# 5mm LEDs - Any love left?



## carrot (Oct 13, 2016)

Perhaps my interest in 5mm LEDs is purely nostalgia. Before I knew what a flashaholic was, I loved those 5mm LED keychain squeeze lights. First, dollar store ones, then Inova Microlights, then Photon Micro-Lights. Like any flashaholic in the early 00's, I obtained the truly venerable Arc-AA and Arc-AAA.

When my interests moved from pocket lights to headlamps, my first were the Princeton Tec Quad and Petzl Tikka, with their quad-array of 5mm LEDs.

I still use my Tikka daily. I have a Nitecore Tube on my keys. I still enjoy my Arc-AAAs and my Muyshondt Mako and heck, the McGizmo LunaSol 27 counts too. I sneak the Gerber Infinity Ultra into my bags. A Fenix E01 adorns another pair of keys. An Inova X5 is never ever far from reach, two living in my flashlight drawer. I rediscovered my EternaLight. I dug out my old PAL Lights. I even have one of those oddball Surefire Helmet Lights. Of course, let us not forget the finest flashlight of all time, the Surefire A2.

Anybody else with a fondness for 5mm LEDs? Are there still great lights out there on this diminutive, forgotten form factor?


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## DoubleA (Oct 13, 2016)

carrot said:


> Perhaps my interest in 5mm LEDs is purely nostalgia. Before I knew what a flashaholic was, I loved those 5mm LED keychain squeeze lights. First, dollar store ones, then Inova Microlights, then Photon Micro-Lights. Like any flashaholic in the early 00's, I obtained the truly venerable Arc-AA and Arc-AAA.
> 
> When my interests moved from pocket lights to headlamps, my first were the Princeton Tec Quad and Petzl Tikka, with their quad-array of 5mm LEDs.
> 
> ...



I still like my Nite-ize modules for the mini mag. They are a module of 3, 5mm LEDs. They've been tested in the past to have something like a 13 hour runtime on a set of batteries. I like using my mini mag this way to use up older AA batteries when I'm using it around the house. I like the fact that even though they are of the oldest generation of LEDs, they can still have so much efficiency.


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## Illum (Oct 13, 2016)

Carrot!!!! glad to see you back :wave:


heh... 
Anyone remember back in the day [circa 2000] when the CC Trek 4-LED Flashlight hit the forum and everybody was just raving about it? I joined in 2006 but lurked way before that. Then there was Arc AAA, then Turtlelite by LEDCORP? Anyone bought an Eternalight from TechAss?:devil: 
5mm LEDs opened a world of lighting possibilities... and even caused the market to go a little crazy [cluster heads, 100, 238 LED lights anyone? :nana:]

Sure has been a long journey since then, but I am still a fan of it. As long as forward current is kept around 15mA and thermal considerations were taken into the design they are pretty much destined to last forever. 

I hunkered down as opposed to evacuating during the arrival of Hurricane Matthew last week. After nearly nine years of not having to worry about hurricanes caused my flashlight selections to shift to the 1000 lumen varieties. When the house is boarded up from the outside and the power goes out the bright ones became totally useless, where the lack of a low mode rendered them energy hogs in the face of uncertainty. Out came the box of Fenix E01s that I had so carelessly retired and my goodness were they useful. One single 5mm LED can light up a 10 by 20 feet room. I can't read with it when its bouncing off the ceiling, but it gave me a piece of mind, especially in the bathrooms. Six E01s lit the house for two days [battery change halfway was necessary on a couple]. 

Many may laugh to hear that my favorite headlamps are still 5mm LEDs. In the days when PT EOS took the market by storm I bought my first headlamp, a Black diamond Moonlight [3AAA/4 5mm/single mode] and then a Princeton Tec Aurora [3AAA/3 5mm/5 mode]. To date close to 10 years later I still use them regularly. Color rendition is absurd, but it more than made up in the runtime. 

While my carry lights are CREE XP-L HI's nowadays, in my backpack I still kept my trusty Inova X5 by me. Its Nichia CS still performing brilliantly since day 1. 

When I am out on astronomy related events or camping, I tote along a surefire A2-RD as a camp light. Sometimes brighter is not the answer to everything. The LEDs out of a stock A2 is ringy, but a few passes with sandpaper and its smoothed out. 

I loved 5mm, still do.


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## FRITZHID (Oct 13, 2016)

I believe they still have their place today, especially with the much wider variety available compared to late 90s-early '00s. I use them in various low level applications. It's a shame that they've gotten such a bad rep due to designers overdriving them and causing early failures in many applications, (I.e. My very expensive fridge using the ghastly bluish ones for the nightlight feature on the ice/water dispenser, that failed within 6 months). But yes, they are good for the proper application.


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## bykfixer (Oct 13, 2016)

Yup. Still like 'em for certain tasks...

Any new challenges formulating in the carrot brain? 
5mm week for example?


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## Lexel (Oct 13, 2016)

Nitecore Tube is ok with 45lumens on keychain


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## archimedes (Oct 13, 2016)

Sure, I'll post up a few favorites ...

_http://i.imgur.com/RGDfqFQ.jpg_

The sunny_nites ( not the Okluma  ... )

_http://i.imgur.com/DddilRy.jpg_

The Spyglass has a secondary emitter, but I think this one is a 3mm

_http://i.imgur.com/d9FguLi.jpg_

Multi-spectrum MecArmy 

_http://i.imgur.com/lg155W0.jpg_

Did someone say A2 ?

_http://i.imgur.com/qyT4QY5.jpg_

Coin cell and button cell flashlights are still useful

_http://i.imgur.com/0XRox3p.jpg_

Let's not forget Peak

_http://i.imgur.com/O8UbI5H.jpg_

And the all-time classic


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## iamlucky13 (Oct 13, 2016)

carrot said:


> A Fenix E01 adorns another pair of keys...
> 
> Anybody else with a fondness for 5mm LEDs? Are there still great lights out there on this diminutive, forgotten form factor?



I just happened to be twirling my E01 absent-mindedly in my free hand as I read your post. 

No particular love for 5mm in particular. For me it's just about what does the job, and some jobs don't need fancy optics. The EO1 is simple, durable, and runs for hours on batteries that other devices think are empty. If we get the storm that is being forecast for this weekend, it will probably be on for quite a while as a night light in the bathroom or hallway while the power is out.

I've also got an Inova microlight kicking around in a drawer. No complaints about it, but the cost of replacement button cells tends to discourage me from using it.


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## parnass (Oct 13, 2016)

This rugged Rayovac 1AAA uses a 5 mm LED and is a lot brighter than the Arc AAAs. Rubber surrounds the head.

I think it cost me about $5 at Home Depot.


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## RobertMM (Oct 13, 2016)

I'm still waiting on that neutral 5mm Nichia 40 lumen LED that was talked about here a couple years ago but never got to see again.

Was planning to DD it off a single CR123 if I ever got my hands on one, like a cheapo 31LLLL or something.


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## eh4 (Oct 13, 2016)

Is their anything that 5mm is best at? 
Efficiency at 15mA, or efficiency at 15mA/cost? 
I know one thing they are best for is ease of handling, 5mm make jury rigging a light with all thumbs possible.


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## CanadianGuy (Oct 13, 2016)

I feel weird posting on a forum that I've been on for years, but rarely chime in. Anyway, I'm not an extreme flashaholic in the sense of having tons of lights. But I do have a bunch of cheap ones that I've accumulated over the years.

My sister in law got me an Arc AAA when they were popular. I still have it, although the keyring hole is nearly worn through, and it just sits in my toolbox.

My wife works at a hardware store of sorts, called Princess Auto. They are a fairly small retailer here in Canada. I've gotten many lights there over the years, as they are cheap and fairly durable. They aren't the brightest (most are probably 5mm, which ties into this thread!)

If I had a lot of disposable income, I'm sure I'd have a huge collection of high end lights, but I have a mortgage and kids, which is where most of it goes.

Anyway, I still like them. Not because I think they're still relevant. I'm just nostalgic, and remember the dim coloured ones being used in cheap hats and trinkets. I had a Labatts Blue hat as a kid that had a 9V powering a whopping 5 or 6 LEDs 

Oh, and I have a Stubby Dorcy yellow floating 4 AA light that came with an LED bulb that was awfully dim and had a tiny focused spot. The 5mm LED was actually ground down or something. I ended up putting a 6V incan in it. Apparently they usually had those before LEDs started to become popular.


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## KITROBASKIN (Oct 13, 2016)

Three nights a week a Pak-Lite with a pair of emitters and an old 9 volt battery is left on by the wife's bedside for her late night return home. Nitecore Tubes on our keyrings. Maybe a half dozen Laughing Rabbit Photons of various vintage scattered about as backpack zipper pulls.

Anytime CPF member carrot makes a post, it gets read; including the old stuff that gets occasionally dredged up.


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## ZMZ67 (Oct 14, 2016)

I have been using a CMG Infinity Ultra on occasion and of course always Photons on my keys. Pak-lites are an at home favorite for the wife and I both and still see regular use.The secondary 5MM LEDs on my Streamlight Sidewinder are used as much or more than the main LED. The red X5,UV X5,Fenix EO1,green Peak 1XAAA and green Peak 1XCR123( I lost track of the names on the old cluster model Peaks) still see occasional use.
There is probably some nostalgia involved for me with 5MM I did just recently "retire" my white X5s. Some lights like the Pak-lite really don't have an equivalent for me to replace them and aside from having poor tint in the white models they work very well. Neutral white is a preference for me now but if Fenix ,for example,were to release the EO1 with a neutral 5MM I am sure I would be buying several more.


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## ZMZ67 (Oct 14, 2016)

Forgot about the original optic version of the INOVA X1. Not used very often but I keep it handy for the odd time when it serves my needs.


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## archimedes (Oct 14, 2016)

ZMZ67 said:


> .... green Peak 1XAAA and green Peak 1XCR123( I lost track of the names on the old cluster model Peaks) still see occasional use ....



Matterhorn, Kilimanjaro, McKinley


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## StandardBattery (Oct 14, 2016)

Just replaced the battery on my Red light Photon Freedom I keep on my keychain. I run it on a CR2032 for longer life with reduced max brightness, which seems plenty for the red light when I need it. Other than that though I was never a very big fan of any 'white' 5mm LEDs used for flash lights, but I have a couple CMG for historical reasons and they are a good emergency light and one of the multi-LED lights that was an interesting flood light back in the day before flood oriented lights were more popular. Still in electronics I loved the LED, just didn't see it's transition from indicator light to Flash light as being very successful... but you have to start somewhere, No way around it the LED was a milestone.


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## Thetasigma (Oct 14, 2016)

They were cool in 2003 when I never had batteries for the sucker maglites, but I wouldn't use them now being that they were usually angry blue/purple. 
That said you can't get much simpler than wiring up a 5mm LED, don't even need a PCB.

In all honesty I would probably use a hotwire with rechargeables before I go back to 5mm LEDs.


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## eh4 (Oct 14, 2016)

http://store.yujiintl.com/collections/frontpage/products/bc-series-5mm?variant=962057553

Expensive shipping though, 19$ for a 15$ order.


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## LarcKen (Oct 14, 2016)

Nitecore Thumb, nuff said


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## StandardBattery (Oct 15, 2016)

LarcKen said:


> Nitecore Thumb, nuff said


That is a pretty nice one, it may be The Last Hurrah for the 5mm now that the TIP is out.


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## redvalkyrie (Oct 15, 2016)

You guys are lucky, my Arc AAA no longer works...I certainly wish it could be fixed as it was my first premium light.


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## regulator (Oct 15, 2016)

redvalkyrie said:


> You guys are lucky, my Arc AAA no longer works...I certainly wish it could be fixed as it was my first premium light.



I still have my first release Arc AAA and it too stopped working years ago. I keep it for nostalgia. I recently dug up a photon Rex that has four 5mm LEDs and it still works (amazing since these were known to have charging issues). It is unique in that the tint is a very nice rosy color and appears to have very good CRI. I pretty much avoid 5mm lights these days though. But I am always open minded to a cool light if it did use them.


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## Lynx_Arc (Oct 15, 2016)

Here is the past to current history of 5mm LEDs"

Early history of white LED lighting
1)king and only option
2)few lights that had single LEDs with boost drivers, lights using 3x1.5v batteries with resistors and multiple LEDs (Inova).
3)only competition was small fluorescent tubes as far as efficiency.
4)$1 or more cost per LED, hard to get

Arrival of the Luxeon power LED ~30 lumens/watt
1)No longer king of LEDs requiring multiple LEDs (up to 15) to match 1 Luxeon
2)lights showing up with linear regulator type circuits and cheaper boost circuits
3)still able to compete in efficiency but not fluorescent still better for flood lighting
4)cost a little cheaper but and a little easier to get but not easy

Arrival of Cree power LED emitters ~60-80 lumens/watt
1)5mm can no longer compete except in large quantities (shower head, arrays)
2)higher power boost circuitry some smd integrated circuits in lights now with more
than 3x1.5v solutions in lights now.
3)5mm LEDs can no longer compete and flourescent lighting competes in flood lighting in higher
output needs still (lanterns)
4)cheap now can buy in quantity with even premium brands/quality LEDs that can be purchased
with effort (group buys) 

Arrival Cree XP/XML series LEDs, COB LED arrays, SMD (chip) LEDs 80-160 lumens/watt
1)5mm LEDs have limited preferred use now only better when a very small focused dim light is needed
2)Arrays of 5mm LEDs have been replaced with smaller COB LEDs or a few SMD based LEDs which have 2-5 times the output.
3)COB and SMD and XP/XM based LEDs are cheap enough the handle any flood lighting need and all of them surpass fluorescent lighting in efficiency with cost dropping to replace lower lumen lighting needs and soon almost all lighting needs.
4)5mm LEDs will still be useful but are no longer a "go to" solution for lighting.

Lately I've seen companies like Energizer that had all their cheap flashlights (LED) replace all their 5mm models (some with multiple 5mm) with single SMD chip/reflector solutions. The advantage 5mms had is now a disadvantage as SMDs LEDs are probably easier to mass produce as a circuit component on a board thus a single board with an LED emitter can be mass produced easier than having to incorporate lead based 5mm LEDs into the mix. Even lanterns are now showing up with COB and SMD LEDs and cheap headlamps have COB or SMD LEDs on them too. 
The amount of 5mm based lighting in stores has dropped from about 50% to about 10% now and I'm guessing soon other companies will drop the 5mm from all but keychain lights where 5mm LEDs still have a place as the cheapest smallest throwing LED "package". 
After trying COB and SMD LEDs I see little need for 5mm LEDs in most cases as it is an inferior technology.


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## StandardBattery (Oct 15, 2016)

redvalkyrie said:


> You guys are lucky, my Arc AAA no longer works...I certainly wish it could be fixed as it was my first premium light.


Those are pretty dead simple lights, it should be pretty easy for a person that works on lights to fix it. You might want to check with some of the moders here, some of the older ones might be up to repairing it. Even for Nostalgia it's nicer if the light works.


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## The_Driver (Oct 15, 2016)

eh4 said:


> http://store.yujiintl.com/collections/frontpage/products/bc-series-5mm?variant=962057553
> 
> Expensive shipping though, 19$ for a 15$ order.



I can whole-heartedly recommend these!!!
They are real high-cri (93, R9 = 70) 5mm LEDs. This applies to both available color temperatures, 3200K and 5600K. I have some 3200K ones and their light quality, especially in the red spectrum, is noticeably better compared to my lights with Cree XM-L2 3000K 90CRI. 
Another nice thing is the beam profile. They have an even hotspot! This is so much more practical compared to most other 5mm LEDs which often have ringy beams. They achieved this by not using a visible DIE-Structure but rather by pouring the phosphor over it. 
They are actually fairly bright at their maximum rated current of 30mA. 

These will turn any standard keychain light into an actual useable flashlight. An no, I'm not sponsored by them .
The 3200K ones are also a great upgrade for the SureFire A2 (which is where I use them). 

In my eyes the only real downside is that they don't also offer them in 4000K.


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## SubLGT (Oct 15, 2016)

A Photon Freedom has a permanent EDC location in the coin pocket of my jeans. Has survived two unintentional trips through the washing machine.


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## eh4 (Oct 15, 2016)

eh4 said:


> http://store.yujiintl.com/collections/frontpage/products/bc-series-5mm?variant=962057553
> 
> Expensive shipping though, 19$ for a 15$ order.



-that price is for 100 of them anyways.


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## StandardBattery (Oct 15, 2016)

eh4 said:


> http://store.yujiintl.com/collections/frontpage/products/bc-series-5mm?variant=962057553
> 
> Expensive shipping though, 19$ for a 15$ order.





The_Driver said:


> I can whole-heartedly recommend these!!!
> They are real high-cri (93, R9 = 50) 5mm LEDs. This applies to both available color temperatures, 3200K and 5600K. I have some 3200K ones and their light quality, especially in the red spectrum, is noticeably better compared to my lights with Cree XM-L2 3000K 90CRI. .....





eh4 said:


> -that price is for 100 of them anyways.


