# Deal Extreme Lights any good? Durable?



## bimemrboy318 (Aug 16, 2007)

Are the lights found on DX worth looking at? Are they cheaply made that a few times out camping and something will break or go wrong?

Looking at the 1xCR123 lights.


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## Gunner12 (Aug 16, 2007)

Most of them should be durable enough for everyday use(though some of their multi mode lights have been iffy). Just don't expect them to take any serious abuse.

Most of their CR123 lights are much brighter with rechargeable batteries, and their runtimes might be a bit short.

1 CR123 twisties:

Ultrafire C1, might be a bit slippery
Ultrafire WF-602D(HA III)
3W Cree P4


1 CR123 Clickies:

Gree
MX Power 3W
MTE 5 mode Cree(Rebel 100 version)


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

I've dropped my 602D several times but it still works fine. It's a really bright light - seems brighter than my 2x123 cree drop-in module (pure white vs warm white). It won't throw as far as the center spot is larger than the module's spot. I use (play with) my lights every day


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

bimemrboy318 said:


> Are the lights found on DX worth looking at? Are they cheaply made that a few times out camping and something will break or go wrong?
> 
> Looking at the 1xCR123 lights.


 The old saying, you get what you pay for is true. Just don't expect American quality when buying Chinese made lights.


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

xiaowenzu said:


> The old saying, you get what you pay for is true. Just don't expect American quality when buying Chinese made lights.



Yeah but expect you can get 5+ for the price of one SF using the same LED. How much can go wrong with a direct drive twisty? (KISS) There are plenty of SF and Novatac problem threads


Sometimes, increasingly more often, you pay more than you get. Dereelight seems to be one of the few that are properly priced.


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

knot said:


> Yeah but expect you can get 5+ for the price of one SF using the same LED.


 I tend to skip regular hamburger meals (cheapo lights), so I save up for the big fat juicy steaks (state of the art lights). :twothumbs


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## KingGlamis (Aug 17, 2007)

xiaowenzu said:


> I tend to skip regular hamburger meals (cheapo lights), so I save up to eat big fat juicy steaks (state of the art lights). :twothumbs



Yeah, but a hungry person on a budget will get much more nutrition out of five hamburgers than they will one big steak. 

Seriously, the price difference is way different than the quality difference. I wish I could justify the price of Sure Fire lights, but I can't. Buying an Ultra Fire or Super Fire is like eating a $10 steak instead of a $15 steak, but you only paid $2 for that $10 steak.


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

xiaowenzu said:


> I tend to skip regular hamburger meals (cheapo lights), so I save up to eat big fat juicy steaks (state of the art lights). :twothumbs



So I can have 5 meals while you go hungry with your one steak :twothumbs

Seriously, check out Dereelight. I believe is better than the rest, including SF, at a reasonable price.


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

KingGlamis said:


> Buying an Ultra Fire or Super Fire is like eating a $10 steak instead of a $15 steak, but you only paid $2 for that $10 steak.


 
I guess not all cheap lights are bad, but for me personally I find good quality can't be measured by money, because it's subjective. The most important thing is being satisfied. It's like a jewelry collector who collects only top quality products... or an audiophile who only buys great sound systems - it's a very satisfying feeling, IMO.  

In some ways, that's how I'd define a flashoholic... a person who's very selective in the product he buys and don't go out to blindly buy cheap lights just because they're cheap. :twothumbs


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

Oh geeze, would you happen to have any Grey Poupon? There can be a lot of satisfaction in buying a cheap or reasonably priced item that performs exceptionally well. You ought to try it sometime. It's called: finding a bargain.

Rich man buys once, poor man buys twice, frugal man buys the best performance for the price.


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

knot said:


> So I can have 5 meals while you go hungry with your one steak :twothumbs


 
WEll thank goodness flashlights aren't like food! We don't have to buy them everyday.. personally, I don't buy lights often (probably only 2 or 3 per year) but everytime I do, I've already saved up a lot of cash to get the best. My Novatac 120T is on the way! 

Dereelight looks interesting, I'm sure it's okay for the price, but I've got a SF U2 already :nana:

Honestly, I think we flasholics are a very discerning and meticulous bunch, so therefore we're able to pick up 'flaws' on even the most expensive and well made lights. For instance a Surefire L4 to a normal user would seem perfect and it is, but to us flasholics we'd probably complain something like, "Oh no, the O-rings aren't completely lubricated - it's only 355 degrees lubricated instead of 360!!


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

knot said:


> You ought to try it sometime. It's called: finding a bargain.


 I've personally been scammed many times in my life by so called bargains and lower priced products, so I tend to be more skeptical. Now my motto when it comes to purchasing is: 

"Skip the bargains, to save up for REAL bargains", if that makes any sense. 

Please try some steaks sometime...they're exquisitely nice, and you only live once.


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

Do you homework so you won't be scammed. Dereelight and SSC Coast Lenser are very high performance lights at bargain prices, in comparison.

