# LED Lenser X21 REVIEW



## maxim0200 (May 20, 2009)

Hi all, 
I just purchased the LED Lenser X21.
I thought I might pop a review for you guys to drool over (i know i do).

The manufactures blurb:


> _This masterpiece is another milestone in our company history. The LED LENSER® X21 will cause a sensation _
> 
> _because it allows for a whole range of new applications in light engineering. The lamp has a light _
> 
> ...


 After shopping around the various stores in my city the recommended retail price was around 699$ and when talking to the shops the best i could get it down to was 650$ in the end i purchased this lil beauty for 549$ AUD off eBay from a seller in Perth (I suspect the price was so cheap because they might import them directly from Germany and are not using the Australian importer ZEN imports). 
Postage was 20$ registered and 4$ insurance.

For a torch 573$ is allot of money to spend (luckily the Rudd government paid for mine =D with the 900$ economy stimulus package)

*Performance*
This torch has a excellent performance, outstrips a 4 D-Cell maglite many fold.
I took it outside recently and I reached a visible 200m range at night (confirmed by Google earth, im sure it can go further but I have not had a chance to see as of yet)

*Build quality*
Case is made up from metal aluminum I do believe, it has a solid high quality feel, and much like one of the old maglite’s that security guards carry around as a weapon.

*Packaging *
The torch was well packed. It came in a black plastic case, solid enough construction to protect the torch during normal wear and tear. The hinges for it are plastic so im not sure how long they will last.

*Thoughts/Comments/Experiences*
This is an excellent torch, I keep it in the boot of the car for those occasions that you need a torch and this exceeds what I was expecting out of this torch.

I can say this torch is pretty drunk proof and 

The switch is a 3 state switch (off - low beam - high beam) I do like this function but the switch is extremely sensitive and I have accidentally blinded myself many times.

On my torch I have applied some glow tape to locate the torch in the dark; this can be seen in the pictures as the thick green tape.

In the pictures I have compared the LED Lenser X21 to the LED Lenser Hokus-Focus and the Maglite 2X C cell.


*Pictures *(apologies on the quality)

Box & Torch

Torch& Paperwork

Torch Comparisons. Left to right, LED Lenser Hokus-Focus, Maglite 2X C cell, LED Lenser X21







My attempt at beam shot on narrow beam (can vaguely see it in the dust)


Shining torch at hand at full brightness.

*The following pictures are with the cameras auto adjust ON (no real comparison between beam intensity).*

Narrow Beam (Spot)


Wide Beam (Flood)


*The following pictures are with the cameras auto adjust OFF (black image included for reference)*
Narrow Beam (Spot)

Off


Low


High

Wide Beam (Flood)

Off

Low


High

*The following pictures are comparisons between the 3 lights I have*

X21 & maglite

X21(Left) & Hokus(Right)

*Glow Tape*

Charging glow tape on x21


Charged section of glow tape

Full length of glow tape
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] *Conclusions*
Excellent torch, hope you enjoyed my review, please message me if you have any requests, comments, questions and I will do my best to answer them =]

maXim:twothumbs


_Over sized images deleted_

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/Rules.html#siglines


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## makapuu (May 20, 2009)

Thanks for the pictures.
Any chance for some outside beamshots.


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## yellow (May 20, 2009)

I would not dare to post such crappy pics


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## TITAN1833 (May 20, 2009)

yellow said:


> I would not dare to post such crappy pics


So we have a professional in the house,care to share your pictures


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## SureAddicted (May 20, 2009)

yellow said:


> I would not dare to post such crappy pics




That is not called for. If you don't have anything constructive to add stay out of the thread.

maxim0200, good job with the review and pics, keep it up pal.


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## TITAN1833 (May 20, 2009)

SureAddicted said:


> That is not called for. If you don't have anything constructive to add stay out of the thread.
> 
> maxim0200, good job with the review and pics, keep it up pal.


+1 that's what I wanted to say :twothumbs but! anger got the better of me


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## Mjolnir (May 20, 2009)

Any chance of some outside beamshots comparing the flood mode and spot mode?


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## monkeyboy (May 20, 2009)

Good job on the review and :welcome: maxim0200

I can assure you that your efforts are very much appreciated here on CPF. Maximum picture size is 800x800 pixels BTW.

What interests me about this light is that the spot to flood optic actually appears to work effectively. Do you notice any light loss when changing the focus? Also, is the light regulated? i.e. does the light gradually dim as the battery depletes or does it maintain full brightness then dim down suddenly?


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## TITAN1833 (May 20, 2009)

hey! monkey were you not living in Scotland awhile back? :thinking:

Apologises to maxim0200 for being off topic


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## Gunner12 (May 20, 2009)

Thanks for the review!

As a reminder, the rules say not picture larger then 800x600, so you'll have to tweak the picture to fit withint this rule.

:welcome:


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## jimmy1970 (May 20, 2009)

Boy, this thing is a beast! And it's a big brute - it's almost twice the length of my TK40! Get some good NIMH rechargable D cells and your away!! 

James...:thumbsup:


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## maxim0200 (May 20, 2009)

Hello again, thank you for your comments, this weekend I will try to take it out and get some outside beam shots to you, (I will also try to hunt down a better camera).



> I can assure you that your efforts are very much appreciated here on CPF. Maximum picture size is 800x800 pixels BTW.
> 
> What interests me about this light is that the spot to flood optic actually appears to work effectively. Do you notice any light loss when changing the focus? Also, is the light regulated? i.e. does the light gradually dim as the battery depletes or does it maintain full brightness then dim down suddenly?


I will post pics in smaller size next time (i did not realise the limit, apologies)
Yes the flood is verry effective it dose not have any hotspots as the 7 LEDS somehow blend with eachother.
When focusing (pulling the sleeve foward on the front of the torch) about half way there is a hot spot 'ring' around the center.
When fully focused ther is a verry bright spot of the 7 LED'd focused together with not to much spray.

I do believe it is not regulated, as the blurb dosent mention anything and when i cracked the front of it open i could not see any electronic chips, i havent ran it down yet so im unsure on that front.
ovuious.

Took this torch on a coast trip, we were flashing it around in a drunk state and verry convinently we saw 2 police hellicopters on the horison, i immediatly stashed the torch away as soon as i saw them and then sat around shitting myself watching them fly around our part of the coast with wheir kick *** floods. iff it was us i think we might have accidently flashed an aeroplane or a ship.
Are these pictures 800x 600?

Pics of the hellicopter





Its that blue thing





Its that red thing
*
Pictures of X21*
I have taken a couple more pictures with an iPhone (2MP camera instead of that horrible aldi, noname 5mp camera)
























































I shall post outside pics as soon as i can, check back in a week or so and i should of done it by then =]

maXim:twothumbs


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## maxim0200 (May 20, 2009)

jimmy1970 said:


> Boy, this thing is a beast! And it's a big brute - it's almost twice the length of my TK40! Get some good NIMH rechargable D cells and your away!!
> 
> James...:thumbsup:



I went to battery world (battery store here in aus) and they dont have any D size NIMH only NIcad, I dont want to use NIcad they take to long to recharge and they have a memory. anyway all they could offer me was hight mA AA's with a plastic insert so they fit in a D Cell. 
Also the NIMH run at a lower voltage than the disposable ones so it wont be as bright (apparently).
Can anyone shead some light on this? like how AA's would perform?

