# Surefire Price Increase



## Gadgetman7 (Aug 24, 2014)

A dealer is saying that Surefire prices will increase by at least 30% on September 1st. Has anyone else heard about an increase?


----------



## kj2 (Aug 24, 2014)

Haven't heard of that. But if it happens, I wonder how fast sales-numbers will drop


----------



## mcnair55 (Aug 24, 2014)

30% increase is like shooting yourself in the foot,sounds like the 2+2=5 brigade are out in force or someone put a nought on the real idea of a 3% increase imo.To be honest it does not bother me as i would never pay there prices at present let alone with any increase.


----------



## kj2 (Aug 24, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> ... To be honest it does not bother me as i would never pay their prices at present let alone with any increase.


Me neither, although I'm interested in their new P1R Peacekeeper. First 18650 Surefire light


----------



## Cerealand (Aug 24, 2014)

Ouch!


----------



## Gadgetman7 (Aug 24, 2014)

I'm trying to find out if this is just one dealer. I've been thinking about the P1R as well. Now I may not be able to afford it.


----------



## Timothybil (Aug 24, 2014)

LA Police Gear just emailed an ad saying the increase starts Sept. 1st. They don't give a percentage, but they did show the new price on a couple of lights. G2X goes from $49 to $63, and 6PXD goes from $74.20 to $95.40. That looks pretty close to 30% to me, and even more for the G2X. Ouch!

Edit:
I went back and looked closer at the ad. The 2211 wrist light goes from $299.99 to $445. That's 50%, give or take a point. I went and looked at the MSRP on the Surefire website, and it looks to me like maybe Surefire isn't so much raising their prices as cutting the dealer discount. For example, the current MSRP on the 2211 is $495. Allowing a dealer to sell it for 1/3 less doesn't make a lot of sense, as it gives the impression of over-pricing by Surefire. The same with the P2XD, with a MSRP of $165 and currently selling at LAPG for $104.

Oh well, about all we can do is sit back and watch what happens, unless one had some discretionary funds immediately available.


----------



## Str8stroke (Aug 24, 2014)

Wow, Bummer, Guess I need to pull the trigger on the P1R. Been waiting but no reason to wait now. One good thing is that it may help hold the prices for the Used market? Also it will likely lead to lower sales. Therefore helping hold the values??? So, I guess its not all bad news.


----------



## EricSF (Aug 24, 2014)

If Surefire is raising prices that much in this economy, with as much competition as there is, their business must be really bad and they want to try to make it up on margin instead of volume. Very interesting move, or very stupid, time will tell.


----------



## ffhounddog (Aug 24, 2014)

I know I am not the best to talk about it but other than LE and military contracts surefire has been barely holding on. I tried to get my Z2 combatlight repaired and they sent me a new 6PX. I like modularity and if I wanted a 6PX I would have bought one, but with streamlight taking more Firefighter and EMS contracts at the federal level and the rise of maglite again it will get harder for them to keep a profit. Also xeon lights are still better than LED in smoky environments. My last deployment was in 2010 and we got pelican lights due to AA capadability. I like surefire but I do not search for them first unless I need another 952V for one of my M4's.


----------



## Timothybil (Aug 24, 2014)

There is another side to this as well. I am sure Surefire has some 'open buy' contracts with entities like the DOD, where affiliated units can purchase with a PO or credit card, rather than go through the hassle of soliciting proposals, etc. If Surefire changes their MSRP price in any major way, those contracts go up for re-bit, which I know from experience is a PITA. But if the contract language says they pay the same price as the maximum dealer discount from MSRP... Lower the dealer discount and the bottom line improves and none of those juicy contracts gets triggered to go out for bid.


----------



## 880arm (Aug 24, 2014)

EricSF said:


> If Surefire is raising prices that much in this economy, with as much competition as there is, their business must be really bad and they want to try to make it up on margin instead of volume. Very interesting move, or very stupid, time will tell.



