# SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer



## kreisl

*SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

IFA *2014*, one of the world's relevant trade fairs for consumer electronics and home appliances, did not only unveil Galaxy Note 4 but also premiered a *demo *of a new advanced charger for us flashlight, ecig, RC toys, camera, charger, electric tools and appliances fans. It is rather big and heavy with its integrated metal heat sink and smart cooling fan, supports multi-chemistry, 73mm long cells, up to 2×26650+2×32650 out of the box, *4×3.00A* for a total of "*12 amps*" charge rate so to speak, also applicable to 12×AA or 16×AAA  NiMH parallel charging via holders, and with its pixelated LCD screen and eight buttons shares UI features of a Turnigy or iCharger (just without their _balance charging _functionality, of course).

if you will - it basically compares to a (non-balancing) hobby charger *with *4 independent channels in an integrated battery tray*,* the good looks of a Maha*, and* the build quality of a premium. I got some preliminary specs at hand but much is still in the works. And who knows .. i might turn this thread into a review/test thread when the product becomes available, a final test version or so. Ever since the Maha C9000 was released to market in *2006*, i've been dreaming of such a multi-chemistry machine. The Maha was very good, build quality, accuracy, but it lacked LiIon support. A first type of "dreamcharger" on the market was the Intellichage battery charger and it went into the right direction but this one, designed and manufactured by SkyRC, goes imho further: sort of a 2nd gen dreamcharger, i am dubbing it "*DC2*" for now, to be released in *2015 *:huh:

You want?


Since the charger maker may listen to our discussion while continuing with the development :thumbsup:, please everybody share your thoughts whether you'd like the idea of a _hobby charger with integrated battery tray_ and what kind of specs and features it should have; at least this new type of *round battery charger* sounds intriguing, doesn't it? 

Q. Hey squirrel you nuts is this another vaporware thread?
A. No Johnny dis ain't another i-want-a-dreamcharger thread, **** just got real!

Q. Btw haven't seen you much around lately. So that's what you've been up to in the recent past?
A. You could say so. I still use my flashlights everyday, i just lost interest in new lights, that's all. The DC2 project has become my new motor in the scene. Genuine joy.

Q. Good for you. The device looks like an expensive overkill but i'd still be interested in learning more about it. Can you provide info, news, or updates on the development? 
A. Sure i can, thanks for your interest. Stay tuned, i'll keep you posted. Overkill?, maybe. But also much fun. And things keep getting better, you'll see…. 

tags: < _adapter, adaptor, aisle, bank, bar, bay, body, box, caddy, canister, case, casing, carrier, channel, chassis, clamp, compartment, contact, converter, cover, cradle, dummy, encasing, enclosure, fixture, frame, groove, half, holder, housing, lane, magazine, pin, place, pole, port, post, rail, shaft, shell, shroud, slider, slot, spring, terminal, tray, well_ >

tag line: _Shop local, shop small, support local business_


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## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Very interesting. I remember reading about this some time ago, and held off buying the Opus. I'm glad I did, as the Opus has needed a few releases to deliver the goods.

I assume the RC crowd and the fast growing vaper industry will be the biggest market, but I'll be interested to see the final specs for this.

No idea on price yet?


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## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

I'll grab some specs for ya, no problem. Just lemme know what kind of detail you'd be interested in.
Price? No exact idea. Prolly more than MH-C9000 price, obviously. Because it does more than the Maha 

For our reference there are 5 extensive MH-C9000 threads (_last updated 2017-10-20_):

Maha MH-C9000 SUPPORT / FAQ Thread (128,280 / 418 : closed) 
Maha MH-C9000 SUPPORT / FAQ - continuation (241,584 / 1,215 : open) 
Maha MH-C9000, the Wizard One Charger (96,730 / 514 : closed) 
Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger (89,858 / 111 : open ) 
Maha MH-C9000, the Wizard One Charger (Part 2) (62,931 / 253 : open) 

For the MC3000, several youtube and discussion threads on forums exist. The following lists some _written _reviews or similar contributions on the net (_last updated 2016-05-27_):

_2015-11-25_ : http://mysku.me/blog/china-stores/36316.html 
_2015-11-29_ : http://shopper.life/skyrc-mc3000-obzor-universalnoy-no-nedeshevoy-zaryadki-6921.html 
_2015-12-07_ : http://www.ixbt.com/blogs/review-pc/skyrc-mc3000-ili-povelitel-akkumulyatorov.html 
_2015-12-13_ : http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=30314 
_2015-12-22_ : http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?413234-Test-Review-of-Charger-SkyRC-MC3000 
_2016-01-18_ : http://reviewsdelinternas.blogspot.hk/2016/01/skyrc-mc3000.html 
_2016-02-29_ : http://gn01140216.pixnet.net/blog/post/320968677-地表最強圓柱形充電器-skyrc-mc3000 
_2016-05-05 _: http://mamemokei.blogspot.com/2016/05/skyrc-mc3000.html 
_2016-05-24_ : http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/review-skyrc-mc3000-inkl-bedienhinweisen.48873/ 
_2016-05-27_ : http://woordenpraat.blogspot.com/2016/05/supercharge-your-life-with-mc3000.html 
 Nice.


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## _UPz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

/subs :twothumbs


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## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Will this charge cells that require 4.35v?


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## kreisl

*http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*

The below comprises a redacted filtered list of reasonable realistic feasible likable serious strong or urgent suggestions, nothing too distant from the present state of things. On another note, if you experience "trouble with something", we need to discern whom/what to really blame. For example in '_my _PC is dirty and freezes when working with DEX!' or '_my _*****y batteries don't get charged properly i hate the charger for it!' or '_my _Mcafee antivirus automatically deletes the PCLS *.EXE this needs to be fixed!' or '_my _flat is located in the Sahara and i get over-temperature error message 3x per week!' or 'i don't like the charger because it doesn't fit into _my _favorite pink desk drawer!' … whose problems are these tbh yours or Sky's? :thumbsup:

The below list, items k#1…k#62 regarding firmware v1.03, was covered by the *current firmware version which is v1.11* (June 2016), the changes from v1.03 to v1.11 are the following:

CONFIRMED = the forum-reported bug/issue/suggestion/idea has been confirmed by me, it means that i was able to reproduce it on my test sample, it is something real
UNCONFIRMED = i was not able to reproduce or understand the forum-reported bug/issue/suggestion/idea, maybe it's not real
FIXED = the confirmed bug/issue has been fixed in the firmware v1.11, says the maker 
BEING FIXED = the confirmed bug/issue will be fixed for the v1.11 release, says the squirrel 
DONE = the confirmed suggestion/idea has been implemented in the firmware v1.11
PENDING = not submitted. not tackled yet, topic will be looked at in future
FOR FUTURE RELEASE = submitted. not tackled yet, topic will be looked at in future
NOT AGREED = submitted. no agreement achieved, topic needs to be revisited in future
TESTED = the fixed bug/issue in v1.11 has been tested OK by me ('bug is gone!')
NOT TESTED = i have not tested the allegedly fixed item yet sollie hh

List of device *firmware* suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order):


*++++++++++++++++changes for firmware v1.11 as follows: ++++++++++++++++*
(k#1) Break_in C>D>C should report discharged capacity, not charged capacity (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#2) correct default for NiMH/Eneloop discharge cut-off be 1.00V (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#3) NiZn battery chemistry must not have the Break_in operation mode (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#4) TERMINATION option in NiZn programming was missing (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#5) Refresh should report both discharged and charged capacity, like Cycle mode (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#6) check functionality of NiMH RESTART VOLT option (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#7) does not terminate charging after Liion REFRESH Finish, if RESTART VOLT was set (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#8) Cooling Fan temperature is a fixed 122°F in Dummy Mode (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#9) Dummy mode 3hr charge time limitation is too short for NiMH (CONFIRMED, FIXED, NOT TESTED)
(k#10) Dummy mode 3hr charge time limitation is too short for LiIon (CONFIRMED, FIXED, NOT TESTED)
(k#11) Dummy mode trickle charge should be off (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#12) AUTO fan needs 3°C hysteresis on all fan levels (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#13) automatic backlight on when program has finished (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#14) automatic backlight on when inserting new batteries (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#15) Break_in was effectively limited to 500mAh+ batteries because of 0.05A minimum current (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#16) both SOV and DDV could still be accessible after abnormal program termination (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#17) add in TOV for ready slots separate IR measurement thru <STOP+UP> pressing (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED), revisited see (k#32)
(k#18) add in TOV meaningful program names (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#19) add in GSV "Names: {Default|Parameter}" to allow meaningful program names in TOV (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#20) add in GSV "Run Hardware Test" option (CONFIRMED, FOR FUTURE RELEASE)
(k#21) in LiIon REFRESH mode the discharging/discharged ENERGY is wrong (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#22) after finishing REFRESH mode the charged ENERGY gets reported, which is wrong (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#23) charging a super high IR Eneloop results in confusing "Connection Break" instead of "Bad Battery" error message (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#24) after finishing D>C (N=1) CYCLE mode the energy history unit says "Whn" instead of "Wh" (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#25) In 1.04b, Break_in discharge current for 100mAh and 200mAh should be -0.02A and -0.04A respectively (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#26) In 1.04b, NiMH Cycle doesn't allow to set TRICKLE C. (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#27) LiIon protection reset feature stops working in a slot after a NiMH Charge program has run in that slot (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#28) In 1.04b, AUTO fan has correct hysteresis but the function is buggy after all (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#29) Higher decimal internal resolution for computation of mAh, W, and Wh possible? (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#30) add in GSV "Dummy Charge: 0.7A" option which allows user to modify the 0.7A default charge rate of Dummy Mode (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#31) In TOV, deactivate short-press functionality of STOP-button; only long-press will effect Stop All for active slots (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#32) In 1.04b, in TOV, button press combo for Batt IR measurement should be <UP+DOWN>, not <STOP+UP> (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#33) add in SOV the item "Average: 1.234V" to indicate the average voltage (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#34) In NiMH Charge mode with C.RESTING set, missing beep for entering resting routine (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#35) RESTART VOLT should be a fixed OFF in NiMH/NiCd Break_in operation mode (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#36) sometimes a finishing slot would not produce a completion beep, for example: only the 1st NiMH charge finish gets completion beep; so while discharging it, the other 3 slots finished charge without completion beep (CONFIRMED, FIXED I DUNNO, NOT TESTED HAHA)
(k#37) bug in 'Similar programs' feature: SPV changes for SAVE TO [04] are adopted invisibly in original [01] too until latter is re-entered and re-saved (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#38) add in GSV some hidden generic LCD games for 1 player (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#39) a bug in FW which allowed the user to discharge 4x(-2.00A) LiIon programmed&started from the phone app (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#40) In GSV, HW Version doesn't display the actual PCB revision version correctly (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#41) add in SPV "TRICKLE TIME: {OFF|End|Rest}" to control the timing of TRICKLE C. NiMH option (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#42) in Dummy Mode, for NiMH/NiCd use MH-C9000 charging algorithm (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#43) in GSV, the item Contrast is typographically misspelled as Constast (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#44) add in GSV "Bluetooth: {On|Off}" to turn on/off smartphone control thru the mc3k Bluetooth module (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#45) SPV parameter TERMINATION:Zero should lead to a minimum current and not finish the program; the user could set CUT TIME parameter for a timed finish (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#46) add in DDV the graph of SysTemp as the fifth graph (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#47) add in GSV a SYSTEM BEEP option to toggle on/off beeps other than KEY BEEP (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#48) add in TOV a LCD screensaver bouncing pixel when all four slots are empty for >5 mins (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#49) in IMV, typography, change Save to to Saved to, and Use to Using (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#50) in SOV, Energy should be displayed with +0.001Wh resolution (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#51) in GSV, d*****e a*l g***s b*****e of p*******l c*******t i**********t (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#52) in SOV, discharge Energy calculation should be as accurate as DEX and Excel crosscheck calculations (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#53) incorrect data sent to USB for Cycle NiZn C>D makes DEX go wild in non-continuous logging mode (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#54) the initial IR check should not be performed on deeply discharged protected LiIon say below 3.30V offline voltage (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#55) an interesting display bug after Cycle mode D>C>D has finished (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#56) add in GSV and TOV the possibility to parallel quick set a favorite program in all fours slots through a SNB (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#57) revise the unreleased implementation of RAM battery chemistry support and do more tests in the lab (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#58) add in GSV the item Screensaver: {On|Off} to turn the LCD screensaver on/off (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED), _also see (k#48)_
(k#59) in SOV, charge Energy calculation seems off between LCD and DEX e.g. for NiMH battery (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#60) send higher resolution capacity data to USB port for smoother logging capacity graphs in Excel, PCLS, DEX, a.o. (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#61) add in GSV the item Language to confirm the present system language setting (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#62) one slot out of four may surprisingly show CHECK VOLTAGE message even with BATT TYPE set correctly (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
*++++++++++++++++changes for firmware v1.12 as follows: ++++++++++++++++*
(k#63) charge/discharge rate defaults for Eneloop are off by +20%, also Plus AA needs revision (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#64) in GSV, the HW Version should be displayed as  ≥1.3 instead of 1.4+ (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#65) expand API-spec for complete API-coverage of all additional options&parameters in SPV, e.g. D.RESTING, TRICKLE TIME, and for support of future DEX versions (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#66) add in GSV the item Soft Charge to control the soft charging of deeply discharged LiIon/LiIo4.35-batteries (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#67) the parameter defaults for RAM charging need to be revised (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#68) in NiMH/NiCd/Eneloop Refresh mode TRICKLE TIME cannot be OFF if TRICKLE C. is set (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#69) in GSV, a long-press on HW Version would invoke the display of the *** address (CONFIRMED, FIXED, UNTESTED)
(k#70) sending a high CAPACITY cut value from DEX/PCLS/APP to device did not work (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#71) add in GSV the item Dummy: {NiMH/LiIon|NiMH/LiFe|NiZn/LiIon|NiZn/LiFe} to let the user switch between dummy pairing, or at least add a placeholder for it for now (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#72) in settings other than Auto, LCD backlight does not automatically turn on when battery is inserted (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#73) if Kep Beep:Off and System Beep:On, then there is no system beep at program completion (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#74) after half a minute in TOV, key combo <UP+SNB> functionality seems to time out and does not retrieve favorite program any longer unless one resets the timer by leaving TOV temporarily (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#75) long-press SETUP-button, instead of short-press, to finish slot prematurely in SOV and DDV (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#76) in Storage mode Zero and -Zero should always be the defaults, not only for the landing page (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#77) in TOV, Namesarameter for Eneloop Break_in shows nominal capacity 20% too high (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#78) during the UP/DOWN-selection of a program number in SPV for a ready slot, long-pressing the SNB of that slot should save the selected program to the slot, start the slot and return to TOV (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#79) in SOV, no highlighted lines necessary, scrolling should start right away upon first click on DOWN-button (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#80) in SOV, show battery temperature with the CUT TEMP parameter like BattTemp: 23.8/45C bzw BattTemp: 123/160F (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)*
*
*++++++++++++++++changes for firmware v1.13 as follows: ++++++++++++++++*
(k#81) if in LiIon Refresh program the CUT VOLT was set to 3.29V or lower, Batt IR will show N/A in SOV during the last Charge routine until Finish (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#82) in GSV, add an option Save To: {Slot|All Slots|Ready} which determines the default setting of SAVE TO in SPV (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#83) the beeping of screensaver can't be turned off anymore unless the screensaver itself is turned off (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#84) in LiIon Cycle program C>D the Batt IR will show N/A in SOV during the Discharge routine until Finish (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
*++++++++++++++++changes for firmware v1.14 as follows: ++++++++++++++++*
(k#85) in SOV, routine timer Time has a 65536 seconds-per-routine limitation which looks nn (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#86) in SOV, Average stops getting updated after the first 24 hours into the routine (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#87) let's make the average voltage Average available at the interface specification too, for use in DEX3.3.3 (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#88) adding another officially supported battery chemistry, namely LTO (CONFIRMED, DONE, TESTED)
(k#89) in GSV, using up <DOWN+SNB> for additional four favorite programs (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#90) in TOV, not clicking <UP/DOWN> but long-pressing the button should invoke DDV (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#91) in SPV, RAM discharge cutoff voltage default should be 0.90V and the lowest 0.50V, instead of 0.80V and 0.70V respectively (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#92) in GSV, remove the unlocking procedure for unlocking RAM, default remains Hide:Yes (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#93) when doing NiMH Cycle C>D, during C.RESTING the routine TIME stays at 00:00:00 (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
(k#94) new bug introduced: TIME has been set equal to TOTAL, which is wrong! This new bug effects k#93, k#85, and possibly also k#86 (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
*++++++++++++++++changes for firmware v1.15alpha as follows: ++++++++++++++++*
:tired: none :sleepy:
*+++++++++++++++++UNCONFIRMED bugs & misc: ++++++++++++++++++++++++*
bug: charging dormant NiZn batteries exhibits unexpected algorithm graph and doesn't seem to terminate even after hours (UNCONFIRMED)
bug: CUT TIME should refer to TOTAL TIME but may or may not cut as expected (UNCONFIRMED)
bug: Beep set to OFF in GSV but charger still emits beeping sounds when program has finished (UNCONFIRMED)
bug: LiIon "D>C, N=1" should report discharged capacity as "Cycle1" in SOV (UNCONFIRMED)
bug: NiMH "D>C, N=1" should report discharged capacity as "Cycle1" in SOV (UNCONFIRMED)
bug: in FW1.13 scrolling the options in SETUP could hang at SNB#4 Memory (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: separate capacity cut options for charge and discharge routines and with uninterrupted program operation (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: some food for thought by radellaf (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: IR measurement at start and end of each charge/discharge/resting routine (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: in TOV, pressing UP (DOWN) resets all ready slots to [01] and increments (decrements) program number from there in parallel (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: in TOV and SOV, also in DEX, show discharging capacity, energy, a.o. with negative sign (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: in GSV, also in DEX, add an option for the user to switch the physical unit of energy to Joule (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: in GSV, add an option which makes the DOWN-button increment program numbers in SPV (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: in GSV, add another parameter for the Names option which in TOV displays the parameters exclusively, without the annoying toggling (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: in SPV, add OnCapacityNext option which does not finish Cycle program at CUT CAPACITY (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: a refined NiMH charging algorithm byBenediction (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: low input voltage threshold suggestion by Julian Holtz (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: show both charged and discharge capacities in SOV for Cycle programs (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: whynot offer 2x(-2.00A) LiIon discharging if 4x(-1.00A) LiIon discharging is allowed (UNCONFIRMED)
idea: in TOV, when a battery gets inserted in an empty slot, the view switches from TOV to SPV of that slot, either automatically or thru a new GSV option (UNCONFIRMED, NOT AGREED)
idea: in Dummy Mode, programming the charge rate for 4 slots altogether (CONFIRMED, NOT AGREED), _replaced by (k#30)_
idea: why not simply offer 0.01A and -0.01A as minimum charge transfer rates (CONFIRMED, NOT AGREED)
idea: in GSV, a greater selection of parameters for the System Beep option (CONFIRMED, PENDING)
idea: improvement of bluetooth pairing for a multi-device multi-phone environment (CONFIRMED, PENDING)
idea: adding another battery chemistry, LTO (CONFIRMED, PENDING)
 
List of *PCLS* (PC Link Software, also called "MC3000 Monitor" for WinXP) suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order):
- see Tim's thoughtful list (UNCONFIRMED)
- Win10 support (NOT AGREED)
- not a bug: PCLS window is too big for 720p screen resolution (UNCONFIRMED)
- not a bug: PCLS should disable Windows OS sleep/standby mode otherwise logging gets interrupted (UNCONFIRMED)
- bug: CSV log appears to be 3-10sec shorter than LCD logging (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- bug: displays NiMH load voltage during RESTART charge routine (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- bug: Refresh mode does not have fixed Cycle Count. it should be fixed to N=1 (UNCONFIRMED)
- bug: CUT TIME parameter range too restricted compared to SPV (TESTING)
- idea: save the 30 programs to computer file, and also reload them by overwriting altogether (DONE IN DEX)
- idea: save User Calibration data to computer file, and also restore them by overwriting present calibration data (UNCONFIRMED)
- idea: should save data to file all the time, instead of just at the end (UNCONFIRMED)
- idea: separate independent Start/Stop buttons for each of the 4 slots (UNCONFIRMED) 
- idea: a 'Clear Graph'-button for each slot (NOT AGREED)
*Note: *PCLS has demo and ref character and also serves to inspire independent third-party software developers to build their own PC software. In terms of likability, utility, stability, flexibility, compatibility, functionality, etc PCLS has already been surpassed by free open-source software such as DEX, see below. With the existence and regular updates of DEX, which is obviously a very serious piece of MC3000-compatible PC software, there is imho little point left in using PCLS anymore. If you use and like PCLS, do consider switching to DEX anyway. PCLS has gone obsolete kinda. Btw no external driver needs to be installed, once you connect the charger with the Windows PC (e.g. WinXP SP3 or Win7 with .NET Framework 4.0) the necessary driver is installed internally/automatically and it is recognized as USB-HID in the device manager.

List of *DEX* (DataExplorer) suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order):
- bug: installing DEX on MacOS could be challenging for some end consumers (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED by ninjasmoke)
- bug: timing inconsistency (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- bug: energy calculated by DEX is incorrect (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- bug: something about NO BATTERY showing hmm (UNCONFIRMED)

List of *Raspi app *(DEX3.2.9+ on Raspbian Raspberry Pi) suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order):
- idea: recipe v0.0001c by Ravel, see pic1 and pic2, just awesome!! :kiss:
- idea: extended tutorial recipe by Ravel, see pic3 and pic4 so beautiful!!! :kiss::kiss:
- idea: autostart of DEX on Raspi by cpa :thumbsup:
- idea: story time by kreisl 

List of *Android app* suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order):
- bug: often crashes on Android (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- bug: possibly a bug when exiting the app (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- bug: when pairing a headset at the same time (UNCONFIRMED)
- bug: another bug detailed by Meyer (NOT TESTED)
- idea: something about UI improvement nice (UNCONFIRMED)

List of *iPhone app* suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order):
- bug: crashes on iOS9 (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- bug: without power_cycle unexpected non-empty slots
- bug: app displays device-°F as app-°C, and converted to app-°F even higher wrong numbers 
- bug: the charger graphic is both upside down and backwards in the IOS app in relation to the added +/- battery graphic and how one would look at the actual charger
- bug: when bluetooth connection is interrupted, the Batt IR value jumps to 65k mOhm and only restarting the program would reset it

List of *hardware* suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order):
- textured black buttons with recessed symbols as seen on other new Sky hobby chargers (CONFIRMED, NOT AGREED)
- flashing SNB's during firmware update to signal data transfer activity (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- more secure attachment of temperature sensor to the aluminum cooler (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- revised lower case with recessed label, spaced fan/longer brackets (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- a. o. (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- more memory in STM32F103RC (UNCONFIRMED, NOT AGREED) 
- slider geometry higher degree of optimization (UNCONFIRMED, NOT AGREED)

List of *instruction manual* suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order), also see WWJD's fabulous Cheat Sheet:
- PCLS stops logging if other USB devices or bluetooth are activated (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
- still no detailing of hard reset procedure (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)


----------



## Trevilux

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Looks really promising.


----------



## NorthernStar

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Can one charge 18650,RCR123 and 14500 batteries in it? :thinking:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

without adapters: 4xRCR123, 4x*10440*, 4x14500, 4x18650, 4x26650, or 2x32650+2x26650, and all NiMH sizes: 4xAAA, 4xAA, 4xC, or 2xC+2xD. as mentioned, the device is rather big compared to the tiny XTAR XP4/XP4c 

*lowest* possible user-set charge rate be 0.05A, lowest possible user-set discharge rate -0.05A. Of course, during the CV-phase of LiIon charging/discharging the rates can get much lower (0.01A, 0.001A, 0.0001A) depending on other user-set parameters such as termination current.

for comparison purposes, iCharger lowest user-set rates are 0.05A/-0.05A, same thing!


----------



## NorthernStar

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Thanks for the info,Kreisl! What's the maximum charge rate when charging 4x18650? Can one charge them at 4×3.00A?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

lol man, that's exactly what the OP stated 

each slot is controlled individually, you can set each to 3.00A charge rate, that's the maximum possible for LiIon charging. with 4 batteries and each at 3 amps at the same time simultaneously, the total is 12 amps, yep - no problem with this machine 

the preliminary specs seem to limit NiMH charging to 2.00A (per battery). of course you can mix batteries, e.g. M1=Eneloop 2.00A, M2=NCR18650B 3.00A, M3=26650 3.00A, M4=Eneloop 2.00A, for a total of 10 amps.

you'll need some good external power supply for such heavy load charging. because of size and potential thermals, an AC/DC PSU (power switching unit/power supply unit) is not integrated in the machine and the user must connect the charger to a 12-18V DC source. any simple power adapter would do the trick, e.g. with 60Watts OUTPUT DC 15V 4A. i don't know if such a power adapter is included in the retail shipping unit of the product and maybe this question has not been decided upon yet. please note that Turnigy, iCharger, etc don't come packaged with a FREE PSU adapter. i, for example, run my iCharger 106B+ with the old version(!) power adapter (MODEL:KYT1200300AV) of my Opus BT-C3100 v1.0 charger.


----------



## NorthernStar

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> lol man, that's exactly what the OP stated
> 
> each slot is controlled individually, you can set each to 3.00A charge rate, that's the maximum possible for LiIon charging. with 4 batteries and each at 3 amps at the same time simultaneously, the total is 12 amps, yep - no problem with this machine
> 
> the preliminary specs seem to limit NiMH charging to 2.00A (per battery). of course you can mix batteries, e.g. M1=Eneloop 2.00A, M2=NCR18650B 3.00A, M3=26650 3.00A, M4=Eneloop 2.00A, for a total of 10 amps.
> 
> nomenclature: M1 = slot#1 of the machine



Great! Finally a fast charger! The specs of this charger are great. I think i am going to buy this charger.


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

OK, a few more questions.

Can this new charger measure cell resistance?

Will I be able to use it for data logging easily? Not that I do this at the moment, but if I'm going to invest in one of these beasts, that would seem to be something worth doing.

Finally, how future proof is this charger? Will the firmware be easily updated?

Thanks again for bringing this charger to our attention. Oh, and what date is the IFA?


----------



## tatasal

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Dubois said:


> OK, a few more questions.
> 
> Can this new charger measure cell resistance?
> 
> Will I be able to use it for data logging easily? Not that I do this at the moment, but if I'm going to invest in one of these beasts, that would seem to be something worth doing.
> 
> Finally, how future proof is this charger? Will the firmware be easily updated?
> 
> Thanks again for bringing this charger to our attention. Oh, and what date is the IFA?



Yes, it can measure IR on each cradle.
Yes, it gives out charge and the more important discharge capacities, but no usb out for data logging to a pc.
Future-proof? These days, it's either you stay with the times or sleep behind. The firmware is not upgrade-able digitally by the end-user.
Now available at gearbest.

Edit: I assume the OP means the current and the latest v2.1.
Review just posted by HKJ: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-BT-C3100-V2-1


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



tatasal said:


> Edit: I assume the OP means the current and the latest v2.1.
> Review just posted by HKJ: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-BT-C3100-V2-1



tatasal dear friend, i think i am in the wrong thread 

Dubois you have some clever questions there! Firmwarez?, Updating?, the BT-C3100 dreamcharger doesn't have such a possibility so how come you think … :thinking:

Someone's ahead of my specs sheet 


Oh, IFA starts this Friday, Sept 5th:




Check out Hall 28 and look for Booth #525. Xtar is in Hall 26.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

seems like a bit of overkill for vapers. Does it do Pb batteries as well?


----------



## tatasal

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Mr Floppy said:


> seems like a bit of overkill for vapers. Does it do Pb batteries as well?



I am not into vaping, but personally I believe something that can measure the discharge capacities of cells, specially to vapers, is a very good feature to have. It eliminates the guesswork about the health of your cells, a compared to just a straight-up charger.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

currently the implemented chemistries are:

NiMH
 
Eneloop
 
NiCd
 
NiZn
 
LiIon
 
LiIo4.35
 
LiFe 
simply because these are chemistries for which round/cylindrical batteries do exist and may still be found in old stores, shops or homes. when you go shopping for recent production stock, you'll have a hard time to even find round NiZn, NiCd or LiFe batteries. cylindrical LiPo or cylindrical Pb batteries practically don't exist or are extinct, that's the main reason why these 2 chemistries are not implemented at this point of time.

however, implementing new future battery chemistry technologies is a piece of cake, since it is all a matter of expanding the firmware only. And yes, it will be possible to update/upgrade the firmware FOR FREE :thumbsup:. Rather easily.

I know that iCharger supports Pb and LiPo, non-cylindrical batteries. But it doesn't have dedicated modes for Eneloop nor LiIo4.35


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



tatasal said:


> Now available at gearbest.
> 
> Edit: I assume the OP means the current and the latest v2.1.



This is a very different beast from the Opus, and looks better from what I've seen so far.

I bet the vaper crowd would look at this and say "a bit overkill for those silly flashlight people. They don't need all that functionality".


----------



## realista

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

excuse me..... i dont understand what charger is it.

are you talking about opus c3100 ??? or another one charger similar to opus? if it another one could you kindly give me some link to read some info about it?


----------



## _UPz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Sounds really good. Like a Maha with Li-Ion support and upgradeable firmware...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Dubois said:


> Can this new charger measure cell resistance?



i checked. Yes, the charger measures cell resistance on the fly, that is when running a MODE, and the LCD screen displays the miliOhms-value when you switch to the SOV (slot operation view). SOV shows quite some details about the slot/battery, not only :tired: voltage, cell internal resistance and elapsed time, lol 



realista said:


> could you kindly give me some link to read some info about it?


ciao alessandro, 
here is your link: DC2 INFO LINK, that's all there is for now


----------



## realista

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

ok, so basiccaly will be made by the same company what created the opus c3100. but the new version will be much more premium quality( and at higher cost) and with 3a charging current.
however for normal people also 1A or 2A(wuth 1 and 4 slot) of actual opus would be ok....... so basically this new version will be only for "PREMIUM" people........


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



realista said:


> will be made by the same company what created the opus c3100



yikes


----------



## _UPz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



realista said:


> ok, so basiccaly will be made by the same company what created the opus c3100. but the new version will be much more premium quality( and at higher cost) and with 3a charging current.
> however for normal people also 1A or 2A(wuth 1 and 4 slot) of actual opus would be ok....... so basically this new version will be only for "PREMIUM" people........



For what I undertand in this thread the upcoming device has nothing to do with the OPUS company. I have my own idea about it, but I'll wait to see if the folks visiting berlin IFA confirms my suspicions.


----------



## trdtam

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Any idea on when this charger will be available? :naughty:


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> i checked. Yes, the charger measures cell resistance on the fly, that is when running a MODE, and the LCD screen displays the miliOhms-value when you switch to the SOV (slot operation view). SOV shows quite some details about the slot/battery, not only :tired: voltage, cell internal resistance and elapsed time, lol



OK, looking good, thanks Kreisl.

If i buy this will I be a "premium" person?


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Hello Dubois,

No...

But you may have a "premium" tool to measure the performance of your batteries with.  

Tom


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



SilverFox said:


> Hello Dubois,
> 
> No...
> 
> But you may have a "premium" tool to measure the performance of your batteries with.
> 
> Tom



Lol, fair point. The only "premium" label I normally see is on a beer bottle. Even then, I rarely trust it. I might drink it .....

Getting back on topic, I am looking forward to see some real world impressions of this charger.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

1. External user supplied power supply required
2. Charge Rate: 100mA - 3A (Lithium) (2A NiMH) (subject to powersupply) *****
3. Advanced Info display includes Cell internal resistance *****
4. Will charge LiIon @ 4.35V (some adjustment possible on actual cutoff level) *****
5. User Upgradeable Firmware *****1/2
6. Supported Chemistries: NiMH, Eneloop, NiCd, NiZn, LiIon, LiIo4.35, LiFe 
7. 4 Independent Battery Bays

Hmmm... looks pretty good... why did you list Eneloop as a separate Chemistry from NiMH? Is the charge program any different for these LSD cells?


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> if you will - it be basically a hobby charger *with *4 independent channels in an integrated battery tray



I'm sold...

No more "simulated" CC/CV, high termination, early termination, fake current value, extremely slow 0.3C rate, parasitic drain when not connected to power, overpriced... common problems among "high quality" li-ion chargers these days. 

But honetly all I want is a iCharge 106b+ with 6 adjustable slots :shrug:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Dubois said:


> Will I be able to use it for data logging easily? Not that I do this at the moment, but if I'm going to invest in one of these beasts, that would seem to be something worth doing.



I had forgotten to answer this question.
Erh, yes the device has 2 USB sockets. One for general USB power output for charging your smartphone battery, and one for PC Link output (logging) and input (control).
Again, at this point i don't know if the PC Link USB cable is packaged in the retail shipping unit but the PC Link software (WinXP or higher) will be 100% FREE :thumbsup:.

Firmwarez updating isn't necessarily done thru the PC Link software. The current updating format is a downloadable _*.EXE_-file which you fire up while the device is connected to your Win PC.

So with the PC Link software you have control over the basic functions (load/set the MODE parameters, start/stop MODE or PROGRAM) and of course see everything running: automatic logging/graphing the main quantities such as voltage (with 3 decimals :naughty, current, cell temperature, capacity, etc. The present version of the software is functional and stable but very basic and hopefully they continue to develop it into a full-fledged Win-software with Excel-export and looping of several MODES or PROGRAMS. iCharger's PC Link software is called LogView and is for logging only (not control) and made by German developer Dominik. There is some chance that in future Dominik's highly evolutionized Win-software will also support the device. LogView has already advanced logging features, Excel/HTML-export and so on.

Bad news for Apple/Linux users: no computer link software for ya 

However, wireless cordless cable-free link is being developed, they're discussing either WiFi connection (to smartphone, not PC) or Bluetooth 4.0 connection (to smartphone). What would you guys prefer?


----------



## oKtosiTe

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Picture or it didn't happen.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



StandardBattery said:


> why did you list Eneloop as a separate Chemistry from NiMH? Is the charge program any different for these LSD cells?



No, the actual charging algorithm for BATT TYPE NiMH and BATT TYPE ENELOOP is the same, it is CC-charging (constant current) with PEAK SENS -dU/dt as main termination method.
With BATT TYPE ENELOOP the author pays tribute to the revolutionary Sanyo-Panasonic battery, the *most important* and popular NiMH-based battery in today's modern world, where Mr.Ignoramus still wonders what kind of wonder battery type Eneloops are. Are they regular NiMH?, are they special NiMH?, are they a mixed NiMH-NiWhat, or are they something new on their own? 

The UI (user interface) for ENELOOP is slightly different, comes with optimized presets (still adjustable though), so the user is good to go after fewer button clicks.

It also showcases that the maker would implement any new relevant battery type in a heartbeat. If the industry comes up with cylindrical LiPo or cylindrical Pb batteries, the user would see them implemented in the next firmware update.


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

This does give the charger some future-proof advantages. I suppose it's too early to have any final product release date?

Not that I am impatient or anything, you understand lol.


----------



## Chloe

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Sounds like a really exciting charger! Any idea who the manufacturer is or release date?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Dubois said:


> I suppose it's too early to have any final product release date?



i think we can agree that there is no need to be impatient. this whole development project is way too complex and important that one would want a rushed release. it's getting ~1.5 yrs which the maker spent behind closed doors :candle: on designing the PCB layout from scratch and reiterating the prototypes and early production samples numerous times in order to release a product which is mature from the IPO. On the IFA the booth staff may not announce anything aloud but let visitors know about an unofficial tentative date.

so far i didn't hear anything concrete. No price. No date.


Sounds like vaporware to me :kewlpics: lol


----------



## oKtosiTe

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> This ain't no vaporware.





kreisl said:


> Sounds like vaporware to me


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



oKtosiTe said:


>



Sorry for your confusion.
Clearly, it is no vaporware.
Tomorrow is Friday, start of IFA: visitors can take photos, lay hands, play, ask and come back here and report about this new charger.

i'll be damned :banned:if the product is not shown, presented or demo'ed there!


----------



## oKtosiTe

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> Sorry for your confusion.
> Clearly, it is no vaporware.
> Tomorrow is Friday, start of IFA: visitors can take photos, lay hands, play, ask and come back here and report about this new charger.
> 
> i'll be damned :banned:if the product is not shown, presented or demo'ed there!



Looking forward to it. 
Might be in the market for a new charger soon.


----------



## TweakMDS

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

So, it's friday, stuff opens at 9 normally, is anyone there? 
I have a bunch of chargers but none that are perfect. This looked promising enough to replace a drawer full of overly specialistic chargers / cables / plugs.
I'm very curious about the form and size though, so pictures would be very welcome!


----------



## shelm

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

+ 1

have been following this thread too. now it's about time for some hard facts like photos, price, model name and designer's name!


----------



## BrightLignt

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

CES is much more relevant for consumer electronics and appliances and the iPhone 6 will not be announced at IFA.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



TweakMDS said:


> and size though, so


Dimensions are (in *mm*), H×W×L: ~68.8 × ~124.0 × ~200.3
Weight is (in *grams*): ~601 w/o adapter

weight of BT-C3100: 230g w/o adapter

For comparison, XTAR VP4 dimensions and weight unknown :ironic:


----------



## leaftye

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

What is the maximum discharge rate, and does it matter how many batteries are loaded?

Is logging every 1S, 2S...is the interval adjustable?

Does it have 2 wire or 4 wire internal resistance testing?

I'd like to see a storage mode.

I'd also like to see more pronounced bumps on the positive contact point. The Opus barely works with some of the flat top batteries I've tested.


----------



## atbglenn

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Sounds very interesting. Problem is, I have way too many decent chargers. Oh hell, what's one more  That said, I'm pretty excited about this one..


----------



## leaftye

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



atbglenn said:


> Sounds very interesting. Problem is, I have way too many decent chargers. Oh hell, what's one more  That said, I'm pretty excited about this one..



Same here, but I could use another good charger to charge my batteries between tests. Having another internal resistance tester is good too. That it can take 4*26650 is even better. That it can also log is fantastic. I wish I could get a review sample without actually having to do a regular test. Kreisler, you think adding its test results (IR & logs) in my battery tests would be enough??


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



leaftye said:


> What is the maximum discharge rate, and does it matter how many batteries are loaded?
> 
> Is logging every 1S, 2S...is the interval adjustable?
> 
> Does it have 2 wire or 4 wire internal resistance testing?
> 
> I'd like to see a storage mode.
> 
> I'd also like to see more pronounced bumps on the positive contact point. The Opus barely works with some of the flat top batteries I've tested.



Hello leaftye, hi Glenn 

Some good questions there:

STORAGE MODE implementation in iCharger is §$%&!: when the cell voltage is say 4.2V and needs to get discharged at say -1.0A, iCharger does exactly that: a CC-discharge down to (system fixed!) 3.75V voltage under load, and as soon as it is reached, the MODE is terminated. Give the cell some rest, and its offline voltage will be back recovered to say 3.93V, which is a leap away from the desired 3.75V.

STORAGE MODE in DC2 has some adjustable parameters which ensure that the offline cell voltage will be exactly say 3.78V as set and wished by the user.

Logging of iCharger is every 2.0sec and cannot be adjusted. Logging of DC2 is every 1.0sec and no this interval cannot be adjusted either.

It does not matter how many batteries are in the tray and what kind of different MODES they're under operation. No matter what, each slot can be independently discharged at a max. rate of -1.00A only. Thus the highest discharge power is only when (-1.00A*4)*4.40V= -17.6W. Dedicated balance chargers have 1 large loud fan mounted on cooling fins, similar to a PC CPU cooler, plus a metal housing to remove the heat of one single battery. Sure they can discharge a single battery at much higher rates. MH-C9000 max is (-1.0A*4)*1.5V= -6.0W. 6 Watts is not a challenge for DC2 but 18 Watts can become one, depending on the room temperature. The internal temperature (taken as average of 4 internal sensors) and the 4 battery temperatures are displayed on the LCD, very convenient and helpful.

The positive contact points are a bit more pronounced than on the Opus and there is no issue with flat top batteries. 

2m wire internal resistance testing .. erh :thinking: .. you got me there!!


----------



## leaftye

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> Hello leaftye,
> 
> you have some good questions there:
> 
> STORAGE MODE implementation in iCharger is §$%&!: when the cell voltage is say 4.2V and needs to get discharged at say -1.0A, iCharger does exactly that: a CC-discharge down to (system fixed!) 3.75V voltage under load, and as soon as it is reached, the MODE is terminated. Give the cell some rest, and its offline voltage will be back recovered to say 3.93V, which is a leap away from the desired 3.75V.
> 
> STORAGE MODE in DC2 has some adjustable parameters which ensure that the offline cell voltage will be exactly say 3.78V as set and wished by the user.
> 
> Logging of iCharger is every 2.0sec and cannot be adjusted. Logging of DC2 is every 1.0sec and this interval cannot be adjusted either.
> 
> It does not matter how many batteries are in the tray and what kind of different MODES they're under operation. No matter what, each slot can be independently discharged at a max. rate of -1.00A only. Thus the highest discharge power is only when (-1.00A*4)*4.40V= -17.6W. Dedicated balance chargers have 1 large loud fan mounted on cooling fins, similar to a PC CPU cooler, plus a metal housing to remove the heat of one single battery. Sure they can discharge a single battery at much higher rates. MH-C9000 max is (-1.0A*4)*1.5V= -6.0W. 6 Watts is not a challenge for DC2 but 18 Watts can become one, depending on the room temperature. The internal temperature (taken as average of 4 internal sensors) and the 4 battery temperatures are displayed on the LCD, very convenient and helpful.
> 
> The positive contact points are a bit more pronounced than on the Opus and there is no issue with flat top batteries.
> 
> 2m wire internal resistance testing .. erh :thinking: .. you got me there!!:touche:
> ​



I totally agree with your assessment of the storage mode function of the iCharger. I've given up on it. Now I slightly overcharge, then use nimh discharge to slowly (0.1A) get down to the desired storage level. Since I do that in multiple steps of decreasing current, it becomes a huge hassle. Having a smarter storage function would be very greatly appreciated.

Logging every 2 seconds is totally acceptable since it only discharges at 1A. 1A discharge is about what I expect unless this is priced at the same level as the CBA IV. Discharging at +10A makes it nice to have smaller intervals, which makes the 2S intervals of the iCharger limited, but at least my dc load can do 1S intervals.

4 wire internal resistance testing was a stretch. I'm not sure how that would be possible with adjustable battery bays, but I can dream, right?

The rest sounds good. Unless there's some flaws getting in the way of that very nice feature list, this is going to be a very powerful tool for analyzing cylindrical lithium ion batteries.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



leaftye said:


> Kreisl**, you think adding its test results (IR & logs) in my battery tests would be enough??


i know what you mean. instead of posting iCharger-produced data we could post DC2-produced test results, logs and internal resistance measurements in our battery tests? Well, by the time of its market release, DC2 reviewers should come to such conclusion yes. "enough" is not good enough, so the maker is on it to make it better than enough :thumbsup:


----------



## leaftye

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> ​i know what you mean. instead of posting iCharger-produced data we could post DC2-produced test results, logs and internal resistance measurements in our battery tests? Well, by the time of its market release, DC2 reviewers should come to such conclusion yes. "enough" is not good enough, so the maker is on it to make it better than enough :thumbsup:



I was thinking of including both sets of data so readers can compare the results so they can decide if it's to be trusted, or if the data is extremely accurate, it would validate my other tests. Anyhow, if that would help, then I'd be happy to do a little extra work to add those tests as one of the DC2 reviewers.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

*This just keeps getting better... *I'm starting to worry about the price. VP2 is very good general user general purpose charger VP4 looks really good but it looks like they dropped they voltage selection switch which seems crazy to me... that's a great feature on the VP2 and some of the other recent XTAR chargers. I wonder if it was too confusing for the general buyer as I do see lots of messages from people wondering what position the switch should be set to. 

OK how come no pictures yet???


----------



## leaftye

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

One more thing I'd like, and it's probably too late and expensive if this hasn't already been done, but I'd like some DEEP cutouts on the sides to make it easier to pull out the batteries. The Nitecore i4, Efest LUV V4 and Basen S2 aren't as deep as I'd like. The Opus BT-C3100 is okay, but even deeper would be better.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



leaftye said:


> but I'd like some DEEP cutouts on the sides to make it easier to pull out the batteries.



the cutouts at the sides are deep and nice, and all other dimensions generous anyway, the slots are long, and it is easy enough (trust me!) to remove and insert M1&M4 and or M2&M3 in a 4x26650 full bay configuration. photos of the device can't do justice to the physicality, feel and build quality which are without exaggeration amazing and really impressive.

1.5 years ago we set out for a dreamcharger not knowing what this could be in detail or conception and what kind of UI it could have. we looked at existing advanced chargers, Schulze, C9000, iCharger, Opus, Xtar, EBC-A, a.o. After 1 week the maker came up with a CAD drawing and proposed a simple yet effective UI. Over night the UI idea grew on me and then the day after i was convinced that this was it, the dreamcharger we were wishing for! 1.5yr later it's become reality and i *love* it.

i sound partial so hopefully someone else can share his/her own impressions of it. no one gone to ifa? :shrug:


----------



## djozz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

The kreisl still loves stretching the suspense ;-)
Question: does this charger use pulse charging, like the Opus, or does it use constant current? I remember that HKJ was not really happy with the high voltages that the batteries receive by pulse-charging.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

As _any other_ hobby charger or balance charger on today's market, it uses tru constant current, no PWM pulse charging as BT-C3100 or MH-C9000 do. The constant current charging is especially tru for LiIon charging. For NiMH charging, note that iCharger and C9000 (C9000 be short for _Maha Powerex MH-Whatalongname-C9000 WizardOne Charger-Analyzer_) interrupt the charging every other moment, I=0.0A for 0.5-2sec, intermittently, because that's a recommended effective or healthy way of charging NiMH's. With a fast updating DMM I was able to verify such behavior on iCharger and C9000. C9000 FAQ states it too:


C9000 FAQ said:


> Advanced Operations
> *I multiplied the charging time by the current. The resulting capacity is not the same as the capacity on the screen. Is the charger faulty? *​
> No. The charging current displayed on the screen does not include a brief rest period (a fraction of a second every two seconds). Therefore, the actual charging current is about 90% of the displayed value.​


​ So the DC2 uses a similar 'non-PWM tru constant current with intermittent stops'-charging method for NiMH's and one can see it with the PC Link software. Experts in the industry may question (in general) and argue _how often_ per minute the charging current should drop to zero amps and _how long_ the brief rest period should be, and after endless discussions they may never come to an agreement or compromise. Batteryuniversity, a book product written by CADEX to indirectly promote their own charger-analyzers, shuts up on this very topic. Point is, whatever the frequency and duration of the short rest periods should be, the firmware could be easily updated to reflect the most recent state of research and knowledge in this field.

What suspense? ( how am i doing? hehe ;-)


----------



## djozz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

You're doing very well 
Thanks for the clear answer.


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Dubois said:


>


click on pic 



_photo credit © 2006 Donna L. Watkins - Squirrel Diving Into Popcorn_​


----------



## shelm

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> As _any other_ hobby charger or balance charger on today's market, it uses tru constant current, no PWM pulse charging as BT-C3100 or MH-C9000 do.



There is this obscure battery technology from the :hahaha:*early 90's* called RAM, Rechargeable Alkaline Manganese dioxide cell chemistry by BTI Battery Technologies Inc Canada, as still seen on amazon in the licensed _iGo Green_ and _Pure Energy_ battery brands. Afaik the charging algorithm does not use constant current but a decreasing charge rate right off the start similar to the CV-phase of Li-Ion charging. The voltage may be held 1.65V constant if possible.

I don't believe that any of us (still) uses iGo Green or Pure Energy batteries. Heck even their websites and that of BTI are down. Hey wait, the EU distributor's is still up and running but the batteries products are not available anymore lol.

Does the new charger support this obsolete cylindrical batt chem? :nana:


----------



## _UPz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Ok, still no pictures? :mecry:


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



_UPz said:


> Ok, still no pictures? :mecry:


Now that I've seen the XTAR VP4 we need *Pics, Price, and Postal Delivery *for this one.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

And do we know if it charges D cells too?





StandardBattery said:


> Now that I've seen the XTAR VP4 we need *Pics, Price, and Postal Delivery *for this one.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



7histology said:


> And do we know if it charges D cells too?



I herewith guarantee that one could charge simultaneously for example:


Code:


M1: 1x18650
M2: 1xD (or 1x32650)
M3: 1x18650
M4: 1xD (or 1x32650)


In words: it is possible to charge up to *two D* nimh cells at a time without adapters. The remaining two slots can be filled with 18650's. Alternatively, it is possible to charge up to *two 32650* liion cells at a time without adapters and have the remaining two slots filled with 18650's. Depending on their actual diameters 26650 may fit next to D cell or 32650 cell. Another guaranteed working example:


Code:


M1: 1x32650 (or 1xD)
M2: 1x18650
M3: 1x26650
M4: 1x26650


DC2 photo(s) from IFA are posted on other folums, i have no photo credit sollie :ironic:

EDIT:
Since i don't have original Panasonic 26650's or Sanyo 32650's at home, i tested the battery fitment with D-cells (Ø32.99mm) and C-cells (Ø26.49mm) and am extremely pleased to report that the following configurations work 100% fine too:



Code:


M1: 1xD (or 1x33730)
M2: 1xC (or 1x26730)
M3: 1xC (or 1x26730)
M4: 1xD (or 1x33730)

[I]*preferred*[/I]


and also:


Code:


M1: 1xD (or 1x33730)
M2: 1xC (or 1x26730)
M3: 1xD (or 1x33730)
M4: 1xC (or 1x26730)

[I]*awkward lol*[/I]


When fully pressed down, the D cells would touch the C cells. However it is possible to lift/shift the D cells 0.5-1mm so that the D-C-adjacent cells do not touch each other anymore.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

So, with no pictures, I am getting confused ... so, just to be clear, this thread is referring to THIS charger reviewed by HKJ

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389732-Test-Review-of-Charger-Opus-BT-C3100-V2-1

RIGHT?


And available here

http://www.gearbest.com/chargers-batteries/pp_71595.html

also RIGHT?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

i am giving up :mecry:


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



7histology said:


> So, with no pictures, I am getting confused ... so, just to be clear, this thread is referring to THIS charger reviewed by HKJ
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389732-Test-Review-of-Charger-Opus-BT-C3100-V2-1
> 
> RIGHT?
> 
> 
> And available here
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/chargers-batteries/pp_71595.html
> 
> also RIGHT?


No this thread is discussing a new mystery charger.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



StandardBattery said:


> No this thread is discussing a new mystery charger.



Not that mysterious anymore, as can be seen on the German "taschenlampen-forum" it is from SKYRC and called MC3000

I would expect a price above $100


----------



## oKtosiTe

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



HKJ said:


> Not that mysterious anymore, as can be seen on the German "taschenlampen-forum" it is from SKYRC and called MC3000
> 
> I would expect a price above $100



I have to admit not getting it initially either, but I caught on a little bit quicker than some other members. 
Glad someone finally cleared that up once and for all. Kreisl: perhaps changing the original title might help.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



HKJ said:


> and called *MC3000*



for confusion purposes i'll continue




to call it *DC2 *when i write about it 




oKtosiTe said:


> Kreisl: Perhaps changing the original title might help.



oki agreed :thumbsup:


----------



## oKtosiTe

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> for confusion purposes i'll continue :devil: to call it *DC2 *when i write about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oki agreed :thumbsup:


That was quick. oo:


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Now I am confused - with the changed title it took me a while to find this thread again. Still, good to finally have specifics on maker and model. Seems like a visit to the German forum might be worthwhile.

Edit>> Wow - a photo at last! Looks nice. Big, but nice. It would be nice to see a group buy on this charger.


----------



## _UPz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



_UPz said:


> ... I have my own idea about it, but I'll wait to see if the folks visiting berlin IFA confirms my suspicions.



I was right with my own suspicions then :thumbsup:

SkyRC, being the original developers and manufacturers of the _iconic_ *Imax B6* will give us a great tool, I'm 100% confident.

Any link to TLF pics or something?

Cheers!


----------



## TweakMDS

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Where are we finding pics? May I suggest (or rather: request) a bit of a more informative update on the first post? Pictures, charts and specs usually draw some more people in; people who might have relevant questions or information ^^

As for price, not that interested in it. I already ditched my fair share of $10 - $30 chargers that have their issues... Quality components and good design come at a price. I've tinkered enough in electronics (actually did my first two years of university in electrical engineering @TUE) to know how to blow up electronics and set off the fire alarm 

Another thing; My MH-C9000 (nimh only) is amazing but whenever it's on, the LCD backlight is on and it's bright. If you charge batteries overnight that's annoying as hell. The Nitecore i4 v2 is even worse, with both blue and amber leds that appear to be brighter than a thousand suns, but that might be a subjective measurement based on how dark I prefer my bedroom to be. 

So a very important question: will this charger be able to charge in the dark? Or do I have to take out my black marker again?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Your request is noted. I am going to look for pics or photos, no problem! At some point i am gonna post a complete comparison table of parameter ranges between Opus DC1, iCharger, and Skyrc DC2. In the meantime please everybody feel free to ask questions, it seems that i am able to answer most of your questions 



TweakMDS said:


> So a very important question: will this charger be able to charge in the dark? Or do I have to take out my black marker again?


Lol 
Long-pressing the lower left button forwards to the General Settings menu, called SETUP. There one of the (few) items is called DISPLAY with the 5 reasonable options {OFF|Always On|1|3|5}min which refer to the duration of the background lighting. 
When i run my C9000 overnight, i cover the bright LCD with a postcard. And once i close my eyes, my brains see nothing but black :sleepy:


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



TweakMDS said:


> Where are we finding pics?



The photo I referred to was on the German flashlight forum - I just googled the SKYRC and the model number. Oddly enough, the photo didn't appear when I used the Google translate function, but did show up when looked at au naturel, so to speak. I don't think CPF rules allow cross posting to another forum.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Interesting. Bassed on their similar AA/AAA charger though it seems even this company has a few things to work on to make this the true dream charger. I guessing though their experience with that charger will go a longway towards making this one pretty fine at the starting gate.


----------



## leaftye

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



HKJ said:


> Not that mysterious anymore, as can be seen on the German "taschenlampen-forum" it is from SKYRC and called MC3000
> 
> I would expect a price above $100



That's what I would expect too based on their other prices, but hopefully somehow it's much lower.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



shelm said:


> Does the new charger support this obsolete cylindrical batt chem? :nana:


no, i go :green: is not supported. unless actual users do request it. then it would be easy enough i guess to add this obscure battery type in an updated firmware.


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Another day, another google search - and some more photos. This time from the excellent Spanish forum, foroLinternas . Look like snaps from the stand at IFA (but I could be wrong, I haven't read the thread).


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



StandardBattery said:


> their experience with that charger will go a longway towards making this one pretty fine at the starting gate.



there are some _obvious _improved exterior details e.g. *on the backside* the quality/noise of the cooling fan, its smart control (can be adjusted in general settings menu), the kickstand mechanism:






Above was a backside comparison with the Nietcore i4. The white scuffs and scratches on these old pics are from the 3D-printer model prototype. See now the backside comparison with the BT-C3100. Can you tell some difference?





Height comparison maha C9000, xtar XP4, nietcore i4, and (shorter) prototype:


----------



## Chloe

Thanks for the pictures! ^^ It looks a lot bigger than current bay chargers on the market. I wonder about the noise levels compared to Opus BT-C3100 since it also has an internal fan. 

SkyRC, I guessed right! (*´▽`*) It would be _very_ interesting to see how it performs in terms of accuracy beside some hobby chargers. 

Do you know if it has user-adjustable hysteresis control for the fan? Given so many different charging conditions I think it would be a nice feature. I wonder too, how friendly the UI is?

I admit I am a little disappointed to hear no PC link for Apple and Linux users. Do you know if support for these platforms is planned?


----------



## kreisl

Hello Chloe, you're asking the right questions, thanks for your interest! :wave:

I'll have 1 or 2 more of the old pics posted by tomorrow, they may serve as reference for now. The final production version is a bit longer and comes in a fully dark color scheme :huh:

While the internal fan of BT-C3100 sounded like a motor and the one of NC2500 like a high-pitched flyer, the MC3000 fan noise is much lower in pitch and volume. It is still very audible at full speed, say 4x(-1.0A) discharge, but i would call it a clear improvement. It is not as loud as iCharger's internal fan at 1x(-4.0A) discharge! The fan speed (=noise) varies with the internal temperature. At lower temps the fan rotates slower and rather silent.

I've seen firmware with user-adjustable fan control hysteresis in the general settings menu yes. Afaicr the default setting is automatic On at 40.1°C _internal_ temperature and automatic Off at 34.9°C.

The device is imho clearer to operate than a hobby charger. In the general settings menu, beginners can turn off the Advanced Menu of SPV (Slot Programming View) in order to hide some of the (unnecessary? ;=) advanced parameters in SPV. Since this basic operation mode hides default values, personally i prefer to operate the charger with "Advanced Menu: On" for full control and knowledge over all ~17  parameters and their respective options. Imho the UI is user-friendly and well-designed and an improvement over hobby chargers. And to me, it is much fun to operate! Or, you can operate the charger from your WinPC. That's even more user-friendly.

I don't know if support for Apple and Linux users is planned. iCharger's PC Link software (Logview/Logview Studio) is for WinPC only, so I sold my Linux and Apple and got an Android instead. Remote control via smartphone, Apple/Linux connectivity problem solved, so please don't be disappointed 

The topic of accuracy is taken seriously and constantly being addressed. Once we're getting closer to release date, i should be able to detail on it and present a comparison to dedicated hobby chargers and also BT-C3100. Stay tuned :thumbsup:


----------



## Dubois

Nice photos Kreisl, thanks. One question on the battery holder. I'm fed up trying to squeeze my longer 18650 cells into (and out of) my I4 charger - what are the sliders like on the MC3000? Will longer cells fit easily?


----------



## richardcpf

Looks good... I'm not a fan of mixed chemistry charging and fancy bluetooth and functionality though...

This company makes more than chargers, they also have bluetooth controlled watt-meter and led bulbs.

The display seems to be very detailed, showing chemistry, capacity, mode and current at the same time.



















I think this is just too much for some..


----------



## tatasal

Massively-sized...I love it, looks very authoritative. Best-looking multi-bay and chemistry charger so far. I'd like to own one, even just for its looks alone! ( I thought my C9000 was big )


----------



## kreisl

Dubois said:


> One question on the battery holder. I'm fed up trying to squeeze my longer 18650 cells into (and out of) my I4 charger - what are the sliders like on the MC3000? Will longer cells fit easily?



the sliders are thick, long and robust. really different from the standard fare, compare XP4:






or compare i4:










the sliders are built in such a way that, in theory, it would be possible to stack 2 cells (2xAA, 2x17650, or possibly 2x18650) and charge both in parallel in the same slot: thus one could charge 8xAA in the 4-bays of the charger! but this theoretical possibility was not intended by the maker and is not a recommended procedure at all, so don't even think about it!

as to the max. length of cells supported by the battery holder, batteries up to a length of 73.0mm fit. Protected Panasonic NCR18650B are 71mm long, they are a very comfortable fit. And as mentioned earlier, flat top batteries are no problem either.

In fact, with its secure stand and nice quality sliders it is possible to insert and remove 71mm-cells safely and comfortably single-handedly! oo:


----------



## Dubois

Thanks for that info Kreisl. Good to hear that it's easy to get cells in and out of the charger.


----------



## ChibiM

When will your review be ready and online? I assume it's already finished for 99% (knowing your testing data online)… also, will they sell only under SkyRC brand?

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk


----------



## kreisl

tatasal said:


> Massively-sized...I love it, looks very authoritative. Best-looking multi-bay and chemistry charger so far. I'd like to own one, even just for its looks alone! ( I thought my C9000 was big )



please note that the pics with the gray color scheme are old pics from the prototype testing model.













_charger model
__max dimensions W×H×L
__weight
__comments
_XTAR XP4
92.4 × 34.6 × 125.0 mm³
170g unit + 149 mains adapter
tiny. heat issues.
Nitcore i4 V2
96.3 × 36.6 × 136.5 mm³
160g unit + 67g mains cable
light. cheap. it is!
Opus BT-C3100
100.1 × 42.9 × 150.0 mm³
230g unit + 194g mains adapter
likable product, no doubt.
Maha MH-C9000
109.8 × 41.7 × 165.0 mm³
364g unit + 153g mains adapter
2006 release. big.
Skyrc MC3000
124.0 × 68.8 × 200.3 mm³
601g unit + 215g PSU + 67g mains cable
whopper. 2014 release?


----------



## N8N

Maybe this has been mentioned and I missed it, but if this unit uses a separate power supply does that mean that it runs on 12VDC and therefore could also be used with a cig lighter adapter if necessary?


----------



## kreisl

N8N said:


> if this unit uses a separate power supply does that mean that it runs on 12VDC and therefore could also be used with a cig lighter adapter



Like any good hobby charger the device measures and displays your momentary input voltage which has to be in the wide range between 11-18V, thus the charger is able to accept a whole variety of PSU adapters from your household (12V, 15V, 18V, whatever you got!). In addition, the lower admissible limit can be set by the user, for example if you wanted to protect the health of your power source by limiting/matching the min. admissible charger input ("> 12.0V") to the adapter output specs ("12VDC").

So yes, if necessary, the charger would be able to run off a car cig lighter adapter (18Vmax > 12VDC > 11Vmin). You may need a plug converter and your generated electrical load should be within reason.

I've got the SK-200008 PSU (20$ retail value) which works harmonically with the test unit. Again, it is unclear if such a (similar) PSU is supplied with the MC3000 retail shipping unit.


----------



## Dubois

kreisl said:


> You may need a plug converter and your generated electrical load should be within reason.
> 
> I've got the SK-200008 PSU (20$ retail value) which works harmonically with the test unit. Again, it is unclear if such a (similar) PSU is supplied with the MC3000 retail shipping unit.



Any idea what type of plug is needed on the charger for the power supply? Is it a mini usb, or one of the round types typically found on (old) kit?


----------



## HKJ

Dubois said:


> Any idea what type of plug is needed on the charger for the power supply? Is it a mini usb, or one of the round types typically found on (old) kit?



Probably the round type that is used on all chargers that need some power or a custom connector.
USB would only work if it is the new type with high power capabilities, but it is a bit early for that.


----------



## StandardBattery

HKJ said:


> Probably the round type that is used on all chargers that need some power or a custom connector.
> USB would only work if it is the new type with high power capabilities, but it is a bit early for that.



I sure hope it is the standard round type, or they can have two; the standard one, and a custom one for better connections with high amperage source.


----------



## Dubois

Thanks HKJ, that's what I'm hoping. I thought I had a spare power supply that might work, but on checking, it's only 10v and 2.8A, so probably no good anyway.


----------



## kreisl

ChibiM said:


> When will your review be ready and online? (...) will they sell only under SkyRC brand?


Hello ChibiM, when one gathers all my posts from this thread, it'd pretty much read as a review, wouldn't it hehe :goodjob:

It was true that the original NC2500 got licensed to TechnoTrade "BC2500" and AccuCell "A-ULTRA", both Geman or Austrian trade companies afaik who also distributed the original BC700 under their own label technoline, but it is afaik unclear at this point if such companies are after a similar coup with the original MC3000.

Erm .. anyone worried about the price?


----------



## shelm

richardcpf said:


> The display seems to be very detailed, showing chemistry, capacity, mode and current at the same time.



i can poorly see anything. 

why is the LCD background lighting off, what's wrong?


----------



## flashflood

I want this so hard. Google turns up basically nothing. Argh...


----------



## kreisl

shelm said:


> why is the LCD background lighting off


here a pic with background lighting turned on, i call the screen "TOV" for Total Overview:






When you don't play with the buttons and leave the device under normal operation, the screen automatically returns to the above screen after a while of user's inactivity. As you can see, TOV shows in tabular format the most essential quantities about the 4 slots: voltage, current, capacity, and also indicators of the ongoing MODE and program routine such as charging, discharging, resting, or trickling (Do you like trickle charge? :huh. For example, slot#4 shows the symbol for the (NOT COMPLETED) REFRESH mode and the fact that it says "0.40", that is 400mA momentary charge rate, instead of "-0.40" tells us that the slot is in the charging routine, and not the discharging routine, of the REFRESH MODE. 

When REFRESH has completed, the double arrow char ↕ gets inverted, i.e. its background becomes black:



. There are additional indicators of mode completion such as a loud beeping melody (can be turned off in General Settings) and the SNB LED (Slot Number Button LED) which turns from full red to full green. A full green LED means that 'officially' the MODE has completed but that the slot program continues to be observant for eventual further actions, such as trickle charging or restarting the last program routine of the MODE, here: CHARGE, once the "offline voltage" has dropped under the user-set threshold, etc.

In TOV, clicking one of the lower buttons forwards you to the DDV (Diagram Drawing View) where the logged voltage is being graphed in real-time . DDV could graph further quantities of interest such as cell temperature i guess. Let me know if you want a photo of DDV.

For more details of the slot under operation such as target voltage, elapsed time, battery temperature, CYCLE history, etc., the user needs to click on the SNB's to get forwarded to SOV (Slot Operation View) where the list of details can be scrolled through. On the iCharger, power and energy is only displayed on the PC screen through the PC Link software LogView/LogView Studio.
I have never seen a charger before which displays POWER (Watts) and ENERGY (mWh) on the LCD besides counting the CAPACITY (mAh).


----------



## StandardBattery

That looks pretty good. The mAh value though of 6 for slot 1 does not make sense to me. What am i missing?

Seems like trickle charge should be optional and the regular programs should not automatically enter triggle charge after completing a charge for Li. If triggle is just another mode that you have to select it's good. Hopefully it would always run regardless of intial voltage so may be able to gently revive over discharged cells.


----------



## StandardBattery

CURR label would be better as "I mA". There is enough display place to display all values in mA so. 1000 and 400 rather than the somewhat messy display with space and period in that column. I prefer clean display with no separators.


----------



## SubLGT

flashflood said:


> I want this so hard. Google turns up basically nothing. Argh...



Just wait one week. I'm sure the counterfeiters are already hard at work cloning this thing, as they did with the SKYRC Imax B6 charger.:devil:


----------



## kreisl

SubLGT said:


> counterfeiters are already hard at work cloning this thing, as they did with the SKYRC Imax B6 charger


there is this popular thread on RCGroups which is about h*cking the Imax B6 firmware or something. if they manage to h*ck the MC3000 firmware too then it would be easy enough to change the "CURR" label in TOV, convert the amps to miliamps, and change the spacing. however 1) that's a matter of taste and i do like and prefer the TOV as it is for various reasons, 2) no there is imo not enough space to change the spacing, the 128×64 pixels LCD uses a standard font which results in 5 rows à 18 chars and the max mAh is 10000mAh which already consumes 6 chars (5 digits plus 1 space to the next column), and 3) we can agree that at this stage such cosmetic/typographical changes are less urgent and could be changed (and i'll vote against it :devil in future firmware updates, or 4) a h*cker could customize the looks of TOV to his/her likings.

triggle sic is not a MODE but a program routine and it can be turned OFF in every PROGRAM. The TRICKLE parameter exists for NiMH/NiCd batteries and also, in altered form, for Lithium-chemistries called Zero Trickle Charge (ZTC) which is nothing but an "infinite" CV-phase with ever decreasing current, limes zero.

wow, you guys have some good questions. i need to check if i have overlooked any ..


----------



## StandardBattery

Trickle for Li seems like a bad idea. If you can adjust the cuttoff current for CV that would be better, and maybe have a minimum above zero. 

Does the charger have a "reset to factory defaults" option? I think it s going to need it. 

How about user program settings/memories for a couple different combinations of settings. Maybe that can be done in the App?


----------



## kreisl

StandardBattery said:


> Trickle for Li seems like a bad idea. If you can adjust the cuttoff current for CV that would be better, and maybe have a minimum above zero.
> 
> Does the charger have a "reset to factory defaults" option? I think it s going to need it.
> 
> How about user program settings/memories for a couple different combinations of settings. Maybe that can be done in the App?



Yes, trickle for Li is not the best idea in the sense that it may be bad for the cell health in the long run. It may. The seeming advantage of Zero Trickle Charge is twofold: 1) you 'produce' a cell with *stable *constant target voltage, be it 3.800V for storage or 4.200V for standard charge, which is just beautiful!, 2) you can do so with any old abused Li battery. This charger proves that it is possible to make any old abused Li battery reach the 4.20V target and stay at that voltage level "without self-discharge".

The cuttoff sic current for CV is controlled in SPV (Slot Programming View) thru the parameter TERMINATION. The present options are {Zero|10|20|…|290|300}mA, where "Zero" stands for the mentioned Zero Trickle Charge. There may even be an option "OFF" which omits the entire CV-phase altogether; this would be needed if the user wanted to simulate a "step charge", for example for FAST CYCLING of 4.35V Samsungs.

So the minimum fixed cutoff current (or termination current) is 0.01A, 10mA.

Yes, in the General Settings menu there is one option called FACTORY RESET. Upgrading the firmware in a foolproof procedure actually requires the user to make use of this option anyway. And in the UI there is another way of resetting/canceling/discarding the changes in a program, so no worries 

User program settings/memories is in fact the whole idea which the UI (user interface) is based upon. Saving program settings is known from balancing hobby chargers iCharger, Imax B6, Turnigy, but we hardly make use of this feature, do we? Currently, MC3000 reserves memory for 20 predefined user programs (PUP): PROGRAM[01|02|…|19|20]. These are global programs and valid in any slot. When you're in SPV of say #3 (=short for "slot number 3"), you simply click on the < >-buttons to change the program number and that's it, you're ready to go! And when you want to change parameters/options of the chosen program say PROGRAM[18], then you'd click (=short-press) on ENTER and get access to them, edit the entries, and a long-press on ENTER would start the program with your changes. In short, it is much(!) easier and *really fun* to change a PUP on the MC3000 than on a common hobby charger, believe me.

App, you mean smartphone? We'll see how much of the device full functionality can be accessed and controlled through smartphone app. Probably less than through a full-fledged PC Link software. Cut them some slack if the initial versions of the smartphone app 1.0 and the PC Link software 1.0 are functional but very simplistic . Development of complex software applications can take ages, think of Win3.11, Win95, Win98, Win98SE.


----------



## Dubois

I have a question about the Refresh Mode on the MC3000 - how is this defined? 

On the BT-C3100, for example, I'm confused about the meaning of Test Mode and Refresh Mode and both are different from my BC700 Refresh Mode.


----------



## kreisl

Dubois said:


> I have a question about the Refresh Mode on the MC3000 - how is this defined?
> 
> On the BT-C3100, for example, I'm confused about the meaning of Test Mode and Refresh Mode and both are different from my BC700 Refresh Mode.


Using mostly the WWW for gathering the following unconfirmed info, please correct me if some details are wlong:

BT-C3100 so-called "REFRESH MODE":
discharge - no rest - full charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - full charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *D* > nR >* C* > nR > *D *> nR > *C *> nR > *D *> nR > *C*, that is *3 *cycles.

BT-C3100 so-called "TEST MODE":
charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *C *> nR > *D *> nR > *C*

BC700 so-called "REFRESH MODE":
discharge - no rest - full charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - full charge - … - full discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *D *> nR > *C *> nR > *D *> nR > *C *> … > *D *> nR > *C*, up to *20 *cycles. 

BC700 so-called "TEST MODE":
charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *C *> nR > *D *> nR > *C*.

NC1000 so-called "REFRESH MODE":
discharge - no rest - full charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - full charge - … - full discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *D *> nR > *C *> nR > *D *> nR > *C *> … > *D *> nR > *C*, up to *unlimited *cycles.

NC1000 so-called "TEST MODE":
charge - no rest - final full discharge, 
or short: *C *> nR > *D*.

NC2500 so-called "REFRESH MODE":
charge - 1hr rest - full discharge - 1hr rest - final full charge,
or short: *C *> 1hr > *D *> 1hr > *C*.

C9000 so-called "REFRESH & ANALYZE MODE":
charge - 2hr "rest" - full discharge - 1hr rest - final full charge,
or short: *C *> 2hr > *D *> 1hr > *C*.

Charge Manager so-called "CHECK MODE":
discharge - no rest - full charge,
or short: *D *> nR > *C*.

Charge Manager so-called "CYCLE MODE":
charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *C *> nR > *D *> nR > *C*.

Charge Manager so-called "ALIVE MODE":
charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - full charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *C *> nR > *D *> nR > *C*> nR > *D *> nR > *C*.

Akkumaster C5 distinguishes between _service pause_ and _cycle pause_, which i find interesting. The so-called "DISCHARGE-CHARGE MODE":
discharge - _service pause_ - final full charge, 
or short: *D *> R > *C*.

Accumaster C5 so-called "CHARGE-DISCHARGE-CHARGE MODE":
charge - _service pause_ - full discharge - _service pause _- final full charge, 
or short: *C *> R > *D *> R > *C*.

Accumaster C5 so-called "FORMING MODE":
discharge - no rest(?) - full charge - no rest - full discharge - no rest - full charge - … - full discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *D *> nR(?) > *C *> nR > *D *> nR > *C *> … > *D *> nR > *C*, up to *20 *cycles.

ALC 8500-2 Expert (discontinued?) so-called "DISCHARGE/CHARGE MODE":
discharge - no rest - final full charge, 
or short: *D *> nR > *C*.

ALC 8500-2 Expert so-called "TEST MODE":
charge - _delay _- full discharge - _delay _- final full charge, 
or short: *C *> R > *D *> R > *C*.

ALC 8500-2 Expert so-called "REFRESH MODE":
discharge _- delay -_ full charge _- delay -_ full discharge _- delay -_ full charge _- delay -_ full discharge _- delay -_ final full charge, 
or short: *D* > R >* C* > R > *D *> R > *C *> R > *D *> R > *C*, that is *3 *cycles.

ALC 8500-2 Expert so-called "FORMING MODE":
charge _- delay -_ full discharge _- delay -_ full charge _- … -_ full discharge _- delay -_ final full charge,
or short: *C *> R > *D *> R > *C *> … > *D *> R > *C*, up to *N *cycles.

ALC 8500-2 Expert so-called "CYCLE MODE":
charge _- delay -_ full discharge _- delay -_ full charge _- … -_ full discharge _- delay -_ final full charge,
or short: *C *> R > *D *> R > *C *> … > *D *> R > *C*, up to *unlimited *cycles.





Every maker of charger-analyzers (BC700, NC1000, NC2500, C3100, C9000, a.o.) seems to have his own notion of what a REFRESH *and or* a TEST MODE should do, and these similar modes share that they are nothing but special cases of a CYCLE program, would you agree? With the MC3000 the definition of its so-called "REFRESH" mode for both NiMH and LiIon chemistries becomes clear when you're in SPV (Slot Programming View) and look at the parameters CYCLE MODE, NO.OF CYCLES and REST TIME. This way one does not need to look into the operator's manual to learn what  REFRESH on the MC3000 means: *C*>*D*>*C* pattern (fixed), with *1 *cycle (fixed), and rest time as you wish from {0|1|2|…|239|240}min. And if you wanted to emulate BT-C3100's TEST MODE, you would run MC3000's CYCLE MODE (instead of REFRESH MODE), pick the pattern *C*>*D* from the array of cycling options, set NO.OF CYCLES to 1, and REST TIME to 0min. 

It is interesting that the Maha employs a 2hr "rest" after CHARGE. That's because it continues to charge the battery with a top-off current. Even such Maha-behavior could be emulated with MC3000's parameters and options by adjusting the SPV parameters TARGET VOLT and TRICKLE CHARGE. Well, except for the different rest times. 

But wait. If you really wtf needed different rest times between charging↔discharging routines, then you could set 2 different CYCLE programs (PROGRAM[01], PROGRAM[02]) and run them in immediate sequence:
*C *> 2hr > *D *> 1hr > *C* 
= CYCLE pattern *C*>*D *(w/ 2hr rest and TRICKLE in between) *+* CYCLE pattern *D*>*C* (w/ 1hr rest in between).

Q. How does one run several PUP's in immediate sequence or even loop them?
A. What's a PUP?

Q. A PUP is krisel's short for _predefined user programs_ PROGRAM[01], PROGRAM[02], etc. So how?
A. Either manually, or possibly also through a more sophisticated version of the PC Link software in future.

Q. I see. Thanks you.
A. That was not a question, try again, duh.


----------



## Dubois

Great work, Kreisl, thank you very much for your efforts here. The MC3000 indeed looks like a very nice bit of kit. Now my only worry will be the price of the thing. Let's hope HKJ's estimated $100 is close to the mark. 

I don't suppose you have word of a price for this yet,do you Kreisl?

Thanks again - why google when you can ask questions here?


----------



## _UPz

Dubois said:


> why google when you can ask questions here?









What is the resolution of the voltage reading, how many decimals? 
I mean how accurate is the voltage reading compared to a multimeter?

Thanks kreisl!


----------



## kreisl

Dubois said:


> Now my only worry will be the price of the thing. Let's hope HKJ's estimated $100 is close to the mark.
> 
> I don't suppose you have word of a price for this yet


Since there is no MAP, you shouldn't be too worried about your final personal price in the EU. Lately GB and BG have been generous with codes and NKON.nl is a specialized importer with relevant selection and fair EUR-pricing, HobbyKing has a EU-warehouse too. A forum group buy could be organized by any interested party or individual i guess, maybe even by the manufacturer with a promotional special.

I can't comment on HKJ's guesstimate because i don't know whether the number is after or before code; imho a full package with included PSU adapter would be 100% worth it either way
​Today i updated the firmware _online _thru the PC Link software UI with a click of a button. Lol so easy. And phun!


----------



## digiowl

So the led next to the USB seems to be marked "power bank". What is the limitations on its use? Given the 2.1A marking on the port i am guessing it needs something more potent than your typical AAs.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



StandardBattery said:


> 2. Charge Rate: 100mA - 3A (Lithium) (2A NiMH) (subject to powersupply) *****


In the new fw (firmware) the minimum charge rate for both Li- and Ni- chemistries has been decreased for our convenience. Same as iCharger's, it is now 0.05A (50mA) instead of 100mA. Max charge rate for NiMH is still 4×2.00A and could possibly increased in future i guess(?), if demanded by the community. 

Just note that at such low charge rates some _full battery detection_-algorithm like the default PEAK SENS -dU/dt for NiMH may fail, so other simultaneous algorithms would have to take over such as XTAR's proposed "0△V"-method or the cell temperature gradient dT/dt or or or. For NiMH the parameter TARGET VOLT may act as cut-off voltage similar to Maha's 1.48V-termination method based on voltage. And if all these methods fail, there is always the security net (per each PUP) with the parameters CAPACITY and CUT TIME to restrict max. allowable charge intake and program runtime.

Low current charging makes sense for old abused NiMH batteries with low capacity and high internal resistance because of the voltage drag, or for exotically small LiIon batteries such as 10*18*0 or 10*11*0 which the flashlight maker recommends charging with 50mA rate (during the CC-phase). For a 18mm short cell to fit in a slot of MC3000, one would need something (a wire/cable/spring/block/adapter) to bridge the ~12mm air gap because the distance between the slot +- metal contacts is ~30mm.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Anything else of note in the firmware update? Love that firmware updates are now available on some chargers. How about a semi firm delivery date for US availability?

You know what would be really cool... a solar mode... connect the input directly to a solar panel, or through a small solar 12V/14V/18V regulator, and ensure that the charger starts and stops the current programs as the voltage drops out and resumes from the input. To me a this would be so great. It is hard to find a good proper charger that is really solar-panel compatible.


----------



## kreisl

StandardBattery said:


> I sure hope it is the standard round type, or they can have two; the standard one, and a custom one for better connections with high amperage source.





StandardBattery said:


> connect the input directly to a solar panel, or through a small solar 12V/14V/18V regulator, and ensure that the charger starts and stops the current programs as the voltage drops out and resumes from the input.



the device has only 1 power input interface, it's located at the front and is of the standard round type. here an old pic:






We'll see what the exact dimensions of the socket/plug are going to be in the final production version.

Resuming solar operation when the input voltage is back again over 11V .. i see, very fancy. the other night i was dreaming of playing games on the LCD because it would be very possible to program such a thing, LCD has the identical screen resolution as in the linked video. Now you tell me whose idea is fancier hehe 

Seriously, the maker follows this thread and all suggestions will be noted, thank you for the interesting idea!


----------



## SubLGT

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



StandardBattery said:


> ……………... How about a semi firm delivery date for US availability?……………..



Too bad SkyRC does not have an authorized distribution channel in the USA. That makes warranty returns a bit of a hassle.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



SubLGT said:


> Too bad SkyRC does not have an authorized distribution channel in the USA. That makes warranty returns a bit of a hassle.


Ya, I suspect that we may be stuck with that unless they work out a re-branding of the device with someone who has US distribution. I think they might be able to find distribution or a branding opportunity if they are interested. This is a niche item still not many companies want to design and manufacture their own competing product. There are a few sellers of a few of their products on Amazon, so at least if it's DOA replacement would be easy. I hate the hassels of warranty stuff so I try to buy stuff that won't need it. I hope this will be such a device.


----------



## kreisl

_UPz said:


> What is the resolution of the voltage reading, how many decimals?
> I mean how accurate is the voltage reading compared to a multimeter?


don UPz the LCD displays all voltages with 2 decimals and when the user needs to enter voltage numbers, see table below for Lithium chemistry examples, the increments are always +0.01V. however, internally the machine operates with higher resolution as can be seen from the PC link software which displays the voltage with 3 decimals. iCharger operates internally with 3 decimals too yet it produces staircase-shaped non-smooth voltage graphs for both NiMH and LiIon batteries, see dampfakkus, leaftye's or my own comparison against a UT61E multimeter, which proves that iCharger/Turnigy does not measure voltage accurately enough for a smooth graph such as HKJ's measurements. HKJ once told me that he does not use iCharger for his battery reviews because it is not accurate enough. Looking at iCharger voltage graphs, logged with LogView PC Link software, i can understand him now. So what about MC3000? Well in all fairness, at this point i cannot claim that MC3000 voltage graphs look better, i.e. smoother, non-staircase shaped, than iCharger voltage graphs because there is no way yet to zoom in the graph or export the 1Hz logged data to Excel for better visual inspection: the present version of MC3000 PC Link software is rather simplistic 

Compared to a multimeter reading with 3 decimals, the accuracy of the MC3000 voltage reading is very high. The average difference on my unit is ±0.005V before recalibration of the 4 slots. Let's not forget that my 22000 counts DMM has its own tolerance of "±(0.1%+2)" at 2Hz between 2.200V-22.000V matching the 3-decimal resolution of MC3000 for batteries in that voltage range. Sounds complicated? It's not. Basically i am saying that the PC Link software reading matches very well my digital multimeter reading, typically within 3-5mV per slot. My slot#4 is off by ~0.011V, so i plan to recalibrate it.



StandardBattery said:


> Anything else of note in the firmware update? Love that firmware updates are now available on some chargers.


Most notable maybe the logical revision of permissible voltage ranges to avoid unnecessary overlapping. With MC3000 it is now possible to 'produce' LiIon cells with any stable voltage between 2.50-4.25V with 1 or 2 program steps. With my iCharger, even though it has overlapping ranges and a very generous DISCHARGE cut-off range see below, i cannot do so for 2 reasons.


*MC3000* latest fw
*iCharger* 106B+ fw v3.14*LiIon* CHARGE target voltage{4.00|4.01|…|4.24|4.25}V
Lilo U LiPo {3.90|3.91|…|4.29|4.30}VLiIon CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|3.98|3.99|…|4.17|4.18}V
N/ALiIon STORAGE voltage{3.65|3.66|…|3.99|4.00}V
Lilo {3.75V}, LiPo {3.85V} fixedLiIon DISCHARGE cut-off{2.50|2.51|…|3.64|3.65}VLilo U LiPo {2.50|2.51|…|4.19|4.20}V*LiIo4.35* CHARGE target voltage{4.10|4.11|…|4.39|4.40}VN/ALiIo4.35 CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|4.08|4.09|…|4.32|4.33}V
N/ALiIo4.35 STORAGE voltage{3.75|3.76|…|4.09|4.10}VN/ALiIo4.35 DISCHARGE cut-off{2.65|2.66|…|3.74|3.75}VN/A*LiFe* CHARGE target voltage{3.40|3.41|…|3.64|3.65}V
{3.40|3.41|…|3.89|3.90}VLiFe CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|3.38|3.39|…|3.57|3.58}V
N/ALiFe STORAGE voltage{3.15|3.16|…|3.39|3.40}V{3.30V} fixedLiFe DISCHARGE cut-off{2.00|2.01|…|3.14|3.15}V{2.00|2.01|…|3.59|3.60}V

Q. Hey man, why do you want to produce cells with stable 3.60V offline voltage?
A. Why not? It's fun to test the technical possibilities of the new product.

Q. I meant, for which real purpose does someone need such technical possibility?
A. Same thing as buying more shoes, handbags, flashlights or chargers than one really needs.

Q. And what's that?
A. Joy and satisfaction. No kidding.


----------



## Mr Floppy

Chloe said:


> I admit I am a little disappointed to hear no PC link for Apple and Linux users. Do you know if support for these platforms is planned?



Given the history of the Imax B6, it may be that the PC-Link port is not a USB port but a Serial TTL port. They did that with the Imax B6, you sort of had to hack a mini USB cable and connect it up to a TTL USB board. Then any terminal program will work ... as long has someone has reverse engineered the protocol. Certainly works under linux for the Turnigy Accucell 6, which is a clone of these *6 chargers. 

Given that it works with LogView, which is pretty old, I think reading the data isn't a problem (unless this was a specific version for SkyRC).


----------



## kreisl

Mr Floppy said:


> Given the history of the Imax B6, it may be that the PC-Link port is not a USB port but a Serial TTL port. They did that with the Imax B6, you sort of had to hack a mini USB cable and connect it up to a TTL USB board. Then any terminal program will work ... as long has someone has reverse engineered the protocol. Certainly works under linux for the Turnigy Accucell 6, which is a clone of these *6 chargers.
> 
> Given that it works with LogView, which is pretty old, I think reading the data isn't a problem (unless this was a specific version for SkyRC).


There is a brand new software called LogView Studio (LVS) and it is thinkable that it could support the new Skyrc charger in future fingers crossed.

Interestingly, i can't remember having installed any kind of driver on my Winxp PC: connect the USB cable to PC, then launch the PC Link software, and it states "USB connected" right away and everything is ready to go.

How can i find out if the connection is a "Serial TTL port"/"TTL USB board"?


----------



## Chloe

kreisl said:


> the device has only 1 power input interface, it's located at the front and is of the standard round type. here an old pic:



Why is the power socket at the front? It seems strange placement. >.< Is it really cramped inside? (I am wondering more about thermals and heatsinking, if it can charge with so much current). 

I like that it has wide input voltage range. 

About the rest cycle. This is a really nice feature for capacity testing Li-ion. What kind of drain is there on cells in rest mode? Will a trickle charge be needed? (I imagine a minimum 1hr rest). 

I also saw you mentioned needing to recalibrate the fourth slot. How exactly is this done (do you use a reference voltage?). Will this be required periodically?


----------



## kreisl

sollie my Engrish hh. with "front" i didn't mean the top side where the logo is but the location where most chargers have the adapter socket see i4, d4, xp4, c3100, c9000, nc2500, bc700, etc, so nothing strange about the placement ^^

Dimensions are generous outside and inside also because of the high currents and thermals, yet the product had to keep a reasonably compact size. As you know, 1-channel hobby chargers such as Imax B6 or iCharger do employ their own metal chassis most effectively for heat sinking and heat dispersion to the environment in addition to 1 big loud cooling fan mounted on cooling fins similar to a PC CPU cooler. For obvious reasons a 4-bay battery charger should not be made out of metal and in fact i don't know of any 4-bay charger which comes in a full metal jacket construction. So apart from the ventilation fan for heat convection, heat sinking is limited to _internal _metal chunks as done in the MC3000. There is much room left for your own expensive metal heat sink _extensions_ and i would believe that a small handful of tinkerers will consider exactly this. So nah it's not cramped inside. 

rest cycle, rest mode, erh. 
The_ rest routine _has no drain on the cells, the multimeter reads "0.000A", none of a concern. Trickle charge is never needed with good quality batteries unless you want get the max out of your cell for testing purposes. In §7.3.2 of the 3rd edition of IEC 61951-2 published in 2011 the international committee recommends a rest time of "not less than 1 h and not more than 4 h" at 20°C for the so-called "standard discharge" of NiMH cells at 20°C room temperature. For LiIon cells the 2nd edition of IEC 61960 published in 2011 would apply. It states similar things for the standard discharge and rest times.

Recalibration of the slots is done through the firmware in a hidden menu. No tweaking of any potentiometers on the PCB, as known from multimeter recalibrations. The process is simple and straight-forward and will be explained in detail in future. I don't know how often recalibration will be required, it may depend on various factors and thus vary from user to user. My digital multimeter is 3 years old and i never felt a requirement to recalibrate it. If my multimeter is un-recalibrated, then it makes little sense to recalibrate the charger with it, does it?


----------



## Mr Floppy

kreisl said:


> How can i find out if the connection is a "Serial TTL port"/"TTL USB board"?



I don't normally use windows but under device manger -> ports, should be something like COM4 etc. Mind you, I think they all need drivers. Maybe it talks that USB-USB bridge file transfer thing that people sold as PC-Link cables. Thought it was rather propriety though and you would need to build that host-to-host into the machine.


----------



## StandardBattery

kreisl said:


> ....For obvious reasons a 4-bay battery charger should not be made out of metal ....


not obvious to me... aluminum does not weight that much; big heat sinks are pretty light ... at least they could have a nice heat-sink like the RF radios or good transistor amps. If it needs to handle the heat it's either going to have a lot of surface area interms of volume, or it's going to have a nice heat sink so it have surface area for cooling in less volume. We're not taking about charging with 10 Amps even here, sure 8 might be beautiful, but if they did 4 or 6 with no fan and a cool 25-30deg charge that would make a statement. I think they just need to work with someone use to making power amps and they could get something better than plastic and metal plate. They need to look at the form factor too and get rid of any components under the battery bays. elongate the charger, or better, raise the height of the back, no two ways around it it's going to be bigger than a BT-700. The C9000 has shown they make the right tradfeoffs with size for charge capacity and heat dissipation. Different designs need to be used to set a new standard in performance and capacity.


----------



## kreisl

Mr Floppy said:


> I don't normally use windows but under device manger -> ports, should be something like COM4 etc. Mind you, I think they all need drivers. Maybe it talks that USB-USB bridge file transfer thing that people sold as PC-Link cables.


Of course any external hardware uses an installed driver for communication with the PC. And for my EBC-A charger-analyzer i had to install such a Serial-TTL-to-USB driver so that it would work with the EBC-A PC Link software. But i meant that on a clean fresh Winxp installation i don't need to install _extra _drivers for the MC3000 device recognition and the working with its simplistic PC Link software. It's plug and play .. but i'll check on that with an acronis image for 100% reconfirmation. The USB cable which i use for connecting is taken from of a tomcar navigation and i don't know sic if the retail shipping package will contain a USB cable:




The iCharger comes packaged with a free USB cable, the new Imax B6mini which i own too  does not. After restoring the acronis hdd image I'll check the xp device manager to see what it says.

Q. How neat, EBC-A wiv EB tester software, never heard of before!! Any good, works very Chinese, does it?
A. Meh? I beg your pardon?

Q. I can hardly find English doc on the device or software, pretty much all is in Chinese. Yah, you too?
A. Me.. me what?? — O'gimme a break dude. Tss. (I am not sure if i understood your question correctly though.) *sigh*

Q. Don't you think that you're talking to a m***n, i am not!
A. Oh i see. Erh. No i don't. (I am not sure if you understood my answer correctly though, hehe.)


----------



## Dubois

Any news?


----------



## shelm

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> no, i go :green: is not supported. unless actual users do request it. then it would be easy enough i guess to add this obscure battery type in an updated firmware.



Could you add support for analyzing Alkaline batteries as separate battery type?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



shelm said:


> Could you add support for analyzing Alkaline batteries as separate battery type?



What exactly do you have in mind? After the analysis, i.e. a controlled discharging, your primary battery will be used up, depleted, and dead. Money wasted only for getting some graph and end values (mAh, Wh, runtime)? :shrug:

On the WWW i've seen battery reviewers who tested primary CR123A batteries. The discharge algorithm does not differ from RCR123, it is constant current or "D-CC" (discharge at constant current), you can use DISCHARGE mode of BATT TYPE LiIon for them i guess, shouldn't make any difference. The discharge algorithm for Energizer Lithium is D-CC too, you can use DISCHARGE mode of BATT TYPE NiMH for them, i don't mind 

Alkalines cannot hold constant current draw: if you ever tried to discharge a good quality Alkaline AA in MH-C9000 with 100mA, you'd know. All one gets is silly low mAh-numbers at the program end, while the battery is still not depleted. It is actually quite a challenge to discharge an Alkaline by more than half of its capacity with the Maha.

What's the proposed discharge algorithm then? For charging RAM the charger should use C-CV (charge at constant voltage, with no CC-phase), I am guessing that for discharging Alkalines (and RAM's) the charger should use D-CV (discharge at constant voltage, also without any CC-phase) hence?

Tbh with the present set of program parameters it would not be possible to simulate D-CV. The STORAGE mode of BATT TYPE LiIon employs D-CC-CV when the cell voltage is higher than the storage TARGET VOLT, which is an improvement over iCharger's D-CC algorithm. But i don't see any means of striking out the CC in its D-CC-CV algorithm.

I am guessing you're right with the assumption that for Alkaline-DISCHARGE-support and RAM-CHARGE-support one would need to create a new BATT TYPE in the firmware which does charging with C-CV and discharging with D-CV, both without CC-phases.

Q. You haven't answered the question yet, have you? What about it?
A. No.

Q. No, no what?
A. No i haven't answered the question yet. Point is, Alkalines leak, are waste to the environment and ultimately bad for our health.

Q. That was very helpful info. *sigh*
A. I am pleasure for the help! *wink*


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

I've got to say that analysis of alkaline batteries is of no interest to me whatsoever. Although I do sometimes use lithium primaries, I would never waste them by running an analysis in a charger.

Seems like a strange request.


----------



## oKtosiTe

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> [...] No i haven't answered the question yet. Point is, Alkalines leak, are waste to the environment and ultimately bad for our health.


*Boom!* Alkaline-slam!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> I am guessing that for discharging Alkalines (and RAM's) the charger should use D-CV (discharge at constant voltage, also without any CC-phase) hence?


I found a website which lists typical capacities for single Alkaline batts:
http://www.allaboutbatteries.com/Energy-tables.html

I am test discharging now some cheap Alkalines from the supermarket with the NiMH DISCHARGE mode and tweaked DISCHARGE REDUCE parameter and the lowest possible threshold voltage in this firmware version. In detail, the battery is discharged with constant 500mA down to 0.20V, then the current draw is automatically reduced very slowly, depending on the behavior of the cell, down to ~0mA while the voltage is held constant at 0.20V. The battery will be full depleted when in theory the offline voltage stays constant at 0.20V. In practice, this won't happen because it would take months of continuous discharging to get a stable 0.20V reading on an Alkaline cell.

Anyway it's quite fun to see that discharging Alkalines is very possible on the MC3000 without the creation of a new battery type or special mode. D-CV may be the perfect discharge algorithm but my workaround D-CC-CV discharging works well too. I think that discharging Alkalines on the C9000 was mostly no good because of the high cut-off voltage 0.90V. iCharger can discharge down to 0.10V. Erh talking about flexible discharging ..



leaftye said:


> I totally agree with your assessment of the storage mode function of the iCharger. I've given up on it. Now I slightly overcharge, then use nimh discharge to slowly (0.1A) get down to the desired storage level. Since I do that in multiple steps of decreasing current, it becomes a huge hassle.


.. you could use the iCharger's Lilo DISCHARGE mode in combination with 5% DISCHARGE REDUCE for storing LiIon cells (4.2V -> 3.8V), 0.2A would be reduced to 10mA. No need to do steps manually. iCharger has a very wide cut-off range for discharging LiIons, namely Lilo U LiPo {2.50|2.51|…|4.19|4.20}V.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> I found a website which lists typical capacities for single Alkaline batts:



You could also have found that on my website, listed for different discharge currents and different brands.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

In your AA tests, with a single D-CC (discharge at constant current) run an Alkaline still keeps much of its capacity. And from my tests, between 0.7V and 0.2V there is also notable amount of capacity left. Imax B6mini and iCharger can discharge NiMH down to 0.10V, so i am wondering about the 0.20V limit in the present FW (firmware).

Do you have any means to do D-CC-CV or D-CV tests with your equipment? I am sure that all fancy analyzers support such algorithms apart from the standard D-CC method.

You didn't do any Alkaline C cell tests, did you? Maybe in future more community members will get into testing batteries for the fun of it and it would be a breeze to create a community data collection of standardized MC3000 tests where hundreds of owners could contribute their files at the same time. I have iCharger, Imax B6, Imax B6mini, EBC-A, four great hobby chargers .. but none of them is as much fun and satisfying to operate as the new skyrc.

Looking forward to seeing more owners report their positive user experience.

Looks like since IFA i am still the only one with a unit. :candle:


----------



## HKJ

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

I do not see any point in discharging down to 0.3V or lower.
I can do just about anything I wish in discharge curves, I just have to write the program.

For a C cell: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Panasonic Pro Power C UK.html


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Thanks for the pointers HKJ!

I've test discharged used Alkaline C, AA, AAA batteries just to see if by the end of the tests my BT-860 battery tester would declare them as depleted. And i am pleased to report that the needle is in the middle position ~12:00 o'clock, the red field titled "PLACE CHARGE", excellent!

Discharging the C cell took several days, which made it impossible for me to log its graph with the PC (voltage, current, temperature, capacity) and i had to interrupt the program several times for my other tests and doings  and i didn't really keep track of the accumulated mAh's.

But i should buy brand new 4-packs of discounter AA's and AAA's and discharge all 8 batteries in parallel in the skyrc and in the C9000 maha just to learn the difference in mAh's and BT-860 reading.


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

I still don't really understand why you would use anything, let alone something as interesting as this charger, to discharge alkaline batteries. What am I missing? Is it simply to test the cells, for future reference, so that you know brand X has more capacity than brand Y? 

Or is it a more hobbyist answer - you do it because you can?:devil:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Dubois said:


> I still don't really understand why you would use anything, let alone something as interesting as this charger, to discharge alkaline batteries. What am I missing? Is it simply to test the cells, for future reference, so that you know brand X has more capacity than brand Y?
> 
> Or is it a more hobbyist answer - you do it because you can?


You pose some good questions.

It maybe interesting to know if your Duracell brand has 25% less capacity than my Industrial brand, or kaufland and aldi alkalines cost 15-20¢/aa and at such low prices i couldn't care less if their capacity is only 50% of panas.

You're right, it's more of a hobbyist thing. If discharging all sorts of round batteries in an interesting charger for the sake of it isn't fun enough, then maybe i should look for a new hobby? :duh2: 

What would you suggest? :huh:

Q. Have you bought the new 4-pack of Alkaline AA and 4-pack of Alkaline AAA yet?
A. Not yet.

Q. Anything wrong with you? Don't tell me!
A. Everything fine. And what kind of question was that please? Good lord.

Q. Nah nothing. It's another weekend and i am bored. Can't wait for news.
A. I feel for you bro. Dis country celebrates national holiday. I gotta wait too sollie mahn.


----------



## Dubois

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Sounds to me like you should do a lot of testing of alkaline batteries and report back here on their quality. :devil:

Mind you, I only use alkaline batteries for remote controls, where any old rubbish seems to work, so any interest would be purely academic.


----------



## kreisl

digiowl said:


> So the led next to the USB seems to be marked "power bank". What is the limitations on its use? Given the 2.1A marking on the port i am guessing it needs something more potent than your typical AAs.


The mini _USB data_ output port is marked "PC LINK", right next to it the _USB power_ output port is marked "5V 2.1A" which implies a max. power output of 10.5 Watts. 





While power banks based on NiMH batteries might exist, the truth is that i hardly know of 1 example with actual market availability and HKJ didn't afaik ever review any such for good reasons. If a portable power bank aims to output 10W, then you better do this safely and effectively with powerful Liion batteries, see also the Liion accu packs for laptops and notebooks. State of the art portable power banks such as Tensai are driven by cylindrical LiIon cells, NCR18650B.

I haven't tested the power bank functionality extensively and i cannot answer my own questions with full certainty yet it appears to work like this:


the device must be disconnected from the PC Link cable and the PSU adapter cable.
at least 1 battery must be inserted in the battery cradle. you can insert up to 4 batteries of different chemistries/voltages at the same time, but at least 1 of them needs to have a minimum voltage of x.xxV, otherwise the device would not power up.
you press the two lower right buttons simultaneously for 0.5sec and the device powers up, displays the 4 voltages, elapsed time, and the output amperage.
if the user does not connect a smartphone/MP3-player/etc to the skyrc within 10sec, the device powers down. otherwise a red SNB led (slot number button LED) indicates which slot (=battery) is being used for transferring the capacity from the battery to the connected gadget. the device starts with the slot with the highest cell voltage.
once the battery voltage has dropped below the threshold of x.xxV, the device continues with the slot with the second highest cell voltage in line to carry on the powering of the connected gadget without any break. thru the currently active red SNB led the user knows at any time which battery is being used as power source. of course, in the meantime he/she can feel free to replace the used-up cells with fresh cells to continue feeding the power bank.
this goes on until all 'usable cells' are depleted or the gadget stops drawing current.


----------



## ChibiM

Can you please explain your meaning of the word "Powerbank".. Im not sure if I understand this sentence
_Quote:"the truth is that i hardly know of 1 example with actual market availability"_


----------



## StandardBattery

Wow!! That's pretty cool. It would be cool if it would use say 2-4 lithium cells at once if desired (maybe select cells before connecting) as with less draw from each cell the power extracted from them could be more. Not a big deal, this is already very nice to have for power outages, even though most people probably have other solutions for this case. For some types of travel this might be very nice way to include a flexible power bank. Best not to complicate the circuit just to add powerbank feature. In some ways I would not really mind if it didn't even have that feature, but just because I already have powerbanks and chargers with the feature.


----------



## Dubois

ChibiM said:


> Can you please explain your meaning of the word "Powerbank".. Im not sure if I understand this sentence
> _Quote:"the truth is that i hardly know of 1 example with actual market availability"_



Pretty self evident, I would have thought - Kreisl doesn't know any usb powerbanks than run off AA cells.


----------



## kreisl

ChibiM said:


> Can you please explain your meaning of the word "Powerbank".. Im not sure if I understand this sentence
> _Quote:"the truth is that i hardly know of 1 example with actual market availability"_



Hi ChibiM, with "power bank" i mean the products which are being sold under this title on sites such as our trusted Fasttech. A power bank is a (usually portable) device which is powered by (INPUT) rechargeable batteries and which powers (OUTPUT) other smaller gadgets through a connection cable. The most typical use of a power bank is the charging of another portable device such as cell phone, mobile player, or similar, through a USB cable.

Commercial power banks often have 18650 batteries firmly installed in the inside. And of course these devices need to be recharged themselves too! They act as temporary storage of capacity/energy until you need the stored energy to recharge your personal iphone or iwatch.

The skyrc isn't very portable due to its size and weight but in case of power outages you could still use the machine to recharge your iphone, as long as you have some (undepleted) round Liion cells to feed the MC3000 cradle with.

The quote .. i was trying to say that you could go on Amazon or Fasttech and look for a power bank which is fed with NiMH AA batteries and you'd probably not find a single such product _there_. For good reason. On the other hand, on Amazon, ebay, DX, FT, etc. these days there are _thousands _of power banks based on (typically 18650) LiIon cells in series, they are omnipresent, inexpensive, and highly available anywhere, anytime.

I could share photo of the PBV (LCD: Power Bank View), if someone's interested in such yawni material :ironic:


----------



## shelm

kreisl said:


> The mini _USB data_ output port is marked "PC LINK", right next to it the _USB power_ output port is marked "5V 2.1A"



Anything missing? Here the former model for visual comparison thank you UPz:


----------



## ChibiM

Ok.. here in Japan we have a lot of "portable phone chargers" that run off AA batteries. So I`m not sure if that qualifies as a powerbank. 
Thats why I wanted to know. (most older type phones in Japan had 1 charger connector for each telephone provider.. whatever brand phone it was, they shared the same charger connector). 

There are actually tons of them, and some with USB out.. but most with dedicated connectors for those Telephone Providers. 

Sanyo eneloop had them, Panasonic now has them... and I see them at every convenience store, or drug store. 
so it might really depend on where you live, but here in Tokyo they are very common.


----------



## smole

Is this charger ever gonna come out to market or it exist only in this thread as a prototype?


----------



## kreisl

ChibiM said:


> Sanyo eneloop had them, Panasonic now has them... and I see them at every convenience store, or drug store.


If you could share links to 3 such products, that'd be really helpful for the discussion. Imho they do qualify as power banks.

I am going to assume that the AA's are connected in series (4s1p, 3s1p, 2s1p) and not in parallel (1s4p, 1s3p, 1s2p), am i right? One can verify this assumption when the power bank claims to provide "min 2450mAh" or "min 1900mAh", even though it is fed with 2, 3, or 4 AA batteries. In such a case, they simply substitute a single liion cell: fully charged 3×1.45V = 4.35V, under load 3x1.2V = 3.6V. Similarly, a single-18650 flashlight could easily substitute for a 3×AA flashlight.

Hence there is a marvelous workaround trick for those who want to use their Eneloops to feed the skyrc power bank:

Since the slots are spacious, one could probably insert the NiMH's in a round 3s1p-battery holder (AA: SKU1276001, AAA: SKU1276100, SKU1276000, SKU1279700) and then insert this loaded holder in one of the skyrc slots, good idea kreisl thanks problem solved!  — Will it work? Sure, why not. I have not tested it because i don't have any round 3s1p battery holder. Next time i order stuff from Fasttech, i'll include the 4 items. Great accessories t/a the machine. 

smole thanks for your interest! The product development stage is definitely beyond prototyping, there have been early production runs of 100pcs+ before IFA 2014 in order to learn about the tooling process and the production output quality, and the product passed those formal tests! Unfortunately i am not entitled to utter anything about release date or price. I believe that even the maker does not have this info. But i'll continue to share relevant aspects and technical details regarding the product and development to keep you informed.

Btw the planned release date was Xmas '13 

:santa:​


----------



## ChibiM

few links: product 1 eneloop
Product 2 eneloop
product 3 
product 4, which is one of the basic styles seen in every convenience store.


----------



## kreisl

Thank you ChibiM! 
Interesting. 

Interesting to learn that there _are _several such products on the market. A renewed search on amazon came up with 2 hits by the label PortaPow. One of the product pix is rather clear about the connection of the batteries:





On other photos the AA batteries _seem _to lie in parallel but as long as we don't have any confirmation on the _actual _connection, i'll continue to assume that at least 2 cells are connected in series for these _commercial _NiMH power banks to work, i.e. at least a *2s*1p/*2s*2p or the *3s*1p/*4s*1p connection. I don't believe that any commercial NiMH power bank based on 1 single AA exists (*1s*1p) because of high currents and low efficiency. 1s*2p*/1s*3p*/1s*4p* _may _exist but, again, i highly doubt it unless proven otherwise: if you have a multi-cell power bank, it is much more natural, logical and efficient to place them in series!


----------



## HKJ

There is a couple of ways you could design a power bank with AA batteries:
4 in series: USB output connected directly to the battery, good charging is tricky, easiest way is to just use a low charge current and terminated on time.
2 in series: USB output needs a boost converter, good charging is tricky (as above).
1 in series: USB output needs a boost converter and it will have to work with high currents, i.e. low efficiency. Charging can use standard -dv/dt algorithm.

2&4 could also use -dv/dt, but it is rather tricky to implement.


----------



## kreisl

HKJ said:


> 2 in series: USB output needs a boost converter, good charging is tricky (as above).



From ChibiM's links, this is imho an obvious 2xAA-series connection with a boost converter:





And here another example of an original Japanese power bank with 4xAA. We can see that the Japanese batteries are connected in series:





and charging the iPhone would not work if 1 battery is removed:






Q. You confuse me. Why again does it matter if AA power banks have series or parallel battery connection? What's that to do with our skyrc discussion please?
A. In a parallel connection the cells would have the same voltage. In a series connection the cells should have the same brand, capacity, and voltage.

Q. Erh, okay?
A. (…) Argh, i've lost the thread! Sometimes i confuse myself too. So uncool.

Q. Lemme try then. Could an _advanced _power bank simultaneously use 4 independent single NiMH batteries to power its 1 USB output?
A. Nice dream, far off technical sense or practicability. To keep things simple, safe and stupid the sykrc draws energy from 1 slot at a time. 
A. Seen any AA power bank on the present market showcasing 1sXp config?

Q. Nope, haven't looked. I thought you're doing it for us.
A. Thanks :sick2:
A. Not finding such a thing would back up the power bank limitation that the MC3000 does not support drawing energy from 1 single NiMH battery per slot.


----------



## Mr Floppy

kreisl said:


> Thank you ChibiM!
> Interesting.
> 
> Interesting to learn that there _are _several such products on the market. A renewed search on amazon came up with 2 hits by the label PortaPow. One of the product pix is rather clear about the connection of the batteries:



The really cheap 4xAA USB packs, they are normally in series and have nothing in the way voltage limiting, well circuitry even. So fresh alkaline batteries means that often you are giving over 6V right at the start.


----------



## _UPz

kreisl said:


> I could share photo of the PBV (LCD: Power Bank View), if someone's interested in such yawni material


i would like to see the PCB


----------



## Dubois

It would be nice to see more photos of the prototypes that are obviously around. A video maybe?


----------



## kreisl

StandardBattery said:


> Having a USB monitor on the output is a good idea, and it would be good if the updated video showed how the USB output responded during the switch. Look forward to your next take.



video?

I did attempt several new takes but the logistic challenges were a pita:
- the video cam seems to have a recording time limit of 45min (=3.99GB in 720p mode) 
- the video cam battery is good for 1.5-2h, then it is depleted
- the music piece is 1h long
- to demo the decreasing current of the CV-phase, the MP3 player battery should not be full nor depleted
- to demo the automatic switching of slots at 3.2V, the slot battery should not be full nor depleted
- to demo the use of 3s1p AA, the AA batteries should not be full nor depleted
- …

I placed a FT order for the 4 round 3s1p-holders and the USB tester and meanwhile i will be testing powerbanking from 10440's. Maybe such low capacity cells are the key to the solution of the mentioned logistic challenges. I'll replace the video then with an updated better clip.


----------



## Dubois

Hey! Why speed up the video? I was enjoying that piano music. 

Still no idea of a final shipping date?

Edit>> Thanks for the video!


----------



## StandardBattery

kreisl said:


> :sweat:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRz9DwQMaSU


Interesting, but i think the video ended before we saw the automatic switching... we just see the blinking battery indicator.

Having a USB monitor on the output is a good idea, and it would be good if the updated video showed how the USB output responded during the switch. Look forward to your next take. Looks like the charger is also reporting the time for the USB output, is that what I see in the small status area on the right?


----------



## kreisl

StandardBattery said:


> Interesting, but i think the video ended before we saw the automatic switching... we just see the blinking battery indicator. ... Looks like the charger is also reporting the time for the USB output, is that what I see in the small status area on the right?



Yes in the present FW version the powerbank interface reports voltages with 1 decimal (e.g. "4.2" for 4.298V, i.e. by dropping the higher resolution decimals, not by rounding), elapsed time in mmm:ss (i don't know what  happens when the counter has reached 999min59sec ), and output current with 1 decimal (i'll compare the value against a USB tester reading; for more accurate measurements please see HKJ review).

Afaik the standard wall plug Galaxy Note3 charger charges with 2.0A, that's a typical Samsung specification for the bigger portable devices such as Samsung tablet PCs, Galaxy Note series, and maybe even some notebooks. The MC3000 USB output port says "5V 2.1A" but this may refer to normal operation of the device when it is connected to mains; when it is disconnected from mains, in powerbanking mode, the max output may be less than 2.1A, i dunno. 
Yesterday i recharged a fully depleted Galaxy Note3 (3200mAh 4.35V) with 1 single Samsung ICR18650 in no time, the initial current output showed as "1.3A" (CC-phase) and later on began to decrease slowly down to "0.1A" (CV-phase) and suddenly dropped to "0.0A" (termination current) at which point the power bank shut down. And the Galaxy battery showed as 96% full. Really impressive and much fun! Without a USB tester i cannot confirm that the real output was ~1.3A. 

Oh btw, the video does show the automatic switching of slots. Note how on start-up the device prefers the 18650 battery in slot#3 as primary energy source, which is correct because it has the highest capacity. Then at 01:37 i remove the 18650 battery single-handedly, the voltage in slot#3 falls below the 3.2V-threshold (see the short RED-blinking at 01:50), and the charger automatically switches to slot#4 at 01:54. Also note the voltage drop in slot#4 from 4.2V to 3.9V by the sudden 0.4A load. At 02:33 i reinsert the 18650 battery single-handedly and it does not matter if the cell has 3.6V or 4.2V - the charger continues to draw energy from the active slot (here: slot#4, powered by 3xAA in series) until its voltage crosses the 3.2V-threshold. Therefore it is possible to continuously feed the power bank by manually replacing the unusable batteries in the slots.

The minimum offline/online voltage of a battery inserted in the power bank slot should be 3.2V, otherwise the power bank won't use it for powering the MC3000 device itself or for charging the connected gadget.

Anyway, the point of the video was to demonstrate that you can use Eneloops to power the power bank!


----------



## Dubois

One nice thing the video shows is that the sliders look pretty good. I have difficulty using two hands to insert batteries into my I4 charger (and taking them out could easily find one shooting across the table). To use a single, gloved hand to insert/remove cells is impressive.


----------



## kreisl

Dubois said:


> one shooting across the table



the shooting across the table could always happen with springy sliders but is maybe less of a concern with the MC3000 sliders than with my Nitcore i4, you are right.

Not too many have watched the youtube video, i am admitting that it was boring. Maybe this is more interesting, some  animated gif?


----------



## Dubois

kreisl said:


> were you complimenting my handy skills :kiss: or the slider quality, in either case thank you kindly for the compliment



Actually I meant that the slider implementation looked good. It looks as though cells can be loaded and unloaded rather easily - not just one handed, but one handed wearing a gardening glove. I guess your adroitness should get some kudos too.


----------



## StandardBattery

kreisl said:


> ...
> Not too many have watched the youtube video .... Maybe this is more interesting, some  animated gif?
> ....


The video was OK coild have been edited a bit, and the speed-up could have been even faster.

The animated gif... you are updating from 1.00 to 1.00 does not make much sense.


----------



## kreisl

Dubois said:


> slider implementation looked good



During the course of the DC2 development the sliders were changed and improved many times until everybody was really satisfied with them. Much attention to detail was given treating various aspects of _the _suitable slider. They wanted a strong build, something which didn't look nor feel flimsy or cheap. 

A thick material was the starting point, and by rounding all edges their eventual sharpness got eliminated. Also note the nicely protruding positive contact to suit flat-top cells:







In a shallow bay it is harder to center a slim battery between the contacts. A deeper flashlight reflector allows of better throw, a deeper battery bay allows of better seating of the inserted battery. While 26650's and C-size batteries are perfectly seated in the bays, 32650's and D-size batteries still fit as mentioned before. I am also going to test the fitment of a round 3xAA-battery holder 3s1p and share photos of such large batteries in the MC3000 tray, stay tuned. 






Note the considerable size of the sliders. Somehow the competition looks frightened  






Sliding action is nice and smooth too, the sliders don't get stuck, no matter how/where you exert pressure on them.

Awesome construction of sliders, bays and contacts. No room left for further improvement, personally i am very pleased.:goodjob:


----------



## StandardBattery

Nice; looks like there was some substantial increase in material, and certainly looks like the cylindrical battery bays were given the proper amount of review if they work for all the sizes stated. We've seen a few problems recently on some chargers with some cells now as they tried to accomodate larger cells. Personally I think they should look at the X design also on the LUC S2, contrary to comments on the forum, my temp probs would seem to indicate the design is interesting and worth further analysis. Slightly different materials or maybe a fan (would love no fan) could maybe even make it better. Of course I'm sure it won't be in the first release.... now when did you say that was... Nov 2014 was it?


----------



## kreisl

StandardBattery said:


> my temp probs would seem to indicate the design is interesting and worth further analysis. Slightly different materials or maybe a fan (would love no fan) could maybe even make it better. Of course I'm sure it won't be in the first release



I am confused, temp - temporary, temperature, probs - problems, probes? Which design, whose materials, fan, or first release are you talking about, the Efest LUC S2? Yes the X design of LUC S2 is interesting and worth exploring 
The MC3000 does have a smart fan as you know, at the backside of the PCB, near the top; the General Settings menu of the older version firmware offered few options to control the fan behavior, its cooling hysterisis.

I also noted that users could easily expand the built-in metal heat sink plate. However that's not needed. Especially during charge 4×(2.5…3.0A) there are no temperature problems with the MC3000 and the fan usually stays off, depending on the room temperature. Generated heat becomes a factor at high discharge rates, 4×-1.0A, so the smart fan would turn on. Don't worry, the topic temperature/thermals/cooling has been fully addressed in the design of the device from the very start, and i don't expect any further changes. I tested charges and discharges at full load, and everything is cool :thumbsup:

The animated GIF was my first attempt to record and share a real-time video at small file size (277KB ), i could do this also for sharing (animated) graphs of the PC link software, possibly with accelerated sections too, if you guys find curves and graphs similar to HKJ's battery/charger reviews interesting. Firmware updating from 1.00 to 1.00 does not make sense, i agree, it was only to show how the present PC link software user interface works for the firmware updating. I'll post a more sensible GIF when the next firmware update becomes accessible online, my pleasure.

All right, i am off to the supermarket. Need to buy a couple of new D-size batteries. Hehe.


----------



## LiteTheWay

When will we be able to buy this charger? - and do we have a guesstimated price?


----------



## Dubois

7histology said:


> When will we be able to buy this charger? - and do we have a guesstimated price?



It's probably fair to say that nobody really knows when this charger will be launched. Hopefully before the end of the year, but nothing is certain. HKJ has given an educated guess in post 68 above that he expects it to cost in excess of $100.


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> still fit as mentioned before.



I had to edit the mentioned post. I took C-size cells and taped them with transparent film to increase their diameter up to 26.5mm, because that's the typical diameter of 26650 batteries. I went to the supermarket and bought a pair of brand new D cell Alkalines; the cells happen to have a diameter of 33.0mm! With these cells i simulated the insertion of 26650 and 32650 in the MC3000 battery tray, and to my surprise I found out that 2×(32650+26650) actually fit in the tray as long as the 32650's do not lie next to each other. Clearly, D/D/C/C, C/C/D/D or C/D/D/C are a nogo, but D/C/D/C, C/D/C/D or D/C/C/D are fine tray configurations:





The above config has the disadvantage that the first C-cell (or 26650 or 26730) is interlocked between the two D-cells (or 32650 or 33730) and cannot be removed without removing one of the bigger cells.

The below config has the advantage that the middle cells can be exchanged at any time and in any order while leaving the outer cells in place. The symmetrical arrangement may also be advantageous for heat transfer to the environment:





In the above two photos the LCD shows the TOV, the Total Overview. The four channels are ready to proceed with the charge program. To signal the readiness, the SNB led's (Slot Number Button LED's) blink RED-GREEN-RED-GREEN-RED-GREEN-etc while the info row shows a blinking slot number w/ program symbol plus a blinking "READY". 
From here, you could click (= short-press) SNB#3 to start the program in slot#3, or long-press SNB#3 to switch to SPV (Slot Programming View) of slot#3 for changing the parameters and parameter options of the program in slot#3, or press the SETUP-button to enter the GSV (General/Global Settings View), or press the ENTER-button to start all 'ready-slots' at the same time, or press blablah to activate bluetooth, or press etc.

@7histology
Thanks for your interest in the product! :huh:
The release date is still in the making  and the consumer's end price can be freely chosen by the seller since there is no MAP. My guess is that no seller will be capable of fixing or dictating it. Competition and the market, -demand and supply- , are going to level the price. And in the beginning there should be (forum) group buys, coupon codes, holiday discounts, or similar promotional things going on. Once the product has been released, we could hunt for the best deals together and point to them on CPFMP.

Will be some fun! :thumbsup:


----------



## shelm

7histology said:


> When will we be able to buy this charger?



There is a prospected release date given in the updated PDF catalog:
http://www.skyrc.com/download/catalog.pdf


----------



## Mayor

shelm said:


> There is a prospected release date given in the updated PDF catalog:
> http://www.skyrc.com/download/catalog.pdf



But I want it nowwwwwwwww


----------



## StandardBattery

Maybe we'll get and early release? :tinfoil: Oh well I can come back in 6 months, it will give me more time with using my existing chargers, and maybe i'll have more cells that are less standard for testing.


----------



## kreisl

Spring begins in 4 months and ends by the end of May, that's seven months away omg. A long time to keep filling this thread with more info, answers, news, updates, and details, please don't get bored :tired:

Let me know if you guys want some other pics, animations or videos


----------



## _UPz

_UPz said:


> i would like to see the PCB


You forgot me or what? :tired:


----------



## kreisl

hola UPz_!! 

for your consideration

PBV = Power Bank View


----------



## oKtosiTe

kreisl said:


> i was talking about the PBV, did you mean the PBV? could be in catalão it is spelled this way similar to EEUU and USA, ONU and UN, SIDA and etc
> StandardBattery had shared a youtube of the PBV :huh:
> 
> here a tiny demo of various LED lighting modi and manual 0V activation of tripped PCB's:


Eh? PCB is a very commonly used acronym for printed circuit board. I've never seen PBV before this thread.

When someone asks you for a picture of the PCB, they basically expect you to open up the device and take a picture of its guts.

Liking the functionality here by the way, although it's a bit hard to determine the user-friendliness.


----------



## kreisl

GOOD NEWS. From what i have learned, the retail shipping package is going to include a free external PSU adapter hooray. With the adapter which _i _got one could easily switch the wall socket cable to adapt to different plug types (US/EU/UK/AU/.. plug) without changing the whole adapter construction, genius. With the total weight of the installed product being ~0.883kg, plus printed manual, cardboard box, accessories and whatnot, the international shipping weight will exceed 1.0kg in a heartbeat. Posting this as sub 2kg Registered Letter, ouch not cheap. Because of warranty and stuff, personally i'd wouldn't mind acquiring such a big heavy thing from a national or local dealer than a Chinese etailer.

Today i painted the numbers/symbols of the 8 buttons with thinned down tippex correction fluid, white color. Looks sweet imho :huh: 
I guess that most viewers would prefer the black-in-black stealth style as seen in the catalog? 

When i got the final production version, i'll take photos of the guts, no problem.



kreisl said:


> _charger model
> __max dimensions W×H×L
> __weight
> __comments
> _XTAR XP4
> 92.4 × 34.6 × 125.0 mm³
> 170g unit + 149 mains adapter
> tiny. heat issues.
> Nitcore i4 V2
> 96.3 × 36.6 × 136.5 mm³
> 160g unit + 67g mains cable
> light. cheap. it is!
> Opus BT-C3100
> 100.1 × 42.9 × 150.0 mm³
> 230g unit + 194g mains adapter
> likable product, no doubt.
> Maha MH-C9000
> 109.8 × 41.7 × 165.0 mm³
> 364g unit + 153g mains adapter
> 2006 release. big.
> Skyrc MC3000
> 124.0 × 68.8 × 200.3 mm³
> 601g unit + 215g PSU + 67g mains cable
> whopper. 2014 release?


----------



## StandardBattery

Impressive, i like the idea of a charger that stays put and has no over heating issues. i hope they have a good US distributor or dealer lined up.


----------



## Dubois

Good news about the power supply being included in the package. It would be nice to see some European distributors for this (UK even better), but if I have to order from China, well, it won't be the first time.


----------



## kreisl

while waiting myself for the latest updates from the skyrc offices i stumbled upon this beautiful 1.0 product release documentary which in manifold ways reminded me of the dc2 development team, offices and ongoing 1.0 release. hope you enjoy it as much as i did, please lemme share:



and sorry for the ot


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> I placed a FT order for the 4 round 3s1p-holders and the USB tester and meanwhile i will be testing powerbanking from 10440's. Maybe such low capacity cells are the key to the solution of the mentioned logistic challenges. I'll replace the video then with an updated better clip.



woah. 450 views since my last post. some of you must be interested in the updates in this thread as it seems, thanks :thumbsup:
2 news items for today:

1. 
i got the round battery holders and the USB tester to test with the power bank. I am gonna share report or photo or vid of the test, stay tuned:






2. 
i've got word that an updated firmware will be out within 1 week for the testers to test. It's been over a month since the last FW update and i've been getting desperate since 
hallelujah.

lol.


----------



## _UPz

Hey kreisl, can you share a link for the USB tester? is it reliable?


----------



## thedoc007

Xtar Direct sells a USB tester, for both current and voltage, for a mere five dollars. Has been reliable for me, and HKJ and Selfbuilt both have found it to be accurate.


----------



## HKJ

_UPz said:


> Hey kreisl, can you share a link for the USB tester? is it reliable?



I have been checking a couple of them: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexUSB UK.html
More will be added over the next couple of weeks.


----------



## Mr Floppy

HKJ said:


> I have been checking a couple of them: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexUSB UK.html
> More will be added over the next couple of weeks.



Damn, I should have waited. Ordered the DX one. Guess it was cheap ...


----------



## kreisl

I am informed that all testers can online update the new fw now, my weekend is saved! 




Lemme look for the changes ..


----------



## StandardBattery

For consistency the "Upgrade Complete" dialog-box should be "Update Complete", if it's needed at all.


----------



## kreisl

tru  (…)
just some quick intermediate info regarding the new fw:
+ the maximum discharge rate of NiMH/Eneloop got raised from 1 amp to 2 amps, which means that one can discharge 4�×(-2A) simultaneously for a total discharge power of (4*1.5*2.0)W, 12 watts.
+ also the maximum charge rate of NiMH/Eneloop got raised from 2 amps to 3 amps per slot. 3.0A would be the correct charge rate for D-size Eneloops.
+ again, the minimum user-settable charge rate for both LiIon and NiMH is indeed 0.05A (50mA), not 0.1A (100mA) as stated wrongly in the preliminary specs of the 2014 PDF catalog.
+ cooling fan and background light are now fully controllable: cooling fan has the options {Auto|OFF|ON|
20|25|…|45|50}°C, and the background light has got the options {Auto|1min|3min|5min|ALWAYS ON|OFF}. Underscored options denote the factory default setting (Factory Reset).
+ the CV-phase of LiIon charging can be cancelled, if desired. you'd end up with constant current charging, CC-phase only.
+ and there are many other little changes which i've been discovering and need to test in the next days. looks all promising and fun! 

Q. Hey why would i want to charge a LiIon battery with CC-algorithm instead of the regular CC-CV-algorithm?
A. You don't need to. The machine does offer this option for more flexibility, though.

Q. Okay but when could a user make serious use of it if not for fooling around?
A. I had mentioned a practical/technical example in September. Do you or don't you follow this thread?

Q. Betcha i do. But I am not too interested in every everything that you're posting. By the way, in September i was on holiday.
A. The entire month? Sweet man. I can't take a leave until the DC2 product release to market whenever that maybe, yikes


----------



## StandardBattery

After you update to v1.05, are you able to downgrade to v1.0?


----------



## kreisl

hmm.

lemme check 




lol.


----------



## Aperture

kreisl said:


> While power banks based on NiMH batteries might exist, the truth is that i hardly know of 1 example with actual market availability and HKJ didn't afaik ever review any such for good reasons.


They have been on the market for a few years actually from trusted solar companies PowerTraveller and GoalZero with the former being expedition grade quality:
https://www.powertraveller.com/en/shop/portable-chargers/outdoor-adventure/powerchimp4a/
http://www.goalzero.com/p/133/guide-10-plus-recharger

Both can be bought in the average outdoor shop, at least here in the Netherlands


----------



## Dubois

kreisl said:


> hmm.
> 
> lemme check
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol.



Neat little animated gif, Kreisl, thanks for that. I'm not sure why someone would want to downgrade the firmware, unless, of course, a newer version was discovered to have some bugs.


----------



## _UPz

Dubois said:


> ...unless, of course, a newer version was discovered to have some bugs.


+1


----------



## magellan

I have the NiMh 2500 Bluetooth model and love the power and convenience of the iPhone app. I just wish it ran on the iPad. I'm sure I'll be buying one of these soon.


----------



## kreisl

Power Me Up said:


> kreisl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to be shy myself  so lemme join your thread mark and say *thanks *so much for your serious testing efforts of cycling Eneloops hundreds of times. My iCharger can run CYCLE programs with up to 999 cycles, which is insane and awesome at the same time. What's the max number of cycles which the USC UltraSmartCharger supports?
> 
> 
> 
> I've currently got it set to limit the number of cycles to 100 which I think is plenty. I could very easily change it to allow up to about 125 but I kept it at 100 as a nice round number. With a few more changes, I could allow it to go up to literally a billion cycles but I think we can agree that it would be slightly overboard to allow that many! ;-)
> 
> 
> kreisl said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the current MC3000 firmware this number is limited to N=10, a nice realistic reasonable practical number. As long as users don't express their case why they would want or need over 10 cycles in a charger-analyzer, the ten would stay that way i guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IMHO, 10 is a bit low. If I didn't have the USC and I was looking at purchasing the MC3000, I'd be asking for it to allow up to 100 as well (or at least 50) so that it could also do similar cycle testing without having to be babied all of the time.
Click to expand...


10 is low for ambitious amateurs or professional battery testers in the industry IMHO too. Since the charger saves the DISCHARGE history (4*100 +4) and displays it in the SOV, i am not sure if there is some kind of memory limit of the hardware, lemme find out. While i find 10 a reasonable nice round number, we learn that there are serious instances in which a much higher number would be desirable. And as the product is made for serious use and abuse, it should support 99, 100 or more cycles, I really agree.

Btw, i enjoy watching the two competitors —USC & MC3000— growing side by side into impressive full-fledged products for end consumers with different needs. Maybe one day one product will match the special features of the other. Then, at the same retail price, it will be an easier purchase decision on behalf of the shoppers 

Off the top of your head mark, which would be in your opinion the advantages or superior points of the UltraSmartCharger? :thinking:


----------



## shelm

What does 'cycle' mean exactly, how is it defined?

Or what's the CYCLE mode on the MC3000, how does it compare to other chargers? There is a cycle mode on my Powerex MH-C9000 but i don't understand what it's really good for and i don't seem to need it anyway. Reduces the life of the batteries!

Afaik the Imax B6 does not have a cycle mode for LiPo and Lilo battery types. How about the MC3000, does it have a cycle mode for Li-Ion batteries?


----------



## kreisl

'Cycling' on a charger-analyzer or hobby charger means the repeated sequence of a pre-defined charge routine, discharge routine, plus the pausing/resting routines in between. For decomplication and symmetry reasons it is common to employ the same REST TIME, e.g. 60min (or 0min) after both the discharge and the charge routines, see Turnigy, Imax B6, iCharger, NC2500, etc (let me know if you know any battery analyzer other than the C9000 which supports different rest times after charging vs. after discharging thx).

A singe cycle (N=1) always starts with a partial charge transfer (partial DISCHARGE or partial CHARGE, depending on the beginning of the CYCLE program), followed by a full CHARGE (or: full DISCHARGE), _and may_ be followed by another full DISCHARGE (or: full CHARGE) routine to complete the CYCLE N=1. For illustration purposes let's enumerate all possible cases, there are four. Parentheses denote partial charge transfer, ">" denotes RESTING routine:

CYCLE MODE: *C>D*
N=1: (C1) > D1
ex. N=3: (C1) > D1 > C2 > D2 > C3 > D3
_comment_: charger reports D1, D2, D3 in the CAPACITY history, and you end up with a fully discharged battery. Hobby chargers offer this imho not too useful mode, and it is indeed less common elsewhere: i don't get it, one ends up with a fully discharged battery wdf  
CYCLE MODE: *C>D>C*
N=1: (C0) > D1 > C1
ex. N=3: (C0) > D1 > C1 > D2 > C2 > D3 > C3
_comment_: charger reports D1, D2, D3 in the CAPACITY history, also the value of C3, and you end up with a fully charged battery. The N=1 case, a popular mode also defined as REFRESH MODE on the MC3000, can be found on many charger-analyzers and often bears its own confusing name. 
CYCLE MODE: *D>C*
N=1: (D1) > C1
ex. N=3: (D1) > C1 > D2 > C2 > D3 > C3
_comment_: charger reports D1, D2, D3 in the CAPACITY history, also the value of C3, and you end up with a fully charged battery. suitable for refreshing and cycling old NiMH batteries with memory effect. The N=1 case is the first basic mode on dedicated NiMH/NiCd battery analyzers and sometimes called "CHECK MODE" (see Charge Manager, Akkumaster C5, ALC 8500-2 Expert). 
CYCLE MODE: *D>C>D*
N=1: (D0) > C1 > D1
ex. N=3: (D0) > C1 > D1 > C2 > D2 > C3 > D3
_comment_: charger reports D1, D2, D3 in the CAPACITY history, and you end up with a fully discharged battery. this mode is perfect for resetting a set of test batteries back to the identical original start condition: fully discharged and equalized! my preferred mode for cycling Eneloops to get a coherent test data matrix. 
Fyi the PC Link software gives you access to all other values (D0, C0, C1, C2, etc) too.

It is true that the old Imax B6 did not cycle Lilo batteries whereas the old iCharger could do it. However the new Imax B6mini has upgradable firmware so don't give your hopes up. The MC3000 offers CYCLE program for LiIon/LiIo4.35/LiFe battery types right off the start, and i've been using it a lot for robustness and long-term endurance testing of the machine under the max :naughty: charge/discharge rates.



*C>D
**C>D>C
**D>C
**D>C>D
*N(max)_special notes
_iCharger√√999999, siriusly? omg Schulz√√5§$%&/#!Imax B6√√5B6 doesn't cycle Lilo
Imax B6mini√√5**upgradable FW could support cycling Lilo and N>5
EBC-A?????who cares about exotic Chinese battery analyzer
Turnigy√√5Turnigy doesn't cycle LiloNC1000(N=1)(N≤20)NC1000 does not have a dedicated cycling modeMH-C9000√12i am not very happyNC2500√12neitherBC700(N=1)(N≤20)BC700 does not have a dedicated cycling modeBT-C3100(N=1)(N=3)BT-C3100 does not have a dedicated cycling modeCharge Manager 2016(N=1), (N=2)(N=1)CM2016 does not have a dedicated cycling modeAkkumaster C5(N=1)√20confusing manual lolALC 8500-2 Expert√(N=1), (N=3)12**could be over 12 who caresAV4m+ / AV4ms(N=1)(N=1)§$%&/#!Akkumatik√√√√9somewhat impressive DIY kitUltraSmartCharger√√√√100**upgradable FW could support N>100
MC3000√√√√99**was 10. is 99 since FW1.07 :bow:

We are learning that only Paul&Mark's UltraSmartCharger and Skyrc's MC3000 offer all 4 cycle modes. Maha's cycle mode for example is C>D>C only and that's it. Was very annoying and me not bery happy when i tried to perform consistency tests on the C9000. 



shelm said:


> There is a cycle mode on my Powerex MH-C9000 but i don't understand what it's really good for and i don't seem to need it anyway. Reduces the life of the batteries!


Yes, a battery could be cycled only so many times until it has reached eol. Can be compared to regular workout in a health club. After few weeks of training and conditioning, your body starts to feel refreshed, strong, fit and younger but at the same time you did accelerate the aging of your body cells through the increased metabolism. Sports consumes cell life, cycling consumes battery life, whatcha gonna do, life is a mystery, a paradox. :mecry:


----------



## Power Me Up

kreisl said:


> No other charger offers all 4 cycle modes.



Actually, the LCD UltraSmartCharger offers all 4 modes...

The non LCD version doesn't have the C>D option due to the more restricted user interface, but like any charger with an upgradeable firmware, it could be added if there was enough demand for the feature...


----------



## kreisl

Power Me Up said:


> Actually, the LCD UltraSmartCharger offers all 4 modes...



Please do tell if the USC non-lcd version offers differing REST TIME after charging versus after discharging. How about the LCD version, and what is the REST TIME range from which the user chooses the rest time? As i had noted before, the Akkumaster C5 distinguishes between _service pause_ and _cycle pause_.



> Each service programme (except ‘Charge’ and ‘Discharge’) consists of a combination of charge and discharge procedures. The service pause (SP) is a pause that is entered between discharge & charge, or between charge & discharge, procedures. E.g.
> for the service programme:
> • "Discharge-Charge": Discharge – SP – Charge;
> • "Charge-Discharge-Charge": Charge – SP - Discharge – SP – Charge;
> Here: SP = service pause;
> Settings range: 1 - 60min;
> ...
> The cycle pause (CP) is a pause which is entered between cycles. E.g.:
> • (Discharge – SP – Charge) – CP – (Discharge – SP – Charge) – CP - ...;
> Here: SP – Service pause; CP – Cycle pause;
> Settings range: 1 min to 30 Days;



I find this concept interesting but imho it is unnecessary and too confusing to call them this way. It is more straight-forward to call the pauses "REST TIME AFTER CHARGING" and "REST TIME AFTER DISCHARGING". Sure, these are long names haha. In the present MC3000 firmware, the cycling uses symmetrical resting periods, i.e. the same REST TIME between Charge&Discharge and between Discharge&Charge. Too simple, too restricted, what do you think?
So how about the implementation of REST TIME in the UltraSmartCharger? :candle:


----------



## Power Me Up

kreisl said:


> Please do tell if the USC non-lcd version offers differing REST TIME after charging versus after discharging. How about the LCD version, and what is the REST TIME range from which the user chooses the rest time?




Yes, you can specify different rest times after charging and discharging on the non LCD version as well. The rest period can be set between 0 and 255 minutes in 1 minute increments on both versions.


----------



## kreisl

thanks mark for the info. So the MH-C9000 (in part), the Akkumaster C5, the UltraSmartCharger, and maybe very few more analyzers offer 2 different rest times, hmm. I kinda dig that  — for now I'll leave it as an optional FW update to the programming team, not the most urgent suggestion to consider for implementation. Sure enough, my personal dreamcharger should have it :kiss:

In the meantime i got a quick FW update which fixes a few harmless bugs in the UI. These days i am doing again extensive tests with the powerbank functionality and Eneloops and got some interesting positive results which i'll share later. I never used the powerbank (=mobile USB output) functionality of my other chargers say XTAR XP4 but with the Skyrc test unit i can't help but play with it all the time. Probably because of the ease of use with the LCD screen, automatic vs. manual control which slot is being used next, user interactivity, slot number button LED status, the possibility to use Eneloops (with an adapter), high amperage output, etc, argh it's just so much fun!


----------



## Dubois

Fun? Fun? Never mind the fun - we haven't got time for fun here. Get the testing completed and the product to market asap.:naughty:


----------



## kreisl

Aperture said:


> They have been on the market for a few years actually from trusted solar companies PowerTraveller and GoalZero with the former being expedition grade quality:
> https://www.powertraveller.com/en/shop/portable-chargers/outdoor-adventure/powerchimp4a/
> http://www.goalzero.com/p/133/guide-10-plus-recharger



Yes yes, fun Dubois 

Aperture thanks for the pointers, i was not aware of these two "old" products, they must have been on the market for many years, earlier iterations of them. In fact, the PC4A claims to be the very first of its kind on the market back then. At about the same time, around 2006, Tekkeon had released the MP1500, followed by its successor the MP1550 in 2008 and finally the MP1580 in 2011. At some point in between, in 2007 Duracell had entered this niche market with the CEF23 but discontinued the production by 2010. In 2007 too, Panasonic came up with the short-lived BQ-600 for 2×AA. Nowadays there are non-branded alternatives on ebay (blah, blupp), Aliexpress, a.o. to be found thru search term <_emergency aa_>, trade company PortaPow and Fujitsu/FDK have a similar product since 2013. _All _these aforementioned 4×AA products have in common that they really need all four AA's (NiMH, Alkaline, Lithium primary) in the battery holder to function as powerbank. If one AA battery is removed from the tray, the device will either stop working right away, or act up and stop working properly. They have in common too, that their spec'ed output is 500, 800 or 1000mA, not any higher!, and that the max current thru each single cell does not exceed 1.0A, which is imho a reasonable figure for a single AA battery also for limiting the heat production within the enclosed plastic box. Reports of damaged/melting cases exist, see amazon customer reviews. Eneloop Pro/XX could sustain higher rates, though.

I have found out that the MC3000 does use the four slots concurrently, if more than 1 slot is occupied by a battery. I don't know whether the Samsung Galaxy Note3, which initially draws "1.45A" from the original USB wall adapter as measured by my USB tester, or the MC3000 is responsible for the following interesting behavior:

*config1)* With *only 1 slot* occupied (3xEneloop AA in a serial round holder), my USB tester measures "0.28A" current, powerbank displays "0.2A", and it takes 2½hrs until the powerbank shuts down operation because the 3.2V cut-off voltage under load has been reached (remaining capacity: *450mAh/cell*). So after another set of 3xAA's, or* 5.0hrs* total, the smartphone shows "*81%*" battery charge level, offline voltage 4.07V. And finally with a 3rd set of 3xAA's, the smartphone shows "100%" battery charge level, which equals exact 4.250V offline voltage (remaining capacity: 1350mAh/Eneloop). USB tester measures accumulated transferred capacity at 5.10V 1698mAh. The Samsung battery specs are 3.8V/4.35V 12.16Wh 3200mAh, while apparently the smartphone assigns "0%" to any offline voltage < 3.480V (=black screen, can't be turned ON lol) and "100%" to the cell at 4.250V, even the original Samsung chargers don't charge the cell higher than 4.250V. Do these numbers add up? I did the maths and trust the squirrel they do 

*config2)* Now, with *more than 1 slot* occupied (M1:3xAA, M2:3xAAA, etc), the powerbank outputs an average of "1.1A" ("1.4A" max) to my big smartphone. At any time only 1 slot can constitute the main power source (full red SNB LED as you know from the old youtube clip), so be slot#1 active, the other slots act as 'supporters'. I can click on SNB#2 and the device switches to slot#2 to draw the main energy from the 3xAAA while continuing to output the "1.1A". Very interesting, i need to investigate the exact circumstances why the … EDIT: i bought a 5-pack of higher quality round 3s1p-AA battery holders off ebay, shipped by Uxcell afaik, and tested the charging of my depleted smartphone battery with 2 holders in the tray (M1:3xAA, M2:blank, M3:blank, M4:3xAA) twice: with a USB tester in series to get some 'external' measurements, and without it. The 6 abused Eneloop AA's, ~1900mAh MH-C9000, came fresh off the charger at ≥1.500V, the smartphone battery was fully depleted to "0%", the phone could not be turned on anymore and appeared dead. I removed the Samsung battery, measured its offline voltage, put the battery back in the phone and started the tests. First test was without a USB tester. After *91mins* the power bank concluded the test, battery had reached "*85%*", and after restarting the power bank several times the Eneloops still had *264mAh/cell* juice left (as determined by subsequent discharge in MH-C9000). In any case, because of the power bank min. operating voltage of 3.2V in firmware 1.06 the high current draw naturally accounts for high termination current ~0.6A of the CV-phase, and this somewhat premature termination makes it impossible to squeeze out the remaining capacity from the Eneloops. Yet we already learn that this setup is superior to config1) because it is faster (91mins vs. 5hrs) and makes better use of the Eneloops (85% vs. 81%):


*config2)
**time**M1: 3×AA**M4: 3×AA**output**notes*no load
0min4.5V
4.5V
0.0A"0%", Samsung 3.186V offlineunder load0min+4.3V
4.4V 0.3Awe're online! soft start, grey icon, no LEDM1 is main
7min4.?V
4.?V 1.0Acolor icon, no LED
9min4.?V  4.?V
1.1Adisplay off, red LED
50min3.3V
?.?V
1.1ASNB#1 blinking red
M4 is main
54min3.2V → 3.?V 3.4V
1.2Aautomatic switching to M4

60min3.?V  3.4V 1.1A

75min3.?V  3.3V
1.1ASNB#4 blinking red

79min3.?V  3.3V
1.0Alooks like CV-phase begins

83min3.?V  3.3V
0.9Alucky to sustain 3.3V for some time

86min3.?V  3.3V
0.8Afast decreasing current

89min3.?V
3.3V
0.7A

91min3.?V
~3.3V
0.6Ahigh termination current because of cut-off? reload, etc
1min3.?V
3.?V
0.6A"85%", Samsung 4.170…4.103V offline game over
~15min3.6V
3.6V
0.0Aremaining
266,312,328mAh
213,220,248mAh average: 264mAh


Now, adding a USB tester in series does influence the performance of the system since it adds resistance to the circuitry and comes with a minimal voltage drop! We can see this influence in the lower output amperage, 0.8A instead of 1.1A, which extends the charge duration from 91mins to *122mins*. However on the up side, the lower current also makes for a lower termination current, and in fact it seems that the original Samsung termination current is reached before the power bank runs out of juice! In other words, the Samsung device determines the battery to be (quite) full, stops the current draw from the power bank, which in turn makes the Skyrc device shut down the operation. At this point the Samsung battery is at "93%" or 4.230V. Restarting the power bank several times gets the gauge up to "*95%*" and only 0.007V away from the top score. The Eneloops are squeezed from 1900mAh down to *154mAh/cell*.


*config2)
**time**M1: 3×AA**M4: 3×AA**output (usb)**KCX-017**notes*no load
0min4.5V
4.5V
0.0A (0.00A)0mAh"0%", Samsung 3.245V offlineunder load0min+4.3V
4.4V
0.3A (0.42A)0mAhwe're online! grey icon, no LEDM1 is main
6min4.0V
4.4V
0.8A (0.93A)46mAhcolor icon, no LED
7min3.9V
4.4V
0.8A (0.93A)57mAhdisplay off, red LED
11min3.8V
4.3V
0.8A (0.93A)125mAh

13min3.7V
4.3V
0.8A (0.93A)150mAh

15min3.7V
4.2V
0.8A (0.93A)180mAh

18min3.6V
4.2V
0.8A (0.93A)226mAh

21min3.6V
4.1V
0.8A (0.93A)273mAh

29min3.5V
4.1V
0.8A (0.93A)400mAh

35min3.5V
4.0V
0.8A (0.93A)492mAh

52min3.4V
4.0V
0.8A (0.93A)757mAh

55min3.4V
3.9V
0.8A (0.93A)803mAh

67min3.3V
3.9V
0.8A (0.93A)991mAh

69min3.3V
3.8V
0.8A (0.93A)1022mAh

72min3.3V
3.8V
0.9A (0.93A)1069mAhSNB#1 blinking redM4 becomes main
73min3.2V → 3.5V3.7V
0.8A (0.93A)1100mAhautomatic switching to M4
76min3.6V
3.5V
0.8A (0.93A)1131mAhopposite voltage jumps
85min3.7V
3.5V
0.8A (0.93A)1247mAhM1 has been recovering
91min3.7V
3.4V
0.8A (0.93A)1366mAh

108min3.7V
3.4V
0.7A (0.83A)1633mAhlooks like CV-phase begins
111min3.7V
3.4V
0.6A (0.73A)1670mAhbecoming easier to sustain 3.4V
114min3.7V
3.4V
0.5A (0.64A)1705mAhfast decreasing current
118min3.7V
3.4V
0.4A (0.52A)1745mAh

122min3.7V
3.4V
0.3A (0.40A)1773mAhSamsung termination currentno load122min+3.7V
3.7V
0.0A (0.00A)1773mAh"93%", Samsung 4.230V offlinereload1min3.3V
3.7V
0.7A (0.81A)1773mAh+
etc3min3.2V → 3.5V3.5V
0.3A (0.42A)1773mAh+
game over~15min
3.6V (3.680V)
3.6V (3.701V)
0.0A (0.00A)1773mAh+"95%", Samsung 4.243V offlineremaining
101,125,150mAh
162,179,208mAh 
average: 154mAh


So there we have it! It is very possible to charge a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 (with new original included battery B800B, nominal capacity 3200mAh, max voltage 4.35V) from 3.24V to 4.24V with mere 6 (abused) Eneloop AA's. According to the USB tester some 1800mAh were transferred at 5V, which does not appear much compared to the nominal 3200mAh. Yet the Samsung gauge states "95%" according to its internal scale and that's what counts. After all, a voltmeter cannot lie, 4.24V is an unambiguous quantity. If we don't trust the USB meter, then only special equipment could measure/verify how much capacity could be extracted between 4.24V down to 3.24V at a certain constant current draw, say -1.00A. Anybody out there who tested/measured Samsung smartphone batteries please? _Dude. Can't you measure this with the MC3000 itself? - You know why you can't. The B800B is not a round battery!_ 
And what is the Eneloop current draw in either config? That's challenging to measure because the USB tester plus the multimeter plus the round holder all add resistance to the circuitry and influence the system performance. But lemme tell you, the battery pack does get a bit warm by the end of the powerbanking hehe :devil:

Last but not least, let's do a quick calculation with rough average quantities (and employing the questionable data provided by the USB tester) to obtain a feeling about energy conversion and efficiency:

consumed Eneloop energy = (1900mAh - 450mAh)/cell * 1.2V × 6cells + (1900mAh - 1350mAh)/cell *1.2V × 3cells = 12420mWh
energy provided to phone = 1698mAh * 5.10V = 8659.8mWh
powerbank efficiency with Eneloops = 8659.8 / 12420 = 69.7% (config1)

consumed Eneloop energy = (1900mAh - 154mAh)/cell * 1.2V × 6cells = 12571.2mAVh = 12571.2mWh = 12.57Wh
energy provided to phone = 1800mAh * 5V = 9000mWh = 9.00Wh
capacity/energy stored in B800B battery between 4.24V down to 3.24V ≤ 9.00Wh 
powerbank efficiency with Eneloops = 9 / 12.57 = 71.6% (config2)

Since the powerbank cannot have 2 different efficiencies, in theory the 2 numbers should be identical. Since they are close enough, we could calculate the mean efficiency and drop the decimal: (69.7% + 71.6%)/2 = 70.65% ≈ *70%*

In words, about 30% of the Eneloop energy gets consumed in the powerbank due to conversion and other types of losses and for powering the powerbank itself. Is 70% a good number, typical, average, standard, or poor? Well, we need to compare it against other Eneloop-powered power banks! Please note that these figures are only valid if:

the power bank is operated with Eneloops (or NiMH batteries similar to Eneloop) 
the mAh-capacity measured by the USB tester is truthful and accurate 

All right then, let's have a look at how the power bank functionality of *Powerchimp 4A*, a premium 4×AA dual purpose charger designed and developed in the UK, performs in comparison. After 2½hrs the device signals the low Eneloop power with a red LED and 10mins later the connection gets lost. With *only 1 four-pack* of Eneloop AA the Samsung battery got charged from 3.100V to 4.087V, or "83%", transferring 1611mAh at 5V. The Powerchimp manages to squeeze all juice from the Eneloops, remaining capacity: 4mAh/cell. After 15mins with another fresh set of 4xAA's, the smartphone shows "*95%*" battery charge level, offline voltage 4.240V (remaining capacity: 1644mAh/Eneloop). After a total of nearly *3hrs* the USB tester measures an accumulated transferred capacity of 1815mAh, which is not surprisingly very much the same result as the MC3000 tests. Here the details: 


*Powerchimp
**time**PC4A: 4×AA**output (usb)**KCX-017**notes*no load
0min5.43V
(0.00A)0mAh"0%", Samsung 3.100V offlineunder load0min+5.42V
(0.42A)0mAhgrey icon, no LED, why voltage unregulated?
10min4.95V
(0.69A)69mAhcolor icon, no LED
11min4.97V
(0.69A)75mAhdisplay off, red LED
28min4.98V
(0.69A)285mAh

95min4.98V
(0.70A)1070mAh

131min5.00V
(0.70A)1480mAh

134min4.83V
(0.28A)1515mAh

135min5.04V
(0.28A)1520mAh

149min5.03V
(0.28A)1586mAh

151min4.43V
(0.24A)1598mAhpowerchimp LED red

152min4.40V
(0.18A)1600mAh

154min4.37V
(0.11A)1604mAh

158min4.34V
(0.07A)1610mAh

159min4.32V
(0.06A)1611mAhconnection breaks, "83%", Samsung 4.087V offline
remaining
1,3,4,7mAh
MH-C9000 reports "0mAh", average: 4mAhnew Eneloop set
1min5.04V → 4.89V(1.01A…0.87A)1650mAhLCD draws full current
4min4.92V
(0.84A)1688mAhlooks like CV-phase begins
6min4.94V
(0.75A)1712mAhvoltage seems to recover 
9min4.95V
(0.61A)1747mAh

11min4.97V
(0.53A)1765mAh
14min4.98V
(0.44A)1795mAhSamsung shuts off, "94%", Samsung 4.235V offlinereload
17min4.98V
(0.44A)1815mAhSamsung shuts off, "95%", Samsung 4.240V offlineremaining
1538,1624,1700,1714mAh average: 1644mAh


And what about its efficiency? Similar calculation as before:
consumed Eneloop energy = (1900mAh - 4mAh)/cell * 1.2V × 4cells + (1900mAh - 1644mAh)/cell * 1.2V × 4cells = 10329.6mWh = 10.33Wh
energy provided to phone = 1815mAh * 4.95V = 8984mWh = 8.98Wh
capacity/energy stored in B800B battery between 4.24V down to 3.10V ≤ 8.98Wh 
powerbank efficiency with Eneloops = 8.98 / 10.33 = 86.9%

These were very rough calculations but tendency is as clear as expected: Since the powerchimp operates without overhead and is optimized for slots at 1.2V, less energy gets lost on its way from the Eneloops to the smartphone input, thus making its Eneloop power bank operation more efficient. The next question would be, how efficient are the el cheapo 2$ emergency AA powerbanks? We should find out one day! (EDIT: _I've ordered a white unit 2014-12-09, i am thrilled!_)

The NiMH tests so far were very instructive and serve as first base line for more rigorous systematic NiMH tests to produce more refined measurements. We have learned that:

the round 3s1p plastic AA battery holders work quite well in practice, kreisla proved  
operation profits from concurrent consumption of batteries in multi-slot configuration 
hence 2-slot power banking is preferred to single-slot power banking 
multi-slot NiMH powerbanking enables higher amps output 
however, reduced amps output, eventually by connecting a USB tester, may squeeze out more juice 
with the Powerchimp, 4 abused Eneloop AA's charge a Samsung B800B to "83%" 
with the MC3000, 6 abused Eneloop AA's can charge a Samsung B800B to "95%" 
efficiency of MC3000 NiMH powerbanking is high (~70%) but Powerchimp's is higher 
powerbanking works beautifully, is efficient enough and immensely fun! 
powerbank efficiency may be different/higher with LiIon's or LiIon4.35 and needs separate testing 

Q. Stop it already, you're boring me no offense.
A. Erhm excuse me?

Q. All the talk about AA powerbanks. Who on earth is interested in AA powerbanks?
A. C'mon gimme some credits. DC2 market release is well ahead still, which leaves me with time for such research and testings. 

Q. Ya yah. But don't forget to test similar configs with 18650's so that we can compare with our own commercial liion powerbanks. 
A. Your powerbank has the same efficiency as the Skyrc, you'll see. I'll show you more of my squirrel maths, sit tight. hehe


----------



## StandardBattery

Actually I think the powerbank feature in a charger this size is really not very important (AA or otherwise). Sure it's nice to have the check box, but sane people will like have a 8K-20K mAh powerbank if they need one depending on their size and weight tolerance. While mostly impractical for travel, during a power outage a powerbank feature in this large charger could be useful, so as I said it's a nice to have.

One important criteria for a powerbank is that it not discharge the batteries when it is unused. Some large Anker powerbanks are excellent at this... others... not so much. Component tolerances and specs are important to ensure this as often the design is OK, but the actual components used are a problem. These issues are often not checked in QC I have found as it's a harder measurement to make.

*So for something more interesting regarding this charger/powerbank; What is the drain on the batteries when left in the device and it has no input power?
*
Another thing I wonder about the SmartPhone App. The iOS app for the NC2500 is very annoying when you try to set the mode and operating parameters after the device is operating as it does not initialize the control parameters to their current state. I don't know if the Android app is the same, but I find this quite an annoyance if i want to change the current setting for instance, but i have to set all the wheels so they match the current state first, and I may not even remember the current cut off voltage and such.

I'm glad this charger will have PC link software since the Bluetooth link does not work well enough. insuffcient range, always having to reconnect, general pain in the butt when it is suppose to be a quick way to check on the program status.


----------



## _UPz

NC2500 app works fine in my android devices. You have the typical BT dissaventages like limited range / reconections if you are moving around with the device, but I find it pretty useful.


----------



## StandardBattery

_UPz said:


> NC2500 app works fine in my android devices. You have the typical BT dissaventages like limited range / reconections if you are moving around with the device, but I find it pretty useful.


So on Android, say you are doing a Discharge on the charger in slot-1, you get the app connected and when you see the charger screen you press '1' for Slot one to change settings, does it show that you are doing a discharge or is the mode just set to 'charge' or the last thing it was set to? Does it show the correct current for the current discharge? On iOS the answer is no to both of these questions.


----------



## Dubois

StandardBattery said:


> Actually I think the powerbank feature in a charger this size is really not very important (AA or otherwise). Sure it's nice to have the check box, but sane people will like have a 8K-20K mAh powerbank if they need one depending on their size and weight tolerance. While mostly impractical for travel, during a power outage a powerbank feature in this large charger could be useful, so as I said it's a nice to have.



I agree - nice to have as a back up, but I can't imagine ever using it as a powerbank.


----------



## kreisl

StandardBattery said:


> While mostly impractical for travel, during a power outage a powerbank feature in this large charger could be useful, so as I said it's a nice to have.
> 
> One important criteria for a powerbank is that it not discharge the batteries when it is unused. Some large Anker powerbanks are excellent at this... others... not so much. Component tolerances and specs are important to ensure this as often the design is OK, but the actual components used are a problem. These issues are often not checked in QC I have found as it's a *harder measurement* to make.
> 
> So for something more interesting regarding this charger/powerbank; What is the drain on the batteries when left in the device and it has no input power?



Hi sb, thanks for contributing some interesting thoughts.
As you know, measuring very low currents in low voltage circuits is a huge challenge in the entire world of electronics because of the very natural effects by burden voltage and shunt resistor, and my sub-100$ digital multimeter doesn't help it. The most truthful reading would be on the amps-setting but this setting lacks resolution. On the miliamps-setting and the microamps-setting, one gets incredible resolution but the numbers can't be trusted a hazelnut because they lack accuracy due to the shunt resistor effect. For some idea of order of magnitude lemme quote my UT61E readings anyway, i'll leave it up to HKJ to post much more accurate and higher resolution measurement values.

_UT61E on— _
With all cables unplugged from the MC3000, the standby current draw of a single battery of interest depends on the situation and configuration in the tray and may range from as low as ~0.00035A (1 Eneloop sitting next to 1 supporting LiIon battery) to as high as ~0.0025A (1 LiIon sitting solitarily in the tray). 
With the mains cable plugged in the MC3000 and the slot showing as READY (=the SNB LED is blinking green-red), the offline current draw of a slot from a single battery of interest is much lower, for example for 1 LiIon sitting solitarily in the tray less than ~0.0009A. When a charger program has finished, the SNB LED would turn from full red to full green in order to indicate that the proper program has finished and that the slot is still online. The current draw during this 'green phase' shows as "0.000A" on the multimeter (and switching to the miliamps-setting would mean going offline for a moment thus breaking the active circuit). During the green phase optional program parameters such as trickle charge xor restart voltage are active, so no worries. 
_—UT61E off_

No, not suitable as pocketable mobile travel mini powerbank lol. However, what does make it interesting enough to have/test/use apart from the check box is imho its ease of use, flexibility, and real fun, as mentioned before. Batteries can be exchanged on the fly, battery types can be mixed, any round batteries you have at home can be thrown at it (eventually in a 3xAA or 4xAA round battery serial holder to surpass the lower _powerbank operating voltage_ threshold), the algorithm cleverly proceeds with the next promising slot (tests highest voltage and lowest voltage drop), slots are used concurrently to support the main source battery, ..

There is no app out for me to test yet. I might get the Android app by next year.

With all the advances in the firmware updates, my PC Link software version has a hard time to play catch-up. It's the reason why i haven't shared screenshots as yet, pardon me. But for testing the charger's functionality, program parameters, performance, detecting bugs or quirks, my early PC Link software version still does me a beautiful invaluable service. :thumbsup:


----------



## _UPz

kreisl said:


> hmm... thinking of round 1s3p or 1s4p battery holders, in theory it would be possible to charge 12*Eneloop AA batteries (each at 1 amp) or 16*Eneloop AAA (each at 0.75A) in the DC2 simultaneously,



+ 1

i would be interested in this crazy test. Are you going to do it for us, do you even have that many Eneloops?


----------



## ptolemy

Have you considered balance charging option for 2-4 cells?


----------



## kreisl

ptolemy said:


> Have you considered balance charging option for 2-4 cells?


Hello ptolemy, thanks for the interesting suggestion! 

In fact the maker had the same exciting idea at the start of the product design, they wanted to integrate balance charge functionality somehow for the sake of it because the engineers already had so much experience and expertise in the specialized field. In theory it would be possible to combine the 4 independent slots internally to get a ready-to-go balancing cradle and that's exactly what users of 3/4 cell flashlight owners would need to make optimal use of their Turnigy/iMax/iCharger balance charger, i agree. However, by combining the slots to form a balancing cradle you lose the two key properties and original reasons why MC3000 was invented in the first place, namely to make it superior to a common hobby charger for charging single round batteries: 1. four main output channels instead of one (the bulk of hobby chargers sold on today's market comes with 1 single output, premium devices may have 2 outputs), 2. the independence of these very four channels. Balance charging is a needed means of charging a serial configuration —in our example: 2sXp, 3sXp, 4sXp— of (typically li-ions in a pack of) cells in a safe way by using 1 single main output; note that not all serial liions chargers on the market, see for example cheap multi-18650 power banks!, make use of balance charge technology. MC3000 comes with 4 separate outputs, each cell can be served directly and independently, so there is no need to make use of balancing technology. The device charges 4 batteries faster than a dedicated balance charger without compromising safety. Again, that's the whole point of its invention: multi-cell-flashlight users with hobby chargers can cut the **** with DIY cradles, single-output and complicated balance wiring, and enjoy the advantages of a four-output charger which effectively kills the need for any balance wiring. In short, employing the MC3000 bay as balancing cradle constitutes a severe technical contradiction and makes little logical sense. Therefore, after consideration and discussion the above idea was discarded. We simply couldn't answer the question: 
What would be the advantage(s) of it? :thinking:

Nonetheless the very first prototype, and i have a classified RL photo of its PCB :naughty:, had another approach in mind: equipping the machine with an extra balancing port, making it factually 2 separate devices (a four-bay charger & a balance charger) housed under 1 single casing. Crazy stuff!







Then i told the maker that, if they continued to add more and more questionable functionality, hardware, and complexity :sweat:to the project, i also really wanted to be able to play games on the device and have an integrated flashlight underneath!! And i kinda meant it since I was having wild wild dreams back then. Remember? - "dreamcharger". Anyway, that must have broken the camel's back because a week later after the PCB was made and i got a project update, both my suggested game play, the flashlight, and the extra balance charger had been dropped from the project altogether - not too surprisingly tbh.

One can't have it all i guess :mecry:

Q. Seriously, you had been dreaming about chargers and special features? Omg, pathetic.
A. Thinking in bed, not dreaming in the conventional sense. Yet i sometimes woke up with sound ideas for certain aspects or details, yes. Wonderful mornings they were!

Q. I see. But a flashlight integrated in a charger? You must be kidding, come on. I ain't no fool.
A. Ah forget the flashlight. I also accepted the dismissal of the whole balance charging idea fairly quickly. During the initial phase from scratch anything cool was admitted in the conceptual design. 

Q. Playing games on the LCD would definitely be cool. Maybe some ardent programmer could code alternative firmware with games and stuff i guess?
A. I guess so too. If the product becomes popular enough, some coder might feel motivated to share his h*cking work. Count me in as tester, yay!


----------



## N8N

Is there any anticipated release date for this charger?

I would like to get one for a friend, and/or keep it for myself and give her my old Maha C9000 as she has no charger at all and has been using my old Nitecore i4 v2 (which is fine, but then I don't have a Li-Ion charger)

Or should I just get another C9000? Hoping to purchase before Xmas.

Thanks!


----------



## StandardBattery

N8N said:


> Is there any anticipated release date for this charger?
> 
> I would like to get one for a friend, and/or keep it for myself and give her my old Maha C9000 as she has no charger at all and has been using my old Nitecore i4 v2 (which is fine, but then I don't have a Li-Ion charger)
> 
> Or should I just get another C9000? Hoping to purchase before Xmas.
> 
> Thanks!


Not until next year could be 4-6 months yet there is no firm date. 

Rather than buy another C9000 at this point just buy an XTAR VP2 Li-Ion charger. So your covered with a top charger. Sometime in the future you may want to get this charger so having a second C9000 at this point might not be worth it.


----------



## N8N

Thanks for that idea, I'll look into that charger some more, but I actually do use some LiFePO4s as one of my more used lights is a Streamlight Night Com UV, that looks like it would also accomplish the goal of combining two chargers that I have into one to save space/clutter.Since this thread is about the MC3000 if I have any questions after researching I'll post elsewhere/start a new thread...


----------



## kreisl

_UPz said:


> _UPz said:
> 
> 
> 
> i would like to see the PCB
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot me or what? :tired:
Click to expand...

No i didn't forget you. Sorry for the late response. The PCB is ever under reconstruction and therefore it makes little sense to post pictures of the prototype version PCB's. However one thing stays the same, namely the implantation of the awesome original Cortex-M3 Processor, so i should be safe sharing the below 1yr old detail with hand-soldered  components:






Btw I've seen photos of the unpopulated Dec-PCB and i could have my filthy hands on it sometime soon. For the above picture i actually taught myself how to disassemble and re-assemble the device, a very simple procedure. That's also how i _know _that it would be straight-forward to extend/enlarge the present metal bar heatsink, if one really wanted to: there is plenty of space below the backside of the PCB to install a really hefty heatsink plate after **cking the firmware for 3 amps discharge rates 


Q. "unpopulated Dec-PCB", i googled and tried to look up wikipedia. Could only find a reference back to my question, this very one, lol. What's that? I want one two. Haha.
A. My bad, i thought that you'd figure that one out. Dec means nothing short of December. The print date is noted on the PCB as you can see. Unpopulated means no soldered components.

Q. Thus, smart cookie as i am, the above pic is showing the populated Jan-PCB? Woah, i am really getting the hang of it, yaha!
A. Geez your enthusiasm. Jan-PCB is correct, yes. But don't let me comment on your smart cookie remark. Tss. 

Q. Meep?? (…) It's ok, thx. Then.. would you know what the changes are on the new PCB version? And will life slow down after Xmas? Anything?
A. Bluetooth has been added, nothing further afaik. Sure, scene and biz decelerate after winter like every year. No worries, I'm here to keep things going you betcha. Hehe.


----------



## Dubois

Kreisl, you mentioned 3xAA battery holders in one of your posts above. Are these any good? I bought a couple to use in a 2D Maglite but they were useless. Just wondering where to get good quality ones from. Sorry to go off topic.


----------



## kreisl

Wow, this thread has now 25,000 views…



Dubois said:


> Sorry to go off topic.


Dubois no off-topic at all 
With the MC3000, round adapters/round holders are a recurring topic of interest because the tray is large enough to host two _full-D_ size holders Ø33mm (tray: _D/C/D/C_ or _D/C/C/D_) or four _sub-D _size holders Ø30mm (tray: _sub-D/sub-D/sub-D/sub-D_). The commercial Ø30mm serial holders are out of the box perfect for loading the tray with 12×_AA_ (=4*3 _AA_) for *powerbanking by NiMH* batteries. Today I ordered another identical set of Ø30mm holders to mod them from serial to parallel configuration; then the modded holders can be used for *NiMH parallel charging* 12×_AA _at 1.0A/_AA_. The point is, with _D_ size holders one can only charge 8×_AA_ in parallel (tray: _3+1+3+1_ or _3+1+1+3_). A heads up, I am happy to report that testing the utility and performance of round holders in the MC3000 tray, either for powerbanking or for NiMH parallel charging, went successfully. Will present test details in future, no prob.

Source and quality of round holders. For our project I purchased a whole bunch, 6 different SKU's, of round holders from Fasttech but was not satisfied with most of them, especially the black plastic ones felt thin, light-weight, cheap, flexible, and were partly chipped. Most recently i've been lucky and sourcing fresh sets from a new seller and the products are much better build quality: white plastic, solid, heavier, sturdy, quite impressive (and also a bit more expensive), and with lower electrical resistance. Needless to say, I retired all FT round holders. Since i do consider round adapters to be essential or helpful optional accessories, they imo accompany the charger beautifully :kiss:, I plan to provide more detailed info on them, maybe with a table or some photos. Please re-check this post in near future for such additions, I am gonna fill you in. 


Q. Nice collection of round holders you got there. What's your current count? And why do you have that many?
A. 34. Four holders in action facilitate the testing of the feasibility of extended operation at its extremes, 3A charging, 2A discharging, parallel charging, NiMH powerbanking.

Q. The sub-D size parallel holders sound interesting. 12×AA charging, wtf really? Will the MC3000 retail package include any round holders? I am no modder after all.
A. Where to begin? 4-5 different types of round holders would imho be suitable to accompany the charger, for a total of 16-20pcs! Not gonna happen, sorry.

Q. No problem. I don't even have 12 AA's at home haha, do you? (…) Uhm have you got any info updates on the Dec-PCB, is it populated by now? 
A. Well yes now i do. Been shipped, i'm tracking it yay! Curious myself if the new DC2 prototype comes with an added blue LED at the side.


----------



## Dubois

Interesting. Thanks for the info - I'll keep checking this thread. Amazing that you could charge 12 eneloops in one go with this charger.


----------



## kreisl

​ _(porfa no haga clic)_​
Sorry I need to postpone the detailing on the adapters in my previous post. The new prototype has reached me albeit with old firmware and testing the performance of the altered hardware comes first! Thanks for your comprehension 


Q. Worm, MiX6, Tank007 E09, .. you're not trying to recharge these LED mini flashlights directly in the Skyrc charger, are you? I don't believe that would work too well.
A. Huh. Originally i thought of them as funny decoration in the charger tray for the photo. But now your question inspired me to really consider this possibility, thank you!

Q. Wth really? Haha, I fooled you. You cannot be serious. Charging an AAA battery contained in such a flashlight cannot work at all, or the flashlight would explode 
A. Lol dude. You got me there. Of course it can't work. Still wondering who's fooled whom here. Hehe.

Q. Aww man. Anyway, i clicked on the pic, did'nt understand the video, and couldn't see the bluetooth LED, is there? Which one is the latest build by the way?
A. The right one. Bluetooth LED you're saying? Ehrm, did you see that squirrel over there… erh lah-lalah-lalahh, gotta leave, bye!


----------



## _UPz

What's the tested mAh count of the MiX6Ti?


----------



## ko4nrbs

Well the MC3000 is on my list of must buys. I'll be watching for it's release to the general public.

Thanks *kerisl* for the information and updates!!
Bill


----------



## kreisl

Thanks for your interest Bill it is my pleasure!
UPz the MiX6 because of its metal shell causes a short and i haven't figured out a workaround yet. Will keep trying 


Power Me Up said:


> IMHO, 10 is a bit low. If I didn't have the USC and I was looking at purchasing the MC3000, I'd be asking for it to allow up to 100 as well (or at least 50) so that it could also do similar cycle testing without having to be babied all of the time.


Ooh, i noticed that a firmware update has become available on the server, earlier versions are gone yikes:




It seems that the max N of CYCLE got increased from 10 to the requested 99 :thumbsup:. Testing the new FW1.07 will take some time during which i hopefully will figure out what/how 1. and 4. are in detail :shrug:


----------



## Dubois

ko4nrbs said:


> Well the MC3000 is on my list of must buys. I'll be watching for it's release to the general public.
> 
> Thanks *kerisl* for the information and updates!!
> Bill



+1. We await with bated breath. 

Q. Who is kerisl?
A. Ah, Kreisl, I understand. (just joining in the fun while we wait)


----------



## ko4nrbs

It's encouraging that SKYRC is doing the R&D before the MC3000 is made available. Far too often some manufactures rush the R&D so they can get the product shoved out the door as fast as possible. It seems some manufactures have decided to let the end users work out the bugs for them. Unfortunately once a product has developed a bad reputation it is very difficult to recover from all the bad press. This is especially true now with the World Wide Web!!

Thank you SKYRC!! I appreciated your due diligence in perfecting the MC3000!! I'll be looking a little closer at your other products now.
Bill


----------



## LiteTheWay

Me too. I am eagerly looking out for this product to do essentially all my charging.




ko4nrbs said:


> Thank you SKYRC!! I appreciated your due diligence in perfecting the MC3000!! I'll be looking a little closer at your other products now.
> Bill


----------



## hammerjoe

I am just curious to know if we are getting close to have a launch date yet?


----------



## kreisl

As every year the calendar has been very busy these first months of the year, trade fairs here, trade fairs there, the team has been touring several new or upcoming products across continents as it is mandatory for manufacturing companies to do so, see the many spring trade fairs in the US.

The pdf catalog got re-updated, you may have noticed. It will be updated another few times this year, no doubt about it.

A first test version 1.0 of the iPhone bluetooth app was posted on Apple Itunes Store, i couldn't test it because i had accidentally bent the phone  and am now dependent on my Galaxy android for which the bluetooth app isn't ready yet for distribution.

Right now the country is on CNY vacation until the end of the month. Development work will resume thereafter to meet even higher standards, the existence of professional grade German charger-analyzers, and the two related products _UltraSmartCharger_ and _uCurrent Gold_ did help to raise the bar. We'll see more rounds of prototyping so the launch date is still pretty vague and afaik beyond spring.

Sorry for the long wait, i'll try to help it


----------



## Ferdinando

thanks for update.
do you know when MC3000 will be put on market ?


----------



## kreisl

afaik beyond spring ?


----------



## ko4nrbs

kreisl said:


> Sorry for the long wait, i'll try to help it


Much better for the development team to take all the time they need!! I'd much rather have it right than fast.
Bill


----------



## hammerjoe

Is it me or is this charger seems that it will not be priced for the consumer market? 

Are there any plans for a cheaper model without the Bluetooth stuff?


----------



## kreisl

hammerjoe said:


> Are there any plans for a cheaper model without the Bluetooth stuff?



The product will be priced for the consumer market, don't worry. For the flagship release MC3000, pro-like features and top hiq electronic components are part of the design process to learn what the bom costs do sum up to. Production cost be no major decision maker at this stage. But yes in a second future wave, with more economic considerations in place, the efforts would be to _reduce _dimensions and cost in order to offer a less expensive alternative, maybe a popular compact 2-slot LCD charger without bluetooth stuff. Depending on the reception of the expensivish MC3000 there are also ideas to _expand _on the present specs and components in some distant future to make it even more XXX  hehe.

As you can see, ideas in both directions exist. The success of the initial market release will determine the path to follow. Therefore much attention and time is taken now to ensure that the charger lives up to the expectations.

Woa. What a vacuous diplomatic post lol. Makes me sound like a politician


----------



## Dubois

ko4nrbs said:


> Much better for the development team to take all the time they need!! I'd much rather have it right than fast.
> Bill



+1. It seems these guys know what they are doing, and are doing it right.


----------



## hammerjoe

kreisl said:


> I also noted that users could easily expand the built-in metal heat sink plate. However that's not needed. Especially during charge 4×(2.5…3.0A) there are no temperature problems with the MC3000 and the fan usually stays off, depending on the room temperature. Generated heat becomes a factor at high discharge rates, 4×-1.0A, so the smart fan would turn on. Don't worry, the topic temperature/thermals/cooling has been fully addressed in the design of the device from the very start, and i don't expect any further changes. I tested charges and discharges at full load, and everything is cool :thumbsup:



Kreisl, I take it that even despite the fan there will be overheat protection as well?
What are the temperature cutoffs for NIMH, 16850 and other cells?

Can we adjust the cuttoff temp via the app?
How accurate is the battery temperature readings?

PS - We are now in march, any idea of release date yet? Spring is only a couple weeks away.


----------



## kreisl

Sorry for the late response. With CNY and international trade fairs and parallel product releases work had to be put temporarily  on hold but will resume soon enough . Yes we are now in march and to take wind out of the sails lemme foresee that spring can't cut it i am confident sorry. One thing i can assure you, this won't become a rushed release or development. 

Heat protection. The charger has fuses, measures 5 temperatures (4 batteries, 1 internal) and it's accurate and can be followed in real-time, +0.1°C on the PC screen, +1°C on the LCD. The user can set the internal temperature when the fan should kick in (General Setting, via LCD: {Auto|OFF|ON|20|25|…|45|50}°C ), and every stored program has a user-settable battery temperature for immediate program termination (Program Setting, via LCD, PC, or smartphone app: {OFF|20|21|…|69|70}°C or {OFF|68|69|…|157|158}°F) accompanied by a loud obnoxious warning beep ta-tü ta-tah melody. 

Temperature readings. Let's keep in mind, we have 8 temp sensors, 4 warm batteries, 1 populated warm PCB, no possible thermal insulation/isolation between the 4 slots/batteries, and all stuffed within the confines of a compact charger; this means that when you discharge a single 4.35V Samsung 18650 in slot1 at max discharge rate, you _are _going to notice a raise of slot temperature in the _empty _slot4. I checked the physics, it can't be helped: heat always finds its way to wander around and distribute over the place. One cannot really guide and isolate the different heat paths and heat sources. Heat is to dissipate quickly by distribution, hence one measurement (slot1) will also affect the measurement on the other end (slot4) by a noticeable bit. In other words, while the measurements are accurate per se (+0.1°C), they don't necessarily represent with 100% accuracy "_the _battery temperature" —a thing which doesn't exist anyway because temperature has always been a scalar field quantity _T=T(t,x,y,z)_— rather than the temperature at the sensor itself, and the sensor doesn't know/care from where exactly the heating originates. In fact, on the screen you can also see the influence of warm daytime versus chilly nighttime in the 24h-plot of the 'battery temperature' reading.

In short, temperature measurements are helpful for orientation yet should be taken with a grain of sugar. They represent the heat around the tip of the sensors and not from where it originates or accumulates. :devil:


----------



## Ferdinando

Thanks Kreisl for the update
If I have understood correctly, if I need realistic temperature measurement on one slot, it is better to avoid charging/discharging cell in near slot

can be a solution ?


----------



## fran82

Hi my friends..

When will be available this charger??


----------



## kreisl

fran82 said:


> Hi my friends..


hola fran y f. 😉
right now i am on the road thru china vacational tourist trip 
and i also plan to visit SZ factories flashlights chargers 😱
maybe i get a chance to see mc3000 tooling site and ask 
about dates and more

it's beautiful over here omg… 🌆


----------



## fran82

Hola amigo!!

Nice to talk with you again kreisler. 

I logged in here at cpf one year ago or more...

I really love this charger.

Hope you enjoy the trip!!! Have a good holidays there!


----------



## magellan

Hi Kreisl,

You said,

"The user can set the internal temperature when the fan should kick in (General Setting, via LCD: {Auto|OFF|ON|20|25|…|45|50}°C ),"

I dunno, this sounds like an accident waiting to happen unless there is an automatic override. Am I missing something here?


----------



## kreisl

i fail to see potential hazards, the prudent user would leave the general settings like that. if set to off, then he she lives in cold region and doesn't want to hear any ventilation noise. accidents through ignorance could always happen, think of plugging in US plugs. not a safe thing to begin with imho🙉


----------



## magellan

<<think of plugging in US plugs. not a safe thing to begin with imho[/QUOTE]>>

Well....if they're that clueless I'm not sure they'd be playing around with a sophisticated battery charger in the first place.


----------



## kreisl

you beat me




your point is valid though. ppl who spend the money on a biggish powerful advanced charger —its original title was Advanced Multichemistry Charger instead of Universal Multichemistry Charger— would know _something _about handling feature-laden flashlights, batteries and chargers imo thru explicit warnings in the user manual. I will ask if there is a general safety software override, apart from the physical fuses, or extreme testing under the OFF setting. 
Thanks but no worries at this point in time magellan


----------



## magellan

You're welcome. And I do know what you mean about plugging 120 into 240V. Cheap or small electronic devices probably won't have a switching power supply. But they don't have to be cheap, a friend blew out a small electric toothbrush one time that way. Another blew out what I shall call for posting purposes here a personal electronic device. You just can't assume the device can handle it.

Also, I almost learned the hard way about one of these travel surge strips. I have two that I take with me on trips:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003I3LSJ8/?tag=cpf0b6-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N3RFJDU/?tag=cpf0b6-20

We were in New Zealand recently and I was about to plug them in (thru a plug adaptor of course), N.Z. having 50Hz 240V, when I decided to read the labels, and it turns out the Voltage Valet was 120/240V but the Cellet wasn't.

So I plugged the Cellet 120V into the 120/240V Voltage Valet and all was well.

Now, technically you're not supposed to chain surge suppressors together (some will actually say this on the label). My educated guess is that arrangement affects the time constant of the protective voltage clamping circuit--which defeats the reason why you're using one in the first place.

There was one funny thing though, with that arrangement the USB ports would not work. To charge my iPhone I had to plug in the regular adaptor into one of the receptacles. I still don't understand why the USB ports wouldn't work.

Anyway, given all of the above it's not a trivial matter for the average consumer to travel these days with small electronic devices. One wonders how they manage. I consider myself fairly well informed and yet I almost screwed up with the Cellet model. And like I said, one really shouldn't chain surge suppressors either.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

magellan said:


> There was one funny thing though, with that arrangement the USB ports would not work. To charge my iPhone I had to plug in the regular adaptor into one of the receptacles. I still don't understand why the USB ports wouldn't work.


Some higher current hungry phones require more power than standard 500ma USB ports can provide and in that they typically have special circuitry required in the cable connecting them or the USB port for it to sense that it can indeed accept a charge from the device. There is information on how to add the circuitry to a USB port or cable to allow it to charge an iPhone etc on the internet.


----------



## magellan

Good point. I can see how that could be a problem with those. I had heard something about that but didn't know the details. I just thought these more power hungry devices would sort of "trickle charge" at a low level compared to what they can handle but from what you're saying I guess that doesn't happen. Interesting.

I just have a little iPhone 5C though and it works fine on 500 mA USB ports. The internal battery is only about 1430 mA if I remember right.

I also use these surge strips at home, though not chained together, and in that case the USB ports work just fine with my iPhone. I can however get a faster charge by plugging it into a 1.0 or 2.1 amp adaptor.

Plus USB needs to be stepped down to 5V so I was wondering if going from 240 to 120 to 5V was just too much for these surge strips to handle.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

magellan said:


> Plus USB needs to be stepped down to 5V so I was wondering if going from 240 to 120 to 5V was just too much for these surge strips to handle.


most AC walwarts etc use transformers and/or DC/DC converters such that power in is related to power out with pretty decent efficiency perhaps the worst are about 50% efficient which means if you want 2.1A at 5v that is 10.5 watt and at 50% efficiency you would need 21 watts of power at 120v/240v which gets you about 0.175/0.0875A. We are talking fractions of an amp at those high voltages and considering most power strips can easily handle 10 amps it is no contest.


----------



## magellan

Thanks Lynx Arc. That all makes sense.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

magellan said:


> Thanks Lynx Arc. That all makes sense.



Yes, and to drive home the point further you should look at the specs of a computer power supply these days they have some whopper out there for gaming machines that put out 1000 watts and have 5v outputs in the 20A range PLUS all the other outputs like a 3.3v at about 20A and 12v output in the 80A range. These are all simultaneously available.


----------



## magellan

Yowser. I had no idea. Being basically retired these days my computing needs are minimal and now get along most of the time with just an iPad. I hardly even use my PC or Mac Air laptop anymore. But in the old days I usually had the latest and greatest, fully tricked out PC.

What do they use those 20 amp outputs for, to power their custom sub-ohm hot-wire mech mods? Does the custom vaping community know about these machines? LOL


----------



## Lynx_Arc

magellan said:


> Yowser. I had no idea. Being basically retired these days my computing needs are minimal and now get along most of the time with just an iPad. I hardly even use my PC or Mac Air laptop anymore. But in the old days I usually had the latest and greatest, fully tricked out PC.
> 
> What do they use those 20 amp outputs for, to power their custom sub-ohm hot-wire mech mods? Does the custom vaping community know about these machines? LOL


3.3v on PC power supplies is typically for processor power and I think maybe some PCI-E cards too 5v is used for USB ports and with the new USB 3 standard being incorporated into newer motherboards that can output far more than 500 ma vs 900+ma for USB 3 I know hard drives use 5 and 12v, I'm not sure but I suspect these new SSD drives use 5v also memory chips used to use 5v but I think dropped down to 3.3v. In other words there isn't a lot left on a PC that runs on more than 5v these days other than motors in drives and fans.


----------



## magellan

Interesting. Thanks much for all the info, Lynx.


----------



## kreisl

i have given them a ring. seems like that they have been resuming development work, hmm interesting. major revisions of the circuitry and pcb layout as i heard. why i didnt understand well, ive been so happi with my 4(?) prototypes. maybe i get to pick up a new one during the course of my traveling trip lol

there should be news in a few. i am here to report so plz tune in when you can😏


----------



## kreisl

i am now in beijing, a geman without any knowledge of chinese omg lol… anyhow here another incremental update: 
with the major revisions of the pcb they've now also accomodated connection points for Four-Terminal-Sensing on the pcb per slot. Will be interesting to see if they really manage to make physical use of them with the sliders, rails and anode contacts. as i hear, Four-Terminal-Sensing was a reasonable feature requested by a charger expert user from the geman flashlight forum.

actual current flow thru the battery is being measured by a shunt in direct series similar to a multimeter measurement, so whatever internal resistance and voltage drop your multimeter has, the two displays of the current should be the same. current flow is constant current, no pulsing or PWM. note that hardly any chinese charger or hobby charger in the market measures the actual current thru the battery, while expensive geman battery chargers do so (e.g. tba).

firmware needs to be rewritten from scratch, so the possibility of user calibration is taken into account from that early on, nice.

i believe that we'll here more news during my trip thru nite china :wave:


----------



## ko4nrbs

Thank you and travel safe!!
Bill


----------



## fran82

Hi friends!

How are you going?

I was wondering if there is any news abut the mc3000... Because there is a new version of th opus Ct3100 (v2.2 with some issues fixed...)

If there is not any ETA and/or price I will end purchasing the opus XP

Cheers!


----------



## hammerjoe

Fran go ahead and purchase the Opus.
Kreisl said that the firmware is being rewritten from scratch which means it will be months before it would be ready.
I dont expect to see this charger in the market in 2015.


----------



## fran82

:shakehead
Ohhh

Pity. It was a very good charger.. But.. Even taking into account the time and the effort to release a final version... It will cost more than 100$


I feel..... Bad...


----------



## hammerjoe

I think price will be around the same as their 2500 charger.
A bit on the high side but with all the features discussed so far it would be worth it.

Time will tell.


----------



## Ferdinando

1 year more delay
sad news for me 
I've hoped one/two months only.


----------



## kreisl

definitely 2015 release if i test the new proto positively. i've been holding them back 

kreisl. kritikl. &#55357;&#56861;


----------



## fran82

Hmm.. 2015..

But.. In which month? December? 

I dont know what to do..


----------



## kreisl

i gave away all my opus chargers.
don't worry about price, but street price will most definitely be over 49.95$ because of high production cost and classical distribution chain as planned.


----------



## fran82

Hmm.. I may wait for the mc3000...

Of course.. I was hoping more than 50$.. I was thinking it will be 120-150$..

Tha max I can pay is 70...


----------



## ChibiM

they are giving you the real runaround!! pff.. this thing is taking longer than a pregnancy


----------



## _UPz

Hey kreisl,

Have you been in person in the SKYRC headquarters? Can you share some impressions? 

Have fun in your holidays!


----------



## kreisl

Hi UPz_, you`re posing the right questions in the wrong thread, quite off topic haha 

I am now again in the Shenzhen area, might dive into Hongkong bustle, i can see the HK coastal skyscrapers from this side of the bay, fantastic. Skyrc factory is far out of metropolitan SZ area, not anywhere near a metro station. Not much time left here, maybe i visit Fenix factory or a flashlight factory.

Interesting update to the thread, after the redesign they`re restarting the version count lol:


----------



## kreisl

Hi guys,

erh sorry..  as it seems the maker team could need your help —in form of a collection of varied opinions— on the following topic of concern which got raised when the mc3k pcb was redesigned for superior performance. The topic is the integrated power bank which i so much have been loving for testing and playing with in my earlier protos, it`s been part of my dream of a non-portable premium charger ever since, and it worked pleasingly well, as demoed in 1 or 2 of my youtubes.

The main concern is that having it in the mc3k raises the RRP price by an estimated ~10US$ (arguable figure btw). Personally, i would not mind paying the extra for having it included in the final mc3k release. The other concern is that it poses insurmountable engineering challenges when superior accuracy of the actual measurements of current and voltage and their derived quantities (+1mA, +1mV, +1mW, etc) is to be maintained. Well, it is true that you won`t find a professionally performing battery charger-analyzer on the market (Cadex; West Mountain Radio; UltraSmartCharger; ..) _with _an integrated power bank because adding adding such circuitry does ruin the accuracy measurements because of the RL behavior of (semi-conductor) parts and components. That`s also why Dave Jones left out some basic protection mechanism in the final release of his uCurrent Gold: it is easy to destroy his device by setting up cables or switches the wrong way 
On the other hand, the discharge current is limited (-1A for LiIon, -2A for NiMH, per channel) so +1mAh accurate results in this lower range of discharge currents are imho maybe not as important to the general buyer. So the set of questions is as follows:

1) Are you or aren`t you going to use (or play with) the mc3k power bank functionality occasionally, for any reason whatever?

2) Would you prefer to save the 10$ and have a simpler yet more accurate device instead?

3) Disregarding 1)&2), wouldn`t you _want to have_ this feature nonetheless?, or do you really not care for having it at all, or even find this feature silly and stupid? 

Please help by voicing your opinion on the topic..


----------



## Ferdinando

personally, 10 USD more to have that feature is not a problem.
However I think the main purpose of this device should be charging/analize batteries
so, if powerbank feature degrade that function, I prefer does not have it
(other than, the device probably will be more complex
and so more subject to faults and they will need more time to put it on market)


----------



## HKJ

As I have said before, I do not see the idea of a power bank in a stationary device. It might supply usb current when powered from mains for charging a phone or other stuff.
I want power banks to be transportable.


----------



## fran82

I dont want power bank function! And obviously not if it increases the price 10$...


----------



## Dubois

I totally agree with HKJ. A power bank, to be useful to me, should be portable, and something the size of this charger-analyser wll certainly not be. 

Far better imho to concentrate on accuracy of charging and analysing, and leave out the power bank functionality altogether.


----------



## tatasal

Well, I can have all my trouser's pockets re-designed so as to fit this beast so I can carry around the MC3000 just like the usual 4-cell powerbank!


----------



## The_Driver

I don't want any kind of powerbank functioniality. For me it has nothing to do with charging/discharging. Features and accuracy regarding that are much more important. 
BTW: which safety regulations will the charger pass?


----------



## hammerjoe

I wouldnt mind paying the extra $10.00 but only depending what the base price would be.
Its two different things an extra $10.00 for a $30.00 device than a $100.00 device.

As for the powerbank, I also dont see the need for it in a device like this. Theres lots of stand alone solutions out there.


----------



## fran82

No power bank please.

I prefer 10$ save in price.. It will not be cheap even without power bank


----------



## ko4nrbs

Personally I prefer devices that do what they are designed to do exceptional well without unnecessary accessories. The power bank will not make it an even better charger so why add it on? If anything enhance it's charging features and make it even more reliable.
Bill


----------



## Lynx_Arc

Would it cost more to just put a simple power output jack (3.7v nominal) that as no boost circuit or regulation on it that you can then plug into something external to supply whatever voltage and current output you desire from usb 2 or 3 to even 12v. Perhaps you could even sell a separate power bank with an input socket to plug into the charger also for extra.


----------



## >PETE<

I'd prefer not to have the powerbank. As previous people have commented, maybe support a 2 pin input so people can attach a powerbank if they want to in the future.

I'd rather have a more accurate and more reliable charger over one which has an inbuilt powerbank.

Could also be worth while having a generic 2 pin output power plug too which users can attach cradles into. This can then be used to charge other various battery types (9v's??)


----------



## kreisl

thanks from my part for your kind participation in this quick survey! 
Rest assured all answers have been noted and are being considered (power bank removal, USB plug application possibilities, 2 pin output, ..). Because of your comments, the makers are tending towards the dismissal of the power bank. I won`t cry, if that really happens (soon the final decision?), because my protos do have it and i am okay with their performance: unplugged device, -3mA drain per inserted battery. So if i wanted to play with power banking again, i could just resort to one of my old protos hehe. 

The engineers did cut the connections to the power bank circuitry and sent me the improvement in form of a mp4 video, it shows a pretty stable reading around 50mA for a user-set "-0.05A" discharge rate. Note that the current thru the battery is measured twice here: once via the low ohms current sense resistor on the pcb (currently under serious retesting: 10miliohms), and again with the fluke multimeter connected in series. No matter which resistance the wiring, cables and the battery has, both values *must* coincide because there can only be 1 current in 1 wire, and they really do. When the lab meter displays "-1.23456A/DC", then the mc3k LCD actually shows "-1.23A" (and continues to calculate the capacity with 10x higher resolution, namely at targeted +1mA accuracy). 






( real measurement photo of the above mentioned "-0.05" user setting.. erh taken at very opportune moment ;-)​
I must admit that the shared video/photo looks quite promising. But the ever engineering challenge is to maintain such accuracy when all 4(!) channels are at full load. Dissipated heat increases operating temperature of resistors, current sense resistors, transistors, IC`s, mosfets, so .. accuracy goes down the drain by such thermal interference. And I don`t know of any (common) EE PC simulation software, e.g. SPICE based ones, which takes RL thermal behavior of semiconductors into account in the EE simulations.

Gone maybe my power bank and under certain conditions you may get as accurate results as in the above recent photo but one should not expect same accurate results at any arbitrary conditions or at say extreme parallel loads. 

Attentive readers of this long cpf thread might have noticed that i had never detailed on the accuracy of my protos before. Now with the above promising result after the renewed design efforts, it`s my first.Time for some Chinese beer. kreisl. still somewhere in Shenzhen :candle:​


----------



## fran82

Have a good beer!!

Thanks for updating! Glad to "read" you again!!


----------



## ko4nrbs

As far as cooling I would like to see a temperature controlled fan. No need for continuous full fan speed when the charger is not hot. If the end result is adequate cooling I'm not bothered by hearing a fan run. It's a charger so I don't expect it to put me to sleep.

Thanks for all the updates. Enjoy China.
Bill


----------



## LiteTheWay

I don't care if it has a charger function or not and I don't mind paying $10 more for it - unless having that function makes the whole device more complicated in the sense that it does not do other things so well.

I do agree however, that a charger function seems superfluous on a non-portable device.


----------



## dvboy

This is a long thread,not sure if this has been mentioned,I contacted SkyRC and they told me the MC3000 will be available for purchase in Aug 2015.


----------



## kreisl

Hi (erh.. i know another d***boy ),
yes me too i heard that they are closing in, because firmware did not have to be rewritten from scratch, only the protocol afaik, so the UI is very much the same and the fw update is called 1.07, not "1.0" as seen on the fully revised PCB. I had suggested that the CHARGE and the DISCHARGE routine, say during a full REFRESH cycle, should not necessarily share the same rest time. So now the user can set a resting period A after charge routines and a resting period B after discharge routines, for full flexibility.

Maybe the major change in 1.07 is the full implementation of a user-friendly calibration method thru the LCD menu; no PC needed, no disassembly/teardown needed, only a digital multimeter: per slot *only 1* measurement of (resting battery) voltage *and 1* measurement of a 1A test discharge current, taken at any time independently from each other. The charger comes factory calibrated after FLUKE bench lab meters but the user may wish to use her personal home multimeter (MASTECH, UNI-T, etc) as reference. The following is arguable: 
Should a user-initiated FACTORY RESET restore the factory calibration data and thereby overwrite all user-entered measurements, or should the user calibration be kept alive after a "factory reset", what do you think?

I for myself own several UNI-T multimeters and, while they can be calibrated, i never felt the need to readjust their calibration. Strain, duty, aging, thermals, they all _may _affect the calibration of an electronic measurement device in the long run. So user-recalibration could make sense after a year of hard mc3k use .. to get a fair comparison of battery data between the years. At this point, please let me recall that the max supported discharge rate for LiIon is 1amp only (which is not high enough :devil: for some professional battery reviewers) and 2amps for NiMH. While it would be possible to raise this limit in a bulkier, more expensive MC3000 build with a bigger fan and bigger aluminum cooler, it cannot be raised by much. My guess is 1.5amps for Samsung LiIon (1.5*4.35*4 = 26.1 Watts :sick2.

The powerbank, it`s done. You guys preferred not to have it in trade of .., so the powerbank has been completely dropped, ouch :hahaha:
A decision with regard to the Four-Terminal-Sensing has been taken too :sweat:to everybody`s contentment.


Q. Man what are you gonna do with all your round holders now that the powerbank is out of the game?
A. Yeah tru, no further need for the serial ones. But i can still make use of the parallel ones, for parallel NiMH charging. It works, i`ve tested it before.

Q. Did you test the 1.07 firmware, somehow?
A. Because of the new protocol it shouldn`t work on my protos. And they are at home, in gemani.

Q. Btw how`s food and language? 
A. Been learning to eat noodles, rice, soup with chopsticks. Possible with wooden sticks, just kills my lil patience. I can say hi and thanksyou, that`s all. 

Q. Any luck with visiting flashlight factories or battery producers? 
A. No luck so far. Zebralight, Armytek, Eagtac wouldn`t let me know their factory locations and my application for Thrunite audit is still pending, sollie.


----------



## fran82

Hi my old friend kreisler!
Glad to see (read) you again!


Thanks for the effort you have put in to this.

Now.. To the question about calibration..

IMO, a factory reset should NOT change the calibration done at factory..

I think that for mosts users the calibration at factory is enough for years. And after a factory reset it will be tedious to do your own calibration. So I think that a factory reset shod not change the factory-made original calibration... But having a hiddend menu or something for your own future caljbrations is enough


What the others think? I think that is reasonable...

Cheers


----------



## ko4nrbs

I think it would be simpler and reduce the chance for error if a Factory Reset restored the Factory Calibration while eliminating the User's calibration. I would think the purpose of a factory reset would be to eliminate all stored User data anyway. Getting back to square one if mistakes are made or a User's calibration is corrupted is the only way to correct those issues.
Bill


----------



## fran82

Oh great!
I think that is even better!


----------



## Gauss163

If it is possible to switch back and forth between user and factory calibration (i.e. there are at least 2 calibration structures in memory), then why not simply have factory reset switch to factory calibration, without erasing the user calibration? If memory is available, then it might be useful to have a handful of named calibrations so that one can achieve sync with other devices (some of which may not have calibration capability).


----------



## _UPz

ko4nrbs said:


> I think it would be simpler and reduce the chance for error if a Factory Reset restored the Factory Calibration while eliminating the User's calibration. I would think the purpose of a factory reset would be to eliminate all stored User data anyway. Getting back to square one if mistakes are made or a User's calibration is corrupted is the only way to correct those issues.
> Bill



+1


----------



## roberta

ko4nrbs said:


> I think it would be simpler and reduce the chance for error if a Factory Reset restored the Factory Calibration while eliminating the User's calibration. I would think the purpose of a factory reset would be to eliminate all stored User data anyway. Getting back to square one if mistakes are made or a User's calibration is corrupted is the only way to correct those issues.
> Bill


+1


----------



## kreisl

roberta said:


> +1



Thanks everybody for helping with such questions/decisions during the development. :thumbsup:
I passed on your suggestions and the solution they are coming up with is that there will be a new _independent _item in GSV (the global setup view):



Factory Reset - To clear memory, clear user-entered program settings, clear GSV settings, and restore the factory defaults, but _not _restore the original (old) firmware version which was delivered ex factory. This reset will not affect any calibration data. 
Calibration Reset - To clear user-entered calibration data (typically 4 voltage measurements and 4 current measurements, total) and restore the original calibration which was delivered ex factory. This reset is independent from the above factory reset and affects calibration data only. All user-entered calibration data will be lost. By overwriting.:wave: 

@Gauss136
The makers are aware of your suggested method from iChargers but didn`t like it as much as the above simpler approach. I think it is okay and practical/logical for now. It could be altered to the switching method in future, depending on user demands.

Hopefully i can bag a new test sample before leaving the country.


----------



## fran82

It seems good kreisler.

I dont think you could take a same before leaving china... It will take moore time IMO


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> @Gauss136
> The makers are aware of your suggested method from iChargers but didn`t like it as much as the above simpler approach. I think it is okay and practical/logical for now. It could be altered to the switching method in future, depending on user demands.



The suggestion was not motivated by iChargers. Rather, a lot of professional equipment works that way (presumably because the budget is large enough to afford to hire someone who has actual training in UI design - which is rarely the case for hobby chargers).

In any case it is good to see that clearing the user calibration has been functionally separated from the general factory reset.


----------



## kreisl

Again some news, the folks found an agreeable way in the UI to offer also -2.00A discharging of *LiIon*, not only of NiMH. Of course, it is still not possible to offer the full (4*2.00*4.35)W discharge power at a time, but it is possible to discharge a single LiIon or LiIon4.35 at 2.00A constant current under certain conditions.

That`s good news.

Maybe i can share a photo of the cool  er


----------



## fran82

Yeah! It is good news! I am axious...


----------



## kreisl

i am allowed to share this







:duh2:


----------



## fran82

More anxious now :naughty:


----------



## tatasal

kreisl said:


> i am allowed to share this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :duh2:




Man, that's serious stuff right there ! Form follows function

The salivating is too much already!


----------



## _UPz




----------



## kreisl

The user manual is being written, the below parameter ranges are subject to change in higher FW version, feel free to comment or discuss. Default values, if clear, are underlined:


p#parameter settingsMC3000 firmware FW1.07iMax B6mini firmware 1.10iCharger 106B+ firmware 3.14DC2 comments01NiMH MODES

{Charge| 
Refresh| 
Break_in| 
Discharge| 
Cycle} 


{Charge|
Discharge|
Cycle}


{Charge|
Discharge|
Cycle|
Forming_charge}
02NiMH CHARGE rate{0.05|0.06|…|2.99|3.00}A{0.1|0.2|…|5.9|6.0}A{0.05|0.06|…|0.1|0.2|…|9.9|10.0}A1.00A
03NiMH CHARGE capacity cut-off{OFF|100|200|…|49900|50000}mAh 
safety factor=1.0 for DCHG
safety factor=1.0 for CHG
{OFF|100|200|…|49900|50000}mAh safety factor=1.0
{OFF|100|200|…|99800|99900}mAh safety factor=1.004NiMH CHARGE alt. algorithmsN/A{CHARGE Man|CHARGE Auto}{CHARGE Man|CHARGE Auto}whatzz man05NiMH CHARGE delta peak{0dV|1|2|3|4|…|19|20}mV{4|5|…|14|15}mV 
NiMH RE-PEAK {1|2|3} 
NiCd RE-PEAK {1|2|3} 
PEAK DELAY {OFF|1|2|…|5}minNiMH {1|2|3|4|…|19|20}mV 
NiCd {1|2|…|8|…|19|20}mVvoltage plateau "0△V"06NiMH CHARGE trickle charge{OFF|10|20|…|290|300}mA
{OFF|50|51|…|299|300}mA
{OFF|10|20|…|490|500}mAsame for NiCd, 
OFF for NiZn07NiMH CHARGE target voltage{1.47|1.48|…|1.79|1.80}VN/AN/A1.65V
08NiMH CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|1.30|1.31|…|1.44|1.45}V
N/AN/A09NiMH DISCHARGE rate{-0.05|-0.06|…|-1.99|-2.00}A
{0.1|0.2|…|1.9|2.0}A{0.05|0.06|…|0.1|0.2|…|6.9|7.0}A-0.50A
12NiMH DISCHARGE cut-off volts{0.10|0.11|…|1.09|1.10}V
{0.1|0.2|…|1.0|1.1}V/Cell{0.1|0.2|…|28.9|29.0}V0.90V
13NiMH DISCHARGE reduce{-Zero|-0.01|-0.02|-0.03|…|-1.98|-1.99|OFF}A
N/A{OFF|5|6|…|99|100}%14NiMH CYCLE number{1|2|…|98|99}
{1|2|…|4|5}{1|2|…|998|999}memory15NiMH CYCLE modes{C>D|C>D>C|D>C|D>C>D}{D>C|C>D}{D>C|C>D}16NiMH BREAK_IN currentCHG = 0.1C fixed to 2 decimals 
DCHG = -0.2C fixed to 2 decimals
N/AN/A
( FORMING CHARGE ≠ BREAK_IN )nominal
17NiMH BREAK_IN cut-off volts{0.10|0.11|…|1.09|1.10}VN/AN/A1.00V
44NiMH BREAK_IN mode{C>D>C|D>C>D}
N/AN/A18NiMH BREAK_IN rest time{0|1|2|…|239|240}min for CHG
{0|1|2|…|239|240}min for DCHGN/AN/A60min
19Temperature cut-off{OFF|20|21|…|69|70}°C {OFF|68|69|…|157|158}°F{OFF|20|21|…|79|80}°C
{OFF|68|69|71|…|174|176}°F{OFF|20|21|…|79|80}°C
{OFF|68|69|…|175|176}°Fbattery20Time cut-off{OFF|1|2|…|1439|1440}min{OFF|1|2|…|719|720}min{OFF|1|2|…|998|999}mintotal time21Rest Time{0|1|2|…|239|240}min for CHG
{0|1|2|…|239|240}min for DCHG{1|2|…|60}min{0|1|2|…|60}min22Output limitN/AMax Power Set: {50|51|…|59|60}WDischarge: {5|10|15|20}W 
Charge: {Auto|50|60|…|250}WKISS23Input limitmin volts: {10.0|10.1|…|11.9|12.0}Vmin volts: {10.0|10.1|…|10.9|11.0}Vmin volts: {10.0|10.1|…|14.9|15.0}V 
max amps: {1|2|…|21|22}AKISS24Back-light{Auto|1|3|5|ALWAYS ON|OFF}min {Always On}{0|5|10|…|95|100}%25Cooling Fan{Auto|OFF|ON|20|25|…|45|50}°C
{Auto|OFF|ON|68|77|…|113|122}°F
{Auto}{OFF|Auto|ON}26Beep Soundpitch {OFF|1|2|…|15|16}
Key stroke {ON|OFF} 
Buzzer {ON|OFF}Key stroke {ON|OFF} 
Buzzer {ON|OFF} 
Completion {5×|3min|Always|OFF}two octaves27Settings-saved User Programs{01|02|…|29|30}
{1|2|…|9|10}{00|01|…|08|09}28LITHIUM MODES

{Charge| 
Refresh| 
Storage| 
Discharge| 
Cycle} 


{Charge|
Storage|
Discharge}


{Charge|
Storage|
Discharge|
Cycle|
Monitor}
29LITHIUM CHARGE rate{0.05|0.06|…|2.99|3.00}A{0.1|0.2|…|5.9|6.0}A{0.05|0.06|…|0.1|0.2|…|9.9|10.0}A1.00A
30LITHIUM DISCHARGE rate{-0.05|-0.06|…|-1.99|-2.00}A
restrictions apply at ≥ |-1.01A|

{0.1|0.2|…|1.9|2.0}A{0.05|0.06|…|0.1|0.2|…|6.9|7.0}A
-0.50A
31LiIon CHARGE target voltage{4.00|4.01|…|4.24|4.25}V
Lilo {4.08|4.09|…|4.19|4.20}V
LiPo {4.18|4.19|…|4.24|4.25}VLilo {3.90|3.91|…|4.19|4.20}V
LiPo {4.00|4.01|…|4.29|4.30}V4.20V41aLiIon CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|3.98|3.99|…|4.17|4.18}VN/AN/A32LiIon STORAGE voltage{3.65|3.66|…|3.99|4.00}V Lilo {3.70V} 
LiPo {3.80V}Lilo {3.75V}
LiPo {3.85V}3.80V33LiIon DISCHARGE cut-off{2.50|2.51|…|3.64|3.65}VLilo {2.9|3.0|3.1|3.2}V
LiPo {3.0|3.1|3.2|3.3}VLilo {2.50|2.51|…|4.09|4.10}V 
LiPo {3.00|3.01|…|4.19|4.20}V3.00V34LiIo4.35 CHARGE target voltage{4.10|4.11|…|4.39|4.40}VN/AN/A4.35V41bLiIo4.35 CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|4.08|4.09|…|4.32|4.33}VN/AN/A35LiIo4.35 STORAGE voltage{3.75|3.76|…|4.09|4.10}V N/AN/A3.90V36LiIo4.35 DISCHARGE cut-off{2.65|2.66|…|3.74|3.75}VN/AN/A3.30V37LiFe CHARGE target voltage{3.40|3.41|…|3.64|3.65}V{3.58|3.59|…|3.69|3.70}V{3.40|3.41|…|3.89|3.90}V3.60V41cLiFe CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|3.38|3.39|…|3.57|3.58}VN/AN/A38LiFe STORAGE voltage{3.15|3.16|…|3.39|3.40}V {3.30V}{3.30V}3.30V39LiFe DISCHARGE cut-off{2.00|2.01|…|3.14|3.15}V{2.6|2.7|2.8|2.9}V{2.00|2.01|…|3.59|3.60}V2.90V40LITHIUM CHARGE termination{Zero|0.01|0.02|…|2.98|2.99|OFF}A


{0.1C|0.2C}
{0.1C|0.2C}0.1*CHG
45LITHIUM DISCHARGE reduce{-Zero|-0.01|-0.02|…|-1.98|-1.99|OFF}A
restrictions apply at ≥ |-1.01A|

N/A{OFF|5|6|…|99|100}%42LITHIUM CYCLE modes{C>D|C>D>C|D>C|D>C>D}
N/A{D>C|C>D}
43LITHIUM CYCLE number{1|2|…|98|99}
N/A{1|2|…|998|999}memory


----------



## fran82

Oh my god!!

I love this charger even more!

I am moooooore anxious 

I like the parameters. Seems ok..


----------



## fran82

Oh my god!!

I love this charger even more!

I am moooooore anxious 

I like the parameters. Seems ok..


----------



## chuckhov

Since you said it TWICE, I for one, believe you

-Chuck


----------



## tatasal

23Input limitmin volts: {10.0|10.1|…|11.9|12.0}Vmin volts: {10.0|10.1|…|10.9|11.0}V






If this unit is to have car-charging facility, might as well change the Input limit to range from 10vdc to 16vdc?


----------



## kreisl

Hola fran82, great to see your interest, you re finally back a regular visitor on the flashlight forums! 

tatasal what s the DC voltage supply output range of the car? The General Setup View (GSV) has an item which says
Input: 14.8V>11.0V
filling exactly the permissible 18chars per line in standard font.
Tbh i dont know what it means haha. The "14.8V" seems to be the measured voltage of the power supply unit, one cannot change this value. The "11.0V" is the value which the user can edit and set to anything between 10.0 and 12.0V. I am guessing that this is the minimum supply voltage which the device accepts for operation. If you set it to 12V, it would mean that you dont want your supply voltage to drop below 12.0V,i.e. that you prefer a rather stable voltage between 12V and the max allowable voltage (which is 18V afaik). The label for the PSU plug says "DC INPUT 11-18V". GSV indicates that the lowest acceptable supply is 10.0V, i need to reconfirm it with the maker (EDIT: _2015-05-31, status: unconfirmed_). If that is true, then your 10-16vdc falls into the 10-18vdc range, so no problem .. as long as the car can deliver the required amperage.

The dimensions of the charger arent very portable nor is the weight. For spacious cars no big deal


----------



## fran82

Yes! It was a confusion..

It is MIN input voltage between 10 and 12.

So the charger will accept between 10 and 18 volt.

Great!!


----------



## romteb

I need this charger in my life, dedicated shrine in construction.


----------



## hammerjoe

Is it too soon to be talking about price range for this charger?

At this point after all thats been said about the MC3000 price is the only factor that decides if I will be able to get one or not.


----------



## fran82

Someone said.. Between 60 and 100 USD....


----------



## _UPz

fran82 said:


> Someone said.. Between 60 and 100 USD....



I am pretty sure this charger will be really worth every penny paid for it.


----------



## kreisl

looks like they got the new pcb for finals!

the .. wth 







lovecpf​


----------



## fran82

What can be read at the bottom right?

"HI KREISLER"?? 

Wtf???

They have good humour sense!


----------



## _UPz

lol, HIKRSL


----------



## virus_59

I like this charger and I would buy it.

But I want to replace them all my chargers:
- NiMh
- Li-Ion
- *USB*

I would like to have more usb ports, at least 2 (with automatic selection of coding). 

Also, I need information about USB-out on display: voltage, current, mAh/mWh.

Ideally, I would very much like to have support for USB 3.1 and all the charge profiles (at least up to 12 volts):
- 5 volts and 1.5 / 2.0 / 3.0 Amps
- 12 volts and 1.5 / 3.0 / 5.0 Amps


----------



## Dubois

virus_59 said:


> I like this charger and I would buy it.
> 
> But I want to replace them all my chargers:
> - NiMh
> - Li-Ion
> - *USB*
> 
> I would like to have more usb ports, at least 2 (with automatic selection of coding).
> 
> Also, I need information about USB-out on display: voltage, current, mAh/mWh.
> 
> Ideally, I would very much like to have support for USB 3.1 and all the charge profiles (at least up to 12 volts):
> - 5 volts and 1.5 / 2.0 / 3.0 Amps
> - 12 volts and 1.5 / 3.0 / 5.0 Amps



:welcome: Wow, lurking for 14 months before posting. Not sure what you want to use something like this for USB support.


----------



## braddy

Does it still charge D batteries, and will it discharge 18650 to storage voltage?


----------



## kreisl

i will agree with Dubois, the device is mainly a charger-discharger, not a USB meter. my favorite USB meter is the inexpensive KCX-017, so people can just use such a gadget as accessory. the USB power output is 2.1A / 5V, and that`s about it, no serious plans to expand this already neat offer afaik.

yes it still charges/discharges D batteries, without adapter.

yes it will discharge/charge 18650 to storage voltage. you can set for example "3.75V" as storage voltage, insert an empty or full 18650 in the slot, start the program, and when the program is finished, you remove the battery and can measure 3.750V, stable, on your multimeter. the storage operation mode employs CV-phase and inverse CV-phase, called Discharge Reduce, to reach the storage voltage as closely as possible. termination current can be set to 0.01A or lower.


----------



## chuckhov

To begin with, will just the Hobby Shops have this, or do you think it will come out of the gate at the Usual Flashlight Suspects also? - US Dealers and the Big Chinese houses?

I have a charger/s now, but this I see as a Must Have!

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## virus_59

Dubois said:


> ... lurking for 14 months before posting ...


Just read ... 



kreisl said:


> i will agree with Dubois, the device is mainly a charger-discharger, not a USB meter. my favorite USB meter is the inexpensive KCX-017, so people can just use such a gadget as accessory. the USB power output is 2.1A / 5V, and that`s about it, no serious plans to expand this already neat offer afaik.



Pity. But I don't not need a USB-meter, I just a very comfortable to see (on the ammeter) that charging is complete.

I mean that now I have three chargers (each of which takes its socket with a switch, it's more like a power plant control panel ), and would like to have everything in one.

Maybe in the future


----------



## kreisl

Chuck good question.. I believe that they don`t know what to do with this atypical product in their RC Hobby catalog, who of the regular RC hobby folks would be interested in it, those laugh about our single cells 

Maybe a flashlight distributor would be a more appropriate point of departure


----------



## chuckhov

No doubt that there are steps being made on both sides Flashlight Distributors and SkyRC as we speak -Well, Here's to Hoping!

Thank you,

-Chuck


----------



## Dubois

It would be nice for us Europeans to see this charger available from the better Chinese dealers (like HK Equipment).


----------



## gen127

Been lurking for a while in this thread as I am interested too in the MC3000. Hope it is released soon so that we can read some reviews


----------



## psychbeat

Just to confirm-
There is a 4.35v charging option on the final update ya?
I'm hoping to justify buying one of these by getting a few D1s or something so I'll actually "need" it rather than want it hahah


----------



## Dubois

psychbeat said:


> Just to confirm-
> There is a 4.35v charging option on the final update ya?
> I'm hoping to justify buying one of these by getting a few D1s or something so I'll actually "need" it rather than want it hahah



That is a brilliant idea - I will buy some 4.35v cells, then explain to my wife that I made a mistake, and need a new charger to get the full use out of them. I love it.:thumbsup:


----------



## chuckhov

4.35v - Yes!

And, please SkyRC, make it where I can use it without taking the charger apart every time, going from 3.6 - 4.2 - 4.35. - Sound familiar? 

I have a Nitecore D-4, and use the LiFePO4 setting (3.6v) to charge to Storage level for Li-Ion - Very handy.

Please tell me when and where I can send the money! - SOON, I hope

Thanks,

-Chuck


----------



## Lynx_Arc

psychbeat said:


> Just to confirm-
> There is a 4.35v charging option on the final update ya?
> I'm hoping to justify buying one of these by getting a few D1s or something so I'll actually "need" it rather than want it hahah



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389700-SkyRC-%97-IFA-2014-%97-MC3000-charger-analyzer&p=4500568&viewfull=1#post4500568
There was always that option from this post in the thread from what I have seen.


----------



## kreisl

psychbeat said:


> Just to confirm-
> There is a 4.35v charging option on the final update ya?



34 LiIo4.35 CHARGE target voltage {4.10|4.11|…|4.39|4.40}V N/A N/A 4.35V]

Erh.

Confirmed :huh:

Kreisl now in Guangzhou


----------



## chuckhov

Are you going to be bringing one home with you?

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## kreisl

Most definitely not. 
I passed through Shenzhen, am now in the centre of Hongkong, and i got nothing in my bags but some Eagletacs, Eneloops and a cheap new 4bay charger yet not by Skyrc 

I did contact the company and they plan to send me a mass produced review unit anytime "soon"


----------



## tatasal

kreisl said:


> and a cheap new 4bay charger yet not by Skyrc



Hey my good friend kreisl, please not that one for us, I want the MC3000 now! haha

Edit: I just noted this thread has already passed the milestone 50K views! (and still no charger) :mecry:


----------



## Almighty1

I read the entire thread after ordering a Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 from gearbest.com yesterday and gotten a confirmation e-mail that it has shipped by Netherlands Post Surface Mail which can take from 25-50 business days (5-10 weeks), does anyone know if one can charge size D batteries or not? In any case, glad to read about the SkyRC MC3000, maybe with luck, it will be out before I receive my Opus! LOL. In any case, I might have missed it but what is the largest battery capacity the MC3000 can handle as the NC2500 is 3500mA and the Opus and MAHA C9000 are both 20,000. It seems they list the Battery capacity range with the NC2500 but not with the MC3000 from both the posted pictures of the specs and the PDF of the catalog.


----------



## Sharkie

I was looking at the 2500 charger and found 2 things while looking around. First theyre is a new model coming the 3000 so i read and subscibed to this thread and second this site where theyre is so much information !
Being a neewbie on specialized charger, recycler, i think the 2500 will satisfy my need




for NiMh battery's . I use a old Sony charger but want to make sure these AA battery work longer. I run cycles on my heli battery.

What do you think, should i just take the 2500 and see about the 3000 ?


----------



## Huntakillaz

virus_59 said:


> I like this charger and I would buy it.
> 
> But I want to replace them all my chargers:
> - NiMh
> - Li-Ion
> - *USB*
> 
> I would like to have more usb ports, at least 2 (with automatic selection of coding).
> 
> Also, I need information about USB-out on display: voltage, current, mAh/mWh.
> 
> Ideally, I would very much like to have support for USB 3.1 and all the charge profiles (at least up to 12 volts):
> - 5 volts and 1.5 / 2.0 / 3.0 Amps
> - 12 volts and 1.5 / 3.0 / 5.0 Amps



Just came across this thread, this charger seems great!
May have to hold off a bit from buying the VC4 till this comes out.

But yeah i agree with you virus_59, it'd be nice if it had support of *Charging other devices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#PD) *over Usb3.1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#3.1) with type C connector (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C)
As manufacturers will be moving to this profile and connector for usb devices 2016 onwards (Some devices will start poping up towards the end of this yr).
So i'd be a great way to support future usb.

Also being able to use usb3.1's power delivery to charge the batteries would awesome as well. Since USB 3.1 adds more options: 2 A at 5 V; 5 A at 12 V; and 5 A at 20 V.


But i can understand that 3.1/type c connector is more costly so maybe in a future revision

Info on USB 3.1 & how it will change future tech.
http://www.em.avnet.com/en-us/desig...1-A-Brilliant-Example-of-What-USB-Can-Be.aspx


----------



## kreisl

Huntakillaz said:


> But i can understand that 3.1/type c connector is more costly so maybe in a future revision


As i hear the hardware is 100% done, v1.2 goes to mass production, i am sure that USB 3.1/C will be considered in a future revision since the charger already comes with Bluetooth 4.0 which only recent smartphone models support. Firmware is 99% done except for cosmetics ('How spell internal temperature on a small lcd? Intern Temp, INT.TEMP, Int.Temp, INTERNAL TMP, what gives anyone cares'), User Manual is also done (i am composing my own style manual with more helpful info and an ever growing FAQ's, even though the product doesn't really need that because it is so easy to operate). The PC Link software version, at this point, is practical and useful enough but not highly developed tbh, i see much room for continued development here, crossing fingers. The smartphone app is developed by third-party as i understand and it is untested by me, looks like the iPhone iOS version is working just fine, i cannot find the Android version on Google Play. Most 2015 efforts were focused on the hardware and firmware umdesign, hopefully future efforts will be spent on the expanded coding of PC Link and Android software.







Q. Man so you're back from the .CN trip? What did you bring home, some good stuff?
A. Yes i am back *sigh*. Hmm, nothing which one couldn't buy on ebay! No mc3k sample. I mostly brought back memories of an intense wonderful time there. Invaluable experience.

Q. Why did it take so long for the company to develop the whole product thing? It's not rocket science.
A. Folks were working on other daily tasks in parallel so total of invested man-hours wasn't that much. Tru tru, you'll be surprised how simple the electronics look!

Q. I still don't get it. Who's the targeted audience for this kind of product? Obviously not RC hobby people. And 2amps discharge limitation is hardly useful for industrial testing. 
A. Good point. I dunno … erhh


----------



## Huntakillaz

Can you fit "Internal Temp" as Int. Temp usally stands for initial

Can use Sys Temp for system temp?


----------



## kreisl

"Internal Temp: 28C" 
would fit exactly (18 chars allowed) but it doesn't look supernice in context, a bit too long looking imho. I do like your other suggestion best of all
"Sys Temp: 28C"
and i'll insist that they'll adopt it in firmware and manual, thank you! :huh:

Of course, that was only 1 arbitrary example. Some tasteful copy-editor needs go over everything and take the decisions. I just can't wrap my mind around such things. Wrecks my nuts.


----------



## Huntakillaz

Any updates on this charger?


----------



## kreisl

No hard updates these days. Development was completed with satisfaction weeks ago as you know, so everything continues to advance step by step down the pipe. Process stages along the line should include a.o. systematic recording of v1.2 performance data for calculation of tolerance specs, radiation emission tests, also of blue tooth, ordering of components, preparation of parts e.g. the CNC milling of the aluminum heatsink cooler, tooling(!), trial production run, burn-in tests, CE certification, finalization and printing of manual and the retail cardboarding, and finally the start of mass production. No, finally would be sending me a review sample. :laughing:

At the moment they're still at the beginning of the line i dunno. Meanwhile i am ordering 2 other LCD chargers with discharge capacity test functionality, similar to the BT-C3100. As with quality flashlights, if one cannot take an easy decision, you'll be happiest when owning them all :devil:. Great for comparison in the MC3000 review if they prove noteworthy.


----------



## Sharkie

When can we expect to be able to order this new model ?


----------



## SubLGT

Sharkie said:


> When can we expect to be able to order this new model ?



v1.0 in 2016
v2.0 in 2017


----------



## kreisl

SubLGT said:


>








I've cropped the below 3 image sections from a half-populated PCB photo which i got. All components on engineering samples like this one are hand-soldered, and formal recording of the device performance is still in progress as i heard for another very last week. On the first pic one can see the 4 black temperature sensors for the slots and 2 black temperature sensors for SYS TEMP, i.e. the internal temperature. The metal block is the aluminum cooler/heat sink:






See next pic, on the PCB flipside upper region one can easily identify the 4 commercial sub-Ohms current sensors which were researched to have the lowest temperature coefficient possible coupled with very low tolerance. Expensivish:duh2: stuff but they allow accurate *measurements of the actual current through the battery* within the common operating temperature range without compromising the performance of the original circuitry. The numerous cutouts on the PCB are air vents (_Belüftungsschlitze_). Cold air is sucked in by the ventilation fan from the bottom side of the charger, penetrates the PCB through these air vents, convects along the aluminum cooler to remove its heat, and the heated air :devil: is finally released through the plastic grille at the top side of the charger (_ caution at utmost load: hot plastic surface!_). 






My impression is that there aren't too many components on the PCB. Wonderfully economic effective design:






EDIT: There is some news, as i understood the trial production of XXX pieces has been scheduled by now and will be completed by the end of August, which is another 4.0 weeks from today on. 


Q. Woot another month to see actual output from the pilot run? I can't hold off any longer, i've been desperate!
A. Sorry, i certainly feel with you. I check daily myself for info snippets. Been a drought for weeks, it's killing me argh!

Q. And what about the above image sections, why not showing the middle part, what are you hiding from me?
A. Hehe.

Q. Btw i find your masking in the PCB pic rather lame. You really don't need to do this, do you know? 
A. Yada yada yada i never really understood cooking. You put so much time, energy, and expense into it, and then you eat it, and it's gone.


----------



## Dubois

Thanks for the update, kreisl. Looks like this beast will soon be hitting the shelves.


----------



## chuckhov

^^^

Well, I sure do hope so!

I only have 3 Li-Ion chargers... I'm dyin' over here

-Chuck


----------



## light-wolff

kreisl said:


> ... 4 commercial sub-Ohms ...


Advertise "contains 4 precision sub-Ohms" and vapers will buy the charger like crazy.


----------



## kreisl

yes i agree it's kinda silly


----------



## KenSrf

Wow nice! :naughty: This one is way ahead of the competition on paper. Are there any price rumors floating around?


----------



## kreisl

KenSrf said:


> ahead of the competition on paper



The competition, Nietcore i4 has the advantage that their chargers are smart. You throw in any LiIon or NiMH battery and the i4 begins to charge it already, no need to press any buttons or think about settings. But this has changed, the D4 and Xtar chargers have user switches too now (LiFePO4) and current selection buttons. About paper .. they're finalizing the typesetting of the user manual these days and i think they're letting me have a look at the production pdf, maybe next week or so 

price, you mean RRP?, is still unknown with them afaik but it is guaranteed over 50 ouch


----------



## KenSrf

It was mentioned several times in this thread that charger will be released in august. Is that still the plan or did they postpone it?


----------



## kreisl

uhm. we'll see some mass production output later this month yes that is still the plan and dealers could place orders then i guess. Shipping out to dealers would happen in september logically.

maybe i'll be the very first tester to receive a retail unit. i've cleared my schedule for september, i'll be ready to receive


----------



## tatasal

kreisl said:


> maybe i'll be the very first tester to receive a retail unit.



Make me the second...


----------



## Dubois

kreisl said:


> maybe i'll be the very first tester to receive a retail unit. i've cleared my schedule for september, i'll be ready to receive



I would be interested to read your comments on the accuracy of this charger. Sometimes reviews don't comment on the true accuracy of some measurements.


----------



## kreisl

Dubois said:


> Sometimes reviews don't comment on the true accuracy of some measurements.


You must be referring to mAh measurements i see. Yes it would be very instructive to compare it to the accuracy of the 4-bay competition and also of RC hobby chargers. I gave away my Opus BT-3100 and never tested its v2.2 version, a nice contender otherwise. It would be a pity or unpardonable omission when reviews in the past didn't evaluate the true accuracy in detail, did they?
:candle:

tata


----------



## HKJ

kreisl said:


> It would be a pity or unpardonable omission when reviews in the past didn't investigate the true accuracy in detail, did they?



How many reviews have you done where you check the accuracy of a analysing charger?
What equipment did you use?

I am looking forward to your review of the MC3000 with a detailed analysis of its precision.


----------



## crea7or

So, I see no option for 12v power source(to charge in car) did I miss something?


----------



## Lynx_Arc

crea7or said:


> So, I see no option for 12v power source(to charge in car) did I miss something?



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389700-SkyRC-%97-IFA-2014-%97-MC3000-charger-analyzer&p=4508183&viewfull=1#post4508183


----------



## kreisl

Thx Lynx Arc!

Some of my DC2 prototypes came with 2.1mm DC center pin (like _Maha, Nietcore, Opus, Trekstor, Xtar, NC2500_), some with 2.5mm pin (like _IMAX B6_); the maker team decided for the 2.5mm on the production version to sustain the 4A+ max input. _Nitcore Maha_ _Xtar _car chargers come with a 2.1mm female plug and for example a 2A rating. If you can source a car charger cable with 2.5mm female plug to mate with mc3k male receptacle 2.5mm center pin —my wild guess is that they don't exist on the current market—, then i don't see any reason why one couldn't operate the charger at modest loads in the car. The charger's input is generously wide rated between *11 ~ 18V* DC. No, such a car charger cable will not be packaged as free accessory item in the retail box. If you can find one on BG, GB, AliXpress, Alibobo, Toaboa, Ebuy, Uxcell, etc then please let us know, i luv possessing accessory items even if i never use them.

@HKJ, i'll do the best i can do with my standard equipment, no prob. With it i can easily tell if one analyzing charger (or hobby charger) is much more accurate or precise than some other analyzing charger (or hobby charger). Comparison review is helpful info for the readers and me. No hard feelings heh


----------



## Lynx_Arc

I was looking around and saw several cables with 2.5mm plugs but a 4A or greater setup is elusive but you can find 2A cords that are for portable dvd players and there is a bunch of cords on alibaba but most are using 20+ gauge wire which probably isn't sufficient for a 4A cord.


----------



## Bizill

I'll be waiting for this one. I just got done soldering magnetic balance leads for my icharger 106b and what a pain it was. All the wires and magnets will get annoying so I'm eagerly awaiting this particular charger. The lower amp models out there by various manufacturers don't impress me much.


----------



## B-2Admirer

What is the charge procedure of the this charger for NiZn cells? I mean what are the charging current waveform and value and how do they change with time? I really, perhaps desperately, need a reliable NiZn charger, the sooner the better (because I already have AAA NiZn cells and I already have an urgent use for them, but I haven't got anything worthy to charge them with).


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> I mean what are the charging current waveform and value and how do they change with time?


PowerGenix is the only notable NiZn battery maker in the world and they are leaving the AAA AA field. You can check their spec sheet pdf's for the optimal charging algorithm. It's a CC-CV algorithm similar to LiIon charging. All NiZn chargers use this algorithm, so does mc3k.

At home i don't have NiZN nor RAM batteries so i cannot test these BATT TYPE's myself. 

Which other NiZN chargers have you been looking at?


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> PowerGenix is the only notable NiZn battery maker in the world and they are leaving the AAA AA field. You can check their spec sheet pdf's for the optimal charging algorithm. It's a CC-CV algorithm similar to LiIon charging. All NiZn chargers use this algorithm, so does mc3k.
> 
> At home i don't have NiZN nor RAM batteries so i cannot test these BATT TYPE's myself.
> 
> Which other NiZN chargers have you been looking at?


PowerGenix ceased production of AAs long ago and they never made AAAs.

Does MC3000 really supply _constant_ current or is it pulse-width modulated?

I have also been looking at UltraSmartCharger, about which, I assume, you already know.


----------



## kreisl

amazon search < _powergenix_ > includes AAA hits and NiZn hits branded BIP and Ultracell. silly of me but as long as i haven't seen in person any actual Ultracell factory and actual BIP factory producing NiZn AAA/AA batteries, to make my life simpler KISS i am going to assume that their cells are actual produce by the PowerGenix factory too, just rebranded, relabeled. similarly as some FDK produce enters the market labeled Eneloop. this is a personal assumption and i am not claiming that BIP and Ultracell NiZN cells are actually produced by PowerGenix; my personal assumption might be wrong and i wouldn't mind np.

MC3000 supplies really _constant _current. The current (for charging or discharging) is truconstant, not pulsed. Btw the max charging current is 3A/slot; a common pulsed charger, like Maha MH-C9000, would then use 3 amps pulses, no thanks :sick2:

I am well aware of the USC project. I am wondering if their 'The Best NiMh Battery Charger' model is ready for immediate shipping, it looks very :naughty:


----------



## B-2Admirer

When I only started my research into NiZn I asked PowerGenix (http://powergenix.com/contact/) the following


> Are the PowerGenix-branded 1150 mWh AAA cells and chargers for them currently sold by Chinese sellers really genuine PowerGenix ones? If not, where are the genuine ones available from?


And they replied


> Presently we’re heavily focused on micro and mild hybrid systems (12V to 48V based) for the automotive markets, and we are not developing any other size batteries or charges at this time. We have fully depleted our original stock of AA's. PowerGenix NEVER made a AAA size cell.
> 
> Please be aware that purchases made from Ebay and other on-line sources most likely were not manufactured by PowerGenix and most likely violate PowerGenix patents. More importantly, the performance, reliability, and safety should be considered suspect.



True constant current is good (I presume). From reading you earlier posts I understand that the minimum charging current is 50 mA and it can be adjusted in 10 mA increments. Can constant voltage supplied to a NiZn cell during the second stage be adjusted, too? I suppose a value slightly lower than 1.9V would be safer (at the expense of undercharge, obviously).


----------



## kreisl

Thanks for the quotes, lemme not comment on their statement. Who is really behind PowerGenix-branded AAA's and BIP/Ultracell NiZn's is probably not of any real concern regarding the mc3k thread.



B-2Admirer said:


> I understand that the minimum charging current is 50 mA and it can be adjusted in 10 mA increments. Can constant voltage supplied to a NiZn cell during the second stage be adjusted, too? I suppose a value slightly lower than 1.9V would be safer


Yesyes, the min _nominal _charging current is 50mA (CC) and in Advanced UI menu mode one can adjust it in 10mA increments. Lower charging (< 50mA) is possible with a dirty trick as suggested in the user manual . The CV of the 2nd stage charging can be adjusted a little bit too, between 1.80~1.95V (in 10mV increments).



B-2Admirer said:


> How is constant voltage for the second stage is generated (and, as with current, is it really constant)?


.. argh good question, now makes me feel technologically challenged thanks! :duh2:
Don't worry, the microcontroller unit in conjunction with the firmware takes care of it. And yes, as wiv current, the constant voltage is really constant. I am saying this without having tested NiZn battery myself in person.



B-2Admirer said:


> for discharge current, is it also constant (and if yes, how is it supplied)?
> 
> Also, will you consider ordering a few NiZn cells for testing?


Yes discharge current is truconstant and very exact. This allows for more precise mAh capacity measurements since a sampling rate can never be infinitely high. Same as the charge current control, the discharge current is controlled by actual current measurement through the same fast current sense shunt and microcontroller unit and firmware. Basically the same technology as in USC. I might consider ordering a few NiZn cells for testing but i know that the maker already tested real NiZn batteries in the charger.



B-2Admirer said:


> so if MC3000 uses constant current it cannot be the same technology.
> 
> Another question about NiZn charging, can charge termination current for the second stage be adjusted and if yes, by what increments?


In chargers i usually do not use the term PWM because it is easily misunderstood for various technical reasons. The discharge (or charge) current thru the battery in MC3000 is truconstant, it is not a pulsed current, not a pulsating current. I am pretty sure that the current thru the battery in USC is truconstant too, not a pulsating current, not a pulsed current. Dismiss the term "PWM" and ask about the actual current thru the battery.
Yes NiZn charge termination current can be adjusted, down to 0.01A, in 10mA increments. If one wants even lower termination currents omg, then this would be possible too as the user manual suggests. 

Hope that sounds good to you, appetizing :thumbsup:


----------



## B-2Admirer

I have ordered three different brands of NiZn AAAs and I have to say all of them look suspiciously similar. Each and every one has *-​*ZR*-​* (whatever that means, superscript hyphens included) stamped on its bottom (or, if it sounds better, negative terminal).

How is constant voltage for the second stage is generated (and, as with current, is it really constant)?


----------



## B-2Admirer

Yes, it certainly sounds good, thanks for the information. Now for discharge current, is it also constant (and if yes, how is it supplied)?

Also, will you consider ordering a few NiZn cells for testing?


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> Yes discharge current is truconstant and very exact. This allows for more precise mAh capacity measurements since a sampling rate can never be infinitely high. Same as the charge current control, the discharge current is controlled by actual current measurement through the same fast current sense shunt and microcontroller unit and firmware. Basically the same technology as in USC.


FYI, "All UltraSmartChargers use PWM (pulse width modulation) for both charging and discharging" (quote from what a developer said), so if MC3000 uses constant current it cannot be the same technology.

Another question about NiZn charging, can charge termination current for the second stage be adjusted and if yes, by what increments?

Thanks.


----------



## light-wolff

B-2Admirer said:


> FYI, "All UltraSmartChargers use PWM (pulse width modulation) for both charging and discharging" (quote from what a developer said), so if MC3000 uses constant current it cannot be the same technology.


It is possible to generate constant current by PWM technology if only the frequency is high enough (some 10 to 100kHz) and an inductor is used (e.g. buck converter, very widespread). There may be some residual ripple, but this is negligible.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

light-wolff said:


> It is possible to generate constant current by PWM technology if only the frequency is high enough (some 10 to 100kHz) and an inductor is used (e.g. buck converter, very widespread). There may be some residual ripple, but this is negligible.


PWM is fine for most needs once it reaches a high enough pulse rate to accommodate the circuitry powered by it. I think for the most part what people don't like about PWM is radio interference (due to frequency of pulsing) and flickering of lights powered by it which can be dealt with by increasing the frequency high enough to make it undiscernible. From what I've gathered most PWM circuits base their 100% on (no pulsing) on 100% output and then start to pulse essentially "off" to reduce that number downward. Capacitors can be used to smooth out ripples without the need for a DC/DC converter. Typically DC converters are used to exchange voltage for current while trying to conserve power available. Most chargers like these have a heavy duty DC/DC converter that converts 12-20vdc down to 1.5-5v dvc at high amperage to charge the batteries. The voltage is I believe typically calculated to deliver the maximum charging rate needed and them pulse modulated downwards reducing power for lower output levels. It is possible that the maximum output is designed for essentially constant current charging of lithium ion and lower levels of charging lithium ion AND nimh are them pulsed.
In other words the charger can have two modes, PWM and constant current with the constant current the maximum (non pulsed).


----------



## light-wolff

Lynx_Arc said:


> Most chargers like these have a heavy duty DC/DC converter that converts 12-20vdc down to 1.5-5v dvc at high amperage to charge the batteries. The voltage is I believe typically calculated to deliver the maximum charging rate needed and them pulse modulated downwards reducing power for lower output levels.


Do you have an example for such a "hybrid mode" charger? It doesn't sound like a clever scheme because once you have such a DC/DC converter aboard you can just as well directly control charging current with it. All 12V powered XTAR and LiitoKala chargers do it this way - and also the MC3000.

Anyway, what you call "DC/DC converter" is actually the buck converter I was referring to. A buck converter in a charger is usually PWM-controlled: fixed frequency, variable duty cycle.


----------



## kreisl

light-wolff said:


> All 12V powered XTAR and LiitoKala chargers do it this way - and also the MC3000.


yikes. 

i'll try to avoid naming these two brands in this thread because their (charge and discharge) current thru the battery is either off or not truconstant, i.e. with much noise, fluctuations, oscillations, or pulsating, quite poor _compared _to the flatline MC3000 performance: what i saw and measured so far with XTAR and Liitokala didn't make me happy. we'll be glad to look deeper into this topic, the performance comparison of non-inexpensive charger-dischargers, in near future when others have a pile of samples too


----------



## Julian Holtz

Hello Kreisl,

the MC3000 is likely the next charger I'm going to get. Do you have any leverage to relay improvement suggestions to the manufacturer? I was heavily involved in helping the Junsi iCharger line become what it is today, and I certainly would like to help, if I can, with the MC3000 as well.


----------



## kreisl

hi i remember you're the one who loves the craut me too!

yes the project is open to improvement suggestions we can gather and discuss them here and i'd know whom to relay them to np thanks for your willingness to help. btw they looked at iCharger line (and other 50US$+ CN/US dischargers and analyzers) and were not impressed by its resolution nor accuracy for the MC3000 operating range, nor am i who owns the 106B+ as reference. MC3000 has higher resolution and accuracy than any Junsi iCharger, we'll see that the product left us practically with hardly noteworthy room for _notable _improvement.


----------



## Julian Holtz

Hi Kreisl,

nice to hear you remember me, the world is small after all. 
For RC purposes, I consider Junsi's accuracy to be just about right for the market. Charging single cells is of course another business than charging packs, and when a circuit is laid out for 10 or 20 Amps, it will not be as accurate as a 3 Amp circuit. But anyhow, I'm not deeply enough in electronics to be able to offer hardware improvement suggestions. I prefer spotting software bugs and generally like to improve options and the UI in general.
So if suggestions are collected here, all the better.
Would you suggest letting the first run blow over and waiting until the first kinks are ironed out, or jumping right in and getting one of the first ones available?


----------



## kreisl

Re hardware there are no kinks to be ironed out, everything underwent many iterations, revisions and testings, the first prototype dates back from exactly 2.0 yrs ago and the 2015 redesigned electronics is robust, simpler, and final RTM. Credit where credit due :huh:
Re firmware it is their original UI design which i liked right out of the box and i passed on suggestions to streamline some aspects of it. Now the UI has been fixed and tied to the printed manual and vice versa; everyone proud and happy! Imho the UI is as good and likable as it can get in a 'hobby charger based 4-bay consumer charger', personally i don't see any *realistic *potential to make major changes, major improvements to the present UI design within the limitations of the given environment (price, LCD, man-hour, time) unless you want to write your own complete code from scratch. But suggestions for minor changes, further fine-tuning, will be welcome and considered, firmware bugs smashed with gusto within the week thanks.
Re the PC Link software (Windows), it is useful but basic. Even though it leaves much room for suggestions for code expansion, realistically let's not _expect _further and further development of it. Imo whoever is unhappy with the simpleness of the PC Link software could dump the logged data to file and process it with Microsoft Excel. In fact, i wouldn't even recommend Logview Studio for logging and processing because Microsoft Excel is so much more professional.
Re the Bluetooth software (Android/iPhone), these days afaik only the iPhone app is readily available, see iTunes Store. I bent the iPhone such that i cannot test the Bluetooth since the Android app for my Samsung has not appeared on Google Playstore yet. Do you have iPhone or Android?

Julian. Jump right in. Get one of the first ones available. Become part of the story from the very beginning. This product is about fun, not only about dead dry serious professional-like accurate mAh measurements :nana:


----------



## chuckhov

Banggood and Gearbest are both dealers for SkyRC.

I'm just waiting to see who will get my money...

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## Julian Holtz

Hi Kreisl,

nice to read this all. It seems you are as pedantic as me when it comes to chargers, so when you are satisfied, I will most likely be too! 

One thing I'd like to know though: Does the charger have an automatic mode one can program in the setup, so that, once this is done, it will begin to charge automatically with the programmed parameters when a cell is inserted?
Sometimes I like to play with chargers, but sometimes I like them just to charge with no programming neccessary.

Thanks,

Julian


----------



## kreisl

Julian Holtz said:


> Does the charger have an automatic mode one can program in the setup, so that, once this is done, it will begin to charge automatically with the programmed parameters when a cell is inserted?


hallihallo 

yes i am definitely *very *satisfied with everything (_kreislapproved_), especially with 2015 hardware, firmware, and manual. and true, i _am _as pedantic when it concerns the 'DC2' (2nd gen dreamcharger after DC1, the BT-C3100 ©2013 OPUS). now they've let me peek at the production pdf user manual, it has about 35 numbered lil pages omg. funny enough, chinese eneloop testing, cpf, batteryuniversity, imax charger, get some mention in it too *gg*

To answer your question: Kinda. Due to safety reasons, for the time being there is no fully automatic smart mode. 

— The following scenario would be as 'automatic' as it gets, you'd need at least *1 click* of a button: 
Once you've setup a program for a battery, a unique program identifier (= a number between 1…30) must be assigned to it; pre-assignment or post-assignment is possible :naughty:. Then just remember the number, e.g. [02]. When the device is powered off, the last used program in each slot is memorized. Next time you power on the (empty) charger, your program is still there under the back then saved identifier [02]; the LCD shows which programs are preset in the slots. If one of the empty slots, e.g. slot#3, already shows [02] thanks to that 'last program memory', then throw in your battery in #3 and hit the *START*-button and done; or else you need 2 additional clicks to change the number to [02] before hitting the START-button.


----------



## PandaLight

Sooo, when is this charger available? Searching on google tells me it should have been released in Spring, then Summer, and now August but August is almost over. I can't find it being sold anywhere =[


----------



## chuckhov

If I can't order one by the end of this month, then, then,... I'm gonna have to wait until next month:-(

"Darn" it!
-Chuck


----------



## Dubois

chuckhov said:


> If I can't order one by the end of this month, then, then,... I'm gonna have to wait until next month:-(
> 
> "Darn" it!
> -Chuck



+1. 

I notice that this thread will be one year old in a couple of days time. Impressive. I've kept my resolve not to buy an analysing charger while this one has been in development. Unfortunately a combination of good prices on Xtar's VC2 & VP2 has meant that I'm a little over-endowed in the charger front at the moment. Oh well, the VC2 will make a nice safe gift to someone not that au fait with Li-ions.


----------



## Julian Holtz

Hallöle Kreisl,

thanks for your detailled response. I can understand that there is no fully automatic mode for safety reasons.
However, as I see it now, one has to memorize and select the correct memory slot to start a charge now. This might not be the most user-friendly for less sophisticated people (rest of family, who just want to charge).

I would envision a system like this: For every chemistry, "default parameters" can be programmed.
For example:
-NiMh: 400mA current, 3mV delta peak, 10mA trickle current, etc
-LiIon: 500mA current, 4.15V CV, etc

Now, when a cell is inserted, the charger checks the voltage, and concludes the cell chemistry from that. <1.6V would be NiMH, >2V would be LiIon.

So, when a NiMh cell is inserted, after a short test, the charger would ask "charge NiMh?", and after pressing a button to confirm, it would start charging with the default parameters. Same for LiIon cells respecticely.

This procedure would be practically self-explanatory and would meke the charger also usable for others who don't need all the bells and whistles at the moment.

What do you think about this?

Cheers,

Julian


----------



## chuckhov

Dubois said:


> +1.
> 
> I notice that this thread will be one year old in a couple of days time. Impressive. I've kept my resolve not to buy an analysing charger while this one has been in development. Unfortunately a combination of good prices on Xtar's VC2 & VP2 has meant that I'm a little over-endowed in the charger front at the moment. Oh well, the VC2 will make a nice safe gift to someone not that au fait with Li-ions.




Though I have a Nitecore D4 to charge things up with, I saw that Gearbest is now handling the Liitokala Lii - 500 Charger/Analyser (and on Sale to boot), so I bought one this morning

I figure that I can play with it while waiting for the MC3000 to become available, and what the heck - It's always good to have a spare anyway - Right?

Who knows... I may even wait around and grab one of the Version 2 models. - Nothing is perfect and can't be improved.

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## kreisl

Julian Holtz said:


> when a NiMh cell is inserted, after a short test, the charger would ask "charge NiMh?", and after pressing a button to confirm, it would start charging with the default parameters. Same for LiIon cells respecticely.


Hallöle Julian!

I had the same idea :thumbsup:, automatic BATT TYPE detection based on offline voltage, and they had thought about it too. It was put on the to-do list for _possible _future implementation as _additional _UI Mode called "Smart" or "Automatic". From what i gathered, the technical problem is how to distinguish between the other supported battery types, e.g. NiZn, LiFePO4, RAM? The Nietcore D4 and Xstar VP2 have external switches for LiFePO4 selection, for example.

As a practical workaround one could stick or glue a Post-it on the side of the charger with a personal note for the known literate user (or yourself) such that nobody needs to remember by heart under which number your programs were saved:

" _[02] = Eneloop AA charging
[03] = Tenergy AAA charging
[18] = LiIon 18650 charging
!!User Manual is in left drawer!!
Have some fun, best, kay_ "​ 
Btw when my family, friends, neighbors, dogs, cats come over and see the device, they don't dare to operate it. And if they tried, i would tell them off . Hazard averted the easy way!

@Chuck, i have the *Lii-500* too. Very poor analyzer, i've tested and measured it extensively; i agree, hopefully the Version 2 of Lii-500 will be released soon!!

@PandaLight, lemme try to find out what's going on these days at the production site…


----------



## chuckhov

"i agree, hopefully the Version 2 of Lii-500 will be released soon!!"

Er... I was referring to the V2 MC3000

Thanks,
-Chuck


----------



## kreisl

chuckhov said:


> Er... I was referring to the V2 MC3000


you wanna wait until 2018? :nana:


----------



## chuckhov

2018? - Are you talking about the release of Version 1 or 2 now

Take care my friend,
-Chuck


----------



## kreisl

_If_ there will be a "V2" of MC3000 in distant future, it will be a totally different, not an improved, product. And that could happen in 2018+.
In the meantime all improvements will be done thru firmware updates, FREE for you.


----------



## dekelsey61

Hi Kreisl
I have been following this thread for 1 year now! Longest anticipated product ever seen! Any idea when this charger will be available to the public? Thank you.
dan


----------



## kreisl

hello dan, thanks for your interest and patience, appreciated! i've been waiting even longer and i am so relieved that everything _is_ real and happening. after the loong wait i just hope that people don't turn their backs as soon as they learn about the price *ggg*. roll-out to sellers will take place in *September *(EDIT: reconfirmed, still on schedule! and no i don't know anything about price sorry), so please hold on to your money until about then :sweat:

these days they're finishing the tests of the trial production samples and the production testers need to learn firsthow to operate the darn thing, which delays the process. i am imagining the testers connecting the samples to power, looking at the little LCD screens, scratching:thinking:their heads and thinking wtf 

lol .. kreisl amused


----------



## Julian Holtz

kreisl said:


> Hallöle Julian!
> 
> I had the same idea :thumbsup:, automatic BATT TYPE detection based on offline voltage, and they had thought about it too. It was put on the to-do list for _possible _future implementation as _additional _UI Mode called "Smart" or "Automatic". From what i gathered, the technical problem is how to distinguish between the other supported battery types, e.g. NiZn, LiFePO4, RAM? The Nietcore D4 and Xstar VP2 have external switches for LiFePO4 selection, for example.
> 
> []



Servus Kreisl,

great minds think alike! A solution for the problem of different chemistries at the same voltage could be to be able to program in a sequence of which chemistries one can choose in a specific situation. I, for example, charge neither NiZn nor LiFePo, so I would eliminate these from the list of what's available.
Another person might charge NiMh mostly, and NiZn once in a while. So the first thing the charger would ask is "charge NiMh?", the second "charge NiZn?". So one can toggle through a list of chemistries before confirming, which is set up by the user.
This way, most times one will just have to confirm with one press of a button, and at worst have to toggle with some button presses until the correct chemistry is displayed, and then confirm. Still pretty intuitive. 

Cheers,

Julian


----------



## kreisl

hehe  … what you are suggesting as workaround for the challenging voltage problematique is, in enhanced form, what i had immediately thought of 2.0 yrs ago, namely some UI user interface similar to a Windows wizard where the user is forced to take decisions via radio buttons and click 'Next' to proceed in the series of program setup dialogs. For a primitive Charge program in a 'round battery'-charger, what should be the compromise re the hidden default charge rate, 0.375A as in Nitcore i4? That would be imo too low for nimh cells >2000mAh and too high for liion cells <500mAh. Recall that the default charge rate on the MH-C9000 is 1000mA woot! So a mini wizard should consist of 2 dialogs, or 1 dialog with 2 settings: BATT TYPE selection, and a convenient range of Charge rates e.g. {100|300|500|700|1000|1500|2000|3000}mA. In fact, some of the touchpad chargers on the market (SkyRC, ..) have this kind of interface, and tbh it has advantages and disadvantages.

"eliminate these from the list of what's available" - This is already implemented in the firmware. Users can hide unneeded battery types in GSV Global Setup View.

I love wizards, they _are _intuitive and self-explanatory, and the coding of a minimalist wizard (with automatic BATT TYPE presets based on battery voltage to reduce the number of button clicks) should be possible. I can't tell _when _they will add this UI alternative though. When they had shown me their original simple and straight-forward idea of UI design, i liked it right away and better than our idea here. I fear that if and only if so many users are really unhappy about a missing wizard, the developers will re-consider our idea.