Thanks,
maXim :twothumbs:


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## houtex (May 20, 2009)

so it operates on 6 volts? someone could make a 2x123 body for it then huh?


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## MattK (May 20, 2009)

maxim0200 said:


> I went to battery world (battery store here in aus) and they dont have any D size NIMH only NIcad, I dont want to use NIcad they take to long to recharge and they have a memory. anyway all they could offer me was hight mA AA's with a plastic insert so they fit in a D Cell.
> Also the NIMH run at a lower voltage than the disposable ones so it wont be as bright (apparently).
> Can anyone shead some light on this? like how AA's would perform?
> 
> ...



I would not recommend that - it's way too much current for 4 x NiMh AA's. You need real D cells, and not the 2500-3500mah NiMh kind (they're just sub C's in a casing) - either NiCd 5000mah+ or NiMh 8000mah+ - more is better. Not a factory recommend solution FWIW but I think there's many reports of it working just fine.



houtex said:


> so it operates on 6 volts? someone could make a 2x123 body for it then huh?



no - 123'a can't safely move that much current - same problem as above


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## Ryanrpm (May 20, 2009)

All I got to say is....that's a large light.

BTW, use a tripod while taking those outdoor beamshots, and keep your light still by setting it on something as well. Blurry pics don't do the light or its potential justice.


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## yellow (May 21, 2009)

hey ppl, 
it might be fun for You to type funny things ...

I have quite a lot pics added to my posts (mostly in "modified") and I have NO artistry interest in my pics, also my equipment is almost crap, but at least they *are in focus* and thus one can really see something
(which these new ones are NOT, like the ones out of post #1 which are removed now)

but I must admit: not a single pic in focus - thats really an achievement


PS: dont You think all the impression and professionality of Your "review" could improve from showing pics that are sharp? 
If You use a cellular phone for taking them, put it 1/2 a meter back, take the pic and then cut the important part out and resize it.


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## maxim0200 (May 21, 2009)

yellow said:


> hey ppl,
> it might be fun for You to type funny things ...
> 
> I have quite a lot pics added to my posts (mostly in "modified") and I have NO artistry interest in my pics, also my equipment is almost crap, but at least they *are in focus* and thus one can really see something
> ...



I dont write reviews on a regular basis so i cannot expect any professionalism to come out of it just an opinion on what I think of this torch. I appreciate that you write good reviews but I don't have the experience nor the tools to do that so i do the best with what i can get.

As for my blury ness, i apologise AGAIN... but I blame the inside ones on the piece of s**t camera I used, and the outdoor ones, well i was rolling drunk with a s**t camera...
I shall re-shoot them when i have the chance:sigh:



Ryanrpm said:


> All I got to say is....that's a large light.
> 
> BTW, use a tripod while taking those outdoor beamshots, and keep your light still by setting it on something as well. Blurry pics don't do the light or its potential justice.



Thankyou for your constructive positive comment, i diddnt think about doing that but i will for when i do the outside shots.
Also for the outside shots i have a better camera lined up, 8MP i think (im borrowing it from a friend).

For those of you that are interested in seeing the original photos, http://s577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/maxim0200/
_(I would like to request that this link stay up as it may be inappropriate to have bad pictures on your web page but I do think its ok to let those still interested see them)_

-mattkk
now that you mention it I have heard of batteries exploding from over current draw.

maXim:twothumbs


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## maxim0200 (May 23, 2009)

Hello all again!
I went out into the night and took some pics, unfortunately these are all I could get because the camera's battery died 
*
Sewer Vent at 10m *(10 yards or 32 feet)




Sewer Vent Wide





Sewer-vent-narrow

*Sewer Vent at 83m* (90 Yards or 272 feet) *with trees behind at 140m* (153 Yards or 459 feet)




Narrow Focus high exposure





Narrow Focus





Medium focus





Wide focus

*Kangaroo’s and Other Things*




The kangaroo is roughly 50m (54 Yards, 164 Feet) away. can you see him? he is in the middle, check out my photo bucket (link at end of post) for higher-res pic.



























Hopefully these are better quality, I plan to recharge battery and go out again sometime. Any suggestions?
All photos can be found at http://s577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/maxim0200/

Please feel free to ask questions, il do what I can for requests!

Enjoy
maXim:twothumbs


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## adirondackdestroyer (May 23, 2009)

Nice beamshots. 

Kangaroo's? Unreal! Do you see them often, or are they a rare site? I could only imagine seeing them all over the place like most of us in the U.S. see Deer.


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## maxim0200 (May 23, 2009)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> Nice beamshots.
> 
> Kangaroo's? Unreal! Do you see them often, or are they a rare site? I could only imagine seeing them all over the place like most of us in the U.S. see Deer.



Yeah they are everywhere here, you might of seen some lights in the background, that's houses and a suburb, around there you have to be careful of hitting roos as you drive down the street, espically around the dry times because they come in to the area to eat your lawn.

maXim


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## jupello (May 23, 2009)

Some nice pics there..and cute little roos jumping around there too


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## adirondackdestroyer (May 23, 2009)

maxim0200 said:


> Yeah they are everywhere here, you might of seen some lights in the background, that's houses and a suburb, around there you have to be careful of hitting roos as you drive down the street, espically around the dry times because they come in to the area to eat your lawn.
> 
> maXim



Holy crap, might as well be Deer. It seems so weird that someone lives in a place where something so exotic is so common. 
I had 3 Deer walking through my backyard the other night, and the damn things drove my dog CRAZY! I will say it's rather shocking to walk in your backyard and see a set of eyes staring back at you. lol.


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## bullettproof (May 24, 2009)

What a Beautifil beam that X21 has .What Led's are in there and what are they driven at ?? That light is sweet!!!!!


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## Glenn7 (May 24, 2009)

Maxim0200 - you did a good job on the review and pix buddy thanks for sharing :thumbsup::thumbsup: 
Just for reference you/me/us owe no one any pictures or reviews or anything for that matter - so anything we do offer up on CPF is a bonus to any/all IMHO
BTW again this is just MO - but it takes guts/$ to even go buy a light in the first place - then you get everybody leaching info off you so they can make a decision to buy one or not - so again good on you buddy  

I don't mind ledlensers - but they do need NiMH to have some form of regulation - but as you will find on CPF there are some trolls around that hate LL's and dont mind saying so when ever they can :shakehead don't listen - nice light!!


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## Badbeams3 (May 24, 2009)

maxim0200 said:


> I can say this torch is pretty drunk proof and



I prefer a light that can come down to my level when drinking :drunk: 
Wow that thing is crazy bright! Thanks for the review. I had no idea Led Lenser made light monster like this. Wow...nice!


