# Tired of Fenix Lights Failing



## therock (Jun 20, 2016)

Myself, and two co-workers whom were influenced by me to go with Fenix lights, The PD series, have had them fail form drops of about waist high. A couple of occasions it was the batteries (orbtronic) pcb coming off and one battery split. (we use Xtar WP6 chargers) 

But each of us now have a useless flashlight. We have done all the webbsite trouble shooting. We are industrial maintenance techs so we have the inclination. No body around here will buy another Fenix. 

I don't want to send it in and get another light that will make me fear another small drop failure. These lights have embarrassed me by failing so easily on the folks I recommended them to.
In the trash mine will go. I'll not be recommending lights of any kind to people ever again.

So I go shopping and see several brands of these small straight lights that look just like the PD series with small differences in body machining. So who looks like who? I don't want to buy another Fenix build with a different name or button configuration.

Can I get recommendations on a pocket light in this performance category that is more capable of handling a small drop from say 6 feet?

Armytec is one I am trying now but I don't like the beam or the blinking switch light. The LED has a magnifying looking bubble over it and I suspect that is why. But I had to have a light like this on the job so I am trying it as an "anything but Fenix" mode.

I know lots of you will come to Fenix's aid but I and three others have had bad luck.

Thanks


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## ScottFree (Jun 20, 2016)

I haven't owned many Fenix lights but the one Fenix light that has been rock solid has been the TK15. I own the R5 version and I have dropped it close to two dozen times. Have a couple of small dents on the bezel but that's it. 

FourSevens may be a good choice. Owned a Quark 123 for years and have dropped it from heights ranging from waist height to a three storey building. Still works

HDS lights are at the extreme end in toughness. You can, and I have throw the light repeatedly at walls and no the light will remain operational. They are expensive though and not so easy to get.


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## Brasso (Jun 20, 2016)

So did the light fail or was it those cheapo batteries that failed? Sounds like you just need to buy some decent batteries. 

http://www.oveready.com/battery-/batteries/cat_79.html

Nevertheless,

If you want dead nuts reliable and tough took at the Malkoff mdc series of lights.

https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights


I'm not personally a fan of Fenix. Not because the lights aren't well made, but because I think their UI and mode spacing sucks. Purely a subjective thing.


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## tom- (Jun 20, 2016)

Brasso, you beat me to that question by about a second-op, is your dissatisfaction of the Brand due to the batteries being damaged from the drop or was there a failure of the light in ADDITION to the battery failure due to the flashlight being dropped, and on what type of surface did the lights fall onto?


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## ven (Jun 20, 2016)

Fenix are one of the better brands from China IMO . With a pcb falling off and a battery splitting, sounds like some
drop!!

Either way a couple of choices I will throw into the mix (no specific order),1st off HDS, be it a clicky or rotary UI. Not the brightest , but solid and dependable and enough output for most tasks. 2nd look at malkoff , hosts or flashlights with various drop in options to suit your needs. Both have lifetime warranty , both have a strong following for reliable ,dependable use in all types of situations .

Good luck


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## ven (Jun 20, 2016)

+1 to brasso, missed the post, oveready are another example of reliable and dependable flashlight stuff !


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## CelticCross74 (Jun 20, 2016)

I will throw Eagletac D series into the ring. I have had Fenix lights ever since they first started business. Only one that has ever given me any issues was my first PD35 that I had beaten to death. The lower modes went out. I emailed Fenix about it they messaged me back requesting a serial number which I gave them. Next day they emailed me back with an address in New York state to send the light to for warranty repair. Sent it there thinking the turn around would be a couple months. Had the light back in less than two weeks near totally rebuilt for free it actually works better now than it did new. Sorry to hear about your bad battery. Most PD's that I know of are sprung on both ends of the tube and also have built in over discharge protection ie unprotected flat top cells will work fine. HDS lights are very nice yet very expensive and low output. If all you really need is less than 300 lumens and have the cash for one then go for it.


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## THE_dAY (Jun 20, 2016)

Most any light will fail from continuous drops on concrete. Best to get some thick rubber tubing to cover them and help absorb the impact to the electronics. Similar to putting a case on one's smartphone.


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## peter yetman (Jun 20, 2016)

it's a kind of "Pay cheaply, pay twice" thing. If you buy Malkoff or HDS it will hurt a bit initially, but they will keep on going, and if you do break it, a no question repair will be made.
I understand Armytek now require a videi of the problem to prove the repair is covered by warranty - just more hassle.
P


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## Tac Gunner (Jun 20, 2016)

I can understand feeling burnt by a company and I wouldn't go back either but if I'm understanding correctly the batteries failed and not the light? If this is the case get you some better batteries (maybe imr cells so that there is no protection circuit to break) and see how you like the lights then. I have four Fenixs and they have all been dropped from multiple heights onto multiple surfaces with no issues. I'm not saying they can't break but it seems odd all three have broken. 

As far as other recommendations go you can't get much more of a solid light on a budget than to go with a Solarforce p60 host and a Malkoff drop in.


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## CelticCross74 (Jun 20, 2016)

dealing with Armytek over warranty issues is quite the hassle. I bought 9 of their lights over the last 4 months. Initially the Viking Pro I ordered showed up with its emitter 2mm off center the beam profile was half in focus and half smudged. They wanted pics so I posted them here they replaced the light. OP it sounds like you are saying your Orbtronic came apart from a drop yes? As long as there are springs on both ends of the tube get a Sanyo NCR18650GA flat top unprotected cell if its an 18650 light. That must have been one hell of a drop to bust apart an Orbtronic cell. As for Fenix failing well Ive got a TK32 bolted to my 12 gauge 590A1 and it has yet to even flicker under heavy recoil. YMMV I guess.


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## american (Jun 20, 2016)

I had something similar happen with a e21 2xaa light my mechanic light lasted a few uses. Maglite led lasted a few months. the kicker... Rayovac 2aa led still going 2 years later dropped it from waist 100 times


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## mcnair55 (Jun 20, 2016)

I have a PD32 and PD35 by Fenix....My Thorfire VG15 for a UK £10 knocks spots off the Fenix in build quality alone.


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## american (Jun 20, 2016)

can't go wrong with malkoff stuff I have 1000s of 12g rounds with one mounted


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## VB Dad (Jun 20, 2016)

+1 on Malkoff. Dropped my new MDC 2 days after I bought it onto concrete when exiting van. Works fine and now has been properly christened.


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## HorizontalHunter (Jun 20, 2016)

I have had a total of 6 Fenix lights and been very happy with them. One of the 6 failed after many years of hard use. It was one of their very early ones and I certainly got my money's worth out of that one. I liked that light so much that I mailed it back to China to see if they could fix it on my dime as the warranty was long gone. The light was so old they didn't have the parts available to fix it but they sent me a similar light to replace it at no cost even that they warranty had expired years ago.

Customer service doesn't get any better than that IMO.


FWIW:

My 1st recommendation would be to switch to a good unprotected battery to eliminate that issue.

I would also give some thought to why they are getting dropped. Is it just a case of butterfingers, usually my problem, or was it a situation where they should have been using a headlamp has they really needed their hands free.

Bob


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## Thetasigma (Jun 20, 2016)

Solder joints and impacts don't mix well, so thermal epoxy is one solution for potting the engine. I believe Malkoff makes potted drop-ins if you like the P-60 platform.


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## bdogps (Jun 20, 2016)

Elzetas are meant to be tough lights.


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## redvalkyrie (Jun 20, 2016)

I have the very first light Fenix made. It's beat to hell but still works. I've probably had ten Fenix lights and have never had a single issue despite abusing them. Fenix has the simplest warranty--register the light on their website. If it breaks, they fix it. To fix it they usually send it to the Fenix-Store which is right up the road from me. Great guys. Have you tried called Fenix-Store? They will warranty lights that they didn't sell.

This is all coming from a guy that also loves his Malkoffs. If the zombie apocalypse happens, I'd grab a Malkoff but if it's just nuclear war--the Fenix will work. Maybe you need to look at a Solarforce host with a Malkoff or a Fenix TK16 or 09. I'd still call Fenix-Store first though,
.