In the meantime, the Post-it solution. :huh:


----------



## KenSrf

kreisl said:


> Thanks for sharing the details of your concerns. MH-C9000 comes with a limited 3-years warranty, i would test that out.
> Yes both charger models have pitfalls and tbh i am not stoked with either one either (  ).
> Erhm .. the mc3k iOS app hasn't been updated in a long time while there were many updates of the device firmware since. Clearly, the old iOS app still works (as i heard) but it will not 100.0% match the present firmware version ( that's my educated guess ). If you have specific questions re MC3000 (user manual, cycle history, eneloop, better than NC2500/C9000/etc?), i'll be glad to answer them in that thread, thx!


I hope they don't change iOS version requirements with the updated app. I was happy that it still worked on my old device.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

I don't see how a default charge rate could work well for everyone it works well in for single chemistry chargers that have separate slots for separate sizes of batteries such as AAA/AA etc but having the sliders would have the AAAs and AAs set at the same rate and even the lithium ions set at the same rate for smaller RCR123 cells vs 26650s you would either be charging the larger too slow to accommodate the smaller batteries or charge the smaller batteries too fast to work well with the larger ones. Now if you had a prompt after chemistry detection of several choices perhaps even just 2 and an option to go to a second menu for more choices that would probably suffice.


----------



## Julian Holtz

Hi Kreisl.



> For a primitive Charge program in a 'round battery'-charger, what should be the compromise re the hidden default charge rate, 0.375A as in Nitcore i4? That would be imo too low for nimh cells >2000mAh and too high for liion cells <500mAh. Recall that the default charge rate on the MH-C9000 is 1000mA woot! So a mini wizard should consist of 2 dialogs, or 1 dialog with 2 settings: BATT TYPE selection, and a convenient range of Charge rates e.g. {100|300|500|700|1000|1500|2000|3000}mA. In fact, some of the touchpad chargers on the market (SkyRC, ..) have this kind of interface, and tbh it has advantages and disadvantages.



In my initial post regarding the "wizard" or "default program", I mentioned the idea of allowing the user to program the defaults. So, one can either program in a default charge rate (individually for each chemistry) or make the wizard ask for a specific charge rate.

Lynx, what you wrote is exactly what I mean. The user should be able to program default charge rates for individual chemistries, but also be able to change them easily if the need arrives.

I own this very nice charger:
http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/...n-Charge-Manager-420-Charge-Manager-420-CM420

When I insert a battery, a wizard starts leads through the various settings, but if I do not touch any buttons, it automatically chooses default and goes to the next setting. After a short while without me interfering, it has walked through all settings on it's own, chosen the default values every time, and starts charging.
One can basically choose a mode (charge, discharge, etc) and a current (500mA, 1000mA, etc).
If I insert a battery, it displays "charge" (the default). By pressing buttons I can now toggle between the various charge modes. When I do not touch anything, it will take "charge" after several seconds, and then display "500mA". Here I can toggle the different currents as well, and if I don't touch it, it will take "500mA" (the default) and start charging after several seconds. If I insert an additional cell in slot two, it will ask "same as slot 1", which I can simply confirm to speed things up, and if I don't it will walk through the wizard again.

So I guess that the best UI for automatic charging would be like this:

1) insert battery
2) charger only continues if chemistry choice is confirmed (NiMh, LiIon, etc)
2a) (optional) charger will ask "same as slot x" if another cell in slot x is already charging
3) charger displays relevant settings and chooses defaults after several seconds if no changes are made by the user
4) charger starts charging

The user should be able to program in the setup menu the available choices and defaults for points 2) and 3).

This way the charge is as automatic as possible, but still the user can make changes as he pleases, without having to dig up or remember any memory slots.

Cheers,

Julian


----------



## kreisl

hellö

I was aware of Conrad's Voltcraft branded CM series, really nice geman designed/engineered chargers with a track record. As mentioned, i had discarded the idea of wizard UI quickly as soon as i saw Sky's agreeable and likable UI design. Thanks Julian for the pointer, i am going to study the CM user manual and try hard to imagine how realistic and feasible it would be to implement the integration of this alternative UI in the present MC firmware-UI structure. Strong ideas never fall on deaf ears.

:grouphug:


----------



## Julian Holtz

Nice to hear.  This charger is going to be a lot of fun.


----------



## light-wolff

kreisl said:


> As a practical workaround one could stick or glue a Post-it on the side of the charger with a personal note for the known literate user (or yourself) such that nobody needs to remember by heart under which number your programs were saved:
> 
> " _[02] = Eneloop AA charging
> [03] = Tenergy AAA charging
> [18] = LiIon 18650 charging
> !!User Manual is in left drawer!!
> Have some fun, best, kay_ "​


Isn't it possible to assign names to the programs? So you don't chose "[02]" but "[02] Eneloop AA charging". Eliminates the need for Post-its.


----------



## kreisl

helo :wave:

imo one does _not really_ need to remember numbers because the first 4 settings (they are the essential ones!) of a program are displayed in situ as soon as the user clicks on the UP (or DOWN) button to browse thru the 30 programs. It's comparable to flipping the pages of a cookery booklet, page by page, and seeing the ingredients list at the top of each page right away (e.g. NiMH, 2000mAh, Charge, 2.85A) while ignoring the rest of the page (timer cut-off, temperature cut-off, etc) in the moment.

"[02] Eneloop AA charging" consists of 24chars.







_(original LCD hardware; demo pic to illustrate char width and char resolution)_​ 
the standard char resolution on MC3000 is 7x12 pixels (big font), so we get 18chars per row and 5rows of text. 
the next lower char resolution would be 6x8 pixels (medium font), for 21chars/row and 8rows: that's what you see in the above demo pic. For most purposes the medium font looks too small, so it gets employed in DDV (Diagram Drawing View) only, nowhere else.

But i know what you mean. Some books have chapter title plus page number written all in the header line, 1 single line. So instead of calling a program "PROGRAM[02]" one could possibly write "[02]NmCh285"? — Personally i wouldn't like it for aesthetic and or intelligible reasons but it's an idea:tinfoil: worth exploring, thanks!


----------



## light-wolff

kreisl said:


> "[02] Eneloop AA charging" consists of 24chars.


"02 Eneloop AA chrg" instead is 18 chars and would fit in a line.
As you wrote: because the main settings are displayed, it's easier for the informed user to select the correct program.
But still I'd prefer even short program names to post-its . Users will find naming styles that fit their individiual needs. Only entering the names will be a rather tedious task without proper keyboard.


----------



## kreisl

little update, see photo above:
production pilot run and testing was completed successfully last week.
@B-2Admirer, see they have NiZn-batteries for testing 
@Julian, see how LiFe/LiIon4.35/a.o. can be hidden thru SETUP

There are 2 visible differences between the left unit (old prototype) and the right one (production), who can tell?


----------



## Ferdinando

power-bank feature keys missing
right ?


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> @B-2Admirer, see they have NiZn-batteries for testing


Good. I hope their BPI cells are better than mine, to me (judging by their capacity) it appeared to be the worst brand of NiZn cells.


----------



## kreisl

Ferdinando said:


> power-bank feature keys missing



right.

and what's the other difference? one needs good eyes :naughty:


----------



## Ferdinando

I am not sure... but thermal-sensor seems a little more
raised


----------



## kreisl

not that 

BTW the programmer of the PC Link software has implemented *.CSV-file export. This is "nothing special" since logging software by other manufacturers have CSV-Export too —it's a common scientific standard—, but it is afaik a novelty in Sky house. So for real-time logging (1 Hertz, 1Hz) one can just be happy with the simplistic proprietary PC Link software, or, after the programs have finished operation, ambitious users could export the session and open the *.CSV-file with M$ Excel for post-processing.


----------



## Gauss163

If their is PC-Link capability, then why not provide a LogView interface for graphing and analysis? _Then _it would be closer to a dream charger.


----------



## kreisl

The LogView software does not support multi-channels. The newer version, LogView Studio, does not really support multi-channels either. For real-time logging a multi-channel enabled LVS would be superior to the Sky software but for post-processing, for example comparing graphs of different batteries, Excel is far superior and can be published. 

But i get your point. The more options the user has, the better.
Let's cross fingers that LVS can _fully _support multi-channels in future!


----------



## Gauss163

Ideally there should be an open source platform for doing all of that. It probably wouldn't be hard to mashup since all the required component software mostly already exists. But till then, we'll need to keep dreaming...


----------



## HKJ

Gauss163 said:


> Ideally there should be an open source platform for doing all of that. It probably wouldn't be hard to mashup since all the required component software mostly already exists. But till then, we'll need to keep dreaming...



Just a documented virtual serial port connection would be enough, then the software is easy to make.


----------



## psychbeat

There's gonna be an iOS app too yeah?


----------



## kreisl

The *iOS *app _is_ working, even though the version is dated and does not reflect the very latest refinements in the device firmware. Maybe it will get updated for the sake of it, i dunno:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mc3000/id949072025

I don't know how soon the *Android *version will be posted on Play Store, these days the programmers are busy with making the PC Link software (*Windows*) suitable for publication 

I should have more concrete updates in the course of this week. Exciting days!


----------



## light-wolff

HKJ said:


> Just a documented virtual serial port connection would be enough, then the software is easy to make.


I second that!

BTW: a question that arose on another forum:
Can the MC3k reset the undervoltage protection of cells with PCB?
Some chagers can't.


----------



## tatasal

Can this thing charge batteries too?


----------



## Gauss163

@kreisl If I designed a Dream Charger it would have many more features. For example, it would barcode scan cells as you insert then. With such identification capability, then the charger can automatically choose user-programmed (dis)charge settings. Further, it could automatically upload results to a database in order to allow _completely automatic _health tracking and statistical analyses. The database could be local or global, where the latter allows the community to share statistics to better understand general performance. 

That's not a pipe dream. Rather, it is well within reach with today's tech. In fact a competent developer could implement it quite easily. With crowdsourced development it could be implemented quite quickly.


----------



## Dubois

Gauss163 said:


> @kreisl If I designed a Dream Charger it would have many more features. For example, it would barcode scan cells as you insert then. With such identification capability, then the charger can automatically choose user-programmed (dis)charge settings. Further, it could automatically upload results to a database in order to allow _completely automatic _health tracking and statistical analyses. The database could be local or global, where the latter allows the community to share statistics to better understand general performance.
> 
> That's not a pipe dream. Rather, it is well within reach with today's tech. In fact a competent developer could implement it quite easily. With crowdsourced development it could be implemented quite quickly.



Lol. How many cells have you seen with a barcode printed on it?


----------



## Gauss163

Please _think _before your post. You print and attach your own barcodes, of course. In fact you don't even need a barcode reader in the charger since you could use one of the common cellphone barcode scanning apps (presuming that the charger has the capability to communicate with a phone or computer).

This provides a slick solution to the default charging initiation discussed above. We get "one-click" charging simply by clicking a button on your cell phone, which takes a photo of the cells in the charger, scans their barcodes, then looks up the user-programmed settings for the cells, then uploads the program to the charger. What could be simpler?

Patent pending...


----------



## MRsDNF

The second difference is the brand name is not covered by tape. 
Are the slides shallower on the newer version or is it just the angle the pictures taken giving that impression?


----------



## kreisl

MRsDNF said:


> The second difference is the brand name is not covered by tape.


Hi, the 2nd difference i was referring to is the quality of the metal contacts/sliders. The production parts are "silver-plated" for better electrical contact or conductivity, an improvement. Can anyone see on the pic that the color of the metal parts differs between the two charger units? It's just an impression that the dimensions of the sliders differ.

Gauss163, for faster direct deployment the scanner should imo be on the machine. Printing bar codes (or QR codes) and sticking them on batteries would make sense if the consumer had lots of different rechargeable battery makes in regular use; my Post-it suggestion works best for a handful of programs. Alternatively, one could print and stick the program number (or any further info of interest) on the battery itself, instead of a separate paper sheet or Post-it note.

( erh let's not attackeach other over dreams )


----------



## Gauss163

@kreisl A "Dream Charger" should not require kludges such as Post-it notes. Rather, it should exploit existing technology to the hilt, e.g. automating what can easily be automated, so to better make the machine as foolproof as possible. This charger has some minor, incremental improvements over others. But it is very far from making the big design leaps needed to earn the name "Dream Charger".


----------



## Curetia

kreisl said:


> Hi, the 2nd difference i was referring to is the quality of the metal contacts/sliders. The production parts are "silver-plated" for better electrical contact or conductivity, an improvement. Can anyone see on the pic that the color of the metal parts differs between the two charger units?


I can see it, but i didnt think, that this was the difference. I thought it is difference because of the light.
I hope I can buy this charger soon


----------



## Ferdinando

Kreisl, so the idea to have the charger with two operational modes:

'automatic'
it starts charge upon cell insertion with no manual key press
it starts charge automatically only Ni-Mh and Li-Ion
(or what you want, it just an example)
choosing the type by reading the voltage of inserted cell

for other chemistries, the user must choose the right program from library, using keys

'manual'
it can charge all supported cells with usual key-press

is not applicable ?
it does not solve the security problems ?


----------



## dts71

I just found this thread - it seems there will be a new charger for Christmas.
I'm super excited


----------



## kreisl

Ferdinando said:


> it starts charge automatically only Ni-Mh and Li-Ion
> (or what you want, it just an example)
> choosing the type by reading the voltage of inserted cell


Hello Ferdinando, so far the charger has UI Mode: Advanced and UI Mode: Simple, both are 'manual' UI modes. I dig your idea. I mean.. limiting the number of automatic rechargeable battery chemistries to *2 only at a time*. The user would have to make the selection beforehand in SETUP; once set, the user could charge his/her preferred 2 chemistries without pressing any key.

Following KISS and editor's choice, less popular or dangerous chemistries would be unavailable in the selections: NiZn, RAM, LiIo435. Also NiCd and Eneloop because their charging algorithm could be covered by NiMH. In other words, people who really need to charge these 5 chemistries explicitly would be forced to work with either of the two 'manual' UI modes.

What's left would be: NiMH, LiIon, and LiFe. Since the voltage ranges of Li-Ion and LiFePO4 overlap, there is imo no acceptable way that a smart charger could safely distinguish between these two Lithium-based rechargeable chemistries. That's why Xstar VP2, Nietcore D4, Opus BT-C3100, a.o. have a Li-chemistry selector switch — with such a 'smart' charger the user must still be aware of the switch setting!

So the selections in SETUP would be:
123456789012345678
UI Mode: Simple
UI Mode: Advanced
UI Mode: NiMH/LiIo
UI Mode: NiMH/LiFe

Apparently, NiMH/LiIo and NiMH/LiFe would be our 'smart' (or 'automatic') modes, and the user would still be prompted to enter the charge rate or else the charger would proceed with the displayed default rate. KISS again, the default rates would be fixed in the firmware and could not be changed by the user.

What do you guys think, do you like it:kiss:?


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> there is imo no acceptable way that a smart charger could safely distinguish between these two Lithium-based rechargeable chemistries.


 
But there is. As I described above, there are intelligent ways to recognize individual cells, e.g. by using a bar code reader either on the charger or on some device (e.g. cellphone) that the charger can communicate with.


----------



## Gauss163

@kreisl Since you are in contact with the developers, perhaps you can answer this question. Has there been any safety analysis done on the charger? If components fail can it possibly lead to dangerous situations?


----------



## kreisl

if critical states are reached as a result of some unknown cause (like component failure), the system will issue a warning song and usually shut down soon after, depending on the situation. there are hardware components and firmware components which take care of abnormal situations. and if certain components malfunction, an error code would be issued on the LCD. those codes are not documented in the user manual, they're reserved for internal use only, sorry. safety has been tested on their own terms ('analysis'). 

all good! :thumbsup:


----------



## psychbeat

It's a novel idea but personally I don't want to print barcodes & stick them on all of my cells. 
I'm also fine with pushing a couple of buttons but it would be nice if I could keep a slot in the last setting I had it in or have a preset for it that I could easily get to.
I'd mostly be doing 2 amps Li-Ion but have a few smaller cells and some eneloops. 
Might get some 4.35s eventually after I get this charger 

Anyways, I'm not hung up on just sticking any cell in there & letting it figure out what it is for me since that seems impractical + this is an "advanced user" piece of equipment.


----------



## Gauss163

@psychbeat Sure, for some users (e.g. those with few cells), the extra work involved in labelling them may be more trouble than it is worth. But for those with many cells, and for those who are interested in tracking their health, it could prove quite convenient. The more you can automate these processes the easier it is to coax users into contributing stats to community databases. The knowledge gleaned from such field-testing could prove immensely useful. In fact it could prove more useful than the limited tests done by manufacturers.

To me, a Dream Charger should have enough configurability that it can be optimized for most every class of user. But that may be asking too much at certain price points. Whether or not that is true here we cannot say, since we have no idea yet what the price will be.


----------



## Gauss163

@Kreisl I cannot determine much about safety from those vague words. Do you actually have specific knowledge of what (if any) safety testing was performed? It would be very interesting to learn how Chinese charger designers typically address safety (if at all). For example, do you know if they employ industry standard methods, e.g. failure tree analysis or FMEA (failure mode and effects analysis)?

I suspect that for consumer-grade chargers they do not perform proper safety testing. But I would loved to be proved wrong in some specific case. 

Some further discussion on safety matters can be found in prior threads, see esp. here and here.


----------



## kreisl

psychbeat said:


> it would be nice if I could keep a slot in the last setting I had it in or have a preset for it that I could easily get to.


_last program/slot memory._ The charger memorizes the last used program number (per slot) between power off/on's. And if you want to copy this program over to all other slots with a single click, no problem. The "a preset for it" is exactly this: a specific program number, say [13]. You can keep [13] assigned to #4 (=slot4), also no problem. The glossary in the user manual clarifies on the concept or difference(?) of 'what is a program number?':


> Program number = a program number is the program with this number, and not only the number itself


Maybe the above definition sounds trivial, banal, silly logical but give it a moment to sink in. In other words, in the context of this charger, _program number_ is synonymous with _program_, and vice versa, because in practice they mean the same, there is no practical difference between the two, either cannot exist on its own independently without the other, they are inherently tied to each other.

Gauss163, sorry no further details provided, i am satisfied with my given answer, moving on


----------



## Gauss163

@kreisl Sorry to hear that you do not have any solid details about any safety analysis. It would have been interesting to find out what methodology is (typically) employed by Chinese firms. Given the prior track record, probably the answer is "little if any", which should give one pause.


----------



## alternety

Just a small note to get my wack at the horse. Given how picky some devices are about cell diameter, I am not sure the idea of sticking on a bar cod label on a cell is a generally good idea. Now, printed on the wrap by manufacturer would be neat. Manufacturer ID, Cell size, type/chemistry, capacity, serial number, etc. The bar code could get a bit long. 

Someone could start a project to build a printer capable of doing indelible printing on the cylindrical sides of multiple diameter cells. Or strip off the sleeve, print your own sleeve, shrink it on.

Then the scanning. A moving scanner bar under each cell position would be pretty expensive and take up some space needed for other things. Build the charger like an artillery piece. One tube to each charging station, a ram rod to push the properly rotated cell in past a reader, and become the negative contact.

Or allow the charger to accept external data and commands and use a stand alone simple scanner. Push button to specify position it will go in and scan.

It would be useful to people with lots of batteries (or maybe just a few but are more anal retentive). By serializing you could attach a usb port or something and collect data by cell and keep a data base, plot recharge capacity over uses, etc. Certainly easier that using a sharpie to ID each cell and keep manual database updates.

Cell size would make this a bit tricky if you have a wide range of really small ones.

There are some details to work out, but it would be nice.


----------



## Gauss163

@alternety Devising a good way to label cells should not be difficult, e.g. one could print onto a very thin tape such as Kapton. There are myriad possibilities. That's not my area of expertise. The next time I'm at MIT I'll prod some of my former classmates who work in related areas to see what they recommend.


----------



## alternety

OK. You do realize I was mostly being silly?

As I said, a very useful feature if it can be implemented at reasonable cost.


----------



## Dubois

Gauss163 said:


> ..... That's not my area of expertise. ....



Wow, something outside your area of expertise.


----------



## Gauss163

@alternety Of course, I chuckled at the latter half. But the concerns about thickness may well be valid in some contexts, so I thought it worthwhile to address that. @Dubois Alas, too much! If only there were more hours in a day...


----------



## alternety

I wonder if an RFID patch could be used. I don't know how thin they are or how well they work on a metal surface.


----------



## Julian Holtz

> Apparently, NiMH/LiIo and NiMH/LiFe would be our 'smart' (or 'automatic') modes, and the user would still be prompted to enter the charge rate or else the charger would proceed with the displayed default rate.



I think that most users only have NiMh and LiIon cells. So an automatic solution that works for them would already be a good thing. This means, a fully automatic mode is available as soon as all enabled cell chemistries do not overlap voltage-wise.

This means you can choose Nixx or NiZn, and choose either LiIon or LiFe. All available cell chemistry types must be clearly distinguishable by the charger.
If you enable more types, automatic mode is not available for the similar cell types.
You could, of course, enable NiMh, NiZn, and LiIon.
Insertion of LiIon could trigger the automatic mode, but not insertion of NiMh or NiZn.
Whenever the automatic mode is triggered, the charger must not be able to have any doubt about the cell type inserted.

I think this is the best solution within the means of current technology.


----------



## Julian Holtz

Double posting...


----------



## ko4nrbs

I think we need to stay focused on getting the charger on the shelves for now. Improvements and/or modifications could be incorporated into the new model or an entirely new charger. 

The more complicated or sophisticated the charger becomes can invite many difficult to resolve issues. Personally I would prefer a charger that charges my batteries as simply as possible. Bells and whistles can just be a royal pain in the ??&&%%!!

Bill


----------



## Dubois

Has there ever been a thread like this on CPF before? 

One year on, nearly 70,000 reads, and still no product.

@kreisl - you have done a great job.


----------



## Gauss163

Julian Holtz said:


> ... I think this is the best solution within the means of current technology.



It is certainly not the "best solution within the means of current technology", since, using current technology (even old tech), the charger can automatically recognize every cell, e.g. as described above. For chargers that lack this capability ("blind chargers") then one is forced to implement some scheme like you propose in order to disambiguate cell types whose voltage (and dimension) ranges overlap.


----------



## kreisl

Julian Holtz said:


> Whenever the automatic mode is triggered, the charger must not be able to have any doubt about the cell type inserted.
> 
> I think this is the best solution within the means of current technology.


Hi Julian, thanks for your inspirational input!
Well, with the current User Interface structure in mind and with combining Ferdinando's key idea and the feasible out of your input, i'll submit suggestions before Monday which are realistic to be implemented .. fingers crossed that they're convinced to actually do us the favor.


@Dubois -


----------



## LED User

kreisl, since you referred me to this thread, I assumed that I could buy one.

How soon is this charger going to be available?
And at what price point? (your comment about potential buyers maybe being scared off when they see the price has me edgy)


----------



## kreisl

It's weekend, no hard news today. Full scale production may start vely soon, i'll update the thread np. Dealers are likely to get order/shipping info this month; product should sit on their shelves then by Sep/Oct i guess. Sorry I don't have a hearing or saying in pricing. All i know is that it'll cost over 55$ , that's an easy guess.


Q. Hey man could one conclude NiZn popularity from LiFePO4 survey stats? :thinking:
A. Lemme answer with a quiz:
_
If a survey reveals that 
45% of the flashies use NiMH,
55% use LiIo,
40% use LiFe,
30% use NiMH and LiIo,
15% use LiIo and LiFe,
15% use NiMH and LiFe,
10% use NiMH and LiIo and LiFe,
then how many % of the flashies use neither of the 3 battery types?_

Q. Erh. Huh?? :sick2: Your question doesn't make logical sense.
A. It's derived from a CSE sample problem. The solution has to be a number between 5~35%. I don't have the answer.

Q. What if i get it right, anything to win?
A. Lol. Nah, nada. But i'd be glad to compare your number with mine, thanks!


----------



## LED User

Thank-you for updating what info you do know. :thumbsup:


----------



## psychbeat

NiZN is over isn't it?
Mine were TERRIBLE.


----------



## kreisl

light-wolff said:


> a question that arose on another forum:
> Can the MC3k reset the undervoltage protection of cells with PCB?
> Some chagers can't.


Oops, almost missed that one. Hi wolff, Nietcore i4 V2 and Xstar chargers can do it, but Efest LUC V4 and the brand-new Efest Blu6 cannot do it. Like with any hobby charger —the MC3000 has the DNA of a hobby charger— a 0.0V-battery is recognized as "NO BATTERY". The threshold voltage lies around ~0.2V; thereunder the slot does not recognize correctly inserted batteries.:candle:
​Fortunately the makers included a firmware feature for this situation. Very simple: click on the SNB (Slot Number Button) of the slot under consideration and done!

With the (_manual_) button click the slot tries to pump charge with a specific current pulse pattern into the 'no battery' for a few seconds and then rechecks the offline voltage to see if the few seconds were enough to release the protection. If it didn't help, click the button again lol. Nothing spectacular - it's like "manually" pumping charge into the protected battery until the internal cell voltage has recovered beyond the PCB-untripping voltage level. The pulse pattern depends on the firmware and could be altered in future, if needed.

I like this solution and prefer it to a _fully automatic_ PCB-resetting feature because it gives the user full control over the resetting procedure. And it is actually quite fun to press a button on a machine to get something you want.

​


----------



## _UPz

kreisl, do you know if the charger project is already in mass production scale?
Thanks!


----------



## Julian Holtz

kreisl said:


> Hi Julian, thanks for your inspirational input!
> Well, with the current User Interface structure in mind and with combining Ferdinando's key idea and the feasible out of your input, i'll submit suggestions before Monday which are realistic to be implemented .. fingers crossed that they're convinced to actually do us the favor.
> 
> 
> @Dubois -



Hi Kreisl, great to hear that our ideas do not fall on deaf ears!


----------



## kreisl

Julian Holtz said:


> Hi Kreisl, great to hear that our ideas do not fall on deaf ears!


'Automatic' mode has been implemented! It's similar to the operation of Nitcore i4 V2: If you're fine with 700mA/slot charging, then there's no need to wait, just throw your NiMH/NiCd/Eneloop/LiIon batteries at it and press the ENTER-button already. Inserting LiIo4.35 battery would be okay too, to be charged safely to 4.2V.

Of course, the charger needs to be set to operate in this mode:







This user interface mode works 'automatic' in the sense that it automatically recognizes the correct battery type (among the 2 selected as parameter for the UI Mode option in SETUP, in this screenshot: NiMH vs. LiIon) and sets safe hidden program defaults for the fixed Charge operation mode. "What you can't see can't confuse you". The preset charge rate, the default value, is 0.7A. After inserting the battery the user is prompted to change the charge rate within 5sec before the displayed value gets automatically saved to the slot. This UI Mode allows nothing but Charge. After all batteries are inserted this way, one has the chance to overview everything: the offline voltages, the recognized battery types, and the charge rates. Changes would still be possible thru the SNB's (Slot Number Buttons). Finally the user hits the ENTER-button to reconfirm the situation and Start All. Individual Starts are possible too.

The firmware covers NiMH/LiIo, NiMH/LiFe, and possibly more depending on user demands ( NiZn/… ).

I haven't tested this brand new feature yet so let's wait until everyone has a MC3000 retail unit and we can see how the 'automatic mode' was implemented in practice and whether we find that it is acceptable or leaves room for concrete refinement. 

(...) You see the Beep Tone option? Parameter says "1". It can go up to 16. What could that be? Let's guess!


----------



## B-2Admirer

So, will the NiMH/NiZn automatic be implemented? And can the default value be set to something other than 0.7A?


----------



## kreisl

Offline voltages of NiMH/NiZn can overlap as the geman product states:


CM2024 user manual said:


> E.g. at deep discharged NiZn rechargeable batteries, the rechargeable battery chemistry may need to be chosen manually and confirmed with „OK“.


I question how safely commercial chargers can really detect between NiMH and NiZn automatically. These 2 chemistries should be split up imo for ease of mind and ease of use (KISS, see below).

I don't believe that the firmware will offer the user to preset the default; it would complicate things too much. If you want your own defaults, you can save your preferred set of settings ("personal defaults") under PROGRAM[01] —that's what the other UI Modes (Simple, Advanced) are for— and leave [01] in all 4 slots when you power off the device. Device has _last program memory_ in each slot.

The entire charger tries to follow the KISS principle. That's why in this 'ui mode for Dummies', for now, NiZn is *split from* NiMH/NiCd/Eneloop, LiIo4.35 (=High Voltage Lithium-Ion, LiHV) is *lumped with* LiIon (=Standard Lithium-Ion), and the *default *charge rate is a fixed preset. You can change the charge rate but not its default value per se. I hope this makes sense.


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> There is no charger on the market which can detect between NiMH and NiZn automatically. These 2 chemistries must be split up.


Read the manual for Voltcraft Charge Manager 2016 or Voltcraft Charge Manager 2024 and you may be up to a few surprises.


> According to the voltage of the inserted battery, NiMH/Cd or NiZn mode is suggested.


----------



## vex_zg

Hi,

will these two be configurable:



dv/dt for charging NiMH ? (the voltage drop used to detect end of charge, typically configurable in range of 5-10mV)?
Temperature threshold for all chemistries (can be used to detect NiMH end of charge, but useful also as a safety precaution for all chemistries)

Thanks


----------



## kreisl

Hi, your very first post on CPF and then in this thread, my double welcome! 

Yes, dV/dt delta peak sensibility (for NiMH/NiCd) and BattTemp threshold (for all chemistries) are configurable _per user program_, see my older post about options and parameter ranges. The two are program options, not global settings. In contrast, SysTemp threshold is a global quantity to protect the device itself (not the battery) from damage, e.g. on a hot summer afternoon.

From my experience, at typical loads good condition batteries don't get hot in the MC3000 neither during charge nor during discharge. That's because the bay metal contacts don't get hot from the internal system heat and because the batteries have low internal resistance. Heck one could even mimic MH-C9000's charging algorithm, i.e. 1.47V cut-off voltage plus top-off charge, which would never lead to warm batteries.


Q. Yoh man. What exactly do you mean with "typical loads"? 
A. Yoh man. I mean that you don't operate the charger at its very extreme limits 24/7 at all times, or will you?

Q. No man, i won't. Yet could you specify, gimme some numbers for exemplification? 
A. As a rule of thumb, the max. charging power is ~13W_ per slot_, the max. discharging power is ~13W_ per device_. They are called "full load".

Q. So?
A. I'd define a "typical load" situation as 30~70% of these operational extremes ymmv.


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> Offline voltages of NiMH/NiZn can overlap as the geman product states:I question how safely commercial chargers can really detect between NiMH and NiZn automatically. These 2 chemistries should be split up imo for ease of mind and ease of use (KISS, see below).


 I think it can be done safely enough if the charger still monitors for voltage drop while charging, stopping if detected, even when assuming the cell is NiZn, and, conversely, switches to the CC/CV profile when the voltage exceeds that expected from NiMH, even when assuming the cell is of that type. I mean a combined algorithm, safe for both NiZn and NiMH, can be devised. That is not to say I'm asking for it, it really doesn't matter that much for me, although it would certainly be nice to have that.


----------



## kreisl

The most straightforward approach would be, for now, to exclude NiZn completely from automatic detection. neitcore, xstar, soshine, efest, maha, opus, litokaala, panasonic they all have banned the support of this exotic chemistry in their commercial chargers. To mimic i4 V2, NiZn can't be part of the package 

Just kidding. We'll see what the future brings us.


----------



## vex_zg

kreisl said:


> Hi, your very first post on CPF and then in this thread, my double welcome!
> 
> Yes, dV/dt delta peak sensibility (for NiMH/NiCd) and BattTemp threshold (for all chemistries) are configurable _per user program_, see my older post about options and parameter ranges. The two are program options, not global settings. In contrast, SysTemp threshold is a global quantity to protect the device itself (not the battery) from damage, e.g. on a hot summer afternoon.
> 
> From my experience, at typical loads good condition batteries don't get hot in the MC3000 neither during charge nor during discharge. That's because the bay metal contacts don't get hot from the internal system heat and because the batteries have low internal resistance. Heck one could even mimic MH-C9000's charging algorithm, i.e. 1.47V cut-off voltage plus top-off charge, which would never lead to warm batteries.
> 
> 
> Q. Yoh man. What exactly do you mean with "typical loads"?
> A. Yoh man. I mean that you don't operate the charger at its very extreme limits 24/7 at all times, or will you?
> 
> Q. No man, i won't. Yet could you specify, gimme some numbers for exemplification?
> A. As a rule of thumb, the max. charging power is ~13W_ per slot_, the max. discharging power is ~13W_ per device_. They are called "full load".
> 
> Q. So?
> A. I'd define a "typical load" situation as 30~70% of these operational extremes ymmv.



Well I Actually tried to register just to post in this thread, but then the username was taken, and then it turns out that I registered long time back but never posted 

I'm actually dwelling whether to buy 3 hobby charger (bulky!) or this one once it's out.

When I charge my AA NiMHs using 1-1.5A, they do get quite hot, 40-50C, and in 50% of the cases they reach this temperature even before they trip 5mV voltage drop used to detect end of charge. That's why I use temp threshold to not cook them, so they terminate either on dV/dT or temperature. Some cells would even go to 60*C without tripping 5mV drop, happens when I forget to connect temp sensor. If you use too low current, not to heat the cells, then perhaps you will never get the dV/dT. So IMHO, for a dream charger, you would need temp sensor per cell.

So Just to be sure: is it possible to terminate charge of a single cell, if temp threshold for that particular cell would be reached?

Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

Yes it would be possible to terminate the charging of a single cell, if temp threshold for that particular cell was reached. The charger has 4 BattTemp sensors and 2 sensors for measuring SysTemp. A total of 6 temperature sensors!

Erh don't buy 3 hobby chargers. Better buy 1 mc3k lol


----------



## vex_zg

kreisl said:


> Yes it would be possible to terminate the charging of a single cell, if temp threshold for that particular cell was reached. The charger has 4 BattTemp sensors and 2 sensors for measuring SysTemp. A total of 6 temperature sensors!
> 
> Erh don't buy 3 hobby chargers. Better buy 1 mc3k lol



6 temp sensors seems about right number 

allright then, I'll hold of buying 3 more hobby chargers 

I hate my current setup, I have like 5 different chargers and I always have to fiddle with magnets and different cradles. and aligator clips. I really do hope mc3k gets into mass production soon.


----------



## kreisl

_UPz said:


> do you know if the charger project is already in mass production scale?


Sorry for the late response, i had to check with them. As i understood full scale production has not started yet because of lead time for artwork, retail cardboard provision, user manual printing, a.o. little things for preparation on the way.


----------



## GMUGNIER

can we buy one now without the fancy box?


----------



## vex_zg

GMUGNIER said:


> can we buy one now without the fancy box?



No box and no manual. Just ship the darn thing wrapped in toilet paper, as long as it works


----------



## tatasal

vex_zg said:


> No box and no manual. Just ship the darn thing wrapped in toilet paper, as long as it works



Haha...when will the salivating finally end?


----------



## kreisl

Box is needed because it also contains the (heavyish) 60 Watts AC adapter. That being said, i can't know if one can buy charger without box. Maybe distributors can


----------



## dts71

kreisl said:


> Box is needed because it also contains the (heavyish) 60 Watts AC adapter.



Previously it has been mentioned that the charger would be shipped without adapter.
Could this still be an option for us that already have one? I'd rather keep the price down.


----------



## Dubois

dts71 said:


> Previously it has been mentioned that the charger would be shipped without adapter.
> Could this still be an option for us that already have one? I'd rather keep the price down.



I don't recall that shipping without a power supply was ever definitely confirmed - I think it was always an unknown.

I would imagine that the makers would be loathe to supply without a decent power supply. We have seen with the Opus how important this was, and SkyRC probably don't want their customer service to be inundated with "this thing isn't working properly" calls, only to discover that an inadequate power supply, not provided by them, was the cause.

Personally I'm glad the adapter is being supplied. Oh, and I want a pretty box too.


----------



## alternety

Having several Opi (sort of plural for Opus) I agree. Include a power supply.


----------



## kreisl

Opi, Klari, Rayi, Rofi, Feni, all correct 

Iirc the user manual lists charger, adapter, and manual as PACKAGE CONTENTS.
It's confirmed info that the package includes adapter (with correct mains plug) and that it does not include USB cable.
The shopper could ask the retailer for a special, i imagine easygoing sellers/distributors would indulge.
And if the seller did, i don't believe that the shopper could save many many $$'s.
(EDIT: anyway lemme ask them…)

I want de pretty box too. Therefore I won't get my retail unit earlier than sellers


----------



## Sharkie

I am ready to order... Any news on when in Canada? Amazon?

Thanks


----------



## tatasal

Guys, I have a feeling that the big plane from the sky (SKYrc, that is) is about to land, so let's be ready with our coin purses, big coin purses.....when, don't ask me!


----------



## alternety

I think I will wait for the second batch. But I think I want one or two.


----------



## >PETE<

Is there going to be a discounted group buy run when these become available?


----------



## kreisl

Sharkie sorry, really no info exists yet re when, amazon, Canada, etc. All such info will crystallize at a later point.

Pete, i asked and they're *puzzled*, not happy with the concept of a group buy and it would certainly not happen off their factory, if at all. The flashlight gb's i've been seeing in the recent past were realized by big Chinese etailers, mostly BG and GB, and really nobody knows at this point if all parties would consent to a gb, given that those dealers do get hold of stock, or sufficient stock.

I have no saying in it anyway, literally 'none of my biz' to even chat about it — i just know that the whole distribution, marketing, availability, and pricing thing is challenging so let's give them the time to figure everything out.


----------



## billcushman

I just received a reply from SkyRC requesting information on the MC3000 release date and MSRP.

"Thank you for your inquiry.
It will be released end of Oct and the MSRP hasn't beeen confirmed yet."


----------



## Curetia

Oh no  one more month to wait is not fair :thinking:

What is the meaning of MSRP?


----------



## kreisl

huh.

that's a bummer 

seems like things are creeping forward these days, me sorry too :mecry:

Well, i think "released" means the actual in-stock availability with local dealers, together with the announcement on the website 'Now available from your dealer' or so. And "end" doesn't need to mean the _very _end of the month, it's probably a safe conservative estimate, i guess. Anyway it is a bummer. :sigh:

[DEL]
MSRP is the list price or UVP, often valid for 1 year. For example the MSRP of MH-C9000 in 2015 is $79.95 but because of fierce open competition some dealers are willing to accept a smaller margin and sell at a lower price. Supply and demand would regulate the lowest market price then. If only 1 or 2 dealers worldwide carry a particular item, then it is unlikely that both dealers start a price war, especially if they are friendly colleagues. They'd give each other a phone call and sell at exactly the MSRP, and manufacturer, sellers, middlemen would all be content. Imo the important concept to know about MSRP is that it's a nominal price and does not necessarily mean that you must fork out this much for the item. It's the start price in a price tracking history, and the market determines the actual *price range*. Also don't forget special holidays such as Black Friday sales week, Pre-Xmas discounts, etc.

On premium brand flashlights there is also a MAP in addition to MSRP. But even then, dealers are allowed to advertise and offer specials like Deals of The Day, as seen on the other forum.
[/DEL]


----------



## tatasal

Hey guys, I hope the MC3000 main point man, Kreisl, will not object to this:

To make the waiting more bearable, why don't we make this thread livelier by discussing on, and even purely hilariously off, topic? Haha, remember the very long waiting time for the highly-praised Deft X ? We kept "vigil" about it until it finally came into fruition: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?352661-DEFT-X-OMG-Strikes-Back!!!


----------



## zhou

Hello! 

too much wait, i cant


----------



## Dubois

zhou said:


> Hello! The catalog said spring release, pages ago a user claimed august, Kreisl confirmed september, now it is october? :sigh:
> 
> Let me try to keep track of the status on my page, thanks for checking! :tinfoil:




You just need a little patience. Well, a lot of patience, actually.

Oh, and :welcome:


----------



## tatasal

Dubois said:


> You just need a little patience. Well, a lot of patience, actually.
> 
> Oh, and :welcome:



Oh yes, patience is a very nice virtue too... and I'm pretty confident SkyRC is not 'sleeping on the job' with this. Just take a look at this website of theirs: http://www.skyrc.com/ , it's not a small, start-up company for a fact.


----------



## psychbeat

Mmmmmm vegan bacon!!!


----------



## Uxorious

Checked with the official dealer today (in Taobao), they said at least we need to wait until end of October.......




Dubois said:


> You just need a little patience. Well, a lot of patience, actually.
> 
> Oh, and :welcome:


----------



## GMUGNIER

Is anyone here a distributor for SkyRC in North America with a phone number so i can ask a few questions about the brand? I was unable to find any info on the web site??


----------



## GMUGNIER

I guess that means - AH, No?


----------



## ediaz

Looks great even with the option of Storage for Li batterys


----------



## kreisl

GMUGNIER, sorry i couldn't sort out that piece of info either. Most of their products enter the NA market rebranded by US brands (OEM/ODM), and i doubt that i am at liberty to publicize which big American brands… Chances are that there is no dedicated SkyRC brand distributor for sales region USA+CANADA+HAWAII.

Woah. Another week has passed with no info updates. As i heard, things _are _in the works but some part supplier is behind schedule so production start is getting **layed. 

You want me to speak it out loud? - Mass production has not started yet.
There you have it :sick2:


----------



## tatasal

Waiting is absolutey always a big part of the excitement.......as they say, good food takes time


----------



## GMUGNIER

I just briefly read through the entire thread and I was unable to find why the battery bank feature was thrown out. Could anyone shed some light on this for me? I thought being able to use this as a way to charge ther devices was a nice feature


----------



## Dubois

GMUGNIER said:


> I just briefly read through the entire thread and I was unable to find why the battery bank feature was thrown out. Could anyone shed some light on this for me? I thought being able to use this as a way to charge ther devices was a nice feature



I think the consensus was that the charger would be too big and heavy to be practical as a battery bank. I tend to agree, especially since things like the Xiaomi 10000mAh usb boxes are so small & portable.


----------



## GMUGNIER

Yes i agree it is a large device, But have you considered when you have this charger with you - lets say on a job site with generator only power for a certain amount of time every day in remote locations - this feature would come in very handy to provide power when gen power is out.


----------



## _UPz

Cost was also one of the reasons, as well as precission


----------



## kreisl

The below video was recorded 1.0yr ago:



Design decisions for improvement were a question of compromise. The more features you integrate, the more features it has, nice, okay. Yet we weren't willing to pay the price: the technical downside meant reduced accuracy. In 2015 we accepted the disembowelment as a necessary ubel.





There are 9-14 days of holidays ahead, Mooncake Festival followed by National Day Golden Week. Makes me wonder what the October will really bring us …


----------



## Gauss163

It's a shame that the powerbank functionality was removed. Probably there will soon be comparable alternatives that do offer powerbank functionality (adding such does not necessarily imply compromising other features - that presumably was a fluke of this particular design).


----------



## _UPz

Other companies already have devices with powerbanking function, have a check. If you are ok with the charging-discharging function of those devices, then there is no reason to wait for nothing.

I'll keep waiting.


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> Probably there will soon be comparable alternatives that do offer powerbank functionality


Yes probablylovecpf

And we will welcome such a development in the industry whole-heartedly! Competition is healthy, and nobody minds if Panasonic (jp), Samsung (kr), Maha (tw), or Junsi (cn) come up with an even better machine. But their copy will also cost more, promised.


----------



## Gauss163

_UPz said:


> Other companies already have devices with powerbanking function...



Yes, of course. But by "comparable" I meant of comparable functionality (and, hopefully, quality). One could probably crowdsource design a jack-of-all-trades open-source charger that would truly be a dreamcharger. The combined expertise on CPF, BLF and other hobby forums probably far surpasses the expertise in SkyRC or analogous charger manufacturers. This is the way of the future.


----------



## gdillainepub

kreisl said:


> Thanks for sharing the details of your concerns. MH-C9000 comes with a limited 3-years warranty, i would test that out.
> Yes both charger models have pitfalls and tbh i am not stoked with either one either ( ).
> Erhm .. the mc3k iOS app hasn't been updated in a long time while there were many updates of the device firmware since. Clearly, the old iOS app still works (as i heard) but it will not 100.0% match the present firmware version ( that's my educated guess ). If you have specific questions re MC3000 (user manual, cycle history, eneloop, better than NC2500/C9000/etc?), i'll be glad to answer them in that thread, thx!




Hi kreisl,


Thanks for giving opinions on my thread : http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?407071-Seeking-advice-on-new-charger-purchase




Well, I do have a few questions about the NC3000. Unlike the NC2000 which you will need to choose a program (charge, refresh, etc.) , then you just leave the charger for the rest, until you wanna change of its charge termination parameters. But the MC3000 which I haven't seen the real product, the iphone app, it seems it complete works a different way --- you literally need to program every task, even for NiHM cells that has industrial standards how they should be handled. 


So i tried to add a program, but some parameters confuses me. Following are the examples (all for NiHM) of the parameters I don't know what they are and their significance to guarantee a proper "handling" of a NiHM cell: 


1. Charge: what are Cut Current, "Target Voltage", "Cut time", "Restart Voltage"


2. Refresh: seems to have the same parameters, but there is no "rest time" - the time the battery should be allowed to "rest" between charging/discharging.


3. Break-in: I'm amazed that it has the set of parameters as the Charge program -- because what "break-in" means is actually a procedure prescribed in an IEC standard (did some homework and I believe it should be IEC 61951-2) and labeled capacity is the only variable -- what's point to still provide so many variables, because if you don't do that the IEC way, it is not a "break-in" at all.

4. Cycles: there is a "Circle time (min)" -- i don't quite get that: you set how many cycles you wanna run and the sequence your prefer (like D->C->D or C-D-D, btw, providing options for the sequence is really sweet), and that's it -- what else time parameter would that be? And for the rest of the settings my questions are the same with Charge/discharge, and again, there isn't a "resting time" setting.

5. The last thing that puzzles me is that they have "eneloop" listed out from NiHM, but the parameters to set are the same as the generic NiHM settings. What's the point?

Well these are so far all my questions by only look into the iphone MC3000 app. But I did read somewhere in this post you said the MC3000 does provide "rest time" option somewhere (guess not from the app, at least not the version I have)

And yes! I would loooove to peak into the manual and see what is monster charger can do -- do you have it? anywhere i could download?

Since you could actually got your hands on the real thing and even the subsequent firmware updates , I guess you must have some inside sources you could poke around -- any word on when it will finally come to market? Oh hell, i wish i could have one of those right now like you do!


----------



## gdillainepub

kreisl said:


> Thanks for sharing the details of your concerns. MH-C9000 comes with a limited 3-years warranty, i would test that out.
> Yes both charger models have pitfalls and tbh i am not stoked with either one either (  ).
> Erhm .. the mc3k iOS app hasn't been updated in a long time while there were many updates of the device firmware since. Clearly, the old iOS app still works (as i heard) but it will not 100.0% match the present firmware version ( that's my educated guess ). If you have specific questions re MC3000 (user manual, cycle history, eneloop, better than NC2500/C9000/etc?), i'll be glad to answer them in that thread, thx!




And yes, another question: I always wanted a charger that can keep logs -- all the capacities (charge and discharge, especially discharge) it records in programs like "Refresh" and "Cycling" that involves multiple sessions of charging/discharging. Does NC-3000 have such capability?

And like the Voltage-Time diagram NC-2500 shows, instead of showing only the diagram for the last session, it will be really sweet if the charger's log can rebuild diagrams for its completed charge/discharge sessions when the task is a multiple-session program (refresh/cycling). This can be done by you choosing from a list of its finished sessions which one you wanna see and the app then shows you the diagram. Another way is that charger can output the logs in format a desktop computer software can read (software -- like the one HKJ uses in his reviews). 

If these two functions are possible with MC-3000, I will call it just one step away from my "dream charger" -- which can directly connected to a computer and has dedicated software for settings, monitor, and logging the charge, and the software has a Mac version!

yeah. let's call it hobby single cell charger (but i guess i'm asking for two much :huh


----------



## tatasal

gdillainepub said:


> (but i guess i'm asking for two much :huh



Well I guess nothing will be 'too much' if "price is no object". However, a delicate balancing act between excellent performance and features, great UI, affordability to the majority is just too difficult to ignore.


----------



## GMUGNIER

So will this be the most feature rich charger on the market, or is there something out there that will do it all? I looked through the SKYRC book and saw so many chargers, it was difficult to understand which one did what. Not very intuitive in the presentation layout.


----------



## kreisl

gdillainepub:
On the device one can set different rest times for CHARGE vs DISCHARGE, that's a new firmware feature since 2015. Your iOS app is fully functional but does not make use of the newer FW features. Other than that sorry i can't comment much on the iOS app (how much programming efforts is needed, rest time, Circle time, etc), i don't have iPhone for testing. In 2015 the device firmware underwent numerous revisions, and the iPhone app should get revised too to reflect the refinements. When i get the 2015 mc3k retail unit, i won't be able to test/review the iOS bluetooth app, somebody else could share impressions and thoughts about it and find out what "Circle time" really is because it's not mentioned in the manual.

On the device the user can view all discharged mAh's of programs like Refresh and Cycle, on the PC the user can also view the charged mAh's. The PC Link software graphs and records all data, and the user can save everything together to a single *.CSV file and open the file with any spreadsheet editor, for example in order to produce nicer looking graphs than the PC Link software already does. 

The LCD screen shows the entire Voltage-Time diagram, in 128×64 resolution.  On a smartphone, I'd like the idea of comparing different cycles within the same Cycle program. I can envision how the product will inspire owners to think of more and more improvements of the bluetooth app and the PC Link software. My advise then would be: submit your suggestions and ideas and forget. Not wait, not hope. Not dream. But work with and appreciate the versions of the initial market release. It's already taken too long to get this total product package (hardware, firmware, PC Link software, bluetooth app, decent user manual) out, and firmware refinement (_urgent/necessary_) will always have higher priority than improving PC Link software or bluetooth app for the sake of improvement (_not necessary_). I guess the latter will mostly depend on user demand and the commercial success of the product.

The manual is not ready yet, nor approved, for publication. I am wondering if it will be made available for download before or only after the physical market release. Hopefully users will be more confident about the many options and parameters after reading the printed manual. I had a glance over some pre-PDF and everything looks well explained for our purpose. Sorry for referring you to the manual and not copy/pasting the PDF contents (about cut time, target voltage, etc) here.


----------



## gdillainepub

kreisl said:


> gdillainepub:
> ... the refinements. When i get the 2015 mc3k *retail unit*, i won't be able to test/review the iOS bluetooth app, somebody else could share impressions and thoughts about it and find out what "Circle time" really is because it's not mentioned in the manual.
> 
> On the device the user can view all discharged mAh's of programs like Refresh and Cycle, on the PC the user can also view the charged mAh's. The *PC Link software *graphs and records all data, and the user can save everything together to a single *.CSV file and open the file with any spreadsheet editor, for example in order to produce nicer looking graphs than the PC Link software already does.
> .....




WOOOW!! 

I noticed that you used the word "retail" -- does that mean that they already have a retail package but is currently only released to a limited people for some sort of beta test?

And there is a PC Link software ?!:sick2: I really didn't notice that but i just checked their website. There is no mentioning of MC3000 in the "Products" section however google finds MC3000 in their 2015 catalog: http://www.skyrc.com/download/catalog.pdf And PC-Link was indeed mentioned in that catalog. This is a really long thread and I'm sorry I haven't read all the posts. Google also links me to the page 5 of this thread and on post #125 you mentioned that the PC-Link software works with MC3000 was actually from a third party (EBC-A), right? i tried to find EBC-A but seems the search results were not the EBC-A you were talking about. Mind give me a link of your EBCA battery charger analyzer?

Also i'm curious how you upgrade MC3000 firmware. Because the NC2500 firmware was upgraded when the ios app was first connected to it. Since the MC3000 app hasn't been updated for a long time, via what interface/software do you upgrade its firmware.

Given that thought, do you happen to know that NC2500 also has new firmwares available? Since its app hasn't been updated for a while either there is no way to find out for us normal users.

As to their priority regarding the firmware/app/computer software, i believe they are equally important. If this advanced charger are given with all the functionalities by the firmware, yet the user interface (app &/OR computer software) is not updated accordingly -- what good is that if users don't have access to those functions, right?

And i'm still anxious to find out when exactly the MC3000 will finally hit the market. If you have any information you're free to disclose I'd really love to know.. weeks, months, or no schedule at all? :sigh: I can't wait to get my hands on it.


----------



## kreisl

The other day i ordered commercial 16160 conductive spacers from FT to learn how well the MC3000 is suitable for charging (and analyzing) 10180 batteries. After all, the charger supports down to 50mA nominal charge rate for LiIon (and all other supported chemistries). One could employ these spacers in other chargers too but only few 4-bay chargers offer charge rates as low as 50mA.







The nominal capacity of the white DQG branded battery is 70mAh. 50mA equals a charge rate of 0.7C, nice that sounds safe enough. The 16mm Ø spacer may sit in the tray, whereas the tiny battery is best suspended at its terminals to ensure electrical connection and perfect axial symmetry. I guess one could support the battery with a paper pad underneath:











Does the slider exert sufficient pressure at the contact point, the negative (-)terminal of the battery? The answer is yes. With the spacer the arrangement has the same length as a 16340 battery:






If one substituted a non-conductive cylinder for the 10180 battery, for example a 3cm long hot glue stick, this arrangement could possibly be misused to charge & analyze single cell non-cylindrical LiIon batteries like a smartphone battery. The user manual explicitly warns the user not to abuse a MC3000 slot as 'single cell hobby charger'; what happens when you wire up a battery and the crocodile clips (=battery terminals!!) touch each other by accident? The danger of you short-circuiting your own smartphone battery with your own wires and clips is way too high.

Anyhow, the tip of aluminum spacer is long enough to mount a crocodile clip. Helpful if the advanced user wanted to log the *voltage *in parallel with a digital multimeter and compare the DMM reading with the MC3000 voltage measurement:






Note that the photos in this post show the old firmware on my old prototype charger test sample. The sliders on the retail unit are minimally different (shaping, silver-plating) and the instead of a blinking READY the LCD shows a blinking PROGRAM[01], or whichever program number (=program) got pre-assigned to the slot. Charging with 0.05A (=50mA) works with any battery size, not only with 10180 batteries:







Q. So??
A. So what? 

Q. What's the result of the DQG 10180 capacity measurement? You did analyze the batteries, didn't you?
A. No, not yet. Sorry but I am saving the batteries for tests with the mc3k retail unit which is a much more accurate analyzer than my above prototype.

Q. OIC. But how can you claim so if you haven't reviewed the production version yet? 
A. The maker told me about the test reports and i believe the Chinese. Too bad that everybody has gone on National Day Gold Week vacation argh. 

Q. Why go through all that effort when you could have tested 50mA charging on any cell?
A. The point was to investigate if it is possible to charge 10180 safely with MC3000 and how it is done in detail.

Q. Why would you want to charge 10180 with MC3000? Doesn't your 10180 flashlight come with a charger solution?
A. I don't want to buy another charger if MC3000 can charge it too. No, my 10180 flashlight comes with 3×LR44 and no recharging solution.


----------



## Gauss163

@kreisl Why go through all that effort when you could have tested 50mA charging on any cell?

In any case, to effectively analyze (smaller capacity) noncylindrical cells like those from cellphones, rather than risk damaging a very expensive multislot analyzing charger, instead I recommend obtaining a cheaper but more versatile CC/CV charger. For example, the Minghe B3008 can be had for about $19 on eBay, and it has continuously adjustable charge current (claims 0.001A regulation/display). There are analogous dischargers discussed here and on BLF.


----------



## tatasal

Meanwhile, the salivating continues...


----------



## _UPz

kreisl said:


> ...
> 
> The nominal capacity of the white DQG branded battery is 70mAh. 50mA equals a charge rate of 0.7C, nice that sounds safe enough. The 16mm Ø spacer may sit in the tray, whereas the tiny battery is best suspended at its terminals to ensure electrical connection and perfect axial symmetry. I guess one could support the battery with a paper pad underneath:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> ..



How do the charger know battery temp if the cell is suspended in the air and not touching the tray sensor?


----------



## GMUGNIER

Does anybody know if this charger has the hardware for the battery bank, and the firm ware wont support it, or does it need additional harware to make a battery bank work? Is this something that we can modify ourselves and add by tweaking the internal firmware?


----------



## kreisl

gdillainepub said:


> As to their priority regarding the firmware/app/computer software, i believe they are equally important.


"equally important" .. we'll see how it goes, the market perception. Personally, i love the PC connectivity and don't mind Bluetooth.

helo i think you misread my mentioning of EBC-A. its software is neat and gets updated regularly maybe twice per year but i don't know Chinese and it's not compatible with mc3k. anyhow the mc3k IFA thread wouldn't be the proper place to find out about potential competitors 

The firmware updates through PC Link software. I posted examples before. A Windows PC is required and a household USB cable.

Sorry I don't check up on NC2500 updates. I have the 2k5 charger too but find our 2.5yr old nimh bluetooth charger of little interest since the advent of 3k which could be seen as successor or bigger brother in terms of looks DNA, see this very early aesthetic design draft:






No further news or updates available at this point. The latest quote posted in this thread regarding 'date' cited end of October. Last month i cited roll-out September, and in July someone said end of August. Reminds me of pre-ordering new Zebralights


----------



## gdillainepub

kreisl said:


> "equally important" .. we'll see how it goes, the market perception. Personally, i love the PC connectivity and don't mind Bluetooth.
> 
> helo i think you misread my mentioning of EBC-A. its software is neat and gets updated regularly maybe twice per year but i don't know Chinese and it's not compatible with mc3k. anyhow the mc3k IFA thread wouldn't be the proper place to find out about potential competitors
> 
> The firmware updates through PC Link software. I posted examples before. A Windows PC is required and a household USB cable.
> 
> Sorry I don't check up on NC2500 updates. I have the 2k5 charger too but find our 2.5yr old nimh bluetooth charger of little interest since the advent of 3k which could be seen as successor or bigger brother in terms of looks DNA, see this very early aesthetic design draft:




Hi Kreisl, thanks for the additional information:

1. Well if I understand this correctly: You personally would certainly love the app and computer software keeping up to speed with the firmware updates. However you consider if you take the manufacturer's angle, they should consider firmware updates of greater priority, correct? And you also stressed the "market perception" which to my understanding is that you were saying the "market conception" was a determining factor how they prioritize the firmware/app/computer software.

Well, this is the part i don't quite understand. Like you said the MC3000 is totally an upgrade or the "pro version" of NC2500 -- i guess this is so obvious and everyone interested in these chargers can see that, in your words they apparently share the same DNA even by the chassis design. But what makes NC2500 so special was obviously its iOS connectivity and the dedicated app. That's the "smart" part of this charger, perceived by both the manufacturer's ads as well as public opinions (all the review articles online and video clips on youtube). 

That's the reason I believe firmware/app/software are equally important. Because many of the rich functions embedded in the firmware can only be accessed through the iOS or android app, and the computer software for that matter. If NC2500 came along with an outdated app that could not exploit all its functions, or the user choose to use the charger on the device itself, the NC2500 would not be much different from other chargers like the MAHA 9000. right? And this "smart" and special part of the charger should also apply to MC3000 -- without the app/computer software its capability would be considerably diminished -- so i really don't see how the market perception could affect the development of the app/software in line with the firmware. Everyone -- at least those who are keen to these charger stuff -- are excited because NC2500/MC3000 might be the first single cell chargers with app/computer controls, and that's the innovation here which makes them unique. Their targeted market -- people enthusiastic about precision charging control, how could they consider the app/computer link not the most important reason that arouses their desire to purchase? But for the rest of the market, the majority of normal consumers, a dumb charger with a refresh button (like the sanyo one) makes them happy already; and this part of the market is not relevant to MC3000, and not even for the old MAHA 9000: how can they be bothered to press the extra buttons while they can just plug the batteries in and go?

2. "potential competitors" you said: are there any already? (EBC-A??) oo: Are you just teasing us or there are in fact other competitor products (launched or will be launched very soon) you know of? Well at least I didn't find any when I was looking up and down in the hobby chargers trying to find any that can charge single cell.

3. Ok so I misunderstood the part about EBC-A pc link. Since you mentioned EBC-A as an "charger-analyzer" i assumed it was charger for single cell batteries. If that is true could you kindly post a link to their website (Chinese or English i wanna take a look anyway), because when i tried to google EBC-A the results showed websites with "EBC" in the name of some equipment that looks like for industrial use, and not a product with the exact "EBC-A" as its name or model.

4. The MC3k PC Link -- thank for the link and I saw that picture. So this "PC Link" is not that pc link for the EBC-A but SkyRC's proprietary "PC-Link" for the MC3000. Could you also post a link if this software can already be openly downloaded -- just want to take a peak what's inside even i don't have an MC3000 . 

And thanks a great deal for so much unreleased detail. :twothumbs


----------



## kreisl

_UPz said:


> How do the charger know battery temp if the cell is suspended in the air and not touching the tray sensor?


If you're concerned about off readings, you could make the charger ignore. :huh:
The corresponding option in the user program is CUT TEMP, select OFF, how ironical!, as the parameter 

Maybe some destructive abuser could  that 10180 cherry with 3 amps in a crazy youtube? :laughing:
Afaik there is still an internal slot eff0f8 temperature limit no matter if the user sets OFF as CUT TEMP.


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> If you're concerned about off readings, you could make the charger ignore. :huh:
> The corresponding option in the user program is CUT TEMP, select OFF, how ironical!, as the parameter .



Are the temp readings employed in the Li-ion charge algorithm? Will it terminate/pause the charge or lower the current if the cell/charger temp becomes too high?


----------



## kreisl

GMUGNIER said:


> has the hardware for the battery bank, and the firm ware wont support it, or does it need additional harware to make a battery bank work? Is this something that we can modify ourselves and add by tweaking the internal firmware?


We cannot tweak the firmware for powerbanking nor can we modify ourselves because the charger has not the hardware for power bank any longer. All circuitry and components belonging to powerbanking are gone, ripped out. Can't fix missing


----------



## Sharkie

Any news on the availability ?


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> Are the temp readings employed in the Li-ion charge algorithm? Will it terminate/pause the charge or lower the current if the cell/charger temp becomes too high?


Good questions. 

Yes, temp readings are employed in the programs:
► If BattTemp becomes too high, the charger terminates the operation (e.g. Charge) in the slot.
Like any analog thermometer, the slot sensors are live no matter if there is no operation nor battery in it. A BattTemp Too Hi warning is issued when they register any maxing temperature; the lower safety limit is the value set (or not set) by the user in the user program, the upper safety limit -the safety net- is a value anchored in the present firmware and left to the discretion of the FW developing team.
► If SysTemp becomes high, i noticed on my old protos that the load was automatically lowered, which i personally did not appreciate because then the operation is not a "constant current" operation anymore. If SysTemp becomes too high, a SysTemp Too Hi warning would be issued and operation of the charger terminated or paused … depending  on the firmware version.

Whatever info i just gave you regarding your questions, it may prove wrong after the next firmware update. If so many owners vehemently oppose how the present firmware processes temp readings, then we'd discuss the topic and submit the best cpf ideas to the maker team.


----------



## Sharkie

kreisl said:


>


Too bad teleporters aren't invented.


----------



## GMUGNIER

So I am not trying to hi-jack this post, but I had asked a question earlier on and had not received an answer. I have looked at the myriad of chargers offered by SkyRC and was completely overwhelmed, does anyone know if this is the most feature rich charger on the market? And does SkyRC have anything with more features for cell type batteries? I see that the rc battery chargers are in a different category. Thanks.


----------



## Gauss163

@kreisl Thanks for the info on the design of the thermal protection. It should prove interesting to do a temperature torture test to see how well it performs. This really should be done in _every_ (comprehensive) charger review, but only rarely is it performed.


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> If so many owners vehemently oppose how the present firmware processes temp readings, then we'd discuss the topic and submit the best cpf ideas to the maker team.



I was hoping that, with Bluetooth capability, it could communicate exceptional conditions, say by text messages.

For example: "Hey stupid user, you're supposed to always watch me. Now I'm on (Ultra)fire, and they are venting their sand in my face. HELP!"


----------



## Viking

GMUGNIER said:


> So I am not trying to hi-jack this post, but I had asked a question earlier on and had not received an answer. I have looked at the myriad of chargers offered by SkyRC and was completely overwhelmed, does anyone know if this is the most feature rich charger on the market? And does SkyRC have anything with more features for cell type batteries? I see that the rc battery chargers are in a different category. Thanks.



If you are talking about chargers with integrated battery bays, it is.
I'm personally looking very forward for this release. Only concern is about the accuracy of the measurements.
SkyRC has before been subject for criticism in that regard ( The NC2500 charger ). 

For that reason I will wait to order until we know whether that is an issue too, with this particularly charger.
Kreisl has stated he would check the accuracy ( compare it with other chargers readings I guess ).


----------



## GMUGNIER

Viking said:


> If you are talking about *chargers with integrated battery bays*, it is.
> I'm personally looking very forward for this release. Only concern is about the accuracy of the measurements.
> SkyRC has before been subject for criticism in that regard ( The NC2500 charger ).
> 
> For that reason I will wait to order until we know whether that is an issue too, with this particularly charger.
> Kreisl has stated he would check the accuracy ( compare it with other chargers readings I guess ).



Are there chargers more feature rich with external battery trays?


----------



## kreisl

Viking said:


> Only concern is about the accuracy of the measurements.
> SkyRC has before been subject for criticism in that regard ( The NC2500 charger ).


I have Imax B6genuine, Imax B6mini, NC2500. Admittedly their accuracy was soso. On the one hand within spec, on the other hand nothing superior.
In contrast, one of MC3000's forte _is_ its accuracy fwiw and also the main reason why production cost is higher.


----------



## Viking

kreisl said:


> I have Imax B6genuine, Imax B6mini, NC2500. Admittedly their accuracy was soso. On the one hand within spec, on the other hand nothing superior.
> In contrast, one of MC3000's forte _is_ its accuracy fwiw and also the main reason why production cost is higher.



That sounds very encouraging. I'm looking forward to your observations.


----------



## Viking

GMUGNIER said:


> Are there chargers more feature rich with external battery trays?




I don't know whether other ordinary consumer hobby chargers have more features or not. Since I don't personally have an interest for them, I haven't been looking much into it. I'm sure others can tell more about this.

But there are some professional charger/analysers in the plus $ 1.000,- price range with probably more features, like cadex and Vencon for instance.
But these are usually targeted businesses, not ordinary consumers.
You can buy them if you want to of course. But I don't guess you was referring to such expensive charger/analysers.


----------



## Curetia

There will be a chance of getting this charger under the christmas tree  I hope that I can buy it in November to get it in December


----------



## GMUGNIER

Viking said:


> I don't know whether other ordinary consumer hobby chargers have more features or not. Since I don't personally have an interest for them, I haven't been looking much into it. I'm sure others can tell more about this.
> 
> But there are some professional charger/analysers in the plus $ 1.000,- price range with probably more features, like cadex and Vencon for instance.
> But these are usually targeted businesses, not ordinary consumers.
> You can buy them if you want to of course. But I don't guess you was referring to such expensive charger/analysers.



I appreciate your help Viking, and yes you are correct. I don't have any intention on spending $1000.00 US on any charger. But i don't think i would mind if it were a couple hundred and it was the last charger i would have to buy.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Neither would I mind paying a couple of hundred if it was everything I wanted. But I don't think I would want it to be in the last one I bought category - I would always hope for something much better after a few years. The Maha C9000 has been the best around for a long time now and I think probably still is for NiMH but it does not do LiIon for instance. In 5 - 10 years we might (will) have new battery chemistries for a charger/analyser to accommodate in addition to what we have now. If the MC3000 is as good as the C9000 and on top for as long as that has been, it would be worth my $200 or so.


GMUGNIER said:


> But i don't think i would mind if it were a couple hundred and it was the last charger i would have to buy.


----------



## kreisl

Curetia said:


> There will be a chance of getting this charger under the christmas tree  I hope that I can buy it in November to get it in December


Nabend Curetia :wave:,

the new word out is that full scale production is not to commence until the end of this month. All parts were ordered time ago and there _were _hold-ups from the suppliers' part, let alone the past 2 weeks holiday season (Mooncake Festival+National Holiday Golden Week). Everybody involved in the process is sorry about the repeated delays (Aug, Sep, Oct). November release date is now as realistic as ever, and i'll update on any advances.

Meanwhile they offered to send me the set of early production samples for forum review but i declined. I'd prefer the complete retail package with printed manual, pretty box, styrofoam:nana:, serial numbering and whatnot.

Despite the miserable waiting i manage to keep the spirits up: What counts to me, the thing _has _become reality. This means I am mightily relieved, no more funny dreams yay!


----------



## light-wolff

Available for "arrival notice" on Gearbest
US$ 133.53 (50% off, WTF?)
Photos says "Available: Spring 2015"


----------



## kreisl

As confirmed by Sky office the Gearbest page is a 'fake listing' in every respect. Stolen outdated photo (from Google Images, IFA 2014), wrong edited specs, wrong pic, wrong info, and most of all wrong price. Sky never quoted any price to anyone because it is still unknown.

Gearbest is probably on the flashlight forums and got requests from shoppers about this product and then decided to make up a fake page to learn about number of interested people.

Safely ignore.

Nice try Gearbest


----------



## _UPz

kreisl said:


> As confirmed by Sky office the Gearbest page is a 'fake listing' in every respect. Stolen outdated photo (from Google Images, IFA 2014), wrong edited specs, wrong pic, wrong info, and most of all wrong price. Sky never quoted any price to anyone because it is still unknown.
> 
> Gearbest is probably on the flashlight forums and got requests from shoppers about this product and then decided to make up a fake page to learn about number of interested people.
> 
> Safely ignore.
> 
> Nice try Gearbest



Gearbest is well know in forums (not only flashlights) for their poor (dirty) marketing tricks. Not a reputable source. Shame on GB for using not legit pictures, nor specs, nor price...
I am with kreisl and the guess it's just a market temperature testing for them.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

_UPz said:


> Gearbest is well know in forums (not only flashlights) for their poor (dirty) marketing tricks. Not a reputable source. Shame on GB for using not legit pictures, nor specs, nor price...
> I am with kreisl and the guess it's just a market temperature testing for them.


Either that or a way of getting people onto their site hoping to tempt them to buy something else there.


----------



## Gauss163

If GB does honor the quoted price (snapshot below) then you should be rejoicing, not complaining, since it will probably be lower than elsewhere. If if turns out that they don't honor the price, then that is the appropriate time to complain about their integrity.


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> since it will probably be lower than elsewhere



the number is a total fantasy number. based on thin air.

i am not going pay that much money for it. :shakehead


----------



## braddy

Gearbest has no integrity, if you have a problem with them then don't let them stall you for months, make your complaint to them and give them one chance to make right, and then don't waste anymore time, as you go to Paypal.


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> the number (price) is a total fantasy number. based on thin air.


Your remarks are highly inconsistent (just like your _many _wrong claims about the release date). 

Do you know the expected price or not? If not, then your above statement makes no sense.


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> If not, then your above statement makes no sense.



technically you are right. i only know that it will cost more than 50US$.

you win


----------



## Gauss163

Well I'll certainly be happier if it costs closer to $50 than $133. Let's hope for some more concrete information soon.


----------



## braddy

kreisl said:


> As confirmed by Sky office the Gearbest page is a 'fake listing' in every respect. Stolen outdated photo (from Google Images, IFA 2014), wrong edited specs, wrong pic, wrong info, and most of all wrong price. Sky never quoted any price to anyone because it is still unknown.
> 
> 
> Safely ignore.
> 
> Nice try Gearbest



If you checked with the manufacturer, then you must be correct in your statement. ""the number (price) is a total fantasy number. based on thin air.""


----------



## kreisl

braddy said:


> If you checked with the manufacturer


i did:


kreisl said:


> As confirmed by Sky office


----------



## Gauss163

braddy said:


> If you checked the manufacturer...



Kreisl has confirmed above that the only thing he knows about the price is "that it will cost more than 50US$". That implies nothing whatsoever about whether or not GB will honor the price that they quoted (or how that price may compare to others).


----------



## braddy

He has told us what the manufacturer has said about the Gearbest page and price, the manufacturer makes it clear that Gearbest is making it up.


----------



## kreisl

Yet another Chinese vendor with the same stunt: Banggood :fail:
Looks like a copy paste of the Gearbest page. Both vendors have been notified to take down the bogus page (totally made up page with wrong info, wrong specs, outdated st*len photos/pics, bogus price).

(...)

I heard user manual has grown in size now totalling 41 numbered pages aha yes sir


----------



## Ferdinando

41 pages !!
wow !!


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> ... thus the charger is able to accept a whole variety of PSU adapters from your household (12V, 15V, 18V, *whatever *you got!)



Frequently users have spare high-quality *19V *PSU's left over from old laptops. Will it work with them? 

It is not clear why 18V (vs 19V) is often specified as an upper limit. Perhaps that is the upper limit of some commonly used component(s)?


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> With MC3000 it is now possible to 'produce' LiIon cells with any *stable *voltage between 2.50-4.25V with 1 or 2 program steps.



Is this really true? To _dis_charge to a *stable *voltage you would need a CV phase during _dis_charge also. Does the MC3000 have that? 

Can the MC3000 be programmed to _maintain _a cell at _any _voltage, with user-settable recharge threshold? For example, this would allow the user to simulate the laptop battery-saver feature, e.g. charging and keeping cells at 4.0V in "standy mode".

Ideally a dreamcharger should have a way to (dis)charge to any (safe) user-specified voltage, with user-controllable CV and maintenance phases.


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> Is this really true? To _dis_charge to a *stable *voltage you would need a CV phase during _dis_charge also. Does the MC3000 have that?


Yes, it has. The option is called D.REDUCE.

If your aim is "charging and keeping cells at 4.0V" you could play with the RESTART VOLT option. The minimum voltage difference between TARGET VOLT and RESTART VOLT is 0.02V, for example 4.00/3.98V, please check my post #300. For LiIon, the TRICKLE C. option is fixed OFF. For NiMH, TRICKLE C. and RESTART VOLT are mutually exclusive: only one the two options can be active.

Information _why _18V is the upper limit in the spec is not available. 19V PSU adapters won't work, the screen will give you an input overvoltage warning and the charger refuse to operate properly.


----------



## Dubois

Gauss163 said:


> Frequently users have spare high-quality *19V *PSU's left over from old laptops. Will it work with them?
> 
> It is not clear why 18V (vs 19V) is often specified as an upper limit. Perhaps that is the upper limit of some commonly used component(s)?




I'm slightly confused. I thought the MC3000 package would include a power supply. Has this changed?


----------



## Curetia

I hope that they will include a power supply, because I don't have one for a charger.


----------



## kreisl

from User Manual:







​


----------



## Phlogiston

Kreisl, do you happen to know if SkyRC will ship production units directly to reviewers like HKJ at the same time as they ship to the dealers? 

In common with many people here on CPF, I wouldn't be buying one until I'd seen a good review from someone like HKJ, so it would be a good thing for the retail packaged production units to land in the reviewers' queues as soon as possible.


----------



## kreisl

I am only aware of SkyRC shipping desktop copy to me and to Third-Party software developer for PC Link software alternative.

Others could ask their preferred vendor (BG, GB, FT, or a local national dealer) for a sponsored sample i guess. Actually it is rather common practice these days that those vendors contact an active forum user or customer and even ask for a review, see for example reviews on budgetlightforum.com .

Anyway.

I am gonna be the first to forum review it :huh:


----------



## braddy

To not send one to HJK would imply a lack of confidence in their charger.


You should instruct them to get one to him as quickly as possible.


----------



## kreisl

oic


----------



## braddy

I have no idea what that means, what does it mean?


----------



## Dubois

braddy said:


> I have no idea what that means, what does it mean?




Oh, I See, perhaps?


----------



## kreisl

​


----------



## Gauss163

Or Opus Induced Constipation - what happens to a squirrel who chews on C3100's too long, when they prefer nuttier MC3000's.

It seems that the poor squirrel had such a bad case that he had to "give away all my Opus"


----------



## KeepingItLight

What HKJ said, and make it double, since a PB reduces accuracy and increases price, too!


----------



## kreisl

Today i was testing the box construction. Will it work? Surprise, the top face is showing QR-code for iOS app and for Android app. And that's the news item for today: The Android app is in the works and almost done. Not totally bug-free yet . Will be posted on Google Play Store soon! Full box size be 250×245×95mm.

Compared to the 1yr old pic in the OP it looks like the 8 buttons have now white ink in the grooves. Nice touch, sweet!







it's going to be a very compact charger in the end, or maybe not? 






mc3k. mini charger 3000 so to speak *g*





box tested. works. 



light-wolff said:


> Edit: Hey kreisl, this isn't fair, you edited your post and added a photo with a HUGE box. Now which one is real size?


EDIT: schachtel good for storing four NCR, not much space left. :shrug: Now i am confused two :help:


----------



## light-wolff

KeepingItLight said:


> What HKJ said, and make it double, since a PB reduces accuracy and increases price, too!


HKJ? Last post of HKJ in this thread:


HKJ said:


> Just a documented virtual serial port connection would be enough, then the software is easy to make.



Anyway, I wasn't very keen on this charger, one of the reasons being its size. Now I see how SMALL it will actually be (sse box above). That's incredible! I have to have one!

Edit: Hey kreisl, this isn't fair, you edited your post and added a photo with a HUGE box. Now which one is real size?


----------



## KeepingItLight

Sorry, folks. I was responding to something that is old news. Somehow I thought I was reading a current post when I replied.



kreisl said:


> The topic is the integrated power bank which i so much have been loving for testing and playing with in my earlier protos, it`s been part of my dream of a non-portable premium charger ever since, and it worked pleasingly well, as demoed in 1 or 2 of my youtubes.
> 
> 1) Are you or aren`t you going to use (or play with) the mc3k power bank functionality occasionally, for any reason whatever?
> 
> 2) Would you prefer to save the 10$ and have a simpler yet more accurate device instead?
> 
> 3) Disregarding 1)&2), wouldn`t you _want to have_ this feature nonetheless?, or do you really not care for having it at all, or even find this feature silly and stupid?
> 
> Please help by voicing your opinion on the topic..





HKJ said:


> As I have said before, I do not see the idea of a power bank in a stationary device. It might supply usb current when powered from mains for charging a phone or other stuff.
> I want power banks to be transportable.





KeepingItLight said:


> What HKJ said, and make it double, since a PB reduces accuracy and increases price, too!


----------



## turkeylord

This thread is such a train wreck, lol.

Charger looks like it will be awesome though.


----------



## kreisl

turkeylord said:


> This thread is such a train wreck, lol.


Sorry but i will have to take it as compliment :laughing:

News item of today, look what i've found: 

ANDROID app is now publicly available on Google Play Store:




One can install it already but please don't judge it yet. The app is a work in progress and we can assume that there will be updates, improved versions regularly.

So this entire MC3000 product is really coming to life huh :thinking:


----------



## _UPz

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## romteb

turkeylord said:


> This thread is such a train wreck, lol.



This must be your first day on the interwebs :laughing:, i have never seen a Squirrel thread that was less a train wreck than this one, even in absolute term it would hardly register on a very sensitive train wreck mesuring device.


----------



## roadwarrior

I believe someone mentioned the owner's manual is 41 pages or so on here...anybody got a link to it yet?

Thanks.


----------



## dts71

I tried the MC3000 app for Iphone (5s running 9.02). 
It instantly crashes.

As a reference NC2500 app will start, but since I don't have that charger I can't verify any functionality.


----------



## Ferdinando

+1
if Bluetooth is activated


----------



## kreisl

dts71 said:


> It instantly crashes.





Ferdinando said:


> +1


----------



## _UPz

I managed to enter the app menu, somehow :thinking:

It's buggy, but interesting. Guess it's just an early/buggy version posted in google play/apple store just to have a working QR code for the actual box/manual printing stage.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Hi kreisl

Will the MC3000 charge D size rechargeable NiMH batteries?


----------



## _UPz

7histology said:


> Hi kreisl
> 
> Will the MC3000 charge D size rechargeable NiMH batteries?



Afaik, yes.


----------



## dts71

7histology said:


> Hi kreisl
> 
> Will the MC3000 charge D size rechargeable NiMH batteries?



It's in the spec. in the first post.


----------



## kreisl

Any updates or news? 

Anyone with a link to the manual or something?

Anything?


:candle:

Nothing?


----------



## roadwarrior

I thought that was what you were for?


----------



## kreisl

After so long without progress i've been dozing off :ironic: and almost forgot about my role here.

Anti-news: mass production has not started yet! OMG

Drives me insane, those weeks without sleep.

But let me go home once the product has been released, i can't be the only one ever reporting 

Happy weekend y'all.


----------



## Curetia

1. http://www.hkequipment.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MC3000&Click=2819
2. http://www.gearbest.com/chargers/pp_260893.html

But I dont linke the stories of the missing shipments of Gearbest so I will prefer HKE.


----------



## kreisl

Finally the sky marketing dpt figured out the list price for future distribution, the MSRP is 119.95US$ 

This is the number which international distributors, importers, retailers, etailers, amazon, ebay, etc will be working with as starting point. End consumers, potential buyers should not worry too much. Afaik list price does not necessarily mean that the future street price has to be this exact number at all times of the year. Market forces, e.g. supply and demand, will play a role too to form the street price. Then there is also holiday sales, personal discounts (e.g. email, ebay Make An Offer-button) and so on.

These days I can see a promotional discount on HKE and GB. This is correct, they will be the very first to receive stock, and it is to reward early adopters, also as a sorry for the long wait i guess . The offer is time-limited and should be valid thru 12-31. _My _forum review will be finished before that date, rest assured.

(…)

Okay, i suggest we don't discuss prices, vendors, and similar OT topics too much in this thread. Mass production should start now any day, i'll post. Product webpage should be online on sky website soon too to make everything official.


----------



## >PETE<

So are these pre-order prices? I didn't think it was in mass production yet


----------



## roadwarrior

kreisl said:


> _My _forum review will be finished before that date, rest assured



Looking forward to it!


----------



## LiteTheWay

Great news kreisl. Can we get a link to the manual do you think?





kreisl said:


> Finally the sky marketing dpt figured out the list price for future distribution, the MSRP is 119.95US$
> 
> This is the number which international distributors, importers, retailers, etailers, amazon, ebay, etc will be working with as starting point. End consumers, potential buyers should not worry too much. Afaik list price does not necessarily mean that the future street price has to be this exact number at all times of the year. Market forces, e.g. supply and demand, will play a role too to form the street price. Then there is also holiday sales, personal discounts (e.g. email, ebay Make An Offer-button) and so on.
> 
> These days I can see a promotional discount on HKE and GB. This is correct, they will be the very first to receive stock, and it is to reward early adopters, also as a sorry for the long wait i guess . The offer is time-limited and should be valid thru 12-31. _My _forum review will be finished before that date, rest assured.
> 
> (…)
> 
> Okay, i suggest we don't discuss prices, vendors, and similar OT topics too much in this thread. Mass production should start now any day, i'll post. Product webpage should be online on sky website soon too to make everything official.


----------



## light-wolff

To avoid trouble, both HKE and GB better remove "USB Power Output DC5v / 2.1A" resp. "Output Voltage: DC 5V 2.1A" from their specifications.


----------



## HKJ

light-wolff said:


> To avoid trouble, both HKE and GB better remove "USB Power Output DC5v / 2.1A" resp. "Output Voltage: DC 5V 2.1A" from their specifications.



Why, it has that output power on the usb connector (I suppose) when powered.


----------



## kreisl

>PETE< said:


> I didn't think it was in mass production yet



Mass. pro. duc. tion. has. not. star. ted. yet.


The sky mc3k webpage should be up soon .. but i don't think that the manual can be posted then. For one, the thing is being rewritten(?) to include new user interface of improved smartphone app versions (android? apple?). That's what i heard, could be excuses by them


----------



## light-wolff

HKJ said:


> Why, it has that output power on the usb connector (I suppose) when powered.


I thought this feature had been removed. But thinking again (thinking twice is always better), was it only the power bank function (5V powered by batteries) that was removed, but not 5V powered by 12V supply?
kreisl, can you enlighten us (me)?


----------



## kreisl

only the power bank function (5V powered by batteries) was removed, but not 5V powered by 12V supply.
😌

there's a gearbest mc3k video on youtube, very pointless . the person had no idea what to do with the charger hehe 😆

pretty much an unboxing vid🐰


----------



## kreisl

after seeing the gearbest video ... wth ... hello everyone, there is one production detail i would like to hear your opinion about. Please have a close look at the four function buttons, can you tell the difference between left and right pic?







The left shows textured (yet inkless) symbols on the buttons. I have such buttons on all my prototype samples and i love the 3-D texture. I'd also like white coloring, so i filled in white ink by myself. Super difficult to do. But that's the best one could get, recessed white symbols.
The right shows white (yet flat) symbols on the buttons and it's confirmed info, they had changed this little detail during the trial production without my awareness: the symbols are not 3-D anymore, gone is the texture. Apparently one cannot easily produce both features at the same time: white coloring plus 3-D texture. For the *mass production *one needs to decide, *either or*: either black textured symbol buttons, or white untextured symbol buttons. And if i had to choose, I'd prefer black textured.

Do you mind this detail, don't you mind, and what would be your preference? 

If most of you guys don't care much, then i'll let go of the topic and won't bother them about it anymore.


----------



## Ferdinando

if the textures will not fly away upon use
I prefere them. better visibility.
Otherwise no, of course.


----------



## kreisl

Ferdinando said:


> if the textures will not fly away upon use



I don't understand your vote. Do you mean the white ink (right pic) ? Ink is ink, ink has no texture. The ink will not fly away upon use (but we'll know for sure only after 10yrs).
The left pic has deeply "engraved" symbols. They cannot ever fly away even upon heavy use. But they are black, they are difficult to see.


----------



## Ferdinando

sorry, I've used the word texture improperly.
I meant I prefere keys with white ink only if this white ink is durable over time.


----------



## kreisl

Wow, you really prefer white ink? Okok, noted. Thanks for your opinion/vote, appreciated. Then so far it is

1 : 1


----------



## tatasal

Buttons with recessed symbols with white ink is my choice.


----------



## HKJ

Most computer keyboards today are made with white ink and it usual last a long time.
If the ink on the charger is just as robust it will clearly be the best solution.


----------



## Ferdinando

sticky labels to be placed optionally into engraved (textured) buttons ?


----------



## kreisl

tatasal said:


> Buttons with recessed symbols with white ink is my choice.


tata, either or. i prefer recessed symbols, also because one could fill in ink (white, yellow, whatever) by oneself. it's very challenging though hh. HKJ's vote has been counted, thanks! 
Sticky labels impossible .. the recessed ENTER symbol is too fine/thin.

recessed vs white
1 : 3


----------



## tatasal

kreisl said:


> i prefer recessed, also because one could fill in ink (white, yellow, whatever) by oneself.



Good point !


----------



## _UPz

I like best the recessed buttons filled with ink, but if one has to chose, I prefer the black inkless recessed buttons.


----------



## Curetia

I prefer the black texture filled with white ink (on keyboards I prefer PBT DyeSub keycaps or PBT doubleshot keycaps). 
If I have to choose between texture and white ink I would prefer the texture because it would wipe away in 10 or more years of use.


----------



## HKJ

Curetia said:


> If I have to choose between texture and white ink I would prefer the texture because it would wipe away in 10 or more years of use.



Not if done correctly, my computer keyboards last years before the white marking is worn off, a charger would probably last more than 100 times as long.


----------



## Viking

I clearly prefer white ink. It is easy to see and if done properly, it will last.
I have a 30+ year old calculator with inked buttons. The ink is still there.. all of it. Same was the case for my former 8 year old pc keyboard, and many remote controls.
The black 3-D texture however is very hard to see it seems, right from the start.


----------



## dssguy1

White ink.


----------



## dts71

White ink for visibility. 

(3D texture with backlight would be the best though - guess thats not on the possible list either)


----------



## Lynx_Arc

I want glow in the dark ink myself.


----------



## KeepingItLight

White ink.


----------



## Phlogiston

Speaking as someone who is legally blind, but still has some residual eyesight, I prefer the white ink for maximum contrast. 

You can certainly advocate textured buttons for blind people, but I would point out that tactile recognition is easier with raised textures, not recessed ones, because your skin will pick up raised shapes more easily, especially when the shapes are small. 

For relatively few buttons arranged in a row like this, blind people with no residual eyesight would usually count buttons from one end. 

Of course, the ideal arrangement would be raised textures painted with white ink, but SkyRC have already pointed out the difficulty of reliably mass-producing that sort of combination.


----------



## kreisl

gf has nail polish in all colors maybe even GITD to fill in the recesses, no? :shrug:


----------



## dssguy1

Really could care less on this VERY minute detail. Rather have them make really sure this thing works instead of caring about recessed or white ink buttons!
Just my opinion. I already pre-ordered at so I get what I get I guess.


----------



## psychbeat

Ink. 
Recessed would be cool with ink but is harder to see without.


----------



## braddy

White ink.


----------



## roadwarrior

White ink or even silver would work.


----------



## flashflood

White ink.


----------



## kreisl

Thank you all for the vivid participation, the tally gives, recessed vs. white ink,

3 : 12

So I checked the "white ink" on the buttons of my *old NC2500* charger. With a q-tip and some aggressive solvent i managed to dissolve the white paint yikes. Showing this to them, the product manager responded that the *MC3000 *buttons don't use white ink/paint technique but some *new *laser-engraving technique and that it would be impossible to dissolve the white symbols chemically. Laser-engraved white symbols are said to be long-lasting, won't rub off, won't fly away . In my review, I'm going to test the aggressive solvent on the MC3000 buttons, then we have re-confirmation by me.

Anyway you guys win, they're going ahead with the white symbols.

"Good news, everyone!" — Mass production has started!! Days ago actually. I saw proof, a sea of soldered PCB's




. Completion will still take days/weeks but the point is that production is happening right now. Fi. nal. ly.


----------



## dts71

kreisl said:


> "Good news, everyone!" — Mass production has started!! Days ago actually. I saw proof, a sea of soldered PCB's :kiss:. Completion will still take days/weeks but the point is that production is happening right now. Fi. nal. ly.
> 
> :twothumbs



What he said - Finally!!


----------



## Julian Holtz

*laser engraving*

Actually, the laser engraving technique is quite old, and state of the art in keyboard manufacture for a long time. Think of all the different layouts of the same keyboards for different countries and all. There are special plastic materials which change their color upon laser impact. Way more durable than ink, as it is the plastic itself changing color. Have a vid:



So what do you guys think, is a $30 price reduction reason enough to preorder the charger over waiting until the reviews are out?


----------



## gyzmo2002

Not for now. This charger has an application (mc3000) that has not been fixed for iPhone and probably for android too. It doesn't open. When you release something, everything should be working.

I will wait the review and hope that the appli will be fixed.

Edit: I have just found another appli for SkyRc charger (charger link). This one seems working. Wich one will be use?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: laser engraving*



Julian Holtz said:


> is a $30 price reduction reason enough to preorder the charger over waiting


Those who are really willing to pay full price solely under the condition that it got good reviews should wait then. Full price is a lotta money. I will be curious about what reviewers can find out which SKY was not aware of already. _If _there are noteworthy quirks or bugs which i can reproduce and agree with, then i'll submit for firmware refinement.

Those who are not willing to pay full price even if it got good reviews could consider the buy now ('Now or Never'). It's safe to assume that shoppers will be hard pressed to find a similar price after the promotional period, unless they go over ebay Make An Offer or ask an obliging dealer for a personal discount via friendly email, a practice which has become very common in the past 1-2 years in our scene.

The current GB/HKE price is as low as it will ever get 

Programmers are working on improved app versions day in day out. I am more interested in PC Link software and manual operation. Much fun and satisfaction either way! :thumbsup:


----------



## Ferdinando

gyzmo2002 said:


> Not for now. This charger has an application (mc3000) that has not been fixed for iPhone and probably for android too. It doesn't open. When you release something, everything should be working.
> 
> I will wait the review and hope that the appli will be fixed.
> 
> Edit: I have just found another appli for SkyRc charger (charger link). This one seems working. Wich one will be use?



charger-link app is for programming hobby-Chargers (B6-mini, B6-ac, etc)
with wi-fi module


----------



## gyzmo2002

Thank you Ferdinando. Hope the mc3000 appli will be fix soon. This charger is in my GB cart... hesitated...🤔


----------



## Ferdinando

there are 3 apps for chargers (other than mc3000)
and 2 for ESC programming, and all works good
on my iPhone.
so I think they will fix for sure.


----------



## flashflood

dts71 said:


> What he said - Finally!!



Did kreisl actually say that? I don't see that in any previous post of his.


----------



## B-2Admirer

When I try to "ADD TO BAG" the charger WITH an accessory on www.hkequipment.net I end up with ONLY the accessory in the shopping cart. I can only add the charger by itself, if I select "-" in the "Accessories" dropdown list. Whose fault is that?


----------



## Julian Holtz

*low input voltage threshold*

I want to propose a function I know and like at the iCharger line. Here, you can program a "smart low input voltage protection". This means, that one can program in a specific input voltage level threshold. Once this low level is reached, the charger does not shut down with an error message, but it reduces the charge power automatically in order not to overstrain the power supply. This is especially useful when the charge power has the potential to demand more power than the power supply can provide.
Say, one has a power supply 12V/2A. One would then program the low voltage threshold at 11.5V. Most power supplys lower the output voltage when they are almost overloaded, and do not shut dowm immediately. So, when the charger senses that the input voltage has fallen to 11.5V, it lowers it's power until it is just right. It's a feedback loop designed to draw the most power from any power supply without overloading it. It works wonderful, and I would love to see this feature on the MC3000 as well.


----------



## Batch

And the price of the AA battery is 18.99 instead of 8.99$


----------



## B-2Admirer

Batch said:


> And the price of the AA battery is 18.99 instead of 8.99$


Because the $8.99 price is stated with a discount, which only applies when you buy the set together with the charger and due to a glitch of some kind it's impossible.


----------



## kreisl

The below recent pic taken with my 2014 PC Link software and 2014 prototype versions gives you an idea of what the proprietary PC Link software looks like in original resolution. My beloved HD view (720p) won't cut it, one needs to switch to Full HD (1080p). What is happening there is rather self-explanatory but let me walk you through it since it's the first time you're seeing such a screenshot and tbh the user manual doesn't talk too much about it. The new PC Link software version, compatible with 2015 retail hardware, will be posted on the website these days, so it makes sense to chat about it in this post.







4 batteries were in the charger, i started the slots at the same time via the Start/Stop-button of the software, and after 90mins i decided to take a screenshot while all 4 slots were still running their programs. With this old software version you don't really need to start all 4 slots at the same time, however it'd be the natural thing to do so.

During the graphing the scaling of both the horizontal X-axis ("busy" time until "finished") and vertical Y-axis (logged value) are adjusted automatically because the software tries to make reasonable use of the full height of the 4 space-limited mini windows. This dynamic ranging causes the Y-axis ticks to have unintelligible values (4.221 3.888 instead of 4.200 4.100) and different scales from slot to slot. As a workaround, one can approach any graph with the mouse cursor and the exact value at that point will be displayed.

The mini window display resolution is such that voltage is visibly graphed with 3 decimals (4.200V 4.199V …), current with 2 decimals (0.30A 0.29A …), temperature with 1 decimal (23.1°C 23.0°C …). Re current, iirc one gets the full resolution with 3 decimals when exporting the graphs to *.CSV-spreadsheet file (0.296A 0.295A …).

At any time one can check the tickboxes to display/undisplay the respective graphs.

Blue refers to momentary voltage as measured between the metal contacts. For a busy slot (=red SNB), the value represents the battery voltage under load. For a finished slot (=green SNB), it's the unloaded battery voltage, which very much equals the so-called battery offline voltage or resting voltage. The curve progression of voltage is usually the most characteristic most interesting graph of a battery or the charging/discharging process. It is also what you can see on the LCD display of the charger device, in Diagram Drawing View (DDV).

Green refers to momentary current thru the battery as measured by an individual current sensor in series. There are 4 slots, so there are 4 sensors. Often the graph is just a horizontal straight line, meaning constant current. If you set 3A charging, then it's maybe interesting to see how and how fast the current ramps up from 0.00A to 3.00A and then tries to maintain 3A constant current but more often than not the mc3k current graph is not very interesting to look at. It is more interesting to look at with other chargers which do not feature constant current technology. 

Orange refers to the calculated capacity based on the momentary current measurement. It's the same value as one would get by measuring capacity manually with a logging digital multimeter in series. For a single constant current charge transfer operation mode the graph isn't very interesting to look at, it's then just an inclined straight line. However, for a cycling operation mode (i.e. REFRESH, CYCLE, BREAK_IN) the capacity graph can be helpful to reveal certain aspects of the cycling process.

Red refers to the temperature as measured by the slot temperature sensors. There are 4 slots, so there are 4 sensors. If a slot sensor registers a temperature, then it could equal the battery temperature in that slot. But to be clear, a temperature sensor will pick up any heat reaching it; this could be heat from the room, neighboring slots, inside of the charger, whatever, too. The temperature graphs are the most unpredictable graphs because of the various physical phenomena happening simultaneously spatially in an extended 4-bay device ("3-D"). An external temperature sensor attached to the battery of a single channel hobby charger produces more predictable because of isolate readings ("1-D"). 

Slot1: LiIon charging at 1.00A , 18650 battery was fully discharged (~2.6V), charger ramps up from 0.00A to constant 0.15A until battery voltage reaches 3.2V under load, then steps up to constant 1.00A until battery voltage reaches 4.2V where the CV-phase starts. Current decreases then. Makes sense to me.

Slot2: LiIon charging at 0.30A , 18650 battery was fully discharged (~2.6V), charger ramps up from 0.00A to constant 0.15A until battery voltage reaches 3.2V under load, then steps up to constant 0.30A. At such a slow charging rate, after 90mins we're still deep in the CC-phase, far away from the 4.2V CV-phase. The displayed current on my 2014 prototype flickers between 0.30A and 0.29A. We'll see it is nice constant on the 2015 retail product.

Slot3: NiMH discharging at |-1.00A| , AA battery was fully charged (~1.5V). After 1.5h at 1A discharging the transferred charge is shown as 1500mAh. Makes sense to me.

Slot4: NiMH discharging at |-0.40A| , AAA battery was fully charged (~1.5V). After 1.5h at 0.4A discharging the transferred charge is shown as 600mAh. Makes sense to me.

In all 4 slots "the temperature" has been rising. Again, note that these temperatures do not necessarily represent the actual battery temperatures. In your mind, always picture them as "slot temperatures" and not as literal "battery temperatures" tia. In a single channel hobby charger the temperature reading would very much equal the battery temperature, in a powerful 4-bay charger it won't.

What is the real *utility *of this tiny program for Windows PC (WinXP, Win7, etc)?

Distilled answer: 1) Monitoring the four channels simultaneously at one single sight. 2) *.EXE-files are the only way to update the charger firmware. 3) Convenience of setting program settings.


Q. Well this looks plain. Will SKY or you update and release improved PC Link software version or soon?
A. Why me? I am not programmer. I am not SKY. I am free tester only. Like you and me.

Q. Oki my bad. And what about others? Can others program their own open-source software?
A. I guess. In fact SKY is sending a mc3k sample to one talented geman programmer to have a look at the implementation.

Q. Implementation in what? Which logging software are we talking about?
A. Haha. Comes time, will announce.


----------



## fnsooner

Man this is tempting. Do other RCSKY chargers do well? 

I don’t need another charger in a drawer for special situations. This would replace my Fenix ARE-C2 that sits out all the time. With all the battery chemistries that the MC3000 supports, I wonder if it has auto detect. I only use NiMH and Lithium-ion and would hate to have to program it every time I stick a battery in it to do basic charging.,

I am also trying to determine if the 3000 can charge four 26650s at the same time. I charge 10440s and AAAs and up to 26650 cells. My Fenix will not do C and D cells. On my ARE-C2, all I need to know is which end is positive and away I go.

I an not saying I wouldn’t buy the MC3000 unless all these criteria are met, but I would like to know these answers before buying.

I only have two chargers that I have used the last couple of years. My Fenix ARE-C2 and a Maha MH-C808C. If the MC3000 proves reliable and it can seamlessly replace my Fenix, this charger will be mine.


----------



## kreisl

fnsooner said:


> With all the battery chemistries that the MC3000 supports, I wonder if it has auto detect. I only use NiMH and Lithium-ion and would hate to have to program it every time I stick a battery in it to do basic charging.,
> 
> I am also trying to determine if the 3000 can charge four 26650s at the same time.


Hi,
yes it can charge four 26650's at the same time, e.g. at 4×3.00A charging rate ("12 amps"!!!). Here are some possible arrangements:

slot1/slot2/slot3/slot4
26650/26650/26650/26650
32650/26650/32650/26650
32650/26650/26650/32650

Same with C and D cells, since they have similar diameter to 26650 and 32650, see photos in an earlier post:

slot1/slot2/slot3/slot4
C/C/C/C
D/C/D/C
D/C/C/D

Yes, it also has auto detect. This particular UI mode is called Dummy Mode. It was an UI addition inspired by Fernando. :thumbsup:


----------



## fnsooner

Thanks kreisl, I love Dummy modes. I am hovering over the buy button.


----------



## fnsooner

Well, I tried to pre-order at HKE, and as others have alluded to, the glitches have made it impossible.


----------



## romteb

Pre-ordered one at Gearbest, not unlike playing the lottery


----------



## fnsooner

romteb said:


> Pre-ordered one at Gearbest, not unlike playing the lottery



LOL. True, that is why i will wait for HKE. I have had great luck with them over the years.


----------



## Anders

Here it is: 



Am I late, did you see this?


----------



## Viking

kreisl said:


> Green refers to momentary current thru the battery as measured by an individual current sensor in series. There are 4 slots, so there are 4 sensors. Often the graph is just a horizontal straight line, meaning constant current. If you set 3A charging, then it's maybe interesting to see how and how fast the current ramps up from 0.00A to 3.00A and then tries to maintain 3A constant current but more often than not the mc3k current graph is not very interesting to look at. It is more interesting to look at with other chargers, though.



Doesn't it charge/discharge with constant current all the time, and if not I'm sure there is some kind of an explanation. Can you enlighten me please


----------



## Curetia

fnsooner said:


> Well, I tried to pre-order at HKE, and as others have alluded to, the glitches have made it impossible.



I preordered at HKE and it worked all fine. But only if you choose the "Checkout with PayPal" button. If you choose "Proceed to checkout" you cant choose the payment method. If you choose "Checkout with PayPal" you later got the same page as clicking on "Proceed to checkout" but now the payment method PayPal as there


----------



## kreisl

Viking said:


> Doesn't it charge/discharge with constant current all the time, and if not I'm sure there is some kind of an explanation. Can you enlighten me please



In CV-phase the current decreases. Eventually it reaches termination current, e.g. 50mA.

Constant current means constant 3.0A all the time until program termination.

But this is not the way how to charge Lithium-Ion batteries.

For LiIon battery charging you have a constant current phase (CC-phase, 3.0A), followed by a decreasing current phase (CV-phase, 3.0A->50mA).

If the current is decreasing, it is not constant. It is decreasing.

This is correct method for fully charging LiIon batteries.


----------



## pfisto

Curetia said:


> I preordered at HKE and it worked all fine. But only if you choose the "Checkout with PayPal" button. If you choose "Proceed to checkout" you cant choose the payment method. If you choose "Checkout with PayPal" you later got the same page as clicking on "Proceed to checkout" but now the payment method PayPal as there


Can someone give me the link for HKE
Thanks


----------



## fnsooner

B-2Admirer said:


> When I try to "ADD TO BAG" the charger WITH an accessory on www.hkequipment.net I end up with ONLY the accessory in the shopping cart. I can only add the charger by itself, if I select "-" in the "Accessories" dropdown list. Whose fault is that?


I missed the part about "select "-" in the "Accessories" dropdown list".



Curetia said:


> I preordered at HKE and it worked all fine. But only if you choose the "Checkout with PayPal" button. If you choose "Proceed to checkout" you cant choose the payment method. If you choose "Checkout with PayPal" you later got the same page as clicking on "Proceed to checkout" but now the payment method PayPal as there


Dang you...I mean thank you. I am in.



pfisto said:


> Can someone give me the link for HKE
> Thanks



HKE


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> This is correct method for fully charging LiIon batteries.



CC-CV is but one of _many _suitable algorithms for charging Li-ion. More modern algorithms may employ more stages and may be (much) faster, among other advantages, e.g. see the Philips and Telsa algorithms mentioned in this thread.


----------



## dssguy1

Anybody notice the super creepy long pinky fingernail on the dude's left hand in the video. Fast forward to 8 seconds from the end and you can see it. 

That's a cocaine fingernail! 

GG GearBest, GG!


----------



## Viking

kreisl said:


> In CV-phase the current decreases. Eventually it reaches termination current, e.g. 50mA.
> 
> Constant current means constant 3.0A all the time until program termination.
> 
> But this is not the way how to charge Lithium-Ion batteries.
> 
> For LiIon battery charging you have a constant current phase (CC-phase, 3.0A), followed by a decreasing current phase (CV-phase, 3.0A->50mA).
> 
> If the current is decreasing, it is not constant. It is decreasing.
> 
> This is correct method for fully charging LiIon batteries.



Thank You kreisl


----------



## GMUGNIER

dssguy1 said:


> Anybody notice the super creepy long pinky fingernail on the dude's left hand in the video. Fast forward to 8 seconds from the end and you can see it.
> 
> *That's a cocaine fingernail!*
> 
> GG GearBest, GG!



Now why are we jumping to all sorts of powdery conclusions? It might be for Dinkle Berries..


----------



## billcushman

Kreisl, at 1A charge current is the MC3000 true 1A constant current, or does it use PWM to achieve 1A?


----------



## Curetia

Look a few pages back and you will see that the answer was already given... 
It is constant current


----------



## kreisl

billcushman said:


> Kreisl, at 1A charge current is the MC3000 true 1A constant current, or does it use PWM to achieve 1A?


on your Li500 the current is not a horizontal flat line (=constant current) but crazily fluctuating, call it "PWM" or "pulsating" i don't care how you call it: in that linked post (Excel graphs), not only the blue graph (=actual current, momentary value) but also the red graph (=virtual current, 10sec averaged) and the green graph (=virtual current, 60sec averaged) are far from being horizontal flat lines!

on the mc3k the current is a horizontal flat line (=constant current): in a similar post (Excel graphs), both the blue graph (=actual current, momentary value) and the red graph and the green graph would be horizontal flat lines, overlapping each other perfectly.

and that is called true constant current. as Curetia said, thanks.


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> and btw, on your Li500 the current is not a horizontal flat line (=constant current) but crazily fluctuating.



fyi: Some studies claim pulse charging is better in some ways. Thus the non-pulsed CC-CV algorithm used by the MC3000 is not necessarily better than the pulsed methods used by cheaper chargers. In fact there are claims that pulsed charging may be better for both performance and health - see below.

From Capacity fade studies of LithiumIon cells, by B. Popov et al.

Conclusions

• Pulse charging increases the discharge capacity of the cell.

• Pulse charging decreases the cell impedance by increasing the utilization of Li.

• Discharge capacities evaluated at different cycle numbers indicated that pulse charged batteries retain more capacity.

From The effects of pulse charging on cycling characteristics of commercial lithium-ion batteries by Jun Li et al.

The results show that pulse charging is helpful in eliminating concentration polarization, increasing the power transfer rate, and lowering charge time by removing the need for constant voltage charging in the conventional protocol ... pulse charging maintains the stability of the LiCoO2 cathode better than dc charging and inhibits the increase in the thickness of the passive film on the anode during cycling.


----------



## kreisl

For now i prefer beautiful graphs though as seen in textbooks, wikipedia and battery spec sheet PDF's :huh:


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> For now i prefer beautiful graphs though as seen in textbooks, wikipedia and battery spec sheet PDF's :huh:



Given the choice between simpler graphs vs. better capacity, health and cycle life, I suspect that most users would prefer the latter. It's ironic that the cheaper chargers may actually turn out to be much better than the so-called "dreamcharger" on these important matters. Back to the drawing board... (or drastic price reductions!)


----------



## kreisl

If there is a clear industrial trend towards other charging algorithms in future, it is no problem to support them in MC3000.

One can update firmware with 1 click of a mouse.


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> If there is a clear industrial trend towards other charging algorithms in future, it is no problem to support them in MC3000. One can update firmware with 1 click of a mouse.



Highly unlikely that such a radical change would be made available in a firmware upgrade (I have never seen such). Not to mention that SkyRC does not have a good track record on firmware upgrades.


----------



## kreisl

OIC


----------



## billcushman

Kreisl, Thanks for the information. I pre-ordered a MC3000 as soon as it was available. I have not looked at the Lii-500 current using an Oscilloscope (Tektronix 465B) but have noticed slight variation beyond the first two digits when measuring current with a Fluke 289. I like the Lii-500 better than the Opus (which I avoided due to bugs and PWM). The HKJ Lii-500 test shows only slight current variation on most Li-Ion charging but the Opus shows huge pulsing. The MC3000 is in a totally different class from the other chargers. I was told my MC3000 will probably ship on Nov 24.


----------



## Gauss163

@billcushman Please read above. Pulsed charging need not be bad, and may be better.


----------



## _UPz

Gauss163 said:


> Highly unlikely that such a radical change would be made available in a firmware upgrade (I have never seen such).



Why? :thinking:


----------



## dssguy1

You would really be changing the way the charger works and not just adding a tiny feature or functionality. Most Firmware updates are for bugs, and tiny features. I wouldn't expect a major overhaul in how the product works through Firmware.

Don't get me wrong, I pre-ordered but I am mostly just assuming they can get this right since they have a huge line of very expensive chargers already released.


----------



## billcushman

Gauss163 said:


> @billcushman Please read above. Pulsed charging need not be bad, and may be better.



I have several NiMh chargers (for 24 volts batteries) that use pulse charging and it has advantages in that application. There is lots of discussion of the advantage and disadvantages of pulse charging on various sites, but I have found little information on pulse charging for Li-Ion. Most Li-Ion datasheets use true CC/CV charging for reported data. Tesla and some other use unique and specialized charging algorithms. My question was for information. I was sure Kreisl would have reliable information.


----------



## Gauss163

billcushman said:


> I have found little information on pulse charging for Li-Ion.



It is not difficult to find studies on pulse charging Li-ion. I already gave some citations above. Doing web searches on the obvious keywords will locate much more.

In any case, my point was not to recommend major changes to the MC3000. Rather, my point was simply to refute the outdated claims that pure CC-CV is the only suitable way to charge Li-ion.

PS You can find links to the algorithms of Tesla, Philips, etc. in this thread (though that is a bit tangential to the above).


----------



## magellan

Gauss163 said:


> It is not difficult to find studies on pulse charging Li-ion. I already gave some citations above. Doing web searches on the obvious keywords will locate much more.



Thanks, Gauss123, I will check those out.

This was very helpful:

Conclusions

• Pulse charging increases the discharge capacity of the cell.

• Pulse charging decreases the cell impedance by increasing the utilization of Li.

• Discharge capacities evaluated at different cycle numbers indicated that pulse charged batteries retain more capacity.

From The effects of pulse charging on cycling characteristics of commercial lithium-ion batteriesby Jun Li et al.

The results show that pulse charging is helpful in eliminating concentration polarization, increasing the power transfer rate, and lowering charge time by removing the need for constant voltage charging in the conventional protocol ... pulse charging maintains the stability of the LiCoO2 cathode better than dc charging and inhibits the increase in the thickness of the passive film on the anode during cycling.


----------



## Gauss163

In any case, I recommend that those interested in purchasing this charger do so not based on dubious claims of charge algorithm superiority but, instead, based on other advantages, e.g. the many features and extended programmability. 

Also recommended for those who get motion-sick observing rollercoaster-shaped current curves (common squirrel affliction).


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> Also recommended for those who get motion-sick observing rollercoaster-shaped current curves (common squirrel affliction).


Fair enough :thumbsup:


----------



## Gauss163

@kreisl Technicalities aside, thanks for your efforts in helping to bring to fruition a charger with so many useful features.


----------



## kreisl

Thanks man, appreciated. 

mc3k could be seen as scene release charger if you will. afaik CPF is mentioned somewhere in the printed manual  and the product would not have come to fruition without the input and inspiration from here. I was just the dude who approached the company 2.5yrs ago and asked what they thought about designing such a thing. They asked me back '_whose gonna buy?_' and i answered '_flashlight people?_' and then they said '_why, okay!_'


*WARNING:* The product is not all about drop dead seriousness and professionalism. Apart from its features and serious performance, it is meant to provide some fun and joy to our community. Perfectly suitable for people with _some _sense of humor. Shoppers totally void of humor better steer clear, squirrel alert!


----------



## MCX

[FONT=&#24494]The charging voltage is low enough on this charger to charge 10180 cells, but they are not shown on the list of batteries. Would I need a spacer to charge 10180 batteries?[/FONT]


----------



## Viking

kreisl said:


> I was just the dude who approached the company 2.5yrs ago and asked what they thought about designing such a thing. They asked me back '_whose gonna buy?_' and i answered '_flashlight people?_' and then they said '_why, okay!_'



Impressive.
I thank you for your effort for making this charger a reality.


----------



## billcushman

Kreisl, Thanks so very much for all your efforts making this happen and your detailed posts keeping us informed. Will a pdf of the User Manual be available before the units ship. It would be very helpful to study the manual before we get our units.


----------



## kreisl

MCX said:


> The charging voltage is low enough on this charger to charge 10180 cells, but they are not shown on the list of batteries. Would I need a spacer to charge 10180 batteries?


you mean charging _current_? yes it is low enough. in a previous post i demo'ed 10180 charging with a spacer; it works and i can definitely recommend the technique. mind you thru a charging harness attached to the spacer one could even _discharge _unsupported battery sizes like non-cylindrical *single *lipo/liion cells, smartphone batteries, and similar: a typical task for hobby chargers, but ever since i got hold of the MC3000 i don't look at my hobby chargers (icharger, imax b6, EBC-A, …) anymore, they were never fun to boot with. and as you know from my previous post, imo an essential part of the philosophy of having/operating a mc3k unit is: also having some fun and laughs while you're at it! 

re manual, i don't know what's happening with its finalization and all, they've been very secretive lately :huh:

Erh .. regarding the packaging contents, did i ever mention before that there is no USB cable included? You'd need to grab a USB cable from somewhere else. The specification for the required cable is:



> USB-to-USB cable, male to male:
> *USB A* (to plug into Windows PC)
> *Micro-USB B* (to plug into mc3k device)



That's the cable i found in my household. Made In China. Perfect match :hahaha:


----------



## ChibiM

Im wondering why kreisl has a conversation with himself through this entire thread?.. kreisl gauss163


----------



## kreisl

You can skip reading the Q. and A.'s


----------



## light-wolff

Gauss163 said:


> fyi: Some studies claim pulse charging is better in some ways. Thus the non-pulsed CC-CV algorithm used by the MC3000 is not necessarily better than the pulsed methods used by cheaper chargers. In fact there are claims that pulsed charging may be better for both performance and health - see below.
> 
> From Capacity fade studies of LithiumIon cells, by B. Popov et al.
> ...
> From The effects of pulse charging on cycling characteristics of commercial lithium-ion batteries by Jun Li et al.
> 
> ... pulse charging maintains the stability of the *LiCoO2* cathode better than dc charging and inhibits the increase in the thickness of the passive film on the anode during cycling.



These documents are very interesting, but unfortunately reflect 15 years old technology. Battery technology has advanced a lot since then. No modern cell has a LiCoO2 cathode any more.
Are there any documents that show similar effects for modern chemistries?


----------



## Viking

kreisl said:


> in a previous post i demo'ed 10180 charging with a spacer; it works and i can definitely recommend the technique. mind you thru a charging harness attached to the spacer one could even _discharge _unsupported battery sizes like non-cylindrical *single *lipo/liion cells, smartphone batteries, and similar



It could be interesting to check the capacity of my smartphone battery one day. 
MartinDWhite here on CPF makes all kind of adaptors, maybe he will make one that can fit a phone battery as well as MC3000. 
I think I will ask him if I end up bying this charger, as I most likely will 

I have a question. If I want to measure the capacity of an alkaline battery, can I do that in nimh discharge mode ( or any other mode ). 
Is nimh discharge mode constant current, and can I set the cut off voltage to 0.8 volt as is the industry standard for discharging alkaline cells ?


----------



## kreisl

Hi Viking, i have already tested the discharging of my phone battery with the MC3000. I used 1 spacer and a (modded) charging harness. Beautiful setup but i couldn't take a photo of it with my phone camera because my phone was ..erh.. without that battery :laughing:. I have an unused spare battery, so i'll share photos with the mc3k production unit then.

Yes you can measure capacity of Alkaline battery with NiMH Discharge operation mode. You can set the cut-off voltage to 0.80V. You can set constant current discharge (CC-phase), and optionally you could set constant voltage discharge (CV-phase at 0.8V) on top, called D.REDUCE. As you know, alkaline battery voltages recover fast after a fast discharge. The D.REDUCE option will squeeze out as much energy as possible, giving you some workable number for _maximum _stored capacity in the alkaline.


----------



## Viking

Hi Kreisl


Thank you very much for both answers. Good to know I can measure alkaline cells, and thanks for telling me how.


----------



## fnsooner

ChibiM said:


> Im wondering why kreisl has a conversation with himself through this entire thread?.. kreisl gauss163


:thinking:


----------



## Gauss163

fnsooner said:


> So, kreisl and gauss163 are one and the same.  Any other aliases?



Quite the bizarre guess. I have only one account here (and squirrels are definitely not my thing). 

Presumably the "conversation with himself" refers to those smaller-font conversations often appended to his posts.


----------



## fnsooner

Sorry I will edit my post. I am not sure what ChibiM was trying to say with his comment and invisible ink.


----------



## Gauss163

fnsooner said:


> Sorry I will edit my post. I am not sure what ChibiM was trying to say with his comment and invisible ink.



Ah, I missed the lightfaced text at first glance. That explains similar bizarre remarks ChibiM made on BLF. Given the many critiques I've posted above, guessing that I am kreisl is as nonsensical as guessing that I am HKJ. ChibiM is quite confused.


----------



## fnsooner

Gauss163 said:


> Ah, I missed the lightfaced text at first glance. That explains similar bizarre remarks ChibiM made on BLF. Given the many critiques I've posted above, guessing that I am kreisl is as nonsensical as guessing that I am HKJ. ChibiM is quite confused.



Again, I apologize. Seriously. 

Maybe kreisl's sordid past has got ChibiM looking for things that aren't there and I was too eager to join in.


----------



## kreisl

offense taken both ChibiM and fnsooner

shame on both of you for smearing for no reason

and now i suggest we stay on topic shall we

thanks


----------



## dssguy1

Im being told that HKE plans to ship on Nov 23rd. Hope that is true, I put in my pre-order a week or so ago.


----------



## LiteTheWay

May well be time to pre-order then. Wish I could see the manual though.




dssguy1 said:


> Im being told that HKE plans to ship on Nov 23rd. Hope that is true, I put in my pre-order a week or so ago.


----------



## roadwarrior

7histology said:


> Wish I could see the manual though.



+1 :santa:


----------



## kreisl

If the website can't post the PDF-manual online until late, then i wouldn't mind.
Early mc3k adopters will have then the privilege to be surprised by the printed one without spoilers :lolsign:

Folks get what they pay for:nana:


----------



## billcushman

Kreisl,

Is MC3000 production and testing proceeding without problems or unexpected delays? Does shipping to dealers appear to be on schedule? 

Thanks for all your efforts!


----------



## Gauss163

@kreisl One of the reasons I regret the removal of battery-powered (USB) output functionality is that it may have allowed the MC3000 to serve as a very capable mini-UPS - compare my post here on the Miller ML-102. In particular, it could be programmed to maintain the batteries on standby at less than 4.2V, so prolonging their life (a highly desirable yet rarely implemented feature - similar to "battery saver" feature in laptops).


----------



## AMD64Blondie

I want this so bad...

Any idea if Amazon (US) will ever get this charger/analyzer in stock?


----------



## DBrier

This is the charger I've always wanted.


----------



## romteb

Order it guys, that's a charger for years, not the Opus, xtar, Nitecore or Thrunite you'll keep upgrading from as they incrementaly correct their shortcomings and add the functions this one have in their newer models over the years , plus Skyrc open mindness and Kreisl effort are worthy of recognition.


----------



## psychbeat

I agree .... I'm gonna be broke for a while so no preorder but I'll def scoop one up ASAP.


----------



## monanza

I ordered the SkyRC the moment preorders came up but I had no idea this thread even existed let alone the history and effort that went into it. Thanks Kreisl for your good work.


----------



## flashflood

It's finally appeared on SkyRC's website!

http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20&product_id=219


----------



## Viking

Looks great. But I wonder what they mean by "Internal Accuracy" for D, 32600 and 32650 cells.
I also will like to know what the difference is between nimh and eneloop chemistry, maybe omitted tricle charge for the latter ?

There are so many things I like about this charger. 
Opportunity to test the robustness of batteries as a result of almost 100 cycles numbers.

High max capacity charge supports D cells.
low charge and discharge current down to 50 mA, and maybe even small selectable steps to choose from too, they don't mention that though. But I think Kreisl has stated that earlier.

Supports Lifepo4 etc.

I think this charger will be a success beyond their expectations. For those who want a hobby charger with integrated holders there are no other alternatives to look for. And I believe there are many who have always wanted this opportunity. I can't be the only one 

If I were to name some things I could miss in this charger, it is only two things.
The lack of possibility to take ordinary 9 volts cells. If that was included it would have supported all common household batteries. Not a big issue for me though.
But it would have been another reason for some to by this charger since very few analyzers have this opportunity ( I only know of Ansmann XC3000 ).

And second I don't think the software offer the opportunity to measure capacity in mWh ( milliwatt-hour ). That could be good to know for some cells I think.
But I fully understand there will always be something someone could wish for a little different. And it doesn't change the fact that I believe it will be an awesome charger, almost in a league of its own.


----------



## kreisl

Viking said:


> And second I don't think the software offer the opportunity to measure capacity in mWh ( milliwatt-hour ).


----------



## GMUGNIER

Is there anyway to toggle between units so that we can have degrees Fahrenheit instead of Celsius, etc..etc.. ??


----------



## kreisl

Yesyes.

That's pretty standard with hobby chargers.


----------



## SubLGT

flashflood said:


> It's finally appeared on SkyRC's website!
> 
> http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20&product_id=219



I find it surprising that SkyRC does not have even a single authorized distributor in all of North America!

I had to chuckle at their description "world's most joyful round battery charger" and "tailored to a sweet battery tray".


----------



## kreisl

SubLGT said:


> I find it surprising that SkyRC does not have even a single authorized distributor in all of North America!


Well, that is true. 

Sky produces OEM (and ODM) hobby chargers for several big US brands/distributors in that field, which excludes the need for a Sky-brand US distributor. So, since RC hobby people wouldn't pick up a RB charger, the company officials will exhibit this and another new RB charger on the forthcoming *CES 2016*, *Las Vegas* Nevada USA, in January. Their booth is already listed in the CES '16 directory under a partnering company name for household electronics. 

Maybe the Fenix USA distributor is interested in picking it up? :laughing:


----------



## N8N

So this thread has blown up and I don't really have the time to read the whole thing (sorry, I'm supposed to be working right now!)

Where, in the US, can one buy or pre-order this charger?

thanks!


----------



## kreisl

N8N said:


> Where, in the US, can one buy or pre-order this charger?



nowhere in the US by the end of this year

( you could ask your preferred local US dealer if he's going to stock it in 2016 and also going to offer it on amazonDOTcom marketplace )

(( 2 overseas vendors, HKE and GB who have been taking pre-orders, plan to ship out to international end consumers later this month ))


----------



## >PETE<

Viking - Could you not use an AA adapter to to 9V in order to charge 9V batteries? The chemistry will still be the same.


----------



## kreisl

>PETE< said:


> Could you not use an AA adapter to to 9V in order to charge 9V batteries? The chemistry will still be the same.



No, you cannot do this. *9V* battery is NOT supported, even if the 9V is internally made up by a *series* of NiMH cells (1.2V+1.2V+1.2V+… = 9V).

The MC3000 (and its programs) is specified for single cylindrical cell only, see the list of supported chemistries and sizes. If there are future battery chemistries and sizes, Sky will check if they can be added to the list after a firmware upgrade.

If you have a 9V battery, don't you ever try to charge (or discharge) it somehow with the MC3000, with or without adapter, doesn't matter. I hope this was clear enough.


----------



## clintb

N8N said:


> So this thread has blown up and I don't really have the time to read the whole thing (sorry, I'm supposed to be working right now!)
> 
> Where, in the US, can one buy or pre-order this charger?
> 
> thanks!


None in the US. hkequipment.net or gearbest.com are your pre-order choices.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Hey kreisl

When this charger ships and this thread - at least as an introduction/soliciting device for it has ended in one sense - it would be great to have the entire thread from beginning to (the then anyway) end in one (pdf?) file as a record of the history and user-inputs that have contributed to what promises to be a revolutionary charger. Now I could systematically copy and paste each page (so far 24) one by one in to Adobe and add them all together to make one document. But one downloadable file would be much better. Can we arrange that? - would it be worth it?

And of course it would also be a fascinating record of all your hard work.


----------



## LiteTheWay

I see the 5v OUTPUT on the RHS, but does it also have 5V (USB) INPUT powered by 12V (cigarette lighter style) as apparently stated in this quote below? If so, where? - LHS? (this side is not shown in any photo I have seen) Or have I misunderstood? 



kreisl said:


> only the power bank function (5V powered by batteries) was removed, but not 5V powered by 12V supply.
> 


----------



## Viking

kreisl said:


>


Fantastic!
This charger continue to impress me


----------



## kreisl

7histology said:


> Or have I misunderstood?



i guess so.
LHS has nothing. very boring. you can check the 360° model on sky webpage.
5V output is powered by 12V input. actually 11-18V input afaik.


----------



## Julian Holtz

>PETE< said:


> Viking - Could you not use an AA adapter to to 9V in order to charge 9V batteries? The chemistry will still be the same.



I have recently converted all my fire alarms' 9V batteries to 2s AAA battery holders with 10440 LiIons in them.

Apart from that, Kreisl, have you read this, and what's your opinion about it?



Julian Holtz said:


> I want to propose a function I know and like at the iCharger line. Here, you can program a "smart low input voltage protection". This means, that one can program in a specific input voltage level threshold. Once this low level is reached, the charger does not shut down with an error message, but it reduces the charge power automatically in order not to overstrain the power supply. This is especially useful when the charge power has the potential to demand more power than the power supply can provide.
> Say, one has a power supply 12V/2A. One would then program the low voltage threshold at 11.5V. Most power supplys lower the output voltage when they are almost overloaded, and do not shut dowm immediately. So, when the charger senses that the input voltage has fallen to 11.5V, it lowers it's power until it is just right. It's a feedback loop designed to draw the most power from any power supply without overloading it. It works wonderful, and I would love to see this feature on the MC3000 as well.


----------



## LiteTheWay

OK - when put that way 11-18V I get it. I was thinking that 12V meant that it could be charged by car charger.




kreisl said:


> i guess so.
> LHS has nothing. very boring. you can check the 360° model on sky webpage.
> 5V output is powered by 12V input. actually 11-18V input afaik.


----------



## kreisl

7histology said:


> OK - when put that way 11-18V I get it. I was thinking that 12V meant that it could be charged by car charger.


i haven't tested it, maybe it could be charged by car charger but it's too big and heavy for car charger anyway, not recommended😏


----------



## kreisl

Julian Holtz said:


> Apart from that, Kreisl, have you read this, and what's your opinion about it?


i have read it. let's postpone the discussion and get our hands, mine and yours!, on the charger first i'd say ��
thanks for your thoughts


----------



## Gauss163

7histology said:


> OK - when put that way 11-18V I get it. I was thinking that 12V meant that it could be charged by car charger.



Probably it would work. However, a car's 12V cigarette/accessory outlet is unregulated (can be 9-16V or higher - see below), so it would be safer to regulate it to appropriate constant voltage, e.g. via a laptop car adapter (< $10 on eBay). Often chargers don't handle well large/quick input voltage fluctuations, e.g. iChargers were fried when users fed them 24V from two 12V server PSUs in series, and one PSU shutdown.

Below is what Wikipedia says on the accessory voltage range:



Wikipedia said:


> A second problem is that nominally "Twelve-Volt" power in cars fluctuates widely. The actual voltage will be approximately 12.5 volts when dormant (less in cold conditions), approximately 14.5 volts when the engine and the alternator/generator are operating (more when cold), and may briefly drop as low as 5-6 volts during engine start.[7] When used, DC to DC converters will usually compensate for small fluctuations, but reliable power may not be available without an independent battery-powered uninterruptible power supply.
> 
> 
> Rarely, more extreme cases of voltage fluctuation can occur when the car battery is disconnected while the engine is running, or when the car receives a jump start. When the battery is disconnected while the engine is running, a load dump transient can produce very high voltages as the built in voltage regulator will try to charge a discharged/non present battery (disconnecting the battery while the engine is running may also ruin the diodes in the alternator). A car receiving a jump start from a truck may be subject to a 24 V electrical system used in some vehicles.[8] Also, a "double battery jump-start" is performed by some tow truck drivers in cold climates.[9]
> 
> 
> Equipment intended to be powered by the receptacle needs to account for intermittent contact, and voltages outside the nominal 12 V DC, such as maximum voltage 9-16 V continuously, or maximum voltage of 20 V lasting 1 hour, 24 V lasting 1 minute, and 40 V lasting 400 ms.[10] Protection component tolerance example ratings are +50 to -60 V DC.[11] Robust equipment must tolerate temperatures varying between −40 to +85 °C (−40 to 185 °F), plus possible high humidity and condensation of water.[10]


----------



## kreisl

:sweat:


----------



## SubLGT

When can we expect to see $45 clones of the MC3000 from the Chinese counterfeiting industry? I'm not interested in buying a counterfeit, just curious.

When I was shopping for a RC hobby charger a year ago, I noticed the SkyRC iMAX B6 was available in many counterfeit versions. If you wanted to buy a genuine iMAX B6, you had a challenge ahead of you.


----------



## Gauss163

SubLGT said:


> When I was shopping for a RC hobby charger a year ago, I noticed the SkyRC iMAX B6 was available in many counterfeit versions. If you wanted to buy a genuine iMAX B6, you had a challenge ahead of you.



The SkyRC and motley other Chinese B6 hobby chargers are all clones of the original B6 made by Bantam (a Korean company). Most of them all started with stolen firmware, etc. By now there are clones of clones of clones, etc, usually with lower quality components, e.g. lower tolerance resistors so less accuracy. Soon there will probably be self-evolving mutant chargers reproducing via 3D printers. Be prepared: hide your cells, don't feed the mutants...


----------



## roadwarrior

kreisl said:


> :sweat:



Not fair....


----------



## Paradroid

Been looking for a charger for a little while and this one seems to fit the bill so I've preordered one. didn't thien $89.99 was too bad compared to some others out there. now just have to wait for it to be delivered.


----------



## PapaLumen

Is this thing available yet?


----------



## kreisl

Available?

Some forum people (not me) have these days received *pre-production samples* from HKE and GB for the purpose of delivery of early test results. Feel free to ask around or in public, the ublichen verdachtigen if they are receiving or have received a sample from HKE or GB for testing and or review. I am looking forward to seeing all published tests, maybe i can use and discuss their results in my own review, i don't mind.

The final production version is currently still in production. I dunno but it may take another 2 weeks until they're ready for shipping out to HKE and GB. While the final production version is _not readily_ available, GB has an on-going pre-order promotion with reduced pricey until the end of this month, November. HKE's pre-order price is 6 bucks higher 

I'll test the *final production version*. I've tested enough pre-production samples in the past 2.5yrs :nana:


----------



## flashflood

@kreisl - what does that edit mean?


----------



## HKJ

It sound like he is saying the one I got for test (From Gearbest) will not be representative of the final version.





It does a very nice LiIon charge (The only one I have tested for now):




But the user interface can be discussed.

I have a lot more say about the charger, but I need to test for a few weeks more.


----------



## Ferdinando

:thumbsup:


----------



## ilgrank

HKJ said:


> I have a lot more say about the charger, but I need to test for a few weeks more.



While I understand that yours is a pre-production unit, it would prove VERY useful to have an indipendent review of it *BEFORE* I (and others) place an order.
I hope there isn't any major show-stopper there, but if there is one, Kreisl could tell us if it is a know one, if it has been fixed in production units and so on..

To make a long story short:
PLEASE HKJ: Share your toughts on the MC3000, I would greatly appreciate that


----------



## HKJ

ilgrank said:


> While I understand that yours is a pre-production unit, it would prove VERY useful to have an indipendent review of it *BEFORE* I (and others) place an order.
> I hope there isn't any major show-stopper there, but if there is one, Kreisl could tell us if it is a know one, if it has been fixed in production units and so on..
> 
> To make a long story short:
> PLEASE HKJ: Share your toughts on the MC3000, I would greatly appreciate that



My is opinion is based on my test, I cannot really say much before I have done a lot more testing.
The only thing I can say now is that if you believe the opus 3100 has a difficult/advanced user interface, this charger is probably not for you (Except in dummy mode), but I have not looked at the PC and phone interface yet, they may be much easier to use.

One curve more, sadly I forget the temperature probe and will have to redo it (Very good -dv/dt curve):





If everything continues to look as good as it does now I will probably replace my 6 most used chargers with two MC3000 (The only thing against that at the current time is the user interface). But it is premature to take that decision, I need to do some more tests.


----------



## hammerjoe

Hkj in that last graph of yours what does those long green lines mean?
And is that good or bad? What should we be looking for a good current line?


----------



## HKJ

hammerjoe said:


> Hkj in that last graph of yours what does those long green lines mean?
> And is that good or bad? What should we be looking for a good current line?



It means that the current is turned off when the charger measures the voltage on the batteries.
The good -dv/dt is because the red line hits a peak and then the charge is terminated when it starts to drop.
You can read much more about NiMH charging here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?410902-Battery-charging-NiMH


----------



## The_Driver

@HKJ: thank you for all your reviews over the years. So many interesting, well done tests for us and all of it for free! :thumbsup:
Could you maybe also test the charging at high currents? This is a special feature of the charger that 99% of cradle chargers don't have. It's also interesting to see how the charger behaves at maximum charging power. I would do four high-drain batteries at 3A each.


----------



## HKJ

The_Driver said:


> @HKJ: thank you for all your reviews over the years. So many interesting, well done tests for us and all of it for free! :thumbsup:
> Could maybe also test the charging at high currents? This is a special feature of the charger that 99% of cradle chargers don't have. It's also interesting to see how the charger behaves at maximum charging power. I would do four high-drain batteries at 3A each.



I have just started on the testing, I will do many more tests, including high current charging, but it takes time.


----------



## The_Driver

HKJ said:


> I have just started on the testing, I will do many more tests, including high current charging, but it takes time.



Good to know, thanks


----------



## Ferdinando

maybe I am wrong, but I don't aspect that this charger will be 'simple' to use.
by my point of view, it is more like to an hobby_charger than to a smart_charger


----------



## Butters4sure

Gauss163 said:


> The SkyRC and motley other Chinese B6 hobby chargers are all clones of the original B6 made by Bantam (a Korean company). Most of them all started with stolen firmware, etc. By now there are clones of clones of clones, etc, usually with lower quality components, e.g. lower tolerance resistors so less accuracy. Soon there will probably be self-evolving mutant chargers reproducing via 3D printers. Be prepared: hide your cells, don't feed the mutants...




Pretty creative! I got a chuckle for sure!


----------



## The_Driver

Ferdinando said:


> maybe I am wrong, but I don't aspect that this charger will be 'simple' to use.
> by my point of view, it is more like to an hobby_charger than to a smart_charger



I agree with you. I find it more important that the menus can be clicked through as fast as possible when one has momrized the menu structure. I don't like having to wait long between button presses.


----------



## HKJ

Ferdinando said:


> maybe I am wrong, but I don't aspect that this charger will be 'simple' to use.
> by my point of view, it is more like to an hobby_charger than to a smart_charger



That depends, the user interface has 3 modes. The simplest is "Dummy" where you just put a 4.2 volt LiIon or a NiMH battery in and adjust current.
If you really have to use it you have to fill in a specification on what to do (The charger has reasonable defaults). You can make 30 of these and save them.
The four slots do not need to run the same specification.


----------



## _UPz

Ferdinando said:


> maybe I am wrong, but I don't aspect that this charger will be 'simple' to use.
> by my point of view, it is more like to an hobby_charger than to a smart_charger



+1. Yep.

I guess nobody who has followed the long path this thread has done from the OP till today expects a "simple" device. For what I understand (by reading this thread and also by nose around the already downlodeable android APP) the device has a complet interface, with tons of functions and setup points, but at the same time one can save programs, so you only have to mess around the multiple choices once for each routine operation (ie. save a program for charging 10180 with adecuate parameters for this small cells).

Looking forward the review. :thumbsup:


----------



## HKJ

And about it being like a hobby charger: yes and *no* (Mostly no).It can do the same functions as a hobby charger including safety settings and some more, the user interface is nothing like a hobby charger and because it has four independent slots it is more like four hobby chargers.


----------



## Gauss163

SkyRC MC3000: 4x 1S1P chargers (nP by stacking)
Hobby (or RC): 1x mSnP charger (with balancing)


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> SkyRC MC3000: 4x 1S1P chargers (nP by stacking)



stacking or the use of round n*P*-adapters ("*p*arallel adapters") for Eneloops:
i have round *4P AAA* adapters (commercial, unmodded), for 4x 1S4P AAA.
and i'll show you guys my round *3P AA* adapters (commercial, modded) which are smaller than D-size adapters, for 4x 1S3P AA.


----------



## HKJ

Gauss163 said:


> SkyRC MC3000: 4x 1S1P chargers (nP by stacking)
> Hobby (or RC): 1x mSnP charger (with balancing)



Exactly, for loose cells the MC3000 can handle each cell separately with any operation at full speed and full information about that single cell.
With a single hobby charger you are much more limited.

I sometimes uses this 4xhobby charger:




But that is history with the MC3000

Hobby chargers are fine for battery packs, but for many loose round cells they are not that great. 

Note: Balancing only works for LiIon not with NiMH!


----------



## Ferdinando

yes.
the real/only differences that I see with hobby_chargers are that
- it cannot charge series pack (so it does not have balancer)
- it have a case with sliders for cilindrical cell


----------



## Bizill

With my pre-order I'll have a unit that I can now more readily "set it and forget it" when it comes to charging my 8 cell Fenix TK-75 4,000 lumen. As it is now I just balance charge 4 cells in series but I feel nervous even walking out of the room. I don't trust dummy chargers with low amp charging either. This MC3000 should serve me well. Still limited to 4 at a time, but this product really appeals to me greatly.


----------



## romteb

Is there on the MC3000 a mode where one drops a battery in a slot and it starts charging, or button pushing is always mandatory ?


----------



## HKJ

romteb said:


> Is there on the MC3000 a mode where one drops a battery in a slot and it starts charging, or button pushing is always mandatory ?



I do believe that a button press is mandatory.


----------



## tatasal

Even with the very simple Xtar VP2, unless you intend to use the 250ma charging rate, to choose the 1A charging rate, you need 2 presses of a button to charge almost all 18650s.


----------



## kreisl

it's not a so-called smart charger like Nitcore i4, that is true.

but how hard can it be to hit the 1 button labeled START


----------



## tatasal

kreisl said:


> but how hard can it be to hit the 1 button labeled START



How hard? Very!


----------



## billcushman

Kreisl, is production and delivery still on schedule? Is SkyRC satisfied with the number of pre-orders? THANKS!


----------



## tatasal

Gearbest's website lists 334 pre-orders at this moment.


----------



## fnsooner

How noisy is the cooling fan?


----------



## fnsooner

kreisl said:


> it's not a so-called smart charger like Nitcore i4, that is true.
> 
> but how hard can it be to hit the 1 button labeled START



The dummy mode litmus test will be graded by if I can charge two AAA Eneloops and one 18650 without my reading glasses. If all I need to know is where the start switch is to do basic charging, I will be happy.


----------



## billcushman

Is the DC power plug a standard 5.5mm/2.1mm size?


----------



## kreisl

billcushman said:


> Kreisl, is production and delivery still on schedule? Is SkyRC satisfied with the number of pre-orders? THANKS!


production and delivery are not on schedule, there is one delay in the final stage of assembly, and they don't even have the retail cardboard boxes printed yet. interestingly sky top tiers are afaik not keen on mc3k sales numbers knowing that it is too expensive to become anywhere near a best-seller in their program, they have other fish to fry. to them it's not a vehicle to generate profit but really merely a side project to bring some sky to non rc hobby people. seriously, cost and money-making had never been a design factor or concern. the aim was simply to make it "the most joyful charger" in the round battery scene.


----------



## fnsooner

As much as I am looking forward to getting this charger, I am good with them getting it right. My money is down, I can be patient. Keeping us updated is all I am asking of Skyrc.


----------



## ptolemy

I have this unit for a week now but have not had a chance to use it. Finally tonight, I tried to use it but I could definitely use a manual. 

Mine wasn't retail box, of course, but right now, I am not even sure how to run through options. Menu seems not very intuitive...

here is a pic from today. This is a first time use situation. I have to spend time with it


----------



## LiteTheWay

Why are 15270(RCR2) cells not listed as usable in this charger? Just an oversight I guess?


----------



## LiteTheWay

Is the 'standard' not 5.5mm external diam x 2.5mm internal diam (ie., internal 2.5 not 2.1)?



billcushman said:


> Is the DC power plug a standard 5.5mm/2.1mm size?


----------



## HKJ

7histology said:


> Why are 15270(RCR2) cells not listed as usable in this charger? Just an oversight I guess?



There are many LiIon sizes, you nearly need a separate manual to list all of them. With 15270 you might need a spacer (I have not measured the length yet), but it will have no problem charging them.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Yes, I am sure it can charge them. Interesting nonetheless that they don't list such a relatively common cell as being usable in this charger. The shortest they list is XX340 which is some 70mm longer than a CR2/15270 - so maybe they only list cells than can be charged without a spacer.



HKJ said:


> There are many LiIon sizes, you nearly need a separate manual to list all of them. With 15270 you might need a spacer (I have not measured the length yet), but it will have no problem charging them.


----------



## billcushman

7histology said:


> Is the 'standard' not 5.5mm external diam x 2.5mm internal diam (ie., internal 2.5 not 2.1)?



My two Maha C9000s and LiitoKala Lii-500 use 5.5mm/2.1mm concoctors. Many other devices also use this size, but others use different sizes. Many LED string lights also use 5.5mm/2.1mm concoctors. Perhaps I should have left out the word standard. In any case my question is: Does the MC3000 use a 5.5mm/2.1mm DC Power Connector? If not, what size does it use.


----------



## HKJ

billcushman said:


> Does the MC3000 use a 5.5mm/2.1mm DC Power Connector? If not, what size does it use.



5.5mm/2.5mm Barrel connector


----------



## dssguy1

5.5mm x 2.1mm is the standard I have seen most. Many male plugs will accommodate the 2.5mm size as well because the internal pin hole connection is spring loaded. It will be a tighter connection but it will still work.


----------



## kreisl

7histology said:


> The shortest they list is XX340 which is some 70mm longer than a CR2/15270 - so maybe they only list cells than can be charged without a spacer.



Is it 70 or 7mm ? :thinking:


----------



## LiteTheWay

Indeed yes - 7mm ( not 70)



kreisl said:


> Yes. Whoever  was responsible for making up that list must have thought so. It is imo common and fair practice to list only the sizes which can be charged _without _third-party accessories, like the vely nice FT spacers.



And also yes - I forgot kreisl that you already tested shorter cells than those listed - this thread is now so long!

Anyway, one MC3000 now ordered from hke.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Excellent. 5.5/2.5 does seem more 'standard' to the extent that anything much is in this area.



HKJ said:


> 5.5mm/2.5mm Barrel connector



Even though


billcushman said:


> My two Maha C9000s and LiitoKala Lii-500 use 5.5mm/2.1mm concoctors. Many other devices also use this size, but others use different sizes. Many LED string lights also use 5.5mm/2.1mm concoctors. Perhaps I should have left out the word standard. In any case my question is: Does the MC3000 use a 5.5mm/2.1mm DC Power Connector? If not, what size does it use.



I find my Maha C9000 works quite well with 5.5/2.5 connectors. I guess while a 2.1mm pin may work with a 2.5mm plug (ie., larger hole than pin), the other way round may be less likely to work?


----------



## billcushman

HKJ said:


> 5.5mm/2.5mm Barrel connector



Thanks for the information. I needed to order some male and female connectors to make adapters to easily measure input voltage, current, and ripple provided to the MC3000 from the Power Supply. The ones I have are 5.5mm/2.1mm size.


----------



## vk4akp

Hi Guys, I'd like to pre-order one of these. It's exactly what I want for Li-Ion cells.  
I'm in Australia. Where would you suggest I order for best price / fastest shipping / safest store / etc?
Also what is the pre-order cut off date?
And when are they likely to start shipping?
.-.-.


----------



## billcushman

vk4akp said:


> Hi Guys, I'd like to pre-order one of these. It's exactly what I want for Li-Ion cells.
> I'm in Australia. Where would you suggest I order for best price / fastest shipping / safest store / etc?
> Also what is the pre-order cut off date?
> And when are they likely to start shipping?
> .-.-.



Check your Private Messages.


----------



## billcushman

I just received the following message from HKE after they contacted SkyRC for the latest update.
"SkyRC will deliver stock to us this week. We will ship stock once arrive. Thanks"

This is great news. The wait is finally over! Thanks Kreisl for making this happen.


----------



## morcegolas

I'm also looking for pre order this unit. Shipping to Portugal.

Thanks


----------



## LiteTheWay

This is indeed great news - much thanks to kreisl.



billcushman said:


> I just received the following message from HKE after they contacted SkyRC for the latest update.
> "SkyRC will deliver stock to us this week. We will ship stock once arrive. Thanks"
> 
> This is great news. The wait is finally over! Thanks Kreisl for making this happen.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Kreisl, with shipping apparently soon, can we get a pdf of the Manual do you think?


----------



## ilgrank

billcushman said:


> Check your Private Messages.



Ehm.. afaik, onky GB and HKE are taking pre-orders, and I have personally tried a dozen coupons on GB and they will only make the price higher, not lower.. so if anyone has hints on how to save a few bucks, it is very welcome


----------



## kreisl

billcushman said:


> I just received the following message from HKE after they contacted SkyRC for the latest update.
> "SkyRC will deliver stock to us this week. We will ship stock once arrive. Thanks"


hmmm :thinking:

I cannot confirm the above, sorry. As of today there is still one delay during the final stage of assembly  and the cardboard boxes have yet to be printed, delivered and approved. 

Afaik

( sorry no word on the download manual )


----------



## virus_59

Manual - http://pf.kh.ua/other/SkyRC_MC3000_manual.pdf


----------



## kreisl

leaked. unapproved. don't download :sick2:

don't spoil your reading experience


----------



## LiteTheWay

Looks pretty real to me. Be interesting if nothing else to see how different it is from the unleaked, approved version.



kreisl said:


> leaked. unapproved. don't download :sick2:
> 
> don't spoil your reading experience


----------



## Gauss163

Worth noting: SkyRC requires all overseas warranty claims be made through the dealer, see below from the last manual page.



SkyRC MC3000 Manual" said:


> If you need warranty service overseas, please contact your dealer in the first instance, who is responsible for processing guarantee claims overseas. Due to high shipping cost, complicated custom clearance procedures to send back to China. Please understand SKYRC can't provide warranty service to overseas end user directly


----------



## diablo266

virus_59 said:


> Manual - http://pf.kh.ua/other/SkyRC_MC3000_manual.pdf



Thank you for posting this, reading through it has been very helpful.


----------



## fnsooner

Gauss163 said:


> Worth noting: SkyRC requires all overseas warranty claims be made through the dealer.


This is one reason why, even though I have preordered, have my money already spent and can’t wait to get the MC3000, I am good with them taking the time to get it right. I haven’t preordered anything in forever and think this is a calculated one hundred dollar roll of the dice. 

I have never had to send anything back to China from the US and am not sure what it would cost.

If there is some sort of inherent problem with this charger, the response on this forum is going to be epic. 

This thing is overkill for my needs but I want it anyways. Fun times.


----------



## billcushman

virus_59 said:


> Manual - http://pf.kh.ua/other/SkyRC_MC3000_manual.pdf



Kreisl, would you see if you can get SkyRC to make a pdf of the manual that allows printing of single pages, not two pages at a time. I will be 80 on Dec 13 and printing the pages letter size is very important for old eyes and small print. Thanks again for making the MC3000 happen.


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Improvement for the manual*

Hi.

My improvement suggestion for the manual would be to not sequence the screen explanation images arbitarily, but orderly.

Now it is like this:

[1]→[2]
..........↓
[4]←[3]
 .↓
[5]→[6]
 ..........↓
[8]←[7]

Better it would be like this:

[1]→[2]
._____|
↓
[3]→[4]
._____|
↓
[5]→[6]
._____|
↓
[7]→[8]

As it is now, one always has to guess which is the next following step, it is not intuitive and one has to get used to SkyRc's system of serpentine line navigation. Sometimes the required button press is shown at the left side of the image, sometimes at the right side, sometimes below.


----------



## steakeatr

*Re: Improvement for the manual*

Guys, the pre-sale price is quite tempting to me. Are people looking forward to this? How's SkyRCs track record been beforehand with their chargers? 

Any large criticisms or downsides I may have overlooked? 

Sorry for the newb questions, I've only just begun really getting into battery chemistry and electronics/DIY.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: Improvement for the manual*



steakeatr said:


> Guys, the pre-sale price is quite tempting to me. Are people looking forward to this? How's SkyRCs track record been beforehand with their chargers?


 
Companies that desire to produce high quality products and superior customer relations are independently certified by ISO. The SkyRC Quality Management System is qualified to ISO 9001/2008.

ISO 9001/2008 specifies requirement for a quality management system when an organization 

a) needs to demonstrate its ability to consistently provide product that meet customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements and 

b) aims to enhance customer satisfaction through the effective application of the system, including processes for the continual improvement of the system and the assurance of conformity to customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements. 

All of the requirements of ISO 9001/2008 are generic and are intended to be applicable to any organization, regardless of its type or size, or the products and services it provides.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Improvement for the manual*



billcushman said:


> Companies that desire to produce high quality products and superior customer relations are independently certified by ISO.



The ISO certification do not guarantee quality, only uniformity in procedures.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: Improvement for the manual*



HKJ said:


> The ISO certification do not guarantee quality, only uniformity in procedures.



Certification assures that the company has written procedures to control design, manufacturing, testing, and customer service. That doesn't guarantee that every product will be great, but companies without a good quality management system cannot be certified, and often do not care about the quality of their products or services.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Improvement for the manual*



billcushman said:


> Certification assures that the company has written procedures to control design, manufacturing, testing, and customer service. That doesn't guarantee that every product will be great, but companies without a good quality management system cannot be certified, and often do not care about the quality of their products or services.



What prevents a test description like "Test passed if the device powers up once without explosion or flames".
There is no requirement for the written procedures to require high quality.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: Improvement for the manual*



HKJ said:


> What prevents a test description like "Test passed if the device powers up once without explosion or flames".
> There is no requirement for the written procedures to require high quality.



As a retired Quality Director who has experienced ISO 9000 inspection and certification, I found that the certification inspectors reviewed a representative sample of test procedures and attended several design reviews. I doubt if they would approve the test you describe.

On a different subject, have you discovered any interesting findings in your testing of the MC3000. Are you finding the acronyms in the manual less confusing than they initially appear?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Improvement for the manual*



billcushman said:


> As a retired Quality Director who has experienced ISO 9000 inspection and certification, I found that the certification inspectors reviewed a representative sample of test procedures and attended several design reviews. I doubt if they would approve the test you describe.



Maybe not, but manufacturers making cheap low quality product can get certified as well as manufactures that makes expensive high quality stuff. The certification is not by itself a high quality certification.



billcushman said:


> On a different subject, have you discovered any interesting findings in your testing of the MC3000. Are you finding the acronyms in the manual less confusing than they initially appear?



I have been running test, but not really been looking at the results yet. Until now I have only seen one case where I need to look at bit more, it can probably not be blamed on the charger, but only on my settings.

The acronyms are confusing, using the charger is much less confusing (Except I cannot remember all the program numbers).


----------



## kreisl

billcushman said:


> Do you have any update on when SkyRC will deliver to dealers?


Production has finally resumed but is going slow. Shipping to dealers is scheduled for Nov 30th afaik.


----------



## billcushman

kreisl said:


> I messaged the maker about your request and all i got in return from him as response was a standard smile smiley (  ).
> 
> Whatever that means.
> 
> Maybe i should try harder



Thanks, Kreisl.. I copied all the pages one by one and printed it full size.

Do you have any update on when SkyRC will deliver to dealers?


----------



## Gauss163

billcushman said:


> Kreisl, would you see if you can get SkyRC to make a pdf of the manual that allows printing of single pages, not two pages at a time. I will be 80 on Dec 13 and printing the pages letter size is very important for old eyes and small print. Thanks again for making the MC3000 happen.



There are no doubt many tools available for doing that - try a web search on the obvious keywords. For example, doing so leads to a Perl script solution, among others.


----------



## billcushman

Gauss163 said:


> There are no doubt many tools available for doing that - try a web search on the obvious keywords. For example, doing so leads to a Perl script solution, among others.



Gauss163, thanks for the information. I searched and found lots of information. Since I had already separated the document into 44 single pages, I also looked for a way to combine them into a single pdf. I wasn't successful, but did find a simple way to add the 44 pages to a message.


----------



## hey_tommy

billcushman said:


> Gauss163, thanks for the information. I searched and found lots of information. Since I had already separated the document into 44 single pages, I also looked for a way to combine them into a single pdf. I wasn't successful, but did find a simple way to add the 44 pages to a message.



Bill, I happen to be an Acrobat wiz, so this was 5 minutes of work for me - here you go, a fully paginated manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BymUiN711B2KOS1EUmtETkdLbGc

Once the fiinal, official manual is released (the PDF that was posted was pre-release), I'll make another one just like this one, with the final contents.


Tom


----------



## billcushman

hey_tommy said:


> Bill, I happen to be an Acrobat wiz, so this was 5 minutes of work for me - here you go, a fully paginated manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BymUiN711B2KOS1EUmtETkdLbGc
> 
> Once the fiinal, official manual is released (the PDF that was posted was pre-release), I'll make another one just like this one, with the final contents.
> 
> 
> Tom



THANKS! It works great. It is also much easier to view on my Mac. The pages appear full width and I can just scroll down to see the complete manual. Everyone that wants to read the manual should use this version. Be sure and use the icons at the top of the first page to print or download.


----------



## kreisl

packaging :kiss:​


----------



## chewy78

looks like a handy charger. Maybe ill order one of these too lol


----------



## roadwarrior

Manual shows some impressive options. I may have to put this on a future wish list for sure, but first I want to see what how reviews pan out.....


----------



## LiteTheWay

You keep tempting us kreisl - but I have ordered. HKJ's preliminary comments here and on BLF were sufficient to tip me over the edge even without full reviews.




kreisl said:


> packaging :kiss:​


----------



## kreisl

there is actually some awesome news coming up regarding the PC Link software

but i won't announce it the author will

… soon … 

:naughty:


----------



## Ferdinando

very nice. I hope they will fix also the iPhone app.
I use the app for NI2500, and it is very pratical.


----------



## fnsooner

Looks like some good news the last couple of days. Thanks for the updates kreisl.


We may actually get this thing in our grubby little flashahoic paws by Christmas. Woo Hoo!!


----------



## kreisl

News item. It's not _my _word but some recent word is out that the factory will *finish *production of only a limited number of units by Monday Nov 30th to begin shipping out to the 2 Eastern vendors HKE and GB, such that at least the (rather large number of) pre-orders can be fulfilled, *and be *out of stock again right after. Production turned out to be slow with long lead times, and it will take a while until a future batch will be available for immediate shipping, e.g. to overseas dealers.

Seems like a farce has been averted last minute but the situation does remind me of some other infamous pre-orders with massive delays and limited availability (Romisen UV pre-order 2015, SC52 pre-order 2012) 

MC3000 will never become a mass commodity but a rare item hard to source


----------



## fnsooner

kreisl said:


> News item. It's not _my _word but some recent word is out that the factory will finish production of only a limited number of units by Monday Nov 30th to begin shipping out to the 2 Eastern vendors, such that _*at least the (rather large number of)*_ *pre-orders can be fulfilled*, and be out of stock again right after.



If true, at least that is good news for the folks that preordered. The wait and seers may have to wait till spring.


----------



## fnsooner

I wonder if SkyRc is pleased with the pre-order numbers.


----------



## kreisl

today i got my 1s3p AA cylindrical adapters in, sub-D size, they work!! they got converted from commercial 3s1p AA holders. i'll probably be the only one to use round adapters but the dimensions/power of the device really inspire and invite such unofficial fun practice.

*12 AA or 16 AAA Eneloop* charging, it really works, i tested it before afayk! 🔋

stay tuned, i'll prepare various posts on the parallel Eneloop charging topic for demo purposes with photos and graphs.


----------



## tatasal

Nimh are always charged in series, or individually.

http://www.powerstream.com/NiMH.htm

I have tried parallel charging my nimh cells (D and AA) several times using parallel-connected holders in my iCharger and they always come out with very unbalanced voltages.


----------



## kreisl

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?287461-Eneloop-C-amp-D-Cells-Exposed


----------



## HKJ

kreisl said:


> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?287461-Eneloop-C-amp-D-Cells-Exposed



There is a very big difference between mating a couple of factory new cells together forever and taking a random selection of cells and putting together for a charge.


----------



## tatasal

fnsooner said:


> I wonder if SkyRc is pleased with the pre-order numbers.



Gearbest alone has at present 481 pre-orders, I wonder if SkyRC is happy with it so far.


----------



## kreisl

HKJ said:


> There is a very big difference between mating a couple of factory new cells together forever and taking a random selection of cells and putting together for a charge.


Very true. Hence for my tests i am using 6 unused Panasonic Tropical Eneloops (taken from 1 blister package, all 6 cells having the same production datecode) and 6 unused Fujitsu FDK Eneloops (all 6 cells having the same production datecode). I've been storing those nice AA's since i purchased them last winter.

Anyway I am also _not recommending_ this kind of practice: parallel Eneloop charging.

But it is instructive to learn how well it works, _if_ someone ever wanted to follow that path. Actually there is some advantage of using a parallel adapter: the cells per adapter will be automatically balanced. Multi-cell applications like Nietcore EA8 or EA81 flashlights require 8xAA batteries and all 8 batteries should be as identical as possible (brand, model, age, capacity, voltage) before inserting into the big flashlight. It'd make sense to exploit this technique then with 3 slots (3+3+2=8) or 4 slots (2+2+2+2=8). 

*1pc* Nitcore i4 would take ~*10h40min* (=2 subsequent runs* 2000mAh/375mA) to charge 8 AA's for the EA8.
*1pc* mc3k would take ~*2h* (=1 single run* 2000mAh/1000mA) to charge 8 AA's for the EA8.

Not an entirely fair comparison since for the price of mc3k one could buy *4pcs* i4 for a ~*2h40min* charging time (=1 simultaneous run* 2000mAh/750mA) yet mc3k would still win the race by 40mins


----------



## morcegolas

Ferdinando said:


> very nice. I hope they will fix also the iPhone app.
> I use the app for NI2500, and it is very pratical.



I think they're waiting to release the charger first and then update the app. I can't wait mine to arrive.


----------



## fnsooner

tatasal said:


> Gearbest alone has at present 481 pre-orders, I wonder if SkyRC is happy with it so far.



I would say that they are pleased but who knows for sure. I would also think that, conjecturing on the info that kreisl told us about a second delayed batch, that the pre-orderers are the beta testers of sorts. I don't mind though. That is the price for buying on the leading edge. I think it will be fun.


----------



## kreisl

fnsooner said:


> I would also think that, conjecturing on the info that kreisl told us about a second delayed batch, that the pre-orderers are the beta testers of sorts.


sorry you are wrong. the pre-orderers are not "beta testers". the beta-testing phase was in I/2015 and is long over. 
the pre-orderers will be owners of the final production version! 

sometimes we should leave the thinking to the horses.


----------



## fnsooner

I am wrong all the time. I am used to it.

If you aren't wrong about no more batches, that will be sad. I hope I get mine.


----------



## HKJ

kreisl said:


> I would also think that there won't be a second batch in future, MC3000 is to become a limited edition product in Sky's vast catalog of RC hobby products



You believe that they uses two years to develop a product and then they will not sell it? I doubt that.
If they stop selling the product, logic also says they will stop making software updates to it!


----------



## Ferdinando

+1
maybe the production costs are too high for the selling price ...
but I think SKY have done the appropriate marketing investigations prior to take decision on what they will have to do.


----------



## kreisl

Yeah that was wrong thinking, no doubt 

i didn't start it


----------



## fnsooner

HKJ said:


> If they stop selling the product, logic also says they will stop making software updates to it!



And stop taking pre-orders.


----------



## clintb

HKJ said:


> You believe that they uses two years to develop a product and then they will not sell it? I doubt that.
> If they stop selling the product, logic also says they will stop making software updates to it!


Two years of dev and I'd think the price would be a whole lot higher if it were truly a limited run.


----------



## kreisl

Maybe some readers didn't understand the point/joke of my post, it was a sarcastic response to the wrong thinking starter. Now i have edited it.

mc3k will undergo continued production, of course. i am just saying that production has been slow so far and that all produced units have been allotted to the 2 vendors already.

it will take a while until the factory has it back in stock for back-order


----------



## mms

kreisl said:


> Maybe some readers didn't understand the point/joke of my post, it was a sarcastic response to the wrong thinking starter. Now i have edited it.
> 
> mc3k will undergo continued production, of course. i am just saying that production has been slow so far and that all produced units have been allotted to the 2 vendors already.
> 
> it will take a while until the factory has it back in stock for back-order



Can you tell me who are these 2 vendors?


----------



## kreisl

Hello mms, welcome to CPF!

vendor 1: hkequipment.net (Hongkong located)
vendor 2: gearbest.com (SZX located)


----------



## mms

kreisl said:


> Hello mms, welcome to CPF!
> 
> vendor 1: hkequipment.net (Hongkong located)
> vendor 2: gearbest.com (SZX located)



Thanks for the fast reply :twothumbs I pre-ordered it from HKE, so it means I should get mine in the first batch


----------



## DBrier

I tried to pre-order from HKE, but there is an issue with their payment selection. You can't select any type of payment. 
From the reports I've seen here, HKE is the better vendor than GB.

I tried again using PayPal and it worked.


----------



## billcushman

HKJ, please give us some more teaser reports on performance of the MC3000. At least one simple report per week would be very nice. 

Your full review will probably take a while because the MC3000 has so many options. Thanks very much for all the hard work you put into your reviews. They are a valuable source of detailed and accurate information.


----------



## HKJ

billcushman said:


> HKJ, please give us some more teaser reports on performance of the MC3000. At least one simple report per week would be very nice.
> 
> Your full review will probably take a while because the MC3000 has so many options. Thanks very much for all the hard work you put into your reviews. They are a valuable source of detailed and accurate information.



Until now I have just been following a test plan and not really looked at the result. I usual works this way when testing a charger: run all the standard test i have, then look at the result, do supplemental tests, finally it goes on the bench and I do a couple of manual measurements.
This has given me more experience with the user interface and I can add a few comments about that:

I do still not like the numbers, when looking at the charger I just get four numbers for the slots, no information about what the slots will do.
If I want to see what is hidden behind a number it is just one keypress, then I can see the program, use up/down to change program number and enter to confirm program number.
To start the programs only a short press on enter is needed. I.e. if you put in a new batch of batteries and the shows program numbers are correct, just press enter to start.

When you change a program, like selecting another charge current, some other parameters in the program will also change, i.e. to get exactly what you want it is a good idea to check the full program, when you do a change (Selecting a program will not change it).

My guess is that I will need 6 LiIon charge program, 4 for 4.20 volt with different currents, one for 4.35 volt and one for 3.6 volt. I might need one more if the charger can charge at very low current, but there might be problems with termination (I will have to look a bit more on that).

During charging I have sometimes checked my voltmeter and the charger display and they always match within 1 digit when charging LiIon.


----------



## kreisl

HKJ said:


> During charging I have sometimes checked my voltmeter and the charger display and they always match within 1 digit when charging LiIon.


Is mc3k Factory Calibration active during your tests, or did you, prior to all your testings, recalibrate your mc3k unit to match your expensive equipment reference?

My sample is on the way to me and first thing i'll do is resetting the device to User Calibration, i.e. my Uni-T multimeter reference.

Once i see matching values, i'll be happy and go to bed, case closed.


----------



## HKJ

kreisl said:


> Is mc3k Factory Calibration active during your tests, or did you, prior to all your testings, recalibrate your mc3k to your equipment reference?



I use factory calibration, few people has something that is known good enough to do their own calibration.


----------



## kreisl

HKJ said:


> I use factory calibration,


oki 

null problemo, thx!


----------



## billcushman

HKJ said:


> This has given me more experience with the user interface and I can add a few comments about that:
> 
> I do still not like the numbers, when looking at the charger I just get four numbers for the slots, no information about what the slots will do.
> If I want to see what is hidden behind a number it is just one keypress, then I can see the program, use up/down to change program number and enter to confirm program number.
> To start the programs only a short press on enter is needed. I.e. if you put in a new batch of batteries and the shows program numbers are correct, just press enter to start.
> 
> When you change a program, like selecting another charge current, some other parameters in the program will also change, i.e. to get exactly what you want it is a good idea to check the full program, when you do a change (Selecting a program will not change it).
> 
> My guess is that I will need 6 LiIon charge program, 4 for 4.20 volt with different currents, one for 4.35 volt and one for 3.6 volt. I might need one more if the charger can charge at very low current, but there might be problems with termination (I will have to look a bit more on that).
> 
> During charging I have sometimes checked my voltmeter and the charger display and they always match within 1 digit when charging LiIon.



Thanks very much for this update. I have been studying the manual (expect MC3000 in a couple of weeks). Page 17 of the manual gives a good description of what it takes to see the details of the Program. I feel I will have to make a separate sheet listing the Program Number and what it does to make things easy. It's good to know about checking everything in the program if you make any changes.


----------



## clintb

Gear Best just processed payment for my pre-order.


----------



## fnsooner

Thanks HKJ, much appreciated.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Not seeing your graph. 

Bill


----------



## kreisl

My warmest welcome on CPF, Winne!

You have the most beautiful functional software there, thanks a million for your support.

Will it run on Apple computer too?


----------



## morcegolas

kreisl said:


> there is actually some awesome news coming up regarding the PC Link software
> 
> but i won't announce it the author will
> 
> … soon …
> 
> :naughty:



I am a Mac user, I know I can have a virtual machine in my Mac but I really do not need to use Windows, there's no chance of having a MacOS version? 

PS-> I'm not lucky as @clintb, GB still not processed my payment :/

Thanks.


----------



## billcushman

Winne said:


> This is now a view with all data in combination, the SkyRC MC3000 is designed to enable battery comparison and selection. I just took a screen shot of a partially discharging process have all 4 slots in use



Welcome to the forum. The pictures do not work for me. I am also a Mac user, although I just ordered a new PC for the rare occasions when it is required.

As a new member, you may have to get someone else to post the pictures for you.


----------



## billcushman

The latest information I received from HKE says that they will receive the MC3000s on Friday, this week.


----------



## kreisl

Yes the units were shipped today! After fulfilling the load of pre-orders, GB will still carry some stock but not much. I do expect that both vendors will run out of stock by the middle of this month.


----------



## morcegolas

kreisl said:


> Yes the units were shipped today! After fulfilling the load of pre-orders, GB will still carry some stock but not much. I do expect that both vendors will run out of stock by the middle of this month.



Do you now if the EU model were shipped also?
Thanks.


----------



## Swede74

Dear Mr Squirrel,

would you happen to have any inside information as to whether "nkon.nl" (or any other dealer in the EU) will be carrying this fine charger, once more units become available? 

Thank you for your time and commitment, and your patience with all our questions.


----------



## kreisl

Afaik the EU model was shipped to the 2 dealers too yes.

Nice photo Swede74. Yes sure enough, EU dealers like NKON will be carrying it, according to my information.

It's an easy guess that the product won't be available _again _for immediate shipping from the factory until several weeks after CNY holiday season. General availability should increase from that point on, especially in EU.


----------



## Swede74

kreisl said:


> Nice photo Swede74. Yes sure enough, EU dealers like NKON will be carrying it, according to my information.



Thank you. I have something to look forward to then.


----------



## DiverDn

I've skimmed through most of this thread and read the last 2.5 - 3 pages.

I'm a complete noob when it comes to charging Li-ion batteries.

Would this charger be simple enough for a beginner to learn the ropes on?

Or would there be an easier alternative?

Thanks


----------



## HKJ

DiverDn said:


> Would this charger be simple enough for a beginner to learn the ropes on?



In dummy mode anybody can use it, but it is a waste to use it in dummy mode.
In advanced mode it is a question about how you have it with technical stuff.



DiverDn said:


> Or would there be an easier alternative?



Something like the LitooKala is easier to use, but cannot do as much: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger LiitoKala Lii-500 UK.html

Or for a even more simple charger get an Xtar VC4: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar VC4 UK.html


----------



## DBrier

HKE charged my credit card already, I hope that's a good sign that they will be shipping soon.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Given what we have read above it probably is although they charged my card immediately after I placed the pre-order nearly two weeks ago.




DBrier said:


> HKE charged my credit card already, I hope that's a good sign that they will be shipping soon.


----------



## mms

DBrier said:


> HKE charged my credit card already, I hope that's a good sign that they will be shipping soon.


According to the website the pre-orders will be shipped on the 5th :
http://www.hkequipment.net/product-p/mc3000.htm


----------



## billcushman

It's Thursday in China. The wait is almost over.


----------



## tatasal

Gearbest has also received deliveries of their chargers yesterday and I expect shipping out notices in the coming days.


----------



## DiverDn

HKJ said:


> In dummy mode anybody can use it, but it is a waste to use it in dummy mode.
> In advanced mode it is a question about how you have it with technical stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> Something like the LitooKala is easier to use, but cannot do as much: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger LiitoKala Lii-500 UK.html
> 
> Or for a even more simple charger get an Xtar VC4: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar VC4 UK.html



Thank you for the information and the other links. I will take a look at them.

I will eventually get to a more advanced level. I generally tend to over buy anyway so this research will be good for me to go through.

Thanks again,
John


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> Yesyes, the min _nominal _charging current is 50mA (CC) and in Advanced UI menu mode one can adjust it in 10mA increments. Lower charging (< 50mA) is possible with a dirty trick as suggested in the user manual .


*kreisl*, is it possible to set the charging current low enough to safely charge LIR2032 and LIR2025 cells with that dirty trick? And what about the discharge current (to measure actual capacity)?


----------



## LessDark

Is this the only charger that can charge 4x26650 at 2A at the same time?


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> is it possible to set the charging current low enough to safely charge LIR2032 and LIR2025 cells with that dirty trick? And what about the discharge current (to measure actual capacity)?


Here is a datasheet, it quotes 35mA max current:
http://www.powerstream.com/p/Lir2032.pdf

I checked the manual. The dirty trick is basically nothing but setting the termination current to the lowest parameter possible, TERMINATION: Zero. With a fully discharged coin cell the charger would still start with 0.05A, which is higher than the 35mA coin cell spec. For the sake of experimentation and out of curiosity, i would try this charge test if i had such a coin cell. Or better, i would call the engineers at that battery manufacturing site and ask about my experiment.

The point is, _if _there were _actual _need to have lower minimum starting currents than |0.05A| and |-0.05A|, then one would have to make a strong convincing case. Of course it'd be, in theory, possible to alter the firmware code in order to lower these 2 minimum values. The MC3000 has high enough accuracy and resolution to control currents smaller than 50mA but .. let's leave it like that. Sky's arbitrary choice of the 0.05A limit looks good on paper and rings well in the ears.

For discharging, similar trick and thoughts apply. It should be possible to fully discharge this coin cell to determine its maximum capacity. Safely.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

GB already charged my paypal and sending the charger Monday  Can't wait to test it.
Kreisl no news on iOS app update eta?

Thanks!


----------



## Yanix

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Gearbest representative give this info on one russian forum:

Stock left: 
EU version (less than 32 pieces left after shipping the exsiting orders)
US version (less than 18 pieces left after shipping the existing orders)
UK version (less than 16 pieces left after shipping the existing orders)
AU version (less than 5 pieces left after shipping the existing orders)


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

GB shipped out mine.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> GB shipped out mine.



Received my shipping confirmation from gearbest. No fee for The "expedited". Let's see how much time it will take.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It's possible with this charger to know if Ni-MH batteries are in 'good shape' or if it's time to throw them to garbage?
Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> It's possible with this charger to know if Ni-MH batteries are in 'good shape' or if it's time to throw them to garbage?


Let me comment indirectly. You'll get characteristic data like discharge graph, max. discharge capacity, and battery internal resistance (IR). If you have reference data from the time when the batteries were new, then *you *can compare and decide for yourself if it's time to throw them.

I don't like it when the charger tells me "HI6H" and refuses to process my battery. My MH-C9000 unit for example issues "HI6H" warning for some of my Eneloops :shakehead but i can still charge and use these Eneloop specimen in my applications.

High battery IR is a typical characteristic of aged, abused, or bad shape, bad condition battery. You could probably find rough rules of thumb re IR and recommendations of EOL in a wise encyclopedia of battery technology. But telling you or recommending you when to throw out a battery is nothing but a guideline, usually to keep you reasonably satisfied with the battery performance in the identical application, say a high-performance power led flashlight.

Actually the manual lists an error *message *which refers to your case.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have working tracking numbers on my units. They will be delivered by USPS (USA Speedpost from HK). The tracking information shows processing for shipment to US on both the HK POST and USPS sites.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> It's possible with this charger to know if Ni-MH batteries are in 'good shape' or if it's time to throw them to garbage?
> Thanks.



You usual do that with a discharge test, using the current that you are planning to use the battery with (This current do not need to be accurate). Then you can see how much capacity it has left and decide if you want to keep it or throw it out.

The MC3000 is very good for this because you can set the end voltage, i.e. if you know the equipment need 1.1 volt, you tell the charger to stop at 1.1 volt and get exactly how much capacity is left for that purpose.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This will be really handy for my laptop pulls. I can figure out how much capacity the 18650's have when drained to 2.7v and see if they are worth keeping.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> I have working tracking numbers on my units. They will be delivered by USPS (USA Speedpost from HK). The tracking information shows processing for shipment to US on both the HK POST and USPS sites.


 Thanks for posting that. It prompted me to check the status of my order on their (hkequipment) website and I also found that mine has been shipped with a tracking number provided, even though they never notified me by email. They shipped it right in time for it get to Belarus in the middle of the New Year frenzy at the customs/sorting and be delayed for a week or two :santa:


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

HKEquipment shipped mine. To California. Via Australia post. oo:
No E-mail received either.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> HKEquipment shipped mine. To California. Via Australia post. oo:
> No E-mail received either.



The website show Australia Post for mine too. Try the following link to Hong Kong Post for your tracking number.

http://www.hongkongpost.hk/en/mail_tracking/index.html


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> no news on iOS app update eta?


I've asked, they are working on an updated version, mostly bug fixes, and it should be posted rather soon. No concrete day given.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks for you quick answers guys, you're TOP!


----------



## McCoy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

What's everyone paying for these? and where?


----------



## clintb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



McCoy said:


> What's everyone paying for these? and where?


www.hkequipment.net
and
www.gearbest.com

You'll have to check the prices, and those are the only two that have it so far.


----------



## mms

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I got mine shipped from HKE, does anyone know about how long it usually takes to land on the Canadian west coast? Do I have too high hopes to get it by Christmas?


----------



## KeepingItLight

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The MC3000 is very good for this because you can set the end voltage, i.e. if you know the equipment need 1.1 volt, you tell the charger to stop at 1.1 volt and get exactly how much capacity is left for that purpose.



Great feature!

Does this mean the MC3000 can be programmed to discharge Li-ion batteries down to their proper storage level, around 3.6 volts? What would be a good amperage to use for that purpose?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



KeepingItLight said:


> Great feature!
> 
> Does this mean the MC3000 can be programmed to discharge Li-ion batteries down to their proper storage level, around 3.6 volts? What would be a good amperage to use for that purpose?



Yes, the amperage depends a on the functions in the charger. I believe you can use any current, but my first try failed.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Yes, the amperage depends a on the functions in the charger. I believe you can use any current, but my first try failed.



How did it fail?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> How did it fail?



The charger is supposed to slowly reduce the current, but it did just turn it off. My guess is that I did not select the correct parameters in the program, but I will first know that when I have tried once more.
I have a record of the the discharge (I started with a full cell) and I know the program number. I did look at the record and it did not look like I expected. Now I have to look at the program again and probably try one (or a couple) more timed.
Small details like this is one of the reasons that a review of advanced charges takes a long time.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Now I have to look at the program again



oki :thumbsup:


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Mine too - showing shipped with Australia Post. No email from hke.




billcushman said:


> The website show Australia Post for mine too. Try the following link to Hong Kong Post for your tracking number.
> 
> http://www.hongkongpost.hk/en/mail_tracking/index.html


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Since the charger is released, could it be good to start another thread for people that will receive it and rename this one pre-release or something like that?. This one begins to be long.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Mine also shows shipped in “My Acount” of HKE. When I track it I get “The item (LK*********) is being processed for departure from Hong Kong as of 4-Dec-2015.” 

I have not received an email to confirm shipped.

I have ordered quite a few things from HKE in the past and the shipping is usually pretty fast. If I remember correctly it seems like it always took around 7-10 days to ship to the United States. Woo Hoo!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Since the charger is released, could it be good to start another thread for people that will receive it and rename this one pre-release or something like that?. This one begins to be long.


I'll continue to post news and updates, special info or photos, answers to general questions and alike here. Posts about shipments, problems, waiting, also welcome. Flashlight threads are long (5000+ replies), this is far from it. I could add a FAQ at the bottom of the OP with links to my posts with topical contents.

HKJ is probably going to beat me to posting a review. So in his thread it makes sense for all of us to gather tests, measurements, screenshots, and similar technical topics of interest.

No need to have more than 2 mc3k-related threads then imho


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> I'll continue to post news and updates, special info or photos, answers to general questions and alike here. Posts about shipments, problems, waiting, also welcome. Flashlight threads are long (5000+ replies), this is far from it. I could add a FAQ at the bottom of the OP with links to my posts with topical contents.
> 
> HKJ is probably going to beat me to posting a review. So in his thread it makes sense for all of us to gather tests, measurements, screenshots, and similar technical topics of interest.
> 
> No need to have more than 2 mc3k-related threads then imho



That's make sense. I understand. I ordered mine yesterday from GB. They give a flashlight with it. My first purchase with this store(opus BT-3100 v2.2), was perfect. Hope this one too.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If anybody on the mood, maybe you can tell a n00b like me, in this charger what's the best program settings to charge for example TURNIGY 2550mAh AA NiMH LSD cells. 

Thanks


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

That is a good question morcegolas. One I personally can’t answer for certain. On all the chargers that I have owned, I have always charged everything on the default settings of the charger and so I have never studied up on this subject too much. 1C seems to stick in my mind as a rule of thumb for NiMH and Li-ions. 1C = 100% of the battery capacity in amp hours, e.g., 2250mAh would be charged at 2250mA or 2.25A. Like I said this is mostly rule of thumb and there is probably a more complicated formula. I also could be wrong and if so I am sure there will be someone that comes along to correct me. 1C just seemed like it was easy to remember and anything that veered too far away from that would send up red flags in my mind.

Seeing that this charger allows for up to a 3A charge rate, I need to start checking out what is supposed to be the best and/or fastest for the cells I have.

NiMH LSD 


AAA
AA
C 4000 mAh
D 8000 mAh

Li-ion


10440
14500
18650
26650 5200 mAh


----------



## PandaLight

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

They are finally shipping it out and I picked the free expedited shipping option so it should be here within a week! Their standard shipping cost $16, compared to $0 lol...
Anyways, I just noticed they are shipping by DHL and I've always had terrible experiences with DHL. I've used them twice and both times it came with ridiculous hidden costs upon arrival, on top of import tax. Does anyone have any experience with DHL from Gearbest?


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It depends on your country's import tax policies with regards to a specific shipper. In my country, any parcel shipped via the big 3 ( DHL, Fedex and UPS), _regardless of who the vendor is_, we get slapped of outrageous tax rates, that's why I always choose free shipping which goes through our local post office and only gets charged a flat rate of just only a little over a dollar equivalent, as 'processing fee', but the price to pay is the much longer shipping time.

One time I won an Xtar VP2 in a context, shipped via DHL. It was declared $25 by Xtar but I was charged $35 by my government!


----------



## The_Driver

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> If anybody on the mood, maybe you can tell a n00b like me, in this charger what's the best program settings to charge for example TURNIGY 2550mAh AA NiMH LSD cells.
> 
> Thanks





fnsooner said:


> That is a good question morcegolas. One I personally can’t answer for certain. On all the chargers that I have owned, I have always charged everything on the default settings of the charger and so I have never studied up on this subject too much. 1C seems to stick in my mind as a rule of thumb for NiMH and Li-ions. 1C = 100% of the battery capacity in amp hours, e.g., 2250mAh would be charged at 2250mA or 2.25A. Like I said this is mostly rule of thumb and there is probably a more complicated formula. I also could be wrong and if so I am sure there will be someone that comes along to correct me. 1C just seemed like it was easy to remember and anything that veered too far away from that would send up red flags in my mind.
> 
> Seeing that this charger allows for up to a 3A charge rate, I need to start checking out what is supposed to be the best and/or fastest for the cells I have.



1C and also 0,5C (but not less because the -Dv detection doesn't really work a low currents) are perfect for AA NiMH cells. For D NIMH cells I would try to go with 0,2-0,3C (most chargers can't do more anyway).
For Li-Ions 1C is a lot! It depends on the chemistry. Most of the current high-capacity "IMR" cells (Samsung 25R, 30Q etc.) are rated for a maximum of 4A. Most normal, high-capacity cells are rated for less (just check the corresponding datasheet). Maybe 0,3-1C.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



The_Driver said:


> 1C and also 0,5C (but not less because the -Dv detection doesn't really work a low currents) are perfect for AA NiMH cells. For D NIMH cells I would try to go with 0,2-0,3C (most chargers can't do more anyway).
> For Li-Ions 1C is a lot! It depends on the chemistry. Most of the current high-capacity "IMR" cells (Samsung 25R, 30Q etc.) are rated for a maximum of 4A. Most normal, high-capacity cells are rated for less (just check the corresponding datasheet). Maybe 0,3-1C.


Thanks, I am going to fill in the blanks on my battery list. Comments are welcome.

NiMH LSD


AAA 800mAh .8A 1C
AA 2000mAh 2A 1C
C 4000mAh 3A .75C
D 8000mAh 3A .375C

Li-ions


14440 600mAh .3A .5C
14500 850mAh .5A .625C
18650 30000mAh 1.5A .5C
26650 5200mAh 3A .57C

I also have some high drain lights that use four high drain 18650 batteries in each light. I guess I need to do some research to see what the maximum charge rate can be used on high drainers and still keep them healthy.

That's a lot to remember. I am wondering now if ignorance is bliss and should I just continue charging everything at 1A.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Not if you don't want to reduce the life of your batteries - charging your 10440 at 1A is 3C and not a good idea.

[QUOTE I am wondering now if ignorance is bliss and should I just continue charging everything at 1A.[/QUOTE]


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Not if you don't want to reduce the life of your batteries - charging your 10440 at 1A is 3C and not a good idea.
> 
> [QUOTE I am wondering now if ignorance is bliss and should I just continue charging everything at 1A.


[/QUOTE]

Yeah, charging wise, I have been pretty hard on my 10440s. I have four Trustfires that are about five or six years old that I have charged with whatever charger I was using at the time. They don’t seem to be any worse for the wear though. They may be the first cells that I analyze with my SkyRc. 

I am surprised they aren’t toast by now. Granted, I don’t use them too much any more. Only when I carry my Preon. I just didn’t care whether I shortened their lives and I had always thought when they quit working that I would buy some better ones, probably IMRs, but those old Trustfires just keep on going. 

Now that I have a charger that I can responsibly charge 10440s, I might start looking for some better cells. 

The charger I have been using for the last few years is a Fenix ARE-c2. It charges at 1A on li-ons and there is no adjustment. I also have two 14500s that are a couple of years old that I also charge indiscriminately. It will be interesting to see how my charging practices have affected my batteries over the last six years.

FWIW, my first Li-ion battery was a 10440 and I used it in a Fenix LD01 on my key chain for about two years. It was only used as a backup light but it did make me nervous and I constantly checked its voltage and kept it fully charged to the best of my ability. I initially refused to use Li-ion in head lamps because I didn’t want to tie a pipe bomb to my head. So I don’t have a history of disrespecting Li-ions. They still make me a little nervous. My main goal is to not over discharge.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> oki :thumbsup:


I got my new mc3000 today —it's a _broken_in_ unit from the trial production, same as HKJ's sample i guess— and I am testing the STORAGE operation mode on LiIon. Looks like, in my firmware version, the option D.REDUCE is a fixed OFF in the STORAGE mode, which is imho not correct. The option should be available. No wonder that HKJ and i are wondering what's happening lol. I'll send SKY an email and ask for a quick firmware update re this lemme call it bug.

Re our other discussion before, I also tested if the white symbols on the 8 buttons can be dissolved with alcohol or an aggressive chemical solvent like Knauf silicone remover. Looks like the white "ink/paint/printing/lasering/whateveritis" is resistant to such chemicals, yay! On the other hand i don't doubt that a rowdy would be able to cut out the symbols with a utility knife. Time will tell if the white wears off under normal usage. In any case, on my test unit, i installed the 8 buttons with the recessed symbols and numbers. Custom modded charger for kreisl 

pretty big retail box lol


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

fnsooner said, "The charger I have been using for the last few years is a Fenix ARE-c2. It charges at 1A on li-ons and there is no adjustment. I also have two 14500s that are a couple of years old that I also charge indiscriminately. It will be interesting to see how my charging practices have affected my batteries over the last six years."

The Fenix ARE-c2 charges at 500mA per slot unless the battery is long, like a 18650. The 1A current is selected if the battery is long enough to contact the spring at the bottom of the slots. This is explained in the HKJ review of the very similar (if not identical) Thrunite MCC-4.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?370547-Review-of-Charger-ThruNite-MCC-4


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks billcushman. I was not aware of this.

One of my customers is head of maintenance at a casino. He also is a Fenix rep and is always showing me the latest and greatest of Fenix. One day I went there to do some work and he showed me the Fenix charger. I bought one on the spot because of its ability to show voltage and Fenix's reputation.


I did do a quick google search on it but I guess I didn't dig deep enough to realize how it determined its charge rate. That is actually awesome news. I wonder if the MC3000 has this ability to check length of cell.


----------



## pfisto

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Good morning,
I see my unit shipper 12/02/15 I tried the tracking # but nothing comes up?? Will this arrive USPS or ups??
Thanks Mike


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



pfisto said:


> Good morning,
> I see my unit shipper 12/02/15 I tried the tracking # but nothing comes up?? Will this arrive USPS or ups??
> Thanks Mike


I bought mine from HKE. I copy and pasted the tracking number from them and used the link that billcushman posted and was able to get a hit. 

I also went to USPS tracking site. The tracking number was recognized by USPS and on the same page it allowed me to opt for text messages when there is new info on the tracking. So far I have received four text messages. The contents of the messages is kind of cryptic but it at least tells me that things are moving and are still in China as of 1:52 AM this morning.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The USPS site shows this:
Processed Through Sort Facility HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE, HONG KONG December 7, 2015 2:36 pm

The HongKong Post Tracking Site shows the following:
The item (LK**********HK) will leave Hong Kong for its destination on 8-Dec-2015

Here is a link to the HongKong Post Tracking Site:
http://www.hongkongpost.hk/en/mail_tracking/index.html

HongKong is 14 hours ahead of US CST. It's already December 8th in HongKong.


----------



## PandaLight

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tatasal said:


> It depends on your country's import tax policies with regards to a specific shipper. In my country, any parcel shipped via the big 3 ( DHL, Fedex and UPS), _regardless of who the vendor is_, we get slapped of outrageous tax rates, that's why I always choose free shipping which goes through our local post office and only gets charged a flat rate of just only a little over a dollar equivalent, as 'processing fee', but the price to pay is the much longer shipping time.
> 
> One time I won an Xtar VP2 in a context, shipped via DHL. It was declared $25 by Xtar but I was charged $35 by my government!



I did pick free shipping. It was the Expedited Shipping for $0. Anyways, a gift shouldn't have been taxed... lol


----------



## clintb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Up for pre-sale on Everbuying: http://www.everbuying.net/product1111478.html


----------



## Bizill

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Drats! So pre-ordering from HKE didn't pay off after all. "special pre-order pricing" my eye.:fail:


----------



## ven

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have too many chargers as it is but damn.......this one is tempting !


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

.....one is too many, and a thousand never enough....


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Mine is in Chicago, according to tracking.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> Mine is in Chicago, according to tracking.


Mine is still in Singapore on DHL.... Anybody have seen gearbest moving deliveries?


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

DHL Singapore also.


----------



## mms

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Sharkie said:


> Mine is still in Singapore on DHL.... Anybody have seen gearbest moving deliveries?


I don't have the best experience with gearbest, I ordered an item that they shipped on the 5th of November and I still did not get it. Could not track the item either.

In contrast HKE shipped my MC3000 on the 4th of December, and according to my local postal service (yes, I have proper tracking with HKE) I'll have it in a few days...


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



mms said:


> I'll have it in a few days...



Then you can start planning programs for the charger:







I hope I got everything in this table, but not everything is available for all cell types and settings are only enabled in relevant modes.


----------



## psychbeat

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Looks fun!!
^^^


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

And here my youtube review! :huh:





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjSQAQIQlv8


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Do we have a pdf of the definitive User Manual yet?


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> And here my youtube review! :huh:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjSQAQIQlv8



Wow that is an advanced charger.
My main concern was in fact accuray. Good to know you haven't found anything wrong in that regard.

I don't think I will be able to calibrate mine. was it way off before the calibration ?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Correct, there is absolutely nothing wrong in that regard. How could it be?, it uses the same standard technology which is found in digital multimeters.

No, my unit was imo not much off (voltage less off than amperage, say 6mV vs 9mA, average values) yet the slots were 'not consistently off', e.g. 4mV vs 7mA for a different slot. Would you call 9mA way off? You decide :shrug:

Actually.. maybe _my_ multimeter was/is off by 9mA, how would i know? So in all fairness assuming that my reference is untruthful, i would still be left to deal with the 2mA offness, 9 - 7 = 2mA.

Btw making slot voltages consistent is easy, no DMM needed. You would insert the same battery in all 4 slots one after the other and always enter the same voltage which was displayed for 1 slot, e.g. taken from slot#1. Needless to say, my unit is now more consistent across the four slots than it was yesterday ootb.

Sorry no word on a newer pdf. The latest manual is the printed version.


----------



## mms

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Then you can start planning programs for the charger:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope I got everything in this table, but not everything is available for all cell types and settings are only enabled in relevant modes.



Are there any predefined programs for charging or you have to make them too?


----------



## Bizill

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I ordered from HKE. Mine isn't updating shipping info via USPS or HKpost's site. Did you all pay for upgraded shipping by chance or go with the free shipping as did I?

USPS : We have received notice that the originating post is preparing to dispatch this mail piece.

HKPost: The item (LK101*****HK) is being processed for departure from Hong Kong as of 4-Dec-2015.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi kreisl

Thanks for clarifying that. No I don't think 9 mA is way off.
Btw I have just received notice from Gearbest that my unit is shipped


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

In the excellent YouTube video above, the UT61E Digital Multimeter basic DCV accuracy is .1%. The MC3000 is probably calibrated with a more accurate standard. Calibration to match the UT61E makes it agree with the UT61E but doesn't guarantee more accuracy. 

The Fluke 289 used by HKJ has a basic DCV accuracy of .025%. This is four times more accurate than the UT61E. HKJ has tested the UT61E. A link to his review is listed below.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review UNI-T UT61E UK.html

Unless you have a suitable reference standard, I suggest that most users should not recalibrate the MC3000. If you do recalibrate, you can retrieve the original factory calibration, according to the MC3000 manual.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



mms said:


> Are there any predefined programs for charging or you have to make them too?



No, you have to make all the program yourself (Or use dummy mode).


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> The Fluke 289 used by HKJ has a basic DCV accuracy of .025%. This is four times more accurate than the UT61E.



If I check something I expect is fairly accurate I uses Fluke 8846A or similar meter with about 10 times better accuracy.

A cheap DMM is not the right tool to calibrate the MC3000, but luckily it has a "reset to factory calibration" to recover from that.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> If I check something I expect is fairly accurate I uses Fluke 8846A or similar meter with about 10 times better accuracy.
> 
> A cheap DMM is not the right tool to calibrate the MC3000, but luckily it has a "reset to factory calibration" to recover from that.



The Fluke 8846A is an extremely accurate meter that typically costs over $1500. For those that are not familiar with high accuracy meters I have supplied a link to the 8846A specs.

http://us.flukecal.com/products/dat...precision-multime?quicktabs_product_details=2


----------



## clintb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

After seeing the video, and reading the discussion, the MC3000 has me thinking I've just purchased the multi-bay equivalent of a FMA Revolectrix PowerLab 8...and I own one of those and couldn't be happier with it.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

by reading this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision

seems that accuracy, precision, reproducibility, repeatability

are all different concepts and have different meanings


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Bizill said:


> I ordered from HKE. Mine isn't updating shipping info via USPS or HKpost's site. Did you all pay for upgraded shipping by chance or go with the free shipping as did I?
> 
> USPS : We have received notice that the originating post is preparing to dispatch this mail piece.
> 
> HKPost: The item (LK101*****HK) is being processed for departure from Hong Kong as of 4-Dec-2015.



That is weird. That is the same message I got with my initial Hong Kong tracking. Hopefully it is just part of a big bulk pallet and yours is in the middle and is not getting scanned or something, but it is still in transit.

My tracking hasn’t been updated since December 7, 9:26 pm when it was reported as being processed through sort facility in Chicago.

I went with the free shipping.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Bizill said:


> I ordered from HKE. Mine isn't updating shipping info via USPS or HKpost's site. Did you all pay for upgraded shipping by chance or go with the free shipping as did I?
> 
> USPS : We have received notice that the originating post is preparing to dispatch this mail piece.
> 
> HKPost: The item (LK101*****HK) is being processed for departure from Hong Kong as of 4-Dec-2015.



Mine was shipped from HKE using HongKongPost e-express. Details of the e-express service can be found in the link below:
http://www.hongkongpost.hk/en/sending_mail/international/air/eexpress/index.html

Note that this service costs the shipper about $30 for a package about the weight of the MC3000. Click on all the sections of the link and you will learn all about HongKong Post e-express.

Currently mine shows shipped from Hong Kong but not yet processed in the US. I suspect it will go to San Francisco and be handed to USPS for delivery to Houston TX, but it might come directly to Houston which has a large international airport.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Sharkie said:


> Mine is still in Singapore on DHL.... Anybody have seen gearbest moving deliveries?



Mine is shipped today by Netherlands post. Provided tracking # doesn't work yet, though...


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> If anybody on the mood, maybe you can tell a n00b like me, in this charger what's the best program settings to charge for example TURNIGY 2550mAh AA NiMH LSD cells.
> 
> Thanks



NiMHs are best charged with as low a current as possible, and as small a dP as possible. I found out that, at least for the eneloop reciever packs for my RC planes, 400mA and -4mV delta Peak are good values. I run 10mA trickle charge afterwards, but only because the cells are combied in a pack. Individual cells won't need this. All my charges were terminated reliably by my iChargers.
I really can't recommend higher charge rates, as many RC buddies who do so complain about increasing inner resistance of their packs after a while.
As long as the dP triggers, and you have no time constraints, higher charge currents will never be beneficial for these clls.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Julian Holtz said:


> NiMHs are best charged with as low a current as possible, and as small a dP as possible. I found out that, at least for the eneloop reciever packs for my RC planes, 400mA and -4mV delta Peak are good values.



Not really, you are at a current where it is a question about luck if it terminates.
You can see some test I did here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?410902-Battery-charging-NiMH


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> A cheap DMM is not the right tool to calibrate the MC3000, but luckily it has a "reset to factory calibration" to recover from that.


It is true that if the calibration of a cheap DMM has drifted much due to aging electronic components and whatnot AND my charger has been made matching with this questionable source, then the capacity readings of my charger will be of little use, no good. What goes around comes around.

So i'll try to buy and analyze a bunch of factory fresh batteries for which manufacturer datasheets exist. I do have various sets of unused high quality batteries, stored for 6-12 months, they might not be really suitable for the reproduction of datasheet graphs and values.

Ferdinando is also right with the link. The mc3k calibration procedure is not really about accuracy or precision per se but rather about setting a reference scale, such that the MCU can relate the identical "1001011" internal reading to a 4.201V (mastech ref) or a 4.19982V (fluke ref) measurement value, and about establishing perfect consistency across the four slots.

So … my reference may be wrong, but the consistency is right as demo'ed in the vid.


----------



## mms

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeeeay, I got mine today, thanks HKE, that was faster than I could ever dream 

Playing around with it, I really like to watch the diagrams on my PC's screen 

The UI needs some "getting used to it", but should be fine after using it a few times.


----------



## hey_tommy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> And here my youtube review! :huh:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjSQAQIQlv8



Lol, Squirrel you big weirdo. Pacific Sirens - really? That and the gloves, it's like watching footage from Star Trek: TOS - deep in Scottie's engineering enclave. Those must be dilithium crystal batteries aren't they.

But seriously, I have to ask - how come the gloves in all videos? And the silent pointing? Not poking fun, just curious. Oh, and what's the piano piece in the background on the powerbanking one, with the green polka dot gardening gloves?


Tom


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If you write a review Kreisler, can you also post a shorter version? I know it's gonna be very detailed and something we haven't seen in a while.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I ordered mine friday from GB and they ship it today. I paid for the insurance (3.00) The first time I bought from them was the Opus 3100 v2.2 and it took 3 weeks to arrive in Montreal. Hope to receive this one too without any problems as some people have with the shipping.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> I ordered mine friday from GB and they ship it today. I paid for the insurance (3.00) The first time I bought from them was the Opus 3100 v2.2 and it took 3 weeks to arrive in Montreal. Hope to receive this one too without any problems as some people have with the shipping.



I also pay the insurance from GB, mine was shipped 4/12 but I order free shipping, so mine still says 'Item is pre-advised' since 8/12


----------



## mms

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Well, I really hope you got more luck than me with GB, I payed insurance and tracking for my other item back in early November and still nothing  I'm pretty much done with them...


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

++++++1


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

And you didn't ask for a refund on PayPal? I will wait four weeks, if I have no item or information regarding tracking number I will talk to PayPal.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> And you didn't ask for a refund on PayPal? I will wait four weeks, if I have no item or information regarding tracking number I will talk to PayPal.


I have a tracking on DHL since dec 3rd, but i think it's only a way to say it's going out... 

I opened a support ticket on GB and no news !!!!

What a bad service !


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@Sharkie regarding to support on tickets I can also say that they are bad, they take way too long to answer, not even close of those 24h.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

They shipped mine via Neatherlands Post Registered. I received the tracking with a picture but I cannot read anything on the box because the picture is out of focus. The tracking did not work for my first order but received it and doesn't work with this one too. Free shipping but this time I took insurance. I will wait a month and if I will not receive it, Paypal dispute. I cross my finger....


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

http://new.17track.net/en Try this tracking site, it's their new, beta version.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tatasal said:


> http://new.17track.net/en Try this tracking site, it's their new, beta version.



Netherlands(PostNL Internat) Not found....I will try tomorrow. It will be 48 hours.


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

http://www.postnl.post/


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tatasal said:


> http://www.postnl.post/



Detail page of shipments
The shipment barcode was not found.
Please check if your shipment barcode belongs to a registered mail item.


----------



## Bizill

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I've had a tracking number (not emailed to me) from HKE since the 4th and it finally is in the hands of HONG KONG AIR MAIL CENTRE, HONG KONG. So the tracking was just a placeholder until it finally shipped. So I was hoping it would show up any day, but now I have to start my wait all over. It won't be long now though, I hope. Arizona, USA here.


----------



## TeMpL

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Detail page of shipments
> The shipment barcode was not found.
> Please check if your shipment barcode belongs to a registered mail item.



Same here...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> Great news kreisl, no news on iPhone app yet?


They are working on updated apps versions but i don't know when the updated Android and the updated iPhone app will be finally posted online. So, no, no hard news, sorry.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Great news kreisl, no news on iPhone app yet?


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Soon enough there will be an alternative logging software available (Win/Mac/Linux), a very attractive one, I am looking at a beta version. It's an open project free non-commercial software with community code contributions.



Would you mind posting a link to that open-source project?


----------



## mms

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Netherlands(PostNL Internat) Not found....I will try tomorrow. It will be 48 hours.



The only place I could get any tracking data was here, but only about a week after they told me they shipped:
http://www.postnl.post/tracktrace

And yeah, GB support is the worst, I contacted them and the only thing they told me was to wait... PayPal claim on the way btw, and GB never again for me :scowl:


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



mms said:


> The only place I could get any tracking data was here, but only about a week after they told me they shipped:
> http://www.postnl.post/tracktrace
> 
> And yeah, GB support is the worse, I contacted them and the only thing they told me was to wait... PayPal claim on the way btw, and GB never again for me :scowl:



On Post NL site: Which countries support international Track & Trace on registered mail?

Track & Trace on international registered mail is currently supported for the following countries of destination:....

Canada is not on the list, lol. Why they ship Post NL with a tracking number if the tracking service is not available in this country? That could explain why the tracking did not work for my first order too...


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

As I understand, Chinese sellers acquire tracking numbers from post operators in bulk quantities, and assign them to the parcels at the packaging facility - so, actual tracking doesn't work until particular package is transferred to the post office and scanned. In my practice, it's quite common for goods from Eastern web shops to be first detected by tracking services several days (or even weeks) after the seller reported it as "shipped"...


----------



## gyzmo2002

-Archie- said:


> As I understand, Chinese sellers acquire tracking numbers from post operators in bulk quantities, and assign them to the parcels at the packaging facility - so, actual tracking doesn't work until particular package is transferred to the post office and scanned. In my practice, it's quite common for goods from Eastern web shops to be first detected by tracking services several days (or even weeks) after the seller reported it as "shipped"...



Usualy when I buy from Asia, if the tracking is working, the last trace I have is when my package left the origin country. When it arrives in Canada, Canada post takes it in charge but it is impossible to have the new tracking number from them. No issue when I bought from US via usps. There is a "relation" between them. I don't know exactly how its works. 

For US costumer, could you track your package when it arrives in your country with usps when you buy from Asia?

Thank you for the explanation


----------



## mms

gyzmo2002 said:


> Usualy when I buy from Asia, if the tracking is working, the last trace I have is when my package left the origin country. When it arrives in Canada, Canada post takes it in charge but it is impossible to have the new tracking number from them. No issue when I bought from US via usps. There is a "relation" between them. I don't know exactly how its works.
> 
> For US costumer, could you track your package when it arrives in your country with usps when you buy from Asia?
> 
> Thank you for the explanation


Well, the MC3000 that I just bought from HKE had the tracking number working all the way to my door with Canada post...


----------



## gyzmo2002

Who is the carrier? 

China post, Swedish post and forgot some, the last info that their tracking leave is "left origin country" or something like that. When Canada post takes the shipment, they attribute a new tracking number but we cannot have it.


----------



## tatasal

mms said:


> Well, the MC3000 that I just bought from HKE had the tracking number working all the way to my door with Canada post...



I'm not surprised with this at all, for in my experience, buying anything that comes out of HK always has the tracking number go active in only about 3 days at most, unlike buying from mainland China. HK post is simply more efficient and updates much earlier than any post service operating in China.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

With GB, they ship with Post-nl with a tracking number but like I said above, I read in Post-nl website that their tracking doesn't work for Canada. I don't know what GB could do if the package is lost if the tracking is not working for Canada.

I received my first package from them and had not took insurance that time. This time, hopefully I took it but if the package is lost, they gonna have problems with the tracking of the shipment. Happy to use paypal.


----------



## Gauss163

tatasal said:


> buying anything that comes out of HK always has the tracking number go active in only about 3 days at most, unlike buying from mainland China. HK post is simply more efficient and updates much earlier than any post service operating in China.



I've purchased hundreds of items from China on eBay. Most ship by ePacket(EUB). With such, the tracking number is active the day it is shipped (accepted), which is usually the day or day after payment (depending on time of payment). Most of them reach me in USA in 9-10 days.


----------



## tatasal

gyzmo2002 said:


> Who is the carrier?
> 
> China post, Swedish post and forgot some, the last info that their tracking leave is "left origin country" or something like that. When Canada post takes the shipment, they attribute a new tracking number but we cannot have it.



Haha, I have been buying online for years but until now could never understand how any of these postal services' web of delivery circuit work ie: who their counterpart forwarder is, etc.! 

What I am just sure is HKpost just doesn't belong to what I call "Chinese shipping lottery", (whether it's CN, SG, NL and some other abbreviations). Perhaps it's because the volume of individual packages going of HK is just a fraction when compared to mainland China. My past experiences with mail from China is sometimes surprisingly fast, majority at regular speed, at times snail-pace and with a tracking number that only goes active just when you are about to receive your package, all sorts of combinations.

Btw, I am in Asia and, as an example, NL post is very slow to reach me, but is raved by most as fast from China to EU or USA.


----------



## gyzmo2002

tatasal said:


> Haha, I have been buying online for years but until now could never understand how any of these postal services' web of delivery circuit work



Me too. I never had a lost package. I bought each week from AliExpress items from Asia. When trackings works, it is only for a short period of time. When the package leave the continent, it stop to be updating. 

With Aliexpress, they keep your money and when you receive your stock and everything is ok, you tell them and they pay the seller. If something wrong happens after they paid him, you open a dispute the same way as paypal. Before, I bought from Ebay but their shipping cost are high. With Ali, I never paid for shipping and for duties. I cross my fingers.


----------



## Andrey

My MC3000 has just arrived (to CA).
Shipped Dec 4th from HKE.
Let the fun begin! :santa:


----------



## steakeatr

Guys, my charger has arrived. Attached below are some pictures.

http://imgur.com/a/H6tNJ






















And yes, I know, my cells are most likely not authentic or overstate their capacity (One of the reasons I bought the charger). If anybody is in Sydney and wants to test/donate High quality LiIon cells, be my guest d:

EDIT 2 : *Since I have a unit, AMA (Ask Me Anything), and Ill try to answer.*


----------



## kreisl

In future i won't(?) always be posting FW update _screenshots _like the following one —it will depend on how frequently FW updates are made available by the maker— but updating the thread with the _text _about the availability of a new FW update is always good posting etiquette :thumbsup:








HKJ said:


> The charger is supposed to slowly reduce the current, but it did just turn it off. My guess is that I did not select the correct parameters in the program, but I will first know that when I have tried once more.
> I have a record of the the discharge (I started with a full cell) and I know the program number. I did look at the record and it did not look like I expected. Now I have to look at the program again and probably try one (or a couple) more timed.


This update is important for testers/reviewers of the charger. The Storage operation mode has now a functional D.REDUCE option, the bug is fixed, I have tested it! Also cool and new to me, the possibility to change the contrast of the LCD screen (Go to GSV and depress ENTER on the last row "HW Version:"); this new feature is not mentioned in the printed manual lol.

For updating the firmware you'll need a Windows PC and launch the 'MC3000 Monitor' software (lemme call it "*PCLS*" from now on, short for "PC Link Software"). The crc32 of the very latest PCLS version *.EXE is 985B1430 and it was posted today on the Sky website packed in a *.RAR-archive. 



​
When you click on the "Save"-button in the PCLS, the program saves a *.BMP-screenshot and a *.CSV-data file which you could open with _notepad.exe_ to examine the contents: column separator is semicolon, and decimal separator is automatically either comma or period depending on your country/OS settings. I can directly open the CSV-file with Excel 2010 (geman) without making use of the Excel Import File wizard.

Soon enough there will be an alternative logging software available (Win/Mac/Linux), a very attractive one, I am looking at a beta version. It's an open project free non-commercial software with community code contributions.


----------



## fnsooner

LessDark said:


> Is this the only charger that can charge 4x26650 at 2A at the same time?


I think so. 

Every one is excited about all the analyzing, Bluetooth and customization bells and whistles on this charger, but charging the larger cells, four at a time, is what caught my attention. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Don’t get me wrong, I am geeked about this chargers capabilities but I would not have bought one with out the larger footprint and the ability to charge four 26650 batteries at the same time and at a higher charge rate. 

My latest tracking information is still December 7 in Chicago.


----------



## KeepingItLight

KeepingItLight said:


> I guess most of us would love to win the new SkyRC MC3000 charger/analyzer.
> 
> If that is too expensive, perhaps the LiitoKala Engineer Lii-500 would be more like it.




I had the temerity to suggest that GearBest give away one of these chargers in its latest giveaway, and what do you know?

GearBest went for it!

Giveaway thread is here.


----------



## Dubois

I noticed your tongue in cheek request to Gearbest - I think I was as surprised as you to see that it is now on offer if 80 members joing the giveaway. The fact that I have one on the way (last seen at HK airport) won't stop me from trying for another.

Nice work, KeepingItLight


----------



## KeepingItLight

Yeah, it's our duty to join this giveaway. Lol! Gotta get to 80.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Mine shipped on Dec 4th from HKE. Hoping it gets here soon so I have it for Christmas break! 

I have a ton of batteries to test for capacity!


----------



## Mr Floppy

KeepingItLight said:


> Yeah, it's our duty to join this giveaway. Lol! Gotta get to 80.



If it gets it to 80, all the merrier, but in the spirit of giving, hope anyone will pay it forward to those without. Namely me!!!! 

Harsh entry conditions, only bought the one light this year.


----------



## fnsooner

Well I am in on the GB giveaway. I never win these kind of things but pitching in on the eighty submits.


It is also an interesting topic, even without the giveaway.


----------



## DBrier

Mine arrived in MI today. I'm tracking it with USPS and I hope to have it next week. Indianapolis isn't that far.


----------



## scarnific

Bought one in preorder from GB, payed extra 2.99$ for expedited shipping with One world express. Shipped 04/12, tracked from 10/12 at Shenzhen Sorting Centre, departed from Hong Kong Airport 11/12. Hope to receive it before Christmas :thumbsup:


----------



## kreisl

scarnific said:


> Bought one in preorder from GB, payed extra 2.99$ for expedited shipping with One world express. Shipped 04/12, tracked from 10/12 at Shenzhen Sorting Centre, departed from Hong Kong Airport 11/12. Hope to receive it before Christmas :thumbsup:


Amazing to see quite a handful of very new (or lurking) cpf registered members (Oct/Nov/Dec) with very low post count showing up. Welcome to cpf, scarnific and all the other new registrations! :wave:

mc3k is a scene release/community charger, so let us know how you like everything. For example the other day i submitted an idea about the backlight: 
when it's off, it should turn on as soon as a battery is inserted. Sometimes i get such genius idea.


----------



## -Archie-

*kreisl*, thanks for warm greeting!


----------



## HKJ

kreisl said:


> When you click on the "Save"-button in the PCLS, the program saves a *.BMP-screenshot and a *.CSV-data file which you could open with _notepad.exe_ to examine the contents: column separator is semicolon, and decimal separator is automatically either comma or period depending on your country/OS settings. I can directly open the CSV-file with Excel 2010 (geman) without making use of the Excel Import File wizard.



I do not get any CSV files, only the BMP (I am running V1.01).


----------



## kreisl

HKJ said:


> I do not get any CSV files, only the BMP (I am running V1.01).


My PC test machine is WinXP-SP3 (32-bit, geman), crc32 of PCLS *.EXE is 985B1430. On my system the software dumps 2 files at the same time into the same folder, BMP and CSV. What's your system, or can you test on a different Win PC?

BTW before i record an important run, i quit PCLS and the relaunch it to clear internal memory. Then i hit the Start-button in PCLS to start all 4 slots at once and the recording.
(…)
Today I am mimicking the CYCLE program of MH-C9000 on the MC3000 and the process looks legit so far!! :kiss:


----------



## HKJ

I am testing on a Win7 64 bit computer.


----------



## scarnific

kreisl said:


> Amazing to see quite a handful of very new (or lurking) cpf registered members (Oct/Nov/Dec) with very low post count showing up. Welcome to cpf, scarnific and all the other new registrations! :wave:
> 
> mc3k is a scene release/community charger, so let us know how you like everything. For example the other day i submitted an idea about the backlight:
> when it's off, it should turn on as soon as a battery is inserted. Sometimes i get such genius idea.



Thank you Kreisl. I was following this forum in "lurker mode" :laughing:, and yesterday I decide to sign up and join officialy this great community.
Hope to become part of you :laughing:


----------



## kreisl

HKJ said:


> I am testing on a Win7 64 bit computer.



Works okay here!


----------



## B-2Admirer

fnsooner said:


> My latest tracking information is still December 7 in Chicago.


An order from China to a person I know in the US is tracking as "Arrived at USPS Facility CHICAGO, IL 60701" since "October 3, 2015, 6:30 pm". When the wait became uncomfortably long, the seller was notified and they sent a replacement, which passed the "Arrived at USPS Facility CHICAGO, IL 60701" stage in less than a day (on November 7, 2015, 10:52 pm it was in Chicago and the next stage was on November 8, 2015, 9:29 pm). I suspect the seller made an obvious mistake with the address of the first item, so it was returned to the sender without the return being registered by the tracker.


----------



## fnsooner

B-2Admirer said:


> An order from China to a person I know in the US is tracking as "Arrived at USPS Facility CHICAGO, IL 60701" since "October 3, 2015, 6:30 pm". When the wait became uncomfortably long, the seller was notified and they sent a replacement, which passed the "Arrived at USPS Facility CHICAGO, IL 60701" stage in less than a day (on November 7, 2015, 10:52 pm it was in Chicago and the next stage was on November 8, 2015, 9:29 pm). I suspect the seller made an obvious mistake with the address of the first item, so it was returned to the sender without the return being registered by the tracker.



My tracking was updated overnight and my package is now in Memphis. Tulsa is its final destination. So my MC3000 is about 400 miles away. Hopefully I will get it Monday.

So it took from Dec 4 until Dec 7(three days) to get from Hong Kong to Chicago and from Dec7 to Dec 13(six days) to go from Chicago to Memphis. If it gets here Monday(tomorrow), that would be ten days to go from Honk Kong to Tulsa. I should have it in my hands in the next day or so. :candle:


----------



## millguy

Last I heard on mine.
The item (LK******HK) left Hong Kong for its destination on 8-Dec-2015


----------



## andrewnewman

At this point I almost can't wait for folks to get their units and hear their experiences. Just out of curiosity, how much of the "smart" functionality requires the PC-Link software and how much can be done via smartphone BT setup? I'm particularly interested in the ability to update the firmware. I am a Mac-only household so PC-Link introduces a challenge.


----------



## kreisl

andrewnewman said:


> how much can be done via smartphone BT setup? I'm particularly interested in the ability to update the firmware. I am a Mac-only household so PC-Link introduces a challenge.


None of the BT apps, neither iphone nor android, can update the firmware. Not now, nor in future. This is a promise. While i can't provide any further technical explanation to the why's and why not's, everyone could easily think of a logical reason: the firmware transfer must be happening thru a stable connection. The BT connection must be stable, and the app must be stable. Ah and the inet connection must be stable.


----------



## andrewnewman

kreisl said:


> None of the BT apps, neither iphone nor android, can update the firmware. Not now, nor in future. This is a promise. While i can't provide any further technical explanation to the why's and why not's, everyone could easily think of a logical reason: the firmware transfer must be happening thru a stable connection. The BT connection must be stable, and the app must be stable. Ah and the inet connection must be stable.
> 
> Maybe there will be a standalone patcher for Win/Mac computer in future which first downloads the binary onto local disk in a folder and then the user must tell the patcher to locate the file and transfer it to the device thru the USB cable. But for now there is no Mac patcher/Mac PCLS and as mentioned before, firmware updating will never be made possible thru either app sorry.



Thanks kreisl. Makes a lot of sense. I will probably just wait until the firmware stabilizes and just enjoy other's reviews (which will hopefully be positive) before taking the leap. I'm not too worried.


----------



## DBrier

Because the firmware can be updated, I didn't worry about being an early adopter.


----------



## HKJ

I do not believe this firmware updating is a big issue. The software and hardware do not need to be installed, but can be run directly from a usb stick, i.e. if you know somebody with a pc it is fairly easy to get help.

I wonder why they refuses to update from the phone, it is possible for other hardware to be updated that way.


----------



## retrocon

Another one of those "lurkers" joining in. First, let me say that this thread led me to pre-order the MC3000, and i received it a couple of days ago. I'm not a battery expert, but being in the high-tech industry, i like to learn everything i can when i jump into something new like this. I'm a tactical light user, and becoming a rechargeable battery consumer, tired of the failures of what i'll call the "green walmart cheapo specials." Honestly, i'm learning that part of the problem with them, is me. And my lack of knowledge about chargers and battery chemistry. So, thanks CPF for being a resource here.

That said, my experience with the MC3000 and PCLS and the iPhone app are stacking up. Well, somewhat. i can't get the iPhone app to even come up and stay up on an iPhone or iPad mini. I'm suspecting that because i'm running 9.1 and 9.2, i'm a little ahead of the curve on upgrades, waiting for HKE to let me know about known issues, if any. 

i'm running Windows 10, and PCLS works. Well, eventually. when i first installed it, it would monitor the battery bays, but when i tried to update the firmware to 1.03 (like i said, i'm into upgrading), it would not do anything at the PC, but the charger screen would light up, and blank out. I could leave it that way for hours, and nothing. Very consistent. When i cut the connection and power, and restarted the the charger, it would come up without the upgrade, and back to default settings. Whew, at least it came up without firmware corruption.

Yesterday, i re-downloaded the PCLS, and tried the update again. This time, i got a dialog with come "vector err" listed. I clicked through it and got another "err" dialog, and then clicked through that. It worked finally. Got a success notice, and when i checked the charger, it was, indeed, upgraded firmware to 1.03. 

All this said, i love the charger, hope to get my iPhone or iPad working with it soon. Did a couple of programs and didn't blow anything up (yet).

Thanks again for all the info. kreisl's input has been invaluable, and i'm really looking forward to HKJ's additional review info.


----------



## B-2Admirer

fnsooner said:


> My tracking was updated overnight and my package is now in Memphis. Tulsa is its final destination. So my MC3000 is about 400 miles away. Hopefully I will get it Monday.
> 
> So it took from Dec 4 until Dec 7(three days) to get from Hong Kong to Chicago and from Dec7 to Dec 13(six days) to go from Chicago to Memphis. If it gets here Monday(tomorrow), that would be ten days to go from Honk Kong to Tulsa. I should have it in my hands in the next day or so. :candle:


Well, then, consider yourself lucky by comparison to someone like me; the way things are in my country I'm very unlikely to get it this year, even though mine, just like yours, shipped on Dec 4.


----------



## Phlogiston

HKJ said:


> I wonder why they refuses to update from the phone, it is possible for other hardware to be updated that way.



That struck me as odd, too. Even if the Bluetooth link would shut down during the update (entirely possible), there's no reason why you couldn't plug the charger into the phone using a USB cable and a USB OTG adaptor.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> Would you mind posting a link to that open-source project?


Sorry no link. 

But you should be able to google the project on the web. The FREE open project is called DataExplorer, my short for it be "*DEX*" henceforth. I've seen working beta version screenshots under Win, Mac, and Linux. The software mostly works as logger/visualizer for the mc3k but in future it is conceivable that it will also support basic control or slot programming. However i don't believe that DEX will ever allow the updating of the firmware from within the DEX interface.
*
Summary:*

*PCLS* — _the proprietary original *p*ersonal *c*omputer *l*ink *s*oftware program for simple logging, basic control, firmware updating, data export. standalone ~1MB *.EXE application. actual name is "MC3000 Monitor", available for WinPC only. download from skyrc website. i like it. very simple to use and suitable for testing the charger, hardware, firmware. for more detailed analysis something like Excel is urgently needed to import the data. PCLS updates mostly for bug fixing._ 
*DEX* — _the third-party FREE generic data logging software (similar to LogView) for advanced logging, (possibly basic control in distant future), data export and much more. supports many particular devices like multimeters, chargers, hobby chargers, etc. ~32MB download, full installation required, available for WinPC 32-bit/64-bit, MacOS, and Linux. actual name is "*D*ata*Ex*plorer". download from open project site. i like it. simple to use and suitable for testing batteries in detail. no Excel urgently needed for more detailed analysis. DEX updates for bug fixing and expanding the code, adding new features, new devices. _ 

*As a general note*, please don't forget that CPF is a ~flashlight/batteries/charger forum and not a software forum nor a coding support forum. DEX has its own support site afaik, great for reporting bugs in DEX, asking for DEX-specific help, and similar. (Actually, DEX is easy to learn/use, and the English Help doc explains everything very well too.) So let's try to keep it clean here, not too much offtopic talk.
There should be no problem though with posting info on the availability of new DEX versions ("_Good news everyone, a new DEX version is available, i just wanted to share that piece of info! It has now improved device support for our MC3000, yay!_"). 

@-Archie-, 
when you find out that a new DEX version is out, feel free to let us know here. But better refrain from posting any links, download links related to DEX - that's my advice.


----------



## andrewnewman

Phlogiston said:


> That struck me as odd, too. Even if the Bluetooth link would shut down during the update (entirely possible), there's no reason why you couldn't plug the charger into the phone using a USB cable and a USB OTG adaptor.



One could certainly devise a mechanism to trigger a firmware update from BT or using USB OTG. The problem is that this approach is just one more "feature" to support and introduces a few issues:

1) Hopefully firmware updates of items like chargers will be an infrequent event so the feature wouldn't be heavily used and if a bug were to become apparent the company would have to deal with lots of "bricked" chargers. Also human error cannot always be factored out completely (although a smart mechanism could minimize the risks).

2) Most developers of embedded firmware need an R&D mechanism to update/flash new firmware. The mechanism is usually neither user-friendly nor foolproof. By making this explicitly outside of the routine UI you limit the number of people who will try (and possibly fail) an upgrade. I'm guessing that the company is just exposing to users the mechanism they use internally to test new firmware.

I bet if the power is interrupted during a firmware load of an MC3000 the results will be very un-good. Through PC-Link you *might* be able to get a hardware-implemented bootstrap loader that you could use to recover. If all you had were BT or needed a USB driver you'd certainly have a problem.

Just my thoughts. As others said, this isn't a software development BB... So back to our regular programming....


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Sorry no link.  But you should be able to google the project on the web. The FREE open project is called DataExplorer,


 Found & just tried it with hobby charger: looks great. Many thanks for the information! Never heard about them before...


> @-Archie-, when you find out that a new DEX version is out, feel free to let us know here. But better refrain from posting any links, download links related to DEX - that's my advice.


 Ok. As a new member, I'm not aware of local secrets, but if you have a reason for that advise - I'll follow your recommendation.


----------



## verdum

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

ordered mine from GB
*Does*_ anybody know if package content will be the same as for pre-sale units (sent on review) ? _


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My package supposedly contains cheap LED torch automatically added for free, according to GB order details...


----------



## ARXANGEL

Bad, that fogot say that need to add 9v slot charge. And may be add translations software to another languages in settings.
I buy charger on GB, await for ship.


----------



## >PETE<

+1 for 9V battery support somehow


----------



## Gauss163

>PETE< said:


> +1 for 9V battery support somehow



Consider instead RC/hobby chargers, e.g. four $25 Accucels combined are smaller than the MC3000 (78% volume), and they provide more power and features (but are a bit less convenient if your typical MC3000 use is very simple, e.g. dummy mode).


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> e.g. four $25 Accucels combined are


sure that'll do, also same money

��


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> ... but no joy in it. back to square one. wiring. et cetera



Depends. MC3000 won't be so joyful if you need to (balance) charge packs. Which proves best will depend highly on the context. I get lots of local requests for advice. For some users I recommend single-cell chargers, and for others I recommend RC/hobby chargers. Better, get both if your budget allows and you'd like the best of both worlds.


----------



## megawolf

Yay! Finally got mine yesterday!, I am very new to charging batteries the smartest charger that I had was an opus btc-2400, now this is the ferrary of the chargers!, I have a question for you that have this charger I wanted to know the capacity of a set of "4 aaa eneloops" so I did a refresh but whats the last capacity shown in the screen?
1- the mAh that where put in the battery (last charge)
2- the mAh that where taken from the battery (discharge)

I left the charger doing its thing because it was gonna take some time so I didn't take note of the mAh after the discharge (when it was resting). At the end of the refresh operation (the final charge) the mAh went up to 830mAh right after went down to 760mAh and stayed on that number.

Thanks for your help and *Kreisl* thank you so much for making this charger a reality!


----------



## mms

megawolf said:


> Yay! Finally got mine yesterday!, I am very new to charging batteries the smartest charger that I had was an opus btc-2400, now this is the ferrary of the chargers!, I have a question for you that have this charger I wanted to know the capacity of a set of "4 aaa eneloops" so I did a refresh but whats the last capacity shown in the screen?
> 1- the mAh that where put in the battery (last charge)
> 2- the mAh that where taken from the battery (discharge)
> 
> I left the charger doing its thing because it was gonna take some time so I didn't take note of the mAh after the discharge (when it was resting). At the end of the refresh operation (the final charge) the mAh went up to 830mAh right after went down to 760mAh and stayed on that number.
> 
> Thanks for your help and *Kreisl* thank you so much for making this charger a reality!



After the cycle is finished the discharge capacity is shown. That's why you saw the 830mAh first, that was the final charge capacity, when it finished it switched back to show the discharge capacity 760mAh.


----------



## megawolf

mms said:


> After the cycle is finished the discharge capacity is shown. That's why you saw the 830mAh first, that was the final charge capacity, when it finished it switched back to show the discharge capacity 760mAh.



Great! Thanks for your quick reply! The 4 eneloops have a diference between 4 an 10 mAh
What a great charger this is, I just ordered a bunch of new eneloops to play with it .


----------



## kreisl

megawolf said:


> Great! Thanks for your quick reply! The 4 eneloops have a diference between 4 an 10 mAh
> What a great charger this is, I just ordered a bunch of new eneloops to play with it .


with new aaa eneloops the difference should be 2mAh max. if it's higher than that and you're puzzled by it then i'd check the calibration and fine tune it. it's the first thing i did when i got my test sample.


----------



## megawolf

kreisl said:


> with new aaa eneloops the difference should be 2mAh max. if it's higher than that and you're puzzled by it then i'd check the calibration and fine tune it. it's the first thing i did when i got my test sample.



Actually those that I used where 4 years old eneloops, I just ordered a bunch of them today and will try it when they get to my hands, I still need to learn how to calibrate it and buy a multimiter  can you recomend me one that I can trust, to be honest to calibrate the charger is the only thing that I gonna use it for :shrug: ,


----------



## HKJ

megawolf said:


> I still need to learn how to calibrate it and buy a multimiter



If the charger is anywhere near the promised specifications it is a bad idea trying to calibrating it, except if you have a high precision meter (Rater expensive).
A meter like the UT61E is worse than 1.2% on current and the charger is specified as 0.1%.


----------



## kreisl

HKJ said:


> I do not get any CSV files, only the BMP (I am running V1.01).





HKJ said:


> I am testing on a Win7 64 bit computer.





kreisl said:


> column separator is semicolon, and decimal separator is automatically either comma or period depending on your country/OS settings. I can directly open the CSV-file with Excel 2010 (geman) without making use of the Excel Import File wizard.


I freshly installed Win7 64-bit (ENGLISH) this morning —on my machine as parallel OS to my WinXP-SP3 (GEMAN)— and also .NET Framework 4.0 as requirement for running the PC Link Software (PCLS). If PCLS is launched from HDD, then it must be Run as administrator. Only then will it dump 2 files: BMP and CSV, together at the same time.

I could also verify that on an English system the decimal separator is a period (.) whereas on a geman system the decimal separator in the CSV-file becomes a comma (,), automatically.

The live saving is neat. For example, one hits the PCLS 'Save'-button at t=51sec, waits 9sec until t=60sec and then hits the 'Save'-button in the Windows dialog. PCLS will then dump all the data from t=0…60sec, while continuing to log the data (t=0…60…etc sec). It is not necessary to stop the logging ('Stop'-button) prior to saving the BMP/CSV dump.

Hope this helps :thumbsup:


----------



## verdum

kreisl said:


> with new aaa eneloops the difference should be 2mAh max. if it's higher than that and you're puzzled by it then i'd check the calibration and fine tune it. it's the first thing i did when i got my test sample.


If full capacity is near 2000mAh then 2mAh is only 0.1% difference. I doubt it is possible.

upd. sorry 2000mAh is for AA. But anyway having 4 diffferent eneloops in 4 different slots and 2mAh difference is something too good to be true.


----------



## chewy78

megawolf said:


> I still need to learn how to calibrate it and buy a multimiter  can you recomend me one that I can trust, to be honest to calibrate the charger is the only thing that I gonna use it for :shrug: ,


 must be a special kind of stupid lol


----------



## megawolf

chewy78 said:


> must be a special kind of stupid lol



Why? Because I'm going to spend some money on it? and then keep it collecting dust? Just to let you know there is a web site very famous where you can buy and sell used stuff, but thnaks for your help


----------



## SubLGT

megawolf said:


> ...I still need to learn how to calibrate it and buy a multimiter  can you recomend me one that I can trust, to be honest to calibrate the charger...



As mentioned earlier in this thread by HKJ: "If I check something I expect is fairly accurate I uses Fluke 8846A or similar meter with about 10 times better accuracy."


----------



## Anders

I can't get the bluetooth app to work.
I did a firmware update to 1.03 because it didn't work, it didn't help much 

Samsung note 3 Android Version 5
Samsung Galaxy tab S 10.5 Android Version 5.0.2


----------



## kreisl

megawolf, for convenience you'd also need to get some banana-croco cables …

Perhaps most charger users have never done this before but could be facing the task, if they really wanted to play with the User Calibration feature of the MC3000 charger. The general procedure of performing the calibration task is described in the user manual and also demo'ed nicely on youtube. So here, i am only explaining how the multimeter is connected for the current measurement. This method is similar/analogous to HKJ's method of connecting a metering device with the battery in series, in order to measure the battery current.

We'll need a DMM (handheld/portable/desktop/bench/etc, anything with high resolution and reasonable accuracy), DMM leads in form of short charging _cables _(with gold-plated banana plugs on the one end, crocodile alligator clips on the other end), and eventually a short piece of highly conductive low resistance metal. Since you have a DMM, you could check the resistance of the metal piece. Tbh we don't urgently need the metal piece but they may help to reduce the contact resistance between the battery and the charging cable. If you're able to spare it, then spare it and let the (-) battery terminal connect to the end of the red charging cable (=red crocodile clip, in our example) _directly_.








In the above photo my "banana-croco" cables are sourced original/unmodded from a Junsi iCharger retail box. Banana-croco cables are standard packaging items in hobby charger retail boxes and they can also be purchased separately. Ebay or Hobbyking would list them under the search term < charge _leads _>. The leads should be as short as possible for lower resistance. 
One could use anything non-conductive, for example a sheet of dry paper, as insulator. I find a sleeve of unshrunk heat shrink tubing just perfect for our purpose. 
You really want to employ a piece of metal? I tested the metal parts from battery holders. Interestingly they have higher resistance than a nice copper _wire _(_Draht_). 

Thanks to the larger footprint it feels natural, logical to connect the DMM leads near the (-)terminal of the battery where the slider is. First we need to electrically insulate the slider against the (-)battery terminal, so put the sleeve on. Then connect the red cable (DMM "+"positive lead) to the lower end of battery, with or without the addition of that metal thingy. Finally connect the black cable (DMM "-"negative lead) directly to tip of slider.









The red banana plug goes into the "A"-socket of the DMM, and the black banana plug (as always) into the "COM"-socket. On an auto-arranging DMM the correct setting would be the "A"-setting (and not the "mA"-setting!).

Done. You're now ready to measure the battery current externally with your DMM!


----------



## megawolf

SubLGT said:


> As mentioned earlier in this thread by HKJ: "If I check something I expect is fairly accurate I uses Fluke 8846A or similar meter with about 10 times better accuracy."



I was thinking in the Fluke 87-V, but if the factory calibration is better than this one, I better leave it alone, But I gonna buy it or a better one in the future just to play with the eneloops and electric stuff, I don't make a living out of this but its a hobby that I really love.



kreisl said:


> We'll need a DMM (handheld/portable/desktop/bench/etc, anything with high resolution and reasonable accuracy)



Does the Fluke 87-V fall into the reasonable accuracy? if yes I gonna buy it! :santa:


----------



## -Archie-

kreisl said:


> Done. You're now ready to measure the battery current externally with your DMM!


 My measurement harness is a bit different: I use 0.1 Ohm resistor in series with the battery, to measure voltage drop, avoiding contacts & wiring issues. It's made with thin nickel plates glued together with Kapton tape: overall thickness is 0.4mm - easy to fit in between of battery and charger's contact. Also used to monitor the shape of current with oscilloscope...


----------



## verdum

-Archie- said:


> It's made with thin nickel plates glued together with Kapton tape


Is that safe to use kapton for that ?


----------



## fnsooner

Mine arrived!! I always have my stuff delivered to work, so I don't have enough time to mess with it much until tonight and probably won't have time to do a ton until this weekend.

Any hoo, I plugged it in and right at the top of the lcd screen was the option for dummy mode. It made me giggle to read this. So I pushed enter and grabbed four cells that were convenient around my shop and inserted them.

It recognized the 18650 and two 26650s as Li-ion and the AA Eneloop as NiMH and started charging them at .7A. Awesome so far. It is big and definitely passes the eye test.


----------



## verdum

fnsooner said:


> It is big and definitly passes the eye test.


 ha-ha, what is the metodology of making that eye test ?


----------



## HKJ

kreisl said:


> I freshly installed Win7 64-bit (ENGLISH) this morning —on my machine as parallel OS to my WinXP-SP3 (GEMAN)— and also .NET Framework 4.0 as requirement for running the PC Link Software (PCLS). If PCLS is launched from HDD, then it must be Run as administrator. Only then will it dump 2 files: BMP and CSV, together at the same time.



I looked at bit more on it, the problem is not administrator or not, but where it dumps the file. With the bmp file you can select location, but the csv is always dumped in the same directory as the program file.


----------



## fnsooner

verdum said:


> ha-ha, what is the metodology of making that eye test ?



It has nice lines and seems well built. It also doesn't have a bunch of unnecessary lettering all over it. It appears to be a nice, ready for business, contraption. My first impressions are all positive.


Welp, back to work.


----------



## verdum

fnsooner said:


> It has nice lines and seems well built. It also doesn't have a bunch of unnecessary lettering all over it. It appears to be a nice, ready for business, contraption. My first impressions are all positive.


as for me all that opus 3100, liitokala 500, mc3000... looks pretty much similar. except maybe the fact mc3000 is noticeable bigger.


----------



## Gauss163

verdum said:


> as for me all that opus 3100, liitokala 500, mc3000... looks pretty much similar. except maybe the fact mc3000 is noticeable bigger.



It may not be obvious from photos how much larger it is. Here are the numbers (not including power supply).

The MC3000 has 3.1 times the volume of the BT-C3100 or Lii-500.

The MC3000 weighs 2.6 times the C3100 and 2.0 times the Lii-500.


----------



## -Archie-

verdum said:


> Is that safe to use kapton for that ?



Safe? Hmm...  No explosions nor mass poisoning so far...


----------



## verdum

Gauss163 said:


> The MC3000 has 3.1 times the volume of the BT-C3100 or Lii-500.
> The MC3000 weighs 2.6 times the C3100 and 2.0 times the Lii-500.


So that is why MC3000 costs 3 times more


----------



## verdum

-Archie- said:


> Safe? Hmm...  No explosions nor mass poisoning so far...


I meant if it is good isolator to prevent short circuits along with good durability ?


----------



## -Archie-

verdum said:


> I meant if it is good isolator to prevent short circuits along with good durability ?



http://www.dupont.com/products-and-...imide-films/brands/kapton-polyimide-film.html


----------



## Bizill

Sweet. Mine landed in Los Angeles, CA. hopefully less than 2 days to go....


----------



## kreisl

erh.. a little precaution, the PCLS might(!) not be working stably under *Win10*. Afaik the software was not approved for Win10. Of course one could still try to log data under Win10, no harm done, but DO NOT try to update the firmware under Win10. (There are reports of crashing PCLS under Win10, so.)

Do. Not.

you've been warned :devil:


----------



## fnsooner

Hmm, okay. I have two Windows 10 laptops and an Iphone 6. I think I will tinker with this charger using manual controls only and see how far I can go. I’ll download the software, for these devices, when the software is more stable.

Also, the MC3000 will only charge two D cells at the same time.:thinking: I don’t remember this being mentioned before. Maybe I missed it.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

In iOS 9 the MC3000 app isn't working right?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> In iOS 9 the MC3000 app isn't working right?



Is that the latest iPhone OS? I am not familiar with Apple products.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Seems to work, basic functions




The apply doesn't start up in ios9.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> In iOS 9 the MC3000 app isn't working right?



Sorry if my post was confusing. I have not even downloaded the IOS app. I don't know if it is working or not. There has been a lot of information in this thread about the software in general being a little wonky. The info is scattered through out this thread and I can't remember what is good and what is bad. I just received the charger today and just got home from work about an hour ago. I decided I would read the manual and see if I can operate the unit manually first. I am not so impatient that I can't take my time to come to grips with this charger. Bluetooth and computer interaction can wait a few days. I would hate to download something that bricked my iphone or charger and then someone says "didn't you read post 721. It told you not to do that".

It would be nice if the first post could start being updated with a little guidance, e.g., putting the above warning by kreisl in it and what precautions should be followed concerning the different software. Trying to find something in this thread is tough. Maybe a brand new thread should be started and leave this one for the shipping and buying conversations.

I am on page six of the manual. I think I will read through it before I jump into this thing too much.

Oh and BTW, I am liking it so far.


----------



## >PETE<

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I haven't received my MC3000 yet, but downloaded the app and it just closes down when I try to open it. (iPhone 6S Latest iOS)

I'm assuming it shuts down as the Bluetooth connection isn't active, or that's what I hope.


----------



## gyzmo2002

No, the appli had worked in ios7, not sure in ios8 and never in ios9. 

If it doesn't even load, it cannot have a blutooth connection.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



>PETE< said:


> I haven't received my MC3000 yet, but downloaded the app and it just closes down when I try to open it. (iPhone 6S Latest iOS)
> 
> I'm assuming it shuts down as the Bluetooth connection isn't active, or that's what I hope.



Dang you guys. I had a plan. Now I want to download the app to see what happens. I am on IOS 9.

Breathe in, breathe out. Stick to your plan.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> Dang you guys. I had a plan. Now I want to download the app to see what happens. I am on IOS 9.
> 
> Breathe in, breathe out. Stick to your plan.



I was assuming that a purpose of this thread is to talk about issue.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

iOS 8.4 on iPhone 6 Plus here.
The app works fine.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> It would be nice if the first post could start being updated with a little guidance, e.g., putting the above warning by kreisl in it and what precautions should be followed concerning the different software. Trying to find something in this thread is tough. Maybe a brand new thread should be started and leave this one for the shipping and buying.


i'll update my first 3 posts on page 1, no prob.
HKJ will have a brand new thread.
2 threads, should be enough.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> I was assuming that a purpose of this thread is to talk about issue.


I was joking. I was just trying to refocus myself, compartmentalize and take small bites out of this thing.

I look forward to all discussions on this charger.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> iOS 8.4 on iPhone 6 Plus here.
> The app works fine.



So, it is only since ios9 that the apply doesn't load. We will wait for a fix.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Fnsooner, have you tried it on your side? I'm sure you will have the same issue. [emoji12]


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> Sorry if my post was confusing. I have not even downloaded the IOS app. I don't know if it is working or not. There has been a lot of information in this thread about the software in general being a little wonky. The info is scattered through out this thread and I can't remember what is good and what is bad. I just received the charger today and just got home from work about an hour ago. I decided I would read the manual and see if I can operate the unit manually first. I am not so impatient that I can't take my time to come to grips with this charger. Bluetooth and computer interaction can wait a few days. I would hate to download something that bricked my iphone or charger and then someone says "didn't you read post 721. It told you not to do that".
> 
> It would be nice if the first post could start being updated with a little guidance, e.g., putting the above warning by kreisl in it and what precautions should be followed concerning the different software. Trying to find something in this thread is tough. Maybe a brand new thread should be started and leave this one for the shipping and buying conversations.
> 
> I am on page six of the manual. I think I will read through it before I jump into this thing too much.
> 
> Oh and BTW, I am liking it so far.



Let's just agree, you won't brick your iPhone installing an app. Not sure it is even possible to brick any iPhone newer than the 3G with the separate recovery bootloader they use.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I freaking hate how shipments from China go into a black hole for weeks! My MC3000 shipped on Dec 4th and the last update was Dec7th in Hong Kong at an airport. 

Hopefully it hits land in Chicago, that's where I live!

Anybody in the U.S. who ordered from HKE get theirs? I ordered the first day it was available for pre-order!


----------



## fnsooner

Ok, I downloaded the MC3000 app on my iphone 6 IOS 9.2. My bluetooth is turned on on my iphone and when I try to open the app, it starts to open and then it closes and goes to the home screen of the iphone. Evidently the app isn't compatible with IOS9. It also could be operator error.

For me, this really isn't an issue. I am bound and determined to get through most of the simple programming with the manual controls. I am sure SkyRc will get the software right eventually. I am less concerned about the bluetooth operation and more concerned about my inability to update my firmware, seeing that I have only Windows 10 computers. Even that though is not important at the moment. This charger is overkill for most of my needs and like kreisl said this is about having fun with this hobby. It should be fun to see this charger progress. I am glad I am a part of it.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Anybody in the U.S. who ordered from HKE get theirs?!


I ordered from HKE and received mine today. I ordered on Nov 9. My first shipping info was on Dec 4.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Let's just agree, you won't brick your iPhone installing an app. Not sure it is even possible to brick any iPhone newer than the 3G with the separate recovery bootloader they use.


Agreed.


----------



## DBrier

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I got mine today and I can't get the Android app to work on my LG G4. The app installed fine, but won't connect to the charger. The PC Link won't work either, but I'm on Windows 10. I hope that gets fixed soon. The software installs and opens, but it won't connect to the charger.
No connection to my computer or phone.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My MC3000s shipped from Hong Kong on December 4th. The last scan was in Chicago yesterday. Hopefully I will get the units in a couple of days. The last tracking update from USPS stated the following.

"Your item arrived at our USPS facility in CHICAGO, IL 60701 on December 13, 2015 at 2:00 pm. The item is currently in transit to the Destination."


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Anybody in the U.S. who ordered from HKE get theirs?



Dec 1st -- ordered
4th -- shipped
5th -- landed in LA
11th (!) -- delivered to my home in CA


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Anybody in the U.S. who ordered from HKE get theirs? I ordered the first day it was available for pre-order!


Mine: 
Shipped = Dec 4th
Got it = Dec 12th

was 4 days in customs


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yep, that is just great! I freaking ordered early November and still don't have it. Gotta love Chinese shipping!


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Yep, that is just great! I freaking ordered early November and still don't have it. Gotta love Chinese shipping!



Since I started using Amazon and their prime shipping its so hard for me to wait for something more than 2 days, I ordered form HKE on Dec 1st and since I got the tracking number on Dec 4th I was refreshing the the USPS tracking every few minutes for 8 days :sweat:


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Get a delivery tracking app. They check it for you and send push notifications. I use the app called "Deliveries" on IOS.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just hate the seemingly random shipping results from China. Same supplier, same shipping company, earlier shipping date, same location, totally different results!

Love it!


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Got mine from HKE yesterday (14 Dec in Oz). Looks to me like the hard-copy Manual that comes with it is identical to the pdf that has been doing the rounds for a while and which we were told is a "pre-release".


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Get a delivery tracking app. They check it for you and send push notifications. I use the app called "Deliveries" on IOS.



I do have it!!! But it checks every few hours, mine was out for delivery at 9:54am and the app notified me when it was delivered 4 hours later (From processed in customs to delivered)


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I was doing a refresh on 2 eneloops pro (3 years old) and the volts on slot 1 went from 1.23v to 1.02v to 1.24 during the discharge cycle. And the graph show something diferent than the other slot, the refresh cicle is set to defoult C>D>C
slot #1






Slot #4


----------



## PapaLumen

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

That happened with my XX's too using maha c9000 . It seems my xx's are toast. I posted about it on a thread somewhere. How old are your xx's and how many discharges?

*edit* I see you say, 3 yrs old. Similar to mine. I've seen lots of failures of xx's from around that time, me thinks there was a bad batch or that version were just poor... mine were bought from amazon.co.uk.

Can you see what their IR is?

Also, do you have any normal white loops to try? I bet it doesn't happen with them.


----------



## hey_tommy

megawolf said:


> I was thinking in the Fluke 87-V, but if the factory calibration is better than this one, I better leave it alone, But I gonna buy it or a better one in the future just to play with the eneloops and electric stuff, I don't make a living out of this but its a hobby that I really love.
> 
> 
> 
> Does the Fluke 87-V fall into the reasonable accuracy? if yes I gonna buy it! :santa:



Fluke 87-V is definitely reasonable accuracy - it's 0.05%....

HOWEVER...

We're talking $250-400 investment here (depending whether you buy used or new). Spending that much money just so you can calibrate a $100 battery charger seems a bit of an overkill.

My suggestion is this: if you're just starting out with electronics as a hobby, get yourself a cheap multi-meter in the sub-$20 range (google or search CPF, there's plenty on cheap multimeters on both). Play around with it and get a sense of what it's used for, and how you can benefit from it. Once you feel you're getting the hang of it, and another hobby hasn't stolen your attention away, then get something in the $60-100 range. And if some time from then you REALLY get into the electronics game, then you will KNOW when you need a Fluke.

However, if you have the cash to spend, and feel like splurging anyway, by all means... go for the Fluke




The 87-V is THE go-to entry into the professional DMM game.

As for performing a user calibration on the MC3000, forget about it. Unless you're an electric engineer or are studying to be one, you are going to gain absolutely nothing from a user calibration.


----------



## hey_tommy

kreisl said:


> erh.. a little precaution, the PCLS might(!) not be working stably under *Win10*. Afaik the software was not approved for Win10. Of course one could still try to log data under Win10, no harm done, but DO NOT try to update the firmware under Win10. (There are reports of crashing PCLS under Win10, so.)
> 
> Do. Not.
> 
> you've been warned :devil:



I would suggest enabling Windows 7 compatibility mode (right click on the shortcut/.exe, check the "Compatibility" tab) and see if PCLS continues to crash under Win10.

If it seems to run stable, then the brave can try firmware updating - but if you really want to be safe, I'd follow kreisl's advice


----------



## hey_tommy

For those who ordered their MC3000 from GearBest, is there anyone else who shipped using the free expedited shipping (via DHL), and their package is still showing as being stuck in Singapore?

I got my shipping notification on Dec. 5th, and when I check tracking, it still says "Shipment Information Received - SINGAPORE, SINGAPORE", last updated on Dec. 4. Doesn't "Shipment Information Received" simply mean that they printed the shipping label/created the shipment in the online system, but not necessarily submitted the package?

Anyway, I should probably shoot GB an email and ask them what's up...


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



PapaLumen said:


> Can you see what their IR is?
> 
> Also, do you have any normal white loops to try? I bet it doesn't happen with them.



IR Slot 1 = 58mΩ
IR Slot 4 = 223mΩ  
Both were bought together from Amazon US and used together since I got them

Descharge cycles = about 30 or so (they last a good amount of time on my apple mouse)
I'll try brand new white loops tomorrow (AA)

I tried some aaa white loops last night and yep! It didn't happen with any of them (I tried 4) they are about 4 years old


----------



## megawolf

hey_tommy said:


> Fluke 87-V is definitely reasonable accuracy - it's 0.05%....
> 
> HOWEVER...
> 
> We're talking $250-400 investment here (depending whether you buy used or new). Spending that much money just so you can calibrate a $100 battery charger seems a bit of an overkill.
> 
> My suggestion is this: if you're just starting out with electronics as a hobby, get yourself a cheap multi-meter in the sub-$20 range (google or search CPF, there's plenty on cheap multimeters on both). Play around with it and get a sense of what it's used for, and how you can benefit from it. Once you feel you're getting the hang of it, and another hobby hasn't stolen your attention away, then get something in the $60-100 range. And if some time from then you REALLY get into the electronics game, then you will KNOW when you need a Fluke.
> 
> However, if you have the cash to spend, and feel like splurging anyway, by all means... go for the Fluke
> The 87-V is THE go-to entry into the professional DMM game.
> 
> As for performing a user calibration on the MC3000, forget about it. Unless you're an electric engineer or are studying to be one, you are going to gain absolutely nothing from a user calibration.



Thank you so much! No wonder why I love this forum and its community so much. Eneloops and chargers brought me here some years ago and there is an answer for everything! But this charger made me open an account! :thanks:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DBrier said:


> The PC Link won't work either, but I'm on Windows 10. I hope that gets fixed soon. The software installs and opens, but it won't connect to the charger.
> No connection to my computer


It has been re-confirmed today that PCLS has compatibility issues with Win10. In particular, updating the firmware on Win10 is a no-go for now. They are working on a PCLS version with Win10 support, rest assured.

In the meantime you can make sure that your PC Link works fine on the supported systems (WinXP/Win7/Win8):
- Test different USB cables. Really. I mean it.
- Test it on different PCs/laptops (Win7-pc1, Win8-laptop1, WinXP-pc2, Win7-pc3, etc)
- Most importantly, make 100% sure that the USB cable is indeed really properly connected to the device. It can be a challenge, since the USB socket of/in the device is retracted in the casing and hard to connect to, properly.

On a freshly installed Windows system, e.g. Win7, as soon as you connect the mc3k USB cable to the PC, the Win7 will produce a notification in the system tray stating that the USB device has been automatically installed. And when you launch the PCLS, the PCLS should show "USB ON" in its own bottom right.

Point is, all production units have undergone quality checks QC and there should be nothing wrong with the hardware, e.g. the PC Link usb socket, itself. Please report back if you could run PCLS successfully on a different system, non-Win10 system.


----------



## verdum

-Archie- said:


> http://www.dupont.com/products-and-...imide-films/brands/kapton-polyimide-film.html


Thank you. Seems good then.


----------



## morcegolas

hey_tommy said:


> For those who ordered their MC3000 from GearBest, is there anyone else who shipped using the free expedited shipping (via DHL), and their package is still showing as being stuck in Singapore?
> 
> I got my shipping notification on Dec. 5th, and when I check tracking, it still says "Shipment Information Received - SINGAPORE, SINGAPORE", last updated on Dec. 4. Doesn't "Shipment Information Received" simply mean that they printed the shipping label/created the shipment in the online system, but not necessarily submitted the package?
> 
> Anyway, I should probably shoot GB an email and ask them what's up...



I order mine from them with free shipping, just today the tracking number changed from 'The item is pre-advise' to 'The item is at the PostNL sorting center' and shortly after that 'The item is on transport to the country of destination'. Since day 8/12 that is was showing 'The item is pre-advise', so it's all a matter of time. My longest wait time is yet to come, when the package arrive to customs, were in Portugal I know that they will give an headache, they are extremely slow. :/


----------



## Viking

Mine was shipped via free shipping from gearbest dec. 7th.
Status at http://www.postnl.post/tracktrace has since dec. 10th been "pre-advised"
Order status at gearbest is "Shipped out"


----------



## fnsooner

Man, this thing stays cool. I charged a couple of D cells up at 3A, just for grins, and the MC3000 is barely even getting warm. I have yet to even get the cooling fan to start up.


----------



## kreisl

Things get warm and fast during *discharge*. On my test unit, SysTemp displays up to *83°C* (with fan on) when discharging four fully charged 18650's at 4×(-1.00A). And one can feel the hot air coming out of the grille. In contrast, at -5 Watts total discharge power, discharging four fully charged Eneloop's at 4x(-1.00A) maxes out at *66°C* SysTemp (with fan off) or 47…50°C (with fan set to 50°C) in room of 20°C room temperature.

I will include this kind of info/data in my leview. I am still gathering data from tests, e.g. running CYCLE programs. Really enjoyable product imho.


----------



## billcushman

The two MC3000s I ordered from HKE were both shipped on Dec 4. One went thru Chicago and shows to be delivered by USPS today. The other shows processed by Hong Kong center on Dec 7,


----------



## HKJ

The charger can handle both large and small batteries with the correct current:


----------



## retrocon

kreisl said:


> but DO NOT try to update the firmware under Win10. (There are reports of crashing PCLS under Win10, so.)
> 
> Do. Not.
> 
> you've been warned :devil:



Too late, already did it. 

