# detailed review: surefire u2



## cheapo (Aug 15, 2006)

Surefires u2 ultra: http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/0/prrfnbr/24187

My experiences with the U2: I bought the surefire u2 as a camping light, and I am sure glad I did. This light is a beast. The 6 levels are so useful. On my campout, it put up a wall of light, but also had enough throw to illuminate things at a far distance. I usually keep mine on the lowest setting, due the long runtime. The low setting puts out enough light to accomplish a number of tasks. My first set of batteries lasted nearly the entire campout… I think it was 3 or 4 days. When the batteries were low, the u2s level six appeared about as bright as level 5, and then a few seconds passed, and it dimmed down to the lowest setting. While the lockout tailcap is useful, I never found myself using it, for the U2’s tailcap does require quite a bit of force to activate it. Now that I am done camping, I expect my batteries to last me probably 1 month. The low settings do such a great job at conserving the battery’s supply.

Surefire u2 ultra came out in 2004.... it is a 6 stage luxeon 5 light. It uses two cr123 batteries. Surefire does in fact suggest one to use Surefire batteries, or at least American made batteries. All six stages are digitally regulated to keep it bright as long as possible. There is a dial behind the head in order to switch stages of output. There is one magnet which is inside the dial. Inside the bezel there are several Hall Effects sensors (three I believe) that are used to detect the position of the dial. The dial doesnt have any markings on it, so one has to take a guess at which setting the U2 is set at. The dial is silent, there is no noise made when changing levels. The U2 ultra has a slightly domed lens and small crenulations in the bezel, which help one to know whether or not the flashlight is on when set on a table bezel down. The u2 ultra comes with a tactical clicky tailcap; press it softly to turn it on momentarily, then press more, and you will hear a click. You can let go of the switch, and the light will remain on. You can lock the tailcap by simply twisting it counter-clockwize.... some people have reported problems with the tailcap, but mostly, all one has to do is pull the three or four tabs at the bottom of the inside of the tailcap upwards, and it will work like a charm. The earlier u2s came with 3 tabs at the bottom of the inside of the tailcap, and the newer versions (~#A08 and up) have four tabs. Also, some have reported problems with some unlubricated tailcaps. Here is a link that teaches one how to fix the clicky, lubricate the tailcap, and take off the clip:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/102626

The origional U2s came with a wider battery tube than the current version, and therefore, it could fit protected 18650s. Then the battery tube was revised, and it came with a plastic insert inside, which was glued in, however some have taken it out in order to use 18650s. You can take it out by setting the battery tube in the freezer for 30 minutes… then, just put your pinky in it and pull the plastic insert out. The second revision (newest) has a thinner battery tube, which is 17.2mm (i think).... this new tube will not accept 18650s, however it will accept 17670s or pila 168s (both have same capacity). 18650s will decrease brightness by 10%, but will increase the runtime substantially. The U2s circuitry protects li-ons, so cheap, high capacity, unprotected 18650s will work just fine. The output on 17670s or pila 168s will also be about 10% less than on primaries. Surefire doesn’t advise one to use rechargeable batteries, and doing so voids the warranty. Runtime on 18650s can be found here:

2200mah: http://www.cones-stuff.co.uk/Surefire U2.htm

2400mah: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=128188

runtime on normal 123s and Pila 168s (17670) can be found here:

http://www.obaq.tv/cpf/?page=SureFire_U2

operation: To operate the U2, insert two cr123 batteries OF THE SAME BRAND, twist the tailcap clockwise until it stops, and simply push down the clicky tailcap, and the light will turn on. Then turn the dial underneath the head to switch brightness settings. I personally have my right hand’s thumb on the button, and then switch levels with my left hand. You can switch levels and hold the light with the same hand, but it is rather difficult.

