# WHAT THE AA?



## Jash (May 5, 2010)

Err...just gonna have a whinge coz it bugs me to no end.

What? I hear you say.

People who go "I only pack a AA light in case I need batteries in an emergency."

HELLLLOOOOOOO!!!!!

You're a FLASHAHOLIC!!!

By that very definition you oughta have at least six months supply of power on hand.

Here's how it goes: 

You pack a AA light, throw a pack of lithiums in the glove box, your murse (manbag), backpack, bedside draw, up your nose, I don't care. They take up all of deck of cards worth of space and are there when you need them.

You pack a CR123 light, see above. 

You pack an 18650 light, have another one charged ALWAYS!!!

You have a maglite, sorry, D's are a bit big for your murse. Keep some alkalines in a cool, dark place. Better still, get some D-AA adaptors and keep some lithiums in stock.

This is not rocket science folks. My mother knows you needs spares on hand. 

If you think the power will go out for a week, HAVE SOME BACK UP!!!

Yes, everybody is going to beat you to the corner store when the crap hits the fan and buy every last battery, so be, I repeat BE ready. 







Disclaimer: This opinion is in no way sponsored by any manufacturer of batteries or related parties.


----------



## andrewnewman (May 5, 2010)

+1 !!!

I have always felt that this particular justification for choosing AA battery formats to be pretty weak.

The only (contrived) justification I could come up for to choose AA batteries based upon availability would be if I decided to hike the Appalachian trail. Here I would have a weight limitation on how many batteries I could carry and I'd be required to restock at those little supplies stores at towns the trail crosses. Pretty sure my only choice would be AA alkalines.

Now, having staid this, I do understand that in some countries lithium batteries are extremely hard to get and/or tremendously expensive.


----------



## duboost (May 5, 2010)

while i agree we should always have a stock of spares on hand (regardless of our preferred battery type), there have been times when i admittedly have let my supply dwindle down to very little before taking the initiative to replenish.



Jash said:


> If you think the power will go out for a week, HAVE SOME BACK UP!!!


well put, but there are instances (earthquakes for example) where you may have no idea an emergency is imminent (unlike say a hurricane), and if an earthquake were to knock out power during those times when i had let my supply run down, i'd be in a pretty sad position. 

However, in a disaster situation like that, my thinking is that most people would be clearing the shelves of all the common AA, AAA, C, D batteries and fewer people swiping the CR123's and other less common batteries. So either way, i like to have as many different types of lights at home to suit my needs (and just as a way to justify more lights ). So aside from your common battery types and CR123's, a CR2 light might be handy to have, and also the standard glo-toobs run off a 23A. Odd batteries that fewer people would be likely to grab, but which most drug stores/walmarts/targets etc stock :shrug:


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (May 5, 2010)

The way things are going with Australia Post restrctions on lithium batteries it won't surprise me if in a year or two we Down Underites won't be able to internet order cheap bulk CR123's from overseas which would then mean we would have to buy them at shops here at five to ten bucks each. That's reason enough for me to be thinking that the choosers of the AA format have their heads screwed on just right.


----------



## Ragiska (May 5, 2010)

can you scavange cr123's from cameras, toys, and remote controls? do cr123's power your other emergency devices such as weather radios and handheld gps units?

besides, the AA size has MORE energy than the cr123 size anyhow, lithium primaries have a LONGER shelf life, and your stockpile can power more than just flashlights (see above). 

personal preference, I think single cell lights are much more comfortable to hold, being long enough to not be swallowed up in your hand, and are skinnier.

also, on a number of occasions, some OTHER non-flashlight device has ran out of power, and the batteries in my flashlight have saved the day to power it. batteries in your camera are dead and you are about to miss pictures from your child's birthday? 18650 camera? i think not.


----------



## Jay R (May 5, 2010)

Jash said:


> Yes, everybody is going to beat you to the corner store when the crap hits the fan and buy every last battery, so be, I repeat BE ready.


 


Yes, but !!!

 When my AA goes flat and the stores run out I’ll just take two out of my TV remote, when they are flat I’ll take four out of my electric stapler, when those are flat I’ll take six out of my son’s Elmo toy, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. I recon that without opening a new packet or leaving the house I could put my hands on at least 40+ AA batteries. Most in pretty good condition. Personal preferences aside, having a light that takes the most common battery type in the world has something going for it.


----------



## Batou00159 (May 5, 2010)

currently sitting on aa bat types:

Alkline AA

48 gp alkline
14 energizer alklines
22 kodac alklines
64 energizer L91 lithium

Rechargables AA

12 duraloop 2000mah
12 gp powerbank 2600mah
12 uniross 1300mah
4 energizer 2450mah
4 duracell 2650 mah
2 yusa delta 1600mah
2 uniross 2000mah

Alkline AAA

24 kodak
5 energizer
13 energizer lithium

Rechargable AAA

4 energizer 1000mah
6 sony cycle energy 900mah
4 sony cycle energy 800mah
2 gp powerbank 600mah
2 energizer 900mah


8 duracell d cells
8 duracell c cells

good amounts in case of any type of problem and withe 150 hours approx on 2 aa (nightcore d20 r2)approx 10,000 hours eek!

re testing has given the d20r2 on energizer alklines 227 hours on minimum


----------



## LiteShow (May 5, 2010)

+1 !!!

Not forgetting the office too. Looking into our office supply cabinet, I see just AA & AAA batteries. 



Jay R said:


> Yes, but !!!
> 
> When my AA goes flat and the stores run out I’ll just take two out of my TV remote, when they are flat I’ll take four out of my electric stapler, when those are flat I’ll take six out of my son’s Elmo toy, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. I recon that without opening a new packet or leaving the house I could put my hands on at least 40+ AA batteries. Most in pretty good condition. Personal preferences aside, having a light that takes the most common battery type in the world has something going for it.


----------



## computernut (May 5, 2010)

I remember going to the store in an ice-storm and a big power outage and AA's and D's were the hardest thing to find (and generators). C's aren't used as much so I did have some luck finding those. When I see large packs on sale I stock up as it's always handy to have the common battery types for when the remote or fire detector battery goes dead.

I take all my used 123 cells and wrap tape around them and throw them in a plastic bin (I keep singles and pairs taped separately). I have some direct-drive battery vampires that will suck the rest of the life out of them. I'm thinking I could go for weeks without using a new cell if all I cared about was low-level light. I usually order 123's in batches of 50 which would power my dual-level E2L for a really long time if I was worried about runtime. I'll definitely keep some AA flashlights around but I'm a big fan of 123's. The light that gets the most runtime is my G3 and I've converted that to rechargeables so I'm not plowing through 123's like I used to.


----------



## LEDninja (May 5, 2010)

In my neck of the woods CR123As are 2 for $19.99 + tax. There are problems with importing them from US online sources due to shipping restrictions. A 4 pack of Duraloop AAs is the same at full price, usually I can get them at 1/2 price.

I am already using AAs in my portable radio, walkman, CD player, pencil sharpener, calculator, illuminated magnifier, digital camera etc. There are no CR123A versions of those things and I like to keep my battery types to a minimum. 

Less than a decade ago the 1AA flashlights were pathetic producing 3 lumens or less. The Nuwai QIII produced 30 lumens with a CR123A which needs a 3D Mag to equal. With a RCR123A the QIII produces 75 lumens. But the EZAA I got last year outputs 130 lumens on high. the Current Nitecore EZAA is rated 145 lumens. The 123A Nitecore EX10SP is also rated 145 lumens. The output of 1AA lights has reached the point where the slightly brighter CR123A lights are not significantly brighter in practical terms.

It used to be most AA lights were 2AA making them 65 mm longer than a CR123A light. Since the Fenix L1P introduced the bright 1AA light the length difference is only 15 mm.

A number of CR123A lights do not support RCR123A (Fenix being the prime example). So converting to the 123A format means keeping track of which light can take which battery.

CR123A do not have the power to support SSC-P7, MC-E, SST-50, ST-90 so are now being passed over in favour of 18650.

-

"in an emergency" usually means "in an emergency AWAY FROM HOME". I found out the hard way it is no fun feeling my way up 7 flights of stairs during a blackout. And I was in the building I live in. Just 70 feet down from my front door!


----------



## Anak (May 5, 2010)

Where can I find a solar charger for the RCR123s?


----------



## Snipe315 (May 5, 2010)

My reasons for usually only EDC'ing an AA light are about availability.

I'm not talking about MY supply of batteries; I'm talking about what I can find in local stores.

