# Are department store lights better?



## LEDrock (May 27, 2014)

I didn't want to make the title too long, so here's my actual question: Are flashlights found in department stores now reaching the quality of some of the "budget" lights found online? The brands are different, and I've never actually tried any found online since I've never ordered one. Makes me wonder if I'm missing out on anything--within my price range, that is. I know I could spend near $100 and get something online. But I've never spent over $25 for a light and that was an Energizer 130 lumen from Target.

It's just that I've been seeing some pretty good lights at Walmart and Menards and am wondering if they are starting to equal the quality of online lights, or are they still lagging behind. 

One online light in particular I've been drooling over is the Fenix E12. It's about $27. Is there a department store equivalent?


----------



## StarHalo (May 27, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

The $20 Home Depot Defiant 3C 550 lumen from Christmas 2012 was really the turning point, then last Christmas they had a $30 1000 lumen model, while Wal-Mart and Lowes added their own 500 lumen models. But yeah, there are some gems out there on the shelves now..


----------



## braddy (May 27, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

I've wondered the same thing, I don't know what is in the stores because I don't visit them, and it won't replace my Fenix lights for me, but what I have wondered about, is if now I should just send friends to the store for good flashlights, rather than trying to convince them to buy something like a Fenix, which is more than they want to spend.

From reading about the lights you guys are seeing at the store, it seems that we no longer have to try and marry up our friends with high quality, high capability (expensive), online brands of flashlights.


----------



## TEEJ (May 27, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

A lot depends on if a light without regulation that dims as you use it is as good as a light that maintains constant brightness, etc


----------



## mcnair55 (May 27, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

Well i am well known for sending newbies to check out unbranded lights.Hobby lights have a high profit margin for the seller where as the big shed will work on a smaller margin as they are into shifting quantity.There are some excellent lights in the sheds and some absolute dogs as well.Well worth a look though.


----------



## braddy (May 27, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



TEEJ said:


> A lot depends on if a light without regulation that dims as you use it is as good as a light that maintains constant brightness, etc



For me regulation is a requirement, but explaining that kind of thing to non-flashlight people gets tiresome, it is much easier to know that they can get an adequate light now days, at their beloved Home Depot

Remember trying to talk them into going with LED lights? At least that is over.


----------



## LGT (May 27, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

Some of the new lights that are out in the Walmart, Home Depot etc. are surprisingly nice lights. I bought the defiant 3c 550 lumen, as mentioned by StarHalo, just to see. And it surprised me with the bright white color and lack of rings or doughnut holes. The only budget light I ever bought was a shiningbeam s-mini nw. The o-rings tore apart just opening to insert a battery. Are they as good as other budget lights? I can't answer that. But the choices that Joe homeowner has to choose from are becoming more and more impressive.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (May 27, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



braddy said:


> For me regulation is a requirement, but explaining that kind of thing to non-flashlight people gets tiresome, it is much easier to know that they can get an adequate light now days, at their beloved Home Depot
> 
> Remember trying to talk them into going with LED lights? At least that is over.


I've found lights without regulation using nimh are fine to me and if they slowly dim then you don't necessarily get the sudden blackout when the batteries hit a certain voltage threshold. I've had regulated lights that just blink out at a certain point and it is very annoying.


----------



## mcnair55 (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



braddy said:


> For me regulation is a requirement, but explaining that kind of thing to non-flashlight people gets tiresome, it is much easier to know that they can get an adequate light now days, at their beloved Home Depot
> 
> Remember trying to talk them into going with LED lights? At least that is over.




You have no need to explain to staff and in fact they would not have a clue,most lights specify the usp,s on the blister or outer packaging.


----------



## braddy (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

What staff?


----------



## PTN (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

i have found that there are so many more offerings in all stores that simply did not exist before. they are likely not the best quality but the lumen ratings have never been so high and readily available.


----------



## mcnair55 (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



braddy said:


> What staff?



Last time i looked they wore identity badges and looked clueless and in fact are clueless.In the UK i can think of 2 large retailers who employ muppets as staff as they have no idea at all about anything.


----------



## Poppy (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> Well i am well known for sending newbies to check out unbranded lights.Hobby lights have a high profit margin for the seller where as the big shed (walmart etc) will work on a smaller margin as they are into shifting (selling) large quantities. There are some excellent lights in the sheds and some absolute dogs as well. Well worth a look though.



As our friend Mr mcnair has repeatedly pointed out, the mass market, high volume producers will operate with lower mark-ups, and pass the savings onto the consumer. 

