# Hid BeamShots - Helios - XeRay 50 - X990 - PL24 - SuperNova - Crocodile



## cmacclel (Nov 11, 2006)

I got together with member Radio today we made a few lights and managed to fit some HID beamshots in. All lights where aimed at the base of the tree which was 100 yards away. All shots where taken with a Canon 20D DSLR in full manual mode so the exposure was locked for each shot.


Mac
Combined Image (Thanks Lips!)












Full Images

First up the Baseline shot







Wolf Eyes Crocodile on High (3400 Lumens)






Wolf Eyes Crocodile on Low (2000 Lumens)






Helios






XeRay 50 watt (GE Lamp *standard*)






SureFire M6






AeLight PL24 24 watt HID






SuperNova Tight Focus (Maxabeam Clone)






SuperNova Medium Focus






SuperNova Wide Focus






For Comparison my "Torch" Osram 100watt in a mag host.






X990 Narrow Focus






X990 Wide Focus


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## MorpheusT1 (Nov 11, 2006)

Sweet!!!



Man i want a Helios 
Thanks for the Beamshots Mac.


How would you say the K2000R compares to the AE24?

I have ordered a K2000R but after putting two and two together assuming the K2000R is about as bright as the AE light im not as exited as i were.



I know i am comparing BB Guns to Rockets here so all in all the K2000R maybe isnt such a bad choice for the price and size.



Benny


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## cmacclel (Nov 11, 2006)

Benny

My K2000R write up and comparion with the PL24 Shorty.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=123549&highlight=k2000r+review

Mac


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## MorpheusT1 (Nov 12, 2006)

Ahh, 
Thanks Mac.


Ofcource how could i forget,i have read that review about 100 times already.
The Helios Beam must have formatted my brain for a sec there.




Crap now i want a Helios even more..
The K2000R and AE24 looks like Stock Maglites compared to the Big-Guns,lol.





Benny


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## mtbkndad (Nov 12, 2006)

Great shots Mac. :thumbsup:

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## FILA BRAZILIA (Nov 12, 2006)

Excellent work Mac! Actually, the biggest surprise for me after comparing the beamshots, was how good the X990 performs. It didn`t get "smashed" by the big boys. (Of course, The Helios and XeRay is another league of lights, but not THAT better as I thought). BTW; I want to apologize for how I brought up the "No-answer-to-those-PM`s" (I am sure you know what I talk about). 
Keep up the excellent work :goodjob: FILA.


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## cmacclel (Nov 12, 2006)

I just added a combined shot thanks to Lips.

Mac


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## Radio (Nov 12, 2006)

Very Nice!!!!! I liked the combined shot, I know it was a lot of extra work but it looks like it was worth it!!!! After playing with all the lights I must say ergonomically the Polarion Helios was the easiest to use and with the Hot Restrike feature was my favorite. I was extremely happy with the X990 bang for the buck, gotta add that one to my list!!


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## D-Dog (Nov 12, 2006)

WOW, it makes me want an X990 all the more after seeing how the M6/other 500 lumen lights just can't compete with the "Big Boys". Also, just an observation, Was the Supernova not running up to par, as I remember seeing it MUCH, MUCH brighter in this thread. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/77499&page=1&pp=30


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## cmacclel (Nov 12, 2006)

D-Dog said:


> WOW, it makes me want an X990 all the more after seeing how the M6/other 500 lumen lights just can't compete with the "Big Boys". Also, just an observation, Was the Supernova not running up to par, as I remember seeing it MUCH, MUCH brighter in this thread. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/77499&page=1&pp=30




The Super Nova was running fine. The problem when taking beamshots is you need to adjust the camera setting for the Brightest light so the images will not be blown out (over saturated). The Beamshot pictures do not represent how the lights look in person. What these beamshots do is give a an accurate way to compare lights to each other.