Here is a scenerio:
I'm out having dinner and I'm on the way to a show or movie. I'd used my 1xAA flashlight quite a bit earlier in the day and the battery has just about run out. I'm driving a rental vehicle instead of my own so my normal supply of backup batteries aren't available. It is getting late and the only "store" I can find is a gas station quicky-mart.

I'll bet you that store will have AA batteries.

I'll also bet you they won't have CR123 batteries.

:devil:


----------



## post tenebras (May 5, 2010)

I think it's wise to keep a supply of primary batteries on hand and have a variety of lights to cover different battery bases. For this reason, I added a PAL Light (9v) to my collection. If things really get desperate and the CR123s, AAs, AAAs, and Ds are all depleted, I can scrounge 9v's out of the smoke alarms.

I've always thought AA lights were good for travel but inferior to CR123 for daily use. That all changed in the last week--I've become a fanatical AA convert because I got a new, awesome ArcMania Extreme Micro AA.


----------



## PCC (May 5, 2010)

If you look at the lights that I have you'll find 7 D cell lights (Mags and Fultons), 9 AA lights (more if you count the D to AA adapters that I can use), 2 CR123a lights (1 X CR123a and 2 X CR123a), a few 9V clip on lights, and a few Li-Ion lights. I also have one C cell light and three AAA lights. My MiNi 123 can use CR2 batteries as well, in a pinch. Heck, I even have two N cell lights, though I can convert them to use AAA cells if needed.

I think I have my bases pretty well covered in case "The Big One" hits San Francisco and we lose power for a week. The Loma Prieta earthquake that hit back in 1989 was a 6.9 on the Richter scale and the power was turned off automatically throughout the region for about 24 hours. An earthquake in the 7s or 8s would probably have the power out for a week or more.


----------



## Robin24k (May 5, 2010)

I only use AA's and AAA's because they are common and cheaper. More than once, I've taken the batteries out of my light to power something else, and it has been really handy. Interchangeability is always a plus. :thumbsup: Nothing to do with availability in stores, I probably have several dozen spare batteries in many formats.


----------



## LiteShow (May 5, 2010)

Another way of looking at this is supply and demand. Stores generally stock items according to consumer demand. Walk into any store and you will quickly see that there is always many more AAs than say CR123 on sale. Why? because there is more demand and more devices out in our households/offices/wherever that use the AA. No doubt it is the world's most popular battery format.

As JAY R has mentioned, AA's are so abundant in his home. AA's are abundant in most homes whether you are a flashaholic home or not. 

So in a typical major disaster scenario (I am just imaging - major winter storm, flash flood, earthquake, whatever), because of the chaos (or curfew) out in the streets, you'll probably remain where you are, right? Chances are you won't be shopping for supplies. You'll either be home (than you are ok regardless of what battery type you use since you already have supplies). However, what if you are stuck at the office, the school or maybe a friend's house? You can't get to your car (where your spares are) and what you have on you is your trusty EDC. IF that's my case, I would like my EDC to use an AA.


----------



## AnAppleSnail (May 5, 2010)

My previous camera used AA batteries. So did my flashlight, headlamp, GPS, external flash, other flashlight, and fluorescent lamp. It was handy... interchangeability of AA is a product of its universality; which it's likely to keep for several years at least.


----------



## f22shift (May 5, 2010)

holy thread backfire lol
all of the above plus if you are on the go, it's good to consolidate battery types on devices. not only for your own device because someone in your group will be an airhead.


----------



## Jack Reacher (May 5, 2010)

*Aye to the A's?*

From my point of view — as an LED virgin — I was wondering why so many people on the CPF forums comment about the TK40 as "being a great light, *BUT* it uses *EIGHT* AA batteries".

Is their issue with the AAs or the number eight?

And having asked that question (apologies for being a bit OT) why would I choose the TK30 simply because it *doesn't* use AAs? I'm not confused..... much!

— Jack.


----------



## computernut (May 5, 2010)

*Re: Aye to the A's?*



Jack Reacher said:


> From my point of view — as an LED virgin — I was wondering why so many people on the CPF forums comment about the TK40 as "being a great light, *BUT* it uses *EIGHT* AA batteries".
> 
> Is their issue with the AAs or the number eight?
> 
> ...


 
The more cells you use the more you have to keep track of them, charge them, maintain them, and weed out any bad ones that crop up. You don't want cells that are years old mixing in with new cells. If you get multiple caddies you can preload cells but swapping 8 loose cells in the dark probably wouldn't be fun. After doing a swap you are lugging around 8 cells in your pocket or pack too. It would be interesting if someone made a large li-ion pack like they do for the Surefire M6.


----------



## Locoboy5150 (May 5, 2010)

Jash said:


> Err...just gonna have a whinge coz it bugs me to no end.
> What? I hear you say.
> People who go "I only pack a AA light in case I need batteries in an emergency."



I work very hard for my money Jash, thus I spend my money where I want to. Light-wise I spent my money on several AA powered lights because, as you noted, AA cells are readily available. I also like them. I spend my hard earned money on things that I like.

If you have a problem with that and if, as you say it bugs you to no end, then that's your problem. Deal with it on your end.

Otherwise, put your money where your mouth is and buy us some CR123, 18650, etcetera powered lights so people like myself that like AA powered lights and are perfectly happy with our purchases will not say why we bought what we liked.

PM me Jash if you're interested in fixing this problem that you have with what other people buy with their own money. One non-AA powered light will fix it, I guaranty it.


----------



## vali (May 5, 2010)

Same here. I am sure if you were where I live and ask you to find one single CR123 cells you will last serveral hours if you ever find one.

Getting them on the inet. Yes you can... if you dont mind paying more for the shipping than the cells itself unless you buy a ton of them.

Nowadays a typical AA flashlight is about 100 OTF lumens. For me, thats enough for a EDC. If I want more light or runtime, then its not an EDC and 2xAA will be the choice. Do you want more light or runtime? Add more cells or, if you find it too cumbersome, get a 18650 powered light. CR123? Unless you want your lights to show off there is no real advantage for me. Keep in mind that I mostly use low or mid light levels.

Then there is the multiple lihium cell issues. Mix an almost discharged cell and a full one and...  Mix a couple of alkaline (wich I dont use unless I want to get rid of them) or a pair of eneloops and you get a dead cell, but all your fingers will remain in your hand (yes, I know, I am overstating things, but you get the point).

Lots of people thing on cells as a thing you use and then throw it somewhere when they have no juice left. For me its a waste of money and not a very good thing for the environment, so I like to use rechargeables. RCR123 are a bit "tricky", plus there isnt a decent charger for them unless you go with a hobby charger. On the other hand finding a NiMH charger and cells is pretty easy (and you can even sleep when charging the cells!).


----------



## mbw_151 (May 5, 2010)

So what's the big deal here? All who espouse dedication to a single battery type are in violation of one of the prime CPF rules, "When in doubt, buy BOTH!" Have a 123 tube for your AA or 2AA Quark. Buy a Malkoff M30 for your 3 cell Surefires so you can use 2AA. Have at least one light that uses other common battery types. You don't have to EDC it, you don't have to love it, you just have to be able to find it. I prefer 123s, but have AA, 2AA and AAA lights. This is no different than having .22, .357, 9mm, and .45 in handguns. I prefer 9mm but have something that fires each caliber.

+1 on the advice to stock up. When the SHTF it may be too late to acquire anything. It may be very hard to get anywhere except on foot and that may not be fun. Big fires, earthquakes, ice/snow storms, tornados can happen fast. Have stuff and a plan on how to use it.


----------



## carrot (May 5, 2010)

Ragiska said:


> besides, the AA size has MORE energy than the cr123 size anyhow



lol, what?

I don't get the whole AA v CR123 holy war.

I have both, and I make use of both. There is no reason to boycott one over the other. 

It is also pretty silly to ignore some great lights simply because they do not use your battery of choice. (eg. I carry the 1xAAA Muyshondt Mako and 2xAAA 47s Preon 2 despite preferring CR123)

But for an EDC, there is no reason to choose an AA when 123 packs more juice and I can afford to feed my light better batteries. Clearly the CR123 offers many advantages, availability being the only real disadvantage.

I also never "run out" of batteries when I'm out somewhere, because I carry a spare flashlight, or spare batteries, or both. Chances of me completely running out of batteries is ridiculous. My bet is that it's the same for all of you. If you've actually found yourself completely without light, turn in your flashaholic card, right now.

As for the local store bit, in an emergency, CR123s are more likely to be in stock over AAs. Do you know why? Because everyone else will buy up AAs to use in their inefficient old krypton incans. And D cells to use in their bigger krypton incans. I don't know about you guys, but I see CR123s _everywhere_. Price is certainly expensive, but do you think stores won't gouge alkaline prices too?