Build: The U2 is 6.13in long. It is made from aerospace grade aluminum with type 3 anodized finish. The flashlight is black…. Some prefer to have NAT HA3, because it is a little stronger, but I like how the black looks. There may be some anodizing mismatches, but that is normal with the HA3 process, due to HA being a growth onto the aluminum (ha3 is aluminum oxide). The U2 is o-ring sealed at all the right places. I have tested it, and it allowed no water into the battery tube in the conditions I had subjected it to- I actually had my u2 on my belt while swimming in a river for hours... and no water got through, however this depends on the condition of the o-rings... remember to lube your orings! The U2 ultra comes with a stainless steel clip with a black button at the end that may or may not make contact with the flashlight (mine does). It is a bezel down clip (when clipped to pocket, the bezel is pointing down in your pocket). The clip is very sturdy, and keeps the flashlight nice and secure to whatever you may clip it to. The black button on mine has slid up and down the clip, so i simply super-glued it on. You can remove the clip in order to make it holster-compatible. Simply take off the tailcap, and pushing the plastic ring that the clip sits on back toward the end of the light. When that is done, you should be able to take the clip out. The U2 has knurling on the tailap and on parts of the body for grip. The diameter of the body is 1in, and of the head is 1.47in. It weighs only 5.9 oz. The surefire u2 has a slightly domed tempered pyrex window with AR coating, which is very resistant to scratching. The lens is slightly domed in order to help it withstand impact without shattering. The U2 cannot stand on its end for candle mode. I have been EDCing mine for the past few weeks, and I hardly noticed it in my pocket. 

Beam: The Surefire U2 has a lux5 at the bottom of a very deep, lightly stippled reflector, and as a result, the beam isnt very wide, but it has bright spill, and good throw. Tints on the U2s will vary, due to the luxeon lottery, however, the majority of them will appear to have white tints. When shining the u2 at a wall at close range ( less than 1 ft) there will most likely be an x-shape in the beam. Most of the U2s will suffer from a donut hole (a lightless hole in the middle of the center beam). Mine has a rather noticeable donut, but it doesn’t make a very noticeable difference in outdoor use. When beaming it at a whitewall, however it will be noticeable. To me, however, the donut isn’t a very big issue. The u2 is a great camping light, because it puts out a wall of light, as well as good throw.

Output: When the U2 first came out, Surefire advertised it to have 100 lumens. They then brought the rating down to 80, and just recently (2006), they brought it back up to 100. I would say the U2 is close to 80 lumens, but, depending on what bin of luxeon is in the U2, the output could vary. The settings go approximately like this (from lowest to highest): 3 lumens, 6 lumens, 12 lumens, 24 lumens, 48 lumens, and 80 lumens. The low setting is actually quite bright… maybe a little too bright. On the highest stage, it seams to put out about as much light as a surefire l2. Here is the current draw to the LED on each of the stages (from ledmuseum.org) : 

32mA – stage 1 (lowest)
63mA – stage 2
121mA –stage 3
258mA – stage 4
569mA – stage 5
1,374mA – stage 6 (highest)

accessories: The fm64 beamshaper will fit the u2’s bezel. A g2 tailcap will work on the u2, and the u2's tailcap will work on some other lights including the g2. Also, the sw02 will *sometimes* fit on the u2, but those will run you $60. There arent any lanyard systems available for the u2. According to surefire, the v21 holster will fit the u2, but very tightly..... there are many holsters on the web however that would fit the u2.

These holsters are said to fit the U2:

http://www.ripoffs.com/datasheets/co69/co69.html

http://www.ripoffs.com/datasheets/co181/co181.html


other reviews: 

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/surefire_u2.htm

http://ledmuseum.org/

http://www.obaq.tv/cpf/?page=SureFire_U2

http://www.imagometrics.com/FLReviews/FLR_SFU2.htm

http://www.jtice.com/review/lights/u2/

http://www.cones-stuff.co.uk/Surefire U2.htm

http://www.topratedadventures.com/newsletter/Product_Testing_Review_Oct05.htm

Other beamshots:

http://www.pbase.com/somynex/corridor

http://www.pbase.com/somynex/060101

sorry about my lack of pics... i am not a wiz at posting pics, and corkid left to college.

-David


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## MSI (Aug 15, 2006)

Bookmarked! :thumbsup:
I guess you should change your nick to something else now that you are not buying cheap lights anymore


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## jch79 (Aug 15, 2006)

Great all-around review for someone considering purchasing the light. The links will be very helpful for those who want to do their research before they decide to buy the light - which, if they do enough research, they'll end up with it! (Or at least I did).
Thanks David!
john


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## NoFair (Aug 15, 2006)

Nice writeup David!

