# Help with a Work Bench



## modamag (Nov 22, 2006)

Hey Guys,

I need to find a nice and sturdy bench to hold ~1000 lbs.

Yeah, I know the first thing you guys are gonna tell me is build your own.
Been there done that!

I want one with steel/aluminum tubing with the table top of 1.5" or greater so it doesn't buckle due to tool weight.

Here are my problems.
1. I never learned how to weld. Anyone in the Bay Area want to take on a apprentice?
2. I can't find a thick slab of solid maple in my local HD or Lowes.

I have found a nice and simple Gladiator 6' workbench but the price of $500 is a little hard to swallow when the construction is so simple.

Any ideas guys, of how to solve this problem? I want to get my CNC Bench Mill up and running before the year ends.

Thanx for the help.
Jonathan


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## MoonRise (Nov 22, 2006)

First, four simple wooden legs can easily hold up 1000 pounds. That's only 250 pounds per leg, even a 3 foot tall 2x4 could do that. Want a little stiffer than 2x4 legs? Use 4x4 legs!

Next, if you know where the weight is on the table top, you can brace underneath and/or add support legs underneath the machine's footprint.

Next, do you want wood or do you want to go all-metal? Wood is more easily worked by a typical homeowner/hobbyist and is lighter than steel, but in a metal-cutting/machining bench it may not be the best choice because of chips, swarf, and coolant/lube.

Welding is fine, but you can make a bolted together metal workbench just fine out of angle iron or c-channel or box tubing. Just drill holes where needed, if needed, and bolt it all together.

Look for surplus, salvage, scrap yards and materials.

So many choices, you have to decide what you want to do.

Check out the "gorilla rack" stuff. Available at Sam's, Northern Tool, many other places as well. About $100. They make a convertible shelf unit/workbench with pretty sturdy steel posts and rails. Assemble it upright and it's a shelf unit, assemble it horizontally and you have a workbench. Add your own benchtop out of two sheets of 3/4 ply laminated with adhesive (Titebond Type 2 or 3 Wood Glue) and you'll have a 1.5 inch thick sturdy benchtop. Install on top of the Gorilla bench or on 4x4 post legs with rails and you have a bench.

Or how about this unit http://www2.northerntool.com/product/200317228_200317228.htm ? To me the top and legs will hold that 3000 pounds easily, but I wouldn't use a table of 12 gauge to hold a mill steady because of the vibration.

Or go to a scrap/salvage yard and get a piece of 1/2 inch steel plate and four pieces of scrap steel 4 inch or 6 inch diameter pipe. Go to a welding shop, vo-tech school, or community college with a welding program and have legs welded to top and leg braces/gussets added. Simple, sturdy, heavy. Want sturdier? Use thicker steel plate. You'll need lots of strong friends or some other way (hydraulics, like in fork lift, tractor with fork front, gantry crane, etc) to move that bench around!

Want to learn to weld? Check out a community college or adult education program on "Welding 101".

What size are you trying to get/make, what is your weight and money budget, and how stiff and sturdy do you want or need?


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## gadget_lover (Nov 23, 2006)

I have the gorilla rack setup. Some of the units are set up as storage, but one is set up as an 8 foot long work bench. The legs are perforated angle-iron. It's pretty sturdy, but I would not put 1/2 ton on it. I do have my micro mill and 7x12 lathe on it. You could use the gorilla rack as a starting point if you reinforced the legs and the 4 foot long runners that hold the shelf. I bolted mine to the adjoining racks (side and back), so effectively 3 of the 4 legs are doubled.

As moonrise said, bolt together can be quite sturdy. So can wood. I don't think a slab of solid maple is required. I've seen massively sturdy tables made butcher block style. A cladding of sheetmetal glued to the top will provide a vibration free protection of the wood.

I wish I could help you weld it up. I've not had the time to learn how to use my stick welder. 

