# Good old classic Surefire A2



## teak (Mar 15, 2016)

Since the wind has been let out if the sails on the A2 these days I thought I would start a topic just to keep it going. It's still one of my favorites and I am not happy that surefire discontinued making MA02s. Lumens factory is still making them but they are so inconsistent with working reliably I personally don't even consider them an option, or atleast used to not..lol. I am going to start purchasing a bunch if MA02s before they dry up altogether. I sure wish now I would have bought more if them when they were readily available.


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## Minimoog (Mar 15, 2016)

teak said:


> Since the wind has been let out if the sails on the A2 these days I thought I would start a topic just to keep it going. It's still one of my favorites and I am not happy that surefire discontinued making MA02s. Lumens factory is still making them but they are so inconsistent with working reliably I personally don't even consider them an option, or atleast used to not..lol. I am going to start purchasing a bunch if MA02s before they dry up altogether. I sure wish now I would have bought more if them when they were readily available.



I really loved the A2. One thing I did do was change the LED's to 'warm white' which were almost the same tint at the bulb. What I like about it is the UI (two stage press) and the whole feel of the light. Mine are all 'four flats' versions. What do SureFire say when you ask them for a bulb I wonder? It seems a bit recent to be no longer supported to me. I bought some bulbs at the same time as my lights, but only one spare left now.


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## teak (Mar 15, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> I really loved the A2. One thing I did do was change the LED's to 'warm white' which were almost the same tint at the bulb. What I like about it is the UI (two stage press) and the whole feel of the light. Mine are all 'four flats' versions. What do SureFire say when you ask them for a bulb I wonder? It seems a bit recent to be no longer supported to me. I bought some bulbs at the same time as my lights, but only one spare left now.



Mine all have koala rings as well. I'm not sure what surefire says about the lamps. I haven't personally called them and asked. I think I will though. They do not offer them on their website anymore. There is a few places that has them in stock but who knows for how long.


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## Minimoog (Mar 15, 2016)

teak said:


> Mine all have koala rings as well. I'm not sure what surefire says about the lamps. I haven't personally called them and asked. I think I will though. They do not offer them on their website anymore. There is a few places that has them in stock but who knows for how long.



If you do call I would be very interested to know what they say. There must be some kind of support in place, even if it just a discount on a new light.


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## m4a1usr (Mar 15, 2016)

The availability of the MA02 is definitely a concern however the lamp assy has an NSN assigned to it which makes me think somewhere there's a stash stowed away. Maybe in some dark, hidden away, long forgotten location but to be discovered one day. Well at least that's what I'm hoping.

:santa:


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## teak (Mar 15, 2016)

m4a1usr said:


> The availability of the MA02 is definitely a concern however the lamp assy has an NSN assigned to it which makes me think somewhere there's a stash stowed away. Maybe in some dark, hidden away, long forgotten location but to be discovered one day. Well at least that's what I'm hoping.
> 
> :santa:



Yes I do hope that is the case. Until then we probably should buy atleast 10 to have on hand if we want to continue using these things in years to come..lol


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## teak (Mar 16, 2016)

Guess everything that can be said about the a2 has already been said years ago. Lol..they've all been sold off and put away!


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 16, 2016)

Wow - was surprised to read this thread. I didn't realize the MA02 has been discontinued. After reading this and having a browse around the web I see that it's now out of stock most everywhere. I have a few bulbs but I'll have to keep my eyes out for any sales. 

I don't use mine too often so I don't foresee a long term problem with bulbs but always good to have some spares.


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## teak (Mar 16, 2016)

Yes. They show out of stock most places, as you found out. Lumens factory still makes thier bulb, but as I stated in a previous post they are so inconsistent that one may work in a particular a2 and it may not. I recently received a new a2 white and it came with an extra lumens factory lamp. It wouldn't work in any of my a2s but I could get it to light when testing. I've had that problem in the past so I always stayed away from them. Lumens factory tells you to put a piece of foil on the contact so it will make contact and work..I used to solder a small bead on the lamp but honestly I shouldn't have to mess with them to get them to work, so another reason to not use them..they did say they would send me a replacement but I never heard anything back after a follow up email on my end. I'll just keep an eye out for ma02s. I still haven't called surefire yet and gave them my concern.


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## m4a1usr (Mar 16, 2016)

teak said:


> Guess everything that can be said about the a2 has already been said years ago. Lol..they've all been sold off and put away!



Not sure if folks use bookmarks anymore but if you want the "Definitive/ cover all bases" on the SF A2 save this guy. But I warn you. You can lose your train of thought grazing thru all of the links/ lessons guys have passed along. And a big THANK YOU to Daniel for spending the time to compile this info. Should be a sticky. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?199396-The-SureFire-A2-Thread-Index


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## Kestrel (Mar 16, 2016)

Not a big A2 fan (my interests took me in a different direction), but IMO one of the brilliant design aspects of that light was to combine a 'throwy' main beam with a 'floody' secondary output.

Which is why I have never been able to explain the design of its "replacement" A2L - going to a *floody* primary LED configuration and that bluish SSC P4.


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## bykfixer (Mar 16, 2016)

m4a1usr said:


> Not sure if folks use bookmarks anymore but if you want the "Definitive/ cover all bases" on the SF A2 save this guy. But I warn you. You can lose your train of thought grazing thru all of the links/ lessons guys have passed along. And a big THANK YOU to Daniel for spending the time to compile this info. Should be a sticky. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?199396-The-SureFire-A2-Thread-Index



Any way to merge it with the SF history thread?


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## archimedes (Mar 16, 2016)

A2 is one of my favorites.

Fortunately, the soft-start helps preserve the lamps, but I hope replacements or alternatives somehow stay available.

Still nothing like an A2 out there ....


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## teak (Mar 17, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Any way to merge it with the SF history thread?



Yes. I've read through most of those in the past! Great info there and thanks for bringing it back up!


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## teak (Mar 18, 2016)

So who outbid me 50 cents on the ma02 on the bay?.. lmao. It's been many years since I've bid on anything over there. Lol


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## wolfstyle (Mar 18, 2016)

teak said:


> So who outbid me 50 cents on the ma02 on the bay?.. lmao. It's been many years since I've bid on anything over there. Lol



Wasn't me, but I was watching that one. The ad says they have more available. Maybe worth reaching out to them if you need one.


