# Surefire Saint headlamp? (Part 1)



## Vermonter73

In the July 2008 issue of Outside magazine on page 112 they have a picture of a Surefire headlamp! It's supposedly called the Saint. They say 100 lumens in the blurb.

I can't find any info anywhere about this. Anybody know what's up?


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## Vermonter73

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I just got off the phone with a very friendly lady at Surefire. The Saint does exist, but she had no specs yet. She said it should be available at dealers in early August and available through Surefire's website August 31st.


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## Rob187

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Interesting!


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## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

DETAILS!!!!........SOMEONE PLEASE!!!!

YES I"M YELLING LIKE BILLY MAYS DAMNIT!!!


SOUNDS VERY INTERESTING!!!!

I NEED SOME MORE INFO SO I CAN STOP YELLING!!!


thanks.


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## Burgess

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Sounds interesting . . . .



_


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## WildChild

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*


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## ltiu

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Pricing? $$$$ ???


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## greenLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*


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## Burgess

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

If ONLY we had a CPF member 

who had an "inside track" with SureFire . . . .




_


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## :)>

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Now we're talking!


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## nzbazza

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Hope this headlamp is not another piece of vapourware like the Fenix headlamp.

Can someone post a scan of the page?


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## SilentK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Scan! Scan! Scan! i am SOOO frigin' exited! i am bouncing up and down at this very moment!!! i need info of  once again, another great leap for surefire.


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## RGB_LED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

! With all the announcements and pre-order threads for the new SF lights, there was no mention of this... and they are planning on delivery in August? How did we miss this?! 

Size15's, as you seem to be somewhat of a SF guru, can you shed any... uh, light, on this one?


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## CLHC

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*


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## Shreknow91

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Burgess said:


> If ONLY we had a CPF member
> 
> who had an "inside track" with SureFire . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _





Where the F*CK is PK when we need him?!?!?!?!!?


Or Size 15?!?!?


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## greenLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I dragged myself to the bookstore today just to check this out. 

Yup, there it was... the Saint, $150. I don't have a means right now of scanning or taking pictures or I would've brought the magazine home to share the image.

From the magazine pic (tiny), it looks like it'll have a rear-placed battery pack (there's a cable running along the side of the headband. It also has a top (elastic?) band.

The LED assembly is cylindrical, with 2 thick knobs at the ends. The battery cable goes on one end. I can only imagine the other is the on/off/selector knob? Looked like the typical SF HA finish.

The LED seemed to be in the middle of the cylinder, but the pic was too tiny to really see if it had an optic system or if it was an "open" LED like the H30/50's.

All I can say is...


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## mspeterson

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*


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## Yucca Patrol

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Typical of Surefire. . . . . they make a really fantastic body for an LED that is a lot dimmer than it should/could be. If I am going to waste my money buying CR123's for a headlamp, it had better put out something in the neighborhood of 200 Lumens on high. . . . 

I guess we can hope that Hong Kong comes up with some drop-ins for the best American-made headlamp.

I'll hold out for the Fenix headlamp. . . .I'm sure it will approach 200 lumens and will likely be able to do that using two or three rechargeable AA's


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## knightrider

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Very cool!


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## nzbazza

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

@mspeterson, thanks for the scan.

It sure looks industrial!


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## FrogmanM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

YES THANK YOU PK/SF!!!! def in my price range!!!

Mayo


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## greenLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



nzbazza said:


> @mspeterson, thanks for the scan.


yup, thanks!


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## dandruff

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Yucca Patrol said:


> Typical of Surefire. . . . . they make a really fantastic body for an LED that is a lot dimmer than it should/could be. If I am going to waste my money buying CR123's for a headlamp, it had better put out something in the neighborhood of 200 Lumens on high. . . .
> 
> I guess we can hope that Hong Kong comes up with some drop-ins for the best American-made headlamp.
> 
> I'll hold out for the Fenix headlamp. . . .I'm sure it will approach 200 lumens and will likely be able to do that using two or three rechargeable AA's



i agree. but the saint sure looks sexy


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## nzbazza

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

These are my initial thoughts about the "Saint" HL from looking at the scan:


It isn't pretty!!!
It's going to be CR123 powered. I'm picking 2 cells.
I don't see any reflector or optic on the front, and the two knobs on either side of the front unit are cut back on an angle - this is going to be a flood headlamp ala Zebralight H30 I reckon.
It surprises me that Surefire haven't published this headlamp in their catalogue and it will be available soonish (end of Aug) while the UA2 and UB2 are in the catalogue but who knows when they will be ready.
The blurb suggests there will be "a line" of surefire headlamps
I wonder about how many levels/switching mechanisms.


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## LED-holic

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

wow, are we looking at the same light? :sick2:


dandruff said:


> i agree. but the saint sure looks sexy


would really love to make this my first SureFire... not so sure after the ad now.


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## McGizmo

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Yucca Patrol said:


> Typical of Surefire. . . . . they make a really fantastic body for an LED that is a lot dimmer than it should/could be. If I am going to waste my money buying CR123's for a headlamp, it had better put out something in the neighborhood of 200 Lumens on high. . . .
> 
> I guess we can hope that Hong Kong comes up with some drop-ins for the best American-made headlamp.
> 
> I'll hold out for the Fenix headlamp. . . .I'm sure it will approach 200 lumens and will likely be able to do that using two or three rechargeable AA's



No doubt! If those idiots at SureFire had half a brain they would check with Hong Kong on what should really be in their lights and then design them to easily accept the aftermarket drop in instead of some integrated design. That or SureFire should just toss in the towel and not even bother...

Sheesh!! A SureFire headlamp sounded interesting to me until this post set me straight! :thumbsup:


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## Rzr800

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



McGizmo said:


> "..Sheesh!! A SureFire headlamp sounded interesting to me until this post set me straight!" :thumbsup:


 
Probably a great business decision on their part though, as:

#1...the parts will be negligible and inexpensive with the price remaining just as high as ever...

and #2 (but most importantly)...how _easy_ will it be for both SF reps and the 'gotta have it' taxpayer funded employees that they call on to convince purchasing agents that a $150 or higher 'hands free' light is somehow (now) the greatest thing since sliced bread...and only bulletproof 'reliable' with the SF logo attached? (hey, you could bang your head against a rock just as likely as with your handheld).

The specs. of this light will indeed tell the story as to how serious this company is about bringing truly the latest and the greatest to those with lots of discretionary income (mainly ours) as a headlamp truly does narrow down the argument in terms of what is practical and what is not (as mcgizmo mentioned...either do the job right or don't even bother... as 'somebody' is out there footing the bill for the supposedly the finest to be had).


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## ElGreco

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



> Typical of Surefire. . . . . they make a really fantastic body for an LED that is a lot dimmer than it should/could be.



Just look at what Surefire has been doing with LEDs, a company like them can't and wont suceed if they concentrate on fighting lumens wars with other companies (since a cheapie DXP7 blows the surefire LEDs out of the water). In addition, the consumerbase is growing less and less interested in lumen figures unless they're rediculously high and more and more interested runtimes, UI, and usefulness.


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## McGizmo

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

What do we have so far to evaluate? A picture of the headlamp that doesn't show much detail and certainly doesn't represent what the headlamp does when on and in use and we have the spec of 100 lumens of output. 

Not much to go on at all but with this tiny bit of info and our personal biases in regards to SureFire we can make our cases and speculate like experts.  :welcome:


I don't use headlamps much but I have logged a number of days wearing them in attics and under houses doing some low voltage installations of LED wiring and fixtures and some plumbing repairs. The different headlamps all worked quite well for me and none of them came close to 100 lumens of output and the majority of the time I didn't use them on high.

Although I have never made a headlamp myself, I have spent a *lot* of time thinking about them and do hope to make something at least for myself when and if I get my ducks in a row. From a design standpoint, one of the first concerns I see is that of thermal relief. A headlamp presumably is a light that will be on for significant periods and it is a light that you want small and light weight and its ability to bleed off heat is restricted to convection and radiation unless you want to grease up your forehead and sync out the heat there (no thanks!! :green

I know nothing about this SF headlamp but considering the thermal situation and making guesses based on the picture, It wouldn't surprise me if the LED wasn't a P7 being driven an low and relative cool levels of power to get you the 100 lumens.

My first post was insincere and frankly BS based on BS. This post may be BS to many of you as well but it is at least sincere and I for one won't draw any conclusions on this headlamp without a lot more information and I wouldn't feel qualified to make any strong determination without actually experiencing the device in use, myself.


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## Daniel_sk

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Interesting. 
I can't tell much from the picture. The front is weird.. 
I might be interested, I hope it has ~3 output levels (low, medium for most work, high if you really need the output). I would prefer something like the Tikka XP - it has decent throw + a diffuser. 

I don't change batteries in my headlamp that often (I don't go hiking every day unfortunately ) so running the SF headlamp on primary CR123A shouldn't be an issue for me. I am running my Tikka XP on three alkalines - they last me a very long time.
Something lightweight but rugged, long running and reliable that's what I am looking for...

I can't wait for more info.


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## dandruff

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



LED-holic said:


> wow, are we looking at the same light? :sick2: would really love to make this my first SureFire... not so sure after the ad now.



well it is in a kind of utilitarian sort of way. too each his own


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## Yucca Patrol

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



McGizmo said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if the LED wasn't a P7 being driven an low and relative cool levels of power to get you the 100 lumens.



It would surprise the hell out of me if Surefire used a state-of-the-art emitter like the P7. They always seem to use cheaper and much older technology and call it "tried and true", and that is why we have to look to Hong Kong to upgrade our Surefire lights with the newest and brightest drop-ins.


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## Illum

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Yucca Patrol said:


> Typical of Surefire. . . . . they make a really fantastic body for an LED that is a lot dimmer than it should/could be. If I am going to waste my money buying CR123's for a headlamp, it had better put out something in the neighborhood of 200 Lumens on high. . . .


 
Whats your application? 200 lumens on high will wipe out everything down range, if theres a 200 lumen high I sure as @#$% hope theres a 10 lumen low somewhere in there:thinking:
I hope surefire makes a regulator that yields relatively equivalent performance compared to this
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/nuwai_hlx-712l.htm
5 hours of dead flat regulation followed by a MOON MODE of some sort


_Petzl threw out an "ultra"...that sounds more interesting to me actually._


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## McGizmo

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Yucca Patrol said:


> It would surprise the hell out of me if Surefire used a state-of-the-art emitter like the P7. They always seem to use cheaper and much older technology and call it "tried and true", and that is why we have to look to Hong Kong to upgrade our Surefire lights with the newest and brightest drop-ins.



You do realize that the P7 came into existence because of SureFire and at their request for such a LED to Seoul?!? In many examples, I have seen a SF prototype that didn't make it into production and available to consumers until well over a year of lapsed time. With lead times like this, how would you expect SureFire to have the latest and greatest a week after introduction? Your expression of "tried and true" has an element of time associated with it. This lapse of time may not sit well with many and I know I have found it quite frustrating myself on numerous occasions.

We have new LED's and new bin's coming out like clockwork these days. If a flashlight is named after a particular LED and even with the bin distinction included in its name, what would the expected life cycle in the market for such a light be? A couple months? Like it or not, some manufacturers work on a "tried and true" platform and expect a light design to be viable for years possibly. I can buy time dated food at the grocery store that has a longer shelf life than some of these quick to market and quick to be obsolete import flashlights! 

In a market beyond CPF and what's new today, what is the significance of a XR-E R2 designation for instance?

Your whole complaint is really based on time to market and time intended for marketability. SF may pay premium today for premium LED's which are old news by the time they show up in production lights. 

If you can see fit to accept this for the reality that it is, you might not need to weigh down a thread bringing to attention a new product from SureFire with bull poop that is not specific to the new product but a function of your disdain for how SureFire does business and conducts R&D in general.

Your wonder "drop ins" is a small portion of the market and relates to incandescent based lights which now can be host to LED modules. Where are the Hong Kong latest and greatest drop ins for the old technology SureFire U2, E1L, L1 and on and on?

I will wager that Hong Kong doesn't come up with any drop in for the headlamp that is topic of discussion in this thread. I say this because I doubt SF has designed the headlamp with ease of replacement of the LED as a design goal. I could be wrong but I doubt it. 

IMHO, a childish, impatient, unrealistic and ignorant attitude permeates some of the posts and comments in this thread and others when SF is the topic. The market has room for "tried and true" as well as hot off the line latest and potentially greatest. That the market is served by different manufacturers which may not in themselves embrace both, comes as no surprise to me.

You express upset at SF for being so slow and out of date. Are you also as upset at Hong Kong for not supplying these wonder drop ins with a host of the quality that you seem to look to SF for? The price would likely be better and then you could just ignore SF completely.


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## SilentK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

for those who are compaining about the lumen output, if you read the article hard enough it indicates that there will be a series af headlamps. so everyone here is taking thatg one lumen rating and saying that "oh it is so weak" i would bet that if it is true and there is a series, that there will be another one with a much higher output. in my opinion, they need to just make a headlamp that takes the p60 lamp.:twothumbs so they can include the p60L and let us take care of the rest. also include regulation that goes by volts. {6.0, 5.0, 3.0, 1.5, .5.} or something like that. it might not work but hey One more thing. i dont thing i have EVER seen a mass produced headlamp that has 100 lumen out of the front.


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## ltiu

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



SilentK said:


> One more thing. i dont thing i have EVER seen a mass produced headlamp that has 100 lumen out of the front.


 
The River Rock 6v (136 lumen rated at the bulb) may be close if not over 100 lumens out the front. I compared it against the FENIX L2D CE and the ceiling bounce test looks equal to my eye.

We need someone with a lux/lumen meter to verify though.


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## bigfoot

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Hmm... interesting. A SureFire headlamp. Maybe they have some other tricks up their sleeve this year. I know I'm not alone in wishing for a AA-powered light.


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## photonhoer

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



McGizmo said:


> What do we have so far to evaluate? A picture of the headlamp that doesn't show much detail and certainly doesn't represent what the headlamp does when on and in use and we have the spec of 100 lumens of output. Not much to go on at all but with this tiny bit of info and our personal biases in regards to SureFire we can make our cases and speculate like experts. ...I for one won't draw any conclusions on this headlamp without a lot more information and I wouldn't feel qualified to make any strong determination without actually experiencing the device in use, myself.



Thanks, Mac. I appreciate that someone with your respect and authority in the community has come out saying this. I felt it, about this specific SF post but also about many others, but honestly I shrank from saying it myself because I was sure I would have been drowned if I had said it.

The shear bandwidth consumed by speculation without data/experience is very disappointing. The S/N ratio suffers substantially. Can't we clean it up ourselves? It would greatly improve the quality of this excellent Forum.


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## Yucca Patrol

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Sorry to set you off, McGizmo. . . .

When it comes to headlamps, my needs are probably a bit more extreme than average because I use them for vertical caving. I often need a very bright light for many many hours underground and need to be prepared for an unexpected extended stay underground if something were to go wrong. An incredibly bright headlamp helps me to see the bottom of a 300+ foot pit while I am rappelling down the rope. 

Being able to use rechargeable AA batteries that can be used in multiple lights/devices is also very desirable for my purposes, and rechargeable CR-123's don't have the capacity or reliability I need for long run-times underground.

Like my other Surefire lights, I know this new headlamp will hold up to the very worst I can throw at it, and I will almost certainly buy this light when it comes out, but it still falls short in lumen output and battery type when I imagine my ideal headlamp.

Maybe I am childish, impatient, unrealistic, and ignorant, but I know what works for me underground in the caves. At this point in time, my ideal headlamp does not exist, so I make do with a modified PT Apex and a couple Fenix L2D's mounted to my helmet with bored out mini-Mag-lite helmet mounts (not all of them on at the same time most of the time). With this set-up, I achieve the light output I need, can use rechargeable AA's, and don't have to buy $20 worth of disposable lithium batteries every time I go underground.

You will be happy to know that I do keep a SF 6P LED in the bottom of my emergency kit. If all my plastic headlamps and cheap Chinese junk fail me, I'll die underground with a SF firmly clutched in my cold dead hand.


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## McGizmo

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Yucca Patrol,

Your posts did set me off and perhaps it would have been best had I been silent but if they were what brought out your most recent post then I am glad I made them. You obviously have a need for something that isn't available at present and I can understand your frustration that results. Your most recent post is very constructive in nature and if SureFire were by chance reading this thread, they might glean some valuable customer or potential customer feedback from reading it. What could they glean from your earlier posts? 

I know I am guilty of too many words in my posts but it takes some effort to try to get an idea or set of ideas across and I am not gifted with the ability to get the message across in a few choice words. On the other hand, many feel they have communicated the "essence" in one or two lines and I submit they have not.

Thank you for your response.


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## jayflash

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Gee, Giz, I understand your points and you are well qualified to make these judgments. Sometimes we "think aloud" while typing without fully thinking things through. YP is a relative newcomer, perhaps, without your depth of experience. Although things are cleared up now, maybe we could go a bit easier on the newbies in the future.

With the wide, even, flood, of my Zebra H30, I was a little surprised how quickly 80 lumens gets spread out and can understand the need for more in some cases. Granted, a spot will be needed to see at greater distances and even 200lu of flood won't do any good at 300'.

On the flip side of the balance sheet, often in these forums, there seems to be blind devotion to SF. SF is one of my faves, but nothing is perfect for everyone's needs. Giz, you probably understand better than most of us the infinite details and challenges required to produce a top quality and reliable product. Please continue to keep us in the loop. You are one of the CPF's great "professors" of lighting products.


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## McGizmo

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

jayflash,
Point well taken. I have tried to learn to deal with and address the post and not the poster. It's an artificial separation to my way of thinking but to keep in line on the forum, a needed one. By doing so, I didn't consider the background of the poster and I doubt I could glean much insight even if I did without seeking to read all of the other posts made by him? :thinking: :shrug:

However, to most of us who don't recognize or really know the background or qualifications of a particular poster, what we do have to assess is the content and message in the post. We have an incredible diversity in all aspects on CPF from the background and experiences of the members to the full range of products available and discussed. We also have more BS than ever, IMHO and I am not sure there is a nice or friendly way to call BS out.

Yucca Patrol may be a relative newbie to CPF but I gather from his posts here in this thread that he is not a newbie to the use and needs of his flashlights! I feel he was more than qualified to make the comments he made and I perceive now that a real frustration with lack of what he needs prompted him to take a shot at SF which on the face of it seemed ill founded and simply not true. 

My first post was completely tongue in cheek but seemed a reasonable band wagon joining in response to the quoted post of Yucca Patrol.

The safe and easy path is to simply ignore stuff on CPF that rings false yet is offered up as _word_. I know I ignore a lot these days and no doubt when I finally elect to post, it is with a vengeance. However it is the post I attempt to attack because I don't know the poster from Adam nor do I know what their motives or reasons may be in making the post.


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## jayflash

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Thanks for your reply McG and your points are, or course, valid. Yes, I suppose it's better for everyone's knowledge to quickly dispel the baloney.

Congratulations on your 15.5k posts! Wow. Again, we appreciate the time you've taken for our benefit.


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## SureAddicted

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Maybe we should hold off on judging something that isn't even out, SF does have a habit of changing specs at the last minute. 

Yucca Patrol, on the same advertisement as the saint headlamp, they mention the Petzl Ultra which has 350 lumens of output...maybe thats a better choice for you.

Steve


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## stitch_paradox

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

This would be an awesome heallamp if it could take P60 drop ins.


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## WDR65

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'm very interested to see this one. I've been waiting on a replacement for my Apex and this might be it.


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## bezel

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



stitch_paradox said:


> This would be an awesome heallamp if it could take P60 drop ins.


 
Agree.

I have also thought that in keeping with Surefire's overall theme of interchangeability, a headlamp host that would accept all SF E-series heads would be nice.
It could look a lot like the one pictured with the rotating base for beam direction adjustment and rear battery compartment.
But, instead of a built-in light engine - just screw on any E-series head.


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## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I've been on 'vacation' to climb Ben Nevis and enjoying a week in the wild land of the Scots.

What I find really interesting is where the news of the 'Saint' broke first...


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## greenLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



stitch_paradox said:


> This would be an awesome heallamp if it could take P60 drop ins.


Doesn't look like it from the picture.

Isn't it fun to speculate like this based only on a tiny pic?


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## Burgess

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Hurray -- Al has returned ! :thumbsup:


One question for Al, if i may . . . .


How long have you " known of / heard of " the Saint headlamp ?


Was this something *very recent* ?

Or has it been in development for *months and months and months* ?


Just *curious* about how quickly these projects progress.


And, of course, we can understand if you are unable to discuss such matters.


Thank you for your insight.


_


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## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Burgess said:


> One question for Al, if i may . . . .
> How long have you " known of / heard of " the Saint headlamp?
> ...Just *curious* about how quickly these projects progress.


Whilst I'm not going to answer your question directly (sorry)...
I will echo Don's comments about SureFire lead times:


McGizmo said:


> You do realize that the P7 came into existence because of SureFire and at their request for such a LED to Seoul?!? In many examples, I have seen a SF prototype that didn't make it into production and available to consumers until well over a year of lapsed time. With lead times like this...


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## Cydonia

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Interesting development and a much hoped for and anticipated product from SureFire. Just how long we will truly have to wait for it is the question...


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## Patriot

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



:)> said:


> Now we're talking!