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## Dhaval (Jun 21, 2016)

Another long term user of Fenix E, PD, LD, and HL series over the last 6 years and never had a failure yet. Worst was when I dropped the PD35 from 10ft up onto hard rock and it didn't turn on. Found the tail cap retaining ring had loosened, turned it tight and was good to go.


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## Str8stroke (Jun 21, 2016)

Not sure if the battery question has been resolved? Anyways.

Elzetta, Surefire, Malkoff, Solarforce with a Malkoff Drop in, Maglite LED, Rayovac Industrial. 


FWIW: I have beat the heck out of one of my Fenix PD lights, never had a problem with the light.


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## radiopej (Jun 21, 2016)

I've got a bunch of Fenix lights (PD32 UE, PD22, LD12, E99Ti, E01, E05, LD50, LD02, TK22, TK16) and of them all only the TK16 has had issues. The tailcap on that one failed twice.

The rest of them have never failed, and the PD32 UE has fallen out of a 2 story window onto a steel awning and then grass. 

From what you've said, it sounds like your batteries failed. Cheap batteries will do that (my Soshine failed after a 1 metre drop). Pop in some KeepPower batteries if that's all that failed and you should be fine. Or send the lights to me


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## tom- (Jun 21, 2016)

If there is a source of other than Chinese lights-similar in features: output/runtimes/beam patterns-I have yet to see any. For lights I continue to use it is down to two brands, a vintage Surefire L2 and three Fenix, LD60-TK22-TK35UE, (I do have a classic Streamlight SL20-a few Pelicans and of course some mags but they are simply not in the same performance class). Surefire produces a fine product, for what the lights are capable of and in my opinion herein lies the issue with this brand for us-generally very short run times and very very limited in use (spots only)-which is fine as this is the market they choose to serve. Fenix in particular and the other Chinese brands in general have nailed it-pick your beam, runtimes and even tint, the darkness is no longer your enemy.

I was prepared to spend huge dollars for the purchase I just made, I didn't have to as nothing; and I mean nothing was available that even approached the periphery of what Fenix provides. I am NOT an employee of this Company and I do NOT have an interest in Fenix sales, other than getting for us light that meet our common sense needs.

Besides, when all is said and done-isn't everything on the inside of any light from the same geographic location?


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## aginthelaw (Jun 21, 2016)

how about sending it to one of the modders out there for beefier springs, updated led, and maybe a kick *** driver? it's probably a better host than anything else there


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## GarageBoy (Jun 21, 2016)

Sorry to hear that yours failed 
Oddly enough - I gave my friend a foursevens quark XML 2XAA - and THAT died in a drop... - foursevens warranty dept said it wasn't covered, so he just binned it


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## CelticCross74 (Jun 21, 2016)

The PD35 I had that had the lower modes go out on had been dropped kicked thrown and drowned in a sewer during a flash flood(it was on turbo I climbed down and retrieved it)etc etc. it sits on my desk in front of me today repaired for free and working like new. The PD series are as tough as they come potted or not. If you really want to take a step up in all around quality that is nice and small and easy to carry check out any Zebralight they average $85-99 but are more than worth it. They are fully potted have built in protections, ingot like fit and finish thermal regulation the latest emitters etc.


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## etc (Jun 21, 2016)

I got a L2D almost 10 years ago.... the 2xAA model, which at the time, was earth-movingly bright (and still is) 200 lumens maybe and compare it to the competition at the time. 

first one failed, went into some kind of morse code mode...lost high and other modes. 

second one I replaced it with did more or less the same thing. while the first unit lasted months, the second replacement failed almost immediately. I got a replacement and sold it in the box.

I got a bad batch apparently. It seems luck of the draw. 

You got to give them credit for being innovative and competitive, but I have been into Malkoffs for the last 10 years ever since I overcame my fear or Li-Ion, strange and unusual batteries that you need to recharge and cannot buy in places like Chimart. Dumped AA and never looked back.

I wouldn't turn down a free Fenix, one of those with Mega lumens.


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## tom- (Jun 22, 2016)

Are Malkoff and Surefire unable or unwilling to make the lights that others are producing? (and selling by the container full)


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## peter yetman (Jun 22, 2016)

Bearing in mind that Malkoff is pretty much a one man show, he seems to be able to sell everything that he makes. Hence the sold out signs on his site. I think he's cornered his market and produces to supply it. If he can make a living doing something he enjoys, don't knock it. SF are a massive company and there is no camparison between the the two.
P


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## Woods Walker (Jun 22, 2016)

I had two rebranded fenix LODs fail. Just died for no reason. No other problems but don't often (though do) drop my lights. If it has to work it's Malkoff.


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## carl (Jun 22, 2016)

I had an older AAx2 Fenix and the rubber cover over the side button blew outward due to outgassing from the primary batteries. 

Two lessons learned: use only rechargeable batts and don't get a light where the rubber cover over the switch will blow outward due to internal pressure.


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## seery (Jun 22, 2016)

My wife is hard on lights, especially the ones she uses in and around the barn. In the past several years she has killed many lights, most by dropping them.

A couple Surefires, two Malkoffs, an HDS, and a NovaTac. There are probably others, but those are the ones we can remember.

Her Fenix TK35UE took a beating, always came back for more, and never failed her. She now uses an Acebeam K60 and a Fenix HL55 as her all around lights.

Last week I saw her toss the HL55 onto her tack box. It slid across and went off the back, dropping onto concrete from about ~36". I said holy smokes you don't treat that light very nicely.

She replied...

"It's a flashlight...I don't care and I'm sure it doesn't either...unless you're telling me flashlights have feelings!!!".


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## Illum (Jun 22, 2016)

For some reason, and I have never seen it like this before, but checking on Amazon there's a beginning trend of single star reviews on just about all the Fenix E series lights and they all seem to point at the fact that the lights crap out for no reason within very short times. This is alarming given the prevalence of the reviews. Makes me wonder whether or not recent changes in manufacturing or QC is to blame. The other remark is "terrible customer service."


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## hiuintahs (Jun 22, 2016)

Illum said:


> For some reason, and I have never seen it like this before, but checking on Amazon there's a beginning trend of single star reviews on just about all the Fenix E series lights and they all seem to point at the fact that the lights crap out for no reason within very short times. This is alarming given the prevalence of the reviews. Makes me wonder whether or not recent changes in manufacturing or QC is to blame. The other remark is "terrible customer service."


I was curious so I went to Amazon and just checked the E05, E12, E15 and saw good comments and no trend. The other E series lights, I didn't check as I have not had any interest in them. But at least the ones I've liked seem good. Maybe you are referring to the E series with the single electronic switchs.


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## fenix1 (Jun 22, 2016)

Hi therock, I am sorry to hear that.It's possible that the damaged batteries influenced your flashlights.Pls contact our CS, [email protected] ,they will offer you the solution.Thank you!　


therock said:


> Myself, and two co-workers whom were influenced by me to go with Fenix lights, The PD series, have had them fail form drops of about waist high. A couple of occasions it was the batteries (orbtronic) pcb coming off and one battery split. (we use Xtar WP6 chargers)
> 
> But each of us now have a useless flashlight. We have done all the webbsite trouble shooting. We are industrial maintenance techs so we have the inclination. No body around here will buy another Fenix.
> 
> ...


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## vadimax (Jun 22, 2016)

seery said:


> My wife is hard on lights, especially the ones she uses in and around the barn. In the past several years she has killed many lights, most by dropping them.
> 
> A couple Surefires, two Malkoffs, an HDS, and a NovaTac. There are probably others, but those are the ones we can remember.
> 
> ...



Now the main question: why is she trying to hurt your feelings?


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## tom- (Jun 22, 2016)

peter, not comparing the two Companies simply wondering why neither make lights that even come close in performance (referencing beam patterns, output and run timesl leaving out build quality here) to what is available from others.


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## Lumencrazy (Jun 22, 2016)

tom- said:


> peter, not comparing the two Companies simply wondering why neither make lights that even come close in performance (referencing beam patterns, output and run timesl leaving out build quality here) to what is available from others.



The flashaholic is getting what he is asking for: more and more lumens at a discount price.


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## seery (Jun 22, 2016)

vadimax said:


> Now the main question: why is she trying to hurt your feelings?



She uses her lights, doesn't baby them, and could care less if they get beat up. As long as they perform as they should, it's all good.