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## m4a1usr (Mar 18, 2016)

teak said:


> So who outbid me 50 cents on the ma02 on the bay?.. lmao. It's been many years since I've bid on anything over there. Lol



Wasn't me. I made the second bid but decided to take the sideline and see where the bid topped out. Besides you guys got me thinking about a making a version with replaceable bulbs. And after studying the LF brass base I can see host potential for a bi-pin holder. It looks pretty simple to me. Just need to buy a series of bulbs that have the correct physical and electrical properties and the rest is easy.


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## wolfstyle (Mar 18, 2016)

If you weren't aware member Fivemega has made bi-pin adapter in the past that uses Streamlight Strion bulbs. Not currently available but could give you some ideas.


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## teak (Mar 18, 2016)

Yes I have thought about that myself. The LF brass may be a good start!


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 18, 2016)

teak said:


> So who outbid me 50 cents on the ma02 on the bay?.. lmao. It's been many years since I've bid on anything over there. Lol



Ha! I was watching that one as well. It was only $3 this morning and I thought maybe I had a chance to grab it for under $10. Then I got busy at work and completely forgot until you posted this message. I guess I'm not surprised it ended selling for over $16.

I would say if you're really concerned about bulbs get yourself a Strion kit. Maybe a bit hard to find but persistence will pay off - there's got to be over 200 of them floating around the CPF herd. Strion bulbs are cheap and plentiful and you'll have a lifetime of even higher CCT goodness than the stock bulb.

Makes me want to try and run a test on a brand new Strion bulb and see how long it takes before it burns out. I was looking through some of the other A2 threads and found the one asking about who actually had to replace a bulb on there A2. Seems almost no one has ever had a bulb go on them - most replaced it because of dimming because of the tungsten deposits on the inside of the bulb. I remember this issue with my old 2xAA MiniMag back when that was the only light I had and used it all the time. Even with that I don't remember going through more than 2 or 3 bulbs over a 10 year period.


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## m4a1usr (Mar 18, 2016)

wolfstyle said:


> If you weren't aware member Fivemega has made bi-pin adapter in the past that uses Streamlight Strion bulbs. Not currently available but could give you some ideas.



Pretty much have been admiring them now for a couple years. But the price on the used ones hovering in the used markets are cost prohibitive. Besides I like a challenge.
:thinking:


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## teak (Mar 18, 2016)

Yes the price on that MA02 went for $16.50, I bid at $16.. LOL I figured it would go for more, but to loose by 50 cents is just plain funny. 

I have 2 other A2's. A 4 sided and 2 later models. For 3 total. All are on the original bulb, including the 4 sided one. Both have Koala rings, and none have bi pin adapters. I think its time for someone else to make a run of bi pin adapters. I believe they would sell out in no time.


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## teak (Mar 18, 2016)

Oh, and Lumens factory is sending me another HO-A2. Maybe it will work. lol


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## Striker27 (Mar 30, 2016)

Where can one get bulbs? I checked the Lumens Factory but did not see the MA02
thanks


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## teak (Mar 30, 2016)

Striker27 said:


> Where can one get bulbs? I checked the Lumens Factory but did not see the MA02
> thanks



Lumens factory sells their HO-A2 only. You will have to search for the MA02. They can be found if you look around, no one knows for how long though. The lumens factory work good, only issue is they can be inconsistent on which a2 they will work in. I just received my replacement from lumens factory the other day it it works just fine. They are worth trying atleast.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 30, 2016)

LF has always seemed to have good bulbs but I've always had a bit of a problem with the glass getting dark faster than the genuine SF bulbs. I haven't experienced this directly with the HO-A2 bulb but have with their P60/P90 drop-ins and the M3/M6 bulbs.


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## teak (Mar 30, 2016)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> LF has always seemed to have good bulbs but I've always had a bit of a problem with the glass getting dark faster than the genuine SF bulbs. I haven't experienced this directly with the HO-A2 bulb but have with their P60/P90 drop-ins and the M3/M6 bulbs.



Yes. I never had one issue with the e series bulbs or the p60 bulbs they have, just the a2 bulbs.


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## SolarMan (Mar 30, 2016)

Say it ain't so! Good lord I have sold all my surefire except for my A2 and my E1L (my first that started the addiction). The A2 is by FAR my favorite light that I have ever owned.

UGH!!!

Guess I'll take the gamble on the Lumens Factory bulb.

AGGH!


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## SolarMan (Mar 30, 2016)




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## teak (Mar 30, 2016)

Yes. The gamble is worth it on the lumens factory bulb. More then likely you will get a good one that works just fine. And since that is our only option, guess we'll be picking up a bunch. Lol. Btw. Is yours a green or is that a yellow green? Looks like straight green but hard to tell.


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## Lucky Jim (Mar 31, 2016)

Why did I have to read this thread? You've all got me worried now so I have ordered 2 spare MA02 bulbs while they're still available - at UK prices of $34 each. Ouch! I seem to remember reading on the Lumens Factory website that their bulbs may not work with the older4 flats A2s - so I thought I'd better stock up with the originals. Nice to see the A2 back in the forum threads.


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## SolarMan (Mar 31, 2016)

That is the Yellow Green. Full color rendition on aviation maps.

Love it.

Eric


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## teak (Mar 31, 2016)

SolarMan said:


> That is the Yellow Green. Full color rendition on aviation maps.
> 
> Love it.
> 
> Eric



Very nice. That's one version of the a2 I have never owned..


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## teak (Mar 31, 2016)

Lucky Jim said:


> Why did I have to read this thread? You've all got me worried now so I have ordered 2 spare MA02 bulbs while they're still available - at UK prices of $34 each. Ouch! I seem to remember reading on the Lumens Factory website that their bulbs may not work with the older4 flats A2s - so I thought I'd better stock up with the originals. Nice to see the A2 back in the forum threads.



Was that the only place you were able to find them?


