# Polarion PH50 vs SUREFIRE BEAST



## IceManArnold (May 25, 2008)

I was wondering if anyone could tell me why on earth I or anyone would want to pay SUREFIRE $4,100 for their BEAST, pushing 2,300 lumens... when you can spend $2,200 on the Polarion PH50 and get ~5,200 lumens, (~6,400 with a high performance reflector) The Polarian PH50 Helios looks awesome, is shorter than the BEAST, more than twice the power, and half the cost. I currently own only SUREFIRE products, but I may deviate when it comes time to purchase my overkill firehose of light. Any suggestions, thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Kiessling (May 25, 2008)

I can answer with some questions:

- Can the PH50 run on either Li-Ion or CR123?
- Does the PH50 come in a special transport case with built-in charger?
- Does the PH50 sport 10x5mm LEDs for near field illumination and UV checking of documents?
- Is the PH50 as indestructable as the Beast?

The Beast II is a very specialized light and it is most likely that your mission as a flashaholic is not the mission that the Beast II was designed for. This means that its features might be of no importance to you, while mere flux is. 
Then, the Beast II is not for you. You are better served with the PH50. As will be 99.9% of all CPF members.
However, there are some people out there who need the features of the Beast II, for those guys, it is worth every penny.

bernie


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## adamlau (May 25, 2008)

The Beast II actually has more useful short range flood illumination.
The Beast II has a LOTC to prevent accidental activation of the light.
The Beast II can take primary cells when used in conjuction with the appropriate handle.
The LED array of The Beast II can be used for extended periods of low level light.

BTW, there are no reflector options for the PH50, only the one. And it is 5200 lumens w/ the one reflector.


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## IceManArnold (May 25, 2008)

Good points, very good points indeed. I just can't see spending twice as much, and then having to (if you wanted or needed too) put a whopping 20 CR123's in the BEAST. Even at SUREFIRE's really good prices on batteries, that's $1.75 x 20 is $35.00 bones just to power the light that is 1/2 as bright, and costs twice as much. Can you tell me if the beam quality is as good or better than SF? I know you said the Beast has a better flood, but in terms of hot spots, rings, etc, is it as good??


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## IceManArnold (May 25, 2008)

I think it must be a typo or something, click on this link and at the bottom of the first or second paragraph it says ~6,400 Lumens. Thanks for the correction, but still, 5,200 is INSANE!!

https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=87&products_id=411


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## Patriot (May 25, 2008)

IceManArnold said:


> I think it must be a typo or something, click on this link and at the bottom of the first or second paragraph it says ~6,400 Lumens. Thanks for the correction, but still, 5,200 is INSANE!!
> 
> https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=87&products_id=411


 


At one time that was the planned output but Polarion made adjustments to keep the runtime at an hour or more. The Fenix Store hasn't corrected the specs yet.


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## E__WOK (May 27, 2008)

IceManArnold said:


> Good points, very good points indeed. I just can't see spending twice as much, and then having to (if you wanted or needed too) put a whopping 20 CR123's in the BEAST. Even at SUREFIRE's really good prices on batteries, that's $1.75 x 20 is $35.00 bones just to power the light that is 1/2 as bright, and costs twice as much. Can you tell me if the beam quality is as good or better than SF? I know you said the Beast has a better flood, but in terms of hot spots, rings, etc, is it as good??



$35 is chump change to a person who paid $4100 for a light.


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## RadarGreg (May 27, 2008)

If lighting up things in the night to impress your friends or coworkers is important, then get the Polarion. If lighting up things in the night to keep you and your friends alive and not blown up by roadside bombs, then get the Surefire. Price can ALWAYS be justified when the cost is in blood or human life.


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## The Voice of Reason (May 27, 2008)

It would be a real hoot to see comparison beamshots of these two beauties...:devil:


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## BVH (May 27, 2008)

RadarGreg said:


> If lighting up things in the night to impress your friends or coworkers is important, then get the Polarion. If lighting up things in the night to keep you and your friends alive and not blown up by roadside bombs, then get the Surefire. Price can ALWAYS be justified when the cost is in blood or human life.



