# Poor Man's FM1909 ($1 bulb)



## Techjunkie (Dec 15, 2009)

Hey all,

I just made an awesome discovery. Too cheap to pony up the big bucks for an FM1909 bulb (and other accessories required with purchase), I did some experimenting with some long life 6V bi-pin bulbs and three AW IMR 26500 in a Mag 2D with Kiu socket. I'm pleased to announce that my gut was right. The 2000hr Hikari 6V 20W G4 bulb, JC5607, like it's big brothers, can handle some serious overdriving.

On three 26500s measuring ~12.4V open pack after testing, this bulb was pulling ~5A with no  and no complicated setup, just direct drive.

I don't know what kind of bulb life to expect pushing it so close to the envelope, but at just over a dollar a bulb, I don't care. At 60W of super white light, this setup is a Philips 5761 (and Mag85) killer at least for output.

_(On a similar note, the 100 hour Philips 20W 6V G4, PH7388, unlike the 5761, can handle two IMR batteries at full open pack 8.4V and output appears slightly brighter then the 5761 driven at 7.9V without all the hassle of drivers or thermistors or battery conditioning.)_


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## bigchelis (Dec 16, 2009)

Where is this bulb for sale and where are the beamshots:whoopin:



Please:candle:



EDIT: I forgot to mention my FM1909 pulls 5.60A at the tail with 3 IMR C cells in a 2D hosts. No soft-start and just short spring mod with metal reflector and UCL lens.


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## csshih (Dec 16, 2009)

oh huh. they're on ebay at pretty cheap prices.!! 

search 
*Hikari Halogen 20W JC G4 6V FHE/ESB bulb*


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## kramer5150 (Dec 16, 2009)

:thumbsup: Great detective work!!

Gotta get me a bi pin adapter next!!


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## Conte (Dec 16, 2009)

Damn. What's it like running at 6 volts? Or 2 cells ?

You are defiantly not batting 60 watts tho. 
From my experience, (I've done alot of "under load" voltage testing"
cells almost always drop to their rated voltage under average load.
Heavy load, is going to drop is less then that. At least 3.6v a cell. 

In your case at about 5 amps . . . I'd say abotu 45 - 50watts. 

Still, that a hell of an Overclock. 

It's because of this voltage sag that you can do things like this. 
Sometimes by time that bulb has juiced the battery for the current it needs, the voltage sags to much it runs into normal operating perametres, lol. Where as a less bulb will .

It reminds me of an experiment I did, and also a similar discovery I made. 

The experiment was; I decided to try a 2.4 volt PR bulb using a 3.2volt Lifepo4 battery. I figure, 2 alk D-cells are 3.0v, 0.2v over shouldn't blow it. 
But 
This is what prompted me to do the under load experiments. 
Turns out a pair of weakling Alkaline cells will sag down to 2.4 - 2.8 volts with even only a pitiful PR bulb. Not even krypton.
On the other hand, when loading the "LiFE" cell with a higher output 2.4v Krypton bulb, about 0.9amps, it sagged just enough that the bulb could handle it. 

The similar experience I have was; years ago I bought these Miner headlamps from a surplus store for $5 each. No battery. 
They came with these oddball 4v 1.25a Halogen HPR bulbs. 
Within their rated voltage they were rather dim so I never took them very seriously until just recently. 

After reading about overdriving on CPF, and doing my voltage sag experiments, I decided to take a leap of faith and whak this little bulb with 6.6volts off a pair of LiFE cells. I was reluctant to do so, cause they are so oddball, I figured I'd "collect" them. But I have 2 so why not. 

Sure enough, it took it like a champ, and bam. 9.6watts, with output matching a Mag Charger.
I've done various runtime tests. And been using the bulb in various flashlights almost like an EDC for the past 2 weeks. Still no 

I want more of this bulb to run in my Fultons that I power with 2x 26650 LiFE cells, but the funny thing is, I can't find out what bulb it is. Nothing seems to match it. Closest I can find is the HRP44 @ 1amp.
Even the manufacture website of the headlamp specifies the HRP44.
So I ordered a couple of HPR44's to try and see if they are the same. 

What you have discovered is pretty kick ***. 
I did search, I can grab a 10 pack of your bulb off ebay. 

Might be a good option for me in a Mag85 as the WA bulb is hard for me to get. I'm in Canada. Unless its on Ebay or I can get it from a CPF member I'm SOL unless I want to pay $20 for shipping off the supply websites you guys know and love. 

Watch about a year from now people are raving about Mag mods using your bulb


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## bigchelis (Dec 16, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> :thumbsup: Great detective work!!
> 
> Gotta get me a bi pin adapter next!!


 

Kramer5150,

I just purchased the 10 pack from Ebay and at $14 dollars they are a bargain, even if all I get is 10 hours:laughing: I am not saying if it will get 10hours just pocking fun at the likely scenario


Well get that bi pin kit because I got 2 or more pro-bono comming your way.

bigC


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## csshih (Dec 16, 2009)

I have a mag 3D bipin light I can part with cheaply if you need one kramer.. it'll even include a 10.8V (9 cell nimh) battery pack .. which you can charge with a hobby charger..
all you need to do is supply a better reflector as the one i have in there is uglyyyy.


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## TheInvader (Dec 16, 2009)

I ordered some Hikari JC-5043 bulbs recently.
They are 12v and pull about 4 amps when pushed to 20v, outputting 4,000 lumens.
Pushed to 104w, they are pretty white, about 5000-6000k.


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## kramer5150 (Dec 16, 2009)

BI PIN adapter INCOMING!!!

I'm thinking a mag 3D host + 3x26650 cells... hopefully no  
Better add some borofloat to the mix.

How close is this setup to melting the OEM mag PR tower?

thanks Craig for the offer... let me scope everything out, I am leaning towards IMR-Lithium cells right now.


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## kramer5150 (Dec 16, 2009)

Techjunkie said:


> _(On a similar note, the 100 hour Philips 20W 6V G4, PH7388, unlike the 5761, can handle two IMR batteries at full open pack 8.4V and output appears slightly brighter then the 5761 driven at 7.9V without all the hassle of drivers or thermistors or battery conditioning.)_



I think this is the same bulb used in the Ultrafire WF-500.

pill assembly:
Link1

Bulb
Link2

WF-500
Link3

IMHO paired with IMR 18650 cells, this is one of the better DX lights, incan or LED. The switch quality is questionable, although being a twisty it should be able to handle the current.


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## Techjunkie (Dec 16, 2009)

bigchelis said:


> Where is this bulb for sale and where are the beamshots:whoopin:


 
I got mine from Bulbtronics for $1.15 each.



Conte said:


> ...
> You are defiantly not batting 60 watts tho.
> From my experience, (I've done alot of "under load" voltage testing"
> cells almost always drop to their rated voltage under average load.
> Heavy load, is going to drop is less then that....


 
Have you ever done any load testing with AW IMR26500? I have experimented with them plenty, and I'm telling you, under ~5A load there's barely any sag at all. These things can sustain massive load unlike any other battery I've ever seen. Conservatively, I'm seeing 50+ Watts, probably more like 55+.


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## Techjunkie (Dec 16, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> ...(I'm thinking a mag 3D host + 3x26650 cells... hopefully no
> Better add some borofloat to the mix.
> 
> How close is this setup to melting the OEM mag PR tower?


