# Suggestion on developing high CRI LED flashlight



## ddaniel (Jun 10, 2017)

Hello guys,

we are planning on making LED flashlight, surely with our ultra high CRI LED light source, do you have any suggestion on the parameter decision? Like lumen, product appearance, battery type, functions, etc.

Any comment or advise is greatly appreciated! 

Thanks! 

YUJI LED
Daniel


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 10, 2017)

Outstanding news Daniel. Best of luck! 

Please tell us what LED's you will be using; their lumens per watt, maximum amperage, etc.

Something really small and fairly light (bigger than a Photon Freedom but significantly smaller than a Nitecore TIP CRI) for a keychain that can be easily recharged without having to remove the battery; maybe 3 modes, (fraction of 1 lumen, maybe 10 lumens, and maximum). Switch is highly unlikely to accidentally activate and is easily, quickly found; truly durable and efficient about shedding heat; surface does not look beat-up after considerable use; water resistant.

Please update us on your progress


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## phosphor22 (Jun 10, 2017)

Great news. I would love to see a very compact AAA with at least two levels of output -- very low -- around 1 lumen or less, and perhaps 30 or 30+ lumens (if two modes).


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 10, 2017)

Daniel, if you all are coming out with higher performing emitters with excellent Yuji quality CRI, please say so. We warmly welcome that.


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## scs (Jun 10, 2017)

Daniel, aside from the Yuji high CRI, which is a welcomed premium, for any light I'd look for solid construction with clean, smooth square or trapezoidal threads, good o-ring seals for minimum IPX8, enough threads at both ends for 3-4 full turns of the head and tailcap, constant current driver with no PWM, flat regulation for ALL levels for the duration of the stated runtime, either an electronic switch or tail switch, but not both, and perhaps you guys can also experiment with TIR optics in lieu of reflectors.


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## degarb (Jun 10, 2017)

Forget modes, do infinite ramping driver. USB recharge,right angle head. IE.,take a look at the Imalent hr20 ui. Though, press and hold on button for ramping up and down works. For now, the 18650 rules for energy per gram, unless you can install a 2170 from tesla-panasonic.


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## Ozythemandias (Jun 11, 2017)

There's a void in the market for high CRI and light, headlamps, preferably I'd like one cr123, AA or AAA. 

There's also zero right angle high CRI triples on the market.


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## ddaniel (Jun 11, 2017)

Hi, thank for the information. 

Now we are considering to use the 3030 LED type, (highest lumen of 90-98 at 4000K, typical 1 watt at full current of 300mA, CRI Ra around 95-97), AAA battery is a first choice since we do not need consider the reliability of the battery and transportation issue, but we are also evaluating the battery of 18650 which is rechargeable. 

I am not sure about if we could achieve the function on dimming on our first generation product, I will check it later. 

of course we are also considering other LED type but currently this 3030 is a balance of lumen and size. 
For another thought we are thinking about using typical 9W COB for a highest 1000lm flashlight as well, but as you said the heat dissipation is very critical, so we would consider more on this. 




KITROBASKIN said:


> Outstanding news Daniel. Best of luck!
> 
> Please tell us what LED's you will be using; their lumens per watt, maximum amperage, etc.
> 
> ...


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## ddaniel (Jun 11, 2017)

thank you. 

we definitely will consider all of these, but you know, probably we could only achieve a few of these features, what is the top 3 important for you?



scs said:


> Daniel, aside from the Yuji high CRI, which is a welcomed premium, for any light I'd look for solid construction with clean, smooth square or trapezoidal threads, good o-ring seals for minimum IPX8, enough threads at both ends for 3-4 full turns of the head and tailcap, constant current driver with no PWM, flat regulation for ALL levels for the duration of the stated runtime, either an electronic switch or tail switch, but not both, and perhaps you guys can also experiment with TIR optics in lieu of reflectors.


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## ma tumba (Jun 11, 2017)

Daniel, besides a complete light you may want to consider making light engines, which are more in line with your profile and which would be much welcome by the community. One possibility is Aleph compatible light engines, because aleph platform is quite popular.

