# What is a Mag85?



## Allnew2me

I've read several references to a Mag85 here on this board and wonder what it is. I did a search and found a few things but nothing that really defines it. Is it a modification to a standard Maglight? It sounds expensive so what is the deal with it is it a very bright light or does it have some other application. Thanks.


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## adirondackdestroyer

Allnew2me said:


> I've read several references to a Mag85 here on this board and wonder what it is. I did a search and found a few things but nothing that really defines it. Is it a modification to a standard Maglight? It sounds expensive so what is the deal with it is it a very bright light or does it have some other application. Thanks.


 
The "Mag85" is a modification to a 3D maglite (I think). It uses a high power bulb and a battery adapter using AA rechargable cells. It is VERY VERY bright, and makes a standard maglite look like nothing. They are kinda tricky to build, but very rewarding I would imagine. 
I built a Roar of the Pelican, which is another maglite modification. It is much easier to build and also had amazing output! You might want to look into that.


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## powernoodle

Mag85 recipe:

Take one 3D Mag light. Remove the stock plastic reflector and replace with a metal reflector from from www.light-edge.com or elsewhere. I prefer a "LOP"(low orange peel), but they come in other flavors like SMO (smooth). Orange peel describes the bumpiness of the reflective coating. The higher you go on orange peel, the smoother the beam is but it slightly diminishes throw. Also note that some of these metal reflectors are "cammed" and some are not. I prefer cammed, which is like the stock reflector and allows you to turn the head of the light to focus the light. All of light-edge's reflectors are cammed, I think. CPF members who make and sell them will sell both flavors, so make sure you get a cammed reflector if ordering from one of them. You replace the stock reflector because it will melt if you dont.

Next replace the stock bulb with a Welch-Allyn WA1185 bulb from www.light-edge.com, CPF member Litho123 or elsewhere ; a "potted" bulb means that it fits the existing socket just like the stock bulb does. The other flavor that some use is "bi-pin" bulb, which doesnt if the stock Mag socket. In order to use the bi-pin bulb you have to replace the stock switch with one from a Magcharger light. Order a spare bulb or two and store them in the tail of the light.

Next replace the plastic stock lens with a 52.1mm borofloat glass lens from www.flashlightlens.com . This size fits the 2D, 3D, 4D, etc mag lights. The stock lens will melt if you dont replace it.

Almost done. Buy from CPF member Fivemega a "9AA to 3D" adapter, which is also written 9aa>3D. If he is not currently selling them, look for one on b/s/t or wait for him to sell some more. He offers them regularly. This adapter fits in the battery compartment and lets you use 9 rechargeable AA batteries in place of the 3 D-sized batteries you use in a regular Mag 3D light. These adapters are well made. There are cheaper plastic adapters, each of which are the size of a 3D battery and each which hold 3 AA batteries (so you have to use 3 of them), but dont use these unless you have to (IMO).

Lastly, get 9 rechargeable NiMH AA batteries and a charger. I use Titanium brand batteries from www.amondotech.com, but any brand will do. You can use the 2100mAh or 2500mAh flavor or whatever floats your boat. Charge them, place them in Fivemega's adapter, and dont stick them in the light for 12-24 hours. You have to wait in order for the voltage to drop. If you dont wait and use freshly charged batteries, you can fry the bulb. Dont over discharge these as its bad for them. Pop them in the charger as soon as the light starts to dim. 

One last thing. These things can make smoke at first, which can cloud the lens. So with a brand new potted bulb and/or new light, take the head off of it and turn it on for several minutes. This will cook it nicely and you may see a wisp of smoke for several minutes. It will stop smoking eventually, and then you can put the head back on and use the light.

Alternatively, you can buy these pre-made. I like the flavor CPF member Juancho makes. I think he goes the extra mile by coating the contacts with Pro-Gold and stuff like that to give you a nice light. They are costy, but it saves you the hassle of making one without having seen it first in person. Other folks sell them too.

When done, the Mag85 is extremely bright and is a must have for any real flashlight nutbag. And because it looks like a regular Mag 3D, it will scare bystanders when you turn it on.

cheers


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## Allnew2me

Wow, thanks for the detailed description noodleman! So any stock Mag 3D will work with this? I'll look at the sites you so kindly provided and see what the costs are for this power beam. It sounds like it is a fairly easy project to convert, the most difficult part being spending whatever it costs to get the parts. In terms of lumens, what can I expect from this thing, and does it have a nice smooth clean light pattern or dies it look like a stock Mag with the rings and dark spots? I imagine it has one heck of a throw. Once again the vast knowledge is freely shared, I appreciate your taking the time to enlighten me.


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## powernoodle

Allnew: Any stock Mag 3D will do as a starting point. As for lumens, the bulb allegedly makes in the 1200 range and supposedly 900+ makes it out the front end of the light. The smooth reflector will provide the most throw, but it will still be a much smoother beam than the ringy standard reflector provides. The low orange peel reflector barely diminishes the throw (if any) and smooths out the beam just a little. On the other end of the spectrum are stippled reflectors. A heavy stipple is a pure flood with no throw.

cheers


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Once a bulb is making enough light, rings and artifacts are diminished a lot.

I VERY much recommend a LOP when you order a reflector. My M*g85 has a LOP and has a very VERY bright blob with ghostly bi-lobes (figure eight). I sincerly wish I had a few more LOP reflectors, that's how much I think of them!


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## Delvance

Wow, well Powernoodle pretty much covered it all :goodjob: !

Just my 2 cents on this. Powernoodle's recipe/writeup is pretty much spot on. 

As with most things, there are usually several ways to go about it. With the [email protected], you can get a KIU bipin socket kit instead of a bipin holder. KIU sells them over in Groupbuys and Passarounds on CPF. The advantage of the KIU socket is very high heat resistance, much lower resistance than the stock [email protected] switch. This will also allow you to buy bipin wa1185 lamps (which are a little cheaper i think and maybe even easier to obtain). The downside is if you want to use the KIU socket, you'll need to butcher the original [email protected] module a little and solder two wires to it.

You can also use a UCL (www.flashlightlens.com) instead of the borofloat mentioned. A UCL gives 98% or so light transmission, a borofloat gives much lower. Actually...uhm, i think they now offer a new version where it is 99% light transmission...absolutely amazing!

Using a KIU and a bipin lamp (instead of potted lamp), you might be able to use a really small opening (hole) reflector, this means less light loss (more light reflected forwards).

If you do all of these, you will pretty much have a top shelf [email protected] Only thing i can think of that's better would be the same combo but with a regulator.

Oh yeah, batteries wise. Using normal consumer grade rechargeables will give good runtime, or you can use high current capable rechargeables (www.cheapbatterypacks.com look for CBP 1650). Using the CBP1650s gives less runtime but more light due to less voltage sag, meaning more volts gets to the bulb, more lumens. Be careful though...a top shelf [email protected] without a regulator and those CBP1650s...have an instaflash risk (batteries when freshly charged hold a higher volt than when they are rested, instaflash is when you turn the light on and the bulb goes really bright then says byebye )

Hope this helps!


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## Erasmus

Thanks to all who gave the needed explanations. Now I finally know what at Mag85 is


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## Allnew2me

So as far as bang for the buck I see that this light is pretty high up on the scale. A lot of light for not too much, around a hundred bucks depending on the batteries you choose. Sounds like fun. Are there any other issues, like does the switch go out from too much current, or does the light get too hot, things like that? Also what would be the comparable bought light in the same range as this one? I'm guessing you would have to spend several hundred bucks to get this kind of output. I think I have a project:naughty:


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## Faster

Hi,

I have just created a Mag85, from what I gathered on CPF this is the recipe I used:

Mag 3D host 

kiu Bi-pin socket - easy to setup and well worth it, used some cheap CPU thermal gel between socket and maglite just incase! can use bipin bulbs - cheaper and adjustable. 

Sanyo 2500 - Good runtime, not as bright as CBP 1650 but a good comprimise, cheap.

Modamag or Fivemega 9AA-> 3D holder. 

"Universal Pack charger" 7.2-12V Good and cheap charger.

WA 1185 bulbs.

I used a Boroflat lens for thermal reasons (gets quite cold around here in winter!) although UCL may be better if thermal shock is not an issue.

Got a light stippled reflector from Litho123, still some artifacts in the beam but not bad, would recommend you go for medium stippled or above though.

Progold on all connections to reduce interface resistance. 

Just bought another stock 3D mag to compare with my Mag85 and all I can say is that it's well worth the money!!!

So far I've had no problems with the flashlight.

Faster.


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## Delvance

Oh, an important thing i forgot. If you do take the head off to let the newly built monster to smoke a little first. Be VERY careful... these lamps are high pressure halogen etc. And critical failures (instaflash along with the bulb exploding) will cause flying glass shrapnel. So you might want to do it behind a shield etc or just put the plastic [email protected] lense on the head with no reflector and let it "smoke"...so if it does explode, it'll just damage the now useless plastic [email protected] lense.I've had a critical failure before, the power of the flying glass was powerful enough to put little dents in my metal reflector.

Would hate to see anyone get hurt


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## dizzy

Allnew2me said:


> I've read several references to a Mag85 here on this board and wonder what it is. I did a search and found a few things but nothing that really defines it. Is it a modification to a standard Maglight? It sounds expensive so what is the deal with it is it a very bright light or does it have some other application. Thanks.



Thanks for asking the question about the mag85. I was also wondering how these lights came to be and now I know. I may even try too build one someday, unless I see one come up on b/s/t . Great description on how to make one though. Thanks!!


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## Padge

Which brings up another question.

What run times are you seeing with you Mag85's?


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## gnef

and another: bulb life?

the specs say 50 hours. approximately what kind of lifetime are you guys seeing with these bulbs? 

this does seem like a very interesting project for the future. don't quite have the money for it yet...


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## Delvance

I think the re-rated bulb life is 8 hours or so (barring any instaflash) Runtime is around 35 minutes on 2500mAhs i believe. CBP1650s are a little bit shorter.


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## bjn70

The name "mag85" partly comes from the use of the 1185 bulb. Other combinations can be made using the 1274 bulb and a few others, maybe a 1311(?).

Other people have made these and used their own names based on the lumen output that they think they are getting.

You'll also see references to the "roar of the Pelican" using a Pelican bulb.

All of these are pretty darned bright, great for showing off to your friends. You have to do some searching to find all of the parts, and probably buy them from as many as 5 different people as I did.

Once you get the battery adapter, you can play with the light by putting in 7 or 8 Alkaline AA's and a Radio Shack KPR118 bulb. This is pretty bright on its own, and doesn't require a new socket, reflector, or lens.


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## sizzlechest

I too have very much appreciated reading this thread and learned alot! Thanks for helpful questions/answers........

I will probably go the route of b/s/t for one- it seems like a person would be better off making multiple lights rather than gathering all the supplies to make one......


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## Ivanhoe

powernoodle said:


> Mag85 recipe:
> 
> 
> When done, the Mag85 is extremely bright and is a must have for any real flashlight nutbag. And because it looks like a regular Mag 3D, it will scare bystanders when you turn it on.
> 
> cheers


 
:lolsign:


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## LuxLuthor

While powernoodle answered allnew2me's questions, IMHO, he neglected the single best example and resource for a new forum user to get a ready made setup, in addition to the quality package that Juancho offers....namely, FiveMega's mods. 

The main reason to consider a Mag85 (or other bright WA bi-pin bulb) is their 1200-1350 bulb lumen output are way brighter than even SureFire's M6 light which puts out about 650 bulb lumens. SF has durability and craftmanship benefits, but if you want bright lights, the Mag85 or Mag-1331 setups I describe below kick ***.

You will always need a new bi-pin bulb holder, new aluminum reflector, and glass lens because the increased heat from these bulbs will melt/short out those stock parts.

If you watch the group buy section you will see quality offerings from him, most of which are worth buying. I have some personal recommendations/preferences as a relatively new user over what others have mentioned for you to consider.

I STRONGLY prefer FiveMega's WA-1185 ceramic b-pin holder shown here (which he is about to offer again this month) in his stock flashlights, because they are very easy to pop into a stock Maglite, after sticking the bi-pin bulb into its 2 holes. This fits right into the stock base after taking out the Maglite bulb, and you don't need to add a current/voltage regulator to prevent destroying bulbs. 

FM keeps all the other Maglite stock parts in his custom mods (spring, inside contact parts, switch, and bulb socket holder base), which gives just enough resistance to prevent "insta-flashing" (destroying) the 1185 (or other types) bulb which is very common with the KIU and other lower resistance setups that can also hold the bipin bulbs...especially if you turn it on fresh off the charger. They will say they get a little higher light output, but FM claims 1300 Lumens with his 3D setup...as good as I have seen from others -- and without the downside of flashing your bulbs.

I have bought eight of FM's Mag flashlights over the last 6 months, six of which are 2D size using either WA-1185 or WA-1331 bulbs, and *have always turned them on immediately off the charger, and never insta-flashed a bulb*.

Here was his 3D version of his 1300 bulb Lumen output 1185 setup using Li-Ion batteries, which works great, and which he will be offering again.

I now prefer the 1185 setup in a 2D size which uses 9 smaller size, high current output NiMH batteries of the "2/3A" type which I had never heard of. Also, this 2D size using the very bright WA-1331 bulb with 3 Li-Ion batteries seems nearly as bright, even though it is only supposed to be 700 Lumens. 

I would also highly recommend the Smooth "SMO" mirror type reflector if you want a farther throw, but you will see bulb filament coil artifacts...but amazingly, FM just came out with a new product that totally eliminates the bulb coil artifacts in your beam, while dramatically increasing the throw hot spot, and increasing the surrounding spill output...namely his deep reflector SMO shown here....but you better get it now.

Just search for topics that he started and you can go back over the last year to see what I consider the finest quality, ready to go products I have seen offered on this forum. Remember that NiMH batteries can give higher current, and are cheaper...but Lithium Ion batteries have higher voltage output, longer storage of charge, and longer runtimes. 

You have to learn about how different batteries in series and/or parallel setups give different current (mAh) and voltage output needed to drive various WA bulb types. Here is a current offering of various NiMH and Li-Ion battery holders that give different voltage and current (think runtime) setups.


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## Dyna

Can I vote to make this thread a sticky. Ive seen many a thread asking about the [email protected], the hows and whys. This is one of the most informative Ive seen yet.


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## sygyzy

Are there any other one-stop shops besides Light-Edge? Most of their inventory seems to be backordered 2-3 weeks.


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## graphicator

The supermag configuration from Light-edge is pretty tempting to me too.
I'm a total newbie, no electrician and for what I have read here the components in the supermag are okay. It even holds one of fivemega's batterypacks.

A ceramic bi-pin holder from fivemega would pretty much complete the set.
It does not require soldering or modification of any kind, am I correct?
Just unscrew the old socket and insert the new one?

On the other hand I have some concerns about charging those 1650 Nimh batteries. I will have to buy a charger in my own country as I'm from europe.
I don't understand much about volts and the difference between 1650 or 2500 Nimh batteries. For what I know the 2500 Nimh batteries are the most common ones and a charger for these is not hard to find. Do I need another kind of charger for 1650 Nimh batteries than for these 2500's?

I'm in doubt if I should buy components or the complete supermag configuration. For one reason, I own a 4D-maglite. But I don't see configurations with that. Is it not possible to get more burntime from a configuration with more batteries in it?


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## graphicator

Can I use alkaline AA batteries? 
Could be handy when on a hike.


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## Delvance

Graphicator, welcome to CPF .


Both the 1650 and 2500 batteries you refer to are just rechargeable NiMH. The 1650 has less runtime but will make the light brighter (these batts. perform better under load than the 2500s) whilst the 2500s will give more runtime but less light output (the voltage of each cell sag more than the 1650 when the batt. is put under load ie. the lamp).

If you buy the light-edge turn key [email protected] would recommend getting a universal smart charger. These chargers allow you to charge ALL the batteries in the holder (so you don't have to remove them each time) and they also do it quite fast and auto cutoff when they sense the battery is fuly charged. Most of these chargers are capable of taking 110/240V in so all you have to worry about is a power adapter to fit the wall socket that your country uses.