While the Beast is surely an excellent and tough light, so too, is the Polarion Helios. I don't believe the statement above is an accurate depiction of the Helios. I believe both lights are an excellent choice for military use.

VoiceOfReason, look at the Shootout 4 thread for the comparison shots.


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## adamlau (May 27, 2008)

RadarGreg said:


> If lighting up things...to impress your friends or coworkers is important...get the Polarion. If lighting up things...to keep you and your friends alive and not blown up by roadside bombs...get the Surefire.


I am not so sure about that one  .


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## RadarGreg (May 27, 2008)

I'm sure the Polarion is a fine light with good product support, quality manufacturing process and excellent customer service. When I'm deployed, I work at a facility that supports a variety of commercial and military products. Part of the support facility ships back products to the manufacturer for repairs or replacement. I've seen several HID lights from various manufacturers go through there on their way back to the States for repair. I've never seen a Surefire Beast or Hellfighter pass through there. I'm not saying Surefire products don't get destroyed or damaged, but I do know combat deployments can take their toll on equipment and some products are built to withstand the abuse better. I believe Surefire lights are engineered to withstand as much damage as possible and still function.


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## BVH (May 27, 2008)

Radar, You specifically don't mention having seen any Polarion products come through. Have you seen any Helios's come through for return?


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## IceManArnold (May 27, 2008)

I like to stay with one manufacturer of lights I have experience with, enjoy using, and trust. I have (to date) purchased from SUREFIRE the following lights: 6P, 6P Defender, 3- 9P's, L4, L5, E2DL Defender, and soon an Invictus when released for public purchase. With the exception of the 9P's oblong shaped beam, which I really can't stand, all of the rest I own are in my opionion second to none. It's like my car, I love driving my heavlily modified Mustang GT, and to change over to a different kind of car would be very hard. So, even thinking about getting a Helios instead of a BEAST is a big thing for me, but it's getting much much easier the more videos and such I watch on the PH50. That is one bad *** flame thrower of a light. Besides, I can't understand how the BEAST could find something on the road to save lives that the Helios would miss. If anything, I would think you could find more stuff at farther distances with more light, and binoculars, or some type of magnification device.


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## DM51 (May 27, 2008)

The Polarion Helios is a tough item. They've been vehicle-mounted, weapon-mounted and generally knocked around. 

I have dived with mine (I forget the depth, but it was >30m/100ft) and it was banging around in the dive boat before and after that. It still works 100%.

For the rare few who need something super-explosion-proof, the Beast II is going to be the answer, but for the rest of us, the PH40/50 is plenty tough IMO.


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## RadarGreg (May 27, 2008)

I have not specifically seen the Polarion or Helios. I have seen a bunch of giant Maglite looking lights that name escapes me at the moment. There appeared to be little physical damage to the exterior, so I concluded it was a problem with the internals. I think last time I was deployed, there were about a half dozen in the shop for repair or shipment back to the manufacturer. I will check in a few weeks when I'm back in Iraq and see what is on the shelves there.

Don't get me wrong; I have nothing against the Helios and have played around with one here in Germany that one of the German CPF members bought. It threw a great beam across the Rhein River, but within a short period of time, it developed a bad bulb and had to have a new one shipped over.

If I had a need for a HID light, I'd probably buy something cheaper than the Beast also. I couldn't justify to myself to pay that much for something that I wouldn't put to severe punishment. But if I did need a tool that could withstand the punishing environment that combat can be, it would be the Beast. With Surefire's near unconditional warranty, if it did fail, I know I could return it and get back one that would be new or near new.

IceManArnold, I think a HID beam is a HID beam; the Beast would perform about the same as the Helios when comparing distance, color and object identification. But I think the Beast would hold up better to getting dropped in the floor of a Humvee from the gunner's turret than the Helios. Maybe when I hit the lotto I'll buy a Beast and a Helios and give them both a drop test.