But I'm missing the point as to why you think she's trying to hurt my feelings???


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## Woods Walker (Jun 22, 2016)

seery said:


> She uses her lights, doesn't baby them, and could care less if they get beat up. As long as they perform as they should, it's all good.
> 
> But I'm missing the point as to why you think she's trying to hurt my feelings???



Flashaholics are known to have emotional connections to some gear items.


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## wjv (Jun 23, 2016)

Have many Fenix lights and never had one fail.

Returned one the day i bought it because of tint issues, but the replacement had a very nice tint.


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## vadimax (Jun 23, 2016)

Woods Walker said:


> Flashaholics are known to have emotional connections to some gear items.



Correct


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jun 23, 2016)

I have plenty of Fenix lights, though none with a secondary side switch (extra point of failure or complexity when dealing with drops or just wearing out over time). The only ones that have failed are EO1s. If you absolutely don't want to give Fenix another chance, I'd suggest Olight or 4sevens lights for the same form factor. If you need anything tougher built, buy a Surefire. Don't write off a company's entire product line because of one or two poorly designed lights, most companies produce a few lemons. Look for the features you need and check the design for points of failure to avoid.


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## seery (Jun 23, 2016)

vadimax said:


> Now the main question: why is she trying to hurt your feelings?





Woods Walker said:


> Flashaholics are known to have emotional connections to some gear items.





vadimax said:


> Correct



:lolsign:


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## eraursls1984 (Jun 23, 2016)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> ... If you absolutely don't want to give Fenix another chance, I'd suggest Olight or 4sevens lights for the same form factor...


If they think Fenix is poor quality then Olight would not be a good option.


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## vadimax (Jun 23, 2016)

eraursls1984 said:


> If they think Fenix is poor quality then Olight would not be a good option.



The OP has not eliminated "crap battery" option. This way we cannot assume Fenix to be poor quality issue  The problem has not been localized yet.

We may try to fuel a Stingray with a donkey pee, but that will not qualify that car as poor quality.


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## CoherentRays (Jun 23, 2016)

carl said:


> I had an older AAx2 Fenix and the rubber cover over the side button blew outward due to outgassing from the primary batteries.
> 
> Two lessons learned: use only rechargeable batts and don't get a light where the rubber cover over the switch will blow outward due to internal pressure.


Completely agree with not using primaries but, as one who has sometimes worried about the possibility of an LiIon battery suddenly doing a runaway and outgassing to create an explosive pressure buildup in the flashlight, the idea of a rubber cover blowing when the pressure gets too high sounds like a safety feature to me. 

Ed


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## tom- (Jun 25, 2016)

if I have a choice, for camping/hiking its Fenix for me-would I purchase a Surefire -when- they decide to make a truly useful light, yes; but for whatever reason that isn't going to happen anytime soon.


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## Marfenix (Jun 25, 2016)

wjv said:


> Have many Fenix lights and never had one fail.
> 
> Returned one the day i bought it because of tint issues, but the replacement had a very nice tint.



I never had to return a Fenix ledlight and I have quite a few old ones P1D CE Black for example and non of them ever quit on me. It seems to me that the longer i have them, the higher the chance that 1 of them will quit but is that a reason to be so disgruntled with 
Fenix? That is how I feel about it.


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## kj2 (Jun 25, 2016)

Had an output issue with the original TK35, but a simple battery carrier swap solved that. My TK75 is quite picky on the batteries that I feed him. Other than that, I can't think of any other issue that I encountered.


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## Vol (Jun 25, 2016)

Buy a push/pull $8 light from Amazon. I have bought 11 gave 8 away never had a problem. Bought 3 Zebras and 2 failed...my 18650 push-pull is serving me well while my zebralight is on its trip back to China.


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## PartyPete (Jun 25, 2016)

I've washed and (briefly) dried my E12. Thankfully the awful knocking told me something was inside the dryer that shouldn't have. Still works. Dropped it a lot too.

My E25 took about a 15 minute dip in a pool one night. Works fine, even after a few drops too.

My E41 has survived torrential rain on hikes, drops in puddles but no hard pavement drops like the others. 

I guess I'm lucky.


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## martinaee (Jun 25, 2016)

seery said:


> My wife is hard on lights, especially the ones she uses in and around the barn. In the past several years she has killed many lights, most by dropping them.
> 
> A couple Surefires, two Malkoffs, an HDS, and a NovaTac. There are probably others, but those are the ones we can remember.
> 
> ...



Geeze.... Sorry you have such an abusive wife


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## Woods Walker (Jun 25, 2016)

Vol said:


> Buy a push/pull $8 light from Amazon. I have bought 11 gave 8 away never had a problem. Bought 3 Zebras and 2 failed...my 18650 push-pull is serving me well while my zebralight is on its trip back to China.



We had a thread on something similar. Are cheap lights really any less reliable and than more expensive ones? All things considered I wonder?


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## CarpentryHero (Jun 25, 2016)

Woods Walker said:


> We had a thread on something similar. Are cheap lights really any less reliable and than more expensive ones? All things considered I wonder?




Cheaper lights are cheaply made, if you can't tell that through ownership or a review thread than maybe you aren't a flashlight enthusiast. 
Theirs nothing wrong with liking budget lights, but don't think for one min that a company that makes a solid product and backs it with a warranty, that a budget light competes quality wise


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## Woods Walker (Jun 26, 2016)

CarpentryHero said:


> Cheaper lights are cheaply made, if you can't tell that through ownership or a review thread than maybe you aren't a flashlight enthusiast.
> Theirs nothing wrong with liking budget lights, but don't think for one min that a company that makes a solid product and backs it with a warranty, that a budget light competes quality wise



No I am a supporter of these forums so I can assure you I am a flashlight enthusiast. Also my posting history which includes both reviews and field use of lights would disagree with your statement as well. With that out of the way here is what I am thinking. 

1. I don't remember ever having a cheap LED light fail during use. I had two more expensive ones just die for no reason. I did have a cheap 99 cent LED light not work out of the box but don't remember any of them failing during use. But that's just me.

2. I purchased a nice Quark Turbo for a friend years ago. He then purchased a 12 pack of cheap shower head lights. After one of those take power out for a week storms I helped him pick up a generator. The entire State was dark and he had one of those shower head lights. The Quark vanished but there appears to be strength in numbers. 12 shower head lights for 9.99 beat the Quark because it was actually there when needed.

All of that said when it has gotta work say a long distance night run I pack a MD2 with M61N or SF C2 with M61LL. Though often the flashlight plays second fiddle to the headlamp.


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## Tac Gunner (Jun 26, 2016)

Well considering the OP hasn't been back, I guess we won't know what the real problem here was, batteries or light? It always aggravates me when someone starts a thread like this and then never reappears. 

As for the budget lights, there seem to be plenty of quality budget brands that work just fine. Convoy, Maxtoch, Shadow, and even some genuine Thorifres get plenty of following and praise over on BLF. I don't personally own any of those brands yet but it's in the works.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 26, 2016)

Tac Gunner said:


> Well considering the OP hasn't been back, I guess we won't know what the real problem here was, batteries or light? It always aggravates me when someone starts a thread like this and then never reappears.
> 
> As for the budget lights, there seem to be plenty of quality budget brands that work just fine. Convoy, Maxtoch, Shadow, and even some genuine Thorifres get plenty of following and praise over on BLF. I don't personally own any of those brands yet but it's in the works.



life is a busy activity so maybe something has delayed the OP. That said often battery issues or easy to correct problems are at fault so till the OP says otherwise that is my belief in this case.


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## TKC (Jun 26, 2016)

*To the OP, I came to the same conclusion about Fenix several years ago. I will NEVER buy another Fenix again!

I agree about the Malkoff. *


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## CarpentryHero (Jun 26, 2016)

Woods Walker said:


> No I am a supporter of these forums so I can assure you I am a flashlight enthusiast. Also my posting history which includes both reviews and field use of lights would disagree with your statement as well. With that out of the way here is what I am thinking.
> 
> 1. I don't remember ever having a cheap LED light fail during use. I had two more expensive ones just die for no reason. I did have a cheap 99 cent LED light not work out of the box but don't remember any of them failing during use. But that's just me.
> 
> ...