One small thing; it will not over-discharge Li-ions so it is safe to use unprotected cells in it. Chevrofreak never got it to drain cells below 3 volts and that is higher than where most protection circuits kick in.
He also tested output on the different levels and found the lowest to be around 5 lumens.

So the only thing one need to think about when using Li-ions is having a decent charger.

PS! There is no way my U2 is only 80 lumens when compared to other lights


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## 4sevens (Aug 15, 2006)

Just a quick note... based on chevrofreak's runtimes HERE 

On bare li-ion LG 18650 2400mah's it runs roughly
1.5 hours level 6
3 hours level 5
6 hours level 4
12 hours level 3
24 hours level 2
2 days level 1

Each step doubles the runtime


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## Manzerick (Aug 15, 2006)

Awesome review!


Now back to that darn clickie!


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## Loomy (Aug 15, 2006)

NoFair said:


> So the only thing one need to think about when using Li-ions is having a decent charger.



I've read comments like this before but have only seen one charger for 18650s -- the DSD charger. Is there actually more than one?


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## greenLED (Aug 15, 2006)

There are more advanced ones, Loomy. The Triton comes to mind first.


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## Loomy (Aug 15, 2006)

greenLED said:


> There are more advanced ones, Loomy. The Triton comes to mind first.



When I google for 18650 li-ion chargers all I get are what appear to be DSD chargers. In a couple minutes of searching I actually found nothing else. So I'm guessing it is very common because it gets the job done sufficiently well.


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## greenLED (Aug 15, 2006)

Loomy, 18650 is just one of the many sizes of li-ion cells.

Cheapo, good post, BTW.


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## chevrofreak (Aug 15, 2006)

Loomy said:


> When I google for 18650 li-ion chargers all I get are what appear to be DSD chargers. In a couple minutes of searching I actually found nothing else. So I'm guessing it is very common because it gets the job done sufficiently well.


 

It works, but it's slow, and pretty much the only thing commercialy available.

Hint hint to MFG's.


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## Max Brightness (Aug 15, 2006)

Great post Cheapo! :rock: 

The U2 is on my list of flashlights to get next and I'll definitely refer back to this post.


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## lightrod (Aug 15, 2006)

:thanks: :goodjob:


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## Somy Nex (Aug 15, 2006)

excellent review =) nice to see it finally posted :thumbsup:


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## Ruockolt (Sep 3, 2006)

cheapo said:


> Surefires u2 ultra: http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/0/prrfnbr/24187
> Most of the U2s will suffer from a donut hole (a lightless hole in the middle of the center beam). Mine has a rather noticeable donut, but it doesn’t make a very noticeable difference in outdoor use. When beaming it at a whitewall, however it will be noticeable. To me, however, the donut isn’t a very big issue.
> -David



This seems odd to me since SureFire prides themselves on having "smooth, brilliant beams" and since all of my SureFires don't have this problem. Is it possible that this is just your light, in which case you should have SureFire replace it? :shrug: 

Awsome review though!


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## TheSteve (Sep 3, 2006)

Surefire has updated the tailcap clickie - if you look inside the tailcap you'll see the polymer plastic is now white on the updated model. It also has 4 spring body contacts instead of the original three.


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## NoFair (Sep 3, 2006)

Ruockolt said:


> This seems odd to me since SureFire prides themselves on having "smooth, brilliant beams" and since all of my SureFires don't have this problem. Is it possible that this is just your light, in which case you should have SureFire replace it? :shrug:
> 
> Awsome review though!



It is somewhat misleading to call it lightless, it is just that the center of the beam isn't quite as bright as the rest of the hotspot. It is usually only an issue when looking at white or cream coloured walls. With mine it is impossible to see when using the light outside.

The rest of the beam is perfect. The doughnut is caused by how the LuxeonV that is creating the light looks. Surefire have replace some lights where the doughtnut is very visible.

Sverre


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## cheapo (Sep 3, 2006)

i dont really mind the donut.... though it does cut down on throw. Either wayl, i like my u2 all the same.

-David


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## Sixpointone (Oct 24, 2006)

Excellent review David. I just saw it (and enjoyed it) now hence the late reply.


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## Flashdark (Nov 3, 2006)

*cheapo,*

Nice review. I bookmarked you for future info reference. 