I keep AA lights around because AAs are ubiquitous, but I don't limit myself to underpowered AA lights simply because of it. I have a huge collection of CR123 lights and keep a reasonably large stock of CR123s to power them. Why not? Smaller, brighter, better.


----------



## Robin24k (May 5, 2010)

carrot said:


> But for an EDC, there is no reason to choose an AA when 123 packs more juice and I can afford to feed my light better batteries.


There is one major one...safety. I wouldn't want any lithium primaries that close to me. I would feel a little better with protected Li-Ion, but I'd still take alkaline or NiMH over any lithium-based battery.


----------



## Ragiska (May 5, 2010)

carrot said:


> lol, what?
> 
> But for an EDC, there is no reason to choose an AA when 123 packs more juice and I can afford to feed my light better batteries. Clearly the CR123 offers many advantages, availability being the only real disadvantage.



4.5Wh vs 4Wh for lithium primaries, 14500's get roughly 20-30% more runtime over 16340's in the same light.


----------



## carrot (May 5, 2010)

Is the extra .5Wh worth paying nearly double for? I can get good CR123s for about $1. Never was able to get AA Energizer E2 Ultimate Lithiums for that price. 

Plus, when you boost voltage (as you need to in order to reach the Vf of the average LED ~>3V) you are less efficient the more you have to boost the voltage. Since 3.0V is closer to the Vf of commonly used LEDs, there is less converter waste and higher efficiency.


----------



## Ragiska (May 5, 2010)

carrot said:


> Is the extra .5Wh worth paying nearly double for? I can get good CR123s for about $1. Never was able to get AA Energizer E2 Ultimate Lithiums for that price.
> 
> Plus, when you boost voltage (as you need to in order to reach the Vf of the average LED ~>3V) you are less efficient the more you have to boost the voltage. Since 3.0V is closer to the Vf of commonly used LEDs, there is less converter waste and higher efficiency.


double? bought at the same locations in similar quantities, they are the same to HALF the price!! plus they still work in all non-flashlight electronics, and the stockpile will have double the shelf life to the same percent initial capacity.


----------



## chenko (May 5, 2010)

What I have to say is that AA-powered lights have come a long way in shortening the performance gap over ther 123-powered ones.
What I keep in mind when drooling over a better performing 123 flashlight is that an AA flashlight probably even outperforms a 1 year older 123 flashlight, and all are costantly getting better and better as time passes... and both are "bright enough" to be honest! 
But... AA batteries have ALWAYS been cheaper (other than more available), and there are excellent rechargeable options available for less money than 123 primaries. That made me focus on the AA format.


----------



## computerpro3 (May 5, 2010)

Any 14500 compatible light like my Quark renders this entire debate pointless.

Single Cell AA formfactor
14500 compatability which gives equal or superior performance to CR123
200 OTF Lumens via AW 14500
A bit safer than CR123 since I'm using AW cells
Can take Alkalines in an emergency
Can take AAA batteries too in an emergency

Really, it's the perfect EDC light.


----------



## Jash (May 5, 2010)

This is not a AA vs CR123 thread folks. It was intended to show that as FLAHSAHOLICS, regardless of the chosen format, WE should have an ample supply of batteries on hand.

You don't own a gun and have only 3 rounds do you?

I EDC both a AA and a 123 light and ALWAYS carry enough charge to fill them twice (would give me a combined runtime of hundreds of hours on low).

To go out with a half charged battery and no spare is almost irresponsible.

As Carrot said, "If you've actually found yourself completely without light, turn in your flashaholic card, right now."


----------



## DM51 (May 5, 2010)

Wrong forum... moving it to the Batteries section...


----------



## carrot (May 5, 2010)

Ragiska said:


> double? bought at the same locations in similar quantities, they are the same to HALF the price!! plus they still work in all non-flashlight electronics, and the stockpile will have double the shelf life to the same percent initial capacity.


Please tell me where I can get E2 Lithiums for 50¢. I would like to buy some for my GPS, which annoyingly does not use CR123s.


----------



## Ragiska (May 5, 2010)

carrot said:


> Please tell me where I can get E2 Lithiums for 50¢. I would like to buy some for my GPS, which annoyingly does not use CR123s.


watch the numerous riteaid and cvs sales for $0.35-1.25ea. in bulk, they are $1 online. in specialty stores, they are <$1.75 (vs $2.50 for 123's) each, and in regular (ie grocery/walmart) stores they are $2.50 (vs $5-10 for 123's) each.


----------



## Jash (May 5, 2010)

*edit* computer played up.


----------



## Per-Sev (May 5, 2010)

Jash said:


> Err...just gonna have a whinge coz it bugs me to no end.
> 
> What? I hear you say.
> 
> ...



I was in Sam's Club today and they have a rack of batteries and out of all the batteries they have not a single 123. The only batteries I use at the moment are AA just for the reason that I can buy them with out having to mail order them to get a good price. I don't want to have to buy different batteries for all my lights so I stick with AA lights. I do have one light that uses AAA but its not in use at this time.


----------



## cckw (May 5, 2010)

I have had flashlight emergencies when the rest of the world was not. So when I stumbled into the convenience store for AA batt's they were on the shelf. Not CR123's though. The only other customers in the place were buying gas or Beer. So good thing I have AA lights


----------



## vali (May 5, 2010)

Jash said:


> This thread was not intended to be a AA vs 123 debate.



Sorry, but some phrases sounded like if you mainly use AA powered lights you dont deserve to have a flashlight.



> This was about being prepared regardless your power source.



That's why I stick with AA. I am unable to find CR123, being an emergency or not. The few places that carry them have prices skyhigh. (I've seen them for more than 10$ a piece).



> I EDC a AA and 123 light and always have at least enough power to re-fill them twice.


If you are unable to find 123 cells, there is not "enough power to re-fill".



> If an emergency were to rear its ugly head, I've got a combined runtime in the hundreds of hours on low, many tens of hours on med, and 10+ hours on high. And that's only the two lights I ALWAYS have with me. There's another 20 or so at home that I can ALWAYS re-fill at least twice.



I have enough eneloops, several chargers that work on 12V and a car where to plug them (plus more machines that can generate 12V), a generator, the cells on the remotes, camera and misc electronic equipment...

Even if all of that fails, I have gas powered lanterns and candles (somewhere).

The fact is the first post sounded like you were annoyed by people using only AA powered lights and not were embracing the great new chemistries...
Some of us are able to see the different options, see the pros and cons and then decide without being blinded by the "newer is better" dogma. Sometimes lithium is better, sometimes the typical AA, sometimes NiCad is the way to go or even SLA can be the best option.

Dont worry, most of us are not worried about people who think their options are the only that can be chosen. We just try to explain why we choose what we choose.


----------



## baterija (May 5, 2010)

cckw said:


> I have had flashlight emergencies when the rest of the world was not.



Exactly the point not usually made when we talk about emergencies here. An emergency doesn't mean major disaster it simply means that despite all planning the unexpected strikes.

Someone who has batteries stashed everywhere and in every bag has an emergency if they suddenly need to use their light a lot when they become separated from those usual locations. Someone through hiking the Appalachian trail has a battery emergency when they are going through their stock a little faster than even their worst case plans. A Soldier at the end of a intermittent supply line where every ounce they took in got carried on their back is suddenly in an emergency when resupply suddenly is tight or not showing up. (AA is available worldwide...even in many third world markets.)


----------



## Locoboy5150 (May 5, 2010)

Jash said:


> This was about being prepared regardless your power source.



It originally sounded like it "bugged you to no end" (to borrow your words) that some people were perfectly happy with what they bought, AA powered lights. Why does it bother you that people are happy with they bought with their own hard earned money? If it bugs you so much, buy the AA masses some other non-AA lights to try to change their minds. Please start with me as yes, I have admitted several times here that I like AA batteries for the reasons that I've previously given in other threads.

I don't like to see someone in so much discomfort. I also believe in putting one's money where their mouth is so pick out any light that isn't powered by AA batteries and send it to me to change my mind and to help end your misery.

Did it ever occur to you that some people here in CPF don't have the resources to purchase that many different lights and their different kinds of batteries? ...just a thought.

My offer still stands. Change my mind and end your pain.


----------



## kramer5150 (May 5, 2010)

Theres nothing wrong with backing up your backup:

Tier 1 => Eneloop AA
Tier 2 => Lithium Primary AA
Tier 3 => Duracell alkaline AA
Tier 4 => Corner drug store alkaline AA
Tier 5 => Borrow from a friend alkaline AA
Tier 6 => Steal from corner drug store alkaline AA
Tier 7 => Steal from friend alkaline AA

OK... this is a bit absurd, but you get my point, and OF COURSE every CPF'er will have backup cells for their first 2-3 tiers. With 18650 (for example) you only have Tier 1 and you're :candle:. No matter how many 18650 cells you stock pile, they will self discharge faster than Lithium primary or Eneloop AA. In survival preparedness its about layering your backups... not stock-piling all your eggs in one basket.