Another good thing for the community would be offering smaller batches of LEDs themselves either directly or via distributors, because 100ea minimum requires a group buy. I would be very happy to try both your 3030 and 5730 in different colors if they are available in, say, 10x batches and with cheaper postage. 

I am a big fan of domeless LEDs at the moment.


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## ssanasisredna (Jun 11, 2017)

For the 10 people that will buy it from CPF, I can't possibly see why you would waste your time. Super high CRI and a flashlight, especially at lower lumen levels will have little to no mass appeal. Just let your LED customers do their thing and don't compete with them even if one of them is going to build it.

At lower lux levels, CRI is not nearly as meaningful.

As a LED vendor, if this is what you think is going to drive sales, I can't see you guys being in business very long.


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## gunga (Jun 11, 2017)

I'm interested but the parameters are too vague for now. I agree with phosphor22. If you can do a two levels aaa with those levels.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 11, 2017)

A little harsh, don't you think? This post #11 starts off with a gross underestimation, making the rest of the information suspect. CRI may not be meaningful to you at less than 100 lumens. Then your final insult about not being in business very long if they do not follow your idea of a business plan... 

http://www.webmd.com/balance/stress-management/features/how-anger-hurts-your-heart



ssanasisredna said:


> For the 10 people that will buy it from CPF, I can't possibly see why you would waste your time. Super high CRI and a flashlight, especially at lower lumen levels will have little to no mass appeal. Just let your LED customers do their thing and don't compete with them even if one of them is going to build it.
> 
> At lower lux levels, CRI is not nearly as meaningful.
> 
> As a LED vendor, if this is what you think is going to drive sales, I can't see you guys being in business very long.


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## ma tumba (Jun 11, 2017)

ssanasisredna said:


> At lower lux levels, CRI is not nearly as meaningful.


1000 lumens from 3 meters will privide roughly same brighntess as 10 lumens from 30 centimeters (12 inches). So 100 lumens high CRI light is a great close range tool. 

This brings up the question which of the Yuji emitters are the best for flashlights? I think they are best for mules (there is minimal tint variation across the beam for they don't have domes, just like 083b which McGizmo referred to as a dedicated mule LED). In this case, putting 3x 98 cri 30lm emitters side by side would provide 100 lumens of nearly perfect light. I recall that Yuji LEDs are superior to Nichias for red color rendition.


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## degarb (Jun 11, 2017)

Ssa has one point, at low lux levels you can't see color, even at high cri. 

Using headlamps for painting, it is possible to get any corded light looking dim, unless you use over 80k lumen hid lights. The Hotspot Corona can be close to rod and cones overlay of vision-so a headlamp has a huge leg up over a flood corded light, as photons are pointed only to current viewing area. At higher currents, outside colors. Though not sure the premium value over a 80cri xpl 4300k, or nichia, for average person-which I am not. I chase lumens, precisely because I can see colors better at higher lumance. Color for eyeballs is cri, gai, and luminance. My camera mainly likes cri. I am still trying to figure out how to weight these. Give me a 65cri 400 watt metal halide any day for painting, over a 500 watt halogen - the color perception contest isn't even close. 

I would only buy, if a light engine I could use off two 18650s. Or if they made it in a good right angle design. Yeah probably $60-$100 is my limit, since I can make my own 374 lumen xpl v6 neutral 2s8650 186lpw infinitely variable 8h40 minutes minimum runtime headlamp for $35 to $40 and a few hours. I also may be turned off if the lpw were too low.


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## ssanasisredna (Jun 11, 2017)

KITROBASKIN said:


> A little harsh, don't you think? This post #11 starts off with a gross underestimation, making the rest of the information suspect. CRI may not be meaningful to you at less than 100 lumens. Then your final insult about not being in business very long if they do not follow your idea of a business plan...
> 
> http://www.webmd.com/balance/stress-management/features/how-anger-hurts-your-heart



My company has higher sales in the LED industry than Yuji. I am just calling it honestly. They should not even consider distracting themselves with this. Terrible waste of precious resources.