SF U2? I'd feel like a fool for spending that much money. I have a cheap Sam's HID if I want a lot of light.

Novatec 120? Apparently, you haven't seen the issues thread about them.

I read somewhere it is better to spend what you can in the best home you can afford, rather than toys.


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## KingGlamis (Aug 17, 2007)

xiaowenzu said:


> I've personally been scammed many times in my life by so called bargains and lower priced products, so I tend to be more skeptical. Now my motto when it comes to purchasing is:
> 
> "Skip the bargains, to save up for REAL bargains", if that makes any sense.
> 
> Please try some steaks sometime...they're exquisitely nice, and you only live once.



I've bought "junk" lights too that were not worth anything. But my experience with the knock-offs like Ultra Fire and Super Fire say they are not junk. In fact, they seem to be great lights, with similar or the same output as the high-dollar lights, just slightly less in the quality of the machining. Personally I could care less about machining quality as long as the threads work as they are supposed to. My main concern is how much light does a light put out.


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## LEDcandle (Aug 17, 2007)

If you go for the $5-10 lights, don't expect much. Sometimes you even get the wrong LED, bad threads, intermittent light etc...

Mid-range Chinese lights ($20-$60) under proper 'brands' like Fenix, Jetbeam, Hyperion, Lumapower, Dereelight, Liteflux are all very high quality in terms of machining, finish, circuitry and output. 3-4 times cheaper than a Surefire but 80% as good or even just as good or better to some people. They are indeed kinda like apples and oranges, but to a general flashlight user, all you need is something reliable that puts out light.

If so, then these mid-range chinese lights are the best choice. SFs and american-made flashlights do come with quality issues too. Don't forget the price difference is not purely indicative of quality difference; material/labour/branding etc.. are all higher in the States. So you are also paying for all that. 

That being said, you need to own some SFs later if you want to become a flashaholic, then later move on to 'connoiseur' level with the McGizmos, KIs and all that custom stuff


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

> That being said, you need to own some SFs later if you want to become a flashaholic, then later move on to 'connoiseur' level with the McGizmos, KIs and all that custom stuff



If I won the lottery, I believe I still would be a frugal buyer. I want the best I can get for the money. If something is 9/10 the product for 6/10 the price, I'm going for the better deal. 

As enlightment says: *"Mounting a switch, reflector/optic, and light engine in a tube is not rocket science"*

There is no price of admission, only the desire to improve. How many non-flashaholics would discover and do this? Some flashaholics would rather customize or improve on their own rather than pay for "admission". In the motorcycle community that's called being a poser or weekend warrior.

The output here is probably ten times what it was. An alcoholic seeks the most kick for the buck.

Here's my rough use "junk" light. I bought it for $3.00 at a gas station and replaced the LED with a cree drop-in module and removed the resistor in the tailcap. The funny thing is, i've must of clicked this light well over a hundred times but it still keeps on working without a single intermittent light or poor output (due to bad connection) There is a spring on both ends. 





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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

IMO, the ultra smooth U.I of the SF U2 can't be beaten... it really is a wall of light... it has served me well for many years. It's the light I love the most! 



knot said:


> Novatec 120? Apparently, you haven't seen the issues thread about them.


 Well I did read about a guy who tried to polish the 120P reflector with a *paper towel* and now it's all scratched up. Lol, I must keep that in mind not to make end user modds when I get mine. Seriously what was he thinking!


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

LEDcandle said:


> That being said, you need to own some SFs later if you want to become a flashaholic, then later move on to 'connoiseur' level with the McGizmos, KIs and all that custom stuff


 haha, that's so true! *hi fives* It's like an audiophile who claims he is, but has never owned Onkyo, Marantz, Jamo, Yamah or Wilson sound equipments.:devil:


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

I _might _pay $100 for a U2 with a Cree but any more, forget it. On second thought I wouldn't even pay that much.



> haha, that's so true! *hi fives* It's like an audiophile who claims he is, but has never owned Onkyo, Marantz, Jamo, Yamah or Wilson sound equipments.:devil:



An audiophile is a person having an ardent interest in stereo or high-fidelity sound reproduction. There is nothing stating he has to own certain brands. You have some sort of personality issue going on or are very immature.


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

knot said:


> I _might _pay $100 for a U2 with a Cree but any more, forget it. On second thought I wouldn't even pay that much.


I guess it's different strokes for different folks. :wave:I'm the kind of person who'd purchase only a few quality products every year, and don't risk buying cheaper/less well known brands - it has given me tremendous headaches over the years when I do, and I've learnt my lesson. I tend to have a lot of money saved this way too, because I'm not spending it only quantity, only quality. I'm a RICH MAN!


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

knot said:


> You have some sort of personality issue going on or are very immature.


 No need to get personal here, lets be objective. :nana:I guess everyone has different interpretations here, and we're all expressing our opinions.