You took my words! ..... lol


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## matt_j

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I read the Outside article and was sort of surprised that this headlamp never made it to the SHOT show. I also didn't find it listed anywhere, even on SF website especialy after magazine release that deals with "now/very soon" and not "later" equipment.I have my money down on UA2 and hopefully I don't retire by the time it comes out. 

But from the looks of it that headlamp is perfect. It has a decent output and if I can judge by quality of SF products it will hold out to the worst. Plus article said that there will be a line of healdlamps so one can only assume brighter output as the time goes on. Like everyone I'm frustrated with SF production/release times but that's a blessing/curse of the internet. The price to know what's on the drawing board now, is a longer wait for an actual product, therefore more time for us to bad mouth the item before it even hits the production line. Also you can't please everyone with the product specs. There always going to be somebody who will have a special need for a specific function because of their job/hobby. If you put the brightest, smallest, sturdiest headlamp out there and priced it accordingly it will most likely not sell due to cost. In order to make it affordable you need to mass produce it but intial cost will scare the buyers. Yes few of the hardcore users would buy it but that's about it. Not everyone can afford or realizes a need for multiple lights. Only few choose the best light for the job and are willing to pay for it. I admit I would love to have a headlamp that is: 200 lumen, water proof to 200 feet, shapable beam with battery indicator and brightens control, crush proof, small, comfortable and priced around a $100. Well it is not going to happen. That's why I have few headlamps: Pelican for diving, zipka for work, xp for play and e+ for backup. WIll I buy SF headlamp? Of course. Will it be my only one and only light? Hell no. 


Awesome name for a lamp too


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## SilentK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



matt_j said:


> I read the Outside article and was sort of surprised that this headlamp never made it to the SHOT show. I also didn't find it listed anywhere, even on SF website especialy after magazine release that deals with "now/very soon" and not "later" equipment.I have my money down on UA2 and hopefully I don't retire by the time it comes out.
> 
> But from the looks of it that headlamp is perfect. It has a decent output and if I can judge by quality of SF products it will hold out to the worst. Plus article said that there will be a line of healdlamps so one can only assume brighter output as the time goes on. Like everyone I'm frustrated with SF production/release times but that's a blessing/curse of the internet. The price to know what's on the drawing board now, is a longer wait for an actual product, therefore more time for us to bad mouth the item before it even hits the production line. Also you can't please everyone with the product specs. There always going to be somebody who will have a special need for a specific function because of their job/hobby. If you put the brightest, smallest, sturdiest headlamp out there and priced it accordingly it will most likely not sell due to cost. In order to make it affordable you need to mass produce it but intial cost will scare the buyers. Yes few of the hardcore users would buy it but that's about it. Not everyone can afford or realizes a need for multiple lights. Only few choose the best light for the job and are willing to pay for it. I admit I would love to have a headlamp that is: 200 lumen, water proof to 200 feet, shapable beam with battery indicator and brightens control, crush proof, small, comfortable and priced around a $100. Well it is not going to happen. That's why I have few headlamps: Pelican for diving, zipka for work, xp for play and e+ for backup. WIll I buy SF headlamp? Of course. Will it be my only one and only light? Hell no.
> 
> 
> Awesome name for a lamp too



I could not have said it better myself. We do need to stop saying bad things about a product untill we have held it in our hands. We are saying bad things on this product just because it said 100 lumens and we have a very small photo. If you ever actually compared the surefire catolog to their site, you can make one conclution about their new products. That thing is that surefire tends to, if they can, improve their products beyond what they said they would. So that leds me myself to belive, that surefire does not give us actual specifications, rather than the minimum that we will see with this product. Like the surefire E2DL, if surefire stated that it would be two stage, yet for some reason {i dont know why} that they could not deliver two stages, but only one, we would all be disapointed and look at surefire differently. Besides all of us here like to collect flashlights, so we are all acting like this is the only headlamp we will ever own.  As said above this light will have a place in our _collection_. Besides we all know there is going to be atleast one more so, lets just wait.


----------



## bezel

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I agree that from the photo this headlamp looks very good.
My personal use of headlamps has been almost 100% hands-free task (area) lighting with little need for throw or crazy lumens. I need runtime.
For me 100 lumens seems perfect for the high level.
I want it simple and reliable - 2 level UI - forward clicky - 15 lumens low and 100 high.
If I had the need for hands-free spotting - then I'd want a 200 to 400 lumen high with monster throw.


----------



## xcel730

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Very interesting headlamp. I would love to see it in person when it comes out.

I googled the Petzl Ultra as well. At $425, it's a big step up from their existing line.


----------



## rtt

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Any new news?


----------



## CRC123

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

:twothumbsA rep at SureFire said it's coming this fall, maybe late Sept! Wasn't in the catalog because it wasn't a greenlight by last November/December when SureFire has to go to print. I'll bet it's in Utah for the Outdoor Retailer show next month.


----------



## RyanA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



bigfoot said:


> Hmm... interesting. A SureFire headlamp. Maybe they have some other tricks up their sleeve this year. I know I'm not alone in wishing for a AA-powered light.



Not at all. Someone should put together a video with the Saint Crispin's day speech from the Henry V (and the PS3 ads), and a whole barrage of pictures of Surefire lights and Enegizer AA batteries, maybe the bunny for kicks. Send that into SF, it will be so moving they won't be able to resist us (who will be known as "The Movement" from this time forward) Perhaps the video will even be adopted as their own add campaign for the light.

So, who's up for it? This plan cannot fail.


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



RyanA said:


> Not at all. Someone should put together a video with the Saint Crispin's day speech from the Henry V (and the PS3 ads), and a whole barrage of pictures of Surefire lights and Enegizer AA batteries, maybe the bunny for kicks. Send that into SF, it will be so moving they won't be able to resist us (who will be known as "The Movement" from this time forward) Perhaps the video will even be adopted as their own add campaign for the light.
> 
> So, who's up for it? This plan cannot fail.



I second this motion! Sign me up for The Movement...

Though this name kind of reminds me of an event that happened the day after Thanksgiving this one time.


----------



## Patriot

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



CRC123 said:


> :twothumbsA rep at SureFire said it's coming this fall, maybe late Sept! Wasn't in the catalog because it wasn't a greenlight by last November/December when SureFire has to go to print. I'll bet it's in Utah for the Outdoor Retailer show next month.




Is that what a Surefire customer service rep. stated over the phone to you?


----------



## curlyfry562

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It just popped up on BJ with a typo, it got me very excited at first. 

http://www.batteryjunction.com/surefire-saint.html

Never saw this one coming.


----------



## stitch_paradox

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Nice... but it would be nicer if it could take P60! Would someone make a headlamp like that!


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

stitch_paradox,

I will when I get another "Beater" 6P to cut up and weld. It's been on my to-do list for a while now.

Still excited to see what SF has planned for this


----------



## ElGreco

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Erm, so where exactly is the emitter on this? No reflector, ok I got that part, but where/what is the emitter? Im really interested in SF's approach here.


----------



## BlueGerbil

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I´ll buy one as soon as it´s available. I´ve been looking for a sturdy CR123-powered headlamp for geocaching.


----------



## GreySave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Yup. Of course. I just ordered a Zebralight yesterday. But then I really wanted the flood factor and it will probably be another 8 months before this hits the streets anyway......I'll just keep telling myself that.......


----------



## fleegs

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

How awesome would this be if it had the Titan interface. With the low low of the Titan and now the high of 100 lumens! 

I have been waiting for a headlamp with the same quality as my lights. I believe I am still on the list for the HDS headlamp. 

I am glad I saw this today. I was going to make some other purchases but will now wait. :candle:


Rob


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

they show it on www.batteryjunction.com


----------



## hopkins

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

If the front part is all aluminum that could add some oz's.
The tilt looks like a Zebra light clone unless its metal too.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



276 said:


> they show it on www.batteryjunction.com


I guess this thread is so long that reading it to see whether this information has already been posted was just too much of an effort. Guess what curlyfry562's link was more detailed than yours too. 



hopkins said:


> If the front part is all aluminum that could add some oz's.
> The tilt looks like a Zebra light clone unless its metal too.


SureFire have been working on their headlamp for what seems like years now. It's been one of those products they've just not found the time to release yet.

I hope that further details of it can be shared so that it can be compared and contrasted based on actual details rather than speculation.


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'm sold...just gotta clear it through the wife...or wait for my share of the tax return!!! It could very well be the last headlamp I buy...unless of SF comes out with a new one...they may already have a couple in the line-up???


----------



## SilentK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

i think i will wait a bit seeing as there is going to be a line of these things. but it is still nice to see that it only cost $150


----------



## yaesumofo

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

WE? Who is this WE?
I don't look to Hong Kong for anything related to any of my surefire flashlights.
If I need an "Upgrade" I do everything I can to find what I am looking for right here. The "drop in upgrades" I am using are made by gene Malkoff. Not some nameless worker in Hong Kong. Remember you speak for yourself and do not represent anybody but yourself in posting here on the CPF. I only speak for myself of course others may choose to have you speak for them. Personally I do not offer this service.

I think this is normal for the CPF especially among those who haven't really be around long. 
Surefire has infact been around a long time making products which tend to be among the best in class.

The surefire Headlamp will likely be a very high quality unit. remember where some companies rate their output based upon emitter output numbers which are often very wrong Surefire rates their output accurately and usually very conservativly.
As Don mentioned when he has used his head lamp it is often not on it's highest level. This is almost always true if there are other people around since the possibility of shining others in the eyes with 100 Lumens is very great.
100 lumens in a spot with good side spill would represent a very good amount of light from a head light.
It seems to me that it might be best to take a wait and see posture when it comes to this new offering from Surefire since without first hand experience everything is either BS or conjecture.
Yaesumofo




Yucca Patrol said:


> It would surprise the hell out of me if Surefire used a state-of-the-art emitter like the P7. They always seem to use cheaper and much older technology and call it "tried and true", and that is why we have to look to Hong Kong to upgrade our Surefire lights with the newest and brightest drop-ins.


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> I guess this thread is so long that reading it to see whether this information has already been posted was just too much of an effort. Guess what curlyfry562's link was more detailed than yours too.
> 
> 
> SureFire have been working on their headlamp for what seems like years now. It's been one of those products they've just not found the time to release yet.
> 
> I hope that further details of it can be shared so that it can be compared and contrasted based on actual details rather than speculation.



Yeah... sometimes when i read the threads i am about to go to sleep so my head is not always there, in fact i have fallen asleep while sitting up right at my computer


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Pricing and order codes were released today. 

"EXPECTED" to start shipping OCTOBER.

LINK: _removed_


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Word on the street is that the Saint will take either CR123 or AA batteries (http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/).

Pictures:

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/saint1.jpg

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/saint.jpg

I'm really curious about that optic!


----------



## mega_lumens

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

^^ Thanks for the links. I'm so curious to learn more about Saint. From the pics it looks like a TIR optic; just imagine if it pumps out 100 lumens and throws like a E2DL. Did I understand that it might take both CR123 AND AAs or there will be 2 different models? Imagine if a single model can take both. WOW


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

If it can take AA's then I thin we have a winner. Not quite my ideal lamp yet, but getting closer. I wonder if they are using a focusing optic/ aspheric so that it gives a Zebralight-like flood or can be focused down.

I'm getting more interested... now unfortunately I'm going to go check the bad news; SF always hurts.


----------



## solsys

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I am the editor of Soldier Systems Blog. I will have a full article on the Saint this week. Its amazing how quickly Battery Junction stole my copyrighted pictures to sell the Saint.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



solsys said:


> I am the editor of Soldier Systems Blog. I will have a full article on the Saint this week. Its amazing how quickly Battery Junction stole my copyrighted pictures to sell the Saint.


Solsys,
Please do not use open forum here on CPF as the means of resolving issues you may have with a business.
The first impression you create by such a first post here does not show you in a good light regardless of whether your issue is founded or not. 
There are far more mature and likely effective methods for communicating with a business than a discussion forum.

Perhaps you would like to share your opinions of SureFire's headlamp here on CPF and contribute constructively to our hobby community?


----------



## solsys

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Oh I know it won't resolve the issue. I was just making a comment on how quickly it happened. I was just writing my impression on that. If you want to know my impressions on the headlamp, I will publish them later in the week.


----------



## greenLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



solsys said:


> I am the editor of Soldier Systems Blog. I will have a full article on the Saint this week.


:welcome:
Looking forward to your review!


----------



## solsys

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

One thing I will say, is that they designed the harness for long term wear. It is highly adjustable and was comfortable for the few minutes that I wore it..


----------



## hp84117

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I handled a pre-production version of the headlamp on Monday at the OutdoorRetailer show. There were some features that were particularly interesting:

-The battery box has contacts on all four sides so you can use either three cr123's or in the other direction a pair of AA's
-The user interface is a rotary knob on the end of the emitter barrel (not the side with the wire). You rotate to turn it on and then keep turning until it gets to full brightness. It has a detent at 10 lumens, but below and above that is a smooth increase or decrease.
-The emitter barrel rotates 360 degrees so you can point it where you want or turn it backwards to protect the lense.
-The lens is what I would call a small aspheric with some rings on the back, a little like a fresnel lens. The beam is smooth with no hotspot and reminds me of what a mag aspheric would look like if you crank the head all the way down to get the even flood. I think the emitter is a cree but did not confirm that with the rep.

My impression is that the engineers put some real thought into this one. The rep also told me that this would likely be their midrange model in a series of headlamps.


----------



## matt0

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*


----------



## GreySave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Comfortable? At the price I saw quoted it ought to include a small cooling system to keep the ole noggin comfortable in warm weather 

I like SureFire products because I believe in their build quality, but being a casual user there's no way I could justify $185 a copy for a headlamp. I'd be in divorce court for sure. Now if it was day to day mission critical or I wore one all day long and it is that comfortable.........

It should be interesting to see where in the marketplace the low and high end lights fall.


----------



## DM51

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



hp84117 said:


> You rotate to turn it on and then keep turning until it gets to full brightness. It has a detent at 10 lumens, but below and above that is a smooth increase or decrease.


Same principle as the Titan, by the sound of it. It sounds a very versatile light.


----------



## greenLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



hp84117 said:


> -The battery box has contacts on all four sides so you can use either three cr123's or in the other direction a pair of AA's...


Blasphemy! SF making lights that run off AA batts? :nana:
(COOL!! built-in battery compatibility)



hp84117 said:


> The rep also told me that this would likely be their *midrange model in a series of headlamps.*


Somebody pass the bucket'o


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

For me a headlamp is critical gear. I have busted a few in the field. You would be surprised at what can what can break at 20 below zero after a good fall. It is expensive but just what is my life worth? Still I would hold off until Christmas or maybe a Birthday to justify the cost. If it can use 2xAA plus CR123 I would be in. If it can’t use 2xAA I would forgo the Saint. Kinda nice to see SF finally acknowledges these new LEDs can be powered by AA batteries and still put out a great deal of light. My Fenix L2D Q5 is proof of this. I wonder what the output/regulated runtimes for AA lithiums and NiMH LSD batteries would be.

Anyone know what LED SF is going to use for the Saint?


----------



## solsys

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I was at SHOT representing a Govt contract and was "offered" the Saint as a possible solution to our light requirements. Since it wasn't available I passed but I think they are going after the Petzl market.


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I look forward to your impressions solsys. 2AA or 3 CR123 sounds great!
Adjustable brightness, good, sounds like a nice floody headlamp, which is mostly good. Guess I still have to dream about a headlamp that can throw or flood though. The price isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but still a big barrier to this product from being available to many potential users. But by the sounds of "midrange" hopefully there will be a more accessable model available.


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



hp84117 said:


> It has a detent at 10 lumens, but below and above that is a smooth increase or decrease.



Right on!

Honestly... I can't think of another light that I've been this excited about.


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



PhantomPhoton said:


> I look forward to your impressions solsys. 2AA or 3 CR123 sounds great!
> Adjustable brightness, good, sounds like a nice floody headlamp, which is mostly good. Guess I still have to dream about a headlamp that can throw or flood though. The price isn't as bad as I thought it would be, but still a big barrier to this product from being available to many potential users. But by the sounds of "midrange" hopefully there will be a more accessable model available.


 

The only headlamp I have owned that could throw or flood is my Apex.


----------



## P220C

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



ElGreco said:


> Just look at what Surefire has been doing with LEDs, a company like them can't and wont suceed if they concentrate on fighting lumens wars with other companies (since a cheapie DXP7 blows the surefire LEDs out of the water). In addition, the consumerbase is growing less and less interested in lumen figures unless they're rediculously high and more and more interested runtimes, UI, and usefulness.


 
Yup. There is a point at which enough light is enough light. Longer runtimes and durability are where it's at for me right now. 

I want it to work, and if it doesn't work I don't want to have to pay to fix it. Surefire is good for me on both counts.


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Vastly improved pics and details are now available: http://www.batteryjunction.com/surefire-saint.html


----------



## bullfrog

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

WOW - Surefire seems to have thought of everything here!

Absolutely love the fact that you can run it with one, two or three 123A cells - I can't even begin to think of how important this feature would be in the field - not to mention that it takes AAs. 

I'm just a noob but this seems like a milestone in production lights...


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

That "Dual-Fuel" battery set-up is sweet!
What a great way to pull that off!

I'd still like to know more details...

Looking forward to some reviews.


----------



## MSI

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I guess the CR123 batteries are in parallel, so it is using a boost circuit.
I want one!


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Wow, looking better and better. I may have to make an exception on the not buying SF products at MSRP here. This actually appears to be worth the price. 

Wish it had better submersion rating though. :mecry:


----------



## MSI

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Some more info on the Saint.


----------



## jzmtl

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

A SF that can use AA? Well the mayans got it all wrong, the worlds is coming to an end now.


----------



## tricker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*




jzmtl said:


> A SF that can use AA? Well the mayans got it all wrong, the worlds is coming to an end now.



my sentimens exactly


----------



## Jaygnar

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

$185 seems overpriced to me. :thumbsdow
We'll see what happens when people start using them but I don't ever see myself spending that much for a headlamp. The only exception would be for caving which is extremely specialized work and there are better offerings than the Saint that are more suited to that purpose.


----------



## rtt

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It appears to me that the Saint would be able to use many variations of rechargable batteries.


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Looks like one of the best headlamps for caving that I've seen yet. Only thing I don't like is that the funky recessed optic thingy looks like it'll trap lots of mud. I wonder how scratch-proof that exposed optic is? I hope it's made of glass!


----------



## mega_lumens

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Has anyone notice the 6 hour runtime on max, that's insane. The future looks bright.


----------



## CM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Yucca Patrol said:


> Typical of Surefire. . . . . they make a really fantastic body for an LED that is a lot dimmer than it should/could be. If I am going to waste my money buying CR123's for a headlamp, it had better put out something in the neighborhood of 200 Lumens on high. . . .
> 
> I guess we can hope that Hong Kong comes up with some drop-ins for the best American-made headlamp.
> 
> I'll hold out for the Fenix headlamp. . . .I'm sure it will approach 200 lumens and will likely be able to do that using two or three rechargeable AA's



One answer to this if you like Surefires like I do. Just mod the circuit.


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



mega_lumens said:


> Has anyone notice the 6 hour runtime on max, that's insane.



Yeah, I almost commented on it... 

But I don't want to get my hopes up until I hear that that's 6 hours before dropping out of regulation - not 6 hours total runtime.


----------



## adirondackdestroyer

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Unreal! Looks so much better than I expected. I have to say though that $185 seems a bit high. This would be the most expensive single LED headlamp ever I think Around $100-125 seems much more reasonable, but what can you do. 
I can't wait for the reviews to see if it runs 6 hours of regulation on high, or 6 hours before it turns off.


----------



## matt0

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



vtunderground said:


> Yeah, I almost commented on it...
> 
> But I don't want to get my hopes up until I hear that that's 6 hours before dropping out of regulation - not 6 hours total runtime.



If a KX2 can get 60 lumens for 6 hours with 2 CR123's, I think 100 lumens for 6 hours with 3 CR123's is fairly accurate.


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

3v * 1500 mAh = 4.5Wh per cell (under ideal circumstances)
3 cells is 13.5Wh
Assume 90 Lumens per watt in the LED
that gives us 12 hours at 100 lumens potential.
Factor in a boost circuit at 85% efficiency = ~10hours
Factor in optical losses and increased current draw on the cells as their voltage drops; we're still safely in the 8 hour range.
I'd say 6 hours on high is a very low estimate of the potential runtime here if my math is in the ballpark.

*The big question is the quality of the driver. Is it going to be the same P60L garbage where the light isn't well regulated, so its only bright at the beginning then has a nasty curve trailing off for several hours. Or will regulation keep it at a constant 100 lumens for 6 hours before it drops out.*
 
I do agree that the 100 lumen maximum is a bit disappointing. I'd have been happy with 150 lumens. (remember this is real out the front lumens)

Sounds like they're using the same circuit and setup as they are in the Aluminum Titan... whatever its called. That's why we're stuck with the 100 lumen limit.


----------



## cue003

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Nice. Should be interesting to see/read the comments from members when it is finally available. Someone mentioned that this is the "middle" model. I am going to hold out for the top of the line model.


----------



## Daniel_sk

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Looks interesting. I might be buying one, after I see some reviews.
I do hope the top head band is removable...


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Daniel_sk said:


> Looks interesting. I might be buying one, after I see some reviews.
> I do hope the top head band is removable...



