# 10mcp Thor



## BlueBeam22 (May 18, 2008)

Do you have a 10 million candlepower Thor?

1. Yes
2. No
3. I want to get one
4. I don't like it and I don't want one


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## BVH (May 18, 2008)

My 8 or so Thor 10's disappeared when I started bringing home HID's.


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## FredM (May 18, 2008)

I have the one with the LED's in the handle.


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## Probedude (May 18, 2008)

BVH said:


> My 8 or so Thor 10's disappeared when I started bring home HID's.



I thought I read a post where the Thor 10MCP was brighter than the sam's POB?


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## PhantomPhoton (May 18, 2008)

Yes, I have a "10,000,000 candlepower" incandescent Thor that I bought from Costco years ago. It is still in near perfect condition... I never used it much.


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## Patriot (May 18, 2008)

Probedude said:


> I thought I read a post where the Thor 10MCP was brighter than the sam's POB?




The Thor10 is about 1900 lumens with a really good battery, The Thor15 is about 2300 lumens with a really great battery. The POB is about 3100 lumens throughout its runtime.


I gave mine to my Uncle because I have so many HID's now. I guess I don't have a want or need for one anymore.


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## BVH (May 18, 2008)

There's no way that a Thor 10 would hold a candle (power) to a POB.


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## Probedude (May 19, 2008)

BVH said:


> There's no way that a Thor 10 would hold a candle (power) to a POB.


Okay, thanks. I thought so but read this thread.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2473269#post2473269

Now that I re-read it, they're comparing the POB to the 15MCP Thor.


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## Patriot (May 19, 2008)

Probedude said:


> Okay, thanks. I thought so but read this thread.
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2473269#post2473269
> 
> Now that I re-read it, they're comparing the POB to the 15MCP Thor.






Also, sorry....because I told you the Thor10 as 2300 lumens when it's really only about 1900 bulb lumens. The Thor15 with 120W bulb is 2300 lumens.

So yeah, 1900 lumens max, compared to 3100 lumens. Big difference! Also the POB will throw about 1.7 times farther with the same reflector size and surface.


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## BVH (May 19, 2008)

I think the Thor/Cyclops 15 mcd uses a 130 Watt lamp.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 19, 2008)

The 15mcp thor has a brighter hotspot than the POB HID, so when they are both shined on the same surface at the same time the Thor looks brighter. The 15mcp Thor also throws farther than the POB. The 15mcp Thor does use a 130W H4 halogen, and has a 9'' reflecor.

I have a Sharper Image branded 10mcp that looks like a rebranded Thor 10mcp (100W H4, 7'' reflector, same stand, same reflector ring as a Thor), and it is not nearly as bright as the Thor 15mcp or the POB HID.


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## FredM (May 19, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> The 15mcp thor has a brighter hotspot than the POB HID, so when they are both shined on the same surface at the same time the Thor looks brighter. The 15mcp Thor also throws farther than the POB. The 15mcp Thor does use a 130W H4 halogen, and has a 9'' reflecor.
> 
> I have a Sharper Image branded 10mcp that looks like a rebranded Thor 10mcp (100W H4, 7'' reflector, same stand, same reflector ring as a Thor), and it is not nearly as bright as the Thor 15mcp or the POB HID.



Yeah the 9" gives like over 60% more reflector surface area than the 7". This is a huge difference in reflector size. The only reason the POB throws so well it because it is HID. 

The "Costco" HID throws like a laser, almost maxabeam like. 

Unless you really cannot stand the color temperature of the HID lights I don't see why you like the Incans so much. I mean a few years ago HID under 200 bucks was rare but now there really is not much reason to stay with the old technology.


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## Flashanator (May 19, 2008)

Get a Mega illuminator 35w HID, add a 55w 6k or 4.3k HID (I like 6K for the beam)
It eats the little 130watt halogen.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 19, 2008)

FredM,

I do like my Power On Board HID VERY much, but here is why I like incans:

I prefer Incans because of their instant-on to full brightness ability.

I don't like how I have to wait for 1 minute after turning off the HID to turn it back on so that I don't instant-restrike the bulb.

And I don't like how my POB HID (or any HID) has to stay on for a minute before turning it off because it is bad for the bulb to turn it right off after turning it on.

IMHO the Thor 15mcp blows away the POB HID, except for the fact that the HID doesn't dim.

I do like the Costco HID, I have seen beamshots of it, and I see what you mean about the laser beam because I have green lasers. Thanks for telling me about it.

I do want to get a Costco HID. I plan on buying one next year (the 4200K AmondoTech Mega Illuminator version) because I know it will leave my 15mcp Thor in the dust. Since the Mega Illuminator will be so much brighter than my Thor, I don't care at all that it's HID, I would just be amazed to have such a powerful light!:twothumbs



Flashanator 500mw,

I am going to get a Costco HID or a Mega Illuminator (preferably the AmondoTech), thanks for your suggestion!


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## Patriot (May 19, 2008)

BVH said:


> I think the Thor/Cyclops 15 mcd uses a 130 Watt lamp.