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## LukeA (May 27, 2008)

RadarGreg said:


> But I think the Beast would hold up better to getting dropped in the floor of a Humvee from the gunner's turret than the Helios. Maybe when I hit the lotto I'll buy a Beast and a Helios and give them both a drop test.



What about the Polarion CSWL? 

link


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## Patriot (May 27, 2008)

RadarGreg said:


> If lighting up things in the night to impress your friends or coworkers is important, then get the Polarion. If lighting up things in the night to keep you and your friends alive and not blown up by roadside bombs, then get the Surefire. Price can ALWAYS be justified when the cost is in blood or human life.





Not to wear out the issue because I know others have already commented about this, but the Polarion is built quite well. The electronics in these top end HID's are similar in that they all use very high quality components. This means that ballasts, igniters, bulbs, and batteries will provide similar durability when housed in rugged, water proof, shock resistant housings. In some categories such as depth rating, I believe the PH series is capable of much greater depths when the machined tailcap is installed.

Polarion is serious about the military market and it shows in the products that they've been developing. Ken from Polarion has given many examples of the ruggedness of Polarion lights and guys like DM51 are out there beating these lights up in heavy use without failure. It's already a given that SF produces some of the finest and most durable lights on the market, but I don't think it's accurate to suggest that another high quality product can't be capable of similar are equal durability.

In the end, without rigorous scientific testing data, durability is basically a perception. Once several samples of the same light are tested side by side with regards to shock resistance, thermal extremes, water resistance, light output, ergonomics in field, etc, then top categories can be given to each light. Until then we have to rely in individual testimony and there have been good stories attached to each of these lights.


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## BVH (May 27, 2008)

RadarGreg said:


> IceManArnold, I think a HID beam is a HID beam; the Beast would perform about the same as the Helios when comparing distance, color and object identification. But I think the Beast would hold up better to getting dropped in the floor of a Humvee from the gunner's turret than the Helios. Maybe when I hit the lotto I'll buy a Beast and a Helios and give them both a drop test.



Actually, if you'll look at the shootout IV thread, you'll see the Beast does not produce nor output the level of light that the PH40 or PH50 Helios do. Look at both the tower and the foreground and you'll see that an HID beam is not an HID beam in this case. In this shootout, both the PH40 and 50 provide significantly more light in the foreground and on the tower. Keep in mind that the tower was only 260 Yards in distance. I would think in military use, the ability to throw for long distances in addition to flooding the near-field would be important.

I don't think it is accurate to imply that the Helios is not up to the ruggedness of the Beast when there is no experience to back it up.


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## RadarGreg (May 27, 2008)

Ok, this is going to quickly turn to a thread of favorites, so I'll just leave it at both lights are well built and perform well. Like a Ferrari or Lamborghini, both are high end lights and out of the price range of most of us.


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## Ken J. Good (May 27, 2008)

The only component does not produce for Polarion-USA distributed HID lights in-house is the Lamp Assembly.

The lamp assembly we do use is a known high-quality unit, German made.

I have replaced 2 for customers in the last 2 years. One of which I believe you are referring to and the other after a user opened the front end and shattered his lamp assembly through sloppy handling. I believe the first one was not a failure but a lack of understanding of what the lamp does when it is energized. The output actually changes shape as the gas moves and is super-heated. I might be a separate incident, but I am speculating.

I have had Special forces guys freeze, heat, drop from helicopter and otherwise abuse our lights. Returned battered and beaten but still functioning.

I have dropped our lights on solid concrete from heights of 6' +numerous times by accident. Still fine.

I just got a light back from a federal law enforcement unit that was dropped at height well above that. The bezel was deformed to the point that the filters would no longer fit on. It had to have been from 10-20'. Light still works...Not pretty, but works fine.

As far as durability in hostile environments, I have sent numerous PF series lights for use on machine guns to a variety of combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan; to date, not one failure/return reported.