Mac


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## D-Dog (Nov 12, 2006)

cmacclel said:


> The Super Nova was running fine. The problem when taking beamshots is you need to adjust the camera setting for the Brightest light so the images will not be blown out (over saturated). The Beamshot pictures do not represent how the lights look in person. What these beamshots do is give a an accurate way to compare lights to each other.
> 
> Mac



Ok, that makes sense, thanks for the explanation


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## NewBie (Nov 12, 2006)

There is a big problem here, if you look, the sky keeps changing colors, and some of those lights do have greater difference in beam color than shown. It looks like the white balance was not locked?


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## cmacclel (Nov 12, 2006)

NewBie said:


> There is a big problem here, if you look, the sky keeps changing colors, and some of those lights do have greater difference in beam color than shown. It looks like the white balance was not locked?



Yes it was brought to my attention about the White balance. The camera was it auto white balance. 

I talked to radio that was there last night and we both agree the colors shown seem accurate.

Also I can't really see a big difference of the sky on my screen? Some pictures do look different but that seems to be the different cloud cover. There where clouds in the sky.

Mac


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## Kiessling (Nov 12, 2006)

Great comparison, thanx !! :thumbsup:

Interesting that the old veteran X990 is still up there ...

bernie


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 12, 2006)

That was sweet, simple, and very well done. Fabulous job in showing combined pix and all the separate detail shots. For some reason I thought the M6 would have done a little better....but the XeRay was great showing the standard GE bulb, and with its focus shows the beam pattern contrast with the Helios very well. X990 is a proud little brother of the group! Thanks again for keeping the text commentary to a minimum, which lets the pix do the talking.

:rock::rock::rock:


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## cmacclel (Nov 12, 2006)

Lips did a great job combining the pictures 

Thanks Mac


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## cmacclel (Nov 12, 2006)

Only thing I forgot like an Idiot was to shoot the XeRay in flood mode....Duh!

Mac


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 12, 2006)

It's too ugly a mode to even bother with. Same with the SuperNova wide view. I did like the sharp corona and focus of the XeRay so you don't see the wire shadow. That focus point is how I use mine.


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## FILA BRAZILIA (Nov 12, 2006)

Would you consider taking 200-yards- beamshots of these lights later, Mac?


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## cmacclel (Nov 12, 2006)

FILA BRAZILIA said:


> Would you consider taking 200-yard beamshots of these lights later, Mac?



I would love to but If I could find a place that offered 200 yards. I'm right next to the city (Boston) so dimly illuminated fields are hard to come by 


Mac


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## 4sevens (Nov 13, 2006)




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## windstrings (Nov 17, 2006)

cmacclel said:


> Only thing I forgot like an Idiot was to shoot the XeRay in flood mode....Duh!
> 
> Mac



well I did notice the corona of the Xeray was very smooth without artifacts.... very nice pics! There are alot of variables with the focus!.... not all of them are perfect, but some are....


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## windstrings (Nov 17, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> It's too ugly a mode to even bother with. Same with the SuperNova wide view. I did like the sharp corona and focus of the XeRay so you don't see the wire shadow. That focus point is how I use mine.



Ditto.... I also appreciate the maxabeam clone being thrown in there.. .I now understand many of the post I"ve read about it in the past.


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## windstrings (Nov 17, 2006)

MorpheusT1 said:


> Ahh,
> Crap now i want a Helios even more..
> Benny



This was a most interesting pic of the Helios..... It confirmed what I"ve seen in othe pictures only bigger... the high res pics are nice!

Seems they really focus on lighting up the ground with possible lumens that would have been scattered into the sky... notice how the top is almost "chopped" off to give more light for the ground corona.
It is more magnified than the others..... even the distant sides are darker to give more light at your feet and surroundings.... a minus for distant throw to light up a large area, but a plus to light up immediate surroundings. A good choice in the mix of throw for a fixed beam.

The maxabeam clone is truely like looking thorugh a tube at the world... I never realized it was that tight... I mean with "no" corona and "no" spill... a solid perfectly round hole.... quite interesting.....