I think we are seeing that department stores are carrying lights that are a little more expensive than they used to, but that the quality (perhaps better stated as usefulness) has greatly improved. More store lights (Brinkman, Coleman, Defiant) are using Cree leds. The stores aren't pushing incans anymore. I think that the stores used to sell $5-$10 lights, now they are selling $20-$30 lights. Hobby lights as our friend mcnair likes to call them used to sell (on the average $50 and up), and perhaps they still do, but I think that they have come down to $30 and up. 

For example, I have been tempted to get a 4*aa light like the fenix LD40 or Jetbeam PA40, but couldn't get myself to spend over $60 for an AA light. Just couldn't do it. However the very similar Starry Light SA-22 for $20 will be on my loaner list if they change the driver so that it drops the PWM at the lower modes.

Mail order, Convoy and Roche lights can be had in the $ teens, they're regarded as quality built budget lights, (and in the budget category, primarily because of their lower cost).

Sooooo.... to the OP LEDrock, I think that for Joe User, the department stores, more and more, are carrying lights that are a little less costly than higher end lights, but the usefulness, for the most part, are comparable. I wouldn't be too quick to say... "just go to any department store and get any LED light" but would prefer to say that "THIS particular light is well rated by others." 

Time spent in educating your friend may be better spent in discussing battery chemistry's and rechargeable options. If they have a car charger, they should be able to weather a power outage.


----------



## mcnair55 (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



Poppy said:


> As our friend Mr mcnair has repeatedly pointed out, the mass market, high volume producers will operate with lower mark-ups, and pass the savings onto the consumer.
> 
> I think we are seeing that department stores are carrying lights that are a little more expensive than they used to, but that the quality (perhaps better stated as usefulness) has greatly improved. More store lights (Brinkman, Coleman, Defiant) are using Cree leds. The stores aren't pushing incans anymore. I think that the stores used to sell $5-$10 lights, now they are selling $20-$30 lights. Hobby lights as our friend mcnair likes to call them used to sell (on the average $50 and up), and perhaps they still do, but I think that they have come down to $30 and up.
> 
> ...




+1 on what Mr Poppy has written.We have similar thoughts on how much to spend it seems.I have problems spending £50 UK on any AA light ($84) although i have in the past not again unless it is something really special.

We are lucky in the UK to have plenty of trade stores like Screwfix, Machine Mart etc wanting to sell us tools at highly discounted prices including torch,s.Led Lenser and Streamlight are also widely available in UK trade stores.

My conclusion Hobby brands are more geared up to enthusiasts with the added wow factor but Joe Public can also have his wow factor with a decent light that will spend most of its life in a kitchen drawer or hanging in a convenient place for a fraction of the price.Never dismiss looking/using a store bought torch as some are tremendous value for money.


----------



## TEEJ (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> +1 on what Mr Poppy has written.We have similar thoughts on how much to spend it seems.I have problems spending £50 UK on any AA light ($84) although i have in the past not again unless it is something really special.
> 
> We are lucky in the UK to have plenty of trade stores like Screwfix, Machine Mart etc wanting to sell us tools at highly discounted prices including torch,s.Led Lenser and Streamlight are also widely available in UK trade stores.
> 
> My conclusion Hobby brands are more geared up to enthusiasts with the added wow factor but Joe Public can also have his wow factor with a decent light that will spend most of its life in a kitchen drawer or hanging in a convenient place for a fraction of the price.Never dismiss looking/using a store bought torch as some are tremendous value for money.



I don't know of "Hobby Brands" at department stores?

Statistically, there are no hobbiests in this sector. 

Wally World, etc, certainly would not be selling lights with hobbiests in mind, they sell to people who hear a big storm, etc, is coming, and run out to buy canned goods, bottled water flashlights and batteries. (And then return them after the storm passes), and to those who have jobs or projects, etc, that they need a light for, etc.


----------



## mcnair55 (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



TEEJ said:


> I don't know of "Hobby Brands" at department stores?
> 
> Statistically, there are no hobbiests in this sector.
> 
> Wally World, etc, certainly would not be selling lights with hobbiests in mind, they sell to people who hear a big storm, etc, is coming, and run out to buy canned goods, bottled water flashlights and batteries. (And then return them after the storm passes), and to those who have jobs or projects, etc, that they need a light for, etc.



I think we could say Led lenser is a hobby brand and probably the worlds best selling make.


----------



## TEEJ (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> I think we could say Led lenser is a hobby brand and probably the worlds best selling make.



People collect LED Lensers?