Daniel


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## modamag (Nov 23, 2006)

This is the bench that I made the first time to house my C6 Bench Lathe (~500lbs) and X2 Mini Mill (~150 lbs). 

The four corner post are 4x4 and two center post forming the draws are 2x4.

The two cross beams are 2x4, yep I messed up should have went with 2x6 here. The problem is 2x6 will raised the height above my work level (40") or make it too low for my toolbox to slide underneath.

The 3/4" MDF is the thickest slab I can find at HD. Wish they had something like 1.5-2" thick.

There are currently multiple braces underneath the loaded point.

As you can see the center kinda buckle after a year of dead weight. It bow by ~ 0.5-1.0" at the center.

I want to avoid this on my next bench.

*Moonrise: *Great idea regarding the steel tubing. I'll probably try to find some @ Sims surplus. It's gonna be hard to go to the local school though due to incompatible time. I might just have to learn how to weld.

Size / budget / weight... hum ...
1. Table size 72"x36"
2. Budget is < $300
3. Two dead weight location ... 500 lbs (8x14 footprint) & 150 lbs (8x12 footprint).

BTW: how can you bolt a 90 degrees joint of a tube to a x-beam? :thinking:

*gadget_lover: *I wish you live down here in the S. Bay we could have so many fun projects to work on.


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## Mirage_Man (Nov 23, 2006)

> The 3/4" MDF is the thickest slab I can find at HD. Wish they had something like 1.5-2" thick.



You can always laminate several pieces of MDF together to get your desired thickness. I used to glue 2 3/4" pieces together for speaker cabinets. 

However I don't really like MDF as it will likely sag if not properly braced. I would highly recommend Baltic Birch or Marine grade plywood. 

MM


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## vandrecken (Nov 23, 2006)

For a worktop, if you can find it, buy a 4x4 foot sheet of 18 ply birch. It's about 3/4 inch thick with as it says 18 layers of good quality birch, very much better quality than standard ply.

Rip it into two 2x4 slabs and screw and glue them together to make a 36 ply top. It's solid as a rock and makes a brilliant surface to bolt machine tools onto.

My own bench is built like this on a wooden underframe but it would work a treat with a welded steel frame.

Birch ply is relatively hard to get hold of and pretty expensive but it's very stable and probably stronger than most choices. In the UK, a solid maple top of any thickness would cost a bomb. I love the stuff and the hardness would be nice for woodworking but the ply top would be a pretty good alternative if you want to install machinery on it.

Cheers


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## gadget_lover (Nov 23, 2006)

>>>BTW: how can you bolt a 90 degrees joint of a tube to a x-beam? 


I imagine it's done by cutting a slit in the tube that matches the thickness of the X-beam. Then run a bolt through from the side.







I could, of course, be wrong.

Yeah, Jonathan, we could do some crazy stuff.

Dan


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## MoonRise (Nov 24, 2006)

Note, MDF will sag pretty easily under load unless the FRAME holds it up. I think that was your main problem Jonathan. Don't rely on an MDF top to not sag unless it is well supported underneath by a stiff frame.

Redo your bench, but instead of just a perimeter frame, do a perimeter frame with ladder cross pieces as well. Also, for a 6ft long table supporting ~1000 pounds, run the four corner 4x4 posts as well as two (or four) mid-span 4x4 posts as well.

If you want the top to be MDF (I wouldn't, I'd go for some thick plywood instead and I'd probably double -THAT- up and laminate it with some Titebond woodglue ), you really-really-really need the frame to be stiff and just use the MDF as the top 'skin' worksurface. MDF is used for speaker cabinets a lot because it is 'dead' and doesn't buzz too much and it is generally strong enough for the task (and there is usually all sorts of cross bracing inside the cabinet as well to make it stiffer too!). And speaker cabinets usually don't have to support 1000 pounds!