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## maxim0200 (May 24, 2009)

Glenn7 said:


> Maxim0200 - you did a good job on the review and pix buddy thanks for sharing :thumbsup::thumbsup:
> Just for reference you/me/us owe no one any pictures or reviews or anything for that matter - so anything we do offer up on CPF is a bonus to any/all IMHO
> BTW again this is just MO - but it takes guts/$ to even go buy a light in the first place - then you get everybody leaching info off you so they can make a decision to buy one or not - so again good on you buddy
> 
> I don't mind ledlensers - but they do need NiMH to have some form of regulation - but as you will find on CPF there are some trolls around that hate LL's and dont mind saying so when ever they can :shakehead don't listen - nice light!!



Thank you for your support, I agree with you about the fact that it needs regulation of some sort, they slowly die and you dont notice it at 1st then when you put new batteries in it shocks you every time!

bullettproof - im unsure, but it takes 4 D cell batteries

adirondackdestroyer - yeah the roos are weird things with the bouncing and all, strangely enough they go under wire fences insted of over, they must of learned that the barbed wire ontop of them hurts, but then again youd think theyd jump over.... as for deer, thatd just be weird!

maXim


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## BigTennisBall (Jun 17, 2009)

Which website did you buy this from???


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## maxim0200 (Jun 17, 2009)

hey, i got it from a company in Perth,
they were not very good... they only replied to a couple of the emails before i transfered the money... after that i diddnt get any response to my emails questioning why it took so long. i would not reccomend buying through these people.

the company is called Rtech http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/Rteck-Australia__W0QQ_armrsZ1 there is their ebay shop, i think they also have an online shop as well.

as i say cheap products, but it comes at a price.

maXim:twothumbs


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## Shimon (Jun 17, 2009)

This looks like a pretty nice flashlight, although it's probably overkill if you use it while walking around the neighborhood?

How bright is the low setting on this?


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## maxim0200 (Jun 17, 2009)

Shimon said:


> This looks like a pretty nice flashlight, although it's probably overkill if you use it while walking around the neighborhood?
> 
> How bright is the low setting on this?



yeah its very nicely made, and yes its massive overkill for walking around the streets, but damn it feels awesome!

fairly bright, i dont have a lumen meter to find out its output unfortunately.

maXim:twothumbs


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 17, 2009)

Is it regulated?


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## maxim0200 (Jul 5, 2009)

More Pics,
There was a prety epic fog so i thought id get out me torch for some glam shots!, (iphone camera shots used because thats all i had)



























Also, as previously discussed its not regulated =]

Enjoy,
maXim :twothumbs


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## SemperFi (Jul 12, 2009)

TQ Maxim. I came across this X21 only today thru another forumer from another forum and I've been on this flasher since this afternoon...WoW!!! I'm onto this for sure. Good job on yr efforts to share with us yr thrill and I'm sure, most do enjoy and can relate the excitement those 7 mini hobbits does when they "throw" UP!!!:devil: 

I haven't got mine yet but will pretty soon after comparing several offers to opt on. 

I had my Fenix T1 proved itself within the Forbidden City in Beijing, China and it was applauded by many that had some hard time figuring the inside of a Concubine's quarters when we tried to look through... thanks to the T1, it made all the difference and cheers and esp. smiles with clicks, clicks of many digicams & P & S cams... I felt good having it brought along on that holiday. 

In Gibraltar last month, up on the Upper Rock itself, I had the TK40 which I bought from UK, just prior to my Spanish Holiday. this other Fenix came and conquered another quest... revealing a hidden and pitch-dark cave room that is a sick-bay but no one knew about its location nor presence... well not until I suspected something. I dished out my TK40 and probed and VOILA... to my amazement, two wax soldiers appeared inside which otherwise, cannot be detected by any naked eye despite the dim lighting on the walls... but this was eerily blocked off from any light. 

The others who were close and around me (tourists themselves) all exclaimed amazement & surprise and they too started quickly snapping pics like I did, one hand holding this heavier Fenix buggar while the other snapped away from my Lumix FX-07. 

I now look forward to the caves in and around Waitomo, Rotorua in New Zealand where I'm heading there soon again for another holiday, my 3rd honeymoon holiday & this being our 28th Anniv together this October. 

I appreciate what you tried capturing with yr X21 and I will join yr thread to post mine to support yr Intro of this LED Lenser :thumbsup: when I returned later in November... after attending Deep Purple and Fleetwood Mac's Concerts.


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## toby_pra (Jul 13, 2009)

Very nice review and great beamshots! 

IMO is this light perhaps a little too big. I think i can reach this output
also with a smaller light. The used battery's are not really uptodate,or?


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## SemperFi (Jul 14, 2009)

toby_pra said:


> Very nice review and great beamshots!
> 
> IMO is this light perhaps a little too big. I think i can reach this output
> also with a smaller light. The used battery's are not really uptodate,or?



I agree with yr view on its length. It is just as long as the Cullmann mono-pod I carry in my backpack from Targus which will now easily accept another "flashy" dude for the trekkings... 

I just have to consider only one set of extra D cells for backup unlike the many but tiny sizes(RCR123s and AAs) that I also have hooked up by my hip belt. 
Can anyone advise/recommend which to buy as standard and rechargeable for the D size to support the X21? I'm looking at Duracell for the standard cell but which other brand is safe on rechargeables? 

I ordered my X21 yesterday, online and it will be delivered pretty soon.


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## maxim0200 (Jul 14, 2009)

toby_pra said:


> Very nice review and great beamshots!
> 
> IMO is this light perhaps a little too big. I think i can reach this output
> also with a smaller light. The used battery's are not really uptodate,or?



Oh yes you can get more lumens fror a smaller size, like a HID one but i wanted the leds. It also has that wow effect when people see it for the first time, (sorta a primal mynes bigger than yours thing . ) 
Yes it is unfortunate it isnt rechargible batteries and regulators arnt used, then again there is less to go wrong in it. 

Unfortunatly i do not have a lumen meter aviaible to me so i cannot confirm or deny the lumen output by the manafacturer, but it wouldnt be the first time that a manafacturer over spected a prouduct.

Semperfi - it takes a true ammount of guts to buy one of these torchez, but hooly dooley its awsome!! (iff you ever feel bad about the price you paid just take it outside and have a play n impress yourself again, i know it works for me!!)


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## toby_pra (Jul 14, 2009)

IIRC the Sceptre from Mag, also the Superflahslight V from Mike, are lights
that have around 1000Lumens...there are much taller. Or take a triple P7 Mag...:tinfoil:

But its a beast! :devil: With amazing throw, so seems to me.


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## SemperFi (Jul 15, 2009)

maxim0200 said:


> Semperfi -.....(iff you ever feel bad about the price you paid just take it outside and have a play n impress yourself again, i know it works for me!!)



I guess I will try spin around the back and do a donkey whiplash kick to the butt if it displayed nothing short of disappointments like being a flasher with no lights to call it a LED which we expect to prove as one.... thats the real rear end of a Murphy's madness showing before ones eyes 

However, being a calculated optimist I am and pragmatic with my purchases, it'll serve the collection should I see it unworthy anymore and how long or when I'll arrive at that remains to be seen. 
I do have the Polarion 4000 in my list too... :twothumbs 

For the moment, it is because I'm just getting the thrill with plenty of good and WhoaaahhH... feelings when in darky areas to enjoy the spectacle in places I am touring and snapping away pics&points of interests and a nice strong floodlight does do wonders complementing the surge blasting into a pit-hole for instance. 