I don't think so.

I'm starting to see some home inspectors and so forth with them, as they are at least brighter than their old maglights and easier to carry around, etc....even if they do get dimmer as the cells drain, etc.


----------



## mcnair55 (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



TEEJ said:


> People collect LED Lensers?
> 
> I don't think so.
> 
> I'm starting to see some home inspectors and so forth with them, as they are at least brighter than their old maglights and easier to carry around, etc....even if they do get dimmer as the cells drain, etc.



I think we will have to disagree on this one.Not sure about US&A hobby dealers but most UK hobby dealers sell Led Lenser products.I have a few in my collection and member Ven rates his 7.2 very highly indeed.The thing is with Led Lenser they look a good buy and there marketing is the best in the business.


----------



## Poppy (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

I suppose that a fenix E12 would be considered a "hobby" branded light?
@ about $26 it is more than one would find a single AA light at department stores, I think the home depot defiant AA is about $9 however it does about 90 lumens for an hour or two, then the battery is dead. It has no modes. For my purposes, it wouldn't be a terrific power failure light unless I had a handful of eneloops, and the ability to charge them.

OTOH... the E12 has three modes.


Broad beam lens. Provides soft, even beam for close-up illumination
Output Modes:
High - 130 Lumens (1 hour 30 minutes)
Mid - 50 Lumens (6 hours 30 minutes)
Low - 8 Lumens (40 hours)

Uses one AA (Ni-MH, Alkaline) battery
Digitally-regulated output--maintains constant brightness


I like to think of my lights as TOOLS, not hobby pieces. 

Some tools are worth every penny I paid for them, others, maybe not.

I do pretty much agree with Mr. Mcnair that Joe Public will be happy for the most part with most of the better quality store bought lights. Just look at the amazon reviews of lights that we would consider ahem... crappy. One or two negative reviews, twenty positive. Certainly the argument can be made that many of the reviews are "first impressions" and are not by long time users. But many of the JQP out there, buy a light and stick it in a drawer where it may sit for weeks/months at a time.


----------



## Poppy (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

I think that the discussion between TEEJ and McNair55 is simply a missing definition of exactly, what is a hobby light? Hobby light can be so broadly interpreted that anything might be included. Someone may collect coin cell lights, or only lights that come in various colored bodies. Only 18650 lights? or rechargeable in the light lights? hmmm for example, how about the Q-beam?

Once that is clarified, there may not be a disagreement.


----------



## reppans (May 28, 2014)

*Are department store light better?*

I guess I'm firmly stuck in hobby light land as my flashlight priorities are quite niche-market even among CPF'ers: massive runtime, sub-/low- lumen, single cell, pocket EDC lights. Course I still want the versatility of super bright, powerful Li-ions yet common Alks, and I just don't like PWM after learning how to easily spot it.


----------



## braddy (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> Last time i looked they wore identity badges and looked clueless and in fact are clueless.In the UK i can think of 2 large retailers who employ muppets as staff as they have no idea at all about anything.



I was talking about friends and family, not store employees, I've never tried to educate or persuade stores and their staffs about flashlights.


----------



## mcnair55 (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



Poppy said:


> I think that the discussion between TEEJ and McNair55 is simply a missing definition of exactly, what is a hobby light? Hobby light can be so broadly interpreted that anything might be included. Someone may collect coin cell lights, or only lights that come in various colored bodies. Only 18650 lights? or rechargeable in the light lights? hmmm for example, how about the Q-beam?
> 
> Once that is clarified, there may not be a disagreement.



Well Mr Poppy i shall try.

I consider hobby lights to be the types like Fenix Nitecore and other such popular brands we see here on the forum.Lights bought by forum members appear to be used rather than kept in drawers.Led Lenser is a unique case in a way as it is sold in so many different locations and has so many friends and enemies.The enemy element comes from the Anorak wearing armchair scientists with the normal groan of "it is not regulated so therefore it is no good" which in reality is just a silly statement.Ask member Ven?


----------



## LEDrock (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

Thank you for all your replies! I still haven't pulled the trigger on a "hobby light" one would find online. There have been some in department stores that have caught my eye, but there's always something about their specs that disappoint. One example is at Menards where they have a 2AA light that uses a Cree (don't know which version) and puts out 225 lumens on high mode and I think 110 lumens on low. It costs $17.99 at my local store. I'd like to get this one, but only if it had a much lower low mode, such as 30 at most. On the back of the package, it shows run times to be something like 20 minutes on high and 40 minutes on low. Not sure how that could be accurate using a Cree of _any_ type. They don't have this one listed on their site, however.