A ceramic bipin holder from FM would make that light very nice , yup no soldering etc with this method. I read that FM will be receiving stock of these little gems soon.

You can use alkaline batteries...it won't be bright and it won't run very long though... reason being alkaline batteries don't tolerate high amp draw very well. The WA1185 lamp will draw about 3.15amps i believe...way too much for alkalines to handle.


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## graphicator

Thank you,

Your info is very helpful. I understand the differences between the batteries. I think I can make a better choice now. And thank you for the advice about the universal smart charger.

I'll be on the lookout for these components or for the complete configuration.


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## powernoodle

Just received a Magcharger and am very impressed with its output. [Newbies see it at www.brightguy.com under the Mag-lite section, and its review at www.flashlightreviews.com ]. Haven't done a side by side with a Mag85, and I'm sure the latter will win, but the Magcharger is a worthy contender and puts out a bunch of light right out of the box. Have some WA1160 bulbs to try in it as well for increased output. May start a new thread on the subject after I play around with 'em a little so as not to hijack this one. Maybe the Mag85 makes more light relative to the Magcharger or Magcharger/1160 than I think it does.

The punch line is that while Mag85 remains the standard bearer, the Magcharger (even with standard bulb) is a worthy second best, with the bonus of factory parts and warranty, and for fewer coins. Just FYI.

cheers


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## LuxLuthor

Here's two new FiveMega rechargeables:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/114148

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/114510


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## Nitro

Bump!

Good info in this thead.


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## sygyzy

Delvance said:


> Graphicator, welcome to CPF .
> 
> 
> Both the 1650 and 2500 batteries you refer to are just rechargeable NiMH. The 1650 has less runtime but will make the light brighter (these batts. perform better under load than the 2500s) whilst the 2500s will give more runtime but less light output (the voltage of each cell sag more than the 1650 when the batt. is put under load ie. the lamp).
> 
> If you buy the light-edge turn key [email protected] would recommend getting a universal smart charger. These chargers allow you to charge ALL the batteries in the holder (so you don't have to remove them each time) and they also do it quite fast and auto cutoff when they sense the battery is fuly charged. Most of these chargers are capable of taking 110/240V in so all you have to worry about is a power adapter to fit the wall socket that your country uses.
> 
> A ceramic bipin holder from FM would make that light very nice , yup no soldering etc with this method. I read that FM will be receiving stock of these little gems soon.
> 
> You can use alkaline batteries...it won't be bright and it won't run very long though... reason being alkaline batteries don't tolerate high amp draw very well. The WA1185 lamp will draw about 3.15amps i believe...way too much for alkalines to handle.




Are there any recommendations on alternatives to CBP1650's? I have a mishmash of 2xxx mAh NiMH's and they don't seem that bright. So far I am not awed by my Mag85 over a LuxIII modded Mag 3D (Direct Drive). CBP has been sold out for at least two weeks now. I was thinking about placing an order at Thomas Distributing for a charger as well as some cells. What AA's would you recommend?

Thanks.


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## DreamScape

Sanyo 2500's 

GoodLuck


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## Delvance

Sygyzy,


What Dreamscape said . Sanyo 2500s perform fairly well (2nd best behind CBP1650) under high amp draw. The thing is, at ~3.3A draw (the 1185 bulb), the Sanyos and the CBPs are fairly similar in performance.

I noticed you don't have a location posted next to your name so i'll chuck this option in as well. Some countries can get Sanyo Eneloop NiMH batteries already...these are rated at 2000mAh but have the saving grace of having extremely low self discharge. Normal NiMHs discharge ~1% a day whilst the eneloops...i think they lose about 15% over one year (not exact on the % but something close to 15) and these eneloops also seem to handle high amp draw fairly well looking at some discharge graph tests.

Oh, Sanyo 2700mAh AA are out now!


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## Rochestercop

Just curious. I use a MagCharger as a backup duty light. Could I swap out a WA bulb and LOP reflector and still use the stock battery? Would this give me a noticeable improvement in output and throw?

BTW: I am still waiting for my factory upgrades for my Tiger Light.


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## jdriller

Just swap out the bulb for a WA1160. Less battery life, but a boatload more light.


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## Rochestercop

Would it be worth the trouble (or possible) to swap out the reflector as well?


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## jdriller

Not possible, charger has a special reflector. Custom charger reflectors were most recently offered by CPF'er Fivemega, but that was long ago.


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## jdriller

Sorry, forgot my manners. Welcome to CPF! Sit back, learn a lot, and say goodbye to your money :  :


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## dragoman

Rochestercop said:


> Would it be worth the trouble (or possible) to swap out the reflector as well?


 
No real need unless you want a stippled/orange peel reflector. MC comes with aluminum reflector so no danger of melting.

dragoman


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

A little Armour Etch cream used on the bulb (test maybe 30 seconds at a time) will give similar results of a LOP.

My MC60 has a very nice beam like that!


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## Josey

Rochestercop:

Welcome to CPF. For your MC, you can also get a 4000mAh battery pack made of 5 1/2D NiMH cells (to replace the 2500mAh stock pack) to go with the 1160 bulb to get both more light and runtime. --Josey


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## Bob_G

I've Dremeled a couple bulbs and it works well and is very easy and you don't have to worry about dying or anything. The medium grit sanding wheel (multi layered fabric thing) works best. I've done full bulb and top half, but not bottom half. Full is a waste of time, not needed. I'd like to compare top to bottom, but I also don't want to waste bulbs on meaningless experiments, since I pretty much decided the proper reflector works better. But ... with bulbs other than small WA, you don't necessarily have a lot of reflector options, so may end up doing more.

The basic problem if you're obsessed with beam purity like me, is that the small ream reflectors put their extra light right into spot artifacts, so you end up with a heavier reflector surface to compensate. Put it another way, the best beam I have overall is a 1185, top half frosted (Dremeled) but in a spec ream LOP. That huge hole keeps the filament from messing up the spot, and the frosting smooths things out, and it's a beautiful beam. But it's not as bright as it could be because of that ream. And life goes on ...


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## ciam

powernoodle said:


> There are cheaper plastic adapters, each of which are the size of a 3D battery and each which hold 3 AA batteries (so you have to use 3 of them), but dont use these unless you have to (IMO).


 
Would you please elaborate a little more on this part? Is it unsafe.... maybe because of its plastic construction? Or just inefficient.... maybe due to the more/poorer contact points in this setup? Or something else?

I figure that the most expensive components of a top Mag85 mod are the cells and their holder. So, I plan to power the light initially with my existing 2500mAh NiMH cells in 3 of those cheaper plastic adatpers. Then, upgrade to FiveMega's 9 x protected 14500s to 3D eventually. Just want to make sure I could live to make the upgrade.....


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## Delvance

Basically, the plastic holders aren't very sturdy and won't last long as you have to keep taking them apart to get the batteries out for charging. Some people have also had contact issues with these holders and they also don't work well/at all with CBP 1650's until you mod them with solder etc.


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## davidra

It's safe. I actually ran one of my Mag85's on 9 lithium AA's from BS before I got rechargeables. Output seemed pretty good to me and the holders held up well. You need to be careful taking the top off to avoid breaking the little tabs, but they worked fine for me.....


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## Brighteyez

If these are the plastic holders from Litemania, a co-worker ordered some of those. I tried a couple last night and they would not make proper contact in a 2D Mag to illuminate the bulb. It was late and I haven't had an opportunity to determine if which pole was not making contact. I did take a couple of the adapters and stick them into an old Eveready 2D light (stamped steel reflector) with a Mag 6 cell Mag-num Star Xenon bulb and it lit up rather impressively; something in a magnitude exceeding the throw from a Stinger and that from the Mag LED lights. Will poke around a little more to see if I can get it to work reliably in a Mag. 



Delvance said:


> Basically, the plastic holders aren't very sturdy and won't last long as you have to keep taking them apart to get the batteries out for charging. Some people have also had contact issues with these holders and they also don't work well/at all with CBP 1650's until you mod them with solder etc.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

The 3AA-D holders are not terrible by any stretch, but care must be used!

I clearly marked mine with a sharpie as to cap and battery orientation.

I have enough Jonathan and FM adapters now for my needs, but just barely!!!


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## Brighteyez

Were you able to use any of them in a Mag? 



 PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> The 3AA-D holders are not terrible by any stretch, but care must be used!


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Yep. M*g 2D, 3D, Rayovac 2 and 3D etc.

Carefully check battery orientation! It's terribly easy to make a mistake, hence my sharpie mod!


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## Brighteyez

The adapters are working fine in another flashlight. There just seems to be some break in the circuit when they're used in a Mag. Didn't have time to fool around with it much last night, but my guess is that either the positive button isn't touching the contact spring in the Mag, or the tailcap spring isn't making adequate contact with the negative pole.

BTW, the adapters do have + and - molded into them. A little Liquid Paper, or tire marker into the indentation would make it stand out much more without having to resort to other colors.



PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Yep. M*g 2D, 3D, Rayovac 2 and 3D etc.
> 
> Carefully check battery orientation! It's terribly easy to make a mistake, hence my sharpie mod!


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

OH! Just thought of this! If your tailcap spring is stock, it probably has a big enough cehter hole to not create a negative connection. The mod is to close up the top coil with pliers or such. Or use a flat washer to help.

Sorry I forgot that!


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## Brighteyez

Yeah, that was what I was going to do if it turned out to be the negative end that wasn't making adequate contact. Pretty much the same thing that Doug did at http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/maglite_2c-123a_mod.htm

The Mag 6 cell Xenon seems to have a lot of latitude (I was able to power it with 2 D cells and get a beam that was bright enough to project across a room), so I figured I'd put a D cell in series with the battery holder (total of 4.8 or 6V) and jockey around to see which end doesn't work.

And this is indeed a variation of the 2c-123a mod, except that it uses 6AAs and a 2D body.

*EDIT: *Looks like the problem with the battery adapters from Litemania were with the positive pole. The button doesn't protrude far enough to reach the contact spring on the Mags. Guess I could try a dab of solder or soldering a thick washer to it to increase the height. Open to any other ideas as well.



PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> OH! Just thought of this! If your tailcap spring is stock, it probably has a big enough cehter hole to not create a negative connection. The mod is to close up the top coil with pliers or such. Or use a flat washer to help.
> 
> Sorry I forgot that!


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## NikolaTesla

Kinda like this:









9 NiMh cells without regulator powering Welch Allyn 1185 bulb. Above uses potted bulb. Below bipin version:


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## bimemrboy318

What about using 4xCR123s in a Mag 2D with the Mag85 setup?





Delvance said:


> Graphicator, welcome to CPF .
> 
> 
> Both the 1650 and 2500 batteries you refer to are just rechargeable NiMH. The 1650 has less runtime but will make the light brighter (these batts. perform better under load than the 2500s) whilst the 2500s will give more runtime but less light output (the voltage of each cell sag more than the 1650 when the batt. is put under load ie. the lamp).
> 
> If you buy the light-edge turn key [email protected] would recommend getting a universal smart charger. These chargers allow you to charge ALL the batteries in the holder (so you don't have to remove them each time) and they also do it quite fast and auto cutoff when they sense the battery is fuly charged. Most of these chargers are capable of taking 110/240V in so all you have to worry about is a power adapter to fit the wall socket that your country uses.
> 
> A ceramic bipin holder from FM would make that light very nice , yup no soldering etc with this method. I read that FM will be receiving stock of these little gems soon.
> 
> You can use alkaline batteries...it won't be bright and it won't run very long though... reason being alkaline batteries don't tolerate high amp draw very well. The WA1185 lamp will draw about 3.15amps i believe...way too much for alkalines to handle.


----------



## Delvance

bimemrboy318,

I wouldn't try it imho. Given that most CR123s are rated around 1300mAh or so and the 1185 will draw at least 3.2A...will mean you're discharging those poor cells at over 2.4C. Alot of the exploding cells reported on CPF were in applications of 1C or so. I'm pretty sure the SF M6 draws a fair bit less current than what a 1185 would on CR123s and we still see some M6's running into thermal shutdown during an extended running.


----------



## fivemega

Primary CR123 can't handle 3 Amps.
It is possible to use 2parallel, 4 series primary123s to power up WA1185 for less than an hour but still not bright as 9xNiMH AAs


----------



## bimemrboy318

fivemega said:


> Primary CR123 can't handle 3 Amps.
> It is possible to use 2parallel, 4 series primary123s to power up WA1185 for less than an hour but still not bright as 9xNiMH AAs


 
Looks like my main roadblock is that I need to get away from primaries and invest in a couple sets of AA NiMHs.


----------



## dimbulb

Agreed with PowerNoodle about Mag Charger.
As a newbie, I got the Mag Charger based on some good advices on this forum. This light kicks butt from here to Timbuktu (compared to my pathetic old Mag 3D).

Now you guys got me interested in Mag85 mod!
This is a bad site - a secret plot to part "fools" from their hard-earned money.
Wait till my wife see this month's credit card balance.


----------



## andrewwynn

grrrrr.. double-post.


----------



## andrewwynn

Wow what a bunch of nice info about mag85 in one place. 

A few things not covered quite well enough:

1) the reason for not instaflashing much with any 'mag85' is almost always weak cells or lots of resistance in the circuit... or having quite a lot of patience after charging.. the trade off is lots longer bulb life for lot's less lumen.. they typical 'mag85' if using a bi-pin adapter can not be expected to have more than about 750 lumen of output... and i've gotten measurements of lower than 550.

2) The only solution i've come up with for primary-powered 1185 is 4S3P CR123.. that gets the draw down to just over an amp and should get you about an hour runtime (almost typo'd 'funtime'.. also applicable).. I use 9xAA Lithium for the 1331 and that will be about 70+min runtime it's fantastic. With a no-load voltage of 12V.. not 100% sure what the odds of instaflashing are, but the 1185 lamp can actually be pushed up to 11.5V without blowing, but i wouldn't do it w/o a regulator. Under load, 4S3P of CR123 (primary) should pull down to lamp voltage around 10V average, so actually should work ok direct-drive... i still recommend a regulator to eliminate power surge at startup (power surge on 1185 is probably about 100W at startup). 

3) I will come out an officially say it.. if you use anything but high-drain cells.. don't expect more than 70-80% of the light output of using the proper cells... they don't have to be CBP1650s.. (which really are more like 1400mAH).. but use some AAs that the 'RC crowd' approve of for flying airplanes and RC car/boat etc... 

4) extremely high-output batteries like a 3S3P of 17500 or 9S of GP2000 is a guarantee to insta-flash if you have a good bat. pack and low-resistance switch circuitry. A typical maglite will have 160-180 miliohms of resistance.. that means a loss of about 133 lumen for using a stock switch.. (with the advantage of a much longer bulb life of course). These packs work great if regulated.. i use 11.1V and get about 17% more light out of my http://M85.rouse.com compared to a typical mag85. 

5) For bat. packs that don't quite reach the Pos spring inside the light.. modify the spring, not the bat. pack.. i solder copper discs onto the spring for use with flat-top batteries such as the D LiON. You can probably just use a solder-bump that is sanded down flat.. use a bit of wire to help fill the hole.. and i recommend silver-solder .. it's a lot harder and won't wear down.

6) I don't recommend at all use of the 3>D plastic adapters. I have a few here and have yet to test the resistance facts about them... it is not going to come out well.. I've measured on the order of a volt or more of drop at times with the likes of the modamag adapter before the springs are removed ... springs are the death of hotwire output.. the maglite tailcap spring alone costs over 30 lumen with a mag85. (shorting out the spring with a piece of 18ga or thicker wire fixes it basically 100%).. i measured a 96% drop in resistance by putting 16ga wire between the ends of the maglite tailcap spring.. (went from 35 miliohms to 1.3!). 

7) The 1185 lamp is just a stunner... the efficiency at near 11V is almost off the charts, and it's the 'gold standard' of white light... it's a bit tricky to find a battery solution that can hold the voltage up there, even the cbp1650 doesn't hold full output very long... see #8

8) better bat. packs are just around the corner.. i recently figured out how to get a 3AH pack into a 3D stock light (with a bit of DIY).. this will double the runtime and hold output constant for most of the run. In addition.. the packs using LION cells will be able to have shelf-life! 