I have this other regular strolls (patrolling if you will) taken with my guard dog and its a perfect match & companion when its clearing the path at night with awesome lighting. 

I'm trying to see and outfit my dog's headgear with a suitable and much smaller Fenix but with a minimum throw of 225 lumens for sure strap comfortably & perched firmly above its head so it'll have a fair thrill dancing and prancing with a flash of her own. :twothumbs


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## SemperFi (Jul 17, 2009)

Here's some significant snaps on my latest flashlight, a light bazooka that is handheld, it is the one most astounding pounder of power thrown at a distance which anyone can simply lay back and appreciating in awe...feeling and wishing within..., *"this is one torch I will like to have on the list, the following day!!!"*

Enjoy them, which I also took the liberty to throw the less powerful TK40 and T1, both from Fenix, next to the X21 LED Lenser, its awesome for just 950 Lumens. :thumbsup: 

My main light-armory for a start... 





Warming up..... 





Look, 7 LED thrusters.... 





Hold your breath now..... 





Nearby Christian church tower @ 195m distance..... 





Another few seconds to go..... 





No holds barred with the X21.....





When its getting darker too..... 





With the Fenix T1..... 





With the Fenix TK40..... 





The LED Lenser X21 leads again..... 





The beam goes easily beyond this tower....


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## maxim0200 (Aug 6, 2009)

Nice pictures!
thanks for also taking the time out and geting some more pics!
are you enjoying using the torch?


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## SemperFi (Aug 7, 2009)

maxim0200 said:


> Nice pictures!
> thanks for also taking the time out and geting some more pics!
> are you enjoying using the torch?



Sure does and my pleasure.:twothumbs As the X21 is not as hip-handy like my T1, it gets strap across & tucked under the arm.... like a hand-carry Uzi.

Wanted to last night but we had extraordinary fabulous temps that caused all arteries to the beach with some 45km jam-packed snail pace traffic crawl towards the beach head... and there's the parking search to put up with. 

Might try this evening and closer towards midnight at the small traffic lighthouse located at the entrance/exit of the wharf where many anglers gather to cash in their variety of catches... will see how the beam fathoms itself on the waters too...lovecpf 

While the anglers have their tripods for their fishing rods, my tripod is to catch the throws from my beams.... 

Don't leave the tunnel... there's light coming soon at the end of it!!!:thumbsup: 

What abt you Maxim... how R U flaming yr side of the beam and which have you...btw, where R U located if thats alright to ask?


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## Mr Floppy (Aug 11, 2009)

SemperFi, what type of batteries are you using?

Anyone consider eneloops with D sized adapters? Or would the current drain be too much for this?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Aug 11, 2009)

A half the price 24w HID will vastly outperform this light, I see no reason to spend that money.


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## lozninja (Oct 7, 2009)

Well Done Mate Nice Pictures .

This is just the beam & Power ive been looking for .

I think that anyone comparing this too a Hid Thrower or Lamp or Spotlight is off there Rocker !!!!!

The idea of this beast is runtime , Lots of runtime on full power .
Hid lamps have lots of power with NO Runtime .
Who the heck needs or uses a torch with only an hour or so Burntime .
I Cant even Walk My Dogs in That time . I certainly would not a lamp that only burns for that sought of time id have to take 2 torches flashlights with me every where i went ?????
No comparison at all .


In My Honest Opinion


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## fiftycalibre (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm not too sure about the actual runtime. LED Lenser overstates by a large margin most of the time.


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## lozninja (Oct 7, 2009)

Totally Agree With You, In Fact There Is Not Really Any Companies That Actually States The Exact Running Time . Or Lumens .

But in all honesty i would love a small torch that threw like a baseball Player , Had Different Power Setting , For Longer Running Time , And Fitted In Your Jacket Pocket . But I dont thinks it going to happen yet.

I own Hids & Led,s & they both serve a Purpose But In an ideal world in this time of year you should really only need to go out with one torch Etc.
If Hid's ran For 8 hours, Hey That Would Be fantastic But thats whey I Like led s.
And When They Thow Like X21 Thats exactly The Power & Runtime I Need From A Lamp , Ok 4D Cells is a Pain In The *** To Carry But after all You Need To Hold on To Something !!!



Many Thanks


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## Tora (Oct 7, 2009)

This is from my earlier post on the X21. Check out this video - 

Earlier post: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/243500

This is what I consider to be THE most versatile flashlight in existence. The following shows a variety of flashlights put to the music of Evanescence's - Bring Me To Life. Bear with it as it is slow loading unless you have cable or DSL. Let it fully buffer and really enjoy it. When the X21 appears - it is in the flood and then it is slowly focused to a tight and insanely bright spot.  

Wait a little more and it again shows the X21 - this time from spot to flood and to spot again.

It is a rather large light (4 D Cells ) but comparable to the large mag lights but variable flood to spot and very bright as well as very focused.

It is coordinated with the music well and it shows each flashlight used before the night shots. This is my favorite song - so I bookmarked it. The usefulness of this light is readily apparent. Perfect for the woods or any outdoor use. Extremely useful flood and spot and anywhere between. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZG9K...eature=related


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## MattK (Oct 7, 2009)

Are you sure versatile is the word you're looking for?


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## bighest (Jan 25, 2010)

@SemperFi

Hi New here, i see you have a TK40 and a led lenser x21.

I have a tk40, was thinking of getting the x21!!
is it much brighter in your opinion than the TK40??? i have rechargeable GP 9000 mah batteries for it if and i like the size but i want to know if it ALOT brighter???

thanks


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## MattK (Jan 25, 2010)

It's a LOT brighter - 4 times brighter.


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## toby_pra (Jan 26, 2010)

MattK said:


> It's a LOT brighter - 4 times brighter.


 
and 4 times heavier... :shakehead :shakehead

@bighest

The X21 is not 4 times brighter than the TK40. The TK40 is still very 
bright. If you want a light that has a beam like the X21 you need
a Jetbeam M1X, not as bright as the X21, but nearly as bright. The M1X
has a much better build quality and has a normal size.


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## SemperFi (Jan 26, 2010)

bighest said:


> @SemperFi
> 
> Hi New here, i see you have a TK40 and a led lenser x21.
> 
> ...



2B honest, there is a weight factor and naturally too, the purpose with either when one is in an almost pitch dark location (hence being all geared up as well), the X21 wouldn't be that cumbersome to sling over and you are in an obvious terrain that needs lots of light and foresight before deciding to approach any obstacle you first wish to analyze adequately from a safe distance. 
With the TK40, its also VERY handy to have and use with close range viewing but outbeat most in its class both in throw and range for that matter as well. 

These two go very well hand in hand when U R out in nocturnal environment and weight is not a factor anymore but a blast to see the daylight from the dark side.... that's what matters most with the X21.... it is always get greeted with a WOW!!!.... from the guys around. A big blast from this BIG Brother sure gets appreciated by all trekking with you.... but be prepared to be the lead man in any adventure on the trails.... 