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

You are getting personal. You are excluding anyone that doesn't buy SF as non-flashaholic. I really don't care what you think, but am surprised at the stupidity and the snobbery of it. It's like you need to show off or something. Get a clue, no one cares what flashlights you own. You only came to the thread to ridicule DX lights and promote SF. I should know better than to argue with younger folks. Good bye and good luck with your purchases.


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## LEDcandle (Aug 17, 2007)

knot said:


> You are getting personal. You are excluding anyone that doesn't buy SF as non-flashaholic. I really don't care what you think, but am surprised at the stupidity and the snobbery of it. It's like you need to show off or something. Get a clue, no one cares what flashlights you own. You only came to the thread to ridicule DX lights and promote SF. I should know better than to argue with younger folks. Good bye and good luck with your purchases.



For me, I never meant any snobbery and am all for chinese lights; I just meant that if one can afford it, he should try out some SFs and some custom lights and get a feel before comparing. 

I use the term 'flashaholic' loosely; I don't think a person who doesn't own any SFs isn't one. Any hardcore enthusiast who has a love for lights is a flashaholic to me. In fact someone who loves and only uses his $0.10 keychain lights are flashaholics to me too. 

I guess what I meant is to experience one for yourself before making a decision (SFs can be resold easily in the B/S/T should not meet your needs). And to get into the whole connoiseur level, you'd have to own some of those 'collectible' lights. You can't just buy a Fenix and be a connoiseur (not that it's important or anything). 

Basically, just buy what suits your needs. SF is not the be all and end all of lights; in fact sometimes they are overpriced for some needs. But it would be nice to try owning one if possible. No offence meant to anyone!


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## Bror Jace (Aug 17, 2007)

Yes, it's starting to get personal in here ... I suggest you guys cease.

I'm with the bargain shoppers above. Part of me would like to be an elitist and buy only the best. I can't afford elite automobiles or housing ... but I _could_ afford elite flashlights like Surefire.

Problem is that I read about problems with their lights all the tinme on this board ... even simple things like failed clickies. I'd expect this on a cheap light ... at least occasionally ... but not on a light costing $80 or more. As has been stated before ... switches, battery tubes, reflectors, etc ... are _not_ rocket science. Why should they cost more than $20-$30??? Look how complex and precise a hard drive for a computer is ... and they can cost well under $50. 

So, I took some chances with some of the cheaper lights from DAE, Kaidomain and DealExtreme.

I'd say at least 80% met or exceeded my expectations. One example: I have the "Eileen" light from Kaidomain which is the typical 1x18650 chassis with a Seoul P4 emitter (where were the Surefire lights with Seoul P4s several months ago?) and the output is incredible: nice tint & super bright (130 lumens claimed - seems pretty close). 

I have some 1xAA lights on order from DX ... let's see how they are. Some pretty good things said about them here on this site.

Lights can fail ... even the pricey ones. I always try to have 2-3 flashlights with me when I need light. This is easier to do when the lights cost $15-$25 each ... instead of $150-$250.


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## LEDcandle (Aug 17, 2007)

Bror Jace said:


> Yes, it's starting to get personal in here ... I suggest you guys cease.
> 
> I'm with the bargain shoppers above. Part of me would like to be an elitist and buy only the best. I can't afford elite automobiles or housing ... but I _could_ afford elite flashlights like Surefire.
> 
> ...



This isn't the first thread nor do I think it will be the last thread of SF vs chinese lights. Haha... things are pretty tame in here compared to some of the other threads.

I believe no one meant any harm here; it's just like saying "You don't have a real HID if you haven't tried the Barn Burner!!" in a tongue-in-cheek manner. Does it mean all AE and wolf-eyes owners are holding junk HID? Should they be so offended and take it personally? Guess you get the drift. 

That's how I meant it anyway  So peace out bros!


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## xiaowenzu (Aug 17, 2007)

knot said:


> Good bye and good luck with your purchases.


Thanks knot, you too - stay bright, my friend. :thumbsup:





Bror Jace said:


> I'm with the bargain shoppers above. Part of me would like to be an elitist and buy only the best. I can't afford elite automobiles or housing ... but I _could_ afford elite flashlights like Surefire.


 
That's a very wise way of looking at things my friend... and that's one way which the 'bargain' hunters and the quality pursuers can compromise. Peace out my flashoholic friends! :twothumbs

Oh and get the SF U2, it's *GOBSMACKINGLY AWESOME!*


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## Curious_character (Aug 17, 2007)

I don't buy cheap tools -- I learned long ago that it's false economy. But I do buy cheap toys. If I had to depend on a light in order to do my job or insure my safety, you betcha I'd gladly spend the bucks for a good quality light. But I don't. I tend to take them apart to see what makes them tick, try various mods, and otherwise play with them. I've broken a number of them in botched mod attempts, but don't mind at all since they're mostly inexpensive lights. I'm not afraid to carry them, leave them in my car, or take them into the woods, drop them in the mud -- unlike a number of folks who worry that their beautiful and expensive light might be stolen or, heavens, maybe scratched(*). And when the next generation comes along, it doesn't hurt me at all to give them away and replace them with the new ones, or mod them again.