 
I went with the three AW IMR cells and the 2D host for two reasons. 1: that much light from a little 2D is freaky fun. 2: I trust the AW 2300mAH 26500 cells to sag less under load than the Batteryspace 4000mAH 26650 cells.

I'd recommend going with a Kiu tower instead of the plastic mag post and bi-pin adapter. This sucker gets plenty hot. I'm using plain DX/KD glass by the way.




kramer5150 said:


> (Speaking of the PH7388) I think this is the same bulb used in the Ultrafire WF-500...


 
Actually, the PH7388 is the same bulb used in the WF-600. DX recently began selling the WF-600 lamp for use in the WF-500 assembly. (That's how I discovered it.) The original WF-500 filament is smaller and gives tighter focus, but less output.


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## Kestrel (Dec 16, 2009)

csshih said:


> oh huh. they're on ebay at pretty cheap prices.!!
> 
> search
> *Hikari Halogen 20W JC G4 6V FHE/ESB bulb*


Searched ebay this morning but couldn't find anything like this at all? 

Edit: OK, Google helped out - found the ebay listing which has ended. There were only 5 units. :-(

Edit #2: Per LL's post here, and the post above by Techjunkie (which I missed when I read this thread ealier ) they are available at Bulbtronics for $1.15 each.

Edit # 3: Do you think that this bulb be a near-optimal replacement (i.e using 8xAA) for the discontinued WA1166 whoops, *WA1164* - albeit considerably brighter than a Mag66 whoops I meant *Mag64*?


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## mvyrmnd (Dec 16, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> I think this is the same bulb used in the Ultrafire WF-500.
> 
> pill assembly:
> Link1
> ...




Thanks for those links! I have a WF-500, and these bulbs look much better than the stock ones. Just ordered me a few!


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## Techjunkie (Dec 16, 2009)

Kestrel said:


> Edit # 3: Do you think that this bulb be a near-optimal replacement (i.e using 8xAA) for the discontinued WA1166 - albeit considerably brighter than a Mag66?


 I'm not familiar with the specs of the WA1166 and I don't have access to Lux's charts right now (proxy), but I can say this, before going full blast with three IMR, I tried this bulb with only two or two plus a C sized NiMH which is comparable to running it on 8AA. It was still impressive, probably in WF-500 territory, but only half as bright if even that much as on 3 IMR cells. Basically, this bulb is completely underrated at 6V until you consider the 2000hr life estimate at that voltage.


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## Kestrel (Dec 16, 2009)

Whoops sorry I meant the WA1164 / Mag64, not the 66.


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## Conte (Dec 16, 2009)

> Edit: OK, Google helped out - found the ebay listing which has ended. There were only 5 units. :-(


Lol, yeah, Probably sold out due to a sudden raise in demand after the release of this thread.



> Have you ever done any load testing with AW IMR26500? I have experimented with them plenty, and I'm telling you, under ~5A load there's barely any sag at all. These things can sustain massive load unlike any other battery I've ever seen. Conservatively, I'm seeing 50+ Watts, probably more like 55+.


I haven't worked with IMR's yet. I have a selection of LiFe cells which are just as robust, if not more. I actually did some testing on them after this post, out of curiosity. And yeah, 50 - 55 watts sounds about right.

I've noticed that when you overdrive a bulb just right its Lumen per Watt ratio increases a bit, making it seem brighter then its power consumption. 
Like referring to my experience with the HPR44 bulb running at 9.6 watts that matches an 11watt MagCharger bulb.



Have you tried running the bulb at just 6 - 6.6 volts ?


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## Techjunkie (Dec 16, 2009)

Conte said:


> Have you tried running the bulb at just 6 - 6.6 volts ?


 
I tried it at 8.4-9.6V open pack and it was still plenty bright (about half as bright) but a much warmer color. I would not recommend it for lower voltages. A 100hr bulb that can't handle this level of overdrive will certainly outperform this bulb at 6V (ex. 5761). For 8.4V, I'd recommend the PH7388.


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## Conte (Dec 17, 2009)

Cause I run Lifepo4 cells I run alot of 6volt rigs. 

I'm actually trying to find myself the poormans magcharger bulb. 
I find that 11watter hits the sweet spot for my everyday use.
Good balance of output and runtime.


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## Kubbie (Dec 17, 2009)

Techjunkie said:


> Hey all,
> 
> ...I did some experimenting with some long life 6V bi-pin bulbs and three AW IMR 26500 in a Mag 2D with Kiu socket. [/I]



New to this, so excuse me if I'm asking something obvious. Never built, modded a light, but got an itch. I was looking into getting AW's Mag D Incan Driver, (so no need for the Kiu socket, correct?) and 3 of his IMR 26500's. 

Secondly, this will fit a 2d host? Will I have to mod the spring some? Add a metal reflector and a glass lens and I'm good?

I'd like more of a thrower, but not ready for the $ on a deep heads yet...


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## Techjunkie (Dec 18, 2009)

Kubbie said:


> New to this, so excuse me if I'm asking something obvious. Never built, modded a light, but got an itch. I was looking into getting AW's Mag D Incan Driver, (so no need for the Kiu socket, correct?) and 3 of his IMR 26500's.
> 
> Secondly, this will fit a 2d host? Will I have to mod the spring some? Add a metal reflector and a glass lens and I'm good?
> 
> I'd like more of a thrower, but not ready for the $ on a deep heads yet...


 
:welcome: 
Everything you said is good, although, the beauty of this $1 bulb is that it can take direct drive from 3 IMR batteries with no need for an expensive module. The bare Kiu socket is much cheaper than AW's incan driver. If you're going to use the incan driver, then you've left poor man's territory already so you might as well use a more "deluxe" bulb. Yes, three IMR26500 will fit a Mag 2D if you remove the anodizing from the inside of the tailcap with drain unclogger and make a short spring to fill the gap between the last battery and the de-ano'd tailcap bottom. I use a few coils cut from the original spring. For metal reflector and glass lens, I use parts from DX. I use the P7 MOP reflector and then file (dremel) off the threads and I use the plain 52mm glass lens. The only major expense for my torch is the $45 worth of batteries. Total cost for everything in my case is < $80.


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## Conte (Dec 18, 2009)

AW Incan driver comes with the socket and does drop right into a 2D host.

I have one I love it, the ability to turn down the light comes in handy. 
You can dim it for looking at stuff up close without blinding yourself, turn it up a bit for general use, then top it off for the long throw.

The deep reflectors Fivemega sells are only about $40-$45 tho, considering all the others are $20 I think its worth holding out till you can afford it. 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the IMR 26500's fit in a stock in a 3C host ? An actual Cell is 25500, but I've squeezed 26mm cells in a Sotck C cell mag before. Its a tight fit, but it does work. 

Otherwise, just as Techjunkie said, you'd have to mod the 2D host. 
I just tried to drop 3C cells in my 2D and its a no go with the stock spring. 

PS: An Incan driver for a C-Mag is a few bucks cheaper and the mentioned reflectors will fit in both C and D mags.


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## bigchelis (Dec 18, 2009)

With a 2D Mag you do need to modify the spring and tailcap, but thats it. Then I used fivemegas bi-pin kit at $20ish and FM1909 bulb (now I have these $1 dollars on the way). 