I agree about the waiting for a review. According to what I've read the top headband is removable!


----------



## Mercaptan

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



PhantomPhoton said:


> I agree about the waiting for a review. According to what I've read the top headband is removable!



Well, it will be removable. You just need the special tool.







Weight: 4.2 Oz, without batteries
Quality: Titanium cutting surfaces, diamond coated
Handles: Nitrolon
Cost: MSRP $49.99

Available this December.


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Mercaptan said:


> Well, it will be removable. You just need the special tool.
> 
> 
> Weight: 4.2 Oz, without batteries
> Quality: Titanium cutting surfaces, diamond coated
> Handles: Nitrolon
> Cost: MSRP $49.99
> 
> Available this December.



 Yea it absolutely wouldn't surprise me if they tried to sell it for that much too!


> The top strap is removable, snapping easily in or out as needed.


-from equipped.com that was linked above by MSI


----------



## MSI

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

More


----------



## phypaa

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

WooooW!!!


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

where did u get that!!


----------



## MSI

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

OpticsHQ posted them over in market place.


----------



## phypaa

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Is there any information saying the light is regulated or not?


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



phypaa said:


> Is there any information saying the light is regulated or not?


 


For that kinda money it better be:green:

I really wish SF would just keep stuff under wraps until the products they intend to release are closer to being ready for sale. Of coarse I want the best possible product, but all the "Hype" and waiting and pushbacks are getting a little annoying.

It was nice when the E1B was released as it just kinda appeared out of nowhere, but some of the other lights seem to be on a "released _SOMEDAY_" type of schedule.

I am by no means Surefire bashing (I own well over 50) but I wish the release of information would be closer to realease of the lights for sale.

The wait is driving me nuts!!!

This does look like a cool product and I hope it is released sooner than later. I am glad SF finally decided to try something different and fill some niches that have had a void.


----------



## dougie

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Its a shame that Surefire can't make an attachment to allow some of their existing lights to be used on various types of helmet. I'm sure that technically its not that difficult and would allow the E series (both 1 & 2 cell varieties) and others to be adapted for Firefighters, EMT's etc. 

Although the Saint looks like it can be mounted on a lot of helmets without difficulty many helmets have over the top visors which preclude both the Saint and other manufacturers helmet lights from being used!:shrug:


----------



## bezel

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



phypaa said:


> Is there any information saying the light is regulated or not?


 
I don't recall seeing anything on regulation or looking too hard either. I don't think Surefire has any recent production LED models that are unregulated - so I am comfortable assuming at this point that it will be regulated. the question is, how well?

by knowing it can run off two alkalines or 1, 2, or 3 123A primary lithiums - it probably runs the alkalines in seires and the lithiums in parallel. there is therefore not enough voltage to "buck", so it is probably equiped with just a boost regulator.

hopefully the regulation is very good so that performance on alkalines won't suck.


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dougie said:


> Its a shame that Surefire can't make an attachment to allow some of their existing lights to be used on various types of helmet. I'm sure that technically its not that difficult and would allow the E series (both 1 & 2 cell varieties) and others to be adapted for Firefighters, EMT's etc.



There are a few 'aftermarket' solutions that can accomodate a range of lights.


----------



## jzmtl

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



bezel said:


> hopefully the regulation is very good so that performance on alkalines won't suck.



Probably will if you run it on higher level, alkaline simply can't produce high current so the regulator ca't do much about it.


----------



## P220C

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dougie said:


> Its a shame that Surefire can't make an attachment to allow some of their existing lights to be used on various types of helmet.


 






+





=

Answer to your question. 

I'm not sure exactly what it would look like, but I'm guessing it would work just fine. 

The little polymer piece of Picatinny rail will runs you $6.95 from EZleta and the Vltor mount is one of the better ones available and it retails for around $34.95.

Just a thought.

ETA: I can't spell.

Those mounts are available in three different sizes to accomodate E, G and C series SFs.

The only downside I can think of of the top of my head (pun intended) is that it wouldn't be adjustable. You would probably want to buy a bunch of double sided tape to test it out with and then go ahead and secure it properly. Also would want to consider some flush mount or maybe pan head screws if you are caving to avoid a hard bump inside the helmet in the event you actually use the helmet for someting other than a light holder.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



P220C said:


> Answer to your question.
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what it would look like, but I'm guessing it would work just fine.
> 
> The little polymer piece of Picatinny rail will runs you $6.95 from EZleta and the Vltor mount is one of the better ones available and it retails for around $34.95.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> ETA: I can't spell.
> 
> Those mounts are available in three different sizes to accomodate E, G and C series SFs.
> 
> The only downside I can think of of the top of my head (pun intended) is that it wouldn't be adjustable. You would probably want to buy a bunch of double sided tape to test it out with and then go ahead and secure it properly. Also would want to consider some flush mount or maybe pan head screws if you are caving to avoid a hard bump inside the helmet in the event you actually use the helmet for someting other than a light holder.


 



:welcome: and a good suggestion.

I sold my modded X200 to a friend who mounted some rail on his motorcycle helmet and uses only that for night trail riding. He says it works great. I have a piece of rail mounted to my mountian bike which allows me some options for night riding of my own. 
...just wanted to share my experiance with this idea. 

OK, back to the topic at hand:wave:


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



bezel said:


> I don't recall seeing anything on regulation or looking too hard either. I don't think Surefire has any recent production LED models that are unregulated - so I am comfortable assuming at this point that it will be regulated. the question is, how well?



Depends on the definition of regulated I guess. The P60L dropin is what, personally, I'd consider unregulated. I like to see flat output for the majority of the total runtime.


----------



## solsys

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Apprently SF corporate has been putting pressure on the sales force to make some sales on these. Of course everyone is blanching at the price tag plus delivery is so far out that they are getting nowhere.


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



solsys said:


> Apprently SF corporate has been putting pressure on the sales force to make some sales on these. Of course everyone is blanching at the price tag plus delivery is so far out that they are getting nowhere.



Well considering that this is almost in the price range of Petzl's new monster headlamp it is a tough sell to the outdoors crowd imo. And I don't trust SF's estimated delivery times. The big seller for me will be reviews... proper regulation, true durability, beamshots.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



PhantomPhoton said:


> Well considering that this is almost in the price range of Petzl's new monster headlamp it is a tough sell to the outdoors crowd imo. And I don't trust SF's estimated delivery times. The big seller for me will be reviews... proper regulation, true durability, beamshots.


The headlamp crowd in the price range SureFire is aiming at are those who care about the gear they invest in and tend to ensure they research it and take seriously the opinions and word-of-mouth from people they respect and know go through similar outdoor experiences.

IMHO it is vital that SureFire get their Saints onto the heads of the right people in the market sector to really establish how they perform.
Show us some Saints being used for expeditions - show us what they look like after 3 months trekking through rainforest, or a trip to a Pole or the Alps.

I would not buy a Saint expecting it to perform - at this early stage I'd realise I was one of the ones taking the chance and helping to establish the baseline impression for SureFire headlamps. I suspect it'll take a year or so for the Saint to prove itself before they really start getting orders. This doesn't even take into account they are entering a market with some well-established players.

Of course I'm hoping that SureFire will have got it right with their Saint. Time will tell.


----------



## nzbazza

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> I would not buy a Saint expecting it to perform...



Surely given Surefire's reputation you would expect the Saint to take the abuse and perform under all sorts of conditions!!!!


----------



## festiva91

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It is cheaper than the Petzl Ultra but not near as powerful.


----------



## greenLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



nzbazza said:


> Surely given Surefire's reputation you would expect the Saint to take the abuse and perform under all sorts of conditions!!!!


I think Al's point was that we tent to get carried away with unreasonable expectations when an exciting new product comes to light.

Some people end up wanting the kitchen sink and are disappointed when the light doesn't deliver that.

Of course there's a certain level of performance expectation from a SF product, but I'd be careful to not get odd expectations ingrained into my head even before the light's out for sale.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



nzbazza said:


> Surely given Surefire's reputation you would expect the Saint to take the abuse and perform under all sorts of conditions!!!!


When it's something as important as a headlamp that I may need to help me and others survive in potentially life-threatening situations and environments there's no way I would take the marketing word of a product manufacturer over my own hands-on experience. I would even only use the words and experiences of others (who have/are putting the product to use in similar conditions) to help me build confidence and knowledge of the product.

The same goes for everything I use as tools - I prefer to explore performance in a variety of training/practice/lower-risk applications before I have the confidence to rely on them for 'real'.

I have confidence SureFire are capable of making their Saint fit for purpose but that needs to be backed up by my own evaluations.

There are plenty of my uses of flashlights that are for fun - play - messing around. My use of flashlights and headlamps whilst camping and hiking are a whole different matter - one I take extremely seriously. The places (usually National Parks) that I hike kill and seriously injure people who are not sufficiently prepared and that includes having the wrong gear and/or gear they are not experienced with. It's not worth cutting corners. It doesn't mean always buying the most expensive gear (or always buying SureFire) but it does mean prior preparation as this prevents **** poor performance.

The Saint is untested as far as we know, and untested by myself. It's fitness for purpose should not be expected. It's safer to assume it isn't and seek to find out rather than gamble that it is and find out to our cost that it isn't (IMHO)


----------



## dandruff

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

hey guys i hope this is not a repost but i found a nice writeup and good pictures here:

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=88

check it out!


----------



## Tempest UK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> The Saint is untested as far as we know, and untested by myself. It's fitness for purpose should not be expected. It's safer to assume it isn't and seek to find out rather than gamble that it is and find out to our cost that it isn't (IMHO)



Quite. I'm sure many people (myself included, to an extent) who have had a fair bit of experience with using SureFires and appreciate them for reliability and performance will assume that the Saint will follow suit. However, it's worth keeping in mind that this is new territory for SureFire, so all bets are off until we know how it performs.

Really the only thing left, then, is whether you will choose to be one of the early adopters who provides important early impressions, or one of those who buys based on those impressions. Or not buy one at all...I suppose 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Tempest UK said:


> ...it's worth keeping in mind that this is new territory for SureFire, so all bets are off until we know how it performs.
> 
> Really the only thing left, then, is whether you will choose to be one of the early adopters who provides important early impressions, or one of those who buys based on those impressions. Or not buy one at all...I suppose
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


That's what flashaholics live for right? I mean if we're not the ones to be the first to invest in the next new flashlight then who is?

I've been wanting a SureFire headlamp for a long time. I will certainly be getting one.


----------



## E__WOK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



festiva91 said:


> It is cheaper than the Petzl Ultra but not near as powerful.



does the petzl take anythi other than AAs?


----------



## Yucca Patrol

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



E__WOK said:


> does the petzl take anythi other than AAs?



Yes, it only takes their proprietary lithium battery packs. :thumbsdow


----------



## P220C

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I originally didn't think I was in the market for a surefire headlamp. I was quite content with my Apex Pro. 

The case has cracked yet again. PT repaired the first one, and I am hopeful they will do so again. 

The first one had spiderweb looking cracks all over it after about a years worth of use. 

This time around, only about a month or so. 

I don't feel that I am particulaly hard on them, but I tend to use them for working on the cars, digging holes and working in the attic. Probabnly use is every few days for something, and don't recall dropping it. 

So knowing Surefires reputation for stuff holding together for me, I am probably going end up with one of these (I won't be an early adapter though). I need a headlamp that will take modest knocking around and not break. 

The side benefit is that if I dedicate the surefir to hard use, and can be sure that the PT won't be beat up, I will probably do the P4 mod wtih a 20mm reflector.


----------



## greenLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I may have missed this, but I found a review and good pics at Doug Ritter's site:
http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=88

and better pics:
http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic2037.htm


----------



## Illum

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

wow wee....

2AAs, 1, 2, or 3 cr123As I don't think it could get more flexible than this.:devil:


----------



## P220C

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Illum_the_nation said:


> wow wee....
> 
> 2AAs, 1, 2, or 3 cr123As I don't think it could get more flexible than this.:devil:


 
Yeah, I am thinking this light and that feature would make for a a great asset during a hurricane (insert SHTF scenario here).

Last month we were without power (not without light:thumbsup: mind you) for over four days following a hurricane. 

It is surprising to me that with the new generation LEDs, we hardly used any batteries at all. 

I would say we went though less than a dozen or two of AA and D cells. 

I went through a handful of CR 123s in my xenon surefires just using them. Didn't really use them for anything besides searching for stuff, and even then I mostly used my PT Apex Pro.


----------



## JNewell

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

When I first saw this, I thought, "wow, imagine that, SF acknowledges the existence of AAs."  

But your point is even better - what do I have laid up in quantity for emergencies? Well, 123As, sure, lots. But AAs by the gross as well. Having a light that would take either would be really great.


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

to GreenLED --


Good work !

:thumbsup:
_


----------



## manoloco

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

looks really nice, seems very functional, however i have never liked much power packs separated from the light main body, as much as they could balance the weight on the head, that line needed to conduct electricity always seems like problems to me.

The equipped to survive news on it says that there will be more headlamps, maybe there will be one with the cell/s on the main body, i think i will be aiming for one of those, in fact i would have to, as my budget does not allow it now, so some more months will fit me perfectly.


----------



## nzgunnie

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Does any one have any more news on this headlamp?


----------



## tja343

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

http://www.lapolicegear.com/surefire-saint-tactical-headlamp-flashlight.html
the only info that i have seen on it, it says it can run on 2 AA's, looks like surefire finally gave into the general battery market huh?


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



tja343 said:


> http://www.lapolicegear.com/surefire-saint-tactical-headlamp-flashlight.html
> the only info that i have seen on it, it says it can run on 2 AA's, looks like surefire finally gave into the general battery market huh?


Why would their Saint give that impression?
The ability to AA batteries is for emergency, 'last chance' situations. The performance on AA batteries is not optimal by any stretch and I can't see why you'd decide to power the Saint with AA batteries if you were able to power it properly with SF123A's.
It's definitely designed and intended as a backup fall-back feature.

I'm afraid that the Saint isn't the 'capitulation' you're hoping for from SureFire. And certainly not an indication that SureFire is embracing the AA battery!


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I would power the SF headlamp with LSD NiMH cells. Why not? I can only get SF CR123 batteries on-line or 25 miles down the road at the gun shop. Even then they are 21 bucks for a box (I think 12 but will have to look). I night hike maybe 3-4 times a week and run my headlamps on Hi. I just drop the NiMH cells into the charger and that is all. But would use CR123 cells for weekend outings in winter.


----------



## Misterbean

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Could this thing possibly run on two 14500s? If it can run off of three 3 volt sf123As then it would make sense to be able to run it off of two lithium-ion batts.


----------



## BrownDog52469

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

McGizmo makes a good point in his earlier post - HEAT!!! A headlamp producing high lumens is also going to have to dissapate substantial heat. I cooked enough brain cells in college. I don't need my head lamp frying up what I got left.


----------



## nzbazza

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Misterbean said:


> Could this thing possibly run on two 14500s? If it can run off of three 3 volt sf123As then it would make sense to be able to run it off of two lithium-ion batts.



The 3 CR123A cells are in parallel so the battery voltage is a nominal 3V not 9V of 3 CR123A in series. Also when using the 2AA battery option these are in series so they too supply a nominal 3V. All this suggests that the Saint HL has a boost circuit to raise the battery voltage to that of the LED (about 3.3V when pumping out 100lm). The presence of a buck circuit has not been confirmed so it unknown whether the Saint will accept the use of Li-Ion batteries, even if only 1x RCR123 @3.7V was used.


----------



## Yucca Patrol

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Does this mean that it will be equally bright running on AA's as it is with CR123? 

That has been my biggest concern since I would usually prefer to use NiMH AA's

If Fenix doesn't come around and announce something about their headlamp, the Saint will be on my X-mas list. . .


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Brightness on 2AA is likely to be less than the 3 CR123's. The boost driver in there isn't going to pull the AAs harder to make equivalent brightness imho.

I doubt 14500s will be compatable as well.

As for heat... if I can use a small fanless solution to dissipate over 50 watts of heat for a computer chip, there should be no problem designing a heatsinking body into a headlamp to dissipate 3+ watts coming off of an LED. 
I have a heatsink that fits into a closed hand right here that is designed to passively cool a 15W chip enclosed within a small space with virtually no airflow. A headlamp offers more not less potential heatsinking than an EDC light.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

AAGH... you guys are tempting me. (A Surefire headlamp? I'm in!!)

I'm definitely buying this when it's released.


----------



## jjnyberg

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I got a chance to test out the Saint Headlamp -- check out my review at Outside Online. Let me know your thoughts. 

http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2008/10/gear-test-suref.html


----------



## Sgt. LED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

OH it should of come to one of us!

We could give it such a battery of tests.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Sgt. LED said:


> OH it should of come to one of us!
> We could give it such a battery of tests.


Perhaps SureFire is looking to gauge opinion and influence the market sectors the Saint is intended for; and so is sending out products to people in those markets?


----------



## SureAddicted

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



jjnyberg said:


> I got a chance to test out the Saint Headlamp -- check out my review at Outside Online. Let me know your thoughts.
> 
> http://outside-blog.away.com/blog/2008/10/gear-test-suref.html




Looks promising, just have a few questions.
How wide is the beam on flood? Is the beam fixed, meaning can you change say from spot to flood?
You mention its waterproof, have you tested that claim?
Whats the runtime on 3 CR123's?
Whats the tint like?
How far does it throw? 
Optic or reflector?

I'm just pretty eager to know as much as I can about the saint, great review and I look forward to your response.

EDIT I think I can answer some of my own questions.

High 100 lumens / 6 hrs runtime
Med 10 Lumens / 48 hrs runtime
Low 1 Lumen / 144 hrs runtime

Waterproof to 1 meter for 30 minutes.
S.O.S mode
Coated Refractive Optic

Impressive, but I'm not sure if it will be as bright as a car headlight, unless your driving a model T Ford.


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Hey Justin --


That's certainly an* Excellent first post* ! ! !


Oh, and Welcome to CandlePowerForums.

:welcome:


We eagerly await any more "special reviews" you can provide.

:twothumbs



Ah, just one more thing . . . .


When an article or review sez:

"*It's essentially waterproof*"

we have come to realize that this means:

"*unless you do something foolish, like immerse it in water*"



_


----------



## Sgt. LED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

See that partial list of questions above?!

The review of bright and tough just doesn't cut it, it is a Surefire we know that part already! It's like starving and being allowed to smell a good roast. Yeah sure you already knew it smelled good, but you are hungrier than ever NOW with the reminder. 

Where is that weenie at anyway! Oh PK, come and talk to us a awhile.


----------



## GarageBoy

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Wait, in 2AA its not direct drive is it?


----------



## Yucca Patrol

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

The deciding factor for me will be how well it performs on AA's.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Sgt. LED said:


> Where is that weenie at anyway! Oh PK, come and talk to us a awhile.


He's rather busy at the moment.


----------



## naked2

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Just my 1/50 dollars worth: I use a headlamp regularly in my occupation (electrician) and also in some of my favorite pastimes (backpacking, camping, hiking), and I've tried all kinds.

Up until recently, the best headlamp I ever used (for MY purposes) was a PrincetonTec EOS, and after using one since it came out, I'll never use a headlamp with top strap/rear battery pack again. For me, they are just too cumbersome/uncomfortable/heavy for extended use. :shakehead

So I don't care how bright/bulletproof this thing is, _I'd_ never buy it, especially for over $100, let alone $150~190.

I replaced my EOS with a Zebralight H30, and I love it; hardly know it's there! :thumbsup: I'm not a "night runner" (I'm sure SureFire will love to scoop up _that_ "massive market"! LOL), but I'd bet the H30 would be great for that too (it's perfect for everything else I've used it for!)

At work with 16340s it's very bright, and I've always got spares with me. On a recent 3 night backpacking trip (where I always use fresh primaries) it never neded a change, and was not noticibly less bright than with rechargeables. 

But if you're a brand loyalist, and don't mind something relatively cumbersome/uncomfortable/heavy, then maybe this light's for you! 

Personally, I'd wait to see what McGizmo comes up with :twothumbs, or if you want something a _little_ heavier, the Zebralight H60 ought to be out soon.


----------



## xmlaohan

*SUREFIRE SAINT HEADLAMP PUT IN MARKET*

I found the information about saint on Lebaron website,is 

anybody interested in it?

http://www.lebaron.ca/pdf_files_sp09/outdoor/petzl_surefire.pdf


----------



## jayhackett03

*Re: SUREFIRE SAINT HEADLAMP PUT IN MARKET*

still haven't got an e-mail from brightguy yet.


----------



## Marduke

*Re: SUREFIRE SAINT HEADLAMP PUT IN MARKET*

Have you seen the rather long existing thread on it?
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/199665


----------



## jayhackett03

*Re: SUREFIRE SAINT HEADLAMP PUT IN MARKET*



Marduke said:


> Have you seen the rather long existing thread on it?
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/199665



thats all old news.


----------



## Yucca Patrol

*Re: SUREFIRE SAINT HEADLAMP PUT IN MARKET*

I like the idea that SureFire has finally offered a headlamp, and especially the fact that they have finally acknowledged the existence of the rechargeable AA battery. . . . . but it is too bad that it isn't brighter or rated to be more waterproof.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

:welcome: xmlaohan 
I merged your thread into the long-standing Saint thread.


----------



## xmlaohan

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

thanks ,size15's.