As far as the infamous drop testing/parking lot throw of a SF Beast, do it without rubber bumpers and I will be glad to go toe-to-toe with a Beast on durability. 

I may just get another Beast to bust (no-pun intended) this myth of non-destructiveness.

I just had a European fire department subject the light to some exceptionally high-heat conditions...To the point I thought for sure the batteries would explode. The Polarion moved right through it and they are now customers.

I am well aware of Surefire's manufacturing and quality control practices as I worked for them for a number of years. It's excellent and proven over time.

That being said, I am also aware of the shortcomings on particular models and runs as well.

EVERY manufacturer faces quality control issues.

In my mind what is also important is what you as a representative of a product line are going to do for the customer when the product does not meet expectations or specifications.

Surefire does a great job on this front as well generally speaking. 

I believe Polarion-USA can make the same claim.

In terms of light output, the statement than an HID is an HID is not a correct statement. The defining/critical components is the reflector coupled properly coupled with the source and energy to that source. PH50 vs Beast...No contest in terms of output.

The Beast is 2,000 lumen light that runs for 2 hrs on it's rechargeable source.
The Polarion PH50 is 5,200 lumen light that runs for 1 hour on it's rechargeable source.

You can talk about beam shape all day long. The bottom if you need to find somebody in a hostile environment quickly I would grab an PH50 any day in almost any situation. Not because I sell them, but because I believe in them as the tool of choice.

I am not interested in selling just any commodity, I could be working for several entities at this point in my life. I am interested in providing the best tool for those that go in harms way on our behalf.


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## Ken J. Good (May 27, 2008)

On anther note: Does the Beast II have a waterproof rating? If so to what depth?

Thanx Beast II owners.


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## karlthev (May 27, 2008)

Great thread, great discussions--may we always have the time and interest to discuss. I recently bought a PH50 and am more than pleased with the light but sorry to say I will never, ever test it's ruggedness for it is a light and not a tool for distruction. That said, I have every confidence in Ken and his claims about the durability of this fine light. I am sure as well that the 
SF Beast, with which I have no knowledge, has durability evidence in the highest standards as well. Different strokes folks.....


Karl


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## Patriot (May 27, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Polarion is serious about the military market and it shows in the products that they've been developing. Ken from Polarion has given many examples of the ruggedness of Polarion lights and guys like DM51 are out there beating these lights up in heavy use without failure.





And above are some further awesome examples and testimonies by Ken. After those examples I'm going to guess the Polarion would handle being dropped on the floor of the Humvee just fine. 

I'd love to see an old picture of the military test units that you got back Ken. I think you posted them once a long time ago.


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## IceManArnold (May 27, 2008)

*Ken J. Good*: thanks for the awesome reply. When I save up the necessary funds to purchase one of your Helios lights, I will be calling. If you ever have a sale, please let me know!!


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## KeyGrip (May 31, 2008)

IceMan: A quick word of advice, and I hope I don't come off as judgemental, but it doesn't serve anyone to be 100% brand loyal, and this is an excellent example. It seems you're going with the Polarion, which I think is a good idea because it's better suited to your use. Like the K2 and the M1, the Beast is one of SureFire's very specialized lights, and buying it just for the sake of brand continuity is, in my opinion, a mistake.


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## FredM (Jun 1, 2008)

E__WOK said:


> $35 is chump change to a person who paid $4100 for a light.



No joke thats like buying a Maglite and then complaing that the batteries cost 17 cents.


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## HIDSGT (Jun 8, 2008)

IceManArnold said:


> I was wondering if anyone could tell me why on earth I or anyone would want to pay SUREFIRE $4,100 for their BEAST, pushing 2,300 lumens... when you can spend $2,200 on the Polarion PH50 and get ~5,200 lumens, (~6,400 with a high performance reflector) The Polarian PH50 Helios looks awesome, is shorter than the BEAST, more than twice the power, and half the cost. I currently own only SUREFIRE products, but I may deviate when it comes time to purchase my overkill firehose of light. Any suggestions, thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.