9) A magcharger doesn't qualify as 'hotwire' unless modded with the 1160 lamp or better.. even with the 1160 lamp the output is just about 1/3 that of a properly made mag85.. so yes..... the mag85 puts out a lot more light than some might think, but the magcharger 1160 is a very useful amount of light.. a bit of frosting on the bulb and it's a very nice beam.. The stock lamp is i think about 8W.. it's not a bad bulb, just not very powerful, and the efficiency is not great because it's not being pushed very hard.

So there are my 9¢. 

-awr


----------



## bimemrboy318

I've just stumbled upon the Streamlight TL-3. It seems that it could play host to a 1185 bi-pin bulb without any mods using it's 4xCR123s. What's the "4S3P" you mention andrew?

Also, what's the max amp discharge of a CR123? And what nominal voltage can be expected from this cell during use ~2.3V? I want to get into these mods but just can't take the leap into buying a bunch of rechargeable batts.

One more thing, what's the amp draw from a stock 5-cell White Star bulb? Just curious how many watts my 3xCR123 in a Mag2C setup is producing.


----------



## ciam

andrewwynn said:


> 8) better bat. packs are just around the corner.. i recently figured out how to get a 3AH pack into a 3D stock light (with a bit of DIY).. this will double the runtime and hold output constant for most of the run. In addition.. the packs using LION cells will be able to have shelf-life!
> 
> -awr


 
I'm *extremely* interested in knowing what that's.... eargerly waiting and looking forward to the day when (or if) you're ready to share it here.


----------



## jar3ds

ciam said:


> I'm *extremely* interested in knowing what that's.... eargerly waiting and looking forward to the day when (or if) you're ready to share it here.


 muahahaha

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/130643


----------



## Northern Lights

Rochestercop said:


> Would it be worth the trouble (or possible) to swap out the reflector as well?


 
Recently I applied Armour Etch, from hobby and craft shops, to the WA 1160 bulb in my Magcharger. I put it only on the sides of the bulb, left the top plain original. Let it sit 25-30 minutes. It doesn't look like much frosting but it took care of the artifacts and retains the throw. I am looking for some dropped jaws tonight on the tactical night shoot I am about to go to in an hour.


----------



## andrewwynn

bimemr... i'm not faimliar with the TL-3.. you need a 10.8V power plant with 3.4A capability (at least 2.25AH for LION).. it sounds like it's 4-series CR123 light.. which nope.. a 'no can do' for 1185.. you need at least 8 cells.. 2 rows of 4 in series using primary lithium 123... 

There is a great battery shoot-out from silverfox as a 'sticky' in the batterys included.. it shows all the different brands of 123s in many drain situations.

I wouldn't attempt to use a CR123 at more than 2A.. and even at 1.5A you will only get about 2.3V under load... no idea on the lamp draw.. if you have the lamp you can get some idea by using a DC ammeter and shorting from the bat- inside the light to the rim on the body. 

ciam.. the battery packs are called the smartpak and the info thread is already posted.. will be converted to a sales thread within a couple weeks.. http://smartpak.rouse.com 

-awr


----------



## automagic

Okay... argh I know this is an old thread and I hate to bring it back up for a newb question... but I figure the answer to my question might be useful to other would be m*g 85 builders.

I have an 8 bay AA smart nimh charger. Is there anything wrong with using it to charge the 9 AA batteries in two runs? I thought I remember reading somewhere to charge the batteries all at the same time, but I cannot find where I saw that.

Also... would it be advisable to try to build your own battery holder out of some thick copper wire and pvc pipe besides the potential for encountering some resistance? 


I just built a 2D ROP over the weekend and am really loving it... (after my first bulb sent shrapnel all over my room with 7 AA's in it fresh off the charger - doh!




).. But now I am feeling the need for some more power and the M*g 85 really seems just like a beefed up ROP from the descriptions posted earlier... so it seems like the way to go!


----------



## Pokerstud

I strongly recommend the Fivemega 9AA to 3D white battery adapter for the Mag85. They are $39, he ships fast, and they are the best out there. I have the 6AA to 2D for my ROP. Then get yourself a Universal smart charger to charge the battery pack.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/129093&highlight=9AA

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/104771&highlight=Universal+smart+charger

I have done business with both of these people. They are great to do business with, they sell quality stuff. You can't go cheap crap with a Mag85, it will get the better of you.


----------



## automagic

Great - thanks for the links Poker!!


----------



## waTom

Hi,

Since I'm new to the CPF I think it'll take a while until I understand what all the terms and abbrevitations you use all the time :thinking:

Nevertheless, I'm very interested in building a Mag85 but all the posts about the batteries really confused me 

Why do I need one of these 9aa>3d battery holders? 
Are all 9 Batteries in series? I thought of buying 3 D NiMh batteries like the ones here?


----------



## SilverFox

Hello waTom,

Welcome to CPF.

Yes, the 9 AA to 3 D battery holder puts the 9 AA cells in series to get a proper voltage to drive the lamp.

Tom


----------



## Pokerstud

waTom said:


> Hi,
> 
> Since I'm new to the CPF I think it'll take a while until I understand what all the terms and abbrevitations you use all the time :thinking:
> 
> Nevertheless, I'm very interested in building a Mag85 but all the posts about the batteries really confused me
> 
> Why do I need one of these 9aa>3d battery holders?
> Are all 9 Batteries in series? I thought of buying 3 D NiMh batteries like the ones here?



Hello, 
Welcome. Like Silverfox stated, you need the 9AA to 3D for the 10.8V to drive the WA1185. Your link is for 1.2V 'D' x 3 is only 3.6V. May I suggest the following:

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm

For rechargable AA's get the 2700mAH Sanyo's. If you need rechargable 'D' batteries in the future, get the CTA 12000mAH. If you want a great charger for NiMH and/or Nicad 'D' batts get the Maha C808M. They can all be found at the above link. The links for the 9AA to 3D and the charger for it are in a post a couple up from this one.


----------



## waTom

Thanks a lot! Now I think I can start ordering


----------



## jasonsmaglites

i can't seem to get into light-edge.com is it possible they're out of business. where else can i get the wa 1185? i wanna upgrade my magcharger and possibly build a mag 85 3d/9aa
thanks, jason


----------



## nzgunnie

Fivemega usually has them for sale in one of his threads in the group buy section


----------



## oregon

A [email protected]. You don't see the terrific Kiu, heat resistant, switch mod. And, you don't see the Alin's excellent charger.

Since this pic was taken I've swapped out the smooth reflector for a cammed medium orange peel reflector and WOW what a smooth beam. Beautiful and ferocious.

All the best,

oregon


----------



## billybad

I was looking for batteries for this project and found these Y think this is good price will these be ok for this https://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=564 ty


----------



## Tempora

What about a 6D Maglite?


----------



## FILIPPO

Tempora said:


> What about a 6D Maglite?


what do you mean with "What about a 6D Maglite"?
I don't understand....


----------



## bridgman

I guess the question is whether there is a battery configuration which would generate the right voltage for a Mag85 using a 6D host. Using 1/2-D cells (about 3/5 the length of a D) will give you room for 10 cells; guess you could use 9 and a small spacer.

Sub-C cells are a bit too long to fit 9 cells in a 6D.


----------



## eyeeatingfish

So can you turn a magcharger into a mag85 by just replacing the bulb to a WA1160? The battery is more easily recharged.

Also, why would 9 AAs be better than 3Ds?


----------



## defusion

eyeeatingfish said:


> So can you turn a magcharger into a mag85 by just replacing the bulb to a WA1160? The battery is more easily recharged.
> 
> Also, why would 9 AAs be better than 3Ds?


3D's are 3.6 - 4.5v
9AA's are 10.8 - 13.5v

easy as pie


----------



## RickB

eyeeatingfish said:


> So can you turn a magcharger into a mag85 by just replacing the bulb to a WA1160? The battery is more easily recharged.



eyeeatingfish,

I'm not an expert, but I think typically the term Mag85 is reserved for modified Maglites using the Welch Allyn 1185 bulb. When you put the WA 1160 in the Magcharger it is sometimes referred to as the MC60 or MC1160.

I believe the 1185 is brighter than the 1160, but as you say, the Magcharger setup is a bit less complicated to put together, charge, and use.

-Rick


----------



## BSBG

RickB said:


> eyeeatingfish,
> 
> 
> I believe the 1185 is brighter than the 1160, but as you say, the Magcharger setup is a bit less complicated to put together, charge, and use.
> 
> -Rick



The Mag85 is substantially more light than an MC60, but the MC is just a $5 bulb swap. The smooth MC reflector makes for a sloppy beam, but once you get outdoors with it it doesn't seem so bad. If you have a MC sitting around, go for it.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

The nominal 6V of the MC Battery stick can't drive an 1185 to brightness.

The 1160 in a MC is no slouch!!! Litely frost it and get it centered in the reflector and it's pretty darn nice!


----------



## eyeeatingfish

I dont have a magcharger but I was thinking of getting one. I do have a 3d maglight sitting around waiting to be turned into an LED or turn it into a mag85 or a 60.

How much different is the 1185 and the 1160?


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I don't really have a way to say for sure. I percieve that the 1185 is brighter by a pretty good margin.

But I KNOW the 1160 is killer out in QUALITY dark. We were out in the middle of a decent sized lake and I could light up the trees on the banks just peachy.

And the cool thing about the 1160 is it sits in the charger just waiting to go. With LSD NimH the 1185 is almost always ready.

Since when using a 3D you must get a way to use the bi-pin bulb, a metal reflector, a glass lense and either a MC battery stick or a 9AA-3D adapter....

I'd make the 3D a M*g85 and get a M*gcharger to be an 1160 light.


----------



## mrQQ

just out of curiosity, how much would a pre-made Mag85 cost..?


----------



## FILIPPO

145$ with charger HERE


----------



## mrQQ

uh ok, that is a bit too expensive for me


----------



## LuxLuthor

That also did not include the cost of 9 x high current output quality AA cells, such as Amondo's Titanium 1800....add another $20. 

I would also prefer using a bipin holder, and getting plain 1185 bipin bulbs, rather than this potted one they sell with it.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

An MC60 (M*gcharger with WA01160 bulb) is a pretty cost effective hotwire.

Particularly if the MC can be had for 80ish...


----------



## eyeeatingfish

Ok, i got all the parts except the 9 batteries from Fivemega
The gold socket didnt fit inside the maglite base but a touch up with dremel tool made sure the bulb base would fit in. 
I installed the bulb making sure to hold it with a paper towel. Finger oils are bad for the glass right?
So all i need are the batteries, charge them, let them sit for 12 hours, put them in and i will have 800 lumens of light?

How much runtime should i expect?


----------



## FILIPPO

eyeeatingfish said:


> Ok, i got all the parts except the 9 batteries from Fivemega
> The gold socket didnt fit inside the maglite base but a touch up with dremel tool made sure the bulb base would fit in.
> I installed the bulb making sure to hold it with a paper towel. Finger oils are bad for the glass right?
> So all i need are the batteries, charge them, let them sit for 12 hours, put them in and i will have 800 lumens of light?
> 
> How much runtime should i expect?


 

it depends on which type of batts you'll choose...If you need more runtime I'd like to suggest Sanyo 2700 (actually I'm running 9 energizer 2500 on my mag85 and it's pretty bright and I can have about 35-40min of runtime[with switch and spring resistence foxed])
if you need less runtime but more lumens I suggest Titanium 1800 from HERE  I have read that CBP will offer new batteries like old CBP1650 soon...you can try to get them (LuxLuthor said that they will probably be better than Titanium)

good luck
filippo


----------



## eyeeatingfish

Do you think the titanium 1800 would be significantly brighter than the sanyo 2700?


----------



## FILIPPO

I think you can see the difference after few minutes becouse sanyos batteries volt drop more quickly that titaniums volt...


----------



## Icebreak

eyeeatingfish -

Here's the basic calculation: Divide the battery by the lamp.

mAh / mA * 60 = minutes of runtime.

There are other things to take account for like resistance, discharge rate etc. so the basic calculation is usually overly optimistic but not by a lot.

So if your 1185 is rated at 3.15A we can probably bump that up to 3.30A under load. If your batteries are 2500 mAh we can probably knock a 100 mAh off for reality's sake. Let's change the Amps to milliamps on your lamp to 3300 mAh for ease of use of the calculation.

2400mAh / 3300mA = .72hr * 60 = 43.6363 minutes calculated runtime.

Just plug the mAh rating of your batts into the calculation and you'll get an estimated runtime albeit a tad optimistic.


----------



## LuxLuthor

All batteries perform differently. To really know the run time of a particular battery, you need to see a load test done 3A & 5A because the 1185 draws above 3.2 to 3.4A with some degree of overdrive. Just looking at the mAh rating does not represent the quality of the cell.


----------



## half-watt

LuxLuthor said:


> All batteries perform differently...To really know the run time of a particular battery, you need to see a load test...Just looking at the mAh rating does not represent the quality of the cell.




LL is right. Capacity rating alone is a guesstimate. 

Another factor besides load that affects burntime is duty cycle. That is, how long is the light on, drawing a particular load, and how long is it off, allowing the battery to cool and "recover", so to speak, so of its remaining capacity. this recovery period wherein thermal energy is removed from the cell depends on a number of factors, not the least of which is the battery itself and especially the application which is hosting that battery. furthermore, while operating the ability of the host to dissipate heat is important as well.

Duty cycle and heat is just one reason why cavers very often switch back-and-forth between two primary light sources in order to allow the battery in each to cool during its resting period of the duty cycle.

just one reason why i carry two lights (AT LEAST!!!).


----------



## bullterrier

wher can i find the parts to a mag85 i vants one


----------



## BSBG

eyeeatingfish said:


> Ok, i got all the parts except the 9 batteries from Fivemega
> The gold socket didnt fit inside the maglite base but a touch up with dremel tool made sure the bulb base would fit in.
> I installed the bulb making sure to hold it with a paper towel. Finger oils are bad for the glass right?
> So all i need are the batteries, charge them, let them sit for 12 hours, put them in and i will have 800 lumens of light?
> 
> How much runtime should i expect?



Looks like you are all set to roll once you have power :naughty:.

It will run 20 to 30 minutes, depending on your batteries capacity. But you will love every one of them!


----------



## Icebreak

Yes, all true, LuxLuther and half-watt and that's why I mentioned other considerations to account for.

I thought it would be helpful for EEF, a relative new-comer, to have the basic calc so he could ball park his HotWire runtime while still in mid-build.

There are many other parameters not mentioned thus far such as the lamp's efficacy and averaging measured voltage drop and current drop into the equation.

In lieu of an actual run-time test the best way to estimate the runtime of a HotWire is to take V and A measurement at the lamp connection of your particular modded incandescent flashlight for a period of a few minutes to see where it settles down. Beware of estimation tables like AWR's "hotrater". It uses "goal seek". It is not correct for the WA1185 on several counts. I might be using it wrong but I don't see where it even takes into account current when goal seeking torch lumens.

My best Mag85 settles down quickly to 10.86 volts and 3.31 amps and sustains this measurement for several minutes. Using these 2200 mAh batteries I'm unsurprised that my estimate was 38 minutes and 12 seconds but it actually runs brightly up to ~39 minutes on a continuous run. This Mag85 is particularly bright and I believe that has much to do with the excellent delivery of current by the high-drain cells. The power source is rated at 40 amps so, in a pinch, my flashlight could probably start my truck.

I've done a lot of experiments on <50 watt HotWires and no longer try to estimate duration to the minute. I just ball park it and that way I'll probably know if something is wrong.

Again, I was just answering the question in a way that I thought would be useful without overloading the new fellow with TMI.