I believe a *13000 mAh (D size) Lithium* would certainly be your better wish to have it in the X21 to last longer as well.


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## Egsise (Jan 26, 2010)

MattK said:


> It's a LOT brighter - 4 times brighter.


More like 2 times brighter measured in lumens, in lux it might be 4 times brighter.


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## bighest (Jan 26, 2010)

SemperFi said:


> 2B honest, there is a weight factor and naturally too, the purpose with either when one is in an almost pitch dark location (hence being all geared up as well), the X21 wouldn't be that cumbersome to sling over and you are in an obvious terrain that needs lots of light and foresight before deciding to approach any obstacle you first wish to analyze adequately from a safe distance.
> With the TK40, its also VERY handy to have and use with close range viewing but outbeat most in its class both in throw and range for that matter as well.
> 
> These two go very well hand in hand when U R out in nocturnal environment and weight is not a factor anymore but a blast to see the daylight from the dark side.... that's what matters most with the X21.... it is always get greeted with a WOW!!!.... from the guys around. A big blast from this BIG Brother sure gets appreciated by all trekking with you.... but be prepared to be the lead man in any adventure on the trails....
> ...



thanks so much for the info!! just one last thing, how long can you leave it on turbo mode before it starts flashing to cool down..as the TK 40 last bout 15 min.


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## toby_pra (Jan 26, 2010)

SemperFi said:


> that's what matters most with the X21.... it is always get greeted with a WOW!!!.... from the guys around.


 
In my experience the WOW is much bigger, with a light that is smaller...


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## Egsise (Jan 26, 2010)

bighest said:


> thanks so much for the info!! just one last thing, how long can you leave it on turbo mode before it starts flashing to cool down..as the TK 40 last bout 15 min.


There is no such thing in X21.
X21 is designed to be used with alkaline cells and the output drops to 50% in ~1 hour.
It's unregulated so the output drops fast enough to keep the light cool.


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## bighest (Jan 26, 2010)

interesting.
Thankslovecpf


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## MattK (Jan 26, 2010)

SemperFi said:


> I believe a *13000 mAh (D size) Lithium* would certainly be your better wish to have it in the X21 to last longer as well.



DO NOT USE THIS BATTERY IN FLASHLIGHTS.

THIS BATTERY IS FOR LOW DRAIN ONLY AND MAY BE DANGEROUS IF USED IN A HIGH DRAIN DEVICE LIKE A FLASHLIGHT.

STICK WITH ALKALINE CELLS FOR THE X21.


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## SemperFi (Jan 27, 2010)

bighest said:


> thanks so much for the info!! just one last thing, how long can you leave it on turbo mode before it starts flashing to cool down..as the TK 40 last bout 15 min.



I have not experience this long endurance with leaving it on longer than 10 minutes at a stretch... for the obvious reasons due to others being around where I have been so far. But believe you me, it does get rather warm after several minutes.



MattK said:


> STICK WITH ALKALINE CELLS FOR THE X21.



I couldn't agree more with Matt on this. I have not stock up any rechargeable for *D sizes *and because the alkaline, as recommended for the X21 is best considered, merely due to the weight and availability as oppose to charging and the carrying of these extra hardware like when one is traveling etc. 

4 extra D size batteries as spare is a considerable weight in any luggage or back pack, I would stack 8x reserve alkaline batteries instead and you'll never run low or out of throws at any one outing. I think there is a PM from you I see up there....heheh... will brb , to check it out. I'm just out of my nest...and heading for a fabulous brunch... cheers!:twothumbs


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## Locoboy5150 (Jan 27, 2010)

So the X21 *has* to use alkaline cells and rechargeable NiMh D cells are out of the question. That's disappointing as I can imagine that beast devours batteries like a starving pack of wolves.


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## MattK (Jan 27, 2010)

It's what the Mfr recommends. It works fine on NiMh but can get hot under extended runs since the output drops so much less over time than with alkaline.


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## droeun (Jan 27, 2010)

Wow, that's a lot of money for a direct drive light. I loved LED Lenser when I first started using flashlights, got a T7 & 7736TS. I can't believe they charge that much & still don't offer any sort regulation. The focus system is cool but I think I'll stay away until they throw in some electronics. I give it 3 months tops until you throw it aside and start picking up other stuff around here 

The thing looks pretty darn bright though, have fun.


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## Locoboy5150 (Jan 27, 2010)

MattK said:


> It's what the Mfr recommends. It works fine on NiMh but can get hot under extended runs since the output drops so much less over time than with alkaline.



Thanks for the information MattK. I like how you're a hands on guy when it comes to the things that you sell. (In the past you answered my questions about a Terralux drop in based on your experiences with it.) If the X21 can use NiMh D cells...hmmmm...maybe this is a light that I will be looking at more closely.

...when I win the lottery.


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## MattK (Jan 27, 2010)

droeun said:


> Wow, that's a lot of money for a direct drive light. I loved LED Lenser when I first started using flashlights, got a T7 & 7736TS. I can't believe they charge that much & still don't offer any sort regulation. The focus system is cool but I think I'll stay away until they throw in some electronics. I give it 3 months tops until you throw it aside and start picking up other stuff around here
> 
> The thing looks pretty darn bright though, have fun.



It's not like LED Lenser is dumb and doesn't know how to build a circuit. 

It's not about price or cost at all. Rainer Opolka, the owner and chief engineer from Zweibruder, the company that makes these lights, has a different philosphy. He believes, CORRECTLY, that direct drive lights are more efficient than regulated lights so he prefers to build direct drive products. 

There's a very legitimate reason to do this, especially when all of your lights use alkalines as theirs do; efficiency losses (heat/resistance) increase as current load increases on the battery and regulation circuits simply replace (dropping) voltage with current to deliver the needed wattage to maintain lumen stability which further exacerbates those efficiency losses.



Locoboy5150 said:


> Thanks for the information MattK. I like how you're a hands on guy when it comes to the things that you sell. (In the past you answered my questions about a Terralux drop in based on your experiences with it.) If the X21 can use NiMh D cells...hmmmm...maybe this is a light that I will be looking at more closely.
> 
> ...when I win the lottery.



You're welcome.

Like I said, the only caveat is I would be cautious using NiMh's for extended runtimes because they do not drop voltage like NiMh cells do they have much better lumen maintenance which means more heat is created than the platform was engineered for over a complete run through a set of batteries. Doing this occasionally probably is meaningless - doing it all the time could result in shorter LED life 
*OH NO - only 10K hours!! *


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## Locoboy5150 (Jan 27, 2010)

I just wish that LED Lenser would design their lights around "less leaky" types of batteries than alkalines. Can you imagine having a battery leak inside a light as expensive as an X21? Ugh, I'd be crying forever and a day if that happened to me!

The more leak resistant NiMh D cells would be what I would use because I sure wouldn't plan on using the X21 as a constant light source. The thing is so huge and powerful, I would only use it for short bursts on the high setting just to blow people's minds.