Since this isn't a software thread, i'll just say that i got it to work, even with error dialogs, but it was persistence, not doing anything in particular. Really, i just tried the ol' redownload, unpack again, try another unpacking tool (since RARs are rare around here), and clicking through "err" dialogs once i finally figured out that the charger wasn't going to be ruined if it went blank screen and i aborted the update because of a really long wait. CSVs work fine, no bitmaps, though. some window weirdness.


----------



## retrocon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



>PETE< said:


> I haven't received my MC3000 yet, but downloaded the app and it just closes down when I try to open it. (iPhone 6S Latest iOS)
> 
> I'm assuming it shuts down as the Bluetooth connection isn't active, or that's what I hope.



i'm on 6s and iOS 9.2, the app seems to close down, but i noticed it remains a "black screen of death" in the background of the iPhone. So it does not work. The MC3000 starts up, the blue bluetooth light goes on for a few seconds, no connection ever happens, tried several "orders," like phone->charger, charger->phone, clicking the more devices in bluetooth. i think we might be out of luck until an upgrade.


----------



## retrocon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> It has been re-confirmed today that PCLS has compatibility issues with Win10. In particular, updating the firmware on Win10 is a no-go for now. They are working on a PCLS version with Win10 support, rest assured.



Hmm... definite problems there, not sure why clicking through the "err" dialogs eventually landed a good update (hopefully good, the charger is working and shows new firmware in the configuration). Maybe a USB driver error in the app, with nondestructive errors, so when i stepped through the errors, execution continued, i got lucky?

Question on the charger, even before the update (and still, after), if i try some old NIMH energizer AAAs, and it shows a voltage value, i think it was .7ish, so pretty low. Then when charging seems to start, it doesn't, and it say's "connection breaking" for that slot I can take these same cells, and they seem to charge fine on a CT-3400. Suspect the batteries are bad, and i haven't done any specific testing. But the "connection breaking" error wasn't very descriptive. When i have time, i'll test the batteries just for fun, since i'm disposing of all my old energizers and rayovacs and replacing with eneloops, among other things. Just wondering if anyone else has seen the connection breaking message?


----------



## Anders

Hi there.
I am using Win 10 and everything is working properly even after updating to version 1.03.
The .bmp and .CSV files is also there when open as admin.

But I did not see the warnings by kreisl until after the update AND the screen was frozen during the process so wait with updating the firmware until they/kreisl announce it work just fine with Win 10.

Now I am just waiting for the Android App to work properly and according to their support they are working with the issue.

"We are aware the problem of the APP and our engineers are working on it right now.
Sorry for the inconvenience caused."

Anders


----------



## kreisl

Nice photo HKJ! I'll copy your idea and will connect my 10180's this way too, i.e. the dummy battery touching the slider. Beautiful solution.

I have the feeling that this photo will be included in your review?


----------



## HKJ

kreisl said:


> Nice photo HKJ! I'll copy your idea and will connect my 10180's this way too, i.e. the dummy battery touching the slider. Beautiful solution.



The diameter of the spacer is a bit to large for use with the small cell, a spacer with smaller diameter would be much better.



kreisl said:


> I have the feeling that this photo will be included in your review?



I have not put it in yet, but maybe.


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> Nice photo HKJ! I'll copy your idea and will connect my 10180's this way too, i.e. the dummy battery touching the slider. Beautiful solution.



I'm puzzled by your remark, isn't that what everybody does? (or something analogous?). Were you doing it some other way?


----------



## billcushman

megawolf, if you spend just a little more you can get the Fluke 289. It has awesome capability plus the DCV accuracy is .025%. I feel it is a much better value than the 87-V although it costs more.



hey_tommy said:


> Fluke 87-V is definitely reasonable accuracy - it's 0.05%....
> 
> HOWEVER...
> 
> We're talking $250-400 investment here (depending whether you buy used or new). Spending that much money just so you can calibrate a $100 battery charger seems a bit of an overkill.
> 
> My suggestion is this: if you're just starting out with electronics as a hobby, get yourself a cheap multi-meter in the sub-$20 range (google or search CPF, there's plenty on cheap multimeters on both). Play around with it and get a sense of what it's used for, and how you can benefit from it. Once you feel you're getting the hang of it, and another hobby hasn't stolen your attention away, then get something in the $60-100 range. And if some time from then you REALLY get into the electronics game, then you will KNOW when you need a Fluke.
> 
> However, if you have the cash to spend, and feel like splurging anyway, by all means... go for the Fluke
> The 87-V is THE go-to entry into the professional DMM game.
> 
> As for performing a user calibration on the MC3000, forget about it. Unless you're an electric engineer or are studying to be one, you are going to gain absolutely nothing from a user calibration.


----------



## Gauss163

billcushman said:


> If you spend just a little more you can get the Fluke 289...



Which would be even more overkill. Even the claimed MC3000 accuracy is overkill for 99.9% of hobbyists. Serious question to those contemplating such: what are you doing that you think requires such high accuracy in a consumer-grade charger?


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> Were you doing it some other way?


i placed dummy and battery in reverse order = battery touching the slider


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> Things get warm and fast during *discharge*. On my test unit, SysTemp displays up to *83°C* when discharging four (fully charged) 18650's at 4×(-1.00A).



Are the voltage and current still within spec at those high temps?


----------



## billcushman

Gauss163 said:


> Which would be even more overkill. Even the claimed MC3000 accuracy is overkill for 99.9% of hobbyists. Serious question to those contemplating such: what are you doing that you think requires such high accuracy in a consumer-grade charger?



megawolf, I posed the hey_tommy complete reply so you could consider just getting a cheap Multimeter. But if you decide to spend $$$$ for the 87-V, I suggested that you go ahead and spend a little more for the 289 for its huge capability. So my choice would be cheap Multimeter or Fluke 289. The Fluke 289 is probably the most capable portable Multimeter available. If you like nice instruments and have the money available the 289 is a great value for all it does.


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> Are the voltage and current still within spec at those high temps?


yes


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> i placed dummy and battery in reverse order = battery touching the slider



Sounds like it is about time for a "Dummy cells for dummies" thread!


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> yes



Presumably that means: "yes, I verified it". Great. Looking forward to seeing your verification of calibration at high temp. Esp. the high-temp gloves!


----------



## Minimoog

I have one of these chargers on the way now - I am looking forwards to receiving it! I have quite a few different lithium batteries, some require 4.3 or 4.35 Volts charge. Is it possible to adjust the charge voltage to these points or is it fixed at 4.2? Not a problem if it is - I was just interested as it would be nice to fully charge the batteries for some lights.


----------



## -Archie-

You haven't tried to read device specification before ordering?


----------



## HKJ

billcushman said:


> megawolf, if you spend just a little more you can get the Fluke 289. It has awesome capability plus the DCV accuracy is .025%. I feel it is a much better value than the 87-V although it costs more.



When you start spending money on high end DMM's, it is always interesting to look at the next step. A Keysight 34460A is not that much more than a Fluke 289, but is a much better meter for bench use and next step the 34461A is even better.


----------



## HKJ

Minimoog said:


> I have one of these chargers on the way now - I am looking forwards to receiving it! I have quite a few different lithium batteries, some require 4.3 or 4.35 Volts charge. Is it possible to adjust the charge voltage to these points or is it fixed at 4.2? Not a problem if it is - I was just interested as it would be nice to fully charge the batteries for some lights.



I am going to have the longest list of supported chemistries I have ever had for a charger in my review:


----------



## -Archie-

HKJ said:


> When you start spending money on high end DMM's, it is always interesting to look at the next step. A Keysight 34460A is not that much more than a Fluke 289, but is a much better meter for bench use and next step the 34461A is even better.



...and then, one day you'll look at your Fluke 5440A or Advantest R6245 sitting on your desk, and start searching for someting better...


----------



## -Archie-

HKJ said:


> I am going to have the longest list of supported chemistries I have ever had for a charger in my review:



There's a typo in NiZn and RAM voltages.


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> Presumably that means: "yes, I verified it". Great. Looking forward to seeing your verification of calibration at high temp. Esp. the high-temp gloves!



yes i verified it.


----------



## HKJ

-Archie- said:


> There's a typo in NiZn and RAM voltages.



Thanks, the NiZn is fixed, but I cannot find any data saying otherwise for RAM.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Off topic of course but if I wanted to buy a DMM that I could basically use for the next 15+ years and wanted to not outgrow it if I decided to get more in depth into electronics, what would you guy suggest? I'm a 35yr old Chemical Engineer working as an Engineering Manager so this isn't really for work use. 

Right now I mess with Batteries, resistors, Flashlights, wiring up household electronics, 110v, gasoline generators, RJ45 and coax connections, some hot air surface mount soldering repairs, fixing broken electronics, automotive wiring, etc.

I know an ultra high end DMM would be overkill but I currently have a $50-$75 Tenma that is starting to get flakey on me and I would rather invest in a nice DMM that I can keep and take care of than get another low end one that will eventually die again.

Money really isn't a concern but I don't want to be stupid and buy an ultra high end device and use 1% of its functionality.

Thanks!


----------



## -Archie-

HKJ said:


> Thanks, the NiZn is fixed, but I cannot find any data saying otherwise for RAM.


Standard end-of-charge voltage is 1.65 V, and while "de jure" nominal voltage is typically omitted in datasheets, discharge curve of 1.55 to 0.8 Volt makes it obviously 1.175 V. It's up to you to round it up or down to 1,17 or 1,18 V according to your taste. 

BTW, I'd like to take the opportunity and say "Thanks!" for your tremendous collection of battery-related reviews. Excellent and highly useful!


----------



## HKJ

-Archie- said:


> Standard end-of-charge voltage is 1.65 V, and while "de jure" nominal voltage is typically omitted in datasheets, discharge curve of 1.55 to 0.8 Volt makes it obviously 1.175 V. It's up to you to round it up or down to 1,17 or 1,18 V according to your taste.



If I had to use that value as nominal voltage, what would I then use for normal Alkaline batteries? They also has the same low output voltage but is always rated as 1.5 volt.


----------



## Minimoog

-Archie- said:


> You haven't tried to read device specification before ordering?



I only managed to find supported chemistries, not voltage ranges. I know that the information is out there but I wasn't able to find everything. 


HKJ said:


> I am going to have the longest list of supported chemistries I have ever had for a charger in my review:



Thank you - and I look forward very much to your review.


----------



## megawolf

billcushman said:


> megawolf, if you spend just a little more you can get the Fluke 289. It has awesome capability plus the DCV accuracy is .025%. I feel it is a much better value than the 87-V although it costs more.



I'll keep that into consideration for the future (is already in my wishlist), for now I ended buying a UT61E to learn how to use it so if I break it for misuse it wont hurt that much, once I learn to use and enjoy it so much I'll buy a better one to please my eyes with numbers and measurements, in my case I was going to pay up to $200 for this charger (is overkill for my eneloops) but is such a nice thing to have and play with it (sometimes adults need toys too), so for me it came with a free DMM and still some money left to buy eneloops. :thumbsup:


----------



## -Archie-

HKJ said:


> If I had to use that value as nominal voltage, what would I then use for normal Alkaline batteries? They also has the same low output voltage but is always rated as 1.5 volt.



Disposable single-use batteries are different story with its own marketing traditions: most manufacturers rarely even bother to specify the capacity. Speaking about rechargeables - AFAIK, two approaches are used: for chemistries with flat discharge curve - the average voltage of 'plateau' (e.g. NiCd, NiMH), and for chemistries with steady falling curve - average of initial and EOD voltages (e.g. Lithium, NiZn). As RAM belongs to the latter kind, it seems more logical to use the same characterization method, isn't it?


----------



## HKJ

-Archie- said:


> Disposable single-use batteries are different story with its own marketing traditions: most manufacturers rarely even bother to specify the capacity. Speaking about rechargeables - AFAIK, two approaches are used: for chemistries with flat discharge curve - the average voltage of 'plateau' (e.g. NiCd, NiMH), and for chemistries with steady falling curve - average of initial and EOD voltages (e.g. Lithium, NiZn). As RAM belongs to the latter kind, it seems more logical to use the same characterization method, isn't it?



Yes and no, because they basically are alkaline batteries, it is also obvious to use the alkaline specification.
I found a paper from Rayovac where they very diplomatic says: "Nominal No-Load Voltage: 1.5V DC".


----------



## pfisto

Good afternoon,
Ok so I admit I am a not at a level of many people on this forum but I do have a nice collection of stock and a few modded lights. So I took the plung and bought the MC3000. But I have to admit I am a bit confused. The only batteries I have are 18650, rc123 and some enalops and all I want to do is put a good charge on these I would like to see somewhere a for dummies type directions to use this monster of a charger???
Thanks In advance


kreisl said:


> Hi,
> yes it can charge four 26650's at the same time, e.g. at 4×3.00A charging rate ("12 amps"!!!). Here are some possible arrangements:
> 
> slot1/slot2/slot3/slot4
> 26650/26650/26650/26650
> 32650/26650/32650/26650
> 32650/26650/26650/32650
> 
> Same with C and D cells, since they have similar diameter to 26650 and 32650, see photos in an earlier post:
> 
> slot1/slot2/slot3/slot4
> C/C/C/C
> D/C/D/C
> D/C/C/D
> 
> Yes, it also has auto detect. This particular UI mode is called Dummy Mode. It was an UI addition inspired by Fernando. :thumbsup:


----------



## -Archie-

HKJ said:


> Yes and no, because they basically are alkaline batteries, it is also obvious to use the alkaline specification.


I don't think so: disposable conventions are not applicable here. Non-rechargeable lithium batteries are still lithium, too - but for their rechargeable counterparts, standard definition of nominal voltage is used.

But I really like that great "Nominal No-Load Voltage" term!


----------



## megawolf

I have a couple of requests for the future "firmware upgrade" *If possible*

1- In dummy mode be able to select the default charging current, I charge mine at 1A so the only thing to do is press enter.
2- Be able to select how many beeps when a battery is fully charged, because it beeps 10 times per slot that means 40 beepsoo: when charging a set of four, I can turn it off but I would like it to beep once or twice.


----------



## -Archie-

megawolf said:


> 2- Be able to select how many beeps when a battery is fully charged, because it beeps 10 times per slot that means 40 beepsoo: when charging a set of four, I can turn it off but I would like it to beep once or twice.



And customisable ringtones for me, please! :laughing:


----------



## megawolf

-Archie- said:


> And customisable ringtones for me, please! :laughing:



Well you can already select 16 different tones


----------



## kreisl

My old prototype test samples emitted ringtones no kidding . Tunes were good but the volume was at an obnoxious level. Apparently they reduced the volume level and replaced the tunes with low profile beeps and personally i am fine with their choice. I know that the iCharger has a different kind of customization of audio: Key stroke {ON|OFF}, Buzzer {ON|OFF}, Completion {5×|3min|Always|OFF}, but i wouldn't even know what 'Buzzer' means or 'Completion:Always'. Confusing!


----------



## megawolf

kreisl said:


> The Dummy mode goes back to Ferdinando's idea. So you're suggesting that somewhere in the UI, for example in GSV, the user should be allowed to change the default 0.7A preset to a newly defined preset, i.e. to program the charging current and save it globally for the Dummy Mode? I understand the purpose. Basically that's like creating a program with 1.0A charging current, just this time in GSV instead of in SPV as usual. But imo that's what Advanced/Simple Modes are there for!
> 
> Btw i am sure that the maker already considered the possibility and then decided to keep it simple, and i like the way it is. Don't be sad, it is thinkable that your 2 suggestions will be realized if there is a change of heart one day in future.



Yep, now that I think better at least I can turn the beeps off and trickle charge off, so I don't have to worry about knowing when the charger is done so it don't overcharge my cells, man this thing has so many options :kiss:!


----------



## PapaLumen

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



megawolf said:


> IR Slot 1 = 58mΩ
> IR Slot 4 = 223mΩ
> Both were bought together from Amazon US and used together since I got them
> 
> Descharge cycles = about 30 or so (they last a good amount of time on my apple mouse)
> I'll try brand new white loops tomorrow (AA)
> 
> I tried some aaa white loops last night and yep! It didn't happen with any of them (I tried 4) they are about 4 years old



Yep, I would guess it's the batts then. Strange behavior for sure. Have been thinking about getting some new pro's but not if they are gonna do this after 30 charges  When I ran a break-in on them one refused to discharge on the maha c9000 the others did and came back with ~2400mah. So still have their capacity but unusual behavior, especially under high drain, prob not so much of a problem in a mouse.


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> So you're suggesting that somewhere in the UI, for example in GSV, the user should be allowed to change the default 0.7A preset to a newly defined preset, i.e. to program the charging current and save it globally for the Dummy Mode?



The Dummy Mode is not configurable at all? Ouch.

Ideally, in a true DreamCharger, you could write programs that fix some parameters, but prompt for others, so you could implement a full spectrum of programs, from beginner to expert. Oh for an open-source charger so we can break free from the chains of constrained UIs.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just got home and looked. My Tenma DMM is a 72-6202, looks like it was $180 way back when I bought it. 

Maybe it isn't as crappy as I was thinking. 

http://datasheet.octopart.com/72-6202-Tenma-datasheet-13524030.pdf


----------



## megawolf

kreisl said:


> My old prototype test samples emitted ringtones no kidding .


 LOL can't imagine myself listening to the ringtones and deciding which one I like better when my cells are charged


----------



## LiteTheWay

How about Dummy 1 and Dummy 2 with Dummy 2 being customizable? I think that having a non-fiddleable dummy mode is a good idea (ie., Dummy 1) but maybe a minimally modifiable (current default) changeable might help some users.

Maybe I have not got in to it enough yet but I would also find AUTO selectable pre-set programs for common batteries helpful eg. the sorts of things you can just select through on the Maha 9000




kreisl said:


> My old prototype test samples emitted ringtones no kidding . Tunes were good but the volume was at an obnoxious level. Apparently they reduced the volume level and replaced the tunes with low profile beeps and personally i am fine with their choice. I know that the iCharger has a different kind of customization of audio: Key stroke {ON|OFF}, Buzzer {ON|OFF}, Completion {5×|3min|Always|OFF}, but i wouldn't even know what 'Buzzer' means or 'Completion:Always'. Confusing!
> 
> The Dummy mode goes back to Ferdinando's idea. So you're suggesting that somewhere in the UI, for example in GSV, the user should be allowed to change the default 0.7A preset to a newly defined preset, i.e. to program the charging current and save it globally for the Dummy Mode? I understand the purpose. Basically that's like creating a program with 1.0A charging current, just this time in GSV instead of in SPV as usual. But imo that's what Advanced/Simple Modes are there for!
> 
> Btw i am sure that the maker already considered the possibility and then decided to keep it simple, and i like the way it is. Don't be sad, it is thinkable that your 2 suggestions will be realized if there is a change of heart one day in future.


----------



## fnsooner

The Dummy mode on mine has memory. It appears to work as long as I use the same chemistry in a particular slot. I will continue to test this.


----------



## Sharkie

hey_tommy said:


> For those who ordered their MC3000 from GearBest, is there anyone else who shipped using the free expedited shipping (via DHL), and their package is still showing as being stuck in Singapore?
> 
> I got my shipping notification on Dec. 5th, and when I check tracking, it still says "Shipment Information Received - SINGAPORE, SINGAPORE", last updated on Dec. 4. Doesn't "Shipment Information Received" simply mean that they printed the shipping label/created the shipment in the online system, but not necessarily submitted the package?
> 
> Anyway, I should probably shoot GB an email and ask them what's up...



I ordered november from GB. It did show déc 4 on GB with a DHL number and nothing happened.

Then on déc 13 it was picked up by DHL in Singapore and delivered in Montreal Canada today déc 15. I chose the free expedited shopping.

It's here and starter a cycle on two nimh battery.


----------



## fnsooner

Here is a pic of the MC3000 compared to the Maha MH C808M and the Fenix ARE-C2.


----------



## DBrier

More interesting testing with apps. My LG G4 can't seem to do much monitoring, but it does connect in an odd way. I can end the charge cycle, but not much else. Just as an experiment, I loaded the app on my old Samsung S4 I have laying around it works fine. Hopefully the Android app gets some updates soon, but it's' good to know it's a solvable software issue, not hardware.

I don't have anything but Win10 here at home, so I might take it work and try it with my Win7 computer to see what happens. My computer does connect (you can hear the connect sound) but it otherwise seems dead.


----------



## Mr Floppy

HKJ said:


> The charger can handle both large and small batteries with the correct current:



Oh I'm interested in the spacer. I have a heap of 10180 cells. What's the spacer? What current does it do?


----------



## BVH

I love my 34461A! Still under a year old and well within 1-year cal period. I love having a truly accurate bench meter.



HKJ said:


> When you start spending money on high end DMM's, it is always interesting to look at the next step. A Keysight 34460A is not that much more than a Fluke 289, but is a much better meter for bench use and next step the 34461A is even better.


----------



## vk4akp

Got mine yesterday from HKequipment. 
Shipped on the 2nd arrived on the 15th so not quiet the max 10 days indicated but still good considering the size and from HK. (HK and China usually slow and often lost to Australia!)  

Interesting that I was not notified of it being shipped via Email at all. I happened to check my account and saw it listed as shipped. 
Tracking was useless on Aust Post. Site just says "Item not track-able" (What does this mean with a "?"). 
Yet 17Track showed it delivered! So I hot footed it home and sure enough it was there!  

Was very surprised at the size of the box. 
Perfectly wrapped by HKequip, Even the retail box survived with little to no wrinkles!  
The box is a beautiful piece of artwork. Very colourful! 
The build quality of the actual charger is amazing. And design very sexy. 
My only criticizum is the wobbly plastic button covers that are all joined together and wobble together. That comes across to me as cheap. But the rest is excellent build quality. 

I have a lot to learn yet as to what to set for the different battery types. 
But I have had a quick play with a LiIon AAA Trustfire TR10440 600mAh & a Varta NiMh AA Ready2Use 2100mAh. 
Tried a Discharge and a Charge to see capacity. Seems to work. 

The PC software just doesn't do anything. 
Driver installed but nothing seems to work within the software. 
If you hit check for firmware updates it just says checking forever and does nothing for example. 

The Bluetooth and Android App work, but the second the screen blanks (screen saver / sleep) the Bluetooth connection goes all wonky and drops out. 
Multiple reboots of the tablet, turning Bluetooth on and off on the tablet etc all achieve nothing most of the time. 
Eventually if you keep flicking Bluetooth off on the tablet the charger eventually reconnects some times. 
So a lot of work needed there. 

However I have faith that the company will put more time into the software and make it a lot better. 
I hope they consider open sourcing some of the details so others can help with coding for it. ???
I also hope to see Bluetooth supported on the PC software as most laptops etc have Bluetooth and the cable is a pain. 

I'll upload pictures etc as I get time over the coming weekend hopefully. 

.-.-.


----------



## B-2Admirer

HKJ said:


> I am going to have the longest list of supported chemistries I have ever had for a charger in my review:


Is Lithium-Manganese really 3.6 V? The only type of rechargeable LiMn cell I know (or was able to find any info about) is Li/Al-MnO2​ (Li-Al Alloy-Manganese Dioxide/Organic Electrolyte, button cells prefixed by ML). According to this datasheet for maxell ML2032 their nominal voltage is 3 V and this now-defunct page lists the charge voltage as "2.8~3.2 V".

I'm also curious as to how it charges RAM cells. I always thought constant current was unsuitable for that, with pulsating (or even asymmetric) current being preferable.


----------



## -Archie-

B-2Admirer said:


> Is Lithium-Manganese really 3.6 V? The only type of rechargeable LiMn cell I know (or was able to find any info about) is Li/Al-MnO2​ (Li-Al Alloy-Manganese Dioxide/Organic Electrolyte, button cells prefixed by ML). According to this datasheet for maxell ML2032 their nominal voltage is 3 V and this now-defunct page lists the charge voltage as "2.8~3.2 V".



In general, 'manganese" is referred to the LiNiMnCoO2/LiMn2O4 (spinel) chemistry, with essentially the same voltages as Lithium-Cobalt ones. It's also known as IMR (where 'M' is for manganese BTW), Sony's 'Konion' trademark, etc.



> I'm also curious as to how it charges RAM cells. I always thought constant current was unsuitable for that, with pulsating (or even asymmetric) current being preferable.



That's correct. For example, information from bq2902 RAM Charge/Discharge controller datasheet:

_The charge current is pulsed from the internal clock at approximately a 80Hz rate on the BAT1P pin. The bq2902 pulse charges the battery for approximately 10ms of every 12.5ms, when conditions warrant. The bq2902 measures the open-circuit voltage (VOCV) of each battery cell during the idle period. If a single-cell potential of any battery is above the maximum open-circuit voltage (VMAX = 1.63V ±3%), the following pulses are skipped until all cell potentials fall below the VMAX limit. Charging is terminated when the average charge rate falls below approximately 3% of the maximum charge rate._


----------



## HKJ

B-2Admirer said:


> Is Lithium-Manganese really 3.6 V? The only type of rechargeable LiMn cell I know (or was able to find any info about) is Li/Al-MnO2​ (Li-Al Alloy-Manganese Dioxide/Organic Electrolyte, button cells prefixed by ML). According to this datasheet for maxell ML2032 their nominal voltage is 3 V and this now-defunct page lists the charge voltage as "2.8~3.2 V".



The type called IMR is, you can see some of the common LiIon chemistries here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion



B-2Admirer said:


> I'm also curious as to how it charges RAM cells. I always thought constant current was unsuitable for that, with pulsating (or even asymmetric) current being preferable.



They can be charger with CC/CV or with pulsing.


----------



## B-2Admirer

HKJ said:


> They can be charger with CC/CV or with pulsing.


And how is it done in the MC3000 charger? CC/CV, I presume?


----------



## -Archie-

Meanwhile, on Russian forum one MC3000 user reported that included power supply heavily overheated during 4*1A charge, and completely died on 4*1.5A charge. The device itself survived, luckily...


----------



## kreisl

-Archie- said:


> Meanwhile, on Russian forum one MC3000 user reported that included power supply heavily overheated during 4*1A charge, and completely died on 4*1.5A charge. The device itself survived, luckily...



The power supply is originally a separate product and it's been on the market for quite a while without problems. Maybe he was unlucky and somehow had a faulty adapter to begin with?

I've been doing non-stop 24/7 CYCLE operation (Liion, Eneloop) with 1-2A charge rates and -1A discharge rates in all 4 slots, i.e. full load. I don't experience any overheating of the power supply!


----------



## HKJ

B-2Admirer said:


> And how is it done in the MC3000 charger? CC/CV, I presume?



I would expect CC/CV, but I have not tested it.


----------



## -Archie-

kreisl said:


> The power supply is originally a separate product and it's been on the market for quite a while without problems. Maybe he was unlucky and somehow had a faulty adapter to begin with?



Seems so...


----------



## -Archie-

HKJ said:


> I would expect CC/CV,



OMG, why? This charger does have powerful hardware & firmware resources to implement proper mode with zero-current voltage sense. I see no reasons to use dumb CC/CV instead...


----------



## HKJ

-Archie- said:


> OMG, why? This charger does have powerful hardware & firmware resources to implement proper mode with zero-current voltage sense. I see no reasons to use dumb CC/CV instead...



It was what I would expect, because the charger has the CC/CV algorithm implemented and adding one extra battery type is fairly simple, compared to using time to implement another algorithm for a seldom used battery type and CC/CV is a legal charge option for RAM.


----------



## -Archie-

Slow and inefficient. It's the same like if they decide to use 15-hour timer-controlled charge for NiCd/NiMH instead of smart algorithms. But let's see how actually it's implemented in reality...


----------



## vk4akp

OK. So I've had a little more time to play with it tonight. 
Some things I've noticed. 

I can't get any higher then 700mA on charging and discharging with a single AA NiMh inserted.  
I have tried setting 1Amp and 1100mA no go. 
Peaks at under 700mA

To keep Bluetooth connected you have to turn off the screen saver / sleep mode of the tablet. 
Other apps like Google Maps for example turn this off automatically from within the App. 
So this is something that needs to be added to the MC3000 App. 
Once you get a Bluetooth dropout it can take 10-20 minuets or more flicking things on and off before you finally get a reconnect. 
I believe the charger get's confused. Often you can get the Blue LED and the tablet says connected, however the App says no data / restart. 
You restart and the connection drops out and you are back to square one again. 

The corners of a tablet or phone, as specially the cheaper ones are not all that great with the touch screen side of things. 
The config star in the App and the stop all slots button are far to close to each other. And the corner is a terrible place for them. 
It can take a lot of attempts (10+) to try and get into the config menu due to this and in the end you often stop all slots in the mean time by mistake which means starting from scratch.  

.-.-.


----------



## kreisl

vk4akp said:


> I can't get any higher then 700mA on charging and discharging with a single AA NiMh inserted.
> I have tried setting 1Amp and 1100mA no go.
> Peaks at under 700mA


Maybe you're not operating the device correctly, maybe the battery has too high resistance. With so little information provided...etc


----------



## B-2Admirer

-Archie- said:


> Slow and ineffective. It's the same like if they decide to use 15-hour timer-controlled charge for NiCd/NiMH instead of smart algorithms. But let's see how actually it's implemented in reality...


Do you perhaps mean _inefficient_? _Ineffective_ would mean the cell never reaching the Charged stage. :fail:

I remember reading that constant current was bad for alkalines (RAM = Rechargeable Alkaline Manganese), it basically causes irreversible changes in the cell structure much faster than pulsating/asymmetric current.


----------



## vk4akp

kreisl said:


> Maybe you're not operating the device correctly, maybe the battery has too high resistance. With so little information provided...etc




What information would you like?

Current test battery is a Varta NiMh 2100mAh AA. 
Bat Resistance 604 milli Ohm
Charger settings are ...
Battery Number 2
Battery Type NiMh
Charge Mode - CHARGE
Battery Capacity 2100
CHarge Current 1100
End Charge Voltage 1650
End charge current 10
Negative Voltage Increment 1
Battery Eddy Current "Not Set"
Keep Charging Voltage 1350
Battery Temp protection 40 deg C
Charge Time Protect 240

Charger is SkyRC MC3000 !!! 
Power is Australian Mains 240VAC 50Hz. 
I am located Lat... Long... 
For dinner I had BBQ Pork Chops. 
My favorite colour is Orange. 
I believe in God but I'm not sure why... 

Hopefully I've covered enough to solve the low current mystery this time.  

.-.-.


----------



## kreisl

vk4akp said:


> Current test battery is a Varta NiMh 2100mAh AA.
> Bat Resistance 604 milli Ohm


Varta battery?? The charger should have issued an error message right off the batt pun intended. 
Check the manual last pages, chapter on error messages. 
I'll ask Sky to lower the threshold for Varta batteries. 

In the Maha MH-C9000 the batteries would not even be tried to charge or discharge. HI6H message right away lulz

But tanks for your thrust in geman made batteries


----------



## OneTreeHill

Hi folks. I'm new to among you. First, i need a good and fast nimh charger( for eneloop batteries). For those jobs i prefer the PowerEx MH-C9000. And secondary need average universal charger.I think this product: Nite Core D4.


And now i see SKYRC MC3000. This product meet all my needs? What would you advise me?


----------



## vk4akp

Well actually I should have mentioned that that Resistance measurement I'm giving you is for a current run on it in Discharge mode. 
I'm discharging it at 1000mA but charger is only drawing 520mA by the Android App. (And the LCD). 
Once flat I'll try a charge cycle again and see if I get a different initial resistance. 
The Varta Ready2Use batteries were the only commonly ones available in Woolworths supermarkets here a few years back. 
I admit these are not new cells and many have become EOL already for me. 
But I'm not game to put decent batteries in it yet until I understand what I am doing better. 

I now mainly buy Eneloop's and the cheap Aldi batteries. (Active Energy??). 

So are you thinking that *IF* I use a newer battery with less resistance the charger might kick up the current a to what my actual settings are?

.-.-.


----------



## kreisl

vk4akp said:


> *IF* I use a newer battery with less resistance the charger might kick up the current a to what my actual settings are?







​


----------



## HKJ

OneTreeHill said:


> Hi folks. I'm new to among you. First, i need a good and fast nimh charger( for eneloop batteries). For those jobs i prefer the PowerEx MH-C9000. And secondary need average universal charger.I think this product: Nite Core D4.
> 
> 
> And now i see SKYRC MC3000. This product meet all my needs? What would you advise me?



MC3000 will do much more, the main issue for some people will be how to use it. It can be a bit hard to get started on.


----------



## fnsooner

vk4akp said:


> OK. So I've had a little more time to play with it tonight.
> Some things I've noticed.
> 
> I can't get any higher then 700mA on charging and discharging with a single AA NiMh inserted.



I had this same problem until I realized that I had to change the charge rate within a few seconds of inserting the battery.


----------



## hey_tommy

Sharkie said:


> I ordered november from GB. It did show déc 4 on GB with a DHL number and nothing happened.
> 
> Then on déc 13 it was picked up by DHL in Singapore and delivered in Montreal Canada today déc 15. I chose the free expedited shopping.
> 
> It's here and starter a cycle on two nimh battery.



Thanks Sharkie - I just checked, and mine is now finally showing as being picked up as of yesterday, and has left Singapore yesterday - crossing fingers!

What did DHL end up charging you for duty & brokerage? I'm in Toronto, so it'd probably be the same for me...


Thx


----------



## -Archie-

B-2Admirer said:


> Do you perhaps mean _inefficient_?


Yes, thanks for correction.



> I remember reading that constant current was bad for alkalines (RAM = Rechargeable Alkaline Manganese), it basically causes irreversible changes in the cell structure much faster than pulsating/asymmetric current.



It was discovered very early, maybe even in K. Kordech works, if I remember correctly...


----------



## Sharkie

hey_tommy said:


> Thanks Sharkie - I just checked, and mine is now finally showing as being picked up as of yesterday, and has left Singapore yesterday - crossing fingers!
> 
> What did DHL end up charging you for duty & brokerage? I'm in Toronto, so it'd probably be the same for me...
> 
> 
> Thx



Hi Tommy,
DHL billed me $24.19, they SMS the morning of the delivery, pay on the Web or at delivery time.

I had more time to use it and it's a great charger. OK it's m'y first "geek" battery charger but having the info with the curves and voltage will help making the battery's Last longer.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My shipment just showed up finally in Kansas City. I'm in Chicago so maybe 2 days more to wait.


----------



## Curetia

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Got mine from HKE today 
The MC3000.exe works fine with Win 10. I started the MC3000.exe as administrator and in Windows 7 compatibility mode.
I'm only not sure if I should risk the firmware update or not ??
Ok I have tried it and Win 10 and Win 8.1 cant do a firmware update got both Update Err2...

I started a discharge from four Samsung 30Q which have 4.20V with 1A for each cell so 4A all together. After 10mins the charger turns the current from Slot 1 and Slot 2 down to 0.3A and the fan is running from the beginning and the charger doesnt feel warm. Why does it turn down the current from Slot 1+2?


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Got mine from GB today, shipped out 5 Dec with free auto and NL post. It will take some time to get use to the UI I think. Did an update to 1.03 and everything went ok it seems. MC 3000 monitor work fine win10, but not the bluetoth (Xperia Android). Tried 3 GP AAA 600mAh batteries and got a "Connection Break", don´t know why yet. Have four different 18650 in the slots now and four different tasks and everything seems to work fine.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Curetia said:


> I started a discharge from four Samsung 30Q which have 4.20V with 1A for each cell so 4A all together. After 10mins the charger turns the current from Slot 1 and Slot 2 down to 0.3A and the fan is running from the beginning and the charger doesnt feel warm. Why does it turn down the current from Slot 1+2?


What is the SysTemp at that time? I am just curious.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

BTW, is there a list of changes/bug fixes for updates of firmware versions?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

No, not on the website.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I received one of the MC3000s I ordered from HKE yesterday. It was routed thru Chicago on December 13th. My second MC3000 has not arrived but I just received a message that it was routed thru Kansas City on December 15th, so it will probably be delivered by USPS tomorrow.

The first batteries I charged were three 5000mAh LSD NiMH C-Cells. I used Dummy Mode and set the current on all slots to 2A. After charging for over an hour I got blinking red slot lights and a message Capacity Cut. I restarted the charge and it finished and terminated properly. I didn't notice the mAh display on Capacity Cut but guess it was around 3500mAh. 

In Global SetUp View (Dummy Mode) I changed several items successfully and it appeared to let me change the Fan Temperature from 122℉ to 104℉ but when I saved the settings it reverted back to 122℉. In GSV (Advanced Mode) it did save to 104℉. 

I have not written any programs yet, but so far everything appears to work properly. I checked the displayed voltage when charging finished and it agreed with my Fluke 289 (.025% DCV accuracy) to better than .01VDC.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

hey_tommy, Please check your PMs.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> In Global SetUp View (Dummy Mode) I changed several items successfully and it appeared to let me change the Fan Temperature from 122℉ to 104℉ but when I saved the settings it reverted back to 122℉. In GSV (Advanced Mode) it did save to 104℉.


Am glad that you found a way around.
Btw, there is only one GSV .. but i know what you mean. Anyway, you know that you must "depress" the Enter button in GSV for the changes to be saved properly. Saving (in GSV, in SPV) is typically done with a depressing of the Enter button.

Anyway you might be right, there could be mini bug, a cute one


----------



## Anders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I posted earlier that MC300 Monitor worked properly in my OS Win10 but now I tried to charge and then rest 1 hour to discharge and used the program to do it and the charger only charged the cells and then quit.

Just to declare that my previous post was not right.

Anders


----------



## Curetia

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> What is the SysTemp at that time? I am just curious.



At 85°C the current of Slot 1 + 2 goes down from 1.00A to 0.30A and sometimes goes up and down again and so on


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

received the first one from GB today
impressive machine


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Curetia said:


> At 85°C the current of Slot 1 + 2 goes down from 1.00A to 0.30A and sometimes goes up and down again and so on


Good to know. Glad that i asked! 85°C sounds like a familiar number to me from my prototype tests last year. It's a safety threshold programmed in the firmware and instead of issuing an error message right away (see manual, list of error messages) the FW reduces the discharge load following some algorithm in order to let the SysTemp cool down. Okay, so now we know it.

For the record, my SysTemp does not go higher than 83°C (with fan on) because i live in a cold room haha.

Please try discharging 3 (instead of 4) fully charged LiIons. My SysTemp maxes out at 69°C with fan on, which is far from the 85°C threshold. Let's compare your SysTemp!


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Am glad that you found a way around.
> Btw, there is only one GSV .. but i know what you mean. Anyway, you know that you must "depress" the Enter button in GSV for the changes to be saved properly. Saving (in GSV, in SPV) is typically done with a depressing of the Enter button.
> 
> Anyway you might be right, there could be mini bug, a cute one



I didn't find a way around it. I can set the fan to something other than 122℉ in Advanced or Simple mode and depress Enter to save the Global Setup and it is saved. When I change the mode to Dummy the fan setting is always 122℉. If I change the mode to Advance or Simple the changed value is there. Global Setup View appears to work differently in Dummy Mode. When in Dummy Mode the new value of Fan appear to be saved when you push enter on that item, but when you depress Enter to save the setup only 122℉ is there.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yay! I received my MC3000 yesterday from GB. Just wanted to comment on GB's unusual tracking reporting:

a) On 9th Dec I received an email from GB saying the item was shipped via DHL. Tracking number was given. Note: I chose the expedited shipping.
b) Same day I checked DHL's website for tracking info. It just said "shipment info received on 4th Dec". Note: perhaps GB had packed and allocated tracking numbers earlier.
c) 11th Dec - checked DHL's website again for updates. Said the same thing as above. I contacted GB support and they just gave a canned answer about waiting for DHL's website to update.
d) 14th Dec - checked DHL's website again for updates, but it was the same status. Contacted GB support again and they said will investigate with shipper.
e) 15th Dec - finally it was picked up by DHL Hong Kong. Tracking status updated.
f) 16th Dec - I received the charger. It helps that I live in Asia and with DHL it usually just takes 1 day to reach me from HK.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Anyway, this charger is big! So much bigger than my Xtar VP2 or Pila IBG.

Going through the manual is a little intimidating - wow, there are so many options and settings and capabilities for this charger. I see now why this is classified as a "hobby charger", my first time using one.

Anyway, one thing I want to do is check the capacity for my AA NiMH batteries. Is using the Refresh function the appropriate one for this? As I understand it, Refresh will first charge the battery to full, then discharge it, and charge back to full. After that it will report the mAh capacity for discharge and charge right?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Both values should be available i think yes. What does the manual say? Let's check...


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Both values should be available i think yes. What does the manual say? Let's check...



On mine after the final charge is done the only available is the discharge value. It goes from accumulated capacity to discharge capacity right away, and I can't find a way to check the accumulated capacity after is done.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

How are you guys accessing the refresh mode? Could someone give me a path?

I put a NiMH in slot one. I push #1 SNB and it allows me to change the charge current but no other changes can be made. 

I can start the charge cycle and then push #1 SNB and I can view the mode, which says “Charge”. I can push the down arrow to highlight the charge mode but I can’t alter it. 

I know I am just a keystroke away from getting there. The manual has a lot of generalizations but no exact path to change modes. Also, I am not using my iphone or computer. My versions are not compatible.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> How are you guys accessing the refresh mode? Could someone give me a path?
> 
> I put a NiMH in slot one. I push #1 SNB and it allows me to change the charge current but no other changes can be made.
> 
> I can start the charge cycle and then push #1 SNB and I can view the mode, which says “Charge”. I can push the down arrow to highlight the charge mode but I can’t alter it.
> 
> I know I am just a keystroke away from getting there. The manual has a lot of generalizations but no exact path to change modes. Also, I am not using my iphone or computer. My versions are not compatible.



Are you in "Dummy Mode"?

On mine I switched to "simple" mode, then I had to create a program for the refresh mode. I'm away from the charger now, so can't give you an exact step-by-step instruction.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Are you in "Dummy Mode"?
> 
> On mine I switched to "simple" mode, then I had to create a program for the refresh mode. I'm away from the charger now, so can't give you an exact step-by-step instruction.


Yeah, I am in "Dummy Mode". I figured there was a default "Refresh Mode". No need to go through a step-by-step. At least for now. Thank you.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just charged three more 5000mAh NiMH LSD C-cells. I did not get the blinking slot LEDs and Capacity Cut message that I experienced yesterday on the first three. The highest charge received was 4700mAh. All three batteries terminated normally. I have no explanation for the difference in behavior compared to the first three batteries of the same type (all six batteries were EBL brand and just received from Amazon).


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So is there a default "Refresh Mode"? For NiMH, LiIon, both? What are the steps?




fnsooner said:


> Yeah, I am in "Dummy Mode". I figured there was a default "Refresh Mode". No need to go through a step-by-step. At least for now. Thank you.


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> So is there a default "Refresh Mode"? For NiMH, LiIon, both? What are the steps?


Nop, not in "Dummy Mode" Refresh is only available in simple or advanced mode, a program has to be created.


----------



## Curetia

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Please try discharging 3 (instead of 4) fully charged LiIons. My SysTemp maxes out at 69°C with fan on, which is far from the 85°C threshold. Let's compare your SysTemp!



Tried to discharge three 18650s with 1A and after 12min it is at 72°C but I have to go to work so I stopped the discharging and will continue it today evening.


----------



## Bizill

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Finally got mine from HKE today. I don't have much to add just yet except that I like it. I only charged 3 King Kong 26650's @ 2 amps each in dummy mode. Bluetooth needs some work with Android, but I didn't really try to do anything with it besides allowing the SkyRC to connect with my phone.

Negative right off the bat is just that it's somewhat difficult to pull the cells out of the charger carefully. I don't want to fling them across the room and I'm always weary of breaking a spring on chargers like these. I'm not implying it'll break prematurely, just that I worry. I'm a worry wart.

Anyway, thus far I already appreciate it. Much more user friendly thnt busting out my icharger and 4-6 magnetic leads and charging in series. Looking forward to being an early adopter and hopefully getting timely firmware/software updates.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



megawolf said:


> , and I can't find a way to check the accumulated capacity after is done.


when refresh is done, you get green led. then you can press the green snb. sov should show both values by alternating the numbers in the capacity row.

at least that's what the manual says.:candle:

i cant check, i cant interrupt my 24/7 charger testruns like CYCLE and BREAK_IN, sorry


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> when refresh is done, you get green led. then you can press the green snb. spv should show both values by alternating the numbers in the capacity row.
> 
> i cant check, i cant interrupt my charger tests



:thinking: Mmmm I did that but I waited only 10 sec or so and it didn't alternate, I'll try tomorrow again :thinking:


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ok, did my first attempt at doing a Refresh for a couple of Fujitsu AAA NiMH batteries today. In the Refresh program I specified the following:

Type: NiMH
Capacity: 800mAh (this follows the nominal capacity of the batteries)
Charge current: 0.4A
Discharge current: 0.2A







Some questions:
a) The discharge stopped when the batteries reach 0.90V. I thought for NiMH the typical discharge will stop at 1.00V - is this correct?
b) During the charge cycle (after discharge) I got a "capacity cut" error. Why did this happen? Also, for my program should I then set the capacity to OFF?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Some questions:
> a) The discharge stopped when the batteries reach 0.90V. I thought for NiMH the typical discharge will stop at 1.00V - is this correct?
> b) During the charge cycle (after discharge) I got a "capacity cut" error. Why did this happen? Also, for my program should I then set the capacity to OFF?


Valid questions. And i am glad that i can answer them:

re a) 
Yes the manual lists correctly 1.00V for NiMH on page 11. ( Note that the MH-C9000 always discharges down to 0.90V fwiw. ) So the default in the firmware should be 1.00V in NiMH. In the next fw version this will be corrected, thanks for pointing out.

re b)
I hope you read and understood the explanation of "capacity cut" in the manual, page 20. Entering 800mAh for a nominal 800mAh battery is not advisable. Personally i would set it to OFF but you can add your own buffer to it, for example 1.1*800 or 1.15*800 or 1.2*800.

:huh:


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Valid questions. And i am glad that i can answer them:
> 
> re a)
> Yes the manual lists correctly 1.00V for NiMH on page 11. ( Note that the MH-C9000 always discharges down to 0.90V fwiw. ) So the default in the firmware should be 1.00V in NiMH. In the next fw version this will be corrected, thanks for pointing out.
> 
> re b)
> I hope you read and understood the explanation of "capacity cut" in the manual, page 20. Entering 800mAh for a nominal 800mAh battery is not advisable. Personally i would set it to OFF but you can add your own buffer to it, for example 1.1*800 or 1.15*800 or 1.2*800.
> 
> :huh:



Thanks for the answers kreisl.

Regarding (a) yes you can correct the next fw to stop discharge at 1.00V for NiMH. But please allow it to be adjustable in Advanced mode.

For (b) I read but did not understand fully the explanation of "capacity cut" in the manual. Thanks for explaining. I'm going to set it to OFF.

Another question: in making a program for Charging, do you also advise to set capacity to OFF?


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

1. Is there a way to make all those programs (30) in the pc or mobile and save them in the charger? 
2. Are all the programs safe in the charger if we do a reset or FW update, if not, is there a posibility to save the programs in the pc or on a usb-stick?


----------



## OneTreeHill

HKJ said:


> MC3000 will do much more, the main issue for some people will be how to use it. It can be a bit hard to get started on.


Thank you for your answer. BTW, i need a 9V battery chager and rechargeable battery. What do you recommend for me?


----------



## dts71

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Curetia said:


> At 85°C the current of Slot 1 + 2 goes down from 1.00A to 0.30A and sometimes goes up and down again and so on



Same experience here - I had 84°C system temp. and 23°C in the room. 
Slot 1 and 2 fluctuated at different discharge rates while slot 3 was stable at -1A.
Slot 4 at 2.85V (in the too large picture) is reasonable though as I set 2.85V as end voltage and 0.1A terminating current.
Considering how big the charger is, a 60mm fan might have been a better choice...


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have written two MC3000 programs so far using Simple Mode. One was an Eneloop Charge Program for AAs. I wanted to see what was different from the NiMH mode. I was able to directly select AA and slightly modified the charge current. 

The second program was a NiMH Refresh Program to determine the real capacity of the EBL 5000mAh LSD NiMH batteries I purchased. I set the charge current at 2A and the discharge current at 500mA. The test is presently running and I expect it will take about 12 hours more. I really like the Diagram Drawing View. The batteries had been previously fully charged, so the charge part of the refresh cycle didn't take very long. You could easily see the the negative dv/dt in DDV. Because this Refresh Program is running on three cells, I cannot do any other experiments at this time. That is why I purchased two MC3000s. The second unit still hasn't arrived, but I expect it by USPS tomorrow or Saturday.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes JB, the discharge cut-off voltage will always be adjustable (within a limited range), except in the Break_in operation mode.
The capacity cut is a simple effective safety measure, an upper limit for the _counting _mAh's to avoid overcharging. *FYI* as MH-C9000 does, the mAh count does not include TRICKLE charging (in the present fw version). If the trickle charge is set too high, it is still possible to overcharge the NiMH even though a capacity limit was set. That's where the timer cut-off would come into play. The general advice is: It is safer to set these 2 options. ( i believe in the safety of my batteries and the charger and i am lazy, so often i set these 2 options to OFF hh )

Zanders there is always hope that in future the mobile app and the PCLS will equal/match the functionality of the latest device firmware, like the programming of 30 global programs. Sky seems to be lagging with the development and … :sweat:. So let's do us the favor and not wait for it but expect the least. It is thinkable that DEX will overtake Sky in the development and take over relevance. What you're missing in PCLS now, could be found in DEX then, fingers crossed.
A reset resets the 30 programs, and firmware update typically does so too. Saving the 30 programs altogether in a computer file for safe storage, i really dig that idea thanks! I am going to pitch it to them. I am confident that such an important feature will be available in a future DEX or in a future PCLS version.

dts71 thanks for the share. What you and Curetia are observing at FLD**, is correct and intended by the fw authoring team. Hardcore modders on other sites (i don't mean www :devil found ways to keep the temps down such that the threshold isn't reached but their take involved breaking plastic parts and adding dis an dad, a real charger mod om*g!, and i certainly cannot disclose nor recommend such crazy procedure. For the time being, please accept the situation: for constant -1.0A discharging over the whole runtime try not to produce a higher total load than -13 Watts, for example 3x LiIon's only (3*4.35*1 < 13 Watts).

**FLD = full load discharging, i.e. |-15W| or higher


----------



## dts71

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My Norton persistently deletes MC3000.exe and considers it unsafe on my Win7 machine.
I then run it on a Windows Vista laptop with less picky antivirus and then run into another issue. 
The program won't fit on a 1280x800 screen and there seems to be no scaling of the window.


Update:
With version 1.01, Norton now let me choose to run the program. 

By grabing the right edge I can move the window so I can see the buttons at the bottom of the window. 

:thumbsup:


----------



## retrocon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dts71 said:


> ...
> The program won't fit on a 1280x800 screen and there seems to be no scaling of the window.



i have the same problem on win10, i am able to grab the screen edge and move the window up to see the fourth/bottom graph, but still cannot size it.


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> when refresh is done, you get green led. then you can press the green snb. sov should show both values by alternating the numbers in the capacity row.
> 
> at least that's what the manual says.:candle:
> 
> i cant check, i cant interrupt my 24/7 charger testruns like CYCLE and BREAK_IN, sorry



I'll wait 'till you or somebody else can check because I just finished another refresh and nop it doesn't alternate, goes back to TOV.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

In #6, i am listing arguable suggestions we've come up with.


----------



## dts71

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



retrocon said:


> i have the same problem on win10, i am able to grab the screen edge and move the window up to see the fourth/bottom graph, but still cannot size it.



I see now that you can grab the blue edge to the right in the window - now I can reach the buttons


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> In #6, i am listing arguable suggestions we've come up with.



For future hardware improvements, I suggest adding 9 volt battery compatibility. That way the analyzer will support every ordinary household battery out there, like the Ansmann 3000. Not many analyzers can brag about that, and it will be just another argument to get this analyzer.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sorry Viking, please "nothing too distant from the present state of things". Only minor changes, still under the MC3000 name, the current production. A 9V compatible device would be named 3200 or something. Not a valid suggestion for that list. Therefore i also did not list Power Bank.


Viking said:


> I thought so


Thanks for your understanding.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I thought so


----------



## Curetia

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> dts71 thanks for the share. What you and Curetia are observing at FLD**, is correct and intended by the fw authoring team. Hardcore modders on other sites (i don't mean www :devil found ways to keep the temps down such that the threshold isn't reached but their take involved breaking plastic parts and adding dis an dad, a real charger mod om*g!, and i certainly cannot disclose nor recommend such crazy procedure. For the time being, please accept the situation: for constant -1.0A discharging over the whole runtime try not to produce a higher total load than -13 Watts, for example 3x LiIon's only (3*4.35*1 < 13 Watts).
> 
> **FLD = full load discharging, i.e. |-15W| or higher



After 1h discharging 3 Slots of 18650 with 1A the SysTemp is at 78°C so the max discharge looks like 3x1A with 18650s


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> ... For the time being, please accept the situation: for constant -1.0A discharging over the whole runtime try not to produce a higher total load than -13 Watts, for example 3x LiIon's only (3*4.35*1 < 13 Watts). **FLD = full load discharging, i.e. |-15W| or higher



Ah, the 15W discharge limit is for the _entire unit_. I had assumed it was _per slot_. That's somewhat weak for discharging. I have smaller hobby chargers that can discharge to 150W. I'm surprised you couldn't squeeze more discharge power into such a large unit. Is that limit the result of a design decision or hardware limitation, or ...?


----------



## Anders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The hobbychargers won't have the pack in the unit, thats why.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Anders said:


> The hobbychargers won't have the pack in the unit, thats why.



Of course, but much more than 15W should be possible with optimal thermal design.


----------



## gyzmo2002

The update for the application for ios is on stream now. I did not received the charger but the appli starts correctly with this update.


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My charger should arrive any day now, at least I hope that. 
I have around 20kg of A123 cells to test for an ebike project, so would the following program be possible:

1) discharge (to measure remaining capacity)
2) charge
3) Discharge (to measure actual capacity)
4) storage charge.

Thanks.


----------



## fnsooner

gyzmo2002 said:


> The update for the application for ios is on stream now. I did not received the charger but the appli starts correctly with this update.



I can confirm. I updated the app and now it opens. The charger won't sync with my iphone 6 ios 9.2. Progress though.

I get "Alert No Charger Found!" when I start the app.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Julian Holtz said:


> I have around 20kg of A123 cells to test for an ebike project, so would the following program be possible:
> 
> 1) discharge (to measure remaining capacity)
> 2) charge
> 3) Discharge (to measure actual capacity)
> 4) storage charge.


Talking about programming:

With a single program number AND without a PC, no, not possible.
With a PC, you could program a single program, called a composite program (or combined program), which sequences a series of compatible single non-composite programs ("program steps"). This feature should be realized (in PCLS not likely, in DEX more likely) in some future, but better not wait for it. Nobody knows when composite programming will be available in some form.

Since at this point in time, composite programs are not possible, neither with PC/mobile nor on the device, you would need to split this 4-step task into 2 or 3 tasks by reserving program numbers for them and then executing the programs consecutively. Off the top of my ****, 2 possible alternatives:

ALT1 (no PC needed):


PROGRAM[01] Discharge mode. After [01] has finished, the discharged capacity will be available.
PROGRAM[02] Cycle mode w/ C>D sequence (N=1). After [02] has finished, only the discharged capacity will be available. (afaik)
PROGRAM[03] Storage mode
 
ALT2 (PC helpful):


PROGRAM[01] Cycle mode w/ D>C>D sequence (N=1). After [01] has finished, only the discharged capacity of the 2nd Discharge will be available. (afaik)
PROGRAM[02] Storage mode
 
With ALT2, if you need the discharged capacity of the 1st Discharge, then either read the value from the LCD screen during the D.RESTING routine or read it from the PCLS window at any time (the value is shown at the tip of the mouse cursor). Clearly, if you can't use PCLS and cannot be present during the 1st Discharge, then you'd miss the discharged capacity of the 1st Discharge; in such a situation ALT2 would not be an acceptable alternative.

In general both alternatives are nice, clear and logical. Trivial. ALT1 is more flexible and more fun, more playing with the buttons. ALT2 is more elegant but comes with a price for l*ziness: be present OR use the PCLS, or else you miss the discharged capacity of the 1st Discharge!


----------



## dts71

fnsooner said:


> I can confirm. I updated the app and now it opens. The charger won't sync with my iphone 6 ios 9.2. Progress though.
> 
> I get "Alert No Charger Found!" when I start the app.



I'm running 9.2 on a 5S and it seems to be running fine. I have only used monitoring so far, will try to push settings during next batch i try out.


----------



## fnsooner

dts71 said:


> I'm running 9.2 on a 5S and it seems to be running fine. I have only used monitoring so far, will try to push settings during next batch i try out.


I was charging when I initially updated the app and tried to connect. After reading your post, I decided to unplug and then plug the charger back in. I then closed and re-opened the app and now everything is synced up. Yay.


----------



## morcegolas

gyzmo2002 said:


> The update for the application for ios is on stream now. I did not received the charger but the appli starts correctly with this update.



Nice, I didn't receive mine either, but it's already here in customs! Any day soon!


----------



## gyzmo2002

morcegolas said:


> Nice, I didn't receive mine either, but it's already here in customs! Any day soon!



It's been 7 days that it has been shipped. The tracking works since today only. "The item is pre-advice". PostNL....Not much info....


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Now that I can start adding programs to the app, I have a lot of NiMH Turningy AA and AAA cells, they have 2550mAh and 900mAh.

The settings for AAA 900mAh will be:
Capacity - 900 ( Battery capacity)
Charge current - 0.2 A ( Default was 1.0A )
Cut Current - -0.01 mA
Target Volt - 1.65 ( This is default, I don't know if this is too high )
Cut Temp - 50°C
Cut Time - Off ( Default was 120m )
Restart Volt - 1.20 (1.35V was default, isn't this an high value? )
Detal V - 10mV
Trickle C - 10mA

The lines that I didn't comment is default values, should I change any of this?
Sorry my dummies questions but I'm new to rechargeable batteries and I want to learn more before do anything. 

Thanks!


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have only had one of my MC3000s since December 15, but I have discovered some things to make things very easy.

Decide what chemistry batteries you want to use. In my case it was Eneloop, Li-Ion, and NiMH. Write one program for one chemistry, inserting that type of battery in one slot. Then push the Slot Button to enter SPV, enter desired values, and Save to 01.

After that is done, go to Slot Programming View and change the program to some new characteristics, maybe Refresh rather than charge. Specify the new parameters and Save to 02.

Continue this method for all the batteries of that Chemistry.

Insert a battery of a new chemistry, and change the program for the new chemistry and characteristic desired. Save to the next available program number.

Continue this method until you have created all the programs you desire.

To see what the various programs do, with no batteries in the slots, push any slot button. One program will appear. You can now can thru all your programs by pushing the up and down buttons. Enough information is normally displayed so you can tell what each program number does without scanning the program.

Once I learned how to do this, I was able to create six or seven programs in just a few minutes, and I could tell what the programs did very fast by scanning thru the programs. I chose Advanced mode to have the most items appear.

Once you have all the programs you need and you can identify the program numbers easily, the MC3000 is very easy to use.


----------



## mms

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> Now that I can start adding programs to the app, I have a lot of NiMH Turningy AA and AAA cells, they have 2550mAh and 900mAh.
> 
> The settings for AAA 900mAh will be:
> Capacity - 900 ( Battery capacity)
> Charge current - 0.2 A ( Default was 1.0A )
> Cut Current - -0.01 mA
> Target Volt - 1.65 ( This is default, I don't know if this is too high )
> Cut Temp - 50°C
> Cut Time - Off ( Default was 120m )
> Restart Volt - 1.20 (1.35V was default, isn't this an high value? )
> Detal V - 10mV
> Trickle C - 10mA
> 
> The lines that I didn't comment is default values, should I change any of this?
> Sorry my dummies questions but I'm new to rechargeable batteries and I want to learn more before do anything.
> 
> Thanks!



I'm not an expert, but in my short experience with this charger you might need to change the following:
Capacity - 1000-1100, during the charge cycle the battery needs to take a bit more of its capacity to be fully charged (some energy being lost by heating?)
Charge current - 0.4-0.5 A minimum, lower than that the charging might not be finished correctly (it happened to me at 0.5 A with some old cells).
Delta V - the default 3mV worked just fine for most of my cells, except a few very old ones that were almost dead, 10mV might be too much especially for lower charge currents
Trickle C - I'm not familiar with Turnigy batteries, but if they are low self-discharge you need to turn trickle charging off


----------



## cdm191

Evening All,

Just received the MC3000 and attempted a firmware update to V.1.03 but unforunately experienced a 'start vector' error (or something along those lines) and now appear to have a bricked charger.

I don't suppose anyone has a potential remedy to the above situation other than returning to GB. Charger powers up with simply a blank illuminated screen through both DC mains and/or USB.

Many thanks,

Chris


----------



## billcushman

cdm191 said:


> Evening All,
> 
> Just received the MC3000 and attempted a firmware update to V.1.03 but unforunately experienced a 'start vector' error (or something along those lines) and now appear to have a bricked charger.
> 
> I don't suppose anyone has a potential remedy to the above situation other than returning to GB. Charger powers up with simply a blank illuminated screen through both DC mains and/or USB.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Chris



Welcome to the forum. I am very sorry for your problem. I encourage everyone to learn how to use the MC3000 before attempting to do a software update. It works very well with the supplied software and any existing problems are minor and won't affect most users. All of us have waited so very long, we don't need any others to have this new members unfortunate experience.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

mms is right with the explanations.
so here is my take, similar to mms:


morcegolas said:


> Now that I can start adding programs to the app, I have a lot of NiMH Turningy AA and AAA cells, they have 2550mAh and 900mAh.
> 
> The settings for AAA 900mAh will be:
> Capacity - 900 ( Battery capacity) 1000 or 1100 (or Off)
> Charge current - 0.2 A ( Default was 1.0A ) anything between 0.3A and 0.5A
> Cut Current - -0.01 mA what's that? this option will not be used during Charge program: Off
> Target Volt - 1.65 ( This is default, I don't know if this is too high ) OK
> Cut Temp - 50°C OK
> Cut Time - Off ( Default was 120min ) 200min if you charge with 0.3A (or Off)
> Restart Volt - 1.20 (1.35V was default, isn't this an high value? ) Off, if possible
> Detal V - 10mV 1mV
> Trickle C - 10mA OK (or Off)
> 
> The lines that I didn't comment is default values, should I change any of this?


Turnigy is the housebrand of Hobbyking. It's a trade name, a brand, just a name. Turnigy does not own their own Turnigy factory, likewise Hobbyking does not own their own Hobbyking (or Turnigy) factory. Such a thing (Turnigy factory, or Hobbyking factory) does not exist. Turnigy branded products are made in all kinds of OEM factories including Junsi factory, Skyrc factory, G.T.Power factory and many many more, pretty much any real manufacturer within the RC hobby field. OEM manufacturing is the most common thing in China, and in particular in our scene, flashlights, chargers, batteries.

@cdm191
you could write a full description of what you did and of your system and send an email to Sky. helpful for verification would be photos of bricked charger, proof of purchase, etc. Then they would try to reproduce your malheur and take measures based on their findings. which OS have you been using? If they succeed to reproduce it, then they might also find a way how to fix it.

I am going to bed now, good night y'all.


----------



## morcegolas

cdm191 sorry to hear that, hope they get a solution for you. :/
Thanks mms and kreisl, I'm reading the manual once more and it says there that we shouldn't charge NiMH under 0.3
I don't know if it's a bug in the iOS app, or if it's because I don't have a charger conneced, maybe who already have one can try it, when adding a program I select Cut Volt - Off, but when I go edit that program it's in 1.30v.
Another thing that they can improve it's the rearrangement of the programs order in the App

Thanks


----------



## fnsooner

cdm191 said:


> Evening All,
> 
> Just received the MC3000 and attempted a firmware update to V.1.03 but unforunately experienced a 'start vector' error (or something along those lines) and now appear to have a bricked charger.
> 
> I don't suppose anyone has a potential remedy to the above situation other than returning to GB. Charger powers up with simply a blank illuminated screen through both DC mains and/or USB.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Chris



Sorry to hear about this Chris. Yours is the first case of this, as far as I know, so you are in new territory. Could you tell us what version of Windows you were using to perform the update?


----------



## fnsooner

To tell the truth, I didn’t really get the need for the phone app but monitoring the progress of a refresh cycle, from my easy chair, is well… easy.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Did GearBest attached any invoice to your packages? If yes what value?


----------



## cdm191

Thank you all for the rapid responses.

The update was performed within a Windows 10 Enterprise OS running the official SkyRc software under a Windows 7 compatibility environment.

No issues were experienced prior to initiating the update routine.

The update was initiated by selecting the update firmware option (following detection of the new v.1.03 firmware) transitioning the screen to its blank state immediately. At this point the update was then observed to flag up an "err.2 start vector" roughly 10% into the process (~5seconds in), terminating the update routine. Re-starting the update proved to be unsuccessful.
The USB hardware is now no longer identifiable (previously a Custom HID device) and power cycling does not recover the charger to its original state. A blank illuminated screen is all that remains regardless of whether powered through the USB port or DC mains.

I have e-mailed SkyRc and will post an update here in due course.

Once again, many thanks for the rapid responses.


----------



## >PETE<

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Kreisl,

If you used an adapter for a 9v battery to utilise one of the 4 banks is the device capable of charging a 9v battery via a firmware update of some sort? This could be a way of getting 9v battery support without having to change any of the hardware. I know this would be something alot of people would love to have. Skyrc could design the adapter and sell it separately to offset development/firmware design costs.

A powerbank would require a hardware redesign and I can see this as non-feasible on the MC3000.

Cheers.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



>PETE< said:


> Kreisl,
> 
> If you used an adapter for a 9v battery to utilise one of the 4 banks is the device capable of charging a 9v battery via a firmware update of some sort? This could be a way of getting 9v battery support without having to change any of the hardware. I know this would be something alot of people would love to have. Skyrc could design the adapter and sell it separately to offset development/firmware design costs.
> 
> A powerbank would require a hardware redesign and I can see this as non-feasible on the MC3000.
> 
> Cheers.


a 9v battery isn't a single cell, and the charger isn't set up for multiple cell battery charging and since the input of the charger is nominal 11-12v it doesn't give much headroom to charge such a battery in the first place plus there are several differing voltages of 9v cells some have 2x lithium ion in series, 6 1.2v nimh, 7 1.2v nimh, and maybe even 8 1.2v nimh.


----------



## dts71

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Minor bug report:
The new app for IOS running 9.2.

For program cycle, it defaults to 1A discharge current - however you can't save any other value.

Discharge program will let you save other values but it's limited to 0.05-1A for Li and 0.05-2A for NiMH.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dts71 said:


> Minor bug report:
> The new app for IOS running 9.2.
> 
> For program cycle, it defaults to 1A discharge current - however you can't save any other value.
> 
> Discharge program will let you save other values but it's limited to 0.05-1A for Li and 0.05-2A for NiMH.



True, I already created a cycle program for NiMH, and set the discharge at 0.2, after reading your message I edit the program and the discharge rate is at 1.0 instead 0.2. 

Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



>PETE< said:


> Kreisl,
> 
> If you used an adapter for a 9v battery to utilise one of the 4 banks is the device capable of charging a 9v battery via a firmware update of some sort? This could be a way of getting 9v battery support without having to change any of the hardware. I know this would be something alot of people would love to have. Skyrc could design the adapter and sell it separately to offset development/firmware design costs.
> 
> A powerbank would require a hardware redesign and I can see this as non-feasible on the MC3000.
> 
> Cheers.



the electronics don't support 9V batteries in the slot.

it's like feeding 10440 in a flashlight which is rated for 0.8-1.5V operating voltage range.

moving on.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

On the manual share here in this topic, in page 10 regarding Forming Charge it says:
"Battery Forming Charge
NiMH/NiCd batteries, new or stored for extended period, can become chemically deactivated. 
Battery forming charge is a charge-discharge-charge cycle which forces a full charge into the 
battery at a very slow rate. This process reactivates the battery. In certain cases, it needs to be 
repeated two or three times. Battery forming charge can be emulated by using the Break_in mode 
with the C>D>C sequence. For very best health and condition though, cycling two or three times 
at standard charge/discharge rates may be more effective"

So for what I understand it's better to give NiMH forming charge in 3x cycle C>D>C when they are new that are my case, I just don't understand what Break_in mode is used for...

Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> So for what I understand it's better to give NiMH forming charge in 3x cycle C>D>C when they are new that are my case, I just don't understand what Break_in mode is used for...


Anyway, i am testing now Break_in mode on new (=stored yet unusued) FDK Eneloops, C>D>C like MH-C9000, a set of *8pcs*. Prior to this test i cycled them with -1.0/1.0A seven times. *Nos1-4* in Maha, *nos5-8* in mc3k, 7 cycles. Both analyzers indicated a rise of max capacity from cycle to cycle, a dramatic rise. Basically after 4-10 cycles at -1.0/1.0A the batteries will have maxed out in capacity, no further rise. Then it is time to do a Break_in to verify the capacity rating. See manual page19, for the proper purpose of the Break_in mode. It's not for forming charge, not really. Maha says so but i don't buy it. The forming charge is a secondary purpose. I remember having done a Maha Break_in on stored unused Eneloops in the past and got disappointing low capacities. I repeated the Break_in, and no change! It was only after treating the batteries at higher rates that they got back to full life, full performance, full capacity.

So call the process/aim however you or Maha like, anyway in my experience with stored Eneloop batteries, the most effective method to get them back to max capacity (=to recondition them) is by charging and discharging them at _high _rates, say |±1.00A| charge transfer rate.

Basically i am claiming that for perfectly reconditioning stored Eneloops, running (only) Break_in mode 1, 2 or 3 times won't cut it. A combination of high rate cycling and Break_in cycling is more effective.

"_Eneloops enjoy high rates._" — you can quote me on that. ( but i am no battery expert, just a squirrel with a lot of Eneloop analyzing experience haha)


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yay. I just got a letter from the post office, I'll now cycle there and have my charger in less than 1h or so. 



kreisl said:


> Talking about programming:
> 
> []
> ALT1 (no PC needed):
> 
> 
> PROGRAM[01] Discharge mode. After [01] has finished, the discharged capacity will be available.
> PROGRAM[02] Cycle mode w/ C>D sequence (N=1). After [02] has finished, only the discharged capacity will be available. (afaik)
> PROGRAM[03] Storage mode
> 
> ALT2 (PC helpful):
> 
> 
> PROGRAM[01] Cycle mode w/ D>C>D sequence (N=1). After [01] has finished, only the discharged capacity of the 2nd Discharge will be available. (afaik)
> PROGRAM[02] Storage mode
> 
> []



Kreisl, thanks for your elaborate answer. I think I'll resort to just measuring the voltage at the beginning in order to judge self discharge, and do a C>D sequence then. I can still parallel storage charge the cells with my iChargers after that.
For multiple D>C>D series, it would be useful if the charger could display the individual discharge or charge capacities, so that one can see a change of capacities. The iCharger does this.

Concerning Nixx refresh programs: How about a program that stops refreshing if it does not detect a capacity increase in the following steps? This way, the user would not have to guess how many steps are necessary, the charger would determine. Like, if less than 1% cpacity gain per cycle, abort mission.


----------



## aekvulture

Hi there. I found a small glitch.. The fan in the AUTO mode does not work properly. When the system temperature reaches 52C° dramatically increases the fan speed, temperature plummets to 51C°, the fan turns sharply resets the temperature rises again to 52C° ... and so on. As a result, I'm listening to the constant howling fans, more->less->more->less, and this is fast changes. As if someone indulges with the accelerator pedal in a car. 
Need to add hysteresis in the logic of the fan.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Julian Holtz said:


> For multiple D>C>D series, it would be useful if the charger could display the individual discharge or charge capacities, so that one can see a change of capacities. The iCharger does this.
> 
> Concerning Nixx refresh programs: How about a program that stops refreshing if it does not detect a capacity increase in the following steps? This way, the user would not have to guess how many steps are necessary, the charger would determine. Like, if less than 1% cpacity gain per cycle, abort mission


I am hearing you and both ideas are not new to me and they would be easy to implement and they were considered back then already but got dropped off the table and i agreed.

For multiple cycles, say D>C>D N=10, the charger will show all 10 discharged capacities, of course. I don't feel strongly about also showing the 10 charged capacities. The relevant number is always the discharged capacity. If the user needs to see all 20 values, that's what the PCLS and DEX are good for, namely the detailed analysis of everything else. Counter example. Sky implements it. We see 20 values on the screen. Then comes dinoboy or somebody else and complains that he feels that it is annoying to see the 10 charged capacities because they seem useless to him etc. - See? Decisions have to be taken in order to be able to move on. And it was decided against it. Back then.

1%? Why not 2.34%? Why not 0.5%? Sorry, this introduces unnecessary arbitrariness. Also control is taken away from the user.

Let's keep it simple. This charger is already intricate enough. Thanks for your input and also comprehension.


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You're welcome.

But I have to say, I'm quite pissed right now. Reason is that the charger apparently does not meet the neccessary specifications for a trouble-free import. I just came back from the customs office, and they told me that the CE mark and a variety of other neccessary compliances are missing. They must be imprinted in a non-removable way on the charger, especially as a radio frequency device (blutooth) is built in. Now I have to wait until monday for a specialist to look at things, and worst case is that it is sent to the "Bundesnetzagentur" (Federal Network Agency), the german frequency GeStaPo. Someone with a direct contact to SkyRc should tell them that a lot of EU customers are in for a nasty surprise if they don't meet the regulations.
A nameplate (which the charger is missing altogether) congruent with the regulations should look like this:

http://www.planet3dnow.de/photoplog/images/49821/1_corsair8.jpg

http://www.exp-tech.de/media/catalo...3525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/4/1466label_lrg.jpg


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Julian Holtz said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> But I have to say, I'm quite pissed right now. Reason is that the charger apparently does not meet the neccessary specifications for a trouble-free import. I just came back from the customs office, and they told me that the CE mark and a variety of other neccessary compliances are missing. They must be imprinted in a non-removable way on the charger, especially as a radio frequency device (blutooth) is built in.


There is a CE and FC mark on the box, unlucky that they missed to mark it on the charger.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Something is definitely wrong! My AC Adapter has a large label in a recessed area on the back. It states SkyRC Model PSU-60W and contains the required CE and FCC marks. AC Switching Adapter is molded in raised letters on the front. Check your PMs. I sent you a link with lots of good pictures of the PSU-60W. 



Julian Holtz said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> But I have to say, I'm quite pissed right now. Reason is that the charger apparently does not meet the neccessary specifications for a trouble-free import. I just came back from the customs office, and they told me that the CE mark and a variety of other neccessary compliances are missing. They must be imprinted in a non-removable way on the charger, especially as a radio frequency device (blutooth) is built in. Now I have to wait until monday for a specialist to look at things, and worst case is that it is sent to the "Bundesnetzagentur" (Federal Network Agency), the german frequency GeStaPo. Someone with a direct contact to SkyRc should tell them that a lot of EU customers are in for a nasty surprise if they don't meet the regulations.
> A nameplate (which the charger is missing altogether) congruent with the regulations should look like this:
> 
> http://www.planet3dnow.de/photoplog/images/49821/1_corsair8.jpg
> 
> http://www.exp-tech.de/media/catalo...3525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/4/1466label_lrg.jpg


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Something is definitely wrong! My charger has a large label in a recessed area on the back. It states SkyRC Model PSU-60W and contains the required CE and FCC marks. AC Switching Adapter is molded in raised letters on the front. Please post a picture of the front and back of your charger if possible.


The AC adapter has the CE FC marks on it, but not the charger itself.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks. I edited my message and sent Julian a link with lots of pictures of the AC Adapter. It is the unit that requires the various regulatory marks. Apparently his Adapter does not have a label on the back.



Zanders said:


> The AC adapter has the CE FC marks on it, but not the charger itself.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Ah, the 15W discharge limit is for the _entire unit_. I had assumed it was _per slot_. That's somewhat weak for discharging. I have smaller hobby chargers that can discharge to 150W. I'm surprised you couldn't squeeze more discharge power into such a large unit. Is that limit the result of a design decision or hardware limitation, or ...?



The 15W limit doesn't surprise me. If you watch this, this and this it seems that the thermal management is not good engineered:
1) The heatsink has the fin channels placed horizontally and not vertically (the fan is under the heatsink, so both the fan flow and natural convection are vertical)
2) The PCB blocks most of the arflow, there are only few and small holes in the PCB.
3) The FAN aiflow is directed toward the bottom of the charger, exactly the opposite of the natural air convection: not a very smart idea...


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

After you have easily created some some desired programs (see my post #1198 on page 40 of this thread), proceed as follows to select the program and charge batteries.

Push the Slot Number Button on any empty slot you plan to use.

Push the Up and Down buttons to select the desired program number. Enough program information is displayed to identify the program properties (charge, refresh, NiMH, LiIon, etc).

Push and hold the Enter Button. The program you selected in the previous step is assigned to the slot you plan to use.

Insert a battery in the slot you plan to use.

Click the Enter Button. Processing is displayed and the desired operation begins on the installed battery.

I found this method easy and fast to use. I hope you find it helpful.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kappa7 said:


> The 15W limit doesn't surprise me. If you watch this, this and this it seems that the thermal management is not good engineered:
> 1) The heatsink has the fin channels placed horizontally and not vertically (the fan is under the heatsink, so both the fan flow and natural convection are vertical)
> 2) The PCB blocks most of the arflow, there are only few and small holes in the PCB.
> 3) The FAN aiflow is directed toward the bottom of the charger, exactly the opposite of the natural air convection: not a very smart idea...


Hello kappa7. You're making some points. Valid ones i guess but sometimes one cannot have it all. I am really satisfied with my test unit. And like billcushman said, the operation of the UI can be mastered and, in the end, becomes easy and some fun. Not very challenging.

re 1) Afaik this has cost reasons, that is cost saving reasons. I agree, the milled aluminum cooler does not exhibit higher CAD optimization. I find it suboptimal yet very acceptable fwiw. 
re 2) Yeah, hard to make changes, bigger venting holes. It's okay, moving on.
re 3) Hmm… I guess i'd agree here too. Haven't given it too much thought tbh, even though i sometimes feel smart. I'll shoot them a hi about it. Maybe the production line worker didn't realize what he/she was doing *ggg*


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kappa7 said:


> The 15W limit doesn't surprise me. If you watch this, this and this it seems that the thermal management is not good engineered ...



Thanks for the internals photos. "Not good" is an understatement. That ranks among the worst thermal design that I have ever seen in a charger. How sad that they couldn't do a more competent job on something so basic in an anaylzing charger.

With such poor thermal design and very weak discharging power, the high cost is not justified IMHO. I won't be recommending this unit to anybody.


----------



## hey_tommy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> "Not good" is an understatement. That ranks among the worst thermal design that I have ever seen in a charger. How sad that they couldn't do a more competent job on something so basic in an anaylzing charger.



I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment.

The way I see it, if they they want to stick with the current PCB layout, fan placement needs to change from the bottom of case to one of the sides, so that the fan is providing cross-flow across the components and is parallel with the heatsink fins. Put a fan on one of the sides to blow out hot air, and an air inlet grille on the opposite side - problem solved.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Anyway, i am testing now Break_in mode on new (=stored yet unusued) FDK Eneloops, C>D>C like MH-C9000, a set of *8pcs*. Prior to this test i cycled them with -1.0/1.0A seven times. *Nos1-4* in Maha, *nos5-8* in mc3k, 7 cycles. Both analyzers indicated a rise of max capacity from cycle to cycle, a dramatic rise. Basically after 4-10 cycles at -1.0/1.0A the batteries will have maxed out in capacity, no further rise. Then it is time to do a Break_in to verify the capacity rating. See manual page19, for the proper purpose of the Break_in mode. It's not for forming charge, not really. Maha says so but i don't buy it. The forming charge is a secondary purpose. I remember having done a Maha Break_in on stored unused Eneloops in the past and got disappointing low capacities. I repeated the Break_in, and no change! It was only after treating the batteries at higher rates that they got back to full life, full performance, full capacity.
> 
> So call the process/aim however you or Maha like, anyway in my experience with stored Eneloop batteries, the most effective method to get them back to max capacity (=to recondition them) is by charging and discharging them at _high _rates, say |±1.00A| charge transfer rate.
> 
> Basically i am claiming that for perfectly reconditioning stored Eneloops, running (only) Break_in mode 1, 2 or 3 times won't cut it. A combination of high rate cycling and Break_in cycling is more effective.
> 
> "_Eneloops enjoy high rates._" — you can quote me on that. ( but i am no battery expert, just a squirrel with a lot of Eneloop analyzing experience haha)



So you say quick C>D>C then Break_in. Doing this 3 times once after another right?

Mina are no enellops, are LowSelfDischarge, -1A|+1A it's ok? What about AAA 900mAh?

Thanks.


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Thanks. I edited my message and sent Julian a link with lots of pictures of the AC Adapter. It is the unit that requires the various regulatory marks. Apparently his Adapter does not have a label on the back.




Please note that my charger is affected. This is why I wrote "charger", not "power supply" or "AC adapter". The "power supply" or "AC adapter" included is irrelevant for the problem at hand. A non-compliant device does not become compliant by including a compliant "power supply" or "AC adapter" in the box it is shipped in.

Concerning the thermal design: It is really in need if improvement. Does the charger have air inlets in the top of the case above the Al heatsink? If yes, then the first reasonable thing to do would be to seal the air vents at the sides of the bottom half of the case. If the fan creates a suction inside the case by blowing air out, it is rather pointless to suck in cool air from the outside just to blow it out again, without the air ever moving across those components which need cooling most. If this is done, it already may be a good improvement as the air vents at the bottom are most likely the biggest leaks. With those sealed, most of the air will likely enter at the vents above the heatsink, thus cooling it more effectively. Once inside the case, I do not see that much of a problem for the air moving to the fan. The holes in the PCB are not the only passage. We see a few mm gap of the PCB's outer edge and the plastic case. This way the air has enough room to enter the bottom half of the case below the PCB.
So, in conclusion, I would say the air can flow rather nicely from the top inlets over the heatsink into the bottom case to the fan. But this flow requires suction of the fan, which can not be provided if it moves air flowing in through the bottom vents.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> Mina are no enellops, are LowSelfDischarge, -1A|+1A it's ok? What about AAA 900mAh?


I can't speak for batteries are than Eneloops. I have some Varta Accu Ready2Use LSD, they cannot handle high currents, they perform poorly, basically they ****, so i don't care about their maintenance. For reconditioning 1-2yrs stored Eneloops i am recommending C>D at least 3-5x at high rates and then 1 or 2 Break_in's. For example:
C>D>C>D>C>D>C>D>C>D, then Break_in (C>D>C). If capacity still not up to expectations, then again Break_in (D>C>D). 

If i had Eneloop AAA's in storage, i'd do a similar procedure, with -0.4A/0.4A for the high rates.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



hey_tommy said:


> The way I see it, if they they want to stick with the current PCB layout, fan placement needs to change from the bottom of case to one of the sides, so that the fan is providing cross-flow across the components and is parallel with the heatsink fins. Put a fan on one of the sides to blow out hot air, and an air inlet grille on the opposite side - problem solved.



The best cooling design I've seen so far in chargers, is in EBC-A05 by ZKE Technology: two fans are working together; one feeds the ambient air into heatsink area, and second sucks it out. Let's see if it's possible to modify MC3000 to something similar...


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Julian Holtz said:


> Concerning the thermal design: It is really in need if improvement. Does the charger have air inlets in the top of the case above the Al heatsink? If yes, then the first reasonable thing to do would be to seal the air vents at the sides of the bottom half of the case. If the fan creates a suction inside the case by blowing air out, it is rather pointless to suck in cool air from the outside just to blow it out again, without the air ever moving across those components which need cooling most. If this is done, it already may be a good improvement as the air vents at the bottom are most likely the biggest leaks. With those sealed, most of the air will likely enter at the vents above the heatsink, thus cooling it more effectively. Once inside the case, I do not see that much of a problem for the air moving to the fan. The holes in the PCB are not the only passage. We see a few mm gap of the PCB's outer edge and the plastic case. This way the air has enough room to enter the bottom half of the case below the PCB.
> So, in conclusion, I would say the air can flow rather nicely from the top inlets over the heatsink into the bottom case to the fan. But this flow requires suction of the fan, which can not be provided if it moves air flowing in through the bottom vents.


There is some small vent in the top it looks like. I will try to discharge 4x18650 tonight and see what happens and how hot it will be. Time to mod maybe 
I´m happy with it so far and the price wasen´t so high so no problem.

Edit: It took 20min or so before the cut down started on the two first slots and the sys. temp where 84C. After 80min the voltage where 3,60 and it started to load 1amp on all slots again, almost 15w.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just saying, i have EBC-A05. It's got nice performance. Its pc link software is not too shabby, it allows composite programs for example. Also a very big unit with big fans.

And 1 channel.

Only.

So now please imagine, in the existing EBC-A as is, trying to install/implement one single spacious bay like the MC3000 slot #1. Aha? If you try to implement a nice slot in the EBC-A, then the big fans must leave because of lack of space.

Now take the iCharger 106B+. Sure has nice max discharger power. But it also hasn't got a single bay integrated in the charger. And the iCharger fan is "huge" and loud. Such a big fan does not fit into the chassis of the mc3k.

So comparing the MC3000 thermal performance with EBC-A5 or iCharger thermal performance, both single channel chargers without a single slot!, isn't erh comparable.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> So comparing the MC3000 thermal performance with EBC-A5 or iCharger thermal performance, both single channel chargers without a single slot!, isn't erh comparable.



Presence of embedded slot(s) is different thing. According to the pictures, implementation of similar air flow for MC3000 is quite simple task, and could be done by relocation of fan to the side wall: no major changes in the design required...


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

When using a thermo camera the fan is definitely doing a lot, even though the internal design may not be ideal.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> According to the pictures, implementation of similar air flow for MC3000 is quite simple task, and could be done by relocation of fan to the side wall: no major changes in the design required...


Other SKYRC chargers have this side in side out fan design yes and they are very effective yes. :naughty:


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

lol HKJ.

this looks like purchased retail units? :devil:


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> lol HKJ.
> 
> this looks like purchased retail units? :devil:



Correct!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i have more mc3k's. i win.






just kidding hh


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i have more mc3k's. i win.
> 
> just kidding hh



Try reposting the photo with only the final hardware, no alpha and beta version!


----------



## aekvulture

It seems no one read this post because it later added because of the pre-moderation lag. 


aekvulture said:


> Hi there. I found a small glitch.. The fan in the AUTO mode does not work properly. When the system temperature reaches 52C° dramatically increases the fan speed, temperature plummets to 51C°, the fan turns sharply resets the temperature rises again to 52C° ... and so on. As a result, I'm listening to the constant howling fans, more->less->more->less, and this is fast changes. As if someone indulges with the accelerator pedal in a car.
> Need to add hysteresis in the logic of the fan.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

BTW, where exactly system's thermal sensor is located?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> BTW, where exactly system's thermal sensor is located?



picture worth more than thousand words


----------



## _UPz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

pic


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I assume they are behind the silicone or thermal grease smear at the back of the heatsink.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



_UPz said:


> pic



Thank you!


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Julian Holtz said:


> I assume they are behind the silicone or thermal grease smear at the back of the heatsink.



Looks like it. Note 'RT1'--'RT6' marks for thermistors. 'RT3'--'RT6' are battery temperature sensors. 'RT1' and 'RT2' are 'glued' to the heatsink. On the picture RT1 has detached from heatsink during disassembly or due to improper job in a first place.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

IMHO, two sensors on heatsink is "too much"...  And according to already posted photos, it seems that air flow pictured on manufacturer's ads is far from reality:
http://www.skyrc.com/image/data/980px_en/MC3000/6.jpg


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Just saying, i have EBC-A05. It's got nice performance. Its pc link software is not too shabby, it allows composite programs for example. Also a very big unit with big fans. And 1 channel. Only.
> 
> So now please imagine, in the existing EBC-A as is, trying to install/implement one single spacious bay like the MC3000 slot #1. Aha? If you try to implement a nice slot in the EBC-A, then the big fans must leave because of lack of space.
> 
> Now take the iCharger 106B+. Sure has nice max discharger power. But it also hasn't got a single bay integrated in the charger. And the iCharger fan is "huge" and loud. Such a big fan does not fit into the chassis of the mc3k.
> 
> So comparing the MC3000 thermal performance with EBC-A5 or iCharger thermal performance, both single channel chargers without a single slot!, isn't erh comparable.



What's your point? What you wrote does not imply that it is impossible to have (much) higher discharge power in the MC3000. In fact I suspect that with more attention to thermal design one could greatly increase the discharge power. It appears to me that little (if any) thought was given to such matters. That's a major oversight. Hopefully there are not others. Time will tell...


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> In fact I suspect that with more attention to thermal design one could greatly increase the discharge power. It appears to me that little (if any) thought was given to such matters. That's a major oversight. Hopefully there are not others. Time will tell...



In addition to the thermal management, I think whole idea of sliding contacts isn't suitable for big currents here...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

A double spring design would be nice. No sliders but just thick copper springs on both sides. Like in a tactical flashlight the battery contacts, they also have double-side springs.

Or maybe i have a better idea for the next release, i'll study up on this thanks!


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



_UPz said:


> pic


WTH, there is a lurking Dino in the pic!


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

MC3000 Monitor froze during firmware update. (windows 7). Now blank screen on charger. What now?


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Wow, MG! Sorry to hear that.
Check responses to Cdm191's post 1200 earlier in the thread.

This is the second report of a bricked MC3K during FW update. I'd definitely wait for it to stabilize before trying to update mine.


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeah. Leaving the next one alone for sure. Another 2 week wait I'm sure.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just noticed that page 40 of the MC3000 Manual is full of Conformity Statements that it meets all requirements of the CE regulatory directive. I hope this helps. You don't need the Customs problem spoiling your enjoyment of the MC3000.



Julian Holtz said:


> I'm quite pissed right now. Reason is that the charger apparently does not meet the neccessary specifications for a trouble-free import. I just came back from the customs office, and they told me that the CE mark and a variety of other neccessary compliances are missing. They must be imprinted in a non-removable way on the charger, especially as a radio frequency device (blutooth) is built in. Now I have to wait until monday for a specialist to look at things, and worst case is that it is sent to the "Bundesnetzagentur" (Federal Network Agency), the german frequency GeStaPo. Someone with a direct contact to SkyRc should tell them that a lot of EU customers are in for a nasty surprise if they don't meet the regulations.
> A nameplate (which the charger is missing altogether) congruent with the regulations should look like this:
> 
> http://www.planet3dnow.de/photoplog/images/49821/1_corsair8.jpg
> 
> http://www.exp-tech.de/media/catalo...3525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/4/1466label_lrg.jpg


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

No problems with my update to v 1.3 using Win 8.1



Andrey said:


> Wow, MG! Sorry to hear that.
> Check responses to Cdm191's post 1200 earlier in the thread.
> 
> This is the second report of a bricked MC3K during FW update. I'd definitely wait for it to stabilize before trying to update mine.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



millguy said:


> Yeah. Leaving the next one alone for sure. Another 2 week wait I'm sure.



Are you getting a replacement from SkyRC/dealer or buying another one?


----------



## kappa7

cdm191 said:


> Thank you all for the rapid responses.
> 
> The update was performed within a Windows 10 Enterprise OS running the official SkyRc software under a Windows 7 compatibility environment.
> 
> No issues were experienced prior to initiating the update routine.
> 
> The update was initiated by selecting the update firmware option (following detection of the new v.1.03 firmware) transitioning the screen to its blank state immediately. At this point the update was then observed to flag up an "err.2 start vector" roughly 10% into the process (~5seconds in), terminating the update routine. Re-starting the update proved to be unsuccessful.
> The USB hardware is now no longer identifiable (previously a Custom HID device) and power cycling does not recover the charger to its original state. A blank illuminated screen is all that remains regardless of whether powered through the USB port or DC mains.
> 
> I have e-mailed SkyRc and will post an update here in due course.
> 
> Once again, many thanks for the rapid responses.



If the computer doesn't recognize anymore the USB port of the charger probably the only remedy will be to connect a USB to serial converter (with CMOS signal levels) to a service uart (if there are any...). BTW what brand and model of microcontroller does it uses?
Another chance may be to press a combination of buttons if:
1) SkyRC has implemented such emergency bootloader.. 
2) the USB bootloader is still there (it's not overwritten during the USB upgrade procedure).

I think that at the moment we have to wait an official reply from SKYRC


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

When NiMH Break_in (C>D>C) is finished, LCD reports charged capacity instead of discharged capacity. I've added it to de list of things.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Observed an interesting phenomena while testing my 6-year old AW IMR 16340 cells.

They were working acceptably in my high-current lights and accumulated around 50 cycles. Most powerful light drains about 2.5A.

So I decided to perform a discharge test with RC3K simulating similar conditions. Created a program to discharge with maximum current of 2.0A to 2.80V.

Half of the cells demonstrated horrible performance: program finished in less than a minute showing capacity under 50mAh.

Turns out these aged cells can not sustain a load of 2.0A longer than approximately two minutes and voltage drops too quickly for the meaningful capacity measurement.

OK. I set D.REDUCE parameter to 0.10A telling RC3K to start reducing current once target voltage of 2.80V is reached and stop discharge at 0.10A.

Now this happens. Charger does begin reducing current at 2.80V. But it does it much slower (at a rate of about 10 to 20 mA per second) than voltage of a weak battery drops. In an extreme case the voltage dropped to 0.54V before current reduction caught up with the cell performance! 







Not sure whether such behavior is a bug or a feature of the charger.

Interestingly, subsequent few cycles restore cell performance allowing to hold voltage much better in similar discharge test. Here are two more voltage diagrams of beginning stages of discharges of the same cell:
First 4 min of discharge 2 -- voltage drop to 2.09V;
First 4 min of discharge 3 -- voltage drop to 2.46V.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> Not sure whether such behavior is a bug or a feature of the charger.


Interesting. I tested D.REDUCE option on 18650 for 3.80v target (storage mode), coming from above (4.1v). I observed voltage, perfect graph. Result: 3.800V on my multimeter offline. 
You're testing a small cell. At high amps. And down to very low voltage cut-off. These are red bull conditions for a small cell. You're not beyond the battery operating range but you're at the extremities of the battery.

Try the same test with a nice 18650. 2A discharge, 0.1A d.reduce, 2.80V target. I am sure you will not experience the same anomaly in the graph. 

If a charger performs perfectly on battery1 (18650) and performs unexpectedly on battery2 (16340) for the identical test, then what do we conclude from the situation? More to blame the charger, the battery2, or the test parameters? I'll blame the test parameters and the battery2. Not the charger.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> If a charger performs perfectly on battery1 (18650) and performs unexpectedly on battery2 (16340) for the identical test. When what do we conclude from it?



That the charger has bad support for battery2


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Try the same test with a 18650. 2A discharge, 0.1A d.reduce, 3.80V target. I am sure you will not experience the same anomaly.



That is correct. I get a perfect graph showing voltage at or above 2.80V with healthy 16340s or larger cells. 




kreisl said:


> If a charger performs perfectly on battery1 (18650) and performs unexpectedly on battery2 (16340) for the identical test. When what do we conclude from it?



The charger performance is explainable.
Say we increase rate of the current reduction. Obviously, there still always be a battery so bad, that its voltage will be dropping faster than charger adjusts the discharge current.




kreisl said:


> I'll blame the test parameters and the battery2. Not the charger.



Of course. Charger executes a program as directed by its parameters and we observe the process in accordance with laws of physics and performance of the battery involved. 

In most of the cases, however, charger tries to stay safe. For example, by not allowing setting too low of a target discharge voltage.
Is it safe to let cell voltage drop to such extreme low values during discharge with high current?


----------



## aekvulture

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Opening the burnt power supply. In the last picture show traces of thermal effects inside the power supply.




















PS: *Kreisl,* please look at this POST


----------



## kreisl

aekvulture said:


> Hi there. I found a small glitch.. The fan in the AUTO mode does not work properly. When the system temperature reaches 52C° dramatically increases the fan speed, temperature plummets to 51C°, the fan turns sharply resets the temperature rises again to 52C° ... and so on. As a result, I'm listening to the constant howling fans, more->less->more->less, and this is fast changes. As if someone indulges with the accelerator pedal in a car.
> Need to add hysteresis in the logic of the fan.


I haven't tested AUTO fan yet. The hysteresis for manual setting is afaik 3°C, for example set to "50°C" will result in 47C=off, 48C=off, 49C=off, 50C=>on, 50C=on, temperature slowly declines, 49C=on, 48C=on, 47C=>off. On prototypes the hysteresis was 5°C, which resulted in a longer 'fan on'-time (when it was on) and possibly the 45C were not reached so the fan would stay on until nearing the end of the process. 3°C seems fine with me, it means that the fan will turn off earlier, because it is not needed anymore.

I have listed your feedback re the AUTO fan mode for them to reconsider, thanks!


----------



## -Archie-

I've heard, current version of PC software is unable to connect to the charger via Bluetooth. Probably, that issue should be fixed ASAP...


----------



## aekvulture

Yesterday tested 2 NiMH in Cycle mode. 2 cycles D>C. When the program ended, the display shows last *charge* capacity instead discharge. When using 1 cycle then it is logical to show the charging capacity, because battery could not be fully charged. However, with two cycles (or more) in a row it would be logical to display the last discharged capacity. Or am I wrong?


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aekvulture said:


> Opening the burnt power supply. In the last picture show traces of thermal effects inside the power supply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: *Kreisl,* please look at this POST


Holy smoke !!!! , (literally)


----------



## kreisl

aekvulture said:


> Yesterday tested 2 NiMH in Cycle mode. 2 cycles D>C. When the program ended, the display shows last *charge* capacity instead discharge. When using 1 cycle then it is logical to show the charging capacity, because battery could not be fully charged. However, with two cycles (or more) in a row it would be logical to display the last discharged capacity. Or am I wrong?


I haven't tested "D>C" Cycle mode yet. My favorite Cycle mode is "C>D", and in this mode all discharged capacities are available when the program has finished: one needs to enter SOV, by clicking on the green SNB.

But yes you are right. Any Cycle mode should make all (fully completed) discharged capacities available in SOV. Not in TOV!


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> Are you getting a replacement from SkyRC/dealer or buying another one?



I ordered another. Still waiting on a reply from HKE.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Anybody else have the loud grumbling fan at startup?

I started a slot 1 and 4 discharge of a couple 4.35v LiIons and heard a rather loud grumbling chainsaw noise from the MC3000 about 5 minutes in. It was the fan attempting to startup and it went on for about 10-15 seconds. 

I had the fan set to 45degrees C. 

I captured about 5 seconds of the noise by video but it was obvious that it was the fan trying to spin up. 

Anybody else hear this yet?


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have received my charger safely from GB. I would really appreciate a bit of user input as I am struggling a little I must admit. 

What I need it to do for me is the following. 

1. Discharge and then charge Nicd and NiMh cells. 
2. Charge my lithium rechargeable cells at the charge rate I select. 
3. Discharge and then recharge lithium cells so I can see if the capacity of the cells match. This is for lights that use two in series. 

What mode do I need for these three modes - dummy or simple? 
So far I have only been advised to 'check voltage' but it is hard to get past that.

Thank you for any help.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr?


----------



## aekvulture

kreisl said:


> I haven't tested "D>C" Cycle mode yet. My favorite Cycle mode is "C>D", and in this mode all discharged capacities are available when the program has finished: one needs to enter SOV, by clicking on the green SNB.
> 
> But yes you are right. Any Cycle mode should make all (fully completed) discharged capacities available in SOV. Not in TOV!



I am speaking about TOV. In SOV it's alternate all discharged cycles and last charged capacity.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aekvulture said:


> Opening the burnt power supply. In the last picture show traces of thermal effects inside the power supply.



Thanks for the pics. Can you explain how the power supply became burnt?


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
> Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr?



I did read the entire manual. Understanding all of it is a different matter


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
> Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr?



As a safety engineer I have to assess instructions as part of my job and I was pleased to see the safety precautions. They are very thorough. My only comment would be about page 4, the selection about dummy or simple modes. The difference between them is not explained apart from dummy mode support of two chemistries only. A table showing what parameters are available or adjustable in each of the three modes may be a useful addition.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
> Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr? 😜



I have the paginated manual on my Mac and also printed a full letter size paginated manual I put in a binder. It really helps to have the MC3000 to use when you refer to the manual. I now have both of my MC3000s and have both with the same programs installed. I have charged Eneloops, NiMH, and LiIon cells, and Refresed NiMH and LiIon cells. I had my 80th birthday on Dec 13, so the two MC3000 are a nice birthday present. I wrote a one page Quick Start Manual for myself that makes things very easy.


----------



## JB

Today was the first time I used the MC3000 to charge my Keeppower 3400mAh 18650 batteries.

The charging would terminate at 4.20V, but I noticed after a short period of rest the voltage settled down at 4.17V. Is this normal? Or should the voltage reading remain at 4.20V?


----------



## kreisl

aekvulture said:


> I am speaking about TOV. In SOV it's alternate all discharged cycles and last charged capacity.


oic
then it's correct like that. imo
tov shows capacity of last charge transfer routine,
and sov would show this and the other discharged capacities.


----------



## aekvulture

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Thanks for the pics. Can you explain how the power supply became burnt?


When I was charged 4 NiMH with current 1A power supply is strongly warmed up, and began to deform the plastic. Then I put it on the charging 4 Li-ion with currents of 1.5A, 30 minutes after that the charger is turned off and the power supply no signs of life. It seems that it was defective, as the new power unit under the same load is heated slightly.


----------



## kreisl

JB said:


> charging would terminate at 4.20V, but I noticed after a short period of rest the voltage settled down at 4.17V. Is this normal? Or should the voltage reading remain at 4.20V?


sounds normal. if you prefer more stable end voltage, you could lower the charge termination current. 

the lowest is Zero hehehe, see TERMINATION explanation in the manual ��


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Wow. This charger is insane. Here i thought battery chargers are good enough already lol. Been looking for a charger that charges all chemistries, but with the advancement of analyzing/refresh, backlit display. When is this out? Amazon does not appear to have this charger in stock.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Wow. This charger is insane. Here i thought battery chargers are good enough already lol. Been looking for a charger that charges all chemistries, but with the advancement of analyzing/refresh, backlit display. When is this out? Amazon does not appear to have this charger in stock.



It is already out, but only two shops got stock from the initial batch.


----------



## aekvulture

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have some strange readings on "Batt IR" parameter... I think its not normal. On one of the batteries was figure was 7232 m​​ Ω.​


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aekvulture said:


> I have some strange readings on "Batt IR" parameter... I think its not normal. On one of the batteries was figure was 7232 mΩ



Try removing the battery and putting it in again, then start the charger working, this will do another ohm measurement.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Anybody else have the loud grumbling fan at startup?
> 
> I started a slot 1 and 4 discharge of a couple 4.35v LiIons and heard a rather loud grumbling chainsaw noise from the MC3000 about 5 minutes in. It was the fan attempting to startup and it went on for about 10-15 seconds.
> 
> I had the fan set to 45degrees C.
> 
> I captured about 5 seconds of the noise by video but it was obvious that it was the fan trying to spin up.
> 
> Anybody else hear this yet?



Nobody else has this issue or has any concern about this issue? I know we are all worried about .01mv accuracy but things like cooling fans acting up in 2 days of light use are concerning also.


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> I just noticed that page 40 of the MC3000 Manual is full of Conformity Statements that it meets all requirements of the CE regulatory directive. I hope this helps. You don't need the Customs problem spoiling your enjoyment of the MC3000.



Yes, I hope this persuades the specialist viewing the charger on monday. I folded the manual to this side being at the front and put it directly on the charger, so it's the first thing to see upon opening the package.  Hope this will help...



Zanders said:


> There is some small vent in the top it looks like. I will try to discharge 4x18650 tonight and see what happens and how hot it will be. Time to mod maybe
> I´m happy with it so far and the price wasen´t so high so no problem.
> 
> Edit: It took 20min or so before the cut down started on the two first slots and the sys. temp where 84C. After 80min the voltage where 3,60 and it started to load 1amp on all slots again, almost 15w.



Thanks for that test. Could you be bothered repeating it with the downwards bottom vents at the sides closed shut with duct or scotch tape? This way the heatsink should experience increased air flow. A lower temperature in similar conditions would be proof of my theory that the downwards-facing vents work the opposite as intended.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aekvulture said:


> I have some strange readings on "Batt IR" parameter... I think its not normal. On one of the batteries was figure was 7232 m​​



Some of your batteries are probably not making good contact. When you insert batteries be sure to push down on the positive end of the battery to make sure it is not tilted in the slot. Until the negative contact pushes firmly against the battery, shorter batteries like AA or AAA are only supported for about one inch at the top. Look at the battery mounting surface with no batteries installed. Yoo can easily see the support area about one inch long around the temperature sensor and the other support area near the negative end of the slot. I learned this quickly, when some slots reported No Battery after I inserted small batteries.


----------



## aekvulture

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Some of your batteries are probably not making good contact.


I will try reinsert those batteries again when program is complete. But look at the foto (AAA), how about 1 _m__Ω ? _ 2 AAA GP's have 1 _m__Ω._ I reconnect them several times, but always got this result. I think that this IR is impossible.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aekvulture said:


> I will try reinsert those batteries again when program is complete. But look at the foto (AAA), how about 1 _m__Ω ? _ 2 AAA GP's have 1 _m__Ω._ I reconnect them several times, but always got this result. I think that this IR is impossible.



I have a few GP that have 1m_Ω _to, don´t know why, strange._
_


----------



## aekvulture

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

*Kreisl,* is it possible to extend the functionality? I would like to be able to measure the resistance did not start the program. Now, for this had to create a separate program with a minimum discharge current (0.05A), just to measure the resistance ... I think it's wrong and inconvenient.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> I have a few GP that have 1m_Ω _to, don´t know why, strange._
> _



When this kind of stuff happens, try once more and see if you get a more reasonable value.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have written a one page Quick Guide for Programming and Using the MC3000. This may help you become more proficient using your charger. I wrote this for myself but I wanted to share it with everyone. Thanks to HKJ for his suggestions.


PROGRAMMING AND USING THE MC3000

Decide what chemistry batteries you want to use. I chose Eneloop, Li-Ion, and NiMH. Write one program for one chemistry, inserting that type of battery in one slot. Then push the Slot Button to enter SPV, enter desired values, and Save to 01.

After that is done, go to Slot Programming View and change the program to some new characteristics, maybe Refresh rather than Charge. Specify the new parameters and Save to 02.

Continue this method for all the batteries of that Chemistry.

Insert a battery of a new chemistry, and change the program for the new chemistry and characteristic desired. Save to the next available program number.

Continue this method until you have created all the programs you desire.

To see what the various programs do, with no batteries in the slots, push any slot button. One program will appear. You can now scan thru all your programs by pushing the up and down buttons. Enough information is normally displayed so you can tell what each program number does without scanning the program.

Once you learn how to do this, you will be able to create six or seven programs in just a few minutes, and you can tell what the programs do by scanning thru the programs. I suggest you chose Advanced mode to have the most items appear.

Once you have all the programs you need and you can identify the program numbers easily, the MC3000 is very easy to use.

After you have easily created some some desired programs, proceed as follows to select the program and charge batteries.

Press Slot Number Key 1, use Arrow Keys to select program

Press Slot Number Key 2, use Arrow Keys to select program

Press Slot Number Key 3, use Arrow Keys to select program

Press Slot Number Key 4, use Arrow Keys to select program

Press and Hold Enter

To start charging on all slots press Enter
To start charging a specific slots, press and hold the Slot Number Key.

This method easy and fast to use. I hope you find it helpful.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> When this kind of stuff happens, try once more and see if you get a more reasonable value.



I did but same thing. I throwed them away and order some new eneloops instead yesterday, some of them got hot really fast. So far 12 batteries in the garbage can for batteries and more to come.


----------



## JB

kreisl said:


> sounds normal. if you prefer more stable end voltage, you could lower the charge termination current.
> 
> the lowest is Zero hehehe, see TERMINATION explanation in the manual ��



Thanks for the explanation. I was trying to understand the relationship between termination current, end voltage and capacity.

Anyway, I also found this useful table from HKJ: http://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryChargeVoltageCurrent UK.html


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I did read all of it. But this is a complicated bit of gear (and very nice too). I would find a step-by-step guide for writing programs such as the (only) four that are automatically selectable on the Maha 9000 very useful. Or alternatively, and even better, a firmware update that allows such programs to be selected.

It may be that this is already there but a bit buried. In any case, I am not complaining - this is a great bit of gear.




kreisl said:


> Did anybody manage to read the entire manual?
> Helpful info or too much engrish tl;dr? ��


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Happy Birthday for a few days ago.

Could you give us a step-by-step (ie., button-by-button) sequence for what you did?







billcushman said:


> I have written a one page Quick Guide for Programming and Using the MC3000. This may help you become more proficient using your charger. I wrote this for myself but I wanted to share it with everyone. Thanks to HKJ for his suggestions.
> 
> 
> PROGRAMMING AND USING THE MC3000
> 
> Decide what chemistry batteries you want to use. I chose Eneloop, Li-Ion, and NiMH. Write one program for one chemistry, inserting that type of battery in one slot. Then push the Slot Button to enter SPV, enter desired values, and Save to 01.
> 
> After that is done, go to Slot Programming View and change the program to some new characteristics, maybe Refresh rather than Charge. Specify the new parameters and Save to 02.
> 
> Continue this method for all the batteries of that Chemistry.
> 
> Insert a battery of a new chemistry, and change the program for the new chemistry and characteristic desired. Save to the next available program number.
> 
> Continue this method until you have created all the programs you desire.
> 
> To see what the various programs do, with no batteries in the slots, push any slot button. One program will appear. You can now scan thru all your programs by pushing the up and down buttons. Enough information is normally displayed so you can tell what each program number does without scanning the program.
> 
> Once you learn how to do this, you will be able to create six or seven programs in just a few minutes, and you can tell what the programs do by scanning thru the programs. I suggest you chose Advanced mode to have the most items appear.
> 
> Once you have all the programs you need and you can identify the program numbers easily, the MC3000 is very easy to use.
> 
> After you have easily created some some desired programs, proceed as follows to select the program and charge batteries.
> 
> Press Slot Number Key 1, use Arrow Keys to select program
> 
> Press Slot Number Key 2, use Arrow Keys to select program
> 
> Press Slot Number Key 3, use Arrow Keys to select program
> 
> Press Slot Number Key 4, use Arrow Keys to select program
> 
> Press and Hold Enter
> 
> To start charging on all slots press Enter
> To start charging a specific slots, press and hold the Slot Number Key.
> 
> This method easy and fast to use. I hope you find it helpful.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Happy Birthday for a few days ago.
> 
> Could you give us a step-by-step (ie., button-by-button) sequence for what you did?



Follow the Quick Start Guide on pages 4 thru 9 of the MC3000 Manual. Put the charger in Advance Mode and then create a Program following the Step by Step instructions on page 5 thru 8 of the Manual. You need to know what the chemistry of the battery is. Then probably select Charge. Select the charge current. If you have Eneloops, select Eneloop, chose the battery type (AA, AAA, or other choices that are available) and everything else is chosen for you. Once you create your first program follow the steps at the end of my guide and charge the battery. Once you follow the steps on pages 5 thru 9 and create your first program, everything else will become much easier.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Happy Birthday for a few days ago.
> 
> Could you give us a step-by-step (ie., button-by-button) sequence for what you did?



I think billcushman has already given some valuable guidance.

Now you should explore and try creating some programs, then I think you will understand better the guide given by billcushman.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The Video Tutorials that can be scanned in the Manual can easily be found on YouTube. Search for the following:

MC3000-1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSk5KtIHZ_M

MC3000-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL7i_gzhedI

MC3000-3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIj6GbgK-M0

I cannot imagine why they didn't include a better way to access the YouTube Videos rather than requiring us to scan to locate the video. The videos are very short, but will probably help those that are having trouble. The audio volume is so low as to be almost unusable.


----------



## diablo266

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Does anyone know how to mute the charge finished beeps? I figured out how to disable any button press noises, but it still beeps on charge complete which I really don't want late at night.


----------



## aekvulture

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



diablo266 said:


> Does anyone know how to mute the charge finished beeps? I figured out how to disable any button press noises, but it still beeps on charge complete which I really don't want late at night.


+100500 ! That night I woke up twice because of the end of charging (((


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aekvulture said:


> +100500 ! That night I woke up twice because of the end of charging (((



I send you a pm can you see and answer it? (I do not remember the limits for new users).


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi HKJ

Can you send me the same PM please? I am not a new user as you can see but my wife is threatening to strangle me if I don't stop the beeping!




HKJ said:


> I send you a pm can you see and answer it? (I do not remember the limits for new users).


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



diablo266 said:


> Does anyone know how to mute the charge finished beeps? I figured out how to disable any button press noises, but it still beeps on charge complete which I really don't want late at night.



+1

Being able to mute the completion beeps would be nice option to have. The beeps are quite loud!


----------



## scarnific

Maybe they could add a volume option and an on/off tune in the next firmware release. 
I didn't received mine so I cannot evaluate, but from what are you saying the tone it's too loud. I'm worried about my gf..if it's so she will kill me


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Setting global setup option 'Beep Tone' to OFF disabled completion beeps on mine. :shrug:
FW version 1.02. Maybe the bluetooth app connection affected this? If it is running and connected to charger when program finishes, app emits a sound. When disconnected, still charger is quiet on program completion.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Here is my take on the initial set up and usage of the MC3K. There are two holes in the user manual that are annoying and frustrating to get past. Especially if you are like me and you come home from a long days work and are trying to get this thing going. 

The number one hole in the manual is that it doesn’t do a good job defining where the “Dummy Mode” stops and the “Simple Mode” begins, e.g., I spent quite a bit of time looking for the “Refresh Mode” before I came on these forums and was told that you need to write a program in the “Simple Mode” in order to have any kind of “Refresh Mode”. The number one hole in the user manual is exacerbated by the number two hole in the manual.

The number two hole in the manual is that it does not give you instructions on how to go from zero programs created to one program created. Once a person has created the first program, then this charger becomes a whole lot easier.

Even in the video provided, it demonstrates how to create program number two. This is easy and probably doesn’t’ even need a video. The tricky part is going from zero programs created to one program created. There should be step by step instructions showing how to get to the area to do the initial program. 

I pecked around on the buttons until I accidentally figured out how to create my first program. I still do not know exactly what the procedure is and will never need to know unless I do a factory default reset. But for all those that are having trouble getting to the area to set up your first program, the instructions are not in the manual(as far as I could tell).


----------



## scarnific

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> Setting global setup option 'Beep Tone' to OFF disabled completion beeps on mine. :shrug:
> FW version 1.02. Maybe the bluetooth app connection affected this? If it is running and connected to charger when program finishes, app emits a sound. When disconnected, still charger is quiet on program completion.



I checked the manual and there is such option in GSV.. so maybe they missed it (like me when I readed the manual, sorry )


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Some useless  quick comments by me, taccato style:

- Bill thanks for the great write up for quick guidance!! :thumbsup:
- i will agree that the manual is mainly a reference for the program options, not even parameters!, rather than a user guide from zero for total beginners in the field. but hey, once you've taken the operation of the UI in, isn't it gratifying that you learned and mastered it somehow?  also understand that enough leeway had to be provided such that after future firmware updates, changes of UI, the manual would not have to be completely revised but still remain true.
- agreed the QR-code linked youtubes are super short and …
- the maker put much effort and optimization in the actual implementation of Batt IR measurement, especially in regard to time. better reproducible values could be computed but that would take 1-3sec more of your waiting time per(!) slot, see "Processing...." when you hit the START button for a ready slot. 4 ready slots, 8sec additional waiting time until the charging starts, nobody would find that acceptable. the measurement is also falsified by momentary battery temperature (a hot battery has a different IR than a cold battery, right?) and the 3 contact resistances (battery poles touching the metal contacts, and the slider touching the rail), so it's a real challenge after all to produce reproducible values in a 4-bay charger with sliders. All contacting areas should be re-cleaned and optimal contacting must be ensured — and i do all this for my IR tests. If a tester "just quickly inserts" the cell and "hits the IR button", the device will show very differing measurements every time the user re-inserts the battery for a follow-up IR measurement and the tester would blame the device, which wouldn't be fair.
- a separate function for Batt IR measurement? has been considered yet and they didn't come up with a convincing solution, maybe you can? Where should it be, in TOV, SPV, or GSV? Probably in TOV, or do you really need to have a new View for it? So how should it be invoked in TOV? For a newly inserted battery, both clicking and depressing the SNB is already occupied. Maybe depressing the UP and DOWN buttons together could invoke the IR measurement for all the ready slots and take the aforementioned extra ~2sec time per(!) slot for higher reproducibility? And the _m__Ω_-values would be displayed in the respective TOV rows for a few seconds only, even though the TOV columns continue to say CURR and mAh, yah? Off the top of my nutty squirrel that'd be one spontaneous idea. Maybe not the worst but also not the best. Got any better _concrete _idea for implementation? Just saying 'i want dis an dat' without ausmaling how it could be agreeably implemented/realized in concrete detail, isn't helpful to the maker. yes, i'd like separate IR measurement too. so i am listing my own idea haha.
- the Dummy mode came into firmware and manual last minute by idea of Fernando, as an afterthought. I exclusively use Advanced Mode. Imho more fun.
- the beeping … maybe you guys found a bug. I can't remember having heard any beeping upon program completion after i had set it to OFF in GSV. At night, i always sleep with earplugs. No matter where i am. I can't stand hearing my own breathing or rustling of the sheets.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> - a separate function for Batt IR measurement? has been considered yet and they didn't come up with a convincing solution, maybe you can? Where should it be, in TOV, SPV, or GSV? Probably in TOV, or do you really need to have a new View for it? So how should it be invoked in TOV? For a newly inserted battery, both clicking and depressing the SNB is already occupied. Maybe depressing the UP and DOWN buttons together could invoke the IR measurement for all the ready slots and take the aforementioned extra ~2sec time per(!) slot for higher reproducibility? And the _m__Ω_-values would be displayed in the respective TOV rows for a few seconds only, even though the TOV columns continue to say CURR and mAh, yah? Off the top of my nutty squirrel that'd be one spontaneous idea. Maybe not the worst but also not the best. Got any better _concrete _idea for implementation? Just saying 'i want dis an dat' without ausmaling how it could be agreeably implemented/realized in concrete detail, isn't helpful to the maker. yes, i'd like separate IR measurement too. so i am listing my own idea haha.
> - the Dummy mode came into firmware and manual last minute by idea of Fernando, as an afterthought. I exclusively use Advanced Mode. Imho more fun.



kreisl, separate IR measure you mean (I think) to make a measure with a little discharge pulse (as happen for example in B6-MINI) ?
I think it should be in TOV, after battery was inserted, maybe by simultaneous pressing of SNB+ENTER or SNB+STOP ?

PS: many thanks to have sponsored the Dummy_mode. It is the only way I can persuade some my friends vapers to get one MC3K :naughty:


----------



## scarnific

Probably I would wait 2/3 seconds/slot to have a better IR measure.
But maybe, would be possible to add a new program only for IR measurement? So a fast IR measure like now and a more precise one with a program?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> maybe by simultaneous pressing of SNB+ENTER or SNB+STOP ?


Hmmm. The disadvantage of SNB+? pressing would be 1) mis-pressing (ENTER=>START, STOP=>STOP), and 2) multiple presses, for example at least 4 double-presses for a bay with 4 ready slots.

I still see my idea (UP+DOWN) ahead: just 1 double-press and you get all 4 readings (after 8sec of waiting time) at once, and if mis-pressed, nothing bad happens.





scarnific said:


> Probably I would wait 2/3 seconds/slot to have a better IR measure.
> But maybe, would be possible to add a new program only for IR measurement? So a fast IR measure like now and a more precise one with a program?


Hmmm. Thinkable would be to introduce another official Operation Mode: Charge, …, Break_in,* Batt IR*. That operation mode would have 0.00/-0.00A for the charge transfer rates and most other options fixed OFF's. So you could create a program PROGRAM[01] which runs like a normal program (red SNB->green SNB) and which does nothing but measuring IR by taking as much time as needed, e.g. 3-7sec including self-repeated measurements, of course. But hey, that's imho not a more elegant idea than the UP+DOWN in TOV ymmv.


-Archie- said:


> With existing mechanical design of contacts, precise measurement of milliohm values is impossible...


Very true. 

Does HKJ like the IR measurement so far?


----------



## -Archie-

scarnific said:


> Probably I would wait 2/3 seconds/slot to have a better IR measure. But maybe, would be possible to add a new program only for IR measurement? So a fast IR measure like now and a more precise one with a program?


 With existing mechanical design of contacts, precise measurement of milliohm values is impossible...


----------



## scarnific

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Hmmm. Thinkable would be to introduce another official Operation Mode: Charge, …, Break_in,* Batt IR*. That operation mode would have 0.00/-0.00A for the charge transfer rates and most other options fixed OFF's. So you could create a program PROGRAM[01] which runs like a normal program (red SNB->green SNB) and which does nothing but measuring IR by taking as much time as needed, e.g. 3-7sec including self-repeated measurements, of course. But hey, that's imho not a more elegant idea than the UP+DOWN in TOV ymmv.



Yes, you are right. I think your idea would be simple and effective.. better than a new operation mode or a program.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

After I discharged four EagleTac 3400 18650 batteries at 1A, I proceeded to charge them at 3A, but the display indicated a charge rate of .15A. I modified the charge rate and even tried the second charger, always with the same results. Finally after a few frustrating minutes I decided that the 18650 protection circuit must have tripped (it had not tripped, the charger entered a deeply discharged battery mode explained by Kreisl in a later post), so I waited while the MC3000 was charging at .15A. After about 5 minutes the charge rate on one battery increased to the normal value. In about 10 minutes the other 3 18650s returned to the normal charge rate. Hopefully, my experience will prevent others from being frustrated by the same symptoms.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> I pecked around on the buttons until I accidentally figured out how to create my first program. I still do not know exactly what the procedure is and will never need to know unless I do a factory default reset. But for all those that are having trouble getting to the area to set up your first program, the instructions are not in the manual(as far as I could tell).



I'm sorry you are having so much trouble. Please read step 5 on page 5 of the manual. Print out pages 4 thru 9 of the Manual. If you have Eneloops and 18650s, create one program to charge Eneloop and one program to charge Li-Ion. Use the charger and try to get more familiar with it. I suggest Advanced Mode because it offers more options than Simple Mode and you can skip most of the items you don't need to change. As you become more familiar with the charger you can modify the two programs you have created by changing Charge to Refresh, setting the Charge and Discharge Values and save both as two new programs. Once you have some batteries charging, push the Up Arrow, the display will change to Diagram Drawing View. Push the Up Arrow again to see the other slots. Push Enter to return to Total Over View. After you learn a little more, explore more of the Manual.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> After I discharged four EagleTac 3400 18650 batteries at 1A, I proceeded to charge them at 3A, but the display indicated a charge rate of .15A. I modified the charge rate and even tried the second charger, always with the same results. Finally after a few frustrating minutes I decided that the 18650 protection circuit must have tripped, so I waited while the MC3000 was charging at .15A. After about 5 minutes the charge rate on one battery increased to the normal value. In about 10 minutes the other 3 18650s returned to the normal charge rate. Hopefully, my experience will prevent others from being frustrated by the same symptoms.


Good observation of a correct firmware code. :thumbsup:

Btw has anybody already tested the manual release of tripped protections, that is 0V liion batteries? It's mentioned in the manual somewhere as a side note :devil:


----------



## andrewnewman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So I'm slowly convincing myself I can't live without this charger. (Since I'm doing it *slowly* I anticipate I'll be fully convinced sometime in February or March ).
In the meantime, is there any chance that the manual is available online somewhere. I'm sort of dying to read it (even if it is really a reference) to better understand the myriad of options.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I checked on the SKYRC website, buy under the manual tab, there is nothing to download.

John.



andrewnewman said:


> So I'm slowly convincing myself I can't live without this charger. (Since I'm doing it *slowly* I anticipate I'll be fully convinced sometime in February or March ).
> In the meantime, is there any chance that the manual is available online somewhere. I'm sort of dying to read it (even if it is really a reference) to better understand the myriad of options.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> MC3000 will charge LiIon batteries of an online voltage lower than 3.30V (or 3.20 or 3.40, i totally forgot!) with only 0.15A. Let's call it "soft charging of deeply discharged batteries". Once this threshold has been reached, the user set charge rate (>0.15A) will be employed



This is known as _precharging _and has been discussed here before. That is a bit more conservative (so slower) than many precharge algorithms.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Hmmm. Thinkable would be to introduce another official Operation Mode: Charge, …, Break_in,* Batt IR*. That operation mode would have 0.00/-0.00A for the charge transfer rates and most other options fixed OFF's. So you could create a program PROGRAM[01] which runs like a normal program (red SNB->green SNB) and which does nothing but measuring IR by taking as much time as needed, e.g. 3-7sec including self-repeated measurements, of course. But hey, that's imho not a more elegant idea than the UP+DOWN in TOV ymmv.



very nice idea.
Do you mean one IR measure program shared among all available chemistries ? is it possible to do so ?
otherwise if it were to be chemistry specialized IR measure program , it will result on waste of available programs, doesnt it ?

My 30 programs are near to be all occupied.

LiIon, Li4.35, LiFe, NiMh, Eneloop, NiNz, are my chemistries
Charge slow, Charge Fast , Discharge, Storage/BreakIn are my programmed algos
Combination are a lot, consuming programs.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

(no food)


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Batt IR measurement is independent of chemistry.



But not independent of state-of-charge, temperature, etc. Which of the many proposed methods of IR measurement is employed?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

(no food)


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> The standard one.



There is no "standard" method to measure IR (I've encountered well over 10 methods in use). Do you know what method the MC3000 uses?


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> No, no programs, and no operation mode. Keep it simple, just the UP+DOWN button, that's it unless you have a more convincing idea. Batt IR measurement is independent of chemistry.



ok, understood. up+down is very good choice. I have not better to offer at this time.

This IR measure to be implement will keep count of cells caracteristics ?

if it will be a discharge pulse, cells supply current capacity it does not matter ?

Other than, I know there are on the market chargers that measure IR on charge phase, other on discharge phase, other on both.
Reading values are sometimes different.
What is the current IR measure algo ? What will be the future algo ?


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



andrewnewman said:


> In the meantime, is there any chance that the manual is available online somewhere. I'm sort of dying to read it (even if it is really a reference) to better understand the myriad of options.



From post 774: http://pf.kh.ua/other/SkyRC_MC3000_manual.pdf
However, there is a controversy regarding its authenticity. I checked a couple of random pages and they match my hard copy exactly.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

(no food)


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

(no food)


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Please have the courtesy to explain what you mean by the "standard method". There are too many methods in use to infer such a unique denotation.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

(no food)


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Do you not wish to reveal the method?



Let me add the first two methods, then you can add the other eight: http://lygte-info.dk/info/Internal impedance UK.html
Or are you going to avoid publishing information again.




Quote modified by me to keep things civil.

Tom


----------



## andrewnewman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> From post 774: http://pf.kh.ua/other/SkyRC_MC3000_manual.pdf
> However, there is a controversy regarding its authenticity. I checked a couple of random pages and they match my hard copy exactly.



Excellent. Thanks much!


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Duplicate post deleted


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Please read step 5 on page 5 of the manual.



I see where my problem was. On page 5, at the very bottom, it says to press and hold enter. I just pressed enter, without the hold part.

If you use the online manual that is floating around(like I was), in the graphic on page 5, it doesn’t tell you to press and hold. You have to go down to the written text. 

In the printed manual, that comes with the charger, it has been refined to include the “press and hold” instructions in the graphic. I think this is the first report of a difference between that online manual and the hard copy supplied by SkyRC. Subtle but fairly significant.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

How much max temp for NiMh when charging? The temp is 10 C off according to the ir meter. As it is now it cuts off 45degr C and the battery is appr. 55C.

Edit: AA that is, I think it´s more difference with smaller AAA because of less contact with the heat sensor in the charger. No problem, just meter it once and then you know what to set in the menu.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> How much max temp for NiMh when charging? The temp is 10 C off according to the ir meter. As it is now it cuts off 45degr C and the battery is appr. 55C.


my eneloops dont get hot.
Do your batteries have high resistance or at which rate are u charging? 55C is hot!!

Much is being said about BattTemp in the manual why the reading is not reliable etc


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Let me add the first two methods, then you can add the other eight: http://lygte-info.dk/info/Internal impedance UK.html



There are many such methods, including many variations on the simple DC methods that you describe there (these are often called _current interruption_ or _current injection_ methods). Obvious web searches will quickly locate much literature on the topic, for example Comparison of Several Methods for Determining the Internal Resistance of Lithium Ion Cells, by Hans-Georg Schweiger et al.

In any case, this is not the appropriate thread for a tutorial on such esoteric matters. But it is the appropriate place to inquire about the specific algorithm employed in this charger. Alas, I cannot infer this from kreisl's vague answers so far ("standard" and "no food"). If anyone who owns the charger can reverse engineer the algorithm used to calculate IR then please do post your results here.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> my eneloops dont get hot.
> Do your batteries have high resistance or at which rate are u charging? 55C is hot!!
> 
> Much is being said about BattTemp in the manual why the reading is not reliable etc


It´s my old batteries, some of them are crap, just sorting them out. If I set it at 40c it will be 50c, is 50c acceptable for NiMh?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> There are many such methods, including many variations on the simple DC methods that you describe there (these are often called _current interruption_ or _current injection_ methods). Obvious web searches will quickly locate much literature on the topic, for example Comparison of Several Methods for Determining the Internal Resistance of Lithium Ion Cells, by Hans-Georg Schweiger et al.



DC methods are basically a requirement for IR measurement, AC methods measures impedance.
Web searches will give lots of hits and most of them will just be a repeat of the two methods I showed.



Gauss163 said:


> If anyone who owns the charger can reverse engineer the algorithm used to calculate IR then please do post your results here.



The method used will be fairly obvious when I publish my review, but not the math used.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> DC methods are basically a requirement for IR measurement, AC methods measures impedance.
> Web searches will give lots of hits and most of them will just be a repeat of the two methods I showed.



As I remarked, even within DC methods there are many variations - by no means a "repeat" of the very simple methods in your link. For example, some methods use a _combination _of current injection and and interruption, and make various adjustments depending on context (temperature, state-of-charge, steady-stateness, etc). The more sophisticated methods are _essential _in certain contexts (e.g. accuracy of some fuel gauges depend crucially on such matters, e.g. look up TI's impedance-tracking fuel gauge algorithm).

Most likely the MC3000 is using one of the simpler methods, but it would be helpful to know the precise details because that may allow one to use it more effectively.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> As I remarked, even within DC methods there are many variations - by no means a "repeat" of the very simple methods in your link. For example, some methods use a _combination _of current injection and and interruption, and make various adjustments depending on context (temperature, state-of-charge, steady-stateness, etc). The more sophisticated methods are _essential _in certain contexts (e.g. accuracy of some fuel gauges depend crucially on such matters, e.g. look up TI's impedance-tracking fuel gauge algorithm).


I said that a *search* would *mostly* be a repeat of the methods I describe, but you most obvious has some much better search terms when you do not see that.
And why do you start writing about "impedance-tracking", please check the difference between resistance and impedance.



Gauss163 said:


> Most likely the MC3000 is using one of the simpler methods, but it would be helpful to know the precise details because that may allow one to use it more effectively.



All chargers with resistance measurements are using simple *DC* methods, also the MC3000.


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello Gauss163,

You listed a reference to a paper.

Looking at the conclusions I find this

"Determining the internal resistance by the voltage drop after a short delay after the start of a current pulse is a fast and convenient method for the measurement of internal resistance during storage tests, cell benchmarks and other highly automated cell screening purposes. Since values generated by these method are conform to the values from energy loss methods, they can replace the time consuming energy loss methods by a fast and easy method, speeding up the development process of energy storage devices for automotive applications."

It would appear that while there are a variety of methods one can use to determine internal resistance, the fast and easy method yields results that are comparable with the other methods. I would venture a guess that this charger uses some variation of the fast and easy method and the results would be acceptable for our (non automotive) hobby applications.

I am looking forward to HKJ's review to shed additional light on this.

Tom


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> And why do you start writing about "impedance-tracking", please check the difference between resistance and impedance.



Because that is the official name that Texas Instruments has given to their ubiquitous algorithm (which is employed in the majority of fuel gauges). I'll pass along your critique to the TI engineers - they will surely get a good chuckle out of that. But maybe the "no food" algorithm will end up taking the cake...


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Because that is the official name that Texas Instruments has given to their ubiquitous algorithm (which is employed in the majority of fuel gauges). I'll pass along your critique to the TI engineers - they will surely get a good chuckle out of that. But maybe the "no food" algorithm will end up taking the cake...



They may have had some non-technical people decide the name.
Their algorithm looks to be the absolute simplest way to measure RI (voltage_drop/current), with the added complexity that they do not know the voltage_drop, but has to estimate it based on a table and some parameters.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> All chargers with resistance measurements are using simple *DC* methods, also the MC3000.



Not true for some (pro) chargers that I have worked with. But it would come as no surprise to me that the MC3000 implementation of IR measurement is no better than that in the cheaper chargers like the Opus BT-C3100 or Lii-500. But with all the "DreamCharger" hype, and 5x the cost, who can blame one for hoping that it might prove to be better. After recently seeing above the very poor thermal design of the MC3000, I could not help but wonder whether the IR measurement may actually be _worse _than in cheaper chargers. Hence my original query (which remains unanswered).



HKJ said:


> They may have had some non-technical people decide the name [Impedance Tracking]


Highly unlikely given the wide use of "impedance" by TI's scientists and engineers in their literature on the algorithm (e.g. see the links here).


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

...just in case you´ve not found it, here´s a copy of the "paginated" manual:

https://filetea.me/t1sG4WhZNRQQVCtemAYebWMBA



andrewnewman said:


> So I'm slowly convincing myself I can't live without this charger. (Since I'm doing it *slowly* I anticipate I'll be fully convinced sometime in February or March ).
> In the meantime, is there any chance that the manual is available online somewhere. I'm sort of dying to read it (even if it is really a reference) to better understand the myriad of options.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Not true for some (pro) chargers that I have worked with. But it would come as no surprise to me that the MC3000 implementation of IR measurement is no better than that in the cheaper chargers like the Opus BT-C3100 or Lii-500. But with all the "DreamCharger" hype, and 5x the cost, who can blame one for hoping that it might prove to be better. After recently seeing above the very poor thermal design of the MC3000, I could not help but wonder whether the IR measurement may actually be _worse _than in cheaper chargers. Hence my original query (which remains unanswered).



You do not know if it is better or not and you do not know how good the thermal design is (What is the battery temperature during discharge). It might/is possible to make better solutions, but that is not that important, was is important is how well the current solution works.


----------



## az2ak

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



retrocon said:


> i'm on 6s and iOS 9.2, the app seems to close down, but i noticed it remains a "black screen of death" in the background of the iPhone. So it does not work. The MC3000 starts up, the blue bluetooth light goes on for a few seconds, no connection ever happens, tried several "orders," like phone->charger, charger->phone, clicking the more devices in bluetooth. i think we might be out of luck until an upgrade.



I'm also on 6s and iOS 9.2, app and bluetooth both work fine.. I did notice the app icon changed after I upgraded iOS the other night, it did not work before.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I need to ask you guys that already received the charger if is it possible to export the log from charger to computer or I have to have the computer ON and connected to the charger to save logs? Thanks


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi there Gauss163 / HKJ / kreisl and of course all who are reading !

Albeit this is no direct reply to your post, i´m also thinking in more deeper understanding of the algorithms used in the different stages of the MC3Ks modes...

Don´t get me wrong, i have no intension in reverse-engineering somewhat with the touch of piracy or something illegal in mind - herewith my only intention also would be more deeper look inside this (IMHO) great charger.
First i had to admit that i´m (also) one of this... let me say... "special kind of earthlings who are related in flashaholic / cell / charger stuff" - i´m using a MAHA C9000 & C800S, a MEC AV4m, a Nitecore D4, and finally the SkyRCs NC2500 & MC3000... And YES, mountains of different cells...

As every charger got his own special features and algos, why the MC3000 should be different ?!? Ok, one thing while announcing a new electronic device is always the marketing strategy, on the other hand i totally agree with you that the method of calculating IR must be simple here within...

Let´s face it, the MC3000 is a great charger for the buck - opinions may be different ;-) I´m shure there will be a lot of firmware updates available for the MC3000, as the charger "hit the streets" some days ago only (including shipping time). Also please keep in mind that as an "early adopter" it´s always possible to receive a product which has been "pretty rushed"... I don´t know where i´ve read it, but times ago someone in another forum wrote something like "...if you compare the majority of actual chargers amongst, you could be lead to the opinion that there only are a handful of origin charger manufacturers selling their base products and a specialized SDK to many many... many different other sellers, who a least are labeling their products specifically and throwing on the marketing spiral - like all others also do ;-) 

As (nearly) all internal electronical parts of the MC3000 are documented (...if i remember correctly the first post was on a russian forum ?!?) it should be easy to locate where the firmware (factory mode) is stored in. Whilst beside taking a short look on projects like the open source "stawel / cheali charger" open source firmware for the IMAX B6 charger on github, someone possibly might notice that most of the firmwares used (up today) in a majority of chargers are not so different ;-) Of course this has nothing to do with the calculation methods of the IR, you can see in post #108 kreisl did show up the common equals between nearly all listed chargers, although this post meant to originally discuss another technical aspect...

...and YES, i also would like to see the firmware of the MC3000 reversed - i got the deep confession that it will not last long until someone put the corresponding hex-file(s) or the algorithm used to calculate IR online... 




Gauss163 said:


> There are many such methods, including many variations on the simple DC methods that you describe there (these are often called _current interruption_ or _current injection_ methods). Obvious web searches will quickly locate much literature on the topic, for example Comparison of Several Methods for Determining the Internal Resistance of Lithium Ion Cells, by Hans-Georg Schweiger et al.
> 
> In any case, this is not the appropriate thread for a tutorial on such esoteric matters. But it is the appropriate place to inquire about the specific algorithm employed in this charger. Alas, I cannot infer this from kreisl's vague answers so far ("standard" and "no food"). If anyone who owns the charger can reverse engineer the algorithm used to calculate IR then please do post your results here.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The [TI impendance-tracking fuel gauge] algorithm looks to be the absolute simplest way to measure RI (voltage_drop/current), with the added complexity that they do not know the voltage_drop, but has to estimate it based on a table and some parameters.



It's much more sophisticated than that, incorporating some of the context-dependent ideas that I alluded to briefly above. You can find a readable account of a simple version of the algorithm in Chapter 5 of: Y. Barsukov and J. Qian, Battery Power Management for Portable Devices, 2013. If that is not accessible then there is an older summary online in Challenges and Solutions in Battery Fuel Gauging, by Yevgen Barsukov.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> I need to ask you guys that already received the charger if is it possible to export the log from charger to computer or I have to have the computer ON and connected to the charger to save logs? Thanks


And i would like to know if it is possible to use the Skyrc WiFi module to connect to the computer and also print the log directly to my WLAN printer? Thanks 

It was included in my package and i don't know wtf etc


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Here is an alternative version of the Quick Guide. It is applicable for one slot or all slots.


PROGRAMMING AND USING THE SKYRC MC3000

Decide what chemistry batteries you want to use. I chose Eneloop, Li-Ion, and NiMH. Write one program for one chemistry, inserting that type of battery in one slot. Then push the Slot Button to enter SPV, enter desired values, and Save to 01.

After that is done, go to Slot Programming View and change the program to some new characteristics, maybe Refresh rather than Charge. Specify the new parameters and Save to 02.

Continue this method for all the batteries of that Chemistry.

Insert a battery of a new chemistry, and change the program for the new chemistry and characteristic desired. Save to the next available program number.

Continue this method until you have created all the programs you desire.

To see what the various programs do, with no batteries in the slots, push any slot button. One program will appear. You can now scan thru all your programs by pushing the up and down buttons. Enough information is normally displayed so you can tell what each program number does without scanning the program.

Once you learn how to do this, you will be able to create six or seven programs in just a few minutes, and you can tell what the programs do by scanning thru the programs. I suggest you chose Advanced mode to have the most items appear.

Once you have all the programs you need and you can identify the program numbers easily, the MC3000 is very easy to use.

After you have easily created some some desired programs, proceed as follows to select the program and charge batteries.

Push the Slot Number Button on any empty slot you plan to use.

Push the Up and Down buttons to select the desired program number. Enough program information is displayed to identify the program properties (charge, refresh, NiMH, LiIon, etc).

Push and hold the Enter Button. The program you selected in the previous step is assigned to the slot you plan to use.

If you want to set all slots to this program skip the step above and instead just Click on Enter.

Scroll down to the last item on the page (it should be the slot number).

Click on the Up Button (the last item should now read slots).

Push and Hold Enter

Insert a battery in the slot(s) you plan to use.

Click the Enter Button. Processing is displayed and the desired operation begins on the installed battery.

This method is easy and fast to use. I hope you find it helpful.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Hmmm. The disadvantage of SNB+? pressing would be 1) mis-pressing (ENTER=>START, STOP=>STOP), and 2) multiple presses, for example at least 4 double-presses for a bay with 4 ready slots.
> 
> I still see my idea (UP+DOWN) ahead: just 1 double-press and you get all 4 readings (after 8sec of waiting time) at once, and if mis-pressed, nothing bad happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Thinkable would be to introduce another official Operation Mode: Charge, …, Break_in,* Batt IR*. That operation mode would have 0.00/-0.00A for the charge transfer rates and most other options fixed OFF's. So you could create a program PROGRAM[01] which runs like a normal program (red SNB->green SNB) and which does nothing but measuring IR by taking as much time as needed, e.g. 3-7sec including self-repeated measurements, of course. But hey, that's imho not a more elegant idea than the UP+DOWN in TOV ymmv.
> 
> Very true.
> 
> Does HKJ like the IR measurement so far?


Great ideas!

Il would do Both, the 2 button press and the IR mode... Don't forget people don't read the manual....


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Wow this has got to be the longest thread. i so can't wait until i get this charger. I thought i placed the order. Turns out. i wasn't charged GB is starting to annoy me. Looks like they ship to US. I will admit their site is kind of confusing. What is up with all these shipping methods


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I am noticing that the firmware update function (in PCLS) has stopped working under WinXP. Turns out that sky has pulled the fw binary from the update server for the time being. According to user reports the updating procedure didn't seem safe or reliable on Win10, Win10 in Win7 compatibility modus, or even Win7 itself. Some users under Win7, Win8, Win10 managed somehow to come through, but few others failed and ended up with a bricked charger.



I am guessing that some of the broken units could be salvaged by a company engineer thru a hard reset (or similar) procedure, for which the device _may _need to be disassembled and then connected to a bootstrap loader or sum ting. But i don't know the exact procedure because it is not documented in the manual and i wouldn't understand it if someone showed it to me. :ironic:

Since the binary is gone, no harm can be inflicted by employing PCLS purely as logger. While the binary is gone, i am sure that peeps are working on a revised PCLS version.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Order from HKE. They are better anyway and mine was packaged really well.



MarioJP said:


> Wow this has got to be the longest thread. i so can't wait until i get this charger. I thought i placed the order. Turns out. i wasn't charged GB is starting to annoy me. Looks like they ship to US. I will admit their site is kind of confusing. What is up with all these shipping methods


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Order from HKE. They are better anyway and mine was packaged really well.



Yeah, this looks like a much better site. All i want is to get the charger shipped already. Instead, nothing but frustrating shopping experience with GB. I am very patient. I've lost it with this site lol. I even asked questions of their shipment methods. their 24 hour chat does not work. its always "too busy".


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

...if someone still own a MC3000 with the firmware delivered (e.g. 1.02) and did not update until now, another solution would be to "wiresharking" the update through USB connection using the windows version, not the Bluetooth ?!?




kreisl said:


> I am noticing that the PCLS firmware update procedure has stopped working under WinXP. Turns out that sky has pulled the fw binary for the time being. According to user reports the updating procedure didn't seem safe or reliable on Win10, Win10 in Win7 compatibility modus, or even Win7 itself. Some users under Win7, Win8, Win10 managed somehow to come through, others failed and ended up with a bricked charger.
> 
> 
> 
> I am guessing that some of the broken units could be salvaged by a company engineer thru a hard reset (or similar) procedure, for which the device may need to be disassembled and then connected to a bootstrap loader or sum ting. But i don't know the exact procedure because it is not documented in the manual and i wouldn't understand it if someone showed it to me. :ironic:
> 
> Since the binary is gone, no harm can be inflicted by employing PCLS purely as logger. While the binary is gone, i am sure that peeps are working on a revised PCLS version.


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Although many users prefer HK, my purchase (first ever from GearBest) went absolutely smoothly ;-)

They shipped within nearly a week, parcels has been sent from Shenzen -> Hongkong -> London -> Germany, they put an total amount of 22$ outside to fullfill the duanes requirements !



MarioJP said:


> Yeah, this looks like a much better site. All i want is to get the charger shipped already. Instead, nothing but frustrating shopping experience with GB. I am very patient. I've lost it with this site lol. I even asked questions of their shipment methods. their 24 hour chat does not work. its always "too busy".


----------



## retrocon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



az2ak said:


> I'm also on 6s and iOS 9.2, app and bluetooth both work fine.. I did notice the app icon changed after I upgraded iOS the other night, it did not work before.



You are correct, it works now. And, the icon changed with the upgrade. The app at the app store was upgraded. Good customer support.

i did notice that i cannot have both the iphone and the pcls running at the same time. No matter, i'm loving the charger. Overkill for my needs, but satisfies the technojunkie in me.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

In the pdf manual. It says that ram alkaline support is in there but permanently hidden from the menu?


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You may unhide (or hide unused battery chemistries) in the global setup.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> You may unhide (or hide unused battery chemistries) in the global setup.



No, you need some special code from SkyRC


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

it does not work for RAM


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> it does not work for RAM



True. Should've tried it before posting. Left for the future, I guess.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> Left for the future, I guess.



Some people do not bother reading the manual or this thread.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Some people do not bother reading the manual or this thread.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The longest manual i have ever read for a battery charger. That's how one knows that this is a good charger. Now on the error section. I was a bit concerned where it says. "Battery is too poor cells might be rejected" i hope its not going to be like those finicky chargers where cells are rejected but charges fine in other chargers This is the most annoying thing.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I was a bit concerned where it says. "Battery is too poor cells might be rejected" i hope its not going to be like those finicky chargers where cells are rejected but charges fine in other chargers This is the most annoying thing.



It is not a problem with LiIon, my oldest test cell was charged without problems. I do not have any real bad NiMH cells to test with.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This video shows how to create a program step by step with narration in English. It should help those who are having trouble. Remember to look at the manual page 5, step 5, if you are in Dummy Mode and need to change it to Simple or Advanced mode (required to enter a program). I suggest Advanced because it give more options. The programming instruction starts at 6 minutes and continues to about 9 1/2 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks8pmYw2pqU


----------



## Anders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I tested with some Eneloop AAA from 2005 with "high" in Maha 9000.
They where charged as they where new in MC3k, no problems what so ever.

I also have some Maha Imedion from the same period, all dead.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Anders said:


> Eneloop AAA from 2005



10 yrs old accus omg :tinfoil:


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> This video shows how to create a program step by step with narration in English. It should help those who are having trouble. Remember to look at the manual page 5, step 5, if you are in Dummy Mode and need to change it to Simple or Advanced mode (required to enter a program). I suggest Advanced because it give more options. The programming instruction starts at 6 minutes and continues to about 9 1/2 minutes.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks8pmYw2pqU



From Gear best huh lol


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hehehe 

HKJ has announced on another forum that he is going to publish ~tomorrow the longest charger review to date of an advanced charger.

Wondering what that could be :devil:


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ok, i've decided to go ahead and place the order for this charger from HKE. Dammit this charger probably would of been shipped already lol.


----------



## clintb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> From Gear best huh lol


Received mine from GearBest. Packaged well and shipped promptly, along with tracking.

Here's some tips for ordering from GearBest:
If you want packages quicker, don't order loose lithium batteries at the same time.
For the order(s) without lithium batteries, select the next faster shipping than the free one AND add shipping insurance if the order amount is significant enough to you.
For the loose lithium cells, unless you're ordering a bunch and the total cost would be enough to get you riled if lost, don't add insurance.

Out of 9 orders in the past few months, I've received all but two of them; one is pending shipment and one is in transit. I'd say that's pretty darned good luck from them.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



clintb said:


> Received mine from GearBest. Packaged well and shipped promptly, along with tracking.
> 
> Here's some tips for ordering from GearBest:
> If you want packages quicker, don't order loose lithium batteries at the same time.
> For the order(s) without lithium batteries, select the next faster shipping than the free one AND add shipping insurance if the order amount is significant enough to you.
> For the loose lithium cells, unless you're ordering a bunch and the total cost would be enough to get you riled if lost, don't add insurance.
> 
> Out of 9 orders in the past few months, I've received all but two of them; one is pending shipment and one is in transit. I'd say that's pretty darned good luck from them.



Hke is a little bit more expensive and does not include the 1xAA flashlight with the order. I'll take your word for it, and gonna bite the bullet and go for it (for real and this is final) I am definitely going to add shipping insurance. and also made sure that i selected US version. never seen options when it comes to plugs. as for the cells. I'll will get them at Amazon. Plus, the Panasonic cells (NCR18650B) reviews are very good

There, It is done! the indecisive madness which dealer to get the charger from is over! with shipping insurance added. I have never shop international before. Now is crossing my fingers and hoping all goes smoothly from here on out! lol.


----------



## hey_tommy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Hehehe
> 
> HKJ has announced on another forum that he is going to publish ~tomorrow the longest charger review to date of an advanced charger.
> 
> Wondering what that could be :devil:



...juuuuuust in time for me getting my charger delivered tomorrow :rock:


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Now it saying.. Stock on Jan 10. I hope i got the last one. that will be quite of wait if i didn't.


----------



## verdum

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



hey_tommy said:


> ...juuuuuust in time for me getting my charger delivered tomorrow :rock:


Review from HKJ - http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=30465
Heh, sorry, not actual as already posted on CPF.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



verdum said:


> Review from HKJ - http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=30465




You do not have to go that far to find the review: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?413234-Test-Review-of-Charger-SkyRC-MC3000

My charger reviews are usual published in four places: Here, fonarevka, blf and my website. On my website it is no possible to ask or discuss anything, it has to be done on one of the forums.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If I choose refresh mode and chose a capacity limit and the limit is reached it sayes "capacity cut" and stops. Shouldn´t the program move on and discharge from there then charge and finnish the program with the capacity limit?

Edit: Talking about small NiMh in this case thats get to hot with higher current and never stops charging on lower current with limit off.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> If I choose refresh mode and chose a capacity limit and the limit is reached it sayes "capacity cut" and stops. Shouldn´t the program move on and discharge from there then charge and finnish the program with the capacity limit?



I think the charger sees the capacity setting as a user defined failsafe. That's why the program stops when it reaches the "capacity cut" limit.

In theory I suppose the charger could be set to continue with the next phase of the program. SkyRC could address this with a FW update if they want to.



> Edit: Talking about small NiMh in this case thats get to hot with higher current and never stops charging on lower current with limit off.



If you're using a lower current and worried that the battery never stops charging, perhaps try setting the delta peak at 0dV. That might help it stop. :thinking:


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> I think the charger sees the capacity setting as a user defined failsafe. That's why the program stops when it reaches the "capacity cut" limit.
> 
> In theory I suppose the charger could be set to continue with the next phase of the program. SkyRC could address this with a FW update if they want to.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're using a lower current and worried that the battery never stops charging, perhaps try setting the delta peak at 0dV. That might help it stop. :thinking:


Maybe it´s a bug, don´t know. Kreisl can look at it and report it if it´s a bug, same thing in cycle mood.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> Hey, your missing the point here, we trying to learn how to manage this beast and all the capabilities from small to large batteries, old and new


Oké i let you win. :laughing:

Seriously, the default NiMH charge termination method is -dV or 0dV. 0dV setting worked fine with my bad health small NiMH's. Sure they got warm. Maha would simply refuse to charge them, very clever lol. If your small cell has about 200mAh and high resistance, then how about 0.06A charge rate (=0.3C) in PROGRAM[22]? Sounds like a legit experiment hh.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> JB was 100% right, so i didn't comment.
> 
> No it is not a bug, even if that fw behavior may seem illogical to you or you'd prefer continuation of the program. I don't know what your 'small Nimh' battery is. If the cell is in bad health or has high resistance or else, any charger may have difficulty with it. In such a case, you could create a PROGRAM[22] which tries to mimic mh9k behavior: for the Charge routine, choose charge to 1.47V target (at any conveniently low charge rate to keep the Nimh cool) and trickle charge set to 100mA and C.RESTING set to 120min. Same for the cycle mood.
> 
> Done.


Ok, no problem  The battery in this experiment was a 200mAh NiMh from a garden solar light.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> Its the same with bigger batteries to if charge them slowly.


As you quoted me, try PROGRAM[22] on them too :tinfoil:


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I'll make sure that in the next fw upgrade your garden battery will be rejected with SO POOR message


Its the same with bigger batteries to if charge them slowly.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> 200mAh or 2000mAh? 200mAh is very small Nimh. I would just toss it. lol


Hey, your missing the point here, we trying to learn how to manage this beast and all the capabilities from small to large batteries, old and new


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi Kreisl.
Sometimes I had a strange behavior with iPhone app.

when I connect with charger (it is already on-operation, started using its own keys), often I see this:







but the charger currently is doing this:







I ask your attention not on data shown (these pictures are taken in different moments), but on the slots that the app shows as not empty,
when are actually empty.

If I power_cycle the charger, and reconnect iPhone with charger, all returns OK.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Most of you are lucky to have this charger early. Now it says "back order" lol.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Most of you are lucky to have this charger early. Now it says "back order" lol.



You can just buy it with another plug and then supply your own mains cable.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> You can just buy it with another plug and then supply your own mains cable.



Might help to say what type of plug, is it the common computer IEC C13/C14?


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Might help to say what type of plug, is it the common computer IEC C13/C14?



It is C7/C8


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Might help to say what type of plug, is it the common computer IEC C13/C14?


Well, too late now. Order already submitted. So not only do i have to wait until jan 10 to be in stock. Wait even more by the time they dispatch my order. Sure picked a bad time to order.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Well, too late now. Order already submitted. So not only do i have to wait until jan 10 to be in stock. Wait even more by the time they dispatch my order. Sure picked a bad time to order.



Don't feel bad.

I was probably the first on CPF to buy the new Xtar VP2 charger a couple of years back and mine was promptly recalled due to a brittle plastic formula used in the housing.

By the time I got my replacement unit in, everybody and their grandmother was using their new VP2s.

Chris


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I am noticing that the firmware update function (in PCLS) has stopped working under WinXP. Turns out that sky has pulled the fw binary from the update server for the time being. According to user reports the updating procedure didn't seem safe or reliable on Win10, Win10 in Win7 compatibility modus, or even Win7 itself. Some users under Win7, Win8, Win10 managed somehow to come through, but few others failed and ended up with a bricked charger.
> 
> 
> 
> I am guessing that some of the broken units could be salvaged by a company engineer thru a hard reset (or similar) procedure, for which the device _may _need to be disassembled and then connected to a bootstrap loader or sum ting. But i don't know the exact procedure because it is not documented in the manual and i wouldn't understand it if someone showed it to me. :ironic:
> 
> Since the binary is gone, no harm can be inflicted by employing PCLS purely as logger. While the binary is gone, i am sure that peeps are working on a revised PCLS version.



Probably bricked chargers can be reprogrammed by mounting the J1 internal connector (see in this photo, left side) and using ST programmer like this. We need also the binary firmware image to be loaded.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kappa7 said:


> Probably bricked chargers can be reprogrammed by mounting the J1 internal connector (see in this photo, left side) and using ST programmer like this. We need also the binary firmware image to be loaded.


Afaik Sky is able to send out some file and instructions for a first attempt of emergency rescue, called hard reset. For the hard reset no disassembly is needed but you'd still need a lower WinOS like WinXP-SP3 for the procedure :devil:

It is also clear why the hard reset procedure is not documented in the manual. Because it involves special files which are not meant for public availability.

Whoever bricked his/her charger should contact Sky asap and ask for help. If lucky, the hard reset will salvage the device. But as mentioned, it is unsafe to perform it under the unsupported systems (Win10, etc).

Good luck and please report back if the procedure has helped.

EDIT: actually .. the hard reset will NOT work these days lol because it too does involve firmware download from Sky server, but Sky has deleted the binary on Monday so that nobody can brick their device anymore even under Win10. It's a temporary deletion. Of course the binary will be back online in near future.


----------



## myweb

Dear All,

Finally I got mine MC3000 

I have several questions:

How to use DEX (DataExplorer) to monitor data?
What is the latest firmware? I have 1.02 and pressing update firmware button shows me "unable to download from internet" message. Is it OK?
How to Fix Bluetooth connection - I use Android phone. MC3000 application started and than displays "unable to get monitoring data. please restart application"


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The new free GNU DEX version is out, it supports now MC3000!! Check out download version 3.2.4 from Dec 22.


_GNU DataExplorer - News - comes with version 3.2.4 - 22 Dec 2015_

_1) add support for native USB communication_
_2) add support for SkyRC MC3000 single cell charger_
_3) JetiAdapter - increase number of initial supported measurements to 50_
_4) iCharger - implemented checksum checking for serial communication _
_5) JetiAdapter - add Rx->Tx time delta statistics (not differentiating over sensors)_
_6) JetiAdapter - fix intermittent find best fit of time step which end up in less display points_
_7) JetiAdapter - fix inconsistent detection of Speed record which leads to unusable color configuration while Google Earth KMZ export._
_8) HoTTAdapterX - HoTT V2 enable data visualization for external voltage and temperature_
_9) implement feature request to edit single cell in table_
_10) fix problem while measuring due to missing scale end value synchronization when scale synchronized measurement visibility toggled_
_11) fix problem while GPS coordinates are available, but speed record ordinal can not be identified_
_12) fix CSV export Time unit to [hh:mm:ss.SSS]_
_13) fix font size dialog while using high resolution_
_14) swt update to version 4.5_


----------



## Julian Holtz

*MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*



Julian Holtz said:


> But I have to say, I'm quite pissed right now. Reason is that the charger apparently does not meet the neccessary specifications for a trouble-free import. I just came back from the customs office, and they told me that the CE mark and a variety of other neccessary compliances are missing. They must be imprinted in a non-removable way on the charger, especially as a radio frequency device (blutooth) is built in. Now I have to wait until monday for a specialist to look at things, and worst case is that it is sent to the "Bundesnetzagentur" (Federal Network Agency), the german frequency GeStaPo. Someone with a direct contact to SkyRc should tell them that a lot of EU customers are in for a nasty surprise if they don't meet the regulations.
> A nameplate (which the charger is missing altogether) congruent with the regulations should look like this:
> 
> http://www.planet3dnow.de/photoplog/images/49821/1_corsair8.jpg
> 
> http://www.exp-tech.de/media/catalo...3525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/4/1466label_lrg.jpg



So I called again today. The German Federal Network Agency was involved in my case, and it found the MC3000 was non-compliant with EU regulations. The options are now that the charger is either destroyed by the customs authority, or shipped back to the sender. Fortunatelly, both options are free of charge for me. So I guess HK Equipment will deal with it in February or so considering the Chinese New Year Holidays and stuff.
Thank you very much, SkyRC, for trying to sell us non-compliant equipment.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*



Julian Holtz said:


> So I called again today. The German Federal Network Agency was involved in my case, and it found the MC3000 was non-compliant with EU regulations. The options are now that the charger is either destroyed by the customs authority, or shipped back to the sender. Fortunatelly, both options are free of charge for me. So I guess HK Equipment will deal with it in February or so considering the Chinese New Year Holidays and stuff.
> Thank you very much, SkyRC, for trying to sell us non-compliant equipment.


How was this overlooked?. Clearly that is the first thing on the list on any product, unless EU is really that strict. Wow this really sucks.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*



MarioJP said:


> How was this overlooked?. Clearly that is the first thing on the list on any product, unless EU is really that strict. Wow this really sucks.



Germany customs do more to enforce CE regulations than customs in other countries. We are not told why it did not comply with the regulations, my guess would be due to a missing CE sticker on the charger (I doubt they have done any actual testing).


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*

So far I have heard multiple reasons. One is the missing CE sticker, another is that the very name of the device (MC3000) is nowhere to be seen on the case, therefore one cannot veryfy if the device is really an MC3000 which might be compliant. The company name (SkyRC) on it is not enough.
Last is that the regulations with which is compliant must be imprinted on the case.
Everyone have a look at the bottom side of your mouse or keyboard. I have found complinace information and nameplates on both of mine, and also on the wifi cards and the removable CD drive of my laptop. In short, every random piece of electronics I found at an arm's reach on my desk is compliant in so far as it has the necessary information imprinted on it.
Why does SkyRC not know that this is mandatory?
Or, why do they label some chargers correctly and some not?
This one apparently has a nameplate and CE and FCC markings:
http://thebarnfloor.com/catalog/product_thumb.php?img=images/sky100090-02_5.jpg&w=800&h=600


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*



Julian Holtz said:


> So far I have heard multiple reasons. One is the missing CE sticker, another is that the very name of the device (MC3000) is nowhere to be seen on the case, therefore one cannot veryfy if the device is really an MC3000 which might be compliant. The company name (SkyRC) on it is not enough.
> Last is that the regulations with which is compliant must be imprinted on the case.
> Everyone have a look at the bottom side of your mouse or keyboard. I have found complinace information and nameplates on both of mine, and also on the wifi cards and the removable CD drive of my laptop. In short, every random piece of electronics I found at an arm's reach on my desk is compliant in so far as it has the necessary information imprinted on it.
> Why does SkyRC not know that this is mandatory?
> Or, why do they label some chargers correctly and some not?
> This one apparently has a nameplate and CE and FCC markings:
> http://thebarnfloor.com/catalog/product_thumb.php?img=images/sky100090-02_5.jpg&w=800&h=600


Does this mean there might be an issue importing the charger to US. Could this be the reason for the backorder?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*



Julian Holtz said:


> Why does SkyRC not know that this is mandatory?
> Or, why do they label some chargers correctly and some not?



The reason may be because this is the first run of the charger and they have not made the labels yet.



MarioJP said:


> Does this mean there might be an issue importing the charger to US. Could this be the reason for the backorder?



Probably not, very few customs check this stuff. It is more likely they sold more chargers than they expected and now need to produce a new batch.
Lets hope they do get the name plate ready for the second run.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*

I'm so sorry you are having these problems. Your experience is anything but joyful. I am sure the problem will be solved, but you won't have a charger for Christmas.



Julian Holtz said:


> So I called again today. The German Federal Network Agency was involved in my case, and it found the MC3000 was non-compliant with EU regulations. The options are now that the charger is either destroyed by the customs authority, or shipped back to the sender. Fortunatelly, both options are free of charge for me. So I guess HK Equipment will deal with it in February or so considering the Chinese New Year Holidays and stuff.
> Thank you very much, SkyRC, for trying to sell us non-compliant equipment.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*

Well, at least I now know that Belarus is not the only country where the customs officials can ruin your joy over least important things... from what little I know about Germany I'm not so surprised that it came to be another. Mine has passed the customs unhindered (which seemed far from certain to me) and is in the post office since today; I could have gone there and collected it but they said they would deliver tomorrow, so I opted to wait.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*

Mine is in Portugal for 5 days still waiting postals show package to customs, but they don't have a date yet! What a country! :/
I can't go to customs, even if I want to because the package is not there yet :/


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I guess i'll hold off on ordering the cells then. This is going to be awhile. January 10 huh..yep, quite awhile lol.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is there any reason why the next Firmware update could not allow DUMMY mode to include RCR2/15270 cells? 

If it could do that, I could do almost everything I would want to do on a regular basis in Dummy mode and save the more complicated stuff for when I want to be "joyful".


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Anyone with a bricked charger due to failed firmware update, it's probably not really bricked!
SkyRc sent me a different updater.

After starting the program, plug in charger power and hold the enter button down for around 30 seconds, maybe more. Screen will not change but charger enters boot mode. Plug in USB cable. The program will respond it found a device. Click on update, wait a while and the charger will start and work again!

It took about 30 tries to get the timing right as far as how long to hold the start button. It also failed a few times, but finally worked!

I can't post attachments but will email it to anyone who wants to try it.


----------



## megawolf

*Re: MC3000 charger is non-compliant with EU law*



HKJ said:


> The reason may be because this is the first run of the charger and they have not made the labels yet.



I just checked mine and thats right it has nothing but two stickers *QC Pass *and *S/N *.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



millguy said:


> Anyone with a bricked charger due to failed firmware update, it's probably not really bricked!
> SkyRc sent me a different updater.
> 
> After starting the program, plug in charger power and hold the enter button down for around 30 seconds, maybe more. Screen will not change but charger enters boot mode. Plug in USB cable. The program will respond it found a device. Click on update, wait a while and the charger will start and work again!
> 
> It took about 30 tries to get the timing right as far as how long to hold the start button. It also failed a few times, but finally worked!
> 
> I can't post attachments but will email it to anyone who wants to try it.



Good to know, thanks.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Sharkie said:


> The new free GNU DEX version is out, it supports now MC3000!! Check out download version 3.2.4 from Dec 22.



Cool man! Shame about the Java runtime but excellent support


----------



## >PETE<

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just got my MC3000 to find one of the lines on the screen doesn't work 

Assume DOA/warranty repair...


----------



## Mr Floppy

Duplicate damn internet connection


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Mr Floppy said:


> Cool man! Shame about the Java runtime but excellent support



What's wrong with JRE? Works fine on my OS X 10.10.4.

Could anyone get precise current values in DEX? Both table and curve point show values rounded to the nearest 0.1A while chart line clearly moves between two adjacent '0.1A' grid lines.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> What's wrong with JRE? Works fine on my OS X 10.10.4..



For a start, it is a bit heavy for my eeepc 4G. Will at least be ok for a raspberry Pi headless


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> What's wrong with JRE? Works fine on my OS X 10.10.4.



The only advantage of Java applications I know of, is a cross-platform compatibility...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> Could anyone get precise current values in DEX? Both table and curve point show values rounded to the nearest 0.1A while chart line clearly moves between two adjacent '0.1A' grid lines.


On the left-hand side, the curve selector, click on the listed curve item with mouse right-click context menu and cha!


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> On the left-hand side, the curve selector, click on the listed curve item with mouse right-click context menu and cha!



That is exactly what I am asking. Left-clicking 'Current' under curve selector; selecting 'Measurement' -> 'measure curve point'. Two lines appear on the chart crossing at the 'current' curve. Moving vertical line with mouse. 'Current = -0.3A' value under the chart is rounded to the nearest 0.1A while 'current' curve is somewhere between -0.3 and -0.2 grid lines.
I.e. the exact value used to draw the 'current' curve is not displayed.
Does DEX behave differently on your system?


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Received my MC3000 today and almost immediately found out that there's no TERMINATION parameter for NiZn programs despite the manual saying


> *TERMINATION
> The termination current of the CV-phase of Li-Ion battery charging algorithm, also of NiZn.*


.

Is it the same in the 1.03 firmware (anyone who managed to upgrade before they removed the binary, please check; you don't need NiZn cells to see the options of the programs) and if yes, do they plan to leave it like that??? And, of course, how in the NiZn charging done now, with no termination at all, perhaps (the CV stage lasting forever)?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> Left-clicking 'Current' under curve selector; selecting 'Measurement' -> 'measure curve point'. Two lines appear on the chart crossing at the 'current' curve. Moving vertical line with mouse. 'Current = -0.3A' value under the chart is rounded to the nearest 0.1A while 'current' curve is somewhere between -0.3 and -0.2 grid lines.
> I.e. the exact value used to draw the 'current' curve is not displayed.


Change 'Axis number format' to '0.000', then you'll get -0.248A in the data table and Export CSV. 

@B-Admirer
Re NiZn, sorry i have no idea, i cannot check right now, my unit is busy with CYCLE 24/7, cannot interrupt . Please make sure that you're in Advanced UI Mode. I'll check later this holy evening. 
EDIT: i checked. True. I cannot see the TERMINATION option in NiZn programming. I'll find out what's going there, thanks!


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> The only advantage of Java applications I know of, is a cross-platform compatibility...



I see. It's all relative. I used to work in the IT industry and remember how the entire Java technology began. That's when it was real ugly! Appears almost normal to me today.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I most certainly am in the Advanced mode and I can see the TERMINATION parameter for LiIon, but not for NiZn, so it is really absent. The ability to charge NiZn was the primary reason for purchasing the charger, so it's bothering.

If it's fixed in the next firmware they should give me the opportunity to update; I have Windows XP, so not likely to render mine inoperable by using the currently available software for that.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Change 'Axis number format' to '0.000', then you'll get -0.248A in the data table and Export CSV.



Nice! :thumbsup: Thank you!


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Abe to charge Ni-Zn thats nice. Trying to understand whats the issue?


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If anyone is still having trouble writing their first program, try the simple Step by Step procedure listed below for making a program for charging Li-Ion batteries (18650 suggested) at 1A:


Put the MC3000 in Advanced Mode. Read step 5 on page 5 of the Manual.

Push Slot Number Button 1.

The display should show Program 01. Push Enter.

Scroll down to the bottom of the parameters. The last line should say Save to 01. Push Enter.

Push the Up Arrow. The display should now say Save to Slots.

Push Enter. You have created Program 01 for charging Li-Ion at 1A and saved it to all slots.

Load up to four Li-Ion batteries (18650 suggested)

Push Enter. The display should show Processing and Charging begins.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Abe to charge Ni-Zn thats nice. Trying to understand whats the issue?


Inability to set the termination current as specified in the manual. For me they always terminated when the current during the CV stage dropped below 50 mA.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> Inability to set the termination current as specified in the manual. For me they always terminated when the current during the CV stage dropped below 50 mA.



What namely cells you're charging BTW?


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> What namely cells you're charging BTW?


How's that even relevant? I have BPI, Ansmann and UltraCell AAAs (capacity about 600 or 700 mAh).


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> Inability to set the termination current as specified in the manual. For me they always terminated when the current during the CV stage dropped below 50 mA.



Perhaps it's just simple max voltage termination?


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Mr Floppy said:


> Perhaps it's just simple max voltage termination?


 No, there (obviously) is the CV phase when the charging current gradually decreases.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> How's that even relevant? I have BPI, Ansmann and UltraCell AAAs (capacity about 600 or 700 mAh).



I was just interested if mentioned 50 mA cut-off is suitable for your particular case, hence the question. As for the AAA NiZn it's typically specified at ~20mA, it seems that MC3k undercharge them with current defaults...


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> I was just interested if mentioned 50 mA cut-off is suitable for your particular case, hence the question. As for the AAA NiZn it's typically specified at ~20mA, it seems that MC3k undercharge them with current defaults...


The nominal cutoff current for NiZn is C/20 according the PowerGenix datasheet (archived link), the Ansmann datasheet specifies as low as C/30, so yes, 50 mA is undercharge for anything below 1000 mAh. I wonder if that value is hard-coded or depends on the set capacity (there's the CAPACITY option in the programs for NiZn). I will try to determine that experimentally.

Either way it's no good at all to have this option missing in such a supposedly advanced charger. Well, at least it does currently allow to set the target voltage (one cell seemed to have trouble getting to 1.90 V, so I set 1.89 for safety reasons. The PowerGenix 1-hour NiZn charger was notorious for its tendency to kill cells; it sometimes failed to get a cell to 1.9V to switch to the second stage and thus always charged with high current, killing the cell in the process.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

TERMINATION will be nizn option in next fw update, no prob at all.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> Either way it's no good at all to have this option missing in such a supposedly advanced charger. Well, at least it does currently allow to set the target voltage (one cell seemed to have trouble getting to 1.90 V, so I set 1.89 for safety reasons. The PowerGenix 1-hour NiZn charger was notorious for its tendency to kill cells; it sometimes failed to get a cell to 1.9V to switch to the second stage and thus always charged with high current, killing the cell in the process.



I'm probably not going to get this charger but I was curious as to what it would do with NiZn. That's why I thought it may just have a set voltage. I'm pretty sure that the powergenix charger I have is not the hour one but I don't think it reduced the current. I do wonder how much attention is paid to the NiZn bit of the charger.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> TERMINATION will be nizn option in next fw update, no prob at all.


Good, but what was the prob that prevented it from appearing so far? By the way, is it absent in the 1.03, too? I have 1.02 and can't update even though I have Windows XP because online update was taken down before I got the charger.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> (one cell seemed to have trouble getting to 1.90 V, so I set 1.89 for safety reasons.


You mean overheating? If yes, it's time to discard that cell: in my practice, this is a sign of developing zinc dendrites, so rapid capacity loss & self-discharge rate increase will make the cell practically unusable.



> The PowerGenix 1-hour NiZn charger was notorious for its tendency to kill cells; it sometimes failed to get a cell to 1.9V to switch to the second stage and thus always charged with high current, killing the cell in the process.



PG chargers were generally crap, yes.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Does anybody know what's the difference is between nimh and eneloop mode ?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I think it is explained in the manual?


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My charger is still at customs so I don't have the manual


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Did anybody read the manual?


It's a waste of time. Forum is more convenient source of information! :devil:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> Good, but what was the prob that prevented it from appearing so far? By the way, is it absent in the 1.03, too? I have 1.02 and can't update even though I have Windows XP because online update was taken down before I got the charger.


I am glad that i am able to give moral  support while Sky leaves for 2 weeks for the US trip to CES 2016 Las Vegas. Luckily i do have most answers:
It appeared in former fw versions witch the manual is based upon. There was no prob with it. In newer fw versions they removed it without me knowing anything about it, probably to reduce complexity in the NiZn SPV menu. Yes it is absent in 1.03. Yes sorry that people cannot update anymore. Both the PCLS and the fw binary are being revised but i have no idea when they are ready.

:duh2:


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

BTW, is there any chance the FW update method will be changed to more fail-safe design, used e.g. in computer BIOS updaters etc? I mean stand-alone application, separate binary file to be flashed, and (optionally) the ability to backup existing FW to the file, for possible reverting if something is wrong in the new version...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sori have no idea.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ok, thanks.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I am glad that i am able to give moral  support while Sky leaves for 2 weeks for the US trip to CES 2016 Las Vegas. Luckily i do have most answers:
> It appeared in former fw versions witch the manual is based upon. There was no prob with it. In newer fw versions they removed it without me knowing anything about it, probably to reduce complexity in the NiZn SPV menu. Now that i am aware of the removal, i don't agree with their decision so it'll be back in the next update hehe. Yes it is absent in 1.03. Merry chrismas by the way. Yes sorry that people cannot update anymore. The fw itself was safe, just the fw updating procedure PCLS under Win10 (and similar modern OS) was not safe, even though bricked chargers could be salvaged thru a complicated procedure called hard reset. Both the PCLS and the fw binary are being revised but i have no idea when they are ready.
> 
> :duh2:


As the chargers don't celebrate Christmas neither do I, for my MC3000 is the closest thing to a company I'm currently having. Anyway, thanks a lot for clarifying. As I'm already familiar with the Chinese logic to some extent, that "to reduce complexity in the NiZn SPV menu" thing comes as no big surprise. Any chance for me to downgrade to the older FW while the newer one is still a long way away?



-Archie- said:


> You mean overheating? If yes, it's time to discard that cell: in my practice, this is a sign of developing zinc dendrites, so rapid capacity loss & self-discharge rate increase will make the cell practically unusable.


 No, there was no overheating, but the cell was stuck in the CC mode with 1.90 V indicated for suspiciously long (I assume the indicated value is rounded and the actual measured one was slightly below). The BPI cells seem to be the worst NiZn ones and that one seems to be the worst of my BPIs. So far I hardly ever used my NiZn cells for anything but testing (I'm sure I don't have to explain the reason), which is why I have those from three different vendors, so I'm not discarding it, I will use it to find the safest values for the better cells.



Mr Floppy said:


> I'm probably not going to get this charger but I was curious as to what it would do with NiZn. That's why I thought it may just have a set voltage. I'm pretty sure that the powergenix charger I have is not the hour one but I don't think it reduced the current. I do wonder how much attention is paid to the NiZn bit of the charger.


Just to make it clear, 1-hour charger is only a name, it doesn't specify the actual charging time. Its actual model name is F100011-14, I think. As to your question, well, apparently not much.

_____________________________________________________
UPD: Apparently, the NiZn termination current value is hardcoded; whether I set CAPACITY to 600 mA or 200 mA, charging still appears to terminate when the CV phase current drops below 50 mA.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So wait what?? Stop production as in pulled from the market due to faulty units being shipped???

Looks like i won't get this charger AT ALL!!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!!

Its not so much that the unit are faulty or whatever. Its how gearbest handles the situation. This site should be banned from the US. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE COMPANY DUE TO HORRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE. Amazon in no way will allow their customers to wait this long For a freaking Reply!. What really is upsetting the fact how it was stated. " Could you please visit our website again and choose suitable replacement?" Without even mentioning of a refund!!!. Poor customer service. I may have to dispute the charges.[emoji35] [emoji107] 

[emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35][emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji107] [emoji107] [emoji107]!!!! 





Dear Mario,


Thank you very much for your feedback.

First, I want to offer my sincerest apologies to you for the delay reply.


Unfortunately, we are very sorry to inform you that the Battery Charger Skyrc-MC3000 has been stopped production now.
Could you please visit our website again and choose suitable replacement?
You may send the product link to us.

Once again, we sincerely apologize for any inconvenience that may have been caused and we look forward to hearing from you. 


Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

Merry Christamas!

Best Regards 
Marva
Gearbest Customer Service
http:www.gearbest.com


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> The BPI cells seem to be the worst NiZn ones and that one seems to be the worst of my BPIs.



In my practice, BPI isn't any better/worse than others; maybe you've just got faulty cell or batch. It looks to me that BPI is/was the only real manufacturer of consumer NiZn cells from very beginning, and other "brands" are in fact the same re-labelled cells...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@MarioJP
If Gearbest hasn't shipped yet and you don't want to wait, sure cancel your GB order and get your money back. The manufacturer's warehouse is out of stock and sky has started preparations for the next production batch and one can pre-order again from the 2 vendors, still at promotional price oops, from HKE and GB. And no faulty units are being shipped lol. 
Why pre-order at all? i dunno. I guess because production output is limited and the product has been selling fast, so one can secure a copy and at that promo price before the vendor is out-of-stock again.

I am no fan of GB btw. "has been stopped production now" is poor Engrish and could be easily misunderstood, as you did omg.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> @MarioJP
> If Gearbest hasn't shipped yet and you don't want to wait, sure cancel your GB order and get your money back. The manufacturer's warehouse is out of stock and sky has started preparations for the next production batch and one can pre-order again from the 2 vendors, still at promotional price oops, from HKE and GB. And no faulty units are being shipped lol.
> Why pre-order at all? i dunno. I guess because production output is limited and the product has been selling fast, so one can secure a copy before the vendor is out-of-stock again.
> 
> I am no fan of GB btw. "has been stopped production now" is poor Engrish and could be easily misunderstood, as you did omg.


This Marva person sure knows how to bring my blood to a boil. I get it that English may not be their language. Its how it was stated that spooked me lol. They need to word it better like out of stock vs "stopped production" that is a big difference of the 2 meanings. Lmao!

With that said. If its a pre-order i am ok with that. If that would of been stated in a,way like this in the first place. My previous rant post would have not existed lol.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> So wait what?? Stop production as in pulled from the market due to faulty units being shipped???



Eh, was anything mentioned about "faulty units being shipped"? Where did you hear that?




> Looks like i won't get this charger AT ALL!!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!!
> 
> Its not so much that the unit are faulty or whatever. Its how gearbest handles the situation. This site should be banned from the US. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE COMPANY DUE TO HORRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE. Amazon in no way will allow their customers to wait this long For a freaking Reply!. What really is upsetting the fact how it was stated. " Could you please visit our website again and choose suitable replacement?" Without even mentioning of a refund!!!. Poor customer service. I may have to dispute the charges.



Yeah GB could have handled the situation better. Anyway, try asking them to refund your money first. If they don't, then by all means dispute the charge.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Eh, was anything mentioned about "faulty units being shipped"? Where did you hear that?


Thought it was a coincidence with the blank screen thread along with "stopped production" part as to hint that maybe they are having issues and thought the dots connected. Just made sense lol.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> If its a pre-order i am ok with that. If that would of been stated in a,way like this


If you surf thru smartphone to mobile GB site, you'll see the number of pre-orders and the timeline. The site states that the promo ends in 4 days, which sounds about correct. One cannot expect or believe or hope that the product can be had for <100usd in 2016. Not easily. So pre-ordering is a convenient way to secure the low price.

Personally i am a bit worried about CNY holiday season. Production and shoppers will be stranded for 1-2 frikkin months. Might also affect the availability of the next notable updates of PCLS and fw download.


----------



## TeMpL

fw 1.03 was pulled back ? Because of flashing issues ?


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> In my practice, BPI isn't any better/worse than others; maybe you've just got faulty cell or batch. It looks to me that BPI is/was the only real manufacturer of consumer NiZn cells from very beginning, and other "brands" are in fact the same re-labelled cells...



Well, before I got the charger I was only able to test my NiZn cells by charging in *UltraCell Plus+ 4P80T-NiZn* which is, basically, the concept of "unworkable" materialized (the best thing that can be said about it is that is doesn't appear to damage the cells it charges) and then discharging in *OPUS BT-C3400* and the BPI cells had shown much poorer result than the others. In the MC3000 they, even undercharged due to premature charge termination being unavoidable with the current firmware, performed much better than I could possibly expect, as far as I can tell. I haven't tested my other NiZn cells yet, so can't tell how they compare now.

Even if all NiZn cells are produced by the same manufacturer, the quality control instituted by (or for) different vendors may still be different, that's where the difference between the cells of different brands may come from.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

In fact, 4P80T is very good MCU-based charger, many times better than PG ones - but as most cheap Chinese devices, require some fixing/modding. At least it was true for my sample.

As for cell's quality control, you're probably right...


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I thought NiZn were discontinued?


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

By whom?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

By Powergenix. Did another company took over? I see new NiZn cells in new labels at Amazon. Original label were Powergenix. Man those batteries had so much potenial. Super high discharge rate. Those cells aint no joke when it comes to Amps.


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello millguy,

thanks for the information for another way existst to update / "reflash" a charger which accidentally has been bricked !

As you stated above that you are not able to upload files here, may i suggest "filetea.me" - a hoster ideal for uloading lightweight files for free w/o registration.

It would be awesome if you do so and only share the link here - this would be a great help for all users who now got - for whatever reason ever - a bricked MC3000.

As SkyRC possibly is now in "holiday / reorganisation / CES 2016" mode, people wouldn´t have to wait weeks more far into the next year to get their chargers working again !

Wishing you all a peaceful XMas time ;-) 



millguy said:


> Anyone with a bricked charger due to failed firmware update, it's probably not really bricked!
> SkyRc sent me a different updater.
> 
> After starting the program, plug in charger power and hold the enter button down for around 30 seconds, maybe more. Screen will not change but charger enters boot mode. Plug in USB cable. The program will respond it found a device. Click on update, wait a while and the charger will start and work again!
> 
> It took about 30 tries to get the timing right as far as how long to hold the start button. It also failed a few times, but finally worked!
> 
> I can't post attachments but will email it to anyone who wants to try it.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> By Powergenix. Did another company took over? I see new NiZn cells in new labels at Amazon. Original label were Powergenix. Man those batteries had so much potenial. Super high discharge rate. Those cells aint no joke when it comes to Amps.



No, they're still offering them. As for household round cells - they've gradually removing any traces of related information from PG site, obviously loosing interest to the consumer market. Reason probably is an insufficient profit due to marketing mistakes.

But it was always known that PowerGenix's production facilities are in China (AFAIK I've read that in former CEO D.Squiller's interviews), and company who made cells for them (I believe, it was BPI) seems to be now free to sell them to any party interested. If you like appearance of AA and AAA cells in the PowerGenix wrappers - they're widely available now as well among the others...


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> No, they're still offering them. As for household round cells - they've gradually removing any traces of related information from PG site, obviously loosing interest to the consumer market. Reason probably is an insufficient profit due to marketing mistakes.
> 
> But it was always known that PowerGenix's production facilities are in China (AFAIK I've read that in former CEO D.Squiller's interviews), and company who made cells for them (I believe, it was BPI) seems to be now free to sell them to any party interested. If you like appearance of AA and AAA cells in the PowerGenix wrappers - they're widely available now as well among the others...


But as far the technology goes. Will there be any improvements. I think these cells were not giving a fair shot. Try again if you don't succeed?


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Suarez said:


> Hello millguy,
> 
> thanks for the information for another way existst to update / "reflash" a charger which accidentally has been bricked !
> 
> As you stated above that you are not able to upload files here, may i suggest "filetea.me" - a hoster ideal for uloading lightweight files for free w/o registration.
> 
> It would be awesome if you do so and only share the link here - this would be a great help for all users who now got - for whatever reason ever - a bricked MC3000.
> 
> As SkyRC possibly is now in "holiday / reorganisation / CES 2016" mode, people wouldn´t have to wait weeks more far into the next year to get their chargers working again !
> 
> Wishing you all a peaceful XMas time ;-)



Can't get filetea to work. Looking for another.

Sorry folks, I pulled the links. The file really wasn't mine to share anyway, and I only put it up for the unfortunate owners of bricked devices.
I see now some are using it on perfectly good ones, and don't want to be responsible for anything going wrong.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



millguy said:


> Can't get filetea to work. Looking for another.



I've sent PM to you with my email address; still waiting for the answer! 

P.S. Got the files from DropBox; many thanks!


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Could the next FW update recognise LiFePO4 cells in Dummy mode? I have already written a program to charge LiFePO4 cells (RCR2) which I only rarely need to charge so no big issue for me.

Seems like the main use of this charger for me - when I don't want to be "joyful" - will be the convenience of being able to charge anything I have (including D NiMH) with one charger and so save space and also not have to remember different operating procedures for different chargers. Even though the LiFePO4 program I have written is very simple to use, I am sure to need reminding when I come to (infrequently) use it. Thus if the next FW update could have recognition of LiFePO4 in Dummy Mode, that would be great.




kreisl said:


> TERMINATION will be nizn option in next fw update, no prob at all.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If you have many different chemistry batteries, you could write a charge program for each. After you have done that it is simple to temporarily change that programs to Refresh, Discharge, or anything else you want to do. This will reduce the number of programs you have to create, and yet it allows you to do anything you want. Temporarily change the charge current, discharge current, charge voltage, etc. I find this method very fast and easy to use and it is ideal for something you do infrequently.


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

WOW, that was fast !
Thank you very much indeed, got the MC3000 back functional ;-)

Great !!!

So the waiting for all users of "damaged" units is over...




millguy said:


> Can't get filetea to work. Looking for another.
> 
> Here we go:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6xh7xyh2ai2o92/readme -.doc?dl=0
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/eoc69ip4abovhu5/UpgradeFirmware_MC3000_V1.03.exe?dl=0


----------



## kyzhkcpf

Hi kreisl,

First of all, thank you for your help brining this dream charger into a reality.

Improvement / feature suggestion for future FW update:

Pulse charging option - 
As seen in HKJ's excellent (thank you for all your reviews, HKJ!) review of the mc3000, charging NIMH at a low rate ( ~ <0.5C) can lead to overcharging as 0dV/dt / -dV/dt termination signal may be missing entirely. For absolute minimum one might want to consider ~ 2500 mAh * 0.5 >> 1.25A as pulsing current and PWM down to desired charging rate for average charging current less than 1.25A.

There are also literature (can't find it - but definitely read about it) suggesting that charging lithium chemistry based batteries at a high rate actually improves total usable capacity over life. It was seen under electronic microscope that charging at a high rate provides more uniform (in physical dimension over the entire cell) charging than slow charging, where the actual charging process is highly localized which is somewhat damaging to the cell.

At least there are some empirical study on effects/benefits of pulse charging on lithium chemistry batteries, to just cite one:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775301008205

I suppose the hardware would be capable of PWM given how precise this charger can regulate its voltage output in the CV phase of lithium ion battery charging.


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Suarez said:


> WOW, that was fast !
> Thank you very much indeed, got the MC3000 back functional ;-)
> 
> Great !!!
> 
> So the waiting for all users of "damaged" units is over...



Glad it worked for you too.
The one I ordered to replace my "bricked" one should be here in a few days. Guess I'll have to find a use for two of 'em.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> In fact, 4P80T is very good MCU-based charger, many times better than PG ones - but as most cheap Chinese devices, require some fixing/modding. At least it was true for my sample.
> 
> As for cell's quality control, you're probably right...


As I already posted in this thread, the NiZn cells I have look suspiciously similar, so yes, I may be right 

Not damaging the cells it charges does make 4P80T-NiZn better than the PowerGenix 1-hour NiZn charger and yes, my 4P80T-NiZn also required some "fixing/modding" (otherwise it might have destroyed itself upon its first power up), but that was not enough to make it work properly. I will send you a PM with more detail, as it's way off topic here and I'm curious about your experience with the UltraCell plus+ charger.



MarioJP said:


> I thought NiZn were discontinued?





MarioJP said:


> By Powergenix. Did another company took over? I see new NiZn cells in new labels at Amazon. Original label were Powergenix. Man those batteries had so much potenial. Super high discharge rate. Those cells aint no joke when it comes to Amps.


PowerGenix no longer vendors NiZn cells for end-users, as their support told me, they are "focused on micro and mild hybrid systems for the automotive markets". But, as you know, the cells are still being manufactured and vendored by other companies.



Suarez said:


> WOW, that was fast !
> Thank you very much indeed, got the MC3000 back functional ;-)
> 
> Great !!!
> 
> So the waiting for all users of "damaged" units is over...


It will also be useful to those with functional chargers who wish to upgrade to FW 1.03 now rather than wait indefinitely for the appearance of the new firmware online


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Of course ;-) Based on my technical understanding I have not considered it´s worth mentioning that the method also is suitable for "normal" updating to version 1.03 ;-)


----------



## kreisl

kyzhkcpf said:


> Hi kreisl,
> 
> First of all, thank you for your help brining this dream charger into a reality.
> 
> Improvement / feature suggestion for future FW update:
> 
> Pulse charging option -
> As seen in HKJ's excellent (thank you for all your reviews, HKJ!) review of the mc3000, charging NIMH at a low rate ( ~ <0.5C) can lead to overcharging as 0dV/dt / -dV/dt termination signal may be missing entirely. For absolute minimum one might want to consider ~ 2500 mAh * 0.5 >> 1.25A as pulsing current and PWM down to desired charging rate for average charging current less than 1.25A.
> 
> There are also literature (can't find it - but definitely read about it) suggesting that charging lithium chemistry based batteries at a high rate actually improves total usable capacity over life. It was seen under electronic microscope that charging at a high rate provides more uniform (in physical dimension over the entire cell) charging than slow charging, where the actual charging process is highly localized which is somewhat damaging to the cell.
> 
> At least there are some empirical study on effects/benefits of pulse charging on lithium chemistry batteries, to just cite one:
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775301008205
> 
> I suppose the hardware would be capable of PWM given how precise this charger can regulate its voltage output in the CV phase of lithium ion battery charging.


merry xmas g****

and sorry. no food here.

moving on.


----------



## B-2Admirer

I just wanted to share a hidden setting I found (LCD Contrast), but did a search and saw that *kreisl* had already mentioned it (I somehow missed that post) 

Well, FWIW I can at least say that it's present in the FW 1.02 as well :shrug:


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Update: So looks like i am being refunded. They suggest to look for a different charger. I know that its out of stock but to suggest another model as in don't bother with the pre-order. Leaves me with more questions than answers. Too many fillers and not a lot solid clear answers. Well this just sucks. SkyRC needs dealers here in the US. GB is just terrible they don't understand the definition of a pre-order.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> GB is just terrible they don't understand the definition of a pre-order.


 My advise based on personal experience with GB: never participate in their preorders. Just wait until particular item is on sale directly....


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> merry xmas g****



fyi: I am not connected in any way to the post that you quoted. Why make such wild guesses? That's about as accurate as the prior squirrely guesses that I am you!

In any case, Happy Holidays to you too.


----------



## kreisl

Gauss163 said:


> fyi: I am not connected in any way to the post that you quoted. Why make such wild guesses?


and i never said or implied that you were.

i've heard enough about the topic pulse-charging and the decision has been taken against it. take it or leave (it).

If anybody is going to miss pulse-charging in this product, then i advise him/her to look for some other charger, thanks!!

i hope this was clear enough.

now we can all move on.

basta.


Q: Which were the reasons why you decided against it?
A: Not every engineering decision is open for discussion. So no further comment.

Q: But pulse-charging is superior, i quoted science-direct, didn't i?
A: Whatever your point was, i am sure that you made your point. But I am done.

Q: Done, really?
A: Bye.


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> ...If you are going to miss pulse-charging in this product, then i advise you to look for some other charger



You should address your reply to the user who made the request. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything _I _wrote here. I would recommend improving the UI and thermal design before increasing the variety of charging algorithms implemented.


----------



## kyzhkcpf

kreisl said:


> merry xmas g****
> 
> and sorry. no food here.
> 
> moving on.



Hi kreisl,

I just did a quick search on pulse charging discussion in this thread and looks like there's been enough talks about it. I was proposing pulse charging as an optional extra feature (especially for NIMH battery if one wants to charge a high capacity with low average current!). I will send an email to skyrc and see if they would be interested.

Thank you.


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Update: So looks like i am being refunded. They suggest to look for a different charger. I know that its out of stock but to suggest another model as in don't bother with the pre-order. Leaves me with more questions than answers. Too many fillers and not a lot solid clear answers. Well this just sucks. SkyRC needs dealers here in the US. GB is just terrible they don't understand the definition of a pre-order.



Why you didn't try HKE, it was my first time with them but everything was fine, I ordered from them after some users shared their bad experience with GB back in this thread.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



megawolf said:


> Why you didn't try HKE, it was my first time with them but everything was fine, I ordered from them after some users shared their bad experience with GB back in this thread.


I know. I should of, it was the price on gb that made my choice it was a bit cheaper. But, now i see what a mistake.=no charger before the year ends....oh they better not come up with a survey. I will rate them so low. Google play store reviews on gb app are spot on.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



megawolf said:


> Why you didn't try HKE, it was my first time with them but everything was fine, I ordered from them after some users shared their bad experience with GB back in this thread.



HKE is a class act. I have purchased an AceBeam K60 and two MC3000s from them. They have great service and superior communication by e-mail. Always very friendly and competent.


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Possible Issue in V1.03 - Slot 3 "No Battery" ?!?

...i am nearly shure that i´ve read somehere about it already, but i could not find the thread again - e.g. in another forum ?!?

What i´m talking about:

Unfortunately i did not check if this also happened in FW 1.02, but here i noticed some small issue while using Data Explorer / Micro-USB Connection.
All four slots were in use while discharging NL 189 3400mAh, and Data Explorer grabbed all to the point, everything ok.
After removing the four cells, selecting another program and inserting four Eneloops for charging, the third slot displayed "No Battery".
Reopening / closing the slider to check the cell for correct seat lead to the same result "No Battery"
After removing the Micro-USB cable (which still was plugged in from the measurements) slot 3 became alive and did eveything like expected, measuring IR e.g.
As it is able to reproduce the same state again and again (!checked!), this may be another point which isn´t that heavy and "not an error at all", but may possibly be corrected in an later FW version...
Anyone who also can reproduce this ?!?

--- Offtopic Start ---

I know i am a relatively new / late member to this forum, but since the first announce of the MC3000 i´ve read most nearly everything in this thread - and i am still related to all the technical stuff about this charger.
IMHO exactly this had been the reason for all of the "techies" here to visit this forum over and over again with it´s now roundabout 1500 postings... You know what i mean ?!? Imagine a child who first time looks at his new toy with shining eyes…

If someone here did have bad experience with the charger itself, it´s available options and / or the order, which is certainly very annoying for the people concerned, I hope that everyone will be ultimately satisfied - either by a later delivery of the MC3000 or the "money back" option ... Either way , I keep my fingers crossed . But it would be very unfortunate if the bad experiences of individual would tarnish the recent overall technical research spirit of this forum ...

--- Offtopic End ---

Suggestions about the cell not being recognized in slot 3 after data grabbing / USB connection are welcome ;-)

Regards !


----------



## clintb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> My advise based on personal experience with GB: never participate in their preorders. Just wait until particular item is on sale directly....


Received mine from GB, no problem at all.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



clintb said:


> Received mine from GB, no problem at all.



Let's all hope that it doesn't break down on you and that you don't have to ship it back to them.

They've had some issues lately.

Chris


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Suarez said:


> Unfortunately i did not check if this also happened in FW 1.02, but here i noticed some small issue while using Data Explorer / Micro-USB Connection.


The implementation of MC3000 device in DEX is still in beta and i am observing myself few things on the PC screen (bugs) which need revision in DEX. They are absent in PCLS, so.

The question is: Are you observing the same unexpected behavior when there is no DEX (or no micro USB) communicating with the device?

I am not experiencing any unexpected behavior with the device alone. The hardware is mature, and the firmware too. It's not a bug, it's a feature


----------



## kreisl

kyzhkcpf said:


> I will send an email to skyrc and see if they would be interested.


Sorry, the decision on pulse-charging is done. Don't expect any response from Sky.

Sorry again.


----------



## megawolf

@kreisl
can you update the first page with the optimum settings for charging batteries (if possible) something like this:

900mAh battery (Eneloop)
Capacity: 1100 or Off
C. Current: 0.3A to 0.5A
Cut Current: Off
DeltaV: 1mV
and so on......

Something like a beginners guide from the experts (what are the *Best *settings to use)


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

...of course the hardware is mature, the FW too ! The unit in general is functioning absolutely flawlessly regarding it´s origin features. Answering your question ´en detail´,
the behaviour ! only ! occours in DEX / Micro USB mode, and my intension only was to point at the circumstance itself...

Thinking of possible other users which for example are also doing measurements with Data Explorer or other external signal capture hardware who forgot to disconnect the cable before using the charger for
a new task - they occasionally may think one of the charger´s slots may be defective if not thinking in / recognizing the cable still connected...

On the other hand (and with one eye twinkering) this of course ! must ! be a feature - only implemented to remind the user to disconnect the cable lately ;-)

Regards !



kreisl said:


> The implementation of MC3000 device in DEX is still in beta and i am observing myself few things on the PC screen (bugs) which need revision in DEX. They are absent in PCLS, so.
> 
> The question is: Are you observing the same unexpected behavior when there is no DEX (or no micro USB) communicating with the device?
> 
> I am not experiencing any unexpected behavior with the device alone. The hardware is mature, and the firmware too. It's not a bug, it's a feature


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi kreisl

Neither am I - the device is great and I have tried out quite a bit of charging on different batteries by now. This thing is a techi dream but also simple to use in Dummy mode. There could not be better praise for it than HKJ saying he has replaced his other chargers with the MC3000 (so have I).


Could the next FW update recognise LiFePO4 cells in Dummy mode?



kreisl said:


> I am not experiencing any unexpected behavior with the device alone. The hardware is mature, and the firmware too. It's not a bug, it's a feature


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Update: So looks like i am being refunded. They suggest to look for a different charger. I know that its out of stock but to suggest another model as in don't bother with the pre-order. Leaves me with more questions than answers. Too many fillers and not a lot solid clear answers. Well this just sucks. SkyRC needs dealers here in the US. GB is just terrible they don't understand the definition of a pre-order.



Glad that you're getting a refund. Agree that GB's communication needs to improve if they want to get more customers.

Anyway, I noticed that they have listed the MC3000 as "backorder" and coming in stock on Jan 10 (for the EU & US plug version). Perhaps they choose to use "backorder" instead of "pre-order", who knows?

However, it appears that the AU & UK versions are in stock (no mention of "backorder"). For those who don't want to wait you can just grab any one of those and simply replace the power cord.

PS. I was going to suggest you order from HKE but it looks like they are also out of stock and can only ship on Jan 15.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Suarez said:


> ...of course the hardware is mature, the FW too ! The unit in general is functioning absolutely flawlessly regarding it´s origin features. Answering your question ´en detail´,
> the behaviour ! only ! occours in DEX / Micro USB mode, and my intension only was to point at the circumstance itself...



Perhaps you can point out this issue to the developers of DEX. Have them check if it is somehow their software issue that is causing this Slot 3 "No Battery" problem.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Could the next FW update recognise LiFePO4 cells in Dummy mode?


No promises here. My detailed suggestion was about Dummy Mode A (NiMH/Lilo) and Dummy Mode B (NiMH/LiFe), and they implemented only 1 Dummy Mode, and i am also okay with that decision. So basically they already took the decision … against NiMH/LiFe Dummy Mode. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't revise the decision in future but for now i leave them with their decision, i shouldn't fight it. We don't wanna **** them *** over a decision that they already made, or do you?


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Today, I checked the voltage consistency of the 4 slots of my MC3000. I used a few different 18650 batteries. For each battery I placed it into all the 4 slots and noted the readings.

Found out that my Slot 4 consistently showed +0.01V higher than Slots 1-3. So I used the User Calibration feature to manually adjust Slot 4 to bring it in line with Slots 1-3. I really like the many options/adjustments available on the MC3000.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hey kreisl, I'm thinking of turning the LED backlight to "Always On". Would this cause any issues with the longevity of the LED screen?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Hey kreisl, I'm thinking of turning the LED backlight to "Always On". Would this cause any issues with the longevity of the LED screen?


ooh i don't have the datasheet of the LCD screen and i won't bother them reit. i wouldn't be worried a bit, it's always on on my unit too.

jb please don't worry


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi kreisl

Not at all. But your original suggestion of Dummy modes 1 and 2 would be very useful for me and probably for anyone else who might want to charge LiFe without getting in to Advanced.

I am pretty happy as it is but just offering thoughts which may make it better. One of the many big plusses with this thing is the way future FW can be changed to add new functions.




kreisl said:


> No promises here. My detailed suggestion was about Dummy Mode A (NiMH/Lilo) and Dummy Mode B (NiMH/LiFe), and they implemented only 1 Dummy Mode, and i am also okay with that decision. So basically they already took the decision … against NiMH/LiFe Dummy Mode. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't revise the decision in future but for now i leave them with their decision, i shouldn't fight it. We don't wanna **** them *** over a decision that they already made, or do you?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

An update on GB: Status now says refunded but i don't see it on my bank account yet. In any case. What an experience this turned out to be. Disappointed now knowing that the charger is not coming before this year ends. Thought about just getting the Opus due to being readily available but no.. This charger seems to be the dream charger lol.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

When I received a small refund from GearBest, it took about a week before it appeared on my PayPal account. Their message said it would probably take this much time.



MarioJP said:


> An update on GB: Status now says refunded but i don't see it on my bank account yet. In any case. What an experience this turned out to be. Disappointed now knowing that the charger is not coming before this year ends. Thought about just getting the Opus due to being readily available but no.. This charger seems to be the dream charger lol.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> When I received a small refund from GearBest, it took about a week before it appeared on my PayPal account. Their message said it would probably take this much time.


Yea it did. And the reasoning for canceling the order was i thought the charger was being recalled "stopped production" have i would of known that it was out of stock i wouldn't have canceled it and would not mind waiting. A misunderstanding is what this was.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Good morning guys, my charger finally arrives today, is it secure for me do the firmware update? I have one Pc with Windows 8 x64, a Mac with bootcamp with Windows 7 x64. 

Thanks, today it will be a long night


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> Good morning guys, my charger finally arrives today, is it secure for me do the firmware update? I have one Pc with Windows 8 x64, a Mac with bootcamp with Windows 7 x64.
> 
> Thanks, today it will be a long night


You cannot use PCLS (anymore) to go through with the firmware update because the binary has been pulled offline.

Someone posted offline fw updater exe which is certified safe only under WinXP. No, it is not secure/safe to use it under Win8 x64 or Mac with etc . I don't support this method, sorry. If you run into trouble with it, feel free to contact Sky for support, i am out.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I think I'll wait for a secure update for at least Windows 7, I don't have any computer with Windows XP many years ago. Is anyone using that anymore? :/


----------



## Uxorious

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I got a "bricked" MC3000 after use the V1.03 update software. I pressed the enter button with different duration between 25~60sec., but my Windows 7(x64) still couldn't recognize it.
Is there any good idea for me to get my MC3000 back to work again ? :mecry: Thanks so much !!! 



millguy said:


> Glad it worked for you too.
> The one I ordered to replace my "bricked" one should be here in a few days. Guess I'll have to find a use for two of 'em.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So when i do get The charger. Avoid firmware flashing for right now?


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Received mine yesterday. Everything seems to be Ok, but extensive tests aren't performed yet. It looks that MC3000_Monitor.exe software is unable to control the charger, except for 'Start/Stop' button: changing modes for the slots at the Settings tab isn't actually passed to device, and previously selected modes are still active. Maybe I've missed something, though...


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'm trying to connect to my pc using MC3000 Monitor 1.01, but the driver isn't recognized in Windows 7. Install STM32 Custom HID as Device USB Keybord input :/

Please help me!
Thanks.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> Maybe I've missed something, though...



The download button.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The download button.


Thanks! I've had an impression that window is rendered correctly on my 1280x800 notebook's screen used as a 'control center' for various chargers and measurement equipment, as 4th. slot line is displayed fully, but there's indeed parts of some buttons below:


----------



## morcegolas

I had to remove all batteries, restart the charger and then plug the sub cable, now it's working.

But if I open the App on my iPhone and Bluetooth turns on in the charger, the communication with of stop until I force quit my iPhone app. There must be a bug.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have too the charger since the 24 of december.
I'm in general very satisfied of the quality and features in standalone mode, the pc and mostly the android app are too bugged at the moment, but this doesn't bother me too much.
At the moment I've found only these little firmware problems:
1) When performing cycles, if during the charging the capacity or temperature cut safety threshold are reached then the older discharge-charge cycles mAh information can't be shown. The same apply during the cycles, the data of the older cycles are visible only at the end if no error have occurred.
2) In the same case as above the remaining cycles are aborted when a threshold is reached. This can be understandable as security feature, but the capacity cut can be used as normal charging termination in nimh battery when the -dv/dt don't work.
3) Maybe it's me that I haven't found the setting, but it would be nice to allow to measure the internal resistance of the battery without starting a charge or discharge cycle.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kappa7 said:


> 1) When performing cycles, if during the charging the capacity or temperature cut safety threshold are reached then the older discharge-charge cycles mAh information can't be shown. The same apply during the cycles, the data of the older cycles are visible only at the end if no error have occurred.
> 2) In the same case as above the remaining cycles are aborted when a threshold is reached. This can be understandable as security feature, but the capacity cut can be used as normal charging termination in nimh battery when the -dv/dt don't work.
> 3) Maybe it's me that I haven't found the setting, but it would be nice to allow to measure the internal resistance of the battery without starting a charge or discharge cycle.


some comments:
1) if there is no error, the data of older cycles (called "cycle history") can be viewed as soon as a cycle has finished. For example, for N=10, and you're in the 6th cycle (n=6), then in SOV you can view the cycle history of n=1,2,3,4,5. Only discharged capacities will be shown in the cycle history.
2) yes, when capacity cut-off, temperature cut-off, or similar have been reached, the program does an abnormal program termination and afaik previous data like cycle history or SOV is lost or inaccessible. sorry if this implementation does not suit you but that's the implementation standard in hobby chargers. Enter generous thresholds or set them to OFF. And for NiMH charging situations which wouldn't terminate after the -dV/dt method, you could setup a new program number which sorta mimics the MH-C9000 charging algorithm. MH-C9000 does not use -dV/dt method either, which is also the main reason why batteries in the MH-C9000 always stay cool during charge.
3) the idea was discussed before. crossing fingers that we'll get this extra feature in future.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> 2) yes, when capacity cut-off, temperature cut-off, or similar have been reached, the program does an abnormal program termination and afaik previous data like cycle history or SOV is lost or inaccessible. sorry if this implementation does not suit you but that's the implementation standard in hobby chargers. Enter generous thresholds or set them to OFF. And for NiMH charging situations which wouldn't terminate after the -dV/dt method, you could setup a new program number which sorta mimics the MH-C9000 charging algorithm. MH-C9000 does not use -dV/dt method either, which is also the main reason why batteries in the MH-C9000 always stay cool during charge.



Or it could be fixed in software, there is no reason the number keys could not bring up the info. In some situations the limits are very useful for termination.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> 2) yes, when capacity cut-off, temperature cut-off, or similar have been reached, the program does an abnormal program termination and afaik previous data like cycle history or SOV is lost or inaccessible. sorry if this implementation does not suit you but that's the implementation standard in hobby chargers. Enter generous thresholds or set them to OFF.



I wouldn't call such data loss the "standard in hobby chargers". There are many hobby chargers that don't suffer this defect. It makes no sense that all such data should be lost on termination by capacity, temp, etc (and termination by capacity might not be "abnormal" but, rather, by design). Further, it is usually trivial to do the right thing, so it is beyond me why some designs choose this less useful option.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> there is no reason the number keys could not bring up the info. In some situations the limits are very useful for termination.


oki


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*







Finally testing my Christmas gift!
GearBest free shipping take 23 days to arrive!


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

What obscure Bluetooth design is used in MC3k? Seems to be non-discoverable by several tools I've tried... Is it hardcoded to respond to some proprietary requests originating from SkyRC software only?


----------



## hey_tommy

*Bluetooth app use blocks communication over USB port*



morcegolas said:


> But if I open the App on my iPhone and Bluetooth turns on in the charger, the communication with of stop until I force quit my iPhone app. There must be a bug.



I can definitely confirm this behaviour. And just like you, I thought there was something wrong with my charger or the driver installation - but it seems like there is simply a conflict between Bluetooth communication and USB communication, and they appear to be mutually exclusive.

When the iPhone/iPad app is running (can't confirm this on an Android though, as my phone doesn't have Bluetooth 4.0), the blue LED on the side of the charger is lit up to indicate Bluetooth communication. As long as that light is lit, the connected USB port will NOT pass any data to or from the PC, regardless whether you use the MC3000 Monitor program from SkyRC, or DataExplorer.

It seems like as long as the iOS app is running, it keeps the MC3000's Bluetooth communication module operational, which in turn seems to be blocking USB communication. The only solution is to force-quit the iOS app in order to shut down the charger's Bluetooth communication module (or reboot the iOS device and not run the MC3000 in the first place). Only once the iOS device ceases communicating via Bluetooth and the blue LED turns off, does the USB communication function properly.

I don't know if this is a bug, or whether Bluetooth/USB are mutually exclusive by design - but if it is the latter, then it should definitely be documented in the manual.

I wasted a good 2 hours trying all sorts of things before I realized that the Bluetooth comm was blocking the USB port communication - not fun.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I wast a little less time, but as You I thought that my charger might have something wrong as I open the iPhone app first and I wasn't able to get the pc software working. It's just like you say. :/


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> some comments:
> 1) if there is no error, the data of older cycles (called "cycle history") can be viewed as soon as a cycle has finished. For example, for N=10, and you're in the 6th cycle (n=6), then in SOV you can view the cycle history of n=1,2,3,4,5. Only discharged capacities will be shown in the cycle history.
> 2) yes, when capacity cut-off, temperature cut-off, or similar have been reached, the program does an abnormal program termination and afaik previous data like cycle history or SOV is lost or inaccessible. sorry if this implementation does not suit you but that's the implementation standard in hobby chargers. Enter generous thresholds or set them to OFF. And for NiMH charging situations which wouldn't terminate after the -dV/dt method, you could setup a new program number which sorta mimics the MH-C9000 charging algorithm. MH-C9000 does not use -dV/dt method either, which is also the main reason why batteries in the MH-C9000 always stay cool during charge.
> 3) the idea was discussed before. crossing fingers that we'll get this extra feature in future.



Thank you for the reply.
What "special" algorithm use the MH-C9000 that can be programmed in the MC3000?

A good idea for future implementation may be to base the end of charge on the dT/dt of the battery measured temperature: normally the battery temperature slowly rise a bit during the charge and when the battery is full the temperature rise much more and much more sharply. By setting a correct dT/dt value it may be quite easily to detect the end of charge. The drawback is that the temperature sensor must be very near the battery, but the MC3000 seems to follow quite well the battery temperature.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kappa7 said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> What "special" algorithm use the MH-C9000 that can be programmed in the MC3000?



The C9000 terminates on voltage and then does a timed low current charge to fill the cells. You can see it here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Powerex MH-C9000 UK.html
The MC3000 cannot be programmed for this in one program, but you can terminate on voltage and then do a timed charge with another program (That will end with an error message).


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks HKJ


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The C9000 terminates on voltage and then does a timed low current charge to fill the cells. You can see it here: http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Powerex MH-C9000 UK.html
> The MC3000 cannot be programmed for this in one program, but you can terminate on voltage and then do a timed charge with another program (That will end with an error message).


The C9000 cycle mode could be mimicked i think with dis C9000 program:
CYCLE MODE: C>D>C
TARGET VOLT: 1.47V (or 1.48V, doesn't really matter imo)
C.RESTING: 120min
D.RESTING: 60min
TRICKLE C.: 100mA​ 
So during C.RESTING the C3000 applies a 100mA trickle charge for 120min (called "top-off charge" in the C9000), after having terminated the CC charge at 1.47V. Of course the charging is not exactly the same because C9000 employs fast high pulses to generate the user-set average current whereas C3000 employs CC charge.

The C9000 charge mode could be mimicked up to the point where the C9000 switches from 100mA top-off charge to 10mA trickle charge. C3000 supports C.RESTING after CC charge termination. Once resting is over, program will finish and trickle would continue i think with 100mA ouch, haven't tested it yet hhh:
MODE: Charge
TARGET VOLT: 1.47V (or 1.48V, doesn't really matter imo)
C.RESTING: 120min
TRICKLE C.: 100mA​ 
What say you HKJ? :naughty:


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> I don't have any computer with Windows XP many years ago. Is anyone using that anymore? :/



I'm still using XP


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> So when i do get The charger. Avoid firmware flashing for right now?



Yeah. Besides, the FW 1.03 only has one minor change for the "Storage" function. If you don't use that then it's not urgent for you to update the FW.


----------



## JB

*Re: Bluetooth app use blocks communication over USB port*



hey_tommy said:


> I can definitely confirm this behaviour. And just like you, I thought there was something wrong with my charger or the driver installation - but it seems like there is simply a conflict between Bluetooth communication and USB communication, and they appear to be mutually exclusive.
> 
> When the iPhone/iPad app is running (can't confirm this on an Android though, as my phone doesn't have Bluetooth 4.0), the blue LED on the side of the charger is lit up to indicate Bluetooth communication. As long as that light is lit, the connected USB port will NOT pass any data to or from the PC, regardless whether you use the MC3000 Monitor program from SkyRC, or DataExplorer.
> 
> It seems like as long as the iOS app is running, it keeps the MC3000's Bluetooth communication module operational, which in turn seems to be blocking USB communication. The only solution is to force-quit the iOS app in order to shut down the charger's Bluetooth communication module (or reboot the iOS device and not run the MC3000 in the first place). Only once the iOS device ceases communicating via Bluetooth and the blue LED turns off, does the USB communication function properly.
> 
> I don't know if this is a bug, or whether Bluetooth/USB are mutually exclusive by design - but if it is the latter, then it should definitely be documented in the manual.
> 
> I wasted a good 2 hours trying all sorts of things before I realized that the Bluetooth comm was blocking the USB port communication - not fun.



Yup so far as I know, you cannot use Bluetooth and USB simultaneously with the MC3000. It's one or the other.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Anybody having sweet sparks like this when plugging in their power supply?

I noticed it the first time I plugged it in but decided to take a video while visiting my mom's house over the holidays. 

Sorry about sideways video!

http://youtu.be/PLe9WwjRDvk

What would cause this? Center pin too long and making contact before the outer shell or what?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Anybody having sweet sparks like this when plugging in their power supply?
> 
> I noticed it the first time I plugged it in but decided to take a video while visiting my mom's house over the holidays.
> 
> Sorry about sideways video!
> 
> http://youtu.be/PLe9WwjRDvk
> 
> What would cause this? Center pin too long and making contact before the outer shell or what?



My Maha C9000 2A wart does that, but not nearly as dramatic in the video. Plug the wart into the charger first and then plug the wart into the wall.

Chris


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Anybody having sweet sparks like this when plugging in their power supply?
> 
> I noticed it the first time I plugged it in but decided to take a video while visiting my mom's house over the holidays.
> 
> Sorry about sideways video!
> 
> http://youtu.be/PLe9WwjRDvk
> 
> What would cause this? Center pin too long and making contact before the outer shell or what?


My laptop does this as well. I dont see it but i could hear it. it's pretty common when the supply is in the range of 16v-19v 4A. Which is why i plug the laptop first before plugging the laptop charger to the AC outlet. The fact this charger is actually using a psu suitable for laptops means serious business.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Did that too.  Then read in the manual to connect the power supply to charger before plugging in the power supply into an outlet.


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

...so did i, the friendly developer of DEX - Mr. Brügmann - not only answered very quickly, furthermore he also did a "test-setup" to verify my findings, but unfortunately he could not confirm / repeat the "No Battery" problem with his setup / MC3000.

To quote his main information, Mr. Brügmann replied:



> "_...I try to recreate your scenario, it just runs discharging the four Li-Io cells. I´m curious it will have the same effect on my setup, i am surprised that this only occurs to bay n0.3. Perhaps your MC3000 shows an unfavorable tolerance at this bay..._"



Going deeper into the technical details in how the software is communicating with the USB port, he quoted:



> "._..In Data Esxplorer i close the USB adapter driver of the corresponding operation system while "Stop Recording" is clicked, herewith the USB adapter and the software are ´decoupled´. There only remains the voltage bridge to the PC, and the USB driver will remain loaded into the operating system until the USB plug is disconnected..._"



For confirmation Mr. Brügmann also sent the .osd DEX protocols of the different test stages along with his result / comment (quote):



> "..._The discharging of the four LiIo cells ended just now. After stopping the readout process in Data Explorer i took out the cells, selected another program (NiMH), inserted the new cells, everything went smooth, not the slightest problem here_..."



So, as i´m still able to reproduce this and as long as no other charger is affected with this "problem", i assume that my MC3000 must be a fairly rare unit though ;-)

Many thanks to Mr. Brügmann for his excellent support !!!



JB said:


> Perhaps you can point out this issue to the developers of DEX. Have them check if it is somehow their software issue that is causing this Slot 3 "No Battery" problem.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Anybody having sweet sparks like this when plugging in their power supply?
> -snip-
> What would cause this? Center pin too long and making contact before the outer shell or what?



It's normal. Input capacitors are discharged, and connection of power supply causes high momentary current (similar to short) to charge them initially. As stated, it's better to connect low-voltage cable before plugging the PS to mains outlet...


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ok, thanks. I knew how to avoid it but was just wanting to confirm it was normal if I did happen to plug in the barrel connector last. 

Thanks for the confirmation.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

A Plug in power switch is very convenient for products that do not have a power switch. I have several that I use for various applications. This works well with the MC3000.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SSFRES0/?tag=cpf0b6-20



dssguy1 said:


> Ok, thanks. I knew how to avoid it but was just wanting to confirm it was normal if I did happen to plug in the barrel connector last.
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation.


----------



## nk02

Hi, I just get this charger for Christmas.

I followed this thread for long time now.

I wanted to know if you experienced contact issues while inserting flat top cells ?

I have 4 18650 cells and get such issue with slot 4.

I must change batteries to different slot to get all of them in good contact.

Perhaps it's a small hardware issue.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Anybody having sweet sparks like this when plugging in their power supply? ... What would cause this? Center pin too long and making contact before the outer shell or what?



The spark is typically caused by the high current inrush when large capacitors charge up. Over time this may damage the pins, so it is better not to hot-plug, i.e. make the 12V connection before the power supply is powered up (not doing so may even trip the protection on some finicky power supplies).

In the RC/hobby world where much higher currents can occur they use special anti-spark cables to avoid this. These first make a connection through a current-limited path to allow the caps to precharge more slowly, then they connect in parallel through a wire with no limit, finally they remove the lower-current connection, e.g. see the photo below. 

Similar ideas are used in many common connectors, e.g. SATA hot-plug cables implement the current-limited path via longer pins which mate first for precharge, e.g. search for "precharge" in the Wikipedia SATA article. You will find the same sort of staggered pin length idea in many connectors, e.g. laptop batteries.







Instructions: simply install the receptacle to the fuselage side and connect the battery and ESC. Plug or unplug the connector key to turn the power on and off. With jumper key removed, you can plug in battery then hold the mountable momentary contact switch button in for 3 seconds. The caps in your ESC will be charged for no big "spark" when plugging in your jumper key (excerpted from RadicalRC's MPI 12g Hi-Current No-Spark Arming Switch Deans)


----------



## HKJ

nk02 said:


> I wanted to know if you experienced contact issues while inserting flat top cells ?
> 
> I have 4 18650 cells and get such issue with slot 4.
> 
> I must change batteries to different slot to get all of them in good contact.
> 
> Perhaps it's a small hardware issue.



I posted this picture in my review thread:


----------



## nk02

I saw it HKJ, thanks. I just wondering if it is safe to do so, because charger can't get the batt temp when the cell is like on the picture.

But you're right it's a good workaround.


----------



## HKJ

nk02 said:


> I just wondering if it is safe to do so, because charger can't get the batt temp when the cell is like on the picture.



I will call it mostly safe, if you have a battery that may have been damaged*, you can use a small magnet on top.

*Salvaged cells when doing the first test or when a cell have been shorted or over discharged.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Hi.

On a safety point guy`s i would advise you check your charger`s power adapter, where the cable comes out of the strain relief, In the last month i had cracks in the cable exposing the copper wire exactly at the point it comes out of the stain relief, I found my second one today, an Maha C9000 UK power adapter, I suspect cold temperature can cause the rubber to become brittle so that it splits when it is flexed.

John.


----------



## -Archie-

Yes, it's a typical problem with Chinese cables, widely known to users of budget bike lights. In addition, plastic used by manufacturer for strain reliefs is so hard that makes situation worse, like in this SkyRC example...


----------



## B-2Admirer

By the way, *kreisl*, in the FW 1.02 the Break-in mode _can_ be chosen for a NiZn program, despite the manual stating "Not available for NiZn nor for rechargeable Li-batteries". Break-in obviously makes no sense for NiZn, so I have no idea how they could miss such a bug. Is it like that in the FW 1.03 as well?


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> so I have no idea how they could miss such a bug. Is it like that in the FW 1.03 as well?


How? Afaik the manual was written by some group of smart alecks and the firmware was not coded by the same enthusiasts. Thanks for pointing out the bug, will be an easy fix.

Cheers!:buddies:


----------



## B-2Admirer

Yes, but they were supposedly testing NiZn cells in the charger (you even posted a photo to prove that :duh2 and what kind of tester would miss that? Any info about the release date of the next firmware?

Alcohol is medically harmful.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have some doubts, using NiMH Break-In mode, in D>C>D repeating it for 5 times in new batteries. After running each break-in cycle I need to charge the battery again before running another Break-In cycle right? If yes with what C.C? In this process the manual talks about 1-4 hours resting after charge, what about discharge resting time? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> I have some doubts, using NiMH Break-In mode, in D>C>D repeating it for 5 times in new batteries. After running each break-in cycle I need to charge the battery again before running another Break-In cycle right? If yes with what C.C? In this process the manual talks about 1-4 hours resting after charge, what about discharge resting time?


For new batteries, see http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?413439-Eneloop-Break-in-question

Okay, let's assume that you're really in a situation where experts would recommend repeated Break_in cycles. Then no, you don't need to recharge the battery!
n=1: The first D in DCD is for depleting the battery as preparation before the 16h charge, the 2nd D is for analyzing the battery, which also depletes the battery. 
n=2: The first D in DCD is for (see above). Since the battery is already depleted from n=1, this first D will take only a minute or so. Then the 16h charge starts already, which is correct. The 2nd D depletes the battery again and analyzes it at the same time.

Discharge resting time .. the quoted norm does not specify it. MH-C9000 employs 60min, so does MC3000 by default. So after n=1 has finished, i'd note down the discharged capacity and energy, press the STOP button, and let the battery rest for 1 hour. Then i'd restart the identical program number with the ENTER button. After 21hrs, n=2 will have finished too. Note down the discharged capacity and energy and compare to the results from n=1.


----------



## morcegolas

Thanks kreisl, that's exactly what I want to know! 
This batteries are 2550mAh, when fully charged and I make a discharge until 1.0v I get +/-2450mAh, what Nominal should I use in Break-In? Normally to charge this batteries I use 2700mAh, but in break-in I don't know if it's the same way!

Thumbs up!


----------



## ilgrank

Hello everyone
I have found a strange bug, and would be grateful if someone could try to replicate it.
Basically, since I don't want to leave my (power hungry) pc on all the time to log the battery data, I have connected the MC3000 to my low-power Win7-64 sever, wich I do monitor via VNC.
After 5-10 seconds from starting MC3000 monitor tho, VNC server stops responding. The same happens via RDP.
Since this seems very strange, I have been able to replicate the issue both on an older XP32 machine and on a Win7 32 one. Always same issue: I manage to configure the slots, start the progam. The monitor begins to log the data and then.. all connections do close. No matter what I do, I have to restart the server before being able to connect again.
(btw, psexec DO work)

Is someone able to test a similar scenario?
Thanks!!


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I was trying to install DataExplorer in my Raspberry Pi, but without any luck. The reason is the same, to not have a hungry pc ON all the time, besides RPI can be powered by MC3000 Usb, and with tightvncserver it's a great headless. The problem it's to compile from source to ARM6, what I don't know how to do it. :/


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Discharge resting time .. the quoted norm does not specify it. MH-C9000 employs 60min, so does MC3000 by default. So after n=1 has finished, i'd note down the discharged capacity and energy, press the STOP button, and let the battery rest for 1 hour. Then i'd restart the identical program number with the ENTER button. After 21hrs, n=2 will have finished too. Note down the discharged capacity and energy and compare to the results from n=1.



Is it necessary to manually "press the STOP button, and let the battery rest for 1 hour"?

Can we do a program where n=2 and it will automatically rest for 1 hour after n=1, then resume with the next cycle (no need to restart the program)?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Is it necessary to manually "press the STOP button, and let the battery rest for 1 hour"?
> 
> Can we do a program where n=2 and it will automatically rest for 1 hour after n=1, then resume with the next cycle (no need to restart the program)?


I hear you. Your idea was considered by the makers long time ago, the decision fell against it, and i was also against it. As you guys can see, quite a few of your recent ideas/suggestions were already considered when the FW was being built.

Btw, the Break_in program takes already so many hours and usually is only needed for 1 run, namely for checking the battery rating. The other purpose (as suggested by MH-C9000 user manual), Forming Charge?, personally i don't believe in Forming Charge, it's imho a relict of old times when Eneloops were not available on the market. It is imho more economic and sensible to rather buy a set of Eneloops instead of letting the charger run for 1 week 24/7 non-stop to complete the 5+ cycles of Break_in operation mode on ausgelutschte Varta/Duracell/Imedion NiMH's.


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> It is imho more economic and sensible to rather buy a set of Eneloops instead of letting the charger run for 1 week 24/7 non-stop to complete the 5+ cycles of Break_in operation mode on ausgelutschte Varta/Duracell/Imedion NiMH's.



Ausgelutschte? Too hard a nut to crack for Google Translate, but surely not for the Squirrel, right?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeah, it's pretty advanced geman language my skills


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> I was trying to install DataExplorer in my Raspberry Pi, but without any luck. The reason is the same, to not have a hungry pc ON all the time, besides RPI can be powered by MC3000 Usb, and with tightvncserver it's a great headless. The problem it's to compile from source to ARM6, what I don't know how to do it. :/



Oracle Java is packaged for Rasbian. Both arm6 and 7 and hard float. Data explorer is a Java program so you need the Java runtime.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Mr Floppy said:


> Oracle Java is packaged for Rasbian. Both arm6 and 7 and hard float. Data explorer is a Java program so you need the Java runtime.



And how do you suggest me to do that? I already have run the following commands:



Code:


sudo apt-get install openjdk-8-jre
sudo apt-get install libswt-gtk-3-java


And my java version is:


Code:


[email protected] ~ $ java -versionopenjdk version "1.8.0_40-internal"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_40-internal-b04)
OpenJDK Zero VM (build 25.40-b08, interpreted mode)


----------



## zocra

I bought SKYRC MC3000


I wonder why I have an application MC3000 Monitor v1.01 message to check the firmware ?

Curent Version: 1.02
Firmware List: can't get firmware from internet

Charger is hrdwer ver. 1.04

Thanks


----------



## hey_tommy

zocra said:


> I bought SKYRC MC3000
> 
> 
> I wonder why I have an application MC3000 Monitor v1.01 message to check the firmware ?
> 
> Curent Version: 1.02
> Firmware List: can't get firmware from internet
> 
> Charger is hrdwer ver. 1.04
> 
> Thanks



Firmware update server has been temporarily disabled by SkyRC, as there were reports of people bricking their chargers due to some issues with the app freezing during firmware update. SkyRC is looking into it, but due to the Chinese New Year holiday season coming up, we probably won't see anything for a month or two.

The latest firmware prior to it being taken down was v1.03, and the changes were very minimal (you can scan the thread for details, if you feel like catching up on 50 pages of posts) - so basically, just use the charger and don't worry about it.


----------



## ilgrank

ilgrank said:


> Hello everyone
> -I have found a strange bug, and would be grateful if someone could try to replicate it.
> Basically, since I don't want to leave my (power hungry) pc on all the time to log the battery data, I have connected the MC3000 to my low-power Win7-64 sever, wich I do monitor via VNC.
> After 5-10 seconds from starting MC3000 monitor tho, VNC server stops responding. The same happens via RDP.
> Since this seems very strange, I have been able to replicate the issue both on an older XP32 machine and on a Win7 32 one. Always same issue: I manage to configure the slots, start the progam. The monitor begins to log the data and then.. all connections do close. No matter what I do, I have to restart the server before being able to connect again.
> (btw, psexec DO work)



Should someone else is having my same problem: MC3000 Monitor is detected by Windows Firewall as a potentially dangerous Software which, in turn, raises the Firewall in a higher security state (lockdown)
Either you have to disable completely the Windows Firewall or explicitly trust the MC Monitor.


----------



## ilgrank

Proposed feature: (I've read all the thread, but sorry if I missed a similar proposal)
Make the Programs exportable as XML, so that a database of 'recipes'could be made.
Sharing the programs among the users could help the less expert among us, enhance the experiments, and the best recipes would be available to everyone..
what do you think of it? Given MC Monitor is already able to read from the charger, it should be trivial to make the programs exportable..

Thanks and happy new year to everyone!


----------



## magnum70383

I'm a year late to this party! I almost always charge more than 4x18650 at the same time. Would the app work on both chargers? How will it work with 2 of these chargers?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Been observing this thread for awhile now. Seems like this is a really good charger, despite having minor bugs. But so far this happens to be the most multi chemistry charger out. Even supports alkaline rechareables (once its unlocked of course). Sucks tht i won't be getting mines anytime soon. Anyways

Happy New Years to all and just be sure its not your cells lighting up for the new years. So stay safe out there lol.


----------



## magnum70383

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'm gonna retire my d4 and i4 chargers and get 2 of these. I've been looking for a 4 slot 18650 charger with at least 2a charging.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> And how do you suggest me to do that? I already have run the following commands:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> sudo apt-get install openjdk-8-jre
> sudo apt-get install libswt-gtk-3-java



That's openjdk. Doesn't work then?

Try oracle Java. I'm not a Java fan but you should be able to get the package name with


Code:


apt-cache search java | grep -i oracle


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Mr Floppy, I'm not up to the job, maybe someone with the know how can port this to RPi, it's a nice solution. I'll wait and see. 

Thanks anyway!


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> Mr Floppy, I'm not up to the job, maybe someone with the know how can port this to RPi, it's a nice solution. I'll wait and see.
> 
> Thanks anyway!



I'll try and get it going but I won't be getting the charger unless I can win one from the gear best giveaway. Should be able to run it without a charger but I'm still in holiday mode until at least mid January


----------



## kreisl

magnum70383 said:


> Would the app work on both chargers? How will it work with 2 of these chargers?


Hi there, the app would work with 1 charger only, i think it's mentioned in the manual. I am surprised that so many people mention the app. I know that the app is boldly advertised and that Skyrc is really proud of having developed their own proprietary bluetooth module, a key component which they have been integrating successfully in recent chargers and several other electronic gadgets but personally i don't mind its existence and functionality (or the non-functioning). Too much hassle, i prefer the device-human mechanical interaction. Users may have noticed that the fw and the app are _somehow_ different from each other, heterogeneous, not fully adapted, not matching. True. And nobody knows when the gap between fw development status and app development status will be closed, and I certainly wouldn't hold my breath. If you buy the product mostly because of the app functionality, then you'll be disappointed. I don't need it, i don't use it, so i am not disappointed with it lol 
Yes and happy new year everyone! :drunk:


Q. Are you still planning to post a full review of the entire product (hardware, firmware, PCLS, DEX, android app)?
A. I am busy with battery tests and looking for firmware bugs. That has higher priority now. I won't review the app.

Q. When will it be posted?
A. By the time of late publication it will have lost relevance because the product is well-known by then and no news.

Q. What about bias?
A. Good point. All my constructive criticism was already processed before market release and i do belittle what is left.


----------



## TeMpL

kreisl said:


> Hi there, the app would work with 1 charger only, i think it's mentioned in the manual. I am surprised that so many people mention the app. I know that the app is boldly advertised and that Skyrc is really proud of having developed their own proprietary bluetooth module, a key component which they have been integrating successfully in recent chargers and several other electronic gadgets but personally i don't mind its existence and functionality (or the non-functioning). Too much hassle, i prefer the device-human mechanical interaction. Users may have noticed that the fw and the app are _somehow_ different from each other, heterogeneous, not fully adapted, not matching. True. And nobody knows when the gap between fw development status and app development status will be closed, and I certainly wouldn't hold my breath. If you buy the product mostly because of the app functionality, then you'll be disappointed. I don't need it, i don't use it, so i am not disappointed with it lol
> Yes and happy new year everyone! :drunk:
> 
> 
> Q. Are you still planning to post a full review of the entire product (hardware, firmware, PCLS, DEX, android app)?
> A. I am busy with battery tests and looking for firmware bugs. That has higher priority now. I won't review the app.
> 
> Q. When will it be posted?
> A. By the time of late publication it will have lost relevance because the product is well-known by then and no news.
> 
> Q. What about bias?
> A. Good point. All my constructive criticism was already processed before market release and i do belittle what is left.


I know you wont and can not review the app as its not working at all... [emoji3] 

And thats real shame.. And this charger without an app is just another charger.. 
With very bad user interface... Not intuitive at all... It should need complete redesign...

Very disappointed.


----------



## -Archie-

kreisl said:


> Skyrc is really proud of having developed their own proprietary bluetooth module,


As for me, it was a failure. Standard Bluetooth and USB serial ports, and the ability for PC software to select particular COM port to use would be more attractive feature, preventing whole bunch of problems...



> personally i don't mind its existence and functionality (or the non-functioning). Too much hassle, i prefer the device-human mechanical interaction.


My POV is opposite: I consider device's local LCD and controls "a nice addition" to my normal computer-based data acquisition routine. 



> Yes and happy new year everyone! :drunk:



Happy New Year! :buddies:


----------



## fnsooner

Is there a way to change all slots to the same program at once or do I have to always do it one slot at a time?


----------



## B-2Admirer

*kreisl*, I wonder why when performing a CYCLE type program it is only possible to view the discharged capacity in SOV once a cycle is completed. I mean it could (and I believe should) flash between charged and discharged right after the discharge stage is finished. Can you add this as a suggestion (I don't remember its being mentioned before)?


----------



## billcushman

When you are reviewing the program, go down to the last item "Save to xx" and click Enter. Push the Up Arrow once (it should read Slots). Push Enter and it will save the program to all Slots. I use this feature all the time. I usually want all slots the same and it is very convenient. Let me know if you have any difficulty.



fnsooner said:


> Is there a way to change all slots to the same program at once or do I have to always do it one slot at a time?


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> Can you add this as a suggestion (I don't remember its being mentioned before)?


decision re this idea was already taken internally months ago, and me too i had voted against that idea. 

see also #1217.

( one could think of a compromise, a new item in GSV called "Cycle Show: {Dischg|Chg|Both}" but here too i'd rather scrap everything and not bother. i've added it to our list but won't be adamant about it )


----------



## Suarez

...yep, that also works - if you wanna save to all slots by "one-click", just go to "Save to xx", then press and hold ENTER roundabout 2 secs - done ;-)



billcushman said:


> When you are reviewing the program, go down to the last item "Save to xx" and click Enter. Push the Up Arrow once (it should read Slots). Push Enter and it will save the program to all Slots. I use this feature all the time. I usually want all slots the same and it is very convenient. Let me know if you have any difficulty.


----------



## billcushman

Suarez said:


> ...yep, that also works - if you wanna save to all slots by "one-click", just go to "Save to xx", then press and hold ENTER roundabout 2 secs - done ;-)



Thanks! That saves even more time and is simpler. Once you become more familiar with the MC3000, it is very easy to use.


----------



## lucifer_vrn

I tried to charge deep discharged 18650 battery. Voltage was around 2 volts. I inserted it into charger and it said "Check voltage"(refresh mode). Yes, I know, thats is a good and coorect behavior to protect user from mistake. I also found that if I change discharge voltage, charger accept battery, but that is not comfortable to do each time. So, is there any simple way to force charger to start with deep discharged li-ion battery and ommit "check voltage" message?


----------



## kreisl

lucifer_vrn said:


> I tried to charge deep discharged 18650 battery. Voltage was around 2 volts. I inserted it into charger and it said "Check voltage"(refresh mode). Yes, I know, thats is a good and coorect behavior to protect user from mistake. I also found that if I change discharge voltage, charger accept battery, but that is not comfortable to do each time. So, is there any simple way to force charger to start with deep discharged li-ion battery and ommit "check voltage" message?


1) Get the answer from FAQ 7) of the manual.
2) The LiFePO4 chemistry has {2.00|2.01|…|3.14|3.15}V voltage range for mc3k discharge cut-off, so it should accept 18650 with 2.0V offline voltage. You could try to pre-charge the battery with 0.15A in *LiFe* from 2.0V to 3.40V target, then stop, then switch to a charge program with *LiIon* chemistry and 4.20V target.

Don't try this, though. Processing over-discharged LiIon's is hazardous. 
I don't advise or recommend 2), it's just a theoretical mind experiment to outline that, in theory, technically, charging from 2.0V to 4.20V could …


----------



## JB

TeMpL said:


> And thats real shame.. And this charger without an app is just another charger..



Actually, even without the app the MC3000 is still better than other chargers.

The app is icing on the cake.



> With very bad user interface... Not intuitive at all... It should need complete redesign...
> 
> Very disappointed.



The user interface might not be intuitive. I also thought it would be complex at first. However, spend some time with it and you'll realize it isn't that difficult either.


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## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> decision re this idea was already taken internally months ago, and me too i had voted against that idea.


With what rationale, if you don't mind my asking? I mean how can it be wrong for it to start alternating after the "discharged" value is obtained, rather than after the program completion? I'm only talking about the last obtained value, of course, not all of them. And yes, showing both charged and discharged capacities as separate readings would be better indeed.


----------



## gyzmo2002

B-2Admirer said:


> And yes, showing both charged and discharged capacities as separate readings would be better indeed.



Could you tell me the difference between these two? I was always thinking that the capacity can be measured on discharge or charge because they are the same. As I see, I am wrong.


----------



## MarioJP

Update. I now see the refund posted on my account. So basically. Back to square 1. Charger is still out of stock. And so far this thread has been giving me mix feelings about this charger. I know this is a new charger that just been released. However, Opus has been out for a good while that the bugs has been ironed out. And, it is much cheaper that, i can get 2 to replace my current chargers. But something tells me that this is one of those things in life, and goes without the saying. Good things will come for those that wait?...lol. Anyways, this whole buying experience has been :thumbsdowfor me.


----------



## B-2Admirer

gyzmo2002 said:


> Could you tell me the difference between these two? I was always thinking that the capacity can be measured on discharge or charge because they are the same. As I see, I am wrong.


Obviously, no cell is 100% efficient, which means that when charging some of the used energy is wasted (mostly converted into heat). That's where the difference between the charged capacity and the discharged capacity comes from.


----------



## gyzmo2002

B-2Admirer said:


> Obviously, no cell is 100% efficient, which means that when charging some of the used energy is wasted (mostly converted into heat). That's where the difference between the charged capacity and the discharged capacity comes from.



My Opus, on charge test (charge-discharge-charge) give us the discharge only and so, if you full 1l in a receipient, when you empty it, you will have 1l too. I had not figure the heat lost. That's why I was thinking they were the same. 

I will try to discharge to 2.80v and then, charge to 4.22v to see if the charge is equal to the discharge. 

Thank you


----------



## fnsooner

billcushman said:


> When you are reviewing the program, go down to the last item "Save to xx" and click Enter. Push the Up Arrow once (it should read Slots). Push Enter and it will save the program to all Slots. I use this feature all the time. I usually want all slots the same and it is very convenient. Let me know if you have any difficulty.





Suarez said:


> ...yep, that also works - if you wanna save to all slots by "one-click", just go to "Save to xx", then press and hold ENTER roundabout 2 secs - done ;-)



Awesome, that is what I was looking for. Thanks to both of you.


----------



## B-2Admirer

gyzmo2002 said:


> I will try to discharge to 2.80v and then, charge to 4.22v to see if the charge is equal to the discharge.


The higher current you use the greater the difference will be. With a very good cell on very low current it may be very small, but it will be there, provided the capacity is measured correctly in both cases.


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## kappa7

I think that I've found a bug not already reported:

The "protection reset" feature, called by hold down the number button for an empty slot, don't work after the slot has been previously used to charge a battery. If the charge is manually terminated, the bug is not present, but after the normal termination of the charge the protection reset feature stop working on the slot until a power cycle of the charger is performed.


Another possible small bug that I've seen only one time and I don't know how it was triggered: on slot 4 the time necessary to ramp the current at the start of charge or discharge became very slow, about 4 times the normal ramp time. Even for this bug only a power cycle of the charger resolved the problem, and at the moment I've never saw it again.


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## morcegolas

Hi guys, about charging/discharging 18650 protected 3400 mAh battery, should I set 3500 mAh or 3400 mAh in capacity?

Charging/Discharging rate will be 1A. 

Thanks.


----------



## HKJ

morcegolas said:


> Hi guys, about charging/discharging 18650 protected 3400 mAh battery, should I set 3500 mAh or 3400 mAh in capacity?
> 
> Charging/Discharging rate will be 1A.




There is no problem setting the capacity higher than the real capacity.


----------



## magnum70383

MarioJP said:


> Update. I now see the refund posted on my account. So basically. Back to square 1. Charger is still out of stock. And so far this thread has been giving me mix feelings about this charger. I know this is a new charger that just been released. However, Opus has been out for a good while that the bugs has been ironed out. And, it is much cheaper that, i can get 2 to replace my current chargers. But something tells me that this is one of those things in life, and goes without the saying. Good things will come for those that wait?...lol. Anyways, this whole buying experience has been :thumbsdowfor me.


I just ended up buying 2 x xtar vp2...


----------



## JB

MarioJP said:


> Anyways, this whole buying experience has been :thumbsdowfor me.



Just your luck that the MC3000 went out of stock when you ordered it. Had it been a little earlier it might've been a different story.

Anyway, not long to wait until it comes back in stock, though I guess you'd be leaning towards hkequipment this time round?


----------



## JB

magnum70383 said:


> I just ended up buying 2 x xtar vp2...



Having owned the VP2, I'd say that two of 'em aren't the same as one MC3000.

That said, for purposes of charging li-ions the VP2 is very good.


----------



## light-wolff

gyzmo2002 said:


> I was always thinking that the capacity can be measured on discharge or charge because they are the same. As I see, I am wrong.


You aren't. Coulomb efficiency (that is, mAh out / mA in) is very close to 100% for intact li-Ion cells.

If you (1) charge a battery to a defined state, then (2) discharge it with any current to any state, and (3) recharge it under exact same conditions as in (1), you can measure during recharge how much was discharged in step 2. The loss should be less than 1%.

With energy (Wh) it's different because charge and discharge voltage is not the same. This is where the abovementioned losses go. But there is practically no charge (mAh) loss.

Any charge lost in a Li-Ion cell goes into parastic side reactions and contributes to cell aging and permanent capacity loss.


----------



## vex_zg

Got MC3000. In general - happy with it, however:

*Question*: Without using phone/PC - is it possible to start/stop charging for one slot, without interrupting/stopping the process in other slots? (For example: slots 2,3,4 are doing a long refresh cycle that will take 12 hours to complete, and in the meantime I want to charge a few smaller cells in slot 1.): I'm asking because I cant figure out how, because I can stop a slot, but I can't find a was to start it again without stopping all slots.o

*Temperature issue:* The temperature sensor is not working/not making any contact with the battery when C/32650 cells are used . This is not good.


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## morcegolas

Long press button "1" it start/stop that slot only


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## kreisl

morcegolas trick will STOP the slot#1.

Or, in SOV (or in DDV) of slot#1 you can click on STOP. That trick will FINISH the slot#1.

There's a difference between STOP and FINISH. hehehe


----------



## billcushman

Originally Posted by billcushman 
When you are reviewing the program, go down to the last item "Save to xx" and click Enter. Push the Up Arrow once (it should read Slots). Push Enter and it will save the program to all Slots. I use this feature all the time. I usually want all slots the same and it is very convenient. Let me know if you have any difficulty.

Originally Posted by Suarez 
...yep, that also works - if you wanna save to all slots by "one-click", just go to "Save to xx", then press and hold ENTER roundabout 2 secs - done ;-)



billcushman said:


> Thanks! That saves even more time and is simpler. Once you become more familiar with the MC3000, it is very easy to use.



On further testing, this does not work if you are changing to a different program. If you change from a Li-Ion programs to a NiMH program, you must Click Enter, then Click Up Arrow, it will show Slots, Push Enter and the new program is saved to all slots. If you don't do this the Li-Ion program is saved to the other slots and you will get the Check Voltage Message if you try to use them.


----------



## MarioJP

JB said:


> Just your luck that the MC3000 went out of stock when you ordered it. Had it been a little earlier it might've been a different story.
> 
> Anyway, not long to wait until it comes back in stock, though I guess you'd be leaning towards hkequipment this time round?



Just my luck right. Yeah, with their whole misunderstanding when it comes to customer service. i might go with hkequipment. Though to be fair. The refund didn't take long, so charges dispute avoided lol. And like you said. Just happened to be my luck. With that said. I created a hke account. Though i will admit. Their site looks basic that i thought the browser was having issues rendering the graphics but it works. That's what counts right? Lol.


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## ffookkaa11

Hi,

I am using this charger for a week now, really like it 

The topic I would like to get some info is regarding IR measurement of the device.

In advanced mode, it displays the IR of each cell, how accurate is this?

The other is: what result is OK for an 18650 battery? Can this give useable information on the battery so to decide is it worth at all working on it or not? (to decide is it at all worth the time to do charge-discharge cycling on it or better throw away the battery)


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## kreisl

ffookkaa11 said:


> In advanced mode, it displays the IR of each cell, how accurate is this?


The IR also depends on the temperature (or physical state, in general) of the battery afaik. That is, IR measurement of a cold stored battery will differ from IR measurement of a hot worked battery, e.g. after several high load cycles.

Also, the IR value displayed on the LCD includes 3 contact resistances, for example the plus(+) pole of the battery touching the plus(+) pole metal contact of the slot, so the value is the sum of 4 resistances: 3*contact resistances + 1*battery resistance (+ minor resistances due to not being a four-terminal measurement). You can expect accurate or reproducible battery resistance measurement only if you succeed in (always) minimizing the 3 contact resistances. Challenging task!

You'd need to clean all contacts (of device and of the batteries), sliders, ensure proper connection and also apply extra pressure in an effort to minimize the sum of contact resistances. Under such lab conditions, the measurement will return reproducible values. In fact, when i do ambitious battery tests, i check the connection for the lowest IR measurement before proceeding with the full test run in that slot. Basically the lowest IR value displayed on the LCD tells me that i got optimal connection such that i can proceed with my intended battery test.

So … under lab conditions the IR measurement will be OK accurate. Yet just throwing a battery at the device and seeing a voltage displayed in TOV isn't sufficient as preparation for starting "serious" IR measurements.

Accuracy of the IR measurement on the mc3k is nothing but a matter of firmware coding. With improved code, the accuracy will be improved too. It's noted on the todo list thanks.


----------



## -Archie-

ffookkaa11 said:


> The topic I would like to get some info is regarding IR measurement of the device.
> 
> In advanced mode, it displays the IR of each cell, how accurate is this?


It's not, by design. To accurately measure resistance in milliohm range, four-wire (aka "Kelvin") scheme is required. MC3000 uses current pulse applied via existing contacts, so you'll mostly just see how good particular connection is.



> The other is: what result is OK for an 18650 battery? Can this give useable information on the battery so to decide is it worth at all working on it or not? (to decide is it at all worth the time to do charge-discharge cycling on it or better throw away the battery)


18650 is a size, not battery type. Resistance of 18650 LiFe and 18650 LiCo are quite different. The best way is, to find manufacturer's datasheet for particular cells you have, and compare measured value to the nominal one. And yes, IR is good information to decide whether the battery is in good condition or not.


----------



## HKJ

-Archie- said:


> The best way is, to find manufacturer's datasheet for particular cells you have, and compare measured value to the nominal one. And yes, IR is good information to decide whether the battery is in good condition or not.



That would never match, the datasheet value is measured with 1000Hz AC, not with DC as the charger does.
http://lygte-info.dk/info/Internal impedance UK.html


----------



## Gauss163

-Archie- said:


> The best way is, to find manufacturer's datasheet for particular cells you have, and compare measured value to the nominal one. And yes, IR is good information to decide whether the battery is in good condition or not.



Comparing to the datasheet is like comparing apples vs. oranges because the datasheet usually reports AC high-frequency (1 kHz) impedance - which is not easily precisely correlated to values obtained by type of test implemented in the MC3000, e.g. see here. Generally it only makes sense to compare the results of exactly same type test performed on the same device under the same conditions.


----------



## -Archie-

I didn't said they should match: that will just give a clue about order of expected value. BTW, the difference between DC and AC is not very big (at least for common types of cells), and in datasheets sometimes both of them are listed, or noted which one was used...


----------



## Gauss163

-Archie- said:


> I didn't said they should match: that will just give a clue about order of expected value. BTW, the difference between DC and AC is not very big (at least for common types of cells), and in datasheets sometimes both of them are listed, or noted which one was used...



If you follow the link I gave you will see that it can be 2 to 3 times as big. That counts as "very big" in my book.


----------



## -Archie-

Gauss163 said:


> If you follow the link I gave you will see that it can be 2 to 3 times as big. That counts as "very big" in my book.



Well, can you offer better source of reference data to the user who knows nothing about IR and asked what are "correct" values?


----------



## Gauss163

-Archie- said:


> Well, can you offer better source of reference data to the user who knows nothing about IR and asked what are "correct" values?



Sorry, I cannot because I don't have access to an MC3000. Perhaps someone with access and with proper understanding of the nuances of IR will be able to post some useful advice after gaining some experience with the unit.


----------



## kappa7

kappa7 said:


> I think that I've found a bug not already reported:
> 
> The "protection reset" feature, called by hold down the number button for an empty slot, don't work after the slot has been previously used to charge a battery. If the charge is manually terminated, the bug is not present, but after the normal termination of the charge the protection reset feature stop working on the slot until a power cycle of the charger is performed.



Anyone that has this problem?
I use the fw 1.02


----------



## ffookkaa11

OK, I understand it is not accurate, but still what number should I consider good and what bad?

I am geting like 110-140 mOhm ... what do you guys see on your own MC3000?

(These values are from used batteries harvested from used laptop battery packs ... that is why I am askig, as I have some used laptop battery packs, what I want to check, go through them and decide what to keep and what not)


----------



## billcushman

Originally Posted by -Archie- 
The best way is, to find manufacturer's datasheet for particular cells you have, and compare measured value to the nominal one. And yes, IR is good information to decide whether the battery is in good condition or not.

HKJ responded:
That would never match, the datasheet value is measured with 1000Hz AC, not with DC as the charger does.
http://lygte-info.dk/info/Internal%2...ance UK.html

Some datasheets display both values. Here is some data from the Samsung 25R (cyan) datasheet:
Initial IR (milliohms AC 1KHz), less than or equal to 16, 13.20 +/- 2 typical
Initial IR (milliohms DC 10A - 1A), Less than or equal to 30, 22.15 +/- 2 typical


----------



## Gauss163

billcushman said:


> Some datasheets display both values. Here is some data from the Samsung 25R (cyan) datasheet:
> Initial IR (milliohms AC 1KHz), less than or equal to 16, 13.20 +/- 2 typical
> Initial IR (milliohms DC 10A - 1A), Less than or equal to 30, 22.15 +/- 2 typical



Not really useful in this context since one will not be able to come anywhere near close to reproducing those values on the MC3K due to lack of 4 wire ("Kelvin") capability, lack of control over contact resistance, lack of spec on method used, etc.


----------



## morcegolas

Today I received my 14250 1/2 AA - 3.7v 300mAh.
What settings should I use?
C.Current - 150mAh?
Termination - 3,7v?
Delta Peak - 1mv?
Trickle C. -Off?







Thanks.


----------



## -Archie-

No, they're lithium cells.