----------



## Northern Lights

This thread is alive again? 
What is the draw to making hot wire lights, bright light and long run time or just a bright light? Isn't the M85 which was the best in its day now just an ancestor in the quest for a bright modified light?
The M85 or WA1185 was a great find but has it not run its course with brighter bulbs available now that with the proper battery pack fit in all the M85 hosts and for that matter smaller hosts?
When I started building hot wires I started like many with the ROP because it was a simple drop in. Then I got more advanced. I never kept the M85 I was building because I learned quickly that I could get brighter light from other bulbs and the modification process was as simple as the M85. The simplesest was the 5761 which in all practicality puts out 100 torch lumens more than an 1185 and on less voltage which means a smaller battery pack or longer run time if you use the same size hosts. Then came the 1164 and added about another 250 lumens at 9.6 volts and then recently the 64430 that is over 2000 torch lumens.
So if I had one or two lights to build and my quest was for the brightest light I would not elect for a M85. The building process is the same for the most part for all the hot wires running less than 100 Watts. A three cell host can run a 5761 nearly at 900 torch lumens for an hour. 
Did I just stir the pot, guys?


----------



## eyeeatingfish

First, a general question, if its so easy to make these 800 lumen monsters, why dont flashlight companies jump on the bandwagon make production MAG85s and ROPs?

For NORTHERN LIGHTS

It was my understanding that the 1185 bulbs were brighter than the 1164.
http://www.light-edge.com/products.asp?section=Super Bulbs&cat=40
Or is there some significant difference between the 1164 and the 1166?

As far as the 5761 and the 64430, are there any informational threads about these lights?
And now that Ive got me a setup for a mag 85, how easy is it to toy with other bulbs that you say are brighter and have better runtime?
Is it a matter of just buying a 5761 bulb and dropping it in to the mag85?
I did a little bit of searching and found a website dealing them. They list the bulb at 765 lumens, not as much as the 1185 bulbs are listed at...
This website puts the 64430 lower than the 1185 too
http://www.topbulb.com/find/Product_Description.asp_Q_intProductID_E_45742

These bulbs are overdriven right? If that means the number on the websites isnt actual output, wouldnt that mean the output of the 1185 is actually higher too?

My questions is jsut about lights driven by nimhs. I dont know enough about how to build real battery packs and i know lithium batteries are rather dangerous so I stay away from them. I know the potential is cool but there are a lot of people here who dont know how to use lithiums safely, and there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of caution given about the lithiums from people who explain mods. I guess thats another story though.


----------



## Grox

Ah, good questions! I've only played with the WA1185 on 9xAA NiMh setup.

This is the way I understand overdrive. Overdrive puts more power through a bulb to create much more light at a higher (whiter) colour temperature at the expense of bulb life. At WA's specs the WA1185 runs at 9.6V and 3.15A giving 35W. In a classic mag85, however, the 1185 is running 9xNiMh. This is 9x1.2V = 10.8V. I forget how many amps are going through the lamp. 

Rechargeables put out higher voltage when freshly recharged. This is why you will see references to "resting" the batteries to allow the voltage to come down so as to reduce the chance of instaflashing the bulb.

Once you get past 10W you need to change out the stock plastic mag reflector as it will melt from the heat generated.

List of WA bulbs and links to rerate
WA1185 rerated to 10.8V (9 NiMh)

Once bulb life is about 10 hours or less, you are getting into instaflash territory. As you can see in the example, the 1185 rerates to about 1200 "bulb" lumens.


----------



## Northern Lights

eyeeatingfish said:


> First, a general question, if its so easy to make these 800 lumen monsters, why dont flashlight companies jump on the bandwagon make production MAG85s and ROPs?
> 
> For NORTHERN LIGHTS
> 
> It was my understanding that the 1185 bulbs were brighter than the 1164.
> http://www.light-edge.com/products.asp?section=Super%20Bulbs&cat=40
> Or is there some significant difference between the 1164 and the 1166?
> 
> As far as the 5761 and the 64430, are there any informational threads about these lights?
> And now that Ive got me a setup for a mag 85, how easy is it to toy with other bulbs that you say are brighter and have better runtime?
> edit:
> I Love the name: eyeeatingfish, I often use the screen name piscivorous, it means the same thing!
> 
> Is it a matter of just buying a 5761 bulb and dropping it in to the mag85?
> I did a little bit of searching and found a website dealing them. They list the bulb at 765 lumens, not as much as the 1185 bulbs are listed at...
> This website puts the 64430 lower than the 1185 too
> http://www.topbulb.com/find/Product_Description.asp_Q_intProductID_E_45742
> 
> These bulbs are overdriven right? If that means the number on the websites isnt actual output, wouldnt that mean the output of the 1185 is actually higher too?
> 
> My questions is jsut about lights driven by nimhs. I dont know enough about how to build real battery packs and i know lithium batteries are rather dangerous so I stay away from them. I know the potential is cool but there are a lot of people here who dont know how to use lithiums safely, and there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of caution given about the lithiums from people who explain mods. I guess thats another story though.


You got some catching up to do. The 1185 is at the bottom of the 1164, 5761 and 64430 as far as torch lumens. Now remember bulb lumens is what the bulb can out put. Torch lumens is about 65% of that. There are a big bunch of equations to figure that. Google up a link to the Hotrater that was authored by AWR, a not so active member these days. The old sheet is pretty good. That spread sheet allows you to enter voltages and get the results, if you are good with excell you can enter the new bulb specs and create new entries. Search the key word 5761 in CPF and you will get numerous threads. Search also 1164, it out puts about 1016 torch lumens. The m85 is high 700-low 800s usually. With good switch and tailcap modification, 11.1 volts and a hot driver , soft start and regulated you may get it up to 900-1000 but that is really rare. Here is some to think about.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=168564
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127925
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170280
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=147344
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=149011
1164
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=155509&highlight=1164
this thread is a sales thread if you look through it you can see how many are building 5761s in 2 C lights, small with a 100 more lumen output than a M85, but you can build a M85 in a 3C with these as well
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=168596

These will help with the build:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=130965
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=143345
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=99710
edit:
I just did the equations in the hotrater for a M85 on a 10.8 Vbat pack and no resistance work done on the switch and tail cap, stock items. Potted bulb or on a pr to bi pin socket. The output is rated 661 torch lumens.


----------



## LuxLuthor

As Northern Lights has said, you just need to spend a little time doing research and reading threads to get yourself up to speed, his links are a good place to start. To answer one question, no you cannot just drop other bulbs into an existing mod package. You need to match up voltages, bulb types, and be aware of the resistance/current flows in a particular setup.

There is an updated Hotrater spreadsheet which is still the best tool to figure out what variations in mods will put out with various bulbs and battery combinations. No one has come up with any alternative that comes anywhere near it.


----------



## Spypro

Reflectors question here:
What would be the best option for best throw ?
I'm a little bit confused with the SMO (smooth), VLOP, LOP, MOP and HOP reflectors... and also the stripped ones.

Thanks!


----------



## DonShock

The smooth will give the best throw but does nothing to remove any artifacts in the beam. As you add texture to the reflector, the throw will get shorter, but the beam will be smoother with less artifacts. The orange peel is a decent compromise between smoothing the beam and preserving throw. The stippled texture is a more aggressive texture and makes for a very smooth "wall of light" but shortens throw considerably.


----------



## Spypro

Thanks !
I think I will buy a SMO and VLOP or LOP because I'm building my Mag85 for throw.


----------



## eyeeatingfish

Ive been trying to read up on this but when people start converting volts and whatnot i get confused.

What do you mean hotwire lights?

Why is it that the WA1185 has a higher lumen than 5761 and 64430 but youre telling me they are brighter?
Is it jsut because they are driven harder than people drive the 1185s?
Are there any disadvantages to the 5761 mod?

I read the ones about how to bypass the spring for less resistance, ill have to try that one. The others I will have to wait for later to read as i have to go to work.


----------



## Northern Lights

eyeeatingfish said:


> Ive been trying to read up on this but when people start converting volts and whatnot i get confused.
> 
> What do you mean hotwire lights?
> 
> Why is it that the WA1185 has a higher lumen than 5761 and 64430 but youre telling me they are brighter?
> Is it jsut because they are driven harder than people drive the 1185s?
> Are there any disadvantages to the 5761 mod?
> 
> I read the ones about how to bypass the spring for less resistance, ill have to try that one. The others I will have to wait for later to read as i have to go to work.


Well, first off, the hotrater will be sent later tonight from a faster computer. Hotwire is the nick name CPF'ers have given incadescent lights that we overdrive the voltage to make the filament exactly that, a hotwire. Temperatures will be in the 'rater also to look at.
Why is the 1185 higher lumen? Are you refering to the specificaion sheet running the bulb at OEM specs? If that is the case that could be true. To determine how bright a bulb is at a given voltage the Manufactureres test them. Bulbs get brighter when you increase he voltage. When you do that you decrease the time they can burn. The filament is always burning up. Bulbs with long lifes give us the opprotunity to increase the voltage and and lower the life and raise the amount of out put. It is a race between the two specifiations. Filaments are made with with different alloy mixes, thickeness, shapes and put in different gas mixtures. That all influences how much light comes out and how much time the bulb burns at a given voltage. So the manufactures specification is actually arbitrary but is a starting point. The physics and chemistry follow known equations, hence the hotrater.
Later.


----------



## LuxLuthor

eyeeatingfish said:


> Why is it that the WA1185 has a higher lumen than 5761 and 64430 but youre telling me they are brighter?
> Is it jsut because they are driven harder than people drive the 1185s?
> Are there any disadvantages to the 5761 mod?



Here is an easy way to see it. The WA 1185 has a default manufacturer bulb lumen output of 817-BL at 9.6V and a life of 50 hours. Note the voltage/amp change I made manually in the URL to see how it re-rates in right column. Bumping the voltage to the bulb up to about 10.8V gives that new *1233 *BL, Amp, Life rating.

The Philips 5761 defaults are 765-BL at 6V and a life of 100 hours. Bumping this voltage up to about 7.15V kicks up the BL to *1400*, 5.5A, and 12.2 hours left.​These are not exactly precise estimates, and the farther you get from only 25% overdriving, the more inaccurate the Excel Hotrater Spreadsheet predictions become that Andrew Rouse ("AWR") developed...mainly be extrapolating backwards as to how WA came up with their overdrive calculations. He has been improving it.


----------



## eyeeatingfish

Northern Lights said:


> Well, first off, the hotrater will be sent later tonight from a faster computer. Hotwire is the nick name CPF'ers have given incadescent lights that we overdrive the voltage to make the filament exactly that, a hotwire. Temperatures will be in the 'rater also to look at.
> Why is the 1185 higher lumen? Are you refering to the specificaion sheet running the bulb at OEM specs? If that is the case that could be true. To determine how bright a bulb is at a given voltage the Manufactureres test them. Bulbs get brighter when you increase he voltage. When you do that you decrease the time they can burn. The filament is always burning up. Bulbs with long lifes give us the opprotunity to increase the voltage and and lower the life and raise the amount of out put. It is a race between the two specifiations. Filaments are made with with different alloy mixes, thickeness, shapes and put in different gas mixtures. That all influences how much light comes out and how much time the bulb burns at a given voltage. So the manufactures specification is actually arbitrary but is a starting point. The physics and chemistry follow known equations, hence the hotrater.
> Later.



I understand the increase in voltage meaning a brighter light and a shorter life. 
I also see that websites selling these bulbs give a rating at a certain level.
Since these bulbs are being overdriven that means we will actually get more than the website specifies.
Does the 5761 bulb produce more light than the 1185 because it is being overdriven to a greater extent than the 1185 bulb?
Lets see if im getting this
6761 bulb is normally 6volts, while 1185 is normally 9.6 volts. 10.8 volts from 9 AAA would almost double the 5761 bulb's normal voltage, is that why its brighter?

So is it jsut a matter of playing with bulbs and voltages? Say i just took a 5761 bulb and threw it into a mag85 mod replacing the 1185 bulb? Im sure someone tried this, maybe the buld couldnt handle 10.8 volts?
So what is the downside to the 5761 and 64430 bulbs?

Basically this Northern, i just dropped about $100 to put this mag85 mod together as a very high intensity light for police work then i need a lot of light and now youre telling me there is better and im getting a little lost, plus youre kinda bursting my little bubble of wow a cool new light before i even got the batteries to use it!. If i can spend just a few more bucks to get a brighter and longer burning light id like to know how. Ill keep reading through the links you sent though.


----------



## Northern Lights

eyeeatingfish said:


> I understand the increase in voltage meaning a brighter light and a shorter life.
> I also see that websites selling these bulbs give a rating at a certain level.
> Since these bulbs are being overdriven that means we will actually get more than the website specifies.
> Does the 5761 bulb produce more light than the 1185 because it is being overdriven to a greater extent than the 1185 bulb?
> Lets see if im getting this
> 6761 bulb is normally 6volts, while 1185 is normally 9.6 volts. 10.8 volts from 9 AAA would almost double the 5761 bulb's normal voltage, is that why its brighter?
> 
> So is it jsut a matter of playing with bulbs and voltages? Say i just took a 5761 bulb and threw it into a mag85 mod replacing the 1185 bulb? Im sure someone tried this, maybe the buld couldnt handle 10.8 volts?
> So what is the downside to the 5761 and 64430 bulbs?
> 
> Basically this Northern, i just dropped about $100 to put this mag85 mod together as a very high intensity light for police work then i need a lot of light and now youre telling me there is better and im getting a little lost, plus youre kinda bursting my little bubble of wow a cool new light before i even got the batteries to use it!. If i can spend just a few more bucks to get a brighter and longer burning light id like to know how. Ill keep reading through the links you sent though.


I got 34 years in blue uniforms, few have that senority, agreed? been there did that for most things in this profession. I use the two different 5761 every night for patrol and carry a chinese LED that is brighter than major name cr123 lights as back up. My belt light is a mag 2c-cell with AW lithium C-cells, 5761, I got a $172 into it, it has 4 modes. Blinds the heck out folks when I want their night vision a little blurry.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170280 
What you get for bulb specifications is arbitrary. The balance between rated volts, bulb life and out put vary depending on the voltage applied and the physical properties of the filament. It is an arbitrary assignment by the manufacturer. But the balance is equatable therefore predictable. 
Example the 5761 is rated 6V, 765 bulb-lumens (formula says this is 497 torch lumens), 100 hours but the manufacturer could just as well said 7 volts, 1330 bulb-lumens ( 854 torch lumens), 15 hours. That is not a standard value so bulb makers use standard power ratings as a basis in their designs basing the factors on voltages like 1.5, 3, 6,12, 24, etc.
The 5761 will insta-flash easily, burn out, with about 7.2 volts at the bulb so no you cannot put it on the same voltage as a 1185. 
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=170972 my thread about insta flashing.
That difference is due to the physical make up of the filament wire. The 1185 has a more robust filament. The overdive for the 5761 is 28%, for the 1185 it is 18%. You can see that with the spread sheet calculator I sent you. Color and brightness are due to the actual temperature that the wire reaches in the bulb. The spread sheet will tell you over drive and the % to melting temperature, temperatue and effeciency.
And exactly what is happening to you happened to me. I started building lights and just as I finished the 1185 I found the 5761 thread by BobG. And I went from there. I took it apart and sold the bulbs and ended up loving the 5761. Hotwires are not always predictable, that is part of the fun but CPF is full of the final results. The 1185 came first then we discovered new or different bulbs. There is no downside to a 5761 because the voltage is lower the battery pack can be larger giving it a higher amp/hour capacity. My Mag Charger sport a 5761 too and has a 7.2 volt 5500mAh battery pack, PowerX AA, twelve of them. The 5761 draws 5.5 mAh. It runs and hour. My 10.8 volt battery pack is 2200 mAh, it was intended for the 1185, it would run the 3.34 amp 1185 for 39 minutes. What is better? The 64430 is about a 20 minute bulb on that pack. The 64430 is a big bulb using a G6.35 base and can be difficult to focus a reflector for it. It also is hot and has a limitation how long you can run it, it gets too hot to handle. The light is terribly hot and heat can ruin things. This is a new hotwire and we are just beginning to learn what we can do with it.
You know there is nothing wrong with an 1185. The bulb is more difficult to come by than the projector bulb 5761. It runs at a higher voltage so your battery pack usually is smaller in capacity than a 5761 so it has a shorter run time and it is not as bright. But it is bright enough and has a wonderful beam pattern and does not get too hot to handle. For the same money there are alternatives. You cannot make a wrong choice by anybody's standards other than you own. You have choices, look for what would suit you then pursue it. If you decide the 5761 has the features you like over the 1185 go for it. Otherwise build the 1185 but in any case, you build one and you will keep on building Welcome to the obsession


----------



## eyeeatingfish

Ok, i think i get it all now. 
I guess the ony problem i would have is figuring out how to get batteries for the 5761 that only ad up to the 7 volts. I had a 3D lying aroudn the house so the mag1185 seemed obvious choice. Im not going to build lithium packs as I understand they can be dangerous.
Would it jsut be a matter of finding an adapter that holds 6AA to make the 7.2 volts and puting a extender to take up the extra space?
That is of course an idea that would make it so i wouldnt have to go out and buy another Mag body.
When you said this 
"My Mag Charger sport a 5761 too and has a 7.2 volt 5500mAh battery pack, PowerX AA, twelve of them."
I got a little confused because 12AA would be 14.4 volts. Also to fit 12 AAs wouldnt you need a 4D host? Are you able to get 7.2 by making them parallel rather than serial?