They only use DHL so yes the shipping is a bit much, but if you are buying other stuff from them you can buy a lot more and have the same shipping. It might be interesting for someone to put together a little upgrade kit for 5mm LED lights that could have more reasonable shipping. Not sure besides the LED what would be good in the kit. Maybe just some disassembly and replacement instructions for different well known 5mm lights. One can open a Nitecore Tube easily enough. I think I should give a try at dropping one of these into a Tube. The mentioned A2 would be really nice I remember before someone making some very fancy rings for that or were the fancy rings for the Chroma? I should look up to see how difficult it is to get into the A2. Seems like that could be a great theme reviving old 5mm LED lights and upgrading them to either better 5mm LEDs or the smaller power-leds, maybe changing the power source. Remember those upgrades to the Solitaire to convert it to LED. The SandwichShop and the sadly missed Lighthound use to sell the little upgrades for the small incans to LED, not it's time to get some LED upgrade modules going for the 5mm. I think that has happened in the past a little, with people swapping out entire light engines from early lights with new ones, but I don't think much attention was paid to the smaller 5mm lights.


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## jabe1 (Oct 16, 2016)

One of my favorites, and probably my most reliable light is a stainless steel Peak Kilimanjaro single led. 
If I could only choose one light, this would probably be it.


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## BriteLite2 (Oct 17, 2016)

I think there definitely is

I carry an E01 every day!!!

and by seeing titanium AAA lights with 3 and 5mm leds still selling like hotcakes for $200 plus I would say there is definitely still demand for them .


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## lampeDépêche (Oct 17, 2016)

eh4 said:


> http://store.yujiintl.com/collections/frontpage/products/bc-series-5mm?variant=962057553
> 
> Expensive shipping though, 19$ for a 15$ order.



Hey! I got some of those, too! I got the 3200k 45-degrees.

The light from these is *outstanding*. It may be my favorite tint of any light I have (including several Nichia 219b and 219cs). It's like pouring warm caramel on top of the colors--everything looks rich and warm and golden. It's probably not for everyone, and perhaps not for all applications. But for indoor light, it is *gorgeous*, and certainly as good as anything coming out from Cree or Nichia.

I have retrofitted all of my Photon Coverts with them (which just means bending the legs a bit). 

Now the problem is: I still have about 95 of the things which I don't need. I wish there was an easy and cheap way to mail one to each of you, because they are just sitting idle on my bench.


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## eh4 (Oct 17, 2016)

-self addressed, stamped envelopes?


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## carrot (Oct 17, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Hey! I got some of those, too! I got the 3200k 45-degrees.
> 
> The light from these is *outstanding*. It may be my favorite tint of any light I have (including several Nichia 219b and 219cs). It's like pouring warm caramel on top of the colors--everything looks rich and warm and golden. It's probably not for everyone, and perhaps not for all applications. But for indoor light, it is *gorgeous*, and certainly as good as anything coming out from Cree or Nichia.
> 
> ...



I'd love to buy a handful of these. I have a bunch of Nitecore Tubes that have been awaiting the right LEDs.

Edit: Oh hey, 9000 posts! Any more posts after this are going to be OVER 9000 woohoo!


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## lampeDépêche (Oct 17, 2016)

eh4 said:


> -self addressed, stamped envelopes?



Sure!

PM me, send me an SASE, and I'll send you back 5 of them. No cost. (5 of them because a few may get damaged in shipping--I'm not going to do *anything* to package them, just drop them into whatever envelope you send me. If you want padding, then send me a padded envelope!)

I'm not trying to take sales away from Yuji Int'l--if you want large volumes, then they are the people. But I can help out about 15-18 of you, and you are probably the people who weren't going to buy 100 of them anyhow.


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## iamlucky13 (Oct 17, 2016)

I can't imagine Yuji minds. You're filling a very small market they're not positioned to supply. Even if they did object, your ability to resell products you own in the US is legally protected, so they effectively accepted that when they decided to sell to US customers.

Maybe at some point Mouser or Newark will add them to their lineup, or perhaps a hobby outlet like Mountain Electronics. I'd think they could repackage them into 5-10 emitter bags to sell for maybe $5 a bag.

What intrigues me most about Yuji is their 93-95 CRI BC series is apparently their *low* CRI product. Their 95-98 CRI VTC series are a significantly different product. Where as every other white LED I've seen is based on a 450nm blue diode under the phosphor, Yuji's VCT emitters have a ~400nm violet diode under the phosphor.

It does hurt their efficiency a bit, but as far as I know, nobody else has topped 95 CRI in an LED, so if you really, truly want the best, Yuji wins.


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## iamlucky13 (Oct 17, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> I have retrofitted all of my Photon Coverts with them (which just means bending the legs a bit).



Now you've got me thinking I need to look at how much work it might be to convert my neglected Inova microlight.



carrot said:


> I'd love to buy a handful of these. I have a bunch of Nitecore Tubes that have been awaiting the right LEDs.



I'm not sure the Yuji BC 5mm series can match that application. The Tube is a 45 lumen light. The BC datasheet says they're rated for 6.1-8 lumens at 20mA, depending on color temp and luck, and have a maximum current rating of 30mA.

Unless I'm misunderstanding how LED drivers work, the Tube's driver will push 100-150 mA through them on high mode, likely burning them out.


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## lightfooted (Oct 18, 2016)

carrot said:


> I'd love to buy a handful of these. I have a bunch of Nitecore Tubes that have been awaiting the right LEDs.
> 
> Edit: Oh hey, 9000 posts! Any more posts after this are going to be OVER 9000 woohoo!



You realize that almost no one here is going to get that reference? Not without Google anyway.


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## mbw_151 (Oct 21, 2016)

I still love the 5mm LEDs that are in my Photon Freedoms. I carry one almost all the time. It's a contender for my most used light against the bedside HDS. It isn't glamorous, it just works!


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## lampeDépêche (Oct 21, 2016)

I have had 2 people take me up on my offer above--they PM'ed me for my address, and tell me that they are sending me an envelope. 

After I give them 5 LEDs each, then I will still have about 80 of these beautiful Hi CRI 5mm LEDs sitting around looking for a good home. 

So send me an envelope, and I'll send you some LEDs. Esp. if you love your Photon Freedom--it's the easiest upgrade in the world.

(I can't guarantee it will be brighter, but the tint and CRI are a big improvement.)


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## iamlucky13 (Oct 21, 2016)

FYI, I dug around on the USPS website for info about mailing non-flat letters. They ordinarily charge extra ($0.68 instead of $0.47) for what they call "non-machineable" envelops, which includes lumpy envelops. Might want to double-stamp the return envelop just to be safe.


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## scout24 (Oct 21, 2016)

Lampe- PM sent! These sound too good to pass up, I've got a few Photons around I can play with. Thanks!


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## Lynx_Arc (Oct 21, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> FYI, I dug around on the USPS website for info about mailing non-flat letters. They ordinarily charge extra ($0.68 instead of $0.47) for what they call "non-machineable" envelops, which includes lumpy envelops. Might want to double-stamp the return envelop just to be safe.


I've sent and received various items including LEDs and as long as a padding material is included to flatten out the bulge that LEDs alone would make it should be fine. I've sent swivels in the mail with foam padding that you sometimes get in shipments. I tape the items to a 3x5 card and then tape the foam on both sides of the items and at times I even have taped another card to make a sandwich and mailed it with a single stamp and have never had anything returned to me.


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## lampeDépêche (Oct 21, 2016)

I know I could tape things to cards and add padding and foam and all that, but in fact I won't. I'll just toss 5 LEDs into whatever you send me, and send it right back.

I apologize, but I'm not getting anything for this and I don't want it to use up much of my time.


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## KITROBASKIN (Oct 21, 2016)

No need to apologize. A person can send whatever padding, lining in the self addressed, stamped envelope in the first place. 

This is a gracious gesture within our special community. THANKS!


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 2, 2016)

Wow! I received 5 Yuji 3200K Hi CRI LED's from lampeDepeche today. Great fun and very doable to retrofit the iconic Photon squeeze flashlights with these excellent color rendering emitters. There is one mystery though, that I am hoping a member can enlighten us on. Right now a video that I made is uploading to YouTube. If I do not get to posting the link tonight, it will happen tomorrow. Thank You Thank YOU lampeDepeche. I understand you still have some of these LED's and are willing to send out in a self addressed, stamped envelope to other members: Really nice of you to do this.


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 2, 2016)

OK here's the link for the LED upgrade to the Photon. Sorry it is 11 minutes plus, couldn't help myself. There are old and new (simple) beam views, with the Nitecore Tube and TIP CRI making a guest appearance. These Photons span more than 30 years, all continue to function and now have a new lease on life with the way of high CRI...

http://youtu.be/botDJE-dFCs


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## RobertMM (Nov 2, 2016)

KITROBASKIN, maybe 6V is killing the LED that's why it is dimmer than those run at 3V? Can't be good for it, being rated 2.8-2.9Vf.


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## scout24 (Nov 2, 2016)

Mine arrived the other day, I haven't done anything with them yet sadly. Thanks again, Lampe!


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## phosphor22 (Nov 2, 2016)

Mine arrived as well - thank you again lampeDépêche for your generosity in sharing these - I appreciate it very much.
I will be determining which light to try them in first - looking very forward to seeing this lovely tint in action!


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## lampeDépêche (Nov 2, 2016)

Kitro, Scout, Phosphor, glad that all of you got your LEDs! I still have plenty to give away.


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 3, 2016)

Brief update: It may be, as RobertMM wrote, that the 6 volts did something to the LED, causing it to be dimmer. I did not notice a flash or anything un-towards during the modification but the act of initially installing the battery could have done the deed. I took out the two 2016 lithium batteries and was able to successfully use a single 2032 battery but it was still much dimmer than the other LEDs. Then I put another new emitter in that Photon II with the single, 3 volt 2032 battery and it was as bright as the other modified light. 

It is an interesting project and am grateful to finally be able to try out a 3200K Hi CRI flashlight.

Also, I did remove the cap from one of the Freedom Photons to see about changing to this LED: Too many unknowns. Would a single 3 volt battery perform with the Freedom circuitry and the space allowed for the battery? The fit of the board and LED inside the housing are much more involved with the bends on the LED leads looking to have more critical tolerances. Not going there.

The Yuji Photon II is on my keychain. Pretty floody, even cast, just fine for close range. Interestingly, the dim LED (I put it in the ~35 year old Photon) is very good for fully dark adapted eyes on those night-stumbles to a bladder-evacuation site, though the normal Yuji emitter is functional as well.


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## Enderman (Nov 3, 2016)

I really like how some mm LEDs project a focused spot, rather than a large flood like the chip LEDs.
This would be great for aspheric flashlights since all the light is focused forward in a pretty tight beam, like 60 degrees or something.
Unfortunately 5mm leds aren't very bright, at least the ones I've seen.
If they could do several hundred lumens that would make a great aspheric thrower flashlight.


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## RobertMM (Nov 4, 2016)

6V probably fried it some but not enough to kill it entirely, well bright side is you can standardize on 2032 cells for all of them and ditch the 2016s


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## lampeDépêche (Nov 4, 2016)

KITROBASKIN said:


> It is an interesting project and am grateful to finally be able to try out a 3200K Hi CRI flashlight.
> 
> Also, I did remove the cap from one of the Freedom Photons to see about changing to this LED: Too many unknowns. Would a single 3 volt battery perform with the Freedom circuitry and the space allowed for the battery? The fit of the board and LED inside the housing are much more involved with the bends on the LED leads looking to have more critical tolerances. Not going there.



Kitro, it's actually pretty easy to put them into the Freedom. The Freedom circuit works with either 3v or 6v--they ship the same circuit both with the Freedom colors that take 2x 2016 (e.g. white and blue) and those that take 1x 2032 (e.g. red and orange). I have used the Yuji LEDs in the Freedom with either battery configuration, or with the rechargeable LR2032 which runs a nominal 3.7.

As far as bending the legs go, close is good enough. Both of them slide into tubes on the back of the circuit board, and so long as they slide in, the light is fine. Go ahead and pop open the plastic cap. Then remove the batteries. Now pull out the circuit board, lifting first on the edge away from the emitter. It will slide backwards and out. Now you can press the LED out the front, by applying pressure to its base from inside the housing (with e.g. a small screwdriver).

Now that you have popped out the old LED, you can use it as a guide for bending the legs on the new one. (Sort out the polarity first before you bend). All you need is a rough double-L-bend or dog-leg. Try mating the LED with the board outside of the housing a few times just to get the hang of it. You can also experiment with different battery configs here too, since it's a bit easier to maneuver things outside the housing.

Then reverse to reassemble: put the LED into the front of the nose, with legs away from the opening. Slide the circuit in, capturing the legs in the tubes as you go. Drop in a battery and you're done.


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## iamlucky13 (Nov 4, 2016)

I keep forgetting to get my envelop in the mail. Sorry about that. I'll send it out.

I'm really glad I checked back to find out about the possible issue with 2xCR2016. That will guide my tinkering with my Microlight.


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## StandardBattery (Nov 6, 2016)

Looks like MassDrop is trying to spread some 5mm Love with offering the 

*Pixel Light Ti*

Looks like a nice light, and a good host for a LED upgrade. They say it is being shipped with Nichia 5mm in Cool White 25 lumens or Warm White 21 Lumens. Unfortunately it runs on multiple LR521 cells.


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## scout24 (Nov 6, 2016)

I would love to run these in an A2 ring, but the voltage would probably kill them...


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## lampeDépêche (Nov 6, 2016)

scout24 said:


> I would love to run these in an A2 ring, but the voltage would probably kill them...



Maybe, maybe not: give it a try and report back!

I sent you the LEDs (I think?). Go ahead and try them out in the A2, and tell us how it works.

If you fry them, I'll send you more (if you send me an envelope).

Your experiments provide benefits to the community as a whole!


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## phosphor22 (Nov 7, 2016)

StandardBattery said:


> Looks like MassDrop is trying to spread some 5mm Love with offering the
> 
> *Pixel Light Ti*
> 
> Looks like a nice light, and a good host for a LED upgrade. They say it is being shipped with Nichia 5mm in Cool White 25 lumens or Warm White 21 Lumens. Unfortunately it runs on multiple LR521 cells.



I have a warm white Pixel and really like this light! The form factor and finish alone are great. I have the first set of batteries still working in mine -- and do use it with some frequency. This high CRI LED would be great too... and since lampeDépêche was kind enough to send me some I think I will probably get a second one and try this out


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## StandardBattery (Nov 7, 2016)

phosphor22 said:


> I have a warm white Pixel and really like this light! The form factor and finish alone are great. I have the first set of batteries still working in mine -- and do use it with some frequency. This high CRI LED would be great too... and since lampeDépêche was kind enough to send me some I think I will probably get a second one and try this out


How long have you been using that first set?


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## phosphor22 (Nov 8, 2016)

I have been using it on and off for a few months. I frequently wear the light on a chain (to me it has a nice rather neutral appearance), and use the light mostly for short bursts -- say, trying to find a light switch in the dark for 5 or 10 seconds. I also purchased the extra battery sets.


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## MKLight (Nov 18, 2016)

Thanks, Lampé! I received your LEDs earlier this week. I was going to put the first LED into an old Photon II. I hadn't tested and cut the wrong prong. I ended up cutting both prongs down and putting into a Freedom. It's brighter than the GS that was originally in it was MUCH dimmer than this LED. Plus yours has MUCH nicer tint...and it works just like stock. Thank you so much for sharing your LEDs!!

Best regards,
MK


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## lampeDépêche (Nov 19, 2016)

MKLight said:


> Thanks, Lampé! ....Best regards, MK



Glad to hear that the LEDs got to you, and that you have a new, Hi CRI Photon Freedom!


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## MKLight (Nov 19, 2016)

Thanks again!


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## iamlucky13 (Nov 29, 2016)

Hey lampeDépêche, mine arrived, all apparently undamaged in the envelop. Many thanks!

My Inova Microlight took all of 5 minutes to mod, 3 minutes of which were spent looking for the nearest screwdriver to pop the rear cover off so I could swap the LED's, and 1.5 minutes deliberating which leg was supposed to go in which terminal (fortunately, the wrong way did not seem to harm the LED).

The tint is exactly as expected - warm and cozy. The beam is fairly wide, which is perfect for up-close use. This was a very worthwhile mod. I'm hoping to figure out similar projects for the remaining emitters. The ugly blue-hued nightlight in the hallway may fall prey some tinkering...

Some related info to add to the thread: I had previously noticed the Microlight's stock emitter had gotten extremely dim on the pair of CR2016's that are in it - barely better than the 0.1 lumen firefly mode on my Armytek headlamp, even though the pair of batteries measured the correct 6.0V. I tried a single CR2032, and the stock emitter got significantly brighter. I repeated the experiment with the new Yuji emitter - same results. It appears after aging for too long, the CR2016 batteries just can't provide enough current to produce meaningful light. Since these Yuji's have a reasonably low forward voltage, however, they seem to work ok with a single CR2032.

I didn't have a convenient way to measure brightness, but I did have a multimeter handy and took some current measurements that can be roughly correlated to brightness.

2 x CR2016 that sat in a drawer for 5+ years with intermittent use (6.07V)
Stock emitter: 0.53 mA
Yuji BC 5mm: 0.57 mA

1 x CR2032 - Moderately used (2.92V)
Stock emitter: 5.1 mA
Yuji BC 5mm: 6.5 mA

1 x CR2032 - New (3.11V)
Stock emitter: 13 mA falling to 10 mA over roughly 30s
Yuji BC: 17 mA falling to 13 mA over roughly 30s

Based on the spec sheet, it looks like the Yuji + Microlight combo was achieving ~6 lumens at turn-on with a new CR2032, stabilizing at ~4 lumens, and around 2 lumens (Maglite Solitaire level) on a used battery.


