# 5.11 Light for Life - reviews and opinions



## hoppyjr (May 2, 2009)

Hello to all -

I have been quite busy with work and have been away for some time - and it's good to be back. That said, I searched and only found one "working" thread on this new light and nothing on reviews, etc. so I am posting this in a new thread. If I'm missing something, maybe a Moderator could slap me and move this. Finally, I am not an employee or associate of 5.11 Tactical, nor do I have any vested interested in the product. I will provide a link to the website where I found some details (below). I really do have the lights and these are my personal real-world opinions, so please don't waste posting space by saying negative things about my post (you don't really have it, prove it, etc), as I'm not interested. Now, on to the good part!

Yesterday, while visiting a law enforcement supply store in California (see below) I noticed that they had a working display of the new "5.11 Tactical" Light for Life. I have only learned of these new lights recently, while browsing the new 5.11 Tactical catalog, so I was surprised to see one out so soon. While looking at the very impressive demo, I learned that the store had received some in yesterday and all were sold except two. I jumped at the chance and grabbed those two and ordered 6 more for my team. I have not taken photos, nor beamshots and will not have time because we have company visiting this weekend, but I wanted to share my initial observations on this excellent new product;

- The light is approximately the same size as the Streamlight SL20 that many of us in law enforcement have carried for years. The 5.11 Light for Life is much lighter however. It is also completely sealed.
- The head is six-sided to prevent rolling and the lens appears to be polycarbonate an held down by six hex-head screws.
- The switch is well made and operates as follows; click on (low setting) and push and hold for high (from either off mode or low/on mode). Click twice from off to activate 'strobe' mode. The switch appears to be secured in the body by four small phillips head screws.
- The beam pattern and throw are outstanding, IMHO. The pattern is best described as a nice hotspot with good spill (I'm not an expert) and is like two "rounded end triangles" which overlap to provide almost a flower looking six-rounded petals kind of thing. Think of the Jewish "Star of David" but with the points rounded off and you get the idea. This design allows for overlap in the spill and appears quite effective.
- The throw/output/color of the 5.11 LFL is also nice. I have a few lights for comparison; The 'low mode' appears to produce about the same as my Surefire L4, but with a better hotspot. Compared to my Malkoff/Maglight 3D, the low on the 5.11 LFL seems slightly less in "actual" visual output in the hotspot, while the high mode appears to be brighter. The spill on both modes appear to me to be stronger that my Malkoff (I LOVE my Malkoff, thanks again Gene!). In my opinion, the throw is outstanding! On low mode, I see this as a practical light with good "usability", while high mode can be used for added boost and/or defensive purposed very effectively. I cannot see how to activate the high mode continuously, but I may have missed something (not much time to play). Finally, the color of the beam appears to be very white, with no distinct color tone to my eyes.
- Now, the best part, charging! I opened the box and removed the new light and confirmed that it was completely discharged, dead, nothing. I plugged the charging base into my cigarette lighter (only a DC charger for now, but you can use an DC/AC converter) and dropped the light into the base. A blue LED on the base begins flashing, about once per second and flashes faster as the charge nears completion, finally becoming solid when fully-charged. I timed it with my cars clock and it was fully charged in well under two minutes - IT REALLY WAS!!! 

To sum this up - SIMPLY AMAZING!!!!!!!!

The technology is really impressive. I may have missed something while I have been away, but I don't know of anything like this - especially for the price (about $169). Being the early-adopter geek that I really am (don't tell my "cool" friends, they wouldn't understand) I appreciate the innovation on this one and I expect to see it make the "Best of 2009" in several geek type publications.

Now, here's a scoop for my fellow light geeks - a source, who will absolutely remain confidential (sorry) advised that there is ongoing development of a smaller version of this light, say Poly-Stinger size or so. It would likely have a variation of switch and charging method methods but will employ the same overall capacitor technology and design elements. I'd expect output to be slightly reduced, but with advancements in LED technology, who knows. I would guess we may see one by early 2010, so I would not let that prevent you from grabbing one of the current ones. 

Again, I have no connection with the makers or sellers of this light - that said, IT IS AMAZING!!!!!

I hope you enjoyed my review.

Hoppy


http://www.511tactical.com/lightforlife.html

If this is OK, I will say that I purchased the light from "Kip" at LC Action, in San Jose CA. He is a good guy, so you can tell him Ed sent you if you wish


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## Marduke (May 2, 2009)

hoppyjr said:


> Hello to all -
> 
> I have been quite busy with work and have been away for some time - and it's good to be back. *That said, I searched and only found one thread on this new light *and nothing on reviews, etc. so I am posting this in a new thread. If I'm missing something, maybe a Moderator could slap me and move this.



You sure about that?? There are countless threads on this light, many duplicates and thereby closed due to their respective OP's not utilizing the search function.


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## hoppyjr (May 2, 2009)

Well Marduke.........I DID use the search function. Maybe I'm just retarded, so how about throwing some rocks my way ;-)

I searched 5.11, 5.11 Tactical, Light for Life, 5.11 Light, 5.11 Light for Life, etc. in every combination I could find. In fact, I spent about 15-20 minutes just searching. In each case, I only found two threads on the light - one was the long one for discussion and a second one, which was consolidated after two posts. I did NOT find any threads on reviews or user opinions, so I elected to start one. The only thread I found (below) was seven pages long and I didn't think that adding to it for reviews was a great idea. Finally, I only found those threads by searching Google, as nothing I searched here produced anything. 

I said in the beginning of my post that a Mod could move this if they deemed appropriate and they can. I posted this to provide some information for other interested parties here, so I am quite sorry if that offended you.

Try to be helpful and see where that gets me....... 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/207339&page=7


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## :)> (May 2, 2009)

I was interested in hearing about experiences with this light. I am primarily interested in the runtime / output. 90 Second charging is very attractive!


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## Bushman5 (May 2, 2009)

great review, i look forward to a more indepth one when you and the team have used the lights for a while. 

I'm still waiting on my local dealer to bring them in, but have had about a minute to play with the demo model. It was completely discharged and the owner charged it up in 88 seconds using jumper leads and a 12 volt gel cell.. Quite impressive, as was the beamshots.


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## hoppyjr (May 2, 2009)

Hi Goatee......

I'll try to run a full discharge / charge / discharge tonight if time permits. Heck, the charging part will be easy


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## DM51 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks for this thread, hoppyjr. I've closed the other one, which was showing its age and going nowhere. 

This is a very good report on this light. There's been a lot of speculation about it, so I'm sure members will find your experiences of it useful.


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## Chowser (May 2, 2009)

Nice review, I am going to order one today. EPS has a sale going on where you can send in your old light (working or not) for some store credit, so I will get rid of my old mag charger which doesn't work anymore.


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## L.E.D. (May 2, 2009)

I've been craving this light for a LONG time now... What I'm very curious about is if the output is regulated or not. To your eye, does it hold it's brightness well for the 60 minutes of 90 lumens, as well as the 15 minutes of 270 lumens??


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## PhantomPhoton (May 2, 2009)

I very much appreciate your first peek at the real deal. I look forward to more info if you find time to give it.


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## hoppyjr (May 5, 2009)

*UPDATE: 5.11 Light for Life - reviews and opinions*

Hello folks,

I was able to run one test and here are that results;

With the light in 'standard' mode (approx 90+ lumens) I timed 30 minutes of solid runtime, all appeared to be regulated as the beam was consistent for that time. After 30 minutes, it stepped down to the 'low' mode for another 60 minutes. 

These numbers were all after I had been playing with the 'high' mode for about five minutes.

I found even the 'low' mode to be sufficient for walking in the dark, or general use (think non-LED lights for an idea). I would not consider 'low' acceptable for tactical use.

Also, when charging from the car (12v) it is fully charged in 90 seconds or so. When I used a small DC/AC plug in converter (cell phone type) I noticed that after five minutes of charging, it was not fully juiced up, so there must be a volt/amp requirement.

So far, it's an outstanding light


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## n4zov (May 5, 2009)

Many thanks for taking the initiative and posting something concrete on this interesting new light! Clearly a successful capacitor powered light has the potential to revolutionize flashlight design, and it is going to be interesting to watch reactions as this lights hits the market.


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## hoppyjr (May 5, 2009)

Glad to be of service 

I like the latest tech toys, phones, guns, watches, etc.(basically, I big tech nerd but it's a secret). With that said, I compare my personal amazement at this light and new battery technology to that of the LED digital watch introduction, way back in the day!

I have more on order!!!


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## hoppyjr (May 5, 2009)

*SAFETY UPDATE*

******** SAFETY UPDATE ********

Well, some bad news.........a representative from my dealer called me today to advise that the first batch of 5.11 lights that were shipped have a defect of some type. These lights can apparently overheat and there is afire risk involved, so I am dropping it off at the 5.11 factory this week. I am assured that they have found the 'fix' and that future lights will not have the issue, whatever it may be.

I am not discouraged by this, as it's new tech and seems reasonable to me. I will post an update when I know something more.

Take care!