----------



## Northern Lights

12 AA makes a pack 4 wide three long. 6P2S ~ 6*2=12 which means 6 in parallel, that adds the voltage, and 2 in series that adds capacity, Ah.
AA cells vary in diameter. Some good brands 4x will fit D mags without boring. The highest capacity is Maha PowerX followed by Sanyo but you need to bore your mag 4x for these or buy a quad bore. Jesus Hernandez bores them Fivemega sells bored lights. I have a bore machine but am not taking on any extra projects at the moment. You can see what I mean:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169824
There are some AAs that do not need the mag bored and can handle high loads that are around 2300 mAh. You can ask or search CPF to find those.
LuxLuthor uses many types of battery packs, I trust his judgement and experience on a choice there. Maybe he will join us again with a recommendation.
FM markets two lengths of D tube extenders that he made specifically for mag chargers, beautiful work. I will email you later about some D extenders.
I think we can get you going without a big investment turn over.


----------



## Wincet

So then which bulb would give the most lumens in a mag85 type mod (it can be adjusted to supply the correct voltage)?


----------



## Northern Lights

Wincet said:


> So then which bulb would give the most lumens in a mag85 type mod (it can be adjusted to supply the correct voltage)?


In a moderate hot wire modified light the lumen output is greatest to least in this order when run near maximum voltage levels. I have listed some mod results that have popped up and show which most likely need a driver, without a driver they blow. The common 1185 is only 772 torch lumens. Once AWR concocted a hotdriver and GP2000 cells and got an 1185 to run on 11.1 volts at the bulb, there is a thread and it got up there as you see but that was a sucessful experiment, only a couple of folks have posted 1185s that can do that.
Using hot rater and the figures for a light modified to lower switch, socket and tailcap resistance the output is:

64430 9.9Vbat.~2218 torch lumens
64430 9.6Vbat.~2006 torch lumens
1164 10.8Vbat.~1248 torch lumens (needs a driver)
1185 11.1Vbulb.~871 torch lumens (this can be done on lithium or GP2000, must have a driver!!!!!!!!)
5761 7.2Vbat.~854 torch lumens
1185 10.8Vbat.~772torch lumens 
1164 9.6Vbat.~756 torch lumens (1164 depends at which common voltage used, most likely needs a driver) 

You see, the easiest, brightest, longest running mod is the 5761. 12AA PowerX cells 6p2s will run it for an hour in a tri-bored 3D or Mag Charger.
64430 is touchy to build, hard to focus, hot runing costs $14 a bulb. The 1164 runs best on a driver, they insta-flash without. Drivers are around $75. (NTC may do it, soft start and voltage regulate for less than $2 and on these, 3each A123System cells ). 5761 is a projector bulb easy to locate most everywhere, $4.95. The WA1185 is considered a medical equipment bulb and if it weren't for Litho123 we could not get them

The 1185 was a wonderful mod and the first to get high lumens. More discoveries are finding other sources of bright bulbs. In some places M85 have been sold as the world's brightest flashlight. That is just not so. Caveot emptor: buyer beware


----------



## eyeeatingfish

What are these drivers you keep mentioning?


----------



## Northern Lights

eyeeatingfish said:


> What are these drivers you keep mentioning?


http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2070174&postcount=28
Drivers are electronic controls, circuits usually with chips that are transistors really, that are used to control the power and voltage to the bulb or LED. Different applications require different drivers. Usually for hotwires the driver delivers a soft start, it brings the voltage up slowly instead of a surge of power in a cold filament. The filament heats up and does not flash gently. The drivers also can at the same time regulate the voltage that is say you have a 10.8 pack and your driver is set to 9.6. Batteries are rated nominally, an average. They start higher than their votlage and continue to drop until you electric thing stops working. With a driver the votage is constant. In this example 9.6V until the batteries themselves drop below that then a good driver will shut out and the circuit now will directly drive from the depleted cell. Because a driver is an electronic regulator you can build modes into them too. Not too many people are offering much in drivers these days on CPF. There is a void for someone to fill.
Here is a safe lithium set up. Two AW C-cells, AW soft start C driver, a 2c-maglite, 5761, smooth reflector. 30 minutes run time on high mode. These are protected lithium. Other vendors do not have access to cells like this AW has a monopoly and an excellent product. http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=168596 Long sales thread but you will pick up a lot by going through it and this thread too. http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=157613 You will learn about consumer grade good lithium cells and a 5761 solution in a small light. I do believe for the size, 2C-cell, you will not find a brighter combination.


----------



## eyeeatingfish

Well i dont have a c maglite handy. Do i need a driver for a mag 85?


----------



## Northern Lights

eyeeatingfish said:


> Well i dont have a c maglite handy. Do i need a driver for a mag 85?


No you do not need a driver for a 1185 or 5761. Drivers are neat on all lamps, some require them in order to overdrive the lamp without blowing it but these two do just fine on the most set ups.


----------



## Wincet

What exactly are the PowerX AA cells (benefits, obtaining them) and why does the mag need to be tri bored if 4 AA cells can fit in the space of a D without modification? Could I just use normal AA nimh cells or are there better alternatives?

So the general consensus is that the 5761 is an overall better bulb to use in mag mods correct?


----------



## pete7226

So, just to clarify, I can run 2 of AW c-cells in my new FM11 with a 5761 with no worry of flashing the bulb?


----------



## Northern Lights

pete7226 said:


> So, just to clarify, I can run 2 of AW c-cells in my new FM11 with a 5761 with no worry of flashing the bulb?


No, maybe not, The batteries should not insta flash the bulb but they usually do not start on single click.
Some of the pcb's vary in tolerance. I had sets that would light up without soft start and then* they would insta flash the bulb*. Other sets of the AW battery would not even light up with out a million double clicks. 
Some people reported that their lights ran on one or two clicks and did not flash the bulb.
In theory, the solution should need a double click and will run without flashing the bulb. 
AWs drive fixed all these problems. The NTC I used has not been tried on the AW batteries. I had a bench set up and used an NTC that had a residual resistance more than the 0.06 ohms of the one I was recommeding and that worked great but reduce the lumens some, the one I recommeded will be just right if you are insta flashing.
So if you hook it up and find any problem, such as not lighting up or insta flashing then the AW driver will fix that and most likely the NTC.
The real problem is there is so much variance in resistance of the individual build, a wide variance in the bulb specs that shows in over drive and the AW battery PCBs come with wide tolerances. So you must experiment and find where you are. That is what I found reading the posts, My six batteries and three 5761 lights.


----------



## pete7226

Thanks, learning more everyday.


----------



## Northern Lights

Northern Lights said:


> No, maybe not, The batteries should not insta flash the bulb but they usually do not start on single click.
> Some of the pcb's vary in tolerance. I had sets that would light up without soft start and then* they would insta flash the bulb*. Other sets of the AW battery would not even light up with out a million double clicks.
> Some people reported that their lights ran on one or two clicks and did not flash the bulb.
> In theory, the solution should need a double click and will run without flashing the bulb.
> AWs drive fixed all these problems. The NTC I used has not been tried on the AW batteries. I had a bench set up and used an NTC that had a residual resistance more than the 0.06 ohms of the one I was recommeding and that worked great but reduce the lumens some, the one I recommeded will be just right if you are insta flashing.
> So if you hook it up and find any problem, such as not lighting up or insta flashing then the AW driver will fix that and most likely the NTC.
> The real problem is there is so much variance in resistance of the individual build, a wide variance in the bulb specs that shows in over drive and the AW battery PCBs come with wide tolerances. So you must experiment and find where you are. That is what I found reading the posts, My six batteries and three 5761 lights.


The NTC: SL12 1R010
http://www.ametherm.com/Data%20Sheets/SL12%201R010.pdf
works very well in a 2C on AW batteries, I just built one this morning and will put it in the b/s/t


----------



## eyeeatingfish

I just finished mine, and wowee. It was daylight in my room and the beam looked like what a 100-200 lumen would look like at night!
I cant wait till night time and i can go light up something fun.
Better yet, use it at work and amaze my beat partners.
I left it on for about a minute but it didnt smoke.
I held my hand in front of the lens and it got warm, but my hand didnt get as hot as i thought it would. These ones can start fires right?
I did a spring bypass mod. Im new to soldering so it was tricky but eventually i got it done. Hope it helps.
I had to go to the hardware store to get wire and when i tried to explain to the electricians what i was doing, they got lost. I thought electricians were supposed to know about resistances better. He didnt seem to realize that steel has high resistance. Oh well.


----------



## Northern Lights

eyeeatingfish said:


> I just finished mine, and wowee. It was daylight in my room and the beam looked like what a 100-200 lumen would look like at night!
> I cant wait till night time and i can go light up something fun.
> Better yet, use it at work and amaze my beat partners.
> I left it on for about a minute but it didnt smoke.
> I held my hand in front of the lens and it got warm, but my hand didnt get as hot as i thought it would. These ones can start fires right?
> I did a spring bypass mod. Im new to soldering so it was tricky but eventually i got it done. Hope it helps.
> I had to go to the hardware store to get wire and when i tried to explain to the electricians what i was doing, they got lost. I thought electricians were supposed to know about resistances better. He didnt seem to realize that steel has high resistance. Oh well.


 
Here is a great reference to resistance of metals;
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/151197


----------



## iapyx

There are these two options:

#1. FM's golden ceramic socket
#2. Kiu's high temp socket

What are the advantages/disadvantages of both?

Here is what I know:
Disadvantage:
FM's = more expensive
Kiu's = a lot more work

Advantage:
FM's = 5 sec work
Kiu's = ?? better heatsink ?? --> more constant high lumens output?
and it can hold other b-pins than WA's

So why would one use Kiu's high temp socket if it's so much more work?

I've got both, so I could do a test but I trust 'numbers' more than my eyes. 

thanks,
iapyx


----------



## robm

iapyx said:


> So why would one use Kiu's high temp socket if it's so much more work?



I think you already answered this mostly yourself:

The Kiu is much cheaper.
It allows use of other bulbs with different 'pin' widths.

And also the Kiu option removes the plastic tower (which could melt at high temperatures).
The Kiu socket should also be lower resistance, as the spring/tower/focus mechanism, and all its points of contacts are removed - this then leads to higher output.

Finally, the fact it is more work is all part of the 'modding' mindset - simple drop-ins are too easy


----------



## iapyx

robm said:


> I think you already answered this mostly yourself:
> 
> The Kiu is much cheaper.
> It allows use of other bulbs with different 'pin' widths.
> 
> And also the Kiu option removes the plastic tower (which could melt at high temperatures).
> The Kiu socket should also be lower resistance, as the spring/tower/focus mechanism, and all its points of contacts are removed - this then leads to higher output.
> 
> Finally, the fact it is more work is all part of the 'modding' mindset - simple drop-ins are too easy


 
Okay, one more thing: 
I've got both, so FM's and Kiu's (modded myself with a very detailed description by Donshock). 
Now the practical use: I happen to experience focusing problems using Kiu's socket. It's in my Mag85 and I can't use the cammed reflector. (this one: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/163470 )So to get a nice tight beam I have to loosen the head quite a lot. (you almost can see the rubber o-ring) Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong here?

thanks,
iapyx


----------



## Wincet

Where can you even get KIU socket anymore?


----------



## FILIPPO

iapyx said:


> Okay, one more thing:
> I've got both, so FM's and Kiu's (modded myself with a very detailed description by Donshock).
> Now the practical use: I happen to experience focusing problems using Kiu's socket. It's in my Mag85 and I can't use the cammed reflector. (this one: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/163470 )So to get a nice tight beam I have to loosen the head quite a lot. (you almost can see the rubber o-ring) Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong here?
> 
> thanks,
> iapyx


 
how have you modded the KIU socket?


----------



## iapyx

Wincet said:


> Where can you even get KIU socket anymore?


 
here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/171607


----------



## iapyx

FILIPPO said:


> how have you modded the KIU socket?


 
No, I haven't modded it.


----------



## jimjones3630

FM's elephant [email protected] came with plastic pedistal and bipin type socket, not the usual ones for sale now, perhaps the current bipins forerunner.

wa1185 bulb does not generated enough heat to melt the pedistal. current wisdom heat sink not needed for incan. less than 100w. 

kiu socket advantage is lower resistant than stock or moded stock holder.

Northern Lights makes excellant bipin sockets with extremly low resistance, using new technology. Luckily, got a couple. 

Another of the few from his crafty hands sold this week with one of his creations. MK I switch/Pr to Bi-Pin socket for a low resistance high temperature union of bulb and circuit. Also a MKII and MKIII model bipin socket I hear soon to be offered on CPF.

Shows how stock, modified stock, kiu, compare with resistance, output. Interesting chart at bottom of page.

http://homepage.mac.com/rouses/flash/hotlamps-short.htm


----------



## LuxLuthor

jimjones3630 said:


> wa1185 bulb does not generated enough heat to melt the pedistal. current wisdom heat sink not needed for incan. less than 100w.
> 
> kiu socket advantage is lower resistant than stock or moded stock holder.



For a long time I did not understand or use the KIU socket, and was relying on FiveMega's "turnkey" Maglite mods...which typically use all stock Maglite parts & his bipin holder to give a lot more resistance which "buffered" (lowered) the delivered bulb voltage and helped prevent a bulb from flashing. In reality, I was getting a lot less light in exchange for (my beginner) strategy of not flashing bulbs. 

The only real way to get right up close to the pre-bulb-flashing voltage is using a regulated voltage delivery tool like the AWR Hotdriver. Otherwise you are trying to limit the initial full-charged battery voltage peak from flashing the bulb, but will always have battery sagging voltage affecting your output (unless you have a way to regulate the voltage delivered to bulb).

I can confirm that you NEED to change to the KIU setup when you need better heat protection from melting the plastic bulb holder, and/or lower resistance to get more voltage to the bulb.

I first ran into this with a 43W Carley bulb that was overdriven on freshly charged (unregulated) 4s Li-Ions, and noticed it started to melt the plastic when using FiveMega's bipin holder....so the "rule of thumb" is a lot lower than the 100W bulb guideline, depending on overdriving heat.

You do not need the KIU (from a heat standpoint) for any of the WA bulbs, with the 1185 & 1164 in the 35-40W ranges when overdriven getting the hottest. You may want to use it to lower resistance, or to hold fatter bipin legs.



jimjones3630 said:


> Northern Lights makes excellant bipin sockets with extremly low resistance, using new technology. Luckily, got a couple.



Agreed.


----------



## iapyx

jimjones3630 said:


> Northern Lights makes excellant bipin sockets with extremly low resistance, using new technology. Luckily, got a couple.


 
Had a look at his threads.
quote northern lights: 5761 7.2Vbat. ~854 torch lumens (1331 bulb lumens)1185 10.8Vbat. ~772torch lumens (1194 bulb lumens)

Now I happen to live in Philipscountry, so a 5761 will be easily available here. I buy one or two soon and try it in my 2D. 

What would be a good alternative for a WA01185 bulb in a 3D?
Anyone?


