# Fenix E01 vs Arc AAA spec comparison



## cybersoga (Apr 6, 2008)

The new Fenix E01 looks very much like the Arc AAA:

Fenix E01 is $15, Arc AAA is $50 for the GS LED
Fenix 10 lumens, Arc 10.5 lumens
Fenix 7.1cm long, Arc 6.9cm long
Fenix run time 11-hour sun mode plus 10-hour moon mode, Arc 5 hours to 50% light.
Fenix available in different HAIII colours, Arc only available in one HAIII colour.
Fenix can stand on it's end.


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## nbp (Apr 6, 2008)

Is there a question or something here that I missed? :thinking: Im afraid a thread like this is going to turn into a Arc/Fenix bashing fest. I hope I am wrong.


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## BentHeadTX (Apr 6, 2008)

Depends on what you need
The Arc drives the GS LED harder (over 50mA) so the drop in runtime is a given. My guesstimate is Fenix drives the GS LED at around stock levels of 25mA so the runtime should be double over the Arc. Do you want brightness over runtime? LED longevity comes into play also if you use the light a lot since the E01 is not overdriven. 
The Arc should have better HA-III finish so if it hangs on a keychain, the Arc will look much better after a few months of clanging around with your keys. 
The other concepts of ultimate durability, beam quality etc. will be answered through time and reviews. 
Will Arc go with a Luxeon RB120 high flux LED with better regulation on their next AAA? The battle lines are being drawn... the reviews should be rolling into CPF this coming week.


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## thermal guy (Apr 6, 2008)

I think the arc will take more abuse than the fenix BUT for $15 you could buy three for the same price of the arc.


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## indycrucible (Apr 6, 2008)

--Cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to better.
--The run time comparison with the published data is pointless, i.e. what percentage of output is moon mode? Let see what an independant test indicates.
--Color? A purple flashlight is better? 
--Tailstanding is "better" for some no doubt.

I try to spend my money on USA made products when possible, as a resident of the UK, I realize this is not a compelling argument for you.


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## Blue72 (Apr 6, 2008)

Sometimes we get to wrapped up in specifications and features that we land up bypassing better products.


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## Marduke (Apr 6, 2008)

This topic has already been beat to death in the original E01 thread. For those interested, you may want to read this as a side note.


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## Bearcat (Apr 6, 2008)

indycrucible said:


> --Cheaper doesn't necessarily equate to better.
> --The run time comparison with the published data is pointless, i.e. what percentage of output is moon mode? Let see what an independant test indicates.


 

Higher prices doesn't necessarily equate to better either.

Unless I'm not understanding, the published run-times are broken out as to how much sun-mode there is to moon-mode in hours.:thinking:

Another thing, can anyone tell the difference between 10 and 10.5 lumens just with your eyes alone? I would rather have 10 hours of well regulated run-time with 10 lumens than 5 hours of semi-regulated run-time with 10.5 lumens. That's a "no-brainer".


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## Jarl (Apr 6, 2008)

10 lumens to 10.5 lumens is a 5% (ish) difference. Not noticeable, even at such low brightnesses 

However, that's for rated output. The arc doesn't use a regulated board- just a booster. So while the fenix's line is ruler straight, then drops off, maintaining a low level of light for a long time, the arc will start higher than the fenix, drop off so it's lower than the fenix fairly rapidly, and carry on dropping, similar to how the fenix does when it's out of regulation.


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## cybersoga (Apr 6, 2008)

Here's a run time graph from Fenix's web site






And one from Arc's web site


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## Blue72 (Apr 6, 2008)

I am very excited about the e01

However, with the posted runtimes they are advertising I would have to believe it will be less brighter than the ARC.

The same way the fenix e0 compared to the ARC cs, even though they both used a nichia cs led. One had 2x the runtime and the other had 2x the brightness.


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## Marduke (Apr 6, 2008)

dd61999 said:


> I am very excited about the e01
> 
> However, with the posted runtimes they are advertising I would have to believe it will be less brighter than the ARC.
> 
> The same way the fenix e0 compared to the ARC cs, even though they both used a nichia cs led. One had 2x the runtime and the other had 2x the brightness.



Initial brightness only. Shortly after, the Arc CS dips below the E0. I highly suspect the GS will be the same compared to the E01.


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## WadeF (Apr 6, 2008)

ARC shouldn't even be called ARC anymore. It's owned by a company called CIS now and the QC on the Arc GS seems very poor. There are many CPF'ers that got less than perfect ARC GS's, including me. Tomorrow will be one week since I emailed ARC (CIS) so hopefully they'll get back to me soon about my ARC. It seems like the ARC we all grew to love and enjoy isn't there anymore. Unless this CIS company steps up their QC and customer service, lights like the Fenix E01 will just help to put them under. I don't mind spending $50 on an ARC, but it better be a high quality AAA light with the quality and reliability we have learned to love with the early ARC's. If they can't offer that and still insist on charging $50, they are going to P.O. a lot of people. 

Here's my brand new ARC: 
http://picasaweb.google.com/wadefulpng/ARCGS

I hate to keep ranting about my ARC GS, but as long as I'm stuck with it because ARC won't respond to my emails in a timely fashion, I don't have a good ARC GS to talk about. 

Looking forward to my E01's, hopefully they at least have fairly straight LED's so the light shines where I point the flashlight. With my current ARC GS I point it where I need light and the beam says "Hey! I'm over here now!"


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## Blue72 (Apr 6, 2008)

WadeF said:


> ARC shouldn't even be called ARC anymore. It's a company called CIS now and the QC on the Arc GS seems very poor. There are many CPF'ers that got less than perfect ARC GS's, including me. Tomorrow will be one week since I emailed ARC (CIS) so hopefully they'll get back to me soon about my ARC. It seems like the ARC we all grew to love and enjoy isn't there anymore. Unless this CIS company steps up their QC and customer service, lights like the Fenix E01 will just help to put them under. I don't mind spending $50 on an ARC, but it better be a high quality AAA light with the quality and reliability we have learned to love with the early ARC's. If they can't offer that and still insist on charging $50, they are going to P.O. a lot of people.
> 
> I hate to keep ranting about my ARC GS, but as long as I'm stuck with it because ARC won't respond to my emails in a timely fashion, I don't have a good ARC GS to talk about.
> 
> Looking forward to my E01's, hopefully they at least have fairly straight LED's so the light shines where I point the flashlight. With my current ARC GS I point it where I need light and the beam says "Hey! I'm over here now!"


 
Wade, I understand you are upset but I think you are misleading people. Arc has been owned by CIS for many years now. This is nothing new.

