# 64663 36V 400 Watt Ele II - Overdriven by 10 cells



## sylathnie (Aug 23, 2008)

Words fail me on this. :naughty: Beamshots to follow tonight. Here is a few teasers:
The light:





The bulb:




Some minor reflector modifications:




Just about cooled down:




Seen through a welding lens:




Control Beamshot:




TK10 Beamshot (Same camera settings):




64663 Beamshot (Same camera settings):


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## Illum (Aug 23, 2008)

16000 bulb lumens by design....overdriven! 
that is one SEXY light saber!


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## Flashanator (Aug 23, 2008)

so does this surpass luxyboy's insane #1 mag? 

whats the longest you run it for? what battery setup? what voltage?

i cant wait for beamshots, if you can compare to a generic light that would be great.

:thumbsup:


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## choppers (Aug 23, 2008)

:bow:


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## sylathnie (Aug 23, 2008)

Beamshots have been added to the first post. I need to play with my camera a bit. Those don't look so great to me. (Blurry) Maybe I will try again later. 

I've run it for up to 5 minutes. At that point the head is almost too hot to touch. The body stays relatively cool.
I have 10 Emoli 16850s in the battery holder and 2 spacers. I can light this thing up right off the charger with no . I may eventually try a 11th cell but benchtesting shows that these bulbs go pop at or around 43V. I have only tested one though.

I'm using a IRF1404 mosfet for the switch. (It came as part of the Ryobi pack that I harvested the cells from). I don't experience any problems in benchtesting the switch at up to 50 volts and 15 amps so I don't expect to have any problems with the light.

The battery sees about 41 Volts initially and that tapers of fairly quickly. According to my measurements I'm pulling about 13.3 amps off the pack. The cells don't seem to get warm at all.

I desperately need to get myself a FM3V2 head (or maybe V3 ). The beam is quite floody due to the size of the filament. It still out throws everything else I have but not quite in the light saber way.

It does produce that cool pillar of blue light that I haven't seen out of any of my lights yet. You can just barely see a hint of it in the beamshot.

A big thanks goes out to all the folks here. This forum has been a wealth of information. :thumbsup:


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## Flashanator (Aug 23, 2008)

Oh boy!!!!! thats amazing!!!!!!!! :UBER DROOL: x10

I have to get someone here to make me one, *anyone??? PLZZZZZZZ*


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## vestureofblood (Aug 23, 2008)

You will not hear me say this every day but, Very nice. I think CPFers get a bit desensitized to lights sometimes. Its nice to know there is still some "WOW" left in the world for even the most calliced individuals. Good beamshots too. I love the host. I always prefer a stick like m*g shape type host over a square lantern type host. Only thing I would say could be better is a bit more heat sink so you get more than five min at a time. Still very impressive. I would like to hear how many 5 min sessions you get from the batteries (total runtime estimate)


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## Illum (Aug 23, 2008)

yeah, we lose perspective of things really quick....especially with big guns that throws out everything from 1k to 100k bulb lumens....

its always good to take a night walk with a stock 3D mag to really appreciate what we have. [and bring a spare with that!]


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## SafetyBob (Aug 24, 2008)

Crap, another build.....

Since I just did my first FET switch, could you give us a couple of minutes of your time and explain how you did yours? Interested if you just did simple switch replacement with the FET or do you have any special controls with it? Regulated? 

Nice light and I really have to get one of those FM big reflector/heads...

Bob E.


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## Raoul_Duke (Aug 24, 2008)

:twothumbs :duh2: :naughty:

Very Nice.

Whats with the fillament on this lamp. Does it have to be connected the right way round? 

Looks one side of the wire that leads to the fillament is coiled tightly.

How wide is the lamp? What size did you bore the reflector hole out to?

Never seen a good shot of a 2.5" FM reflector / head like that before.

Looks to be an efficient way to conduct alot of the heat to the head of the light having the reflector and bezzle all in one.

That might be whats saving the reflective coating from bubbling up.

A suggestion ( dont know if it works ) but this is what I do. I think slowly rotating the light in the hand while you have it on ( still pointing the light in the same direction) might save on any hot spots getting uneven heat on the reflector/ vs leaving in one ( switch pointing to the sky ) position all the time.


Again.....Very nice !!!!!!


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## sylathnie (Aug 24, 2008)

The FET switch I built is almost the exact same as this one. The only difference is the MOSFET itself.

I did a bit of experimenting and can't seem to find any difference in polarity on the light. It pulls the same current and runs the same no matter which leg is positive.