Thanks again,
Flashdark sends.


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## Max Brightness (Nov 18, 2006)

Max Brightness said:


> Great post Cheapo! :rock:
> 
> The U2 is on my list of flashlights to get next and I'll definitely refer back to this post.


 
Cheapo, I just ordered the U2 and I enjoyed reading your review again. Thanks.


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## sims2k (Apr 14, 2007)

Thanks to this forum I will be ordering the U2 myself. Great review cheapo.


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## Kilovolt (Apr 14, 2007)

You will surely enjoy it... 


Even in a world full of Cree's and Seoul's U2 is still a great light !! :thumbsup:


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 27, 2010)

100 Lumen Max output? Does this accept P60 drop ins? Because I would love to invest $8 in an R5 drop in to triple the output of this light. Also, if it does accept P60 drop-ins, is the flashlight host regulating the current or is the P60 module regulating it? Basically what I'm asking here is if I where to put a P60 drop-in in the light, would it be regulated twice? Because the P60 drop in itself is regulated.


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## ninemm (Jun 27, 2010)

Sorry, p60 drop ins are not compatible with the u2 as far as I know.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 27, 2010)

SmurfTaculark, you have got to do some reading on the SF Lux V U2. LED, and reflector are integral with the head of the light, so nothing comes out like a SF 6P, so no drop in call be installed. This is an awesome light, and more like 120 lumens on high with two CR123's and most of them could be operated at full output with one 18650, which fit the original U2's. Six levels, about 6-120 lumens. Sort of has to be seen and used to be appreciated, and I will never ever sell mine, even though I have the latest Malkoff drop-in, thanks to BigHonu.

Bill


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 27, 2010)

So this light costs $250 and its max light putput is 100 lumens... :ironic:

I own a UltraFire 501b w/ an R5 and it is triple the output of this U2, but it is less than one tenth the cost... Am I missing something?


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## DimeRazorback (Jun 27, 2010)

You are missing a lot.


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 27, 2010)

I don't mean to be bashing on Surefire, but what are you paying $250 for? Why cant they use a higher end LED like an xpg?


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## Sgt. LED (Jun 27, 2010)

I guess they don't want to.

Mine on the other hand puts out 500 lumens, modded lights are so much fun.


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## DimeRazorback (Jun 27, 2010)

It was designed in 2004 with purposes in mind.

If they don't match your needs then move on.

At the least do some research on the light.

The selector ring that it uses isn't cheap technology. It is US made with a lifetime no hassels warranty. It has a proven track record so you can trust your life on it. They are solid, and basically bulletproof.

100 Lumens sounds like nothing, but in a real dark environment, it is more than enough.

You do get what you pay for. If you want bright and cheap then continue with ultrafires.
If you want quality, and well built products look elsewhere.

A lumen rating is not everything when it comes to lights.
They are tools, and are built with different purposes.

A 1000HP car wouldn't do well in mud.


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 28, 2010)

I respect your point and am still going to say that the least they could do is upgrade the LED to something that is more acceptable in todays standards. Maybe at the least a Q5. I mean C'mon, Fenix upgrades there old lights to todays modern LED's. like the Fenix LD20 used to come with a Q5, now it comes with an R5. Why can't SureFire do that? I don't mean to offend anyone, or upset a SureFire fan, Im asking legitimate questions. I'm not doubting SureFires impeccable reputation and quality, Im just confused to why they put a $250 price tag on a flashlight with an inefficient/obsolete LED.


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## Kestrel (Jun 28, 2010)

DimeRazorback said:


> You are missing a lot.


+1.



SmurfTacular said:


> I don't mean to be bashing on Surefire, but what are you paying $250 for?


There's plenty of troll threads that cover that question, feel free to search for them (there's lot to read) but I imagine that it's difficult to post in them - most of them are closed. Which is why you're in this thread? :duh2::duh2::duh2::duh2::duh2:


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## DimeRazorback (Jun 28, 2010)

SmurfTacular said:


> I respect your point and am still going to say that the least they could do is upgrade the LED to something that is more acceptable in todays standards. Maybe at the least a Q5. I mean C'mon, Fenix upgrades there old lights to todays modern LED's. like the Fenix LD20 used to come with a Q5, now it comes with an R5. Why can't SureFire do that? I don't mean to offend anyone, or upset a SureFire fan, Im asking legitimate questions. I'm not doubting SureFires impeccable reputation and quality, Im just confused to why they put a $250 price tag on a flashlight with an inefficient/obsolete LED.