----------



## FILIPPO

iapyx said:


> Had a look at his threads.
> quote northern lights: 5761 7.2Vbat. ~854 torch lumens (1331 bulb lumens)1185 10.8Vbat. ~772torch lumens (1194 bulb lumens)
> 
> Now I happen to live in Philipscountry, so a 5761 will be easily available here. I buy one or two soon and try it in my 2D.
> 
> What would be a good alternative for a WA01185 bulb in a 3D?
> Anyone?


 

in a 3D you can run some other WA bulbs at the same voltage...
but if you want a bulb that will easily available everywhere you might need to choose a 12V bi-pin bulb like osram or philips and drive it with 11/12 batts (You'll neen a bored mag!!!)


----------



## LuxLuthor

FILIPPO said:


> in a 3D you can run some other WA bulbs at the same voltage...
> but if you want a bulb that will easily available everywhere you might need to choose a 12V bi-pin bulb like osram or philips and drive it with 11/12 batts (You'll neen a bored mag!!!)



And a KIU.

TBH, there are so many possibilities when you get into a 2D, and even more with a 3D. It's hard to list them all. You can get into so many battery types and combinations. NiMH & Li-Ion of various sizes; parallel and/or series configurations.


----------



## FILIPPO

LuxLuthor said:


> And a KIU.
> 
> TBH, there are so many possibilities when you get into a 2D, and even more with a 3D. It's hard to list them all. You can get into so many battery types and combinations. NiMH & Li-Ion of various sizes; parallel and/or series configurations.


 

thanks for the precise!

I think that one may be:
osram 64610
FM's tri-bored mag 3D
3D>12AA batts adapter
KIU socket
1xDummy cell
11 batts like titanium1800 
metal reflector
glass lens

with this host and 12 batts (using or not using the dummy) you can run a lot of bulbs from 10W to 100W all 12V that are also available everywhere


----------



## LuxLuthor

I would use this one over that 64610 if you want a 50W.


----------



## Pyros

Okay, since this thread has expanded to include a discussion of the Mag85's successors:

Does anyone know if an 1164 will run on 8 AA Eneloops (in a 2D host) efficiently and without instaflashing? How about after doing standard resistance mods (e.g., switch, tailcap spring)? I've searched the archives but can't find a clear answer.

Yesterday I finished my first (very simple) mod, a 2D ROP. Apparently I'm hooked, because I'm already thinking about my upgrade path. (Ultimately I'd like to try my hand at a long-running 5761, but I'll wait until the ideal hardware exists -- namely, AW's D cells and D driver.)

And to think I've been spending all my money on LED lights for the past few years (mostly Arc, HDS, Fenix). This hotwire stuff is way more fun!

:devil:


----------



## Northern Lights

Pyros said:


> ...
> And to think I've been spending all my money on LED lights for the past few years (mostly Arc, HDS, Fenix). This hotwire stuff is way more fun!
> 
> :devil:


This is what happened to me! Yes, it is!


----------



## jimjones3630

yeah, it happened to me three. lots of fun, even when melting tailcap springs.

1164 is a 8 cell bulb. put a dummy in one of FM's excellant 9xAA series holders and ran well. will fit 8xAA in a 2D if bored out seem to recall.

8x1.4v=11.2v, would likely have to rest a freshly charged pak. AWR hot rater shows 9.6vbulb 4% from melting.


----------



## Spypro

A question here:
I'm building a Mag85: borofloat lens, smooth metal reflector, tailcap spring mod, AW soft start switch, 3 x AW 18650 and 1185 bulb.

What is the maximum voltage that bulb can take ?
I'm getting 12.6v from my 3 x 18650 togehter. Will it instantflash the bulb ?
I'm looking for the maximum brightness from the bulb... I don't care if I get a bulb life of 20-30 hours.

Also: How can I discharge my battery in order to drop their voltage ? A simple and good way to do it.

Thanks !


----------



## Northern Lights

Spypro said:


> A question here:
> I'm building a Mag85: borofloat lens, smooth metal reflector, tailcap spring mod, AW soft start switch, 3 x AW 18650 and 1185 bulb.
> 
> What is the maximum voltage that bulb can take ?
> I'm getting 12.6v from my 3 x 18650 togehter. Will it instantflash the bulb ?
> I'm looking for the maximum brightness from the bulb... I don't care if I get a bulb life of 20-30 hours.
> 
> Also: How can I discharge my battery in order to drop their voltage ? A simple and good way to do it.
> 
> Thanks !


That is a pretty standard setup, 10.8 Vbat, nominal. 12.6Vbat is the resting unloaded voltage as soon as you hook something live into that circuit it will drop fast to its nominal voltage. 772 torch lumens out the front. HOTRATER calculates the bulb life to just over 13 hours, you are kinda off there. Again, since you are a flashaholic like the rest of us if you want more lumens now you have an excuse to build another light!
You do not need to drop the voltage to run an 1185 on three of AW lithium batteries nor do you have to do a complete discharge like NiCd to keep them fit and running. If you wanted to lower the voltage instead of running partially charged batteries you should use an electronic component to achieve a lower voltage like a driver or simply a resistor of the correct rating.
AWR has a post buried in CPF somewhere, he ran an 1185 at 11.1 Vbulb. on one of his drivers and GP2000 NiMh batteries. 

You will be lucky to get as high as 10.7 Vbulb for very long with your setup. You are fine, enjoy it that is a good combo.


----------



## Spypro

Thanks for the answer !
I wonder how I can get something powerful as the Borealis. My setup looks pretty good so... how can I mod it to be brighter ?

...

I think I'm ready to build something like an USL


----------



## Daekar

Hrmm... well, I'm curious now...

I've seen in other threads the ROP-HI bulb lumens listed around 1100-1200...and it takes 7.2v, correct? What kind of bulb lumens are you going to get out of a 5761 at that voltage? I'm thinking the same thing as some other posters, when regulated D-cells and D-driver become available I'd like to make a long-running hotwire. Another thing is... can you run a 5761 off of 6xAA NiMH? It'd be nice to pick up some extra lumens over my ROP HI if the runtime is the same...


----------



## Northern Lights

Daekar said:


> Hrmm... well, I'm curious now...
> 
> I've seen in other threads the ROP-HI bulb lumens listed around 1100-1200...and it takes 7.2v, correct? What kind of bulb lumens are you going to get out of a 5761 at that voltage? I'm thinking the same thing as some other posters, when regulated D-cells and D-driver become available I'd like to make a long-running hotwire. Another thing is... can you run a 5761 off of 6xAA NiMH? It'd be nice to pick up some extra lumens over my ROP HI if the runtime is the same...


5761 Vbat=7.2 Vbulb=7.04 bulb lumens=1336 torch lumens=854

Use a drive with overhead voltage
Vbat=8.4 Vbulb=7.1 lumens=1351 torch lumens=878

I run a 5761 on a 6s2p pack of AA PowereX, 2700 for 5400 mAh., one hour run time and the voltage is high enough it instaflashes so I use an NTC soft start. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/170972
The Powerex is the only AA that is really over rated
http://www.rechargeable-battery-rev...showdown-review.html#AANiMHBatteryPerformance
browse around this site from this page, interesting but true info on AA
all others are weaker than they say.
Typically ROP mods are just a drop in bulb and some do not realize without reworking the switch and tail cap you loose monsterous amounts of lumens to resistance so they are not as bright as 65% 1100=715 torch lumens (formula for lumens to torch lumens)
If you can download a hotrater sheet it calculates for you and considers resitance of different mod types in the calculations. Once in posession, it is an excell sheet, you can add more bulb specs.


----------



## iapyx

Just got two 5761 bulbs today.

Put one in my 2D modded with a 6 > 2D 
which has a FM golden socket
a camless reflector (the reflector with cam is too tight to fit a 5761 bulb)

Now I face a problem that I also happen to have with my mag85:

I only have a wide beam. 
Even if I turn the bezel a few times (loosen) the beam doesn't get tight.
Am I using the wrong reflector?? I think it's an FM reflector, yes, pretty sure of that. 

What can I do to get a tight beam? anyone?

thanks,
iapyx


----------



## Northern Lights

iapyx said:


> Just got two 5761 bulbs today.
> 
> Put one in my 2D modded with a 6 > 2D
> which has a FM golden socket
> a camless reflector (the reflector with cam is too tight to fit a 5761 bulb)
> 
> Now I face a problem that I also happen to have with my mag85:
> 
> I only have a wide beam.
> Even if I turn the bezel a few times (loosen) the beam doesn't get tight.
> Am I using the wrong reflector?? I think it's an FM reflector, yes, pretty sure of that.
> 
> What can I do to get a tight beam? anyone?
> 
> thanks,
> iapyx


FM has made several models of cammed reflectors. Older single function relfectors are open as wide as the pedestal. Other reflectors are open only enough for WA bulb diameters. Mike the bulb, in general they are 1cm, that is 10mm, in diameter at the point the envelope squishes out where the envelope is crimped, it has a slight ear. Now get a fine grain Dremel grinding ball made of stone. Dress the ball with a dressing stone to the correct diameter. I have found diamond ball grinding bits at 9.5 mm. 
Put the reflector face down and slowly enlarge the hole from the back side so you do not chip the reflective material as you go through. Drill press is nice for this job but I have done most by hand. Make sure the final thrust through is slow and straight aligment of the bit. Use compressed air to blow the reflector clean. Never touch a reflector. That is a story in itself worth searching on CPF. Other wise get a different reflector. Some reflectors, especially those for Pelican 3845 (ROP) fit without enlarging. Somewhere in my posts of 5761 I have covered the problem of the bulb fit to reflectors if you want to research it.

I take it you are using the standard switch with a pr to bi in adapter. If you are using a KIU, it will not cam but you can adjust the height with spacers on the socket mount but you will still need the bulb to freely go through the reflector.
If you use the original switch you need to modify it to reduce the resistance otherwise you likely loose upto 200 lumens of light due to voltage drop at the bulb for any hot wire mod. Just putting a pr to bipin adapter in a mag switch will not give you the advantage of the hot wires more lumens but if you fix the internal switch resistance just dropping the pr to bipin socket in does ok. Going one step further and hard wiring the Pr to biPIn socket into the switch also reduces some resistance.


----------



## Icebreak

But isn't there more than a small risk with a full resistance fix? Seems I've read quite a bit of history of 5761 lamps instaflashing in low resistance torches resulting in a conclusion that there was then a need for a regulation circuitry fix to fix the resistance fix.


----------



## Northern Lights

Icebreak said:


> But isn't there more than a small risk with a full resistance fix? Seems I've read quite a bit of history of 5761 lamps instaflashing in low resistance torches resulting in a conclusion that there was then a need for a regulation circuitry fix to fix the resistance fix.


You missed other posts too. No need for regulation with a 5761 with a variety of different power packs, some of these require soft start. Other power packs like 18650s, 2600mAh unprotected BatterySpace cells or for sure A123 which discharge the flattest discharge curve usually do not need soft start or regulation and do fine on direct drive. Why bother with a hot wire if you give up lumens to resistance? 
Yes, you need a soft start with PowereX AAs in 6s2p. Most other AAs will not make the grade or just 6s PowereX AA will probably not flash the 5761. Looks like you are using NiMh AAs? "Put one in my 2D modded with a 6 > 2D " If you plan to use Lithium the AW C cell, A123, Saphion or barely the BatterySpace 1865 unprotected 2600 mAh cells can be used. The 5761 draws 5.5 amps in a hot wire and the other lithium cells cannot handle the load, there may be another but we have not found it. As far as AA cells go only one exceeds the factory spec the others fall below their own specs:
http://www.rechargeable-battery-rev...showdown-review.html#AANiMHBatteryPerformance
Three ways to fix it. Soft start with a driver or NTC or constant resistance that eats lumens. Search key word: *5761*
Please look at posts under key word: *NTC* 
Then look again under: *NTC 5761*
Isolate the ground and ground the batteries through the correct NTC in the tail cap and you have the appropriate resistance that goes away after start up. Last I checked, The proper NTC costs $0.71, seventy-one cents through newark.com.
http://www.newark.com/jsp/Passives/...playProduct.jsp?sku=72J6730&_requestid=287338
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172284
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/170972
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173093&highlight=ntc
Search: NTC,There are 13 threads alone where I explain something or mention the use of NTC. It will fix up your set up, mag85s, 1164, 64430 and many more that just need a soft start and no regulation.


----------



## Icebreak

Trying to follow the logic and the "most others won't make the grade" consideration referencing AA cells. Let's narrow it to a set up like iapyx's 6 > 2D which is likely a 6 series AA pyramid configuration. If those particular AAs do make the grade, in other words, be able to handle the 5761 with optimal performance; won't they need a soft start or regulation after a full resistance fix is done? 

I wonder about the 5761 in a full resistance fix platform against 6 series AA with the venerable CBP 1650, Titanium 1800 power max or the new 30 amp Elite 1700 cells. Isn't it likely that they would require a soft start or voltage regulation? The concern I have about great performing, high discharge cells in this configuration is that start up voltage may be above 8.4 volts and more importantly the current spike to the cold filament might be 7+ amps.


----------



## Northern Lights

Icebreak said:


> Trying to follow the logic and the "most others won't make the grade" consideration referencing AA cells. Let's narrow it to a set up like iapyx's 6 > 2D which is likely a 6 series AA pyramid configuration. If those particular AAs do make the grade, in other words, be able to handle the 5761 with optimal performance; won't they need a soft start or regulation after a full resistance fix is done?
> 
> I wonder about the 5761 in a full resistance fix platform against 6 series AA with the venerable CBP 1650, Titanium 1800 power max or the new 30 amp Elite 1700 cells. Isn't it likely that they would require a soft start or voltage regulation? The concern I have about great performing, high discharge cells in this configuration is that start up voltage may be above 8.4 volts and more importantly the current spike to the cold filament might be 7+ amps.


I agree and the NTC will take care of that. You named configurations and high perrormance cells here that have been used again and again at CPF and they could flash. The 5761 is so versitle that it has not seen all the combination that could power it. 
My main point is now having found a workable 70 cent fix that Yellow suggested a long while back there is no need to give up lumens with fixed resistance when an NTC will cut out and let you use the full potential. Frosting the bulb or a VLOP, LOP reflector gives a great useable beam, even side spill merging into a very large smooth hot spot. BobG has run 5761 at 7.1 volts at the bulb with a hot driver. So we have a good track record and on direct drives or non regulated set ups of Vbat 7.2 nominal the bulb runs very well after start up, get around some insta flash, and it is rated 765 lumens at 6 volts so it is very bright even as voltage drops with discharge of the pack. That brings up an old post of mine. Folks were working to put WA1111 into 6V applications to get 500 lumens and this bulb was sitting there ready to go at OEM 765 lumens, 6V. I said, duh.


----------



## iapyx

Northern Lights said:


> FM has made several models of cammed reflectors. Older single function relfectors are open as wide as the pedestal. Other reflectors are open only enough for WA bulb diameters. Mike the bulb, in general they are 1cm, that is 10mm, in diameter at the point the envelope squishes out where the envelope is crimped, it has a slight ear. Now get a fine grain Dremel grinding ball made of stone. Dress the ball with a dressing stone to the correct diameter. I have found diamond ball grinding bits at 9.5 mm.
> Put the reflector face down and slowly enlarge the hole from the back side so you do not chip the reflective material as you go through. Drill press is nice for this job but I have done most by hand. Make sure the final thrust through is slow and straight aligment of the bit. Use compressed air to blow the reflector clean. Never touch a reflector. That is a story in itself worth searching on CPF. Other wise get a different reflector. Some reflectors, especially those for Pelican 3845 (ROP) fit without enlarging. Somewhere in my posts of 5761 I have covered the problem of the bulb fit to reflectors if you want to research it.
> 
> I take it you are using the standard switch with a pr to bi in adapter. If you are using a KIU, it will not cam but you can adjust the height with spacers on the socket mount but you will still need the bulb to freely go through the reflector.
> If you use the original switch you need to modify it to reduce the resistance otherwise you likely loose upto 200 lumens of light due to voltage drop at the bulb for any hot wire mod. Just putting a pr to bipin adapter in a mag switch will not give you the advantage of the hot wires more lumens but if you fix the internal switch resistance just dropping the pr to bipin socket in does ok. Going one step further and hard wiring the Pr to biPIn socket into the switch also reduces some resistance.


 
yes NL, I am using the standard switch with an FM golden bi-pin socket.
I understand it would be wise to switch to a Kiu socket since that has less resistance. 