The bulb diameter at it's widest point is .597" I widened the opening on the reflector to .625" with a double fluted titanium step bit.

The bulb has to be very low in the reflector for good focus. I have actually added a rubber gasket to the connection between the two head pieces. This doesn't seem to affect thermal transfer between the 2 pieces at all.




This makes the optimum focus point when the head is screwed down enough to just barely touch the o-ring on the body.


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## wquiles (Aug 25, 2008)

Very nice project 

Will


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## sylathnie (Aug 27, 2008)

I got a good "pillar" shot finally. It's not nearly as impressive as it is in real life but still nice.


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## SafetyBob (Aug 30, 2008)

Nice beam shot. 

Sounds like someone could use a custom lower Kiu socket? 

How tall is that bulb also.....say compared to a 623 if you have used one?

Bob E.


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## Illum (Aug 30, 2008)

_*NEVERMIND!*_


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## wquiles (Aug 30, 2008)

sylathnie said:


> I did a bit of experimenting and can't seem to find any difference in polarity on the light. It pulls the same current and runs the same no matter which leg is positive.



There can't be any difference for a bulb - from a circuit point of view it is basically a "resistor", so it will be the same either way you connect it


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## Raoul_Duke (Aug 30, 2008)

wquiles said:


> There can't be any difference for a bulb - from a circuit point of view it is basically a "resistor", so it will be the same either way you connect it



We All Kind Knew that, but one "leg" is all coiled up towards the fillament, so I wondered what it did, and if it should be positioned a certain way :thinking:


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## sylathnie (Aug 30, 2008)

As requested:
From left to right 64623 - 64663 - 64665


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## Illum (Aug 30, 2008)

_that _is a monster!


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## Meltdown (Aug 31, 2008)

that is freeking hysterical! I think if you look closely there are clouds inside of it....it's so big it has it's own ecosystem.


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## Flashanator (Aug 31, 2008)

Ive held the 64663, its GIGANTIC!!!!


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## sylathnie (Aug 31, 2008)

Yep. It is huge. I'm trying to figure out how to mirrorize the lower half of the bulb. I figure i'm losing quite a few lumes back into the body of the light. Needless to say with that size filament it produces a very floody light. Anyone have a FM 3 inch head (red) they would be willing to sell?

I'm waiting for AWs new soft starter to really play with the 64665. It will take some nice voltage levels without popping.


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## Ganp (Aug 31, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


>



*+++++* recurring :devil:

 Colin.


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## SafetyBob (Sep 1, 2008)

Actually, I didn't know they could make such a huge bi-pin bulb. That really is incredible!!

Bob E.


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## JetskiMark (Sep 2, 2008)

Nice build. Kudos.

I really like the 64663. It really screams when it is overdriven.

I thought about doing something similar but even with a nine inch reflector, the 64663 is not focused as sharply as I would prefer. I would like to see what an even larger reflector could do with that huge filament. I really like a tightly focused beam.

I have an FM3V2 with a 64458 and it is almost all flood. I think it would be even more floody with the 64663 and not be much of an improvement over the Throwmaster. If you are in the Los Angeles area, by chance, you could see just how floody it is and also see how the 64663 looks with a nine inch reflector.

A tip on using a tripod with an image stabilized camera such as your Canon SD800; turn off the IS. I see in the EXIF data that the IS was turned on in continuous mode. I have several cameras and lenses with IS and if I forget to turn off the IS when I am using a tripod, I usually get some "camera shake" type blur from the IS slightly moving the lens element even with the camera held steady.


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## sylathnie (Sep 3, 2008)

Hrm so maybe I need a different reflector entirely to get that beam tighter. Anyone know of any other possible reflectors? Perhaps it's more of a difference in reflector design that I need to be looking for. I guess I need to start researching optics and reflectors.

Unfortunately I'm way over in Ohio. But thanks for the offer! Where does one purchase a 9 inch reflector?

The camera was actually being held in my hand. I'm just standing out on my front porch. There's really no good place to set up a tripod. (If I had a tripod)


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## SafetyBob (Sep 3, 2008)

For a 9 inch reflector you would have to find a cheap light at Pep Boys or Walmart. Like one of the Thor's I think.....1 or 2 million CP (well, at least that's what it says on the box). 20 or 30 bucks and then start rippin' stuff out!! All you need it a light with a metal reflector.....

I was thinking about throwing a HID light in one of those cheap lights but this monster may be the ticket. 

