# Which Surefire?: M6 or 10x Dom.



## Monocrom (Sep 21, 2007)

After having owned a handful of smaller (2 cell) Surefire lights, I'd like something bigger. Having a bit of trouble choosing between the M6 and the 10x Dom. (Currently can only afford to get one or the other). I'm lucky in that I've had a chance to physically examine both. Here's what I've come up with....

*M6*

More compact than 10x. 
More balanced feel than 10x.
Don't have to wait for light to charge up before using it.
Optional lamp gives increased runtime with still impressive 250 lumens.
Never heard a single negative comment about M6.
Strike-bezel equipped model available.

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*10x*

Rechargeable.
No battery-carrier to lose or damage.
Flat profile = can be carried in Surefire V84 holster.
No need to swap out lamp assembly to increase runtime.

On a personal level: The grip on the 10x is far better for my medium-sized hands w/ short fingers, than the thick grip of the M6. The barrel of the M6 has grooves and checkering. It feels secure in my fist. But when activating the tailcap button, and removing my thumb from around the barrel, the light feels as though it's about to fall out of my hand. (If I get an M6, the twist / constant-on is going to be used every time).

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Is there anything about these two lights that I've missed?

Anyone know how waterproof each one is?

If I run the 10x for a few minutes on high, can I "top-off" the battery to get back to a full 20 minutes at 500 lumens? Or will I need to buy a spare battery stick?

Any help would be appreciated.


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## iced_theater (Sep 21, 2007)

You can top it off, it's like other rechargeable duty lights in which you just put it back in the charger if you want. The only problem with it is if you are in fact a police officer and need the light instantly, because you have to halfway unscrew the head to put it in the charger.

I have the 100 lumen bulb in mine and it's fine for 95% of the time. It's only when you really want to see far away or light something up when you use both bulbs.


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## LED61 (Sep 21, 2007)

I believe you've skipped the optional X-LOLA for the M6. Though not an officially recommended lamp for the M6 (MN15), CPF's incan master JS discovered it would run very well with the stock batteries. It is a very nice focused brilliant white beam for 2.5 hours in the M6, with about 200 lumens output.


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## NickDrak (Sep 21, 2007)

M6!!! Will go down as one of the greatest lights ever. Definately the best ever in its class. Plenty of bulb options, plenty of power, and just looks plain bad-***!

The rechargeble only requirement of the 10X kills it for me.


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## NelsonFlashlites (Sep 21, 2007)

Also check out Lumens Factory's offerings, namely the HO-M6A. I've never used it, so I can't comment of the quality, but it states 700 lumens 

http://www.lumensfactory.com/m_series_specification.htm


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## Brozneo (Sep 21, 2007)

I had the same decision to make and I went for the M6 - more compact, more options (can be recharged if your lucky enough to get the parts) and it looks way cool!


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## BSBG (Sep 22, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> *M6*
> 
> 
> Never heard a single negative comment about M6.



That should tell you something . 

The M6 is an amazing piece of hardware. The MN20 is pretty darned bright and runs for an hour constantly. With intermittent use (backed up by something smaller for administrative tasks) it'll last a long time. I highly recommend one, if you have the means.


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## EV_007 (Sep 22, 2007)

I went with the M6 due to its looks and solid construction.


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## AWGD8 (Sep 22, 2007)

I prefer the M6-CB for  factor!

and HID for :wow: factor !


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## FlashKat (Sep 22, 2007)

Plus it allows you to use rechargeable batteries.:thumbsup: I have also heard the M6 is more durable.


NelsonFlashlites said:


> Also check out Lumens Factory's offerings, namely the HO-M6A. I've never used it, so I can't comment of the quality, but it states 700 lumens
> 
> http://www.lumensfactory.com/m_series_specification.htm


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## lightemup (Sep 22, 2007)

I've never tried a 10x, but I love my m6 on HOLA


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## Lightraven (Sep 22, 2007)

After all these years and flashlights, I still carry the M6 on duty. When off duty, it can be shoved in a pocket--not so sure about the 10X. Also, Ni-Cads are not the most reliable batteries. 

Only if I used the flashlight every night would I get a 10X so as not to waste batteries. But for infrequent use, the M6 is the better choice.

For negative comments--I've had two bad 250 lumen bulbs in the past, one died after 15 minutes, the other exploded after 15 minutes. Since running 500 lumen bulbs, no problems.


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## dudemar (Sep 22, 2007)

NelsonFlashlites said:


> Also check out Lumens Factory's offerings, namely the HO-M6A. I've never used it, so I can't comment of the quality, but it states 700 lumens
> 
> http://www.lumensfactory.com/m_series_specification.htm



That's actually 700 bulb lumens, which translates to about 450 torch lumens- which isn't bad at all for a rechargeable M6.:devil: The only question left is the beam quality/shape compared to the MN-21.

the Dudemar


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## Monocrom (Sep 22, 2007)

Much thanks to everyone who posted. 