I also can get more information about it in this way, this light is my eager
thing.


----------



## Ten Pointer

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I just got a flyer from Cabelas V21-51-9076 for $184.99. 

A little too much for me.


----------



## AMD64Blondie

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'd be really interested in buying the Saint,except for one thing-the weight. 8.7 ounces!! That would feel like a brick strapped to my head,compared to my current favorite headlight..UK Vizion at 3.9 ounces.Even the price wouldn't be too much of a deterrent.


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Does Anybody have any news about this release ??
Why is taking so long ?
Thanks


----------



## txgp17

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Stage Tech said:


> Does Anybody have any news about this release ??
> Why is taking so long ?
> Thanks


I think they're waiting to perfect the P61L & KL9 before they start working on the Saint.


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Start Working ?
I'ts already done , people got it for reviews , seen at shot show , etc...
Why it can't be released or , at least mentioned on SF website ?
Love and Hate Surefire some times....


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Currently I'm hearing April release.


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Of what year?


----------



## Tempest UK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Surely from the mammoth UA2 and UB2 thread we all know better than to expect concrete release dates from SureFire? 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Yucca Patrol

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

(togue in cheei)\\ We all need remember that Surefire is moving towards being a law firm and so I am sure their research and development no longer a priority if they can do better suiing everyone they can with frivolous lawsuits.

So actually designing and manufaturing new been moved to the back burner.:mecry:


----------



## capo

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

here you can buy it:
http://www.batteryjunction.com/surefire-saint.html


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



capo said:


> here you can buy it:
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/surefire-saint.html


I very much doubt they have any stock of this yet.

The Saint was not shown at SHOT Show 2008 but will hopefully be at SHOT Show 2009 tomorrow


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

At least the Saint is seen in the 2009 catalog...release dates anyone ?
No one scanned the saint part of the catalog ?
Thanks


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Stage Tech said:


> At least the Saint is seen in the 2009 catalog...release dates anyone ?
> No one scanned the saint part of the catalog ?
> Thanks


I wouldn't say thaaaat!

Mike of OpticsHQ has a link to an SF catalog's Saint pages:
Picasa Web Albums - Michael - SureFire Saint Headlamp


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It's from the 2008 catalog these photos , I have this catalog , I've got it at Iceberg army & navy in soho NY.
I would like to see if there's any new info on the 2009 Cat.


----------



## carrot

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Wasn't there something about a Saint Minima that takes 1x123? What's the story on that one?


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Stage Tech said:


> It's from the 2008 catalog these photos , I have this catalog , I've got it at Iceberg army & navy in soho NY.
> I would like to see if there's any new info on the 2009 Cat.


I can't help you with the 2009 Catalog. By the way, what were you doing in my town?

Jeff


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Touring with a Singer...I've been there several times , always with a quick stop at Iceberg for new goodies and a pair of Bates Boot.


----------



## spyderknut

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Ok, was there a production version at SHOT 2009?


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Anyone ?? Minimus ??


----------



## Moka

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



carrot said:


> Wasn't there something about a Saint Minima that takes 1x123? What's the story on that one?


 


Stage Tech said:


> Anyone ?? Minimus ??


 

+1 Very interested in this one??? Any elaborate? anyone with the catalogue in there greasy mitts care to release some photos... =P:thumbsup:


----------



## O_DubhGhaill

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Anyone on this? LAPoliceGear backorder placed last week, "Your order contains merchandise that is temporarily on backorder. Please be assured that this merchandise is currently en-route to us and will be arriving in our warehouse shortly..." ?


----------



## hurricane

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It's featured in this month's Outside Magazine alongside several other readily available headlamps, even though there is not even a hint of the Saint on the SureFire site. Kind of confusing for consumers [who don't frequent forums like this] who would like to purchase this badboy. I would consider it to be a concept until it materializes ... the precedents from the 2008 catalog [e.g. optimus/invictus] are proof of this.


----------



## GMArthur

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Here is a video of the headlamp. You have to watch the a2z first though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poZbsdOUtx8


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Brigade QM now has them available for pre-order as well...


----------



## TacticalGrilling

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Several Saints in the Surefire booth @ SHOT this year. But, then again, there was also an Optimus and Invictus in the booth LAST year, too. I'm interested in seeing final product and availability, but you could say I am "cautiously optimistic." YMMV

-Nick


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



capo said:


> here you can buy it:
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/surefire-saint.html




Latest SF update says March/April release for the Saint.

The Minima is another version that is basically the Saint without the external battery pack. The Saint has now been changed so it can run on a 1XCR123A contained in the head of the light so, effectively, when you buy a Saint you'll get a Minima + an external AA/CR123A battery pack and an over the top headband. There's no pricing/release date info for the Minima.


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Where is this Update ?


----------



## Kiessling

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

A 1x123 self-contained headlamp without external battery pack sounds perfect. Just what I need


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Stage Tech said:


> Where is this Update ?



It's not something public - we get a weekly update on pre/back/orders with estimated ship dates.


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Ok , Thanks !
So , if there's one CR123 in the "chamber" , and plus 3 in the batt pack , we get 4 total , where this puts us regarding runtime ?
Or we get a smaller batt pack ? 02 CR123 would be just fine for a headlamp...and of course 04 is too heavy , only for those who really need runtime.
Hope to see this soon...


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

No, I think you are running only off of the internal cell OR the external pack - not both at the same time.


----------



## Lightcrazycanuck

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Lightcrazycanuck said:


>


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



MattK said:


> The Saint has now been changed so it can run on a 1XCR123A contained in the head of the light so, effectively, when you buy a Saint you'll get a Minima + an external AA/CR123A battery pack and an over the top headband.



That's one of the most interesting ideas I've heard in a while. As long as the beam is wide enough, the Saint could very well replace all of the headlamps I currently use.


----------



## regulator

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I am really looking forward to seeing one of these headlights in person. I have only recently been interested in headlights. I gained appreciation for a headlight after working for several weeks in an environment that required the repeated use of a light source while working with ones hands. I had to use the flashlight in mouth trick - not fun. I can see this also great for camping. Being a flashoholic, I have several good flashlights but only one cheap headlight. The Surefire seems to cover my headlight needs perfectly.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



regulator said:


> I am really looking forward to seeing one of these headlights in person. I have only recently been interested in headlights. I gained appreciation for a headlight after working for several weeks in an environment that required the repeated use of a light source while working with ones hands. I had to use the flashlight in mouth trick - not fun. I can see this also great for camping. Being a flashoholic, I have several good flashlights but only one cheap headlight. The Surefire seems to cover my headlight needs perfectly.



I've been in headlights for a long time now, and my best one is a lupine, with a maxumium of 830 lumens. That is a lot for reading a book in a shelter. Even the lowest is about 15 lumens, witch is still a lot. 
But this Saint seems like a nice addition to my users collection as I now often use an E1B with an elastic headband. It is just that 5 lumens of light, but that can be a lot. 
And 1 lumens can be serious nice light. 
And if you want more, you can crank the light up; 100 lumens is more than enough for casual camping and even for most emergencies. 
Combined with a M3T(L), you can reach almost anything 

But the UA2 is still very high on my list and I told myself I wouldn't buy any other light than an UA2. :sick2: me and my big mouth


----------



## kosPap

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



MattK said:


> Latest SF update says March/April release for the Saint.
> 
> The Minima is another version that is basically the Saint without the external battery pack. The Saint has now been changed so it can run on a 1XCR123A contained in the head of the light so, effectively, when you buy a Saint you'll get a Minima + an external AA/CR123A battery pack and an over the top headband. There's no pricing/release date info for the Minima.


 

it says so in this video (3:16 min)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84FWf48n-P4


----------



## hurricane

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Great vid ... thanks for the link!:thanks:


----------



## nzbazza

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Its amazing that someone can talk about a headlamp for over 6 and a half minutes....

No wait, I'm sure everyone here could do that too....


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



kosPap said:


> it says so in this video (3:16 min)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84FWf48n-P4


Even though it is slightly "biased" toward SureFire, that was the most informative demonstration of the not yet released headlamp. Thank you kosPap for finding this. There is not much out there about the Saint. I think that the video can help many people easily decide that they want one, or not. Build quality looks great, and so is the user interface. :thumbsup:

Jeff


----------



## kosPap

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Now may I tell something "bad"

Surefire was fast to sue Penatgonlight over switch patent issues...

Then goes on to use a headlamp design (cylindrical rotating) that another company has already in production...


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



kosPap said:


> Now may I tell something "bad"
> 
> Surefire was fast to sue Penatgonlight over switch patent issues...
> 
> Then goes on to use a headlamp design (cylindrical rotating) that another company has already in production...


If that other company has a patent then there could be issues needing to be resolved.
However, SureFire have been working on their headlamps for years and I'm sure they can prove that if required.
Just because another company beat them to market doesn't necessarily mean SureFire copied another company's design.


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I saw a headlamp several years ago that used a pot on the end and a cylindrical rotaing head. Basically it was conceptually similar to the Saint but used 10x5mm LED's instead of one. 

I think there is very little new in this world, and sometimes its just who has the best lawyers.

I like the part in the video about how surfire commisioned a study of 1000 heads. I'm thinking this project has been in the works for some time.


----------



## kosPap

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

well, in the video says eitehr 2 or 3 years..

I actually liked the rheostat brigntness control!


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Can somebody, anybody, tell me if I can use 1xR123 cell instead of 1xCR123 cell or 2xR123 cells instead of 3xCR123 cells in the Saint? 2xR123 cells = 8.2v max., and 3xCR123 cells = 9v max.

Can I use 2xAA Eneloop NiMh cells intead of 2xAA alkaline/lithium primary cells?  2xAA Eneloops = 2.4v and 2xAA alk./lithium = 3.0v. I see no reason why either case wouldn't be electrically compatible.


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



luxlover said:


> Can somebody, anybody, tell me if I can use 1xR123 cell instead of 1xCR123 cell or 2xR123 cells instead of 3xCR123 cells in the Saint? 2xR123 cells = 8.2v max., and 3xCR123 cells = 9v max.


The batteries appear to be in parallel not series, so 3v no matter how many primaries. That would make it a boost only circuit most likely. Obviously nobody knows for sure but I can guarantee what the official surefire response is:
"LiIon Not Supported"
NiMh should work just fine with a boost circuit.

Having said that, there are members who use their Titan on LiIon with apparently no I'll affect. I would guess the circuit is identical.


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



cave dave said:


> The batteries appear to be in parallel not series, so 3v no matter how many primaries. That would make it a boost only circuit most likely. Obviously nobody knows for sure but I can guarantee what the official Surefire response is: "LiIon Not Supported"
> NiMH should work just fine with a boost circuit.
> 
> Having said that, there are members who use their Titan on LiIon, with apparently no ill effect. I would guess the circuit is identical.


Dave,
I see. So if all three slots are occupied, the circuit will still see a 3v input, but the runtime will vary approx. 3x compared to one cell and in compliance with Ohm's Law. Is this correct? That means that the two AA cells are in series, since nobody can get 100lm from a 1.5v input. Clever design, but problematic for me and my "free lumens philosophy"

Jeff


----------



## kosPap

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

indeed on the runtime...maybe a bit more since the batts are taxed less...

By "free lumens" do you mean "free LI_ION lumens"?

Funny thing is that the headlamp is stll not out and we are figuring ways to hack it!!!!


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

If LiIon voltages don't damage the light there is a major disadvantage to using LiIon in a buck circuit. The light will maintain full brightness for the entire runtime and then cutout without warning when the battery protection kicks in. This isn't good for the batteries either to use the protection circuit like this. Also each battery will trip at different times and I'm not sure what this would do with 3 LiIon in parallel. 

You really shouldn't run a group of LiIon batteries with 3 different protection circuits. Packs should be made up with one circuit that monitors all the batteries.


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

If the CR123's are set up in parallel, then we could make our own parallel 2xRCR123 insert to drop the 3.6-4.2V down to 3V as there is plenty of room to put in either a resistor or constant voltage buck circuit.


kosPap said:


> Funny thing is that the headlamp is still not out and we are figuring ways to hack it!!!!


And we will have everything worked out except actual testing!


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



kosPap said:


> By "free lumens" do you mean "free LI_ION lumens"?
> 
> Funny thing is that the headlamp is stll not out and we are figuring ways to hack it!!!!


That is correct. FREE is a good thing! :thumbsup:

But the light will be out sooner than we think, and we should know our limitations before using it. I surrender to the fact that only 1, 2 or 3 CR123 cells can be used. My regimen will be 2xAA Eneloop 2,000mAH cells (2.4v) or 2xAA Lithium primary cells (3.0v) most of the time, especially when doing close work at a desk, and 3xCR123 for long outdoor activities. As long as I can use free-lumens cells, I am happy. :thumbsup:

Does anybody know if the Saint allows the use of 1xCR123 in the head, with the total detachment of the battery pak? I have been hearing about a "Minimus" light, and am not sure how that differs from the Saint?

Jeff


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

The saint is supposed to come with a cap that fits on the right side and allows the use of 1 CR123. The 3x CR123 pack is then removed. Otherwise you would have a pack and a cord and a screwcap thingy just dangling there.

If you buy a saint you get everything you need to make a minimus.


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



cave dave said:


> The Saint is supposed to come with a cap that fits on the right side, and allows the use of 1xCR123. The 3xCR123 pack is then removed. Otherwise, you would have a pack and a cord and a screw cap thingy, just dangling there.
> 
> If you buy a Saint you get everything you need to make a Minimus.


That is great news, Dave. Sign me up! My money is burning a hole in my pocket, anxiously awaiting this innovative lighting tool.

Jeff


----------



## kosPap

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



luxlover said:


> Does anybody know if the Saint allows the use of 1xCR123 in the head, with the total detachment of the battery pak? I have been hearing about a "Minimus" light, and am not sure how that differs from the Saint?


 
Luxlover jump back to message 214 and watch the video....


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



kosPap said:


> Luxlover jump back to message #214, and watch the video....


Thank you, Sir. Now I remember. The entire package is outstanding. I just can't get enough of that video. It should be nominated for some eduucational award. Well, I can't find one reason why a Saint should not adorn my head!

I currently own a Princeton Tec Apex 4xAA headlamp and a ZebraLight H30-Q5. The Saint is far superior to either one.


----------



## kosPap

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



luxlover said:


> snip snipp...
> 
> Well, I can't find one reason why a Saint should not adorn my head!
> 
> I currently own a Princeton Tec Apex 4xAA headlamp and a ZebraLight H30-Q5. The Saint is far superior to either one.,,,,


 
Now you know what you have done?

You have committed yourself to a hands down comparison of the Saint and H30 !!!!!!!:devil:


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



kosPap said:


> Now you know what you have done?
> 
> You have committed yourself to a hands-down comparison of the Saint and H30 !!!!!!!:devil:


I have put my hands-up as a sign of my surrender, as the person unanimously (by 1) nominated for a hands-down Saint vs H30 shootout. How about the Saint vs. the more compatible PT Apex? That is a "real" headlamp, and the H30 is not. :thinking:

Jeff


----------



## kosPap

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

well indeeed the Apex looks more like the saint...and the H-30 like the minimus..

hmmmm


----------



## luxlover

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



kosPap said:


> Well indeed the Apex looks more like the Saint...and the H30 like the Minimus.
> 
> hmmmm


That is a perfect analogy. I will compare the H30 to the Minimus, since I will be using the Minimus mode the most often.

Jeff


----------



## hurricane

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Everywhere BUT the SureFire site:

http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/200902/headlamps.html

Where did these guys learn how to market products?

I apologize if this has been posted above.


----------



## mega_lumens

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Interesting thing I noticed was the guy in the video saying that they don't use coiled wire like many other head lamps to produce more runtine, because current needs to travel less through a straight wire. 

Do straight wires really improve runtine compared to coiled wires?


----------



## likeguymontag

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



mega_lumens said:


> [...] Do straight wires really improve runtine compared to coiled wires?



No. That's a drop in the bucket, or maybe a drop in the pond.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



likeguymontag said:


> No. That's a drop in the bucket, or maybe a drop in the pond.


Actually, SureFire struggled to find a coiled cable that didn't result in reduced performance (runtime, peak output) for their WeaponLight remote switches which is one of the reasons why they've never offered this type of cable.
SureFire have put in the research for this.

I wonder whether you can point to any research to counter their claim as you so clearly think they're wrong?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> Actually, SureFire struggled to find a coiled cable that didn't result in reduced performance (runtime, peak output) for their WeaponLight remote switches which is one of the reasons why they've never offered this type of cable.
> SureFire have put in the research for this.
> 
> I wonder whether you can point to any research to counter their claim as you so clearly think they're wrong?



It is very easy to do the math: a 0.25mm2 (23 AWG) cable, one meter long will lose about 0.14 watt with 1 A current. With a CR123 battery we have a voltage of about 2.5 volt and are delivering 2.5 watt, i.e. we loses about 6% power to the cable. To reduce power loss we can either use a short or a thicker cable.
It does not matter if it is coiled or not for the above math, but a straight cable can be considerable shorter.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

So you're saying that the exact same wire can be used for both cable types with no long term impact on durability or other performance?
I'm not sure that is so.

What property of the coiled cable makes it coil and consistently coil back up over the life-time of the remote switch, or headlamp cable which could well have a longer lifespan.

Al


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I've opened up some coiled type wire for use in bicycle lights and the internal wires were outrageously thin. Like dental floss. Not much copper there.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> So you're saying that the exact same wire can be used for both cable types with no long term impact on durability or other performance?
> I'm not sure that is so.
> 
> What property of the coiled cable makes it coil and consistently coil back up over the life-time of the remote switch, or headlamp cable which could well have a longer lifespan.
> 
> Al



Both cable needs fine copper wires can can take the movement of the cable, I do not know how easy it is to get this kind of thin coiled cable. The problem might be that the cable SF need is not a standard item and SF is to small to make a custom cable with the needed specifications.

The coiling is a property of the manufacturing process and the plastic used and not all types of coiled cables has a long lifetime, it has nothing to do with the copper in the cable.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



cave dave said:


> I've opened up some coiled type wire for use in bicycle lights and the internal wires were outrageously thin. Like dental floss. Not much copper there.



Yes, some cables has very limited copper, but you can also get cables with lots of copper in them. I am using a coiled cable with 4 wires, each 1mm2, but you do not want to run around with that cable on you head, it is a bit to heavy and also rather expensive.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

So there are constraints that make using coiled cables difficult - for example to get the necessary electrical performance means the bulk and weight increase as well as cost.

Al


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> So there are constraints that make using coiled cables difficult - for example to get the necessary electrical performance means the bulk and weight increase as well as cost.
> 
> Al



I think the biggest problem with using coiled cables, is that it must be manufactured. It is not like regular cable where you can just buy a roll with the number of wires and gauge you want and then cut it into the lengths you want.
With the coiled cable you can either buy from a few standard cables or it must be manufactured with the length, number of wires and wire gauge you want. It does simply not come on a roll.

The reason for the bulk of the cable I am using is because it has 4 heavy wires in it and is made for more industrial purpose. But a coiled cable will always have more bulk, due to the coiling you need maybe 4 (I have not verified this number) times the length of a straight cable.


----------



## baterija

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> So there are constraints that make using coiled cables difficult - for example to get the necessary electrical performance means the bulk and weight increase as well as cost.
> 
> Al



It might be useful to look at how resistance is calculated which HJK used in his example.
Resistance = (Resitivity of the material x Length) / Cross Sectional Area

You can vary length and cross section in design. There's only so much you can do balancing resistance, cross section, and weight to lengthen the cable for coils. If you maintain cross section then weight, resistance, and power loss all go up by the same factor as the length. If you maintain resistance weight goes up by the square of the length increase factor. (A 3 times longer cable with the same resistance will have 3 times the cross section, and 9 times the weight.)

My weaponlight cable is 9 inches long. If my monkey like measurement holding probes and then pressing the switch with my toe is accurate it has .03 ohms resistance. On a coiled cable with the same cross section that's 2-3 times longer you get .06 - .09 ohm resistance. It would also weigh 2-3 times as much. Keep the weight the same by reducing thickness and you are at .12-.27. All of that's additional resistance on top of what the current path normally has. It's not huge but people do resistance mods on maglite switches for less gain.


----------



## likeguymontag

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



baterija said:


> It's not huge but people do resistance mods on maglite switches for less gain.



Aren't those people pulling massive amps though? P = I²R

If this lamp is putting out ~100 lumens, it won't be pulling more than 500 mA on high at the very worst (back-of-the-envelope).


----------



## tnuckels

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It’s so nice to see that the two camps, the one that enjoys picking at Surefire at every opportunity, and the one that has virtually unflappable praise for them, are alive and well and still egging each other on. Meanwhile, those of us wandering about in the middle scratch our heads and wonder, “Why so tense, boys and girls”?

I’m quite certain that Surefire did their homework before entering a new market segment and their attention to detail shows in several of the Saint headlamp’s features. However, the Shot Show presenter seems to be stretching things a wee bit to Surefire’s advantage when he suggests things like:
Buttons are harder to manipulate than a rotary switching system
AL buckles are superior to plastic ones that cause “headaches”

And then to the question of coiled vs. “straight” wires, assuming all other variables are constant, isn’t it simply a question of greater length causing additional resistance, or is there some other electro-magnetic field voodoo at work in a coiled electrical path that works against us. If no voodoo is involved then wouldn’t a 2" coiled wire be better than a 3" straight wire, though the net result be practically negligible in the scheme of things?