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## dano (May 5, 2009)

*Re: SAFETY UPDATE*



hoppyjr said:


> ******** SAFETY UPDATE ********
> 
> Well, some bad news.........a representative from my dealer called me today to advise that the first batch of 5.11 lights that were shipped have a defect of some type. These lights can apparently overheat and there is afire risk involved, so I am dropping it off at the 5.11 factory this week. I am assured that they have found the 'fix' and that future lights will not have the issue, whatever it may be.
> 
> ...



I'd think that this type of risk would have been ironed out in design and pre-testing. It's not something that should have been overlooked.


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## Dr Jekell (May 5, 2009)

*Re: SAFETY UPDATE*



dano said:


> I'd think that this type of risk would have been ironed out in design and pre-testing. It's not something that should have been overlooked.



There is no substitute for real world usage.


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## Henk_Lu (May 6, 2009)

When I was younger, I also bought new techs to be up to date and accepted being a tester who is willing to pay much for his toys...

Nowadays I preffer to wait until a technology has proven that it's the future in its domain, I pay less and get more. The choice is up to you and each technology needs its fans who pay for it or it'll never be the future.

Nothing was ever invented perfect, perfection comes out of trial-error.


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## Mr_Black (May 10, 2009)

*Re: SAFETY UPDATE*



hoppyjr said:


> ******** SAFETY UPDATE ********
> 
> Well, some bad news.........a representative from my dealer called me today to advise that the first batch of 5.11 lights that were shipped have a defect of some type. These lights can apparently overheat and there is afire risk involved, so I am dropping it off at the 5.11 factory this week. I am assured that they have found the 'fix' and that future lights will not have the issue, whatever it may be.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the news. My buddy (a local LEO) was about to buy one of these lights for duty use so I made sure to tell him about this safety issue. In the meantime I'm going to suggest that he check out this forum and introduce him to some new lights. This forum is great!


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## hoppyjr (May 10, 2009)

*** UPDATE ***

I'm dropping off my 5.11 LFL this week at the 5.11 offices in California. I talked with a rep who advised this is a relatively easy fix and should be good to go within about another week or two. Any lights that were shipped were called back and anything you see in stores after mid-May or so should be fine.

With the frenzy that I'm hearing exists about this light, I'd get on the order list soon.


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## Tsujigiri (May 10, 2009)

What do the capacitors look like? Is the power supply something that could possibly be modified to fit in a CR123 light?


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## Big_Ed (May 10, 2009)

Where is this light manufactured? USA?


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## hoppyjr (May 10, 2009)

Tsujigiri - Since the light is completely sealed, I have no idea what the capacitors look like. I'd imagine that a retrofit would not fit inside a Modded CR123 light.

Big_Ed - I cannot find any "made in ......." markings on the light or the box. I know that 5.11 Tactical has their offices in Modesto, California.


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## HKJ (May 10, 2009)

Tsujigiri said:


> What do the capacitors look like? Is the power supply something that could possibly be modified to fit in a CR123 light?



You would probably not want to replace you CR123 with ultracaps, they have a rather low capacity compared to batteries. But I am curious how big the ones used in the 5.11 light are.


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## hoppyjr (May 12, 2009)

Update.....

I dropped of the light the 5.11 Tactical offices this morning. The representative advised that they had a 'possible' issue with the charger and wanted to re-check each one to ensure all is OK. They expect to have the 'verified' lights in the wild by the end of this month.

I'm ordering two dozen more.


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## dano (May 13, 2009)

hoppyjr said:


> Tsujigiri - Since the light is completely sealed, I have no idea what the capacitors look like. I'd imagine that a retrofit would not fit inside a Modded CR123 light.
> 
> Big_Ed - I cannot find any "made in ......." markings on the light or the box. I know that 5.11 Tactical has their offices in Modesto, California.



Aren't these lights based off a design from a Russian company?


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## Justin Case (May 13, 2009)

Here's my opinion. It's great to see supercapacitors being commercially utilized and as the technology advances, such products should really show their advantages. However, I personally do not see what the big deal is with this light. It is big and the run time is poor. For less than half the price, I can get a Malkoff Maglite drop-in for a 2C Maglite (or mod the 2C Mag myself), and get comparable max output with a much longer run time in a smaller package. As for the 90 sec recharge time, I can go to my vehicle, extract two spare C cells, and load them in 90 sec as well. The difference is that I won't have to do that for about 4 hours, whereas the 5.11 light runs out of gas in 15 min for peak mode followed by 60 min of standby mode (or 60 min for standard mode and 60 min for standby). And I can carry the batteries with me. I don't need to use a charger, which requires a source of power (vehicle power outlet or an AC wall outlet). Until 5.11 develops a portable recharging solution, IMO the 90 sec recharge time is an irrelevant performance measure.

Also, the 5.11 light appears to be sealed (or at least the ultracapacitor is, not sure about the head), making future end user mods and upgrades harder. We all know that LED performance will continue to increase. All I have to do is open the Maglite head, and drop in a new Malkoff module (e.g., his P7). It is true that for the Malkoff P7 drop-in in a 2C Mag, I will also have to do some additional modification to the tailcap to accommodate 2x18650 to drive the drop-in, but it is a very easy mod. Or I can use the new IMR26500 cells, which will require some light sanding to enlarge the Mag tube diameter.

The ultracapacitor seems to have poor self-discharge rate as well. 5.11 claims the capacity drops to 50% after one month.


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## berry580 (May 13, 2009)

I kind of agree with Justin Case. 15 mins of high mode is inadequate.

Given it's size and price, I could get a flashlight (e.g. Jetbeam M1X) with many times its performance (power and duration wise) with enough change to get a charger and a load of 18650s enough for a week worth of normal usage without needing to recharge.


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## mobile1 (Jun 22, 2009)

We've been looking into building a supercap lights for probably 2 years now.. and have looked at options to make them work. With a bunch of supercap units.

The main problem seemed that you get about 10% of the power you get in a battery, so even though they are light, they get bulky and big and low runtimes.

Now something still does not quite add up with that light... either they are using some revolutionary new higher cap capacitors.... I'd be interested in what boost caps they are using... my guess is Maxwell, but still runtime seems longer then what it should be.

And quite honestly while the light is quite a feat in what they tried to accomplish (charging/discharge) with the variable voltage, I think they could have done much better with the UI and features... there's an entire new set of features that are possible with boostcaps, but these guys haven't really thought it through yet.
I think the future will be boost caps. Who is the manufacturer of that light and the boost caps?


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## Bushman5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Justin Case said:


> Here's my opinion. It's great to see supercapacitors being commercially utilized and as the technology advances, such products should really show their advantages. However, I personally do not see what the big deal is with this light. It is big and the run time is poor. For less than half the price, I can get a Malkoff Maglite drop-in for a 2C Maglite (or mod the 2C Mag myself), and get comparable max output with a much longer run time in a smaller package. As for the 90 sec recharge time, I can go to my vehicle, extract two spare C cells, and load them in 90 sec as well. The difference is that I won't have to do that for about 4 hours, whereas the 5.11 light runs out of gas in 15 min for peak mode followed by 60 min of standby mode (or 60 min for standard mode and 60 min for standby). And I can carry the batteries with me. I don't need to use a charger, which requires a source of power (vehicle power outlet or an AC wall outlet). Until 5.11 develops a portable recharging solution, IMO the 90 sec recharge time is an irrelevant performance measure.
> 
> Also, the 5.11 light appears to be sealed (or at least the ultracapacitor is, not sure about the head), making future end user mods and upgrades harder. We all know that LED performance will continue to increase. All I have to do is open the Maglite head, and drop in a new Malkoff module (e.g., his P7). It is true that for the Malkoff P7 drop-in in a 2C Mag, I will also have to do some additional modification to the tailcap to accommodate 2x18650 to drive the drop-in, but it is a very easy mod. Or I can use the new IMR26500 cells, which will require some light sanding to enlarge the Mag tube diameter.
> 
> The ultracapacitor seems to have poor self-discharge rate as well. 5.11 claims the capacity drops to 50% after one month.



the big deal is the fast recharge time, which in the field (say on a SAR mission) is critical. No longer do searchers have to carry spare cells with them (extra weight). As well the big deal is the lack of batteries ending up in the landfills, so from a green point of view this light is getting major kudos. 

:twothumbs


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## Justin Case (Jun 22, 2009)

Bushman5 said:


> the big deal is the fast recharge time, which in the field (say on a SAR mission) is critical. No longer do searchers have to carry spare cells with them (extra weight). As well the big deal is the lack of batteries ending up in the landfills, so from a green point of view this light is getting major kudos.
> 
> :twothumbs



So where are you going to find an AC outlet for the charger in the field during SAR? If you are going to depend on plugging it into your vehicle's 12VDC source, then you may as well just carry extra batts IMO. At least I don't need to be near a car or an outlet. And I can swap batteries in 90 sec anyway.


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## dano (Jun 22, 2009)

Anyone know the status on these? Seems like they released a few, then had issues, and up to now, no word on the light.


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## Bushman5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Justin Case said:


> So where are you going to find an AC outlet for the charger in the field during SAR? If you are going to depend on plugging it into your vehicle's 12VDC source, then you may as well just carry extra batts IMO. At least I don't need to be near a car or an outlet. And I can swap batteries in 90 sec anyway.



at the Mobile Command post, or in the chopper, or off the ATV/ARGO 12V outlets, off a genset 12V outlet. The members are never that far from a vehicle or command post, plus the runners between teams and command can always swap out lights or bring a genny to the area. 

