# Ti Arc AAA...



## bmstrong (Sep 4, 2006)

We need a Titanium Arc AAA! Maybe a CPF edition? Let's show Peter the looong line so he'll consider making a couple runs.

 

I'm in for 2...


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## xdanx (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm in for one!


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## TENMMIKE (Sep 4, 2006)

+1


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## mateen (Sep 5, 2006)

+1 please!


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## jar3ds (Sep 5, 2006)

acually...

i'm not a big fan of Ti due to its heat properties and such..

but on a light like the arc that doesn't get hot... a Ti version would be really nice.... a steel version wouldn't be bad either but its heavy


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## Isak Hawk (Sep 5, 2006)

Ti Arc AAA with anodized threads? mmMMMmm  I'm in for 2 at least!

Make it a two stage with a nicely tinted luxeon (without increasing size, at least not much) and I'm in heaven!


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## cy (Sep 5, 2006)

totally in for one!

hah.. it'll never happen


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## ACMarina (Sep 5, 2006)

I'd buy one..


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## fasteddie (Sep 5, 2006)

I'd buy a few.


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## brotherbob (Sep 5, 2006)

It all depends on the price point. If reasonable I'll buy. These lights are already a llittle higher then they should be.


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## mchlwise (Sep 5, 2006)




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## NeonLights (Sep 5, 2006)

If they weren't priced more than $70-80 I'd buy a Ti ARC AAA-P. Even if it was closer to $100 I might buy one on impulse. I carry my current ARC AAA-P on a titanium chain around my neck, it would be great if the ARC light was Ti too.

-Keith


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## russtang (Sep 5, 2006)

Read this thread. I dont think Peter wants anything to do with a Ti AAA-p.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/114303


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## fluorescent (Sep 5, 2006)

I would prefer a tint that is whiter than a body that is lighter..

( Poet and didn't know it )


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## russtang (Sep 5, 2006)

Maybe one of our members with cnc connections could get a run of them done.?


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## Virgo (Sep 5, 2006)

The title of this thread nearly gave me a heart-attack.:laughing: I would definitely be in for at least a few of them, as would many others. I haven't read the thread a couple posts up yet, but would be very surprised (pleasantly, of course), if Arc made a Ti version.


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## Lebkuecher (Sep 5, 2006)

I'm in for one and while we are dreaming I would like to request SN 001


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## chesterqw (Sep 5, 2006)

SS or NS or platinium!!!(ok i admit the last one is crazy)


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## Morelite (Sep 5, 2006)

chesterqw said:


> SS or NS or platinium!!!(ok i admit the last one is crazy)


 
crazy would be Rhodium, about $4,800 an ounce, sure would be purdy though.


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## coyote (Sep 6, 2006)

i'm in!


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## billybright (Sep 7, 2006)

yes please!


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## Alaric Darconville (Sep 7, 2006)

I'm a sucker for CPF Editions...


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## JoeBob (Sep 7, 2006)

I would gladly spring for a Ti AAA.
Maybe two, one just to put away.


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## Cliffnopus (Sep 7, 2006)

I'll wait for the Damascus one. :laughing: 

Cliff


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## skalomax (Sep 7, 2006)

Im In!! This light will be awesome!


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## [email protected] Messenger (Sep 7, 2006)

I'm gonna wait for one made of RADO hardmetal or Tungsten carbide


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## SteveStephens (Sep 7, 2006)

A Ti Arc AAA might interest me but I think I'd rather have a SS one. Prettier metal and very durable. Heavy yes, but I never feel my Peak SS pocket Matterhorn 3 LED in my pocket and when I go fishing for it I can easily feel the heft.

Steve
_____________


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## [email protected] Messenger (Sep 9, 2006)

deleted


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## Morelite (Sep 9, 2006)

[email protected] Messenger said:


> Get these guys to coat an arc made of ti in diamond and I'll be interested (probably alot of people would if they are up for the price :naughty: )
> http://www.sp3inc.com/thckfilm.htm
> 
> Now THAT would catch my eye


 
Don't expect any real eye appeal to TFd coatings. TFd has a dull gray finish to it.


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## xochi (Sep 9, 2006)

Standard excuse is that reaming out the tube would break tools and be a royal PITA. 

Peak made ti lights from tubeing and plans on having some out in november/december (best laid plans of mice and men etc). I don't think that Arc has the resources to have many irons in the fire at this point.


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## xochi (Sep 9, 2006)

Also,

I'd like an Arc AAA made out of cookies. But , then again, I live for the perversly absurd.


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## Kris (Sep 10, 2006)

+ 3 please


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## faco (Sep 10, 2006)

Yes Please, one for me too


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## KeyGrip (Sep 18, 2006)

I'll take one, providing it's raw, polished Ti so as I can do my own anodizing.


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## Jedi Knife (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm in.


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## kiely23+ (Sep 23, 2006)

AAA-ARC Ti...


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## lildave (Oct 22, 2006)

i fiftyh it


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## marcdilnutt (Oct 22, 2006)

Peter really should do a run of these, i would be after one or two of them.
marc


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## tdurand (Oct 22, 2006)

A two or three stage Ti AAA for me please!

:rock:


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## red_robby (Oct 22, 2006)

even I would buy one


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## photorob (Oct 22, 2006)




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## InfidelCastro (Oct 22, 2006)

I'll take an Arc AAA-P in titanium with camo HAIII finish! 

Only problem is, I wouldn't want to use it then! Shelf queen all the way.


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## redskins38 (Oct 22, 2006)

im in


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## mosport (Oct 22, 2006)

Peter's revealed his thoughts on a Ti AAA already, but in case he changes his mind...