----------



## kreisl

morcegolas said:


> Today I received my 14250 1/2 AA - 3.7v 300mAh.
> What settings should I use?
> C.Current - 150mAh?
> Termination - 3,7v?
> Delta Peak - 1mv?
> Trickle C. -Off?
> Thanks.


They are not supported in mc3000, please re-check the list of supported batteries. Do you have a conductive spacer?
Looks like 3.7v is its nominal voltage, not target voltage.

Use LiIon battery chemistry
C.Current - 0.15A
Termination - Zero
Target - 4,2V
Delta Peak - Off (cannot be changed)
Trickle C. - Off (cannot be changed)
Welcome.


----------



## -Archie-

Small cells could be used with spacers, like on this *HKJ* picture:


----------



## Viking

I finally recieved the charger. But of course with a us plug, thanks to gearbest :-(
Luckily I have an adaptor, but it is not okay to ship the wrong unit. But at least it doesn't seem to be bricked.


----------



## -Archie-

Mine arrived with EU cable, as ordered.


----------



## morcegolas

kreisl said:


> They are not supported in mc3000, please re-check the list of supported batteries. Do you have a conductive spacer?
> Looks like 3.7v is its nominal voltage, not target voltage.
> 
> Use LiIon battery chemistry
> C.Current - 0.15A
> Termination - Zero
> Target - 4,2V
> Delta Peak - Off (cannot be changed)
> Trickle C. - Off (cannot be changed)
> Welcome.



Thanks kreisl, already ordered the spacers from DealExtreme this weekend.


----------



## Viking

-Archie- said:


> Mine arrived with EU cable, as ordered.



Normally I wouldn't complain about it. But with the high error rate gearbest apparently has I think people should be informed. I'm not completely convinced this was just a mistake. It could also be because they were out of EU-units at the time, and shipped me a US-unit instead intentionally. I will never know, but with the high error rate people are talking about I'm starting to wonder. They don't seem to care much about the details.


----------



## morcegolas

kreisl said:


> They are not supported in mc3000, please re-check the list of supported batteries. Do you have a conductive spacer?



As I told you I'm waiting for my spacer to arrive, in the meantime can I use my R/C batteries connectors to do the spacer? Or shouldn't I use them at all? I didn't start any program, just seeing if it detects the battery and it does. 

Thanks.



Viking said:


> Normally I wouldn't complain about it. But with the high error rate gearbest apparently has I think people should be informed. I'm not completely convinced this was just a mistake. It could also be because they were out of EU-units at the time, and shipped me a US-unit instead intentionally. I will never know, but with the high error rate people are talking about I'm starting to wonder. They don't seem to care much about the details.



I had zero problems with my first order with GB, this MC3000 EU Plug charger


----------



## JB

Viking said:


> I'm not completely convinced this was just a mistake. It could also be because they were out of EU-units at the time, and shipped me a US-unit instead intentionally.



At the end, I think all the charger units are the same. It's just the supplied power cord is different.

Yeah, they might have shipped you the US power cord version intentionally. But look on the bright side, that's better than them telling you the unit is out of stock and making you wait, or giving you a refund right? 

Anyway, I received my UK power cord version fine from gearbest. Perhaps I was lucky.


----------



## kreisl

morcegolas said:


> As I told you I'm waiting for my spacer to arrive, in the meantime can I use my R/C batteries connectors to do the spacer? Or shouldn't I use them at all?


i got my spacers from Fasttech. cheaper there hh. my DMM returns a 0.01Ohms reading on the spacer, pretty good. 
in the meantime your two questions are answered in the FAQ section of the manual


----------



## morcegolas

kreisl said:


> i got my spacers from Fasttech. cheaper there hh. my DMM returns a 0.01Ohms reading on the spacer, pretty good.
> in the meantime your two questions are answered in the FAQ section of the manual



My manual only have 7 questions in FAQ, maybe you refer to the last one. 
I will wait then, and now that I saw that not all devices uses this battery. Some of them uses the CR123A 3.0v, is there any rechargeable version of this?






Thanks!


----------



## -Archie-

Yes, sure: it's called RCR123A.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Any good brand to search?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> Any good brand to search?




I will suggest you start by reading here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/CR123A and rechargeable substitutes UK.html


----------



## ilgrank

@kreisl: I have an idea for a new feature:
Make the Programs exportable as XML, so that a database of 'recipes'could be made.
Sharing the programs among the users could help the less expert among us, enhance the experiments, and the best recipes would be available to everyone..
what do you think of it? Given MC Monitor is already able to read from the charger, it should be trivial to make the programs exportable..

Thanks and happy new year to everyone!


----------



## kreisl

thanks ilgrank, the idea was already listed in the list


----------



## TeMpL

morcegolas said:


> As I told you I'm waiting for my spacer to arrive, in the meantime can I use my R/C batteries connectors to do the spacer? Or shouldn't I use them at all? I didn't start any program, just seeing if it detects the battery and it does.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I had zero problems with my first order with GB, this MC3000 EU Plug charger


Same here. All ok


morcegolas said:


> Thanks kreisl, already ordered the spacers from DealExtreme this weekend.


----------



## TeMpL

TeMpL said:


> Same here. All ok


In What timeframe can we expect working
bluetooth app?

March? April? Or never?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This waiting game is getting to me. Not long before Jan 10 lol.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> This waiting game is getting to me. Not long before Jan 10 lol.



If you're planning to order from hkequipment, the ship date is Jan 15


----------



## Sharkie

Viking said:


> Normally I wouldn't complain about it. But with the high error rate gearbest apparently has I think people should be informed. I'm not completely convinced this was just a mistake. It could also be because they were out of EU-units at the time, and shipped me a US-unit instead intentionally. I will never know, but with the high error rate people are talking about I'm starting to wonder. They don't seem to care much about the details.





Viking said:


> I finally recieved the charger. But of course with a us plug, thanks to gearbest :-(
> Luckily I have an adaptor, but it is not okay to ship the wrong unit. But at least it doesn't seem to be bricked.


 I did receive a EU plus instead of US... From gearbest. Had to use another wire that i had on hand. If not it would have been like receiving a toy "without battery's"...


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hke equipment it is. Too many errors from gb from what i am seeing here.


----------



## Viking

Sharkie said:


> I did receive a EU plus instead of US... From gearbest. Had to use another wire that i had on hand. If not it would have been like receiving a toy "without battery's"...



I don't like to use an adaptor permanently, so I ended up cutting of the US plug and replacing it with an EU plug instead. It doesn't exactly look good though. Fortunately I will only see it when plugging and unplugging the unit 
I also had an EU wire laying around that fits the psu, but unfortunately it was with an inferior rating so I don't dare to use that.
Under normal circumstances I would have prefered waiting for the right unit to come. But thinking a little more about it, in this particular case were the waiting period could be over a month or more, I would have told them to just ship the US unit if they had asked me in advanced.

The analyzer itself I'm very satisfied about so far. Right now I'm analyzing some lfp cells for capacity to better match the cells.


----------



## Andrey

The new iPhone app version 1.2.3 was made available on the App Store today. As for previous update, description just says 'fix bug'.
Could anyone provide more details on what was changed?


----------



## MarioJP

Viking said:


> I don't like to use an adaptor permanently, so I ended up cutting of the US plug and replacing it with an EU plug instead. It doesn't exactly look good though. Fortunately I will only see it when plugging and unplugging the unit
> I also had an EU wire laying around that fits the psu, but unfortunately it was with an inferior rating so I don't dare to use that.
> Under normal circumstances I would have prefered waiting for the right unit to come. But thinking a little more about it, in this particular case were the waiting period could be over a month or more, I would have told them to just ship the US unit if they had asked me in advanced.
> 
> The analyzer itself I'm very satisfied about so far. Right now I'm analyzing some lfp cells for capacity to better match the cells.


Can you replace the cord with EU plug? Thought one end you can disconnect.


----------



## Viking

Yes you can disconnect the cord from the converter and replace it. It looks very similar to this one. 
https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Bosch-eBike-EU-Mains-Plug-Lead


----------



## ilgrank

kreisl said:


> thanks ilgrank, the idea was already listed in the list


Thanks Kreisl.. sorry, I had missed the list.
Can you please tell me where to find it?
It's just a list of proposals or the features will be implemented in the future?
Again, thanks!


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@kreisl any news of fw upgrade errors that were causing some units to brick?
Thanks.


----------



## -Archie-

ilgrank said:


> Thanks Kreisl.. sorry, I had missed the list.
> Can you please tell me where to find it?
> It's just a list of proposals or the features will be implemented in the future?
> Again, thanks!



BTW, *kreisl*, I have proposal for you: maybe it would be handy if you'll add essential information (like list of bugs/features per released SW and FW versions, most current version of FW, list of suggestions accepted for the future implementation, and so on) to your first message of this tread?

IMHO, it might simplify the access to basic information, and reduce repeated questions...


----------



## morcegolas

HKJ said:


> I will suggest you start by reading here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/CR123A and rechargeable substitutes UK.html



Thanks HKJ! :twothumbs

Made my first order from FT, 2 18650 and 10 cr123A LiFEPO4


----------



## kappa7

-Archie- said:


> BTW, *kreisl*, I have proposal for you: maybe it would be handy if you'll add essential information (like list of bugs/features per released SW and FW versions, most current version of FW, list of suggestions accepted for the future implementation, and so on) to your first message of this tread?
> 
> IMHO, it might simplify the access to basic information, and reduce repeated questions...



It's already here.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> - suggestion: SOV could still be accessible even after abnormal program termination


Regarding that, suggestion, could you change "SOV" to "SOV and DDV", meaning, of course, the diagram drawing view? I'm sure some people think the suggestion implies the accessibility of DDV as well, but who knows what it will imply to the developers...


----------



## -Archie-

kappa7 said:


> It's already here.


Ok, at least it's on the first page...

Of course, I have one more proposal - to remove that silly "Eneloop" mode from list of battery chemistries, but I have strong feeling that proposal will be rejected, isn't it? :banned:


----------



## HKJ

-Archie- said:


> Ok, at least it's on the first page...
> 
> Of course, I have one more proposal - to remove that silly "Eneloop" mode from list of battery chemistries, but I have strong feeling that proposal will be rejected, isn't it? :banned:




Why not disable it in the system configuration, then you are basically rid of it.
Anyway you will probably not see it that often, it is only when making new programs you may have to see it.


----------



## -Archie-

It was the first thing I did. But IMHO its existence is somewhat contradicts with charger's "semi-pro & advanced" image...


----------



## tjh

-Archie- said:


> It was the first thing I did. But IMHO its existence is somewhat contradicts with charger's "semi-pro & advanced" image...


Yea, I tend to agree, I was very surprised a charger that's so tweakable has a bizarre profile for a specific set of batteries.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I like the Eneloop option. Less things to tweak when charging or refreshing in advanced mode. I can make a quick program with Eneloop and select the type of Eneloop battery and I'm done. 

Just hide it and stop trying to take functionality away from the charger. 

If you want to be annoyed by something, be annoyed that AAA batteries are very finicky to load. The nub on the negative terminal just barely touches them when pressed all the way down in the socket. 

Never had a charger that couldn't get that basic geometry correct.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> I like the Eneloop option. Less things to tweak when charging or refreshing in advanced mode. I can make a quick program with Eneloop and select the type of Eneloop battery and I'm done.


What namely you like there, except for incorrect discharge level?



> Just hide it and stop trying to take functionality away from the charger.


It's not functionality, hence the complain. Do anyone needs adding CycleEnergy, EneLong, Infinium and ReCyko "chemistries", too? 




> If you want to be annoyed by something, be annoyed that AAA batteries are very finicky to load. The nub on the negative terminal just barely touches them when pressed all the way down in the socket.
> 
> Never had a charger that couldn't get that basic geometry correct.


That's true. But this is a hardware flaw, less likely to be fixed in near future, unlike SW/FW issues...


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I didn't read the whole thread but does anyone's MC3000 fan makes loud worrying noises and seems hesitant when starting and then becomes quite silent when fully rotating after like 10 seconds ?


----------



## vex_zg

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

*Firmware Improvement Suggestion: *if STOP button is pressed and it is about to stop the process for one more slots, add a question:

_END PROCES IN SLOTS (1,3,4) ? (ENTER=YES)_

*Rationale:* to prevent accidental process stopping. Since "STOP" button is used for some functionality, one mistaken press can stop one or all processes, which is a big loss in time and information if you are doing any more complex process (such as cycling, refreshing, dischargin, etc...)


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vex_zg said:


> *Rationale:* to prevent accidental process stopping.



Very good suggestion!


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



romteb said:


> I didn't read the whole thread but does anyone's MC3000 fan makes loud worrying noises and seems hesitant when starting and then becomes quite silent when fully rotating after like 10 seconds ?



Mine doesn't do that, but according to Russian forum, some of samples are quite noisy...


----------



## hey_tommy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vex_zg said:


> *Firmware Improvement Suggestion: *if STOP button is pressed and it is about to stop the process for one more slots, add a question:



I agree that this should be fixed - however, for the sake of keeping with the charger's operation style, and to make this a lot simpler to implement for the firmware guys at SkyRC, I would suggest that instead of having a confirmation, simply require the user to PRESS AND HOLD the STOP button to abort all slot operations, instead of merely a press.

I'm not against the confirmation menu - just think that SkyRC might be more willing to do the press-and-hold thing, instead of having to also code for screen output & refresh.


----------



## SubLGT

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I think I will wait for v3.0 of this charger.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



SubLGT said:


> I think I will wait for v3.0 of this charger.



I am not a battery charger expert but I can say this one really enables me to know how the battery's are doing I I like the app.


----------



## sector9

I received my MC3000 yesterday from GB. No issues with the order. I recommend tracking with https://www.17track.net/en to see the USPS side of things once it arrives in the US if they ship via Post NL.

A few first impressions:

So far, it seems like an impressive charger. It is quite large!

I have compared the volts reading with my Fluke 87 and it appears to be within about 0.005 V or so. Excellent.

I have iOS 9.2 and the MC3000 app is working for me. I have the latest update to the app released yesterday.

Error: Delta is spelled "Detal"




Bug?: It seems that pushing on this cogwheel button on the detailed slot view doesn't do anything. Perhaps it is just an indicator of which slot you have selected, but it animates like a button.




Suggestion: When you use the charger to program, the charge and discharge current dynamically change to recommended values. The app doesn't do that. I wish it would.

Currently, besides the bugs that have been pointed out by others, the biggest downside to this charger is the inability to name programs. I envision a charger where you can edit programs on the charger, in the app, and on the PC program (including the program name). I have high hopes for the future firmware and app development of this charger


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vex_zg said:


> *Firmware Improvement Suggestion: *if STOP button is pressed and it is about to stop the process for one more slots, add a question:
> 
> _END PROCES IN SLOTS (1,3,4) ? (ENTER=YES)_
> 
> *Rationale:* to prevent accidental process stopping. Since "STOP" button is used for some functionality, one mistaken press can stop one or all processes, which is a big loss in time and information if you are doing any more complex process (such as cycling, refreshing, dischargin, etc...)


I support that. Currently it is very easy, especially for a beginner (done it several times myself), to accidentally abort all active programs and then :hairpull:


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I am glad that i am able to give moral  support while Sky leaves for 2 weeks for the US trip to CES 2016 Las Vegas.



It seems whole SkyRC staff is on that trip, as my Email isn't answered.  May I expect their response next week? Just have no previous experience communicating with them, so maybe you can shed any light whether delayed reply is normal for them...


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> If you want to be annoyed by something, be annoyed that AAA batteries are very finicky to load. The nub on the negative terminal just barely touches them when pressed all the way down in the socket.



I have found that with AAA's the contact is easy to make by holding down the plus end and then releasing the negative terminal. This raises the bottom of the cell just slightly to meet the nub.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I've got a question, which probably only *kreisl* can answer with any degree of certainty; how much space is allocated in the charger's internal memory for the measured voltage values (or how many values are stored) from which the graph in the DDV is built and is it (or will it be) possible to export them somehow to a PC to examine in detail? *MC3000 Monitor* certainly doesn't have this functionality right now; it only receives current values and it's obviously not convenient to have a PC connected to the charger all the time.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

so many suggestions and criticisms yikes 

PCLS exports your session to *.BMP/*.CSV. The CSV-file contains the current values and the voltage values, both with 3 decimals resolution. So i am not sure what you are talking about. Sure it is not convenient to leave the PC connected all the time, no argument here. and of course it was considered to offer a SD card slot for PC-independent logging but only if there is actual user demand for such a feature. 

The charger's internal memory is full, which is one of the reasons why CYCLE COUNT was limited to N=99 and why CYCLE mode in SOV does not show charged capacities. Unfortunately there is no healthy way to use ZIP compression internal algorithm before internal storage, so bytes need to be stored internally as is. I have no details on the implementation and memory allocation for DDV. I wished that DDV showed further graphs, 
e.g. SysTemp


----------



## morcegolas

If we can get DataExplorer to work in RPi, you can always power your RPi with charger USB output, and log everything without having a pc consuming Watts all day/night long. My Floppy will try see that in mid January Lets pray for him to get this working!


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> PCLS exports your session to *.BMP/*.CSV. The CSV-file contains the current values and the voltage values, both with 3 decimals resolution. So i am not sure what you are talking about.


The "current" part in my "receives current values" expression was an adjective (meaning "presently elapsing, occurring in or existing at the present time,most recent"), *not* a compound noun component. The graph has to be drawn and redrawn by the charger, which (at least to me) implies that the past values are stored somewhere in its memory and I was wondering if they could be retrieved. Can you ask the developers about it?


----------



## croarcher

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Postman delivered it from GB like a postcard,ordered 17.12.,without additional costs and mess; I am currently in Germany.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Either I'm totally inept or the current firmware is way beyond ridiculous. In my NiMH program I set TRICKLE C. to OFF, RESTART VOLT to 1.42 and DELTA PEAK to 0dV with the intention that it would restart charging in case of a premature 0dV termination. Imagine my surprise when I found the cell in the 0.05A TRICKLE charge mode at 1.37V some time later. It seems the RESTART VOLT option currently has no meaning whatsoever. *kreisl*, can you comment?

Interestingly, the manual sort of suggests it's not [fully] implemented; it says "_What exactly will happen when the voltage has dropped <...>? That depends on the firmware version. Generally speaking, the slot restarts some charging._"


----------



## samgab

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Well, finally placed my order for this today, so I thought I'd comment to subscribe to this thread. Looking forward to receiving this charger. Bit of a step up in most areas from my old C9000...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> In my NiMH program I set TRICKLE C. to OFF, RESTART VOLT to 1.42 and DELTA PEAK to 0dV with the intention that it would restart charging in case of a premature 0dV termination. Imagine my surprise when I found the cell in the 0.05A TRICKLE charge mode at 1.37V some time later.


Maybe you discovered a bug. The point is, with RESTART VOLT being set to 1.42, the voltage should not drop below 1.42 coming from above, because that's where the recharging automatically sets in. Btw, is your battery in good health? This _could _explain something or maybe not 

Okay. Let's assume that recharging has started correctly (at 1.42). Then yes, the LCD would display the "T" symbol in TOV and do recharging in form of ... well obviously the charger cannot literally restart the _original _program (e.g. REFRESH, CYCLE) neither does it afaik a RE-PEAK in NiMH (it could though, should it?). Since the battery, after dropping a few miliVolts, is still nearly full, the maker's idea was to feed a small current to re-top off the battery … which is comparable to the concept of trickle charging. So please don't get confused only because you're seeing the "T" symbol on the screen 

We'll have a closer look at the RESTART option in future and suggest improvements of its present implementation. I usually set it to OFF and don't bother lol


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So it is official; all current owners of this charger are now beta-testers :naughty:

I don't think it qualifies for a bug, it looks more like a missing (or totally screwed up) feature. Given the state of the current firmware it would not at all surprise me to hear that all those SkyRC testers worked in their sleep.

The program was "Charge", not "Cycle", "Refresh" or "Break_in". The cell is virtually unused (only ever used for testing), it's certainly not the cause. What happened is (most obviously) trickle charge at 0.05 A after the 0dV termination, even though I a) set TRICKLE C. to OFF and b) never specified the 0.05 A value.

I wonder where the obviousness of "cannot literally restart the original program" comes from because this is, actually, exactly what's implied by the option's name :wave:

While I appreciate your reassurance about the future work on the RESTART option's implementation, for now it would be very useful to know *what* that implementation _is_.


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> ...The charger's internal memory is full,


They could upgrade to STM32F103RC with double FLASH and SRAM. Pinout and functionally identical, negligible cost increase.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Come to think of it, perhaps its internal memory being full is the actual reason why its functionality is so crippled. I mean it's hard to believe that the ineptitude of the coders and testers (even if they are Chinese) is so massive as not to see all those flaws, which are obvious to your average user. Perhaps they had not correctly estimated the size of the program that would incorporate the functionality described in the manual and thus left out everything that they thought most people would not need. It that's the case, they will perhaps try to optimize the firmware code so that it could fit into its space with all advertised functionality and should that fail, well, they will just update the manual :santa:


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



samgab said:


> Well, finally placed my order for this today, so I thought I'd comment to subscribe to this thread. Looking forward to receiving this charger. Bit of a step up in most areas from my old C9000...


Exactly the same for me. Looking forward to having a decent AA charger that does -dv/dt termination, not voltage based.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It seems that this charger has too many flaws such as.. Problems with battery making contact when inserting the cells for one. Based on these recent posts . Are most on here having second doubts about the charger?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> It seems that this charger has too many flaws such as.. Problems with battery making contact when inserting the cells for one. Based on these recent posts . Are most on here having second doubts about the charger?


My unit does not have problems with batteries making contact.

You don't have the charger.

You don't know from own experience what you're talking about.

My unit does not have problems with batteries making contact.

But probably this charger won't fit your bill anyway. It's okay it can't fit everybody's bill.

So don't bother. You can move on now. Thanks. 

Btw check out HKJ's most recent charger review, the Skilhunt M4D. May suit you better!


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> It seems that this charger has too many flaws such as.. Problems with battery making contact when inserting the cells for one. Based on these recent posts . Are most on here having second doubts about the charger?



No. HKJ's review was very favourable and the amount of cells it supports is fantastic. I bet there will be some small hardware iterations, but most of the issues can be fixed with a firmware update.

Of course it remains to be seen if SkyRC will keep putting out firmware updates - there's been so many products I've bought that are firmware updateable that never, ever get an update....

Most of the flaws people have found are edge cases, it doesn't seem to have any major fundamental flaws.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The SkyRC MC3000 is a complex and very fine charger. It has excellent performance but is not for everyone. Read the excellent HKJ review for a very complete analysis. I find the charger easy to program and use. It is way ahead of any other charger that I have seen for accuracy and capability. Once you become familiar with the charger it becomes very easy and fast to use. Thanks to SkyRC and Kreisl for making it a reality.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> My unit does not have problems with batteries making contact.
> 
> You don't have the charger.
> 
> You don't know from own experience what you're talking about.
> 
> My unit does not have problems with batteries making contact.
> 
> But probably this charger won't fit your bill anyway. It's okay it can't fit everybody's bill.
> 
> So don't bother. You can move on now. Thanks.
> 
> Btw check out HKJ's most recent charger review, the Skilhunt M4D. May suit you better!


Didnt mean to criticize. I was going based on others and just checking. My apologies[emoji2]


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'll embrace constructive criticism uttered by _owners_.

And i'll ignore all negativism or cynicism in this thread and the persons who've been uttering such.

We, the early adopters, are not beta testers but co-developers lol 

Except for the added CE certification there won't be any changes in the electronics or hardware, only eventual minimal changes in the assembly. I am enjoying the firmware as it is and the rudimentary PCLS. DEX is sophisticated, highly mature software per se, and its mc3k support will be improved with our feedback and bug reports. I don't use or test the bluetooth app, in future i'd prefer a mc3k1 without bluetooth module but 25$ off more affordable.

My traditional stuff like flashlight, battery, charger, knife, multitool, usb thumb, tv, refrigerator, hair clipper, or keychain does not need to be smart. I don't believe in the future commercial success of SmartEverything.


----------



## ilgrank

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> We, the early adopters, are not beta testers but co-developers lol



+1 for Kreisl 

I've been one of the first to put up a pre-order (on GB) and I'm *really* satisfied with it, and I've encountered *none* of the abovementioned issues so far (apart from the Android app crashing,but never had been too much interested in it anyways)

What I'd like? A more feature-rich PCLS, with auto-sizeable graphs maybe or a better designed iterface.. or larger fan with the ability to cool the batteries too 

Kudos to Kreisl and the great people at SkyRC for such a great piece of hardware!! :twothumbs


----------



## retrocon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> My traditional stuff like flashlight, battery, charger, knife, multitool, usb thumb, tv, refrigerator, hair clipper, or keychain does not need to be smart. I don't believe in the future commercial success of SmartEverything.



With you on that mostly. But it has a cool factor to switch from my TiVo app on my iPhone over to the MC3000 app to check charge status from the couch. Doesn't do much for my waist line, however ;-)


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> In my NiMH program I set TRICKLE C. to OFF, RESTART VOLT to 1.42 and DELTA PEAK to 0dV with the intention that it would restart charging in case of a premature 0dV termination. Imagine my surprise when I found the cell in the 0.05A TRICKLE charge mode at 1.37V some time later. It seems the RESTART VOLT option currently has no meaning whatsoever. *kreisl*, can you comment?
> 
> Interestingly, the manual sort of suggests it's not [fully] implemented; it says "_What exactly will happen when the voltage has dropped <...>? That depends on the firmware version. Generally speaking, the slot restarts some charging._"





B-2Admirer said:


> The program was "Charge", not "Cycle", "Refresh" or "Break_in". The cell is virtually unused (only ever used for testing), it's certainly not the cause. What happened is (most obviously) trickle charge at 0.05 A after the 0dV termination, even though I a) set TRICKLE C. to OFF and b) never specified the 0.05 A value.



So you're saying that your battery finished charging normally, but then a trickle charge was still being applied despite you setting it to OFF?

Hmm... I've not had that happen, but I didn't specify any RESTART VOLT.

Secondly, I wonder if your program will work "with the intention that it would restart charging in case of a premature 0dV termination". If there is a premature 0dV termination, wouldn't the charger see it as an error? I thought the RESTART VOLT function will only kick in after a successful charge and thereafter if the voltage of the battery drops to the specified RESTART VOLT number. Maybe kreisl can clarify on this.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> So you're saying that your battery finished charging normally, but then a trickle charge was still being applied despite you setting it to OFF?


The charging ended before the cell was full because of a false 0dV positive, which this charger is very much prone to giving. Thus, the voltage was just 1.37 V or so, which is below the value I set for RESTART VOLT. Subsequent events I described already. So, once again, the RESTART functionality is messed-up and nobody appears to know what it really does, apart from applying the 0.05 A charge current that is.



JB said:


> Secondly, I wonder if your program will work "with the intention that it would restart charging in case of a premature 0dV termination". If there is a premature 0dV termination, wouldn't the charger see it as an error? I thought the RESTART VOLT function will only kick in after a successful charge and thereafter if the voltage of the battery drops to the specified RESTART VOLT number. Maybe kreisl can clarify on this.


 I don't think the charger is clairvoyant, so I don't see how it could see a premature charge termination as an error (and if it could, it would make more sense just to continue charging). "Premature termination" is my judgement, not the charger's. I don't think the requirement for the voltage of a charged cell to be initially above the RESTART VOLT setting makes sense and since "something" happened in my case it's clear that there's no such requirement in the RESTART algorithm.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> We, the early adopters, are not beta testers but co-developers lol


 As a co-developer, may I suggest adding a bit of intelligence to the 0dV detection, namely adding the ability to specify the minimum voltage at which this type of termination can happen? I believe no NiMH cell is full when it's below 1.40 V and this is where all false 0dV positives occurred for me.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

give us more information on the battery you're trying to charge and the full set of program settings you're using. and we'll tell you the optimal program settings or 'll try to reproduce the charger behavior.

the last time i checked i was satisfied with the RESTART implementation.

feel also free to post the *.BMP generated by PCLS, so that we have some visualization of the behavior.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> The charging ended before the cell was full because of a false 0dV positive, which this charger is very much prone to giving.



I've not tried charging a NiMH cell using 0dV. I'll try that this weekend to see if the charger gives a false 0dV positive.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> the last time i checked i was satisfied with the RESTART implementation.


That's good, but can you tell *what* that implementation is (what does the function do)? So far it's not explained in the manual or anywhere else.

I'm looking for information, advice is not what I'm looking for.



JB said:


> I've not tried charging a NiMH cell using 0dV. I'll try that this weekend to see if the charger gives a false 0dV positive.


 Safe to say that it will depend on the (cell capacity) / (charge current) ratio. The higher it is the greater the probability of that happening.


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> My unit does not have problems with batteries making contact


+1, specially with aaa cells the contact is fine. I love this charger so much that I bought my first flishlight just to have more eneloops to charge :naughty:


----------



## theburtse

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just received my charger! After 14 months of reading about it [emoji12] 

Now, I'm charging my D cell and the app says something about eddy current.... 
What would be an appropriate value here? 

Brgds to you all!


----------



## Anders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi there theburtse.

Welcome as a Poster 

I would choose 3A to those cells.

Anders


----------



## sector9

So what gives with the reporting of capacity on this charger?

I ran a refresh cycle overnight on 4 batteries: 2 AAA Eneloops and 2 18650 LiIons.

*Slot 1: Eneloop AAA*
Charger reported capacity 742 mAh
iPhone app reported capacity 867 mAh

*Slot 2: Eneloop AAA*
Charger reported capacity 767 mAh
iPhone app reported capacity 906 mAh

*Slot 3: LiIon 18650*
Charger reported capacity 3153 mAh
iPhone app reported capacity 3125 mAh

*Slot 4: LiIon 18650*
Charger reported capacity 3086 mAh
iPhone app reported capacity 3069 mAh


----------



## JB

sector9 said:


> So what gives with the reporting of capacity on this charger?
> 
> I ran a refresh cycle overnight on 4 batteries: 2 AAA Eneloops and 2 18650 LiIons.
> 
> *Slot 1: Eneloop AAA*
> Charger reported capacity 742 mAh
> iPhone app reported capacity 867 mAh
> 
> *Slot 2: Eneloop AAA*
> Charger reported capacity 767 mAh
> iPhone app reported capacity 906 mAh
> 
> *Slot 3: LiIon 18650*
> Charger reported capacity 3153 mAh
> iPhone app reported capacity 3125 mAh
> 
> *Slot 4: LiIon 18650*
> Charger reported capacity 3086 mAh
> iPhone app reported capacity 3069 mAh



I wonder, maybe one is reporting the discharge capacity and the other, the charge capacity.


----------



## Mr Floppy

JB said:


> I wonder, maybe one is reporting the discharge capacity and the other, the charge capacity.



That was my thought too but it is reversed on Li ion?


----------



## sector9

I ran another refresh cycle on the same batteries using the same programs to figure out this mystery. I closely watched the charger to follow the capacity during the different charge>discharge>charge cycles. Here's the data

Slot 1: Eneloop AAA
Charge #1 capacity 79 mah
Discharge capacity 767 mah
Charge #2 capacity 847 mah
Charger reported capacity 767 mah
iPhone app reported capacity 847 mah

Slot 2: Eneloop AAA
Charge #1 capacity 81 mah
Discharge capacity 793 mah
Charge #2 capacity 877 mah
Charger reported capacity 793 mah
iPhone app reported capacity 877 mah

Slot 3: 18650 LiIon
Charge #1 capacity 60 mah
Discharge capacity 3139 mah
Charge #2 capacity 3124 mah
Charger reported capacity 3139 mah
iPhone app reported capacity 3124 mah

Slot 4: 18650 LiIon
Charge #1 capacity 33 mah
Discharge capacity 3097 mah
Charge #2 capacity 3078 mah
Charger reported capacity 3097 mah
iPhone app reported capacity 3078 mah

So it is obvious that the iPhone app has a *bug* where it reports the charge capacity as capacity, when we would much rather know the capacity measured via discharge.

Now, the big mystery is how can this charger report that the discharge capacity is *higher* than the charge capacity for LiIon cells? It should be the other way around, like it is on the Eneloop data


----------



## JB

sector9 said:


> Now, the big mystery is how can this charger report that the discharge capacity is *higher* than the charge capacity for LiIon cells? It should be the other way around, like it is on the Eneloop data



I'm interested to know the answer to this as well.

Anyway, could you post your Refresh settings?


----------



## billcushman

On the second charge cycle the liIon batteries probably terminated with less total charge than on the first charge cycle. This may have been caused by a temperature difference. The first charge cycle was very short, and the second charge cycle was long. If you perform another discharge cycle, I would expect the discharge capacity to be less than 3124mAh for slot 3, or 3078mAh for slot 4. Another factor can be revealed by noting the watt hour data on the discharge cycle. I don't know if the watt hours can be shown on the charge cycle without watching the charger as the program progresses.

If you run a discharge test, be sure you don't let the charger run a charge cycle first, or if you do, be sure and add that charge capacity to the totals listed above. Watt hours are probably a much truer rating of battery capacity than mAh. I have noted both on batteries I have tested and they often don't track when comparing identical cells.


----------



## B-2Admirer

While working with the data logging software I noticed that the charger stops sending data about a slot as soon as the program in the slot finishes. I wonder why it is so and if it can be changed in the next firmware. Not sending any data after program completion makes no sense to me; as long as the cell remains in the slot its voltage is still being measured and so is the current if it is applied (trickle charge).


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> If you want to be annoyed by something, be annoyed that AAA batteries are very finicky to load. The nub on the negative terminal just barely touches them when pressed all the way down in the socket.
> 
> Never had a charger that couldn't get that basic geometry correct.



Mine has the same issue. The unit will not make contact with AAA cells, unless you raise the minus end quite considerably while pressing down the plus end at the same time as stated by maukka. I will call this a flaw.
For AA and RCR123 cells I haven't had any issues.


----------



## sector9

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*


Slot 1
Capacity 
(mAh)Slot 1
Energy
(Wh)Slot 2
Capacity
(mAh)Slot 2
Energy
(Wh)Slot 3
Capacity
(mAh)Slot 3
Energy
(Wh)Slot 4
Capacity
(mAh)Slot 4
Energy
(Wh)Discharge 1
30749.33143
9.531069.530969.4Charge 1
306912.9313613.2309513308212.9Discharge 230519.331259.530919.530669.3Charge 2306512.9312913.1309913307912.9

So I ran a series of charge-discharge cycles with 4 LiIon 18650 batteries. All of them are relatively new (<5 cycles each) and all are based on the Panasonic NCR18650B cell (all of them are protected cells rated at 3400 mAh but they are from 3 different manufacturers, likely with different protection circuits). All of the batteries were already charged, so I ran a discharge program for 30 mins to discharge them slightly. The first cycle was then a charge to make sure they were fully charged before starting the first reported discharge cycle above. The settings were the following: Batt type LiIion, Mode Cycle, Capacity 4080 mAh, Charge current 1.70A, Discharge current -0.68A, Charge rest 30 min, Discharge rest 30 min, Cycle count 2, Cycle mode C>D>C, Target volt 4.20V, Termination 0.17A, Restart volt Off, Discharge reduce Off, Cut volt 3.00V, Cut temp 45C, Cut time Off. I 

The data for capacity still doesn't make sense to me. The charge and discharge numbers are essentially the same. The energy numbers are more in line with what I'd expect.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I now see that GB has the charger in stock. hmmm...tempting but not sure yet lol. The promo price is over though.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Viking said:


> Mine has the same issue. The unit will not make contact with AAA cells, unless you raise the minus end quite considerably while pressing down the plus end at the same time as stated by maukka. I will call this a flaw.
> For AA and RCR123 cells I haven't had any issues.



I have tried with some more AAA cells of different brands to test for contact issues.
My Eneloops AAA cells have no difficulty making contact. But some older energizer has, I have to raise the minus end considerably on these. Same goes for my duracell's, although these I only have to raise marginally for making contact.

It seems the analyzer is a little sensitive for the size of aaa cells. To the naked eyes the eneloops are looking a little bit thicker/wider than the others.

When knowing how to handle the different brands, it isn't a big problem though.


----------



## dssguy1

Viking said:


> Mine has the same issue. The unit will not make contact with AAA cells, unless you raise the minus end quite considerably while pressing down the plus end at the same time as stated by maukka. I will call this a flaw.
> For AA and RCR123 cells I haven't had any issues.



Thanks for the backup. Not sure what world the people are living in that think it isn't at least a little problem. 

Clearly you can't just pop them in and press them down, they don't make negative contact consistently. 

Main annoyance is that this should have been very easy to detect and fix in the early stages of the development.


----------



## hey_tommy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sector9 said:


> The data for capacity still doesn't make sense to me. The charge and discharge numbers are essentially the same. The energy numbers are more in line with what I'd expect.



What about the capacity data doesn't make sense to you? It looks perfectly fine to me.

If you're referring to capacity being below 3400 mAh, it's because NCR18650B's are rated for 3200 mAh (typical 3350 mAh), at 2.5V cut-off during discharge, and 65 mA termination voltage for the CV phase of charging - so basically, you're both under-charging and under-discharging the batteries (which is much better for battery health, mind you - but that is what's causing the discrepancy between rated and tested capacity - along with the incorrect belief that the battery has a 3400 mAh capacity).

Have a look at the NCR18650B datasheet here - but basically, Std. discharge current is 1625 mA, cut-off is 2.5V, termination current is 65mA, rated capacity is 3200 mAh, and typical capacity is 3350 mAh : http://industrial.panasonic.com/lecs/www-data/pdf2/ACA4000/ACA4000CE417.pdf


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sector9 said:


> The data for capacity still doesn't make sense to me. The charge and discharge numbers are essentially the same. The energy numbers are more in line with what I'd expect.


Today i quick-tested my new (=unused) Protected NCR18650B Seiko Gold Plated, datecode *2014-09-27*, just to check the calibration level of my unit. I had calibrated my charger a month ago after my UT61E digital multimeter, so the mc3k capacity readings would equal exactly what my DMM would read.

Today i am happy to share my test results in form of photo proof, because at some point the PCLS stopped logging (or the device stopped sending data to the PC). This happened on my system before, and who knows which part to blame (bug in: PCLS, mc3k, or WinXP?). Maybe DEX would not have exhibited the same unfortunate behavior. I'll eventually find out under which circumstances that 'stopped logging' occurs. So long, back on topic.

First off, the 2-3 similar datasheet PDF's (~4 pages) for NCR18650B which are floating on the internet are obviously not the full datasheets. It is instructive to study the complete information given in NCR18650GA full datasheet pdf (16 pages!) and compare it with the ~4 pages of our NCR18650B. I'll do that in some future post. The NCR18650B pdf does specify the most relevant points for today's test:


Extracts from NCR18650B 4-pages datasheet PDF said:


> 3200mAh -0.64A 20°C "Rated Capacity"
> 3250mAh -0.65A *25°C* "Minimum Capacity" => for NCR18650GA and NCR18650B, C = Minimum Capacity
> 3350mAh -0.65A 25°C "Typical Capacity"
> 3400mAh "Nominal Capacity"
> 
> C.CURRENT: "1.625A" => C/2 with C=3250mAh; let's choose *1.62A*
> Maximum charge current "2.38A/cell" =>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 0.73[230769]C with C=3250mAh
> TARGET VOLT: "*4.20V*"
> Charging method: CC-CV
> Charging time: "4.0hr" => let's choose *OFF *
> TERMINATION: "65mA" => C/50; let's choose *0.06A*
> C.RESTING: "≤60min"; let's choose *0min*
> 
> D.CURRENT: "-0.65A" => -C/5 with C=3250mAh; let's choose *-0.65A*
> Maximum discharge current "2C" (see graph) or "4.875A" => 1.5C with C=3250mAh
> CUT VOLT: "2.5V/cell"; let's choose *2.50V*
> room temperature: "25±2°C"
> room humidity: "65±20%"
> TEMP CUT: "≤70°C"; let's choose *70°C *(max. cell surface temperature specified in NCR18650GA pdf)
> "Criteria": "More than 300min."
> sample newness: "new batteries delivered *within the last 7 days*"



We learn that Panasonic distinguishes between 4 different 'capacity names' and that the term 'Nominal Capacity' can be just anything and does not need to correspond to any of the 3 other capacity names. Basically 'Nominal Capacity', in the widest sense, can be any freely chosen number which the marketing department opts to just print on the label. If UltraFire releases a 18650 on ebay with the name "UF18650 6000mAh", then per definitionem the nominal capacity of that UF battery _is_ 6000mAh. This label (=name) does not say anything about the battery's actual rating (Rated Capacity at temperatureA), Minimum Capacity (at temperatureB), nor Typical Capacity (at temperatureB). We all know, the nominal capacity of NCR18650B _is_ 3400mAh, no matter how a datasheet pdf redefines the term locally for the purpose of the very pdf. More important for us to know is how the manufacturer defines the "C" (as in 1C, 2C, 0.2C, etc). C is, in fact, defined differently, depending on the manufacturer and depending on the battery model. C can be defined as the Rated, Minimum, Typical, or Nominal Capacity, or else. After studying the pdf's of NCR18650GA and NCR18650B, the reader comes to the conclusion that in both cases Panasonic defines C as the Minimum Capacity. C=3350mAh for NCR18650GA, and C=3250mAh for NCR18650B. Knowing C is important, if the reader wants to understand the full contents of the pdf's. For example, in the NCR18650B pdf, there are 4 discharge curves labeled as "0.2CA 0.5CA 1CA 2CA". In order to translate these figures into amperages, one must know the value of "CA" (which is our C).

"0.2CA" translates to "C/5" or "3250mA/5" = 650mA = 0.65A (CC discharge)

Charge current was given as "1.625A". That corresponds to 0.5C or C/2.
Charge termination current was given as "65.0mA". How come? Because that's 1/50 or 2% of our C (C/50 = 3250mA/50 = 65mA), or that's 1/25 of our initial charging current (1/25 *1.625A = 0.065A = 65mA), depending on how you wanna see it. What matters is that after every discharge run the battery must be recharged with the same parameters: *0.5C* charge, CC-CV, termination at *1/25* of the 0.5C, which means a very low termination current of 65mA.

The NCR18650GA pdf also states something about the charging duration ("4.0hrs") and the discharging duration ("Criteria: More than 300 min."). Interesting.

So with the above (blue) parameters entered in the mc3k (CYCLE C>D, N=1), we should expect the Typical Capacity, 3350mAh (or at least 3250mAh if all failed on us thus far), if the cells were factory fresh and my room had a temperature of 25°C. Well, my cells are over 15 months old ex factory, yet unused ("Like New"), and my room is *21…22°C* cold. Impossible to reach 3350mAh in such a colder environment. Absolutely impossible to reach 3400mAh, because that's just a label by the marketing department. And that's what i got as discharge test result for the first 2 cells ("B1 and B2"), B1 in #1, B2 in #2:

#1: B1 -3326mAh -11.97Wh in 307min5sec 
#2: B2 -3315mAh -11.92Wh in 306min1sec

rough check for #1: (307*60+5)/3600 *650 = 3326.7361111…mAh, CHECK OK!
rough check for #2: (306*60+1)/3600 *650 = 3315.1805555…mAh, CHECK OK!

impressive result for stored (=unconditioned) batteries. :huh:
max capacities increase a bit after a few more cycles (=reconditioned), very interesting!



,

,

,

,


----------



## hey_tommy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> First off, the 2-3 similar datasheet PDF's (~4 pages) for NCR18650B which are floating on the internet are obviously not the full datasheets. It is instructive to study the complete information given in NCR18650GA full datasheet pdf (16 pages!) and compare it with the ~4 pages of our NCR18650B. I'll do that in some future post. The NCR18650B pdf does specify the most relevant points for today's test:



FYI, the full (afaik) NCR18650B datasheet here (link taken from BatteryBro), in case you need it: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0674/3651/files/Panasonic_NCR18650B.pdf


----------



## sector9

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



hey_tommy said:


> What about the capacity data doesn't make sense to you? It looks perfectly fine to me.
> 
> If you're referring to capacity being below 3400 mAh, it's because NCR18650B's are rated for 3200 mAh (typical 3350 mAh), at 2.5V cut-off during discharge, and 65 mA termination voltage for the CV phase of charging - so basically, you're both under-charging and under-discharging the batteries (which is much better for battery health, mind you - but that is what's causing the discrepancy between rated and tested capacity - along with the incorrect belief that the battery has a 3400 mAh capacity).
> 
> Have a look at the NCR18650B datasheet here - but basically, Std. discharge current is 1625 mA, cut-off is 2.5V, termination current is 65mA, rated capacity is 3200 mAh, and typical capacity is 3350 mAh : http://industrial.panasonic.com/lecs/www-data/pdf2/ACA4000/ACA4000CE417.pdf



As I have explained in previous posts, the problem is not the discharge capacity. The problem is the charge capacity. You would _expect_ it to be 10-15% _higher_ than the discharge capacity. Not the same. This is because there will be imperfect transfer of capacity from charger to battery, mainly due to heat loss.


kreisl said:


> Today i quick-tested my new (=unused) Protected NCR18650B Seiko Gold Plated, datecode *2014-09-27*, just to check the calibration level of my unit. I had calibrated my charger a month ago after my UT61E digital multimeter, so the mc3k capacity readings would equal exactly what my DMM would read.
> 
> Today i am happy to share my test results in form of photo proof, because at some point the PCLS stopped logging (or the device stopped sending data to the PC). This happened on my system before, and who knows which part to blame (bug in: PCLS, mc3k, or WinXP?). Maybe DEX would not have exhibited the same unfortunate behavior. I'll eventually find out under which circumstances that 'stopped logging' occurs. So long, back on topic.
> 
> First off, the 2-3 similar datasheet PDF's (~4 pages) for NCR18650B which are floating on the internet are obviously not the full datasheets. It is instructive to study the complete information given in NCR18650GA full datasheet pdf (16 pages!) and compare it with the ~4 pages of our NCR18650B. I'll do that in some future post. The NCR18650B pdf does specify the most relevant points for today's test:
> 
> 
> We learn that Panasonic distinguishes between 4 different 'capacity names' and that the term 'Nominal Capacity' can be just anything and does not need to correspond to any of the 3 other capacity names. Basically 'Nominal Capacity', in the widest sense, can be any freely chosen number which the marketing department opts to just print on the label. If UltraFire releases a 18650 on ebay with the name "UF18650 6000mAh", then per definitionem the nominal capacity of that UF battery _is_ 6000mAh. This label (=name) does not say anything about the battery's actual rating (Rated Capacity at temperatureA), Minimum Capacity (at temperatureB), nor Typical Capacity (at temperatureB). We all know, the nominal capacity of NCR18650B _is_ 3400mAh, no matter how a datasheet pdf redefines the term locally for the purpose of the very pdf. More important for us to know is how the manufacturer defines the "C" (as in 1C, 2C, 0.2C, etc). C is, in fact, defined differently, depending on the manufacturer and depending on the battery model. C can be defined as the Rated, Minimum, Typical, or Nominal Capacity, or else. After studying the pdf's of NCR18650GA and NCR18650B, the reader comes to the conclusion that in both cases Panasonic defines C as the Minimum Capacity. C=3350mAh for NCR18650GA, and C=3250mAh for NCR18650B. Knowing C is important, if the reader wants to understand the full contents of the pdf's. For example, in the NCR18650B pdf, there are 4 discharge curves labeled as "0.2CA 0.5CA 1CA 2CA". In order to translate these figures into amperages, one must know the value of "CA" (which is our C).
> 
> "0.2CA" translates to "C/5" or "3250mA/5" = 650mA = 0.65A (CC discharge)
> 
> Charge current was given as "1.625A". That corresponds to 0.5C or C/2.
> Charge termination current was given as "65.0mA". How come? Because that's 1/50 or 2% of our C (C/50 = 3250mA/50 = 65mA), or that's 1/25 of our initial charging current (1/25 *1.625A = 0.065A = 65mA), depending on how you wanna see it. What matters is that after every discharge run the battery must be recharged with the same parameters: *0.5C* charge, CC-CV, termination at *1/25* of the 0.5C, which means a very low termination current of 65mA.
> 
> The NCR18650GA pdf also states something about the charging duration ("4.0hrs") and the discharging duration ("Criteria: More than 300 min."). Interesting.
> 
> So with the above (blue) parameters entered in the mc3k, we should expect the Typical Capacity, 3350mAh (or at least 3250mAh if all failed on us thus far), if the cells were factory fresh and my room had a temperature of 25°C. Well, my cells are over 15 months old ex factory, yet unused ("Like New"), and my room is *21…22°C* cold. Impossible to reach 3350mAh in such a colder environment. Absolutely impossible to reach 3400mAh, because that's just a label by the marketing department. And that's what i got as discharge test result for the first 2 cells ("B1 and B2"), B1 in #1, B2 in #2:
> 
> #1: B1 3326mAh 11.97Wh in 307min5sec
> #2: B2 3315mAh 11.92Wh in 306min1sec
> 
> rough check for #1: (307*60+5)/3600 *650 = 3326.7361111…mAh, CHECK OK!
> rough check for #2: (306*60+1)/3600 *650 = 3315.1805555…mAh, CHECK OK!
> 
> impressive. :huh:



That's nice but I'm not seeing any of the charge capacity data? Perhaps I missed it.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



hey_tommy said:


> (link taken from BatteryBro)


Thanks for the full datasheet, appreciated!

I've complemented the quote section in my previous post. Excellent :thumbsup:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I didn't share charged capacity data because this was a quick-test (charge from 3.8V to 4.2V, then discharge from 4.2V to 2.5V).



sector9 said:


> As I have explained in previous posts, the problem is not the discharge capacity. The problem is the charge capacity. You would _expect_ it to be 10-15% _higher_ than the discharge capacity. Not the same. This is because there will be imperfect transfer of capacity from charger to battery, mainly due to heat loss.



You're wrong. Please understand the following correct. :tinfoil:



light-wolff said:


> You aren't. Coulomb efficiency (that is, mAh out / mA in) is very close to 100% for intact li-Ion cells.
> 
> If you (1) charge a battery to a defined state, then (2) discharge it with any current to any state, and (3) recharge it under exact same conditions as in (1), you can measure during recharge how much was discharged in step 2. The loss should be less than 1%.
> 
> With energy (Wh) it's different because charge and discharge voltage is not the same. This is where the abovementioned losses go. But there is practically no charge (mAh) loss.
> 
> Any charge lost in a Li-Ion cell goes into parastic side reactions and contributes to cell aging and permanent capacity loss.


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sector9 said:


> The data for capacity still doesn't make sense to me. The charge and discharge numbers are essentially the same. ...


As it ist to be expected for Li-Ion cells.



sector9 said:


> The problem is the charge capacity. You would _expect_ it to be 10-15% _higher_ than the discharge capacity. Not the same. This is because there will be imperfect transfer of capacity from charger to battery, mainly due to heat loss.


Sorry, not true.
Li-Ion batteries do have over 99% charge efficiency, that is, mAh in = mAh out. Any difference is an unwanted side reaction and accounts for permanent capacity loss.

Heat loss is something different, it relates to energy (Wh), not capacity (charge, Ah). Here efficiency is below 100%, depending on charge and discharge current.

AFIAK I already wrote this somewhere but can't find it...

Edit: kreisl was better at finding it, squirrel's nature maybe


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Another new update on the stream since today for IOS. Fix some bug. 

I do not have received my mc3000...shipped first week of december. Probably receive it this week.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Another new update on the stream since today for IOS. Fix some bug.
> 
> I do not have received my mc3000...shipped first week of december. Probably receive it this week.



Why already two updates on IOS and 0 to android?
The android app doesn't even work, it crashes on most devices! IMHO the development on android should prioritized to reach at least an app who doesn't simply crash at startup...


----------



## TeMpL

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

2 updates already for ios and none so far for android.... Discrimination!


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Finally received it today from Gearbest after 5 weeks to Montreal. 2 on 2 with GB. No customs nor duty fees either.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Finally received it today from Gearbest after 5 weeks to Montreal. 2 on 2 with GB. No customs nor duty fees either.


Humm,
I live in Montreal and had to pay custom fees. What option did you use ?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Sharkie said:


> Humm,
> I live in Montreal and had to pay custom fees. What option did you use ?



The free shipping ( Post nl) but with insurance extra. The value written of that package was around 19.00 and the type was "document" .

It has certainly pass direcly without being check.


----------



## hey_tommy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Sharkie said:


> Humm,
> I live in Montreal and had to pay custom fees. What option did you use ?



Sharkie, I'd be willing to bet gyzmo2000 probably used the regular free shipping option, not the expedited free shipping that you and I chose (ours was couriered via DHL, his was probably delivered via Canada Post).

Lesson learned - next time, if I order anything form GearBest, I'll be definitely choosing the regular shipping option, even if it means a couple extra weeks in the mail. Parcels that are delivered by Canada Post in Canada are a lot less likely to be charged duty (and definitely no brokerage fees, which the couriers always charge in addition to duties).

Gyzmo2002 - did you get a tracking number with your shipping option at all? Also, welcome and hello from a fellow Canadian (I'm in Toronto).


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@hey_tommy I ordered with free shipping and extra insurance and payed 0 taxes in Portugal. If I have ordered with DHL I have 100% sure that I have to pay the taxes, this way the customs sometimes let the packages proceed without checking them.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes hey_tommy. Free shipping with tracking. I never use DHL, UPS or FEDEX because you are sure to pay duties and brookerage fees. Thanks for the welcome[emoji106]


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So GB it is. One more chance. Only because they did followed up, and was corrected, and lastly, it was just bad timing.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes hey_tommy. Free shipping with tracking. I never use DHL, UPS or FEDEX because you are sure to pay duties and brookerage fees. Thanks for the welcome[emoji106]


Thanks gyzmo2002, hey_Tommy from Toronto was right, next time i will free shipping, they gave expedited for free.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Similarly to my above NCR18650B quick test, here are my capacity quick test results of my "new" NCR18650GA -0.2C 2.50V at 21°C room temperature, very first cycle out of the box:
#1: G1 61mΩ 3362mAh 12.18Wh 05:01:06
#2: G2 59mΩ 3372mAh 12.22Wh 05:02:00
#3: G3 63mΩ 3365mAh 12.19Wh 05:01:21
#4: G4 58mΩ 3365mAh 12.19Wh 05:01:29

Since these are results of stored batteries (unused since date of manufacture), the capacities will increase minimally after having recycled them a few times, a process called reconditioning. Also, more capacity could be squeezed out if i had charged with a termination current lower than 0.06A ("67mA", or C/50 with C=3350mAh).


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

GB support is horrible, they don't understand English, only Inglish =D


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I've ordered from HKEquipment, shipping tomorrow hopefully.
With the hit-and-miss from GB I thought I'd pay the extra $5, especially as I'm in New Zealand.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> ... Since these are results of stored batteries (unused since date of manufacture), the capacities will increase minimally after having recycled them a few times, a process called reconditioning.



One point worth mentioning that could possibly prove puzzling. After long time storage, the CE (Coulombic Efficiency) can be slightly > 1 in the first few cycles, i.e. you get more charge out than you put in. This is not a source of perpetual energy but, rather, it is caused by Lithium atoms diffusing in and out of a region of the negative electrode that overhangs the positive electrode. Amazingly, one can easily visualize this with the naked eye because the diffusion causes visible color transitions in the graphite as the Lithium gradually diffuses - see the interesting photos in this layperson accessible article: Understanding Anomalous Behavior in Coulombic Efficiency Measurements on Li-Ion Batteries, by Balazs Gyenes, D. A. Stevens, V. L. Chevrier, and J. R. Dahn.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have a question...

I've read the excellent review of this charger, but here's something I don't understand (which I know you smart people will know and think what a twit I am)

When charging a NIHM in the charger, the current is turned off so that voltage can be measured. Apparently a lot of chargers do this to get an accurate voltage measurement with less noise.
This is shown in the charging graphs, there are dips where the current is off so it drops and produces a "messy" graph.

Why don't we see this in the LI-ION charge? Is it safe/normal/acceptable to measure voltage with current on? Do I mis-understand how the CV/CC charge of a LI-ION works? What I read is that it charges until the cell's voltage reaches 4.2V then switches to a constant current. The graphs show voltage, so surely it must be measured.

Why the difference?

Thanks!


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have placed the order. This time from HKE. Not risking GB again, an ordeal i do not wish to go through again, especially after a lengthy read from others. Nothing but horrible experiences from GB. Completing the order from HKE was pretty much straightforward. With that said. I Was this close of getting the Opus BT-C3100 v2.2. But glad i didn't lol. Now is just wait and see.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Here's hoping that HKE will deliver a better customer experience for you.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Why the difference?



Probably because NiMH termination requires a very precise voltage measurement, this is not needed for LiIon.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

According to the description of the "Break_in" mode, "_the battery shall be <...> charged at 0.1C CC for exactly 16h including a 6h overcharge_". The C.CURRENT option is thus unmodifiable and set automatically depending on the NOMINAL option. However, even though the minimum NOMINAL is 100 mAh, the minimum C.CURRENT is 50 mA (setting NOMINAL to 400 mAh or less does not cause C.CURRENT to decrease), effectively restricting the "Break_in" mode to 500+ mAh cells. Will this be fixed? Since minimum TRICKLE C. is 10 mA it's clear that the charger is able to maintain current that low...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> effectively restricting the "Break_in" mode to 500+ mAh cells.


yeah i've noticed that too (and i didn't care much because who is wasting 39h+ life time and electrical house energy with 400mAh or smaller cells? in such a case it would be more sensible and economic to just buy new Eneloop AAA and get over with it lol).

i'll try to learn what the technical reasoning behind the 0.05A limitation in Break_in mode is and if etc 

btw, there hasn't been any firmware update after v1.03 because i haven't submitted a bug report yet.

and i haven't submitted a bug report because i haven't retested your reported bugs.

and i haven't retested your reported bugs because my unit was busy 24/7 for weeks with cycling batteries (FDK, NCR, Samsung 146).

but now it is finally time for me to retest the reported bugs and submit a report :duh2:


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

What's the technical reasoning for using the underscore character in the "Break_in" name (sorry if it's been discussed already)? Would a hyphen mess the whole firmware up?


----------



## TeMpL

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Will Battery holder be updated to correctly hold properly inserted AAA cells ? Will first units be updated too ? REcall ?
With such flaw unit can not be sold in Europe or get CE certification ?!? 
With "lifted" cell temperature measurement I not correct.. Is that ok ? or can battery explode ?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TeMpL said:


> Will Battery holder be updated to correctly hold properly inserted AAA cells ? Will first units be updated too ? REcall ?
> With such flaw unit can not be sold in Europe or get CE certification ?!?
> With "lifted" cell temperature measurement I not correct.. Is that ok ? or can battery explode ?


"Battery holder", you're talking of (the geometry of) the slider, right? 
No, the sliders will not get "updated". They'll stay the same.


----------



## TeMpL

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes! lower presspoint/contactpoint of slider shuld be 1-2mm lower to make proper contact when AAA cells ar inserted..
Now it hits the battery isolation (plastic) on minus pole of AAA cell.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i know what you mean. it's noted that the sliders should be _optimized _one day.

for the time being your case is pretty much covered with FAQ no.4 in the manual 

i have started going thru the list .. hmmm


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

What's the deal with the AAA "Issue"

Is it a real problem, or just a minor annoyance?

I have a heap of AAA cells, proper termination of AA/AAA is one of the reasons I bought this.

HKJ doesn't mention anything about AAA problems in his review.

Is it a show stopper, making AAA impossible to charge?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> HKJ doesn't mention anything about AAA problems in his review.
> 
> Is it a show stopper, making AAA impossible to charge?



I tested with eneloop and they fit perfectly. It is not really a problem, you just have to lift the backend of the cell slightly up.
This is the case with any 10440 or AAA cell that has the wrapper covering a bit of the cell bottom.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> I tested with eneloop and they fit perfectly. It is not really a problem, you just have to lift the backend of the cell slightly up.
> This is the case with any 10440 or AAA cell that has the wrapper covering a bit of the cell bottom.


This sets my mind at ease, thank you.
I use Imedion AAA's and they have a flat, fully metal bottom.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This shouldn't be a problem for the AAA eneloops. The - end is more exposed. That be the first thing i am going to do when the charger arrives. Test eneloops AAA's. Thanks for the idea lol.


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'm having an occasional problem where the MC3000 reports values more often than once a second through usb. When I power off and on the charger and reconnect the usb, it works again. In the picture below, the real time is shown on the right (13:47 for the Slot 1), but the graph's x axis shows 17:36. The exported csv file also goes all the way up to 17:28.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TeMpL said:


> Yes! lower presspoint/contactpoint of slider shuld be 1-2mm lower to make proper contact when AAA cells ar inserted..
> Now it hits the battery isolation (plastic) on minus pole of AAA cell.


How about 10440's?

In order for the lower slider nub to hit the minus(-) pole of the battery, the nub would need to ride very low, less than 6.0mm from the bottom.






In comparison, a 26650 battery has its center at 13.0mm from the bottom and we don't want the nub to be too much off-center. 7mm off-center, that'd be much. I've seen off-centricity on small chargers with 26650 support and very small slider heights yikes. Sure those small sliders work. Anyway the mm-location of the lower nub has to be a compromise to fit all supported battery sizes kinda equally well, not only the 10440's 

i bin

@maukka
i cee. i haven't experienced your problem yet. What are the details of your computer system, hardware, software?


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> yeah i've noticed that too (and i didn't care much because who is wasting 39h+ life time and electrical house energy with 400mAh or smaller cells? in such a case it would be more sensible and economic to just buy new Eneloop AAA and get over with it lol).
> 
> i'll try to learn what the technical reasoning behind the 0.05A limitation in Break_in mode is and if etc
> 
> btw, there hasn't been any firmware update after v1.03 because i haven't submitted a bug report yet.
> 
> and i haven't submitted a bug report because i haven't retested your reported bugs.
> 
> and i haven't retested your reported bugs because my unit was busy 24/7 for weeks with cycling batteries (FDK, NCR, Samsung 146).
> 
> but now it is finally time for me to retest the reported bugs and submit a report :duh2:


 I suppose you bring me good news. As for the "Break_in" problem, I think the easiest and most logical solution would be simply decreasing minimum charging current to 10 mA (we already discussed that via PM here). Since the charger can maintain 10 mA, I don't see a reason to set the lower limit any higher for any mode... especially when there are cells to which 50 mA is too high. Increasing the range of chargeable cells just can't be wrong 

Also, what about the issue I mentioned earlier? Is it a bug or intentional and either way is it going to be changed?


----------



## kreisl

You want 0.01A instead of 0.05A as minimum allowable charging current? Before such a major  change in the official device specification could be approved for release and offered to the public, it would have to be tested behind closed doors for quite some time, by the very me too. I have put this idea on the list but it wouldn't be dealt with until later, when everything else is super good and there is nothing else to improve on and we are bored with life lol. Offering lower charge transfer rates is not a higher priority.



B-2Admirer said:


> While working with the data logging software I noticed that the charger stops sending data about a slot as soon as the program in the slot finishes. I wonder why it is so and if it can be changed in the next firmware. Not sending any data after program completion makes no sense to me; as long as the cell remains in the slot its voltage is still being measured and so is the current if it is applied (trickle charge).


I am not sure what you're talking about. PCLS? When a slot has finished (e.g. "Slot4 Mode: LiIon Cycle FINISH"), PCLS does continue to display the real-time values of the momentary Current and momentary Voltage. And Temperature. It stops the Time and the Capacity, though. And it stops the _graphing _of Current/Voltage/Temperature/Capacity. That's fine with me.

In case you want to see continued _graphing _after a Charge (or Discharge) Operation Mode has finished, then in SPV enter a value for C.RESTING (or D.RESTING) to determine the period for how long you want to see continued graphing after FINISH.

i bin again


----------



## gyzmo2002

I played since yesterday with this charger and I found it easy to program. I have already done 20 of them. No problem with the charger and the ios application to date.

It could be kind if someone that know excell to do a template in column with all the advanced setting written from top left to buttom left and program numbers from top left to right. The template must be editable with computer.

As a suggestion, after entered our settings, we could post them to help people with the value. They experts could check at them and give advices . I already did it by hand but my handwriting is horrible.

If someone could do the template, just respond and I will editate my post with your name to tell the others we have found somebody. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Somebody asked me about aaa fitting in the charger. I have taken some pics with eneloop pro.

The first and second one are in normal position. Contact is done but not by much. I did a refresh in this position without issue.

The third and fourth one are with negative lifted to for contact centred. In this position, the temp. sensor doesn't touch the cell.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ozqbu3doa6gfmyf/AADdazmzrMwSBTCqxHEGBYxSa?dl=0

The first picture zoomed:
http://s11.postimg.org/jg0chvu37/image.jpg


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vex_zg said:


> *Firmware Improvement Suggestion: *if STOP button is pressed and it is about to stop the process for one more slots, add a question:
> 
> _END PROCES IN SLOTS (1,3,4) ? (ENTER=YES)_
> 
> *Rationale:* to prevent accidental process stopping. Since "STOP" button is used for some functionality, one mistaken press can stop one or all processes, which is a big loss in time and information if you are doing any more complex process (such as cycling, refreshing, dischargin, etc...)



Very good suggestion. Don't forget the ios application too. After pushing the red button under the cell, ask a question on the phone to confirm the stop process.


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> You want 0.01A instead of 0.05A as minimum allowable charging current? Before such a major  change in the official device specification could be approved for release and offered to the public, it would have to be tested behind closed doors for quite some time, by the very me too.


Can I be the one to test it behind closed doors? 


kreisl said:


> I am not sure what you're talking about. PCLS? When a slot has finished (e.g. "Slot4 Mode: LiIon Cycle FINISH"), PCLS does continue to display the real-time values of the momentary Current and momentary Voltage. And Temperature. It stops the Time and the Capacity, though. And it stops the _graphing _of Current/Voltage/Temperature/Capacity. That's fine with me.
> 
> In case you want to see continued _graphing _after a Charge (or Discharge) Operation Mode has finished, then in SPV enter a value for C.RESTING (or D.RESTING) to determine the period for how long you want to see continued graphing after FINISH.


Both PCLS and DataExplorer, that's why I thought it was the charger not sending data. Now that you pointed me to it, I can see that the values displayed in PCLS after a program finishes are indeed updated, but not logged and that really makes no sense at all to me. What if I, for instance, want to monitor self-discharge over a few days? The charger allows that, but the logger does not...

Although in my case I wanted to monitor what happened after that undocumented RESTART functionality kicked in. Your advice to enter a RESTING value helps somewhat, but 4 hours (the limit) may not be enough to capture the desired. Entering a RESTING value also prevents the charge current from being indicated on the charger's display if the RESTART functionality does kick in during the resting time (PCLS shows and logs everything correctly, but the charger shows ÷ and zero current when in reality there's trickle charge at 0.05 A).


----------



## Minimoog

Do NiZn batteries charge correctly on this charger? I seem to remember some comment in this thread about a termination issue that was being looked into but can't find it now.

Is it a serious problem?


----------



## kreisl

Minimoog said:


> Do NiZn batteries charge correctly on this charger? I seem to remember some comment in this thread about a termination issue that was being looked into but can't find it now.
> 
> Is it a serious problem?



there is no termination issue and there is no problem.

please don't create and don't spread any false facts.

feel free to quote comments by owners.

but don't create your own false statements or claims nor indirectly in form of questions.

there is no termination issue and there is no problem.

a correct and acceptable question would have been "I seem to remember some comment in this thread about NiZn termination but can't find it now. What was that talk again about?"


----------



## TeMpL

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzGdGHHs0zdxbFdQMGRLNHh1VEE/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzGdGHHs0zdxaC1rSjAwcTJIUEE/view?usp=sharing

Which of the "Capacity data" is correct ?


----------



## gyzmo2002

TeMpL said:


> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzGdGHHs0zdxbFdQMGRLNHh1VEE/view?usp=sharing
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzGdGHHs0zdxaC1rSjAwcTJIUEE/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Which of the "Capacity data" is correct ?



Something like that happened in ios. The capacity listed in ios is not the same as the one on mc3000. Perhaps one for the capacity after charged, the other after discharged...I will pay more attention at my next refresh.


----------



## kreisl

TeMpL said:


> Which of the "Capacity data" is correct ?


Whatever the LCD displays is the correctest. Correcter than PCLS (a software which sometimes fails to log the very last 4-6sec of a test run, missing in the CSV dump) and correcter than APP.

The LCD is your friend. She doesn't ly.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> Whatever the LCD displays is the correctest. Correcter than PCLS (a software which sometimes fails to log the very last 4-6sec of a test run, missing in the CSV dump) and correcter than APP.
> 
> The LCD is your friend. She doesn't ly.



I did another refresh and the same results was in the lcd and in the ios apply until the last second of the charge. After this second and terminaison, the capacity jumped about 20mah on the lcd and stayed the same on the apply.

Your answer seems to be the good one.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Could we see the discharged capacity at the end instead the charged one?


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> the capacity jumped about 20mah on the lcd


LCD shows discharged capacity for Refresh operation mode. That's what you mean with "jumped". I see.

Correct English word is "switched".

The LCD switched from displaying the charged capacity to displaying the discharged capacity. That's correct. 

Thanks.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> qu'est-ce que tu veux dire? there is no jumping of capacity on the LCD



La capacité affichée à la fin du cycle est celle de la charge. Peut-on voir celle de la décharge aussi lors d'un refresh?


----------



## Minimoog

kreisl said:


> there is no termination issue and there is no problem.
> 
> please don't create and don't spread any false facts.
> 
> feel free to quote comments by owners.
> 
> but don't create your own false statements or claims nor indirectly in form of questions.
> 
> there is no termination issue and there is no problem.
> 
> a correct and acceptable question would have been "I seem to remember some comment in this thread about NiZn termination but can't find it now. What was that talk again about?"



Hi, I'm not saying there is a problem. I looked back over this thread and found it - in December, when you said that "TERMINATION will be nizn option in next fw update, no prob at all." I was wondering if that mean that there was a termination problem? If there is no problem that is great - just wondered why it was being mentioned.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> LCD shows discharged capacity for Refresh operation mode. That's what you mean with "jumped". I see.
> 
> Correct English word is "switched".
> 
> The LCD switched from displaying the charged capacity to displaying the discharged capacity. That's correct.
> 
> Thanks.



Ok. So the application show the charged capacity and the lcd, the discharged capacity. 

I said jumped because at the last second of the charged, the capacity increased about 20ma. I didn't know that it switched to the discharged capacity.


----------



## gyzmo2002

gyzmo2002 said:


> Something like that happened in ios. The capacity listed in ios is not the same as the one on mc3000. Perhaps one for the capacity after charged, the other after discharged...I will pay more attention at my next refresh.



I was correct. In refresh, the capacity on lcd at the end is the discharged one. And on ios, that is the charged capacity listed because it doesn't switch to the discharged capacity as the mc3000 lcd does. 

Difference of 20mah between charged and discharged capacity at the same rate of 1A, not so bad.

Thank you.


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> Difference of 20mah between charged and discharged capacity at the same rate of 1A, not so bad.



If you CYCLE properly, you'll see that the difference is 0mAh or 4mAh only. Study my other thread to see how "proper CYCLE" is done. Thanks.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> If you CYCLE properly, you'll see that the difference is 0mAh or 4mAh only. Study my other thread to see how "proper CYCLE" is done. Thanks.



Instead to have the same charge-discharge current, it is better to decrease the discharge current.

Exemple: c.current=1A. And d.current=0.8A 

Instead c.current 1A and =d.current=1A

Did I read your test right? Or I missed something?


----------



## kreisl

My test shows that key options are CYCLE, cycle mode C>D. Only after repeated cycling will you see that there is no discrepancy between charged and discharged capacities. And i also like to set the termination current to Zero, which results (in this firmware version) in 8mA termination current.

You can choose any reasonable charge and discharge rates.


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> Although in my case I wanted to monitor what happened after that undocumented RESTART functionality kicked in.


I tested the present implementation of RESTART. It goes like this:

LiIon:
green LED/slot finished => voltage slowly drops => when voltage has reached RESTART VOLT, charger restarts charging with a 'low current CC-CV-algorithm' => during CV-phase the current slowly decreases => when current reaches a very low current say 0.01A (which may be even lower than the TERMINATION parameter in SPV!), the current drops to 0.00A => voltage slowly drops => when voltage has reached RESTART VOLT, charger restarts again charging with etc
( this implementation makes sense to me, it's a nice endless loop )

NiMH:
green LED/slot finished => voltage slowly drops => when voltage has reached RESTART VOLT, charger starts 50mA trickle charge => voltage rises => voltage reaches quasi-stationary plateau and stays there since the trickle charge would not stop.
( this implementation is similar to TRICKLE C. option, got any better concept? )


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> My test shows that key options are CYCLE, cycle mode C>D. Only after repeated cycling will you see that there is no discrepancy between charged and discharged capacities. And i also like to set the termination current to Zero, which results (in this firmware version) in 8mA termination current.
> 
> You can choose any reasonable charge and discharge rates.



I did set the termination to 0.05A in my test that gave me 20mah difference between charged and discharged capacity. I will retry the test to 0.08A as you said.


----------



## kreisl

( it's late i am confused need some sleep )


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> I said 8mA. Not 0.08A.
> 
> Set TERMINATION to Zero.
> 
> Also, use CYCLE mode C>D, and use N=2 or higher.



I did not try the cycling option to date. I tried charge, discharge, refresh, storage. 

That's in the refresh C>D>C that I had 20mah difference between charge capacity and discharge capacity. I was thinking that it was ok but you told me that I should have the same. We don't have value lower than 0.01A ou Off in termination on refresh mode. Are we supposed to have the same charge capacity and discharge capacity on a refresh mode? Or only in a cycle mode with the values you wrote above?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sleeping time, it's 08:00am in Montréal....and 24 hours testing without resting. Thank you Kreisl. Have a nice day.


----------



## B-2Admirer

Minimoog said:


> Do NiZn batteries charge correctly on this charger? I seem to remember some comment in this thread about a termination issue that was being looked into but can't find it now.
> 
> Is it a serious problem?


Read my previous posts in this tread starting from this one, it's all explained. The problem is also listed on the first page among the bugs and suggestions.



kreisl said:


> I tested the present implementation of RESTART. It goes like this:
> 
> LiIon:
> green LED/slot finished => voltage slowly drops => when voltage has reached RESTART VOLT, charger restarts charging with a 'low current CC-CV-algorithm' => during CV-phase the current slowly decreases => when current reaches a very low current say 0.01A (which may be even lower than the TERMINATION parameter in SPV!), the current drops to 0.00A => voltage slowly drops => when voltage has reached RESTART VOLT, charger restarts again charging with etc
> ( this implementation makes sense to me, it's a nice endless loop )
> 
> NiMH:
> green LED/slot finished => voltage slowly drops => when voltage has reached RESTART VOLT, charger starts 50mA trickle charge => voltage rises => voltage reaches quasi-stationary plateau and stays there since the trickle charge would not stop.
> ( this implementation is similar to TRICKLE C. option, got any better concept? )


LiIon RESTART would make sense if the CV-phase termination current was equal to the TERMINATION parameter. If it's lower it means overcharge.

NiMH RESTART is obviously lacking some charge termination routine. Continuous charge at 50 mA is bad for many cells. Clearly, the best idea here is to charge the same way as the program specified, for any chemistry. Said another way, just restart the program.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> How about 10440's?
> 
> In order for the lower slider nub to hit the minus(-) pole of the battery, the nub would need to ride very low, less than 6.0mm from the bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In comparison, a 26650 battery has its center at 13.0mm from the bottom and we don't want the nub to be too much off-center. 7mm off-center, that'd be much. I've seen off-centricity on small chargers with 26650 support and very small slider heights yikes. Sure those small sliders work. Anyway the mm-location of the lower nub has to be a compromise to fit all supported battery sizes kinda equally well, not only the 10440's
> 
> i bin
> 
> @maukka
> i cee. i haven't experienced your problem yet. What are the details of your computer system, hardware, software?



Pretty easy to avoid this issue by just having the AAA nub very low on the negative slider and being slightly shorter than the other nubs. That way, it wouldn't even touch a 18650 or 26650 because their nub would be much higher on the negative slider and taller. That would ensure their nubs touch first if the battery was big enough. 


Saying this was impossible to have done right without ruining some other aspect of the charger is incorrect. 

I run only Eneloop and almost all of them need to be propped up essentially negating the temperature measurement function of the charger.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ignore. I'm Stupid.


----------



## DBrier

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

New Android app is out today, version 2.5.
It works for me now, I can program the charger and see it working now.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Erh .. please could you guys check the following _urgent _bug which i found on my unit (v1.03 FW)?

LiIon REFRESH program. Does C>D>C. Once the program has FINISHED, the LCD shows 4.20V 0.00A. However PCLS shows 0.05A and my external measurement with DMM shows constant 0.055A too, like a forbidden "trickle charge for LiIon" (oops). So the voltage begins to rise, both on LCD and in PCLS. So after 15min (on a 14500 cell) i can see on the LCD 4.25V 0.00A, and that's the point where protected LiIon's cut the connection ("0V") and the finished slots (RED SNB) turns into a ready slot (blinking RED-GREEN SNB).

In HKJ's review i cannot see this (forbidden) 0.05A current after FINISH of REFRESH.

Other than that, the list shows only minor bugs, some of which tested yet unconfirmed


----------



## xtibi

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The latest version 2.5 connects from the first start. It has more options, but unfortunately it doesn't work at all. The App doesn't load saved settings, it always load settings from the charger... (Buyed 3 chargers from HKE and received all before Christmas, tested with Android 4.3 and Lollipop on different smartphones).


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Erh .. please could you guys check the following _urgent _bug which i found on my unit (v1.03 FW)?
> 
> LiIon REFRESH program. Does C>D>C. Once the program has FINISHED, the LCD shows 4.20V 0.00A. However PCLS shows 0.05A and my external measurement with DMM shows constant 0.055A too, like a forbidden "trickle charge for LiIon" (oops). So the voltage begins to rise, both on LCD and in PCLS. So after 15min (on a 14500 cell) i can see on the LCD 4.25V 0.00A, and that's the point where protected LiIon's cut the connection ("0V") and the finished slots (RED SNB) turns into a ready slot (blinking RED-GREEN SNB).
> 
> In HKJ's review i cannot see this (forbidden) 0.05A current after FINISH of REFRESH.
> 
> Other than that, the list shows only minor bugs, some of which tested yet unconfirmed


I have the same fw, I give it a try right now. Nothing I noticed before anyway.


----------



## kreisl

aekvulture said:


> Hi there. I found a small glitch.. The fan in the AUTO mode does not work properly. When the system temperature reaches 52C° dramatically increases the fan speed, temperature plummets to 51C°, the fan turns sharply resets the temperature rises again to 52C° ... and so on. As a result, I'm listening to the constant howling fans, more->less->more->less, and this is fast changes. As if someone indulges with the accelerator pedal in a car.
> Need to add hysteresis in the logic of the fan.


I am deleting this not-a-bug from the list because AUTO fan is implemented as follows and has been approved:


> SysTemp going up:
> brrrh…39°C Fan is off
> *40°C*…42°C Fan level1
> 43°C…45°C Fan level2
> 46°C…48°C Fan level3
> 49°C…51°C Fan level4
> 52°C…Fan level5 = max fan level
> 
> SysTemp coming down:
> …52°C Fan level 5 = max fan level
> 51°C…49°C Fan level4
> 48°C…46°C Fan level3
> 45°C…43°C Fan level2
> 42°C…38°C Fan level1
> *37°C*…brrrh Fan is off
> 
> That's a hysteresis of 3.0°C at the switch point.


I find this AUTO algorithm bastante cool pun intended and i don't see real need to change how it is implemented. 

Personally i don't use AUTO but fixed 50°C because we're talking about SysTemp and as in MH-C9000 there is de facto no cooling of the internals needed if the SysTemp is below 50°C. 50°C are harmless and don't affect the charger in any way. If SysTemp can be held around that temperature with the fan on (Fan level5), then 'all fine'. Once SysTemp cools down to 47°C, my fan turns off because the system is already in the 'all fine' state. That's again a 3.0°C hysteresis at the switch point.

Btw the above detail of info is dependent on the firmware version and therefore cannot be documented in the manual and also better not be included in an official forum review, FW maker discretion advised.


----------



## light-wolff

The 3°C hysteresis ist at the lower switch point, but *aekvultu *is talking about the point where it switches from level 4 to 5 and back, which is at 51/52°C without hysteresis, according to leaked fan behaviour specification.
Maybe the difference between fan speed 4 and 5 is more noticeable than between the other speeds? Because the same behaviour should occur at 1/2, 2/3, 3/4 as well. Only for 0/1 there is a hysteresis.


----------



## kreisl

light-wolff said:


> Because the same behaviour should occur at 1/2, 2/3, 3/4 as well. Only for 0/1 there is a hysteresis.


Oki, sounds logical, thanks! I'll include this idea in the list 
The maker, what were they thinking? 

here the revised AUTO fan:


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Erh .. please could you guys check the following _urgent _bug which i found on my unit (v1.03 FW)?



You're interested in this particular FW only? My MC3k still have 1.02 currently...


----------



## gyzmo2002

gyzmo2002 said:


> I was correct. In refresh, the capacity on lcd at the end is the discharged one. And on ios, that is the charged capacity listed because it doesn't switch to the discharged capacity as the mc3000 lcd does.
> 
> Difference of 20mah between charged and discharged capacity at the same rate of 1A, not so bad.
> 
> Thank you.



In future update, the listed capacity in refresh mode on lcd at the end, instead of the discharged one only, should be the charged and discharged one showed alternatively.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Erh .. please could you guys check the following _urgent _bug which i found on my unit (v1.03 FW)?
> 
> LiIon REFRESH program. Does C>D>C. Once the program has FINISHED, the LCD shows 4.20V 0.00A. However PCLS shows 0.05A and my external measurement with DMM shows constant 0.055A too, like a forbidden "trickle charge for LiIon" (oops). So the voltage begins to rise, both on LCD and in PCLS. So after 15min (on a 14500 cell) i can see on the LCD 4.25V 0.00A, and that's the point where protected LiIon's cut the connection ("0V") and the finished slots (RED SNB) turns into a ready slot (blinking RED-GREEN SNB).
> 
> In HKJ's review i cannot see this (forbidden) 0.05A current after FINISH of REFRESH.
> 
> Other than that, the list shows only minor bugs, some of which tested yet unconfirmed



Everything went fine as usual. You must have seen this before if it suppose to be a bug. The squrell have been in there and mixture with something I think  
PCLS is to small on my screen, can you add that it should be possible to adjust it both ways in the bug report, like a web browser and not only get it smaller? You never know!
Is there a way to copy the first slot settings in the PCLS to the others if you got 4 identical batteries?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Updaye:Yay. Charger has been shipped. Paypal, and HKE are your friend.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So far my bug report contains 20 items, mostly small things, all regarding the firmware including suggestions/ideas for new functions like program naming and IR measurement. The firmware has highest priority these days (before CNY holiday season!!), even though it is already so much maturer than the rest. Imho one cannot really improve PCLS, DEX, or Bluetooth apps, if the device firmware still continues to evolve and change and change. The firmware is the fundament, it needs to be solid, mature, and fixed, then the rest can be build upon it.

Thanks for all your critical feedback and suggestions since market release. Most of the 20 items are from your comments! The list.

EDIT: i'll continue tomorrow, it's 2a.m. and i am done for today, thanks tommy!


----------



## hey_tommy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Erh .. please could you guys check the following _urgent _bug which i found on my unit (v1.03 FW)?
> 
> LiIon REFRESH program. Does C>D>C. Once the program has FINISHED, the LCD shows 4.20V 0.00A. However PCLS shows 0.05A and my external measurement with DMM shows constant 0.055A too, like a forbidden "trickle charge for LiIon" (oops). So the voltage begins to rise, both on LCD and in PCLS. So after 15min (on a 14500 cell) i can see on the LCD 4.25V 0.00A, and that's the point where protected LiIon's cut the connection ("0V") and the finished slots (RED SNB) turns into a ready slot (blinking RED-GREEN SNB).



Kreisl, are you starting a Refresh program directly from the MC3K / loading the "Refresh" program from MC3K slots in PCLS + clicking "Start"? Or are you setting/editing/switching from one mode to another directly in PCLS itself (i.e. clicking on the "Refresh" button in PCLS mode selection)?

Because if it's the latter, I noticed a PCLS bug that caused my Li-Ions to overcharge this way (should have reported it earlier, my bad). It caused one Li-Ion cell to be overcharged to 4.371V, and another to 4.278V (both were set to 4.2V charge voltage). This may be the same thing you're experiencing, perhaps it's not... but in my case, it specifically involves Refresh mode for Li-Ions, and ONLY when that Refresh mode is chosen/edited/programmed in PCLS (as opposed to just loading slots from device and hitting start). Basically, the issue stems from PCLS having bad defaults set for Refresh mode (many mode defaults in PCLS don't match the defaults in the MC3K itself). See my PCLS screenshot below.

*Short explanation: PCLS by default sets a 50 mA trickle charge in Refresh mode IF you switch to that mode directly in PCLS (as opposed to just loading slots from device), and sets restart voltage (referred to as "Hold Voltage" in PCLS) to 4.15V.* I believe it's the trickle charge that's causing the issue, but it could be the hold voltage, I can't remember for certain (I've got a break_in running right now, so can't verify PCLS operation with a connected MC3K at the moment).

Details: I was heading out of town, and just before running out, I remembered to pop in a set of 4 salvaged 18650's into my MC3K, which was already connected to my PC via USB, but didn't have time to do anything else. Later on, I connected to my PC via TeamViewer using my iPad, loaded the programs from slots via the "Load from device" button in PCLS. The loaded programs were all in "Charge" mode, but I wanted to do a "Refresh" instead, so all I did was click on "Refresh" to change the mode, then clicked "OK" to close the options box, and clicked "Start" to begin. Unbeknown to me at the time, when I switched to Refresh mode, a bunch of default options for the Refresh mode were automatically loaded.

I assumed that if I simply switch modes in PCLS, the advanced options that were set for the "Charge" program which was loaded from device slots would remain as is, and PCLS would just change the mode to "Refresh" - but that's not what happened. Turns out that switching modes in PCLS loads option defaults for each mode, and not only do these defaults not necessarily match the mode defaults in MC3K, some of them are actually downright unwanted/dangerous (dangerous for the well-being of the battery, not the "blow up in yo face" kind of dangerous). In the case of "Refresh", PCLS loads a 50 mA trickle charge, as well as sets a 4.15V hold voltage (aka restart voltage). Because I didn't think to click the ">>" button to check the advanced options, I had no idea that some of those options changed when I switched modes.

*Solution:* Until SkyRC fixes PCLS, if you're setting/editing/switching modes in PCLS, make sure you DOUBLE-CHECK EVERY ADVANCED OPTION for the mode by clicking the ">>" button. And if you're not an advanced user, and not sure which options are appropriate for each mode, DO NOT use PCLS to set program options (until fixed by SkyRC) - choose your modes via the MC3K directly, which implements defaults safely and correctly. Hopefully, SkyRC will update PCLS soon, so that its mode defaults (including which options should be disabled entirely for certain modes) match those in MC3K hardware.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi Tommy, thanks for investigating the bug. I have retested LIION REFRESH on my unit without PCLS, without any PC Link USB cable. Just the charger and my DMM. And i can still measure the trickle charge after the program has finished. This means that the bug, on my unit, has nothing to do with PCLS. I also found out that that current has the same value as the TERMINATION current. If termination current was 0.08A, then about this would also be the trickle charge, it's as if the termination current freezes and hence continues, instead of dropping to actual 0.00A.

This phenomenon is absent when i do a LIION CYCLE (with same parameters, C>D>C, N=1, etc), which means it is a clear bug in the LIION REFRESH implementation and can be fixed.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Hi Tommy, thanks for investigating the bug. I have retested LIION REFRESH on my unit without PCLS, without any PC Link USB cable. Just the charger and my DMM. And i can still measure the trickle charge after the program has finished. This means that the bug, on my unit, has nothing to do with PCLS. I also found out that that current has the same value as the TERMINATION current. If termination current was 0.08A, then about this would also be the trickle charge, it's as if the termination current freezes and hence continues, instead of dropping to actual 0.00A.
> 
> This phenomenon is absent when i do a LIION CYCLE (with same parameters, C>D>C, N=1, etc), which means it is a clear bug in the LIION REFRESH implementation and can be fixed.




Have you done a factory reset and is it still there then?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes, yes


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Yes, yes


Strange that nobody else seams to have this problem. Is it the same without the DMM involved between the battery and charger for amp readings?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> Strange that nobody else seams to have this problem.


The bug is there without DMM. i can tell from the rising voltage.

It's a bug. And submitted.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

New update to Android app again. Mine still crashes when I try to make a new profile to my new Eneloop AAA.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> New update to Android app again. Mine still crashes when I try to make a new profile to my new Eneloop AAA.


Mine at least now is able to load on m'y Android priv. But it does crash on new program as well.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I ve found that the new android app crash on saving a profile if you change the charge current. If you let the default current it works.


----------



## gyzmo2002

I have started a refresh mode for 4 ncr18650b at 1A charge and 1A discharge. Same batch cells and brand new but tested 1 time in the Opus.

In the discharge at a certain time, slot 3 and 4 dropped to 0.85A? Any reason?


http://s27.postimg.org/t6wzkzpoj/image.png


----------



## tjh

From HKJ's review:

_Discharging multiple LiIon cells at full current will produce a lot of heat and it can overheat the charger, this is not a problem for the charger, it will just reduce current.

_I expect you're hitting that.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Returned to 1A now:

http://s21.postimg.org/wcyq0jrs7/image.png

Lack of power from the power supply?


----------



## kreisl

What's SysTemp? system temperature?


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> What's SysTemp? system temperature?



Can I go in the GSV without stopping the process?

Just to be sure.


----------



## gyzmo2002

tjh said:


> From HKJ's review:
> 
> _Discharging multiple LiIon cells at full current will produce a lot of heat and it can overheat the charger, this is not a problem for the charger, it will just reduce current.
> 
> _I expect you're hitting that.



It dropped again to .95, same slot. I put a fan on the charger and raised to 1.0A. Your statement seems correct.

I want to check the systemp but don't want to interrupt the process. Can I go to see the temp without interrupting the process?


----------



## kreisl

No, you definitely cannot.

Just click on SNB and go into SOV and scroll down with UP/DOWN button.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Hi Kreisl

Excellent job on this project BTW - lots of hard work I am sure.

Will the next Firmware update remove the Timer cutout from Dummy Mode?


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> No, you definitely cannot.
> 
> Just click on SNB and go into SOV and scroll down with UP/DOWN button.



Ok. I closed the fan and when it will happend again, I will let you know what the Systemp is.


----------



## kreisl

7histology said:


> Excellent job on this project BTW - lots of hard work I am sure.
> 
> Will the next Firmware update remove the Timer cutout from Dummy Mode?


I've submitted this:


> (k#9) In DUMMY UI Mode, for NiMH battery chemistry, the internal default for charge CUT TIME should be 200min, not 180min. That equals the "0.3C" minimum charge rate recommendation.
> (k#10) In DUMMY UI Mode, for Liion battery chemistry, the internal default for charge CUT TIME should be 240min, not 180min. This equals the "4.0hrs" max charge time recommendation by Panasonic 18650 datasheet.



Thanks for compliment


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> Ok. I closed the fan


You've shut off the fan?

omg

turn it back on to keep your charger cool.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> You've shut off the fan?
> 
> omg
> 
> turn it back on to keep your charger cool.



No, an external room fan...lol


----------



## tjh

@kreisl: Is it possible to see the full list of bugs/changes you've submitted?

(I realise this doesn't mean they'll be addressed, just curious)


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Fuc.....I stopped the process.....please in future update,before stopping process, can the charger asks the question to confirm it?


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It was already suggested, and AFAIK accepted...


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> It was already suggested, and AFAIK accepted...



Thank you Archie.


----------



## kreisl

-Archie- said:


> It was already suggested, and AFAIK accepted...


not on the list


----------



## -Archie-

Will it be added?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

List of iPhone app suggestions for improvement, or bugs (in arbitrary order):

- bug: crashes on iOS9. Didn't see crash with last update.

- bug: without power_cycle unexpected non-empty slots: happened to me 1 time since the last update. See a cell in slot 1 but it is empty. Closed the apply with a complete shut down of it but the battery is always in slot 1. Desabled blutooth of the phone and enabled again, same problem. When the process is finished in slot 2, I removed the cell from slot 2 and the cell in slot 1 disapeared in the apply.


----------



## kreisl

-Archie- said:


> Will it be added?


----------



## gyzmo2002

Delete


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> What's SysTemp? system temperature?



85 degrees

Now I know if I want to discharge 4 cells at the same time in a 20 degrees room at 1A and + and keep this 1A, I have to help the charger with an external fan. Without the fan, the charger will drop current capacity to decrease its internal heat.

(4) ncr18650b


----------



## kreisl

> to help the charger with an external fan. Without the fan, the charger will drop current capacity to decrease its internal heat.


i modded my engineering sample and now it doesn't reach 85C anymore. no more current reductions. the mod involves invasive destructive techniques and is not jugendfrei 

i'll keep the documentation of it under the hood until etc sollie :devil:


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> i modded my engineering sample and now it doesn't reach 85C anymore. no more current reductions. the mod involves invasive destructive techniques and is not jugendfrei
> 
> i'll keep the documentation of it under the hood until etc sollie :devil:



A simple external little fan at low, keeps the internal temp under 85C easily. Everybody could do that if he doesn't want current reduction that the charger do. That's really doesn't bother me when you know why the charger do that.


----------



## tjh

gyzmo2002 said:


> A simple external little fan at low, keeps the internal temp under 85C easily. Everybody could do that if he doesn't want current reduction that the charger do. That's really doesn't bother me when you know why the charger do that.



I take it while this is happening the internal fan of the unit is at its maximum?


----------



## gyzmo2002

tjh said:


> I take it while this is happening the internal fan of the unit is at its maximum?



Yes but the charger can handle it in decreasing the charge. In my case, 1A discharge selected, when the internal temp reaches 85C, it decreases the capacity to a lower one in slot 3 and 4. In my case, 0.85A. I did not let it do for a long time, I put and ext fan. I don't know how the int fan could decrease the temp enough if it is already on high and settled to start at 50C.

With the ext fan, when the temp decrease to 83C, the charger increase the capacity to the one settled (1A). I saw that only in discharge. 

In charge cycle, the sys temp stay at 40C and it doesn't need the internal fan.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@Kreisl

Is there a reason why the decreased charge is done only in slot 3 and 4 instead of the 4 slot at a lower decreased? In other words, why the decreased is not done equaly between the 4 slots instead of the third and fourth?


----------



## LiteTheWay

Agreed - I am learning lots with this charger and I am not a beginner with either Li-Ion batteries or flashlights but this charger adds so much capability that it invites you to learn more.




gyzmo2002 said:


> I love this charger. For someone who wants to learn, it is a very good tool. I'm a beginner in the flashlight and charger world and I find this charger easy to use. I'm using the advanced mode since the first day. In a near future, I hope to give more than I take.
> 
> I recommend it to everybody who are in the same case as me. I don't regret this purchase. Thank you guys for your efforts with a special thanks to Kreisl.


----------



## -Archie-

kreisl said:


> i modded my engineering sample and now it doesn't reach 85C anymore. no more current reductions. the mod involves invasive destructive techniques and is not jugendfrei



Hole in the rear wall with cooler mounted against heatsink? :naughty:


----------



## gyzmo2002

-Archie- said:


> Hole in the rear wall with cooler mounted against heatsink? :naughty:



Easier than that guys: A laptop cooling pad.🤔

http://s21.postimg.org/ef7m11jzb/image.jpg


----------



## -Archie-

Will work, too - but I doubt it could be called a "modding"...


----------



## gyzmo2002

The one I have and will try tomorrow:

http://s24.postimg.org/kvhjhhfsl/image.jpg

http://s8.postimg.org/4vm9b0nk5/image.jpg

All I have to do is relocate the fans under the charger. 10secs of work.

Not a modding but an easy way to cool the MC3000.[emoji6]

An could be plugged directly in the charger usb port. I think the charger power supply could handle it easily.


----------



## gyzmo2002

A refresh C>D>C: To be more accurate, I should have done this test from 4.20V to 2.50V with terminaison 65ma and 0.2C(670ma) accordind to the specs of the ncr18650b. 

I did it from 4.22v-2.80v with a terminaison 50ma at 1A charge-discharge.

I wanted to compare the results of the Opus 3100 that are too high than the rated capacity of the cell.

Charged capacity:
http://s11.postimg.org/ojjl9c9wz/image.png

Discharged capacity:
http://s18.postimg.org/wfzif8f89/image.jpg

Near the same results between the charged and the discharged capacity.

@Kreisl: for future update in iOS, we should have the charged and discharged capacity instead of just the charged.


----------



## samgab

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Returned to 1A now:
> 
> http://s21.postimg.org/wcyq0jrs7/image.png
> 
> _*Lack of power from the power supply?*_



Not when *discharging*, that uses very little power from the power supply, it is more a function of dissipating heat, using the energy up in the cells. The discharging is effectively just dissipating energy as heat, so that (heat) is the most likely reason for the current ramping down, as concluded in previous posts already.


----------



## gyzmo2002

samgab said:


> Not when *discharging*, that uses very little power from the power supply, it is more a function of dissipating heat, using the energy up in the cells. The discharging is effectively just dissipating energy as heat, so that (heat) is the most likely reason for the current ramping down, as concluded in previous posts already.



Yes, we already discussed it. That's why I used an external fan in disharged cycle.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Double post


----------



## kreisl

-Archie- said:


> Hole in the rear wall with cooler mounted against heatsink? :naughty:



no holes drilling but one does need a stanley knife :devil:


----------



## JorisFRST

Ordered December 17th with GB, still not sent out, opened paypal dispute as they only want to refund with "store credit". 
So be warned, GB might not be where you want to go for the sake of 5$.

Ordering with HK now.


----------



## MarioJP

JorisFRST said:


> Ordered December 17th with GB, still not sent out, opened paypal dispute as they only want to refund with "store credit".
> So be warned, GB might not be where you want to go for the sake of 5$.
> 
> Ordering with HK now.


I was wondering why it was à bit cheaper than hke. Its not worth the hassle. I know. Order was refunded and ordered from hke instead. Charger is now shipped.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



maukka said:


> I'm having an occasional problem where the MC3000 reports values more often than once a second through usb.


Oki, this has happened to me today too. For the very first time. The LCD reported total time 0t03:58:19 (as verified by o'clock difference) whereas the CSV dump had counted up to 07:43:54. Since the LCD is correct, i'd rather attribute the quirk to PCLS code than to device code, but nobody can be sure.

And it is difficult to reproduce the bug, isn't it?

What we do learn from all this is: We can rely on the data/info given on the LCD screen. When we embark on ambitious recordings of data (CSV), we should always cross check the LCD results (including TIME and TOTAL !!) with data given in the data dump created by PCLS or DEX.

Thanks maukka for noticing the quirk. It'll be difficult to find this bug somewhere in the code of device or of pc link software.

EDIT: actually i have the suspicion that this phenomenon ("bug") is related to operating PCLS AND DEX "on the same day". In the past weeks i've been working with PCLS exclusively. Never observed such a bug. So today i started DEX AND PCLS, they were running at the same time. DEX recorded zig-zag lines, so i exited DEX and let PCLS, which recorded a smooth graph as expected, continue with the test run. This must be it, the cause of the trouble.


----------



## hey_tommy

gyzmo2002 said:


> I have started a refresh mode for 4 ncr18650b at 1A charge and 1A discharge. Same batch cells and brand new but tested 1 time in the Opus.
> 
> In the discharge at a certain time, slot 3 and 4 dropped to 0.85A? Any reason?



What is your system temp before you start the program (in other words, what is your ambient temp)? Also, what is the system temp (not battery temp) when you're seeing this current drop?


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Oki, this has happened to me today too. For the very first time. The LCD reported total time 0t03:58:19 (as verified by o'clock difference) whereas the CSV dump had counted up to 07:43:54. Since the LCD is correct, i'd rather attribute the quirk to PCLS code than to device code, but nobody can be sure.



Yes, I have also suspected this to have something to do with DEX, but today I've not been able to make the bug appear in PCLS whatever I do. Currently DEX's update rate never matches the lcd for me, even after reinstalling. Haven't reset MC3000 though. Also the "zigzag" has happened to me once or twice:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



maukka said:


> Currently DEX's update rate never matches the lcd for me, even after reinstalling.


author is aware and has worked out a fix


----------



## gyzmo2002

hey_tommy said:


> What is your system temp before you start the program (in other words, what is your ambient temp)? Also, what is the system temp (not battery temp) when you're seeing this current drop?



20C in the room, system temp 85C.


----------



## tjh

Super impressed with HKE!
I ordered it ~2 weeks ago, but it always said "Won't ship until the 15th". And it did ship on the 15th... now it's the 19th here in NZ and it's just arrived on my desk!

It's very "beepy", I must turn that off before my co-workers murder me.


----------



## samgab

tjh said:


> Super impressed with HKE!
> I ordered it ~2 weeks ago, but it always said "Won't ship until the 15th". And it did ship on the 15th... now it's the 19th here in NZ and it's just arrived on my desk!
> 
> It's very "beepy", I must turn that off before my co-workers murder me.





JorisFRST said:


> Ordered December 17th with GB, still not sent out, opened paypal dispute as they only want to refund with "store credit".
> So be warned, GB might not be where you want to go for the sake of 5$.
> 
> Ordering with HK now.





MarioJP said:


> I was wondering why it was à bit cheaper than hke. Its not worth the hassle. I know. Order was refunded and ordered from hke instead. Charger is now shipped.




Yeah, I agree. I ordered from GB on 7 Jan, paid the higher price for the "AU" lead (not that that matters with a figure-8 cable as I have plenty of spare AU Fig-8 cables), because it was showing in stock, and paid extra for expedited shipping, but then a day or so after I had placed the order they changed it to out of stock. I sent an email and they said they might send it around 20 Jan, and offered a store credit as an alternative, which I am not happy about either. I've decided to wait until after 20 Jan, and see if they ship it, in which case fine, otherwise I'll be chasing a proper refund also, and will use HKE instead. Pretty disappointing from GB. If I did it again I'd order from HKE in the first place.


----------



## kreisl

tjh said:


> @kreisl: Is it possible to see the full list of bugs/changes you've submitted?


the 21 items which i submitted to them ("list103") are now marked in our list too:
http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list

i don't expect all 21 to be addressed in FW v1.04 but erh .. most of them.


----------



## Rapster

Hello to you all! :wave:

I wanted me very first post on this fora to appear in this thread as I have been following it for a very loooong time and am now able to proclaim that I too am an owner of a SkyRC MC3000.

Coming from an Opus BT-C3100, I have been pleasantly surprised by the charger and its functions - not too complicated at all.

As an aside, I ordered the MC3000 from HKE last Thursday (Thursday 14th January 2016) and the charger was sent out on Friday 15th January 2016 and surprise, surprise, I have the MC3000 in my hands right now in the UK, delivered at 1000hrs on Tuesday 19th January 2016. I must admit that I am pleasantly surprised with the speed of delivery. HKE also packaged the MC3000 beautifully and the box came without a single scratch or dent. Nothing to pay at Customs either, value was marked as $40.

I'm glad to finally join you guys after what seems an eternity of lurking!


----------



## kreisl

Hello Rapster,

welcome on the forum and to the fun with chargers!
I had early versions of BT-C3100, it is a likable product. 
But to be honest i like the MC3000 more.
Today i got a new 4-pack of protected NCR-B's in the mail, datecode Feb 2015. 
I am testing them now with standard charge and -0.65A discharge, which ~equals standard discharge 0.2C for 5.0 hours. 
SysTemp is 70°C with fan on and 23.6°C room temperature on a very sunny winter day.



EDIT: oops, PCLS stopped logging after 8 minutes. PCLS didn't freeze, it's more like that the device stopped sending USB data, closed the data line connection or so. I dunno. Rarely happens. Maybe the fault is my cable? I'll try a different USB cable now. argh, no other cable works.
EDIT2: oops again, PCLS stopped logging, this time the slots at different (yet similar) times. so weird. this phenomenon is either due to device, cable, or PCLS. My guess that it's due to PCLS. i'll log with DEX from now on, just for testing this bug.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> Hello Rapster,
> 
> welcome on the forum and to the fun with chargers!
> I had early versions of BT-C3100, it is a likable product.
> But to be honest i like the MC3000 more.
> Today i got a new 4-pack of protected NCR-B's in the mail, datecode Feb 2015.
> I am testing them now with standard charge and -0.65A discharge, which ~equals standard discharge 0.2C for 5.0 hours.
> SysTemp is 70°C with fan on and 23.6°C room temperature on a very sunny winter day.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: oops, PCLS stopped logging after 8 minutes. PCLS didn't freeze, it's more like that the device stopped sending USB data or so. I dunno. Rarely happens. Maybe the fault is my cable? I'll try a different USB cable now.



I did the same test from 4.20-2.50v

Post #274

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/389732


----------



## Zanders

Did my Panasonics NCR18650B the other day. One of them showed up like this, the voltage curve looks like a hack saw. I was thinking maybe it´s the protection electronics in the battery and removed it, but it´s still the same as before. Someone seen this before, kaputt?




[/IMG]


----------



## billcushman

It may be surprising, but the Charge and Discharge mAh of good Li-Ion cells normally agree within 1%. The discharge mAh may even be higher than the charge mAh. This behavior is fully documented in a scientific article by the ElectroChemical Sociely.

The watt hours of charge will be higher than the watt hours of discharge as expected. The SkyRC has a bug that causes the watt hours to be displayed incorrectly after the refresh is finished. You can see the discharge watt hour if you read the value during rest after discharge (before it starts charging).

If you record the true discharge watt hours and divide it by the discharge Ah, you can get a good value for the average voltage. The result will usually be between 3.6 and 3.7 volts.


----------



## maukka

kreisl said:


> EDIT: oops, PCLS stopped logging after 8 minutes. PCLS didn't freeze, it's more like that the device stopped sending USB data, closed the data line connection or so. I dunno. Rarely happens. Maybe the fault is my cable? I'll try a different USB cable now. argh, no other cable works.



I had the same problem in the beginning, reported it somewhere in this thread. Only two of my many micro-usb cables work with MC3000 so it might be cable related. Others just stop at random times. The shorter the better, I've noticed 

This cheap 0,5 meter one from a scandinavian chain Biltema has been reliable:
http://www.biltema.fi/fi/Toimisto---Tekniikka/Tietokoneet/Johdot/USB-20-A---Micro-2000033376/


----------



## kreisl

Zanders said:


> Did my Panasonics NCR18650B the other day. One of them showed up like this, the voltage curve looks like a hack saw. I was thinking maybe it´s the protection electronics in the battery and removed it, but it´s still the same as before. Someone seen this before, kaputt?


Never seen dis before. Could be due to the slider making poor contact with the rail. Afaik Sky puts some grease on the rail, which is imho unnecessary. So first thing what i did when i got my unit: i opened up the charger carefully, tempered with the installation of the ventilation fan ggg, did a Mr Proper Q-Tip cleaning job of the already clean PCB, checked the general assembly (enough thermal paste on all temp sensors?), and cleaned the conductive(?) grease completely off the rails, also degreased and cleaned the sliders and noticed that they had some sharp (oops) sliding edges which i then rounded off with sandpaper or a lil file. I wouldn't call it modding but maintenance.

Do new owners need to perform maintenance on a freshly manufactured charger? No, of course not. (And it is not easy as popcorn to re-assemble the unit, the sliders and springs are a challenge hh.) But i wanted to check the assembly anyway, so fumbling with rails and sliders came _todo natural_ 

May your unit requires such maintenance. It's the first thing i would try.

And if you don't want to open the charger, you could try to clean the rails with a Q-tip (+alcohol) as best as you can. Also let us know the internal resistance measurement in SOV.


----------



## -Archie-

maukka said:


> I had the same problem in the beginning, reported it somewhere in this thread. Only two of my many micro-usb cables work with MC3000 so it might be cable related. Others just stop at random times. The shorter the better, I've noticed



No surprise, actually. And I'm really interested why on earth this micro connector was selected for MC3k instead of standard Type B...


----------



## -Archie-

Zanders said:


> Did my Panasonics NCR18650B the other day. One of them showed up like this, the voltage curve looks like a hack saw. I was thinking maybe it´s the protection electronics in the battery and removed it, but it´s still the same as before. Someone seen this before, kaputt?



Is it specific to particular slot, or cell?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can anyone estimate the shipment times when the package is being delivered to the US? I see a tracking number but, says no events. So i have no clue where it is at the moment.


----------



## hey_tommy

-Archie- said:


> Is it specific to particular slot, or cell?



Yeah, what he said. Swap cells in slots 3 & 4, retest and report please.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Can anyone estimate the shipment times when the package is being delivered to the US? I see a tracking number but, says no events. So i have no clue where it is at the moment.


Mine said "no events" as well, even after it was delivered.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Can anyone estimate the shipment times when the package is being delivered to the US? I see a tracking number but, says no events. So i have no clue where it is at the moment.



Shipping time to the US will probably be 10 to 14 days. Try the following link with your tracking number. 

http://www.hongkongpost.hk/en/mail_tracking/


----------



## kreisl

maukka said:


> I had the same problem in the beginning, reported it somewhere in this thread. Only two of my many micro-usb cables work with MC3000 so it might be cable related. Others just stop at random times. The shorter the better, I've noticed


I have looked around, Remax seems to have 2 very popular cables for 3.5$ (GB, BG, FT) and FT has a 94cm braided Anker 3ft lookalike for half the price with good reviews, i'll give that a try first.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Shipping time to the US will probably be 10 to 14 days. Try the following link with your tracking number.
> 
> http://www.hongkongpost.hk/en/mail_tracking/


That's good to hear. I don't mind waiting another week. Def beats Gearbest's customer service that's for sure.


----------



## gyzmo2002

MarioJP said:


> That's good to hear. I don't mind waiting another week. Def beats Gearbest's customer service that's for sure.



With GB and PostNL, it took 2 weeks to have something on the tracking. The first message: Item is pre-advice. 2 weeks later: Item has left the for the country destination. 1 week later: Item is arrived to the country destination. 3 days later, I received it but the last message has never been updated to say delivered.

I'm in Montreal and took the free shipping from GB. We don't see many info with PostNL tracking.

I just check the tracking info my TM16GT from Banggood and PostNL, it seems that it will be the same story. Item is pre-advised...it's gonna take 5 weeks as GB with the free shipping, I think.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Wrong thread, sorry.


----------



## MarioJP

gyzmo2002 said:


> With GB and PostNL, it took 2 weeks to have something on the tracking. The first message: Item is pre-advice. 2 weeks later: Item has left the for the country destination. 1 week later: Item is arrived to the country destination. 3 days later, I received it but the last message has never been updated to say delivered.
> 
> I'm in Montreal and took the free shipping from GB. We don't see many info with PostNL tracking.
> 
> I just check the tracking info my TM16GT from Banggood and PostNL, it seems that it will be the same story. Item is pre-advised...it's gonna take 5 weeks as GB with the free shipping, I think.


It just seems hke is more organized and have their stuff together when it comes to shipping. The moment i hit submit order. The order was processed so fast that it was probably shipped out before the shipping confirmation. But i rather that they ship with no confirmation than have all these confirmations and nothing gets done. I don't know that was my experience between gb and hke.


----------



## Zanders

-Archie- said:


> Is it specific to particular slot, or cell?


It´s just that cell with same results in different slots. I think I tried it at least 4 times, thats why I took the protection circuit away but the results stays. The cell is not so much used, maybe charged 10-15 times or so. Last time I did a CDC it looks better but falls and rise rapidly in the top as usual. I would like to try to refresh it but do not know if there is any danger involved when it look like this in the graph.



kreisl said:


> Never seen dis before. Could be due to the slider making poor contact with the rail. Afaik Sky puts some grease on the rail, which is imho unnecessary. So first thing what i did when i got my unit: i opened up the charger carefully, tempered with the installation of the ventilation fan ggg, did a Mr Proper Q-Tip cleaning job of the already clean PCB, checked the general assembly (enough thermal paste on all temp sensors?), and cleaned the conductive(?) grease completely off the rails, also degreased and cleaned the sliders and noticed that they had some sharp (oops) sliding edges which i then rounded off with sandpaper or a lil file. I wouldn't call it modding but maintenance.
> 
> Do new owners need to perform maintenance on a freshly manufactured charger? No, of course not. (And it is not easy as popcorn to re-assemble the unit, the sliders and springs are a challenge hh.) But i wanted to check the assembly anyway, so fumbling with rails and sliders came _todo natural_
> 
> May your unit requires such maintenance. It's the first thing i would try.
> 
> And if you don't want to open the charger, you could try to clean the rails with a Q-tip (+alcohol) as best as you can. Also let us know the internal resistance measurement in SOV.


I will open it up soon, but I can´t get enough of charging for the moment, I really like this one. 
When the cell is ice cold 127mohm, have it outside in a plastic bag. The other ones (same) I have here is 102mohm and 109mohm warm.


----------



## kreisl

Zanders said:


> It´s just that cell with same results in different slots.



So you tested this cell in different slots and always got the jagged voltage line.
And when you tested other batteries in all 4 slots, there was nothing like that.

oic

Then i will come to the conclusion that it has something to do with your battery, not with the charger.
And then you don't need to perform maintenance inside the charger.

(…)

I am buying now a new mc3k USB data cable from Fasttech. Braided Anker lookalike. (EDIT: order placed. yay)


----------



## -Archie-

Zanders said:


> It´s just that cell with same results in different slots.


Hmm, I've seen such things before: on Panasonic with poorly soldered protection PCB, and on cheap Chinese no-name unprotected cell. For the latter, it was obviously caused by internal connectivity problems...


----------



## Zanders

-Archie- said:


> Hmm, I've seen such things before: on Panasonic with poorly soldered protection PCB, and on cheap Chinese no-name unprotected cell. For the latter, it was obviously caused by internal connectivity problems...


It´s this cell from Banggood. Panasonic NCR 18650B.


----------



## gyzmo2002

-Archie- said:


> Hmm, I've seen such things before: on Panasonic with poorly soldered protection PCB, and on cheap Chinese no-name unprotected cell. For the latter, it was obviously caused by internal connectivity problems...



Yes, happened 1 time with ncr18650b protected after droppind the cell on the floor. This cell did my flashlight flickered and the charger did not want to charge it. I had removed the wrapping to see that the PCB connection was loose. I removed it and my cell worked correctly then.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Zanders said:


> It´s this cell from Banggood. http://www.banggood.com/2PCS-NCR-18...ted-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-p-90990.html



Same cells as mine. The button top is not soldered on the PCB. Just a plastic ring with glue keeps it in place. These cells don't like to be "molested"....My Soshine ncr18650b are well builded but cost more.


----------



## Zanders

kreisl said:


> So you tested this cell in different slots and always got the jagged voltage line.
> And when you tested other batteries in all 4 slots, there was nothing like that.
> 
> oic
> 
> Then i will come to the conclusion that it has something to do with your battery, not with the charger.
> And then you don't need to perform maintenance inside the charger.
> 
> (…)
> 
> I am buying now a new mc3k USB data cable from Fasttech. Braided Anker lookalike. (EDIT: order placed. yay)


Nice cable  

I have an old 1m long 90 degres SonyEricsson cable to the charger and no problem yet.







Ordered this one today to get a little longer, don´t know if it works.
https://www.fasttech.com/p/1828203
Btw, how do you get a text over the link?


----------



## tjh

Zanders said:


> Btw, how do you get a text over the link?



Write the words you want to make the link in your text box.

Then, highlight the words you want and click the global icon with a oo symbol above in the editor.

Paste the URL you want to link to there.

Tada.


----------



## Zanders

tjh said:


> Write the words you want to make the link in your text box.
> 
> Then, highlight the words you want and click the global icon with a oo symbol above in the editor.
> 
> Paste the URL you want to link to there.
> 
> Tada.


Testing 
It works, thanks!


----------



## gyzmo2002

tjh said:


> Write the words you want to make the link in your text box.
> 
> Then, highlight the words you want and click the global icon with a oo symbol above in the editor.
> 
> Paste the URL you want to link to there.
> 
> Tada.



This option would be nice in the CPF application for iOS.


----------



## tjh

(Am I the only person too scared to remove the little bit of plastic protecting the screen?)


----------



## kreisl

( i leave it on my screen )


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> ( i leave it on my screen )



You played inside the charger with drill, soldering iron, but leave the protective screen on....paradoxal. You must have more than 1 unit...one for weekend[emoji13]


----------



## sector9

gyzmo2002 said:


> With GB and PostNL, it took 2 weeks to have something on the tracking. The first message: Item is pre-advice. 2 weeks later: Item has left the for the country destination. 1 week later: Item is arrived to the country destination. 3 days later, I received it but the last message has never been updated to say delivered.
> 
> I'm in Montreal and took the free shipping from GB. We don't see many info with PostNL tracking.
> 
> I just check the tracking info my TM16GT from Banggood and PostNL, it seems that it will be the same story. Item is pre-advised...it's gonna take 5 weeks as GB with the free shipping, I think.


I was able to get more info by going to 17track.net once my package was in the US. Maybe you can get more info after your package arrives in the country destination too


----------



## gyzmo2002

sector9 said:


> I was able to get more info by going to 17track.net once my package was in the US. Maybe you can get more info after your package arrives in the country destination too



I put it on file. For now, there is the same info but I will check in some days. Thank you.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yay. Just received the 4x 18650 power bank. Now is needed is the panasonic 18650 cells, and of course the charger 😊


----------



## megawolf

tjh said:


> (Am I the only person too scared to remove the little bit of plastic protecting the screen?)



I didn't remove it but the bubbles were bothering me, so I had a piece of screen protector (for ipad) now I have no bubbles and it's protected :laughing:


----------



## Andrey

tjh said:


> (Am I the only person too scared to remove the little bit of plastic protecting the screen?)



Totally hate those protective films! :green: They make displays and shiny surfaces look blurry. Get even uglier with time.
The first thing I do after receiving a piece of new equipment is getting rid of these things. Even whenever I see them on somebody else's gadgets, I ask for permission to take them off.


----------



## turnipfarmer

I'm trying to find this charger in the UK, can't find it in stock anywhere, anyone know where I can get it here in the UK?


----------



## gyzmo2002

turnipfarmer said:


> I'm trying to find this charger in the UK, can't find it in stock anywhere, anyone know where I can get it here in the UK?



There are only two suppliers that could sell this charger:

http://hkequipment.net/

http://www.gearbest.com/mc3000-_gear/


----------



## tjh

gyzmo2002 said:


> There are only two suppliers that could sell this charger:
> 
> http://hkequipment.net/
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/mc3000-_gear/


And gearbest are $5USD cheaper, and have 2,000 times more complaints against them. Go with HKE (I'm in New Zealand and mine arrived 4 days after it shipped)


----------



## kreisl

Andrey said:


> protective films!


i have some leftovers from my books, protective adhesive transparent films for books. Not as great as the original clear film but good enough fwiw. i also like to keep the original protective film on the display of my DMM. display gets easily scratched by the sharp points of the probes.

EDIT: I've ordered another USB cable, seems to be version 2 of the 2.4A full speed data line model. I am impressed enough by their vids. I'll report about the quality.


----------



## Rapster

turnipfarmer said:


> I'm trying to find this charger in the UK, can't find it in stock anywhere, anyone know where I can get it here in the UK?



Turnip, I'm in the UK (just South of Birmingham) and like you also tried to find the MC3000 in the UK - none found.

As others have pointed out; go with HKE. I purchased from HKE on Thursday, it was despatched on Friday and I got it on the following Tuesday morning. That was using free delivery included with the MC3000. That's 5 days, including a weekend - cool! Yes, you'll pay $6 more with HKE, but you'll have the peace of mind in dealing with a very good seller/company. Super easy to contact are HKE and they reply rather quickly!

Do it, you won't regret it...


----------



## Rapster

kreisl said:


> Hello Rapster,
> 
> welcome on the forum and to the fun with chargers!
> I had early versions of BT-C3100, it is a likable product.
> But to be honest i like the MC3000 more.



I had my BT-C3100 for the whole day before I ordered the MC3000 that evening!

I wish I hadn't purchased the BT-C3100 and gone with my original intention of buying the MC3000. Oh well, suppose I'll just have to find someone willing to buy a few hours old BT-C3100 for a nice price.

And thanks for the welcome! 



kreisl said:


> EDIT: oops, PCLS stopped logging after 8 minutes. PCLS didn't freeze, it's more like that the device stopped sending USB data, closed the data line connection or so. I dunno. Rarely happens. Maybe the fault is my cable? I'll try a different USB cable now. argh, no other cable works.
> EDIT2: oops again, PCLS stopped logging, this time the slots at different (yet similar) times. so weird. this phenomenon is either due to device, cable, or PCLS. My guess that it's due to PCLS. i'll log with DEX from now on, just for testing this bug.



This sounds very much like a cable error.


----------



## tjh

*Feature Requests for PCLS*

Even though some other people on here don't think the Windows Software is useful, I think it's really good. It saves having to push a lot of buttons on the charger (saving wear and tear!) and of course gives lovely colourful graphs that you can save and print out and, well, I'm not sure what else to do with them but they're lovely.

But it's a very incomplete bit of software in my opinion. This is my list of features I think need to implemented and bugs/issues I have encountered. I hope SkyRC will have a look at them and give the ideas and comments some thought.

*Bugs/Issues:
*

Items in the Settings should be given the same name as the Charger/Manual. Otherwise it's a bit confusing sometimes.
Delta-V isn't adjustable past 3mv. It should be able to go to 0 (the charger supports this)
Cut-Off Voltage isn't adjustable below 1.50v (the charger supports this). To save my cells (delta-v = heat!) sometimes it's nice to finish at 1.48v and then top off gently (Same as C9000)
Settings for a LI-ION charge should be greyed out/removed when you have NI-MH selected (and vis-versa)
The Window Interface isn't resizeable at all. This has been reported a number of times already.
The CSV data sometimes is saved with ;;;;;;;'s where numbers should be.
Sometimes it stops logging for no reason. This has been discussed, hard to reproduce.
The image is saved as a BMP (why?) with the colours for the text terrible. Should be a png.

*Feature Requests:
*

The ability to copy the program in 1 slot to the other 3 slots easily. It's a pain to ensure all 4 slots are setup exactly the same.
Remove the "OK" confirmation once settings are sent. Just report an error if it doesn't work.
The ability to save all slots, or an individual slot, to a file/database so it can be shared/imported etc. Ideally in an easy to edit format (plain text file)
Ability to show battery IR (either as a graph, or just as a figure) - this is already exported via USB as DEX can graph it.
Ability to always show the *>>* (detail) in the settings page. i.e. "Dummy Mode" and "Advanced Mode" for the software. It's annoying to have to click *>>* all the time.
Ability to start/stop individual slots.
Ability to program slots not currently running a program.
The ability for PCLS to check for updates to itself (maybe this exists already)

With a powerful GUI where you can share your programs, I think a lot more people would be attracted to the charger. Also any investment in this software should hopefully be able to be used when a "better" charger is developed. Not that there could ever be a better one ;-)

Thanks!
Tim


----------



## sector9

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

Haven't seen this posted but SkyRC did finally get FCC certification (granted Jan 4th 2016). Of course several sellers were shipping to the US before that...

Of interest to those who do not have the charger yet (or those who like electronic copies of such things) is that the FCC filing has a PDF manual (this one is a minor update from the previous electronic copy floating around this thread, which was noticed to have at least one improvement made prior to printing).


----------



## Zanders

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



tjh said:


> Even though some other people on here don't think the Windows Software is useful, I think it's really good. It saves having to push a lot of buttons on the charger (saving wear and tear!) and of course gives lovely colourful graphs that you can save and print out and, well, I'm not sure what else to do with them but they're lovely.
> 
> But it's a very incomplete bit of software in my opinion. This is my list of features I think need to implemented and bugs/issues I have encountered. I hope SkyRC will have a look at them and give the ideas and comments some thought.
> 
> *Bugs/Issues:
> *
> 
> Items in the Settings should be given the same name as the Charger/Manual. Otherwise it's a bit confusing sometimes.
> Delta-V isn't adjustable past 3mv. It should be able to go to 0 (the charger supports this)
> Cut-Off Voltage isn't adjustable below 1.50v (the charger supports this). To save my cells (delta-v = heat!) sometimes it's nice to finish at 1.48v and then top off gently (Same as C9000)
> Settings for a LI-ION charge should be greyed out/removed when you have NI-MH selected (and vis-versa)
> The Window Interface isn't resizeable at all. This has been reported a number of times already.
> The CSV data sometimes is saved with ;;;;;;;'s where numbers should be.
> Sometimes it stops logging for no reason. This has been discussed, hard to reproduce.
> The image is saved as a BMP (why?) with the colours for the text terrible. Should be a png.
> 
> *Feature Requests:
> *
> 
> The ability to copy the program in 1 slot to the other 3 slots easily. It's a pain to ensure all 4 slots are setup exactly the same.
> Remove the "OK" confirmation once settings are sent. Just report an error if it doesn't work.
> The ability to save all slots, or an individual slot, to a file/database so it can be shared/imported etc. Ideally in an easy to edit format (plain text file)
> Ability to show battery IR (either as a graph, or just as a figure) - this is already exported via USB as DEX can graph it.
> Ability to always show the *>>* (detail) in the settings page. i.e. "Dummy Mode" and "Advanced Mode" for the software. It's annoying to have to click *>>* all the time.
> Ability to start/stop individual slots.
> Ability to program slots not currently running a program.
> The ability for PCLS to check for updates to itself (maybe this exists already)
> 
> With a powerful GUI where you can share your programs, I think a lot more people would be attracted to the charger. Also any investment in this software should hopefully be able to be used when a "better" charger is developed. Not that there could ever be a better one ;-)
> 
> Thanks!
> Tim


Agree, good writeup!
Sqerrel should copy that to the first page.
I only use it to see the graph wich is good, except it´s to small on my screen, the rest is pretty usless as it is now.
It would be nice if there was a settings menu for the program itself (like the others) to adjust things like allow screen saver, change colors and all the other things that use to be there, not only for the charge settings. Time will tell!


----------



## turnipfarmer

Rapster said:


> Turnip, I'm in the UK (just South of Birmingham) and like you also tried to find the MC3000 in the UK - none found.
> 
> As others have pointed out; go with HKE. I purchased from HKE on Thursday, it was despatched on Friday and I got it on the following Tuesday morning. That was using free delivery included with the MC3000. That's 5 days, including a weekend - cool! Yes, you'll pay $6 more with HKE, but you'll have the peace of mind in dealing with a very good seller/company. Super easy to contact are HKE and they reply rather quickly!
> 
> Do it, you won't regret it...



Cheers buddy, will have a look today. That's well quick delivery.


----------



## Zanders

gyzmo2002 said:


> A refresh C>D>C: To be more accurate, I should have done this test from 4.20V to 2.50V with terminaison 65ma and 0.2C(670ma) accordind to the specs of the ncr18650b.
> 
> I did it from 4.22v-2.80v with a terminaison 50ma at 1A charge-discharge.
> 
> I wanted to compare the results of the Opus 3100 that are too high than the rated capacity of the cell.
> 
> Charged capacity:
> http://s11.postimg.org/ojjl9c9wz/image.png
> 
> Discharged capacity:
> http://s18.postimg.org/wfzif8f89/image.jpg
> 
> Near the same results between the charged and the discharged capacity.
> 
> @Kreisl: for future update in iOS, we should have the charged and discharged capacity instead of just the charged.



What is your resting voltage after 12 hours charged with MC3000? My Panasonics are down to 4,16V.
Edit: Never mind, find old notes and it seams normal. I am spoiled with my high drains who keeps their high voltage longer.


----------



## Ovi_73

JorisFRST said:


> Ordered December 17th with GB, still not sent out, opened paypal dispute as they only want to refund with "store credit".
> So be warned, GB might not be where you want to go for the sake of 5$.
> 
> Ordering with HK now.



Same here in NL. I send GB e message via e-mail and ask them to refund my money back to my paypal account. Same time I opened via paypal a dispute. Next day GB had refund my money back to my paypal. I also ask why GB couldn't deliver the MC3000 charger. There answer was that there was a supplier's issue (GB: Unfortunately, we are very sorry to inform you that the item cannot be 
sold anymore on our website due to supplier's issues ). Then I sen da e-mail to SkyRC, and this is what the told me: 

A customer support staff member from SKYRC has replied to your support request, #30131 with the following response:

Hello,

Due to unforeseen materials issue, MC3000 is still under production and not deliver to gearbest yet.
Thank you so much for your patience on MC3000.

Regards,


and:

A customer support staff member from SKYRC has replied to your support request, #30131 with the following response:

Hello,

There will be mass production finished end of this month.

Regards,


I now order the MC3000 by hkt. Any one had issue with HKT?


----------



## gsxer

I have been watching this thread sense day one. Going buy some of the trouble some people are having I will wait till I can get it from Amazon if that ever happens. I have the NC 2500 now and am not to happy with it. It's got a very nosy fan and the bluetooth maybe only works half the time other then that it is a good charger.


----------



## -Archie-

Ovi_73 said:


> Then I sen da e-mail to SkyRC, and this is what the told me: A customer support staff member from SKYRC has replied to your support request,


 What address you've used for that request? My inquiry for unlocking RAM mode sent to [email protected] is still unanswered, hence the question...


----------



## billcushman

gyzmo2002 said:


> A refresh C>D>C: To be more accurate, I should have done this test from 4.20V to 2.50V with terminaison 65ma and 0.2C(670ma) accordind to the specs of the ncr18650b.
> 
> I did it from 4.22v-2.80v with a terminaison 50ma at 1A charge-discharge.
> 
> I wanted to compare the results of the Opus 3100 that are too high than the rated capacity of the cell.
> 
> Charged capacity:
> http://s11.postimg.org/ojjl9c9wz/image.png
> 
> Discharged capacity:
> http://s18.postimg.org/wfzif8f89/image.jpg
> 
> Near the same results between the charged and the discharged capacity.



Charge and Discharge capacity on good Li-Ion cells are alike within ±1%. See my post #1850 on page 62.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> What address you've used for that request? My inquiry for unlocking RAM mode sent to [email protected] is still unanswered, hence the question...





Interesting, why include ram support if its locked.? Here i thought that technology died with renewal reusable battery.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Interesting, why include ram support if its locked.? Here i thought that technology died with renewal reusable battery.


I guess because it's hard to detect it different to an NIMH, but because it uses a different charging algorithm it could melt cells.

That'd be my guess, it's not based on fact.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I guess because it's hard to detect it different to an NIMH, but because it uses a different charging algorithm it could melt cells.
> 
> That'd be my guess, it's not based on fact.



No, technically it isn't a problem: cheap 'combo' MiMH/RAM chargers do it just fine. IMHO, all this story with selling of partially-locked charger is beyond logic, but maybe they have some reasons to behave like that...


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> No, technically it isn't a problem: cheap 'combo' MiMH/RAM chargers do it just fine. IMHO, all this story with selling of partially-locked charger is beyond logic, but maybe they have some reasons to behave like that...


I am surprise to see such 90's tech to be included at all. I understand why for NiZn. I sure was a sucker for falling for the Renewal hype commercials. Well, at least these cells didn't leak. So there is that..lol.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The MC3000 User Manual has the following statement concerning RAM batteries.

RAM - Rechargeable Alkaline battery, 1.5V nominal voltage. This unpopular battery type was implemented in the firmware from the very beginning but is also permanently hidden in the menus. Menu item made accessible exclusively to verified recent buyers of RAM batteries; send in proof of purchase for more questions.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I am surprise to see such 90's tech to be included at all. I understand why for NiZn. I sure was a sucker for falling for the Renewal hype commercials. Well, at least these cells didn't leak. So there is that..lol.



No surprise to include most rechargeable chemistries in supposedly advanced universal charger, and NiCd aren't younger either BTW. Attempts to reintroduce RAM to the market are still in place, and maybe price/performance ratio will change one day to make them competitive (providing the quality will be maintained, of course). Remember century-long story of NiZn commercialization? 

What actually surprises me in MC3000 is, whether someone at SkyRC actually thinks Eneloop is a separate chemistry, not trademark...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


>



now this is getting some fun here. 

that's exactly what the product is to convey, and without such spirit the product would not have went thru to where it's at today.

there are _some _errors in the manual, especially after the forthcoming release of firmware v1.04. so maybe i'll suggest that they should delete _some _section in the v1.1 manual so that questions about the deleted section can't be raised because it's gone by then, duh 

after that, what shall we kill next in the product? the spirit? the dino? or will you ever be satisfied? 

Try to enyoj the product fwiw man. I am grateful for what is there, and looking forward to the new FW version.

Meanwhile I have ordered a 4-pack of NiZn batteries, they're on temp sale at GB. It is among the advertised chemistries, website, retail box, officially supported. RAM? Never heard of it, never tested it. Not listed on the sky website, not on the mc3k retail box. Only in a side note in the v1.0 manual, which basically disapproves and shuns that chemistry/proprietary battery technology by a failed Canadian company.
That oversight can be fixed in v1.1 manual, then it's gone:nana:


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> after that, what shall we kill next in the product? the spirit? the dino? or will you ever be satisfied?
> 
> Try to enyoj the product fwiw, guys. I am grateful for what is there, and looking forward to the new FW version.



Not sure who this is aimed at, but my post was merely trying to be helpful and suggestive of nice things to see.

Not read as a complaint.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The winging about trivia here ignores the great features and fun value of this charger. I like it if RAM is included - leads me to want to experiment with it and find out more about RAM (even if it is from a "failed Canadian company"). If including RAM support had some deleterious effect on something else major, then there would be sense in getting rid of it but if not (and it is not), then why not leave it in. More "joyful" ness!

Even with the (trivial) issues identified and which kreisl is getting fixed in the next FW, this is a great charger with many more features than anything else around. And even with all those great features which necessarily make this a (relatively) complicated piece of engineering, this product works better 'out of the box' than many other much simpler projects.






kreisl said:


> now this is getting some fun here.
> 
> that's exactly what the product is to convey, and without such spirit the product would not have went thru to where it's at today.
> 
> there are _some _errors in the manual, especially after the forthcoming release of firmware v1.04. so maybe i'll suggest that they should delete _some _section in the v1.1 manual so that questions about the deleted section can't be raised because it's gone by then, duh
> 
> after that, what shall we kill next in the product? the spirit? the dino? or will you ever be satisfied?
> 
> Try to enyoj the product fwiw man. I am grateful for what is there, and looking forward to the new FW version.
> 
> Meanwhile I have ordered a 4-pack of NiZn batteries, they're on temp sale at GB. It is among the advertised chemistries, website, retail box, officially supported. RAM? Never heard of it, never tested it. Not listed on the sky website, not on the mc3k retail box. Only in a side note in the v1.0 manual, which basically disapproves and shuns that chemistry/proprietary battery technology by a failed Canadian company.
> That oversight can be fixed in v1.1 manual, then it's gone:nana:


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> now this is getting some fun here.
> 
> that's exactly what the product is to convey, and without such spirit the product would not have went thru to where it's at today.


Sure!



> after that, what shall we kill next in the product? the spirit? the dino?


Eneloop "chemistry", perhaps?



> Try to enyoj the product fwiw man.


Life is wonderful, and there's a plenty of things to enjoy. I'd better use the charger for charging, not for enjoyment... 



> I am grateful for what is there, and looking forward to the new FW version.


Me, too.



> RAM? Never heard of it, never tested it.


Now you have a chance then! 



> Not listed on the sky website, not on the mc3k retail box. Only in a side note in the v1.0 manual, which basically disapproves and shuns that chemistry/proprietary battery technology by a failed Canadian company.


Advantages of particular chemistry or business success of some company is irrelevant here: we're talking about MC3000 functionality, isn't it? You always can find yet another failed Canadian company and use its history as "a reason" to block LiIon mode and ask the customers to prove if they actually have lithium batteries - but who will benefit from that action?

RAM support is listed everywhere: in the MC3000 own LCD screen menu, in the manual, in MC3000 software: that's enough. Too late to deny its existence.

Side note: I think MC3000 is a fine device, but it does have some flaws in software, firmware and hardware. If manufacturer wants to improve it, and fix the problems found - that's great! Taking any negative feedback as a 'personal offense' is a wrong way to refine the product IMHO.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> in MC3000 software


Not true, or can you take a screenshot?

( squirrel not offended )


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just a quick question. I went to the Sky website to download the software so as that I could do firmware updates etc, but my Windows 8.1 computer asked me what App I wanted to use - I did not have the required one installed. It told me tio visit the Windows App Store (not used that before) so was wondering which App people here are using - I don't want to install the wrong one! Thanks.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Not true, or can you take a screenshot?


I think I've seen it browsing MC3000_Monitor.exe in hex editor; will re-check later. Edited my message to mark out that part currently. Any questions about two other places I've mentioned?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> I think I've seen it browsing MC3000_Monitor.exe


nice try. not there.
:nana:


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Minimoog said:


> Just a quick question. I went to the Sky website to download the software so as that I could do firmware updates etc, but my Windows 8.1 computer asked me what App I wanted to use - I did not have the required one installed. It told me tio visit the Windows App Store (not used that before) so was wondering which Ap people here are using - I don't want to install the wrong one! Thanks.



SkyRC provides the application in the archived/compressed form. You'll need to use any compatible decompression utility to unpack it first, extracting the executable. Try WinRAR: http://www.rarlab.com/


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> SkyRC provides the application in the archived/compressed form. You'll need to use any compatible decompression utility to unpack it first, extracting the executable. Try WinRAR: http://www.rarlab.com/



Thanks Archie - that makes perfect sense.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

How exactly does the "Auto" function on the backlight work? The function is really poorly described in the manual. 

I currently have it set to always on. But it would be nice if when nothing was in the cradle, it would turn the backlight off. But if anything was in the cradle either charging, discharging or done with its operation, it would stay on until you emptied the cradles. 

I don't want it staying on while nothing is inserted and I don't want to unplug it to turn it off when I have it set to always on. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> How exactly does the "Auto" function on the backlight work? The function is really poorly described in the manual.
> 
> I currently have it set to always on. But it would be nice if when nothing was in the cradle, it would turn the backlight off. But if anything was in the cradle either charging, discharging or done with its operation, it would stay on until you emptied the cradles.
> 
> I don't want it staying on while nothing is inserted and I don't want to unplug it to turn it off when I have it set to always on.
> 
> Thoughts?


Just press any button once and it will lit up without doing nothing else for the meantime. There was on the wishlist for the new firmware that it should lit up when a battery is inserted. Don´t know if there is any sensors in the slider or if they can go for the voltage change or something, time will tell.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> The function is really poorly described in the manual.


i think the AUTO isn't fixed in its function and the manual 1.0 can't be too specific about the parameters of an option ("option" is called what's on the left, here: DISPLAY, "parameter" is called what's on the right, here: OFF|ALWAYS ON|AUTO|1min|3min|…) as it is being improved by clever user feedback 

i do expect changes of its functionality in v1.04 firmware, we'll see


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The charger has arrived!😊 Came in a nice packaging with a sticker on it that says Fragile on it too.


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> The charger has arrived!😊 Came in a nice packaging with a sticker on it that says Fragile on it too.



As did mine, with 'Fragile' sticker, I mean. I've got to say I was impressed with the way it was packaged for transport by HKE.

Now what are you waiting for? I'm sure you have something that needs charging/discharging!


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> Eneloop "chemistry", perhaps?



From the user manual:
Eneloop: Not really a battery type but a brand name. Market leading professional grade NiMH-based low self-discharge industrial standard superior battery product originally made in Japan bySanyo or FDK, now by Panasonic and also in China. The charging algorithm is the same as forNiMH but some options in SPV have been adapted for more convenient presets. Can be cycled1800-2100 times according to claims in ads. 


They never said is a "chemistry"


----------



## sector9

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



megawolf said:


> From the user manual:
> Eneloop: Not really a battery type but a brand name. Market leading professional grade NiMH-based low self-discharge industrial standard superior battery product originally made in Japan bySanyo or FDK, now by Panasonic and also in China. The charging algorithm is the same as forNiMH but some options in SPV have been adapted for more convenient presets. Can be cycled1800-2100 times according to claims in ads.
> 
> They never said is a "chemistry"





How about we refer to the SkyRC website and count to 7 chemistries: 

NiMH
NiZn
NiCd
Lithium ion
LiFePO4
Lilo4.35
????


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sector9 said:


> How about we refer to the SkyRC website and count to 7 chemistries:
> 
> NiMH
> NiZn
> NiCd
> Lithium ion
> LiFePO4
> Lilo4.35
> ????



RAM? Maybe?


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> The charger has arrived! Came in a nice packaging with a sticker on it that says Fragile on it too.



That was quick. Have fun with it!


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> That was quick. Have fun with it!



Very impressed!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## B-2Admirer

-Archie- said:


> What address you've used for that request? My inquiry for unlocking RAM mode sent to [email protected] is still unanswered, hence the question...


Where have you made your recent purchase of RAM cells? For the past year I have not seen them for sale without a dedicated charger (and therefore for a reasonable price).


----------



## samgab

Ovi_73 said:


> Same here in NL. I send GB e message via e-mail and ask them to refund my money back to my paypal account. Same time I opened via paypal a dispute. Next day GB had refund my money back to my paypal. I also ask why GB couldn't deliver the MC3000 charger. There answer was that there was a supplier's issue (GB: Unfortunately, we are very sorry to inform you that the item cannot be
> sold anymore on our website due to supplier's issues ). Then I sen da e-mail to SkyRC, and this is what the told me:
> 
> A customer support staff member from SKYRC has replied to your support request, #30131 with the following response:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Due to unforeseen materials issue, MC3000 is still under production and not deliver to gearbest yet.
> Thank you so much for your patience on MC3000.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> A customer support staff member from SKYRC has replied to your support request, #30131 with the following response:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> There will be mass production finished end of this month.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> I now order the MC3000 by hkt. Any one had issue with HKT?



I have now asked GB to cancel my order and refund to paypal (not a store credit as they offered). 
I ordered from GB on Jan 7, when they were showing the AU plug version in stock, and paid extra for expedited shipping. When they hadn't shipped after a week or so I raised a query and they promised it would be shipped by Jan 20. Now it's Jan 24 and they still haven't shipped, so I've decided to cancel the order from them and give HKE a try, as I've seen much better feedback on here regarding them...


----------



## gyzmo2002

samgab said:


> I have now asked GB to cancel my order and refund to paypal (not a store credit as they offered).
> I ordered from GB on Jan 7, when they were showing the AU plug version in stock, and paid extra for expedited shipping. When they hadn't shipped after a week or so I raised a query and they promised it would be shipped by Jan 20. Now it's Jan 24 and they still haven't shipped, so I've decided to cancel the order from them and give HKE a try, as I've seen much better feedback on here regarding them...



I don't think it was a good idea to cancel from GB. Without cancelling, You have the chance that they will ship it soon. With cancel, I think it will be long to have your full refund . A dispute could be long. With all that waiting time, the charger will be probably shipped. You could order now from HKE without having you refund but you could receive 2 chargers, one from each seller. Good luck.


----------



## billcushman

I ran a retest on some Maha Imedion LSD NiMH C-cells. The MC3000 was in Refresh mode, charge at 2A, both rests at 30 min, and discharge at 500mA. At completion the MC3000 reported capacity of 4379mAh and energy of 6.86Wh. The values during the rest after discharge were capacity 4379mAh and energy of -5.36Wh. I wish the discharge energy was also reported after completion. It is useful to divide the discharge energy by the discharge capacity to get the average discharge voltage. In this case it is 5.36Wh ÷ 4.379Ah = 1.224DCV. The same calculation easily verifies that the energy reported after completion is not the discharge energy. That result is 6.86Wh ÷ 4.379Ah = 1.567DCV. I don't know if the energy reported at completion is the result of one or both charges. In this test the first charge capacity was 595mAh and energy of 0.90Wh.


----------



## billcushman

The MC3000 User Manual is now posted on the SkyRC web site. It would be very helpful if they would post a paginated copy of the manual. http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=219


----------



## samgab

gyzmo2002 said:


> I don't think it was a good idea to cancel from GB. Without cancelling, You have the chance that they will ship it soon. With cancel, I think it will be long to have your full refund . A dispute could be long. With all that waiting time, the charger will be probably shipped. You could order now from HKE without having you refund but you could receive 2 chargers, one from each seller. Good luck.



Hmmm, maybe. But someone else on here said that after raising a Paypal dispute they got their refund the next day. But I noticed that HKE are showing out of stock until Feb anyway... Maybe I'll receive my MC3K before 2017...


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The demand must be high to be out of stock again.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Does the issue for updating the firmware has been resolved? I'm still in 1.02.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Demand is not high, just the production output is limited. The factory produces all kinds of products, did you see their catalog? Plus all the OEM's. Small batches are produced, we're lucky to have got a copy. dino edition 

Firmware 1.04 is being develepod after the bug report list. I don't know if the issue of updating the firmware has been resolved. I guess not.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I will wait FW1.04 in that case. I don't want issue when I'm gonna update it.


----------



## kreisl

billcushman said:


> I wish the discharge energy was also reported after completion. It is useful to divide the discharge energy by the discharge capacity to get the average discharge voltage. In this case it is 5.36Wh ÷ 4.379Ah = 1.224DCV. The same calculation easily verifies that the energy reported after completion is not the discharge energy. That result is 6.86Wh ÷ 4.379Ah = 1.567DCV. I don't know if the energy reported at completion is the result of one or both charges. In this test the first charge capacity was 595mAh and energy of 0.90Wh.


Beautifully caught bugs, thanks!!
I never use REFRESH. Today i tested it and you're right, 2 different bugs in the REFRESH operation mode. Here some demo data which exemplifies the 2 bugs:

Liion REFRESH SOV:
C: 6.20wh 1479mAh
D:-9.22wh 826mAh
C:12.84wh 835mAh (wrong wh counting, _k#21_)
Liion REFRESH Finished SOV, same as TOV: (_k#5_)
L:12.84wh 826mAh (wrong wh reporting, _k#22_)

NiMH REFRESH SOV:
C: 1.04wh 708mAh
D:-1.98wh 1633mAh
C: 2.49wh 1726mAh (correct wh counting)
NiMH REFRESH Finished SOV, same as TOV: (_k#5_)
L: 2.49wh 1633mAh (wrong wh reporting, _k#22_)

Also SOV should report charged capacity/energy too, not only discharged capacity/energy (_k#5_).
The average voltage .. is easily calculated with your formula, nice: 

average voltage[V] = transferred energy[Wh] ÷ transferred charge[Ah]


----------



## Suarez

Android App SkyRC MC 3000 Update !!! Hurray !!!

Just in case somebody (like me, *cough*) missed it - the MC3000 Android app has been updated to v2.5 and is working perfectly here on Nexus 5 now !

I assume it will work on all other Android devices too now which formerly crashed directly after start, v2.5 now is offering some kind of "device-selector"

at the opening screen where it it able to select the device to connect with, the MC3000 is detected as "SimpleBLEPheriphal" followed by the corresponding

MAC adress ;-) After selecting the device, the MC3000 app will connect to the charger and now offers (IMHO) all the functionality from the IOS app.

!!! Great Update !!! Thanks SkyRC and all stuff involved into this "huge step" update !!!

P.S.: Could someone who (luckily) owns two (or more) of this amazing MC3000 chargers please test if both units are selectable after starting the app ?!? Thanks in advance !


----------



## _UPz

Works fine for me too, samsung galaxy s4.


----------



## millguy

Suarez said:


> Android App SkyRC MC 3000 Update !!! Hurray !!!
> 
> Just in case somebody (like me, *cough*) missed it - the MC3000 Android app has been updated to v2.5 and is working perfectly here on Nexus 5 now !
> 
> I assume it will work on all other Android devices too now which formerly crashed directly after start, v2.5 now is offering some kind of "device-selector"
> 
> at the opening screen where it it able to select the device to connect with, the MC3000 is detected as "SimpleBLEPheriphal" followed by the corresponding
> 
> MAC adress ;-) After selecting the device, the MC3000 app will connect to the charger and now offers (IMHO) all the functionality from the IOS app.
> 
> !!! Great Update !!! Thanks SkyRC and all stuff involved into this "huge step" update !!!
> 
> P.S.: Could someone who (luckily) owns two (or more) of this amazing MC3000 chargers please test if both units are selectable after starting the app ?!? Thanks in advance !



Both of mine show up when starting the app, but I have not found any way to switch between them except to exit the app and start it again.


----------



## MarioJP

millguy said:


> Both of mine show up when starting the app, but I have not found any way to switch between them except to exit the app and start it again.



I was wondering how the app handles 2 because i might want a second one. I just got the habbit of 2's, and because i have 8 AA eneloops and 8 AAA eneloops and soon to have four panasonic NCR18650B then i am all set lol. Accessing the charger using the app is a really nice feature[emoji106] [emoji106]


----------



## usrnam

The user's manual can be downloaded from http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product/download&download_id=149

Saved to a file-name "MC3000" without an extension, you need rename the saved file to "MC3000.pdf".

The charger current advertised availability is an EU version. Does the included 100-140 VAC AC/DC adapter have a removable AC input cord/plug that can be replaced with a US version? or an EU to US plug adapter is necessary?

Are there any known problems powering this charger using non OE power supplies or alternate non-regulated 12 volt power sources? 

What size is the DC input male plug? 

One concern I have about this charger is the warranty, service and support is only available from China. If the unit fails you would need to pay for shipping back to the seller or SkyRC located in China. USPS First Class to China is around $23.00 for a small package. There possibly are return shipping fees. Then there is a turn-a-around time which could take from several weeks to possibly months.


----------



## tjh

usrnam said:


> One concern I have about this charger is the warranty, service and support is only available from China. If the unit fails you would need to pay for shipping back to the seller or SkyRC located in China. USPS First Class to China is around $23.00 for a small package. There possibly are return shipping fees. Then there is a turn-a-around time which could take from several weeks to possibly months.



Right, and also don't forget if you want to be paranoid this is a very new device and everyone's might fall apart in 2 months. Or blow up.

It's part of the fun of being an early adopter. That's why we get it at the "Promotional Price", right? 

And fess up - how many readers who bought this charger would be totally stranded if it did blow up? I know I have ~3 other chargers that could step up. This is the best one I have by far, but my world wouldn't be ruined if it did fail and I had to return it.

Maybe I need to focus more on the negatives in life


----------



## Viking

usrnam said:


> The charger current advertised availability is an EU version. Does the included 100-140 VAC AC/DC adapter have a removable AC input cord/plug that can be replaced with a US version?



Yes the cord is removeble.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I like the fact that the mains you are able to get it replaced easily should one need a replacement. Some mainstream chargers (excluding 12v ones) should you need a replacement. Good luck with that.


----------



## usrnam

So the only difference between the plug versions is the cord that plugs into the power supply?

I would need a power cord with this type of plugin connection?







Or


----------



## MarioJP

usrnam said:


> Years ago many items for use around the home were manufactured to last at least 30 years. As an example, I use to have a small mid 50s refrigerator that was still running like when new after 50 years. Whereas modern appliances often fail sometime just after their warranty period.
> 
> Most electronics are following the same trend, where you're required to replace them every so often.



See, i don't worry stuff like that. Being an early adopter has it's risks but so does the rewards. Its like you agreed the moment you hit submit order. Its a game of chance[emoji14]


----------



## usrnam

Yes, a game chance is like a wager. However, I don't like making wagers with electronics and other equipment. I want the electronics and related equipment working when it's needed.


----------



## tjh

usrnam said:


> I have an Opus BT-C3100 that was running normally. While plugging in the power supply I noticed a spark from the DC plug. After plugging in and out a few time to further investigate what was going on the FAN hasn't yet once stopped. I allowed the charger to sit overnight (room temperatures in the 50s deg F.) plugging it in without any batteries installed the FAN continually runs.
> 
> According to the manual the fan is suppose to turn on when internal or battery temperatures reach 40 deg. C (104 deg. F.).
> 
> Fan running all the time doesn't seem to have an effect on the charging, however I'm concerned about the charger being able to read the correct battery temperatures for charging the batteries.
> 
> The DC plug sparking indicates there's something potentially wrong with the charger's DC power input.


Wrong thread?


----------



## usrnam

tjh said:


> Wrong thread?



I moved it to a more relevant thread. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...T-C3100-v2-2&p=4826388&viewfull=1#post4826388


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is there a way to have the charger on a timed trickle charge and stops after the time is up? That way i can have the cells topped off and not overcharge. I like the fact that you can configure trickle charging. 

Thanks.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Is there a way to have the charger on a timed trickle charge and stops after the time is up? That way i can have the cells topped off and not overcharge. I like the fact that you can configure trickle charging.
> 
> Thanks.



When the MC3000 terminates NIMH, it terminates because it detected -dv/dt, that is the drop of voltage of the cell because the cell is full. There is no requirement for a top-off charge. Only chargers that terminate when a particular voltage is reached (v1.48 or so usually) require a top-off charge, because terminating at that voltage means the cell is quite full, but not totally.

So you don't need a top-off charge, your cell doesn't need topping off, it's full.

Anyway, Kreisl posted here how maybe to emulate it (the second bit) - I haven't tested.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> When the MC3000 terminates NIMH, it terminates because it detected -dv/dt, that is the drop of voltage of the cell because the cell is full. There is no requirement for a top-off charge. Only chargers that terminate when a particular voltage is reached (v1.48 or so usually) require a top-off charge, because terminating at that voltage means the cell is quite full, but not totally.
> 
> So you don't need a top-off charge, your cell doesn't need topping off, it's full.
> 
> Anyway, Kreisl posted here how maybe to emulate it (the second bit) - I haven't tested.


Here i thought that the end of charge is to stop the high current from whatever method the charger uses , and trickle charge is to top off if you want full capacity. Unless trickle charge is meant for high self-discharge cells that seems to be fading these days.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Here i thought that the end of charge is to stop the high current and trickle charge is to top it off if you want full capacity. Unless trickle charge is meant for high self-discharge cells that seems to be fading these days.




Top-off is to fill a cell after voltage termination.
Trickle charge is to maintain the cell full, but is not really recommended for NiMH, it was more for NiCd


----------



## diablo266

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just stumbled upon the Hitec X4 Advanced here

Looks pretty similar? Is this basically the same charger?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



diablo266 said:


> I just stumbled upon the Hitec X4 Advanced here
> 
> Looks pretty similar? Is this basically the same charger?



Well, given that it doesn't support Li-Ion etc (in fact it only supports AA and AAA), only has 3 buttons instead of 4 and a fixed LCD whereas the MC3000 draws itself totally (no boxes etc), no port for USB computer control, the answer is a pretty clear "*No!*".

I would say however it's a re-brand of the SkyRC NC2500


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Here i thought that the end of charge is to stop the high current from whatever method the charger uses , and trickle charge is to top off if you want full capacity. Unless trickle charge is meant for high self-discharge cells that seems to be fading these days.



I guess whether a trickle charge is needed or not depends on the charging algorithm.

Hmm... interesting point by tjh about charging of nimh batteries. If using the dv/dt method results in a full cell already then there doesn't seem to be a need for trickle charging. I do notice that when charging nimh batteries in the MC3000, when the charging terminates the cell voltage is often above 1.50V but after some rest it will come down.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> I guess whether a trickle charge is needed or not depends on the charging algorithm.
> 
> Hmm... interesting point by tjh about charging of nimh batteries. If using the dv/dt method results in a full cell already then there doesn't seem to be a need for trickle charging. I do notice that when charging nimh batteries in the MC3000, when the charging terminates the cell voltage is often above 1.50V but after some rest it will come down.



This is the neat thing about this charger though - you could set it to terminate at 1.48v and then trickle charge. You don't _have _to use -dv/dt if you don't want to, you could do a voltage termination and then a trickle charge, as per the link previously posted.

Why you'd want to do this, I don't know. But you have the flexibility with this charger to do it, if you feel it's a better/safer/cell-life-preserving method.


----------



## Suarez

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

(...wow, tjh, that was fast ;-)

Also my opinion, it´s exactly a SkyRC NC2500 in a "rebranded" version. The NC2500 comes without the LiIo functionality and all the other neat stuff
like the "Advanced Mode" in MC3000...

The Hitec X4 (SkyRC NC2500) looks kind of similar, but spoken generally the MC3000 is a completely different charger with all the functionality of the NC2500 still included.




diablo266 said:


> I just stumbled upon the Hitec X4 Advanced here
> 
> Looks pretty similar? Is this basically the same charger?


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Well, given that it doesn't support Li-Ion etc (in fact it only supports AA and AAA), only has 3 buttons instead of 4 and a fixed LCD whereas the MC3000 draws itself totally (no boxes etc), no port for USB computer control, the answer is a pretty clear "*No!*".
> 
> I would say however it's a re-brand of the SkyRC NC2500



Well spotted there!


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> This is the neat thing about this charger though - you could set it to terminate at 1.48v and then trickle charge. You don't _have _to use -dv/dt if you don't want to, you could do a voltage termination and then a trickle charge, as per the link previously posted.
> 
> Why you'd want to do this, I don't know. But you have the flexibility with this charger to do it, if you feel it's a better/safer/cell-life-preserving method.



Indeed, I do like the MC3000 for all the options and functions it provides. Allows you to setup the charger to your own preference.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I am about to have a second one very soon. And this completes my 2's lol HKE is pretty fast service. I thought i would have to wait until Feb but guess not i was told that my unit will arrive on thursday. Wow, what A turbo fast delivery.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

A random share, inspired by a youtube clip i ordered the inexpensive item as accessory. Mine's from FT but it's also available thru DX and BG:





Comes in blister packaging, pseudo retail-ready:





Switch, material, build quality feels okay, adequate i would say. Should serve the purpose well, eliminating the need of plugging/unplugging the mains adapter and eliminating the standby current draw of the connected adapter-charger-system. Also, with this item installed (and in the OFF "0" position), the order of connecting mains cable to wall outlet, and adapter plug to charger input, doesn't matter anymore: you connect the 2 cables of the adapter in any order to mains and charger, then you press the red switch to the ON "1" position. 
( If you didn't get these instructions, lemme show in another youtube clip.  )





Apart from the fake CE symbol, the label says "WWW.gamebox HK" and "5A — 250-". The latter could be a rating, i dunno. 





I noticed that it is easier (less force) to press the switch to OFF "0" position and a bit harder (more force) to press it to ON "1" position. It's just an observation, not a bug, not a feature, lol. Is it a safe product, a safe switch? Well, as mentioned, the CE symbol is faked. And basically you're switching directly a 230V AC mains line. I don't know what kind of sparks and whatnot the switching produces inside and for sure it has no spark mitigation or over-voltage protection inside. Let's assume that it's just a primitive switch, directly operating on your 230V AC mains line. You decide how safe you'd find such a ting. Yes, ting. 

Ting ting! :devil:


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have my MC3000 power supply hidden and use this radio controlled outlet: http://www.nexa.se/vara-produkter/system-nexa/paket/pe3


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My MC3000 had a little episode after i removed a charged 18650 from the 3rd slot:


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Discharging 4x Sanyo GA at 1A with 50mA D.REDUCE and down to 2.7V I'm only getting ~3250mAh from these, is this normal?

Edit: Same test with my Opus 3100 v2.2: ~3450m/mAh. But I read the opus has higher reading than usual.


----------



## gyzmo2002

richardcpf said:


> Discharging 4x Sanyo GA at 1A with 50mA D.REDUCE and down to 2.7V I'm only getting ~3250mAh from these, is this normal?



Rated capacity of 18650GA at 20Celsius is 3300mah discharged at 670ma or 25C 3350mah from 4.20v to 2.50v. Your result seems ok. You could have a bit more capacity if you discharge to 2.50v.

Edit: Forget the Opus....it gives too high results. Higher than the cell rating.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



richardcpf said:


> Discharging 4x Sanyo GA at 1A with 50mA D.REDUCE and down to 2.7V I'm only getting ~3250mAh from these, is this normal?
> 
> Edit: Same test with my Opus 3100 v2.2: ~3450m/mAh. But I read the opus has higher reading than usual.



We can't compare results if everybody uses different discharge conditions lol. Please see my post:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=4819549&viewfull=1#post4819549

And you're always free to refine the calibration of your mc3k, as i had done _before _making that youtube video.

(…)

Yikes, my PCLS again randomly stopped logging data (without freezing or any other hints of crashing) during my latest 2 serious attempts of logging a discharge and a charge curve. Nase voll! :hairpull:

I really need now my brand new premium USB data cables. I got 1 from FT incoming and 1 from GB incoming, will take another 2 weeks until they reach me argh. Looking forward to both new cables. I'll report if the new cables fix my problem with the 'randomly stopped logging data'. The squirrel so frustrated


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My room temp is higher at 26C, discharge rate was higher than manufacturer's 0.2C, target volt was higher, when fully charging the cells I used termination current of 0.15A and the cell rested 2 hours prior to discharge test which made them drop to 4.18V. Had I used a lower termination current a bit more capacity could have been pushed into the cell.

So I guess my readings are correct, unless we test using the exact same condition as the manufacturer the numbers will never match.

BTW I also tested a Samsung 30Q with the same parameters and got 2960mAh, this is probably it being a high dishcarge cell was able to handle 1A better.

its funny how people go crazy about which battery to buy in order to get the maximum capacity possible, paying even $20 PER CELL which I think is ridiculous (bare cells are $8 a piece at most), and they don't realize these manufacturers rating are done in conditions we will never see in real life use. Discharge termination of C/50 is about low-low mode in flashlights which are rarely given importance in runtime tests, and a good percentage of the total capacity is in that <2.9V range.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



romteb said:


> My MC3000 had a little episode after i removed a charged 18650 from the 3rd slot:




It seems that the charger was applying some sort of trickle charge or maybe the "protection reset" feature that was "stuck" and keep providing current pulses.


----------



## richardcpf

I also ordered a couple 12V 40mm fans to install in the back of the unit where the heatsink is located, they will be connected in series and directly to the 15V power supply input port. I tested at 6V and they spun acceptably fast, the reason for this and not wiring them parallel at 15V is that they are quite noisy and I often leave my charger work overnight for discharge tests. If everything goes well I will also replace the tiny stock bottom fan which makes all sorts of weird noises. Anyone know if that one is 12V? Of course all this requires cutting the case, will update with some pictures.

With the stock fan the internal temperature can raise up to 75C while discharging 4 cells at 1A, this is no good for the life of the components.


----------



## HKJ

richardcpf said:


> With the stock fan the internal temperature can raise up to 75C while discharging 4 cells at 1A, this is no good for the life of the components.



The most temperature sensitive components is usual the capacitors and they are rated for 105C.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi everyone

I've been lurking here for about 5 years now.

Thanks to everyone for the great info that's been posted. I've found it quite informative.

Question time 

Can programming parameters be saved to file (pc or android) and then be uploaded to a second MC3000? 
Can the programs be renamed to display on the UI, eg. Instead of 'program 1' can we display "AA dcd 1.25", or even better, someone's name, ie 'PeterD'?
Has anyone attempted to charge 3 aa's in a 1s3p setup in the charger using the quality white D cell adapters available from eBay at about $1/unit and can 4 adapters fit in the charger?
Can the charger be locked so settings and programs are not accidentally changed or lost? 

TIA

Edit. Has anyone saved and uploaded 'ideal' programming parameters for download if possible and if not is there a ready reference available with most common battery types in the one place?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Can programming parameters be saved to file (pc or android) and then be uploaded to a second MC3000?
> Can the programs be renamed to display on the UI, eg. Instead of 'program 1' can we display "AA dcd 1.25", or even better, someone's name, ie 'PeterD'?
> Has anyone attempted to charge 3 aa's in a 1s3p setup in the charger using the quality white D cell adapters available from eBay at about $1/unit and can 4 adapters fit in the charger?
> Can the charger be locked so settings and programs are not accidentally changed or lost?



The answer is no to all your questions, except a squirrel has played with parallel charging of NiMH cells (Usual it is not a good idea, they have to be discharged exactly the same for it to work).


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The answer is no to all your questions, except a squirrel has played with parallel charging of NiMH cells (Usual it is not a good idea, they have to be discharged exactly the same for it to work).



The AA cells will be mounted in the adapter permantly except for occasional checking. They will be discharged in the adapter. Would you think that sufficient or should capacity checking on each cell be undertaken to initially match them and ongoing capacity checking be done say every 50 discharges or 6 months? We are using eneloop pro's.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> The AA cells will be mounted in the adapter permantly except for occasional checking. They will be discharged in the adapter. Would you think that sufficient or should capacity checking on each cell be undertaken to initially match them and ongoing capacity checking be done say every 50 discharges or 6 months? We are using eneloop pro's.



I would expect that to work. To get them in balance it would probably be a good idea to start with a slow charger: 16 hours at C/10. If you start with full batteries, you can reduce the 16 hours significantly.


----------



## sector9

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Edit. Has anyone saved and uploaded 'ideal' programming parameters for download if possible and if not is there a ready reference available with most common battery types in the one place?



Check out the MC3000 manual, page 11, to see some recommended charge and discharge parameters for various chemistries. Manual available in PDF form here http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=219 

The ability to save programs and import/export programs is one of the requested features. No idea if we will get it eventually though. In the meantime, I would be interested in a thread where we manually post our programs for comment/sharing


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> I would expect that to work. To get them in balance it would probably be a good idea to start with a slow charger: 16 hours at C/10. If you start with full batteries, you can reduce the 16 hours significantly.



Individually charged or inserted in the adapter?

Has anyone tested charging termination problems at the C/10 rate in this charger? Terminate on voltage to avoid this?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Individually charged or inserted in the adapter?



In the adapter.



Devon said:


> Has anyone tested charging termination problems at the C/10 rate in this charger? Terminate on voltage to avoid this?



I would not expect the charger to terminate at C/10 and with the above charge it is not supposed to terminate, except on time or capacity.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> In the adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> I would not expect the charger to terminate at C/10 and with the above charge it is not supposed to terminate, except on time or capacity.



Thank you. I have read many of your reviews...great work and most helpful. 

An off topic Q.

Panasonic ncr18650GA....new, all my testing shows them to be of similar voltage (+/-0.01v) when from the same batch. I am yet to test capacity. What is considered a safe "mismatch" in terms of % of capacity to use 3 of them in series drawing at most 3 amps continuous?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

What was the overall final opinion of the thermal design of this charger? Terrible? Average? Good?

I know that Gauss163 thinks it's terrible, HKJ's review mentions it could be better but doesn't really say there's any issues. Kreisl has his on a laptop cooler. richardcpf is installing his own fans!

Is there anything here to be really concerned about? If so, always, or only when discharging 4 x batteries at 1amp?

Thanks!


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> What was the overall final opinion of the thermal design of this charger? Terrible? Average? Good?
> 
> I know that Gauss163 thinks it's terrible, HKJ's review mentions it could be better but doesn't really say there's any issues. Kreisl has his on a laptop cooler. richardcpf is installing his own fans!
> 
> Is there anything here to be really concerned about? If so, always, or only when discharging 4 x batteries at 1amp?



The cooling is not really enough to handle the full discharge power, but due to the thermal safety reduction of current it is not a problem. The charger will limit the heatsink to 85C, that is fairly cool for power electronic, they cold have increased this temperature to avoid current reduction, but that would increase the risk of wearing the capacitors out after a few 1000 hours of discharging.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The cooling is not really enough to handle the full discharge power, but due to the thermal safety reduction of current it is not a problem. The charger will limit the heatsink to 85C, that is fairly cool for power electronic, they cold have increased this temperature to avoid current reduction, but that would increase the risk of wearing the capacitors out after a few 1000 hours of discharging.



Thanks HKJ. You have put my mind at ease.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Kreisl has his on a laptop cooler.


hehe not exactly true 

but i did open up my engineering sample, looked at the assembly, and tampered with the fan installation (only needed: a stanley knife and 1mm thick rubber band). after that mod there is no more current reduction when discharging 4 x LiIon at 1amp because the internal temperature does not reach 85°C (in a standard warm room, that is 20-25°C room temperature) anymore. i've tested it countless times and the result is super nice, no more current reduction.

i actually documented the mod, uploaded photos of it on public image hoster but i won't share until later. point is, i cannot expect owners to open up their expensive device and cut stuff, only to get rid of the current reduction at full discharge load.

i am showing my mod to sky and maybe they'll like it


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can anyone explain why the input voltage is adjustable in setup?


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Tease pic: (work in progress) 










MarioJP said:


> Can anyone explain why the input voltage is adjustable in setup?



I believe it is used to set the low input voltage alarm...


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



romteb said:


> My MC3000 had a little episode after i removed a charged 18650 from the 3rd slot:




I wonder about this when i remove a cell. Why do the readings drops like that?.


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Preliminary shot before the fan gets fixed in place. So after all I decided to wire them directly to the input port with an in-line switch, these are 12V fan but they will receive 15V, I hope they can handle the extra voltage. 

Not sure yet what to use to seal the edges, I have some sugru in hand, a mouldable glue that turns into hard rubber once dry. Don't want to use epoxy because I'm sure these fans will give up sooner or later, they usually only last couple months.... now less because I'm over-driving them.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Damn man. Are you going to be discharging batteries 24/7 or are you going to put wings on it so it can fly?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Dam. That's some crazy cooling.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You may need to bolt it down and keep loose objects at least a metre from it.


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I used to build PCs and I have to admit it kind of disturbs me when I see the system temperature raise... And contrary to how it looks, the fans actually blows into heatsink, which is more efficient than pulling due to how the fins are positioned, if the fins were vertical the fans would've been the other way around, air comes from the top, cools the heatsink and exits... 

I can't remotely recommend this mod to anyone unless they really want to know what PITA means, it took me an hour trying to placing each slider and spring into the correct spot. Also, Initially I was going to use 40mm fans, drill a circular hole on the case and secure them with screws. But gearbest send me wrong items and these are 50mm... I had my dremel so why not.

Two things I noticed that are not so nice in terms of design/manufacture:
1. There are 6 temperature probes, 1 for each slot and 2 in the heatsink, strange thing is the heatsink sensors are not attached in anyway, just held by a blob of thermal paste leaving a ~2mm space in between, I'm going to use thermal epoxy to secure it, this should give a more accurate temp reading. 
2. There are 4 mosfets, one for each slots used for discharge. Only 3 of the mosfets had thermal tape in between, the last one is bare touching the heatsink, not a big deal but not optimal. 

Thermal tape only covers first 3 FETs:





Will update with a video of the new cooling system in action... hope it works!


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



richardcpf said:


> Preliminary shot before the fan gets fixed in place. So after all I decided to wire them directly to the input port with an in-line switch, these are 12V fan but they will receive 15V, I hope they can handle the extra voltage.
> 
> Not sure yet what to use to seal the edges, I have some sugru in hand, a mouldable glue that turns into hard rubber once dry. Don't want to use epoxy because I'm sure these fans will give up sooner or later, they usually only last couple months.... now less because I'm over-driving them.



You can wire the two fans in series, the air flow will be for sure enough and you will prolong the life of the fans and ears


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Series connection of brushless motors is generally not good idea. I'd suggest to use simple voltage regulator like 7809 to feed them...


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

*Turbo-cooling* system is alive!! (I will patent the name :laughing I used a couple small drops of instant glue to temporary fix the fans in place just for a quick test. Also installed a small omtem switch on the bottom of the unit, the fan will only be used for 4x1A Discharge. 






*The setup:* 4x Samsung 30Q, discharge rate 1A, all cells full.

*Testing Method: *Only stock fan working until the temp. reached 80C at 9:00, where I started recording. Room temp 26C.

*Result:* At 81C I turned on the fans and Immediately the temperature started to drop. Because the fans pushes air in, the hot air from the heatsink got into the battery temp sensor and caused it to raise. BUT don't panic yet, this is only a fake reading and it regulated back to normal reading after the air temperature dropped to even levels. At the end of the video you see the battery temp started dropping back. In just one minute the system temperature was dropped from 81C to 57C.



But there's more:*
At 16:28 *battery temperature was back to normal, system temperature was 39C. At this point the stock fan was already off. How ironic isn't it? In 7 minuted the temperature dropped 40C... 






*At 25:57* and on, battery and system temperature dropped a bit more. I checked after 1 hour and got the same numbers. I'm safe to assume 37C is the coolest it can get, 10C above the room temp while burning 16W. not bad I think...


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Good job. Perhaps we are witnessing the version 2 of the MC3000.[emoji106]


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



richardcpf said:


> I'm safe to assume 37C is the coolest it can get, 10C above the room temp while burning 16W. not bad I think...


Yes, indeed: well done! BTW, have you tried to put one of fans in opposite direction, to provide "input-output" air flow? They're too close of course, and part of hot air will be sucked back - but overall performance probably would be increased. Current 37 deg. temp is pretty good, and no need to lower it further, but perhaps with one of fans reversed you'll be able to achieve the same temperature with lower speed/noice level...


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Looks professional, well done.👍


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Has anyone attempted to charge 3 aa's in a 1s3p setup in the charger using the quality white D cell adapters available from eBay at about $1/unit and can 4 adapters fit in the charger?


I have attempted it with new unused FDK/Eneloop AA and charging 12 aa's simultaneously, in *4*_slots_ *×* (1s*3p*)_/slot_ = "1s*12p*", works beautifully since the 3p-adapter balances the 3 aa's on the go. I will show results of my parallel charging tests in future, promised.

Today i am sharing details of the aa adapters themselves. I got mine from Uxcell.com (Dragonmarts Ltd, Hongkong Afaik), an obscure seller which also sells thru various accounts on amazon and ebay. The packages ended up super cheap since every package came with a personalized 5$ OFF coupon. Look for their 5-packs, they cost the same as their 2-packs lmao.

The commercial regular *D size* parallel adapters, 1s*3p*, are 33.0mm wide. As with D size batteries, only *2* of them would fit in the mc3k tray:






However i made four *sub-D size* parallel adapters, also 1s*3p*, which are only 30.0mm wide. With these, *4* of them fit easily in the mc3k tray:






In the following pic, one can see that the D adapter (on the left) is more massive, wider, such that the batteries look seated/buried deeper in the adapter. The sub-D adapter (on the right) is compacter, such that the batteries seem to ride near the adapter surface:






How much wider are four adapters altogether? In the below pic the difference is 4*33mm-4*30mm = 12mm, let's see:






You can't see the 12mm difference? Okay here some animation, that should help lol:






Now you wanna know how i made the sub-D adapters? Well, first let's look at the Uxcell D size adapters. Obviously i bought correctly the *parallel *version, 1s*3p*:






Finally, my sub-D adapters are nothing but commercial regular *3s*1p cylindrical aa adapters (serial aa adapter w/ 4.5V nominal) which i modded to a 1s*3p* configuration (parallel aa adapter w/ 1.5V nominal). While in theory it is logical and easy to understand _how _a 3s1p cylindrical holder should be converted into a 1s3p cylindrical holder, in practice you need some time, patience, and efforts to get the soldering done. I couldn't do it on my own, so my kind neighbor did it for me:






Let me know if you want to see pics of my mc3k loaded with 12 AA's :twothumbs
Or loaded with 16 AAA's


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I've been looking at this charger for a while as it's been mostly "out of stock". Recently US and other plug versions came back in stock at Gearbest.com and Everbuying.net (which appears to be under the same company using different sites).

Everbuying.net currently has a CNY 20 percent sitewide 20 percent (coupon code) discount.

http://www.everbuying.net/product1111478.html 

Plus an additional "Free Shipping" option: Delivery Estimates: 3 - 7 business days to major destinations (does not include processing time).

EB points - $2.20 (received after new registration)
Optional insurance + $2.70

Grand total (with 20 percent discount) = $85.88

The MC3000 manual notes that's it's important to plug in the DC power jack before supplying power to the PSU. Smaller battery chargers aren't built like laptops and automobile battery chargers, where you can randomly connect and reconnect DC power. After reading through some of the past post it appears there are issues with 12 volt chargers DC plug sparking, (feedback from circuits and capacitors).

I like the fan mod.

For PC's and laptops pull ventilation is more commonly used. I would experiment with both to determine which method works better, or possibly modify to have both an inlet and outlet fan(s), as the amount of air flow is important.

Some older PCs I use to own included specific airflow pathways as part of the case. Air ventilation was re-directed by case construction to keep the PC running cooler.


----------



## usrnam

*Alternate Power adapters — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Are there any known issues when using other power adapters with this charger?

In the user manual, under Warning and Safety Precautions:

"Use the original adapter and cord for power supply"

I have several older IBM 16 volt 4.5 amp laptop power supplies using a 5.5mm x 2.1mm dc plug. 

I don't know if the dc barrel plug is the correct size. There are at least two different 5.5mm barrel plugs, one using a slightly larger ground pin than 2.1mm.

I also have some that are dual power : With both AC and 12 volt DC inputs.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yay! Now have the 2nd one all set, and thus completes the 2's!





Thanks skyRC for making this a reality!

[emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]

On a side note. The mains does indeed creates a spark when i plugged it in. Luckily it was on the AC prong and not the barrel connector.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@Kreisl 

I have seen your youtube videos....thank you

We have a heap of the larger commercial adapters 1s3p....yes indeed they are in the 33mm range and well built.

We purchased them for AU $1.20 each Inc postage from China to Australia. The seller sells on ebay and goes by the name of ceninger. 

We may be able to slightly modify these to make them fit in the MC3000 and get the temp sensor to contact the bottom cell. The equipment we use these D cells in won't mind and we need 4 of these for one unit and it gives about 16 to 20 hrs run time. 

Will keep you informed as to how we modify the parallel adapters.

We saw your 4 cell D Size adapters, the black ones, and we don't like those much. The 3 cell will give us sufficient run time as we only need 12hrs minimum.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: Alternate Power adapters — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



usrnam said:


> Are there any known issues when using other power adapters with this charger?
> 
> In the user manual, under Warning and Safety Precautions:
> 
> "Use the original adapter and cord for power supply"
> 
> I have several older IBM 16 volt 4.5 amp laptop power supplies using a 5.5mm x 2.1mm dc plug.



I can't see any reason why not if the power adapter is (switching) regulated and the barrel plug is the correct size. OEM IBM adapters were not inexpensive when brand new, originally built for Laptops costing several of thousands of dollars.

These power supplies use a full bridge rectifier (with diodes and transisters) for regulating AC input that's converted to DC power. Similar in some ways to an alternator that generates it's own AC.

The user manual specifications for input power is between 11 and 18 VDC at a minimum of 60 watts.

Watt to volt/amp computations:

60 Watts minimum input power:

11 Volts = 5.45 amps (2.02 ohms)
12 Volts = 5.0 amps (2.4 ohms)
13 Volts = 4.6 amps (2.8 ohms)
14 Volts = 4.28 amps (3.26 ohms)
15 Volts = 4 amps (3.75 ohms)
16 Volts = 3.75 amps (5.26 ohms)
17 Volts = 3.53 amps (4.82 ohms)
18 Volts = 3.33 amps (5.4 ohms)

72 watts @ 16 Volts = 4.5 amps (3.55 ohms)


----------



## billcushman

*Re: Alternate Power adapters — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Albert, the MC3000 has a 5.5/2.5mm DC power connector.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Yay! Now have the 2nd one all set, and thus completes the 2's!


You are a lucky man.
(Or women. I assume man, forgive me if incorrect)


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> You are a lucky man.
> (Or women. I assume man, forgive me if incorrect)


A man lol.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: Alternate Power adapters — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Albert, the MC3000 has a 5.5/2.5mm DC power connector.



Can't he use a 5.5mm x 2.5mm male to 5.5mm x 2.1mm female DC jack adapter? 

The only difference I can think of is a 5.5mm x 2.5mm adapter cord may use slightly larger pos+ / neg- wires.

I've been thinking of finding another power supply. Here's a non oem for a Toshiba, 75 Watts 5amps / 15 volts.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Adapter-...hash=item1c3fa0ff7c:m:m3QlRQO57cAbzSHOv4KluUA


----------



## usrnam

*Re: Alternate Power adapters — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Can't he use a 5.5mm x 2.5mm male to 5.5mm x 2.1mm female DC jack adapter?
> 
> The only difference I can think of is a 5.5mm x 2.5mm adapter cord may use slightly larger pos+ / neg- wires.
> I've been thinking of finding another power supply. Here's a non oem for a Toshiba, 75 Watts 5amps / 15 volts.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Adapter-...hash=item1c3fa0ff7c:m:m3QlRQO57cAbzSHOv4KluUA



I think I may have been incorrect about the ground pin size. After comparing more closely to a 5.5mm x 2.1mm connector it appears the IBM Laptop power supply connector is 5.5mm x 2.5mm. There is only a .4mm difference, I was able to insert a small screw driver into the IBM laptop power supply dc jack, but not the Opus charger's ps jack which is suppose to be 5.5mm x 2.1mm.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hey everyone. Need bit of a help here setting up the perfect program here. I want to know at what charging rate is best for AAA's? Trying to have one program for AA's and AAA's. Trying to finalize at 600mA, But i am realizing as this rate. Could be brutal AAA's. Just trying to get an idea.

Thanks.


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The mod is done and ready for long term testing and everyday use.







Same setup as usual, room temp was higher at 28C and the charger was placed on a table. A more scientific test this time.




At 28:00 the temperature normalized:





*Notes:*
-With the new fans installed it was able to remain cool while discharging 4x1A. This mod is not really necessary as the charger has internal temperature regulation and overheat protection, at the expense of constant 1A discharge rate. 
-Doing this will void your warranty, obviously. 
-Putting everything back together was a real PITA.
-Now with the holes in the back the charger runs cooler. Charging 4×18650 1.5A does not even triggger he stock fan, temp remains at 43C.
-New fans are noisy, but quieter than the stock little fan.
-Did 2 C>D cycles with the new fans on, no problem to far.

Full mod thread is here.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

That looks like a great mod. However I'm wondering if a portable fan box built to fit over the top vents, pulling heated air out would be efficient enough to lower temperatures and at the same time not void the manufacture's warranty.

Did you first experiment with fan positioning using the stock air vents?

Bottom fan would need to push air in while top fans pulling air out. Perhaps wouldn't be able to lower temperatures enough?


----------



## richardcpf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> That looks like a great mod. However I'm wondering if a removable fax box built to fit over the top vents, pulling heated air out would be efficient enough to lower temperatures and at the same time not void the manufacture's warranty.



Sound like a good idea, you could use one or two laptop external heatsinks on top and reverse the bottom fan , this way cool air enters from the bottom and exit on top. 

You can also use a couple 5V fan the same size I used, and glue some magnets to it and to the top of the charger. Wire them to the USB so the fan works when plugged in and magnets allow them to be removed any time.


----------



## just like me

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Gawd. I was lurking when this thread first posted, read up to about 17 pages then. Tonight I just read 30 more pages before skipping here to post. Only one problem, I see no indication that MC3000 can charge Baghdad batteries. Oversight? 

We need a group buy for this charger.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



just like me said:


> We need a group buy for this charger.


*gearbest*, a cpf Authorized Dealer, posted on the web:


> 1.28th update
> 1. $89.95 for SKYRC MC3000 （price will be raised to $99.95 after a few days, because of the requirement of the maufacturer, hurry up if you like it )
> EU PLUG ( 8 in stocking now, Feb 1st-5th will comes new stocking about 170 pieces )
> US PLUG ( Feb 1st-5th will comes new stocking about 60 pieces)
> UK PLUG ( Feb 1st-5th will comes new stocking about 40 pieces)
> AU PLUG ( Feb 1st-5th will comes new stocking about 30 pieces)


Market introduction phase wiv promotional price is over, once the foreign retailers got their stock, prices will go up, looks like it. MAP


----------



## just like me

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> *gearbest*, a cpf Authorized Dealer, posted on the web:
> 
> Once the foreign retailers got their stock, prices will go up, looks like it. MAP



$10 off is very nice, but by group buy I really meant, er, fantasized 40%-50% off, which is ordinary for group buys of flashlights, and often includes some custom materials and/or branding -- fancy an all copper MC3000 anyone? I kid, that's nutty. Maybe Al though? > I suppose by the time such a thing could be organized, most of the expected interested parties will have already acquired one at the modest discount or full retail price. As for my personal need, I hope this will keep until I have enough cells to warrant getting a second charger, because this will be it even at 10% over retail.

kreisl you've been superhuman at fielding every inquiry I've seen in the thread. I hope SkyRC gives you good stuff for your tireless contributions dealing with flashaholics and strange battery folk.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



just like me said:


> you good stuff


Thanks!

i'd take another review sample, i heard that the units now have FCC/CE label sticker and slightly improved assembly (e.g. more thermal paste on the sensors, …) :sleepy:

free mc3000 for the squirrel, yaahh! :nana:


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> for the squirrel



(I saw this word several times in this thread. Can you give me the exact meaning? it'll make me another word in my English vocabulary) 🤔


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> (I saw this word several times in this thread. Can you give me the exact meaning? it'll make me another word in my English vocabulary) 樂



Ecureuil, regarde son avatar.


----------



## gyzmo2002

romteb said:


> Ecureuil, regarde son avatar.



I use the iOS application. Avatars are very small. I had not noticed that it referred to him. I found a different meaning as "sleazy guy". It was simple though. Thank you.🐿


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Gearbest original retail price for the MC3000 is listed as $171._38_ USD and has been marked down to $99.95. (store discount price went up $10.00). Stores usually purchase in volume so prices may vary depending on # of sales, stock supply, etc.

I'm uncertain how group buys are discounted, most likey would be disounted from a retail price somewhere over one hundred dollars. I've seen the MC3000 listed with an original retail price of over 180 dollars.

I imagine high volume sale items such as Flashlights would receive a higher gb discount while low volume items would be less.


----------



## DBrier

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

SkyRC updated the product page yesterday. I'm not sure what's different, but the manual (V1.0) is back online. The PC software is still version 1.0.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yea, I was hoping for a updated MC3000 Monitor.
I keep finding issues with the current one 
I mean, it works, but it's super clunky. I am finding just using the charger's interface is the most useful now and just montoring using the app.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The updated manual version should include a warning that for the firmware update procedure a premium USB cable must be used to ensure secure USB data transfer. A seemingly good old USB cable could have also been the reason why some users ended up with bricked chargers during the firmware update procedure. In this thread several people reported that PCLS randomly "stopped" logging and i had thought it was a bug in PCLS. By now we know it was the quality of the USB cable. Imagine you use such a "seemingly good old" USB cable for updating the firmware omg?

I just got a brand new Samsung J5 smartphone from amazon and i seized its included original USB cable, which is rather short, for my mc3k tests hehe. I have also tested the nominal 2600mAh 4.35V J5 battery with mc3k and will share the results very soon. With that J5 cable i don't seem to have problems with PCLS logging anymore hooray.

Also note that there is a big difference between a USB charge cable and a USB data cable. A USB data cable can be used for charging a gadget, yes. But a USB charge cable cannot be used for data transfer. I checked my household, i found lots of USB cables (from retail powerbanks, similar small gadgets, rechargeable devices including flashlights, USB-powered products), and only few of them were USB data cables. And the one which i had been using for over 2 years with the mc3k, a long original USB data cable for Tomtom GPS navigator, proved to be the unreliable factor in my charger-analyzer system! Only now am i realizing how important it is to make sure that your USB data cable is a top quality USB data cable and not just any USB data cable of any quality. (And that's why i have 2 premium USB cables incoming.) If you've been logging extensively with PCLS or DEX for weeks in long test runs and never experienced that PCLS would randomly "stop" receiving data, then you probably already use a top quality USB data cable and are cleared to use that cable for updating the firmware without worries.

Interesting development, most of the time (per week) we plug'n unplug a USB cable nowadays, that USB cable is used for charging or USB-powering some of our little devices, in short: for mobility, and not for USB data transfer. For data transfer we have stationary USB data cables installed: for printer, scanner, fax, keyboard, mouse, external HDD, etc. Never mind. Just saying. I wasn't totally aware before but now i am, there is a difference between USB charge cable and USB data cable.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

*kreisl*: While I don't disagree with you that a good quality cable is a must, it's pretty much a given that a device must "validate" a firmware image it's received before it attempts to write it to flash. If the device doesn't have enough memory to do this (as I suspect is the case with the MC3000) then the firmware update procedure should at least attempt to validate the image it's written is valid by way of a checksum then retrying (or reverting) if it doesn't match. Pushing a firmware image and "hoping for the best" is a recipe for disaster.

*Edit: It's been pointed out below that the MC3000 wouldn't be capable of doing the above.*

My Android phone for example will validate the OTA image it's received via the use of a signature before it attempts to flash it to the phone, then again after the image has been written to the phone the platform will ensure the checksum of the image written to flash matches the expected checksum.

My point is: cables/usb hubs/power spikes/cosmic rays can introduce errors. Systems *must* be setup correctly to handle them, not to choke and die.

Cheers,
Tim

*PS*: I am going to wait until almost everyone else has updated their firmware before I update mine, if/when a new v1.04 is released!
*PPS*: I hope this doesn't sound like a whinge, it's not! The charger itself is _outstanding at what it does._ This is all peripheral discussion brought about by the fact it's so amazingly flexible and able to be upgraded, unlike every other charger out there (hobby chargers excluded)
*PPPS: *Well, you can upgrade your BT-C3100 V2.1 to V2.2. _*cough*_You just have to buy a new one_*cough*_


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So does this mean a bricked charger is pretty much done for?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> So does this mean a bricked charger is pretty much done for?


No. If you go back over this thread you'll see people who had issues were given a separate "update" binary and managed to recover their charger Ok.

So you don't really have to worry. And I suspect SkyRC are going to ensure an updated updater is much less error-prone.

Still, when there's an update... you go first, I'll follow ;-)


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> when there's an update... you go first, I'll follow ;-)



Umm, no lol


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I heard that the new firmware update would be made available to me vely soon, but the China is going on CNY holiday season so i am left puzzled lol. I will not use my Tomtom data cable anymore. I wasted so much time and serious test efforts with that seemingly good old cable argh! My J5 data cable is too short for my liking and therefore only a temporary solution until i receive my 2 new premium cables.

Right now i am cycling 12 aa's (without logging) in mc3k, simultaneously. Each slot with 3 aa's in parallel (in that round sub-D size holder), and each slot with 3A/-1A cycling rates. The 15V power adapter doesn't seem to get warm or hot. Only mildly warm.

It would be a hassle to charge 12 aa's in a single run with an Imax B6, now wouldn't it? 

So much fun, i'll share photos of it.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Has anyone tried a mini-b to micro-B USB adapter? I have a few quality Mini-b cables and two (shorter) inexpensive micro-Bs.

USB Micro-B standard uses 5-pins.

USB Mini-b standard also uses 5-pins. Some devices use an unofficial Mini-b 4-pin and Mini-b Fuji version. 

USB cables designed for only charging aren't part of any USB standard. A USB cable needs a minium of 4 lines, two for pwr and two for data. Problems with data transfer can result from problems with the programming, poor quality cables or both.

I won't trust connecting any usb cable for updating firmware via a usb port extender. Normally updating firmware requires bit level programming, that addresses hardware chips on the pcb. Something slightly off such as a poor connection, line noise, interference, etc. may result with invalid check-sums and the firmware update will fail. Some USB connectors may not seat correctly and cause problems.

Here's a program I sometimes use to troubleshoot USB devices.

http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities/usbview.zip

(32 and 64 bit versions)

http://www.downloadcrew.com/article/32197-usb_device_tree_viewer

Linux version
http://sourceforge.net/projects/usbview/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/usbview2
http://www.kroah.com/linux/usb/
http://www.linux-usb.org/

USB port monitor/analyser - (14 day free trial)

http://www.eltima.com/products/usb-port-monitor/


----------



## Curetia

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I will not use my Tomtom data cable anymore. I wasted so much time and serious test efforts with that seemingly good old cable argh! My J5 data cable is too short for my liking and therefore only a temporary solution until i receive my 2 new premium cables.



Can you give us a link to your premium USB data cable? 
I uses my Sony Xperia Z1 one and had no problems until now but when it comes to problems I want to know which cable I can buy.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> The updated manual version should include a warning that for the firmware update procedure a premium USB cable must be used to ensure secure USB data transfer. A seemingly good old USB cable could have also been the reason why some users ended up with bricked chargers during the firmware update procedure. In this thread several people reported that PCLS randomly "stopped" logging and i had thought it was a bug in PCLS. By now we know it was the quality of the USB cable. Imagine you use such a "seemingly good old" USB cable for updating the firmware omg?



This is why I've said MicroUSB was bad idea here. Using of full-sized USB connector and cable is far more reliable. MicroUSB was designed for portable devices like phones etc, not for desktop boxes...


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Here's a program I sometimes use to troubleshoot USB devices.
> 
> http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities/usbview.zip
> 
> http://www.downloadcrew.com/article/32197-usb_device_tree_viewer



In addition, this one is handy:
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Has anyone tried a mini-b to micro-B USB adapter? I have a few quality Mini-b cables and two (shorter) inexpensive micro-Bs.


 I would advice strongly against using anything like that. Another pair of connectors, no matter how good, will distort signal much more than 2 meters of your average USB cable.

And yes, I'm also puzzled by the decision to use Micro-USB instead of Mini-USB... puzzled but not overly surprised - the product is designed in China, after all  The actual reason may be anything from the assumption that Micro-USB is the type most likely to be had by the user to the desire to decrease the cost of manufacture by a couple of fens per unit.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Do we all really believe this "faulty USB cable" thing?

I find it hard to believe the cable I have, that has flashed at least 30+ ROMs and uploaded countless Gigabytes of data to my phones, is the reason that PCLS stops logging now and then.

I don't believe it's the reason.

A faulty cable shows itself pretty quickly if you're using it for other things.

More likely a bad connector or bad USB implementation.


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Do we all really believe this "faulty USB cable" thing?



No, but unreliable connection might play its role in this problem sometime.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Do we all really believe this "faulty USB cable" thing?
> 
> I find it hard to believe the cable I have, that has flashed at least 30+ ROMs and uploaded countless Gigabytes of data to my phones, is the reason that PCLS stops logging now and then.
> 
> I don't believe it's the reason.
> 
> A faulty cable shows itself pretty quickly if you're using it for other things.
> 
> More likely a bad connector or bad USB implementation.



No the main problem is the USB implementation on the board which is probably not very good which reduce the margin to accommodate different quality (and probably lengths) of USB cables. 
If you watch the PCB photo from HKJ review you see that the USB line are long with at least two vias on the signal lines, but this is normally acceptable as the USB Full speed (12mbit/s) is quite robust. Another possible problem are the impedance of the line on the PCB that should be 90ohm differential, but this is hard to know if it was implemented correctly on the PCB. A last possible problem are the D16 and D18 protection diode on the USB line, these diodes have to be selected to have a very low parasitic capacitance because it's added directly on the USB lines. If these are diodes with high parasitic capacitance it's possible that the main problem is here.

Btw the Bluetooth module have some layout problems: the ground plane of the main PCB should have cut under the PCB antenna and in any case not signal of power lines shouldn't routed under the antenna. It would be better also to rotate of 90° counterclockwise to have the antenna near the border of the PCB. With a correct implementation the range of the bluetooth would be greatly increased.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



-Archie- said:


> This is why I've said MicroUSB was bad idea here. Using of full-sized USB connector and cable is far more reliable. MicroUSB was designed for portable devices like phones etc, not for desktop boxes...



I agree with you there. Give me a A B USB cable any day. That said, you can get some pretty crap ones out there


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> I would advice strongly against using anything like that. Another pair of connectors, no matter how good, will distort signal much more than 2 meters of your average USB cable.
> 
> And yes, I'm also puzzled by the decision to use Micro-USB instead of Mini-USB... puzzled but not overly surprised - the product is designed in China, after all  The actual reason may be anything from the assumption that Micro-USB is the type most likely to be had by the user to the desire to decrease the cost of manufacture by a couple of fens per unit.



Micro-B replacing Mini-b is suppose to have longer life, capable of more insertions and supposedly corrected other design faults of the Mini-b.

http://electronics.stackexchange.co...was-mini-usb-deprecated-in-favor-of-micro-usb

The Micro-B connector cost I believe is still more expensive than a Mini-b.

Micro-B is currently being replaced by USB-C which may eventually become a more common USB connector.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Type-C

The charger is in-between a large and small (hand held) device. I'm not certain why an A or B type connector wasn't used. There may be some electrical specifications and design factors, as the USB connects to small serial chip(s) and possibly TTL logic circuitry from a small form factor PCB. A and B connectors are used with e.g. hard drives, battery power packs, etc. The MC3000 has two different types of usb ports used for different purposes. Perhaps the design engineers didn't want the user to become confused plugging in power packs, etc. into the wrong usb port? I guess could have used a USB B connector.

http://www.cablestogo.com/learning/connector-guides/usb

Many years ago I use to sometimes build my own serial and parallel cables. Parallel devices use to be faster than serial, many of which were very slow. Hard drives and other types of cabling typically cost from around 30 to over a hundred dollars. 

9-pin DB-9 serial connection was developed by IBM for the PC. Before 9-pin serial (DB-9, RS-232) most serial cables were big and large, where many used ~32 +/- pins to communicate between _DTE_ (data terminal equipment) and _DCE (data circuit-terminal equip. aka data communications_ equip.)

Serial (sata) has pretty much replaced parallel at least with the mainstream hard drives. However there are still servers out there that still use SCSI equipment, which at one time produced the fasted and most reliable hard drives. I still have a rack of old scsi SCA drives and a few adapters. Using a scsi sca backplane you can run multiple swappable scsi drives from one scsi channel, where some scsi adapters have more than one channel. 

Back to topic serial USB and MC3000. I don't know, USB standards and connectors are continually being updated for newer and often smaller devices with more and more features.
_________

I downloaded and installed the Data Explorer Linux version into Ubuntu. It's not all that difficult to install. Ubuntu needs to be able to initialize the USB port and a set of rules need to be active for the Data Explore to execute correctly.

I tried getting the MC3000 bluetooth software to run under a Bluestacks emulator. The apk programming started to load but wouldn't run from the PC inside the emulator.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Curetia said:


> Can you give us a link to your premium USB data cable?
> I uses my Sony Xperia Z1 one and had no problems until now but when it comes to problems I want to know which cable I can buy.


I ordered the 2nd gen 2.4A data cable by Remax, released 2015, and i'll definitely share photos and impressions once i got it. Seems to be a really great brand, original designer and manufacturer, i am not sure about their product safety though


EDIT: oops, i just got the new firmware v1.04beita. looking at it right now, hmm…
hehehe .. so many nice changes/improvements based on the list. Looks like the manual needs a full rewrite haha. it's beita stadium, needs further testing (also by me), before it can be released to public. most k#'s have been addressed, pretty much all!


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> I tried getting the MC3000 bluetooth software to run under a Bluestacks emulator. The apx programming started to load but wouldn't run from the PC inside the emulator.


Does BlueStacks support Buetooth? An Android-x86 virtual machine (or bootable partition) seems the best way to run the MC3000 Android app on PC. I was able to do that with the NC2500 app, haven't tried the MC3000 app yet (not particularly curious about it since the charger supports USB connectivity)...


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> *kreisl*: While I don't disagree with you that a good quality cable is a must, it's pretty much a given that a device must "validate" a firmware image it's received before it attempts to write it to flash. If the device doesn't have enough memory to do this (as I suspect is the case with the MC3000) then the firmware update procedure should at least attempt to validate the image it's written is valid by way of a checksum then retrying (or reverting) if it doesn't match. Pushing a firmware image and "hoping for the best" is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> My Android phone for example will validate the OTA image it's received via the use of a signature before it attempts to flash it to the phone, then again after the image has been written to the phone the platform will ensure the checksum of the image written to flash matches the expected checksum.
> 
> My point is: cables/usb hubs/power spikes/cosmic rays can introduce errors. Systems *must* be setup correctly to handle them, not to choke and die.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim
> 
> *PS*: I am going to wait until almost everyone else has updated their firmware before I update mine, if/when a new v1.04 is released!
> *PPS*: I hope this doesn't sound like a whinge, it's not! The charger itself is _outstanding at what it does._ This is all peripheral discussion brought about by the fact it's so amazingly flexible and able to be upgraded, unlike every other charger out there (hobby chargers excluded)
> *PPPS: *Well, you can upgrade your BT-C3100 V2.1 to V2.2. _*cough*_You just have to buy a new one_*cough*_



It's impossible to do that with a microcontroller, not enough ram nor flash to contain a whole copy of the firmware.
The only thing that it's possible to do is to use a bootloader that it will be never deleted during the upgrade, then when the new firmware is flashed and at the end of the procedure the PC send the checksum of the firmware. The microcontroller marks as valid the new firmware only if the calculated checksum is matched. If there is any problem the bootloader will never start the corrupt firmware but wait for a new flash procedure.
I think that's about what is (correctly)implemented in the MC3000.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Micro-B replacing Mini-b is suppose to have longer life, capable of more insertions and supposedly corrected other design faults of the Mini-b.
> 
> http://electronics.stackexchange.co...was-mini-usb-deprecated-in-favor-of-micro-usb



What Russell had to say about the passive latching is the reason why I file off the hooks. It ruined my N900 which luckily I soldered back in place. Also had the mrs try inserting a micro upside down and somehow breaking that little tongue for the contacts on my viewsonic phone. 



> Perhaps the design engineers didn't want the user to become confused plugging in power packs, etc. into the wrong usb port? I guess could have used a USB B connector.



That's the idea. B port on the charger to an A port on your computer. That was the reasoning behind cables with A and B, A belongs to the host, B to the child. Micro is just because it's been mandated in Europe and now it's everywhere, possibly misunderstood or just the sign of the times


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



B-2Admirer said:


> Does BlueStacks support Buetooth? An Android-x86 virtual machine (or bootable partition) seems the best way to run the MC3000 Android app on PC. I was able to do that with the NC2500 app, haven't tried the MC3000 app yet (not particularly curious about it since the charger supports USB connectivity)...



I downloaded and installed Bluestacks to determine if the MC3000 apk would run and function ok. It starts to load but then hangs. I'm not familiar with Bluestacks. A virtual machine may a solution if the MC3000 apx isn't able to function under an emulator.

http://www.bluestacks.com/about-us.html

A fresh boot to another OS is probably a better solution. Emulators have been around a long time but OS's have become much more complex where an emulators may not be a good solution.

Under Linux I'm able to boot to different operating systems from a stored ISO on a hard drive. There are methods do this from Windows, however Linux includes as part of it's architecture multi-booting for different OSs and configurations including booting from stored hd ISO's. 

I mainly run a Windows OS which has most of my applications, but once in a while boot to Ubuntu 64-bit, which has come along quite a ways. Has various types of application development perhaps not found under Windows.

Linux runs somewhat lighter than Windows on the same machine and includes command line processor architecture and control not found under Windows OS, which sometimes becomes bogged down, due to lack of system resources.

I have an older PC running 64-bit OSs which runs a little better than previously installed 32-bit operating systems.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kappa7 said:


> It's impossible to do that with a microcontroller, not enough ram nor flash to contain a whole copy of the firmware.
> The only thing that it's possible to do is to use a bootloader that it will be never deleted during the upgrade, then when the new firmware is flashed and at the end of the procedure the PC send the checksum of the firmware. The microcontroller marks as valid the new firmware only if the calculated checksum is matched. If there is any problem the bootloader will never start the corrupt firmware but wait for a new flash procedure.
> I think that's about what is (correctly)implemented in the MC3000.



This makes sense, thanks for the information. I'll update my original post.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

A quick heads up, some notable improvements in FW1.04 quick tested so far by me are:

+ GSV has 1 new item called "Names: {Parameter|Default}". You still cannot name your own programs but at least TOV can show the main program parameters like chemistry, charge and discharge rates.
+ SOV has 1 new item called "Average". It shows the "average voltage" (of your test run?). I don't know how this value is being calculated. I guess that you get 3.6V when doing a full discharge run on a liion cell? Actually it doesn't matter how it is being calculated because the calculation method could be silently changed again in future firmware versions. The user is free to calculate the average voltage with his/her own averaging technique in Excel. There are hundred ways of defining an average value mathematically!
+ When an abnormal program termination occurs (capacity cut, time cut, temperature cut, etc), it is possible to enter SOV and DDV and look at the data up to that point. Depressing the SNB in TOV will quit the error.
+ The AUTO of the backlight works now as expected, it turns ON when battery is inserted or when a program has finished (or an abnormal program termination occurs).

Batt IR measurement has been improved internally but I still want that separate function for Batt IR measurement in TOV, i am working on it


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> A quick heads up, some confirmed _easily _notable improvements in FW1.04 are:
> + GSV has 1 new item called "Names: {Parameter|Default}". You still cannot name your own programs but at least TOV can show the main program parameters like chemistry, charge and discharge rates.
> + SOV has 1 new item called "Average". It shows the "average voltage" (of your test run?). I don't know how this value is being calculated. I guess that you get 3.6V when doing a full discharge run on a liion cell?
> + When an abnormal program termination occurs (capacity cut, time cut, temperature cut, etc), it is possible to enter SOV and DDV and look at the data up to that point. Depressing the SNB will quit the error.
> + The AUTO of the backlight works now as expected, it turns ON when battery is inserted or when a program has finished (or an abnormal program termination occurs).
> 
> I still want that separate function for Batt IR measurement in TOV, i am working on it


This is great news!
Thanks kreisl and SkyRC.
Looking forward to it.

How do you update the charger? New dedicated program or updated Monitor?

Or will you keep us in suspense?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> How do you update the charger? New dedicated program or updated Monitor?


i have no idea.

i got a standalone *.exe file for the beita ("dedicated program"). installs safely on WinXP thru premium usb data cable. if they distribute the dedicated updater.exe, they wouldn't need to urgently update the PCLS. at the same time i am not sure how safe it is to run the updater.exe on systems other than my WinXP


----------



## clintb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Do we all really believe this "faulty USB cable" thing?
> 
> I find it hard to believe the cable I have, that has flashed at least 30+ ROMs and uploaded countless Gigabytes of data to my phones, is the reason that PCLS stops logging now and then.
> 
> I don't believe it's the reason.
> 
> A faulty cable shows itself pretty quickly if you're using it for other things.
> 
> More likely a bad connector or bad USB implementation.


I used to think a cable wouldn't make much difference. If it's working on one device, it should be good to go on others, right? Not as I've found.

New Garmin Oregon 600 hand held GPS receiver. I had some maps to transfer onto it and into the expandable micro SD storage. Mini USB cable that has been used for other devices, with zero problems. I start the transfer of approximately 1 GB and it stops. I try again; same result. Take the card out and put it in a card reader directly attached to the computer...can't write to it, nor can I format. Crap. Returned that card (Sandisk Extreme) to Amazon for an exchange. Received new card (same Sandisk) and immediately tested in card reader with benchmark programs and copying huge amounts of data to/from. No problems. Put the card in the Garmin and try transferring maps...same thing again. It's like the card got software locked, which I learned is possible with micro SD. Sent that one off to Amazon for a replacement. This time, I switched to using the mini USB cable that came with the Garmin and it worked perfectly.


----------



## zasada

when i charge eneloop batteries in advanced mode i set the end voltage 1.65v and capacity for standard eneloop AA 2000mah and for pro 2500mah. The charger always stops charging when on the screen it is written cut capacity. What do I do wrong?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So i decided to test the SkyRC PC monitor. One thing i've noticed is the connectivity issues with certain usb cables. Luckily i have unused usb cables and that particular cable seem to got rid of the Usb connection error message. These micro USB ports are too fragile. Over time they data pins begins to wear or bend. And, not all cables are created equal too. There are some that come defective in a sense where it works fine on one device but has issues on another device. Experienced this many times and that is really annoying. But high quality cables works in all devices. That to me is QA passed. I have the habit to test connection before any type of data transfers, especially when flashing firmware are involved. Having a bricked phone due to a bad cable is not cool, and now that this charger has the ability to update. There is that risk of bricking it too. Would of been nice if the charger came with its own usb cable. The notion that you can just grab any cable, plug it in and flash is a disaster waiting to happen lol.


----------



## billcushman

zasada said:


> when i charge eneloop batteries in advanced mode i set the end voltage 1.65v and capacity for standard eneloop AA 2000mah and for pro 2500mah. The charger always stops charging when on the screen it is written cut capacity. What do I do wrong?



Read page 20 of the manual to understand what Capacity is. The fact that you are able to set capacity tells me you are not using the Eneloop mode. I suggest you use the Eneloop mode. If you did that you would not have had the problem. If Capacity is set for any Ni-MH type battery, it must be set at least 20% higher than the rated capacity of the battery. It is a safety feature to stop charging if other termination methods fail. Your charger stopped charging because you set the capacity too low and it resulted in a Capacity Cut.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Batt IR measurement has been improved internally but I still want that separate function for Batt IR measurement in TOV, i am working on it


oops, the function is there!
In TOV, pressing <STOP+UP> together will evoke the Batt IR measurement in TOV. The function is applied to ready slots only. The result is displayed in TOV. To quit the display of the miliOhms, in TOV one can click on ENTER (for RETURN), OR click on the SNB (to enter SPV) followed by STOP (to CANCEL SPV and return to TOV). 

Can the pressing of <STOP+UP> stop active slots, accidentally? Well, only if you're pressing like mr clumsy 

<UP+DOWN> would have been my preference and is feasible to implement but for now the key combination is <STOP+UP>. So yes, if you're clumsy with the key pressing, you would unintentionally STOP all slots hhh.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Nice that they have implemented the Batt IR as separate function. 
The problem to accidentally stop active slots can be resolved, as someone here on the forum has already suggested, by changing the stop function from short press of stop button to long press of stop button.


----------



## _UPz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> oops, the function is there!
> In TOV, pressing <STOP+UP> together will evoke the Batt IR measurement in TOV. The function is applied to ready slots only. The result is displayed in TOV. To quit the display of the miliOhms, in TOV one can click on ENTER (for RETURN), OR click on the SNB (to enter SPV) followed by STOP (to CANCEL SPV and return to TOV).
> 
> Can the pressing of <STOP+UP> stop active slots, accidentally? Well, only if you're pressing like mr clumsy
> 
> <UP+DOWN> would have been my preference and is feasible to implement but for now the key combination is <STOP+UP>. So yes, if you're clumsy with the key pressing, you would unintentionally STOP all slots hhh.



Great stuff! Nice work for the SKYRC team and squirrel. 
Shall we expect the firmware to be available at the end of the CNY, isn't it?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



_UPz said:


> Shall we expect the firmware to be available at the end of the CNY


I found bugs in the beita so the release firmware is covering 25+ k# items as listed. We can expect 1.04 to be available later this month. I figured out that Average in SOV is being computed as the quotient of energy and capacity. Discharging an old Samsung ICR18650-32A at -1.00A from 4.35V to 2.75V resulted in "Average: 3.700V" on the LCD lol. Right now i am doing a Break_in on a 100mAh NiMH and the charger has no problems with producing a steady 0.010A charge current, cool. So in theory, future firmware versions could support -0.01A/0.01A as the lowest rates instead of the official -0.05A/0.05A specification; but there is no urgency or priority and we'll unleash when time's come.






Thanks everyone for your interest and all the help with identifying bugs and submitting ideas and suggestions. With 1.04 out, it'll become harder to encounter remaining bugs, all of which probably really minor in nature. So many notable changes from 1.03 to 1.04, and probably only irrelevant and very few ones from 1.04 to 1.05, a safe guess. About then i'd compile my posts into a review of 1.05 and also have a comparative look at the assembly of the (more expensive) FCC/CE edition which started production in January and were shipped to foreign retailers (US/DE).


----------



## usrnam

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> So many notable changes from 1.03 to 1.04, and probably only irrelevant and very few ones from 1.04 to 1.05, a safe guess. About then i'd compile my posts into a review of 1.05 and also have a comparative look at the assembly of the (more expensive) FCC/CE edition which started production in January and were shipped to foreign retailers (US/DE).



The MC3000 (except for a EU plug version) was out of stock for a while, were recently listed back in stock with a ten dollar increase. If purchasing one of the newly stocked chargers which version is most likely being supplied?

What are the fundamental differences between the old versions and new FCC/CE edition?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



usrnam said:


> The MC3000 (except for a EU plug version) was out of stock for a while, were recently listed back in stock with a ten dollar increase. If purchasing one of the newly stocked chargers which version is most likely being supplied?
> 
> What are the fundamental differences between the old versions and new FCC/CE edition?


All newly stocked chargers are the FCC/CE edition. 
The fundamental differences: 
1) More expensive,
2) FCC/CE label sticker lol, 
3) Killed dino or that's what a squirrel would believe ,
4) Fan blow up 

I can't provide more (i.e. non-fundamental) details until i got my own copy for close-up comparison


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeah! I got a "Limited Edition" original release.

Team "Fan should blow down"!


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> All newly stocked chargers are the FCC/CE edition.
> The fundamental differences:
> 1) More expensive,
> 2) FCC/CE label sticker lol,
> 3) Killed dino ,
> 4) Fan blow up.
> 
> I can't provide more (i.e. non-fundamental) details until i got my own copy for close-up comparison



So I was right with my guess that the fan blowing down was not a smart idea.
I will wait your comparative review and the explanation of your fan mod to open my charger and apply all the useful optimizations.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> 3) Killed dino ,


LOL, how rude!?


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Yeah! I got a "Limited Edition" original release.
> 
> Team "Fan should blow down"!



Have you tested temperature differences between having the fan blowing air downward vs blowing air upwards?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Have you tested temperature differences between having the fan blowing air downward vs blowing air upwards?



No. I only have 1 charger. The original. Dino included. Fan blows down.

AS GOD INTENDED.

I refuse to acknowledge these "new" fan-blows-up, non-dino monsters.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i like your spirit


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Check out the SkyRC MC3000 web site. The cooling illustration changed several days ago. No one posted that they noticed it. The illustration now shows blue arrows pointed upward. The old illustration showed red arrows pointing downward. This change eliminates heat being pulled thru the charger from the heat sink. It also improves hot air recirculation.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@billcushman: Wow, excellent eyes, I hadn't noticed that but you're correct!

I think this was well done by SkyRC though. We got our chargers at a discounted rate and from it, they learnt a few things too. My only hope is that they haven't done a "Cisco" and put in twice the memory on the CPU/chip and then in a month's time will release some amazing new Firmware update that older models can't support.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This charger was recently marked up $10.00 from $89.96 to $99.95 (USD).

After e-mailing Everbuying.net I was told the MC3000 charger, (US plug version), is on backorder and will take approx. 10 to 25 days before restocked.

Currently Everbuying.net has a CNY 20% off site-wide coupon code. Site doesn't actually state how long the discount coupon will be available, promotion site recommends placing orders by Feb 4th, 2016.

http://www.everbuying.net/m-promotion-active-201.htm

Instead of $99.95 (USD) total cost including free (3 - 7 business days) expedited shipping is $85.37 (USD).

http://www.everbuying.net/product1111478.html


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So what's the code that gives 20% off?

I tried using a 10% coupon I have but when you apply it it first puts the price of the item up $10 then deducts the discount.

Bloody scam if you ask me.

Edit: found it 2016CNY


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The coupon calculates to 20 percent off a retail price of ~$125.00. I believe $99.95 is the stores sale price. Gearbest and Everbuying discounts are based on their own retail price, which may be different than the listed sale price.

There's also other prices such as a MSRP, which are usually higher.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Albert, the cheapest is not necessarily the best. Some of us pay a little more for excellent service and superior communication. I have had superb service from HKEquipment.net and highly recommend them. When I encountered a problem, they responded promptly and solved the problem to my satisfaction. Some CPF members have posted frustrating problems when using the cheapest suppliers.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes, your correct. Sales, service, communications and how customers are treated is very important. However I know there's people because of inflation, quality of goods and other factors, where a few dollars makes a huge difference with their spending. 

HKEquipment.net located in Hong Kong, currently has a promotional price of $99.95 and includes free shipping. However I couldn't find any information about the carrier, turn around time, tracking, etc. and I'm not familiar with there sales, service and communications, warranty, etc. 

http://www.hkequipment.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MC3000&CartID=1

There site does have terms and conditions that includes a warranty policy

"*Warranty Disclaimer*
This site and the materials and products on this site are provided "as is" and without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied."

http://www.hkequipment.net/terms.asp

I thought I would pass along the sales and coupon information as they're not many choices to where you can purchase a MC3000. 

I've had fairly good luck purchasing items not available in the US, coming from China and other countries. However, packages delayed 2 or 3 days at customs, potentially can be held for several weeks. I've had one item that never arrived, e-mailing the China vendor, he immediately sent a refund no questions asked.

I would strongly recommend when purchasing more expensive items from overseas and other countries to pay additionally for any tracking and insurance options. 

The larger online stores purchase in high volume at reduced prices. These and smaller volume stores don't always have good communications because of limited information. Product information is sometimes impossible to find. Part of the problem is manufactures don't always provide detailed product information which results in communication problem between customers and store personnel. Stores can try to improve communications but when there is no information available communications start to break down. 

It would be nearly impossible to train a number of employees to have technical expertise for a large variety products. Most of the high volume sales stores are basically variety stores. Products keep changing much more rapidly these days that any database would impossible to update, unless purchasing directly from a manufacture or manufacture's outlet. 

I would recommend if your looking for good sales communications and technical expertise to find a vendor who specifically knows details about a product and at the same time can offer some type of technical support. 
________

When purchasing some items you may also want to consider the stores service and replacement warranty. Shipping and replacement fees may supersede cost of just purchasing another item.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Have you tested temperature differences between having the fan blowing air downward vs blowing air upwards?


i have . blow up fan is very effective. systemp stays below 85c and the top grille gets hot from the hot air .

me likey


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i have . blow up fan is very effective. systemp stays below 85c and the top grille gets hot from the hot air .
> 
> me likeyí*¼í¼



Yes but the discharge rate has to decrease to stay under 85C.


----------



## bosko90

Hello. For some time now I have been following this forum. I am a fan of 18650 flashlights. When I saw this charger I was very fascinated by it. I wonder which side most recommend for purchase. Who has the best support and most trusted them.
I read that a new version comes with CE marking and improved cooling. who are already selling it with EU plug. Sorry for my english


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

4 x 1.00a discharge rate stays constant then


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> 4 x 1.00a discharge rate stays constant then



No...850ma slot 3-4...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

no. not with fan blow up.

you blow down

check you fan


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> no. not with fan blow up.
> 
> you blow down
> 
> check you fan



Yes, you are correct. The stock fan, without modifications, blows down. I read wrong your first statement. I apologize for the misinterpretation.[emoji42]


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

YEA! Team "Fan Blows Down" for life.

A question: That little Dino etched into the PCB: Is that supposed to be a squirrel? I have only just realised (even though I've read HKJ's review many times) - I assume that "person who helped them design it" refers to you kreisl?

What's there now, surely a squirrel?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes, you are correct. The stock fan, without modifications, blows down. I read wrong your first statement. I apologize for the misinterpretation.[emoji42]



I think you still mis-understand.

The first production run, of which you and I (and most other people in this thread who own one) have, has the fan that blows down. We also don't have a FCC/CE approval sticker, because they didn't have FCC approval when first released.

The new batch being sent out now has the fan that blows up, a FCC/CE sticker a number of other small improvements according to kreisl.

So the _stock fan_ for you and I is different to the _stock fan_ for someone who's got a unit from the newer batch.

I really don't understand the big deal though, how often are people fully discharging 4 x 18650's @ 1Amp in this thing? Does it really matter even when you are that a slightly lower discharge rate kicks in? It seems like more of a theoretical issue, or a once-every-year issue than a real, actual problem. And as we've already discovered, it can be fixed by having a second external fan blowing on the unit.


----------



## _UPz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I really don't understand the big deal though, how often are people fully discharging 4 x 18650's @ 1Amp in this thing? Does it really matter even when you are that a slightly lower discharge rate kicks in? It seems like more of a theoretical issue, or a once-every-year issue than a real, actual problem. And as we've already discovered, it can be fixed by having a second external fan blowing on the unit.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I think you still mis-understand.


 
No, I understand correctly[emoji6]

I never check the fan on my unit. For me, it was obvious that fan blowd up, samething with a laptop. Today, I just saw that the fan blows down on the first batch unit. I do not understand why the designers have thought to make it blows down. So evident....


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



_UPz said:


>



1 time the check capacity of a brand new cell batch.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> What's there now, surely a squirrel?




​






​


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I really don't understand the big deal though, how often are people fully discharging 4 x 18650's @ 1Amp in this thing? Does it really matter even when you are that a slightly lower discharge rate kicks in?



Doesn't bothered me a lot. If someone discharge at 1A and the charger down to 850mA, it's good to know the cause. And the cause is that the ventilation is not sufficient for discharging at this rate(fan blows down).The charger must lower the discharge rate to keep the temp under 85c.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kappa7 said:


> I will wait your comparative review and the explanation of your fan mod to open my charger and apply all the useful optimizations.


As soon as some owner of the expensive FCC edition shares a clear photo of the bottom showing label sticker and fan grille, i'll share the documentation of the assembly mods which i did on my early unit. Btw, i haven't ordered the FCC edition. I am perfectly happy with my unit. Unique. With textured buttons and erh dino


----------



## bosko90

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> no. not with fan blow up.
> 
> you blow down
> 
> check you fan



Which supplier already have improved chargers and CE label?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I plan to buy a second charger but I'll wait the platinum edition with 2 turbines at the back.[emoji3]


----------



## esiuda

I have one on the way, shows being shipped. Hope it is one of the second batch, but the first ones seem to work well enough! Will let you know what I see!


----------



## just like me

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

kreisl, I thought of a couple questions regarding the companion apps for the MC3000. Maybe there is an information page you have a link to that could answer all of them.

I know that iOS is supported, but what other Operating Systems have official applications to interface with the charger? 
Such as Mac OS X? Windows XP? Windows 7? Linux?
What is the earliest version of iOS that is supported? 

Apple is a bit of a controlling fascist when it comes to holding up access to third party developer software in order to force end users to update their core OS, which will often (if not always) break utility found in earlier OS versions, sometimes for that utility to become extinct, or introducing new bugs or interface problems for older hardware, effectively breaking the hardware, forcing a user to buy new hardware. I am still surprised they haven't been prosecuted under RICO for these practices.

Are only "official" closed source applications from the manufacturer supported, or is there some open standard that allows independent developers to create open source applications?

Thanks.


----------



## tjh

esiuda said:


> I have one on the way, shows being shipped. Hope it is one of the second batch, but the first ones seem to work well enough! Will let you know what I see!


How much did you pay for it? That's a good indication of which one you'll get.

But yes, these all seem to be minor iterative improvements. IT would have been nice if the MkI had better cooling, but as has been discussed in this thread already, it doesn't really matter, it's very minor.
It's main features, support for many battery types, very precise current, very precise measurement, PC and Android/IOS control and an upgradable firmware are the same regardless of a MkI or a MkII.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



just like me said:


> kreisl, I thought of a couple questions regarding the companion apps for the MC3000. Maybe there is an information page you have a link to that could answer all of them.
> 
> I know that iOS is supported, but what other Operating Systems have official applications to interface with the charger?
> Such as Mac OS X? Windows XP? Windows 7? Linux?
> What is the earliest version of iOS that is supported?


Are you talking about the PC logging software? Independent developers can ask Sky for the interface protocol if they want to create their own PC logging software. So far the WWW sees 2 public softwares: PCLS (WinXP+) and DEX (Win32/Win64/Mac/Linux). No matter how good PC logging software is, for the manipulation and publication of the data, called post-processing, you'll always need another PC software like Excel.

WinXP is 100% supported


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



just like me said:


> kreisl, I thought of a couple questions regarding the companion apps for the MC3000. Maybe there is an information page you have a link to that could answer all of them.
> I know that iOS is supported, but what other Operating Systems have official applications to interface with the charger?
> Such as Mac OS X? Windows XP? Windows 7? Linux?
> What is the earliest version of iOS that is supported?
> Thanks.



DataExplorer is better than the MC3000 Windows App for _monitoring what the charger is doing_. It's compatible with pretty much anything that runs Java (it's a Java app). Mac OSX is supported.

It doesn't let you start/stop/etc the charger, but the fact that it works tends to imply that the charger doesn't have some super tight control mechanism, it should be possible for someone with technical clue to "reverse engineer" the on-the-wire protocol to write their own control app.


----------



## bosko90

tjh said:


> How much did you pay for it? That's a good indication of which one you'll get.
> 
> But yes, these all seem to be minor iterative improvements. IT would have been nice if the MkI had better cooling, but as has been discussed in this thread already, it doesn't really matter, it's very minor.
> It's main features, support for many battery types, very precise current, very precise measurement, PC and Android/IOS control and an upgradable firmware are the same regardless of a MkI or a MkII.



For me is pretty important that they hace CE and FCC label. Because of the laws in our country, you can stay without a charger if does not have CE marking. what is the price of these? 99$?


----------



## MarioJP

tjh said:


> How much did you pay for it? That's a good indication of which one you'll get.
> 
> But yes, these all seem to be minor iterative improvements. IT would have been nice if the MkI had better cooling, but as has been discussed in this thread already, it doesn't really matter, it's very minor.
> It's main features, support for many battery types, very precise current, very precise measurement, PC and Android/IOS control and an upgradable firmware are the same regardless of a MkI or a MkII.


I like the D.reduce current feature. This makes it better to cycle NiMh cells effectively.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> WinXP is 100% supported



We are lucky. Instead WinXP, it could have been Win3.1.
A chance I still have a computer WinXP in the basement. A sophisticated battery charger for an outdated operating system...paradoxal. I know that the developers will fix it all in a near future. 

It's still my favorite charger and I could not do without it. 🙂


----------



## Albert_

The dynamics of multi-bay & multi-chemistry battery chargers restricts case design and cooling. Ideally the case would be designed to have air flow in from the front and out the rear. Many of the smaller mini PC's and set-top boxes have the same kind of problem. Their case designs are so small they become more difficult to efficiently cool than a larger case using larger fans.

Battery chargers using battery trays, produce additional heat which becomes difficult to extract.

_____

I hope SkyRC updates it's battery monitor. I tried using a program written to resize applcations without window re-sizing. It is able to only resize MC3000 monitor's cell configuration windows where the portions of the text doesn't adjust to re-sizing .

http://www.digitallis.co.uk/pc/ResizeEnable/

I don't know why a windows application would be written without window resizing, which is one of the fundamentals of gui applications and programming.

Is the lack of windows min/max/resize because of the Windows or .net version? I'm currently running Windows Vista 64-bit and this is the only application that has exhibited any gui problems.

installed .net versions, 1.0.3 through 4.0.3


----------



## tjh

Albert_ said:


> The dynamics of multi-bay & multi-chemistry battery chargers restricts case design and cooling. Ideally the case would be designed to have air flow in from the front and out the rear. Many of the smaller mini PC's and set-top boxes have the same kind of problem. Their case designs are so small they become more difficult efficiently cool than a larger case using larger fans.
> 
> Battery chargers using battery trays, produce additional heat which become more difficult to extract.



I can't understand why it couldn't have two small fans towards the rear, one on each side. [Note: I don't means fans on the back of the unit, I mean one on the left side of the unit and one on the right, but towards the back where the heatsink is) The left one sucks, the right one blows (or the other way). This would create excellent airflow over the fins of the heatsink and totally remove the "issue" fully.

I guess two fans are more complex and having them mounted on the side means they'd be nosier. But they'd only need to be small and not that fast to cool it properly (I think. I'm no thermodynamics engineer)


----------



## Devon

Why don't the owners of the inferior and superseded MK I MC3000 just reverse the polarity of their fans to make them blow upward.......and then their unit could be called an inferior and superseded MK IA MC3000? ??


----------



## HKJ

Devon said:


> Why don't the owners of the inferior and superseded MK I MC3000 just reverse the polarity of their fans to make them blow upward



That would not work, you have to turn it around.

There is no reason for two fans and blowing down cold also have been good enough if the heatsink and circuit board had been designed for it.


----------



## just like me

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Are you talking about the PC logging software? Independent developers can ask Sky for the interface protocol if they want to create their own PC logging software. So far the WWW sees 2 public softwares: PCLS (WinXP+) and DEX (Win32/Win64/Mac/Linux). No matter how good PC logging software is, for the manipulation and publication of the data, called post-processing, you'll always need another PC software like Excel.
> 
> WinXP is 100% supported



Awesome, that's all I needed to know, that there are options. All the marketing images I have seen pair an iPhone (4, I believe) with the charger, which I suppose is smart to unambiguously present that the apps are available on this popular platform. My concern was that Apple's development ideology might cause issues for end users (me) that either can't afford Apple's ~2 year hardware upgrade cycle, or are wise to Apple's upgrade model and uninterested in updating software due to risk of crippling older devices permanently and losing functionality. tl;dr if the apps can't be installed on my older iOS devices due to software restrictions requiring OS updates, I can still find that functionality on other less restrictive platforms. Thank you.


----------



## kreisl

HKJ said:


> That would not work, you have to turn it around.



+ 1

i asked if they couldn't add an option in SETUP (GSV) called "Blow Direction: {Up|Dn}" and they :hahaha:

and i was like oo:

and then :ironic:


lol


----------



## bosko90

tjh said:


> How much did you pay for it? That's a good indication of which one you'll get.
> 
> But yes, these all seem to be minor iterative improvements. IT would have been nice if the MkI had better cooling, but as has been discussed in this thread already, it doesn't really matter, it's very minor.
> It's main features, support for many battery types, very precise current, very precise measurement, PC and Android/IOS control and an upgradable firmware are the same regardless of a MkI or a MkII.



For me is pretty important that they have CE and FCC label. Because of the laws in our country, you can stay without a charger if does not have CE marking. what is the price of these? 99$?


----------



## billcushman

Hot air rises. When hot air is exhausted out the bottom it can easily be recirculated thru the vents at the top if the fan is running. This factor and the fact that heat from the heat sink is drawn thru the charger makes a significant difference when the fan is reversed. If you restrict discharge of four Li-Ion batteries to .50A with the downward blowing fan, the charger runs very comfortably cool. It is even OK discharging four Li-Ion at up to about .80A. You can discharge one Li-Ion at up to 2.00A or two Li-Ion at 1.00A and the charger will run nice and cool. Only when you want to discharge four Li-Ion batteries at 1.00A does the reversed fan have a big advantage.


----------



## billcushman

FCC certification assures that the MC3000 does not emit significant RF radiation that might cause interference with other products. It also requires that the MC3000 is immune to problems caused by RF ingress from other equipment. CE certification is required for legal import to all CE countries. I am not familiar with all the current CE requirements.


----------



## kappa7

Yes standard Fans can't be reversed by swapping the wires. But removing the Fan and turn it around doesn't seem hard to do, there are only two plastic clips and a bit of glue that looks very easy to remove.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is it really worth opening up the charger to do this?

Why not just put a small fan next to the charger when doing a 1A x 4 18650's discharge?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

When I discharge 4 batteries at 1A rate, I turn the charger upside ... in this way, the fan pushes upward. The only problem is that I do not see the display.[emoji12]


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> When I discharge 4 batteries at 1A rate, I turn the charger upside ... in this way, the fan pushes upward. The only problem is that I do not see the display.[emoji12]


I used to do that with the previous charger. I rather not want to do that again with this charger lol.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I used to do that with the previous charger. I rather not want to do that again with this charger lol.



We spent the afternoon talking about fan .... it must be a good topic. As the fan works well, even if the charger is not charging, it is not serious.lol


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Been reading a lot about the cooling on this charger. Never realize the direction of airflow makes quite a difference.


----------



## Albert_

*PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*

After trying to use the MC3000 monitor under Windows XP 32-Bit I'm obtaining the same results as under Windows Vista 64-Bit. 

The MC3000 monitor application provides no (gui) window min, max or resizing capabilities at all. Under settings the cell configuration window opens half sized, without any minimum, maximum or resizing functions.

I tried various compatibility modes and settings. However this program wasn't able to execute under Windows 95, 98 or ME compatibility modes.

Was the GUI programming originally written for Windows 95/98/Me?

Advertising from SkyRC site shows:

PC Control

User can use PC Link software to control the charger, view real time data with graphs, and also update the charger firmware through it.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*

PCLS is very simple and needs further development, see the list: tinyurl.com/mc3k-list

afaik PCLS is developed under winxp 32bit environment


----------



## Albert_

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



kreisl said:


> PCLS is very simple and needs further development, see the list: tinyurl.com/mc3k-list
> 
> afaik PCLS is developed under winxp 32bit environment




If a gui application has specific requirements then a document should be included stating requirements such as compatible video resolutions.

This is a fairly basic standard in the implementation of software's, that's been around since the 1980s. 

Under which resolutions and/or video hardware's is the MC3000 monitor able to function? I've tried various video resolutions with the same results.

I would like to be able to control and edit the charger configuration from a PC as advertised from the SkyRC site.

If the MC3000 can be controlled by serial commands over the USB buss it probably won't be all that difficult to write a software application. I've done this type of programming with other types of electronics such as GPS, various types of radio and video equipment, security systems, CCTV cameras, home automation controllers & devices, etc.

Programming becomes more difficult if a device requires programming of control chips using binary code.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*

For those in the United States, the MC3000 is now listed at ProgressiveRC in Seattle, WA. They expect to receive chargers on about February 8th. Go to their web site for more information.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



Albert_ said:


> Under which resolutions and/or video hardware's is the MC3000 monitor able to function? I've tried various video resolutions with the same results.



i use FullHD as video resolution under WinXP. no problems here.

as we know, the PCLS leaves a lot to be desired


----------



## Albert_

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



billcushman said:


> For those in the United States, the MC3000 is now listed at ProgressiveRC in Seattle, WA. They expect to receive chargers on about February 8th. Go to their web site for more information.



That's a good deal with a good return / warranty policy, that appears to be worth the extra few dollars.

I have already placed an order with Everybuying.net, total with shipping and tax being approx. ~$23.00 less.


----------



## tjh

I've just turned mine upside down.
It does have a CE/FCc logo on it.

But the fan def blows down.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



kreisl said:


> i use FullHD as video resolution under WinXP. no problems here.
> 
> as we know, the PCLS leaves a lot to be desired



What do you mean by FullHD? I have a couple of older Thinkcentres connected to a 32" PC/TV monitor. I tried various resolutions the default being 1600 x 900. The MC3000 monitor application doesn't want to change window box size nor has displayed any window sizing controls.


----------



## kreisl

tjh said:


> I've just turned mine upside down.
> It does have a CE/FCc logo on it.
> 
> But the fan def blows down.


The ones from ProgressiveRC should have blow up fan. Maybe someone can confirm then.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



Albert_ said:


> What do you mean by FullHD? I have a couple of older Thinkcentres connected to a 32" PC/TV monitor. I tried various resolutions the default being 1600 x 900. The MC3000 monitor application doesn't want to change window box size nor has displayed any window sizing controls.



FullHD is another term for 1080p.

Resizing PCLS window is not possible in v1.01


----------



## billcushman

tjh said:


> I've just turned mine upside down.
> It does have a CE/FCc logo on it.
> 
> But the fan def blows down.



When was your MC3000 shipped? If you don't know the shipping date, when was it received?


----------



## Albert_

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



kreisl said:


> FullHD is another term for 1080p.
> 
> Resizing PCLS window is not possible in v1.01


 
Is there a window sizing version available for download?


----------



## tjh

billcushman said:


> When was your MC3000 shipped? If you don't know the shipping date, when was it received?


It was ordered with HKE and part of the batch that said "Won't ship until the 15th of Jan". It must have shipped on that date because I received it here in NZ on the 19th of Jan.

Here's a photo of it's bottom.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



Albert_ said:


> Is there a window sizing version available for download?


no. perhaps in future.

you can try DEX too.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



kreisl said:


> no. perhaps in future.
> 
> you can try DEX too.



The video monitor is able to function under many video resolutions. However when set to a 1920 x 1080 video resolution from 60 to 120 hz, the Sony monitor tells me it's unable recognize the video output signals. If it were a 1080p monitor I would be able to set video resolution to 1920 x 1080.

In the meantime I may pickup a smaller used 1080p PC monitor somewhere. I've come accross them several times but never cross my mind one would be needed to run software.

--- I was able to get the monitor to partially work, running from a laptop. The cell configuration screen works ok. However the main screen is still too large. The highest laptop LCD screen resolution is 1024 x 768. 

Apparently the MC3000 monitor is limited to a 1080 video resolution and higher in order to correctly display the larger main screen i.e. if the video monitor is able to recognize 1080p output signals.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just receive a good cable for using the charger with a computer. Everything seems to be fine. I'm with Win7Pro64 1920 by 1080. 
MC3000 Monitor V1.01 displays correctly. I can not enlarge it but it is fine like that. 
Nothing is missing in the display. Didd not try it on the WinXP in the basement.

http://s19.postimg.org/gnc576nk3/image.jpg

Is there something I missed?


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> I just receive a good cable for using the charger with a computer. Everything seems to be fine. I'm with Win7Pro64 1920 by 1080.
> MC3000 Monitor V1.01 displays correctly. I can not enlarge it but it is fine like that.
> Nothing is missing in the display. Didd not try it on the WinXP in the basement.
> 
> http://s19.postimg.org/gnc576nk3/image.jpg
> 
> Is there something I missed?



From information gathered, MC3000_Monitor.exe works ok at a ???? x 1080 and perhaps similar video display resolutions.

My PC monitor and laptop's video adapter/driver (max. is 1024 x 768) are unable to operate and display at 1080. 

Modern PCs and laptops most are capable of 1080p. However, my Sony PC/TV monitor is rated at 720p and it is unable to recognize native 1080 signals and only able to simulate HD. 720p monitors use fewer pixels than 1080p monitors. When I purchased the TV / PC monitor new I was looking for a 1080p monitor but the stores didn't have any in 32" so opted for a 720p model instead.

Normally this doesn't make a big difference as the PC/TV monitor's display resolution of 1600 x 900 appears to be HD and normally is able to play and stream HD video. The problem is the monitor is unable to read native 1080p signals which is required by the video adapter and driver to function at 1080p natively.

The MC3000_Monitor.exe seems to only be able to function correctly and limited to a native 1080 display resolution.

e.g. If I change the PC to a 1600 x 1200 video display resolution. The window of the cell configuation can't be resized along with the menu control items misplaced.

Perhaps it's a limitation of the programming language or some window controls haven't been implemented.

The exe file under details,

File description: "usb loader host"
Language: "Language Neutral"
Date Modified: "12/12/2015"
Product Version: 1.0.0.0
Copyright: 2010


----------



## gyzmo2002

1280 par 1024

http://s19.postimg.org/8x9yfsamb/image.jpg

18" display


----------



## gyzmo2002

1280 by 960

http://s19.postimg.org/jldpemklf/image.jpg

Under this resolution, the display begins to fail.


----------



## TeMpL

kreisl said:


> The ones from ProgressiveRC should have blow up fan. Maybe someone can confirm then.


Fan is the same just turned around. Od different one with more cfm?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> However, my Sony PC/TV monitor is rated at 720p and it is unable to recognize native 1080 signals and only able to simulate HD. 720p monitors use fewer pixels than 1080p monitors. When I purchased the TV / PC monitor new I was looking for a 1080p monitor but the stores didn't have any in 32" so opted for a 720p model instead.
> 
> Normally this doesn't make a big difference as the PC/TV monitor's display resolution of 1600 x 900 appears to be HD and normally is able to play and stream HD video. The problem is the monitor is unable to read native 1080p signals which is required by the video adapter and driver to function at 1080p natively.




I have a 42" Pioneer Elite High Definition XGA Resolution (1,024 x 768) and I don't have any problem to watch tv in 1080i. I have the same clean image as my 1080P in the basement. If I could try something to help you, don't hesitate.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I don't think the MC3000 program is going to be able display windows correctly using this monitor and video adapter combination, without window sizing controls.

1024 x 768 max. video resolution partially works using a XR-1 Gobook laptop running Windows xp, used primarily for GPS mapping. Works great running mapping programs, etc.

Newer monitors and adapters may not have any problems. The PC and laptop date back a number of years into the 2000's using older pc architectures.

The monitor and pc work without any problems for video streaming, Netflicts, news media, Youtube, etc. I have watched HD movies without any problems.

720p monitors can emulate 1080 however true native 1080p normally requires a 1080p monitor.

Output signal from a PC needs to correspond to certain compatible video resolutions for a monitor to function.

Sony lists these resolution for one of their 1080p TV/PC monitors.

* VGA 640 × 480 31.5 60 VGA
* SVGA 800 × 600 37.9 60 VESA Guidelines
* XGA 1,024 × 768 48.4 60 VESA Guidelines
* WXGA 1,280 × 768 47.8 60 VESA
* WXGA 1,360 × 768 47.7 60 VESA

SXGA 1,280 × 1,024 64.0 60 VESA
HDTV 1,920 × 1,080 67.5 60 CEA-861

* My 720p monitor

720p is 1,280 pixels displayed across the screen horizontally and 720 pixels down the screen vertically.
1080p represents 1,920 pixels displayed across the screen horizontally and 1,080 pixels down the screen vertically.

Trying to achieve a true native 1080p resolution from a 720p monitor is going to be difficult if not impossible.

What the programmer or programming did was set the application window size to a specific size in relation to a 1080p video resolution. A non 1080p monitor such as a 720p monitor the video monitor and pc driver may be good enough to resize window object to obtain a compatible 1080p resolution. However my monitor is unable recognize or use any 1080p or near 1080 video resolutions. It's basically a problem with screen size, electronic signals and frequency in relation to the number of screen pixels.

My monitor also uses a PC VGA port and not HDMI, which many of the newer monitors now use and implement HD from.


----------



## bosko90

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I hope that one day they will make the program as ChargeMaster 3.1 for D200 Charger. It is much better and you can easily scaling the graphs.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



billcushman said:


> For those in the United States, the MC3000 is now listed at ProgressiveRC in Seattle, WA. They expect to receive chargers on about February 8th. Go to their web site for more information.


Car adapter included?


Specifications 

*Input voltage:* 11-18V DC 
*Input current:* 4A 
*Charge current range:* 0.05-3A 
*Discharge current range:* 0.05-2A 
*Supported chemistries:* Li-Ion, Li-Ion 4.35V, LiFe, NiMH, NiCd, NiZn, Eneloop 
*Supported capacities:* 100-50000mAh 
*Wall Adapter:* Included 
*Car Adapter:* Included 
*Weight:* 600g 
*Dimensions (LxWxD):* 200x124x69mm 
*Warranty:* Limited Lifetime 

http://www.progressiverc.com/skyrc-mc3000-multi-chemistry-charger.html


----------



## kreisl

*Re: PC Control - MC3000 Monitor Software*



Zanders said:


> Car adapter included?


could be a typo.

better not insist on receiving a car adapter, if this turns out to be a typo/error on their webpage. let's be relaxed


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> I don't think the MC3000 program is going to be able display windows correctly using this monitor and video adapter combination, without window sizing controls.



Tell me what resolution for my laptop (1280 by 960 and higher) and I will try it on my 10 years old Pioneer Elite HD if it could help you. I will use HDMI.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Plasma/PRO-940HD


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

What firmware will the new chargers ship with I wonder?


----------



## morcegolas

Hi guys, I received my CR123 from FastTech today, they are LiFePO4 400mAh.
For charging settings:
Type - LiFE
Capacity - 500
C.Current - 0.2
Target Volt - 3.6
Termination - ?

Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

@morcegolas, i am no expert so here my take ymmv: 
C.Resting - 10min
Termination - Zero

@Minimoog, the shipped firmware in the 'new' hardware is unchanged, same ol' v1.03. And safe to assume, as soon as v1.04 has been released, that updated fw version will be injected in the new hardware during production, silently. Buyers of the expensive new hardware could post a pic of GSV: i wouldn't necessarily call a charger with reversed fan installation and added label sticker 'new hardware' :laughing: but maybe it was reason enough for the maker to increment the hw version in GSV lol.

Break_in test has finished, i've re-edited the list, and i am done with testing v1.04b. I won't test Dummy Mode, that's too below me haha. The implementation of _NiMH _RESTART VOLT has not been changed since the maker couldn't agree with our suggestion (=RE-PEAK) how that NiMH option should work in practice (algorithm). The implementation of _LiIon _RESTART VOLT option is perfect though, no need to change it. We'll revisit the topic _NiMH _RESTART VOLT in future, np don't wollie. So far i have not tested much DEX nor the Android app. And i've been testing PCLS for logging, not controlling/programming.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> @morcegolas, i am no expert so here my take ymmv:
> C.Resting - 10min
> Termination - Zero
> 
> @Minimoog, the shipped firmware in the 'new' hardware is unchanged, same ol' v1.03.



Unchanged? compared to what? The first batch is 1.02.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

For 1.04, do they have implented a warning message before accidental terminating?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

what's that ? 

see the list for the changes.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> what's that ?
> 
> see the list.



We made this suggestion before.... If we push a wrong key, instead a terminaison, we suggested to have a confirm message. "Do you want to terminate?" Or whatever


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

ah you mean the STOP-button ? nah i don't see that coming, sorry. as the manual states, the STOP-button means STOP lol. (or FINISH. which is almost the same meaning.) i learned it. and you can practice it.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> what's that ?
> 
> see the list for the changes.



We were several to have suggested this one. 🤔


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

#1812 to #1818 and more...


----------



## kreisl

but not in 1.04 or 1.05 coming

maybe thereafter

oki ?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The first one who made this suggestion:

Post #1659


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> but not in 1.04 or 1.05 coming
> 
> maybe thereafter
> 
> oki ?



Will you suggest it? Or not. Maybe....could be yes or no....[emoji12]

Another one: instead of just discharge capacity on the display at the end, could it be possible to have the charge capacity too? We have the charge capacity on ios and discharge capacity on the charger display. Weird....


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> The first one who made this suggestion:
> 
> Post #1659



The solution is very simple. *Don't push stop. * I learned this very quickly and no problem since.


----------



## gyzmo2002

billcushman said:


> The solution is very simple. *Don't push stop. * I learned this very quickly and no problem since.



Glad for you. It's not everyone who spends 12 hours a day to play with the charger.

In 10 years, when I'm at my pension, I have more time.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Tell me what resolution for my laptop (1280 by 960 and higher) and I will try it on my 10 years old Pioneer Elite HD if it could help you. I will use HDMI.
> 
> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Plasma/PRO-940HD




You can test out several resolutions that didn't work with my adapter monitor combination - 1024 x 768, 1280 x 1024, 1600 x 900, and 1600 x 1200 

A few resolutions almost worked however the cell configuration window is normally not long enough horizontally and/or menu items become distorted.

Some video resolutions, such as 1920 x 1080, the monitor isn't able to recognize output video signals.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> You can test out several resolutions that didn't work with my adapter monitor combination - 1024 x 768, 1280 x 1024, 1600 x 900, and 1600 x 1200
> 
> A few resolutions almost worked however the cell configuration window is normally not long enough horizontally and/or menu items become distorted.
> 
> Some video resolutions, such as 1920 x 1080, the monitor isn't able to recognize output video signals.



I will check it after work later this afternoon when I will be home.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just received the panasonic 18650B. The charger won't make contact on the + terminal. I hsve to say, this is tricky.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I just received the panasonic 18650B. The charger won't make contact on the + terminal. I hsve to say, this is tricky.


Yep, you will have to charge them towards the top of the holders. One or two at a time isn't too bad. Four of them at the same time is a little precarious.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> Yep, you will have to charge them towards the top of the holders. One or two at a time isn't too bad. Four of them at the same time is a little precarious.


Yeah, now that i realized (though i was very frustrated yesterday and cpf goes on maintenance right when i needed help lol)

I managed to figured it out. What i end up doing is to use the outter bays on both chargers, since its much easier to get the + end to make contact. Oh and the other issue is the voltage does not match the readings on the DMM. It reads higher than what the charger reads. I am guessing its the dmm. Kind of confused on this one. I even factory reset the calibration and no change on the readings. So it has to be the multimeter that i am using. This sure was unexpected surprise when charging Li-ion cells.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

if you want the multimeter reading to match, you know what to do


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Yeah, now that i realized (though i was very frustrated yesterday and cpf goes on maintenance right when i needed help lol)
> 
> I managed to figured it out. What i end up doing is to use the outter bays on both chargers, since its much easier to get the + end to make contact. Oh and the other issue is the voltage does not match the readings on the DMM. It reads higher than what the charger reads. I am guessing its the dmm. Kind of confused on this one. I even factory reset the calibration and no change on the readings. So it has to be the multimeter that i am using. This sure was unexpected surprise when charging Li-ion cells.



On LiIon cells the charger matches a DMM perfectly or you may need to get your DMM adjusted (calibration is just a check). With NiMH the charger is pulsing the current and it is difficult to compare with a DMM (A expensive top of the line (i.e. a thousand $ or more) bench multimeter can handle it, but normal DMM's cannot).


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> On LiIon cells the charger matches a DMM perfectly or you may need to get your DMM adjusted (calibration is just a check). With NiMH the charger is pulsing the current and it is difficult to compare with a DMM (A expensive top of the line (i.e. a thousand $ or more) bench multimeter can handle it, but normal DMM's cannot).


It even reads higher from the cell directly. The charger reads 4.00v before pulling the cell out. Multimeter reads 4.15v??. Its the reason why i stopped the charging. This is confusing.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> It even reads higher from the cell directly. The charger reads 4.00v before pulling the cell out. Multimeter reads 4.15v??. Its the reason why i stopped the charging. This is confusing.



The calibration of the charger may be faulty or the DMM may be faulty. 
You can calibrate the charger you self, but only do it if you have a meter that is precise. The charger I got was rather precise on voltage.

My idea on checking this:
1) New battery in the DMM.
2) Compare to a friends DMM.
3) Buy/borrow a new "cheap" DMM and compare to it.
(The best solution is, of course, to compare to a calibrated DMM, but I do not supposed you have access to that)
If all of the above shows that your DMM is correct, the you need to calibrate the charger (I.e. the person that was supposed to do the calibration of the charger was sleeping).


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> (I.e. the person that was supposed to do the calibration of the charger was sleeping).


as i heard, factory people in the china take an official power nap after lunch for 30-60mins, depending on how fast lunch was devoured


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The calibration of the charger may be faulty or the DMM may be faulty.
> You can calibrate the charger you self, but only do it if you have a meter that is precise. The charger I got was rather precise on voltage.
> 
> My idea on checking this:
> 1) New battery in the DMM.
> 2) Compare to a friends DMM.
> 3) Buy/borrow a new "cheap" DMM and compare to it.
> (The best solution is, of course, to compare to a calibrated DMM, but I do not supposed you have access to that)
> If all of the above shows that your DMM is correct, the you need to calibrate the charger (I.e. the person that was supposed to do the calibration of the charger was sleeping).


At the moment there is no way proving that. What i don't get is how i didn't catch this before? It even reads higher on a eneloop cell. Could it be the multimeter going wonky. Its definitely more than 10 years.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> At the moment there is no way proving that. What i don't get is how i didn't catch this before? It even reads higher on a eneloop cell. Could it be the multimeter going wonky. Its definitely more than 10 years.



As I wrote: First point is new batteries in the DMM.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> As I wrote: First point is new batteries in the DMM.


I am on it lol


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> as i heard, factory people in the china take an official power nap after lunch for 30-60mins, depending on how fast lunch was devoured



I am in favour of that idea, but I have never had success with the idea when asking the management (I admit, I wanted a 240 minute power nap).


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@MarioJP

You can get a cheap voltage reference within 0,01 % accuracy at voltagestandard.com.

http://shop.voltagestandard.com/pro...4A423.m1plqscsfapp02?productId=1&categoryId=1


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Viking said:


> @MarioJP
> 
> You can get a cheap voltage reference within 0,01 % accuracy at voltagestandard.com.
> 
> http://shop.voltagestandard.com/pro...4A423.m1plqscsfapp02?productId=1&categoryId=1



You can get many good references from them, but they are more expansive than a cheap DMM (and more reliable). 
The best "cheap" reference I have seen is this: http://www.ianjohnston.com/index.php?id=20 (It is rather expensive, but if you want something precise this is worth the money).


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

New unused primary batteries will give some indication of accuracy, but they do vary and lithium primaries probably vary more than alkaline batteries. I do not use any alkaline batteries because of leakage problems, even on new batteries.

I measured 24 Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries with a Fluke 289 DVM. The results were as follows in DC Volts:

Expiration date 03-2025, Quantity 4:
Average = 1.8216
Std dev = 0.0007
Min = 1.8170
Max = 1.8225

Expiration date 12-2024, Quantity 20
Average = 1.8108 
Std dev = 0.0016
Min = 1.8089
Max = 1.8136

The Fluke 289 has an input impedance of 10 Megohms. Low cost meters with a lower input impedance will cause the readings to be lower. All batteries in this test were brand new and unused. The ambient temperature was about 73℉.

My two SkyRC Mc3000s had no error to 2 decimal places, so I did not feel the need to calibrate it.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Update: Cells are discharged Multimeter with charged up batteries.


Charger reads and using the same cell here what i get

First charger
Slot1 3.179v
Slot2 3.177v
Slot3 3.179v
Slot4 3.184v

Second Charger
Slot1 3.182v
Slot2 3.182v
Slot3 3.182v
Slot4 3.183v

I could not get the multimeter to measure like that. Readings jumps all over the place.

Ran the test 3 times.

The readings on the 2nd seems spot on.

As for accuracy goes. The meter still reads slightly higher by .10 off


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

MarioJP, it sounds like you have answered your own question. Both of your MC3000s read correct to two decimal places so you don't really need to calibrate. If you want to calibrate without a good standard, I would suggest charging a Li-Ion cell to 4.20 in the second charger. Let it rest for 24 hours. Then measure it in the second charger while in calibration mode. If you adjust the second charger (not recommended) set all slots to the average reading that it displayed before calibration. Set all four slots of the first charger to that same value. It may be time for you to get a better DVM. Your data shows that the MC3000 is much more accurate than your DVM. This is why most users should not calibrate their MC3000.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeah, thats what its coming down to. I havent been able to charge the 18650's up to 4.20 because of this. I was afraid of a slight overchage and one day boom and not sure why lol. I really hope it is dvm because this is not alright lol. Better to catch these sort of things now than be sorry later lol.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

MarioJP, is the MC3000 your first Li-Ion charger? With the MC3000 you are now able to charge your 18650s (?) fully and safely. If they are 3400mAh, you can easily charge at 2A and terminate at .05A if you want a fast and full charge. Remember that charge and discharge mAh are the same within 1% on good Li-Ion cells. This is not true for NiMH.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes it is and good to know. I just won't be relying on dvm anymore until i get a new one. Just weird how i didn't notice this before. So all this time the dvm was giving me false readings lol.