 
There simply is no good reason to choose the Beast over the Polarian. I've seen both up close and there is absolutely no comparing the two. The Polarian is way brighter and simply better. The Beast is a waste of money IMO.


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## Flashanator (Jun 9, 2008)

ROFL!!  waste of money is an understatement for the Beast II.

so much money! so little lumens! :shakehead


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## Patriot (Jun 9, 2008)

Guys, aren't we past basing the value of a light on output alone?? If that was a sensible measurement none of us would ever need to own anything more than a POB. Many CPFers own the Beast and they're hardly fools. We've been down this road before. Can we skip it this time?


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## That_Guy (Jun 9, 2008)

One thing that many people fail to realize when comparing the lumen rating of the Beast to other lights is that the Beast lumen rating is out the front, while all the others are bulb lumens. The Beast produces 3200 +/-200 bulb lumens, exactly the same as all the other quality 35W HID lights out there (4300k Philips, Osram or GE bulb).


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## BVH (Jun 9, 2008)

As HID guys and gals, we should be excited about all of the heavy iron players! We're on the same team here. More lights, more competition, lower prices! And it drives the technology further.


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## jrv (Jun 9, 2008)

BVH said:


> While the Beast is surely an excellent and tough light, so too, is the Polarion Helios. I don't believe the statement above is an accurate depiction of the Helios. I believe both lights are an excellent choice for military use.


In this rarefied company it may make sense to differentiate based on hard-user scenarios where the light is a necessary component of a successful mission but it well down the list of priorities of the gear that is carried.

The usual example I give is a search & rescue deployment where the medical pack, radio, etc, are all going to warrant protection in streams or against rocks, but the light has to take care of itself. In other words, a scenario where a $4k flashlight might not make the top-5 list of most valuable things in your pack...

It's too bad PK's Beast Toss wasn't captured on video. That would make clearer just what the extreme-use lights are about.


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## BVH (Jun 9, 2008)

To answer this once and for all, were there rubber bumpers on the Beast during the toss?


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## HIDSGT (Jun 9, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Guys, aren't we past basing the value of a light on output alone?? If that was a sensible measurement none of us would ever need to own anything more than a POB. Many CPFers own the Beast and they're hardly fools. We've been down this road before. Can we skip it this time?


 
Well output is the primary function of a any light isn't it? It's kind of a critical element of a flashlight considering one buys it to illuminate things. And it's not just output alone that makes the Beast overpriced. Is it a little more rugged then some of the other HID lights out there? Well I hope it does something for that price considering it's illuminating is a joke compared to the Polarian. 

The question was comparing the two lights. When they are compared there is no comparison. They are both too big to carry in ones pocket and unless one plans to repeatedly drop their light on the road or trail I would say that the value of any light is primarily based on output, run time and the ability to recharge it when comparing it to another light of similar size. 

I have owned my latest HID for about 6 months now and have never dropped it once and I use it every day at work 5-6 days a week. Output is and always will be the deciding factor for 90% of the people buying a hand held HID these days.

If the price was somewhat reasonable I could see some attraction, not much but some. It's over priced and underpowered so what exactly is there to skip when one asks for a comparison of the two lights. Just because some sensible people have bought this light does not make it a sensible decision. 

The Beast is the size of my first HID that I bought 5 years ago:thumbsdow. One would think that Surefire could come up with a better and brighter design for a handheld HID considering they make great small LED and halogens. If anyone has the funds for R&D it would be Surefire.


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## adamlau (Jun 9, 2008)

HIDSGT said:


> If anyone has the funds for R&D it would be SureFire.


The Beast is certainly the beneficiary of such R&D. For me it is the beam, gives a wide, expansive view.


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## seery (Jun 9, 2008)

BVH said:


> We're on the same team here.


+1

There are many reasons why folks feel the need to bash, most of which is related to jealousy,
insecurity, or unhappiness. It is what it is.