You might be right but from the sounds of things so far it appears SureFire may be raising the Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) which only affects the retail prices of the lights. This would increases profit margins for the retailers but, by itself, does nothing immediate for SureFire's bottom line. If anything, it may suffer a little bit. Longer term, the higher margins would make their products more attractive to a wider base of retailers and increase their footprint in the market. Whether this will ultimately lead to increased sales will depend upon whether or not people will pay the higher retail.

However, as others have mentioned, contract sales are SureFire's bread and butter and have a whole different dynamic.


----------



## ike1985 (Aug 25, 2014)

inflation must be some part of their decision, maybe not thirty percent but a decent portion of it. When every part of the process of the production of goods is heavily taxed and regulated and the state controls the currency it's no surprise why prices continually rise and never go down again. I would not be surprised if new regulations makeup at least 5% of the increase. Firms are forced to submit to these regs or face extinction, they are not going to eat the cost, they will pass it on to consumers in the form of higher prices. 

Sure there may be sales here and there, but the long term trend is always that prices rise. You can rest assured that a currency-monopolistic state will not stop the printing presses. How would they pay for state expansion, war, the drug war, the police state, the welfare state, etc? If people who supported the drug war all of a sudden got a bill for it, they would magically find it in their heart to love those hippies next door. But instead the cost of these state programs is hidden from them through the printing presses, which is essentially theft since more money in circulation steals buying power from savers. It's why the FRN has lost nearly 100% of it's value and why bread and milk are no longer $0.05. It's why no one saves money and why massive bubbles emerge and pop because markets are inflated(ex 2008 real estate) Why save when your dollar are consistently losing value, why not spend and put that value into tangible things, gold, silver, investments that earn more than inflation or Bitcoin? Printing is why many people have no savings. 

All monopolistic state currencies in the world are constantly losing value, you may hear on the radio that the dollar is up against the euro, but what they don't tell you is that they are all in a free fall scenario. In other words, they are all falling, one just rose slightly in relation to the other while they are all on their way to being worthless.

Legitimate market forces can also play a role on prices. There may be a shortage of certain materials causing surefire to have to pay a higher price to obtain them. Or people may be buying up tons of surefire lights as of late, which is probable given the uptick in firearms sales. Lights are often the first accessory added to a firearm. As demand for surefire lights rises and supply remains constant or decreases(Surefire factory is running max output or have exceeded raw materials supply), the price rises to ensure a supply to those who are willing to pay more(who want it more). Many call this price gouging, it is merely a market supply control mechanism and is devoid of notions of "right and wrong" since the transaction is entirely voluntary.

As others have posted as well, state contracts may have something to do with this. When you are spending someone else's money, it isn't a big deal to spend $1000 on a hammer. I'm not sure if these new prices apply to the state as well, but it is common for people selling to goods/services to the state to artificially inflate their prices given that the state is not subject to market forces since it prints and involuntarily takes money at gunpoint to fund itself as opposed to market firms who must voluntarily provide a product or service that people want in order to obtain funds. The state can also create shortages, just look at the ammunition market.


----------



## cland72 (Aug 25, 2014)

deleted


----------



## MatthewSB (Aug 25, 2014)

I also got the email from LAPG as well.

I'm going to buy a spare EB1T because I love mine so much, a spare G2X just because they're cheap and effective, and a 3 cell Fury I've been wanting.

If prices do go up, and stay there, it will be several years before I buy another...


----------



## ike1985 (Aug 25, 2014)

Isn't the appeal of surefire lights durability and the fact that they use dual springs in weapon lights? Does anyone else use a spring in front of and behind the battery on flashlights?


----------



## ElectronGuru (Aug 25, 2014)

880arm said:


> You might be right but from the sounds of things so far it appears SureFire may be raising the Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) which only affects the retail prices of the lights. This would increases profit margins for the retailers but, by itself, does nothing immediate for SureFire's bottom line. If anything, it may suffer a little bit. Longer term, the higher margins would make their products more attractive to a wider base of retailers and increase their footprint in the market.