Thanks for the reminder.  Mine also has a 130W in it. I think there are a few clones and generics (yes, even more generic) which use the 120W bulb too. 

BlueBeam, doesn't your mechanics special or whatever it's called, have a 120W bulb in it? I thought one of your lights did.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 19, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Thanks for the reminder.  Mine also has a 130W in it. I think there are a few clones and generics (yes, even more generic) which use the 120W bulb too.
> 
> BlueBeam, doesn't your mechanics special or whatever it's called, have a 120W bulb in it? I thought one of your lights did.


 
Yes, the Professional's Favorite 17.5mcp uses a 120W H4, while the 15mcp Thor uses a 130W H4. My guess is that the Pro's Favorite is a generic version of the 18mcp Thor because of it's bigger reflector, brighter bulb, and candlepower rating. The 18mcp Thor might just be the same as the 15mcp, but the Pro's Favorite is a true upgrade on the 15mcp Thor. 

EDIT: Here is a link to the Cyclops website, the green one is the 18mcp. My rebranded "Motor Trend" 15mcp Thor is the black one.

http://www.cyclopssolutions.com/HTML/spotlights.html#


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## Patriot (May 20, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> My guess is that the Pro's Favorite is a generic version of the 18mcp Thor because of it's bigger reflector, brighter bulb, and candlepower rating. The 18mcp Thor might just be the same as the 15mcp, but the Pro's Favorite is a true upgrade on the 15mcp Thor.




I'm still not understanding what makes the Pro's Favorite an "upgrade" on the 15mcp Thor. We've seen 130W H4 bulbs lights advertised from 15-22mcp but they're all the same bulb and all the same battery. Help... 


For example when I go to the cyclops link that you provided is shows two large lights each with 130W H4 bulbs and 12V 7Ah batteries. They call on 15mcp and the other 18mcp. It's all hogwash!

I thought is that every one of these lights are going to be the same when they have similar bulbs, batteries, and standard wiring. The 120W H4 is going to be a about 150 lumens less than a 130W H4 when powered by a strong 12-13V power supply.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 20, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> I'm still not understanding what makes the Pro's Favorite an "upgrade" on the 15mcp Thor. We've seen 130W H4 bulbs lights advertised from 15-22mcp but they're all the same bulb and all the same battery. Help...
> 
> 
> For example when I go to the cyclops link that you provided is shows two large lights each with 130W H4 bulbs and 12V 7Ah batteries. They call on 15mcp and the other 18mcp. It's all hogwash!
> ...


 
Patriot36,

There are several reasons why the Pro's Favorite is an upgrade on the Thor 15mcp:

The main thing is that on the low setting it gives a very bright half-circle of light bright enough to light up a field, much better than the Thor that has a dim hotspot and a dim half circle.

The Pro's Favorite is much tougher and more durable than the 15mcp Thor, it has a mostly hard rubber body rather than the Thor's plastic one.
I have banged the Pro's Favorite several times on a wall or a hard surface and the only thing that got damaged was what it hit.

The Pro's Favorite has a whiter beam than the Thor, so it is perceivably brighter and putting out more light than the Thor (except for the hotspot intensity).

And the Pro's Favorite also has a very bright corona around the hotspot which makes it better for medium-range illumination (100-500 yards). The 15mcp Thor's Corona is much dimmer than the Pro's Favorite.

A few specs about the Pro's Favorite: It has a built in carry strap, one stand instead of two, the Pro's Favorite has a 12 volt DC socket to power small electronics, and it has a very nice large handle.

Does this help?

EDIT WITH UPDATE:

I should have mentioned before that the Thor 15mcp is like a Maxabeam with its extremely intense hotspot (this is why I often refer to it as my brightest light) and laser like throw, and the Pro's Favorite is like a Xeray or a PH50 with its very uniform and bright whole-area illumination.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 20, 2008)

FredM said:


> I have the one with the LED's in the handle.


 
I have the "Sharper Image" version of the 10mcp Thor.


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## Flashanator (May 21, 2008)

Thor 15mcp is like at Maxabeam??


srr i couldnt resist.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 21, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> Thor 15mcp is like at Maxabeam??
> 
> 
> srr i couldnt resist.


 
:lolsign::lolsign:


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## Patriot (May 21, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> Patriot36,
> 
> There are several reasons why the Pro's Favorite is an upgrade on the Thor 15mcp:
> 
> ...






When I asked about the "upgrade" was was primarily speaking of outright beam performance, not handles, stands and shoulder straps.  

If you're experiencing large discrepancies between the beam characteristics of two different lights, which both with 9" reflectors, H4 bulbs, 12V 7Ah SLA batteries, I suspect that the main difference is going to be due to a difference in bulb positioning and or variances of battery condition. The lights will project a beam according to the sum of their parts. If the parts are similar or equal their beams should be similar or equal. If something isn't equal, like one has tired battery, then they really can't be compared fairly. 