----------



## LEDninja (May 5, 2010)

Tier 1 => Eneloop AA
Tier 2 => Lithium Primary AA
Tier 3 => Duracell alkaline AA
Tier 4 => Corner drug store alkaline AA
Tier 5 => Borrow from a friend alkaline AA
Maybe
Tier 6 => Corner drug store super heavy duty AA
Tier 7 => Dollar store heavy duty AA
is better than advising people to go around stealing things.


----------



## Jash (May 5, 2010)

So, it appears some people don't have a proper comprehension of my opening post.

Find me if you will, where I said AA's were inferior.

Find me if you will where I state that CR123's are plentiful.

Some of you have seriously missed the point.

IF, read that again, If there is an emergency, like an earthquake that buries all the batteries under piles of rubble, be prepared. Don't rely on there being anything available, be it AA, CR123 or whatever.

Seriously folks, a true flashaholic is the one who at the height of an emergency says "Here's some light".

The point of the opening post was to affirm the need for BACK UP! On hand (with you at all times).

And what bugs me to no end, is people who fail to prepare for an emergency. That includes food for you lights.

We had some big floods here (Queensland, Australia) this year and my neighbour had to ration his food because he didn't have more than a few days worth. 

On the other hand, there is enough in my cupboard to keep 10 people well fed for a couple of months with the fuel and water to do so.

BE PREPARED, BE PREPARED, there will not be another warning issued.


----------



## Locoboy5150 (May 5, 2010)

Jash said:


> IF, read that again, If there is an emergency, like an earthquake that buries all the batteries under piles of rubble, be prepared. Don't rely on there being anything available, be it AA, CR123 or whatever.



I see now. Now allow me to explain my perspective. At my last count here are the AA powered lights that I currently have. I also have a 4 D cell Maglite, but it's not what I travel with because it's just too huge.

Fenix LD20 - EDC in a belt holster.
Fenix TK40 - carried in my backpack when I leave home.
Mini-Maglite - EDC in a belt holster.
Coleman Pack-Away lantern.

When I travel I always take my camera with me everywhere which uses the following items powered by AA batteries.

Nikon F-100 body
Nikon SB-23 speedlight

Here is the latest count on the number of AA Duraloop or Eneloop cells that I have and keep fully charged at all times, whether I'm at home or somewhere else on this planet in my travels.

2 in the LD20
8 in the TK40
2 in the Mini-Maglite
4 in the Pack-Away
4 in the F-100
4 in the SB-23
8 spares in my camera bag
4 spares in my pocket or backpack

Thus, assuming that I use just one of my two EDC lights at at a time, which is so far always the case, I have two fully charged AAs in the light in my hand and 34 spare AAs ready to go. If my primary EDC light, my LD20, breaks I have my Mini-Maglite with a Terralux TLE-5EX drop in LED upgrade on the other side of my belt ready for action. If both of my EDC lights fail, I have my TK40 in my backpack. If the lights in my hotel go out, I have my Pack-Away lantern.

The only battery powered thing that I travel with that is not powered by AA cells is my cell phone. I don't have world-wide coverage anyway so it doesn't get much use when I leave the US so the battery rarely runs down when I'm away from home.

I also take my Titanium Innovations M-8800 battery charger with me wherever I go on vacation. It can be powered by either 110 V AC or 12 V DC. When I'm out of the US, I always take my 220 V AC power converter.

If I go through all 34 backup AA Eneloops/Duraloops, I can go to just about any general merchandise store in the world to buy some alkaline AAs. That includes Wu Han China, where I went on vacation last year and found plenty of AA cells for sale but absolutely zero of the other battery types like 18650s, CR123As, etcetera. I specifically went through numerous stores and street vendors there looking for the typical to flashaholics but flat out unheard of amongst the general public battery cells too.

Given my set up, why would I want to add another light that uses a different battery type? How would that make me more or better prepared for an emergency? Better yet, what would you recommend that I add to my current selection of lights so that I am better prepared in your opinion? Best yet, how do I pay for those new lights and their required non-AA batteries and chargers given my limited income at this time? (Hehe, just kidding on that last one but if you're willing to donate to my collection to make me better prepared since that's extremely important to you, then by all means contact me for my mailing address. Absolutely no lights, batteries, or chargers will be refused.)

I do have currently 20 spare D cells for my Maglite in case of an emergency at home.

It sounds like you're assuming that people here in CPF that like and recommend AA lights because the batteries are readily available automatically means that they don't have lots and lots of backup AA cells ready to go in an emergency. While I cannot speak for everyone, that most certainly is not the case with me.


----------



## red02 (May 5, 2010)

My ZL H501 runs for about 100 min on high with 1 AA

10 Eneloops => $26 => 1000 mins @ 90lm
1 18650 => $20 => 240 mins @ 110lm

not to mention that I use Eneloops in my Ti-84, wall clock, remote, camera, wireless mouse, you get the idea.


----------



## Egsise (May 5, 2010)

All you need is rechargeable AA's and 18650, couple them with charger that has an option to use 12V.


----------



## march.brown (May 6, 2010)

Egsise said:


> All you need is rechargeable AA's and 18650, couple them with charger that has an option to use 12V.


Totally agree with this ... AA LSD cells plus 18650s are all that I normally use.

However , two of my 18650 torches can also use AAA cells ... I have 14 spare AAA LSD cells just in case I need them which are backups for the remote controls anyway ... I also have 11 spare AA LSDs just in case plus 4 spare 18650s.

My iTP A2 will last for 60 hours on low and 18 hours on medium , so even with only 11 spare AAs , I will have plenty of light in an emergency.

If you lose your electricity supply for a long period of time , you will no doubt go to bed early and keep warm with a glass of whisky and a hot woman ... It's almost worthwhile pulling out the main power fuse isn't it !
.


----------



## paulr (May 6, 2010)

I've heard too many horror stories about li ion cells and packs exploding to want to mess with them. NiMH AA chargers are ubiquitous, including very fast ones like 15 minute models, tiny single cell ones that plug into a USB port, etc. The Energizer 15 minute 4-cell charger uses a 12 volt power brick and you can also use an automotive cigarette lighter plug, so you can quickly recharge your Eneloops in your car if you don't have AC power available. Also, no matter how many spare batteries I have at home, I usually don't bring that many when I travel. So these days, I like 123's for flashaholic lights, and AA/AAA for travel and utility. I used to be big on AA's but these days AAA lights work very well, and lots of my other gadgets use AAA's for size reduction. There are even AA's that charge directly from USB (http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/gear/8e82/ ) though the diminished capacity and high cost makes them a bit silly. There are probably cheaper places to get them though I haven't been interested enough to look.


----------



## Ozgeardo (May 6, 2010)

JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> The way things are going with Australia Post restrictions on lithium batteries it won't surprise me if in a year or two we Down Underites won't be able to internet order cheap bulk CR123's from overseas which would then mean we would have to buy them at shops here at five to ten bucks each. That's reason enough for me to be thinking that the choosers of the AA format have their heads screwed on just right.


 
I concur Lithium & Lithium Ion's can be an issue down here but I have found that in the last 12 months that local supplies are getting better and more and more users are creating a demand. (Mind you most professional battery suppliers do not even know what they have in stock or what a 18650 etc is :sigh: ). As for Australia Post, they have put all the restrictions in place but from what I have observed there is absolutely NO enforcement. (I recieved a box of goodies this week and it even had "Lithium Ion batteries" detailed on the customs way bill! Go Figure oo: )

Whilst there is demand there will likely be supply, but I am concerned about future supply (at what price  ). I am always stockpiling.

I can understand the original intent of this thread and I always keep a adequate supply of all batts on hand...........

A couple of dozen CR123's, AA's & AAA's Lithium stored away for emergency use. (Some in BOB, some in Vehicle and a few stashed in "strategic locations" with other "important" bits and pieces)

Additionally I have dozens of each AA & AAA eneloops always charged and GTG :thumbsup:
I have 1/2 dozen RCR123's charged and GTG
and about 1/2 dozen 18500 & 18650's ready to go.

I have all manner of torches requiring different batts which means generally I have something that will suit any given situation. There is a place in my inventory for both AA/AAA and various R-CR123/18500/18650 formats.