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## MattK (Jan 27, 2010)

Billions of alkaline batteries get used, without leaking, every day. It's not like there were other, better choices for them. The only thing you can drive a light this powerful with is Li-Ion, Li-Poly, Lithium Primary (like 20 of them) or alkaline or NiMh D cells. The only fairly consumer palatable item there is the alkaline D cells. 2 sets of NiMh cells and a decent charger is about $80 assuming you're buying online and you cannot even GET good (real) NiMh D cells anywhere except on the internet.

Energizer, Duracell and I think Rayovac all offer warrantees/guarantees against THEIR product leaking and damaging your product designed to work with alkalines.


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## Egsise (Jan 28, 2010)

MattK said:


> Energzier, Duracell and I think Rayovac all offer warrantees/guarantees against THEIR product leaking and damaging your product designed to work with alkalines.


In US that is.


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## Jash (Jan 28, 2010)

"*OH NO - only 10K hours!! *" ROFL!

I run all my D cell lights with Soshine 2 x AA to D converters using eneloops. Shorter runtimes yes, but who needs 500 lumens for 5 hours anyway. Call the police if your kids get lost.
On four 2 x AA D's I can use my big light for 1/2 hour a night and recharge once a week. Also reduces weight a considerable amount.


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## droeun (Jan 28, 2010)

MattK said:


> It's not like LED Lenser is dumb and doesn't know how to build a circuit.
> 
> It's not about price or cost at all. Rainer Opolka, the owner and chief engineer from Zweibruder, the company that makes these lights, has a different philosphy. He believes, CORRECTLY, that direct drive lights are more efficient than regulated lights so he prefers to build direct drive products.



He needs to get as close to that 30hr advertised run time so he needs all the efficiency he can get! What they don't mention is that 70% of that the light is in moon mode. I always need my lights on full blast so I found myself changing batteries when output dropped below 50%, and the half-depleted cells with PERFECTLY GOOD BUT USELESS juice just went in the trash - where's the efficiency in that . The efficiency lost with a driver still doesn't exceed what you end up tossing in the garbage. I only use my lights for temporary spot & never leave them on for extended periods, so I actually found myself changing batteries LESS often when using a regulated light.




MattK said:


> There's a very legitimate reason to do this, especially when all of your lights use alkalines as theirs do; efficiency losses (heat/resistance) increase as current load increases on the battery and regulation circuits simply replace (dropping) voltage with current to deliver the needed wattage to maintain lumen stability which further exacerbates those efficiency losses.



Other manufacturers have regulated lights with TWICE the output & have absolutely no problems, so it sounds like they need better heat sinking & **** poor design if you ask me. I have no doubt that the guy is bright, but I think he should cater to a wider customer base rather than just designing a light around his own personal preference. You need to be competitive in this market & so far they've done nothing but linger behind.

Being stuck wasting money on disposable batteries isn't very efficient for your wallet, either :whoopin:


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## SureAddicted (Jan 29, 2010)

droeun said:


> Other manufacturers have regulated lights with TWICE the output & have absolutely no problems, so it sounds like they need better heat sinking & **** poor design if you ask me. I have no doubt that the guy is bright, but I think he should cater to a wider customer base rather than just designing a light around his own personal preference. You need to be competitive in this market & so far they've done nothing but linger behind.
> 
> Being stuck wasting money on disposable batteries isn't very efficient for your wallet, either :whoopin:



I think his customer base is wide enough. Some people want unregulated lights, what's so hard to understand about this? As for other manufacturers having twice the output, which other company has a 2000 lumen light? Which company has these 400 lumen lights your referring to?(your words not mine). If you look on the tube, it's flooded with LL lights, so yeah you wont see a lot of postings her on CPF, that shouldn't surprise you really.


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## MattK (Jan 29, 2010)

While you might, 'always need your lights on full blast,' most people don't need 1000+ lumens constantly and the way our eyes work we cannot detect the slight and continual decrease in output.

The light is made for a wide market and, as CPF proves, over and over, no one product can please everyone. If you always need 1000+ lumens with no dimming you might consider an HID.

Your choice of tossing 1/2 used batteries in the garbage is nothing that I can address or respond to...

Regulated lights with twice the output? The onliy light I can think of that matches that description is the soon to be released Olight SR90 which uses a totally different emitter and a custom rechargeable battery pack - and will cost a pretty penny more than an X21.

It's rather ironic that you suggest that they 'should cater to a wider customer base not his own personal preferences,' when they're actually selling 10's of thousands of lights every year and you're posting on CPF that they should build lights to YOUR personal preference.

As I have already explained; a rechargeable system adds considerable cost - cost not everyone can or wants to bear. They announced the development of a rechargeable X21 a while back, not yet released, for those are willing to pay the extra cost.

It's also interesting that you think they need to do what everyone else does, 'to be competetive.' While I'd certainly like to see some more diversification and other changes within their line, including some regulated/lightium powered lights, I applaud, to an extent, their willingness to forge their own path. 

Lastly, I feel safe betting you have_ no idea how competetive they are _and how many lights they sell. Frankly, I don't have their sales numbers either but I can tell you that they're highly competetive in some markets and their sales undoubtedly surpass almost every premium brand regularly touted on CPF.


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## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Jan 29, 2010)

I'd happily bet you London to a brick that in my country Led Lenser is selling more units than any of the big time brands touted on here other than Maglite. LL is available in far more shops than any other premium brand in Australia other than Maglite. They don't need to change anything to get competitive down-under.


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## Egsise (Jan 29, 2010)

That is so true, the money that they have putted in advertising is paying back.

Here in Finland when people see my Fenix LD10 etc the first question is....
"Is it a Lenser?"
"No this is better, this is waterproof, regulated and has different modes, a Fenix"
"Yeah right what ever, it's bright"


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## SemperFi (Jan 29, 2010)

Locoboy5150 said:


> * The thing is so huge and powerful, I would only use it for short bursts on the high setting just to blow people's minds.*



Yes indeed it is in size. I consider it as my personal mini "_*bazooka*_"...heheh. 
Try considering the Fenix TK40 then or if you wish to wait a weebit longer on your next birthday gift, request it to be a TK45. It is now on my wish list the moment my vendor has it on their stocklisting, its my next default purchase.

However, as some have expressed their fears on leakage, the common thought and practice goes undoubtedly to mind with, removing them from the tube when not using it for long periods,simply habit to heed and stay with reliable known brands. Don't treat your LL with inferior priced and names when you consider illuminating your investment with a LL-X 21. 

FYI, I almost caused a stir & clearance of the check-in bay counter where one walks through scanner at Sydney airport prior to catching my flight for Christchurch, NZ last year on my 3rd honeymoon trip. 