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## Minimoog (Mar 31, 2016)

Lumens Factory A2 bulb works absolutely fine with my 4 flats lights - if anything the beam is better than with the SF bulb. I too am pleased to see the A2 being discussed. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i2u4c92vtbv21l6/20160331_234725.jpg?dl=0


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## teak (Mar 31, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> Lumens Factory A2 bulb works absolutely fine with my 4 flats lights - if anything the beam is better than with the SF bulb. I too am pleased to see the A2 being discussed.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/i2u4c92vtbv21l6/20160331_234725.jpg?dl=0



Nice. Yes I will agree the beam tends to be better with the lumens factory bulbs. It is a little brighter as well..


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## Lucky Jim (Apr 2, 2016)

That is good to hear about the Lumens Factory bulbs. My MA02 order arrived - but it turns out that they only had one left - so I shall keep it in reserve and order a couple of Lumens Factory bulbs to top up my stores.


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## aaronu (Apr 12, 2016)

I found MA02's at Kiesub electronics but they ain't exactly giving them away (almost $30 with U.S. shipping)


The only one I saw on EvilBay was $49.95. Maybe that's the person who got one for $16.50...


FWIW I bought my four-flat HA III A2 in green when they were first out. I've used it ever since. It is on its first bulb.


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## cland72 (Apr 18, 2016)

I have an A2-YG on duty every night when I go to bed. I purchased it in like new condition about a year ago, and just this past weekend my first set of batteries finally drained to the point where the main beam had reduced output. I'm sure I have plenty of life left on the stock bulb, but I picked up a spare MA02 for $10.95 shipped on Amazon back in January. Alas the seller is out of stock now.


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## xdayv (Apr 18, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> Lumens Factory A2 bulb works absolutely fine with my 4 flats lights - if anything the beam is better than with the SF bulb. I too am pleased to see the A2 being discussed.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/i2u4c92vtbv21l6/20160331_234725.jpg?dl=0




Hi... am i looking at the right item @ Lumens Factory? (for 4-flats A2)


Model No.
:HO-A2 (6V, 120 Lumens) High Output Lamp Assembly (Unfrosted)



because down at the bottom it says...


***This is ONLY compatible with the round body A2***
***This is NOT compatible with old model (4 flat side) body A2.***

***You will NOT be refunded and NO returns will be accepted if you have the old model (4 flat side) body A2 and it doesn't work.***


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## Ahshan (Apr 21, 2016)

I spoke with them yesterday. They insisted they do not have anymore stock, never intend to manufacture them again, and in the case we're unable to find replacement bulbs we will be SOL. So much for a lifetime guarantee.

The rep seemed less than motivated to help me locate a replacement bulb for my A2 through other sources, beyond suggesting trying "online retailers" (mind you, I even notified him the retailers he suggested were already sold out).

This is a testament to an organization going under-water. I don't expect as much continued support from SF as they probably did continued revenue.

To hell with their corporation; they should've cut their pockets before cutting the engineers of their "old" lights, and before implementing plastic optics, lumen-chasing LED's, and smooth no-knurled bodies.



teak said:


> Mine all have koala rings as well. I'm not sure what surefire says about the lamps. I haven't personally called them and asked. I think I will though. They do not offer them on their website anymore. There is a few places that has them in stock but who knows for how long.


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## cland72 (Apr 21, 2016)

Ahshan said:


> I spoke with them yesterday. They insisted they do not have anymore stock, never intend to manufacture them again, and in the case we're unable to find replacement bulbs we will be SOL. So much for a lifetime guarantee.
> 
> The rep seemed less than motivated to help me locate a replacement bulb for my A2 through other sources, beyond suggesting trying "online retailers" (mind you, I even notified him the retailers he suggested were already sold out).
> 
> ...



I understand why you'd be upset, but consider this: US law requires auto manufacturers to provide replacement parts on any model they make for 10 years. Surefire discontinued the A2 sometime around 2009 when they introduced the A2L. That means that they've supplied replacement parts for 7 years on a light they no longer made. I'd count your blessings and be thankful that Lumens Factory still makes a somewhat viable alternative for a light that hasn't been in production in nearly a decade.


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## Ahshan (Apr 21, 2016)

cland72 said:


> I understand why you'd be upset, but consider this: US law requires auto manufacturers to provide replacement parts on any model they make for 10 years. Surefire discontinued the A2 sometime around 2009 when they introduced the A2L. That means that they've supplied replacement parts for 7 years on a light they no longer made. I'd count your blessings and be thankful that Lumens Factory still makes a somewhat viable alternative for a light that hasn't been in production in nearly a decade.



The overhead of producing and storing auto-parts is incomparable to flashlight parts, let alone light bulbs. The auto-industry does not guarantee their products for life. Planned-obsolescency.

I didn't spend hundreds of dollars over other flashlights for nothing.

Anyway, I wonder if I can manipulate Strion bulbs into the HO-A2 or MA-02 housings, since the FM kits are unavailable.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Apr 21, 2016)

You may want to re-read SF's warranty: http://www.surefire.com/warranty

The warranty does not cover consumables, ie: light bulbs.


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## Ahshan (Apr 21, 2016)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> You may want to re-read SF's warranty: http://www.surefire.com/warranty
> 
> The warranty does not cover consumables, ie: light bulbs.



Well, I'll be damned.


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## Str8stroke (Apr 21, 2016)

Lumens Factory! I have their bulbs in all my A2's and love them. 

BTW: Where are you located? IE: USA??


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Apr 21, 2016)

Ahshan said:


> Well, I'll be damned.



Yeah, it's a bummer. But you gotta figure at some point after they discontinue a light the cost of keeping bulb inventory (ie: stocking, inventory, tracking, etc) becomes greater than the actual sales benefit.


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## Sean (Apr 21, 2016)

I've seen A2 genuine bulbs on eBay. So it's not like they are impossible to get.


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## bykfixer (Apr 21, 2016)

Sean said:


> I've seen A2 genuine bulbs on eBay. So it's not like they are impossible to get.



Off topic:
Do you know your membership # Sean? Looks like you have been here a long, long time.

Btt: 
The A2 was/is a great flashlight.