Not saying its the best thing ever but pretty damn sweet to be able to recharge that fast.

I would love to see MUCH bigger lights like this, set up like the PELICAN RALS. Stuff 50 of the supercaps into a Pelican case and add a extend able boom with about 500 MCE leds on it, and you would have a ultralight hand portable floodlight system. 

there is no limit to the possibilities this technology will bring. Big diesel belching genset lights that weigh 5000lbs, replaced by a 100 lb unit that has no emissions and tons of light, and fast recharge times.....

the 5.11 light is the tip of the iceberg.


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## mobile1 (Jun 23, 2009)

This light unfortunately missed out on the real improvements... they focus too much on the 90 seconds.. which is nice but not mission critical. There's better use cases if that light would have been designed just a bit better...


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## berry580 (Jun 23, 2009)

The idea is wonderful (recharge in 90 secs), but the end product isn't.
15 mins on a SAR mission? Give me a break.

Would you even be able get back to the command post in 15 mins?
If its a return trip, you get 7.5mins of searching time, probably enough for my girl to search for her keys.


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## Justin Case (Jun 23, 2009)

Bushman5 said:


> at the Mobile Command post, or in the chopper, or off the ATV/ARGO 12V outlets, off a genset 12V outlet. The members are never that far from a vehicle or command post, plus the runners between teams and command can always swap out lights or bring a genny to the area.



So the solution is always to be close to an outlet or generator (that also has the specific charger for the 5.11 light)? Sounds a bit restrictive. And with the short 15 min runtime in the max mode, the logistics also look rather poor. You are going to have a lot of folks needing recharges constantly.

No thanks.


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## dougie (Jun 23, 2009)

The crucial question is will the LEO market jump on this bandwagon or not? The two biggest selling points are not having to buy batteries and the fact that you can have it in a car/home or whatever for years and then simply charge it up very quickly without the concerns that you would have with battery powered lights. The down side is the size,limited output and very poor runtimes compared to most battery powered lights. 

For quick roadside or traffic checks this light 'may' just about cut it. However for the majority of users the problems of having to recharge the light after less than 15 minutes of high or 30 minutes of low will be the problem.

For S&R or when I need a long running light I've got a Pelican 8060 which will run for 4-6 hours on a charge or the whole night on disposable alkalines. To me the 5.11 light offers a potential glimpse of the future when ultracaps 'may' provide a few hours of light on one charge but it isn't anything I'd personally run out and buy at the moment YMMV.


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## Justin Case (Jun 23, 2009)

The self-discharge rate for the supercapacitor used in the 5.11 light is poor. Is it good enough for LEO use? Don't know. But I know it's not for me. I don't want to have to charge up a light that is powered by a proprietary system, for which who knows where I might have stashed the charger N months ago.


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## Tora (Jun 24, 2009)

I too was thinking about the 5-11 when I learned about it last year. That is, until I learned about the lack of output and run time while being oversized. The recharge time can't make up for the frequency of charges and lack of dependable runtime. As an Officer, the flashlight/s we carry must be bright and must put out for a great length of time. There are simply far superior flashlights that are rechargeable, cost less, out perform, smaller in size, more rugged...an Officer simply shouldn't have a flashlight that large now days. It was only necessary in the past because of a lack of performance in the smaller sized flashlights. For search and rescue or even a felony car stop.... it simply would turn into a club in 15 min. 

The only plus is environmental. 

Tell that to your Sgt. when your light unexpectedly gives out in a critical moment. :nana:

I am not angry at you...just at 511. There is no way this should have gone to any critical task area. As a home flashlight...maybe. But what homeowner would pay that much for it?


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## n4zov (Aug 8, 2009)

Any news on when this light is going to be available again? It is listed on the 5.11 website but nothing on availability - or at least not the last time I looked a week ago.


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## dano (Aug 9, 2009)

n4zov said:


> Any news on when this light is going to be available again? It is listed on the 5.11 website but nothing on availability - or at least not the last time I looked a week ago.



I'd bet that it's been put on hold indefinitely, due to the specs and reliability. IMO, it is not suitable as a duty light or tac. light.


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## nick__45 (Aug 9, 2009)

:)> said:


> I was interested in hearing about experiences with this light. I am primarily interested in the runtime / output. 90 Second charging is very attractive!



90 seconds, I got to get me something like that. On second thought, why does such a big flashlight only have 15 minutes run time. Isn't that a little stupid. They should make it a 15 minutes charging time and a run time of 10 hrs. People won't be needing to charge as often. This light is perfect for people needing a light to find their way to a portable restroom for number 1 and they can recharge it in their car RIGHT AWAY before going back to sleep. Whoever thought about the spec should to put on time-out/suspension.


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## Flenser (Aug 10, 2009)

nick__45 said:


> ...why does such a big flashlight only have 15 minutes run time. Isn't that a little stupid. [...] Whoever thought about the spec should to put on time-out/suspension.



It's a new-ish technology: ultracapacitors. The advantages of the technology (90 second recharge time!) may outweigh the negatives (size, self-discharge rate, runtime) for some people.

I'm all for people bringing new technology to market. It should, at the least, get other people interested in ultracapacitors, so that further advances can be made.

Having said that, I doubt I'll get one, at least at this point. I like the small-and-bright variety of lights. Although I really liked the Husky 2D light saber (that thing could throw!), until the switch seized up and I returned it.


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## vic303 (Aug 25, 2009)

n4zov said:


> Any news on when this light is going to be available again? It is listed on the 5.11 website but nothing on availability - or at least not the last time I looked a week ago.


 In stock now. $169.99 with free shipping.
Got a promo email from 5.11 today on this light. Ad says 270 peak lumens, strobe, with 60min run at 90lumens, and reduced output in reserve mode after that for 60min. Main web link gives reduced output specs of 15min at 25lumens then down again to 15 lumens for 30 min. Certainly an improvement over the initial runtimes reported.


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## jchoo (Aug 25, 2009)

Man are you guys missing the point entirely. This light isn't designed for SAR use, nor for home emergencies, or for us flashaholics. It is designed for the beat cops, the ones that spend 12 (hopefully uneventful) hours a night in their car, with the light getting a quick top off after a traffic stop, MVA, or alarm call. No more will some poor schmuck grab a duty light off of the charging bank to find that its battery won't last but 5 minutes, or has a burnt out bulb, or was just put back on by someone coming off shift. When out on patrol, he won't spend an hour at a wreck and then have to wait 4 hours for his nicd light to recharge and have to use a backup light on the next call 10 minutes later - he will have a fully charged LFL. It's not easy to discount this kind of readiness, even if you're not a cop. We (my rescue squad) also keep a rack of Streamlight Ultra Stingers on charge at all times on our crash truck - with incandescent bulbs that can and will break, and nicd batteries that can and will die. If these were LFLs we would never again have this sort of problem.

IMO the LFL is designed to meet very specific needs - and that it does. It's not a mass market light, but it is also far more than just an exercise in engineering.


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## Haz (Aug 26, 2009)

The concept of this light is great, everytime the energy is depleted you only need to stop for a quick pitstop to recharge, no need to change batteries. Depending on your utility, this set up is actually quite useful.


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## coolperl (Aug 26, 2009)

If anyone is interested in this light, here is a very good scientific review (some physics involved):

http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2009/01/13/ultracapacitors-versus-batteries-no-holds-barred/


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## steamfish (Sep 11, 2009)

BrightGuy.com has 'em as a new item for $160.

http://www.brightguy.com/products/5.11_Light_for_Life_UC3.400.php#


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## Hawk600 (Sep 11, 2009)

And for the ones asking previously, the specs says "made in China"....


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## mpkav (Sep 12, 2009)

I am a LEO and will not even consider this light. 270 Lumens is nice but for 15 minutes? Maybe 30? NO WAY. I have a million other things going on while working, putting my light back on the charger EVERY time I get in the car is not practical. For the price I could buy countless lights and AW rechargeables. Olight M30, 700 lumens with 2.5 hours runtime on high with AW's. On a 2 hour K9 track for armed suspects the last thing I can afford is my light going dead. With the 5.11 I guess i could count on it going dead. I have used 5.11 products for about 6 years now and think their quality is really getting bad. I refuse to wear their boots anymore but still do wear the TDU uniform. Just my sheltered 2 cents but I think for the money there are by far better choices out there.


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## sandmanusd (Sep 25, 2009)

mpkav said:


> I am a LEO and will not even consider this light. 270 Lumens is nice but for 15 minutes? Maybe 30? NO WAY. I have a million other things going on while working, putting my light back on the charger EVERY time I get in the car is not practical. For the price I could buy countless lights and AW rechargeables. Olight M30, 700 lumens with 2.5 hours runtime on high with AW's. On a 2 hour K9 track for armed suspects the last thing I can afford is my light going dead. With the 5.11 I guess i could count on it going dead. I have used 5.11 products for about 6 years now and think their quality is really getting bad. I refuse to wear their boots anymore but still do wear the TDU uniform. Just my sheltered 2 cents but I think for the money there are by far better choices out there.


 

270 for 15 maybe, but 90 for 60... thats more likely then not what you would be using in most situations.