With a KD V3 $12.99 reflector it doesn't look soo nice due to mine being the smooth version. I should have gotten the MOP one.

UCL lens is $6 at KD too and thats it.


If you want a super thrower, yes you have to purchase a FM 2.5in Throwmaster or his 2in Deep reflector. I personally like the 2in deep better even though it throws less. It just is a ton smaller than the Throwmaster. They both make the FM1909 and ROP H bulbs look like lazer beams in the sky, but they add up in $$$ real fast.

bigC


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## bouncer (Dec 19, 2009)

Are these the same bulbs by Higuchi ?

http://www.dallaslightbulb.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

they also have the G6.35 ones 

http://www.dallaslightbulb.com/hig-jc5059-pr-1345.html


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## Benson (Dec 19, 2009)

Conte said:


> I've noticed that when you overdrive a bulb just right its Lumen per Watt ratio increases a bit, making it seem brighter then its power consumption.
> Like referring to my experience with the HPR44 bulb running at 9.6 watts that matches an 11watt MagCharger bulb.


Yeah, that's a continuous effect -- the hotter it runs, the whiter the light output, and therefore the more efficient (because a greater percentage of the light is visible, vs. "useless" infrared). Just like LEDs, although for an entirely different reason, higher color temperature means more efficient.



Techjunkie said:


> I use the P7 MOP reflector and then file (dremel) off the threads


 No need, they sell a practically identical reflector but with no threads EDIT: for a pill. See sku.12229. As you probably realize, they're not really very efficient reflectors for incan -- since they're designed for an LED that throws all its light in the forward hemisphere, it's ok to truncate the parabola practically right at the focus, and leave the base flat. For a hotwire, since a bulb throws light (almost) uniformly in all directions, you end up losing nearly 1/2 the light when focused tightly. If you're already putting together a DX order for your light, it may make sense just to throw one in, for simplicity's sake, but I'd recommend one of the incan-purpose Mag reflectors from KD if you're shopping for a cheapish reflector (yeah, 3x as much, but still free shipping = ~50% the higher-end options when bought alone), or better yet a Modamag M2 if you can get enough of an order together from The Sandwich Shoppe to justify shipping.

EDIT: Just hit me, you're probably talking about removing the ~50mm threads at the top, not the threads at the bottom for the pill (in sku.13803).


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## Mjolnir (Dec 19, 2009)

Any updates Techjunkie? Have you blown any bulbs yet?


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## Techjunkie (Dec 20, 2009)

bouncer said:


> Are these the same bulbs by Higuchi ?
> 
> http://www.dallaslightbulb.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1
> 
> ...


 
The first link didn't work, but I searched for JC5607 and found what you were talking about at http://www.dallaslightbulb.com/hig-jc5607-pr-1285.html

If the picture is correct, then no, that's not the bulb. The Hikari bulb has a transverse filament whereas the picture on dallaslightbulb's site for the Higuchi bulb shows an axial filament. I'd call to see if the pic is correct and if it is, order a few 'cause the focus on that would make nicer hotspot. The overdrive is not a guarantee though 'cause I tried other 6V 2W 2000hr bulbs that coudn't handle the overdrive. I'd order a few for myself, but the $10 minimum order is a deal beaker for me. Maybe after someone verifies the overdrive capability, we can get a group buy together. *Update:* I just found that Higuchi bulb on Bulbtronics, where I got the Hikari bulbs and Bulbtronics picture shows a transverse filimant, not axial. Interestingly, it's the same price and spec, so who knows, maybe it's exactly the same.



Benson said:


> ...No need, they sell a practically identical reflector but with no threads EDIT: for a pill. See sku.12229. As you probably realize, they're not really very efficient reflectors for incan -- since they're designed for an LED that throws all its light in the forward hemisphere, it's ok to truncate the parabola practically right at the focus, and leave the base flat. For a hotwire, since a bulb throws light (almost) uniformly in all directions, you end up losing nearly 1/2 the light when focused tightly. If you're already putting together a DX order for your light, it may make sense just to throw one in, for simplicity's sake, but I'd recommend one of the incan-purpose Mag reflectors from KD if you're shopping for a cheapish reflector (yeah, 3x as much, but still free shipping = ~50% the higher-end options when bought alone), or better yet a Modamag M2 if you can get enough of an order together from The Sandwich Shoppe to justify shipping.
> 
> EDIT: Just hit me, you're probably talking about removing the ~50mm threads at the top, not the threads at the bottom for the pill (in sku.13803).


 
Yes, I was talking about the pill-less 12229 and removing the 53mm threads. Someone else on CPF mentioned what a nice round hotspot it gave the PH 5761 and he was right. I have KD v1 and v2 Mag MOP reflectors and that DX 12229 blows them away for the 5761 IMO. I also tried the KD equivalent of DX 12229 and was very disapointed that it was very different (deeper & hotpot less tight). Also, for an even larger filament bulb (Osram 64440s), I found that better than any of the above KD/DX parts was the reflector from a WF-500 lamp assembly with the bottom ground off and the hole reamed wider (and the 53mm threads ground off).



Mjolnir said:


> Any updates Techjunkie? Have you blown any bulbs yet?


 Everything but the Hikari, but I should mention that I have yet to try the Hikari with hot batteries right off the charger. I usually let 'em rest/cool off before use.


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## Kestrel (Dec 20, 2009)

For the folks here who aren't following it yet, there is another conversation going on about this bulb in Lux's Destructive Incan Bulbs thread.

I find this bulb pretty exciting, this will be only the second incan I've put together after an ROP (I dislike Mags longer than 2D). After Lux posts his data, I'll have to decide between 3xIMR26500 and 8xEneloop. :thinking: I don't want to do a soft-start, so maybe 8xEneloop...


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## Linger (Dec 21, 2009)

I ordered a set from ebay, reading the graphics on the package pictured behind the bulb to confirm maker.
Searching through bulb and lighting stores, many wanted to say Canada was an international order and my 5 bulbs was $493 dollars short of the minimum required order.
Anyone got a source to set up a GB?


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## Techjunkie (Dec 21, 2009)

OK, first  happened. I just tried three fully charged IMR batteries hot off the charger and also removed the plastic edge from the bottom of the Mag switch to allow the flat topped IMR battery to make direct contact with the positive spring. I was formerly using a 9mm diameter magnetic spacer (against AW's recommendation) to create a nipple on the top battery. Between the fresh charge and the removal of the magnet, I think it was more than the bulb could handle. I still think this is a killer combination of batteries and bulb (no pun intended), but I now realize it makes sense to condition the batteries using a bigger bulb first, like the Hikari 12V 35W bulb, to take pack voltage down a bit first. Based on success with 12.4V open pack (and magnet) before, I'm thinking 12.3V open pack (4.1V per battery) is safe territory. *Update*: I've just conditioned the pack down to 12.28V right out of the torch, then waited for the 35W bulb to cool and the batteries to bounce back a bit. After reinstalling the original JC5607 I was using initially (for the poof-test below, I used the one sample I had with an off-center filament) the battery pack had recovered to 12.35V. On that pack, the bulb is holding steady at 4.92A draw measured at the tail cap and no poof.