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## parametrek (Nov 29, 2016)

+1 for the Gerber Infinity Ultra! I really like this light. It is the "AA E01" that people have been asking for, and it can run on AAA too. It just gets everything right. I do want to try modding it with a Yuji 5mm high CRI LED though.


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## lampeDépêche (Nov 29, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> Hey lampeDépêche, mine arrived, all apparently undamaged in the envelop. Many thanks!
> 
> My Inova Microlight took all of 5 minutes to mod....
> 
> The tint is exactly as expected - warm and cozy. The beam is fairly wide, which is perfect for up-close use. This was a very worthwhile mod. I'm hoping to figure out similar projects for the remaining emitters....



That's great to hear, lucky! I'm glad that the emitters got to you, and that you had an easy time swapping them into your old light.

One of you--K2-bk-bl-rd--sent me five Yuji 5600k LEDs in return, so that I can play around with the cooler temp in the same Hi CRI.

And I want to, but: no time!! 

Thanks, K2-bk-bl-rd, I hope to play with those when I get a chance.


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## LeanBurn (Dec 11, 2016)

Do you think one of these LEDs would work in a Dorcy penlight with 2 AAA batteries? I would like to give it a try. 

pm sent to lampeDépêche


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 12, 2016)

LeanBurn said:


> Do you think one of these LEDs would work in a Dorcy penlight with 2 AAA batteries? I would like to give it a try.



I just searched for "Dorcy penlight" and found a $6 model on Home Depot. It says it's a 15 lumen light, which is about twice as bright as the Yuji LED's are nominally rated. I suspect if you did a straight swap, it would slightly overdrive the LED, but it might be able to handle it, especially if you're not using the light for long periods of time. Could be worth risking one to try. I'd be interested to hear how it works out if you do this.

For myself, I'm keeping an eye out for a 1 x AAA regulated light to try to swap one of these into. From what I could find on the Fenix E01, the driver is fully potted, and quite time consuming to mod as a result.

I'm also thinking of matching a Yuji and an appropriate resistor to a USB-plug so I can use a USB power bank as a rechargeable "candle" when the power is out.


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 12, 2016)

The hideous blue nightlight I mentioned above has now gone under the soldering iron. I disconnected one leg and measured 13 mA before the mod, so the power level looks appropriate for the Yuji.

The bad tint had long bothered me, but I hadn't presumed just how bad it was until I used my camera to try to figure out the color temperature and found it so blue dominant that I couldn't get a consistent measurement. The Yuji is also brighter.

Two pictures are worth two thousand words:


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 12, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> Two pictures are worth two thousand words:



Oh, man!!

Those two pictures really do tell the whole story, don't they? 

Lucky13, you are finding all sorts of good ways to use these Yuji LEDs. Makes me glad that I sent you a handful.

LeanBurn, I got your pm; waiting on your SASE.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 12, 2016)

parametrek said:


> +1 for the Gerber Infinity Ultra! I really like this light. It is the "AA E01" that people have been asking for, and it can run on AAA too. It just gets everything right. I do want to try modding it with a Yuji 5mm high CRI LED though.



Hey parametrek,

When you do that, write up the mod, will you? I'm kind of tempted to try it, but I'm not very handy with a soldering iron.


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## StorminMatt (Dec 13, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


>



Kind of odd they would make a night light like this, especially since it is well known that blue light is bad for sleep.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 13, 2016)

StorminMatt said:


> Kind of odd they would make a night light like this, especially since it is well known that blue light is bad for sleep.


Not surprising as most of the cheap LED night lights used to use 5mm LEDs which most of the time were a bluish tint. I have a few cheap LED nightlight bulbs with screw base that replace a 7 watt bulb that are bluish in tint using 5mm LEDs (3 of them) It hasn't been but the last 5 years or so that I've seen warmer colored LED night lights partially because they are adapting SMD LEDs instead of 5mm ones. The main issue I have with the SMD LEDs is too often there is a very warm or very cold color to them (nothing near neutral). Personally the blue night lights are brighter but unless they are in your face not bright enough to keep most folks awake.


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 13, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Oh, man!!
> 
> Those two pictures really do tell the whole story, don't they?
> 
> Lucky13, you are finding all sorts of good ways to use these Yuji LEDs. Makes me glad that I sent you a handful.



Even exaggerates it slightly, as the absolute nature of the camera often does. Seen in isolation, the modified version actually looks a very slightly golden white, just like a halogen lamp.

I've only done two small projects so far. It was nice to have a couple small tinkering projects to distract me from work. I will also be interested to see how it works out if parametrek is able to swap one into a AA light.


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Not surprising as most of the cheap LED night lights used to use 5mm LEDs which most of the time were a bluish tint. I have a few cheap LED nightlight bulbs with screw base that replace a 7 watt bulb that are bluish in tint using 5mm LEDs (3 of them) It hasn't been but the last 5 years or so that I've seen warmer colored LED night lights partially because they are adapting SMD LEDs instead of 5mm ones. The main issue I have with the SMD LEDs is too often there is a very warm or very cold color to them (nothing near neutral). Personally the blue night lights are brighter but unless they are in your face not bright enough to keep most folks awake.



Yep. I bought the night light probably right around 5 years ago when we last moved, and was so shocked at how bad it was I didn't even want to give LED night lights a second chance. I stuck that light where it was seldom needed and kept an incandescent night light in the bedroom. Around this site, when we think cool, we think 6000K or so, but this was effectively off the charts.

After A19 LED bulbs got cheaper and proved quality LED's could be reasonably priced, I finally looked again and saw some labeled "soft white" that are much better. They're probably in the 3000-3500K range.

Since the light above has a motion sensor that is nice for keeping the bedroom dark except when people are actually moving around, I decided to try swapping the emitter for one I knew was high quality, instead of buying a replacement night light and merely hoping. The nice thing about 5mm LED's is they're relatively easy to work with.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 13, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> Yep. I bought the night light probably right around 5 years ago when we last moved, and was so shocked at how bad it was I didn't even want to give LED night lights a second chance. I stuck that light where it was seldom needed and kept an incandescent night light in the bedroom. Around this site, when we think cool, we think 6000K or so, but this was effectively off the charts.
> 
> After A19 LED bulbs got cheaper and proved quality LED's could be reasonably priced, I finally looked again and saw some labeled "soft white" that are much better. They're probably in the 3000-3500K range.
> 
> Since the light above has a motion sensor that is nice for keeping the bedroom dark except when people are actually moving around, I decided to try swapping the emitter for one I knew was high quality, instead of buying a replacement night light and merely hoping. The nice thing about 5mm LED's is they're relatively easy to work with.


I agree that 5mm LEDs are often user serviceable I've upgraded/replaced a dozen or more of them over the years. The trend now is all but doing away with 5mm white LEDs for SMD board mounted LEDs in almost everything except the cheapest lights and the disadvantage is that SMD LEDs are hard to replace for most folks requiring special tools. I prefer the quality/color/output of SMD LEDs over 5mm mainly due to not having the blotchy tinted quality of output. I have a couple of dozen 5mm LEDs still including a few Nichias and Crees. I bought several 5mm LED based nightlight bulbs when Walgreens had them for $4 a pair now you can't find them for but twice that in stores. 
If you have some extra USB AC adapters you could buy some USB LED boards and use them for nightlights, including using warm white ones and dimmable ones and there is even a board that has a light sensor on it that you can adjust the sensitivity.

With a few more adapters you can buy a dimming control and use it with USB lights. It doesn't go super dim but does go low enough to conserve power.


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## LeanBurn (Dec 13, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> I just searched for "Dorcy penlight" and found a $6 model on Home Depot. It says it's a 15 lumen light, which is about twice as bright as the Yuji LED's are nominally rated. I suspect if you did a straight swap, it would slightly overdrive the LED, but it might be able to handle it, especially if you're not using the light for long periods of time. Could be worth risking one to try. I'd be interested to hear how it works out if you do this...



I am not worried at all. The Nichia 5mm (Low CRI) that is currently in there has a rating of 15 Lumen @ 3V. Once I get the Yuji CRI 95 LED in there it will be 7 or 8 Lumens @ 3V. The LED has a forward voltage of up to 3.1V so it will be good.
From what I have seen, the higher the CRI on the LED, the less efficient it is in overall output. That is the trade-off for the higher CRI I suppose. Just like the comparison between identical models neutral white vs cool white, the NW output always seems to be down ~10% in comparison, but those that prefer it find it worth it.

I'll report back on this mod once it is performed...if its favorable, I may be scouring around looking for old school 5mm to swap just because..


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## NutSAK (Dec 13, 2016)

My SS McKinley w/snow white Nichias still gets the occasional love:


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## Hondo (Dec 13, 2016)

Wow, glad I poked around and found your cool thread, carrot! I've got two months to catch up on - hang on:

I'm still a 5 mm junkie, not that I don't use the latest stuff too. Around the house I might have a modded Dorcy AAA Gen II (remember those?), Gerber Infinity Ultra or Sonic, Arc AAA, or Fenix E0 (no, not E01, but I've got those too - the E0 was the original, and smaller) in my pocket. My X5 is loaded and ready, as are several coin lights, Photon Freedom on CR2032, and an Inova Microlight in my coat now. I NEVER sleep without my Nichia DS modded SafeLight Superbright (Handyman) next to the bed (RIP James, and the PAL/SafeLight line). Sometimes I just use a 9V with my own cap made from a DS and a 22,000 Ohm resistor, potted in hot glue.

But my grab light in the kitchen and the bottom of the basement stairs is usually a cheap plastic 2xAA light with a PR2 conversion bulb. The MJLED cut and polished 5 mm LED's, and low forward voltage were great either in these boost-circuit bulbs, creating a dynamite beam, especially from the faceted reflectors, or direct drive off of two AA alkalines. I made a few of these by busting the guts from incan bulbs and soldering in the MJLED. All-time run-time king? The Eveready Industrial 2-D, with a direct drive MJLED mod, and the boost-circuit bulb in the spare holder inside the head for when it gets too dim in DD. Those 84-cent Walmart lights from 10 years ago were awesome for this, or for "big-bucks" the Eveready industrial AA, when they were incan. Also a neat drop-in to the Mini-Mag with a little reflector drilling - just trim the legs, and plug the LED directly into the bulb pin holes.

Lots of good headlamps, but I'll just give props to the one I use most, the Icon Irix II with the brightness dial - best interface possible - and on 1 AA to boot.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 13, 2016)

This thread asks, "Any love left for 5mm LEDs?", and Hondo's answer is "YES! A LOT!".

Great stuff. I got your PM, and look forward to sending you some Yuji's to play with. 

I still have enough for one or two more takers--then I'll be all through with the 100 that I bought. 

It cost me maybe $30.00 (half of it shipping!), but it has turned out to be lot of fun to spread the wealth.


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## LeanBurn (Dec 13, 2016)

Envelope with money sent lampeDépêche


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 14, 2016)

LeanBurn said:


> Envelope with money sent lampeDépêche



Thanks, LeanBurn!

Sorry that I had to ask you for the $2.00 Canadian in order to cover the stamps back to you. If you put Canadian stamps on your SASE, I cannot send them from the States. 

(Not sure why that is, given that the US Postal service will carry a letter with Canadian stamps once it has crossed the border coming to me. I guess it's a matter of bookkeeping, all worked out in postal treaties.)


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## LeanBurn (Dec 14, 2016)

Not a problem at all. Thanks for the chance to mod something entirely unique.


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## parametrek (Dec 14, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Hey parametrek,
> 
> When you do that, write up the mod, will you? I'm kind of tempted to try it, but I'm not very handy with a soldering iron.



Of course. Still trying to figure out how to get it open safely though. And I've heard the guts are potted, so that'll make the project even more fun. And need to do some run time testing too...


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## Hondo (Dec 14, 2016)

I've done the Gerber Infinity Ultra, and it is not potted like the old CMG's were. Yank clip straight off, don't slide it or it will make a mess of the finish. Heat the head joint to soften the adhesive and unscrew. I use a bunch of rubber bands around the head for better grip. Real easy from there. I find it is not worth taking the old LED from the board, I just cut the legs in the middle and solder the legs of the new one to the old leg stubs, way easier.


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## Mr. Shawn (Dec 17, 2016)

Hondo said:


> Lots of good headlamps, but I'll just give props to the one I use most, the Icon Irix II with the brightness dial - best interface possible - and on 1 AA to boot.



I agree, Hondo. I have been using both the Irix I and II models consistently the past 3 years, and they have both sufficiently met my needs in a headlamp, especially since they both use only 1AA battery. However, I decided to upgrade my headlamp and just received a ThruNite TH20 headlamp, which I am extremely pleased with, but I will continue using my Icon headlamps when the need arises.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 17, 2016)

Hondo said:


> I've done the Gerber Infinity Ultra, and it is not potted like the old CMG's were. Yank clip straight off, don't slide it or it will make a mess of the finish. Heat the head joint to soften the adhesive and unscrew. I use a bunch of rubber bands around the head for better grip. Real easy from there. I find it is not worth taking the old LED from the board, I just cut the legs in the middle and solder the legs of the new one to the old leg stubs, way easier.



Thank you, Hondo! This inspired me to do my first-ever emitter-swap last night, on a Gerber Infinity Ultra.

I used a pair of strap-wrenches to twist off the head and it came very easily with no heating at all. The soldering was within my very limited capabilities, though I think any artist who saw the burn-marks on the board would be appalled.

I put in a 5600k Yuji Hi CRI sent to me by member "K2-bk-bl-rd", who sent me five of those for the five 3200k Yujis that I sent to him or her. The 5600ks do not have the same rich honey-dipped incan look that the 3200k do, but they give more output of course, and I want this light for a back-up in my daybag, so I wanted more of an all-purpose beam.

It is a *huge* improvement over the narrow purple spot that Gerber used. That was one ugly LED!

Now I wish I knew more about the efficiency of the Gerber driver.

Is there any other single-cell AA light that uses a 5mm LED? Aside from the almost mythical ARC-AA, and a few rarities like that.

Two final thoughts:
1) Thanks to K2-bk-bl-rd! I don't see him or her post around on threads much, but it was nice of them to swap me a few 5600k LEDS for the 3200 LEDS I sent.
2) I have been interested to correspond with several members when I am sending them free LEDs, and find out that they are women. (I have no reason to think that K2-bk-bl-rd is one of them). There are more women on this forum than most of you probably realize. Women love high-quality lights, too, they just probably hide behind a neutral 'nym in order not to get hassled. Next time you're writing a post or a comment, keep in mind that it's not all guys on this forum, however much the loud-mouths may make it sound that way.


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## K2-bk-bl-rd (Dec 17, 2016)

My name is Joshua, so pretty easy to figure from there! Glad to swap some LED's with you. I've been a member for almost 9 years, but I admit I spend most of my time reading threads. I am curious about those gerber lights. I may have to pick one up, to use one of the 3200k leds in. If anyone else wants a few 5600k led's I'd be will to let a few more go.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 17, 2016)

Here's a throw-back to when 5mm's were king: 

The HDS Systems "Action-Light" headlamp, featuring a hexagonal array of *24* 5mm LEDs on a headlamp run from a Lithium D-cell:

http://www.hdssystems.com/Products/Legacy/Action2/ActionLightAIOCC.php

I never had one of these, but I thought it was cool as all get out. The lithium D-cell seemed like a great idea, and the idea that it could run for 700 hours amazed me. (Of course, now a Zebralight will get almost that much from an alkaline AA cell). 

Given what we have now, this looks bulky and inefficient, and a light temperature of 6500k would not please me. But in 2000, it looked truly amazing. And all of those 5mm LEDs!


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## NutSAK (Dec 19, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Now I wish I knew more about the efficiency of the Gerber driver.



Here's a good old thread that you might be interested in: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...light-Inova-X1-(new)-or-Gerber-Infinity-Ultra

Wow, has it really been 10 years since we participated in that thread?  Take note of the difference in runtimes alkaline vs. lithium, due to the difference in the curves (lithium with a flatter curve, and higher current).

Also, here's a great old Hondo GIU mod thread from 11 years ago: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho...inity-mod-step-by-step&highlight=infinity mod


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 19, 2016)

Thanks for that thread-link, NutSAK!

Question for you electronics experts: when I switch out the LED, how much does that affect run-time? 

I could imagine two answers:

A) no effect: the driver outputs the same current, and it is up to the LED to make more or less light with it. 
B) some effect: the driver responds to the load on it, so if the new LED draws more (or less) current, then the runtime will drop (or extend).

I switched from whatever the stock purple spotty monster is, to a 5600k Hi CRI Yuji that was sent to me by K2-bk-bl-rd. Here are the specs from the Yujiintl website:

Nominal Wattage: 0.06 W 
Rated current: 20 mA 
Forward Voltage: 2.7 - 3.1 V 
Luminous Flux(5600K): 6.6 - 8.0 lm

Since it says it puts out about 8 lumens, and the Gerber claims to put out 8 lumens as well, then maybe it's about the same power consumption, and so the same runtime? Maybe?


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 19, 2016)

That thread also touched on the great Gerber vs. CMG controversy: whose Infinity is better?