I've just finished looking through older topics and posts on CPF, with regards to both lights. 

(CPF remains the only forum I know where the search feature not only works, but can be described as _far _better than half-way decent). 

Came across a couple of eye-opening posts. Based on those, and a realistic look at my needs and how I would use these lights, I've decided that the 10x Dom. would be a better fit, for me. 

Thanks again for taking the time to post in my thread.


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## mdocod (Sep 23, 2007)

I think if I were in the market with that much money I'd build up a leefbodied SF (probably 2x18650), with SF turbo and a FiveMega bi-pin MN assembly. I might consider running the 5761 on unprotected cells for that 500 lumen category, or the 5762 as a "LOLA."


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## Monocrom (Sep 23, 2007)

mdocod said:


> I think if I were in the market with that much money I'd build up a leefbodied SF (probably 2x18650), with SF turbo and a FiveMega bi-pin MN assembly. I might consider running the 5761 on unprotected cells for that 500 lumen category, or the 5762 as a "LOLA."


 
I've always respected your opinion. 

But I must admit that the thought of using unprotected cells makes me very uneasy.

Also, I know of a B&M store that sells both lights _without_ even the slightest mark-up.


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## DM51 (Sep 23, 2007)

AW's P18650s might fire up a 5761 (I haven't tried this). It would be ~2.4C? I'm not sure what AW sets the discharge rate protection at, but 2x AW P18500s will fire up a WA1111 OK, and that is ~2.4C too.


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## Size15's (Sep 23, 2007)

> No battery-carrier to lose or damage.


I can honestly say that this has never, ever been an issue. I had never even contemplated this until you posted it. Personally I consider it irrelevant. 



> Flat profile = can be carried in Surefire V84 holster.














Even though I have two 10X's, I hardly use them. However, I use M6's all the time.

Al


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## tino_ale (Sep 23, 2007)

This is the first time I read someone mentionning about this possible issue, and I'm glad you did because since the first time I saw a picture of an M6 in someone's hand, I've been wondering about this.

I personnally have large hands, so I don't think it'll be an issue, and I'm looking forward getting one. Also I don't intend to use it flashing or momentary, but more continuously with X-LOLA option (MN15). So I wouldn't use bush button that much.

Still, if your fingers are not so long, I believe the grip possible issue is a very valid point. While having thumb on the push button, as you say some people will have half of the M6 fat body out of their hand.



Monocrom said:


> On a personal level: The grip on the 10x is far better for my medium-sized hands w/ short fingers, than the thick grip of the M6. The barrel of the M6 has grooves and checkering. It feels secure in my fist. But when activating the tailcap button, and removing my thumb from around the barrel, the light feels as though it's about to fall out of my hand.


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## BSBG (Sep 23, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> A
> *10x*
> 
> 
> ...



Some might even consider having a pre-loaded carrier as a spare for quick swapping out an advantage of the M6 .


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## zk188 (Sep 23, 2007)

mdocod said:


> I think if I were in the market with that much money I'd build up a leefbodied SF (probably 2x18650), with SF turbo and a FiveMega bi-pin MN assembly. I might consider running the 5761 on unprotected cells for that 500 lumen category, or the 5762 as a "LOLA."


 
+1 I am running this same setup and it works very well.


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## BSBG (Sep 23, 2007)

mdocod said:


> , or the 5762 as a "LOLA."



What are the specs on a 5762? A quick search at bulbconnection yields:
*
No results found for keywords: "5762"*



Carley 1057, perhaps?


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## mdocod (Sep 23, 2007)

sorry to end up taking this off topic a bit.. and also: sorry I remembered the part number wrong, it's the philips 5962 (not 5762), 6V, 10W, 150 lumen, 200 hour, should translate to about 14W, ~15 hour, 300+ B-Lumen on 18650s, Would be somewhere between the performance of a MN15 and MN16, nice middle-ground, a Step under a HO-M3T but a step over the MN15. I think it would be a pretty good match for li-ion configs.


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## DM51 (Sep 24, 2007)

Md, what program are you using to calculate bulb performance? Is it AWR's hotrater, or is there something better? I find myself guessing most of the time and would like to use something more accurate than that.


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## Monocrom (Sep 24, 2007)

*To: Size15's -*

With regards to the battery carrier, I must admit that I have never lost or damaged any of the cheap ones that came with the handful of No-Name lights or the Coast V6 Recon model I own. Still, for others, it might be an issue.

Had no idea the M6 also fit in the V84 holster. Surefire has no holsters listed on its site as options for the M6. 