Anyway, if I could find something at Menards, or Walmart that uses AA batteries and had insane runtimes like the Fenix E12, then I'd get it. I don't have a Lowes or Home Depot in my area


----------



## ven (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

who me :laughing:

Yes i love my t7.2 ,its a great light and serves my uses as one of the best lights i have.This is in regard to the cells,these come free,also a long run time of usable lumens.I dont go diving 2m so water proof is N/A for me,and it will certainly take heavy rain.

The gradual output on the t7.2 is hardly noticeable for a few hours in use,no 5 min step downs,just 250lm from the start,gradually dimming to around 6-8hrs of use,change cells,off i go again.Heat generated is warm,not too warm in any way due to "only "250lm (320 on burst) which is more than sufficient for my work use without dazzling myself.

Its about the right light for the right job,some hate lensers,fair play,me some are too big,over priced,others great.Its about finding the one that suits.T7.2 for TEEJ would be no good on a search/rescue,handy maybe as a back up glove box light for close up work...........maybe.Again what suits the user as the t7.2 has momentary(very useful burst ) 2 modes,high,low off simple as that. Some hate zoomable,me i find it great in work,option of flood for working,spot for looking through machine perspex guards.
I like matte too




I see bonuses of reg and un reg,un reg no sudden loss(some loose a mode though or warn being regulated)get more out of cells.....maybe vampires..........
Reg-You know what your getting for X amount of time,this can be critical in some applications but preparation is still needed with which ever light choice,be it charged cells for long run time avoiding sudden darkness or dim light as cells tired.

Pro/cons of both,dont get me wrong i like my regulated lights a lot,probably 95% of them are,ones used a lot tend to be unregulated............no exact reason,but more to do with re-charging cells is not user friendly in work.They would have to be left unattended for long periods for a start.

So no right or wrongs,just what suits needs:twothumbs

WOW long waffle
:thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo (May 28, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



LEDrock said:


> Anyway, if I could find something at Menards, or Walmart that uses AA batteries



Wal-Mart's Ozark Trail 6xAA 500 lumen model, $30. Not insane runtime, but output makes up for a lot of sins..


----------



## Sharrack (May 30, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

The 3.99 amazon shorty flashlight with the 14500 battery is my fave. Runtime is short but i carry back up batteries.
3.99 ???? That sucker shines mountainsides a long ways away and will blind attackers in a pinch!!

Home depot had the coast HL5 headlamp for 9.99 during christmas 2 yrs ago.
Picked up 4 of them.....super bright and cheap!

home depot( coast) lights are pretty good but they are creeping into the 40+ range.


----------



## TEEJ (May 30, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> Well Mr Poppy i shall try.
> 
> I consider hobby lights to be the types like Fenix Nitecore and other such popular brands we see here on the forum.Lights bought by forum members appear to be used rather than kept in drawers.Led Lenser is a unique case in a way as it is sold in so many different locations and has so many friends and enemies.The enemy element comes from the Anorak wearing armchair scientists with the normal groan of "it is not regulated so therefore it is no good" which in reality is just a silly statement.Ask member Ven?



Not AS good would be more accurate.

For example, if there are two lights, and you wanted the brightest one, and both say 500 lumens....which is better?

The regulated one is ~ 500 lumens for ~ the entire time you have it on, the unregulated one is 500 lumens for a few seconds or so until the cells can't keep up with the power drain, and the light starts to dim...and continues to slowly dim as you use it.

I think the one that keeps the same brightness is better, and that the one that gets gradually dimmer is not AS good.



I HAVE plenty of both types, and, regulated IS better for most uses.


Ironically, the lights I see that are for JUST for one long range or flood burst, are BRIGHTER when not regulated due to the losses involved, as all they are FOR is an initial punch....so dimming as the cells drain is OK for that use, as the benefit in initial brightness can compensate for it. This is only a plus for lights requiring super high drain applications.



If I had to patrol a large area, etc, I'd want either a regulated light that simply stayed as bright as needed, or, a larger non-regulated light that started out brighter than needed, so that by the end, it was still bright ENOUGH. (Bright enough to find one's Anorak at least...)


----------



## Lit Up (May 31, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



braddy said:


> For me regulation is a requirement, but explaining that kind of thing to non-flashlight people gets tiresome, it is much easier to know that they can get an adequate light now days, at their beloved Home Depot



Just send them to HD for a Rayovac Indestructible. Totally adequate.