Also, for what it's worth I had one of the other brands of bulb that I tried left over and after the Hikari didn't pop on the 12.35V pack I tried the Eiko bulb and it did go :




(Eiko bulb to avoid: http://www.bulbtronics.com/Search-The-WareHouse/ProductDetail.aspx?sid=0035569&pid=WKJCD6V20WH20). Hikari bulb definitely takes more abuse.

Oh, by the way, Happy International Flashlight Day! (Dec. 21st).


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## Conte (Dec 21, 2009)

Seems a quartet of LiFe cells is out then.

Man, I'd really be curious as to find out what voltages its running at under load. 

How many of these bulbs do you have ? Or, how easy are they for you to get ?

I'd be curious to try these. Run some tests. If someone was willing to arrange to send me some that would be cool.

I don't have IMR cells to work with tho, only LiFe. 


PS: Of all the mods I've see mentioned in which to convert a mag for use with flat top cells, I've yet to see someone simply stretch the spring. 
I did that. It'll slip out of its cup a ring or two then works brilliantly. . . so far.


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## Techjunkie (Dec 26, 2009)

Conte said:


> Seems a quartet of LiFe cells is out then.
> 
> Man, I'd really be curious as to find out what voltages its running at under load.


 

Not necessarily. LuxLuthor tested some LiFePo4 C cells that download made and they sagged to below 3.0v each under a 5 amp load. If the same is true of 18650 LiFe cells, then that could be a killer combo (and cheaper than 3 IMR). Lux's C LiFe test here.


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## bigchelis (Dec 26, 2009)

Hi folks,

I just got my Poor Man's Hikari Halogen Lamps 6v, 20watts:thumbsup:

I tested 3 IMR C cells 26500 = 3.96v each and got 4.77A at the tail


EDIT: I just took my 3 IMR C cells and charged them at 4.16v each.

I got 4.85A at the tail.


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## ma_sha1 (Dec 27, 2009)

Anyone got beam shots against Mag85?


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## bigchelis (Dec 27, 2009)

ma_sha1 said:


> Anyone got beam shots against Mag85?


 

I still cant find my camera, but I feel inclined to let others in on how I broke 2 of them already.

I tried using the FM 2in deep reflector with cam and I broke two of them this way. I then tried it in a 2.5in throwmaster and it focuses crappy with black around the edge of the hot spot. I need to push the lamp in deeper, but I cant. This was the issue I had with the FM1909 and the throwmaster, but with the FM1909 I just cut the legs a bit and pushed it deeper into the bi-pin kit. This trick didn't work here.

Now with the 2in deep I took off the cam and it focuses perfectly and the bezel goes almost all the way down:thumbsup:

I haven't tried the KD V3 since I sent mine to a fellow member to get strippled. Maybe Kramer5150 can take beamshoots once he gets his and try it on his KD V3 smooth variant.

bigC


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## Techjunkie (Dec 27, 2009)

ma_sha1 said:


> Anyone got beam shots against Mag85?


 
The WA1185 has a smaller filament, so it will focus to a smaller hotspot. Looking at Lux's charts, and both bulbs at 12V Vbulb, the JC5607 cranks out ~2X the lumen. Comparing the two, I'd expect the JC5607 to yield a larger, brighter hotspot.


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## choppers (Jan 6, 2010)

Maybe I missed it but could someone link me to the corrrect bulb?

I am running 3 AW 26500 cells... 
Thank you,


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## Linger (Jan 6, 2010)

I'd be in for a buy if you'll re-send them to canada for me. I can paypal you instantly. Most online stores think I should pay $50 shipping, which is silly when i've recieved bulbs from Litho123 in an old cassett case, and bulbs from DX in bulb wrap.


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## LightJunk (Jan 10, 2010)

Can I use this bulb for this set up? FM bi pin socket for M6 & 3X17650. Never mind. I've found the answer.


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## Kestrel (Jan 18, 2010)

I've been wanting to try this bulb out on 8x NiMH in FM's 8xAA holder in a bored Mag 2D - Lux's data suggests that this bulb should do ~1500 lumens on 8x NiMH with a pretty decent safety margin (~9.6v on 8x NiMH compared to Lux's flash at 12.1 v). FM has no plans to produce more of these holders due to lack of interest (see my post here). I think this is one of the best ways to drive this bulb, perhaps if enough people ask in his thread he might reconsider? :candle:


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## Linger (Jan 18, 2010)

You're right, it's a great way to drive the bulb. I've got a [email protected] 2d/8aa and with 8duracelle2650 or 8 eneloops the bulb rocks.
Unfortuntately if you've been following, my 1st set of bulbs came encased in little reflectors which weren't up to the huge light or heat output: lots of light spilt out the bottom and the glass started going cloudy.
It's great for the bulb but I fear it might be a bit hard on the cells, iirc the drive was over 4amps on Lux's charts.
ps. Modamag has an 8x holder at the shoppe


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## Kestrel (Jan 19, 2010)

Linger said:


> You're right, it's a great way to drive the bulb. I've got a [email protected] 2d/8aa and with 8duracelle2650 or 8 eneloops the bulb rocks. [...] It's great for the bulb but I fear it might be a bit hard on the cells, iirc the drive was over 4amps on Lux's charts.


Yes, 4.4 amps at 9.5v. 


Linger said:


> ps. Modamag has an 8x holder at the shoppe


Sweet, I'll have to check that out, thanks for the tip. :huh:
I have one of the Modamag 6xAA holders but I think that FM's is a little nicer (albeit more expensive).


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## Linger (Jan 19, 2010)

yeah...4.4A ouch. iirc I get 3.8A on the wa 1164 and I feel for those little cells. But those extra amps have to be going some-where, so the JC5607 could really be kicking out some lumens. Need to get an un-potted one so I can see how it looks with a real reflector.
I've been looking at those FM packs for months. I still haven't picked up that hobby charger though so FM pack charging isn't an option yet. Two sets through the stock eneloop charger and a $1.59 bulb is a real strong arguement that you can do this hotwire stuff w/o much custom gear.


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## Kestrel (Jan 19, 2010)

Linger said:


> Modamag has an 8x holder at the shoppe


Any idea on how well the springs in the Modamag holder would take the ~4.5 amps going to this bulb? From the associated modamag thread, it sounds like the holder is designed for 20 amps, so I guess the springs should be fine. :thinking: However, I bet the resistance would really add up, that's a lot of springs in series - one nice thing about the FM holder is the tab-type contacts.

So I guess, to summarize my 70+ words written in the above paragraph: :shrug:
LOL


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## fivemega (Jan 19, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> Any idea on how well the springs in the Modamag holder would take the ~4.5 amps going to this bulb? From the associated modamag thread, it sounds like the holder is designed for 20 amps, so I guess the springs should be fine. :thinking: However, I bet the resistance would really add up, that's a lot of springs in series - one nice thing about the FM holder is the tab-type contacts.
> 
> So I guess, to summarize my 70+ words written in the above post: :shrug:
> LOL



*I offered that spring type regulated battery holder in 2004 for first time here then yellow nonregulated (9.6V) here and for obvious reason stop offering and selling them.
Manufacturer claim them good for 1.2A which is barely enough for non hotwire use. I have tested them with WA1164 and takes 3.2A while that bulb really needs much more current to shine at 9.6 Volt.*


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## Linger (Feb 1, 2010)

I used this bulb, the JC5607, with 3xAW IMR 26500's and softstart.