What you see as an insult I see as painful reality.


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## degarb (Jun 12, 2017)

ssanasisredna said:


> My company has higher sales in the LED industry than Yuji. I am just calling it honestly. They should not even consider distracting themselves with this. Terrible waste of precious resources.
> 
> What you see as an insult I see as painful reality.





But, what about the consumer perspective? Would the Yuji bring anything worthwhile? 

As stated before, for what I do, 10 to 20k lux in real world at arm length off 2s18650 for 12 hour, 12 degree Hotspot, is child's play. My 120k lumen 1000 watt usually paints 4k lux at a typical distance. No more drowsy interior feeling. Though, outside, my lux meter shows 700 to 7000 lux on shade side of house and 20k to 30k in open on cloudy day, and 100k in open on sunny day. 

Also, there are a ton of dealer on this forum. So, I might be wise to wonder how much of the high cri, warm tint, is being artificially generated by dealer, seeing a way to sell more lights to the same consumers.

And why couldn't Yuji just work with zebra or imalent, take an existing light, and drop in a Yuji,plus Yuji specific reflector or tir. A $2 led, adding $40 to some light. Whether it would be an improvement, would depend on the tradeoffs chosen by Yuji. I look at it as, how well I can see per available watt. However, others are indicating to me, that it is a preference and another o. c. d. challenge.


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## markr6 (Jun 12, 2017)

degarb said:


> And why couldn't Yuji just work with zebra



YES! Put me down for...hell, here's my check book


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## Nichia! (Jun 12, 2017)

I swear to god I had the same Idea [emoji362] about Yuji Led inside Zebralight Hi & the sc5 series and in the Egaltac d25c ( one of my favorite ) it would be awesome to see these lights someday.. 
I would buy at least 30 lights I promise you!!! 
And an aaa flashlight are very welcomed idea too.. 

U know what makes us the following 

Single Cr123/RCR123 light 
Single AAA light
Single AA light 
Single 18650 light
& for the appearance [emoji102] just inspirer from Zebralight and U will be good to go!

It would be awesome if it is ( Made in Japan ) light


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## kaichu dento (Jun 12, 2017)

scs said:


> ...smooth square or trapezoidal threads, good o-ring seals for minimum IPX8, enough threads at both ends for 3-4 full turns of the head and tailcap, constant current driver with no PWM, flat regulation for ALL levels for the duration of the stated runtime, either an electronic switch or tail switch...


Yes please to all of the above.


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## kaichu dento (Jun 12, 2017)

degarb said:


> USB recharge...


This too.


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## archimedes (Jun 12, 2017)

Ok, OP has asked for advice here .... Let's all try to participate constructively, please.


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## iamlucky13 (Jun 12, 2017)

Hi Daniel, I will be very interested to see what your company produces. Good luck with this project.

Hopefully the many different suggestions you're getting here are not too confusing. Each of us has different ideas about the perfect light, but I think between what we say here, and seeing what other companies have had success with, you'll be able to come up with a useful light.

My first thought is that your specialty seems to be the LED's themselves, not the products that use LED's. Have you tried partnering with existing flashlight manufacturers to have them produce lights with your LED in it?

For example, Lumintop and Manker seem like companies who are willing to partner with others in the lighting world to make special edition lights. Singfire has also worked with members of Budgetlightforum.com to create a very simple, 1 mode flashlight that is very affordable, using the Nichia 219B series LED - referred to as a BLF-348 light. I think some members might similarly be interested in a "Yuji-348."

I also once wrote to Fenix suggesting they make a version of their low power E01 light with your BC-series 5mm LED in it, because the E01 is a popular low power emergency light, but they apparently did not think my idea was very interesting. Perhaps a proposal from your company explaining the excellent lighting quality of your product would interest them?

With that said, if you prefer to create a light independent of other companies, from what I know of your product line, I think a light powered by a single AAA battery is a very sensible starting point, since your 3030 series is a symmetrical product with a power rating similar to other 1xAAA lights.