I had a CMG for a while, and now i have the Gerber I just modded. Even aside from the ease of modding, there are two things I prefer about the Gerber:
1) The tail-cap does a very good imitation of a push-button momentary on when you twist it almost on and back off 1/8 of a turn;
2) The CMG was a battery-crusher, with no springs. That also means it was *not* a good choice for using AAAs in a pinch--you'd need some sort of extender/converter. The Gerber has the springs on both ends, which means that it eats AAAs right away, without needing any modification or addition. In a backup light, that's a very good feature! 

But I know a lot of people loved the old CMG and its tank-like build. I did too. On the whole, though, I think I'm going to prefer the Gerber.


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## NutSAK (Dec 19, 2016)

Unfortunately, you would really have to know how much current the Yuji pulls in the circuit to determine how it has affected runtime.

Or, you could compare the current at the tailcap on a stock vs. modded light.


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## NutSAK (Dec 19, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> That thread also touched on the great Gerber vs. CMG controversy: whose Infinity is better?
> 
> I had a CMG for a while, and now i have the Gerber I just modded. Even aside from the ease of modding, there are two things I prefer about the Gerber:
> 1) The tail-cap does a very good imitation of a push-button momentary on when you twist it almost on and back off 1/8 of a turn;
> ...



Yes, you pretty well covered my thoughts, as you saw in that old thread, plus the tail-stand ability of the Gerber, while still maintaining a lanyard hole. There's no doubt that the CMGs were pretty much indestructible, and that's really the only advantage they had over the less robust (but still very good) built Gerber, IMO.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 19, 2016)

Yeah, I suspect that even the less-robust Gerber would do pretty well in run4jc's AAA demolition derby challenge. 

If only I had a rock tumbler....


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 19, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Thanks for that thread-link, NutSAK!
> 
> Question for you electronics experts: when I switch out the LED, how much does that affect run-time?
> 
> ...



If the Vf is lower then more current will flow and runtime will drop with higher light output. If the light is regulated then there is 2 more things to consider 
1)voltage regulation means higher current to lower Vf LED along with higher output of light
2)current regulation means same current to lower Vf LED but output will increase due to higher lumens/watt (more efficent LED). 

Typically if the LED is not regulated you will see runtime about the same with more runtime that is useful at lower levels of output as the more efficient LED will output more light with less power (and lower voltage).


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 19, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> If the Vf is lower then more current will flow and runtime will drop with higher light output. If the light is regulated then there is 2 more things to consider
> 1)voltage regulation means higher current to lower Vf LED along with higher output of light
> 2)current regulation means same current to lower Vf LED but output will increase due to higher lumens/watt (more efficent LED).
> 
> Typically if the LED is not regulated you will see runtime about the same with more runtime that is useful at lower levels of output as the more efficient LED will output more light with less power (and lower voltage).



Thanks for this!

The trouble is that I do not have the relevant figures for the *old* LED, i.e. the one that Gerber stocks. (And I gather that they have stocked different emitters over the years). I can say that their current 5mm is a fairly ugly bluish-purple with a very narrow angle--design to be impressively throwy, but not at all to my taste.

I don't know whether the Gerber's driver is regulated at all, much less do I know whether it is current-regulated or voltage-regulated. Sorry--just ignorance on my part.

If we operate on the assumption that they did the cheapest thing, I'm guessing that we won't go too far wrong....


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 19, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> The trouble is that I do not have the relevant figures for the *old* LED, i.e. the one that Gerber stocks. (And I gather that they have stocked different emitters over the years). I can say that their current 5mm is a fairly ugly bluish-purple with a very narrow angle--design to be impressively throwy, but not at all to my taste.
> 
> ...


I seriously doubt their driver is regulated as Gerber lights were around the time of the first mag LEDs nothing was regulated in the boost category that I've heard of. I'm betting the LED in those lights were about half to 1/3 as efficient as LEDs made today so at the same power you should see about 50% more output or so.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 19, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I seriously doubt their driver is regulated as Gerber lights were around the time of the first mag LEDs nothing was regulated in the boost category that I've heard of.



Agreed. I'm sure they used whatever was cheapest back then, and they have had no incentive to upgrade it since then.



Lynx_Arc said:


> I'm betting the LED in those lights were about half to 1/3 as efficient as LEDs made today so at the same power you should see about 50% more output or so.



Interesting. The Yuji certainly *looks* significantly brighter, but then it's always hard to compare emitters with very different characteristics--the stock is a purplish-blue spot with a 15-degree angle, whereas the Yuji is a 5600k Hi CRI with a 60-degree angle. But this does not tell us about run-time, right? More efficient = more light from the same power, so putting out more light does not necessarily mean that it is drawing more power (and shortening the run-time). 

One thing I will say about the old Gerber circuit is that it starts up on a pretty low voltage--it will fire up on a cell that reads a constant 0.65v.

Now, personally I think the whole "joule-thief" issue is over-rated. By the time a cell reads less than 1.0v, it has lost about 95% of its energy, and there are only crumbs left. I would much rather have a light that makes efficient use of the first 95% of the cell's energy, than have a light that can use the crumbs but wastes most of the loaf. 

It's like: I'd rather have a car that gets 50mpg with a 10 gallon tank, even if it leaves a cup of fuel unburned, rather than a car that burns every last teaspoon in the tank, but gets 10mpg. After I have driven 495 miles on a tank, there's some "joule-thief" guy yammering about how his car could burn that last cup in my tank--but he is 395 miles behind me somewhere, and I can't hear him.

So in general, I'd much rather have the Zebralight, which won't start up with a cell reading below 0.9v or so, but has incredible efficiency above that range. It will put out *far* more light on a fresh cell than the Gerber will, and who cares about the crumbs.

Still, there is something kind of fun about seeing the Gerber fire up on cells that won't light up the ZL, and there is room for both kinds of circuits in a flashoholic's kit.


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 19, 2016)

I agree that trying to squeeze energy out of an alkaline below 1V is not a compelling concern. Still, there's some devices that stop working well on alkalines above 1V, but don't get enough use to justify NiMH. Having an emergency light that can also act as a vampire for those cells is very intriguing.

Variations in forward voltage will have a small to moderate effect on brightness and runtime for a non-regulated light, but I would not expect radical changes.

My dream application for one of these Yuji's is a Fenix E01, due not as much to its reputation for low-voltage performance as for its excellent output regulation. The fully potted driver and small size around which to maneuver a soldering iron have me spooked, though.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 20, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Agreed. I'm sure they used whatever was cheapest back then, and they have had no incentive to upgrade it since then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think you will see much change in runtime if you run it down to nothing. Back in the days prior to eneloops where you had to buy alkalines for lights unless you used 123s runtime meant a lot more but now LEDs are 3-5 times more efficient with better drivers you don't need to worry about joule thiefs as you run stuff on eneloops and recharge them. Battery technology from the days of the gerbers fame has pretty much made it a waste of time to suck an alkaline down to 0.5v or less it just takes way too long to bother with such a dim output when you have more batteries charged and ready to go. I had a stock of alkalines even when I got a bunch of nimh batteries because I didn't like to constantly charge them every month to make sure they were pretty full of power. I still have an old dorcy AAA...... it sucks battery down to less than 0.7v and I have 1 cell pr led bulbs I can put in a 2 cell light and throw 2 almost dead batteries in it and run them down to 0.3v or so if I wanted to but with a dozen extra eneloop AAs and a box full of 18650 laptop pulls and a charger that runs off USB or AC that can charge an eneloop at a time if needed. 
To put it simply alkalines are no longer the "go to" and we get insane amounts of runtimes off LED lights that draining leaking batteries to nothing to save a fraction of a cents worth of power is a futile venture. If I truly needed to do that I would instead invest in a cheap solar cell able to run a charger to charge a single battery in a day so draining a battery to less than nothing is not needed.... ever.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 20, 2016)

iamlucky13 said:


> I agree that trying to squeeze energy out of an alkaline below 1V is not a compelling concern. Still, there's some devices that stop working well on alkalines above 1V, but don't get enough use to justify NiMH. Having an emergency light that can also act as a vampire for those cells is very intriguing.
> 
> Variations in forward voltage will have a small to moderate effect on brightness and runtime for a non-regulated light, but I would not expect radical changes.
> 
> My dream application for one of these Yuji's is a Fenix E01, due not as much to its reputation for low-voltage performance as for its excellent output regulation. The fully potted driver and small size around which to maneuver a soldering iron have me spooked, though.



I've replaced a few 5mm with Cree 5mm they are still a little blue but a lot whiter that the normal white 5mms plus they have a wonderful beam to them and can be safely driven hard if needed without reducing their lifetime dramatically. I still have some 26kmcd LEDs that are closer to warm white but they have a lower vf than usual and are more succeptible to wearing out at normal to high currents.
I've heard the E01 is a tough one to replace the LED in. I have some cheap arc 5mm clone LED lights that would probably be easier to fiddle with but they are cheap quality. My advice is to invest in a AAA LED light with a firefly mode and pay a little more and forget the battery drainage bit.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 20, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> To put it simply alkalines are no longer the "go to" and we get insane amounts of runtimes off LED lights that draining leaking batteries to nothing to save a fraction of a cents worth of power is a futile venture. If I truly needed to do that I would instead invest in a cheap solar cell able to run a charger to charge a single battery in a day so draining a battery to less than nothing is not needed.... ever.



Totally agree. In ordinary usage, I have plenty of rechargeables at hand, and I don't have the patience to work with a dim light, just so that it can use up the last crumbs in an alkaline cell. Enough of this 2-lumen nonsense: get me a fresh NiMH and my ZL can turn that into 250 lumens of light!

Still, I don't mind having *one* backup light in my kit that can scavenge cells when I don't have my rechargeable set-up available. I think I'm agreeing with Lucky13 that "_Having an emergency light that can also act as a vampire for those cells_" is a nice idea, too.

Like I said, there's enough room in a flashoholic's kit for several different kinds of drivers.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 20, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Totally agree. In ordinary usage, I have plenty of rechargeables at hand, and I don't have the patience to work with a dim light, just so that it can use up the last crumbs in an alkaline cell. Enough of this 2-lumen nonsense: get me a fresh NiMH and my ZL can turn that into 250 lumens of light!
> 
> Still, I don't mind having *one* backup light in my kit that can scavenge cells when I don't have my rechargeable set-up available. I think I'm agreeing with Lucky13 that "_Having an emergency light that can also act as a vampire for those cells_" is a nice idea, too.
> 
> Like I said, there's enough room in a flashoholic's kit for several different kinds of drivers.



I think for most of us flashaholics a battery vampire is unneeded when you have lights with uber low modes most battery vampires start at a high mode for 5mm about 20ma while a low mode light can start at a few ma and run so long at that level it matters none if it can eek out an extra 5% of the cell down to half a volt or so when the light runs for a hundred hours.
A long time ago before luxeons were commonplace and cheap lights with them were obtainable I scavenged a 5mm LED from a cheap flashlight I got for $1 and hooked it up to a variable resistor and an assortment of test leads and battery holders and would drain batteries down to zero volts under the load of the single LED. I drained dozens of alkalines and ran that thing night and day and it ran for months on ends draining every battery I had for everything and in the end I had my fill of battery vamirication. I've now found the best battery vampire there is an 18650 power bank that can handle dimmable LED modules. The modules can be dimmed down to where they draw about 0.5ma run for weeks at that level no messy alkalines or battery swapping when one power bank shuts off you swap the module into other power banks. This does away with alkalines and swapping AAs in and out of stuff and you can put a charge on your phone with one or even run a fan or whatever.


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## NutSAK (Dec 20, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I think for most of us flashaholics a battery vampire is unneeded when you have lights with uber low modes




I guess I'm oldskool when it comes to battery vampires, and still use them every day. 

Most of my daily flashlight use is powered by NiMh/Li-Ion. However, I store lithium primaries for long-term emergencies, and these must be used at some point before their shelf life expires. So, I use those primaries as backups to NiMH/Li-Ion cells in my EDC lights. Once one is used as a backup, it is run down and another fresh primary takes its place as backup, and the secondary goes back into use in the light...and the cycle continues. Once those primaries are spent in my EDC light, they are used for moonlight mode around the house at night in my battery vampires until they literally can supply no more current.

The vampires I use typically have 5mm LEDs and a long runtime "tail" after the circuit can no longer regulate, so that is how this post relates to the topic. ;-) These types of lights are great for long-term emergencies and, IMO, have a place for use in everyone's collection.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 20, 2016)

I have had an Ark-P AAA on my keys for years, It`s a bit scratched but works fine.

I just bought 5x Energizer 2xAA Magnetic Flashlight`s that use an 5mm led and are quite bright with a magnifying lens, I am going to give them out to my close friends and family.

I bought a couple of those cheap made in china 100 5mm led flashlights, what was i thinking.

John.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 20, 2016)

NutSAK said:


> I guess I'm oldskool when it comes to battery vampires, and still use them every day.
> 
> Most of my daily flashlight use is powered by NiMh/Li-Ion. However, I store lithium primaries for long-term emergencies, and these must be used at some point before their shelf life expires. So, I use those primaries as backups to NiMH/Li-Ion cells in my EDC lights. Once one is used as a backup, it is run down and another fresh primary takes its place as backup, and the secondary goes back into use in the light...and the cycle continues. Once those primaries are spent in my EDC light, they are used for moonlight mode around the house at night in my battery vampires until they literally can supply no more current.
> 
> The vampires I use typically have 5mm LEDs and a long runtime "tail" after the circuit can no longer regulate, so that is how this post relates to the topic. ;-) These types of lights are great for long-term emergencies and, IMO, have a place for use in everyone's collection.


I think you would probably be surprised that lithium primaries don't just go kaput when they hit the expire date they keep slowly losing capacity about the same rate as before such that 10 years later they are still good but may have lost another 10% capacity or so having to cycle through them to use them before they expire isn't needed the same as alkalines which have a tendency to leak prior to their expiration even.


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## gurdygurds (Dec 20, 2016)

I have a deep deep love for the Fenix E01. It's a deep love.......it's so deep. It's the light that started it all for me and it still gets a lot of use. Last night I put away my lights with firefly\moon modes and used my sanded led E01 and a chapstick diffuser with electrical taped sides as my middle of the night light. Worked just the same. Thinking of doing another E01 challenge after perusing some old E01 threads today. Back to basics is good now and again. I love you E01.....and so does Mcnair55. He just doesn't realize it yet.


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## NutSAK (Dec 20, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I think you would probably be surprised that lithium primaries don't just go kaput when they hit the expire date they keep slowly losing capacity about the same rate as before such that 10 years later they are still good but may have lost another 10% capacity or so having to cycle through them to use them before they expire isn't needed the same as alkalines which have a tendency to leak prior to their expiration even.



I'm fully aware of that and therefore no, I'm not surprised at all. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm not familiar with battery chemistry. Note I said "shelf life" not "expiration date". I disagree with you that they don't need to be cycled through, because I would rather that I have a stock of fresh cells on hand. 80% capacity is not a fresh cell. If you're happy storing degraded cells and not using devices that will fully deplete them that is your prerogative but, as I explained, that is not my intention.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 20, 2016)

I remembered i had an Fenix 5mm AAA flashlight, I though it was an E01, But i just checked it is an E0 i remember replacing the led, for a better one.



> The Fenix E0 affectionly known as "Dart" is a single cell AAA flashlight powering a 5mm Nichia LED. The flashlight is designed for runtime and usability and not to be a bright white wall hunt



John.


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## LeanBurn (Dec 20, 2016)

gurdygurds said:


> I have a deep deep love for the Fenix E01. It's a deep love.......it's so deep. It's the light that started it all for me and it still gets a lot of use. Last night I put away my lights with firefly\moon modes and used my sanded led E01 and a chapstick diffuser with electrical taped sides as my middle of the night light. Worked just the same. Thinking of doing another E01 challenge after perusing some old E01 threads today. Back to basics is good now and again. I love you E01.....and so does Mcnair55. He just doesn't realize it yet.



Its too bad you couldn't put a Yuji 95CRI 5mm LED in a E01...it would be the quintessential light of all time.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 20, 2016)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I remembered i had an Fenix 5mm AAA flashlight, I though it was an E01, But i just checked it is an E0 i remember replacing the led, for a better one.
> 
> 
> 
> John.


I have an E0 that was given to me by a cpf member on some giveaway long ago and it has an angry blue tint to it so I never used it I should swap the LED out I guess you have to press the whole pill out from the front.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 20, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I have an E0 that was given to me by a cpf member on some giveaway long ago and it has an angry blue tint to it so I never used it I should swap the LED out I guess you have to press the whole pill out from the front.



Yeah, I think that`s all i had to do really easy.

John.


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 20, 2016)

It seems Nitecore still has plenty of 5mm love left. On the heels of the Nu10, the Nu30 was just announced (hat tip to tanmoy88 for sharing in the headlamp section):
http://flashlight.nitecore.com/product/nu30

XP-G2 primary emitter, but four of what looks like 5mm LED's flanking it. Two provide a red light mode, and two provide a high CRI, medium output mode.


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## Hondo (Dec 20, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I have an E0 that was given to me by a cpf member on some giveaway long ago and it has an angry blue tint to it so I never used it I should swap the LED out I guess you have to press the whole pill out from the front.