Update: Yes, cells reached 4.20v no problems, and i could see that the current slowly tapering off. Would be interesting what the meter would measure as. This whole experience has put me on edge because of the stupid DVM lol.

OK, cells are now fully charged. 4.20v right off the charger. The meter reads 4.30v. You know what i am just going to simply ignore the values coming from the meter and going to assume that all this was for nothing and that the chargers are fine and call it a night.

Good night lol.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> You can test out several resolutions that didn't work with my adapter monitor combination - 1024 x 768, 1280 x 1024, 1600 x 900, and 1600 x 1200
> 
> A few resolutions almost worked however the cell configuration window is normally not long enough horizontally and/or menu items become distorted.
> 
> Some video resolutions, such as 1920 x 1080, the monitor isn't able to recognize output video signals.



Sorry for the delay:

1920 by 1080
http://s19.postimg.org/qdxkkyq4j/image.jpg

1280 by 1024
http://s19.postimg.org/xv6s06fnn/image.jpg

1280 by 960 (sorry for the color, just on picture)
http://s19.postimg.org/4hb1klcxv/image.jpg

This one is borderline. Under this resolution, it is not displayed correctly. 

I dont have 1600-1200 nor 1600-900 but many others on my 18" display.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Sorry for the delay:
> 
> 1920 by 1080
> http://s19.postimg.org/qdxkkyq4j/image.jpg
> 
> 1280 by 1024
> http://s19.postimg.org/xv6s06fnn/image.jpg
> 
> 1280 by 960 (sorry for the color, just on picture)
> http://s19.postimg.org/4hb1klcxv/image.jpg
> 
> This one is borderline. Under this resolution, it is not displayed correctly.
> 
> I dont have 1600-1200 nor 1600-900 but many others on my 18" display.


 
The cell settings configuration window is the screen that normally has problems even when the larger screens do not. 

Which monitor is the 18" display? The pics are from a laptop? 

Pro-940HD product brochure

High Definition XGA Resolution (1,024 x 768)
42” Diagonal / 16:9 Wide-Screen Aspect Ratio
Improved Panel Efficiency
Fully Integrated Bottom Speaker
Independent HDMI Inputs with the ability to accept a 1080p/24Hz signal

______

The problem with the monitor program is it doesn't adhere to all the rules of gui programming which includes window resizing. Guis were developed in order to help facilitate user control and the displaying of data and information. It's a fairly small and basic program I don't think it would be all that difficult for a programmer to add window re-sizing control to the program. 

For myself I've written more complicated gui programs to control different types of equipment. Windows re-sizing is normally a feature and function of GUI programming and doesn't normally require require additional code from the programmer. Different types of attributes can usually be modified for individual gui window objects, that includes the behavior of user windows.

If for some reason the programming language has limited window control functions. The programmer would then need to create their own functions code. If this is the case it would probably less difficult to port the code to another programming language. There are plenty available, both commercial and public domain. You could most likely easily use gui programming development from the 1990's - 2000's, when many programming languages transpired into GUI programming development.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Albert_ said:


> The cell settings configuration window is the screen that normally has problems even when the larger screens do not.
> 
> Which monitor is the 18" display? The pics are from a laptop?
> 
> Pro-940HD product brochure
> 
> High Definition XGA Resolution (1,024 x 768)
> 42” Diagonal / 16:9 Wide-Screen Aspect Ratio
> Improved Panel Efficiency
> Fully Integrated Bottom Speaker
> Independent HDMI Inputs with the ability to accept a 1080p/24Hz signal
> 
> ______
> 
> The problem with the monitor program is it doesn't adhere to all the rules of gui programming which includes window resizing. Guis were developed in order to help facilitate user control and the displaying of data and information. It's a fairly small and basic program I don't think it would be all that difficult for a programmer to add window re-sizing control to the program.
> 
> For myself I've written more complicated gui programs to control different types of equipment. Windows re-sizing is normally a feature and function of GUI programming and doesn't normally require require additional code from the programmer. Different types of attributes can usually be modified for individual gui window objects, that includes the behavior of user windows.



Yes from my 18" laptop. MCmonitor should allow maximizing windows. This is a basic program that for me, will just serve to put the firmware to date, if they manage to find a safe way. I hope I can put mine up to date before being made to FW1.09. It does not give much to make updates if we can not apply them. For now I'm still with FW1.02 and I live with a few flaws.

Edit: The monitor display is the Pioneer Elite listed above.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes from my 18" laptop. MCmonitor should allow maximizing windows. This is a basic program that for me, will just serve to put the firmware to date, if they manage to find a safe way. I hope I can put mine up to date before being made to FW1.09. It does not give much to make updates if we can not apply them. For now I'm still with FW1.02 and I live with a few flaws.



The program requires more than minimizing and maximizing a window. They should have included a window resizing function, which is a basic part of gui programming.

The program was written for more than to update firmware. Firmware update programming use to be stand alone non gui type programming. Earlier PC bios, you would normally be required to boot to a floppy drive to perform a bios update. Some types of equipment often wasn't able to update from Windows because it needed to access basic levels of an operating system in order to access a bios.

MC3000 monitor is written primarily for access and control as well as display real-time data. This type of monitoring and control has become fairly common within the industries of different types of equipment. Though it's good to be able to have user control without a PC the charger's LCD and menu system is somewhat limited. I believe programming, user control, diagnostics, analysis plus battery monitoring from a PC is beneficial and adds to the overall functionality for this type of equipment.

If you don't require analysis and monitoring normally a 4 bay ~$20.00 - ~$40.00 charger works just fine. You don't even really require an LCD if you have battery status indicators.

Here's a fairly basic pc app I use for a Tristar solar controller. It's simple and easy to use. Doesn't have real-time user control of the charger instead allows the user to download different charging configurations to the charger.

http://www.morningstarcorp.com/msview/

Real-time data display (user configurable of what data is displayed)

Battery Voltage
Battery Sense Voltage
Array/Load Voltage
Charge Current
Load Current
Battery Voltage (slow)
Heatsink Temperature
Battery Temperature
Target Voltage
Ah (Resettable)
Ah (Total)
Hourmeter
Alarms identified by self-diagnostics. 
Faults identified by self-diagnostics.
Settings Switches
Control Mode, [Charge, Load, Diversion, Lighting].
Control State/Load State [Night, Fault, Bulk, PWM, etc].
PWM Duty Cycle - from 0% to 100%.
Kilowatt Hours (Cumulative)
Minimum battery voltage measured by the controller over the past 24hrs. Updated every 24hrs.
Maximum battery voltage measured by the controller over the past 24hrs. Updated every 24hrs.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Albert_ said:


> The program requires more than minimizing and maximizing a window. They should have included a window resizing function, which is a basic part of gui programming.
> 
> The program was written for more than to update firmware. Firmware update programming use to be stand alone non gui type programming. Earlier PC bios, you would normally be required to boot to a floppy drive to perform a bios update. Some types of equipment often wasn't able to update from Windows because it needed to access basic levels of an operating system in order to access a bios.
> 
> MC3000 monitor is written primarily for access and control as well as display real-time data. This type of monitoring and control has become fairly common within the industries of different types of equipment. Though it's good to be able to have user control without a PC the charger's LCD and menu system is somewhat limited. I believe programming, user control, diagnostics, analysis plus battery monitoring from a PC is beneficial and adds to the overall functionality for this type of equipment.
> 
> If you don't require analysis and monitoring normally a 4 bay ~$20.00 - ~$40.00 charger works just fine. You don't even really require an LCD if you have battery status indicators.
> 
> Here's a fairly basic pc app I use for a Tristar solar controller. It's simple and easy to use. Doesn't have real-time user control of the charger instead allows the user to download different charging configurations to the charger.
> 
> http://www.morningstarcorp.com/msview/



For my part, I would like prefer a more advanced mobile application to control all the parameters of the charger and I would be willing to pay for. All is wireless now. There are several things to develop on this charger but it should not be too much to ask for a $100 charger. It has to be profitable for designers and this type of charger is not intended for everyone. For the price, I am satisfied with it.

Edit: I just see your edit. I think you'd be a good candidate to develop a good program for this charger. 🙂


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I will say that the battery animation throws me off because it looks like the android charging battery when the phone is off lol.


----------



## Albert_

My programming is a bit rusty. Years ago I use to write small programs for my self in ASM (Assembly Language), BASIC, C, Pascal, C++, Borland Delphi and a few others.

If I had some documentation for the MC3000 perhaps I could cook up a utility control type application with a real-time display. I just don't know what sort of code that's being dealt with to access user control, plus there may be licensing and liability issues involved, as your not only accessing real-time data but the battery charger's controls that effect the batteries.

Perhaps an add-on could be created for the Data Explorer. Either way SkyRc would need to be willing to provide documentation and technical details in order to access various programmable functions, variables and attributes of the charger. Possibly the USB Link programming requires low bit level access through a serial chip. Most likely the USB PC-Link access is integrated into the firmware. The PC software then addresses parts of the firmware, similar to user control from the LCD screen. Only it talks to the charger, sending low level commands to the firmware that's eventually updated on the PC's display screen.

It's been a while since I've done any programming, and can't really do much without some sort of documentation.

The current MC3000_Monitor.exe has a problem under some resolutions of not being able to display all the information.

All that's required to make the program functional under all resolutions and monitors is to add a window resize function.


----------



## kappa7

Data explorer is an alternative open source software that support the MC3000.
You can try it: http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/

I haven't tried it yet but I think that at moment it can only log and display the data, but not program the charger.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Had anyone asked SkyRC if they want to share the specs to program the charger by USB?

The other odd thing I've noticed is that when plugged into my computer, if I unplug the power adapter the charger stays powered up, but says "Input voltage low"

Anyone else notice that?


----------



## Albert_

kappa7 said:


> Data explorer is an alternative open source software that support the MC3000.
> You can try it: http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/
> 
> I haven't tried it yet but I think that at moment it can only log and display the data, but not program the charger.



The Data Explorer is a good program and has features to display and analyze data. However there is no user control.

What any user software requires is some sort of device control, graphical display, monitoring with possible alarms, logging of data and the ability to save different configurations files that can be reloaded back into the same type of device. 

Data Explorer - MC3000 device

_Visualization preferences:_

Table, Digital & Analog

_Tabs:_

Graphics, Statistics, Table, Digital, Analog, File and Dataset Comment


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I just received the panasonic 18650B. The charger won't make contact on the + terminal. I hsve to say, this is tricky.



When I received this charger, I immediately tried to charge one of my flat-tops and was very much surprised to find this contact problem too. 

How can this so very hyped-up device miss on this very basic design requirement that even a $2 charger does not suffer from? 

I was so frustrated I immediately put it right back to its box and have not touched it until now, and that was already almost a month ago.

...and to read the cooling mis-design, 4 X 1A discharge inconsistency, etc. etc....simply too frustrating, and very disappointing, for me at least.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> The other odd thing I've noticed is that when plugged into my computer, if I unplug the power adapter the charger stays powered up, but says "Input voltage low"
> 
> Anyone else notice that?



Yes I've noticed too. 
The microcontroller take the power supply from the USB port (or the main power supply when present)


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tatasal said:


> When I received this charger, I immediately tried to charge one of my flat-tops and was very much surprised to find this contact problem too.
> 
> How can this so very hyped-up device miss on this very basic design requirement that even a $2 charger does not suffer from?
> 
> I was so frustrated I immediately put it right back to its box and have not touched it until now, and that was already almost a month ago.



I figured it out after closer look on the + end of the charger. If you look closely, you will notice that the upper part of the + terminal sticks out more than at the bottom. This would mean the cells would have to be slightly raised above the bay rather than on the bay. I am puzzled by this design though. This also means that the cell is not touching the temp sensor making "batt temp" useless. And lastly. The Panasonic 18650B. The + end is way too low along with the white ring cover being a bit thick. I've seen other unprotected cells that has the + slightly raised and the ring cover is thin. Have i should of known this before i would of gotten the other panasonic cells instead.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This battery works well and good for up to 10A, perfectly matched from all my testing, and although not a true flat top good enough for our needs....it's cheap for what it is.

http://liionwholesale.com/collectio...nyo-ncr18650ga-flat-top-1?variant=12534245700


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

MarioJP, several reliable suppliers have the Panasonic 18650 cells available with button top, both protected and non-protected. If they are rebranded cells, the price is usually higher. Mountain Electronics and IMR Batteries both have the button top Panasonic cells. Several Vape shops have flat to button top converters. If the positive contacts on the charger do not attract a magnet, you can also use small magnets to temporarily put on the batteries. I have several lights that cannot use flat top batteries, so I always buy button top batteries.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tatasal said:


> When I received this charger, I immediately tried to charge one of my flat-tops and was very much surprised to find this contact problem too.
> 
> How can this so very hyped-up device miss on this very basic design requirement that even a $2 charger does not suffer from?
> 
> I was so frustrated I immediately put it right back to its box and have not touched it until now, and that was already almost a month ago.
> 
> ...and to read the cooling mis-design, 4 X 1A discharge inconsistency, etc. etc....simply too frustrating, and very disappointing, for me at least.



I ordered some thin magnets to solve this problem. I hope this does not will create another.

Agree with discharge inconsistency. It needs an external fan but this problem seems solved with the new batch. We will see.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> This battery works well and good for up to 10A, perfectly matched from all my testing, and although not a true flat top good enough for our needs....it's cheap for what it is.
> 
> http://liionwholesale.com/collectio...nyo-ncr18650ga-flat-top-1?variant=12534245700


Haha i was just looking at this cell not long ago. Guessi'll wait when its time to replace. I'm staying with 4 li-ion at a time. Especially after an ordeal yesterday lol.


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> If the positive contacts on the charger do not attract a magnet, you can also use small magnets to temporarily put on the batteries.



The positive ends of this charger is non-magnetic, so a magnet can be used if preferred. I seldom use my iCharger hobbycharger anymore because of the magnet hassle though, so overall my Opus still gets my nod among all my chargers.


----------



## Albert_

*SkyRC MC3000 monitor program - min max & resizing*

After searching around I found a temporary solution.

There is a program called AutoHotkey that is able to run scripts you create using keyboard short cuts.

Can be downloaded from https://autohotkey.com/download/

Once the program is installed (comes with it's own 32 or 64 bit installer)

There will be a desktop right mouse button menu item, under New > "Auto-hotkey Script".

After creating a new script that's saved to your desktop, you then select edit and add your own scripting.

Here's a scripting code that will toggle between maximized and unmaximized any focused window, by pressing ALT-F3 key combination.

!F3:: ;Maximize/Restore Window
WinGet MX, MinMax, A
If MX
WinRestore A
Else WinMaximize A
return

On my PC and monitor this scripts only has worked to maximize the main window while in a 1600 x 1200 resolution. I normally use a 1600 x 900, the main screen doesn't become fully maximize vertically and the lower portion is still cut-off, but now there is access to the cell configuration settings.

Here a routine that can be called to change a window to a specific size, however it doesn't actually resize and adjust the window content. 

You would call the routine, such as: ResizeWin(800,600) to resize an active windows to 800 (Width) x 600 (Height) 

ResizeWin(Width = 0,Height = 0)
{
WinGetPos,X,Y,W,H,A
If %Width% = 0
Width := W

If %Height% = 0
Height := H

WinMove,A,,%X%,%Y%,%Width%,%Height%
}

This is only a temporary solution for users who are having problems with window size. The MC3000 monitor programming could use some other functions and features as noted previously by others. Probably won't be too difficult to do a re-write and update.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC MC3000 monitor program - min max & resizing*



Albert_ said:


> After searching around I found a temporary solution.
> 
> There is a program called AutoHotkey that is able to run scripts you create using keyboard short cuts.
> 
> Can be downloaded from https://autohotkey.com/download/
> 
> Once the program is installed (comes with it's own 32 or 64 bit installer)
> 
> There will be a desktop right mouse button menu item, under New > "Auto-hotkey Script".
> 
> After creating a new script that's saved to your desktop, you then select edit and add your own scripting.
> 
> Here's a scripting code that will toggle between maximized and unmaximized any focused window, by pressing ALT-F3 key combination.
> 
> !F3:: ;Maximize/Restore Window
> WinGet MX, MinMax, A
> If MX
> WinRestore A
> Else WinMaximize A
> return
> 
> It's only a temporary solution for users who are unable to read the larger and smaller screens. The MC3000 monitor programming could use some other functions and features as noted previously by others. Probably won't be too difficult to do a re-write and update.



IF...THEN...ELSEIF...ELSE...it reminds me of old memories...🤔


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC MC3000 monitor program - min max & resizing*



gyzmo2002 said:


> IF...THEN...ELSEIF...ELSE...it reminds me of old memories...樂



It's basically a batch processor type of scripting written in C++ that can be compiled into an exe file. https://autohotkey.com/docs/Tutorial.htm  

You can probably do the same sort of code from Microsoft Windows Script Host (WSH). Under WSH the "Sendkeys" command is used to minimize, maximize and restore active windows. 

Depending on your video adapter and driver you may have a function that controls Aspect Ratio. My Intel Video driver includes a "Maintain Aspect Ratio" option, which effects the desktop and windows. Depending on the video resolution enabling or disabling may effect how the primary windows and graphs are displayed.

Update: After experimenting some more using various resolutions and settings (from the Intel video adapter utility) the 1600 x 900 video resolution now displays the cell configuration screen correctly, however the main screen is still too long.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC MC3000 monitor program - min max & resizing*

Is there any ware i can buy this charger shipped from the UK, or the EU, I dont want to pay 20% VAT + £8 import charges if i can help it.

Thanks

John.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tatasal said:


> When I received this charger, I immediately tried to charge one of my flat-tops and was very much surprised to find this contact problem too.
> 
> How can this so very hyped-up device miss on this very basic design requirement that even a $2 charger does not suffer from?
> 
> I was so frustrated I immediately put it right back to its box and have not touched it until now, and that was already almost a month ago.
> 
> ...and to read the cooling mis-design, 4 X 1A discharge inconsistency, etc. etc....simply too frustrating, and very disappointing, for me at least.



not cool

nuff said

moving on


----------



## gyzmo2002

Who are you talking to?

Edit: Citation deleted as it was not addressed to me and was changed later.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

don't worry, not to you


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> don't worry, not to you



A citation errors happen occasionally. Even if it was addressed to someone else, it's all in your honor to have it corrected. Have a nice Sunday.🙂


----------



## bosko90

a few days ago I wrote to hkequipment about charger. they told me that they have chargers with CE label and v1.03. Ok I purchease and pay the charger, but after that in my purchease history is nothing  all I have is e-mail about buying.  After that i wrote to HK and I didn't hear from them nothing. I know that they have NY now. What is your experience with them? I'm scared of losing money.
(sorry for english)


----------



## angerdan

*SkyRC MC3000 App*

The app needs Android 4.3, so dont run on my Android 4.2 smartphone.
Who can send me the apk-file of the programm version 1.0 for Android?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC MC3000 App*

Just curious if the direction of airflow from the fan really matters. I noticed that the second batch that the airflow has been reversed. according to the skyrc site images. I could of sworn that before it was the other way around lol.. This is a minor thing right?


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC MC3000 App*

MarioJP, the fan blowing upward improves cooling. It really only makes a difference when discharging four Li-Ion batteries at 1A. It eliminates the current reduction that sometimes previously occurred. Does your latest charger have the FCC/CE label on the back? If you look at the fan thru the vent holes, can you tell if the rotor side is against the vent holes? The motor side has a label, the rotor side does not. If the fan blows upward, the rotor side is against the vent holes.. 

With the upward blowing fan, the fan blades rotate counterclockwise when viewed thru the vent holes with the charger upside down. The original fan direction is fine for all operations except discharging four Li-Ion batteries at maximum discharge current. The fan is not even required most of the time.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It does has the FCC/CE label. I do not see a label anywhere on the fan through the vent. 

Update: Just checked the direction of airflow. The fan blows air out through the vent on both chargers


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

a fan has a label side and a blank rear side. the wiring is on the label side.

the fact that i can see some red cable on your photo means the we are facing the label side on the photo, which is covered by the grille.

label side facing the grille means that air is blown into our face.

you like it?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> a fan has a label side and a blank rear side. the wiring is on the label side.
> 
> the fact that i can see some red cable on your photo means the we are facing the label side on the photo, which is covered by the grille.
> 
> label side facing the grille means that air is blown into our face.
> 
> you like it?



So is this is a mistake or a last minute changes? The air is blowing downward and the grille is the intake i believe.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

yes 

Tip, how to identify fan blow direction by mere visual inspection:

0) charger unplugged
1) face the bottom of the charger
2) shine with a flashlight on the fan grille to get a look at the shaping of the fan blades
3) in you mind try to follow the shaping in centripetal direction. imagine a ladybird traveling along that line in a tiny car heading towards bullseye and you're overseeing the itinerary from bird's eye view. lulz.
4) if the centripetal path is concave, then it means that the fan will blow upwards when the charger gets plugged






The flashlight is Nitcore AA/14500 light with stock XP-G R5. Very good.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is it just of matter of turning the fan around?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

is not that trivial


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If you are worried about turning the fan around yourself, don't. It's easy. Took 5 minutes max. 

6 screws a small blade to cut the glue and small flat head to pop the fan out and flip it over. I scraped off the old glue and applied my own one it was popped in. 

Just flip it over keeping the cable coming out the same side. 

I used some electronics glue to hold it in but it wasn't going anywhere without it. I just assumed it might cut down on some vibration or something. Otherwise, I'm not sure why they used it in the first place. 

Waiting for my glue to dry and I'm back in business.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Last comment. I forgot to mention that when you put it back together it is going to feel like something is out of place inside because it won't sit flush under its own weight. 

You basically have to hold it shut and start tightening the screws. Some brackets on the inside of the bottom case are holding the innards in place under a small amount of compression. Everything still works, just wanted to let you know so you don't wonder if you screwed something up.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

so you haven't tested the fan yet, plugged? :naughty:

boses erwachen 

guys, wait for _my _documentation of the mod. don't go ahead.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I guess my next question is. How much of a difference will this make?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

10 degrees ?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The fact that it is the same on the 2nd charger. That's a double dam.. Here i thought having the air going in the grille would cool things faster as the air rushing in temp drops. But i guess not.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tatasal said:


> When I received this charger, I immediately tried to charge one of my flat-tops and was very much surprised to find this contact problem too.
> 
> How can this so very hyped-up device miss on this very basic design requirement that even a $2 charger does not suffer from?
> 
> I was so frustrated I immediately put it right back to its box and have not touched it until now, and that was already almost a month ago.
> 
> ...and to read the cooling mis-design, 4 X 1A discharge inconsistency, etc. etc....simply too frustrating, and very disappointing, for me at least.



It is still a decent charger. Us early adopters(beta testers of sorts) should expect some issues of some kind. That is just the nature of being a pre-ordering early adopter. I was hoping that most issues would be software related and could be sorted out with firmware updates. Unfortunately the issues of some 18650 flattops not fitting very well, _*and*_ not being able to discharge 18650s at 1A are hardware issues and we will just have to live with them. Maybe SkyRC will throw us a bone and give us a price break on a second unit or something. 

Regarding having to charge some 18650 flat tops high in the holders: Does the temp sensor matter much with Li-ions? I know it is part of the Nimh charging algorithm but is it critical for Li-ion? Or is there a safety issue also?

Edited for clarity- I have six of the NCR18650B unprotected cells that don't fit in the holders correctly. I have a few unprotected "flat tops" that fit fine.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I guess my next question is. How much of a difference will this make?


Re-read the last 5 pages of this thread!


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I guess my next question is. How much of a difference will this make?



Re-read my post #2200 above. *I would not attempt to reverse the fan. If you simply turn it over, the rotor does not have enough clearance and it will not rotate because it hits the case. You are likely to break the brackets that hold the fan.* It only makes a difference in one case mentioned in my earlier post. Discharging four Li-Ion batteries at .5A runs nice and cool. If you don't want to encounter current reduction, don't discharge four Li-Ion at more than .8A. I suggest limiting 1A discharge to 2 cells and 2A discharge to 1 cell.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> Regarding having to charge 18650 flat tops high in the holders: Does the temp sensor matter much with Li-ions? I know it is part of the Nimh charging algorithm but is it critical for Li-ion? Or is there a safety issue also?



I charged my panasonic at 1A. The cells were cold to the touch throughout the charging. But then again i had these cells charging in slots 1 and 4 on both the chargers.

I will say that when its time to replace the cells would suggest NCR18650GA cells instead of the B's. The + terminal is too flat and gets tricky with this charger.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I charged my panasonic at 1A. The cells were cold to the touch throughout the charging. But then again i had these cells charging in slots 1 and 4 on both the chargers.
> 
> I will say that when its time to replace the cells would suggest NCR18650GA cells instead of the B's. The + terminal is too flat and gets tricky with this charger.


It is not too big of a deal for me. I was just trying to determine the responsibility of the temp sensor during Li-ion charging and discharging. Positioning them up high and away from the sensor is mostly just a small nuisance. It does take the sensor out of the process. What effect does this have?


Regarding the fan situation. On the rare occasions that I discharge four Li-ions at 1A, I will just use an external fan to blow on the charger. The only problem with that is the only fan I own at the moment is battery operated.:ironic:


----------



## dssguy1

kreisl said:


> so you haven't tested the fan yet, plugged? :naughty:
> 
> boses erwachen
> 
> guys, wait for _my _documentation of the mod. don't go ahead.



Sorry, didn't wait. And I do need to add a step to my basic instructions. 

Like someone else said, the fan will barely hit the frame if flipped around and make an annoying sound. 

I remedied it by pushing it back a fraction of a mm. Then I decided to just cut out the pointless grill and everything works fine. Just don't stick your hands under the charger while it is turning or you will get a minor annoyance on your fingertip.


----------



## kreisl

dssguy1 said:


> Then I decided to just cut out the pointless grill and



oki. my mod is less invasive. imo.

:thinking:


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I am just going to leave it as is. Hasn't been an issue so far. Should i need to discharge at 1A. Slots 1 and 4 on both for Li-ions. See, problem solved lol


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I guess my next question is. How much of a difference will this make?


Mine almost make it with fan reversed, but start to degre the discharging in two of the slots after 14min and 85degres celsius with four 18650. 
It´s better then before I think, but not worth it because the fan touch the grill and some work to sand the grill to get the space. 
I clean the rails from grease when I had it apart and drilled holes and mount two banana sockets on the left side connected to slot one to charge whatever fits the menu.




[/IMG]

Edit:
Picture added with the bananas. Not the prettiest, but good space behind and it works


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> Mine almost make it with fan reversed, but start to degre the discharging in two of the slots after 14min and 85degres celsius with four 18650.
> It´s better then before I think, but not worth it because the fan touch the grill and some work to sand the grill to get the space.
> I clean the rails from grease when I had it apart and drilled holes and mount two banana sockets on the left side connected to slot one.


Yeah. I really do not want to take it apart; yet alone, both of them because of a fan.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> Mine almost make it with fan reversed, but start to degre the discharging in two of the slots after 14min and 85degres celsius with four 18650.
> It´s better then before I think,


So your charger has now the fan blowing upwards? And you're saying that your charger still degre the discharging? That's unusual.
On my unit the temp doesn't reach 85°C at full discharge load. My room temperature is 20-25°C.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> So your charger has now the fan blowing upwards? And you're saying that your charger still degre the discharging? That's unusual.
> On my unit the temp doesn't reach 85°C at full discharge load. My room temperature is 20-25°C.


I will do a new test tomorrow with the charger on the floor (22°C), I have 25°C inside where the charger is and it´s not unfair really.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Now going back on the contact issue. Is it really an issue or are they some cells that are too low?. One thing i am learning in the li-ion world. There seems to be no standards when it comes to unprotected cells. I don't know.


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Now going back on the contact issue. Is it really an issue or are they some cells that are too low?. One thing i am learning in the li-ion world. There seems to be no standards when it comes to unprotected cells. I don't know.



As long as the unprotected cells that you use come from the major manufacturers like Panasonic, LG, Samsung, Sanyo and Sony, they are all 18mm in diameter, as the first two numbers of the *18*650 cell. There is no cell from these manufacturers that are "too low" or smaller or bigger in diameter. It is the design of the positive end of this charger that is not "unprotected, flat-top cell friendly". Owners of this charger see it when you put an unprotected cell flush into the bay, no way it can make proper contact.

Btw, these major manufacturers only make unprotected, flat-top cells, and very much subjected to very strict safety and dimension standards, and any kind of protection installed later are from third-party persons/entities, and this is where there is NO standard.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Tatasal

The Panasonic/Sanyo flat tops, the NCR18650GA, works perfectly in this charger and they are unprotected.

http://liionwholesale.com/collectio...nyo-ncr18650ga-flat-top-1?variant=12534245700

Many others unprotected also work fine


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> Mine almost make it with fan reversed, but start to degre the discharging in two of the slots after 14min and 85degres celsius with four 18650.
> It´s better then before I think, but not worth it because the fan touch the grill and some work to sand the grill to get the space.
> I clean the rails from grease when I had it apart and drilled holes and mount two banana sockets on the left side connected to slot one to charge whatever fits the menu.
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]
> 
> Edit:
> Picture added with the bananas. Not the prettiest, but good space behind and it works



Really cool idea!


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Tatasal
> 
> The Panasonic/Sanyo flat tops, the NCR18650GA, works perfectly in this charger and they are unprotected.
> 
> http://liionwholesale.com/collectio...nyo-ncr18650ga-flat-top-1?variant=12534245700
> 
> Many others unprotected also work fine



Would consider this for my next future purchase. So should i get magnet battery spacers for the current cells any other flat to button adapters?


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Tatasal
> 
> The Panasonic/Sanyo flat tops, the NCR18650GA, works perfectly in this charger and they are unprotected.
> 
> http://liionwholesale.com/collectio...nyo-ncr18650ga-flat-top-1?variant=12534245700
> 
> Many others unprotected also work fine



The unprotected, flat-tops that I am referring to is exactly *65mm *long. 

Your link has a length of *66.8mm*, and while still classified by the dealer as flat-top, it is not a true, 18*65*0 (length-wise) cell, but an unprotected "*modified flat-top*", and did not come from the factory like that.

Your link can be considered as a "wide button top" already, yet will also be considered a flat-top, but because of its slight, 1.4mm protruding top, it can already make contact with the MC3000's positive end.

Typical example of the 18650 I am referring to: 
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1420/10004185/1659700-authentic-sony-us18650vtc5-3-6v-2600mah

And the Flat-top, yet Unprotected, aftermarket cover-cap available (that added to the length of the cell in your link):
https://www.fasttech.com/products/1425/10012817/2157806-stainless-steel-flat-top-cover-cap-for-18650

And a variety of tops available in the aftermarket:
https://www.fasttech.com/category/1425/battery-parts-accessories/-/p/4?f=-


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> not cool
> 
> nuff said
> 
> moving on



?


----------



## dssguy1

Had a chance to test my flipped fan with grill removed and I am happy to report great results. 

15 minutes into a 4 18650 discharge of 1A each, the system stabilized at 62 degrees C and stayed there until completion. 

Quite a difference from the unit maxing out at 85 degrees and dropping the discharge amperage. 

I'm happy that my system will run noticeably cooler and require less fan speed even in less taxing operations.

Plus it was super easy and took 10 minutes.

It is 19 degrees C in my basement where the charger is located. Just FYI.


----------



## kreisl

dssguy1 said:


> Had a chance to test my flipped fan with grill removed and I am happy to report great results.
> 
> 15 minutes into a 4 18650 discharge of 1A each, the system stabilized at 62 degrees C and stayed there until completion.
> 
> Quite a difference from the unit maxing out at 85 degrees and dropping the discharge amperage.


hooray there we go. thanks for sharing!

(…)

i found another phenomenon:

My charger is connected thru PC front USB, and PCLS is logging stably (because of the brand-new short Samsung J5 USB cable?). So far so good. I noticed that PCLS stops graphing data a minute after i have switched on my hp printer/scanner/fax/copier machine which is connected thru PC rear USB.

I use my printer almost everyday and i am very glad and lucky to have detected this phenomenon. We could call it a bug, but it's unclear whose bug it is. PC hw? printer driver? WinXP OS? PCLS? mc3k hw? mc3k fw? wtf? And maybe other people on other systems cannot reproduce this observation?

So perhaps in the past the "PCLS stop graphing data" was NOT due to the quality of my Tomtom USB cable but due to me operating my USB printer and i never realized this interrelation. I've added this observation to the list, but as i said, nobody can tell for sure whose bug it is.


----------



## MarioJP

dssguy1 said:


> Had a chance to test my flipped fan with grill removed and I am happy to report great results.
> 
> 15 minutes into a 4 18650 discharge of 1A each, the system stabilized at 62 degrees C and stayed there until completion.
> 
> Quite a difference from the unit maxing out at 85 degrees and dropping the discharge amperage.
> 
> I'm happy that my system will run noticeably cooler and require less fan speed even in less taxing operations.
> 
> Plus it was super easy and took 10 minutes.
> 
> It is 19 degrees C in my basement where the charger is located. Just FYI.


Dam lol.


----------



## TeMpL

kreisl said:


> hooray there we go. thanks for sharing!
> 
> (…)
> 
> i found another phenomenon:
> 
> My charger is connected thru PC front USB, and PCLS is logging stably (because of the brand-new short Samsung J5 USB cable?). So far so good. I noticed that PCLS stops graphing data a minute after i have switched on my hp printer/scanner/fax/copier machine which is connected thru PC rear USB.
> 
> I use my printer almost everyday and i am very glad and lucky to have detected this phenomenon. We could call it a bug, but it's unclear whose bug it is. PC hw? printer driver? WinXP OS? PCLS? mc3k hw? mc3k fw? wtf? And maybe other people on other systems cannot reproduce this observation?
> 
> So perhaps in the past the "PCLS stop graphing data" was NOT due to the quality of my Tomtom USB cable but due to me operating my USB printer and i never realized this interrelation. I've added this observation to the list, but as i said, nobody can tell for sure whose bug it is.


Its low quality cable problem!!!! (Replace primer cable.or any other .... With quality one... And it will be ok...)


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> I will do a new test tomorrow with the charger on the floor (22°C), I have 25°C inside where the charger is and it´s not unfair really.


Charger on the floor test and reversed fan. 4x18650 floor temp 22.7°C. The system temp never reached 85°, 83°C at the most. 
When I had it apart I puched the sensors closer to the alu heat sink, maybe my register a slightly higher temp then before, don´t know. 
Problem solved anyway :thumbsup:


----------



## kreisl

TeMpL said:


> Its low quality cable problem!!!!



all right 
i am still waiting for my premium cable from FT and GB.

( and my observation wiv USB printer is also tru! :nana: )


----------



## kappa7

kreisl said:


> hooray there we go. thanks for sharing!
> 
> (…)
> 
> i found another phenomenon:
> 
> My charger is connected thru PC front USB, and PCLS is logging stably (because of the brand-new short Samsung J5 USB cable?). So far so good. I noticed that PCLS stops graphing data a minute after i have switched on my hp printer/scanner/fax/copier machine which is connected thru PC rear USB.
> 
> I use my printer almost everyday and i am very glad and lucky to have detected this phenomenon. We could call it a bug, but it's unclear whose bug it is. PC hw? printer driver? WinXP OS? PCLS? mc3k hw? mc3k fw? wtf? And maybe other people on other systems cannot reproduce this observation?
> 
> So perhaps in the past the "PCLS stop graphing data" was NOT due to the quality of my Tomtom USB cable but due to me operating my USB printer and i never realized this interrelation. I've added this observation to the list, but as i said, nobody can tell for sure whose bug it is.



In my case the PCLS has stopped graphing data only one time and it was when I've plugged and then unplugged an USB3 memory stick (I don't know exactly the timing, if it was when I've plugged or unplugged the usb stick). 
Maybe there is some correlation...
I use a samsung original USB cable (quite short) plugged on the rear of the pc, so the connection should be optimal.


----------



## Zanders

kreisl said:


> all right
> i am still waiting for my premium cable from FT and GB.
> 
> ( and my observation wiv USB printer is also tru! :nana: )


Find 2 usb-sticks that makes the MC3000 monitor to freeze when I plug and unplugg them. The sqverrel is right, maybe it´s a bug after all, strange. With printer and some sticks, no problem. 
Edit:Have tested 3 cables now, same problem with some sticks, the graph freezes.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

After reading abut the fan issue it does indeed makes a difference. Oh well.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

On my side, if I use the USB charger port and Bluetooth (application) together, PCLS stop logging. When I close the Bluetooth PCLS continues. It must be written somewhere that this is normal with this charger.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> After reading abut the fan issue it does indeed makes a difference. Oh well.


Why?
Do you discharge 4 x 18650 all the time?

I can't believe what a mountain/molehill has been made of this issue.

I get that it's disappointing the charger has this "flaw" but to me the AAA contact issue is a bigger one.

Both "issues" have easy fixes though. So they're only very minor flaws.

Re-read HKJs review everyone and realise how far the positive aspects of this charger outweigh the minor flaws the first release of it have.

Or buy another version in a years time when these little niggles are fixed. I'm sure more little issues will be discovered before this thread goes quiet.


----------



## dssguy1

TJH, just remain calm. If we weren't talking about the issues they would never get fixed. 

I don't see "very" many people saying they don't like the charger. 

I brought up the AAA issue more than 1.5 months ago so nothing is new with your comment of it being a problem. If nobody said anything, how likely do you think all these issues would be fixed? I don't.

I'm only commenting that a very easy flip of the fan (and minor grill removal) solves the problem completely for myself. So instead of having my charger run hotter even when only discharging a couple batteries, it will run much much cooler. 

Imo, some people have gone overboard with all their adjustments to fix the "issue". Laptop coolers, dual larger fans, etc.


----------



## MarioJP

tjh said:


> Why?
> Do you discharge 4 x 18650 all the time?
> 
> I can't believe what a mountain/molehill has been made of this issue.
> 
> I get that it's disappointing the charger has this "flaw" but to me the AAA contact issue is a bigger one.
> 
> Both "issues" have easy fixes though. So they're only very minor flaws.
> 
> Re-read HKJs review everyone and realise how far the positive aspects of this charger outweigh the minor flaws the first release of it have.
> 
> Or buy another version in a years time when these little niggles are fixed. I'm sure more little issues will be discovered before this thread goes quiet.



Its not that big of a deal considering i probably won't be discharging 4 Li-ions cell all at once, this would be a rare thing and set a program to discharge only in case i missed the final readings. I have yet to test out Refresh. I keep reading something about not saving the final results or saves the charge capacity as the final results. And as for the contact issue. Managed to deal with it and when its time to replace the cells. I now know which cells to get next time. I have had no issues with AAA's. This is a really great charger. Most flexible one at that, not even the Opus is that flexible. Judging from the LCD it is probably using the same program functionality that is found in the La crosse and the IQ except that it supports Li-ions. this whole 250/500 350/700 500/1000 is getting old lol. So glad that the MC3000 is not set up like that.


----------



## gyzmo2002

MarioJP said:


> I have yet to test out Refresh. I keep reading something about not saving the final results or saves the charge capacity as the final results.



I asked for that. On the charger, at the end, it displays the discharge capacity. In the *application, we have the charge capacity. The charger could be able to display the charge/discharge capacity alternatively and the application too. When you know it and you need the charge and discharge capacity, use both device or PCLS to overcome this "flaw".

Edit: In iOS application, don't know if it is the same with android.


----------



## kreisl

it's listed FIXED, TESTED in the list


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I sometimes wonder if he people posting in this thread are also actually reading it.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> it's listed FIXED, TESTED in the list



Thank you.[emoji106]


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I sometimes wonder if he people posting in this thread are also actually reading it.



I wonder what is the utility of this kind of remark ... to change habits ? If that's right, you're dreaming .


----------



## Capolini

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Wow!! You recieved a lot of replies/interest *kreisl!* 

Now I need to read the thread!,,,at least the most important parts.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Capolini said:


> Wow!! You recieved a lot of replies/interest *kreisl!*
> 
> Now I need to read the thread!,,,at least the most important parts.


Here is a summary:

The charger is very good, flexible and customisable.

The first batch of chargers aren't as good at cooling as subsequent batches. This only matters if you're discharging 4 x 18650's at 1amp. You can put an external fan on the charger and this fixes the problem.

Some battery types have a few issues making contact correctly. You can fix this but then the batteries might not be touching the temp sensor.

The Windows app is very poor, can't be resized. 3rd party app is available but can only monitor, not program the charger.

The Android and iOS apps are pretty poor.

A new firmware 1.04 will be released "soon" that fixes many of the (minor) discovered bugs and issues with v1.02/1.03



What'd I miss?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> What'd I miss?



Manual? Engrish?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> What'd I miss?



Since you asked, in 2250 posts, I think you've forgotten many. You should read this thread again and add them to your summary.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

For those of you who are computer experts, would it be possible to update the MC3000 using a micro-USB flash drive and files downloaded from the web on either a Mac or PC? My Korg Kronos Synthesizer uses this method and it works very well using a USB drive. The typical Korg update contains all the new manuals as well as the update files.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Here is a summary:
> 
> The charger is very good, flexible and customisable.
> 
> The first batch of chargers aren't as good at cooling as subsequent batches. This only matters if you're discharging 4 x 18650's at 1amp. You can put an external fan on the charger and this fixes the problem.
> 
> Some battery types have a few issues making contact correctly. You can fix this but then the batteries might not be touching the temp sensor.
> 
> The Windows app is very poor, can't be resized. 3rd party app is available but can only monitor, not program the charger.
> 
> The Android and iOS apps are pretty poor.
> 
> A new firmware 1.04 will be released "soon" that fixes many of the (minor) discovered bugs and issues with v1.02/1.03
> 
> 
> 
> What'd I miss?


Here you go! :thumbsup:


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> For those of you who are computer experts, would it be possible to update the MC3000 using a micro-USB flash drive and files downloaded from the web on either a Mac or PC? My Korg Kronos Synthesizer uses this method and it works very well using a USB drive. The typical Korg update contains all the new manuals as well as the update files.



That won't work as is because there will be no way of initiating the firmware upgrade without PCLS. PCLS is way of updating right now and to be honest I cannot see a way for the MC3000 to be updated via a plain old USB stick. The difference with the Korg Kronos is that the Kronos has its own Operating System and can initiate updates itself or via user request on the Kronos itself.


----------



## Rapster

Regarding flat-top Panasonics:

I've been charging flat-top unprotected NCR18650PD's without any issue whatsoever in the MC3000, four at a time, too. I haven't had any contact issues whatsoever.


----------



## MarioJP

Rapster said:


> Regarding flat-top Panasonics:
> 
> I've been charging flat-top unprotected NCR18650PD's without any issue whatsoever in the MC3000, four at a time, too. I haven't had any contact issues whatsoever.


But what about the B?? Just looked it up. Those look like it could work. The + is not too covered and maybe slightly raised.


----------



## morcegolas

kreisl said:


> all right
> i am still waiting for my premium cable from FT and GB.
> 
> ( and my observation wiv USB printer is also tru! :nana: )



Can you point out those premium cables kreisl, please?


----------



## kreisl

i haven't tested them yet. i will only point out after testing AND after testing positive. if test negative, then no. ha.


----------



## gyzmo2002

morcegolas said:


> Can you point out those premium cables kreisl, please?



A hint: Search for Braided Anker in this thread[emoji6]

Kreisl will be not guilty if they don't work.


----------



## Albert_

I've been looking around for a micro usb cable.

The only cables I was able to find with complete build specifcations run around ~$20.00 +/-.

Anker does provide a gauge specification.

https://www.anker.com/products/A7115011

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321878318798?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

( 28 / 21 AWG data and power wires.)

Anker also produces a micro usb cable with Anker Kevlar construction: https://www.anker.com/products/A8133012

Other USB cables found from this review: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-micro-usb-cable/

Monoprice - 6ft USB 2.0 A Male to Micro 5pin Male 28/24AWG Cable w/ Ferrite Core (Gold Plated) - comes in various lengths up to 15 feet.

6' cable: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030307&p_id=5458&seq=1&format=2

3' cable: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5457

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003L18S0E/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Reading comments of the review http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-micro-usb-cable/

You might want to note: some usb cable users have reported problems with the micro B connector becoming loose after some use. It's difficult to determine from their comments if the problem is actually with the usb cable or the device usb connector. 

Problems with USB isn't always the fault of the cable. Some USB devices may not be 100 percent compatible with all PC usb hardware. I've had USB devices with problems maintaining a consistent connection to a PC, where conflict behavior indicated to be between the PC's usb controller / drivers and the device's USB hardware and/or firmware.

I think conflicts potentially can also exist between connected usb devices, as the same hardware controller and drivers normally manages all the connected usb devices to a PC.

I haven't seen much in the way of testing usb cables other than for charging and data rates. Some users have reported problems with their micro-B connectors becoming loose. *** It appears part of the problem is some micro-b connections have problems enduring the same amount of stress from a cable's (vertical & horizontal) movement that doesn't normally effect USB - A and USB - B connections. Additional care may be required when using a Micro-B cables. 

Smaller USB connectors are primarily designed for smaller devices such as smartphones, digital cameras, game controllers, etc. Much of the USB cabling has become lighter and more flexible, using woven jacketing (similar cabling used for game controllers) produce less stress on a USB connector. However sometimes wire quality is sacrificed and cables fail prematurely. I notice some of the lesser expensive USB cables may not be using stranded wire and/or poor quality wire. Solid wire isn't really acceptable for cabling that require alot of movement and normally used were cabling is permanently mounted. Braided wire is suppose produce better conductivity than solid. Higher strand count dc cables are often used where amperes become an issue. 

If your having problems with a Micro-B connection becoming loose, you may want to consider another type type of usb cable, such as one using a 90 deg. Micro-B connection, http://www.l-com.com/usb-angled-usb-cable-straight-a-male-down-angle-micro-b-male-10m or right angle http://www.l-com.com/usb-right-angle-usb-cable-straight-a-male-to-right-angle-mini-b5-male (cable tie or secure cord near micro usb connection)

Cable holders and ties are used on all types of equipment to secure power and data lines. Installing a clip near your equipment's usb jack helps to reduce stress on the connection. 

e.g. Panduit p/n ACC62-A-C (Adhesive Backed)






http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000S6LJAQ/?tag=cpf0b6-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DU673R4/?tag=cpf0b6-20

___

Older serial cables using DB connectors didn't normally have connector problems. The serial cabling would wear out long before their DB plugs which rarely if ever exhibited any problems. 

_More links:

_*USB cables and information about usb cable construction*

http://www.l-com.com/usb?cmp=topmenu

*Durable microUSB cable?*

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=26262897

*Top 26 Best USB Cables of 2016 Reviews*

http://www.allbesttop10.com/top-10-best-usb-cables/

*Adapters*

http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=5093

http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3966

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Micro-Mini-Adapter-Cable/dp/B008635BA2

http://www.gearbest.com/cables-adapter/pp_21190.html

*DYI Cables

*https://www.adafruit.com/
____

*Magnetic micro usb cable*. Descriptions state it's good for charging and data transfer. *???

*http://www.wsken.net/productsinfo.asp?id=30

Two versions: Ver 1 & Ver 2 

http://www.gearbest.com/samsung-cables-adapters/pp_261495.html?vip=105193

http://www.gearbest.com/samsung-cables-adapters/pp_261494.html?vip=105194


http://gizmodo.com/a-simple-magnetic-adapter-gives-your-charging-cables-ma-1718989721


----------



## chemEJoe

Hi, I'm new to this thread and want to thank you all for your fine posts. I read everything to about page 45 so far, and also checked out HKJ's review of this and many other chargers.

I had bought a cheapo Solarstorm 2x LED to use while riding in winter, having gotten the high cholesterol warning. Then I realized oops, I might have a grenade in my garage. So, I started to read BLF, HKJ's reviews, and this site.

I ordered my SkyRC MC-3000 from GB at the end of Jan and now it's 2/9 and the tracking number for USPS says it's within 30 miles. Wohoo! I am looking forward to getting it in the next few days.

With first time buyer promo, I got it for $85 USD. The charger tracking number worked fine for China and then transferred to USPS tracking aok. 

I did order NCR18650Bs Protected before that, from GB, and shipping for that and the solarstorm battery case has a tracking number that doesn't give much info and does not transfer to USPS. Someone here posted batteries were harder to get from GB, so maybe it will be about a week behind though I ordered that a week before.

I'll come back and report so future buyers can calibrate their waiting period, etc.

Thank you again, for all the posters who know this stuff, Kreisl, billcushman, HKJ, and too many to list but your work here, your sharing really is great. I wanted to join, and I hope I can contribute as I learn how to use this charger and how to use these batteries safely.

What I love about this community is that you all are old school, in that you use your efforts and brains to use these tools and toys well. I grew up fixing cars with my dad, and these days, everyone just buys things and throws them away. I love that we can source components from China, directly from ebay sometimes, and come up with safer, better products than the ones we walk into a store to buy, where the products aren't as good and are more dangerous (with respect to Li Ion battery and usage). I realized ... my $20 drone toy for my son has a pretty risky little battery there lol. Thanks to you all and the web community.


----------



## angerdan

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> The Android and iOS apps are pretty poor.


Doesn't work on Android <4.3 devices.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> TESTED - bug: protection reset feature may not work in a slot after a finished charge program (UNCONFIRMED)




What do you mean with "TESTED" and "(UNCONFIRMED)"?

Have you understood the bug and has been corrected in fw 1.04?
Thanks


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

i have understood your observation, so i tested the function under the given conditions. the function works okay on my sample, i was not able to confirm your bug. maybe you could post a clear, reproducible step-by-step procedure which leads to the bug, something like (fictive example)

+++++++++++++fiction on++++++++++++++++
_1) i'm on fw 1.02; in GSV do a FACTORY RESET, depress ENTER to save and return to TOV
2) remove all batteries, unplug charger from mains, wait 10sec
3) re-power the charger, reboot to TOV
4) save this program: < NiMH, Charge, 1.00A, etc > under PROGRAM[01] to all Slots
5) insert 1pc NiMH battery in a slot, say in #3, and click ENTER to Start All (=start [01] in #3)
6) when [01] has finished in #3, remove de battery from #3; all slots are empty now
7) insert a 0V protected LiIon battery in a slot, say in #3. TOV shows "NO BATTERY" as expected.
8) click SNB#3 to release the tripped protection of the LiIon battery, or press'n hold SNB#3 for this effect.
9) i was expecting that the voltage would jump from NO BATTERY to say 2.8V. however i am observing a bug: yadda etc_
+++++++++++++fiction off++++++++++++++++

:candle:


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

A bit off topic , below is a link to a travel charger for dedicated digital camera battery's, I just bought one and need to let others know, very cheap. 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-charger-with-lcd-display-cheap-price.787986/

John.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I ran the test again to be sure if whether or not there is an is a issue with the fan.






This pretty much sums it up. Confirmed on both chargers.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> i have understood your observation, so i tested the function under the given conditions. the function works okay on my sample, i was not able to confirm your bug. maybe you could post a clear, reproducible step-by-step procedure which leads to the bug, something like...
> :candle:



Ok maybe I've found why you haven't found the bug. It's present only after running a NIHM charge program (with LION no problem).

Before to go in detail:
I find that the protection reset feature very useful not only with protected lion, but also with dead (0V) NIMH battery. If the battery is not short circuited, by holding for 20-60s the slot button the current pulses sent by the charger are enough to "wake up" the completely depleted battery until it's recognized by the charger. After that it's possible to start a normal charge cycle to try to revive the dead battery.

Now the bug in detail:
1) I'm on fw 1.02, advanced mode. I didn't do a factory reset (I will do it only if you still cannot reproduce the problem).
2) remove all batteries, unplug charger from mains, wait 10sec.
3) re-power the charger, reboot to TOV.
4) Test the protection reset feature: without any cell in the charger hold the slot 1 battery button. After a few seconds you will see that the protection reset kick on and the voltage repeatably pulse to about 5V and the slot LED blink RED-GREEN. It should works without any problem.
5) Now insert a nihm cell in slot 1 and program a charge with 1A, capacity cut off off, time cutoff off, dv -3mv, temp cutout 45°C, all other settings off (in any case they seem don't care, is only important to select a nimh charge program).
6) Start the program.
7) After 10s or more stop it with the stop button.
8) Remove the cell and wait until "NO BATTERY" is shown.
9) Now try the protection reset feature by holding the slot 1 button. Now it should NOT work, nothing happen.
10) The protection reset of the others 3 slots should work.
11) If you put a LION cell in slot 1, start a LION charge program and then stop it and remove the cell, the protection reset feature should start to work again.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Thanks for the detailed steps, can others try this too please?

( i am non-stop cycling my new batteries, hopefully tomorrow i'll have a chance to test your procedure )


----------



## Rapster

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kappa7 said:


> Ok maybe I've found why you haven't found the bug. It's present only after running a NIHM charge program (with LION no problem).
> 
> Before to go in detail:
> I find that the protection reset feature very useful not only with protected lion, but also with dead (0V) NIMH battery. If the battery is not short circuited, by holding for 20-60s the slot button the current pulses sent by the charger are enough to "wake up" the completely depleted battery until it's recognized by the charger. After that it's possible to start a normal charge cycle to try to revive the dead battery.
> 
> Now the bug in detail:
> 1) I'm on fw 1.02, advanced mode. I didn't do a factory reset (I will do it only if you still cannot reproduce the problem).
> 2) remove all batteries, unplug charger from mains, wait 10sec.
> 3) re-power the charger, reboot to TOV.
> 4) Test the protection reset feature: without any cell in the charger hold the slot 1 battery button. After a few seconds you will see that the protection reset kick on and the voltage repeatably pulse to about 5V and the slot LED blink RED-GREEN. It should works without any problem.
> 5) Now insert a nihm cell in slot 1 and program a charge with 1A, capacity cut off off, time cutoff off, dv -3mv, temp cutout 45°C, all other settings off (in any case they seem don't care, is only important to select a nimh charge program).
> 6) Start the program.
> 7) After 10s or more stop it with the stop button.
> 8) Remove the cell and wait until "NO BATTERY" is shown.
> 9) Now try the protection reset feature by holding the slot 1 button. Now it should NOT work, nothing happen.
> 10) The protection reset of the others 3 slots should work.
> 11) If you put a LION cell in slot 1, start a LION charge program and then stop it and remove the cell, the protection reset feature should start to work again.





kreisl said:


> Thanks for the detailed steps, can others try this too please?
> 
> ( i am non-stop cycling my new batteries, hopefully tomorrow i'll have a chance to test your procedure )



Okay, I've just tried this, but with a AAA NiMH and I used a smaller charge current, 500mA, and I used Slot #2.

I can confirm @kappa7's results; after charging a NiMH in a specific slot, the protection reset feature no longer works in that slot until power down/up.

Although the beeps (sounds) remain whilst pressing Slot button there is no current being applied to the slot and thus no reading on the screen. I checked with a DMM.

(DMM showed expected readings in the slots that still had protection reset working.)


----------



## millguy

MarioJP said:


> But what about the B?? Just looked it up. Those look like it could work. The + is not too covered and maybe slightly raised.



B's won't make contact without a small magnet or coil in between. At least on mine.


----------



## Meyer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



angerdan said:


> Doesn't work on Android <4.3 devices.



The App uses Bluetooth Low Energy, available in Android since Version 4.3. 
! Android OS versions prior 4.4 are out of Google-support (safety patches) !

The App V2.5 is operating here, with bugs.

*Bug #1:*
App will crash with Android language settings where decimal mark is decimal comma (","), as in Germany.

Preconditions:

MC3000 Hardware Version 1.4, Firmware Version 1.02 
Samsung Galaxy S5, Android 5.0 with german language setting 
MC3000 App V2.5 

Example: Editing a setup voltages will first be displayed with decimal dot, e.g. 4.20 V. After modifying or reentring the voltage will be displayed with decimal comma, e.g. 4,20V or 4,10V. On saving such a setting the app crashes immediately. Maybe during a text-to-number-conversion-routine.

Temporary workaround: Choose language setting with decimal dot ("."), e.g. English (United Kingdom) or English (United States). This is annoying in other apps (Mail, spreadsheet, ...).

*Bug #2:*
The app is congesting after some hours with occasionally inspecting voltage graphs. The app doesn't display "Details" for all slots or won't be responsive at all. Maybe caused by improper buffer and/or memory management.

Workaround: Terminate the app, terminate the app in android task manager, clear the app cache in android settings, restart the charger (power off, power on), start the app ...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks Meyer, the bug #1 was already reported in Android app v1.0 by Winne the maker of DEX and then submitted by me ~2 months ago. We have been seeing app updates since, which is good. Too bad that the bug is still there. 

I'll re-submit the 2 app bugs after CNY, no prob 



Rapster said:


> I can confirm @kappa7's results; after charging a NiMH in a specific slot, the protection reset feature no longer works in that slot until power down/up.
> 
> Although the beeps (sounds) remain whilst pressing Slot button there is no current being applied to the slot and thus no reading on the screen. I checked with a DMM.



Thanks kappa7 and Rapster, i was able to reproduce the bug, and submitted it to maker. It is very easy to reproduce, no FACTORY RESET needed, etc I've listed it under (k#27) and we should expect a fix in 1.04.

Very cute bug!!


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Thanks kappa7 and Rapster, i was able to reproduce the bug, and submitted it to maker. It is very easy to reproduce, no FACTORY RESET needed, etc I've listed it under (k#27) and we should expect a fix in 1.04.
> 
> Very cute bug!!



No problem, thank you for working hard to improve this excellent charger!

Glad that you appreciated this tasty bug.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

ProgressiveRC in Seattle WA now has MC3000s in stock for US buyers. They also have a listing on Amazon.


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Thanks Meyer, the bug #1 was already reported in Android app v1.0 by Winne the maker of DEX and then submitted by me ~2 months ago. We have been seeing app updates since, which is good. Too bad that the bug is still there.
> 
> I'll re-submit the 2 app bugs after CNY, no prob
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks kappa7 and Rapster, i was able to reproduce the bug, and submitted it to maker. It is very easy to reproduce, no FACTORY RESET needed, etc I've listed it under (k#27) and we should expect a fix in 1.04.
> 
> Very cute bug!!



You are very welcome!

This is how I imagine you spotting those bugs!


----------



## esiuda

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just received my unit today from HKequipment. Firmware 1.3 Hardware version 1.4 Ordered 2/3, received by Chicago post office on 2/5. Took to 2/11 to get to Channahon. (received by Channahon Post Office on 2/11 and delivered to me on 2/11)

Only minor problem I have is that part of my shipment is missing. I hope it is just a oop's, and not a problem.

UPDATE!!!!
I was off Friday, and when I returned to my office on Monday I found 2 emails from HKequipment that arrived just after I left the office on 2/11! They are taking care of the problem. I highly recommend them, both for the quick shipping of the charger, as well as the very fast response to my emails!


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



esiuda said:


> Just received my unit today from HKequipment. Firmware 1.3 Hardware version 1.4 Ordered 2/3, received by Chicago post office on 2/5. Took to 2/11 to get to Channahon. (received by Channahon Post Office on 2/11 and delivered to me on 2/11)
> 
> Only minor problem I have is that part of my shipment is missing. I hope it is just a oop's, and not a problem.


Which way does your fan blow?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just ordered high quality micro usb cables. Not taking any chances.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I just ordered high quality micro usb cables. Not taking any chances.



What cable did you order? The cable listed below is an excellent micro usb cable that works well with the MC3000.

Monoprice Premium USB to Micro USB Charge & Sync Cable 3ft- Black #9761


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> What cable did you order? The cable listed below is an excellent micro usb cable that works well with the MC3000.
> 
> Monoprice Premium USB to Micro USB Charge & Sync Cable 3ft- Black #9761




https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018IAXSS4/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Gold plated and 20AWG too.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



esiuda said:


> Just received my unit today from HKequipment. Firmware 1.3 Hardware version 1.4 Ordered 2/3, received by Chicago post office on 2/5. Took to 2/11 to get to Channahon. (received by Channahon Post Office on 2/11 and delivered to me on 2/11)
> 
> Only minor problem I have is that part of my shipment is missing. I hope it is just a oop's, and not a problem.



I received mine from GB in 12 days this week, FW 1.02 HW 1.4. Nothing missing. I paid $85 with their new customer promo that is on their landing page. 

If you order batteries, do it separately as it goes by a different carrier with much less tracking visibility. The charger is visable on tracking from China to the plane to the US no problem.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018IAXSS4/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> 
> Gold plated and 20AWG too.



Appears to be a good cable. 

One problem I have with some of the USB cables is their lack of a braided shield. High speed usb cables will use both a metal braid and foil as shielding. The braiding also adds additional strength to the cable. Low speed usb cables usb specs don't call for shielding. 

Another problem that exists is the Micro-b connector(s) wearing out. Some connectors only last short while before the usb connection becomes loose. This sort of problem for data line cables isn't really acceptable. For some devices you may loose important data, crash hard drives, cause system failures, etc.

Tronsmart site description: 

_*The combination of gold-plated connectors, bare copper conductors, and foil & braid shielding provides durability, *
*error-free data transmission, and fast charging speed. *
_
Apparently braiding and foil was left out of their USB cable construction pic.

http://www.tronsmart.com/tronsmart-mupp1-premium-usb-cables-3-pack-with-gold-connector








Good quality USB cables normally uses both braiding and foil


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Here is a test of various micro usb cables. Important design characteristics are shown in Altert's USB 2.0 illustration. The twisted pair for the data cable is very important. The best rated cable is the Monoprice standard cable.. 

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-micro-usb-cable/

The Monoprice 9761 cable I recommended is the Monoprice premium cable


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



chemEJoe said:


> I received mine from GB in 12 days this week, FW 1.02 HW 1.4. Nothing missing. I paid $85 with their new customer promo that is on their landing page.
> 
> If you order batteries, do it separately as it goes by a different carrier with much less tracking visibility. The charger is visable on tracking from China to the plane to the US no problem.



Can you verify if the fan is blowing air out the vent?

Thanks.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Can you verify if the fan is blowing air out the vent?
> 
> Thanks.



MarioJP ... sorry to have read about your probs with GB about 40 pages back. Had I known about the battery shipping (almost all their ways prohibit cylindrical batteries, so my batteries are now somewhere through Sweden. I'd say GB batteries are about 2-4 weeks), I would have done US MT Electronics I think. Anyway, I got lucky I was waiting for the end of Jan slug of chargers and sent a ticket to them and they let me know it was coming so I ordered and got it in 12 days. So far so good.

On fan test you want, let me ask ... if I just set the fan temp in settings to something v low, will it come on? I don't have Li Ion batteries to discharge for another 10 days. I can only test with NiMH. If I set it to low temp will it trigger the fan? Let me know and I will do the test for you. I'm just learning the thing and with old NiMH of unknown state, I've been only fooling with it and haven't done a run yet. I'm a newbie to battery charging, having been duped for years on simple chargers and just recycling batteries when they 'felt' old. So glad I found this enthusiast base.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



chemEJoe said:


> On fan test you want, let me ask ... if I just set the fan temp in settings to something v low, will it come on? I don't have Li Ion batteries to discharge for another 10 days. I can only test with NiMH. If I set it to low temp will it trigger the fan? Let me know and I will do the test for you. I'm just learning the thing and with old NiMH of unknown state, I've been only fooling with it and haven't done a run yet. I'm a newbie to battery charging, having been duped for years on simple chargers and just recycling batteries when they 'felt' old. So glad I found this enthusiast base.



You can set the fan to ON and it will be on all the time. A better way is to look at the fan blades with the charger upside down. If the blades rotate CCW the fan blows upward. If it rotates CW, the fan blows downward. Several pages ago in post #2204, Kreisl posted a drawing of the blade shape for each direction. A link to that drawing is below.

http://abload.de/img/del1ajspt.png


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If it helps this https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7mrfg9zt25n8vl/20160212_230048.jpg?dl=0 is from one that arrived from GB yesterday.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Minimoog said:


> If it helps this https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7mrfg9zt25n8vl/20160212_230048.jpg?dl=0 is from one that arrived from GB yesterday.



The picture does not show the edges of the fan blades clearly because of the focus and glare from flash. From what I can see it looks like your fan blows downward. It looks like the example on the right side of Kreisl's drawing.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

you could also deploy external USB fans, reversed, powered by the USB output of the charger 




http://abload.de/img/del1ajspt.png

http://abload.de/img/del2r5sqz.jpg

btw this weekend i'll submit my bug report for 1.04beita. 1.04 final should be bug-free, right?


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It's like the one on the left of the drawing - when I compare my older one with the newer version, the fan is now reversed.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Here is a test of various micro usb cables. Important design characteristics are shown in Altert's USB 2.0 illustration. The twisted pair for the data cable is very important. The best rated cable is the Monoprice standard cable..
> 
> http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-micro-usb-cable/
> 
> The Monoprice 9761 cable I recommended is the Monoprice premium cable



I had previously ordered three of the Monoprice Premium's at different lengths and also an Anker Premium with the woven jacket. After inspection both appear to be approx. the same quality. The Monoprice is slightly stiffer whereas the Anker is slightly more flexible using a nylon woven jacket. Both use 24AWG/2C power wires. 

At 3 feet of length a 20AWG/1C (7/32) would have .04419 fewer ohms of resistance

(7/32 or 19/32 stranded wire is commonly used with USB 2.0 cable)

(7/32) 24AWG/2C @ 3' = 0.0735 ohms
(7/32) 20AWG/2C @ 3' = 0.02931 ohms
(difference of .04419 ohms)

(19/32) 24AWG/2C @ 3' = 0.0702 ohms
(19/32) 20AWG/2C @ 3' = 0.02703 ohms
(difference of 0.04317 ohms)

Charging lithium batteries with a maximum of 4.2 volts. If the charging voltage is regulated the current should be slightly higher using a larger gauge wire.
__________

What may happen with some cables that are frequently inserted and pulled out is the two locking connector pins, used to secure the micro-b connector, weaken and stop working. The connector feels loose or falls outs. The pins can be bent back up using a toothpick or sharp object. Quality of USB connectors may vary between cable manufactures.

USB connectors primarily designed for easy insertion and extraction are not the best design as a more stationary connection.

One method used to secure USB cables is to use locking or panel mount USB cables. Locking USB cables are manufactured for USB A, B, C and Mini, however I haven't come across any locking Micro USB cables.






_____

My MC3000 hasn't arrived yet. I ordered a few days before CNY. Their support said some units are on back order. It may be sometime in March before the MC3000 charger is delivered.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> You can set the fan to ON and it will be on all the time.



Bill,

Thanks for your posts on this thread as I've learned a lot from them. This one thread is too long to easily find things for reference, so I guess I gotta go with memory. I'm on page 63 ha ha. 

GB source, end of Jan shipment, FW 1.02, HW 1.4:

Anyway, I checked the fan as you noted and it blows out toward my face as I have it upside down facing me. So I take it it's the original HW setup, and the reversing of the fan is still a good thing for my version if I want to reduce discharge temperature hikes or excursions. Let me know if I didn't understand right and that's what you and Mario needed.

Quick qs on NiMH since that's all I have to play with ... I'm doing Refreshes on what I have. Old and one set new some not even 1 cycle. On the old, I have some that charge for 10 mins and then discharge - does that mean that battery is gone, or will that initial current pulse method reset the battery? On the new ones, will doing one Refresh be ok (they are not LSD) to analyze capacity and then just use them to break in, or should I break_in with the MC? They are cheap Lenmars. I'm just playing around until I get Li Ions, learning the charger. No stakes. (I'm aware of the initial pulse bug written up here about NiMH charging and then trying to pulse. ok, I'll need to hard reboot to get that back if I charge a NiMH in that channel.).


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Now this is strange. So now its time to charge my li-ion cell after being used in the power bank. I put them in the charger. Charge rate 1A. I hit enter and all i see is 0.15A going into the cell???. I stopped the program and tried again. And again climbs up to 0.15A???.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> you could also deploy external USB fans, reversed, powered by the USB output of the charger



I was thinking of this and I guess the power to the fans will mean nothing to added load to the charger, right? I'm thinking that is the easiest solution though it's a manual process to come and set that up on discharge.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It starts slow when you have a very discharged battery. Wait a few minutes instead of panicking and pressing stop.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> It starts slow when you have a very discharged battery. Wait a few minutes instead of panicking and pressing stop.


I see what you mean now..thanks. This explains the mystery while phones sometimes starts chargimg slow and then rapidly speeds up in a few moments. Li-ion is a strange chemistry lol


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

ChemEJoe, the fan is only rarely required for all normal charger operation. Only when discharging four Li-Ion above .8A does the cooling performance become an issue. If you limit discharging four Li-Ion to only .5A the charger runs nice and cool. Discharging other batteries does not cause this problem. The total wattage when discharging is the *maximum cell voltage x discharge current x number of slots *in use. For the case that cause issues the calculation is *4.2 volts x 1.0 Amp x 4 slots = 16.8 watts*. This is higher than the 15 watt Discharge Power Specification of the MC3000.

If you limit four Li-Ion's to .5A discharge, the wattage is only 8.4 watts. At .8A discharge, the wattage is 13.44 watts. The reversed fan helps avoid current reduction when you exceed .8A. Lower discharge wattage is easier on the charger. The standard discharge current for Li-Ion is .2C. For a 3400mAh battery, that would be a discharge current of .68A = 11.424 watts. This will cause no current reduction with the original fan direction.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> ChemEJoe, the fan is only rarely required for all normal charger operation. Only when discharging four Li-Ion above .8A does the cooling performance become an issue. If you limit discharging four Li-Ion to only .5A the charger runs nice and cool. Discharging other batteries does not cause this problem. The total wattage when discharging is the *maximum cell voltage x discharge current x number of slots *in use. For the case that cause issues the calculation is *4.2 volts x 1.0 Amp x 4 slots = 16.8 watts*. This is higher than the 15 watt specified discharge capacity.


Thats what i did. sure it takes longer. But it works.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> ChemEJoe, the fan is only rarely required for all normal charger operation.
> 
> ...
> 
> The standard discharge current for Li-Ion is .2C. For a 3400mAh battery, that would be a discharge current of .68A = 11.424 watts. This will cause no current reduction with the original fan direction.



Thanks Bill! That's what I'll do then. Still futzing with my NiMH batteries because my Li Ions from GB are going through SWE. V interesting the state of my batteries. I have a pile of new and old for my son's toys. No wonder they seem so lousy ... they are lol. This is a fun forum, to try to understand what every household has and needs, to be green, cost effective, and just smart.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018IAXSS4/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> 
> Gold plated and 20AWG too.



MarioJP, have you received your cables? How do they work?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

http://goughlui.com/2014/10/01/usb-cable-resistance-why-your-phonetablet-might-be-charging-slow/

John.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> MarioJP, have you received your cables? How do they work?


I'll see when i get home. Amazon notified me that it has been delivered


----------



## DeJaVu

Got mine from Gearbest, ordered jan 18 shipped jan 19, received feb 9.
Can say that i had previous bad experiences with them, but this time i guess i have to thank the fuss made here and the bunch of you that cancelled orders from them  .

Very satisfied with the charger and the plethora of options it offers, but a 90$ charger not being able to charge flattops without fondling, now that grinds my gears.
A cheapo(compared to this one) VC4 has no problem with any battery i own, and this one works with 2 out of 10 i own.
One would think that after such long development period the beta testers would catch that one, and it would be fixed in the production version, but no.Alas

Not sure what all this talk is about premium cables , but mine logs with no problems with the first usb cable i had at hand(cheap 1A one that came with a e-cig VW Mod).
While PCLS works great, im having trouble with DEX detecting the charger. Does DEX by any chance not play good with Win10 ?


----------



## Albert_

DeJaVu said:


> Got mine from Gearbest, ordered jan 18 shipped jan 19, received feb 9.
> Can say that i had previous bad experiences with them, but this time i guess i have to thank the fuss made here and the bunch of you that cancelled orders from them  .
> 
> Very satisfied with the charger and the plethora of options it offers, but a 90$ charger not being able to charge flattops without fondling, now that grinds my gears.
> A cheapo(compared to this one) VC4 has no problem with any battery i own, and this one works with 2 out of 10 i own.
> One would think that after such long development period the beta testers would catch that one, and it would be fixed in the production version, but no.Alas
> 
> Not sure what all this talk is about premium cables , but mine logs with no problems with the first usb cable i had at hand(cheap 1A one that came with a e-cig VW Mod).
> While PCLS works great, im having trouble with DEX detecting the charger. Does DEX by any chance not play good with Win10 ?



What version firmware did your charger come installed with? The fan is blowing upwards towards the inside instead of down and out?

Micro-b cables are primarily designed for mobile hand held devices and are known to have problems. Many users use them for power and charging where data transfer may not be an issue. Care is required with frequent use and handling. There are two very small locking pins on the male connector that sometimes wear out or become bent down and are no longer able to secure the usb connection. 

The cables seem to work ok, with some precautions and potentially wear out prematurely. Because of their size are not always the best data cable choice for larger stationary devices and equipment.


----------



## DeJaVu

Albert_ said:


> What version firmware did your charger come installed with? The fan is blowing upwards towards the inside instead of down and out?
> 
> Micro-b cables are primarily designed for mobile hand held devices and are known to cause problems. Many users use them for power and charging where data transfer may not be an issue. Care is required with frequent use and handling. There are two very small connection pins on the male connector that sometimes wear out or become bent down and are no longer able to secure the usb connection.
> 
> The cables seem to work ok, with some precautions and potentially wear out prematurely. Because of their size are not always the best data cable choice for larger stationary devices and equipment.



Its the fan blowing down version, or as some here like to say , like god intended version . Firmware 1.02.


----------



## Albert_

DeJaVu said:


> Its the fan blowing down version, or as some here like to say , like god intended version . Firmware 1.02.



Ya I don't know which direction is better, my unit hasn't arrived yet. 

It's not as common to install a cooling fan on the bottom of a case. Most equipment a cooling fan is installed on the back side and blows out. It's often part of the PSU. I Have a couple ultra small form factor desktop PCs that builds up additional heat, two smaller fans are installed on the front with a larger PSU fan in the rear. Air entering the front flows across the electronics and motherboard into the PSU and then blown out.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'm still rocking 62-65 degrees Celsius, discharging 4 Li-ion at 1A. 

All I did was flip my fan and cut the grill out to reduce restriction. 

Some of the other guys are doing stuff that still runs the charger near 85 Celsius and seems a lot less simple than what I did in 5 minutes. 

Just my opinion, flip fan, cut grill, run way cooler, move on to a different problem.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Lithium batteries have problems taking a charge and producing output in sub zero temperatures. It's an issue with those emergency automobile battery banks, such as the Noco Genius battery bank / booster. These do work when not used in extreme cold environments. For emergency situations, people have been able to start and run their vehicle with a completely dead battery and also without out an automobile battery, only using a Lithium backup/booster battery bank.



*Battery Type *​ *Charge Temperature*​ *Discharge Temperature*​ *Charge Advisory*​


*Li-ion*​ 0°C to 45°C
(32°F to 113°F) –20°C to 60°C
(–4°F to 140°F) No charge permitted below freezing.
Good charge/discharge performance at higher temperature but shorter life.


*NiCd, NiMH*​ 0°C to 45°C
(32°F to 113°F) –20°C to 65°C
(–4°F to 149°F) Charge at 0.1C between –18°C and 0°C.
Charge at 0.3C between 0°C and 5°C.
Charge acceptance at 45°C is 70%. Charge acceptance at 60°C is 45%.


*Lead acid*​ –20°C to 50°C
 (–4°F to 122°F) –20°C to 50°C
(–4°F to 122°F) Charge at 0.3C or lessbelow freezing.
Lower V-threshold by 3mV/°C when hot.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

But then again, female giant pandas are reproductively viable for only 24 to 72 hours each year. 
So theres that.


----------



## bosko90

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I ordered my charger from HK 10 days ago.. and they told me: Yes, our stock now with CE and v1.03. About the cooling, we are not sure about the upgrade, but SkyRC said current v1.03


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just some comments on the Android App v2.5:

It is v cool.

Comments on the monitoring capabilities:

- Format for top Stop buttons at top not laid out properly for S3
- It will not start if WiFi is on (spinning ball)
- Going from main page to details works once, and you can press the channel buttons to see all the graphs. But, 2nd view of it ... you only get the channel for which you press before you get into the details (I think, not sure. It is only one channel graph, though). Workaround is to restart the App.
- the Details icons show AAA batteries when they are AA and AAA mix. Not sure if it's a standard icon set.

Apologies if this has already been posted.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Best to wait for new version that fixed this problem/problems.

John.


----------



## Zanders

DeJaVu said:


> Not sure what all this talk is about premium cables , but mine logs with no problems with the first usb cable i had at hand(cheap 1A one that came with a e-cig VW Mod).
> While PCLS works great, im having trouble with DEX detecting the charger. Does DEX by any chance not play good with Win10 ?


All of my cables worked perfect with the charger untill I tried to provoke it with different USB sticks in the other ports. There seams to be some bugs in the PCLS that make the graph to freeze. Have no problems with other things in my USB ports.


----------



## maukka

Zanders said:


> All of my cables worked perfect with the charger untill I tried to provoke it with different USB sticks in the other ports. There seams to be some bugs in the PCLS that make the graph to freeze. Have no problems with other things in my USB ports.



This. I can consistently make the PCLS stop logging by removing or adding usb drives or devices while using the MC3000.


----------



## billcushman

US buyers - new Amazon MC3000 listing, fulfilled by Amazon. Monoprice Premium Micro USB Cables work well. The 3 ft is #9761, the 1.5 ft is #12003, and the 0.5 ft os #12002. I bought and returned several other brands that didn't fit well or had other problems.


----------



## DeJaVu

Zanders said:


> All of my cables worked perfect with the charger untill I tried to provoke it with different USB sticks in the other ports. There seams to be some bugs in the PCLS that make the graph to freeze. Have no problems with other things in my USB ports.



Will see if i can replicate this next time i use it.

So, is anyone else having problems with DEX on win 10 not detecting the charger?

And a question for current owners - is there an option for just IR measurement without starting a program, or for that i have to upgrade to 1.04b?


----------



## sector9

DeJaVu said:


> And a question for current owners - is there an option for just IR measurement without starting a program, or for that i have to upgrade to 1.04b?


You'll need to wait for firmware 1.04 for that feature


----------



## DeJaVu

sector9 said:


> You'll need to wait for firmware 1.04 for that feature


Not neceserily, as i have the 1.04 beta made available to me.
I would prefer 1.04 final, but im not sure how much longer i can keep it in my pants


----------



## kreisl

DeJaVu said:


> And a question for current owners - is there an option for just IR measurement without starting a program, or for that i have to upgrade to 1.04b?


current owners don't have that feature. in 1.04b the feature is present, just press STOP+UP button together, in TOV.


----------



## DeJaVu

dssguy1 said:


> I'm still rocking 62-65 degrees Celsius, discharging 4 Li-ion at 1A.
> 
> All I did was flip my fan and cut the grill out to reduce restriction.
> 
> Some of the other guys are doing stuff that still runs the charger near 85 Celsius and seems a lot less simple than what I did in 5 minutes.
> 
> Just my opinion, flip fan, cut grill, run way cooler, move on to a different problem.



Will definately do that in near future, even though i dont see myself discharging 4x1a at a time i still like my electronics cool, and cooler means longer service life.
Have this bad boy lying around
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118057
So i even might scavenge the fans and go for the double turbine mod 



Zanders said:


> All of my cables worked perfect with the charger untill I tried to provoke it with different USB sticks in the other ports. There seams to be some bugs in the PCLS that make the graph to freeze. Have no problems with other things in my USB ports.


Yep checks out, same behavior . Even tried disabling xHCI from bios as the intel USB 3.0 driver has been known to have problems with certain devices, but nothing changed.



kreisl said:


> current owners don't have that feature. in 1.04b the feature is present, just press STOP+UP button together, in TOV.


Thanks for the info.
BTW, youre on my "coal for christmass" list .
What happened with the flattop compatibility? Did you catch it and SKYRC didnt find it important enough to improve the positive terminals, or?


----------



## kreisl

All right, i've submitted the bug report re fw 1.04beita, hopefully 1.04 will be bug-free 

Since all vendors only have stock of the charger with the upwards blowing fan, here a share of my personal mod, interesting information for early adopters who got the downwards blowing fan. Even if composed in instructional style/guide, i don't recommend doing this mod, because it may invalidate your warranty and you could damage the charger (electronics, wires, soldering, fan, plastic housing, plastic brackets, plastic threads, etc) in the process. 



remove the 6 screws at the bottom side of the charger. the 4 rubber feet are attached to the plastic thru double-sided adhesive film. pull gently at a corner of a foot, hold the pulling force, lift that corner, the foot will slowly detach; be gentle, you don't want to tear the film. no tools needed, for the pulling/lifting use your finger nails. don't touch the film. 
slowly lift the bottom case a centimeter: you'll see the wire of the fan. detach the wire (fan plug) from the PCB, gently. now you can separate the bottom case from the PCB. 
take note to which side (left or right) the fan wire is going. when you reverse the fan, obviously the wire should go into the identical direction, towards the fan socket on the PCB. i'll call you dumb if you mess that part up. 
a fan has 2 sides: the label side and the back side. since _your _fan is blowing downwards, your eyes are facing the back side of the fan. And you can see 2 plastic brackets holding the fan snugly in place. IMPORTANT: the brackets are fragile, they easily break off their base. And they will, if you are not gentle. *Do not put any strain on the brackets.* I warned you. This is the first and the last time that i have warned you about breaking off the brackets. one warning is enough. 
you're also seeing some dried yellow glue at your fan and on the brackets. use a utility knife, make some appropriate cuts in de/thru de glue, then take your time and slowly remove the glue with finger or knife. it is easy enough to remove the glue, which is nice. 
now you can finally lift out, gently, the fan. all glue gone, all clean? ok. 
before putting the fan back, in reversed direction, we'll need a 0.7-1.3mm thick spacer in the 4 corners. without a spacer the fan rotor would touch the grille and produce extra noise. find something cute in your household, possibly some rubber, plastic, pad, not too hard, not too soft. for example you could cut out spacers from a jar rubber seal. 
with the spacers in place, you'd notice that the fan is too high for the brackets to hold it securely: the brackets don't snap in anymore! so we can either mod the brackets or mod the fan. 
mod the fan by making a very small chamfer at the fan edge where the brackets would grip/snap. doesn't need to be a "0° bevel" ("cut out"), a 45° bevel would do too. if you cut too much, too big a bevel, you'd introduce play, which would lead to a rattling fan. for making the chamfer i'd use a utility knife. files are a bit messy. 
when you insert the fan with the spacer in place, don't push on the middle of the fan when seating the fan, or you will break the fan construction, it's a small fragile fan after all! the brackets should snap in, as best as possible. as you can see on the photos, the distance between the brackets is 32.90mm, and after this mod i am getting 33.55mm. in other words each bracket is suffering a strain of 0.325mm. That's not too bad actually because it means that the brackets prevent rattling in the sidewards direction too, not only in the air blow direction. But with strain comes deformation and a deformed fan frame will be the cause of noise produced by rotating fan blades touching the frame! Maybe Sky used yellow glue to eliminate rattling noise, vibrational noise originating from tolerances of the fan dimensions. Well, with my mod, i don't need any glue. 
put everything back together, don't screw down the 6 screws tight (plastic threads!), vacuum your house, and enyoj the new air blow direction. upwards. 
 
a mod brought to you by the squirrel. all copyright ©2016 k


----------



## Albert_

It's more difficult to find a DC fan rated at exactly at 15 VDC. Do you think a 15 VDC rating is necessary for a replacement fan?

From the pics it appears the stock fan is 30mm x 30mm x ~10mm? Is there some sort of CFM and RPM rating? 

More common 12 VDC fans sometimes have a DC volts range rating related to CFM and RPM.

Plus other ratings

e.g.

Voltage rating = 12
Power current = 48 mA
Power consumption = 0.58
Speed = 9500 RPM
Air Flow = 5.5 CFM
Static Pressure = 0.15
Noise = 23.0 dB(A)
Curve = 1


----------



## kreisl

( deleted )


----------



## Albert_

I'm not saying the stock fan needs a replacement. I was mainly wondering if for some reason you needed or wanted to replace the stock fan, such as the fan wearing out, too noisy, wanted more CFM, etc, would 15 volts become an issue?

I suspect it wouldn't and a 12 volt fan with a voltage range could be used as a replacement fan. I would need to measure the fan pins voltage output, mostly likely it's being powered directly or indirectly from the 15 volts psu input.

I was just asking as I usually look at all variables when trying to understand various types of equipment. That is one of the reasons why I was asking about the stock fan specifications, I just wanted to better understand it's cooling efficiency.

Temperature control has been an issue with all kinds of electronics, before the advent of PCs. PC cooling became an issue back when the first PCs were being developed and coming onto the market. 

Here are some 12 volt fans from Digi-Key, I don't recall any selection for a 15 volt fan.

http://www.digikey.com/product-sear...t=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

By the way I like your write-up, has good pics, it covers most if not all details for a fan reversal.


----------



## kreisl

( deleted )


----------



## billcushman

Albert_ said:


> From the pics it appears the stock fan is 30mm x 30mm x ~10mm? Is there some sort of CFM and RPM rating?



The stock fan is 30x30x7mm. It is a JSL DC Brushless Fan manufactured by Jiang Shan Lai Electronics Co. Ltd. It is model #JDM3007S rated at 15V 0.10A.


----------



## tjh

Edit: Seeing as the post I was reply to was (deleted) I will go ahead and do the same.


----------



## billcushman

Albert, I purchased the following fan so I could examine a similar fan.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MYNWWXE/?tag=cpf0b6-20

When I bought this fan it was about $8.00 on Amazon. It is available from Chinese sources for much less but I wanted in a 2 days. I tested the fan with a variable DC power supply. At 12 volts the current was 0.12A. At 15 volts the current was 0.14A. The fan was very quiet in free space and could be mounted with the rotor side down with no interference on my sample. I didn't put this fan in the MC3000. I didn't run any long term tests to see if it was OK a 15 volts continuouly.


----------



## Albert_

kreisl has noted there are no cooling issues with this charger. However there are posts by some users who have reversed the stock fan and or added fans to this charger.

I would need to first use and test the charger along with it's fan firmware control, to determine the charger's cooling efficiency. 

Here's an article from the Sunon website I found interesting. Discusses in some detail "How to Select the Right Fan or Blower"

Perhaps it's not a practical method I would normally use, but does provide some insight into methods used by manufactures when engineering cooling for their equipment.

http://www.sunon.com/uFiles/file/03_products/07-Technology/004.pdf


----------



## kreisl

( deleted )


----------



## kreisl

( deleted )


----------



## tjh

Seeing as the posts I was replying to were deleted, I'll do the same.


----------



## fnsooner

Hey guys, is there a way to automatically discharge to a voltage of your choice? I am wanting to test the current draw of a couple of flashlights at different voltages, I.e., 4.00VDC, 3.75VDC AND 3.5VDC. 

I have been setting the slots to storage or discharge and catching it on the way down.

In Advanced mode, when going to “discharge” there is an option of “target voltage” but I am rejected when trying to input anything into it. 

No big deal if not. I am just trying to determine if I should quit looking. Thanks.


----------



## tjh

fnsooner said:


> Hey guys, is there a way to automatically discharge to a voltage of your choice?



Page 21 of the user manual, last paragraph "CUT VOLT"

Short answer: Yes, this is one of the features of this most excellent charger.


----------



## fnsooner

tjh said:


> Page 21 of the user manual, last paragraph "CUT VOLT"
> 
> Short answer: Yes, this is one of the features of this most excellent charger.


Thanks.:twothumbs


----------



## kreisl

charger can produce stable offline voltages, storage mode is limited to {3.65|3.66|…|3.99|4.00}V  afaik, so for 3.5V the battery needs to be discharged with discharge mode CUT VOLT {2.50|2.51|…|3.64|3.65}V. set Zero as termination and -Zero for discharge reduce.


----------



## Albert_

I don't think I'll be replacing the stock fan. 

However I would like to know it's CFM and RPM ratings.

For those interested in fans and cooling. Here are a couple of links I found to pdfs reguarding cooling fans.

http://www.sunon.com/uFiles/file/03...d/Sunon DC Brushless Fan & Blower_(190-E).pdf

http://www.sunon.com/tw/products/pdf/maglev.pdf


----------



## DeJaVu

kreisl said:


> Saying this is incorrect and misleading also. Feel free to make use of quotes.
> 
> There are no "high temperature problems" with the charger while discharging 4 LITHIUM-ION batteries at one amp.
> 
> I know which phenomenon you are referring too, the discharge load reduction implemented in the firmware if a max temperature is reached (for any reason), but that's not a bug or an issue or a problem but a feature. And that phenomenon cannot be observed with the currently available chargers anymore.
> 
> Feel free to call it "discharge load reduction observed in early chargers" but don't generalize and call it "cooling issues with the charger" or "high temperature problems". And if that is too long for you, then abbreviate it to DLROIEC.


From manufacturer standpoint it might be considered a "feature" , but from user standpoint it is an issue and the load reducing i consider a failsafe so the charger doesnt burst in flames.
As an example modern cpus come to mind, reducing frequency because of high heat is not a feature but a failsafe. 
It dictates that cooling needs to be chacked for malfunctions or upgraded as it is not doing the proper job and the part isnt functioning at its manufacturer allowed full potential.
If they would have done proper testing(it really escapes me how can almost 2 years of development end up with such trivial error) on the charger before producing, they could have capped the 4x discharge at 0.8. Or even better produce it with fan facing up straight away, and this conversation wouldnt have even existed  .
Dont get me started on non-protruding + flattop batteries not being detected unless you use a magnet or raise the battery.

Dont get me wrong, i still love it and is a one hell of a charger , with nothing that comes close to it in this form factor.
I would recommend it to anyone willing to spit the asked ammount.


----------



## mandrake

Searching Amazon just now shows no results for the MC3000. Lots of other chargers by SkyRC, not the MC3000. Do you have a link?


----------



## billcushman

mandrake said:


> Searching Amazon just now shows no results for the MC3000. Lots of other chargers by SkyRC, not the MC3000. Do you have a link?



Here is the link you requested.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BLTZ9UE/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## Ferdinando

DeJaVu said:


> So, is anyone else having problems with DEX on win 10 not detecting the charger?



Yes, I have
but not with Win10
with Win7 64 home ed.


----------



## Albert_

Have you tried using MS Fixit? These fixes sometimes have listed procedures that can be done manually. 

It's basically a diagnostic program that enables a user to diagnose and repair certain issues.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/mats/hardware_device_problems

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Tips-for-solving-problems-with-USB-devices


If MC3000 is recognized by the MC3000 monitor program and your Windows OS. The USB device drivers for the MC3000 are installed ok. No "Unknown Device". I'm not certain what would be the problem. 

If the MC3000 is recognized by the OS it will be listed as a USB device from the Device Manager > Under Universal Serial Bus controllers. Possibly labled as a "composite _device". _If not recognized should be listed as an "Unknown Device". If an "Unknown Device" or no recognition you can try re-installing individual Hub device driver until it's recognized.

USBView is a program that will list and have details about USB hubs, ports and connected usb devices.

Perhaps posting a question from the mailinglist http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/#mailinglist


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Minimoog said:


> If it helps this https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7mrfg9zt25n8vl/20160212_230048.jpg?dl=0 is from one that arrived from GB yesterday.



Is that your unit?

Do you also have a photo of the HW Version in GSV? :thumbsup:


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Is that your unit?
> 
> Do you also have a photo of the HW Version in GSV? :thumbsup:



Yes, it is mine - but I have not had a chance to power it up yet - I'll do that later and let you know.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

That would be real dandy. Wiv photo. Thanks in advance for the effort!

Sharing is fun


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Minimoog said:


> Yes, it is mine - but I have not had a chance to power it up yet - I'll do that later and let you know.



Take it out of the plastic if you want the fan to work.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I created a spacer blank for my MC3000 to charge batteries out of the cradle (like LIPO packs). Pretty simple design that I 3D printed and used Keystone connectors: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/228/36-228-ND/528660
































I know I can fit that battery in the charger, I was just using it as an example, I didn't have any Lipos laying around.

If anybody is interested, let me know and I will post it on Thingiverse.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks for sharing, nice one! 

I did something similar, all with commercial stuff, no 3-D printer needed. This particular RC hobby charging harness was a BG SKU:






I had introduced the conductive aluminum spacers (FT/DX) before, HKJ has them too in his mc3k review. The longer non-conductive spacer is an empty AAA-to-AA battery adapter:






The harness has 2 customizable tails, so i used up 1 tail by soldering 2 hooks to it as contacts for a prismatic single liion cell like a single cell smartphone battery:






For more info on charging-analyzing smartphone batteries, please see the other thread:


*Testing smartphone batteries*


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I want to know... So when it's time to upgrade the firmware. How would the update be delivered if the PC monitor program for the charger is not quite compatible with the latest Win OS? Would be nice to have the lcd turn on the moment you insert a cell or at least make it a configurable option.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I want to know... So when it's time to upgrade the firmware. How would the update be delivered if the PC monitor program for the charger is not quite compatible with the latest Win OS? Would be nice to have the lcd turn on the moment you insert a cell or at least make it a configurable option.


If you read the 1.04fw update post, kresil says this has been fixed and that v1.04 works like this - Insert a battery and the display lights.



kreisl said:


> + The AUTO of the backlight works now as expected, it turns ON when battery is inserted or when a program has finished (or an abnormal program termination occurs).



As for how we will get the firmware update, no one knows. We're all hoping/assuming there'll be an updated version of the Monitor program, but we don't know. For kresil he had a stand-alone .exe that worked, but he uses WinXP.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> If you read the 1.04fw update post, kresil says this has been fixed and that v1.04 works like this.
> 
> As for how we will get the firmware update, no one knows. We're all hoping/assuming there'll be an updated version of the Monitor program, but we don't know. For kresil he had a stand-alone .exe that worked, but he uses WinXP.


I suppose i can partition the drive and install winxp. I have to admit though. This is a bit much just to flash a firmware lol.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I suppose i can partition the drive and install winxp. I have to admit though. This is a bit much just to flash a firnware lol.


Why the **** would you do that? I'm sure SkyRC will release something so we don't to do that, they'd be a laughing stock otherwise.


----------



## Albert_

dssguy1 said:


> I created a spacer blank for my MC3000 to charge batteries out of the cradle (like LIPO packs). Pretty simple design that I 3D printed and used Keystone connectors: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/228/36-228-ND/528660
> 
> I know I can fit that battery in the charger, I was just using it as an example, I didn't have any Lipos laying around.
> 
> If anybody is interested, let me know and I will post it on Thingiverse.





Is there any method to charge small battery packs? e.g. I have a small lithium camera battery that's rated at 7.4 volts - 570mAh.

This sort of charging would be something that could be possibly integrated into the firmware?

________

FYI, I been told by SkyRC vendors that their recently updated stock of the MC3000 come with firmware version 1.03. Eventually a 1.04 version update will become available for download and installation.

Perhaps if some users are having problems running the MC3000_monitor.exe a separate exe file update will become available.

Windows not being able to recognize usb devices is sometimes a problem with the OS USB driver(s). Some usb devices come with their own drivers. It's likely some sort of Windows backward usb driver compatibility issue. As new usb devices are becoming more sophisticated, later versions of windows usb drivers are updated accordingly for compatibility, may have problems recognizing devices using older usb technologies. 

One solution is to connect the usb device and then re-install the usb hub drivers until the usb device is recognized.

If a usb device is recognized with a good os usb driver installation and conflicts still occur. Possibly there is some sort of serial communication problem between the device and the os usb driver & hardware. This sort of problem would be more of a rarity and likely a problem with the OS and/or OS usb driver.

If you're having issues with a usb connection first try some of the troubleshooting procedures as suggested above, then post your results. After performing the first steps of troubleshooting there are usually other troubleshooting procedures that can be then addressed.

some basic usb requirements

1. tested good working usb cable
2. usb device working normally (tested under other PC's and/or OS)
3. OS usb drivers correctly installed and working with other usb devices.
4. working usb port


----------



## tjh

Albert_ said:


> Is there any method to charge small battery packs? e.g. I have a small lithium camera battery that's rated at 7.4 volts - 570mAh.
> 
> This sort of charging would be something that could be possibly integrated into the firmware?



This is a single cell charger. If you want something that will charge packs, you need to be looking at a hobby charger. Something like the SkyRC Imax B6 Mini or similar.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Why the **** would you do that? I'm sure SkyRC will release something so we don't to do that, they'd be a laughing stock otherwise.


I was going to mention install xp in a virtual machine. But nah, too much overhead and many things could go wrong.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I was going to mention install xp in a virtual pc. But nah, too much overhead and many things could go wrong.


Exactly. I suspect WinXP works well because it allows some lower-level access to the USB port or similar. Trying to pass that through a guest VM is just screaming "give me problems". I would never, ever attempt to update the firmware of anything from the USB of a guest VM.


----------



## kreisl

Albert_ said:


> Is there any method to charge small battery packs? e.g. I have a small lithium camera battery that's rated at 7.4 volts - 570mAh.
> 
> This sort of charging would be something that could be possibly integrated into the firmware?



No.
No.

Explanation: the max allowed voltage per slot is 5V afaik rtfm


----------



## MarioJP

Albert_ said:


> Is there any method to charge small battery packs? e.g. I have a small lithium camera battery that's rated at 7.4 volts - 570mAh.
> 
> This sort of charging would be something that could be possibly integrated into the firmware?


You could potentially fry the charger. 7.4v that's too high.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I like my setup a little better, obviously I'm partial because I have a 3D printer and it took 15 minutes and $1 in parts. 

Much less of a rat's nest of live wires and I can plug any type of end connector to my female 5.5x2.1 barrel connector (I'm going to put a permanent one on, I was just testing the idea first) without having 8 other wires laying around my charger. I would be afraid to do anything else with that charger while the Octo-plug is attached! Some of those wires and alligator clips are just begging to be shorted out to something on the charger or each other IMO.

I was also trying to cut down on all the extra resistance points with my connections so I didn't measure abnormally high IR.

Your pictures of how to charge a cell phone battery with the bent copper wires is genius. I have been using that method to charge a battery on an old cell phone (it had a proprietary port that I lost the cable to long ago) that my daughter plays with ever since!



kreisl said:


> Thanks for sharing, nice one!
> 
> I did something similar, all with commercial stuff, no 3-D printer needed. This particular RC hobby charging harness was a BG SKU:


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I use to have a Tenergy TB6S+ balancing charger, worked great for a while but something happened internally and started to smoke. 

It's was a TB6S+ small version I picked up for $25.00 that was eventually discontinued. The combination case and pcb implementation was poor.

There's a better implementation available from another manufacture ( can't recall the manu. name). Handheld size with a small case has one balance connector port and pos/neg power connectors, plus the usual balance charger firmware.

As for the MC3000 I doubt anyone would integrate anything beyond single cell cylindrical capabilities. However it would be possible to modify the MC3000 firmware by adding an external charging port, however due to the complexities involved I doubt a charger like this would be created, at least in the near future.

One problem with balance chargers is their design is mainly for RC battery packs. I've built a few charging stations for cylindrical cells, but it's difficult because of all the wiring (and different types of battery holders) involved, so individual cells can be added and removed.

A better dyi alternative for lithium batteries is use of battery management charging boards. You can build a simple lithium 4 cell battery charger that charges each cell individually for approx. ~$5.00.

There are IC's such as LT1510 that are able to passively charge a battery and know when to stop and also be controlled by a MCU.


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cwd6vrq9jkzkjj/20160215_202012.jpg?dl=0 is my charger version. I ordered from GearBest - I'm running two of these chargers now.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks Minimoog,

looks very good!! 

:twothumbs


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I am happy to report that the micro usb that i got from Amazon shows no signs of connectivity issues from pc to charger whatsoever. The micro usb end connects firmly. Even wiggling did not cause any disconnect. These gold plated cables are high quality build.👍👍


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> Yes, I have
> but not with Win10
> with Win7 64 home ed.





Albert_ said:


> Have you tried using MS Fixit? These fixes sometimes have listed procedures that can be done manually.
> 
> It's basically a diagnostic program that enables a user to diagnose and repair certain issues.
> 
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/mats/hardware_device_problems
> 
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Tips-for-solving-problems-with-USB-devices
> 
> 
> If MC3000 is recognized by the MC3000 monitor program and your Windows OS. The USB device drivers for the MC3000 are installed ok. No "Unknown Device". I'm not certain what would be the problem.
> 
> If the MC3000 is recognized by the OS it will be listed as a USB device from the Device Manager > Under Universal Serial Bus controllers. Possibly labled as a "composite _device". _If not recognized should be listed as an "Unknown Device". If an "Unknown Device" or no recognition you can try re-installing individual Hub device driver until it's recognized.
> 
> USBView is a program that will list and have details about USB hubs, ports and connected usb devices.
> 
> Perhaps posting a question from the mailinglist http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/#mailinglist





I managed to make DEX work(i was gettin "cannot open USB port" message), by disabling xHCI in bios. The dodgy intel usb 3.0 chip strikes again(i had some problems previously with some device as i recall). 
So basicaly if you have intel usb 3.0 chip you have to choose, usb 3.0 speeds or logging with DEX.
Luckily i rarely use 3.0 devices on the pc im logging at, so in the rare occasions i need to i would have to make a trip to the bios. Dedicated PCI or PCIx usb card(not with intel chip) for logging could also be a good solution for some, if DEX and intel USB 3.0 speed is a must.
Also as a positive is that DEX doesnt stop logging when i plug usb device like PCLS likes to do. So you can forget about the premium usb cables and just use a good one you have, and wait for skyrc to fix the bug in PCLS. Or just use DEX.


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> I managed to make DEX work(i was gettin "cannot open USB port" message), by disabling xHCI in bios. The dodgy intel usb 3.0 chip strikes again(i had some problems previously with some device as i recall).
> So basicaly if you have intel usb 3.0 chip you have to choose, usb 3.0 speeds or logging with DEX.
> Luckily i rarely use 3.0 devices on the pc im logging at, so in the rare occasions i need to i would have to make a trip to the bios. Dedicated PCI or PCIx usb card(not with intel chip) for logging could also be a good solution for some, if DEX and intel USB 3.0 speed is a must.
> Also as a positive is that DEX doesnt stop logging when i plug usb device like PCLS likes to do. So you can forget about the premium usb cables and just use a good one you have, and wait for skyrc to fix the bug in PCLS. Or just use DEX.



Have you tried to update the USB 3 driver from the Intel website. The only time that I've had problems with the usb 3 ports I've resolved by simply updating the usb 3 driver.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> I managed to make DEX work(i was gettin "cannot open USB port" message), by disabling xHCI in bios. The dodgy intel usb 3.0 chip strikes again(i had some problems previously with some device as i recall).
> So basicaly if you have intel usb 3.0 chip you have to choose, usb 3.0 speeds or logging with DEX.
> Luckily i rarely use 3.0 devices on the pc im logging at, so in the rare occasions i need to i would have to make a trip to the bios. Dedicated PCI or PCIx usb card(not with intel chip) for logging could also be a good solution for some, if DEX and intel USB 3.0 speed is a must.
> Also as a positive is that DEX doesnt stop logging when i plug usb device like PCLS likes to do. So you can forget about the premium usb cables and just use a good one you have, and wait for skyrc to fix the bug in PCLS. Or just use DEX.



My PC's are using older 2.0 USB controllers. I'm not all that familure with USB 3.0. If you're required to go into a PC bios to solve an issue such as this, then part is the problem is the implementation of the PC's motherboard's USB, OS drivers and backward USB 3.0 compatibility issues.

____

PCLS is the only PC program I know of that's able to access and configure MC3000 battery cell settings, could use some more development and bug fixes. GUI compatibility needs some work. I'm not certain what else, an application of this type should have access to all device settings. Possibly a command line interface could be included.


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> I managed to make DEX work(i was gettin "cannot open USB port" message), by disabling xHCI in bios. The dodgy intel usb 3.0 chip strikes again(i had some problems previously with some device as i recall).
> So basicaly if you have intel usb 3.0 chip you have to choose, usb 3.0 speeds or logging with DEX.
> Luckily i rarely use 3.0 devices on the pc im logging at, so in the rare occasions i need to i would have to make a trip to the bios. Dedicated PCI or PCIx usb card(not with intel chip) for logging could also be a good solution for some, if DEX and intel USB 3.0 speed is a must.
> Also as a positive is that DEX doesnt stop logging when i plug usb device like PCLS likes to do. So you can forget about the premium usb cables and just use a good one you have, and wait for skyrc to fix the bug in PCLS. Or just use DEX.



Why don't you just use a USB 2.0 port instead? Most motherboards with USB 3.0 ports also have USB 2.0 ports.

Also, it was mostly the Z77 chipset and/or third party controllers on that specific chipset that had random USB 3.0 problems. AFAIK, these were fixed in later versions.


----------



## Rapster

Albert_ said:


> It's more difficult to find a DC fan rated at exactly at 15 VDC. Do you think a 15 VDC rating is necessary for a replacement fan?



You could just use a 12V fan and use a resistor to bring the voltage down to an acceptable level.

27 Ohm resistor should do the trick. (This would cover 12VDC fans using current of about 100-120mA if the supply was 15V.)


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> I managed to make DEX work(i was gettin "cannot open USB port" message), by disabling xHCI in bios. The dodgy intel usb 3.0 chip strikes again(i had some problems previously with some device as i recall).
> So basicaly if you have intel usb 3.0 chip you have to choose, usb 3.0 speeds or logging with DEX.
> Luckily i rarely use 3.0 devices on the pc im logging at, so in the rare occasions i need to i would have to make a trip to the bios. Dedicated PCI or PCIx usb card(not with intel chip) for logging could also be a good solution for some, if DEX and intel USB 3.0 speed is a must.
> Also as a positive is that DEX doesnt stop logging when i plug usb device like PCLS likes to do. So you can forget about the premium usb cables and just use a good one you have, and wait for skyrc to fix the bug in PCLS. Or just use DEX.



Some stuff recently became aware of, not certain if it will help anyone, I'm not familure with USB 3.0 other than what I read the past day or two.
______________________

I was reading online a little bit about this problem. Apparently some PC motherboard's with both USB 2.0 and 3.0, the mb bios will have USB compatibility settings.

Such as XHCI Hands-off, XHCI Pre-boot mode, etc. If enabled XHCI is then implemented in the OS using a XHCI driver, that controls USB compatibility.

It appears to be at least in part an OS driver issue. Depending on the bios setting different USB drivers are loaded and used by the OS. (Since I've don't have or ever used USB 3.0, I would need to read up on it a bit .. There are different hardware and bios implementations of USB by the motherboard manufactures.)

XHCI Mode = Disabled - The on-board USB 3.0 port function like a 2.0 port

XHCI Mode = Enabled - The on-board USB 3.0 port function like a 3.0 port

XHCI Mode = Auto - The on-board USB 3.0 port function like a 2.0 port before OS USB 3.0 driver load. If you reboot the OS, the on-board USB 3.0 port again function like a 2.0 port during this reboot BIOS phase before OS USB 3.0 driver load.

XHCI Mode = Smart Auto - The on-board USB 3.0 port function like a 2.0 port before OS USB 3.0 driver load. If you reboot the OS, during this reboot BIOS phase, BIOS is "Smart" enough to avoid downgrade the USB 3.0 port back to 2.0 functionality before OS USB 3.0 driver load. So Smart Auto is faster than Auto on 2nd boot onward, but Enabled is fastest once you are sure the OS has the USB 3.0 driver installed, because it avoid the switching. Making the on-board USB 3.0 port function like a 2.0 port is mainly to support OS installation or to support OS that does not have build-in USB 3.0 driver, so that the USB keyboard would still work if the user plug-in a USB keyboard or any other USB devices into the USB 3.0 ports before the OS is installed with the USB 3.0 driver come with the motherboard
___________

I wasn't able to find any Intel USB drivers for Windows 8 & 10. From what I read online Intel Windows 7 USB drivers shouldn't be used under Windows 8 & 10. 

Intel has a program that searches for out of date drivers and faciliates updating installed Intel drivers.

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24345/Intel-Driver-Update-Utility

USB 3.0 Drivers

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/65855/Intel-USB-3-0-eXtensible-Host-Controller-Driver

Some PC manufactures have their own OE hardware driver versions. 

I would also look to see if your mb has the most recent bios. Some PC manufactures include an update application that will scan your PC for the latest OEM bios, drivers and applications.

Windows 8 and Windows 10, except for the windows manager, the core is fairly much the same and should be using the same USB driver stack.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

A lot of this PC compatibility stuff is probably more than I want to deal with. I have tried to keep up with this thread from about November on but have pretty much tuned out all the PC stuff. I do all of my programming and operating of this charger manually. I have not down loaded the computer program for this charger and am really only interested in its ability to upgrade my charger firmware.

I have a laptop that was originally Windows 7 and is now upgraded to Windows 10. Is there any quick and dirty guidance for someone like myself? When will a firmware upgrade be available? Is there a stable PC program that will work on my PC and do the upgrade without risk? Do I need a special USB cable? I have several around the house for different uses.

I am happy with the charger at the moment and am not in a big hurry to upgrade my firmware but would like to be able do it as it was something promised by SkyRC. There is so much PC jargon and computer wiz stuff going on in this thread that I am having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees. Thanks.

By the way, I do use and like the app for my iphone 6 to monitor this charger.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Wow, after reading this part on this thread just to flash a firmware on to a device. This is insane. I think SkyRC needs to take notes from Samsung. Just like Samsung. SkyRC needs to release a usb driver package installer. That's how Samsung does it if you need to upgrade or flash firmwares on your phone. without this driver, you run the risk of bricking your phone . something tells me there are parts missing that the stand alone skyrc program does not provide. That is just a flashing tool. It needs its own driver to handle firmware flashing. Relying on default windows usb drivers is a hit or miss and is asking for trouble. The simple fact that it works on xp is just pure luck. XP is simple unlike vista and up lol. Maybe UAC has something to do with it. I don't know. Samsung solved that issue by releasing its own driver lol.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If the update option in the PCLS software works properly, it will probably be OK for updating, once you unzip it and use a RAR Opener and add a device to get PCLS working using a quality Micro USB 2 cable. They badly need to implement screen resizing or support more resolutions. Many laptops will presently cut off the bottom of the PCLS display. I wish SkyRC would support Apple OS X El Capitan. With Apple, I find almost every thing just works and has awesome capability and is a pleasure to use. With Microsoft, everything is frustrating and a PITA. Win10 has many improvements and doesn't crash but pales in comparison to OS X.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Disabling USB 3.0 from your PC's bios, may help to remedy any USB 2.0 & 3.0 problems and conflicts. 


Things below .....

A little reasoning with a few technical details, possibly help for troubleshooting, etc. please disregard if you don't want or need.

_______________________


You can try different bios settings and/or usb drivers to have both usb 2.0 and 3.0 cooperate. Apparently some PCs are using the same USB port for both USB versions.

The other suggestion is to install a USB 2.0 adapter. You could then disable the motherboards USB controller or configure it for USB 3.0 only. During bootup Windows would then recognize and install the USB 2.0 adapter using it's default USB 2.0 stack.

If your having hardware and/or software problems you should try to report the actual problem in some detail and not just state it won't connect, sometimes works, etc. Often there are fairly simple solutions and remedies to problems and conflicts, when at least some basic details are known.
____________

USB has similarities derived from serial RS-232 protocols. USB is basically a serial connection to a serial device. Is also being used to power and charge usb devices.

USB host and device power management normally is kept independent of USB data BUS protocols.

RS-485 has similar functions of USB (such as a device ID) and is able to handle serially connected multiple RS-485 devices. E.g. Many of the CCTV cameras and controllers still use RS-485, which is sometimes preferred over USB, Ethernet and other connection types.

USB specifications were originally deigned as an industry standard to PC architecture with a focus on PC peripherals. Serial RS protocols and hardware, having been around a long time, aren't necessarily engineered for PC standards. (one exception is the DB-9 RS-232 connector, wiring and protocols, simplified variant of the RS-232 protocol, was originally designed by IBM for the IBM PC)

USB 2.0 standards involve:

- Ease-of-use for PC peripheral expansion
- Low-cost solution supporting transfer rates up to 480 Mb/s
- Full support for real-time data of voice, audio, and video
- Protocol flexibility for mixed-mode synchronous data transfers and asynchronous messaging
- Integration into commodity device technology
- Comprehension of various PC configurations and form factors
- Provision of a standard interface capable of quick diffusion into product
- Enabling new classes of devices that augment the PC’s capability
- Full backward compatibility for devices built to previous versions of the specification


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> If the update option in the PCLS software works properly, it will probably be OK for updating, once you unzip it and use a RAR Opener and add a device to get PCLS working using a quality Micro USB 2 cable.


This I could probably do when the time comes. 

What Albert said, not so much.:shakehead


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My laptop and the two USB hubs I have connected to it are all USB3 capable.
I specifically bought USB3 hubs for my new laptop.

I have no problem running the PCLS and talking to my MC3000 via it.

So I suspect the USB3 thing is a bit of a red herring.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> My laptop and the two USB hubs I have connected to it are all USB3 capable.
> I specifically bought USB3 hubs for my new laptop.
> 
> I have no problem running the PCLS and talking to my MC3000 via it.
> 
> So I suspect the USB3 thing is a bit of a red herring.


Re-read the original post. 
Disabling usb 3.0 helped with dex(not pcls) detecting the charger. It is still not narowed down, but my giess is that problems arise only with Intel USB 3.0 Chip.

Pcls works ok either way, except that it stops logging upon inserting another usb device, a behavior which dex doesnt exibit.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My low cost Windows 10 laptop is a HP 14t-ac100 with a tiny 32GB SSD. It boots up in 35 seconds but the highest resolution is 1366x768. It has two USB2 ports and one USB3 port. I have only used the USB2 connection. I bought this model because it was cheap, had a removable battery (4-18650), has an ethernet port, and has bluetooth. This model is not available from stores, only by HP direct. It shipped from the factory in China.

http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-14t-laptop-m0f19av-1

http://www.china.org.cn/business/2014-06/16/content_32674371.htm


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

After taking a closer look at USB 3.0 I have found a few basic details, which may or may not be important to someone troubleshooting.

USB 3.0 Host Controller is comprised of two USB HUBs, different from one another

USB 2.0 HUB (for low, full & high speed USB devices)
USB 3.0 HUB (for USB 3.0 super speed devices)

USB 3.0 is technically closer to SATA then to USB 2.0.

By disabling USB 3.0 HUB may help to alleviate any conflicts that prevents a USB 2.0 device from being recognized and initialized by the USB 3.0 Host Controller and OS drivers.

If a USB 2.0 device is recognized, initialized and displayed in the Window Device Manager, there potentially can be other conflicts that prevent the USB Software from accessing the USB 2.0. Any USB software needs to be able to send and receive signals or commands to and from a USB device.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sorry, I misread.
I do also use DEX though and I've had no issues with it talking to my charger each, regardless of which port plugged into.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Sorry, I misread.
> I do also use DEX though and I've had no issues with it talking to my charger each, regardless of which port plugged into.



What is your OS, USB 3.0 Host controller and USB driver version?


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have a laptop motherboard with USB 2 & 3 combo, and I have trouble with DEX to recognize
MC3K, either using USB2 or USB3 port.

however ,with same laptop, DEX recognize
without problem icharger 4010

Thanks for all suggestions, I will try to modify
bios setting anyway.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i have revised the list since ive just got the revised beita fw version (named 1.04ceita), just a heads up. pretty much everything has been allegedly fixed by now but their status is NOT TESTED because it takes some time for me to test the fixes, confirm that they have been fixed.

but at least the maker team thinks that they are all FIXED


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> This I could probably do when the time comes.
> 
> What Albert said, not so much.:shakehead



To be honest, I think Albert is practising some sort of obfuscation technique. lol

Albert, it is not as complicated as you are making things out to be. For one, the reason Intel is not updating USB 3.0 drivers is because Microsoft is including all that stuff in the modern OS'es. The reason Intel and the such had to bring out USB 3.0 drivers in the first place was that the USB 3.0 standard wasn't fully ratified by the time they brought the hardware and Intel et al ended up having to support their own implementations of the USB 3.0 hardware, hence why the problems were mostly localized to the early versions of chipsets supporting USB 3.0.

For those concerned about updating firmware, don't be concerned. When the time comes and SkyRC release the firmware then we'll know what will be required and I doubt very much that it will be a complicated process requiring some outdated Operating Systems and exotic cables.

USB cables - if you have any Micro USB data cable around or under a metre long and it came from a reliable source (Samsung, Canon, Logitech, etc.) then you will more than likely be fine. The problem cables are the cheap and nasty stuff that only contain a strand or two of copper. There are plenty of the rubbish ones about, even the ones that cost more than $1/£1/€1, that's why if you use a reliably sourced third party cable you will be fine. The reputable companies do not supply rubbish cables because it's too much of a support headache and ends up costing more than they save on a cheap cable.


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i have revised the list since ive just got the revised beita fw version (named 1.04ceita), just a heads up. pretty much everything has been allegedly fixed by now but their status is NOT TESTED because it takes some time for me to test the fixes, confirm that they have been fixed.
> 
> but at least the maker team thinks that they are all FIXED



"1.04ceita"? Sorry, that's all Greek to me...


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i have revised the list since ive just got the revised beita fw version (named 1.04ceita), just a heads up. pretty much everything has been allegedly fixed by now but their status is NOT TESTED because it takes some time for me to test the fixes, confirm that they have been fixed.
> 
> but at least the maker team thinks that they are all FIXED



It's great to see how responsive they are to feature requests/changes/bug fixes.

That was one of my fears in buying this charger that I would be stuck with fw1.02.

Thanks again for kreisl for your work triaging the bugs/issue we encounter.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> I have a laptop motherboard with USB 2 & 3 combo, and I have trouble with DEX to recognize
> MC3K, either using USB2 or USB3 port.
> 
> however ,with same laptop, DEX recognize
> without problem icharger 4010
> 
> Thanks for all suggestions, I will try to modify
> bios setting anyway.



Does the MC3000 show up in the Device Manager when connected to a USB port?

May be labeled as a "USB Composite Device"


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I've been waiting a long time for this charger to available in the US. I was excited to read that it was made available at Amazon and I ordered on right away. Just unpacked and did a quick read through the manual and checked out the differences between Dummy, Simple and Advanced. I think Simple would handle most of my needs but I like that the Advanced setting allows you get more granular with the current settings with 0.01A adjustments. 

A quick hour with the manual and the charger and I get it all. 

Mine came with firmware 1.03 so I suppose I'll want to upgrade it at some point.

I got the iPhone bluetooth app up and running very quickly and I like that you can setup custom programs in the phone app and start the charger with these programs for those one off times you don't want to setup programs on the charger itself. Work well and connectivity was no problem at all.

Now - on to the USB computer connection. UGH! Not working for me. I ordered one of those Monopiece 3 ft premium USB cables with it so I don't think that a problem - I've tried a few other cables as well. I am connecting it to a Mac though and it's not even seeing a USB connection. I use VMWare Fusion and have Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs that I usually have no problem mapping USB devices through to the software. No go here. I think I might have an old Windows laptop around somewhere so if I can find that I connect it up to make sure that it's just the Mac being the issue. 

Other than that I am very pleased with the charger. I've been wanting something hobby quality for a long time with the features that this provides. 

One other note - this charger is HUGE! I thought my Opus BT-C3100 was a big charger but this thing is mammoth. It'll definitely be for home charging only and other more portable chargers will come with me when I travel.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Could somebody please test to see if installing the software and rebooting prior to plugging the charger into the PC makes any difference to comms? 

This may be an issue, or vice versa.


----------



## sector9

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> I've been waiting a long time for this charger to available in the US. I was excited to read that it was made available at Amazon and I ordered on right away. Just unpacked and did a quick read through the manual and checked out the differences between Dummy, Simple and Advanced. I think Simple would handle most of my needs but I like that the Advanced setting allows you get more granular with the current settings with 0.01A adjustments.
> 
> A quick hour with the manual and the charger and I get it all.
> 
> Mine came with firmware 1.03 so I suppose I'll want to upgrade it at some point.
> 
> I got the iPhone bluetooth app up and running very quickly and I like that you can setup custom programs in the phone app and start the charger with these programs for those one off times you don't want to setup programs on the charger itself. Work well and connectivity was no problem at all.
> 
> Now - on to the USB computer connection. UGH! Not working for me. I ordered one of those Monopiece 3 ft premium USB cables with it so I don't think that a problem - I've tried a few other cables as well. I am connecting it to a Mac though and it's not even seeing a USB connection. I use VMWare Fusion and have Windows 7 and Windows 10 VMs that I usually have no problem mapping USB devices through to the software. No go here. I think I might have an old Windows laptop around somewhere so if I can find that I connect it up to make sure that it's just the Mac being the issue.
> 
> Other than that I am very pleased with the charger. I've been wanting something hobby quality for a long time with the features that this provides.
> 
> One other note - this charger is HUGE! I thought my Opus BT-C3100 was a big charger but this thing is mammoth. It'll definitely be for home charging only and other more portable chargers will come with me when I travel.


Have you tried using the DataExplorer program for Mac instead? Any connection issues there?


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sector9 said:


> Have you tried using the DataExplorer program for Mac instead? Any connection issues there?



I'm not familiar with this app. Is it a SkyRC app or something else?


----------



## sector9

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> I'm not familiar with this app. Is it a SkyRC app or something else?



It is not by SkyRC but supports the MC3000. It is here http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/

Also, since you mentioned using the iOS app, make sure that the bluetooth LED is not lit on your MC3000 before trying to connect (since the MC3000 supports either USB or bluetooth but not both simultaneously)


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

der will be a new version 3.2.5 with debugged mc3k support out soon, a matter of days or so


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just checked the discharge performance of four full charged Olight 3400mAh 18650 Lithium Ion Batteries at 1A in a new SkyRC MC3000 with the factory reversed fan. The maximum system temperature noted was 181℉ (82.8℃) at about 40 minutes. The fan was set to turn on at 113℉. As the discharge progressed for a little over 3 hours, the system temperature gradually fell to 136℉ (57.8℃). The temperature never increased to 185℉ (85.0℃) so there was never any current reduction. 

This is a real stress test for the MC3000. For best life of internal components I suggest limiting discharge of four fully charged Lithium-Ion batteries to .2C or .8A. Discharging four at .5A is very easy on the charger. If you discharge four at 1A, even with the reversed fan, I suggest setting the fan to ON for this operation to help keep the system temperature as low as possible. If you want to discharge at 1A, only using three cell will be easier on the charger.

The specification of the MC3000 still lists the Discharge Power as 15 watts. 4 slots x 4.2 volts x .89A = 14.92 watts. 4 x 4.2 volts x 1A = 16.8 watts. Three 4.2 volts cells at 1A = 12.6 watts. Be kind to the charger when discharging near maximum discharge power. You will be rewarded with much longer component life. 

The reversed fan improves cooling performance and eliminates current limiting with normal ambient temperature, but not pushing the discharge power limits is much easier on the charger.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> I just checked the discharge performance of four full charged Olight 3400mAh 18650 Lithium Ion Batteries at 1A in a new SkyRC MC3000 with the factory reversed fan. The maximum system temperature noted was 181℉ (82.8℃) at about 40 minutes. The fan was set to turn on at 113℉. As the discharge progressed for a little over 3 hours, the system temperature gradually fell to 136℉ (57.8℃). The temperature never increased to 185℉ (85.0℃) so there was never any current reduction.
> 
> This is a real stress test for the MC3000. For best life of internal components I suggest limiting discharge of four fully charged Lithium-Ion batteries to .2C or .8A. Discharging four at .5A is very easy on the charger. If you discharge four at 1A, even with the reversed fan, I suggest setting the fan to ON for this operation to help keep the system temperature as low as possible. If you want to discharge at 1A, only using three cell will be easier on the charger.
> 
> The specification of the MC3000 still lists the Discharge Power as 15 watts. 4 slots x 4.2 volts x .89A = 14.92 watts. 4 x 4.2 volts x 1A = 16.8 watts. Three 4.2 volts cells at 1A = 12.6 watts. Be kind to the charger when discharging near maximum discharge power. You will be rewarded with much longer component life.
> 
> The reversed fan improves cooling performance and eliminates current limiting with normal ambient temperature, but not pushing the discharge power limits is much easier on the charger.



What am I doing different that I don't go past 65 C in the same situation. 

I removed the grill is the only difference that I can see.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> What am I doing different that I don't go past 65 C in the same situation.
> 
> I removed the grill is the only difference that I can see.



The grill blocks about 50% of the fan intake area. Axial fans don't like resistance. My ambient temperature was about 76℉. If yours was cooler, that would also help.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Are Lithium battery cell temperatures coming even close to ~60 deg. C. at a 1 amp discharge rate? 

What temperatures are actually being reported by the firmware?

Temperature Specifications:

Battery Temperature ___ 20C - 70C safety cut-off (+ safety net)
Internal Temperature ___ 85C safety net
Operating Temperature __ 0C to 40C ventilated room


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Are the Lithium battery cell temperatures coming even close to ~60 deg. C. at a 1 amp discharge rate?
> 
> What temperatures are actually being reported by the firmware?
> 
> Temperature Specifications:
> 
> Battery Temperature ___ 20C - 70C safety cut-off (+ safety net)
> Internal Temperature ___ 85C safety net
> Operating Temperature __ 0C to 40C ventilated room



Read my post #2395. It fully answers all your questions except battery temperature. The battery temperature at 1A discharge is typically around 100℉ (37.8℃).


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Read my post #2395. It fully answers all your questions except battery temperature. The battery temperature at 1A discharge is typically around 100℉ (37.8℃).



85C is within Internal Temperature specification safety net. How does the temperature reported by MC3000 firmware reflect actual operating temperatures?

(sorry for the questions, my charger's delivery has been delayed for another month +/- because of some confusion with expedited shipping, an additional item being added to the order voided expedited shipping of the MC3000, even though the second item was accepted for expedited shipping during checkout. I wouldn't recommend adding additional items when ordering a MC3000 as other shipping options potentially become voided)

I have a Fluke Laser thermometer with a temperature probe that I've used to measure different battery charging temperatures. Some battery chargers may have internal temperature sensors however the sensors are normally used along with voltage, current and resistance measurements to compute battery temperatures using an A/D chip. 

Does the MC3000 report the charger unit's operating temperature? 85C would be outside their operating temperature specification.

Here's a simple method to add a temperature probe to your DMM.

http://www.instructables.com/id/A-simple-tip-to-add-a-thermometer-to-your-digital-/

Here are a few articles and pdf I've been reading to obtain a better understanding about batteries, battery charging and temperatures. I'm still in the process of researching different aspects of batteries and battery charging.

http://www.jhuapl.edu/ott/technologies/technology/articles/P02884.asp

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3247723/

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/testing_lithium_based_batteries

http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/29421f.pdf

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/571

Thermistors: http://www.semitec-usa.com/application/battery1.html


----------



## Milw light

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can someone who needs an instruction manual to plug this in make use of this sophisticated charger? I know I can buy a cheaper dumber charger. I'd rather buy the best & not be sorry I bought a real distant second.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Milw light said:


> Can someone who needs an instruction manual to plug this in make use of this sophisticated charger? I know I can buy a cheaper dumber charger. I'd rather buy the best & not be sorry I bought a real distant second.



A "Dummy" mode was built into the firmware, so it works like a dumb charger with two additional user levels. Has PC and Bluetooth Link. The PC-Link software is fairly simple, to modify the software's default settings you need to know something about battery charging and charging variables.

The manual states that Dummy mode supports NiMH and LiIon battery only and will automatically detect battery chemistry.

I'm still waiting for the charger to be delivered. The manual has instructions for selecting Dummy mode, charging current and then pressing a couple of other buttons to start charging. I'm not certain it works similar to some chargers in Dummy mode, i.e. after a few seconds of inserting a battery, automatically starts charging using the charger's default settings.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Milw light said:


> Can someone who needs an instruction manual to plug this in make use of this sophisticated charger? I know I can buy a cheaper dumber charger. I'd rather buy the best & not be sorry I bought a real distant second.


Do you care about how many C you're putting into your batteries? Do you want to see pretty graphs of he charge?

If you just want to charge batteries, this charger is way way overkill. But if you want to tweak every little thing and know every little detail about your batteries, this is the one to get.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

From what I can gather this is the best non commercial battery charger for charging single cylindrical batteries of multiple sizes and chemistries on the market. And it can do 4 at once in most cases.

If you are charging battery packs or batteries in series or parallel or batteries of the non cylindrical type, there are better options available.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> And it can do 4 at once in most cases.



Here is one case with 12 AA's (3 AA per slot in a commercial yet modded adapter, × 4 slots):







Similarly, i also managed to charge 16 AAA's simultaneously (4 AAA per slot in a commercial unmodded adapter, × 4 slots).


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Squirrel, under what parameters are you charging these and how are you terminating the charge?

Thanks


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi Devon, i'll detail parallel NiMH charging in 1 or 2 future posts, my pleasure to share. For now, just this: no special parameters set. Normal NiMH charging, 3.00A charge rate per slot, 3mV delta peak. Each AA cells gets 1 amp, so this is indeed a "12 amps" charging


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Terminating on delta peak does not work properly when charging batteries in parallel. The batteries peak at different times even when we'll matched. Putting 3 amps into your batteries when 2 in a pack have peaked and the 3rd has not will quickly wreck them.

The charger cannot terminate the pack properly like this.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Milw light said:


> Can someone who needs an instruction manual to plug this in make use of this sophisticated charger? I know I can buy a cheaper dumber charger. I'd rather buy the best & not be sorry I bought a real distant second.



Have you ever used a hobby charger for RC battery packs? If yes then you would definitely be able to pick this up with some of the more advanced features. 

If no - then you may struggle a little bit with all the features but you should be able to get by in Dummy mode.

I would definitely recommend reading through the manual (it's available on the SkyRC website as a PDF download). The english translation leaves a bit to be desired here and there and makes it a bit of a tougher read. But if you can read through the manual and say to yourself that you kinda get it then you should be okay once you got the charger in hand. 

It's one heck of a charger and having the ability to choose profiles specifically for Eneloop and Eneloop Pro NiMH batteries that don't trickle the cells when the charge is complete is pretty impressive.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Terminating on delta peak does not work properly when charging batteries in parallel. The batteries peak at different times even when we'll matched. Putting 3 amps into your batteries when 2 in a pack have peaked and the 3rd has not will quickly wreck them.
> 
> The charger cannot terminate the pack properly like this.


Of course that is the prerequisite, the batteries must be identical. For my tests i use best quality best condition identical cells, so they are automatically best matched. In all other cases, diverging peaks would wreck the wreck the cells quickly, no argument there. Keep in mind that Eneloop company itself manufactures D cell Eneloops by composing AA Eneloops in parallel, we've seen such proof of composition on the inet, was it cpf? It means that it is a legitimate method, in principle.

Of course my commercial modded adapter is not perfect, with various contact resistances of varying magnitude.

Having said that, alternatively one could let the charger terminate on voltage, for example TARGET VOLT 1.47V plus 300mA trickle charge during C.RESTING 120min lol. That's basically the charge algorithm of MH-C9000 which terminates on voltage followed by 100mA top-off charge for 2hrs.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This is an easy way to get the PCLS Monitor Software. This method directly downloads the .exe file. It avoids downloading the zip file, unzipping the downloaded file, and using a .rar opener. Go to the ProgressiveRC site and click on download the Monitor Control Software. 

http://www.progressiverc.com/skyrc-mc3000-multi-chemistry-charger.html


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So. Still pondering if i should partition the drive for win xp lol.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> So. Still pondering if i should partition the drive for win xp lol.



The PC Monitor software works fine with Windows 10. I haven't tried it with Windows 7. I usually use the MC3000 by itself only, but have used PCLS a few time when I needed to record data. The second button on the right side of PCLS that says STAR is the START button. It wan't obvious to me with no instructions provided. If they only had space for four characters, STRT might have been better. My display resolution is 1366x768 so the bottom of the screen is not displayed, but when you save the file everything is there and it prints correctly.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Albert, sorry you still don't have your MC3000. Where do you live? To answer your questions, read the first paragraph on page 16 of the MC3000 Manual. The unit has six temperature sensors, two are on the Heatsink and the others are on each of the four slots. The results can be displayed in ℉ or ℃. I haven't felt any need to measure battery temperature with my Laser Temperature Gauge.  The batteries have always been cool to the touch. The battery temperature seldom gets to as high as 100℉.


----------



## Milw light

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> A "Dummy" mode was built into the firmware, so it works like a dumb charger with two additional user levels. Has PC and Bluetooth Link. The PC-Link software is fairly simple, to modify the software's default settings you need to know something about battery charging and charging variables.
> 
> The manual states that Dummy mode supports NiMH and LiIon battery only and will automatically detect battery chemistry.
> 
> I'm still waiting for the charger to be delivered. The manual has instructions for selecting Dummy mode, charging current and then pressing a couple of other buttons to start charging. I'm not certain it works similar to some chargers in Dummy mode, i.e. after a few seconds of inserting a battery, automatically starts charging using the charger's default settings.


 Thanks Albert, one of my concerns is updating this too. When you are running Vista Home I think a person is sunk. This should be a good investment though.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Here is information on current Operating System usage.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

A friend has Vista and finds it terrible. He bought a new computer with Window 10 to stop the frustration and agony.

I usually use a Mac with OSX 10.11.3, recently updated from OSX 10.6.8. PCLS works fine with Windows 10 on my new $200 HP 14t-ac100 Computer. It has Bluetooth, a removable battery, an ethernet port, 2 USB2 ports and 1 USB 3 port. I normally use a Mac for everything. I use a PC only when it is required. Albert, if you are using Vista, buy a new machine or upgrade to a better Operating System.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Of course that is the prerequisite, the batteries must be identical. For my tests i use best quality best condition identical cells, so they are automatically best matched. In all other cases, diverging peaks would wreck the wreck the cells quickly, no argument there. Keep in mind that Eneloop company itself manufactures D cell Eneloops by composing AA Eneloops in parallel, we've seen such proof of composition on the inet, was it cpf? It means that it is a legitimate method, in principle.
> 
> Of course my commercial modded adapter is not perfect, with various contact resistances of varying magnitude.
> 
> Having said that, alternatively one could let the charger terminate on voltage, for example TARGET VOLT 1.47V plus 300mA trickle charge during C.RESTING 120min lol. That's basically the charge algorithm of MH-C9000 which terminates on voltage followed by 100mA top-off charge for 2hrs.



I too have a setup just like yours Squirrel.

I also need to charge lots of AA batteries at once, all Eneloops. 

The problem with this setup is working out how to do it fast and maintain good battery life....unfortunately delta peak termination only works on a single battery and can't work on a number of batteries in parallel. This is a shame.

The work around you have proposed seems to be the best solution. This is the way we are heading. We don't need the batteries completely full so may just terminate on voltage and not worry about the last trickle as it means running two programs and will also extend battery life.

The problem here is getting the voltage right. The MC300 appears to terminate lower than the set voltage, but not by much.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Devon, I too have lot of Eneloops, probably about 40 AA and 16 AAA- I seldom need to charge more than four at a time. I have two MC3000s and if needed I also have two C9000s (9 years old). I also have a Liitokala Lii-500 and a Nitecore D4. At present the two MC3000 are all I use. If I used all six chargers I could charge 24 Eneloops at the same time. In my case this will never be necessary. Charging a large number of batteries at once is normally only required by someone maintaining batteries for a fleet of flashlights that are used heavily every day.


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Man, you guys are hilarious with charging envelops. I never had to charge any envelops.. they just never held a charge


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Devon, I too have lot of Envelops, probably about 40 AA and 16 AAA- I seldom need to charge more than four at a time. I have two MC3000s and if needed I also have two C9000 (9 years old). I also have a Liitokala Lii-500 and a Nitecore D4. At present the two MC3000 are all I use. If I used all six chargers I could charge 24 Envelops at the same time. In my case this will never be necessary. Charging a large number of batteries at once is normally only required by someone maintaining batteries for a fleet of flashlights that are used heavily every day.



We are currently using mostly primaries and use lots every day.

Trying to eliminate that and introduce a rechargeable solution dummies can use safely and minimise any problem.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> appears to terminate lower than the set voltage


How do you come to this conclusion? "lower" .. do you mean in reference/comparison to your DMM measurement? If you set TARGET VOLT 1.47V, then mc3k will terminate when mc3k measures 1.47V. when mc3k measures 1.43V, then mc3k will not terminate. So you mean that your DMM is measuring "1.43V" (in this example) after taking out the battery? Sure, that would be natural, if you have not matched your DMM and mc3k thru the User Calibration.

Today i finished testing and verifying the bug fixes in 1.04ceita. 2-3 new minor bugs discovered on the way, k#34-36. :huh:


----------



## recDNA

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So I just cannot get through 243 pages... How about some kind soul summarizing why I do not want this charger? Post 1 talks about the reasons I do. I think somewhere I read it doesn't make good contact with some batteries? Is it safe, dependable, work well for a few years?


----------



## recDNA

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Do you care about how many C you're putting into your batteries? Do you want to see pretty graphs of he charge?
> 
> If you just want to charge batteries, this charger is way way overkill. But if you want to tweak every little thing and know every little detail about your batteries, this is the one to get.


I want to test maH of my older batteries to see if it is time to dump them. Will this do that without a degree in electrical engineering to figure out how?


You know what? I think I have read enough to know this is too hard.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



recDNA said:


> I want to test maH of my older batteries to see if it is time to dump them. Will this do that without a degree in electrical engineering to figure out how?
> 
> 
> You know what? I think I have read enough to know this is too hard.


The software is somewhat complex, and the charger functions werent mapped at keypresses that came to me intuitively. But after about an hour with it, everything was clear and easy to work with.


recDNA said:


> So I just cannot get through 243 pages... How about some kind soul summarizing why I do not want this charger? Post 1 talks about the reasons I do. I think somewhere I read it doesn't make good contact with some batteries? Is it safe, dependable, work well for a few years?


It has flattop batteries compatibility issues. If the positive isnt protruding, you will need to raise tge battery(which becomes complicated if you are charging 3-4), or use a magnet
Heres a list of flattop batteries that i tested:

Need raising/magnet
Samsung 18650 25R
Samsung 18650 30Q
Efest 18500 purple 1100mah
Tensai/enerpower 18500 blue 1100mah
Vappower 18500 1100 mah
Sanyo 18500FK
Efest 18350 purple 700mah

Work without raising/magnet

LG 18650HG2
Panasonic NCR18500
Vappower 18350 750mah


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



recDNA said:


> I want to test maH of my older batteries to see if it is time to dump them. Will this do that without a degree in electrical engineering to figure out how?
> 
> 
> You know what? I think *I have read enough to know this is too hard*.



The charger is very easy to use and you can quickly learn to program it to do everything you want. Be sure you read the conclusion of the HKJ review. The MC3000 is a superb charger/analyzer, in a class by itself, and highly recommended for anyone that wants the best.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Milw light said:


> Thanks Albert, one of my concerns is updating this too. When you are running Vista Home I think a person is sunk. This should be a good investment though.



I'm running Windows Vista 64-bit. PCLS display problem I have isn't related to the OS. The problem is the software is written for a 1080p monitor. My 720p display monitor won't recognize 1080 video signals. PCLS needs the video resolution set to 1080 or a video resolution that's close to 1080. As you change video resolution from an OS the video output signals produced by a video adapter are changed accordingly. 

My cell screen was unintelligible, (with the main screen's bottom cell cut-off) after experimenting with different fonts and text dpi plus a few other settings I was able to get the cell configuration screen working. 

Vista 64 bit has been 100 percent compatible with all my 32 and 64 bit programs. I've never had any problems loading drivers, using serial devices, etc. Windows 8 and 10 on the other hand potentially has problems with some types of programming. 

The only problems I've ever run into is programming written for Windows 7 & 8 - 10 64-Bit, not backward compatible to Windows Vista 64-Bit. Some user's have reported problems running their Windows 7 programs under Windows 8 & 10. I don't know this is pretty common. All OS's have had problems over generations of upgrades. Upgrade problems have occurred with Windows since Windows 1.x ... I've been running, upgrading, installation & modifying OSs since before GUI operating systems came into existence. It's much more streamlined today, years ago alot of configuration was required, often there were no hardware drivers available, etc.

I don't foresee any USB problem with my older PC's USB 2.0 host controller. My USB HUBs and ports are either USB 1.1 or USB 2.0. Apparently some PCs are having problems with their USB 3.0 Host controller which is comprised of one USB 3.0 HUB and one USB 2.0 HUB, for backward compatibility. Potential loading of USB drivers conflicts occur and a USB 2.0 device may not be recognized while the USB 3.0 HUB is enabled.

Windows 8 and 10 cores are almost the same, the main difference is the Windows GUI Manager. I have a Windows 8 upgrade that could be installed and upgraded to Windows 10 on my current PC. However, I'm not going to install Windows 8 or 10 until I have a PC with more recent hardware architecture.


----------



## Milw light

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Do you care about how many C you're putting into your batteries? Do you want to see pretty graphs of he charge?
> 
> If you just want to charge batteries, this charger is way way overkill. But if you want to tweak every little thing and know every little detail about your batteries, this is the one to get.


I'd like to work up to that. I wanted to be sure I could use it in the meantime....thanks.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Albert, sorry you still don't have your MC3000. Where do you live? To answer your questions, read the first paragraph on page 16 of the MC3000 Manual. The unit has six temperature sensors, two are on the Heatsink and the others are on each of the four slots. The results can be displayed in ℉ or ℃. I haven't felt any need to measure battery temperature with my Laser Temperature Gauge. The batteries have always been cool to the touch. The battery temperature seldom gets to as high as 100℉.




From user's manual.

"
SysTemp→ #1,#2 → #3,#4 → ... 

Shows the temperature as recorded by temperature sensors placed right at the internal aluminum cooler and as reported by the 4 sensors at the slots. Note that these are correct values at the sensors themselves and cannot be precisely the spatial temperature average of the targets of interest. Since it is practically impossible to isolate thermal paths in a compact 4-bay charger, heat may reach the different sensors from various directions and sources, hence actual battery temperature will be higher or lower than indicated, depending on the complex charging and the environmental situation.
_________

Temp Unit

Lets the user choose the preferred temperature unit to be displayed in GSV, SPV, SOV, and elsewhere.
_____

BattTemp

Shows the battery temperature, or to be more precise, the slot temperature. Same value as seen in GSV, it mostly serves as safety feature for battery overheat protection. To change the temperature unit, go to GSV and change Temp Unit. Note that physically, temperature is a scalar field quantity, i.e. any point on the battery surface will have a different temperature and depending on the charging situation and your environment, the extreme temperature points on your battery may be notably cooler or warmer than the single value given here.
_____________

SysTemp

Shows the internal system temperature. Same value as seen in GSV, it serves as safety feature for device overheat protection. At full load it can go as high as 80°C or higher and will shut down operation thereabout. The cooling fan is controlled by this value.
________

TOV = total overview 
IMV = info message view in TOV 
UCV = user calibration view in TOV 
SOV = slot operation view 
SPV = slot programming view 
GSV = global setup view 
DDV = diagram drawing view 

"

Apparently the "Operating Temperature" specification is a min. & max. ambient room temperature range.

Battery Temperature: 20°C ~ 70°C safety cut-off (+ safety net) (68 deg. F ~ 158 deg F.) 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Temperature: 85°C safety net (185 deg. F)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operating Temperature: 0°C ~ 40°C ventilated room (32 deg. F ~ 104 deg. F)


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Could someone who knows more about this stuff than me answer a quick question?
Why is the target voltage for NiMh batteries set at 1.65 volts? Mine always terminate around 1.53 and quickly drop to around 1.47. I'm assuming it's because the termination is not based on actual voltage?
Thanks for any insight.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



millguy said:


> Could someone who knows more about this stuff than me answer a quick question?
> Why is the target voltage for NiMh batteries set at 1.65 volts? Mine always terminate around 1.53 and quickly drop to around 1.47. I'm assuming it's because the termination is not based on actual voltage?
> Thanks for any insight.


It terminates earlier because of delta peak. 
If you want to reach higher voltage , increase the value. 3-5mv is recommended value.
With high delta peak you risk overheating the battery if it is an old one


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks. So the target voltage is set high because the termination method ensures it will never actually reach that voltage?


----------



## Milw light

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Maybe there is hope for this old computer then Albert. I will probably get this charger as I don't think I will outgrow it anytime soon.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



millguy said:


> Thanks. So the target voltage is set high because the termination method ensures it will never actually reach that voltage?


There might be some batteries that can go up to 1.65, i dont know.
My guess is that they used 1.65 with 3mv delta peak as default, so it covers most of scenarios. Newer cells wont be restricted by voltage cutout and older ones wont be stressed much with 3mv delta peak.
The great thing is that we got an uber charger that can change almost every value , so we can always experiment what fits the bill best, right


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Got it. 
Thank you for the information.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> How do you come to this conclusion? "lower" .. do you mean in reference/comparison to your DMM measurement? If you set TARGET VOLT 1.47V, then mc3k will terminate when mc3k measures 1.47V. when mc3k measures 1.43V, then mc3k will not terminate. So you mean that your DMM is measuring "1.43V" (in this example) after taking out the battery? Sure, that would be natural, if you have not matched your DMM and mc3k thru the User Calibration.
> 
> Today i finished testing and verifying the bug fixes in 1.04ceita. 2-3 new minor bugs discovered on the way, k#34-36. :huh:



When terminating on voltage (only tested NiMH) the charger terminates slightly lower than what you ask it too....and the higher the C you use the greater the differential....

My DMM reads perfectly, so does the charger.....test it in the charger Squirrel.....setup a termination at say 1.45v with 0.4C (1amp) on an eneloop pro and the battery will read about 1.43v even in the charger.

This is not a problem mind you.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Milw light said:


> Maybe there is hope for this old computer then Albert. I will probably get this charger as I don't think I will outgrow it anytime soon.



After reading through the manual I get a feeling the author and creators of the charger want to take users to another level learning and understanding of batteries and charging. The user's manual a little difficult to read at first until becoming familiar with the acronyms and abbreviations, some of which are used with the chargers UI.








When plugging in and use, you may want to make note of details from the User Manual's - Warning and Safety Precautions and Quick Start Guide.

"


> Warning and Safety Precautions
> 
> Remove all batteries and unplug the charging unit from the power source when not in use.
> 
> Operating Instructions
> 
> Proper handling suggests that all batteries be removed prior to operation.
> 
> First connect the 11~18V(60W or more) DC power adapter plug to the device, then plug the 110/220V AC power cable plug into the mains wall socket. In this order. The device boots up and displays the “UI Mode Selection.



"


----------



## dssguy1

Pointless discussion


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Probably because you had fake Chinese knockoffs. I have a bunch of eneloops and they last forever and many are 5+ years old.


I think you missed the joke.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> When terminating on voltage (only tested NiMH) the charger terminates slightly lower than what you ask it too....and the higher the C you use the greater the differential....
> 
> My DMM reads perfectly, so does the charger.....test it in the charger Squirrel.....setup a termination at say 1.45v with 0.4C (1amp) on an eneloop pro and the battery will read about 1.43v even in the charger.
> 
> This is not a problem mind you.


Are you measuring the battery voltage after the load is off, after the charger has terminated?
If that is the case, it is normal for voltage to drop a bit.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



millguy said:


> Could someone who knows more about this stuff than me answer a quick question?
> Why is the target voltage for NiMh batteries set at 1.65 volts? Mine always terminate around 1.53 and quickly drop to around 1.47. I'm assuming it's because the termination is not based on actual voltage?
> Thanks for any insight.



I think 1.65 V is a cautelative setting
to avoid premature charging termination
(caused by voltage cutoff)
on cells with high internal resistance


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> (k#36) sometimes a finishing slot would not produce a completion beep, for example: only the 1st NiMH charge finish gets completion beep; so while discharging it, the other 3 slots finished charge without completion beep (UNCONFIRMED)


I observed this bug several times with NiMH Charge but i can't find a procedure to reproduce it reliably. It is not something important or urgent, or does anyone miss the 'Finished slot' program completion beeping? 
Did you notice too that sometimes a slot shows finished (green SNB) and you can't remember having heard the completion beeping?

We might be hunting this bug all year long. It is there, it exists, that's why i've assigned an official k-number on the list to raise awareness. All k-numbers mean that they have been submitted to the maker team. I wasn't lucky with my re-hunting, maybe they are luckier since they're the code maker and should know better than me with my random testings. Crossing fingers.

I am giving up on this one for now. With much much luck this (unimportant) bug will have been exterminated in the 1.04 release. And if not, let's take it with humor and positively: the less completion beeping in de house, the more peace and tranquility in de family.




Moving on. kreisl.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Are you measuring the battery voltage after the load is off, after the charger has terminated?
> If that is the case, it is normal for voltage to drop a bit.



The resting voltage must be measured....you can't measure the battery voltage too well when the charger is loading it with a higher voltage, only when it drops the charge.

It terminates lower than what's set....and no, the battery has not "lost" voltage.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just received the following message from Support at SkyRC.

Hello Bill,

Thank you very much for your information.
I have forwarded your message to PCLS engineer. And I will check with him
next Monday.

Thanks & Best Regards,


Karl Peng
Sales Department
SkyRC Technology Co., Ltd.
4/F,Building NO.6, Meitai Industry Park,Guanguang south road,Guihua,Guanlan,
Baoan district,Shenzhen,China / 518110
T:0755-83860222-806 F:0755-81702090
Email:[email protected]
www.skyrc.com

======================

To: Support <[email protected]>

Do you plan to add image resizing to the MC3000 PCLS. My laptop has 1366x768 maximum resolution. The bottom 1/4 of the screen is cut off. When I save the image it is OK. On the CandlepowerForum, many other have commented on this issue.

Thanks


----------



## dssguy1

Pointless discussion


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> Don't think I did. Nobody spelled Eneloop wrong like he is hinting. And if he was going for "envelope", then he himself spelled that wrong.
> 
> So if I needed to double decipher two problems with his "joke", then I guess you're right I "missed it".
> 
> Go back to arguing incredibly minuscule details about the charger.



Quote Originally Posted by billcushman View Post
Devon, I too have lot of Envelops, probably about 40 AA and 16 AAA- I seldom need to charge more than four at a time. I have two MC3000s and if needed I also have two C9000 (9 years old). I also have a Liitokala Lii-500 and a Nitecore D4. At present the two MC3000 are all I use. If I used all six chargers I could charge 24 Envelops at the same time. In my case this will never be necessary. Charging a large number of batteries at once is normally only required by someone maintaining batteries for a fleet of flashlights that are used heavily every day.

I edited the original message #2418 shortly after Devon's reply and corrected the spelling of eneloop. I actually didn't type it wrong. The operating system auto spell corrector changed it to envelop and I didn't notice the change.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can anyone explain. in li-ion program. Whats with the max termination voltage of 4.25v? Is it within specs for 4.2v cells? I never realized it went up that high. Just checking the safety features of this charger.

Once again,
Thanks


----------



## Anders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Li-ion with the traditional cathode materials of cobalt, nickel, manganese and aluminum typically charge to 4.20V/cell. The tolerance is +/–50mV/cell.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

Anders


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Anders said:


> Li-ion with the traditional cathode materials of cobalt, nickel, manganese and aluminum typically charge to 4.20V/cell. The tolerance is +/–50mV/cell.
> http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
> 
> Anders



That answered my question. Has anyone bothered to set termination current to "Zero"?

Thanks

:thumbsup:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

of course it is not 0.00000000000A

but the current, if rounded on paper to 1 decimal, is indeed 0.0A. So. Zero. haha


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> of course it is not 0.00000000000A
> 
> but the current, if rounded on paper to 1 decimal, is indeed 0.0A. So. Zero. haha



Strange how it says Zero lol. This charger is really capable of topping-off your cells. I thought 50mA was low enough.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

In the current firmware Zero is around 8mA, not lower. In older firmwares it was much lower as recorded by my DMM in a mc3k slot, happy to share this 1.5yr old pic:









This was on the old hardware old firmware. I think that this could be done on the current hardware too but since mc3k is now a public commercial product the maker is less willing to release such experimental extremes.

8mA is good for now, i'd agree.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

MaroJP, please check your private messages.

I have been using PCLS on Windows 10 with a Monoprice Premium 3 foot cable for the last several hours running a discharge test. PCLS works perfectly with no problems of any kind.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> 8mA is good for now, i'd agree.



Good to know that Zero is not a 0 lol.


----------



## C & R

As a new member it takes a while to catch up on some of the threads. Reading all 2453 posts took me a few days off and on.


Thanks you Kreisl for your efforts in making this happen and sticking with it! I hope SkyRC understands how valuable you have been in supporting the product and providing a sounding board for the users.


I also want to thank the various members that have added so much to this thread.


Now off to order one from progressiverc.com


----------



## billcushman

C & R said:


> As a new member it takes a while to catch up on some of the threads. Reading all 2453 posts took me a few days off and on.
> 
> 
> Thanks you Kreisl for your efforts in making this happen and sticking with it! I hope SkyRC understands how valuable you have been in supporting the product and providing a sounding board for the users.
> 
> 
> I also want to thank the various members that have added so much to this thread.
> 
> 
> Now off to order one from progressiverc.com



Welcome to the forum. Be sure to download PCLS at ProgressiveRC. It is much easier because it is the .exe file directly. At the SkyRC site you get the .rar zip file. If your display isn't at least vertical 1000 pixels , the bottom of the screen will be cut off but everything works fine. On PCLS, the STAR button is START (that caused me to not recognize it). When you save the finished report, everything will be there. I recommend a Momoprice Premium USB cable if you encounter Cable Problems. PCLS works perfectly on my low cost Windows 10 computer. Have fun.

You should have your MC3000 Wednesday if you are a Prime member. Let us know if you need any help. My Quick Guide (many pages back) may help you write some useful programs, if you have difficulty.


----------



## mrQQ

the monitor software should really really prevent windows from sleeping while it's running, otherwise it ruins the whole logging session. Any idea where to report this?


----------



## Devon

mrQQ said:


> the monitor software should really really prevent windows from sleeping while it's running, otherwise it ruins the whole logging session. Any idea where to report this?



Not a bug really, it's an OS issue in that you need to setup how your PC behaves I would have thought.


----------



## DeJaVu

Devon said:


> Not a bug really, it's an OS issue in that you need to setup how your PC behaves I would have thought.


Maybe not a bug, but a missing functionality. As the pc going to sleep actually disrupts the app, it should be able to keep it awake.


----------



## kreisl

DeJaVu said:


> Maybe not a bug, but a missing functionality. As the pc going to sleep actually disrupts the app, it should be able to keep it awake.



my XP OS runs with the following settings for 39h+ (Break_in operation mode) and no problems:






problem solved. done.


----------



## DeJaVu

kreisl said:


> my XP OS runs with the following settings for 39h+ (Break_in operation mode) and no problems:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> problem solved. done.


Understandable that it can be done through os settings, but it would be way more convenient if the soft would have the ability to keep the pc awake.
I have sleep disabled in my system, but there are people that need the pc to go to sleep under certain scenarios. So they shouldnt have to enable/disable sleep in CP each time they use PCLS (Some might not even know how).

My thoughts are that skyrc should add that, so there is one area less for potencial annoyances.
Im not an programmer, but I suppose it shouldnt be hard to do that when they revise pcls. If it is unrealisticaly hard, then alas, well have to live with it.


----------



## mrQQ

DeJaVu said:


> Understandable that it can be done through os settings, but it would be way more convenient if the soft would have the ability to keep the pc awake.
> I have sleep disabled in my system, but there are people that need the pc to go to sleep under certain scenarios. So they shouldnt have to enable/disable sleep in CP each time they use PCLS (Some might not even know how).
> 
> My thoughts are that skyrc should add that, so there is one area less for potencial annoyances.
> Im not an programmer, but I suppose it shouldnt be hard to do that when they revise pcls. If it is unrealisticaly hard, then alas, well have to live with it.



An application has a way to tell the OS not to sleep while it (or part of it) is running. Torrent clients, backup software and many others work like that. Most of laptops normally have sleep enabled, and you're not supposed to ask user to change OS settings each time they want to use the Monitor app.


----------



## kreisl

okok you win guys

i've added it to de list :wave:


----------



## Albert_

You can run MC3000_monitor.exe from a batch file, disabling and re-enabling standby

e.g.

Create a batch file in the same directory as mc3000_monitor.exe 

MC3000_Monitor.cmd 

@echo off
pushd c:\(path to batch_file and mc3000_monitor.exe)
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -standby-timeout-ac 0
MC3000_monitor.exe
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -standby-timeout-ac ?? 
exit

(?? = timeout in mins)

powercfg.exe should be located your system32 folder, has other command line options.

zero "0" parameter disables timeouts.

c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -monitor-timeout-ac 0
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -monitor-timeout-dc 0
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -disk-timeout-ac 0
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -disk-timeout-dc 0
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -standby-timeout-ac 0
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -standby-timeout-dc 0
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -hibernate-timeout-ac 0
c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -hibernate-timeout-dc 0 

powercfg.exe -list (lists your current power schemes)

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc748940(v=ws.10).aspx
___________

A couple other commands I sometimes use from batch files to control the desktop, screensaver, lock workstation, etc.

is "reg add" and "rundll32.exe"

e.g. to start a screensaver and lock the workstation.

C:\Windows\System32\Mystify -s
C:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe user32.dll, LockWorkStation

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/rundll32-shortcut-commands-windows

disable, enable screensaver

reg add “HKCU\Control Panel\Desktop” /v ScreenSaveActive /t REG_SZ /d 0 /f
reg add “HKCU\Control Panel\Desktop” /v ScreenSaveActive /t REG_SZ /d 1 /f

You can also change the default power scheme from the registry

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\PowerCfg]
"CurrentPowerPolicy"="2" ;Power Scheme (Default="0")
; "0" = Home/Office Desk
; "1" = Portable/Laptop
; "2" = Presentation
; "3" = Always On
; "4" = Minimal Power Management
; "5" = Max Battery

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc742162.aspx
http://ss64.com/nt/reg.html

type "reg /?" for reg command line options 
________________

Some PC's the BIOS settings overide the OS settings and you may need to disable BIOS power configuration & timeouts.


----------



## DeJaVu

Albert_ said:


> You can run MC3000_monitor.exe from a batch file, disabling and re-enabling standby
> 
> e.g.
> 
> Create a batch file in the same directory as mc3000_monitor.exe
> 
> MC3000_Monitor.cmd
> 
> @echo off
> pushd c:\(path to batch_file and mc3000_monitor.exe)
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -standby-timeout-ac 0
> MC3000_monitor.exe
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -standby-timeout-ac ??
> exit
> 
> (?? = timeout in mins)
> 
> powercfg.exe should be located your system32 folder, has other command line options.
> 
> zero "0" parameter disables timeouts.
> 
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -monitor-timeout-ac 0
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -monitor-timeout-dc 0
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -disk-timeout-ac 0
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -disk-timeout-dc 0
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -standby-timeout-ac 0
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -standby-timeout-dc 0
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -hibernate-timeout-ac 0
> c:\windows\system32\powercfg.exe -change -hibernate-timeout-dc 0
> 
> powercfg.exe -list (lists your current power schemes)
> 
> https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc748940(v=ws.10).aspx
> ___________


Yep, definately the best solution.
Skyrc must iclude this guide in next manual revision, together with a pc course voucher.


----------



## mrQQ

Well, I'm having trouble so far. My second run failed again. This time I have no clue what happened. See attached image:







The first battery was R6 primary, discharging ended properly at 0.9v with expected capacity of 600mAh.

The second battery was LR6 primary with capacity of over 1500mAh. However, just 20 seconds later, the second discharge stopped at exact same capacity with mysterious error of NiMH Error: Battery Break!

what the hell just happened? I've wasted another cycle now 

edit: well thats not even the worst problem.. I've saved the data, the CSV file is completely EMPTY:



Code:


#1;Time;Voltage(V);Curent(A);Capacity(mAh);Batt.Temp(C);#2;Time;Voltage(V);Curent(A);Capacity(mAh);Batt.Temp(C);#3;Time;Voltage(V);Curent(A);Capacity(mAh);Batt.Temp(C);#4;Time;Voltage(V);Curent(A);Capacity(mAh);Batt.Temp(C)
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
.......... and so on



Come on, I bought this device for this exact purpose!


----------



## mrQQ

well, ignore the part about why the second discharge stopped - my wife took it out, after hearing the first beep. Question - why does it keep beeping?

and most importantly, why did it fail to save CSV data for the first complete discharge?


----------



## DeJaVu

mrQQ said:


> Well, I'm having trouble so far. My second run failed again. This time I have no clue what happened. See attached image:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first battery was R6 primary, discharging ended properly at 0.9v with expected capacity of 600mAh.
> 
> The second battery was LR6 primary with capacity of over 1500mAh. However, just 20 seconds later, the second discharge stopped at exact same capacity with mysterious error of NiMH Error: Battery Break!
> 
> what the hell just happened? I've wasted another cycle now
> 
> edit: well thats not even the worst problem.. I've saved the data, the CSV file is completely EMPTY:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> #1;Time;Voltage(V);Curent(A);Capacity(mAh);Batt.Temp(C);#2;Time;Voltage(V);Curent(A);Capacity(mAh);Batt.Temp(C);#3;Time;Voltage(V);Curent(A);Capacity(mAh);Batt.Temp(C);#4;Time;Voltage(V);Curent(A);Capacity(mAh);Batt.Temp(C)
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> .......... and so on
> 
> 
> 
> Come on, I bought this device for this exact purpose!


Battery break means the battery lost contact at some point, and by looking at the time that happened on the pic , it was right when you removed your first battery from the charger. You must have nudged it.
When break happens, the charger doesnt automaticaly resume, you need to restart the program.

As for the csv, try opening it with Microsoft office excel. I had similar giberish when opening it through built in dropbox viewer so something similar might be happening at your side.


----------



## kreisl

mrQQ said:


> well, ignore the part about why the second discharge stopped - my wife took it out, after hearing the first beep. Question - why does it keep beeping?
> 
> and most importantly, why did it fail to save CSV data for the first complete discharge?


So your wife took out the battery from slot#2 and then PCLS threw a Battery Break error for slot#2 ? hmmm :thinking:

When a slot has finished, the charger does some beeping, usually. There is some bug (k#36) in the firmware though. And upon error (like "Connection Break"), there is some beeping for error indication too. I didn't check how long it continues to beep upon error.

The empty CSV .. okay i had that sometimes too. What you can do is: while PCLS is logging, already hit the SAVE button and check the (temporary) CSV file if it is filled with data (as expected), then delete it. when PCLS has finished logging, then hit SAVE button again and you can be sure that the CSV is complete too, filled with data. And, i always exit PCLS and relaunch it before doing a new serious PCLS logging run .. it's like rebooting WindowsPC. A freshly booted WinPC runs better than a etc 

Rebooting Windows, relaunching PCLS, is lame?

You can try the 3.2.5 DEX version which should come out in 1-2 weeks.


----------



## mrQQ

Yea, I left it discharging at home. It finished discharging first slot and started beeping, and according to her, continued beeping without a top, so it went and took the batteries out. THen the second slot threw break error :/

Can the beeping be disabled completely as to not annoy her anymore?

what is 3.2.5 DEX version?

will hitting Save not interrupt anything? next Save will include data saved with previous save or not?

I think this needs solving...


----------



## kreisl

hehe. easy questions to answer, so i am happy that i can answer them. hh

Yes, beeping can be disabled completely, go into SETUP (GSV) and find the item, set the OFF parameter.
DEX is short for DataExplorer, version 3.2.4 introduced mc3k support for the 1st time.
Hitting SAVE will *not* interrupt anything, fortunately. And the next SAVE will include data saved with previous save.


----------



## mrQQ

well at least we can disable the beep! that's a start.

So DEX 3.2.4 does not work then?

DeJaVu - it's not giberrish. It's just empty. Correct number of lines, but not a single value in them.


----------



## kreisl

DEX 3.2.4 works with mc3k but there are DEX bugs in the support of mc3k and with the continued development of DEX, the DEX support of mc3k will get better and better to full maturity status.


----------



## Mr Floppy

kreisl said:


> DEX 3.2.4 works with mc3k but there are DEX bugs in the support of mc3k and with the continued development of DEX, the DEX support of mc3k will get better and better to full maturity status.



Since you are in contact with the developer, can you get him to get a raspberry Pi and make a version for one of our members? It was just one library that didn't work. I found an arm version and compiled my own but on starting Dex, it segmentation faults. Not sure if it's because I don't have a mc3k connected. Well I don't even have one...


----------



## Devon

Just opened a twin pack of Powerizer D cell made in China. NiMH 10000mAh

I have had these sitting on my shelf in their shrink wrap for almost 10yrs now. 1 measured .48v the other .54v . Calculated IR of 10mOhms and 189mOhms

Have just put them through their first charge discharge and got a respectable 4000mAh from them before I received the battery connection error on discharge down around 1.1v

Am charging at 3 amps and discharging at 2 amps.


----------



## Devon

Where can I find the latest firmware?

Am using MC300 Monitor V1.01 and it can't find the firmware via the Internet message.

Thanks


----------



## kreisl

Devon said:


> before I received the battery connection error on discharge down around 1.1v


Connection Break error? Maybe your battery lost connection? Or did you confuse it with Capacity Cut error?

10mOhms is incorrect. With the new fw you can retrieve IR measurement repeatedly without starting any programs in the slots. One only needs to hit (not press or click) UP&DOWN buttons together. Why hitting (ouch)? You'll see, you'll see. i luv it.

Currently there is no mc3k firmware binary on the server. The updated firmware version will be made accessible on the firmware server in a few days i guess. We're waiting :tinfoil:

Meanwhile, let's watch some eps of Better Call Saul.


----------



## bosko90

Today I received my charger   damn it's huge xD I ordered the HK 14 days ago.


----------



## kreisl

congrats bosko90. yeah, big thing.

you could check if your fan blows upwards (cielo) or downwards (tierra).


----------



## bosko90

I test right now. fan blowing up  i put sheet of paper next to. But it's strange to me That I discharge 2 battey 0,8 Amp and fan turn on. You spokethat is problem on 4x 1 amp. (sorry for my english).

Ps: when inserting the batteries the backlight turns on automatically


----------



## kreisl

If you live in Alaska, fan not turn on 2 battery 0,8 Amp 

Otherwise fan must turn on at 50°C SysTemp, that's correct so.

( the 'problem' was: 4x 1 amp, discharge, and the 1 amp getting reduced because of SysTemp reaching 85°C threshold )

Where you live?


----------



## bosko90

Oh i forgot. I do not know what I thought, that then turns on. :$
Fan makes little vibration. Phone app work well on the Galaxy S4 (old Android 4.4.2). iIn the future I will tested the pc app


----------



## kreisl

bosko90 said:


> Fan makes little vibration.


It shouldn't make vibration.
One could open the charger case and check. Perfectly seated, no vibration. Not a bad idea to check the installation and improve the assembly. On other forums they call it flashlight modding.


----------



## gyzmo2002

On a C>D>C, does the cut time if for the full cycle (tC+tD+tC)? I just had the cut time error. FW1.02

Usually I use 1A charge/discharge for GA and set it to 360min without error. It took around 4.5hours for the last charge. 

I juste tried the same cells at 650ma and set it to 480min. The error happened at 2.45hours of the last charge.

4.20-2.50-4.20
60ma d. reduced


----------



## bosko90

I mod some Flashlights, but They are cheap. I do not know it is god idea, That i open new expensive charger. maybe someday  is the fan standard size? I read that is 15V


----------



## kreisl

:thinking:


----------



## kreisl

bosko90 said:


> is the fan standard size? I read that is 15V



you can leave the fan in piece (30x30x7mm). the vibration is from improper seating by assembly person, not from quality of fan.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> i understand your problem.
> 
> i can't remember the answer.
> 
> we should check the manual.



I know it is written total time in the manual but there is something wrong between my 2 statements before.

If it took 4,5heure for a charge, I should have the cut time error if I set it to 360min for a C>D>C
(2x4.5=9.0hours...540min? But never had it.


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> I know it is written total time in the manual but there is something wrong between my 2 statements before.
> 
> If it took 4,5heure for a charge, I should have the cut time error if I set it to 360min for a C>D>C
> (2x4.5=9.0hours...540min? But never had it.


ok got it, you might have encountered a bug. i have listed it under (k#39), thanks!!

lovecpf


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> ok got it, you might have encountered a bug. i have listed it under (k#39), thanks!!
> 
> lovecpf



I always thinking it was for only the C or D or C because never had it before. I was thinking that was a manual error.

It is a weird bug if it is. Today I tried a lower charge/discharge setting and increased the time but the cut time error happened at 2.45hours of the last charge. I don't understand this "bug". It's like sometime the time is working, sometime not....


----------



## bosko90

ok. After using a little bit more android app, i saw that is realy poor :/


----------



## tjh

bosko90 said:


> ok. After using a little bit more android app, i saw that is realy poor :/


It sure is. They almost shouldn't be allowed to advertise it has a Bluetooth app.
It's like a high school student has coded it as his first ever app. It could get better.... If it was rewritten from scratch.


----------



## bosko90

I totally agree. I hope to improve. PC app is the same. Do you think that they create PC app like for other hobby chargers? those look good to me.


----------



## N8PU

After reading the first page about this charger and reading the three reviews on this charger I went ahead and ordered it off Amazon, I should have it in a couple of days. The main reason I wanted a 'smart charger' is I have some older NiMH batteries laying around and was hoping this charger can put some 'new life' in them. Any speculation on if that might be possible?


----------



## Devon

tjh said:


> It sure is. They almost shouldn't be allowed to advertise it has a Bluetooth app.
> It's like a high school student has coded it as his first ever app. It could get better.... If it was rewritten from scratch.



I am using a Samsung note 4 (excellent phone) and a Samsung note 12.1 tablet. (Androids)

On both devices the bluetooth is easier to write programs and to use than the interface on the charger, a much flatter learning curve for sure. And it works pretty well with only a few minor bugs (losing programed slots, eg prog for slots 1 and 4 and when you bring the program up again slot 4 is missing although it will run on slot 4)...

The pc software has its bugs also but doesn't offer the parameters that bluetooth does. 

Do not try running it via USB if you have a bluetooth device switched on anywhere near it. This seems to cause it problems big time.


----------



## tjh

Devon said:


> I am using a Samsung note 4 (excellent phone) and a Samsung note 12.1 tablet. (Androids)
> 
> On both devices the bluetooth is easier to write programs and to use than the interface on the charger, a much flatter learning curve for sure. And it works pretty well with only a few minor bugs (losing programed slots, eg prog for slots 1 and 4 and when you bring the program up again slot 4 is missing although it will run on slot 4)...
> 
> The pc software has its bugs also but doesn't offer the parameters that bluetooth does.
> 
> Do not try running it via USB if you have a bluetooth device switched on anywhere near it. This seems to cause it problems big time.



The apps works, yes, there's no doubt. I agree it's much easier to use the app than the PC software to quickly set all 4 slots the same.

But the interface is mental. Look at the insane options you get to select voltage etc. A choice of 200 individual settings. Why not a scroll wheel, or allow the current to be put in manually with some error checking? They have picked the most bizarre UI to do some things it. It's buggy, crashes, buttons don't work etc.

The app should be easy to use, not just functional. At the moment it's functional, but a nightmare to use, you can't edit some things once set etc.

The good news of course is that it can only get better. I just hope it does.


----------



## scout24

The baiting is bad enough, the f-bomb was inexcusable. Take a few days off.

EDIT- In light of the public apology, you'll be back tomorrow night. Let's shake hands, make up, and move on, ok? :grouphug:


----------



## tjh

Yea, sorry, good point.
I was an idiot. Apologies to Devon.


----------



## Minimoog

N8PU said:


> After reading the first page about this charger and reading the three reviews on this charger I went ahead and ordered it off Amazon, I should have it in a couple of days. The main reason I wanted a 'smart charger' is I have some older NiMH batteries laying around and was hoping this charger can put some 'new life' in them. Any speculation on if that might be possible?



I have some old batteries too that I charged on this unit. Some charge ok, but just don't have the capacity any more to be useful (which you can work out by doing a discharge run). Mind you I saved some 2006 2400mAh NiMh batteries which were in my battery recycle box and I now have around 2300mAh. It al depends on the cell - some are just too tired to be useful any more.


----------



## chemEJoe

N8PU said:


> ... I have some older NiMH batteries laying around and was hoping this charger can put some 'new life' in them. Any speculation on if that might be possible?



I've run about 20 old Lenmar NiMH AA and AAA batteries through the Refresh cycle using recommended settings by HKJ in his review.

I am not doing PC logging as I am on Mac, so I wasn't able to see for each battery the histories of the runs. But, overall, I recycled about 3. And, I get it that Lenmars are cheap so would love others' input on what you think.

I did keep cutoff v at 1.65. The only question that came up was I got cycle time cutoffs, and I wasn't sure if the refresh C>D>C includes all the time for each, or if the Refresh time is just for the C part. I just pushed to start forward from the cutoff.

I get my GB NCR18650B protecteds today or tomorrow, so I'll be moving onto that for now. It will be good to see those batteries run a few cycles on bike lamps. Any advice on this application or the NiMH would be great. I plan to set up my charger in dummy mode so my son can use it for NiMH, and switch it to Advanced to charge my Li Ions. Now that I have this charger, I'd be looking to buy better NiMH as I will be ablet to maintain those in good order. My past charger was about a $40 Lenmar, and it blasted the batteries for 15 mins with a fan going. I would guess now that I've learned more about battery ops, that was blasting my cheap batteries. No wonder all these years, I've been feeling that rechargables are not consistent.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Where is the 1.04 bug fixes list? I saw it somewhere on this thread but can't find it. I am curious what changes are being made.

Thanks.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Where is the 1.04 bug fixes list? I saw it somewhere on this thread but can't find it. I am curious what changes are being made.
> 
> Thanks.


The third or fourth post on page 1.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

A new (version 2.8) of the Android app has been released. I'm not near my charger so I can't test it


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@kreisl Heres an idea about improving the mobile app that you could run by your palls at SkyRC.

At the moment you need to create the programs for each slot individually and/or remake the program for all posible combinations of slots.
It would be way more clutter free and convenient if when you press the program, they add a selection at which slot/slots the program should be run next to the start button.
This way you create the program with chemistry and current once.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Downloaded the update and immediately noticed some fixes for ver 2.8

-battery stats updates every second now
-Bluetooth connection to charger has been improved
-Adding of program now includes features that were missing on previous version
-when tapping back while in the battery stat screen. App now disconnects from charger instead of closing, making it easier to reconnect without having to launch the app again.

And here is what's not fixed.

The app will only connect to the first charger on the list if you have more than 1. trying to connect to the second charger will cause the app to get stuck on loading. Temp workaround is to refresh the connection until the charger you want to connect becomes first on the list.

That is what i've noticed so far.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Does anyone know why is the charger soft limited discharging 2x batteries at 1A if its capable of doing 2A on a slot, and also capable of going up to 4A in 4x1A config?
It should be able doing 2x2A, or am i wrong...


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Does anyone know why is the charger soft limited discharging 2x batteries at 1A if its capable of doing 2A on a slot, and also capable of going up to 4A in 4x1A config?
> It should be able doing 2x2A, or am i wrong...



The charger is rated 15watts max for discharge and 50watts max for charge


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> The charger is rated 15watts max for discharge and 50watts max for charge


I know what it is rated for, but still.
Read the message once again , and you will understand the logic behind the question.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> I know what it is rated for, but still.
> Read the message once again , and you will understand the logic behind the question.



Yes, I know what you mean now. Good question but I don't have the answer for now. Probably a software issue. I have FW1.02 with the 1A limitation too.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Surely it's because to discharge, the charger converts the energy to heat. It can't do too much of this or things melt/catch fire etc.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes, I know what you mean now. Good question but I don't have the answer for now. Probably a software issue. I have FW1.02 with the 1A limitation too.


Im asking because i found a way to run 2x2A discharge(posibly 3-4 too but im scared to try with more than 2 ) , so i was wondering if there is a good reason it is disabled. 
Or as you say, they might have missed enabling it and might become an easily accesible option in a later firmware.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Surely it's because to discharge, the charger converts the energy to heat. It can't do too much of this or things melt/catch fire etc.


And what would the heat difference be between 4x1A and 2x2A ? 
In both situations is around 16w that needs to be cooled


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Im asking because i found a way to run 2x2A discharge(posibly 3-4 too but im scared to try with more than 2 ) , so i was wondering if there is a good reason it is disabled.
> Or as you say, they might have missed enabling it and might become an easily accesible option in a later firmware.


Heat!

Are you sure you're not confusing the fact you can discharge 4 NiMH batteries at 2Amps, with trying to discharge multiple LiON batteries (higher voltage!) at 2A?


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Heat!
> 
> Are you sure you're not confusing the fact you can discharge 4 NiMH batteries at 2Amps, with trying to discharge multiple LiON batteries (higher voltage!) at 2A?


Forgot to name the battery chemistry, im talking about Li-ion


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Does anyone know why is the charger soft limited discharging 2x batteries at 1A if its capable of doing 2A on a slot, and also capable of going up to 4A in 4x1A config?
> It should be able doing 2x2A, or am i wrong...


i know what you mean.

4x(-2A) is supported for NiMH chemistry because of lower voltage, as you know.
1x(-2A) is supported for LiIon chemistry and if other slots try to discharge at max load, e.g. 3x(-1.01A) LiIon, then it feels logical that the load is reduced to 4x(-1.00A) LiIon. 
In theory yes 2x(-2.00A) LiIon should be possible and may be offered in future firmware. Shifting the boundaries, e.g. to 2x(-2.00A) LiIon or to lower min. discharge current, -0.01A instead of -0.05A official spec, will be considered and tested, experimented with, in future, rest assured. I've added your idea to the list. But until then it be more important to focus all efforts on debugging the firmware. KISS principle, it was probably easier to implement just 1x(-2A) as exceptional case in the code and move on with the development, nothing but a practical matter. Originally no 2amps discharging was intended for LiIon chemistry to keep things even simpler for everybody.

Once we feel ready for experimentation, i'll be the first:nana:to test shifted boundaries on the device with custom firmware.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i know what you mean.
> 
> 4x(-2A) is supported for NiMH chemistry because of lower voltage, as you know.
> 1x(-2A) is supported for LiIon chemistry and if other slots try to discharge at max load, e.g. 3x(-1.01A) LiIon, then it feels logical that the load is reduced to 4x(-1.00A) LiIon.
> In theory yes 2x(-2.00A) LiIon should be possible and may be offered in future firmware. Shifting the boundaries, e.g. to 2x(-2.00A) LiIon or to lower min. discharge current, -0.01A instead of -0.05A official spec, will be considered and tested, experimented with, in future, rest assured. I've added your idea to the list. But until then it be more important to focus all efforts on debugging the firmware. KISS principle, it was probably easier to implement just 1x(-2A) as exceptional case in the code and move on with the development, nothing but a practical matter. Originally no 2amps discharging was intended for LiIon chemistry to keep things even simpler for everybody.
> 
> Once we feel ready for experimentation, i'll be the first:nana:to test shifted boundaries on the device with custom firmware.


Let me just share this 






In all my logic i should be safe using it this way, but little encouragement from you will make me even more certain .
So should i continue discharging Li-ion 2x2A?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You should monitor SysTemp, does it stay below 85°C ?

If yes, then all is good. 

Congrats to the h*ck :devil:


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> You should monitor SysTemp, does it stay below 85°C ?
> 
> If yes, then all is good.
> 
> Congrats to the h*ck :devil:


It does rise above, and slot 4 goes down to 1.5 after 12 minutes.
Right at this moment im reversing the fan so it blows upwards, so it shouldnt be an issue, but ill see for sure in few minutes


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

you read my guide about reversing the fan, right?


----------



## Meyer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> A new (version 2.8) of the Android app has been released. I'm not near my charger so I can't test it


Still crashes with Android language settings with decimal comma, e.g. German. Unusable for more than 100 countries.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> you read my guide about reversing the fan, right?


Its already done.
Temp after 20 minutes is 74c, i doubt it will ever go over 76-77c.
Big difference the reversing makes. I did cutout the grill for better airflow, and also seems bit quiter without the grill(less turbulence) , but reversing it also might have role in the quitness.

Let me come clean about the "hack" . Its more of a discovery as i didnt modify any software. 
I got the 2a per slot when starting the discharge from the mobile app. My program is 2A discharge for all 4 slots, and slots 1 and 4 populated in the charger. It will posibly work with different slot/program config, but i havent tested it yet.
Its either a slip, or maybe Skyrc does plan to enable this in the next firmware so we can get 2a when working with the charger buttons.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Its already done.
> Temp after 20 minutes is 74c, i doubt it will ever go over 76-77c.
> Big difference the reversing makes. I did cutout the grill for better airflow, and also seems bit quiter without the grill(less turbulence) , but reversing it also might have role in the quitness.
> 
> Let me come clean about the "hack" . Its more of a discovery as i didnt modify any software.
> I got the 2a per slot when starting the discharge from the mobile app. My program is 2A discharge for all 4 slots, and slots 1 and 4 populated in the charger. It will posibly work with different slot/program config, but i havent tested it yet.
> Its either a slip, or maybe Skyrc does plan to enable this in the next firmware so we can get 2a when working with the charger buttons.



You have Androïd? We cannot go higher than 1A with iOS application.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> You have Androïd? We cannot go higher than 1A with iOS application.


Yes, android.
It was up to 1A here too, but the latest app update has that limit to 2A


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> from the mobile app … either a slip, or … in the next firmware


the peeps who work on the mobile app are not the same peeps who work on the firmware, different 'companies' actually.

it's a slip.

take it from me.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Yes, android.
> It was up to 1A here too, but the latest app update has that limit to 2A



If someone set all 4 slots at 2A, I think it will be very dangerous....the appli developpers have to correct this "error" rapidly.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> If someone set all 4 slots at 2A, I think it will be very dangerous....the appli developpers have to correct this "error" rapidly.


The failsafe will probably kick in and lower the current, as it will definately overheat.Or maybe it will just start at 4x1a. cant say about any posible hardware damage.
havent tried and am not planning to.
Maybe kreisl could try it on his test units so we know the severity of the situation.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

it will cost a power supply to the one who will try before the failsafe trigger.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

sorry guys, i just dropped my smartphone and the bluetooth module seems broken. can't test anything re the bluetooth app, sollie

:fail:

i posted 4 *clear *comments today re this topic, this is my 5th. i can test boundaries in future, not now. we have other fish to fry.

( if someone wrecks the charger because of *accidental *exploitation of this slip in the v2.8 android app, then she/he can open a claim with the seller and or Skyrc company. i am moving on. )


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> it will cost a power supply to the one who will try before the failsafe trigger.



How will a discharge damage a power supply?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> How will a discharge damage a power supply?



I was wrong. The power supply can handle 12A in charge so can easily handle 8A in discharge.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> it will cost a power supply to the one who will try before the failsafe trigger.


Today your math is way off .
It wont do anything to the psu. It is a 60w one. Even if one runs 4x2A , that is 33.6w when discharging freshly charged batteries. As the batteries depleet and voltage drops, so will the wattage. Only issue is heat dissipation, and posibly overloading some chip, dunno.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> I was wrong. The power supply can handle 12A in charge so can easily handle 8A in discharge.




How much it will handle in charge is irrelevant, discharge do not load the power supply.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> How much it will handle in charge is irrelevant, discharge do not load the power supply.


Gues my wrong logic replaced the real way it functions .
Its a capacitor inside the charger that does the discharging right?

If the charger does discharge 4x2a through the mobile app, would the only issue be heat as i said, and would one with sufficient cooling be safe using it tgat way or are there other implications?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Its a capacitor inside the charger that does the discharging right?



Resistor or in this case a transistor.



DeJaVu said:


> If the charger does discharge 4x2a through the mobile app, would the only issue be heat as i said, and would one with sufficient cooling be safe using it tgat way or are there other implications?



The issue is heat, mostly on the heatsink where sensors will reduce the current if the charger get hot. There is also some current sense resistors, but because the charger is already rated for 2A discharge I doubt there will be any problem with them.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> How much it will handle in charge is irrelevant, discharge do not load the power supply.



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/408288

Post 6: I thought it took more current during discharge because I already had a similar problem.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/408288
> 
> Post 6: I thought it took more current during discharge because I already had a similar problem.



That problem looks like it is when the charger starts charging after a discharge, the MC3000 will stop with an error message if the power supply is too weak.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just tried with 3 batteries for short time, and it does discharge them all at 2A .
I guess soon it will be time for that double fan mod .

This charger keeps suprising.
Oh , and save the current .apk from playstore in case they update the app and decide to "fix" this.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> That problem looks like it is when the charger starts charging after a discharge, the MC3000 will stop with an error message if the power supply is too weak.



Ok. Thank you for the explanation. This problem never returned with a better power supply.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Just tried with 3 batteries for short time, and it does discharge them all at 2A .
> I guess soon it will be time for that double fan mod .
> 
> This charger keeps suprising.
> Oh , and save the current .apk from playstore in case they update the app and decide to "fix" this.



I wish I had this "error" on iOS to try but at my own risk.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

One more interesting observation...
When you start a 2a discharge through charger buttons and then add another battery to charge, the discharge current drops to 1a. 
Starting a 2a discharge on the charger(or the app) and then starting a charge through the app, doesnt lower the discharge current.
You can test this on ios, it might work.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Today your math is way off .
> It wont do anything to the psu. It is a 60w one. Even if one runs 4x2A , that is 33.6w when discharging freshly charged batteries. As the batteries depleet and voltage drops, so will the wattage. Only issue is heat dissipation, and posibly overloading some chip, dunno.



Yes P=VI

It is 6.45am...it is time to sleep. it's because of you that I go to bed later. [emoji106]


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Meyer said:


> The App uses Bluetooth Low Energy, available in Android since Version 4.3.
> ! Android OS versions prior 4.4 are out of Google-support (safety patches) !
> 
> The App V2.5 is operating here, with bugs.
> 
> *Bug #1:*
> App will crash with Android language settings where decimal mark is decimal comma (","), as in Germany.
> 
> Preconditions:
> 
> MC3000 Hardware Version 1.4, Firmware Version 1.02
> Samsung Galaxy S5, Android 5.0 with german language setting
> MC3000 App V2.5
> 
> Example: Editing a setup voltages will first be displayed with decimal dot, e.g. 4.20 V. After modifying or reentring the voltage will be displayed with decimal comma, e.g. 4,20V or 4,10V. On saving such a setting the app crashes immediately. Maybe during a text-to-number-conversion-routine.
> 
> Temporary workaround: Choose language setting with decimal dot ("."), e.g. English (United Kingdom) or English (United States). This is annoying in other apps (Mail, spreadsheet, ...).



- Bug 1 is still present on version 2.8: this cause the app to be completely useless!
I'm sure that (fortunately) these are not the same guys that work on the firmware, if not the charger would be completely broken and unusable.


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Big difference the reversing makes. I did cutout the grill for better airflow, and also seems bit quiter without the grill(less turbulence) , but reversing it also might have role in the quitness.



Ah, another "remove the grill" convert. My charger runs cool as a cucumber now that the fan is reversed and no grill is impeding the CFM of the fan!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> This charger keeps suprising.
> Oh , and save the current .apk from playstore in case they update the app and decide to "fix" this.



the app will "fix" this very soon.

very.


----------



## morcegolas

My micro Usb cable from Anker has arrived! Now it's just wait for the FW update!


----------



## billcushman

morcegolas said:


> My micro Usb cable from Anker has arrived! Now it's just wait for the FW update!



Be sure to download and use PCLS to become familiar with it before you plan to do a FW update. You can download the PCLS.exe file directly on the ProgressiveRC site. Be sure to plug in your PC and disable sleep so it doesn't stop PCLS from recording. Some tests will take many hours. If your PC cuts off the bottom of the screen, everything you need still works and when you save the file everything will be there.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Oh , and save the current .apk from playstore in case they update the app and decide to "fix" this.



I would also expect the charger's FW will be updated so this isn't possible.

"Safety checks" shouldn't be a function of an app, they should be a function of the firmware controlling the charger.

The fact this isn't the case (i.e. an app can make it discharge 4 x 2A) is somewhat alarming.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I would also expect the charger's FW will be updated so this isn't possible.
> 
> "Safety checks" shouldn't be a function of an app, they should be a function of the firmware controlling the charger.
> 
> The fact this isn't the case (i.e. an app can make it discharge 4 x 2A) is somewhat alarming.



Good point, that saving an old app possibly won't work with new FW.

On the ability to go 4x2A being alarming, I thought this thread as I read it means it's not alarming. That is, when discharge A is too high and temp increases, the FW will cut the discharge current? All that discussion on fan mods and then people saying it's not practical anyway as you don't do it at 4x1A often anyway, and the FW will cut current?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



chemEJoe said:


> Good point, that saving an old app possibly won't work with new FW.
> 
> On the ability to go 4x2A being alarming, I thought this thread as I read it means it's not alarming. That is, when discharge A is too high and temp increases, the FW will cut the discharge current? All that discussion on fan mods and then people saying it's not practical anyway as you don't do it at 4x1A often anyway, and the FW will cut current?


And what if there's a programming error in the next version of the app and it tries to discharge at 20A and then the magic smoke comes out? Or sets the charge termination current at 42.0 volts?

You missed my point. Charger/Battery safety should NOT be a function of the app.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

very very nice premium cable there morcegolas
i am jealous now


----------



## bosko90

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



> Be sure to download and use PCLS to become familiar with it before you plan to do a FW update. You can download the PCLS.exe file directly on the ProgressiveRC site. Be sure to plug in your PC and disable sleep so it doesn't stop PCLS from recording. Some tests will take many hours. If your PC cuts off the bottom of the screen, everything you need still works and when you save the file everything will be there.


Where did you find PCLS.exe? I download on that site (ProgresiveRC) and it is MC3000_Monitor.exe


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



bosko90 said:


> Where did you find PCLS.exe? I download on that site (ProgresiveRC) and it is MC3000_Monitor.exe



That is the software....


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes P=VI
> 
> It is 6.45am...it is time to sleep. it's because of you that I go to bed later. [emoji106]


Thirst for knowledge is what kept you awake 


dssguy1 said:


> Ah, another "remove the grill" convert. My charger runs cool as a cucumber now that the fan is reversed and no grill is impeding the CFM of the fan!


Yep, better that way imo. I also grinded the hole bit wider than the fan blades, and there was no need for grommet and modifying the clip so the fan fits without catching on the plastic.


kreisl said:


> the app will "fix" this very soon.
> 
> very.


You told them didnt ya, you traitor .

Joking aside, understandable that 4x2A wouldnt work great because of heat issues(even on fan up config) and would need custom cooling. But 2x2A would be no trouble for any unit with the fan in correct position.
2A discharge was one of the selling points for me, as it allows to more precisely get the runtime we would get from higher draw devices. 
I know there are lot of flashlights that are 2A draw. 
Now that cat is out of the bag, it will be very unfortunate to lose that functionality in a later app/firmware revision.
Maybe you could push on the development team to allow 2x2A in the new firmware?

Also is there a reason behind discharge current going down from 2A to 1A if you insert battery in one of the other slots for charging?
If there would be no harm, then SkyRC should also remove that limitation.


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> I know it is written total time in the manual but there is something wrong between my 2 statements before.
> 
> If it took 4,5heure for a charge, I should have the cut time error if I set it to 360min for a C>D>C
> (2x4.5=9.0hours...540min? But never had it.


I have tested CUT TIME parameter with 4 different programs (CHARGE+C.RESTING; REFRESH; CYCLE C>D>C N=1), [01] in #1, [02] in #2, [03] in #3, and [04] in #4, on Eneloop and including 5min RESTING pauses between the charge/discharge routines. I set the CUT TIME parameter to 60min or 120min, such that the slot would be cut before finishing the program. Everything worked as expected!, when TOTAL TIME reached 60min or 120min, the slot threw the message "Timer Cut". At that point the cycling slots were in the 2nd charge routine, like in your test. I also did similar tests on 10440 LiIon's and again TOTAL TIME cut as expected by me. I couldn't reproduce the bug, sorry, your observation remains UNCONFIRMED. - Or maybe it is not a bug related to CUT TIME itself but originating from the SAVE/SAVE TO feature. There was a recent bug fix regarding the latter, see (k#37).



DeJaVu said:


> Now that cat is out of the bag, it will be very unfortunate to lose that functionality in a later app/firmware revision.
> Maybe you could push on the development team to allow 2x2A in the new firmware?


Sorry, that bug is already fixed in the v1.04*d* _firmware _which i've just installed, see (k#39):nana:
Result: When you try to run -2A LiIon in all 4 slots from the android app, the device would only run with 4x-1A, which is correct. Removing 3 LiIon's and restarting the program from the app, the device does a 1x-2A discharge, also correct.

As mentioned earlier, we'll revisit the topic 'Exploration of Max./Min. Spec Boundaries', in future. :tinfoil:


----------



## romteb

I did the fan mod, removed the grill completely, not need to play with shims, added benefit is that the fan is now as silent as it probably can be (used to be very noisy) and the air flow should be better.

I might screw/glue a small metalic grill to protect the fan in the future, for now the charger is completely sedentary and the protection useless.


----------



## bosko90

On youtube i saw, that could be charger use as power bank. That guy just press enter and down simultaneously, charger turns on and charge phone. I try these with my and nothing is happening. Is these option disabled in new FW?


----------



## MarioJP

bosko90 said:


> On youtube i saw, that could be charger use as power bank. That guy just press enter and down simultaneously, charger turns on and charge phone. I try these with my and nothing is happening. Is these option disabled in new FW?


More like that circuitry has been completely removed. It was impractical for its size and adds to the cost.


----------



## bosko90

OK, I agree, is not really portable. but for camping, where you have a car (I know.. car charger) and lot of 18650 batteries, it is useful. Now the USB port is unusable. At home i have wall charger and I don't need 0,9kg plastic and electronic for that. But it's ok charger is not designed for this stuff  

Ps: the rail in 4 slot is moving back and front :/.. it is possible to fix it?

Video link: [video]https://vid.me/EnYT[/video]


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> I have tested CUT TIME parameter with 4 different programs (CHARGE+C.RESTING; REFRESH; CYCLE C>D>C N=1), [01] in #1, [02] in #2, [03] in #3, and [04] in #4, on Eneloop and including 5min RESTING pauses between the charge/discharge routines. I set the CUT TIME parameter to 60min or 120min, such that the slot would be cut before finishing the program. Everything worked as expected!, when TOTAL TIME reached 60min or 120min, the slot threw the message "Timer Cut". At that point the cycling slots were in the 2nd charge routine, like in your test. I also did similar tests on 10440 LiIon's and again TOTAL TIME cut as expected by me. I couldn't reproduce the bug, sorry, your observation remains UNCONFIRMED. - Or maybe it is not a bug related to CUT TIME itself but originating from the SAVE/SAVE TO feature. There was a recent bug fix regarding the latter, see (k#37).


 
It seems to work ok for now. I don't understand the K#37 however. 

1- I did many C>D>C when I received the charger. The time cut was set at 360min (saved). Never had the cut time error even if it took longer for the total process. That's why I thought the cut time was the time to charge or discharge or charge and not for the total time of the process.

2- Last time, I have changed it to 480min (saved), because of a lower charge and it worked as expected. That's why I asked if the time cut was for the full process as written in the manual. 

It looks like since I changed the value and saved, it works even if I have the same parameters at the beginning when it was not working. I will keep an eye on it. (Is it what you mean in k#37?)

Today, I tried again and worked has expected.


----------



## Devon

Not sure if this has been mentioned but an interesting condition occurred for me the other day.

I had a circuit breaker trip on the circuit the mc3000 was plugged into. I was logging via PC via USB and charging 4 batteries.

When the power failed the charger started drawing power from the USB and gave the low voltage warning. It didn't revert back to the power brick when power was restored, I had to reset it by unplugging the power and the USB.

Unusual I thought.


----------



## kreisl

can of worms lol


----------



## kreisl

Devon said:


> It didn't revert back to the power brick when power was restored, I had to reset it by unplugging the power and the USB.


We get the message "WARNING Input Volt Too Low" (USB connected, mains unplugged). That's correct message because mc3k detects USB voltage and zero input voltage from the mains adapter.
When mains is re-plugged, the message "WARNING Input Volt Too Low" continues to remain on the LCD. That's true.
Then just click/press/depress the SETUP-button (STOP-button), and TOV returns on the LCD.

Unplugging of power and or USB is _not _needed. Just press a few buttons on the charger (like the SETUP-button) and you'll see your TOV. :thumbsup:


----------



## tripplec

IMO This charger is too complex for the average or even above average JOE wanting to just charge his cell (LiIon & NiMH). Selecting a charge rate, yes I want to do that and have up to 1A for cells that will take it. But it should terminate on its own at the right cutoff voltage. Trickle charging afterwards, Nope I wouldn't want that kind of charger.

Just saying...


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> Today, I tried again and worked has expected.


:huh:

(k#37) is the following bug, you guys wanna try? :twothumbs
- goto SPV in #1 and edit [01], for example charge with 0.11A, and SAVE.
- goto SPV in #1 again and edit [01] again, for example charge with 0.22A, and SAVE TO [02].
- goto SPV in #1 again and edit [01] again, for example charge with 0.33A, and SAVE TO [03].
- goto SPV in #1 again and edit [01] again, for example charge with 0.44A, and SAVE TO [04].
- goto SPV in #2 and set the top row to [02] (with the UP/DOWN buttons).
- click on SNB#3 to goto SPV in #3 and set the top row to [03] (with the UP/DOWN buttons).
- click on SNB#4 to goto SPV in #4 and set the top row to [04] (with the UP/DOWN buttons). And SAVE.
- click on ENTER to START ALL

question: What should happen now?


( what you're seeing is a bug, it has been fixed in (k#37). )


----------



## HKJ

tripplec said:


> IMO This charger is too complex for the average or even above average JOE wanting to just charge his cell (LiIon & NiMH). Selecting a charge rate, yes I want to do that and have up to 1A for cells that will take it. But it should terminate on its own at the right cutoff voltage. Trickle charging afterwards, Nope I wouldn't want that kind of charger.
> 
> Just saying...



As I said in my review: "but it is not for everyone"
To use the charger you must know something about batteries or use the time to learn it, it is not a charger where you can just put empty batteries in and take full batteries out.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> :huh:
> 
> (k#37) is the following bug, you guys wanna try? :twothumbs
> - goto SPV in #1 and edit [01], for example charge with 0.11A, and SAVE.
> - goto SPV in #1 again and edit [01] again, for example charge with 0.22A, and SAVE TO [02].
> - goto SPV in #1 again and edit [01] again, for example charge with 0.33A, and SAVE TO [03].
> - goto SPV in #1 again and edit [01] again, for example charge with 0.44A, and SAVE TO [04].
> - goto SPV in #2 and set the top row to [02] (with the UP/DOWN buttons).
> - click on SNB#3 to goto SPV in #3 and set the top row to [03] (with the UP/DOWN buttons).
> - click on SNB#4 to goto SPV in #4 and set the top row to [04] (with the UP/DOWN buttons). And SAVE.
> - click on ENTER to START ALL
> 
> question: What should happen now?
> 
> 
> ( what you're seeing is a bug, it has been fixed in (k#37). )



So I will have to reedit all my programs because it's mostly this way I have created mine? If yes, I will wait FW 1.04 in case all of them will be erased when updating. My 3000 is full...


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> question: What should happen now?
> 
> 
> ( what you're seeing is a bug, it has been fixed in (k#37). )


what you're seeing in 1.03 and 1.02:
#1 charges with 0.44A
#2 charges with 0.22A
#3 charges with 0.33A
#4 charges with 0.44A
apparently #1 is wrong, because of bug.

Yes all your programs will be erased when you update to 1.04.
PCLS 1.01 cannot dump program data and calibration data to file.

There is a lot which PCLS 1.01 cannot do. 
I expect more functionality from PCLS 2.97.


----------



## Devon

kreisl said:


> We get the message "WARNING Input Volt Too Low" (USB connected, mains unplugged). That's correct message because mc3k detects USB voltage and zero input voltage from the mains adapter.
> When mains is re-plugged, the message "WARNING Input Volt Too Low" continues to remain on the LCD. That's true.
> Then just click/press/depress the SETUP-button (STOP-button), and TOV returns on the LCD.
> 
> Unplugging of power and or USB is _not _needed. Just press a few buttons on the charger (like the SETUP-button) and you'll see your TOV. :thumbsup:



Thanks Squirrel. 

I'm finding that saving programs to the bluetooth app is the best option, running from there, then disabling bluetooth and hitting start on the PC monitor software for logging is working well for me.

A bit of stuffing around but the programs are saved with a description, I won't lose them with a firmware upgrade, and the parameters offer the best options, much better than Monitor 1.01.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thank you kreisl for the explanation for the k#37. Not evident for me to understand it and that's why I called it "weird" when it happened for the first time to me with the time cut.

I will wait FW 1.04 instead of reediting all of them. It'll be good to start them all again.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Devon said:


> Thanks Squirrel.
> 
> I'm finding that saving programs to the bluetooth app is the best option, running from there, then disabling bluetooth and hitting start on the PC monitor software for logging is working well for me.
> 
> A bit of stuffing around but the programs are saved with a description, I won't lose them with a firmware upgrade, and the parameters offer the best options, much better than Monitor 1.01.



Yes but we don't have all the parameters in the application (iOS).


----------



## bosko90

kreisl said:


> Thanks for the video!!
> Yes i can see that the RAIL is loose in your slot#4. Nothing is broken or damaged inside, i am sure.
> 
> I opened my mc3k's repeatedly. The construction is very straight-forward, and the assembly, disassembly, and re-assembly is easy to understand and very instructional. You can learn from it, the assembly. For example did i learn that my SLIDERS had some sharp edges, so i rounded them off with a file. Also, there is only 1 reason for a scratching sound (your slot#2!): it is the end tip point of the spring scratching upon the RAIL. This tip point should be sliding in the middle slot of the RAIL, on "air", not on the RAIL metal surface.
> 
> Don't be shy. I would carefully open the charger and look at the assembly (see also HKJ's review for inside photos!). Yes, take out the main PCB. Look at the RAILS. Clean them with a cloth, remove the grease. Look at the SLIDERS, clean them with a cloth, remove the grease. Check if you can feel sharp edges on the SLIDERS. Learn how the spring is connected to the SLIDER and that it should ride in the slot of the RAIL. Easy peesy. And while you're at it, you could also evaluate the installation of the fan and take some photos.
> 
> Not too easy the re-assembly where some patience is needed (and that's i guess where the factory worker was too hasty?). The 4 slot temperature sensors must go back into their plastic pockets; check if there is enough thermal paste in the pockets. Etc. The cables and wires can't get in the way, when you shut the 2 case halves closed; got an AAA flashlight handy?
> 
> Once you have managed to reassemble the charger, it will be in better condition than before, because you didn't do the assembly hastily.
> 
> So the answer is: Yes, it can be fixed. ( And i'd urge you to do it on your own, you'll learn a lot about the charger construction and which edges to round off, etc. )
> 
> If you don't feel like it, you could ask your dealer for a suggestion. Sure, that video would suffice to make a legitimate claim for an exchange replacement unit, or for a partial refund for your efforts of diy fixing.




Thank you for the answer. I will try to fix it. with a little bit scare because it is not cheap charger. do not get me wrong I'm not fresh in this because I have a lot of things OPEN n reassembled but is generally less expensive and older stuff.

Now the charger is busy, I'll see later what to do. 

It is better to leave the rails without grease for better connection? for example now the internal resistance of barrery is always different on same battery, and number is varry between 80 - 400 on new panasonic NCR18650B. It's way too much.

I wrote to the supplier and he said: Sorry for that. and if is that acceptable to me.


----------



## kreisl

bosko90 said:


> It is better to leave the rails without grease for better connection?


Bosko, once you have rounded off the sharp edges of your SLIDERS (you'll need a small metal file for this task), the RAILS & SLIDERS won't need grease anymore. Remove the grease completely. That's what i did. Clean with alcohol.
Grease has resistance and it falsifies your Batt IR measurement.

Don't be scared. Opening is easy, see for example #2323. And how the device construction/assembly is straight-forward, as mentioned before. Feel free to take photos on your steps and share. For fixing the RAIL in slot#4, you don't need to take out the PCB completely, you'll see. But .. once you've opened the charger, it makes sense to take out the PCB and check the assembly (thermal grease on the 6 temperature sensors, cleaning the RAILS and SLIDERS, etc etc as described before).

When i got my new charger in December (or was it November?), in fact, disassembly was the first thing which i did. Checking assembly, modding the SLIDERS, cleaning whatever could be cleaned, looking at the fan installation, etc.

Good luck man!! I'm with you.


----------



## mrQQ

Couple of wishes:

1) Results screen should show mWh instead of Wh, so that we have better accuracy
2) Monitor software should save data to file all the time, instead of just at the end


----------



## kreisl

mrQQ said:


> Couple of wishes:
> 
> 1) Results screen should show mWh instead of Wh, so that we have better accuracy
> 2) Monitor software should save data to file all the time, instead of just at the end


Good ones! I'll look into these, ask about both.

Listed.

Tanks.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> Remove the grease completely. That's what i did. Clean with alcohol.
> Grease has resistance and it falsifies your Batt IR measurement.



v interesting to read: is this for the surfaces where it makes contact with the battery? I would think the IR measurement error would be small if the rails are in the charging circuit and the grease is not between contacts, but on the surface of any conducting rails. Can you explain what you mean, and maybe every user would like to do this. I would if it matters say over 10% error. Thanks in advance.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> And what if there's a programming error in the next version of the app and it tries to discharge at 20A and then the magic smoke comes out? Or sets the charge termination current at 42.0 volts?
> 
> You missed my point. Charger/Battery safety should NOT be a function of the app.



tjh: I don't know ... yes, the sw system design needs to have corner cases closed that let the unit go out of spec. What I was saying is just it seems from other's comments that it's ok given the unit will reduce discharge current if it gets above certain temperatures. That was the discussion on the practicality of doing the fan mod, which most users don't need. For me it's just trying to clarify as I'd want to make my own choices for mods.

On safety as a function of the app, I would include FW with the app, as both add up to a sw and control designed into the hardware, and even then, to electronics designers, there are probably hardware fail-safes. So, the hint to that is what HKJ said in his posts on this topic, the 4x2A. So that's why I was taking the language down a bit, that I don't think this is 'alarming'. And I don't mean to disrespect your post ... just trying to keep it based on how I'm reading the many posts here and understanding more so I can make my own choices. This charger is amazing, and the more we learn, the safer we can run Li Ions in a household of kids and non-tech spouses.


----------



## kreisl

chemEJoe said:


> v interesting to read:









I can't tell how much it matters because i cleaned the inside of my charger from day 1 haha.

There was conductive(?) grease on the RAILS for better SLIDER movement. I removed that grease. Turns out, the grease is not needed imo. Dry SLIDER and dry RAIL form a perfectly smooth sliding system on my unit. My unit was an early production unit and the SLIDERS had some sharp edges. I don't know if the SLIDER edges got refined in later productions, you guys could open the charger up and take close-up photos, i am interested myself to see what you guys got under da new hood! Btw you could try to clean the RAIL with a Q-tip from outside, i.e. without opening the charger, and see how much gunk the Q-tip catches. In a dusty environment the grease would catch the dust, no?

I get nice reproducible Batt IR measurements. And i love the new TOV function <UP+DOWN> in 1.04 fw.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> ... i am interested myself to see what you guys got under da new hood!



I will try to do that as I am one of those who likes to see what is under the hood. I think I have orig HW, because I have the fan blowing downward away from the unit. 

I am not an EE but I do know how to solder well and I have a very experienced analog ee friend, so I'm hoping to get him involved in this very cool and emerging world for all of us - the use of consumer batteries that are much better performance than old tech, but have its dangers. He would be able to read this forum and explain all the tech nuances to me.

On the grease, if it's surface, it's just going to get dirt and if you see no need, it's worth cleaning out else one has to clean it out sooner or later. I doubt if it will interfere with IR unless it's in the path of the circuit, and that would rub off with use anyway (at least for the battery to rails part).

I love the advice on softening the edges so it doesn't cut us when we want to go into maintenance mode. One trick of the trade to reduce filings and do a better job: just take a knife edge and drag it along the sharp edge of the rail. It will smooth that out without creating a lot of filings and it is much faster. Maybe one or 3 strokes, just put you knife edge on the edge to be smoothed, put your thumb safely over the blade (not on the edges), and drag it. Using a dulled knife is fine, just a harder metal than the rails. This is just like how one would curl ribbons when wrapping a present. I've done this a lot to smooth out sharp edges and it saves time and cleanup. And the better job comes from truly dulling/reforming the sharp edge rather than creating many serrated edges that are dependent on the fineness of the file you use.

Thanks btw for all your energies ... I don't know how you get compensated, so I'll just give my respect and appreciation FWIW. I also like how you address all kinds of complaints and still set limits ("moving on"). It's good you do that so you can be strong as the interface to the manuf, sort of.

Finally, I know you have been asked this in a different way, but would you consider a thread to host battery charging recipes and discussion? I know you said before this is easier on one thread, but that topic will go v deeply into the applications of the charger, and this one can continue to help the community know and improve the charger. Since you are the feedback to Manuf guy, I'd say you would be great to host that thread too.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Noisy fan?

when it's a few hours it did not work, it made that noise at startup for about 20-25 seconds. First batch Stock charger without mod. 

I think I'm better to order a new fan before playing with it. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ka3l6c3agttxucf/Vidéo 16-02-27 20 48 16.mov?dl=0


----------



## bosko90

I open my charger.. and these is what i found.





The fan is glued into his place, because hooks are to short.






slot thermal element have almost nothing thermal paste and system thermal element have a lot of thermal paste but they are 2-3mm offset from heatsink. It will be better if they were touched heatsink


----------



## bosko90

The conclusion is this:

-I won't open charger again, if it is not really necessary. reassambly is a bit hard :/
-I fixed the 4. slot rail   
-I was added thermal paste on all slot thermal elements
-I remove the grease and polish the sharp edges, but it not help for better measurement internal resistance :/ at least not for me, or i do something wrong.

very old useless AA (each slot same battery):

#1 #2 #3 #4
Before IR: 1132; 1121; 1119; 1102
After IR: 1153; 1050; 1051; 1020

3 times charged Panasonic NCR18650B (each slot same battery):

#1 #2 #3 #4
Before IR: 100; 104; 99; 96
After IR: 102; 96; 97; 94


----------



## kreisl

thanks for the photos, very helpful to see the little improvements they made :devil:

here a photo of my SLIDERS with rounded off edges, well done kreisl!!








so in your GSV it says "HW Version: 1.4", but your actual PCB says "1.5"?

Maybe my PCB is 1.5 then too? ��


----------



## mrQQ

where can we get 1.04 and what is change log?


----------



## kreisl

the changelog is the k-items in the list , http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list

1.04 is still being developed. I am thinking of adding another item in SPV to control the NiMH Trickle Charge. I have the whole Sunday to think about it, ha.


----------



## mrQQ

> [h=1]Error: Unable to find site's URL to redirect to.


[/h]


----------



## mrQQ

There is an issue with time display in Monitor app - it's been discharging for 20+ hours now, but time shown is 02:19:50.

Also, would be nice to be able to show all graphs in the same chart.


----------



## bosko90

kreisl said:


> thanks for the photos, very helpful to see the little improvements they made :devil:
> 
> erh, after the reassembly i checked calibration and fine tuned it.
> maybe after checking calibration on your unit, you'll get more consistent batt ir measurements across the four slots.
> 
> so in your GSV it says "HW Version: 1.4", but your actual PCB says "1.5"?
> 
> Maybe my PCB is 1.5 then too? &#55357;&#56856;
> 
> And was there still a squirrel pic on the PCB? &#55357;&#56834;




Oh i forgot to take a photo of whole PCB :S 
yes, it's still a squirrel pic on the PCB.. 
I have cheap ($ 7) multimeter so I can not perform Calibration  I know 2 people Which have pro multimeter. I hope to meet with them soon.


----------



## bosko90

kreisl said:


> thanks for the photos, very helpful to see the little improvements they made :devil:
> 
> erh, after the reassembly i checked calibration and fine tuned it.
> maybe after checking calibration on your unit, you'll get more consistent batt ir measurements across the four slots.
> 
> so in your GSV it says "HW Version: 1.4", but your actual PCB says "1.5"?
> 
> Maybe my PCB is 1.5 then too? 😘
> 
> And was there still a squirrel pic on the PCB? 😂




Oh i forgot to take a photo of whole PCB :S 
yes, it's still a squirrel pic on the PCB.. 
I have cheap ($ 7) multimeter so I can not perform Calibration  I know 2 people Which have pro multimeter. I hope to meet with them soon.


----------



## kreisl

mrQQ said:


> Also, would be nice to be able to show all graphs in the same chart.



Are you talking about PCLS? In PCLS i don't see any problem with time display. UNCONFIRMED 

All graphs in the same chart is possible with DEX.

(…)

Still the squirrel pic on the PCB? Aha. 

Then your product must be genuine. Counterfeit chargers don't have it


----------



## Devon

Just put a set of 4 UR18650W2 I've had sitting in a blown up battery pack from 5 years ago into this charger

Voltage read under 1.3v on all 4 batteries, 2 of the batteries were below 1v...Had to use the NiMH charge program to get them up to an acceptable voltage to charge as LiIon.

3 full cycles and they are reporting 1000mAh plus...these are 15amp current capable batteries. 0.2C to 2.8v

Nice

Edit: corrected spell checked numbers


----------



## chemEJoe

Devon said:


> Just put a set of 4 UR18650W2 I've had sitting in a blown up battery pack from 5 years ago into this charger
> 
> Voltage read under 1.3v on all 4 batteries, 2 of the batteries were below 1v...Had to use the NiMH charge program to get them up to an acceptable voltage to charge as LiIon.
> 
> 3 full cycles and they are reporting 1000mAh plus...these are 15amp current capable batteries. 0.2C to 2.8v
> 
> Nice
> 
> Edit: corrected spell checked numbers



I thought I read if Li Ion's got less than 2.5v for a period of time, they need to be charged with great care. Are you saying of in using this charger, you can bring them back to life and measure what you are seeing as safe parameters, these batteries are safe to use?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?250934-li-ion-discharge-limit-2-5v-2-7v-2-8v-3v


----------



## tjh

I just had another read of the changelog.

What
The
Flip


(k#38) add in GSV some hidden generic LCD games for 1 player (CONFIRMED, DONE)


----------



## kreisl

bosko90 said:


> I try these with my and nothing is happening.








scnr


----------



## Devon

chemEJoe said:


> I thought I read if Li Ion's got less than 2.5v for a period of time, they need to be charged with great care. Are you saying of in using this charger, you can bring them back to life and measure what you are seeing as safe parameters, these batteries are safe to use?
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?250934-li-ion-discharge-limit-2-5v-2-7v-2-8v-3v



I've charged and discharged a few times using between 0.03C and 0.66C and so far so good. Temps never above 40C on the battery and discharged to 2.8v with capacity showing over 1Ah.

More testing required at higher C but so far so good.

The initial charge I did was very very slow, around 0.05A.

After a full charge terminating at 0.05A and resting for over 12hrs I'm getting a resting voltage of 4.14v on all 4.


----------



## chemEJoe

Devon said:


> I've charged and discharged a few times using between 0.03C and 0.66C and so far so good. Temps never above 40C on the battery and discharged to 2.8v with capacity showing over 1Ah.
> 
> More testing required at higher C but so far so good.
> 
> The initial charge I did was very very slow, around 0.05A.
> 
> After a full charge terminating at 0.05A and resting for over 12hrs I'm getting a resting voltage of 4.14v on all 4.



Thanks for the details - it does seem that you've been v careful. So far so good I guess. Please keep us posted if you want. Seems like a v good thing if you can recover from that and use this charger to manage the risk.

Me, I'd probably just recycle not knowing any better as I've bought into the scare of dendrites, etc. I would love more experienced guidance. I have some cheap batteries that came bundled with a cheap light. I am just going to recycle those after I test/analyze them because I have no idea of their histories. I should be getting some nice Panasonic NCR18650Bs this week, so I'll have plenty of good batteries to use.


----------



## Devon

The batteries are working fine but their usable capacity is about half what it was when new.

I'm going to bin them, although they would be good for low current devices if you don't mind they have about 1/5 to 1/4 the usable capacity of a new low current battery.

The D cell NiMH Powerizers are giving me over 8Ah after being on the shelf for more than 9 years unused, which is great.


----------



## mrQQ

The beep setting does not stick. After power off, it's back to 1.


----------



## tjh

mrQQ said:


> The beep setting does not stick. After power off, it's back to 1.


Hold down enter in the settings to SAVE the settings.

It comes with a manual. You should read it.


----------



## DeJaVu

mrQQ said:


> The beep setting does not stick. After power off, it's back to 1.


After making changes you need to press and hold enter(4th button) for few seconds so the changes stick.


----------



## teacher

I couldn't stand it any longer, I just ordered one from 'Progressive RC'.... :thumbsup:
I can't wait to get my hands on this baby.........


----------



## C & R

I have had mine for a few days and am having a lot of fun getting up to speed with it. It is so easy to sort out the marginal cells with it.


----------



## kreisl

mrQQ said:


> The beep setting does not stick. After power off, it's back to 1.


I saved "Beep Tone: 10" with long-pressing ENTER button. 
I powered off, waited 20sec, powered back on.
Beep Tone was still "10".


----------



## C & R

Kreisl,


I have an I don’t understand /feature request / bug for the MC3000 Monitor V1.01. 

It appears that the values for the different battery chemistries are not kept separate. 


Example: If I select slot 1, and set it for LiIon with the correct parameters, and then switch to NiMH the same now incorrect parameters are showing there.


From my thinking each different battery chemistry would be stored separately, perhaps in a configuration file so that when the program is restarted they would not have to be reentered. 


A better approach if possible, that has already been suggested, is to be able to upload / download the 30 programs to the charger.


Even as is the software makes the charger easier for me to use at this point in the learning curve.


----------



## jpasint

Got mine on order and it should be here tomorrow.


----------



## mrQQ

kreisl said:


> I saved "Beep Tone: 10" with long-pressing ENTER button.
> I powered off, waited 20sec, powered back on.
> Beep Tone was still "10".



Seems to work now.

Time display is still incorrect though:







And one more strange issue:

I did a NiMH discharge at 100mA which took 6 hours 31 minutes and 6 seconds to 0.9v, after which it terminated. Exported CSV file, and it correctly contained 23466 lines of data (6 * 3600 + 31 * 60 + 6), each every second. So, if it was discharging for 23466 seconds @ 100mA, then the expected reported capacity should be 23466 / 3600 (hours) * 100mA = 651mAh. Instead, the device reported it at 677mAh. This might not seem like a lot, but with higher capacity batteries the difference grows larger. So which of those numbers is correct?


----------



## kreisl

Hi, i don't have any such discrepancies, neither with PCLS time axis, nor with PCLS log and mAh-check calculations, not even with 14 or 41 hours. I win.

I don't know why things are different on your system. You could share the log file and i'll have a look at it. Original *.CSV, RAR-compressed or so.


----------



## chemEJoe

I just got my NCR18650B protecteds after 5 weeks in transit from GB. Next time it will be US supplier.

To get started, should I run C>D>C to learn of initial starting capacities? I plan to build 2 4-cell battery packs for my bike lights. Can't wait.

So far until this main application, I've sorted through about 30 NiMH with mixed understanding but I was able to recycle 3 duds. Nice to be on an analyzing charger with so much capabilities, thanks you SkyRC and Kreisl, this community.


----------



## retrocon

Question related to overdischarging. I overshot the li-fe minimum discharge, and so the MC3000 says "check voltage." I did, it was 1.6, 1.7. I realize that i may have damaged it, and i realize that i should use care if i choose to charge it. I also understand that li-fe is somewhat safer than 3.7 volt li-ion. 

Still, if i want to recharge it, how do i override the objections of the charger? I noticed that Devon boosted his voltage by putting it on a NiMh charge for awhile. Seems with an advanced charger, i shouldn't have to "fool" it. It's a small CR2 lifepo4 cell.

So far, i love the charger, had it since December, but this seems like a case where they dumb it down too much, unless i am missing something. I can't find anything in this thread, HKJs review thread, or the manual, on overriding this error. Did i miss something?

also, why can't i set up a charging solution without regard to chemistry, assuming i accept the risk? Then, at least, i could do a slow build charge between my choice of upper and lower limits, with cutoff parameters to experiment with these cells.

anyway, again, love the charger otherwise, i suspect that i am just missing something somewhere. 

Thanks for any insight.


----------



## billcushman

retrocon said:


> Question related to overdischarging. I overshot the li-fe minimum discharge, and so the MC3000 says "check voltage." I did, it was 1.6, 1.7. I realize that i may have damaged it, and i realize that i should use care if i choose to charge it.



How did you over-discharge? The MC3000 should have limited your discharge to 2.00 volt (2.40 volt default) according to the manual.


----------



## bosko90

retrocon said:


> Question related to overdischarging. I overshot the li-fe minimum discharge, and so the MC3000 says "check voltage." I did, it was 1.6, 1.7. I realize that i may have damaged it, and i realize that i should use care if i choose to charge it. I also understand that li-fe is somewhat safer than 3.7 volt li-ion.
> 
> Still, if i want to recharge it, how do i override the objections of the charger? I noticed that Devon boosted his voltage by putting it on a NiMh charge for awhile. Seems with an advanced charger, i shouldn't have to "fool" it. It's a small CR2 lifepo4 cell.




it's for safety reason. they do not want to be responsible for any accidents. I do not know if you can do anything. I definitely wouldn't.


----------



## tjh

retrocon said:


> Question related to overdischarging. I overshot the li-fe minimum discharge, and so the MC3000 says "check voltage." I did, it was 1.6, 1.7. I realize that i may have damaged it, and i realize that i should use care if i choose to charge it. I also understand that li-fe is somewhat safer than 3.7 volt li-ion.
> 
> Still, if i want to recharge it, how do i override the objections of the charger? I noticed that Devon boosted his voltage by putting it on a NiMh charge for awhile. Seems with an advanced charger, i shouldn't have to "fool" it. It's a small CR2 lifepo4 cell.
> 
> So far, i love the charger, had it since December, but this seems like a case where they dumb it down too much, unless i am missing something. I can't find anything in this thread, HKJs review thread, or the manual, on overriding this error. Did i miss something?
> 
> also, why can't i set up a charging solution without regard to chemistry, assuming i accept the risk? Then, at least, i could do a slow build charge between my choice of upper and lower limits, with cutoff parameters to experiment with these cells.
> 
> anyway, again, love the charger otherwise, i suspect that i am just missing something somewhere.
> 
> Thanks for any insight.



They do this, not to stop people like you who know what you're doing, but rather people like me who are muppets and might put in a AA and then try to LION charge it.
Once it's discharged down to that level, the cell should be considered unsafe and it's up to you to "hack at it" to get it back to a voltage the charger will consider non-insane 

Maybe a feature request for kriesl though, a "*Yes I know I'm insane. Let me hold down the 'up' arrow while I press enter to override the "check voltage" check*" option.


----------



## mrQQ

kreisl said:


> Hi, i don't have any such discrepancies, neither with PCLS time axis, nor with PCLS log and mAh-check calculations, not even with 14 or 41 hours. I win.
> 
> I don't know why things are different on your system. You could share the log file and i'll have a look at it. Original *.CSV, RAR-compressed or so.



Very strange indeed. See this file: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...3324&authkey=!AN854k6fvNC6q04&ithint=file,zip

You'll see that math does not add up.


----------



## dssguy1

Can't you just use another Li-Fe 3v battery (or two AA's in series) to charge it via wires for a minute or two? Just enough to get it above the "I think you are a NiMH battery" voltage level of the MC3000?

I have done that a bunch of times to jump start a battery that my chargers thought was dead when they had actually just discharged too much. These were NiMH and NiCd batteries but I think the theory is legit as long as you don't go crazy.


----------



## retrocon

billcushman said:


> How did you over-discharge? The MC3000 should have limited your discharge to 2.00 volt (2.40 volt default) according to the manual.



I over discharged in my flashlight... Not the charger 

sometimes i do use the batteries for that which they are intended, though playing with the discharge cycle on the charger is fun, too.


----------



## retrocon

I was thinking about trying that, but was hoping the charger would have an override or mode to do it without gerryrigging something. It seems lime it would be a common problem with all the vape and flashlight mods around.


----------



## kreisl

mrQQ said:


> Very strange indeed. See this file: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...3324&authkey=!AN854k6fvNC6q04&ithint=file,zip
> 
> You'll see that math does not add up.


Log shows 1.616V.
Which battery is that? Exact model/make, all details please. I will try to test run the same battery on my system in order to see if my log differs from yours.

Even better, try to test standard Eneloop and NCR18650's and see if you get again a math mismatch. These are the batteries which i have at hand.


----------



## kappa7

@retrocon
If you keep pressed the slot button the protection reset feature will pulse endlessly some current. You should see the battery voltage slowly rise, keep it pressed until the voltage is enough to be recognised as lithium battery.


----------



## retrocon

I will try that and get back with the results, thanks!


----------



## retrocon

Ok, this was interesting... I left the battery in the charger, but did not start it, while i was researching this situation. The voltage read about 1.6v. charger was, and continued to flash, the red/green ready lights. [edit, i cleared the error by removing the battery, and put it back in to wait for ... Whatever i might try next, it was showing voltage.]

After about a half an hour away, i just went back to try the pulsing. i didn't have to pulse. The battery has been charged to 2.45v while in the waiting mode. It allowed me to start the li-fe charge without the "check voltage" error?

did the charger trickle charge this while waiting for me to initiate the program? If so, very smart charger!

if not, what could be going on?

Going to intentionally drain the battery again in the light, and see what happens with a dmm attached.


----------



## Devon

Looks like it ran a program on the battery that contained trickle.

To get my LiIons going I used the NiMH with the target voltage as high as it would go and used a very low current. Only took 20 to 30 seconds or so to bring them up above 2v I think it is to do away with the check voltage error on the LiIon programs.

I'm sure there are other ways of achieving the same result using this charger.

Be very careful what you use that battery for now as the damage done may not be apparent until it all goes wrong.


----------



## retrocon

Well, what's interesting is that i had staged the battery, but had NOT initiated a program, so it seems like it noticed it was low, and took the initiative without a program being activated. One was selected, the battery was inserted, but i never started the Program (this time).


----------



## tjh

I ran a 1A discharge for 1 hour, 31 minutes and 33 seconds.

That's 5493 seconds.

5493/3600*1000 = 1526

But the charger only reported 1452

The reason for this is clear to me: When trying to reach the termination voltage, the charger ramps down the current. It also ramps it up slowly over the first 3-4 seconds.







So I see a lower reported voltage than what the "perfect" calculation gives.

*NOTE*: This is opposite to what's reported above, which is that doing the per-second calculation showed less discharge than the charger, not more.

NOTE NOTE: To clarify, this was a NiMH, 1A discharge, termination set to end at 1.10 volts but I pulled the battery a bit before it properly finished because I was in a rush.


----------



## kreisl

tjh said:


> I ran a 1A discharge for 1 hour, 31 minutes and 33 seconds.
> 
> That's 5493 seconds.
> 
> 5493/3600*1000 = 1526
> 
> But the charger only reported 1452


this is a quirk of the pcls, the log is some seconds (up to half a minute) shorter than what the device (lcd) is counting (total time, mAh). ive listed it months ago under pcls bugs. an acceptable workaround is the following:

in your program (SPV) add a resting phase after the Charge (or Discharge) operation, for example DISCHARGE operation mode -1.00A with D.RESTING 10min. You will see that the log contains the full Discharge run (please time it with your Timex stop watch!) and it shows only 9:XXmin resting phase, even though the device did do 10min resting (please time this also with your Timex).

oh well.

so in case of doubt (device? log?), the device is the correct one. counts and stops time correctly, measures mAh correctly, fully, no missing blabla.


----------



## bosko90

These strange things is happening to me too. 

DataExplorer : 1:47:50 -0,2A 475 mAh during this time it should go out 359 mAh 

Charger time is: 2:22:34 and 475 mAh calculation > 475,2 mAh

Time of DataExplorer is running slower than real time


----------



## kreisl

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=4853179&viewfull=1#post4853179


----------



## mrQQ

kreisl said:


> Log shows 1.616V.
> Which battery is that? Exact model/make, all details please. I will try to test run the same battery on my system in order to see if my log differs from yours.
> 
> Even better, try to test standard Eneloop and NCR18650's and see if you get again a math mismatch. These are the batteries which i have at hand.



It's actually an alkaline primary, but that should not matter, because capacity just needs discharge current and time? I can try with eneloop of course.


----------



## mrQQ

Ok, this is a log of partial discharge of partially charged eneloop @ 1A: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...3328&authkey=!AJUQskH3Cri5_jQ&ithint=file,zip

Discharging time: 23 minutes 24 seconds. Total discharged capacity = (23*60+24)/3600*1000 = 390mAh, however last log line is already up to 404mAh.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Today i quick-tested my new (=unused) Protected NCR18650B Seiko Gold Plated, datecode *2014-09-27*, just to check the calibration level of my unit. I had calibrated my charger a month ago after my UT61E digital multimeter, so the mc3k capacity readings would equal exactly what my DMM would read. ...



kreisl, I am running this same test but with the C>D>C for new NCR18650B protected. Same parameters down to 2.5v.

I noticed if I start the batteries in different slots, the IR can be up and down from 80-90mohm to 130-200. It seems to be slot dependent. Is this the grease issue you referred to earlier, or FW? I am on FW 1.02. I haven't fully characterized it, but it looks like Slots 3 and 4 give different and higher IR for same battery. Then Slot 3 is lower when Slot 4 is not used. So, something in the measurement is not right matched to batteries. I may be doing something wrong because I'm just starting the C cycle, and then reading the IR. 

Can you provide some insight? I did read the old discussions on IR, and I'm not putting it all together right. My impression is that IR is maybe algorithmically dependent, and I was thinking the IR should be consistent between slots for the same batter.


----------



## kreisl

mrQQ said:


> Ok, this is a log of partial discharge of partially charged eneloop @ 1A: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...3328&authkey=!AJUQskH3Cri5_jQ&ithint=file,zip
> 
> Discharging time: 23 minutes 24 seconds. Total discharged capacity = (23*60+24)/3600*1000 = 390mAh, however last log line is already up to 404mAh.



shoot in the wild. disconnect charger from PC, disactivate bluetooth on phone, reset charger, do a full discharge test run on Eneloop (with D.RESTING: 10min) and stop the time with an external watch. when finished, go into sov and check total time and routine time (10min rest) and compare with your stopwatch. maybe something's off with your mc3k internal clocker.

Here my run of Eneloop -1.00A, CUT TIME: 30min. All 100% perfect:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/ir199q


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

check the calibration of your device. this will be rather independent from excessive grease.

if it didn't help 100%, then the grease is the matter. use a Q-tip and clean the top face of the rails (facing the sky/ceiling). no disassembly needed.

then check calibration again.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> check the calibration of your device. this will be rather independent from excessive grease.
> 
> if it didn't help 100%, then the grease is the matter. use a Q-tip and clean the top face of the rails (facing the sky/ceiling). no disassembly needed.
> 
> then check calibration again.



Thanks, will do. I've decided to do the fan mode given the pics here of the new hw version that essentially is the fan mod you outlined (yours was better with the bevel cuts to use the clips). The reason for the mod is now I know to do capacity measurements, with Li Ion, it's 70C on my unit. And to refresh NiMH, the fan did come on. I think the unit will last longer with fewer moving parts, so having a better cooling setup will allow the fan to last longer.

I will post the results of my first li ion cycle with capacities later. Boy these take up to most of a day


----------



## DeeFff

B-2Admirer said:


> I just wanted to share a hidden setting I found (LCD Contrast), but did a search and saw that *kreisl* had already mentioned it (I somehow missed that post)
> 
> Well, FWIW I can at least say that it's present in the FW 1.02 as well :shrug:



While getting to know my newly-arrived MC3000, I stumbled upon this setting . I had some difficulty interpreting what I saw, as "CONTRAST" is misspelled as "CONSTAST". :shrug:


----------



## bosko90

kreisl said:


> this was listed already see the list under DEX



where I check this? :$


----------



## kreisl

bosko90 said:


> where I check this? :$



tinyurl.com/mc3k-list


----------



## kreisl

bosko90 said:


> Time of DataExplorer is running slower than real time


In DEX beita dc 2016-03-01 the timing is now perfectly correct, no more delays during START and or during the program, i am testing it right now. Important to note, one needs to deinstall/uninstall the previous DEX version completely; the file _MC3000.jar_ will then be deleted too. The new installation will contain a file called _SkyRC.jar_ which has the fixed code. A file named _MC3000.jar_ is no more part of the package bye.

My sincere thanks fly out to the DEX main programmer Winne who is, and always was, highly motivated to improve the open software! He is fully dedicated and focused on the DEX development project :thumbsup:

EDIT: Check the box "Continuous record set" on the "Miscellaneous"-tab under "Preferences" and you will get a continuous graph over Total Time, same as PCLS graphs logs.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can I buy another fan, because doing the reverse mod and cleaning the grease I put to manny pressure on the fan and I break the supports in the center, it's working with no noise but I prefer change the fan rather than have this one broke. :/


----------



## dssguy1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I guess kreisl forgot to put "don't push on the middle of the fan when seating the fan". Or maybe he considered that obvious.... Good luck finding a 15v replacement fan. If it is running fine with no noise, I would leave it alone, just my opinion though. You could put a couple dabs of super glue on the supports if they are still somewhat intact.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

:/


:/

:/​


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



morcegolas said:


> Can I buy another fan, because doing the reverse mod and cleaning the grease I put to manny pressure on the fan and I break the supports in the center, it's working with no noise but I prefer change the fan rather than have this one broke. :/



I bought and tested this fan using an adjustable power supply. At 12v the current was.12A. at 15v it was about .14A. It was very quiet and could be turned over without the rotor or blades hitting. It came with the same plug as the MC3000 fan. I didn't try it in the MC3000 but suspect it would work fine. I paid about $8 from Amazon because I wanted it in 2 days (Amazon Prime). It was available from several Chinese suppliers for only a couple of dollars shipped.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MYNWWXE/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

On one the chargers. The fan starting to sound strange than usual.


----------



## gyzmo2002

MarioJP said:


> On one the chargers. The fan starting to sound strange than usual.



Check mine on post #2579. It is noisy only at start up for about 20-25sec.

Wait a bit for the video to be downloaded.


----------



## mrQQ

kreisl said:


> shoot in the wild. disconnect charger from PC, disactivate bluetooth on phone, reset charger, do a full discharge test run on Eneloop (with D.RESTING: 10min) and stop the time with an external watch. when finished, go into sov and check total time and routine time (10min rest) and compare with your stopwatch. maybe something's off with your mc3k internal clocker.
> 
> Here my run of Eneloop -1.00A, CUT TIME: 30min. All 100% perfect:
> https://www.sendspace.com/file/ir199q




Ouch  I would hate to pay the shipping back to replace it, not to mention the wait time...


----------



## MarioJP

mrQQ said:


> Ouch  I would hate to pay the shipping back to replace it, not to mention the wait time...


The fact both of my chargers has the fan backwards. I did thought about it. But you are right. Not worth the wait time and shipping fees. I mean, It still cools for the most part. I guess that's the price we pay for being early adopters lol.


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



dssguy1 said:


> I guess kreisl forgot to put "don't push on the middle of the fan when seating the fan". Or maybe he considered that obvious.... Good luck finding a 15v replacement fan. If it is running fine with no noise, I would leave it alone, just my opinion though. You could put a couple dabs of super glue on the supports if they are still somewhat intact.



How about adding 5 diodes in series to give 12.0v to the fan?


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

*The reversed fan gives improved cooling.* With the downward fan direction cooling is adequate for a discharge of 4 fully charged 18650s at .8A. With the upward fan direction the cooling is adequate for discharge of four fully charged 18650s at .9A to.95A. When the starting system temperature is below 70℉, 1A discharge will not have current limiting. 

For the longest component life it is best to not discharge four fully charged 18650s at more than .8A. Discharge results are not much different at .5A or .2C (.68A for 3400mAh cells). This works fine with either fan direction and is much easier on the charger. Heat is the enemy of long component life.

Discharge of four fully charged 18650s takes over 3 hours. Maximum temperature is reached at 30 to 40 minutes of discharge. Meaningful reduction of the system temperature requires about two hours.

Those users who have cut out the grill have better results because axial fans do not support air flow restrictions very well. I personally don't like cutting out the grill.


----------



## bosko90

kreisl said:


> In DEX beita dc 2016-03-01 the timing is now perfectly correct, no more delays during START and or during the program, i am testing it right now. Important to note, one needs to deinstall/uninstall the previous DEX version completely; the file _MC3000.jar_ will then be deleted too. The new installation will contain a file called _SkyRC.jar_ which has the fixed code. A file named _MC3000.jar_ is no more part of the package bye.
> 
> My sincere thanks fly out to the DEX main programmer Winne who is, and always was, highly motivated to improve the open software! He is fully dedicated and focused on the DEX development project :thumbsup:
> 
> EDIT: Check the box "Continuous record set" on the "Miscellaneous"-tab under "Preferences" and you will get a continuous graph over Total Time, same as PCLS graphs logs.



:thumbsup: sounds good  
I only find 3.2.4 version. So that will have to wait.

Another strange thing. why do not stop charging the NiMh battery? I Charging one new AAA complet (none of them isn't stopped) and one old AA complet (only 1 stopped). Delta peak is 3 mV and charging current is 300 mA.. Do you think it is bad battery?


----------



## billcushman

bosko90 said:


> Another strange thing. why do not stop charging the NiMh battery? I Charging one new AAA complet (none of them isn't stopped) and one old AA complet (only 1 stopped). Delta peak is 3 mV and charging current is 300 mA.. Do you think it is bad battery?



To get an adequate -dV/dt signal you should charge at a minimum of .5C. Try .45A for the AAA and 1A for the AA. If they still don't terminate properly, try reducing the delta peak to 2mv or 1mv. As an alternative you could terminate on voltage.


----------



## bosko90

ok i will try. it's strange to me because my previus charger (everactive nc1000) is terminate normaly at charging current 200 mA on AA battery


----------



## HKJ

bosko90 said:


> ok i will try. it's strange to me because my previus charger (everactive nc1000) is terminate normaly at charging current 200 mA on AA battery



Try reading this article: http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html


----------



## tjh

bosko90 said:


> ok i will try. it's strange to me because my previus charger (everactive nc1000) is terminate normaly at charging current 200 mA on AA battery


You old charger probably terminates on voltage, or doesn't let you charge with a C rating low enough to stop the -dv/dt signal. Voltage is a "safe" and easy way to terminate, but will leave the battery not at full capacity. Which is why most chargers that terminate on voltage then apply a "top up" charge. The reference for this is the great C9000, it almost always terminates on v1.48 then applies a 100ma charge for 2 hours.

The MC3000 supports "proper" -dv/dt termination, but as mentioned for a battery to give the -dv/dt signal you must charge it at an appropriate current, usually 0.5C.

But again, the great thing about the MC3000 is you can adjust its parameters if you want to make it terminate on v1.48, or v1.50 or *whatever you want*. Or you can set a maximum charge timeout, so you know if you're going to charge at 0.3C then you want a timeout of ~4 hours so you don't overcharge. You can adjust the -dv/dt signal required for the charger to trigger end-of-charge.

So in the process of giving you an insane amount of flexibility, it does open some corner cases where it's possible to miss NiMH termination because of the settings used. This isn't the chargers fault


----------



## mrQQ

kreisl said:


> shoot in the wild. disconnect charger from PC, disactivate bluetooth on phone, reset charger, do a full discharge test run on Eneloop (with D.RESTING: 10min) and stop the time with an external watch. when finished, go into sov and check total time and routine time (10min rest) and compare with your stopwatch. maybe something's off with your mc3k internal clocker.
> 
> Here my run of Eneloop -1.00A, CUT TIME: 30min. All 100% perfect:
> https://www.sendspace.com/file/ir199q




I think there is something wrong with monitor app. I took a look at it's time counter, and it seems to skip two seconds each minute. As in, it jumps from :04 to :06 for example.

edit: perhaps not, even though it jumps seconds on display, its minute still takes a real minute.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> When this kind of stuff happens, try once more and see if you get a more reasonable value.



@HKJ:

Great to see you here and I have some questions for you in battery tests.

I just tested 12 NCR18650B protecteds and found your review very helpful !!! thank you.

On those, you noted the target cutoff should be 2.5v, but the protection would cut off at 2.75v.
I set it to 2.5v and ending current at 0.06A. 
I noted that the charger did take it down to 2.5v without a cutoff. Should the protection stop the discharge at 2.75v? Does this mean that those protection circuits are not working? Your tests were run at 2.8v limit, so I cannot tell what the charger/battery protection should be doing.

For 12 tested (I am building bike battery packs for myself and a friend), I got 1 dud that was clearly corroded on the outside. Have no idea why they would ship that. Others are fine. I will post data later if anyone here are interested.

@kreisl:

Thank you too!

I cleaned the grease off the rails with QTips, and you are 100% right. It does cause IR problems and in my prev discussion with you, I had not understood the rails actually provide contact to the sliding 'bookend' contact. So, the grease indeed is in the circuit. By pressing hard to seat the battery and having the rails cleaned, the IRs are now between 80-110mohm, vs some at 80-90 and others at 130-250 mohm. Very interesting. Thank you, and I will take the unit apart to do the mod on fan and other cleanups (more thermal grease to heat sinks, clean the underside of the rails, soften sharp edges ...). I would think over time, if the grease picks up dirt, the IR would be more inconsistent so the clean you recommended is right by me.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> *The reversed fan gives improved cooling.* ... I personally don't like cutting out the grill.



Bill,

I will be reversing the fan because it will last longer if it is used less. The differences noted here are quite a lot by the T's quoted. It's not just temp, but the heat that goes with it and that heat load is wear and tear on the fan.

Also, I agree on the grill. But it can be easy to put a different grill over the hole to keep a finger out and allow free airflow. So many options at the hardware store and a pair of tin snips. I will probably try for that. I don't even think it needs a finger width ... even 1" spacing ok because all one needs is to block your hand in case you want to pick it up while charging (v rare case).


----------



## Joe Kidd

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

2650+ posts. The manufacturer should take note of all the revisional engineering and thank all you guys and the site as well! :twothumbs


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



chemEJoe said:


> Bill,
> 
> I will be reversing the fan because it will last longer if it is used less. The differences noted here are quite a lot by the T's quoted. It's not just temp, but the heat that goes with it and that heat load is wear and tear on the fan.



The fan is seldom required except for high power discharge. With the downward fan, all air flowing over the fan is hot. With the upward fan, air flowing over the fan is cool. The fan is a brushless fan, and its life should be many thousand of hours.

Here is a link to the specs for a typical 30x30x7mm fan. Life is quoted as 30,000 hours.
http://www.bedek.de/files/luefter-technik/fan_search/datasheets/m-fan-datasheet-DA03007.pdf


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



chemEJoe said:


> @HKJ:
> 
> Great to see you here and I have some questions for you in battery tests.
> 
> I just tested 12 NCR18650B protecteds and found your review very helpful !!! thank you.
> 
> On those, you noted the target cutoff should be 2.5v, but the protection would cut off at 2.75v.
> I set it to 2.5v and ending current at 0.06A.
> I noted that the charger did take it down to 2.5v without a cutoff. Should the protection stop the discharge at 2.75v? Does this mean that those protection circuits are not working? Your tests were run at 2.8v limit, so I cannot tell what the charger/battery protection should be doing.
> 
> For 12 tested (I am building bike battery packs for myself and a friend), I got 1 dud that was clearly corroded on the outside. Have no idea why they would ship that. Others are fine. I will post data later if anyone here are interested.



Protection chips exist with different protection voltages, the best is to select one that is slightly below the minimum discharge voltage. Most manufacturers looks like they do not know what protection chip they select and may very well use different chips in different batches of cells (A guess, I have not checked this).
I did test a few protections here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/DischargeProtectionTest UK.html
To check if the protection works you basically needs to run the cell down to 1.9 volt. It is safe to do this, but you must charge the cell slowly afterwards and the cell may loose some capacity.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> The fan is seldom required except for high power discharge. With the downward fan, all air flowing over the fan is hot. With the upward fan, air flowing over the fan is cool. The fan is a brushless fan, and its life should be many thousand of hours.
> 
> Here is a link to the specs for a typical 30x30x7mm fan. Life is quoted as 30,000 hours.
> http://www.bedek.de/files/luefter-technik/fan_search/datasheets/m-fan-datasheet-DA03007.pdf



Thanks for the fan info, I didn't know it was brushless, I'm old tech I guess. Still it is the moving parts.

My fan is on pretty much continuously for the D cycle at -.65A on Li Ion 18650s. It is keeping systemp about 60-70 deg (I am not logging yet so just spot checking. The Android 2.8 app is great, but the Bluetooth range is about 8 ft, so I cannot check it from my desk (I don't want to lave that thing on with all my papers on my desk, in case I have an accident .

So, I think the fan is a needed thing, and if it's just a temp delta, that would be fine. But the heat in that temp delta with the heat capacities of the different heat holders in the system means that fan is working hard over the life of any discharge uses. That's all I'm saying, it's probably worth it to mod it if people don't want to find a fan years later. Me, I know once I get to use it and understand it, I probably don't have time to come back to play with the unit. What I love is I can play with the unit to eval my battery buys/recycles in years to come. That part of my use of 'green' batteries has always been bugging me, and now with this charger and this forum, I understand what to do to be more green. Those AAA throwaways add up to environmental damage.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Protection chips exist with different protection voltages .... Most manufacturers looks like they do not know what protection chip they select and may very well use different chips in different batches of cells (A guess, I have not checked this).



Thank you HKJ!

This is the battery that I'm working with, from GB:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh (Green) UK.html

Your tip that they may use different circuits hit the mark then. Perhaps these do not cut off at 2.75v as your quote of specs noted (and I guess that's what you meant by not all the data was right, thank you for this discussion then.)



HKJ said:


> I did test a few protections here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/DischargeProtectionTest UK.html
> To check if the protection works you basically needs to run the cell down to 1.9 volt. It is safe to do this, but you must charge the cell slowly afterwards and the cell may loose some capacity.



Hmmm, I'll probably not test this to that level, as I just wanted to understand what I have and learn to use and maintain these batteries. I don't mind losing capacity (and V from the protection circuit) because I am just happy to not be blindly using a $200 bike light that doesn't perform as well or is not as safe as a $18 light from China + these batteries and charger.

I read your discharge protection link and that was fine work. 

Overall, I will take your input that the specs are wrong in places and possibly this battery is set to trip low v at 2.5 instead of 2.75. Also, noted is your comment that the manuf may be using different protection circuits between batches. That then means this charger and battery are behaving normally as expected, I thank you for the assurance. Is that what you meant?

I haven't gotten to the point of understanding the pulse method to recover a tripped protection circuit, but I take it if I take out the battery (say it tripped in the field) and put it in the charger, the charging algorithms will do their job to reset the protection? 

Thank you for conversing with me, a newbie. You guys, all of you, are amazing. I hope over time I can contribute back.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



chemEJoe said:


> Overall, I will take your input that the specs are wrong in places and possibly this battery is set to trip low v at 2.5 instead of 2.75. Also, noted is your comment that the manuf may be using different protection circuits between batches. That then means this charger and battery are behaving normally as expected, I thank you for the assurance. Is that what you meant?



Yes.




chemEJoe said:


> I haven't gotten to the point of understanding the pulse method to recover a tripped protection circuit, but I take it if I take out the battery (say it tripped in the field) and put it in the charger, the charging algorithms will do their job to reset the protection?



Not all chargers will do that, sometimes you have to do it manually:


----------



## dssguy1

billcushman said:


> *The reversed fan gives improved cooling.* With the downward fan direction cooling is adequate for a discharge of 4 fully charged 18650s at .8A. With the upward fan direction the cooling is adequate for discharge of four fully charged 18650s at .9A to.95A. When the starting system temperature is below 70℉, 1A discharge will not have current limiting.
> 
> For the longest component life it is best to not discharge four fully charged 18650s at more than .8A. Discharge results are not much different at .5A or .2C (.68A for 3400mAh cells). This works fine with either fan direction and is much easier on the charger. Heat is the enemy of long component life.
> 
> Discharge of four fully charged 18650s takes over 3 hours. Maximum temperature is reached at 30 to 40 minutes of discharge. Meaningful reduction of the system temperature requires about two hours.
> 
> Those users who have cut out the grill have better results because axial fans do not support air flow restrictions very well. I personally don't like cutting out the grill.



I get nowhere near your temps so maybe just stick to making comments about your own charger.

67 degrees max on my charger at 4 x 1amp.

Difference could be the removed grill mod. Guess you will never know if you don't do it? Why so adverse to removing the grill? It's not like you need to move the charger around while it's working.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Not all chargers will do that, sometimes you have to do it manually:



Ha ha, very cool. I guess this is the trick they teach on youtubes to revive one's power drill battery packs. Thanks.

I read earlier on this thread that the MC3000 has that pulse mode, so if it's what you mean, I'll learn it when I get there. This is relating to that NiMH bug that may or may not be fixed in the new upcoming firmware, where one has to reboot the charger to get pulse mode back.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is there anyway to monitor and record MC3000's system temperature from a PC? 

PCLS, some of the cell settings are missing and/or not the same as the UI advance mode settings. Plus there is no charger configuration settings or monitoring. 

Is more PCLS functionality planned for future PCLS versions?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Is there anyway to monitor and record MC3000's system temperature from a PC?
> 
> PCLS, some of the cell settings are missing and/or not the same as the UI advance mode settings. Plus there is no charger configuration settings or monitoring.
> 
> Is more PCLS functionality planned for future PCLS versions?


vaguely planned i guess sometimes i send them a pair of questions  and don't get an answer back and i forget that i had sent that email lol afaik nobody is working on the PCLS development neither has it been scheduled they are willing to fix urgent bugs in the existing PCLS code asap but be it as it may firmware bug fixing and firmware further development is the only priority as is still mine how could PCLS get possibly more seamlessly adapted to mc3k if the firmware is still under notable development there are imho "lots" of notable changes introduced between 103 and 104 and they would eventually affect PCLS coding hence it is wise to let PCLS development slumber as long as the firmware gets changes next week they'll look at introducing a new option in spv as was suggested by me and btw SysTemp parameter is afaik not sent out to the usb channel thus neither dex nor pcls could possibly be recording it i had asked them about it a year ago and it was one of those questions which they preferred to keep silent about it's okay we can't expect them to give us everything which would technically be feasible obviously it's them who draw de line


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

That's along the lines I was thinking. It's better to first upgrade and fix issues with the firmware, before improving add-on development. However it's beneficial for a device to also have PC setup and configuration software. 

Apparently features such as a system temperature in PCLS would require additional modifications to the firmware. Perhaps if there's no significant memory limitations, PCLS could be further developed as both a setup/configuration and monitor application.

After my initial MC3K China order, with expedited shipping, that was changed to a snail shipping taking over a month, no tracking, possibly become lost via snail delivery. I ordered another MC3000 from Progressive RC along with a Square Trade 3 year extended warranty. Charger arrived within a couple of days.

I've not had any problems. The charger been working as expected. 

To monitor the system temperature from the UI a cell # was selected, scrolling down to system temp. The cell display would then time out, going back to the main menu. To monitor system temp another cell # selection was required. Perhaps this can be changed to allow a cell menu to not automatically revert back to the main menu, or a system temp and other information could be displayed from the main or an optional system menu?

Results testing system temperatures @ 1 amp discharge.

4 x Samsung - IRC18650-26F

Fan = Auto 
Room temperature - ~21 C (~70 F) 
Fan On - ~46 C (115 F)
~12 mins. - ~76 C (170 F)
~15 mins. - ~80 C (175 F)
~25 mins. - ~84 C (184 F)
~33 mins. - ~83 C (183 F) (sys temp. stayed here for most of discharge)


----------



## billcushman

dssguy1 said:


> I get nowhere near your temps so maybe just stick to making comments about your own charger.
> 
> 67 degrees max on my charger at 4 x 1amp.
> 
> Difference could be the removed grill mod. Guess you will never know if you don't do it? Why so adverse to removing the grill? It's not like you need to move the charger around while it's working.



I have tested system temperature on seven MC3000s. All results are essentially the same. Cutting out the grill is butchering up the charger and destroys the CE and other certifications. The manufacturer will never do it and I won't either.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Results testing system temp with 4 x 18650's @ 1 amp discharge.
> 
> Fan = Auto
> Room temperature - ~70 deg. F
> Fan On - 115 deg. F
> ~12 mins. - ~76 C (170 F)
> ~15 mins. - ~80 C (175 F)
> ~25 mins. - ~84 C (184 F)
> ~33 mins. - ~83 C (183 F) (sys temp. stayed here for most of discharge)



Albert, if you are recording on PCLS while doing the discharge test you can easily see if any current limiting occurs. If the system temperature reaches 185℉ (85℃) current limiting will occur until the temperature drops a few degrees. It will then return to full current. This cycle will repeat until the temperature falls below 185℉ (85℃) If the ambient is higher than 70℉, you will probably see current limiting.