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## cmacclel (Nov 17, 2006)

With the Maxabeam clone you need to realize it's only a 500 lumen light and will out throw all of the big boys. Also the Med and Wide beam are ugly yes  but they are much brighter than the pictures show. The camera gets locked using the brightest light so these are not an accurate representation of what is actually seen.

Mac


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## windstrings (Nov 17, 2006)

cmacclel said:


> I would love to but If I could find a place that offered 200 yards. I'm right next to the city (Boston) so dimly illuminated fields are hard to come by
> Mac



Maybe you have a building you can go up several floors on and get out on the roof?..
If so, you could shoot over to some of the nearby buildings and hope the cops don't send a helicopter! :laughing:


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## windstrings (Nov 17, 2006)

ea


cmacclel said:


> With the Maxabeam clone you need to realize it's only a 500 lumen light and will out throw all of the big boys. Also the Med and Wide beam are ugly yes  but they are much brighter than the pictures show. The camera gets locked using the brightest light so these are not an accurate representation of what is actually seen.
> 
> Mac



thats whats difficult about mixing pictures from different scenes, cameras and F stop settings....but still they are very nice to see.

When comparing pics from so many lights with different outputs.. its pretty tough to find a middle road with fixed settings that does show some as blinding or some as so faint you can't see... like you said.. I"m sure its quite a challenge to get it to look like being there.

thanks for the pics.....I would love to be at one of these shootouts.. seems they are always too far away....


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 17, 2006)

Hey MAC, have you tried putting one of FiveMega's 2" deep reflectors, or 3.5" wide reflectors on your torch? That would tighten it up even more...but that is a very impressive output. Still would love to get one of those puppies.

I'm tempted to try and get together with you sometime, since I'm only 90 mins from Beantown.


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## Lips (Dec 29, 2006)

.



Adding some comparison shots of *MAC's* Beamshots...  



















.


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## BVH (Dec 29, 2006)

Lips, thats a great way to show comparisons! Well Done!!


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## larryk (Dec 29, 2006)

Very nice Lips.


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## NAW (Dec 29, 2006)

Is it just me or does it look like the X990 is actually throwing farther than the Helios? :huh2:


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## windstrings (Dec 29, 2006)

Lips said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very slick Lips!.... you deserve a commendation!.....

Those are even downloadable and still work perfectly....

thanks....


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## windstrings (Dec 29, 2006)

NAW said:


> Is it just me or does it look like the X990 is actually throwing farther than the Helios? :huh2:



Not so much farthur, look only at the bottom half of the shot.. the top half of the helios is chopped to add lumens to the bottom.

It looks like the lumen intensity at the bottom of the tree is very close to the same, but the Helios is lacking in the top area of the shot "where the viewing is usually not needed" but in return has massive smooth corona as the tradeoff and so appears as more light.... along with thier high quality reflector of course.


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## XeRay (Dec 29, 2006)

windstrings said:


> Not so much farthur, look only at the bottom half of the shot.. the top half of the helios is chopped to add lumens to the bottom.
> 
> It looks like the lumen intensity at the bottom of the tree is very close to the same, but the Helios is lacking in the top area of the shot "where the viewing is usually not needed".


 
I guess what you are saying, the handled Helios is oriented correctly by the nature of the handle position. The other Helios with no handle you have to rotate it until the light beam pattern is oriented in the preferred position.


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## windstrings (Dec 29, 2006)

XeRay said:


> I guess what you are saying, the handled Helios is oriented correctly by the nature of the handle position. The other Helios with no handle you have to rotate it until the light beam pattern is oriented in the preferred position.


 
Unless I'm hallucinating.. thats right.. plus the non handled by those I've spoken with and read about feel its very front heavy like carrying a big fat stick.. so I would not prefer that version.