Yup, there is a bit of what looks like Arctic Alumina epoxy in there, but not really potted. I put a dowel against the LED and smacked it on the bench to bust the pill out. Much easier to mod the E0 than the E01. And I like the tiny size of the E0 better, too.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 20, 2016)

gurdygurds said:


> I have a deep deep love for the Fenix E01. It's a deep love.......it's so deep. It's the light that started it all for me and it still gets a lot of use. Last night I put away my lights with firefly\moon modes and used my sanded led E01 and a chapstick diffuser with electrical taped sides as my middle of the night light. Worked just the same. Thinking of doing another E01 challenge after perusing some old E01 threads today. Back to basics is good now and again. I love you E01.....and so does Mcnair55. He just doesn't realize it yet.



See, this fascinates me, because so many people feel this way about the E01. Is there any equivalent AA light in 5mm that causes the same degree of devotion? Any competitor to the Gerber UI?

I mean: I love my ZL H52w this same way. It's the light I will never be without. But I know it is not as bombproof as an E01, or the Gerber UI.

Isn't that part of the reason that 5mm LEDs still have fans? They have a solid-state optic. The ZL's neutral XML is a far better LED in ten different ways, but it needs a lens on top of it for protection. And if you run the ZL through a rock-tumbler, or smack it into concrete 20 times, that lens is going to break and expose the emitter to harm. Whereas the 5mm just keeps on working.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 20, 2016)

Hondo said:


> Yup, there is a bit of what looks like Arctic Alumina epoxy in there, but not really potted. I put a dowel against the LED and smacked it on the bench to bust the pill out. Much easier to mod the E0 than the E01. And I like the tiny size of the E0 better, too.


you are tempting me to get the surgeon's gloves on and do it.....


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## gurdygurds (Dec 20, 2016)

I think really SIMPLY designed products that just WORK draw people in and in my case draw me BACK in. I've got lights with multi-levels, and strobes, and flashy modes, and clicky switches, and all that. But sometimes I feel the pull of the most simple light I have in the drawer. The fact that they don't look bad, have a great feed in the hand and silky smooth threads begging for one-handed use doesn't hurt either. I throw mine around for fun sometimes just to delight in their inherent toughness.


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## archimedes (Dec 21, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> See, this fascinates me, because so many people feel this way about the E01. Is there any equivalent AA light in 5mm that causes the same degree of devotion? Any competitor to the Gerber UI? ....



Peak Kilimanjaro?


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 21, 2016)

The amazing this about the E0 is it`s regulated for around 9 hours, The ARC AAA is not regulated and cost so much more.

http://67-20-93-49.unifiedlayer.com/flashlightreviews/reviews/fenix_e0.htm

John.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 21, 2016)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> The amazing this about the E0 is it`s regulated for around 9 hours, The ARC AAA is not regulated and cost so much more.
> 
> http://67-20-93-49.unifiedlayer.com/flashlightreviews/reviews/fenix_e0.htm
> 
> John.


Personally the most amazing 5mm light ever made IMO was the dorcy 1AAA.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 21, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Personally the most amazing 5mm light ever made IMO was the dorcy 1AAA.




What one of these?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Dorcy-1AAA-LED-Aluminum-Keychain-Light-with-Battery-46-4001/202677233

John.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 21, 2016)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> What one of these?
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Dorcy-1AAA-LED-Aluminum-Keychain-Light-with-Battery-46-4001/202677233
> 
> John.


Nope
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?140606-a-New-Dorcy-1AAA
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?150491-Modding-the-Dorcy-1AAA-and-SMT-techniques-tutorial-project
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?35506-Dorcy-1AAA-vs-ArcAAA-vs-Ultra-G


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 21, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Personally the most amazing 5mm light ever made IMO was the dorcy 1AAA.



Intriguing! Care to say more? Amazing for output or run-time or durability or size or tint or...?


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## Hondo (Dec 21, 2016)

Ha! Got my weathered red Dorcy Gen 2 in my shirt pocket now. It's had the LED modded twice, and been through the washing machine the same number of times over 11 years. Somewhere along the line, the corner of the inductor got broken off, but it does not seem to care.

This was my gateway light into this. For sure.

I think, aside from the ready availability at Walmart for $5.94, the appeal was a combination of handy size, adequate output and a very cool tailswitch. Like a little SF 6P switch, you could twist it on, or from off press the center button for momentary. Another turn out and it was locked off altogether. They are also very easy to mod. The LED just straddles the driver board, the short little legs soldered on each side. No glue holding the head shut either.

One caution though, the old Gen 1 and 2 drivers drove the LED at a murderous overdrive - like 40 to 50 mA. The later versions with the focusing lens on them were much more sedate. But those Nichia BS, and later CS series LED's, could handle it. I would not try a Yuji in an early one.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 21, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> Intriguing! Care to say more? Amazing for output or run-time or durability or size or tint or...?


Amazing value, runtime was decent for a AAA but not spectacular. The circuitry in the light was groundbreaking for the price.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 21, 2016)

Hondo said:


> Ha! Got my weathered red Dorcy Gen 2 in my shirt pocket now. It's had the LED modded twice, and been through the washing machine the same number of times over 11 years. Somewhere along the line, the corner of the inductor got broken off, but it does not seem to care.
> 
> This was my gateway light into this. For sure.
> 
> ...


Yes the lights do look angry but one good thing about the dorcy is its ability to drain a battery way down in voltage.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 21, 2016)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Yes the lights do look angry but one good thing about the dorcy is its ability to drain a battery way down in voltage.



So you liked the fact that it made a good vampire? (Insert smiley face here).

I've been looking for a Klarus Mi02, the kind that run4jc tested against the E01, and it looks like Klarus is not making them anymore. That's a shame! There are a few left here and there, but they are out of stock many places. 

I'm guessing there simply was not much profit-margin in them, and Klarus makes more on the XPG-models that it now offers for the AAA cell.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 22, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> So you liked the fact that it made a good vampire? (Insert smiley face here).


you bet around 2003-4 things were a lot different.


> I've been looking for a Klarus Mi02, the kind that run4jc tested against the E01, and it looks like Klarus is not making them anymore. That's a shame! There are a few left here and there, but they are out of stock many places.
> 
> I'm guessing there simply was not much profit-margin in them, and Klarus makes more on the XPG-models that it now offers for the AAA cell.


I used to drain AAs in a dorcy 2AA light that would light up on one battery till below 1V but it is only an 85 lumen light with a luxeon rebel 80 or 100 LED in it.


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## parnass (Dec 22, 2016)

Blast from the past.


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## KITROBASKIN (Dec 28, 2016)

K2-bk-bl-rd said:


> My name is Joshua... If anyone else wants a few 5600k led's I'd be will to let a few more go.



Joshua! Christmas came on December 28 for yours truly! The Yuji 5600K Hi CRI LED's you sent have arrived. Very nice, uniformly broad beam and worked with twin 2016 batteries. Carefully examining options, but have a modified Photon II on keychain at present. It has been SUCH a treat to have generous members like Lampe Depeche and K2-bk-bl-rd come through like this; Really, really grateful for both of you. Thank You to candlepowerforums as well, for enabling this worldwide connection.


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## coloradogps (Dec 29, 2016)

Too late to get some of these leds?

I would love to see one of these in the EO1...


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## K2-bk-bl-rd (Dec 29, 2016)

Send me a pm, with your address, if you want a few 5600k ones from me.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 29, 2016)

coloradogps said:


> Too late to get some of these leds?
> 
> I would love to see one of these in the EO1...



Hey Colorado!

Just answered your PM, told you where to send SASE.

But I have to warn you--the consensus is that modding the E01 is a real nightmare. The pill is potted in epoxy of an unusual toughness (which is part of why the light is so tough!). That means it is both hard to get the circuit out of the head, and also hard to remove the epoxy from the circuit even after you have it out. Do some searches here on CPF about modding E01s, and you'll see some sad stories about people breaking their lights while trying to mod them. 

More proof of how hard it is? Vinh Nguyen, modder extraordinaire, gave up doing it because it was too hard to make it profitable. 

A different warning--I did a mod on a Gerber Infinity Ultra, swapping out the stock LED (ugly purple thrower) for one of these Yuji LEDs. (Actually one of Joshua's 5600k Yuji's, which has a cooler color so greater output). The GIU is much, much easier to mod. It worked out okay, and now I have a GIU with a great tint and CRI.

*However*--the output has been cut in half, and the throw seems like about 1/10th. I'm guessing it is something like a 5-6 lumen output right now, and that is evenly distributed over the entire light-cone for a narrow-mule effect. Good news: no hot spot, and beautiful even light. Bad news: no throw at all. If the unmodded GIU is about 50-100 cd (roughly comparable to an E01), then the GIU modded with a Yuji must be about around 10-20 cd. *Only* good for indoor, near-vision work.

ETA: I'm having trouble finding ANSI lux measures for the GIU. Fenix lists the E01 at 115 cd, and one site I found lists the GIU at 80 cd. That about corresponds to my visual sense of the unmodded beams--they look about the same to the naked eye, which is what you expect with a less-than-double increase. The GIU modded with the Yuji is putting out way, way less than the unmodded GIU, so whatever way way less than 80 is.


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## NutSAK (Dec 29, 2016)

Do the 3200K Yuji's have a narrower beam profile than the 5600K? I was excited to try one in a GIU, but not after reading your description of the 5600K...


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 29, 2016)

NutSAK said:


> Do the 3200K Yuji's have a narrower beam profile than the 5600K? I was excited to try one in a GIU, but not after reading your description of the 5600K...



The Yuji Intl store offers both color-temps in two different angles, 45 or 60. I bought the 3200k, 45 degree version; I don't know what the angle is for the 5600k LEDs that I got from Joshua. Even the 45 degree LEDS that I got are very diffuse across that 45-degree cone; no hot spot of any kind. So if Joshua sent me 60-degree LEDS, then the 45 degree LEDS might be **slightly** throwier, but not much.

ETA: And as Hondo pointed out to me via PM, you can always try out these 5mm LEDS without doing any modding, just by slipping a 2032 coin-cell between the two legs. That will give you a very accurate preview of what you will see after modding it, without any work. Maybe the modded version will have slightly better output if it provides a slightly higher voltage--I sometimes use a rechargeable 2032 which outputs 4.2 volts. In a Photon Freedom, I get the same higher output from using the RC2032 that I get from using 2016x2.


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## K2-bk-bl-rd (Dec 29, 2016)

I believe to ones I bought are 45degree, but the ones Don is using for the Mcgizmo Sapphire are 60 degree.


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## KITROBASKIN (Dec 29, 2016)

Housed in the Photon pinch lights, the beam spread of both color temperature Yuji's look close to 180 degrees to me, when shining it normally. However, moving it close to a white wall reveals what look like 60 degree beams on both. I have a fresh 2032 battery in the 3200K, and reasonably fresh pair of 2016's in the 5600K and the 5600K definitely looks like more light but anyone who prefers warm would be fine with the output in a normal sized room. Depending how night adapted your eyes are, a person can use the 5600K to maybe 20 feet or more, and depending how dark the color is of the object of interest. For the 3200K as I have it, maybe 15 feet or more.

If you carry a more powerful light on a belt loop or clipped in a pocket, this keychain light is fine with that kind of range, seems like. 

It is such a treat to be able to play with these. Looking inside the Nitecore Tube, a person with reasonable soldering skills...


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## Hondo (Dec 30, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> The Yuji Intl store offers both color-temps in two different angles, 45 or 60. I bought the 3200k, 45 degree version; I don't know what the angle is for the 5600k LEDs that I got from Joshua. Even the 45 degree LEDS that I got are very diffuse across that 45-degree cone; no hot spot of any kind. So if Joshua sent me 60-degree LEDS, then the 45 degree LEDS might be **slightly** throwier, but not much.
> 
> ETA: And as Hondo pointed out to me via PM, you can always try out these 5mm LEDS without doing any modding, just by slipping a 2032 coin-cell between the two legs. That will give you a very accurate preview of what you will see after modding it, without any work. Maybe the modded version will have slightly better output if it provides a slightly higher voltage--I sometimes use a rechargeable 2032 which outputs 4.2 volts. In a Photon Freedom, I get the same higher output from using the RC2032 that I get from using 2016x2.




Got my 3200's the other day lampe, thanks! Seeing a lot of what you are saying above. On a fairly fresh 2032, I get 8 mA draw, and way less output than I see from a Nichia DS, which only draws 4 mA on the same 2032. The quality of these is exquisite. But the volume and throw is a lot less than the typical cool 5 mm's. I want to mod my Gerber Infinity Ultra with one, but now I am thinking the best host would be a multi-LED light that does not drive each LED too hard. Given the high current draw on a 2032, it seems the low Vf results in higher current draw in circuits sensitive to this - direct drive being very sensitive, of course.

Lampe, what are you seeing for current at the tailcap of the Gerber IU? My un-modded one is at about 150 - 160 mA on a NiMH. If it is not much higher on your modded one, I may still put a Yuji in mine, even if the output is cut. But if it is going up a lot, the LED might not last very long in high overdrive.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 31, 2016)

Hondo said:


> Lampe, what are you seeing for current at the tailcap of the Gerber IU? My un-modded one is at about 150 - 160 mA on a NiMH. If it is not much higher on your modded one, I may still put a Yuji in mine, even if the output is cut. But if it is going up a lot, the LED might not last very long in high overdrive.



Hondo, I don't have a DMM that will allow me to measure current that way. I guess I should break down and get one, but after I break down and get this and that, pretty soon I'm broke.

But talk about your seal of approval! Don McLeish, McGizmo himself, is now offering the Yuji Hi CRI as an option in his Sapphires. See here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ing-wave-of-Sapphire-25-s-GS-and-now-High-CRI

And here are some of his comments from that thread:

"Hi guys,
I got some of these high CRI Yuji LED's in the wider viewing angle (60) and 5600K and am very impressed with the performance so far. I don't know how close my integrating sphere and spectrometer is to reality these days and especially with a low output LED like these but I did measure a Sapphire GS and compared it to one of these with HiCRI. I measured 5200K with the GS and 5045 on the HiCRI. CRIa was 69 on the GS and an impressive 96 with the HiCRI. I measured 5.1 lumens on the GS (which is low I believe) and 3.5 lumens from the HiCRI. My guess is that the actual lumens may be closer to double for each light. The intensity of beam seemed very comparable between the two but the HiCRI has a smaller diameter flood. The evenness of intensity across the beam is better with this HiCRI LED than any I have seen with these small 5 mm LED's. "

"I have now spent some time with the Hi CRI LED in the Sapphire and it really continues to impress me. With daylight color temperature, high CRI and a beam that is more artifact free than any flood beam I have seen, I feel the Sapphire has finally come to a maturity worthy of note."

So McGizmo also raves about the quality of the light and the evenness of the flood. It really is a beautiful beam.

There are a variety of ways to get this light, at a range of different prices. 

Cheapest is to get the LED and a 2032 coin cell, and put the coin cell between the two leads of the LED. Not IPX rated for waterproofness; will self-disassemble after a drop of 1cm. UI might be described as "tactical mode".

Next option is to put it into a Photon Freedom. $10 for the light, and a mod that anyone can do with a pair of needle-nose pliers. Pretty good waterproofness, survives rough treatment due to light weight (it will survive a drop from 5000 meters, but probably not getting run over by a car); lots of different modes (though dimming via PWM).

Next is to put it into a GIU. $18 for the light, and a fairly easy mod if you have access to a soldering iron. Waterproof, very robust, survives air-drop and car-tires. Simple UI.

Then there's getting one of Don's Sapphires. Superb waterproofness, titanium toughness, and an unbelievable work of art. Costs $150, but worth every penny.

As for modding an E01, I think the best way to do it is this: Buy an E01. Send it to Don for modding, along with $150. He will replace the LED with a Yuji. He'll replace the driver with one of his upgraded ARC drivers. And he'll upgrade the E01's body to titanium. That E01 will be so darned modded, you'll hardly recognize it!


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 31, 2016)

I should say a little about why the dim output is more of a concern for me than for McGizmo. Really, KITROBASKIN said it above:

"If you carry a more powerful light on a belt loop or clipped in a pocket, this keychain light is fine with that kind of range, seems like. "

That's the thing: if you want a beautiful low-level light to complement your pocket-rocket in dim situations, then a Yuji is great.

But part of the idea of a 'cockroach light,' to my mind, is its ability to work with very worn-out cells if that's all that are available (the 'vampire' aspect). I want my cockroach to be a back-up when I don't have my pocket-rockets, or any other good options.

When you get down below 1v, you are also generally producing less than 1 lumen. And in sub-lumen levels, you really need some narrowing of the beam to get any useful light. The ZL H52w with a reflector lets me walk around a room, even on its lowest level, which is 0.01 lumens! You have to move the beam around a bit, but it still gives usable light for reading or close-in navigation. On that same 0.01 lumen level, the ZL H502w, pure mule, gives out light that is too diffuse to be usable. The only thing you can use it for is to find the light itself. 

So too, the ugly, throwy LEDs in the E01 or GIU give a beam that is still useful down in the very low sub-lumen levels. The Yuji becomes useless at that lumen-level; just too diffuse.

And I say this as someone who loves mules, who loves wide, diffuse, even beams. For most EDC use, they are far more useful than throwers. But when you only have a few hundredths of a lumen to work with, you have to **collect** that light to get the most from it.

Now, the vampire fantasy is not very realistic--I have honestly never been in a situation where I had to scavenge used AAAs in order to get any light. (Possibly because I EDC about 3 other lights all the time...). But if that's why you want your E01 or your GIU, then you probably don't want a Yuji in it.

Different lights for different fantasies, I guess.