There's certainly a place for quality lights, but also for the cheaper ones.

(*) I went through a fascination with guns when I was young, and duly envied the few folks who could afford the expensive, exotic, and beautiful Weatherby magnum rifles. But I very seldom saw anyone in the woods actually using one. The Weatherby stayed at home over the fireplace to impress the visitors. The owner shot his deer with an old beater Remington, just like I did -- no way would he actually take that beautiful gun out into the woods! Sound familiar?

c_c


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## abvidledUK (Aug 17, 2007)

xiaowenzu said:


> The old saying, you get what you pay for is true. Just don't expect American quality when buying Chinese made lights.



Well I actually find the Fenix range top quality, thank you very much !!


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## VidPro (Aug 17, 2007)

there are DX lights that are weak, and easily broken (and very lite), there are ones that have issues. and there are ones that are totally ok.

its user forums like this, and review sites, that can tell which ones are "Good and Durable" , and which ones are so dang cheap in price nobody cares, because they lost nothing.

if you want a DX light of a specific model or type, then check out with the reviewers, or USERS (specially) before you pay big bucks for it, or before you buy 101 of them. for a person to say ALL lights of any Dealer are good, or good for your purposes, would be neer impossible. dx sells many different brands even.

and generally you dont buy 5 of one model, to try and get a good one, even though you could buy 5 to 1 of others. if your going to go that route, buy 5 Different models, and the models themselves will be varying in quality, type and style.

your best bet, is to ask a user here who has one of the exact model and version you wanted.

the crudiest thin aluminum dx light at 1oz of weight, might thrill a ultralight backpacker , but be useless to somone who runs them over, depends on the need.


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## JRNioa (Aug 17, 2007)

To be honest I bought the Dealextreme MDXL 3 watt flashlight for $6, replaced the LED in it with a Seoul P4 SCC for a total $15 expenditure and it performs better with a rechargeable batterystation 3.6 then my Fenix P1D CE that I paid $65 for last year! Brighter, lasts longer on the battery, runs cooler. Amazing!!


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## f22shift (Aug 17, 2007)

the chinese lights are fine. just dont buy the cheap ones(<$40-50) if you are picky otherwise you'll end up spending more.


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## Pax et Lux (Aug 17, 2007)

Firstly, it's a case of buyer beware. Do your homework on CPF and you will probably get a bargain. From what I've read here, anything below $10 is deeply suspect - but then, what did you expect? 

I think what it boils down to is a personality thing. I am not a hoarder/collector, so I would rather buy one flashlight a year, but get a good one (I like my new purchases to do something my exisiting lights don't do). I can go nine months between flashlight purchases. . . no, really. I'm also happy to use low output 5mm lights around the house, because they are the right output for that kind of use, even tho' they are laughably outdated by cree/ssc/rebel standards.

Some people like to have lights all around them. That's fine, too.


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## meuge (Aug 17, 2007)

In my experience the MTE lights are the ones that have decent workmanship. 

They are certainly worth the <$15 price tag... in particular the 1-mode SSC MTE, as well as the 5-mode Cree (to a lesser extent).


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## datiLED (Aug 17, 2007)

The majority of Chinese lights on the discount sites will be cheaply made, or made with lesser quality materials, have poor (or no) regulation, and make you wish that you had saved up for something a little better. There are a few exceptions in the mix.

The Fenix lights on the other hand, and very well made, have flat regulation and are built to last. They have anti-reflective glass lenses, aluminum reflectors and have an overall quality that you can feel.

Buying cheap lights is part of the flashaholic transformation process. Go ahead and buy a few so that you will know real quality when you experience it.


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## BlackDecker (Aug 17, 2007)

Keep checking Deal Extreme for good deals. A month ago, I picked up a Fenix L2D CE for $41. It's a fine quality light with blindingly bright output from the CREE emitter.

Deal Extreme kept me posted on the status of my order, even sent a followup e-mail about 2 weeks after I received the light to make sure I was happy. Excellent service, excellent price.


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## d123 (Aug 17, 2007)

I have no problems with some of the better quality Chinese lights, I like all the Fenix lights (I probably like my P3D more than my Surefire lights).

I also bought the 602D from DX and found it to be of good quality.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3379


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## bimemrboy318 (Aug 17, 2007)

I think I'm gonna get one of those 602D lights and see for myself!


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## knot (Aug 17, 2007)

bimemrboy318 said:


> I think I'm gonna get one of those 602D lights and see for myself!



DX is backordered but Kai has them: https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1767


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## bimemrboy318 (Aug 18, 2007)

What do you guys think about the 3W Cree P4 CR123A Flashlight? It uses a Cree XRE P4 and is actually smaller than the 602D. I love the size of that little guy.