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## ViReN (Oct 22, 2006)

+1 with Cree XR-E @ 5mA/25mA/50mA/100mA 4 Levels producing between 2 and 35 Lumens

TI - It has to be a special one....


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## skalomax (Oct 23, 2006)

ViReN said:


> +1 with Cree XR-E @ 5mA/25mA/50mA/100mA 4 Levels producing between 2 and 35 Lumens
> 
> TI - It has to be a special one....


 
You're a Crazy one!  
And so am I. Ill take one too!


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## seaward (Oct 27, 2006)

That would be awesome!


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## reptiles (Nov 5, 2006)

How about cast Ti Arc AAA? 

=Mark


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## colubrid (Nov 6, 2006)

Call me simple and cheap but i always wanted an ARC AAA with no treads on it. Just basic polished SS. ..shiney and smooooth...oh ya!


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Nov 6, 2006)

YEAH !! how about an Ti arc aaa with a SXOH for a whiter brighter beam :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: ......wait a minute, doesn`t a Draco already do this but BETTER


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## Neg2LED (Nov 10, 2006)

me! pick me! but only if its not too expensive. call me 'tenative'

--neg


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## PoliceScannerMan (Nov 10, 2006)

I love Ti. But knurling IMO doesnt get much better than Arc AAA knurling....


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## jch79 (Nov 10, 2006)

I agree PSM... without knurling, I wouldn't be interested in a Ti Arc AAA... it's just too great of a feature with that light.


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## cbclemons (Jan 21, 2007)

Definately in for one!


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## StuGatz (Jan 27, 2007)

It would be nice to see...

Stuart


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## bmstrong (Nov 2, 2007)

Bump! With the updated AAA's out and Peter's use of titanium in the LS bezel and clip I thought I'd rescue this from the forgotten lands of time.

I'd still like to see a 6/4 Titanium Arc AAA. Anyone else?


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## Dances with Flashlight (Nov 2, 2007)

bmstrong said:


> Bump! With the updated AAA's out and Peter's use of titanium in the LS bezel and clip I thought I'd rescue this from the forgotten lands of time.
> 
> I'd still like to see a 6/4 Titanium Arc AAA. Anyone else?




Of course! Just when it seemed like it couldn't get any better...


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## Hodsta (Nov 2, 2007)

Count me in PayPal ready.


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## x923x (Nov 2, 2007)

I'd be down for a few! :twothumbs


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## nyyankeefen (Nov 2, 2007)

yes please


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## Groundhog66 (Nov 2, 2007)

:thumbsup:


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## skalomax (Nov 2, 2007)

Here too.


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## paulr (Nov 2, 2007)

I'd want it without knurling, with some fluting in the head for a good grip. Sort of like this old countycomm prototype which was made of stainless steel.


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## :)> (Nov 2, 2007)

Bring it on. Paypal is ready. Do a run of 50 and count me in for 1 of them! Just make sure to center them emitters


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## Tempest UK (Nov 3, 2007)

Me please


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## PhantomPhoton (Nov 3, 2007)

Oh god yes!


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## Penguin (Nov 3, 2007)

I'll take AT LEAST one!


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## dmdrewitt (Nov 3, 2007)

Sign me up please :thumbsup:


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## easilyled (Nov 3, 2007)

Count me in too.


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## faco (Nov 3, 2007)

Yes Please :thumbsup:


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## Congcongke (Nov 26, 2007)

Wonderful:thumbsup:
Two for me please.


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## cy (Nov 26, 2007)

ti ARC AAA deserves bleeding edge technology! 

while we are dreaming, let's do it right. 

ti ARC AAA with Cree and two stage stage (aka miller mods) 
make low beam same brightness as std ARC AAA, hi beam driven at >150 millamps for reasonable runtime on high. 

would still put out 25+ lumens out front end. which is plenty for 90%+ of all lighting uses. this would give 10+ hours runtime on low. 30+ min on high from AAA alk. 

sure you could drive it at 350+ milliamp, but what use is 8 minutes or so.. of runtime on high?


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## Dances with Flashlight (Nov 26, 2007)

faco said:


> Yes Please :thumbsup:



Me too.


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## DesertFox (Nov 26, 2007)

I would definitely buy at least one.:thumbsup:


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## mikes1 (Nov 27, 2007)

Two for me :thumbsup:


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## bmstrong (Nov 27, 2007)

Hopefully, Peter is listening. This would make a nice X-Mas gift.

This thread keeps on rolling!


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## alanagnostic (Nov 28, 2007)

One for me please.:thumbsup:


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## RainerWahnsinn (Nov 29, 2007)

and one for me too, please!


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## hoppyjr (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh Peeeeterrrrrr..........


I also thing this would be a grand idea. I'd prepay for at least a couple Ti ARC AAA's.

Hoppy


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## gjg (Nov 30, 2007)

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this one to happen, but just in case I'm in for two...
Greg :thumbsup:


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## Stillphoto (Nov 30, 2007)

As much as I'd love one, I know this wont be a reality. I'll eat my words if it does happen (yes I'll print them out and pour some hot sauce or something on there and gobble them down.

Unfortunately with Peter having a hard enough time as it is finding reliable machinists / shops to work with, finding one that would put up with the trials and tribulations (lots of busted bits / scrapped ti from mistakes) would be impossible and or too costly.

That said, I'm in lol. 

And yes I'd video myself eating said words and post to youtube.


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## alex in germany (Dec 1, 2007)

Stillphoto said:


> And yes I'd video myself eating said words and post to youtube.



Peter, this is the best reason to make some titanium ARC´s :nana:

I´m in for one............:wave:


Alex


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## Donny Dont (Dec 1, 2007)

bmstrong said:


> This would make a nice X-Mas gift.


 
A gift for us this Christmas? Or gifts for us to give next Christmas?