So a Kiu socket will not work in combination with a cam reflector. Only with a camless reflector. 

The problem with the 5761 bulb is that it should be placed deeper into the bezel/reflector to get a tight beam. I don´t think that is possible. 
No, I´ve got the 2D here in my hands now. It´s not possible to press the 5761 bulb any deeper into FM´s golden socket. The glass of the bulb prevents it from being pushed any deeper. Only after turning the bezel a lot of times ccw (counter clock wise) it shows a tight beam, but the bezel is almost loosened. 

Maybe the 5761 in combination with an FM golden socket doesn´t work? And should I put a Kiu socket in it.

btw it´s a 6x14500 set up,
iapyx


----------



## Northern Lights

iapyx said:


> yes NL, I am using the standard switch with an FM golden bi-pin socket.
> I understand it would be wise to switch to a Kiu socket since that has less resistance.
> 
> So a Kiu socket will not work in combination with a cam reflector. Only with a camless reflector.
> 
> The problem with the 5761 bulb is that it should be placed deeper into the bezel/reflector to get a tight beam. I don´t think that is possible.
> No, I´ve got the 2D here in my hands now. It´s not possible to press the 5761 bulb any deeper into FM´s golden socket. The glass of the bulb prevents it from being pushed any deeper. Only after turning the bezel a lot of times ccw (counter clock wise) it shows a tight beam, but the bezel is almost loosened.
> 
> Maybe the 5761 in combination with an FM golden socket doesn´t work? And should I put a Kiu socket in it.
> 
> btw it´s a 6x14500 set up,
> iapyx


I maybe able to help you more now I understand your set up. The FM socket is very good and has low resistance. KIU and some other bipin to PR sockets that uses an actual connector for the pin may have lower resistance. FM sockets use a straight open hole and sometimes you must tweek the pin slightly to get a tight connection. That being said you do the resistance fixes for the tail cap and switch.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=130965
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=99710
Read the entire strings because some folks add more inventive ideas to do the job easier further in the strings. E.g. ground the mag socket slug by drilling a small hole in it and soldering the ground braid into it and then notch the plastic at the end of the channel to allow the slug to go down.
"The problem with the 5761 bulb is that it should be placed deeper into the bezel/reflector to get a tight beam. I don´t think that is possible."
I assume you did not lower the slug in the pedestal because it is very easy to get the 5761 too low with most all reflectors.
*Now to address your problem.* With either the kiu or original mag switch and pr to biPin adapter the 5761 will go low enough for either Carley, Litho123 and FM reflectors. I have built them and know this first hand. My mag heads focus 2 to 4 turns up from bottom. I set this on purpose, I have experimented with focusing the light with the the head all the way down but that does not leave you adjustment for different lots of bulbs which can be off by a milimeter in height. *You have to lower the slug in the socket! *You can actually lower it too far. One way published by a member is to cut an off set channel for the cam and slip it to the side further down the channel. I have cut a forked piece of sheet metal and put it into the channel and held the cam lower against the spring and secured that with high temperature epoxy and then covered the pedestal with thick shrink tubing. This by far is the fastest way to do it.
My favorite way is to solder a Positive insulated braided lead to the pr to bipin socket postive connection and a braided ground to the bottom of the socket and route those out the bottom of the switch by cutting a hole. I remove the spring; I then can set the socket to a determined height with a set screw and washer that replaces the cam screw. With this set up you actually can lower the bulb too low. This will also work, removing the spring, soldering a positive lead to the bottom of the spring cap and to the switch and a ground to the outside edge of the slug and this allows you to remove the bipin socket but I still use the stop screw to hold the the socket in a lowered position.
Please tell me you did not lower the slug in the pedestal and it was at top when you tried to focus in. If you did lower the slug all the way down I would ask for a photo because the problem would be perplexing and unique. 
Please look though the threads on the key word search 5761. I know most of this is covered in those threads. It will help you. Once you get over the initial frustration you will love the light.
Here is a picture of one of my builds with a PR to bi pin socket, I think it is my socket but it had the FM socket in it, and a FM reflector. The slug was held down with a small metal fork placed in the channel and against the cam. Spring was left in place.
BTW: 6x14500 set up, AWs? 750mAh each, set up to 2250mAh, 2.25 and the bulb draws 5.5 A so the 2C (capacity) rule is ok, just barely:twothumbs (2x 2.25 = 5.5)


----------



## iapyx

Northern Lights said:


> Please tell me you did not lower the slug in the pedestal and it was at top when you tried to focus in.


 
No, I am not going to tell you that I did that. 
The only modifications I did (with the 2D) were:
- putting in a golden ceramic socket by FM
- FM´s MOP reflector with cam
- boro lens
- 5761 bulb 

Just instaflashed one 5761 cause I accidentally put it in my mag85 (3D) and I just shouldn´t have done that. :mecry:




Northern Lights said:


> BTW: 6x14500 set up, AWs? 750mAh each, set up to 2250mAh, 2.25 and the bulb draws 5.5 A so the 2C (capacity) rule is ok, just barely:twothumbs (2x 2.25 = 5.5)


 
Yes, AW´s although I prefer 2xC li-ions or rather 2xD li-ions (AW´s future?), but well, that´s the bad part of this forum: it eats your wallet. 

Thanks for your post Northern Lights, I will print it today and translate some of it. I don´t know yet all the therms and words so I do not yet understand all of it, but that will come in time. And I am sure that once I get over the frustration I will be very happy with the new light. 

edit:
Same problem with my mag85 set up (although it has a narrow beam):
* 3D host
* 3xWA li-ion C-cells in a hard pvc water hose (to prevent side to side rattle) + aluminium extension to reach the tail spring.
* 1185 bulb
* kiu socket
* camless reflector (either litho's or FM's)
* boro lens



thanks!
iapyx


----------



## shuter

Why not Sanyo Eneloops? The self discharge problem present in NiMH batteries has now been nearly eliminated. SilverFox on this forum has done some extensive testing and they seem to function pretty much as advertised. What I alwys hated about NiMH batteries is that if they sat for a few months, like in an emergengy light, they would be seriously depleted when you needed them. Not so with the eneloops! Great product. I now use them in everything that takes AA or AAA batteries.


----------



## iapyx

shuter said:


> Why not Sanyo Eneloops? The self discharge problem present in NiMH batteries has now been nearly eliminated. SilverFox on this forum has done some extensive testing and they seem to function pretty much as advertised. What I alwys hated about NiMH batteries is that if they sat for a few months, like in an emergengy light, they would be seriously depleted when you needed them. Not so with the eneloops! Great product. I now use them in everything that takes AA or AAA batteries.


 

what's the capacity of the AA eneloops? 
I read somewhere 2000 mah --> that's not too much.
I guess 1,2 Volts --> not suitable for my setup

Maybe suitable in combination with one of FM's adaptors? But still only 2000 mah....


----------



## shuter

iapyx 

Yes, the capacity of AA eneloops is a modest 2000 mah or thereabouts but after sitting for 6 months I believe the capacity will still be something like 1700 mah. Contrast that with a NiMH AA with a 2700 mah capacity. After sitting for 6 months its capacity will likely be well under 1000 mah. The eneloops clearly are not the most potent AA's out there but for me their ability to hold a charge while waiting to be used is the most important factor. An emergengy light is of no use if the batteries are dead.


----------



## jugg2

If you are using your light, and recharging it every week, then eneloops are probably not the bestt option, but I like them, because you can always have spare cells ready.


----------



## LuxLuthor

It's kind of fun to read my posts from over 2 years ago, and see how much I learned since then. I started counting all my lights, mostly incandescents, and lost count after 100. Maybe I should sell some. LOL!


----------



## gchronis

Is the Mag85 still around? Is it still considered a good incan light or is there a successor. I see all threads referring to this light are pretty old. In the sell/trade section, I see that fivemega sells a "M*g Charger", but not M*g85. Is the Charger better? I wanted to buy a ready made one or if it's still considered a good light and if nobody makes it any longer, I'd start building one. I'm just a bit worried about instaflashing and all the resistance consideration so as to avoid instaflashing.

I have several LED's and an HID, but I'm new to Incans. I'm looking to get some experience with those lights, but under $200 and the Mag85 looked like the best contender.

Thanks!


----------



## cernobila

gchronis said:


> Is the Mag85 still around? Is it still considered a good incan light or is there a successor. I see all threads referring to this light are pretty old. In the sell/trade section, I see that fivemega sells a "M*g Charger", but not M*g85. Is the Charger better? I wanted to buy a ready made one or if it's still considered a good light and if nobody makes it any longer, I'd start building one. I'm just a bit worried about instaflashing and all the resistance consideration so as to avoid instaflashing.
> 
> I have several LED's and an HID, but I'm new to Incans. I'm looking to get some experience with those lights, but under $200 and the Mag85 looked like the best contender.
> 
> Thanks!



I recently put together a 1185 light and now it is one of the brightest lights I have. If you are starting from scratch a good option is mainly all "fivemega" parts; 3xC FM body with switch, FM G4 D26 reflector, a "C" bezel/head, WA1185 bulb or two and a bunch of AW C Li-Ion cells. (when they are available again) In my case this works like a treat.

Check out some beamshots for comparison; https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221970


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## Alan B

gchronis said:


> Is the Mag85 still around? Is it still considered a good incan light or is there a successor. I see all threads referring to this light are pretty old. ...
> 
> Thanks!



The [email protected] is still quite popular, and there are a number of other bulbs that people use for bright incan lights, such as the ROP (a Pelican 6V bulb), and many others. Here is a good link to the bulb info which is the heart of an incan:

Destructive Bulb Tests


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## gchronis

cernobila said:


> I recently put together a 1185 light and now it is one of the brightest lights I have. If you are starting from scratch a good option is mainly all "fivemega" parts; 3xC FM body with switch, FM G4 D26 reflector, a "C" bezel/head, WA1185 bulb or two and a bunch of AW C Li-Ion cells. (when they are available again) In my case this works like a treat.
> 
> Check out some beamshots for comparison; https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221970



Good info, thanks. Yes, I'm starting from scratch. I was under the impression that I could use a battery mounting device from fivemega that accepts 9 NiMH. I have a bunch of Imedion's and Powerex batteries lying around here that I could use.

EDIT: And yes, your post is what triggered my interest and started looking around at how to make one of these things.


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## Alan B

gchronis said:


> Good info, thanks. Yes, I'm starting from scratch. I was under the impression that I could use a battery mounting device from fivemega that accepts 9 NiMH. I have a bunch of Imedion's and Powerex batteries lying around here that I could use.
> 
> EDIT: And yes, your post is what triggered my interest and started looking around at how to make one of these things.



FM 9aa carrier is good for [email protected] Also Kiu socket, FM reflector and bulb. Litho has reflectors and bulbs also. 

FM has pr bipin socket adapters, Kiu has a lower resistance bipin socket setup.

You might want to get one dummy aa cell (FM has them), so you can operate with 8xaa cells which is easier on the bulb (rated voltage). Using 9xaa overdrives the bulb which is fun and impressive but hard on bulbs and freshly charged batteries can 

We are working on some regulators that solve the


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## gchronis

Dummy cell! Right! I was looking at the bulb test thread and it seems like the 1185 wouldn't do that well with 9 AA NiMH. I'd love to see your regulators as well. I guess I'll get started purchasing some parts here...


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I don't use the beejabbers out of my mag85 and I don't have any mods to cut resistance.

I have not yet  my first bulb. And I do run 9AA.


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## gchronis

cernobila said:


> If you are starting from scratch a good option is mainly all "fivemega" parts



Ok, how do I get these parts? I did a search on the marketplace for all threads posted by fivemega and there is no current thread that lists all of these parts. Most of them are from 2007. Do you PM this guy directly and ask for these things or do I keep looking? I'd like to get this thing going.

Thanks for any help.


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## lctorana

gchronis said:


> ...it seems like the 1185 wouldn't do that well with 9 AA NiMH...


Then my Mag85 "doesn't do well". I'll be careful not to tell it.


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## Alan B

FiveMega's sales threads on on here, not MP. 

The 9AA will work, but it is really pushing the bulb. Sometimes with fresh charged NiMH it will . So I used 8xAA most of the time, until I got the regulator working. Now I use 9xAA all the time, but the regulator takes care of that. With a dummy cell you can try it both ways.


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## Alan B

Here are two battery holder threads, FM and mdocod:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/195976
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/182370


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## gchronis

lctorana said:


> Then my Mag85 "doesn't do well". I'll be careful not to tell it.



I guess I should have been more specific:

According to this from this thread the 1185 would have an expected life time of about 5 hours. 9 fresh NiMH off the charger would be at least 11.5 Volts, correct? With 8 fresh NiMH, the expected life would be at least double, correct?

Obviously, I have no experience with this; I am just interested in finding more information about it, so I can build one. I trust the experience of the members who already have one, though. I assume that your comment means that you have had no problems with yours, so I will take that into consideration. An 1185 bulb cannot possibly be that expensive either, so I guess I could try it out.


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## gchronis

Alan: Thanks for the info! I'll look into your regulator thread. I skimmed through it to see if I can purchase one from you (didn't find anything after a first glance). A regulator definitely makes a lot of sense to me. I'll go make a list of parts and prices now...


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## Alan B

gchronis said:


> I guess I should have been more specific:
> 
> According to this from this thread the 1185 would have an expected life time of about 5 hours. 9 fresh NiMH off the charger would be at least 11.5 Volts, correct? With 8 fresh NiMH, the expected life would be at least double, correct?
> 
> Obviously, I have no experience with this; I am just interested in finding more information about it, so I can build one. I trust the experience of the members who already have one, though. I assume that your comment means that you have had no problems with yours, so I will take that into consideration. An 1185 bulb cannot possibly be that expensive either, so I guess I could try it out.





gchronis said:


> Alan: Thanks for the info! I'll look into your regulator thread. I skimmed through it to see if I can purchase one from you (didn't find anything after a first glance). A regulator definitely makes a lot of sense to me. I'll go make a list of parts and prices now...



The voltage that the bulb sees is the *loaded* voltage of the battery. This may be 1.4 volts per cell very briefly, but it settles to 1.2 or even less under these high current loads. So 9xAA NiMH works well depending on the resistance of the light, the resistance of the particular cells, and the charge state. Lots of folks have reported  under some circumstances, like hot off the charger, low resistance cells, and resistance mods in the light. But it does vary, and some cells have higher resistance that protects the bulb.

Running the 1185 with 8 NiMH should produce about the rated bulb life, since the 8*1.2 is 9.6 volts, the rated voltage, and the life is about 50 hours. Using 10.8 for 9 cells puts it about 12 hours as I recall.

I am using Eneloops and similar, they have pretty low internal resistance and have low self discharge. They seem to be doing extremely well.

The regulator is in work, none are for sale yet. I have a working prototype, we are working on metalwork right now. No real precise timetable yet, a couple of months or so is likely. We do have an interest list getting close to 50 units.

I have built two [email protected]'s, one with a FM PR bulb adapter, and one with a Kiu base. I used a dummy cell and they both work well. I suspect they'd be fine with 9xEneloops (rested), but I haven't done that. No sense in risking bulbs for the small improvement, unless you want to. Bulbs are about six dollars each. The difference between 8 and 9 cells is about 50% more lumens, but to the eye this is only a moderate increase. It also gets whiter and the beam looks very nice with the FM MOP reflector that I have. The latest is the new one with a small hole for WA bulbs, and closely fits the [email protected] head to conduct heat better (not an issue for the 1185 though).

The regulator allows running the voltage lower as well, with a variable user interface. I use 2.0 volts at the bottom end, which makes a few lumens of orange light, suitable for nighttime adjusted eyes. It ramps up from there to 1200 bulb lumens. Quite a range.

The PR adapter is a very easy build. The Kiu base is a bit more work but lower resistance and will fit more bulb types.


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## gchronis

Ok, that's all very exciting. For $6 I'm willing to play with 9 Volts. I will use Imedions, since I have a bunch of them lying around. I'll go with the FM parts to begin with. I'll measure volts before I fire it up to make sure I'm at least within range of not poofing the bulb. I'm not so worried about the $6 but the mess that it's going to create on the reflector. Oh, well.