I can not see why we so often keep over-thinking and getting into the same debate. If you prefer one or the other then fine but I would suggest that any enthusiastic "Flashaholic" would have many different form factors and various lights to use them in JMHO


----------



## andrewnewman (May 6, 2010)

Ok, so I suspect we can agree (he said hopefully) that "emergency" is contextual and we can each imagine an emergency where a particular choice in batteries is optimal.

Like most others, I have a mix of flashlights with different battery requirements. Some (RRT-0) actually take both 123 and AA format. Being from New England, the most common need for flashlights are when stuck at home during a weather event when the power goes out. As a precaution against this, I just find it cheaper and easier to stockpile CR123 batteries than AA Lithium primaries. The same lights typically also take RCR123 batteries and serve as satisfactory EDC lamps (small, bright). Most common household devices (remotes clocks etc...) hold Eneloop / Duraloops and these can be borrowed back and put in AA lights if necessary. Finally for long trips away from power sources I gravitate toward AA batteries as I may need an open ended supply and I can't recharge them easily.

Standard compliment (for instance) when going to the Great White North is a Zebralight headlamp (H501w), Zebralight EDC (SC50w) and a Fenix TK20.

When puttering about CT I currently keep a QMini-123 in my pocket, a Novatac 120P in my briefcase, a RA Clicky in my kitchen and an RRT-0 on my nightstand.

In the winter when I anticipate higher likelihood of weather-related emergencies I am vigilant about keeping some 18650s charged for my Catapult.

To each his own...


----------



## dealgrabber2002 (May 6, 2010)

@ Locoboy5150... you're the only one that I know that types out etcetera instead of etc... lol..

@ Jash

So if we have 5-10 AA lights and about 50-100 AA batteries, we are not a Flashaholic?

If that is the case, where do I turn in my flashalolic card?


----------



## Jash (May 6, 2010)

*[Post deleted - Abuse and bad language. - DM51]


The joys of bi-polar disorder. Sorry, won't happen again. 

Jash.

*


----------



## Locoboy5150 (May 6, 2010)

Yeah, blame us. 

*shrug*

Oh well...people tried their best to explain their viewpoint as did you Jash. I can't blame anyone for trying.


----------



## Jack Reacher (May 6, 2010)

[_EDIT: Deleted quote from Jash._]




Um...

I'm guessing that dealgrabber2002 had his tongue *very* firmly planted in his cheek when he wrote _If that is the case, where do I turn in my flashaholic card_?


—


----------



## Ragiska (May 6, 2010)

Jash said:


> When the earthquake hit Haiti, one of the things they needed first were flashlights. Why, because most of the ones they had (with the batteries) were buried underneath piles of rubble.



where stockpiles make NO difference either way. BUT, when relief was arriving, do you think the red cross was sending cr123's?

resupply will ALWAYS be easier when you use the MOST common format. hell, our troops in Iraq and afganistan have had to stop at the local village shop to stock up on batteries countless times when they were away from their supply chain. and you can be damn sure those shops don't carry 123's or 18650's.

i have NEVER heard anyone on this site say they don't have to stock spares at all, but rather that AA ubiquitousness makes resupply easier IF they are seperated from their spares, or they are depleted. it is a SECONDARY mode of "backup".


----------



## UpChUcK (May 6, 2010)

If you can afford it, you should have a bunch of spare cells of all sizes in stock.

I built up my supply to a minimum level. And no whenever I hit the stores, not every time though, I will pick up a pack of whatever size I may be running low on. Be it a 4-pack of Lithium AA's, 4-pack of D's, 8-pack of AAA's, 2032 coin cells, etc. Then from time to time when there is a sale, I will pick up one of those mega-packs of what ever size needs stocking. I probably have at least a month's worth of batteries. Then as I use them for whatever needs batteries, I use the oldest stuff first. You should try to organized you cells so you can easily do this.

Now, my daily use lights I pretty much use rechargeables whether it's AA, AAA or 18650. So this keeps the purchase of lithium primaries to a minimum since they are so expensive. I buy Surefire 123's and Energizer AA/AAA lithiums. These having long shelf life helps keep my usage to a minimum. Things like TV remotes, clocks, portable radios, Wii remotes, the kids toys, etc., I use my supply of alkalines for those "mundane" things.

Storage-wise, I use tool storage trays or nuts-n-bolt caddies with the divided compartments. 1 for AA, AAA, 123, 9-volt and 1 for D and C cells. Coin cells I keep in a smaller container.

My stock minimums are shown below. I usually have more but usually never go past double the below quantities.

Alkalines:
D - 25
C - 25
AA - 50
AAA - 20
9-Volt - 5

Lithium -
AA - 25
AAA - 10
CR123 - 25
Various coin/button cells - 15-20

Rechargeables (I got rid of non LSD's):
AA - 36 DuraLoops and Eneloops
AAA - 20 DuraLoops and Eneloops
AA - 8 Sanyo 2300mAh semi-LSD cells (they actually hold a charge almost as long as Eneloops)
18650 - 4 (2) UltraFire and (2) AW

Looking to get a bunch 0f NiMh D and C Titanium cells and some IMR 26500's. Oh and a solar charger.

There really is no excuse for being unprepared.


----------



## DM51 (May 6, 2010)

Jash, your post #52 above has been deleted. Personal abuse and swearing will not be tolerated here. Please moderate your style.


----------



## Jash (May 6, 2010)

Ragiska said:


> where stockpiles make NO difference either way. BUT, when relief was arriving, do you think the red cross was sending cr123's?



WTF?

Did I say/think they would send CR123's?


----------



## Ragiska (May 6, 2010)

Jash said:


> WTF?
> 
> Did I say/think they would send CR123's?


your entire premise is "have all the spares you could possibly need"

well, that is impossible. at some point, eventually, you WILL be seperated from them, or the stock WILL be depleted. THEN what do you do?? 

from what I can tell, you are simply annoyed that those "ignorant AA" people are simply better planned and prepared than you are by having triple contingency vs your single contingency.


----------



## RedForest UK (May 6, 2010)

I see it quite simply. Most lights either run on AA's for which there are a few options available, or 18650's and cr123's. I've split these into two basic 'types'.

*Type 1:*

*18650:*

+ Very high energy density, so high performance
+ Rechargeable, so inexpensive
- Very hard to come by
- Li-ion maintenance not always practical

*CR123s:*

+ High energy density
- Expensive
- Not common or interchangeable

*Type 2:*

*AAs:

Ni-MH LSD:*

+ Cheaper
+ Rechargeable
+ Interchangeable
+ Reasonably common
+ Safe and easy to use and maintain
- Not as high energy density as Lithium cells

*Alkalines*

+ Cheaper
+ Readily available anywhere
- Very low energy density/performance
- Can leak/unreliable

So far in my mind both types of light have two basic ways of running either rechargeable or disposable if needs be. I agree that the lithium one to one wins in performance on both fronts. While the AA format wins on both fronts for convenience/safety, availability and in many situations economy as well, although for some that isn't always strictly true. 

Clearly for some people or in certain situations one type of light will be preferable, and for others or in another situation the other one maybe. Although if you introduce the *Energizer disposable lithium* into the equation then AA's do start to look even stonger due to a high performance, reasonable value, disposable option with similar energy density to a cr123a coming into play as well. 

As flashaholics, most of us have a ready supply of both 'types' of light, and so are lucky enough to be able to pick and choose depending on the situation in hand. Although I would like to point out that having both 'types' is certainly not 'necessary' to being a flashaholic, and certainly not for being well prepared in general. 

If I had to choose one 'type' permanently or for any extended period I would go for the AA option every time due to costs, availability, reliability and ease of maintanence. Although as a flashaholic I do also see the strong merits of lithium or li-ion powered lights as well just to squeeze out that extra performance that everyone likes to have when they are interested in something that is at the very cutting edge of technology. 

The big question to me is at what point does absolute top performance become overtaken by the needs that I mentioned above? 

I would guess that really depends just how many cells you have. For me personally, any trip above 5 days and I'm back to AA's for my primary power supply, but at home I admit I do prefer to use my Li-ion lights.


----------



## Locoboy5150 (May 6, 2010)

dealgrabber2002 said:


> @ Locoboy5150... you're the only one that I know that types out etcetera instead of etc... lol..



Hehe, that's an old habit from one of my English teachers back in middle school. Abbreviations were a no-no in formal papers turned in to her.

It's funny that the subject of flashlights being buried in the Haiti earthquake was mentioned. Since two of my flashlights are carried on my belt literally every single day, if they were buried it wouldn't matter at all to me because I would be buried right with them so they wouldn't be lost!  It's just one more reason to have EDC lights.


----------



## Font size (May 7, 2010)

*Re: 14500*

I use bright lights that run on 14500s for efficiency, and can use the common cells in my TV remotes as a back up.