I am in.

Joe


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## bmstrong (Dec 1, 2007)

>>A gift for us this Christmas?

This X-Mas. 

There's no good reason this shouldn't have been done or couldn't get done in time. Like it or not Titanium is here to stay. Even Surefire, slow to change, has jumped on the bus. Given the Titan's sucess I'm willing to bet it won't be the last Ti they put out.

Let's see this one done. It doesn't have to be complicated. Just keep it simple and keep it all Ti!


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## iconoclast (Dec 7, 2007)

may as well add me to this hypothetical list. if they existed, I'd buy at least one. probably two, depending on price.


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## marcdilnutt (Dec 8, 2007)

Count me in for one or two, preferably with the snow led. I think that would be just about my perfect light.


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## craigberesh (Dec 8, 2007)

+1


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 8, 2007)

I continue to wonder why the big desire for Ti, especially in such a small light as the Arc-AAA. It's going to add so much additional weight, it will feel like a fishing sinker.


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## :)> (Dec 8, 2007)

For me, titanium is appealing because:

I like the way that it looks,
It is a relatively rare material for flashlights and this rarity increases my joy of ownership,
It is reasonably light and exceptionally strong and durable,
It is non-corrosive
In my opinion, it is THE preferred material to build the AAA-P out of because of these qualities; it should make an already bomb-proof light even more so.


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## Dances with Flashlight (Dec 8, 2007)

Agree completely with Goatee. To see an upgrade to the beautiful, bombproof AAA-P I already love is worth the wait, however long.


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 8, 2007)

:)> said:


> For me, titanium is appealing because:
> 
> I like the way that it looks,
> It is a relatively rare material for flashlights and this rarity increases my joy of ownership,
> ...



Sorry guys. I beg to differ. As far as looks, I can't argue that with you. If you like the looks, than great. "Relatively" rare is probably accureate, although there are at least (3) makers with Ti flashlights. Compared to the Arc-AAA sitting in your pocket right now, a Ti version will be heavier. It will feel at least 50% heavier. Non-Corrosive? When's the last time you had a light corrode?

I'm not arguing, just trying debate the real usefullness of a Ti Arc-AAA light.


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## Gothmog (Dec 8, 2007)

Would take one


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## Gransee (Dec 9, 2007)

T_I_N is right, from a functional perspective, Ti does not provide much that the current refined Arc-AAA lacks. In this particular application, the advantages of Ti are mostly cosmetic or rarety for the sake of rarety. As you know, that's doesn't float with me. 

On the CPF, you have your choice of many manufacturers. If you are looking for appearances, you have lots of choices. 

Don't get me wrong, I like Ti where it provides an advantage. Our wedding rings were made out of the same bar of 64V. Compared to what rings are normally made of, our rings don't scratch as much and they are noticably lighter. 

For the new LS, I have opted to use a small amount of 64V for the bezel. And this is because the Ti brings something significantly functional to that part. In most flashlights, the bezel is the weakest part and that is where most drops hit the ground. Lights with secondary optics tend to have thin walls at their bezel. In normal use, I have see Al bezels dented enough to make it difficult to service the optics. However, it is rare to see an Arc-AAA be dented enough to reduce its functionality. 

Furthermore, with the Arc-AAA, it doesn't make it lighter, it makes it heavier. It doesn't make it more scratch resistant, it makes it less scratch resistant (Type III is harder than Ti), Ti is also less conductive and more expensive. 

When I own a nice looking tool, I feel guilty if it looks nice because it sacrificed what it means to be a tool. However, if it looks nice because it is a good tool, then that is a bonus. 

Look at the F-16. It wasn't made to look pretty. Its appearance is a product of its functional design. That's more beautiful than something that was designed to please the eyes first. 

With effort, we can change our perception of what is beautiful to mean something that is less functional just like we can crave things that are sweet. I worry about that. Then we will be dominated by devices that are meant to please our fickle superficiality. Devices that don't last, that don't save us time and we can never seem to have enough. 


I get excited when an improvement to a design makes it twice as efficient or twice as bright or longer battery life, smaller, etc. 

peter


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## :)> (Dec 9, 2007)

Gransee said:


> In this particular application, the advantages of Ti are mostly cosmetic or rarety for the sake of rarety. As you know, that's doesn't float with me.



I feel like I am being singled out here:nana:... but that won't stop me from buying many of your LS lights OR your Ti AAA-P when you make it

I am going to increase my buy commitment to (2) of the AAA-P's in Titanium.


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## iconoclast (Dec 10, 2007)

Gransee said:


> T_I_N is right, from a functional perspective, Ti does not provide much that the current refined Arc-AAA lacks. In this particular application, the advantages of Ti are mostly cosmetic or rarety for the sake of rarety. As you know, that's doesn't float with me.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



I agree with your notion on tools and their function being of primary importance (and even the justification for their existence). It's a waste if it looks pretty on the shelf and doesn't actually get used.
That said, cosmetics are important too, at least for me. I wouldn't have a less functional flashlight (or other tool) just because it looks nicer, but if I have my choice between ones that work equally well (for whatever criteria is important for the task) then the "form" provides bonus points for the selection process.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Arc-AAA-p and use it often. But it doesn't get edc'd, and an Arc-AAA-p in ti or even in HA-III black, would get carried more. 

I've had HA-III lights get visibly dinged from a fall onto concrete, though it fairness they've been much bigger and had heavier batteries than the entire Arc-AAA light.
Nevertheless, the titanium lights I've dropped have only need to have their scuffs polished out. None of these drops have been intentional, so I don't have apples-to-apples comparison with exactly the same size/weight lights, etc. but for me the ti is more functional than the HA-III aluminum, even if it's technically less scratch resistant. Whether that's a fair trade off for your needs or whether or not it justifies the price increase are decisions each buyer will need to make for them selves. As for me, I think viewing ti as just cosmetic is a bit of an oversimplification. 