You could use the existing bench and just stick a slab of steel plate on top and attach the plate to the bench as needed. A 3'x6' steel plate 1/2 inch thick will be ~360 pounds though. :naughty: 

If you don't weld or can't get it welded (remember that you'd have to buy or rent a welding machine and some practice pieces to PRACTICE on first), and if you want a steel frame, then I'd suggest using square box tubing with at least 1/8 inch wall thickness and just drill mounting holes where needed and just bolt it all together. But your budget point of $300 is going to be tough to do a sturdy 3'x6' bench all in steel for that price unless you come into some good salvage/scrap bargains.

At the $300 price point, I'd say just make a sturdy wooden bench with 8 4x4 legs spaced 2ft apart, a ladder frame for the top out of 2x6, and the top surface of laminated doubled 3/4" AC-or-better plywood for a 1.5" thick top. You'll just have to put the roll-around toolbox someplace else, but the compressor can probably still fit.


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## cloud (Nov 24, 2006)

MoonRise said:


> I'd say just make a sturdy wooden bench with 8 4x4 legs spaced 2ft apart, a ladder frame for the top out of 2x6, and the top surface of laminated doubled 3/4" AC-or-better plywood for a 1.5" thick top. You'll just have to put the roll-around toolbox someplace else, but the compressor can probably still fit.


 
+ 1 here modamag, many things i was going to suggest has been mentioned above.

I work with a lot of wood in my spare time, with planning,you could build a bench that would outlive you... as suggested use marine ply birch or hardwood variety. also use a hard softwood like yellow pine or US oak if a cheap source could be found for some of the construction. If you wish to increase the rigidity of the legs, use say 3/8" ply screwed against the leg sections ( ie box them in say ends & sides leaving front open)
maybe you could make some drawings & get the local timber yard to pre-cut some or all of the sections for you to save time if you dont have a power mitre saw,try to use mortice or half cut joints or even cut in to the frame to accept the centre pieces/framework braces,glued & screwed this would be strong.

good luck


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## loneranger (Nov 25, 2006)

You can probably make a good bench out of wood. It's simpler than using metal. I made my work bench with eight 2x6 planks for the table top. I used three sets of legs made of of 2x4. These were reinforced by another 2x4. Basically, if you're looking at it from the front (you see the end of the eight 2x6 planks), the 2x6 sit on top of three squares made of 2x4. To finish it off, I used two more 2x4 to connect the middle of all the legs together. I used braces to screw the legs to the table top. I didn't need a smooth surface, but I could have placed a thin sheet of plywood on top. Currently, I have only about three hundred pounds of stuff on it. I gave my design to two mechanical engineers I know; they said that it would handle a thousand pounds without any problems.


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## scott.cr (Nov 30, 2006)

Go to mcmaster.com and type "machine table" into the search box. I bought one of their 36" by 28" tables, it was about $210 and rated for 1,500 lbs. for the top and bottom shelf. Real nice, thick, sturdy piece of welded steel and it actually doesn't look to "old school rusty" haha...

The one I bought was able to fit through the standard doorway in my tool room... I just laid it on its side and rotated it in a "C" pattern (you'll see what I mean if you try getting one thru a standard doorway).

Right now on the table I have my mill, lathe, and all my metal stocks on the bottom shelf.


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## MoonRise (Nov 30, 2006)

re: the mcmaster tables. The tables and their tops and legs will (obviously or hopefully) support the listed weight capacities, but IMHO putting a 500 pound machine on a 3 ft x 6 ft 12 gauge top supported only by the angle iron perimeter framing is just a buzzing, vibrating, and not solid way to go.

I recently made an 18x30 inch work/welding table and used 1/8 inch plate for the top and the shelf, with perimeter frames and four corner legs all out of angle iron and everything all welded together. The table will hold a reasonable (or unreasonable) amount of weight, but the dang 1/8 inch plate is slightly warped and wavy and oil-cans if/when I point-load something on it. If the top plate was placed on a flat and sturdy ladder-frame underneath, I have little doubt that the table would be more sturdy and flatter (as long as the frame was flat and sturdy!).