I still cannot believe just how huge that bulb is compared to a 623....amazing. 

Bob E.


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## Illum (Sep 5, 2008)

I think someone needs to make an updated version of....magplunger74

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/113822


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 7, 2008)

Great accomplishment. I have not been willing to use my 400w bulbs yet, so I added this to the #1 spot. Here are a few of the other "big boys" I have lying around. You can identify them on large photo. Funny to see them make the 623 look like a weenie bulb. I don't think "Sublimator" captures this, as that tends to evoke images of snow flakes evaporating. I was thinking something more like "Terrorizer." 





I don't think you would gain that much with a 3" head on that bulb. Maybe Modamag's upcoming 4" Colossus. The Blitz reflector is more of an ideal size for these size bulbs.


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## sylathnie (Nov 7, 2008)

Here is some testing of the 64665 that I did. It can take some serious voltages. Sadly my switch could not.  (And I couldn't find a good head to put it in)

The 64664 was actually depressing. It only took about 37V before it died.


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Nov 9, 2008)

A "weenie bulb"! I'm in the process of building a Mag 623 and now you've made me feel inadequate.


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## Notchman (Dec 6, 2008)

sylathnie Do You Sell Any Lights Like That Im In ohio Also If So Get With Me


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## sylathnie (Dec 6, 2008)

If sold this would be an expensive light. It was built for the shear purpose of pushing the "mag" form to the extreme. Someday this light may end up on the B/S/T but it won't be for a while. The giggle factor just hasn't left yet. :naughty: I'm not certain if some of the parts are even available any more. 
Just for reference if you are interested in building your own. (Not a first project, this thing is dangerous)
Sublimator:
Silver 2D mag
Kiu Switch Kit
2.5" Throwmaster
Elephant II (Option C)
Ryobi 18V One+ Lithium Pack (10 Batteries and MOSFET switch)
Osram 64663 bulb
Misc resistors, circuit boards, wire, and copper contacts.

Support Hardware:
Mastech HY5020E (For testing and charger)
Hyperion 1210I
2x Hyperion LBA10
Hodgepodge balance assembly of plumbing parts and wire.

It's going to take alot of time and you will be buying spares. (I've destroyed 3 cells, 1 battery holder, 2 reflectors, 1 Mastech power supply, a couple of MOSFETs, and countless bulbs)

(Whew that was alot of links... hopefully they help! :duh2


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 6, 2008)

sylathnie said:


> If sold this would be an expensive light. It was built for the shear purpose of pushing the "mag" form to the extreme. Someday this light may end up on the B/S/T but it won't be for a while. The giggle factor just hasn't left yet. :naughty: I'm not certain if some of the parts are even available any more.
> Just for reference if you are interested in building your own. (Not a first project, this thing is dangerous)
> Sublimator:
> Silver 2D mag
> ...



Excellent post and links. Thanks! I appreciate the emphasized in red part of your post, and suspected as much. What ruined the Mastech? I got a linear Mastech 3020, as did not see that a switching would be as reliable for various purposes.


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## sylathnie (Dec 7, 2008)

Dumping 45V into a 64665 without any voltage ramp up or soft-starter caused a MOSFET in the power supply to go . It was easily repaired once I got ahold of a schematic and started testing the circuit. Still, it was almost a $300 oops. I now have a slightly modified power supply. (New MOSFET is more effecient and rated for higher loads).
I was unable to locate a 50V 20A linear DC power supply that would fit on my bench. (And agree with my wallet) Since the project I was working on at the time utilized up to 12 Lithium cells I needed the higher voltage for testing purposes.


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## ktafil (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow, that's amazing.....
Hard to even recognise the 2D in there!

very nice job!


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## sylathnie (Jan 20, 2009)

Honestly the 2D is only in there for the piece of the head, the switch core, and the little rubber switch cap. It's about as far from the 2D as it can get and still have a little bit of mag "feel" to it.

I still tell people it's a modified mag though. Its just easier. :shrug:


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## dtmcnamara (Jan 21, 2009)

what batteries and how many are you using to run these? Also what other electronics?

its just amazing what you can fit inside a flashlight now


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## sylathnie (Jan 21, 2009)

See post 33 for an ingredient list.


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## Metatron (Jan 22, 2009)

great stuff there, i tried out mine with the 400 watt globe just using 8 IMR's it lit up super bright for 10 secs and then yellowed out, so i have gone back to the osram 24volt 50 watter and its amazing. am using a 40 volt switch by AW specially made for this so i am well in the clear.