Jay R said:


> having a light that takes the most common battery type in the world..


----------



## broadgage (May 7, 2010)

For EDC, both AA and 123 lithiums have there merits, as posted by many others.
For a long term ermergency in ones home, or perhaps in a vehicle, then I believe that D cells should be used despite being considered old fashioned.
Remember that a D cell contains about 6 or 7 times the energy of an AA for about twice the price.
Since a cell is more efficient when discharged slowly, a D cell may give 10 times the run time of AA.
Two D cells will run a 2.5 volt, 0.5 amp halogen bulb for about 24 hours, a pair of AA s would only give about 2.5 hours.

My emergency kit at work contains 3 cheap flashlights, each for 2 D cells, a pack of 50 cells and some spare bulbs. 
I also keep a 2D maglight, a 6D maglight, and several cheapo 4D flourescent lanterns.
In addition I would have my EDC of a couple of mini-mags with LED drop ins and a few dozen AA cells.


----------



## UpChUcK (May 7, 2010)

Yeah, the reason I keep D and C cells are to run my lanterns and MagLEDs (new Rebels). I have 1 fluorescent lantern that is rechargeable and on that runs on 4D. 2 LED lanterns that run on 3C/4C and my other LED lanterns use 2-4xAA cells. When I use them (3 blackouts), I use them on low settings to maximize runtime which the big cells offer. Otherwise I'd stick tot the smaller AA, AAA and 123 cells and even then use the high setting sparingly.

I emergency power situations, I would burn though my rechargeables first, then lithium primaries and lastly the alkaline AA/AAA. D and C cells would get use from the start with my lanterns.

For my EDC lights, I like using rechargeable cells just for cost saving alone. My oft used lights are the JetBeam RRT-0, ITP/Maratac AAA, Nitecore D20, EagleTac T20C2 MkII and Quark Mini123. I still need to get IMR 123 for my Mini123 but for now I mainly use low or med with only occasional high setting use to save on buying expensive 123 cells often. I wish RCR123 had more mAh but for an EDC role, even with the lower capacity of the RCR, recharging shouldn't be too much of a hassle if I had at least a couple cells on hand to rotate.

If I do get separated form my stockpile of cells, I have a few of each in AA, AAA and 123 that may last a week or 2 that I carry in my EDC backpack. But actually on my person I only carry 1xAAA and whatever is in my Mini123. Good for only a day or 2 and if I use mostly the low level, I can stretch it out to a week+.

So like many of you I have different "tiers". I'm not saying my way is right and yours is wrong. I'd say each of our systems is right... for each of us. Just the fact that we *HAVE* a plan and *HAVE* prepared will put us in better standing when that situation arises. So I am reading each of your "systems" and trying to think of ways I can improve mine buy using pieces of yours. That is what CPF is all about after all.


----------



## Locoboy5150 (May 7, 2010)

UpChUcK said:


> So like many of you I have different "tiers". I'm not saying my way is right and yours is wrong. I'd say each of our systems is right... for each of us. Just the fact that we *HAVE* a plan and *HAVE* prepared will put us in better standing when that situation arises. So I am reading each of your "systems" and trying to think of ways I can improve mine buy using pieces of yours. That is what CPF is all about after all.



Superbly stated in my opinion and I've been doing the exact same thing and taking notes on what others have done in this thread so I can improve my system as well. :thumbsup: I think that message from the OP got lost, if that was his original intent. I asked for input but I think that it was overlooked.


----------



## Font size (May 7, 2010)

*Re: High Tech*




broadgage said:


> that D cells should be used despite being considered old fashioned.


I don't know what issue of "Popular Mechanics," is giving you that information.







> Two D cells will run.. about 24 hours, a pair of AA s would only give about 2.5 hours.


Now a days a modern flashlight with a single AA, will run over twenty hours. That would be forty hours (40), if you were to use two cells.


> my EDC of a couple of mini-mags with LED drop ins and a few dozen AA cells.


Looks like time for a more efficient upgrade.


----------



## etc (May 7, 2010)

andrewnewman said:


> +1 !!!
> 
> I have always felt that this particular justification for choosing AA battery formats to be pretty weak.
> 
> The only (contrived) justification I could come up for to choose AA batteries based upon availability would be if I decided to hike the Appalachian trail. Here I would have a weight limitation on how many batteries I could carry and I'd be required to restock at those little supplies stores at towns the trail crosses. Pretty sure my only choice would be AA alkalines.



In that situation, I would have my Garmin GPS with me, that runs on 2xAA, L91 are best. So it's nice to use a common cell.

I would probably take a 3xAA lite with Malkoff M60LL or a SF 9P with M60LL in it, and some 123 cells with me. When the 123s run out, you can stick 2xAA in it for even longer runtime.

Back on subject, I haven't found much use for D cells anymore. Maybe for radios. I have nice M*gs laying not used. I find the SF P60 format so much more useful.


----------



## core (May 9, 2010)

While I'm all for having multiple types around, I have to say I'm in the AA camp primarily because of what "emergency" I expect.

How many earthquakes have I been in? Zero, but hey we don't get many in Iowa.
Nuclear strikes? Zero.
Massive floods? One in '93, but the _entire_ city was not flooded. Business as usual for 90% of the stores in the rest of the city.
Tornadoes do not generally demolish entire cities either.

Now as me how many times I've had "personal emergencies" where I've been without power and that would be plenty. I've "forgotten" to pay the bill. Neighbor had a fire, and the fire department clipped the power lines. Ice storms. Wind storms.

In all previous cases, and in 99% of the anticipated cases, the corner store a block away would have been available if I needed it.

The availability of chargers is a big one for me as well. They _may_ make fold-up solar chargers for Li Ions but if they do they sure aren't common. And I've got more 12V AA chargers than I can count. Those types of things are available for any truck stop if you need them same-day. 

Interchangeability has been discussed. Having a huge stockpile of CR123's isn't going to power my ham radio, weather radio, police scanner, charge my cell phone (if I had one), games for the kids (if I was a parent), nor any of the other goodies you might want/need in an extended outage situation.

AAs can easily be traded for other goods or scavenged if you really want to get into the nutso SHTF scenarios.

If you've got a huge stockpile of anything and can't use it unless that 0.0001% chance even happens, then it is largely waste. I doubt I could ever use up a large stockpile of 123's with normal usage.

You wouldn't own a generator that runs on nitromethane or methanol would you?


----------



## carrot (May 9, 2010)

andrewnewman said:


> The only (contrived) justification I could come up for to choose AA batteries based upon availability would be if I decided to hike the Appalachian trail. Here I would have a weight limitation on how many batteries I could carry and I'd be required to restock at those little supplies stores at towns the trail crosses. Pretty sure my only choice would be AA alkalines.


I'm planning a Thru and I certainly am not giving up my CR123s! Many hikers choose to have some supplies shipped to them, and seeing how CR123s pack more power for the size and weight compared to commonly available alkalines it makes sense to me to use CR123 instead. Of course I'm not an idiot, and I'll have an AA-compatible light... my Saint...


----------



## Jash (May 10, 2010)

Ragiska said:


> well, that is impossible. at some point, eventually, you WILL be seperated from them, or the stock WILL be depleted. THEN what do you do??
> 
> from what I can tell, you are simply annoyed that those "ignorant AA" people are simply better planned and prepared than you are by having triple contingency vs your single contingency.





The whole point of having 'back up' is to have it with you, or at the least very near you (in your man-bag).

I carry 4 charged eneloops for my mini AA that's on my keychain and 4 cr123 primaries for my EX10 SP that lives in my pocket. My man-bag goes everywhere I do (it's my office) and if it doesn't, my wifes bag has two cr123 primaries in it and a couple of AA's.

You clearly don't undrstand the whole point of this thread.

For the record, I have *one* light in my bug out bag and guess what, it's a TK20. Aren't they AA powered?

Your post is null and void.


----------



## Ragiska (May 10, 2010)

Jash said:


> The whole point of having 'back up' is to have it with you, or at the least very near you (in your man-bag).
> 
> I carry 4 charged eneloops for my mini AA that's on my keychain and 4 cr123 primaries for my EX10 SP that lives in my pocket. My man-bag goes everywhere I do (it's my office) and if it doesn't, my wifes bag has two cr123 primaries in it and a couple of AA's.
> 
> ...




so as you describe it, really the entire point of this thread is to convince us that we ALL should carry man bags like YOU do, and we should plan our EDC around YOUR needs and YOUR lifestyle??

amazing, simply amazing :laughing:

and i'm pretty sure i understand the point of this thread just fine. your opening post was a direct attack on anyone who carries AA lights in part because it gives them a triple contingency vs your single contingency, and you go on to berate anyone who does not subscribe YOUR *opinion* on EDC style as the "one true solution".