----------



## mcnair55 (May 31, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



TEEJ said:


> Not AS good would be more accurate.
> 
> For example, if there are two lights, and you wanted the brightest one, and both say 500 lumens....which is better?
> 
> ...



Must admit most of my lights are regulated but for work purposes you get that little extra out of a non regulated light without the sudden dim,very much like my r/c hobby.Battery cars are very quick and clean to use but when the power is used they stop but when using nitro fuel you can usually coax them back to your pits with a few pops and bangs.



Lit Up said:


> Just send them to HD for a Rayovac Indestructible. Totally adequate.



And probably a real money saver.


----------



## YBCold (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

sometimes the features and configurations i see on walmart lights seem to me like flashlights designed by people who dont know about flashlights selling to people who also dont know about flashlights, like their ozark trail 750 Lumen "tactical" recharchable flashlight, walmart thinks that a tail clicky and high output makes a flashlight tactical. IMO Im still finding better quality on Ebay buying higher quality


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



YBCold said:


> sometimes the features and configurations i see on walmart lights seem to me like flashlights designed by people who don't know about flashlights selling to people who also dont know about flashlights, like their ozark trail 750 Lumen "tactical" rechargeable flashlight, walmart thinks that a tail clicky and high output makes a flashlight tactical. IMO I'm still finding better quality on Ebay buying higher quality.



Yup. Anyone can do screaming bright and cheap. Easiest trick in the flashlight industry. But to some, "better" means it has to have quality as well.


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



YBCold said:


> sometimes the features and configurations i see on walmart lights seem to me like flashlights designed by people who dont know about flashlights selling to people who also dont know about flashlights, like their ozark trail 750 Lumen "tactical" recharchable flashlight, walmart thinks that a tail clicky and high output makes a flashlight tactical. IMO Im still finding better quality on Ebay buying higher quality



Do not even worry about it you are not there target market.Joe Public wanting a torch to sit in the kitchen drawer or where ever will do them,if it gets lost so much the better as Joe will buy another.You can buy what you like on the flea as this thread is about store bought lights.


----------



## treek13 (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> You can buy what you like on the flea as this thread is about store bought lights.


Actually, he is the one speaking directly to the point of the thread if you read the original post.



LEDrock said:


> ...so here's my actual question: Are flashlights found in department stores now reaching the quality of some of the "budget" lights found online?...


----------



## TEEJ (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

The worst of the eBay crap is worse than the worst of the dept store crap. The eBay stuff tends to be geared to the lumen output at all costs (NO cost to seller, etc...) so a dept store might be worried about selling stuff as FLIMSY as some of the eBay stuff, as the eBay stuff is more likely to set someone's house on fire, and the dept store stuff is generally safer, if dimmer.

So, lights like the "Indestructible" (Which has in parenthesis the word "Virtually"....proceeding the word Indestructible.....) ARE reasonably well made, and, which do produce light of various quality beam characteristics, likely to be quite satisfactory to the great unwashed....who tend to be overwhelmed with joy at a flashlight not rattling and needing to be banged on periodically to get it to go on again, producing white light instead of a dim yellow donut, etc.

I bought some to check them out, and I can't use them for work because of the beam characteristics and the massive size/weight to output ratios, making them extraordinarily inefficient to USE compared to other choices...but, they work in a reliable if overall lackluster fashion.

Lowes has had Coast and their Cobalt lights for example, and, now, they carry Surefire. Home Depot has their "Defiant" line, which is analogous to the "Indestructible" line of lights....and who ALSO now carry Surefire.


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



treek13 said:


> Actually, he is the one speaking directly to the point of the thread if you read the original post.




Actually chappy you can look at it two ways buying on-line from vendors such as on cpf etc or taking a huge risk with all the fakes and dodgy scammers on the flea.


----------



## TEEJ (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> Actually chappy you can look at it two ways buying on-line from vendors such as on cpf etc or taking a huge risk with all the fakes and dodgy scammers on the flea.



I think its just the two sources have different strategies in selecting products.

The flea bay stuff CAN include super cheap and potentially dangerous crap, that MIGHT produce high light out out for a bit before it breaks....and the stores are now selling some decent quality lights, that tend to be working, and, which tend to be less likely to burn your house down or provide high quality lighting...

...so the trade off is build quality vs light quantity, on the cheap end of both sources.'