Fenix likes to be on the "cutting edge" of new emitters, as do all of the chinese companies.
"Look here! This is the brightest LED on the market! Buy me! Buy me! Buy me! I'm bright!!!"

Surefire like to use tried and testing emitters that are known to be reliable.
I know what I would rather bet my life on.

I really suggest you do some research before you continue your "wise" advice to surefire and what they should do.

*They* know what they are doing. _You_ don't even understand why they do what they do.

I am really sick of people and this "latest is the greatest" attitude, in regards to emitters and lumen ratings.
If a light isn't bright enough for you, or doesn't run for long enough then either:

A) Get over it and move on or,
B) Get it modded.

It's funny that the most used mode on my $500 McGizmo is low.


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## ninemm (Jun 28, 2010)

DimeRazorback said:


> I am really sick of people and this "latest is the greatest" attitude, in regards to emitters and lumen ratings.
> If a light isn't bright enough for you, or doesn't run for long enough then either:
> 
> A) Get over it and move on or,
> B) Get it modded.



Well said. :thumbsup:


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 28, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> There's plenty of troll threads that cover that question, feel free to search for them (there's lot to read) but I imagine that it's difficult to post in them - most of them are closed. Which is why you're in this thread? :duh2::duh2::duh2::duh2::duh2:




Yeah I didn't mean to spark up an argument.




DimeRazorback said:


> Fenix likes to be on the "cutting edge" of new emitters, as do all of the chinese companies.
> "Look here! This is the brightest LED on the market! Buy me! Buy me! Buy me! I'm bright!!!"
> 
> Surefire like to use tried and testing emitters that are known to be reliable.
> ...



Hey man, as stated earlier I don't mean to upset anyone. Your a Surefire fan, I respect that. I don't want to further purse this dispute, on the grounds that it is in Cheapo's review thread, wich in fact is a very well done, thorough review on this product. Now I know not to waste me money on it.


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## prime77 (Jun 28, 2010)

The current U2 has to go under the category of underrated SF lumens. Light-reviews.com has it measured at 187 lumens. http://www.light-reviews.com/surefire_u2/. 

A great light is more than just an aluminum tube that shoots light out of one end. There are many things that make the U2 a great light. The quality of the beam. The sturdy pocket clip that works equally well on a belt. The amazing SF anodizing. And one of the best User Interfaces around. All of these factors add up to a great light. Throw into the fact that for the lifetime of the light if anything happens to it SF will fix it for free makes it almost perfect. 

I have been EDCing the Seoul P4 U2 for a while now it has to be way over 100 lumens. Here is a beamshot of it.


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 28, 2010)

prime77 said:


> I have been EDCing the Seoul P4 U2 for a while now it has to be way over 100 lumens. Here is a beamshot of it.



Woah, woah, woah... Are you telling me the LED used in the $250 SureFire U2 is a P4? Is that the LED described as relying on it with your life? Can't be... This is quality stuff here.


Another question I have is can protected 18650's fit inside the battery tube, or AW's? Because it seems as though the light is designed for 16340's, and protected 18650's are wider and longer than normal.


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## DimeRazorback (Jun 28, 2010)

What is wrong with a seoul P4?


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2010)

SmurfTacular said:


> So this light costs $250 and its max light putput is 100 lumens... :ironic:
> 
> I own a UltraFire 501b w/ an R5 and it is triple the output of this U2, but it is less than one tenth the cost... Am I missing something?



Yeah Surefire is one of the few (if any) flashlight manufacturers who actually conservatively rate the output of their products, unlike those that quote emitter maximum spec which can vary due to... 


circuit regulation
emitter bin (specification variance)
reflector design
lens quality/condition
thermal pathway efficiency
power source
 



SmurfTacular said:


> I don't mean to be bashing on Surefire, but what are you paying $250 for?




research and development (they don't *clone* other's designs)
superior after sales warranty & service
dependable quality machining fit & finish
excellent resale value (for collectors)




SmurfTacular said:


> Im just confused to why they put a $250 price tag on a flashlight with an inefficient/obsolete LED.