I currently have a 1 x AAA light using a 5mm LED that I installed one of your BC series LED's in. Because it is probably only around 8 lumens and that is spread out over a very wide beam, I use it only in very low light situations but it has a very pleasant, comforting light quality none of my other lights matches. It produces a very wide beam of light, but if I had a flashlight that produced in the 50-100 lumen range, I could use it in more situations. A light with a reflector or refractive optic that focused the beam into a slightly tighter angle would also help make it more versatile to me.

Two or three modes would be great and probably help make the light more popular, but if you don't want to commit to that in your first product, I understand.

As you have probably seen, the most popular format is an aluminum body with control either by twisting the head, or using a mechanical tail switch.

Thanks for taking our input!


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## twistedraven (Jun 13, 2017)

Around 300 lumens for 2 hours powered by an 18650 with constant regulation would be ideal.

Low around 1-2 lumens
Medium round 40 lumens
High around 300 lumuns.


If the high can't achieve 300 lumens, at least make the 3 brightness levels appear to equally spread apart in subjective brightness, so something like:

1 lumen
15 lumen
150 lumen


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## markr6 (Jun 13, 2017)

twistedraven said:


> Around 300 lumens for 2 hours powered by an 18650 with constant regulation would be ideal.
> 
> Low around 1-2 lumens
> Medium round 40 lumens
> ...



I like that. And no fancy gimmicks or extras (strobe, usb charging, window breaker, unicorn deterrent, etc.) Just a simple L-M-H cycle with instant access to low and high (or just low at the very least). SHORT (1 second) reset time.


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## Nichia! (Jun 13, 2017)

U should be careful about 1 thing here 
All of us wants the best UI and everyone of us have different Definition of ( perfect User Interface UI ) 
The best UI On the planet is ( User Programable ) and that's what everyone here wants ( the power of choosing light output on the start ) So please think about this very carefully..


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## markr6 (Jun 13, 2017)

Yea we will never all agree on the perfect UI since that changes from person to person. But there are some out there that simply don't make sense and I'd love to omit those from the start. I won't even mention them since _those_ are probably the perfect UI to others.


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## iamlucky13 (Jun 13, 2017)

I would venture to say low, medium, high, with a reverse clicky switch is probably the most popular interface, even though I know of several users here who don't like that sequence, and some keychain users who prefer twisty heads, but it's probably an irrelevant discussion since Daniel said they were not sure they can do a multi-mode light for their first product.

Since single-mode lights aren't as popular, that's why I suggested trying to partner with a company that has existing lights. In particular, I think an Lumintop Tool with a Yuji 3030 LED would be interesting (even better if programmed with Low, medium, high interface). I assume a couple small changes would be needed, but how radical could they be? Different MCPCB with the proper solder pad? Maybe a different reflector shape?

Yuji doesn't have a small, square emitter than can produce 300 lumens. Their 3030 LED is rated for about 90 lumens in the 4000 Kelvin version. To get higher output would require multiple emitters, or else an unusual LED size for a flashlight.


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## ssanasisredna (Jun 13, 2017)

degarb said:


> And why couldn't Yuji just work with zebra or imalent, take an existing light, and drop in a Yuji,plus Yuji specific reflector or tir. A $2 led, adding $40 to some light. Whether it would be an improvement, would depend on the tradeoffs chosen by Yuji. I look at it as, how well I can see per available watt. However, others are indicating to me, that it is a preference and another o. c. d. challenge.



This was my original suggestion. I can't see why Yuji would want to compete with their own potential customers. This is not an Apple/Google Pixel deal where the technology investment is enormous as are the volumes.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 13, 2017)

Zebralight has said in the past that they will not use Nichia, it is doubtful they would try Yuji, partly because ZL is about serious brightness capability in a small package. Imalent?.. Manker maybe. What about Mountain Electronics? Aren't there are quite a few overseas companies that will put your name on a host, build the engine you spec and let you distribute it? Or build the engine in-house. Isn't that what Skylumen did some years back? 