Obviously every LEO is different in what they do and how they do it every day.. I am seriously considering getting this becase more then 1 time (ok more then 20 probably) I found myself pulling my flashlight out and it just fading and dying, I always have a little backup one but never as good or as powerfull as my primary... 

Working midnights you use your flashlight alot, but 270 would be TOO bright for most situations, IE searching a car, checking an address to see where you are, in a field contact with someone writing their name down, normal search of a room for contraband etc.... if you are going to be shining it on things close to your eyes, 270 would be TOO bright and you would end up ruining yoru night vision (very bad for a cop) so 90 would be most of the time usage...

Now I know people have said "I Aint gonna plus this in after EVERY stop / call etc".. I say why not... What is the average time you spend in your car after a call, either shooting the breeze, entering something in on the computer, adjusting something, waiting for radio dispatch, etc etc etc... 

Chances are that you spend more then 90 seconds after each call just getting situated for your drive off etc...

put that charger in a good spot and make a habit of tossing it in there every time you get in your car... and not just after a call, DURING a call too, if you have to get on the horn to check a bad guys info, and you have backup there, everyone has got into their car during a stop / call and got on the computer / radio etc to run a check... you could have a full battery EVERY time you do that... fully recharched... that to me is worht its weight in gold

60 minute run time

I would still carry a back up anyways.. as would everyoen else I would think... but this way you could have a full charge EVERY call, guarantee... I love the idea.

I'll hold my judgement until someone I know in my area that does the same thing as me, gets one and tells me... or i get it myself...


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## bkumanski (Sep 25, 2009)

sandmanusd said:


> 270 for 15 maybe, but 90 for 60... thats more likely then not what you would be using in most situations.
> 
> Obviously every LEO is different in what they do and how they do it every day.. I am seriously considering getting this becase more then 1 time (ok more then 20 probably) I found myself pulling my flashlight out and it just fading and dying, I always have a little backup one but never as good or as powerfull as my primary...
> 
> ...


 
I don't know about you, but I have spent more than 15 min on a T-stop and needed full brightness a lot. I guess in a brightly lit city, you may get away with using the lower mode, but I use a Malkoff P7 for nearly everything, and a smaller Dereelight CL1H for the small stuff when I need a dimmer light. An accident scene, felony stop, baricaded suspect, etc is not the time to need to leave your position to recharge a light, even for 90 seconds. The size is horrible too. I haven't used a light bigger than a 2C mag in over 8 years. I'm not reallt to sure how LiIons are not environmental, anyway. They are rechargeable... I'm sure the technology will evolve and we will eventually get lights as small as a DBS and 10 second recharge times with 60 min runtimes. Its a promising idea, but not ready for prime-time. LE is not a job I want to be testing technology.

Someday, I'm sure we will all be carrying lights like this, but more development has to be done. Its an unfinished project. Like every other technology replacement, the replacement has to actually be better than what its replacing, often times by a factor of 10 or more. Take VHS to DVD or analog to digital. Size and runtimes are huge factors; I aready carry 25 lbs of stuff, I don't need another ineffective baton on my belt. For me, powerfull and small makes my job easier, not large and "environmental"...Someday, but not now...


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## dano (Oct 2, 2009)

Bump to mention that 5.11 is introducing a smaller version with dual switches. Model PC3.30.

The original is a BIG light, and i'm not sold on the concept. Interesting that they are already downsizing the model so early in it's lifetime.


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## joe_2224 (Oct 3, 2009)

I have been a LEO for 18 years and I'm a bit of a "gotta get me one of those" guys. I got one from one of our vendors to play with. My impressions are quite favorable. I work primarily nights and find the light to be decent for police work. Compared to my SL-20X the light is whiter and brighter. I'm doing a real world comparison and usage feasibility not a technical comparison. 

What I have found is that my physically larger light is kept in the squad and taken out when needed (traffic stops, routine calls, building checks, etc). Speaking of larger, I am used to the thinner barrel of the SL-20X and the extra length. I like the feel of the SL-20 in my hand a little better, but attribute that to what I'm used to. When I have the 5.11 on my belt I actually forget it is there due to its lightweight.

Most light usage is intermittent and the duration of use is generally not longer than 60 minutes of continuous use. With my SL-20X I never know what the state of the charge is as the rechargeable battery capacity diminishes over time. With the 5.11 light I know it is fully charged and ready for use. From what I understand I don't think the capacitors will wear out and become less effective over time. 

Some have poo-pooed the 90 second recharge time. I generally return my light to the charger when I return to the car to use the computer, write a ticket, make notes, etc. I am generally in the car for more than 90 seconds anyways. It takes far less time to top off the capacitors so each time it is taken out the usage timer is "reset".

I found that the switch is a little small for my liking and would like to have something to index my finger to when locating the switch. Putting a tactile marker on the light after purchase would be quite simple.

I have showed the light to fellow LEO and they have been mostly favorable in their impression of it. The physical feel being the only downfall that they have noted. I think the light will be the start of a new trend in lighting. Only time will tell.

I still follow the old adage, two is one, one is none. I always have a backup light on my belt and an additional on my weapon that can be removed for use in a pinch.


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## Kato (Oct 3, 2009)

Nice review, Joe! :wave:


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## electromage (Oct 3, 2009)

While a nice step toward a wider adoption of ultracapacitors, it's just a step. They're probably trying to gauge interest and/or raise funds for a series of improvements.


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## Vesper (Oct 3, 2009)

Most interesting part of this light to me is the use of capacitors. The latest capacitor tech has to start somewhere, and whether or not this light is useful in the real world I hope it's improved upon. Imagine a light that runs on good capacitors for day-to-day stuff AND batteries as a backup. Would be cool.


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## WaltH (Oct 6, 2009)

Just picked one up today. Non LEO and intend to use around the house and for car-camping. I can let the kids run around with it and play flashlight tag and top it off in under 2 minutes. Will post more after I've used it for a while.


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## Iamnotagolem (Oct 16, 2009)

dano said:


> Aren't these lights based off a design from a Russian company?



The energy management electronics inside were designed by IVUS Energy. Located in Moscow, ID. That's where the Russia rumors come from.


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## GFDTACMED (Nov 4, 2009)

I have been given one of the new smaller size 5.11 light for Life to evaluate. I am a firefighter and have helped 5.11 in the development of these lights. While I am surely not a technician or a light engineer, I may be able to provide some information on the development of this light. 
A while ago 5.11 was approached at a technology fair about helping with the marketing of the light technology that was developed by some grad students from University of Idaho, in Moscow, Idaho. These guys had a company called IVUS Technology(or something like that, Google IVUS and it comes up) They were developing ultracapacitors and how to trickle discharge and shrink them down. 5.11 picked them up and wanted to market the technology. 
I got involved at a product development meeting when the light concept was first introduced. Police officers in a development group basically gave the design parameters for the light around the existing technology at the time. That is why it kind of looks like a big mag light. 
The concept behind the light is that it gives a good working beam of 70 lumens or so when you turn it on. If you hold down the switch it goes to 270 until you let it up. You cant continuously have the 270 beam without holding down the switch. If you press it rapidly twice the strobe kicks on at 270 lumens. The big deal about the light is that a PD officer can put it back in the charger and in 90 sec or less it charged again for a hundred thousand cycles or so. 
The technology has gotten better and the ultracaps are smaller. The light I now have has 200 lumens on high and I think about 50 on low. No info came with it. It charged initially in 88 seconds and has a very good white clear beam. Ive dropped it a bunch of times and held it under water for 5 minutes with no problem. Charged right up when wet. Its run time on high is about 20 minutes and I haven't let it run all the way down on low or strobe yet. So I don't know those. This is a prototype and I think there are only about 30-50 out there right now being tested. It is a light for those that can put it back in the charger when needed. Its not a light that you are going to take camping for an extended time. At this time I don't think that is the idea. The strobe is great for distracting and disorienting people and directing traffic. Tends to really get drivers attention when they want to stare at the accident and not pay attention to what they should be doing. I really like the smaller size. Its about 1 1/8 inches thick and 8 1/2 inches long, lens is about 1 1/2 inches. Remember, this one is a prototype.


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## pjandyho (Nov 5, 2009)

Bushman5 said:


> at the Mobile Command post, or in the chopper, or off the ATV/ARGO 12V outlets, off a genset 12V outlet. The members are never that far from a vehicle or command post, plus the runners between teams and command can always swap out lights or bring a genny to the area.


I don't want to sound too sarcastic but I guess I would have to drag a genset along into the remote mountains to conduct a SAR mission just to ensure that I could continue using my lights? Or call down the chopper once every few minutes to charge my lights? Or tag along a super long cable just to make sure I am always within reach of a power outlet? It just sounds so ridiculous considering the entire unit of SAR operators needs to get their 5.11 charged every 15 minutes!

Give me a Surefire LX2 or any lights with 1.5 to 3 hours run time on high mode and some spare cells and I would be much better off.


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## curtispdx (Nov 5, 2009)

I think 5.11 is having a 20% off sale soon; I assume that their lights would be included.

I'm not buying one. It's interesting but the low run time is a deal-breaker.


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## Swedpat (Dec 5, 2009)

I hope they will have curtispdx,

I have tried to seek information at internet about the smaller version PC3.300 but have not found adequate specs. Some sites state the same high 270lm as 5.11 and other 200lm for the smaller model. Also I have not found any information about the runtime at the higher brightness. 

