# head light for dog mushing?



## musherbryan (Jan 8, 2007)

I have both the Brunton and PT Apex and would still like a brighter LED headlamp for dog mushing. I love the battery pack extension with the brunton. still would like a tighter beam with more throw to aid in spotting moose and trail markers. Any ideas? Mods?


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## Pila_Power (Jan 8, 2007)

PT EOS isn't bad after modding with reflector and removing optic.

I haven't seen any of those other lights you have so I can't offer a comparison sorry.


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## fishx65 (Jan 8, 2007)

Let the dogs ride on the sled and pull it with a snowmobile!:laughing:


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## musherbryan (Jan 8, 2007)

lol great idea.... too bad the races frown against that!!!

Snowmachines are alot heavier to haul if you run out of gas too!

Pila any details on the EOS modding?


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## OceanView (Jan 8, 2007)

Since mushing isn't a very popular in my parts, would you mind describing the qualities of a good mushing headlamp? For example, does it need to tolerate lithium batteries, like lithium AA's, for better cold weather performance? Does it have to be very waterproof? How far do you need the beam to throw? Just curious.

As far as modding the EOS goes, I asked about making the EOS beam more floody, but there's a lot of good tidbits of info in it, including doing the EOS reflector mod. Don't mean to steal Pila's thunder or anything, but you can read about it here.

Good luck finding the perfect mushing headlamp!


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## TedTheLed (Jan 9, 2007)

try looking here http://www.caves.org/imo/frames1.htm under 'headlamps' and 'led flashlights' for (more headlamps)
--note the Stenlight.


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## NoFair (Jan 9, 2007)

The Stenlight is the best option. It might be possible to upgrade it with better emitters (leds) in the future.

It has switchable optics to give the throw or flood you want and it is extremly well built. Somewhat expensive, but probably the best medium headlight out there.

Lupine also makes some very nice, very expensive, extremly bright, headlamps.. 

I think there are some HID headlamps out there that would be great and much brighter than leds, but I don't have any advice on what to buy there.


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## chumley (Jan 10, 2007)

If you want throw, forget leds and get a bright incandescent bike light that can be mounted to a head strap. NiteRider has both halogen and hid lights that can be used as headlamps.

I'm sure that there are other brands that can be adapted for headlamp mounting.


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## jar3ds (Jan 10, 2007)

i'd look into the stenlight ... if that is too expensive/unavailble get the apex


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## Dan_GSR (Jan 10, 2007)

stenlight is one of the best
id get that, and put the batterypack in your jacket, close to your body
to keep them warm, and last longer


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## yellow (Jan 10, 2007)

look around at the bike-light area,
some of the better but expensive makers have already been mentioned (stenlight, Lupine, Light & Motion, ...)

be4 purchasing a HID light (Lupine Edison, L&M Arc, ...) *TRY ONE OUT!*
Maybe in the snow You dont like the color, or Your dogs.
Same for LED-based lights (Stenlight, Lupine Wilma).
"Cheaper", shorter runtime halogen lights like the Lupine Nighmare (best of the breed) give me a way better feeling, but I am used to summer conditions, thats why I mentionned snow.


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## cedarcreek (Jan 13, 2007)

What kind of runtime do you need? And how far out are you hoping to see?

I'm planning to buy a serious orienteering headlamp soon, and that probably means buying it from England or Sweden. I'm looking at four brands:

the Silva 478 and Silva 480
http://www.silva.se/orienteering/produkter/1dis_hea.htm

Mila brand (it says Halogen, but they also have an HID)
http://mila.se/pannlampor/pannlampor.htm 

Lupine HID (primarily a bike light manufacturer, but Halogen and LED as well. 
http://www.lupine.de/en/products/products.html

I know someone with a NiteRider HID bike light with a headlamp accessory.
http://www.niterider.com/bike.shtml

My plan is to buy the headlamp with no batteries or charger, and to have the pack assembled in the US. They're charging *way too much* for batteries, and their chargers are for 240V. (I'll also buy the special connector to attach to my battery pack, so I don't have to modify the headlamp with a new connector.)

I've held a few of these in my hands, and they're well made and very light. The only time I've seen them in use in the woods, I had a 7.5W Princeton Tec Surge, and I thought I was doing pretty well, and then this guy appeared to my right with this enormous bright area in front of him. I was really envious of that light. In another post, someone recommended attending a Night Orienteering event to see these headlamps. I disagree---In the US, anyway, these lamps are very unusual.