Wow

It outshines a car headlight and lit up my urban street like I've never seen. It was 3:00am and as soon as I saw how bright it was I became uncomfortable shining it down the street

Well done TechJunkie, this bulb is hot.


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## bigchelis (Feb 1, 2010)

I did the OTF readings using my 10.5in Sphere made by MrGmanlovecpf


Here you go:Using my 2D Mag with 3 IMR 26500 AW cels....

1034.6----------1 sec
897.7-----------30 sec
893.1------------1 min
872.3------------2 min
772.3------------3 min


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## Linger (Feb 2, 2010)

Bigchelis
What voltage were your cells at to start (and end?) Can you confirm those #'s as correct? I presume you've read Lux Luthor's chart for the bulb. Also, I've used the bulb. Your numbers seem low. Very low. And it doesn't make much sense for comparisons, example triple xpe expected ~700l , my ssr-50 should be pushing 800l, 8AA WA1164 reading 3.9A at the tail.
what say you?


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## ma_sha1 (Feb 2, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> I did the OTF readings using my 10.5in Sphere made by MrGmanlovecpf
> 
> 
> Here you go:Using my 2D Mag with 3 IMR 26500 AW cels....
> ...




Surpricing, those #s is similar to mag 85, or maybe even lower than Mag 85?

Do You use a Control?

For example, same flashlight with known lumens, you read it every time to make sure it's correct,
before reading the new light? If this Control/reference light readings shifted, then you apply a correction factor.


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## bigchelis (Feb 2, 2010)

Linger said:


> Bigchelis
> What voltage were your cells at to start (and end?) Can you confirm those #'s as correct? I presume you've read Lux Luthor's chart for the bulb. Also, I've used the bulb. Your numbers seem low. Very low. And it doesn't make much sense for comparisons, example triple xpe expected ~700l , my ssr-50 should be pushing 800l, 8AA WA1164 reading 3.9A at the tail.
> what say you?


 

The cells were 4.12V each and the current at the tail cap was 4.88A or so..

I did test a Electrolumens 3P7 drop-in and it did close to 1000 OTF lumens. The other 3 P7 drop-in MrGman tested was a custom build by Mac Customs or ModaMag and it too was 1130~1200 OTF. Both Mags were DD and powered by 3 AW li-on cells.

Sorry folks, but it is what it is. I actually expected close to 1800 lumens, but considering all the WA1185 tested so far have all been around 700~1100 OTF turn-on lumens I find my numbers spot on.



I can re-test once I get another fresh 2D Mag (mine had the switch spring issues). I will re-test with the initial voltage and current and then see what they are at 3 or 5 minutes. My cells are the RED IMR AW 26500's..


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## bigchelis (Feb 2, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> Surpricing, those #s is similar to mag 85, or maybe even lower than Mag 85?
> 
> Do You use a Control?
> 
> ...


 

Not yet,

I have 5 or 6 lights as controls that are D26 style and I will put at least one of those in just to make sure the same OTF readings right before I do the next readings. Good idea if I may add....:thumbsup:

I will do that for the next readings, but I will add that I did test my #1 control light and it is the same exact # every time. I have tested it 4 times on different days and I get the exact same OTF readings. I will do it right before I start testing other lights as this is what I was not doing.

Thanks,
bigC


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## ma_sha1 (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks!

If this is true, then this bulb is a lot less efficient than mag 85,
which put out similar OTF #s with a lot less amps.

Also, this has bigger filament, so it won't throw as far as the mag 85.
I was starting to fell obligated to make a light with this bulb, but I'll stay with my mag 85 for now. 

On another note, you may want to look into the posibility of if your detector is getting maxed out?
Let's say, if you put two mag 85 side by side, do you get ~2000 lumens if each one turns on at ~1000?


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## Linger (Feb 2, 2010)

BigChelis,
Thank-you for the response.
Your testing [email protected] observed proper resistance mods and all that right?
Something isn't adding up here.

-Could my max'd [email protected] with AW softstart be delivering a significantly stronger current to the bulb?
-How consistent is jc5067 hotwire performance?
-Disregarding beam pattern, my jc5067 spanks the WA1185, tops my wa 1164. I wish I had identical reflectors for a better test.
Of course we know that my eyes do not provide precise measurement of lumens. Your contribution is extremely interesting, even for what it teaches me about my own perception.


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## bigchelis (Feb 2, 2010)

Linger said:


> BigChelis,
> Thank-you for the response.
> Your testing [email protected] observed proper resistance mods and all that right?
> Something isn't adding up here.
> ...


 

My 2D Mag; which is what I used for the poor-man FM1909, the real FM1909, and WA1185 has no soft-start and no resistance mod done to the tail. The spring is super short and the IMR 26500 cells fit well into the D tailcap. 

I was considering doing a resistance mod to the spring, but I may get the FM 3 26500 Mag body, which would not require it and be a good hosts. This is the 2d Mag that is relatively new and has the spring go out, from what I think may be too much heat.:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead

So as of now, I have no working Mag hosts


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## Techjunkie (Feb 3, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> My 2D Mag; which is what I used for the poor-man FM1909, the real FM1909, and WA1185 has no soft-start and no resistance mod done to the tail. The spring is super short and the IMR 26500 cells fit well into the D tailcap.
> 
> I was considering doing a resistance mod to the spring, but I may get the FM 3 26500 Mag body, which would not require it and be a good hosts. This is the 2d Mag that is relatively new and has the spring go out, from what I think may be too much heat.:shakehead:shakehead:shakehead
> 
> So as of now, I have no working Mag hosts


 
I'm curious to know the numbers put up by the real FM1909 you have. Also, shouldn't the 3 P7 module put up more like 2700 Lumen?

On a side note, does your 2D mag use a bi-pin adapter or a Kiu socket? I recommend the kiu socket - it takes a bit of handy work to install compared to using a bi-pin adaptor, but it's got better heatsinking and eliminates the resistance of the mag post spring and 4 unsoldered junctions. You lose the quick cam-based focus with it though.


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## bigchelis (Feb 3, 2010)

Techjunkie said:


> I'm curious to know the numbers put up by the real FM1909 you have. Also, shouldn't the 3 P7 module put up more like 2700 Lumen?
> 
> On a side note, does your 2D mag use a bi-pin adapter or a Kiu socket? I recommend the kiu socket - it takes a bit of handy work to install compared to using a bi-pin adaptor, but it's got better heatsinking and eliminates the resistance of the mag post spring and 4 unsoldered junctions. You lose the quick cam-based focus with it though.


 

After helping MrGman test numerous P7 Mag builds I can tell you that the lights that claim 2200~2500 OTF lumens have all fallen short. The only tripple P7 build that did good was the LeD ZEP 3P7 drop-in for my M6. It did 1700 turn-on and was at 1500 at 3 minutes. The other 2 were the Mag P7 tripple builds and they both did 900~1100ish. I wish they would have produced at least 1500 OTF on turn-in, but I have noticed that 20 watts of power in Mag 2D size lights is really pushing the limits and you can cram tons of LED watts, but the end results may not be tons of lumens.