Regarding the "15mcp is like a Maxabeam," I think you might have scared me some with that example Bluebeam..:nana: They really couldn't be more different. Even the collimated portion of the Costco is focused better than the Thor and it doesn't come close to a 1 degree beam.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 21, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> When I asked about the "upgrade" was was primarily speaking of outright beam performance, not handles, stands and shoulder straps.
> 
> If you're experiencing large discrepancies between the beam characteristics of two different lights, which both with 9" reflectors, H4 bulbs, 12V 7Ah SLA batteries, I suspect that the main difference is going to be due to a difference in bulb positioning and or variances of battery condition. The lights will project a beam according to the sum of their parts. If the parts are similar or equal their beams should be similar or equal. If something isn't equal, like one has tired battery, then they really can't be compared fairly.
> 
> Regarding the "15mcp is like a Maxabeam," I think you might have scared me some with that example Bluebeam..:nana: They really couldn't be more different. Even the collimated portion of the Costco is focused better than the Thor and it doesn't come close to a 1 degree beam.


 
Patriot36,

Then the POB HID would be a clear upgrade on the 15mcp Thor in terms of actual output.

LOL, I know I was way off with my Maxabeam example, I was just refering to the fact that it has a very narrow laser-like beam when compared to the Pro's Favorite.

The only difference I notice in reflector quality between the Thor and the Pro's Favorite is that the Pro's has a "rough" reflector (not smooth at all) and the Thor has a mirror-smooth reflector. maybe this is why the Pro's Favorite has a spread-out beam and a larger corona compared to the Thor.


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## Patriot (May 22, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> The only difference I notice in reflector quality between the Thor and the Pro's Favorite is that the Pro's has a "rough" reflector (not smooth at all) and the Thor has a mirror-smooth reflector. maybe this is why the Pro's Favorite has a spread-out beam and a larger corona compared to the Thor.





Perhaps you could share a picture of each reflector with us. Would you say that the one has an orange peel finish?


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## BlueBeam22 (May 22, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Perhaps you could share a picture of each reflector with us. Would you say that the one has an orange peel finish?


 
Exactly! The Pro's Favorite has an orange peel reflector, much different than the mirror-like ones in my 10mcp and 15mcp Thors.

Do you consider the orange peel better or worse than the mirror smooth kind?

My POB HID has an orange-peel reflector, but still a bit smoother than the one in the Pro's Favorite.

I will take pictures of the reflectors next time I photograph my lights.


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## Patriot (May 22, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> Exactly! The Pro's Favorite has an orange peel reflector, much different than the mirror-like ones in my 10mcp and 15mcp Thors.
> 
> Do you consider the orange peel better or worse than the mirror smooth kind?
> 
> ...




If you're POB has an orange peel reflector you aught to put it up for auction. It's gotta be a "one in a million." I've never seen or heard of one like that. 

Maybe we can trade, my cyclops for your orange peeled POB.....


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## BlueBeam22 (May 22, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> If you're POB has an orange peel reflector you aught to put it up for auction. It's gotta be a "one in a million." I've never seen or heard of one like that.
> 
> Maybe we can trade, my cyclops for your orange peeled POB.....


 
That is strange about my POB, when I compare it to the Thor's reflector it is not as smooth, do you notice this? If you look at them both close up you will see what I mean. The POB's reflector is still smoother than the Pro's Favorite.

The Pro's Favorite has a very rough orange peel reflector, and so does my SMARTBEAM 15mcp.

Maybe my POB doesn't have an orange peel, but I thought so because of how it compares to the reflector in the Thor.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 22, 2008)

Patriot36,

Does the Costco HID have an orange peel reflector?

It seems like the orange peels give a nicer beam, but the smooth ones give the best throw.

FYI The Pro's Favorite's half circle on low looks at least twice as bright as the 15mcp Thor on low (I know I have said this before but I'm just making it clear how bright it is). It is so bright just the half circle can BRIGHTLY illuminate a 300 yard field. It is an amazing sight. The 15mcp Thor doesn't come close to this on low. 

It is interesting how with the Pro's Favorite only one filament lights up, so it doesn't give the center beam along with the half-circle like the Thors do. The lights must be wired differently.

So this would be the only "true" upgrade the Pro's Favorite has over the 15mcp Thor.


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## Patriot (May 22, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> Patriot36,
> 
> Does the Costco HID have an orange peel reflector?
> 
> ...






The costco's reflector is smooth. 

Generally that's true, the orange peel (op) reflector smooths out beam artifacts but reduces throw.

It sounds like the low beam on the Pro's favorite is very useful. It must be wired differently as you stated. I would consider that an upgrade from the Thor for sure!


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## BlueBeam22 (May 23, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> The costco's reflector is smooth.
> 
> Generally that's true, the orange peel (op) reflector smooths out beam artifacts but reduces throw.
> 
> It sounds like the low beam on the Pro's favorite is very useful. It must be wired differently as you stated. I would consider that an upgrade from the Thor for sure!


 
So then Pro's Favorite is the best light before the POB HID, and then the Costco HID would be the best.