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



TEEJ said:


> I think its just the two sources have different strategies in selecting products.
> 
> The flea bay stuff CAN include super cheap and potentially dangerous crap, that MIGHT produce high light out out for a bit before it breaks....and the stores are now selling some decent quality lights, that tend to be working, and, which tend to be less likely to burn your house down or provide high quality lighting...
> 
> ...so the trade off is build quality vs light quantity, on the cheap end of both sources.'



And as you know i advocate to always have a look in a store,once the likes of Fenix etc can get there stuff in the sheds we will all benefit big time.


----------



## TEEJ (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> And as you know i advocate to always have a look in a store,once the likes of Fenix etc can get there stuff in the sheds we will all benefit big time.



I always have looked local first...and then end up going online, but not eBay.


----------



## ven (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

I use ebay for certain items(usually not lights) and touch wood ,right research etc proves well when dealing on there no matter what the purchase.

I believe that surefire is available at walmart now..............sure this can only be a good thing ,getting better made lights to the public and probably cheaper too.

One thing with stores is the ease to return any goods,getting a proper look or even feel for the light before buying.Given the choice and if i had a local store that sold lights at reasonable prices(not ridiculous mark ups) then it would be store for me every day of the week.

No where local sell surefire/nitecore/sunwayman/eagletac............ok ok i could go on :laughing: but many shops in the UK do.Problem for me is then the cost......

Will give one example,in UK i can buy a tk35ue for $186 ............yep thats correct.

I can knock an easy $50 or more off that by importing..........so after 10 lights an easy $500 saving(works out a lot more than that as i chose a cheaper light as an example)

Thats my method in the madness .

Lensers here seem to be popular in certain shops,again quite expensive depending on shop and where it is in the country.

On cheaper makes in easier to get to shops(for me) my choice is limited,yes have screwfix etc in trafford park but tesco etc and the one near me i only have to look at the packets and most are open,lights look past their best before buying. The ones i have seen are fine for a kid,camping etc,if it gets lost or broke no issue.......

So for me personally and here in the UK where i live,if i want a decent light i have to order on line and import(or pay 50%+ more from an on line UK shop).

Luckily i have vinh=win win :twothumbs

Not seen any indestructible lights..............if i did i would try their AA and D lights for sure:thumbsup:


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



ven said:


> I use ebay for certain items(usually not lights) and touch wood ,right research etc proves well when dealing on there no matter what the purchase.
> 
> I believe that surefire is available at walmart now..............sure this can only be a good thing ,getting better made lights to the public and probably cheaper too.
> 
> ...



Mapmuppet sell some Olight,you can order on-line and collect in store.


----------



## ven (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> Mapmuppet sell some Olight,you can order on-line and collect in store.




WOW x2 I did not know that,2nd WOW is expensive ..........the sr51 I can buy for £36 with discount ,so an almost £80 saving ........

m22 warrior I can get for 1/2 the price .......

Internet importing still for me,I would rather wait 2 weeks 

For the $ equivelent , the m22 warrior is $135 at Maplins 

Obv if convenience and an imediate requirement for one of those specific lights, then a judgment call on the buyer paying that.

Thats shocking........


----------



## TEEJ (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> Mapmuppet sell some Olight,you can order on-line and collect in store.



Is mapmuppet a "hobby store" or a "trade shop"?


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



TEEJ said:


> Is mapmuppet a "hobby store" or a "trade shop"?



Neither it is a retail store called Maplins that sell electronics very much like Radio Shack,we also have a large electrical chain called Currys and both specialise in employing total muppets as every question you ask they look at you totally clueless and make up the answer which they think sounds the most convincing and i kid you not.


----------



## treek13 (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> Actually chappy you can look at it two ways buying on-line from vendors such as on cpf etc or taking a huge risk with all the fakes and dodgy scammers on the flea.


You don't seem to actually read anyone's posts. I am not sure you even read your own. 

You chided YBCold for being off-topic and you were wrong. The original poster starts the thread and determines the subject which in this case is budget lights found online compared to lights found in stores.

I pointed this out to you without using any snide, belittling, or insulting language. At some point, it would be nice if you could just cut that crap out of your posts.


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



treek13 said:


> You don't seem to actually read anyone's posts. I am not sure you even read your own.
> 
> You chided YBCold for being off-topic and you were wrong. The original poster starts the thread and determines the subject which in this case is budget lights found online compared to lights found in stores.
> 
> I pointed this out to you without using any snide, belittling, or insulting language. At some point, it would be nice if you could just cut that crap out of your posts.



Chappy i very much read the posts i participate in diligently and i am sorry you find my posts not to your liking,to clear things up we mean store lights,on line vendors and flea bay bought lights.I hope that meets with your approval.


