# LED Lenser Revolution



## nzbazza (Jul 26, 2006)

An outdoors magazine I got recently was promoting this headlamp in a product showcase. It has the seemingly unique feature of continuously variable dimming as opposed to discrete lighting levels.

Has anyone used one/brought one? 







Always the innovator LED Lenser have developed this the super low profile head torch with true variable dimming functionality. 

- Lifetime Warranty (Return to manufacturer) 
- The lowprofile head can be tilted from 26 to 85 deg
- Beam visible up to 3,000 yards
- Dimming switch system
- Powered by 1.25 Watt super-bright, energy efficient Power Chip LED lamp 
- Shock proof, water resistant 
- Crystal reflector tube for extra brightness 
- 100 hours of light without a battery change 
- Up to 100,000 hours of service from Light Source 
- Batteries included (3 AAA 1.5V cells) 
- Model number 7455


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## McGizmo (Jul 26, 2006)

Sharp company! Sound and nice design and engineering with a target of mass market appeal. I am not surprised that they have done the obvious. Cool for them!! :thumbsup:


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 27, 2006)

LED Lenser is made by Coast. I've mentioned on CPF before that I don't like Coast, and here are the reasons why:

1. Bad quality.
2. Lies, damn lies, marketing, and Coast marketing.

Allow me, if you will, to dissect their advertising hype point by point.

- Lifetime Warranty (Return to manufacturer)
= You'll probably need it.
- The lowprofile head can be tilted from 26 to 85 deg
= Nothing wrong here, unless they implemented it poorly.
- Beam visible up to 3,000 yards
= 3,000 yards is 9,000 feet. That's nearly two miles. This oddly-worded claim actually means that the emitter can be seen from nearly two miles away (on fresh batteries). This has been a selling point for mediocre LEDs since time immemorial.
- Dimming switch system
= There's promise here if it's current regulated. More likely, though, is a PWM circuit that gives off an annoying flicker at less than full power.
- Powered by 1.25 Watt super-bright, energy efficient Power Chip LED lamp
= An "energy efficient Power Chip LED lamp" is nothing but a Luxeon. It's probably an overdriven 1W Lux, too, since it's "1.25 Watt." Actually, it's probably an overdriven 1W non-Lux, since they don't mention the name "Luxeon."
- Shock proof, water resistant
= Could be. I wonder exactly how resistant it is to water.
- Crystal reflector tube for extra brightness
= Their vaunted "Crystal reflector tube" is, in all probability, an ordinary reflector like you'd find in any Mag, Inova, SL, etc.
- 100 hours of light without a battery change
= This is a classic example of odious LED hype. VERY few lights can honestly claim this, "honestly" meaning without taking advantage of semantics. Sure, there'll be light after 100 hours, but you'd have to be Gollum to see it.
- Up to 100,000 hours of service from Light Source
= Again, their proper noun "Light Source" is probably a non-Lux LED. Also, most manufacturers are changing the traditional 100,000 hours to a more realistic and conservative 10,000.
- Batteries included (3 AAA 1.5V cells)
= Okay. With any luck, they're alks and not those junk "heavy duty" carbon-zinc cells.

Uh oh... I forgot to put on my flame-resistant suit before posting my inflammatory words! 

Of course, I could be stupendously wrong. If this headlamp is proven to be an excellent light, we'll all benefit. However, I somehow doubt it.


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## CroMAGnet (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm not excited about a AAA skullbeam with a separate battery pack.


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## carrot (Jul 27, 2006)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> LED Lenser is made by Coast. I've mentioned on CPF before that I don't like Coast, and here are the reasons why:
> 
> 1. Bad quality.
> 2. Lies, damn lies, marketing, and Coast marketing.
> ...



I think you're a little harsh on Coast. Their marketing is pretty much up to par with all the other crazies like Inova and Mag, both of whom completely overexaggerate their products which aren't so bad in the first place. Coast's designs are pretty neat, and the output is respectable.

I have one or two Coast lights, and the only complaint I have is that they don't use standard batteries in lights that could/should!

And one small niggling bit.


> - Crystal reflector tube for extra brightness


Probably a total internal reflection lens, not a reflector.


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## jar3ds (Jul 27, 2006)

yeah... not too impressed with a 3xAAA non-intergreted headlamp...

no threat to petzl or princeton tec....


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 27, 2006)

Hi carrot,

I've owned two Coast lights and they're both terrible. One was so poorly designed that unscrewing a bezel attachment usually unscrews the bezel, breaking the light. The other must have been accidentally activated on my desk, because it went from bright to dim with very little use.