The pattern is similiar to looking down on a pie and having someone cut a "greedy piece" out of the bottom removing approx a little over 1/3rd of the pie...The part thats cut out is the lighted area. I see the wisdom in casting those otherwise wasted lumens "in most applications" and casting them down at the aforeground to add extra there. Hence the nice pattern they do have that provides a very full corona on the ground.... the highly polished reflector adds too to give a nice lumen "on the ground" output with only 40 watts and a 3.25" reflector. Its a nice "choice" they picked, but its obviously not without a cost.. as most modifications.

The Helios is an awesome light.. I wish I had one... but I don't know the real story on the non handled ones.. I would think it would be quite frustrating figuring it out in the dark.. I guess the corona itself would be the clue.
I too would be curious to hear from someone who actually "has" the non handled version.


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 29, 2006)

I love turning two jpg images into a gif which is easy to do....amazing how it enhances ability to compare. Nice treat, Lips !!


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## mtbkndad (Dec 30, 2006)

XeRay said:


> I guess what you are saying, the handled Helios is oriented correctly by the nature of the handle position. The other Helios with no handle you have to rotate it until the light beam pattern is oriented in the preferred position.



It is an illusion created by the pattern of the corona and hotspot. The Helios beam is round so the unhandled Helios can be held in any postion without any concern for the beam pattern. The unhandled Helios does feel VERY front heavy to me. Even more so then holding the handled version by the body. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## frogs3 (Dec 30, 2006)

*Re: Overlapped Beamshots*

Dear Lips,

I would love to know how to do that comparison of time-lapse beamshots, as each feature of the landscape can be visually "overlapped" so easily.

One observation that was clear was that the 40 w Helios seems to have a lot more lumens going into a wider beam than the 35 w X990, although a careful look at the center ray does not show much difference in brightness. That small 5 w difference is very effectively translated into a lot of lumens in the Helios, which the pictures demonstrate.

Another point is that the 40 w Helios has a strong showing against the 50 w XeRay with the major difference that I see being a brighter central ray and smaller overall width of the beam for the XeRay. If those photons were spread out the same as the Helios, I wonder if there would be any central brightness difference, despite the input power differential.

I would like to add my thanks for the elegant comparison you provided, and wish everyone a VERY BRIGHT and happy New Year.

-Harvey K.


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## BVH (Dec 30, 2006)

Frogs three, your observations are right on the money! Mtbkndad has beamshots of the Xeray 50 focused out to simulate the size of the Helios beam and they are overall, very close in performance - I think the edge goes to the Xeray. I'll try to find the link and post it here.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=143313


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## cmacclel (Dec 30, 2006)

The XeRay is Defintely brighter. The Helios has good throw with excellent flood. If the Distance was increased to say 400 yards the XeRay would be noticably brighter.


Mac


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## mtbkndad (Dec 30, 2006)

I made a LARGE lightbox for the Stunner review I did.
It can handle spotlights. The next time BVH and I get together we will measure the light output of all of these lights in the box.
It obviously is not an integrating sphere but will do good job of giving us relative brightness comparisons of all of the lights we have between the two of us.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 30, 2006)

mtbkndad said:


> I made a LARGE lightbox for the Stunner review I did.
> It can handle spotlights. The next time BVH and I get together we will measure the light output of all of these lights in the box.
> It obviously is not an integrating sphere but will do good job of giving us relative brightness comparisons of all of the lights we have between the two of us.
> 
> ...



That will be very interesting to see. Surprising that no one has an integrating sphere setup to most accurately measure all these spotlights, given the plethora of light enthusiasts/dealers/manufacturers who visit this forum. Also, what kind of photometer do you use?


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## mtbkndad (Dec 30, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> That will be very interesting to see. Surprising that no one has an integrating sphere setup to most accurately measure all these spotlights, given the plethora of light enthusiasts/dealers/manufacturers who visit this forum.



The problem is the cost of the size of shpere needed to measure the light output of a spotlight that has an eleven inch front end (Costco/Harbor Freight). 
I am going to make one modification to the inside of my box that will help keep readings very consistent when measuring the light output of these big lights. I have a platform made for one of my camera tripods that will enable me to be sure all of the spotlights are in the exact same orientation. The last thing I need to do is make cut outs for the lights I have to minimize the time needed when BVH and I get together.