It seems the 10W/20W Halogen models are similar in performance and cost. Silva claims 250m capability for the 480, but that's almost certainly an exaggeration. It's my understanding these have a large flood area with a fairly narrow hot spot to see out a ways. The HID models (typically 13W or so) are much brighter, and much more expensive. 

Here's a video showing a huge bunch of people wearing these headlamps:
http://www.jukola2006.net/index.php?lang=en&page=videot
Look for any of the four links under the words "Videos of Salon Messut 21.-23.5.2004" For discerning CPFer's, the "beam shots" in this video does not do justice to how bright these lights are. There are a few shots in full darkness near the end.

Matthew
Cincinnati

This is my first CPF post. Someone I know recommended the site to me about a month ago. Since it seems many people list their lights in the sig, I'll list a few highlights:
SF 6P (maybe 10 or 12 years old---is that possible?), 2x PP Super Sabrelight, PT Surge, and 2x PT EOS.


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## John N (Jan 13, 2007)

cedarcreek said:


> I know someone with a NiteRider HID bike light with a headlamp accessory.
> http://www.niterider.com/bike.shtml



Yah, something like the NiteRider Moab might be optimal:

HID + LED + Li-Ion

Claims 11 hrs on HID and 720 using LED.

-john


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## NoFair (Jan 13, 2007)

The Silva and Milas are the most used brands here in Norway for night skiing and night orienteering. Quality is good.

Most of them are just a huge reflector with 2 halogen bulbs (5-20W most usual). One for high and 1 for low output.
They are very bright, throw isn't great, but they put out a lot of light.
The batteries are way overpriced and not extremly good either.

I usually get by using my Apex, but since you will be standing on a sled the added weight wont be an issue.

Sverre


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## musherbryan (Jan 20, 2007)

thanks for all the info!!! I want to stay with LED so I don't have to worry about changing birned out bulbs at 50 below!!! the APEX and the Brunton are both great for mushing in general. I find the beams to be too diffused and would love to have them in a more focused beam aith minimal sidespill. or for the option of a quick burst of brighter light. Might have to wait for the 5 watters to come out. Any clue what that might be?


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## jar3ds (Jan 20, 2007)

i would think modding an apex with a cree might be a decent solution... some people here on this board have said that its the best reflector\LED combo they`ve seen..


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## musherbryan (Jan 21, 2007)

Ok I'm begining to realise that I'm over my head i technology here. Maybe I need to focus on the dogs. Any ideas of anyone who would want to play around with my apex and see what they can do to make it better, ie. more throw?


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## cedarcreek (Jan 21, 2007)

I notice a preference on CPF for floody headlamps, and that's good for working around camp or walking along, but it doesn't cut it for moving fast (for me, running off trail), and for reaching out to see things (as you mention---moose and trail markers).

There is a preference among adventure racers for lights with a lot of run time for the long times they're out. I see a lot of 1W and 3W LED lamps for them.

I'm skeptical that you will get the throw you seem to want in a 3W package. If you want more, you're probably going to have to make something or accept other technologies.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic---I find a 1W EOS great for just normal outdoor things. It just doesn't have enough throw. My teammate in an adventure race last summer had a Petzl Myo XP, with 3W and a button for a claimed 65m boost mode. I don't recall how well the boost worked, but the standard high beam was good for moving at running speed on trails. (We didn't need much---we walked all but about 20 minutes of a 6 hour race. It was too hilly for us. I do adventure races once in a while, but I don't consider myself an adventure racer...) We had bright flashlights to use near controls, where we needed to reach out and light up a reflector.

One thing I didn't realize until I posted earlier was that it's possible to buy 5W lamps for the halogen orienteering headlamps. Those usually have two lamps with a selector switch, so there is some redundancy. You could have the option for the standard 10W/20W, or a 5W/10W, or 5W/20W combinations. What I was trying to understand was what your runtime needs are. If you need several days of all night light, you'll probably have to get by with using a 3W-5W battery drain most of the time, and have something else for lighting up markers occasionally. If you need one night with a lot of high power needs---you're going to need something more than a 3W LED, and some substantial battery pack.