My SMARTBEAM 15mcp has an even rougher orange peel than the Pro's Favorite, and as a result it has NO beam artifacts, just a perfect round circle of light with no brighter/dimmer areas (no hotspot or corona), just like the beam of a short-arc xenon. Just imagine a giant Thor hotspot. It gives "Tunnel vision".


It looks exactly the same as this light http://www2.northerntool.com/product/200342907.htm but has a 40/80/120 (120W when both filaments are lit) watt H4 instead. On this light low gives the exact same circle as medium or high, it just gets brighter the higher the setting with no "half circles".

I like my 15mcp Smartbeam so much more than my 15mcp Thor, my POB HID, and my Pro's Favorite, probably how you like your PH50 I am going to take a picture of it for my avatar soon.


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## Patriot (May 23, 2008)

> *Bluebeam
> *So then Pro's Favorite is the best light before the POB HID, and then the Costco HID would be the best.


I'm not sure what you mean with that statement. "Best" for you maybe, but you don't have a Costco right?

As far as I'm concerned the Costo would be my favorite, the POB, then the incan you described, but then I don't have the incan you described. 




> *Bluebeam
> *My SMARTBEAM 15mcp has an even rougher orange peel than the Pro's Favorite, and as a result it has NO beam artifacts, just a perfect round circle of light with no brighter/dimmer areas (no hotspot or corona), just like the beam of a short-arc xenon. Just imagine a giant Thor hotspot. It gives "Tunnel vision".


Regarding incan and HID spotslights, they all have some degree of "hotspot" "corona" and "spill." Any light with an op reflector is going to give side spill. It's just physics. All those little dimples and bumps cause the light to be spread randomly in many directions. Smooth reflectors will give the least spill, textured reflectors will give more spill. 

The very nature of incandescent filaments prevents then from having a beam that remotely resembles the beam of a short-arc light, like the Maxabeam. The same can be said for textured reflectors. The fact that the light your talking about has both would put it even farther from short-arc similarity than even smooth reflectored HID lights. The smaller the point source of light is the better it can be focused. Incandescent filaments are larger than and HID arc, and HID arcs are larger than short-arcs. The larger the point source of light the less that light can be focused. If a given incandescent filament is 4 times larger than a given HID arc, then the incan lamp would need a reflector 4 times the size in order to collimate the beam to the same degree as the HID. Our friendly optical engineer and CPFer *Ra* can correct me if there is a disproportional gain or loss, but if I remember correctly it's a 1:1 ratio. 

After the guys in CA do the shoot-out this weekend you'll be able to see how completely different short-arc is from even the most focused HID light, which in turn is more focusable than incandescent bulbs. :thumbsup:


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## BlueBeam22 (May 23, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean with that statement. "Best" for you maybe, but you don't have a Costco right?
> 
> As far as I'm concerned the Costo would be my favorite, the POB, then the incan you described, but then I don't have the incan you described.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Patriot36!

I think I understand how all of the different bulbs line up in throw (focusability), please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Short Arc Mercury Vapor (highest surface brightness)
2. Short Arc Xenon
3. Automotive HID
3. Halogen/Incan

4. LED:shakehead

I know Mercury Vapor is the best, that's why Ra used it in his Maxablaster.

What I meant to say is that the beam from my SMARTBEAM spotlight gives a clean circle of light that kind of looks like a short arc xenon to me (I was not referring to beam concentration or throw, I should have been more clear).

I don't notice a hotspot or corona, but it does have side-spill and a few minor imperfections in the beam.

It is in no way a "perfect" circle if compared to a short arc xenon, but the beam-pattern does remind me so much of the Megaray based on the beamshots I have seen of it.

I think the Costco HID is the best because it throws the farthest, puts out the most light, and it's HID.

The 15mcp Thor's filament looks about 150% as long as the arc globe (and the arc) in my POB. The POB puts out 800 more lumens than the Thor.
So it makes sense that the Thor doesn't throw very much farther than the POB even with its giant reflector.

I found a site selling Costco HIDs, I might get this one next year. http://www.hidfoglight.com/productsAndServices/hidSpotlight.html

Is your Costco HID as long as the 15mcp Thor? My Pro's Favorite is one or two inches shorter than the Thor but has a wider, thicker body. Does the Costco have a slightly larger reflector than the 15mcp?

I am wondering if the Pro's Favorite is larger than the Costco HID, because after looking at the pictures you took for me a while back I can tell the Pro's Favorite is at least as big as the Costco HID.
When placed next to the 15mcp Thor and the 15mcp SMARTBEAM, the Pro's Favorite looks noticeably larger than either of them.