I also plan on taking lux readings at around 35 feet ( my shop is only 40 feet long).
This will give me a bettter idea of what these beam patterns are like.
For instance the best focused of my Costco HID's has lux reading of around 7600 at 37 feet. However, the part of the beam that is around 7600 is only about 5/8" in diameter at that distance. 
Even at 546 yards that particular Costco HID has a hotspot that is only about 15 to 20 feet in diameter.

With a little time BVH and I could get real good readings and understanding of just what these beams are doing.

Of course I do have one potential big problem.
I do not yet own an X1 and I have not asked BVH if he is willing to take the time to bring his lights (Helios and XeRay) and help me do all of this.    .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Dec 30, 2006)

Not a problem on my side. It'll be fun. It would be good to wait until after (depending on delivery time) I get the 75 ballast so we can measure the 50 and 75 watt Xerays. I want to upgrade them both but will leave one at 50 for the test. Got your wagon yet? or maybe we could arrange a heli drop?


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## windstrings (Dec 30, 2006)

mtbkndad said:


> I also plan on taking lux readings at around 35 feet
> mtbkndad :wave:



Oh don't do that.. I'm not sure his little baby face could take it!.... Do you have a meter that registers that much BS? :lolsign:


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## mtbkndad (Dec 30, 2006)

BVH said:


> Not a problem on my side. It'll be fun. It would be good to wait until after (depending on delivery time) I get the 75 ballast so we can measure the 50 and 75 watt Xerays. I want to upgrade them both but will leave one at 50 for the test. Got your wagon yet? or maybe we could arrange a heli drop?



What is the eta for your Barn Burner upgrade.

I am going to have to get the wagon soon  .
Harbor Freight had one on sale for $50 but I was busy on a job at the time.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## XeRay (Dec 30, 2006)

mtbkndad said:


> What is the eta for your Barn Burner upgrade.


 
Mr Ted Bear has one.


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## mtbkndad (Dec 31, 2006)

XeRay said:


> Mr Ted Bear has one.



Good point. I will contact him about loaning it to me or joining us for an evening of tests when BVH and I know when we will be getting together.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 31, 2006)

windstrings said:


> Oh don't do that.. I'm not sure his little baby face could take it!.... Do you have a meter that registers that much BS? :lolsign:



I made a gif of my own...LOL!


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## windstrings (Dec 31, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> I made a gif of my own...LOL!



Hey.. wait a minute.... how did you get a picture of me in the morning before I get my coffee???

And my hair is not even combed... now you've really done it..... :scowl:


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## 65535 (Dec 31, 2006)

Hmm It looked to me liek he missed with the Helios as i am fairley sure that it has a round beam so I think it jsut fell a ltitle that dern gravity suckign the beam into the groudn or maybe it was teh flashlight :shrug:


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## cmacclel (Jan 1, 2007)

65535 said:


> Hmm It looked to me liek he missed with the Helios as i am fairley sure that it has a round beam so I think it jsut fell a ltitle that dern gravity suckign the beam into the groudn or maybe it was teh flashlight :shrug:



The Hotspot of every light was focused at the base of the tree. If the Helios doesn't illuminate the base of the tree it means it's hotspot is not as bright as a light that does 

Mac


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## windstrings (Jan 1, 2007)

cmacclel said:


> The Hotspot of every light was focused at the base of the tree. If the Helios doesn't illuminate the base of the tree it means it's hotspot is not as bright as a light that does
> 
> Mac



Correction... thats the "crotch" of the tree.....:laughing:


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## jax (Sep 21, 2010)

well my favorite beam is mac's torch,with its wide angle floody spill,and no over bright hotspot which in some case's is useless for what i need my flashlights to do....which is walking and exploring wolf/bear occupied forests where i live in remote ontario..but who am i kidding i am using a fenix tk11 r5 for this now....


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