The Polarion is an absolute amazing light and has much to offer. When the need came about
for a light of this type, I researched and fielded my options. The Polarion offered much the
Beast II didn't, as was the case the Beast II offered much the Polarion didn't.

My personal decision was not based on emotions, but the reality of what each light has to offer.

There's no doubt the Polarion throws some serious light. There's no doubt the Polarion is built
tough. There's no doubt the Polarion is backed by a great team. These were never issues, for
me it came down these few simple factors, that for us were important.

The Beast II

- Includes (2) handles and can be run on both Li-Ion and primaries.
- The 12 LEDS greatly increases the number of roles in can handle.
- Amazing charging options, supply it power of almost any type, and it can be charged.
- Has twice the runtime.
- Needs half the charge time.
- Offers a lifetime warranty.

The Polarion is great. The Beast is great.

But most importantly....

Life is great. :twothumbs


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## Patriot (Jun 9, 2008)

> *HIDSGT*
> Well output is the primary function of a any light isn't it? It's kind of a critical element of a flashlight considering one buys it to illuminate things. And it's not just output alone that makes the Beast overpriced. Is it a little more rugged then some of the other HID lights out there? Well I hope it does something for that price considering it's illuminating is a joke compared to the Polarian.


Maybe for you output is the most important feature. For someone in a combat zone or a hunter in the field it might be the ability to run on primaries or be able to run for over 120 minutes. Look at how popular long run LED lights are. The only light with similar features to the Beast is the Group 5 Engineering HB series and they don't have a rechargeable option. 




> *HIDSGT*
> One would think that Surefire could come up with a better and brighter design for a handheld HID considering they make great small LED and halogens. If anyone has the funds for R&D it would be Surefire.


Here you're actually giving credit to Surefire for making great small LED and halogens but your HID arguement is exactly the same as the crowds who declare there is no reason to buy a Surefire LED light when a Fenix P3D Q5 will beat it in practically every measurable category. 

I believe that your reasoning isn't consistent. You approve of Surefire LED's at twice the price of many competitors LED lights while calling the Beast overpriced and underpowered. The Surefire E2DL is $136 and only 120 lumens, while a P3D Q5 is $70 dollars and 205 lumens. What makes you recognize a certain value with the Surefire in this case while you can't see it when applied to a Surefire HID?


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## jrv (Jun 10, 2008)

BVH said:


> To answer this once and for all, were there rubber bumpers on the Beast during the toss?


All Beasts have the bumpers as far as I know. It's a built-in part of the light.


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## Patriot (Jun 10, 2008)

jrv said:


> All Beasts have the bumpers as far as I know. It's a built-in part of the light.




I think that BVH is making the point that the rubber bumpers go a long way to protecting the light under such abuse. 

If it didn't have the bumpers on it though, that's mighty impressive. Likewise are the PH40s that survived drops onto concrete, as well as the one that dropped from 10-20' and survived.


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## jrv (Jun 10, 2008)

HIDSGT said:


> Well output is the primary function of a any light isn't it?


No, that's not true outside of the consumer market. Generally there is a minimum brightness requirement, followed by pages of other requirements. High Output is easy (up to a point) whereas it's the other requirements that are hard. The more expensive each deployment that uses a light becomes, the less concerned with output level there is as long as the minimum requirement is met.

The Beast has drawbacks. The carrying case is larger than the suitcase I used for a 2-month trip touring Europe and *far* heavier, yet there is no other way to recharge the battery. I find the LED output unsatisfactory. I'm probably the only person to have ever touched a Beast who didn't like the on/off ring.


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## seery (Jun 10, 2008)

jrv said:


> I find the LED output unsatisfactory.


If it's not a problem, would you mind expanding on this a bit.

I'm a bit curious since the beam quality of the LED's is IMO so amazing. Even useful illumination
out to 150-200 feet with virtually zero hotspot which means the Beast II can also be used for map 
reading, general navigation, CAI (confined area illumination), document checks, etc. 