Ive had 70 budget lights fail over the years, only three quality lights have failed on me, of the quality lights that have failed one was my fault, but I still got a replacement through warranty. 

Im not going to go through your posting history to see what your opinion is, I will comment on your opinion stated in the thread.


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## Tac Gunner (Jun 26, 2016)

Woods Walker said:


> life is a busy activity so maybe something has delayed the OP. That said often battery issues or easy to correct problems are at fault so till the OP says otherwise that is my belief in this case.


Agreed



TKC said:


> *To the OP, I came to the same conclusion about Fenix several years ago. I will NEVER buy another Fenix again!
> 
> I agree about the Malkoff. *


Curious as to what issues you experienced?


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## elzilcho (Jun 26, 2016)

Other than the difference between tints on the 2 PD35s I have (one is a nice white, the other an unfortunate shade of green) Fenix lights have held up well in EDC use. A few bangs and bruises but they all still power up when the switch is clicked.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 26, 2016)

CarpentryHero said:


> Ive had 70 budget lights fail over the years, only three quality lights have failed on me, of the quality lights that have failed one was my fault, but I still got a replacement through warranty.
> 
> Im not going to go through your posting history to see what your opinion is, I will comment on your opinion stated in the thread.



Personally I would have stopped at 62 budget lights. LOL! It's all good as it's just gear after all though will insist that I am a flashlight enthusiast.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 26, 2016)

Tac Gunner said:


> Agreed
> 
> 
> Curious as to what issues you experienced?



No matter what the issues it's hard to argue with any point of view that is positive about Malkoff.


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## bykfixer (Jun 26, 2016)

Page 3? Really?

Where'd therock go?

Somebody stick a fork in this one until therock returns.


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## vadimax (Jun 26, 2016)

Woods Walker said:


> No matter what the issues it's hard to argue with any point of view that is positive about Malkoff.



Easy: aesthetically they are a disaster  I don't buy ugly lights whatever they are.


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## jonnyfgroove (Jun 26, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Page 3? Really?
> 
> Where'd therock go?
> 
> Somebody stick a fork in this one until therock returns.



+1 to that notion.


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## vadimax (Jun 26, 2016)

I guess the answer is in this thread (the OP is the same person).


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## Tac Gunner (Jun 26, 2016)

vadimax said:


> I guess the answer is in this thread (the OP is the same person).


Well good to see he figured it out, by the sounds of that thread those batteries are pretty trashed.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 27, 2016)

jonnyfgroove said:


> +1 to that notion.



And it would appear we are correct.



therock said:


> The battery came from Orbtronic and is "supposed to be" a Panasonic. These batteries have been giving me issues. In a PD32 if dropped they break connection some how. I was blaming the PD32 but have found it was the batteries.
> So I plan on going with another brand (nitecore) but in the meantime use them until failure but now that's out.


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## RemcoM (Jun 27, 2016)

I still wait, for a Fenix new Superthrower!

This wait takes too long...the TK61, is soo underpowered


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## Vol (Jun 28, 2016)

anybody ever try a maglite? I am an old man stumbled on this forum a year ago looking for the "best" flash light for my dad.
Old you say? My dad is old and tough and meaner than hell. He has never owned a decent flashlight imo.
He laughed at my maglites... way too heavy ... he is a runner >>> world class
He saw the super bright hand held "expensive" light I bought him for father's day last year and seemed very impressed.
Well it failed and the light I bought for myself failed...we both use lights almost everyday and we both can survive without them...
What you carry comes down to what you can trust not what you want!


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## CarpentryHero (Jun 28, 2016)

Woods Walker said:


> Personally I would have stopped at 62 budget lights. LOL! It's all good as it's just gear after all though will insist that I am a flashlight enthusiast.



All those were before I found out about highEnd lights, which was the same year I found CPF


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## tom- (Jun 28, 2016)

With regard to Malkoff or Surefire-what model do they make with an output of about 2500l-nice bright large hotspot with real good spill-say with 4 output levels and real decent runtimes using either 123a or 18650 batteries-seeing some beamshots would really be helpful.


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## TKC (Jun 28, 2016)

*The damn things would just stop working; many of them. And it was NOT a cheap battery issue. I will NEVER buy, nor recommend a Fenix to anyone.*


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## Woods Walker (Jun 28, 2016)

CarpentryHero said:


> All those were before I found out about highEnd lights, which was the same year I found CPF



My current favorite reliable light is the MD2. The simplest multi mode light going. I mean it just uses a potted resistor. With little to go wrong so far it keeps keeps working. I do fear dropping it on my foot as it is so thick. Then there was the high end Armytek Viking with defective switch right out of the box. Had the same issue once with a 99 cent Home Depot light.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 28, 2016)

TKC said:


> *The damn things would just stop working; many of them. And it was NOT a cheap battery issue. I will NEVER buy, nor recommend a Fenix to anyone.*



I love cheap lithium ion batteries. They have 3 times the storage at 1/3rd the weight. Plus so cheap on EBay. What could possibly go wrong!!!! LOL!

Dont buy lithium ion batteries from unknown dealers. Buy from trusted dealers and brands. Just a word to the wise for those still reading this thread.

Had two Fenix lights just die on me. Knew another person with an LOD whose also died for no reason. Maybe it was an issue with LODs. No other problems with the brand for me. Still I hate when a light just dies for no reason.


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## tom- (Jun 28, 2016)

woods, is the MD2 you have the one that is about 350l-two levels- and runs for about 1.5 hrs-cost about $130usd?


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## CelticCross74 (Jun 28, 2016)

OP it is very unfortunate you had a negative experience with a Fenix PD light. Double check to see if there are springs at both ends of the battery tube and run a flat top GA. No protection circuits to break apart etc. I have been a Fenix man since the opened for business. I will once again tell my flash flood PD35 story. Long ago when the amazing PD35 first came out I was one of the first in line. I was amazed at its output and near perfect close range beam profile. Back then it was an expensive light. I was walking down a long street with a couple friends of mine. It was getting pretty dark. All the sudden the sky started to boil with black clouds and an incredibly powerful flash flood poured from the sky. We were far from home and I was the only one with a light. The rain was so hard and heavy that it slipped out of my hand as I tried to get my balance. The light was on turbo and washed down the side of the street into a large sewer where there was a manhole cover. I could see the PD35 thrashing about on turbo. I just paid a lot of money for it and wasnt about to lose it. So I went over and hefted the 55+ pound manhole cover out of the way. Luckily there were steel steps to climb down into the now full "collection point"? I dont know what its called but it was big enough for my 6 foot 2 frame to dive into the thrashing water and fight to grab it. I crawled out of the sewer with the light in my teeth and still cranking away. I still have the light to this day. It was this light that years later the lower modes went out on and I sent into Fenix for free warranty repair. They cleaned it up and rebuilt it. Now works better than new. Cannot remember what cell was in it at that time just know not a drop of water got inside the light.

To my amazement I had the light back in just under 2 weeks. Its scarred up from many adventures but still cranks like new. Yes diving into a sewer is nasty and deadly dangerous during a flash flood but I was not going to give up my expensive new light. Went on to buy 5 more PD series. My least favorite is the 2014 version the tint is just horrible and actual output is a wash. I do ask the question OP about..well..what has happened to Fenix last two model years? The TK75 reboot is nothing to write home about, the FD40 well dont even get me started and now these lights like the PD40 and E25EU(I think that is it)where turbo is only a press hold and when you press and hold for turbo the light shuts off for two seconds? Had I known that I would have never bought it. I get the feeling the good Fenix engineers are being enticed by fat contracts from other makers.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 28, 2016)

tom- said:


> woods, is the MD2 you have the one that is about 350l-two levels- and runs for about 1.5 hrs-cost about $130usd?



Yup However the runtimes are longer than 1.5 hours on high as there is a direct drive taper once the regulation fails. The Hi/low ring low mode which runs forever. I think it was tested up to 150 hours with test concluded but there was still plenty of life left in the 18650.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 28, 2016)

I only owned two Fenix's. The first models that came out early on. Only problem I had was the contact plate in the taii cap coming loose, causing no light, or erratic performance. Easy fix using a needle nose pliers to tighten it back up. Does Fenix still use a contact plate that can be adjusted?