Your results are typical of all units I have tested with the reversed fan.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



billcushman said:


> Albert, if you are recording on PCLS while doing the discharge test you can easily see if any current limiting occurs. If the system temperature reaches 185℉ (85℃) current limiting will occur until the temperature drops a few degrees. It will then return to full current. This cycle will repeat until the temperature falls below 185℉ (85℃) If the ambient is higher than 70℉, you will probably see current limiting.
> 
> Your results are typical of all units I have tested with the reversed fan.



I figured the results are typical. I was mainly wondering if there's a method to record system temperature at the same time cell temperatures.

I've also been experimenting with storage mode and settings such as termination and d.reduce as the default settings have kept the tested Lion batteries in storage mode for hours while at a storage target voltage. Only after re-inserting batteries did the storage algorithm end the storage mode cycle.

*** 

I don't think I'll be needing two MC3K's and may be putting up the second charger for sale after it arrives. 

I figure total selling cost will be $95.00 with free USPS Priority shipping to destinations in the US, includes USPS tracking. Original sales receipt - invoice included. For an additional $15.00 a 3 Year Square Trade extended warranty can be included. (warranty would be specific to charger's serial number and purchaser's name and address)


----------



## dssguy1

billcushman said:


> I have tested system temperature on seven MC3000s. All results are essentially the same. Cutting out the grill is butchering up the charger and destroys the CE and other certifications. The manufacturer will never do it and I won't either.



LOL, CE certifications. Like the ones the chargers don't even have from the first generation (like mine). Yeah, not really worried about that paperwork exercise. I purchase highly modified flashlights, none of those have any kind of warranty or certifications but they sure are fun.

I guess some people are willing to make some "risky" adjustments to better the life of their equipment and others write novels on why or why we shouldn't care. Took 5 minutes, done, don't need to worry about it anymore.

I'm also pretty sure when you opened your device AND modified it, you ruined any ability to maintain the CE/UE/whatever certification you are so worried about.

Wow, 7 MC3000s, that seems like an abnormally large number being used to make your point.


----------



## HKJ

dssguy1 said:


> LOL, CE certifications. Like the ones the chargers don't even have from the first generation (like mine). Yeah, not really worried about that paperwork exercise. I purchase highly modified flashlights, none of those have any kind of warranty or certifications but they sure are fun.



CE certifications has it advantages, especially if it is real.
Working with electronic I both love and hate it. The good part is that anything that passes the CE approval is fairly robust, the bad thing is the cost. Without the CE certification I would probably be designing a lot more electronic stuff, but with certification nobody will pay to make it saleable. In my opinion CE certification has killed (or prevented them from ever existing) a lot of small companies, but it has also made electronic more reliable. This depends on country, in some countries you can mostly ignore CE (Especially outside EU) and still sell the product.


----------



## chemEJoe

HKJ said:


> In my opinion CE certification has killed (or prevented them from ever existing) a lot of small companies, but it has also made electronic more reliable.



Ah, and this is why this forum and other places online exist. With global sourcing going to ebay and ali express now, small companies can put out product to be sold to consumers all around the world, and then it's up to consumers to use them safely. 

In starting to understand this, I realized the $20 toy drone I got from Costco, for my son, needs a proper system around it so I/he can use it safely. At least I need a fireproof charging bag, but then, I need to get a fwe spares so it's not just 3 hrs charge, 1 minute play. 

This MC charger is not designed for that form factor, but that's how I got here. I started to buy the cheap but powerful bike lights, so much less expensive than the branded lights for less candlepower.

So, this CE rating or other approval certs ... they are good for mass reliable sales of proven product. But I do think innovation is happening and the channels are ebay and ali express and other places. Small companies will find a way to exist, I guess.

Hey HKJ, design more stuff and partner with a manufacturer to take the risk out of the equation.


----------



## chemEJoe

billcushman said:


> I have tested system temperature on seven MC3000s. All results are essentially the same. Cutting out the grill is butchering up the charger and destroys the CE and other certifications. The manufacturer will never do it and I won't either.



Hi Bill:

I've been doing inbound QC on 12 Li Ions, and the fan has been running pretty much continuously on my unit at .65A discharge. Today, I increase D current to 0.9A. System got up to 83 degrees and clipped D current to 0.8A in slots 1 and 2. I put a laptop cooler below it, and it cooled it to 81C, and slots 1 and 2 went back to 0.9A. Then 20 mins later, I checked and it was clipped again at 0.8A in slots 1 and 2, and temp was up to 83C with the laptop cooler one. So I think all that does is blow hot air back up into the unit.

Later when I came back during the charge cycle, the fan was still on, and then it went into a fan grind mode - very loud. I tapped it and the sound went away. After a bit, the fan finally shut off as it should for the charge cycle systemp being lower. Last run, the fan ran all the way through the charge cycle. (I am guessing this is the temp sensor problem, so when I open it up, I will make sure sensors are well thermally connected to intended locations).

So, I'd say the fan mod is worth the effort, especially since Kreisl's mod is better than the new factory version someone photo'd here - it shows just a reversed fan with more glue, ignoring the clips. Kriesl beveled the edge of the fan so the clips would work.

On cutting out the grill or not, I'd side with you - those grills should not provide too much pressure drop, esp at low air flow. Also, the topside grill would need to be cut out to if you believe in grills being a problem.

Anyway, cutting grill or not I feel, without data, would not affect it much. It's the reversing that helps a lot.


----------



## Minimoog

HKJ said:


> CE certifications has it advantages, especially if it is real.
> Working with electronic I both love and hate it. The good part is that anything that passes the CE approval is fairly robust, the bad thing is the cost. Without the CE certification I would probably be designing a lot more electronic stuff, but with certification nobody will pay to make it saleable. In my opinion CE certification has killed (or prevented them from ever existing) a lot of small companies, but it has also made electronic more reliable. This depends on country, in some countries you can mostly ignore CE (Especially outside EU) and still sell the product.



My job is doing CB tests for electronic products. I spend hours diffusing upset customers whose products FAIL the tests because of non-compliance of internal parts and construction. But some customers are very happy and pleased with what we do because they prepared beforehand by only using approved components and following basic safety rules when designing their product. Really, it is very simple - don't place bulk orders with suppliers who don't have the approval data needed and when designing your unit use someone who understands what is needed.


----------



## billcushman

*Hi chemEJoe, if you discharge at .65A everything is fine with either fan direction.* The reversed fan does help cooling as has been discussed fully. It doesn't assure that you can discharge at 1A without current limiting under all conditions. 

If you have the downward fan, there is some benefit in reversing the fan. If you have the downward fan, a laptop cooler will probably not help. With the upward fan the laptop cooler may help. Cutting out the grill will probably have a significant effect, particularly with the reversed fan. I prefer to not modify the case.

If you want to discharge at 1A, just use three batteries rather than four. Check how much capacity difference you get if you discharge at .5A vs .65A or 1A. My personal choice is 4 batteries at .5A or .2C, two or three batteries at 1A, and one battery at 2A. This should also be fine with either fan direction.


----------



## chemEJoe

billcushman said:


> *Hi chemEJoe, if you discharge at .65A everything is fine with either fan direction.*



Yes, Bill, I agree. Just that the fan comes on a lot, so I will reverse to reduce fan loading over life.



billcushman said:


> If you have the downward fan, a laptop cooler will probably not help.



Yep, I have the downward fan and I found out the laptop cooler didn't help lol. I will later reverse the fan for upward blowing. I will probably not cut the grill as my gut tells me with the upper grill and low air flow, we cannot improve heat transfer just cutting the bottom grill.



billcushman said:


> If you want to discharge at 1A, just use three batteries rather than four. Check how much capacity difference you get if you discharge at .5A vs .65A or 1A. My personal choice is 4 batteries at .5A or .2C, two or three batteries at 1A, and one battery at 2A. This should also be fine with either fan direction.



Thanks for this. I guess for me D is to get a capacity just to check state of the battery, or for now incoming QC as I found a dud out of 12 that I bought. I don't know the current draw of the lights I plan to use this with, so it's not important unless I measure the current while using the lamps. That is, if I match the D current for capacity tests to the equipment, that should get me a good idea of run-time.

----

On another vein, so far I have noticed the IR measurements are very dependent on how well I seat the battery in the slots. So, the range seems to be 80-105, and if I seat it wrong, about 130-150. By moving between the slots, using a qtip to clean grease off the rails, etc, I can get the IR reading to 80-105. So I guess that reading isn't very precise and repeatable for the same battery at the moment when testing. I know a lot of people wrote about this earlier in the thread and I will go back and read them now that I've seen some behavior.

Finally, a question: If I'm not using PC logging, can I go back to get the D capacity if I missed the window between C>D>C rest periods to pick up the D capacity numbers? I keep coming back about 10 mins after the final C starts, and there I go, I miss some important data.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## billcushman

chemEJoe said:


> Finally, a question: If I'm not using PC logging, can I go back to get the D capacity if I missed the window between C>D>C rest periods to pick up the D capacity numbers? I keep coming back about 10 mins after the final C starts, and there I go, I miss some important data.



The present FW gives incorrect Wh reading in Refresh. For that reason I have settled on Charge and Discharge programs for all chemistries. This way I don't have to rush to take readings during the discharge part of the C>D>C cycle. You never miss getting the correct data. It is a little more trouble. It also is fine for checking discharge capacity after a couple of weeks of storage.

When FW 1.04 is finally released, many problems in the present FW will be fixed.

Reversing the fan will have little effect on the fan duty cycle. It is rarely needed during any charge program, and it will run almost all the time when discharging four cells, especially Li-Ion.


----------



## Devon

If the fan is in "auto" it runs quite often when charging even NiMH @1amp but typically only on lower speeds.

Mine blows air upwards.

When discharging 4 fully charged NCR18650GA's @1amp with an ambient temp of 25c, max system temp tops out around 73c.


----------



## MarioJP

I never understood how a charger in discharge mode works. Where does that energy go, and how is it regulated when the user puts in the discharge values?


----------



## HKJ

MarioJP said:


> I never understood how a charger in discharge mode works. Where does that energy go, and how is it regulated when the user puts in the discharge values?



Energy gets converted to heat, that is why the fan is required.
On the MC3000 it is regulated with four transistors mounted on the heatsink, they are turned more or less on by the microprocessor. Most other chargers uses resistors to handle the energy and smaller transistors that is either fully on or off.


----------



## mrQQ

kreisl said:


> shoot in the wild. disconnect charger from PC, disactivate bluetooth on phone, reset charger, do a full discharge test run on Eneloop (with D.RESTING: 10min) and stop the time with an external watch. when finished, go into sov and check total time and routine time (10min rest) and compare with your stopwatch. maybe something's off with your mc3k internal clocker.
> 
> Here my run of Eneloop -1.00A, CUT TIME: 30min. All 100% perfect:
> https://www.sendspace.com/file/ir199q



I found the issue, I'll post the analysis soon.

edit:

ok, here is the problem. First, some things which are NOT wrong:

1) the time passes at correct speed on the device, measured with chronometer. 10 minutes on LCD is exactly 10 minutes on clock
2) time also passes at correct speed on the monitor software.

Now, the problem. I've took an Eneloop and set it to discharge at 0.5A for 10 minutes. Look at this image:





As you can see, overall time passed on right hand information table is correct, 10 minutes. During those 10 minutes, 82mAh is being reported as discharged. Let's assume this is correct. Now look at the graph. The graph ends at 9 minutes 36 seconds, which would not be a problem, *HOWEVER* at that moment already whole 82mAh has been logged, even though that should only happen at 10 minute mark! Same problem appears in the log as well:





So it would seem, that somehow the logging/charting is lagging behind, however, the accumulated capacity is being used correct, present, which makes the whole issue to appear.

This is a serious problem for me, because I need logging to work correctly...


----------



## Albert_

Have you tried other USB ports?

PCLS doesn't adjust it's cell software settings exactly to the UI cell settings. Nor can it modify the UI settings. On my PC when PCLS cell cut-off setting is manually set to 10 mins, logging ended at 9:58 (vs 9:57 with PCLS set to it's default 180 mins).

PCLS more or less just sends and receives serial messages to and from MC3000 and waits for or sends a reply ACK verification. It's monitoring is not timed as close as with the UI LCD since it's over a USB serial data bus.

If your end time is 9:36 means something may interfering with your USB creating additional lag time. If you haven't done so already try setting PCLS cell settings to your UI cell settings.

I would also try re-installing your USB devices onto different ports and root hubs. When MC3000 is first connected to a USB port it installed to my OS as an USB HID, Human Interface Device using an USB HID input driver used for various types of USB devices such as mice, keyboards, game controllers, etc.

(stuff deleted)


----------



## kreisl

yep. what he said.

:thumbsup:


----------



## mrQQ

So you are saying you're going to teach all the end users to use USB debug viewer or...?

I mean, this is a bug. It's a huge problem. And it's not related to USB in any way, because it's a problem with logging: when time displays 10:00:00 in UI, it writes 09:36:00 in the file. That's the issue, not some USB yadda yadda.


----------



## Albert_

(stuff deleted)

I think it's a USB vulnerability.


----------



## mrQQ

You do understand, than PCLS shows 10:00:00, which is correct time? And that same second 09:36:00 is being written to file, which is incorrect time. So if the monitor app DOES know correct time, then how is this USB fault?


----------



## Albert_

(stuff deleted)

It's not USB's fault. USB not primarily designed for data sensitive applications. One of it's primary functions is the capability of using with with many different type of plug n play devices. Rapidly inserting and ejecting cable. There are many features in it's architecture not found in a typical RS-232 data cable and devices, which is designed more for stationary applications and devices, before there was any plug n play.


----------



## kreisl

mrQQ said:


> I mean, this is a bug. It's a huge problem.


I don't have such a bug, the maker team doesn't have the bug, we don't have that problem. And we cannot reproduce your bug/problem, so it remains "UNCONFIRMED".

So your device counts time correctly and measures mAh correctly? Probably your device is 100% fine.

So it is basically 'your system' (pc hardware, usb driver, operating system, etc) which etc.

I'd try a different system (different pc, os, and cable, maybe at neighbor's or friend's place), just to make sure that "you can get everything to work as it's supposed to work". Then return to your own system and ask yourself why things work well at your friend's system and not so well on your system.

Also try the upcoming version of dex.


----------



## Albert_

That pretty much settles an issue if a bug can't be reproduced. It would be impossible for a software developer to fix something that doesn't exist and can't be reproduced under various conditions on his pc.

On my pc it's two seconds off, tested several times using two different brand new USB cables. Apparently there's a usb bottleneck or overhead somewhere. Possibly there's a problem with my Vista USB universal drivers that are designed for many different types of usb devices. Could be something with the USB Hub controller and drivers. PC Bios, etc. 

I would need to change or modify something and the PCLS record the cut-off time to figure out why it's two seconds off.

3 min test

0:02:52 4.108 0.5 23 77.3
0:02:53 4.108 0.5 23 77.3
0:02:54 4.108 0.5 23 77.3
0:02:55 4.107 0.5 23 77.3
0:02:56 4.107 0.5 24 77.3
0:02:57 4.107 0.5 24 77.3
0:02:58 4.107 0.5 24 77.3 (last long entry)

------------------------------

_When troubleshooting application related issues you want to first rule out any hardware, driver, connection, cable and OS related problems. This can become time consuming perhaps requiring alot of trial and error. Require various utilities, going into areas of the OS and PC hard-wares not familiar, require some patient and learning. If not willing to learn more about certain issues, as each may be new and different, will make diagnosing problems very difficult if not impossible.
_
_As __kreisl stated, another method to troubleshoot is to try running the software application on other PCs or perhaps a PC with a freshly installed OS._


----------



## mrQQ

So it's related to the issue I've mentioned of jumping a second. Here's how it goes:

Tick# - PCLS TimeDisplayed - GraphTime Logged
1 - 00:00:00 - 00:00:00
2 - 00:00:01 - 00:00:01
3 - 00:00:02 - 00:00:02
4 - 00:00:*04* - 00:00:03

As I've mentioned, the time displayed on PCLS JUMPS a second randomly, twice a minute, eg from 00:00:02 to 00:00:04, while the graph/csv still counts each second. So that is where the difference comes from.

I've tried all the USB ports and it is the same. In fact, I have no idea how could this be related to USB, if it's clearly an issue with the software. Unless it's pulling the time it displays from the device, but that can only be confirmed by the developers.


----------



## chemEJoe

gyzmo2002 said:


> Noisy fan?
> 
> when it's a few hours it did not work, it made that noise at startup for about 20-25 seconds. First batch Stock charger without mod.
> 
> I think I'm better to order a new fan before playing with it.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ka3l6c3agttxucf/Vidéo 16-02-27 20 48 16.mov?dl=0



Hi gyzmo - I am now having grinding fan noises. It was continuous and I had to abort a run. Then I set the fan to ON, and it just grinds away. I tapped it and it seems to be quieter.

Did yours continue? I have not modded anything, nor have I opened the unit. Just seeing where this thread went, and what the conclusion was before I contact GB. I have the fan blowing downward to the tabletop.


----------



## chemEJoe

Inbound QC of 12 NCR18650B Protected from GB, reviewed here by HKJ:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh (Green) UK.html

1 was a dud with corroded ends, should have been caught by outbound QC. No voltage, so MC3000 gets no credit  Probably the protection circuit is bad, and the cell is ok. I may take it apart to play with it to end up with an unprotected cell if the innards are good.

11 were good, with 5 measured D capacities at:

Disch Capacity Avg: 3286mAh, 22.4 Std Dev
(I used 0.9A to discharge, 0.06A termination).

IR Avg: 102, Std Dev 11.7 (with heavy adjusting of battery seating)

Note IR was all over the map depending on grease on rails and setup (had to move batteries around, start, see of it was reasonable as some were >150mOhm) So my thinking is that IR is probably not going to be too accurate +/- 50mohms as there is contact resistance from different setups. Tell me if I'm missing something.

The rest I could not catch the D cycle screen on time, but the Charge Capacities were close so all 11 good cells are ready to go.

Please let me know what other things I could have learned, thanks in advance.


----------



## gyzmo2002

chemEJoe said:


> The rest I could not catch the D cycle screen on time, but the Charge Capacities were close so all 11 good cells are ready to go.



Check post 1765.

At the end of the second charge on a refresh C>D>C you have the discharge capacity on the lcd with fw:1.02.

If you have iOS application, you have the charge capacity at the end.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/389732

Post 273


----------



## gyzmo2002

chemEJoe said:


> Hi gyzmo - I am now having grinding fan noises. It was continuous and I had to abort a run. Then I set the fan to ON, and it just grinds away. I tapped it and it seems to be quieter.
> 
> Did yours continue? I have not modded anything, nor have I opened the unit. Just seeing where this thread went, and what the conclusion was before I contact GB. I have the fan blowing downward to the tabletop.



Yes the noise is still there. I did not open the charger to check it. I am waiting this set of 5 fans before open it in case of the original need to be changed. 

http://s.aliexpress.com/2mM3yMFf
5pcs lot GDT 12V 2Pin 3007 30*30*7mm 30mm DC Cooler Motor Cooling Micro Processor Fan


----------



## chemEJoe

gyzmo2002 said:


> Check post 1765.
> 
> At the end of the second charge on a refresh C>D>C you have the discharge capacity on the lcd with fw:1.02.
> 
> If you have iOS application, you have the charge capacity at the end.
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/389732
> 
> Post 273



Thanks, gyz ... I thought I read something like that. I'm using 2.8 Android and it matches the 1.02 screen (for Cycle, and I haven't used Refresh). I should have used Refresh - I was using cycle, so that I can just top up the charge using a Charge program, then go straight to D>C to save that first rest time (because I was also playing with different settings and restarting the cycles.) Now I know thank you. Guess it's all going to change when it's time to upgrade to 1.04.


----------



## chemEJoe

gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes the noise is still there. I did not open the charger to check it. I am waiting this set of 5 fans before open it in case of the original need to be changed.



Well, gyz, I was forced to open up the charger today because of that fan grinding noise that just won't go away. I thought well, I can ticket/talk with GB for a week and negotiate a new unit, but it's really something misaligned somewhere, so I took it apart.

It looks promising to fix, as the downward blowing fan should have had both clips engaged. On mine, it's crooked and only one side is engaged. So, the angle might be causing the fan blade to hit, so I think Kreisl's fan mod will fix all this. You may have the same manuf mistake, as they do use a lot of glue.

Since I have it apart, I will do the fan mod according to what Kreisl had posted earlier:

1. clean grease to stabilize the IR readings

2. will smooth out the edges of the Sliders just so it feels better to the touch (Kreisl, I will use my Dremel because the metal looks pretty hard, and I want to do the fan bracket chamfer with it too)

3. will look around for some thermal grease to add to the Slot thermocouples

4. reverse the fan of course, with the spacer as Kreisl advised to avoid fan rubbing

Anything else people remember needs doing?

===

So, does anyone know what the difference with PCB 1.4 vs 1.5 is? I have 1.4 - I ordered my MC just the same week of the switchover oh well. My version does not have a squirrel ... it's some kind of other character. I'd send a pic, but I'm not signed up to any vid or picture sharing sites.


----------



## kreisl

chemEJoe said:


> (Kreisl, I will use my Dremel because the metal looks pretty hard, and I want to do the fan bracket chamfer with it too)


Hi, using a file or a dremel for the chamfering is not a good idea. It is a cleaner job with a utility knife.
Difference between 1.4 and 1.5 is the addition of coils near the USB/Bluetooth output to pass FCC/CE certification. It's the only difference. These additional electronic parts may (or may not) even have adverse effects on the accuracy performance of the charger, all original specs were valid for the non-FCC/CE compliant production units like mine and yours, so don't wollie. 
I could get my hands dirty on a complimentary 1.5 i guess but oh please :tired: i don't care about the added certification.

While my PCB looked 99% clean, i had used a Q-tip with a drop of solvent/alcohol to make it 100% clean. Nothing else i remember doing. The most important part for us was the fan reversal. I edited my fan reversal guide a day ago, so have a re-check


----------



## gyzmo2002

I have just disassembled the charger. Can I fix this with a little screw? Or I am better to try epoxy glue? 




hebergeur dimage


----------



## millguy

gyzmo2002 said:


> I have just disassembled the charger. Can I fix this with a little screw? Or I am better to try epoxy glue?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hebergeur dimage



That happened on one of mine too. In a hurry to get it back together I hooked the end of the spring in the hole and its been fine for over a month.


----------



## gyzmo2002

I think I will try it. If I glue the plastic pole, I will have to disassemble it again. I don't want to play with this mess again.




hebergeur dimage


----------



## gyzmo2002

No more noisy fan. I cut the grill and reversed it. The max temp is 60 celsius 4x1A discharge in a 21celsius room. A good improvement. For the broken pole, I did what millguy told but I put the plastic pole in the hole to prevent it from moving. 











No squirrel on the board. V1.4. 2015-07-07. First batch charger. 

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]hebergement image[/FONT]

Télécharger des photos


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## billcushman

gyzmo2002 said:


> No more noisy fan. I cut the grill and reversed it. The max temp is 60 celsius 4x1A discharge in a 21celsius room. A good improvement. For the broken pole, I did what millguy told but I put the plastic pole in the hole to prevent it from moving.



Glad you got everything working again. *You certainly didn't deserve all the problems you experienced.* Hopefully your experience with the MC3000 will be pleasant from now on.


----------



## kreisl

i had mentioned it before but a photo helps:

during reassembly one needs to make sure that the tip of the spring lies in the slot of the slider. this seems obvious but in practice it's not, i know it, and the photo also proves it. it is THE ONLY reason why some slot produces a (faint) screechy sound. the spring itself cannot produce any sound and it also doesn't scratch against any other part. the only scratching part IS the tip of the spring, if it rides *on *the rail instead of *in *the slit.







yes, reassembly of the device is straight-forward but challenging to put into practice.


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## gyzmo2002

billcushman said:


> Glad you got everything working again. *You certainly didn't deserve all the problems you experienced.* Hopefully your experience with the MC3000 will be pleasant from now on.



Thank you. I was planning to just reverse the fan and cutting the grill but the first thing I saw, it's the broken plastic pin, even if I paid attention. It was probably cracked before I touched it. It is always the first that is the most difficult. Many things to enligner.( slides, springs, thermal probes...). 

Just reversing the fan and cutting the grill were fast and easy though. It is not dangerous to cut the grill. You can put your finger on it without any injury. I advise others to remove it. The fan clips perfectly between the 2 sliders. No glue and no rattles. 

I ordered 5 fans ($2.00 each) in case but for now, I don't have to change mine. I will have some spares....


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> i had mentioned it before but a photo helps:
> 
> during reassembly one needs to make sure that the tip of the spring lies in the slot of the slider. this seems obvious but in practice it's not, i know it, and the photo also proves it. it is THE ONLY reason why some slot produces a (faint) screechy sound. the spring itself cannot produce any sound and it also doesn't scratch against any other part. the only scratching part IS the tip of the spring, if it rides *on *the rail instead of *in *the slit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, reassembly of the device is straight-forward but challenging to put into practice.



Yes a good advice. I paid attention to it before the final assembly.


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## gyzmo2002

The plastic pins I was talking about. I tried "crazy glue" brand but that has not held. Epoxy will be probably better but I did not have at home. The "hole spring trick" with the plastic pin to prevent it from moving seems to work well. 

I must admit that I thought to buy another charger during reassembly.  




hebergement d image


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## MarioJP

gyzmo2002 said:


> No more noisy fan. I cut the grill and reversed it. The max temp is 60 celsius 4x1A discharge in a 21celsius room. A good improvement. For the broken pole, I did what millguy told but I put the plastic pole in the hole to prevent it from moving.



I do not wish to take apart of my charger over a fan issue. but, 60c that sounds like a big improvement.


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## gyzmo2002

MarioJP said:


> I do not wish to take apart of my charger over a fan issue. but, 60c that sounds like a big improvement.



I thought the same thing but the noise it made when it started waking me up at night. If it would have been quiet, I would have left like that.

If you decide to do just the fan, don't lift or move the board and keep the sliders in place. 

The fan and grill are easy to do. Don't bother with washers to lift the fan, just cut the grill. The fan will keep its place between the 2 plastics retainers as it was before.


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## gyzmo2002

That's the first thing I saw when I lifted the buttom cover. The fan's wire is not very long and the connector is glued so I probably lifted a bit the board and that's what happened. After seing that, I decided to disassemble the rails and sliders to clean them. That was the "funny part".




Télécharger des photos




image a telecharger gratuitement


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## billcushman

gyzmo2002, did you ever determine the original source of the fan noise. Was adhesive applied so it interfered with the rotating blades. I'm sure your whole experience was NOT joyful, but maybe the future use will be.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> Hi, using a file or a dremel for the chamfering is not a good idea. It is a cleaner job with a utility knife.



Hi Kreisl,

You are 100% right. I did the fan mod yesterday, and that part is very delicate so I used the knife your way. As it was, my chamfer was a little much (no free play, but not tight as you noted) so I used household white glue to fill in the gaps and it's very snug. I hope Elmer's glue can hold up to 85C. I just didn't have rubber cement and didn't want to use superglue or epoxy.



kreisl said:


> Difference between 1.4 and 1.5 is the addition of coils near the USB/Bluetooth output to pass FCC/CE certification. It's the only difference. These additional electronic parts may (or may not) even have adverse effects on the accuracy performance of the charger, all original specs were valid for the non-FCC/CE compliant production units like mine and yours, so don't wollie.



Thank you for this information ... funny ... my unit has the CE label on the outside, so they must have just used up the last of their boards. I guess I could ask for a new one, but as you note, it's probably just a FCC wireless compliance thing and anyway, that Bluetooth has a very short range I cannot even get the signal over than 10ft away, or so.



kreisl said:


> While my PCB looked 99% clean, i had used a Q-tip with a drop of solvent/alcohol to make it 100% clean.



Thank you, I will do that ... I have maybe 20% left in a bottle of 100% isopropyl alcohol I bought to clean a water-logged PCB, so I get another use out of it before it all evaporates yay!!!

Where I am now is I cannot find my thermal paste, so I need to go get that. The fan reversal went v smoothly 

(your post #2323
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...=4841654&highlight=fan%2C+reverse#post4841654).

I haven't put it all back together yet. I can attest you are right so far and I learned that in doing it. The only thing I would add is the spacer you suggested ... I just cut 4 small 3-4mm bits of thick rubber bands and Elmer glued them into the corners of the fan housing. Nice for noise reduction. We'll see how it works.

So to your points:

1. Knife to chamfer, for fine control
2. have some glue handy in case you want a nice firm mounting (Kreisl did not need this because he had a tight chamfered fit).
3. take pics of the spring assembly before you undo, as that will be tricky to reassemble
4. yes yes, clean the grease, it is indeed in the circuit for IR readings.

Thanks so far. I will not have time to finish today but this can help other first version(+) hardware. Saves a round-trip to China, all those cust svc 'tickets' and the unit could be better for it as you know better than me. For me I had to do it because that fan just started grinding 100% of the time as it got tilted with heat/cool cycles even in the downward state (2nd side of clip was not engaged. That might help you, gyz if you are reading).


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## chemEJoe

billcushman said:


> gyzmo2002, did you ever determine the original source of the fan noise. Was adhesive applied so it interfered with the rotating blades. I'm sure your whole experience was NOT joyful, but maybe the future use will be.



Bill, 
Mine went into 100% fan grind mode after maybe 100 hrs of use characterizing batteries (with discharge cycles). The cause seems to be only one clip was locked down, so even with glue, it slanted from the heat/cool cycles and the vibration in use, so it just kept slanting more I guess until one side was possibly rubbing the grill. 

I will not have my unit back together until I get thermal paste later, so if I don't post anymore, assume that was true and the reversal per Kreisl's mod, mostly, worked out fine.


----------



## gyzmo2002

billcushman said:


> gyzmo2002, did you ever determine the original source of the fan noise. Was adhesive applied so it interfered with the rotating blades. I'm sure your whole experience was NOT joyful, but maybe the future use will be.



No, I did not see something was wrong. The fan was clipped well, glued well and horizontal well. no friction's trace on the wire passing thereunder nor the grill. I think when it was starting, there was something that vibrated around a little and that was causing the noise. Weird because the noise lasted only about 20-25 sec after starting.


----------



## chemEJoe

gyzmo2002 said:


> No more noisy fan. I cut the grill and reversed it. The max temp is 60 celsius 4x1A discharge in a 21celsius room. A good improvement. For the broken pole, I did what millguy told but I put the plastic pole in the hole to prevent it from moving.



Congrats on a great fix and thanks for the pictures ... I have the same pcb 1.4 so it looks like we are both there. The hole mount for the spring is a good choice. Epoxy on the broken pole would have been weak over time ... it's a case of drilling a v small hole, using a cut pin as reinforcement to both sides of the plastic pole, and then epoxy. I've had to fix kid's toys like that for it to work long term, so the solution suggested by the other poster is good.

I don't plan to cut my grill, so I'll let y'all know how it performs. I used cut rubber bands as spacers to raise the fan, and chamfered the mount edge to let the clips keep doing their job, as Kreisl suggested.


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## gyzmo2002

chemEJoe said:


> That might help you, gyz if you are reading).



The job is already done. I did it last night. Everything is working great now. Take a look at my posts above. Good luck. [emoji6]


----------



## gyzmo2002

chemEJoe said:


> Congrats on a great fix and thanks for the pictures ...



We follow us,except that for me it is longer to write in english so some posts could be made before I finish mine. Time goes on...


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## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> That's the first thing I saw when I lifted the buttom cover.


so the broken pin was there already? must have been a hasty assembly worker in the production line 
feel free to ask for a replacement case from your dealer or the manufacturer. i know that the manufacturer does not offer end customer service but you could try to ask anyway. i would support your case np


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## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> so the broken pin was there already? must have been a hasty assembly worker in the production line
> feel free to ask for a replacement case from your dealer or the manufacturer. i know that the manufacturer does not offer end customer service but you could try to ask anyway. i would support your case np



Thank you kreisl for your help. I have received a mail from SkyRC. They offer to send the replacement case for free. They were not oblige to do that. 

Since I fixed it, I don't want to dissasemble it again. If I change the case, I will have to remove some other pieces like the display. If I do, I could cause other issues. Now everything is working well, it's better to keep it like that.

If I were not able to fix it, I would have change it. 

Thanks again. [emoji6]


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## gyzmo2002

Deleted


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## gyzmo2002

Deleted


----------



## dssguy1

gyzmo2002 said:


> No more noisy fan. I cut the grill and reversed it. The max temp is 60 celsius 4x1A discharge in a 21celsius room. A good improvement. For the broken pole, I did what millguy told but I put the plastic pole in the hole to prevent it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No squirrel on the board. V1.4. 2015-07-07. First batch charger.



Weird, somebody else cut the grill out and gets much lower system temp.... Almost like what I have been saying for a month (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/4837203 is true...

Regardless of what other misinformation might be spread by those who haven't removed the grill and how it won't help or isn't restrictive. 

I guess the tide is turning the "grill" front!

Welcome to the club gyzmo. Death to grills!!!


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## gyzmo2002

dssguy1 said:


> Weird, somebody else cut the grill out and gets much lower system temp.... Almost like what I have been saying for a month is true...
> 
> Regardless of what other misinformation might be spread by those who didn't remove the grill. And how it won't help or isn't restrictive, guess the tide is turning on the "no grill" front!
> 
> Welcome to the club gyzmo.



I have followed your posts and when I opened the charger today, I searched for your pictures but did not found them. Did you have deleted them?

I expected a temperature around 70 but to my surprise, I have not exceeded 60 celsius today in a room at 21 celsius. So what you said is true. And I see no risk of injury by putting your fingers on or "in" (if you have tiny fingers lol) the fan. The fan stops as soon as you touch it. A lot of heat goes out of the upper vent. When I will buy a new charger, I will remove it without hesitation.


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> This is surely that caused the vibration noise.


hmm 

never mind where the noise came from, it doesn't matter for the case

you got broken pin and this calls for remedy

cypm i am hooking you up :tinfoil:


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## gyzmo2002

Deleted


----------



## Minimoog

Mine had two of those black pins cracked. One was just a bit cracked, the other all the way through.


----------



## tjh

I must say I am so impressed with the hints and tips you guys are giving each other. *gyzmo2002* I'm really glad to read you're getting a helping hand from *kreisl* as well, nice one kreisl.

I'm such a nervous nancy when it comes to these things, there's no way I'm opening my charger. TEAM FAN BLOWS DOWN FOREVER. Basically I don't have the confidence to open it up and not break it. I'm discharging my 4 new 18650's at 0.45amps to keep the temp cool (systemp currently 61c, it's currently ~30c here in Napier)

Looking forward to fw 1.04, do we have an ETA yet?


----------



## gyzmo2002

A video showing that the temperature does not exceed 60 Celsius with the grill removed. If there are some who doubt. I'd be one of them. My room temp is 23 celsius. 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hnd37e20kpoqa97/Vidéo 16-03-06 22 11 02.mov?dl=0


For the ones who think there are some risk of injuries after removing the grill:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1it01h2ma95y47u/Vidéo 16-03-06 22 59 47.mov?dl=0


All the pictures I have taken today. If they could help.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2u8oypsxz8il3ud/AABGWCj8WGJzxsKxpQtK5oIEa?dl=0


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## chemEJoe

gyzmo2002 said:


> A video showing that the temperature does not exceed 60 Celsius with the grill removed. ...



Very nice - I finished everything just now and the fan sounds very nice.

It was hard to get all the springs, rails, and sliders back but so far so good. 

Further tips to modsters - for when you put the rails, sliders back:

1. add thermocouple paste into the thermocouple holes next to the sliders.

2. then review the picture above by kreisl on how to position the spring it's the best way to get all the sliders, rails, and springs in place. It's v easy. Just put the 4 sliders in, lay the rails on top (with wires on the same side as the solder source, not crossed across the gap), then insert the spring according to Kreisl's pic above. Then pull the spring end over the post. Tape it down with masking tape while you do the others if you need. 

3. When you are ready to put it all together, gently pull off any masking tape. Snap it in place and screw the top cover on.

Thanks everyone ... gyz for the pics, kreisl for the posts on how-to, 

dssguy1 ... I might do the grill cut. I wanna see how the T goes. I must say, the fan sounds really good for the first time. Maybe my fan was always a little compressed or something, having been installed at an angle.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Happy that everything is also fix on your side. No more noise🙂


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

After dismantling a MC3000 I replaced the thicker silicone grease with a lighter greasy lubricant from my toolbox. Lubriplate DS-ES p/n L0137-086, it's a lithium based grease that uses mineral oil and is designed for electrical switches, contacts, plug connectors, slide mechanisms, etc. Lithium has conductivity, but not a great as gold, copper and silver (silver having the highest conductivity)

Putting everything back together the first time may take some time and patience because of how everything is designed to fit together. After experimenting, creating a few procedures and positioning of parts, I was able to fit everything together using a small flat head screwdriver.

You need to be careful of the temperature sensors that can become easily bent out of their upright position. When the case and PCB is fit together the sensors need to fit within small rectangular holes that are part of the case.


----------



## kreisl

chemEJoe said:


> It was hard to get all the springs, rails, and sliders back but so far so good.
> (…)
> Maybe my fan was always a little compressed or something, having been installed at an angle.


Congrats to the work! Hehe you guys figured it out how to reassemble the parts. In theory it is clear/logical, in practice not so easy without tweezers or flat-head screwdriver. Yes a minimally deformed fan frame would lead to noise, eventually.

ETA on the new dex software? It's been out since today, here the log of changes:


new in DEX 3.2.5 said:


> 1) *SkyRC MC3000 *
> - fix gatherer timing problem
> - set activation wait timer 60 minutes
> - add start stop message
> - fix pause reduction in combi record set
> 2) *eStation BC6 *
> - fix missing Balance while loading data from file
> 3) adapt font used by MAC OS X 10.11
> 4) update windows NSIS installer
> 5) update Copyright including 2016
> 6) add *Weatronic-Telemetry* support
> 7) add *iMax B6* support
> 8) *HoTTAdpter**
> - fix setting filter properties
> 9) *FutabaTelemetry*
> - correct error message
> - add plausibility check to altitude data to better succeed while KMZ export
> 10) *OpenTxTelemetry *
> - correct error message
> 11) fix - runtime error in GraphicsComposite in focus lost listener
> 12) fix - keep record formatting while cut edge (add missing copy fields in copy constructor)
> 13) fix - CSV export remove blank character after time column
> 14) update OSD file version to support huge number of measurements
> - enhance scaling for large values
> - enhance OSD reader/writer for large number of measurements
> - enhance set measurement to add new if above of existing
> - enhance IDevice interface to support device which creates measurement dynamically
> - enhance scale naming while synchronized names
> - enhance record coloring if color not available in template
> - enhance store statistics, actually not restored
> - enhance restore statistics configuration for devices declaring "statistics" in getUsedPropertyKeys()



Please find the download link on google, good luck!


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## gyzmo2002

Deleted


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> Congrats to the work! Hehe you guys figured it out how to reassemble the parts. In theory it is clear/logical, in practice not so easy without tweezers or flat-head screwdriver. Yes a minimally deformed fan frame would lead to noise, eventually



Thanks you for yours and gyz's explanations. They really helped.

Now I'm onto NiMH testing, and maybe after FW 1.04 comes out, I'll do that and then start using Dex or the PC link sw.

(one final note, I may have to take this apart and clean it in a month, because I got too much thermocouple paste in the Slots. Not sure if this is non-conductive (it's 50% Si based). It may leak down and puddle I'm thinking. So, one more cleanup. That may be why there is so little paste on this wires. Maybe there is a way to take out the metal temperature contacts and put more paste from the top that is cleaner).


----------



## kreisl

chemEJoe said:


> and maybe after FW 1.04 comes out, I'll do that and then start using Dex or the PC link sw


you should gather as much experience with pcls as possible before you dare to go through with the fw updating procedure. working with pcls for hours will give you an idea if the USB communication on your charger-computer system works flawlessly, that is with _your _cable and _your _Windows software/USB drivers and _your _peripheral hardware. All 3 factors do affect the reliability of the USB communication between mc3k and sky WinPC software. For example, if you're in the middle of the fw updating procedure (which takes ~45sec or whatnot) and you turn on your USB printer, then this might/will wreck the fw updating procedure and you're ending up with a bricked charger.

Updating firmware is a critical, sensitive, and vulnerable process. So doing something else with the WinPC during that ~45sec is a no-go.

And only your experience with working with pcls can tell you if _your _cable and _your _Windows software/USB drivers form a reliable charger-computer communication system.

Some people get pcls under Win10 to work, some people get dex under Win10 to work (x86? x64?), and other people don't get pcls nor dex to work well under Win7/8/10. In many cases the problem is the quality of the cable/connectors. In other cases its a USB driver problem (unclean WinOS). So, working with pcls for hours will give the user an idea how critical the firmware updating procedure (in which form whatever) could become.

ETA on the fw 1.04? Soon. Dis month no doubt.


----------



## bosko90

Today I saw in old version DEX when I was charging battery on 1st slot. On tabele shows charging current 800A (actualy 0,8A) and temperature 302°C (actually 30,2°C)


----------



## darkell

guys, I am reading this thread.. for dozen of pages describing how we can mod our brand new chargers to allow proper cooling for discharging. 
I must say, this is not something I would have expected for a final product that I paid for. As much as I like the charger I do not like the fact that it is now superseded with a hardware refresh addressing an issue that should not be there in a first place and it is my problem to deal with the design issue and having to reverse the fan risking voiding my warranty. 
I would rather see SkyRC recalling the faulty units and have them repaired, is this too much to ask???


----------



## kreisl

darkell said:


> guys, I am reading this thread.. for dozen of pages describing how we can mod our brand new chargers to allow proper cooling for discharging.
> I must say, this is not something I would have expected for a final product that I paid for. As much as I like the charger I do not like the fact that it is now superseded with a hardware refresh addressing an issue that should not be there in a first place and it is my problem to deal with the design issue and having to reverse the fan risking voiding my warranty.
> I would rather see SkyRC recalling the faulty units and have them repaired, is this too much to ask???



your charger is not a faulty unit.


----------



## darkell

kreisl said:


> your charger is not a faulty unit.



it appears that it is unfortunately, it cannot discharge simultaneously 4x LiIon at 1A, as according to the specs.. so in my understanding it is a faulty unit.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Deleted


----------



## chemEJoe

darkell said:


> guys, ... I would rather see SkyRC recalling the faulty units and have them repaired, is this too much to ask???



The charger is good ... it's not as easy as say buying a Nitecore D4 or XTAR VC4, but then again, you get into the battery and firmware options, and you can do so much more. And you get full amps into all 4 slots, instead of half amps if you use >2 slots (with those other 2 units). 

So the tradeoff is ... do you want a system that intends to let users who want to know and control more in managing the risks and maximizing the potential from these batteries? I do even if all I'm doing is limiting myself to bike lights (I don't vape, I don't happen to need a flashlight often, etc.). I've probably thrown away hundreds of dollars of seemingly bad rechargeables that probably just needed some analysis and refresh.

More:
1. the fan mod: it is doable and saves a return cycle on the product.

2. the 1.4 v 1.5 board ... manufs upgrade boards all the time and do not let consumers know. I know what I don't have according to Kreisl, and it's fine by me. Bad luck on me I ordered right at the changeover. I 'shoulda coulda' ordered 1 week later.

3. I get that the fw and PCLS / Dex sw are being upgraded. Thank God for that - do you know any other consumer hardware that lets you upgrade? Yep, home routers. I have a Netgear that I upgraded FW on, and now it cannot accept new devices. So, I have to by a new router. No forums to tell me why.

So all in all, it's worth the $100. If you have the first version, maybe all you have to do is the fan mod, clean up the PCB with isopropyl alchohol, maybe add some more thermal paste to the slot thermocouples, and you may be as current as those units shipping now.


----------



## chemEJoe

darkell said:


> it appears that it is unfortunately, it cannot discharge simultaneously 4x LiIon at 1A, as according to the specs.. so in my understanding it is a faulty unit.



Technically, it can do that if systemp can be cool. The other consumer units cannot, as if you use 4 slots, it halves the current. Just do the fan mod and you will be in business. The new units are the same fan, just reversed, according to a picture posted many pages back. 

If you DYI, you can make sure the fan is mounted the way you like it. If you count on the manuf reversal, you may find it's not mounted the way you'd like it as it was not designed that way. I doubt if the manuf will re-tool just for this ... They are just being expedient, so lucky for us we can with this forum know what is best so each user can make their unit to their liking. It's a 'hobby' charger  and we love our hobbies.


----------



## kreisl

darkell said:


> it appears that it is unfortunately, it cannot discharge simultaneously 4x LiIon at 1A, as according to the specs.. so in my understanding it is a faulty unit.



:tinfoil:


----------



## Meyer

darkell said:


> it appears that it is unfortunately, it cannot discharge simultaneously 4x LiIon at 1A, as according to the specs.. so in my understanding it is a faulty unit.



Specifications, as written in MC3000 Instructions Manual V1.0: *max. Discharge power |-15W| *


4 * 4.2 V * 1 A = 16.2 W, 1.2 W above specs.


----------



## Albert_

darkell said:


> it appears that it is unfortunately, it cannot discharge simultaneously 4x LiIon at 1A, as according to the specs.. so in my understanding it is a faulty unit.



I'm able to discharge 4 x 18650's at 1 amp each and the MC3000 is within it's system temperature specifications at 83 C. Does your charger system temperature go over 85 C? 

Charger temperature specifications:

Battery Temperature: 20°C ~ 70°C safety cut-off (+ safety net) 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Internal Temperature: 85°C safety net 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Operating Temperature: 0°C ~ 40°C ventilated room 

other specifcations:

Input Power DC 11V ~ 18V / 60W PSU adapter output specs 

Circuit Power 
max. Charge power 50W |x|=x, for x>0 
* max. Discharge power |-15W| |x|=-x, for x<0 
Operating Voltage Range: 0.2V ~ 5.0V/slot | max. admissible voltage 5.0V! 
Battery Capacity: 100mAh ~ 50,000mAh | safety cut-off


----------



## Albert_

If you want to run a little cooler than system specifications you can cut 4 of plastic vents leaving the two to hold the plastic circular middle piece. Or cut out the entire vent leaving it open.

Leave red and cut green or cut both red and green.

I have not done this mod and my system temperature is within the chargers system temperature specification when discharging 4 x 18650's at 1 amp each. Factory fan (without any mods) is blowing upwards.


----------



## tjh

Albert_ said:


> If you want to run a little cooler than system specifications you can cut 4 of plastic vents leaving the two to hold the plastic circular middle piece. Or cut out the entire vent leaving it open.
> 
> Leave red and cut green:


Will this help for wuss-bags like me who don't want to open up the charger? Do you think it'll make a difference when the fan is still blowing down (AS GOD INTENDED!) ?

Tim


----------



## Albert_

More effective cooling, air flows from the outside to the inside in an upward direction. If yours is blowing down and out. It's an easy enough mod, just flip over the cooling fan so air flows in an upward direction.

Heat (BTU's) naturally flows in a upward direction against gravity, when there is no fan running. The upwards fan helps to move heat in a natural direction.

Secondly, the heat sink located in the upper region of the case produces the majority of the heat inside the case. If the fan pulls this heat down in an unnatural direction other hardware, the PCB, batteries, etc collect and absorb additional heat from the heat sink as the fan tries to pull the remaining heat from the case expelling it towards the ground in an unnatural direction because the heat is trying to go upwards and not downwards. Also the heat is already in the upper portion of the case closer to the upper top vent.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

I post this question, not with the intent of being dismissive of people's needs, but more as a curious question. Why would you need to discharge 4 cells @ 1Amp each? How often does that need arise of those who are angered by the heating issues with this feature?

I may cycle a cell here or there as a capacity test but I just don't see the scenario arising for me where I'd be pushing this charger to the limits like that.

I am loving this charger for all of it charging features, programming options and flexibility. I'd rather not rip it open if I didn't need to.


----------



## chemEJoe

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> I post this question, not with the intent of being dismissive of people's needs, but more as a curious question. Why would you need to discharge 4 cells @ 1Amp each? How often does that need arise of those who are angered by the heating issues with this feature?
> 
> I may cycle a cell here or there as a capacity test but I just don't see the scenario arising for me where I'd be pushing this charger to the limits like that.
> 
> I am loving this charger for all of it charging features, programming options and flexibility. I'd rather not rip it open if I didn't need to.



For me, it is how long it takes to characterize the capacity of a battery. The higher one can go in current, it can save a lot of time. 

Also, as Albert shows in the picture, why go against physics? It's just not smart if you can take 1-2 hrs and solve it. I bet now if I put a laptop cooler below, this thing will be a fridge 

So to me, if I love this charger, I want it to have a better life. Like adding something nice to your favorite car.

PS - I bow to your 3800 posts ... just a newbie who once knew heat exchangers very well lol.


----------



## chemEJoe

tjh said:


> Will this help for wuss-bags like me who don't want to open up the charger? Do you think it'll make a difference when the fan is still blowing down (AS GOD INTENDED!) ? Tim



Tim, it's not hard. You just have to think your way through the springs, sliders, rails puzzle. It's a little fun, much easier thana Rubik's cube. I've left the grill. I will cut it later if I need, as you can do that from outside anytime.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> you should gather as much experience with pcls as possible before you dare to go through with the fw updating procedure. ... ETA on the fw 1.04? Soon. Dis month no doubt.



Roger wilco ... I trust ya now heh heh.

I have an old XP and I will use that. It will be very fun, a real man-cave. PC, Charger, Batteries to characterize. Just something to do to relax while I do my work.


----------



## Joe Kidd

Albert_ said:


> More effective cooling, air flows from the outside to the inside in an upward direction. If yours is blowing down and out. It's an easy enough mod, just flip over the cooling fan so air flows in an upward direction.
> 
> Heat (BTU's) naturally flows in a upward direction against gravity, when there is no fan running. The upwards fan helps to move heat in a natural direction.
> 
> Secondly, the heat sink located in the upper region of the case produces the majority of the heat inside the case. If the fan pulls this heat down in an unnatural direction other hardware, the PCB, batteries, etc collect and absorb additional heat from the heat sink as the fan tries to pull the remaining heat from the case expelling it towards the ground in an unnatural direction because the heat is trying to go upwards and not downwards. Also the heat is already in the upper portion of the case closer to the upper top vent.



One great post in this series. 
I predict 5000+ posts soon!


----------



## LiteTheWay

This is how I see it too. Maybe in six months when version 3 (or 4) of this wonderful charger comes out, I will get another one by which time they will have fixed all of the 'bugs' (which aren't really bugs).

Until maybe then - I am more than happy and only use my charger in situations which are not even close to the limits.

But good luck to those who like to fiddle for the 'perfect' machine.





ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> I post this question, not with the intent of being dismissive of people's needs, but more as a curious question. Why would you need to discharge 4 cells @ 1Amp each? How often does that need arise of those who are angered by the heating issues with this feature?
> 
> I may cycle a cell here or there as a capacity test but I just don't see the scenario arising for me where I'd be pushing this charger to the limits like that.
> 
> I am loving this charger for all of it charging features, programming options and flexibility. I'd rather not rip it open if I didn't need to.


----------



## bosko90

Now I test a new version DEX. Table is the same as to previous versions. I think that there is not a lot of work to correct it. Mainly, I know what the numbers are but it would be okay if they were correct units.




[/IMG]


----------



## kreisl

Albert_ said:


> On my pc it's two seconds off, tested several times using two different brand new USB cables. Apparently there's a usb bottleneck or overhead somewhere. Possibly there's a problem with my Vista USB universal drivers that are designed for many different types of usb devices. Could be something with the USB Hub controller and drivers. PC Bios, etc.
> 
> I would need to change or modify something and the PCLS record the cut-off time to figure out why it's two seconds off.
> 
> 3 min test
> 
> 0:02:52 4.108 0.5 23 77.3
> 0:02:53 4.108 0.5 23 77.3
> 0:02:54 4.108 0.5 23 77.3
> 0:02:55 4.107 0.5 23 77.3
> 0:02:56 4.107 0.5 24 77.3
> 0:02:57 4.107 0.5 24 77.3
> 0:02:58 4.107 0.5 24 77.3 (last long entry)



I am doing some basic hence important tests with dex, timing and such. My observations so far (with this version of dex):

dex 3.2.5 internal clocking is near perfect now in the sense that logged time intervals (=time differences) are _pretty_ exact, for example the dex log shows 00:02:52 … 00:12:52, meaning a 10min time difference 'on paper', and indeed, timed with a chronometer, the chronometer shows a 10min time difference for this logging period. this property sounds trivial but it was not, users of dex 3.2.4 could tell. 
the mc3k lcd clocker, which is the reference timer!, has a start delay because of the Batt IR measurement ("Processing...."). Starting 4 slots together will result in a start delay of *2.5-3.5s*, starting just 1 slot results in ~0.5-1.0s start delay. Only after the "Processing...." period does the lcd clocker start its timer in SOV, which is correct behavior. That needs to be taken into account, if you try to time the lcd clocker with a chronograph/stopwatch. it requires some practice to make the stopwatch show the exact same elapsed time as displayed by the lcd clocker, i.e. to make both timers run synchronously. basically: first hit the ENTER-button on mc3k, then wait ~2sec, then hit START on your stopwatch. Then check if they run synchronously. Good to know, you don't need to do this, because lcd clocker is _fairly _exact and does run identically to any other independent digital watch like Casio G-Shock, Timex, Swatch, etc. this property sounds trivial but it is not, users of Liittookaallaa Lii-500 could tell. 
the dex 3.2.5 logging of time stamp [yyyy-mm-dd HH:mm:ss.SSS] is NOT a "copy" of actual WinPC clock time. For example, when Big Ben hits 03:00:00p.m. and you hit the "start gathering"-button, wait 10sec and check the live dex log ("Table"-tab): you'll see that the dex log is ~*0.5-1.5sec *shifted ahead of Big Ben. It also means that in general the _start _of the clocking differs between lcd, dex log, and Big Ben, since the effects of 2. and 3. sum up: When Big Ben hits 3p.m., hit the "start gathering"-button, and compare all three times < _lcd, big ben, dex_ > and you would observe something like this:_ lcd + 3.0s = big ben = dex - 1.0s_ 
it is instructive to (try to) get all three times to run synchronously (Question: "a clocking race, do both dex and lcd follow big ben exactly, even after 10, 20, 30 hours?". Answer: "no, they are not Swiss Premium Quartz watches, so all three slowly drift away, with the big ben staying exact, of course!"). How? Example: Let's assume that we want to see a "2016-03-08 22:00:00.xxx" as very first row/entry in the live dex log ("Table"-tab). For this to happen one needs to hit the ENTER-button (of mc3k device) when Big Ben shows 09:59:57.5p.m., and hit the "start gathering"-button (in dex software) when Big Ben shows 02:59:59.0p.m.. Then, when Big Ben shows 10:00:00p.m., the lcd shows Time: 00:00:00, and the dex log shows 2016-03-08 22:00:00.xxx, and from then on all three show the same progress of time. Compare the three runners after 10, 20, 30 hours and you'll notice …etc…  

I'll share my observations about the Finish times when my long Refresh program has finished.


----------



## Albert_

I just started using Data Explorer and PCLS. Currently don't have any reason to time any of the MC3000's functions. I posted some results to help the user with a time log problem. 

A time log is a good place to start to obtain a better understanding of MC3000, PCLS and the DataExplorer.

I see it's possible to change the logging output by editing the "time base and step width" from it's default setting of 1000 ms.

Here's an example output when set to 100 ms.


MC3000 Slot 1 Time [hh:mm:ss.SSS] Voltage [V] Current [A] Capacity [mAh] Power [W] Energy [Wh] BatteryTemperature [øC] BatteryRi [m?]  00:00.000 3.257 -0.499 0 1.63 0 68.5 125  00:00.100 3.252 -0.469 0 1.53 0 68.5 125  00:00.200 3.249 -0.5 1 1.62 0.003 68.5 125  00:00.300 3.249 -0.5 1 1.62 0.003 68.5 125  00:00.400 3.247 -0.5 1 1.62 0.003 68.5 125  00:00.500 3.245 -0.5 1 1.62 0.003 68.5 125  00:00.600 3.243 -0.5 1 1.62 0.003 68.5 125  00:00.700 3.241 -0.5 1 1.62 0.003 68.5 125  00:00.800 3.239 -0.5 1 1.62 0.003 68.5 125  00:00.900 3.238 -0.5 2 1.62 0.006 68.5 125  00:01.000 3.236 -0.5 2 1.62 0.006 68.5 125  00:01.100 3.234 -0.5 2 1.62 0.006 68.5 125  00:01.200 3.232 -0.5 2 1.62 0.006 68.5 125  00:01.300 3.231 -0.5 2 1.62 0.006 68.5 125  00:01.400 3.229 -0.5 2 1.61 0.006 68.5 125  00:01.500 3.227 -0.5 2 1.61 0.006 68.5 125  00:01.600 3.226 -0.5 3 1.61 0.01 68.5 125  00:01.700 3.224 -0.5 3 1.61 0.01 68.5 125  00:01.800 3.222 -0.5 3 1.61 0.01 68.5 125  00:01.900 3.221 -0.5 3 1.61 0.01 68.5 125  00:02.000 3.219 -0.5 3 1.61 0.01 68.5 125  00:02.100 3.218 -0.5 3 1.61 0.01 68.5 125
 

The latest 3.2.5 Windows version runs much better under Vista then the previous 3.2.4 version. However 3.2.5 runs a bit slower under Vista then the previous Linux 3.2.4 version under Ubuntu 64-Bit. I think perhaps Vista having more system requirements than Linux/Ubuntu, the Linux Data Explorer has an advantage when run from older PC's.


----------



## dssguy1

chemEJoe said:


> For me, it is how long it takes to characterize the capacity of a battery. The higher one can go in current, it can save a lot of time.
> 
> Also, as Albert shows in the picture, why go against physics? It's just not smart if you can take 1-2 hrs and solve it. I bet now if I put a laptop cooler below, this thing will be a fridge
> 
> So to me, if I love this charger, I want it to have a better life. Like adding something nice to your favorite car.
> 
> PS - I bow to your 3800 posts ... just a newbie who once knew heat exchangers very well lol.



1-2 hours!! Try 5-10 minutes, max.


----------



## chemEJoe

dssguy1 said:


> 1-2 hours!! Try 5-10 minutes, max.



I really enjoy working with my hands, as that's what my dad taught me. These days, it's all about the computer and dealing with people issues. So, I really enjoyed myself and took about 1-2 hrs over 2 days. It's pretty hard to do in 10 minutes with all the choices you get to make.


----------



## kreisl

chemEJoe said:


> over 2 days.


om*g lol i cannot believe what i am observing here on my XP system. last night i synchronized my WinXP clock with that well-known Win-dialog function, using the "time.nist.gov" server from the drop-down menu. successful. And i was assuming that that clock would be 100% equal to big ben (or my smartphone). so i started my mc3k Refresh program at 22:00:00 o'clock (10p.m. sharp!). *I left my PC running over night.* Now, only 12 hours later, at 10a.m., i am seeing that my WinXP clock is off by almost 3minutes, ahead!, compared with my smartphone!!!  I can't believe it, because if this continued, it would mean that after 24 hours the WinXP clock would show 22:06 o'clock instead of big ben's 22:00 o'clock. Omg, how inexact is the WinXP clock? Or is it my PC hardware? LOL!!
So i did again the Win-dialog function and watched what happened: Indeed, the WinXP clock was automatically set back by 3mins, now again matching the clock on my smartphone. OM*G!

Wow, that was surprising. I am sure that none of you ever came up with the idea to clock/time/stop your WindowsPC clock running for 1-2 days straight with an external stopwatch/chronograph. I had always thought that my PC clock is nearly as exact like a Swatch or big ben!! By far not! 3min within 12 hours is insane! And hard to believe. And maybe you cannot reproduce this unbelievable result with your brand new Win10 system and brand new hardware. My hardware is from 2010 hh.

Usually at night, i turn off my WinPC completely. The next day, when i boot up the machine, i am guessing that the PC automatically synchronizes time with the time.nist.gov server, and that's how the time stays ~exact for the day being. But the longer the WinPC is running, 10, 24, 30hrs straight, without reboot, you'll see how off the PC clock gets compared to actual time like big ben.

Now the good news. The timestamp on dex log and the lcd timer do represent big ben timing. "The three" (dex, lcd, big ben) were synchronous at 10p.m. yesterday. Right now, the LiIon Refresh program is still running, taking a "snap shot" of the three timers gives:



snapshot said:


> pc (right now synchronized with time.nist.gov server): *10:35:00*
> dex: 2016-03-09 *10:35:02.xxx*
> lcd: TOTAL: *0†12:35:07*



So there you have it. Compared to big ben, the mc3k lcd clock runs 7sec faster every ~12hrs (big ben hours). And the time stamp in the dex log is still exact within 1-2sec (also faster!) after 12 big ben hours. After another 12 big ben hours, the dex log should be 3-4sec ahead, and the lcd clock 13-15sec ahead.

In summary, all three timers do slowly drift away from each other. The lcd clock is ~14sec off after 24 big ben hours. I'll accept it. The MSRP of a Swatch is 50,00€. We can't expect a Swiss watch to be ticking in the MC3000.

Apart from the hilarious WinXP clock performance, the other interesting point we're learning in this post is that DEX uses its own "independent" timer and which is more truthful to big ben than the lcd clock. Logically the dex log will look 5sec short (after 12 big ben hours, if Finished) compared with the lcd Finish time.

The next question would be: how does PCLS do the clocking? Does it copy over lcd time, pc time, or does it have its own timer like dex? From my impression, pcls time is very much a copy of lcd time, maybe ±1sec. The *.CSV-log is always few seconds short though, missing a few rows before Finish. That's why i had suggested to make use of C.RESTING and D.RESTING, when doing drop dead serious test runs ("C>", "D>"): If some last rows of the resting routine are missing in the CSV-log, then no prob.

All in all, we have five timers, don't we?



Big Ben / radio controlled clock 
WinPC clock 
dex log 
lcd timer 
pcls timer 

Summary:
In a perfect world, all 5 would be running synchronously and showing the exact same progress of time. In reality, even Swiss watches need to be re-synchronized after a few months. Among the 5 listed, the worse is the WinPC clock (on my system, at least!). Luckily, neither dex log nor pcls (nor the lcd timer) use the WinPC clock as basis/reference. The mc3k internal clock introduces an error of ~7sec (per 12 big ben hours). The dex log introduces less of such an error, but the dex log might look "incomplete", when you look at the logged time period; Excel gives you the chance though to re-calculate mAh and compare it with the logged mAh value. The truthful value would lie in between i guess. Also note that this post was about logging for straight 12-24 hours. That's when the effect of "diverging timers" begins to play a (minor) role. If you're logging a Discharge for 6 hours, i wouldn't care about a displayed mAh value being "3.5sec off the truth". 

1000mA*(3.5/3600)h = 0.97222222222mAh 

I think we're good here. DEX does a great job with the timing and logging. PCLS needs to be fixed with respect to the missing 3-10sec in the CSV-log. And i am accepting that MC3000 does not have a 50€ Swatch inside as clocker. :laughing:


----------



## Albert_

That's alot of good information about time clock differences, between hardware, firmware and software.

Windows has an Internet Time automatic update setting that can be enabled or disabled. My auto system time update was disabled. There's also a setting to manually update Windows time.

Windows time updates a Bios Real Time Clock (normally has it's own battery). I noticed this bios clock will sometime change by hours when loading another OS such a Linux.

I'm uncertain of the update frequency for Windows time, it may be every 24 hours? PC Bios time I don't think is all that reliable. There are many software programs and services that will run in the background to keep the OS and PC Bios time updated. 

Here's a Windows time program I've used since it's initial development. 

Nistime ... can be downloaded from: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/its.cfm

Then others such as https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp.htm

https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/sw/ntp-server-monitor.htm


----------



## billcushman

Almost no one still uses Vista. XP is still fairly popular. The following chart is for desktops only. This may be helpful to SkyRC if they don't know it already.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0


----------



## Minimoog

I have got my machine open and have done the following:

Reversed fan, removed four of the grille bars and also removed some material to allow fan to rotate freely.
Cleaned all the sliders off and ProGold-ed the metal parts
Deburred the sliders
Glued the two broken spring retaining pins (not sure how long the glue will hold though).

Before I re-assemble, is it worth doing anything else? Adding thermal paste to the battery sensors - if so, how? Is it worth cleaning the PCB?

It is a nicely assembled unit, however the snapped plastic pins are something to be aware of if you open the unit.


----------



## billcushman

Minimoog said:


> Cleaned all the sliders off and ProGold-ed the metal parts



Caig ProGold (now called DeoxiT Gold is a unique product. Costly but has no equal. They also have specialty greases. I have used Caig products since they were first recommended by Fluke in the 1970s. 

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.178/.f


----------



## Albert_

billcushman said:


> Almost no one still uses Vista. XP is still fairly popular. The following chart is for desktops only. This may be helpful to SkyRC if they don't know it already.
> 
> https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0



Your right Vista isn't really used much anymore when looking at user statistics. However there are a significant number of individual users plus business and institutions that haven't yet upgraded. Which would mean purchasing new licenses. If e.g. you have a thousand Vista licenses, plus older PC's, you have to ask yourself 1. does your business or institution need the new OS functions & features, many of which are related to multimedia 2. are your PC's and hardwares going to require an upgrade and/or replacement. 3. How often over a 5, 10, 20+ year timeline will your business or institution require different types of upgrades. 

Vista isn't known for it's speed and ease of use. It may not be as personable as other Version of Windows. However Vista does have a fairly good backward compatibility for hardwares, drivers and softwares. Doesn't require much maintenance, stays fairly stable over long periods of time. I also have XP PC's and licenses, and a Windows 8 upgrade license (which requires to run adequately, a hardware upgrade) but prefer Vista because it doesn't require a hardware upgrade and currently has MS software and security updates. 

Runs ok, not as quickly as XP on the same machine and has other feature not found with XP.

Note: Vista having been around a while, dates back near early XP development. One problem I've run into with an OEM Vista for Business on a laptop. The laptop was originally certified by the PC manufacture to run under Vista SP1, which it ran just fine. However after updating to SP2 the laptop started to run much slower, after Windows Update it ran even worse. The laptop has a touch screen plus all the notebook utils. Updating and upgrading has alot to do with how well the updates and upgrades work with your hardware. The older laptops (there are two of them) run just fine under Vista SP1 and XP with the latest SP updates. 

For DEX and PCLS monitoring, logging and control for a few dollars one could find an older used mini PC with USB port(s). Under Windows XP (or Mac OS X or Linux, for DEX only, unless there's an emulator that would work with PCLS), would not require alot of memory and cpu power. It could be made into a dedicated battery monitoring PC, with various utilities and programming related to battery charging and monitoring.

When the MC3000 is connected my PC the USB port is configured as USB 1.1 (Full Speed 1.5Mbps) and not USB 2.0. Even when connected to a USB port capable of USB 2.0, MC3000 as a USB device is installed as USB 1.1 (full speed).
_______

If no Android or iPhone and wanting to run the Bluetooth app I came across this device. A little larger than a mouse. (sold for as little as ~$30.00 on eBay.) Uses a Remix OS compatible with Android apps.

Jide Remix Mini Android PC 2GB RAM 16GB eMMC HDMI WiFi Bluetooth Remix OS

Processor: 1.2 GHz quad-core cortex A53 (64-Bit)
Storage 8GB or 16GB eMMC 
Memory: 1GB or 2GB 

Height: 1.0 inch (2.6 cm)
Length: 4.9 inch (12.4 cm)
Width: 3.5 inch (8.8 cm) 

Ports and Connections

Two USB 2.0 ports
HDMI port
Ethernet port - 10/100BASE-T
WiFi - 802.11 b/g/n WiFi wireless networking
Bluetooth 4.0 wireless
Line voltage 100-240V AC (50Hz to 60Hz single phase)
Max. continuous power 15 watts

There's also other Android mini PC devices such as Tronsmart MK908 Quad Core RK3188 CPU Android Mini.


----------



## kreisl

Albert_ said:


> Here's a Windows time program I've used since it's initial development.
> 
> Nistime ... can be downloaded from: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/its.cfm


Thanks, i like the NISTIME 32 tool. I'll be using the "wwv.nist.gov (Colorado)" server from now on. With it and using the same time server, it is very easy to see how quickly the WinXP time drifts away from the truth (big ben), crazy.

Lol again, now where i've used Nistime a few times ("Query Server -> Now"), i am seeing that dex log is as synchronous as the WinPC time yesterday at 10p.m.. So what i've said before about dex log ("within 1-2sec (also faster!) after 12 big ben hours") is NOT true. The truth is, discovered thanks to the NISTIME tool, that the dex log time is 100% exact, clocking time identically to NIST time server (or big ben or smartphone). Just now slot#2 has finished. Here are the details:

SOV reports "TOTAL: 0�†17:14:39", or 62079sec ("lcd seconds"). Okay.
the first row in (online) dex log says "2016-03-08 22:00:00.973"
the last row in (online) dex log says "2016-03-09 15:14:31.973"
the mathematical difference between these two timestamps is 17h14min31s, or 62071sec ("dex seconds", ="nist seconds", as we know by now!).
now we're exporting the table of slot#2 with "File>>Export>>CSV absolute" and open the CSV file with Excel.
no surprise, Excel row#3 states "2016-03-08 22:00:00.973"
and the very last Excel row is row#62074 and it states "2016-03-09 15:14:31.973", as seen online. no surprise.
so we have 62072 rows of data, representing 62071sec of mathematical time difference, which is 100.0% correct!!
in other words, the dex log is 100% complete, correct, and its logged time difference ("62071sec") is indeed NIST time difference (and not WinXP time difference or lcd time difference), there are no missing rows, no missing data, hooray!
now we have exact/concrete numbers: 62079 - 62071 = 8sec offset on a 17.25hr program run.

Is 8sec offset much?

it depends on the situation. Let's assume that i had a -2.00A discharge program running for 62071 nist seconds. That would equal 34483.888mAh capacity (=truthful value). MC3000 finishes the program thinking that 62079sec ("lcd seconds") had passed, so it calculates a capacity of (62079/3600)*2000 = 34488.333mAh. That's 4.444mAh higher than the truth. Is 4.444mAh offset much? in this example, certainly not. 4.444/34483.888 = 0.00012887 = 0.012887%. in words, with the 34488mAh given by the lcd, you're 0.012887% higher than the truth. MC3000 has overestimated the true capacity by 0.012887%. Totally acceptable imho.



kreisl said:


> All in all, we have five timers, don't we?
> 
> 
> 
> Big Ben / radio controlled clock
> WinPC clock
> dex log
> lcd timer
> pcls timer


Good news everyone, my above finding eliminates the WinPC clock from the discussion, puts the dex log en par with NIST time (thanks to Albert's NISTIME tool), and leaves us with three timers to consider:


Big Ben / radio controlled clock / smartphone / NISTIME 32 / dex log 
lcd timer 
pcls timer (= lcd timer - 1sec) 
Note: i am NOT saying that dex log time stamp is equal to NISTIME time stamp. no way! the _start delay_ is still there and one needs to hit the "start gathering"-button ~1s before the hour etc, as described in my previous post etc. but it is true now that the _progress _of time in the dex log equals 100% the progress of NISTIME, which is a great discovery ymmd.

Here the DEX screenshots with Continuous graphing enabled, see Preferences>>Miscellaneous:















Another advantage of dex: the log actually starts with "0.000A" in the very first row; pcls 1.01 log doesn't do that. And _if there was an extraordinary_ delay produced by the device or the USB communication, the dex log tries to catch up in the first few seconds by adhering to the NIST clocking. You can observe how the first few rows _may_ show 2sec-steps, that's where the logger had to skip 1sec of logging due to datenstau in the USB communication line. So .. always check the first few rows of the dex log! 

I've also investigated the properties of the pcls timer, which was less interesting for me to do. Try the following: Launch pcls. USB is ON, and the pcls Start-button says "Star". Don't press "Star". But press the ENTER-button on the charger to start all slots at the same time. Nothing happens on the pcls screen. Let the charger run for 1min. Then press the "Star"-button in pcls. You'll notice that pcls tries to start logging right away! And you'll also notice that the pcls timer shows "Time: 00:01:00". That's because pcls copies over the lcd timer! Now when you compare lcd timer and pcls timer: the pcls timer lags by almost 1sec. The two timers don't run 100% simultaneously/synchronously. And there will always be that kind of natural lag and it's not worth investigating it any further. The most important thing to learn from the pcls timer is that the pcls timer is indeed a copy of the lcd timer. That's what i conclude from my observations. And the pcls log may be short by the last few rows, as mentioned in other posts (=has to be a bug in pcls imo).

Btw one should not really run pcls and dex at the same time, even though in some limited instances it seems to work okay (1. launch dex, 2. hit the "start gathering"-button in dex, 3. dex is logging, 4. launch pcls, 5. no need to hit any further buttons, pcls is already logging!). There are instances though where simultaneous dex/pcls logging causes a mix-up of channels lol, for example when resting routines are involved and whatnot. And when the bluetooth app is active, one cannot run DEX.

No doubt that dex is superior to pcls. For now, dex can START ALL and STOP ALL slots, and do logging (based on NIST time scale), graphing, and exporting to CSV. We could wish more MC3000 control from within dex to be implemented in future.

In conclusion, from now, for serious stable logging i will use DEX more often than not. The mAh's logged in DEX are the ones reported by the charger. That's good. We can simply ignore the times reported by SOV but rely on the logged time in the dex log. With the dex logged time we could re-calculate a more accurate mAh value (with 10 decimals for example), or at least compare that value with the device-reported mAh's. What a nice exercise. But for quick non-ambitious logging and charger testing, pcls is still a very suitable tool!


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> om*g lol i cannot believe what i am observing here on my XP system. ... I think we're good here. DEX does a great job with the timing and logging. PCLS needs to be fixed with respect to the missing 3-10sec in the CSV-log. And i am accepting that MC3000 does not have a 50€ Swatch inside as clocker. :laughing:



Thanks! Yet again time spent thinking through these effects that is so helpful as new users get caught up!


----------



## chemEJoe

Minimoog said:


> Before I re-assemble, is it wrth doing anything else? Adding thermal paste to the battery sensors - if so, how? Is it worth cleaning the PCB?



If you still have it open, see if you can removed the metal contacts for the thermocouples into the slots and put the thermocouple grease there after reassembly instead of on the thermocouples or the thermocouple slots. I did the latter and made a mess. I think if you dab the contacts (semicircle metal) from their mounting point, then it will be very clean. Also, if those snap in from above, and not while the case is open, all the better as you can finish a clean install and add the thermocouple grease later. That's what I plan to do in about a month when I reopen to clean out my over-do ... give it time to settle. Mine is 50% Si, so it's probably not going to short anything.



Minimoog said:


> It is a nicely assembled unit, however the snapped plastic pins are something to be aware of if you open the unit.



The posts may be snapping because on first open, people aren't realizing that one cannot tilt the PCB first. One must pull the PCB up until it clears these 4 plastic spring retention holes, then the board can tilt away to get at the assembly. I got lucky in that I did pull up first, but not knowing how it was set up mechanically, I could have just as easily tilted the board. It's well designed, just have a few interrelationships in how things mount.

Final feedback: first time I reassembled, I had the upper contact points (nearer to fan) behind the plastic wall, and that's why it was so hard to snap back in place. Make sure when you are putting the cover back that the contacts closer to the fan are into their slots, and the thermocouple wires are straight and going into their slots too before you line up the spring posts. If you get those things right with the sliders in their grooves, it snaps back like a champ. (I used 1 piece of masking tape to hold down the rails while I did this, and then took i out when the upper contacts, thermocouples, and posts were all aligned.)


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> In conclusion, from now, for serious stable logging i will use DEX more often than not ... But for quick non-ambitious logging and charger testing, pcls is still a very suitable tool!



We still need to get PCLS going so we can update the firmware, right? We cannot update firmware using Mac OSX?


----------



## kreisl

chemEJoe said:


> We still need to get PCLS going so we can update the firmware, right? We cannot update firmware using Mac OSX?


MacOS is not supported at all for updating the firmware. ( even though future dex versions might support that )
No matter how superior and more reliable/stable dex is, yes we still need to get PCLS going for the firmware download&update procedure.

Well, perhaps they're providing a separate binary this time, with no pcls involved. That's how i install my beta firmwarez :devil:


----------



## Minimoog

Thanks for the thoughts Joe. It's back together now, successfully I add. I decided against removing the battery temperature sensing plates as I had a syringe so was able to inject the paste from below which was easy. You are right about care needed to insert the probes!

Edit to say that the double treatment of Deoxit and Pro gold seemed to really do something as I could see contamination on the cleaning cloth when I wiped off the excess.


----------



## Andrey

kreisl said:


> MacOS is not supported at all for updating the firmware. ( even though future dex versions might support that )



To clarify currently DEX runs and logs MC3000 perfectly on my Mac OS X 10.10.5 Yosemite.


----------



## chemEJoe

Minimoog said:


> Edit to say that the double treatment of Deoxit and Pro gold seemed to really do something as I could see contamination on the cleaning cloth when I wiped off the excess.



Deoxit and pro gold ... I want I want.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> yes we still need to get PCLS going for the firmware download&update procedure.



Ok, that's the next project. hobby project lol.


----------



## chemEJoe

billcushman said:


> Caig ProGold (now called DeoxiT Gold is a unique product. Costly but has no equal. They also have specialty greases. I have used Caig products since they were first recommended by Fluke in the 1970s.
> 
> http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.178/.f



Bill, thank you. I found a kit here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0164R06J2/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Also, this is a good article:
http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

Are the rails aluminum? Looks that way to me. Might oxidize over time of we've cleaned them off, unless they are stainless steel.


----------



## Minimoog

chemEJoe said:


> Bill, thank you. I found a kit here:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0164R06J2/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> 
> Also, this is a good article:
> http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm
> 
> Are the rails aluminum? Looks that way to me. Might oxidize over time of we've cleaned them off, unless they are stainless steel.



No, definitely not aluminium. The rails are plated steel and the sliders are thickly coated brass by the look and feel of them. When I cleaned my rails off I noticed that the surface had some slight tarnish discoloration, however after the DeOxit 100% solution was allowed to do its magic they came up silver. After buffing them with a cloth I painted them and the underside of the sliders with the ProGold and wiped off the excess. Now the result is a VERY lightly lubed feeling slider, no roughness or friction (after the de-burr) and excellent stability of voltage and charge current. Well worth the effort. It even looks better without all that greasy gunge lurking in the slots.


----------



## billcushman

chemEJoe said:


> Are the rails aluminum? Looks that way to me. Might oxidize over time of we've cleaned them off, unless they are stainless steel.



Hopefully the rails and sliders are 300 series stainless steel. 300 series stainless does not attract a magnet, just like brass or aluminum. If the 300 SS part is punched or formed it may slightly attract a magnet. 400 series stainless will attract a magnet.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

I bought my Deoxit and pro gold pens from a CPF seller years ago, and they last a long long time, some crazy prices to buy on ebay and amazon now, is there an more reasonable alternative to this expensive brand.

John.


----------



## chemEJoe

Minimoog said:


> No, definitely not aluminium. The rails are plated steel and the sliders are thickly coated brass by the look and feel of them. When I cleaned my rails off I noticed that the surface had some slight tarnish discoloration, however after the DeOxit 100% solution was allowed to do its magic they came up silver. After buffing them with a cloth I painted them and the underside of the sliders with the ProGold and wiped off the excess. Now the result is a VERY lightly lubed feeling slider, no roughness or friction (after the de-burr) and excellent stability of voltage and charge current. Well worth the effort. It even looks better without all that greasy gunge lurking in the slots.



Ok, I love caring for good tools and instruments. Is this kit good for what you did? Seems everywhere else, the quantities are too much for a guy who just wants to use this maybe 4x a year.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0164R06J2/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## chemEJoe

billcushman said:


> Hopefully the rails and sliders are 300 series stainless steel. 300 series stainless does not attract a magnet, just like brass or aluminum. If the 300 SS part is punched or formed it may slightly attract a magnet. 400 series stainless will attract a magnet.



I will try a magnet next time I play with my charger. You know a ton ... been around I guess. I liked your reference to ProGold's Deoxit's new name. That was a fun site to read. The grease info was interesting. Looks like a debate, to grease rails and connections or not. Dielectric or conductive grease, etc. Guess with this charger, if you go to 10mA, you need good contact over time. Or to get stable IR so it's meaningful. I would think over time, we just use the charger and enjoy our batteries, and this is like tuning your favorite muscle car to each's way.


----------



## Minimoog

chemEJoe said:


> Ok, I love caring for good tools and instruments. Is this kit good for what you did? Seems everywhere else, the quantities are too much for a guy who just wants to use this maybe 4x a year.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0164R06J2/?tag=cpf0b6-20



Yes, those look good, but watch out - once you start using it you will start using it everywhere. I was put on to it a few years ago now all my lights, batteries, chargers etc have been treated. On the MC3000 the noticeable difference is that charge current stays rock solid. Don't forget to do the battery contacts and contact points in each charge slot.


----------



## chemEJoe

Minimoog said:


> Yes, those look good, but watch out - once you start using it you will start using it everywhere. I was put on to it a few years ago now all my lights, batteries, chargers etc have been treated. On the MC3000 the noticeable difference is that charge current stays rock solid. Don't forget to do the battery contacts and contact points in each charge slot.



Thanks, I'll do this when I open it up again to clean out the extra thermocouple paste I had used. Really appreciate the tip.


----------



## PCH

Hi sorry to ask but I'm new to this I've just got my skyrc 3000 and I'm using olight 3.7 volt 3400mah batteries is it safe to charge them at the 3 amp setting ?


----------



## tjh

PCH said:


> Hi sorry to ask but I'm new to this I've just got my skyrc 3000 and I'm using olight 3.7 volt 3400mah batteries is it safe to charge them at the 3 amp setting ?



I believe that 0.8C is the recommended "maximum" to charge a 18650 LiIon at.

Therefore 3,400 * 0.8c = 2.7Amps.

So no, I wouldn't charge at 3Amps, but that being said I don't think you'll blow yourself up.

*note: Not an expert at all.


----------



## copter74

Hello,

What is the latest FW and HW version for the MC3000 charger ?

Here's what my charger indicates:
My FW version is *1.02*
My HW version is *1.04
*
I wanted to update FW using "MC3000 Monitor V1.01", i click on "checking for new Version" and i have this message:
*"Can not get firmware from the internet"
*
I do not understand or just the problem ? :duh2:


----------



## jpasint

copter74 said:


> Hello,
> 
> What is the latest FW and HW version for the MC3000 charger ?
> 
> Here's what my charger indicates:
> My FW version is *1.02*
> My HW version is *1.04
> *
> I wanted to update FW using "MC3000 Monitor V1.01", i click on "checking for new Version" and i have this message:
> *"Can not get firmware from the internet"
> *
> I do not understand or just the problem ? :duh2:



I'm on 1.03. 
Somebody in this thread said that Sky removed the FW downloads due to people bricking their chargers.


----------



## billcushman

PCH said:


> Hi sorry to ask but I'm new to this I've just got my skyrc 3000 and I'm using olight 3.7 volt 3400mah batteries is it safe to charge them at the 3 amp setting ?



I have charged and tested a bunch of Olight 3400 18650s. I would charge at 1.5A or 2A maximum. Discharge at .5A or .68A.

With the present firmware, separate charge and discharge programs will give accurate data. You can simulate Refresh or Cycle manually. It is a little more trouble but you will get accurate data (especially watt-hours)..


----------



## millguy

A new firmware revision is in the works. There were some problems with updating that left a few chargers unusable. They pulled the updating down until it gets worked out.


----------



## mrQQ

deleted post


----------



## copter74

Hello 





Ok i understand more, so that's okay, thank you.
I hope Skyrc will give us the rights to make the update.
...and what and the latest version ?

For nimh battery LSD 2300mA i put 1 / 5C is 0.46A but the internal resistance is low (75 mHom) and the detection even at 1 mV does not correctly detects the end of load, I'm disappointed.
I'll try with 1/3 C 760 mA and 1 mV.
Do you have this problem with LSD?


----------



## kreisl

mrQQ

do you still have problems with timing when logging with the latest DEX version ?
we know that pcls on your system has problems with the timing.
how about DEX on your system ?


----------



## mrQQ

I just noticed that 3.2.5 is out, and gonna try it now. Will see how it goes.

Meanwhile, I looked at manual, but couldn't find a quick answer: how can I choose a program for all slots at once? I tried holding enter, but it only set the active slot.


----------



## DeeFff

mrQQ said:


> Meanwhile, I looked at manual, but couldn't find a quick answer: how can I choose a program for all slots at once? I tried holding enter, but it only set the active slot.



From SPV, go to last item "SAVE TO:", select that via <enter>, hit <up arrow>, you should see "Slots". Hit <enter> to set that, then press&hold <enter>. The current program will be saved & copied to all inactive slots.

HTH


----------



## kreisl

DeeFff said:


> Hit <enter> to set that, then press&hold <enter>.


Or just press&hold <enter> on SAVE TO:Slots directly, without setting it first by a prior <enter>.


----------



## DeeFff

kreisl said:


> Or just press&hold <enter> on SAVE TO:Slots directly, without setting it first by a prior <enter>.



Ooh, that does save a step - nice!


----------



## mrQQ

hm, at first voltage drop was consistent, but nearing the end this is how it looks now:


----------



## kreisl

there is nothing wrong with the device then.

check good quality batteries and also check Batt IR, clean contacts. also clean the rails.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I wonder how durable the springs are after repeated use. Feel like they could snap.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I wonder how durable the springs are after repeated use. Feel like they could snap.



Have you had many chargers snap their springs before?
Did they feel like this one?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

thx 4 u concerns


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Have you had many chargers snap their springs before?
> Did they feel like this one?


Never had chargers with sliders before.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Never had chargers with sliders before.



Assume the positive, that's all you got to enjoy life more. This is an amazingly cool charger. For example, I've been blowing up my NiMH batteries for years with a 15 min charger. Until now, I've never really had a chance to learn about the match between charger and battery. So let the spring break, because the benefit is years of amazingly safe and economical use of what portable energy has to offer (cylindrical of course


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



chemEJoe said:


> Assume the positive, that's all you got to enjoy life more. This is an amazingly cool charger. For example, I've been blowing up my NiMH batteries for years with a 15 min charger. Until now, I've never really had a chance to learn about the match between charger and battery. So let the spring break, because the benefit is years of amazingly safe and economical use of what portable energy has to offer (cylindrical of course


Lol!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

anyone knows when the new firmware will be released?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> anyone knows when the new firmware will be released?



You can ask this member




hebergeur d image


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> anyone knows when the new firmware will be released?


Wait, aren't we supposed to ask you that?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Where can i get battery spacers for flat-top cells so that i no longer have to keep raising the cells every time?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

yes you guys can ask me but the squirrel can't know everything and all the time

lately i was busier with my lil flashlights and didn't really follow up on mc3k news

last thing i heard was that (k#41) and (k#42) are a go. i can't believe it until i see it tho


----------



## gyzmo2002

MarioJP said:


> Where can i get battery spacers for flat-top cells so that i no longer have to keep raising the cells every time?



A little magnet works well.




hébergement gratuit


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> yes you guys can ask me but the squirrel can't know everything and all the time
> 
> lately i was busier with my lil flashlights and didn't really follow up on mc3k news
> 
> last thing i heard was that (k#41) and (k#42) are a go. i can't believe it until i see it tho



I do not believe it.
You have a line into SkyRC, we do not!
We await the news from you good sir!



I guess we'll get a new version of MC Monitor before we get the firmware update - seeing as it's been shown that MC Monitor seems to have issues under anything non-Windows XP.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Lol!



High 5!



tjh said:


> I do not believe it.
> You have a line into SkyRC, we do not!
> We await the news from you good sir!
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we'll get a new version of MC Monitor before we get the firmware update - seeing as it's been shown that MC Monitor seems to have issues under anything non-Windows XP.



Heh heh heh, I knew my XP machine that I never turn on was destined to keep doing something good.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> anyone knows when the new firmware will be released?



Apparently rumours suggest the new firmware will be launched at the next big world trade fair in Berlin...

Don't ask me my sources, it's top secret squirrel stuff.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Im not sure this has been discussed, but i have a suggestion that should make it into a firmware update.
The storage program is ok to reach the desired voltage if the battery is below it, as the charger starts charging and we can set the termination value to zero, so at the end voltage is spot on. 
But if the voltage is higher than the desired voltage, then the charger starts discharging the battery to the desired voltage, and after it finishes the voltage is higher than the selected one.
All because the d-reduce setting isnt active in the storage program. 
Sooo erm, add to list of suggestions if it already isnt in the list.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> All because the d-reduce setting isnt active in the storage program.
> Sooo erm, add to list of suggestions if it already isnt in the list.



erm what fw version r u on?


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> erm what fw version r u on?


1.02


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> 1.02



thx for your observation. that bug was fixed in 1.03 then


----------



## bosko90

copter74 said:


> For nimh battery LSD 2300mA i put 1 / 5C is 0.46A but the internal resistance is low (75 mHom) and the detection even at 1 mV does not correctly detects the end of load, I'm disappointed.
> I'll try with 1/3 C 760 mA and 1 mV.
> Do you have this problem with LSD?



I am also noticed this :/ so I had to increase the charging current and terrmination set to 1mV. My other charger is also have -dV termination and it working normaly with 200mA current on 2400 AA. 
I know that on the NiMH battery at low flows are difficult to detect a drop. But why another cheaper ($ 35) charger normally works?


----------



## tjh

bosko90 said:


> I am also noticed this :/ so I had to increase the charging current and terrmination set to 1mV. My other charger is also have -dV termination and it working normaly with 200mA current on 2400 AA.
> I know that on the NiMH battery at low flows are difficult to detect a drop. But why another cheaper ($ 35) charger normally works?


What's your other charger?
How do you know it's terminating using -dV at such a low charge rate? 

I thought it was common knowledge that you don't get a -dV signal when charging below ~0.4C


----------



## bosko90

tjh said:


> What's your other charger?
> How do you know it's terminating using -dV at such a low charge rate?
> 
> I thought it was common knowledge that you don't get a -dV signal when charging below ~0.4C



yeah I know. that's why I'm confused.





[/IMG]


----------



## kreisl

That's the *most compact* 4-bay LCD charger-analyzer on the market afaik, nice one! My preferred dealer had it in stock for a while and i tested it long time ago. Can't remember if it uses _genuine _-dV/dt detection for _termination _purposes. That charger is actually best-selling in gemani (manual, amazon) and its price is half of MC3000 price


----------



## tjh

There is no way that charger can be terminating using -dV if you put a 2400Mah AA in there and charge it at 200ma*

I expect the charger uses a combination of -dV AND voltage detection. At the higher rates, it'll use -dV and at the lower rates, voltage. And whatever trigger it hits first causes it to terminate.

You can set your MC3000 to do the same, but the great thing with the MC3000 is you know the parameters exactly, with a charger like the one you posted (and in fact pretty much any other charger apart from the NC-2500 and the Intelligent open-source-firmware AA charger) you don't really know what make the charger see termination.

* = strong personal opinion after all I've read here on CFP. Happy to be told otherwise by the gurus.


----------



## kreisl

Maybe HKJ has interest in testing it?


----------



## tjh

Well I just found the manual in English.

Even it states the following:

"_Please note that the recommended charging currentshould be set to about 1/4 value in relation to insertedbattery’s rated capacity. For example for the 2000mAhR6/AA batteries the recommended charging current is500mA. For the 800mAh R03/AAA batteries therecommended charging current is 200mA.*Full charge termination method -∆V is less accurate withlower than recommended charging currents.*_"

They even acknowledge this - so I suspect it must have a backup termination method (voltage or time)


----------



## bosko90

I think it does not have the time termination method because always stopped at different time.. (a few minutes + -, few mAh up or down). It would be interesting to test it, but unfortunately I do not have the appropriate equipment.

At that time, when I bought that charger, I thought it was best kept to a minimum current. Until now, I've already read a lot about this topic and still learn from experience. MC3000 showed me a lot of things they still need to learn. but always I had the pleasure of playing with batteries and electronics (not related to my education). 

To stay in topic about MC3000 I have one more question. Are all four temperature sensors show the same in your case? in my case on 4th slot are always is the lowest temperature (same parameters on all slots). around 3°C compared to higgest temperature.


----------



## tjh

bosko90 said:


> To stay in topic about MC3000 I have one more question. Are all four temperature sensors show the same in your case? in my case on 4th slot are always is the lowest temperature (same parameters on all slots). around 3°C compared to higgest temperature.


I can't find the post now, but somewhere on one of the threads where teardown photos were posted, someone commented that of the 4 "discharge coils" (forgive me, I don't know their proper name), 3 were isolated with a thin layer of something (paper maybe, they weren't sure) while the 4th was connected directly to the heatsink. I think it was HKJ who posted it.

Anyway, I suspect that's your answer, the 4th slot has slightly better thermal conductivity to the heatsink.

I haven't measured mine, I don't often discharge batteries in the charger... What's the point of that!


----------



## tjh

kreisl said:


> slowly lift the bottom case a centimeter: you'll see the wire of the fan. detach the wire (fan plug) from the PCB, gently. now you can separate the bottom case from the PCB.


so... I'm stuck at this bit! How to get the connector out? I don't want to force it, I'll break it. What's the trick to getting it unplugged?

edit: Yes, I've plucked up the courage to do it.


----------



## chemEJoe

tjh said:


> so... I'm stuck at this bit! How to get the connector out? I don't want to force it, I'll break it. What's the trick to getting it unplugged?
> 
> edit: Yes, I've plucked up the courage to do it.



keep everything parallel so the pcb does not break the spring retention poles.

Lift the cover a bit, and you can put your fingers in and pull down straight on the connector. Another way is to use a small jeweler's screwdriver to loosen it - there are no retention clips on the connector, so pressure to separate it from the pcb will get it loose.

Also have a look at how the spring, rails, sliders are set up ... if you don't remember, don't worry because the pictures posted before by Kreisl and others are exhaustive in that you can figure out reassembly from there.

Have fun! It's a good mod!


----------



## tjh

chemEJoe said:


> keep everything parallel so the pcb does not break the spring retention poles.
> 
> Lift the cover a bit, and you can put your fingers in and pull down straight on the connector. Another way is to use a small jeweler's screwdriver to loosen it - there are no retention clips on the connector, so pressure to separate it from the pcb will get it loose.
> 
> Also have a look at how the spring, rails, sliders are set up ... if you don't remember, don't worry because the pictures posted before by Kreisl and others are exhaustive in that you can figure out reassembly from there.
> 
> Have fun! It's a good mod!



Thanks. It was just glued really well. I cut the glue and it's off now.
all my poles are still intact, phew!


----------



## tjh

Ignore.


----------



## chemEJoe

tjh said:


> Thanks. It was just glued really well. I cut the glue and it's off now.
> all my poles are still intact, phew!



Oops, I forgot about the glue. I just wiggled it and scored it with the jeweler's screwdriver. Good for you.

Me - I bought some Eneloops and am having fun with their very nice quality.

Quick question - did someone here say the Break_in program is not effective? I'm running the std eneloop break_in program, and the charge current is only 0.2A. Seems low. Maybe I need to set the mAh to 1900. Any thoughts?


----------



## Well_Max

Hello every one. I have skimmed through about 50 pages of this thread but have not found what I am looking for... 
-How would i revive a 14500 with 2.23 Volts. 

When I go to charge it, It gives me a message... I think it says to check voltage...

Can this charger revive? How would you experts go about reviving my sanyo ... with this charger?


----------



## tjh

Well_Max said:


> Hello every one. I have skimmed through about 50 pages of this thread but have not found what I am looking for...
> -How would i revive a 14500 with 2.23 Volts.
> 
> When I go to charge it, It gives me a message... I think it says to check voltage...
> 
> Can this charger revive? How would you experts go about reviving my sanyo ... with this charger?



Are you sure you're charging it as a LI-ION? Are you sure it's protection hasn't triggered?


----------



## bosko90

tjh said:


> I haven't measured mine, I don't often discharge batteries in the charger... What's the point of that!



No. even charging temperature is always lower on 4 slot. I mean battery temperature not system temperature.


----------



## Well_Max

tjh said:


> Are you sure you're charging it as a LI-ION? Are you sure it's protection hasn't triggered?



Well, I tried 2 different times today... and Maybe, just maybe i didn't have it setup to charge as Li-Ion . And Its Unprotected... I'll try again


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> thx for your observation. that bug was fixed in 1.03 then


Great then


----------



## kreisl

Well_Max said:


> -How would i revive a 14500 with 2.23 Volts.
> 
> When I go to charge it, It gives me a message... I think it says to check voltage...
> 
> Can this charger revive? How would you experts go about reviving my sanyo ... with this charger?



2.23V maybe 2low4 liion program to proceed
you could try LiFe BATT TYPE and slowly charge to 3.00V

or maybe It's unsafe to make further use of this battery anyway?

Which firmware have you got? You could try to set TRICKLE TIME to Rest


----------



## Andrey

Well_Max said:


> -How would i revive a 14500 with 2.23 Volts.
> When I go to charge it, It gives me a message... I think it says to check voltage...
> Can this charger revive? How would you experts go about reviving my sanyo ... with this charger?



When you hold a slot button, charger sends small voltage pulses to that slot to reset tripped protection circuit. These pulses would charge a dead LiIon battery very slowly. You can monitor battery voltage as charger flashes values on the screen. Be patient and the battery voltage will raise above 2.8V in a few minutes. If charger still shows 'check voltage' message, just hold the slot button some more.

[Edit] The above technique does not work with unprotected batteries. You may try connecting it to a healthy battery for a short time or play with trickle charging as suggested by Kreisl above.

 WARNING!  Be really careful if you decide to further charge such a 'revived' battery. Chances are it is already damaged by overdischarge and may vent with flames or explode.  That is why protection circuits prevent charging batteries measuring low voltage.

Problem with such a procedure is that you may not want to use the 'revived' battery anyway. Firstly, it may be damaged and possess an increased risk of flame or explosion during subsequent charges. Secondly, its remaining capacity will be so low it just doesn't make sense.

I recently 'revived' four 7-year old AW ICR123 16340s. One of them was showing internal resistance over 400 mOhm and became hot during charge so I had to stop charging to let it cool off. 
Capacity of these batteries measured under 100 mAh and they were self-discharging very fast. So after this scary 'revival' process I discarded them anyway.


----------



## tjh

A few notes for anyone else doing the fan mod:

1) The fan connector is glued. You have to cut/break the glue to get it off. Otherwise, there are no clips etc, it does just slide off. Just do it gently and ensure you're holding the bottom as well to not break anything.
2) I didn't bother with the spacers. I just removed the *whole grill*. The fan still sits perfectly on it's four corners. Once I'd cut all the plastic out, I got some sandpaper and made it nice and smooth. Now I have a big, gaping hole there with the fan in it. It's made the fan even quieter than it was, while allowing the maximum amount of airflow. Win Win! Of course this is a hole now that dust etc can get in, but it could have gotten in anyway, all the grill really stopped was large items like fingers and paper etc.
3) I can't get sys-temp about ~62c now. (I never tested how high it would go before the reversal)

So, very happy!

edit: Wow, you can really feel the heat coming out the top opening now. I can't believe the fan originally blew the other way, it almost seems like it was a manufacturing defect.

Tim


----------



## tjh

bosko90 said:


> No. even charging temperature is always lower on 4 slot. I mean battery temperature not system temperature.



Yea, I just checked and noticed this. I am doing a 4 x 1A 18650 discharge to "prove" my fan mod worked.

Slot temps are:

1: 35.0c
2: 33.7c
3: 33.6c
4: 28.2c
Systemp: 61c

Bizzare. Not really a bit deal though.


----------



## Devon

It's quite safe to charge over discharged LiIo.

I've brought back cells that were well down, some around 0.5v.

Bring them back slowly, low charge rate of 10% or less.

The lower the cell has been discharged the less capacity it will have when restored and it's discharge rates may also be reduced.

You need to be far more careful when using over discharged cells at high amp rates.

Your cells at 2.23v should be fine but test them in the charger through a couple of discharges at in excess of the discharge rate the device you plan on using them in will draw.


----------



## chemEJoe

tjh said:


> ... 3) I can't get sys-temp about ~62c now. (I never tested how high it would go before the reversal)
> 
> So, very happy!
> 
> Tim



Nice one, Tim!

@kreisl, others who know:

I put in fresh Eneloops (1900 mAh) to do Break_in under Eneloop mode, and it picked Std AA. I woke up to 3000+ mAh charged into the batteries, and it's now 2/3 through the discharge. (D>C>D). I guess Break_in for Eneloops are on timer of charge at 16 hrs, 0.2A. The D is at -0.4A.

Did I just harm my new batteries, or is this meant to be where it keeps charging for 16 hrs at 0.2A? I have many more to do and wonder if I should just do Refresh? Thanks in advance.


----------



## tjh

chemEJoe said:


> Nice one, Tim!
> 
> @kreisl, others who know:
> 
> I put in fresh Eneloops (1900 mAh) to do Break_in under Eneloop mode, and it picked Std AA. I woke up to 3000+ mAh charged into the batteries, and it's now 2/3 through the discharge. (D>C>D). I guess Break_in for Eneloops are on timer of charge at 16 hrs, 0.2A. The D is at -0.4A.
> 
> Did I just harm my new batteries, or is this meant to be where it keeps charging for 16 hrs at 0.2A? I have many more to do and wonder if I should just do Refresh? Thanks in advance.



This is how Break In works. It puts in 1.6 times the capacity of the battery, but because it's doing it at 0.1c it doesn't cause any harm.
The C9000 does exactly the same thing. Fear not. It's normal.


----------



## kreisl

sounds legit Joe
16h x 0.20A is 3200mAh, minus the few mAh where the voltage is measured off load.

d c d sounds correct for breakin.
instead of refresh i prefer cycle n=3 with c>d mode.
1a charge, 1h resting, 1a discharge, 1h resting.

oki midnight now, good nite&#55356;&#57097;&#55356;&#57113;&#55356;&#57091;


----------



## Gauss163

Devon said:


> It's quite safe to charge over discharged LiIo. I've brought back cells that were well down, some around 0.5v ...



That is not _generally _true. Whether or not overdischarged Li-ion cells are safe to use depends on numerous factors, many of which are often unknown or difficult to quantify, e.g. how long the cell remained discharged at dangerously low voltages, environmental history (temperature, humidity, SOC, etc).

In matters like these it is better to be safe than sorry. Poor safety practice can lead to severe injuries, e.g. this recent explosion which lit a face on fire and busted teeth, or the recent pants-on-fire incidents, one of which was caught on video.


----------



## chemEJoe

tjh said:


> This is how Break In works. It puts in 1.6 times the capacity of the battery, but because it's doing it at 0.1c it doesn't cause any harm.
> The C9000 does exactly the same thing. Fear not. It's normal.





kreisl said:


> sounds legit Joe
> 16h x 0.20A is 3200mAh, minus the few mAh where the voltage is measured off load.
> 
> d c d sounds correct for breakin.
> instead of refresh i prefer cycle n=3 with c>d mode.
> 1a charge, 1h resting, 1a discharge, 1h resting.
> 
> oki midnight now, good nite������



Thanks, that puts my mind at ease, Tim and Kreisl. I can't wait to replace all my straggler NiMHs (that I probably damaged with my '15min charger') with these nice batteries.

I will try n=3, C>D with 1 hr rests to see if in the end, that gives me new Eneloops with larger capacities. I'll let y'all know if that's of interest.


----------



## MarioJP

chemEJoe said:


> I can't wait to replace all my straggler NiMH (that I probably damaged with my '15min charger') with these nice batteries.



15 minute cooker is more like it lol.


----------



## chemEJoe

MarioJP said:


> 15 minute cooker is more like it lol.



Too right mate, as the Aussies say. I was cooking my batteries for 10 yrs without knowing it. Battery manufacturer charger lol.


----------



## Well_Max

kreisl said:


> 2.23V maybe 2low4 liion program to proceed
> you could try LiFe BATT TYPE and slowly charge to 3.00V
> 
> or maybe It's unsafe to make further use of this battery anyway?
> 
> Which firmware have you got? You could try to set TRICKLE TIME to Rest





Well, Here is an update 

I have firmware 1.03 

The Battery was reading 2.23 on my multimeter and on the charger, but when I tried a third time to charge it under li-ion settings, It gave me that message ( check voltage)

Then the batteries volts dropped from 2.23 to 1.47. on my multimeter and on the charger... and it slowly rose 1.48, 1.49, 1.50 kinda like Andrey was saying...
All this was last night...

This evening after work, I check battery voltage off of the charger after reading the replies and the cell was reading 2.01 and same thing happened again after trying to charge it the volts dropped down to 1.xx



Im am some what noobish to these lights and batteries, but I have had r/c cars so I learned how to charge batteries (lipo's) but I don't quite understand all of what this charger has to offer like delta peak, and rest under trickle time.... Im just a little sad that my basically brand new red unprotected sanyo 14500 820mah cell is acting up because I left it in a $3 sk68 clone flashlight for a week....

BTW it has been over discharged for a little over a week.


----------



## MarioJP

I have decided that i am not going to bother with the round magnets after all. The charger makes contact when the cells are raised, and that is good enough for me. The only reason i wanted these magnets was for the battery temp sensor, and that this can be a safety concern. I do have to wonder though. As wonderful as this charger is and i know that it is the only charger with this much flexibility out in the market right now. How can something like this be missed?? And, has it been corrected on the new hardware revision? I am pretty sure other cheaper chargers out there don't have this problem with 18650B cells. Reading couple post back on this thread, remember some of you had issues with AAA's not making contact. While i never had that issue with the AAA's. That pales in comparison with the B's big time lol. I did some experimenting regarding this issue and maybe i could be overlooking things. On the third slot. It kind of makes a contact but not a stable connection when the cells are not raised. for all the other slots. "No Battery" So in conclusion. Raise the cells and problem solved. With that said, when it is time to recycle these cells. I am going for the GA next time as i read those have no problem making contact. And Good night lol.


----------



## chemEJoe

Eneloop AA BK-3MCC 1900mAh (White)

I ran Break_In and then Kreisl's suggested n=3, C>D, 1A charge, 60 min rest, 0.6A discharge. I got materially the same results as this table in the HKJ review:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop AA BK-3MCC 1900mAh (White) UK.html

That is, after the 16hr charge/discharge from the Break_In cycle for Eneloop AA Std, I got just over 1900 mAh. Then cycling 3 times, it dropped each time and stabilized.

1. 1941 Break_In, then 1891, 1864, 1862 mAh
2. 1976 Break_In, then 1929, 1902, 1904
3. 1942 Break_In, then 1892, 1862, 1862
4. 1942 Break_In, then 1890, 1860, 1862

IRs were 34-48 mohm.

So, the rest of them I will just run Break_In and these are probably authentic and good. From Amazon, the 70% charge-10 yr ones (new US marketing label). Anyone see a value to running the 3 cycles to perfect the battery break-in?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Sorry if mentioned, But were these made in Japan or China?

John.


----------



## chemEJoe

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Sorry if mentioned, But were these made in Japan or China?
> 
> John.



John, if you are asking me on my Eneloops, the jackets on the cells say Made in Japan. Again, the Amazon ones with the 70% charge in 10 yrs branding. If you read about it, I think, not sure, it's the same battery as before, and the US just decided they can market it that way. 1900 mAh rating, about $2.50-$2.60 each.

Does anyone know if the 3 subsequent cycles Kreisl recommended are an important step to setting up the battery for a long life? They add another day to the prep, and I guess it's worth it. I read elsewhere one is wise to Refresh NiMH every 10 use cycles, does this apply to eneloops too (LSD)?


----------



## kreisl

chemEJoe said:


> Does anyone know if the 3 subsequent cycles Kreisl recommended


as the MH-C9000 manual explains the Break_in program does not really break in the stored batteries but simulates the procedure for determining the battery capacity. the battery capacity is higher when the battery is in shipshape condition. a man is not in top form right after getting up from bed's zZz. to reach top form he needs to get the body warmed up, ready for the sprint. for an unused battery, like an old stored or new stored one, the capacity climbs to reach a plateau after 3 cycles at high rates. i observed it numerous times, even with Liion batteries. so actually my practical recommendation is: do 3 cycles at higher rates first, then conclude with 1 break_in cycle to determine the max capacity. this recommendation would apply to all stored NiMH batteries, Eneloop, LSD, etc

never mind. after some good use of the Eneloops they will be broken in along the way. Break_in program in MH-C9000 and MC3000 imho primarily serve to determine max battery capacity in a standardized way.

for "breaking in" batteries you just need to put them to regular use. that's all.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> as the MH-C9000 manual explains the Break_in program does not really break in the stored batteries but ... the capacity climbs to reach a plateau after 3 cycles at high rates. i observed it numerous times, even with Liion batteries. so actually my practical recommendation is: do 3 cycles at higher rates first, then conclude with 1 break_in cycle to determine the max capacity. this recommendation would apply to all stored NiMH batteries, Eneloop, LSD, etc



Ok, thank you then. I will run the cycles and increase D to 1A as you recommended from the 0.5 that I am using. Actually, I'm just learning about these batteries, so it's worth it for me to see what you are saying. After setting the batteries up, they will probably go into a flashlight that sits in the drawer anyway, as the only use I have for portable power is bike lights (18650s) and cell phone/laptop. The NiMH is for kids toys, and those get infrequent uses. At least now I don't have to worry about the batteries dying out after maybe only 25 cycles (15 min chargers). I don't think I've ever gotten 125 cycles out of my NiMH batteries as indicated by this thread by Silverfox below. These eneloops are rated for 2100 cycles, I believe. With the MC3000, I think that maybe be 10+ yrs then for my uses. Going to have to by more powered boytoyz.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?114943-Cycle-Testing-Observations%85

On another aspect, I got my Amazon Deoxit kit today so will be cleaning and prepping the sliders to maintain good contact. Thanks to minimoog and billcushman.


----------



## kreisl

if you swap batteries in and out often, or don't proceed with care, you won't get the 2100 swaps. with most batteries what is going to fail on you will be the wrapper, sooner or later. NiMH AA wrappers are smooth (aren't they?) yet glued. the glue is weak on the smooth wrapper surface and also degrades with heat, like in hot running flashlights. i had to rewrap my abused Eneloops with scotch or 3m because the wrapper glue was failing. never mind, that's OT.


----------



## chaos215bar2

I recently bought one of these and have a few thoughts I thought I would leave here. I do apologize if I'm reiterating things that have been discussed already. I did look over the thread, but it's 96 pages long.

_A concern_: Bluetooth functionality is neat, though I haven't tried doing anything more than connecting to the charger yet. However, I'm a bit concerned by the fact that no pairing is required and my phone automatically connects to whatever charger it finds. First, I imagine this would make it difficult to control multiple chargers in close proximity, since there's nothing to single one or the other out. More importantly, however unlikely, what's stopping someone outside my house from connecting to the charger, messing with the charge target voltage (for instance), and at best destroying my batteries or at worst starting a fire? I'm not at all comfortable with completely unsecured wireless control of a lithium battery charger — especially one with this degree of control over the charging cycle. Bluetooth needs to be secured via pairing, and barring that, there needs to be an option to turn it off.

_A comment_: Regarding the bug / improvement marked in the opening post for the instruction manual, "PCLS stops logging if other USB devices or bluetooth are activated". I've seen some discussion over extremely finicky USB behavior in PCLS, including warnings not to use any other USB devices during firmware updates because they can interrupt the connection. USB is more than capable of handling multiple devices on the same bus. If this charger and/or PCLS is not, that is absolutely a hardware and/or software bug, and should be fixed. It's a little strange to see this listed as something to "fix" via documentation.

_One other thing_: It would be great to be able to name programs, especially through a computer or phone.

Other than that, this looks like a great charger and I look forward to putting it through its paces.


----------



## Devon

chaos215bar2 said:


> I recently bought one of these and have a few thoughts I thought I would leave here. I do apologize if I'm reiterating things that have been discussed already. I did look over the thread, but it's 96 pages long.
> 
> _A concern_: Bluetooth functionality is neat, though I haven't tried doing anything more than connecting to the charger yet. However, I'm a bit concerned by the fact that no pairing is required and my phone automatically connects to whatever charger it finds. First, I imagine this would make it difficult to control multiple chargers in close proximity, since there's nothing to single one or the other out. More importantly, however unlikely, what's stopping someone outside my house from connecting to the charger, messing with the charge target voltage (for instance), and at best destroying my batteries or at worst starting a fire? I'm not at all comfortable with completely unsecured wireless control of a lithium battery charger — especially one with this degree of control over the charging cycle. Bluetooth needs to be secured via pairing, and barring that, there needs to be an option to turn it off.
> 
> _A comment_: Regarding the bug / improvement marked in the opening post for the instruction manual, "PCLS stops logging if other USB devices or bluetooth are activated". I've seen some discussion over extremely finicky USB behavior in PCLS, including warnings not to use any other USB devices during firmware updates because they can interrupt the connection. USB is more than capable of handling multiple devices on the same bus. If this charger and/or PCLS is not, that is absolutely a hardware and/or software bug, and should be fixed. It's a little strange to see this listed as something to "fix" via documentation.
> 
> _One other thing_: It would be great to be able to name programs, especially through a computer or phone.
> 
> Other than that, this looks like a great charger and I look forward to putting it through its paces.



The latest Android app for the MC3000 allows the naming of programs on the phone or tablet. It stores them under the name you specify and works well from what I am doing.


----------



## kappa7

chaos215bar2 said:


> ..
> _A concern_: Bluetooth functionality is neat, though I haven't tried doing anything more than connecting to the charger yet. However, I'm a bit concerned by the fact that no pairing is required and my phone automatically connects to whatever charger it finds. First, I imagine this would make it difficult to control multiple chargers in close proximity, since there's nothing to single one or the other out. More importantly, however unlikely, what's stopping someone outside my house from connecting to the charger, messing with the charge target voltage (for instance), and at best destroying my batteries or at worst starting a fire? I'm not at all comfortable with completely unsecured wireless control of a lithium battery charger — especially one with this degree of control over the charging cycle. Bluetooth needs to be secured via pairing, and barring that, there needs to be an option to turn it off.



I agree, a pairing code (to be put via charger buttons-LCD screen) should be implemented.


----------



## kreisl

chaos215bar2 said:


> Other than that, this looks like a great charger and I look forward to putting it through its paces.


Hello, thanks for your input. Your concerns are all valid, no arguing there.

Yes we could call the USB finickiness a software bug in PCLS, which is an easy call because DEX does not have that USB finickiness problem. No promises as to by when this bug will have been fixed in PCLS. Hopefully soon. For ambitious logging i now prefer DEX. We still need i guess PCLS for the online firmware updating we'll see i have no idea. Guys don't hold your breath for major advances in the app or the pcls development. Bug fixes, like the pcls usb finickiness, will come though asap.

Naming of programs on the phone is possible. Naming of programs on the device has been covered by (k#18) and (k#19), the solution is within the limitations of the LCD and i find it acceptable.

The classic pairing of BT devices was more of a characteristic thing in older BT versions; it's a feature of BT 4.0+ that "matching BT devices" pair up faster, more conveniently. I read somewhere that it was rated cool 

Afaik the manual mentions that only 1 device can be controlled thru BT —feel free to call it a limitation of the current mark—, and btw it's also not possible to run DEX and BT at the same time. If you have 4 mc3k's in 1 room and 4 peoples with BT phones in that room and everybody launches the app to connect to his mc3k, then boom . Perhaps the maker did not really consider such a scenario to be realistic; i mean why would there be a gathering of 4 mc3k's? 1 mc3k in 1 room be enough, or so. :kiss:

In fw 1.04 there will be an item in GSV to "turn the Bluetooth off". Due to the nature of the build it is not possible to turn the bluetooth power off however the option in GSV makes the device non-listen to commands produced by the BT module, so you're on the safe side when someone tries to ****ck your charger thru de BT connection. I've listed your suggestion under (k#44), thanks.

If anyone one has further strong realistic suggestions to be included in the 1.04 release, please shoot. Now is the time. :tinfoil:


----------



## chaos215bar2

BT 4.0 may very well have a faster way to pair devices or allow devices to connect more quickly once paired, but pairing itself is very much a security feature. It's there both to establish a lasting connection so that you can continue to connect with the correct device in the presence of other similar ones and so that no one else can connect to your devices without first starting the pairing procedure.

Pairing here could work similarly to what's done, for instance, with a Bluetooth keyboard. Frequently no code is required, but the keyboard must be made "discoverable" before a new device can be paired with it. During this first connection, the two devices establish a cryptographic key so that they can securely authenticate and connect with each other in the future. When the keyboard is not discoverable, it will not allow this initial exchange to take place. This prevents anyone else from taking control of the keyboard without physical access or impersonating it without access to both the keyboard and whatever it's paired with.


----------



## kreisl

today i cycled my brand-new authentic TrustFire 18350 (red wrapper, *white *disc isolator, hologram, sourced from gb) a few more times, putting the timers (see discussion before) and dex to a serious test. everything like elapsed time and mAh readings matched and passed. i charged the cell with 0.50A and 0.01A termination current, discharge cut-off at 2.80V. in contrast to HKJ's test results, I am getting clearly over 800mAh out of the cell: 





[ let's note the differences: HKJ used a higher termination current, his cells have a *black *disc isolator, are sourced from ft, and room temperature differed too. And the actual cell inside might be slightly different in chemical composition or production quality. my 2 cells weigh 21-22g each (on a +1g digital kitchen scale), HKJ's cell weighs "20.9g". ]

for the 500mA run, the "average voltage" was "3.630V", energy "3.02Wh" (Excel calc gives 3.0299…Wh), discharge time "1h40min11sec", capacity "834mAh". quick'n dirty cross-check: 
500*(1*60*60+40*60+11)/3600 = 834.86111mAh > 834mAh, which is true. in other words, _if _the actual discharge current was indeed 500mA and constant _and _the timer was following NIST timing, _then _the discharged capacity really would have been 834.86111mAh, clearly over 800mAh. Why? simply because of the long discharging time. dex log's last row is 01:40:10.000, and Excel calculates -834,1841666668mAh with its 1Hz sampling. for this run, perfect timers/timing, perfect result!
HKJ had measured 722mAh in the 500mA discharge test, so my cells are better quality i bin







,

,



anyway, my cell states 800mAh nominal, and i am measuring slightly over 800mAh both for low (500mA) and for high discharge (2000mA) currents. pretty happi wiv de result, cheers!





in case anyone wants to know how i created the above Excel graph, feel free to study the xlsx file by double-clicking on the spreadsheet cells to unveil the underlying excel operation:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/pbpqdp


----------



## PCH

Dear sirs sorry to trouble you with this but i believe your the best persons to ask about this I have done the voltage calibration test but i don't understand why after I charge my olight 18650 3600mha the charger says 4.2 volts but in a few seconds it drops to 4.130 volts what am i doing wrong or is this normal. i had a nitecore D4 charger that after charging showed 4.2 volts I have checked on my fluke meter my same test after my sky RC 3000 only shows 4.130 volts am i doing something wrong or is this Normal why dose it say 4.2 volts then drop aways so quickly any help if you could spear the time would be most help full yours with regards Peter Hogan aka PCH New Zealand


----------



## HKJ

PCH said:


> Dear sirs sorry to trouble you with this but i believe your the best persons to ask about this I have done the voltage calibration test but i don't understand why after I charge my olight 18650 3600mha the charger says 4.2 volts but in a few seconds it drops to 4.130 volts what am i doing wrong or is this normal. i had a nitecore D4 charger that after charging showed 4.2 volts I have checked on my fluke meter my same test after my sky RC 3000 only shows 4.130 volts am i doing something wrong or is this Normal why dose it say 4.2 volts then drop aways so quickly any help if you could spear the time would be most help full yours with regards Peter Hogan aka PCH New Zealand




Try reading here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...rger-do-not-charge-LiIon-to-4-2V-is-it-faulty


----------



## PCH

many thanks most helpful I thought it was my new SkyRc 3000 very grateful for your help


----------



## kreisl

PCH said:


> nitecore D4 charger that after charging showed 4.2 volts I have checked on my fluke meter my same test after my sky RC 3000 only shows 4.130 volts


an indirect way of controlling the witnessed voltage drop is by way of changing the termination current. That _option_, TERMINATION, has a _parameter _range from {Zero|0.01A|0.02A|…|_1C_|OFF}, and the lower you set the parameter the less expressed will the voltage drop manifest itself.

in fw 1.04, the Zero parameter will asymptotically approach a super small constant current, practically ~0.00A or even ~0.000A. It has been listed under (k#45).

for now, just set the TERMINATION option to Zero and redo your test. in your old fw version, the charging routine will finish once the charging current has reached 0.008A. with this setting the battery voltage should show ~4.198V on your Fluke DMM or so.

please could you try and let us know your new test result? :tinfoil:


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> in fw 1.04, the Zero parameter will asymptotically approach a super small constant current, practically ~0.00A or even ~0.000A. It has been listed under (k#45). for now, just set the TERMINATION option to Zero and redo your test. in your old fw version, the charging routine will finish once the charging current has reached 0.008A.



Worth emphasizing is that you should not do this frequently since it accelerates cell degradation by forcing the cell to be at higher voltages for longer periods. Generally if you wish to maximize the lifetime of your cells you should schedule your charging so to minimize the time they spend at high voltages and high temperatures - both of which accelerate internal parasitic electrochemical reactions.


----------



## tjh

I managed to thread one of the screw holes on the charger - doh.
Anyway, in case anyone else does this (it's easy to do, metal screws, soft plastic case) the fix I used was as follows:

Remove all other screws
Lift case gently and unscrew the screw while lifting the case, it'll then come out.
Screw all the working screws back in *CAREFULLY.*
Cut up a fine piece of plastic - I used the push-out case of a SIM Card. Cut it into a fine long piece and drop it in the affected hole.
Screw the screw back into the wonky hole. The extra bit of plastic you've dropped in will fill out and the screw will "bite" properly again.

I'm a muppet. But that's how you fix it if you also muppet it up.


----------



## chemEJoe

tjh said:


> The extra bit of plastic you've dropped in will fill out and the screw will "bite" properly again.
> 
> I'm a muppet. But that's how you fix it if you also muppet it up.



This is a very nice tip, very creative and smart!


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

So as some of you know, I have just ordered one of these baby`s  from GearBest for £63 ordered on the 22nd shipped 23rd, free 5 to 10 day delivery supposedly.

Questions so the newest charger`s come with firmware v1.4, is v1.4 available to download or is only v1.3 available at the moment, where do we go to download the latest firmware, the SKYRC website does not show any firmware, do you have to be a member of the development forum or something.

Thanks

John.


----------



## tjh

TinderBox (UK) said:


> So as some of you know, I have just ordered one of these baby`s
> 
> Questions so the newest charger`s come with firmware v1.4, is v1.4 available to download or is only v1.3 available at the moment, where do we go to download the latest firmware, the SKYRC website does not show any firmware, do you have to be a member of the development forum or something.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John.



Most likely it'll come with v1.03.

v1.04 isn't available yet. I suspect (I don't know, am only guessing) that there will be an update to MC_3000_Monitor.exe to support the new firmware update. Because the existing version of MC_Monitor _apparently_ had issues on Windows 7-10 with updating the firmware, causing failures. (These were fixed by SkyRC with a dedicated binary issued to affected customers, it didn't ruin the charger)

Maybe they will just issue a seperate 1.04 update binary.

Anyway, you'll get a v1.03 fan-blowing-upwards charger.

Enjoy.


----------



## tjh

kreisl said:


> If anyone one has further strong realistic suggestions to be included in the 1.04 release, please shoot. Now is the time. :tinfoil:




Not sure if I'm too late, but here's a few more from me:



When the display has had "NO BATTERY" in all slots for 5 minutes, make the screen go into screen saver mode. Either it could turn off fully, or maybe bounce a pixel around or similar. Then it wakes up when a button is pressed or a battery is inserted.
When charging, the only graph available on the charger itself is voltage. Why not also current (good for Li-Ion), temp, capacity etc?
An option so that button presses don't beep, but so that the charger still beeps on completion/error etc. I want noises for when things are done, but the beeping while pressing buttons gets on my nerves. I know I'm pressing things, damnit! 

Cheers.


----------



## kreisl

tjh said:


> When the display has had "NO BATTERY" in all slots for 5 minutes, make the screen go into screen saver mode. Either it could turn off fully, or maybe bounce a pixel around or similar. Then it wakes up when a button is pressed or a battery is inserted.
> When charging, the only graph available on the charger itself is voltage. Why not also current (good for Li-Ion), temp, capacity etc?
> An option so that button presses don't beep, but so that the charger still beeps on completion/error etc. I want noises for when things are done, but the beeping while pressing buttons gets on my nerves.


 re 1. i find the screensaver idea fun (and the mc3k philosophy is also about fun!) but there is no way that i would forward it as suggestion at this point. lowest priority. bug fixes and pcls development would rank so much higher.
re 2. you can be sure that the folks already considered other quantities to graph in DDV and i don't want to make them implement something that they're not convinced themselves of, questionable stuff. i am not comfortable with current, capacity, power, energy myself. of the 5 possible temp readings i'd only agree about the SysTemp. also low priority in my books but i'd be happy to see SysTemp graphed in DDV.
re 3. iCharger has a more diversified implementation to control beeping and i don't even understand what they all are, and i actually never cared to read up or test them, and i still don't care about the iCharger 3 options with 8 parameters (total), call me ignorant haha:


iCharger said:


> _Key stroke {ON|OFF}
> Buzzer {ON|OFF}
> Completion {5×|3min|Always|OFF}_


Sky is aware of the above quote, maybe they didn't find it as interesting as other mc3k-related work. Will come in future but not in 1.04

Thanks for your kind suggestions tjh. Needless to say that all of them would be easy to implement, and if they really wanted to, they'd do it in no time. Yet imho more pressing is the improvement of pcls and whatever further bugs we find in 1.04 (and pcls and bluetooth). I've listed your three suggestions and i'll pitch when time has come.

Any fw bugs in 1.03 not listed so far?


----------



## tjh

Yea I'm fine with that.
They were all "nice to have" suggestions - I fully support proper fixes for important things first.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

The _(Key stroke {ON|OFF} and Buzzer {ON|OFF}) __Sound like a good idea to me, as a lot of people prefer to disable sounds so as to not disturb others.__

__John.__
___



tjh said:


> Yea I'm fine with that.
> They were all "nice to have" suggestions - I fully support proper fixes for important things first.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

If anybody is looking for an usb power voltage meter, I have two of the white KCX-017 version mentioned in this thread, on one the voltage is slightly out, but there is no way to recalibrate it, but i also have two of the meters in the link below, they are a lot more accurate, you can change the usb mode and calibrate the meter and it`s only about $10

So unless you have a need for the microusb socket of the KCX-017, I recommend the usb meter below as it is the best bang for the buck.

"OLED USB 3.0 Charger Capacity power Current Voltage Detector Tester Meter Mobile"

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171927124...49&var=470835760531&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

John.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I figured out that Average in SOV is being computed as the quotient of energy and capacity. Discharging an old Samsung ICR18650-32A at -1.00A from 4.35V to 2.75V resulted in "Average: 3.700V" on the LCD lol.


Actually i was wrong with the "I figured out". Errare humano est.

Today I am testing 10180's with dex, and cross-checking the value of Average gives that it is exactly the quotient of the voltage sum (at 1Hz dex sampling rate) and the LCD routine time (Time, not Total, converted to seconds). Mathematically speaking, it is the _dt_ time integral of the voltage(_t_), divided by the time integral of _dt_ itself, i.e. with the ident weighting function W=_1_=_const_., which is in the end nothing but the elapsed routine time _t_, very banal. In my text that's the most primitive but also a fully correct and acceptable way of defining an "average" physical quantity, here the "average voltage".

Of course it's a hypothetical/virtual/calculated quantity and has imo no practical meaning. An "average voltage" could be defined in many different (and still logical) ways, e.g. as the quotient of accumulated energy and accumulated capacity up to that point _t_, or with a non-ident weighting function W=W(_t_) under the integral, for example current, capacity, power, energy, anything(_t_).

When the maker revises the manual —fw 1.04 would warrant an updated manual imho—, i'll ask them to include the above as explanation of what Average in SOV means.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Does anybody know of a brand of permanent marker that won't rub off, I mark the capacity of my cells, I have 3 different brands of permanent maker and they all just rub off just with my hands when i pick up the cells

Thanks

John.


----------



## copter74

copter74 said:


> Hello
> 
> Ok i understand more, so that's okay, thank you.
> I hope Skyrc will give us the rights to make the update.
> ...and what and the latest version ?
> 
> For nimh battery LSD 2300mA i put 1 / 5C is 0.46A but the internal resistance is low (75 mHom) and the detection even at 1 mV does not correctly detects the end of load, I'm disappointed.
> I'll try with 1/3 C 760 mA and 1 mV.
> Do you have this problem with LSD?






bosko90 said:


> I am also noticed this :/ so I had to increase the charging current and terrmination set to 1mV. My other charger is also have -dV termination and it working normaly with 200mA current on 2400 AA.
> I know that on the NiMH battery at low flows are difficult to detect a drop. But why another cheaper ($ 35) charger normally works?





tjh said:


> What's your other charger?
> How do you know it's terminating using -dV at such a low charge rate?
> 
> I thought it was common knowledge that you don't get a -dV signal when charging below ~0.4C



Hello,

Personally I am very disappointed with this charger while yet he was very impresive.
This charger for my case is a battery killer.
Not only this charger is expensive but the delta peak works when he feels like it.

I made twenty test.
I own 40 batteries which are new (2300 mA LSD NiMH) and a lot of other batteries.
By loading a 700mA or 1000mA (delta peak is 1 mV) the detection is sometimes yes and sometimes no. (random)
I tried on batteries (NiCd 800mA) Charging at 160 mA and a 15mV delta peak charger never stops.
Forced to use the timer or cut capacity.
I tried on a BC-700 Lacrosse $ 30 and never any problem of detection!

I am only one with this problem ?
I hope an update will solve this problem!

Here are 800mA Ni-CD (charge: 160mA and 15mV Delta Peak)
Once loaded I was 0.1A discharge and have a capacity 760 mA, exactly the same as if I load with the timer for 5 hours at 160 mA

This is not normal ?


----------



## Minimoog

15mV delta peak? Seems very high - surely 2-3mV would be better?


----------



## kreisl

copter74 said:


> Here are 800mA Ni-CD (charge: 160mA and 15mV Delta Peak)


you mean 800mAh Ni-CD?

160/800 = 0.2C , isn't that kinda low? :thinking:

15mV Delta Peak, why so high? 

bc700 offers 200, 500 and 700mA charging rates. which rate do you use with the bc700?

do you have a manufacturer's PDF-datasheet for your Ni-CD batteries?

did you read the fine manual? the MC3000 instruction manual?

i have old and new NiMH batteries, LSD and not, and with the default settings 0.5C/3mV i don't get missed terminations. with 0dV the charger terminates even earlier, if you prefer that.

sure, with the BC700 you don't need to play with advanced settings like Delta Peak. and the BC700 costs only 30$.

but honestly speaking i have more fun with the MC3000.


----------



## billcushman

copter74, your problem is the result of your unsuitable settings. For an easy solution I suggest that you select the *Eneloop StdAA program and don't change any parameters*. It should work perfectly.


----------



## DeeFff

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Does anybody know of a brand of permanent marker that won't rub off, I mark the capacity of my cells, I have 3 different brands of permanent maker and they all just rub off just with my hands when i pick up the cells


I have tried many different permanent markers on my batteries over the years, only to find none of them permanent, so I don't have a direct answer to your dilemma. But a Brother P-touch labeler does the trick quite nicely:




It's more legible than my iffy handwriting, thin enough to not cause problems in any of my lights, and is removable if needed.

HTH


----------



## copter74

Thank you

No I have no problem with the parameters or the manual for the MC3000 I confess to not having read lol
I work in electronics and computer science for 25 year.
I bought LSD for their benefits.
At first I thought their low internal resistance would pose problems for the detection of Delta peak so I increased the load up to 1A and always the same.
Usually I charge my Ni-MH / Ni-CD on other chargers but I need another.
Lately we loaned me a charger bc-700, it was expected that I buy this one but I'm a geek lol
I always loaded all my my Ni-Cd and NiMH 15 mV and 3 mV between 7mV on many different chargers (I make modelisme) and never any problem of detection, even by charging 80 mA 0.1C my Ni-CD

The screenshot is for Ni-CD 800mA ...
Why do you find it high 15 mV for Ni-CD?

The BC-700 I loaded closer to what is recommended for my batteries.
NiMH LSD 2300 mA => 460mA / 7h (therefore 500mA on BC-700)
NiCd 800 mA => 160mA / 7h (so 200 mA on 700-BC)

The detection on all my other chargers is effective .... I own Power LAB 8 Graupner ULTRAMAT, etc ....
On the same MC3000 to increase the load to heat the battery to increase the internal resistance for improved website detection does not change anything that is still haphazard.
I must on the MC3000 activated the safety timer and ability, I ca not find normal for a charger at this price and also evolved.

I launched a test by loading the NICD 800mA (Dv on 7mV and load 160mA) without security ... I watch the curve :-/
I'll try the Eneloop AA std fashion but I find the detection really very insensitive and unrealistic ..
If you do not have problem when I fell on the wrong charger.

My FW version is 1.02
My HW version is 1.04


----------



## kreisl

copter74 said:


> Thank you
> 
> No I have no problem with the parameters or the manual for the MC3000 I confess to not having read lol
> I work in electronics and computer science for 25 year.
> I bought LSD for their benefits.
> At first I thought their low internal resistance would pose problems for the detection of Delta peak so I increased the load up to 1A and always the same.
> Usually I charge my Ni-MH / Ni-CD on other chargers but I need another.
> Lately we loaned me a charger bc-700, it was expected that I buy this one but I'm a geek lol
> I always loaded all my my Ni-Cd and NiMH 15 mV and 3 mV between 7mV on many different chargers (I make modelisme) and never any problem of detection, even by charging 80 mA 0.1C my Ni-CD
> 
> The screenshot is for Ni-CD 800mA ...
> Why do you find it high 15 mV for Ni-CD?
> 
> The BC-700 I loaded closer to what is recommended for my batteries.
> NiMH LSD 2300 mA => 460mA / 7h (therefore 500mA on BC-700)
> NiCd 800 mA => 160mA / 7h (so 200 mA on 700-BC)
> 
> The detection on all my other chargers is effective .... I own Power LAB 8 Graupner ULTRAMAT, etc ....
> On the same MC3000 to increase the load to heat the battery to increase the internal resistance for improved website detection does not change anything that is still haphazard.
> I must on the MC3000 activated the safety timer and ability, I ca not find normal for a charger at this price and also evolved.
> 
> I launched a test by loading the NICD 800mA (Dv on 7mV and load 160mA) without security ... I watch the curve :-/
> If you do not have problem when I fell on the wrong charger.
> My FW version is 1.02
> My HW version is 1.04



i don't understand a word of coherence here, sorry. 
i am giving up.
sorry but i am no native English speaker so i don't understand the text perfectly well.
let us know which paragraph of the instruction manual you don't understand clearly and we'll try to rephrase.


----------



## DeJaVu

kreisl said:


> i don't understand a word of coherence here, sorry.
> i am giving up.
> sorry but i am no native English speaker so i don't understand the text perfectly well.
> let us know which paragraph of the instruction manual you don't understand clearly and we'll try to rephrase.


Sent you a pm...


----------



## tjh

copter74 said:


> Thank you
> 
> No I have no problem with the parameters or the manual for the MC3000 I confess to not having read lol
> I work in electronics and computer science for 25 year.
> I bought LSD for their benefits.
> At first I thought their low internal resistance would pose problems for the detection of Delta peak so I increased the load up to 1A and always the same.
> Usually I charge my Ni-MH / Ni-CD on other chargers but I need another.
> Lately we loaned me a charger bc-700, it was expected that I buy this one but I'm a geek lol
> I always loaded all my my Ni-Cd and NiMH 15 mV and 3 mV between 7mV on many different chargers (I make modelisme) and never any problem of detection, even by charging 80 mA 0.1C my Ni-CD
> 
> The screenshot is for Ni-CD 800mA ...
> Why do you find it high 15 mV for Ni-CD?
> 
> The BC-700 I loaded closer to what is recommended for my batteries.
> NiMH LSD 2300 mA => 460mA / 7h (therefore 500mA on BC-700)
> NiCd 800 mA => 160mA / 7h (so 200 mA on 700-BC)
> 
> The detection on all my other chargers is effective .... I own Power LAB 8 Graupner ULTRAMAT, etc ....
> On the same MC3000 to increase the load to heat the battery to increase the internal resistance for improved website detection does not change anything that is still haphazard.
> I must on the MC3000 activated the safety timer and ability, I ca not find normal for a charger at this price and also evolved.
> 
> I launched a test by loading the NICD 800mA (Dv on 7mV and load 160mA) without security ... I watch the curve :-/
> I'll try the Eneloop AA std fashion but I find the detection really very insensitive and unrealistic ..
> If you do not have problem when I fell on the wrong charger.
> 
> My FW version is 1.02
> My HW version is 1.04



Why do you feel that 15mV is a better setting than 3mv for an individual cell? I can understand larger number for a pack of cells in series, but that's not what is happening here.

I suspect your other chargers aren't terminating on -dV, rather their own internal time or Voltage triggers.

I've had this charger for 2 months now and it hasn't missed a single AA or AAA termination (using -dV) yet.

If you can justify why you think the (imho rather crazy) settings you're using should work, we'd love to understand. But they don't made sense to me for all that I've read about how -dV termination works.

Therefore I think the reason it doesn't terminate for you is due to incorrect settings.


----------



## T_zero

what is the current firmware version?

in terms of hardware the version is the same? or SkyRC have updated the MC3k?


----------



## kreisl

since market release Nov 2015 (v1.4 PCB) the hardware got updated for Feb 2016 production (v1.5 PCB) for the added FCC/CE certification. the current firmware is still v1.03 and it doesn't show the hardware version collectly: v1.5 PCB is shown as "v1.4" on the LCD in GSV. hopefully the new firmware can fix that info error on the lcd, see (k#40). the only way of knowing 100% for sure if you got the v1.5 PCB is by opening the charger.

every production batch might get minor improvements in the assembly (i.e. things which every early owner could do too by himself, called modding) but that doesn't increment the hardware version.

looks like the new fw won't be released this month. someone in this thread joked about IFA 2016 as release date lol


----------



## kappa7

Do you mean IFA 2016 in berlin in september??? I hope that we haven't to wait so much... I'm already a little tired to wait...:thumbsdow


----------



## Devon

kreisl said:


> since market release Nov 2015 (v1.4 PCB) the hardware got ...............
> 
> looks like the new fw won't be released this month. someone in this thread ............. IFA 2016 as release date.........../QUOTE]
> 
> Is that an announcement by the Secret Squirrel of the new improved firmware release date?
> 
> Awesome news Squirrel! !!!


----------



## kreisl

I had bought the 10180's months ago, hardly used them since, and always wanted to graph the discharge curves wiv mc3k. Back then PCLS wasn't reliable because of USB co-usage by my hp printer. Since DEX finally meets my personal requirements for serious logging, i went through with the tests of unused 10180 DQG batteries, successfully in one go. 

2 battery samples, A and B, both delivered together in 1 gb package months ago (see post#507).
program CYCLE C>D, N=1.
charge rate 0.05A (50mA), termination current 0.01A,
|discharge rate| 0.05A, 0.10A, 0.20A, 0.30A; cut-off 2.70V.
same mc3k slot used for all tests.
logger: DEX 3.2.5,
cross-checking and post-processing: Excel (https://www.sendspace.com/file/bydye6)
result: see pic







The tests were done in random order, i retested sample A several times before and after testing sample B. It's a fact that sample A has higher capacity than sample B, ~80mAh vs ~70mAh, which i find intriguing. That's that, i have no further use of the 10180 cells other than testing for the mc3k forum review. This post, as many other squirrel posts in this thread, would become part of the review.


----------



## DeJaVu

If you are discharging a battery at 2A and start charging different one in another slot, the discharge rate falls to 1A.
Only thing that comes to mind is that SkyRC did this out of thermal concerns, which in practice isnt an issue. So removing that limitation would be nice.
If posible add this to the list of suggestions.


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Deleted


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Does anybody know of a brand of permanent marker that won't rub off, I mark the capacity of my cells, I have 3 different brands of permanent maker and they all just rub off just with my hands when i pick up the cells
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John.



The Stabilo 'Write-4-All' pens are very good and I use them for all my permanent ink pen duties. I have written on my 18650 batteries literally months ago and handle them most days and the ink is nearly as good as the day it was applied, only slightly matted from handling.

http://www.staples.co.uk/write-4-all-fine-black/cbs/356864.html 


Try and find the 'Medium' size as it has a nice 1mm size tip.


Edit: Here's a pack of 3 Medium Black with a not extortionate price to go with them:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00NWD4NC8/


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Amazing Thank-you, I will order a 4 pack 

John



Rapster said:


> The Stabilo 'Write-4-All' pens are very good and I use them for all my permanent ink pen duties. I have written on my 18650 batteries literally months ago and handle them most days and the ink is nearly as good as the day it was applied, only slightly matted from handling.
> 
> http://www.staples.co.uk/write-4-all-fine-black/cbs/356864.html
> 
> 
> Try and find the 'Medium' size as it has a nice 1mm size tip.
> 
> 
> Edit: Here's a pack of 3 Medium Black with a not extortionate price to go with them:
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00NWD4NC8/


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Amazing Thank-you, I will order a 4 pack
> 
> John



Mind sharing where you found the 4-Pack, John?

I'm in the market for some more Medium Write-4-All's but do not want to purchase 10 of them and if 4 are the same or slightly higher than 3, well... 

Yeah, I'm careful with my money. :twothumbs


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sorry 3 pack it was the write-*4*-all that must have threw me.

Yeah, I'm careful with my money. :twothumbs[/QUOTE]


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Sorry 3 pack it was the write-*4*-all that must have threw me.
> 
> Yeah, I'm careful with my money. :twothumbs



Darn it, I was about to take you up on the offer of 5 for £4.64 or whatever it was, John. I wasn't able to reply when I saw your offer this morning (in a rush) and now you've removed it.

Someone beat me to it, John, or did you change your mind?

I'm not prying and you can freely tell me to go mind my own business. 

P.S. 3-Pack/4-Pack/Write-4-all, easy enough to confuse. :thumbsup:


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi.

Are you in the UK ?? as International postage via Royal Mail is Expensive.

I paid £8.53 for the 10 pack, So for 5 pen`s it`s £4.27 + 95p 1st or 74p for 2nd class postage.

I only accept paypal gift for payment.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CPNHNXC/

John.



Rapster said:


> Darn it, I was about to take you up on the offer of 5 for £4.64 or whatever it was, John. I wasn't able to reply when I saw your offer this morning (in a rush) and now you've removed it.
> 
> Someone beat me to it, John, or did you change your mind?
> 
> I'm not prying and you can freely tell me to go mind my own business.
> 
> P.S. 3-Pack/4-Pack/Write-4-all, easy enough to confuse. :thumbsup:


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Hi.
> 
> Are you in the UK ?? as International postage via Royal Mail is Expensive.
> 
> I paid £8.53 for the 10 pack, So for 5 pen`s it`s £4.27 + 95p 1st or 74p for 2nd class postage.
> 
> I only accept paypal gift for payment.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CPNHNXC/
> 
> John.



Know what? I'll just buy myself 10 also!

By the time the OTH, the kids and my neighbour has 'borrowed' one, I'll probably end up needing all 10 just so's I'm left with 5. 

Huge apologies for messing you about though, it's just that when I did the sums I found I may as well just buy the 10 since I'll probably (or someone else will) find good use for them. 

Peace bro'!

As my son would say... lol


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeah, At that price by the time you loose some, leave the tops of others, friends or kids eat them, you will be glad you bought 10 of them.

John.



Rapster said:


> Know what? I'll just buy myself 10 also!
> 
> By the time the OTH, the kids and my neighbour has 'borrowed' one, I'll probably end up needing all 10 just so's I'm left with 5.
> 
> Huge apologies for messing you about though, it's just that when I did the sums I found I may as well just buy the 10 since I'll probably (or someone else will) find good use for them.
> 
> Peace bro'!
> 
> As my son would say... lol


----------



## SilverFox

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello John,

There are times in a long thread where the topic drifts a little. Finding a way to label cells you have tested in order to keep track of them isn't an "extreme" drift.

To complete the discussion I would be interested in reports from others that have used the "Write-4-All" pens. Rapster seems to find that they work well... anyone else have a report?

As far as deleting posts, I am inclined to let them stand. However, you have the ability to edit your posts. Before you do I would be interested to hear from others that have used these pens. Keeping labels on cells is a constant battle and I am always looking for improvements.

Tom


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks Tom

*Anybody use a handheld label printer, are they cost effective or is it best to stick to permanent markers.
*
On the subject of permanent marker, some seem not to be black but dark purple 

John.



SilverFox said:


> Hello John,
> 
> There are times in a long thread where the topic drifts a little. Finding a way to label cells you have tested in order to keep track of them isn't an "extreme" drift.
> 
> To complete the discussion I would be interested in reports from others that have used the "Write-4-All" pens. Rapster seems to find that they work well... anyone else have a report?
> 
> As far as deleting posts, I am inclined to let them stand. However, you have the ability to edit your posts. Before you do I would be interested to hear from others that have used these pens. Keeping labels on cells is a constant battle and I am always looking for improvements.
> 
> Tom


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> *Anybody use a handheld label printer, are they cost effective or is it best to stick to permanent markers.
> *



I have a Dymo LabelManager 160. The edges of the labels come off soon on their own. I've switched to using markers.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I uses Brother labelling system on most of my batteries.
These cells has been into and out of a lot of chargers:


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi Henrik

What is the model number of that Brother labelling system that you use if you don't mind me asking as you say the labels stay stuck to the cells, when maukka says the dynamo labels start peeling away.

EDIT: The Brother PT-90 seems alright, the compatible tapes are quite cheap.

Thanks

John.



HKJ said:


> I uses Brother labelling system on most of my batteries.
> These cells has been into and out of a lot of chargers:


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> What is the model number of that Brother labelling system that you use if you don't mind me asking as you say the labels stay stuck to the cells, when maukka says the dynamo labels start peeling away.



I use Tz tapes, the one on batteries are 6mm wide and I can select short run-in and run-out on the machine I use.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Still waiting for my MC3000 shipped on the 23rd from GB, I found this power switch similar to the one kreisl posted, does this one look like it will work? it`s only $1.73 from Aliexpress.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Powe..._9&btsid=1bdcb6d8-4cfe-4efb-ac47-7d69afeb6bac

John.


----------



## chemEJoe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Still waiting for my MC3000 shipped on the 23rd from GB, I found this power switch similar to the one kreisl posted, does this one look like it will work? it`s only $1.73 from Aliexpress.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Powe..._9&btsid=1bdcb6d8-4cfe-4efb-ac47-7d69afeb6bac
> 
> John.



It does look like it could fit the wall to transformer connection. You might look at the wall socket side as that would hang on the wall and have better heat dissipation if that is any concern. I have a few of those around the house to turn different appliances off (wifi, printer, etc.). For me, it's better than sitting on the carpet or desktop.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just got my MC3000 from Gear Best, it took 9 days to get to me in the UK and it only cost me £65 no import charges 

One negative so far my AAA nimh battery`s barley make contact with the bottom negative slider stud which could have been lowered a bit.

My MC3000 has firmware v1.03 and hardware v1.04

John.


----------



## tripplec

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just checked that connection on my SH4 with my AAA Eneloop as well. It contacts ok because of the flat tail of the battery. the +ve end is no problem because of the elongated contact vertically in the charger.


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Just got my MC3000 from Gear Best, it took 9 days to get to me in the UK and it only cost me £65 no import charges
> 
> One negative so far my AAA nimh battery`s barley make contact with the bottom negative slider stud which could have been lowered a bit.
> 
> My MC3000 has firmware v1.03 and hardware v1.04
> 
> John.



Mines the same John, but it's fine on all the aaa Eneloops I use. Can fully seat them and they all still charge fine....

I always charge at 0.3C and often less. It always terminates correctly at 0.3C and even at 0.2C no problems terminating most of the time.....0.1C it misses 99% of the time, as it should. 

I don't discharge the batteries all that much in the charger but no problems there either.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks Devon, I think you are right, I just have to double check the connection before i start the charge.

When i got my MC3000 i cleaned all the charger contacts with "caig progold contact enhancer" before i charged any cells.

I was charging 3 old nimh C Powerizer 5000mah using a cycle test, after an hour or so i heard and alarm and one of the c showed an connection break?

Thanks

John.


----------



## tripplec

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Many times I roll the cell in the charge slot while running. I never had a connection break. Odd nor have I ever heard or seen contact cleaner needed. If it were going to be that sensitive a plated contact point would be needed.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



> I was charging 3 old nimh C Powerizer 5000mah using a cycle test, after an hour or so i heard and alarm and one of the c showed an connection break


it has been fixed in fw1.04

i am testing fw 1.04e, the latest beita.

more of the listed ideas will be included in fw1.04 looks like. still unclear how the update will be made available. pcls procedure maybe not anymore.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It would be nice if you could put the firmware on an usbstick and update using the usb charging port if it has an data connection.

2nd set of battery`s on the day i got my mc3000 and i find a fault, just my luck.

John.


----------



## tripplec

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Send it to COVENTRY

I believe thats where the rubbish goes!!!

LOL


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Thanks Devon, I think you are right, I just have to double check the connection before i start the charge.
> 
> When i got my MC3000 i cleaned all the charger contacts with "caig progold contact enhancer" before i charged any cells.
> 
> I was charging 3 old nimh C Powerizer 5000mah using a cycle test, after an hour or so i heard and alarm and one of the c showed an connection break?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John.



Charging old NiMH if they are stuffed can often lead to the connection break error msg. This I have found to be a fault with the battery and not the charger...maybe it should give a msg "Buy some new batteries, English man! "


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Flashlight or Battery or Chargers, Come on look at my sig i am doing my best 

John.


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Charging old NiMH if they are stuffed can often lead to the connection break error msg. This I have found to be a fault with the battery and not the charger...maybe it should give a msg "Buy some new batteries, English man! "



How dare you - off to the Tower you go!


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Anybody tried one of these cheap voltage references, are they worth buying to calibrate the MC3000 or check you DMM`s accuracy.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-5v..._9&btsid=f1773d26-3fed-4fea-ad95-72feaf9effb9

John.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Nobody else reading this thread any more I have questions. 

I tried doing a breaking in on my C nimh 5000mah I set the capacity to 6000mah so they would not be undercharged but on discharge they got down to 1.01v and the discharged capacity was around 4500mah but the discharge rate was so low and getting lower after a few hours the capacity got to approx 5000mah the voltage was still showing 1.01v and the discharge currant was at approx 30ma and I though maybe the discharge would continue until it reached the 6000mah I had set and that would be a long time if ever so I pulled the cells. 

The only thing I set on the default break-in was nimh and 6000mah for my 5000mah cells so they would not be undercharged. 

So what happened, should I just have left the cells to finish?

Thanks 

John


----------



## DeeFff

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> ...
> So what happened, should I just have left the cells to finish?



Yep - you were so close! 

Break-In (among other things) discharges at 0.2C down to 1.0V. If you waited another -0.01V the discharge would have finished - see page 19 (user manual) for all the gory details.

Try again and see what happens 

P.S. - For Break-In, set NOMINAL to the actual battery capacity (without a cushion like you might do for charging). Bumping NOMINAL in this case might overcook your batteries somewhat.

P.P.S. - Yeah, what kreisl said - I missed where you noted the discharge current dropping :duh2:


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Anybody tried one of these cheap voltage references, are they worth buying to calibrate the MC3000 or check you DMM`s accuracy.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-5v..._9&btsid=f1773d26-3fed-4fea-ad95-72feaf9effb9



More useful: for $5 you can buy a very accurate 5 digit panel voltmeter 0-4.3000V-33.000V. Typically these are off by no more than 1mV in their lower range 0-4.3V, and the 0.1mV resolution there can prove very handy (e.g. giving some intuition on battery drain rate). They employ an 18bit ADC (Microchip MCP3421). For further details see this EEVBlog thread, where you'll find many reports of users impressed by the accuracy. They are a steal at $5.
*Update *These have relatively low input impedance, about 350K see here.



,


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

discharge rate should be constant in breakin mode, not getting lower. maybe d.reduce option was accidentally active or activated? you might have found a new bug


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

DREDUCE was set to off, all other setting were default, setting capacity to 6000mah, when the cells were 5000mah may have been the problem.

I have done a factory default and will do an break-in again with the same setting with capacity set to 5000mah, see you in a day or so. 

These are old battery could this be a factor.

Thanks

John



kreisl said:


> discharge rate should be constant in breakin mode, not getting lower. maybe d.reduce option was accidentally active or activated? you might have found a new bug


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Those panel meters look good, and at a great price, but i needed a voltage reference to calibrate, but i can use the panel meter to check the accuracy of the voltage reference.

Thanks

John. 



Gauss163 said:


> More useful: for $5 you can buy a very accurate 5 digit panel voltmeter 0-4.3000V-33.000V. Typically these are off by no more than 1mV in their lower range 0-4.3V, and the 0.1mV resolution there can prove very handy (e.g. giving some intuition on battery drain rate). They employ an 18bit ADC (Microchip MCP3421). For further details see this EEVBlog thread, where you'll find many reports of users impressed by the accuracy. They are a steal at $5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ,


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It was at 1.01-1.02v for hours, I have set the capacity to true 5000mah of the cell and try again as the 6000mah 20% extra may have been the problem.

Thanks

John.



DeeFff said:


> Yep - you were so close!
> 
> Break-In (among other things) discharges at 0.2C down to 1.0V. If you waited another -0.01V the discharge would have finished - see page 19 (user manual) for all the gory details.
> 
> Try again and see what happens
> 
> P.S. - For Break-In, set NOMINAL to the actual battery capacity (without a cushion like you might do for charging). Bumping NOMINAL in this case might overcook your batteries somewhat.
> 
> P.P.S. - Yeah, what kreisl said - I missed where you noted the discharge current dropping :duh2:


----------



## Ammitz

After looking at this charger i finally made my mind. 

i dont need the charger but i want it  so i bought it.. woohoo


----------



## Trancersteve

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have ordered one of these after misplacing my C9000 in a house move.

Looking forward to receiving it, it is one hell of an advanced charger. 

Just now I received a SMS from DHL, been stung by customs unfortunately (£23), makes the flash sale not so flashy!


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ordered mine from Gear Best for £65, It shipped with a value of $22 it was delivered by Yodel and i did not pay any vat or duty.

Was it royal mail that charged you? as they are red hot at doing that.

John.



Trancersteve said:


> I have ordered one of these after misplacing my C9000 in a house move.
> 
> Looking forward to receiving it, it is one hell of an advanced charger.
> 
> Just now I received a SMS from DHL, been stung by customs unfortunately (£23), makes the flash sale not so flashy!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Trancersteve said:


> , been stung by customs unfortunately (£23), makes the flash sale not so flashy!


does uk belong to eu? 

russian, uk , and all other non eu shoppers can afaik order MC3000 eu tax free from the eu eagtac distributor 
ru.nkon.nl, it's the place where i get my eagtac and battery stuff from, they sit in de Netherlands and mostly sell to other businesses like retailers

hah i've seen already the first mc3k clone in the planning, also by a hobby charger company, die chinesen sind echt unmoglich omg lol won't say though who it is hhh :devil:


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If the declared value of the item is over £15 this includes post and packing, then you have to pay VAT at 20% plus an £8 handling charge if royal mail delivers, and i read the other day that this still happens if you order from an EU country, the UK is a member for the moment.

Some sellers lie about the value or do not include a invoice or value on the outside of the parcel so you do not get charged VAT as it cannot be calculated.

John



kreisl said:


> does uk belong to eu?
> 
> russian, uk , and all other non eu shoppers can afaik order MC3000 eu tax free from the eu eagtac distributor
> ru.nkon.nl, it's the place where i get my eagtac and battery stuff from, they sit in de Netherlands and mostly sell to other businesses like retailers
> 
> hah i've seen already the first mc3k clone in the planning, also by a hobby charger company, die chinesen sind echt unmoglich omg lol won't say though who it is hhh :devil:


----------



## Ammitz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Ordered mine from Gear Best for £65, It shipped with a value of $22 it was delivered by Yodel and i did not pay any vat or duty.
> 
> Was it royal mail that charged you? as they are red hot at doing that.
> 
> John.




Got my confirmation mail today from gearbest.. they are sending to Denmark via PostNL..


----------



## Trancersteve

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Ordered mine from Gear Best for £65, It shipped with a value of $22 it was delivered by Yodel and i did not pay any vat or duty.
> 
> Was it royal mail that charged you? as they are red hot at doing that.
> 
> John.



DHL charged me, I have probably brought this on myself by selecting the fastest delivery method, and choosing my work address as the point of delivery.



kreisl said:


> does uk belong to eu?
> 
> russian, uk , and all other non eu shoppers can afaik order MC3000 eu tax free from the eu eagtac distributor
> ru.nkon.nl, it's the place where i get my eagtac and battery stuff from, they sit in de Netherlands and mostly sell to other businesses like retailers
> 
> hah i've seen already the first mc3k clone in the planning, also by a hobby charger company, die chinesen sind echt unmoglich omg lol won't say though who it is hhh :devil:



The UK is apart of the EU, for now .


----------



## Ammitz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> does uk belong to eu?
> 
> russian, uk , and all other non eu shoppers can afaik order MC3000 eu tax free from the eu eagtac distributor
> ru.nkon.nl, it's the place where i get my eagtac and battery stuff from, they sit in de Netherlands and mostly sell to other businesses like retailers
> 
> hah i've seen already the first mc3k clone in the planning, also by a hobby charger company, die chinesen sind echt unmoglich omg lol won't say though who it is hhh :devil:



Prices on this website do not include VAT. Please go to http://eu.nkon.nl/ for prices with VAT. ru.nkon.nl is a special website for customers outside the EU, they don't have to pay VAT.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I ordered an led projector from lightinthebox.com (netherlands) for £30 , I got a card from Royal Mail saying i had to pay vat+handling charge, but i had cancelled the order so i just left it to be returned to lightinthebox if i did not collect it within a month.

John



kreisl said:


> does uk belong to eu?
> 
> russian, uk , and all other non eu shoppers can afaik order MC3000 eu tax free from the eu eagtac distributor
> ru.nkon.nl, it's the place where i get my eagtac and battery stuff from, they sit in de Netherlands and mostly sell to other businesses like retailers
> 
> hah i've seen already the first mc3k clone in the planning, also by a hobby charger company, die chinesen sind echt unmoglich omg lol won't say though who it is hhh :devil:


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Those panel meters look good, and at a great price, but i needed a voltage reference to calibrate, but i can use the panel meter to check the accuracy of the voltage reference.



What exactly do you hope to achieve? The accuracy of a voltmeter in a (dis)charger is severely limited by the extreme thermal environment. To achieve high accuracy would require a voltage reference with very low temperature coefficient (unlikely due to high expense) combined with extremely careful thermal design. But, as we saw in prior posts, the thermal design is quite poor, so it is likely that this will take a large toll on voltage accuracy. 

I wouldn't be surprised if - in spite of the higher _resolution _- the _accuracy _is not much better than much cheaper analyzing chargers like the Opus BT-C3100. It might even be worse if no attention was paid to these matters during design. In poor designs, the least significant digit(s) of the voltmeter essentially act like a thermometer - being highly correlated to temperature (which varies greatly in a (dis)charger).


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> What exactly do you hope to achieve? The accuracy of a voltmeter in a (dis)charger is severely limited by the extreme thermal environment. To achieve high accuracy would require a voltage reference with very low temperature coefficient (unlikely due to high expense) combined with extremely careful thermal design. But, as we saw in prior posts, the thermal design is quite poor, so it is likely that this will take a large toll on voltage accuracy.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if - in spite of the higher _resolution _- the _accuracy _is not much better than much cheaper analyzing chargers like the Opus BT-C3100. It might even be worse if no attention was paid to these matters during design.



thanks for your concerns

we heard you

moving on

bye


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if - in spite of the higher _resolution _- the _accuracy _is not much better than much cheaper analyzing chargers like the Opus BT-C3100.



Usually, your comments are relevant...but this one....


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Usually, your comments are relevant...but this one....



The point is quite relevant: it requires high-precision components and careful attention to design to achieve good voltage accuracy in environments with extreme temperature variations. Both of these typically come at great cost - much greater than the cost that differentiates the MC3000 vs. other consumer-level analyzing chargers. 

Some readers may not realize the technical challenges involved in getting mV and better voltage accuracy in such contexts. A good place to start learning about some of these matters is Keithley's Low Level measurements Handbook, which is freely available via the link. Also worth perusing are various threads on the AD584 voltage references on EEVBlog, where one can observe the volt nuts disease in full bloom (tread cautiously - it is highly contagious and there is no known cure!).

But this is a moot point anyhow since - as I stressed before - 99.99% of hobbyists don't require extreme voltage accuracy. There is no need here to be nuts about volts. Certainly it is _not _required to competently and safely charge batteries.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> The point is quite relevant: it requires high-precision components and careful attention to design to achieve good voltage accuracy in environments with extreme temperature variations. Both of these typically come at great cost - much greater than the cost that differentiates the MC3000 vs. other consumer-level analyzing chargers.
> 
> Some readers may not realize the technical challenges involved in getting mV and better voltage accuracy in such contexts. A good place to start learning about some of these matters is Keithley's Low Level measurements Handbook, which is freely available via the link.
> 
> But this is a moot point anyhow since - as I stressed before - 99.99% of hobbyists don't require extreme voltage accuracy. Certainly it is _not _required to competently and safely charge batteries.



high precision electronics is dependent on temperature

i think we got it

i think it's also mentioned in the manual

@gauss i think we're ready to move on

are you?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi.

Thanks for the Info your help is appreciated.

Basically i have around 5-6 DMM but most are old and i dont trust the accuracy so i am looking to check them out, that`s why i am looking for an accurate voltage source, I am looking at getting an UNI-T UT61E DMM as it gets good reviews when i have the money.

I only need accuracy to 2-3 points, I just want to make sure my gear is not way off.

Keep up the suggestions :thumbsup: 

John.



Gauss163 said:


> What exactly do you hope to achieve? The accuracy of a voltmeter in a (dis)charger is severely limited by the extreme thermal environment. To achieve high accuracy would require a voltage reference with very low temperature coefficient (unlikely due to high expense) combined with extremely careful thermal design. But, as we saw in prior posts, the thermal design is quite poor, so it is likely that this will take a large toll on voltage accuracy.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if - in spite of the higher _resolution _- the _accuracy _is not much better than much cheaper analyzing chargers like the Opus BT-C3100. It might even be worse if no attention was paid to these matters during design. In poor designs, the least significant digit(s) of the voltmeter essentially act like a thermometer - being highly correlated to temperature (which varies greatly in a (dis)charger).


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I know what you mean. It is the affirmation of the accurancy of the Opus vs MC3000 I don't agree. 

Ok Kreisl, asked like that, I put my switch off...I'll go away for two days before returning.[emoji56]


----------



## kreisl

i'll join you
let's go camping in the woods, with flashlights, hot dogs and beer

:twothumbs


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Some readers may not realize the technical challenges involved in getting mV and better voltage accuracy in such contexts.



millivolt is trivial today, any cheap meter can do it with good precision, but microvolt is hard (Some physical laws are doing that).
What is required to charge LiIon batteries is voltages within 1% and any meter or charger that is calibrated can easily do that (Doing it without calibration can be tricky as can be seen on some chargers).


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> gyzmo plz could you stop feeding the *****s?



Yes, we know well by now that you erroneously deem any critical discussion of your DreamCharger to be ****ing, and actively work to suppress it. How unfortunate that you have such a deep personal attachment to the device.

Please keep in mind that many readers here are new to the world of analyzing chargers, so discussion of such technical matters may prove highly enlightening.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> millivolt is trivial today.



Not in environments with large temperature oscillations, and in devices with budget-limited imprecise components (which was the specified context).


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Basically i have around 5-6 DMM but most are old and i dont trust the accuracy so i am looking to check them out, that`s why i am looking for an accurate voltage source, I am looking at getting an UNI-T UT61E DMM as it gets good reviews when i have the money.
> 
> I only need accuracy to 2-3 points, I just want to make sure my gear is not way off.



You can use the AD584x voltage references to calibrate your meters to a few mV, but unless they are high quality DMMs they will drift heavily with temperature, humidity, vibration, etc. 

For example, if you peruse the EEVBlog threads on the UNI-T 61E you will discover many complaints about it drifting out of calibration. Iirc it was speculated that this is primarily due to vibration causing the VDC trimpot to shift. Higher quality meters eliminate this by eliminating trimpots, instead using (closed-case) software calibration. But they still suffer drift due to temperature, etc.

Regarding the AD584x devices: be sure to get the AD584L version, since this chip has a lower temperature coefficient than the H,J,K versions (5ppm/°_C_ vs 30 or 15ppm/°_C_). Many eBay sellers don't specify the version, or don't know the difference, often shipping the K even though their description and photos depict the L version (recently many boards have changed from L to K, perhaps because the supply of pulled L's has run low). Also beware that the calibration certificates are often a year or more old, so it is of limited value for voltage transfer purposes.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Not in environments with large temperature oscillations, and in devices with budget-limited imprecise components (which was the specified context).



Sorry, but I do not see the problem. The Seebeck voltages will cancel each other out to some degree and getting precision with cheap parts is not uncommon today (Check the specifications for MCP3424 the ADC used).


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> You can use the AD584x voltage references to calibrate your meters to a few mV



That is very unlikely, except you know somebody that can measure the chip for your.
The problem with all reference chips is initial precision, in professional settings that is not important, because it is handled during calibration. To get around that problem you can buy a reference from voltagestandard.com, they do the initial calibration, but the price is significantly higher than ebay (Still very cheap for a reference).



Gauss163 said:


> but unless they are high quality DMMs they will drift heavily with temperature, humidity, vibration, etc.
> 
> For example, if you peruse the EEVBlog threads on the UNI-T 61E you will discover many complaints about it drifting out of calibration. Iirc it was speculated that this is primarily due to vibration causing the VDC trimpot to shift. Higher quality meters eliminate this by eliminating trimpots, instead using (closed-case) software calibration. But they still suffer drift due to temperature, etc.



My UT61E is about 0.1% out from 1 to 10 volt. It has not been used much and has not see any serious temperature cycles (It has stayed in my lab).


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> That is very unlikely, except you know somebody that can measure the chip for your.



Not only is it likely, but it has been done by myself and many others, e.g. see the eevblog threads I linked above. It requires only that the calibration certificate is accurate enough (for said purposes). They were on mine, and on many others reported on eevblog. Certainly if one wants further accuracy (and NIST traceability) then something like voltagestandard.com is one way to go, but that comes at 10x the cost - which is probably not worth it to most users. Note: here (and above) my remarks are specific to the OP, viz. checking the calibration of the MC3000, i.e. 0-5V DC to within a couple mV.



HKJ said:


> My UT61E is about 0.1% out from 1 to 10 volt. It has not been used much and has not see any serious temperature cycles (It has stayed in my lab).



You can indeed calibrate them to within spec (0.1%+2d) - even better. But the problem is that they have a knack of drifting out of spec (due to trimpot vibration?). There are _many _complaints about it on eevblog, e.g. here. Maybe yours didn't drift because you haven't used it much, so the trimpot has not suffered much vibration. Put it in your car and drive over some dirt roads and report back.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Sorry, but I do not see the problem. The Seebeck voltages will cancel each other out to some degree and getting precision with cheap parts is not uncommon today (Check the specifications for MCP3424 the ADC used).



I mentioned that ADC above so of course I know the specs. But they are not as good as some earlier datasheets claim e.g. see here. Maybe you were looking at the older datasheets?

I'm not aware of any inexpensive voltmeter components that can adequately handle the extreme thermal environments of a consumer-level (dis)charger (except with _extremely_ careful thermal design). What do you have in mind? Did you test this in your review of the MC3000?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Not only is it likely, but it has been done by myself and many others, e.g. see the eevblog threads I linked above.



I do not need to see the eevblog thread, I have a couple of them myself, some of them included notes on actual values (That value was within about a 1mV), others where faulty and the output value was way off, not enough to know for sure with a cheap DMM, but with my meters it was easy to see.




Gauss163 said:


> It requires only that the calibration certificate is accurate enough (for said purposes). They were on mine, and on many others reported on eevblog.



There may be a 80% change you get a fairly precise reference, with voltagestandard it is much more likely.



Gauss163 said:


> Certainly if one wants further accuracy (and NIST traceability) then something like voltagestandard.com is one way to go, but that comes at 10x the cost - which is probably not worth it to most users.



I would more think about the confidence in the calibration.



Gauss163 said:


> Note: here (and above) my remarks are specific to the OP, viz. checking the calibration of the MC3000, i.e. 0-5V DC to within a couple mV.



Two fairly new DMM (Preferable different brands) that shows the same value can also be expected to be fairly precise.



Gauss163 said:


> You can indeed calibrate them to within spec (0.1%+2d) - even better. But the problem is that they have a knack of drifting out of spec (due to trimpot vibration?). There are _many _complaints about it on eevblog. Maybe yours didn't drift because you haven't used it much, so the trimpot has not suffered much vibration. Put it in your car and drive over some dirt roads and report back.



My guess would be that dropping it on the floor is a major reason to spoil the calibration.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> I mentioned that ADC above so of course I know the specs. But they are not as good as some earlier datasheets claim e.g. see here. Maybe you were looking at the older datasheets?



The current datasheet list a "Gain Error" that include reference and PGA as typical 0.05% max 0.35% for -40C to 85C



Gauss163 said:


> I'm not aware of any inexpensive voltmeter components that can adequately handle the extreme thermal environments of a consumer-level (dis)charger (except with _extremely_ careful thermal design). What do you have in mind? Did you test this in your review of the MC3000?



The thermal environment is not that bad in the charger, the chips are not place at the heatsink, but some distance away and the heatsink is limited to 85C.
I did not test how it handles measurement when it gets hot, but I am sure it does considerable better than other chargers, that usual has a pile of resistors distributed on the circuit board, to handle the discharge.

I realised that I do have some numbers. My discharge with 4x18650 at 1A has 5mA variation in current, i.e. 0.5%


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> I do not need to see the eevblog thread, I have a couple of them myself, some of them included notes on actual values (That value was within about a 1mV), others where faulty and the output value was way off, not enough to know for sure with a cheap DMM, but with my meters it was easy to see.



I too have a few and they support my claims - as do the many others reported on eevblog. Sorry to hear you received a faulty unit. This appears to be quite atypical based on reports of others.



HKJ said:


> There may be a 80% change you get a fairly precise reference, with voltagestandard it is much more likely.



Where did that 80% guesstimate come from? It seems way too low. Yours is the only report I have seen of a faulty unit, and I've probably seen reports on about 50 or more units both online and offline.



HKJ said:


> Two fairly new DMM (Preferable different brands) that shows the same value can also be expected to be fairly precise.



Once a friend made similar remarks to me. He had a new UT61 and CenTech that both were in close agreement in one range, so he confidently made the leap-of-faith inference that they were both accurate. But when I tested them for him they were both out of spec in that range. What are the odds of that? Hard to say without doing a rather sophisticated probabilistic analysis. Guesses usually are quite unreliable in matters like this. 



HKJ said:


> My guess would be that dropping it on the floor is a major reason to spoil the calibration.



I don't see you point. Many users on eevblog reported calibration drift on their UT61E. Your experience differs on your little-used UT61E. Are you proposing to ignore all of that data by guessing that it might be caused by abuse?


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The thermal environment is not that bad in the charger, the chips are not place at the heatsink, but some distance away and the heatsink is limited to 85C. I did not test how it handles measurement when it gets hot, but I am sure it does considerable better than other chargers, that usual has a pile of resistors distributed on the circuit board, to handle the discharge.



Let me know when you have some solid data to back up those guesses. As we saw above, guesses are not always accurate. 

For starters, what are the ADC and voltage references used in the MC3000, what is the temp coefficient, and what temperature ranges did you measure?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Let me know when you have some solid data to back up those guesses. As we saw above, guesses are not always accurate.



I have already posted some in the last post.



Gauss163 said:


> For starters, what are the ADC and voltage references used in the MC3000, what is the temp coefficient, and what temperature ranges did you measure?



MCP3424 as I wrote above.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> I too have a few and they support my claims - as do the many others reported on eevblog. Sorry to hear you received a faulty unit. This appears to be quite atypical based on reports of others.
> 
> Where did that 80% guesstimate come from? It seems way too low. Yours is the only report I have seen of a faulty unit, and I've probably seen reports on about 50 or more units both online and offline.



Based on my own experience 80% is optimistic, I had two faulty out of 7 and one without reference data. This means that a total of 4 out of 7 could be used for calibration within about a mV, this is not good odds if you only have one cheap meter you want checked.




Gauss163 said:


> Once a friend made similar remarks to me. He had a new UT61 and CenTech that both were in close agreement in one range, so he confidently made the leap-of-faith inference that they were both accurate. But when I tested them for him they were both out of spec in that range. What are the odds of that? Hard to say without doing a rather sophisticated probabilistic analysis. Guesses usually are quite unreliable in matters like this.



The question is where the odds are best: Two meters or a meter and a cheap reference.



Gauss163 said:


> I don't see you point. Many users on eevblog reported calibration drift on their UT61E. Your experience differs. Are you proposing to ignore all of that data by guessing that it might be caused by abuse?



Trimpots has been used for many years, also in high precision equipment, they may not be perfect, but usual they works when you treat the equipment careful. Did anyone on eevblog say anything about how many times they had dropped their meter or done other rough stuff?
It is not that I trust a cheap meter to stay in calibration, but there are no law saying it will go out of calibration.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> MCP3424 as I wrote above.



Ah, your remark refers to an MCP3424 chip in the MC3K, not the similar-named MCP3421 chip in the $5 voltmeter. That was not clear.

But I still did not see any solid evidence. Only guesses.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> But I still did not see any solid evidence. Only guesses.



With measured 0.5% variation in current during a discharge it means that errors are 0.5% or lower.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Based on my own experience 80% is optimistic, I had two faulty out of 7 and one without reference data. This means that a total of 4 out of 7 could be used for calibration within about a mV, this is not good odds if you only have one cheap meter you want checked.



Stop dropping those fragile AD584 voltage references! But, more seriously, I'm curious to know more details on how those two units were faulty. It would have been helpful to mention this on eevblog so that we have more datapoints, esp. some negative ones.



HKJ said:


> Trimpots has been used for many years, also in high precision equipment, they may not be perfect, but usual they works when you treat the equipment careful. Did anyone on eevblog say anything about how many times they had dropped their meter or done other rough stuff?
> It is not that I trust a cheap meter to stay in calibration, but there are no law saying it will go out of calibration.



High-precision, high-quality trimpots were used in high-precision equipment (not to mention more careful design to alleviate any errors due to trimpot drift). The same is not true for entry-level DMMs like the UT61E, which often use cheap Chinese clones (e.g. Borns vs Bourns). Rarely are trimpots used in _modern _high-precision equipment.

Handheld DMMs are meant to be used in environments subject to vibration, so they should be designed with components that can adequately handle such. It comes as no surprise to me that your rarerly-used UT61E didn't drift since it probably was subject to far less vibration than those that were heavily used.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> With measured 0.5% variation in current during a discharge it means that errors are 0.5% or lower.


 
Where are the test results, and the descriptions of the methods used?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You guy`s want to get a thread of your own 

This is Way, Way, Above my head, so dont laugh, would a drop of thread lock on the side of the trimmers help to stop them drifting (mechanical) at all. :thinking:

John.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Stop dropping those fragile AD584 voltage references! But, more seriously, I'm curious to know more details on how those two units were faulty. It would have been helpful to mention this on eevblog so that we have more datapoints, esp. some negative ones.




All my reference was bought from different ebay dealers over a period of more than a year and they all got a test with a fluke 8846A.
The two defect ones was a bit out in the values, but the big red flag was the SD (Standard deviation) on the DMM, it was maybe 50 times larger than on the working units.
It has always been the plan to fix them, but I have never had time for it and I do not know where they are at the moment.



Gauss163 said:


> High-precision, high-quality trimpots were used in high-precision equipment (not to mention more careful design to alleviate any errors due to trimpot drift). The same is not true for entry-level DMMs like the UT61E, which often use cheap Chinese clones (e.g. Borns vs Bourns). Rarely are trimpots used in _modern _high-precision equipment.
> 
> Handheld DMMs are meant to be used in environments subject to vibration, so they should be designed with components that can adequately handle such. It comes as no surprise to me that your rarerly-used UT61E didn't drift since it probably was subject to far less vibration than those that were heavily used.



Some handheld are designed for that, other are more for lab use.



Gauss163 said:


> Where are the test results, and the descriptions of the methods used?



The test result is the 5mA, it is from my discharge curve in the review (or the logfile for it). I do not see any reason to post a 18000 lines csv file, I do not do that for any of my reviews.
If you want to know more about methods used, read the links at the bottom of the review.

The 5mA is different between min/max for all 1 second values, I do also have a value with 120 samples running average, there the value is 3.6mA and that is probably a better value for estimating the temperature influence.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Nobody else reading this thread any more I have questions.
> 
> I tried doing a breaking in on my C nimh 5000mah I set the capacity to 6000mah so they would not be undercharged but on discharge they got down to 1.01v and the discharged capacity was around 4500mah but the discharge rate was so low and getting lower after a few hours the capacity got to approx 5000mah the voltage was still showing 1.01v and the discharge currant was at approx 30ma and I though maybe the discharge would continue until it reached the 6000mah I had set and that would be a long time if ever so I pulled the cells.
> 
> The only thing I set on the default break-in was nimh and 6000mah for my 5000mah cells so they would not be undercharged.
> 
> So what happened, should I just have left the cells to finish?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John



John, I have tested about 16 NiMH C cells in the MC3000. Six were EBL Brand and 10 were Imedion (Maha) brand. I used separate charge and discharge programs so I could record the correct WattHour readings using v1.03. All the batteries terminated properly at 1.00 volt very shortly after reading slightly above 1.00 volt. *I have no explanation for your results.* All the cells I tested were between 4000 and 4500 mph. If you run another test be sure you clean the battery contacts with DeOxit Gold before you insert them. Rotate them slightly to assure low contact resistance and check that the mΩ readings look normal.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> You guy`s want to get a thread of your own



There are a couple of discussions in this thread that would benefit from their own thread.



TinderBox (UK) said:


> This is Way, Way, Above my head, so dont laugh, would a drop of thread lock on the side of the trimmers help to stop them drifting (mechanical) at all. :thinking:




I have frequently seen it done with nail polish, if recalibration is needed it is fairly easy to break.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> My guess would be that dropping it on the floor is a major reason to spoil the calibration.



Btw, recently I noticed a very surprising online example of UT61E calibration drift. Martin Lorton (MJLorton) from eevblog did some YouTube video reviews on the UT61E, including a calibration against a PentaRef from voltagestandard.com. Later he did a long term followup review on the UT61E. While watching these reviews back-to-back I noticed the very surprising fact that his UT61E had somehow managed to drift back to the exact same values that it had before Martin had calibrated it, viz. 0.2496, 1.4989, 4.995, 7.743, 9.942. You can easily confirm that in a few minutes by following the two prior links - they take you straight to the pertinent parts of each video.

When I informed Martin about this he replied that he got a good chuckle observing that, and he mentioned that he thought the odds of that were fairly slim. 

That shows just how unintuitive these matters can be - even to someone who has reviewed many DMMs. How in the world did that DMM manage to drift back to the exact same values it had before calibration? What could explain that? Is there a "sweet spot" on the trimpot that it settles into after vibration? Was it just a bizarre coincidence?

Now if you still insist on writing that off to user abuse (dropped DMMs) then that is your prerogative. But perhaps seeing it with your own eyes may help to convince you that the true answer is much more complex than that (and would be interesting to know).


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> would a drop of thread lock on the side of the trimmers help to stop them drifting (mechanical) at all. :thinking:



Here are things I've heard some folks use: nail polish, glptol, GLPT insulating varnish, etc. That should be enough keywords to permit web searches to locate further info on this topic.

But there is more to it than just stopping the screw from moving, e.g. vibration can cause the wiper to wear on the resistive element, which can alter the resistance.


----------



## stoli67

Is there anything new on the horizon or is the MC3000 still the latest and greatest one?

I have two xtar chargers VC4 and VP4 and a Sky RC Quattro B6AC... the last one is a beast of a charger but a little over kill for smaller cells!


I do like the look of the Bluetooth app on the MC3000.


----------



## Devon

stoli67 said:


> Is there anything new on the horizon or is the MC3000 still the latest and greatest one?
> 
> I have two xtar chargers VC4 and VP4 and a Sky RC Quattro B6AC... the last one is a beast of a charger but a little over kill for smaller cells!
> 
> 
> I do like the look of the Bluetooth app on the MC3000.



Double post, see below


----------



## Devon

stoli67 said:


> Is there anything new on the horizon or is the MC3000 still the latest and greatest one?
> 
> I have two xtar chargers VC4 and VP4 and a Sky RC Quattro B6AC... the last one is a beast of a charger but a little over kill for smaller cells!
> 
> 
> I do like the look of the Bluetooth app on the MC3000.



The bluetooth app is great and I prefer it to the user interface on the device.....I use a Samsung tablet and phone both Android.

I only use the device interface when I don't have a choice, but it's not too bad just a tad clunky.....the clincher is the bluetooth allows me to name my programs....easy!


----------



## Wild4fire

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



tjh said:


> [..]
> 
> *Bugs/Issues:
> *
> 
> The CSV data sometimes is saved with ;;;;;;;'s where numbers should be.
> Tim



Just received my MC3000 yesterday and a first test with two KeepPower 3400mAh Li-Ion cells went fine, however I ran into the issue you quoted. The CSV file saved has no actual data in it other than the delimiter ; 

Is there a workaround for this issue? I'd very much like to save my data from this first test.

HW version 1.4, firmware version 1.03, PCLS version 1.01

---

By the way, hello everyone! Thanks for the excellent posts in this thread. Lots of info to wade through...


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

Finaly finished an 16hr break-in but the value is wrong nearly 7500mah for 5000mah battery`s :thinking:

John.


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Finaly finished an 16hr break-in but the value is wrong nearly 7500mah for 5000mah battery`s :thinking:
> 
> John.



Break in gives an overcharge by design - so what you are seeing is spot on!


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Look at bug K1 on post number 6...


----------



## tjh

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



Minimoog said:


> Break in gives an overcharge by design - so what you are seeing is spot on!


Right, but a proper analyser should show the discharge capacity, not the charge capacity. This is a known bug, so known it's bug report number 1 on Kriesl's list (Post 6)


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

According to post 6 the break-in bug is fixed though not for me, what firmware is that, I am on v1.3

John.


----------



## tjh

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> According to post 6 the break-in bug is fixed though not for me, what firmware is that, I am on v1.3
> 
> John.


That's fixed in the upcoming 1.04


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

So any ETA on when v1.04 is going to be released?

John



tjh said:


> That's fixed in the upcoming 1.04


----------



## Devon

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> So any ETA on when v1.04 is going to be released?
> 
> John


Rumour has it it will be launched at the electronics expo in Berlin.

Edit. When discharging it will give you the correct Ah discharged.....when charging it will give you the correct Ah transfered to the battery.....and they're good batteries by the way. I have just revived a pair of D cells that have been in their shrink wrap for about 10 years, only minor reduction in capacity.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

They are old but have had very little use, and i was only getting around 1800mah from them last time i tested them, I have 10 of them but the top of the wrapper splits after a while and i have had to glue them, I have them on discharge now so i will see the capacity soon.

John.



Devon said:


> Rumour has it it will be launched at the electronics expo in Berlin.
> 
> Edit. When discharging it will give you the correct Ah discharged.....when charging it will give you the correct Ah transfered to the battery.....and they're good batteries by the way. I have just revived a pair of D cells that have been in their shrink wrap for about 10 years, only minor reduction in capacity.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Finaly finished an 16hr break-in but the value is wrong nearly 7500mah for 5000mah battery`s :thinking:
> 
> John.



quiz

5000mAh NOMINAL, 0.1C charge rate, 16hours. In my books that's 8000mAh.

Why does the device measure 7590mAh only ?

And is it an accurate value per se ?


----------



## Rapster

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> So any ETA on when v1.04 is going to be released?
> 
> John




Soon...™


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

I hope that is not like Samsung soon :mecry:

John.



Rapster said:


> Soon...™


----------



## Wild4fire

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



Wild4fire said:


> Just received my MC3000 yesterday and a first test with two KeepPower 3400mAh Li-Ion cells went fine, however I ran into the issue you quoted. The CSV file saved has no actual data in it other than the delimiter ;
> 
> Is there a workaround for this issue? I'd very much like to save my data from this first test.
> 
> HW version 1.4, firmware version 1.03, PCLS version 1.01
> 
> ---
> 
> By the way, hello everyone! Thanks for the excellent posts in this thread. Lots of info to wade through...



I eventually just let it go and lost the data. But on two subsequent charges I was able to save without problems, so let's hope it's an infrequent issue.

---

I'd love for the PCLS to be able to copy the settings from a slot to the others, instead of having to manually set the same parameters for the other slots. It's a small annoyance, nothing more, but it would be nice to have that function.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

Well i ordered an UNI-T UT61E DMM from an shipped by Amazon, I could of got it a bit cheaper from eBay, But if it`s faulty Amazon will normally ship a replacement out before they received the faulty one back which is great in my opinion.

The UNI-T UT61E seems to be the best meter for the buck, well pound in my case.

This meter does not have a backlight right, but the UNI-T website seems to think it does, even the photo seems to show the backlight on.

http://uni-trend.com/UT61E.html#

John.


----------



## lightlover

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



Devon said:


> ... have just revived a pair of D cells that have been in their shrink wrap for about 10 years, only minor reduction in capacity.



*Devon,* more details please? 
The way I'm reading it, that's crazy!


----------



## Devon

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



lightlover said:


> *Devon,* more details please?
> The way I'm reading it, that's crazy!



I purchased quite a few Powerizer D cells and numerous other batteries almost 10 years ago.

Last month I took them out of their shrink wrap and cycled them on this charger. I posted the results about 4 pages back but first discharge was around 7Ah and it went up from there to around 8500mAh from memory. The resting voltage was around 0.5v before I started on them.

Happy to give them another test cycle, but it will need to wait 3 weeks as they have been put in storage as I'm moving premises.

The batteries are rated at 10000mAh nominal.


----------



## tjh

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



kreisl said:


> quiz
> 
> 5000mAh NOMINAL, 0.1C charge rate, 16hours. In my books that's 8000mAh.
> 
> Why does the device measure 7590mAh only ?
> 
> And is it an accurate value per se ?


Maybe it's not taking the pauses to measure current into account for the time it's counting? So the 16 hours includes the pauses, instead of excluding them?

One for you to ask SkyRC kreisl?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> The UNI-T UT61E seems to be the best meter for the buck, well pound in my case.
> 
> This meter does not have a backlight right, but the UNI-T website seems to think it does, even the photo seems to show the backlight on.
> 
> http://uni-trend.com/UT61E.html#


John 2 versions of the UT61E exist. The less expensive CN/INT version with no (obvious) certification like FCC or whatnot, and the more expensive EU version with obvious CE/GS (Geprufte Sicherheit) certification. Wholesale dealers actually charge a 20$ extra on the EU-certified version, caramba. Internally, the versions are slightly different to account for the passed certifications but i have no photos or references at hand. The major DE/EU distributor of the EU version is the geman compani Pollin, a big bricknmortar store with an online presence, who sells to end consumers and also b2b.

There are several UNI-TREND websites, TW, HK, CN, etc.

The most complete and uptodate Uni-T website is the following URL, please discard any other:
http://www.uni-trend.com/en/


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



tjh said:


> Maybe it's not taking the pauses to measure current into account for the time it's counting? So the 16 hours includes the pauses, instead of excluding them?



you got the answer correct, the charger counts mAh's correctly. when during a time interval the current is 0, time will have passed with no addition to the mAh count. consequently there will be missing mAh's at the final tally.







analyzing the picture, one period is 303pixels, one pause is ~15pixels or less than 16pixels:
( (303-16)/303 ) * 8000mAh = 7577mAh
( (303-15)/303 ) * 8000mAh = 7604mAh
( (303-14)/303 ) * 8000mAh = 7630mAh

one can observe the same phenomenon ("missing mAh's") on the LCD of MH-C9000 in its break_in mode.

By the way, the smallest NOMINAL accepted in the Maha break_in mode is 500mAh.
In the 1.04 fw the smallest NOMINAL accepted in the mc3k break_in mode is 100mAh.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



Wild4fire said:


> I eventually just let it go and lost the data. But on two subsequent charges I was able to save without problems, so let's hope it's an infrequent issue.
> 
> ---
> 
> I'd love for the PCLS to be able to copy the settings from a slot to the others, instead of having to manually set the same parameters for the other slots. It's a small annoyance, nothing more, but it would be nice to have that function.


Welcome Wild4fire to CPF!

The current version of PCLS is rudimentary and leaves much to be desired. Looking at the history of pc software development of other sky chargers we should not hold our breath or be too serious about wishes for PCLS improvement. These days i am enjoying DataExplorer a lot, both for testing mc3k firmware, revealing mc3k fw bugs, and for revealing DEX bugs or imperfections. 

Newsflash, in the upcoming fw version the SysTemp will be available (at LCD, at USB port) for graphing. That's no big deal tbh but these days the entire company is busy with preparations for the HK Electronics Trade Show and the Beijing Hobby Expo trade fair, both in April, like last year.

The project team will resume work on the 1.04 release right after the 2 fairs. Clearly, fw 1.04 will NOT be released in April





Btw, there is no single doubt that your HW (=PCB) version is 1.5, not 1.4. As i have learned, the firmware has no means to determine whether a 1.4 or 1.5 PCB is installed. The only difference between 1.4 and 1.5 HW was the addition of FCC/CE certification anyway, which is about radiation shielding or whatever, and that's nothing what a firmware can detect. In future fw, the GSV item might simply state HW Version: 1.4+ , meaning "_your HW version is 1.4 or higher lol_".


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

How do you check the battery resistance from the charger, Somebody said press the channel and the up arrow or something :thinking: 


*******************************************************************************************************************
Anybody in the UK who is after some AAA nimh, 7dayshop eBay has 4 x Fuji, made in japan AAA 2100cycles 800/750mah (Eneloop???) for £4.71 delivered.

eBay item number: *361484083871* keep orders under £15 if you don't want import charges.

John.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

I just received my UNI-T UT61E, shipped from Amazon UK, But i cannot find any CE making on the DMM or the box, CE is mentioned in the manual for European Market, So did i get an non certified meter?

*EDIT: It is on the box but and on the dmm front.*
John.



kreisl said:


> John 2 versions of the UT61E exist. The less expensive CN/INT version with no (obvious) certification like FCC or whatnot, and the more expensive EU version with obvious CE/GS (Geprufte Sicherheit) certification. Wholesale dealers actually charge a 20$ extra on the EU-certified version, caramba. Internally, the versions are slightly different to account for the passed certifications but i have no photos or references at hand. The major DE/EU distributor of the EU version is the geman compani Pollin, a big bricknmortar store with an online presence, who sells to end consumers and also b2b.
> 
> There are several UNI-TREND websites, TW, HK, CN, etc.
> 
> The most complete and uptodate Uni-T website is the following URL, please discard any other:
> http://www.uni-trend.com/en/


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> I just received my UNI-T UT61E, shipped from Amazon UK, But i cannot find any CE making on the DMM or the box, CE is mentioned in the manual for European Market, So did i get an non certified meter?



On mine, from Amazon USA, there is a CE mark on the back of the box, immediately left of an ISO 9001 mark.

It appears that the same box is used for the entire UT61 line (A,B,C,D,E). The box uses a checkmark to indicate the specific model.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

Just checked, It`s on my box as well *"EU and ISO 9001*", how did i miss that :thinking:
*
EDIT: CE is on the front of the meter, but not on the back. *phew :twothumbs

Thanks

John.



Gauss163 said:


> On mine, from Amazon USA, there is a CE mark on the back of the box, immediately left of an ISO 9001 mark.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

Can somebody in the know recommend me some replacement probe leads as the ones supplied are supposed to be poor, Probe Master 8000 series are supposed to be great quality for the price but i cannot get them in the UK, Or at least for a sane price.

So from UK eBay or UK Amazon would be great.

Thanks

John.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> *EDIT: CE is on the front of the meter, but not on the back. *phew :twothumbs



Yes, my meters also have a CE mark on the front (lower right side of the rotary dial).


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Can somebody in the know recommend me some replacement probe leads as the ones supplied are supposed to be poor.



Why do you believe that they are poor? Unless you have specific needs for higher quality leads then they will probably work fine for hobbyist use. Keep in mind that there is a lot of (unwarranted) bashing of lower price DMMs by Fluke snobs, so you need to filter out that cruft to get honest assessments.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*

When i was looking for an new DMM, I came across this guy who has reviewed a lot of dmm`s he recommends getting some good quality probe leads for the UNI-T UT61E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YMpoy4Nuqk

John.



Gauss163 said:


> Why do you believe that they are poor? Unless you have specific needs for higher quality leads then they will probably work fine for hobbyist use. Keep in mind that there is a lot of (unwarranted) bashing of lower price DMMs by Fluke snobs, so you need to filter out that cruft to get honest assessments.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> When i was looking for an new DMM, I came across this guy who has reviewed a lot of dmm`s he recommends getting some good quality probe leads for the UNI-T UT61E



Unless you find some specific problem with yours, I highly recommend that you do not spend half the cost of the DMM to replace the leads. The supplied leads are more than adequate for the sort of hobby use discussed here. They might tangle a bit more not being silicone, and they might be slightly more scratchy on continuity tests, and they might wear out slightly sooner, but none of this will matter much much for occasional hobbyist use. Should you ever outgrow them and desire something better then you'll probably also desire a higher quality meter too, and that would be a good time to reassess, since then you'll have more experience to guide you.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> When i was looking for an new DMM, I came across this guy who has reviewed a lot of dmm`s he recommends getting some good quality probe leads for the UNI-T UT61E



The test leads can be used, what you get with better leads is:
Softer wires.
Probably lower resistance, but supplied test leads are never ideal for high current measurement at low voltages.
Better probe tips, may be sharper and have a better coating, i.e. gives better connection.
Accessories, some test leads includes lots of accessories like: nearly full protection of probe tip, alligator clips, extra thin and sharp tips, mini grippers 
Maybe better safety, this is only relevant if you work in Cat III or CAT IV environment. 

I cannot tell you what probes to buy, I have got more than enough with my Fluke, Agilent, Keysight and Keithley meters.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Feature Requests for PCLS*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> How do you check the battery resistance from the charger, Somebody said press the


works only with users who have installed the beta firmware

oops that's post#3000


----------



## Sharkie

I must say I really do like this charger, I never had a programmable charger before that can calculate charge discharge and i refreshed old battery's. Great buy for me.

I baught the Amazon basics aa and aaa battery's (i suspect a from reading on the web these are Eneloop version1, they are made in Japan...) 

I don't know where to post.. Should I cycle them before or just put them in for work and recharge them when required ? What is the best way to keep them efficient?

And another question, should I choose the Eneloop charging versus Nimh on the mh3000?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

A simple refresh should be enough, or do a discharge first at 0.2C, to see how much power was in the battery`s though i read Panasonic only charge eneloop to 80%

Or just use them out of packet, but where is the fun in that with an nice new charger sitting there doing nothing.

Go at it.

EDIT: I just ordered 4 packs of Fuji 800/750mah AAA nimh, they are supposedly eneloops as well and have made in japan in big letters on the front of the packing.

John.


----------



## chemEJoe

Sharkie said:


> I must say I really do like this charger ... the Amazon basics aa and aaa battery's ...



I like this charger too!

HKJ reviewed the Amazon Basics, you can surf and find all of them. Here's AAA 750 mAh:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Amazon Basic AAA 750mAh (White) UK.html


----------



## Sharkie

TinderBox (UK) said:


> A simple refresh should be enough, or do a discharge first at 0.2C, to see how much power was in the battery`s though i read Panasonic only charge eneloop to 80%
> 
> Or just use them out of packet, but where is the fun in that with an nice new charger sitting there doing nothing.
> 
> Go at it.
> 
> John.





chemEJoe said:


> I like this charger too!
> 
> HKJ reviewed the Amazon Basics, you can surf and find all of them. Here's AAA 750 mAh:
> 
> http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Amazon Basic AAA 750mAh (White) UK.html



Thanks for the informations, 

Now I know where to look for great batterie reviews.

I really still am not sure, can I select Eneloop program to charge the Amazon batteries ? Looking at the comparison page of a Eneloop battery curve and the Amazon basics they are exactly the same.


----------



## kreisl

Those who care may pitch in please. 

Currently the sound produced by the charger are primitive single-pitch harmless beeps. Professional-like and cute, if you ask me. In beta mc3k's the sound was tunes, melodies, kinda loud or annoying, see typical hobby chargers, but i was surprised after all when the tunes got removed and changed to single-pitch beeps.

iCharger, in comparison, alerts with a "Buzzer" for "certain events" (_OFF|ON_), alerts with a "Completion Ring" for finished charge/discharge routines (_OFF|Beep5×|Beep3min|BeepAlwaysUntilManuallyStopped_), and has a "Key Beep" (_OFF|ON_) for any key presses.

What exactly is it that you'd wish for the mc3k? 

Currently, we have this (default values are underscored):
GSV
BEEP TONE: {OFF|1|2|…|15|16}

How about the following idea in fw1.04:
GSV
KEY SOUND: {OFF|ON}
EVENT SOUND: {OFF|ON}
SOUND PITCH: {1|2|…|15|16}

That's my simple idea. Still no melodies but the wording "SOUND" reserves the possibility to replace the beeps with something more tuneful in future. 
Good enough? :tired:


----------



## tjh

Looks good, but UI sound? It should be called "status sound" or event sound or similar - it's not related to the User Interface as such is it? Assuming that's meant for "job finished, error" type sounds.

Otherwise yes, that's exactly what I'd hope for. I want to turn off the effing beeping when pressing buttons, but want to hear when a job is finished.

Cheers.


----------



## romteb

Buttons are very clicky naturally, no need to have a beeping sound imho, job finished bips are annoying and too long, something shorter and less harsh would be great.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

I turned the key sounds off as it`s really annoying, but i do like the beep for end of each processes in a job (for the moment at least) and the long beep when the job is complete, I have firmware v1.3

John.


----------



## chemEJoe

Sharkie said:


> Thanks for the informations,
> 
> Now I know where to look for great batterie reviews.
> 
> I really still am not sure, can I select Eneloop program to charge the Amazon batteries ? Looking at the comparison page of a Eneloop battery curve and the Amazon basics they are exactly the same.



You're welcome ... 

I don't know the answer to your question. 

I would guess if you program in the correct parameters, the eneloop program is just preset. Kreisl or HKJ would know for sure. 

What you can do is just read the manual or HKJ's summary on the MC3000 review where he talks about NiMH charging:

Search for "Small Programming Guide":

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger SkyRC MC3000 UK.html

And then compare to the Eneloop parameters. Also look upstream here and you'll see others advising on NiMH break_in, etc. You can just search this thread for "break" and you'll see lots of posts.


----------



## jal

I've only had mine for about two weeks; still learning it. It is actually on my list for this weekend to find the disable-beep setting. But I *hate* things that beep. The only things allowed to beep in my home are (a) safety related or (b) a certain human who finds it funny for some reason.

I will say, even as a hater of beeps, the the MC30k's tone is harsh compared to other inorganic beep-makers.


----------



## Lateck

Another Newbob with the MC3000. Interesting unit. I'll have some major reading of this thread to learn how to use it.
I downloaded the app and it seams to work easier than programming the unit directly. 

Lateck,


----------



## jpasint

Looks like I'm going to have to open my MC3000 up. 
Had 4 batteries charging and I heard a pretty loud snapping sound. The charger then gave the battery connection broken message.
Appears that the spring popped off or something else gave/broke inside because one slot has no spring/tension on the slider mechanism.

Anyone else experience this? Just wondering what I have to look to look forward to. The charger is only 6 weeks old and not used much.


----------



## Wild4fire

jpasint said:


> Looks like I'm going to have to open my MC3000 up.
> Had 4 batteries charging and I heard a pretty loud snapping sound. The charger then gave the battery connection broken message.
> Appears that the spring popped off or something else gave/broke inside because one slot has no spring/tension on the slider mechanism.
> 
> Anyone else experience this? Just wondering what I have to look to look forward to. The charger is only 6 weeks old and not used much.



If you open it up yourself, your warranty will be void. Doesn't seem like a good idea. If I were you, just claim your warranty and have it replaced/repaired by the seller.


----------



## jpasint

jpasint said:


> Looks like I'm going to have to open my MC3000 up.
> Had 4 batteries charging and I heard a pretty loud snapping sound. The charger then gave the battery connection broken message.
> Appears that the spring popped off or something else gave/broke inside because one slot has no spring/tension on the slider mechanism.
> 
> Anyone else experience this? Just wondering what I have to look to look forward to. The charger is only 6 weeks old and not used much.


Opened it up and 3 out of 4 of those black pins that hold the springs are broken. I guess the other 2 of them were ready to break and removing their top support (the PC board) allowed the springs to break them while I was disassembling it. 

The charger must have taken a big hit or something for those to break because the PC board braces the pins so there really shouldn't be much flex in them to cause them to break at the base. 

I'm thinking maybe some JB weld would work?
The thing is, one of the broken black pins has evaporated into thin air so I'll have to come up with something for that one. 
I think I still have some carbon fiber rod from some old RC control linkage that might fit the bill. 

Anyone else have to deal with this issue or am I the lucky one?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

2 part epoxy is the best as it goes hard as rock and can be filed and drilled.

John.


----------



## jpasint

Wild4fire said:


> If you open it up yourself, your warranty will be void. Doesn't seem like a good idea. If I were you, just claim your warranty and have it replaced/repaired by the seller.



Thanks but too late for warranty now. Don't care too much about warranty since the charger isnt crazy expensive.

I'm hoping someone that has dealt with this will chime in.


----------



## jpasint

TinderBox (UK) said:


> 2 part epoxy is the best as it goes hard as rock and can be filed and drilled.
> 
> John.



Thanks. That's pretty much what JB Weld is.


----------



## chemEJoe

jpasint said:


> Thanks but too late for warranty now. Don't care too much about warranty since the charger isnt crazy expensive.
> 
> I'm hoping someone that has dealt with this will chime in.



Upstream on this thread, people have used the hole in the pcb to anchor the spring. If you study the pictures by the people who have done the fan mod, you will see how this can be done.

I've had to open it 3 or 4 times to do the fan mod, as I had to adjust the grill a bit to remove fan noise.

PS, I don't double your charger was handled roughly. My charger's plug female end is crooked, so the line in is at an angle.

A few tips to get it back together:

1. I do the springs on 2 rails at a time from each side. I use masking tape to lock down the non-spring side of the rails so one can work on the other ones.

2. Take the hook side of the spring and set that through the slider first, then lock down the circular post side of the spring. Kreisl indicated if the hook is not centered on the rail slider hole, you will hear spring screeches. If you decide to use the pcb hole and skip gluing the posts back, you'll have to open up the circular side of the spring a bit.

3. make sure you have the thermocouples lined up with their slots before you put the cover back on, else you will bend them and they will not touch the metal sensor ring. That ring, btw, can be removed from the outside, be careful prying it out. you may have to re-set the sensors shape so it locks back in, but that's easy. That way, you can just put a dab of thermal grease from the outside before you snap the sensor rings back in place, as a last step in the assembly. The thermalcouples will be just there, flush with the sensor ring surface if you've slotted them correctly. Avoids a mess. 

4. Also before putting the thing together, make sure your positive terminal sides are into the slots. I put it all together once with those behind the slots, and of course that was dumb.

When 3 and 4 are all aligned, take out the masking tape with a jeweler's screwdriver or tweezers. 

Should be an easy fix, and rewarding because it's like a 3D puzzle.


----------



## jpasint

chemEJoe said:


> Upstream on this thread, people have used the hole in the pcb to anchor the spring. If you study the pictures by the people who have done the fan mod, you will see how this can be done.
> 
> I've had to open it 3 or 4 times to do the fan mod, as I had to adjust the grill a bit to remove fan noise.
> 
> A few tips to get it back together:
> 
> 1. I do the springs on 2 rails at a time from each side. I use masking tape to lock down the non-spring side of the rails so one can work on the other ones.
> 
> 2. Take the hook side of the spring and set that through the slider first, then lock down the circular post side of the spring. Kreisl indicated if the hook is not centered on the rail slider hole, you will hear spring screeches. If you decide to use the pcb hole and skip gluing the posts back, you'll have to open up the circular side of the spring a bit.
> 
> 3. make sure you have the thermocouples lined up with their slots before you put the cover back on, else you will bend them and they will not touch the metal sensor ring. That ring, btw, can be removed from the outside, be careful prying it out. you may have to re-set the sensors shape so it locks back in, but that's easy. That way, you can just put a dab of thermal grease from the outside before you snap the sensor rings back in place, as a last step in the assembly. The thermalcouples will be just there, flush with the sensor ring surface if you've slotted them correctly. Avoids a mess.
> 
> 4. Also before putting the thing together, make sure your positive terminal sides are into the slots. I put it all together once with those behind the slots, and of course that was dumb.
> 
> When 3 and 4 are all aligned, take out the masking tape with a jeweler's screwdriver or tweezers.
> 
> Should be an easy fix, and rewarding because it's like a 3D puzzle.




Thanks for the tips Joe. Very helpful indeed.
I enjoy the challenge of putting such gadgets back together. Been doing this kind of stuff my whole life and get better at it with age.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Hey what going on with these post breaking you'd think this was made in china or something.


----------



## kreisl

if i had broken pins i would put the 2 case halves on 1 new york times and take 1 clear photo showing serial number, date/day, pins, and forward the photo to the seller. the seller would then contact sky for a suggestion. sky would probably include free spare cases in the next shipment for the seller to handle the warranty situation. if the defect was a result of a careless moment during production assembly, e.g. the pins not seated in the pcb holes, then warranty will cover it. but also true, one shouldn't really open the charger on one's own. 
afaik sky doesn't have the resources like time and staff to serve end consumers on a 1 by 1 basis directly. their biz clients gather user reports, complaints and then submit them collectively every now and then i guess. so sky does deal with such problems in the end and looks for ways of remedy and correction in future . this also includes tiny modifications of the plastic cases.

ive been hard testing my units. no problems with pins.
you must have been lucky. there may be 2 or 3 other reports in a sales of 1000pcs. warranty covers it.


TinderBox (UK) said:


> Hey what going on with these post breaking you'd think this was made in china or something.



no chinese can be perfect. it's different from any other language i am aware of.


----------



## jpasint

kreisl said:


> if i had broken pins i would put the 2 case halves on 1 new york times and take 1 clear photo showing serial number, date/day, pins, and forward the photo to the seller. the seller would then contact sky for a suggestion. sky would probably include free spare cases in the next shipment for the seller to handle the warranty situation. if the defect was a result of a careless moment during production assembly, e.g. the pins not seated in the pcb holes, then warranty will cover it. but also true, one shouldn't really open the charger on one's own.
> afaik sky doesn't have the resources like time and staff to serve end consumers on a 1 by 1 basis directly. their biz clients gather user reports, complaints and then submit them collectively every now and then i guess. so sky does deal with such problems in the end and looks for ways of remedy and correction in future . this also includes tiny modifications of the plastic cases.
> 
> ive been hard testing my units. no problems with pins.
> you must have been lucky. there may be 2 or 3 other reports in a sales of 1000pcs. warranty covers it.
> 
> 
> no chinese can be perfect. it's different from any other language i am aware of.



Thanks for the tip kreisl. I'll do the picture idea before I conduct a fix. Perhaps they'll send a new case that I can use later.
Maybe I'll just hook the springs onto the PC board in the meantime.


----------



## gyzmo2002

jpasint said:


> Thanks for the tip kreisl. I'll do the picture idea before I conduct a fix. Perhaps they'll send a new case that I can use later.
> Maybe I'll just hook the springs onto the PC board in the meantime.



You can take a look at post 2698. No problem with mine since the repair.


----------



## propergol

I did also broke something on my charger, but I guess I am the culprit :
I am in a process of charging/discharging "old" laptop 18650 (420 in total  ) and some have some thin sticker glue at some place.
During the charge/discharge the cell heat a litle and the glue become much more sticky and did attached to the temp sensor, so when I did removed the battery it did come with it :mecry:

This is my fault BUT this part of the charger is extremely fragile and can come off very easily!
I did tried to stick it back with some glue but now this slot reports temperature off by 6-10°C....

Great charger anyway.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Has internal temperature anything to do with the plastic slider spring post failing (softening the plastic), did you guys get the old fan blow down or new fan blow up version?


John.


----------



## jpasint

gyzmo2002 said:


> You can take a look at post 2698. No problem with mine since the repair.



Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Has internal temperature anything to do with the plastic slider spring post failing (softening the plastic), did you guys get the old fan blow down or new fan blow up version?
> 
> 
> John.



it was careless moment during assembly . pins not properly seated in pcb holes.

nothing to do with temperatures.

your question doubt answered herewith.


moving on.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Great answer, I can relax 

John.



kreisl said:


> it was careless moment during assembly . pins not properly seated in pcb holes.
> 
> nothing to do with temperatures.
> 
> your question doubt answered herewith.
> 
> 
> moving on.


----------



## propergol

Regarding the 1.04 firmware : is there any way to test it as beta?


----------



## kreisl

btw there s a new youtube showing how updating of the firmware looks like


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

So is the firmware updating working now for those on 1.02 and below?

John.



kreisl said:


> btw there s a new youtube showing how updating of the firmware looks like


----------



## kreisl

yes john


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

So who`s first in line for a BRICK 

John.



kreisl said:


> yes john


----------



## kappa7

TinderBox (UK) said:


> So who`s first in line for a BRICK
> 
> John.


If the update fail the charger is not bricked. It's enough to power on the charger (even only by connecting the USB cable, the power supply can be left unconnected) and at the same time keep pressed the enter button: the bootloader will start directly without trying to boot the (bricked) firmware. Then you can retry the update procedure, maybe with another PC if it fails even the second time...


----------



## tjh

kreisl said:


> btw there s a new youtube showing how updating of the firmware looks like



Interesting.

They mention in the video description "_*And note that early production units do not show any blinking LED's during the process.*_" - does this apply to people who's fan (originally anyway) blew down?


----------



## kreisl

yes pretty much so. the boot loader was changed maybe even weeks earlier before they changed the fan direction.

with the beta updater.exe one cannot easily brick the charger, kappa7 procedure would salvage xyz from going awry. i haven't tested it though.

and only people with good experience with using pcls on their total system (operating system + hardware + usb quality cable) should feel safe during the moment of bricking


----------



## tjh

kreisl said:


> yes pretty much so. the boot loader was changed maybe even weeks earlier before they changed the fan direction.



Damnit! I want the pretty lights when upgrading...

Alas.

At least my fan has been optimised.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I wonder when the latest firmware will be available officially?


----------



## chemEJoe

jpasint said:


> Thanks for the tips Joe. Very helpful indeed.
> I enjoy the challenge of putting such gadgets back together. Been doing this kind of stuff my whole life and get better at it with age.



Yw. it was the cumulative work of many fan moders that helped me master the open/close of this v nice machine. Lol, now I wish I needed to charge batteries more, sort of bored in between charges.


----------



## kreisl

chemEJoe said:


> Lol, now I wish I needed to charge batteries more, sort of bored in between charges.


(k#38)


----------



## propergol

in the setup menu there is a parameter that I don't understand : "Input voltage" that can be change from 10 to 12V.
What does it do exactly?


----------



## tjh

propergol said:


> in the setup menu there is a parameter that I don't understand : "Input voltage" that can be change from 10 to 12V.
> What does it do exactly?


It's been discussed before, it's the voltage level at which the charger will complain "voltage level too low" I believe.

Hopefully with fw 1.04 a new manual will be issued that discusses it and the other changes that the FW will require to be made to the manual.

Or we'll have to write a "community edition" of the manual


----------



## propergol

ah ok! Thanks for the info.
I did search in this thread before asking but that not easy to find something relevant/matching.


----------



## Swede74

I finally decided to join the party. I placed an order for a MC3000 on Tuesday and it arrived yesterday. I was pleasantly surprised when it accepted a few tired old NiMH cells that my two other smart chargers reject, probably due to high internal resistance. Obviously those cells will not be able to handle high drain devices no matter how good a charger I use for them, but it is nice to know I am now able to squeeze every last bit of life out of them. 

One thing I would like to see is something you might call "speed dial", if implemented in the app. The way I imagine it is you have four buttons (possibly in the form of miniature photos of your own choosing) on the app home screen; press one and one of your four most frequently used programs is executed. From the charger itself, the shortcut could be a five second press and hold on one of the slot buttons. 

My apologies if I am suggesting something that has already been discussed at length. I have not seen the exact same proposal anywhere else in this thread, but it is quite long and I would be lying if I said I have read every page. 






Artist's rendition. 





Artist's rendition.


----------



## Devon

Nice idea.

I like it!

I'm sure they will slot that into their schedules somewhere around 2021.....ish.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Anybody that`s looking for a power switch for the power brick they look like the one kreisl posted earlier somewhere, I found them on eBay for $1.50 delivered. eBay item number: 131042056144

EDIT: I received my power switches, they are a different style from the one in the auction photo, and has a smaller power switch, but it seems to work OK.
EDIT2: I contacted the seller and i gave them a photo of the switch i received, And they gave me a full refund, that`s 3 switches for free.

John.


----------



## kappa7

Thanks. I've just ordered one of them.


----------



## Skeidži

Hello. Nice switch. I ordered 2 pcs.
I have question on charger SkyRC MC3000: Is it able to set as low charging current as 5-50 mA?
I would like to make some "spacer" and charge LIR 2016 (capacity 50mAh) or at least LIR 2032 (~200 mAh) batteries.
I am thinking about buying this charger machine as it can replace my Maha MH-C9000 + Xtar WP2 II + LIR charger.
Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

Skeidži said:


> I am thinking about buying this charger machine as it can replace my Maha MH-C9000 + Xtar WP2 II + LIR charger.
> Thanks.


----------



## DeJaVu

Skeidži said:


> Hello. Nice switch. I ordered 2 pcs.
> I have question on charger SkyRC MC3000: Is it able to set as low charging current as 5-50 mA?
> I would like to make some "spacer" and charge LIR 2016 (capacity 50mAh) or at least LIR 2032 (~200 mAh) batteries.
> I am thinking about buying this charger machine as it can replace my Maha MH-C9000 + Xtar WP2 II + LIR charger.
> Thanks.


Atm it can charge as low as 50ma , in future firmware versions it is posible that it will go down to 10ma, as it is technicaly doable for the charger.


----------



## kreisl

lir, whats dad?

also see last pages of manual, specs, faqs, the last faq item hh.

i don't see 10mA coming, maybe next year hah
5mA, really? 
and what's next please? 

mc3000 doesn't replace xtar nor maha c9000. the latter are smaller and easier to use. 

the next public supported battery could be ram
but the test batteries leaked and self destroyed and destroyed the chargers so ram publication is also put on indefinite hold, maybe also next year hah

nuff. i am taking a brake and am travelling. just lovely to see the world. i'll check back in whenever i can, c u guys 

bye

edit: swede74, four favorite quick dial programs because the device has four SNB's? 
can u detail the complete idea, maybe with the help of a complex elaborate example? assume that there are also active slots.


----------



## B-2Admirer

"Never heard of LIR", *kreisl*??? C'mon, we discussed, basically, the same thing in this very thread a while ago...

Attempting to charge a deeply discharged LiIon (~2.40V). The protection circuit was originally tripped, released it by holding the slot number button. Upon initializing a charge program, either LiIon or LiFe, the voltage numbers start rapidly dropping (as far as I can see) and then "Check Voltage" and the protection circuit is tripped again. With each release-trip cycle the reported voltage of the cell is lower by a few centivolts. Is there anything I can do for that cell with this charger?


----------



## Swede74

kreisl said:


> swede74, four favorite quick dial programs because the device has four SNB's?



Exactly. Four buttons = shortcuts to four different programs. Makes sense, doesn't it?



> can u detail the complete idea, maybe with the help of a complex elaborate example?



For example, I have three GP EkoPower 600 mAh cells that I use for my bike light, that I charge quite often. I would like to be able to put them in the MC3000, press and hold a button for five seconds, and have them charged using parameters I or people in this thread deem appropriate for low capacity cells.

I also have four Eneloop XX 2450 mAh that powers a small portable radio. Those I would like to be able to charge by simply pressing another button.

And, just to make things a little bit more interesting, maybe I want to charge my bike light NiMH cells AND the Li-Ion cell in my Zebralight H32w on Sundays. It would be nice not to have to press a lot of buttons and expose my brain to unnecessary wear and tear every Sunday, so ideally it should be possible to execute up to four different programs by pressing and holding one of the slot buttons. (e. g. SNB#1-3 = program 01, SNB#4 = program 02)

The icons / photos on the app home screen would serve as a reminder on which cell goes in which slot. 




> assume that there are also active slots.



I'm not sure I get this part, sorry about that.


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> "Never heard of LIR", *kreisl*??? C'mon, we discussed, basically, the same thing in this very thread a while ago...
> 
> Attempting to charge a deeply discharged LiIon (~2.40V). The protection circuit was originally tripped, released it by holding the slot number button. Upon initializing a charge program, either LiIon or LiFe, the voltage numbers start rapidly dropping (as far as I can see) and then "Check Voltage" and the protection circuit is tripped again. With each release-trip cycle the reported voltage of the cell is lower by a few centivolts. Is there anything I can do for that cell with this charger?


oh hi, i must have lost memory during that while, my bad sorry hh.
(…)
Yes, at the beginning of a Charge program, the charger determines the Batt IR. This will discharge the battery a bit and trip the protection again, all intended like this 
The only thing which comes to squimind is that you press and hold the SNB for a loong time. Continuing to hold the button will continue to pump charge into de battery. Do so until voltage has reached 3.2V or whatnot. LiFe program should be helpful too thanks. Please let us know how it goes.


----------



## B-2Admirer

Can you specify the parameters (like amplitude and duration) of the current pulse passed into a cell upon an SNB press?


----------



## kreisl

Swede74 said:


> And, just to make things a little bit more interesting, maybe I want to charge my bike light NiMH cells AND the Li-Ion cell in my Zebralight H32w on Sundays. It would be nice not to have to press a lot of buttons and expose my brain to unnecessary wear and tear every Sunday, so ideally it should be possible to execute up to four different programs by pressing and holding one of the slot buttons.


Thanks for the scenario. What about the following scenario? 
_TOV, with the four slots being: #1:[01] finished, #2:[02] busy, #3:[03] ready, #4:[04] empty. _
Long-pressing any SNB is already occupied for manual charge pumping, see my previous post. Instead, I could offer pressing < UP + SNB#? >, for example < *UP + SNB#1* >. But what is supposed to happen with _each _of these four slots, i.e. their programs and their slot status, if a user presses < *UP + SNB#1* > in this scenario? :tinfoil: Please elaborate the details, I need to get the full idea, appreciated thanks.

Anyway, a straight-forward implementation of the 4 quick calls would be in GSV, something like:

SNB1 Memory: [21]
SNB2 Memory: [05]
SNB3 Memory: [12]
SNB4 Memory: [01]

This would be equal in function to the following implementation in GSV:

1 [21][21][21][21]
2 [05][05][05][05]
3 [12][12][12][12]
4 [01][01][01][01]

Both implementations use up 4 rows in GSV. The former is easier to understand and likable. The latter is more flexible in functionality but overworking the idea imho. How would someone be able to memorize four 4-tuples *and *also their assignment to the four SNB's? No, if you want to 'save' a certain bay configuration, e.g. _#1:[11] #2:[12] #3:[13] #4:[14]_, under 1 quick call, for example < *UP + SNB#2* >, then this ain't gonna happen, sorry. 
That blows squimind. 

And, last but not least, all of your described scenarios are easily overcome by using the DUMMY UI Mode. In that mode, the NiMH/LiIon batteries are recognized and charged with a default charge rate. Done.


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> Can you specify the parameters (like amplitude and duration) of the current pulse passed into a cell upon an SNB press?



Can I quote HKJ's measurement? Here we go:


----------



## B-2Admirer

Thank you. I should have remembered that 

150 mA is may be too high, I think I have a safer way to bring the cell to a higher voltage.


----------



## Minimoog

jpasint said:


> Opened it up and 3 out of 4 of those black pins that hold the springs are broken. I guess the other 2 of them were ready to break and removing their top support (the PC board) allowed the springs to break them while I was disassembling it.
> 
> The charger must have taken a big hit or something for those to break because the PC board braces the pins so there really shouldn't be much flex in them to cause them to break at the base.
> 
> I'm thinking maybe some JB weld would work?
> The thing is, one of the broken black pins has evaporated into thin air so I'll have to come up with something for that one.
> I think I still have some carbon fiber rod from some old RC control linkage that might fit the bill.
> 
> Anyone else have to deal with this issue or am I the lucky one?



I had two broken pins. After many emails, the best I got was a partial refund from the seller and a free cover from SkyRC, I just had to pay the postage. It arrived just now. Very good service from SkyRC. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktku7hrao9gnr4h/IMAG0911.jpg?dl=0


----------



## Swede74

kreisl said:


> Long-pressing any SNB is already occupied for manual charge pumping, see my previous post.



I was not aware of the manual charge pumping feature. As Niles would say to Frasier if their last name were Sciuridae: That is why you are the older squirrel. 









> Instead, I could offer pressing < UP + SNB#? >, for example < *UP + SNB#1* >. But what is supposed to happen with _each _of these four slots, i.e. their programs and their slot status, if a user presses < *UP + SNB#1* > in this scenario? :tinfoil: Please elaborate the details, I need to get the full idea, appreciated thanks.



< UP + SNB#? > sounds like a very good alternative to a five second long-press. I may be missing something, and I have no idea how the programming leading up to the end result I am looking for would work. Perhaps the app or the PC software could be used to assign a < UP + SNB#? > combination to a certain bay configuration? You could say that my goal is to eliminate the long series of key presses required for programming one or several slots when a user wants to charge (or discharge or refresh) a favourite combination of cells. I would be happy to elaborate further if I could, but this is as far as I my imagination has taken me at the moment. 



> No, if you want to 'save' a certain bay configuration, e.g. _#1:[11] #2:[12] #3:[13] #4:[14]_, under 1 quick call, for example < *UP + SNB#2* >, then this ain't gonna happen, sorry.
> That blows squimind.



But if it ain't gonna happen I can certainly live with that...



> And, last but not least, all of your described scenarios are easily overcome by using the DUMMY UI Mode. In that mode, the NiMH/LiIon batteries are recognized and charged with a default charge rate. Done.



...since the Dummy mode comes fairly close to what I am suggesting. Close, but not quite all the way. There is always room for improvement.

By the way, if I insert a Li-Ion cell (the same cell, one slot at a time) in slot #1,#3 or #4 in Dummy mode on my unit, the default charge rate is 0.7 A. In slot #2 it is 1.5 A. Is this normal?


----------



## Devon

B-2Admirer said:


> Thank you. I should have remembered that
> 
> 150 mA is may be too high, I think I have a safer way to bring the cell to a higher voltage.



Did you note that it doesn't try and reset at 150mA in the first instance, but takes 1.5 seconds to build up to that current by slowly stepping it up....once reset, even if only at 10mA I believe it cuts at that point.


----------



## B-2Admirer

Well, we can believe anything we feel like, but I would not take someone's belief as proof of anything. It may make sense for me to test that mode with an oscilloscope, though, but I don't expect it to cut before 150 mA in any circumstances. Given that the pulse can be initiated even when the voltage is present on the battery terminals, I don't expect much "intelligence" built into the reset functionality.


----------



## kappa7

B-2Admirer said:


> Thank you. I should have remembered that
> 
> 150 mA is may be too high, I think I have a safer way to bring the cell to a higher voltage.



150mA is only the peak reached for about 0.2s. A battery doesn't care too much of the instantaneous current. The mean current is about 60mA (is you compute the integral of the pulses vs time). If you want less mean current you can also keep pressed 5s the button, then release and press it again for 5s,...


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Anybody charged NiZn battery`s in the MC3000 as i have some on order, I just want to know if they charge OK.

Thanks

John.


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> Here my comments on bpi aa nizn, the ones with the green wrapper
> Bought in a 4pack not long ago
> 
> Pros:
> 
> + came with 1.72V out of the box, very good!
> + have nice high voltage, charge voltage is 1.90V
> + a "-0.50A" discharge down to 1.30V gave 2.45Wh, which is close enough to the nominal "2500mWh"
> + perfect for my intended application: replacing alkalines with rechargeable batteries
> + fresh hot off the battery factory, date code was "enelong 201511" which probably means that the battery was manufactured in Nov 2015. today is mid Feb!
> + has protruding bottom contact. great for shorting when measuring the battery length with a digital caliper
> + suitable for high discharge applications, up to 10C discharge rate
> 
> Cons:
> 
> - does not specify capacity. with "-0.50A" down to 1.30V the discharge took 3.0hrs and i got 1500mAh. Eneloop Pro give 2500mAh, so Ni-Zn is not very capacitative!
> - the wrapper does not stick well to itself, it is coming off. needs to be fixed by me with scotch tape
> - i wished the batteries would cost 1$ less!!
> 
> Would i buy them again?
> No. It's a rarity product, sellers don't restock it, and production is likely to decrease massively. I only bought them because squirrel eats nuts and to test the nizn charging functionality of my mc charger. Genuine RAM batteries are even harder to source, even in the china, which is why not enough testing could be conducted in the charger labs to approve this battery chemistry support in the charger for public or nonpublic release. It's like learning karate to brown belt and thinking that you kick *** but never ever were out in the street and took a serious beating in a real life incident.


----------



## B-2Admirer

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Anybody charged NiZn battery`s in the MC3000 as i have some on order, I just want to know if they charge OK.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John.


AAA NiZn cells cannot be fully charged with MC3000 until the firmware is fixed. See my older posts and k#4 on the first page.


----------



## kreisl

propergol said:


> During the charge/discharge the cell heat a litle and the glue become much more sticky and did attached to the temp sensor, so when I did removed the battery it did come with it :mecry:
> 
> This is my fault BUT this part of the charger is extremely fragile and can come off very easily!
> I did tried to stick it back with some glue but now this slot reports temperature off by 6-10°C....
> 
> Great charger anyway.


I asked them about the part since i never disassembled that part before and they .. lol







Looking at the construction it is clear that they manually insert the stripe in place and that it would also come off with the right 'technique' and with no major efforts. Let's be it as it may. My guess is that the construction on the MH C9000, NC2500, etc is similar and typical. I heard that they now apply some thermal grease on the tips of the 4 slot sensors to secure the thermal path between tip and stripe but i don't care. As the manual states and i can confirm, the 4 slot sensors rather measure slot temperature than actual battery temperature, and BattTemp is not used in the NiMH charge termination algorithm anyway. For example, if #2 #3 #4 are empty and you do a -2.00A LiIon discharge in #1, then you could still observe a rise in BattTemp for #4, even though there is no battery inserted in #4 duh. On fixed 4-bay chargers like NC2500 the slot sensors are located near the tail area of the NiMH batteries, which is further away from the hot charger internals. In theory, it would be possible to design a universal 4-bay charger with fixed negative terminal contacts and the stripes right next to them, and make the sliders the positive terminal contact. Hilarious unorthodox constructional design but yes possible. Maybe competitors who try to release something similar to MC3000 should try that new constructional path first. As I had mentioned, i already saw a mochte-gern imitation of the MC3000 on the market (and for ***'s sakes i won't point to the model nor maker sorry) and their stripes are even closer to the internal heat sink.

Never mind. All we need to know is that SKY knows that one could make a MC3000-like charger with the proposed unorthodox constructional design only for the purpose of _improving _the decoupling of the 4 slot sensor readings (=heat generated by the inserted batteries) from the heat dissipated from the aluminum cooler.

If a competing charger maker is reading this post to get inspiration for an improved MC3000 design: Go ahead, try first. Better luck!


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Looks like the MC3000 is now sold and shipped from Amazon UK for £106.98

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01D1BGCW4/

John.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Come on release firmware v1.04 already this crap is getting annoying.

John.



B-2Admirer said:


> AAA NiZn cells cannot be fully charged with MC3000 until the firmware is fixed. See my older posts and k#4 on the first page.


----------



## Devon

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Come on release firmware v1.04 already this crap is getting annoying.
> 
> John.



Patience Englishman. The Germans get it first in Berlin.


----------



## kreisl

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Looks like the MC3000 is now sold and shipped from Amazon UK for



shipped from amazon uk warehouse stock
sold by amazn marketplace dealer

sagertronics ardino china oic

it's a pity with the firmware release date, and i don't want dem to release what they have already by now, my beta with so tbh numerous lil changes.

why stop here only for the sake of presenting state of the development progress

my task as intermediary is to make as much happen as possible if i can feel that they could manage to do so with lil manhours. realistic BEING FIXED's.

im on 1.04g, a buggy one, which is over 2 weeks old.

feels like being left high n drigh


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

I just hope we don't get left with buggy software when skyrc move on to the next new model of charger.

John.


----------



## kreisl

as long as the users or nutty critters care, mc3k will stay a not ending project and repup on the sky folk desks.

thx for your concerns but i don't worry at all neither should john thx again


----------



## fraktl

Hello everyone!

So I just received the SkyRC MC3000 yesterday and it worked great out of the box. Spent 30 minutes or so getting familiar with the interface and configured a few programs. I charged a set of batteries and moved on to charge some more. On the second attempt at charging, slots 2, 3, & 4 all started smoothly as normal. But Slot 1 gave me a Check Voltage error. I tried 6 different batteries (including the ones I had just charged) and still no dice.

I only have LiIon 18650s and all of their voltages range from 3.6V - 4.2V confirmed not only with a multi-meter, but by the charger itself. Right when I put the battery in, it reads the voltage which again is between 3.6V - 4.2V. I then select a program to use (yes I have gone through all of the programs and made sure that they have the correct battery composition selected) and pressed the start button. Not 1 second after pressing start, I notice the Charge Current for slot 3 drop from it's set value of 0.5A to 0.25A or so and then I get the Check Voltage error and Slot 2 goes back to charging at the fixed 0.5A.

After the other 3 batteries had finished, I powered the device off by unplugging the chord from the back of the charger and waited 30 seconds and plugged it back in. This time I only put 1 battery in Slot 1 of the charger with all other slots empty and still got the Check Voltage error when starting the charge. I even went into the system settings and did a factory reset and I still get the Check Voltage error in Slot 1 only.

HW: 1.4
FW: 1.03

If anyone knows a fix for this or can point me in the right direction, I’d greatly appreciate it! I’ve searched all over google and can’t find anything that relates to an improper check voltage error so I apologize if this has been mentioned before somewhere as I was unable to locate it.

Thanks!


----------



## kreisl

you can try ncr18650b unprotected brand new ones, and also measure the battir for all 4 units in all 4 slots. a total of 16 readings right.
tia for sharing

or clean the rails by removing the grease. it is nonconductive grease adding unpredictable resistance to the system.

and how do you do the factory reset, what do you see as massage on the screen?

also check the manual on error messages


----------



## fraktl

kreisl said:


> you can try ncr18650b unprotected brand new ones, and also measure the battir for all 4 units in all 4 slots. a total of 16 readings right.
> tia for sharing



Why would I need the ncr18650b unprotected cells? The cells I have can't be the problem as the same cell in any slot other than 1 works fine. I have a total of 22 LiIon 18650 batteries. They are all either Samsung 25r, LG HE2, LG HG2, Sony VTC4, and Sony VTC5. I can take any 4 of these you want and read the battery IR in each slot for all 4 batteries. I will have to wait until the 3 batteries I have in the charger have finished charging.



kreisl said:


> or clean the rails by removing the grease. it is nonconductive grease adding unpredictable resistance to the system.



What is the best way to clean the grease? I want to make sure I don't make the problem any worse.



kreisl said:


> and how do you do the factory reset, what do you see as message on the screen?



With no batteries in the charger, I hold the Stop button down until I get into Global System Settings. Then go all the way down to the bottom of the menu and select factory reset. I press Enter twice and then it says, "Factory Reset Complete" After that all of my custom programs were gone so I assumed the factory reset was a success.

Also, here's a video of it in action:


----------



## kreisl

slot1 goes down to 1v during processing for measuring battir. so cclean the rail with qtip. no need to open the charger case. just try to reach the rail from the outside by introducing a qtip.

also try to insert 4.20v battery. 3.7v is almost depleted .

anyway, slot1 stops program because during battir measurement the cell voltage is dropping below min threshold. i believe it's de grease.

hopefully that saves your labor holiday *^O^*


----------



## fraktl

kreisl said:


> slot1 goes down to 1v during processing for measuring battir. so cclean the rail with qtip. no need to open the charger case. just try to reach the rail from the outside by introducing a qtip.
> 
> also try to insert 4.20v battery. 3.7v is almost depleted .
> 
> anyway, slot1 stops program because during battir measurement the cell voltage is dropping below min threshold. i believe it's de grease.
> 
> hopefully that saves your labor holiday *^O^*



Here's the Internal Resistance of 4 batteries

Battery1 - Slot1: Check Voltage A1 (LG HE2)
Battery1 - Slot2: 33mΩ
Battery1 - Slot3: 30mΩ
Battery1 - Slot4: 30mΩ

Battery2 - Slot1: Check Voltage A2 (LG HE2)
Battery2 - Slot2: 30mΩ
Battery2 - Slot3: 34mΩ
Battery2 - Slot4: 28mΩ

Battery3 - Slot1: Check Voltage B1 (Samsung 25R)
Battery3 - Slot2: 30mΩ
Battery3 - Slot3: 30mΩ
Battery3 - Slot4: 29mΩ

Battery4 - Slot1: Check Voltage B2 (Samsung 25R)
Battery4 - Slot2: 28mΩ
Battery4 - Slot3: 30mΩ
Battery4 - Slot4: 33mΩ

Okay I just finished charging my 4 Sony VTC4's using slots 2, 3, and 4. I took all of the batteries out and took a q-tip and cleaned as much of the rail on slot 1 that I have access to without taking the unit apart. Using the same Sony VTC4 batteries that I just charged in slots 2-4, I inserted one of them in slot 1. I selected the same program that I used before with a 500mA current charge, 50mA charge termination, and a 4.2V target voltage with no other custom settings. Just like before, it reads the voltage accurately, Program 1 is selected, and I press start. The screen displays "Processing..." and directly afterward I watch the voltage drop down to 0 until it says "Check Voltage."

I then took the same battery I just tried to charge in slot 1 and placed it in slot 2, selected Program 1, and pressed Start. The screen displays "Processing..." and directly afterwards the voltage never drops below the original reading and the charge current begins to rise up to 500mA.

I have until May 29th to get a replacement from my place of purchase, but if it's something simple I can fix myself without disassembling it or having to mail it in and wait for a replacement, I'd much rather go that route.


----------



## B-2Admirer

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Come on release firmware v1.04 already this crap is getting annoying.
> 
> John.


Actually, since - in the other thread where you asked about NiZn - you posted that you were worried about higher voltage of NiZn compared to Alkaline, you may not want to fully charge them, in fact you may even want charge them to a voltage lower than their nominal 1.9 V. Setting target voltage for NiZn is possible with the currently available firmware.

That being said, I really do believe that SkyRC should have released a firmware update with missing functionality restored, but apparently they consider it "just another bug", even though it is in fact a missing feature, documented in the manual for that matter, restoring which should certainly have higher priority than bug-squashing.



kappa7 said:


> 150mA is only the peak reached for about 0.2s. A battery doesn't care too much of the instantaneous current. The mean current is about 60mA (is you compute the integral of the pulses vs
> time). If you want less mean current you can also keep pressed 5s the button, then release and press it again for 5s,...


 As I have said, I believe I have a safer (and easier) way than manually sending 150 mA pulses to the battery. I intend to use it in my GPS receiver, which also has a solar panel to ease the load on the battery while operating, and after my earlier experimentation with it I know that it passes some very low current to the battery from the solar panel when switched off... if the solar panel is energized, that it. So I first put it next to a powerful fluorescent lamp and then next to a window through which the setting sun was shining and after several hours got the voltage from about 2.4 V to about 3.1, which was enough to continue charging it in the MC3000. By now, after fully charging it, discharging and then charging again, I'm pleased to find out that it shows no traces of irreversible changes; not only there's no swelling, which all too often happens to a LiIon cell recharged after a deep discharge, but its capacity appears to be just about nominal, which is 1150 mAh. I am very much impressed that a battery made sometime in late 2005 (as I was able to decipher from the alphanumeric code on it) was able to last through all those years of neglect, apparently stored somewhere with no charge being taken. Well, that's the Japanese quality for ya; I am (mildly put) very far from positive that a China-made one would have emerged unscathed from such a grueling trial...

But the bottom line is it would be very useful to have a way to skip the initial IR check. I don't think I'm the only person to ever have the need to charge a deeply discharged protected LiIon. Can this be accepted as a suggestion?


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> it would be very useful to have a way to skip the initial IR check. I don't think I'm the only person to ever have the need to charge a deeply discharged protected LiIon. Can this be accepted as a suggestion?



i like.
i make happen.
listed under (k#54).


----------



## vuedaigle

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi all,

i'm a new french user for 3 weeks and I have an issue :

I have sparkles when I plug the chord into the charger ! The charger works well anyway but how long?
I read 15.2v on the power output.
Have I to worry about? Am I alone with this issue?
On/Off swich could be usefull for me.

Thanks


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vuedaigle said:


> Hi all,
> 
> i'm a new french user for 3 weeks and I have an issue :
> 
> I have sparkles when I plug the chord into the charger ! The charger works well anyway but how long?
> I read 15.2v on the power output.
> Have I to worry about? Am I alone with this issue?
> On/Off swich could be usefull for me.
> 
> Thanks



I have noticed the sparks as well. Personally (others may disagree) I am not worried it will affect the charger itself, but a spark could potentially ignite the hydrogen and oxygen emitted from a NiMH cell when overcharged. I recommend disconnecting the adapter from the wall outlet instead of plugging/unplugging the cord into the charger.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi

The sparks have been mentioned before in this thread, due to capacitors or something, the recommendation was to plug in the 12v to the charger first and then connect the mains so you do not get any sparks.

You can buy a mains switch adaptor a see link below if your mains socket does not have a switch, or like me it`s more convenient and they are very cheap to buy.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131042056144?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

John.


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Does anyone have anything else I could try? I really don't want to have to send it back :/

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389700-SkyRC-%97-IFA-2014-%97-MC3000-charger-analyzer&p=4888889&viewfull=1#post4888889

Posts 3074 - 3078

Thanks in advance!


----------



## vuedaigle

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks guys, the power on/off switch adapter may be interesting.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Not a lot you can do without opening it up which would void the warranty, all you can do is check the contacts are clean and the sliders operate as normal, but if you are still getting the check voltage on slot 1 something must have gone wrong inside, strange that your first set of cells charged ok, it seems you have to return it for a refund.

Sorry Friend. 

John.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vuedaigle said:


> I have sparkles when I plug the chord into the charger !



Such sparks have been discussed earlier - see here.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fraktl said:


> Does anyone have anything else I could try? I really don't want to have to send it back :/
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389700-SkyRC-%97-IFA-2014-%97-MC3000-charger-analyzer&p=4888889&viewfull=1#post4888889
> 
> Posts 3074 - 3078
> 
> Thanks in advance!



if it were my sample i would open it and look with a loop if there were anything conspicuous on the pcb, rails , contacts,sliders etc like a blotch of white grease, dirt, dust, hair, solder, impurity and clean pcb and everything with alcohol or solvent. and after all that the problem persists id give up.

id also contact the seller and ask for suggestions。

sorry to hear about your problem with Check Voltage message. it's a first.

id also check calibration, see manual


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Not a lot you can do without opening it up which would void the warranty, all you can do is check the contacts are clean and the sliders operate as normal, but if you are still getting the check voltage on slot 1 something must have gone wrong inside, strange that your first set of cells charged ok, it seems you have to return it for a refund.
> 
> Sorry Friend.
> 
> John.





kreisl said:


> if it were my sample i would open it and look with a loop if there were anything conspicuous on the pcb, rails , contacts,sliders etc like a blotch of white grease, dirt, dust, hair, solder, impurity and clean pcb and everything with alcohol or solvent. and after all that the problem persists id give up.
> 
> id also contact the seller and ask for suggestions。
> 
> sorry to hear about your problem with Check Voltage message. it's a first.
> 
> id also check calibration, see manual



I planned on opening it up anyways, my only problem is if I discover that it's a wiring issue or circuitry issue or something that I can't fix myself, I'd be SOL with warranty.

Oh well, I still have time to send it in for a replacement so it looks like I'll be doing that. Thanks for the help anyways guys!


----------



## olemil

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I haven't read this entire thread but hit most of the high points so far. What is the overall opinion of this charger from members that hasn't had any problems, worth the money? I currently have an array of different chargers, Xtar VP2 & Xtar VC2 (for 18650's), Powerex MH-C9000 for eneloops. I like all the chargers I have but want something that is more of an all in one and has a discharge function for all types of cells. I'm ready to pull the trigger on buying one unless you guys think I should wait for more bugs to be worked out. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



olemil said:


> I haven't read this entire thread but hit most of the high points so far. What is the overall opinion of this charger from members that hasn't had any problems, worth the money? I currently have an array of different chargers, Xtar VP2 & Xtar VC2 (for 18650's), Powerex MH-C9000 for eneloops. I like all the chargers I have but want something that is more of an all in one and has a discharge function for all types of cells. I'm ready to pull the trigger on buying one unless you guys think I should wait for more bugs to be worked out. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.



The charger is brilliant. Against my MH-C9000 I love that it does proper termination based on the small voltage drop seen when the cell is full. That way you know you're pulling off a fully charged cell when the charger says done, not a 90% full cell when the MH-C9000 says done (or waiting an extra 2 hours for the top-off charge.) That does mean that the cells come off hotter, but the great thing about this charger is you can set a termination voltage if you want, so the cells aren't hot.

It also chargers my LiIONs great.

Being able to easily program it from a phone/desktop is also another bonus, though the process is a bit tedious compared to using the charger itself.

Finally the fact you can take pretty graphs etc is nice, if not exactly the most useful thing in the world.

Obviously I'm biased because I own one already, but I don't think there's a better charger/analyiser device at the moment. FW 1.02 is fine, there's a very small bugs but they're all edge cases.


----------



## olemil

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

tjh, thank you for the reply, very helpful!! Like I said I am very pleased with my MH-C9000 and it sounds like this one does an even better job of charging NIMH batteries. I am sure the apps work well with a smart device, probably I will play around with that part of it for awhile to see how it works, but not really a deciding factor on buying the charger. Looks like it has a pretty straight forward user interface from what I've read in the manual and videos I've watched on YouTube. Guess it would be cool to check on my battery charging status from the kitchen if I happen to go for a snack or beverage..lol. The dealer I contacted says his inventory has firmware version 1.03, not sure what changes were made compared to your version. I also like the fact of being able to discharge my lion batteries to storage charge if they are not being used in a torch for a period of time. Thanks again for your input, I appreciate it very much!!


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I love this charger too and have now replaced all my others - a Maha 9000, a Maha 808C, a Nitecore D4 and a Fenix ARE-C2 with one MC3000. Note that the MC3000 can only do 2 D cells at a time but that is OK for me since I don't use many D cells.

Much more space in my desk and this charger is so much more versatile even though I mostly use it in 'dummy' mode.

I say go for it.






tjh said:


> The charger is brilliant. Against my MH-C9000 I love that it does proper termination based on the small voltage drop seen when the cell is full. That way you know you're pulling off a fully charged cell when the charger says done, not a 90% full cell when the MH-C9000 says done (or waiting an extra 2 hours for the top-off charge.) That does mean that the cells come off hotter, but the great thing about this charger is you can set a termination voltage if you want, so the cells aren't hot.
> 
> It also chargers my LiIONs great.
> 
> Being able to easily program it from a phone/desktop is also another bonus, though the process is a bit tedious compared to using the charger itself.
> 
> Finally the fact you can take pretty graphs etc is nice, if not exactly the most useful thing in the world.
> 
> Obviously I'm biased because I own one already, but I don't think there's a better charger/analyiser device at the moment. FW 1.02 is fine, there's a very small bugs but they're all edge cases.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> 1 ... it would also come off with the right 'technique'
> 2 ... As the manual states and i can confirm, the 4 slot sensors rather measure slot temperature than actual battery temperature
> 3 ... BattTemp is not used in the NiMH charge termination algorithm anyway. For example, if #2 #3 #4 are empty and you do a -2.00A LiIon discharge in #1, then you could still observe a rise in BattTemp for #4, even though there is no battery inserted in #4 duh.



Kreisl:

1. this picture is good. When I opened my charger to do fan mod and also clean the rails, use contact cleaner ProGold (search for OP in this thread), I decided to clean up the mess I had made with the thermal grease. I realized you can remove the thermal contact strips show by your pic by pulling up, form the outside, the straight side. Then, with wiggling, you ge the hooked side out. Then, you can just clean up the charger and reassemble, and then put a dab of thermal greast on the thermocouple wires and snap thise strips in place. Very clean install that way. Now, just noted, the z-hooked side on the strips may need restraightening so it snaps in place. So your pic is really good for people doing that and I could use it to explain how to handle that part of the charger.

2. so are you saying here that when you get slot temps, they come from another place so that these thermocouple contact strips that indicate battery temp are not slot temp? Does systemp come from the aluminum heat sink, and if so, where does the slot temps come from?

3. so are you saying here that systemp will influence slot temp at the bettery so it's not accurate anyway?

Thanks again, ...


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

What is the best way to see all temperature sensors readings to check for any faults?

Thanks

John.


----------



## kreisl

john check gsv

joe i dont understand you. where does your confusion come from. i was only paraphrasing the manual. for more clear explanation of temperature or sensors please see manual


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> i like.
> i make happen.
> listed under (k#54).


Sounds good. I think it makes sense to implement it as an option in all relevant programs, what do you think?

While hunting for brain mushrooms today I saw a squirrel with a bushy tail chasing another one with a not-so-bushy tail. They were evidently too absorbed by their chase to pay me any attention (I was just a few meters from them). I have never seen anything like that, so I wonder if it's symbolic :-? And - before anyone suggests - no, the name of brain mushrooms refers to their appearance, not to a tendency to affect the brain, making you see squirrels and other things :-|


----------



## kreisl

lol brain mushrooms squirrels 

it is debatable whether this option should be part of spv or gsv. i tend to gsv, to leave spv as less complex as possible. no need to clutter up spv even more, since battir measurement could be evoked separately in tov thru UP+DOWN button combo anyway

my 2 nuts


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> lol brain mushrooms squirrels
> 
> it is debatable whether this option should be part of spv or gsv. i tend to gsv, to leave spv as less complex as possible. no need to clutter up spv even more, since battir measurement could be evoked separately in tov thru UP+DOWN button combo anyway
> 
> my 2 nuts


Well, it really did happen like that... and I found some brain mushrooms on that forest clearing, too ;-)

My rationale was allowing the creation of programs specifically for deeply discharged cells, but I would accept it either way, as I won't terribly miss the IR measurement, at least until it starts to make some sense, which probably isn't going to happen until I open my unit to make contact more reliable.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> john check gsv
> 
> joe i dont understand you. where does your confusion come from. i was only paraphrasing the manual. for more clear explanation of temperature or sensors please see manual



Howdy ... I didn't understand why you are saying the battery temp sensor strips were unimportant, that's all. There are thermocouples that go to them, and I explained how to get at those strips, thermo grease from the top based on your picture. That's the easiest way to reassemble the charger so you don't get thermo grease all over the place (to put a dab of the grease from the top and snap the strips in place).

But, your explanation of those strips being unimportant is confusing me. It doesn't matter if you don't understand what I'm asking, ... I'm just trying to understand what you posted that's all.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

I have been looking for a photo to see of the aluminum strips are connected to anything but have not found an photo, one would think they are for monitoring the battery temperature, if they are not connected to anything they should be removed in future version to reduce cost and eliminate the possibility of them being accidentally removed.

John.


----------



## kreisl

tbx8192 said:


> I got strange result when cycling two batteries.
> They were two Sanyo 3.7V lithium-ion, type was UR14500P. Rated capacity was 840mAH.
> I put them on slot 1 & 4 and used D-C-D mode to do 2 cycles. When done I saw capacity result in SOV (Slot Operation View) as below:
> --- Slot 1 ---
> CYCLE 1: 792mAh
> CYCLE 2: 793mAh
> Capacity: 793mAh
> 
> --- Slot 4 ---
> CYCLE 1: 809mAh
> CYCLE 2: 809mAh
> Capacity: 847mAh
> 
> In TOV (Total Overview), slot 1/4 capacity was 793/847.
> 
> It was strange why slot 4 cycle 2 capacity was not 847. I did not find any description in instruction menu about the "Capacity" number in cycle mode. As I know it should be the latest charge or discharge capacity, as during the cycle process. Then slot 4 cycle 2 capacity should be 847mAh, not 809.
> 
> I also saw similar problem in previous cycle mode test. Is it some software bug? If capacity result in cycle mode can't display correctly, it is big problem for MC3000.
> 
> Anyone found similar capacity result problem in cycle mode? My MC3000's HW/FW version is 1.4/1.03.


hmm interesting. first of all r u 100% sure that you're running the identical program number in #4 and #1 ?

i have 2pcs of TF18350, i'll do the same test np. identical program number in slot4 and slot1. will also do continuous logging with latest dex jar

http://tinyurl.com/jardex
( replace your old skyrc.jar with this one, it's the latest file version )

if i get the same surprising behavior, confirmed by dex logging, then i'll take measures. i'm on fw 1.04g btw


----------



## fraktl

kreisl said:


> hmm interesting. first of all r u 100% sure that you're running the identical program number in #4 and #1 ?
> 
> i have 2pcs of TF18350, i'll do the same test np. identical program number in slot4 and slot1. will also do continuous logging with latest dex jar
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/jardex
> ( replace your old skyrc.jar with this one, it's the latest file version )
> 
> if i get the same surprising behavior, confirmed by dex logging, then i'll take measures. i'm on fw 1.04g btw




Your dropbox link gives me a Error (500) message. Also do you have any tips to get DataExplorer to work? Is there a setup guide anywhere? I've tried it before and it just deletes the MC300 option from the list every time I try to set it up.


----------



## kreisl

no setup guide.
win10 may not be supported.
winxp win7 no prob. mac and linux no prob.
you must install latest JRE first, java runtime environment oracle.com download.
....


yeah dropbox server down right now, let's try again later.

mc3k support in dex is really beautiful and will be enhanced, like saving/restoring 30 programs to/from hdd.


----------



## tjh

kreisl said:


> no setup guide.
> win10 may not be supported.
> winxp win7 no prob. mac and linux no prob.
> you must install latest JRE first, java runtime environment oracle.com download.
> ....
> 
> 
> yeah dropbox server down right now, let's try again later.
> 
> mc3k support in dex is really beautiful and will be enhanced, like saving/restoring 30 programs to/from hdd.


Dex works fine under Windows 10.


----------



## fraktl

tjh said:


> Dex works fine under Windows 10.



I have a fresh install of Windows 10 Pro x64 with very capable hardware. As soon as I select the MC3000 in the device list I get the error you see in the screenshot here. After that the MC3000 is missing from the list and SkyRC.jar is deleted automatically. Java is fully up to date.


----------



## tjh

fraktl said:


> I have a fresh install of Windows 10 Pro x64 with very capable hardware. As soon as I select the MC3000 in the device list I get the error you see in the screenshot here. After that the MC3000 is missing from the list and SkyRC.jar is deleted automatically. Java is fully up to date.


No idea then, "Works for me" etc.

Try running it wih Admin privs?


----------



## fraktl

tjh said:


> No idea then, "Works for me" etc.
> 
> Try running it wih Admin privs?




Already am :/

Installed it as admin as well.


----------



## jpasint

fraktl said:


> Already am :/
> 
> Installed it as admin as well.


Windows 10 has good compatibility modes for programs so maybe try that.


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> yeah dropbox server down right now, let's try again later.



you could bookmark the tiny url, it's where i retrieve the latest file version.
the more i test mc3k, now always in conjunction with dex, not with pcls anymore, and the more i test dex for testing mc3k fw, the more bugs i detect both in the fw and in dex. and sometimes it is not clear whether an unexpected observation needs to be fixed in the fw (USB data output) or in dex. both softwarez get debugged in parallel, which is nice, and that also includes the debugging and revision of the interface specification. with more or new functions added in the firmware, the interface specification changes, and then dex needs a revision too etc. i could reach the tiny url earlier today, now i've tried again, zilch 500, so a temporary upload on an alternative hoster:

https://www.sendspace.com/file/oti0hp

What's new? This file version calculates Energy correctly/exactly, as can be cross-checked with Excel. Also the timing/timer/time is 100.00% correct and follows NIST timing and not the BIOS timer or the mc3k internal clocker. mc3k calculates Energy inexactly in the old firmware, which was fixed weeks ago in the beta firmware (k#50) (k#52).

mc3k energy calculation and dex energy calculation are separate, independent; mc3k does not send energy data to the USB channel, which i like. It is my guess that mc3k just leaves the energy value be, such that, during the resting or the finish phases, the user can read the energy value of the previous charge/discharge. Imho that's a correct and logical implementation in the firmware, for the user's convenience.