"*...Ooh that? Thats a mini bazooka!*" Security personnel were all on immediate alert and suddenly, people froze and surrounding passengers quickly hushed aside and another uniform officer showed up from nowhere saying: "*Sir, will you step aside and follow me please?*":devil: 

I laughed off knowing what was the matter and replied immediately: *aaaah, you must be from the old garde, ANZUK times? hahaa... *

He didn't look one bit pleased with that quip but it soon settled when I also said, "*its a big flashlight really that I term it as a bazooka. Go check it out*.":nana: 
Passenger movement soon resumed when the throng of Inspectors and uniformed Security all lookeding amazed around my hand carry backpack (with two other notebooks and mobile IP100 printer inside too) and wanting to have a go, a thorough look-see at the darn head of the X21!!! 
That was fun to watch, I wished I could snap a shot at that melee but my HTC HD phone and both my DSLR Olympus and hip camera Lumix were still in the trays next to my backpack and me having to stand aside with a good chuckle watching.... 
Eventually, the excellent service and professionalism shown by Aussie uniform Staff at the airport arranged my LL X21 be dismantled and securely packed and inventoried into another package bound for NZ with my flight and I can claim it again upon clearing baggage. 
That was subsequently carried out without a hitch and smiles were all back again. 
At Christchurch, this time it was the ladies taking charge over there and they were eager and curious about the package that needed to arrive separate and wondered why and wish to have a peek-a-boo themselcves...so, I demonstrated after sliding the 4 D cells into the tube and VOILA!!! 

*WOW...thats quite a torch there you've got! I'll let my husband know about it too this evening, he needs replacing his current mini maglight.... *

I then confessed bringing it along was for the testing it at the Waitomo Caves... which she added: *Oh, that will surely be a blast with what you have, what is it called again please? 
My mini bazooka is the LedLenser X21.*


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## rmteo (Jan 29, 2010)

JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> I'd happily bet you London to a brick that in my country Led Lenser is selling more units than any of the big time brands touted on here other than Maglite. LL is available in far more shops than any other premium brand in Australia other than Maglite. They don't need to change anything to get competitive down-under.



That is probably true anywhere outside of the USA.

On at least 2 criteria (number of employees, number of manufacturing bases), LL is 3x the size SureFire.


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## decra (Jan 29, 2010)

SureAddicted said:


> I think his customer base is wide enough. Some people want unregulated lights, what's so hard to understand about this? As for other manufacturers having twice the output, which other company has a 2000 lumen light? Which company has these 400 lumen lights your referring to?(your words not mine). If you look on the tube, it's flooded with LL lights, so yeah you wont see a lot of postings her on CPF, that shouldn't surprise you really.



Re the 2000 lumen light, check out mattk's sig line. 6 18650's though. Yikes!


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## SureAddicted (Jan 30, 2010)

I wonder if it's supplied with a holster.:thinking:


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## LeifUK (Jan 30, 2010)

MattK said:


> It's rather ironic that you suggest that they 'should cater to a wider customer base not his own personal preferences,' when they're actually selling 10's of thousands of lights every year and you're posting on CPF that they should build lights to YOUR personal preference.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...



In the UK LED Lenser lights are priced on a similar level to lights from makers such as Fenix. When I was looking for a light for cross country running, I initially thought LED Lenser were far superior to anything else on the market given the incredible specifications. Then I did some research online and came to some rather obvious conclusions about the P7 and similar lights: 



They make outrageous runtime claims. They can do this because the lights gradually dim, and still provide some light long after other lights have died, even though the output level is so low as to be of questionable value.
They make claims about high output, but the output drops quite rapidly in the first few minutes, and then much more slowly throughout the main runtime. So the true average output until the light goes to 50% is much lower than the claimed value. And of course that claimed value is probably not an OTF value (though to be fair to LL few other makers quote OTF values).
They use inconvenient power sources such as AAA cells, or alkalines, due to the direct drive nature of the lights.
I do not doubt that LED Lenser sell far more lights than Fenix and others. I see their lights in many UK high street shops where Fenix et al are absent. 

So why is that? Is it because they are so good, and customers would not buy alternatives? The truth is perhaps not so obvious. 

My suspicion is that because the lights are not regulated, the build cost is far lower than would otherwise be the case. This allows them to build in larger margins, allowing retailers to make a decent profit. And of course the outrageous performance claims probably help them sell. It is the lack of regulation that allows them to make outrageous performance claims. After all, when consumers buy something, they often compare specs, and they don't lie do they? :duh2: It is a good business model, and as is so often the case in business, it is not always the 'best' product that 'wins'.


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## MattK (Jan 30, 2010)

Led Lenser was part of the ANSI working group so expect all of their lights to comply with the ANSI standards....for better or for worse.

Their runtimes are to like 10% of original output. I agree it is absurd but this IS the ANSI standard now. Sadly we must get used to that until it is changed, something that I am working towrds.

Their output claims are fine, and will all be OTF with the new ANSI standard. Most lights have rapid output drops in the first moment. The new ANSI standard for output measurement is to test from :00:30-02:00 minutes.

I cannot see how AA and AAA alkalines, the most widely available battery types in the world are, "inconvenient power sources." This is.....illogical. 

A regulation proper circuit is not very expensive - anywhere from ~$1.25-5 unless it's for a large or very high current light or particularly sophisticated. 
This does not include R&D of course but, as I have, very clearly I think, explained their lights aren't regulated as a matter of choice. 

My explanations in this thread and on this issue are not based upon supposition or my own opinion but on actual conversations with the owner, founder and chief engineer of the factory.


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## rmteo (Jan 30, 2010)

LeifUK said:


> ....It is a good business model, and as is so often the case in business, it is not always the 'best' product that 'wins'.



Welcome to the real world.


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## LeifUK (Jan 30, 2010)

rmteo said:


> Welcome to the real world.



If that stupid and pathetic comment is the best you can do, maybe it's best not to try.


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## LeifUK (Jan 30, 2010)

MattK said:


> Led Lenser was part of the ANSI working group so expect all of their lights to comply with the ANSI standards....for better or for worse.
> 
> Their runtimes are to like 10% of original output. I agree it is absurd but this IS the ANSI standard now. Sadly we must get used to that until it is changed, something that I am working towrds.



If you look around you will see that other manufacturers present far more sensible figures. And when I ask myself why, I conclude that companies such as 4Sevens try to present the potential customer with realistic figures. If the 10% level is a standard, it is a dumb one, and not very helpful, at least not to me. 



MattK said:


> Their output claims are fine, and will all be OTF with the new ANSI standard. Most lights have rapid output drops in the first moment. The new ANSI standard for output measurement is to test from :00:30-02:00 minutes.



Here is a runtime plot for the LED Lenser P7: 

http://translate.google.com/transla...t.php?p=504265&postcount=13&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en

Notice the initial very steep drop in output, followed by a gradual drop. And then compare that to the Fenix L2D Q5. The latter shows a drop, but markedly less so. My guess is that LL outputs are based in the first few seconds. Notice also the very rapid drop in output of the LL P7 on alkalines. It's not pretty, in my opinion anyway. 



MattK said:


> I cannot see how AA and AAA alkalines, the most widely available battery types in the world are, "inconvenient power sources." This is.....illogical.



AAA are inconvenient due to low power capacity, and because you really need a battery cage if you want any real lifetime. Alkalines are inconvenient because they are not rechargeable and because they do not last as long as NiMH. 