Their designs don't seem "serious" to me. Maybe it's because I haven't purchased any of their more expensive designs, but the ones I have smack of cost-cutting and just-barely-truths.

If you have some good Coast lights, that's awesome. Of course, I can only truthfully give opinions of lights that I own or have heard a lot about from good sources. (I'm not saying you're not a good source, I'm just saying there aren't enough of you.) If there are satisfied Coast customers, they aren't too vocal.

I totally agree with you on the batteries. My two Coasts use N cells and button cells.

The crystal reflector tube could be a TIR optic. Or not. Since it's a reflector tube as opposed to a refractor tube (or similar), I guessed that it's a reflector.

It's fortunate for you to have good Coast lights. I don't. Of course, the real settlement to this particular headlight discussion would be to have The_LED_Museum or Quickbeam review it. That could save a lot of time - and typing!


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## yellow1 (Jul 27, 2006)

+1 tigerhawk



TigerhawkT3 said:


> LED Lenser is made by Coast. I've mentioned on CPF before that I don't like Coast, and here are the reasons why:
> 
> 1. Bad quality.
> 2. Lies, damn lies, marketing, and Coast marketing.
> .....


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## sunspot (Jul 27, 2006)

I saw the same ad. It looked real nice but I knew it was made by Coast. Nuff said, I turned the page.


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## lhivernant (Jul 27, 2006)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> - Dimming switch system
> = There's promise here if it's current regulated. More likely, though, is a PWM circuit that gives off an annoying flicker at less than full power.




I'm willing to bet there is no flicker. I'm also (not coincidentally) willing to bet that its just a variable resistor in there. I actually played with one for a few minutes at a Mills Fleet Farm. I didn't investigate too closely, but I think I'd rather buy a handful of Riverrock headlamps.

Joel


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## jayflash (Jul 27, 2006)

There is only one design by that company that's got the competition beat, AFAIK. Their VERY slim and short penlight makes a great, unknoticeable, shirt pocket carry. However, it uses two hard to find BR-435 cells and the LED could be brighter. For $10, for those who need a penlight, it's a sucessful execution.


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## Tronic (Jul 28, 2006)

I had 3 Coast light. 

All 3 failed because of a over driven LED!

I had 2 lights with 5mm LED DD with 4xLR44 Button cell. LED current around 150mA with fresh Batteries! 
After 3 set of Batteries the LED burned out.

I had 1 light with 1W Luxeon? DD with 3x AAAA Alkaline.
LED burned out after 5 set of Batteries!

After this I swear myself never ever to buy a Coast/LED Lenser light!

Note: This are only my experience with this company. This was about 2
years ago.


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## infoseeker (Jul 30, 2006)

carrot said:


> I think you're a little harsh on Coast. Their marketing is pretty much up to par with all the other crazies like Inova and Mag, both of whom completely overexaggerate their products which aren't so bad in the first place. Coast's designs are pretty neat, and the output is respectable.
> And one small niggling bit.
> Probably a total internal reflection lens, not a reflector.



SAME HERE  




TigerhawkT3 said:


> LED Lenser is made by Coast. I've mentioned on CPF before that I don't like Coast



And one thing for sure, they are not made by COAST, they are made by ZWEIBRUEDER OPTOELECTRONICS
(coast is only one of their many international distributor)


 infoseeker


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 30, 2006)

jhempelayo said:


> SAME HERE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, jhempelayo, but I just can't look at your avatar without regarding you as biased in favor of Coast (or Zweibrueder Optoelectronics).  :touche:

 real world experience


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## Erasmus (Jul 30, 2006)

jhempelayo said:


> SAME HERE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are not made by Zweibrueder Germany. They are made in China. My opinion : low quality, high prices. Their marketing boys do a great job over here but this ain't no good for the LED flashlight industry.


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## Martin (Jul 30, 2006)

Led Lenser has a fairly bad reputation in Germany (field failures). They appear to put their effort on the appearance of their products only, neglecting the electrical / optical design. 
Their "datasheets" (find them on http://www.zweibrueder.de/), contain virtually no useful information on beam quality and angle, light output, driver concept, LED type. Their runtime figures are obviously unrealistic.
Probably their lights are OK for Germans, who have an unconditional right to return them within 2 weeks when purchased online.


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## Kiessling (Jul 30, 2006)

LED-Lensers are made by the German Zweibrueder enterprise and manufactured in CHina. Various clones do exist .
They do have a fantastic marketing and usually overpriced and quality-lacking lights.
The design is great though.

Coast is just another distributor buying those lights and putting their name on them.