Here is a post I put up in the incan section hope it helps:

The 1185 w/ 3 IMR 26500 cells: These are the OTF readings and it didn't go Well, we tested the FM1909 to drain the cells a bit before we tried those exact cells on this WA1185. I may try them topped off, but I have to gather the courage first.

*1080.0 1 sec*
*1007.7 30 sec*
*973.1 1 min*
*953.1 2 min*
*922.3 3 min*
*901.5 4 min*

*The WA1185 w/9 enelops:*
*716.2 1 sec*
*643.8 30 sec*
*619.2 1 min*
*607.7 2 min*
*606.2 3 min*
*606.9 4 min*


*Here is the FM 1909 OTF readings at 30 seconds. I did not do 1sec~29sec; my meter couldn't read it untill the 30 second mark. The hosts was a 2D w/ 3 IMR 26500 cells. No resistance mods or soft-start. I used the same hosts and cells for the WA1185.*

*1538.5 30 sec*
*1440.0 1 min*
*1386.2 2 min*
*1353.8 3 min*


*The other previously tested WA1185 by MrGman at the San Jose, CA BBQ was a Mag build with 3 AW black C cells: *It did a little less OTF then with mine and 3 IMR C cells, but at least these cells don't require a bit of use before using them. 

*Welsh Allen-1185____Maglight__________3 AW C LI ION_____1042,_**__1 sec* 
__________________


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## mrartillery (Feb 26, 2010)

Thanks for this thread!

Just bought 10 of them on ebay, shipped, for the price of one new 1909 ($17), they may not last long but at least they're cheap:rock:

Bought them from this dealer if anyone else is wanting some, best price i could find http://cgi.ebay.com/G4-JC-Type-Halo...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item517dfc898c


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## Techjunkie (Feb 26, 2010)

I need two of the three IMR 26500 batteries that I was using to power the JC5607 to power an SST-50, and I can't bear to buy another $30 worth of batteries just to keep running this $1 bulb, so now I'm hunting another bulb that I can run on two (4.2V) Sony 26650VT without  ('cause conditioning the cells for the Philips 5761 is a pain). Right now I have my sights set on some 2000hr 6v 35W axial filament bulbs, similar to the Tungsram 56580, the Osram 64430/64432S. I'll let you all know how that pans out.


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## Databyter (Feb 26, 2010)

I find alot of bulbs that are "JC type" whatever that means, that are g4 bi pin 6V 20 watt bulbs, many with centered filiments in thier pictures, however most of them are brands other than Hikari, or in some cases it's impossible to determine the brand.

I have not been able to find the exact model number mentioned anywhere.

I am not really interested in a non centered filiment version, but I might be interested in a different make of the same spec bulb which is centered, as long as it can be over-driven. 

Is this on par?
http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID=10490&Ref=Light+Bulbs&RefId=14

EDIT: Ok I found some sources for the actual Hikari bulb. Filiments pictured are centered but are probably just representative, http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=JC6V.20W.G4 Minimum purchase of these is about 25 Bucks, or at this price 10 bulbs. I'm not sure if MrArtillaries bulbs he linked are the same thing or I'd say his price is better. These are $2.74 Ea.


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## Databyter (Feb 26, 2010)

Shortened down my long windedness to this simple question.

Is using the 9aa to 3D solution inferior to 3 IMR26500's for either this bulb or the 1185?

Runtime, overall brightness?


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## bigchelis (Feb 27, 2010)

I tested a WA1185 with 9 Eneloops in a 12.6V pack and it was a lot less lumens. Plus; I got lucky and topped off 3 IMR C 26500 cells at 4.21V each and with no soft-start my WA1185 worked.

Here are all my WA1185 test combos so far:
*2D Mag w/bi-pin kit_____WA1185__________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell __1246.2_____ 1 sec*
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185___________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell______1007.7______30 sec
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185___________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell______973.1_______1 min
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185___________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell______953.1_______2 min
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185___________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell______922.3_______3 min
*3D Mag w/bi-pin kit_____WA1185____________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack ________716.2____1 sec*
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________643.8____30 sec
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________619.2____1 min
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________607.7____2 min
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________606.2____3 min
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________606.9____4 min
*Surefire M3 w/bi-pin kit__ WA1185___________ 3 IMR 16340 4.21v w/3.22A_______627.7___1 sec*
Surefire M3 w/bi-pin kit____WA1185______________ 3 IMR 16340 4.21v w/3.22A__________527.7____30 sec
Surefire M3 w/bi-pin kit____WA1185______________ 3 IMR 16340 4.21v w/3.22A__________486.2____1 min
Surefire M3 w/bi-pin kit____WA1185______________ 3 IMR 16340 4.21v w/3.22A__________486.2____2 min
Surefire M3 w/bi-pin kit____WA1185______________ 3 IMR 16340 4.21v w/3.22A__________484.6____3 min

*Megalennium w/bi pin____ WA1185 Frosted____3 AW 18650____________________727.7____1 sec*
Megalennium w/bi pin______ WA1185 Frosted_______3 AW 18650_______________________619.2_____30 sec
Megalennium w/bi pin______ WA1185 Frosted_______3 AW 18650_______________________561.5_____1 min
Megalennium w/bi pin______ WA1185 Frosted_______3 AW 18650_______________________573.1_____2 min
Megalennium w/bi pin______ WA1185 Frosted_______3 AW 18650_______________________534.6_____3 min


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## Techjunkie (Feb 27, 2010)

Databyter said:


> Shortened down my long windedness to this simple question.
> 
> Is using the 9aa to 3D solution inferior to 3 IMR26500's for either this bulb or the 1185?
> 
> Runtime, overall brightness?


 
Yes, inferior in terms of output. Nominal voltage of the IMR pack is the same as the NiMH pack, but the IMR pack's Vout is higher than the NiMH pack because the IMR pack sags significantly less, due to fewer contact points and less internal resistance in the IMR pack.

One advantage that the 9AA pack has over the 3IMR pack is that you won't  the bulb with it. The IMR pack needs to be conditioned down a little for the Hikari bulb and even more for the WA1185 to avoid popping it.


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## mrartillery (Feb 27, 2010)

Databyter said:


> I find alot of bulbs that are "JC type" whatever that means, that are g4 bi pin 6V 20 watt bulbs, many with centered filiments in thier pictures, however most of them are brands other than Hikari, or in some cases it's impossible to determine the brand.
> 
> I have not been able to find the exact model number mentioned anywhere.
> 
> ...



I emailed the seller before ordering, he confirmed that these were hikari brand, theres also another company that sells them for around $1.30 each, their site is here http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lampESB.html


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## Databyter (Feb 27, 2010)

mrartillery said:


> I emailed the seller before ordering, he confirmed that these were hikari brand, theres also another company that sells them for around $1.30 each, their site is here http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lampESB.html


Thanks man, that is good news,let us know if the filiments are centered too, if one of us can find a supplier who has a more centered batch it would be worth even a bit more.
*
Now about my M*G85 build!
* 
By the way, I put a soft start (AW switch in my M*G 85 last week, I never topped off the battery, and it seemed brighter but nothing earthshattering, although MUCH more usefull with the lower levels and more run time. I didn't get a chance to really charge the pack full up until tonight.

