other Blaze 2W we have, and I find the warmer output is growing on me some. I wouldn't go nearly that far for the next P60 I need to get, but if I could get it, I'm sure I'd have loved the 4500K neutral that Kestral seems to have. I think the chances are high I would even like the slightly warmer W that is shipping now. No doubt a W will grace our doorstep before too long.

Great beam, no surprise at all there as countless others have already attested to.

The unit I received is one of the hand-built units having the M61 legend inscribed directly on the brass heat sink. Signed by the artist I guess!

Currently I'm running it on constant for a while to see how heat build up is. 10 minutes in I find it less warm than a LD10 run on max for the same time, despite being driven that much harder. That chunk of brass but also the host it is in (a bored out C2) seems to be doing the job well. 

Two thumbs way up. All in all I couldn't be more pleased. Dan and Sarah at Oveready were a pleasure to deal with.


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## kyhunter1 (Oct 29, 2010)

Im now the proud owner of a new M61W with a really nice beam! I plan to keep this one. It is currently snug inside a lettering free Malkoff VME head, (Gene un-intentionally let one slip by), UCL lens, Aleph 2x123 powerpack, and McClicky tailstand switch. A some-what expensive light, but I love it to say the least. It will see extensive use. :naughty:



kyhunter1 said:


> EDIT: The M61W I had was a freak. I got a new M61W today, and the beam is very nice. No complaints. I plan to keep this one.
> 
> Im generally a fan of neutral/warm tints but the hotspot is holding me back on the M61W. Do all of the M61W drop ins have a darker center donut effect in the hotspot? The cool tint M61's dont seem to have this problem.


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## Woods Walker (Apr 25, 2011)

Kestrel said:


> I find that the tint (my M31W) is perfect for my tastes. Gene recently posted in another thread that he is changing the tint from 5000K to 4000K for the W's.


 
This is great news as. Anyone know if dealers like Battery junction etc stock the new warmer M60WLs. Guessing the first cooler batches are long gone. The economy hit me kind hard and just now have a little extra cash to finish my G2Z upgrade. I see another dealer has HCRI ones. I never did fully understand what the HCRI thing is all about. Going to have read up on this.


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## Kestrel (Apr 25, 2011)

Sorry WW, bit of old news by now - we lost the later subsequent posts due to the crash.
The first-run ~5000K 'W's are long gone, all W's have been ~4000K's for quite some time now.


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## Gene43 (Apr 25, 2011)

The W's have recently been upgraded to 3700K 80CRI.


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## RedLED (Apr 26, 2011)

kyhunter1 said:


> Im now the proud owner of a new M61W with a really nice beam! I plan to keep this one. It is currently snug inside a lettering free Malkoff VME head, (Gene un-intentionally let one slip by), UCL lens, Aleph 2x123 powerpack, and McClicky tailstand switch. A some-what expensive light, but I love it to say the least. It will see extensive use. :naughty:


 


I have a Ti McClicky, and the Ti VME head combo, with an M31 inside to make one of the best lights in the world. I like the fact three different engineers are involved in the formation of this light!

kyhunter1, your M60F is doing great in a SF 6P host.


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## flatline (Apr 26, 2011)

Gene43 said:


> The W's have recently been upgraded to 3700K 80CRI.


 
That sounds nice.

Out of curiosity, how well do the W's sell compared to the non-W's?

--flatline


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 26, 2011)

flatline said:


> That sounds nice.
> 
> Out of curiosity, how well do the W's sell compared to the non-W's?
> 
> --flatline



Question is off topic to the discussion.

Bill


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## Woods Walker (Apr 26, 2011)

Gene43 said:


> The W's have recently been upgraded to 3700K 80CRI.


 
I understand the 3700K part but a bit unclear as to what 80CRI means. As this is a recent upgrade I guess the ones in stock on your site have this LED. I like my M60LL a bunch and want to get the best M61WL going. Money is tight and saved up a long time for this plus a new knife.


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 26, 2011)

Woods Walker said:


> I understand the 3700K part but a bit unclear as to what 80CRI means.


 

This is the full spectrum of visible light that comes from the sun, a natural light source:








Artificial light sources produce a certain volume of light (lumens), but also a certain breadth (width on the above graph). LEDs tend to have less breadth, reducing the richness of the colors you will see when using them. High CRI is an attempt to mimic the breadth of incans, with percentage values for how close they come.

Complicating things a bit, light sources also have a tint, like the central/dominant color. So a light source centered near yellow/red will exaggerate these colors, as a blue/green source will exaggerate those.

The holy grail is mimicking the sun, with the tint centered on white and a breadth, evenly covering the entire scale.


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## Filip (Apr 27, 2011)

ElectronGuru, you have helped me to understand the tint vs CRI puzzle, finally ;-). Thanks. 
Filip


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## Woods Walker (Apr 27, 2011)

Filip said:


> ElectronGuru, you have helped me to understand the tint vs CRI puzzle, finally ;-). Thanks.
> Filip



+1 Thanks for the info ElectronGuru.


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## Kestrel (Apr 27, 2011)

+2, I'm not ashamed to admit that that's one of the first succinct descriptions I've read that actually makes sense to me.


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## Max_Power (May 15, 2011)

There's also the matter of spikes and dips in the output (power) versus color (wavelength) curve. But I agree, nice job at a simple explanation of CRI and tint.


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