There are a few lights that are not bad though:
- V16 Chipfire
- David (it seems)
- and maybe some more.

The general problems are:
- not waterproof
- bad or no regulation
- no window --> bare exposed optic
- horribly hyped-up marketing

bk


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## Dawg (Jul 30, 2006)

You guys would choke from laughing, if you knew what the "Crystal Reflector" actually is.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 30, 2006)

Dawg said:


> You guys would choke from laughing, if you knew what the "Crystal Reflector" actually is.


 
What, what?? Come on, tell us!:thinking:


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## HiltiHome (Jul 30, 2006)

I own myself a David 19, looks nice, but the threads are rough, performance isnt to bad, but about 30 percent are wasted in the poor switch, which has 0,7 ohms resistance. Led is poorly centered.

My V²-Lithium had poor X1 tint, Led was fairly centered, performance was very good, after i swaped the emitter to better one. Threads are rough, no sealing on the push-button, rough operation.
I was curious how it would perform on r123....very, very bright for 30 sec. than the board vented some smoke....finally i made it direct-drive....

My LL V-Fokus is a good performer with a terrible purple tint, good for nothing. The body is slippery. Also it gets accidental activated, when put in its pouch...

I also dont like that the company makes there customers believe, that there products are made in Germany.

I swear: I never will buy a Lenser again !


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 30, 2006)

So, Dawg - what's the "Crystal reflector tube"? I am very curious now (plus, I could use a good laugh!).


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## Amall (Jul 30, 2006)

Seems to me the photoreceptor would be too finicky. I couldn't seem to find the placement of it from the site. Also, most likely it is an instantaneous adjustment. Instead, the headlamp should take a 5 second or so buffer, average the values, and then determine the light output.

Otherwise, waving a hand in front of it or turning around against a wall may cause the light to become an annoying strobe lightshow more than a tool.

BTW, a crystal reflector tube just means that the reflecting mirror that directs the light from the housing has a crystal coating. It means nothing except maybe a tiny bit more durability than other reflector assemblies.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jul 31, 2006)

Amall said:


> Seems to me the photoreceptor would be too finicky. I couldn't seem to find the placement of it from the site. Also, most likely it is an instantaneous adjustment. Instead, the headlamp should take a 5 second or so buffer, average the values, and then determine the light output.
> 
> Otherwise, waving a hand in front of it or turning around against a wall may cause the light to become an annoying strobe lightshow more than a tool.
> 
> BTW, a crystal reflector tube just means that the reflecting mirror that directs the light from the housing has a crystal coating. It means nothing except maybe a tiny bit more durability than other reflector assemblies.


 
Thanks for the info on the "Crystal reflector tube"! Nice...

I must admit that I'm confused by the rest of your post. :huh2:

I believe that what might be the case is that the light has a lever to precisely control brightness, while you're describing some system that automatically determines light output...

Am I right? :thinking:


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## infoseeker (Aug 6, 2006)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Sorry, jhempelayo, but I just can't look at your avatar without regarding you as biased in favor of Coast (or Zweibrueder Optoelectronics).  :touche:
> real world experience



Sorry too, i have no choice here in my place for what to buy (than LED LENSER)
They have now here is the MAG-LED
but after i read this thread
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/119665
then i think LED LENSER are worth buying than MAG-LED 


Kiessling said:


> There are a few lights that are not bad though:
> - V16 Chipfire
> - David (it seems)
> - and maybe some more.


there is no Nuwai, Fenix, SL, or any good lights that are worth buying
They have here is SureFire, but i saw the cheapest is $120.00 (how can i afford this if im only earning less than $5 a day)
and im not putting a bias on LED LENSER, its just im correcting some of the information

Maybe i will change my AVATAR.

BTW my place is Philippines (maybe you can say im in the *** of the world)

 infoseeker


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## carrot (Aug 6, 2006)

jhempelayo said:


> there is no Nuwai, Fenix, SL, or any good lights that are worth buying


You can buy a Fenix from Fenix-Store.com

Free shipping worldwide, including the Philippines.


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## Martin (Aug 6, 2006)

That $5 / day fact is interesting, jhempelayo.
Does it mean you could go to a workshop in your area and have them make you your own design of a flashlight for $ 2 / hour ? Or have someone manufacture you a PCB and assemble the electronics for next to nothing ?
I can imagine that some folks here at the forum are willing to trade a nice stock light for you turning their AutoCad into machined metal.


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## infoseeker (Aug 6, 2006)

carrot said:


> You can buy a Fenix from Fenix-Store.com
> Free shipping worldwide, including the Philippines.



