# "flashlights not allowed"



## Tre_Asay (Jan 22, 2016)

I was reading up on recommended caving gear and I found this:
http://www.ohranger.com/oregon-caves/things-do

[h=3]"What NOT to Bring for the Tour[/h]

*Flashlights*. The cave is lit and rangers carry flashlights.
..."



I know they also ask people to not bring flashlights on the mammoth cave tours, but isn't it bad enough to make us leave behind things like pocket knives and multitools? (not that I would listen anyways)

Anyone else have an example of places where flashlights are discouraged? I personally still would bring several that are probably brighter and or more reliable than anything that is provided, but keep them secreted away unless I needed them.

I wonder If ordinary flashlights will be seen as a potential defensive tool and thus become questionable to carry in places where self defense is practically banned already.


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## lightfooted (Jan 23, 2016)

I don't understand. Scrolling up in that list they already stated that if you have your own LED headlight, you may use it. Provided it wasn't used for exploring another cave and still dirty.


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## blah9 (Jan 23, 2016)

That is weird and annoying. Maybe they just want headlamps instead of flashlights then?


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## blah9 (Jan 23, 2016)

So far I can't think of any places I've been that banned flashlights thankfully.  Hopefully they won't start soon.


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## sandalian (Jan 23, 2016)

Non flashlight guy tend to overact when they have flashlight in the dark.
I think the cave management doesn't want this kind of guy ruin the tour with their "police" branded flashlights.

To my opinion, you won't be inspected when you enter the cave. 
Just let the guides do the job and keep your flashlight in the holster.

*additional story:*
I want to share my personal experience, recreational cave tour on tire tube. 
The guides are local villagers, using their best headlamp they can afford. 







When I draw my own flashlight, he looked displeased so I put back my flashlight into the pocket just to respect him.


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## N_N_R (Jan 23, 2016)

Caution! Enormous dark space ahead! DO NOT enter with a flashlight!!


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## greenlight (Jan 23, 2016)

Lots of large concert events list of things that you can't bring inside and flashlights are often mentioned. That doesn't stop me from bringing my flashlight. I don't think they even look for flashlights at the security gates. All they're looking for is beer.


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## scout24 (Jan 31, 2016)

I would imagine, in the OP's case, that the Rangers and those organizing the tours want everyone to have the tour go smoothly, without the possibility of someone swinging 2,000 lumens around and distracting from the presentation, or accidentally blinding a fellow tourist. The literature did say it was OK to bring your own gear, including helmet and LED light source, or did I read that wrong?


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## GunnarGG (Jan 31, 2016)

Last summer we visited NY and went to the Empire State Building.
When we went through the security I picked up my small multitool since that wasn't allowed there.
The guy checking my backpack found a flashlight and said that I had to leave that to.
He then found another one, and another one... 
He didn't notice my Fenix E05 and SAK classic on my keyring and I didn't point that out to him either.

I think I can recall that I have read here on CPF or in a link on CPF that after the WTC disaster it was said that some lives could have been saved if they had flashlights with them. So why confiscate them in security? I can't really see them do much harm unless it's superbright spotlights.


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## Str8stroke (Jan 31, 2016)

I have been outted by security screening at several places a few times. So far I have always been allowed to bring THEM in. I keep a photobucket page open on my phone. Just in case they think they have some nefarious use. A few pics later, and usually laughs I am good to go. 
Closest call yet was in at the New Orleans Audubon Butterfly Garden and Insectarium. They have tight security. Full body metal scanner, and that thing you run the bags through. Naturally, my bag got flagged for inspection: Probably due to camera right?? lol Nope, mini pliers, mini pry bar, mini screwdrivers, 4 flashlights (McGizmo, SF E1D, SF Peacekeeper, Maratac AAA), all kinds of Ti on my keys, my belt Col. Littleton No. 5 chinch, and Small Swiss army Lite knife (I guess that is 5 lights). 
I always carry baby chew toys and baby food & diapers to make it look less serious. I told the security guards I repaired computers for a living. I also showed them the photobucket light collection LOL (BTW: I don't work on computers)
They were so busy laughing at all my junk mixed with diapers and my wife making fun of me, they let me go! Told me next time I should, "lighten the load". This was funny, because I had a dirty diaper in two zip loc bags!! So my joke was I was carrying a huge Load! Worked like a champ.