A few years back, SF lowered retail prices by lowering the MAP. It gave consumers a discount and lowered dealer margins so far, many dealers closed their SF sections completely (many SF displays shelves were showing up on Craigslist and eBay). I don't recall the amount, but this appears to undo that. 

Perhaps they thought it would help with online pricing only to realize brick and mortar is to important to loose. The main question is why they took so long to change back. Whatever the reasoning, the pattern over the last few years is of someone inexperienced being put in charge.


----------



## leon2245 (Aug 25, 2014)

Yeah go for it. I say charge as much as they're willing to pay, so long as their market forecasts etc. predict more profit even if fewer people buy.

I just think is funny coming so quickly after putting their stuff in more big box stores. I've seen the same few sf's collecting dust in a walmart glass case all year- maybe once they increase the price even further beyond the rayovacs & mags, the right walmart customer will perceive their value as being higher, enough to buy.


----------



## Str8stroke (Aug 25, 2014)

ElectronGuru said:


> A few years back, SF lowered retail prices by lowering the MAP. It gave consumers a discount and lowered dealer margins so far, many dealers closed their SF sections completely (many SF displays shelves were showing up on Craigslist and eBay). I don't recall the amount, but this appears to undo that.
> 
> Perhaps they thought it would help with online pricing only to realize brick and mortar is to important to loose. The main question is why they took so long to change back. Whatever the reasoning, the pattern over the last few years is of someone inexperienced being put in charge.




Interesting comment. Makes me wonder if the opposite could happen. Exhibit A: Prices too high, sales don't keep up with new releases? Therefore leading dealers drop the SF line? Know what I mean? I have noticed the one of my local SF dealers is starting to carry several other lines of lights. They claim the Nebo & Streamlight is their best seller (to the general public). 

Oh, a footnote, I would love to obtain a display case for a reasonable price.


----------



## cland72 (Aug 25, 2014)

Cabelas dropped Surefire a couple of years ago (I'm kicking myself for not buying all the E2E-HA they had for $50), and Bass Pro only carries the G2X, 6PX, and Fury (at prices at or more than 50% higher than what you typically find online). Alternately, both stores carry a ton of different Streamlight products.

IMO, Surefire is going to find itself on the endangered list here pretty soon. Only 5 models have an MSRP of under $100 (and I'm even including the G2 and 6P), their brick and mortar presence is almost non-existent, and the war in the middle east is winding down (some could make an argument against that with the recent developments with Russia/Ukraine, and ISIS in Iraq).

Maybe they have contracts I'm not privy to, or their LEO/mil sales are still going stronger than I imagine, but I don't know many enlisted men who are issued Surefire lights (I'm talking about your typical Marine, not high speed special ops or anything).


----------



## ike1985 (Aug 25, 2014)

What does surefire offer over eagletac and other similar competitors in the durable/tactical market? Is it just the "made in the usa" part?


----------



## calipsoii (Aug 25, 2014)

Whatever the reason may be, a 30% increase is crazy. All of my local LEO stores have already switched to Streamlight, 5.11 Tactical, Fenix, Bushnell, etc because the Surefire's weren't selling at the 2013 prices, nevermind 30% higher 2014 prices. I don't know what % of Surefire's sales go to large defense contracts and such, but it would seem consumer sales can't be a huge portion because no consumer is going to spend $350 ($450 outside of the US) on an E2L-AA.

Don't know what else there is to say. :shrug: They produced some timeless lights back in their hey-day but I haven't seen a single thing in the last 2 years that got me excited. I can't think of a single new design I'd open my wallet for nowadays so I guess even a 200% increase in price would have 0 impact on me.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what a few years bring us from SF.


----------



## wjv (Aug 25, 2014)

ike1985 said:


> Isn't the appeal of surefire lights durability and the fact that they use dual springs in weapon lights? Does anyone else use a spring in front of and behind the battery on flashlights?



Yes, many makers do. Fenix, Armytec and several others do have dual springs on their 18650 lights.


----------



## eff (Aug 25, 2014)

wjv said:


> Yes, many makers do. Fenix, Armytec and several others do have dual springs on their 18650 lights.