Bill


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## blah9 (Jun 29, 2016)

Yeah they do have that retaining ring on a good amount of lights still.


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## tom- (Jun 29, 2016)

Ok-so Malkoff/Surefire (with the exception of a single model which will set one back over a g note) make products that in no way even approach the periphery of what the Asian makers offer and yet some will comment on the built quality and perceived reliability of one v the others-don't quite get it. As for the 'failure' rates; to be accurate not only must the number of sales be factored in but so must the capabilities-with regard to the latter-it would be similar to comparing the Model T to any late model vehicle after all they both did the same thing correct? Keep in mind this-with simplicity comes reliability, all other factors being equal AND increased performance equates to increased stress-these two facts should not be dismissed or even argued.


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## RemcoM (Jun 29, 2016)

Can somebody tell me, when i can expect a new Fenis Superthrower?

All their other lights, are crappy lights for me...well underpowered, as well as the old outdated TK61.

Their new superthroewr is way overdue.


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## ven (Jun 29, 2016)

Not much chance of that as Fenix don't know Remco! 

Xhp35 HI would have to be in it IMHO


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## ven (Jun 29, 2016)

Only Fenix light to fail of many I have had is the e25. This was DOA and Fenix sent a new head out, in fact they sent the later head out with burst mode. Out of the Chinese brands I remember vinh stating(and still sticks by it) that Fenix is of higher quality inside(out too as decent ano) than other brands. I think one of the most impressive was the tk51, very solid light.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jun 29, 2016)

The only "bulletproof" brands I have personal experience with are Surefire and HDS. You can't go wrong with either one. I've also found the much maligned Maglite brand to be surprisingly resilient if you want something relatively inexpensive and readily available.


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## Blackbeard (Jun 29, 2016)

ive also never had an issue with a fenix failing from a fall. my nitecore ec20, has a blinking issue from a 2 foot drop on wood floor, kinda dissapointed that happened. only failure i've ever had with fenix was due to an eneloop off gassing and puffing out side switch rubber boot, which I could not get back into the head, but I would blame the battery first. Fenix makes good stuff imo


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## tom- (Jun 30, 2016)

I have found reviews-sans any run times- on the Malkoff 'Hound' and 'Wildcat' and can only wonder; are you guys serious? Malkoff I am certain, like Surefire are very very good lights-, _for what they manage to accomplish_ heck they may even be the *best* *in their class *but it certainly seems that my TK22, at less than half the cost provides about four times the light AND my LD60 running on ONE tube/emitter-with 2/3 of the batteries missing, kicks butt big time.

My posts are not intended to slam any maker, I KNOW the great folks at Surefire provide outstanding quality lights and I can attest to the incredible level of customer service long after the sale-many years in my case similarly I am certain that Mr. Malkoff is a first rate fellow and his crew are outstanding in every way BUT to compare these two Companies (with regard to product quality and especially to performance) is flawed-simply due to the performance difference- in every manner shape and form and I hope the implications are unintentional.

Have at me boys, if I am incorrect I will be the first to acknowledge it-after I am proven to be in error.

I neglected to inquire as to the run times compared to output levels, in general- for Malkoff, as the data seems to be difficult to find it would seem reasonable to presume the results are unimpressive.


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## ven (Jun 30, 2016)

Without trying to take off topic and as much as I like Fenix as a brand(far more after vinh has breathed on them), malkoff is a different market. Solid, dependable, reliable, various tint options and UI to suit life/death situations. Being realistic(and I like my high output lights) day to day uses that malkoff aim at ,do not require 6000lm for a few minutes and mainly very cool tints. Fenix offer now 5yr warrenty(pretty good!) malkoff is for life! 

I own far more Fenix than malkoff so I am not biased, just a different tool for a different aplication. 

After all, who would buy a $300+ light(HDS) that puts just 200lm out......have to be crazy hey

Its not just about lumens, it's also the form and strength along with flexibility to custom to ones requirements. Not to mention the best customer service on top!


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## tom- (Jun 30, 2016)

Fair enough and I cede to your experience and judgement however -I- would most certainly would NOT plop down $300 usd for the example you cite when I can obtain so many others of similar or enhanced performance (Pelican, Streamlight) for a small fraction of those dollars. These will last at least as long as I will -and those extra dollars will provide alot of beer/poppers/diesel fuel/petro and or -other- very necessary things.

If a relatively low lumen/time-dual level flashlight is what floats ones boat then go for it-as mentioned one maker offers potted parts, apparently that is very important to a segment of our community. As for this ignorant cretin - potted, schmaatted-I don't need no stinkin potted parts.

I should have included this:

http://www.hackaday.com/2012/06/04/potting-electronics-with-silicone/


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## Woods Walker (Jun 30, 2016)

tom- said:


> I have found reviews-sans any run times- on the Malkoff 'Hound' and 'Wildcat' and can only wonder; are you guys serious? Malkoff I am certain, like Surefire are very very good lights-, _for what they manage to accomplish_ heck they may even be the *best* *in their class *but it certainly seems that my TK22, at less than half the cost provides about four times the light AND my LD60 running on ONE tube/emitter-with 2/3 of the batteries missing, kicks butt big time.
> 
> My posts are not intended to slam any maker, I KNOW the great folks at Surefire provide outstanding quality lights and I can attest to the incredible level of customer service long after the sale-many years in my case similarly I am certain that Mr. Malkoff is a first rate fellow and his crew are outstanding in every way BUT to compare these two Companies (with regard to product quality and especially to performance) is flawed-simply due to the performance difference- in every manner shape and form and I hope the implications are unintentional.
> 
> ...



Yea we are serious.  Malkoff tends to be very very accurate or even underrated with their run times/outputs IMHO. Also they run for longer than listed as there is a long direct drive taper once the regulation fails. I have both Fenix and Malkoff and find the runtimes all things considered comparable. Real runtimes for the real stated amount of time and then even more. They don't need to step down etc etc etc. Then there is the potted electronics etc etc etc which is one reason why we don't see threads like this about Malkoff. Just don't drop one on your foot as the mass is serious. LOL!


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## markr6 (Jun 30, 2016)

ven said:


> I own far more Fenix than malkoff so I am not biased, just a different tool for a different aplication.



I skimmed this thread and was going to post a similar response. It comes down to the right tool for the job.

I love my Malkoff MD2, but not for all applications. I would never take it backpacking, for instance. Instead, something half the weight, half the size with more modes, a clip (included), better throw, etc. is coming instead. A lot of Fenix lights would apply.

I own very few Fenix lights because each model has at least one big problem with me. There always seems to be a deal-breaker, which is unfortunate because I think their quality is way above the rest of your mainstream brands.


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## albino (Jun 30, 2016)

Str8stroke said:


> FWIW: I have beat the heck out of one of my Fenix PD lights, never had a problem with the light.



Got soooo many Fenixes as i'm the only Lighthead ;-) in the Family (i got a set of Lights (over the Decade) for all beloved Family and Friends.

My and surrounding experience of the years: All 4sevens (about 8 lights) did fail/stop (as for today) non of the Fenixes did ever failed (even a "superold" AA-light that did run on 14500 for all that years!)
Had no issues with Nitecores but most old Magligtes (non led) did crack including 2 lights with AA/AAA Batteries that did "bleedout")

at the moment i'm getting for all those people several Jetbeam mini-1's for there keychains (15-19$ / piece). i'm curious how the will last.
never had issues with surefire but sold them all (to me, there just to pricey for the bang).


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## CelticCross74 (Jun 30, 2016)

Fenix seems to be losing a step this and last model years. From lights that shut off for 2 seconds as you press hold for turbo to the just-in my opinion-very poor variable focus design of the FD40. There are other recent models that just make me go "huh"? It is as if other makers lured the Fenix design department off with fat contracts. Malkoff's are just plain bulletproof.


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## tom- (Jun 30, 2016)

What are the two most popular or most well regarded Malkoff lights?


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## VB Dad (Jul 1, 2016)

For me, MD2 and Hound Dog followed closely by MDC.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 1, 2016)

Let's stay on track. There is a current Malkoff thread on going.

Bill.