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## KITROBASKIN (Dec 31, 2016)

Great thread, interesting information.

Wanted to briefly mention that I did not clip the leg of the Yuji before putting it in the old Photon II, like the stock emitter is cut. It may be that the longer leg and slightly thicker battery setup (twin 2016's) make for a relatively tight electrical connection, and perhaps improved flow. It takes a stout fingernail to move the clear switch to the 'on' position, while not simultaneously pressing on the opposite side or it won't actuate. 

Wish there was a conventional way to use a rechargeable battery in it, but its use will be brief and occasional, for the most part.


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## ZMZ67 (Dec 31, 2016)

lampeDépêche said:


> I should say a little about why the dim output is more of a concern for me than for McGizmo. Really, KITROBASKIN said it above:
> 
> "If you carry a more powerful light on a belt loop or clipped in a pocket, this keychain light is fine with that kind of range, seems like. "
> 
> ...



Nice observation regarding usable light. It does seem unlikely that any of us would face the situation where we are down to just used up AAAs but I think you are spot on,that is the idea many people have when carrying the EO1 or similar lights.


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## LeanBurn (Dec 31, 2016)

$150...for an E01...now that would be a very flashaholic expenditure indeed.

I wonder if the bulletproof Klarus klone could be done cheaper and easier.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 1, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> $150...for an E01...now that would be a very flashaholic expenditure indeed.



Just to be clear:

I was joking about McGizmo doing an E01 mod. I was saying that if you send him the price of a new Sapphire (i.e. $150), and also send him an E01, then he'll be happy to send you a Sapphire in return.

I don't know whether McGizmo does any mods at all, and I don't want to leave the wrong impression.


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## gurdygurds (Jan 1, 2017)

What do some of these high end AAA lights have over an E01 with the beam sanded to a nice, smooth, white, floody beam? Honestly curious, not trying to start a war.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 2, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> What do some of these high end AAA lights have over an E01 with the beam sanded to a nice, smooth, white, floody beam? Honestly curious, not trying to start a war.


more modes/output, better throw and possibly more efficient emitters plus better tint too.


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## Hondo (Jan 2, 2017)

I think gurdy may be pointing more at the Sapphire, which is just a single mode, 5 mm light, so comparable "on paper" to an E01.

I'm not the best one to justify the $150 for a Sapphire, not being a McGizmo owner. But like the ~$50 Arc AAA, when they were available, the feel of a real quality light is hard to describe to those who have not used one. Also, on the practical side, Don will be hand-picking LED's for efficiency and tint. The quality of his driver and the workmanship during assembly will guarantee durability and reliability beyond what mass production can achieve. And should any customer service be needed, you can bet it won't be a problem.

Oh, and it's titanium!


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## gurdygurds (Jan 2, 2017)

Thanks Hondo, I guess my question was more geared towards a Sapphire\E01 comparison. I don't see myself trying out a Sapphire or Mako, (unless I inherit one) and I don't foresee anyone torturing one of them side by side with an E01, so I will just continue on with my E01 love affair. I will say that with an Eneloop inside with some post-it wrapped around it to eliminate all battery rattle the E01 feels pretty darn solid to me. I have tried an ARC and like the E01 better. Battery crusher design with the foam donut glued to the head didn't do much for me. Long live these little 5mm lights. QUOTE=Hondo;5026352]I think gurdy may be pointing more at the Sapphire, which is just a single mode, 5 mm light, so comparable "on paper" to an E01.

I'm not the best one to justify the $150 for a Sapphire, not being a McGizmo owner. But like the ~$50 Arc AAA, when they were available, the feel of a real quality light is hard to describe to those who have not used one. Also, on the practical side, Don will be hand-picking LED's for efficiency and tint. The quality of his driver and the workmanship during assembly will guarantee durability and reliability beyond what mass production can achieve. And should any customer service be needed, you can bet it won't be a problem.

Oh, and it's titanium![/QUOTE]


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## Hondo (Jan 2, 2017)

lampe, good news on Don's use of the Yuji LED's.

I finally took the plunge and modded my Gerber Infinity Ultra (again). Got some interesting data along the way, but the final result is most pleasing, really a lot of light, in an almost mule like beam.

I managed to take an LED current reading before final soldering the LED legs (I just splice them above the board, so it was easy to tack it on wonky for this purpose). Got 43 mA on the 200 mA scale. 

So then I put it together, thinking heck, it should last for at least a good while. Checked the tailcap current and only got 80 mA, which is half of what I remember. So I tried my other Nichia DS modded one, and got the same. Think - think - headsmack! The DMM internal resistance on the lower scales kills the measurement, and I need to take it on the 10A scale. Now I get 160 mA at the tail like I remembered.

So good news is, the lower Vf of the Yuji is not causing the circuit to pull more power from the battery, no change in runtime. Bad news is, it is probably driving the LED at near 80 mA. So either it won't last a real long time, or we need to mod the circuit to lower it under 30 mA, which will make it a lot less useful with it's unfocused beam.

Being curious (but not curious enough to un-mod the light), I took some more measurements on a 2032. On the 20 mA scale, I get 8 mA. On the 200 mA scale, I get just over 10 mA. On the 10 A scale, I get 0.01 A, kind of crude. But now I am not sure if the ratio of error on the lower scale at the LED will be the same as it is at the tailcap.

For now, I am going to hope for the best and use it routinely. I remember getting about 2 years from a very nice JELED in a Dorcy AAA, which drives very hard. It still looked good, but seemed not to be any brighter than before the mod. Sure enough, lumen loss was taking it's toll (tossed in a fairly nice Nichia CS, still going strong). If I get two years before this needs another LED, I won't call it a fail, the quality is worth it. And once you've done it once, the mod is very quick and simple.

Not sure if I could find a small enough resistor to fit under the head of the Gerber to throttle it a bit, just in series with the LED. Probably the best way would be to change one of the SMD components. But that is where I check out on soldering skills.

I am scanning my multi-LED lights for one that goes easy on each one, to get a balance of good useful output, and unlimited (virtually) durability.

My best candidates so far are the Dorcy 1xAA 3 LED and those old 8 LED "Xnova" numbers with the aluminum bezel with a pocket for each one - I bet it stays under 25 mA per LED.

Off to put one in a 2032 coin cell light. They will last forever in those!


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 2, 2017)

Hondo said:


> I finally took the plunge and modded my Gerber Infinity Ultra (again). Got some interesting data along the way, but the final result is most pleasing, really a lot of light, in an almost mule like beam.



Those data are very interesting, Hondo--I just wish I understood more of them!

Let me tell you what I think I learned from all of that, in non-specialist terms, and then you can tell me what I got right.

1) the new LED will not shorten the run-time of the GIU;
2) the new LED is being over-driven by the circuit, which will reduce its life-span somewhat (but it will probably last a few years anyhow).

Can you get any sense of the relative lumen-outputs of the two LEDs? If the stock was outputting something like 8 lumens, can you predict what the new LED outputs? I guess that's not really something you can calculate from the current-draw, without knowing the efficiency of this LED?

Will the change in LED have any effect on the lowest voltage that the circuit will run with? The stock GIU will start up on a cell reading 0.8v or so, and drain it down to about 0.6v. Would the lower Vf of the new LED affect that, or is that all on the other side of the circuit, so to speak? I.e., the circuit needs a certain minimum voltage in order to start working, no matter what the voltage of the LED is? 

2032 lights--I honestly think that the Photon mod is the best compromise if someone wants to introduce some beautiful Yuji Hi CRI goodness into their life. It's cheap, quick, solder-free, and produces a light that is fairly water-proof and shock-proof. Mod a Photon Freedom and you have lots of different output-levels, from maybe 5 lumens down to a few hundredths. (5 lumens is my guess about the output on a 4.2v rechargeable or 2x2016; probably more like 3 lumens on the single-cell 2032).

I'm not saying that it's better than the modded GIU or the Sapphire--those are both excellent things, and much more likely to survive hard abuse from hammers. And they work on cheaper, more common cells (AA or AAA). But the Photon Freedom mod puts out exactly the same beam of light, for a lot less work and money.


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## Hondo (Jan 2, 2017)

lampe, both of your initial assumptions are bang on. With respect to the relative brightness, it is very hard to compare since the beams are so different. I would like to say that they are about the same, and it depends on which generation of Nichia LED you compare to. But I still think even with a significant overdrive the Yuji LED is not quite as bright.

I tend toward the circuit being the dominant factor in how low of a voltage it can start from, but would not be surprised if the Yuji allows it to go even lower.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 3, 2017)

Hondo said:


> lampe, good news on Don's use of the Yuji LED's.
> 
> I finally took the plunge and modded my Gerber Infinity Ultra (again). Got some interesting data along the way, but the final result is most pleasing, really a lot of light, in an almost mule like beam.
> 
> ...


One thing that can help is if you use nimh batteries in the light the lower voltage will throttle output some. If there is room you could get a 1/8 watt resistor and see if you can find a place to splice it in the circuit either before it hits the electronics (from the battery + or - inputs or before it hits one of the legs of the LED itself. I once replaced the 8 LEDs in a 3AAA light with 2600mcd ones I got from a member and put a resistor in series with the switch in the tailcap to limit the current to the LEDs (each, in parallel) to an average of about 15 ma. I have a gerber with a green LED in it that I never use as I don't much care for green LED lighting I should try and get the circuit out of it and put a cree 5mm LED in it as I like the color and beam of them better than the nichia DS and GS leds I have.


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## Hondo (Jan 3, 2017)

Oops, should have mentioned the measurements I took were using an Energizer NiMH, not fresh off the charger, but fairly full.

I don't think I have any resistors smaller than 1/4 watt, but even with a 1/8 watt size, it would be tight. Maybe opposite the inductor, but keeping the legs from shorting would be magic.


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## iamlucky13 (Jan 3, 2017)

I got busy and left the modded Microlight in a drawer for a couple weeks after my initial testing with the Yuji 3200K.

Then I did a soft 48 hour challenge this weekend. I say soft, because I knew from the start I had a task planned where the estimated 4 lumens I get from the coin cell wasn't enough - some wood work after dark where I pulled out my Armytek headlamp rather than bother with setting up a corded work light.

Every time I turned it on, the Yuji just mesmerized me. Something about it is just better in a hard to describe way than any other light I've used. My Armytek is a warm, 90+ CRI model, but even it doesn't glow as pleasantly as this Yuji does - I could call the Armytek golden hued, but I can't ascribe a color to the Yuji more specific than warm. As for beam profile, aside from a couple side-lobes at about 180 degrees, it's extremely smooth. I have a Nichia 219B light in the mail I will compare it to soon, and I'm curious if it will fare better.

Spending more time with this just makes me crave an E01 with this emitter.

Perhaps it's irrational since there are efficient, multi-mode 219 lights available. Perhaps the 219B light I have coming will make me forget this craving. Or perhaps Yuji really has set a new bar for color purity that just begs to be paired with efficiency of the E01.


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## iamlucky13 (Jan 3, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> The Yuji Intl store offers both color-temps in two different angles, 45 or 60. I bought the 3200k, 45 degree version; I don't know what the angle is for the 5600k LEDs that I got from Joshua. Even the 45 degree LEDS that I got are very diffuse across that 45-degree cone; no hot spot of any kind. So if Joshua sent me 60-degree LEDS, then the 45 degree LEDS might be **slightly** throwier, but not much.



I was thinking about the beam angle a bit, as the LED's you sent me look wider than 45 degrees - more like 60 degrees.

I think the reason is Yuji likely specifies the angle per the standard of full width at half maximum, so 45 degrees is the angle where the intensity is half the center intensity. As most CPF'ers know, a halving of brightness isn't actually perceptually that much dimmer, so it's not until around 60 degrees that the beam has faded enough to seem perceptually significant.

The throw is definitely limited, but I find it good for indoor use, or basic vision for 2-3 steps ahead outdoors.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 3, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> Every time I turned it on, the Yuji just mesmerized me. Something about it is just better in a hard to describe way than any other light I've used.



Yeah, it's mysterious, right? My attempt at describing it was to talk about pouring caramel on everything, but of course that doesn't get it, either.

The other thing to keep in mind is that tint preferences are highly personalized, so the very thing that you and I love about it will be a serious turn-off to others. 

I note that Don McLeish, for instance, is offering his Yuji Sapphire only in the cooler, 5600k temp. That's a nice emitter, too, and has the same Hi CRI output, but I don't find it "mesmerizing" in the same way. 

I have some 219b emitters, and none of them give the same quality of light. One of them is a mule, too. Very nice light, but not the same as the Yuji.


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## LeanBurn (Jan 3, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> Yeah, it's mysterious, right? My attempt at describing it was to talk about pouring caramel on everything, but of course that doesn't get it, either.
> 
> 
> I have some 219b emitters, and none of them give the same quality of light. One of them is a mule, too. Very nice light, but not the same as the Yuji.



Poured Caramel ... sounds absolutely delicious. 

I am chomping at the bit to have these arrive in the mailbox. :sweat:

Sounds like the lowly :bow:Yuji is top CRI dog next to the optimum incandescent. If we could only get it into a Fenix E01...


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## iamlucky13 (Jan 3, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> I note that Don McLeish, for instance, is offering his Yuji Sapphire only in the cooler, 5600k temp. That's a nice emitter, too, and has the same Hi CRI output, but I don't find it "mesmerizing" in the same way.
> 
> I have some 219b emitters, and none of them give the same quality of light. One of them is a mule, too. Very nice light, but not the same as the Yuji.



I just followed the link for the Sapphire thread. That's pretty cool that a high end builder likes them even with their low output.

But his preference seems to be simply about liking cooler tints more. He seems to share a similar fondness of the overall quality of light Yuji produces, so there's more to it than tint, and I suspect high CRI is only a part of it.

Even before I joined CPF, CRI was important to me for photography, but I had to pay attention to notice the difference between 80 CRI and 90 CRI, and could only tell the difference between 90 CRI and 95 CRI by closely examining photos taken under each. If something more pleasant about the 95 CRI Yuji compared to a 90 CRI Nichia jumps out at you, I'm inclined to suspect it's not CRI.

Maybe it's just the combination of favored color temp, high CRI, and smooth beam with no discernible tint shift, but maybe there's even a bit more - something related to the way many users describe 219B's as "rosy," the way I think of my Armytek as "golden," or the way a poster in the headlamp forum recent complained his high CRI Zebralights have "a slight greenish tint."

So maybe there's more subtle differences in the spectrum Yuji's phosphors produce. Or maybe I just allowed myself to get overly sentimental about the emitters you shared simply because tinkering with them created a personal attachment.


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## gurdygurds (Jan 3, 2017)

I've been messaging back and forth with Fenix Store about seeing if they will do a batch of un-potted E01s for some of us E01 freaks that yearn for a different emitter in there. They've been responsive and last I heard he said he was passing this on to engineers and would get back us about it. Probably a long shot but why not ask. I think I read a thread a while back about someone contacting them about doing the same but I'm not positive. The Vihn modded E01 with a warm led that I had for a short time was AWESOME. The 3200k Yuji that you guys are talking about sounds like it would be perfect in an E01.


iamlucky13 said:


> I got busy and left the modded Microlight in a drawer for a couple weeks after my initial testing with the Yuji 3200K.
> 
> Then I did a soft 48 hour challenge this weekend. I say soft, because I knew from the start I had a task planned where the estimated 4 lumens I get from the coin cell wasn't enough - some wood work after dark where I pulled out my Armytek headlamp rather than bother with setting up a corded work light.
> 
> ...


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## iamlucky13 (Jan 3, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> I've been messaging back and forth with Fenix Store about seeing if they will do a batch of un-potted E01s for some of us E01 freaks that yearn for a different emitter in there. They've been responsive and last I heard he said he was passing this on to engineers and would get back us about it. Probably a long shot but why not ask. I think I read a thread a while back about someone contacting them about doing the same but I'm not positive. The Vihn modded E01 with a warm led that I had for a short time was AWESOME. The 3200k Yuji that you guys are talking about sounds like it would be perfect in an E01.



That would be very cool. Keep us posted if you hear more.

For me, even cooler would be to simply run a batch with Yuji's instead of Nichias and go ahead and pot it for durability, but that would limit the choices for other folks.


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## gurdygurds (Jan 3, 2017)

Anyone have beam shots to compare this Yuji to a 219bv2?? I have a Malkoff MDC with the 219 and I'd love to see what the tint difference is.


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## gurdygurds (Jan 4, 2017)

Did my own "warm" mod to my favorite E01. I'll have to compare it to my Nichia 219bv2 when I get home lol.



image by Six Pound Cat, on Flickr


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 4, 2017)

Gurdygurds, did you do an emitter swap, or is this a joke that I'm not getting?


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## gurdygurds (Jan 4, 2017)

Neither sir. I'm not competent with any emitter swapping type mods so I did the poor\uneducated man's mod which is brown sharpie. Applied, wiped off excess, and repeat. Sounds silly I know but the output doesn't look bad! Again when I get home I'll do some comparisons and beamshots.


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## iamlucky13 (Jan 4, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> Anyone have beam shots to compare this Yuji to a 219bv2?? I have a Malkoff MDC with the 219 and I'd love to see what the tint difference is.



What does the v2 suffix denote? I don't see it in their datasheet. My L3 Illumination L11C with a Nichia 219B arrived last night, but at 4500K, I don't know how useful a photo comparison will be. I might be able to find time to do one in the next couple days.