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## Raoul_Duke (Jan 22, 2009)

Metatron said:


> great stuff there, i tried out mine with the 400 watt globe just using 8 IMR's it lit up super bright for 10 secs and then yellowed out, so i have gone back to the osram 24volt 50 watter and its amazing. am using a 40 volt switch by AW specially made for this so i am well in the clear.




Whats the " 24volt 50 watter" lamp No?

Cheers


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## Metatron (Jan 22, 2009)

Raoul_Duke said:


> Whats the " 24volt 50 watter" lamp No?
> 
> Cheers


64445U


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 22, 2009)

Metatron said:


> 64445U



Just out of curiosity, what made you want to use a 24v 50w bulb that puts out 850L at spec, and only a 50 hr life? Longer run time?


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## Metatron (Jan 22, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Just out of curiosity, what made you want to use a 24v 50w bulb that puts out 850L at spec, and only a 50 hr life? Longer run time?


given i only have 28.8 volts to play with i tried a 24 volt globe. yes, overdriven, probably well over 850L but the beam and hotspot from that vertical element is great. 50 hour life is fine as a show and tell flashlight.






this is on AW's lowest setting just to show the beam, on the highest setting it just gets too bright for me at that distance.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 22, 2009)

OK, Kewl! No doubt it overdrives above 1,000 at your voltage, and I did notice that axial filament. It similarly gives a much nice beam to the 64625 (vs. 64623) and the Osram "Cadillac" IRC bulbs use that style also. :thumbsup:


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## sylathnie (Jan 23, 2009)

I have looked long and hard for a high wattage axial filament. My old 64633 light is now sporting a 64440 because of the great hotspot that is produced by the axial filament.

Anyone know where I can get one that can take 42V?


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## Boss Hoss (Feb 11, 2009)

Ok----WHO WILL BUILD ME ONE OF THESE????????????????????:kiss:


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## Illum (Feb 11, 2009)

Boss Hoss said:


> Ok----WHO WILL BUILD ME ONE OF THESE????????????????????:kiss:



it depends on how generous of a check your willing to mail


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## mrQQ (Feb 12, 2009)

Metatron, how much did special AW switch cost you? I almost have everything I need to put that bulb into Ele II, all I'm missing is a switch which can hold the voltage and current, and not fry the bulb immediatelly..


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## ss2nv (Feb 22, 2009)

How is the reflector finish holding up to the heat?


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## sylathnie (Feb 22, 2009)

It looks as good as new. I haven't done any runs longer than 10 minutes but I have done alot of them at this point. The coating seems to be holding up well.


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## mrQQ (Feb 23, 2009)

I need to find a easy way to widen the reflector opening on my FM3V-2. I frankly have no idea how to deal with sensitive material as coating. Is it even possible? What tools should I use..


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## sylathnie (Feb 23, 2009)

I utilized a double fluted titanium step bit with a slight bit of silicon lubrication. I took it very very slow and was very careful in the removal of metal shavings. (Think drilling upside down so the shavings fall away from the reflector). I'm pretty sure I was lucky and I don't know if I would suggest the method to others.


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## SR.GRINGO (Mar 3, 2009)

Going to run one of these with 8 AW protected 18650's for an hour run time. Will also used AW's soft start in an elle II. w/ a FM3V-2. I think this will be a very usefull light. Any other recomended bulbs with the protected 18650's for around a half hour run time?


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## sylathnie (Mar 3, 2009)

Are you intending to run the 64663 on protected cells?  It looks like the AW cells will only allow about 5A before the protection circuit trips. This bulb draws about 13 to 14A on ten cells. I'm also not sure that AWs soft start is rated for 400W at this point. (Although it might work for a very very short while )
Just trying to clarify a bit so you don't spend money on something that won't work for you. :thumbsup:


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## SR.GRINGO (Mar 4, 2009)

sylathnie said:


> Are you intending to run the 64663 on protected cells?  It looks like the AW cells will only allow about 5A before the protection circuit trips. This bulb draws about 13 to 14A on ten cells. I'm also not sure that AWs soft start is rated for 400W at this point. (Although it might work for a very very short while )
> Just trying to clarify a bit so you don't spend money on something that won't work for you. :thumbsup:




Nope smaller bulb 24 volt 50 watt....64445U *Metatron show this lamp above...looking for around an hour run time.
*


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## mrQQ (Apr 27, 2009)

Not sure where to post this, but i'll post it here.