Similarly, dex nulls the counting of energy during "those (resting or finish) phases" when 1) there is no current flowing, or 2) there is (nimh/nicd) trickle current flowing. Imo it makes sense —even when the trickle current is as high as 300mA— to let the CAPACITY value be, e.g. 1985mAh _before _those phases and 1985mAh _during _those phases. So no increase of capacity, if there is trickle current. That's what Maha does, that's what everybody does. Similar reasoning applies to the counting of energy i guess. Or r u interested in the energy of trickle current lmao. Well even if u r, let's keep it simple for now KISS principle.

Anyway, doesn't super matter how dex handles energy during those phases but it should be consistent, of course.


----------



## propergol

I did installed JRE on Windows 10 64bit, then when I try to launch SkyRC.jar , nothing happend, no error, nothing.
Any ideas?


----------



## fraktl

propergol said:


> I did installed JRE on Windows 10 64bit, then when I try to launch SkyRC.jar , nothing happend, no error, nothing.
> Any ideas?




You have to download and install DataExporer here: http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/download.html

And then copy SkyRC.jar and place it in the C:\Program Files\DataExplorer\devices folder.

SkyRC.jar is the device file required to use DataExporer (AKA DEX) with the SkyRC MC3000.


----------



## fraktl

jpasint said:


> Windows 10 has good compatibility modes for programs so maybe try that.



Oh I've tried 

Doesn't work either :/


----------



## propergol

fraktl said:


> You have to download and install DataExporer here: http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/download.html
> 
> And then copy SkyRC.jar and place it in the C:\Program Files\DataExplorer\devices folder.
> 
> SkyRC.jar is the device file required to use DataExporer (AKA DEX) with the SkyRC MC3000.



ah! ok! thanks!
It works now, I can see charging discharging curves.


----------



## propergol

I got a question regarding ugrading the cooling system of the MC3000.
I haven't open it up yet and have only seen some pictures of the inside but :
Do you think it could be possible, at least theoretically, to desolder the discharging transistor from the board and re-solder it to wires?
That would allow to dissipate most of the heat outside the charger if the discharging transistor was sticked (with some thermal adhesive paste) to an external heatsink.


----------



## fraktl

I got DEX to work for me finally! I sent an email to [email protected] explaining my troubles and recieved a response from Winfried telling me to go to %AppData%/DataExplorer/Devices and delete MC3000.xml so that it will get rebuilt the next time I open DEX. And what do you know, now I'm getting graphs and statistics from DEX while charging through the MC3000! Yes! So happy it's finally working!



propergol said:


> I got a question regarding ugrading the cooling system of the MC3000.
> I haven't open it up yet and have only seen some pictures of the inside but :
> Do you think it could be possible, at least theoretically, to desolder the discharging transistor from the board and re-solder it to wires?
> That would allow to dissipate most of the heat outside the charger if the discharging transistor was sticked (with some thermal adhesive paste) to an external heatsink.



Sorry I'm not sure, you'll have to wait for someone with more electrical experience to chime in :shrug:


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> if i get the same surprising behavior, confirmed by dex logging, then i'll take measures. i'm on fw 1.04g btw


the bug has been fixed in my beta 1.05 firmware
it was an interesting bug tbh.
noted under (k#55) thanks


----------



## fraktl

Well damn. Pretty sure I just screwed myself. As I mentioned earlier, Slot 1 has not been working for me and it tells me to Check Voltage even though the voltage is perfectly fine for the Program I have selected for that slot. I decided against my better judgement to take her apart and attempt to fix it myself.

Now that I've taken it apart and cleaned all of the grease off of the rails, I cannot, for the life of me, put it back together. I have tried for hours to put it back together and I just don't have the skill, tools, or patience required. I'm in over my head and I just destroyed a $100 piece of equipment.

Even if I could put it back together, 3 of the tiny pieces of plastic that one end of the spring loops around are broken and snapped off. I super glued 2 of them back into place, but there's no telling if that even did anything. I mean they're sitting there in place, but I feel like as soon as I put the pressure of the spring on them they'll just snap right back off.

If anyone feels like they can put it back together, I'll gladly ship it to you, pay for your time, and pay for return shipping. Otherwise, I'm just gonna have to throw it away. Or if anyone wants to scavenge some of the parts let me know. I'd much rather someone fix it, but if that turns out to not be an option, I don't want good hardware to go to waste as I'll have no use for it.

If anyone out there can fix this for me or wants it for parts, let me know here or via PM. Thank you.


Here's some pictures of the catastrophe that I've created:

http://imgur.com/a/c3kgD


----------



## slowcorrado

fraktl said:


> If anyone feels like they can put it back together, I'll gladly ship it to you, pay for your time, and pay for return shipping. Otherwise, I'm just gonna have to throw it away. Or if anyone wants to scavenge some of the parts let me know. I'd much rather someone fix it, but if that turns out to not be an option, I don't want good hardware to go to waste as I'll have no use for it.
> 
> If anyone out there can fix this for me or wants it for parts, let me know here or via PM. Thank you.



Aw! This sucks. I'll gladly try to put it back together for you! I'm a new poster here, so I can't PM, but if interested, PM me and we can set it up.


----------



## kreisl

Hi did you break the plastic pins during your attempt of reassembly? Skills are not required, tools only 1 pair of tweezers to hook the springs in these pins. Mostly, patience is needed. Sorry to hear. You should still contact your dealer and ask for help, he might have the spare part or could ask the maker for spare parts in his next order shipment.

Btw in the new fw LiIon batteries with offline voltages of 3.30V or lower will not be automatically tested for battir measurement anymore. This should help to let users with overdischarged protected LiIon batteries recharge them without re-tripping the battery protection PCB. Whoever wants to measure the battir of such overdischarged batteries could still execute the battir measurement manually by pressing UP+DOWN together in tov.

Now that your charger is disassembled, you could look for sharp edges on the sliders and treat them with sand paper or whatnot. Sharp edges could leaves scratches on the sliders. Also, that grease wouldnt be needed any longer. Good luck with everything please keep us posted.


----------



## fraktl

kreisl said:


> Hi did you break the plastic pins during your attempt of reassembly? Skills are not required, tools only 1 pair of tweezers to hook the springs in these pins. Mostly, patience is needed. Sorry to hear. You should still contact your dealer and ask for help, he might have the spare part or could ask the maker for spare parts in his next order shipment.
> 
> Btw in the new fw LiIon batteries with offline voltages of 3.30V or lower will not be automatically tested for battir measurement anymore. This should help to let users with overdischarged protected LiIon batteries recharge them without re-tripping the battery protection PCB. Whoever wants to measure the battir of such overdischarged batteries could still execute the battir measurement manually by pressing UP+DOWN together in tov.
> 
> Now that your charger is disassembled, you could look for sharp edges on the sliders and treat them with sand paper or whatnot. Sharp edges could leaves scratches on the sliders. Also, that grease wouldnt be needed any longer. Good luck with everything please keep us posted.



I believe they broke upon disassembly. I did not know that they were there, and I did not know that they were so fragile. I purchased my unit through Amazon, so I doubt that the seller would offer any help seeing as I have already taken it apart.

The issue was not due to the battery being undercharged. I took the same battery and put it in a different slot and it charged just fine. I've tried to charge all 22 batteries that I own and none of them would charge in Slot 1. All 22 batteries successfully charged and discharged in Slots 2, 3, & 4.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You could do this to keep the springs working with a broken pin. I kept my broken pin to secure de spring to move in the hole. 

Post 2698


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> You could do this to keep the springs working with a broken pin. I kept my broken pin to secure de spring to move in the hole.
> 
> Post 2698



Worth a shot, thanks for the tip!


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I got it back together! Guess I just needed to leave it alone for a bit and get some motivation from you guys lol. Thanks gyzmo2002 for the tip about the little plastic piece. Turns out the first 2 that I superglued stayed in place and worked just fine. The one that broke off, I used your suggestion and stuck it through the bottom of the board and stuck it through the loop. Works great!

So as you might recall, my Slot 1 has not been working and my whole reason for taking the charger apart was to clean this slot and hopefully get it to work. I cleaned all slots and checked for scratches (there were none) and put it back together.

Slot 1 is STILL not working. Whenever I put a battery into Slot 1 and initiate a charge/discharge/ANYTHING I hear a faint, high-pitched beep. Very electronic sounding. It has to be from a speaker, and if it is, I have no idea what speaker it's coming from.

kreisl if you have any ideas as to why this is happening, I am open to suggestions! Also, I was thinking of sending it in for a replacement. Do you think they'd notice that I took it apart? lol


Here's a video where you can hear it, with proof that it is not the battery in question as I show the same battery initiate a successful charge in the other 3 slots:


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Have you tried reversing the polarity in slot 1 to see what happens?

Probably won't help. As soon as you start the program the voltage takes a dive. Check for shorts across the charging circuit.


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> Have you tried reversing the polarity in slot 1 to see what happens?
> 
> Probably won't help. As soon as you start the program the voltage takes a dive. Check for shorts across the charging circuit.



Just tried reversing the polarity and it didn't even register the battery. I honestly really don't feel like taking it apart and having to put it back together again, so I'm probably not going to be able to check the charging circuit for shorts. Looks like, at least for now, I have a one-of-a-kind MC3K 3-bay charger!


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I bought one of these 6 Port USB 50W chargers the other day, the display cycles though the overall voltage and the amps being used, It`s great to make sure you have a good connection to your phone/tablet so that it charges at maximum speed.

The display is in low brightness amber so you can see it in the dark.







John.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

new dex version has been released. the detailed change log states:


What's new in 3.2.6 dex? said:


> News of this version are:
> 1) fix - Linux adaptation for incompatible but working SWT SashForm.setWeights
> 2) MC3000
> - add warning message selecting continuous data recording in combination with reduced without pause,..
> - add capability to data capture finish for 15 minutes
> - change energy calculation method
> 3) iCharger*
> - handle state property exception while receiving incomplete data
> - remove checksum calculation
> 4) iCharger4010DUO
> - enable USB live data gathering (one time deletion of iCharger4010DUO.xml required)
> 5) Weatronic-Telemetry
> - handle not initialized measurement symbols which are sometimes displayed as string null
> 6) Polaron EX1400
> - add support
> 7) HoTTAdapter
> - fix live data gathering of missing ESC values
> 8) HoTTAdapter*
> - enhance sensor detection in transmitter logs mainly needed while high Rx->Tx PLoss (pupil transmitter logs)


i can feel that both the dex logging of mc3k and the mc3k firmware are reaching high maturity status, perfection. You want to save the 30 programs to HDD (backup before doing a factory reset or firmware upgrade) and restore them to device at some later time? I think that will happen sooner in dex than in pcls. btw one could still produce rare examples where the observed dex behavior differs from the expected. that's sometimes also due to a rare bug in mc3k firmware or its interface specification. whenever i encounter bugs (is it fw? is it dex?) i report them to the authorities and they get fixed fast. we're really getting somewhere! 

if you check the k# list, there are only few k#'s left which i would love to see realized in the upcoming fw public release. and they're all about adding new functionality (SNB as memory buttons, shared RAM support, tov screensaver); with new functionality come new bugs. at least the memory buttons i would love to see in 1.05. The other 2 are not urgent or their debugging may delay the 1.05 release too much, we'll see.


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> with new functionality come new bugs. at least the memory buttons i would love to see in 1.05. The other 2 are not urgent or their debugging may delay the 1.05 release too much, we'll see.



So wait. Where's firmware 1.04? You're already working on 1.05 so what happened to 1.04? Any word on public release?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

SkyRc is supposedly waiting for some German trade show before they release v1.04 is it the debut of the MC3000 ???

John.



fraktl said:


> So wait. Where's firmware 1.04? You're already working on 1.05 so what happened to 1.04? Any word on public release?


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> SkyRc is supposedly waiting for some German trade show before they release v1.04 is it the debut of the MC3000 ???
> 
> John.



Well a quick google search and I found 2 candidates that look reasonable to show off a battery charger at. And they're both in 2 days!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

1.04 never reached maturity status. stayed beta. and was for critters.

i remember 2 years ago when i got new firmware and always with no word about the changes so i didnt know what to critically beta test. it is still impossible to test all functions and parameter constellations systematically. back then the UI and functions were crude, the todo list immense, everything under construction, so many items had to be revised and corrected and i am told that in no other sky firmware the team ever put in more manhours than in the mc3k fw. this feat alone makes it unimaginable that a competing hobby charger maker would be willing to go through the same long way with the aim of making a better make of mc3000 MkI.

Btw the release process goes like this: I get beta fw, test the changes, look for obvious bugs in the changes, and when sky coders think that the beta is good enough for release, they have to release it to the testing dpt first which then assigns ~2-3 weeks for systematic testing (with heavy equipment), and an internal official test report is generated including a bug report of another kind. Because of the time-consuming involvement of the testing dpt the fw team prefers to stuff as many changes as possible before submitting to that dpt.

if i didnt insist on the k-numbers, they would have released an update by now, no doubt. but then we wouldnt have those memory buttons. someone here wanted them, so lets include them in the 1.05. good that i didnt turn every listed idea into a k-number, in fact i should list them now as NOT AGREED, so that we can pass them over hehe.

so basically no news, i didnt/couldnt give any prospected public release date sollie :shrug:


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So v1.04 never got out of beta, And now we are waiting on v1.05 and with no idea of when it will be released. 

John.


----------



## verdum

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

at least we know they are working on new fw.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

apparently not everyday 1 manhour. more like 3 manhours total per week. productive ones though.

as mentioned, most manhours are spent on forthcoming sky products.

dont live with the illusion that everyday or everyweek someone at sky works on mc3k fw, pcls, hw, app or else. they are not.

mc3k is niche product on the market and a niche project to sky management, not a priority.

priorities might shift back to mc3k though, depending on user demand, response, or market.

that is the only reason why it is taking so long for them to release _this_ product's new fw.

Adding the memory buttons to the fw would take only 4 manhours to implement or 1 guy half a day. question is on which date they assign these hours to de team.

sometimes i wished i were a proficient coder myself. anybody can learn reading and writing code. but it would take me 40 hours to implement the same function.

your patience is appreciated, i need to be patient too.

once the fw team releases the final beta to the testing dpt, the days are counted from then on. that sure.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> mc3k is niche product on the market and a niche project to sky management, not a priority.
> 
> priorities might shift back to mc3k though, depending on user demand, response, or market.



I think many people are waiting to see when the MC3000 will be able to be updated before buying. When they will find a safe way to do it, the sales will be increased. Many of us are still on fw1.02.


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> I think many people are waiting to see when the MC3000 will be able to be updated before buying. When they will find a safe way to do it, the sales will be increased. Many of us are still on fw1.02.



^ This is the reason I lurked around here for a month before ordering. Waiting for FW1.04 to be released. I can only imagine how many other people are still waiting like I was. I just said screw it, I want it now, and bought it. I'm sure others are patiently waiting. But if Sky needs more consumers to purchase the mc3k, maybe they should work on getting a solid firmware on the device first. Not trying bash Sky or their testing department, or you kreisl.

All I'm saying is that from a business perspective, that outlook is just backwards. Wait for more buyers before putting manhours into a new firmware while the buyers are waiting for a new firmware. Catch 22. The proper approach should be: Put manhours into new firmware and develop a solid, useful, working firmware and watch the buyers scramble to purchase it.

:shrug: Just my 2 cents.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Wait, wait, what?

How is the device not fully functional at the moment?

Yes, there are some _small bugs_ and _minor fixes_ needed, but it's hardly an unusable product. I've been using mine everyday since I got it ~3 months ago and it's been pretty much flawless (v1.02). HJK reviewed it with v1.02 (or maybe v1.03) and he points out some of the listed bugs, but again still gives it an excellent rating.

I mean look at the list of bugs! How many of those are mission critical? Pretty much none, they're all mostly cosmetic.

This device can only get better, but if you're holding off buying it because you think it's buggy, well, I think you're way, way too focused on the negatives and on none of the positives. The only reason I can think not to buy one is the whole "fan blows the wrong way" issue, but that only affected the first run of the devices, all devices being sold now (I believe) have this issue corrected.


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Oh it's in no way non-functional at all. It works great other than Slot 1 giving me a Check Voltage error no matter which of my 30 batteries I put into it. Other 3 slots work just fine.

I was holding off buying it but just got mine like 2 weeks ago. I was just saying if I was holding off purchasing it, I'm sure others are as well. Honestly, I probably over-thought my previous post and made a bunch of non-sense. It's a fantastic product and pretty much my dream charger if only slot 1 would work. I'm sure Sky has much more to worry about than the firmware of 1 of their (already functional) chargers.

I sometimes say (type) things that should probably just stay in my head and fester for a while and never be seen by the light of day because often times things like this happen. Just re-read my post and kinda feel like a dummy lol.

So yeah, I am in no way saying the mc3k is broken, or doesn't work, or is a shoddy piece of craftsmanship. I guess all I'm really saying is I can't wait for the new firmware lol


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fraktl said:


> Oh it's in no way non-functional at all. It works great other than Slot 1 giving me a Check Voltage error no matter which of my 30 batteries I put into it. Other 3 slots work just fine.
> 
> I was holding off buying it but just got mine like 2 weeks ago. I was just saying if I was holding off purchasing it, I'm sure others are as well. Honestly, I probably over-thought my previous post and made a bunch of non-sense. It's a fantastic product and pretty much my dream charger if only slot 1 would work. I'm sure Sky has much more to worry about than the firmware of 1 of their (already functional) chargers.
> 
> I sometimes say (type) things that should probably just stay in my head and fester for a while and never be seen by the light of day because often times things like this happen. Just re-read my post and kinda feel like a dummy lol.
> 
> So yeah, I am in no way saying the mc3k is broken, or doesn't work, or is a shoddy piece of craftsmanship. I guess all I'm really saying is I can't wait for the new firmware lol



Yes, you sadly got a faulty charger. Maybe contact SkyRC directly and see if they'll help you? It's still early-days of the product and they might be willing to help you out with a replacement (even though yours encountered "a few issues" when you pulled it to bits). I would be pissed too if mine had arrived and part of it didn't work. I was pooping myself when I took mine apart to do the fan mod, and that was just the bottom cover, not the top (with all the tricky bits)


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> The only reason I can think not to buy one is the whole "fan blows the wrong way" issue, but that only affected the first run of the devices, all devices being sold now (I believe) have this issue corrected.



The fan is easy to fix. Updating, we cannot. I use my charger daily and I could not live without it. 

If you want to buy something and you know that it will be a new release in some days, you wait. If we could update the charger, there will be no reason to wait. We are waiting since january for being able to update. 

For myself, I plan to buy a second one...I'm waiting batch with fw1.05.

Being able to update our charger will have positive effects on sales. If they wait many sales to work more time on the updating process, I don't think it is a good idea.


----------



## ayah

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> I think many people are waiting to see when the MC3000 will be able to be updated before buying. When they will find a safe way to do it, the sales will be increased. Many of us are still on fw1.02.



I'm one of this type of prospective buyer. I actually have 2 C9000's but I use a single nitecore i4 for li-on. Originally, I looked for the li-on version of the C9000 only to discover it didn't exist, so I settled for the i4. saw the MC3000 post, but didn't want to risk beta-testing and thus, still waited.

actually, waiting for more sales before continuing development seems to be a common theme amongst chinese brands (the rest of the world isn't excluded, it just seems oddly more prolific in china)


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

looks like they implemented screensaver and the memory buttons in a single day 
recheck de list, the only thing left is the reworking of the RAM implementation. after that is done, i'll ask them to get the fw ready for release.
of course, the manual should be revised too at some later point in 2016. maybe after rio. hh

imho the most hilarious changes from 1.03 to 1.05 are (k#38) and (k#48), it will make ppl think wth, lol


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yea, I'm gladl that #48 made it in! That was my suggestion! I'm famous! (Wait, what?)

As for #38, I really can't believe it's actually in there. I look forward to seeing it...

Thanks again for your hard work rounding up and documenting everyone's bugs and feature requests kreisl.


----------



## propergol

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have now charged / discharged / storage charged 305 18650 cells, nearly non-stop, and now the fan is crying like a cat as it starts spinning ....
After 1 or 2 mins the sound returns to its normal level, but that's a sign off very poor quality fan.
Its manual replacement won't be a geek thing for me but a rescue.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I use to put a drop of zx1 oil (friction eliminator) on the bearing of fans, it`s normally covered with a label with the fan specifications on it, peel it back a bit add a drop of oil, then put the label back down.

It`s best to do this before any damage to the bearing it done though.

"ZX1 C76 Microlube"

John.


----------



## propergol

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

well...
I know bearing fans may need some oil soon or later, but why did Skyrc used such low quality fan?
You can't imagine opening the charger every month to put oil in the fan.

I would rather copy the fan mod already done by some or even better : try to move the discharge components outside the charger.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is the fan really low quality, sleeve bearing are cheapest and wear out quick, ball bearing are the best, did you not just get a faulty one it happens, if you use zx1 it impregnates the metal when the temp goes over 40c so you never have to add it again for a fan (I use to use zx1 on my desktop computer fans), they use this stuff in vehicle engines it has an nato part number but it`s not cheap.

Get a replacement charger, or fit a replacement fan yourself (it`s mentioned earlier in this thread)

John.



propergol said:


> well...
> I know bearing fans may need some oil soon or later, but why did Skyrc used such low quality fan?
> You can't imagine opening the charger every month to put oil in the fan.
> 
> I would rather copy the fan mod already done by some or even better : try to move the discharge components outside the charger.


----------



## Ovi_73

Hello Archie, I used this e-mail address: [email protected]. I hope the answered your questions by now. I didn't see your request.


----------



## jal

Well this is a bummer. I had the dread battery-spring breakage that others have mentioned. I put two 18650s in to charge, and roughly half an hour later I hear a disturbing metallic snap and the charger immediately starts complaining. Run over to it, the charger noticed the circuit break, and the little arm that holds negative on a battery is shoved all the way against the bottom of the tray, and moves freely.

I don't have time to take it apart atm; hopefully I can make some time this weekend to do that and read the other comments about this more closely. Not necessarily in that order.


----------



## tjh

jal said:


> Well this is a bummer. I had the dread battery-spring breakage that others have mentioned. I put two 18650s in to charge, and roughly half an hour later I hear a disturbing metallic snap and the charger immediately starts complaining. Run over to it, the charger noticed the circuit break, and the little arm that holds negative on a battery is shoved all the way against the bottom of the tray, and moves freely.
> 
> I don't have time to take it apart atm; hopefully I can make some time this weekend to do that and read the other comments about this more closely. Not necessarily in that order.


Oh no.
Did you do any mods to the charger or is it untouched?
If untouched, claim warranty!


----------



## jal

It is untouched. I forgot about warranty, I'll have to check on that. I'm getting too used to other sketchy electronics that are more constructed than produced. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## kreisl

oh snap! :sigh:


scnr :mecry:


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

It would be nice if SkyRC could, allow those who bought from China, to get replacement though Amazon or other local retailer that have now started selling the MC3000 (I know i am dreaming don't wake me up) instead of having to send the charger all the way back to China.

John.


----------



## kreisl

quick nfo update for de weekend, all k numbers have been addressed and completed apart from de fixing of beta bugs introduced since 1.04g beta. RAM support has been refined, still requires inofficial unlock code, but maybe the code can be let leaked among folum insiders np nm. it's an unclean rechargeable battery and reports about leaking specimen even in original authentic official ram chargers abound see amazons. since mc3k market release sky infoed me that they counted less than 10 indies asking for access. interesting low number. i ordered some ram batteries for my beta fw testings. aliexpress has a deal of r.a. batteries for international* destinations, much more than amazons. dex needs to be revised too for this new batt chem support.
would be interesting to see some reviews.

the new fw functions will be added to the user manual next week or so.

anyway, 1.05 development has been completed , now getting tested and debugged, then internal official test with report blablah, then it s released to production line, and the download website or server, etc

future fw updates, with small fixes where the testigng dpt doesn't need to get involved, should be made available, or leaked, within as short a frame as ive been getting the betas, i.e. quite often and regularly .

btw* due to the wealth of changes the release version name will be 1.1 most likely. from then on it makes sense to call minor updates, eg bug fixes, 1.11, 1.12 etc



Sent from Samsung Mobile


----------



## kreisl

double post thx samsung


----------



## fraktl

kreisl said:


> the new fw functions will be added to the user manual next week or so.
> 
> anyway, 1.05 development has been completed , now getting tested and debugged, then internal official test with report blablah, then it s released to production line, and the download website or server, etc



This is great news! Thanks for all your work and putting up with our whiny butts, kreisl 

Oh kreisl I also just noticed that when you click on the mc3k image in the first post, it links to someone holding an ice cream cone in front of a squuirrel! hahaha What is it with your obsession with squirrels anyways?


----------



## B-2Admirer

fraktl said:


> Thanks for all your work and putting up with our whiny butts kreisl


Perhaps re-reading this sentence will make some people realize the importance of punctuation?


----------



## kreisl

sounds like k is a mr whiny butts

lmao 

EDIT:
a brand new version of the JAR DEX file which supports RAM logging, fixes (k#53), and logs SysTemp is available from the bookmarked URL
http://tinyurl.com/jardex
( of course, most of these DEX improvements are trite if you're still on 1.03 or earlier FW HH )


----------



## jal

I just wanted to follow up on returning my MC3000 for repair. I purchased it from 'Progressiverc' on eBay. Contacted them and they promptly sent me a shipping label for a repair/exchange. (Currently, they said they are waiting on stock, but have more on order.)

I fail to point out when vendors do a good job too often, and thought pointing to a U.S. seller of these doing a good job might help someone else.


----------



## Gauss163

ProgressiveRC is well-known in the RC world for top-notch customer service, as a search will quickly confirm (see here or here for a couple random examples). 

However, one thing to be aware of is that they seem to have changed their warranty terms on the MC3000. Initially it was lited as "limited lifetime" but now it is only "1 year" - a bit disappointing.


----------



## write2dgray

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My bad .


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

1 year warranty .. is the most common with chargers

so all good here.

moving on

( and who knows, in 2 years there might be a mark two, bigger, fatter, better, more yummy one . also more expensive hh . )


----------



## jal

Gauss163 said:


> ProgressiveRC is well-known in the RC world for top-notch customer service, as a search will quickly confirm (see here or here for a couple random examples).



Thanks for the background. I got lucky - had never heard of them and was just trying to find a US seller.

On the warranty thing, I guess I suffer from lowered expectations. Although if someone came out with a seriously well-made expensive charger with a lifetime warranty, I'd be all over it. (Not saying the MC3000 isn't well built for the class, but I'm not the first to see this failure mode, and it is what I would call decent commodity electronics-quality. I'm imagining if Fluke made one.)


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> a brand new version of the JAR DEX file which supports RAM logging, fixes (k#53), and logs SysTemp is available from the bookmarked URL
> http://tinyurl.com/jardex
> ( of course, most of these DEX improvements are trite if you're still on 1.03 or earlier FW HH )


So how is (or will be) charging RAMs implemented in MC3000, I mean what kind of algorithm? CC/CV or something else?


----------



## kreisl

In MC3000 RAM charging algorithm is implemented as "_soft pulsing with 70% super pos 1/10Hz times 1.65V CC/CV target and load voltage as qualifier_" if that makes any sense to you. RAM batteries can be recharged only 25 times for full cycles and during that lifecycle the max capacity decays exponentially and the battery begins to leak. For longest practical lifecycle, rams should be recharged as soon and often as possible and never let discharged by much. .. which makes them pretty pointless as serious rechargeables imo.

Let's see if the unlock code can be leaked here on the forum once the new firmware is out...


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> 1 year warranty .. is the most common with chargers so all good here.



But all may not be good. If a vendor shortens their warranty from "limited lifetime" to "1 year" then that may well be indicative of quality problems, esp. since this vendor offers "limited lifetime" warranties on many other chargers. 



kreisl said:


> moving on



Your continued attempts to dismiss discussion of anything not completely positive is very nonconstructive (and rude). Potential buyers must be informed of both positive and _negative _aspects of the charger in order to make competent buying decisions.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Last time i checked the manual states explicitly 1 year warranty.

If you want to conspire _as to why_ a vendor does not offer a warranty period longer than the one provided by a manufacturer, then


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> In MC3000 RAM charging algorithm is implemented as "_soft pulsing with 70% super pos 1/10Hz times 1.65V CC/CV target and load voltage as qualifier_" if that makes any sense to you. If it doesnt, check dex graphics. mind you, all commercial ram chargers see amazon and taobao, they're cheap stuff, currently on the market use their own "arbitrary" charging algorithm, which i find funny. buy 3 different ram chargers, all 3 will have a different algorithm lmao. also keep in mind RAM batteries can be recharged only 25 times for full cycles and during that lifecycle the max capacity decays exponentially and the battery begins to leak. For longest practical lifecycle, rams should be recharged as soon and often as possible and never let discharged by much. .. which makes them pretty pointless as serious rechargeables lmao.
> 
> Let's see if the unlock code can be leaked here on the forum once the new firmware is out...


 Yes, I'm aware of all those deficiencies of Alkalines (RAM = Rechargeable Alkaline Manganese). Being aware is one of the reasons I never purchased RAMs, although I originally planned to try some, which is why I do have a RAM-supporting charger (I don't mean the MC3000); as one person of this forum has it in his signature, friends don't let friends use alkaline batteries. Your (apparently quoted) description of the algorithm doesn't let me visualize the graph no matter how hard I try (the best I can come up with is "_70% duty cycle at 0.1 Hz, charging terminated when the voltage, measured under charge, reaches 1.65V_"), I don't know if I should blame my English or the author's Engrish for not understanding completely  In any case, I would appreciate if you posted the graph (you do have some RAM cells, don't you?)

Not sure which algorithm my *AccuPower Accu-Manager 2010* charger uses for RAM, but someone had already posted information from the datasheet of a RAM charge/discharge controller in this thread, more specifically here.

Did the SkyRC team change algorithm to pulsing because constant current was thought to be the cause of RAMs leaking in testing?


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> If you want to conspire why a vendor does not offer a warranty period longer than the one provided by a manufacturer



Get your facts straight. ProgressiveRC originally offered a "limited lifetime" warranty both on their Amazon page and their website. But now it has been downgraded to "1 year". There is no "conspiring". Only facts - which may be useful in purchasing decisions.



kreisl said:


> and rude squirrels are not rude. they are still cute



Rather: some squirrels are so viciously protective of their babies that they are scary (not cute).


----------



## kreisl

@B-2Admirer
i have no further info at this time sollie. my impression is that their ram algorithm implementation is empirical and experimental at best, something my dog would approve but not the NASA. yes i have ram batteries for testing but i am myself on the road. will try to find out more, maybe a dex graph or more English kauderwelsh


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Maybe somebody should ask HJK to test some RAM cells on his MC3000 and give us his opinion on the how well they charge.

John.


----------



## fraktl




----------



## B-2Admirer

Not sure about the most appropriate warranty term for the charger, but it is my deepest conviction that nothing can possibly be cuter than pygmy jerboa... Yes, such an animal actually exists, I've got a video link to prove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gFaZz8grZA


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Get your facts straight. ProgressiveRC originally offered a "limited lifetime" warranty both on their Amazon page and their website. But now it has been downgraded to "1 year". There is no "conspiring". Only facts - which may be useful in purchasing decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> Rather: some squirrels are so viciously protective of their babies that they are scary (not cute).



What a vendor/retailer offers in regards to a warranty is no reflection on the quality of the product, merely a commercial decision of the retailer with regard to customer service.

To state that any reduction of a vendors warranty "may well be indicative of quality problems" relating to a manufacturers product is merely indicative of the number of functioning brain cells of the poster making the statement and not the quality of the product.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> What a vendor/retailer offers in regards to a warranty is no reflection on the quality of the product, merely a commercial decision of the retailer with regard to customer service.



I don't know where you got such a strange idea, but I can assure you that having worked with many vendors on related matters, that quality control issues often play a strong role when making decisions on the length of warranty offered. I am aware of cases where the warranty has been reduced when serious quality control issues have arisen (in fact I have been consulted on some such decisions). Whether or not that plays any role in the case at hand remains to be seen, which is why I was careful to qualify my remark, writing that it "_may _indicate ...", i.e. it is one possibility. 

Warranty length, quality control, etc. are all factors that will help educated buyers make informed decisions when comparing this charger to alternatives. Fan-boyish attempts to suppress discussion of anything remotely negative does a great disservice to potential buyers - who deserve accurate and balanced information (not only a view through rose colored glasses).


----------



## Devon

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> I don't know where you got such a strange idea, but I can assure you that having worked with many vendors on related matters, that quality control issues often play a strong role when making decisions on the length of warranty offered. I am aware of cases where the warranty has been reduced when serious quality control issues have arisen (in fact I have been consulted on some such decisions). Whether or not that plays any role in the case at hand remains to be seen, which is why I was careful to qualify my remark, writing that it "_may _indicate ...", i.e. it is one possibility.
> 
> Warranty length, quality control, etc. are all factors that will help educated buyers make informed decisions when comparing this charger to alternatives. Fan-boyish attempts to suppress discussion of anything remotely negative does a great disservice to potential buyers - who deserve accurate and balanced information (not only a view through rose colored glasses).



What is obvious if you read the forums here and elsewhere is that this product has no inherent flaws. If a defect or failure does become apparent it will likely occur, and I put this in the 99 percentile range, in the first 4 weeks, dependent upon use of course, and certainly in the 99.9 percentile range in the first 12 months.

A reduction of warranty from 'limited lifetime ' (whatever that means) to 1 year by a vendor is merely a commercial decision. A correlation may be drawn but a cause cannot, therefore any suggestion that the product is inferior as a result of the vendors warranty terms is merely bah humbug.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@Devon Maybe you should remove your rose-colored glasses and review some of the reported problems here and elsewhere, from poorly designed cooling system, to assembly problems, various software problems, etc. Whether or not those are serious or not is for each user to decide - based upon their intended use, etc.

In any case, I have no interest in engaging with you in further illogical fan-boyish debates. I merely stated some facts about warranties. The facts are what they are and they will continue to be posted - whether they shed positive or negative light.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Devon said:


> To state that any reduction of a vendors warranty "may well be indicative of quality problems" relating to a manufacturers product is merely indicative of the number of functioning brain cells of the poster making the statement and not the quality of the product.





Gauss163 said:


> @Devon Maybe you should remove your rose-colored glasses
> In any case, I have no interest in engaging with you in further illogical fan-boyish debates. I /QUOTE]
> 
> Two examples of disrespectful behavior toward fellow members, and also baiting comments. See CPF Rule 4. KEEP IT NICE GUYS.
> 
> Bill


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> I would appreciate if you posted the graph


here we go:







the squirrel likes the algorithm, my dog doesn't. 

so i told the dog not to bother and to go away.

very simple.


----------



## B-2Admirer

So it's "quasi CC/CV" with pulsating current. What was the size and rated capacity of the cell (I assume it wasn't fully discharged initially)?


----------



## kreisl

The green AA batteries on Aliexpress Taobao Alibaba have no rating and come fully charged ~1.6V (rounded value). Yes from what i can tell it is a quasi CC CV with pulsating current, very interesting. On the initial discharge with 500mA and discharge reduce at 0.75V one gets over 2000mAh after many hours of discharge. More data i dont have sorry. More data you would find in a battery leview thread.

ha


----------



## Gigaslux

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Dubois said:


> Very interesting. I remember reading about this some time ago, and held off buying the Opus. I'm glad I did, as the Opus has needed a few releases to deliver the goods.
> 
> I assume the RC crowd and the fast growing vaper industry will be the biggest market, but I'll be interested to see the final specs for this.
> 
> No idea on price yet?



I bought two MC3000 and both have had the pins holding the slot springs broken after a pair of days. They are very thin plastic pins. SkyRC told me that a new version is coming with stronger pins but they refunded me just one unit. Also, they told that the new version will be available only when the old version still in stok will be finished. 
The slot 1 gives always lower value of mAh and slot 3 always bigger values. Also, slots 1 and 2 discharge by 0,65A whereas slots 3 and 4 discharge by 1A. Forget discharging by 2A if you don't improve the fan.


----------



## billcushman

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Where did you buy your MC3000s?  When were they delivered?  Thanks.



Gigaslux said:


> I bought two MC3000 and both have had the pins holding the slot springs broken after a pair of days. They are very thin plastic pins. SkyRC told me that a new version is coming with stronger pins but they refunded me just one unit. Also, they told that the new version will be available only when the old version still in stok will be finished.
> The slot 1 gives always lower value of mAh and slot 3 always bigger values. Also, slots 1 and 2 discharge by 0,65A whereas slots 3 and 4 discharge by 1A. Forget discharging by 2A if you don't improve the fan.


----------



## Swede74

jal said:


> Well this is a bummer. I had the dread battery-spring breakage that others have mentioned. I put two 18650s in to charge, and roughly half an hour later I hear a disturbing metallic snap and the charger immediately starts complaining. Run over to it, the charger noticed the circuit break, and the little arm that holds negative on a battery is shoved all the way against the bottom of the tray, and moves freely.





Gigaslux said:


> I bought two MC3000 and both have had the pins  holding the slot springs broken after a pair of days. They are very thin  plastic pins. SkyRC told me that a new version is coming with stronger  pins but they refunded me just one unit. Also, they told that the new  version will be available only when the old version still in stok will  be finished.



I was hoping I would never have the dubious pleasure of joining your not so little club. Alas, I can now call myself not only a proud, but also a frustrated and somewhat disappointed, owner of the MC3000. 

Before my very eyes, as I was about to press a key to light up the screen to see how far the charging of three 18650 cells had progressed, something snapped and there is no longer any tension keeping the cell in place in slot #3. 

I have contacted SkyRC and MacGyvered the charger.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Oh man, should i be worried?


----------



## haute

Swede74 said:


> I was hoping I would never have the dubious pleasure of joining your not so little club. Alas, I can now call myself not only a proud, but also a frustrated and somewhat disappointed, owner of the MC3000.
> 
> Before my very eyes, as I was about to press a key to light up the screen to see how far the charging of three 18650 cells had progressed, something snapped and there is no longer any tension keeping the cell in place in slot #3.
> 
> I have contacted SkyRC and MacGyvered the charger.



What is your hardware version?

Analyzing HKH version is revision 1.3 and appears to have spring brackets, quite robust.

The currently marketed version is 1.4


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Oh man, should i be worried?



I think it's safe to call these snappings a consequence of a design flaw at this point, just pray it happens under warranty because after reading Gigaslux post just above it looks like Skyrc is sweeping this under the rug, we'll probably be ordered to move on


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Do the posts break when the charger is cold or after it has warm-up, is heat an issue? what hardware version do you have?

John


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Do the posts break when the charger is cold or after it has warm-up, is heat an issue? what hardware version do you have?



This is a single datapoint, but mine broke while warm - I had been charging two cells for about half an hour when a post snapped in one of the trays that was charging.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yikes, I wonder if this is a quality control issue, or a “nature of the beast” thing and all units are destined for breakage. 

I have had my MC3K since they have been available and it is my main charger. I use it almost daily. I charge AAA, AA, 18650, 26650 and D cells. So far I have had no problems with the springs.

Of those that have had your spring mechanism break, what would you rate your usage level? Light, medium, heavy or super heavy?


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



jal said:


> This is a single datapoint, but mine broke while warm  - I had been charging two cells for about half an hour when a post  snapped in one of the trays that was charging.



My charger was warm too, I had been charging three cells for about an  hour. The fan was not running when it happened, but it had been at  intervals during charging. The fan came on more frequently while I was  discharging the same cells on the same night, so the temperature of the  charger had fluctuated over the course of about four hours. It never got  hot to the touch, nor did the cells; I didn't detect any smell of  overheated electronics or plastic, and the fan was never on for more  than 10-15 minutes at a time. 



fnsooner said:


> Of those that have had your spring mechanism break, what would you rate your usage level? Light, medium, heavy or super heavy?



I would rate my usage level as medium. I have had my MC3000 since April 21 or 22, almost exactly one month.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Now when the springs snaps, does the platic pin just comes off or break off?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



romteb said:


> I think it's safe to call these snappings a consequence of a design flaw at this point, just pray it happens under warranty because after reading Gigaslux post just above it looks like Skyrc is sweeping this under the rug, we'll probably be ordered to move on


Well this just sucks. How does the warranty work if shipped from international to U.S?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thats why i asked a few post back, it`s a pity us early buyers who got ours from China could not get a replacment from Amazon Ect now that they are sold in the UK, US, EU now, as it`s expensive to send back to China.

It would only take authorisation from SkyRC to make this happen i suppose.

John.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeah, at 120 bucks. I wonder how many hardware changes before it's final? The worst case scenario, If it becomes too much of a hassle for SkyRC. They could scrap the mc3k project altogether considering it's their side project. Guess that is the downside of a niche product. If it works, great, otherwise it is business as usual.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

sky produces mc3k in small batches like two hundreds and they have been switching suppliers to get the best possible material quality for the plastic casing. very oo:few samples out of one recent batch must have had sub standard quality, so warranty applies for the broken parts, the dealer carries the spare part for repair. every production unit undergoes burn-in testing procedure, continuous stress test at max charge load and max discharge load watts.

in every production batch there are minimal changes, i.e. improvements, to the assembly, construction, material, but i stopped caring. heck my sample is an early production unit engineering sample with old LCD and unplated metal contacts, no FCC sticker or model marking, nothing. i heard that future buttons will be black with recessed symbols. ppl can paint the symbols with any preferred color!!

i also dont care about the quality of the app. i am old skool squirrel who prefers to hit the physical buttons on the charger. For the memory SNB's (UP+SNB) and the Batt IR measurement (UP+DOWN) one actually needs to hit the buttons .. to get simultaneous pressing. and I wuv it! so much fun haha.

what i do care about is the continuous improvement of the firmware, like debugging, and of the dex. both are now getting there, where i wanted to see them .. both providing the basic functions with no more essential bugs. Serious battery testing, serious logging of capacity and energy, reference measurements can be taken now .. after checking the electrical connection (TOV: UP+DOWN) and having user-calibrated the device.

a word on factory calibration. it has been confirmed by Sky that the m3k factory calibration is a "_fast parallel procedure involving resistors_", meaning that no FLUKE is used to calibrate each slot individually. The factory calibration is good enough for most users who don't own a precision multimeter or don't know the difference between amperage and voltage, and it _is_ refinable thru the more accurate user calibration procedure as outlined in the manual. 

Is factory calibration inferior to user calibration then?

If i invest a high resolution FLUKE and 1 hour of care and time, yes. If i invest a 3$ ebay multimeter, then no. So in general yes, but it depends on the accuracy and resolution of your electronic equipment and your manual technical experience. To be blunt, if i let my lil niece do the user calibration, then no, factory calibration will _not _be inferior to her user calibration.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> very oo:few samples out of one recent batch must have had sub standard quality,



"very few" is pure conjecture.  It would seem more logical to infer that the above-mentioned problems are inherent in the design, and may eventually affect all units of that design once they suffer the right combination of stress induced by mechanical flexing, heat cycling, etc.

It might make sense for MC3000 owners to proactively reinforce the spring posts, since they're much harder to rebuild _after _they snap.



kreisl said:


> oh snap! :sigh:



Hmmm....


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> Of those that have had your spring mechanism break, what would you rate your usage level? Light, medium, heavy or super heavy?



I received mine April 6th, it broke May 12th. I used it heavily for about a week after getting it - cycled 36 18650s, put it through its paces with a number of size/chemistry variations. Since then, pretty light use charging 18650/26650/16340s for normal use - been busy and haven't played with my toys much.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So Is it matter of time that the spring could snap on my charger?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It`s the plastic post that the spring is attached to that breaks, that why i though temperature could play a part in the failure.

EDIT: You can see the posts poking though the pcb in photo 1, and the posts themself in photo 2 three quarters way down the page, in HKJ/Henriks Review 

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger SkyRC MC3000 UK.html

John.

EDIT2: Here is a photo of a post that has been glued that a CPF member posted.









MarioJP said:


> So Is it matter of time that the spring could snap on my charger?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

A better way to fix it. Remove the broken pin, place the spring in the pcb hole and put your broken pin in the same hole to prevent the spring from going out.




des photos


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> A better way to fix it. Remove the broken pin, place the spring in the pcb hole and put your broken pin in the same hole to prevent the spring from going out



Beware that there appears to be a trace running in front of that spring hole, so if the spring cracks through the pcb there then you'll need to repair the pcb trace - which is much harder than simply reinforcing the post with some glue or epoxy _before _it snaps.


----------



## Swede74

haute said:


> What is your hardware version?
> 
> Analyzing HKH version is revision 1.3 and appears to have spring brackets, quite robust.
> 
> The currently marketed version is 1.4



I'm sorry, I must have missed your post last time I logged in. My HW version is 1.4. (FW: 1.03)


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

That looks like a nice easy fix, as long as we remember to reinforce the insulation on that pcb trace or else  (always like using that)

*Also make sure the two thermistors mesuring the heatsink temp are still touching when you re-assemble as they can come away as they are only held with some heatsink compound.*

John.



gyzmo2002 said:


> A better way to fix it. Remove the broken pin, place the spring in the pcb hole and put your broken pin in the same hole to prevent the spring from going out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> des photos


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Beware that there appears to be a trace running in front of that spring hole, so if the spring cracks through the pcb there then you'll need to repair the pcb trace - which is much harder than simply reinforcing the post with some glue or epoxy _before _it snaps.



I saw that when I fixed it but the spring doesn't move with the tight pin. Another reason to use the broken pin.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Swede74 said:


> I would rate my usage level as medium. I have had my MC3000 since April 21 or 22, almost exactly one month.





jal said:


> I received mine April 6th, it broke May 12th. I used it heavily for about a week after getting it - cycled 36 18650s, put it through its paces with a number of size/chemistry variations. Since then, pretty light use charging 18650/26650/16340s for normal use - been busy and haven't played with my toys much.


Hmm, both bought in April. It may be batch specific. At the moment, I think I will leave mine alone. 

Thank you gyzmo and TinderBox for your pictures, links and comments. I am now caught up on what the specific problem is concerning the spring pins. I haven’t been keeping up with this thread lately.


----------



## gyzmo2002

fnsooner said:


> Hmm, both bought in April. It may be batch specific. At the moment, I think I will leave mine alone.
> 
> Thank you gyzmo and TinderBox for your pictures, links and comments. I am now caught up on what the specific problem is concerning the spring pins. I haven’t been keeping up with this thread lately.



[emoji106]

I tried epoxy glue in the photo of TinderBox but the poles were too thin. If I have another one, it takes 10 min to fix it.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have one of the the first production lot (pre-order) obtained through HK Equipment - without the FCC certification. These are presumably the oldest and if this broken pin business is generic across all production batches, these being the oldest should have more broken pins by now, on average. If that is not the case (mine is so far fine), then this broken pin issue may be more of an issue with a recent batch(es) as suggested by the squirrel.




fnsooner said:


> Hmm, both bought in April. It may be batch specific. At the moment, I think I will leave mine alone. Thank you gyzmo and TinderBox for your pictures, links and comments. I am now caught up on what the specific problem is concerning the spring pins. I haven’t been keeping up with this thread lately.


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I decided that waiting anxiously for the next pin to snap was not an option, so I opened up the MC3000 to see if there was something I could do to fix the problem. There was not, so I took a rather radical approach and removed the springs altogether. 

Upon opening the charger, I discovered that no fewer than three of the pins had snapped at the base (where they are supposed to be attached to the case, see pic) and one of them had also broken in half. I am reasonably sure this did not happen during disassembly, although I am not quite sure how the broken pins were able to hold the springs in place after they had become detached from the case. 



















Post-springectomy MacGyverism.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I am crossing my fingers that this does not happen. Would hate to see a good charger become useless


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Swede74 said:


> Post-springectomy MacGyverism.



Nicely done.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Shocking pictures. Thanks for posting.




Swede74 said:


> I decided that waiting anxiously for the next pin to snap was not an option, so I opened up the MC3000 to see if there was something I could do to fix the problem. There was not, so I took a rather radical approach and removed the springs altogether.
> 
> Upon opening the charger, I discovered that no fewer than three of the pins had snapped at the base (where they are supposed to be attached to the case, see pic) and one of them had also broken in half. I am reasonably sure this did not happen during disassembly, although I am not quite sure how the broken pins were able to hold the springs in place after they had become detached from the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post-springectomy MacGyverism.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fnsooner said:


> Hmm, both bought in April. It may be batch specific.



well observed :thumbsup:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*




kreisl said:


> (k#59) in SOV, charge Energy calculation seems off between LCD and DEX e.g. for NiMH battery (CONFIRMED, BEING FIXED)


Maybe someone has a clear agreeable opinion on this one, not too important anyway but needs a decision in our minds. I had noticed that for NiMH and Charge the charging energy differed between the LCD and the value seen in DEX. The LCD value was higher. Excel crosscheck calculations proved that DEX calculated the charging (and discharging) energy 100% correctly, based on the logged data (time, voltage, current) received at the USB data port. During NiMH Charge the device sends the off-load voltage, not the real-time on-load voltage!, to the USB, ...which is certainly the correct thing to do. Unfortunately this leads to wrong too low charged energy values in the DEX log for this battery type (NiMH, NiCd, Eneloop). The LCD value is truthful, the DEX value is calculated correctly but untruthful. Could this situation be fixed? Yes i guess. mc3k could also send the real-time on-load voltage to the USB for DEX to process for the NiMH Charge Energy calculation, or, mc3k could send the energy LCD value to the USB and DEX would only need to log, not re-calculate the Energy. Or, we just move on and accept that DEX uses off-load voltage to calculate NiMH Charge Energy and that the LCD shows the truthful value.

The fact that i discovered this discrepancy so late, numbered 59!!, says something about how important the topic NIMH Charge Energy must have been to me lol. Of course i'll figure out something, a solution which i personally can live with. - But what say you? 

In any case, it has been decided that energy contributions due to TRICKLE C. are nulled. Trickle charging can be as high as 300mA, which would mean a notable amount of energy. However for our purpose this "wasted" energy is _not _added to the energy of the previous Charge routine, neither in dex log nor on the LCD, similarly to the nulled trickle capacity. Basta. My dog doesn't like this decision, and went away. One discussion less. Fine with me. Lol.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have a "first run" MC3000. It had the fan blowing the wrong way (though it does have a CE Label)
I haven't had any issues with pegs snapping.
I am wondering if it's something to do with the unit getting too warm, have the people who's have snapped been doing a LOT of 4 x 1A discharging?

Fingers crossed mine doesn't go boom, after I reversed the fan and cut away all the fan grill I don't think I'd get a warranty fix!


----------



## millguy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I have a "first run" MC3000. It had the fan blowing the wrong way (though it does have a CE Label)
> I haven't had any issues with pegs snapping.
> I am wondering if it's something to do with the unit getting too warm, have the people who's have snapped been doing a LOT of 4 x 1A discharging?
> 
> Fingers crossed mine doesn't go boom, after I reversed the fan and cut away all the fan grill I don't think I'd get a warranty fix!



I was one of the early buyers, fan wrong way, no CE label. I have two of these.
If I remember correctly, I was the first one with a broken pin. After connecting spring to hole, I have not had any more break. Unit was cold when it broke. No heavy discharging had been done.
Since I have two units, I have relegated the one with the broken pin to charging batteries shorter than 18650's to avoid stress on remaining pins. No trouble since.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



millguy said:


> I was one of the early buyers, fan wrong way, no CE label. I have two of these.
> If I remember correctly, I was the first one with a broken pin. After connecting spring to hole, I have not had any more break. Unit was cold when it broke. No heavy discharging had been done.
> Since I have two units, I have relegated the one with the broken pin to charging batteries shorter than 18650's to avoid stress on remaining pins. No trouble since.



Yes and you gave me the trick...work perfectly since then. [emoji106]


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Reading Swede74 post it appears that one can have broken pins without noticing it.

I'll open mine to see how the pins fared, it has seen little use and lots of it with AAA , i also have a habbit to remove the charged 18650 as soon as the termination bips go off, so very little time under significant spring tension for my charger.


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Opened the charger, my pins are perfectly ok, no sign of wear or indentations :







Now the interesting part, when i first opened the charger a while back to change the orientation of the fan i noticed that the 2 plastic posts that receive the 2 central screws where stripped from the factory, i didn't pay attention at the time but looking at these posts today i noticed their failure mode is rather surprising and unlike any other plastic stripped by screw i ever saw, instead of stripping the internal thread created by the screw and giving of a few plastic shaving from their core it appears the 2 posts actually cracked entirely while there is ample space inside for the body of the screw to fit in.

This leads me to believe that the culprit of broken pins might be a strong case of POS brittle plastic wich it also appears to be at the touch and sound.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

As far as i know i don't have any broken pins, I have been mostly charging AA and AAA cells, is there anyway to reinforce the posts so they don't break with epoxy, or is it best to just clip the spring to the pcb and be done with it.

I have seen a lot of broken screw posts over the years where self tapping screws are used for cheapness.

John.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



romteb said:


> when i first opened the charger a while back to change the orientation of the fan i noticed that the 2 plastic posts that receive the 2 central screws where stripped from the factory, i didn't pay attention at the time but looking at these posts today i noticed their failure mode is rather surprising and unlike any other plastic stripped by screw i ever saw, instead of stripping the internal thread created by the screw and giving of a few plastic shaving from their core it appears the 2 posts actually cracked entirely while there is ample space inside for the body of the screw to fit in.



I've lost count of the number of times I've seen the same screw receptacle fractures on cheap powerbanks. The higher-quality units have metal threaded inserts, which is what I would have expected in a charger at this price point. But look on the squirrely bright side, maybe this means that the cases will eventually open up a bit and, by _sheer luck_, SkyRC's poor cooling design will improve with age! (so maybe you don't need to reverse those backwards fans after all).


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> The higher-quality units have metal threaded inserts, which is what I would have expected in a charger at this price point.



Calling self tapping screws screws low quality is wrong, even Fluke DMMs uses it.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Everybody has seem the brass tapped inserts that we all prefer, but has anybody else seen the very thin steel cover that slips over the plastic post that has an grove that take a machined screw, I cannot seem to find a photo of them, I dont know how small they go. (Or did i just dream them?, should i pantent the idea?)

John.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Calling self tapping screws screws low quality is wrong, even Fluke DMMs uses it.



Then shame on Fluke for cheaping out on your devices. I've also heard complaints about Fluke's self-tapping plastic mounts failing, and a web search easily finds examples, e.g. here for the $600 Fluke 289 handheld DMM, and here fore a Fluke 77 ("the plastic posts that the self tapping screws on the rear of the Fluke 77 screwed into weakened and broke over time even when I was careful taking the back off to change the battery"). To me that is unacceptable build quality at such a high price point - just as here.

Almost all of my high end equipment uses metal threaded inserts (true also for some of my midrange devices and even some lower end stuff).


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Then shame on Fluke for cheaping out on your devices. I've also heard complaints about Fluke's self-tapping plastic mounts failing, and a web search easily finds examples, e.g. here for the $600 Fluke 289 handheld DMM. To me that is unacceptable build quality at such a high price point - just as here.



Self tapping screws is only a problem in bad plastic quality or if you keep opening/closing the device without being careful. Neither Fluke or the charger is supposed to be opened a lot of time (It generally looks like the plastic quality in the charger is a bit on the low side).


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Too many old plastic bottles and flip flops in the plastic mix and not enough cowbell. 

John.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Self tapping screws is only a problem in bad plastic quality or if you keep opening/closing the device without being careful.



I gave one example above where a Fluke 77 user claims to have been careful, but the plastic posts still broke. So by your logic this implies that Fluke has bad plastic quality too in some cases. OTOH, some very cheap DMMs include metal-threaded inserts, e.g. a $40 ELENCO M-2625A.

But that is probably very little consolation to all of the current (and future) MC3000 owners with snapped posts. Oh snap! says the squirrel.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> I gave one example above where a Fluke 77 user claims to have been careful, but the plastic posts still broke. So by your logic this implies that Fluke has bad plastic quality too in some cases. But that's probably little consolation to all of the MC3000 owners with snapped posts.



With a brand that sells millions of DMM's, it is no surprise that a few has problems, but I have never heard about it as a general problem and it is not a problem on any of my Fluke DMM's.
With the MC3000 there is only sold between 1000-2000 (I guess) and we have a couple of rapports about problems with the plastic. With the snapped post the main issue is how well SkyRC handles warranty, not really the fault by itself (All product has faults, even very expensive product).


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Too many old plastic bottles and flip flops in the plastic mix and not enough cowbell.



Or maybe they were all "Flukes"!


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just got a 4 pack or Protected 18650 NCR18650B I paid a wopping *USD 16.99 *see my basic capacity test and photo`s in the link below.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?418453-NCR18650-4-pack-at-GearBest-17-94&p=4901809#post4901809

John.


----------



## jpasint

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Then shame on Fluke for cheaping out on your devices. I've also heard complaints about Fluke's self-tapping plastic mounts failing, and a web search easily finds examples, e.g. here for the $600 Fluke 289 handheld DMM, and here fore a Fluke 77 ("the plastic posts that the self tapping screws on the rear of the Fluke 77 screwed into weakened and broke over time even when I was careful taking the back off to change the battery"). To me that is unacceptable build quality at such a high price point - just as here.
> 
> Almost all of my high end equipment uses metal threaded inserts (true also for some of my midrange devices and even some lower end stuff).


Happened to my Fluke 87 and a Fluke current clamp meter. Neither of which were abused nor opened more than a few times.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It would be interesting to know if HKJ or any of the other heavy users here have had broken pin problems.





HKJ said:


> With a brand that sells millions of DMM's, it is no surprise that a few has problems, but I have never heard about it as a general problem and it is not a problem on any of my Fluke DMM's.
> With the MC3000 there is only sold between 1000-2000 (I guess) and we have a couple of rapports about problems with the plastic. With the snapped post the main issue is how well SkyRC handles warranty, not really the fault by itself (All product has faults, even very expensive product).


----------



## write2dgray

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Heavy user here, no pin problems.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Have someone find something like this with the right dimensions for the MC3000?
Dust cover: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31IXMV3BlTL.jpg


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Why dust cover? 

Is your drawer too small?


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I personally don't feel that all the broken pins are caused by heat/use, rather the PCB being bent back during production. The reason I say this is because the broken pins I had were attached by a small flap of plastic away from the battery - like the pins had been levered. I did not know my pins were broken as I only opened it to do the fan mod and saw they were only just attached. It is tricky to fit those springs as you know and I do wonder whether enough care is being put into the assembly.


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Why dust cover?
> 
> Is your drawer too small?



Why not? Dust, coffee, metallic parts, cat/squirell hair whatever cover instead of an ugly cardboard box.
No, it stands just fine beside the printer and laptop, always ready for a quick charge


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I was discharging two Protected 18650 NCR18650B in slot 1 and 4, discharge rate 2amp, somewhere around 3.8v the discharge rate dropped to 1amp my room temp was 19c and i had the charger feet out and the fan is blowing upwards.

Is this normal?

John.

EDIT: I would like a dust cover as well.



Zanders said:


> Why not? Dust, coffee, metallic parts, cat/squirell hair whatever cover instead of an ugly cardboard box.
> No, it stands just fine beside the printer and laptop, always ready for a quick charge


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

just a quick heads up for the weekend, today the latest DEX JAR version was posted on the jardex url. it's dropbox and might be difficult to reach sometimes. anyway dex now logs energy and power directly from the machine because these values are now correctly calculated by the 1.05 firmware and don't need re-calculation by dex nor cross-checking by Excel anymore. all beta testers have been doing such double triple comparisons for the past months and now the firmware is finally there, that's also why energy gets displayed with 3 decimals. energy as displayed by the LCD is accurate to the 3rd decimal, you can check!

reminds me of Breaking Bad S03 E09-E10 where Walt was puzzled by a 0.14% discrepancy of spreadsheet calculation and actual yield in the Gus basement factory. Jesse had reported minimally lower box weights, 201.8 instead of 202.1 as measured by the scale, and only after cross-checking the spreadsheet calculations would Walt wonder about etc.

in practice, none of us cares if battery energy is 2495mWh or 2484mWh. but it is good to know that at least the maker and beta testers care about "the 0.14%" discrepancy origin and were able to find out and fix. also, without the existence of dex, which had problems with the energy calculation too at first, we might have thought that "the 0.14%" error was a natural error accumulated by rounding and numerics and the coding techniques and other side playing factors like timing, start stop delay, sampling frequency difference, or a fault in excel. in the beginning, lcd, dex, and excel returned 3 notably different results: which result to trust? after dex code was corrected, excel matched the dex result. so then it was clear that the lcd was off. during discharge. and vice versa for nimh charge. and so on and so on. long story.

long story short. excel didn't lie. cross-check calculations are extremely helpful to correct fw code and dex code. but once the code has been perfected, re-calculations by dex and excel are not needed any longer. energy and power get directly logged by dex and pcls future version.

wow, code perfecting really takes some time and efforts. only to fix "0.14%" which few people care about. omg


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> wow, code perfecting really takes some time and efforts. only to fix "0.14%" which few people care about. omg



It's good that few care, because you aren't going to be able to attain that level of accuracy/precision in a consumer level charger. The limitations are in the hardware, not the software. So this seems to be much ado about nothing.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> and now the firmware is finally there


Any release date estimation?


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I have a "first run" MC3000. It had the fan blowing the wrong way (though it does have a CE Label)
> I haven't had any issues with pegs snapping.
> I am wondering if it's something to do with the unit getting too warm, have the people who's have snapped been doing a LOT of 4 x 1A discharging?
> 
> Fingers crossed mine doesn't go boom, after I reversed the fan and cut away all the fan grill I don't think I'd get a warranty fix!



I also have one from the first run of production of the charger and am able to report that I have no broken pins.

I would consider myself a 'medium use of the charger' kinda guy... :thinking:


----------



## Budda

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

SKYRC Mc3000 owner here. FW version 1.03, HW 1.4. 
I can't get in any way a firmware update: unable to get firmware from the internet.
I use the MC3000 monitor software that I got from the SKYRC MC3000 webpage.
Any help ? Thanks.


----------



## hoanle

Hi.
My SKYRC Mc3000: FW version 1.03, HW 1.4. Charger works perfectly.
I use the MC3000 monitor v1.01, app control is good but I can't firmware update: "unable to get firmware from the internet".
How to I can turn off bluetooth of charger when It's turn on?
Thank you.


----------



## Dutchman01

The MC3000 charger is it now already official released and out of a testing/beta/debug product?
I did read its made in not that much quantities, does that stay this way?

I'm very interested in this charger and do see it as a nice step above the Maha Powerex MH-C9000 charger,
however it's very hard to buy it in a local store in the Netherlands, what online shop can you guys recommend me.
What about warranty if something isn't right.


Do I need to worry now I read all that broken plastic pins inside this charger?

Regards,
Dutchman


----------



## Viking

Dutchman01 said:


> however it's very hard to buy it in a local store in the Netherlands, what online shop can you guys recommend me.



http://eu.nkon.nl/charger/multichemistry/skyrc-mc3000.html

Edit:
Sorry they are out of stock for the moment


----------



## sns

Viking said:


> http://eu.nkon.nl/charger/multichemistry/skyrc-mc3000.html
> 
> Edit:
> Sorry they are out of stock for the moment



I've bought from gearbest.com. Nice price and quite fast delivery (couple of weeks).

It's a very nice charger. way higher than MAHA. Upgraded MAHA is OPUS 3100.
However, can't get it to work with PC software. Neither Monitor nor Data Explorer do work stable under Windows 10 on my Surface Pro 2. Monitor does not fit on my screen and freezes after 10-15 minutes, DataExplorer gives errors with one module and with another usb gets broken (it becomes unavailable in device explorer)... So on the PC monitoring front its absolutely useless for the moment (for me at least).


----------



## kreisl

Dutchman01 said:


> What about warranty if something isn't right.
> 
> 
> Do I need to worry now I read all that broken plastic pins inside this charger?


If you're a worried consumer, you could ask the local NL dealer about the pins (track history and future outlook) and about mc3k warranty in general.

There is some good info regarding dis topique but *in all fairness *you better get the news/details directly from that dealer. This time it's not my place to spill the beans.

Firmware is now in the testing department and _could _be released in a few weeks. I don't see why it would _not _be released within this month. Anyway we're progressing on the timeline


----------



## Dutchman01

Viking said:


> http://eu.nkon.nl/charger/multichemistry/skyrc-mc3000.html
> 
> Edit:
> Sorry they are out of stock for the moment



Thanks, I did send a message today if/when they get it back on stock.
it seems the only Dutch shop here.

update:
I received email back and unit will be stock again in about 14 days they say.
I hope they are right.


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> I don't see why it would _not _be released within this month.


Perhaps because this month ends in less than 10 hours (GMT)? That looks like a good enough reason for it _not_ to be released


----------



## megawolf

Is anyone of you having this problem?: the contacts of my charger are becoming black! they are not silver anymore, can somebody help me and tell me what can i use to clean them?
I only use it to charge eneloops at 1A


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I see the website has been updated. I can't see anything new however.


----------



## diablo266

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I see the website has been updated. I can't see anything new however.



Damn. All I want is a way to shut up my charger. I can't use it at night because it beeps super loud at the end of a charge cycle and there's seemingly no way to shut it up in my older firmware.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



diablo266 said:


> Damn. All I want is a way to shut up my charger. I can't use it at night because it beeps super loud at the end of a charge cycle and there's seemingly no way to shut it up in my older firmware.


Yes there is. Read your manual again.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



diablo266 said:


> Damn. All I want is a way to shut up my charger. I can't use it at night because it beeps super loud at the end of a charge cycle and there's seemingly no way to shut it up in my older firmware.



You must go in the setup mode.




téléchargement de photos


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Followup to my broken pin story - I got my repaired charger back from ProgressiveRC. It works. They have very good customer service; I recommend them highly. Hopefully, the end.


----------



## kappa7

megawolf said:


> Is anyone of you having this problem?: the contacts of my charger are becoming black! they are not silver anymore, can somebody help me and tell me what can i use to clean them?
> I only use it to charge eneloops at 1A



Yes mine are the same if not worst. It's the first version of the charger, bought in december 2015. It seems that they have do some mistake in the plating process or they used a plating material that oxidize. I don't know if we can do something to bring back the original color.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

You need a cleaner that leaves an coating, like deoxit you can get it in a tube but it`s not cheap, is there any cheaper alternative, does Servosol contact cleaner leave a coating, a spray tin of that is quite cheap.

If you just use a solvent you will remove any protection renaming and leave the contacts open to even worse corroding.

would applying some 3in1 oil with a cloth, then buffing the oil off with a cloth so dust does not stick?

*EDIT*: I have done mine, I put a drop of 3in1 oil on my index finger and then rubbed it with my thumb, (use gloves if you want) then i just rubbed my finger around the slider post`s all over them, also the positive terminal, then i rubbed the oil off with a clean cloth and then used pro-gold on the terminal points that come in contact with the battery`s and now i am done, and not a drop of oil anywhere i did not want it to go.  

John.


----------



## Minimoog

Mine went black - Deoxit resolved the issue 100% with minimal effort. I just applied it, let it sit for 5 minutes and a cotton bud lifted the tarnish right away. Then I added a thin film of Progold and the tarnish has not shown any sign or returning.


----------



## Albert_

There are electrical contact cleaners and lubricants available. Some are expensive while others run from ~$5.00 to ~$10.00+ for a tube or spray.

To clean and lubricate the charger contacts I might look for a general purpose or automotive electrical contact cleaner such from CRC or Deoxit. 

Most have some sort lubricant in their formula, while others may include a dialect grease. (Dialect grease lubricates and protects but also acts as an insulator when applied to electrical contacts)

For my rails and contacts I have been using a lithium based lubricant designed for electrical contacts and switches.

Lubriplate DS-ES , cost is around ~$5.00 for a tube. Originally purchased to re-build a vehicle neutral Safety switch. Having the consistency of a light grease, lasts longer than a regular and silicon grease which has a tendency to clog and dry up.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I want to get some of the Pro Gold people are talking about.

Can someone tell me, is this it?

http://www.listeningpost.co.nz/Prod...ditioner-enhancer-__I.82993__C.55048__N.27756


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes, that is the deoxit pro-gold tube for cleaning very light dirt/corrosion (i use this most of the time on my battery charger terminals), there is deoxit red for more serous corrosion.

I have the deoxit pro-gold pen and the deoxit red pen`s for more accurate application, I have had mine for years and it lasts a long time as you use very little.

There is an new product called Deoxit Shield, it`s supposed to be applied after you use the Deoxit Gold or Deoxit Red is it worth buying ????

John.

*EDIT: For the USA 2 pack for $15.49 Delivered.
*
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Combo-DeoxI...718039?hash=item5429fd4917:g:dhsAAOSwmUdUXqOi



tjh said:


> I want to get some of the Pro Gold people are talking about.
> 
> Can someone tell me, is this it?
> 
> http://www.listeningpost.co.nz/Prod...ditioner-enhancer-__I.82993__C.55048__N.27756


----------



## megawolf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thank you guys, I bought Deoxit (the sampler kit) $15 on ebay and comes with 4 tubes (red, gold, blue, green) we'll see how it works


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My sliders are from the preproduction unit and never had the silver-plating to begin with. So my sliders look tarnished at the back side too. The front side, facing the negative pole of the battery, looks normal, no tarnishing. The production units started to have a silver-coating on the sliders (i don't know from which month's production batch on), which looks pretty nice. So you guys are saying that this silver-plating has now, after 6 months of usage, some tarnishing yes? oic. 

On another note, realizing how accurate mc3k counts capacity (k#29), also cross-checked with Excel, I have submitted the idea that mc3k sends capacity data with 1 decimal to the USB port DEX. This way the capacity graph in DEX will look smooth enough from the start and one would not need Excel to re-create crosscheck data with higher resolution like 10 or 20 decimals. For coding reasons, this is not that trivial to implement but it looks like that they're going to do it anyway. I have listed it under (k#60). As i heard, testing of the 1.10 firmware might complete before the dragon boat festival. Is 1.1 ("one one") or 1.10 ("one ten") the higher version number? Common yo would not know.. that the two are the identical version. If you enter "1.10" in a handheld calculator, the thing will return "1.1" without the trailing zero. The next version number up would be 1.11 ("one eleven"). Common yo would wonder about the jump from "one one" to "one eleven". To make things clearer, the new firmware release version number will be called 1.10, which is, clearly, 7 counts up from 1.03, and could be read as "one ten" if you will. The versions 1.04 and 1.05 were never released and there is hardly any change between 1.05 and 1.10, skipping all intermediary numbers 1.06 1.07 1.08 and 1.09.

How does this affect your life?

I didn't say that it would. I am just keeping you posted on the thought process now that we are nearing the release. lol


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> How does this affect your life?
> 
> I didn't say that it would. I am just keeping you posted on the thought process now that we are nearing the release. lol



Eagerly waiting for this release, as it is a very nice device and yet I cannot use it with Win10 Tablet for overnight analysis. With neither of software (dex or original).


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Is 1.1 ("one one") or 1.10 ("one ten") the higher version number? Common yo would not know.. that the two are the identical version. If you enter "1.10" in a handheld calculator, the thing will return "1.1" without the trailing zero. The next version number up would be 1.11 ("one eleven"). Common yo would wonder about the jump from "one one" to "one eleven". To make things clearer, the new firmware release version number will be called 1.10, which is, clearly, 7 counts up from 1.03, and could be read as "one ten" if you will. The versions 1.04 and 1.05 were never released and there is hardly any change between 1.05 and 1.10, skipping all intermediary numbers 1.06 1.07 1.08 and 1.09.
> 
> How does this affect your life?



Warning: Wildly off topic.

Unfortunately, versioning schemes effect my life directly. It is an occupational hazard. That's why I quickly spot broken version schemes.

Versioning doesn't work like a calculator. There's are a few methods that are formal, in that it is well defined and embedded in other software (if you've ever used Linux, the package managers like yum and apt use them, therefor enforcing their use), but not part of any standards body output. One pretty widely used method is called "semantic versioning", and you can read about it at http://www.semver.org/ . But there are others, and of course a wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning .

Anyway, the problem with the scheme here is that it is ambiguous, because of the leading zero ofter the decimal. We don't have a way of knowing if 1.1 is the first version after 1.0 or the 10th. Or a different example: there's no way to write software that can reliably determine if 1.11 is newer than 1.2.

Since nobody's writing package managers or configuration managers for the MC3000, it doesn't really matter. I do this stuff for a living, so it is hard to not point out the issue. Here's an example of the sort of problems that incompatible versioning assumptions cause from one of the major Linux families: http://blog.jasonantman.com/2014/07/how-yum-and-rpm-compare-versions/ .

Anyway, I'm sorry to inflict all of that detail about versioning. No, you're not getting those minutes back, but you asked how this affects my life... there are careers where this stuff becomes fodder for heated arguments.

Back to batteries 'n such.


----------



## Beckler

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Instead of going thru 3200 posts  I thought I'd just ask: what's the latest on the quality problems? Is everything fixed, or if I get one today from illumination supply (illumn) will it crack apart and explode after the first use?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

No unaffected stock at the moment, we still do not know if the plastic posts breaking was down to poor quality plastic or the posts being damaged during assembly.

Some heavy users have had no problems when others have, we dont know if any specific batches were affected, though SkyRC is supposed to produce the MC3000 in batches of 200 according to what i have read on this thread.

If you decide to buy an MC3000 get it from somewhere it easy to get a refund/replacment like one sold and shipped from by Amazon.

Though i got my MC3000 from Gear Best for £65 (did not get charged duty on import) when Amazon UK has it for £100-115

John.



Beckler said:


> Instead of going thru 3200 posts  I thought I'd just ask: what's the latest on the quality problems? Is everything fixed, or if I get one today from illumination supply (illumn) will it crack apart and explode after the first use?


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Is 1.1 ("one one") or 1.10 ("one ten") the higher version number? Common yo would not know.. that the two are the identical version. If you enter "1.10" in a handheld calculator, the thing will return "1.1" without the trailing zero. The next version number up would be 1.11 ("one eleven"). Common yo would wonder about the jump from "one one" to "one eleven".



Actually I wouldn't. 

In math there is no such thing called one point ten (1.10) or one point eleven (1.11) or one point twenty one (1.21) for that matter. The latter ones are correctly called one point one one and one point two one. 
The reason for the rule is quite simple. Eleven is a higher number than three, therefore if such a number excisted one point eleven would obviously be higher than one point three. One point one one on the other hand is rightfully lower than one point three (1.3).


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Viking said:


> Actually In math there is no such thing called one point ten (1.10) or one point eleven (1.11) or one point twenty one (1.21) for that matter. The latter ones are correctly called one point one one and one point two one.
> The reason for the rule is quite simple. Eleven is a higher number than three, therefore if such a number excisted one point eleven would obviously be higher than one point three. One point one one on the other hand is rightfully lower than one point three (1.3).



It seems you are confusing syntax vs. semantics, and numbers vs. orders.The (parts) of the names one uses for (real) _numbers _need not behave the way you imply. You will find mathematicians that pronounce 1.11 either as one-point-eleven or one-point-one-one. They both denote the same real number. But version numbers don't generally denote real numbers. Rather, they denote certain types of orderings (possibly partial and/or nonlinear), e.g. lexicographical or other types of orderings. The mistake comes from confusing notations for numbers with notations for orderings.

Here is an analogy. Your argument is similar to claiming that mathematicians never use the notation 4/8 for 1/2 since then 4/8 > 3/4 since 4>3 and 8>4. But you cannot compare fractions that naive way based on a simple comparison of their parts. And we don't force a unique choice of notation (or representation) for fractions because doing so would be extremely inconvenient, e.g. to add fractions it is simplest to choose notations for both with a common denominator (so not necessarily in lowest terms), e.g. 1/2 + 1/8 = 4/8 + 1/8 = (4+1)/8 = 5/8, where the 4/8 rep proved handy.

This freedom to choose convenient notation or representations of objects is widely exploited in math. For example, when working with congruences or modular arithmetic, say mod 10, we may prefer to choose the smaller rep -1 vs 9 since it simplifies many calculations, e.g. when computing powers 9^2n = (-1)^2n = 1^n = 1 (mod 10), i.e. even powers of naturals ending in 9 will end in 1.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@Gauss163

In my post I don't relate to software releases, but pure mathematics behind the reason why *I* personally wouldn't be confused.

It's true that many people me included are often (wrongly) calling decimal numbers one point ten or one point eleven and so forth on a daily basis . But it is not true these are correct callings. Not in danish anyway, and as far as I know not in english either.
You can on the other hand call e.g 1.11 one eleven hundredth, but that shouldn't be confused with one point eleven.
Quite a few scholars has written articles on the matter, and the problems that arises from not pronounce decimals in the correct manner. 




> This article gives information about how to say and write numbers in English. It also outlines some of the differences in the use of numbers between British and American English.
> 
> 0.75 British English nought point seven five
> American English zero point seven five
> 
> http://www.macmillandictionaries.com/MED-Magazine/July2004/21-Language-Awareness-Numbers-UK.htm





> Welcome to EnglishClub, helping you learn or teach English — from grammar for learners to worksheets for teachers
> 
> 
> *Decimals Numbers
> 
> *We can describe numbers *smaller than one* by using fractions or *decimals*. Today, the decimal system is more common than fractions.
> To indicate a decimal number we use a point (.) and this includes money such as dollars and cents.
> Look at these decimal examples:
> 
> 3.45 three point four five *(NOT three point forty-five)*
> https://www.englishclub.com/vocabulary/numbers-decimal.htm



​


> _Kaye Stacey_*, Foundation Professor of Mathematics Education at the University of Melbourne:
> *
> In the last newsletter, Bruce Moody has pointed out that there is a strong link between the way that students read decimal numbers and the way that they think about them. For instance, they read numbers such as 0.75 as "oh point seventy five" and, as a result, believe that 0.75 is larger than 0.8 because they compare the whole number 75 with the whole number 8. They conclude that 0.75 > 0.8 because 75 > 8.
> Research in many countries finds that many children, especially in upper primary school,think like this. Like Bruce, in our Australian research, we have also found that *children who say "oh point seventy five" rather than the correct "oh point seven five"* are especially likely to have this misconception and we advise our teachers to use this as a warning sign to investigate how astudent is thinking about decimals.
> 
> http://nzmaths.co.nz/sites/default/files/pdf/Newsletter4.pdf


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@Viking It is not reasonable to expect to find reliable information on mathematical language (and concepts) from random websites on English language. Despite what the (natural) language mavens may claim, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to notate (or dictate) radix notation for real numbers. Keep in mind that most English majors have little knowledge of how math is used at higher levels. 

In particular, professional mathematicians often greatly overload ("abuse") notation for various reasons (e.g. to highlight certain analogies). Mathematical language is defined by its use, not by any artificial constraints that might be imposed by natural language rules. Nor by elementary pedagogical constraints. Grade-school teachers may insist on rigid use of a notation that is less likely to lead students astray, but that matters little to competent practitioners at higher levels - who have long mastered the necessary skills to disambiguate overloaded notation from ambient context.

Here is a less trivial example that illustrates these points. When you first learn modular arithmetic most teachers will strictly disallow use of modular fractions because they can lead to problems if you are not careful. But when you learn more algebra you will discover (from "universal" properties of fraction rings) that a familiar arithmetic of fractions exists for all fractions writable with denominator coprime to the modulus m (these form a _subring _of Q). Indeed then, by Bezout, the denominator is invertible, so the fraction a/b ≡ a_b_−1​ (mod m). For these fractions all of the the well-known grade-school fraction arithmetic is valid: a/b + c/d ≡ (ad+bc)/bd, (a/b)(c/d) ≡ ac/(bd), etc, e.g. 1/2 - 1/3 ≡ 1/6 holds for any modulus coprime to 6, e.g. it becomes 3 - 2 ≡ 1 (mod 5), and 4 - 5 ≡ 6 (mod 7), etc. 

And just as the introduction of fractions greatly simplifies integer arithmetic, so too it may greatly simplify modular arithmetic. For example, when combined with Fermat or Euler's theorem it can be used to compute b'th roots c^(1/b) when b is coprime to φ(m) and c is coprime to m, since then, by Euler, c^φ(m) ≡ 1 so exponents on c can be interpreted mod m, so we need only compute n ≡ 1/b (mod m) then c^(1/b) ≡ c^n (mod m). Thus b'th root calculation simplifies to computing powers (which are computable in polynomial time by repeated squaring). Such modular arithmetic plays a key role in RSA cryptography and similar schemes.

This is a simple yet striking example of how algebraists have overloaded fraction notation to exploit analogies between integer arithmetic and modular arithmetic (an analogy whose (algebraic) semantics is clarified when one studies the properties of general fraction rings and localizations in abstract algebra). 

Many elementary-level teachers deem "wrong" such fractional modular arithmetic. But, as we saw above, this is not mathematically correct. A better explanation would be that this can be made rigorous but it depends on material outside the scope of a first course (though it can be presented in a completely elementary way). However, to be fair, it should be pointed out that many elementary teachers may not be familiar with these ideas since they are not usually taught until a second university course in abstract algebra, e.g. a course in commutative algebra (which is not a requirement for teaching at an elementary level). Nonetheless, this provides a good example of how judgements made by non-experts can be very misleading.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This is not something I looked up on the internet, but something I knew from written textbooks as a student. Most mathematical scholars will agree on that 1.11 is not read One-point-eleven, but one-point-one-one. Not just the ones I referred to. 


Enough said


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@viking I've attended thousands of lectures in mathematics and science and I can assure you that lecturers dictate or notate numbers in whatever manner proves most enlightening for the context.

For example, if I was talking to you about the differences in charging voltages between two cells I might say: my new cells charge to four point one _ninety-nine_, but my old cells charge only to four point one _seventy-seven_, a _twenty-two_ mV difference. By verbally emphasizing the 99 and 77 and combining them into two-digit numbers I both draw the listener's attention to the contextually significant parts of the numbers and, further, put them into a form that facilitates the mental calculation 99-77 = 22 mV. This would be much less clear if instead I said four point one nine nine and four point one seven seven.

Analogous remarks hold for monetary calculation. You paid one dollar _twenty five_ and your Ultrafire costs one dollar_ thirteen_, so your change is _twelve _cents. Again, as above, this is more intuitive than simply listing the digits.

Mathematical notation is not constrained by anything outside of mathematics, just as its concepts are not constrained by anything in the real world. The liberty to choose appropriate notation is essential for effective mathematical communication. Most professional mathematicians would get a good chuckle if some layperson told them they were wrongly dictating numbers according according to some random website or elementary textbooks.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Now you seem to twist the subject.
As already said, quite a few (wrongfully) read 1.11 as one-point-eleven, that is not to debate.
What we are discussing is the _correct_ way to read it. 

Imagine a student at virginia tech was asked to read the decimal 1.11 loud for the class by the teacher, and said one-point-eleven. I think we both know he would be corrected right away. 
Among mathematicians, and _especially _inside classrooms for educational purposes that way is not the usual practise. After All there is a reason for the rule, eleven is higher than three, whereas one-one is not.

To be honest I don't recall ever heard a mathematician read a decimal number the wrong way. I believe it is a minority of people, not exactly a little minority, but minority nevertheless that doesn't know this rule among common people. But among mathematicians they are far apart.

I don't wanna hijack this thread, so this is definitely gonna be my last post on the matter.
How you think a decimal number should be read is entirely up to you. Good morning sir


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Looks like this sort of off topic conversation can go on forever. Let's get back to the charger.

Bill


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

In part 94 of my ongoing MC3000 saga, I popped 4 18650s in to it today, set them to go, and approximately 90 seconds later the spring pin in slot 1 let go. (Last time, pre-vendor repair, it was slot 4.)

I don't think I'm going to bug ProgressiveRC with this again. If we keep playing postal-ping-pong with it, I'll never get any use out of it. So I guess I'll try to find some time this weekend to see how I want to go about fixing it.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

About disassembly, perfect assembly and whatnot. I am hearing that
- the PCB's do have an extra sticker on the PCB now which marks the production date (year, month). the PCB version itself has been 1.5 since spring, and the upcoming firmware will honor this. either info cannot be verified by the end consumer unless the charger is completely disassembled. re-assembly is a total pita as everyone knows by now.
- the two thermal sensors for SysTemp are now attached to the heat sink with thermal glue instead of thermal paste. and extra care is taken that the contacting is as good as it gets, practically a touching contact. thermal glue was needed since the heat sink, mechanically fixed only through the drain of the mos, can have minimal play: the heat sink is not firmly fixed to the PCB but only firmly fixed to the drains.
- extra care is taken to solder the four thermal sensors for BattTemp with optimal length on the PCB such that less or no thermal paste is needed on the tip of the sensors. the very first production batch last year didn't have any thermal paste on the BattTemp sensors and only later did the production change that detail.
- if anyone wonders why the connection of the fours mos to the cooler looks "asymmetrical" because of the use of some yellow/orange spacer, rubber, sheet or something for three mos and none for the fourth, and thinks about removing it to make things look more symmetrical, then don't do it. clearly you don't know what you're doing there! in a symmetrical life the yellow stuff would be four mos wide/long, not three. yet the guys put some thoughts into it, only three is needed. anyway, they apply thermal paste at the mos cooler interface too which is good practice in my boox.
- no more grease/oil/lubricant is applied on the rails
- the sharp edges of the sliders are as is and the supplier is trying harder to supply less sharp-edged sliders. no promises that she will succeed, so whoever is unhappy about the sliding action (or possibly creating scratches in the rails ouch) could round off the slider edge on his own, i don't mind. i did it too and a few others in dis thread did it too.
- a month ago sky started shipping out units with improved bottom cases. those cases have a recessed area for the label sticker, built-in spacers and longer brackets for securing the upwards blowing fan perfectly snapped in, and with minimal removaglue at 2 corners for guaranteed no rattling/vibrational/scratching unnatural noise, and reinforced brackets construction which should live a long life no matter how often you clip in and clip out the fan. 
- have there been (in the recent past, now, or soon) clear improvements to the upper case, the pin issue been addressed? as mentioned earlier, in all fairness yadda yadda so prospective buyers can talk about this with their local dealer or sky. of course i know the answer 
- tests have been conducted with the cooler with vertical fins. test results are unclear and the improvement/non-improvement of the cooling effect seems to be eaten by the production assembly see points mentioned above. in a perfect 1:1 switcharoo scenario there is a measurable improvement of 2-4C or 3-5C, depending on the load situation and the environmental situation. at max load or in a cool environment to boot with it's the higher value, at half load or in a warm environment it's the lower. this makes physically perfect sense see fourier law. basically the improvement is too low to be etc. Clearly, on that "hot summer holiday" at full load the internal temperature would hit the 85C threshold anyway, no matter vertical or horizontal fins. so there will be no changes to the cooler-fan system. to be clear, one could wish for better cooling for DISCHARGE at high loads only. for CHARGING at high loads, the internals are far away from the 85C threshold. so no concerns about a hot charger when you do charging. 
- sky has scheduled to ramp up production this month for various good positive reasons, i am glad to hear the undisclosed news.
- firmware 1.10 has been tested and approved by the testing dpt but the release will be delayed because of (k#60) sorry my bad hhh
- development of the two blue tooth appz android ios has been put on hold because of the new firmware release. too many changes in the new firmware, blows the app developers' minds 

newsflash?

over.


----------



## Rapster

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks for the update, squirrel boy!


----------



## Dutchman01

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks for the head up *kreis*.

nkon.nl confirmed improved production version to me, and did confirm to have that version stock in few weeks as they did order it. I'm looking forward to buy the newer version when they arrived.


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



jal said:


> If we keep playing postal-ping-pong with it, I'll never get any use out of it. So I guess I'll try to find some time this weekend to see how I want to go about fixing it.












This is how I fixed it, after having removed the springs. Or "fixed" it, I should say - quotation marks seem appropriate in this case. It works surprisingly well, although the rubber bands are in the way when I insert cells, and the landing gear has to remain retracted. 

I decided not to play postal ping-pong at all, but I did contact SkyRC via email when the first pin snapped (later I discovered that three pins had snapped). I sent them and email on May 20th, but I have still not heard from them. Granted, I did not ask them any questions so much as informed them about what happened, and indicated I would consider it a nice gesture if they offered me a discount if I decided to buy a replacement charger. I know they are not obligated to offer me any discounts, and I take full responsibility for voiding the warranty by opening the MC3000 and trying to repair it myself, but still, I would have appreciated a reply to my email. 

I should mention that I have only made one attempt (so far) to contact them, from a Yahoo email address, so it is very possible that my email got trapped in a spam filter or was overlooked rather than disregarded.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Swede74 have you not tried attaching the springs to the post holes in the pcb as mentioned earlier in this thread.

John.


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Swede74 have you not tried attaching the springs to the post holes in the pcb as mentioned earlier in this thread.
> 
> John.



I thought about it, but got cold feet when I read this post.



Gauss163 said:


> Beware that there appears to be a trace running in front of that spring hole, so if the spring cracks through the pcb there then you'll need to repair the pcb trace - which is much harder than simply reinforcing the post with some glue or epoxy _before _it snaps.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Swede74 said:


> I thought about it, but got cold feet when I read this post.



If you put the broken pin in the hole after fixing the spring, I don't know how the spring could cut the trace if it doesn't move.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> If you put the broken pin in the hole after fixing the spring, I don't know how the spring could cut the trace if it doesn't move.



If the thin part of the PCB in front of the spring cracks from mechanical stress caused by the spring tension then the trace will be cut.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> If the thin part of the PCB in front of the spring cracks from mechanical stress caused by the spring tension then the trace will be cut.



No problem since that time with daily use. I'm even surprised that the others do not break.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> No problem since that time with daily use. I'm even surprised that the others do not break.



How tight are the springs? With squirrely claims of "1mAh std dev" I'd expect them to be tighter than the nuts on a new bridge, in order to reduce contact resistance enough to have any hope for such claims. If so, the pcb may not hold up over time. If not, then so much for those claims.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Just took this picture. The spring is at the same position without cutting the PCB. 




hébergeur images


----------



## Gauss163

Any lucky you, the one that broke appears to be furthest from the trace. The one right above it appears to be twice as close to the trace.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If I have a problem with this repair someday, you will be the first to know.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

How about replacing the post with a nylon nut and bolt, then attach the spring to that, what is the diameter of the posts?

John.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> If I have a problem with this repair someday, you will be the first to know.



I hope your holes hold up. But if the holes already suffice, then why did SkyRC go to the extra effort of using the posts?


----------



## olemil

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Been following this thread since I "was" interested in buying this charger. I wonder what would happen if you put a rubber grommet in the hole on the board, then put the spring through that?. Thought maybe it would insulate the spring from the trace and also maybe strengthen the board/hole slightly where the spring goes through, just a thought. Guess I'm holding off buying this until more bugs are de-bugged.


----------



## fnsooner

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



olemil said:


> Been following this thread since I "was" interested in buying this charger. I wonder what would happen if you put a rubber grommet in the hole on the board, then put the spring through that?. Thought maybe it would insulate the spring from the trace and also maybe strengthen the board/hole slightly where the spring goes through, just a thought.



I was thinking something similar if I were to have any problems with any of the pins. I was thinking of making a hard bushing that would fit in the pcb hole and with a hole in the middle of it to attach the spring through. Might even use the broken pin itself, where you drill a small hole in the center of the pin's diameter and then cut off a piece the length of the thickness of the pcb.
.
Maybe even use a little bit of epoxy to hold the bushing in place and to give a little support to the board itself. 

I use mine almost every day and no problems so far.


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> How about replacing the post with a nylon nut and bolt, then attach the spring to that, what is the diameter of the posts?



Great minds, or something. This is what I think I'm going to try.

Oddly enough, this won't be the first time this week that I repair a defect with a nylon bolt. I'm building a new computer, and the attachment point for the M.2 SSD on the motherboard (Asus X99 E-WS) uses what appears to be a proprietary standoff/bolt combination[1] that came fused together. I shaved down a nylon bolt and carved some "threads" into it - really, in-artful slashes; I'm not used to handwork at sub-millimeter scale. But it worked well enough.

[1] I contacted a specialty bolt shop who said they had enough interest in this that they bought a motherboard and were working on duplicating the standoff, which makes me think (a) that it is proprietary for some reason, and (b) that it is a manufacturing defect, and not just me being unlucky.


----------



## Huntakillaz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So is there a version 2 of this coming, or just a hardware revision?

If just a revision when's the next one meant to drop?


----------



## Dutchman01

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Huntakillaz said:


> So is there a version 2 of this coming, or just a hardware revision?
> 
> If just a revision when's the next one meant to drop?



If I can believe Arjan from nkon.nl store with a few weeks on stock.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Huntakillaz said:


> So is there a version 2 of this coming, or just a hardware revision?
> 
> If just a revision when's the next one meant to drop?



there is no version 2.
nor coming out in future.
and i wouldn't call it hardware revision either.
every production batch has slight changes, as detailed earlier.

Every.


----------



## Beckler

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Pretty ridiculous. This thing might have the unique features but it's still a junk-type item like you'd buy on bangood...oh wait, it IS on bangood.  Too bad nobody is making a high quality charger like this - something actually well-designed and thought out.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

yes unfortunately a few units of a specific batch must have slipped material quality QA, but those are covered by warranty np

and as mentioned, concerned prospective buyers could contact the dealer or the sky to inquire about state of affairs (which i know but don't tell as of yet)

just as a hint, the sky listens carefully to constructive criticism re firmware, software, apps, and hardware, and i can feel the progressive improvements at every corner cant you

if the sky didn't get not few complaints and warranty claims re broken pins, don't you not doubt they wouldn't unchange the origin of the pin breaking problem?



thanks for your nice comments anyway looks like it's time to edit my ignore list again bye bye


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Beckler said:


> Pretty ridiculous. This thing might have the unique features but it's still a junk-type item like you'd buy on bangood...oh wait, it IS on bangood.  Too bad nobody is making a high quality charger like this - something actually well-designed and thought out.


Come on! MC3000 is far from "junk"! It does have minor issues which don't affect its usability. Really, you can even temporarily work around broken spring pins using rubber bands. This charger remains the most advanced one for the price.
One may design and produce a mechanically top-quality device, but it will cost $500... Most people from this thread will never buy one. I believe the MC3000 design and manufacturing quality are very good compromises making it a great tool for flashlight enthusiasts. And, last but not least, it remains affordable for majority of people.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> Come on! MC3000 is far from "junk"! It does have minor issues which don't affect its usability. Really, you can even temporarily work around broken spring pins using rubber bands. This charger remains the most advanced one for the price.
> One may design and produce a mechanically top-quality device, but it will cost $500... Most people from this thread will never buy one. I believe the MC3000 design and manufacturing quality are very good compromises making it a great tool for flashlight enthusiasts. And, last but not least, it remains affordable for majority of people.



I agree. It is quite complete device that has everything up to almost professional device. If sky would work better with software or give out its USB protocol - it would have wonderfull software as well. Sky's software for almost every charer is, actually, crap from ten years old programmer, written in just couple of days with no testing or idea on what it should like. (sorry, but this is true). Nice software would add whole lot of value to this device.


----------



## Beckler

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sns said:


> Sky's software for almost every charer is, actually, crap from ten years old programmer, written in just couple of days with no testing or idea on what it should like. (sorry, but this is true). Nice software would add whole lot of value to this device.



^ Well the software is at least 50% of the device!  So if you're correct you already admit it's trash. Without even owning one I could tell this was the case, because it's that type of product - I can tell just by looking/reading. But everyone has different standards. Just like some of the reviews on sites like banggood for some product which is obviously complete junk, might have a lot of ppl saying "great quality" or something. (Those could be fake reviews I suppose). Anyway, actually well-designed, high-quality products are an extreme rarity these days. I dispute that a quality product here would be $500. Good design isn't necessarily any more expensive than a bad one, it's just that most product designers are clueless - you only have to look at the plethora of horrible junk available today in all consumer products...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sns said:


> wonderfull software as well. Sky's software


i don't use the sky software anymore. the pcls is usable, functional, pretty basic, but also serves as demo and reference for interested coders who want to make something nicer than pcls. those coders can contact the sky and ask for the usb protocol. since the protocol changes with every beta firmware revision and the description may even be lacking or faulty or outdated, its not posted just like that on the www no way.

so far dex does only logging but it does it better than pcls.

@sns what dont you like about dex? its free, open source, and has replaced _my _needs for pcls.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i don't use the sky software anymore. the pcls is usable, functional, pretty basic, but also serves as demo and reference for interested coders who want to make something nicer than pcls. those coders can contact the sky and ask for the usb protocol. since the protocol changes with every beta firmware revision and the description may even be lacking or faulty or outdated, its not posted just like that on the www no way.
> 
> so far dex does only logging but it does it better than pcls.
> 
> @sns what dont you like about dex? its free, open source, and has replaced _my _needs for pcls.



After first installation dex worked. For some 10 minutes. And then it froze. Tried changing skyrc module to the one you've put on dropbox - says some error on logging start (missing or extra parameter or something like that). Now either module does not work properly, one of them (the older one) gets usb driver fail. So neither software for MC3000 does work on my system (win10 surface pro 2). Older skyrc Charger Master does work ok overnight (ver 1 and ver 2). With another charger of course.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sns said:


> .. If sky would work better with software or give out its USB protocol - it would have wonderfull software as well. Sky's software for almost every charer is, actually, crap from ten years old programmer, written in just couple of days with no testing or idea on what it should like. (sorry, but this is true). Nice software would add whole lot of value to this device.



You can't expect more from these Chinese RC hobby charger cloners. They are _hardware _companies. They probably don't have a single _software_ engineer in the entire company. For a couple decades the software on these hobby chargers has essentially been stagnant - cloned from the original higher-quality Korean chargers. So, they've had little need to hire competent software engineers. It's unlikely that a niche product like the MC3000 will change that.

Instead, we should aim to convince these manufacturers to make the software open source (or at least the communication protocols) so that we can write our own software. This has been partly achieved with the MC3000 but, alas, not completely, since the Bluetooth (phone) protocol appears to still be proprietary. But it shouldn't be too difficult to reverse engineer if need be.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Beckler said:


> I dispute that a quality product here would be $500. Good design isn't necessarily any more expensive than a bad one



Totally agree on the cost of design point. It doesn't take much more time of the same engineers to put better materials and components into design and require certain standards of manufacturing and assembly. It does cost, however, to acquire these parts for every unit, enforce standards and quality control throughout the entire manufacturing process. Compare the price of iPhone to the one of cheap devices: six times more expensive! Those devices, however, have pretty much the same functionality. It is the build quality that makes all the difference.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> Compare the price of iPhone to the one of cheap devices: six times more expensive! Those devices, however, have pretty much the same functionality. It is the build quality that makes all the difference.



That Apple has a high selling price do not imply that iPhones are expensive to make.
We can also discuss the quality of iPhones, one one model you could basically kill the communication by placing the fingers a specific way. That is very bad quality.


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Budda said:


> SKYRC Mc3000 owner here. FW version 1.03, HW 1.4.
> I can't get in any way a firmware update: unable to get firmware from the internet.
> I use the MC3000 monitor software that I got from the SKYRC MC3000 webpage.
> Any help ? Thanks.



Hello,
same here, tried two versions of winblows
and disabled virus-checking.

I imagine it is an issue on the server side
Plus incoming newer versions of FW (hence disabled, awaiting upgrade)

Regards


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I've been posting my experience with the one MC3000 I own, but haven't really shared my thoughts on the problem, other than a little grumbling. Here's my take. 

The TLDR: My annoyance at the breakage should not be construed as a negative review of the MC3000. For me, it is the best charger on the market. If you're unwilling to engage in the occasional junkyard engineering, it may not be the best charger for you.

It is a hobby charger. These are comparatively very low-volume sellers, and making them at this price point entails a ton of tradeoffs. I would, in fact, pay more for something like it that chose the more expensive, better quality paths through the design space, but suspect there are too few other people who feel the same to earn back the cost of the first unit. So expecting extremely high quality, perfectly even manufacturing/QC, etc., it seems to me, is a category error[1]. 

I'm generally quite happy with it, but my expectations are, I think, set accordingly. I'm used to making/buying/playing with custom electronics, where the manual is a schematic if you're lucky and the safety instructions are "turn it off if you smell burning." The MC3000 is a couple steps up from that, and that's fine with me. I went the warranty route, and it turns out that it doesn't make sense to keep doing so, and that's OK, I'm perfectly comfortable voiding warranties. I am actually considering buying a second one; due to my occasionally poor planning skills, the capability to charge a bunch of cells at once would be nice.

[1] Regarding the Apple comparison, I think it simply doesn't make sense to even compare. This article is going around around Bay Area startup circles explaining part of the reason why. It doesn't make sense for a number of other reasons, but that article should be sufficient argument on the topic.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It's a great charger. More options than any other. HKJ approved.

Mine is sturdy and robust, even after I've opened it up.

Trying to suggest the firmware is badly written or a copy/clone obviously haven't used it. Just read the manual to see how different and customisable it is.

Sure, focus on the few negatives. That says a lot more about you as a person than it does the charger.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Sure, focus on the few negatives. That says a lot more about you as a person than it does the charger.



Nonsense. Someone who bought the charger expecting the Bluetooth software to be functional has a right to be quite perturbed. The software is crap. That says a lot about the_ manufacturer, _not about the_ buyer_.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Beckler said:


> Pretty ridiculous. This thing might have the unique features but it's still a junk-type item like you'd buy on bangood...oh wait, it IS on bangood.  Too bad nobody is making a high quality charger like this - something actually well-designed and thought out.



This is way wide of the mark - as judged by most of us here. The MC3000 is far and away the best and most versatile charger out there. Some of them seem to have a few problems - mine which is a first-production run without FCC sticker - so far not.

Like others here, I have used it to replace ALL my other other chargers (except for travel chargers of course) which have now been sold. Also like others here, I plan to get another one since occasionally I want to charge more than 4 cells at a time (or more likely more than 2 D cells at a time). That some bugs need to be - and apparently are being - removed does not change my mind.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I thought the other day - why did they not include just one banana port for charging non-format accumulators? Might be a good idea to make one myself... Another one is missing - 9v batteries are missing here. It's a hobby batteries as well - used all over multimeters. So you will not end up with a single charger anyway, even though it was so close.


----------



## TeMpL

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Nonsense. Someone who bought the charger expecting the Bluetooth software to be functional has a right to be quite perturbed. The software is crap. That says a lot about the_ manufacturer, _not about the_ buyer_.


I strongly agree


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TeMpL said:


> I strongly agree



I am too agree that it should work, but personally don't see any reason to put bluetooth in there in the first place. It is as handy as manual control, with a range of 10 meters - useless for any other operation... Would appretiate much more additional 1-6 cells port for other types of batteries as in imax b6.

..Well, except for the nice icon on a package and a marketing "wow! bluetooth!". Interesting - did it work out as a selling point?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

How does the Bluetooth function not work?

Everyone jumping on the "me too" bandwagon doesn't own one and their jealousy is showing.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



> Everyone jumping on the "me too" bandwagon doesn't own one.........



Well, it would be good if members owning the charger were more considered in their opinions, than those who do not own one. Let's see how that works.

Bill


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> How does the Bluetooth function not work?
> 
> Everyone jumping on the "me too" bandwagon doesn't own one and their jealousy is showing.



I do own a charger. Not tried bluetooth though. Don't see any reason to.
Can try to figure out how it works.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sns said:


> I do own a charger. Not tried bluetooth though. Don't see any reason to.
> Can try to figure out how it works.



That was my point - the Bluetooth function works fine. I agree the app is rather clunky, but it does work and once you've got the setting programmed in, it's very easy to use.

Anyway, I've "been told" so I shall pull my head in and say no more.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> That was my point - the Bluetooth function works fine. I agree the app is rather clunky, but it does work and once you've got the setting programmed in, it's very easy to use.
> 
> Anyway, I've "been told" so I shall pull my head in and say no more.



I've never implied that bluetooth does not work, only said it should and explained my vision behind its need overall. That's it.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sns said:


> I've never implied that bluetooth does not work, only said it should and explained my vision behind its need overall. That's it.


I was referring to this.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is this broken plastic spring post being blown out of proportion, how many chargers have we had with broken posts.

If owners with broken posts would give there serial number maybe we can identify a bad batch, the problem is they get lost in this huge thread.

I don't use my MC3000 a lot and when i do it`s mostly for nimh cells which are shorter than 18650 which will put more pressure on the posts, I have not had a problem myself.

Thanks

John.


----------



## ShopGL

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I bought the MC3000 a while ago but am just starting to use it now. My main use is to cycle new batteries to achieve optimum performance.... and then compare performance between brands... beginning with the FDK manufactured Top Tier batteries: Fujitsu Premium HR-3UTHC / and the two current models of eneloop pro BK-3HCCE and the eu/japan BK-3HCD ... It would be nice if the Bluetooth phone software was more useful and shared programs with the charger but I am more interested in the computer software and was hoping to graph my results. I have not downloaded it or used the PC-Link yet..but am planning to get to it next week  So far so good in using the units interface...the programming flexibility of this charger what I was looking for.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just tried bluetooth yesterday, charged couple of 18650. Everything went smoothly with no issues whatsoever. Did not try saving profiles. Connected right away and satyed connected for couple of hours. I was using Samsung Note 4.
From my experience, bluetooth is one of the most bugged wireless communication protocols. So, if it does not work - 95% chance is that devices are not compatible or using different handshakes (there are some 5+ types of connection handshakes).


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sns said:


> From my experience, bluetooth is one of the most bugged wireless communication protocols. So, if it does not work - 95% chance is that devices are not compatible or using different handshakes (there are some 5+ types of connection handshakes).




For the record, I've had zero problems with Bluetooth using an iPhone 6. I really only use it at the end of cycles to make it shut up.

And (donning my geek-hat) Bluetooth is a troublesome protocol, not so much because of the protocol itself, but because it has two competing constraints: work in any and all conditions and use as little power as possible. Additionally, a detail that is more psychological than technical is that today most people use Bluetooth from phones, which creates a an expectation, even in people know better, that "signal is signal". It has wifi and I can call, why can't it talk to that stupid box across the room?

In fact, interference is a massive problem for BT. For instance, I have a very cheap keyboard on one of my machines. I found that if the cord for it is between my phone and another device, the phone gets insufficient signal. A friend is a failure analyst for a well-known gadget maker, and he hates Bluetooth with a fiery passion, because it provides an endless stream of "this didn't work in that way, find out what's wrong", and nearly always the problem cannot be reproduced, because it was almost certainly environmental happenstance.

And then add in cheap manufacturers saving a penny, and you get a real mess.

Technical sidetrack over.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Well, just add it on top of it. Multiplied by microsoft implementations of pairing and apple's plus android implementations of its own, salted by broadcom bt stack... On small os-less devices it works a bit better though, but pairing some weird barcode reader with windows 8, for example, is somewhat extraordinary dance with slight chance or real luck... So, just remember, if it is paired and work just like that out of the box - it's a luck =)


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



jal said:


> For the record, I've had zero problems with Bluetooth using an iPhone 6. I really only use it at the end of cycles to make it shut up.



You know you can turn the beeping off in the settings, yeah?


----------



## c-fut

Hello all. I'm a new owner of the mc3000. I have been using it to check capacity in my 18650 cells in advanced mode. I will be getting some AA and AAA eneloop cells this Friday and wanted to see what settings to use on this charger. I did some reading and found the recommended charging rate of .5C and discharge rate of .2C. I cannot find the termination voltage for the Eneloops though. Anybody know? Or am I going at this all wrong? Thanks in advance


----------



## SilverFox

Hello C-fut,

Welcome to CPF.

With Eneloops at a 0.2C discharge rate a good termination voltage is 0.9 volts.

Tom


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> You know you can turn the beeping off in the settings, yeah?



I do, but thank you. I did have them off for a while - I really hate beepy noises. The reason I don't turn it off is because I have three unbroken pins left, and I may not hear the snap noise if I'm puttering around the house when the next one goes. The circuit-break alarm is harder to miss. I fully intend to turn the bleeping bleeps back off once I get around to doing something about the pins.


----------



## kreisl

Swede74 said:


> Exactly. Four buttons = shortcuts to four different programs. Makes sense, doesn't it?


< *UP *+ SNB > is used as short cut. 4 SNB's, so we get *4* short cuts to program memories.

we _could _also implement < *DOWN* + SNB > as short cut. This would give us 4 extra short cuts to program memories, for a total of *8* short cuts. please lemme know if you prefer four or eight in the 1.10 firmware.

personally i dont mind much, eight might be overdoing dee idea tho. my cell phone number has 7 digits and my squirrel nut sized brains cannot even memorize that number!
i had to alphabetize it as in 1 800 SAFEWAY 1 800 LIPO SUCTION etc lol
of course, having eight rather than four does not harm, technically. but then comes smart aleck G and wants twelve without being an owner herself. Etc etc etc.

it was your good idea and it got accepted and implemented and celebrated. so i let you draw the line. 
anyway, we could use < *DOWN* + SNB > in future for something else. maybe four ice creams. so, if you dont really need eight, we should not use up these 4 potential short cuts, huh?


----------



## Swede74

kreisl said:


> < *UP *+ SNB > is used as short cut. 4 SNB's, so we get *4* short cuts to program memories.
> 
> we _could _also implement < *DOWN* + SNB > as short cut. This would give us 4 extra short cuts to program memories, for a total of *8* short cuts. please lemme know if you prefer four or eight in the 1.10 firmware.



I prefer four (4) shortcuts. 



kreisl said:


> it was your good idea and it got accepted and implemented and celebrated. so i let you draw the line.
> anyway, we could use < *DOWN* + SNB > in future for something else. maybe four ice creams. so, if you dont really need eight, we should not use up these 4 potential short cuts, huh?



What an honour, and how fortunate that I will not have to travel far to accept my Noble Prize. I agree, it is a good idea to leave the remaining four potential shortcuts unused. It may be a bit of a disappointment for those who would prefer eight, but it would be even worse if they got used to having eight shortcuts now, only to have the rug pulled from under them if < *DOWN* + SNB > has to be used for something else in future versions of the firmware.


----------



## kreisl

Swede74 said:


> I prefer four (4) shortcuts.



very well

thanks man, cheers!


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

How much energy are we wasting discharging battery`s to test their capacity, I would be nice if we could connect an power bank to the usb port and use that as the load thus charging it in the process.

John.


----------



## write2dgray

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The iCharger line of chargers support regenerative discharging, pretty handy for cycling without converting all the energy into heat.


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



> I was trying to install DataExplorer in my Raspberry Pi, but without any luck. The reason is the same, to not have a hungry pc ON all the time, besides RPI can be powered by MC3000 Usb, and with tightvncserver it's a great headless. The problem it's to compile from source to ARM6, what I don't know how to do it. :/





Mr Floppy said:


> That's openjdk. Doesn't work then?
> 
> Try oracle Java. I'm not a Java fan but you should be able to get the package name with
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> apt-cache search java | grep -i oracle



Hello, 

I run a MC3000,
I could not make DEX run under raspberry pi model 1 B (although I went quite far in compiling it)
So I opened a thread with DEX :
*sr #109066: cannot run under raspberry pi model 1 B. No java/ext directory ?*

here http://savannah.nongnu.org/support/index.php?109066

If somebody is interested...

Regards


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

okay looks like (k#60) and (k#61) have been implemented successfully.
from my part, there are no further fw wishes and i asked them to let the 1.10 fly, as soon as they're done with the tests cheers!


----------



## Ammitz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My 4 month old MC3000 just cracked 3 black spring holders.. looks like there where sliced over because off heat..


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sorry for your loss, Do you mind if we see your serial number so we can see if we have a bad batch.

John.



Ammitz said:


> My 4 month old MC3000 just cracked 3 black spring holders.. looks like there where sliced over because off heat..


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

If plastic is that brittle that it can't handle daily use. That is unheard of. With that said. I notice on slot 3, the rail feels loose when i pull back on the slider. I can see the metal plate move. No issues so far though. Should i be concern about the rail feeling loose?


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Sorry for your loss, Do you mind if we see your serial number so we can see if we have a bad batch.
> 
> John.



Good idea. Here is mine. SN:000908510


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks Swede74 , anybody else with broken posts, drop your serial maybe we can see a pattern, bad batch ect.

John.



Swede74 said:


> Good idea. Here is mine. SN:000908510


----------



## Ammitz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

SN:000908347

contacted Gearbest, they offered me $20 partial refund.



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Sorry for your loss, Do you mind if we see your serial number so we can see if we have a bad batch.
> 
> John.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

MC3000 with broken posts.

SN:000908510
SN:000908347
SN:000863552
SN:000908895

Anybody Else?

My MC3000 is OK, But i don't use it much, But it`s serial falls in-between the ones that have been given above, so i suspect it will be affected at some point.

John.


----------



## gyzmo2002

SN: 000863552. Bought at the end of december.


----------



## ilgrank

About fw 1.10..
I have seen no one complain about NIMH termination voltage.. isn't the default 1.65v a bit on the high side? 1.55 wouldn't be a safer bet? What do you think about it?
Also.. my PCLS still reports no new firmware found (im @1.02).. is it normal?
Is there any work done on PCLS as far as you know kreisl? We will see some of the proposed enhancements implemented? 
Many thanks!!


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can anyone tell me what the rail is attached to? Feels like it can come off. Can't really tell from the pics.


----------



## kappa7

ilgrank said:


> About fw 1.10..
> I have seen no one complain about NIMH termination voltage.. isn't the default 1.65v a bit on the high side? 1.55 wouldn't be a safer bet? What do you think about it?
> Also.. my PCLS still reports no new firmware found (im @1.02).. is it normal?
> Is there any work done on PCLS as far as you know kreisl? We will see some of the proposed enhancements implemented?
> Many thanks!!



The termination voltage for NIMH and NICD battery is only a safety feature so it has to be higher than the maximum voltage reached during a standard charge. The normal termination used is the -dV/dt.


----------



## jal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Mine (two pins down so far) is 000908895.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Mine (no issues so far) is SN: 000888547


----------



## kreisl

ilgrank said:


> Also.. my PCLS still reports no new firmware found (im @1.02).. is it normal?
> Is there any work done on PCLS as far as you know kreisl? We will see some of the proposed enhancements implemented?



yes it is normal. no further changes will be done in 1.10 and probably the firmware will be posted as separate download EXE on the website. no more updating through pcls.

afaik 1.10 has passed testing and afaik they are sending it to production these days. but i really cant know when the 1.10 will be posted on the website.

afaik pcls has been changed only to get more logging like 1 decimal for capacity and maybe energy. havent tested it. imho its been superseded by the availability of dex. dex is being updated regularly and has reached high maturity status for mc3k logging. a reliable tool. 

and no, we will not see some of the proposed pcls enhancements implemented anytime soon. both dex and pcls listen to suggestions and bug reports, but i only see dex moving.

pcls is left behind. sokay.


----------



## Rapster

My serial number from an MC3000 without issue thus far: 000888549.

Looks like you were in the queue *just* ahead of me, tjh.

Were you the one wearing the funny hat?


----------



## sns

Interesting question - what kind of internal resistance test MC3000 is using? Just got hands on ALL-SUN battery internal tester and it shows approx. 0.10 Om less resistance over MC3000 and that device is known to use 1kHz method. Is MC3000 using usual simple load test? I don't think it has AC method or multifrequency method for sure as it is most expensive one.


----------



## hoanle

My MC3000 is SN: 000863427 (bought 12/2015 and no issues so far).


----------



## ilgrank

kreisl said:


> yes it is normal. no further changes will be done in 1.10 and probably the firmware will be posted as separate download EXE on the website. no more updating through pcls.
> [pcls] imho its been superseded by the availability of dex. dex is being updated regularly and has reached high maturity status for mc3k logging. a reliable tool.


while DEX is very useful to graph data, (and correct me if I'm wrong) it is of no help for quickly setting parameters to the MC3000.
I do often switch programs, and entering them by hand (once for each channel) is a real PITA..
I'd just love to have a quick way to store/send recipes to the MC3000 
Wouldn't you think this would be useful?
Thanks


----------



## kreisl

ilgrank said:


> while DEX is very useful to graph data, (and correct me if I'm wrong) it is of no help for quickly setting parameters to the MC3000.
> I do often switch programs, and entering them by hand (once for each channel) is a real PITA..
> I'd just love to have a quick way to store/send recipes to the MC3000
> Wouldn't you think this would be useful?
> Thanks


@sns 
mc3000 uses simple test, see HKJ review. if your measurements are 100mO too high, then your rails may be dirty with grease. i cleaned my rails.

@ilgrank
the current dex version does logging only, thats true. there has been plans for some control or programming in future versions.
how many different programs do you normally use? you can save up to 30 different programs. and you have quick access to the 4 favorite programs.
you can send recipes thru pcls and app. also store in the app under a name. the android app works just fine, as long as the android language setting is english.
pcls will get more functionality like the saving or storing of recipes but for this some structure of the firmware needs to be changed and dis aint gonna happen anytime soon. the new 1.10 is just coming out after 5 months of wait. was supposed to be released after CNY holidays but the list got longer and longer, and etc. yes it will be possible with pcls and dex to store all 30 programs to hdd later this year, i am foncident. but restoring from hdd to mc3k is yet another story and actually may not be supported for various reasons even though the coding is possible. only because something would make sense and could be coded and done, doesnt mean that it will be coded and get done. company priorities rule. squirrel eats nutz. whatever that means. hh

i heard that they are planning to post the updated user manual by dee end of this week. total number of pages hasnt changed.


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

[QUOTE*]*_My laptop and the two USB hubs I have connected to it are all USB3 capable.
I specifically bought USB3 hubs for my new laptop.

I have no problem running the PCLS and talking to my MC3000 via it.

So I suspect the USB3 thing is a bit of a red herring.[/QUOTE]_


DeJaVu said:


> Re-read the original post.
> Disabling usb 3.0 helped with dex(not pcls) detecting the charger. It is still not narowed down, but my giess is that problems arise only with Intel USB 3.0 Chip.
> 
> Pcls works ok either way, except that it stops logging upon inserting another usb device, a behavior which dex doesnt exibit.



>>_I suspect the USB3 thing is a bit of a red herring
_I came to the same conclusion at least for my chromebook laptop i5 and intel USB2 and 3 ports.
As described here : https://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?48121

DEX recorded random noise (spikes in values and zeroes) in the signal
and random data freeze (a bit more on the USB2 than USB3, a feeling more than hard data
since I stopped looking into the difference between 2 and 3).

*I have no longer those problems since I installed a powered D-link USB2 hub in-between the MC3000 and and the USB2 port of the laptop.*

Anybody with the same observations ?


----------



## Gauss163

sns said:


> Interesting question - what kind of internal resistance test MC3000 is using? Just got hands on ALL-SUN battery internal tester and it shows approx. 0.10 Om less resistance over MC3000 and that device is known to use 1kHz method. Is MC3000 using usual simple load test? I don't think it has AC method or multifrequency method for sure as it is most expensive one.



There was much prior discussion (see around here), where no specific implementation details were revealed, but an intelligent guess is that it is using one of the standard DC IR tests (current injection/interruption) described in the article that I linked there. It should be very easy to reverse engineer the specifics of the actual test if one has the charger and some basic electronics tools.

Generally it does not make sense to compare high-frequency AC impedance tests to DC IR tests (they can differ by a factor of 2-3). See here for further discussion.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Meyer said:


> The App V2.5 is operating here, with bugs.
> 
> *Bug #1:*
> App will crash with Android language settings where decimal mark is decimal comma (","), as in Germany.
> 
> Preconditions:
> 
> MC3000 Hardware Version 1.4, Firmware Version 1.02
> Samsung Galaxy S5, Android 5.0 with german language setting
> MC3000 App V2.5
> 
> Example: Editing a setup voltages will first be displayed with decimal dot, e.g. 4.20 V. After modifying or reentring the voltage will be displayed with decimal comma, e.g. 4,20V or 4,10V. On saving such a setting the app crashes immediately. Maybe during a text-to-number-conversion-routine.
> 
> Temporary workaround: Choose language setting with decimal dot ("."), e.g. English (United Kingdom) or English (United States). This is annoying in other apps (Mail, spreadsheet, ...).


Yeah the bug was very easy to reproduce by everyone, thanks for showing the shortest way.
The bug has been fixed, i am running the android app *V3.0*. Saving a 1.01A LiIon charge program on a geman andloid doesnt crash the app anymore, good good.
I dont know what else has been done since V2.8, maybe nothing else hh.

prospective firmware version to be posted online (server or webpage) will be 1.11. coming very soon. no more reasons to hold it back afaik.
am not sure when android app V3.0 will be posted on Google Play Store.


----------



## fraktl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> MC3000 with broken posts.
> 
> SN:000908510
> SN:000908347
> SN:000863552
> SN:000908895
> 
> Anybody Else?



SN:000908922

Broken post on Slots 2, 3, &, 4. Slot 1 gives false-positive "Check Voltage" reading and never worked.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks fraktl for SN:000908922 added to the list.

MC3000 with broken posts.

SN:000908510
SN:000908347
SN:000863552
SN:000908895
SN:000908922

Anybody Else?

*EDIT: how come the serial number is so high, they only make the MC3000 in batches of 200, are other models of SkyRC charger`s included in this serial number?
*


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Yeah the bug was very easy to reproduce by everyone, thanks for showing the shortest way.
> The bug has been fixed, i am running the android app *V3.0*. Saving a 1.01A LiIon charge program on a geman andloid doesnt crash the app anymore, good good.
> I dont know what else has been done since V2.8, maybe nothing else hh.
> 
> prospective firmware version to be posted online (server or webpage) will be 1.11. coming very soon. no more reasons to hold it back afaik.
> am not sure when android app V3.0 will be posted on Google Play Store.


I have found a bug in the android app. Should be tested if this happens on all phones. Mine is nexus 4 on android 6.
When i have a bluetooth headset paired to the phone(in this case headset is powered off, not sure if it happens when its on), the app cant find the charger.
By looking at the bluetooth menu its clear that the phone gives priority to the headset and tries to connect to it first. While this is going on, the app times out and displays message that charger cannot be found.
Easily solvable by increasing the time app searches for charger.

Edit:
Just to describe the exact situation.
1.Headset paired
2. turn bluetooth off
3. Turn headset off
4. Start MC3000 app which automaticaly turns bluetooth on , and the bug happens.


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

MC3000_Firmware_Update.rar

*Revised* 2016-06-23 

Now available on SkyRC's website.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Swede74 said:


> MC3000_Firmware_Update.rar
> 
> *Revised* 2016-06-23
> 
> Now available on SkyRC's website.


Awwwwwww yis!


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Some excellent clear instructions (and a bit scary) that Sky*cough*krisel*cough*RC have written in the Firmware upgrade. Very scary though, still Windows XP3 only. I dare not upgrade my unit yet, having only Windows 10. I'll wait for someone else to try.

There is also an updated manual (haven't read it yet) and a new v1.02 of MC3000 monitor, which on a quick examination has the same bugs (can't be resized) etc as the older version.

Still, great to see v1.11 of the firmware out.

Big round of applause krisel for being the go-between us and SkyRC.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You can get the new manual from the link below.
Wating for braver owners than me to flash the new firmware on Win10 , Who has XP3?

http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=219

John.


----------



## Dutchman01

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Flashed my new unit (serial 000908576) what arrived today from firmware 1.3 to 1.11 on Windows 10 X64 without any problem!
Display shows Hardware version 1.4+ and Firmware version 1.11.

New MC3000_Monitor_V102 app is out too: http://www.skyrc.com/download/MC3000_Monitor_V102.rar


http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product/download&download_id=149">MC3000 Charger Manual (English V1.2).pdf

_MC3000 Firmware_Update_V1.11_
http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?rout...load_id=156">MC3000 Firmware_Update_V1.11.rar


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Upgraded on win10 x64 with no issues.

Edit:
The updated PCLS no longer stops logging when USB device is plugged in the pc


----------



## Zanders

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Updated without problems. Windows 10 x64.

"Batt IR: N/A" In meny when charging a 18650. Why is that?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Same here, update without problems. Windows 10 x64 using USB 3.0 PORT

EDIT: Can we have a list of changes, I cannot see anything new (found hot buttons top page 16) with a quick look.

John


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My update was successful. 

I'm running Windows Vista 64 Bit with all the latested updates and service packs. Standard USB 2.0 and 1.1 Ports.

Note: If your PC has a USB 3.0 HUB. USB 3.x HUBs I have reviewed are basically a USB 3.x HUB integrated with a USB 2.0 HUB for backwards compatibility. Different OS drivers are used for USB 3.x and USB 2.0 On some PC's conflicts may occur. I would first make certain your PC and OS has no USB conflicts between USB devices and drivers. Often a PC with a USB 3.x hub will have bios settings for USB 3.x and USB 2.0 that will effect how the USB HUBs are initialized and how their OS drivers are loaded.

On my Vista 64-Bit PC, USBview is reporting:

bcdUSB : 0x200 (USB Version 2.00)
Device Bus Speed : 0x01 (Full-Speed)

USB 2.0 Full Speed = 12 Mbit/s
USB 1.0/1.1 Full Speed =12 Mbit/s
USB 2.0 Hi-speed = 480 Mbit/s 

Manufacturer Info : (Standard system devices)
Capabilities : 0x84 (Removable, SurpriseRemovalOK)


------------------- HID Descriptor --------------------
bLength : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x21 (HID Descriptor)
bcdHID : 0x0101 (HID Version 1.01)

------------------ String Descriptors -----------------
------ String Descriptor 0 ------
bLength : 0x04 (4 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language ID[0] : 0x0409 (English - United States)
------ String Descriptor 1 ------
bLength : 0x26 (38 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "STMicroelectronics"
------ String Descriptor 2 ------
bLength : 0x20 (32 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "STM32 Custm HID"
------ String Descriptor 3 ------
bLength : 0x1A (26 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "Iÿpq?QRGAg" *!*CAUTION contains character below 0x20


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So updating the firmware on win 10 64-bit is not a problem??


----------



## Dutchman01

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> So updating the firmware on win 10 64-bit is not a problem??



Indeed no problem!


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sweet! Going to update later today.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I updated on Windows 8 x64 with a premium cable and no problems also.
Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> "Batt IR: N/A" In meny when charging a 18650. Why is that?


battery needs to have a minimum voltage. your battery is below it i think. then charger will skip taking the Batt IR measurement.

@John
has anyone seen the list?


----------



## hoanle

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My update was successful on Windows 10 X64 without any problem.
Now display shows Hardware v1.4+ and Firmware v1.11.
Thank you.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> battery needs to have a minimum voltage. your battery is below it i think. then charger will skip taking the Batt IR measurement.
> 
> @John
> has anyone seen the list?



Did they make the minimum voltage to check for IR 3.3V? 
If that is the case than its actually a step backwards for people like me, as i know it worked ok before. SkyRC should have in mind that people arent charging only protected cells with 3.2v or similar electronic cutout.
As im into Vaping, all my cells are IMR which are mostly discharged to about 3V(by spec sheets maximum discharge is 2.5v for most popular IMR) by the mods most vapers use, which comes out to no IR checking when putting battery on charger every time battery is discharged fully on the mod.
And given that many of the modern flashlights have built in overdischarge protection i would figure that even flashlight people use IMR. 
Understandable that it might trip the protection in the protected batteries, but this way its cutting functionality when charging IMR batteries.
So tell your palls to make it factory default at 3.3v, but put an voltage range option for the user to change to preffered voltage.
Dont be IMR Phobic .
And while were at it , same thing goes for the reduced current if battery is below 3.2v as far as i recall, thats also a bad limitation for vapers as some mods discharge 2.5-2.8V(under load), so unnneceserily it takes a long time to get things going to full speed.
I know that this was mentioned, so make it an user option also.
It would make the charger even more versatile.


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I updated using a HP Pavilion G6 running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 SP1. The update was successful, but where is the game? 



> (k#38) add in GSV some hidden generic LCD games for 1 player (CONFIRMED, DONE)



Let us be completely honest for a minute; the game is what we all _really_ have been waiting for, isn't it?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ok, here it goes. Going to update.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Did they make the minimum voltage to check for IR 3.3V?
> If that is the case than its actually a step backwards for people like me, as i know it worked ok before....



Be aware that IR can increase much at low SOC, e.g. see the graph below. So it is better to calculate it at higher SOC if you want a result that reflects the IR in normal SOC ranges.







Graph excerpted from p. 1-4 of Challenges and Solutions in Battery Fuel Gauging, by Yevgen Barsukov.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Be aware that IR can increase much at low SOC, e.g. see the graph below. So it is better to calculate it at higher SOC if you want a result that reflects the IR in normal SOC ranges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graph excerpted from p. 1-4 of Challenges and Solutions in Battery Fuel Gauging, by Yevgen Barsukov.




We are talking about different things. 
I didnt have in mind how precise is IR measurement at given SOC, but the fact that with the new firmware you dont get an IR reading when charging a battery that is discharged below 3.3v. 
Not a very big deal tbh, but it still is a step that doesn't consider all users/types of batteries, and its a step backwards for my needs.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi,

Just tried to update the firmware and on count 4 it showed the error. Now the device boots only in blank white screen mode, no usb connection is possible. Is there any way to recover it? It is nearly impossible to send it for repair for me.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sns said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just tried to update the firmware and on count 4 it showed the error. Now the device boots only in blank white screen mode, no usb connection is possible. Is there any way to recover it? It is nearly impossible to send it for repair for me.


What was the error?

I believe if you boot the device with enter pressed down (unplug all power, hold down enter, plug in power) you can reflash it.

What operating system do you use?


----------



## scarnific

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Updating now but process is stuckat 32%. Blank screen for 5 minutes now.
What can I do? I don't want to power off.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



scarnific said:


> Updating now but process is stuckat 32%. Blank screen for 5 minutes now.
> What can I do? I don't want to power off.


Are you by chance using a front usb port?


----------



## scarnific

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Problem solved by himself, stuck for some minutes and than terminated correctly.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> What was the error?
> 
> I believe if you boot the device with enter pressed down (unplug all power, hold down enter, plug in power) you can reflash it.
> 
> What operating system do you use?



Hi,
_error.2 start vector.

_Now if I start it with ENTER pressed down - windows says USB device was unable to start, but when I just start it and plug it in - Device description failed. So it differs...

Windows 10 x64, I have two machines - Surface Pro and stationary PC.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> We are talking about different things...



No, we are talking about the same thing. My point was simply to mention the increase in IR at low SOC, in case readers were not aware of that. If you want to use IR as a health metric then it would be better to measure it at higher SOC - where it better reflects the IR in typical usage conditions.


----------



## sns

Phew! That was scarry!

1. Pressed ENTER and plugged it in to a wall adapter (it will power up on USB connection as well!)
2. Checked if there are any unknown USB devices in Device Manager (on stationary PC this usb connection did not worked - it has Intel USB 3.0 device - must be plugged it in there..., but on Surface Pro - everything seemed to be ok).
3. Started Update Program - it said "Device found" - GOOD!
4. Started update - it went OK and device is now working and upgraded!

Thank You very much for that hint with ENTER!! Thought I've got a bricked 100$ charger at hand for now on (it would not be worth sending it and receiving back - shipping costs would be the same as the device or even more).

Success!


----------



## tjh

sns said:


> Phew! That was scarry!
> 
> 1. Pressed ENTER and plugged it in to a wall adapter (it will power up on USB connection as well!)
> 2. Checked if there are any unknown USB devices in Device Manager (on stationary PC this usb connection did not worked - it has Intel USB 3.0 device - must be plugged it in there..., but on Surface Pro - everything seemed to be ok).
> 3. Started Update Program - it said "Device found" - GOOD!
> 4. Started update - it went OK and device is now working and upgraded!
> 
> Thank You very much for that hint with ENTER!! Thought I've got a bricked 100$ charger at hand for now on (it would not be worth sending it and receiving back - shipping costs would be the same as the device or even more).
> 
> Success!


Yeah, I was just trying to find the post about how to recover it, but I knew holding enter was key (I tested it on my charger and it booted up a blank screen)

Good to know you've recovered and v1.11 updates are still 100% success


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> No, we are talking about the same thing. My point was simply to mention the increase in IR at low SOC, in case readers were not aware of that. If you want to use IR as a health metric then it would be better to measure it at higher SOC - where it better reflects the IR in typical usage conditions.



Sorry, didnt pay much attention and only scratched the surface of what you were trying to say . By rereading, i got ya.
While your statement holds water, i think that it doesnt affect IMR(LiMn2O4) that much as it does standard li-ion . And mind you , im not talking about setting it at ultra low voltages, more like 2.8v-3.0v as minimum for IR measurement.
Just my somewhat educated oppinion . 
Do you by any chance have the same charts with IMR batteries tested?


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> ..While your statement holds water, i think that it doesnt affect IMR(LiMn2O4) that much as it does standard li-ion ...
> Do you by any chance have the same charts with IMR batteries tested?



_Qualitatively _it is the same for all Li-ion chemistries. The rapid increase in IR when the cell is near empty is (partly) what causes the more rapid decrease in voltage after the "knee" of the discharge curve. If this did not occur then the curve would have much less of a knee.

Beware that there is a lot of false and misleading info about Li-ion tech on the net, including about internal resistance. For example, a large part of BatteryBro's Myth #5 on internal resistance is either false or misleading.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> _Qualitatively _it is the same for all Li-ion chemistries. The rapid increase in IR when the cell is near empty is (partly) what causes the more rapid decrease in voltage after the "knee" of the discharge curve. If this did not occur then the curve would have much less of a knee.
> 
> Beware that there is a lot of false and misleading info about Li-ion tech on the net, including about internal resistance. For example, a large part of BatteryBro's Myth #5 on internal resistance is either false or misleading.



I was aware that the higher the IR the more pronounced the V drop under load.
I said it is my oppinion that it doesnt affect IMR as much as standar li-ion , because in tests i made the IMR have lower v drop and knee exibits at a lower voltages compared to standard li-ion.At least with cells i own.
Sanyo UR18500F - knee at 3.3V
Panasonic NCR18500 - knee at around 3V
LG INR18650-HG2 - Knee exibits at around 2.8v.
Samsung INR18659-30Q - max i discharged it is 3v and no pronounced knee up to that voltage, i suppose it would have the same results as the LG as tests on these 2 batteries show they have almost identical performance.

So by this i conclude that measuring IR on the lg at 2.8v would give me results with the same precision as measuring the sanyo at 3.3v or the panasonic at 3v. Correct me if im wrong.
So why shouldnt we have the option of getting the IR without an additional step , right?  . 
I really think it wouldnt bother anyone, but rather make things easier for part of us to have the option to set the min voltage for IR measurement as desired.

And ill mention again that 0.15A charge rate if battery is below 3.2V , thats even more annoying and time consuming.


Edit:
Mixed IMR with INR, but you catch my drift


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> And ill mention again that 0.15A charge rate if battery is below 3.2V , thats even more annoying and time consuming.


Well, I'll take safety over saving a few minutes time every day.


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Swede74 said:


> I updated using a HP Pavilion G6 running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 SP1.


Updated ok with zinblows 7, home, 32 bits, via USB2 + basic anker cable
now
HW 1.4+
FW 1.11

Thanks for the hardwork to skyrc and contributors.

Will check soon that the DEX CVS version is still working


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Well, I'll take safety over saving a few minutes time every day.



Im not saying remove it alltogether... But make the 3.2v as a factory default and give me the option to change that. 
As we dont all charge the same battery chemistries/models, and while it would be good to have it at 3.2 for certain batteries, its plain just a waste of time for others.
I guess thats not to much to ask, we do have the uber charger to rule them all, right, right ?


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Well this is good news about the update! I have checked mine - but it is already running the current version (1.0.2) for my early charger according to the details.

I will try my later charger tomorrow.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Minimoog said:


> Well this is good news about the update! I have checked mine - but it is already running the current version (1.0.2) for my early charger according to the details.
> 
> I will try my later charger tomorrow.


Wot?
1.02 is the old version.
You must manually download v1.11 from Sky's site and apply it.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@DeJaVu
i am not sure if it will work but the manual states that you can hit UP+DOWN key in TOV and the charger will measure the internal resistance separately. you could try this with 3.0V battery and with 4.2V battery. i am not sure if that ll work for you.

If you really needed to fast charge 2.5V IMR batteries, you could use the LiFe battery type i guess. and then later switch program to LiIon BATT TYPE.

BTW, i am not gonna spill how the RAM battery type gets unlocked in 1.11. a certain key press combination is needed in GSV for this. But .. if someone gets the unlock code from sky, i wouldn't mind if the code got posted here on the folum.

just saying.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> @DeJaVu
> i am not sure if it will work but the manual states that you can hit UP+DOWN key in TOV and the charger will measure the internal resistance separately. you could try this with 3.0V battery and with 4.2V battery. i am not sure if that ll work for you.



It does work when you initiate it manually, but an option for automatic measurement wouldnt hurt anyone.



kreisl said:


> @DeJaVu
> If you really needed to fast charge 2.5V IMR batteries, you could use the LiFe battery type i guess. and then later switch program to LiIon BATT TYPE.


I suppose one could do it that way, but its inconvenient.Start life charging algorhytm, set timer, miss timer, and battery charged only to 3.6v is the end result. 
Either way, 3.2V seems too conservative as the xtar engineers choose this limit to 3.0V for vc4 which is a charger intended for all chemistries standard lion/IMR/INR 
Im sure we all know about xtar here and that it is an reputable charger maker, so i doubt that xtar would put it too low by an accident and risk safety.

We all got this charger because we want the best, perfection... So pull some strings , and make adjust-ability of those parameters happen  , especially the second one.


On another subject, did SkyRC in new revisions/batches worked/plans on working on the terminals so the charger works with all flat-top batteries with no problem?
Shouldn't be hard, right?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Seems like i am unable to update the firmware. The computer is not detecting the charger. "no Found a Device" error message. I checked the USB connections. I am on Windows 10 64-bit. Now it says "found a Device" but still won't update. Not even the PC link Software is detecting the charger. But in device manager. It detects it as a HID device.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Seems like i am unable to update the firmware. The computer is not detecting the charger. "no Found a Device" error message. I checked the USB connections. I am on Windows 10 64-bit. Now it says "found a Device" but still won't update. Not even the PC link Software is detecting the charger. But in device manager. It detects it as a HID device.



For debugging USB I normally use MIcrosoft's USBView utility. The download link betlow is for a version supported under Windows 98, ME,2000, XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1. I'm assuming should run ok under Windows 10 which has a similar core to Windows 8.x.

USBView is available for download as a .zip file by http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities/usbview.zip Please note the file must be unzipped before execution. 

USBView, can also be downloaded from Microsoft.com but MS doesn't provide any direct download link, as it's included witth debugging utilitiies.

http://https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff560019(v=vs.85).aspx

There are various dowload links from the Internet these are two that I know of.
____________________________

From USBview you need to find the USB port with the MC3000 connection. One method is to replug the MC3000 and observe from USBView which USB port becomes active. 

If the MC3000 is connected to your USB 2.0 Hub it should report a usb device and other information about the connection. If your PC has instead a USB 3.0 Hub normally means you are using a USB 2.0 Hub that's built into the USB 3.x HUB. Sometimes conflicts occur because the two integrated USB Hubs use different drivers. Sometimes if the USB 3.x driver is loaded first causes problems with the USB 2.0 Hub and devices.

While in USBView ( if you are able see a MC3000 usb port connection from usbview)

First Look under "Device Descriptor:"

There should be several lines that will show, 

iManufacturer: 0x01
0x0409: "STMicroelectronics"
iProduct: 0x02
0x0409: "STM32 Custm HID"
iSerialNumber: 0x03
0x0409: "Iÿpq?QRGAg"

Under "ConnectionStatus:" should show

DeviceConnected
Current Config Value: 0x01
Device Bus Speed: Full
Device Address: 0x01
Open Pipes: 2

This indicates that your PC USB recognizes the MC3000 from one of it's usb ports. 

From USBView you should see a list of USB Host Controllers, Under each Host Controller there will be root hubs, underwhich will be listed the available USB ports for the root hub.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Seems like i am unable to update the firmware. The computer is not detecting the charger. "no Found a Device" error message. I checked the USB connections. I am on Windows 10 64-bit. Now it says "found a Device" but still won't update. Not even the PC link Software is detecting the charger. But in device manager. It detects it as a HID device.



For debugging USB I normally use MIcrosoft's USBView utility. The download link betlow is for a version supported under Windows 98, ME,2000, XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1. I'm assuming should run ok under Windows 10 which has a similar core to Windows 8.x.

USBView is available for download as a .zip file by http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Utilities/usbview.zip Please note the file must be unzipped before execution. 

USBView, can also be downloaded from Microsoft.com but MS doesn't provide any direct download link, as it's included witth debugging utilitiies.

http://https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff560019(v=vs.85).aspx

There are various dowload links from the Internet these are two that I know of.
____________________________

From USBview you need to find the USB port with the MC3000 connection. One method is to replug the MC3000 and observe from USBView which USB port becomes active. 

If the MC3000 is connected to your USB 2.0 Hub it should report a usb device and other information about the connection. If your PC has instead a USB 3.0 Hub normally means you are using a USB 2.0 Hub that's built into the USB 3.x HUB. Sometimes conflicts occur because the two integrated USB Hubs use different drivers. Sometimes if the USB 3.x driver is loaded first causes problems with the USB 2.0 Hub and devices.

While in USBView ( if you are able see a MC3000 usb port connection from usbview)

First Look under "Device Descriptor:"

There should be several lines that will show, 

iManufacturer: 0x01
0x0409: "STMicroelectronics"
iProduct: 0x02
0x0409: "STM32 Custm HID"
iSerialNumber: 0x03
0x0409: "Iÿpq?QRGAg"

Under "ConnectionStatus:" should show

DeviceConnected
Current Config Value: 0x01
Device Bus Speed: Full
Device Address: 0x01
Open Pipes: 2

This indicates that your PC USB recognizes the MC3000 from one of it's usb ports. 

From USBView you should see a list of USB Host Controllers, Under each Host Controller there will be root hubs, underwhich will be listed the available USB ports for the root hub.

Note: Some PCs may have different types of USB Host Controllers with different bandwidths. E.g my older PC has a Universal Host Controller with maximum bandwidth = (12000 bits/ms = 1.5 MB/s) and also a "USB2 Enhanced Host Contoller" maxiumum bandwidth = (448000 bits/ms = 56 MB/s).

_*Link with information about USB Device Tree Viewer. A modified version of USBView from MS, includes download Links for 32 and 64 bit versions*_

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/usb-device-tree-viewer-download


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'll definitely check it out. The thing is that before. I did not have this problem , and the pc link was able to read the firmware version using the exact same cable. The laptop is USB 2.0 only. The only usb driver i installed was the Samsung usb for mobile phones. I did uninstall it, but still won't detect the charger. When i checked the sub category of hid device. Windows thinks that the charger is a usb game controller. Something odd is going on.


----------



## sns

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I'll definitely check it out. The thing is that before. I did not have this problem , and the pc link was able to read the firmware version using the exact same cable. The laptop is USB 2.0 only. The only usb driver i installed was the Samsung usb for mobile phones. I did uninstall it, but still won't detect the charger. When i checked the sub category of hid device. Windows thinks that the charger is a usb game controller. Something odd is going on.



Did You check hidden drivers/devices installed? In Device Manager - option to show hidden stuff. Might be a good idea to find this particular driver that fails, uninstall it and then let Windows install it again upon insertion.


----------



## Dutchman01

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> @DeJaVu
> i am not sure if it will work but the manual states that you can hit UP+DOWN key in TOV and the charger will measure the internal resistance separately. you could try this with 3.0V battery and with 4.2V battery. i am not sure if that ll work for you.
> 
> If you really needed to fast charge 2.5V IMR batteries, you could use the LiFe battery type i guess. and then later switch program to LiIon BATT TYPE.
> 
> BTW, i am not gonna spill how the RAM battery type gets unlocked in 1.11. a certain key press combination is needed in GSV for this. But .. if someone gets the unlock code from sky, i wouldn't mind if the code got posted here on the folum.
> 
> just saying.



I think the unlock code should have been published in the manual under a separate section and not kept secret right from the start.
BTW, someone knows what is the sequence to the hidden LCD Game?


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Will chargers manufactured from this point on come pre-installed with the new firmware I wonder?


----------



## Dutchman01

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Minimoog said:


> Will chargers manufactured from this point on come pre-installed with the new firmware I wonder?



Yes, it will


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> ... Either way, 3.2V seems too conservative as the xtar engineers choose this limit to 3.0V for vc4 which is a charger intended for all chemistries standard lion/IMR/INR. Im sure we all know about xtar here and that it is an reputable charger maker, so i doubt that xtar would put it too low by an accident and risk safety...



Your claim about XTAR seems to presume that they have an engineer that has significant expertise on (IR of) Li-ion cells. But I highly doubt that is true for any of the (Chinese) manufacturers of cheap consumer level chargers. 

In any case, I do agree with you that it would be more useful if the IR low SOC cutoff is user-configurable. My prior remarks were not meant to be read as arguing against that but, rather, as raising awareness about how IR increases at very low SOC.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Your claim about XTAR seems to presume that they have an engineer that has significant expertise on (IR of) Li-ion cells. But I highly doubt that is true for any of the (Chinese) manufacturers of cheap consumer level chargers.
> 
> In any case, I do agree with you that it would be more useful if the IR low SOC cutoff is user-configurable. My prior remarks were not meant to be read as arguing against that but, rather, as raising awareness about how IR increases at very low SOC.



And you presume that they don't have that engineer? Either way both of our statements are made up by only perception of company/market, so lets just choose our truth and stick to it . Only xtar knows the truth .
It still is irrefutable that xtar does make some of the best consumer chargers on the market today.

Either way, part of the post you quoted wasnt connected in any way to the IR measurement discussion, as the VC4 doesnt have that option(and afaik no charger from xtar does). I brought it up as an example for the reduced starting charge current if a battery is below certain voltage(3.2v on the MC3000 vs 3.0v on the xtar VC4).


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> It still is irrefutable that xtar does make some of the best consumer chargers on the market today.



XTAR is in the same league as the most other (analyzing) charger manufactures (Opus, Liitokala, etc). None of these companies have the budget to hire experts on Li-ion tech (as do larger companies such as Texas Instruments). As such, I recommend _not _to trust these smaller (Chinese) companies when it comes to safety matters.


----------



## verdum

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Win 10 x64. Used USB2.0 ports.
Update went of without a hitch.

Thx to kreisl !


----------



## tadatin

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Your claim about XTAR seems to presume that they have an engineer that has significant expertise on (IR of) Li-ion cells. But I highly doubt that is true for any of the (Chinese) manufacturers of cheap consumer level chargers...



Exactly. They have some engineers, and sometime they are quite skilled. But most times they are just manufacturers and you should check everything, do not trust anything.


----------



## tjh

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

@kreisl: What was #k51? Why is is *******'d out now?

*confused*


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sns said:


> Did You check hidden drivers/devices installed? In Device Manager - option to show hidden stuff. Might be a good idea to find this particular driver that fails, uninstall it and then let Windows install it again upon insertion.



I did exactly that. Windows now sees "STM32 Custom HID" I ran the PC Link software. The upgrade firmware options is grayed out. and PC link is getting no readings from the charger when i inserted a battery either. When trying to upgrade firmware. I get "Not Found a Device". The interesting part is when i unplug the usb while i have the program opened. It says "Device was Removed" and when plugging back in, would say "Found a Device" but still won't flash the firmware. Do i have to reinstall Windows? It used to work before.

Update: So i plug in a Bootable flash drive of Windows 8PE (a customPE with internet access, etc). In WinPE 8 environment. The PC sees the charger! no problem!! In PC Link as well as the firmware program which says "My Device was found Some data was send" Why doesn't it work with Windows 10?? This is getting ridiculous lol. I am reinstalling Windows 10. Gotta love Microsoft for these WinPE environments. They can spot issues in ways that you won't go insane! lol.


Windows 10 reinstalled. and nope. No dice, same issue. I don't know how you guys manage to get it to work with Windows 10. It is not working for me. I willing to bet that this will work on Windows 8


This is what USB Device Tree Viewer reports



=========================== USB Port2 ===========================


Connection Status : 0x01 (Device is connected)
Port Chain : 1-2
Properties : 0x01
IsUserConnectable : yes
PortIsDebugCapable : no
PortHasMultiCompanions : no


======================== USB Device ========================


+++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++
Device Description : USB Input Device
Device Path : \\?\usb#vid_0000&pid_0001#5&2a0ad64e&0&2#{a5dcbf10-6530-11d2-901f-00c04fb951ed}
Device ID : USB\VID_0000&PID_0001\5&2A0AD64E&0&2
Driver KeyName : {745a17a0-74d3-11d0-b6fe-00a0c90f57da}\0000 (GUID_DEVCLASS_HIDCLASS)
Driver : C:\Windows\System32\drivers\hidusb.sys (Version: 10.0.10240.16384 Date: 2015-07-10)
Driver Inf : C:\Windows\inf\input.inf
Legacy BusType : PNPBus
Class : HIDClass
Class GUID : {745a17a0-74d3-11d0-b6fe-00a0c90f57da} (GUID_DEVCLASS_HIDCLASS)
Interface GUID : {a5dcbf10-6530-11d2-901f-00c04fb951ed} (GUID_DEVINTERFACE_USB_DEVICE)
Service : HidUsb
Enumerator : USB
Location Info : Port_#0002.Hub_#0005
Location IDs : PCIROOT(0)#PCI(1D00)#USBROOT(0)#USB(2), ACPI(_SB_)#ACPI(PCI0)#ACPI(USB0)#USBROOT(0)#USB(2)
Container ID : {979c59fa-3a88-11e6-9bc4-2c8158e5a3c0}
Manufacturer Info : (Standard system devices)
Capabilities : 0x84 (Removable, SurpriseRemovalOK)
Problem Code : 0
Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2)
Child Device 1 : HID-compliant device
Device ID : HID\VID_0000&PID_0001\6&DB20618&0&0000
Class : HIDClass


---------------- Connection Information ---------------
Connection Index : 0x02 (2)
Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected)
Current Config Value : 0x01
Device Address : 0x01 (1)
Is Hub : 0x00 (no)
Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2)
Device Bus Speed : 0x01 (Full-Speed)
Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0)
Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x02 (2)


--------------- Connection Information V2 -------------
Connection Index : 0x02 (2)
Length : 0x10 (16 bytes)
SupportedUsbProtocols : 0x01
Usb110 : 1 (yes)
Usb200 : 0 (no)
Usb300 : 0 (no)
ReservedMBZ : 0x00
Flags : 0x00
DevIsOpAtSsOrHigher : 0 (Is not operating at SuperSpeed or higher)
DevIsSsCapOrHigher : 0 (Is not SuperSpeed capable or higher)
DevIsOpAtSsPlusOrHigher : 0 (Is not operating at SuperSpeedPlus or higher)
DevIsSsPlusCapOrHigher : 0 (Is not SuperSpeedPlus capable or higher)
 ReservedMBZ : 0x00


------------------ Device Descriptor ------------------
bLength : 0x12 (18 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x01 (Device Descriptor)
bcdUSB : 0x200 (USB Version 2.00)
bDeviceClass : 0x00 (defined by the interface descriptors)
bDeviceSubClass : 0x00
bDeviceProtocol : 0x00
bMaxPacketSize0 : 0x40 (64 bytes)
idVendor : 0x0000
idProduct : 0x0001
bcdDevice : 0x0200
iManufacturer : 0x01 (String Descriptor 1)
Language 0x0409 : "STMicroelectronics"
iProduct : 0x02 (String Descriptor 2)
Language 0x0409 : "STM32 Custm HID"
iSerialNumber : 0x03 (String Descriptor 3)
Language 0x0409 : "Uÿop?SI(g" *!*CAUTION contains character below 0x20 *!*CAUTION contains character above 0x7E
bNumConfigurations : 0x01


------------------ String Descriptors -----------------
------ String Descriptor 0 ------
bLength : 0x04 (4 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language ID[0] : 0x0409 (English - United States)
------ String Descriptor 1 ------
bLength : 0x26 (38 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "STMicroelectronics"
------ String Descriptor 2 ------
bLength : 0x20 (32 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "STM32 Custm HID"
------ String Descriptor 3 ------
bLength : 0x1A (26 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "Uÿop?SI(g" *!*CAUTION contains character below 0x20


---------------- Configuration Descriptor -----------------
bLength : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x02 (Configuration Descriptor)
wTotalLength : 0x0029 (41 bytes)
bNumInterfaces : 0x01
bConfigurationValue : 0x01
iConfiguration : 0x00 (No String Descriptor)
bmAttributes : 0x80
D7: Reserved, set 1 : 0x01
D6: Self Powered : 0x00 (no)
D5: Remote Wakeup : 0x00 (no)
D4..0: Reserved, set 0 : 0x00
MaxPower : 0x20 (64 mA)


---------------- Interface Descriptor -----------------
bLength : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x04 (Interface Descriptor)
bInterfaceNumber : 0x00
bAlternateSetting : 0x00
bNumEndpoints : 0x02 (2 Endpoints)
bInterfaceClass : 0x03 (HID - Human Interface Device)
bInterfaceSubClass : 0x01 (Boot Interface)
bInterfaceProtocol : 0x02 (Mouse)
iInterface : 0x00 (No String Descriptor)


------------------- HID Descriptor --------------------
bLength : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x21 (HID Descriptor)
bcdHID : 0x0101 (HID Version 1.01)
bCountryCode : 0x00 (00 = not localized)
bNumDescriptors : 0x01
Descriptor 1:
bDescriptorType : 0x22 (Class=Report)
wDescriptorLength : 0x001B (27 bytes)
Error reading descriptor : ERROR_INVALID_PARAMETER


----------------- Endpoint Descriptor -----------------
bLength : 0x07 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x05 (Endpoint Descriptor)
bEndpointAddress : 0x81 (Direction=IN EndpointID=1)
bmAttributes  : 0x03 (TransferType=Interrupt)
wMaxPacketSize : 0x0040 (64 bytes)
bInterval : 0x0A (10 ms)


----------------- Endpoint Descriptor -----------------
bLength : 0x07 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x05 (Endpoint Descriptor)
bEndpointAddress : 0x01 (Direction=OUT EndpointID=1)
bmAttributes : 0x03 (TransferType=Interrupt)
wMaxPacketSize : 0x0040 (64 bytes)
bInterval : 0x10 (16 ms)


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



tjh said:


> @kreisl: What was #k51? Why is is *******'d out now?
> 
> *confused*



good point.

lemme check


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Have you lost your programming after the update?


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> Have you lost your programming after the update?


Yes, indeed (as expected)


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I reset my charger to default settings before and after the flash just in case, though this seems not to be needed.

John.


----------



## ilgrank

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

W10 x64: updated without any problem.
Now how just do I stop the not-so-hidden game?(edit: I mean the breakout-style 'screensaver' with a ball making a beep every time it hits the brick) It makes continuous beeps whenever I leave the charger powered up doing nothing...


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ilgrank said:


> W10 x64: updated without any problem.
> Now how just do I stop the not-so-hidden game?(edit: I mean the breakout-style 'screensaver' with a ball making a beep every time it hits the brick) It makes continuous beeps whenever I leave the charger powered up doing nothing...


Read the updated manual for how to turn it off?


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> ... I brought it up as an example for the reduced starting charge current if a battery is below certain voltage(3.2v on the MC3000 vs 3.0v on the xtar VC4).


I second that. Full charge current should be applied at least from 3.0V onwards, not 3.2V.
It takes forever on a discharged high-current ("IMR") 26650 to reach 3.2V and finally go to full charging current.


----------



## ilgrank

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Read the updated manual for how to turn it off?


Yes, I've read the updated manual, and I don't want to turn off system beeps, just the 'game' ones. I don't want my idle charger to be beeping all the time.
I've missed some part?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ilgrank said:


> Yes, I've read the updated manual, and I don't want to turn off system beeps, just the 'game' ones. I don't want my idle charger to be beeping all the time.
> I've missed some part?


Yeah.
Turn off the screen saver.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Yeah.
> Turn off the screen saver.



I haven't updated mine yet, I should point out.
But if the screensaver BEEPS every time it's in use, that is the stupidest thing I have ever, ever heard of. I can't believe that krisel would have signed that off...
I hope I misunderstand your post


----------



## Curetia

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

No the screensaver beeps every few seconds when the screensaver is activated 
But while you charge or discharge the display won't go into the screensaver mode.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



light-wolff said:


> I second that. Full charge current should be applied at least from 3.0V onwards, not 3.2V.
> It takes forever on a discharged high-current ("IMR") 26650 to reach 3.2V and finally go to full charging current.


Ohhh, as i dont use 26650(but plan on getting few soon) didnt even think of that group of people.*
Must be even more dissapointing charger feature for 26650 than with charging 18650.
But im sure(at very least hope) theyll address this limitation for IMR/INR users.

@kreisl, you probably missed it, but in my previuos post i asked you about some info about the charger terminals.
I know you mentioned in one of your posts that SkyRC is improwing the design/materials of the charger with every revision/batch.
So i would like to know did SkyRC solve/planing to solve the problem with the terminals? By which i mean the terminals not being able to make propper contact with many flat top cell models(in my case more than 50% i own), and being forced to use magnets or raising the battery.**

Even though this isnt mentioned here much as i suppose most of the flashaholics use button top batteries, or panasonic flattops(do they all have bit raised + as my 18500 panasonic?).

I might be the only one writing here about it, but im sure that im not the only one that has this issue and finds this as a minus for the charger.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Windows 10 reinstalled. and nope. No dice, same issue. I don't know how you guys manage to get it to work with Windows 10. It is not working for me. I willing to bet that this will work on Windows 8




Your USBView report appears nearly identical to mine under Windows Vista 64-Bit.

I did find a few differences.

Windows 10:____________________________________

Device Description : USB Input Device
Driver : C:\Windows\System32\drivers\hidusb.sys (Version: 10.0.10240.16384 Date: 2015-07-10)

Windows 10 additionally includes:
a "--------------- Connection Information V2 -------------" 

Location IDs : PCIROOT(0)#PCI(1D00)#USBROOT(0)#USB(2), ACPI(_SB_)#ACPI(PCI0)#ACPI(USB0)#USBROOT(0)#USB(2)
Container ID : {979c59fa-3a88-11e6-9bc4-2c8158e5a3c0}

Windows Vista:__________________________________

Device Description : USB Human Interface Device
Driver : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\hidusb.sys (Version: 6.0.6002.18005 Date: 2009-04-10)

_______

Differences found within USB MC3000 connection reports Windows 10 vs Windows Vista

Device description "USB Input Device" (Windows 10) vs "USB Human Interface Device" (Windows Vista)

The hidusb.sys Driver versions are different (Version: 10.0.10240.16384 Date: 2015-07-10)-(Windows 10) vs (Version: 6.0.6002.18005 Date: 2009-04-10)-(Windows Vista)

Windows 10 also includes V2 Connection Information, a Location IDs and Container ID
__________________________

There are a few things you can try:

1. In device manager under "Universal Serial Bus Controllers" there will be several "Root Hubs". You need to go into the properties power management tab of each "Root Hub" and turn off "Allow computer to turn off this device" and/or deselect any power options for the root hub.

Unless you know which root hub usb port is being used for the MC3000 you need to deselect power functions for all the root hubs.

2. You can try up or down grading USB drivers but requires some knowledge of the history versions of Windows 10 USB drivers.

3. Sometimes powering down your PC and the USB device then repowering the usb device, making a connection to the PC and then repowering the PC helps to establish a USB connection to a USB device that's having problems or isn't recognized by the OS.


----------



## ilgrank

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I haven't updated mine yet, I should point out.
> But if the screensaver BEEPS every time it's in use, that is the stupidest thing I have ever, ever heard of. I can't believe that krisel would have signed that off...
> I hope I misunderstand your post



You got it perfecty right: the screensaver beeps every time the ball hits the logo, ie every 2-3 seconds.
And yes, one of the most annoying things I ever seen 
I've found the menu to disable the screensaver tho.. it would be nice to just disable the screensaver SOUND instead of disabling the screensaver altogether.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ravel said:


> Yes, indeed (as expected)



Thank you. Update done in less than a minute on Windows 7 Pro 64bits via usb2.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I don't know what to do. Fresh installed Windows 10. Windows sees that some HID device is detected. This can't be this hard. Just plug and flash lol. I am coming to the conclusion that the program is not really compatible with Windows 10. If PC link can't detect the charger. I highly doubt that the flash program can detect it either. I did came up with a workaround. I could Boot Winpe 8 and flash from there. Just not sure how safe would that be since WinPE is a stripped down version of windows and it is custom, but at least the firmware program sees the charger. Or i could dual boot with Windows 8 or 7. For those that got it to work on Windows 10. Must be a special driver that i am not aware of because from a fresh install. No dice lol.

USB Device Tree Viewer on Win8PE. Ignore why Windows is on X drive lol, but it works.





=========================== USB Port1 ===========================


Connection Status : 0x01 (Device is connected)
Port Chain : 6-1
Properties : 0x01
IsUserConnectable : yes
PortIsDebugCapable : no
PortHasMultiCompanions : no


======================== USB Device ========================


+++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++
Device Description : USB Input Device
Device Path : \\.\usb#vid_0000&pid_0001#5&2a0ad64e&0&1#{a5dcbf10-6530-11d2-901f-00c04fb951ed}
Device ID : USB\VID_0000&PID_0001\5&2A0AD64E&0&1
Driver KeyName : {745a17a0-74d3-11d0-b6fe-00a0c90f57da}\0000 (GUID_DEVCLASS_HIDCLASS)
Driver : X:\Windows\System32\drivers\hidusb.sys (Version: 6.3.9600.16384 Date: 2013-08-22)
Driver Inf : X:\Windows\inf\input.inf
Legacy BusType : PNPBus
Class : HIDClass
Class GUID : {745a17a0-74d3-11d0-b6fe-00a0c90f57da} (GUID_DEVCLASS_HIDCLASS)
Interface GUID : {a5dcbf10-6530-11d2-901f-00c04fb951ed} (GUID_DEVINTERFACE_USB_DEVICE)
Service : HidUsb
Enumerator : USB
Location Info : Port_#0001.Hub_#0006
Location IDs : PCIROOT(0)#PCI(1D00)#USBROOT(0)#USB(1), ACPI(_SB_)#ACPI(PCI0)#ACPI(USB0)#USBROOT(0)#USB(1)
Container ID : {5e0ac713-3afd-11e6-824c-0024beac9d44}
Manufacturer Info : (Standard system devices)
Capabilities : 0x84 (Removable, SurpriseRemovalOK)
Problem Code : 0
Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2)
Child Device 1 : HID-compliant device
Device ID : HID\VID_0000&PID_0001\6&36931F7A&0&0000
Class : HIDClass


---------------- Connection Information ---------------
Connection Index : 0x01 (1)
Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected)
Current Config Value : 0x01
Device Address : 0x01 (1)
Is Hub : 0x00 (no)
Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2)
Device Bus Speed : 0x01 (Full-Speed)
Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0)
Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x02 (2)


--------------- Connection Information V2 -------------
Connection Index : 0x01 (1)
Length : 0x10 (16 bytes)
SupportedUsbProtocols : 0x01
Usb110 : 1 (yes)
Usb200 : 0 (no)
Usb300 : 0 (no)
ReservedMBZ : 0x00
Flags : 0x00
DevIsOpAtSsOrHigher : 0 (Is not operating at SuperSpeed or higher)
DevIsSsCapOrHigher : 0 (Is not SuperSpeed capable or higher)
DevIsOpAtSsPlusOrHigher : 0 (Is not operating at SuperSpeedPlus or higher)
DevIsSsPlusCapOrHigher : 0 (Is not SuperSpeedPlus capable or higher)
ReservedMBZ : 0x00


------------------ Device Descriptor ------------------
bLength : 0x12 (18 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x01 (Device Descriptor)
bcdUSB : 0x200 (USB Version 2.00)
bDeviceClass : 0x00 (defined by the interface descriptors)
bDeviceSubClass : 0x00
bDeviceProtocol : 0x00
bMaxPacketSize0 : 0x40 (64 bytes)
idVendor : 0x0000
idProduct : 0x0001
bcdDevice : 0x0200
iManufacturer : 0x01 (String Descriptor 1)
Language 0x0409 : "STMicroelectronics"
iProduct : 0x02 (String Descriptor 2)
Language 0x0409 : "STM32 Custm HID"
iSerialNumber : 0x03 (String Descriptor 3)
Language 0x0409 : "Uÿop?SI(g" *!*CAUTION contains character below 0x20 *!*CAUTION contains character above 0x7E
bNumConfigurations : 0x01


------------------ String Descriptors -----------------
------ String Descriptor 0 ------
bLength : 0x04 (4 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language ID[0] : 0x0409 (English - United States)
------ String Descriptor 1 ------
bLength : 0x26 (38 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "STMicroelectronics"
------ String Descriptor 2 ------
bLength : 0x20 (32 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "STM32 Custm HID"
------ String Descriptor 3 ------
bLength : 0x1A (26 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x03 (String Descriptor)
Language 0x0409 : "Uÿop?SI(g" *!*CAUTION contains character below 0x20


---------------- Configuration Descriptor -----------------
bLength : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x02 (Configuration Descriptor)
wTotalLength : 0x0029 (41 bytes)
bNumInterfaces : 0x01
bConfigurationValue : 0x01
iConfiguration : 0x00 (No String Descriptor)
bmAttributes : 0x80
D7: Reserved, set 1 : 0x01
D6: Self Powered : 0x00 (no)
D5: Remote Wakeup : 0x00 (no)
D4..0: Reserved, set 0 : 0x00
MaxPower : 0x20 (64 mA)


---------------- Interface Descriptor -----------------
bLength : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x04 (Interface Descriptor)
bInterfaceNumber : 0x00
bAlternateSetting : 0x00
bNumEndpoints : 0x02 (2 Endpoints)
bInterfaceClass : 0x03 (HID - Human Interface Device)
bInterfaceSubClass : 0x01 (Boot Interface)
bInterfaceProtocol : 0x02 (Mouse)
iInterface : 0x00 (No String Descriptor)


------------------- HID Descriptor --------------------
bLength : 0x09 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x21 (HID Descriptor)
bcdHID : 0x0101 (HID Version 1.01)
bCountryCode : 0x00 (00 = not localized)
bNumDescriptors : 0x01
Descriptor 1:
bDescriptorType : 0x22 (Class=Report)
wDescriptorLength : 0x001B (27 bytes)
Error reading descriptor : ERROR_GEN_FAILURE


----------------- Endpoint Descriptor -----------------
bLength : 0x07 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x05 (Endpoint Descriptor)
bEndpointAddress : 0x81 (Direction=IN EndpointID=1)
bmAttributes : 0x03 (TransferType=Interrupt)
wMaxPacketSize : 0x0040 (64 bytes)
bInterval : 0x0A (10 ms)


----------------- Endpoint Descriptor -----------------
bLength : 0x07 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x05 (Endpoint Descriptor)
bEndpointAddress : 0x01 (Direction=OUT EndpointID=1)
bmAttributes : 0x03 (TransferType=Interrupt)
wMaxPacketSize : 0x0040 (64 bytes)
bInterval : 0x10 (16 ms)


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I don't know what to do. Fresh installed Windows 10. Windows sees that some HID device is detected.



I assume you have 1. tried connecting to other USB Ports? 2. disconnect all other usb devices from the PC while attempting to perform the update?
3. Tested other USB 2.0 devices under Windows 10, possibly a USB device such as a cell phone, etc. that needs to talk / communicate bidirectionally to the PC ?

Other things to try. Boot to Windows 10 safe mode and initiate a USB connection. If usb connection is available initiate the firmware upgrade under Safe Mode. If successful then test the MC3000 usb connection using the PC-Link software.

Try booting to another Windows version if possible. If you have a Windows XP version that can be booted from another partition or drive? 

Upgrading firmware instructions:

1. Remove all batteries, disconnect all USB cables and power cables, deactivate Bluetooth 
everywhere, close and exit all software and hardware on your Windows PC which access the 
USB communication. Connect the device to its power supply.

2. Use the PC Link premium USB data cable to connect the device to your Windows PC. In 
many cases no further device drivers or USB drivers need to be installed. Launch the official 
PC Link software and test the functionality of the software.

3. (N/A)

4. Depending on the firmware version the updating process may conclude with an automatic 
soft reset, or not. The user is at liberty to check the update success and, if needed, perform a 
manual Factory Reset on top, see GSV.

*Additional* instructions for applying the 1.11 firmware update:

0. Application of this firmware updater *.EXE has been approved on WinXP SP3. All other Windows PC
operating systems have not been approved for the application of this firmware updater *.EXE


----------



## gyzmo2002

Someboby has tried to disable the bip sound? 

If I set the key bip off, the key bip is disabled, that is correct but it disable also the system beep too even if the System Beep is set to ON...??🤔

The System Beep is when a status is completed and when there is a system alarm? I think so.

Key Beep OFF and System Beep ON, I don't have the 10 beeps when the charge is completed...


----------



## MarioJP

Yaaaayy!! Finally. Ended up dual boot with Windows 8.1 after all, and that worked! Firmware successfully updated on both my chargers. The thought of trying different OS's just for this is a bit too much bit at last. lol



Ok, i can see how the screensaver can get annoying really fast because of the beep. For now, i turned off the screensaver.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I finally was able to update with Windows prof. Service pack 1. Downloaded and used the USB view software and a few tries. Had error 1 but at a point it just started and worked.

I had bricked my charger but the enter button information helped.

Thanks for all the information, without the help and hints here i was really sure I had to buy a new one !


----------



## Ravel

*Re: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*



kreisl said:


> The below comprises a redacted filtered list of reasonable realistic feasible likable serious strong or urgent suggestions, nothing too distant from the present state of things. ...


[h=2]List quoted above at http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list[/h] Hello,

Here is a FW improvement request to be seconded please (or questionnned/challenged).
AFAIK not yet discussed.
Lets call it OnCapacityNextJump
Thanks. Regards


WHAT 
Jump to next step (during refresh or cycle) when a userset capacity (OnCapacityNext)
is reached during charging. 
For NiMH. Not thought of the needs on other chemistries.
By the way if criterion deltaVPeak is reached first, charger would continue as in today FW.

WHY 
a) Dealing with old NiMH that do not stop on delta V peak.
b) Healthy batteries that I do not want to fully cycle, to increase lifetime, or be quicker (shorten charging cycle)
c) A way to implement early charging termination-continuation, for whatever reasons.


HOW
In advanced mode obviously, as a program option. 
Some suggestions, in SPV, either: 


1) When the actual CAPACITY parameter is set to off. 
A new line just below with a parameter called OnCapacityNext becomes available for edit.
(same ranges of mAh as CAPACITY, unless somebody see a safety issue).
Safety capacity cutoff possibly disabled in this implementation. 
Maybe easier to update FW code this way.


2) The actual CAPACITY parameter is set to a user value, normally. 
Then a new line just below with a parameter called OnCapacityNext 
becomes available for edit, only two choices possible {OFF | ON} or
it could display {OFF | CAPACITY - 100 mAh} where CAPACITY - 100 would be
calculated automatically. This way cuttoff on capacity may still be implemented.
I assume a 100 mAh difference is enough.
If only ON was displayed, the manual would explain that
OnCapacityNext = CAPACITY - 100 mAh
Would work only from 200 mAh then.


3) The capacity parameter could be set to a positive, OFF, or negative value. 
Would be confusing and negative CAPACITY would have here a different meaning. 
In this implementation one could use
capacity as a safety cutoff only if there was a hardcoded
CAPACITYcutoff = Abs(CAPACITY)+100
This implementation only suggested as a way to save one line in SPV if ever needed.


----------



## tjh

*Re: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*

Firmware v1.11 update went fine on Windows 10 x64.

I plugged the charger directly into my laptop, checked with MC3000, loaded up the Update app and it went without a hitch.

Thanks all!


----------



## fraktl

Success for me as well on Windows 10 Pro x64


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Guys, do not change the title of a thread unless the OP wants to do that.

Bil


----------



## MarioJP

Got couple of questions that i am confused about.

1. In Eneloop mode. What's so special about this mode compared to Ni-MH? Is it a predefined capacity based on which version of Eneloop is selected?

2.I noticed when charging cells. The readings on the charger is not as real-time as i thought to believe. In other words, when i select a slot number. In SOV, the average voltage readings seems to be in real-time than the readings in TOV. Any explanation about this?

3. In trickle charge. every couple of seconds or so the current mA value will go from where is it and drop to 0 and return to that value and repeats. Just curious why it does that.

That's all the questions i have for now. 

Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

looks like the manual has been updated to v1.10 . some typos corrected afaik . RAM is now also mentioned near the end of the manual, still unofficial though . 

i am seeing some questions here since the publiquement of the new firmware, i see. will try to find all the answers thanks!


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi guys, I've got some IMR 18350 900MAH 3.7V.

Witch Termination should I use? *Zero ?*

Thanks.


----------



## Albert_

MarioJP said:


> Yaaaayy!! Finally. Ended up dual boot with Windows 8.1 after all, and that worked! Firmware successfully updated on both my chargers. The thought of trying different OS's just for this is a bit too much bit at last. lol
> 
> Ok, i can see how the screensaver can get annoying really fast because of the beep. For now, i turned off the screensaver.



Glad you go it to work under Windows 8.1.

Woking ok under Windows 8.1 indicates the problem may have been with Windows 10's new features and possibly new methods of handling media and USB devices with your PC's hardware and drivers.

From what I've read about Windows 8.x and Windows 10 the OSs core engine is nearly the same except for any new OS features and the Windows Desktop Manager. Windows 10 uses a different GUI than Windows 8.

Installations may differ somewhat between PC's hardware and drivers. It would be interesting to know if the PC-Link software runs ok under safe mode? If the PC-Link software functions under safe-mode indicates something being enabled, and/or loaded upon a normal boot-up that's preventing your USB to work normally. Safe-mode starts Windows in a basic state, using a limited set of files and drivers, IIRC should have USB support.


----------



## MarioJP

Albert_ said:


> It would be interesting to know if the PC-Link software runs ok under safe mode? If the PC-Link software functions under safe-mode indicates something being enabled, and/or loaded upon a normal boot-up that's preventing your USB to work normally. Safe-mode starts Windows in a basic state, using a limited set of files and drivers, IIRC should have USB support.



Tried in safe mode no dice. Doesn't matter which port i plug the charger. I could hear a detection of new hardware, even goes as far as installing the driver for your hardware and is now ready to use. But nope no dice. I gave up and used win 8 instead. I do notice that wondows update tells me that there is a new version of windows 10 build 1511 and i am on build 10240. Whelp time to reinstall windows 10 with 1511 build and test to see if windows 10 finally can see the charger.


----------



## Ferdinando

Successfully update FW to 1.11
My HW Ver. 1.4+
Win7 64 Home Ed.

Thanks to Kreisl, SKYRC and CPF.


----------



## MarioJP

Everything is all good now. PC link now sees the charger under Windows 10. The conclusion. For those that did not have a problem when updating the firmware under Windows 10. This is because you guys were on build "1511" of the OS. Moral of the story. Windows updates good for you. I had it turned off because it was annoying. Just can't win in a Microsoft world lol.


----------



## tjh

v3.0 of the Android Bluetooth App was released to the Play Store last night (New Zealand time)


----------



## sns

After update.
MC3000 Monitor now freezes a bit later, but freezes anyway.
DEX does work as installed 3.2.6 version.

Wonder if there will be some universal and really good (with controls) software for all chargers...


upd. Nope. DEX freezes as well... No USB data after some time. Restarting it helps sometimes, but not often...


----------



## Trancersteve

I have a eneloop that I've accidentally ran down to a very low voltage and the MC3000 will not recognise it. I'm assuming that there is nothing in the settings that can be modified to get this cell visible on the MC3000?


----------



## tjh

Trancersteve said:


> I have a eneloop that I've accidentally ran down to a very low voltage and the MC3000 will not recognise it. I'm assuming that there is nothing in the settings that can be modified to get this cell visible on the MC3000?


Try holding the SNB. That will pulse some voltage into the battery.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Try jump charging the empty cell with a good one, see faq below.

http://michaelbluejay.com/batteries/charging-tips.html

John.


----------



## rufus001

I have some Tenergy RCR123A 3.0V batteries I would like to charge with my MC3000. What is the safest way to determine the maximum voltage I should charge them to?


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

maybe this can help:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?220525-Tenergy-3-0V-RCR123A-final-voltage


----------



## Zanders

rufus001 said:


> I have some Tenergy RCR123A 3.0V batteries I would like to charge with my MC3000. What is the safest way to determine the maximum voltage I should charge them to?



I have a few of those to. What kind of cell is this and how to charge and discharge it without the built in electronics?
Curious about the real capacity, if I remeber correct they didn´t last long.




[/IMG]


----------



## JB

Gauss163 said:


> ProgressiveRC is well-known in the RC world for top-notch customer service, as a search will quickly confirm (see here or here for a couple random examples).
> 
> However, one thing to be aware of is that they seem to have changed their warranty terms on the MC3000. Initially it was lited as "limited lifetime" but now it is only "1 year" - a bit disappointing.





Gauss163 said:


> Get your facts straight. ProgressiveRC originally offered a "limited lifetime" warranty both on their Amazon page and their website. But now it has been downgraded to "1 year". There is no "conspiring". Only facts - which may be useful in purchasing decisions.



Just revisited this thread after a few months.

The funny thing is the manufacturer's manual states that the warranty is 1 year (page 41). So how can ProgressiveRC offer a "limited lifetime" warranty? Perhaps ProgressiveRC later realized this discrepancy and changed it to "1 year" to be in line with the manufacturer's warranty.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just tried updating my firmware to v 1.11 and the process stopped with this error: "start vector err1".

I'm using a laptop with Win XP SP3, so should not be an OS issue.



tjh said:


> I believe if you boot the device with enter pressed down (unplug all power, hold down enter, plug in power) you can reflash it.



I tried the above method to reflash my firmware but it is not working.

Note my original firmware was v 1.02.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Just tried updating my firmware to v 1.11 and the process stopped with this error: "start vector err1".
> 
> I'm using a laptop with Win XP SP3, so should not be an OS issue.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried the above method to reflash my firmware but it is not working.
> 
> Note my original firmware was v 1.02.



Get another USB cable, remove any USB hubs in the way and try again.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Get another USB cable, remove any USB hubs in the way and try again.



Hi. As a result of the earlier error I think the charger is now bricked. It just shows a blank screen upon power up.

Shouldn't my first step now be to un-brick the MC3k? I tried the suggestion of holding the enter button then powering up the MC3K, but it still shows a blank screen.

Anyway, I don't have any USB hubs in place (didn't when I first tried updating the fw). I did try your suggestion of using a different USB cable, but all I get now when plugging in the USB cable is a Win error message saying "USB Device Not Recognized".


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Hi. As a result of the earlier error I think the charger is now bricked. It just shows a blank screen upon power up.
> 
> Shouldn't my first step now be to un-brick the MC3k?
> 
> Anyway, I don't have any USB hubs in place (didn't when I first tried updating the fw). I did try your suggestion of using a different USB cable, but all I get now when plugging in the USB cable is a Win error message saying "USB Device Not Recognized".



It is unlikely the charger is bricked.
As you already quoted, power up the charger with the Enter button held down. This puts the charger into recovery mode.
Then try to update it again with a good USB cable.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> It is unlikely the charger is bricked.
> As you already quoted, power up the charger with the Enter button held down. This puts the charger into recovery mode.
> Then try to update it again with a good USB cable.



I did try the recovery mode and it did not work for me.

I held the enter button then powered up the MC3K, but it still shows a blank screen.

Anyone know if this recovery mode works if my original fw is v 1.02?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> I did try the recovery mode and it did not work for me.
> 
> I held the enter button then powered up the MC3K, but it still shows a blank screen.
> 
> Anyone know if this recovery mode works if my original fw is v 1.02?



Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*
Dummies guide to reflash a charger after a failed flash:
*
Step 0: Also, if you are using windows 10 make sure that you are up to date. You must be on build 1511. (Thanks to MarioJP)
Step 1: Get a better USB Cable
Step 2: Remove all and any USB devices/cables from your PC.
Step 3: Ensure no ports are in USB3 mode. Turn that off in your BIOS if you have to. Don't ask me how to do this.
Step 4: Remove all cables from the charger
Step 5: Holding the Enter Key on the charger, plug in the Power. *IT WILL POWER UP TO A BLANK SCREEN. THIS IS EXPECTED.
*Step 6: Plug in the known-good USB cable into the charger, then into your PC.
Step 7: Run the _UpgradeFirmware_MC3000_V11.exe _program. Ensure it says "My Device was Found" then probably it'll say "Some data was send". It should also show "Boot Version: 1.x" where x is probably 1.
Step 8: Click the update button again.


If Step 7 is failing (can't see your charger) then either:
1) You have managed to damange the built-in boot code of the charger. Almost impossible.
2) You have a bad PC/USB Cable/Windows install. Try another one. Borrow a friends PC.

The boot code that runs when you press Enter is hard coded. So it should always be possible to unbrick the charger by pressing enter when power is plugged in. The blank screen you get is expected, the charger is booting a very small "Boot Loader" and nothing else. This boot loader has nothing to do with the version of firmware your charger is/was running. It's burnt onto the EEPROM of the charger.

Hope this helps.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Also, if you are using windows 10 make sure that you are up to date. You must be on build 1511.


----------



## JB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> *
> Dummies guide to reflash a charger after a failed flash:
> *
> Step 1: Get a better USB Cable
> Step 2: Remove all and any USB devices/cables from your PC.
> Step 3: Ensure no ports are in USB3 mode. Turn that off in your BIOS if you have to. Don't ask me how to do this.
> Step 4: Remove all cables from the charger
> Step 5: Holding the Enter Key on the charger, plug in the Power. *IT WILL POWER UP TO A BLANK SCREEN. THIS IS EXPECTED.
> *Step 6: Plug in the known-good USB cable into the charger, then into your PC.
> Step 7: Run the _UpgradeFirmware_MC3000_V11.exe _program. Ensure it says "My Device was Found" then probably it'll say "Some data was send". It should also show "Boot Version: 1.x" where x is probably 1.
> Step 8: Click the update button again.
> 
> 
> If Step 7 is failing (can't see your charger) then either:
> 1) You have managed to damange the built-in boot code of the charger. Almost impossible.
> 2) You have a bad PC/USB Cable/Windows install. Try another one. Borrow a friends PC.
> 
> The boot code that runs when you press Enter is hard coded. So it should always be possible to unbrick the charger by pressing enter when power is plugged in. The blank screen you get is expected, the charger is booting a very small "Boot Loader" and nothing else. This boot loader has nothing to do with the version of firmware your charger is/was running. It's burnt onto the EEPROM of the charger.
> 
> Hope this helps.



Thanks for the detailed dummies guide. I did not know that the blank screen after recovery was to be expected.

Anyway, the good news is that Step 6-7-8 worked and now my charger is updated to 1.11 and working. Thanks again.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



JB said:


> Thanks for the detailed dummies guide. I did not know that the blank screen after recovery was to be expected.
> 
> Anyway, the good news is that Step 6-7-8 worked and now my charger is updated to 1.11 and working. Thanks again.



Excellent, good to hear


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Zanders said:


> Why not? Dust, coffee, metallic parts, cat/squirell hair whatever cover instead of an ugly cardboard box.


These days i am attending a small cute fuzzy dog and there is hair flying all over the place. So had to come up with an acceptable solution for the cover and i am vely satisfied with this one 

















At some point the cover itself will have collected enough dust to warrant some cleaning. Then i'd take some scotch packaging tape and dust off np 

The downsides of my above solution: 
- the cover is "not so compact" 
- the original MC3000 package padding gets used up

The upsides are:
- perfect fit and finish
- feels nice
- easy to clean with scotch
- can be reused as package padding in the retail box, why not

(…)

Btw i got myself another mc3k unit, it was drawn out of the latest production run June. I am examining it and it is a bit different, i.e. improved, compared with my old III/2015 eng unit, including re critical details of the CAD plastic construction inside. The PCB is v1.5, unchanged since 01/2016. Not only construction, I also heard that they had changed the supplier of the plastic material; i am sorry to hear that one batch got shipped out with inferior plastic quality earlier this year (see posted serial number list). Actually my new production sample is a bit special, i asked them not to apply any glue on the white connectors on the PCB, and the cooler has vertical fins for my personal enjoyment lol. As reference, the total weight of my unplugged new device is 619g on a +1g digital kitchen scale. Please could you guys share the weights of your units?

@tjh
Thanks for the detailed description of the unbricking procedure! 
Do you think that this is the so-called _*hard reset*_ which is mentioned but not documented in the manual? 
:candle:


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> As reference, the total weight of my unplugged new device is 619g on a +1g digital kitchen scale. Please could you guys share the weights of your units?
> :



623g on two different scales for my december 2015 (1.02) unit (grill removed)


----------



## rufus001

Zanders said:


> I have a few of those to...



Sorry. Someone way more knowledgeable than me will have to answer that.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

My MC3000 weighs 621g

John.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> @tjh
> Thanks for the detailed description of the unbricking procedure!
> Do you think that this is the so-called _*hard reset*_ which is mentioned but not documented in the manual?
> :candle:



I don't think it's a hard reset, no. It's just forcing the MC3000 to boot into it's tiny "Recovery/Boot" Firmware. This is the hard coded Firmware mentioned in that Video where they say "Early production units won't have flashing lights as the charger update". My early unit has Boot Firmware v1.1 (You can see this by booting into the recovery mode and then opening up the Flashing program, I have Boot v1.1.

I'd be curious to know what version of BootROM you have with your brand new production run unit - Probably ver 1.2 that has the "nice flashing lights while updating" change.

BTW everything I say is just speculation and guesswork based on what I've read, but it's how most devices with a flashable firmware work.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Step 7: Run the _UpgradeFirmware_MC3000_V11.exe _program. Ensure it says "My Device was Found" then probably it'll say "Some data was send". It should also show "Boot Version: 1.x" where x is probably 1.





tjh said:


> My early unit has Boot Firmware v1.1 (You can see this by booting into the recovery mode and then opening up the Flashing program, I have Boot v1.1.


i followed your steps. for the Boot Version it shows 1.4 :shrug:


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Interesting! Thanks for showing us.
Only SkyRC would know the differences, and I suspect they're minor. Well, we know one, the flashing LEDs during firmware update.


----------



## Swede74

gyzmo2002 said:


> 623g on two different scales for my december 2015 (1.02) unit (grill removed)



Is that before or after the firmware upgrade? :naughty:


----------



## gyzmo2002

Swede74 said:


> Is that before or after the firmware upgrade? :naughty:



It must be the weight of dust inside the charger lol.


----------



## ediaz

I have a litium battery with low power and I am getting all time "Check Voltage" warning. (the volt is 1,5)

There is any way to force to charge the litium battery? I can connect this battery to other to jump to some like 3.0 but I in a 90$ charger I expect to do this for me.

Regards!!


----------



## Rapster

ediaz said:


> I have a litium battery with low power and I am getting all time "Check Voltage" warning. (the volt is 1,5)
> 
> There is any way to force to charge the litium battery? I can connect this battery to other to jump to some like 3.0 but I in a 90$ charger I expect to do this for me.
> 
> Regards!!



Are you referring to lithium batteries or lithium-ion batteries? Those are two very different animals...

If you are referring to lithium (primary) batteries, then do not try to charge those...


----------



## samgab

Rapster said:


> Are you referring to lithium batteries or lithium-ion batteries? Those are two very different animals...
> 
> If you are referring to lithium (primary) batteries, then do not try to charge those...



Correct, and what is more, if the lithium-ion cell is down to 1.5 volts then it's irrevocably damaged, and the $90 charger is doing the right thing by rejecting it. Throw it (the cell, not the charger! ) away and in future don't let li-ion cells discharge below about 3.0V (depending on the specific chemistry this may vary a little, but never down to 2.5V, let alone 1.5V). First the anode copper current collector is dissolved into the electrolyte. This increases the self discharge rate of the cell, however, as the voltage is increased again above 2 volts, the copper ions which are dispersed throughout the electrolyte are precipitated as metallic copper wherever they happen to be, not necessarily back on the current collector foil. This is a dangerous situation which can ultimately cause a short circuit between the electrodes.


----------



## Gauss163

samgab said:


> Correct, and what is more, if the lithium-ion cell is down to 1.5 volts then it's irrevocably damaged, and the $90 charger is doing the right thing by rejecting it. Throw it (the cell, not the charger! ) away and in future don't let li-ion cells discharge below about 3.0V (depending on the specific chemistry this may vary a little, but never down to 2.5V, let alone 1.5V). ...



Many cells are fine discharged down to 2.5V. Most sources claim that the copper dissolution doesn't start occurring till below 1.5V, but the exact number will depend on chemistry etc.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@Kreisl is there a way to have battery-slot temperature logged into DEX ?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

BattTemp is already iirc being logged in DEX, as is Batt IR, SysTemp, Power, Energy, etc

i hope you can figure it out. i never needed to read the dex help documentation


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

in my DEX default config (i.e. just installed DEX, connected to MC3000 without any personalization) battery temp isnt't showed

I've tried

DEVICE --> Device_Tool_Box

and battery_temp checkbox were selected

I've de-check and re-check the checkbox, and so battery_temp were be showed (default color green)

However, (with a previously recorded data) the showed curve is a flat curve (all values are 0)


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

BattTemp is shown correctly in SOV and GSV, say 35Celsius, but logged as 0 in DEX?

i have no such problems with dex


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes, during charge, battery temp value was shown correctly (I don't remeber the value, but was coherent)
I will try to log again.
(this is not a critical issue for me however)
Thanks for support.


----------



## Budda

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> in my DEX default config (i.e. just installed DEX, connected to MC3000 without any personalization



Could you kindly tell me how did you do that? Thanks.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Budda said:


> Could you kindly tell me how did you do that? Thanks.



I had some trouble in the past, but with latest DEX version and connecting MC3000 through usb2 port (avoiding USB3 ports) all worked fine.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> I had some trouble in the past, but with latest DEX version and connecting MC3000 through usb2 port (avoiding USB3 ports) all worked fine.


There is also a practical tip, when you're logging with DEX and all works fine and you want to, for some reason, close/exit/quit/leave/kill DEX, then you cannot just close DEX the application. One must stop the logging neatly with the DEX _Stop gathering_ button first. Then you can exit DEX.

Otherwise ... 

And if all fails, simply restart the PC, restart DEX, and go.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> There is also a practical tip, when you're logging with DEX and all works fine and you want to, for some reason, close/exit/quit/leave/kill DEX, then you cannot just close DEX the application. One must stop the logging neatly with the DEX _Stop gathering_ button first. Then you can exit DEX.
> 
> Otherwise ...
> 
> And if all fails, simply restart the PC, restart DEX, and go.



start / stop gathering on my DEX
also start/stop functions on my MC3000

i.e. if I was charging, and I stop gathering, DEX stop logging
but also MC3000 stop to charge.

Is it the correct behavior ?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

yes, correct behavior. DEX can Start All and Stop All thru the startstopgatheringbutton.

if DEX is to log, then one should not operate the charger manually imo


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> @Kreisl is there a way to have battery-slot temperature logged into DEX ?



The CVS version (the developement version of DEX) does log the temperature OK.
See source code here
https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/dataexplorer

AFAIK
The latest stable version of DataExplorer is *3.2.6 
and does not log T for the MC3000*


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ravel said:


> The CVS version (the developement version of DEX) does log the temperature OK.
> See source code here
> https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/dataexplorer
> 
> AFAIK
> The latest stable version of DataExplorer is *3.2.6
> and does not log T for the MC3000*



many thanks for info. I think I will wait the feature will be implemented in stable version of DEX.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i believe it is true that the 3.2.6 only logs BattTemp and not SysTemp. 
i was able to update my installation with newer JAR file which does log SysTemp


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i believe it is true that the 3.2.6 only logs BattTemp and not SysTemp.
> i was able to update my installation with newer JAR file which does log SysTemp



I used the CVS version for weeks, if I remember well 3.2.6 was logging 0 for BattTemp.
But my recollection could be wrong
I only used 3.2.6 very shortly

Indeed 3.2.6 did not log Systemp, you are right
it was added after 3.2.6, line 552 on 16th of May:

http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/...MC3000.java?root=dataexplorer&r1=1.10&r2=1.11


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ravel said:


> I used the CVS version for weeks, if I remember well 3.2.6 was logging 0 for BattTemp.
> But my recollection could be wrong
> I only used 3.2.6 very shortly
> 
> Indeed 3.2.6 did not log Systemp, you are right
> it was added after 3.2.6, line 552 on 16th of May


i've been logging with the 16th May build and you are right, the official 3.2.6 does not log BattTemp flawlessly:
3.2.6 vs. 3.2.6-16th
As shown, the latter logs BattTemp and also SysTemp. 
Btw both DEX versions don't log _capacity _(correctly translated into geman as _Ladung_ instead of _Kapazität_, i noticed such translation error in the geman MC3000 instruction manual omg) with the extra decimal which the 1.11 firmware provides at the USB port, crossing fingers to see it in 3.2.7 :thumbsup:

You could try to install the 3.2.6-16th download by overwriting your existing JAR-file but you may also need to delete all contents of
C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Kreisel\Anwendungsdaten\DataExplorer\*.*
first, before starting the modified DEX installation. When DEX starts, it re-creates fresh contents in that location.

I always log with the latest builds, so i was not aware that 3.2.6 did not/not really log BattTemp to our satisfaction. I am on WinXP cheers.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> install the 3.2.6-16th download by overwriting your existing JAR-file


Thank you, Kreisl! This restored DataExplorer temperature logging on my Mac.

Those repeating this, run the following command to delete DataExplorer local settings on Mac OS:
rm -r ~/Library/Application\ Support/DataExplorer


To further document firmware updates, I couldn't make it work on Windows 7 Pro SP1 running under the latest VirtualBox on Mac OS X 10.10.5. It was failing with the above mentioned "start vector err1" message.
Ran flawlessly the first time on an old Vista Home.
Make sure you have a generic Windows system as a backup before attempting update from virtual machine.


----------



## steph996

Hi to all.

looks like you are a real specialist for this charger.

then ibought thi charger. I connect to my computer, USB 3 i think, and have a look on the firmware with MC3000 monitoring.

The systeme found nothing then i stop and disconnect. Put the MC screen goes off. And ths even i have the power connected???

If i disconnect power and use only USB the screen goes on and said low voltage, ok. I connect the power and i can use the charger.

If i disconnect the USB the screen stop.

I do a factory reset and it's the same.

i send the new MC firmware V1.11 it's still the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYPwNk0NYek


If you have any suposition it will be great.
thank you anyway.

very good tread here about this charger, even i don't understand every thing.


regard's steph


----------



## kreisl

steph996 said:


> If i disconnect the USB the screen stop.
> 
> I do a factory reset and it's the same.
> 
> i send the new MC firmware V1.11 it's still the same.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYPwNk0NYek


eh ben, i have never witnessed such strange MC behavior before and i am en vacances and not set to wrap my mind around the observation. of course there has to be a technical explanation for it and after careful examination of circuitry and physical sample some sky engineer would find it. however, if your unit works like that, strange, at any other mains socket and you're sure that the power adapter is working 100% fine, then we could already conclude that your charger has a malfunction. 

the MC got adopted by sky EU distributors from the RC scene, including one covering all BE/FR/LUX regions. i hope that your unit traces back to him (sold by a BE/FR/LUX retailer), then it will be very comfortable for you to go thru the warranty process, all within your country.

I would test your charger on a different systeme , ask a friend or neighbor for help , and also test the power adapter separately bonne chance.


----------



## steph996

Thanks kreisl.

Ok i have made a breaking test on battery then i have to wait.

If i start the MC3000 by himself, is that possible to connect the computer after starting the processus?? it looks like not possible.

When the brekin will be finish i will look the power supple, but when i goes to the data it looks ok.

I have use an USB3, and hope this is not the cause!!!


thanks steph


----------



## steph996

Hi all 

i saw this, this morning.

is that normal this sparkling when i connect the power supply


https://youtu.be/actREJtOWcg


thank you

steph


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

It`s been reported before and is normal for this charger, the recommendation is to connect the dc plug to the charger and then connect the ac and switch on to avoid the sparking.

John.



steph996 said:


> Hi all
> 
> i saw this, this morning.
> 
> is that normal this sparkling when i connect the power supply
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/actREJtOWcg
> 
> 
> thank you
> 
> steph


----------



## Gauss163

Such sparking is to be expected when hot-plugging the DC barrel jack. It is typically caused by the high current inrush when large capacitors charge up. This was discussed at length in earlier posts around here, which includes anti-spark workarounds. Of course you can also avoid it more simply by plugging the DC jack into the device _before _you power on (or plug in) the power supply.


----------



## steph996

Thank a lot, for your comment and your help.

have a Nice day


steph


----------



## samgab

I didn't notice there was a whole extra page with several answers to the question...


----------



## tadatin

Can't find any research or other information about the best charging and storing conditions for NiMH batteries. Now with MC3000 we can control everything, so good to know best practices for maximum lifespan, maximum performance etc. Can anyone help?


----------



## B-2Admirer

I believe I may have shorted the negative sliders 2 and 3 for a moment while calibrating the charger today. The charger was powered, but no cells were in it at that time. I don't think I damaged it and I didn't notice anything wrong with it afterwards, but since I'm not familiar with its schematics, I thought maybe someone who is could banish all my fears


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> shorted the negative sliders 2 and 3 for a moment


Hi, you _shorted _neg slider #2 _with _neg slider #3 ? OMG oo:

The negative sliders are close to GND so nothing of interest happens there whether shorted or not, no worries. :ironic:
Btw the charger does have all sorts of protection, see FAQ's in manual, but sky does not advertise them explicitly in detail and boldly because etc 

Has anybody else got a diy or commercial cover/case to cover up the charger during non-usage?


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> Hi, you _shorted _neg slider #2 _with _neg slider #3 ?


Correct.



kreisl said:


> The negative sliders are close to GND so nothing of interest happens there whether shorted or not, no worries.


Thank you, good to know


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Tadatin,

Welcome to CPF.

Years ago with normal NiMh cells the best way to get the most life was to store them discharged and once every 30 - 90 days (pick a cycle that you can live with) give them a charge/discharge cycle. This seemed to work very well.

Now we have low self discharge NiMh cells. They don't seem to care if they are stored charged, discharged, or in between. About the only caution is to avoid extended trickle charging.

With the low self discharge NiMh cells I think the best approach is to use them and plan on replacing them every 8 - 10 years.

Tom


----------



## steph996

voici un site français avec beaucoup de informatiosome srawing and how to build chargeur or dischargeur.

http://www.ni-cd.net/accusphp/index.php

some of you know how to contact skyrc, i send 3 message to (contact us) but no answer.


i bought my on bangood, they want give me some money back but my charger is uselesss.

And it still not working if i don't connect usb pc link to my computer. That is very strange.

Any hard reset ??? is possible?.

have a good day
steph


----------



## kreisl

steph996 said:


> some of you know how to contact skyrc, i send 3 message to (contact us) but no answer.


i'll ask them when or if they sent you an answer email


----------



## tadatin

SilverFox said:


> Years ago with normal NiMh cells the best way to get the most life was to store them discharged and once every 30 - 90 days (pick a cycle that you can live with) give them a charge/discharge cycle. This seemed to work very well.
> 
> Now we have low self discharge NiMh cells. They don't seem to care if they are stored charged, discharged, or in between. About the only caution is to avoid extended trickle charging.
> 
> With the low self discharge NiMh cells I think the best approach is to use them and plan on replacing them every 8 - 10 years.
> 
> Tom



Thank you.

I have maybe about 15 years old GP NiMH AA cells, rated 2000 mAh, now measured with MC3000 and they still have about 1500 - 1700 mAH.

My friend have four or five years old cells (Energiser, BTY and some no-names), rated about 3000 mAh, but now measured they barely have 1500 mAH. Usage and charge pattern - about the same as mine (flashlights, kids toys, BC-900 charger with default 200 mA settings). Why fifteen years old batteries perform better than five years cells?

And my main question is about the best charging patterns. Charging 0.3C better for maximum lifespan than 1C? Or it is only a myth?


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Tadatin,

Higher capacity cells are usually less robust. That's about the best I can do on your question of why 15 year old cells perform better than 5 year old cells.

As far as charging rates go I think the chargers termination of a charge is more important than the actual charge rate. I charge cells in the 0.5C to 2C charge rate and usually don't run into problems until the charger misses a termination. Once a termination is missed damage is done to the cell and things go down hill from there.

Tom


----------



## Liber8

kreisl said:


> i'll ask them when or if they sent you an answer email



I've also tried to get ahold of them and no response. Tried email and their facebook page. Doesnt exactly inspire confidence.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Why can't voltage be used for termination instead? I had one eneloop missed termination and 4000mAh being put into the cell. The other 3 did terminate like it suppose to. Ever since that event. I started using voltage method instead. What went wrong??


----------



## steph996

kreisl said:


> i'll ask them when or if they sent you an answer email





Hi Kreisl, and thanks.


I have been contacted by them, and i have to said i am happy with there work and assistance they are really professionnal.


I will do a new test for them.


anyway thanks a lot, if we don't find a solution, i will try to send back to the seller. 
I bought it for miniz, but on the track i can't be with charger, computer etc.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Why can't voltage be used for termination instead? I had one eneloop missed termination and 4000mAh being put into the cell. The other 3 did terminate like it suppose to. Ever since that event. I started using voltage method instead. What went wrong??



for what I know, voltage termination can be used only
as backup method, unless a so-called top-off charge
is performed by the charger (together with voltage termination)

I.e. voltage termination (alone) does not guarantee the cells are fully charged.
(cells with same voltage could be filled with different
mah amounts)


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Why can't voltage be used for termination instead? I had one eneloop missed termination and 4000mAh being put into the cell. The other 3 did terminate like it suppose to. Ever since that event. I started using voltage method instead. What went wrong??


It can be.
Just set it to 1.48v or whatever you want.

You can even do a trickle charge for a period of time afterwards, just like a trusty c9000


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i think this will be very good connection to add on the MC3000

lipo, life
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FJ9H5L8/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## kreisl

steph996 said:


> I bought it for miniz, but on the track i can't be with charger, computer etc.


miniz, kyosho, orion, steph, you must be from the rc hobby scene, ben venus in the flashlight world ! :wave:

that's an oem, there is one with fixed bays and one with sliders, i know all about the two, the making folks, and yes both are modeled after the sky chargers. those folks attempted to make a sky-similar universal charger with the goal to offer it cheaper on the market than sky's models. flattering to see that other rc hobby companies felt inspired to develop a similar charger series but imho it's unfortunate that they didn't aim to surpass sky quality. Coke or Pepsi, what's better? :thumbsup:

btw, mc3000 can do life. not lipo because lipo isn't cylindrical.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



steph996 said:


> i think this will be very good connection to add on the MC3000
> 
> lipo, life
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FJ9H5L8/?tag=cpf0b6-20



I have one. Nice charger, however internal slots only
keeps AA & AAA.
So cannot handle Li 18xxx (for example).
It can handle LiPo with specific connectors (I don't remember type sorry).


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ferdinando said:


> I have one. Nice charger,


i had in hands at friends. didn't test it. felt cheap literally.

"Nice", really, you like it?? oo:
Would you like to share some photos of your unit or even open a thread?
Just an idea.
Otherwise, here it would be too off-topic i guess.


----------



## steph996

kreisl said:


> miniz, kyosho, orion, steph, you must be from the rc hobby scene, ben venus in the flashlight world ! :wave:
> 
> that's an oem, there is one with fixed bays and one with sliders, i know all about the two, the making folks, and yes both are modeled after the sky chargers. those folks attempted to make a sky-similar universal charger with the goal to offer it cheaper on the market than sky's models. flattering to see that other rc hobby companies felt inspired to develop a similar charger series but imho it's unfortunate that they didn't aim to surpass sky quality. Coke or Pepsi, what's better? :thumbsup:
> 
> btw, mc3000 can do life. not lipo because lipo isn't cylindrical.



yep i am from rc, but SKY RC product are very popular and very good on rc hobby, i have 3 e6680 charger.

i am in contact with them and even we don't have solution, i will be happy, because they took time to ask me what happen.

But to add the connection for small lipo, will made the MC3000 as the most versatil and hight quality charger


----------



## kreisl

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Thanks fraktl for SN:000908922 added to the list.
> 
> MC3000 with broken posts.
> 
> SN:000908510
> SN:000908347
> SN:000863552
> SN:000908895
> SN:000908922
> 
> Anybody Else?


as i heard, Gearbest has issued 20$ partial refunds to their customers with this warranty case (broken pins). 

some news. looks like GB is offering for ouch 20$ the upper plastic case warranty replacement part as separate purchase (EDIT: logic demands that this SKU has to be a limited offer), so that even owners who bought their mc3k unit from a different seller can also get easy hold of it, for example as spare part. i am sure that sky factory is sorry about the SN's with poor upper plastic case material quality. most important point is, these replacement parts are built with higher quality plastic material and with improved internal construction and have been extra-tested against mechanical and thermal long-term strain. let me know if you really need to view the improved construction, then i'll see what i can pull up for ya np.

I have a few GB credit points left, so i might order the spare part for my (unbroken!) MC3000 Nov'15 early production unit just to learn what kind of good/bad packaging job GB does with this particular SKU.


----------



## Ferdinando

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i had in hands at friends. didn't test it. felt cheap literally.
> 
> "Nice", really, you like it?? oo:
> Would you like to share some photos of your unit or even open a thread?
> Just an idea.
> Otherwise, here it would be too off-topic i guess.



yes Kreisl, with pleasure.
However, just said 'nice', not 'best' or 'better' :laughing:
I have not tested it deep, just charged some NiMh.
When I can, I will open a thread.

Just two images in comparison with MC3K, so I hope to not be too off-topic.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Great photos, thanks for the contribution!! ( in your post, maybe you could add the physical weight of the Orion. iirc the Orion felt really light weight. like feather. hh )

:twothumbs


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I wonder about the chargers i got from hke last year. The rails are still working but i notice slot 3 and 4 makes a strange noise when i move the sliders. Only happens on one of the mc3000. Sounds like the spring got cought on to somthing and clicks. Does this every time. Still holds tension. I'm hoping it does not snap


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Sounds like the spring got cought on to somthing


a spring by itself cannot make any noise. agreed. the spring has two ends; 1 end at the pin, 1 end at the slider. 
you could check with AAA flashlight, shining at the back of the slider, if the spring end scratches on/against/along the rail when you move the slider. you don't need to open the charger for this check. just with a flashlight looking at the spring end, shining from above, comparing all four slots.
or, the spring coil might indeed scratch along some internal edge when you move the slider. ( for this to check, one would need to open the charger )

@MarioJP, logic demands that this SKU has to be a limited offer. Future buyers of the charger won't ever need to buy the spare part, so i expect the case to disappear from GB website later this year.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Going to see when i get home. Also, on slot 2 on the other charger. No clicks or popping sounds but the metal plate that's underneath the bay moves as the slider moves. Feels a bit loose and it won't be long before the plate comes out of it's place. So it seems. But so far, still working. What's holding the plate that the slider rests on?

Thanks.


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ihi I have to said i just open my MC3000 to see if there is a fuse.

but I can said that the for plastic pin where you screw the back of the charger was open. imaen like the screw are to big and make crac in the plastic. one was completly broken i follow in the charger.

maybe to tight on factory on screw to big.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> What's holding the plate


you mean the rail?

in a correctly assembled unit the rail is held in place in the x and y-direction through the upper plastic case and in the z-direction through the lower plastic case, which presses against the rail. even if the pin broke (in the old construction), i wouldn't see how the rail could possibly move around.


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

the small pin on the plate are a little bit to hight for aaa. 

not for you


----------



## GMUGNIER

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So does anyone have an idea of when suppliers will be receiving the updated MC3000 with the new plastic pieces/bits?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



GMUGNIER said:


> So does anyone have an idea of when suppliers will be receiving the updated MC3000 with the new plastic pieces/bits?


june production. we're entering august in 1 week. the revised mc3000 production units were shipped out in june and are already in stock with retailers world wide. some may carry mixed stock by now but i wouldn't be concerned. i do know an EU seller with unmixed stock but i won't name him in public out of fairness towards all other retailers.
you could always inquire about stock details with your preferred dealer.


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Thanks fraktl for SN:000908922 added to the list.
> 
> MC3000 with broken posts.
> 
> SN:000908510
> SN:000908347
> SN:000863552
> SN:000908895
> SN:000908922
> 
> Anybody Else?
> 
> *EDIT: how come the serial number is so high, they only make the MC3000 in batches of 200, are other models of SkyRC charger`s included in this serial number?
> *



You can add mine to the list, SN:008683611


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



light-wolff said:


> You can add mine to the list


oh no, sorry to hear!!

when and from where did you get yours btw?
i hope warranty service of your seller will help, fingers crossed!


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks light-wolff for SN:008683611 added to the list.

MC3000 with broken posts.

SN:000908510
SN:000908347
SN:000863552
SN:000908895
SN:000908922
SN:008683611


----------



## light-wolff

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> when and from where did you get yours btw?


Gearbest, ordered 2014-12-23.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Gearbest you say? thx for info.
i am seeing some light at the horizon, see my earlier post about GB procedure.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks again for all your hard work here kreisl.

Could you give us the serial number from which the June production with all the bits fixed begins? That would not identify any particular seller but would allow us to ask any seller what serial numbers they are selling and so promote getting 'old/potentially defective' units sent back to SkyRC or at least not sold (to us here anyway).




kreisl said:


> june production. we're entering august in 1 week. the revised mc3000 production units were shipped out in june and are already in stock with retailers world wide. some may carry mixed stock by now but i wouldn't be concerned. i do know an EU seller with unmixed stock but i won't name him in public out of fairness towards all other retailers.
> you could always inquire about stock details with your preferred dealer.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks for your work Tinderbox in collecting the numbers.

This is still only a few units so do we have any real idea what this problem(s) is/are? The numbers seem all over the place rather than in a particular batch - mine is 863642 - and seems fine with all sliders so far sliding smoothly and no issues. So do we think we understand what is going on batch wise/failure only after lots of use ..... or?



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Thanks light-wolff for SN:008683611 added to the list.
> 
> MC3000 with broken posts.
> 
> SN:000908510
> SN:000908347
> SN:000863552
> SN:000908895
> SN:000908922
> SN:008683611


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Could you give us the serial number from which the June production with all the bits fixed begins? That would not identify any particular seller but would allow us to ask any seller what serial numbers they are selling





7histology said:


> This is still *only a few units *so do we have any real idea what this problem(s) is/are? The numbers seem all over the place rather than in a particular batch - mine is 863642 - and seems fine with all sliders so far sliding smoothly and no issues.


I really don't have any details or information on serial numbering. The numbers do seem all over the place. Units delivered exfac to seller with firmware 1.10 and 1.11 have the revised (construction, material, new supplier) upper case. As mentioned before sky had ramped up production of this final p-version in june and july because it finally got adopted by some major int distributor. Also sellers know their own history of end consumer mc3k warranty claims, are aware of potential types, and have already worked out solutions and agreements with the manufacturer, for example they stocked a bunch of the revised upper case as potential repair part, so that a sending back to sky wouldn't be necessary. For sure it is not my place to undermine whatever they have mutually worked out, for example i find the dealer's stocking of repair parts totally reasonable. The posted list of serial numbers *isn't very long*, and that's what warranty is for. Btw in may production the pin structure got swathed in industrial hot glue, so those p-units should hold up well as well, no concerns warranted at this point.
Current shoppers won't have that pin breaking problem anymore, they could check the delivered firmware version. That's little consolation for us early adopters (11/2015-05/2016), but no need to be concerned, there still is warranty if needed and in addition to that the GB option, so let's stay positive for the time being thanks.


----------



## liteboy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can someone point out the pros and cons of this charger vs the Opus BT c3100? I am looking for better analytics


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



liteboy said:


> Can someone point out the pros and cons of this charger vs the Opus BT c3100? I am looking for better analytics


here some reading on technical performance, lots of analytics there!







Test/Review of Charger Opus *BT-C3100* V2.1 (current is version 2.2©04/2015) 
 Test/Review of Charger SkyRC *MC3000* (version 1.02 or 1.03 tested; current is version 1.11©06/2016)
 
 
I regularly test smartphone batteries for my old phone. MC3000 logs the analytic graphs directly to LCD, Bluetooth App, and or PC software (PCLS, DEX) with high resolution, see my thread Testing smartphone batteries. I don't believe that BT-C3100 can do dat too


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Oh - I am HIGHLY positive about this charger - love it. Nothing even close to it around, and like HKJ, I have sold all my other chargers and only have an MC3000 now which more than adequately does all my charging.

I just want to make sure that if I buy another one, I get one with the best chance of not having any of the (minor) issues identified here.





kreisl said:


> The posted list of serial numbers *isn't very long*, and that's what warranty is for. Btw in may production the pin structure got swathed in industrial hot glue, so those p-units should hold up well as well, no concerns warranted at this point.
> Current shoppers won't have that pin breaking problem anymore, they could check the delivered firmware version. That's little consolation for us early adopters (11/2015-05/2016), but no need to be concerned, there still is warranty if needed and in addition to that the GB option, so let's stay positive for the time being thanks.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

OFF Topic but great to watch.

*Electricity finding the path of least resistance on a piece of wood*

John.


----------



## GMUGNIER

So has anyone received a charger within the last week or so with the updated cover and pin redesign? If so who has the newer version with the latest firmware in stock?


----------



## kreisl

GMUGNIER said:


> who has the newer version with the latest firmware in stock?


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=4939618&viewfull=1#post4939618


----------



## usrnam

Hello,

Is there ever going to be an upgrade for the PC-Link software? I downloaded the file MC3000_Monitor_V102.rar which I assume is version 1.02?

I'm still unable to the use this program as the main and cell settings window are not re-sizeable. I would like to see the MC3000 become more easy to configure, when recharging a new set of batteries. 

Part of the problem are LCD menus are limited partially because their keypad logic only requires a low bit level programming vs a PC's higher level GUI programming has the potential to become more intuitive and easier to use with a mouse.

To start, all SkyRC really needs to do is make the PC-Link software main and settings windows re-sizeable.

When the PC-Link software is functional, settings can be selected using a mouse.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Now that we have a new version of the manual (v1.10) which has two pages per pdf sheet as usual, can we get a one manual page-per pdf page version like someone did for us before please.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## steph996

kreisl said:


> i'll ask them when or if they sent you an answer email



IKreisl.

I ve been in contact with SKYRC, and i have to said they are very professionnal.

I send my MC3000 back to them, (shipping cost me) but they check it, and find a probleme in my charger.

Then thank a lot for your big help.

I will continue to use SKY RC product.


----------



## kreisl

_- you can click on ~all pics for higher resolution pics
- 5 pics are animated GIF's and work best in Chrome, Internet Explorer, not Firefox; reload in new browser window_
_- for easy back reference you can find this post under *http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-new*_

This post with pics from various dates and sources should be instructive and informative to both present owners including early adopters and prospective buyers and shoppers. The June-production version —the first time that production units were shipped to dealers with 1.11 firmware— marks the final product revision version for a long time to come, so lemme take the opportunity to document the changes since _before _early market release Nov-2015. In particular i'll be comparing *(18) changes* from my engineering sample from that time to today's final mass production version.

*Symbols on buttons*. I continue to prefer my textured buttons with recessed symbols/numbers and luckily i have 1 or 2 sets from prototypes for my own enjoyment and sky ppl prefer them too, which is why the latest sky hobby charger models come with black textured buttons!, but a major distributor now decided for the white labeled buttons for good, in accordance with our cpf poll last year. It's settled then, we're moving on. Textured or labeled? It was mostly a matter of preference anyway, not an essential question.

*Sliders/rails/metal contacts*. On all prototypes and my Nov-unit these three elements did not look super nice, similar to brass and copper flashlights some surface areas looked kinda tarnished (oxidization?). All production units should have the new *(1) shiny silvery coating* on the three elements which makes them also easier to clean. There is also *(2) no more grease/lube* applied on the rails; it was to reduce friction between slider feet and rail but added electrical resistance to the connection and also was not necessary. Check with an AAA flashlight from above if you can see scratch marks/traces on the rails inflicted by the slider feet tips; well, there shouldn't be any. Modders could go ahead and round off the slider feet tips if they feel like it, or apply expensive electrically conductive lubricants like DeoxIT Gold instead. That's it, no further changes [sic].

*BattTemp slot sensors*. Since late spring sky applies *(3) thermal paste* on the tip of the sensors, then clicks the metal stripes into place such that the two elements are connected through a secured thermal path. Not an easy thing to do without creating a mess, try it haha!

_before, without sensors:_


 
_
with sensors and thermal paste yuck:_


 
_
after. not too messy hehe:_


 

*LCD screen*. At some point the charger got a *(4) different LCD screen* make. One can tell from the PCB color from behind, before it was yellow, now it is green: 





The "tint" of the screen differs and maybe things look better now, the contrast or sharpness, but only maybe. That difference in viewing experience is ever so slight that i don't care. I've tried to capture the difference in photo, the left one is the Nov-sample, the right one the Jun-unit. On the pics you can also see the color difference between the two sets of sliders, shiny silvery coating to the right and erh tarnish to the left:

_still image:_




_animated gif, 6 frames:_




*Upper plastic case*. The most important and essential change, and unfortunately not until the June-production, which is why i am posting now! Since you already had a glimpse at the upper case viewed from below, let's check its changes in detail. First of all, sky finally *(5) changed the supplier *of the ABS plastic material after firing the original supplier and testing several others, so we got much *(6) better plastic material quality*. Sky also revised and extended the plastic material testing procedures. This i cannot show in pic, i mean how. Secondly, the CAD engineer designed a *(7) reinforced pin structure* which looks, feels and proves far robuster than the original structural design. Nobody should be ever able again to complain about failing plastic material (breaking pins, crumbling holes):

_bulk comparison:_




_let's get closer:_




_close enough:_




In the above pics the screw plastic posts, the diameter of the posts, are *(8) chunkier screw plastic posts* than in the v1.3 hardware (v1.3 PCB has only Ø5.5mm PCB holes, the v1.5 PCB got Ø6.5mm PCB holes!); so with the new plastic material quality crumbling or material failure of the screw plastic posts won't happen anymore! On a related note, imho they should have gone after metal threaded inserts in the first place. But name me any sub-100$ consumer charger with threaded inserts. Rare as squirrels in winter! Anyway the new upper plastic case is so essential and important that i pointed at it 2 weeks ago with a link to Gearbest who sells the upper plastic case as spare part for a limited period. Okay. Moving on.

*Bottom plastic case*. The bottom case was a hot topic on the forums early on. Originally the ventilation fans were blowing downwards, thus holding the rising internal hot air back inside the charger ouch. The fan had to blow upwards, no discussion! It took time for sky to revise the assembly for the old bottom case which was still in inventory and to approve and produce the *revised bottom case*. What follows is a series of 19 pics from Old and New World, some of which redundant, so let's try to wade through them rather quickly:

After opening the charger, when you can read the fan label, then the fan blows in the correct direction, namely upwards, towards the sky. My Nov-sample had the fan blowing upwards and i was curious to check how the fan was installed in place. Looks lopsided to me. The left bracket clips correctly but something's off with the right side: 




The right bracket does not clip correctly, i see: 




Maybe it is because there is something stuck underneath it, see the corner to the left:




No, it wasn't that. But let's clean the spot, remove the glue residue, and have a good look at the old place which was designed for a downward blowing fan:




An upward blowing fan needs to have 0.7-1.3mm clearance at the back, otherwise the fan rotor eventually scratches along the bottom case and produces extra noise. In the old bottom case we can create clearance by either padding the socket or the fan, you choose:




With the padding the fan would sit higher than the brackets could clip. That's the reason why the fan was installed lopsided. My solution back then was to shave material off the fan edges with a file. However filing is not clean enough a working for our purpose:





Taking material off the edge, chamfering/beveling, has to be done cleaner than these fringed chamfers: 




So i tried chamfering again with this fan sample:





Veery easy job with a utility knife, box cutter: 




A nice close-up of the fan with the filed fringed chamfers, not so good:




And here the resulting installation of the fan with the knife-cut chamfers, pretty good:




The following pictures highlight the changes as seen with the new bottom case. No need for padding or similar because the new base has *(9) integrated spacers* at the four corners of 0.7mm height:




The brackets are *(10) supported at the base* which reduces the risk of breaking brackets when modders replace the fan:




The brackets are *(11) longer*, so that they clip perfectly. No more lopsided installations:




Looking good:




June-production, beautiful:




Of course, this is too made out of the *new plastic material *quality like the new upper plastic case:




And finally the case has an *(12) recessed area* for the label sticker:




Hmm, not bad. Me likey:




*PCB / Electronics*. The electronics did not change since January production. After market release the only electronics change on the PCB was the *(13) addition of FCC/CE/RoHS* certification. The PCB versions and dates are as follows:

2015-07-07 : v1.3 (reviewed by HKJ, also my Nov-sample! screw holes Ø5mm) 
2015-07-07 : v1.4 (electronics unchanged; only change is the diameter of the screw holes, now Ø6.5mm for beefier screw posts) 
2016-01-13 : v1.5 (final version with approved FCC/CE/RoHS certification; SETUP was showing "1.4" in 1.03 firmware, although the PCB is indeed v1.5, you can check; in 1.11 firmware, SETUP shows "1.4+" for both 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5 PCB versions, ask me why lol) 
 



FYI please also read my post #3613 where i wrote more about the versioning topic!!

The *SysTemp cooler sensor* is fixed with thermal *(14) industrial glue* to the cooler. On my custom June-production unit, my cooler has vertical fins for my personal enjoyment and post-testing lol:


 

The charger is and always has been Four-Terminal Sensing-ready, electronics expert can tell:


 

Am not sure if you can see it, the PCB screw holes do have *(15) bigger diameter* than in v1.3 hardware, so there won't be any failing at the screw plastic posts anymore because the plastic posts themselves got chunkier too as mentioned earlier:


 

Original electronic design works great, so no changes here:


 

Last and also least there is more about versions of dis and dad. The physical charger has a PCB version (which is what the SETUP shows as "HW Version:" on the LCD screen), a firmware version (*(16) v1.11 since June-production*, or also downloadable as updater.exe), a Bluetooth module firmware version (oh well ), and a bootloader version installed on the ROM. My Nov-sample has v1.1 bootloader version, which you can see during the v1.11 firmware upgrading process (_animated gif, no looping_):





I don't know when *(17) v1.4 bootloader* version was introduced in the production, sometime earlier this year I guess. It's what my Jun-unit came with (_animated gif, no looping_): 





sky reserves the right to upgrade the bootloader version and the Bluetooth module firmware version without further notice. I am saying this because sky does not provide any details, specifics, or changes concerning these two. We only know, since we can see, that a bootloader version newer than v1.1 is responsible for the blinking SNB's during the firmware upgrading process. Instruction manual was updated to *(18) v1.10 English manual *t/a the new v1.11 firmware devices (full translations into French, geman, Japanese, Chinese exist, from your localized dealer). And the mobile Bluetooth was updated to *v3.0 Android app* version.

Next firmware updates will mostly cover random minor bug fixes which have been reported by end users to the awareness of the maker, and further back and forth support of DEX. sky does fixing of reproducible bugs fast, that's how the firmware version number climbed up from v1.03 and on and on. Hope you guys don't get tired of using the charger and reporting bugs and strong ideas.

In a couple of weeks we'll see an updated DEX version (DataExplorer) with extended mc3k support, i am very looking forward to the new release since i know yes which new functionality will be added. hehe 
:devil:


----------



## romteb

Thx Kreisl for the straightforward and informative post, and Skyrc for allowing you to post that.


----------



## kreisl

Ben mais oui permis thanks back! :wave:

glad that i finished the post before rio starts. 
nuff charging with the batteries, it's time now for some olympiques, beer with tv :buddies:


----------



## LiteTheWay

Thanks again kreisl for all the work.

So if we want to be SURE of getting the latest version with all the changes - who do we order from?


----------



## maukka

Got my second MC3000 from nkon. It's the latest edition with 1.11 firmware (edit: it was 1.10, checked the wrong MC3000, doh). The new screen is much nicer color temp wise, the old one was very blue. Also the charger stays about 10°C cooler when discharging 4 18650s with 1 A. Cannot really tell if it is the fan orientation or the fan speed, because they were both running at the same time.


----------



## Rimlyanin

kreisl said:


> _let's get closer:_


now the springs will not break?


----------



## kreisl

Rimlyanin said:


> now the springs will not break?



( the metal springs never broke. )
and now the plastic pins (posts) will not break anymore. 
never again. (and that was the main point of my long post!)


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Great to see these improvements and fixes.

Bravo SkyRC!


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Agreed. So where do we order from to make sure we get the latest version with all the improvements?



tjh said:


> Great to see these improvements and fixes.
> 
> Bravo SkyRC!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Agreed. So where do we order from to make sure we get the latest version with all the improvements?


google term < _skyrc "1.11" mc3000_ > should work by now


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks kreisl. Ordered (another) one from NKON who openly advertises they are selling versions with FW 1.11. 

I took it from your post (#3552) above that those units now shipping with FW1.11. are the latest (final) production version with ALL the fixes/minor changes mentioned in that excellent post incorporated into them, and in particular, that the units now shipping with FW1.11 have the new and most important upper plastic case on them. This means that the only way to be sure you are getting the latest unit with the new upper plastic case is to make sure you are getting one that ships with FW1.11.

Thanks again for your great work.




kreisl said:


> google term < _skyrc "1.11" mc3000_ > should work by now


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Thanks kreisl. Ordered (another) one from NKON who openly advertises they are selling versions with FW 1.11.
> 
> I took it from your post (#3552) above that those units now shipping with FW1.11. are the latest (final) production version with ALL the fixes/minor changes mentioned in that excellent post incorporated into them, and in particular, that the units now shipping with FW1.11 have the new and most important upper plastic case on them. This means that the only way to be sure you are getting the latest unit with the new upper plastic case is to make sure you are getting one that ships with FW1.11.


ALL changes incorporated = let's call it the 'June-production'.

Yes, it is confirmed info that that dealer has exclusively the June-production in stock, so yours has ALL changes incorporated. 
(…) Just saying, the real question is not which FW version one (not you!) receives from a seller but which FW version was delivered to the seller from the factory. One could *inquire about it* with one's preferred local dealer. Btw, FW1.10 was not a public download, so that would be 100% proof of June-production.

Feel free to share your FW version and serial number :thumbsup:


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My MC3000 from nkon is FW 1.10 and S/N 000978966. In my earlier post I said it was 1.11 but I accidentally checked the older one which I updated myself...


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Btw, one feature I miss from the earlier firmwares is the possibility to accept settings in the Info Message view before the charger returns to the TOV. So I go to the SPV after inserting a cell and choose my settings, long press enter and now I have to wait until the charger has returned from the Using [10] to the PROGRAM[12] view. Before I could press enter right after exiting the programming and it would start the program immediately. Two seconds wasted now unless I set up the Info message to OFF.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Directly starting a program when long-pressing ENTER on any program option in/during SPV, i.e. long-press ENTER in SPV ≡ Save[XX]*&*ReturntoTOVwithnoIMV*&*Start[XX], i can't remember when we had that in the firmware… maybe in 1.02 or even earlier? iirc 1.03 was identical to 1.11 in this regard.
The Info Message View was meant for beginners. Easy guess, proficient:sweat:users like the firmware development team members don't use it, but squirrel me uses it with the 2sec default waiting time and likes it hh.

Is the situation okay now for you with Info Message set to OFF, or would you miss the IMV in other instances?


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeah, I had the 1.02 fw previously. Missed the 1.03 update when it was taken offline and didn't bother. No need for the info message i guess.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

so nobody noticed anything in one of the 6 frames animated gif on the LCD?

:santa:


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Indeed yes, I take your point here kreisl. A dealer other than NKON could update the firmware to v1.11 themselves using the publicly-available download update file. And then one would not know what firmware version came DELIVERED from the factory on the unit - unless one asked and was honestly answered. This matters because it is the DELIVERED (from factory to seller) firmware version, when it is v1.11, which is the only certain indication we have of a June (= latest = ALL changes incorporated) production version.




kreisl said:


> ALL changes incorporated = let's call it the 'June-production'. (…) Just saying, the real question is not which FW version one (not you!) receives from a seller but which FW version was delivered to the seller from the factory. One could *inquire about it* with one's preferred local dealer. Btw, FW1.10 was not a public download, so that would be 100% proof of June-production.
> 
> Feel free to share your FW version and serial number :thumbsup:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

yes you totally got it right :thumbsup:

fw *1.10* and *1.11* delivered _from factory to seller_ are June-production with identical final hardware.


----------



## ilgrank

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I watched it over and over.. what did I miss? 



kreisl said:


> so nobody noticed anything in one of the 6 frames animated gif on the LCD?
> 
> :santa:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Do the 2 LCD's mirror the same contents? 

compare left to right in SETUP :devil:


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Looks like "Hide RAM" is NO on the LHS and YES on RHS. 

From which I take it that charging RAM batteries is off ("HIDE RAM = YES") by default in the latest (= v1.11) Firmware. 

My First production version (bought Dec 2015 which still is fine and has no broken pins etc, BTW) has been updated to FW 1.11 by me and it shows "HIDE RAM = YES" and I can't change that. I seem to recall something about getting a special code from SkyRC to unlock that.





kreisl said:


> Do the 2 LCD's mirror the same contents?
> 
> compare left to right in SETUP :devil:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

very good, correct!

the code is 3 buttons pressing at same time in SETUP.

there are 8 buttons. how many possibilities exist to pick 3 different buttons hhh


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is that code written in the latest manual version 1.10 somewhere? I admit I have not read the latest version page-by-page!




kreisl said:


> very good, correct!
> 
> the code is 3 buttons pressing at same time in SETUP.
> 
> there are 8 buttons. how many possibilities exist to pick 3 different buttons hhh


----------



## kreisl

not written in manual because it's secret 

but if people find out, they can share on forums np 

only works from v1.10 on


----------



## LiteTheWay

Ah yes - WHICH three buttons in Setup?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Time to start pressing buttons.


----------



## Ovi_73

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Any one now if the SkyRC MC3000 charger on HB is real or fake?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...C3000_Charger_with_AU_plug_AU_Warehouse_.html


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ovi_73 said:


> Any one now if the SkyRC MC3000 charger on HB is real or fake?
> 
> http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...C3000_Charger_with_AU_plug_AU_Warehouse_.html


Don't think there's been any reports of fakes, so I'd guess that it's legit.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

the HB is legit.
it's got additional AU certification or something, and is mostly targeted at AU market

yes time to press buttons. 2 from the lower row plus 1 from the upper row. then check if it's unlocked.

more i wan't say


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

*To Enable RAM:


*Hold down "Down, Enter and 4"

Tada. You can enable RAM.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes but it does not seem to always work - for me anyway.

Also, it looks like "Down + Enter + any one of the numbers 1 to 4" works just as well too. But again not always. It Seems I need to have two or three goes at it and also to get out of Setup between different goes at Enabling RAM. ?????





tjh said:


> *To Enable RAM: *Hold down "Down, Enter and 4" Tada. You can enable RAM.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Yes but it does not seem to always work - for me anyway.
> 
> Also, it looks like "Down + Enter + any one of the numbers 1 to 4" works just as well too. But again not always. It Seems I need to have two or three goes at it and also to get out of Setup between different goes at Enabling RAM. ?????


I got it to work on the first try. Be sure that you go to setup first and do the 3 combo press and enable RAM. Press and hold down enter and 4 exactly in that order.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Aha - I was assuming the three buttons have to be held down SIMULTANEOUSLY from something kreisl wrote above. But if there also has to be a SEQUENCE in which they are held down as you suggest, the correct sequence in addition to the numbers themselves, may be part of the unlocking code !? ..... I will experiment more tonight when I get home.




MarioJP said:


> I got it to work on the first try. Be sure that you go to setup first and do the 3 combo press and enable RAM. Press and hold down enter and 4 exactly in that order.


----------



## terjee

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Aha - I was assuming the three buttons have to be held down SIMULTANEOUSLY from something kreisl wrote above. But if there also has to be a SEQUENCE in which they are held down as you suggest, the correct sequence in addition to the numbers themselves, may be part of the unlocking code !? ..... I will experiment more tonight when I get home.



As I understand it, Skyrc doesn't mind people using the charger for actual RAM-batteries. They were never a great success though, so relatively few people actually have them. My guess is that they're just worried about safety, if people try charging "normal" alkaline cells. They've also stated that they don't mind sending you the code, if you mail them with proof of purchase of RAM-batteries.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Why even include RAM program in the first place? You can't even buy RAM batteries from Amazon.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

To be as UNIVERSAL as possible - even if hardly anyone wants to use it. You can get RAM batteries elsewhere albeit not from Amazon.



MarioJP said:


> Why even include RAM program in the first place? You can't even buy RAM batteries from Amazon.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I did wish for NiZn to succeed. That chemistry had potential and could of replaced NiMh and is much safer than Li-ion. Now that this charger supports it. Too late now.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My unit is Firmware 1.02 and Hardware 1.04, bought in december, no updates.
As expected I couldn't lock up the hidden RAM feature, but I tried anyway.
But something other strange thing happened.

When pressing and holding ”down”, ”Enter” and ”1” at the same time in set-up mode. The screen shows 2 upstanding rectangular with two squares in the left rectangular. The upper square is empty, while the lower says: by ZXP

In the right rectangular there are 3 squares, The upper Shows:
Score
00000

The middle square shows:
Level
01

And the lowest square shows: 
Lines
000

When pressing and holding ”down”, ”Enter” and ”2” at the same time (also in set-up mode). There is a dot and a bar in the left area of the screen, the latter is moving from left to right.

When pressing and holding ”down”, ”Enter” and ”3” at the same time in set-up mode. The below apear on the screen, and start counting down.

Level:1
00:03:20
Steps:000

It looks like an easter egg, a game of some sort.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Viking said:


> My unit is Firmware 1.02



sounds like debugging mode or something

you must update, then that weird screen view will be fixed/gone, it was listed under (k#51)


----------



## terjee

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Viking said:


> My unit is Firmware 1.02 and Hardware 1.04, bought in december, no updates.



I'd highly recommend that you upgrade the firmware, due to critical bugs:



Skyrc said:


> Since the V1.03 several new functions were added and many bugs including critical ones were fixed.



New firmware can be downloaded here: http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=news/content&news_id=188


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'm not so sure it's a bug.
The word "score" "level 01" and a bar moving sounds a lot like a game.
But I was a chicken and pulled the plug ;-)


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

okay maybe it is a game but then only for internal practice coding or whatnot, nothing sanctioned by sky official, sorry


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Tried to push some buttons while in the 3 modes, and there are little doubt they are games alright.
The first game is tetris of some sort.

The second game I can't figure out, but you can move the bar and dot pushing the keys.
In the third game, I now see there is a man inside som boxes at the left side of the screen you can move around by pushing the keys, I haven't figured the game out yet.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I found the RAM program being useful after all. The Termination voltage and current can be handy for Eneloops, eliminating the top-off trickle charge. Doing tests of how this program treats Eneloops. So far it's showing potential to fine tune of charging NiMH cells. if this pans out. I'll use this mode instead of Eneloop or NiMh lol.

Why there's no termination current for Eneloop and NiMh? That's the only difference in RAM, that it has Termination current.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

afaik the implemented RAM algorithm uses "pulsed" CC-CV for charging, someting like dad.

Eneloop algorithm uses MH-C9000 method in Dummy UI Mode and "constant current" charging with Delta Peak (-dV) method in the other two UI modes. No termination current involved during charging.

You can turn off Top-off charge aka Trickle charge as you know.

sorry for the air quotes. hah


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Oh, but that's only in dummy mode correct?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

yes, only in Dummy mode.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I didn't know that. Thanks lol.


----------



## ediaz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi anybody know how I can enable charge the litio with a low volt? like a litio battery with 1.5V of charge?.

Regards!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



maukka said:


> My MC3000 from nkon is FW 1.10 and S/N 000978966. In my earlier post I said it was 1.11 but I accidentally checked the older one which I updated myself...



does your new unit have recessed label sticker on bottom case?


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> does your new unit have recessed label sticker on bottom case?



Yes.


----------



## Ovi_73

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It's a game, after upgrade to the new firmware you can use these buttons to activa the RAM option!


----------



## Ovi_73

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Why even include RAM program in the first place? You can't even buy RAM batteries from Amazon.


You can vind RAM cells on eBay and on a Spain reseller site


----------



## Ovi_73

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

http://www.ebay.de/itm/4x-Pure-Ener...plastic-box-/251323614368?hash=item3a840e04a0


----------



## Ovi_73

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B006N7YSMA/


----------



## teacher

TinderBox (UK) said:


> OFF Topic but great to watch.
> 
> *Electricity finding the path of least resistance on a piece of wood*
> 
> John.


_*Sweet!!! *_:thumbsup: ... 
_*That is kinda how my brain feels after a time of reading through this thread trying to figure out this charger...*_.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So far RAM mode seems to be no problem charging eneloops. No need for top off charge. Is there any negatives of using RAM for the wrong chemistry that i am not of aware of?


----------



## kappa7

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> So far RAM mode seems to be no problem charging eneloops. No need for top off charge. Is there any negatives of using RAM for the wrong chemistry that i am not of aware of?


Why do you want to use RAM algorithm for nihm cells?
The standard nihm algorithm with the -dv/dt termination works well without needing any top off charge.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kappa7 said:


> Why do you want to use RAM algorithm for nihm cells?
> The standard nihm algorithm with the -dv/dt termination works well without needing any top off charge.


I like the termination current setting and i did had one cell that missed termination one time, even at 3mv delta peak. Charge rate at 600mA too.


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi 

after contact with skyrc, they found probleme with my MC3000.

Then i'am not home but they send me a new one from they're office.*
i will give you the version number and some picture.

it should be on the last version of MC 3000.

Big thanks to Kreisl for the help and to SKYRC for a very nice contact. 
The cost tpo skyrc cost me around 35 euros, but was very happy to help them.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

merci steph for letting us know, appreciated!

yes, your sending back of the funnily behaving unit has helped them to find out the origin. as i heard yours was the first and only report of this kind, so they were curious.



steph996 said:


> it should be on the last version of MC 3000.


Regarding versions and revisions, stating again for clarification fyi:


The _electronics hardware_ version i.e. the PCB version, is unchanged since January'16 and _is_ v1.5 since. This version number _is_ printed on the PCB and one cannot know it for sure unless one disassembles the charger and looks at the PCB. v1.3 was sold only by HKE and Gearbest, in IV/2015, and are long long sold out. 
What the firmware displays in GSV (SETUP) as "HW Version: " is kinda bogus. Fact is, the current firmware topology has no way of knowing which number is printed on the PCB or which _electronics hardware_ version the charger is built with. In _the author_'s thinking the displayed "HW Version" is to refer to the _electronics hardware_ version. However, to be blunt, no matter if 'your hardware' (= _in this context, i mean the electronics hardware, the PCB, of course, but it doesn't matter, just read ahead!_) is v1.3, v1.4, or v1.5, the FW1.11 will always display "HW Version: 1.4+" because that line is hardcoded. Since this implementation (wtf was _the author_? ) has lead to some confusion, the next firmware version will probably display something hardcoded like "HW Version: ≥1.3", which will be true for both owners of v1.3 PCB and v1.5 PCB. Clever enough, fair enough. Btw to date, i haven't seen any photo, proof, or claim that v1.4 PCB was ever produced or released. The sole difference between v1.3 and v1.4 is that the latter has bigger diameter holes for the 6 (now) chunkier more robust plastic screw posts. The sole difference between v1.4 and v1.5 is the addition of FCC/CE/RoHS certification. 
Now we can move on and talk about the let's call it the _build quality_ version. Current shoppers who want the final build quality version, which i had correctly dubbed 'the _June production_ version' before, should look for exactly that and _not _be confused about the "1.4+" which the FW1.10 and FW1.11 display on the LCD as 'hardware version'. As i've just explained, the "1.4+" is bogus because it is hardcoded; rest assured that your electronics hardware_ is _v1.5, since January already! Question: How identify the June production, if you don't want to open the charger? Answer: If the LCD displays "FW Version: 1.10", then it is the June production for sure! If the firmware is v1.03, then it is the older build quality. If the firmware shows as v1.11, then the charger could originate from the June production or the seller could have updated to FW1.11 manually/personally. The recessed label sticker could(!) be another way of identification; all June production units have it, but it's a sound guess that they started producing the recessed label stickers a bit earlier. And sky serial numbering seems all over the place, bets off. 
FW1.10 was never released as download. The difference between FW1.10 and 1.11 is the GSV item "Language: ". In FW1.10 you can select different languages but not save the selection. In FW1.11 the selection English is hardcoded. In the middle of the June production the line changed to the FW1.11 on an ad hoc basis. So sky has now FW1.10 and 1.11 in stock, but both with the identical _electronics hardware_ (namely v1.5) and with the identical _build quality_, namely the _June production_. In future, user will be able to save another language selection, say geman, french, espanish, chinois, etc. 
 
On another note, these days i am testing the beta version of the upcoming DEX update. MC3000 support in DEX has been expanded, now users can save the 30 programs to disk and rename them freely within the XXchars limitation ("Backup" functionality). "Restore" functionality works too, per slot; the settings (program options&parameters) of a chosen slot are temporarily overwritten, in a similar way as the Bluetooth App and PCLS do it. DEX/PCLS/APP overwrite "the 4 slots", not "the 30 memories" . Also new, DEX can now display the CAPACITY with 1 decimal, i love it (1234.7mAh instead of 1235mAh); it was implemented in FW1.11, and PCLS 1.02 shows it already. Usain against Gatlin tonight. :huh:


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks kreisl so much for your continued information on the MC3000!


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I kreisl.


When i said it should be last version, i was speaking about this one i will receive.




But i am not at home, and i have to wait 1 week.


I am thinking to use the small tube where you put 4 aaa battery for paralléle charge.


Do you think the charger will be able to charge 4 tubes like this at 3 amps ??? without over heating??


We are five for miniz and use around 20 aaa battery on the track, then was i was thinking to optimise batterry charging with parralele charging.




what do you think about it.


I also order NC 26000


----------



## taxtax

I ordered my MC-3000, at 15 Jun 2016 from Gearbest
It came with a sticker "May 23rd, 2016" (I suppose is from Gearbest and shows the date that had deliver it and store it)
Firmware: 1.03
Serial Number: 000978871 (only 95 units older than @maukka's unit) 
My unit have recessed label sticker.

According to @kreisl, I lost the new quality case, only for a few units.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> If the firmware shows as v1.11, then the charger could originate from the June production or the seller could have updated to FW1.11 manually/personally. The recessed label sticker could(!) be another way of identification; all June production units have it, but it's a sound guess that they started producing the recessed label stickers a bit earlier. And sky serial numbering seems all over the place, bets off.



But as you said earlier, that dealer NKON has exclusively "June Production"


----------



## terjee

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> But as you said earlier, that dealer NKON has exclusively "June Production"



I snatched their last, before they got a new batch in mid July, so this seems very likely. It was also V1.04 IIRC, so I don't think NKON usually upgrades firmware before shipping. The V1.11 is indeed also a likely sign that it's a recent batch.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



taxtax said:


> According to @kreisl, I lost the new quality case, only for a few units.






7histology said:


> But as you said earlier, that dealer NKON has exclusively "June Production"



yes that's true.

and now they have run out of stock gg.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> yes that's true. and now they have run out of stock gg.



Hi kreisl

Interestingly, my new MC3000 which arrived today from NKON, has FW 1.1O even though the FKON website I ordered from advertised their stock as having FW 1.11.

Naturally, I am very happy about this because as kreisl has said earlier in this thread, the only way (at present anyway) to be ABSOLUTELY sure that you have the highly desireable 'June Production' which has the new upper plastic case etc, is to get a unit that comes with FW1.10 because FW1.10 was never publicly released. The point being that even if you get a unit with the later FW1.11, it COULD be that units with FW1.11 came with an earlier (non June Production) FW version which was updated to 1.11 (by the seller) using the publicly available file.

Mine does have the recessed region on the back for the Label and is SN 978951.

Thanks again for all the info kreisl - and Sky RC for listening to us and fixing issues.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Interestingly, my new MC3000 which arrived today from NKON, has FW 1.1O even though the FKON website I ordered from advertised their stock as having FW 1.11.


their page writing "Firmware 1.11" is merely to mean that they have the very latest production, namely the June production (with exfac installed FW1.10 or with exfac installed FW1.11), in stock. technically it is not very correct if one gets a device with FW1.10 after that product pseudo-description. reasoning, maybe they didn't like to write something more informative like "_latest production in stock, on forums the so-called 'June production', and as you know from folums it can come with FW1.10 or with FW1.11, in any case we guarantee that we have exclusively the "highly desireable" 'June production' in stock from now on, guaranteed, so plz don't surf away but buy only from us!_" lol 

:laughing:


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Indeed yes - they don't need an essay



kreisl said:


> their page writing "Firmware 1.11" is merely to mean that they have the very latest production, namely the June production (with exfac installed FW1.10 or with exfac installed FW1.11), in stock. technically it is not very correct if one gets a device with FW1.10 after that product pseudo-description. reasoning, maybe they didn't like to write something more informative like "_latest production in stock, on forums the so-called 'June production', and as you know from folums it can come with FW1.10 or with FW1.11, in any case we guarantee that we have exclusively the "highly desireable" 'June production' in stock from now on, guaranteed, so plz don't surf away but buy only from us!_" lol :laughing:


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

deleted post - error


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

hi my charger is N°001067917.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> The difference between FW1.10 and 1.11 is the GSV item "Language: ". In FW1.10 you can select different languages but not save the selection. In FW1.11 the selection English is hardcoded.



Hi kreisl

Isn't this the OTHER way around: namely FW1.10 has English hardcoded and in FW1.11 you can select but not save different languages?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi, i am not totally sure, i wrote it off the top of my head. In your firmware version, did you check the SETUP ?

(…)

Here's a glimpse of the Backup/Restore windows dialog in DEX, a totally new item in the next DEX version update:







i'll leave it to your imagination how to operate this dialog, what the function of the buttons are, etc.
But basically the functionality is this: you can manually enter&save 30 different programs on the charger, DEX can retrieve the 30 programs (max. 4 at a time), and the user can assign new (or the same) program numbers to them and also rename them (with a ??chars limitation, of course). The programs are automatically saved in coded format with checksum on the HDD in an *.XML-file (it's always the same file, and you could share it with your fliend!). Whenever you launch DEX, it loads the XML-file automatically and you have direct access to the 30 programs, by way of a drop-down menu. If you want to visually see the full program settings, DEX lets you paste them in a *.TXT-file. So you can create your own library of hundreds of programs in form of your own edited *.TXT-file and print it out for your records. And if you want to run a saved program (temporarily), you can just do so; the 30 saved programs in the charger's memory will remain untouched. And if you want to replace/overwrite a program number in the charger's memory, then you would have to do so manually .. with the help of your *.TXT-file.

I've been looking forward to this functionality for a long time, and i know that i am not the only one :huh:


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Hi, i am not totally sure, i wrote it off the top of my head. In your firmware version, did you check the SETUP ?



In my FW1.10 (on my new MC3000 bought this month) there in NO GSV item "Language" so there is nothing to change.
In my FW1.11 (which I upgraded to 1.11 myself on an MC3000 I bought in Dec 2015) there is a GSV item "Language" which has "English" against it - but it is unchangeable.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sorry for late replies, am catching up now.



7histology said:


> In my FW1.10 (on my new MC3000 bought this month) there in NO GSV item "Language" so there is nothing to change.


dang looks like i didn't remember correctly what the difference between 1.10 and 1.11 was. i was totally sure that it was the Language option. Or maybe it was (k#51), i really don't know anymore. my head is spinning. (what happens when you press DOWN+ENTER+SNB#3 in GSV?)


Swede74 said:


> The update was successful, but where is the game?





Dutchman01 said:


> BTW, someone knows what is the sequence to the hidden LCD Game?


 :devil:


7histology said:


> Now that we have a new version of the manual (v1.10) which has two pages per pdf sheet as usual, can we get a one manual page-per pdf page version like someone did for us before please.


i can't help with that, sorry. i asked back then, and instead there is now a watermark on every double page :duh2:


ediaz said:


> Hi anybody know how I can enable charge the litio with a low volt? like a litio battery with 1.5V of charge?.


i wouldn't know. it would not be safe to misuse a different BATT TYPE for the charging, even if you found a workaround with the help of the BATTERY VOLTAGES table on page m11 of the manual.


usrnam said:


> I'm still unable to the use this program as the main and cell settings window are not re-sizeable. I would like to see the MC3000 become more easy to configure, when recharging a new set of batteries.


With DEX 3.2.7 you can save/backup and restore programs which you entered manually on the charger. You can also see all program settings in TXT format and save the programs under a freely chosen name. That's a start to make configuration easier. It's true that PCLS and the Bluetooth App can change parameters of a program ('Control') but … . I don't see a revised version of PCLS coming very soon, whereas there is regular active development of extended mc3k support in dex.


sns said:


> upd. Nope. DEX freezes as well... No USB data after some time. Restarting it helps sometimes, but not often...


sorry, can't reproduce. I have no such problems with DEX. PCLS? What's dad? 


Liber8 said:


> I've also tried to get ahold of them and no response. Tried email and their facebook page. Doesnt exactly inspire confidence.


In general all end consumer emails do get answered afaik. You can check your spam folder or maybe try sending same email again?


MarioJP said:


> Why can't voltage be used for termination instead? I had one eneloop missed termination and 4000mAh being put into the cell. The other 3 did terminate like it suppose to. Ever since that event. I started using voltage method instead. What went wrong??


The manual recommends DELTA PEAK:0dV for most batteries, could you try and let us know? Even with my old nimh batteries i haven't experienced any missed terminations yet with this interesting setting. You could also set the capacity cut: for an Eneloop Std AA, one could enter 2200mAh. Not sure what went wrong with your one eneloop. In Dummy Mode, there can't be missed terminations because it uses a combination of voltage cut, top-charge charge, and trickle charge as seen on MH-C9000. As we know, MH-C9000 does not use -dV or -dV/dt method for termination. Hope this helps.


morcegolas said:


> Hi guys, I've got some IMR 18350 900MAH 3.7V. Witch Termination should I use? *Zero ?*


For 'simply charging' a 900mAh nominal battery you could choose 0.09A (=0.1C) or 0.05A (=50mA). Zero is for producing ~stable 4.200V battery offline voltage, and it may actually be harmful to battery health. And Zero takes forever to finish.


MarioJP said:


> 1. In Eneloop mode. What's so special about this mode compared to Ni-MH? Is it a predefined capacity based on which version of Eneloop is selected? 2.I noticed when charging cells. The readings on the charger is not as real-time as i thought to believe. In other words, when i select a slot number. In SOV, the average voltage readings seems to be in real-time than the readings in TOV. Any explanation about this? 3. In trickle charge. every couple of seconds or so the current mA value will go from where is it and drop to 0 and return to that value and repeats. Just curious why it does that.


1. Yes, predefined capacities (nominal capacity, capacity-cut) and optimal parameter defaults chosen by sky. Nothing so special. It's mostly for convenience and ease of use.
2. In TOV the readings are real-time, for the display rounded to 2 decimals. In SOV, the average voltage has 3 decimals. The 1 decimal higher displayed resolution makes the reading look more lively, more real-time.
3. It imitates trickling, dribbling  Nah it's mostly for measuring the NiMH offline voltage. Ah here we go, that voltage is not measured in real-time, true. During charge it is measured every 15s or so. For NiMH charging and termination, the offline voltage is more relevant than the online voltage.


Ravel said:


> Here is a FW improvement request to be seconded please (or questionnned/challenged).
> AFAIK not yet discussed.
> Lets call it OnCapacityNextJump


Thanks for the very detailed suggestion, i noted it down in de list. If this exact or a similar feature ever made it to production, it wouldn't materialize until late and i wouldn't wait for it or for any other suggested change in SPV. In contrast, strong suggestions for changes in GSV can be implemented much faster.


DeJaVu said:


> And while were at it , same thing goes for the reduced current if battery is below 3.2v as far as i recall, thats also a bad limitation for vapers as some mods discharge 2.5-2.8V(under load), so unnneceserily it takes a long time to get things going to full speed.





light-wolff said:


> I second that. Full charge current should be applied at least from 3.0V onwards, not 3.2V.
> It takes forever on a discharged high-current ("IMR") 26650 to reach 3.2V and finally go to full charging current.


I am submitting suggestion for voltage threshold for soft charging, see (k#66), good idea thanks! The clever/elegant workaround with BATT TYPE LiFe for fast-charging overdischarged 26650's still stands, though. [01] LiFe w/ TERMINATION:OFF, then switch to [02] LiIon w/ regular CCCV charging.


ilgrank said:


> And yes, one of the most annoying things I ever seen
> I've found the menu to disable the screensaver tho.. it would be nice to just disable the screensaver SOUND instead of disabling the screensaver altogether.


When KEY BEEP is OFF, then the screensaver sound is off too. To me, it's like avant-garde piano music, i can enjoy the random beeps or tinkling. :huh:


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi on my charger maube the more new one because as be sent by skyrc directly, i can't change language.

For bluetooth application, for NC2600 there is 2 application on playstore. Because this one from skyrc did not give you graph and green graph.

look for

Hitec smart charger 
hitec smart charger 2.


on my NC2600 i miss Delts peak in refresh mode, battery was so hot can not put the finger.
I don't understand why the temp sensor didn't stop charger.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is it OK to use the regime in "Dummy Charge" for RCR2 (3.2V nominal) and LiFePo4 (also 3.2V nominal) charging?


----------



## eutha

Hello guys, i saw this: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=4802068&viewfull=1#post4802068

Does anybody know the weight of THIS (the version with EMI filter) power supply?