In addition, the (6) UV LED's are equally as useful to their intended market.

Thanks.


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## HIDSGT (Jun 28, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> I can answer with some questions:
> 
> - Can the PH50 run on either Li-Ion or CR123?


 
Who cares? Why would anyone want to spent $40.00 in batteries when they can just recharge it. That point makes no sense.


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## Lightraven (Jun 28, 2008)

Those in the field can carry batteries--but not a generator. Our SWAT unit has a Beast. If the batteries die while they are on an operation, they just put in fresh ones. If a rechargeable dies, the light is dead weight until it gets charged.

Different setups for different needs.


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## karlthev (Jun 28, 2008)

I guess rechargeable spares can't be carried with you....


Karl


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## Lightraven (Jun 28, 2008)

From what I understand of the specs, the Polarion's batteries are easily replaceable. Therefore, it would work fine.

Many spotlights have an internal battery that cannot be changed out. Some, like the Maxabeam have a pretty big and heavy battery that you wouldn't necessarily want to carry more than one.

What I meant is that recharging the light+battery is not always an option for some users who are in the middle of something.


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## Daniel_sk (Jun 28, 2008)

I'd say it's easier to take a small rechargeable pack than 40 primary batteries.


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## seery (Jun 28, 2008)

Stepping outside of the Beast II vs. P-50 discussion or the pro-this or pro-that way of thinking...

If given the choice.

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Light A - Runs on both primary cells and rechargeable handle.

or

Light B - Runs on only one power source.
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Basic logic would seem to conclude that "Light A" would better suite most needs.
Some mission requirements demand a light source to have available the option of
both types of power.

*"Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."
*
Given Surefire's market, it's most certain they took into consideration all the options
when they designed the Beast II for use with both the included primary handle and
re-chargeable LiIon handle.

Years of R&D went into the Beast II. According to a military SF rep, the new Beast II
is only the second Beast to make "made to order" production status, but is actually a
GEN 7 unit. The original Beast did not offer this option. Demand played a major role
in the current offering.

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Here are a few excerpts from a military/defense article I read recently.
_
"...the use of rechargeable batteries in the military is largely reserved for training,
where at the end of the day soldiers can conveniently recharge their batteries overnight."

"For the most part, the batteries used during combat operations are primary (non-rechargeable) batteries.
Although non-rechargeable batteries offer the highest capacity, the problem is that once a battery is used on a
mission, the returning soldier, uncertain of its remaining run time, will replace it with a fresh one rather than take 
a used battery back out in the field, an understandable action considering the risks associated with running out
of battery power." 

"...effort is under way by the Army to find ways to increase the use of rechargeable batteries in combat
situations, where recharging them is problematic."

"What is the Army's idea of the perfect battery? ...it would be safe, long lasting, lightweight, small, low-cost,
available anywhere, and when it's used up, edible.” In practice, at least most of these goals are within reach."

"Long shelf life, typically five years, is especially important, as batteries are stockpiled during peacetime. Similarly,
wide operating and storage temperatures are key to batteries that could wind up being used in extremely hot or
cold climates. Another factor the military needs to consider is a battery's signature; that is, whether it gives off
heat or noise (some batteries have moving parts) that can be detected by the enemy."

"Nevertheless, several studies have shown that with the proper logistical support in the battlefield, rechargeable
batteries can indeed serve in certain tactical situations. What's more, several Army units in southwest Asia have
been trained from the beginning to work with nothing but rechargeables. Said Brundage, “They were provided
with whatever chargers, cables and adapters they needed. They set up standard operating procedures on how
they would cycle the batteries through the unit, getting them to the chargers and back out to the soldiers. They
are totally energy independent.” The overall key to this success was that the units had all the required procedures
and equipment in place and operational prior to deploying."