While waiting for parts for my 400w Ele attempt to arrive, I tried my cheap DX light meter with lights I have - starting with 600 lux @ 1m keychain AA, ending with.. 145000 lux @ 1m EleII 8S IMR18650 250W Osram monster..  I forgot how insanely bright that light is with freshly charged batteries! Lighting it up in a small bathroom @ ceiling almost blinds you without even looking at hotspot!


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## Alan B (May 29, 2009)

sylathnie said:


> ...
> 
> I'm using a IRF1404 mosfet for the switch. (It came as part of the Ryobi pack that I harvested the cells from). I don't experience any problems in benchtesting the switch at up to 50 volts and 15 amps so I don't expect to have any problems with the light.
> 
> ...



Is the mosfet on any kind of heatsink? Does it get warm at all?? What gate voltage are you using?

That's the same mosfet that we're using in the DropInPHD Programmable Hotwire Regulator...


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## sylathnie (Jun 4, 2009)

No heatsink. Not at all since it is either on or off. It's getting the full pack voltage. The inductive kick on shutdown I've heard mention of doesn't seem to bother it.

In another unrelated test I determined that at about 45 V it starts "leaking" and I start to see >5V on the drain even with no connection to the gate terminal.

I've actually made a few of this same switch to use in a variety of lights and it has served me very well.


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## Alan B (Jun 4, 2009)

sylathnie said:


> No heatsink. Not at all since it is either on or off. It's getting the full pack voltage. The inductive kick on shutdown I've heard mention of doesn't seem to bother it.
> 
> In another unrelated test I determined that at about 45 V it starts "leaking" and I start to see >5V on the drain even with no connection to the gate terminal.
> 
> I've actually made a few of this same switch to use in a variety of lights and it has served me very well.



Nice setup. Those FETs work quite nicely.

This MOSFET is rated at 40V and has a zener type breakdown at some point above that. That sounds like your 45V leakage.

I would not leave the gate floating. I would put a resistor pulling it to the source, or to somewhere safe since it can float and punch through the gate insulation easily.

How are you protecting the gate? I don't think the gate can stand 40V, they're usually rated at 20V or so. I haven't checked the specs on this one recently as we're only driving it with 5V. 10V would be better.


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## guiri (Nov 25, 2009)

sylathnie said:


> There's really no good place to set up a tripod. (If I had a tripod)



Get you a Magic Arm and you can put it just about anywhere. I put the link of the whole series so you can see the different versions. When I bought mine around 15 years ago or more, it just had the clamp option but as you can see, there are other options.

There are many other LOW cost options with clamps. If you're interested, let me know and I'll point you in the right direction.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=magic+arm&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

Or, get one of these 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/297578-REG/VariZoom_VZ_UC_VZ_UC_Universal_Clamp.html#features

With one of these (you won't be able to adjust the camera but you can put a small ball head head on top)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._Bogen_Imaging_2971_2971_Camera_Stud_for.html

Hmm, look what I found http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Mini-Clamp-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca7bc5758

Oops, free shipping 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-Portable-C...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a40ddb6b

Well, that should get you started and you won't have any excuses for NOT posting sharp pics, hehehe

http://cgi.ebay.com/UltraClamp-For-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b7b5b12d

George


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 7, 2019)

I don't think Sylathnie has been on CPF for 4-5 years, but if you see this, do you still have this "King of the Hill" on my Most Powerful Mag Mods sig list?


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## vestureofblood (Jul 18, 2019)

I was just randomly thinking about this light again today. People think that LEDs have been blowing away incans in terms of power for years but it just not true. In efficiency by a mile, but back in 2008 a CPF member could build out a Mag623 with 4000 lumens. This one of a kind beast at 16000 lumens was really only recently matched by a _production_ light like two years ago.


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## sylathnie (Dec 4, 2020)

LuxLuthor said:


> I don't think Sylathnie has been on CPF for 4-5 years, but if you see this, do you still have this "King of the Hill" on my Most Powerful Mag Mods sig list?



I have been away for a while. Other hobbies took up my time for a bit so I stopped building random lights. I've had a failure in my 14W HID build that brought me back to look for what to build in the shell. The Sublimator still exists but is disassembled for storage. The cells are old at this point so I don't get much runtime out of them before they discharge. It comes out to play every now and then to impress folks.

Every time I step back to this hobby I end up with a bunch of new lights... Dangerous hobby.


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