I'm not privy to Surefire OR Maglight's emitter policy but wouldn't you consider it possible they buy such items "in bulk" to achieve the best price-per-unit dollar return on their R&D investment? 




SmurfTacular said:


> Woah, woah, woah... Are you telling me the LED used in the $250 SureFire U2 is a P4? Is that the LED described as relying on it with your life? _Can't be... This is quality stuff here._



Your intended sarcasm is obvious, just what's wrong with the SSC P4?




SmurfTacular said:


> Another question I have is can protected 18650's fit inside the battery tube, or AW's? Because it seems as though the light is designed for 16340's, and protected 18650's are wider and longer than normal.



You already know the answer to this question *cough* baiting *cough* 


FWIW I'm not a Surefire fan, I'm a flashlight fan & whilst I have a fondness for the odd clone I don't think it's at all fair to use a copied design as the benchmark for the original product :thumbsup:


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 28, 2010)

Ok ok ok, you caught my sarcasm. :nana:

But I was being serious about the 18650 thing, because my friend has a Jetbeam that has a very similar twisting mode selector toward the bezel (with strobe and SOS). And his accepts 18650's and 16340's. And at first glance I thought he had the U2 until I realized that the U2 does not accept P60 drop ins to keep up with current technology. My friends Jetbeam does though, witch I think is a REALLY important feature in a flashlight. Because right when the R5 came out he just bought a new P60 and put it in. You have an instant flashlight upgrade for $10.

I'm a believer in buying really nice things that will last you a while. I thought the U2 was that thing I wanted to buy. But to be completely honest, i'm not sold on it because of the max lumen output. Im sure Surefire has exceptional host quality that isn't comparable, but until I see SureFire with a P60, accepts 18650's and has a twisty mode selector, Im not going to buy one. So for now, until I find "the perfect EDC" Im sticking with my 300 lumen UltraFire 501b and my 300 lumen Fenix LD20 WITCH I LOVE BTW. That ironically uses an American Cree LED. This situation seems to be inverted with SureFire.


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## DimeRazorback (Jun 28, 2010)

Ignorance is bliss, as they say.


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 28, 2010)

OK this has gotten out of hand. Now your name calling. I apologize for sparking this argument.


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## DimeRazorback (Jun 28, 2010)

I didn't call you any names mate.

If you display something, I am not at fault for stating the observation.

You can't sit around throwing ridiculous comments with obvious intentions when it pleases you, and then cry mercy when something is said describing your behaviour.


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm not crying for mercy. I stand by my point and opinions. You can call me "ignorant" all you want, I know Surefire makes good _hosts_, and thats it. How can you say you rely on Surefire to save your life when THEY STILL USE INCANDESCENT BULBS IN THERE LIGHTS, do you depend on a burning filament to save your live????? It can go out at any second. Oh, but R5's and R2's are unreliable.

I just feel bad for "cheapo" for destroying his Surefire review thread.




DimeRazorback said:


> What is wrong with a seoul P4?




Whats wrong with using R5 LED's? Because there expensive. And SureFire will do whatever it takes to save a penny or two.


On a positive note, I am considering getting the SureFire P6 though, because it is P60 compatible.


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## DimeRazorback (Jun 28, 2010)

You are now ridiculously off topic and making completely false assumptions on what it is I use, and what it is that SF do.

If I stated that I used an incandescent light for the purpose of life preservation then fair enough, but I have not done so.

"Assuming makes an *** of both you and me"

Once again, how do you know how well or not they do things if you do not in fact _own_ a SF light?
Refer to the above quote.

This great review has now been dragged way off track due to your blatent ignorance on the topic at hand, and your added arrogance to assume that you are always correct.

I will not be reading any further replies to this thread.


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2010)

SmurfTacular said:


> Ok ok ok, you caught my sarcasm. :nana:
> 
> But I was being serious about the 18650 thing, because my friend has a Jetbeam that has a very similar twisting mode selector toward the bezel (with strobe and SOS). And his accepts 18650's and 16340's. And at first glance I thought he had the U2 until I realized that the U2 does not accept P60 drop ins to keep up with current technology. My friends Jetbeam does though, witch I think is a REALLY important feature in a flashlight. Because right when the R5 came out he just bought a new P60 and put it in. You have an instant flashlight upgrade for $10.