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## tom- (Jul 1, 2016)

you'd better get over there right away, in post #22 someone mentioned PflexPro


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## billcoe (Jul 1, 2016)

tom- said:


> you'd better get over there right away, in post #22 someone mentioned PflexPro



So is the guy who started this thread bashing Fenix ever going to come back and say that he had a bad battery? I just had the same thing occur with my new Nitecore MH20GT and it looks like I need to trash that company for bad quality. Has a Nitecore is crap thread been started yet? Oh, once I slipped the new Keeppower in there it was bliss again, but I'll admit to being pissed off whne the bad battery was in there and I pressed the button and the light didn't work.


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## markr6 (Jul 1, 2016)

I don't see Pflexpro in #22, or anywhere. Am I overlooking it? I am curious to know the poke since I was always interested in those lights and dropins.


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## bykfixer (Jul 2, 2016)

billcoe said:


> So is the guy who started this thread bashing Fenix ever going to come back and say that he had a bad battery? I just had the same thing occur with my new Nitecore MH20GT and it looks like I need to trash that company for bad quality. Has a Nitecore is crap thread been started yet? Oh, once I slipped the new Keeppower in there it was bliss again, but I'll admit to being pissed off whne the bad battery was in there and I pressed the button and the light didn't work.



Thank you.

Ironically there's a thread bashing Malkoff lights for the same reason this one was started. Mean old Malkoff springs crushed his poor innocent flat tops. 

I know plenty of folks who own Fenix products and have zero qualms. But they use proper batteries. 

It used to be you bought a light, slid in some batteries and turned it on. All was right with the world.

Now you have a million billion choices of something for nothing 'guilt free' lumens for a buck 22 and you get all kinds of moaning and groaning that this light or that one is not working and somehow it is the light at fault. 

Here we have a forum with a mega ton of threads about proper rechargeable batteries just seemingly collecting dust. 

And yet this thread is on page 4 debating the merits (or lack thereof) of Fenix lights.


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## Woods Walker (Jul 2, 2016)

It is easy for people to get stressed out then jump to conclusions as trouble shooting takes time. For example I am trouble shooting my ZL SC5w. As always I suspect the battery but will have to test several batteries for rapid discharge in the light. This could take a month. Easier just to blame the light. LOL. Also lots of people use message boards for pure information only aka once the OP got his answer it was back to normal life till the person needs the community again for their next year conundrum.

to me it is all good.


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## tom- (Jul 2, 2016)

For me its not all good, rather it is very very good. In perhaps a flawed manner I was attempting to illustrate that referencing other brands is a requirement in making evaluations between makers-and I really do understand and appreciate the work that the mods do. I believe that when all is said and done all components are sourced from the same geographic area and a firms claim that their product is made in the US is strongly suspect to me-rather I attribute this claim to manufacturing mischief/trade legislation shenanigans-show me verify proof to the contrary and I will admit I am in error. In fact there is one advertiser here whose claims as to country of origin almost have me convinced I need professional help, I read the site info and cannot for the life of me understand the claim...

Anyway, where I am going with this is; unless lights offer similar performance parameters it is inherently flawed to reach any conclusion about the quality/reliability of one brand over any other-lights of rudimentary performance will offer better reliability than those products that offer much much higher performance:factor in statistical failure rates and attempting to draw any conclusion regarding quality between relatively low unit makers and much larger producing firms make any assessment impossible.


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## therock (Jul 2, 2016)

billcoe said:


> So is the guy who started this thread bashing Fenix ever going to come back and say that he had a bad battery? I just had the same thing occur with my new Nitecore MH20GT and it looks like I need to trash that company for bad quality. Has a Nitecore is crap thread been started yet? Oh, once I slipped the new Keeppower in there it was bliss again, but I'll admit to being pissed off whne the bad battery was in there and I pressed the button and the light didn't work.



Hi, I'm back. Just after the OP I changed from Xfinity to Uverse and changed my email here and all my permissions got turned off. The confirmation email got lost in the middle and I never seen it. I finally found a way back in today. I have been reading though. I just could not do anything other than read. I thought I got banned!

Yes, I have had cases where it was the battery. I have had 4 out of 4 Plantronic's protected Panasonic's fail. One split and the others PCB's separated. I have two co-workers that followed my lead and got PDs' with the same luck. But their bateries were OK.

One of my co-workers is shipping his back for warranty Tuesday and mine is in the box as a ride along with my notes. Its out of warranty so I asked what my options are. I'll keep it in my carpeted bedroom.
All these issues are off and on across two years.
Other than venting my frustrations my OP is for recommendations and information. You guys have carried on here great while I was locked out. Thanks


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## therock (Jul 2, 2016)

Great info and links. I am thinking of not running protected batteries since I have a smart charger and the flashlight I will end up with will have its own protection methods. What do you think?


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## vadimax (Jul 2, 2016)

therock said:


> Great info and links. I am thinking of not running protected batteries since I have a smart charger and the flashlight I will end up with will have its own protection methods. What do you think?



Some lights do not even fit protected batteries inside  So, it is absolutely OK.


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## CelticCross74 (Jul 2, 2016)

they have over discharge protection built into them. Not so sure about over heat protection but so far my Fenix lights I stuck unprotected GA's in love them.


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## therock (Jul 24, 2016)

OK, the follow up. I sent my PD32 in the box with a friends warranty trip back, a PD35 I think. They both came back with a note saying "New Head". No charge.
I'll give them this, mine looked like it was kept on the floorboard of a truck, I'm sure it was out of the warranty period.
Its hard to complain now.
Life is tough sometimes. You try to quit smoking and everyone offers you a cigarette. Go on a diet and free pizza and doughnuts abound everywhere you go. 

I looked at all the suggestions and don't like the form factors along with the price tags. I'm stuck in the middle I guess.
I'll run this one again and if it fails I'll look at the potted brands again. Gotta do something, I use it in my profession. I did purchased some Panasonic NCR18650B 18650's in 3400 mAh unprotected.

Thanks Guys


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## ven (Jul 24, 2016)

If its getting tough/heavy use then really malkoff would be the answer imho, or a cheaper host (think solarforce or even a 6p) and a malkoff drop in, EDCplus triple(potted too) , sportac triple to name a few solid options and not that high in cost. Drop ins from around $30 to $60 ish, hosts from $20-$50 ish....................so all in $100 should more than cover it, for a solid light............just thoughts on another option. 

Good luck and glad sorted, my dealings with fenix have been good, although limited over the years as generally i find a solid brand.


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## etc (Jul 25, 2016)

Bullzeyebill said:


> I only owned two Fenix's. The first models that came out early on. Only problem I had was the contact plate in the taii cap coming loose, causing no light, or erratic performance. Easy fix using a needle nose pliers to tighten it back up. Does Fenix still use a contact plate that can be adjusted?
> 
> Bill




I was advised that when my L2D failed circa 2008... got a replacement which failed also. They lost some modes and would flash in a bizarre morse-code like pattern. The third one I sold NIB. That was the end of it.

Fenix is innovative, bright and at that time, delivered more lumens than anything else as far as I understood. With no viable competition. 

In their defense, they were an impressive lite with 200 +/- lumens from just 2xAA cells. Nobody else came close. Still are.

the competition has caught up now.

Ever since then, no multimode anything. single mode Malkoffs.

I wouldn't trust any Asian lite with my life... it's not just fenix.

for mission critical stuff, only Surefire clones with Malkoff. I do keep a Quark mini in the car as a backup mechanism.


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## Sarratt (Jul 25, 2016)

I will add to the voices of the early Fenix lights .... like ''maraflex'' above me --- I have a L2D CE and the L1 silly cap).. tho I have never abused the light I have no fear when I go to get it that it will light.


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## CelticCross74 (Jul 25, 2016)

there are not many US made lights anymore besides Mag and customs. Yes Surefires are stuffed with just as much overseas parts as any Fenix only the SF bodies are made here. Zebralight has a pleasantly high amount of US sourced parts. As for Fenix gosh darn them! I have always thought that should Fenix open a manufacturing plant in say South Carolina and source everything domestically it would be a mega game changer across the board and the US Fenix made lights would really just cost roughly the same as they do now.