So yes, I understand the reasons for not being inclined to make a ti Arc. But if such a thing were made, I'd buy two (one for a gift) and both would get regular use as a tool. And for my purposes I would feel the increased usefulness justified the price of the ti. 
If it doesn't happen, then I'll just keep hoping for an Arc-LS in HA-III black. :devil:


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## Manzerick (Dec 10, 2007)

Very well said!!! A man true to "function" over "fashion"




Gransee said:


> the advantages of Ti are mostly cosmetic or rarety for the sake of rarety. As you know, that's doesn't float with me.
> 
> peter


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## HoopleHead (Dec 23, 2007)

i would buy a special edition Ti Arc-P, and at a premium, to give you more funds to apply towards making other more functional, non-cosmetic and non-rare enhancements


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## Stillphoto (Dec 23, 2007)

I bought a piece of ti barstock at an amazing price a while back in the hopes of having it milled into a ti aaa style light. After asking around I figured out that no shop would be willing to crank out such a thing in my price range, and especially with only one piece to try it on. DOH!


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## Neg2LED (Dec 23, 2007)

Sounds interesting, color me .

--neg


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## paulr (Dec 23, 2007)

I sort of thought of buying P. Baltic in Ti but missed their xmas sale and am not sure it was included anyway.


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## McGizmo (Dec 25, 2007)

Gransee said:


> T_I_N is right, from a functional perspective, Ti does not provide much that the current refined Arc-AAA lacks. In this particular application, the advantages of Ti are mostly cosmetic or rarety for the sake of rarety. As you know, that's doesn't float with me.
> 
> ..........................
> 
> ...



As a Ti advocate, and recently self armed with some ammo, I feel compelled to take a few shots across your bow. :nana:

Beyond cosemtics, bling and snob appeal, I think Ti does have something of a functional nature to add to a light. Longevity. Now longevity has no merit or significance if one plans to replace the light as soon as the next generation of LED hits the scene or if the rest of the light can't hold up for the long run with its "shell". In the case of a heavily overdriven LED where lumen maintenance is shortened there is no need for a long lived host.

IMHO, the LED's have now gotten to the point that they can be driven at or below spec and enjoy the longevity that was little more than marketing hype, a few years ago. 

I have a clip and key chain that I use that has seen many many birthdays and still provides me service. I would like to have a small flashlight on that key chain that had a life expectancy similar in nature.

If Peter chose to build some Ti Arc AAA's using a 310 Nichia and driving them at or below 20 mA (A mizer if I may use the term here), I'd pony up for a couple of them. I doubt this is going to happen and I don't question the wisdom in not making such a light even though I don't necessarily agree with it. I realize my preferences are not in sync with the flashlight market.

TIN,
If memory serves (iffy unfortunately), the last Arc AAA I had "in service" was one that I had clipped to my PFD that I wore while paddling my surfski in CA waters. This was a clip it and forget it item along with a sharp Ti knife that was also attached to the PFD. Both were present in the case of emergency and not used. I would rinse the PFD off with fresh water after a paddle but I did not give it or the equipment attached to it any special attention or care. At one point, I looked at the Arc AAA and discovered that the salt exposure had done some obvious if not serious corrosion damage to the light. I don't recall the specifics beyond taking the light off the PFD and tossing it. :shrug: I realize this is not even close to typical use but I offer it in response to:



> When's the last time you had a light corrode?


One last shot regarding Ti. I have convinced myself that I prefer the higher resistance of Ti over that of clean aluminum because once aluminum oxidizes it has a higher resistance than the oxidized Ti. In the long run and with poor maintenance habits (guilty), I expect a better electrical connection and service from a Ti host than that of an aluminum one. Since I am more interested in making light at reasonable levels than heat at unreasonable levels, the thermal advantage of Aluminum is considerably mitigated.


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## Gransee (Dec 26, 2007)

McGizmo said:


> At one point, I looked at the Arc AAA and discovered that the salt exposure had done some obvious if not serious corrosion damage to the light.



Did the aluminum corrode? Now I have seen the split ring corrode in extreme cases. 

peter


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 26, 2007)

Again, we could probably go back and forth on this for days/months, but in my opinion the format of the Arc-AAA does not warrant Ti. Would some people purchase them, just to have? Probably. Would it make the light any "better" or "more functional"? In my opinion, it does not. It only takes-away from what makes the Arc-AAA the Arc-AAA. It will add too much weight to the light. It will probably make the twisting action more difficult to activate. If there's even a handful of Arc's in circulation (out of how many thousands and thousands sold) that have corroded, I'd be extremely surprised. I've purposely used these lights as a file, as a hammer and a pry-bar and as a door-jam. I've never had an issue. If someone wants to build a Ti based 1xAAA light in the Arc-AAA format, then go for it. I'm sure folks will purchase it, just for the fact that it's Ti, but I'm never going to buy the story that it will make the light better (my opinion of better) or more functional.


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## McGizmo (Dec 26, 2007)

Peter,
My example to TIN was weak because I don't recall the particulars. I am pretty sure I had the light on a Ti quick link and a corroded split ring would not have been an issue. I recall the raw Al "reflector" face corroded but don't remember if it had impaired the LED. My example was certainly an "exception" and a poor one at that. 

Tin,

Your opinion is sound and well reasoned. Out of curiosity, I weighed an Arc AAA I have here at 20 grams and a Ti AAA I made weighs in at 26 grams. These were with alkaline batteries. That may well be too heavy. The Ti light I made has similar twist resistance to the Al light. I believe in these lights the brunt of resistance you encounter is that of the O-ring and not the threads but that is a guess.