Are you positive it's an actual Jetbeam? the Raptor series you describe (with the selector ring) has an emitter pill that doesn't look anything like a P60 (see image below), nor is P60 compatibility mentioned in any related review or on the manufacturers website 






_picture courtesy of AlexGT_

Further research reveals that Ultrafire has released Raptor clones which apparently MAY support some kind of modified P60 module format... 





SmurfTacular said:


> I'm a believer in buying really nice things that will last you a while. I thought the U2 was that thing I wanted to buy. But to be completely honest, i'm not sold on it because of the max lumen output. Im sure Surefire has exceptional host quality that isn't comparable, but until I see SureFire with a P60, accepts 18650's and has a twisty mode selector, Im not going to buy one.



Surefire doesn't currently support a rechargeable Lithium format (they do offer NiCD on selected lights) being primarily marketed towards Military/LEO end users who may not have access to chargers whilst "in field" hence the CR123a cell preference, you CAN opt to get your battery section bored out to accept 18mm cells though OR buy modified/aftermarket battery sections :devil:


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## SmurfTacular (Jun 28, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Are you positive it's an actual Jetbeam? the Raptor series you describe (with the selector ring) has an emitter pill that doesn't look anything like a P60 (see image below), nor is P60 compatibility mentioned in any related review or on the manufacturers website



I'm positive its a Jetbeam, Im positive mode selection is made using a dial toward the bezel, and I'm positive it takes a single 18650 cell. But now that you mention it, I'm not to sure about the P60 thing anymore. But I do know it uses an R2.


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## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Jun 28, 2010)

SmurfTacular said:


> Whats wrong with using R5 LED's? Because there expensive. And SureFire will do whatever it takes to save a penny or two.



There isn't much of a price difference between R5 LEDs and lower bins. Whether a business chooses to use the "latest and greatest" bins or not is more to do with their inventory strategy. It seems that SF designs its lights around a particular LED and buys its emitters in bulk, whereas some of the smaller Chinese manufacturers appear to use a "just in time" strategy to ensure their lights always have the newest bins. 

I'm not someone who is concerned with having the latest LEDs in my lights for brightness' sake and I think SF lights have other merits that separate them from those of other manufacturers.


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## jimmy1970 (Jun 28, 2010)

You can't really fault the U2 as not being bright enough when you consider the extended runtime that is offered by this light even in high mode. Another thing to consider is the large and very deep reflector of the U2. Whilst the overall beam width is a little narrow, the throw this light offers is fantastic - very similar to my Malkoff M60 (U2A P4). The size of the heat sink is huge too so no huge output drops with extended running.

Before you order your 'P6', do some actual research and order a '6P' instead!

Question - Have you actually owned of tested any Surefire product? Do some research and then come back to us - it wouldn't be the first time someone has and come back and said "Now I get it!!!"


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## Bullzeyebill (Jun 28, 2010)

SmurfTacular said:


> I just feel bad for "cheapo" for destroying his Surefire review thread.



Yes, but not bad enough to bow out of this venerable thread. Your off topic comments are not welcome, and one members has, in effect, unsubscribed from this thread due to your attitude.

Bill


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## Kestrel (Jun 28, 2010)

+1, ST bumped a thread that hadn't had a post for *over three years* just to troll it. Maybe that wasn't his original intention, but that was the result.


Edit: *Each* of the quotes below were from different posts in this thread:



SmurfTacular said:


> I don't mean to be bashing on Surefire, but what are you paying $250 for? Why cant they use a higher end LED like an xpg?


 


SmurfTacular said:


> Im just confused to why they put a $250 price tag on a flashlight with an inefficient/obsolete LED.


 


SmurfTacular said:


> Woah, woah, woah... Are you telling me the LED used in the $250 SureFire U2 is a P4? Is that the LED described as relying on it with your life? Can't be... This is quality stuff here.


 


SmurfTacular said:


> But to be completely honest, i'm not sold on it because of the max lumen output. Im sure Surefire has exceptional host quality that isn't comparable, but until I see SureFire with a P60, accepts 18650's and has a twisty mode selector, Im not going to buy one.