Anyone who knows? 

Regards, Patric


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## guiri (Dec 5, 2009)

jchoo said:


> Man are you guys missing the point entirely.



Finally someone that gets the point. I am amazed at how you guys put down such great technology. Sure, it's not as mature but dammit, it's pretty new.

Does ANYONE understand what all the use of batteries and other crap does to nature and what this is going to do for the planet in the future?

I have for many years tried to only use rechargeable batteries. Just like LED's, the technology is sweet and will only improve and man, I can't wait to see what we'll have ten years from now.

For those who are into digital photography and know their stuff, think digital cameras ten years ago and the Nikon D3s today. Holy crap!

The point yall are missing is where this is headed...


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## travelinman (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm not in the market for this light, but where I am it's -11C that's something like 12 deg F, and it's going to get a lot colder in the next few weeks. This light is recommended only to 4 deg (I assume F.). Not much good in the great outdoors in cold snowy weather.


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## digitalgeek (Mar 29, 2010)

Hey guys, I received my light for life full size version last week and must admit I am confused to say the least. upon comparing it to my 2 cell magliyte LED I notice virtually no difference in brightness. I know all about the battery advantages but why is this thing 6X's the price of my maglite and why am I not seeing better lighting than the mag LED?


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## ncka1234 (Mar 31, 2010)

guiri said:


> Finally someone that gets the point. I am amazed at how you guys put down such great technology. Sure, it's not as mature but dammit, it's pretty new.
> 
> Does ANYONE understand what all the use of batteries and other crap does to nature and what this is going to do for the planet in the future?
> 
> ...


 

Actually capacitor technology is very old.....the difference is the creator of this particular capacitor thinks they have it worked out and partnered with 5.11 (he surfed it around for a while)...

The capacitor techology is often given up on because its discharge ability...is funny you mention cameras...you remember bumping a camera and its flash going off? Same thing..


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## guiri (Mar 31, 2010)

That may be but I still think it's a good thing and at some point, they'll get it right.

Anything that takes us away from throwing all these batteries out every year. Hell, I've been trying to avoid buying regular batteries for something like 20 years.


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## Swedpat (Mar 31, 2010)

I am surprised that there is still not any runtime graph made for this light. Or am I wrong? I searched but can't find. 
Any owner who can measure the brightness level during the runtime at each brightness mode? This doesn't makes the demand of advanced instrument, just a lightmeter and see the percentual difference.


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## ama230 (May 1, 2010)

This is a note to all the jaded...

To all of you who spend thousands of dollars on flashlights and still have to wait two to three hours when your cells are charging. Whats the problem here? Taking the pc4.300 for example it had atleat 700farads of capacity and is lighter than any dcell or cell flashlight and has the balls of 200+ lumens and has a downtime of just a half an hour over a 24hr period. There is no flashlight to rival or come close and there are still complaints. 
I look at things for what they are and not what they aren't, also by reviewing most of the posts are just cry here and cry there and why not this and why that. 
If you want to even consider yourself constructive or educated you first do a non bias review of whatever it may be and then if you own it then you can complain. This particular product will satisfy anybody's needs but when there is something new that they have no idea on how it works, they complain.
Just because you read somebody's post that says something sucks are you just going to snowball and keep adding to the hype? Probably, but if you actually take a few minutes of hate and spend it on looking up what the technology is and is doing you just might become enlightened...:candle: We are in an age of change(not just obama) and we are supposed to embrace the ideas and add to them and this will inspire innovation. If you want to jump on the bandwagon with the whitecollars then you can join the republican party and hate away. :devil:
I have a maglite 2dcell that i retrofitted with two maxwell 350F ultracaps and a nite ize led that works with 2-6cells. Let me say that this thing runs for 8 hours no problem and i have added a charging jack at the bottom. It charges in a few minutes and i have eight pluas hours of light at 30-50 lumens of pure white/bluish light!!! Driving three high power leds and having a run time of an hour or so is huge. I can charge my light or the 5.11 light in the same time it takes anybody to take their cells out and replace them. This 5.11 light does not get the kudos it deserves. 
Think of of it this way... You have a chevy with a v8 350hp/305ft/lbs tq with a big tank and of course it has power and a range of 400miles give or take. This is what all Americans are accustomed to because they do not think for themselves, it just too much thinking or they just are not bright enough. This typically yeilds and efficiency of 40 percent at the most of converting the energy in gas to the ground. Yeah its got a hemi but this is the same old technology that was invented a 100 plus years ago and the definition of insanity is doing the same procedure over and over again expecting a different outcome each time, this is not going to happen!!!:shakehead

Then you can take a pure electric vehicle and have more torque and power without having to waste gas on getting into a specific rpm range. The brush-less dc motor has a 90 plus percent efficiency. The batteries are the problem since they waste so much power when discharging and charging and are inefficient themselves. They on average with the best battery, li ion polymer, can only take in about 50-60 percent of whats being injected and the rest is wasted in heat, and then can only emit whats being chemically produced. Do not get me wrong i think li poly are great but you still have to replace them after 3-5 years and are the same price as ultracaps. A ultracap has no energy rejection when it comes to charging and as the case with discharging. We need to just refine our regulation circuits to fine tune the output. Also of course a 350F cap has the energy density of half a 2800mah nimh but with over 500k cycles it will serve its purpose. It only composed of a aluminum sheet tightly wound with an electrolyte in it. Its 100% recyclable and is no secret technology. 
Of course they have weak energy densities out there but we can easily replace a v8 with a i4 or electric motor and still get the same work done. Our habits are just terrible themselves so you might want to evaluate them and you might just find the light for life feasible with great potential. 

My two cents. Also throw some blows as i want to be challanged on a factual basis not what others put on here when they copy and paste google information. JUST BRING IT!!!:nana:

Thanks for reading my first post...


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## DM51 (May 1, 2010)

ama230 said:


> Thanks for reading my first post...


Well, I've read it... and it's pretty much crap, from start to finish. 

If you want to behave like a trollish half-wit, you've come to the wrong forum. Any more nonsense like that, and you'll be gone for good.


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## JCD (May 1, 2010)

ama230 said:


> I have a maglite 2dcell that i retrofitted with two maxwell 350F ultracaps and a nite ize led that works with 2-6cells. Let me say that this thing runs for 8 hours no problem and i have added a charging jack at the bottom. It charges in a few minutes and i have eight pluas hours of light at 30-50 lumens of pure white/bluish light!



With rechargeable cells, I can get more light, of a warmer, more desirable tint ("white/bluish light", aka cool white, is generally not very desirable), for just as long or longer, from a smaller light, with the ability to recharge in less time than a discharge takes (i.e., with two sets of cells, my only downtime is the 30-45 seconds required to change the cells 2-3 times a day (assuming light is otherwise on 24/7). Cost is $251.40, shipped to my door, including Surefire 9P, LED emitter, AW protected cells, and Pila charger, and that's without shopping for discounts. Looking for deals could drastically cut the cost.

Of course, since I already have the light, emitter, cells and a charger, my marginal cost to exceed your modified MagLite's performance is only the cost of electricity to recharge the cells.

How many sets of rechargeable cells do I have to wear out before I exceed the environmental impact of building a new Mag and the parts and energy required to modify and operate it?


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## HIDblue (May 1, 2010)

Hoppy, or anyone else for that matter...have any beamshots of that 5.11 light??? :candle:


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## ama230 (May 2, 2010)

Easy MOD MAN!!!,

I mean no harm and am not here to defend or object to anybody. I am here to stimulate the so called educated and if it offends then i am sorry... I will tone it down in the future, but it was quite an entrance.

Adding to the surefire post,

Sure you could buy a 300 dollar flashlight with a package deal and have it all. 
It has awesome throw and batterylife with the most advanced battery cells but are you really happy when you have to wait 3 plus hours only to get a 40 percent return in what your putting into it. I am talking about like taking a shower with excess water being put down the drain etc. Then think if you you find a system that could only let out what you actually use for washing efficiently.
That is the appeal to these ultracap systems, using 90-100 percent of the energy coming in and going out all with a piece of aluminum foil and salt water. I am not saying that this is better but the prospects are there.:candle:
Then i can buy any charger(ac wall/dc car) at frys or wherever for 5bucks with a 3.5mm male/female combo and im set with 20 bucks with tax for the both of them. They also can run simulataneously when charging which is a big plus in my book, when on standby or any serviceman can find a good reason.
No advanced charger or circuitry is needed when charging a cap just pure dc juice with [email protected], this is easily achieved with a small amorphous solar panel(even with cloudy conditions), or a peltier device(runs by wasted heat from any source), even a small earth battery with a about (earth battery)six oranges or lemons in parallel and then also wind with your car vent fans spinning by the wind passing through the engine bay. The possibilities are endless with coming up with +/-3w. 
Batteries have the power density and thats the only perk as well as memory but as most they should go through proper disposal not the trash and ultracaps can be thrown away but thats when your grandchild needs to upgrade to 4000F in the same form factor and smaller.

