# A bit disapointed in the MCE optics



## trout (Oct 18, 2008)

Hi folks I have been planning a triple MCE bike light since they were announced and now it is done I am just a bit disapointed in it performance 
the beam shots are here 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209991

now I have read on here that the multi chip devices are hard to get a good optic .

I was thinking that the MCE would be the holy grail for the bike lights but I think the optic people have not yet got to grips with this rapidly moving development.

so I have had a play with some XRE optics on a MCE and here are the pics 

Following on from earlier I have gathered all the optics hanging around in my garage.
and tried to do a comparison .
I set up an MCE on a block of ali so I could stand the optics on it and set it on the floor pointing up at the ceiling so distance light to ceiling is 9 feet 
The black tapes are 1 foot long and 1 foot apart to give a scale.
And yes my wife thinks I am mad as a shoe.
I have underexposed to see the beam better I hope this is OK
first 4 are carclo 20 mm optics sadly they all look the same but they are - frosted tight / 2 frosted narrow / 1 frosted wide . I have no idea which is which.
these ore out of the stemlight and I am going to try the Ledil XRE optics in it next.when I trim the square cotners off 



















The next 3 are Ledil XRE optics in order = real spot / smooth spot / eliptical . 















next is a carclo mce 25.5 mm tight spot 








dealextreme aspherical 26 mm out of focus and nearly focused












and last an optic from a tesco cree torch 







Comments welcome


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## Hack On Wheels (Oct 18, 2008)

A couple of those aren't bad... but the ones with dim centres are kind of sad, really. I just want to see someone using the boomerang reflectors, the beamshots in the datasheet for them look pretty good, and they are nice and compact!


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## StevelKnievel (Oct 18, 2008)

I hope the boomerang reflectors are good!!! The best solution I've found so far is to mod either the IMS20 or the IMS27 reflectors by enlarging the hole in the bottom and sputtering the reflector surface. The IMS20 takes a bit less work than the IMS27, but the IMS27 gives a much brighter spot. I'm sure the range of McRxx reflectors would be good too...


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## LukeA (Oct 18, 2008)

Those pictures are too big. The forum limit is 800px in width.


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## Gryloc (Oct 18, 2008)

trout,

Thanks for the beamshots. I am concerned that the MC-Es that I ordered will not be fully enjoyed because of my limited collection of optics and reflectors. I ordered one of carlcos 26mm optics and the boomerang reflector from Cutter along with the MC-Es. I hope they perform well!

Out of all of the optics that you tried with the MC-E, which is your favorite? The pictures are great, but you would be a better judge after seeing them first hand. I was hoping to find an optic or reflector that would produce a tight, but smooth beam. Anything that is very usable, but not too floody, would be great. Oh, and I never became a fan of beams with donuts. To me, they are distracting, even when using them outdoors while working.

Steve,

It is nice hearing that the IMS20 and IMS27 work decently. I am glad to hear that IMS reflectors are still produced. I always loved the beams from them, and I remember using them for the original luxeon back in the day. I still have and use them today. I wonder if IMS still designs new reflectors these days. If they could only make different versions of their reflectors for the latest LEDs available today... Care to post any beamshots with your modded reflectors? Thanks.


-Tony


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## trout (Oct 19, 2008)

LukeA said:


> Those pictures are too big. The forum limit is 800px in width.


 
Sorry I will try and resize them when I workout how


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## trout (Oct 19, 2008)

I know this has become an obssesion or call it the british bulldog spirit
and I am sorry for taking up your time on here . 
This is the follow up to the indoor shots from the lenses

I am sorry that some pics are a bit wonky but it was windy and I was trying to hold the optic to the MCE with one hand and press the shutter button and they stay still for 6 seconds
and the distances are 100 mtrs to the van the and 10 metres to the hat 

This was the set up 






the 4 * 20 mm carclo optics frosted / 1 tight -2 narrow-1 med I dont know now which is which .


















Then LEDIL - real spot - smooth spot - eliptical XRE optics













Carclo 26 mm tight optic




That tesco torch optic 





the DX aspherical 










I am going to trim the corners off 2 ledil smooth spot and 1 real spot and install them into the stem light for now. to try and tighten the beam up a little.
Ok that is another 2 hours of darkness used up


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## jirik_cz (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks for the beamshots. They are very helpful. The Ledil real spot looks pretty good.