That's right. I know a few Eagletac models do have double springs in them (MX25L3C, Gx25a3, etc..).
Hds lights also have dual springs.


----------



## eff (Aug 25, 2014)

leon2245 said:


> Yeah go for it. I say charge as much as they're willing to pay, so long as their market forecasts etc. predict more profit even if fewer people buy.
> 
> I just think is funny coming so quickly after putting their stuff in more big box stores. I've seen the same few sf's collecting dust in a walmart glass case all year- maybe once they increase the price even further beyond the rayovacs & mags, the right walmart customer will perceive their value as being higher, enough to buy.



I'm sensing a bit of a sarcasm here


----------



## eff (Aug 25, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> 30% increase is like shooting yourself in the foot,sounds like the 2+2=5 brigade are out in force or someone put a nought on the real idea of a 3% increase imo.To be honest it does not bother me as i would never pay there prices at present let alone with any increase.



I guess they simply wanted to increase their exposure in local stores. The only way to encourage the resellers to display Surefires lights on the shelves, was to increase the MAP, to allow for better profit margin.
However I'm not certain that this will convince the regular customer to spend a few hundred $$ in a light, be it reliable or not.


----------



## Gadgetman7 (Aug 25, 2014)

Surefire is in custom light territory now. I'd much rather have a programmable HDS or a slightly used McGizmo for these prices.


----------



## LuxCupitor (Aug 25, 2014)

Just piling on but..

I wasn't going to pay their prices at current level and I sure am not about to now.


----------



## Timothybil (Aug 26, 2014)

Does anyone know if they are raising the dealer's invoice price as well as the MAP? That could give us some more insight into what they are trying to accomplish.

For myself, the only interesting things they have come out with that I would be close to buying if I had the money would be the 2011 with the watch, and one of the Arcs. Everything else seems to be approaching the same sets of performance criteria from different directions. It's like "You want this level of output, try this, this, or that. Oh, you want more than one level, that's over here. Oh, you want the combat version, that's back this other way. You want 18650? I'm sorry, the only one we have that uses the world's most popular rechargeable cell is the P1R, but it is on back-order." It is like General Motors after Durant - Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Cadillac. Same chassis, different sheet metal and more default option, $5k more. What a way to run a railroad!


----------



## MatthewSB (Aug 26, 2014)

ike1985 said:


> What does surefire offer over eagletac and other similar competitors in the durable/tactical market? Is it just the "made in the usa" part?



Consistently incredible reliability.

Consistently incredible customer service.

A reputation earned on the battlefield that no one else can claim.

I have cheap lights that I use, but I never leave my home without a Surefire within reach, in case something goes wrong and I absolutely _need_ my light to work.


----------



## ChrisGarrett (Aug 26, 2014)

Losing all of those .mil contracts, has its privileges.

From the above posted numbers, it looks indeed to be between 25%-30%.

Chris


----------



## Kestrel (Aug 27, 2014)

It will be no surprise to read the same comments recycled from previous threads, a very small sample of which are provided below:
2002
2002
2003
2006
2011

Twelve years ago, some things never change:


nonbox said:


> *SF are over my budget now.* I am glad I bought 2 before the 30% increase.



And after reading the 12-page thread from back in 2008, I don't think that there should be much suspense with regards to new posts here in this thread.


----------



## PierceTheNight (Aug 27, 2014)

In a few years, inflation will catch up and the price increases will seem like no big deal.


----------



## cland72 (Aug 27, 2014)

Kestrel said:


> It will be no surprise to read the same comments recycled from previous threads, a very small sample of which are provided below:
> 2002
> 2002
> 2003
> ...



Wow, kind of puts it into perspective.


----------



## Illum (Aug 27, 2014)

Seems like an unusual but emerging business plan. Secure contracts, raise prices, collect candy


----------



## eff (Aug 28, 2014)

PierceTheNight said:


> In a few years, inflation will catch up and the price increases will seem like no big deal.



Unless they rise the prices again in the meantime


----------



## TheVat26 (Sep 5, 2014)

Prices are now officially up. Glad I got my P1R last week for $175 versus the now $225.