Medical personnel could definitely use a HI CRI to examine mouth color, etc. Electricians and communications folks could use good color rendering to distinguish colored wires. Those of us who would like to check how done the food is on the barbeque. Others like us just prefer not to be distracted with dingy illumination trying to find a keyhole or a dropped baby pacifier in a movie theatre. None of these tasks (and many more) require more than 90 lumens or so. 

Who knows if maybe someone at Yuji has some idea that is not a repeat of a Lumintop (which has accidental activation issues for some of us) but more like a smaller, lighter Manker LAD that has double click maximum, single click gives efficient medium, and click hold to get fraction of a lumen. Use the same rechargeable battery as the LAD or similar. 

The new Ultratac A5 is interesting for a AAA flashlight. It needs something like a Yuji emitter although once again, like the user interface wars, some of us would much prefer what Yuji can do with a 5600K excellent color rendering LED (The 5mm Yuji 5600K emitter is in a modified Photon pinch light residing on my key chain this very moment)

Even Yuji doing something with a COB LED putting out ~1000 lumens would be interesting indeed. Single mode? Sure!


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## twistedraven (Jun 13, 2017)

If it's only a 90 lumen emitter, sounds like we'd need a triple optic. Source it to Mtn Electronics or somebody. I personally would prefer an optic with a more concentrated hotspot as opposed to the overly diffused ones.


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## kaichu dento (Jun 14, 2017)

twistedraven said:


> If it's only a 90 lumen emitter, sounds like we'd need a triple optic.
> 
> I personally would prefer an optic with a more concentrated hotspot as opposed to the overly diffused ones.


Two more points I fully agree with!


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## brickbat (Jun 14, 2017)

ddaniel said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> we are planning on making LED flashlight, surely with our ultra high CRI LED light source, do you have any suggestion on the parameter decision? Like lumen, product appearance, battery type, functions, etc.
> 
> Any comment or advise is greatly appreciated!



Forget it. 

Focus your efforts on establishing a US-based distributor for your LEDs.

Think Digikey or Mouser.


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## snakebite (Jun 17, 2017)

i have seen lights with domeless 3030 in a reflector that did fairly well.
i thought it would be nice to use the yuji leds to mod things.
but the barrier to entry being high means that we fall back to what is tried and true.
if these leds could be obtained easily i bet you would see a lot of mods and customs using them.then you would already have insight as to what works well.
you might post at budgetlightforum.com too


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## vikaspaul (Jun 17, 2017)

Best of luck for your endeavor !

I suggest you to keep the size of flashlight small so that it do not cover the area, but instead works for what it meant to be. Flashlights are for decorative purpose and it should not show2 itself but illuminate others.


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## majid (Jun 19, 2017)

Sadly the market for high-CRI flashlights is fairly limited. Most people only care about brightness. I'd love to see Olight make lights with high-CRI emitters.

On the other hand, there is a big market for video continuous lights with high CRI, and a panel like the Manfrotto Spectra will feature hundreds of LEDs:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1032915-REG/manfrotto_mls1x1s_1x1_led_daylight_5600k.html


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## BloodLust (Jun 19, 2017)

Ozythemandias said:


> There's a void in the market for high CRI and light, headlamps, preferably I'd like one cr123, AA or AAA.
> 
> There's also zero right angle high CRI triples on the market.



This! Would love a high CRI dedicated headlamp and a triple angle light.


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## degarb (Jun 19, 2017)

Another chirp from me: just occurred to me where we all need high cri edc, but are now limping by with subpar leds : INDOORS WITH OUR POCKET CAMERA PHONES!! 

Christmas mornings, birthdays, selfies-all-need a better led on phone, and a high power, tiny, pocket able, high cri flood that we could carry around, until this gets built in, or just to augment. Pure flood, so you could save $20 on the optics. 


As a high cri agnostic, lacking proof that high cri helps me see subtle color variations when using or color matching, after 12 years and thousands of tests, including 150 close shades charts on one page, the improvement of high cri in camera was certain. Human made cameras are 100 cri optimized, and less able to adjust than human eye.