I am curious though, do you normally reach for an M6 over a 10x Dom. out of personal preference. Or is there a pragmatic reason that I haven't noticed?

Two main reasons why I chose to go with the 10x Dom. is that the grip is just much better, in my hands, vs. that of the M6. It's not just about comfort, I'd be constantly afraid of dropping an M6 if I needed to use it. That fact alone is just not going to inspire confidence in using such a product. 

The other reason is that I found quite a few older posts in other threads of CPFers who own an M6, and are doing their best to find a way to turn it into a rechargeable. With a 10x Dom., that part is already covered.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*To: tino ale -*

One good thing about living in NYC is that there are several Authorized Surefire Dealers. Those that have one of these lights in stock, tend to carry the other one too. Being able to physically handle both was a huge advantage. The 10x is a smaller and lighter flashlight than a lot of folks think it is. Despite the somewhat weird look of it, the light is surprisingly well-balanced. The rubber inserts on the handle also help to enhance grip. 

I didn't think it would be such a good fit in my hand, or that the M6 wouldn't, until I got to try them both out.... This isn't really an issue with smaller lights. But with bigger ones, a good fit in the hand can be a deciding factor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*To: BSBG -*

You're absolutely right about the quick swap ability with the M6's battery carrier. But the same could be done with an extra battery stick / handle for the 10x. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## c0t0d0s0 (Sep 24, 2007)

dudemar said:


> That's actually 700 bulb lumens, which translates to about 450 torch lumens- which isn't bad at all for a rechargeable M6.:devil: The only question left is the beam quality/shape compared to the MN-21.
> 
> the Dudemar



The beam quality of HO-M6R is actually very nice: it is whiter and a bit more focused than the MN21, so while it puts out less light overall, it throws just as well, and just as suitable as the MN21 for illumination of distant targets.

I posted the runtime graph earlier in this thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/170013&page=3

Charging 6 RCR123s is a PITA though, I'm powering mine with 3 17670 cells in a modified Fivemega holder.


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## Size15's (Sep 24, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> *To: Size15's -*
> With regards to the battery carrier, I must admit that I have never lost or damaged any of the cheap ones that came with the handful of No-Name lights or the Coast V6 Recon model I own. Still, for others, it might be an issue.


I guess one could drop the MB20 (full) and it may dent the outer negative contact plate... But it's a pretty beefy unit...



Monocrom said:


> Had no idea the M6 also fit in the V84 holster. Surefire has no holsters listed on its site as options for the M6.


Although the V84 was designed for the 10X - the first flashlight I tried it with was an M6... I was delighted when it fitted!



Monocrom said:


> I am curious though, do you normally reach for an M6 over a 10x Dom. out of personal preference. Or is there a pragmatic reason that I haven't noticed?


Actually, I find rechargeable flashlights a real pain - it's just too much effort to either be tied to a charger, or carry the damn thing around.
The 10X has a larger high beam, and an actually useful main beam (with optional higher output main beam which is great).
Even though the 10X's grip is 'oval' compared to the M6, the 10X is longer and more bezel-heavy.

The times when I reach for a 10X rather than M6 are extremely few and far between.

Al


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## BurkStar (Sep 24, 2007)

I've had both lights and both worked extremely well. My only complaint about the 10X is the charger. I got a package deal with two new batteries and a slightly used one (the light was an in-store demo model). Shortly after getting it, the charger would only charge one of the batteries without a whole lot of jiggling to get it to work. I sent all three batteries back to SF, figuring it was probably the batteries...it wasn't. So bottom line, the charger sucks (at least the one I had). I should've returned the charger, but didn't use the light enough (clunky to use with my small hands) to worry about keeping extra batteries fully charged.


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## Monocrom (Sep 24, 2007)

Size15's said:


> ..... The times when I reach for a 10X rather than M6 are extremely few and far between.
> 
> Al


 
I appreciate the entire, honest response. Thank You.


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## Monocrom (Sep 24, 2007)

BurkStar said:


> I've had both lights and both worked extremely well. My only complaint about the 10X is the charger. I got a package deal with two new batteries and a slightly used one (the light was an in-store demo model). Shortly after getting it, the charger would only charge one of the batteries without a whole lot of jiggling to get it to work. I sent all three batteries back to SF, figuring it was probably the batteries...it wasn't. So bottom line, the charger sucks (at least the one I had). I should've returned the charger, but didn't use the light enough (clunky to use with my small hands) to worry about keeping extra batteries fully charged.


 
Oh hey, I recall you mentioned trying to find a replacement for your 10x. 

Something with the same output, but more balanced, perhaps lighter, and a better charger?