I use lights for running, and this evening I went out with a Quark AA2 and a Fenix L2D Q5, both on turbo, both loaded with NiMH cells, and the Quark shutdown before the end of the run. So each week I would be going through about 8 alkalines, which is a lot of money and a lot of toxic landfill. And alkalines would not cut the mustard in terms of runtime. My rechargeable NiMH cells are supposed to be good for ~1000 charges, but even at 100 charges that is far better from both financial and ecological viewpoints. 



MattK said:


> A regulation proper circuit is not very expensive - anywhere from ~$1.25-5 unless it's for a large or very high current light or particularly sophisticated.
> This does not include R&D of course but, as I have, very clearly I think, explained their lights aren't regulated as a matter of choice.
> 
> My explanations in this thread and on this issue are not based upon supposition or my own opinion but on actual conversations with the owner, founder and chief engineer of the factory.



He is not exactly unbiased, and no doubt has his own opinons. But I doubt he would share with you any opinion that in any way shone a bad light on his company. (No pun intended.)

My personal opinion is one of distrust of LL because their claims are so ludicrous. By all accounts the lights are decent enough, but I think they need to tone down the marketing hype which is extreme.


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## rmteo (Jan 30, 2010)

LeifUK said:


> ...My personal opinion is one of distrust of LL because their claims are so ludicrous. By all accounts the lights are decent enough, but I think they need to tone down the marketing hype which is extreme.



Opinions are like armpits - everyone has a couple , and they usually stink anyway.


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## LeifUK (Jan 30, 2010)

rmteo said:


> Opinions are like armpits - everyone has a couple , and they usually stink anyway.



Your first posting, and the one above, are both obnoxious.  Do you have something constructive to say?


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## rmteo (Jan 30, 2010)

Look at post #76.

So you don't like the way LL does business - don't buy their products. But if you expect what is probably the 2nd. largest manufacturer of higher-end flashlights to change their methods just because you don't agree with them, then you are living in your own dream world.


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## MattK (Jan 30, 2010)

I don't think 'inconvenient' means what you think it means LeifUK.

Perhaps you could make a point of alkaline not ultimately being as ECONOMICAL as NiMh cells but they're certainly MORE convenient.


I do agree that their measurement standards lead to absurd runtime numbers. Sadly there is a now a super [email protected] ANSI standard to back up the 'legitimacy' of some of those absurd runtimes.

Lastly, you just called rmteo's posts, 'stupid, pathetic and obnoxious.' That's not very constructive either.


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## LeifUK (Jan 30, 2010)

rmteo said:


> Look at post #76.
> 
> So you don't like the way LL does business - don't buy their products. But if you expect what is probably the 2nd. largest manufacturer of higher-end flashlights to change their methods just because you don't agree with them, then you are living in your own dream world.



I was under the impression that people here were free to express opinions in a polite manner which is what I was doing. Just because you dislike the opinions that I express does not justify personal attacks, such as saying that I live in a dream world. I think you need to chill out. 

I'm not sure the fact that they are successful tells us anything about the quality of their products compared to those of competitors. But when for example someone suggests that alkalines are fine, then I think it worth putting forward the reasons why for me, and many like me, they are not. Most people buy cheap torches, and they work well for them. Nothing wrong with that. But some people have good reasons for needing better torches, often for specialist use such as caving, running, cycling, and killing small furry mammals. I suspect most CPF users fit into the latter categories.


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## LeifUK (Jan 30, 2010)

MattK said:


> Lastly, you just called rmteo's posts, 'stupid, pathetic and obnoxious.' That's not very constructive either.



That's true, but I found "Welcome to the real world" extremely condescending and I was tempted to reply in a more direct manner, but didn't. 

Regarding batteries, yes okay, in the sense you mean, alkalines are more convenient. I accept your central point, that they provide what a lot of people want. Most people do not know about regulation. I wonder how they would respond were they to see the real figures? Maybe they would not care, but specialist users like me do care.

Anyway, I think I have made my points, and perhaps back to the original thread ...


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## Swedpat (Jan 30, 2010)

About the use of NiMh batteries: if I got it right the INITIAL brightness may be slightly higher with alkalines. But because of the faster drop NiMh will be brighter after a while and provide a more even and higher average brightness during the runtime? I especially thinking about use with higher capacity NiMh as the 12Ah Titanium I have. 

And please: behave in a more kindly manner to each other, it will be so more pleasant for all of us...

Regards, Patric


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## peterkin101 (Feb 6, 2010)

Egsise said:


> In US that is.


 
Definitly in the UK as well. I had a MagLite 6D cell which was ruined by a leaky Duracell "D" cell. A phone call to their help desk resulted in a cheque for £40 being sent to me, which was promptly spent on another Maglite 6D Ultra M3 Batteries-and no problems so far


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## Archie Cruz (Feb 7, 2010)

I've decided to retrofit mine to run off a Tekkeon 3450i or 6V-DC via a wall plug. That is, unless I can sell it first.
There is no reason this light could not have been designed to take 2XR123's.
The Medieval jousting club look really gets old fast.


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## hyperloop (Feb 8, 2010)

nice review and nice pics too, i have the baby brother to the X21, the P14 and its a great light, smaller but still packing a punch. Will do a small review when i get the opportunity to. I was especially impressed with the output when there was so much ambient light around. It must be even more impressive when its pitch black.


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## MattK (Feb 8, 2010)

Archie Cruz said:


> There is no reason this light could not have been designed to take 2XR123's.




Uhhh are you talking about an X21?


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## cmacclel (Mar 26, 2010)

I have an X21 in hand......it is direct drive 100% If you where to run this from NiMH cells you could use 3 cells forget about 4 Nimh cells! at 6v the sucker would Blow up!

Here are some reading 

3.0v 1.1 amp High 38ma Low
3.5v 3.2 amp High 87ma Low
3.8v 5.0 amp High 123ma Low
4.0v 6.2 amp High 155ma Low
4.7v 10 amps High 210ma Low



Mac


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## Tuikku (Apr 17, 2010)

Any graphs available about OTF lumen output vs. time?


Edit:
I answer to myself:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/242369

edit2:
some measurements


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## Egsise (Apr 17, 2010)

Tuikku said:


> Any graphs available about OTF lumen output vs. time?
> 
> 
> Edit:
> ...


Lähde=Source, vee73 is his nick. :huh:
http://www.kuvaboxi.fi/julkinen/2bcy8+vesa-led-lenser-uk-leatherman-testissa.html


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## Tuikku (Apr 17, 2010)

Great :huh:


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## janw (Sep 17, 2010)

*Re: LED Lenser X21 rechargeable solution*

Hi , I am new to this form, so hope I post this in the right area.
I have a Led Lenser X21 and I think I found the solution regarding rechargeable batteries. I use 3 8000mah batteries and made a dummy battery out of wood with a bolt through it to fill the gap. This way, the light does not overheat as it does with 4 rechargeables (the tail gold plated spring was glowing hot when using 4!)
The light level with 3 rechargeables is actually slightly better than 4 alkalines (Measured with a slr light meter). Although the low output setting is slightly lower (not sure why).

I found a reference on a German forum where they did the same. They measured the current and found that it was about the same.

I have to do some run time test, but so far it keeps the light level constant for a while.


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