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## Ra (May 23, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Regarding incan and HID spotslights, they all have some degree of "hotspot" "corona" and "spill." Any light with an op reflector is going to give side spill. It's just physics. All those little dimples and bumps cause the light to be spread randomly in many directions. Smooth reflectors will give the least spill, textured reflectors will give more spill.
> 
> The very nature of incandescent filaments prevents then from having a beam that remotely resembles the beam of a short-arc light, like the Maxabeam. The same can be said for textured reflectors. The fact that the light your talking about has both would put it even farther from short-arc similarity than even smooth reflectored HID lights. The smaller the point source of light is the better it can be focused. Incandescent filaments are larger than and HID arc, and HID arcs are larger than short-arcs. The larger the point source of light the less that light can be focused. If a given incandescent filament is 4 times larger than a given HID arc, then the incan lamp would need a reflector 4 times the size in order to collimate the beam to the same degree as the HID. Our friendly optical engineer and CPFer *Ra* can correct me if there is a disproportional gain or loss, but if I remember correctly it's a 1:1 ratio. :thumbsup:




I've nothing to add! Perfect!


And BlueBeam,

A little remark about the nearly perfect bulb lineup: Led's are moving upwards fast!
I already managed to make a Cree Q5 have the same surface brightness as most Halogen's !
Not sure how much life I get from the Cree that way, good heatsinking is very important at +1.5 amps! But it still works after a few months of testing!
So I think it's safe to say that led's have surpassed the non-halogen incand's..on surface brightness that is...


All the best,

Ra.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 23, 2008)

Ra said:


> I've nothing to add! Perfect!
> 
> 
> And BlueBeam,
> ...


 
Thanks Ra!

How many torchlumens does your Q5 output? I saw your thread about the Microblaster, very nice light!:thumbsup:

And one other question:
When you shine the Maxabeam or Maxablaster on a wall, do they actually have a much brighter hotspot than a standard 35W automotive HID spotlight, or do they look the same? I know they have much higher surface brightness and the short-arcs allow them to throw like lasers.

I imagine your Maxablaster would easily beat my 10mw green laser in throw!


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## BVH (May 23, 2008)

Blue, not sure if you know this. The Battery Junction Mega Illuminator is the refined Costco HID. Made by the same Company, same castings, etc. Improvements are a better reflector (same size), an improved/stronger back door hinge and most important, a 4300K bulb.


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## Patriot (May 23, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> Thanks Patriot36!
> I think I understand how all of the different bulbs line up in throw (focusability), please correct me if I'm wrong.



You're welcome Bluebeam, but thanks and credit to *Ra* because I only know half of what I know from studying his posts. Many of them are still above my head but I hope to understand them more in depth in the future. 





> *Bluebeam*
> The 15mcp Thor's filament looks about 150% as long as the arc globe (and the arc) in my POB. The POB puts out 800 more lumens than the Thor.
> So it makes sense that the Thor doesn't throw very much farther than the POB even with its giant reflector.


Right!  I was just looking at the long filament in my cyclops and it's about 250-300% longer than the space between the arc electrodes in the Costco. 





> *Bluebeam
> * I found a site selling Costco HIDs, I might get this one next year. http://www.hidfoglight.com/productsA...Spotlight.html


I would get this one because of all the great improvements:
http://www.batteryjunction.com/mega-illuminator.html

*Edit: BVH*, beat me to the info already. 





> *Buebeam
> *Does the Costco have a slightly larger reflector than the 15mcp?


The diameters are the same but the Costco has a smaller reflector hole and is a little bit deeper than the Thor. 


> > *Bluebeam
> > *the short-arcs allow them to throw like lasers.
> 
> 
> ...


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## BlueBeam22 (May 23, 2008)

Patriot36,

That's interesting the 15mcp Thor and Costco HID have the same size reflectors, that means the Pro's Favorite does have a larger reflector than the Costco! It would be perfect for an HID upgrade. The Pro's Favorite is definitely the best choice for someone who just wants the biggest light available

And thanks for the link, I have been trying to decide between the Costco HID and the upgraded Mega Illuminator for a while, but I do like the Mega Illuminator more, so that's probably the one I will get.

One thing about the 15mcp SMARTBEAM is that it has an extremely shallow reflector, the flat area at the back is about 50% as long as the reflector itself! The SMARTBEAM's reflector is about half as deep as The 15mcp Thor, with a giant flat area at the back where the bulb is. From what I understand, a shallow reflector means less spill and less corona, so this might explain the unusual beam.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 23, 2008)

BVH said:


> Blue, not sure if you know this. The Battery Junction Mega Illuminator is the refined Costco HID.


 
Thanks BVH!

The Mega Illuminator does look much better than the original Costco HID. I have wanted one for a long time, and I do plan on buying one. The 4200K bulb really makes a huge difference, I know this because the bulb in my Pro's Favorite is a lower color temperature like that, and it is so much better than the 6000K POB HID.


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## Patriot (May 23, 2008)

Sounds like that light is begging for a HID conversion then! 



I should be able to post those beamshots that I promised tonight with underexposed comparisons between the POB and Cyclops. That reminds me, I want to go give that thing another top off charge.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 23, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Sounds like that light is begging for a HID conversion then!
> 
> 
> 
> I should be able to post those beamshots that I promised tonight with underexposed comparisons between the POB and Cyclops. That reminds me, I want to go give that thing another top off charge.