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## cland72 (Apr 21, 2016)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> You may want to re-read SF's warranty: http://www.surefire.com/warranty
> 
> The warranty does not cover consumables, ie: light bulbs.



Just thinking out loud here: if the bulb burns out on your A2, and you are unable to source a replacement, does that mean Surefire should replace the A2 with an A2L to properly service the light? In other words, if the light quits working, and they can't help you get it running again, does that constitute a failure of the light?


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## Lucky Jim (Apr 21, 2016)

UK suppliers all look like they're now out of stock for MA02 bulbs - so I've decided to stock up on Lumens Factory replacements for my 2 round bodies A2s, take out my existing Surefire MA02 bulbs (all of which have very low run times at present) and keep them for my one 4 flats A2. That should see me out.


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## The_Driver (Apr 21, 2016)

I just got my first (EDIT: round body) A2. A very cool light! There ist just one problem that I have: I have to press the switch with an extreme amount of pressure which I can hardly do with only one hand if I want to activate the bulb momentarily. It doesn't seem to make a difference how the tailcap ist orientated. The LEDs are activated much more easily. Constant-On operation works normally. 

Is this normal? How hard do you guys need to press the switch to light the bulb?


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## Sean (Apr 21, 2016)

The_Driver said:


> I just got my first A2. A very cool light! There ist just one problem that I have: I have to press the switch with an extreme amount of pressure which I can hardly do with only one hand if I want to activatre the bulb momentarily. It doesn't seem to make a difference how the tailcap ist orientated. The LEDs are activated much more easily. Constant-On operation works normally.
> 
> Is this normal? How hard do you guys need to press the switch to light the bulb?



Mine is the same way. Although I don't remember the older 4-flats version needing that much pressure.




bykfixer said:


> Off topic:
> Do you know your membership # Sean? Looks like you have been here a long, long time.



Yep, I'm old!


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## ampdude (Apr 21, 2016)

wolfstyle said:


> If you weren't aware member Fivemega has made bi-pin adapter in the past that uses Streamlight Strion bulbs. Not currently available but could give you some ideas.



From what I remember the Strion bulbs were a bit over driven in that setup and tended to blacken quickly like the Lumens Factory bulbs. But then the Strion bulbs tended to blacken quickly even in their stock setup in my experience.


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## ampdude (Apr 21, 2016)

teak said:


> Lumens factory sells their HO-A2 only. You will have to search for the MA02. They can be found if you look around, no one knows for how long though. The lumens factory work good, only issue is they can be inconsistent on which a2 they will work in. I just received my replacement from lumens factory the other day it it works just fine. They are worth trying atleast.



They were designed to work in the flat sided and round sided A2. So when used in a round sided A2 they can tend to cause the factory bulbs to no longer work if you tighten the head too much. Also, some 4-flats won't work with it unless you really tighten them down if the HO-A2 is slightly out of spec.


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## ampdude (Apr 21, 2016)

teak said:


> Nice. Yes I will agree the beam tends to be better with the lumens factory bulbs. It is a little brighter as well..



Yes, the Lumens Factory HO-A2 is slightly brighter than the stock lamp assembly.

The nice thing about the stock bulb is that with the soft start and regulation, plus SF manufacture quality, it pretty much seems to last forever. I even run them on IMR16340 rechargeables all the time. I have one that I have been using for many years and even one of the wires was knocked off the base at one point. It continues to work perfectly with no signs of imminent death or bulb darkening.


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## cland72 (Apr 25, 2016)

This eBay seller has a number of Surefire incandescent bulbs that are NIP. Good prices, too. Buyer beware as this seller only has 97 transactions on eBay which is low, but their feedback is 100%.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=surefire&_sacat=0


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## Ahshan (Apr 25, 2016)

Str8stroke said:


> Lumens Factory! I have their bulbs in all my A2's and love them.
> 
> BTW: Where are you located? IE: USA??



The land of cattle, Texas.



cland72 said:


> This eBay seller has a number of Surefire incandescent bulbs that are NIP. Good prices, too. Buyer beware as this seller only has 97 transactions on eBay which is low, but their feedback is 100%.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=surefire&_sacat=0



I just scored a pair; the last one went seconds later. Thanks for the heads up!

It seems the LF HO-A2 has gone up in price recently. Are A2 bulbs going the way of .22 LR ammo?

Anyway, time for some onion rings


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## ampdude (Apr 25, 2016)

He had MA02's? What was the price?

When I looked before your post there were none.


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## cland72 (Apr 25, 2016)

ampdude said:


> He had MA02's? What was the price?
> 
> When I looked before your post there were none.



There were two - $14.99 each.


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## Ahshan (Apr 28, 2016)

fivemega said:


> Ahshan said:
> 
> 
> > Dear Fivemega,
> ...






In case you ain't know...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...emega-s-Strion-conversion-kit-for-Surefire-A2


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## cland72 (Apr 28, 2016)

DM51 said:


> The A2 Strion bulb conversion kit from Fivemega is a replacement/upgrade for the stock MA02 incan lamp assembly for the Surefire A2.
> 
> The socket costs $32, and it takes the tiny Streamlight Strion bi-pin bulb, which costs $6.
> 
> A new MA02 LA costs up to $25, so once you have the FM socket, there is a significant potential saving on new bulbs/LAs.




LOL, $32. The cost savings ain't the reason nowadays given most of these go for $50+. The reason for a strion kit these days, I assume, is strictly keeping your light operational. You gotta wonder how long Streamlight will keep making Strion bulbs...


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Apr 28, 2016)

True, but if you have one of these Strion kits you can stock up on bulbs on the cheap now for about $7-8 a piece and be set for a lifetime or longer. 

I am going to test and see how the A2 runs on a 4.35v 16650 Sanyo cell. More of a curiosity than anything else. The new AW black and red RCR123 cells are too fat and too long to work in my A2 properly.


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## cland72 (Apr 28, 2016)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> True, but if you have one of these Strion kits you can stock up on bulbs on the cheap now for about $7-8 a piece and be set for a lifetime or longer.
> 
> I am going to test and see how the A2 runs on a 4.35v 16650 Sanyo cell. More of a curiosity than anything else. The new AW black and red RCR123 cells are too fat and too long to work in my A2 properly.