In my opinion, Ti makes the light better or more preferable. However that comment is made with no regard to cost. Factor in cost and a Ti AAA light becomes a luxury regardless of how one elects to justify it, or not.


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 26, 2007)

Good point about the o-ring making up most of the resistance. Yep, that's what I thought about the weight. That's 30% heavier if I did my math correctly.


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## Finbar (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, as long as we are going to be logical and crap, this will not be any fun.

But, in that light, let us consider the other side of the coin.

As a matter of practicality, is it practical for anyone to own more than one Arc flashlight? Will Arc Flashlight be limiting future purchases to one light per person?

In McGizmo’s elucidating thread
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/88983

we observe certain battery performance increases with a reasonable amount of heat addition. Since Ti has a lower thermal conductivity than aluminum, this would tend to favor the use of Ti.

In cold conditions the titanium would be a better heat “capturer” than aluminum. This would allow longer run times on a given battery. Thus, increasing performance and possibly saving one’s life at altitude or cold temperatures.

McGizmo’s Ti AAA
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/184144

Hardness - MOHS Scale
Talc - 1
Aluminum - 2 to 2.9
Titanium - 5 to 6
Titanium nitride(TiN) - 9
Diamond - 10

Maybe a TiN coating should at least be considered to improve wear over time, instead of HA III. My Draco TiN shows little sign of wear while the chrome version is showing marks.

I have dropped my Arc LSL-ST while parked in my car. It fell two feet at the most. It now has a permanent dent through the HA exposing the aluminum metal.

If I am in the woods and a bear rips out one of my legs, I could easily use the Arc AAA Ti CPF LE 2008 to fashion it into a suitable hip joint replacement. That would allow me to limp to the safety of the hospital nurses.

I am almost certain that Peter would send me a replacement for the Arc AAA Ti CPF LE 2008 that is now stuck in my hip. And I would most definitely be sending in one of them letters to http://www.arcflashlight.com reiterating of the impolite experience I had with said hungry omnivore and the current chunk of titanium residing in my hip and the arduous journey and long convalescence in the safe arms of the hospital nurses.

I think that letter would get published.

Advertisement like that can not be equilibrated in mere terms of dollars or Euros. It is like that credit card advert - “...priceless.”

I would venture a semi-large wager that one thousand of these bear induced life savers could be sold. Did I mention the nurses?

1000 X $100 = $100,000. And that is not chump change...even if the currency is in dollars. 

Besides, one of them laws of business / economics is - if there is a demand, it will be filled.

Give the people what they want! That is what some Emperor dude said.

Will it be :thumbsdow or :thumbsup:?

Let us eat cake! :thumbsup:


Fin


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## strideredc (Dec 28, 2007)

i am in for one,

i dont understand? if a loyal customer base is asking and arc are going to profit then its a no brainer, surely???:shrug:


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## this_is_nascar (Dec 28, 2007)

strideredc said:


> i am in for one,
> 
> i dont understand? if a loyal customer base is asking and arc are going to profit then its a no brainer, surely???:shrug:



That's easy to say, but until it's time for people to put their money where their month is, how is it known that this is profitable to Arc? Sure, a sign-up thread could be started and peopel will stake their claims, then when it's time to collect the funds, only 85% of the folks who committed will fork over the cash.


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## paulr (Dec 30, 2007)

I think I can accept Peter's view that a Ti AAA wouldn't be in the Arc spirit, i.e. Arc lights are supposedly all about engineering and don't try to make artistic or aesthetic statements. HA aluminum makes the most functional sense so those wanting characteristics that don't have good functional justification (this does describe some of us) need to look elsewhere. That said, I sometimes think Peter underestimates himself as a designer and that the visual attractiveness of Arc's lights is one of the factors that keeps us buying them. 

And, I can't help wondering how a Ti AAA would look after being left in a stream for 5 years. Anyone want to start an experiment going?


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## sunspot (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, aluminum does corrode. I have carried a total of 3 Arc's beginning in 2001 only changing because of upgrades.
I don't remember what happened to this one but it polished up real nice and I still have it. It was an AAA-P in it's heyday.


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## Gransee (Jan 1, 2008)

Of course aluminum corrodes, I don't know what I was thinking when I worded my question that way. In fact, we ship the Arc-AAA with the aluminum already in an advanced stage of corrosion.

Dana's picture shows corrosion and wear. And to be sure, a Ti reflector is going to wear much more nicely than a Al reflector. However, the HA coated surfaces are harder than the Ti surfaces and will wear better.

User feedback (read some of the recent threads in this forum) has shown that the HA coated AL Arc-AAA can take a lot of abuse and last a long time. In some situations Ti may last longer or less so.

I agree that Ti is a beautiful metal and I am fine with using it just for that reason in some cases. It is also a very practical metal, which explains its use in industry. 

I am not convinced however, that it best meets the Arc-AAA design goals. 

And keeping with this approach, a Ti bezel does fit in my opinion on the new LS.

peter


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## iocheretyanny (Jan 1, 2008)

Gransee said:


> Of course aluminum corrodes, I don't know what I was thinking when I worded my question that way. In fact, we ship the Arc-AAA with the aluminum already in an advanced stage of corrosion.
> 
> Dana's picture shows corrosion and wear. And to be sure, a Ti reflector is going to wear much more nicely than a Al reflector. However, the HA coated surfaces are harder than the Ti surfaces and will wear better.
> 
> ...




Peter,

You mention "design goals" and "approach" when describing your light designs, and I can respect that. But at the same point why not give folks what they want, even if it bends your "design goals". 
To me if you are in business to make money and to make tools people want, then why not offer what is being asked as a pre-buy, and see if the $$ make sense.. 