 
I am excited about the pictures!

When Harbor Freight used to sell the orange Costco HID they rated it "30 million candlepower", so the Costco HID has 30 million candlepower! (You probably already knew this).


The Sunforce 25mcp appears to be exactly the same as my SMARTBEAM 15mcp, but with an HID bulb. The Sunforce version must be 25mcp because HID throws so much farther.
The SMARTBEAM doesn't have a bright "hotspot" at all compared to the 15mcp Thor, so even with the HID bulb I don't think it would be nearly as bright as the Costco HID.

My point is that since the Costco HID is 30mcp, now we know that it is a level-up from the Sunforce 25mcp. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200342907_200342907

You have the "top" light!

I just thought this was an interesting comparison to share with you.


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## Patriot (May 23, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> When Harbor Freight used to sell the orange Costco HID they rated it "30 million candlepower", so the Costco HID has 30 million candlepower!
> 
> 
> My point is that since the Costco HID is 30mcp, now we know that it is a level-up from the Sunforce 25mcp. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200342907_200342907
> ...






You're killing me Blue!!!  

I'm am just funning with ya, by the way. I know that you're trying to learn this stuff. 

The, "millions of candle power" that is printed on so many of these spot lights is nothing but pure non-sense. It has absolutely nothing to do with actual candle power and everything to do with advertising and marketing to consumers without a clue. I can't remember the exact candle power of the "15mcp" Thor, but I think it was around 400,000. Somebody please correct me if I'm way off base. 

So candle power figures are probably the most misused, loose cannon term in the entire spotlight industry. It' means zero!

To better estimate differences between light we use calculated lumens or measured lux with a light meter. The only way to measure actual lumens is with a device called an integrating sphere and it's a very expensive instrument that few light makers have or are willing to search out and use. An integrating sphere large enough to measure spotlights is even more rare and more expensive. That's why these Chinese, mass produces lights sold at Targer, Walmart, and auto stores compete with each other with bogus figures. It's too expensive to test them and in the end it doesn't matter to the consumer purchasing them. All they know is that it's big and bright. One day you'll probably run into a "40mcp" spot light and it will have the same bulb as your others. 

So, compare bulb lumens not advertised "CP" ratings. :thumbsup:


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## BlueBeam22 (May 23, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> You're killing me Blue!!!
> 
> I'm am just funning with ya, by the way. I know that you're trying to learn this stuff.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Patriot36

:laughing: LOL, I have always known the "candlepower" ratings are bogus!
I think the best I have ever heard was that an overdriven Thor could produce 1 million candlepower, far from "15 million candlepower"!

I think the Costco HID would be much brighter than that "25mcp" because the SMARTBEAM's reflector is NOT as large as the 15mcp Thor's (I actually measured exactly 8'', the 15mcp Thor is 8.5'') and the reflector is a shallow, orange peel. So knowing the facts, that 25mcp HID version would not compare to the Costco HID!:thumbsup:

The way I see it the Costco HID is still higher in "stature" than the 25mcp, just because of the candlepower rating. So I should have mentioned that before.

Knowing how powerful the Maxabeam is with only a true 7mcp, the 15mcp Thor and the Costco HID would be able to brightly illuminate high clouds and throw for a few miles if they really lived up to their ratings!

PS. If I ever see a 40mcp spotlight (which I probably will) I will buy it right then and there regardless of whether it has the same bulb/reflector as the ones I have!:laughing:


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## Patriot (May 23, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> I think the Costco HID would be much brighter than that "25mcp" because the SMARTBEAM's reflector is NOT as large as the 15mcp Thor's (I actually measured exactly 8'', the 15mcp Thor is 8.5'') and the reflector is a shallow, orange peel. So knowing the facts, that 25mcp HID version would not compare to the Costco HID!:thumbsup:





When talking about a light being *brighter* that's usually referring to overall output or lumens. The size of the reflector has nothing to do with the lumen or "output" of the light. When discussing *throw *the reflector size and surface absolutely is an important factor.

To compare the brightness of the two lights you mentioned, look no further than the bulb lumens. 130W H4 = 2400 lumens with a perfect battery, Costco HID = about 3200 or a bit less. 
:twothumbs






Any yes, that 1mcp figure sounds about right for the 15mcp thor. Thanks


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## BlueBeam22 (May 23, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> When talking about a light being *brighter* that's usually referring to overall output or lumens. The size of the reflector has nothing to do with the lumen or "output" of the light. When discussing *throw *the reflector size and surface absolutely is an important factor.
> 
> To compare the brightness of the two lights you mentioned, look no further than the bulb lumens. 130W H4 = 2400 lumens with a perfect battery, Costco HID = about 3200 or a bit less.
> :twothumbs
> ...


 

You're right!

Since I know the Costco HID has the same size reflector as the 15mcp Thor, and the SMARTBEAM's is smaller, shallower, and rougher than the 15mcp Thor and the Costco, it is certain that the Sunforce 25mcp wouldn't stand a chance against the Costco in terms of throw and hotspot brightness (If I'm correct that my SMARTBEAM has the same reflector as the Sunforce HID, which I'm sure it must).