I to am dissapointed with the new GS and recent problem with communications, However, it still does not take away from there other products. Overall Arc has had a great reputation. Unfortunately, like all businesses the ball has been dropped recently. Hopefully this is just some growing pains that will be corrected and passed.

Time will tell.


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## WadeF (Apr 6, 2008)

dd61999 said:


> Wade, I understand you are upset but I think you are misleading people. Arc has been owned by CIS for many years now. This is nothing new.


 
Nothing new for you, but it was news to me, and it was news to Sasha (now Greta) as well. So who was misleading people? Greta felt mislead by the fact that she was still maintaining the Arc sub forum for Peter, thinking Peter still owned Arc. 

I'm not that upset about my Arc GS, disappointed yes, but seeing other CPF members also getting bad quality Arc GS's, and some still waiting over 3 weeks to get a refund, etc, it's getting a bit annoying. I think people need to know what is going on with Arc these days so they don't end up in the same situation some of us are finding ourselves in. Hopefully if we speak up, CIS will listen and take steps to improve things so the Arc can return to it's former glory.

I editted my above post to reflect that Arc is owned by CIS, etc.


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## Blue72 (Apr 6, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Nothing new for you, but it was news to me, and it was news to Sasha (now Greta) as well. So who was misleading people? Greta felt mislead by the fact that she was still maintaining the Arc sub forum for Peter, thinking Peter still owned Arc.
> 
> I'm not that upset about my Arc GS, disappointed yes, but seeing other CPF members also getting bad quality Arc GS's, and some still waiting over 3 weeks to get a refund, etc, it's getting a bit annoying. I think people need to know what is going on with Arc these days so they don't end up in the same situation some of us are finding ourselves in. Hopefully if we speak up, CIS will listen and take steps to improve things so the Arc can return to it's former glory.
> 
> I editted my above post to reflect that Arc is owned by CIS, etc.


 

I agree with you and feel your pain on the New GS and recent problems with cust. service.

However, Peter has posted time and time again that decisions are made by the owner and not him. I dont think he ever misrepresented himself as an owner with the new entity formed in 2005.


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## this_is_nascar (Apr 6, 2008)

So, in order to bring this thread back in-line, I'll say that if the E01 lives up to its specs, it will be one heck of a light. I, like many others, are waiting for them to ship.


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## Crenshaw (Apr 6, 2008)

Its hard to say much when the E01 hasnt reached anyone's hands yet..

Crenshaw


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## RdlyLite (Apr 6, 2008)

As a fairly new flashaholic, I am anxiously waiting my Eo1's. These will be my first AAA lights. For the price point of the Arc, it is right around lod ce costs. I have read many good things about arc but all this new info on what is/has happened at ARC is disconcerting to say the least.


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## paulr (Apr 6, 2008)

I have an E01 on order but over-obsession with "specs" misses out on a lot of flashlight enjoyment. Get whatever light you think you will like the most, regardless of its "specs". I still enjoy using my Tekna Splashlite even though its specs are absolutely terrible by today's standards.


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## TORCH_BOY (Apr 7, 2008)

I like the regulation of the Fenix, also the price is right


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## Jarl (Apr 7, 2008)

dd61999 said:


> I am very excited about the e01
> 
> However, with the posted runtimes they are advertising I would have to believe it will be less brighter than the ARC.
> 
> The same way the fenix e0 compared to the ARC cs, even though they both used a nichia cs led. One had 2x the runtime and the other had 2x the brightness.



Please tell me this is a **** take? there's more to efficiency than the LED. (hint: What is missing: Body of light, battery, LED)

Yeah, well done! The driver! So, if fenix is using a more efficient driver than arc, they can get longer runtime and greater brightness! This is crazy stuff!


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## Blue72 (Apr 7, 2008)

Jarl said:


> Please tell me this is a **** take? there's more to efficiency than the LED. (hint: What is missing: Body of light, battery, LED)
> 
> Yeah, well done! The driver! So, if fenix is using a more efficient driver than arc, they can get longer runtime and greater brightness! This is crazy stuff!


 
I am just speculating based on past products, obviously we will see how the two products REALLY compare within a week or so.


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## Blue72 (Apr 7, 2008)

WadeF said:


> ........it was news to Sasha (now Greta) as well. So who was misleading people? Greta felt mislead by the fact that she was still maintaining the Arc sub forum for Peter, thinking Peter still owned Arc............


 
Just as a sidenote.

Here is a thread of Peter announcing the comeback of ARC back in 2005.

He clearly states that he is not the owner. It also shows that Sasha (now Greta) is aware that Peter is no longer the Owner.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/78386&page=3


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## Retral (Jun 9, 2008)

dd61999 said:


> This was a mistake I made when trying to decide between a Corvette and a Porsche. I bought the Corvette because it was cheaper,faster, had better specs and features. But after driving the Porsche I realized it is "not always about the numbers".



Did you seriously just compare the decision between two KEYCHAIN lights to the choice between two sports cars?

First off, E01 is $15.. Arc AAA is $50 - I don't know about you guys, but I don't exactly feel like strapping $50 to my keychain. Second, a lot of things about the e01 are better, aside from perhaps the anodization durability.. I'd rather have 3 E01s than 1 Arc AAA.


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## paulr (Jun 10, 2008)

Retral said:


> Did you seriously just compare the decision between two KEYCHAIN lights to the choice between two sports cars?


I think he did, have you got a problem with that?



> First off, E01 is $15.. Arc AAA is $50


 Funny thing, a nice Spyderco pocket knife is $50 while a CRK Sebenza in patterned Damascus with similar "specs" is over $1000 and people keep buying both. Perhaps those who buy the CRK aren't in it for the "specs".


> I don't know about you guys, but I don't exactly feel like strapping $50 to my keychain.


Funny thing, not everyone is as indifferent to craftsmanship as you are. The first run of PhotonFanatic Ti keychain lights at $95 each is way oversubscribed, it was extended and now there's going to be a second run. I'm eagerly awaiting receiving mine. There is a thread full of posts from people drooling about the possibility of McGizmo making a 1aaa light and it will probably sell out in minutes if he makes it, even though it will probably cost $300 or more. No the people who buy them aren't rich or crazy, they're just appreciative of first class lights and the creativity that goes into them, and they're willing to displace other spending in order to buy them and have something that they treasure.


> Second, a lot of things about the e01 are better, aside from perhaps the anodization durability.. I'd rather have 3 E01s than 1 Arc AAA.


Funny thing, I have 4 Arc AAA's and one Fenix E01 and I like it that way better, so it takes all kinds . As the CPF motto goes, buy both. 