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## knot (Aug 18, 2007)

bimemrboy318 said:


> What do you guys think about the 3W Cree P4 CR123A Flashlight? It uses a Cree XRE P4 and is actually smaller than the 602D. I love the size of that little guy.




Link? I like the HAIII anodizing on the 602D and the clip.


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## jbosman1013 (Aug 18, 2007)

I guess i got lucky with my MTE 1xAA seoul I just put a battery in and have been using it ever sence with no flickering, shorting, or any other problems. I think as long as you don't use these lights as a hamer or some other unintended use you should be fine.


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## flashy bazook (Aug 18, 2007)

I would add one thing, which is that a very excellent poster here (x2x3x2) maintains a website with flashlight reviews which is very objective. (link:

http://www.lightreviews.info/news.html )

I mention him and the website because he likes a good deal and reviews several models from the Deal Extreme website.

Some rate very highly - and he has a "value" rating which explicitly factors in the price.

So you can check out to see if a light that interests you from the Deal Extreme website is reviewed, and also how it compares with lights from different sources.


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## Bror Jace (Aug 18, 2007)

Lots of good points (on both sides) in this thread.

*xiaowenzu* _"Oh and get the SF U2, it's *GOBSMACKINGLY AWESOME!*"_

I'd like to buy one ... but wasn't the U2 the Surefuire that had the defective tail clickies? See what I mean? If I buy a $15 light and am disappointed that's one thing. I won't buy another from that vendor or brand. But if I buy a $125 light and am disappointed, that'll haunt me for some time ... and may even turn me off to flashlights as a hobby.

*C_C*, your point (and example) hits pretty close to home. My dad has a case full of collectible Winchester lever-action rifles. They are never fired. They look pretty all shined up but what's the point? After a while, they and the case they are in are just a big, heavy decoration. Really, how are our lives truly enhanced by such things? So much stuff I own ... but when I look at it now (years ... even _decades_ after I bought it) I'd rather have the money I originally paid for it. With this feeling preserved in my head, I am very careful before I shell out big bucks for _anything_.

*datiLED*: _"Buying cheap lights is part of the flashaholic transformation process. Go ahead and buy a few so that you will know real quality when you experience it."_

That's pretty good advice for lots of things, not just flashlights.

About a year and a half ago I bought about 20 various lights from DAE ... most were inexpensive 5mm Nichia lights. While only modest performers, they had decent-to-good build quality (which appeared to be _excellent_ build quality when compared to plastic Rayovac and Energizer lights most people are familiar with). These made terrific gifts for friends and family in the past year and a half.

I didn't have a lot of money invested in them so they were easy to give away. As a matter of fact, I'm _still_ giving them away and they're still a hit with non-flashaholics. :naughty:

And, when new emitters become available ... the P4s ... and now the Rebels, I can buy a brand new $20-$25 light with them all mounted and ready to go. Maybe a year or so from now I'll be giving away the lights I have on order right now and ordering Q5s? 

I come to CPF fairly often and it's currently my favorite on-line community. There's plenty of room for everyone ... people who buy _only_ titanium Alephs ... as well as people who refuse to spend over $15 on a light. 

The on-line community I have been a part of most for the past several years is BITOG - bobistheoilguy.com - and we have one guy there who drives a Ferrari Enzo ... as well as plenty of others that drive rusty old pick-up trucks. 

For people who understand the spirit of what it is to be an enthusiast (regardless of the hobby/specialty in question) it's _all good_.


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## bimemrboy318 (Aug 18, 2007)

For people who understand the spirit of what it is to be an enthusiast (regardless of the hobby/specialty in question) it's _all good_. [/quote]

Well said! (I'm the guy with the Ferrari on the other site! --> I only wish!)


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## Monocrom (Aug 18, 2007)

bimemrboy318 said:


> Are the lights found on DX worth looking at? Are they cheaply made that a few times out camping and something will break or go wrong?
> 
> Looking at the 1xCR123 lights.


 
You're gonna have to be a bit more specific as to what you mean by "durable."

Surefires and Inovas are extremely durable.... to a degree that DX lights are not. But there shouldn't be a problem if you mean like you drop your light on a rare occassion.


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## waynejitsu (Aug 19, 2007)

You definately get what you pay for.

Getting a cheapie foreign copy light is a gamble.
Many have had success, many others have not, lost money making a purchase, lost money returning it, lost money as the warranty is either not there or cost more than the light is worth, etc, etc.

I would NEVER count on a cheap light for an emergency or otherwise situation where you really count on it working.

Another example is battery drain. I have one light that was "talked up" here, but it drains the battery just sitting there in the off position.

Others do not have good regulation and burn through batteries faster than one that does have good regulation.


Sure, I have several cheapie HK and chineese lights, but have learned, they are more of a novelty than a real tool.

Another example would be knives.
You can get a good knife or a cheap knife.
Looking at them they "look" the same, however, the performance comes from what is not seen, like a flashlight and multitudes of products.

To get one to play with is one thing, to get one to rely on is another..., especially in an emergency situation, you want reliability at that time and cost is no longer an issue.