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## steve6690 (Oct 19, 2008)

Cheers for posting the beamshots trout. TBH these pics prove to me that white wall shots are almost irrelevant in the "real world". I am thinking of sliding three of these MC-E's (or even 5 maybe) into a dive light and the carclo 26mm tight optic looks to be just the job.


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## PhantomPhoton (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks for the beamshots. The Carclo 26mm tight optic looks really exciting.
I think I know a really good use for one. :naughty:


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## Essexman (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks for all the beam shots, it must have taken you ages!

I stumbbled across this company the other day, they have some nice looking reflectors and optics,.



> That tesco torch optic


 I went to Tescos this morning, sold out of those 2C torches. Now I know where they all went !


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## trout (Oct 19, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> Thanks for the beamshots. They are very helpful. The Ledil real spot looks pretty good.


 
Jirik 
I dont know if you have seen my bike light beamshots 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209991
This is where it all started and I am in the process of putting 3 of the ledil smooth spot in my triple MCE bike light 


steve 
Yes I agree I was really unhappy with the carclo 26 mm optic shining it on the wall but out on the trail it shows what it can do nicely


phantom 

go on tell us what


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## jirik_cz (Oct 19, 2008)

trout said:


> Jirik
> I dont know if you have seen my bike light beamshots
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209991
> This is where it all started and I am in the process of putting 3 of the ledil smooth spot in my triple MCE bike light



Yes I've seen them. Very good job :thumbsup:
Btw. do you have any optics that are designed specifically for MC-E ?


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## trout (Oct 19, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> Yes I've seen them. Very good job :thumbsup:
> Btw. do you have any optics that are designed specifically for MC-E ?


 

Yes all the Carclo ones are MCE spec 

the others I was just testing to see


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## steve6690 (Oct 20, 2008)

Essexman said:


> Thanks for all the beam shots, it must have taken you ages!
> 
> I stumbbled across this company the other day, they have some nice looking reflectors and optics,.
> 
> I went to Tescos this morning, sold out of those 2C torches. Now I know where they all went !



Yep, on paper their optics seem really good, and cheap. Polymer Optics Ltd are a pain in the arse to buy from in the UK though. You have to buy £50 + vat per order but the sales chap did put me in touch with their dealer for small quantities. I phoned them and guess what.....£50 minimum order. At £1.25 each that's a lot of optics I'll never use. I could be tempted to run a Group Buy though if anyone's interested...


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## yellow (Oct 20, 2008)

When You search for the best beam, why not try the best "normal" focusing device for an XR-E, when the MC-E is similar sized?

And that is the *Sandwich Shoppe 19 mm reflector*, nothing else
(and for sure no optic)


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## steve6690 (Oct 20, 2008)

yellow said:


> When You search for the best beam, why not try the best "normal" focusing device for an XR-E, when the MC-E is similar sized?
> 
> And that is the *Sandwich Shoppe 19 mm reflector*, nothing else
> (and for sure no optic)



Too expensive for multi-emitter lights. My current project would need 7 reflectors


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## Gryloc (Oct 21, 2008)

yellow said:


> When You search for the best beam, why not try the best "normal" focusing device for an XR-E, when the MC-E is similar sized?
> 
> And that is the *Sandwich Shoppe 19 mm reflector*, nothing else
> (and for sure no optic)



Hmmm. I do not think that because an XR-E works behind one reflector, than the MC-E will also, just because they are the same size. Do not forget that the apparent image size of the MC-E is much larger than that of the XR-E, so you would still get a wider beam. There is a possibility of having a donut as well. The McR-19 may not produce as many artifacts due to the orange peel, but no-one can make that judgement until you try it. 

What one thinks is a "normal" focusing device may not be true. Sure McGizmo provides very fine, high quality reflectors in his McR line, but they are not always the best in every situation! Do not forget that there are a few well-designed optics out there for the XR-E that produces a nice beam pattern. Also, I understand that after purchasing 7 MC-Es, $119 extra for reflectors is painful.


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## HumanLumen (Oct 22, 2008)

Has anyone obtained any figures using a M*g reflector? I know that using a P7 you can get 25lux/lumen, and with a useful spill to boot (compare this with Polymer Optics Ltd of 7lux/lumen). I am aware that the m*g refl is bigger.
Justa thought - sorry if it was a little 'off-topic'

HL


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## Isthereanybodyoutthere (Oct 22, 2008)

Where do you get the 26 mm Carclo ones that are MCE spec??:thinking:
I am in Europa 

Thanks


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## trout (Oct 22, 2008)

Well they are made in the UK but mine came from cutters so as I am in UK also it has been round the world already


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## dnlwthrn (Oct 22, 2008)

I ordered one from Cutter (haven't received it yet), but it is 26.5mm. Not sure if that's the same one others are talking about.