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## Woods Walker (Feb 2, 2016)

How exactly would these rangers stop me from carrying one in my pocket? Lots of luck with that.


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## DrafterDan (Feb 8, 2016)

I ran into the same thing in Costa Rica last year. A very nice underground tour of the Rio Secreto. I had a simple 2xAA travel light (I don't bring expensive torches, only ones I wouldn't mind losing), and had to leave it in their locker. 

Most "regular" people wouldn't bring a 2k lumen monster, it's more about the below:
Light pollution. Caves have living things that we don't want to disturb, and also don't want to trash the subtlety of a low-light environment with a powerful torch.
Grease/ contaminants. Even your body oils disrupt the cave environment, but they gotta make money. They've no way of knowing what junk you've got on your torch.
They handed out simple head-band lights, which worked nicely.

Now, the above is on a privately-owned tour company cave. 
If it were just my friends and I spelunking in a publicly-accessible cave, I'd bring several torches, simple ones for flood and probably at least one for throw. As cavers say, bring a minimum of three (3) light sources. It's really, really dark in a cave.

It was really fun to sit (float, actually) in the cave for several minutes without any light source. Most people never experience that level of dark.


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## Str8stroke (Feb 8, 2016)

DD, that is interesting. I went on a tour of the privately owned cave in Sonora Texas.

It is a small, not so well know cave/cavern system here in the US. It was a few years back, I don't recall seeing any signs that read no flashlights or camera flashes. The very knowledgeable lady guide carried two maglite C cell lights. I carried a Surefire E1 Back Up led (60 lumen I think), and a Surefire E2D Led (200 Lumen). I asked first if I could use my light to help out. I showed her the Back Up, but I actually used the E2D. Everyone was blown away by how bright it was. lol She & the whole tour group wanted me up in the front of the group to light things up. FWIW: the TIR lens does well to point out things in a cave. 
I guess there are several factors here: Location, Guide personality, asking permission first, being helpful. 

If I were to go back, I would probably bring a Neutral or Nichia type Triple or maybe a OR Triple WASP, and my trusty E2D Ultra.


Anyone interested to see the cave/cavern: It is humid, and I think 72 degrees all the time and has lots of steps.
http://cavernsofsonora.com/


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## Tac Gunner (Feb 18, 2016)

I got hustled by a security guard at a concert over my EA4. I had already been through security once but had to go back out and go through another check point due to the tickets I had. Anyway, the second guard went ballistic over me having it. Said he had to go check with his supervisor if I was allowed to have it, etc etc. Mind you flashlights were not on the prohibited items list and I had never had any previous issues. I think it was just this one guard. He asked me why I had it and when I said because it was going to be dark it there and in case the power went out, he laughed at me and said that was not a good enough reason. I just I had somebody take it back to the vehicle.


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## JPA261 (Feb 18, 2016)

Wow, can't believe places like concerts or even famous Building were giving you problems. 

I going to DC in May. Planning on going to the Smithsonian Museums, Holocaust museum, Capitol Building, etc....any of you know places where I can't bring them? I would hate for security to confiscate them and I no longer have a light on me during my trip.


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## dc38 (Feb 18, 2016)

JPA261 said:


> Wow, can't believe places like concerts or even famous Building were giving you problems.
> 
> I going to DC in May. Planning on going to the Smithsonian Museums, Holocaust museum, Capitol Building, etc....any of you know places where I can't bring them? I would hate for security to confiscate them and I no longer have a light on me during my trip.



From my personal experience...no flashlights in ANY federal building.


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## JPA261 (Feb 18, 2016)

dc38 said:


> From my personal experience...no flashlights in ANY federal building.



Seriously?! Just Great


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## blah9 (Feb 18, 2016)

Wow, that's pretty crazy. You could always go with a literal keychain flashlight such as the Nitecore Tube maybe?


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## nbp (Feb 18, 2016)

dc38 said:


> From my personal experience...no flashlights in ANY federal building.



What's the logic there? It's not even reasonable.