And when I compare brightness, I am always referring to hotspot brightness because when two or more lights are shined on a surface at the same time, the one with the brighter hotspot will look brighter. I could have been more clear.

*EDIT:* Using the correct measurement of brightness like you said, the Costco HID and the Sunforce would put out exactly the same amount of light since they both use 35W HIDs unless the ballasts are different.


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## Patriot (May 24, 2008)

Underexposed beamshot images of "15mcp" Cyclops and POB







Bulb tuned POB vs. hot off the charger bulb tuned Cyclops.

F8.0 1/200th ISO100





F8.0 1/1000th ISO100





F8.0 1/2000th ISO100






As you can see the POB hotspot is brighter as is the corona, including the (unseen in this photo) spill light. 

There ya have it. 



Just for fun,

PH50 and "15mcp" Cyclops











Same camera settings as above photos













:naughty:


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## BlueBeam22 (May 24, 2008)

Thank you so much Patriot36.

Those are really great pictures, they really do "tell a story" about the lights.

The PH50 makes the 15mcp Thor look like a dying Maglite and the POB look like a little LED flashlight!


Your PH50 makes my Pro's Favorite look like an AA Maglite!:devil:


Thanks so much for the great pics!!!:twothumbs


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## BlueBeam22 (May 24, 2008)

Patriot36,

When I shine my Pro's Favorite and my POB HID on a wall 30 feet away, the hotspot of the Pro's Favorite looks about 30% brighter to me.
I remember you said the hotspot of your Costco HID is a lot brighter than the POB's hotspot, would you say it is about 50% brighter?

I will be taking some pictures for you today of my lights, are there any specific comparisons of my lights you would like to see? I have a digital camera so I can't do under-exposed images, sorry. I will do some beamshots on a wall and size comparisons of my brightest lights. I will post them as soon as I can.


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## Patriot (May 24, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> Patriot36,
> 
> I remember you said the hotspot of your Costco HID is a lot brighter than the POB's hotspot, would you say it is about 50% brighter?





Hi,

There is really no way for me to determine a percentage. Greatly underexposing the beams makes them at least study-able but without a lux meter a numerical value cant be put on the hotspot imo.




> *Bluebeam
> *I have a digital camera so I can't do under-exposed images, sorry.




Perhaps you mean that your digital camera isn't capable of performing manual exposures? In that case it's going to be difficult to compare anything with pictures. When the camera tries to photograph that kind of bright image the auto exposure usually lacks enough compensation to reveal any detail. Often they will appear washed out. It's kinda like waking up in the middle of the dark night and immediately shinning one of your big spotlights are the ceiling. The eyes can't compensate enough to view the beam in any detail. 

I guess it's worth a try.


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## BlueBeam22 (May 24, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Hi,
> 
> There is really no way for me to determine a percentage. Greatly underexposing the beams makes them at least study-able but without a lux meter a numerical value cant be put on the hotspot imo.
> 
> ...


 
That's right, but I will take pictures of the lights so you can see their sizes and you will be able to see the color temperatures of the beams. I have taken pictures of the beams before and like you said they just show up over-exposed and completely white.


If you shine the POB and the 15mcp Thor in exactly the same place with both hotspots on top of each other, does the combined hotspot look as bright or brighter than the Costco's hotspot?

Pictures to come by tonight!

UPDATE: I took all of the pictures, and I will post them tomorrow.
That is the picture I took of my SMARTBEAM 15mcp in my avatar.


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## Patriot (May 25, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> If you shine the POB and the 15mcp Thor in exactly the same place with both hotspots on top of each other, does the combined hotspot look as bright or brighter than the Costco's hotspot?




I haven't tried this but the combined effect would be brighter.

Avatar looks great! :thumbsup:


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## BlueBeam22 (May 25, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> I haven't tried this but the combined effect would be brighter.
> 
> Avatar looks great! :thumbsup:


 
Thanks Patriot36, and I really like your new signature line!

I'll try to get the pictures posted by tonight, I'm sorry about the wait.


Here is a light that looks VERY similar to my 15mcp SMARTBEAM http://www.hammacher.com/publish/73455.asp because it appears to have a similar body, similar reflector ring, and maybe the same reflector as the SMARTBEAM.

EDIT: The one on the website has a 60/? watt H4 and my SMARTBEAM has an 80/40 watt H4, so my SMARTBEAM is clearly a level-up from the silver one.

Here is a website that is claiming that it is "The brightest flashlight in the world", which is interesting, but not true!
http://www.thegreenhead.com/2005/10/15-million-candlepower.php


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## Flashanator (May 26, 2008)

You love ur halogen spots dont ya Bluebeam :thumbsup:

From that site claiming it to be the worlds brightest:

_"I should just buy two of these and use them together for a 30 million candlepower flashlight"_


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## BlueBeam22 (May 26, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> You love ur halogen spots dont ya Bluebeam :thumbsup:
> 
> From that site claiming it to be the worlds brightest:
> 
> _"I should just buy two of these and use them together for a 30 million candlepower flashlight"_


 
:laughing::lolsign: Yes, I do like my halogens! My SMARTBEAM is my favorite, that's why I used a picture of it for my avatar.