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## ssanasisredna (Jun 20, 2017)

degarb said:


> Another chirp from me: just occurred to me where we all need high cri edc, but are now limping by with subpar leds : INDOORS WITH OUR POCKET CAMERA PHONES!!
> 
> Christmas mornings, birthdays, selfies-all-need a better led on phone, and a high power, tiny, pocket able, high cri flood that we could carry around, until this gets built in, or just to augment. Pure flood, so you could save $20 on the optics.
> 
> ...



No not really. Cameras can do just fine with <100 CRI, even with fairly poor CRI, though somewhat flat spectrum helps. Biggest issues are monitor calibration, trade-offs in the RGB pattern demosaicing, differences between capture filters and display spectrums, etc. Trying to catch the subtlety of color with only three broadband sensors results in trade-offs, though in theory if the capture and display have the same spectral characteristics, you can get very close. You are adding in narrow band reflectance issues of the objects you are viewing/etc.

As opposed to high-cri, dual white point LEDs systems are being used which creates more data points.

Most people are happier with colors that are more saturated than reality and would pick those almost always anyway when it comes to photography.


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## neutralwhite (Jun 21, 2017)

I'll Consider an aaa 4000k and an 18650 5600k!. 
Im in!. 
Love to Yuji!.


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## degarb (Jun 21, 2017)

ssanasisredna said:


> No not really. Cameras can do just fine with <100 CRI, even with fairly poor CRI, though somewhat flat spectrum helps. Biggest issues are monitor calibration, trade-offs in the RGB pattern demosaicing, differences between capture filters and display spectrums, etc. Trying to catch the subtlety of color with only three broadband sensors results in trade-offs, though in theory if the capture and display have the same spectral characteristics, you can get very close. You are adding in narrow band reflectance issues of the objects you are viewing/etc.
> 
> As opposed to high-cri, dual white point LEDs systems are being used which creates more data points.
> 
> Most people are happier with colors that are more saturated than reality and would pick those almost always anyway when it comes to photography.



Dual white. You mean like my crude trick of wearing a cool on head and warm of wrist, for color skip/streak hunting while painting? Or visa versa. 

Can you think of any useful situation where the Yuji on battery would be worth the premium? 

My concern too is reduced luminance per watt will be a regression in color perception, not an improvement. Unless, runtime does not matter and the Yuji could be pumped furiously with current. 

Sorry to say, just got a new Nichia 219b 4000 Kelvin flashlight in the mail yesterday. Compared to my xpl hi, the only situation it was better was upclose on red and red heavy wood (even compared to the warm xpl hi) . At any distance greater than 10 foot, it was crushed by the 4300 Kelvin xpl hi for color, as it was just plain dimmer. All my research keeps saying, color is cri, gai, and luminance, combined. Both the Nichia and xpl hi 4300 Kelvin light, shift the powder blues toward teal, when they are pure blue. And I got to hand it, the 6500 xpl hi is way better than most xml from the 2014 Era and before, still selling inside cheap lights.

All tests were done at 2.1 amps, New Panasonic 3400s. I will test current with alternate mm later. Hoping my early impressions are correct, and not way off what is achievable with the hi cri emitter. If the Nichia could be pumped double current from my tests, it might keep up with the other two, and surpass in color rendering for the eye.

Really, the high cri Nichia has brought me no closer to the perfect task light. Still need that cool for good blue. And I am not sure about the swap choice of lumens for better red.


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## degarb (Jun 21, 2017)

Testing current next morning with a good multimeter, the Nichia may have been driven at 75% the xpl hi. Probably 70 percent as efficient, these 4300kelvin go to v5 bin. This would put the Nichia at 475 lumen v. 900 lumen cool xpl and probably 800 is for the warm. The xpl could have a more efficient driver, who knows. This would account for the non-trivial difference between the two emitter brands. So, still an agnostic. I would still be compelled, against my will, to buy a Yuji light, just for professional curiosity. That is, unless specs looked horrible.