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## Tre_Asay (Mar 5, 2016)

I would have to disagree, I was a... unique kid, My whole class went on a tour of the state capitol and security checked everyones bags.
me being me had brought a little 21 LED UV light because I wanted to see if there were any tamper evident florescent strips on the walls to detect bugs and phone tapping. The huge security guard just turned it on, shrugged, and handed it back to me. Well I did not find anything spy related in the building I always remembered getting to bring my own uv light in despite the objections of my less adventurous friend.


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## RedLED (Mar 11, 2016)

We can have them in the WH press pool, inside the bubble of the tightest security any where.


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## sween1911 (Mar 31, 2016)

One of the reasons I could imagine at least in a cave area is to prevent people from wandering off and getting lost and/or injured. Same situation as the underwater cave signs. If you allow people in the area to carry a light, they might follow a cave or path that they otherwise would avoid...

http://i.imgur.com/7Vr7F1r.jpg

As for disallowing flashlights in federal buildings or secure areas, I have no clue why people would care unless they have 3" stainless crenellated porcupine bezels. As for concerts, think about the trouble that people with laser pointers cause. There's a great video of a KISS concert where the singer (Paul Stanley?) freaks out, stops a song, and calls out an audience member with a laser pointer. They lump flashlights into that category and suddenly you can't carry a flashlight because you'll shine it around during the performance.


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## Gunnerboy (Apr 2, 2016)

dc38 said:


> From my personal experience...no flashlights in ANY federal building.



I work in a federal building. My first few weeks there, while waiting to receive my ID badge, I had to pass through screening each morning like all non-ID-carrying visitors.

During that time, each and every guard had on multiple occasions noticed my Zebralight SC600 as it passed through the X-ray machine. Most of the time, they just picked it up and muttered "Oh, its just a flashlight..." The lone guard that always wanted to examine it up close would turn it ON, then could never figure out how to get past strobe-mode!:laughing:

Point is...flashlights are NOT banned from federal buildings.


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## Launch Mini (Apr 13, 2016)

I can sort of see them not allowing the, for one reason only.
Bats.
If you have been caving before, in an area where the bats were infected with White Nose Syndrom, there is a good chance that may be on your flashlight and then it could be transmitted to the clean cave.
It is a stretch, but a possibility.


Myabe in this context at that cave, it is more of a "you don't need to supply your own flashlight" than they are forbidden.


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## Tre_Asay (Apr 25, 2016)

I think the trend for brighter is always better is one reason, people might come with their $50 9 AAA flashlights and wash the cave out with 200+ lumens of very cool and very low CRI light. It is better to use minimal lighting in some situations.

I had no idea about the underwater cave signs, it makes sense though. I enjoy underground caving, and diving, but not mixing them together. 

I would find it less likely for white nose syndrome to be transmitted on a flashlight than about anything else a tourist might bring into a cave. If they say you can't bring gear into a cave for this reason then they should also do the due diligence of not allowing shoes.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 4, 2016)

Caves are dark. Everything inside a cave is extremely sensitive to light. There are colonies of bacteria and fungus living in there that can be killed by blue light, animals living in the cave will have their metabolisms screwed up by exposure to blue light, and it will screw up everyone else's ability to see clearly for several minutes afterwards.

If you bring a flashlight, keep it in your pocket and only use it in an emergency -- which will almost certainly not happen because the park rangers know to bring spares with them.


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## smokinbasser (Jun 4, 2016)

As a former service member I use the VA hospital and here they just do not want knives or firearms to be brought in, nobody has said anything to me and I have two lights on lanyards attached to my walker.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 7, 2016)

I took one to an aircraft museum once. The guard saw the pocket clip and asked me what it was; I pulled it out and showed him it was a flashlight. He waved me in. I used it to light up the insides of jet engines so we could see the inner workings better.


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## Str8stroke (Jun 7, 2016)

JPA261 said:


> Wow, can't believe places like concerts or even famous Building were giving you problems.
> 
> I going to DC in May. Planning on going to the Smithsonian Museums, Holocaust museum, Capitol Building, etc....any of you know places where I can't bring them? I would hate for security to confiscate them and I no longer have a light on me during my trip.