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## TMorita (Aug 20, 2007)

bimemrboy318 said:


> Are the lights found on DX worth looking at? Are they cheaply made that a few times out camping and something will break or go wrong?
> 
> Looking at the 1xCR123 lights.


 
I have a bunch of them, and the quality varies. Some have good threads, reasonably good metal, and good quality anodizing and some are kinda crappy - bad quality threads, softer metal, and cheap anodizing.

The Ultrafires IMHO are the most consistent. They obviously aren't Surefires, but they're good for the price, and will hold up well as long as you don't abuse them. The ones I would recommend are:

WF-801: very similar to a Huntlight FT-01 but cheaper:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3379

WF-606B: These are nice. 2AA or CR2.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4128

WF-602D (Cree w/textured reflector). I don't recommend the Lux 602D, because the reflector is pretty bad, but the textured one is pretty good.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3379
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3351

I don't recommend these:

Dexlight X.V: very bad threads http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2944

DX Cree: low quality
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1892

The Ultrafires are very easy to mod, because they don't use threadlock to assemble the body, and the light pill unscrews easily. On the downside, they don't use thermal paste either.

Toshi


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## BSCOTT1504 (Aug 20, 2007)

The best place to purchase Chinese lights is the Fenix-Store!!


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## bimemrboy318 (Aug 20, 2007)

Well, I wanted the HA-III 602D but they were back ordered. Instead, I went with the Ultrafire C2 in HA-III. If this light goes well, I'll likely be back for more. As far as durable... I ment dropped on a rare occasion and tolerate being left in a glove compartment with lithiums until needed.


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## wakibaki (Aug 22, 2007)

'Quantity has a quality all it's own'' - JS

w


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## sysadmn (Aug 22, 2007)

I'd second TMorita's thoughts. For what they cost, they can be good values. I'm not sure what he means by abuse them, but I buy cheap lights so I _can _abuse them . I have one of the 602's (I think it's the A, with a luxeon or low end cree); I take it apart constantly to poke at it, try new batteries, etc, but I'm always aware I could wear out threads, put the tube out of round, etc. I don't have those concerns with my Fenix - it just seems more solid. Same with fit - the Ultrafires can be tight or sloppy; the Fenixes don't seem to be.

I'd add an additional caveat - some finishes aren't as durable as you might expect. I EDC the Ultrafire WF-502B, a black 2XCR123a clone that runs P60-type lamp assemblies. It's heavy with a thick bezel and tube walls, transfers heat well, has a glass lens, and the switch has held up well for me. But it's already showing wear (bright metal) on the edges of the crenelated bezel. It's aluminum, so it's not like the metal will rust, but it's definitely not anodized. I'm still happy because I bought it as a tool to use, not a toy to display and because I got it for $12 delivered. I cringe at every time I drop my E1E - I put the 502 in a pocket of change or toss it in the junk drawer without a second thought.


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## fixitman (Aug 22, 2007)

From DealExtreme, I have the MTE 5 mode 1AA (actually have 3) and they are very good for the money. They all survived my drop test (8' drop onto hard surface, 3 times) with no issues. Runtimes were ok. Max brightness was slightly lower than my Fenix L2Dce on high.

For CR123 power, I have the UltraFire C2, and its a great light. Costs about $22 and is very reliable and very bright. Slightly brighter and with better throw than my Fenix L2Dce. My C2 does have a small dark ring in the beam between the spot and the spill, but it does not bother me. Its a little big for every day carry, but its just the right size for grabbing to check out bumps in the night.


Stay away from the DX simply cree, unless you want to spend time working on it. Out of the 3 I ordered, one did not work at all, and I could not get it running. One flickered alot, but I managed to fix it. The 3rd worked ok. None made it through the first drop on the drop test. Managed to fix the 2 that had worked originally, but it was alot of work. They are not very bright, but have great runtimes (over 4 hours).


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## mattblick (Aug 25, 2007)

I am new to CPF but have thoughts concerning the enjoyable banter going on in this thread.

In any enthusiast hobby there will be expensive products that are considered "the best". I feel you can be part of and can enjoy the hobby without the best. I have too many pricey hobbies, and just added flashlights to the long list. In my experience you can get enthusiast level performance without buying "the best" and the *LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURNS* always comes into play.

An Audiophile can hear exquisite audio reproduction without Krell Amplifiers and Wilson Audio X1 Grand Slam loudspeakers. There is a very high end audio store called Progressive Audio on High Street across from The Ohio State University. While attending college there I would regularly go in and listen to my CDs on speakers that cost $120,000 a pair. My $800 Vandersteen 1C speakers powered by a $600 NAD amplifier give me at least 90% of the performance of the $250K+ setup. People are always floored when they listen to the accurate reproduction and superb imaging of my stereo. How many people have Adcom Amplifiers and KEF Q10s as their PC speakers? The audiophile bug left me unhappy with computer speakers, but I don't need an Air Forsell and Totem setup on the PC. I can't watch TV with the inferior distorted garbled sound the TV speakers produce. I don't need $15K M&K speakers powered by a 10K Sunfire amp to enjoy better than the theater sound in my living room though. I have Axiom speakers powered by an Onkyo receiver for under a grand investment. I am an audiophile, people laugh at the money I "waste" on audio reproduction, yet there are other audiophiles that pay more for a single length of speaker wire than I have invested in all of my equipment combined. To them that wire is worth the extra tiny bit of performance they can squeeze out of their system.