Thanks for the info, but as usual, there is no free in this world  



Martin said:


> That $5 / day fact is interesting, jhempelayo.
> Does it mean you could go to a workshop in your area and have them make you your own design of a flashlight for $ 2 / hour ? Or have someone manufacture you a PCB and assemble the electronics for next to nothing ?
> I can imagine that some folks here at the forum are willing to trade a nice stock light for you turning their AutoCad into machined metal.



Shipping $5/day... Oh holy Dog  , so if it will arrive after one month,  my whole month salary will go for shipping only.
Yes. i think youre correct, only my problem will be the electronic PCB if im willing to fabricate my own

trading= then i need the shipping again  

:laughing: infoseeker :laughing:


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## Amonra (Aug 6, 2006)

I would not be so harsh on LedLenser lights. they do have their shortcomings and there are many other better lights out there for the same price but are unknown to the non flashaholic. you have to give Zwiebrueder credit for having great looking lights and for their marketing. they have been able to make their name very well known and very widespread at least in europe.
I think other manufacturers should learn a thing or two about marketing from Zwiebrueder.


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## HiltiHome (Aug 6, 2006)

Zweibrueder should learn from other manufactures about making lights...


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## infoseeker (Aug 7, 2006)

Amonra said:


> I would not be so harsh on LedLenser lights. they do have their shortcomings and there are many other better lights out there for the same price but are unknown to the non flashaholic. you have to give Zwiebrueder credit for having great looking lights and for their marketing. they have been able to make their name very well known and very widespread at least in europe.
> I think other manufacturers should learn a thing or two about marketing from Zwiebrueder.


great looking lights and for their marketing= thats the good thing for them

widespread at least in europe= and so far i search they starting to invade the south america, Asia and (Australia=New Zealand)

My opinion= many of us knows that, the Zweibruder have already name in flashlight world and popular other than the other (who are better than ZB)  



HiltiHome said:


> Zweibrueder should learn from other manufactures about making lights...


= Hopefully they are reading the CPF everyday and get more ideas here

 infoseeker :laughing:


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## yellow (Aug 7, 2006)

doubt they read here 
... several ppl (including me from the time I joined here) are bashing the company and their lights and no improvements whatsoever 
(last time in the "frogman" question tread)

critics have been mentionned: machining quality and price dont fit, questionable protection from the elements, ...


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## Brighteyez (Aug 7, 2006)

I'm not sure I understand. Is any company supposed to act just because you don't like what their subcontractors manufacture?



yellow said:


> doubt they read here
> ... several ppl (including me from the time I joined here) are bashing the company and their lights and no improvements whatsoever
> (last time in the "frogman" question tread)
> 
> critics have been mentionned: machining quality and price dont fit, questionable protection from the elements, ...


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## TigerhawkT3 (Aug 7, 2006)

A company doesn't HAVE to act... a company doesn't NEED to act... Unless, of course, they want to survive. While some companies seem to exist entirely independently of what their customers want, a select few rise above the rest by responding to customers and improving their products. If Coast (LEDLenser, Zweibruder, etc.) frequented CPF and took our suggestions seriously, their products might become more popular and their name more respected.


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## Amonra (Aug 8, 2006)

They seem to survive very well through their marketing alone and since their products sell well to the general public they do not need to change them.
They do have a place where you could place your suggestions here: http://www.zweibrueder.com/english/contact/suggestions/index.html
And also a place where you could post ideas for new products here: http://www.zweibrueder.com/english/contact/proposalsfornewproducts/index.html

instead of bashing them in these forums which they clearly do not frequent you should post some constructive ideas/suggestions on their website through the links above.
If enough of us post there they might be inclined to actually put them into practice.


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## Brighteyez (Aug 8, 2006)

That's funny! :lolsign: I see how the bane of CPF has all but ruined Mag Instruments too. 



TigerhawkT3 said:


> If Coast (LEDLenser, Zweibruder, etc.) frequented CPF and took our suggestions seriously, their products might become more popular and their name more respected.


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## zpaulg (Aug 12, 2006)

Cheers Sigman, 'nuff said!!!
No Lensers for me........


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## Albinoni (Dec 21, 2007)

Erasmus said:


> They are not made by Zweibrueder Germany. They are made in China. My opinion : low quality, high prices. Their marketing boys do a great job over here but this ain't no good for the LED flashlight industry.



The company that owns Led Lenser is Zweibrueder Optoelectronics and on the box of my Led Lenser is also written that, but obviously Zweibrueder must also have a factory in China that produces their torches because of cheaper labour cost. You see today China can produce a high quality item for a fraction of a cost.