----------



## braddy (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

i don't understand your posts either, for instance that one, the OP was asking about the difference between "department store" (he seems to have meant box stores) and online lights, wasn't he?



> Are flashlights found in department stores now reaching the quality of some of the "budget" lights found online? The brands are different, and I've never actually tried any found online since I've never ordered one. Makes me wonder if I'm missing out on anything--within my price range, that is. I know I could spend near $100 and get something online. But I've never spent over $25 for a light and that was an Energizer 130 lumen from Target.
> 
> It's just that I've been seeing some pretty good lights at Walmart and Menards and am wondering if they are starting to equal the quality of online lights, or are they still lagging behind.


----------



## TEEJ (Jun 1, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



braddy said:


> i don't understand your posts either, for instance that one, the OP was asking about the difference between "department store" (he seems to have meant box stores) and online lights, wasn't he?



That's exactly what the OP was about.

Unfortunately, sometimes, when a train passes through the station, its noisy, and the wind starts some people's Anorak's flapping, and, well, the older people find that the flapping Anoraks can drown things out, and they miss-hear the conversation.


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 2, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



TEEJ said:


> That's exactly what the OP was about.
> 
> Unfortunately, sometimes, when a train passes through the station, its noisy, and the wind starts some people's Anorak's flapping, and, well, the older people find that the flapping Anoraks can drown things out, and they miss-hear the conversation.



Nice saying Mr TEEJ,will save that for a rainy day.


----------



## LEDrock (Jun 2, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



braddy said:


> the OP was asking about the difference between "department store" (he seems to have meant box stores) and online lights, wasn't he?



Yes, that's basically what I was asking about. I guess the spirit of my question is to know whether some of the better lights found in places like Walmart or Target or Menards are equal to the same priced lights found online by manufacturers such as Fenix. For example: The Fenix E12 is around $30 online. Can I pay $30 in a local store and get something that is equal in quality and value?

BTW, I've seen those huge lights made by Coast and Bushnell at Walmart that can put out huge lumens, but they are too big to be practical for me, and their "low" modes aren't exactly low. 

There's even a light at Menards that uses a Cree, 2AA batteries and looks just like a Rayovac Sportsman Extreme (which I have a couple of) and it claims 225 lumens on high, and 110 on low. It costs $18. I'd jump on it if it had a low of no more than 25 lumens, but that's not the case. It also claims a run time of 20 minutes on high and 40 minutes on low. I'm scratching my head about those claims. At least those are the specs on the package in the store. Looks just like this one, but the specs are completely different: http://www.menards.com/main/electri...ghts/3w-led-tactical-2aa/p-1705704-c-6314.htm


----------



## dss_777 (Jun 4, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

Unlike some, my "hobby" isn't finding the cheapest version of some light that is barely adequate for the task at hand, with the lowest tolerable quality build. My hobby is getting the best tools for the job. 

"Low price" and "good value" aren't the same thing.

The market has clearly advanced in offering decent lights at decent prices. However, there's still a metric ****-ton of junk out there, in all the usual online and brick-n-mortar places.

To weed out the junk, and find those decent lights at decent prices, you have to be a good consumer. To be a good consumer, you have to be informed, and that takes time spent, and places like CPF. Once you engage here at CPF, you're another hobbyist, by definition. Admit it, we all wear anoraks around here.



What was the question again?


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 5, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



dss_777 said:


> Unlike some, my "hobby" isn't finding the cheapest version of some light that is barely adequate for the task at hand, with the lowest tolerable quality build. My hobby is getting the best tools for the job.
> 
> "Low price" and "good value" aren't the same thing.
> 
> ...




+1 A really good truthful reply,what colour is your Anorak.? (mine is blue)


----------



## Poppy (Jun 5, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> +1 A really good truthful reply,what colour is your Anorak.? (mine is blue)



Only ONE!?
Doesn't the addage..."Two is one, and one is none" hold true for anoraks? :nana:


----------



## mcnair55 (Jun 5, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



Poppy said:


> Only ONE!?
> Doesn't the addage..."Two is one, and one is none" hold true for anoraks? :nana:




Just put my order for a work Anorak in and two company ties,they have stopped the shirts lol.I had do a refund on an Led light today that i sold a customer in January because it has started to flicker,bet you on return they just bin it.