----------



## Egsise (May 10, 2010)

core said:


> Interchangeability has been discussed. Having a huge stockpile of CR123's isn't going to power my ham radio, weather radio, police scanner, charge my cell phone (if I had one), games for the kids (if I was a parent), nor any of the other goodies you might want/need in an extended outage situation.


Yaesu FT-817, 12V or 8xAA powered HF+2m+70cm ham radio, just gotta love that little thing. :thumbsup:


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (May 10, 2010)

Jash said:


> The whole point of having 'back up' is to have it with you, or at the least very near you (in your man-bag).
> 
> I carry 4 charged eneloops for my mini AA that's on my keychain and 4 cr123 primaries for my EX10 SP that lives in my pocket. My man-bag goes everywhere I do (it's my office) and if it doesn't, my wifes bag has two cr123 primaries in it and a couple of AA's.


would not work for me. I would not be seen dead carrying any sort of bag other than the one I was born with. A man has pockets and batteries don't go in mine.

As for what my wife carries in her bag, well that would be no help to me since I try not to go anywhere that my wife goes so I'll almost never be anywhere near her bag except at home whence the point would likely be moot.

Anyway, what's the big deal, life without a torch is not really that hard.


----------



## paulr (May 10, 2010)

carrot said:


> I'm planning a Thru and I certainly am not giving up my CR123s! Many hikers choose to have some supplies shipped to them, and seeing how CR123s pack more power for the size and weight compared to commonly available alkalines it makes sense to me to use CR123 instead. Of course I'm not an idiot, and I'll have an AA-compatible light... my Saint...



An L91 lithium AA has about the same weight, volume, and energy capacity as a 123. The shape is different of course. I know you've got some really nice 123 lights and if you want to bring them, then go for it; if other things were equal though, I could imagine using an AA light with L91's, so that I could fall back on alkalines if necessary.


----------



## march.brown (May 10, 2010)

JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> would not work for me. I would not be seen dead carrying any sort of bag other than the one I was born with. A man has pockets and batteries don't go in mine.
> 
> As for what my wife carries in her bag, well that would be no help to me since I try not to go anywhere that my wife goes so I'll almost never be anywhere near her bag except at home whence the point would likely be moot.
> 
> Anyway, what's the big deal, life without a torch is not really that hard.


 G'Day JD ... Where do you carry your mobile phone , whisky flask , camera and binoculars (etc.) when you are on walkabout ?

I use a man-bag when on holiday where nobody knows me ... Normally I wear jackets or fishing waistcoats with lots of pockets but a camera (with a decent zoom lens) and small (8X20) binoculars don't fit easily , hence the man-bag when on holidays etc ... I tried attatching these items to a belt but you just end up looking like a pregnant possum , so that idea was abandoned.

I always carry a small (iTP A2) torch with me as EDC and a single spare AA LSD battery ... Wouldn't really like to be without a small torch in my pocket though it *is* possible to manage without one because there is always a small (CR2032 powered) torch on each keyring.

You say "I try not to go anywhere that my Wife goes" ... I was like that with my first couple of Wives , but someone has to tell them that their prospective purchases are rubbish ... The salespersons in the shop won't do it ... So now I have to be there in order to save my money , so that it can be invested wisely on Malt Whisky and other absolute essentials. 

"Tar on yer cobblers" as they say here in the original (Old) South Wales.
.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland (May 10, 2010)

*Re: garbled text?*



JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> Anyway, what's the big deal, life without a torch is not really that hard.


Is anyone else's browser acting strange? In my browser, JaguarDave's message appear all garbled: It appears to state that life without a torch is not really that hard.


----------



## Woods Walker (May 10, 2010)

I use LSD NiMH so it's mostly AA for me. My GPS, headlamp, radio etc uses AA and that's kinda nice when backpacking. On low my flashlight/headlamp can run a looooooooooooong time even with AA. But I have CR123 lights and like them too.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (May 10, 2010)

*Re: garbled text?*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Is anyone else's browser acting strange? In my browser, JaguarDave's message appear all garbled: It appears to state that life without a torch is not really that hard.



Yes, definitely a mistype. 

Bill


----------



## Jack Reacher (May 10, 2010)

JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> ..... I would not be seen dead carrying any sort of bag other than the one I was born with.



Hey there Dave...

I'm *still* laughing at this mate! Gotta be the funniest thing I've read on here for yonks! Glad to see you're still giving this lot the good oil.

— Jack.


----------



## UpChUcK (May 10, 2010)

Woods Walker said:


> I use LSD NiMH so it's mostly AA for me. My GPS, headlamp, radio etc uses AA and that's kinda nice when backpacking. On low my flashlight/headlamp can run a looooooooooooong time even with AA. But I have CR123 lights and like them too.



This brings up a good point too. Some might have other devices that use AA like radios, GPS's, cell phone chargers, etc. In that case, use of strictly AA rechargeables, lithium primaries and/or alkalines makes perfect sense to me. AT least to the 123 vs. AA argument.


----------



## RedForest UK (May 10, 2010)

While I don't entirely agree with the op's sentiment that more is always better, I would like to point out that he does have a point about the meaning of his original post, he wasn't saying that AA's were inferior to CR123's only that it was better to have both. 

Maybe he has a point, though imo if you want to talk like that it'd be better to always lug a solar panal or a mini generator with you everywhere.. Sometimes it's just down to practicality of what you can or are willing to carry with you, without wanting to look like a tit


----------



## jcw122 (May 10, 2010)

I use NiHM AAs for a few reasons over anything else:

1) I don't like throwing away batteries, hence why I don't use Lithium primaries
2) I'm not comfortable with the safety limitations of Li-Ion, as in, I want to be able to throw my batteries in a charger and not worry about them even one bit
3) I can use them in other devices if I have the need, like my flash units for my camera or a portable desktop lamp
4) My low-discharge NiHMs can stay charged for a long time, so again, no need for primaries
5) It's a lot cheaper than using primaries and I don't have to buy anything new


----------



## UpChUcK (May 10, 2010)

I agree. I think versatility is important. It is like investing your money, do you put it all on one stock or is your portfolio diverisied. I like to cover as many bases as reasonably possible. Do I want to lug D-cells around in my EDC kit? Answer = No. But having AA, AAA and 123 makes sense to me which what I do. But I also see nothing "wrong" with others' decisions to stick to AA only or 123 only.


----------



## paulr (May 10, 2010)

UpChUcK said:


> This brings up a good point too. Some might have other devices that use AA like radios, GPS's, cell phone chargers, etc. In that case, use of strictly AA rechargeables, lithium primaries and/or alkalines makes perfect sense to me. AT least to the 123 vs. AA argument.



I used to want to standardize on AA's that way, but I find it's somewhat possible to do the same with AAA's resulting in smaller gear. The stuff I travel with--Fenix LD01 and Arc AAA flashlights, Garmin Geko GPS, and Sansa M260 music player all use AAA's. I didn't get around to making an AAA pack for my cellular phone. My AA devices include Zebralight H50 headlamp and Canon A570 digicam. I use an Eneloop in the H50 which runs it a heck of a long time, but could use an AAA in it with an adapter. The A570 is really happiest with lithium primaries (NiMH voltage is too low), so I have a spare pair in the camera pouch, but they also are very long lasting.


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (May 10, 2010)

march.brown said:


> G'Day JD ... Where do you carry your mobile phone , whisky flask , camera and binoculars (etc.) when you are on walkabout ?


ah well, see when I'm on walkabout I don't need to see any further than I can shoot which is about three hundred and fifty yards so I don't need noculars. Any other time I'm on walkabout but not shooting I'm in my ute so I have access to a box not a bag. I reckon I'd look pretty funny walking around in my dress overalls carrying some sort of bag.



march.brown said:


> You say "I try not to go anywhere that my Wife goes" ... I was like that with my first couple of Wives , but someone has to tell them that their prospective purchases are rubbish ... The salespersons in the shop won't do it ... So now I have to be there in order to save my money , so that it can be invested wisely on Malt Whisky and other absolute essentials.


well, I've not had anymore than one wife. I've had her a very long time and I'm pretty sure the main reason I've had her a very long time is that I try to stay out of her way during the daylight hours and for most of the night as well. I even wave her off to holidays on her own. Can't be too careful, familiarity breeds contempt you know.

As for stopping her making purchases, no way, she's the one that supplies the dough in this relationship so I'm happy for her to buy as many shoes and handgbags as she likes as long as she continues to dole me out enough to spend on my jaguars and the like.