I read this to be *LikeGuyMontag*’s point, to put the exaggeration into perspective, and not to suggest that there were studies to the contrary.

PS. I’ve got some coiled cables on my old IBM keyboards that are about 20yrs old now, and though they don’t carry any current (that I’m aware of) they’ve certainly seen their fair share of wear and tear and are still kicking it.


----------



## Guy's Dropper

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I will at least agree that the switch would be easier to operate. It's also nice that AA batteries can be used, but it's still too pricey for me right now.


----------



## MikeF

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

The Saint looks so nice and to be too much to resist. I called Surefire and the very helpful lady I spoke with told me they won't be going to dealers until the end of April, and then a month later they will be available for purchase directly from Surefire. I think I will wait a little longer before giving anyone my money for another presale.


----------



## jimbosan72

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I just got off the phone with surefire's customer service and the man said the saint will be released on April 27th.


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



jimbosan72 said:


> ... the man said the saint will be released on April 27th.



Ahh, but what year?

Seriously if you are in that much of a hurry to call SF, go over to marketplace and place yourself on a wait list. You will be sent an email or PM when they come in. There is absolutely no need to pre-pay from a good dealer.

With any new model its a good idea to wait a few months to see if problems crop up and are being resolved. The Titan release was a disaster for instance. I think its good SF is taking there time with this one. Since it was supposed to be released last year I can only assume that SF had problems crop up on their end and are trying to get them fixed before release.


----------



## Lightcrazycanuck

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Yep,the first version of anything is always the guinea pig so to speak.Wait untill it has been tested by the experts on this forum before buying.That's what I'm doing.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## roberttheiii

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I was just drooling over some Saint photos and I noticed the AAs in the case going the same direction. I wonder if this thing would run off a single AA. Obviously if it would it wouldn't run for long, but that would still be nice in a pinch.

R


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



roberttheiii said:


> I was just drooling over some Saint photos and I noticed the AAs in the case going the same direction. I wonder if this thing would run off a single AA. Obviously if it would it wouldn't run for long, but that would still be nice in a pinch.
> 
> R



nope prob. needs 3V to run.


----------



## roberttheiii

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Thats what I was thinking, then I thought about when its running on one CR123A that starts out at 4 volts. I assume this thing is regulated or semi-regulated, so I think it'll actually function on something below 3 volts, but will it drop down to 1.5, and is it wired to take two AAs in the same direction......


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I haven't seen that good pictures of it, but I would asume it needs 3V otherwise you would have to boost the 1,2 volts that a used AA gives a lot. If it gets boosted that hard, there will be hardly any runtime left to speak of. 
just my 0.02, but I guess I'm not that far off. 

but I'm sitting tight until the 27th....

Ooooh, when the saints, come marching in...


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Still no saint news? Or am I missing something?!


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I wouldnt lose sleep waiting for em'. I bet they wont release till the end of summer or later mabe fall. who knows, mabe never.


----------



## american lockpicker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Whats the MSRP for them?


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I might just get the Saint. I like the AA or CR123 and the fact (if it remains the same) someone can use one CR123 in the head for a battery pack free headlamp kinda like a single cell Zebralight. Also the very adjustable output is nice too. Guessing the delay must be to work out bugs. Thats ok by me. However I got a bunch of headlamps so will hold off for the reports to come in.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I heard from a dealer that he *hopes* to get some this month, but then again, who will say for sure?
I'm not holding my breath. 

Price..
There are prices of $185 as a pre-sale price circling on the internet. 
but nobody knows if that is a definitive price, or if that is just to begin with, because these site had the Saint for over a year on their website now. But I wouldn't mind paying that much for this light, if it is as good as it looks.


----------



## MichaelW

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

So, is the lowest output 1 lumen? If true, then the guy in the video was incorrect in saying it goes from 0-100, he should have said 1-100.

and is the white: cool, neutral (like the Zebralight), or warm?


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I haven't seen any comment on color or tint. 
My E1B's (I had three, two give-aways and one for me own) where totally different in tint. 
But as I intend to use the light, tint doens't really say that much to me. I do prefer a warm (not yellow) tint, but any light that gives light is a light IMHO.


----------



## [email protected]

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



roberttheiii said:


> Thats what I was thinking, then I thought about when its running on one CR123A that starts out at 4 volts. I assume this thing is regulated or semi-regulated, so I think it'll actually function on something below 3 volts, but will it drop down to 1.5, and is it wired to take two AAs in the same direction......



 what kinda cr123a are you using? 4 volts?


----------



## mazingerz9

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Nice headlamp. It would be nice to see its brightness dial feature on some flashlights.


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It would be reeeaaaaly nice if someone could actually purchase said headlamp.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

someone said it would be out the 27th. Today is the 28th and I've not seen it yet. 
A local dealer told me he did expect/was promised some saints in april and a few in may. he didn't see them either. 
I really hope this is not going the UA2 & UB2 way; VAPORWARE.....  indeed!


----------



## Snow

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



MichaelW said:


> So, is the lowest output 1 lumen? If true, then the guy in the video was incorrect in saying it goes from 0-100, he should have said 1-100.
> 
> and is the white: cool, neutral (like the Zebralight), or warm?


 

Well it produces 0 lumens when off, so his statement is correct.


----------



## MichaelW

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Okay, if off is a mode.
But does this light operate in the extra low output range 0-1 lumen?
Probably not, because you might not notice that it is on.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I think it is nitpicking, but the page states that YOU can operate it with one hand from 0-100 lumens, not that the light operates from 0-100 lumens. IRC it also states that it gives light between 1 and 100 lumens. 
and even if it would give 0,1 lumens: we can't buy it yet. Darn.


----------



## wapkil

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



MichaelW said:


> But does this light operate in the extra low output range 0-1 lumen? Probably not, because you might not notice that it is on.



You would easily notice that it is on. The human eye is a ridiculously sensitive device. If you use a one lumen light to illuminate an area of a few square meters you get an equivalent of an illumination during a full moon night. You can see (but without distinguishing colors) when the light is a hundred times lower than that. I don't even want to guess how many orders of magnitude lower illumination is visible when looking directly at the emitter.

It is a real pity that so few manufacturers offer lights with modes in the sub-lumen range. I know it's much harder to advertise a 0.1 lumen low than a 250 lumen high. It of course also possible to block some of the light but for me a 3 or 5 lumen low that is usually present is simply much too bright to be the only low.


----------



## MichaelW

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I was more/less thinking of a situation where you weren't wearing the headlamp, and you didn't put it into 'system disable' and was on sitting on top of a sleeping bag, etc.
So 1 lumen would be more noticeable than 0.1 lumen.

Sure if you are in a completely dark cave, then 0.1 lumen would be perfectly usable.
I don't know about 0.01 lumen


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Maybe Surefire is just rounding to the nearest lumen?


----------



## wapkil

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



vtunderground said:


> Maybe Surefire is just rounding to the nearest lumen?



Yeah, it's quite possible. From what I read, they also have a tendency to provide release dates accurate within a couple of centuries


----------



## Kiessling

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

What are a couple of centuries in the face of eternity?


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I heard the reason they are delayed is they are still waiting for the runtimes to come in on the 0.01 lm setting. 12mo and counting. 

j.k.
The Titan T1a is also advertised in the catalog as low=1lm, but I think that is just so they could assign a runtime to it. It goes much lower than that from reports. The Ti Titan went down to Tritium like glow. I have already been in a few settings inside and out where I didn't realize the low mode of my zebralight was even on, so it is possible to miss.


----------



## SUREFIRED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



cave dave said:


> The Ti Titan went down to Tritium like glow.



I sure hope the saint does NOT have that 5 minute cutoff on the low levels.


----------



## brammalay

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Is surefire headlamp is ever going to be released sometime soon. Anyone? maybe give surefire a call on the exact release date to the market. It has been a while now I guess.:mecry:


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I would guess based on the T1A release that they will trickle out about a month after they appear on the website. My guess is we will be lucky if they make it out by the end of Daylight Savings time. ( Not gonna say which year though)


----------



## DM51

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



brammalay said:


> Is surefire headlamp is ever going to be released sometime soon. Anyone? maybe give surefire a call on the exact release date to the market. It has been a while now I guess.:mecry:


Variations on your post, with questions concerning SF release dates, are among the most frequent posts seen on CPF. There's absolutely no point in asking. The only thing to do is wait until the item actually appears.


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



DM51 said:


> ... The only thing to do is wait until the item actually appears.



Not exactly true. The best thing to do is find a ceramic piggy bank at a yardsale. Put a one dollar bill into it each day. When the surefire releases the product you have been waiting for you can smash open the bank and buy your light. Save leftover money for items in 2010 catalog.





g



This worked out pretty well for me on Ra lights too. Buy the time they were ready for instant purchase I had enough money to get 3 of them.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

hahahaha, lol, but it is true, man, I'm still saving for my UA2, I think I'll be billionaire by the time I die, because I guess it will never materialise. 
I just so unbelievably hope that it won't go the same way the the Saint...
But saving the leftover money for itmes in the 2010 catalog means you can buy them probably in 2012... So what you are saying is that the piggy bank gets filled with money for 3 years, resulting in more than $1000 of savings, which should enable you to buy every new light you've drooled over for those 3 years, after that there is no need for any light anymore, so SF will go bankrupt... OTH, was there ever a _need_ to buy a new light after the first SF you've got 




cave dave said:


> Not exactly true. The best thing to do is find a ceramic piggy bank at a yardsale. Put a one dollar bill into it each day. When the surefire releases the product you have been waiting for you can smash open the bank and buy your light. Save leftover money for items in 2010 catalog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g
> 
> 
> 
> This worked out pretty well for me on Ra lights too. Buy the time they were ready for instant purchase I had enough money to get 3 of them.


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



AlecGold said:


> ...., after that there is no need for any light anymore, so SF will go bankrupt...



You obviously haven't seen the pre-release photos of the 2012 models posted over on Marketplace yet.





j/k


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I know, I know, I should be more at this nice place, but I'm working off my behind to pay for all those super nice lights that never appear

but eeehm, pre-release for 2012... that is a pre-pre-pre-release


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

For what it is worth a Surefire Saint ad was in this month's Backpacker mag.


----------



## grnamin

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Surefire customer service said that the release date is August 10, 2009.


----------



## MikeF

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



grnamin said:


> Surefire customer service said that the release date is August 10, 2009.


 
I was told August 10th to buy directly from Surefire and that their dealers would have them July 10th. The CS agent said they release some to dealer a month before they direct sell from Surefire. She couldn't (or wouldn't) tell me if there were enough for the first release to fill the dealer backorders. Its better to wait them out and allow for QC concerns to be addressed.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'm not buying it, no way it will be there in august 10th, well, perhaps august 10th 2012, but not 2009. 
I've been told so many dates, I don't believe it will be sold until I have on in my hands that I paid for and can call me own.


----------



## roberttheiii

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



[email protected] said:


> what kinda cr123a are you using? 4 volts?



Yeah, typo, 3 volts. That was my point, it must function substantially below 3 volts if it can run off i cr123a for any amount of time. Right?


----------



## joema

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



cave dave said:


> ...The Titan T1a is also advertised in the catalog as low=1lm, but I think that is just so they could assign a runtime to it. It goes much lower than that from reports. The Ti Titan went down to Tritium like glow...


I measured my T1A vs my Ra clicky on lowest setting. The Ra clicky supposedly outputs 0.03 lumens. 

My T1A outputs on low about 1/17th the lumens of my Ra clicky on low, which in theory would be about 0.00176 lumens (1.76 milli-lumens). 

With fully dark adapted eyes, even that minute illumination is sufficient to navigate about a small room. 

As previously stated, the human eye extremely sensitive on the low end of the scale. For this reason lights which allow a range of adjustments on the low end can be very useful.

E.g, my HDS U60 ran for 45 days (1080 hours) continuously on the lowest level of 0.08 lumens, on a single CR123A Duracell.

I don't know what the T1A runtime on lowest level is, but the current draw from the emitter would be so low, it could easily run for many months. You'd also have to factor in microcontroller draw, amount of time in sleep/wake state, etc. 

The current draw is so low and runtime so long very low outputs, I don't understand the 5-min T1A cutoff. I hope the Saint doesn't have that feature.


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



joema said:


> The current draw is so low and runtime so long very low outputs, I don't understand the 5-min T1A cutoff. I hope the Saint doesn't have that feature.



Did you actually measure the current draw, or are you making the assumption that because it is so dim it should be draining very little current? I think that is a bad assumption because some of the methods used to obtain such low levels aren't very efficient.

For reference the measured current draw at the battery (RCR123) on the lowest setting of a RA (0.7lm) was 1.7mA. The lowest level on a novatac was measured at 8.6 mA.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Joema, I remember some people here that did extensive measuring and came to the conclusion that the controllers and other electronic parts used much more energy in the lowest outputs than the led itself. I think it was a discussion about a year ago on a McGizmo XR19 orso. But end of the discussion was that after about 2 months the batteries where drained even if the led wouldn't be visible burning, just because of the current drawn by the controler. 

But the 5-min cutoff is the reason I didn't buy a T1A, I don't want to be putting off-on mu light 12 times an hour when I'm reading. Thank you very much!


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Bad news from another thread. :shakehead



MattK said:


> Okay here's the best current info available. This is all subject to change but is current as of this week. Don't shoot the messenger!
> 
> LX2: Within weeks.
> 
> A2L: Late June/early July.
> 
> Saint: September
> 
> 4 Die Heads: 4th Q 2009
> 
> ...



Notice they didn't say September of which year.


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

If the LX2 actually comes out before July 1st i could give it to my brother for his b-day which would be nice.


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Quite possible from what I hear - though you may have to drive up as it's likely to be close.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Good grief, that isn't any fun anymore. September. 
Are they going bankrupt next month, or wath? 
I'm not a basher, but this is really getting under my skin and p!$$ing me off. 
If they keep pushing deadlines, the company will soon be out of business. 

I know I start to refuse to buy any SF light until my much wanted Saint is in my hands. 
What a mess.


----------



## Xanteen

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

September is still pretty optimistic. The Saint is being held up by a small part that isn't meeting spec. The idea is that the heads can go forward without the battery box in the form of the Minimus with it's own SKU since the heads are ready for production.

But, the Minimus itself still has a few minor issues.  They don't affect the operation of the light, but may affect the user experience. The 2 questions on the table at Surefire are whether the remaining issues are important enough to address, and how to make thoase changes if needed.

They'll have to decide whether to address the concerns with engineering changes before releasing the light, which would cause another delay, push the thing out the door as-is and apply changes in-line as production comes up, or forget it and apply the knowledge to the SF Headlamp V2.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Xanteen said:


> They'll have to decide whether to address the concerns with engineering changes before releasing the light, which would cause another delay, push the thing out the door as-is and apply changes in-line as production comes up, or forget it and apply the knowledge to the SF Headlamp V2.




Now you're talking business and sense. I don't mind waiting if something isn't up to spec. I expect to pay something like 185, so I want a light that is up to spec, and if that means waiting, that is a bummer. but not more than that. 
But it is the waiting without reason that gets people (like me) unreasonable. Hmmm, there is some logic in that line 

If they would ask me (impatient buyer) they shouldn't release if it isn't up to spec. 
I buy Surefire because it is always top-notch quality. 

I know it can take months to remodel a mold, but I prefer to have to wait than to have a failing battery-door, leaking wire-hole or something like that. 
And the damage to the name Surefire, from a failing product could be considerable. Surefire makes the best production-lights there are, quality-wise, but also when you look at the over-engineering and lack of failing components even when used by heavy users like military. Such an image is a precious and easily damaged thing. 

How did you get this explaining?


----------



## Xanteen

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'm a fantastic guesser.


----------



## joema

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



AlecGold said:


> Joema, I remember some people here that did extensive measuring and came to the conclusion that the controllers and other electronic parts used much more energy in the lowest outputs than the led itself...But the 5-min cutoff is the reason I didn't buy a T1A, I don't want to be putting off-on mu light 12 times an hour when I'm reading.


There was a thread where someone speculated the microcontroller in an HDS light drew more than the LED, but that was pure speculation. Henry Schneiker, who designed the HDS, posted the microcontroller stayed in sleep mode most of the time, even when the light was operating. He said even at the HDS U60 lowest level (0.08 lumens), the LED pulls far more current than the microcontroller. There's no evidence the T1A is less efficient.

I wouldn't exclude a T1A because of the 5-min cutoff, if your concern is the scenario you stated (reading in bed, or similar use).

You can easily bypass the T1A 5-min cutoff for all but the very lowest output levels. E.g, turn output clockwise to maximum, then reduce to very dim (about 0.3 lumens), but slightly above minimum. It won't turn off in that case.

You can read at 0.3 lumens, but not at the lowest T1A level. Thus the only output levels where auto-cutoff can't be bypassed are levels you wouldn't use for reading, anyway.


----------



## joema

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



joema said:


> The current draw is so low and runtime so long very low outputs, I don't understand the 5-min T1A cutoff. I hope the Saint doesn't have that feature.





cave dave said:


> Did you actually measure the current draw, or are you making the assumption that because it is so dim it should be draining very little current? I think that is a bad assumption because some of the methods used to obtain such low levels aren't very efficient.
> 
> For reference the measured current draw at the battery (RCR123) on the lowest setting of a RA (0.7lm) was 1.7mA. The lowest level on a novatac was measured at 8.6 mA.



LED efficiency drops somewhat at extremely low drive levels, and there's a theoretical concern about microcontroller draw. 

However we know from empirical testing an HDS U60 will run 45 days straight at the lowest level on a single CR123A. Based on battery capacity of about 1,500 mAH, we can calculate the average current draw is very roughly 1.4 mA, else it couldn't run that long.

Just because the HDS U60 is that efficient doesn't mean the T1A is. However there's no evidence the T1A is less efficient.

My point was current draw is likely so low at ultra-low output levels, this makes the T1A 5-min cutoff a moot point. It could likely run for weeks or months at those levels. Even without auto-cutoff, the light would still be useable if accidently left on for weeks at the levels covered by auto-cutoff. At higher output levels it would run down, but auto-cutoff doesn't cover those.

If accidentally left on for many months at the lowest levels, the T1A (or Saint) could run down. But for such long-term storage the battery should be removed anyway, so auto-cutoff seems less meaningful there.

All this applies to the Saint, so I hope it doesn't have the T1A auto-cutoff behavior.


----------



## Xanteen

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



joema said:


> All this applies to the Saint, so I hope it doesn't have the T1A auto-cutoff behavior.



The Minimus doesn't have the auto off. I've had one running in front of me now at its lowest setting for going on 14 minutes with no change. I assume this means the Saint wouldn't either.


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Xanteen said:


> The Minimus doesn't have the auto off. I've had one running in front of me now at its lowest setting for going on 14 minutes with no change. I assume this means the Saint wouldn't either.



Could you get one in front of me as well


----------



## grnamin

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Here's a video from a Surefire rep:
http://www.campinggeardemonstrations.com/Surefire-Saint-Headlamp/p/CPXGUPEG


----------



## Blacksidesniper

*Surefire Headlamps !!!*

LOOK! HERE! http://www.surefire.com/headlamps . IT's FINALLY HERE! :twothumbs


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

Just called...NOT AVAILABLE TILL OCTOBER!!


----------



## Blacksidesniper

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

Bring on the rants. .


----------



## Illum

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

don't open a thread like this without a review, you had me scared for a second


----------



## Sgt. LED

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

Looks like a TIROS optic in there to me. I am sure it's not but still look at the rings.


----------



## FrogmanM

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

YES!!! Can't wait for Oct.  Well within my $$$ range too!

-Mayo


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

I wouldn't keep your hopes up. It seems inevitable that there will be more delays. (I'm a little disgruntled)


----------



## Blacksidesniper

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

If I had a review I would have posted this in the review section. :scowl:  .


----------



## cue003

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

The interactive site for it is pretty cool. It shows ya how to run on SOS and the various brightness levels and such.

Not bad. Lets hope they can engineer this time and get more lumens out the front like the lx2. 

That would be fabulous. I can see 2 of these in my future.


----------



## Greta

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

I've had one pre-ordered from a dealer for about 6 months or so now. Need to call that dealer... the credit card I gave is no longer valid... :ironic:


----------



## johndoeslo

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

These headlamps look great. Thanks so much for the tipoff. I think many people will be more interested in the minimus than the full size saint. The minimus will be substantially lighter and still offer adequate runtime for most people's uses. The saint seems a bit heavy, so I think you'd have to really need very long runtime to justify toting the extra weight (3.3 ounces vs 9.4 ounces). 

I also think we may see people stripping the head assembly out of the minimus to use as a poor man's (smart man's?) titan. If the LED color is good and it has full intensity adjustability, I don't see why anyone would want a titan over the stripped minimus (micromus?). Your thoughts?


Also, the poster of this thread misspelled the title in his/her excitement (happens to the best of us).  Just FYI.


----------



## Mr. kydex

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

Whoa! Is this the first Surefire to accept AA alkaline batteries??


----------



## Andrey

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

Any ideas why Surefire did not provide an option of red filter for headlamps?
It would make this light ideal.

May I suggest joining this thread with existing one:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/199665

Cheers,
Andrey


----------



## cave dave

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

Got my hopes up. Nothing new here. Check twice post once!



johndoeslo said:


> These headlamps look great. Thanks so much for the tipoff. I think many people will be more interested in the minimus than the full size saint.