Also (in case not everyone here realizes it by now) the Fenix 10 lumen spec as usual turned out to be ridiculously overstated, and if you put it next to the Arc GS it's obvious that the Arc is about 2x as bright. That's not any kind of technical miracle, the Arc simply uses more battery power to run the led at higher current, based on Arc's designer choosing higher power while Fenix's designer chose longer runtime. That in turn is a normal engineering trade-off except Fenix went on to inflate its output claims to make it sound like it had created lumens out of nowhere and beaten the laws of physics. They didn't. The two lights are basically comparable in terms of circuit efficiency and merely made different trade-offs, as has been analyzed at length in the other thread.


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## WadeF (Jun 10, 2008)

Fenix is probably stating emitter lumens, as they usually do, while Arc is stating out the front lumens since they have access to an integrating sphere. The Fenix E01's are probably in the 5-7 out the front lumen range, the Arc GS is 10.5.

Some of the E01's are brighter than others, comes down to the individual LED and how it performs it would seem. When I tested my first E01 it was putting out more total light (using a bounce box and lux meter) than my SF E1B on low which is rated at 5 lumens. The Arc is clearly brighter, but I don't think the Fenix 10 lumen spec is ridiculously overstated, since they are probably quoting emitter lumens. Nichia probably states that a GS driven at 20mA, or whatever, will produce 10 emitter lumens. Arc is probably getting 15+ emitter lumens out of the GS at the level they drive it at.


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## paulr (Jun 10, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Fenix is probably stating emitter lumens, as they usually do, while Arc is stating out the front lumens since they have access to an integrating sphere.



I don't think that expresses the cause and effect correctly. Everyone has access to an integrating sphere if they are willing to pay for it. Arc uses integrating sphere measurements because that's what you have to do to state lumens from a flashlight truthfully. Fenix states emitter lumens (i.e. exaggerated lumens, maybe "ridiculously" is going a little too far) because they want to be able to advertise bigger numbers and fool people (look at the initial and several later posts in this thread, where posters thought the Fenix and Arc numbers could be compared directly). Stating emitter lumens when you're selling a flashlight rather than an emitter is quite misleading, even if it has enough veneer of justification ("emitter lumens") to avoid being hauled in for fraud. Yes, I'm well aware that various other manufacturers engage in the same practice--so I like to buy from the ones who don't.

Side by side ceiling bounce comparison shows the E01 output is a tad below my Arc CS (rated 5.5) so I'll stay with my 5 lumen estimate (at least for my unit--as you mention, they are not very consistent), which also matches up with the power measurements in the other thread. That would make even 10 emitter lumens an overstatement since usually the loss is only about 1/3. It is possible though that the CS is rated a bit conservatively, putting both a tad higher.


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## sabre7 (Jun 10, 2008)

Marduke said:


> This topic has already been beat to death in the original E01 thread. For those interested, you may want to read this as a side note.


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## Blue72 (Jun 10, 2008)

Retral said:


> Did you seriously just compare the decision between two KEYCHAIN lights to the choice between two sports cars?
> 
> First off, E01 is $15.. Arc AAA is $50 - I don't know about you guys, but I don't exactly feel like strapping $50 to my keychain. Second, a lot of things about the e01 are better, aside from perhaps the anodization durability.. I'd rather have 3 E01s than 1 Arc AAA.


 
Why bother with a 1 FENIX e01 when you can have 3 Dorcy AAA from walmart!


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## Russianesq (Jun 10, 2008)

*some pics are in order*


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## TONY M (Jun 10, 2008)

Nice comparison shot.
The arc looks surprisingly unattractive in that picture compared to the other lights. Not that it bothers me a bit.
Just my $.02


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## Confederate (Aug 15, 2008)

*Is This Company for Real???????*

Nice thread. Having just purchased three E01s, I now feel much better about it! Also, I don't know if the Arc comes with an extra washer, but for the price it should come with an extra flashlight!

Seriously, there several serious advantages of buying an Arc over an E01. First, it comes with a battery and the Fenix doesn't. It also comes with a split-ring, so you can attach it to your keychain. If you buy the Fenix, you're on your own. There's only a hole in the end. And lastly, the Fenix doesn't have a protective lens on the end while the Arc...ummm...doesn't, either! Still, the split-ring and battery can boost the price of a Fenix E01 by as much as, oh, twenty-three cents. Plus you have to go out and _find_ the battery and split-ring and that takes time.

*The company also offers the Arc6*, which uses a single 123A battery to provide a blinding 100 lumens (at least, 120 with a rechargeable) from a P4 LED; seven modes beginning with a low of less than 1 (one) lumen and a battery. Oh, and it comes with a real titanium assault bezel, all for only $300.

The modes are as follows:
*Level 1*: <1 lumen
*Level 2*: 7 lumen
*Level 3*: 35 lumen
*Level 4*: 70 lumen
*Level 5*: 100 lumen
*Level 6*: at least 120 lumen
*Level 7*: >120 lumen
According to the company: _

"With *a fresh battery* and the unit at room temperature, *plan on level 7 lasting for less than 20 seconds* and *level 6 for less than 2 minutes*. Each level lower lasts significantly longer."_ 

I don't know. Is it just me or are these specs a bit ridiculous? This from a three-hundred dollar light? I realize people buy Chris Reeve's Sebenza knives, which offer, as far as I can tell, no tangible performance benefits over other knives, but which costs more than a .357 magnum revolver. Yet, $300 is the current going price for an Arc6.

Sorry if I've stepped on any toes, but when I see some of these things, it just sort of stuns me. Am I missing anything?


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## jzmtl (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



Confederate said:


> It also comes with a split-ring, so you can attach it to your keychain. If you buy the Fenix, you're on your own. There's only a hole in the end.



My e01 came with a split ring in the spare parts bag.


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## LED-holic (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*

My E01s also came with a spare parts bag with extra o-rings and split ring.


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## Confederate (Aug 15, 2008)

I just checked the E01s I got and dang if you're not right. I missed it completely. Glad you mentioned it. Now we're down to the battery.

(BTW, how dim is "moon mode" anyway?) Is it still usable?


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## defloyd77 (Aug 15, 2008)

Confederate said:


> (BTW, how dim is "moon mode" anyway?) Is it still usable?



In my opinion, it's very useful. In fact I use mine in moon mode during hours when everyone else is sleeping and I want to walk around the house without awaking anyone. I don't know how low the voltage is on the cell I use, but it won't fire up my old Dorcy AAA or anything else that uses 1 AAA.


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## LED-holic (Aug 15, 2008)

I took a nearly dead battery out of my car security remote (AAA), and it still fires my E01. I'm unable to kill that battery with my E01. 

The E01 is a true modern marvel.


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## gallagho (Aug 15, 2008)

My 2p worth. I have owned an Arc DS for 1yr+ now. I just bought my g/f an E01. The E01 is noticeably dimmer and bigger. I'll be keeping an Arc on my keyring.