A cigar connoisseur can enjoy the finest tobacoo without smoking $150 1980s Dunhill Cabinettas. I thoroughly enjoyed the Cabinetta that was gifted to me but wouldn't ever consider buying one myself... *EVER*. I have been smoking $2 Tabacalera Tropical Condegas and $8 Pete Johnson Cabaiguans and get 98% as much enjoyment out of these cigars as I did the rare 20 year old Cuban cigar. I can afford to smoke as many cigars a week as I can sneak by my wife..  If I required aged Cubans to enjoy cigars I could smoke very few each year..

I also enjoy the worlds of high end coffee, tea, photography, fly fishing, backpacking, computers, etc. and each of these enthusiast hobbies have their own respective "best". In each case *you don't have to purchase the best to enjoy enthusiast level performace.

*Many of the $15 DX light are going to be enthusiast level performing flashlights. You can bet your butt that drastically diminishing returns will come into play versus a $300 light. If you can afford to spend the extra $285 for an extra 10% in performance or reliability than the best may be for you. Of course for LEOs and the Military there is no question they require the extra. I don't.

If I ascribed to the "buy the best" philosophy however there is no way I could enjoy enthusiast level performance in so many hobbies. There are those that can afford the best in all of their hobbies; I am not one of them. I try to find the sweet spot of price/performance in all of my pursuits.

I have 3 DX lights on the way: A Dexlight Sapphire Crystal CREE, Ultrafire 602C SSC, and MTE 5-Mode CR123A Rebel 0100. Browsing the comments on that site and reviews here I am pretty certain I won't regret the purchase of any of them. I also bought a LiteFlux LF3 on the CPF Marketplace. It will be interesting to see how the $18 lights perform versus the $45 and $52 lights. I am not tempted to buy a $150 or $300 flashlight. I still believe however I am a budding flashaholic..

-Matt-


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## Elliot (Aug 27, 2007)

I've had the HA-III 602D for over a month and use it every day. It's been dropped, banged about and "lost" in my pants pocket. I could not be happier with it. I just ordered one of the multi-mode Rebel 100s. And of course, who could complain about the DX $0.46 keychain lights.

Elliot


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## Bror Jace (Aug 27, 2007)

_"I just ordered one of the multi-mode Rebel 100s."_

Is there anyone here who has _not_ ordered one of these lights? No wonder mine have been back ordered!


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## gromit (Aug 28, 2007)

mattblick said:


> I am new to CPF but have thoughts concerning the enjoyable banter going on in this thread.
> 
> In any enthusiast hobby there will be expensive products that are considered "the best". I feel you can be part of and can enjoy the hobby without the best. I have too many pricey hobbies, and just added flashlights to the long list. In my experience you can get enthusiast level performance without buying "the best" and the *LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURNS* always comes into play.
> 
> ...



I am one of those that have the wire costing more than your complete system, Kimber Select. I started my audio hobby, obsession, over 20 years ago and spent lots of time and money trying the killer cheap-o, product of the day, what ever it was from the armor-all your CD's to the cable lifters. Yes some made differences and others, I think people thought that they could tell a difference when there wasn't. I can tell that you enjoy your system and I'm glade that you do. I have worked hard and built my system beyond the point where you stopped. Nothing wrong with either way of doing it. I enjoy my Revel, Musical Fidelity, Kimber, and Sota system very much. It is a ego thing when my friends come over and I play a record for them, they never knew that a record could sound better than a CD. I just say on the right system. Enough about audio stuff, this is CPF.

There is a law of diminishing returns as well as a system or product is only as good as its weakest link. 
There are products designed to hit a price point, and there are products designed for performance level. 
I'll agree that a Fenix has 80% the quality of a McGizmo, but until you handle a McG, you won't understand.


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## bimemrboy318 (Aug 28, 2007)

Just got my C2-HAIII today! I'm going back for more! Can't see anything that wasn't worth the $23 I spent for this light!

Definitely like the brightness factor of this light. Any suggestions on other DX lights this bright but also have the same size factor?


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## fishx65 (Aug 28, 2007)

Been using the DX 5 mode MTE SSC P4 everynight since I got it about 3 weeks ago. Super smooth beam, very bright, switch and modes work fine and it seems very durable and well made on the outside. Don't really care what it looks like on the inside as long as it keeps functioning well. The one I have has a perfect white tint according to my eyes. This one seems to get pretty good reviews on here. Still waiting on the single mode MTE to show up in the mail. I would say that these are about three times brighter then my 1AA luxeons.