Now this M*g 85 has always been about the same or a bit dimmer in Lumens (hot spot to hotspot) than my TK 40 which is one of the reasons I suspected my build had some resistance problems or was underpowered. I did do the tailspring fix and the tower spring fix but did not do the other switch mods'

*Well OMG**!!* When I fired it up after resting the pack a bit tonight, (which hasn't usually been necessary in my light but I was helping my daughter with her hampster cage) I beheld the sun!

On low the pinpoint of the hotspot was slightly visable in the center of my TK40 beam on turbo! (FM Deep 2" can be tuned to a laser beam with an 1185 bulb).The TK40 pack wasn't full but it's a regulated light so usually when it doesn't have the juice for high, it just doesn't give you turbo. On Medium it blew away the TK40 beam and was brighter (with the new AW switch) than it used to be on Full.

On Full it was what I always wanted my M*G85 to be, more beatiful and white than I have even seen it and dog happy bright.

Needless to say I'm thrilled, for the first time I was actually a bit concerned about popping a bulb because it was so crazy bright compared to what I was used to. I guess my stock switch had some issues.

If the 1909 and the Hikari are brighter than this then I am in puppy heaven.

Edit: My old Amp pull at tailcap was 3.1, now I'm at 3.35! Based on Lux Luthors charts I just gained 400 Lumens, and it sure looks like it too!


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## mrartillery (Mar 4, 2010)

Bulbs came in today, and they were as described 

i put one in my mag11, because the batteries in my mag85 have seen their better days, ive got to get new ones!! And yes, this only overdrove it by a little over 2 volts :sigh:, but im fixin to throw 3 IMR's at it as soon as i get my 3 C host in, cant wait!


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## Phaserburn (Mar 4, 2010)

anyone running one of these on 2 cells in a WF500?


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## Techjunkie (Mar 4, 2010)

One of them on only two cells produces a pretty lack-luster brownish light. For two cells, you're better off with a 6V bulb that's rated for fewer hours, like a Philips 7388.

On a side note...

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I need two of my three IMR 26500 batteries (for an SST-50 I'm putting in a Mag 2C), and I can't justify buying another $30 worth of batteries to feed a $1 bulb. Well, the two bulbs that I had high hopes for finally came in yesterday and I took them for a spin. They're both 6V 35W 2000hr bulbs, one with an axial filament and one with a transverse filament.

I had hoped that they'd rock with only 2 4.2v batteries, or with 8 Duraloop AAs that I have on hand. Unfortunately, their overdrive sweetspot is somewhere in between those cell combinations and 3 IMR batteries. I don't have a bench supply to test with, so I started off small and worked my way up, battery-wise.

Both totally rocked with two 26500 IMRs and one 25500 LiFePO4, drawing 8A with that "testing-only" combination. I tried the axial bulb with a very spent 3 IMR pack (~11.5v open, IIRC) and  it went.

Both bulbs were quite a spectacle at 8A, significantly brighter than the poor man's bulb, and very white when driven that hard, but not what I was looking for. Both filaments were larger than the JC5607, producing a blinding wall of light. If I didn't mind the crappy runtime and the bigger torch, I think the perfect direct drive for both of these bulbs would be 10 Duraloop AAs and two dummies in a honed out Mag 3D. A better setup would be a hotdriver and 3 IMR, but that wouldn't be in the tradition of the poor-man.

For only two high output (IMR-type) cells, I've given up on charging the pack to only 8V to run a Philips 5761, in favor of fully charging the pack to 8.4V and running a Philips 7388. The output is visually 80-90% and the runtime is practically double. I wonder if the PH7388 would  on 8 Duraloops. I think we're about to find out...


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## Databyter (Mar 4, 2010)

I purchased a Batt holder from FM and decided to make the plunge for the 1909 bulb as well, even though I am the quintessential poor man.

I just wanted to test it out and see what all the talk is about.

One thing I like about the 1185 Bulb is that it is a round top, most of the bulbs in the higher amperage range seem to be dippy doo's on the top from manufacturer, and the 1909 is no exception. This would be more of a consideration if you used your light with the spot pulled out of focus for more flood or certain reflectors.

But given that I am using it in a deep reflector and am going to tune for maximum throw, the dippy doo is not going to be a factor, as it focuses nicely into a small neat dot.

It's not quite dark yet, but I've been hand testing it and the 1909 puts out significantly more HEAT, I hope that it is as efficent as the 1185 in heat/lumens ratio, because this will mean I'm going to have a fun night!

On low (30% with the AW switch) I can feel significant warming on my hand from the spot at 1 foot. On high the light itself seems about as bright as my 1185 bulb, but as I said it's not quite dark at time of test (a while ago) and so it's completely subjective.

It is quite bright on high, no doubt about it.

Since MrArtillary had good results with his cheapmans I may get a few and test em out too, but I expect my 1909 I just got will serve me for many months before Iwould need to change it the way I use em (mostly lower settings, and mostly for less than a minute).


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## bigchelis (Mar 5, 2010)

I have been using both the poor man FM1909 and the real FM 1909 and with less then 2 hours of use I have ruined 2 Stock Mag switches.

It appears the 50~60 watts is too much and my towers melt or cause the spring to stop working.

The PoorMan bulb only looks good or has a good beam in my Deep FM 2in deep reflector. In anthing else it looks bad....:sick2:


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## Linger (Mar 5, 2010)

big C I totally disagree with you re: JC5607 looking good in many reflectors. I've used it with salvaged MG rx-1 reflectors, with KD v3 OP reflectors.
Mine Hikari look just like the WA or Carley bulbs - it's a curled filament that produces artifacts if its not centered...
?


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## bigchelis (Mar 5, 2010)

Linger said:


> big C I totally disagree with you re: JC5607 looking good in many reflectors. I've used it with salvaged MG rx-1 reflectors, with KD v3 OP reflectors.
> Mine Hikari look just like the WA or Carley bulbs - it's a curled filament that produces artifacts if its not centered...
> ?


 
I will have to try to center it. I have both KD V3 smooth and OP, but I have not centered them or found the sweet spot.

I did get a near flawless beam with no centering whatsoever with the 2in Deep Fivemega VLOP reflector.


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## mrartillery (Mar 5, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> I will have to try to center it. I have both KD V3 smooth and OP, but I have not centered them or found the sweet spot.
> 
> I did get a near flawless beam with no centering whatsoever with the 2in Deep Fivemega VLOP reflector.




They fit perfect in Lithos reflectors, (.377 hole), hadnt got it powered up yet to see what the beam is like though. Just found a 3 C Mag in Dark green on ebay , hadnt seen one in forever, so i bought it!! Got 3 26500's itchin to be thrown in to it!!


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## Techjunkie (Mar 5, 2010)

BigC, I think the reason you're not liking the focus with the JC5607 is 'cause it's a tall bulb and you're using the stock Mag switch's bulb post and a bi-pin adapter. If you get a Kiu high-temp socket, you can set it to a fixed lower point to improve focus.


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## Techjunkie (Mar 5, 2010)

Here are some shots of the two new 6v 35W 2000hr bulbs I tried, in case anyone's intersted. Over drive was >80W, but without a hotdriver, or desire to run 10AA or 2IMR+1LiFe, I don't think I'll be using them.