----------



## tonkem (Sep 5, 2014)

B&H still has the same price. 



TheVat26 said:


> Prices are now officially up. Glad I got my P1R last week for $175 versus the now $225.


----------



## N8N (Sep 5, 2014)

Benchmade did the same thing a while back... they're still in business. It wasn't so much that they raised prices, but they basically told all the online dealers that they could only discount to a certain level or they'd lose their distributorship. Theory being, I suppose, to protect the local gun shop owners etc. that sold Benchmade products.

Apparently some people are still willing to pay for quality... (I do have to admit to EDCing a Griptilian, although it was bought just before the price hike was announced.)


----------



## scout24 (Sep 5, 2014)

Always stinks when prices go up. My fear is that vintage incan prices rise as well...  Not a fan of the new stuff, but it does seem they are trying to stay current re: outputs and features they think people want.


----------



## gunlove (Sep 21, 2014)

N8N said:


> Benchmade did the same thing a while back... they're still in business. It wasn't so much that they raised prices, but they basically told all the online dealers that they could only discount to a certain level or they'd lose their distributorship. Theory being, I suppose, to protect the local gun shop owners etc. that sold Benchmade products.
> 
> Apparently some people are still willing to pay for quality... (I do have to admit to EDCing a Griptilian, although it was bought just before the price hike was announced.)



Benchmade in contrast has been dropping in quality for 5-10 years now.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Sep 22, 2014)

gunlove said:


> Benchmade in contrast has been dropping in quality for 5-10 years now.



Substantiate that please.

Bill


----------



## gunlove (Sep 22, 2014)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Substantiate that please.
> 
> Bill




I just did some googling, I may be behind the times. It looks like although not all Benchmade are made in the USA right now, 90% are. They recently discontinued the "red class" China production knives. So perhaps they are on the up swing. However, in the Balisong department, the best ones they ever made were in the past and the new ones aren't a good comparison.
I think surefire has a higher level of quality and production. Unscrewing the head of a surefire always impresses me with the level of precision and craftsmanship underneath.


----------



## choombak (Sep 24, 2014)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Substantiate that please.
> 
> Bill



After over two dozen benchmades, I do find them lacking in quality control relative to the price they charge for a production company -- mismatched factory bevels, blade play that does not go away even after sending it in for service, off center blades, non-flush scales. Cosmetic, and does not affect performance, so one may argue on that part. With the current price levels, several other production knives come near perfect in fit and finish. However, benchmade customer service is top notch and so is their warranty. I believe you also purchase these things along with the knife.


----------



## tphill (Sep 24, 2014)

Just my opinion, but I do not believe that "customer service is top notch and so is their warranty" can be true if "blade play that does not go away even after sending it in for service" is true.


----------



## choombak (Sep 24, 2014)

tphill said:


> Just my opinion, but I do not believe that "customer service is top notch and so is their warranty" can be true if "blade play that does not go away even after sending it in for service" is true.



Overall experience considered, they do have excellent CS and warranty. I should have given more examples - they almost never charge for repairs (even though they may state otherwise in the literature), send several spares for free - clips, screws, always have spares in stock except in very rare circumstances, can be reached by phone and are polite. I did have the blade play not going away experience once, but I consider it an exception than the norm.


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


----------



## Albert56 (Sep 24, 2014)

They make some OK lights, but for my money they've always been overpriced for the average consumer. A 30% increase I think would really kill sales for them.


----------



## newbie66 (Sep 25, 2014)

Albert56 said:


> They make some OK lights, but for my money they've always been overpriced for the average consumer. A 30% increase I think would really kill sales for them.



An alternative to Surefire is Malkoff lights. Their lights are potted too. Pricing is not bad as well. Durability may even exceed certain Surefire models I think.


----------



## Kestrel (Sep 25, 2014)

Albert56 said:


> They make some OK lights, but for my money they've always been overpriced for the average consumer. A 30% increase I think would really kill sales for them.