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## musherbryan (Jan 21, 2007)

Ya, reading that, maybe I need to better clarify what I need. currently the Brunton at the meduim levels works fine for general travel on the sled. All I need or want most of the time (75%) is a moon glow. The other 25% When I'm looking for markers, moose, or going through trecherous terrain, I want blinding bright. With that said I want to stay with the LED for all of this because of the trouble with changing bulbs at 20to50 below. I traditionally with all of our headlamps for mushing we change the battery packs from head mount to remote mount inside our parkas to keep them warm and reduce the weight on our heads. We typically send batterys out on the trail for longer races and carry a spare set so ideally 6-8 hours of battery life is ideal out of the approx. equilivant to 4 D-cells.


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## Duluth Diesel (Jan 24, 2007)

Musherbryan, I am close to mushing circles around MN and WI. One product that is being tried out on the trails is the Cygolite HiFlux 100. http://www.cygolite.com/2-Products/3-Hiflux100.htm

It is about 50 to 60 bucks. It runs a LED and is a great light. It is sled or helmet mountable and has a remote mounted switch with high and low modes. I have personally played with these and they work great. Lots of light, and since this economical 100 model runs on C batteries with a separate battery pack, you don't have to mess with rechargables during a long race. C lithiums would be advisable if you are going to sled mount the light and have the battery in the cold. C alkalines would be fine if you were wearing the light and could keep the battery pack warm inside your coat.

2 of these lights will be tested during the 2007 running of the John Beargrease Sled Dog Marathon, and I am personally responsible for having these lights tested. 

-Chuck


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## auroreboreale (Jan 28, 2007)

Whatever you get, try it out in conditions similar to your race or trip conditions. 

Here, North of 60, I use a massive 12W/32W twin headlamp for on-road and off-road biking in long polar nights. While the days are slowly lengthening, I am not yet using my lighter-weight LED headlamp from Nitehawk systems.

You might want to look at their kit---decide what run times you need. Some of theirs use 4XAA batteries---I use rechargeable NIMH. All winter, I carry the Nitehawk helmet light and alkaline AA's as a back-up light to get me home if my primary light dies. Clicked down through the main switch you can get some pretty long burn times for close-up tasks, or on wink mode as a marker light.

Nitehawk's K2 Emitter might have the power you are looking for. Try MEC.ca on the web, or Nitehawk's site for details. Most of their stuff is available as a head lamp or as a helmet light. You are right to get something with a remote battery pack so that you can keep the batteries warm under your coat. Route as much of the cord under your clothes as you can, as below -26C a lot of plastics crack; at -40C/F pretty much everything but polar cord cracks. If you like something, I would buy a spare plug-in battery pack and cord, so that you change battery packs instead of messing about with loose batteries when your batteries die. 

I am not entirely happy with the Nitehawk's low-battery automatic back-up function where it drops to 10% power to save dying battery life---it works with alkalines, but it kicks in for NIMH cells as well, I find, even when the light is set, through its single, multi-click switch, to burn NIMH cells. Still, LED is the way to go...


Marche!*

*(French Canadian origin of 'Mush'!)


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## cooper (Feb 21, 2007)

Forget the LED as a stand alone for running dogs. There just isn't enough light to spot moose or even to watch the lead dogs carefully. What works for me best is to wear two at the same time, an LED/halogen combination like the MYO5 and a much more powerful 6V "D" cell halogen setup just above it. The 6V "D" halogens are not stock and examples are the ones Coldspot feeds in Fairbanks sells. I'm sure there are other sources too and websites for them. I make my own 6V halogen systems with the push switch on the headband. Both run off battery packs carried on a waist and/or shoulder harness carried under my parka. The MYO5 is a combo LED/halogen and the halogen is really not bright enough for stand alone but is nice for backup of the much brighter 6V system.

When I first tried this system (it was pretty inadvertant) I was amazed at how enjoyable it is to really be able to see both distant objects and closer ones (with the LED floodlight) at the same time. Of coures, when it's moonlight, the northern lights are dancing, and you're going across a lake with no caribou around, just turn the whole system off and enjoy. But I'm sure that you already know that!

A better solution than the one above would be to make up an LED/ bright halogen that ran off a 6V "D" cell battery pack and if I were starting again I would probably do that. So far as I am aware no such system exists but I'm sure lots of mushers would buy one.


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