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## PseudoFed (Aug 15, 2008)

Folks, in the last 2 weeks I've ordered 2 E01s and an Arc GS. I ordered the Arc first. It came in with a VERY noticeable flicker, and was dimmer than my older CS arc, and the latter's battery has been in several months! Also, I recommended the light to a friend before seeing it and he ordered one. His would light for 1/2 second and then went dead-over and over, with fresh batteries.

We both returned our lights. He got his replacement immediately, and it's fine. I requested a refund. I was told credit would be issued the day I called, even though bad unit not returned. They actually issued credit the day the bad unit was received. I sent it with delivery confirmation. The first credit issued 8/8 never took. I called Maria (who can be reached after 9:00 pacific time at 602.269.2301). They researched and found the credit never processed by their bank and issued another credit 8/13, which showed up yesterday. Stay with them BY PHONE and you should get satisfaction.

As for the E01s, the olives are beautiful and work great--though they are not brighter or whiter than my ARc CSs. I liked them so much I ordered an L0D. Got it, and sold the E01s same day for the $14 I paid for each!


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## Confederate (Aug 15, 2008)

gallagho said:


> The E01 is noticeably dimmer and bigger. I'll be keeping an Arc on my keyring.


Based on the photo, the E01 is not significantly larger. As for the brightness, using a rechargeable battery is enough to boost either light. In your opinion, what is it about the Arc that would justify its $50 price? With two fresh batteries of the same make, kind and batch, I believe the brightness on both units would be approximately the same because the components are so similar.

On a Survival Today website, a reviewer noted: _"The Fenix throws out roughly three times the light of the Arc AAA, for one third of the price. Quality-wise, it’s not as good as the Arc. However, the Fenix is still built like a tank (with Type III anodizing) and should sustain heavy use (and abuse). The Fenix E01 is also slightly larger than the Arc AAA."_

Since some people say the Arc produces more light and others say the Arc does, I can only conclude, 1) the lights are not being compared with identical batteries; or 2) production samples are spotty and not consistent. Having recently tested three Fenix E01s with the same battery, all three had identical output. That's in keeping with Fenix's reputation for quality and consistency. Having never owned an Arc, it remains a question mark.

As for size differences, true, the Arc is slightly smaller, though not significantly so in my book to justify such a huge difference in price. I doubt whether a person could tell whether he had an Arc, Fenix or whether he had left his light in his top drawer. 

My conclusion is that at one-third the price, the Fenix is the hands-down winner between the two. Even if both lights cost the same, I'd still say it was a toss up. I wish the Fenix E01 was available with green, red and blue LEDs. I'd probably have a tub full of them.


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## HKJ (Aug 15, 2008)

Confederate said:


> Since some people say the Arc produces more light and others say the Arc does, I can only conclude, 1) the lights are not being compared with identical batteries; or 2) production samples are spotty and not consistent.



3) They are not using the same version of the Arc and with fresh batteries. The arc does not keep a constant output, the newest Arc is brighter than the Fenix for a few hours, then the Fenix is brightest. That is the difference between regulated or not:

Fenix keep a constant output until the battery is nearly empty.
Arc has a declining output from star to finish. The starts is brighter than Fenix (for the newest model).


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## sunspot (Aug 15, 2008)

I’ve read so much about the E01 I had to buy one. Overall, I’ll keep my ARC. The E01 isn’t bad, in fact it will make a nice gift, it’s just not for me.
I did order a TK10 on the same order. WOW, is it bright. I really like the 60/225 lm. I may sell one of my Aleph’s.


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## tricker (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



Confederate said:


> Nice thread. Having just purchased three E01s, I now feel much better about it! Also, I don't know if the Arc comes with an extra washer, but for the price it should come with an extra flashlight!
> 
> Seriously, there several serious advantages of buying an Arc over an E01. First, it comes with a battery and the Fenix doesn't. It also comes with a split-ring, so you can attach it to your keychain. If you buy the Fenix, you're on your own. There's only a hole in the end. And lastly, the Fenix doesn't have a protective lens on the end while the Arc...ummm...doesn't, either! Still, the split-ring and battery can boost the price of a Fenix E01 by as much as, oh, twenty-three cents. Plus you have to go out and _find_ the battery and split-ring and that takes time.
> 
> ...



what does this have to do with anything??...McGizmo's are 400$ and are around 40-60 lumens, yet very highly reguarded......different strokes for different folks.....objectively the fenix wins, but subjectively, for me, i like the arc


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## shomie911 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



tricker said:


> what does this have to do with anything??...McGizmo's are 400$ and are around 40-60 lumens, yet very highly reguarded......different strokes for different folks.....*objectively the fenix wins, but subjectively, for me, i like the arc*



Same here, bought both the Arc and the Fenix. The Arc is a used one but I still like it better, it's a bit smaller, and just fits with the rest of my keychain better. It also feels very solid.

Both lights are great, I would be satisfied with either on my keychain, they are far more similar than different.


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## arty (Aug 15, 2008)

I have an Arc CS and it sits on my car key ring. It has survived lots of falls and always works. I had a Fenix EO, and it went to my wife. I also have 2 Peak Matterhorns, 2 Liteflux LF2 and LF2X, and 2 Peak Baltics.

I want reliable and small, and the ARC does it. It is smaller than the Fenix EO1 (and the original EO). If I want a light as large as the EO on my car keys, I'd use a Liteflux, or perhaps an LOD.

I would not buy a GS version, given what I have read about it, but I would certainly consider a DS (or another ARC CS at 2X the price of the Fenix). I could not tell the difference in overall light level between my ARC and a Fenix E1 that I gave to a friend.


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 15, 2008)

I've always been a big fan of Arcs, but I've never understood why so many say the Arc is stronger and better built. I think it's more perception than reality. Yes, it's design looks classier and cleaner, but that doesn't mean stronger. In fact, the body wall of the E01 appears thicker. Has it ever been shown that Arc uses better aluminum with greater crush resistance? Never liked the battery smasher design, either, or that it relies on good contact through the threads. It's still a nice light, but not clearly the best in my opinion.

Geoff


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## Confederate (Aug 21, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



tricker said:


> *What does this have to do with anything??...McGizmo's are 400$ and are around 40-60 lumens, yet very highly regarded...different strokes for different folks.....objectively the Fenix wins, but subjectively, for me, i like the Arc.*


Well, liking it and paying for it are two different things. 

I imagine if someone wants to spend fifty bucks on an ARC, they're certainly free to do so and I hope they're happy with their decisions. As far as I can tell, there's not a thimble's full of difference between the two—just the price tag. The question, however, is what is a person getting for the extra thirty-something bucks? 