If I'm not mistaken, my 15mcp SMARTBEAM is a slightly modified version of the one on the website because it has a different body color and a higher wattage bulb.

Even when the 80/40 watt 15mcp SMARTBEAM is on "120 watt mode" where both filaments are lit, my Power On Board HID searchlight still has a brighter hotspot and it puts out more light.

However, the 60 watt version is supposed to be the "Worlds brightest flashlight".:laughing:


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## adamlau (May 26, 2008)

Canon SD1000
ISO Setting: 100
Lens Aperture: F2.8
Exposure: 1 Second
White Balance: Tungsten

Cyclops Thor 15MCP





AmondoTech Illuminator (4200K)





Cyclops Thor 15MCP





AmondoTech Illuminator (4200K)





*Image Processing Notes*

1. Minimal unsharp masking (T=75) applied to offset downsizing image blur.
2. Brightness levels increased in order to reveal over and underexposed details.
3. Lossless PNG was used as a compromise between maximum artifact and file size reduction.
4. Zoomed images processed with PhotoZoom Pro 2 (S-Spline XL, Photo - Detailed)


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## BlueBeam22 (May 26, 2008)

Thank you adamlau, great beamshots!


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## Patriot (May 26, 2008)

Nice Adam.

The tungsten white balance really bluifies the beam doesn't it. It does the same thing on my camera. When set to "daylight" is makes the beam yellow with a tint of green.


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## [email protected] (Jun 3, 2008)

I voted NO as I don't see a need (personally) to own anymore BIG incandescent spotlights, if one did happen to fall into my lap (so to speak) it'd be destined for a HID upgrade other than that I wouldn't mind pursuing one of those Vector Twins (also for a HID upgrade) :thumbsup:


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## Lunal_Tic (Jun 3, 2008)

Anybody got an idea of what kind of power supply it would take to run a Thor off AC? I know my charger wouldn't have enough juice to light it up but what about a laptop power supply? 

I'd like to be able to run it from AC while out on my balcony. I remember reading somewhere that it's a bit under powered on the SLA battery and was hoping for a bit of a boost in power too.

-LT


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## BVH (Jun 3, 2008)

Theoretically, 100 Watts divided by 12 Volts would dictate an 8.5 Amp power supply if your talking about a Thor 10 which uses the 100 Watt/12 Volt lamp. You should be able to feed it in through the DC input jack just as you can run them off a cigarette lighter adapter from a vehicle. A 13.5 to 14 Volts PS would be even better (closer to the operating Voltage when the engine is running) and I'd try to get something more towards 12 to 14 Amps so you're not running it at max all the time.


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## Lunal_Tic (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I'll keep my eye out. Due to the sag under load do you think I'd be OK with a 15V unit? I don't know how common 13.5-14V PS would be but I've seen 15V units before if not in the higher amp range.

-LT


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## BVH (Jun 3, 2008)

Well, I just tried using my Pyramid PS-14Kx - a 13.8 Volt, 12 Amp Constant, 14 Amp surge PS and it goes into fault. I guess the surge load is more than 14 Amps? That sounds a bit strange to me. What about one of the common automotive hand-held jump start units you can buy for $50 or so? They usually have at least a 15 AH lead acid battery in them. Find one with a 20 Amp battery and you ought to be able to get 3 or 4 hours run time. Then just charge it back up. It will double as an emergency jump starter.


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## AlexGT (Jun 3, 2008)

I was first going to buy a 10mcp thor to mod to Hid but this one has been a better spotlight, the reflector is deeper than the 6.5mcp and throws very good, and the CFL and Leds makes it more useful

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1390433#post1390433


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## Lunal_Tic (Jun 3, 2008)

BVH said:


> Well, I just tried using my Pyramid PS-14Kx - a 13.8 Volt, 12 Amp Constant, 14 Amp surge PS and it goes into fault. I guess the surge load is more than 14 Amps? That sounds a bit strange to me. What about one of the common automotive hand-held jump start units you can buy for $50 or so? They usually have at least a 15 AH lead acid battery in them. Find one with a 20 Amp battery and you ought to be able to get 3 or 4 hours run time. Then just charge it back up. It will double as an emergency jump starter.



Geez, more than 14A this may be harder than I thought. I'd been thinking about a place that carries all sorts of PSs for electronics but I guess I'll have to find somewhere with heavier duty stuff. I was hoping to rig this as a quick and easy spotlight to fire out at the river about 400-500 yards away. 

With the internal SLA it's just not quite as powerful as I'd like though the beam is about right. At that distance my HIDs just hose everything between me and the river and could make for some not so happy folk.

I'll cruise by an auto parts store when I get a chance and see what they've got.

Thanks for the info,
-LT


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