When I tried out the 10x at a B&M store, I had no problems with weight or balance. But I'll admit that's more likely personal preference. I'll take my chances with the charger. But were you able to find a replacement that lights up right away, or did you go the HID route?


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## mdocod (Sep 24, 2007)

> Md, what program are you using to calculate bulb performance? Is it AWR's hotrater, or is there something better? I find myself guessing most of the time and would like to use something more accurate than that. -DM51



I'm using what I would call a step above guessing, but not far off... Just using Halogen re-rate formulas for most stuff, I use a slightly different formula for small xenon lamps than I do for halogens... the halogen formulas: (IIRC, this is off top of my head, don't wanna look em up right now, lol)
[(Va/Vd)^3.5]*design lumen = re-rated lumen
[(Va/Vd)^0.55]*design current = re-rated current
[(Va/Vd)^0.317]*design cct = re-rated cct
[(Vd/Va)^12]*design life = re-rated life

Va= applied voltage,
Vd= design voltage,


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## dudemar (Sep 27, 2007)

c0t0d0s0 said:


> The beam quality of HO-M6R is actually very nice: it is whiter and a bit more focused than the MN21, so while it puts out less light overall, it throws just as well, and just as suitable as the MN21 for illumination of distant targets.
> 
> I posted the runtime graph earlier in this thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/170013&page=3
> 
> Charging 6 RCR123s is a PITA though, I'm powering mine with 3 17670 cells in a modified Fivemega holder.



Thanks!

the Dudemar


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## NotRegulated (Sep 28, 2007)

I do not own the M6. I do own the 10X. Ihave owned and used the 10X for around 6 years now. I have, however, had the opportunity to play with both the M6 and 10X side by side several times. I like the compactness of the M6 and the ability to keep it loaded with 6 123's for lengthy periods of time. I prefer the rechargeable 10X if you plan to use it daily, every other day or heavily each week. If you use it less than this, the M6 may be a better choice.

Other than the above, the 10X has a floodier beam than the M6 at the same distance. Put another way,the M6 has a little more throw than the 10X. Other than in the hand ,the 10X is harder to find carry options than the M6.

Psychologically, I tend to use the 10X quite liberally knowing I can recharge it. When I had the M6 to play with, the cost and runtime of the batteries seemed to always be an issue in the back of my mind.
Knowing what I know today, a compact HID may be a better option than the M6, unless the light will be used in a remote area with no rechargeable option, you plan to store it and use it very infrequently or cost of 123's is not an issue.


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## Brozneo (Sep 28, 2007)

I have just received my first M6 today and the first thing I thought was "damn it's small!" - from the photos on here I was expecting something the size / a bit bigger than a 2D Mag, but no its about 5-6cm shorter - and it looks awesome. The M6 beam doesnt have as much side spill as I thought it would, but to make up for this it throws a long way. I found both the MN20 and MN21 beams to be very oval, I ordered a FM Bi-Pin adapter for the M6 and I tried the WA1111 in it which I find gives it a much nicer beam with no loss in brightness (possibly brighter than the MN21)... And Im not going to use my M6 too much so I'm running it on primaries.


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## Monocrom (Sep 28, 2007)

NotRegulated said:


> Other than in the hand ,the 10X is harder to find carry options than the M6.


 
Actually, looking through older threads on CPF, I found the opposite to be true. Before Al posted the pic of one of his M6s in the Surefire V84 holster, I had no idea how it could be carried on one's person. A 10x will fit in the V84, and I found an old thread that shows another carry option for it.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/131823


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## Size15's (Sep 28, 2007)

SureFire proto-typed this carry option for a while before deciding to go the belt pouch/holster route, which I think is the better way (given that I've got one of the proto-types and prefer the V84.


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## NotRegulated (Sep 28, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> Actually, looking through older threads on CPF, I found the opposite to be true. Before Al posted the pic of one of his M6s in the Surefire V84 holster, I had no idea how it could be carried on one's person. A 10x will fit in the V84, and I found an old thread that shows another carry option for it.
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/131823




Thanks for the info on the V84. It's just what I need.
There was no V84 when I originally bought my 10X. I used to stuff it in my back pocket. I haven't been carrying the 10X as of late because there was no real belt carry option. At the time, there were rumors of a holster coming out but the early solutions never materialized, such as Size15's proto. I found neat proto's on PK's website back then too.

The carry option in the link you posted...try running with that setup!:thumbsdow


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## Monocrom (Sep 29, 2007)

Size15's said:


> SureFire proto-typed this carry option for a while before deciding to go the belt pouch/holster route, which I think is the better way (given that I've got one of the proto-types and prefer the V84.


 
I think the V84 is a better bet too. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*To: NotRegulated -*

Running with such a set-up would be far from ideal. But it does represent one option.... At least until your V84 arrives!


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