The U.S. is filled with status symbols and glitz. Now I can see why someone would rather get a Colt Python .357 magnum, because the Python has demonstrable performance increases over less expensive revolvers. For self defense or police use, a bad guy won't be able to tell the difference if he's on the wrong end of either. Still, the performance increase is, again, demonstrable.

People who like knives go out and buy Sebenzas at frightful sums. And people can buy Arc and McGizmo flashlights. But when someone asks, "Where's the beef?" well, that's not so easy. A Sebenza's not going to cut any better or longer than much, much, much cheaper knives, nor are those Arcs and McGizmos going to shine any prettier or longer than cheaper, premium quality flashlights. Still, what I might call money down a clap trap is, to others, not so clear cut. And as long as someone will shell out the $$$ for Arcs and Sebenzas, I'm sure the makers won't turn them down.

To those who want to pretend there's a big difference in light and size, I'm willing to humor them for the sake of free enterprise and they're welcome to carry fifty-dollar keychain lights. In fact, I have a bridge they might be interested in buying....







_I love the colors. Still, if you want, you can still get
basic black. My favorite is the olive/titanium.


_


----------



## WadeF (Aug 21, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*

I actually want to run down a AAA so I have an E01 that only comes on in moon mode. The problem is if the battery "rests" for awhile it often builds up enough voltage to fire up the E01 at a fairly bright level.  I got over 40 hours of usuable light from a AAA, and I probably could have squeezed out more if I allowed the AAA to rest more between uses.


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## tricker (Aug 21, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



Confederate said:


> Well, liking it and paying for it are two different things.
> 
> I imagine if someone wants to spend fifty bucks on an ARC, they're certainly free to do so and I hope they're happy with their decisions. As far as I can tell, there's not a thimble's full of difference between the two—just the price tag. The question, however, is what is a person getting for the extra thirty-something bucks?
> 
> ...




so you agree with me?...arcs as far as i can tell have demonstrated a resume of continued reliability, beating the fenix to the market by 4+ years.... some people prioritize differently, is size worth the extra 30$ for me...no, but there are other factors that come into play that make it worth it to me, your experience may very.....the reason all of these things are sucessful is because of their differences, i'm no fenix hater or arc fanboy but we're all pretty opionated here and my preference stands as such proof


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## bullfrog (Aug 21, 2008)

I have a few of both lights - I prefer the arc and carry it on my keychain. It just feels a bit more reliable to me, "tried and true" and it has a floodier beam.

I wonder if my E01 will still be kicking after 6.5 years of use on my keyring like this arc:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205309&highlight=arc+years+keychain+retired

I guess we'll just have to wait and see


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## Confederate (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



tricker said:


> arcs as far as i can tell have demonstrated a resume of continued reliability, beating the fenix to the market by 4+ years.... some people prioritize differently, is size worth the extra 30$ for me...no, but there are other factors that come into play that make it worth it to me.


The E01 isn't exactly an engineering marvel. You've got a long-life LED drawing on a small but potent battery and a frame that accommodates it! Even if there were no E01s, there'd be absolutely NO WAY I'd pay fifty bucks for a similar light. Fenix is making the lights out of top notch materials and selling them at enough profit to keep them in business. Arc's probably got quite a hefty profit margin built in.


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## sunspot (Aug 22, 2008)

I handed my wife both the Fenix and my Arc and asked her which one she liked better. After about 5 minutes she handed both back. “The Arc” she said. 
She is not a flashaholic but she knows what she likes.
BTW, I dropped a Malkoff M60F in her Silver SF 6P. She also liked that.


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## DArklite (Aug 22, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> I have a few of both lights - I prefer the arc and carry it on my keychain. It just feels a bit more reliable to me, "tried and true" and it has a floodier beam.
> 
> I wonder if my E01 will still be kicking after 6.5 years of use on my keyring like this arc:
> 
> ...



With any luck, it'll be ANOTHER 6.5 years  I'm still carrying it along with the L0D.

@sunspot: Not to highjack the thread, but hand your wife the Arc along with the Fenix L0D, since they're closer in price (even though the L0D's still cheaper) and see which one she likes. Of course, at that point, she may be wondering about the flashlight "budget". 
Just be sure to hide the MaxaBeam brochures


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 22, 2008)

The E01 is a differant design.

The on off switching is totaly differant in the contacts.

The E01 has a spring...combined with the differant swithing concept...it does not crush the board. 

The E01 is regulated

The E01 has not been around for years...few are going to have a love for it...probably never will. When the Arc came out it was a shocker...sort of. Bright as a Photon...but running off only 1.5 volts, not 6.

The E01 competes at a time when there are far brighter AAA lights...usefull...long run time...but will never have the mystic/love affair the arc has enjoyed. Perhaps the Fenix L0D might...folks might have fond memories of it...defend it even after something oblivously better...at a lower price is out.


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## Confederate (Aug 22, 2008)

sunspot said:


> I handed my wife both the Fenix and my Arc and asked her which one she liked better. After about 5 minutes she handed both back. “The Arc” she said.


All things being equal (in price), one might instinctively pick the Arc; however, take three E01s and one Arc and give your spouse or a friend the choice between the three and the one and see which deal they go with. Given a choice between a Ruger Security-Six revolver and a Smith & Wesson 66 (both similar shapes, sizes, accuracy), many instinctively would go with the latter, and it's an excellent revolver. BUT...the Ruger is technologically superior and will vastly outlast the Smith. The Ruger has a solid frame (no side plate), thick topstrap, tougher forcing cone, etc. In fact, the Smith will still cost you considerably more than the Ruger, but there's no doubt that the Ruger is a far better revolver. With the Arc, if you showed your wife both lights in a store and said one costs fifty bucks and the other only fifteen, I wonder what her answer would be then. 

I might like a blue shirt better than a yellow one. But if the yellow one was on a half price sale, I'd likely choose it.


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## paulr (Aug 22, 2008)

Confederate said:


> All things being equal (in price), one might instinctively pick the Arc; however, take three E01s and one Arc and give your spouse or a friend the choice between the three and the one and see which deal they go with.



But the choices we CPF'ers make shouldn't be expected to resemble the ones our non-flashaholic spouses or friends would make. After all, we are CPF'ers precisely because we are into flashlights, just like some people are into audio gear, guitars, high performance bicycles, microbrew beer or specialty coffee, etc. So it's not terribly relevant to evaluate a CPF'er flashlight choice by non-CPF'er standards. My buddy Andrew is a beer aficionado, and he fairly routinely goes to a specialty shop and buys some exotic import beer for $10 a bottle or whatever. I think most of us don't see that as incomprehensible even if we're not into fancy beer and wouldn't spend that much ourselves. We can appreciate that his beer-buying criteria are different from ours. So why should we expect CPF'ers to have the same flashlight-buying criteria as our friends our spouses? At least after we buy a flashlight and use it for a while, we still have it and can maybe swap it for another one that catches our fancy. Try doing the same with beer 



> I might like a blue shirt better than a yellow one. But if the yellow one was on a half price sale, I'd likely choose it.