Also to disclaim these things as dangerous is just silly let me elaborate a little on this subject.
1)The ultracap can charge/discharge @ 100A each cell.
2)It has a specific characteristic that when trying to short or accidentally close the loop without a load it will burn any wire up or arc any conductive material where it just will not make a connection. 
3)Also when a human touches both contacts with a full charge it will not discharge due to the cell having a larger internal resistance than a human.
4)They can handle heat better than any power source when it comes to storage but makes the cell just discharge quickly.
5)Having a cell than can deliver 0-100A and stay at a constant voltage of 2.5V or 2.7V depending on which cell configuration you get.

For everyday you can take the conventional flashlights and stay in the past, nostalgic and vintage are very appealing!!! But just try something different and this is no joke on specs and performance let me tell you. If you want a cool build and use something that 99.99999% of the world knows nothing about or heard of , then this is it my friend. 

Also mind you is that you still need a resistor when driving these and if your looking for high amperage, this seems like a viable contender.

Any question or comments welcome:wave:..........................................


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## ama230 (May 2, 2010)

HIDblue said:


> Hoppy, or anyone else for that matter...have any beamshots of that 5.11 light??? :candle:



There is a post on here with it compared to a few flashlights, just got to search around. then youtube has a few with great shots at nightime. youtube light for life.

Hope this helps... I would say that it is a solid 140lumens even with three p4's and only lasts a mere 45min an hour on std(90 lumens) and 10-15 with high(140-150 lumens). It thows but for a limited time, but in less time it takes you to go to the bathroom it will be ready to go, how cool is that.

Also i do not work for or am payed by the following company, just a 24yr old nerd that has a piece of paper and lots of experience, but what do i know???:duh2:


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## JCD (May 2, 2010)

ama230 said:


> Sure you could buy a 300 dollar flashlight with a package deal and have it all.



Nope. I already have all of the parts, and my setup surpasses yours in every way that matters. Your 90 second charge even takes longer than it takes me to swap cells. Since my cells can charge at a faster rate than I'm discharging them to meet or exceed your output, a second set of cells is all that is necessary, and thay can charge while I'm out using my light. Of course, my setup allows me to carry extra cells, so my area of operation with the light is much bigger, since I don't have to stay so close to the charger.

Even if I were buying the setup from scratch, I can shop around to find much better deals, reducing the cost to around $200. Further, I can pick up some of the parts used (e.g., the body), and save some more money. Further still, I could even use a host from a different manufacturer, and save even more money. I could easily reduce the cost to match or beat the Light for Life.

So, the Light for Life doesn't win on price.



ama230 said:


> It has awesome throw and batterylife with the most advanced battery cells but are you really happy when you have to wait 3 plus hours only to get a 40 percent return in what your putting into it.



The charging time is part of a parallel process, meaning it requires three hours (for argument's sake) of the charger, but it doesn't require three hours of me or my light. Heck, it doesn't even require 90 seconds of my time or even require 90 seconds of downtime with the light. In other words, the parallel process allows my light to have less downtime than the Light for Life.

As far as increased charging efficiency goes, the concept of diminishing returns applies. Sure, I'd love for my cells to charge more efficiently. I don't like wasting energy. However, even with 100% charging efficiency, the benefit to my wallet and the environment is minuscule compared to switching from primary cells to rechargeable cells.



ama230 said:


> That is the appeal to these ultracap systems, using 90-100 percent of the energy coming in and going out all with a piece of aluminum foil and salt water. I am not saying that this is better but the prospects are there.



Yes, the potential is there, but, as applied in the Light For Life, it's Saturday Night Live technology. It just isn't yet ready for prime time.



ama230 said:


> Then i can buy any charger(ac wall/dc car) at frys or wherever for 5bucks with a 3.5mm male/female combo and im set with 20 bucks with tax for the both of them.



So, you're saying that the input voltage doesn't matter? Any charger with the proper plug will work? Interesting. Do various input voltages affect the charging times?



ama230 said:


> They also can run simulataneously when charging which is a big plus in my book, when on standby or any serviceman can find a good reason.



Why would that be a big plus? Typically, when I need a flashlight, I don't have an AC outlet handy for my charger, and I certainly don't want to be encumbered by a cord connecting my light to a wall or a car.



ama230 said:


> No advanced charger or circuitry is needed when charging a cap just pure dc juice with [email protected] …



At 100% efficiency, that will provide 30 mWh of energy in 90 seconds. By contrast, my 2 rechargeable 17500 cells contain about 3960 mWh of energy. Even at 100% charging efficiency, the Light for Life will require 3.3 hours with a [email protected] mA charger to store the same amount of energy.



ama230 said:


> Batteries have the power density and thats the only perk …



Well, clearly it's not the _only_ perk. The ability to quickly and easily replace cells (primary or rechargeable) offers a huge advantage to flashlights that use removable cells over the Light for Life.



ama230 said:


> … as most they should go through proper disposal not the trash



Yes, that is something I need to worry about every 500-2000 charge/discharge cycles per cell.



ama230 said:


> … and ultracaps can be thrown away but thats when your grandchild needs to upgrade to 4000F in the same form factor and smaller.



That argument isn't very compelling, given the long life of rechargeable cells.



ama230 said:


> That is the appeal to these ultracap systems, using 90-100 percent of the energy coming in and going out all with a piece of aluminum foil and salt water. I am not saying that this is better but the prospects are there.
> 
> …
> For everyday you can take the conventional flashlights and stay in the past, nostalgic and vintage are very appealing!!!



Yes, the potential is there, and one day we might see great lights because of it. But, that day isn't here yet. As currently applied in the Light For Life, it's Saturday Night Live technology. It just isn't yet ready for prime time.



ama230 said:


> If you want a cool build and use something that 99.99999% of the world knows nothing about or heard of , then this is it my friend.



That's the difference between you and me. You seem to be looking for a toy that no one else has. I use my flashlights as tools, not toys. My lights have to meet my needs. The Light for Life does not.

When my cells are drained, I need to be able to quickly replace them, wherever I might be. It's not unusual for me to use up a dozen cells or more in a night, before I get a chance to access any kind of charger. Further, on such nights, I'm simultaneously running 3 lights on each high for 2-3 hours straight, producing 600-800 OTF lumens. How many Lights for Life for life would I need to reproduce that performance and time away from a charger?


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## ama230 (May 4, 2010)

All of your points are valid except for the fact that you are wasting twice as much energy as you are storing in the cell itself, this is how a battery is charged these days. Also I am the type of guy that likes to keep using the same container instead of using a new one every time. This is the light for life's concept as with all tactical gear. I really dig a product that only requires me to charge it and nothing more... Its self sufficient. Also just to be off topic, i think of the godsmack song, "crying like a $%^&*", when these discussions go on. Which godsmack ROCKS:twothumbs

Also in Arizona where the temperature delta is 100F, the batteries suck out here they just do not last. If you get a couple of years good luck but in the cold country its just the same, chemicals are limited.
Then to state that you are looking for 700lumens which is just crazy, you might as well start a vw block on fire. I am going on a strong assumption here but the 50-200lumen range is what as known as an effective and necessary lighting. Anything beyond that is just useless unless it is a flood. IMHO. 

Also your lithium batteries cost more than my ultracaps and are 10x as heavy. 

Then to state that you are looking looking for sheer power without being responsible or ecologically accountable. Some people just like to be self sufficient and some like to over indulge(a.k.a. THE FAT CATS:thumbsdow)

You can have your power stroke diesel with a 50gal tank but is it absolutely necessary to have your house and drive it too.
I prefer a Toyota Tacoma 4cyl or 4runner, but i am not trying to convince you in any way or say that you are wrong and i am just stating facts. Mainly I am just into being as responsible as i can be with 100% accountability. Whether you choose to accept them is your choice. :sick2:
I am in no way using these things(flashlights) for fun or to shine on a wall(which is great to kill time btw). I have stated that I am an engineer that deals with design fabricating one of designs and constantly working with or without sunlight. 

I am not going to go on and on as i have valuable knowledge elsewhere to be dispersed to those who chose to embrace. All of the sudden when a guy try's to improve(not meaning to change) the world for the better he gets stoned by the masses because it offends those who can not compute logistics. 
Regression wins again!lovecpf 
Pros(0) vs. Joes(1)

Also i have a question for all of you. If you happen to acquire a product that lasts longer than you, do you own it or does it own you...


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## Kremer (May 4, 2010)

I'd get a supercap powered light if/when they get much cheaper. I bought one of the coleman/demain flashcell screwdrivers nearly 2 years ago and use it all the time, it's a fantastic tool. Sure I couldn't assemble a shed with it on one charge, but for most everyday tasks it has more than enough runtime on one 90 second charge or an even shorter top-up. It's all about knowing the limitations of the tool and working with the way it was designed to be used.


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## JCD (May 4, 2010)

ama230 said:


> This is the light for life's concept as with all tactical gear.



In its present form, the Light for Life is not well suited for tactical purposes.



> I am going on a strong assumption here but the 50-200lumen range is what as known as an effective and necessary lighting.



Yes, you're making a huge (and unjustified) assumption. There are times when I need well over 200 lumens. There are other times when 50 lumens is far, far more than I need.



> Then to state that you are looking looking for sheer power without being responsible or ecologically accountable.