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## LukeA (Oct 22, 2008)

trout said:


> Sorry I will try and resize them when I workout how



re-upload them to photobucket after changing photobucket's image size to 800*600.


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## trout (Oct 22, 2008)

LukeA said:


> re-upload them to photobucket after changing photobucket's image size to 800*600.


 

Thanks OK will do


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## LukeA (Oct 23, 2008)

trout said:


> Thanks OK will do



Thanks! Now I can look at them without scrolling sideways!


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## longleg (Oct 24, 2008)

trout said:


> Yes all the Carclo ones are MCE spec


 
Remember that even the narrowest Carclo 20mm MC-E optic has a beam angle of 20 degrees.

On the other hand - the narrowest 26,5mm har 13 degrees.


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## canyon (Jan 6, 2009)

I try Ledil boomerang ss with single P7 and Mc-e led and get a lot flood. I get better results with dx flashlights reflectors like this mc-e http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2688112/ it`s ok for helmet. 
Then I try Ledils with cree Q5, single was dim but promising and 3XQ5 was nice, so nice that 3XQ5 +ledil boomerang ss will be my next handlebar light.
Idon`t know why, but 3XQ5 gave a bit smaller and brighter flood that single P7 or mc-e at same reflector? ( and sorry my english spelling


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## aljsk8 (Jan 6, 2009)

hope this isnt railroading a bit but im in the uk and was thinking about making a 3x mce light hopefully with your help trout

i currently have a 3 xre setup with Q2-5A

you complain about beam paterns but my questions is
do 3 mce look insanly bright compared to 3 xre?

is it worth the upgrade?

another question is would any boost drivers work with 3mce
i have 12v 3700mah nimh packs that i would want to use

Alex


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## trout (Jan 6, 2009)

aljsk8 said:


> hope this isnt railroading a bit but im in the uk and was thinking about making a 3x mce light hopefully with your help trout
> 
> i currently have a 3 xre setup with Q2-5A
> 
> ...


 


Hi Alex .

I suppose I am too picky and want perfection 

in answer to your questions 

yes 3 MCE is insanely bright and blows away anythink I have done before 
here comes the but it would seem these multi emitter leds dont throw a beam too well and with my triple there is an area in front of the expanse of light that is dark and seems to annoy me when riding .

My answer to this you may have seen in the mag mce thread is to use 2 mce and 2 R2 s while I have not done a ride with this light yet ( tonight hopefully) it does seem to have the best of both worlds and fill in the dark area.

I am planning a 2 MCE 4 XRE light soon and plan to use the HIPFLEX driver 
when it is available .

I am running the triple with a MaxFlex from a 14.8 v li ion and it is fine .

You would need to have your maxflex very well heat sinked from a 12 v pack but I think it will cope


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## steve6690 (Jan 6, 2009)

I had four optics arrive yesterday from Cutter. Two were from carclo - the 20mm and 26.5mm spot optics, 10193 and 10391. They are total rubbish. The Carclo website lists them as Luxeon optics which might explain that. I also have the Ledil Boom ss reflector which is very good for its size. A close second is the Ledil LM1-D 20mm optic. The boom just has a slightly more defined hotspot but either will be fine if you want a floody beam.


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## gibby_z (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm starting to think that the multichip leds are only going to be floods unless you want a lens projecting the chips.


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## Blindasabat (Jan 6, 2009)

The Ledil EVA-D looks promising from the beamshot in the datasheet.

It is an 8 degree beam (spec). And it is 35mm diameter, which is probably what you need for a spot from a quad die LED.

I just got one from Brum's group buy and will wire it up to an MC-E soon.


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## RyanA (Jan 7, 2009)

yellow said:


> When You search for the best beam, why not try the best "normal" focusing device for an XR-E, when the MC-E is similar sized?
> 
> And that is the *Sandwich Shoppe 19 mm reflector*, nothing else
> (and for sure no optic)



Has anyone tried this yet.


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## steve6690 (Jan 7, 2009)

Interestingly, the cheapo DX 18.5mm reflector is not bad with the MC-E. Very similar output to the Ledil LM1-D but slightly less defined hotspot. I haven't tried the SS 19mm reflector as I think it's too expensive.


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## clg0159 (Jan 7, 2009)

Maybe Ra could make a glass TIR that would work well. Even though it would be expensive it might be worth it.


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