^Bulb boxes in order as they appear on the invoice.^
The first item is the 20W PH7388 that's in the WF-600 LA, then the axial 35W bulb, then the transverse 35W bulb. The axial filament bulb was >$4 and delayed the order three weeks. The transverse filament Bulbtronics bulb was only $2 and in stock.






^close-ups of the bulbs. The middle one is the Philips 5761 6V 30W 100hr for reference^







^3xIMR = ^


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## Databyter (Mar 6, 2010)

Techjunkie said:


> Here are some shots of the two new 6v 35W 2000hr bulbs I tried, in case anyone's intersted. Over drive was >80W, but without a hotdriver, or desire to run 10AA or 2IMR+1LiFe, I don't think I'll be using them.
> 
> ^Bulb boxes in order as they appear on the invoice.^
> The first item is the 20W PH7388 that's in the WF-600 LA, then the axial 35W bulb, then the transverse 35W bulb. The axial filament bulb was >$4 and delayed the order three weeks. The transverse filament Bulbtronics bulb was only $2 and in stock.
> ...


Pictures removed to keep it neat, I was just wondering about the 6V 35 Watt, and the axial filiment (always wanted to try them.

I wasn't clear from your post if you had concluded they were worthy. I have a several flexible AA based platform for power supply on several hosts. I saw the 6V 35 watt in some searching the other day but I didn't run into any heavy duty 2000 hour life ones!

By the way I tried the FM 1909 last night at work and here are my conclusions comparing to the 1185 bulb.

The 1185 can be focused down to a laser like spot in an FM deep reflector, and has some fantastic throw. My first impression of the 1909 at 30% duty was that it was about the same, slightly less laser like even when focused but still a good spot in the FM deep.

I'm not sure why I couldn't get the same pinpoint light saber collimation (yes centered and focused) but still it was great by most standards, just not as laser bean as the 1185 is capable of.

So in usage I discovered that, yes the 1909 throws out a lot more lumens as we all know. I think for work it is a much more useable light because to get the throw I wanted with the 1185 I would pretty much make it into a light saber, but the spill although usable was terrible for taking pictures (which I do alot) so I had to either suffer a superwhite unintelligable spot in my photo surrounded by contasted darker areas (not really dark but the camera would figure exposure for the spot part and the spill wasn't up to the lower exposure), or I would unscrew the head some and suffer a nice perfect donut on my pic but overall a better pic.

With the 1909 however, the overall output was more balanced even when focused, because it is brighter it probably has about the same throw or better , but the spill is much more usefull, takes balanced photos at any level, in short, it's floody with good throw compared to the 1185.

I shined the beam into morning fog and noticed that indeed my perception about the focus was correct, although there was a column it was not as defined and collimated as the 1185 would have been, that is not to say that it wasn't just as bright in all the same places.

The massive amount more light that comes out of the 1909, at least in my test with the FM deep, goes mostly to spill, while still keeping the hotspot as bright or brighter than the 1185 (no way to test the center spot itself without whipping out the camera, and I've been busy the last day fixing my computer, as you can see successfully).


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## Techjunkie (Mar 6, 2010)

Databyter said:


> Pictures removed to keep it neat, I was just wondering about the 6V 35 Watt, and the axial filiment (always wanted to try them.
> 
> I wasn't clear from your post if you had concluded they were worthy. I have a several flexible AA based platform for power supply on several hosts. I saw the 6V 35 watt in some searching the other day but I didn't run into any heavy duty 2000 hour life ones!


 

For starters, these two bulbs really qualify as superbulbs. They're not in the insane 5 minutes at 250 Watts category, but they're not what I'd call practical hotwires. Unless you have a custom torch with many, many cells, you wouldn't get more than 15 minutes of usable runtime.

Puting the superbulb vs. practical hotwire categorization aside, worthy is in the eye of the beholder. To me, for a bulb to be "worthy" it must:

be easy to run near its limit (easy to me means direct drive, few cells, no carrier, no expensive custom regulator or host)
have great output near that limit
be focusable in a standard 2" head
be inexpensive
I think that these two bulbs fail for me on that first critera. Someone with a 12AA carrier capable of 8 amps, or a torch that can take 4 LiFePO4 might feel differntly. I haven't tried 4 LiFePO4, but with the right sag, or the right natural resistance, that might be the perfect setup for these bulbs... for about 5-10 minutes. Direct driving parallel combinations of 4s LiFe are out because there wouldn't be enough sag.

They're also very tall, which makes the third critera difficult, but achievable if you have a kiu hi-temp socket and are willing to lower it to it's lowest position. They're both GY6.35 base, so socket adapters and cammed reflectors are out. At ~80W overdriven, they're too hot for that anyway.

As superbulbs in a custom host with a hot-driver, these could be a very nice find, as they'd provide a smaller spot and longer runtime than their higher Wattage, bigger filament siblings.


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## Linger (Aug 18, 2010)

I've been using another $1 bulb of suprising attributes:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4379

lists as 12v, 50w. Important to note is the very fine fit and finish - each filament precisely centered, each glass top uniformly snipped off. Also, the actual bulb I recieved has horizontal not vertical filament.
Performance - bulb takes serious current. Decent colour with 2s lipo, a little brown, long cool-down time for the massive fillament. Powered by 3s lipo (~11.85A under draw) the bulb is hella bright, hella white. Also, it gets hella hot, and the legs started scorching the side of my KD reflector and scorched the JST-x connector that was serving interm for my Kui socket until I decide if I"m sanding the legs down.

Best,
Linger


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## bridgman (Nov 5, 2022)

OK, 12 years later these bulbs still work really well. I bought a number of Hikari bulbs from Bulb Town (in the US, I'm in Canada so I bought enough that shipping was only half the total cost) and just plugged a 5607 into my Mag85, replacing a WA1185. 

Worked great, with the caveat that the battery pack (9 AA eneloops) had been used for a minute or two after charging and I had a cheap battery holder in the mix. Next step is to fully charge the eneloops and try again. 

The bulbs are made in China these days (not sure where they were made in 2009) but they still give a whole lot of bright.


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## hamhanded (Nov 6, 2022)

Where do you find the bi-pin adapters and reflectors these days?


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## fivemega (Nov 7, 2022)

hamhanded said:


> Where do you find the bi-pin adapters and reflectors these days?


*Do you mean you never seen * *G4*/*G6.35 ceramic sockets* *?

Or **G4 Sockets*

*M*g C & D camless Reflectors*

*2.5" Throw Master*


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## bridgman (Dec 31, 2022)

bridgman said:


> just plugged a 5607 into my Mag85, replacing a WA1185.
> 
> Worked great, with the caveat that the battery pack (9 AA eneloops) had been used for a minute or two after charging and I had a cheap battery holder in the mix. Next step is to fully charge the eneloops and try again.



Hmm... I just flashed that 5607 after recharging the Eneloops. Three of the cells were fresh off the charger but the other six had rested overnight while the last few cells were charging.

I don't remember if I got around to testing on fully charged cells before... I think the answer is no. I guess I'll let the cells rest for a day or so before putting a new 5607 in there.


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## hamhanded (Dec 31, 2022)

Can you fit an inrush current limiter in there, maybe that will help?


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