And while on the subject of being made in China:

1. Aren't some of your Buick made in China
2. I'm 100% sure BMW, Merc and Audi have a factory in China?
3. Also VW
4. How bout Sony, Philips, Pioneer, Mark Levisnon, Marantz and many more
5. Also Chrysler

And can I say many more foreign companies.


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## hopkins (Dec 22, 2007)

this headlamp has a rear mounted battery pack with a thick protruding 
lever for adjusting the brightness. 
Think this could be a plus as we all have experienced fingers blocking
the headlamp beam as our gloved hands pushes the button to change 
light levels. Rear adjustments would solve that little problem.


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## infoseeker (Dec 22, 2007)

so many rumors i heared recently....

4 or 5 years ago--- LED LENSER/Zweibrueder want to sell their company to MagLite, but mag turn it down ( i dont know if its true)







then next year SHOT SHOW in USA-- many products from LED LENSER will come out-- 
most of them in CREE LED bulb
because of its big success on HF7438 :nana: most of the new products have this function-- even in a headlamp 





and there is big possible even the rivals company (fenix, nuwai, surefire etc..) will show their latest technology on flashlight industry
so if you have time or near in this SHOT SHOW- maybe try to drop there and give us feedback here

and because of big failure :candle: from other products (almost 40% of their product range will no longer available by next year in their factory)


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## electrothump (Dec 24, 2007)

Once again I find myself defending the ledlensers. I've yet to have a problem with them. And, I use the heck out of my lights. I'm a firm believer in buying things to use, not to collect. However, as new things come out, and I buy them, then decide if I want to backburner the lights I've been using, or now use the new one. So, I have ended up with quite a collection, ,, ,of used lights. My girlfriend gets a kick out of ribbing me for buying so many different ones. I try to buy a light for a particular need. Then, I buy some just cause they look cool. Ha! I think all the headlight manufacturers should take note of the use of a rheostat on the revolution LL7468. It bothers me to no end to have to toggle thru all the different crap modes on a light with one button, or thru a series of off, and on twists. I first checked out the revolution at Frys in Texas. I've since ordered one, and I think it's a great light. The forums here said they were bunk. Guess what??? I've had no trouble with any part of that light either. Who'd thunk? However, I do with they would get with the program, and use AAs, instead of the AAAs. The run time would be way better, and the weight difference shouldn't be that noticeable. For whatever reason, it appears that many of the people on these forums simply have an axe to grind with coast. Dunno! I've gotta run. I hope all of you have a really nice Christmas. 

Keepagrinnen,
Electrothump


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## yellow (Dec 24, 2007)

ahhh, how I like to read Fenix bashing from ppl who never had one
(because You did not have one till now, right?)

btw: when I worked for a security enterpise just a bit ago, most of the ppl there used mags and, as small lights, some of the older Lenser models - the ones with no checkering on the body, "larger" head with three leds or that "power" model, and this black rubber cap covering the switch.
Except for price, there was nothing outstanding on the lights.  The ppl ruined the rubber caps on both the Mags and Lensers within a few weeks of usage. And these ppl also _used_ their lights.

I personally am absolutley convinced one does not get an equal good for the money given in case of Lensers.
Still, what I type every time: show me a link to a better _package_ than Fenix offers.
I'm not aware of one and dont think there will be one in the near future


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## Illum (Dec 24, 2007)

lol TigerHawkT3, carrot's "harsh" may be an understatement, but thats to us

hey, I hear alot of good things about them from ppl I know off the forum...including a swiss friend who bought me a 3xAG13 LED lenser with gGerman instructions


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## electrothump (Dec 28, 2007)

yellow said:


> ahhh, how I like to read Fenix bashing from ppl who never had one
> 
> Hmmmm, guess I missed the boat on this one. I didn't notice any fenix bashing. Went thru the thread twice. It looked like led lenser bashing to me.
> 
> ...


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## trucarp (Dec 31, 2007)

I have owned a LED LENSER product for about 2 years (model 7736?) Very small, VERY bright, good runtime. I use it every day. My only complaints are worn-out velcro on the holster and hard to find AAAA batteries. I'm not part of the flashlight cognioscenti however.
Andy


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jan 1, 2008)

trucarp said:


> I have owned a LED LENSER product for about 2 years (model 7736?) Very small, VERY bright, good runtime. I use it every day. My only complaints are worn-out velcro on the holster and hard to find AAAA batteries. I'm not part of the flashlight cognioscenti however.
> Andy


If you want AAAA cells, you can find six of them in a coppertop 9V.


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