When you buy the Saint you get all the parts to turn it into a Minimus, which makes the Saint more versatile.



Surefire.com said:


> Also included is a single-battery adapter cap that holds one lithium battery and screws directly into Saint's light assembly, replacing the battery pack/cable system and making Saint lighter.


----------



## johndoeslo

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

Thanks for the tip on getting all the parts with the full saint model. I didn't realize that. Regardless, IF I get a saint I see myself using mostly the minimus mode/version as 6 ounces is a lot of extra weight for long hikes. It may sound silly, but when you hike 12+ miles in a day, all the extra ounces add up fast. 

I still think this looks like a great overall product and am very interested. It may well make the Christmas list. :twothumbs

Any comments on the idea of using a minimus as a carry light? I think it may be awesome as it is basically a larger titan with the optic mounted on the side. 

Best,

John


----------



## souptree

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*

October of what year? :wave:


----------



## Blacksidesniper

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*



johndoeslo said:


> Also, the poster of this thread misspelled the title in his/her excitement (happens to the best of us).  Just FYI.




I fixed it.


----------



## jayhackett03

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*



Andrey said:


> Any ideas why Surefire did not provide an option of red filter for headlamps?
> It would make this light ideal.
> 
> May I suggest joining this thread with existing one:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/199665
> 
> Cheers,
> Andrey



beggars can't be choosers, and we have been begging for this for a long time.


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*



Mr. kydex said:


> Whoa! Is this the first Surefire to accept AA alkaline batteries??


 
No, no it's not! Surefire made an E2L AA light that never went into production.

Check out the link, below. (Scroll down the list, just a bit, and click away)! ....

http://www.surefirekorea.com/board/board.html?code=surefire_board2&page=2


----------



## Optik49

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*



Monocrom said:


> No, no it's not! Surefire made an E2L AA light that never went into production.
> 
> Check out the link, below. (Scroll down the list, just a bit, and click away)! ....
> 
> http://www.surefirekorea.com/board/board.html?code=surefire_board2&page=2


 

Great link I would have loved to get my hands on one of those.


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Hedlamps !!!*



Optik49 said:


> Great link I would have loved to get my hands on one of those.


 
About the nearest you'll ever come to owning one of those is a FiveMega 2AA custom body & tailcap that accepts C-series heads. I believe Nite sells those over at the MarketPlace.

(Yeah, I know; it's not quite the same. But it looks like we'll be old & grey before Surefire releases their first, official, AA compatible light).


----------



## Patriot

*Re: Surefire Headlamps !!!*

I'm looking forward to these, just bummed that it's going to be October. I take it that means at the very soonest judging by their release date track record.


----------



## sORe-EyEz

*Re: Surefire Headlamps !!!*

i was hoping the flood would be wider. the beam is butter smooth though, almost room sweeper!! :naughty:


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I've merged the new Saint thread with the long-running existing one.


----------



## mega_lumens

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Someone mentioned that the Saint can be turned into the Minimus, but on the SF site there is no indication that the Saint can take a CR123 in the head like the Minimus does. Can anyone clarify this?


----------



## digitaleos

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



mega_lumens said:


> Someone mentioned that the Saint can be turned into the Minimus, but on the SF site there is no indication that the Saint can take a CR123 in the head like the Minimus does. Can anyone clarify this?




Yes it can. It says it right at the bottom of the description on the Saint page. Here is what it says:

Also included is a single-battery adapter cap that holds one lithium battery and screws directly into Saint's light assembly, replacing the battery pack/cable system and making Saint lighter. This is the no-holds barred headlamp you'd expect from SureFire.


----------



## FlashInThePan

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

For what it's worth, I just visited Surefire.com. The flash animation on the front page says "Visit Your Surefire Dealer 8/24," and clicking on the link takes you to the Saint headlamps section of their site. (You might have to reload the page a few times to get this ad, since they also have promos for the LX2 in the rotation.)

Of course, notably absent is any mention of _which year_ that August 24th launch date is attached to... 

Still, a promising sign.

- FITP


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Just went to the site and i see what you mean, even has some back round music for the flash animation. 

Didn't know they add SOS to the headlamp.


----------



## cue003

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



FlashInThePan said:


> For what it's worth, I just visited Surefire.com. The flash animation on the front page says "Visit Your Surefire Dealer 8/24," and clicking on the link takes you to the Saint headlamps section of their site. (You might have to reload the page a few times to get this ad, since they also have promos for the LX2 in the rotation.)
> 
> Of course, notably absent is any mention of _which year_ that August 24th launch date is attached to...
> 
> Still, a promising sign.
> 
> - FITP



Yeah, i saw that too. Looks like they were talking about the Minimus... because it says the Saint Minimus is coming....


----------



## MikeF

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



cue003 said:


> Yeah, i saw that too. Looks like they were talking about the Minimus... because it says the Saint Minimus is coming....


 
It shows both models. If you mouse over "Experience" a drop down menu allows seleting Saint or Saint Minimus.

http://www.surefire.com/HS2-A-BKSaintMinimus


----------



## nbp

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

My question: 

This might be more easily accomplished with the minimus, since it's not wired, but does there seem to be any way to remove the light from the headband and pocket it, as can be done with a zebralight? After using a friends Titan, I loooooove the twisty output selector from 0-100lm. It's my favorite UI, but not widely available. The saint has it too, and if I had the option of either headband use, or take it off for handheld use, that would be really cool. It sort of looks as though it is fixed to the mounting bracket though. Thoughts?


----------



## sORe-EyEz

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

with the optics in the middle, a secure grip does not seem too straight forward.

if it can be remove from the mounting bracket, maybe a custom battery cap that is extended to take another 1 (or 2) CR123 will make the light more grip-able.


----------



## 2jzpower

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

umm you can add the saint to your cart on surefire's site now.... is it for sale already?


----------



## FrogmanM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I believe the saint will be for sale on the 24th of August. (the website stats that date for suppliers).

-Mayo


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



FrogmanM said:


> I believe the saint will be for sale on the 24th of August. (the website stats that date for suppliers).
> 
> -Mayo


 

I'm on the phone with them now....I was told mid october.


I have a camping trip I am planning in sept. in Utah and would have loved to give SF some money for a Saint.

Looks like I'll have to pick up an H30 to hold me over..


----------



## cue003

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



DaFABRICATA said:


> I'm on the phone with them now....I was told mid october.
> 
> 
> I have a camping trip I am planning in sept. in Utah and would have loved to give SF some money for a Saint.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to pick up an H30 to hold me over..



Did you ask about the Saint or the Saint Minimus? The website does NOT say the Saint is coming... it says the Saint Minimus is coming ... visit your dealers on 8/24.... that is what it says. 

So I wonder if the Minimus will come first and then the full on Saint in October?


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I asked about the Saint and the LX1.

I hope the Minimus comes out this month! 
I'll buy one!


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I just got word that it will be available soon... no exact date or details, but I will let you know when I find out


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



DimeRazorback said:


> I just got word that it will be available soon... no exact date or details, but I will let you know when I find out


 
Soon?? _Soon _from Surefire can mean anytime between now, and when Hell freezes over... And the Devil starts handing out free snowcones.


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*


----------



## flex76italy

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Minimus= early September

Saint= early November

Infos from a USA source


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Those dates are what I have as well.


----------



## DesertFox

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

My source at the local Brick and Mortar store now tells me they will have the Saint in stock September 25. I know, I know, I forgot to ask what year.


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I think that is incorrect. 

As of this past Monday the expected ship dates are <9/1 for the Minimus and ~10/21 for the Saint.


----------



## Big Dave

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Very keen on this when it arrives but can't see any info on whether the lighting unit tilts. Is this so obvious they don't need to list it?


----------



## Harry999

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Based on the video I saw it does indeed tilt up and down - a very useful function indeed. I recall they mentioned a 90 degree arc of rotation up and down. 

Harry


----------



## post tenebras

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

There's nothing listed on the SureFire specials page about the rumored Disney edition with attached ears, the Saint Minnie Mouse.:nana:


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Well, earlier on SF said the 24th of this month would give the Saint Minimus in the shops. But the 24th came and went and all that happend was that the site was changed to comming soon to a dealer near you. 
Bummer. I'm happy I didn't wait for the 24th and bought a nice McGizmo Sundrop.


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



AlecGold said:


> Well, earlier on SF said the 24th of this month would give the Saint Minimus in the shops. But the 24th came and went.


 
Once again they didn't say what year.


----------



## sORe-EyEz

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

this is bad news, the longer the delay the more likely other companies will upstage the Saint/Minimus with a simliar headlamp with similiar concept...:toilet:


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



sORe-EyEz said:


> this is bad news, the longer the delay the more likely other companies will upstage the Saint/Minimus with a simliar headlamp with similiar concept...:toilet:


Yup, bad news for Surefire. Good news for their competitors.


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



sORe-EyEz said:


> this is bad news, the longer the delay the more likely other companies will upstage the Saint/Minimus with a simliar headlamp with similiar concept...



I'm not too worried for Surefire...Fenix is going through unexpected delays with their new headlamp too. It can take a while for _any_ company to perfect a design.


----------



## OAM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I know it's been mentioned that the Saint can pretty much convert to the minimus, but does anyone know if surefire will sell the accessories seperately so you could convert the Minimus to a Saint? I like the multiple battery options of the Saint, but it seems like I could get the Minimus sooner, I'm hoping that you could buy the battery pack seperately. Any ideas?


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Highly unlikely.


----------



## matt_j

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Man that Surfire. I still have that light which had 220 lumen output, battery indicator and 10 power leves on backorder at TAD  It's been what 2 years? And now that headlamp... it looks so freaking awesome but again they messing with release date... Don't get me wrong I love SF products but the way they never keep their word on release dates is kind of wrong towards the customer. And I heard it from their rep saying: "would you rather have a perfect light late or light with bugs on time?" It is sort of true but than again what's the difference, why not put "comming soon" instead of some fugazi date, why underestimate?


----------



## sORe-EyEz

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



vtunderground said:


> I'm not too worried for Surefire...Fenix is going through unexpected delays with their new headlamp too. It can take a while for _any_ company to perfect a design.


 
that's a problem when its put in a 2009 catalog. if its still in conception (stage) its safer to keep it under wraps than disappoint potential buyers by dangling a vaporware. 

its abit similiar to overstating lumens claims.... :shakehead if its not ready for sales, or still not in production mode yet, best such lights be stated as 

SureFire: A Peek into Future Lighting Concepts



OAM said:


> I know it's been mentioned that the Saint can pretty much convert to the minimus, but does anyone know if surefire will sell the accessories seperately so you could convert the Minimus to a Saint? I like the multiple battery options of the Saint, but it seems like I could get the Minimus sooner, I'm hoping that you could buy the battery pack seperately. Any ideas?


 
from what i gather from the website's literature, the Saint can be converted to the Saint Minimus with the battery adapter, not the other way round.

maybe SureFire just may sell the corded battery pack in future? who knows? :shrug:


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



matt_j said:


> .... I love SF products but the way they never keep their word on release dates is kind of wrong towards the customer. And I heard it from their rep saying: "would you rather have a perfect light late or light with bugs on time?" It is sort of true but than again what's the difference, why not put "comming soon" instead of some fugazi date, why underestimate?


 
Wow! He actually said that to you? Oh man, that Surefire rep. is an @$$!

I would have responded with, "Can I actually get a perfect light from a company that hires so many imperfect employees that release dates are constantly having to be pushed back?"

Would have loved to have heard his response to that.

I love their lights, but Surefire's business practices are some of the worst I've seen in the industry.... Actually, they're some of the worst I've seen from any company. Only a matter of time before the quality of their lights gets effected by those business practices. Already there's a shift from the bullet-proof, reliable nature of Surefire lights to one of "Just call Surefire, and they'll send you a replacement part."

Yeah, that doesn't help you if your Surefire starts acting up while you're depending on it to help keep you alive. I'm glad I got every single Surefire model I wanted before Surefire developed a p*ss poor reputation for release dates. 

BTW, if you re-ordered a Surefire UA2; you might want to get your money back from TAD Gear. Surefire mentioned that the UA2 / UB2 project has been cancelled. The latest news is that there will be a 3-cell version of the UB2 (UB3 designation), and that it will be released in December of this year.... If a homeless man told me he could fabricate a 400 lumen light out of a beer bottle, some cardboard, and an old tube of glue; I'd believe him before I'd believe that December release date.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

The consequence of development delays pushing back release dates resulting in customer disappointment and disillusion is that SureFire are keeping very quiet regarding their new new products until they are actually ready to ship.

We are already seeing new products released without any forewarning and this will continue.

Once SureFire release the products they have shown are in development I believe we won't see any more speculative product announcement at the likes of SHOT Shows and their catalogs.

I'm sure this new approach will upset people too... :shrug:


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> I'm sure this new approach will upset people too... :shrug:


 
If those are our choices, I'd much prefer this new approach. Far better than announcing new models that aren't going to be ready for at least a year or two, or perhaps longer.

A far better solution would be if Surefire could hire someone with the ability to walk into the R&D department, review the test results for all of the up-coming new models, decide which models are close to being ready for release to the public, and then just announce those particular models.

Call me crazy, but is it really *that *hard to find an executive with a working pair of legs and a brain?


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Monocrom said:


> If those are our choices, I'd much prefer this new approach. Far better than announcing new models that aren't going to be ready for at least a year or two, or perhaps longer.
> 
> A far better solution would be if Surefire could hire someone with the ability to walk into the R&D department, review the test results for all of the up-coming new models, decide which models are close to being ready for release to the public, and then just announce those particular models.
> 
> Call me crazy, but is it really *that *hard to find an executive with a working pair of legs and a brain?


If it were that simple it would be so.
Bringing new products to market is so much more than visiting the R&D department. In fact it is once the decision has been made to take a new product to mass production that the fun starts and the delays creep in.

It's far better to release new product details once a few tens of thousands have been made and are ready to ship.


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Monocrom said:


> Surefire mentioned that the UA2 / UB2 project has been cancelled.



Un-cancelled - the UA2's will be made. UB3's will come out first though.


----------



## grnamin

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



OAM said:


> I know it's been mentioned that the Saint can pretty much convert to the minimus, but does anyone know if surefire will sell the accessories seperately so you could convert the Minimus to a Saint? I like the multiple battery options of the Saint, but it seems like I could get the Minimus sooner, I'm hoping that you could buy the battery pack seperately. Any ideas?


 
I asked an SF CS rep last week. She said that you can go from a Saint to a Minimus (tube provided in the kit), but they won't offer provisions to convert a Minimus to a Saint.


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



MattK said:


> Un-cancelled - the UA2's will be made.


 
Hey Matt.... Have you got a release date from Surefire? 

(It's funny because whatever they told you, we all know it'll be pushed back; again)!


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> If it were that simple it would be so.
> Bringing new products to market is so much more than visiting the R&D department. In fact it is once the decision has been made to take a new product to mass production that the fun starts and the delays creep in.
> 
> It's far better to release new product details once a few tens of thousands have been made and are ready to ship.


 
Agreed! Surefire should make the announcement of a new product perhaps three months before those tens of thousands are ready to ship. But towards the end of 2009, we're still waiting for new models that were announced at the start of 2008. One worthless release-date after another for nearly two years is beyond the point of unprofessional, and approaching ridiculous.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It may only take a few weeks from beginning production to amass the sorts of numbers necessary to initiate release. A lot happens in 3-months to knock back the eventual release date. It's astonishing how many times products have been 'only' 3-months away from release.


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Monocrom said:


> Hey Matt.... Have you got a release date from Surefire?
> 
> (It's funny because whatever they told you, we all know it'll be pushed back; again)!



No - they're not giving a date right now - the unofficial word is early next year though. 

Also, I have to agree with Al - a lot can happen in 3 months.


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> It may only take a few weeks from beginning production to amass the sorts of numbers necessary to initiate release. A lot happens in 3-months to knock back the eventual release date. It's astonishing how many times products have been 'only' 3-months away from release.


 
That's true. I just really wish it didn't happen so often with Surefire models. :sigh:

I never got to even hold one, but I miss the UB2. I can live with an extra cell, and just hope that the UB3 doesn't get cancelled before its out of the starting gate.


----------



## sORe-EyEz

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

anyway, personally i would head to my local authorised dealer to hold the light, handle it & have a good look at the beam profile & all before making any purchase.

its just not me to buy something i can find something to fuss about, sell it off then off i go looking for another "replacement" product.


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



OAM said:


> I know it's been mentioned that the Saint can pretty much convert to the minimus, but does anyone know if surefire will sell the accessories seperately so you could convert the Minimus to a Saint? I like the multiple battery options of the Saint, but it seems like I could get the Minimus sooner, I'm hoping that you could buy the battery pack seperately. Any ideas?



THe only way the would do that, is to sell it at a higher price

Crenshaw


----------



## PhantomPhoton

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



I'm just going to leave it at that and not say what I really think...


----------



## Lightcrazycanuck

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



PhantomPhoton said:


> I'm just going to leave it at that and not say what I really think...


 
+1


----------



## AlecGold

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> The consequence of development delays pushing back release dates resulting in customer disappointment and disillusion is that SureFire are keeping very quiet regarding their new new products until they are actually ready to ship.
> 
> We are already seeing new products released without any forewarning and this will continue.
> 
> Once SureFire release the products they have shown are in development I believe we won't see any more speculative product announcement at the likes of SHOT Shows and their catalogs.
> 
> I'm sure this new approach will upset people too... :shrug:



Why not do what is usual in the automotive business: make showcases, almost moronic prototypes? Show me the UA2 and tell me that this is only a prototype and that you are studying on making a production version. That way I'll think you're awesome and hard working on development, but not have the great expectations that I experience now time and again. I went for an UA2, UB2, UB3 and then (because non of these materialized in the last 18 months orso) for a Saint. Now I went with a McGizmo. That's 5 lights SF could have sold, and now 440 for McGizmo and these 440 are never getting back to SF again. That is lost money for them. And reputation damage. 
If they would have shown me an UA2, and said it wouldn't be for sale, just as a study in what could be done, I would have drewled all over it. If they then would have made a UB2-prototype I would have said: hmm, less my cup of tea, but still nice. When they do bring out the UB3, I would have recognized parts of the UA2 in it, see that it is a direct descendent of the UB2 and understood the development path & time. 

Serious, if I do things like SF does in my business, my client start to think I'm on the edge of a bankruptcy. That I have no money and only great idea's. But my clients, neither like SF clients, do buy great idea's.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Speak with people at SureFire and you quickly recognise the strength and pride staff have for what they are achieving - they are inspired; confident and dedicated.
It can be difficult for the energetic folks in Marketing and Sales not to get a bit over enthusiastic when peeking into the world of SureFire new product development. 
For customers a key issue seems to be presentation - if the unreleased products were in a dedicated "new concepts" section then people would find it easier to recognise these things as proto-types and all that this means.

Marketing and Sales will and do.

It is obvious that SureFire raise the bar when it comes to catalogs.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Called SF today..

I was told the Saint would be released October 21st

The Minimus has a release date of Sept. 16th

There was an anouncement over in the marketplace that the Minimus would be available 9-8-09, but was then updated and said the order was not shipped, so we can only continue to wait and see.


----------



## Optik49

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Just in time to go trick or treating


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

sounds like sf is trying to lure people in on the minimus first and then get them to buy the saint a month later


----------



## MikeF

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I haven't been lured. I have two different applications and it is great to have the same brightness and UI on two devices that allow me to select the amount of bulk rather settling for lower brightness on the smaller package. It will be great to have a small light that can fit into a pocket for EDC use and a backup longer runtime version that can also share batteries and other parts if needed. I now carry a small Petzl that uses 3AAA and a larger Petzl with more throw and longer runtime that uses AA batteris so I am forced to carry AAA and AA. With the Minimus and Saint I can carry 123s and have spares for my LX2 and my Q123^2 as well. I can also rob which ever light I may not need as much to fit whichever one meets me current needs.


----------



## Kiessling

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I have been waiting for a good and small headlamp using CR123 batteries for ages now. 
I can wait a little londer. The minimus is perfect for me. Don't need the Saint with its bulk.

If the beam is well made, that is. The UI we know. The beam will be interesting to see.

bernie


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

dont get me wrong, I want a saint, and will be buying one, I just think its funny that they release the minimus first and the saint a month later, they know people have been waiting and they hope to sell them a minimus and then the saint rather than releasing the saint first, then half the people who want the saint would just buy the full on model and call it a day. Now they'll be getting people for both modles. unless they offer an upgrade kit for the minimus, which I'm sure they will, 6 months after the release of the saint, and it will probably be like 20 bucks less than buying the saint.


----------



## MikeF

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Wow, you would almost think they were in business to make money and stay in business. :thinking:


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

like I said, I'm standing in line


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

My guess is that the Minimus is simpler - it's sort of a stripped down saint so they're getting it to market first simply because to make a Saint you have to first have a Minimus.

I wouldn't expect an upgrade kit - and even if it were to come out I assure you a Minimus + upgrade kit will not cost less than a Saint.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It seems SureFire has started to ship the Minimus

REI is the first to get stock and I'm sure that other SureFire Dealers and retailers aren't far behind.

What fascinates me about SureFire's arrival on the headlamp scene is that they've been able to bring new concepts to an established market.