I am super interested in the results of a 16650 in your A2. Please report back when you've tried it.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Apr 28, 2016)

Sure thing. I'll check tailcap currents and also do a runtime comparison of the 16650 vs 2x AW Red IMR 16340 cells until the "low mode" kicks in.


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## bykfixer (Apr 28, 2016)

cland72 said:


> LOL, $32. The cost savings ain't the reason nowadays given most of these go for $50+. The reason for a strion kit these days, I assume, is strictly keeping your light operational. You gotta wonder how long Streamlight will keep making Strion bulbs...



Streamlight is still making Strion incans. At least they late last year. I bought 2 with 015 serial numbers and redesigned tail caps.


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## novice (Apr 28, 2016)

cland72 said:


> I am super interested in the results of a 16650 in your A2. Please report back when you've tried it.



Does anyone know if the protected version of the KeepPower 16650 cell will comfortably fit inside the body tube of the A2?


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Apr 28, 2016)

Don't waste your time trying. I just popped in a 16650 tonight and the beam was anemic! Not half as bright as two CR123 cells.


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## novice (Apr 28, 2016)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> I just popped in a 16650 tonight and the beam was anemic! Not half as bright as two CR123 cells.



ShineOn..., thank you for sharing that piece of news. I thought that maybe the 16650 was the answer to my A2 dreams. I'm still tempted to try it, since I have a Strion bulb adapter set-up. 

Can I ask which particular 16650 you tried, whether it was protected or unprotected, whether it was a snug fit, and which bulb you were using? Thanks!


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Apr 28, 2016)

Yeah, I was a bit bummed as well. I thought it would be a good solution for a bit more runtime. The battery is the button top unprotected sanyo/panasonic 4.35v 16650 from Mtn Electronics. It is a pink/purplish color. It has a clear wrapper on top of the color one. With the clear wrapper on it wouldn't even fit. I pulled off the clear wrapper and it fit fine. 

Cell was charged full up to 4.35 volts so I figured it would have enough voltage to push the PWM regulator which feeds the 4.0v to the bulb. 

I was using a FM Strion adapter with a Strion bulb.


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## cland72 (Apr 29, 2016)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> Don't waste your time trying. I just popped in a 16650 tonight and the beam was anemic! Not half as bright as two CR123 cells.





ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> Yeah, I was a bit bummed as well. I thought it would be a good solution for a bit more runtime. The battery is the button top unprotected sanyo/panasonic 4.35v 16650 from Mtn Electronics. It is a pink/purplish color. It has a clear wrapper on top of the color one. With the clear wrapper on it wouldn't even fit. I pulled off the clear wrapper and it fit fine.
> 
> Cell was charged full up to 4.35 volts so I figured it would have enough voltage to push the PWM regulator which feeds the 4.0v to the bulb.
> 
> I was using a FM Strion adapter with a Strion bulb.



Thanks very much for the report. Unfortunate results...


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## sween1911 (Apr 29, 2016)

You're killin me, Smalls! You guys are making me miss my A2. Sold it a few years ago, but it never failed me. Hiking, camping, and whatever else I threw at it, never missed a beat.


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## yellow (Apr 29, 2016)

having used my normally-hidden-somewhere-in-some-desk-because-of-uselessness A2 (strion modded) for the last few days ...
(got aircondition reparied in car and the guys there told to "come back in some weeks so we can check if everything is OK" and something of "contrasting liquid used" ... and of course everyone of us has an UV-light , in my case the led ring in the A2) 
... I can only wonder ...
REALLY?
the main beam of the A2?
_preferred_ to what?
To an actual led?
* that gives a flat uniform beam, instead of that ugly "shredded" one of the A2 (because of the led holes)?
* that gives a more powerful beam, instead of the even more energy hungry but considerably dimmer hotwire bulb?
* that offers several different - but all useful - output(s), when driver is set up accordingly?
really hard to believe.


... if one does not have to luxury to purchase whatever light - dont mind if even this one - just because one wants/can do --> fine.
But when one for example really has to consider and then seriously has to save otherwise necessary money, for just that one --> _re_consider!

Compare it with a classic car: yes, a dream (possibly) but a luxury hobby and uselessly in regard to gain for the money; for daily life use; for ...


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## sween1911 (Apr 29, 2016)

I took a Surefire C2 and an A2 on a night hike awhile back. The C2 had a Malkoff M60 (old school with the optic). I stood in a field and shined it and the A2 out into the darkness and the bright white beam of the A2 was just as clear as the LED and gave superior color rendition, I could actually tell the difference in things I was looking at in the distance. Sure there's better choices right now if you can only have one light, but that's not the topic of this discussion.


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## Ahshan (Apr 29, 2016)

yellow said:


> having used my normally-hidden-somewhere-in-some-desk-because-of-uselessness A2 (strion modded) for the last few days ...
> (got aircondition reparied in car and the guys there told to "come back in some weeks so we can check if everything is OK" and something of "contrasting liquid used" ... and of course everyone of us has an UV-light , in my case the led ring in the A2)
> ... I can only wonder ...
> REALLY?
> ...



I don't suppose you'd be willing to sell the strion mod to someone who could make good use of it... Would you? ( I mean, being that it is normally-hidden-somewhere-in-some-desk-because-of-uselessness)


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## cland72 (Apr 29, 2016)

yellow said:


> having used my normally-hidden-somewhere-in-some-desk-because-of-uselessness A2 (strion modded) for the last few days ...
> snip
> 
> Compare it with a classic car: yes, a dream (possibly) but a luxury hobby and uselessly in regard to gain for the money; for daily life use; for ...



If all you care about is beam quality and output, the A2 ain't for you, bub.


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## bykfixer (Apr 29, 2016)

yellow said:


> having used my normally-hidden-somewhere-in-some-desk-because-of-uselessness A2 (strion modded) for the last few days ...
> (got aircondition reparied in car and the guys there told to "come back in some weeks so we can check if everything is OK" and something of "contrasting liquid used" ... and of course everyone of us has an UV-light , in my case the led ring in the A2)
> ... I can only wonder ...
> REALLY?
> ...