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## ssanasisredna (Jun 22, 2017)

degarb said:


> Dual white. You mean like my crude trick of wearing a cool on head and warm of wrist, for color skip/streak hunting while painting? Or visa versa.
> 
> Can you think of any useful situation where the Yuji on battery would be worth the premium?
> 
> ...



Everything you are saying here makes complete sense. Color discrimination is better at higher lighting levels which makes high CRI at low lighting levels a curiosity but not a necessity. I could add in that at low levels, we tend to prefer warmer colors, which further throws your discrimination of blues out the window if followed.

I expect Yuji will just get an existing flashlight supplier to put their emitter in it and slap their name on it with perhaps a few UI tweaks, so development cost is likely to be low. There are likely people who will get pulled in by the high-cri whether there is a good objective reason to or not to cover the development. That said, serious lighting customers will wonder "why" they would go down this avenue unless it is purely for giveaways.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 22, 2017)

Guessing that distributors are not so interested in these Yuji LED's, thinking that demand is not strong enough, and so Yuji is making an effort to make their product known through us.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 22, 2017)

Let's hear an update from Daniel.


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## neutralwhite (Aug 10, 2017)

Got this reply from Yuji;

In fact, we are recently facing some problems in producing flash lights.

Our LEDs do not have lens on the surface.







KITROBASKIN said:


> Let's hear an update from Daniel.


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## KITROBASKIN (Aug 10, 2017)

Thank You for providing that information!

(neutralwhite: your mailbox is full)


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## neutralwhite (Aug 11, 2017)

Cleared thanks.




KITROBASKIN said:


> Thank You for providing that information!
> 
> (neutralwhite: your mailbox is full)


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## Keitho (Aug 11, 2017)

People obviously have opinions all over the map. If Yuji wants the largest possible appeal on one light, make it easy for opinionated flashaholics to change on their own: optics, battery tube, switches, and driver programming. If Yuji sells their high CRI LED on a thick multi-LED board with a good open source driver and multiple options for battery sizes, inside of a decent host, there will be lots of sales to the general public, modders, and collectors. The host should have more heat sinking than the D4 to allow for some massive heat off of the high-CRI LED. A solid copper head might be really cool-looking and effective...


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## iamlucky13 (Aug 11, 2017)

neutralwhite said:


> Got this reply from Yuji;
> 
> In fact, we are recently facing some problems in producing flash lights.
> 
> Our LEDs do not have lens on the surface.



Curious. When I look at their datasheet for the 3030 series, the spatial distribution graph looks almost identical to an XP-L HI, as I suspected it might. I actually quickly overlayed the two in an image editor, and once scaled the same, the lines overlapped for a lot of the graph.

Granted, the emitting surface is smaller than that of an XP-L HI, but I kind of expected it would still work fairly well in a small reflector.


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## ssanasisredna (Aug 12, 2017)

Keitho said:


> People obviously have opinions all over the map. If Yuji wants the largest possible appeal on one light, make it easy for opinionated flashaholics to change on their own: optics, battery tube, switches, and driver programming. If Yuji sells their high CRI LED on a thick multi-LED board with a good open source driver and multiple options for battery sizes, inside of a decent host, there will be lots of sales to the general public, modders, and collectors. The host should have more heat sinking than the D4 to allow for some massive heat off of the high-CRI LED. A solid copper head might be really cool-looking and effective...



Is "lots" more or less than 1000? General public for the most part wants lumens, and 90CRI is more than good enough, and more lumens is often better. Modders and collectors? ... that is not going to even get a business started let alone sustain one.


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## ssanasisredna (Aug 12, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> Curious. When I look at their datasheet for the 3030 series, the spatial distribution graph looks almost identical to an XP-L HI, as I suspected it might. I actually quickly overlayed the two in an image editor, and once scaled the same, the lines overlapped for a lot of the graph.
> 
> Granted, the emitting surface is smaller than that of an XP-L HI, but I kind of expected it would still work fairly well in a small reflector.



Could be a near field / far field issue. Far field they are the same, near field, where an optic would come into play, they could be different.


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## neutralwhite (Aug 18, 2017)

Any update from Yuji now ?.


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