Will once again sum up with my Fenix warranty story. Awhile ago the first of 5 or 6 PD35's I have gotten over the years finally went on the fritz. The lower modes would come on then fizzle out in a second. Keep in mind this light has been saved from a sewer drain during a flash flood, been dropped an easy 20 feet, kicked, covered in construction materials, dropped in the Potomac river etc. It took all that for the lower 3 modes to fail. I emailed Fenix, they emailed me back asking for the serial number which I gave them and the next day they emailed me an address in New York state to send it to for free warranty repair. New York state? Perplexed I sent it in. Expecting not to see it again for a couple of months the light was back in my mailbox in just under two weeks totally rebuilt for free. It actually works better than it did new. I believe they even put in a new emitter. The light was very far out of Fenix warranty period but they did this anyways.

Should Fenix open a US plant the entire industry would go to the bathroom in their pants in panic...


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## Swedpat (Jul 25, 2016)

I have(and had) a lot of Fenix lights(check my light collection). Only one of them, of what I can recall, fails and that's TA30. The light just suddenly shuts off after a while. It's propably something wrong with the revolving dimmer ring. It's a pity because I like it and wish Fenix would offer an updated TA-series with the same design and UI and newer LED.


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## ven (Jul 25, 2016)

Having pretty much all the brands (pretty much=not all), Fenix are a good brand....................need to bare in mind the amount bought/sold and ones with issues. Their customer service has been good for me, other than an e25 DOA(cheap light), never had a fail. They are pretty tough, vinh will even tell you of all the lights he opens up, Fenix are the ones that impress him for the work/quality inside...........that says a lot. There are slowly catching brands and getting close, thrunite and acebeam(talking more expensive models, not the $20 ones) as everything is built to cost.

I have no problems recommending this brand from my experiences over the years and will continue to get future models .

As CC states, most USA made or UK made for that matter has Chinese inside or parts of anyway, not saying its right, but i bet 90% parts are sourced in China unless small outfits ,where they source USA only parts for example. For anything larger scale, to survive in this day and age, companies dont have any choice.............are there any LED's that are actually made in the USA(not a trick question, genuine one) or drivers for example.............honestly dont know.


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## GODOFWAR (Jul 25, 2016)

seery said:


> My wife is hard on lights, especially the ones she uses in and around the barn. In the past several years she has killed many lights, most by dropping them.
> 
> A couple Surefires, two Malkoffs, an HDS, and a NovaTac. There are probably others, but those are the ones we can remember.
> 
> ...



A couple Surefire? why I don't believe that


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 25, 2016)

CelticCross74 said:


> Yes Surefires are stuffed with just as much overseas parts as any Fenix only the SF bodies are made here.



Would be good to see substantiation. Maybe someone has broken a SF LED light down to find the not made in USA parts?

Bill


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## seery (Jul 25, 2016)

CelticCross74 said:


> there are not many US made lights anymore...Yes *Surefires are stuffed with just as much overseas parts as any Fenix* only the SF bodies are made here.



100% true.

Many people still think SF is made in the USA.

And to be honest, I think Fenix and Acebeam make higher quality bodies than Surefire.


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## Warp (Jul 25, 2016)

tom- said:


> Ok-so Malkoff/Surefire (with the exception of a single model which will set one back over a g note) make products that in no way even approach the periphery of what the Asian makers offer and yet some will comment on the built quality and perceived reliability of one v the others-don't quite get it. As for the 'failure' rates; to be accurate not only must the number of sales be factored in but so must the capabilities-with regard to the latter-it would be similar to comparing the Model T to any late model vehicle after all they both did the same thing correct? Keep in mind this-with simplicity comes reliability, all other factors being equal AND increased performance equates to increased stress-these two facts should not be dismissed or even argued.



More than half of the Surefire lights I have had, have failed.

Zero of my Chinese made lights have failed. 

And the Chinese made lights get treated far worse, including several Fenix over a period of years, getting beat up pretty hard int he case of a P1D-CE on my keychain for awhile.

Also, Surefire customer service is slow and not particularly responsive (and is taking two tries to fix a light for me right now).


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## tom- (Jul 26, 2016)

I am still trying to understand the attraction of the brand that would hurt more if one drops it on an appendage.


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## ven (Jul 26, 2016)

How do you mean Tom? 

Way I look at it , people like different brands, be it Fenix , nitecore , surefire......heck ultra fire ! Each to their own, many have had surefire lights for decades and served them in duty, be it their country or weapon mounted in Iraq (hopefully not ultra fire for that)! I am sure they feel passionate about specific brands and we should just accept that . No rights or wrongs , just preferences for different reasons . I have a variety of brands , I like several a lot and can see why people also like them. Now and then some will have bad experiences with a brand, does not mean it's a bad brand . Unless they have had several bad experiences and I am sure then they vote with their wallet!


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## Warp (Jul 26, 2016)

tom- said:


> I am still trying to understand the attraction of the brand that would hurt more if one drops it on an appendage.



You seem to be misrepresenting what they are saying. 

It seems, to me, that you are implying THE attraction is a supposed claim that dropping it on your foot hurts more than other lights, and that is WHY people are attracted to it. That of course is clearly not the case as has been explicitly stated in this thread.


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## BriteLite2 (Jul 26, 2016)

potting the electronics and a simple twist switch are the two most important factors to reliability in an EDC or rough use light. and quality components also. 

I don't count battery damage from a drop as a failure of the light. I don't understand why all lights aren't potted . But I guess as far as the Chinese stuff its like dishwashers. they don't protect the circuit boards from moisture so the damn things crap out after 5 years if your lucky. whereas old dishwasher though inefficient would last 20 years or more


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## markr6 (Jul 26, 2016)

BriteLite2 said:


> But I guess as far as the Chinese stuff its like dishwashers. they don't protect the circuit boards from moisture so the damn things crap out after 5 years if your lucky. whereas old dishwasher though inefficient would last 20 years or more



Things just get cheaper and cheaper. What's going to happen in another 20 years? Seems like things won't last more than a few weeks or they'll break if you look at them wrong. How much more fat can they trim? There has to be an end eventually.


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## CelticCross74 (Jul 26, 2016)

potting a light (Chinese light) drives up cost a couple cents which is why you dont see it. Even Armyteks lights are not really potted according to them its a viscous like substance. If I knew how to home pot my lights I would.


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## etc (Jul 26, 2016)

BriteLite2 said:


> potting the electronics and a simple twist switch are the two most important factors to reliability in an EDC or rough use light. and quality components also.
> 
> I don't count battery damage from a drop as a failure of the light. I don't understand why all lights aren't potted . But I guess as far as the Chinese stuff its like dishwashers. they don't protect the circuit boards from moisture so the damn things crap out after 5 years if your lucky. whereas old dishwasher though inefficient would last 20 years or more



That's a damn good point. 

I've never had a Surefire lite fail because I don't have any -- all "Surefires" I have are actually clones. Aftermarket bodies and aftermarket cells and aftermarket potted, heat-sinked modules. There is nothing to fail. You can probably use one to drive nails if not afraid of cosmetic damage. 

Fully potted, heatsinked LED modules are idiot proof and over-engineered. The only way you can destroy it is by sticking the cell in the wrong way - and not all Malkoffs are vulnerable, some have reverse polarity protection.


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## digital9ja (Oct 18, 2016)

I just returned a tk16 to amazon, I dropped it from less than 30" here in the shop and it never worked right again. That was with the Fenix 18650 battery in it that I got with the bundle. I got home and swapped that out with a protected ultrafire 18650 that was charged to 4.16v. The light came on in turbo mode (1000 lumens) but would not strobe or enter the other 3 modes. So I sent it back and now I am looking for a better light. I got used to the TK16 and liked it, but I'd never trust one. That is ****-poor quality in my book and unacceptable to even a girl scout. This thread has been helpful, I am going to consider the Malkoff hound dog but it is probably to long for what I'm wanting. I liked the TK16 because it offered different output levels, good throw, 1000 lumen turbo mode, strobe and worked with a single 18650. Compact form factor, attractive, came with a few nice accessories and price was great. Unfortunately I absolutely despise cheap quality so I won't give the tK16 another chance to burn me. I get the feeling that there just isn't anything out there that will really satisfy me so I guess I have to resign myself to finding the closest thing possible. After reading this thread I might give Fenix another chance and try a PD35 Tac 1000 lumen but I don't know. It is very hard for me to ever trust Fenix now that I feel like the quality is crap. Maybe a Malkoff Hound Dog, I don't mind the price but it is so ugly, too long and I hate the idea of a rotary head to control brightness. Maybe if I could handle a Malkoff and decide if I could live with that rotary head. I gather from this thread that the rotary style switch is more reliable so I guess that is the trade-off. If anyone has any other suggestions I would love to hear them. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and experience with those of us who are not flashlight enthusiasts.