While obviously the 219B blows away the Yuji BC for output, and therefore has far more versatility, it's not nearly as cozy.

A big part of this is evidently due to me being more of a warm light person than I thought I was. The 4500K Nichia appears extremely neutral to me - almost sterile. I think that's a good thing for general utility, and it's almost surprising to pan from shining on a white wall to brightly colored objects to witness the color rendering. This L11C looks like a good choice my intended use, but it definitely does not give me the warm fuzzies like the Yuji.

So color temp is clearly a big part of why I like the Yuji. The L11C also doesn't form nearly as smooth of a beam as the Yuji. I don't think that's really the Nichia's fault, and it seems quite reasonable especially for such a small light. But the even, floody beam of the Yuji is wonderful indoors.

I still haven't decided if the Yuji has some extra advantage that would continue to be apparent if I had a Nichia of closer color temp and beam profile to compare to.


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## gurdygurds (Jan 4, 2017)

I agree %100 on the lure of the warm cozy. I loved the maglite 2aa incandescent I had but hated the big hole in the beam. I'm going off of what Illumn.com has on their website for the MDC.

http://www.illumn.com/malkoff-devices-mdc-1aa-nichia-219bv2-93-cri.html



iamlucky13 said:


> What does the v2 suffix denote? I don't see it in their datasheet. My L3 Illumination L11C with a Nichia 219B arrived last night, but at 4500K, I don't know how useful a photo comparison will be. I might be able to find time to do one in the next couple days.
> 
> While obviously the 219B blows away the Yuji BC for output, and therefore has far more versatility, it's not nearly as cozy.
> 
> ...


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 4, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> Neither sir. I'm not competent with any emitter swapping type mods so I did the poor\uneducated man's mod which is brown sharpie. Applied, wiped off excess, and repeat. Sounds silly I know but the output doesn't look bad! Again when I get home I'll do some comparisons and beamshots.




Ah! I see. No, doesn't sound silly--sounds like an experiment worth trying. No experiment is silly if the results are informative. I look forward to hearing back.


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## iamlucky13 (Jan 4, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> Neither sir. I'm not competent with any emitter swapping type mods so I did the poor\uneducated man's mod which is brown sharpie. Applied, wiped off excess, and repeat. Sounds silly I know but the output doesn't look bad! Again when I get home I'll do some comparisons and beamshots.



Clever. Very similar to jon slider painting nail polish over tape on one of his lights in quest of a green beam mod.

It's also part of how Cree's first "True White" high CRI bulbs achieved 90+ CRI. They were using emitters that apparently had a low to mid 80 CRI, and blocking some of the excess of certain colors.


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## gurdygurds (Jan 4, 2017)

Well here is a comparison to another one of my E01s that has a sanded led. It's not perfect but it's definitely closer to warm and cozy than it was before! I kinda like it  Also I've messed with it some more and tried some yellow and orange sharpie so this is a total cluster of randomness. Not scientific at all and I'm sure I'll keep playing with the colors. 



image by Six Pound Cat, on FlickrQUOTE=iamlucky13;5027733]Clever. Very similar to jon slider painting nail polish over tape on one of his lights in quest of a green beam mod.

It's also part of how Cree's first "True White" high CRI bulbs achieved 90+ CRI. They were using emitters that apparently had a low to mid 80 CRI, and blocking some of the excess of certain colors.[/QUOTE]


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 4, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> Well here is a comparison to another one of my E01s that has a sanded led. It's not perfect but it's definitely closer to warm and cozy than it was before! I kinda like it  Also I've messed with it some more and tried some yellow and orange sharpie so this is a total cluster of randomness. Not scientific at all and I'm sure I'll keep playing with the colors.



I had never thought of doing this. The result is certainly a warmer tint!


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## gurdygurds (Jan 4, 2017)

deleted


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## ZMZ67 (Jan 6, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> Neither sir. I'm not competent with any emitter swapping type mods so I did the poor\uneducated man's mod which is brown sharpie. Applied, wiped off excess, and repeat. Sounds silly I know but the output doesn't look bad! Again when I get home I'll do some comparisons and beamshots.



Nice idea! Easy way to change tint where filters can't be used. Will have to give this a try!


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## gurdygurds (Jan 6, 2017)

Edt: Has anyone tried to put a Yuji in a Photon Covert??


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## NutSAK (Jan 6, 2017)

See post #47. KITROBASKIN shows a covert in his video, but I'm not sure if that one was converted.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 6, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> Edt: Has anyone tried to put a Yuji in a Photon Covert??



Yuji Hi CRI in a Photon Covert is part of my every day carry, every day. I usually power it from a rechargeable 2032, which means that I have no qualms about using it, and it also gets the output boost from the higher voltage. (It's as bright on 4.2v as though it had the 6v from 2x 2016 cells). 

Very easy mod--the Covert is no different for modding from the non-Covert Photon Freedom.


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## LeanBurn (Jan 6, 2017)

The tint is less angry for sure, but I wonder how much the output dropped from the brown sharpie mod? It would be interesting to see if the tint changed actually improved the color rendition.

I wish Photons were found up here in Canada, I wouldn't mind trying one with a Yuji...I hope they come in the mail today :hairpull:


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## MKLight (Jan 6, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> Yuji Hi CRI in a Photon Covert is part of my every day carry, every day. I usually power it from a rechargeable 2032, which means that I have no qualms about using it, and it also gets the output boost from the higher voltage. (It's as bright on 4.2v as though it had the 6v from 2x 2016 cells).
> 
> Very easy mod--the Covert is no different for modding from the non-Covert Photon Freedom.




Where did you get the rechargeable 2032? Also, how do you charge it? Could you used the new Foursevens Charger?

I'm still loving the Yujis you sent me. I will have to mod a Covert, too. 

Thank you,
MK


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## gurdygurds (Jan 7, 2017)

I was just going to ask about the 2032 rechargeable also. I received a Covert today with an extremely strange beam pattern. It's throwing a huge ring well outside of the main beam. Amazon is sending a replacement which should be here tomorrow. 



image by Six Pound Cat, on Flickr



MKLight said:


> Where did you get the rechargeable 2032? Also, how do you charge it? Could you used the new Foursevens Charger?
> 
> I'm still loving the Yujis you sent me. I will have to mod a Covert, too.
> 
> ...


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## MKLight (Jan 7, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> I was just going to ask about the 2032 rechargeable also. I received a Covert today with an extremely strange beam pattern. It's throwing a huge ring well outside of the main beam. Amazon is sending a replacement which should be here tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> image by Six Pound Cat, on Flickr




The newest one I just purchased from a Battery Junction over the holidays looks the same...maybe it's the LED?


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## gurdygurds (Jan 7, 2017)

Ugh. Didn't want to hear that. Defeats the purpose of the covert sleeve big time. Hoping the new one doesn't look like this. I'll report back.


MKLight said:


> The newest one I just purchased from a Battery Junction over the holidays looks the same...maybe it's the LED?


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## gurdygurds (Jan 7, 2017)

Leanburn I'm wondering the same thing. Hopefully I'll have some yuji LEDs to compare it to soon and I'll let you know how close or far off it is.


LeanBurn said:


> The tint is less angry for sure, but I wonder how much the output dropped from the brown sharpie mod? It would be interesting to see if the tint changed actually improved the color rendition.
> 
> I wish Photons were found up here in Canada, I wouldn't mind trying one with a Yuji...I hope they come in the mail today :hairpull:


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 7, 2017)

MKLight said:


> Where did you get the rechargeable 2032? Also, how do you charge it?



I got mine from battery junction. Search on their site for "LIR2032" and that will pull up the cells and the charger, too. You can also find it at Azamon with the same search.

They aren't perfect--their capacity is low, and they tend to die prematurely i.e. after only 10-15 recharge cycles. Probably because their is no low-voltage protection on the Photon, so they get over-discharged. But I believe their capacity is as good as that of a pair of 2016s, which is your other option for running higher-voltage LEDs in a coin-cell format.


ETA: I don't know anything about the new Foursevens charger, but I doubt that it can charge coin-cells. You mean the one that comes with the new Mini Mark II? That's designed for an RCR123, so its charge-rate would be a lot higher than a safe rate for a coin-cell.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jan 8, 2017)

After much trial and even more error, here are some photos showing Yuji LEDs in Photons, stock (old) Photon Freedom, Nichia MatchBoxInstruments HF, and Nitecore TIP CRI.

Taken with 7 year old Canon SX20
1.6" exposure, aperture 3.5, ISO 1600, white balance set for sunny day


MBI HF Nichia warm on lowest mode
https://goo.gl/photos/X4mAhWS9vBgLmrwKA

Yuji warm in Photon basic model (direct drive fresh 2032 battery)
https://goo.gl/photos/z6A4gE6F1XJ1jNwe7

stock Photon Freedom maybe 10 years old with new 2016's 
https://goo.gl/photos/sCBvyhrwTupr2RFJ6

Yuji daylight in Photon II with new 2032
https://goo.gl/photos/FgGofMJPMU5DhbWX9

Yuji daylight in Photon Freedom with fairly fresh 2016's (Notice overexposed image, showing a brighter beam than the new 2032 battery, direct driven Photon II)
https://goo.gl/photos/i3Toe3mxYK11725Z8

Nitecore TIP CRI more recent production on lowest mode
https://goo.gl/photos/1SbM7jQWNRdYtcFWA

Nitecore TIP CRI earlier version 2 on lowest mode (has a wider beam and less throw that later version)
https://goo.gl/photos/6rd16e6YvnDMfMU89

Some differences are exaggerated compared to what I saw. And the long exposure, while not replicating what the eye sees, allows the low light emitters to show how they can do with colors. A YouTube video is forthcoming, comparing tints with sun inside our house.


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## MKLight (Jan 8, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> I got mine from battery junction. Search on their site for "LIR2032" and that will pull up the cells and the charger, too. You can also find it at Azamon with the same search.
> 
> They aren't perfect--their capacity is low, and they tend to die prematurely i.e. after only 10-15 recharge cycles. Probably because their is no low-voltage protection on the Photon, so they get over-discharged. But I believe their capacity is as good as that of a pair of 2016s, which is your other option for running higher-voltage LEDs in a coin-cell format.
> 
> ...



Lampe,

Thank you for the information about the LIR2032. Regarding the Foursevens charger, I was asking about the one included with the Mini Mark II. I wasn't sure if it automatically adjusted its power. Good to know, as I was going to try to charge a 10180 from it, too...I won't try it now. 

Best regards,
MK


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## KITROBASKIN (Jan 8, 2017)

This video shows Yuji tints with ambient sunlight compared with other flashlights. The MatchBoxInstruments HF color temperature is unknown to me but I would suspect it may be ~4200K , I really do not know. Also the pinchlight description at 1:44 is incorrect but described correctly later in the video. 

http://youtu.be/ct4aWQTdjaI


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## LeanBurn (Jan 9, 2017)

Having just modded my Dorcy Penlight with the Yuji LED....all I can say is its the closest thing to incandescent for color rendering I have ever seen. Whatever output deficiencies I thought it would have are unfounded as it outperforms the Nichia it replaced using the same batteries. The 3200K is more like a creamy white than caramel to my eyes.

- beam pattern has no discernible hot spot in its 45* spread.
- works fine with (2) 1.5V AAA batteries 

...my only concern now is fighting the urge to needlessly purchase other 5mm lights just so I can throw the stock LED out and put the Yuji in...:devil:


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## Hondo (Jan 10, 2017)

LeanBurn, sounds nice! Is that the Dorcy with the sweet natural aluminum finish, and a little cone reflector on the front? I have that, and it is just direct drive. If you have a DMM, can you check the current at the cap? That will be the LED drive current. Use the highest amp scale you have, as internal resistance on lower scales causes a lot of error. (uh, do as I say not as I do? - I forgot that last bit in the middle of my Gerber mod, and now I'm not sure how high the drive current is - more than 42 mA though). After a couple of hours of use in my Gerber this past week, I am beginning to think these Yuji's could be fairly tough when driven well beyond their rated drive current. It would be nice, as their low Vf tends to result in a hard overdrive in many lights.

I had not considered that light until now, but it sounds like a dandy host!


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 10, 2017)

Hey, Leanburn, glad you got your LEDs!

That Dorcy--is it the 41-1218? And what was the mod like: any soldering, or just press-fit?


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## LeanBurn (Jan 10, 2017)

It is indeed the Dorcy 41-1218 (Amazon for $5). The simplest direct drive 2AAA-5mm LED circuit known to man. 

Before doing this mod, turn it on and behold the Nichia...in all its glory. Then undo the front part of the penlight and then by simply pushing the stock LED/plug combo with very little pressure it will come out with the Nichia LED legs through and around the plastic plug, no soldering, just friction fit. Remove the Nichia and put on the Yuji and install the plug. Turn the penlight on and and even though you are a man it will be hard to hold back the smile of joy at the perfect tint, perfect beam pattern with zero artifacts..just perfect. Compare it with a nearby incan and you will continue to smile...even more. 


I have had zero issues. I don't have a DMM sorry.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 10, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> ...Turn the penlight on and and even though you are a man it will be hard to hold back the smile of joy...



Tee-hee! Luckily, I'm the kind of man who has never worked that hard to hold back my smiles of joy, rare as they may be. 

On the other hand, that Hondo--his avatar makes me think he might be one of your tight-lipped, poker-faced kind. So if he grins, too, then that will really mean something!

Thanks for describing the mod--sounds like it might be even easier than the Photon mod, which is dead easy.


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## NutSAK (Jan 10, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> Remove the Nichia and put on the Yuji and install the plug. Turn the penlight on and and even though you are a man it will be hard to hold back the smile of joy at the perfect tint, perfect beam pattern with zero artifacts..just perfect. Compare it with a nearby incan and you will continue to smile...even more.



SOLD!


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 10, 2017)

I just got a PM from TheCleanerSD asking for a few Yuji's, and I think those will be my last ones. (Don't worry, Gurdygurds, I've reserved a few for you whenever your SASE gets here).

So I'm out of the give-away business for now--I had a hundred LEDs, and now I don't. 

But it has been fun! The people here at CPF are great, and I have had a few nice exchanges with people I would not have talked with otherwise. As I said earlier, I also learned that there are more women on this forum than you might think from reading people's names and handles. 

Thanks for playing, Hi CRI fans! May all your lights be warm and beautiful!


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## gurdygurds (Jan 10, 2017)

Awesome, thank you sir. Not sure how many you've been sending people but you can just throw two or even one in for me so more folks can get a chance at them. 


lampeDépêche said:


> I just got a PM from TheCleanerSD asking for a few Yuji's, and I think those will be my last ones. (Don't worry, Gurdygurds, I've reserved a few for you whenever your SASE gets here).
> 
> So I'm out of the give-away business for now--I had a hundred LEDs, and now I don't.
> 
> ...


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## LeanBurn (Jan 10, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> Awesome, thank you sir. Not sure how many you've been sending people but you can just throw two or even one in for me so more folks can get a chance at them.



Are there any Canucks out there who missed out? PM me.


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## Hondo (Jan 10, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> I have had zero issues. I don't have a DMM sorry.




No worries, I have DATA. Great idea to run one off of 2xAAA, very close to what a Gerber Infinity Ultra does. I got 34 mA on the 200 mA scale, and 0.04 on the 10 Amp scale. So it is overdriving a fair bit, but it also looks like the 43 mA reading I took at the LED during my Gerber mod may not be so far off of actual, even though I had the meter on the 200 mA scale. Not sure why there was so much more difference at the tailcap, other than being in the 160 and 350 mA range, but hey, I'm an ME, not a EE.

So anyway, using my GIU now, and it shows no sign of fatigue, and the DD Dorcy 2xAAA mod draws less current than that, using brand new AAA's, BTW, so should last a good long time in there. And yes, that beam does put a big wide smile on the Duke's gnarly mug!


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## zs&tas (Jan 21, 2017)

Bump for the big yes and have a inova x5 red incoming  happy days.


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## phosphor22 (Jan 21, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> I just got a PM from TheCleanerSD asking for a few Yuji's, and I think those will be my last ones. (Don't worry, Gurdygurds, I've reserved a few for you whenever your SASE gets here).
> 
> So I'm out of the give-away business for now--I had a hundred LEDs, and now I don't.
> 
> ...



Thank you lampeDépêche for sending all the LED's out into the world... I am sure pleasant little warm beams of light are entertaining lots of folks - me included


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## TinderBox (UK) (Jan 29, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> The amazing this about the E0 is it`s regulated for around 9 hours, The ARC AAA is not regulated and cost so much more.
> 
> http://67-20-93-49.unifiedlayer.com/flashlightreviews/reviews/fenix_e0.htm
> 
> John.



I tried an discharge Eneloop AAA discharged to 0.9v in my Fenix E0 and it did not light-up at all, then i tried it in an Fenix LOP which lights up bright and my ARC-P that also light up bright, So it looks like an Fenix E0 is not the keychain light to have in an emergency.

John.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 29, 2017)

Oh--cancel that. I mixed up the E0 with the E01, sorry.


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## iamlucky13 (Jan 30, 2017)

I've been keeping an eye out for other 5mm lights to possibly swap LED's, with the E01 still being the benchmark to compare against.

I haven't found much that actually outperforms coin cell lights.