Well, I have to ask why you're buying either shirt. If it's to have something to wear and you don't have enough shirts, then fine, you have to make a cost-benefit decision. If it's because you're into shirts and buy them for enjoyment even though you already have plenty, and the cost of the one you like better isn't enough to noticably impact your overall finances, then the decision to buy the one you like less is a little confusing. The most sensible financial decision is to buy neither shirt.


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## orcinus (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



Confederate said:


> Sorry if I've stepped on any toes, but when I see some of these things, it just sort of stuns me. Am I missing anything?




Yes. The first hand experience and the fact Peter understates the lumen figures, esp. when compared to so called "eastern" lumens. Note i'm not a xenophobe - far from it, in fact. Practically all my lights are chinese, taiwanese etc. and i seriously don't see anything wrong with them, but the fact they overstate their lumen figures (yes, even "torch-lumens") is just that - fact. Nothing to be offended about, as long as you bear in mind not everyone measures things according to the same standards. Anyone remember "japanese horsepowers"?

My experience with Arc6 wasn't very long, due to a K2 emitter that decided to fail the same day it arrived (that's just my luck - things die on me like crazy lately, especially gadgets and gizmos), but it was an awesome one.

You have to hold it to appreciate the machining and feel. About the only gripe i've had with it was a stiff piston - everything else was just perfect. And you really have to see it in person to see how small it really is - without the titanium bezel and the protruding piston "plunger" it's as tall as a Fenix P1D and just slightly wider. And then there's the beam, one of the smoothest out there, with a nice warm tint (not green, but nice, creamy yellowish white). And the output, of course...

At levels 4 and 5 it comparable with Fenix P1D on Turbo, yet seems to heat up less aggressively. 6 and 7 are quite obviously brighter, even to the naked eye (didn't manage to snap a few beamshots, unfortunately). Yeah, they heat up, but considering the size of the light, it's completely expected.

Is it really 100% totally completely worth the $300 (production) or $350 (pre-production)? Maybe not, objectively. But there's a thing called diminishing returns in every industry, including flashlights. After a certain point, you have to pay _much_ more to get something that's comparatively "less more" better.

Anyway, sorry for the OT, people, just wanted to present a different side and insight to the argument.


----------



## tricker (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



Confederate said:


> The E01 isn't exactly an engineering marvel. You've got a long-life LED drawing on a small but potent battery and a frame that accommodates it! Even if there were no E01s, there'd be absolutely NO WAY I'd pay fifty bucks for a similar light. Fenix is making the lights out of top notch materials and selling them at enough profit to keep them in business. Arc's probably got quite a hefty profit margin built in.



yes....this is supply and demand at it most fundamental :twothumbs....buying american isn't big to me, but that has to factor in a little but but i'm sure Arc still makes atleast 4 times the profit fenix does


edit: this seems to be going arc vs fenix, but as we see there not really in the niche


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## HKJ (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



tricker said:


> yes....this is supply and demand at it most fundamental :twothumbs....buying american isn't big to me, but that has to factor in a little but but i'm sure Arc still makes atleast 4 times the profit fenix does



The profit thing is not that easy to calculate, Arc is probably paying a lot more for the manufacturing of each light than Fenix and Arc probably also has to pay the development with a lot fewer sales than Fenix.

Remember that any product has both initial cost and production cost for each item. Initial cost has to be spread on each produced item and production is very depends on number of items. I.e. a manufacture selling 10000 lights and one selling 1000 lights has a very different cost for each light.


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## Confederate (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



orcinus said:


> ...compared to so called "eastern" lumens. Note i'm not a xenophobe - far from it, in fact. Practically all my lights are chinese, taiwanese etc. and i seriously don't see anything wrong with them, but the fact they overstate their lumen figures...is just that - fact.


Don't get me wrong, I think people take into consideration many more things than just logic and needs. (After all, logically, why would anyone need more than just a couple of flashlights?) The overrating of products is nothing new and not limited to the Chinese or Asians. In fact, there are few product makers who are entirely truthful when it comes to specs. Cars very rarely get their estimated mpg, ammunition for firearms never quite meets its fps ratings, knife manufacturers rarely make their steels as hard and as good as their promo literature suggests, and so it goes for batteries, water filters, video cards and, well, you get the message.

To a person in the market for a tiny light, though, I'd never recommend the ARC, just as I would never recommend a CR Sebenza for anyone wanting a knife. One thing about this Spartanian II light that's in the works is that it was carefully created to be a quality product that is reasonably priced. But introducing a great light is only half the battle. Inova had great lights in the beginning, but its corporate structure, while ensuring continued quality, was not able to ensure that the company would keep up technology wise. Thus, their lights are made to last forever, but many of them are using obsolete technology. I could pull my hair out over the pile of Inovas I still have. Two-hour runtimes while putting out only modest amounts of light....

ARC may have produced their product well before Fenix produced theirs, but the two lights are so close in quality, size and build that, "Hey, it's an ARC!" just isn't good enough. Nikon and Olympus, followed by Canon, had to come off their high horses and create reasonably priced digital cameras to stay competitive. Had they continued under the impression that their names were worth a couple of hundred dollars more, they wouldn't have survived. It happened with the Swiss and watches. Switzerland thought no one would ever buy electric quartz watches when they could have real quality.

Now the Japanese/Chinese own the market. Some people still buy Swiss watches, of course, but the plusses of Swiss watches pretty much exist between their ears. And it's not like maintenance of those watches has remained reasonable. The people who worked on them and who knew them retired and died out, leaving only a very few who, by the way, are very expensive.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from.


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## VF1Jskull1 (Aug 22, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*

i have the arc-p AAA and still bought 2 fenix E01s, black one for me and purple for the wife. the arc kinda introduced me to the world of edc, leds, and hard anodizing... the arc has shown its wear and tear over the 4 years i've had it with keys and such. the fenix is my bedside night light, since i have another fenix L0P with the arc on my keys. if they came out at the same time, i wouldn't have looked at the arc at all.


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## orcinus (Aug 22, 2008)

@*Confederate* - i totally agree with everything you've said (especially about the Spartanian II), except the very end. In fact, what you've written at the beginning is what i wanted to (but failed to) write.