Had to read that like 5 times to even begin to comprehend what was being said. 

And in general the entire incan subforum centers around a technology of days gone by, so anybody reading anything in said subforum should understand that. It's a basic thing.

Posting negative comments about what was once a modern technology is puzzling. It makes about as much sense as complaining about the ride quality of a Model T.


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## archimedes (Apr 29, 2016)

Although it's not perfect, I find the beam quality of the MA02 (A2 lamp) surprisingly good, actually.

Can't remember right now which other SF lamp is super "football-shaped" ... but it's a lot better than that one, lol.

The stock (unfrosted) A2 triple LED beamshape, however, is not great


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## cland72 (Apr 30, 2016)

archimedes said:


> Although it's not perfect, I find the beam quality of the MA02 (A2 lamp) surprisingly good, actually.
> 
> Can't remember right now which other SF lamp is super "football-shaped" ... but it's a lot better than that one, lol.
> 
> The stock (unfrosted) A2 triple LED beamshape, however, is not great



MN10?


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## archimedes (Apr 30, 2016)

cland72 said:


> MN10?


Ya, that's the one


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## mhs (May 3, 2016)

Overall, Aviator is still my favourite light, and I find the only competitor for it to be mcgizmo luna-sol.

It becomes hard to get MA02, but there is hope for those who still believe in A2 and it's incandescent beam. Just by replacing 1 resistor in LVR, Aviator's output can be supressed to drive variety of bulbs rated between 3 and 4 Volt. It is possible to fine tune output to slightly overdrive filament. I've been using 3.7 V, 3$ Chinese bulbs, sold in P60-like light assembly. Powered by two RCR123's. I was quite pleased with usable beam range up to ~50 meters / 150+ feet. The only drawback for me in this case is short regulated runtime of only 15-20 minutes with 550 mAh Li-Mn cells. I believe that with good quality bulb, it is possible to hit 100 m / 300+ feet beam range out of standard A2 head. Imagine what could be achieved with A2 turbohead .

At the moment I'm experimenting with 3V bulb - Maglite bi-pin "Mag-Num Star II", powered by 1 x 16650 Li-Ion. So far I have reached useful range of ~30 m / 90 feet, and I'm afraid it's close to it's limit, as the CCT looks quite high already. I'm tempted to push it some more, but I'm afraid of , and these bulbs are not cheap in my country. I haven't measured total incan runtime yet, but it's much longer with this 2 Ah cell. For now I'm hoping to find some robust 3V bulb, able to deliver 50 m beam range that would last for about 1 hour on single 16650.


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## Ahshan (May 3, 2016)

_DELETED._


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## Ahshan (May 3, 2016)

mhs said:


> Overall, Aviator is still my favourite light, and I find the only competitor for it to be mcgizmo luna-sol.
> 
> It becomes hard to get MA02, but there is hope for those who still believe in A2 and it's incandescent beam. Just by replacing 1 resistor in LVR, Aviator's output can be supressed to drive variety of bulbs rated between 3 and 4 Volt. It is possible to fine tune output to slightly overdrive filament. I've been using 3.7 V, 3$ chineese bulbs, sold in P60-like light assembly. Powered by two RCR123's. I was quite pleased with usable beam range up to ~50 meters / 150+ feet. The only drawback for me in this case is short regulated runtime of only 15-20 minutes with 550 mAh Li-Mn cells. I believe that with good quality bulb, it is possible to hit 100 m / 300+ feet beam range out of standard A2 head. Imagine what could be achieved with A2 turbohead .
> 
> At the moment I'm experimenting with 3V bulb - Maglite bi-pin "Mag-Num Star II", powered by 1 x 16650 Li-Ion. So far I have reached useful range of ~30 m / 90 feet, and I'm afraid it's close to it's limit, as the CCT looks quite high already. I'm tempted to push it some more, but I'm afraid of , and these bulbs are not cheap in my country. I haven't measured total incan runtime yet, but it's much longer with this 2 Ah cell. For now I'm hoping to find some robust 3V bulb, able to deliver 50 m beam range that would last for about 1 hour on single 16650.




How are you adapting/interfacing said bulbs to the A2?


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (May 3, 2016)

mhs - if you are able to achieve about 100-150 lumens off a 16650 cell please post pictures of the mod. It would be interesting to see how you get things apart and what gets changed in the setup.


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## mhs (May 4, 2016)

Ahshan said:


> How are you adapting/interfacing said bulbs to the A2?



I use spent MA02 LA to host those bulbs in A2 head. Here are some examples:

MA02 stock, MA02 with Strion bulb:






MA02 stock, MA02 with 3.7 V Chinese bulb:





MA02 with 3 V Maglite Mag-Num Star II. With this diameter bulb there's no more room for plastic collar:





So it is basically replacing glass part of lamp assembly, which can be tricky sometimes as bulbs vary in diameter, it requires drilling to fit, and soldering wires to metal plates of assembly. The Fivemega Strion socket would simplify whole process, making it more convenient to migrate from one bi-pin bulb to another.



ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> mhs - if you are able to achieve about 100-150 lumens off a 16650 cell please post pictures of the mod. It would be interesting to see how you get things apart and what gets changed in the setup.



*ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond*, Check your PM box.


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## m4a1usr (May 4, 2016)

mhs said:


> I use spent MA02 LA to host those bulbs in A2 head. Here are some examples:
> 
> MA02 stock, MA02 with Strion bulb:
> 
> ...



That is simply brilliant! I finally got a working bi pin adapter made from a Lumens Factory HO-A2 lamp that I gutted and cut down. The connectors off a Mini Mag lamp holder worked well enough to retain a StreamLight lamp. Quite the "Franken" bi-pin Strion lamp adapter but it works. I'm curious about the resistor mod you mentioned? That sounds intriguing. Would like to hear more about that.


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## Kestrel (May 4, 2016)

The_Driver said:


> I just got my first (EDIT: round body) A2. A very cool light! There ist just one problem that I have: I have to press the switch with an extreme amount of pressure which I can hardly do with only one hand if I want to activate the bulb momentarily. It doesn't seem to make a difference how the tailcap ist orientated. The LEDs are activated much more easily. Constant-On operation works normally.
> 
> Is this normal? How hard do you guys need to press the switch to light the bulb?