I stated nothing even remotely resembling that. Using rechargeable cells is _not_ being irresponsible, nor is it being ecologically unaccountable. In fact, it is exactly the opposite of those things. Wasting the resources to make and carry the dozen or so Lights for Life that would be minimally required to meet my current needs would be ecologically irresponsible. I would thank you to read and understand my posts before you paraphrase them.



> You can have your power stroke diesel with a 50gal tank but is it absolutely necessary to have your house and drive it too.
> I prefer a Toyota Tacoma 4cyl or 4runner, but i am not trying to convince you in any way or say that you are wrong and i am just stating facts. Mainly I am just into being as responsible as i can be with 100% accountability.



When you give up your automobile and begin commuting by bicycle, come back and talk to me about your environmental responsibility and accountability, okay? Your Light to Life doesn't even begin to make up for the resources you're wasting with your pickup and your SUV, so get off your soapbox. You do realize that, next to walking, bicycles are the most energy efficient form of transportation, right? I'm pretty sure you don't really want to compare carbon footprints with me.

(Note: I don't care if you drive a car, ride a bike, or pilot a magic carpet. It's your choice to make. But, you should take care to remove the beam from your own eye before you criticize the splinter in mine.)


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## Hfili (May 4, 2010)

I agree with JCD in the light is not well suited for tactical applications in it's current form. I think the intent of the light is for police/fire/medical agencies to replace existing mag chargers and stream lights. 

From an admin/budget standpoint, the light is appealing for no downtime, replacement bulbs or batteries. Plus the lightweight plastic design (so I hear) cuts down on liability by reducing the temptation to use the light as an improvised impact tool. 

If you evaluate the light based on it's intended primary use I think it is a decent light. For vehicle based operators, you grab the light from the charger when you leave your vehicle and it is fully topped off, it provides a reasonable amount of light and run time to accomplish most common calls for service, and you return it to the charger when you get back in your vehicle and it is ready to go before you can get to the next call. This light is not intended for tactical use, SAR or extended periods away from a vehicle/charger. 

It isn't fair to this light to look at it outside of it's intended use. Sure, it is not a great light and not what I would carry, but I am a "light snob" according to my wife (and that was before I discovered CPFlovecpf) Those who don't care what they carry with think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Those who don't like it will have the same options they do now, buy your own gear and carry it (if allowed). 

I am intrigued by the capacitor technology of this light and the potential for future use. Talk about guilt free lumens! I personally hope it is successful and the technology advances to something better. That's my two cents.


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## JCD (May 4, 2010)

Hfili said:


> If you evaluate the light based on it's intended primary use I think it is a decent light.
> …
> It isn't fair to this light to look at it outside of it's intended use.



I agree completely. It is also unfair for some people to criticize other people for not using this light despite it not being suitable for their needs.



Hfili said:


> I am intrigued by the capacitor technology of this light and the potential for future use. Talk about guilt free lumens! I personally hope it is successful and the technology advances to something better.



I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## ama230 (May 9, 2010)

I had just wanted to say that i saw this panel that emits light with not a diode junction but using a capacitor to light the phosphor substrate of some kind. I wonder if they will be doing an light emitting ultracapacitor. Thsi would be nuts, no foward volatge and for pwm a ultracap would do alot better than a basic cap, less noise and increasing efficiency.... Nice:twothumbs

Then i agree that if you use a tool for whats its intended it should serve you well. This is a discussion on non battery technologies and a not huge lithium flashlights. I could but a cheap deal extreme flashlight if i wanted a superbright on the cheap and pay 50bucks for cells and light chargers,etc... but again i am into newer technologies.

being self sufficient is kind of a gig for me or wasting as little resources as i can. As you can see that these aren't for the easily jaded, also why are you looking at this subject if you do not find it appealing, now thats the question... You had me fooled for a second... 

My maglite with two caps in it is so light now it feels fake, which is crazy now and imagine a netbook with a weight of 1/2 lb instead of 3lbs.


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## JCD (May 9, 2010)

ama230 said:


> My maglite with two caps in it is so light now it feels fake, which is crazy now and imagine a netbook with a weight of 1/2 lb instead of 3lbs.



Too bad it's still much heavier and bulkier than battery powered lights that are brighter and have better tint, with similar runtimes. It's like you're carrying around a 1/2 pound netbook when you could be carrying a three ounce smart phone that does just as much. ;-)

But, if you like your toy, enjoy it.


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## Zendude (May 9, 2010)

ama230 said:


> I had just wanted to say that i saw this panel that emits light with not a diode junction but using a capacitor to light the phosphor substrate of some kind. I wonder if they will be doing an light emitting ultracapacitor. Thsi would be nuts, no foward volatge and for pwm a ultracap would do alot better than a basic cap, less noise and increasing efficiency.... Nice:twothumbs
> 
> Then i agree that if you use a tool for whats its intended it should serve you well. This is a discussion on non battery technologies and a not huge lithium flashlights. I could but a cheap deal extreme flashlight if i wanted a superbright on the cheap and pay 50bucks for cells and light chargers,etc... but again i am into newer technologies.
> 
> ...



You might win some converts if you weren't so arrogant about it.

You do bring up good points but your delivery sucks.

I too imagine a day without disposable batteries and maybe this is a first step but be objective and consider the limitations as well(i.e.without being a fanboy).


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## DM51 (May 9, 2010)

ama230 said:


> This is a discussion on non battery technologies and not huge lithium flashlights.


No, it is not. It is a discussion about this particular light. Please stay on topic.

-------------------

@ Zendude... you need to edit the 1st sentence of your post...


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## kaichu dento (May 10, 2010)

ama230 said:


> We are in an age of change(not just obama) and we are supposed to embrace the ideas and add to them and this will inspire innovation. If you want to jump on the bandwagon with the whitecollars then you can join the republican party and hate away.
> 
> This is what all Americans are accustomed to because they do not think for themselves, it just too much thinking or they just are not bright enough.
> 
> My two cents. Also throw some blows as i want to be challanged on a factual basis not what others put on here when they copy and paste google information. JUST BRING IT!!!:nana:


Hey, think there's any chance you could take this stuff out of your post? It's got nothing to do with the light and it really looks like you came in here looking for a fight with words like those. 

If you'll do that for us, I'll erase my post so that we can peacefully continue discussion without the incendiary content. Please?


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## HIDblue (May 10, 2010)

digitalgeek said:


> Hey guys, I received my light for life full size version last week and must admit I am confused to say the least. upon comparing it to my 2 cell magliyte LED I notice virtually no difference in brightness. I know all about the battery advantages but why is this thing 6X's the price of my maglite and why am I not seeing better lighting than the mag LED?


 
Any way you can post up some beamshots of your 5.11 light and your Maglite LED??? :candle:


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## ama230 (May 10, 2010)

I mean no harm but again i am stating logic and am fully factual. Its only offensive if you take it that way.

There are no arguments:thumbsdow, you are just getting mad since you might have to change your ideas on what you thought the light for life is and does.:green:
This isnt bad at all its a good thing as you are actually seeing whats out there. You do not have to accept what i say just acknowledge as i am not making up anything.

I will post some pics of my ultracap maglite with a 1/2w led and a 1w led vs my maglite xl100 and show you some comparison but mind you with the 1w the runtime is only three hours vs 8 plus. Then again this is only a one mode light that cost me a total of 50bucks so there can be improvements. 

Then for the long term as i hope as i can get somebody on here to replicate it for themselves and get it to snowball innovation. Then this leading to revamping this idea as its not complicated as all, no custom machining or fabrication, just assemble and go. Also its a good exercise as to anybody can do it and not just and electrical engineer.

Also the claim that an ultracap with the same power density as a li-ion will still take the same power to charge is far from right. As again a battery only takes 40-50% in while charging even using the best smart charger. An ultracap takes 90-100% of the charge because it doesn't store a charge it rather stows until needed. Also i could put a terralux 700lumen bulb in it and have the performance but i am looking for some thing that has a good balance with technology i am working with.

xl100(high) vs. ultracap 2d maglite(1w led):








xl100(high) vs ultracap 2d(1/2w led):





as you can see the 1w is very warm and they say its rated at 100lumens but its really at like 60lumens but has a very good [email protected] Then the 1/2w is more cool and has a good throw at 50m. Then just to specify that the xl100 is rated at 69lumens but i think its more of 80 solid lumens. The light for life would have three times the beam as i have with the 1w led, but again it would have 1/3rd the runtime, which is exactly right as 5.11 states with 270+/-lumens. I just wish i had a machine to make composite housings as this would help with weight. Also botach tactical is selling the pc3.300 for $139 shipped with a car and home charger, btw is awesome deal and warranty!!! Hope this helps.


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## Brigadier (May 10, 2010)

I use a 5.11 UC3.400 for an around the house light for the family. It is always ready, always charged, no batteries to worry about overcharging. 90 lumens for 1 hr is fine for just about all tasks around the house. And the 270 lumens is great when needed. And when you are done, just slide it back into the cradle and in less than 2 minutes - it is ready to go again.

I think 5.11 missed the boat on the stobe, tho. I'd like to see someone make a multi emitter strobe that randomly strobes between the emitters @ approx 12 Hz. Either that, or have all three strobing simultaneously at different frequencies.