I toured several, Federal buildings & museums and such in New Orleans, a year ago, with my Surefire E1D & a Tain Ottavino AAA (Tain on my keys), with a Blue Trit. I carried it in a a leather book bag full of kid junk & iPad and cameras and such. Not a single issue.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 9, 2016)

They won't confiscate them. At most they'll tag them, give you the tag stub, and put them in a lockbox until you claim them. But even that is highly unlikely.


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## Jay R (Sep 22, 2016)

*Remember, torch =flashlight in England*

Chislehurst Caves. South East London. Below quote from their website Q and A.

Can I take a torch in the caves?
No, all our guides are experienced in using torches underground, inexperienced users may inadvertently shine their torch in other people's eyes which can be quite painful when your pupils are fully dilated in total darkness. Our Oil Lamps create a far more pleasant atmosphere


I think it's mostly for the atmosphere. Everyone gets given oil lamps to carry. In fact, the times I have gone I just held back a bit and used my torch to light up side tunnels and such. I never had an issue as long as I didn't shine it around the main group.


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## hangn_9 (Nov 7, 2016)

Launch Mini said:


> I can sort of see them not allowing the, for one reason only.
> Bats.


This was my experience in the "Devils' Icebox" in Columbia Mo. It's a water cave you canoe through that is run by the DNR,it's about 5 mi with portages. 

Anyway the DNR guide said very clearly DO NOT SHINE YOUR LIGHTS ON THE BATS!. Of course, that is exactly what the co-ed girls did. Needless to say, that caused the bat's to think it was a big cave bat party. Not a big deal for our group as no-one was scared of bats and they( the girsl not the bats) were kinda hot.

I can, however, understand how this could be a real problem. The other post that refer to the light taking away the spelunkers night vision also makes sense


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## liteboy (Nov 8, 2016)

When I went to Luray Caverns, I stayed back and used my m43vn to light up areas of interest and it was quite an xperience. I gave lights to all my kids but they were taught to be courteous and not ruin the experience for others.


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## gravelmonkey (Nov 8, 2016)

Maybe some of the tours differentiate between a headlamp and a flashlight/torch because you need to have your hands free. Just a thought!


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## Mikasa (Jun 15, 2017)

I'm actually disappointed whenever I do cave tours that don't require flashlights. I mean, the main reason I'm interested in spelunking is because I get to explore the beauty of the underworld with my bright lights! Having said that, I think I understand why some cave tours discourage, if not prohibit flashlights. Some tours might rely on specific lighting conditions to achieve a certain ambiance during the tour. I guess not everyone appreciates bright lights in dark places.


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## aginthelaw (Jun 15, 2017)

I took the family to one in Pennsylvania and they had no problem with me using my astrolux s41. I had to rig a lanyard from a shoelace I had in the car since I knew the kids wanted to use it. I was the one that dropped it of course, and almost lost it down a shaft. It stopped just short of the ledge. The tour guide didn't use a light since it was well lit and the darkest areas were off limits.


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## american lockpicker (Apr 21, 2018)

Outer space aside are there any places you can't have a flashlight due to what type batteries ie lithium are in it?


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## Jay R (Apr 23, 2018)

Engineers in my company have to have lights rated for use in explosive atmospheres. Does that count?


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## american lockpicker (Apr 23, 2018)

Jay R said:


> Engineers in my company have to have lights rated for use in explosive atmospheres. Does that count?


 Do you use anything besides Pelican?


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## Spikefos (Sep 20, 2018)

I also know a few places where flashlights are disallowed. For example, at religious places and the main tourist attractions, at concerts and conferences in one word at all crowded places


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## PartyPete (Sep 20, 2018)

Our local Halloween attraction is very strict with this; they check you with a metal detector wand and carefully examine your keychain. They caught me a couple years in a row when I forgot I had a Tube or whatever on my keys. 

Of course cellphones aren't permitted either but I understand their rationale; a light source would be less fun for an event like that.


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## Jay R (Sep 24, 2018)

american lockpicker said:


> Do you use anything besides Pelican?



Sorry, only just saw this question, in short, no. Only Pelican.

In fact my company issues its own internationally recognised 'Seal of approval' on products and Pelican lights are the only ones we have approved for hazardous environments. (But that may be because they are the only manufacturers that have submitted their products for approval, I don't know)


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## mattheww50 (Sep 24, 2018)

I believe Streamlight makes several models that are approved for hazardous environments


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