# Active thermal management Armytek Wizard Pro v2 and non Pro v2



## FlashlightR (Mar 2, 2015)

I am new to the CPF so I hope I place this thread on the correct location on the forum...

I am interested in how in real life the active thermal management of LED and electronics functions in the new Armytek Wizard Pro v2 and non Pro v2. 

I found a thread on the german messerforum.net in the thema Armytek Wizard v2, link: (http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?128111-Armytek-Wizard-v2)

That guy was not very pleased with the regulation and returned both of the flashlights.

I cannot find any other in dept reviews of the new wizards.

All the info is welcome, thanks !


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## Crane (Mar 3, 2015)

I hope its not as bad because I received my Wizard Pro V2 few days ago and still waiting for the batteries and charger to arrive, haven't tested it yet, but from what I read - if the flashlight gets too hot - it will switch to lower power so as to protect itself from overheating, if it's really going to be annoying I might return it as well, or maybe there will be a way of frying off the thermometer. How hard is it to make a proper heat sink. :shakehead


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## Norm (Mar 3, 2015)

A lot of newer lights give you a turbo mode for a quick blast of light, and then drop back to high, they are not designed to run turbo 100% of the time.

Norm


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## FlashlightR (Mar 3, 2015)

Thanks guys. The main reason I want to know more about it is that I had a wizard pro v1.5 that I also sent back. The light became extremely hot, almost 70 degrees celcius, then suddenly without any warning it dropped down to a low level and it made an annoying cheap pwm buzzing sound. The light did not automatically step up in brightness when it cooled down. In that case Zebralight seems to offer a better solution with the PID controller.


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## Norm (Mar 3, 2015)

I don't know of any flashlight that automatically steps up. 

Norm


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## FlashlightR (Mar 3, 2015)

I have read somewhere that the wizards should step up automatically. I have also read somewhere that the Zebralights with PID controller also use the brightness step down, step up mechanism.

Maybee someone could confirm this?


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## Charles L. (Mar 3, 2015)

Hi FlashlightR,

You are correct about Zebralight's PID thermal regulation system. Check out cpf member (and reviewer extraordinaire) Selfbuilt's November review of the SC62 for good graphic evidence of the light's output going up and down in response to changing temperature conditions. Other lights may have a regulation system as sophisticated as Zebralight's, but I am not aware of any. I'm honestly not sure whether the Wizard has a thermal regulation mechanism comparable to the Zebralight's (I have one, so should know!), but my understanding is they did not.

Zebralights can still get pretty warm, btw


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## FlashlightR (Mar 3, 2015)

Hi Charles L., 

Thanks for the information! Indeed, Selfbuilts review of the SC 62 shows the nice behaviour of the PID controller. I knew I read it somewhere.
I have asked Armytek if they are planning to sent some wizards to reviewers for in dept reviewing. They are preparing new packaging boxes for the lights and when that's done they will send flashlights out to reviewers, also to Selfbuilt. So, that's good news, because Selfbuilt will for sure check the thermal management behaviour of the light! When it is 'Selfbuilt proof' I think I will go for a v2 of the Wizard.


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## SubLGT (Mar 3, 2015)

Crane said:


> …………..How hard is it to make a proper heat sink. :shakehead



It's not hard. Just double or triple the mass of the flashlight. And then people would be complaining it is too heavy.


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## SoundWorx (Mar 16, 2015)

I have an Armytek Wizard Pro V2 warm and have used it on the highest output ( around 1000 lumens otf ) for almost 20 min straight. It did get quite warm but from a naked eye it didn't step down. I've been pretty happy with it so far. Still works just fine so I don't think it being on turbo that long hurt anything.


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## FlashlightR (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks for the information Soundworx. I have asked Armytek about the temperature management in the manufacturers corner in the wizard thread. I haven't received an answer yet......


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## SubLGT (Mar 16, 2015)

From the owner's manual:

 "With ambient temperature +25°C the flashlight delivers light in Maximum mode for about 8-10 minutes and then the brightness stepsdown to the Main3 mode. 40-60 seconds afterwards the brightness increases to the Maximum mode again. This stepping goes cyclically to maintain the user's safety and the flashlight's functionality. In the conditions of good air-cooling the flashlight delivers constant light even in Maximum mode. It does not use timers, but real active temperature measurements. "

 "High temperature. When it increases to the warning level, the color LED flashes 3 times once a second. At critical level the main LED flashes 4 times once a minute and the light output decreases to Main3 mode. In case the temperature doesn’t fall the light output decreases to Firefly2. At normal temperature the brightness increases to usual level "


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## FlashlightR (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks SubLGT! I can't remember that this information was mentioned in the online manuals some time ago, maybee they are updated? This information doesn't seem to match with the test results of the guy on the messerforum at the beginning of my thread and with SoundWorxs test. I don't know what the ambient temperatures were when performing the tests, but in both tests there is no real visual stepdown to main 3....


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## RAM2 (Mar 16, 2015)

FlashlightR said:


> Thanks SubLGT! I can't remember that this information was mentioned in the online manuals some time ago, maybee they are updated? 3....



The Wizard V.2 manuals are available for download on the ARMYTEK site. Hit on the model you are interested in and it will take you to a page with Description, Specifications and Manual. My Wizard V.2
will get warm in the turbo mode, but it hasn't been on for more than ten continuous minutes in that mode. Mode 3 never gets warm and has never stepped down. It works great for my needs.