Note that 1/8 inch plate is 11 gauge and 0.125 inch thick, whereas 12 gauge plate is 7/64 or 0.109 thick. It does make a difference in the weight and the stiffness of the plate (stiffness is related to the 3rd power of the section thickness). A 3x6 foot plate in 1/8 inch steel would be ~91.7 pounds and in 12 gauge plate would be ~80.2 pounds. 

Unless you used a very-very-very thick top, whether steel or wood or aluminum or whatever, you do not and really can not rely on the top to be or stay flat and to not sag or buzz or bow or vibrate. Make the frame and legs carry the load and then have the top as the top-surface. The stiffer and flatter the frame, the thinner (within limits) the top plate can be, and vice versa.

Thick to me for a 3x6 ft table supported at the corners and/or a perimeter frame with the purpose of holding a 500 pound machine tool and not sagging or buzzing during use of said tool would be a minimum of 1/2 inch in steel and 1.5 inch in wood (and note that to me MDF is not really wood, it is a wood by-product and not rated or intended for structural uses). Beef up the frame to a ladder-type frame and that top will be stiffer and stay flatter, beef up the frame and also put mid-span supports in and the whole table and top get stiffer and stay that way in use as well.

One drawback for mobility or doing it yourself as I pointed out in a previous post is that a 1/2 inch thick steel plate 3x6 ft will weigh about 360 pounds all by itself. To me that is a careful 4 man lift at least.


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## Zman (Nov 30, 2006)

I would also say try www.mcmaster.com
search for "all-welded steel workbenches"
part number 6682T44 has a capacity of 3000 pounds for $275


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## will (Nov 30, 2006)

The one thing to stay away from is MDF. It sucks up moisture and sags in no time. Marine grade plywood is good, baltic birch is better ($$$$) Easy to do is a double layer of 3/4 plywood, glued together, and supported underneath with some framing. You can pick up a sheet of laminate and put that on the top, makes it easy to clean.

The thickest sheet goods I have seen is 1 inch,


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## modamag (Nov 30, 2006)

I took all your suggestion and went to the local hardwood lumber store looking for maple & birch. OUCH! OUCH! OUCH! Just for the countertop alone the cost was like $600 (maple) and $480(birch).

So I took it down a step by making it out of plywood. Here's the detail.

6 4x4 Posts, the two center post are offset so that they are right under the machine.
2 2x4x6' front & center cross beam 12" appart. I would have made these 2x6 but then it's no longer ergonomic or by toolbox won't fit underneath. Spacing is a premium
1 2x6x6' rear cross beam
Cross ladder pattern laced between the cross beam to evenly distribute the load
3 2x12x6' stacked side by side.
to top it of I got a 16G stainless steel sheet 
All the major junction are notched/glue/screw/bolted. While the non critical ones are just glued/screwed together.

So what's the total damage so far.

Wood cost ... $120
3'x6' SS sheet ... $65
White Paint ... FREE leftover from the house
The whoopping cough/cold/fever ... FREE courtesy of arctic air (I think it's because goldserve is in town)

So everything is pretty much assembled and painted. I got to mount the side cabinet door & magnet latch.

I'll try to grab a picture or two this weekend when my garage & self is in a little better shape. Thanx everyone for the help.


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## Monolith (Nov 30, 2006)

Costco has a nice bench for $200. It has gray silver legs and a 1.5 to 2.0 inch top.

I couldn't find the instore version online, but they do have another one for $369 online for 4,000lb loads.

Costco 4,000lb Bench


Sams Club online has the $200 version:

1.75" Maple Top


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## missionaryman (Dec 3, 2006)

too bad I only just saw this, I could have sent some Ironbark over to one of our warehouses in Sanfrancisco or Philadelphia for the cost of shipping - I would have just piggy backed it onto one of our containers.
they probably had something in stock you could have used - quite a few of the Australian Eucalypts are harder and stronger than US Maple


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