Thanks everyone for your responses. You just made me go spend more money. Great!


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## Alan B

gchronis said:


> Ok, that's all very exciting. For $6 I'm willing to play with 9 Volts. I will use Imedions, since I have a bunch of them lying around. I'll go with the FM parts to begin with. I'll measure volts before I fire it up to make sure I'm at least within range of not poofing the bulb. I'm not so worried about the $6 but the mess that it's going to create on the reflector. Oh, well.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your responses. You just made me go spend more money. Great!



Start with no reflector, and use a lens for safety - bulbs can pop with a lot of force. It could even be a stock [email protected] lens, just don't run it too long that way. Once you see that it does not  you can put your good reflector and lens in.


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## cernobila

So, am I missing something here........all this talk about AA cells of one type or another, does that mean that using three C size Li-Ions is not a good idea? I have quite easily assembled 1185 based light on these cells without any complications or the need for cell holders, dummy cells or regulators etc. Even in the FM D26 G4 reflector, this light is one of my brightest that I have.....Am I doing something wrong?....


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## gchronis

i just wanted to use AA's cause I have them already. I have no clue about performance in relation to C size.


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## william lafferty

cernobila said:


> So, am I missing something here........all this talk about AA cells of one type or another, does that mean that using three C size Li-Ions is not a good idea? I have quite easily assembled 1185 based light on these cells without any complications or the need for cell holders, dummy cells or regulators etc. Even in the FM D26 G4 reflector, this light is one of my brightest that I have.....Am I doing something wrong?....



I dont know what others think, but I like the 3 x C format for the 1185. At 12v you are delivering 3.5A to the bulb. MaH of the AW li ion C cell is 3300, so 3.3 divided by 3.5 A = .94 hour runtime, or 56 minutes. This configuration does not demand too much from the AW Cell and it gives long runtime. Pretty good combination. Main problem right now is that you cant buy AW C cells. 

I think you get about 30 min runtime from 3 x 17670 and a little more than that from 3 x 18650. On the other hand, an advantage to the 3 x 17670 or 18650 configuration is that it is a little shorter than the 3 x C cells, which is important for some uses. There may also be some weight differences.


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## gchronis

Ok, here is my quick list of stuff I need to get:

3D Maglite
FM Cammed MOP Aluminum reflector
Boro lens from FM
9AA to 3D adaptor from FM
Bi-pin WA1185 from FM
FM G4 bi-pin socket

I have two questions:
1. Do I need anything else?
2. What's MOP? Some kind of Orange Peel? Is it more throw or more flood?

I'll also buy a battery charger to charge up the whole pack and occasionally pop the batts out to charge them individually for maintenance. I'll look at the battery forum for suggestions on pack chargers.


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## gchronis

Wait, what's that "head" deal? Do I need a "head"?

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/165465
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174247


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## Alan B

cernobila said:


> So, am I missing something here........all this talk about AA cells of one type or another, does that mean that using three C size Li-Ions is not a good idea? I have quite easily assembled 1185 based light on these cells without any complications or the need for cell holders, dummy cells or regulators etc. Even in the FM D26 G4 reflector, this light is one of my brightest that I have.....Am I doing something wrong?....



3*C protected Li-Ion is a great choice. 9*AA at 10.8V is quite similar to 3*Li-Ion at about 11.1V.


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## Alan B

gchronis said:


> Wait, what's that "head" deal? Do I need a "head"?
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/165465
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174247



Don't need it. Big heads are for more throw, or really hot bulbs beyond the 1185.


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## cernobila

Another option may be a 3xD Li-Ion in a suitable Maglite....the D's should still be available from Kai although I did not check. Long run time and large reflector would make this a very nice serious light.


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## Alan B

cernobila said:


> Another option may be a 3xD Li-Ion in a suitable Maglite....the D's should still be available from Kai although I did not check. Long run time and large reflector would make this a very nice serious light.



There are conflicting reports on the KD protected D cells. I have not tried them. I do have some unprotected KD D cells, but those should only be used with a protection circuit. My regulator has protection in it. They are a bit longer than standard, so I need to get a shorter/weaker spring before trying them more than briefly.


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## cernobila

Alan B said:


> There are conflicting reports on the KD protected D cells. I have not tried them. I do have some unprotected KD D cells, but those should only be used with a protection circuit. My regulator has protection in it. They are a bit longer than standard, so I need to get a shorter/weaker spring before trying them more than briefly.



Yes this is the one negative with the D's you need a soft start of some kind.....I have the AW soft start/three level switch in my 2xD Mag and this is very useful as max light is not required very often.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

As far as the MOP question yes with a MOP absolute throw will be lost to a degree.

But many of us (or at least ME) think beam quality takes the cake over anything else and a MOP with the bulb well centered in it will make a NICE beam!

There is so much light compared to many other lights that it will still put a lot of light out there a ways!


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## gchronis

Ok, this all looks good. The only incan lamp I have is the P60 that came with my C2 (which now has an M60 drop in). Hopefully, the 1185 will be a lot brighter. Any idea how it would compare to say an MC-E?

The components I described above will cost me $142.50, so it's a significant investment. From what I've read around here it will be around 600 lumens out front, so I think the price/lumens ratio is fairly low (a good thing). Everyone else agree?


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## Alan B

gchronis said:


> Ok, this all looks good. The only incan lamp I have is the P60 that came with my C2 (which now has an M60 drop in). Hopefully, the 1185 will be a lot brighter. Any idea how it would compare to say an MC-E?
> 
> The components I described above will cost me $142.50, so it's a significant investment. From what I've read around here it will be around 600 lumens out front, so I think the price/lumens ratio is fairly low (a good thing). Everyone else agree?



The 1185 is about 800 bulb lumens at 9.6V and 1200 bulb lumens at 10.8V. Approximately 65% of those lumens make it out the front. A 50% increase in lumen output is noticeable. A 100% increase is significant.

The well driven P7 is about 800 bulb lumens, about 85% makes it out the front. The MC-E is similar.

The small WA1185 bulb can be focussed into a pretty decent throw pattern, the LED is more flood, and has a brighter spill pattern. 

Since the bulb radiates in all directions, the light from the reflector forms the major part of the output. Since the LED radiates in less than 180 degrees and mostly forward, the majority of the light coming out has not been reflected, and this output is actually spill. A small portion of the LED output strikes the reflector and becomes the central beam. So the energy from the WA bulb is more controlled by the reflector.

The difference in reflection also explains the bulb/output efficiency difference. Most bulb light is reflected, and some goes in a poor direction (toward the socket) and is lost. LED output mostly misses the reflector and is spared the losses there.

The color and spectrum of the sources are quite different. In some applications one or the other seem to work better, for some people.

Other bulbs are available at higher output. Some are good at impressing people or starting paper on fire, but the 1185 is a little more moderate and useful.


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## Drywolf

I'm going to try my first two incands:

2 x Li-ion AW C cell and WA1111
3 x Li-ion AW C cell/IMR16340 and WA1185

Here are my questions:
1. Should the cells be fully charged to 4.2v; if not what voltage?
1a. 2 x Li-ion AW C cell and WA1111?
1b. 3 x Li-ion AW C cell/IMR16340 and WA1185?

2. Can the cells be used immediately after charging or do they need to settlle first.

Thank you,
Frank


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## gchronis

Wow, Alan. I feel I should be paying for these answers. Right on the money! Ok, I'll go purchase the parts and get started with this. We'll see how it plays out.

Thanks!!!


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## gswitter

Drywolf said:


> I'm going to try my first two incands:
> 
> 2 x Li-ion AW C cell and WA1111
> 3 x Li-ion AW C cell/IMR16340 and WA1185
> 
> Here are my questions:
> 1. Should the cells be fully charged to 4.2v; if not what voltage?
> 1a. 2 x Li-ion AW C cell and WA1111?
> 1b. 3 x Li-ion AW C cell/IMR16340 and WA1185?


Depends on the amount of resistance in the host.

I've built/used a WA1111 in a 2C Mag w/2x AW "C"s, a WA1185 in a 3C Mag w/3x AW "C"s (with the stock switch and later with an AW soft start switch) and a WA1185 in a fivemega Prince w/3x AW IMR16340. Fully-charged cells have never caused a problem with any of them.



> 2. Can the cells be used immediately after charging or do they need to settlle first.


I've never noticed much of a difference with Li-ions.


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## Mattiasdd

hello, i'm thinking about modding my 3D, i've already seen a lot of useful information. But I was wondering if you change the lens and the reflector cause of the heat, than what about the O-ring in the head? Doesnt it melt?


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## tebore

Mattiasdd said:


> hello, i'm thinking about modding my 3D, i've already seen a lot of useful information. But I was wondering if you change the lens and the reflector cause of the heat, than what about the O-ring in the head? Doesnt it melt?



The heat will damage it overtime. Think of it this way if it got hot enough to melt an O-ring you wouldn't be able to hold it anymore or if you did your skin would start to stick.


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## Patriot

Drywolf said:


> I'm going to try my first two incands:
> 
> 2 x Li-ion AW C cell and WA1111
> 3 x Li-ion AW C cell/IMR16340 and WA1185
> 
> Here are my questions:
> 1. Should the cells be fully charged to 4.2v; if not what voltage?
> 1a. 2 x Li-ion AW C cell and WA1111?
> 1b. 3 x Li-ion AW C cell/IMR16340 and WA1185?
> 
> 2. Can the cells be used immediately after charging or do they need to settlle first.
> 
> Thank you,
> Frank




I've never had any insta-flash issues with 2C and WA1111. 

The 3C and the 1185 requires a bit more care in most cases. Depending on the resistance of your host you may or may not have problems. If I charge my cells to 4.1V or even 4.15V I don't seem to have any issues. If I charge right up to 4.2V it will often insta-flash in both mag bodies. You'll just have to see what voltage you can get away with concerning your particular light.


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## USM0083

Patriot36 said:


> I've never had any insta-flash issues with 2C and WA1111.
> 
> The 3C and the 1185 requires a bit more care in most cases. Depending on the resistance of your host you may or may not have problems. If I charge my cells to 4.1V or even 4.15V I don't seem to have any issues. If I charge right up to 4.2V it will often insta-flash in both mag bodies. You'll just have to see what voltage you can get away with concerning your particular light.



Would a soft start switch make a difference?


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## Alan B

USM0083 said:


> Would a soft start switch make a difference?



Almost certainly.


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## Kestrel

Question from a Mag85 noob:

One thing I am not understanding is how folks are charging their 9 NiMH cells. Is everyone using pack-type smart chargers (which I understand are superior). I have a bay-type (4) charger and I don't know the best way to get 9 NiMH cells charged evenly. Do I purchase 10 cells and overcharge the stuffing out of the non-used cell in the dumb charger, or can a 4 or 8 bay smart charger charge 10 cells in a convenient manner? Sorry if this seems like a dumb question but I've read this thread twice and I can't see the best way of going about doing this without purchasing a pack-type charger.

Also, can anyone make a guess on the lumens from 9xAA Alkalines? I know the runtime will stink but my bulb lumens will go from ~1200 (NiMH) to ??? I can get them free until I can figure out a good NiMH solution without spending a lot of $.

Sorry for the newbie questions, I don't even have my Mag85 yet but I am trying to plan in case I come across some used battery / charger configurations in the Marketplace that would prove satisfactory.

Thanks,
K


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## CharlieHo

Kestrel said:


> Question from a Mag85 noob:
> 
> One thing I am not understanding is how folks are charging their 9 NiMH cells. Is everyone using pack-type smart chargers (which I understand are superior). I have a bay-type (4) charger and I don't know the best way to get 9 NiMH cells charged evenly. Do I purchase 10 cells and overcharge the stuffing out of the non-used cell in the dumb charger, or can a 4 or 8 bay smart charger charge 10 cells in a convenient manner? Sorry if this seems like a dumb question but I've read this thread twice and I can't see the best way of going about doing this without purchasing a pack-type charger.
> 
> Also, can anyone make a guess on the lumens from 9xAA Alkalines? I know the runtime will stink but my bulb lumens will go from ~1200 (NiMH) to ??? I can get them free until I can figure out a good NiMH solution without spending a lot of $.
> 
> Sorry for the newbie questions, I don't even have my Mag85 yet but I am trying to plan in case I come across some used battery / charger configurations in the Marketplace that would prove satisfactory.
> 
> Thanks,
> K




I've been visiting often, checking for answers to this question.

I'm hoping someone in the know will answer someday 

I'm not only unsure about the charging situation, I'm planning on using fivemega's 9>3d adapters( I would like the charger to plug directly into the 9-cell adapter), but also what battery would be most prudent with a Mag85. I know technology has changed since a lot of these threads were written.

I have most of the components for a Mag85, I just need to decide on what's gonna power this thing.


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## Billy Ram

Boy is this an old thread. 
I just got through putting together my mag85 and I couldn't be more pleased. I went with the FM 2.5 Throw Master head and it does throw. I'm also using the FM 9xAA battery holder that came with a male plug for charging. I just soldered it to my charger leads and plug it in my battery holder. I loaded it with Titanium 2700 batterys. Some like eneloop LSDs and some like Titanium 1800 high currents. I believe any quality AA ni-mh you want to use will be ok. If you want a long run time you may want to use 2500-2700 mha. 
Billy


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## ^^Nova^^

The most highly recommended batteries are Eneloops, followed by Sanyo 2700's. The Eneloops will provide a higher voltage (less voltage drop) while the light is on and will hold there charge better when the light is off (rated at 80% charge 12 months after charging). The Sanyo 2700's will have longer runtime (maybe 20% longer) as they are a higher capacity battery.

As for chargers, get a pack charger, way easier than removing the batteries from the holder all the time. You can use either a dedicated 9.6v charger if you only have the mag85 to charge, or get a hobby charger that will also charge Li-Ion batteries as well as NiMH packs of differing voltage.

Cheers,
Nova


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## Billy Ram

So far I'm getting good service out of the Titanium 2700s. Most don't give them as high a rating as the Sanyo 2700s but the Sanyos are 30% more expensive. I'm showing arround 2.3ah with the Titaniums at 3.2a. I don't believe the Sanyos are delivering 30% more than the Titaniums.
Billy


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## fanaticalflashlightfan

Is there anyone else who sells a complete modded 3d mag other that juancho/blackbearflashlights? I heard his prices are competitive, but $200-$300 is a little more than I'm looking to spend on a platform that started at $30. Please advise, thanks and sorry if this has been previously addressed; I didn't see where.


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## flashfiend

I am too lazy to post the links but the easiest way to make a Mag 3D into a Mag85 is to get the following

-Fivemega Bi-Pin Socket (Can use Kiu Socket also)
-Fivemega 3AA 3D Battery Adapter
-Borofloat lens from flashlightlens.com
-Fivemega Bi-Focal Reflector (Can use another metallic reflector)
-WA1185 Bulbs


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## Billy Ram

fanaticalflashlightfan said:


> Is there anyone else who sells a complete modded 3d mag other that juancho/blackbearflashlights? I heard his prices are competitive, but $200-$300 is a little more than I'm looking to spend on a platform that started at $30. Please advise, thanks and sorry if this has been previously addressed; I didn't see where.


 I don't believe you could build a m*g85 for $30! The last ones I built were arround $104.00 not counting the cost of the host. 
9AA FM holder-------$39.00
Kiu kit---------------$12.00
WA 1185------------$6.00
Bi-Focal reflector----$20.00
Boro float lens-------$ 6.00
9ea. AA eneloops----$21.00
Total----------------$104.00
You will need a charger too.
Billy


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## Justin Case

You can reduce the price a bit by using 3xIMR26500 in a 2D Mag, filling the space with the ubiquitous PVC sleeve and doing a tail spring shortening mod. That costs about $50, vs. $60 for the 9AA holder and Eneloops. You might have to spend another $1 or so for a voltage drop resistor, especially when using the Kiu socket.

For the price-sensitive, you also can use a KD MOP reflector for about $15. However, I think that the extra money for the FM bifocal reflector is well-worth it.


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