 


SmurfTacular said:


> I know Surefire makes good _hosts_, and thats it. How can you say you rely on Surefire to save your life when THEY STILL USE INCANDESCENT BULBS IN THERE LIGHTS, do you depend on a burning filament to save your live?????
> [...]
> And SureFire will do whatever it takes to save a penny or two.


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## Justin Case (Jun 28, 2010)

Comparison of various selector ring flashlights, including a JetBeam RRT-0 Raptor and a SureFire U2.

Note the mode delay with the JetBeam. Maybe it's not a big deal for some, but for me if I want Max mode, I want it right now. Not a fraction of a second later.

Max lumens is all well and good. But how those lumens are distributed, i.e., the beam pattern, is also very important. The JetBeam's beam is described as very ringy and with a donut hole. My U2A has an excellent beam -- smooth, with a bright hot spot. No beam anomalies.

As for the U2/U2A's high retail price -- who pays retail? At a min, you can get significant savings from certain online dealers that offer CPF discounts. If you buy from the Marketplace, as I did, you can often find U2s and U2As for about 1/2 price.

SureFire certainly could use an XP-G in the U2A (they would have had to use something like a 2S2P MC-E to upgrade the original U2), but perhaps they want to design a purpose-built reflector to match that LED. Such a reflector might have the desirable property where the bottom surface of the reflector mechanically constrains the LED from falling out. Of course, one can mod the U2A and replace the Seoul P4 with an XP-G. I've done it here. But the XP-G will be held in place only by the thermal glue (I used AA epoxy) and perhaps the friction between the XP-G's MCPCB and the heat sink's centering ribs. For most, that should be enough. It does seem hard to imagine that such a light weight object could generate enough inertia to break loose from the thermal epoxy. But perhaps stranger things have happened in SF's experience. Thus, having the bottom face of the reflector sitting on top of the XP-G ensures that the LED isn't going anywhere.

What's wrong with incandescents? Hotwires typically have far superior color rendition vs LEDs, and that can be a life saver. Nothing forces the buyer to get a hotwire if he favors the ruggedness of a solid state LED, just as nothing forces the buyer to get an LED if he favors the high CRI of a hotwire. And yes, there are high CRI LEDs. But I'm not aware of one from SureFire.

Different companies have different design goals and customer bases. It seems SF is moving away from swappable, drop-in lamp modules. I personally like the drop-in design. But if some light doesn't offer that feature, the end user has the free choice to buy or not buy it. Plenty of folks have bought non-drop-in lights like Fenix and SureFire L4s and the follow-on variants. And plenty have bought drop-in style lights like the SF 6P.

I personally think the U2A is a great light and it is my EDC light.


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## DM51 (Jun 28, 2010)

SmurfTacular said:


> Am I missing something?


You appear to have missed a whole lot of things, as other members have pointed out. 

The first and most obvious is the fact that you resurrected an OLD review thread. Failing to realise how old it was, you decided to berate the product for containing what you considered to be an obsolete emitter. You might possibly have had a point if the product had been a newly-released one, but it is not.

You then went on to ignore things that other members pointed out to you, and expanded your argument into a general rant against the manufacturer and its products, displaying a depth of misunderstanding of them that makes your lack of knowledge painfully obvious to readers. 

You haven't been a member for very long, but your post count is approaching 500 and I think you must by now be aware of what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. Your 10 posts in this thread have come so close to actually trolling that that has been their effect.

However, I don't actually think you are a troll. I've seen your contributions around the forum, and although you occasionally blunder into things with insufficient thought, as here, I have not so far detected any malicious content in your output. You have even apologized here a couple of times, and while disclaimers such as "I don't mean to be bashing" are in almost all cases an unconvincing prelude to the behavior concerned, your posts here have really just been monumentally clumsy and ill-judged, rather than anything worse.

You have come very, very close to being suspended for your behavior here. Please think about that very carefully indeed. You will not receive any further warning, and if it happens again, you WILL be suspended. 

I suspect that in a few months' time, if you come back and re-read this thread and your part in it, you will find yourself cringing with embarrassment that you could have made such an extraordinary series of error-strewn posts.

I'll close the thread now.


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