Regarding the end part - there will _always_ be a market for high-priced, "luxury" models, high performance models that offer doubtful improvements over price, bleeding edge technological demonstrators that offer high performance in one area by "stealing" it from another area etc. Yes, Canon, Nikon and Oly did get off their high horses (Nikon more than Oly), but take a closer look - did they oust their high-end models? Nope! 

In fact, both Nikon and Canon have been steadily _increasing_ the prices of their flagships since the introduction of the entry-level DSLR market. And that's how things work for almost any high-tech market branch out there, including watches. And don't get me even started on companies that produce high-end, luxury or just plain expensive items exclusively. While we're on the subject of cameras, let's use Hasselblad as an example. A friend, studio photographer, recently bought the new digital Hass. I won't even bother quoting the price, it's downright ridiculous. While he did have a lot of good stuff to say about it's color reproduction and resolution, he says it's downright annoying in very basic stuff like ergonomics and even quality of the machining. Cameras like 1Ds Mk II seem to wipe the floor with it in that area. So you have a product which offers some advanced performance, objectively usable only under very special conditions (studio work, ideal conditions), that underperforms in almost every other aspect and costs an order of magnitude more. Yet there are people who will buy it without thinking and i haven't seen any indication Hass will soon be out of business.

Hype? I think not. There are companies and product lines that function on different laws of economics than we, mass consumers, are used to. Instead of selling a lot of pieces at an attractive price, they shoot at selling a relatively small batch of pieces at exorbitant (or noticeably above the average) prices. And that can work too! And the bigger a niche the market is (hinthint - high end flashlights), the more common it is.

What Arc/MTD should _really_ do - if it were to follow the lead/example of the recent, successful players in the market - is introduce a bunch of "entry level", attractive, value-for-money models while keeping the expensive ones like Arc6 alive and kicking.


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## Confederate (Aug 22, 2008)

Very well put!

And though the big camera companies did have flagships, they created really good cameras that competed (wiped out, sorta) with upcoming companies. Had they not done so, companies like Fuji would have had them for breakfast.

I'm not into buying flagships, as you might have surmised; however, I've been mightily impressed with my digital cameras. And Nikon and Olympus have kept on the bleeding edge very well. There's nothing wrong with selling Swiss watches, as long as you also sell the Japanese quartzes. The idea is making money across the board.

ARC has already gone out of business once and small wonder (no pun). They won't be able to compete with Fenix in the long run and their prices will have to either come down or they will fail. ARC doesn't have a sustainable reputation, and it's small (no pun) cadre of patrons will not save them.


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## Patriot (Sep 20, 2008)

There are so many threads about the EO1, the largest of which was closed  .....so I've just picked this thread since it was in the "LED FLashlights" section.

In any case I was just curious if anyone had used a 10440 in a EO1. I was wondering if it would mean instant destruction or if it would last a little while. If it has never been done before I was thinking about giving it a shot just to see how long it would live, since I've always wondered about how robust the GS is. Before I try anything though, I thought I'd ask if anyone else had done it already.

Thanks


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## TONY M (Sep 20, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> In any case I was just curious if anyone had used a 10440 in a EO1... Before I try anything though, I thought I'd ask if anyone else had done it already.


 I havent tried it, thats me off the list then. 
Who's got the bravery to try it first?


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## kaichu dento (Sep 20, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> There are so many threads about the EO1, the largest of which was closed  .....so I've just picked this thread since it was in the "LED FLashlights" section.
> 
> In any case I was just curious if anyone had used a 10440 in a EO1. I was wondering if it would mean instant destruction or if it would last a little while. If it has never been done before I was thinking about giving it a shot just to see how long it would live, since I've always wondered about how robust the GS is. Before I try anything though, I thought I'd ask if anyone else had done it already.
> 
> Thanks


The info you want is in the Fenix L0D emitter poll, actually being discussed right now! 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2633134#post2633134


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## Patriot (Sep 20, 2008)

kaichu dento said:


> The info you want is in the Fenix L0D emitter poll, actually being discussed right now!
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2633134#post2633134





I don't think so Kaichu.......:thinking:

I was referring to the EO1, not the LOD


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## EngrPaul (Sep 20, 2008)

*The things I like better about the E01:*


Does tailstands
Won't wear a hole in your pocket
Works reliably, doesn't flicker
Doesn't crush batteries
Uses reliable gold contacts, not solder and crushed aluminum
Regulated output
Price
*The things I like better about my Arc AAA-P*


More robust keyhole
A flashaholic staple
Supported US manufacturing
Doubles as a fingernail file


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## geepondy (Sep 20, 2008)

Gosh, I wish Fenix would release an E02 for those of us that are willing to sacrifice some runtime for a brighter output. That is a very important point about the E01 not being a battery crusher like the Arc.


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## kaichu dento (Sep 20, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> I don't think so Kaichu.......:thinking:
> 
> I was referring to the EO1, not the LOD


Oooooooooooooooooooooooopppppppsssssssssssss!!! 

Oh well, I tried! :naughty:


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## kaichu dento (Sep 20, 2008)

geepondy said:


> Gosh, I wish Fenix would release an E02 for those of us that are willing to sacrifice some runtime for a brighter output. That is a very important point about the E01 not being a battery crusher like the Arc.


I bought a couple E01's for gifts and still have one left because I don't really like them when I can give L0D's instead. That purple beam is just a deal killer for me. :thumbsdow 

Would sure be nice to have something less spendy than the L0D, but still nice for gifts, from the perspective of those of us who don't like the E01.


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## Patriot (Sep 20, 2008)

geepondy said:


> Gosh, I wish Fenix would release an E02 for those of us that are willing to sacrifice some runtime for a brighter output. That is a very important point about the E01 not being a battery crusher like the Arc.




Except brighter AAA lights already exist right? By brighter, do you just mean something in the 15 lumen range but still a 5mm nichia. I'm not sure how hard the GS can be driven off hand but I don't know if it would handle double the output....say 20 lumens?? I think the run-time is what makes the light. I think the EO1 would be a great light if Fenix would just use better tinted LEDs.


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## tsask (Sep 21, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> .
> 
> In any case I was just curious if anyone had used a 10440 in a EO1.


 
I run a 10440 in my L0D. It's great. Since the E01 is a lower powered LED, I would not expect anything good to come from a 10440.:thinking:


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## hyperloop (Oct 29, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> There are so many threads about the EO1, the largest of which was closed  .....so I've just picked this thread since it was in the "LED FLashlights" section.
> 
> In any case I was just curious if anyone had used a 10440 in a EO1. I was wondering if it would mean instant destruction or if it would last a little while. If it has never been done before I was thinking about giving it a shot just to see how long it would live, since I've always wondered about how robust the GS is. Before I try anything though, I thought I'd ask if anyone else had done it already.
> 
> Thanks


 
A little bump here. Has anyone done that yet?? A 10440 in the E01?? I figured that someone must have asked this before, so following the principle of SIYBF (Search Is Your Best Friend), i found this thread


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## Bonky (Oct 29, 2008)

Meow meow meow!!