Hello The_Driver,
Although I'm not an expert on the A2's, I have extensive experience with the identical tailcap config wrt the L1's and L2's.
I would wager that if your A2 has the typical nickel-plated insert in the tail section, this insert has been pressed/inserted too far into the body.
I have had a similar (but not identical) issue with a L2 in this regard.

I would highly recommend reading the following thread and examining the various close-up pics.
Let's not work on a solution just yet, but I did want to point you in the right direction to see if you think this might be related to the issue you're experiencing.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-a-Bored-Surefire-L1-Lumamax-amp-Malkoff-Head

In particular, note posts # 9 - 11.

Hope this helps, and best regards;


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## The_Driver (May 5, 2016)

@Kestrel: Thanks for the Tip!
The problem has actually almost gone away completely after about a week of use. 
I am now able to use the light with one hand and not break my finger when using the bulb.


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## Kestrel (May 5, 2016)

Um, OK, glad to hear it.


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## cland72 (May 5, 2016)

The_Driver said:


> @Kestrel: Thanks for the Tip!
> The problem has actually almost gone away completely after about a week of use.
> I am now able to use the light with hand and not break my finger when using the bulb.



Strangely enough, this happened to me with an old L1 I purchased used. Apparently the former owner had removed the battery and screwed the tailcap all the way down until it was tight. When I first started using it, the light was less than reliable - I didn't know what to expect because the three tab springs in the tailcap were so worn down. Over time, however, they apparently fixed themselves because the light worked normally after a couple of days.

Perhaps that's what happened here.


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## gsr (Jun 8, 2016)

I've found a shop with a couple of A2-WH-HA for $117. I had one long ago, and sold it several years ago. I'm wondering if I should pick up another one...


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## rookhawk (Jun 16, 2016)

Devastating to think there may be no more Incandescent bulbs available. 

I'm just trying to get one spare and some blue LEDs for my secondary light on my flat side white/white unit.


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## cland72 (Jun 17, 2016)

rookhawk said:


> Devastating to think there may be no more Incandescent bulbs available.
> 
> I'm just trying to get one spare and some blue LEDs for my secondary light on my flat side white/white unit.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Surefir...332842?hash=item5b25bf86ea:g:l3YAAOSwqBJXXiXr


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## xdayv (Jun 17, 2016)

Hey A2 fans...

I just got an Oveready Tailstanding Shroud for Z62 (L1/L2/LX2/A2), I don't know how to install it.


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## archimedes (Jun 17, 2016)

Isn't it threaded, just like the E-series version ... ?


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## xdayv (Jun 17, 2016)

archimedes said:


> Isn't it threaded, just like the E-series version ... ?


It isn't, I got the four-flats version if that matters?


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## archimedes (Jun 17, 2016)

Really ... ? No threads at the base of the shroud ???


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## xdayv (Jun 17, 2016)

archimedes said:


> Really ... ? No threads at the base of the shroud ???



The OR Tailstanding shroud has threads, but the A2's tailswitch seems to have no thread to accept it... it has a plastic cover surrounding the rubber tailswitch cap.


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## archimedes (Jun 17, 2016)

That threaded plastic cover is what you remove and replace ....


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## m4a1usr (Jun 17, 2016)

Here's a pictorial for demonstration purposes. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?393042-breakdown-dissassembly-of-a-SF-Z62-tailcap


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## xdayv (Jun 18, 2016)

archimedes said:


> That threaded plastic cover is what you remove and replace ....





m4a1usr said:


> Here's a pictorial for demonstration purposes. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?393042-breakdown-dissassembly-of-a-SF-Z62-tailcap




Thanks guys! Looks like I just have to unscrew the retaining ring?


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## balane (Jun 19, 2016)

I'm head over heals for my A2. It's my favorite light I own. I ordered a Tad Customs drop in for it which is currently sitting in California customs.


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## chillinn (Jun 26, 2016)

Hope this is the right place to ask... I am getting a wee bit confused about the A2. I thought there were two incan versions, the first, original, non-crenellated 4-flats version, and the crenellated three flats version. But now I realize there must be at least four, or more, or at least the branding changed... because the A2 I have does not say "Digital Plus Series." I have also learned there is a black annodized version.

May I please have an authoritative post responding that describes all the incan A2 evar made, in order of market appearance (and the years of release would be sweet) and exactly what is different about the models (even if only cosmetic differences)? I can not find anything anywhere that is comprehensive about the different models, how many there were, what is different, etc. Thanks guys.


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## archimedes (Jun 26, 2016)

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Thread-Index-Surefire-A2-Aviator-information

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?199396-The-SureFire-A2-Thread-Index


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## teak (Dec 20, 2016)

Old post I started but....tad and his bi pin adaptors have breathed new life into the A2. Let's hope he continues to keep them available.


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## mcm308 (Jan 13, 2017)

teak said:


> Old post I started but....tad and his bi pin adaptors have breathed new life into the A2. Let's hope he continues to keep them available.


Yea, I'm ordering one with a bunch of bulbs. I have a LF bulb that is hit and miss... 
A2 is my all time favorite. Never should of sold the 10 I had. Now trying to put the family back together!


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## mcm308 (Jan 20, 2017)

It seems the wind has been let out of the sails on the 4 flats. Value seems to be gone.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jan 21, 2017)

mcm308 said:


> It seems the wind has been let out of the sails on the 4 flats. Value seems to be gone.



No it doesn't appear to have. Probably the only A2 which has value at the moment are the black ones as they are as rare as can be.


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## jellydonut (Jan 25, 2017)

Surefire discontinued the bulb? Oh man, this is depressing news.

I've had nothing but good experience with my LF bulbs, but it's still sad that the OEM is not available any more.


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## ma tumba (Jan 29, 2017)

Koala just confirmed that his rings would work with 5mm Yuji LEDs. 

I wonder if anything would prevent from boring out the 3mm LED holes in the A2 reflector for 5mm LEDs so that Koala or Calipso rings with the Yuji LEDs could be installed? 