----------



## old4570 (May 11, 2010)

Well , I like multi battery lights ..

Im set up for AAA-AA-CR123A-RCR123A-14500-17670-18650 and anything else I can jerry rig to work .. 

One of the most versatile lights is my L2i + 3 mode low voltage pill . It will run AAA all the way up to 18650 .


----------



## Jash (May 11, 2010)

Ragiska said:


> so as you describe it, really the entire point of this thread is to convince us that we ALL should carry man bags like YOU do, and we should plan our EDC around YOUR needs and YOUR lifestyle??
> 
> amazing, simply amazing :laughing:
> 
> and i'm pretty sure i understand the point of this thread just fine. your opening post was a direct attack on anyone who carries AA lights in part because it gives them a triple contingency vs your single contingency, and you go on to berate anyone who does not subscribe YOUR *opinion* on EDC style as the "one true solution".




I carry a man-bag for my business (as previously mentioned). 
You don't have to. There are many other ways to carry things with you. Some people carry things on their head. 

I EDC both AA and CR123 (as previsouly mentioned) so I've nothing against either. I prefer to use my EX10 for work because it is fatter and easier for my hands to hold. I have a Quark mini AA on my keychain because it is the light I want with me ALL the time. When I go out my man-bag doesn't go with me but my keys do, and one extra eneloop in the coin pocket of my jeans.

I do not understand your point of attack on any of my posts as I have never said anything against AA's or not carrying a man-bag.

Again, your post is null and void.

If you think I've got an agenda against AA lights, view my signature for the list of lights I own.


----------



## march.brown (May 11, 2010)

JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> I reckon I'd look pretty funny walking around in my dress overalls carrying some sort of bag.


 You would be OK as long as you didn't stand with one hand on your hip whilst swinging your bag ... Still it could be another source of income to spend on your Jags ... You could even get a nice early black SS (Swallow Sidecars , pre-Jaguar) ... Shame that WW2 made them change the name to Jaguar.
.


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (May 11, 2010)

SS90, the most beautiful "jaguar" ever made and definately proves that black can be more colourful than any other colour.


----------



## UpChUcK (May 11, 2010)

Jash said:


> I carry a man-bag for my business (as previously mentioned).
> You don't have to. There are many other ways to carry things with you. Some people carry things on their head.
> 
> I EDC both AA and CR123 (as previsouly mentioned) so I've nothing against either. I prefer to use my EX10 for work because it is fatter and easier for my hands to hold. I have a Quark mini AA on my keychain because it is the light I want with me ALL the time. When I go out my man-bag doesn't go with me but my keys do, and one extra eneloop in the coin pocket of my jeans.
> ...



Don't worry about it Jash. Your 1st post came on strong and your language was a little harsh but you've since fixed that (I hope).

When I first read your OP, I thought you were bashing the carry of AA lights for emergencies too. But I reread it and your other posts and have come to the conclusion that you are an advocate of multi-cell systems and are just promoting enthusiastically the the need to have adequate numbers of spare batteries for emergency situations, which I totally agree with. 

Let's just carry on and discuss. :grouphug:


----------



## UpChUcK (May 11, 2010)

paulr said:


> I used to want to standardize on AA's that way, but I find it's somewhat possible to do the same with AAA's resulting in smaller gear. The stuff I travel with--Fenix LD01 and Arc AAA flashlights, Garmin Geko GPS, and Sansa M260 music player all use AAA's. I didn't get around to making an AAA pack for my cellular phone. My AA devices include Zebralight H50 headlamp and Canon A570 digicam. I use an Eneloop in the H50 which runs it a heck of a long time, but could use an AAA in it with an adapter. The A570 is really happiest with lithium primaries (NiMH voltage is too low), so I have a spare pair in the camera pouch, but they also are very long lasting.



I've thought about sticking to a one-cell system. I was leaning towards AA because of their readily available nature. Just going to the various stores around me AA's availability dwarfs 123 by 500 to 1. I usually see 1-5 pairs on the pegs and there is a plethora of 2-packs, 4-packs, 8-packs, 12-packs, 24-packs and 48-packs of AA alkalines. Even just AA lithiums outnumber the 123's by at least 10 to 1. Heck, there are even more coin cells available as well as C and D cells.

But I like my 123 powered EDC lights (Quark Mini123, JetBeam RRT-0). The output is simply amazing and I stock the 123 cells when I can and I am slowly building my supply. But to be honest, I mostly use the low and medium for the majority of the tasks I have. And in emergency situations, I would do the same thing. My last 3 power outages have proven that. So the energy density on 123 for runtimes is nice but the higher output afforded by 123's is not a factor in my decision really, at least for the emergency role.

As far as AA's, I stockpile those, I have a big stockpile and it is really much easier to stockpile since AA's are so readily available and cheap. Plus they go on sale a lot, which is when I try to pick up the lithium primaries. I also think it'll be easier to find/scavenge in the SHTF situations when you are reduced to looting and pillaging to survive. I'd say every home has at least a couple packs of AA's inside. I don't condone breaking and entering but in TEOTWAWKI scenario that we all prepare for, I's think AA's would be easier to "find". You'd find C and D cells too because most of the world are not flashaholics. So having at least 1 light in your collection that takes C and D makes sense. I just might not take a C/D light w/ me as I "bug out".

And AAA's and the lights that use a single one of them are just cool! The output of a modern 1xAAA LED light is just amazing for a light so small. That is why I EDC an ITP A3 EOS. Having a backup that is so small and unobtrusive with that much output is just a no-brainer for me. I put my A3 in my pocket clipped and forget it's even there it is so light and small. Plus you'd likely find AAA's scavenging too because who'd want these tiny cells? 

Oops, starting to ramble on...


----------



## paulr (May 11, 2010)

The 2aaa Preon is almost as small in volume (1.2 cubic inches instead of 1.15) as the 123 quark mini, though its performance is not quite as good. Interestingly, the mini-AA is approx the same volume as the 123, though its max output is substantially lower. Some folks like to use 14500 li ion cells in the mini-AA for tremendous output. I'm somewhat against that but that's just me. You can also scrounge 3V AA-sized lithium primaries from CR-V3 camera batteries. So you could run your mini-AA on 3v or 3.6v cells when convenient to do so and on regular AA's in a pinch.


----------



## Per-Sev (May 11, 2010)

I was reminded once what the importance was to carry a light with you at all times when I was in a store in the middle of the day a tornado siren went off and then all the power went out and it was to dark to see your hand in front of your face so I reached down and went for my light and no light the one day I forgot to put it in my pocket I needed it so everyone was pulling out there cell phones and using them to find the basement the power was only out a few hours but all the store had was a cheap D cell flashlight that put out enough light so you could see where to sit down. Now I make sure I put my light and a 4 pack of AA lithiums in my pocket the batteries are in a carry case that keeps them separated so they are safe to carry with me. My light on low should be good for a minimum of 24 hours so even if it pitch black I will be good for 2 to 4 days depending on use so all those stock piled batteries at home would have been of no use at that time so in a true emergency what you have in your pocket maybe all you will have at that moment and tornado season is here already. I might point out that when I left the house it was clear blue sky's so the weather changed in about one hour and I was in the store and did not know till it was to late.


----------



## PCC (May 15, 2010)

Well, there's always this approach:

My multi-battery system. The Fulton MX-991/U has a generous battery compartment and a big long spring. I made a few adapters and now it can take 2D (no adapters used), 2C (big tube and end plug to make up the difference), 2 unprotected 18650 Li-Ion (big tube and intermediate tube), and 2 AA cells (all adapter pieces assembled together). The PR flange LED bulb is the Nite-Ize 3-watt, rated from 2 to 6 cells (3V to 9V), with a dimmer Nite-Ize PR flange bulb in the tail cap in case I think it's going to be a long haul. The 3-watt draws about 350mA from 2.4V and the dimmer one draws 150mA. I originally envisioned this system being able to use 3 CR123a cells, too, but that didn't work out without having a separate piece for that configuration. I can do 2 CR123a with an aluminum spacer, though.

Here is the entire system laid out for you to see:





The round piece in the middle is the spacer that makes up the difference between the length of AA/C cells and D cells. The adapter tubes required for each battery type is sitting next to the cells that fit inside of it.

Here are the two larger diameter sleeves inside of the Fulton with two unprotected 18650 cells. The tailcap screws down all the way in this configuration and no additional adapters are needed to use this.





Here is the adapter completely assembled with a pair of AA cells installed in it.









I made it so that the negative contact cannot make contact with the positive terminal inside of the Fulton just in case my kids decide to put the batteries in backwards or something.


----------