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## bimemrboy318 (Aug 29, 2007)

Bror Jace said:


> _"I just ordered one of the multi-mode Rebel 100s."_
> 
> Is there anyone here who has _not_ ordered one of these lights? No wonder mine have been back ordered!



Which one are you referring to?


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## bimemrboy318 (Aug 29, 2007)

fishx65 said:


> Been using the DX 5 mode MTE SSC P4 everynight since I got it about 3 weeks ago. Super smooth beam, very bright, switch and modes work fine and it seems very durable and well made on the outside. Don't really care what it looks like on the inside as long as it keeps functioning well. The one I have has a perfect white tint according to my eyes. This one seems to get pretty good reviews on here. Still waiting on the single mode MTE to show up in the mail. I would say that these are about three times brighter then my 1AA luxeons.



Which one are you referring to. I see 3 different 5-mode rebels on DX:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6162
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6104
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4862


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## mattblick (Aug 30, 2007)

[Threadjack] Kimber Select, Revel, Music Fidelity, Sota:  :twothumbs.. Nice gear you have there! I went with MIT Terminator 2 interconnects and cable on my music system to keep the Vandies brightness down a tad. I have Audioquest Type 4 cable and Optilink G interconnect on the Home Theatre. I am playing with the "HD-14" cable that was all the rage on audio asylum between the Adcom and Kefs on my PC, but it will be replaced. Audioholicism is a very serious disease; I count myself fortunate that I can be content with my Vandies for now. I went through 8 different pairs of mini-monitors in the late 90s before buying the 1Cs. Vinyl rocks and once my toddlers are older I am eyeballing a Rega P3 as my analog source. Right now I am digital with a NAD C542. [/Threadjack]

I understand what you mean "until you handle a McGizmo you wouldn't understand." Anyone who sits down and listens to that Krell/Wilson system or the Air Forsell/Avalon system at Progressive understands that it is the pinnacle of audio reproduction. I imagine the McGizmo experience is similar.

Your "strong as weakest link" is very applicable to flashlights as it is audio. Stong as weakest link should be a stressed Law, just as diminishing returns is. The high quality Chinese lights such as Fenix have a very strong link in their best emitters sooner approach; having the newest LED gives you a performance edge. They have high efficiency circuitry only bested by custom ones. The substaintially more expensive lights only seem to have better grips and clickies from what I have read as newbie here. There are members that seem to have big issues with reverse clickies for instance. Ergonomics and feel would be very important in situations that require a flashlight to provide tactical performance. I pay extra for ergonomics and feel on my Sage fly rods to (attempt to) improve my casts. At this point I pesonally don't feel I require tactical performance from my flashlight; however I do want to have a bright LED and efficient circuitry. I recently decided to EDC a light and that is what brought me here. With a Fenix/JetBeam/LiteFlux or other HQ Chinese light I will get the performance of the latest LED link. I will also have the performance of Li Ion batteries, glass lens, aluminum reflector, etc etc. 

I really like what Bror Jace said, "For people who understand the spirit of what it is to be an enthusiast (regardless of the hobby/specialty in question) it's _all good_."



gromit said:


> I am one of those that have the wire costing more than your complete system, Kimber Select. I started my audio hobby, obsession, over 20 years ago and spent lots of time and money trying the killer cheap-o, product of the day, what ever it was from the armor-all your CD's to the cable lifters. Yes some made differences and others, I think people thought that they could tell a difference when there wasn't. I can tell that you enjoy your system and I'm glade that you do. I have worked hard and built my system beyond the point where you stopped. Nothing wrong with either way of doing it. I enjoy my Revel, Musical Fidelity, Kimber, and Sota system very much. It is a ego thing when my friends come over and I play a record for them, they never knew that a record could sound better than a CD. I just say on the right system. Enough about audio stuff, this is CPF.
> 
> There is a law of diminishing returns as well as a system or product is only as good as its weakest link.
> There are products designed to hit a price point, and there are products designed for performance level.
> I'll agree that a Fenix has 80% the quality of a McGizmo, but until you handle a McG, you won't understand.


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## Elliot (Aug 31, 2007)

I ordered the MTE 5-Mode 100 Lumens Rebel Flashlight (AA / 0100 BIN) SKU 6162, http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6162 sorry if I added to the run on them.

Elliot


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## mattblick (Aug 31, 2007)

Elliot said:


> I ordered the MTE 5-Mode 100 Lumens Rebel Flashlight (AA / 0100 BIN) SKU 6162, http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6162 sorry if I added to the run on them.
> 
> Elliot



Mine already shipped, so fine by me.. 

I almost ordered the new Ultrafire FMR-1 this morning but it seems too long for a single cell 123 light. I bet it is due to the side clickie. 
While on the site I noticed the VB-16 was FINALLY back in stock so I ordered one of those instead..


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