As a long-term T1-TI user I've not been convinced of the utility of the Titan's UI on a key-chain EDC.
It's an altogether different situation on a headlamp - as a hands-free task light there are some many applications and situations requiring different amounts of light at different times.
I'm hopefully well-known for not admiring clickie UI's and it annoys me having to cycle through arbitrary outputs levels, flashes etc hoping to chance on a 'mode' that will have to do for what I need illuminating.
It is refreshing to simply dial up the output to exactly what you need for each task.

I can't wait for my next camping trip to Wales (likely to include climbing Snowdon by the Watkin Path in case anybody is interested)

Al


----------



## sygyzy

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Here's the Minimus at REI!


----------



## cue003

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I got a quick clarification question.... On the Saint (full blown) it will come with the piece to convert it into a minimus right? Will you also be able to remove the battery compartment at the back of the strap and such as well to convert the whole light into the minimus or is it just the front connect and the top strap that you can change/remove?

thanks


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> It seems SureFire has started to ship the Minimus
> 
> REI is the first to get stock and I'm sure that other SureFire Dealers and retailers aren't far behind.



Thank you!

I'm pretty excited, even though I'm holding out for the full-sized version. I've already started putting lights up for sale to finance a Saint.


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



cue003 said:


> On the Saint (full blown) it will come with the piece to convert it into a minimus right? Will you also be able to remove the battery compartment at the back of the strap and such as well to convert the whole light into the minimus or is it just the front connect and the top strap that you can change/remove?



From what I've read, I believe that you will be able to remove the battery compartment and convert the whole light into the Minimus.


----------



## PetesTactical

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I wonder if the minimus will run on 1 RCR. Didn't have any luck with an RCR in my Backup.


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Probably not.


----------



## Daniel_sk

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Maybe, because the same headlamp can run on 1, 2, 3 CR123A or 2AA... So the higher voltage of RCR123A shouldn't be a problem?...


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Daniel_sk said:


> Maybe, because the same headlamp can run on 1, 2, 3 CR123A or 2AA... So the higher voltage of RCR123A shouldn't be a problem?...



Unless the 1, 2, or 3 CR123As are in parallel (one look at the battery compartment should tell you if the batteries are in parallel or series).


----------



## Daniel_sk

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Oh, that's true. I think are probably in parallel, I didn't think of that.


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I contacted REI and they said they had 100+ Minimus in stock. Does anyone know why they are the only ones to have them? Am I missing something?


----------



## bullfrog

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



nmiller said:


> I contacted REI and they said they had 100+ Minimus in stock. Does anyone know why they are the only ones to have them? Am I missing something?



its available on their website - nothing about a pre-order - looks good to go...

http://www.rei.com/product/796823


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

According to them yes it is good to go. My question is why don't other vendors have them? Why REI?


----------



## MikeF

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I spoke with a C/S agent at the REI Denver Flagship Store Friday Morning. He told me they have them online only until 9/22. After that they will have them in the stores.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Looks like on the REI SF Minimus product description page the light is tagged as 'imported'. Hmmm...


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Maybe that is why surefire is taking so long to get these on the market.. They are having problems with foreign manufacturers!


----------



## EV_007

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Having the T1A, I can't wait to get my hands on the Saint. As Al mentioned, I too don't like cycling through different modes clicking away between them to get the level of light I need. I love the fact that I don't blind myself going from medium to low when needing just a little bit of light in dark-adapted eyes.

The fact that it can use AAs as well as the CR123 with smooth variable brightness levels is awesome! 

Twisting from 0 to 100 lumens should be the standard from now on for multi-level lights.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

REI asked nicely?


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Just checked Supremeco in Hong Kong, no Minimus yet...


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> REI asked nicely?




I think we all asked nicely!


----------



## Daniel_sk

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Did anyone order the Minimus from REI? A review would be good to shorten the wait for the Saint... I think I will be actually using the Saint without the battery pack (as the Minimus) but it seems to be better to have the choice... I have been waiting for the Saint for over a year now :sigh:. I wish I can take it with me on this autumn hiking trips...


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



nmiller said:


> According to them yes it is good to go. My question is why don't other vendors have them? Why REI?



Good question - our order just shipped this past Friday.


----------



## Blue72

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Are these things really imported?


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'll be dissapointed if those are imported, I doubt they are though


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



MattK said:


> Good question - our order just shipped this past Friday.


 
Matt, 

Will you have enought to cover your pre-orders? Also, when do you plan on shipping them out?

Thanks,

Nick


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Yes, same/next day that they are received. They're due Friday 9/18 so shipping that day or Monday 9/21 depending upon order load, delivery time, etc.
Please address further sales related questions to our marketplace thread as commerce related discussions are not allowed in CPF proper. LINK: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=199047


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Sorry.. will do..


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dd61999 said:


> Are these things really imported?


They are *not* imported.
REI should be correcting their site if they've not already done so.


----------



## sygyzy

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



nmiller said:


> According to them yes it is good to go. My question is why don't other vendors have them? Why REI?



Why does it matter? REI is not some fly by night operation. Their prices are competitive, offer practically an unlimited return policy (like Costco), and have excellent customer service. They are also online. What could be easier?


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I have no problems with REI. I shop their too often. They just don't strike me as a Surefire dealer.


----------



## Blue72

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



nmiller said:


> I have no problems with REI. I shop their too often. They just don't strike me as a Surefire dealer.





But surefire did not offer headlamps in the past either.

I do not know of a better mega retailer that carries a broad selection of decent headlamps than REI. Plus if Surefire is targeting the outdoor enthusiaist what better place to start for mass appeal.


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



nmiller said:


> Sorry.. will do..



No need to apologize - I just didn't want anything getting deleted. 



Size15's said:


> They are *not* imported.


I confirmed the same as well today. NOT IMPORTED. Made in Fountain Valley, CA.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



> I do not know of a better mega retailer that carries a broad selection of decent headlamps than REI. Plus if Surefire is targeting the outdoor enthusiaist what better place to start for mass appeal.


 
I was in REI's flagship Seattle store a few days ago, they were having a Labor Day Sale. It's kinda the west coast version of Bass Pro Shops.

There weren't many Surefires, maybe a 6P and a couple of Nitrolons.


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



MattK said:


> No need to apologize - I just didn't want anything getting deleted.
> 
> 
> I confirmed the same as well today. NOT IMPORTED. Made in Fountain Valley, CA.


 thats good to know, I would have been dissapointed if they had sold out and had the saint made over seas


----------



## Sgt. LED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Now where's the one with the bigger battery pack? :naughty:


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

HEY SOMEBODY BUY ONE!!!!


----------



## nzgunnie

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

So how ling until we see the Saint?

If the minimus is out, surely it's bigger brother can't be too far away?


----------



## jp2515

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dcycleman said:


> HEY SOMEBODY BUY ONE!!!!



For sure whoever pre-ordered one will put up their review as soon as they recieve theirs.


----------



## nmiller

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dd61999 said:


> But surefire did not offer headlamps in the past either.
> 
> I do not know of a better mega retailer that carries a broad selection of decent headlamps than REI. Plus if Surefire is targeting the outdoor enthusiaist what better place to start for mass appeal.





Very true. Excellent point.



I can provide a review when mine arrives from Battery Junction. I would buy one from REI but I can't pass up the free batteries and free shipping. At rei you don't get the batteries or the free shipping.


----------



## kaseri

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Does Batteryjunction actually have them in stock?


----------



## csshih

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dcycleman said:


> HEY SOMEBODY BUY ONE!!!!



I am forwarding a minimus for a friend of mine, I will try to write a review.


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I cant wait to hear about this headlamp, I've literally been thinking about it for months. I'm in construction, and work has been real spotty, but as soon as I know a big job is gonna start, that will be an immediat purchase. {assuming that they aren't crap} cant wait for a review.


----------



## Numbers

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

On the Minimus vs Saint question.
Why would it not be best to buy the Minimus and carry two extra 123's in your pocket instead of on the back of your head. This assumes of course that one does not want or need the AA configuration. I realize that there would be no over the head strap and I do note that SF indicates a runtime of 6 hours for the Saint and 1.5 for the Minimus (x3 would only be 4.5 hours on high), yet on low runtime is the same as minimus x3 batteries.
What am I missing (I just couldn't wade through the beginning of this thread having gotten bored with all of the speculation on the release date, if the answer is there I'll go back and read it all)?


----------



## Kiessling

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Maybe because you might not be in a position to change batteries ?

For me it is the minimus for size, comfort and ease of operation. It is more KISS. But I can see where one would want the Saint.

bernie


----------



## steveG

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Kiessling said:


> Maybe because you might not be in a position to change batteries ?



For sure. My Zebralight has run out of juice at some inopportune times and, while I had a backup hand-held lamp, it's a pain in the butt.

I shouldn't, but I'll likely buy the Saint and mostly use it as the Minumus.


----------



## FrogmanM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



steveG said:


> ...I'll likely buy the Saint and mostly use it as the Minumus.



+1 can't wait!

-Mayo


----------



## Numbers

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Fair enough, changing batteries isn't an issue for me as I will be using the light mostly for hands free work - not in a situation where momentarily losing light between battery changes might be critical.
I think I just saved $45, thanks.


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

High may be pushing the current demand on one CR123 to the point the efficiency drops. This is just speculation on my part. It should not be at that point with 100L. More likely is that the driver that can run at one or 3xCR123 is not as efficient at below 3V where a single CR will sag more than 3xCR's.


Numbers said:


> ... I do note that SF indicates a runtime of 6 hours for the Saint and 1.5 for the Minimus (x3 would only be 4.5 hours on high), yet on low runtime is the same as minimus x3 batteries.
> What am I missing (I just couldn't wade through the beginning of this thread having gotten bored with all of the speculation on the release date, if the answer is there I'll go back and read it all)?


Yeah, imho there was a lot of thread pollution like most SF threads.


----------



## Sean

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Numbers said:


> On the Minimus vs Saint question.
> Why would it not be best to buy the Minimus and carry two extra 123's in your pocket instead of on the back of your head. This assumes of course that one does not want or need the AA configuration. I realize that there would be no over the head strap and I do note that SF indicates a runtime of 6 hours for the Saint and 1.5 for the Minimus (x3 would only be 4.5 hours on high), yet on low runtime is the same as minimus x3 batteries.
> What am I missing (I just couldn't wade through the beginning of this thread having gotten bored with all of the speculation on the release date, if the answer is there I'll go back and read it all)?



I agree. Even if it does go dead on you, you should still be able to change the batteries in the dark if necessary. I would rather carry the extra weight in my pocket than on my head. But that's me.


----------



## London Lad

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Sean said:


> I agree. Even if it does go dead on you, you should still be able to change the batteries in the dark if necessary. I would rather carry the extra weight in my pocket than on my head. But that's me.



Unless of course you are a member of a Police / Army raid team, then it could get a bit inconvenient


----------



## Girryn

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



London Lad said:


> Unless of course you are a member of a Police / Army raid team, then it could get a bit inconvenient


In life dependent situations gear is cared for more rigorously than the average consumer will. Fresh batteries have an expected run time and the change usually occurs before they expire while it is still convenient.


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I am getting more and more interested in this light everytime I look at this thread... :shakehead


----------



## [email protected]

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Hehe, I believe you don't have a light with the Titan interface yet:naughty:


----------



## Daniel_sk

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

After thinking again, I decided I will buy the Minimus. The Saint is too big, I don't need the extra runtime, I can carry extra batteries in the pocket. I also don't need the AA compatibility (I am trying to use only one type of batteries) and I don't like the top-straps on headlamps. Plus, I saved some $ .


----------



## Daniel_sk

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Some new Minimus pictures (on the right side):
http://www.tadgear.com/shop.php?id=688


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



[email protected] said:


> Hehe, I believe you don't have a light with the Titan interface yet:naughty:



You are correct Sir!


----------



## carrot

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

If it's pouring out, having a Saint over a Minimus will keep you from having to figure out how to change the batteries without getting the inside wet.


----------



## vtunderground

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'm interested in the Saint for caving & mine exploring. For this use, I'm a little apprehensive about the recessed "business end" of the light... it looks like it could trap dirt & mud pretty easily. Does anyone know for sure what the domed lens is made of? I'm worried that if it's plastic it could get pretty scratched up from cleaning mud out from around it, but if it's glass this shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I want the full on saint model. though I will probably rarely use the battery pack, its just one of those things that would be indespensible on the occasion it was actually needed. I think Id rather spend the 40 bucks and have the extra capability


----------



## Sgt. LED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dcycleman said:


> I want the full on saint model. though I will probably rarely use the battery pack, its just one of those things that would be indespensible on the occasion it was actually needed. I think Id rather spend the 40 bucks and have the extra capability


Yep. :thumbsup:

Come on SF, figure out the battery pack.


----------



## sORe-EyEz

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Sgt. LED said:


> Yep. :thumbsup:
> 
> Come on SF, figure out the battery pack.


 
maybe its the cords that SureFire designers are worried about, hard to make cords "bombproof". :ironic:

that's why the Minimus version is :twothumbs!!


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

My Minimus came today.:twothumbs I like it. Awesome interface as we all know. The beam is very floody through the optic. Almost all flood. Mine is pretty close to the output of the gen 1 L4 I have. The low is nice. There is a good click off and a noticeable spot in the dial at 50 percent when ramping the light up. So far I like it. 









I will take more pics later but have to run.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

prime77,

Hows the beam look?....ringy?

How is the tint,....Is it white?


----------



## jch79

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Could someone look on the packaging or the unit itself and verify:

*"MADE IN USA"*
_-or-_
*"ASSEMBLED IN USA"*

The two are very different, and I read on Brightguy's website: "Designed and assembled in USA"

:thinking: john


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



> prime77,
> 
> Hows the beam look?....ringy?
> 
> How is the tint,....Is it white?



The beam is very good. No rings what so ever. The only artifact you can see is when up close you can actually see the outline of the die of the cree inside if that makes sense. I really only notice it when white wall hunting. Ah the tint. I was very worried about the tint. I am very pleased with mine. Nice warm tint leaning more towards the white than the yellow. No purple or blue at all. 



> Could someone look on the packaging or the unit itself and verify:
> 
> *"MADE IN USA"*
> _-or-_
> *"ASSEMBLED IN USA"*
> 
> The two are very different, and I read on Brightguy's website: "Designed and assembled in USA"
> 
> :thinking: john


The packaging says "Designed and assembled in the U.S.A. of domestic and foreign components. This product qualities as "Made in America" under the Buy American Act." 

My LX2 packaging says the same thing.


----------



## jch79

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



prime77 said:


> The packaging says "Designed and assembled in the U.S.A. of domestic and foreign components. This product qualities as "Made in America" under the Buy American Act."
> 
> My LX2 packaging says the same thing.



Makes sense to me - thanks, Prime! :twothumbs I'm really happy about that... it's cool that they added that second sentence. Probably due to LED's and perhaps some electronics, they are being honest and saying that it contains foreign components.

Have you tried stuffing a RCR123 Li-Ion in it? oo:

:thumbsup: john


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



> Have you tried stuffing a RCR123 Li-Ion in it? oo:
> 
> :thumbsup: john


I'm afraid I have no RCR123s to try.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Can the body with LED be angled up & down?


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



DaFABRICATA said:


> Can the body with LED be angled up & down?


Yes.


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Got mine today too.


----------



## Stage Tech

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Any package photos ??


----------



## Robertesq1

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Dang!

Ordered mine and used the cpf2006 code for 5% off. I hate you guys....


----------



## kaseri

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I do a lot of night time mountain climbing and I've been wanting a 1x123 headlamp for some time, this should fit the bill nicely. It has a simple interface that doesn't require pressing small buttons which I will appreciate once the winter climbing season begins. Trying to manipulate a headlamps buttons with heavy mountaineering gloves on is a real pain. The 50% detent seems like the proper amount of light for my application and should give me a reasonably long runtime.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



276 said:


> Got mine today too.


 



You can't just leave us with that!!

What are your thoughts?


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

We *need* beamshots!!!

:twothumbs


----------



## Kiessling

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I need that light 
Ebay is slow with this one ...


----------



## jch79

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Thanks for answering all of our questions, Prime77! :twothumbs


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



DaFABRICATA said:


> You can't just leave us with that!!
> 
> What are your thoughts?



:devil::devil:

Just kidding, 

I love this thing !!!!!!!!!!!! 

The beam is like prime77 said mostly flood there is no cree ring. In the center of the beam you can see led chip when up close i haven't used it outside yet but i will in a few when i take my dog out.

Saint Low at 8ft









Saint Minimus On High at 8ft 
Excuse the mess 





2ft from door






I am going out in the next 20 minutes or so so i will do my best to get smoe shots and better indoor ones later tonight.

Alex


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

The tint looks good.


----------



## JohnnyLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Packaging

























E1B full power at about 12 yards





Saint Minimus on high


----------



## zemmo

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'd really like to know (before I buy one), if it is so floody that one can't see very far. Enough throw for bicycle riding? How far can you see a dog in the beam? TIA for any answers.


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

My beam and tint look just like 276s. It really is all flood. It's been raining here in NC for days but its stopped this evening. Kind of like the skies parted for some nighttime Surefire fun. Here are some quick shots.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

*Does anyone have a Zebralight H30, H60 to compare beamshots to?*

It looks like the Minimus throws more and has less flood than the Zebralights.

Thanks for the beamshots and updates guys!!:wave:


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I really want one now...


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

The only thing that could be annoying is the center of the beam you see a close up of the led but on this its very very faint.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



276 said:


> 2ft from door


 



I see what you are saying about being able to see the LED on the door in this picture.

I wonder if it will be bothersome or if it won't be noticed during actual use.


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



276 said:


> The only thing that could be annoying is the center of the beam you see a close up of the led but on this its very very faint.


I agree with you there. But when I went outside you don't notice the LED chip outline at all. I have to say I really like the Minimus.


----------



## JohnnyLED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Just went on a walk with the dog. I really like how light the Minimus is. It provides great light for up close. Nice wide angle.

Johnnyled


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



prime77 said:


> I agree with you there. But when I went outside you don't notice the LED chip outline at all. I have to say I really like the Minimus.


 




Heck Yeah!!

Good to hear!

I guess any beam has flaws, but if are they not actually noticable in real world use than thats a bonus!:thumbsup:

Looks like I'll have to sell a few things to fund one of these.:naughty:....:thinking:


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Read something interesting on page 4 of the user manual. Top of page under available accessories. It states: 

The following replacement accessories are available from Surefire for the Minimus.

Replacement headband 
Breathe-O-pads
Surefire 123A lithium batteries 
*Optional battery pack (upgrades your Minimus to a longer-running Saint. *

Interesting. It seems you will be able to up grade the Minimus to a Saint. I wonder what the price will be for the battery pack.:thinking:


----------



## Sgt. LED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

 Come on Saint...............................


----------



## nosuchagency

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

thx for posting beamshots, guys. :thumbsup: i'm passing on minimus, but this gives us a good idea of what to expect from saint as well (go, go, go, surefire...).


----------



## carrot

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Man I need a Saint so bad... keep on posting guys!


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



prime77 said:


> Read something interesting on page 4 of the user manual. Top of page under available accessories. It states:
> 
> The following replacement accessories are available from Surefire for the Minimus.
> 
> Replacement headband
> Breathe-O-pads
> Surefire 123A lithium batteries
> *Optional battery pack (upgrades your Minimus to a longer-running Saint. *
> 
> Interesting. It seems you will be able to up grade the Minimus to a Saint. I wonder what the price will be for the battery pack.:thinking:


 thats cool, if I cant wait any longer, I'll just buy the minimus and get the battery pack later.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dcycleman said:


> thats cool, if I cant wait any longer, I'll just buy the minimus and get the battery pack later.


 



Thats what I did...:laughing:

While the extra runtime is nice, I have no problem changing out cells as needed and keeping a few extra 123's available.

Now hopefully it gets here before this weekend.


----------



## jch79

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Will someone try to stuff an RCR123 in their Minimus and see if it works? 
I know SF isn't always Li-Ion friendly, but who knows!
:thumbsup: john


----------



## Blue72

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

What is the brightness and runtime like on a AA baterry


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



dd61999 said:


> What is the brightness and runtime like on a AA baterry


 



We will have to wait for the Saint to be released before anyone knows.:shrug:

The Minimus only takes a single primary 123 battery.


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Man, you guys have me really close to ordering a Saint Minimus. :laughing:

With the headband removed, will it rest on its backside stable enough to use it to illuminate an area? In addition, can it swivel a full 180 degrees? Basically, if it is resting on a table with the headband removed, can you aim the beam 90-degrees from the table?

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



RobertM said:


> Man, you guys have me really close to ordering a Saint Minimum. :laughing:
> 
> With the headband removed, will it rest on its backside stable enough to use it to illuminate an area? In addition, can it swivel a full 180 degrees? Basically, if it is resting on a table with the headband removed, can you aim the beam 90-degrees from the table?
> 
> Thanks,
> Robert



The light housing rotates all the way around inside the brakets. So you could take the headband off and rotate it 90 degrees and aim it at something. 

I went on a long walk down some dirt roads lastnight with just my Minimus and LX2 and had all my bases covered for lighting needs. Any output flood and a great low and high spot beam.


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Here are some more shots of the Minimus. 





















The battery tube has double o-ring seal. The threads aren't has thick has on E-series lights.