Personally I am not sure I would pay for a TI Arc AAA, but seems to me there are many that will.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 1, 2008)

iocheretyanny said:


> Peter,
> 
> You mention "design goals" and "approach" when describing your light designs, and I can respect that. But at the same point why not give folks what they want, even if it bends your "design goals".
> To me if you are in business to make money and to make tools people want, then why not offer what is being asked as a pre-buy, and see if the $$ make sense..
> ...



I don't know why I continue to find myself defending Peter and his decission as it relates to this AAA Ti subject, never the less, you hit the nail on the head. You're not sure you would pay the cost for a Ti Arc AAA. In my case, cost is not an object, but I wouldn't want one because of the added weight. How many people do you really think would really, really, purchase one of these?

Let's try this for sh*ts and giggles. Let's say Arc released an exact clone of the existing Arc AAA DS light, with the only change being the bezel and tube were in Ti as opposed to aluminum and the cost was $175 each.

Who would commit to purchasing one of these? When I say commit, I mean put your money where your mouth is and PAY NOW. In this example, let's say the product would be available by spring-2008.

OK, so let's go. How many want one now?


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## powernoodle (Jan 1, 2008)

Let me jump in here with a couple of things. Random thoughts.

First, the traits which have attracted me to Arcs - namely their simplicity, functionality and absence of bling - would not be bolstered by the addition of Ti. For me, Ti is mostly a bling factor. Nothing wrong with wanting bling, but it doesn't really fit into the Arc paradigm. The design and appearance of an Arc AAA has always reminded me of the "overbuilt" qualities found in armored personnel carriers and the like. That is to say, function trumps everything else. I'm not so sure that Ti would add any function to an Arc.

And second, I'd way rather see an Arc AA DS or something along that line, than an Arc Ti anything.


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## Kiessling (Jan 1, 2008)

For me, ti is not bling, it is useful, but it is not a win-only material. 
The most problematic factors (for a ti Arc AAA, mind you) being weight and price. Those factors might well make it a no-go, but that does not mean that ti is not a very good material for flashlights.
bernie


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## :)> (Jan 1, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> I don't know why I continue to find myself defending Peter and his decission as it relates to this AAA Ti subject, never the less, you hit the nail on the head. You're not sure you would pay the cost for a Ti Arc AAA. In my case, cost is not an object, but I wouldn't want one because of the added weight. How many people do you really think would really, really, purchase one of these?
> 
> Let's try this for sh*ts and giggles. Let's say Arc released an exact clone of the existing Arc AAA DS light, with the only change being the bezel and tube were in Ti as opposed to aluminum and the cost was $175 each.
> 
> ...


 
I think that you will have your answer when McGizmo produces a wave of AAA Titanium lights or if Peter produces some of his fantastic AAA-P's in titanium.

Don's PD's sold for around $250.00 and lasted for quite some time before his supply ran out. His Ti PD-S lights, Ti S27's, Ti XR19C's, Ti Mules, Ti S27Cx2's all sell out in short order and they offer nothing different than an aluminum counterpart except for the Titanium material that the light is made from; even when the cost is roughly double the cost of the aluminum lights. This makes me believe that there is a market at least on CPF for a limited run of the AAA-P lights. 

This phenomenon is not a guarantee that a Ti Arc AAA-P would sell the same way, but it makes a strong case that they would. I don't know if I can tell the difference between an aluminum AAA-P at 20 grams and a titanium AAA-P at around 26 grams but I can tell the difference with my eyes and that is a factor for me. I don't use the AAA-P's that I have hard enough or in a rough enough environment to even require the HAIII finish... but I like it. 

What Peter does with his companies resources is none of my business and I am a fan of Arc regardless of whether or not they produce a titanium AAA-P. He does not have to defend his opinions to me and conversely, I see no reason why I should cease to publicly dream about his lights in titanium... whether there is a strong case for the added cost of the materials used or not.

Happy new year to all; bring on the AAA-P in titanium:twothumbs


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## Gransee (Jan 1, 2008)

I expect our in-house experience with Ti will continue to grow. Starting with the LS and going from there. This will also help us control costs and do smaller runs. It takes time to get there though. 

As far as using all ti in a AAA form factor, I have been wrong before. I am trying to keep an open mind, but to be fair on both sides, some of you guys don't know what the AAA is all about. 

I have said this before: As the manufacturers with lower labor costs (overseas) continue to move into the niche flashlight markets, it is driving the small manufacturers with high labor costs (USA, etc) into more and more rareified niches. One of those niches is custom made vanity pieces. And there is definately money in that but I don't feel right making such pieces. I am still holding out for a well balanced tool. Maybe I am part of the past and profit is no longer to be expected. 

Contrary to conventional wisdom and to the dismay of the owners, I don't leap at every oppratunity for profit. I don't do focus groups or ask you guys what you want. Sometimes I am wrong and sometimes I make a good product that strikes a chord. 

I am not convinced Ti would make the AAA better. I might change my mind in the future, but I don't want to tease you guys. So consider the option is off the table right now. I hate to dissappoint, but I have to pick my battles. 

The plan right now is to finish the LS and continue to make small improvements to the AAA. This year I expect to continue to spend a lot of time on the LS (even after it ships). The plan is to also mount it on a weapon and produce some accessories along that line. I do have about 6 other flashlights written down but I don't think I will get any other major design than the LS for 2008. The Ti AAA is not a major design, but it I don't see sufficient ROI on it right now.

peter


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## nbp (Jan 1, 2008)

> Let's say Arc released an exact clone of the existing Arc AAA DS light, with the only change being the bezel and tube were in Ti as opposed to aluminum and the cost was $175 each.
> 
> Who would commit to purchasing one of these? When I say commit, I mean put your money where your mouth is and PAY NOW.