----------



## dss_777 (Jun 5, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> +1 A really good truthful reply,what colour is your Anorak.? (mine is blue)



Mine was bright orange- got it in the early 70's, was some UK brand meant for sailing, and had an attached whistle. The fabric didn't breathe at all- I think it was rubber coated nylon. While it was very effective at keeping out the rain, if you moved in it at all, you'd get soaked. Thank goodness for Wilbert and Bob Gore. 

I still think of it fondly, as it was from a time when some very interesting and exciting things were happening. 




CPF content: Being a huge fan of Colin Fletcher, the accompanying flashlight from that era was (of course) a 2xAA Rayovac with a little .25w incan. bulb. Might have been all of 10 lumens...


----------



## PierceTheNight (Jun 10, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

A family member recently purchased three rechargeable Ozark Trail flashlights from Walmart. I think the flashlight bug bit him. After examining the lights, they are quite good for the price, although they do not level up to a high-end flashlight. The biggest one has an XM-L U2 and has a very high light output from a 2x18650 battery pack. The days of incan Maglites cluttering store shelves are over.


----------



## gravelmonkey (Jun 10, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*



mcnair55 said:


> Just put my order for a work Anorak in and two company ties,they have stopped the shirts lol.I had do a refund on an Led light today that i sold a customer in January because it has started to flicker,bet you on return they just bin it.



Through work I've requested a couple of the cheapie returns destined for the scrap/recycling/bin, so far only managed to fix 1 out of 4. If they were just cheapies, I think the bin is the best place for them! 

Back on topic, I think we are just starting to see some decent offerings in department stores as the technology filters down from us crazies to the general public; things are only going to improve over the next couple of years, but I expect it to be undertaken in a bit of a 'half-assed' cost saving approach- expect woeful heat sinking abilities etc..


----------



## Tac Gunner (Jun 22, 2014)

*Re: Are department store light better?*

I have started looking more at what Walmart carries now that they have revamped their light section. Not bad general use lights and if they break I can return them easier.


----------



## starz1 (Oct 10, 2014)

I got one from Walmart and all I can say is... not impressed...


----------



## besafe2 (Oct 11, 2014)

starz1 said:


> I got one from Walmart and all I can say is... not impressed...



Same here & please don't tell any one lmao.


----------



## mcnair55 (Oct 11, 2014)

besafe2 said:


> Same here & please don't tell any one lmao.



I wager Fenix will make a full on assault to attack the retail market and grab some serious market share from Led Lenser and Maglite.


----------



## TEEJ (Oct 11, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> I wager Fenix will make a full on assault to attack the retail market and grab some serious market share from Led Lenser and Maglite.



I hope so, now that even SureFire is on the brick and mortar store shelves, it would be nice to see Fenix too.

From what I can tell, in the US at least, most people in Walmart, Home Depot, etc, HAVE heard of Maglight, but not of Lenser or Fenix, etc. 

Lumens, lux, cd, mah, are just blah blah blah. They look at the size of the light and assume the bigger one is brighter, the smaller ones are dimmer, and the same proportionally for the prices.

The armored looking ones "seem less likely to break", and, as MOST people's experiences with el cheapo lights is that they stop working before the first set of alkaleaks has even finished corroding their guts out...something that appears better made is attractive.

So putting a lot of rubber around the light sells....and after that, its just hitting the size/price points.

A smaller, lighter yet brighter longer lasting better made light is a tough sell, as its difficult to get the average consumer to absorb your pitch in the 10 seconds they might devote to "research" as they scan the shelves for a light "about that big for about that price" that rings right for them.

With essentially a $15 light screaming that its "Indestructible" across its packaging, next to a much smaller Lenser for $50 that says "300 Lumens!" - they don't really know how to compare them. A flashlight is a flashlight, and the $15 one says its indestructible, so, why pay more for a smaller light with an obscure claim about some term with no known meaning attached to it, when you can get one that can't break?

TRY to explain that the light that comes out of one flashlight is somehow better than the light that comes out of another flashlight....its like explaining the third dimension to a Flat Lander.


----------



## snowman3 (Oct 11, 2014)

> Can I pay $30 in a local store and get something that is equal in quality and value?


Sure, but you would have to do some digging on both sides. You would have to dig into the specifics of the online light as well as the local dept store version. The online stuff would have a better chance of having old threads and track record though. So easier to dig up the info.

I think the neat thing is how much better dept store lights have gotten the past few years. Lots of tech advances at the high end has trickled down to high-volume/low-margin marketplace. So the odds of getting something decent when grabbing a light off the shelf is pretty good. It won't compete w/ today's high end. But just like phones + computer equip, today's mass-market was "high end" 3-4yrs ago.


----------