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## Upplyst (Oct 29, 2008)

Bonky said:


> +1
> 
> Single-mode twisty AAA with 25 lumens and 4-5 hour runtime on alks. 70mm by 14mm.
> 
> That's what I want.



It looks like it exists now! 400 minutes on Lithium primary AAA, 170 minutes on NIMH and 100 minutes on Alkalines. No 4-5 hours on alks, but 400 minutes on a lithium battery is not too bad for an EDC.

The so called buckle light in version V now comes in 3 versions. MAX, RT and XRT as in extended runtime, I suppose. 

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=5628


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## drmaxx (Oct 29, 2008)

*Re: Is This Company for Real???????*



Confederate said:


> DIt happened with the Swiss and watches. Switzerland thought no one would ever buy electric quartz watches when they could have real quality.
> 
> Now the Japanese/Chinese own the market. Some people still buy Swiss watches, of course, but the plusses of Swiss watches pretty much exist between their ears. And it's not like maintenance of those watches has remained reasonable. The people who worked on them and who knew them retired and died out, leaving only a very few who, by the way, are very expensive.



It's a little OT, but not too much. The Swiss watch industry did hesitate to switch over to electric quatz watches - not because they thought that nobody would want cheap stuff. The main reason is: How do you distinguish your product in a mass market where almost anybody can chime in? How can you compete with a highly skilled and high cost labour force in a market where only price matters? The Japanese and Chinese are no idiots and really are capable of producing good mass produced stuff. Luckily (for us Swiss) they found a way (three ways to be precise).

This is exactly the problem that ARC has. They have a high end product that does not differ too much in functionality from the (way) cheaper 'clones' out there. In order to keep up the price you either need a brand name that people trust and/or customers that can evaluate/appriciate the additional quality they pay.


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## crocodilo (Oct 29, 2008)

Well, my bad luck, my wife's Arc simply died the other day. It was never subjected to any abuse. No new battery nor contact cleanup made any difference. So much for Arc reliability. Any costumer service would be useless, since I live in Europe, and with the money to send back the Arc I could buy other lights and have them delivered to my door probably before the Arc gets anyone to start working on it.

Before that, my only other flashlight failing had been a Jetbeam C-LE which crushed the battery negative beyond any possible contact. The Arc shares this mode of operation.

On the other hand, my bottom-springed Fenix E01 is still going purplishly strong.

I really whish I could still trust my $40-$50 Arcs. I don't.


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## Bonky (Oct 29, 2008)

Upplyst said:


> It looks like it exists now! 400 minutes on Lithium primary AAA, 170 minutes on NIMH and 100 minutes on Alkalines. No 4-5 hours on alks, but 400 minutes on a lithium battery is not too bad for an EDC.
> 
> The so called buckle light in version V now comes in 3 versions. MAX, RT and XRT as in extended runtime, I suppose.
> 
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=5628



You're absolutely right, and I did see that. The only problems with it are, 1) it's too fat and 2) the quality of those buckle lights has historically been rather low. I made myself a promise a couple months ago that I'd never buy a cheapo light again (I have 3 or 4 that are sitting around in various states of brokenness).

But I appreciate you letting me know. It's SO CLOSE to what I'm looking for and I think the idea of having different versions of a light with different brightnesses/runtimes is very cool.


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## nativecajun (Oct 4, 2010)

I always wondered what all the fuss about the Arc AAA was. When you can buy AAA lights with higher lumen output for way less money and the higher output running much longer than the Arc. Now it is like this, the way I see it. The Arc was the best for so long some people just like to stick with the old tried and true I suppose. Like owning a classic. I would like to own a Arc AAA just to feel it and see how it operates and how long the battery actually lasts. But every time I look at it I say Naaa it cost to much compared to others that are better in my opinion. 

But as suspision goes I will probably get one one day just to satisfy the curiosity. 

It is the Arc 6 I think it is that I really would like to have. 123 battery one which ever one that is. But now we are talking champaign money.

For now I will stick with my MyShondt Aeon and Quark mini CR2. I carry them both every day. With an extra battery as well. The same battery format and if one goes caputs I have the other. But I do like that New Revo a lot. I like its low. And all its runtimes. And of course its looks are not to shabby. I am trying to figure out what battery format to go with right now. the CR2's are getting harder to come by in a good bulk price. But with the light that little Quark CR2 puts out it is hard to believe every time I see it.


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## kaichu dento (Oct 5, 2010)

nativecajun said:


> I always wondered what all the fuss about the Arc AAA was. When you can buy AAA lights with higher lumen output for way less money and the higher output running much longer than the Arc. Now it is like this, the way I see it. The Arc was the best for so long some people just like to stick with the old tried and true I suppose. Like owning a classic. I would like to own a Arc AAA just to feel it and see how it operates and how long the battery actually lasts. But every time I look at it I say Naaa it cost to much compared to others that are better in my opinion.
> 
> But as suspision goes I will probably get one one day just to satisfy the curiosity.
> 
> ...


I'm a bit of a CR2 fan myself! :thumbsup:

Your thoughts on the Arc-AAA and Arc6 match mine pretty well, before I had either one of them. It was curiosity that got me into both and what made me like the Arc-AAA so much was the way they feel in your hand. I don't care so much for the beam or color, but there's something nice about them that you don't appreciate until the first time you hold one.

My friend's wife refused all manner of lights, from Photon's and L0D's, to LF2XT's and Quark MiNi's. The light she finally accepted from me was the featherweight Arc-AAA and she knew nothing of it's heritage, only that it was enough light, it weighed virtually nothing and she thought it had a feel of quality that pushed her over the edge.


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## ama230 (Oct 5, 2010)

I have two of the fenix e01's and absolutely love them. I dont care where the money is spent as they have a solid product. 

Also if you want a longer runtime you could get a new photon freedom as this is hands down brighter than the arc and fenix and has alot better beam, as it uses the GS K1 C0W bin which is the brightest 5mm at the moment and not to mention the awesome warm tint. Its also cheaper and the warranty is in the US and has a covert nose or an exposed for beam preferences. Absolutely failproof and is alot more versatile than any other light out there. They need to make a rechargeable one like the rex but with one led.

Arc is more of a novelty item that costs maybe $10 at the most to make with parts and labor. 

Then again its preference as I am not knocking any as they are great little lights but I like to have a few spares of such things and spending over a certain amount does not make it feel like a better light. Then money can be allocated elsewhere.

Just my two cents to save two cents....lovecpf


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