Which 30% increase would kill sales for them? They've already had a few by now and I'm guessing sales are still OK ...


----------



## Timothybil (Sep 25, 2014)

Well, now we know one of the reasons for the price increase. I've been getting emails today about the new version of some of their high-power lights that have new emitters that take them to a higher lumen level. First, you raise the base price of all the existing lines, improving the bottom line, etc., etc. Then, bring out some upgrades to your top of the line, so that when you charge a premium for the new, 'better' version, it is a premium against the new base, and not the old price levels. For people who see the new ads and just have to have the latest and brightest lights, and aren't Surefire addicts like we are and aren't aware of the recent price hike, the new prices seem like not that big of a deal over the existing price. Even if Surefire doesn't up the price for the new lights, they will say, 'Look at all that extra brightness, and at no extra price! Gotta have one.'


----------



## 880arm (Sep 25, 2014)

Timothybil said:


> Well, now we know one of the reasons for the price increase. I've been getting emails today about the new version of some of their high-power lights that have new emitters that take them to a higher lumen level. First, you raise the base price of all the existing lines, improving the bottom line, etc., etc. Then, bring out some upgrades to your top of the line, so that when you charge a premium for the new, 'better' version, it is a premium against the new base, and not the old price levels. For people who see the new ads and just have to have the latest and brightest lights, and aren't Surefire addicts like we are and aren't aware of the recent price hike, the new prices seem like not that big of a deal over the existing price. Even if Surefire doesn't up the price for the new lights, they will say, 'Look at all that extra brightness, and at no extra price! Gotta have one.'



Check SureFire's prices and you will see they are the same as before the "new" items were released. It appears the only change has been in their Minimum Advertised Pricing policy which affects what price retailers may list their products at. This will result in higher retail prices and improved margins for the retailers. It really wasn't that long ago that retailers had to list products at the full MSRP.


----------



## tab665 (Sep 26, 2014)

880arm said:


> Check SureFire's prices and you will see they are the same as before the "new" items were released. It appears the only change has been in their Minimum Advertised Pricing policy which affects what price retailers may list their products at. This will result in higher retail prices and improved margins for the retailers. It really wasn't that long ago that retailers had to list products at the full MSRP.


these new higher prices still aren't as high as they were a few years ago. I got my M6LT when it first came out, only for the price to drop like 200 bucks a couple years later! the UB3T came out at 800 bucks and suddenly the price was cut in half! with this price increase the light are still cheaper than they were 4 years ago.


----------



## eff (Sep 26, 2014)

Imho, they still have interesting lights listed under 100$ (G2 & 6PX). It's just too bad their higher end lights are overpriced. 
I think maybe they should imitate other Us competitors (Elzetta, Malkoff) that offer lights with comparable performance and durability, for half the price.


----------



## 880arm (Sep 26, 2014)

eff said:


> Imho, they still have interesting lights listed under 100$ (G2 & 6PX). It's just too bad their higher end lights are overpriced.
> I think maybe they should imitate other Us competitors (Elzetta, Malkoff) that offer lights with comparable performance and durability, for half the price.



It's hard to beat the 6PX and especially the G2X on a price basis. 

I love me some Malkoff and Elzetta but aside from the Malkoff MDC I think they cost almost as much, in some cases more, than comparable SureFire lights.


----------



## eff (Sep 26, 2014)

880arm said:


> It's hard to beat the 6PX and especially the G2X on a price basis.
> 
> I love me some Malkoff and Elzetta but aside from the Malkoff MDC I think they cost almost as much, in some cases more, than comparable SureFire lights.


Yes that's the case for the entry level or mid level flashlights.
I was rather thinking of the higher end Malkoff hound dog or the Malkoff wildcat that are doing 1000+ lumen, and are listed respectively at 110$ and 149$.


----------



## 880arm (Sep 26, 2014)

True, the price for the Wildcat and Hound Dog heads are somewhat less than several of the SureFire lights. One point in favor of modular design if you already have a body to use them with! I really hate that SureFire has moved away from that with all but their E-series and (some) weapon lights.


----------