 
I just got my first arc, the Arc P DS, and I think it is an outstanding light. But I would probably buy one in Ti just for the novelty, not necessarily because it did or did not perform better. $175 is a bit much though. If arc could make one for, say, $100 or less, I would put up for one right away.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 1, 2008)

:)> said:


> I think that you will have your answer when McGizmo produces a wave of AAA Titanium lights or if Peter produces some of his fantastic AAA-P's in titanium.
> 
> Don's PD's sold for around $250.00 and lasted for quite some time before his supply ran out. His Ti PD-S lights, Ti S27's, Ti XR19C's, Ti Mules, Ti S27Cx2's all sell out in short order and they offer nothing different than an aluminum counterpart except for the Titanium material that the light is made from; even when the cost is roughly double the cost of the aluminum lights. This makes me believe that there is a market at least on CPF for a limited run of the AAA-P lights.
> 
> ...



The AAA Ti light that Don has shown is not an Arc-AAA with a Ti casing. Yes, it shares the same circuit (not sure about the LED), but it's not an Arc-AAA in Ti. It's a Don created light, with the looks of miniture PD design. The only looks it has compared to the Arc-AAA is that it's an ~3" cylinder shaped light, sharing the same circuit. I see that you didn't commit for an Arc-AAA Ti as describe in my example. It's amazing that several hours have passed and everyone who has a hard-on for a Ti Arc is not willing to commit to my phantom example. So, where's the big line for an Arc-Ti now?


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## FRANKVZ (Jan 1, 2008)

I would happily buy one Ti-Arc for $100, but not at $175. That said I don't pretend to have a clue how much Peter would have to sell them for to make a profit, but I think others may feel the same and at $100 you'd have a lot of takers. IMHO


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## :)> (Jan 1, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> The AAA Ti light that Don has shown is not an Arc-AAA with a Ti casing. Yes, it shares the same circuit (not sure about the LED), but it's not an Arc-AAA in Ti. It's a Don created light, with the looks of miniture PD design. The only looks it has compared to the Arc-AAA is that it's an ~3" cylinder shaped light, sharing the same circuit. I see that you didn't commit for an Arc-AAA Ti as describe in my example. It's amazing that several hours have passed and everyone who has a hard-on for a Ti Arc is not willing to commit to my phantom example. So, where's the big line for an Arc-Ti now?


 
TIN,

You have been pretty adamant about not having a AAA light to the point that it is getting irritating; I like the idea of an Arc AAA-P in titanium as a vanity piece and you don't... so be it:green:. You pulled a number out of your @$$ and then challenged everyone to commit to it; when nobody took you up on your fantasy offer, you feel you have proved a point... to each his own, I won't dignify the challenge with a response.

Peter produces fantastic lights that are well thought out and he clearly has a very well defined design concept. I do not fault him for that; in fact, I applaud him.

I have sent you a PM; I don't want to continue to air our differences in Peter's forum.


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## :)> (Jan 1, 2008)

Peter,

I truly appreciate your willingness to engage in these discussions! I like to read about the design decisions that you have made in putting your lights together... that increases my joy of ownership even more than having the lights made of titanium:thumbsup:

I think that you are right that overseas manufacturing is going to put a squeeze on smaller shops like yours but that is only because they do have cheaper labor and they aren't innovating... they tend to copy. You have had success in this business and I believe that you will continue to do so; I encourage you to stick to your guns and work your plan. 

I don't have ANY light that is not American made that I value in the ways that I do my Surefire's, Arc's, McGizmo's, Endeavor's, Elektrolumens and Novatacs. 

You aren't out of touch at all! We just happen to be a bunch of flashlight obsessed freaks:welcome: and every one of us has an opinion about things but not many of us agree on everything; so there will always be a difference of opinions. 

Take care and have a happy and prosperous new year.


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## paulr (Jan 3, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> Let's try this for sh*ts and giggles. Let's say Arc released an exact clone of the existing Arc AAA DS light, with the only change being the bezel and tube were in Ti as opposed to aluminum and the cost was $175 each.
> ...
> OK, so let's go. How many want one now?



This is silly, you can order a 1aaa titanium light from brand P marked $149 on the product page, but it's $120 when you actually put it in the shopping cart, and the 20% off holiday coupon is still on the front page so it comes out a tad under $100, and that's for a powerful Seoul-based light with a reflector, not an AAA clone. I actually ordered one a couple days ago (don't have it yet). I'm sure Peter could make something similar and priced competitively if he chose, but he's understandably trying to keep his focus on existing AAA products and the new LS/PD. I leave it to the machining experts whether it's really that much more expensive to turn ti than aluminum or stainless steel. I suspect there's a lot of bling factor and laughing all the way to the bank going on, but what can I say, I have a couple ti lights already and find that I enjoy carrying them and using them just for the sake of the flashaholic statement that the ti makes. And 1aaa (running nimh) is my favorite edc form factor, so when I had a chance to get a computer-less 1aaa ti light somewhat affordably, I went for it. (I did pass up brand F computerized ti lights a few times).


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## mcmc (Jan 5, 2009)

Peter, now that we are here at a year later with the Arc LS doing well =) Any chances of a reconsider on this Arc AAA Ti?


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## cy (Jan 6, 2009)

here's a picture of my Li14430/CR2 with a case turn down by Larry from a Arc AA. 

this was EDC, neck lanyard pretty much 7x24 for two+ years. the ARC AA case ended up with bad corrosion. it was finally retired with a Titan. definitely going backwards. 

So I'm going to solidly disagree an ARC AAA made out of ti is not more than cosmetic. 

anyone that plans on carrying a light on a lanyard 7x24 WILL run into corrosion issues. unless of course light is made out of ti. 

the ARC AAA was the original neck lanyard light and is the perfect candidate for ti. 