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

with these picks, I wont be able to last much longer


----------



## bray

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

has anyone compared one against a zebralight yet? I am on the fence!


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



bray said:


> has anyone compared one against a zebralight yet? I am on the fence!


 




+1...


----------



## Andrey

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



bray said:


> has anyone compared one against a zebralight yet? I am on the fence!



With ones of 5A tint in particular: H501W, H60W.


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Right now I have no money but want a Saint. Guessing would use 2XAA Duraloops and 1xCR123 when used without the battery pack. I like the tint and hope they picked better LEDs for this light as an on going thing. Would sure hate to get angry blue for a headlamp when in the future.


----------



## Sgt. LED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'd say it has to be fine with RCR123. Well unless the battery pack it's self cut's the power down before it reaches the light.

If I had one I'd try it without any fear but I don't have one.


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'm getting very restless...


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Thought id add in another two things. First i didn't realize that with the SOS that you you can have the SOS in any brightest setting either full power or low. The second thing is slightly annoying for me since the beam on this is close to the shape of a rectangular around the four corners are these lines. I have a photo to show them up close but depending on what position the light is on your head they are either in front of you on your sides or if its tilted towards you is on your shoulders. Its just glare from the circle rings in the lense. Most of the time when i don't think about it i don't see it.







P.S. i do have a zebralight H30, will try to get pics tommorrow


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



DimeRazorback said:


> I'm getting very restless...



LOL, yeah, you and me both! I might just order one today...


To those who have received one, has anyone gotten one with a "bad" tint (i.e. overly blue or green)?

BTW, thanks for the additional pics prime77! :twothumbs

-Robert


----------



## kaseri

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I'm pleased with the tint my Minimus has.


----------



## knf

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Can someone please tell me how low the lowest setting is? Does it start at 1 lumen or much lower, like the Titan?

Thanks.


----------



## MattK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

1-100Lm


----------



## FlashlightsNgear.com

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



bray said:


> has anyone compared one against a zebralight yet? I am on the fence!


 Sure looks alot like a ZebraLight, I wonder if ZL is making it and Surefire has just changed a few things to make it Patent Pending, assembling something in the sates would be enough to say its made in the USA. I have a Browning Pro9 that sez made in the USA South Carolina to be exact, but turns out its made in Belgium and assembled in South Carolina. A comparison would be great, Iam interested in one myself


----------



## jch79

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



FlashlightsNgear.com said:


> Sure looks alot like a ZebraLight, I wonder if ZL is making it and Surefire has just changed a few things to make it Patent Pending, assembling something in the sates would be enough to say its made in the USA. I have a Browning Pro9 that sez made in the USA South Carolina to be exact, but turns out its made in Belgium and assembled in South Carolina. A comparison would be great, Iam interested in one myself



Prime77 already mostly answered this concern earlier in this thread:



prime77 said:


> The packaging says "Designed and assembled in the U.S.A. of domestic and foreign components. This product qualities as "Made in America" under the Buy American Act."



The Buy American Act is more stringent than the normal FTC definition of "Made in USA", as it's necessary for some government contracts. It states that American-made materials are necessary.

My guess is that SF puts the "foreign components" line in, due to LED's and perhaps some electrical components. But I'd be willing to bet that machining & materials are US-made.

Another more strict definition (also for gov. contracts) is the Berry Amendment, drawn out here and explained more plainly on Wikipedia.

:thumbsup: john


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Okay, I couldn't resist any longer...Saint Minimus ordered. 

I will be sure to post comments/thoughts once I receive it.


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It doesn't look like a zebralight to me the beam is totally different for one thing.


----------



## Peter Atwood

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Well this heads and shoulders above any headlamp I've ever owned. Absolutely superb. Mine has great tint and I love the smooth reostat style switch. 

I just got one of the Titans today too and that is also a terrific light.


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Is the center housing section with the optic/LED, aluminum? or composite plastic?:thinking:
Does it get warm/hot when on for a long time?

I should have one by the weekend.


----------



## EV_007

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I decided to check out the Saint as well. Love the idea of he smooth interface like the T1A. Now come on UPS, run brown run. LOL


----------



## bullfrog

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

you guys should be ashamed of yourselves, forcing me to place an order.... :whoopin: 

Very VERY excited - and I thought after a year I FINALLY had the "disease" under control - oops :devil:

This will replace my petzl e+lite in my EDC bag - I really like the petzl but, c'mon, a surefire headlamp - OH YEAH! 

Added bonus too that it can share the cr123s from my other EDC lights 

Jury is out on if I'll pick up the "Saint pack" if available - like others, I'd just rather carry spares in my pack.

:tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil::tinfoil: :shakehead


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Looking at the specs from SF on the Saint Minimus, I don't quite get their runtime numbers. Let compare a few...

Saint Minimus on Low: 1 lumen for 50 hours
E1B Low: 5 lumens for 37 hours
E1L Low: 3 lumens for 48 hours

It gets stranger... 

Saint Minimus on High: 100 lumens for 1.5 hours
E1B High: 80 lumens for 1.3 hours

It must be the whole "usable level of light" thing...

:thinking:


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



RobertM said:


> Looking at the specs from SF on the Saint Minimus, I don't quite get their runtime numbers...
> It must be the whole "usable level of light" thing...
> 
> :thinking:


If only there was an online community that could produce output/runtime charts for flashlights so their actual runtime characteristics can be directly compared. :candle:


----------



## crizyal

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



prime77 said:


> There is a good click off and a noticeable spot in the dial at 50 percent when ramping the light up.



Hmm, mine doesn't have any detents at all. Is mine different from the norm? I like the smooth format, though having a detent at 0% and 50% wouldn't be bad either.


----------



## crizyal

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



DaFABRICATA said:


> Is the center housing section with the optic/LED, aluminum? or composite plastic?:thinking:



It looks like the "front" area with the LED is composite and it is epoxyed to the back area which is aluminum.


----------



## 276

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

If you turn the dial really slow you can feel the beginning bump you have to over come ( if that makes sense) and the middle bump as well.


----------



## crizyal

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I have a Titan t1a and I can clearly feel the "bump" as it has been described. My Saint Minimus does not have that same "bump" at all.:shrug:


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Quote:
Originally Posted by *DaFABRICATA* 

 
_Is the center housing section with the optic/LED, aluminum? or composite plastic?:thinking:_



> It looks like the "front" area with the LED is composite and it is epoxyed to the back area which is aluminum.


Right. 


> Does it get warm/hot when on for a long time?


I ran mine on high for at least 30 mins the other night. I didn't notice it heat up that much at all. 



> If you turn the dial really slow you can feel the beginning bump you have to over come ( if that makes sense) and the middle bump as well.


The "bumps" at medium and at off are very noticable.


----------



## bullfrog

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

ugh just got notice that my retailer of choice hasnt received their shipment yet :candle:


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

an in depth review would be very cool:tinfoil:


----------



## jayb79

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

has anyone tried a rechargeable li-on yet?


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I got mine today!

It feels good on the head, not too heavy. The "Breathe-o-prene is very soft and lightly padded.
The knob turns nicely and I can feel the 2 detents at OFF and 1/2-way point. The entire assembly can spin freely 360 degrees. 

No complaints about the tint on mine, seems fine. The optic seems to be made of glass, so hopefully it won't scratch as easily as other optics. 
I have to wait until tonight to actually spend some quality time with it to see how I like the beam. In a semi-dark room, it throws more than the H60w or H30 and is not as floody.

Personally, I'm glad I didn't wait for the Saint. I doubt I will be in a situation where I will need that long of runtime. Swaping out the battery is simple. Now if I were into caving, climbing, winter expeditions...I could see wanting the added runtime/weight.

I'll try to get some comparison beamshots tonight of the Minimus, H60W and H30.



EDIT: BEAMSHOTS------Pics taken about 20 feet from those trees.

The Minimus seems a little brighter in the pics than to my eyes and the Zebralights seemed brighter to my eyes that shown in the pics..I had the settings locked too..:thinking:....anyway give you a gereral idea of how different the Surefires beam is from the Zebralights. 
The H30 & H60W both are very floody with no hot-spot at all.
There is a more concentrated beam from the Minimus but still floody enough for use as a headlamp. 
The Minimus works well for up close tasks but also works great for med range lighting. I'd feel more comfortable riding faster on a bike at night with the Minimus than the Zerbalights.
So far I really like the Minimus!:thumbsup: The UI is great, it feels comfortable while wearing it, and the throwier beam profile are a welcome addition to my headlamp kit.

_*H30* _






_*H60W*_ 





*Saint Minimus* 





_*Minimus-----------------------H60W*_


----------



## hurricane

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Just thought of this. Because the Saint/Minimus is kind of modular, it would be awesome if they offered a second cord length for those of us who will be using the light in really cold environments ... that way the battery pack could be worn next to a warm body i.e. remotely. Lithiums are great in the cold, but alkalines are awful. Both could offer longer runtimes if kept warm. I have two Petzl MYO BELTs and this is a great feature. Modular is so sweet. 

Thanks to all for your Minimus reviews thus far.


----------



## Afraid-of-the-dark

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

It appears you'll be able to use filters with the Saint I'm wondering if that same option will be available on the Minimus?

I hope.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Afraid-of-the-dark said:


> It appears you'll be able to use filters with the Saint I'm wondering if that same option will be available on the Minimus?



That is very promising assumption. During this entire waiting period I was thinking how to build a red filter for Saint.
Could you please share more information regarding filters for Saint?


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Beamshots added to post #528


----------



## Afraid-of-the-dark

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Afraid-of-the-dark said:


> It appears you'll be able to use filters with the Saint I'm wondering if that same option will be available on the Minimus?
> 
> I hope.


 
I believe I saw it on the list of accessories on one of the websites and boy genius me forgot to bookmark it. Sorry.  I'll keep looking to verify. Hopefully someone here will back up my overly excited rambling...
(what can I say, I've got the fever.)


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Thanks for the beamshots DaFAB!

:twothumbs


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Thanks for the pics DaFABRICATA! :twothumbs I've very excited for mine to come (FedEx says it's suppose to be delivered today).

Does it look like it would be very easy to disassemble to swap out emitters for say...a Q3 5A (not that I really have any plans to mod mine)?

Has anyone confirmed what type of emitter is being used? Since SF's SSC emitters tend to angry blue, I'm guessing its a CREE?

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## Schuey2002

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Thanks for all the wonderful pics, Guys! :twothumbs
.


Trying to resist the urge to buy one. Don't know how much longer I can hold out... :sick2:


----------



## swampwise

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

question: i'd like to have a full saint, but don't want to wait.  has anybody heard whether or not the battery pack from the full saint will be compatible with the minimus? if so, what do you reckon the chances are that it will be sold separately?

hey, a man can dream, right? :twothumbs


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

SureFire aren't ruling out offering the battery pack as an accessory so that people can use it on their Minimus.


----------



## Tempest UK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Thanks for the pics and ingo DaFAB :thumbsup: Any chance you could take a picture of a next to another light for reference? Something like a 6P, perhaps.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Tempest UK said:


> Thanks for the pics and ingo DaFAB :thumbsup: Any chance you could take a picture of a next to another light for reference? Something like a 6P, perhaps.
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


 



Tempest, Sure thing!:twothumbs

I was able to go for a nice long hike in the woods last night.
There are some trails out by the GM proving grounds in Milford. They are maintained and have some sweet stairs and bridges. Turns out its a great place to use flashlights!
The Minimus throws a lot further than the H60W or H30.
Low was used most of the time, but when on high it really lit things up farther on the trail.:thumbsup:
So far I am enjoying the Minimus. 
I have been wearing it a lot since I got it and it is very comfortable.

Here it is next to the H30, H60W, E1B, old 6P


----------



## Tempest UK

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

:thumbsup:

Thanks for the picture and write-up 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## swampwise

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

another question: if i have a fullsized saint, can i put 3 123's in the battery pack AND 1 in the front, for reserve power? because that would be flipping sweet and all the more reason for me to pre-order one NOW. :huh:


----------



## DaFABRICATA

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



swampwise said:


> another question: if i have a fullsized saint, can i put 3 123's in the battery pack AND 1 in the front, for reserve power? because that would be flipping sweet and all the more reason for me to pre-order one NOW. :huh:


 



I don't think so....the cap in the pictures for the Saint appears to be samller than the one that is on the Minimus.

I could be wrong though.


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

When the remote battery pack is used there is no space for an SF123A at the light.


----------



## vtec

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z14l35o6aE0


----------



## DimeRazorback

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Good video! :twothumbs

But bad for temptations! :shakehead


----------



## PetesTactical

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

The minimus rocks! Turns everywhere you look into daylight. It is the headlamp I have been waiting for for years. My new favorite light.


----------



## jayb79

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Has anyone put a protected rechargeable in this thing yet???


----------



## kaptein america

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Utilizing all my internal resources not to make this purchase.
Hope no sales pop up


----------



## kwkarth

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

And I still have the mythical Fenix headlamp on preorder, low these many months... Now I am tempted to go for a Minimus too!


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I received my Saint Minimus today! 
I've been playing with it this evening and it seems to be an excellent headlamp! I love the variable knob for selecting output. It feels like it is a very well made, tough headlamp. 

Questions for other owners:
- Did you receive yours with dry threads and o-rings? Mine seems to have no lube at all--completely dry. Kinda strange for a SF. 
- Does everyone else's seem to be really quite difficult to rotate the LED?

-Robert


----------



## RGB_LED

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



jayb79 said:


> Has anyone put a protected rechargeable in this thing yet???


:candle: The Minimus looks pretty good but, if it doesn't use rechargeables, then it's a no-go for me. 

The dual-fuel Saint, on the other hand, looks like a winner. But, with estimated October delivery, I'm not sure I can wait that long. :mecry:


----------



## prime77

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



RobertM said:


> I received my Saint Minimus today!
> I've been playing with it this evening and it seems to be an excellent headlamp! I love the variable knob for selecting output. It feels like it is a very well made, tough headlamp.
> 
> Questions for other owners:
> - Did you receive yours with dry threads and o-rings? Mine seems to have no lube at all--completely dry. Kinda strange for a SF.
> - Does everyone else's seem to be really quite difficult to rotate the LED?
> 
> -Robert


dry threads....Yes 
difficult to rotate LED....Yes


----------



## London Lad

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



RGB_LED said:


> :candle: The Minimus looks pretty good but, if it doesn't use rechargeables, then it's a no-go for me.
> 
> The dual-fuel Saint, on the other hand, looks like a winner. But, with estimated October delivery, I'm not sure I can wait that long. :mecry:




October is one day away !!!


----------



## Monocrom

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



London Lad said:


> October is one day away !!!


 
Surefire release dates are so worthless. We use them as toilet paper.


----------



## Marko

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



prime77 said:


> dry threads....Yes
> difficult to rotate LED....Yes



So You have to lube both, threads and the tilt mechanism. :huh:


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Whilst the Saint battery pack can accept AA batteries I've taken this to be more of a 'backup' capability in the event that SF123As can't be sourced as I suspect the performance on AAs will not be as good as on even one SF123A battery.

I guess that once it is released CPFers will perform all sorts of runtime/output tests to see how the saint performed on 1, 2 & 3 SF123A's or a pair of AA.
I'm sure people will experiment with whether rechargeable 123A batteries, and indeed LiAA or rechargeable AAs can be used...


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> Whilst the Saint battery pack can accept AA batteries I've taken this to be more of a 'backup' capability in the event that SF123As can't be sourced as I suspect the performance on AAs will not be as good as on even one SF123A battery.
> 
> I guess that once it is released CPFers will perform all sorts of runtime/output tests to see how the saint performed on 1, 2 & 3 SF123A's or a pair of AA.
> I'm sure people will experiment with whether rechargeable 123A batteries, and indeed LiAA or rechargeable AAs can be used...


 

I wonder how it might work on 2xAA compared to 1xCR123.

1xCR123 = maybe 1300-1500 mAh at 3 volts.
1xAA NiMH = maybe 2000-2600 mAh at 1.3ish.
1xAA Lithium = Maybe 2800 mAh at 1.5+ volts.


There are more chemistries and I could be a bit off on my numbers as I am no expert but it seems to me that two AA's would beat a single CR123 as it would have nearly 5000 mAh at about the same voltage.


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Woods Walker said:


> I wonder how it might work on 2xAA compared to 1xCR123.
> 
> 1xCR123 = maybe 1300-1500 mAh at 3 volts.
> 1xAA NiMH = maybe 2000-2600 mAh at 1.3ish.
> 1xAA Lithium = Maybe 2800 mAh at 1.5+ volts.
> 
> 
> There are more chemistries and I could be a bit off on my numbers as I am no expert but it seems to me that two AA's would beat a single CR123 as it would have nearly 5000 mAh at about the same voltage.



To my understanding, the Saint use 2xAA in series and up to 3x CR123 is parallel. This puts both combos at ~3.0v.

3x CR123 is going to beat 2x lithium AA, but not 1x CR123 by itself.
3xCR123 in parallel = ~ 4200mAh capacity
2xAA lithium in series = ~2800mAh capacity



kwkarth said:


> Thanks Matt,
> I went down to the local REI yesterday to look over the Minimus.
> I was not overly impressed. I'm not sure the quality went in before the name went on. I'm looking forward to the HP10. The Minimus was a letdown for me. I hope Fenix does a better job with the HP10.


Out of curiosity, what specifically did you find lacking with the Minimus?

-Robert


----------



## Kiessling

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Got mine, too ! 
Finally a real headlamp after all the waiting. I am very satisfied with the beam an dthe interface as well as the weight and feel of the unit.

BUT ... it is really difficult to tilt and the battery cap unscrews before it will move up or down. 



> I'm not sure the quality went in before the name went on.



:roflmao:
It is the best headlamp I have held so far, but then again, I don't have a Scurion or any other of the really expensive ones. This one is all about interface and beam which are perfect. 

bernie


----------



## kwkarth

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



RobertM said:


> Out of curiosity, what specifically did you find lacking with the Minimus?
> 
> -Robert



The overall construction seemed kind of "rough" to me. Mold lines, hard turning, dry as toast threads and o-rings, subjective quality of optics, quality of the beam, waay too floody for me, and not very bright.

Comparing it to my T1A, it did not seem any brighter, though the beam color was better. The quality of construction on the T1A seems superb compared to the Minimus. Overall, I just did not feel the Minimus looked, felt, or performed like $140 worth of headlamp, even from Surefire.


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Kiessling said:


> Got mine, too !
> Finally a real headlamp after all the waiting. I am very satisfied with the beam an dthe interface as well as the weight and feel of the unit.
> 
> BUT ... it is really difficult to tilt and the battery cap unscrews before it will move up or down.
> 
> 
> 
> :roflmao:
> It is the best headlamp I have held so far, but then again, I don't have a Scurion or any other of the really expensive ones. This one is all about interface and beam which are perfect.
> 
> bernie



I agree with you Bernie, the UI and beam is why I love mine! The tilting without the cap unscrewing is the Saint Minimus' only real fault that I can find with it.

-Robert


----------



## DM51

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



RobertM said:


> The tilting without the cap unscrewing is the Saint Minimus' only real fault that I can find with it


Just a guess, but maybe it will loosen up after it's been in use for a while. Worst case would be if it was _too_ loose, and flopped up and down when you didn't want it to.


----------



## Kiessling

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

The low isn't as low as the Titan, far from it, for those who depend on such a low low.

Anyone knows if the selector knob is user serviceable?

bernie


----------



## Size15's

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Somebody on another forum used a compressed air can to blow some light-weight lubricant into the dial which resulted in it becoming far more smooth.

It does seem that SureFire haven't been concentrating on well-lubricating the Minimus. Hopefully this is a batch issue which SureFire have corrected


----------



## RobertM

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Size15's said:


> Somebody on another forum used a compressed air can to blow some light-weight lubricant into the dial which resulted in it becoming far more smooth.
> 
> It does seem that SureFire haven't been concentrating on well-lubricating the Minimus. Hopefully this is a batch issue which SureFire have corrected



Hi Al,

Do you happen to have a link to this? I don't know if I would do this to mine, but I'm curious to see his or her procedure.

Thanks!
Robert


----------



## Daniel_sk

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

Received mine today (after paying 20 euro customs duty). I will test it on weekend. Threads and o-rings were dry, but nothing that Nyogel can't fix.

One thing though. The 2009 catalog mentions color filters but there is no mention of them in the Minimus manual. I hope they will release them later, because the low isn't as low as I wanted, a red filter would be helpful...


----------



## Andrey

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*



Kiessling said:


> The low isn't as low as the Titan, far from it, for those who depend on such a low low.



I had the same impression if not to say disappointment.
T1A's low is times dimmer than Minimus'.
To me the lowest Minimus setting is too bright for, say, use in a tent at night without disturbing sleeping companions.

Also I agree with Kwkarth, that overall T1A quality is better than one of Minimus.

Andrey


----------



## smokelaw1

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

I picked mine up last night. Besides the low not being quite as low as I would like (for that same 'in a tent not waking anybody up' reasons....), I really, REALLY like it. While a little bigger and heavier than my ultralight gear headlamps, I like the fact that I now can pack the same batteries/backups for my hand-held light (need some throw in the woods sometimes) and my headlamp. 

Good job Surefire. Oh, and ditto on the lube...nyogel to the rescue!


----------



## Unforgiven

*Re: Surefire Saint headlamp?*

continued


----------