The 3200K 95 CRI version would greatly complement the incand beam.


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## jellydonut (Jan 29, 2017)

Drilling even bigger holes in a reflector which is already pretty small would not do the main beam any favors. Personally I would not be interested in compromising the quality of the incandescent beam any further for the sake of the secondary LEDs.


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## ma tumba (Jan 29, 2017)

jellydonut said:


> Drilling even bigger holes in a reflector which is already pretty small would not do the main beam any favors. Personally I would not be interested in compromising the quality of the incandescent beam any further for the sake of the secondary LEDs.



I just realized that the Koala and other rings use 5mm in the first place, and the holes in an A2 head are 5mm ready. So its time to get some Yuji LEDs


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## The_Driver (Jan 30, 2017)

ma tumba said:


> I just realized that the Koala and other rings use 5mm in the first place, and the holes in an A2 head are 5mm ready. So its time to get some Yuji LEDs



I have this configuration.
It works great. The warm-white Yujis are a perfect addition.


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## ampdude (Jan 31, 2017)

I'm a bit of a voice of dissent on all the A2 praise. I do and always have liked the light, but I've been a bit of a skeptic of it as well. The biggest problem with the A2 is that it's just not very bright. An E2e with fresh batteries easily smokes it in output and color temperature. IMO there really should have been a three cell version with a lamp that operated at a higher voltage. That really would have been something.

I will say that I do like the two mode operation of this incan for when you don't really need that much light, and it's nice being able to use rechargeable lithium ions and primaries with the same bulb. And of course the soft start feature is great as well. The low incan mode is a nice warning that the batteries are nearly toasted.


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## jellydonut (Feb 1, 2017)

A three-cell type would have been a good evolution, as would a development to take advantage of, for example, 123-sized IMR cells.

Still. It's the best around! It's got enough light for me.


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## mcm308 (Feb 1, 2017)

3 cell would've been too long and killed the form factor


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## ma tumba (Feb 1, 2017)

I would rather vote for a single cell version


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## teak (Feb 1, 2017)

Something I noticed with koalas onion ring is it changes the depth of the incan on tads bi pin adaptor. It gives the incan beam some dark spots. I moved the bulb around trying to tweak it out of it, but didn't have any luck. I didn't spend much time messing with it, so I don't if it changes up or down. One may be able to not seat the bulb all the way into the adaptor. However, that won't be the case If it is too tall. I will revisit it when I have more time. On a side note, does anyone have the yuji leds they would let go of?


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## search_and_rescue (Mar 18, 2017)

Looking at your Yellow-Green LED, if I had to do it all over again, I would purchase the Aviator(R) in "Yellow" instead of "Amber".:twothumbs :buddies::thanks:



SolarMan said:


> That is the Yellow Green. Full color rendition on aviation maps.
> 
> Love it.
> 
> Eric


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## Blackbird13 (Apr 14, 2017)

teak said:


> Yes the price on that MA02 went for $16.50, I bid at $16.. LOL I figured it would go for more, but to loose by 50 cents is just plain funny.
> 
> I have 2 other A2's. A 4 sided and 2 later models. For 3 total. All are on the original bulb, including the 4 sided one. Both have Koala rings, and none have bi pin adapters. I think its time for someone else to make a run of bi pin adapters. I believe they would sell out in no time.


I also am a huge fan of the aviator, what is a koala ring, thanks and have a blessed day


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## scout24 (Apr 14, 2017)

Blackbird- Member "Koala" makes what are referred to as "Onion Rings" for the A2. They are replacements for the factory LED ring, handmade, and have user selectable brightness, as well as choices of 5mm emitter colors. Punch "Onion Rings" into the search bar, and enjoy...


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## xxRangerxx (May 1, 2017)

I'm new to the flashlight game. But just got one of these for a pretty good deal (I think) and I like it a lot. Cool concept for sure!


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## novice (May 2, 2017)

xxRangerxx,
There is another custom part/s to replace the standard Surefire MA02 A2 Aviator bulb, which has been discontinued for awhile now, and when you can find them, aren't cheap. 
_Tad Customs_ makes a bi-pin bulb adapter to replace the Surefire lamp assembly, and also sells extra bulbs for it. His bulbs seem extremely well-priced. The MSRP on the original Surefire lamp assembly was in the neighborhood of $25:
http://tadcustoms.com/a2-bi-pin-socket.htm
http://tadcustoms.com/xenon-bi-pin-bulb.htm

I have no experience with the Tad Customs set-up myself, as I have the earlier and discontinued (and very difficult to find on the CPF marketplace) Fivemega's strion bulb adapter.

I do have Koala's onion ring in my A2 Aviators, and recommend them highly. The original Surefire led ring usually produces a "cloverleaf" pattern, which can be eliminated by "sanding" the leds with a fine-grit something (I used a Scotch 3M sanding sponge), I would advise against doing that to the original led ring, as that would void the warranty if you every needed to send it in. I would advise taking out the original led ring - be careful not to mar the tiny brass screws (again, voiding the warranty) - and carefully store it in a protective container. I have found the blue "Blistex" container to be a great size, once you thoroughly wash all the crap out. Once you get the Koala onion ring, you can sand the individual 5mm leds to your heart's content, and of course you have to trim the leads to the proper length. 5mm leds tend to be cheap, and if Koala is still selling them, I would advise getting the complete selection. I also found some 265nm UV 5mm leds, just in case I ever need UV. One of my Aviators has 5mm red leds in it (Um, don't use that one much since I don't do nighttime surveillance), and one of them has Yuji hi-CRI "white" (actually more yellowish) leds. If you ever decide to get into rechargeable Li-ion cells (and Tad customs bulbs seems to offer various possible configurations) - there are two main rules: 1) Do not scrimp on either the quality of the Li-ion cells or the charger (and please read the complete 'dangers' postings in the "battery" section of this forum, and 2) do as much research as you can on CPF regarding which quality rechargeable Li-Ion cells will actually fit in the A2 Aviator. It is a notoriously tight fit, and most "protected" cells will not fit. I myself use AW IMR 16340 cells.


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