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## ama230 (May 10, 2010)

you make a good point on the strobe as it would be more effective with each emitter going in sequence rather then all three at the same time but i can not wait to see whats beyound the pc3.300. I can only imagine, its going to be crazy.


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## DM51 (May 10, 2010)

ama230... you are skating on fairly thin ice here. I warned you before to stay on topic. The topic is the 5.11 light, not your Mag-mod or ultracaps in general. 

If you want to start a separate thread about your mod, or ultracapacitor technology, please do so in the appropriate sub-forum.


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## Swedpat (May 10, 2010)

Brigadier said:


> I use a 5.11 UC3.400 for an around the house light for the family. It is always ready, always charged, no batteries to worry about overcharging. 90 lumens for 1 hr is fine for just about all tasks around the house. And the 270 lumens is great when needed. And when you are done, just slide it back into the cradle and in less than 2 minutes - it is ready to go again.



Hi Brigadier,

I agree with you about the advantages about this light, and find it very attractive. Have you made any runtime graph? 

Regards, Patric


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## ama230 (May 10, 2010)

i am sorry but this is for reference for the light for life as it uses the same capacitors and technology. we all want to get an idea of how the thing works and as far as the led it would be the (1w)x3. There are no beamshots of the light but this the next best thing.

I will stay on topic from here in out:mecry:


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## Brigadier (May 10, 2010)

Swedpat said:


> Hi Brigadier,
> 
> I agree with you about the advantages about this light, and find it very attractive. Have you made any runtime graph?
> 
> Regards, Patric


 
Sorry, I haven't. I will have to try and see what I can do.


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## Swedpat (May 11, 2010)

Brigadier said:


> Sorry, I haven't. I will have to try and see what I can do.



Thanks!


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## Chowser (May 12, 2010)

ok, had a chance the other night to do a real world use with the smaller light for life.

partner had bought the 5.11 for home use but brought it in to work to try and used the standard 70lumen setting, I was using my trusty old O-Light M20 Warrior R2 at maximum setting.

1. my light was smaller, yet much brighter and threw further.

2. after wandering the woods for awhile, his light was dying. I was still going strong. so basically, i am throwing out 200+ lumens for over half an hour and he was throwing 70.
I think the run time on the 200lumen setting is less than 15 minutes.

Later, went back to the cars, he charged his up nice and quick. then we ended up having to search a warehouse.

again, my light was still going strong and threw further. after 2+ hrs of max setting, my light was still strong. 

If I needed to change batteries, I actually had two spare 18650s in the holster, so I can conceivably run my light for 9+ hrs away from my car.

Granted, most uses of the light on traffic stops will be less than 30 minutes, so the Light for Life has it's uses, but when something happens that takes us away from the cars for extended periods, the 5.11 light won't last long. Granted, we still have the old rechargeable mag lights in the car.

The short run-times was what turned me off. For home usage, I have my old Strion LED that the family can use in case of power outages.

I think 5.11 is having a sale today that you get the AC charger for free and free shipping, so if anyone wants it, go grab it!


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## Brigadier (May 13, 2010)

OK, no graph, but I turned the light on, and timed it until it dimmed. At exactly 60 min 1 sec, it dimmed from 90 lumens to 20 lumens - abruptly. Once it goes into low mode, the high mode is no longer available, but a 20 lumen strobe is, and the PWM becomes visible.


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## Swedpat (May 14, 2010)

Thanks for info. My wondering was about regulation and heatsinking and whether the output is stable during the runtime. This is according to your test adequate for 90lm. (You mention 70lm, I understand you meant 90lm). 

Regards, Patric


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## Brigadier (May 14, 2010)

Swedpat said:


> Thanks for info. My wondering was about regulation and heatsinking and whether the output is stable during the runtime. This is according to your test adequate for 90lm. (You mention 70lm, I understand you meant 90lm).
> 
> Regards, Patric


 
Correct, 90lm. The output was indeed steady until the deliberate step down. It ran at a steady 20 lm[low] for about another hour then shut off.


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## peterkin101 (Jun 27, 2010)

I almost fell off my chair when I saw the specs on this torch.

90 Second Recharge time??

But then I noticed the run time...

Oh dear...

And I thought my MagCharger was about to become as much use as the England Football team earlier today.

In fairness, this torch may be very good but IMHO a wacky shaped beam and that 15 min at max power run time count against it heavily.:shakehead


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## a_bags19 (Mar 18, 2011)

Im absolutely brand new to this site, and am trying to get my feet wet here .. i have also just recently started my career in law enforcement, and the service issued lights have yet to arrive and aren't that great from what i hear .. i researched a little bit and came across this light for life, and well it seems incredible .. is it as good as it sounds ?


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## ama230 (Mar 18, 2011)

no... its better!!! I have two of the pc3.300 and love them. I have one mounted in my 4runner and then an extra just to have, as when you find an awesome product you gotta have two. 

It has three cree xp-e's and when you get the p2 setting or the ramp function, it will last 8 hours on the lowest setting and its abut 30-45lumens . Very usable and the ergonomics and functionality are worth it alone. It deserves to be in a different category as its surely unique.

Both of mine are rater neutral to warm beam and are pleasant to the eye and definitely don't have to worry about breaking as its going to bounce off whatever it hits. Almost like the same stuff that a glocks handles are made of, g10 or something.

Check out LA police gear as they have the beast deals on this distributor and have great customer service. 10 out of 10 for me!!! : )


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## AmnestyC3 (Mar 29, 2011)

If it's ultracapacitor powered with the ability to be charged off of a 12v power source this thing could be used by the post apocalyptic mutant monkey children with an ancient bicycle generator in the year 2156

I think I will buy one, it's for the mutant monkey children


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## Dioni (Apr 24, 2011)

a_bags19 said:


> Im absolutely brand new to this site, and am trying to get my feet wet here .. i have also just recently started my career in law enforcement, and the service issued lights have yet to arrive and aren't that great from what i hear .. i researched a little bit and came across this light for life, and well it seems incredible .. is it as good as it sounds ?



IMHO, not. This light is not an incredible light except for its charging time. It is not a light for LEO and you would not want a light with 45l for "our" job. I don't need read papers (it is the only thing that can be done with 45l). "Ah but the default mode claims 90l..." you will say. As in early posts, the default starts 90l and step down to half of that after 30min.

Hope it's not too late. Stay safe bud.


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## Dioni (Apr 24, 2011)

AmnestyC3 said:


> If it's ultracapacitor powered with the ability to be charged off of a 12v power source this thing could be used by the post apocalyptic mutant monkey children with an ancient bicycle generator in the year 2156
> 
> I think I will buy one, it's for the mutant monkey children



haha...


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## bshanahan14rulz (Oct 17, 2011)

Anybody know the charger pinout?


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## wfturnerm4 (Oct 17, 2011)

*guiri* 





For those who are into digital photography and know their stuff, think digital cameras ten years ago and the Nikon D3s today. Holy crap!

The point yall are missing is where this is headed...


I am a photographer. Your above statement is spot on. This new technology 
of ultra caps and recharging has great promise and will only get better.
But this 5.11 light is not for me today


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## bshanahan14rulz (Oct 19, 2011)

So, I know it's 12V, ~5.5A, anybody with the charger want to probe the pins for me? I literally found a UC3.300, of course I didn't find the charger, however I see that if I want to drop about $75, I can buy the transformer and charging cradle. I also heard that the charging cradle uses an automotive cigarette plug to connect to the transformer. Anybody had success charging it directly from the car? I'm thinking that possibly a wiring upgrade may be in order, but I have wire, and just the cradle is around $10 I think.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jan 1, 2012)

If light is facing head upwards, and pin header is facing you, and pinout assignment is 1-4, starting with the top-left and going counter-clockwise, this is the pinout for the PC3.300:
1:data
2:gnd
3:"C3+OUT"
4:+12V

They use 3 Nesscap PseudoCaps, 2.3V 300F 

The XP-E are reflowed onto a pcb with quite a few vias, but no dedicated heatsink.

The electronics look fairly complex. From the visible areas of the PCBs, I've counted at least 7 IC chips. There are test points all over, indicating plenty of post-production testing of the boards. There is also a giant inductor under the LEDs.

Reflectors are vapor deposited plastic, and the central part is actually seperate from the outer parts of the reflectors, you can kind of see the seam from the front end.

I disassembled the standard way: unscrew every visible screw, start jiggling things. After all 12 switch screws were removed and all 6 lens screws removed, the internals slid out after some force. I think a little bit of stray glue was holding it in.

So, if the caps are in series, can I just put 6.9V across it?


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## eh4 (Jan 1, 2012)

AmnestyC3 said:


> If it's ultracapacitor powered with the ability to be charged off of a 12v power source this thing could be used by the post apocalyptic mutant monkey children with an ancient bicycle generator in the year 2156
> 
> I think I will buy one, it's for the mutant monkey children



yes!!!


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jan 5, 2012)

yes what?


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 5, 2012)

I think he is excited about the mutant monkey children.

*narrows eyes*

I think one just scurried under my table...


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## RCLumens (Jan 5, 2012)

I would agree, not for Leo, but an excellent light for the house. It's the one light that you can run and run and run.... Can charge from the car in 90 sec when power is out, and just use it non stop. This isn't something to take in the field, but great for non stop home use/ utility work.


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