“No soldier on the battlefield is going to trust a battery the second time he takes it out,” said Michael T. Brundage,
Power Applications branch chief at the U.S. Army's Power Division (Fort Monmouth, NJ). “Today,” he explained, “a
used battery doesn't give the soldier the warm fuzzy feeling that it will have enough energy to last,” and indeed
chucking it for a fresh unit makes sense when faced with a life-and-death combat situation._


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## scaredofthedark (Jun 29, 2008)

i wish i have a few thousand to spend on ONE light!!!


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## climberkid (Jun 29, 2008)

scaredofthedark said:


> i wish i have a few thousand to spend on ONE light!!!


no kidding. i will before long!


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## adamlau (Jun 29, 2008)

climberkid said:


> i will before long!


Now that is the spirit  . I said the same thing to myself a few months back. All it took was cutting back on a few performance car parts. I gave up a set of Crower cams for a PH50. Well worth it.


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## Kiessling (Jun 29, 2008)

karlthev said:


> I guess rechargeable spares can't be carried with you....
> 
> 
> Karl




I appreciate it when all my equipment uses the same power source, this makes the "spare" problem much easier to tame and adds versatility to boot. 

I need only CR123 cells ... vs different rechargeables, chargers, wall outlets etc.

And ... rechargeable spare parts need to be charged and maintained, too. Even more work.

Primary is KISS. And frankly ... if I could afford the Beast II ... the price of the batteries would not matter to me.

bernie


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## Lightraven (Jun 29, 2008)

The battery situation is more difficult in a unit environment as opposed to an individual. When gear is issued to a person on a long term basis, he is expected to keep it operational or suffer the consequences.

Where gear is checked in and out to different people daily, it is often the case that nobody has a responsibility to maintain it. It gets progressively more and more dysfunctional. Batteries that need charging, don't get it. I've seen this in my agency spotlights--the old 2million CP style and the newer Maxabeams. There was no point checking them out, because they were never charged.

As opposed to the Surefire weaponlights on our unit issue shotguns and rifles. When the batteries die, you just ask for more. Carry a couple spares for the field. There are probably boxes of CR123 batteries in the supply room. The admins just order them and they sit on a shelf. No maintenance.

For an individual issue spotlight, the Polarion looks to be very good. But as a unit issue item, it might be difficult to keep it charged.


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## Patriot (Jun 30, 2008)

> *HIDSGT*
> Who cares? Why would anyone want to spent $40.00 in batteries when they can just recharge it. That point makes no sense.



I'm surprised that there is any argument against a light that provides the *option* of using primaries. What would be the loss if the Beast II happened to run on four different battery chemistries? Despite your objections with the light, hopefully you'd be able to recognize that it suits some users perfectly well, even though batteries are "expensive" to a few of us "joe blows."


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## SilentK (Jun 30, 2008)

The way i look at it is that if you dont have a use for it, then you dont have a use for it and you get another product. it is as simple as that. There ARE in fact people who would need a beast over a polarion. like the military. and the user does not pay for it, they use their army credit card to buy the batterys or their squad or unit orders in bulk and the united states government goes another $100 dollars into their 10 trillion dollar debt. {yes it is 10 trillion} For hardcore campers or climbers they would get a beast over a polarion anyday, due to the fact that you can "carry more runtime." However i do belive surefire could do better, with something like a 50 watt. Ahh an idea. why not buy a xeray 50w on a group buy for $1100 {i think} over a $2200 polarion? Huh? i know if it was me i would wait a while in order to save over a grand on a light with trhe same output. No it is because more people know of polarion than xeray, and polarion has more features including being more reliable. why spend over $150 on a cell phone with a contract when you can go to walmart and get a phone with the same service provider for $40? it is because you like the look of that phone, or it has a camera that you will never use, or it is a flip phone. The same goes for the beast as far a flashlights go. just because you think it is stupid does not mean everyone thinks it is stupid or useless. It is just not the light for you. okay big deal, you should not rant about a product just because it does not fit your needs or wants. do everyone a favor. Just buy something else and go on with your life. My rude self. :whoopin:


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