Gransee said:


> Did the aluminum corrode? Now I have seen the split ring corrode in extreme cases.
> 
> peter


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## DeanJ (Jan 7, 2009)

*Ti Arc AAA*

+1 Ti Arc AAA

I would jump at the chance to get a Ti Arc AAA (if it was less than $200).


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## paulr (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Ti Arc AAA*

There are now a couple of titanium 1aaa lights in the $100 range (LPK and Mako), though they are a little bit larger than an Arc AAA. I don't think I'd buy a Ti Arc AAA for $200 but I might very well be interested at $100. Brand F used to make one too (not anymore) but I passed it up because it had a digital controller that I didn't like, otherwise I would have bought it.

For what it's worth, I have already bought one ti 1aaa light (brand P "Baltic") and almost bought another (LPK 1aaa) but held off because of the LPK's larger diameter to accomodate the SR44 tube makes it thicker than an Arc AAA. I do have the SR44 version of the LPK and I love it.


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## kaichu dento (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Ti Arc AAA*

I'd take one and if they had a couple levels I'd probably start buying them for gifts.


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## paulr (Feb 1, 2009)

cy said:


> here's a picture of my Li14430/CR2 with a case turn down by Larry from a Arc AA.



Cy, I don't see the picture?


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## cy (Feb 1, 2009)




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## bmstrong (Feb 3, 2009)

Still interested!!!


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## Robocop (Feb 11, 2009)

I have 4 of the AAA versions and I enjoy all of them however only one was purchased to use where the others were purchased just so I could feel better about having several of the classic AAA Arcs.

One thing I have found is that as my interest in lights has grown over several years many of my purchases are made just so I can have a certain light in my collection. Sure I may use them all from time to time however in reality no way will I ever begin to need or even really use all of my lights.

Regardless of function be it better or worse in some areas I feel many would indeed purchase a Ti Arc AAA simply because many of us are just as much collectors as we are users. It would really be neat to simply have an Arc AAA in Ti however I do wonder if it would ever really be worth it for the maker.

CPF is a huge group and many of this group do continue to support many of our dealers. While Arc could no doubt sale many of the Ti versions here on CPF I do not feel the rest of the flashlight world would ever pay the higher cost of a single AAA Ti light much less understand the differences between others....so the maker must decide if the sales from CPF alone would justify the effort and cost of production.

This is a crazy idea however maybe some of the more skilled lathe masters we have among us could provide a custom run of AAA size hosts if Arc would provide the circuits and LED pill....It may not be a true Arc however it would have the same Arc performance in a AAA size body and from the level of skill I have seen with our lathe masters here it could be made to look like the original.

This is simply an idea to satisfy the huge CPF demand while allowing Arc to profit from the sale of internals while others can profit from the host and assembly labor. I would expect of course that Arc would not wish their name to be used for a non Arc product however again if it is the Arc performance many at CPF wish to have in a Ti body this may be one way to obtain such. It would not have to be called an Arc and rightfully so however a collaboration between two makers has shown to be successful in the past.

On the other hand surely others will come along eventually with an affordable AAA Ti light made in larger quantities however again I also understand the facination with having one of our favorites in Ti. I have no personal interest in Ti lights and as such do not know of any available at this time. In the AAA size what are the choices available now? Of the ones available now can anyone say if they sold well enough to be considered a success or at least worth the extra effort to produce??


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## deusexaethera (Feb 19, 2009)

Hmm. A Titanium Arc-P with a slightly-overdriven Nichia DS (or a Cree Q5 ) would be awfully nice.

Now, if I wanted something that would never slip out of my hand, ever, I would ask for an aluminum one plated with...dammit, I can't think what it's called, but it's a black element and it forms tiny pyramidal crystals that are grippier than anything else I've ever seen.

EDIT: Iridium! That's what the stuff is. I had a steel bar coated with the stuff once, and I _could not slide it_ across my hand, my pant leg, my chair -- it simply would not budge. I've never seen something with so much friction.


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## olrac (Mar 6, 2009)

Well it is finally coming :thumbsup: a McGizmo/Arc collaborative Ti light!


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## Gransee (Mar 6, 2009)

Yes, and looking through some of these posts it is uncanny how close some of you guys where to predicting how this might go together. 

I will start a sale thread soon. 

peter


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## bmstrong (Mar 6, 2009)

Say What?


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## olrac (Mar 6, 2009)

Will the sales thread be here, on the B/S/T or on the Arc Web site?


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## bmstrong (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm still stunned that this project is a go. After YEARS of denials, I'm typing amazed. I started this thread in 2006!

P: Any chance these have the Arc-AA tails? Will the 6/4 be knurled like the traditional AAA design? Two stages? Pics???


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## Zot (Mar 6, 2009)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2866119


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## DeanJ (Mar 6, 2009)

I don't know whether to yell for joy that this light will be made, or sob uncontrollably at the reality that I will never be in the right place at the right time to get one. 

I have waiting three years for a Lochsa, I guess I will just add this light to my grail list.

Seriously, can someone advise me how this works. Do I just keep hitting refresh somewhere till I get the chance to click order?

:twothumbs/:mecry:


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## olrac (Mar 6, 2009)

DeanJ said:


> I don't know whether to yell for joy that this light will be made, or sob uncontrollably at the reality that I will never be in the right place at the right time to get one.
> 
> I have waiting three years for a Lochsa, I guess I will just add this light to my grail list.
> 
> ...


PM sent


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## DeanJ (Mar 6, 2009)

Thanks olrac!

Sorry to be so weak and weepy. 

It is hard to believe it was that easy.

I can't wait for mine to arrive.


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