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## Mike 208 (Oct 19, 2016)

I have seven Fenix lights (the last one I just bought three days ago - UC35); Out of these lights, only one (the E01) failed (just stopped working - no idea why). The other lights are working well. The UC35 (basically a rechargeable PD35) will be my new duty light, and I'll soon find out if it was worth buying. I don't care too much about the rubber "dust cover" over the USB port (looks like it will tear after some use, but a video on YouTube shows a guy running his UC35 in a washing machine, and the light didn't short out). The included holster does not look if it would take much use, but I have a Bianchi holster that I will put the light in. All in all, it looks like a well made flashlight.


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## BriteLite2 (Oct 19, 2016)

wow E01 failed?? You don't hear that often but it does happen even with the toughest lights

I guess a "test" period is required before you can truly rely on a light . Just like a firearm intended for self protection you need to run a minimum of 200 rounds thru it when new.


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## digital9ja (Oct 19, 2016)

After reading about the good experiences users here have had with the PD35 series and some of the reports supporting Fenix customer service I decided to give them another chance. I ordered a PD35 tactical bundle last night. I'm hoping that with the selector button being on the side of the body the tailcap switch won't be as susceptible to damage as the TK16 seemed to be. Only time will tell, but I know amazon will support a hassle-free return if the PD35 drops a deuce on me in the first 30 days. After that I feel confident that Fenix will at least repair the light. If it doesn't work for me I'll probably pick up a Malkoff Cool Turnkey Hound Dog. I still think it is an ugly light but the size looks a lot better to me than the original Hound Dog and it ain't a beauty contest anyway. Hopefully the PD35 will work for me, I was going to buy one of those to begi. With before the longer throw of the TK16 caught my eye. I wasn't all that impressed with the throw of the TK16 so I don't think the PD35 will look too bad in comparison.


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## therock (Dec 22, 2017)

Its been a while but I finally found one of the problems for my Fenix failures. It damages batteries when dropped head first. There is no spring at the head end like the tail and the impact is absorbed by the batteries button top and it collapses.

A co-worker and I have been through this mill and never considered the batteries were taking the hit. We send them back and they return but finally got it figured it out.

We work in an industrial maintenance environment and do not toss them around but do have to lay them on machinery and **** happenes but never from very high.
So I get one back from Fenix and it does not work and I check the battery in an Armytek which has springs at both ends and it works so its a good battery but we noticed the collapsed button. Then we looked at our supply of batteries and seen the collapsed buttons on some of them.

Anyways, for our usage they wiill have to have springs at both ends. I have been running the Armytek for several months witout issue.


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## yossxp (Dec 23, 2017)

Have you thought of using those small magnets that are used to convert flat top to button top batteries? - that might help compensating for the collapsed heads.
Convoy has some at their Ali Express store for example.


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## TimeOnTarget (Dec 23, 2017)

I have had 2 Fenix lights fail for no apparent reason. Never again...

In some ways, I am glad because these failures are what led me to discover this website and the entire flashlight world.


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## PartyPete (Dec 23, 2017)

I have several Fenix lights, none have failed and all have been dropped once if not several times. 

Really the only Chinese company I've had occasional problems with is Nitecore. 

With that said, if I found myself dropping my lights onto hard surfaces on a regular basis, I'd likely opt for a headlamp instead.


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## archimedes (Dec 23, 2017)

yossxp said:


> Have you thought of using those small magnets that are used to convert flat top to button top batteries? - that might help compensating for the collapsed heads....



Dangerous and not recommended ... even moreso in flashlights which get dropped regularly


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## flashy bazook (Dec 24, 2017)

ven said:


> Without trying to take off topic and as much as I like Fenix as a brand(far more after vinh has breathed on them), malkoff is a different market. Solid, dependable, reliable, various tint options and UI to suit life/death situations. Being realistic(and I like my high output lights) day to day uses that malkoff aim at ,do not require 6000lm for a few minutes and mainly very cool tints. Fenix offer now 5yr warrenty(pretty good!) malkoff is for life!
> 
> I own far more Fenix than malkoff so I am not biased, just a different tool for a different aplication.
> 
> ...



Excellent post, ven. Malkoffs are just a different application altogether than the more mainstream Fenixes.

I like many others who have posted here are now mainly using Malkoff products. But this is not to say that there is anything wrong with Fenix.

I had a Fenix period in the past, where I used several of their products, and gave several more away as gifts. I never had a failure with them. I have owned the E and L series AAA key-chain lights, the L1D and L2D (a pioneering light to be sure, as etc pointed out earlier in the thread), the P1D, P2D and variants, and the TK11.

Now, if you want a flashlight that can drop some distance and hit concrete and keep working, several Fenix products would be a bad choice. But as I recall, they also had products that could function after a drop. The TK11, for instance, was torture tested by several people (some posted in youtube) and generally survived.

What Fenix was known for was innovative products, using creative solutions with a variety of battery options (such as, powerful multi-AA lights) and efficient emitters at decent price points. Also useful product lines, such as headlamps, bike flashlight holders, diffusers, etc.

The main difference with the Malkoff line, is that Fenix tends to produce single-use lights. Malkoff, instead, supports a kind of ecosystem of compatible hosts, drop-ins, and heads. So you can switch different drop-ins in the same host, or the same drop-in in different hosts, also possibly switching batteries and even battery chemistries. And typically you don't get multi-modes, strobes, etc. in the Malkoff line (though he does offer some options in this, such as a two-level switch, and one 3-mode drop-in).

As for Surefire, they used to be like Malkoff is today, but have abandoned the strategy and now offer single-use, non-modifiable or compatible flashlights. Kind of like Fenix and almost all others, actually. Probably why Malkoff has gotten such good business, all those Surefire junkies have migrated over to Malkoff who keeps the old Surefire spirit alive.


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## ven (Dec 24, 2017)

Thank you flashy, back at ya, nice read! On the surefire part, i am quite a fan of the old classics. I use these as hosts for a variety of p60 engines to suit specific applications(or simply needs and wants). Take the classic 6p, thats a hell of a light for ............what $40-$50 ish these days. You can simply run the incand p60(which even today the not so good sounding 60lm is pretty excellent in beam and throw), to malkoff drop ins, custom drop ins, triples ,quads............
Few surefires with various engines...............although most are triples and quads(my fav)





Triples




Like none surefire hosts to





Mix/match lego, what ever floats your boat. Some have took many many drops(i dont mean 5 or 10 either..................100's over the years). Most drops probably go to a CQvn which is a quad xp-g2 5000k and sportac triple 219b 2 mode. Never a flicker either, in fact i have replaced switches in the past from drops several times. Never had a drop in fail me, inc tiled floor drops(trust me they are not forgiving) and hard industrial floor drops, either onto reinforced concrete to machine beds of various metals(no soft carpet drops here, just drops that shock and make you cringe). 

Fenix key chain lights have held up also over the years, the e05ss to name one. My other small fenix has been babied, so cant comment but have confidence in it pd35vn quad





My work beater with 219b triple, love this light and tough as old boots, throw in a malkoff drop in if preferred.........


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## flashy bazook (Dec 24, 2017)

ven, that is an awesome collection! Very impressive selection, and many thanks for taking the time to post some photos.

I fully agree, something about these tough metal old lights together with even tougher drop-ins, much prefer it to other plastic flashlights.

I think I have only one triple among my flashlights, but I enjoy its capabilities--1,100 lumens of nice floody light, produced by Oveready, and in my host (2x18500) actually decent runtime.

Sort of the old shower-head LED lights but in a modern and very powerful incarnation. And even though I am not sure this is correct, I get the feeling that if one of those LED lamps died, the others would keep going--for even more redundancy.


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## ven (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks for kind words, 

Oveready are simply awesome, if and it would be a big IF an LED failed, OR would look after you anyway. They probably could even update the LED's if you ever decided to at some point.


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