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## FlashlightR (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks for the info RAM2!


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## SoundWorx (Apr 2, 2015)

The temperature was between 55-60° F. I was on the 2nd floor of my house with the window open shining it down into my front yard for the kids to play and an excuse to use my new light. Lit the entire front yard, not a huge front yard but I can take a pic from my window later. A daylight shot and a night shot with the wizard. 

My test was not done professionally or with any meters but in the almost 20 min I didn't notice a drop in lumens although I'm sure it did some. Seems heatsink was done well since the temperature increases to the touch within 30 seconds. I'm still liking my wizard and am hoping the grizzly is released soon as armytek seems to be built very well.


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## FlashlightR (Apr 4, 2015)

Don't you think the high temperature of the flashlight will decrease the lifespan of the LED and battery? 
Is the drop on lumens a result of the thermal management or has it something to do with e.g. higher internal resistance due to the heat?


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## FlashlightR (May 17, 2015)

I have received my Armytek Wizard Pro warm v2 some days ago. I really love the light. On turbo the light is extremely bright but also gets extremely hot before stepping down due to the thermal control so I definitely would say this will decrease the lifespan of at least the LED. We will see but for now I think it's a great light !


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## mdocod (May 19, 2015)

In the name of "flashlight science", I went ahead and ran my V2 Pro continuously, through a current meter, on MAX, to observe the behavior as the temp rises...

At approximately 20C ambient:


~14 minutes in: indicator beacon begins "triple flashing" orange. That continues until.... 
~19 minutes in: indicator beacon begins "triple flashing" red. That continues until...
~20 minutes in: main light flashes several times, then continues in turbo mode with the beacon triple flashing red until..
~21 minutes in: main light drops down to a mode that measures somewhere in-between MM2 and MM3. (draws a bit less power than MM3, and more than MM2). Temperature warning continues triple flashing red. 
~22 minutes in: temperature indicator switches back to orange, light kicks back on max mode...

There does appear to be a true temperature monitoring system in place here. The light does get very hot, but I suspect that our sensitivity to the temperature is more alarming that how hot it actually is. Probably ~50-60C. You'll have to fight through a bit of pain to grip the light to use the switch at these temps with bare hands  Upon review, I don't believe the maximum allowed operating temp to be of significant concern for LED or battery life. 

I wish "max" mode were just a bit more conservative. Pushing for these "maximum" modes at the limits of the emitter ratings just doesn't make sense from a practical standpoint. A "max" mode with 20% less output (achievable at ~7W instead of ~10W) would have at least 50-60% more runtime and little to no thermal issues.

MM3 on these Wizard Pro's is already closer to ~325 lumen OTF, and the "maximum" by my figuring averages closer to ~750 lumen OTF realistically anyway, so knocking that down to a true ~650 lumen out the front, would have no meaningfully negative impact on illumination performance, but would make the mode far more practical in terms of heat and runtime. 

Oh well, the "pressure" to have a big number is likely to always win in a market where only a few of us are enthusiasts who appreciate this sort of carefully considered optimization.


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## YahFargo (May 19, 2015)

Interesting, my pro V2 begins triple flashing the warm (orange) indicator 2 to 3 minutes after it's turned on Turbo. Same ambient temp


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## mdocod (May 19, 2015)

I'll test my Wife's Wizard Pro V2.... She's not home she doesn't have to know...

[edit in]: orange blinking temp warning kicked in at 15 minutes. The starting temp for the light was likely a bit cooler, as it was in our bedroom.


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## YahFargo (May 19, 2015)

Just timed mine, it's worse than I thought. At 1.5 minutes the orange light started blinking, at 3min 20 sec it flashed red and kicked to a lower output. It stayed there for 2 minutes flashing yellow at reduced output, at which point I bumped back up to turbo manually. It ran for about 1 minute before flashing red and kicking down again. Same ambient temp as before, I have no thermometer to measure the light itself


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## mdocod (May 19, 2015)

Sounds like we have a case of goldilock's wizards. Too hot, too cold.... but unfortunately, no "just right" to be found. Odd.


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## FlashlightR (May 20, 2015)

Thanks guys for performing these temperature tests. I have just tested my wizard pro and the behaviour is nearly the same as with YahFargo. It seems like not any wizard is the same....

And indeed Mdocod, why boosting the lumens to the max and have to develop difficult temperature management control systems, it seems to be a marketing thing.....


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## SoundWorx (Jul 27, 2015)

I think a wizard pro using the 26650 and mtg2 would be awesome. Probably not going to happen though.


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## YahFargo (Jan 14, 2016)

YahFargo said:


> Just timed mine, it's worse than I thought. At 1.5 minutes the orange light started blinking, at 3min 20 sec it flashed red and kicked to a lower output. It stayed there for 2 minutes flashing yellow at reduced output, at which point I bumped back up to turbo manually. It ran for about 1 minute before flashing red and kicking down again. Same ambient temp as before, I have no thermometer to measure the light itself



Quoting myself here. I got an infrared thermometer recently and tested when my wizard blinks red and moves to a lower output. Ambient temp was 74F, at 2min 45sec it flashed red and stepped down. Head temp at step down was 129.5F. Anyone else have head Temp measurements at step down?


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