Rayovac has a 3 lumen, 1xAAA penlight sold at Walmart for $3 that is reportedly fairly well regulated, but not very efficient. I don't go to Walmart much, but next time I do I will try to confirm whether it has a 5mm LED:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VK6ZGM/?tag=cpf0b6-20

More interesting to me is the Sunwayman R01A. It didn't hold up nearly as well as the E01 in the abuse thread, but it has an unpotted driver, verified here:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/9156


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 30, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> I've been keeping an eye out for other 5mm lights to possibly swap LED's, with the E01 still being the benchmark to compare against.
> 
> I haven't found much that actually outperforms coin cell lights.
> 
> ...


I have one of them I picked up on clearance for $1 and it is unimpressive it has an optic type output (ball of light) that isn't very bright at all the "guts" of the light is a 3 inch cartridge that unscrews out of the front that is 3 pieces of plastic glued together I think. To be honest I don't think it is worth modding the rear clicky switch feel really cheap and sometimes it gets slightly jammed you have to double click it to get it to work. I'm glad I didn't pay $3 or so for it.


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## NutSAK (Jan 31, 2017)

Last night I modified my Icon Irix II with the 3200K Yujis supplied by lampeDépêche. It was a fairly easy mod to partially cut off the legs of the original LEDs and solder the Yujis directly to them. Don't bother trying to desolder the original LEDs as I did for 3 of them. The tiny holes in the PCB make solder removal very difficult using wick.

I love floody headlamps and will use this one primarily for reading, after being in my "unused" pile for a few years. I highly recommend the mod, and it breathed new life into my Irix. There's so much tint win after being used to very orange High CRI tints in the 3000K range prior to this.

Thanks lampeDépêche!


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## gunga (Jan 31, 2017)

Neat. I have a few irix. I should get some of those LEDS.


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## NutSAK (Jan 31, 2017)

The Irix II really couldn't be much easier to mod, but I don't have experience with the Irix I. It's certainly well worth the effort for the II, IMO. It made a lamp that I very rarely used into something I will likely use frequently for reading and grilling tasks. I'm shocked by the tint and CRI of these, and I'm usually not pleased with tints below 4000K.


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## gunga (Jan 31, 2017)

I have 4 irix 2's. I should search out these leds.


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## K2-bk-bl-rd (Jan 31, 2017)

I don't know if anyone is interested, but I have a few of the 5600k Yuji LED's left. Not overly cool tint, just pure white, and make a flawless beam!


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## KITROBASKIN (Jan 31, 2017)

Those 5600K Yuji LED's work really well at night because the output is not blinding powerful, seems to me. The even spread of light and natural color rendition (including white) do not distract from the task at hand or bring harshness to the scene.

Before joining candlepowerforums, I thought flashlights should mimic the tint of a high moon, so as to complement the illumination from the moon, being night and all. No more.

It is understandable that many prefer the warmth of firelight and incandescent light sources. 

Now that we go outside during darkness so much to walk the dogs and avoid getting too much high mountain sun and other people with their out-of-control dogs, it is a treat to be able to look around and enjoy the colors and 'look' of daylight. This, I think applies to these higher color temperature Yuji emitters as well, given their reduced reach.


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## lampeDépêche (Feb 1, 2017)

NutSAK said:


> Thanks lampeDépêche!



Hey, you are very welcome, NutSAK! 

You know, my initial investment for 100 of those things was not that much--like I think about $15.00 USD for the LEDs, plus another $19.00 USD for the shipping. Given the kind of money that a lot of people around here drop on lights all the time, that's cheap! 

You know what is weirdly expensive, though? The Irix Icon II. I guess it is many years out of date now, and Amazon wants to sell their last few units for $89.00!!! I don't think so....


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## NutSAK (Feb 1, 2017)

Yes, I saw that some remaining stock was available on Amazon. Paying that kind of price would no doubt be beyond the spirit of these inexpensive Yuji upgrades. They're nothing special, IMO. I paid $12 new for mine in 2012.


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## Hondo (Feb 1, 2017)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I have one of them I picked up on clearance for $1 and it is unimpressive it has an optic type output (ball of light) that isn't very bright at all the "guts" of the light is a 3 inch cartridge that unscrews out of the front that is 3 pieces of plastic glued together I think. To be honest I don't think it is worth modding the rear clicky switch feel really cheap and sometimes it gets slightly jammed you have to double click it to get it to work. I'm glad I didn't pay $3 or so for it.



I have to agree with the stock $3 Walmart Rayovac 1xAAA clicky light evaluation. But I actually dig it now that I modded one, a while back, with a Nichia DS. I gutted the front and tossed the lens. Then I used the full length of the LED legs to put the tip of the LED right up front, and sleeved it with some un-shrunk shrink tubing for centering. The switch on mine has been perfect, a little firm and deliberate (loud, too), but no accidental activations. It drives very conservatively, and is a good candidate for a Yuji, IMHO. One of the least compact designs running on one AAA battery, but as a short penlight with clip, can be handy to carry in your shirt pocket.

I am also thinking the little "Dorcy-like" Rayovac twist-head AAA at Walmart might be good too, but I have not modded one yet. Mild drive current, but uses a combination reflector and partial diameter focusing lens - some flat lens at the side. I like to call it a "refloptic". It has a smooth "moon beam" at the center, and a decent spill around that. I think it's quite useful.


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## Lynx_Arc (Feb 1, 2017)

Hondo said:


> I have to agree with the stock $3 Walmart Rayovac 1xAAA clicky light evaluation. But I actually dig it now that I modded one, a while back, with a Nichia DS. I gutted the front and tossed the lens. Then I used the full length of the LED legs to put the tip of the LED right up front, and sleeved it with some un-shrunk shrink tubing for centering. The switch on mine has been perfect, a little firm and deliberate (loud, too), but no accidental activations. It drives very conservatively, and is a good candidate for a Yuji, IMHO. One of the least compact designs running on one AAA battery, but as a short penlight with clip, can be handy to carry in your shirt pocket.
> 
> I am also thinking the little "Dorcy-like" Rayovac twist-head AAA at Walmart might be good too, but I have not modded one yet. Mild drive current, but uses a combination reflector and partial diameter focusing lens - some flat lens at the side. I like to call it a "refloptic". It has a smooth "moon beam" at the center, and a decent spill around that. I think it's quite useful.


I agree the switch doesn't accidentally activate the switch is stiff enough but you have to almost overclick it to activate it and it is a long click at that. For a trip to the bathroom not waking others up light it is almost ideal as it has almost no spill and dim enough to not light up the room but bright enough not to totally destroy night vision. As I already have an LD01SS on my keychain this light just sits in a tray by my computer keyboard. 
I had another LED light that was a "ball of light" that I rarely used but it was because it was very bright so much that when it hit something you could only see what was in the ball nothing else around it even fairly close could be seen as the contrast between the light and darkness was rather extreme. I have a cheap chinese 1AA light that I wish they could incorporate the optic in it in a 1AAA light for $3 and I paid $1.50 for it. If the Rayovac had this type of optic I would probably use it at times, put it in tool boxes so I would have a light in them just in case.


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## iamlucky13 (Feb 1, 2017)

Thanks for the input on the Rayovac penlight, Lynx-Arc and Hondo. I figured the optic could be removed, and there's numerous ways to make a simple replacement sleeve to help hold the LED in place.

But while I really like the fact that there is a light with consistent output for only $3, an output of only 3 lumens for 6 hours is surprisingly low. I think I might give the Sunwayman a try.


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## LeanBurn (Mar 20, 2017)

I have had the Yuji modded Dorcy for a couple of months now, I use it quite often and it just sips the power from the cells. The LED is going just as strong as day 1 with no hint of discoloration or dimming. 

I am very confident one could run these is a mini mag 2AAA with no issues...has anyone tried a Yuji in a mini-mag 2AAA or 2AA ? 

I don't know how the 5mm 45 degree beam pattern will behave in an incandescent reflector that has been slight bored out to accommodate the 5mm base. Does anyone have any feedback or insight?


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 20, 2017)

Is your thought direct drive, resistor in series, or transplanting parts from the Dorcy? I think direct drive could be a risk with fresh alkalines because of the relatively low forward voltage of the Yujis.

I'm also rather curious how the beam would look in a reflector. I'm guessing a slightly larger than normal maglite hotspot. Brightness should in theory be close to that of the 2xAAA mini-Maglite.


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## LeanBurn (Mar 20, 2017)

Direct drive, just like the Dorcy. I know the minimag 2AAA would be the exact same as the Dorcy and there is no risk there as I have been running this setup for months now with no issues. If the Yuji can handle 2 AAA....couldn't it handle 2AA just the same? (Also, these would be run with Amaloops... either AAA or AA.)

If I have to choose between the minimag 2AAA or minimag 2AA, I just want to use the best reflector type for the Yuji setup.


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## Lynx_Arc (Mar 20, 2017)

Reflectors on 5mm LEDs do a little usually gathering a small amount of spill but not enough to bother going all out to put a reflector in. As far as direct driving LEDs I've done it with 5mm and off nimh you can get runtimes in weeks down to so dim you have to look into the LED itself. what is fun to do is get a pair of L91/L92 batteries and direct drive the LEDs..... runtime and output is good.


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## LeanBurn (Mar 21, 2017)

Bonus.

I just found a mini mag 2AAA clone lying around...it was out of a tire tester/flashlight promo case from Mr. Lube, it had Defiant batteries with a rear clicky, cheesy o-rings, no where near the build quality, but it looks similar to the minimag 2AAA. 

So I bored out the reflector base to accept the 5mm LED and you are right Lynx Arc. There is no flood/throw changes when I twist the reflector. It did have some flood/throw adjustment previously when it had the incan bulb in there so the ability is pretty much lost when using a 5mm.

When I showed the before and after on the Yuji modded minimag clone to my son (who also loves flashlights), he questioned right away that he thought I put an LED in there. When I said that I did but it is a special Yuji LED, he said that it looks the same color as the incandescent bulb that was in there. Even to the untrained eye, Yugi's tint and CRI is super close to incandescent. :thumbsup:

Not sure if I will buy a minimag incan just to mod...


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 26, 2017)

I now have a Yuji E01!

Well, almost anyways. The Sunwayman R01A is unpotted, and I just finished the swap. This mod is moderately challenging, due to the need for soldering and the tiny size of everything.

I would not rate the R01A in general as quite as nice of a light as its Fenix counterpart, but it doesn't matter. It's got a Yuji in it.

My only regret is I picked one of my remaining emitters at random, instead of testing all of them to see which one I like best. This one is floodier (a bit too floody for my taste) and ever so slightly less smooth compared to the emitter I put in my Inova Microlight.

I'll put up a before and after photo later. I also have a couple in-process photos in case anyone else is interested in modding this light.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 26, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> I just found a mini mag 2AAA clone lying around.
> ....
> When I showed the before and after on the Yuji modded minimag clone to my son (who also loves flashlights), he questioned right away that he thought I put an LED in there. When I said that I did but it is a special Yuji LED, he said that it looks the same color as the incandescent bulb that was in there. Even to the untrained eye, Yugi's tint and CRI is super close to incandescent.



Nice. I'm impressed it works as well as you say on direct drive. I actually took a look at the flashlight display at Home Depot last time I was there to see if the Dorcy was still around, based on your recommendation. No dice.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 26, 2017)

A 3-way comparison for the Sunwayman of before, after, and the Fenix E01, which is a surprising amount different from the Sunwayman with the same basic type of emitter. Look at those obnoxious side lobes from the tip internal reflections on the stock R01A emitter!

My RAW converter is measuring a lower color temperature than specified for the Yuji. I'm not sure if I happened to get an outlier, or if it's simply that even dedicated photography tools don't measure color temperature very precisely.

The two Nichia GS shots are edited to a 5200K (Nikon in-camera daylight) white balance. The Yuji mod is shown at 4000K because this is much closer to how it looks to me. Our adaptive eyes perceive things differently than the absolute nature of the camera sometimes renders them.

Tailcap current is about 60mA on a full alkaline battery. With a half-discharged battery (1.35V), it looks like about 80mA, but I had a couple weird, high measurements (up to 160 mA) I couldn't make sense of.

LED current is 23 mA on either battery, so it looks like the regulation is pretty good.







All 3 photos at F/5, 1/160s, ISO 200


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## gurdygurds (Mar 26, 2017)

That's awesome. Hell of a difference. Enjoy it!


iamlucky13 said:


> A 3-way comparison for the Sunwayman of before, after, and the Fenix E01, which is a surprising amount different from the Sunwayman with the same basic type of emitter. Look at those obnoxious side lobes from the tip internal reflections on the stock R01A emitter!
> 
> My RAW converter is measuring a lower color temperature than specified for the Yuji. I'm not sure if I happened to get an outlier, or if it's simply that even dedicated photography tools don't measure color temperature very precisely.
> 
> ...


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## TinderBox (UK) (Mar 29, 2017)

Are 5mm led`s any more efficient than they were 10 years ago, I remember the 5mm led`s use to pull around 20ma, If they are how many ma for the same lumen.

John.


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## LeanBurn (Mar 29, 2017)

That looks awesome gurdygurds !!

Sunwayman R01A = unobtainium here in Canada, well for a reasonable price anyway. 

Are there any other 1AAA regulated candidates housing a 5mm Nichia that could work with the Yuji  I really want to put one in a 1AAA format.


Regarding the direct drive, I had been using 2xAAA "used" alkalines to power the Dorcy Pen and the modded Mag-Lite clone. I tried a fresh set of Amaloops and the light output dropped to 75-80% that of the unfresh alkalines. There were no issues and the LEDs are still performing perfectly, I just found that particularly interesting. 

I wonder what kinds of run-times you would get with the R01A due to its regulation. Would it be the same as the Nichia it replaced? I should do a run time with 2AAA alkalines vs 2AAA Amaloops and see what I can get and compare with the R01A.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 29, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> Are there any other 1AAA regulated candidates housing a 5mm Nichia that could work with the Yuji  I really want to put one in a 1AAA format.




I got mine from GoingGear. I don't know if they ship to Canada or not.

The Nitecore T0 might be unpotted, but I haven't been able to confirm that.



> I wonder what kinds of run-times you would get with the R01A due to its regulation. Would it be the same as the Nichia it replaced? I should do a run time with 2AAA alkalines vs 2AAA Amaloops and see what I can get and compare with the R01A.



Tailcap currents were similar before and after, so I expect the runtimes should be close to equivalent.

I don't have time at the moment to do a runtime test, but I did find somebody else who tested one as running 7 hours with an Eneloop:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ct-Review-Sunwayman-R01A&p=3779922&viewfull=1




TinderBox (UK) said:


> Are 5mm led`s any more efficient than they were 10 years ago, I remember the 5mm led`s use to pull around 20ma, If they are how many ma for the same lumen.



20mA is still the normal rating level for most 5mm LED's, but Yuji says theirs can handle at least 30mA. Nichia makes also makes a more powerful version of their GS actually rated at 140mA.

I don't know about efficiency. I wondered that myself recently, but most 5mm datasheets seem to give only center beam candela, not lumens, which is not enough data to compare.


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## Hondo (Mar 30, 2017)

When Nichia came out with the CS 5mm LED in around 2005, it was a huge leap in output at the same power level, at least 100% increase. Their DS and GS series since then pushed that incrementally higher, but not with the giant leap the CS achieved. Other makers like Cree and Yuji seem to be keeping up with the level of efficiency of the latest Nichia offerings.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Mar 30, 2017)

I remember seeing some huge 10-20mm red led`s super sized version of an 5mm led, I would have loved to see a flashlight based on white version of those just for the freaky look value.

John.


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## Lynx_Arc (Mar 30, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I remember seeing some huge 10-20mm red led`s super sized version of an 5mm led, I would have loved to see a flashlight based on white version of those just for the freaky look value.
> 
> John.


You can get 10mm LED based flashlights, Rayovac makes a 2AA LED light for $2 (or less) that comes with batteries that has a PR base drop in and you can transplant it in other lights but beware it won't work great in just any light (focus issues).


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## iamlucky13 (Jul 27, 2017)

For anyone interested, I created a guide for doing an emitter swap in the Sunwayman R01A. Some of the information might be helpful for other 5mm-based lights.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...0-Sunwayman-R01A-Emitter-Swap-(with-pictures)


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## zs&tas (Sep 1, 2017)

:shrug: just picked up another cheap x5 as new 2003 . its my 5th ? There all different and i like them all .


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## snakebite (Dec 7, 2019)

its been a while.
any fade to report?


iamlucky13 said:


> The hideous blue nightlight I mentioned above has now gone under the soldering iron. I disconnected one leg and measured 13 mA before the mod, so the power level looks appropriate for the Yuji.
> 
> The bad tint had long bothered me, but I hadn't presumed just how bad it was until I used my camera to try to figure out the color temperature and found it so blue dominant that I couldn't get a consistent measurement. The Yuji is also brighter.
> 
> Two pictures are worth two thousand words:


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## FRITZHID (Dec 7, 2019)

i swapped out 2 in a nightlight and one in my fridge ice/water dispenser that run 24/7 for over 2 yrs now and no notable fade or tint shift at 20mA on the nightlight and 25mA on the fridge (tho the fridge LED is slightly warm to the touch whereas the nightlight LEDs are not.).


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## iamlucky13 (Dec 7, 2019)

snakebite said:


> its been a while.
> any fade to report?



Not that I can discern. It's still working just fine. Mine is a motion sensor nightlight, though, so it's only on a few minutes each day. FritzHID's experience is the more telling one.


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