Thank you very much


----------



## kreisl

eutha said:


> Does anybody know the weight of THIS (the version with EMI filter) power supply?



i am not aware of versions. i have 2 adapters, 1 received last year (no serial number), 1 received this year (with serial number). there's maybe a 1g difference between the 2, and i have no problems with either:


























bye.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Btw to date, i haven't seen any photo, proof, or claim that v1.4 PCB was ever produced or released. The sole difference between v1.3 and v1.4 is that the latter has bigger diameter holes for the 6 (now) chunkier more robust plastic screw posts. The sole difference between v1.4 and v1.5 is the addition of FCC/CE/RoHS certification.
> Now we can move on and talk about the let's call it the _build quality_ version. Current shoppers who want the final build quality version, which i had correctly dubbed 'the _June production_ version' before, should look for exactly that and _not _be confused about the "1.4+" which the FW1.10 and FW1.11 display on the LCD as 'hardware version'. As i've just explained, the "1.4+" is bogus because it is hardcoded; rest assured that your electronics hardware_ is _v1.5, since January already! Question: How identify the June production, if you don't want to open the charger? Answer: If the LCD displays "FW Version: 1.10", then it is the June production for sure! If the firmware is v1.03, then it is the older build quality. If the firmware shows as v1.11, then the charger could originate from the June production or the seller could have updated to FW1.11 manually/personally. The recessed label sticker could(!) be another way of identification; all June production units have it, but it's a sound guess that they started producing the recessed label stickers a bit earlier. And sky serial numbering seems all over the place, bets off.
> :huh:



I ordered a MC3000 from Everbuying.net with expedited shipping and a 20 percent discount because of a Chinese Holiday. However after placing the order an e-mail was sent stating it was being delivered using regular shipping (without tracking) instead of expedited shipping because another order item didn't qualify for expedited shipping. After more than a couple of months had gone by the MC3000 hadn't arrived so I e-mailed them again and they came up with some sort of tracking number that showed the package was stuck somewhere in the US. After waiting another couple of weeks I eventually became tired of the whole thing and sent an e-mail directly to Everybuying using an email address unrelated to their ticket support. Stating I'm tired of waiting and the order was past due 2+ months for regular delivery and wanted a full refund. I also put in a complaint with Pay Pal that was used to pay for the MC3000. A couple of days later received a full refund.

I know the package was stuck in US Customs for at least two weeks. Other items I have ordered from GearBest haven't normally been delayed at US Customs. ( Gearbest and Everbuying I believe are part of the same company)

I ended up ordering from Progressive RC in Seattle, Washington. The charger was delivered within 2 to 3 days with free shipping.

The charger has the FCC ID: REY-MC3000, CE, FC and RoHS. A while back I opened it up to grease the slides, but am unable to remember the PCB version. I updated to the latest firmware which if I recall correctly was from version 1.3? Perhaps I'm mistaken about the original firmware version.

Since mine has the FCC ID, CE, FC and RoHS does this mean my PCB version is 1.5?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Albert_ said:


> Since mine has the FCC ID, CE, FC and RoHS does this mean my PCB version is 1.5?



yes yes :kiss:


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

hi kreisl

Is it OK to use the regime in "Dummy Charge" to charge RCR2 (3.2V nominal) and LiFePo4 (also 3.2V nominal) batteries? I mean of course by dropping the charging rate in "Dummy" to 200mA - not the default 700mA.

It 'seems' to work OK - termination OK anyway and while the nominal full charge of 3.6/7 is often higher than that after charging, it drops down to 3.6 or lower quickly. With RCR2/15270 you have to use a spacer of course but that seems to work fine.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Is it OK to use the regime


regime .. good word  

As with other smart chargers (Nietcore D4, Opus, Xstar) there has to be a manual setting, or switch, which helps the charger understand what an inserted "3.407V"-battery means: is it an almost full LiFePO4, or is it an almost depleted LiIon4.35? To my understanding, realistically, in a charger there is no other means of differentiating Lithium batteries than by voltage level. That makes those chargers not very 'smart' imo. So in all modesty sky calls this bi-chem mode the 'dummy' mode.

In FW1.11 (firmware v1.11), the bi-chem mode can distinguish safely only between LiIon (3.6V 3.7V nominal) and NiMH/NiCd/Eneloop (1.2V nominal), and it says so in the manual. I would not try to charge LiFePO4 (3.2V nominal) with the Dummy UI Mode. The LiIon target voltage in Dummy mode is 4.20V afaik. That's too high for LiFePO4, isn't it? So the answer is, no, it is NOT OK.

In future firmware updates i'd like to see a setting in GSV which lets the user switch between different, two or four, bi-chem pairings (k#69). I am confident that this feature will come but probably not already in the v1.12 incremental update.

In the meantime, you could program one of the 4 memory keys in GSV to hold the perfect LiFePO4 program for you. Pressing <UP+SNB#1> simultaneously can be a challenge, hitting the 2 keys single-handedly with wrist staccato technique helps. 
again piano. lol.


----------



## olemil

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> yes yes :kiss:



Does this also mean that version of charger (*with this:* FCC ID: REY-MC3000, CE, FC and RoHS) has the newest/improved case also? I know Progressive has had their stock since spring _(unless this is a new batch they just got)_ and wanted to make sure to get the post June model. Thank You!!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



olemil said:


> Does this also mean that version of charger (*with this:* FCC ID: REY-MC3000, CE, FC and RoHS) has the newest/improved case also?


that sticker is more of an indicator of the PCB, namely 1.5 design version, and not of the production month. very much all units stocked by dealers this year have PCB v1.5 and that sticker. sorry i wouldn't know about Progressive's stock but i do recommend buying from such a local/national dealer anyway. if you ever were unhappy with their sold products for some reason or had a warranty claim, they would most definitely take care of you the best way possible, rest assured. customer service is their forte. you could inquire, also about their stock of spare parts.

Good luck!! :rock:


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Question about the app I can't find covered: Does it work on the iPad? (I'd think so), and does it support landscape mode?

Is this charger worth it if what you want is basically a Maha C9000 with a remote display on a phone?

Maybe requires a PM (if you'd be so kind), I forget exact board rules, Illumn vs ProgressiveRC, any reason to pick one vs the other?


----------



## kreisl

hi radellaf, i will sit this one out, because 1) i have no ipad 2) i have maha charger 9000 but am too bia***ed 3) :thinking:
maybe someone else could chime in

also, electronic specialist Hongkong-based Fasttech.com finally approved of the quality too and adopted the product, it's been listed in their catalog since today


----------



## olemil

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> that sticker is more of an indicator of the PCB, namely 1.5 design version, and not of the production month. very much all units stocked by dealers this year have PCB v1.5 and that sticker. sorry i wouldn't know about Progressive's stock but i do recommend buying from such a local/national dealer anyway. if you ever were unhappy with their sold products for some reason or had a warranty claim, they would most definitely take care of you the best way possible, rest assured. customer service is their forte. you could inquire, also about their stock of spare parts.
> 
> Good luck!! :rock:



Thank you for the info, much appreciated!! Yes you are right about Progressive RC, I have only heard great things about them and their customer service. I've bought a lot of RC items from them including several hundred $$$$ worth of RC chargers and power supplies, top notch service. Thanks again. :twothumbs


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> Question about the app I can't find covered: Does it work on the iPad? (I'd think so), and does it support landscape mode?
> 
> Is this charger worth it if what you want is basically a Maha C9000 with a remote display on a phone?
> 
> Maybe requires a PM (if you'd be so kind), I forget exact board rules, Illumn vs ProgressiveRC, any reason to pick one vs the other?


A C9000 with a remote display would not be as good as this charger, but it's not clear why you want a C9000 with a remote display.
1. Because you like pushing buttons?
2. You heard it was a good charger?
3. You want an Analyzer and a Charger and you heard the C9000 does that?
3. You already have a C9000 and you really like it?
4. You've read so much about the C9000 and all it's quirks you don't want to have to spend time learning another charger?

I should tell you I don't own this charger, I have a similar model NC2500 that has some similarities (as well as a C9000). Mostly the NC2500is similar in that it is made from the same company, and also uses a Smartphone App. To tell you the truth I have not used it for a while, it's easier to use other chargers. The App would disconnect too often and not re-pair most of the time without a lot of button pushes. The interface had some quirks as well, but some parts of the phone app were cool, but I have a low tolerance these days for buggy software so it didn't really last long. I didn't even load the App on my current phone. I probably will one day and update the firmware and see how it is working now.

So one good thing in all that is this charger has updatable firmware... that's a really nice feature. If you read the review of this charger on here you'll find out some other good features as well. If you learn it's so called 'advanced mode' then you should be able to make it more powerful and much simpler than the C9000.

If you do get the app working the logging capability of this charger should be beautiful. Of course all this costs a pretty penny and you know the paint is not that dry on it yet.

So C9000 with a remote display.... NO. A very nice charger with loads of capability and control .... with a remote App Connection.... *YES*

It's not really the Bentley or Rolls of chargers, but it's not the VW Microbus or Triumph TR6 either. It's sort of like the Lexus... it may need some time in the shop, but you get to drive it enough to love it.

_ps... there is some serious stuff in here... but mostly not... as I don't own it._


----------



## maukka

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> Question about the app I can't find covered: Does it work on the iPad? (I'd think so), and does it support landscape mode?



Yes it does work, but no landscape mode.


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi all

i have a question regarding refresh mode.

i put 4 aaa batterie from amazone 750 mah in refresh mode.

I set 200 ma charing curent and the same for discharging.

i stop the capacity control.

on both charger NC2600 and MC 3000 i stop the refresh my self because the capacity was 1680 ma and for some over 2000 ma.

battery was 31 °c.

did i do something wrong ??? bad setting or wrong use?

or the battery can do this ???

some people on us amazone said that thos batterie are enloop rebrtand.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



steph996 said:


> I set 200 ma charing curent and the same for discharging.


salut manual recommends 0.3 or 0.33C minimum, so 225-250mA min.
Also try DELTA PEAK:0dV
Afaik the voltage drop for termination is less pronounced with low charging currents, so DELTA PEAK:3mV wouldn't be optimal.

Let us know how it goes?

If all fails, you can use Dummy UI Mode with 0.2A. Should work! :thumbsup:


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi Kreisl

i did a new test with 400 ma.

on the NC2600 i have some indication on the screen as : A266 or A279.

dou you now what this mean??


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i just did a 200mA AAA test myself with really old&abused NiMH AAA's which i keep as reference for charger tests. Their internal resistances are read as:
#1 : blue cell Nominal 750mAh ~700mΩ, actual capacity is lower
#2 : blue cell Nominal 750mAh ~400mΩ, actual capacity is lower
#3 : varta cell Nominal 800mAh ~1800mΩ, actual capacity is much lower
#4 : varta cell Nominal 800mAh ~2000mΩ, actual capacity is much lower

i used the DELTA PEAK:0dV setting and there was no problem with termination at 200mA. and there would be even less of a problem with healthy Eneloop aaa cells, in either case the recommended setting is 0dV at 200mA AAA.

click on pic for HD resolution (actually it's 4K resolution :naughty:




the informed reader knows why the voltage graph in this run looks stepped, not smooth. it's because NiMH charging uses _offline _voltage (also called _offload_ voltage) in the charging algorithm and that gets measured every 15 or 20sec or so can't remember, so during this period the firmware holds the NiMH charging voltage 'constant for display (and for use in the charging algorithm)' and hence is not real-time.

the one spike is a funny erratic display quirk caused by the firmware implementation and gives us a glimpse of the _onload _voltage at charge termination. :hahaha:

as the manual states, with the 0dV setting, when the slot feels that the NiMH battery voltage has reached some plateau, it would terminate the charge. on the pic, one can clearly see the battery temperature raise and also the immense drop of _offline _voltage after charge termination. the drop is steeper, faster with the 2 high resistance cells, as expected.

This post shows that charging super poor-health NiMH cells is possible, and one should use a low-ish current for it (to keep the _onload _voltage in rein, otherwise you'll get BATTERY SO POOR error message), and the recommended setting is 0dV. Point made, thx for your attention.


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thank for that.

my test with 400 ma give a better result.

i didn't check the Delta peak because i can't do by bluetooth with phone on MC3000 and on the NC2600 it was 5 mv.

but i don't know what mean those incication A266 on the screen when battery start refresh.

anyway in the new user manual in MC3000 they said : follow the candle power forum :twothumbs

I am not an expert as you are. at witch Mohm we can said battery is dead?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can you show a picture of the A266 error?


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

how i can put picture systeme ask me url.

can i send to you by mail?


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

it happen in refresh mode but note sure it's error message.

for the picture i need an url is there any other option?


----------



## ormandj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The second unit I've now received was FW 1.03. I've looked inside, and it's the older style case, but with a huge dab of glue on the base of the posts. Probably a fine solution, but I'd prefer to have one with the actual fix. Perhaps older stock since I ordered from Amazon and it was sent from their warehouses. Make sure to call/email wherever you are ordering from and request a from-factory-firmware version of 1.10 or later.

What online store can you purchase these from with the updated HW? I've tried two so far with no luck, and Amazon is going to start getting tired of me returning them. This will be round 3.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ormandj said:


> ..... has amazing support, alas, their models are FW 1.03. I've looked inside, and it's the older style case, but with a huge dab of glue on the base of the posts. Probably a fine solution, but I'd prefer to have one with the actual fix.
> 
> What online store can you purchase these from with the updated HW? I've tried two so far with no luck, and ..... is going to start getting tired of me returning them.


Have you tried Fastech? If I was looking for the latest stock on this charger I would try them.


----------



## ormandj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> Have you tried Fastech? If I was looking for the latest stock on this charger I would try them.



Looks like kriesl beat me to asking the question: https://www.fasttech.com/forums/5689000/t/2245709/finally-manual?2246544

Let's hope it's a good answer.  I asked the same general question at Gearbest and illumn, so hopefully it will show up in their Q/A soon, as well.


----------



## ormandj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Gearbest responded indicating they have the latest, so I've placed an order with them.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

it is true that it is possible to make GB sales staff provide photos of stocked items from the warehouse. i once got a clear photo of a stocked flashlight model (also because there was some versioning confusion/website description error), showing serial number and everything, and i placed the order and received the very specimen. so i was satisfied with the product and the gb service. in your case we don't know what kind of 'proof' she provided for you. she could have checked firmware, serial number, or even shared a photo of either. afaik GB is the biggest seller of mc3k and i would have guessed that they carried mixed stock these days but it is also possible that they carry the latest production version, exclusively. in any case good luck with the gb order! 

to my knowledge fasttech does not receive stock directly from sky factory (gb and bg do, though). that may also explain the higher FT price. it remains interesting to learn what kind of production date version ft carries in stock.


----------



## steph996

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

HI how it is possible to put picture??


----------



## olemil

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> that sticker is more of an indicator of the PCB, namely 1.5 design version, and not of the production month. very much all units stocked by dealers this year have PCB v1.5 and that sticker. sorry i wouldn't know about Progressive's stock but i do recommend buying from such a local/national dealer anyway. if you ever were unhappy with their sold products for some reason or had a warranty claim, they would most definitely take care of you the best way possible, rest assured. customer service is their forte. you could inquire, also about their stock of spare parts.
> 
> Good luck!! :rock:



Another silly question, sorry. Does the hardware version as displayed on the screen indicate what "stage" case it may have, if its the newer/better design? One vendor I contacted said theirs is hardware version 1.4 with the newest sticker on the back. Thanks again. :twothumbs


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

No. 
The "HW Version" as displayed on the screen has nothing to do with the case. 
The "HW Version" as displayed on the screen is hard coded in the firmware.
FW1.02 will show "HW Version: 1.3" afaik ( i can't recall ),
FW1.03 will show "HW Version: 1.4" afaik ( i can't recall ), 
FW1.10 and FW1.11 will show "HW Version: 1.4+", 
FW1.12 will show "HW Version: ≥1.3". It's just show.

If the dealer is looking for the latest case revision, then he can look at the "FW Version" delivered ex-factory. 99.9% of FW1.10 and 100.0% of FW1.11 delivered ex-factory are the latest production, the so-called 'June production'.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

As i was inserting the 1st 18650 cell. I heard a really loud pop. Looks like slot 1 has finally snapped. It was the same slot that felt bit loose mentioning while back.







This really sucks  

SN 000888541

I'm going to take it apart.

I got the cover off. The good news the plastic pin did not break and still intact. I think the spring just came off. How do i hook it back to the post. I really don't want to move anything at this point

Actually disregard. The pin did in fact broke.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*







OMG sorry to hear!

Have you contacted the seller for warranty service like repair or replacement or replacement part?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

No warranty outside of the US. Dealer was HKE

Here are the broken pieces







Those metal springs are way too brutal for this cheap plastic. Way too much tension. It was of matter of time. 😳😳


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This is not a new issue for the MC3000, some of the early production units has the same fault.
It would be interesting to know approximately when you bought it for the rest of us.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Viking said:


> This is not a new issue for the MC3000, some of the early production units has the same fault.
> It would be interesting to know approximately when you bought it for the rest of us.



Both chargers were bought in January 2016. Upon further inspection. all 4 slots, the plastic pin is cracked and brittle. I barely touched it and came off in 2 pieces without any effort at all, making the first charger paper weight as now there is no way to hook the springs to. I could hook it to the PCB where the pin used to be but, that can be very risky as the spring is part of the Negative terminal and could cause a short. It's either that or off to Recycling. But then again, you be surprised how strong these PCB are. This is the consequence for not having good quality plastic and proper cooling ( not sure if that could be a contributing factor)   

Just how long before the 2nd charger start having the same issues. I really wish they didn't glue the fan to the cover as it looks like it has a clip holding it in place already.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I could hook it to the PCB where the pin used to be but, that can be very risky as the spring is part of the Negative terminal and could cause a short.



You could strip some isolation from a wire and put on the spring first.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> No warranty outside of the US. Dealer was HKE


I returned flashlights to HKE for warranty service and i live in the gemani.
Lemme check with sky if they ever supplied the spare part to hke. In either case (yes/no) i am confident that you'll end up with an acceptable solution, possibly a free shipment of the spare part to your place.

Don't give up yet, you are not alone :thumbsup:


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I returned flashlights to HKE for warranty service and i live in the gemani.
> Lemme check with sky if they ever supplied the spare part to hke. In either case (yes/no) i am confident that you'll end up with an acceptable solution, possibly a free shipment of the spare part to your place.
> 
> Don't give up yet, you are not alone :thumbsup:



I really hope so. When i heard it snapped i can't believe that it finally happened and i thought it was the far later versions that had the snapping issue. I guess not. And whoever mentioned that taking apart of this charger and putting it back is not easy is right. Mounting the rails back in place is a challenge.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I must say though. The positive terminals is starting to rust.


Did your unit have the silvery-plated terminals? oo:

left:non-silvery, right:silvery


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Did your unit have the silvery-plated terminals? oo:
> 
> left:non-silvery, right:silvery



Its like a strange color. Not too silvery. Looks more like on the left.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Its like a strange color. Not too silvery. Looks more like on the left.


okok, then it's the left what you got. 

the newer ones are clearly silvery, right away to see. 
i don't know when exactly the silvery ones were employed in the production. i thought from early on.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yea i am stuck at getting the spring to hook. The spring is shaped like a ring at the other end. I am guessing that is where you put the plastic pin right in the ring. So i would need a new housing for the charger. No pin no dice is what it comes down to. This sucks:thumbsdow:thumbsdow


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Yea i am stuck at getting the spring to hook. The spring is shaped like a ring at the other end. I am guessing that is where you put the plastic pin right in the ring. So i would need a new housing for the charger. No pin no dice is what it comes down to. This sucks:thumbsdow:thumbsdow


Based on earlier comments in the thread, I believe that is exactly what the replacement part is; a new top of the housing.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> Based on earlier comments in the thread, I believe that is exactly what the replacement part is; a new top of the housing.



Users who are beyond the 1yr warranty period and or love to collect spare parts can buy the new top of the housing from Gearbest.

i love to collect spares. i have six(6) mc3000's around the house. 2 for personal use, the remaining 4 for spare parts


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Gearbest huh lol


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Both chargers were bought in January 2016.



Thanks for the info.


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The plastic pins on my MC3000 snapped a long time ago. I removed the springs, and with a little help from rubber bands I have been able to charge mainly AA and AAA cells on a daily basis for about three months, give or take. Sadly, all good things must come to an end. A couple of days ago, channel #1 and #2 suddenly stopped working. (This has nothing to do with the broken pins) The screen does not light up when I insert a battery; I have tried several, NiMH as well as Li-Ion. I have cleaned everything I could possibly clean with rubbing alcohol, opened up the charger to look for obvious culprits but found none, I have tried resetting to factory settings and re-flashing the latest firmware, all to no avail. Channels #3 and #4 still work, but I can't help but wonder: for how long?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Swede74 said:


> A couple of days ago, channel #1 and #2 suddenly stopped working.


That's a new one. Never heard of that one ever before. Sorry to hear.




( of course, in such a case, warranty would cover, ask your seller for a suggestion )


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The other one still going good so far. I think the culprit is when it comes to 18650 cells. The tension maybe too much for the plastic pin because that is what happened yesterday. I mean, these cells makes AA's look like AAA's. I was getting ready to charge the cells, Inserted the first 18650 and crack, and that was that and right there i knew that charger is done. Should the other one fails (which i know it will). I think i'll just throw in the towel and take it in for Recycling becuse this would now be double whammy if that is the case, and i will no longer be playing the Alpha-Beta game anymore when it comes to hardware. Software i don't care as it can get fix. Can't fix hardware once out of the factory. Let's recap. 

First 

There was/is the not making contact issue with flat-top cells. although, some reported that aaa's had issues making contact but i never had this issue so i can't say much on that but all and all. Manage to workaround that issue.

Second

The 1.02v had the fan installed backwards resulting not able to discharge 4 18650's at 1A. If you don't use the discharge feature much then it's a non issue. However if it's one of the most used feature. This could be a problem unless you modded with insane cooling like that one guy did. Impressive but why did it come down to this?

And Third

The slider mechanism. I honestly think that sky really over looked on this. A device that involves springs and tension requires that the support be extra durable. How did this get missed? i don't know. Now it's paperweight because of this.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@MarioJP: Why don't you 

a) Talk to HKE and see if they can't send you a new case?
b) If they really won't come to the party (and if they don't, please let us know because that's poop) then buy yourself one of these. Fit it and be happy. I realise the "fit it" bit is probably very hard, but I'd rather spend $20 than spend $90 for a new charger.

Just my opinion, feel free to tell me to go away


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> @MarioJP: Why don't you
> 
> a) Talk to HKE and see if they can't send you a new case?
> b) If they really won't come to the party (and if they don't, please let us know because that's poop) then buy yourself one of these. Fit it and be happy. I realise the "fit it" bit is probably very hard, but I'd rather spend $20 than spend $90 for a new charger.
> 
> Just my opinion, feel free to tell me to go away


So this means i have to buy 2. It's only matter of time before the 2nd charger snaps.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> The other one still going good so far. I think the culprit is when it comes to 18650 cells. The tension maybe too much for the plastic pin because that is what happened yesterday. I mean, these cells makes AA's look like AAA's. I was getting ready to charge the cells, Inserted the first 18650 and crack, and that was that and right there i knew that charger is done. Should the other one fails (which i know it will). I think i'll just throw in the towel and take it in for Recycling becuse this would now be double whammy if that is the case, and i will no longer be playing the Alpha-Beta game anymore when it comes to hardware. Software i don't care as it can get fix. Can't fix hardware once out of the factory. Let's recap.
> 
> First
> 
> There was/is the not making contact issue with flat-top cells. although, some reported that aaa's had issues making contact but i never had this issue so i can't say much on that but all and all. Manage to workaround that issue.
> 
> Second
> 
> The 1.02v had the fan installed backwards resulting not able to discharge 4 18650's at 1A. If you don't use the discharge feature much then it's a non issue. However if it's one of the most used feature. This could be a problem unless you modded with insane cooling like that one guy did. Impressive but why did it come down to this?
> 
> And Third
> 
> The slider mechanism. I honestly think that sky really over looked on this. A device that involves springs and tension requires that the support be extra durable. How did this get missed? i don't know. Now it's paperweight because of this.


It's everyone's right to bring the old topic back up again, when he is himself affected by it as an early adopter. ("PRODUCTION THE PAST")
But it's also my right to bring up my response again and again that all these issues were addressed by June. ("PRODUCTION THE PRESENCE")

Again the link: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-new

Of course, i am aware that knowing that PRODUCTION THE PRESENCE is all superb doesn't help the early adopters who might have a chance to run into problems say later this year originating from PRODUCTION THE PAST. Should that occur, then also over and over again: 
Warranty covers problems from PRODUCTION THE PAST. And this should be it, no more trouble from that point on! Pardoned, and moved on.

Personally i feel terribly sorry for all early adopters who have run or might still run into problems with the PRODUCTION THE PAST.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

We're all kidding ourselves if we thought buying the first batch _at a reduced price_ was going to be fully trouble free.

It sucks, it really does, but it's not totally unexpected. I've reversed my fan and if I have to, I'll take the hit to buy a new $20 lid for it.

It's just good to know that they have taken steps to fix it.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> It's everyone's right to bring the old topic back up again, when he is himself affected by it as an early adopter. ("PRODUCTION THE PAST")
> But it's also my right to bring up my response again and again that all these issues were addressed by June. ("PRODUCTION THE PRESENCE")
> 
> Again the link: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-new
> 
> Of course, i am aware that knowing that PRODUCTION THE PRESENCE is all superb doesn't help the early adopters who might have a chance to run into problems say later this year originating from PRODUCTION THE PAST. Should that occur, then also over and over again:
> Warranty covers problems from PRODUCTION THE PAST. And this should be it, no more trouble from that point on! Pardoned, and moved on.
> 
> Personally i feel terribly sorry for all early adopters who have run or might still run into problems with the PRODUCTION THE PAST.



I guess if it comes down to that. Eventually ends up getting replaced. But first, i think i'll order the top housing. Just that having to deal with gb, i don't want to deal with bad service with them. I am surprised that Amazon does not carry these cases, otherwise would have order it without hesitation. HKE does not seem to carry them either. Tried contacting them but to no avail. I'll keep on investigating. See what can be done in the meantime.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> But it's also my right to bring up my response again and again that all these issues were addressed by June. ("PRODUCTION THE PRESENCE")



I think that should be "PRODUCTION THE PRESENT" (ie., "June Production" - with all issues fixed) - but I think we all get the idea.

Also, earlier you said that FW1.10 would be 100% guarantee of "June Production" - but then I saw a later post saying that FW1.10 would be 99.9% guarantee of "June Production" ?????


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Scratch the 100%.

99.9% is a fair way to express probability. 100% would mean me guaranteeing. But how could i guarantee something, if i haven't checked manually and personally myself every stocked unit huh? And for checking, i mean opening the charger!!!!!!!


----------



## ormandj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I received my third charger. The display turns on, but there is no lettering, just a blank screen with backlight. I've tried unplugging it multiple times with no luck. This is beyond frustrating. I just contacted the vendor support, hopefully the return process won't be too messy. I think this one must have gotten banged around pretty well on the plane/trucks. Anybody ever gotten one with a blank display before and been able to fix it?


----------



## kreisl

could be that the brightness setting/contrast is too low
try to insert batteries and see if the SNB's do their green/red blinking

or you could try to do the hard reset procedure since it involves a blank screen too


----------



## ormandj

Amazing advice, thank you so much! I did the hard reset procedure and then did the firmware update, and now it boots just fine! Thank you so much, you saved me a ton of time, and a lot of frustration.



kreisl said:


> could be that the brightness setting/contrast is too low
> try to insert batteries and see if the SNB's do their green/red blinking
> 
> or you could try to do the hard reset procedure since it involves a blank screen too


----------



## kreisl

news flash. i am testing FW1.12 now, a beta version of it. the main motivation for the incremental update was the new function in DEX's upcoming version 3.2.7 but there are also 4 subtle changes in GSV and bug-fixing of Eneloop defaults. DEX 3.2.7 will work harmonically with FW1.11 too because DEX is downward compatible (backward compatible). FW1.12 makes the charger "DEX 3.2.8-ready" is all.

see the list for details. comment: FW1.12 is not an essential upgrade imo yet it follows organically from the development of the aforementioned new DEX function. for now it's an internal release but since the pool of further strong mc3k ideas&suggestions is empty it may well become an official public release some time soon. that's why i am babbling about it now.


----------



## ormandj

kreisl said:


> news flash. i am testing FW1.12 now, a beta version of it. the main motivation for the incremental update was the new function in DEX's upcoming version 3.2.7 but there are also 4 subtle changes in GSV and bug-fixing of Eneloop defaults. DEX 3.2.7 will work harmonically with FW1.11 too because DEX is downward compatible (backward compatible). FW1.12 makes the charger "DEX 3.2.8-ready" is all.
> 
> see the list for details. comment: FW1.12 is not an essential upgrade imo yet it follows organically from the development of the aforementioned new DEX function. for now it's an internal release but since the pool of further strong mc3k ideas&suggestions is empty it may well become an official public release some time soon. that's why i am babbling about it now.



Does it have an issue with system beep -> on but key beep -> off like 1.11 does for me? I didn't see that in your list, but saw the separation seemed to happen in 1.11 so perhaps this is just a bug. I did try a factory reset, but tl;dr I get no completion noise with this setting but the manual indicates I should. That's awesome news re: soon release, looking very forward to it, curious to see what the new functionality available that DEX is utilizing is. Is the API documented? I'd also love to write a firmware update tool that was more reliable that works on Linux-based OSs, since it too a few machines and a bunch of port swapping to find one to even 'see' the charger when I was trying to fix my issue related to your tip, and would prefer not to have to reverse engineer the process if at all possible.


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> Someboby has tried to disable the bip sound?
> 
> If I set the key bip off, the key bip is disabled, that is correct but it disable also the system beep too even if the System Beep is set to ON...??&#55358;&#56596;
> 
> The System Beep is when a status is completed and when there is a system alarm? I think so.
> 
> Key Beep OFF and System Beep ON, I don't have the 10 beeps when the charge is completed...


You found a bug, appreciated, listed under (k#73) thanks. 

API-spec is not freely available afaik, especially not anything firmware update related. DEX for example does not handle mc3k firmware update, i guess because of lack of API-doc. And in any case firmware updates will be less frequent, or let's say less substantial, from now on, my guess. As you can see the list of things done/fixed since v1.03 was immense already, so there are less and less things to be done/fixed now. Pool is empty, as i said. The maker may not have the time to answer API support questions and handle all the incoming related requests. Just my assumption.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> You found a bug, appreciated, listed under (k#73) thanks. API-spec is not freely available afaik, especially not anything firmware update related. DEX for example does not handle mc3k firmware update, i guess because of lack of API-doc. And in any case firmware updates will be less frequent, or let's say less substantial, from now on, my guess. As you can see the list of things done/fixed since v1.03 was immense already, so there are less and less things to be done/fixed now. Pool is empty, as i said. The maker may not have the time to answer API support questions and handle all the incoming related requests. Just my assumption.



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/389700

#3436


----------



## steph996

Hi to all.

just to tell you if you are using NC2600 Skyrc put a new app version on playstore.

i did some test and graph for aaa battery where not working. it should be fixed now.

have a good day

Kreisl do you want somme picture of my MC3000 it should be the last version, beacause i receive from skyrc directly?


----------



## ormandj

Android app bug: When exiting, it disables bluetooth on the phone (this is not desirable behavior). Also, when exiting, if it didn't find a device, it crashes.


----------



## steph996

Hi Ormanj.

you speak about NC2600??
If it's about this charger may you have look on the new app please


----------



## STIXXXXX

Hi there...

I´m a proud owner of the MC3000 since a week, and am very happy with it, but maybe I found another bug:
I can not select the favourite programs 1-4 by clicking up and slotnumber. This only works, when I first click a Slot to get into program-menu, and then go back by pressing stop or selecting a program. Afterwards I can select the favorite programs with up+slotnumber for about 15 seconds. After ~15 sec. The charger doesn´t react on the shortcut.
Is this behaviour mentioned before?

Greets from Germany

STIXXXXX


----------



## ormandj

App is SkyRC MC3000. Says version 2.6 in Play store but when it opens it says "V3.0". I checked for updates and saw none.



steph996 said:


> Hi Ormanj.
> 
> you speak about NC2600??
> If it's about this charger may you have look on the new app please


----------



## kreisl

STIXXXXX said:


> maybe I found another bug:
> I can not select the favourite programs 1-4 by clicking up and slotnumber. This only works, when I first click a Slot to get into program-menu, and then go back by pressing stop or selecting a program. Afterwards I can select the favorite programs with up+slotnumber for about 15 seconds. After ~15 sec. The charger doesn´t react on the shortcut.


I can confirm the presence of the bug, interesting one, thanks! The timing out occurs after ~30sec on my sample and I've listed your finding under (k#74). 
The easy reproduction of the bug doesn't equal its easy kill though. 

And congrats to the new ownership!  

@ormandj, i've listed your finding too, thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## StandardBattery

steph996 said:


> Hi to all.
> 
> just to tell you if you are using NC2600 Skyrc put a new app version on playstore.
> ....


Let's keep NC2600 stuff out of this thread, it has it's own thread and we don't need extra confusion, this charger has enough of that.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Well said - let's stick with the MC3000 here. It is already plenty difficult to keep up with one charger. And in that context, a new link here to MC3000 issues might be useful (post 6).

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...kyRC-%97-IFA-2014-%97-MC3000-charger-analyzer




StandardBattery said:


> Let's keep NC2600 stuff out of this thread, it has it's own thread and we don't need extra confusion, this charger has enough of that.


----------



## STIXXXXX

...and another "bug":
The capacity cut at eneloop Pro AA is 3400, but maybe this is already known?


----------



## STIXXXXX

STIXXXXX said:


> ...and another "bug":
> The capacity cut at eneloop Pro AA is 3400, but maybe this is already known?



I meant 2400....


----------



## kreisl

STIXXXXX said:


> ...and another "bug":
> The capacity cut at eneloop Pro AA is 3400, but maybe this is already known?


Good day, the internal Eneloop table in FW1.12 should be the following:







It's true that the mapping was daneben in FW1.11, noted under (k#63).
Thanks for your critical findings, very much appreciated!


----------



## Dr. Mario

Curious, though, where shall I buy the MC3000 charger here in North America? It's occasionally hard to trust Amazon, due to the fact that they occasionally sell fake clone of such products. And, to make matter worse, SkyRC don't even have the official North American dealers. This charger is pretty nice, and kind of a must-have due to the fact it supports several type of Lithium-ion battery chemistry (including Lithium : Iron Phosphate cells which not every chargers officially support).


----------



## kreisl

Just to make things clear for the occasional surfer here:

clone MC3000 and fake MC3000 do not exist.

( all PCB's have a squirrel logo printed. authenticity checks passed. )


----------



## Dr. Mario

Hopefully. I may be considering buying MC3000 charger at some point. In fact, I handle several types of bare Lithium-ion batteries, so it would be nice to have a charger capable of charging those available Li-ion batteries (although I don't think the 2.4 Volts Lithium : Titanium Oxide cells is on the list, although I may be wrong).


----------



## kreisl

Dr. Mario said:


> the 2.4 Volts Lithium : Titanium Oxide cells is on the








( it would be straight-forward to add BATT TYPE:LTO to the code but i am not sure where to buy commercial round LTO cells for end-consumer use )​


----------



## Dr. Mario

LTO cells do exist, but is expensive, and hard to find. At least for now, as was the case with Li : FePO4 cells back in mid-2000s. I can wait though, as MC3000 is software upgradeable, as far as I know.


----------



## jaywalk

kreisl said:


> ( it would be straight-forward to add BATT TYPE:LTO to the code but i am not sure where to buy commercial round LTO cells for end-consumer use )​



ev-power sells 18650 LTO cells to end customers, but they come with both poles up north so won't fit the MC3000 without some extra work or an adapter. There shouldn't be a big need for a LTO profile as of yet but I'm sure the time will come for this chemestry too.


----------



## StandardBattery

kreisl said:


> Just to make things clear for the occasional surfer here:
> 
> clone MC3000 and fake MC3000 do not exist.
> 
> ( all PCB's have a squirrel logo printed. authenticity checks passed. )


That's because the charger cloners are way too busy with the Nitecore models, I think they make more than Nitecore themselves now  

Wait until it's perfected though..... they could be hot on your tail.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

When we charge NiMh and set a trickle charge, why we can't change the trickle time? The setting value is end.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> When we charge NiMh and set a trickle charge, why we can't change the trickle time? The setting value is end.


Hi, there are about 12 different cases depending on Operation Mode, Cycle Mode, C.Resting, D.Resting, Trickle C., and Trickle Time, where the firmware logically alters (=restricts) the selection range of Trickle C. and Trickle Time. Let's take 2 of the 12 different cases to exemplify:

_ex6_: NiMH Cycle D>C>D, D.RESTING:5min, C.RESTING:0min. You have set the options thus far. Now you're landing with your cursor on the option TRICKLE C.; it's a fixed OFF, because for the program there is no chance to apply trickle charge because you set the resting phase after Charge to 0min. No resting phase, so no trickle charge. And since there can't be any trickle charge, the next option TRICKLE TIME must be a fixed OFF too. What about RESTART VOLT? In our example this option is a fixed OFF too because the cycling ends with a discharge routine, and after discharge routines RESTART VOLT does not apply.

_ex8_: That's your case afaik. NiMH Charge, C.RESTING:0min. With the resting phase after Charge set to 0min, there is no resting after Charge, so the option TRICKLE TIME lacks the parameter Rest. Hence, once you set a value for TRICKLE C., the parameter range {OFF|Rest|End} is automatically reduced to {End}. Also, RESTART VOLT gets a fixed OFF, because RESTART VOLT and TRICKLE C. are mutually exclusive as per design spec.

If you changed C.RESTING to say 5min, then you could set TRICKLE TIME to End (_ex10_) or to Rest (_ex11_).


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thank you for this explaination. I think it has been changed compared to FW1.02.[emoji106]


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have FW1.02.
TRICKLE Charge isn't a fixed off In this firmware edition.
After setting NiMH to Cycle D>C>D, D.RESTING:5min, and C.RESTING:0min as in Kreisl's exsamle ex6 listed above (in post 3712), you still have the option to set TRICKLE C to either off or choose among values between 10- 300 mA in 10 mA intervals ( 10, 20, 30 up to 300 mA). However I see no option named TRICKLE TIME in FW1.02.

Also in Kreisl's exsamle ex8 TRICKLE Charge isn't a fixed off in FW1.02.
Again I have the option to set TRICKLE Charge, but I see no option named TRICKLE TIME.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

See (k#41) the trickle charge feature of the firmware was fully revised in FW1.11, a small bug (k#68) was left over and has been fixed in FW1.12. Afaik the future versions of PCLS, APP, DEX, etc won't support old FW versions like FW1.02 (and FW1.03?) anymore.

Hello Viking, can you update to FW1.11 or why did you stick with the old?


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Maybe I will sometime. But so far FW 1.02 works fine for my needs


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thinking about it.
If the option TRICKLE TIME also exist under nimh charge mode in FW versions 1.11 or 1.12, that could make me update.
That way I could make a time limited 2 hour top off charge (or even less or longer after my own choosing) like Maha C9000 offers.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes, with FW1.11 this is possible. Timed trickle charge after the charging has finished. If you want 100min trickle charging, then you'd have to set C.RESTING=100min and TRICKLE TIME=Rest


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Great!
That is one of very few options I have missed in this excellent analyzer.
Now I definitely will update, but perhaps I will wait for fw 1.12
As I understand, it won't be that long before its release.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Viking said:


> As I understand, it won't be that long before its release.


Yes that's what i had understood too in Feb about FW1.04, yet it never was released. Since then the version had been increasing without seeing a release publique in between. Until June. The jump from 1.03 to 1.11. But i'll try to get the next non-beta version shared as soon as possible. Still debugging FW1.12beta.

If PCLS works fine on your system (say 64-bit Win10, old USB cable, whatever) by successfully logging hours-long full runs without USB connection breaks, then you're on the safe side and should try to update the FW through your very system.
It'll be difficult to predict the date/version of the next fw release, more new random bugs might come along.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have just downloaded MC3000 monitor this very minute 
It seems to work alright. At least it reconise that I currently have FW 1.02.
I Can't upgrade through the internet via the MC3000 monitor though. It seems I have to manually download the 1.11 FW file and make the upgrade without the MC3000 monitor. But that doesn't work either, it can't find my device it says when I try to upgrade this way :-(


I'm running windows 10, 64 bit


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

News flash. DEX new version update has been released: 


> *DataExplorer Version 3.2.7 released*
> _Item posted on Sun 11 Sep 2016 05:59:58 PM UTC._
> …
> 20) MC3000
> - add new system temperature measurement value
> - add RAM cell type support
> - correct NiZn program modus
> - adapt to FW 1.05+, power and energy retrieved directly from device
> - fix problem while closing application with running data gatherer thread
> - enable set charge programs to slots
> - log capacity with 1 decimal
> …


For full change log, please see:
http://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=8680

There is this new function which i'd call 'Backup & Restore' (_menu >> Device >> Device tool box Ctrl+T_) but it didn't show right away after the 3.2.7 installation. So here is my recommended installation procedure:

deinstall/uninstall your old DEX version (3.2.6) 
go to C:\Documents and Settings\krisell\Application Data\ and delete the whole \DataExplorer\-folder with all its contents 
install the new DEX version (3.2.7) 
launch DEX. launching new DEX for the first time will re-create fresh folders with fresh contents in \%APPDATA%\. configure DEX, select MC3000. now hit <Ctrl+T> to open the new dialog thanks


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks, but the krisell path ist not for everyone


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

true. hhh 










​


----------



## ormandj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

kreisl, I have a feature request/change.

I suggest that the capacity field always be entered accurately, and an additional option for a safety margin be added. That way the charger can do the automatic .5c/.2c charge/discharge calculations for example, but you can still allow for a variance of 5%,10%,20%, etc. I would make this option a percentage. Right now it indicates in the manual that you add a buffer of 20% when entering the capacity, and that this value is then added as a safety cut for charge and discharge. That throws off the automatic C rating calculations it does for charge and discharge rates, so you have to manually calculate them. Adding this additional field for a percentage safety margin will allow accurate entry of the capacity of the cell while still allowing for some buffer due to thermal losses on charge/discharge cycles and make life easier with reduction of math - it is a smart charger, we aren't all smart people.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ormandj said:


> throws off


i 100% understand what you're talking about, you can feel totally understood, and i appreciate the degree of clarity and detail of your suggestion! so here it goes:
yours, not a new idea, when the UI and the capacity cut feature, taken over from classic hobby chargers, was being developed and later again at the point of composing the manual, ideas similar to yours were considered and decided upon, namely against. (…) while you'd be right that there would be 'nothing really to lose' if there were such an additional option in spv, to keep things as simple and straight-forward as possible (KISS principle) the principle would say that it's 'not necessary', not strong enough an idea to warrant the implementation and all its consequences on various levels. 2 options for 1 single purpose, the capacity cut? "no, not likable, sorry" would the makers say and that's it.

my personal standpoint is, as with hobby chargers, the CAPACITY figure is best understood as the exact mAh where the process would stop. Anybody can understand this concept. Also because this concept is decoupled from notions of NOMINAL CAPACITY and other capacity terms (e.g. minimal capacity, typical capacity, standard capacity, maximal capacity, real capacity, actual capacity, rated capacity, anotherconfusingadjective capacity, etc). No notion, no concept needed!_ IF mAh=CAPACITY, then CUT! _That's as simple, easy to understand, and clear as it gets. For example i have old abused Enelup AA batteries, in a cold room i get a mere ~1600mAh out of them (and only i know it!). Manually setting 2400mAh, =(100+20%)*2000mAh NOMINAL, as capacity cut would be far off from a correct setting. "Correct" would be 1900mAh (=120%*1600mAh ACTUAL). In theory, even with your 0% i couldn't get down to 1900mAh: (100+0%)*2000mAh=2000mAh > 1900mAh. In practice, my niece —who also likes to read the manual— would have set the aforementioned 2400mAh, which turns out 500mAh wrong, too high. Imho this simple realistic example/scenario alone already throws off the idea of having a second option for the capacity cut.

now, in practice with the present implementation: For Li-batteries, one does not need any buffer, let alone a capacity cut. If you have a Samsung or Panasonic cell and it has 3500 written on it somewhere, then you can just use this very number as value for the CAPACITY parameter. Under normal conditions, when you charge such a battery, the mAh will not reach 3500. The charger cannot overcharge Li-batteries because the charging stops at the TERMINATION current and the MC3000 counts mAh's very accurately; if you ever witness another charger-analyzer pumping over 3500mAh into a GA, then i am telling you it's ****. For Ni-batteries, one could add 20% to the _actual _capacity, sure. A breeze to calculate what 1.2*1600 are, roughly/rounded. Done. No further thinking or understanding needed. No need to explain what the many capacity terms mean and which of those numbers, found for example in PDF datasheets, should be entered in your CAPACITY option. No confusion. I prefer that, no confusion. Less things to explain. A shorter SPV list. A shorter, clearer manual. No 'unnecessary' options. You get the point. The point is, your idea was already considered at different instances and it was turned down. And i was one of them with a let's rather not have it different from what it presently is. Sorry mate!

Yes, unfortunately the default charge/discharge rates get thrown off. But only by as little as you do enter a buffer. Never mind


----------



## lhw1993

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is MR-3000 the latest model? What is the difference between the MR-3000 and NC-2500?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



lhw1993 said:


> Is MR-3000 the latest model? What is the difference between the MR-3000 and NC-2500?



The MC-3000 is the "latest" model, yes.
The NC-2500 is only for NiMH batteries.
The MC-3000 is for, well, everything.

The NC-2500 is like a C9000 charger. The MC-3000 doesn't really have anything similar too it, I support a BT-3100 is kinda close, but not really.


----------



## aldock

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Has anyone purchased a MC3000 thru Amazon. I can find no information if the two sellers are offering the latest version. Sagertronics and ProgressiveRC are the re-sellers for Amazon Fulfillment.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



lhw1993 said:


> Is MR-3000 the latest model? What is the difference between the MR-3000 and NC-2500?





tjh said:


> The MC-3000 is the "latest" model, yes.
> The NC-2500 is only for NiMH batteries.
> The MC-3000 is for, well, everything.
> 
> The NC-2500 is like a C9000 charger. The MC-3000 doesn't really have anything similar too it, I support a BT-3100 is kinda close, but not really.


Also the NC-2500 was replaced with the NC-2600. The NC-2500 was not so hot which is one reason I have not jumped on the MC-3000 just yet.


----------



## Jkuro

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aldock said:


> Has anyone purchased a MC3000 thru Amazon. I can find no information if the two sellers are offering the latest version. Sagertronics and ProgressiveRC are the re-sellers for Amazon Fulfillment.



i have purchased one last week from Amazon. Sagertronics was the vendor, and firmware version was 1.03


----------



## Wild4fire

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



lhw1993 said:


> Is MR-3000 the latest model? What is the difference between the MR-3000 and NC-2500?



As stated before, the MC-3000 can handle about any type of battery. But for me, the most important aspect was that the MC-3000 has PC software for logging.


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aldock said:


> Has anyone purchased a MC3000 thru Amazon. I can find no information if the two sellers are offering the latest version. Sagertronics and ProgressiveRC are the re-sellers for Amazon Fulfillment.


I purchased the MC3000 through amazon.de
Seller was sagertronics and fw was 1.10


----------



## aldock

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks, Just ordered from Amazon.


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have another suggestion:
When hitting stop in slotview, the charging immediately stops. I accidently stopped the program very often, just because I wanted to get back to the overview. Maybe one could change the stop-signal to holding the stop button?

Greets
STIX


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello STIX, sorry for you accidentally stopping the charging with a click on the SETUP button. Okay no problem, in next fw update one will need to long-press the button to finish the process prematurely, i'd agree thanks! (k#75)

btw there is a fine difference between 'stopping a slot' and 'finishing a slot', you may know.


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Hello STIX, sorry for you accidentally stopping the charging with a click on the SETUP button. Okay no problem, in next fw update one will need to long-press the button to finish the process prematurely, i'd agree thanks! (k#75)
> 
> btw there is a fine difference between 'stopping a slot' and 'finishing a slot', you may know.



Oh, what´s the difference then?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*






:thinking:


----------



## lhw1993

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> The MC-3000 is the "latest" model, yes.
> The NC-2500 is only for NiMH batteries.
> The MC-3000 is for, well, everything.
> 
> The NC-2500 is like a C9000 charger. The MC-3000 doesn't really have anything similar too it, I support a BT-3100 is kinda close, but not really.





Wild4fire said:


> As stated before, the MC-3000 can handle about any type of battery. But for me, the most important aspect was that the MC-3000 has PC software for logging.





StandardBattery said:


> Also the NC-2500 was replaced with the NC-2600. The NC-2500 was not so hot which is one reason I have not jumped on the MC-3000 just yet.



Thanks for the explanation, I just ordered the MC-3000 from GearBest


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ok, thanks, but there should be no practical reason to get a finished slot (maybe only to get the data from slotview afterwards..)
With a stopped slot you could just start another program again.
So, no big deal in difference of finished/stopped..


----------



## Jkuro

Well, the slot spring pin already broke on my unit with less than a week of using it. Sending it right back to Amazon and now only going to find a FW version 1.11 model.


----------



## StandardBattery

Jkuro said:


> Well, the slot spring pin already broke on my unit with less than a week of using it. Sending it right back to Amazon and now only going to find a FW version 1.11 model.


Which seller did you buy from on Amazon?


----------



## kreisl

Jkuro said:


> and now only going to find a FW version 1.11 model.


broken pin within 1 week? wow that sounds bad, sorry to hear.

2 or so retailers in the EU now have the latest production revision in stock, you could ask the retailer to personally check again before shipping.
probably also the large volume Chinese etailers like GB and BG have the latest but one cannot expect that they check in person before shipping.
feel free to look for units with FW version 1.10. In the desired June production maybe only a fraction got the 1.11 update, it was literally a last minute change afaik and independent from the hardware. the hardware of FW1.10 and FW1.11 units is identical.


----------



## Jkuro

StandardBattery said:


> Which seller did you buy from on Amazon?



it was Sagertronics.

it was about 6 times that a AA cell was inserted/removed from it. Then it popped on the second time I in placed an 18650 in it.

I will definitely try and contact a vendor first to ask what version they have.


----------



## aldock

I just recieved a response to an e-mail from SkyRC that states ProgressiveRC was being their official US dealer. Upon calling ProgressiveRC to order the MC3000 I spoke to someone that indicated all of their stock was the newest version(could not tell which FW version because the box must be breached?) He told me all units shipped had the posts strengthened with epoxy to prevent breakage but are not the newly designed post. So in my mind this is not the newest version. Would or should this be of concern?


----------



## Stereodude

kreisl said:


> probably also the large volume Chinese etailers like GB and BG have the latest but one cannot expect that they check in person before shipping.
> feel free to look for units with FW version 1.10. In the desired June production maybe only a fraction got the 1.11 update, it was literally a last minute change afaik and independent from the hardware. the hardware of FW1.10 and FW1.11 units is identical.


I just got one from GB with US plug and it had FW 1.10 on it out of the box.


----------



## kreisl

I just got revised FW1.12 (still a beta?) and have tested it already: all bugs fixed! please see the list for updated statusses.
i am also testing DEX 3.2.8 beta which needs to be made compatible with FW1.12+, since there were finally changes in the API-spec. PCLS and APP will be made compatible to the new API-spec at a later point. Once all three softwarez are compatible, the new firmware could be released i guess?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*



xdriver said:


> What is the link for the PC Link software?


free official software PCLS : http://www.skyrc.com/download/MC3000_Monitor_V102.rar
free third-party software DEX : http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/dataexplorer


----------



## xdriver

*Re: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*

What is the link for the PC Link software? I don't know why I can't find it. Thank you.


----------



## xdriver

*Re: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*



kreisl said:


> free official software PCLS : http://www.skyrc.com/download/MC3000_Monitor_V102.rar
> free third-party software DEX : http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/dataexplorer




Thank you. Did you do this through their download - query page? For some reason every search produced no results, almost like it wasn't working. I tried multiple browsers as well. Thank you.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*



xdriver said:


> their download - query page?


Their download-query page does not seem to work?

I found the links thru browsing the entire sky website :twothumbs


----------



## xdriver

*Re: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*



kreisl said:


> Their download-query page does not seem to work?
> 
> I found the links thru browsing the entire sky website :twothumbs




I couldn't get any results for any keywords at all. Thank you for taking the time to find it for me. (Now the charger says low input voltage when connected to my computer. I will need to figure that one out or just use another computer)

Thanks again


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list*

After some weeks of using, there´s one annoyance left for me:
The fixed contacts of the slots are not far enough out of the case. When using flat-top 18650, there is no contact made, unless i am putting in the batteries at the upper limit of the spring-contacts. So no more temp-control.. 
I don´t think, that this is due to compatibility issues, I have most problems in slot number 2, where the fixed contact is completely in-line with the case.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I use magnets to charge my flat-top batteries.


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> I use magnets to charge my flat-top batteries.


Yeah, that would be possible, but I don´t like to work ON the charger, but WITH it 
Besides there would be a simple solution and just get the contact 2mm out of the case..
And no problems with resistance when using magnets?


----------



## gyzmo2002

You just have to wait for a future version if the contact solution is simple. The magnets is the simple solution I use [emoji6]

Same resistance reading. I just tried with a button top cell with and without magnet. 

On the picture, LG MJ1 flat top with a 6mm magnet.


----------



## tjh

The SkyRC MC3000 webpage has just been updated.
The firmware update has been removed (?) and in it's place is a file called MC3000.apk which I assume is the MC3000 app for an Android phone.

Quite bizzare.


----------



## Jkuro

I never received a response from Progressive RC, but it appears that the units are shipped from there since they are in the US and Sagertronics is in China. I never received a response from Progressive RC, so I ended up ordering from Gearbest. 
The unit received is FW 1.10, HW 1.4.
Curiosity got the best of me, so I had to open it up and check the spring posts. I dont know if its an improved design/material, but if it breaks I'll embed some stainless rods in it.


----------



## ssalb

Jkuro said:


> I never received a response from Progressive RC, but it appears that the units are shipped from there since they are in the US and Sagertronics is in China. I never received a response from Progressive RC, so I ended up ordering from Gearbest.
> The unit received is FW 1.10, HW 1.4.
> Curiosity got the best of me, so I had to open it up and check the spring posts. I dont know if its an improved design/material, but if it breaks I'll embed some stainless rods in it.



Looks like you received the newer version. I took a chance and ordered one from Amazon. Just received it today. FW 1.03 and the sticker section not recessed. So not the newer version. It's going back unfortunately. I'm not going to shell out $100 for a charger and then have to worry that it may break. Since it was Sold by Sagertronics and *Fulfilled by Amazon*, Amazon's return policy is used.

When you order it says by ProgressiveRC but below, sold by Sagertronics. Yes they are in China, but apparently have a warehouse in the U.S. Return address on the label.
Sagertronics
172 Trade Street
Lexington, KY.
I was wondering how they would deliver it in two days.

How long did it take to get it from Gearbest?


----------



## Jkuro

I ordered on the 17th and selected DHL for shipping. Shipped on the 19th and received today, the 21st.


----------



## STIXXXXX

Ok, thanks for the readings, gyzmo2002.
Maybe, I´ll give it a try...


----------



## kreisl

tjh said:


> The firmware update has been removed (?) and in it's place is a file called MC3000.apk


The FW update is still accessible thru news page hehehe




:
http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=news/content&news_id=188


----------



## Stereodude

So I came home from work yesterday to find my MC3000 playing "Pong" on the LCD with the backlight on and making beeping noises as the ball bounced around. Why on earth would someone program a charger that's plugged into the wall but without batteries in it to do that? I pressed a few buttons on the front, but it didn't want to stop, so I just unplugged it. :thinking:


----------



## kreisl

Stereodude said:


> Why on earth


the only possible explanation i could find was in the geman manual in the section on TOV, page m14


----------



## tjh

Stereodude said:


> So I came home from work yesterday to find my MC3000 playing "Pong" on the LCD with the backlight on and making beeping noises as the ball bounced around. Why on earth would someone program a charger that's plugged into the wall but without batteries in it to do that? I pressed a few buttons on the front, but it didn't want to stop, so I just unplugged it. :thinking:



Well, I put in the feature request for a screensaver. But the beeping I didn't request! You can turn off all beeping (and/or the screensaver) in the SOV.


----------



## Stereodude

tjh said:


> Well, I put in the feature request for a screensaver. But the beeping I didn't request! You can turn off all beeping (and/or the screensaver) in the SOV.


Why can't it just turn off the LCD like a normal charger and act like it's off? There were no batteries in it.


----------



## tjh

Stereodude said:


> Why can't it just turn off the LCD like a normal charger and act like it's off? There were no batteries in it.



Because no one requested it as a feature, I suppose. Why not request it? That's how so many bugs got fixed and little features got added in v1.11, user feedback.


----------



## jaywalk

Here's a feature request/fix: Currently accumulated current over time (mAh) is always counted positively, even when the current is negative (discharging). On the display energy (Wh) is correctly counted as negative when discharging, but positive in DEX. The expected behavour and what I'd like to see:

Discharging: mAh accumulates to a negative number, both on the display and in DEX. Same for energy (Wh).
Charging: Remain as today, positive values on display and over USB.

A second related request: I'd like the option to count energy in it's SI unit Joules (J) rather than Wh. Wh = (J/s)*3600s = 3600*J so it's a simple scaling factor but for me a more sensible way to count energy. A NiMH AA cell kepps around 10kJ of energy for example. As I see Wh being common around batteries perhaps this should be a user option to choose his or her preference.


----------



## kreisl

i am very pleased to announce that beta testing of FW1.12 (beta) and DEX3.2.8 (beta) has been completed, they work beautifully together. of course all versions are compatible with each other (1.11 1.12 3.2.7 3.2.8).

*MC3000 Backup & Restore:*
https://abload.de/img/dex15fps2hurq.gif 
_(animated GIF, 15fps version: 4.5MB, 5min30s duration)_

the GIF shows how i'd test the function and look for bugs, i can't expect everyone to understand what exactly i am doing there, my extended testing procedure. 
yet some might find it interesting just to watch:thinking:


----------



## ssalb

kreisl said:


> i am very pleased to announce that beta testing of FW1.12 (beta) and DEX3.2.8 (beta) has been completed, they work beautifully together. of course all versions are compatible with each other (1.11 1.12 3.2.7 3.2.8).
> 
> *MC3000 Backup & Restore:*
> https://abload.de/img/dex15fps2hurq.gif
> _(animated GIF, 15fps version: 4.5MB, 5min30s duration)_
> 
> the GIF shows how i'd test the function and look for bugs, i can't expect everyone to understand what exactly i am doing there, my extended testing procedure.
> yet some might find it interesting just to watch:thinking:



Hi Kreisl,
Thanks for your dedication to this thread and charger!!!
One question. I can see from your gif that you are still using Windows XP. Please tell me that this all works in a modern and fully supported OS such as Windows 10 including updating the FW. I've read quite a bit of this thread and have seen some posts that make me wonder if its supported.

Thanks


----------



## Stereodude

Has anyone measured the charging efficiency of the MC3000 in terms of Whr consumed to _x_ Whr put in the batteries?

Like a AA Eneloop has about 2.4Wh. So, if you're charging 4 of them with the MC3000, at say C/2 per battery, how many Whr does the charger use to put 9.6Whr into the 4 batteries?

Similarly a 3500mAh Li-ion is about 12.5Whr, so how many Whr does the charger use to charge two of them at say C/2?


----------



## ormandj

aldock said:


> I just recieved a response to an e-mail from SkyRC that states ProgressiveRC was being their official US dealer. Upon calling ProgressiveRC to order the MC3000 I spoke to someone that indicated all of their stock was the newest version(could not tell which FW version because the box must be breached?) He told me all units shipped had the posts strengthened with epoxy to prevent breakage but are not the newly designed post. So in my mind this is not the newest version. Would or should this be of concern?



I saw the insides of one of these, and there is a LOT of epoxy around the posts, so I doubt the posts would break.


----------



## ormandj

ssalb said:


> Hi Kreisl,
> Thanks for your dedication to this thread and charger!!!
> One question. I can see from your gif that you are still using Windows XP. Please tell me that this all works in a modern and fully supported OS such as Windows 10 including updating the FW. I've read quite a bit of this thread and have seen some posts that make me wonder if its supported.
> 
> Thanks



It doesn't play terribly nicely with W10 for firmware updates. I tried two until I found one that worked to get the FW update done from 1.10 to 1.11.


----------



## xdriver

Can the firmware be updated with a mac? If so, how?


----------



## bigdaddycool

I just bought SkyRc MC3000, and I got FW 1.03 and HW 1.4. Its from Sagertronics in Amazon. Is it not a pre-June production model with messed up pins? I don't wanna return it but I don't wanna sit on a $99 item which would go brick in few months or so. Help me decide, should I return it? Or am I being too paraniod? Seems like Amazon Sagertronics is crapshoot, u have no idea which version you gonna get and they still got 1.03 version.


----------



## Minimoog

I calibrated my two units today - voltage and current. It was worth doing as some values were a little high, some set a little low - probably components settling in. Only thing, the instructions says to use a Fluke meter, but not a model number. Instead I used a Gossen Metrawatt M249A - link here https://www.reichelt.com/?LANGUAGE=...&PROVID=2788&gclid=CNuar8_Jps8CFeEV0wodtzQBkg but I am not sure if this is as good as the Fluke mentioned in the manual. What model Fluke is suggested?


----------



## kreisl

@jaywalk,
thanks for the input! although your ideas were already considered and decided against at an early design stage, i have relisted them as (UNCONFIRMED) instead of the stronger (NOT AGREED). both ideas would 'add' to the user interface and they're 'inoffensive': they wouldn't harm, that i agree!, and most people wouldn't care or even notice. The main reasons for the missing negative sign were iirc: 1) they are uncommon from a mass consumer's perspective, and other analyzers/softwarez/products/data publishers/reviewer/etc don't do it either, and it makes direct visual comparison of capacities harder in PCLS and DEX, and 2) afaik there is a space limitation on the LCD screen with a resolution of 18chars per line: "1∂4.19 -2.00 11000" fills out 18chars already, so where to squeeze in the negative sign? Next, multiplying Wh with 3.6 gives us kJ, very simple. If we discuss units, shouldn't we then also question the units of all other quantities (capacity, voltage, current, power, time, resistance) and consider alternatives? For 1 physical quantity one can find hundreds of physical units, e.g. for energy we have: J, kJ, MJ, etc, Wh, mWh, kWh, cal, Cal, kcal, Btu, thm, Ry, Ha, eV, ft·lb, hp·hr, l·atm, erg, sn·m, dyn·cm, and more exotic ones plus the ×10³ engineering multiples. Upon every physical unit the maker's team took a decision and that was that. Since i am not strongly behind your idea, when i'd bring it up, it'd be off the table in no time. Also, since man-hours are limited, i'd rather have them work on other to-do's, see (k#71) or (k#61) which are both already existing options in GSV with 1 fixed parameter only and i'd love to see an expanded parameter range; again, most ppl wouldn't care or make use of the expanded range. Yet at least _i_'d feel motivated to motivate them to make time for that implementation task 

@ssalb,
i have no personal experience with Win10. Some Win10 users get DEX and the FW update working on Win10, some don't. DEX site does not list Win10 as officially unsupported.

@xdriver,
firmware update through mac is not offered. but maybe(?) the maker will consider firmware update thru bluetooth app in future? the NC2500 allows firmware update thru bluetooth app, which is cool.

@Stereodude,
Design spec is:
blank LCD = no power, or something's wrong
when connected to power and no batteries = LCD displays NO BATTERY, with backlight on or off 
Charging efficiency is something which reviewers of charging equipment rarely look at because electricity is inexpensive (grid, mains, solar). And if someone measured 80% efficiency, such a number imho wouldn't mean much without a comparison to other similar chargers. It would be more instructive to measure the charging efficiency of the many different Nietcore i4 and D4 revisions 

@Minimoog,
congrats to the user calibration! In the geman manual version it is called "Feinkalibrierung" (_lit._ fine calibration). Beautiful multimeter you got there! Never heard of the brand before. But with that price it's got to be better than any fluke dmm which the manual writer had in mind :thumbsup:
By the way the calibration is vely stable! After months of mc3k usage my user calibration points did not shift a bit. If your factory calibration proved a bit off, then it was like that ex factory


----------



## Stereodude

kreisl said:


> when connected to power and no batteries = LCD displays NO BATTERY, with backlight on or off


Or apparently a rectangular block labeled MC3000 moving around the screen with a ball bouncing around off the edges and the moving block as well.



> Charging efficiency is something which reviewers of charging equipment rarely look at because electricity is inexpensive (grid, mains, solar). And if someone measured 80% efficiency, such a number imho wouldn't mean much without a comparison to other similar chargers. It would be more instructive to measure the charging efficiency of the many different Nietcore i4 and D4 revisions


Yes, I agree. If you're on grid the charging efficiency is a who cares. If you're off grid working out of a backpack with a small solar panel and Li-Ion powerbank you might care that your NiMH charger is only 40% efficient. FWIW, that's how efficient my LaCross BC-700 is. It uses ~25Whr to put ~10Whr into 4 AA Eneloops. Obviously the MC3000 is a little big to stuff in your backpack and use as a mobile charger in that scenario, but I'm curious of the efficiency and I will be measuring it shortly.

Edit: Can't measure it today. The power jack isn't a 5.5/2.1mm barrel and I'm not about to cut the end off the power supply. I guess it's a 5.5/2.5mm barrel and I will need to buy one.


----------



## ssalb

bigdaddycool said:


> I just bought SkyRc MC3000, and I got FW 1.03 and HW 1.4. Its from Sagertronics in Amazon. Is it not a pre-June production model with messed up pins? I don't wanna return it but I don't wanna sit on a $99 item which would go brick in few months or so. Help me decide, should I return it? Or am I being too paraniod? Seems like Amazon Sagertronics is crapshoot, u have no idea which version you gonna get and they still got 1.03 version.



I'm in the same boat as you. Ordered from Amazon beginning of the week. ProgressiveRC sold by Sagertronics and have the box sitting here. I only opened to check which version it was. Same FW 1.0.3 and the old case. Packed it back up nicely. I could have gone to the Post Office today to send it back, but its still here in the box. The fixed design has the pins for the spring perches integrated into the case vs just plastic pins going through the PCB of the charger. I suppose its always going to bug me.

Maybe Kreisl can talk us out of sending it back.


----------



## Jkuro

After buying from the same source (Sagertronics), it having it break on me in a week, I'd send it right back.
Good thing with Amazon, is returns are easy to do.


----------



## bigdaddycool

ssalb said:


> I'm in the same boat as you. Ordered from Amazon beginning of the week. ProgressiveRC sold by Sagertronics and have the box sitting here. I only opened to check which version it was. Same FW 1.0.3 and the old case. Packed it back up nicely. I could have gone to the Post Office today to send it back, but its still here in the box. The fixed design has the pins for the spring perches integrated into the case vs just plastic pins going through the PCB of the charger. I suppose its always going to bug me.
> 
> Maybe Kreisl can talk us out of sending it back.




I tried to update my 1.03 and bricked it, not my fault, I followed manufacturer's instruction to the dot. gonna return it. I did notice about the seller names. I also see another seller ProgressiveRC. But both orders I believe comes from Amazon warehouses and I read some where Amazon just mix the same items from all sellers together in one bin and send it from there. So even that could be crap shoot. Better order directly from others. dang!


----------



## bigdaddycool

kreisl said:


> I just got revised FW1.12 (still a beta?) and have tested it already: all bugs fixed! please see the list for updated statusses.
> i am also testing DEX 3.2.8 beta which needs to be made compatible with FW1.12+, since there were finally changes in the API-spec. PCLS and APP will be made compatible to the new API-spec at a later point. Once all three softwarez are compatible, the new firmware could be released i guess?




Which seller would you recommend to get the latest version? I am thinking of trying gearbest (hke are all out)...what are your thoughts?


----------



## bigdaddycool

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> *
> Dummies guide to reflash a charger after a failed flash:
> *
> Step 0: Also, if you are using windows 10 make sure that you are up to date. You must be on build 1511. (Thanks to MarioJP)
> Step 1: Get a better USB Cable
> Step 2: Remove all and any USB devices/cables from your PC.
> Step 3: Ensure no ports are in USB3 mode. Turn that off in your BIOS if you have to. Don't ask me how to do this.
> Step 4: Remove all cables from the charger
> Step 5: Holding the Enter Key on the charger, plug in the Power. *IT WILL POWER UP TO A BLANK SCREEN. THIS IS EXPECTED.
> *Step 6: Plug in the known-good USB cable into the charger, then into your PC.
> Step 7: Run the _UpgradeFirmware_MC3000_V11.exe _program. Ensure it says "My Device was Found" then probably it'll say "Some data was send". It should also show "Boot Version: 1.x" where x is probably 1.
> Step 8: Click the update button again.
> 
> 
> If Step 7 is failing (can't see your charger) then either:
> 1) You have managed to damange the built-in boot code of the charger. Almost impossible.
> 2) You have a bad PC/USB Cable/Windows install. Try another one. Borrow a friends PC.
> 
> The boot code that runs when you press Enter is hard coded. So it should always be possible to unbrick the charger by pressing enter when power is plugged in. The blank screen you get is expected, the charger is booting a very small "Boot Loader" and nothing else. This boot loader has nothing to do with the version of firmware your charger is/was running. It's burnt onto the EEPROM of the charger.
> 
> Hope this helps.




THANKS YOU!!!!! I did so amny things, use windows xp, windows x7, (all virtual). Then I got vecto error in trying to upgrde windows 7 virtual (only one which could find my charger), and it was bricked. I followed your instruction (only thing is, I kept the ENTER key on the charger deprssed all the time since it booted) and it updated FLAWLESSLY. now it went from 1.03 to 1.11+.


----------



## jaywalk

kreisl said:


> @jaywalk,
> thanks for the input! although your ideas were already considered and decided against at an early design stage, i have relisted them as (UNCONFIRMED) instead of the stronger (NOT AGREED). both ideas would 'add' to the user interface and they're 'inoffensive': they wouldn't harm, that i agree!, and most people wouldn't care or even notice. The main reasons for the missing negative sign were iirc: 1) they are uncommon from a mass consumer's perspective, and other analyzers/softwarez/products/data publishers/reviewer/etc don't do it either, and it makes direct visual comparison of capacities harder in PCLS and DEX, and 2) afaik there is a space limitation on the LCD screen with a resolution of 18chars per line: "1∂4.19 -2.00 11000" fills out 18chars already, so where to squeeze in the negative sign? Next, multiplying Wh with 3.6 gives us kJ, very simple. If we discuss units, shouldn't we then also question the units of all other quantities (capacity, voltage, current, power, time, resistance) and consider alternatives? For 1 physical quantity one can find hundreds of physical units, e.g. for energy we have: J, kJ, MJ, etc, Wh, mWh, kWh, cal, Cal, kcal, Btu, thm, Ry, Ha, eV, ft·lb, hp·hr, l·atm, erg, sn·m, dyn·cm, and more exotic ones plus the ×10³ engineering multiples. Upon every physical unit the maker's team took a decision and that was that. Since i am not strongly behind your idea, when i'd bring it up, it'd be off the table in no time. Also, since man-hours are limited, i'd rather have them work on other to-do's, see (k#71) or (k#61) which are both already existing options in GSV with 1 fixed parameter only and i'd love to see an expanded parameter range; again, most ppl wouldn't care or make use of the expanded range. Yet at least _i_'d feel motivated to motivate them to make time for that implementation task


Thanks for the extensive answer! As for part one (negative values when discharging) I understand the limitation on the main screen and wouldn't want to waste space on a minus there, but for data out over USB and the individual cell view I'd like the negative values to be negative. At least it should be consistent, at the moment all values over USB are positive, mAh locally is positive but Wh on the screen is negative when discharging? I've started doing my own plots to compare cells, and it just looks a bit strange when the current is negative but accumulates a positive number. I now mangle the data to swap this sign myself but would prefer if it was correct to begin with.

As for Joules vs any other unit, J is the derived SI unit of energy/work. I wouldn't say it is "just the same" as any other value for energy or work. It is the unit we base all the others on. If a unit is represented in it's base form or an order of magnitude as kilo or mega is just a matter of convenience and to make the data easier to interpret. I understand that Watt-hours (power over time) is in common use when it comes to batteries but I always like to encourage use of the SI units when possible. Same goes for Watts, Volts, Amperes, Ohms and Coulombs. We have a standard of units for a reason, it makes life easier in the end. 

I discourage the use of nonsensical units even when they're common or people are used to them in other areas to, take for example horsepower vs Watts. I wouldn't want to use BHP-hours even if it was common and people were used to it. To say something positive I must say Watt-hours is multiples of 1609 meters (miles) better than BHP-hours and I am glad we've gotten this far. I just think we have one last step left and we'll have arrived at our destination.

Of course I understand resources are limited and you have to prioritize. It seem to have gone very well so far to make such a great charger/analyzer and I'm looking forward to seeing it become even better!


----------



## LiteTheWay

Buy it from NKON in Holland. The postage to Australia anyway was fast. Guaranteed latest production version. I got mine there, FW1.10 installed and recessed label on the back.



bigdaddycool said:


> Which seller would you recommend to get the latest version? I am thinking of trying gearbest (hke are all out)...what are your thoughts?


----------



## aldock

I saw a response to wdriver's question on using macOS for updating the MC3000. If macOS is not usable then what alternative would one have to fully utilize software for the MC3000 other than trying to use someones Microsoft based machine (something I am unfamiliar with anyway). And what is DEX software for?


----------



## xdriver

I am trying to update my firmware and I'm getting this "Input volt too low" error. I have tried two computers and 3 cables so far, any ideas?


----------



## xdriver

I am trying to update my firmware and I'm getting this "Inout volt too low" error. I have tried two computers and 3 cables so far, any ideas?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



xdriver said:


> I am trying to update my firmware and I'm getting this "Voltage too low" error. I have tried two computers and 3 cables so far, any ideas?


Have you got your power plugged in?


----------



## xdriver

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Have you got your power plugged in?



I don't, I thought when I read the directions it said you didn't plug it in? I must have misread it. Sorry for the double post, Tapatalk said it had an error while posting.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



xdriver said:


> I don't, I thought when I read the directions it said you didn't plug it in? I must have misread it. Sorry for the double post, Tapatalk said it had an error while posting.


You must have your power plugged in.


----------



## ssalb

aldock said:


> I saw a response to wdriver's question on using macOS for updating the MC3000. If macOS is not usable then what alternative would one have to fully utilize software for the MC3000 other than trying to use someones Microsoft based machine (something I am unfamiliar with anyway). And what is DEX software for?




Run Windows in a Boot Camp partition or use virtualizaion software like VirtualBox (free) to run Windows 7. You would be on your own to locate/purchase a copy of Windows. I had actually wrote up a more detailed reply, but this forum keeps logging me out and all was lost.


----------



## aldock

Thank you ssalb


----------



## aldock

Unboxed my new MC3000 and all was good. Charged 2 new NCR18650b 3400 mAH and at end of charge the screen read on one slot 394mAH and the other 594mAH. Have I missed something in the setup?


----------



## tjh

aldock said:


> Unboxed my new MC3000 and all was good. Charged 2 new NCR18650b 3400 mAH and at end of charge the screen read on one slot 394mAH and the other 594mAH. Have I missed something in the setup?


Can you explain what you think went wrong first of all?
The fact there's ~200mAh difference, is that it? They're probably just 2 batteries with different manufacturing dates.


----------



## kreisl

:tinfoil:


----------



## aldock

I am new to all of this and would think finished charge would approach the batteries listed 3400mAH not a near 3000mAH difference


----------



## tjh

aldock said:


> I am new to all of this and would think finished charge would approach the batteries listed 3400mAH not a near 3000mAH difference


Were the batteries "flat" beforehand?


----------



## aldock

Never charged until today


----------



## aldock

I checked both of the new batteries with DMM before charging and both were 3.8v. End of charge on MC3000 screen the voltage read 4.20 on both.


----------



## jaywalk

aldock said:


> I checked both of the new batteries with DMM before charging and both were 3.8v. End of charge on MC3000 screen the voltage read 4.20 on both.


There's your answer, at 3.8V they are already fairly full. NCR18650B is rated up to 3400 mAh when discharged to 2.5V.

If you want to test the cells, try setting up a cycle program with D>C now that they're full. You can for example discharge at 1A to 2.75V (a quite safe level) and charge at 1.63A to 4.2V with a termination current of 0.07A (what Panasonic specifies). The charger will report both discharge capacity and charge to fill it up in mAh and Wh once done. Check the manual if you can't figure out the options, there are plenty of options and settings.


----------



## Gauss163

aldock said:


> I checked both of the new batteries with DMM before charging and both were 3.8v. End of charge on MC3000 screen the voltage read 4.20 on both.




According to HKJ's charts, one should have been about 3.86V(82%) and the other about 3.93V(88%) given that they charged 594mAh and 394mAh to 4.20V (assuming 3300mAh actual capacity at 4.20V).

They should not have been stored / shipped at such high capacity. Recommend storage capacity is typically 40-50% (= 3.60-3.65V for this cell).


----------



## aldock

So are you essentially saying the mAH reading on the screen after a full charge is the difference between "storage capacity" and "Full capacity"?


----------



## StandardBattery

aldock said:


> So are you essentially saying the mAH reading on the screen after a full charge is the difference between "storage capacity" and "Full capacity"?


No he is saying that his batteries appear to have been shipped with energy above recommended storage level. If his volt meter was accurate that might be true. Right now mostly there is nothing to talk about here until a proper capacity measurement is done for the cells. I'm not sure if all batteries from all suppliers are shipped at storage level (although they probably should be). However, since he was confused about the initial numbers I'm not sure if he is still a novice or just wasn't thinking since it appears all the data was available. Anyway to clear thinning up all that is needed is to have the charger run a capacity test on the current energy stored and that of a new charge as was mentioned above and any issues with the batteries or charger in this regard will be apparent. If the cells were shipped already above storage levels, he can take that up with the supplier.


----------



## aldock

Thank you StandardBattery. I didn't explain myself fully(vernacular a bit off) but you seem to have dug thru my bumbling and gave me a good starting point where I can start to understand. Really is starting to make a bit more sense. I'm just an older fart trying to learn.


----------



## StandardBattery

aldock said:


> Thank you StandardBattery. I didn't explain myself fully(vernacular a bit off) but you seem to have dug thru my bumbling and gave me a good starting point where I can start to understand. Really is starting to make a bit more sense. I'm just an older fart trying to learn.


I guess I should have also said, you probably figured it out now, that if the cell was shipped to him at storage levels, then yes the number on the display would have been the difference between the two levels, but he already noted the initial voltages of the cells were measured above storage levels. However I'd never really use any numbers from the first couple of cycles of a cell, and voltage can be a pretty rough guide for a new cell unless one knows specifically the behavior of that cell, and one needs an accurate meter to use the voltage. The meter in the MC3000 should be pretty accurate, but on this charger ideally one would calibrate it if they wanted to rely heavily on the voltage readouts. It's pretty cool can one can calibrate the charger's measurements.


----------



## aldock

Many thanks


----------



## Gauss163

StandardBattery said:


> [...] However I'd never really use any numbers from the first couple of cycles of a cell, and voltage can be a pretty rough guide for a new cell unless one knows specifically the behavior of that cell [...]



But we do know the specific behavior of such cells (see HKJ's data that I linked above). Further, (resting) voltage is not a "rough guide" but, rather, quite precisely correlated with capacity for Li-ion chemistry (and it does not depend on cycle number).


----------



## STIXXXXX

I read about getting the charger back together after disassembling is kind of tricky.. I want to get the contacts seated in the case a bit more out of the case. Possible?

edit: Hahahaha, "kind of tricky".. This is impossible!! 

Gettin´a new one...

edit2: finally got things and springs together. Contacts bended, to come out about 1-2mm of the case. Flattop LiIon no problem anymore. Happy 

edit3: After some testing the (measurement of) system temp increased significantly: when discharging 4*1A LiIon it shows up to 83°C. Before opening and reassembling it never got over 60-65°C. Fan setting 40°C.
The two SysTemp-sensors were just pasted (next) to the heat sink. This and the thermal sensors for the slots look really crappy 
Slot 4 alway shows temps about 6-7°C lower than slots 1-3.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Party on slot 4...Probably my second broken pin. I will open the charger later. The first time, it was a broken pin on slot 1. Bought on december 2015...


----------



## gyzmo2002

Yes, the pin is broken. I have sent a message to GB. I think it is the time to buy a "new" MC3000 released with tougher plastic pin(case) before the pin 2 and 3 break.


----------



## tjh

Oh dear.
I wonder how soon before this happens to mine, mine was bought about the same time.


----------



## Viking

Thanks for telling us gyzmo2002, and also for telling us when it was bought (very important info most people seems to forget).
Sorry about your bad luck.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Yes, that is what I did too - got my second one from NKON in Holland (FW1.10, recessed sticker on the back, June Production). My other MC3000 was bought in Dec 2015 too but has so far had no problems. Maybe it is only some of them ......



gyzmo2002 said:


> Party on slot 4...Probably my second broken pin. I will open the charger later. The first time, it was a broken pin on slot 1. Bought on december 2015...


----------



## kreisl

gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes, the pin is broken. I have sent a message to GB.


So sorry to hear! 

You could accept their 20$ partial refund and then fund the new case with it. If there's any problem during the process, please let us know. You are not alone.


----------



## ssalb

gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes, the pin is broken. I have sent a message to GB. I think it is the time to buy a "new" MC3000 released with tougher plastic pin(case) before the pin 2 and 3 break.



The MC3000 has a one year warranty, why would you need to buy a new one? They should either replace the charger with the fixed version or send you the redesigned fixed case at no cost.


----------



## gyzmo2002

ssalb said:


> The MC3000 has a one year warranty, why would you need to buy a new one? They should either replace the charger with the fixed version or send you the redesigned fixed case at no cost.



I was planning to buy a second charger some months ago. I always have a backup for things I use a lot. With the new case and the tougher plastic pins, I think it is the time to move. 

For the broken pin 4, it is already fixed.


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> So sorry to hear!
> 
> You could accept their 20$ partial refund and then fund the new case with it. If there's any problem during the process, please let us know. You are not alone.



Thank you Kreisl. I think it is the time to make this move. On a near future, slot 2 and 3 will surely break. For these 2 slots, the pcb trace is near the pin whole. When they will break, I will have to find another way to fix them. That's why, this time, I say yes to a new case. [emoji6]


----------



## ilgrank

kreisl said:


> So sorry to hear!
> 
> You could accept their 20$ partial refund and then fund the new case with it. If there's any problem during the process, please let us know. You are not alone.



Doesn't that case just include the upper part? Judging from the photos, it does not include the bottom part.. or am I wrong?
Thanks


----------



## gyzmo2002

ilgrank said:


> Doesn't that case just include the upper part? Judging from the photos, it does not include the bottom part.. or am I wrong?
> Thanks



Yes, the top part (upper case) only. 

A picture of the plastic pins in the upper case part. This is the first release of this charger (mine) took some time ago. 





For pictures of the "old and new" upper case of the charger: 

http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-new
#3552


----------



## STIXXXXX

My version of the MC3000 had fw 1.10 at delivery, but a horizontal heat sink. Are the 1.11 models with vertical orientation?


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> my cooler has vertical fins for my personal enjoyment and post-testing lol


ditto


----------



## gridflash

I have a new MC3000. But my Windows7 PC doesn't recognize it when connected to any of the USB ports on my PC so I can't use the PC software. 

Is there a way to read the remaining Capacity in a used battery directly from the charger? As far as I can tell it only seems to measure the Capacity that the battery receives from the charger.

gridflash


----------



## gyzmo2002

Opened a ticket with Gearbest. There is the offers they have made yesterday:

""1)Return the item back to us 
You can return the item back to us in China as per our terms and conditions indicated in the link above.
Once we receive the item, we will offer a free repair and send back the item back to you. 

2)Keep the item and accept a partial refund on Wallet (credit) 
We can offer a partial refund of your product value which is 10USD on your wallet. This amount can be used for your future orders. 

3)Resend the item with partial price and shipping fee.
We kindly ask you pay 75USD for reshipping and handling fee.
In that case, you will receive the item 10 to 25 working days after dispatch date.""

I have reply that I wanted a $20.00 refund. They have accepted it. 

""Dear gyzmo,

Thank you very much for your reply.
We hope you can have a good pruchase in the next time.
Due to your are our valuable customer. We can make an examptation for you.
We are refunding you now 20USD on your GB Wallet with extra points.
Please allow 24 hours for the transaction to appear in your account here : http://www.gearbest.com/m-article.htm?id=111 
If you get the money, please tell us.
Thank you for patience and understanding.

Best Regards
Dawn
Gearbest Customer Servive
http://www.gearbest.com/""

Ordered the upper case yesterday and shipped the same day. Simple and easy.


----------



## gyzmo2002

gyzmo2002 said:


> Just ordered a brand new MC3000 from GearBest with 8% off (coupon CPF8OFF). With my 2 units, I will be in business.
> 
> If I break the one I have when I will decide to change the upper case (if another pin breaks), I will have one as a backup [emoji12]


----------



## kreisl

salule, thanks for keeping us informed, appreciated!

By the by, is it that you really need or want 2 units, total value 200$  

or do you actually _like _the product fwiw?


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> salule, thanks for keeping us informed, appreciated!
> 
> By the by, is it that you really need or want 2 units, total value 200$
> 
> or do you actually _like _the product fwiw?



To be fair, I don't need 2 chargers. I will use them two only some times. As I use mine almost every day, if something went wrong, as it could happen with any electronic-mechanical device, I would have to use my Opus bt-3100 while waiting to receive another. Since it is very useful to me, my obsessive side has took over. 

If it would not be a good charger, I would not have bought another.[emoji6]


----------



## samgab

This is interesting. I haven't any broken plastic pins yet, but I'm getting a bit nervous about them. I see several reports of broken pins from units sourced from Gearbest... I originally ordered an MC3K from them in Dec. 2015, but they took too long to action my order, so i cancelled it and ordered from HK Equipment, who were great. I placed the order in early January 2016. I wonder if it was from a different batch than those which have been having the plastic-pin-gate issue? 

So my question is: Is there anyone out there monitoring this thread who purchased their MC3K from HK Equipment and has also had their pins snap?


----------



## bigdaddycool

Got a problem!
I got sanyo 2700mah AA batteries in slot #1, and slot #2, and put odec 2450 mah batteries in slot #3 and slot #4 (all brand new)
For first 2 slots
I put them in break in cycle and it shows waaaaaaayyyyyy over capacity for slot 2 (going through one c>d>c cycle). I would like to know if its normal or is something wrong? 

slot #2 
Voltage:1.351
Current:0.9A (0.9 charging and 0.5 discharging)
Capacity 4038.5mAh
Temp: 41.4C
time:04:43:52

WTF??? I hope i have not killed my battery!


----------



## kreisl

(posting error. double post)


----------



## kreisl

bigdaddycool said:


> Current:0.9A (0.9 charging and 0.5 discharging)


04:43:52 = 4*3600+43*60+52 = 17032
17032*0.9*1000/3600 = 4258
4258 * ~95% = ~4045
so your 4038.5mAh (taken from PCLS?) looks plausible, technically.

but your currents look wrong. correct Break_in cycle is:
NOMINAL:2700mAh, then C.CURRENT:0.27A, D.CURRENT:-0.54A

what's your firmware version? i am on FW1.12


----------



## LiteTheWay

I ordered from HKE in Dec 2015 and mine is JUST FINE so far. But I also now have another one from NKON (June production, recessed sticker on the back, FW1.10, etc). I do not really need two but this is such a great charger which covers EVERYTHING I need to do (except 9V), so I don't mind paying for another one. 



samgab said:


> So my question is: Is there anyone out there monitoring this thread who purchased their MC3K from HK Equipment and has also had their pins snap?


----------



## bigdaddycool

kreisl said:


> 04:43:52 = 4*3600+43*60+52 = 17032
> 17032*0.9*1000/3600 = 4258
> 4258 * ~95% = ~4045
> so your 4038.5mAh (taken from PCLS?) looks plausible, technically.
> 
> but your currents look wrong. correct Break_in cycle is:
> NOMINAL:2700mAh, then C.CURRENT:0.27A, D.CURRENT:-0.54A
> 
> what's your firmware version? i am on FW1.12




MY FIRMWARE VERSION IS FW 1.11. I was using .3C charge values and .5C discharge values Thought thats how everyone is doing it


----------



## kreisl

so you're not using Break_in operation mode but Cycle operation mode?
0.3C for charging NiMH should be fine.

so you're saying that in slot#1 everything was fine and you got unexpected results in slot#2?
you wrote "Voltage:1.351", where did you get this number from? A new Panasonic AA at this voltage is far from being fully charged, so i'd question the battery health first, Sanyo AA were produced like 10 years ago. 
What you could do next is switching the batteries of slot#1 and slot#2 and see if slot#1 produces the same 'unexpected' result with that questionable battery sample.


----------



## bigdaddycool

kreisl said:


> so you're not using Break_in operation mode but Cycle operation mode?
> 0.3C for charging NiMH should be fine.
> 
> so you're saying that in slot#1 everything was fine and you got unexpected results in slot#2?
> you wrote "Voltage:1.351", where did you get this number from? A new Panasonic AA at this voltage is far from being fully charged, so i'd question the battery health first, Sanyo AA were produced like 10 years ago.
> What you could do next is switching the batteries of slot#1 and slot#2 and see if slot#1 produces the same 'unexpected' result with that questionable battery sample.




will do that and get back to u


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Long time delay on replying but here goes. Just got the MC3000 and played around enough to get it working with the mobile app. Reading the manual now.



StandardBattery said:


> A C9000 with a remote display would not be as good as this charger, but it's not clear why you want a C9000 with a remote display.
> 1. Because you like pushing buttons?
> 2. You heard it was a good charger?
> 3. You want an Analyzer and a Charger and you heard the C9000 does that?
> 3. You already have a C9000 and you really like it?
> 4. You've read so much about the C9000 and all it's quirks you don't want to have to spend time learning another charger?



The question of "good" is meant as "would have all the capabilities of" or "the same or better".

Why _wouldn't_ I want a remote display on any charger? The C9000 is 10 ft away behind me on a shelf, and of course I'd like to be able to look at the iPad next to my computer and see the battery status.

1. I do like pushing buttons. Both chargers, and my BC6, have lots of button pushing. I get a bit tired of it, but it's worth it for the control. I love that the iOS app greatly reduces button pushing requirements and program number remembering.

2. I heard both are good chargers. I heard it about the C9000 in 2006, albeit I got an early model with AAA termination issues and had it replaced. I heard about the MC3000 a few days before my 1st post and some hours of research make it seem like an extremely capable charger that was kinda in beta testing. I got the post-June hardware from Progressive RC about a week ago and just opened it, and a few hours later took it over to the Win7 PC laptop in the other room and put June's 1.11 firmware update on it. So, hoping for minimal problems. Apart from the manual. That's in alpha, as far as translation. I do like some of the jokes like a blinking green meaning "happiness".

3. I did hear the C9000 analyzes, and, well, it has been doing yeoman service in that capacity for a decade now.
I want as capable a charger as possible, consider discharging (analyzer?) functions a huge bonus, and the big screen with the graph on my BC6DX-II (RIP Bantam) makes me squee! with delight. The MC3000 could use a few more pixels. 

4. I do already have a C9000 and the only problem I have with it is that I don't have two. And that it doesn't do D cells (I have only two, so the BC6 suffices), and, well, since 2006 I've acquired rather more 18650 cells than before and am comfortable enough with them to trust something other than the Bantam to charge them. Zebralights and Xtar chargers (VC2 capacity meter is so nice) accompany them. Also, I don't use many, but being able to charge more than one LiIon at a time, with data displays, would be handy.

5. I haven't read much about C9000 quirks, nor observed any in 10 years of use. Unless you count rejecting some of my cells as "high", all of which should have been recycled long ago. Or the 100mA for 1 hour overcharge on my 250mAh NiCd AAA cells being un-ideal. Or that it misses termination at charge currents that don't generate a -dV worth mentioning. I can live with those. The most annoying thing about it is having to wait so long to see voltage and mAh across all four slots.



> If you learn it's so called 'advanced mode' then you should be able to make it more powerful and much simpler than the C9000.


I'm learning it now. A lot was intuitive (to an expert). Clearly the MC3000 is much more powerful; it is by no possible means I can see "simpler" than the C9000.



> If you do get the app working the logging capability of this charger should be beautiful. Of course all this costs a pretty penny and you know the paint is not that dry on it yet.



The PC app? The iOS one works, but no logging. I used the PC app as recommended to check USB connection integrity before applying the update. It's not going to be too useful since only 3 slots are viewable on a 1368x768 laptop screen. I could use the wife's desktop PC...

$100 wasn't that bad. Less than the Bantam plus temp probe plus USB option, to be sure. I'm on a pretty tight budget but made it fit.

I ordered a 10 & 15ft USB cord from China and will play with one of those plus the MacOS DataExplorer software once they get here. I had fun with the PC software on the BC6, and did use it for some unofficial medical device battery pack characterization documentation at my last job, but the charger display has been good enough for all my usage since. Even the alkaline AA and 18650 tests I've "published". So I'll probably be OK with the display and the iOS app for the MC3000.

My main beef, and it's a big one, is that I can't see discharge cycle results until the whole program is finished, either on the charger or the iOS app. Maybe dex will allow that. Probably I'd have to export manually compute it. So, score one for the C9000 in that regard, albeit it takes quite some time clicking and writing to read off 3 cycles on 4 slots while it's still going.



> So C9000 with a remote display.... NO. A very nice charger with loads of capability and control .... with a remote App Connection.... *YES*



I'd say "YES". It does what I meant by C9000 with remote display. I can charge/discharge my AA NiMHs and see mAh, mA, and V in real time on the app. Not ideal that the display is rotated 90 degrees and half-resolution since the app isn't "made for iPad", but hey, good enough. 

Might get a vertical dock and use the phone. The iPad is mostly for movies while playing WoW, so it stays horizontal.



> It's not really the Bentley or Rolls of chargers, but it's not the VW Microbus or Triumph TR6 either. It's sort of like the Lexus... it may need some time in the shop, but you get to drive it enough to love it.



Not a big car guy, but I get what you mean. I am hoping with the newer hardware, and with the mobile app seeming stable, that it won't need shop time. Just experimentation time to fully understand. And here's hoping I don't toast it with a reversed cell since their sarcastic comments imply I'd be an idiot to do that... I may have only done it a few times in my life, but it has happened.

For a car equivalent, I dunno, any car with an OBD-to-BT adapter and a mobile app to tweak engine parameters? A Tesla, perhaps?



> _ps... there is some serious stuff in here... but mostly not... as I don't own it._



Well I appreciate the opinion. I'm much more fond of (still in love with?) the C9000, clearly, but looks like I'll be enjoying the MC3000 now as well.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



> My main beef, and it's a big one, is that I can't see discharge cycle results until the whole program is finished, either on the charger


let's say N=3. then you can see cycle results of the first cycle, when the 2nd cycle has started. you just need to switch the view from TOV to SOV.


> hoping I don't toast it with a reversed cell since their sarcastic comments imply I'd be an idiot to do that


reversed cell won't toast. yep, some sarcasm buried. might originate from the alpha, translation 

Awesome post man, thanks for it!! :twothumbs


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I thought the SOV should be able to show that, I'll have to try that out. Does that count for half-cycles? i.e., D->C x 2, want to see 1st D result during C?

1st usage was a slight failure. Discharge at 200mA to 0.9V got "stuck" near the cutoff voltage. Apparently Discharge Cutoff Current is required, and 0.01A is no good. IMHO "OFF" should mean Discharge Cutoff Current = Discharge Current. If you can't hold .9V at 200mA, then you're done. 

I've never particularly wanted a CV stage on a discharge, except maybe for an alkaline AA test, but there's a "diminish" thing they suggest for that I need to read and try.

Edit: 

The iOS app (all I've been using) doesn't have a "D. REDUCE" setting, and sets Discharge Cutoff = Discharge Current any time you adjust current. Seems like setting a different cutoff is equivalent to enabling D. REDUCE, and "OFF" really means "0.00A".

Not sure if I got "June Production". The initial FW was 1.03. But, I have silvery contacts and the display seems white not blue-ish. Sticker is recessed and has FCC CE RoHS. Maybe it's one of Progressive RC's epoxy-reinforced-post cases. I guess I'm OK with that.

Finally got it to finish a C>D cycle and see that the SOV does show Cycle 1: 236mAh alternating with Capacity: 7mAh on the same line. Good enough.

What's not great is that it stops if it hits capacity. The first time I set a 300mAh charge capacity limit. It hit the 300mAh charge and stopped the cycle program as if capacity termination was an error. Tried it again with a 400mAh limit and it worked. The cells charged to just over 300, rested, and then discharged. Dunno if that's a bug or a feature.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



> The iOS app (all I've been using) doesn't have a "D. REDUCE" setting, and sets Discharge Cutoff = Discharge Current any time you adjust current. Seems like setting a different cutoff is equivalent to enabling D. REDUCE, and "OFF" really means "0.00A".


i don't have iOS device, so can't confirm/test sorry. but it is true that the bluetooth app and PCLS are currently missing at least 2 program options (D.RESTING, TRICKLE TIME). this has been fixed in FW1.12 (beta), see (k#65). Btw, D.REDUCE:OFF means Discharge Current Cutoff = Discharge Current, while D.REDUCE:-Zero means the opposite, namely Discharge Current Cutoff = ~-0.00A.


> Dunno if that's a bug or a feature.


i am not aware of any bug regarding CAPACITY, so it has to be a feature. or what does the manual say? 


> I guess I'm OK with that.


Don't be worried at all. There is not a single complaint here, on amazon, or elsewhere about ProgressiveRC's customer service and warranty service. Not a single. They're prepared to readily help you out if a problem arises with your pre-June unit.


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Here's the iOS options. It's like it's converting D Current and D Current Cutoff here into D Current and D Reduce on the charger. Which is fine, except for OFF meaning D Reduce = 0 (which seems to mean never stop, just hold the voltage at the discharge limit.)







The manual says "In case of abnormal program termination or other ordinary error the screen will display the cause of error and emit an audible sound." and includes "Capacity Cut" as an error, advising "User-set capacity cut-off value has been reached. Set it higher or OFF."
I'm not sure I'd out-and-out call it a bug, but it's a questionable feature. It's not always an "error" to terminate on capacity, time, or temperature. Without direct battery contact, I'd probably call temperature cutoff an error, though. Thank goodness "Voltage Cut" isn't an error. Given the default timers being so short, time probably would be too. It baffles me that, on a CC charge, capacity and time are separate settings. Unless the charger can't hold the current for some reason, capacity always equals time * current (apart from small differences from ramp up times). Only annoying because I have to crank up the time cut with every program.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> [...] It's not always an "error" to terminate on capacity, time, or temperature. Without direct battery contact, I'd probably call temperature cutoff an error, though. [...]



Most chargers at the consumer level do not provide any way to specify that a termination condition is normal vs. abnormal. Capacity can be either, e.g. if you want to charge to a specific capacity then it is a normal termination condition, but if you wish to use capacity as a failsafe termination condition to prevent overcharging then it is an abnormal termination condition. 

And one might desire even further control, e.g. if any cell is overcharged or overtemperature then it would be a good idea to terminate functions on all other slots to reduce thermal load on the cell (to minimize the chance of thermal runaway). 

Ideally the user could have fine-grained control over all these parameters, and write scripts to precisely specify the termination conditions and desired actions. This level of control is probably not too far away now that computer control is appearing. Indeed, we are probably not far away from the day where we will have an open-source charger - which would offer all that and much more.


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Most chargers at the consumer level do not provide any way to specify that a termination condition is normal vs. abnormal. Capacity can be either, e.g. ...charge to a specific capacity ...(or)... use capacity as a failsafe termination condition.
> ...Ideally the user could have fine-grained control over all these parameters



I agree, though I don't think it's a "slippery slope" from asking for CAPACITY (or time for NiMH) termination, in CYCLE mode, to be normal enough to let the cycles continue. Temperature, in this sort of charger without direct contact, can only be a safety net.

A cycle run should only quit if there's a real problem. Hitting a capacity limit is not severe. IMHO.

That's debatable, I'll admit. 

What I'd say isn't debatable, and I seriously suggest as a significant improvement to be added, is a "real" cycle data display like the BC6DX-II offers.
Flipping numbers on the same status line in SOV is alright, does the job for discharge values only. Much better would be a table display with charge and discharge numbers for at least the most recent few cycles. Here's the Bantam display:







The past data is displayed, and the current cycle stage number is updated in real time. The BC6DX-II has exactly the same 128x64 pixel display so it would certainly fit. This helps with CAPACITY or TIME terminations being normal as well. If all my Charge values are "300mAH" exactly, then I know they were terminating on one of those vs a lower current limit or -dV full-charge determination.

Also I'd say a big problem for CYCLE mode is that you lose your data, which may have taken days to acquire, too easily. The Bantam has a separate mode for data review after a run ends. But, however it's done, I'd say the CYCLE data results from the last run should be viewable in SOV until a new program is started on that slot. Given how easy it is to accidentally hit STOP and abort a whole run, being able to retrieve accumulated data is especially important.

I'd also argue that if a program is paused with the app or "finished" with the stop button, it should be possible to UNDO that by resuming the program where it left off. If I'm halfway through charging and hit stop, I have to clear all my data and re-run the program. I'd like to be able to restart it with the accumulated mAH and other data starting where they were rather than reset to zero. This could be only available in a finished slot, not if the slot returned to "ready" mode.

Forgive me if I'm being presumptuous. I know I'm not the boss, or putting in the time to code, or having to allocate funds. I am, however, really excited about the charger as is, and enthusiastic about the fact that there's at least the possibility it could gain all the best features of other, similar, advanced chargers. Just being enthusiastic, not trying to demand anything.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi radellaf, wow that's some serious input there, appreciated thanks!
I've listed it without k-number and i'll have to give it some more thought before the maker can etc.

In any case it is very good to have such kind of input and feedback from the owners who already make serious use of this 1st-of-a-kind product and want to get even more serious, maybe even professional with it, cheers!
:buddies:


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> Long time delay on replying but here goes. Just got the MC3000 and played around enough to get it working with the mobile app. Reading the manual now.


So you're an experienced C9000 user that's important. I'm glad you bought the charger because you are giving it a great workout. I really want to buy this charger, but I need the kinks worked out of it first, spent too much time being an early adopter and for this I just need it to work. I'm hoping it will be a Tesla one day, but it has a ways to go yet. The good thing is it can get most of the way there with only software changes. At least they are both working with 18650 cells 



radellaf said:


> Why _wouldn't_ I want a remote display on any charger? The C9000 is 10 ft away behind me on a shelf, and of course I'd like to be able to look at the iPad next to my computer and see the battery status.


That's a pretty good reason, and may be within the usability of the software. You are within range. I had problem though on earlier models where if I left range because I was watching the charger on the phone it was a pain to get the monitoring going again when I came back into range. Poor software can quickly kill a good idea. Based on their software in the past I suspect it will take them a while to get it right.

Great that you are using it on the iPad/iOS as that is what I would like to use, so hopefully it will inspire them to improve that app and make it iPAD compatible. Since it seems picky on screen resolution maybe it works different on the A2 and the Pro than the other models? Which iPad are you using?




radellaf said:


> ... it is by no possible means I can see "simpler" than the C9000.


Well I think it depends on what "it" is... the charger or the operation. I was thinking, and still content, that if you can get a program set up that you will use often, then it will be simpler to operate as you just select the program and in theory with all the other high tech software, once it all works, you'll get beautiful detailed data on the results. So to me that's simpler than what you would have to do on the C9000 to get the same stuff.

DEX sounds amazing... this is what I'm talking about, software that really works for real activities, not just pretty screen shots.

Anyway no point in responding to much else since you have the charger and are putting it around the track. It might have to spend some time in the shop, but not so much that you won't be able to enjoy it.

Thanks for the great reports as you kick the tires, and wind up the engine!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> I really want to buy this charger, but I need the kinks worked out of it first, spent too much time being an early adopter and for this I just need it to work.


i am not sure what you are referring to, maybe you can tell us which things are bothering you in your experience.

from my part there are no further notable changes or improvements for this charger planned because the hardware is final since the June production and i have approved of it, its quality. there will be a FW1.12 update later this year, hopefully soon, to match the upcoming DEX 3.2.8 update, you've seen my animated GIF demo'ing DEX 3.2.8 beta in conjunction with FW1.12 beta.

PCLS will also get a matching update but DEX has already surpassed the functionality of PCLS.

i'm testing the bluetooth app V3.0 under Marshmallow right now. everything good.

and I am accepting that the recommended OS for updating the FW is WinXP SP3. it is only for the update process. you don't need to use WinXP SP3 every time you use the charger. it is only for the updating, 1min of your time, say once per year. and there are enough successful reports with other OS (Win7, Win8.x, Win10).


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'm having a lot of fun with this charger. It was so fun last night being able to check how my "babies" were charging while in bed listening to podcasts, and with the same device.



StandardBattery said:


> I really want to buy this charger, but I need the kinks worked out of it first



There are a few bugs, or at least un-explained ways you have to deal with the thing, but it does work. It seems like if you get a current one, the hardware issues are probably fixed. What do you want to do with it that the minor issues would affect?

I'm most miffed that Stopping a slot wipes all the data. I want to be able to read the last operation's results up until I actually start a new run on that slot. Can't really see how they'd fit that in, though. The Bantam has a separate "go get the last run's data" mode.

The biggest frustration has been how to start, finish, or stop things on one slot without disturbing what's going on with the others. It can be done, but it's a non-intuitive combination of clicks and long-presses of SNB, Stop, and Enter in TOV, SOV, DDV, and SPV modes. That frustration has driven me to keep using the iOS app. Which is fine. I'd almost rather they polish the app than the front panel if I had to pick.

In the app I have 4 or 5 program "templates" there that I can modify and run. What's nicer about the app than the charger, is I can _review_ all my program settings while the program runs. You can't do that on the charger if all four slots are busy. And, SOV doesn't show most of the parameters I want to check.



> Well I think it depends on what "it" is... the charger or the operation. ...if you can get a program set up that you will use often, then it will be simpler to operate.



By "simpler" I'd generally mean but that I could explain to a newbie how to use it in less time.

The C9000 might require more clicks, but if I want to discharge 4 cells at 100mA, it's clear what to do. 
The MC3000 could be simpler if you always use the same charge and discharge rates. If you want to frequently pick different charge or discharge currents then it's more complicated. I'm finding the only reasonable way for me to use it is what they don't recommend: "template operation". Program 01 is NiMH, 02 is LiIon, and I modify currents or voltages each time and then run the modified program. Kind of like the C9000.

Why template operation? Because there are more settings I want to keep (like Cut Time = OFF) than I want to change, and I want to see all the settings before I press GO.

I don't trust it otherwise. For example, I modified 01 to be a NiMH .20A discharge for alkalines and did a Save to [30]. Later I wanted to test a second alkaline and am glad I looked at [30] before running it. Discharge had changed to Charge for no reason. Glad I checked. I'm sure I'll use more programs and write a list as time goes on, but it's not a comfortable way of working.

On the MC3000 I'm finding navigating around it quite confusing and have stopped things I want to keep running, failed to have modifications to settings saved any number of times, and had to guess or experiment with things not spelled out in the manual. I'd like to be able to say specifically what but let me work on that. Coming to mind: the purpose of "Info View" is vague, for one, and comments in the manual about it showing "helpful or not so helpful snippets" might make me laugh at first, but the 3rd time I read it I scowl instead.

The manual defines most things but, as is common, only has a few examples. All definitions, not many actions. If you show me how to program a LiIon charge, that leaves out a lot of info I need for how to program a NiMH multi-cycle run. It's not that I want to do exactly what the examples tell me how to do, but I want to learn how settings interact in ways I can only see with several fully explained scenarios. There are also shortcut combos like "SNB and UP" I see sprinkled around. I'd like a complete list of those in a table somewhere.

The section on Page 23 under "SAVE TO" gets good, then gets convoluted, and then ends. I'd love to see that expanded enough that just by reading I can feel confident, without lots of experimenting, on how to put any program on any or all slots, given any combination of ready, empty, or running slots. 



> You are within range. I had problem though on earlier models where if I left range because I was watching the charger on the phone it was a pain to get the monitoring going again when I came back into range. Poor software can quickly kill a good idea. Based on their software in the past I suspect it will take them a while to get it right. ... Which iPad are you using?



The iOS app handles going in and out of range pretty darn well and the connection distance is all I could expect.

I would like to have a BT signal status indicator rather than just watching to see if the time count has stalled, though. It has crashed a couple of times, but one or a few force-quits have connected it to the charger again with everything working as it should. There should be a way to request reconnection without force-quitting, though. Also not sure how it works if you have two chargers.

On the phone I'm good for maybe 20 ft. It works in the whole den, in the hall, in the upstairs bedroom, but not in the kitchen. That's the BT range of a couple of speakers I've tried, as well. The iPad Mini 2 isn't working out so well because it's to the left of the MacBook and my USB3 hub is right behind it. I'd have to move it or the hub to keep a good connection. Instead of updating every second it might stall for 10 seconds, or lose the connection. Not SkyRC's fault, and shows decent interference tolerance. I bought a $4 Chinese vertical stand for the phone. Should be here in a few months.

*iOS app bug:* NiMH charge and discharge have a "Charge Cut Cu"rrent line that presumably does nothing. Also the "Delta V" doesn't allow 0mV like it does on the charger. It has an "OFF" setting, but it's not clear if that means 0dV, or disables peak detection entirely (for time or capacity charging). I'd also say that all the cut-off text is a bug. It's a full size iPhone 6 so a reasonable font size should allow "Charge Cut Current", or an intentional abbreviation, to fit.



> Since it seems picky on screen resolution maybe it works different on the A2 and the Pro than the other models?



It runs in iPhone "emulation" mode on the iPad, so it doesn't matter which iPad screen size you have. It's going to look just like it would on the iPhone.



> DEX sounds amazing... this is what I'm talking about, software that really works for real activities, not just pretty screen shots.



Looking forward to trying it.

Can anyone tell me, for something like running 3 cycles, do I have to have the PC/Mac hooked up to the charger the whole time? Or can I run the cycles, hook up the USB, and retrieve the data? Charge/Discharge data, at least, if not the whole graph.




> It might have to spend some time in the shop, but not so much that you won't be able to enjoy it.



If I have to send it back to China for weeks, or have Progressive do that for me, then I'll be a bit cross. So far so good, though.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



> undocumented ways you have to deal with the thing


yes. yes..  . no need to read the manual tbh, one could figure out the UI concept after a short while, i believe. btw _i_ did enjoy the learning by doing method 


> and have stopped things I want to keep running,


fixed in FW1.12, see (k#75).


> failed to have modifications to settings saved any number of times,


long-pressing the Enter-button is the only way to save a program. the view will be transferred to TOV, consequently, and the IMV will say something like "Saved to blah". 


> Discharge had changed to Charge for no reason.


bug? sorry can't reproduce it. For saving to take effect per slot, one must long-press the Enter-button in SPV of that slot and not just select SAVE TO [30] in the last row of SPV of that slot. with clear instructions of how to reproduce a bug, i'll be happy to swat thanks appreciated.


> is vague


because to allow for freedom of minor changes in the FW code. the original idea was not to mention IMV at all in the manual nm. the art was to compose a manual which could still be valid thru a number of FW updates and not to overload the text with even more explanatory super-specific details. thanks for your concerns.


> could be simpler if you always use the same charge and discharge rates. If you want to frequently pick different charge or discharge currents then it's more complicated.


and how do you like the Four Favorite Programs feature so far? :huh:


> I'm sure I'll use more programs and write a list as time goes on, but it's not a comfortable way of working.


DEX 3.2.7 supports the writing of program lists in TXT format. that function got improved and finalized in DEX 3.2.8. 


> The iOS app …(…)… intentional abbreviation, to fit.


I don't know when the bluetooth app gets the next revision. The app is functional fwiw but leaves enough to be desired i'd concur. I asked my neighbor to get over it or not to get held off but just use it as is. There'll be another update soon, hopefully thanks.


> do I have to have the PC/Mac hooked up to the charger the whole time?


yes like my logging DMM, the PC/Mac must be connected the whole time. the charger sends data to the USB port in real-time 1Hz and does not save the data internally to storage memory like SD card. DEX 3.2.8 has a new feature, it lets the user save the entire DEX session (4 slots, different runs) into 1 single proprietary file format *.OSD. I find it very helpful for all ambitious logging activity with MC3000.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> .... I really want to buy this charger, but I need the kinks worked out of it first, spent too much time being an early adopter and for this I just need it to work. ....





kreisl said:


> i am not sure what you are referring to, maybe you can tell us which things are bothering you in your experience.



Well I don't own this charger, so my experience is with others. I'm just going to be very picky on this one. I have a lot of things on the go and I don't want to spend time debugging software or shipping back anything for repair. I just have to many things I need to be doing so messing with the charger is too low on the list.

It was shipped with 1.03 more or less you're working on 1.12 and I still see issues and questions being raised that warrant some examination. Not to many people giving detailed usage reports so hard to say how many kinks are still left. Hardware on this one might be finished, but theirs always the chance of the Plus version in the new year like the NC2600 replacing NC2500 from sky, or the various incarnations that resulted in the C3100. I don't want good support, I want a product that does not need support.

I really want the IOS app to work well and have a lot of functionality, don't hear much about that but enough that it seems to need work. Having used the NC2500 app I know these things take some time to get right. Seems the workflows might need some polishing and the great Program feature more people seem to be saying is not that easy to work with, which is one of the big reasons for me to buy this one. I don't know if the early issues of synchronizing the programs created in the App with those created on the charger has been resolved, can you synchronize the programs entered on the charger with those in the App now? I didn't follow all the revisions between 3 and 12.

Anyway... just here reading and waiting until I'm ready and/or I feel the product is ready. It works, but not buying this for the basics, in fact I'd like it to do something it does not do as far as I can tell. See next message.

I'm happy this charger is being developed though. It's just that I can wait.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> ... What do you want to do with it that the minor issues would affect?
> .....


Well I'm a bit picky these days spend a lot of time fixing stuff that should just be working before it is shipped.... I see some of the issues as not so minor. Since my standard is closer to plug-n-play than work-around, double check, curse, check results, check charger, etc. 

What I really want to use it for I don't believe it can do. Working on a project and I would like this charger to have a 'smarter', or what I might refer to as a more relevant or applicable analysis mode. Maybe you can guess what the basis of that would be. In any case I would need to get the charger and play with it for a while see what I could emulate with software and then see if I wanted to request a change, but at this late in development it might not even be possible. 

In addition I would use it for more standard stuff as well I'm interested in how some of my older batteries have aged and I'd like to start keeping records of each charge/discharge. I'd like to characterize some cells with age data, including storage time before first use, and details like that, but this is a secondary use so I've not just gone and bought the charger.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i don't understand ****, sorry :shrug:


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> [...] What I really want to use it for I don't believe it can do. Working on a project and I would like this charger to have a 'smarter', or what I might refer to as a more relevant or applicable analysis mode. Maybe you can guess what the basis of that would be [...]



I doubt anybody will have a clue based on what little you wrote. What do you mean by an "analysis mode" that is "smarter, more relevant or applicable"?


----------



## adda

Unfortunately the Apple app does not run at my iPhone 7 (iOS 10.0.2) any more (device not found). At my iPhone 6 under IOS 9.3.5 the app works well.

Regards Andreas


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> Well I'm a bit picky these days spend a lot of time fixing stuff that should just be working before it is shipped.... I see some of the issues as not so minor. Since my standard is closer to plug-n-play than work-around, double check, curse, check results, check charger, etc.



I really think it, and the iOS app (haven't tried DEX), are well past those sort of problems. If you want to use this charger, I honestly think you're safe getting one (from Progressive or other new stock), setting up the custom programs, and getting to work (fun?). That you seem to want to use it in a way amenable to setting up programs that, once checked and verified, won't need much changing, I'd say you're set. You will have to read here or do a bit of trial and error if you run into things I have like capacity terminations you didn't want. I haven't seen a bug yet that's not easily worked around. They're minor. But, like any complicated equipment, you will want to do a verificaiton run or two to make sure the program does exactly what you want. Mostly important for cycle runs. After that, no problem. The UI takes some time to get the feel for but it's really pretty good.



> "stopped things I want to keep running" fixed in FW1.12, see (k#75).



Forgive me, I'm not sure where the "k list" is. If it makes it so a long-press of STOP is required to finish a program in SOV, then yeah, that'd help.

I'll see if I can reproduce the problem I had with program 30 changing itself. It _did_ get saved to 30, as intended, but then changed to charge. I'll carefully go through the steps again, since that'd be a significant and subtle bug if it really is there.



> ike my logging DMM, the PC/Mac must be connected the whole time. the charger sends data to the USB port in real-time 1Hz and does not save the data internally to storage memory


Ah well, thanks, good to know. It would be nice, and possible, if the charger could send what little it _does_ have stored if DEX is attached in slot-finished mode. i.e., the charger internally keeps cycle mAh data (D at least) for each cycle and a low resolution voltage graph.

The iOS app can pull the graph data even if it's connected after a run. Adding cycle data display to the app would be nice too. Easier to give me a Cycle data table in the app than modifying the charger screen displays, I would think, and bonus if the app supported copying that info as text. Letting me copy the graph to the phone clipboard would be cool too, but as is I can do a screenshot.

Just to show an alternative I prefer, here's how the BC6DX-ii displays "DDV" vs the MC3000. I think the Bantam has a little nicer layout.








> I would like this charger to have a 'smarter', or what I might refer to as a more relevant or applicable analysis mode.



Specifically what? And does DEX (which I haven't tried) not show anything you could possibly want?

I will say that, if you can leave a PC connected the whole time, the Vencon UBA 5 offers far superior ability to make multi-step analysis routines and has more options (like constant R) for discharge load simulation. Is that the smarts you need for your project? At that medical device job, the UBA became essential when the Bantam wasn't enough. The MC3000 is in the same class (if half the price) of the Bantam. The UBA is around $1000 depending on options. The software for it is a bit on the "engineer designed" side and has a UI from the Win2K era, with no Mac or Linux support. But if it's what you need, maybe get one of those used? The hardware is a bit on the old side, too, as it still uses linear regulators so a 12V supply and 1.2V cells charge at <10% efficiency. Nothing's perfect.


----------



## ormandj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> Forgive me, I'm not sure where the "k list" is. If it makes it so a long-press of STOP is required to finish a program in SOV, then yeah, that'd help.



From post #6 on the first page of the thread:

(k#75) long-press SETUP-button, instead of short-press, to finish slot prematurely in SOV and DDV (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> .... I would like this charger to have a 'smarter', or what I might refer to as a more relevant or applicable analysis mode. ....





radellaf said:


> .... the Vencon UBA 5 offers far superior ability to make multi-step analysis routines and has *more options (like constant R) for discharge load simulation. Is that the smarts you need *for your project? At that medical device job, the UBA became essential when the Bantam wasn't enough. The MC3000 is in the same class (if half the price) of the Bantam. The UBA is around $1000 depending on options. The software for it is a bit on the "engineer designed" side and has a UI from the Win2K era, with no Mac or Linux support. But if it's what you need, maybe get one of those used? The hardware is a bit on the old side, too, as it still uses linear regulators so a 12V supply and 1.2V cells charge at <10% efficiency. Nothing's perfect.


So very close... with one more guess I'm sure you would get it ... I would like constant power discharge analysis. Since most of the things I'm interested in battery performance for involve battery performance at different power levels. To me this is much more interesting and applicable to everything from power banks, regulated lights, and electric bikes and cars.


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> So very close... with one more guess I'm sure you would get it ...



And you're making me guess? Slow way to get help... <grin>



> I would like constant power discharge analysis.



That's another option on the UBA, so if you can afford it and have a PC to dedicate to running it, and the bench space to use it (not that much), and preferably a VV power supply if you'll be charging at low voltages; then, you have your charger. It also will analyze multi-cell packs, which also would be useful for eBikes or other high power applications. I think per-cell monitoring is available, albeit more than two cells would require multiple UBA units.

I'd be amused to see more discharge modes on the MC3000, and imagine the hardware is capable of it, but I doubt that'd pass the features committee. The fact that discharge mAh is reported for cycle modes, but not the often more relevant mWh, says something about the thinking behind the current features. Again, not sure if DEX would save mWh (and preferably both C and D per cycle). I don't want to keep discussing a different device on this thread, but as you're "picking on" the MC3000 for not doing what the UBA 5 is made to do, I'm glad I brought it up. I'd love a $100 UBA with an iOS app and Mac software, too, believe me.

---

MC3000: 10-40mA charge currents? How?

I see there's a line " For programs with even lower CC charging currents than 0.05A, you could try to be clever with the TRICKLE C. option." in the manual. I'd love to know what being clever is supposed to mean.

Ideally, I could set a time cut of 1 minute to get 50mA for 1 min and 10mA thereafter. But, in the designer's wisdom, time or capacity termination is an error, and (I checked) triggering an error prevents trickle charge (in End mode) from being delivered. I really don't like time and capacity being errors.

The only other way to terminate a NiMh style charge early without an error is voltage. Unfortunately, 1.47V is the arbitrary minimum setting, so that limits my ability to be clever.

Still, it did work with my test cell. It's an old, abused, rusted, "100mAh" NiCd maybe "N" cell from a $1 solar garden light. It hit 1.47V at 50mA within minutes and is now nicely C/10 charging at 10mA. If I'd set "C. RESTING" (time?) that could probably be a timed 10mA. If the cell is actually more than 30mAh in its abused condition, I'll be surprised.

FWIW, I'd do the same thing if I wanted to be an idiot and recharge my alkaline AA cells at 10 or 20mA a la the Buddy L.

*Question:* Can I really get the RAM code or is that never actually given out? I will happily buy a $5 pack of RAM cells off eBay and send the proof (to where?) if I can get the code. I'm a completionist, so I'd like to have it just so all functionality is unlocked, even if I know I won't get more than a year of use off that pack of RAM cells, and would wrap them in paper towel before putting them in this charger.

As for the program changing itself from discharge to charge bug, I couldn't reproduce it tonight. I did make a video of me trying. Here it is. If you want some examples of how to program one slot and start and stop it, without disturbing the other slots, it's a good example of that quite apart from the attempt to elicit a problem that might not exist.

https://youtu.be/6SEcNebu-CM or Dropbox DL the 13MB video file.


----------



## B-2Admirer

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> *Question:* Can I really get the RAM code or is that never actually given out? I will happily buy a $5 pack of RAM cells off eBay and send the proof (to where?) if I can get the code. I'm a completionist, so I'd like to have it just so all functionality is unlocked, even if I know I won't get more than a year of use off that pack of RAM cells, and would wrap them in paper towel before putting them in this charger.


The RAM program activation procedure has been described in this thread, actually.

1) Depress the STOP button to enter GSV (global setup view).
2) Depress the buttons DOWN, ENTER and SNB (Slot Number Button) 4.
The "Hide RAM" option can now be configured.



radellaf said:


> The iOS app can pull the graph data even if it's connected after a run.


 The iOS application can retrieve the data used to build the graph, really??? (never used it, as I don't have an iOS device) Can the Android app do it, too? I always wanted to have a way to retrieve and utilize that data and asked *kreisl* about it here, but got no relevant answer.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> https://youtu.be/6SEcNebu-CM or Dropbox DL the 13MB video file.


Hi radellaf, i will comment on your post later. In this post i wanna comment on your nice video already:
At 2:37 (and also 3:25 and 3:59), you need to long-press the Enter-button. So far, you only _selected _#1:[29] but did not _save _#1:[29]. 
At 4:35 (and also 6:31), you finally got around. 
At 8:53, you're expecting intuitively that long-pressing the SNB -when you're operating the top line- would '_Save the selected program to the slot AND start the slot AND return to TOV_'. instead, you're surprised that nothing happens. hmm. i think i like your idea very much, and it doesn't seem to clash with the present UI, which is a bonus. I'll have the maker add this harmless 'function' in FW1.12 (beta), no problem see (k#78).

Your video



definitively made me smile ymmd thanks!!


----------



## ssalb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Successfully updated to FW 1.11 using MacBook Pro running Windows 7 sp1 Home Prem 64bit. PC Link and DataExplorer 3.2.7 all working. Had to use the 32bit version of DataExplorer, as the 64bit version would not startup. 
This took a while to get the right combination of Mac OS X and Windows.


MacBook Pro from 2011 
Mac OS X 10.11.x - El Capitan. 
Logitech micro USB > USB cable 1m - Had this laying around the house. From a keyboard or other device that used it for data, not a charger cable. 
The MacBook Pro was one of the last to have optical drive and USB 2. OS X 10.11 was released in 2015. Current version 10.12 which was just released few weeks ago has no easy option to install Windows 7 only Windows 10.

Used BootCamp assistant in the Utilities folder. Which also required downloading the Windows drivers for the Mac hardware. (Apple Provided)
BootCamp partitioned my drive and made it bootable for Windows. This version of BootCamp requires that Windows is installed from an optical drive DVD. I initially tried to install with an ISO file copied to a USB thumbdrive and made bootable, but that was not supported in this slightly older version.
Before applying the firmware update I made sure that the computer was talking to the MC3000 via the PC Link software.

I've had the MC3000 for a few weeks ordered from GearBest came with FW 1.10 with the new case top, bottom is still the original version, non recessed area where the sticker is. Not sure if GearBest changed the case top but I had to take a peak to make sure. (Sent the first one back to Amazon because it was the old hardware). Just glad to be actually using it instead of worrying which version of the hardware I received.

After a few very frustrating days of fumbling through the interface, it finally started to make sense. Typical male just thumbed through the manual. If you're a geek or anal about your batteries this could be fun for you.

My little charger/battery area. Check out my ancient Radio Shack DMM.


----------



## trom

try to update firmware
download 
MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11 from http://www.skyrc.com

sreen of my SKYRC MC3000 became white and nothing happens more than 1 hour

sreenshot of MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11
http://clip2net.com/s/3D3Ko2e

tell me what to do ?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ssalb said:


> GearBest came with FW 1.10 with the new case top, bottom is still the original version, non recessed area where the sticker is.


Thanks for the shared photos, very nice!!
In may sky used up all inventory of the old bottom cases with the non-recessed label area. In june they were long gone and the new bottom cases were used during the june production. why/how your unit can have both FW1.10 and the old bottom case is inexplicable to me. has to be an absolute exception, i hope you don't mind. 

Moving on, news item:*DataExplorer Version 3.2.8 released*
Item posted on Wed 05 Oct 2016 06:23:28 PM UTC.
…
3) MC3000
- fix setting slot programs with capabilities of FW >= 1.12
- add device XML with TYPE_CONFIG as MC3000-Set to enable single file for all 4 slots, all batteries are a set
- fix handling with different temperature units and unit switch
- extend help info to describe difference between MC3000 and MC3000-Set
…​full change log here:
http://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=8702
Whoever plans to work with the 'Backup&Restore' DEX new function seriously, should wait for the FW1.12 as explained in my earlier posts. FW1.12 (or higher) is the perfect match for DEX3.2.8 (or higher, doesn't matter; fwiw i don't expect further notable changes in DEX in future related to MC3000, that's why it doesn't matter).


----------



## adda

@Kreisl

I like to test the new "Backup&Restore" feature in DEX 3.2.8 and would be happy to know whether Firmware 1.12 will be available already for download. The new DEX version informs me that not all features of rel. 3.2.8 are working at firmware < 1.12. Is there any beta firmware available ?

Thanks & viele Grüße

Andreas


----------



## ssalb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Thanks for the shared photos, very nice!!
> In may sky used up all inventory of the old bottom cases with the non-recessed label area. In june they were long gone and the new bottom cases were used during the june production. why/how your unit can have both FW1.10 and the old bottom case is inexplicable to me. has to be an absolute exception, i hope you don't mind.






kreisl said:


> why/how your unit can have both FW1.10 and the old bottom case is inexplicable to me. has to be an absolute exception, i hope you don't mind.



No don't mind, as you know the the major change to the case was on the top half with the integrated posts for the spring. The change to the bottom half looked mostly cosmetic or for the assembly workers to more easily apply the sticker, I'm assuming these are assembled by hand.

Question about input power:
At one point I started up my computer with the data cable attached to the PC Link usb port on the charger. I had not turned on my power strip that the MC3000 was plugged into. It appears that power from the computer is back feeding into the charger and it attempts to start up, but received error to check input voltage. I then turned on my power strip, figuring that once it was on the error would go away. No, had to turn everything off and disconnect from USB then turn the the main power back on then reconnect the USB cable.

Is it designed to be also powered by USB. I noticed that the input voltage can be changed in settings. Have not played around with that though.
Do most just leave their charger plugged in and on all time. I'm my situation I plan on leaving the USB cable connected all the time. So if I just want to use the computer and with the main DC power for the charger off, I see this happening again.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ssalb said:


> I then turned on my power strip, figuring that once it was on the error would go away. No, had to turn everything off and disconnect from USB then turn the the main power back on then reconnect the USB cable.


turning everything off is not really necessary. at that point one can simply press some buttons SETUP ENTER something like that and the error would go away. just to be clear, the charger needs power from the power adapter port, the charger cannot be powered by USB port. the error means that the input power of the power adapter port was too low. in order to display this error the charger needs a little current. this little current is taken from the USB port, not more.

you can leave the USB cable connected to the charger. then, if you want to avoid seeing the error, you'd power the strip first, then boot the PC.

nice black plastic you got there! compare with the plastic on HKJ's photo oo:


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ssalb;4978541[... said:


> Question about input power:
> At one point I started up my computer with the data cable attached to the PC Link usb port on the charger. I had not turned on my power strip that the MC3000 was plugged into. It appears that power from the computer is back feeding into the charger and it attempts to start up, but received error to check input voltage [...]



You may have a ground loop problem, like that described below (from here). Charger manufacturers often supply special USB cables with the ground shield removed to avoid these problems.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> You may have a ground loop problem, like that described below (from here). Charger manufacturers often supply special USB cables with the ground shield removed to avoid these problems.



That is not the case, the microprocessor in the charger is just using power from the usb connection.

Anyway a ground loop will not power anything (Except extreme low power devices), you need some power.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Anyway a ground loop will not power anything (Except extreme low power devices), you need some power.



fyi: "ground loop" is a very overloaded term in English.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> fyi: "ground loop" is a very overloaded term in English.



You did define ground loop very clearly with your images.
In industrial settings there can be some issues with power and in circuit design there are other issues. Nothing of this has any relevance to the MC3000 charger.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> You did define ground loop very clearly with your images.
> In industrial settings there can be some issues with power and in circuit design there are other issues. Nothing of this has any relevance to the MC3000 charger.


 
We'll have to agree to disagree, as usual.


----------



## bigdaddycool

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

OK, this is a FEATURE REQUEST to provide in future if it is not implemented already. To provide the ability to define trickle time after the charge is finish. For example, I would like to provide trickle time of 4 hours or 5 or 6, etc with the trickle current of .20ma, etc. Reason I ask its cause I charged my amazon high capacity AA battery(2400mH) and odec AA battery (2450 mah) and their capacity values were 2561mahm, 2522mah (for odec) and 2544 mah(for amazon high capacity battery) after the charging finished (all had been through break in cycle twice already). HOwever when I discharged them, their discharge capacity was all around 2000mah for all of them, thats real low! I was dicharging at 0.2c and charging at 0.4c. My BT-C2000 (which I return in favor of this charger) was giving me almost the same discharge capacity as my charge capacity. Only thing I can think of is the tickle chrage it would be applying (I don't remember how long).


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I can't speak for the BT-C2000 since i don't own it. No, sorry, i am correcting myself:
I don't speak for the BT-C2000 since i don't own it. That's fair i believe.
All right, that's that.

There could be various reasons why your 2400mAh rated batteries deliver 2000mAh in RL only. First off, given that your charger is calibrated nicely, you can totally trust the displayed capacity and energy values, they are very accurate. We don't know anything about health, condition, age, temperature of your batteries; you get ~2400mAh only with brand-new batteries and in a ~25°C room environment. What were the Break_in results?, that's the standard way to get anywhere near the ~2400mAh rating.

Also some of the CYCLE operation mode options will affect the capacity measurements such as charge termination point, discharge cut-off, trickle charge, resting times. It'd be helpful to see the full set of your program settings; you could use DEX (<Ctrl+T>, then <clipboard>) to copy paste the settings. A late termination point would also lead to some overcharging, resulting in higher charge capacities than discharge capacities.

Yes, maybe your batteries weren't 100% fully charged at the point when you started the -0.2C routine. Trickle charge during the resting routines would help to keep the batteries topped off. When cycling NiMH AA's, i get satisfactory results with -0.5/1.0A rates, *C>D* mode, *N=3*. And one can experiment with the termination method (MH-C9000 method, or -dV/dt method w/ or w/o trickle charging) and adjust the resting times accordingly. Next time i cycle-test my NiMH's, i'll pay attention to the charge capacities and compare.

Anyway, _timed trickle charge after CHARGE operation mode has finished_ is implemented already. Just set the C.RESTING parameter (max. 240min), then you can set TRICKLE TIME:Rest. In this case the charger will report Finish, when the timed trickle charge has finished.


----------



## bigdaddycool

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks
I am going to calibrate my charger (never done it and didn't know I could).The break in value showed the almost the accurate capacity. But I wanted to make sure its charging to its closest specification. What I will do is charge at 0.4c and when dv/dt finishes, it will trickle at 0.1c for next 240 minutes. I will discharge and then compare the values. Thanks!


----------



## bigdaddycool

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

BTW kreisl , when are they going to release 1.12 firmware version? or is the firmware 1.12 beta available to public anywhere?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

nono, the beta is not available sorry. i am waiting for the implementation of (k#78), then they can take it down the line, i wouldn't mind. i'll keep you guys posted here. from what i know the 1.12 release will come soon enough.

EDIT: (k#78) has been implemented successfully, i've tested it in the current FW1.12beta cha! So i asked them to get this FW version ready for posting on the website.


----------



## crystalfox

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello cpfers, it's been awhile since I have posted. To sum it up, been following and lurking on this long thread, charger is great and I love it . I have bought it at GearBest and was shipped very quickly, but only 2 days! the pin broke during refreshing some 18650 batteries. 

Also during ordering, I have requested to sent with the newer model.... but on deft ear and was sent the "OLD" ones instead and 
didn't expect it to break so soon...
Well hopefully my sharing to those might considering ordering one soon...at least for the moment not from GearBest.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

this charger, or let's say this thread, inspires, or let's say attracts, seemingly random ppl from all over the net, 4chan, 8chan, reddit, youtube, craigslist, etc., sweet, feeling honored!
7 years … just saying please lemme be so bold not to trust everything which is posted on the internet, unless i know who's posting 

thanks. 

bye.


----------



## aldock

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have being doing great working with my Li-ions and now am stuck on charging Eneloop Pro AA. I have read so much about NiMH and Eneloop that it's scrambling my thoughts. Will someone with charger please critique my settings?
Charge Currant- .6A
Target Volt- 1.65V 
Delta Peak- 3mV
Cut Temp- 125 F

Thank you


----------



## bigdaddycool

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



aldock said:


> I have being doing great working with my Li-ions and now am stuck on charging Eneloop Pro AA. I have read so much about NiMH and Eneloop that it's scrambling my thoughts. Will someone with charger please critique my settings?
> Charge Currant- .6A
> Target Volt- 1.65V
> Delta Peak- 3mV
> Cut Temp- 125 F
> 
> Thank you




Well you gotta tell us what is the battery capacity so we can give you more info. Right now I am experimentingto find the best setting myself. Its comes down to 2, either charge the battery at 0.1C rate for 15 hours OR charge the battery at 0.4C and after 3mv DV when its finished, trickle charge it for 4 hours. I am gonna discharge and find out which one is the best


----------



## aldock

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Sorry
2550mAH


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Been away for a bit having too much fun with the charger, a new SC600 MkIII HI Zebralight, and various new 18650s including some PKCell and Shenzhen ZhuoNeng New Energy ICRs, plus a 2000mAh "SZNH" pull from a WalMart PocketJuice power bank. Tested that for temperature rise using the 2A discharge feature. I want to test the ZhuoNeng to see if the PTC really trips at only 5A, but probably just as well I can't.

Anyway...

Trickle:
As kreisl said, I have configured 2h trickle by setting C.Resting to 240min, Trickle to 100mA, and Trickle Time to "Rest" (vs End). This emulates the C9000, though I do wish I could have a 100mA top off for "Rest" and then a 10mA trickle for "End" simultaneously. Small wish. As this has 0dV or -dV termination, a top off isn't really required.

I did find an iOS app bug regarding trickle, and maybe indicative of more. I set a 4 slot program for NIMH charge with trickle. At termination, only two of the slots were trickling. Repeated this again and got the same problem.

There's a typo, too. "Detal V" vs "Delta V"

Screencap of iOS program settings:




And "proof" of the two slots not trickling:





So, I did my next run modifying my NiMH program on the charger to add the trickle. Long press ENTER, got the Saved confirmation. Decided to double check and the program didn't have my changes! There's that bug that may be tough to reproduce.

Just to be sure: Does long press ENTER in SPV with any setting line highlighted do exactly the same thing as long press ENTER with SAVE TO highlighted and displaying the (default) current program number?

It appears both save the modified program, info display, then TOV.

So, after that, I did the SAVE TO: slots, ran all 4 slots, and all 4 batteries charged and then trickled as they're supposed to.

I also tried the up+SMB "favorites" function. Neat, but not yet useful as I'm not usually doing 4 of the same and am unsure of what each program does without looking at SPV to double-check.

Other small wish: More settings visible in SOV that you can only now check in SPV. At the very least, cell temp displayed like voltage, with a "/" and the cutoff number. Trickle settings also would be nice, if trickle is active.

BIG wish to make the UI easier:
Currently, the highlight line in SOV works just like in SPV, and that wastes at least 4 clicks trying to scroll through SOV. I can't change any settings in SOV, and right now I have to press DOWN several times to move the highlight to the bottom before SOV scrolls. Instead, there could be no highlighted line, adn the display could just scroll down starting with that first click. No big deal, but seems a worthy change to me.

My movie: Thanks for having a look, and yeah, I know, it must have been so annoying to watch me keep trying to start the slot from within SPV. I got it now, but very happy to hear that could be added. It was _so_ what my intuition said to do, at least after reading the manual enough to know a long press SNB did anything.

iOS app and graph data: Yep, as long as the slots are running or finished, the app can retrieve all the battery stats PLUS a low resolution voltage plot. No idea how many data points. I'd love for DEX to be able to pull that info without having to be connected the whole time.

Here's a screen cap. Also brings up another bug and a question.
Bug: Batt.Res. sometimes comes up like this, as 65535, even if earlier in the same charge it was a valid number. It's not consistent, though. Have had 1 slot do it and the others not.
Question: What's that gear icon under the battery symbol for? It does nothing now, but seems full of promise. How about: it lets me export the stats and graph points somewhere else on the iPhone? Maybe to an email text or CSV attachment, google doc or dropbox share, higher res image? Anything... That'd be as much or more valuable than dex being able to do it, and the data's gotta be right there in the app.






From my previous post, I'll ask again about low charge rates via trickle. How can I "be clever" and get them, other than setting voltage cutoff as low as it goes (1.47V), which means the cell has to run some time at the 50mA rate before it can drop down to 10mA. Capacity and Time Cut can't be used, as they terminate the whole program, even if it was 20 cycles worth of testing. Don't see any other way to "skip" to trickle. Long press STOP in SOV to force finish goes to off rather than trickle. Am I missing something clever?

Lovin' the charger... #1 favorite feature? iOS app.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> Here's a screen cap. Also brings up another bug and a question.
> Bug: Batt.Res. sometimes comes up like this, as 65535, even if earlier in the same charge it was a valid number. It's not consistent, though. Have had 1 slot do it and the others not.



That is a new implementation 1.11:

" * (k#54) the initial IR check should not be performed on deeply discharged protected LiIon say below 3.30V offline voltage (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED) "


----------



## radellaf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> That is a new implementation 1.11:
> "deeply discharged protected LiIon say below 3.30V offline voltage



I'm running 1.11, and these were not protected or deeply discharged. It has also happened with NiMH.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



radellaf said:


> Been away for a bit having too much fun with the charger, a new SC600 MkIII HI Zebralight, and various new 18650s including some PKCell and Shenzhen ZhuoNeng New Energy ICRs, plus a 2000mAh "SZNH" pull from a WalMart PocketJuice power bank. Tested that for temperature rise using the 2A discharge feature. I want to test the ZhuoNeng to see if the PTC really trips at only 5A, but probably just as well I can't.
> ......
> 
> Lovin' the charger... #1 favorite feature? iOS app.



wow thanks for all that serious testing. i like that you seem to know something about UIs and making them intuitive and streamlined. You show off some nice features too. Seriously though, if i understand you corrently, the current ios app has no ability to do the standard "Send To" with the normal list, msg, email, notes, etc. ? Maybe you'll dig into the Analyzer now and give us your thoughts on that? Clearly this device is actually a bit of a bargain, but i won't mind if they increase the price as they fix the bugs and enhance the ios app.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So many :huh: talking points in 1 post, thanks appreciated!
First off i don't have Apple products so i cannot reproduce or confirm reported bugs by myself. From our past joint experience with sky apps updates we could expect bug fixes yes but shouldn't wait for code expansion like new functionality, not even hope that it ever materializes 
[*]. _No expectations, no disappointment. No w***y, no trouble with w***y. Life made easy _

- Does the '65535' also show on the LCD screen (device), or is this bug on iPhone screen (app) only? I've never seen it on LCD screen. Btw the API-spec was revised in FW1.12, see (k#65) and (k#70), so maybe that has fixed the bug?
- The gear icon i dunno could be a code remnant when the structure and UI were ported from NC2500 app to MC3000 app. Afaik different team individuals had built the apps (nc2k5 mc3k ios droid). I agree that the icon should be filled in with some cool functions. Yes probably the data has to be somewhere on the phone, maybe in RAM, and i'd love to see an export from phone to *.CSV-file or to 'Send To' too. I'll bring the topic up but again see 
[*], so no fingers crossed.
- DEX is a real-time logger and like a sub-100$ digital multimeter the mc3k doesn't have SD card storage, DEX really needs to be connected all the time, cannot just pull the history data. I don't know details about resolution and history data on the app, i seldom use my phone for stuff, i'll look into it.
- I really like the "favorites" function! How do you like the GSV:Namesarameter setting? Then you might not need to look at SPV to double-check.
- i don't doubt that there could be a tough to reproduce bug regarding the Save function; i haven't encountered it yet. maybe you discover the circumstances when the bug makes its appearance. if i encounter it, i'll find a procedure to reproduce it and sky team will swat it right away np.
- Long-pressing ENTER in SPV with any option line highlighted saves the program settings according to the (parameter of the) last option SAVE TO. One does not need to long-press on SAVE TO; one can select for example SAVE TO:[28], then scroll up and revise CUT TIME, and eventually long-press ENTER on CUT TEMP. But yes, by default, SAVE TO is set to the current program number, so long-pressing ENTER with any previous option line highlighted and an untouched SAVE TO option does exactly the same thing as long-pressing ENTER on the default setting of SAVE TO.
- Your suggestion of long-pressing the SNB at the top line in SPV already made it into the latest revision of the IM1.12 (instruction manual v1.12) too, congrats!
- Saving clicks to scroll thru SOV, i totally agree, thanks!! Hopefully this nice change can be squeezed into the FW1.12 release last minute oo:, see (k#79)
- ehrm .. i don't really agree with 'more settings visible in SOV' in general. Trickle charging is indicated with a 'T', trickle settings can be looked up in SPV, sorry no such _settings _view in slot _operation _view. BattTemp: 23.8/45C bzw BattTemp: 123/160F is doable though, thanks!, see (k#80)
- you can check, in the Dummy mode the charger emulates C9000 _charging _behavior with 100mA top off and 10mA trickle. In Advanced mode one cannot set 'Rest' and 'End' simultaneously as you already know, but one can emulate C9000 _cycling _behavior in this mode. let's be content with the current implementation and not further complicate the trickle topic for anyone concerned, mc3k is based on KISS principle 
- i'm noting the ios app bugs re trickling, thanks. maybe i should get an Apple device, ha.



radellaf said:


> From my previous post, I'll ask again about low charge rates via trickle. How can I "be clever" and get them, other than setting voltage cutoff as low as it goes (1.47V), which means the cell has to run some time at the 50mA rate before it can drop down to 10mA. Capacity and Time Cut can't be used, as they terminate the whole program, even if it was 20 cycles worth of testing. Don't see any other way to "skip" to trickle. Long press STOP in SOV to force finish goes to off rather than trickle. Am I missing something clever?


...will wrap my mind around it, haven't figured it out yet either. 
anyway. you did sense a certain degree of humor in the IM1.0 writing didn't ya.


----------



## xdriver

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have the white and blue 2000mAh NiMH AA envelops and a few are reading "No Battery" when inserted in the charger. They don't have many cycles and have either been charged with this charger or MahMH-C808M with stock settings. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

r u saying that cell1 inserted in #1, #2, #3, and #4 returns a NO BATTERY reading in TOV and that cell2 inserted in #1, #2, #3, and #4 returns a 1.20V reading in TOV?

how about 18650 battery in the slots?


----------



## xdriver

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Both of these particular cells read No Battery in any of the four slots. I have others that all read properly whether low or charged, these two cells just say no battery. The charger does not beep or do anything.


----------



## kreisl

Also make 100% sure that the flat negative terminal of your battery does make connection with the negative terminal of the slider. The 'NO BATTERY'-problem is also covered in the manual, page m36 §4. You may need to lift the battery bottom a bit to ensure electrical connection.

Do you have a multimeter or voltmeter? If the battery samples have veely low offline voltage, then the charger would display NO BATTERY after all.


----------



## xdriver

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

That must be it, one reads 10 and the other 6.4 mV. I'm not on my computer or near the manual now so I'll have to pull those pages up later. Any idea if the manual discusses how to attempt resurrection or if it's possible when they are so low? Thank you.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



xdriver said:


> how to attempt resurrection or if it's possible when they are so low?


the manual suggests that the user long-press the SNB:

insert the battery in say slot#3. TOV shows NO BATTERY for #3. then press'n hold SNB#3. continue holding. the charger tries to pump some 'manual charge' into the battery, using a decreasing(?) pulsating pattern. don't be shy and continue holding. you can time for us, how long did it take for this manual method to resurrect your battery thanks.


----------



## xdriver

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Holding the SNB pumped enough into them in about 5 seconds for them to be recognized. Thank you for the information.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> (k#78) during the UP/DOWN-selection of a program number in SPV for a ready slot, long-pressing the SNB of that slot should save the selected program to the slot, start the slot and return to TOV (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
> (k#79) in SOV, no highlighted lines necessary, scrolling should start right away upon first click on DOWN-button (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
> (k#80) in SOV, show battery temperature with the CUT TEMP parameter like BattTemp: 23.8/45C bzw BattTemp: 123/160F (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)


@radellaf, this one's for you! 







Thanks again for the intuitive ideas for UI improvement!!
lovecpf


----------



## bosch

Good evening Sirs,

Please help me to handle an issue appeared at my MC3000 battery charger unit.
Slot number "4" doesn`t function at all, is dead.
The other slots - no. 1,2 and 3 function well, whiyout any problems.
Device was bought on May 2016, I sended two mails at SkyRC but till now didn`t received any answers ...
Will be possible please to give me a clue, how to fix this ?
Thank you very much for your time, in advance.


----------



## kreisl

The four slots were working fine and now the fourth slot has stopped working, is that it?
Do you think that the slot has gone defective? If so, i wouldn't be able to fix it.

You could contact your seller and ask for help. In some cases the dealer would ask for a clear video demonstration (your photo shows an OFF LED but the photo doesn't prove anything) or ask you to return the charger as part of the warranty procedure.

Sorry to hear about the problem you have with your unit! :sigh:


----------



## bosch

Sir,

Thank you very much for your time granted to my problem.
Yes, from the start, charger function well, without any problems.
I use it fine, till last week, when suddenly, one slot refuse to work.
I changed mails with the seller, a Hong Kong store, and they asked me to pay 65 USD for shipping and handling ...
I put other 35 USD and buy another new...
I make a firmare update, can be this the cause for this issue ?
Will be possible to make a downgrade, or to make a hard reset ?
Thank you very much, one more time.


----------



## scav

Hi!

I got question about Refresh Mode on SKYRC MC3000 charger. I dont know why when refresh cycle finishes I got for some 18650: Charged 3059mAh and Capacity 3106mAh. I think it should be vice versa. When I connect to Android app it shows Capacity 3059mah. I got it on all my 18650s always Capacity Value is bigger than Charged Value.


----------



## kreisl

scav said:


> I think it should be vice versa.


you're talking about Liion battery, right? whether charged capacity will be bigger, smaller, or equal to discharged capacity totally depends on your program settings. in fact, with the corresponding settings one can reach the result that discharged capacity 100% equals charged capacity, feel free to study my cycling efforts and perfect results in the smartphone battery thread.
critical settings in this regard are TERMINATION and D.REDUCE, and you'll learn that your observations level out _logically _the longer you cycle the battery. it's okay to turn off D.REDUCE but you should set TERMINATION as low as possible in order to ensure that you always start _your logics_ with a 100.0% fully charged battery.
Please could you try CYCLE C>D>C N=3 TERMINATION:0.01A D.REDUCE:OFF and report all 6 capacities? Charge and discharge rates don't matter much, so feel free to choose high values like -2.0A/1.5A. With a single liion battery you could even turn off the cooling fan.
Let's see if this program solves the mystery for you.
In any case, please don't mind the charged capacities, in general they have little meaning or no real use.


----------



## kreisl

bosch said:


> suddenly, one slot refuse to work.


very seldom in this thread have we heard someone experiencing a single slot dying. sorry if this may happened with your unit. the only hardreset procedure i am aware of is the one involving the FW updater.exe and i don't believe that it will fix your problem.

if you didn't abuse the charger and the defect wasn't your fault, then of course you're entitled to warranty service handled by your vendor. the warranty terms of your hong kong dealer are costly ouch , i wasn't aware. sky expressly asked for our support of local vendors in the news section, especially since the mc3k street price is competitive world wide so that there is no more reason to buy from overseas.


----------



## Swede74

*SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> very seldom in this thread have we heard someone experiencing a single slot dying. sorry if this may happened with your unit. the only hardreset procedure i am aware of is the one involving the FW updater.exe and i don't believe that it will fix your problem.



We have, however, heard of someone experiencing two slots dying. 



Swede74 said:


> A couple of days ago, channel #1 and #2 suddenly stopped working. (This has nothing to do with the broken pins) The screen does not light up when I insert a battery; I have tried several, NiMH as well as Li-Ion. I have cleaned everything I could possibly clean with rubbing alcohol, opened up the charger to look for obvious culprits but found none, I have tried resetting to factory settings and re-flashing the latest firmware, all to no avail. Channels #3 and #4 still work, but I can't help but wonder: for how long?





kreisl said:


> That's a new one. Never heard of that one ever before. Sorry to hear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( of course, in such a case, warranty would cover, ask your seller for a suggestion )



The remaining two slots on my charger still work. Two down, two to go? Let's hope not. I prefer to think of the glass (which is really twice as big as it has to be) as half full. 

Since I'm still using the charger, I was hoping I could ask for a recommendation for programs that will

1. Safely charge, with minimal wear and tear, the Fenix ARB-L-10-80 10180 that comes with the Fenix UC02 I expect to receive next week
2 Measure the capacity of said cell

Thanks in advance.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Swede74 said:


> 1. Safely charge, with minimal wear and tear, the Fenix ARB-L-10-80 10180 that comes with the Fenix UC02 I expect to receive next week
> 2 Measure the capacity of said cell


i measured 10180 capacity earlier this year with 1 missing decimal for mAh and Wh. you could use -0.05A as discharge rate, it will give you the highest capacity. i used 2.70V as discharge cutoff looks like.
for minimal wear and tear of liion batteries, BU (BatteryUniversity) recommends a combination of partial discharge/early recharge and no full discharge/no full charge. Samsung smartphone induces a phone shutdown at 3.5V battery voltage under load; at that point there is still nuff juice left in the battery. And when charging phone battery, xiaomi phone reports "100%" prematurely at ~0.20-0.50A charging current and continues with the CV-phase. Clearly, at the early 100%-report, the phone battery is not charged to the fullest potential.

Looking at 10180 chargers, the typical charging current for 10180's seems to be 50mA or 0.05A. To reduce w&t, set a high termination current say 0.03A and set a low target voltage maybe 4.10V. A spacer is needed to bridge the terminals, and the total resistance of battery and aluminum spacer was 600mO on my system.


----------



## Swede74

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i measured 10180 capacity earlier this year with 1 missing decimal for mAh and Wh. you could use -0.05A as discharge rate, it will give you the highest capacity. i used 2.70V as discharge cutoff looks like.
> 
> Looking at 10180 chargers, the typical charging current for 10180's seems to be 50mA or 0.05A. To reduce w&t, set a high termination current say 0.03A and set a low target voltage maybe 4.10V. A spacer is needed to bridge the terminals, and the total resistance of battery and aluminum spacer was 600mO on my system.



Thank you for the suggestions. If the built-in charger in the UC02 charges the cell to >4.15 V I will probably use my MC3000 when possible. 10180 cells are not as readily available here as, say, meatballs, IKEA Ladda cells and dreary autumn days, so sourcing a replacement might be a bit of a challenge. 

Thank you also for pointing out that using an aluminium spacer adds to the total resistance.


----------



## Trancersteve

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can anyone suggest why my MC3000 consistently terminates Li-Ion cells at 4.18v rather than the selected termination voltage of 4.20v?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Trancersteve said:


> Can anyone suggest why my MC3000 consistently terminates Li-Ion cells at 4.18v rather than the selected termination voltage of 4.20v?








also check calibration of your charger. if "4.18V" is the reading of your multimeter and you want mc3k to show 4.18V when your DMM shows "4.18V", then feel free to adjust the calibration of the charger accordingly np, i did it too. i wuv my multimeter







bam.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Btw the latest revision of the manual has been posted on sky website. It is now up to date with my beta 1.12 firmware, nice.



Great. It would be good to have a listing by page of the differences to avoid having to print out the whole thing again.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

And I also notice that on the Firmware page it shows:MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11.rar* Revised* 2016-10-19 

This revision date is the SAME date as the revised Manual dates: MC3000 Charger Manual (English V1.12).pdf *Revised* 2016-10-19

The Manual is definitely v1.12 (I checked) - yet despite the same date, the version number for Firmware is 1.11. Should that be 1.12 for Firmware too?


----------



## scav

kreisl said:


> it's okay to turn off D.REDUCE but you should set TERMINATION as low as possible in order to ensure that you always start _your logics_ with a 100.0% fully charged battery.
> Please could you try CYCLE C>D>C N=3 TERMINATION:0.01A D.REDUCE:OFF and report all 6 capacities? Charge and discharge rates don't matter much, so feel free to choose high values like -2.0A/1.5A. With a single liion battery you could even turn off the cooling fan.
> Let's see if this program solves the mystery for you.
> In any case, please don't mind the charged capacities, in general they have little meaning or no real use.



OK right now it is OK with yout settings on 18650 LiIon Battery
CYCLE 1 - 1668mAh
CYCLE 2 - 1673mAh
CYCLE 3 - 1669mAh
Capacity - 1653mAh

Moreover, in my opinion it should be some fix in firmware to indicate if we are talking about Discharge Capacity (D CAPACITY) or Charge Capactity (CH Capacity) because in this case CYCLE1,CYCLE2,CYCLE3 it is Discharge Capacity and Capacity it is Charge Capacity so it can be confusing for users. (for me it is confusing).


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> Great. It would be good to have a listing by page of the differences


i can list the changes in this post, English manual, geman accordingly:

m05: 3.85 was replaced with 4.08
m14: Dummy text was added
m15: HW Version text was substituted
m16: Soft Charge text was added
m18: a new list item was added
m24: the word depressing was substituted for pressing
m27: the word depressing was substituted for pressing
cover page: numbers like date and version were updated

:tired:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> And I also notice that on the Firmware page it shows:MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11.rar* Revised* 2016-10-19


posted firmware version hasn't changed, the "2016-10-19" is wrong date for the firmware. afaik the FW1.12 has been forwarded to the testing department and could be posted within a few weeks. Then the date typo should be correct/corrected thanks


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

While youre in TOV, up and down buttons pressed by themselves are unused atm.
It would greatly simplify and speed up the operation of the charger if the up/down buttons were used to change program for inserted batteries.
ex: up/down changes the program for all populated slots that are not running a program.
if say one slot already populated and running a program, upon inserting a battery to a free slot/slots, up/down changes program for the newly populated slot/slots.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> ex: up/down changes the program for all populated slots that are not running a program.
> if say one slot already populated and running a program, upon inserting a battery to a free slot/slots, up/down changes program for the newly populated slot/slots.


current implementation of <UP> and <DOWN> in TOV:
in TOV: <UP+SNB> = MR of favorite program, afaik no matter what state the slots are in
in TOV: <UP> or <DOWN> = enter DDV, when at least 1 slot is active
in TOV: <UP> or <DOWN> = no function, when all slots are inactive. <===

Thanks for the idea! with the current implementation, which i like, i can't see how your full idea could be added. yours seems to partly clash with the current implementation and in FW1.12 the <UP+SNB> function was fixed, see (k#74). the only condition where your idea would be applicable is when all slots are inactive. either way imho the <UP+SNB> function trumps it. for example, if all slots are inactive and set to [04], you'd need to press <UP> 7x to get to [11] for all slots, whereas with <UP+SNB#1> getting to [11] would be just 1 key stroke away.

oo:


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

in TOV: <UP> or <DOWN> = enter DDV condition should be if all slots have solid green light, all have solid red light or combination of those two
in TOV: <UP> or <DOWN> = change program condition should be if there is a slot flashing red/green, and it would change program for the flashing slots
I dont see how it would clash with anything, unless im missing something?
Edit 2:
Just to clear things bit more. The flashing red/green condition would have more weight that solid red or solid green, so if there is say 1 slot with solid red + 1 slot solid green + 1 slot flashing red/green, then <UP> or <DOWN> in TOV = change program.


And another thing...
I also find myself many times mistakenly press the down button in SOV while i need to go up, and by watching the video @radellaf made i see im not alone . The reason for this is because the settings and program parameters menus are made like a top to down list and pressing the "down" button progresses to the next item, while when choosing a program from SOV "down" actually takes you to previous item.While it might be logical because you go lower number with "down" it still is bit confusing.Maybe envision the programs menu also as a top to bottom list and change the behavior, so that "down" goes to next item(higher number) and "up" to previous item. Or posibly have an option in the settings menu to reverse the programs list in SOV.
Hope this makes sense, and can be addressed in the 1.12 firmware.

Edit:
with <UP+SNB> you have access only to 4 programs from TOV, with the way im proposing you can access all programs from TOV. Ofcourse <UP+SNB> is also usefull , and can be used to save few more clicks with the programs you use most.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Just to clear things bit more. The flashing red/green condition would have more weight that solid red or solid green, so if there is say 1 slot with solid red + 1 slot solid green + 1 slot flashing red/green, then <UP> or <DOWN> in TOV = change program.


i get your interesting idea with the 'more weight'. what about the following general example:
_before: _#1:[01]busy #2:[04]ready #3:[29]ready #4:[11]empty
after clicking 7x <UP> in TOV we would never see DDV of #1 but get the following
_after:_ #1:[01]busy #2:[11]ready #3:[06]ready #4:[11]empty

Is that it?
Hmm :thinking:. Me not likey. In this case, where the program numbers differ in the ready slots, the parallel changing of numbers doesn't feel right and actually is not right. Got a likable solution to this problem?

and the other thing ..



.. was addressed in FW1.12, see (k#79): in SOV, pressing <DOWN> means 'scrolling the page down' or 'go to the lower area of the information page' and pressing <UP> means 'go up to the upper area of the page', the same as clicking on the up/down Windows controls of a long browser page which requires scrolling. (k#79) has fixed that there is no more highlighted line in SOV. As soon as you press <DOWN>, the information scrolls down, as in a Windows screen. I hope that that mitigates the potential for your confusion in SOV. Btw what do you mean by 'program list'? In SOV there are no 'programs', we can call the lines 'items' instead, e.g. the fourth item listed in SOV is Average.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i get your nice idea with the 'more weight'. what about the following general example:
> _before: _#1:[01]busy #2:[04]ready #3:[29]ready #4:[11]empty
> after clicking 7x <UP> in TOV we would never see DDV of #1 but get the following
> _after:_ #1:[01]busy #2:[11]ready #3:[06]ready #4:[11]empty
> 
> Is that it?
> Hmm :thinking:. Me not likey. In this case, where the program numbers differ in the ready slots, the parallel changing of numbers doesn't feel right and actually is not right. Got a likable solution to this problem?



Yep, i dont like that too . So the solution would be if "ready"(flashing red/green) condition is met on any slot, on the first click on <UP> or <DOWN> all ready slots shall be set to program 1, and after that pressing <UP> or <DOWN> would go to next or previous program, and it would look something like this

_before: _#1:[01]busy #2:[04]ready #3:[29]ready #4:[11]empty
after clicking 1x <UP> or <DOWN> in TOV we would never see DDV of #1 but get the following
#1:[01]busy #2:[01]ready #3:[01]ready #4:[11]empty

after clicking 7x <UP> in TOV we would never see DDV of #1 but get the following
#1:[01]busy #2:[07]ready #3:[07]ready #4:[11]empty

after clicking 7x <DOWN> in TOV we would never see DDV of #1 but get the following
#1:[01]busy #2:[25]ready #3:[25]ready #4:[11]empty




kreisl said:


> and the other thing ..
> 
> 
> 
> .. was addressed in FW1.12, see (k#79): in SOV, pressing <DOWN> means 'scrolling the page down' or 'go to the lower area of the information page' and pressing <UP> means 'go up to the upper area of the page', the same as clicking on the up/down Windows controls of a long browser page which requires scrolling. (k#79) has fixed that there is no more highlighted line in SOV. As soon as you press <DOWN>, the information scrolls down, as in a Windows screen. I hope that that mitigates the potential for your confusion in SOV. Btw what do you mean by 'program list'? In SOV there are no 'programs', we can call the lines 'items' instead, e.g. the fourth item listed in SOV is Average.



By the description of k#79 i dont think it addresses the same thing im talking about.
Maybe i got the terminology mixed idk, but i had this in mind.
Insert battery>press snb button(slot button). Current program is lets say 25 and i need program 26... Instead of going for the <UP> button, i intuitively press <DOWN> button and go to program 24 instead and need to correct.I saw the same thing happening to radellaf in his video and he had to also correct himself. I guess going for the right side button to go for next item(higher program number) is more intuitive than the left side button. So i had in mind an option to change how the program choosing behaves, and if im on program 25, pressing <DOWN> would take us to 26 instead of 24. Imagine it like a scrolling down list , like you said.Starting with program 1 and scrolling down to program 30.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi Kreisl,

Instead of On or Off for the system beep, is it possible to have the option to adjust it? the sound is more acute on my new charger than my "old" one and they are in my bedroom. Or instead 10 beeps for each slot, 5-10 beeps for the final process of the last slot that have been started together?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> all ready slots shall be set to program 1, and after that pressing <UP>


I get your idea.
And the more i think about it and its implications in practice, the more do i come to the conclusion that the new situation would be a toss, not a clear overall improvement. now, if #2:[14]ready #3:[15]ready and i wanted [13] for both slots, i'd just do it and enjoy the process, for example 6 presses from TOV: <SNB#2><DOWN><SNB#3><DOWN><DOWN><ENTER> and be all set in TOV, and i could still enter DDV of neighboring active slots at any time. your idea would reset to [01] —seemingly an arbitrary start, why not start with [15] or [23] one may argue?—, and we'd need a total of 13 presses to be all set and still wouldn't know what's behind [13]. the 'more weight' overruling is interesting and makes sense when one inserts a new battery in an empty slot, but imho less so in other cases when i really want to see DDV and not care about any neighboring ready slots: it's more important (to me) to be able to access DDV at any time in TOV.pro's:
+ setting program number in parallel from TOV instead of SPV; sounds neat as a rough idea/starting point

con's:
- always starts with the same number, e.g. [01], no matter 'how far/close' the target program is from the current number
- why [01] to start with? seems arbitrary; either way in the general case there will be lots of <UP>-pressings involved, up to 15-16 or so
-- loss of DDV whenever 1 slot is or has become -no matter how it got there- a ready slot. basically forces the user to, for example, remove all ready slot batteries in order to be able to view DDV of the say neighboring finished slots. interesting, but me not likey. that's what we could regard as 'clashing'
- while incrementing the number, one doesn't know what's behind the number, as opposed to incrementing in SPV; this means that one needs to know by heart in advance _which number_ is the target, as opposed to _which program_: it is easier to memorize "i have saved my LiIon standard charge program in <UP+SNB#1>" than to memorize "i have saved my LiIon standard charge program in [23]"; i am not good (any longer) at memorizing numbers, i still don't know my own cell phone number other than by 1800SAFEWAY technique.
- drags other ready slots along, even if not wanted/intended.​ I have listed your idea with status 'UNCONFIRMED', not convinced/not convinced yet and also can't think of a satisfactory detailed solution. Btw no further last minute changes, so it will not make it into FW1.12.



> right side button to go for next item(higher program number) is more intuitive than the left side button. So i had in mind an option to change how the program choosing behaves, and if im on program 25, pressing <DOWN> would take us to 26 instead of 24. Imagine it like a scrolling down list , like you said.Starting with program 1 and scrolling down to program 30.


ah you meant SPV, not SOV, okok i get you. 
this topic was already discussed at the design stage and decided upon to everyone's satisfaction and conviction back then. the left nav button is an UP-button (not a MINUS or PLUS button), the light nav button is a DOWN-button (not a MINUS or PLUS button). think of the following: once you have pressed ENTER on a program number in SPV, the first highlighted option is BATT TYPE:LiIon. It is very comfortable now to navigate the option list from top to bottom single-handedly with 2 fingers on the lower right buttons: the DOWN- and the ENTER-button. How else would you go thru the list of program options? Hardly with the 2nd button and the 4th button (counted from the left). I get your point, though. Instead of "DOWN"-meaning, you'd prefer to assign "PLUS/INCREASE"-meaning to the 3rd button, which would lead to the original effect, namley going down thru the list, as in "increasing the position number in the list (w/ bottom option=highest number)". During programming in SPV the 3rd button should effect "going down" (or "going forward"), as before, right? Then which symbol should be printed on this button? Currently, a DOWN-symbol is printed on it, makes perfect sense, no need to think what i means, what i effects. This symbol cannot hold anymore imho, if the button is to mean "PLUS/INCREASE"; but you cannot use the UP-symbol (=INCREASE symbol) either, because this is NOT intuitive ('pressing on UP-symbol button and the cursor on LCD goes down?? no way!'). What about the "PLUS"-symbol to be printed on the 3rd button? Better but not optimal either: why would the cursor go down, if i pressed a PLUS-button? one argues 'because plus means progressing in the list and since the list goes from top to bottom, you'll progress down!' while the other one argues 'plus means increase and increasing means more/bigger/higher, so the cursor should go up'. Your idea introduces potential for confusion. The current implementation of button meaning and button labeling has zero potential for confusion and is even more intuitive, we can agree to disagree: with program numbers, the UP-printed button means going from [25] to [26], and with program option, the UP-printed button means moving the highlighted line 1 line up or scrolling upwards to the top of SPV.

In the end it doesn't come down imho to the question of intuition but to matter of habit, past experience (e.g. with hobby chargers), and getting used to new UI's. Simply think of the 3rd button as "The DOWN-button" (as the DOWN-symbol indicates) and not as "The INCREASE-button". Since this topic had been discussed years ago within the maker's team and* the 3rd button has a DOWN-symbol printed on it*, i don't see any need to risk getting :hahaha: if i ever pitched your idea and certainly without my own conviction. While it would be technically possible (and easy?) to implement a corresponding option in GSV, sorry i can't pitch it. Of course, anyone else feel free to shoot emails to sky about it and see how they …


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> beeps for the final process of the last slot that have been started together?


Hello gyzmo2002, increasing the selection or range of parameters in an option in GSV (or SPV) should be easy enough for the programmer.
Key Beep has the range {Off|1|2|…|15|16}, System Beep currently has {Off|On}. Would you like to have {Off|1|2|…|15|16} for System Beep too, or how exactly(!) should the range look like?
Actually you're talking about finish beep, not about System Beep. Finish beep is lumped into System Beep. In theory one could de-lump it into: 
System Beep = Finish Beep + Other Beep. And then we could have a specific range for finish beep, e.g. {Off|5x|10x|Last|Mldy1|Mldy2}. As long as we don't have a separate finish beep option in GSV, i don't see how our current System Beep selection range could comprise it, any idea? And i don't believe that the programmers will indulge in the de-lumping idea. I can imagine them rolling 

If everyone were happy enough with {Off|1|2|…|15|16} for System Beep, then i could pitch that, sure np. Won't make it into FW1.12 though, too late.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> now, if #2:[14]ready #3:[15]ready and i wantdc [13] for both slots, i'd just do it and enjoy the process, for example 6 presses from TOV: <SNB#2><DOWN><SNB#3><DOWN><DOWN><ENTER> and be all set in TOV


Correct, the way the charger works now you would need 6 button presses to get to your program. Remember that while holding the <UP> or <DOWN> pressed for more than 0.5s it starts to cycle fast through the programs, and you would get to program 13 in 2 secs. No need to repeatedly press 13 times.The way im suggesting you would need only 1 press, or posibly 2-3 to correct if you undershoot/overshoot, and all this from the comfort of TOV without going through menus.



kreisl said:


> why not start with [15] or [23] one may argue?


While holding the <UP> or <DOWN> for more than 0.5 secs and fast scroling starts, you can get from 1 to 30 in 2 secs.



kreisl said:


> con's:
> - always starts with the same number, e.g. [01], no matter 'how far/close' the target program is from the current number


- Like i said, this poses no real issue as with the fast scrolling you get to your wanted program very fast



kreisl said:


> - why [01] to start with? seems arbitrary; either way in the general case there will be lots of <UP>-pressings involved, up to 15-16 or so


Youre listing same cons twice, so ill answer twice . no real issue as with the fast scrolling you get to your wanted program very fast with 1 button press(possibly few more to correct if you overshoot undershoot)



kreisl said:


> -- loss of DDV whenever 1 slot is or has become -no matter how it got there- a ready slot. basically forces the user to, for example, remove all ready slot batteries in order to be able to view DDV of the say neighboring finished slots. interesting, but me not likey. that's what we could regard as 'clashing'


Imo DDV(thats the one with the sys temp and voltage curve right?) has very little useful info. Either way i cant think of a situation where there would be a ready slot on the charger just sitting like that.If a slot is in the ready state(blinking red+green) it means we just put in a new battery that is intended for charging and would be started(changed to busy) right away.Only other situation i can think of that slot becomes ready is in case of power outage, but again, then we would resume all programs straight away and all slots become busy and we should have no problem accessing DDV. I dont see myself or anyone else putting in a battery in a slot, slot becoming ready, and going "wtf, why cant i access my DDV, stupid charger" . Its only natural to start charging the battery straight away if put inside the charger, so no problems with accessing DDV after that. 
Remind me what other situation would a slot become ready and we would be unable to use DDV? cant think of any other.




kreisl said:


> - while incrementing the number, one doesn't know what's behind the number, as opposed to incrementing in SPV; this means that one needs to know by heart in advance _which number_ is the target, as opposed to _which program_: it is easier to memorize "i have saved my LiIon standard charge program in <UP+SNB#1>" than to memorize "i have saved my LiIon standard charge program in [23]"; i am not good (any longer) at memorizing numbers, i still don't know my own cell phone number other than by 1800SAFEWAY technique.


TOV Already displays the battery type and charging current behind the chosen program number, so if you cant remember by program name that other info will help out. Of course you would always have SPV at your disposal too if you prefer it. 




kreisl said:


> - drags other ready slots along, even if not wanted/intended.


Cant see what kind of problem this poses... If you want to charge say 2 different batteries, you insert 1 and choose program, then you insert 2 and choose program.While on the other hand this makes charging 2-4 batteries of same kind way way more faster to set up than current implementation





kreisl said:


> ah you meant SPV, not SOV, okok i get you.
> this topic was already discussed at the design stage and decided upon to everyone's satisfaction and conviction back then. the left nav button is an UP-button (not a MINUS or PLUS button), the light nav button is a DOWN-button (not a MINUS or PLUS button). think of the following: once you have pressed ENTER on a program number in SPV, the first highlighted option is BATT TYPE:LiIon. It is very comfortable now to navigate the option list from top to bottom single-handedly with 2 fingers on the lower right buttons: the DOWN- and the ENTER-button. How else would you go thru the list of program options? Hardly with the 2nd button and the 4th button (counted from the left). I get your point, though. Instead of "DOWN"-meaning, you'd prefer to assign "PLUS/INCREASE"-meaning to the 3rd button, which would lead to the original effect, namley going down thru the list, as in "increasing the position number in the list (w/ bottom option=highest number)". During programming in SPV the 3rd button should effect "going down" (or "going forward"), as before, right? Then which symbol should be printed on this button? Currently, a DOWN-symbol is printed on it, makes perfect sense, no need to think what i means, what i effects. This symbol cannot hold anymore imho, if the button is to mean "PLUS/INCREASE"; but you cannot use the UP-symbol (=INCREASE symbol) either, because this is NOT intuitive ('pressing on UP-symbol button and the cursor on LCD goes down?? no way!'). What about the "PLUS"-symbol to be printed on the 3rd button? Better but not optimal either: why would the cursor go down, if i pressed a PLUS-button? one argues 'because plus means progressing in the list and since the list goes from top to bottom, you'll progress down!' while the other one argues 'plus means increase and increasing means more/bigger/higher, so the cursor should go up'. Your idea introduces potential for confusion. The current implementation of button meaning and button labeling has zero potential for confusion and is even more intuitive, we can agree to disagree: with program numbers, the UP-printed button means going from [25] to [26], and with program option, the UP-printed button means moving the highlighted line 1 line up or scrolling upwards to the top of SPV.



Yep mixed my apples and oranges, should have said SPV .
If the charger was at a production stage and i would have to decide, then i would name the buttons back and forward, with images of arrows left and right instead of up and down.
Either way it can work with this button config too, no need for changing anything.Just re-imagine the programs choosing menu in SPV.
At current state all menus work from top to bottom and up/down buttons make sense and feel in correct positions , except for SPV, there it feels like it is reversed.
Not a verry big deal to be honest as it is a matter of getting used to like you said, but i still make mistaken presses even after a year of owning it , and sometimes it gets annoying. 

Guys doesnt anyone else mix up and down while choosing program for the slot in SPV? Cmon now, i cant be the only one


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> If everyone were happy enough with {Off|1|2|…|15|16} for System Beep, then i could pitch that, sure np. Won't make it into FW1.12 though, too late.



Yes it will be good. Now we have ON or OFF. 
With the new programming it will avoid me to put a resistor on the buzzer.🙂


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Guys doesnt anyone else mix up and down while choosing program for the slot in SPV? Cmon now, i cant be the only one



The interface is very easy to use for myself as it is now. I try to figure out your propositions but I am very confused. One way or another, if there are changes, I'll learn them.🙂


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have received my second charger from Gearbest thursday after 20 days. I also received my upper case for my first one monday. 

It seems that the new charger has the "new case" with tougher plastic pins. I have not opened it to confirm it. The charger was at version 1.10. I have updated it in a minute to 1.11 with the EXE file without hassle on Windows Pro 7 64 bits. 

I plan to cut the fan griddle like my other charger. The temperature difference between the two( fan up) is around 11-12 celsius when discharged 4 18350 at 0.65A. I did not think that the griddle would make such a big difference.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i have saved my LiIon standard charge program in <UP+SNB#1>" than to memorize "i have saved my LiIon standard charge program in [23]"; i am not good (any longer) at memorizing numbers, i still don't know my own cell phone number other than by 1800SAFEWAY technique.


Forgot to add one more thing to this. 
If you have trouble remembering the programs, you can always put your favorite in program 1-4 and you basicaly get the same functionality as <UP+SNB>. This way <UP+SNB> becomes somewhat obsolete, and we have a free button combination for future ideas .



gyzmo2002 said:


> The interface is very easy to use for myself as it is now. I try to figure out your propositions but I am very confused. One way or another, if there are changes, I'll learn them.


I feel you, with all this spv pov dps dpp talk, i also need to reread sometimes for 3 times 
I was partly talking about the way up /down buttons function, it would be a nice change but its not that big of a deal.
The more technical and the more important proposition that were discussing, to put it simply, is that when you insert a battery in the slot you change programs straight away with up/down button.


----------



## gyzmo2002

gyzmo2002 said:


> I have received my second charger from Gearbest thursday after 20 days. I also received my upper case for my first one monday.
> 
> It seems that the new charger has the "new case" with tougher plastic pins. I have not opened it to confirm it. The charger was at version 1.10. I have updated it in a minute to 1.11 with the EXE file without hassle on Windows Pro 7 64 bits.
> 
> I plan to cut the fan griddle like my other charger. The temperature difference between the two( fan up) is around 11-12 celsius when discharged 4 18350 at 0.65A. I did not think that the griddle would make such a big difference.



The new charger has the new case with tougher pins. I have just removed the griddle as my other charger. 

I will see if they run at the same temperature.


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## DeJaVu

Heres another suggestion that would have the similar result as previous one, but i guess it would be easier to implement...

When you insert a battery, you automaticaly go to SPV for that slot by default, or even better add an option to choose whether it stays on main screen or goes to SPV.

Now for making assigning same program to 2 or more slots easier, every click counts 
Currently when in SPV pressing the slot buttons do nothing, so... when you choose a program to your liking if you want it assigned to slot 1 you press only button 1, if you want it assigned to slot 1 and 2 you press buttons 1 and 2 at the same time etc. This would be ideal IMO
If its hard to do then maybe add an option to choose the default behavior "save to:slot" or "save to:slots" . So when program is chosen with up/down and enter longpressed it would assign the program to all populated slots. This way if one needs to charge 4x same type it would be done in an instant. And if say 2 x 18350 + 2 x 18650 , then you insert the first 2, choose program, then do the same for second 2 

What do you think about this?


----------



## gyzmo2002

DeJaVu said:


> So when program is chosen with up/down and enter longpressed it would assign the program to all populated slots. This way if one needs to charge 4x same type it would be done in an instant. And if say 2 x 18350 + 2 x 18650 , then you insert the first 2, choose program, then do the same for second 2
> 
> What do you think about this?


 
I vote for that one[emoji106]


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## StandardBattery

Did you check that the fans are spinning in the same direction?


----------



## gyzmo2002

StandardBattery said:


> Did you check that the fans are spinning in the same direction?



Yes, from down to up.


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## StandardBattery

DeJaVu said:


> .... .... So when program is chosen with up/down and enter longpressed it would assign the program to all populated slots. This way if one needs to charge 4x same type it would be done in an instant. And if say 2 x 18350 + 2 x 18650 , then you insert the first 2, choose program, then do the same for second 2
> ....





gyzmo2002 said:


> I vote for that one[emoji106]



+1 

back to good old BC700 days when it was easy to set the rate for all slots if you wanted that (the most common) yet still easy to have individual control. Makes perfect sense, I hate chargers that one must set each slot independently each time if they want to change something.


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## StandardBattery

gyzmo2002 said:


> Yes, from down to up.


Hopefully they didn't reduce the RPM to reduce the noise. That would be a great find if your mod reduces the temperature by such a large amount. I wish they would have done the backend as a large heatsink like a hobby charger.


----------



## gyzmo2002

When I have removed the griddle and reversed the fan in march, I expected a temperature around 70 Celsius but my charger not exceeded 60 in a room at 21 Celsius when discharching 4 18650 at 1A. I have never check it since I have received my new one.


----------



## kreisl

DeJaVu said:


> When you insert a battery, you automaticaly go to SPV for that slot by default, or even better add an option to choose whether it stays on main screen or goes to SPV.


Automatically landing in SPV for that slot (by default or by option), no. It was like that before in FW0.9x, i've been there, and the experience was horrible and went against everything which the current clean UI experience stands for. :scowl: TOV is the main view and when a new battery is inserted, there is no way that an automatic switching of the view will be allowed again (guess by whom ). makers need to take decisions so that the process can progress. that one's definitely off the table, sorry. moving forward 


> Currently when in SPV pressing the slot buttons do nothing, so... when you choose a program to your liking if you want it assigned to slot 1 you press only button 1, if you want it assigned to slot 1 and 2 you press buttons 1 and 2 at the same time etc. This would be ideal IMO


i don't get it. 
And btw pressing SNB's in SPV does something important: switching to the new slot and saving the current program number in the old slot.


> If its hard to do then maybe add an option to choose the default behavior "save to:slot" or "save to:slots" . So when program is chosen with up/down and enter longpressed it would assign the program to all populated slots. This way if one needs to charge 4x same type it would be done in an instant. And if say 2 x 18350 + 2 x 18650 , then you insert the first 2, choose program, then do the same for second 2


"add an option"? you mean adding another option in GSV just for this purpose? You want to let the user choose in GSV what the default behavior of SAVE TO in SPV will be? :sick2: Hmm. :thinking: And the motivation for this is to save 4 button presses, <ENTER> versus <ENTER><DOWN><ENTER><UP><ENTER>, is that it?
If so, what would your concrete suggestions be for the option name in GSV and its parameter names? Lemme hear hear tia :huh:

@gyzmo2002, 
congrats to the acquisition of the June build sourced from Gearbest! 
two mc3000's, really??  you must be liking the product quite a bit i guess? :kiss:


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thankyou



kreisl said:


> i can list the changes in this post, English manual, geman accordingly:
> 
> m05: 3.85 was replaced with 4.08
> m14: Dummy text was added
> m15: HW Version text was substituted
> m16: Soft Charge text was added
> m18: a new list item was added
> m24: the word depressing was substituted for pressing
> m27: the word depressing was substituted for pressing
> cover page: numbers like date and version were updated
> 
> :tired:


----------



## gyzmo2002

Regarding the difference of temp between my two chargers. After removing the griddle of the new one, when discharging 4 18650 at 1 A, fan set to 50 celsius, the max temp is 77.7 celsius and stable after 20 minutes. My old one, 64 celsius. It seems that the temp of my old one is not accurate. I will put some thermal paste on the system probe to see what is gonna happen when I will disassembled it to change the top case. 

The important thing is the temp should not go higher than 85 celsius to prevent the charger to decrease the discharge rates. It is stable to 77.7 after 30 minutes. Everything is ok.

Edit: After removing the griddle, the fan is more quiet. The fan of my new one had a spinning sound that was a little annoying compared to my old one. 

Edit 2: room temp 22 celsius


----------



## gyzmo2002

kreisl said:


> @gyzmo2002,
> congrats to the acquisition of the June build sourced from Gearbest!
> two mc3000's, really??  you must be liking the product quite a bit i guess? :kiss:



Thanks! When I will have the time, I will disassembled my old one to change the case. I wilI take the time to polish the Copper color slides. I have a backup now so I'm less nervous...[emoji12]

Could you remind me what is the best stuff to do it? I will try to find it near me or I will buy it from Amazon.

I really like this charger. I'm far to be a pro but I use it in advanced mode since day 1. I learn a lot about recharging batteries and the charger is a good way to do it. It is easy to use too. No batteries explosions since I use it lolll.🤓


----------



## kreisl

i have no idea about polishing, i never did that.






the only thing which i did was cleaning the rails and rounding off the sharp edges of the sliders.

yeah and maybe also cleaning the PCB, making it super shiny hh





good luck with swapping the upper case. 

with patience and care you can do it!! :thumbsup:


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Deoxit D5 contact cleaner🤔


----------



## Wild4fire

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

*crap*

My MC3000 just fell on the floor with the USB-cable attached... result: the micro-USB connector broke off. Well, there goes my warranty... and as it's very fine soldering, I have no chance in hell of fixing it.

Guess I'll have to buy a new one...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Wild4fire said:


> Guess I'll have to buy a new one...



OMG. 

Does the charger work apart from the broken USB-cable, got some photos to share?

With fresh 90 bucks you could try the XTAR VP4 PLUS DRAGON this time. Has no micro USB port, hence can't break.

Sorry to hear! :sigh:


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> ....
> 
> With fresh 90 bucks you could try the XTAR VP4 PLUS DRAGON this time. Has no micro USB port, hence can't break.
> 
> ....


That's supposed to be funny right?


----------



## Wild4fire

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> OMG.
> 
> Does the charger work apart from the broken USB-cable, got some photos to share?
> 
> With fresh 90 bucks you could try the XTAR VP4 PLUS DRAGON this time. Has no micro USB port, hence can't break.
> 
> Sorry to hear! :sigh:



It seemed to work just fine otherwise. Unfortunately, one of the reasons I bought this charger is the PC connectivity... 

I threw the charger away. I didn't even manage to put it back together anymore after I disassembled it, so I just thought "to hell with it". A new one has been ordered and should be here by Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll be taking care of the new one like it's a baby. I'll guard it with my life!


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Go wireless.... of course that may need a firmware upgrade for complete functionality, but what else interesting does SkyRC have to work on.


----------



## Wild4fire

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> Go wireless.... of course that may need a firmware upgrade for complete functionality, but what else interesting does SkyRC have to work on.



Wireless PC connectivity, now that would really be great! I suppose if they were to do that, it would be using Bluetooth but I'd much prefer WiFi and have it connect through my home network.

However, such a charger doesn't exist yet so I'll have to 'make do' with the MC3000.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

WiFi capability was built in 2013 mc3k prototypes and the charger still had to make use of the external WiFi module. i have that module and didn't really test it since the newer Bluetooth communication took its place.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Wild4fire said:


> Wireless PC connectivity, now that would really be great! I suppose if they were to do that, it would be using Bluetooth but I'd much prefer WiFi and have it connect through my home network.
> 
> However, such a charger doesn't exist yet so I'll have to 'make do' with the MC3000.


Adding a little bluetooth dongle to the PC would be easy, and much preferred to the 90s style of cables connecting everything. Yes it is too bad they didn't get WiFi in there I'm sure I mentioned it in the past because of the really crappy Bluetooth that the NC2500 had. Hopefully they will get the bugs out of this one and sell enough that they feel like a real upgrade product that is an evolution so they don't have to start from scratch. We need more Vappers to buy it as i feel there are not enough flashlight crazies to do it.


----------



## Wild4fire

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> Adding a little bluetooth dongle to the PC would be easy, and much preferred to the 90s style of cables connecting everything. Yes it is too bad they didn't get WiFi in there I'm sure I mentioned it in the past because of the really crappy Bluetooth that the NC2500 had. Hopefully they will get the bugs out of this one and sell enough that they feel like a real upgrade product that is an evolution so they don't have to start from scratch. We need more Vappers to buy it as i feel there are not enough flashlight crazies to do it.



Indeed :thumbsup:

By the way, it seems like the replacement MC3000 I ordered (due to me killing the other one) won't cost me anything after all. It is covered under my all-risk home insurance. They cover any damage, even if I'm the one who caused it.


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Many credit card have this type of protection.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Wild4fire said:


> Indeed :thumbsup:
> 
> By the way, it seems like the replacement MC3000 I ordered (due to me killing the other one) won't cost me anything after all. It is covered under my all-risk home insurance. They cover any damage, even if I'm the one who caused it.


Now that has to make you smile.


----------



## Wild4fire

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> Now that has to make you smile.



It did 

The new charger has already been ordered and should be here by Tuesday. Good news, as a cheap flashlight from BangGood is coming in this week and I have a Li-Ion battery I need to put through the MC3000 for it.


----------



## ediaz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi I have the same problem again I have a MC3000 but don't change my Li-Ion battery because the volt is very low 1.5.

There is any way to force this charge?.

Regards!


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ediaz said:


> Hi I have the same problem again I have a MC3000 but don't change my Li-Ion battery because the volt is very low 1.5.
> 
> There is any way to force this charge?.
> 
> Regards!


Keep the slotbutton pressed to pump some energy into the discharged LiIons.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i feel challenged


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i feel challenged



Stick with it kreisl - we love you and the MC3000.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Duplicate post - sorry.


----------



## Minimoog

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have just done a stripdown, slider de-grease, gentle sanding of the contacts, De-Oxit treatment and fan grille mod to my second unit and adding a little thermal paste to the battery temp sensors while I was in there. It was much easier than the first unit. Well worth doing as the white grease was a real dust and fluff magnet and has no real place in there.

While I was working I noted that it was REALLY easy to lever the plastic posts when removing or refitting the PCB. I knew not to of course but it took 100% concentration to move that PCB or fit the springs without stressing the posts. I still feel that the unit does not have a design weakness as such, but during assembly or transit the posts were being stressed sideways. When they are cracked, they will hold for a bit then let go, but if they are not cracked I can't see them breaking in use. Just a thought. Its good that they have strengthened them though - makes it less for them to break.

I personally think two units is perfect as I can charge 4 D cells or 8 AA's and be ready in an hour or so - no messing!

The more I use these units the more respect I have for them as they seem to do whatever I need - even dumb trickle 80mA charging for the '15 minute' Varta AAA's that cause problems when not used in the Varta charger (shows as continuity break when nearly full when charged at 0.5C). It has also saved some completely dead old Uniross AA's from 12 years ago that are now powering my DAB radio perfectly and holding 85% of their quoted 2500mAh.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



STIXXXXX said:


> Keep the slotbutton pressed to pump some energy into the discharged LiIons.


Thanks @7histology, hhh.

The slot number button pressing method however works only when TOV shows NO BATTERY for the slot. When TOV shows 1.50V and you long-press the SNB, the program in that slot will start. As we know it's an alternative way of starting a program.

@Minimoog, you too have a 2nd unit now? Wow you guys!! 
The continuity break happens as a security measure when the load voltage becomes too high w/ high charging current on a high resistance cell.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Minimoog said:


> I personally think two units is perfect as I can charge 4 D cells or 8 AA's and be ready


 My reasons for having two of them too - plus concern that my early unit might develop the broken pin issue - and having to have the latest 'June Production' version with all issues fixed.


----------



## DeJaVu

kreisl said:


> Automatically landing in SPV for that slot (by default or by option), no. It was like that before in FW0.9x, i've been there, and the experience was horrible and went against everything which the current clean UI experience stands for. :scowl: TOV is the main view and when a new battery is inserted, there is no way that an automatic switching of the view will be allowed again (guess by whom ). makers need to take decisions so that the process can progress. that one's definitely off the table, sorry. moving forward


I understand making the decision for not making landing in SPV default. 
But not even giving an option to choose how one prefers for it to work? Thats like saying "you dont know whats best for you" to the user base and potential customers.
Ease and speed of use will always have more weight in a product like a charger that doesnt need to look pretty but do its job, at least i see it that way. After all you will be returned to TOV after starting the program , right.
Click saved here and a click saved there, and you have the most streamlined experience without mashing those buttons and feeling like youre in the arcade  




kreisl said:


> i don't get it.
> And btw pressing SNB's in SPV does something important: switching to the new slot and saving the current program number in the old slot.


Longpress doesnt do anything at the moment though.



kreisl said:


> "add an option"? you mean adding another option in GSV just for this purpose? You want to let the user choose in GSV what the default behavior of SAVE TO in SPV will be? :sick2: Hmm. :thinking: And the motivation for this is to save 4 button presses, <ENTER> versus <ENTER><DOWN><ENTER><UP><ENTER>, is that it?
> If so, what would your concrete suggestions be for the option name in GSV and its parameter names? Lemme hear hear tia :huh:



Given that display is limited to 18 characters, so it is the same name as in SPV for easier understanding it can be named "SAVE TO:" with variations "SLOT", "ALL SLOTS" and "POPULATED"(or possibly READY).


----------



## kreisl

DeJaVu said:


> I understand making the decision for not making landing in SPV default.
> But not even giving an option to choose how one prefers for it to work? Thats like saying "you dont know whats best for you" to the user base and potential customers.
> Ease and speed of use will always have more weight in a product like a charger that doesnt need to look pretty but do its job, at least i see it that way. After all you will be returned to TOV after starting the program , right.


No.
no no no.
Not gonna happen. Not even giving an option here. Sorry.
As mentioned, i've been there, the team has been there, and in the end the idea turned out §$%&! and disposed of good riddance. We can discuss and consider new ideas which are unprecedented and spontaneously great. That one was an old idea and not great and was even tested hard. I've listed it for our records.


> Given that display is limited to 18 characters, so it is the same name as in SPV for easier understanding it can be named "SAVE TO:" with variations "SLOT", "ALL SLOTS" and "POPULATED"(or possibly READY).


Workable and effective idea thanks! Very easy to grasp, seems like a small thing to us but in practice involves multiple changes in code sections of GSV and SPV and increases the complexity of testing and debugging. I _could _try to submit it but it's likely to idle on their to-do list until after FW1.12 has been released. I am confident that we will get this function sometime in near future, hence i've listed it under (k#82).
:thumbsup:


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Is it possible to charge an li-ion LIR2025 coin cell at 10ma or is 100ma the lowest the MC3000 can go.

Thanks

John.


----------



## kreisl

the present firmware allows the initial current to be as low as 0.05A.
LIR2025 are not listed in the specs.
nor is LTO.

thanks

kresil


----------



## CyCle

Tell me, please: is it normal when I insert Panasonic NCR18650B to SkyRC MC-3000 it does not have contact with charger and the charger shows " no battery", but if I put battery more upward, the contact appears and the voltage is showing on display, but the battery does not have contact with temperature sensor.


----------



## kreisl

Batteries with flat top or with even recessed top like my _Samsung SDI 18650 _don't make proper electrical contact too unless i lift the unprotected cell to lofty heights of de slot:






This situation is normal enough and has been treated in the manual to full extent:





The battery does lose contact with the temperature sensor, that's correct. In SPV you can turn the sensor off with CUT TEMP:OFF. That's the trade-off with flat top batteries in this charger, or one could use a mini magnet at the top of the battery.

Note that unprotected _Panasonic NCR18650GA_ does not need any magnet or lifting.


----------



## STIXXXXX

I mentioned before, that you can bend the contacts a few millimeters out of the case to make perfect contact. I don´t know a reason why this should not be the standard of manufacturing..
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=4972268&highlight=#post4972268


----------



## StandardBattery

... already answered ...


----------



## Sargaso

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> I have received my second charger from Gearbest thursday after 20 days. I also received my upper case for my first one monday.
> 
> It seems that the new charger has the "new case" with tougher plastic pins. I have not opened it to confirm it. The charger was at version 1.10. I have updated it in a minute to 1.11 with the EXE file without hassle on Windows Pro 7 64 bits.
> 
> I plan to cut the fan griddle like my other charger. The temperature difference between the two( fan up) is around 11-12 celsius when discharged 4 18350 at 0.65A. I did not think that the griddle would make such a big difference.


gyzmo2002,
Could you tell me if the separate upper case you purchased from Gearbest has the tougher plastic pins? I tried to find out with a "live chat" with Gearbest but they couldn't understand the question, nor could they provide a picture of the bottom side of the upper case.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Sargaso said:


> gyzmo2002,
> Could you tell me if the separate upper case you purchased from Gearbest has the tougher plastic pins? I tried to find out with a "live chat" with Gearbest but they couldn't understand the question, nor could they provide a picture of the bottom side of the upper case.



Here it is: http://m.gearbest.com/led-accessories/pp_392591.html

And it has the tougher plastic pins.


----------



## StandardBattery

gyzmo2002 said:


> Here it is: http://m.gearbest.com/led-accessories/pp_392591.html
> 
> And it has the tougher plastic pins.


Wow price is now $20.


----------



## Sargaso

StandardBattery said:


> Wow price is now $20.




What was the original price, I've only seen it for $20.


----------



## gyzmo2002

Sargaso said:


> What was the original price, I've only seen it for $20.



Me too🤔


----------



## kreisl

me three


----------



## StandardBattery

Sargaso said:


> What was the original price, I've only seen it for $20.


Thought it was $12 originally. ... maybe i'm mistaking ... but $20 is &*^%$^%$


----------



## Sargaso

StandardBattery said:


> Thought it was $12 originally. ... maybe i'm mistaking ... but $20 is &*^%$^%$




Yep, it doesn't seem reasonable that 20% of the total cost ($99) is just for the upper case.


----------



## AA Cycler

Hi, just signed in to ask this question:

The TOV currently shows the voltage in X.XX format (3 significant digits, 2 decimal places). Would it be possible to display the voltage in X.XXX format (4 significant digits, 3 decimal places)? There is room on the LCD panel to accommodate the extra digit, so I just wonder if it is possible.

It would be really cool to see the voltage rise/drop realtime during charge/discharge processes. The only charger that shows the volts in such a resolution is OPUS BT-C100 (as of Nov 2016)...

Cheers,
AA Cycler


----------



## kreisl

Hello AA Cycler, welcome to CPF: it is the place for which the charger was born and where the suggestions/ideas for improvement are gathered and also realized. In the current type set resolution of 7x12 pixels/char the screen can fit 18 chars only. In fact, the original type set resolution for this screen was 6x8 pixels char but it felt more natural to use the bigger font:





So we have 18chars per row, for example for slot #3:
3∂4.99_-2.00_50000

That's 18chars including 2 necessary spaces, symbolized with underscores.
In TOV, not possible to show the 3rd decimal. 

Thanks for your interest! Are you an owner and do you like the charger so far?


----------



## AA Cycler

Thank you kreisl for your reply. I did not realize the max capacity was 50000 mAh. That requires 5 characters leaving no space for an extra digit for voltage.

3∂4.99_-2.00_50000

If the capacity went only up to 9999 there would be space to move the current 1 char to the right to accommodate the extra decimal place for voltage.

3∂4.999_-2.00_9999

For me it would be more helpful to have higher voltage resolution right now than being able to measure 10000+ mAh cells in the future.  I would personally sacrifice the capacity in favor of higher voltage resolution. But that's not my call, I guess.

The other option to get higher voltage resolution would be to display the voltage in millivolts (dropping the decimal point), but I guess that would confuse users. And making it configurable would just complicate things. I like it simple. So let's just leave it as it is. 

And yes, I am a happy owner of SkyRC MC3000, in fact I bought 5 of them. 4 out of 5 are running 24/7 cycling my AA Ni-MH cells - this is how I get data for my website - http://aacycler.com


----------



## kreisl

AA Cycler said:


> I bought 5 of them


omg lol, that's unheard of, fantastic!! 

btw since you're pursuing some serious tasks with mc3k, i do hope that you re-calibrated the units. on my units i was able to improve the ex-fac calibration by a few counts in each slot. the geman manual correctly translates the section title as "feinkalibrierung" (fine calibration) instead of "nutzerkalibrierung" (user calibration). it is also where you can see the 3 decimals on the LCD screen.

Nice website, congrats!


----------



## maukka

AA Cycler said:


> And yes, I am a happy owner of SkyRC MC3000, in fact I bought 5 of them. 4 out of 5 are running 24/7 cycling my AA Ni-MH cells - this is how I get data for my website - http://aacycler.com



That site is great! I find it shocking that the Eneloop Pro was dead after 116 cycles!

It would also be interesting see how the discharge cutoff voltage and charge current affect the life of a cell.


----------



## Viking

It's probably because he doesn't use forced ventilation to keep the cells under 35 °C as in the original IEC test that panasonic does.
He also uses a higher charge rate/discharge rates, and discharge them down to 0,9 volt, whereas under the IEC rules they are discharged down to 1,0 volt.
He also stops quite early (when the cells has droped to 80 % of its initial capacity), whereas under the IEC they continue down to approximately 60 % before they stop the test.
But as long as the cells are tested under the same conditions, thats all right.

AA Cycler, Great Site you have there :thumbsup:


----------



## maukka

All that's true, which is why I would want to see the data with different parameters. The 80 % point is moot though, since the batteries don't hold any charge after 116/123 cycles.


----------



## AA Cycler

kreisl said:


> i do hope that you re-calibrated the units.



I did re-calibrate the units. First I was wondering why are the values so jumpy for different slots, then I read in this thread the initial factory calibration is not a machine calibration, but a human calibration. Well that explained it. I went ahead re-calibrating my units against BRYMEN BM257s I've got. Not a fluke, but I don't aim for accuracy, rather for repeatability.

Just for fun I removed the bezier smoothing from one of the graphs and you can clearly see the re-calibration happened around cycle 100 on the purple line and around cycle 30 on green line.


----------



## AA Cycler

maukka said:


> I find it shocking that the Eneloop Pro was dead after 116 cycles!



The Eneloop Pro wasn't as dead as the graphs indicate. It just failed to deliver 1.5Amp without its voltage dropping belove the 0.9V cut-off before it reached 80% of its initial capacity.

Sorry for the confusion, I have re-worded my test finalizing conditions to be:



> The cell is cycled until one of the events occur
> 
> 
> the capacity falls below 80% of the initial value. (For graphing purposes the cell is cycled until 64% of its initial capacity)
> the cell fails to deliver the required current without sagging below 0.9V - seen on graphs as an abrupt drop to 0 mAh.



BTW, sorry for hijacking this thread. We should move back to the MC3000 topic


----------



## kreisl

the other day i got the Smini olight which came with a free CR123A battery. it is a *primary *lithium battery with 3V nominal voltage and 1600mAh nominal capacity. a pdf datasheet was not available to me, so i was not sure which CUT VOLT would be appropriate. the mc3k battery type LiFe allows discharging to 2.00V, not any further. so i used that in my first test, then let the battery rest for 12hrs in my pants pockets where its voltage recovered to over 2.6V, and finally did the same discharge test but this time with activated D.REDUCE:-0.01A. After 24h the current was below 10mA and the program did not finish for known technical reasons (it would have finished with a *rechargeable *lithium battery!), so i switched the view to SOV and long-pressed the STOP-button to induce the program finish. Current dropped to 0mA duh and voltage has been slowly recovering since. Per default DEX records another 15min after the SNB has turned green, which i find neat. It is not possible to discharge a 2.xxV battery with the NiZn or NiCd mc3k battery type for example for the purpose of discharging it to 0.50V, so i was stuck with the 2.00V limit of LiFe. No biggo, since the graphs indicate that i managed to deplete the battery very well. (After yet another 24h the voltage has recovered to 2.317V and the Smini can still produce light on the lower levels.)











Let's feel free to add the numbers.
Total capacity ≥ (1517.2+222.4)mAh = *1739.6mAh*
Total energy ≥ (4.086+0.453)Wh = *4.539Wh*

Point is, while these numbers were measured with a -0.20A initial discharge current, they'd be pretty much the same with a -1.20A initial discharge current as long as you use the D.REDUCE option too. Also interesting to know, the D.REDUCE red curve would look smoother, i.e. less zittrig, when the CUT VOLT parameter is chosen higher say 2.6V where the battery voltage is more stable under load, less volatile. At 2.0V the CR123A battery voltage under load becomes volatile, less stable and drops fast at a load. That's where the current regulation gets challenged and we see the current not smoothly being reduced.

Also note that the total capacity&energy at a constant 200mA discharge, i.e. without discharge reduce, from OOTB voltage down to say 0.5V or even 0.0V will be _less _than 1739.6 and 4.539. You know why.


----------



## AA Cycler

Hi All,

I would like to use the CC-CV algorithm for charging NiMH AA cells instead of the traditional CC charging with -dV termination. I know CC-CV is not intended for NiMH, but I am very curios of the result and would really like to try it out.

According to the MC3000 manual NiZn uses CC-CV for charging, but the max charge voltage is too high for NiMH. So I cannot use that chemistry.

Is there a way to define a custom "chemistry" or CC-CV algorithm with custom max voltages in MC3000? Or is there any other way to accomplish what I want using my MC3000 charger?

Thanks a lot,
Cheers,
AA Cycler


----------



## kreisl

AA Cycler said:


> Or is there any other way to accomplish what I want using my MC3000 charger?


You could try BATT TYPE: RAM


----------



## kreisl

FW1.12 announced on NEWS page:
http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=news/content&news_id=192

i've installed it thru my geman winxp system and premium usb data cable = with no problems whatsoever






see 'the list'  for details on the bug fixes.
this firmware update is considered minor and optional and useful for limited audience only (like ambitious DEX users), not everyone will want or need it. there are no plans to release it to factory production.

_webpage online download availability only_


----------



## maukka

Nice patch!

Today one of the plastic posts broke on my "first batch" MC3000. Lasted surprisingly long..


----------



## magellan

AA Cycler said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I would like to use the CC-CV algorithm for charging NiMH AA cells instead of the traditional CC charging with -dV termination. I know CC-CV is not intended for NiMH, but I am very curios of the result and would really like to try it out.
> 
> According to the MC3000 manual NiZn uses CC-CV for charging, but the max charge voltage is too high for NiMH. So I cannot use that chemistry.
> 
> Is there a way to define a custom "chemistry" or CC-CV algorithm with custom max voltages in MC3000? Or is there any other way to accomplish what I want using my MC3000 charger?
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> Cheers,
> AA Cycler



I'm no expert but you could try soldering in a voltage dropping resister for the NiZn chemistry to limit the maximum voltage, or maybe a couple of alligator clips would allow you to hook it up.


----------



## Sargaso

kreisl said:


> FW1.12 announced on NEWS page:
> http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=news/content&news_id=192
> 
> i've installed it thru my geman winxp system and premium usb data cable = with no problems whatsoever
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see 'the list'  for details on the bug fixes.
> this firmware update is considered minor and optional and useful for limited audience only (like ambitious DEX users), not everyone will want or need it. there are no plans to release it to factory production.
> 
> _webpage online download availability only_





I just installed v1.12 from a Windows 10 system without any problems. The instructions state that they have not approved any OS except WinXP SP3 but Win 10 works.


----------



## StandardBattery

Sargaso said:


> I just installed v1.12 from a Windows 10 system without any problems. The instructions state that they have not approved any OS except WinXP SP3 but Win 10 works.


For some people.


----------



## Sargaso

StandardBattery said:


> For some people.




What went wrong?


----------



## STIXXXXX

No problems with Windows 10 Pro 64 - beware of losing your settings and programs when updating..


----------



## taxtax

I have just flashed the 1.12 firmware, and now when screensaver runs, the annoying beeps are permanent (even with "System Beep" and "Key Beep" to off)
The only solution to set the screensaver to off.
I wonder who would like to have sounds when charger is idle


----------



## CyCle

I also updated on Win 10 x64 without any problems!


----------



## kreisl

Sargaso said:


> StandardBattery said:
> 
> 
> 
> For some people.
> 
> 
> 
> What went wrong?
Click to expand...

It means that even though some Win10 people are successful with the upgrading procedure, it is not the approved way because other Win10 people run into problems during the procedure. Using WinXP for the procedure is less prone to encountering problems during the procedure. Congrats to the successful Win10 people, lucky them 


taxtax said:


> I have just flashed the 1.12 firmware, and now when screensaver runs, the annoying beeps


omg, true that. i find this newly introduced behavior surprising and amusing hh thanks for the finding, appreciated. i'll ask if it's a bug or a feature  (k#83)


maukka said:


> Today one of the plastic posts broke on my "first batch" MC3000.


do you resent or can you forgive?


----------



## CLB

For the benefit of those who have been asking where to obtain the newest version, chargers from the June production run are for sale by DC Workshop on Amazon. Prior to ordering I sent a query to DC Workshop, and the response was that they had received their inventory on Nov. 1, direct from SkyRC. The charger I received has the label recess on the bottom, and firmware 1.10, hardware 1.4+.


----------



## StandardBattery

CLB said:


> For the benefit of those who have been asking where to obtain the newest version, chargers from the June production run are for sale by DC Workshop on Amazon. Prior to ordering I sent a query to DC Workshop, and the response was that they had received their inventory on Nov. 1, direct from SkyRC. The charger I received has the label recess on the bottom, and firmware 1.10, hardware 1.4+.


*Good to know. Thanks!* 

Maybe now it will live up to it's billing  "The World's *Most Joyful *Round Battery Charger .... tailored to a *sweet* battery tray ....."

Who can write crap like that


----------



## kreisl

Chinese company man. :nana:


----------



## Vasilije

Hello everyone, my first post with one small problem.


MC3000 Monitor V1.02 will not change the settings on the charger with FW version 1.12, still remains the setting (default Lion) even when the slots NiCd. Returning to the FW V1.11 everything is working properly. After FW update from V1.11 to 1.12 done the factory reset, and then the error remained. Sorry for my English, I hope that we can understand.


----------



## AA Cycler

kreisl said:


> You could try BATT TYPE: RAM



Good idea. I unlocked the RAM chemistry and tested it. It is almost what I wanted, but not exactly. From what I see the RAM algorithm charges the cell for 7 seconds, then rests for 3 sec, charges for 7 sec, rests for 3 sec, etc. I think this is MC3000's implementation of "pulse" charging. For my tests I will just consider it PWM with 70% duty cycle (unfortunately this lowers my intended 3.0A to 2.1A)

Originally, using 3.0A-1.50V CC-CV algorithm with 300mA cut-off, I wanted to find out
- how long it takes for AA NiMH cells to charge (and how the time depends on cell's internal resistance)
- the cell would likely end up undercharged compared to 0dV baseline (but how much, 80%, 85%, 90%, 95%, 98%?)
- how hot the cell gets during charging

I think I will just run some tests with 3.0A setting and consider it 2.1A. I wish the NiZn type had lower limits so I could use it for my 3.0A NiMH tests


----------



## Minimoog

AA Cycler said:


> Good idea. I unlocked the RAM chemistry and tested it. It is almost what I wanted, but not exactly. From what I see the RAM algorithm charges the cell for 7 seconds, then rests for 3 sec, charges for 7 sec, rests for 3 sec, etc. I think this is MC3000's implementation of "pulse" charging. For my tests I will just consider it PWM with 70% duty cycle (unfortunately this lowers my intended 3.0A to 2.1A)
> 
> Originally, using 3.0A-1.50V CC-CV algorithm with 300mA cut-off, I wanted to find out
> - how long it takes for AA NiMH cells to charge (and how the time depends on cell's internal resistance)
> - the cell would likely end up undercharged compared to 0dV baseline (but how much, 80%, 85%, 90%, 95%, 98%?)
> - how hot the cell gets during charging
> 
> I think I will just run some tests with 3.0A setting and consider it 2.1A. I wish the NiZn type had lower limits so I could use it for my 3.0A NiMH tests



How about making your own rig using a battery holder and bench PSU? You could set to CV mode and set to 1.5 and wait until current dropped to near zero.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

A reminder for those flashing v1.12 not to freak out if it doesn't work the first time.
Just follow this guide.



tjh said:


> Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> *
> Dummies guide to reflash a charger after a failed flash:
> *
> Step 0: Also, if you are using windows 10 make sure that you are up to date. You must be on build 1511. (Thanks to MarioJP)
> Step 1: Get a better USB Cable
> Step 2: Remove all and any USB devices/cables from your PC.
> Step 3: Ensure no ports are in USB3 mode. Turn that off in your BIOS if you have to. Don't ask me how to do this.
> Step 4: Remove all cables from the charger
> Step 5: Holding the Enter Key on the charger, plug in the Power. *IT WILL POWER UP TO A BLANK SCREEN. THIS IS EXPECTED.
> *Step 6: Plug in the known-good USB cable into the charger, then into your PC.
> Step 7: Run the _UpgradeFirmware_MC3000_V11.exe _program. Ensure it says "My Device was Found" then probably it'll say "Some data was send". It should also show "Boot Version: 1.x" where x is probably 1.
> Step 8: Click the update button again.
> 
> 
> If Step 7 is failing (can't see your charger) then either:
> 1) You have managed to damange the built-in boot code of the charger. Almost impossible.
> 2) You have a bad PC/USB Cable/Windows install. Try another one. Borrow a friends PC.
> 
> The boot code that runs when you press Enter is hard coded. So it should always be possible to unbrick the charger by pressing enter when power is plugged in. The blank screen you get is expected, the charger is booting a very small "Boot Loader" and nothing else. This boot loader has nothing to do with the version of firmware your charger is/was running. It's burnt onto the EEPROM of the charger.
> 
> Hope this helps.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i've found a youtube which demonstrates re-assembly of old charger unit, not June production version :

https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=CAI%3D&q=mc3000


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have a Windows 10, 64 bit system. My MC3000 is an old unit from december 2015 (FW 1.02)
I have previously tried unsuccessfully to opradere to FW 1.11
So I was not that optimistic when I just tried to upgrade to the new fw 1.12, but surprisingly it went well :twothumbs


----------



## StandardBattery

Vasilije said:


> Hello everyone, my first post with one small problem.
> 
> 
> MC3000 Monitor V1.02 will not change the settings on the charger with FW version 1.12, still remains the setting (default Lion) even when the slots NiCd. Returning to the FW V1.11 everything is working properly. After FW update from V1.11 to 1.12 done the factory reset, and then the error remained. Sorry for my English, I hope that we can understand.


Welcome to to CPF. :buddies:

Good to know that you could actually go back to 1.11. You may have reported the first bug in 1.12 or made the first reason why the monitor needs to be updated.


----------



## Vasilije

StandardBattery said:


> Welcome to to CPF. :buddies:
> 
> Good to know that you could actually go back to 1.11. You may have reported the first bug in 1.12 or made the first reason why the monitor needs to be updated.



Thank you. Option missing in MC3000 Monitor has the ability to change the size of the working window. Thus it becomes almost impossible (or at least not practical) to use it on most laptops that do not have high-resolution panels.


----------



## lmcmann

CLB said:


> For the benefit of those who have been asking where to obtain the newest version, chargers from the June production run are for sale by DC Workshop on Amazon. Prior to ordering I sent a query to DC Workshop, and the response was that they had received their inventory on Nov. 1, direct from SkyRC. The charger I received has the label recess on the bottom, and firmware 1.10, hardware 1.4+.



Thank you very much. Been watching this charger for a while and decided to get one now (from DC/Amazon) based on this info. It arrived today and I'm happily tinkering. Firmware is updated, charging my first cells, watching on my pc. Frigging awesome, just what I wanted.

I'm reading through this entire thread (working on it!) but I'm wondering if there's a cheat sheet to getting DEX working. Yes, I will lmgtfy as well. Just wondering if there's something that will help me get it logging with the charger making all those pretty graphs <g>.

Larry


----------



## kreisl

lmcmann said:


> Yes, I will lmgtfy as well.



lol. someone read the manual 

installation of DEX: for installing DEX, there's a troubleshooting section. in summary it says that you need to download and install the latest JRE (Jara Runtime Environment) from the original Oracle site:
https://java.com/en/download/manual.jsp

configuration of DEX: Then when you go thru the settings of DEX, you'd find "MC3000" in the dex device settings where you can activate the support of the mc3k. Then restart DEX.


----------



## tjh

Is it just me, or does v1.12 beep for the screensaver (and other functions) regardless of the key beep/system beep (both of which I have set to off)

This is very annoying in the environment I work in, what a silly/stupid bug.

Can anyone else confirm I'm not going crazy?


----------



## Minimoog

May I ask what the core changes are with the 1.12 update? Worth updating from the previous version? I'm sure it has been gone over but I must have missed it despite checking in here regularly. Thanks for any input.


----------



## tjh

Minimoog said:


> May I ask what the core changes are with the 1.12 update? Worth updating from the previous version? I'm sure it has been gone over but I must have missed it despite checking in here regularly. Thanks for any input.



SkyRC explain it here


----------



## Minimoog

tjh said:


> SkyRC explain it here



Brilliant! Thanks for that.


----------



## kreisl

Vasilije said:


> almost impossible (or at least not practical) to use it on most laptops that do not have high-resolution


Hi, yes i can confirm that FW1.12 has a compatibility issue with PCLS1.02. I've reported your observation and we should see a bug fix in PCLS1.03 hopefully later this year, or at least before CNY.


tjh said:


> Can anyone else confirm I'm not going crazy?


Please don't go crazy, the bug was newly introduced in FW1.12 and has been listed under (k#83). Maybe Sky will release a silent update or rename the updated exe to 1.13.

Not until today did i submit (k#82). Hence there is no word out yet, when (or if) we're gonna see it implemented in a new firmware.


----------



## tjh

kreisl said:


> Hi, yes i can confirm that FW1.12 has a compatibility issue with PCLS1.02. I've reported your observation and we should see a bug fix in PCLS1.03 hopefully later this year, or at least before CNY.
> 
> Please don't go crazy, the bug was newly introduced in FW1.12 and has been listed under (k#83). Maybe Sky will release a silent update or rename the updated exe to 1.13.
> 
> Not until today did i submit (k#82). Hence there is no word out yet, when (or if) we're gonna see it implemented in a new firmware.



Thanks kreisl.
I'm glad SkyRC easily allow downgrade, I've rolled back to v1.11 for the moment until these two clangers are sorted.


----------



## MarioJP

StandardBattery said:


> *Good to know. Thanks!*
> 
> Maybe now it will live up to it's billing  "The World's *Most Joyful *Round Battery Charger .... tailored to a *sweet* battery tray ....."
> 
> Who can write crap like that



I really wanted to get the most joy out of this charger. I would give it another chance but it's $120 at Amazon. And i noticed the price keeps fluctuating quite often. i don't know what is going on with that. I really hope the June production is finally fixed because it is expensive.


----------



## tjh

I think now they've worked out all the bugs (both with the hardware and software) they've put the price up.
Us who got it for ~80 at first have helped find all the issues and problems with the unit.
I'm happy with it - I've done the fan mod and the software is upgradeable. I guess oneday the pegs will break, I should probably buy a $20 replacement part now while they're still available, just for future proofing.


----------



## MarioJP

tjh said:


> I think now they've worked out all the bugs (both with the hardware and software) they've put the price up.
> Us who got it for ~80 at first have helped find all the issues and problems with the unit.
> I'm happy with it - I've done the fan mod and the software is upgradeable. I guess oneday the pegs will break, I should probably buy a $20 replacement part now while they're still available, just for future proofing.



If i could get the part other than Gearbest. I would order it. Gearbest and the US don't seem to coexist.


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i've found a youtube which demonstrates re-assembly of old charger unit, not June production version :
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=CAI%3D&q=mc3000



Dinoboy for the oscars !


----------



## DT123

Vasilije said:


> Hello everyone, my first post with one small problem.
> 
> MC3000 Monitor V1.02 will not change the settings on the charger with FW version 1.12, still remains the setting (default Lion) even when the slots NiCd. Returning to the FW V1.11 everything is working properly. After FW update from V1.11 to 1.12 done the factory reset, and then the error remained. Sorry for my English, I hope that we can understand.



I just purchased the charger and was upgrading directly to v1.12 
I came here since I have issues with the software and it seems so whether I am not the only one. 
MC3000 Monitor v1.02 seemed to be useless with the charger
It always tried to charge the NiMh as LiIon.So I will try to downgrade later.

I have still other issues.
When I tried to refresh (C>D>C) some older cells the MC3000 stopped first charging due to reaching the capacity limit (it was set to 2000). 
But it never started discharging.
Do I expect too much or is this a bug?

Android App:
Is there a way to see the charged/discharged energy (and not only the capacity)?
Am I the only one who clicks with his fat fingers sometimes instead of the 'option' button on the 'stop all' button and all jobs stop suddenly? This annoys me so much and I can start all jobs again. What a waste of time.
Wouldn't it be better to get an 'Are you sure?' dialog before stopping? 
There are small red buttons for each of the 4 slots. It seems so whether i can click on it - but nothing happens. Is this normal or do I miss something?

Off-topic: Is the forum a re-design? Since my old account from 5-6 years ago didn't work anymore.


----------



## kreisl

Hello DT123, yes when sending NiMH to device, the device doesn't adopt it. I have confirmed this <PCLS1.02-FW1.12>-bug, let's expect PCLS1.03 in future. Personally i use DEX with its new Backup/Restore feature which makes PCLS obsolete imho.

When a capacity limit is hit, the program finishes at that point (RED led turns GREEN) yes that's correct this way. The capacity limit is an upper bound; operation of the program must always be within the bound, otherwise the slot "stops" the program. Technically it is not stopping but finishing, see glossary. The charger is designed that way in the so-called Design Spec, so it cannot be regarded as "issue" but as "intended". You can check with any other premium-brand hobby charger on the market, they're all designed that same way. The capacity limit is to terminate the program once hit. It is a safety measure. Feel free to turn it OFF.

No there is no way to see the energies in the Android App. At least not in the current app version. If you'd like to see energies in the Android App, you could send in such a feature request and you'd definitely hear back on it from sky team. 
Accidental wrong presses in the app and the lack of 'Are you sure?'-dialog, I see 
It is correct that some of the buttons in the app have no effect. I can see how the no-effect-buttons can lead to confusion. I ignore them.


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> Personally i use DEX with its new Backup/Restore feature which makes PCLS obsolete imho.


I tried DEX too - but I experienced also some problems. 
When I started to log (MC3000 was already running 4 jobs) it only showed slot 2 and always switched back to slot 2 when I tried to switch to another slot.

And (what was worse) when I clicked on "stop logging" (I hope that I remember right that the button was labelled so) it stopped all jobs (and not only the logging). 
So you see - I am an expert in stopping the jobs unintentional. :-(

Still learning how to avoid the problems ;-)


----------



## kreisl

Well, my procedure order goes like this: 
0. configuring DEX first, "MC3000" (for beginners) or "MC3000-Set" (for advanced), and it makes sense to check the box. then exit DEX. 
1. on the device, assign programs to the slots and insert batteries. Slots are ready.
2. connect device with PC thru USB data cable. My Windows recognizes the connection.
3. launch DEX
( 4. hit the "start gathering"-button in DEX. all ready slots start automatically due to that DEX-button. you should see DEX logging. ---> this was true for old DEX versions!)
4. hit the "start gathering"-button in DEX, then press <Enter>-key on your charger. you should see DEX logging. 
5. joy

Yes, when you hit "stop gathering"-button in DEX, all active slots of the device get stopped at the same time. DEX automatically stops logging a slot, when the slot has finished the program or 15min later. Of course, you could always manually finish a slot prematurely on the device. Again, read the glossary to distinguish between Finish and Stop.

NOTE: Before exiting DEX, you must click on "stop gathering" first! Then you can click on Exit or Close. This neat order helps to prevent potential issues of any kind, blah.

To switch from one slot to another, you must use the left-hand drop-down menu, not the right-hand drop-down menu.

Yes, it takes some learning and practicing to become fluent and confident with mc3k and or dex operation. Some, not much. I found the learning process very enjoyable and i never had to read the DEX manual.


----------



## romteb

Another successful update to 1.12 on win10 (64 bits) here, did it on my asus laptop, had to use a USB2 port as it wouldn't work on a USB3 (basically froze).


----------



## tjh

I'd recommend everyone stay on v1.11 until the bugs with v1.12 are ironed out.
It's easy to roll back to v1.11, just load up the v1.11 flasher and off you go.


----------



## Vasilije

DT123 said:


> I just purchased the charger and was upgrading directly to v1.12
> I came here since I have issues with the software and it seems so whether I am not the only one.
> MC3000 Monitor v1.02 seemed to be useless with the charger
> It always tried to charge the NiMh as LiIon.So I will try to downgrade later.
> 
> I have still other issues.
> When I tried to refresh (C>D>C) some older cells the MC3000 stopped first charging due to reaching the capacity limit (it was set to 2000).
> But it never started discharging.
> Do I expect too much or is this a bug?
> 
> Android App:
> Is there a way to see the charged/discharged energy (and not only the capacity)?
> Am I the only one who clicks with his fat fingers sometimes instead of the 'option' button on the 'stop all' button and all jobs stop suddenly? This annoys me so much and I can start all jobs again. What a waste of time.
> Wouldn't it be better to get an 'Are you sure?' dialog before stopping?
> There are small red buttons for each of the 4 slots. It seems so whether i can click on it - but nothing happens. Is this normal or do I miss something?
> 
> Off-topic: Is the forum a re-design? Since my old account from 5-6 years ago didn't work anymore.




In NiMH battery capacity limit should be set at least 1.4x higher value of real capacity due to losses that are normal during charging of NiMH batteries. Personally, I always put the capacity to 0, that is not taken into account. It is a reliable way of determining -deltaV when the battery is full and as additional security methods that battery temperature reaches 45 degrees.


----------



## tjh

I am always amazed at how many people buy a very complex and feature rich battery charger such as this, but fail to understand even the most basic properties of battery charging. Why waste money on something you're not going to use!


----------



## nervouswreckdiver

Just bought a MC3000, updated with Win 10, charging is great but have an issue with the USB output jack. I get no voltage with my Xtar usb tester, if I reboot the charger with this in place it registers power, if removed it looses power at the jack. Is this an issue with the 1.12 fw or is my charger defective? Has anyone else had this problem?


----------



## romteb

tjh said:


> I'd recommend everyone stay on v1.11 until the bugs with v1.12 are ironed out.
> It's easy to roll back to v1.11, just load up the v1.11 flasher and off you go.



Wise advice, as for me none of the known bug affect my use pattern, i wouldn't even know there was any if not for reading this thread.


----------



## DT123

Vasilije said:


> In NiMH battery capacity limit should be set at least 1.4x higher value of real capacity due to losses that are normal during charging of NiMH batteries. Personally, I always put the capacity to 0, that is not taken into account. It is a reliable way of determining -deltaV when the battery is full and as additional security methods that battery temperature reaches 45 degrees.



It was my first try of refreshing with the MC3000. And they cells were old Sanyo TwiCell 1600 - they have still a capacity of about 1100 mAh (I use them in motion sensor LED, so that is fine). And I believed that 2000 is safe. First of all since other chargers never charged more than 2000 mAh into these cells.


----------



## tjh

DT123 said:


> It was my first try of refreshing with the MC3000. And they cells were old Sanyo TwiCell 1600 - they have still a capacity of about 1100 mAh (I use them in motion sensor LED, so that is fine). And I believed that 2000 is safe. First of all since other chargers never charged more than 2000 mAh into these cells.


Most other chargers terminate on voltage, which leaves the cell not fully charged. You don't say what current you charged these cells at, but I suppose it was low enough that the end-of-charge voltage drop the mc3000 expects to see wasn't there.

Basically, as rude as it sounds, the charger works fine, you're using it wrong


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> Well, my procedure order goes like this:
> 0. configuring DEX first, "MC3000" (for beginners) or "MC3000-Set" (for advanced), and it makes sense to check the box. then exit DEX.
> 1. on the device, assign programs to the slots and insert batteries. Slots are ready.
> 2. connect device with PC thru USB data cable. My Windows recognizes the connection.
> 3. launch DEX
> 4. hit the "start gathering"-button in DEX. all ready slots start automatically due to that DEX-button.


So the settings has to be always made within of the MC3000? There is no way to access and set the programs by any external application (via PC-Link, Bluetooth)? The nice thing of the Android app is that i can name them.
I am still experimenting and tried several ways (including using the app). But all is too complicated or it doesn't log all (eg. set MC3000 by app, start, close the app, start DEX and log - the first seconds are missing)

As long I have not many different settings your way seems to work fine. At the moment I am testing all my old cells - and I have to do many individual settings. Which takes time and that is what I mean with as too complicated.

Your "Check the box" means that the new data will be added to the osd file?
So I have to open first my old osd-file before I can start gathering new data?
But does this mean also that I have to handle always the same set? I can save the slots individually, but I can load always only one file?

Btw.: My problem with DEX and the jumping always to slot 2 seems to be caused by starting gathering for slot 2 (and not the combo). I didnt know that it mattered which item in the combobox was selected.


----------



## DT123

tjh said:


> Most other chargers terminate on voltage, which leaves the cell not fully charged. You don't say what current you charged these cells at, but I suppose it was low enough that the end-of-charge voltage drop the mc3000 expects to see wasn't there.
> 
> Basically, as rude as it sounds, the charger works fine, you're using it wrong



I charged with 500 mA. (0.3C, but main reason was that I used that current to be able to compare results with other chargers)
Wrong? I only expected another behaviour. I thought that it would terminate charging normally or after 2000 mAh were charged and that it would continue then the refresh program by discharging. But calling it 'using it wrong' could be correct. 
So I have to charge & discharge now seperately.


----------



## tjh

DT123 said:


> I charged with 500 mA. (0.3C, but main reason was that I used that current to be able to compare results with other chargers)
> Wrong? I only expected another behaviour. I thought that it would terminate charging normally or after 2000 mAh were charged and that it would continue then the refresh program by discharging. But calling it 'using it wrong' could be correct.
> So I have to charge & discharge now seperately.



Yes, I expect that's slightly too low a current to trigger the voltage drop the MC3000 is looking for.
But - that's the great thing with this charger, if you wanted to you can change the parameters to be more like your "average" charger and terminate when the voltage of the battery hits ~1.48-1.50v

The 2000 setting is more of a "safety cut off" than a "if this is reached charging has finished successfully" limit. I can see why you'd think otherwise though, yes, that's not really a "using it wrong" more so a "not explained in the manual as clearly as it could be"


----------



## kreisl

nervouswreckdiver said:


> if I reboot the charger *with this in place* it registers power,
> *if removed *it looses power at the jack.


helo. 
you're saying that if you remove the USB doctor, the USB doctor loses power?
sounds legit 

when the charger is connected to power, you should always be able to charge your smartphone thru the USB type A output port of the mc3k.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> I charged with 500 mA. (0.3C, but main reason was that I used that current to be able to compare results with other chargers)
> Wrong? I only expected another behaviour. I thought that it would terminate charging normally


try the setting DELTA PEAK: 0dV
this should terminate the charging of your old/abused 1600mAh-batteries nicely.


----------



## kreisl

_> So the settings has to be always made within of the MC3000? _
No. But the non-fugitive saving of programs under program numbers on the device can be made on/with the device only.

_> There is no way to access and set the programs by any external application (via PC-Link, Bluetooth)? _
With PCLS/APP/DEX, you can access/einlesen/load/read the four programs (of the 30) which are currently assigned to the slots. (="Load/Einlesen/Read")
With APP, you can create/modify programs and save them under a custom name on the phone; sending the new settings to the charger will overwrite the program settings in the slot temporarily (for the next slot Start) and will not change settings of the 30 device-saved programs. Starting a program from the APP basically means that you start an "APP-program", not one of the 30 "device-saved" programs.
Same situation with PCLS, with the difference that PCLS cannot save programs under a custom name on the HDD.
With DEX, you can store the 30 device-saved programs under a custom name on HDD (="Backup"). And restore them temporarily, i.e. sending a backed up program to the charger will affect the slot but not the device memory where the 30 programs are saved.
Scenario: you back up all 30 programs on HDD with the help of DEX (Ctrl+T), of course with custom names. then you change the settings of the 30 programs or even do a factory reset, so all your setting get erased. now you want DEX to restore the 30 backed up programs into the device memory. well, the only way to do this task is by using the Clipboard function of the DEX dialog and then copying (=entering) the settings manually on the MC3000, line by line, row after row, and using SAVE TO:[??] at the end of SPV.
In summary, sending settings from PCLS/APP/DEX to the charger will not alter the 30 device-saved programs (device memory) but only change settings in the slots temporarily until etc.

_> I am still experimenting and tried several ways (including using the app). But all is too complicated or it doesn't log all (eg. set MC3000 by app, start, close the app, start DEX and log - the first seconds are missing)
_Also, you can only use one of the three (PCLS/APP/DEX) at a time. Otherwise you confuse yourself and the charger. 
There are no seconds missing when you follow the correct procedure, i.e. operate everything perfectly correct.

_> As long I have not many different settings your way seems to work fine. At the moment I am testing all my old cells - and I have to do many individual settings. Which takes time and that is what I mean with as too complicated._
Ahh i get it. Hmm. I could figure the situation out for myself. All roads lead to rome.
_
> Your "Check the box" means that the new data will be added to the osd file?_
No. Has nothing to do with OSD file. It's about how DEX treats multi-routine programs, e.g. a Refresh program C>D>C. With the box unchecked, DEX would log the 3 routines (or 5, with the resting phases in between!) separately. In order to produce continuous graphs, as seen in PCLS, one must check that box in DEX.

_> So I have to open first my old osd-file before I can start gathering new data?_
No. You can just click on "Start gathering"-button after having launched DEX. No need to open any OSD-files at all. The OSD-files offer a convenient way to collect test runs and battery data in a single file. That's all.

_> But does this mean also that I have to handle always the same set? _
No, needn't be the same set. The "MC3000-Set" configuration of DEX handles all 4 slots together, in parallel so to speak. Give it a try, it's difficult to explain it in words. 

_> I can save the slots individually, but I can load always only one file?_
The "MC3000" configuration of DEX is suitable for saving data/sessions of individual slots; you'd end up with lots of small *.OSD-files. Yes, in one instance of DEX, you can always open/load one OSD-file only. When you try to double-click several *.OSD-files on your HDD, several instances of DEX will launch for a DEX-XED fiesta with boom and poof, not advisable! Feel free to ignore OSD-files altogether. In any case, you should run 1 instance of DEX only. And as mentioned, you cannot use PCLS and or APP at the same time.

_> Btw.: My problem with DEX and the jumping always to slot 2 seems to be caused by starting gathering for slot 2 (and not the combo). I didnt know that it mattered which item in the combobox was selected._
Erh, i hope you can figure everything out. I am not sure which DEX configuration ("MC3000" vs "MC3000-Set") would be optimal for your application. Good luck!


----------



## Vasilije

kreisl said:


> helo.
> you're saying that if you remove the USB doctor, the USB doctor loses power?
> sounds legit
> 
> when the charger is connected to power, you should always be able to charge your smartphone thru the USB type A output port of the mc3k.



When the MC3000 connected to the power, and simultaneously connected to a PC via front or back USB, all devices connected on the USB on the PC's will receive power, even when the PC is switched off. It is the Asus Z97-A configuration (I think it is the same with other configurations). If it is necessary to remove some components from the PC motherboard, be sure to disconnect the USB cable that is connected to the MC3000 otherwise it could damage the motherboard or component you try to remove.


----------



## CLB

I am very impressed by my new MC3K charger, and I have also benefited greatly from the information in this thread. So thank you to all those who helped create, improve, and explain this nifty innovation. I do have a question about charging algorithms for NiMH batteries, if you'll bear with me.

In the case of LiIon batteries, everything seems straightforward. There is a good correlation between resting voltage and state of charge, and the principal charging variables are charging current and termination current. And I understand (I think) what the trade-offs are in terms of speed, capacity, and battery longevity. So, since 18650's are relatively expensive, if I choose to prioritize longevity over capacity, I can program the MC3K with a charging current of 0.5A, and a termination current of 0.2A. Based on HKJ's chart, I will only achieve 98% of capacity per charge, but the cell should last longer. It's fantastic that the MC3K lets me choose.

The case with NiMH is very different, and charge termination can be based on voltage, -dv/t, 0dv/dt, capacity, time, temperature, or some combination of these criteria. I think I understand how these criteria function, but I am not clear on the trade-offs, other than greater or lesser risk of failure to terminate, or of premature termination. What about the trade-offs in terms of capacity and battery longevity? Let's assume, for the sake of example, that I am charging a standard 2000mAh Eneloop AA battery, and that the MC3K will reliably (not necessarily optimally) terminate charging using any of a variety of algorithms: -dv/dt @3mV, -dv/dt @ 2mV, 0dv/dt, or voltage followed by a timed topping charge. So, termination reliability aside, what are the pros and cons of these algorithms? Most specifically, why go to the trouble of programming a Maha c9000 emulation if a simple -dv/dt terminates just fine, unless there are other advantages? Does the cooler temperature during charging really translate to longer cell life, or the slow topping charge result in greater capacity? Or?

Thank you for any insight.

Chuck


----------



## HKJ

CLB said:


> Thank you for any insight.



I will suggest you start be reading my article here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html
It do not answer you question fully, but it will probably help a bit.


----------



## kreisl

CLB said:


> -dv/dt @3mV, -dv/dt @ 2mV, 0dv/dt, or voltage followed by a timed topping charge. So, termination reliability aside, what are the pros and cons of these algorithms?


so few posts since you registered on CPF, what an honor then that you're posting about mc3k, appreciated!  Your NiMH questions are more battery chemistry science related than mc3k operation related so humble me has only little to say. from what i learned from the manual, the 0dV terminates earlier than -3mV, so logically it presses less charge into the battery. voltage termination terminates even earlier and hence doesn't let the battery heat up; with a small top-off charge like 100mA your battery will never get hot. it is common knowledge that any kind of stress is bad for health. valid for dogs, humans, batteries. and squirrels. gg.


----------



## nervouswreckdiver

You may have misunderstood what I said, the USB port should always have power. Mine does not. It shows no voltage on the Xtar tester. When I unplug the MC3K from the power and reboot it shows power at the tester. It seems to have an intermittent USB port. I don't really need a port on the MC, but the fact that its brand new could that be an indication that there is a short that might affect other functions at some point down the road. When I contacted HKE they replied that they spoke to Sky and was told it was defective and wanted me to send to China. This would cost me at least $30 in shipping costs. If its defective, why should I have to pay anything to have it rectified?


----------



## kreisl

nervouswreckdiver said:


> If its defective,


Since i have like 6 mc3k units to play with, i got an inquiry by sky if i knew anything about USB power output problem. And i answered no. Seems like none of them ppl heard of it before nor can explain it from an engineering standpoint. To my knowledge they didn't acknowledge that your unit left the factory defective (or arrived at your location defective) since every units gets checked, tested, and passes QC/QA tests, especially the electronic tests. To neither of us (you, me, retailer, sky) it is 100% clear how/where the defect was caused, assuming that your unit does have an electronic defect re the USB power output. I would question the correct function of the XTAR tester first: maybe it suffers from an electronic or mechanical defect on its own, has dodgy contacts, loose plug. So i would try to charge tablets, smartphones, etc thru the USB output port and get re-re-reconfirmed confirmation that the port is indeed defective, and i would probably also upload a video proof of the malfunction. Yet we still wouldn't know when or how the defect was born, whom to blame for, maybe you accidentally broke it without knowing, maybe it was a spillage thru your pet, and maybe that question doesn't matter anymore. How long was your purchase ago, and was it DOA? Buying expensive electronic merchandise from China Direct is always risky, in case of a warranty claim the trouble is bigger than with a local vendor. Afaik GG also demands that the end consumer cover the return shipping cost before they send out a repair or replacement unit then on their cost. Paying shipping cost for returning a DOA item _would _feel injust -i agree-, in such a case i'd try to talk with the vendor again. Paying shipping cost for returning a has-gone-broken item feels fair enough though imo. That's why i risk buying small light stuff from the china and prefer to buy expensive heavy stuff from locals.

Wishing a positive turn in your case :huh:


----------



## nervouswreckdiver

I initially noticed the problem when I tried to charge my Iphone from the port,it did not power up, then tried a Bluetooth headphone, also no power. It was after that I ordered the USB tester from MTN electronics. There was no power at the port, I then rebooted the MC and it showed power. When I disconnected the tester and reinserted it there was again no power. I really do not need the USB port to work as I have multiple wall chargers, but I was afraid it might effect other functions of the charger. It's not really worth the return shipping costs to fix this problem if it will not have other negative effects. What do you think?

BTW Thanks for the quick reply


----------



## nervouswreckdiver

The reason I purchased from HKE is that none of the stateside dealers had the June production run at the time.


----------



## DT123

I had also USB issues (I guess). I tried first to use the charger on a Windoes 8.1, 64 bit machine (Haswell). Charger wasn't recognised (error message) and it caused also in the failure of my external scanner. Only HID devices worked. I had to shutdown and restart computer.
I didn't have the time to try again since I switched to an older Win7 (32 bit) computer.
This could have been a very bad coincidence. So I am not sure till I try again in the next days.

@Kreisl:
DXE: MC3000 vs MC3000-set
Is the only difference that the set-setting saves always the set into the osd-file and never individual cells?
Or is there still more?


----------



## kreisl

nervouswreckdiver said:


> I was afraid it might effect other functions of the charger. It's not really worth the return shipping costs to fix this problem if it will not have other negative effects. What do you think?


i investigated and inquired and the word, not mine, has been out that a defective USB power output port should not affect the operation of the charger because that port be independent; yet remains interesting (for whom) to learn which technical detail is causing the intermittence in your unit. Note that you still have many months of usage left before submitting a definitive warranty claim regarding this issue. squirrel me is thinking that if you badly feel the need for some sort of solution _now already _in order make you feel joyful about  the charger again, you should get back to the vendor again and go thru several suggested options all of which would close the claim at this point for good. From my experience Chinese etailers agree for example to partial refunds to close a case early and hassle-free, and the customer would agree to keep the unit: in your situation it'd be a way to go but i am saying that you don't need to go towards the exit now already.



DT123 said:


> DXE: MC3000 vs MC3000-set
> Is the only difference that the set-setting saves always the set into the osd-file and never individual cells?
> Or is there still more?


No, there is nothing more. In terms of code, "MC3000-Set" consists of nothing but restructured code with the sole effect that the user can save, exactly as Excel 2010 does with a *.XLSX-file, an entire DEX session composed of various test runs in various slots conveniently into 1 single file. Thanks to the two drop-down menus, data and graphs are better organized in an *.OSD-file than after exporting to *.CSV-file for Excel 2010 post-processing.


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> No, there is nothing more. In terms of code, "MC3000-Set" consists of nothing but restructured code with the sole effect that the user can save, exactly as Excel 2010 does with a *.XLSX-file, an entire DEX session composed of various test runs in various slots conveniently into 1 single file. Thanks to the two drop-down menus, data and graphs are better organized in an *.OSD-file than after exporting to *.CSV-file for Excel 2010 post-processing.



If I use the 'MC3000' (without set) and choose in the first combobox instead of 'Slot x' 'Combine 5' and I save the osd then I get exactly the same? Isn't it so? 
If so then the 'MC3000' device gives me more options over the 'MC3000-set' one.
However the 'MC3000-set' one could be a "no-brainer" and so for many cases the better version.


----------



## CLB

kreisl said:


> so few posts since you registered on CPF gg.


Yes, Kreisl, still Unenlightened after all these years (sigh). Some of us are slow to grasp the concept of a forum. Some of us are tortoises and some are faster and cuter animals.



kreisl said:


> from what i learned from the manual, the 0dV terminates earlier than -3mV, so logically it presses less charge into the battery. voltage termination terminates even earlier and hence doesn't let the battery heat up; with a small top-off charge like 100mA your battery will never get hot. it is common knowledge that any kind of stress is bad for health. valid for dogs, humans, batteries. and squirrels. gg.



Does 0dv terminate earlier than -dv/dt? It seems so from the one chart of Odv/dt charging in HKJ's review, but in my layman's mind it seems like it would take longer to recognize a stable plateau than a (small) decrease in voltage. Otherwise, yes, you gave a good summary of the termination options. But which to choose? AA's are cheap, unlike dogs and squirrels. How much of a difference in longevity are we talking about between these options? Forget all that. What algorithm do you use personally for charging AA's?



HKJ said:


> I will suggest you start be reading my article here: http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html
> It do not answer you question fully, but it will probably help a bit.


Thank you, HKJ. I had already read your primer on NiMH batteries, and, yes, it was very informative, but it also prompted some of my questions about the pros and cons of various termination methods. On re-reading your excellent review of the MC3K, I realize that you did evaluate the capacity implications for -dv/dt versus voltage and timed top off, which is very helpful. For your review, I believe, except where otherwise specified, you used a charging current of .5C, and -dv/dt for termination, with a delta of 3mV (for Eneloop AA's). Is that correct? And you mentioned that 2mV might be even better. Are those the settings (-dv/[email protected]) you would use yourself if you wanted to charge a standard Eneloop AA batterry that is in good condition, and not deeply discharged? As I said above to Kreisl, it may be that there is not enough difference in stress on the battery between the various termination methods to warrant all the fuss I am making about it.


----------



## HKJ

CLB said:


> For your review, I believe, except where otherwise specified, you used a charging current of .5C, and -dv/dt for termination, with a delta of 3mV (for Eneloop AA's). Is that correct?



Most of the time I charge at 1A and with standard eneloop it is 0.5C. I do not remember the -dv/dt setting, but 3mV sounds right. I the charger miss some termination you can just reduce it.
Some chargers uses both a -dv/dt and a 0dv/dt and it that case the 0dv/dt is programmed with a longer reaction time.


----------



## kreisl

CLB said:


> What algorithm do you use personally for charging AA's?


Personally i use 0dV but i must admit that i seldom recharge my NiMH or Eneloop. I got 2 AAA in my old PC mouse, 2 AA in my rechargeable hair clipper/trimmer, and 2 AAA in my mobile house phone. Some 2 AA are still in my broken mosquito swatter. I take those batteries out maybe 1x per year. The few flashlights which get actual use are powered with Lithium-Ion's, 10440, 14500, 16340, 18650. AA and AAA NiMH weigh more than 10440 and are less bright, so i don't use them in my lights. Ah not true, 1 exception, i have 1 Eneloop AAA in my Maratac SS V3, which happens to be the industry's most efficient High-mode AAA light in terms of lumen*hours, never mind the material. (i don't believe the V4 to be more efficient at High mode but that's totally OT)


----------



## btoyzjtx

need windows pc bluetooth connectivity


----------



## kreisl

suggestions by owners make it eventually on the list or with a k-number 

suggestions by fencers don't make it onto the list or don't get any k-number 

fair enough

bye battery standard


----------



## btoyzjtx

A skilled _fencer_ advances as his opponent retreats


----------



## tjh

btoyzjtx said:


> A skilled _fencer_ advances as his opponent retreats


This is Candle Power Forums. You should take your interesting idea with regards to fencing up with Fencing.net
Unless I misunderstood of course, and you want Farm Fencing forums! (why would a cow retreat though? Is a cow even the enemy? Don't get me started on chickens)


----------



## StandardBattery

kreisl said:


> ....
> bye battery standard


WTFAYTA


----------



## kreisl

(double post, not my bad)


----------



## kreisl

StandardBattery said:


> WTFAYTA


- constant wattage
- LTO
- MBSNM
- ...

:tinfoil:


----------



## DT123

I tried to connect the MC3000 to my Win 8.1 system again. Same issues like the first time. 

Windows tells me that Driver cannot be installed. Almost all USB devices are dead after it. When I try to shut down Windows is crashing (Bluescreen) : Driver_power_state_failure :-(
Any idea what I can do?


----------



## kreisl

crashing windows omg

Win8.x is not supported afaik




Ref: gs.statcounter.com/#desktop-os-ww-monthly-201401-201611


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> Win8.x is not supported afaik


You are joking? 
The charger was introduced in 2014. The only "operation system" mentioned in the manual is Windows.
They don't mention a version - but 8.1 was published on Oct 18th 2013 - almost a year before IFA 2014.

Does anyone know which driver the charger is using and whether it is shown in the device manager?


----------



## nervouswreckdiver

+1 
on windows bluetooth connectivity


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> Does anyone know which driver the charger is using and whether it is shown in the device manager?



see before plugging in the USB cable, and after plugging it in, what happens in the device manager, hope this helps, shown Win7 and WinXP collaged into 1 single picture png:







There are no new entries created within "USB-Controller" as we can see, but there is a new entry called "Human Interface Devices" with 2 sub-entries.


----------



## Hail the Light

I'm usually good at working these things out, I have the skyrc mc3000 HW 1.4+ running 1.10 firmware, i can't enter DDV mode. Everything I was able to work out form the manual, is this problem a known issue with FW 1.10? All sots are in an active \ busy state, the up\down arrow buttons work great, the manual doesn't mention anything about the UI mode being required, thanks everyone.


----------



## kreisl

Hail the Light said:


> the manual doesn't mention anything about the UI mode being required, thanks everyone.



Hello. It is on purpose that the manual doesn't mention anything about your asked detail or other specific details like parameter ranges for the options. This leaves the maker with some spielraum to change or expand the firmware within bounds without needing to change the official internal Design Spec or the manual as well, over and over again. Nothing is set in stone, and what we like today in the firmware, we might prefer it the other way tomorrow. Especially when there is no clear consensus things are left undecided. One example is the beeping when System Beep AND Key Beep are Off; in FW1.12 there is still beeping when the battery temperature is too hot or some other abnormal program termination has occurred, we could call it Warning Beep. The other example is your asked question about the UI mode and DDV. Should DDV be available in Dummy mode, or rather not? I am indifferent and it would be arbitrary and not helpful to set it in stone, simply because taking that decision is not necessary, not urgent. We can make it available in 1.13, not available in 1.14, back available in 1.15 and so on, for utmost flexibility. If i felt strongly about that question and my suggested answer, then the decision would've been taken already and the answer noted in the printed manual.

Currently in FW1.12 and afaik earlier FW's, DDV is not accessible/not available in Dummy mode. I was aware of it, i knew it, and i felt indifferent about the situation, i didn't care, i didn't mind. It also made some sense to me, Dummy = KISS.
Maybe we hadn't discussed this detail earlier, because most of the users use Advanced Mode anyway, my guess?
So you are missing DDV access in Dummy mode, did i understand you correctly? I see. Anybody else?

I never asked the team about this detail. If i now go and ask, messenger style could possibly  go like this lol:
[INSIGHT]
q: Helo, why isn't DDV available in Dummy mode? 
a: Helo back. WTHAYTA?
q: In Dummy mode. The DDV. No DDV. No mention in manual.
a: And? What was your question again?
q: Did you have any reasons to not make DDV available in that special mode?
a: Why are you asking? Are you missing it?
q: Heh why are you answering my questions always with another question? Wth.
a: Sorry. Wondering why you're asking now. Never been a topic before iirc.
q: No i am not missing it. Just asking. I noticed it but didn't mind. Before.
a: Yeah, same here, no reason. Or can't remember. 
a: So do you want to have it changed now or what, is that it?
q: I've just said i didn't mind. It means, i dunno.
a: OIC. Ye, never mind then?
q: Guess so. For now. I might get back one day tho. We could take a final decision then.
a: What good? I don't get it. "Open Coding Is My Style".
q: Okok. With no consensus we could just leave how things are. No prob.
a: Gotcha. Thanks for your understanding.
q: Dang, this discussion wasn't very helpful today. Thanks anyway.
a: (_no further reaction. left. gone. without saying bye. lol_)
q: (_leaving too. moving on._)
[/INSIGHT]


----------



## DT123

My Windows 8 computer is running with an APC ups. I have the feeling that this could cause my problems.
Does anyone use an ups *AND *the MC3000 on the same computer?


----------



## Hail the Light

Thanks for the update, I know the features change with firmware that's whats great about this model  I really liked the manual provided and now own 2 of these mc3000's. I wasn't sure about whether it was due to dummy mode or I wasn't understanding the keypress sequence from TOV about displaying DDV mode, like booting MS windows sometimes it only works when facing south and standing on one foot while wearing green pants, If it's only available in Advanced mode, then i know it's working as its supposed to


----------



## lmcmann

DT123 said:


> My Windows 8 computer is running with an APC ups. I have the feeling that this could cause my problems.
> Does anyone use an ups *AND *the MC3000 on the same computer?



Nope. But I am running 8.1 with all critical and no important updates on two different computers connected to the charger with no problems logging or updating firmware. So it isn't inherently an 8.1 problem.

But it's Winblows. Who knows? So many variations in hardware and drivers. All I can say is that it can work. It wouldn't surprise me if the ups software was hosing things up.


----------



## DT123

If the MC3000 was disconnected and I connect first the USB cable and then the power cable then I get some 'low power' message on the display. Somehow I am not able to reset it without un- and re-plugging the whole charger again.
Isn't there a normal way to 'reset' that error message und use the charger?


----------



## tjh

DT123 said:


> If the MC3000 was disconnected and I connect first the USB cable and then the power cable then I get some 'low power' message on the display. Somehow I am not able to reset it without un- and re-plugging the whole charger again.
> Isn't there a normal way to 'reset' that error message und use the charger?


Press the enter button.


----------



## vicbin

New MC3000 owner here, purchased in Nov from GB, PCB Rev 1.5, firmware 1.10 and with latest case.

Just curious how you guys pulled these connectors "easily" as they are glued like this ? :thinking:


----------



## kreisl

taxtax said:


> I have just flashed the 1.12 firmware, and now when screensaver runs, the annoying beeps are permanent (even with "System Beep" and "Key Beep" to off)
> The only solution to set the screensaver to off.


yeh that was a bug (k#83) and has been fixed in FW1.13. now, when System Beep is Off, the Screensaver is noiseless 
Thanks for pointing out, several users had noticed the same bug and some complained.



DeJaVu said:


> Given that display is limited to 18 characters, so it is the same name as in SPV for easier understanding it can be named "SAVE TO:" with variations "SLOT", "ALL SLOTS" and "POPULATED"(or possibly READY).


you wanted it AND :nana: i liked it, so here you go (k#82):



i like the new function *very much*



(thanks so much for the terrific idea!



), and it definitely improves the UI notably. A matter of opinion/taste, maybe now the optimal setting would be Ready, not Slot anymore. However the GSV default after a factory reset will remain Slot so that users coming from earlier ****warez don't get surprised by any new or unexpected UI behavior.


----------



## scav

Do you know maybe how to force MC3000 charger to start charging dead NiCd cells ? I have few NiCd cells with 0V so the charger does not recognize the cells (NO BATTERY) but I would like to put some Current to them to check if they start life.


----------



## kreisl

this question is never getting old 

it was answered in the FAQ's : press'n hold the SNB and keep holding until the NO BATTERY turns into a voltage reading. should work!


----------



## scav

kreisl said:


> this question is never getting old
> 
> it was answered in the FAQ's : press'n hold the SNB and keep holding until the NO BATTERY turns into a voltage reading. should work!



I tried and after pressing button it shows fluctuating voltage from 0.15-0.09V and after I release SNB button it shows still NO BATTERY so I cannot start charging. I think that cells are completly dead as they have electrical short between + and - . (checked on my multimeter)


----------



## maukka

I have some batteries with protection circuits that cannot be brought back to life with the MC3000. Acebeam 26650s are like this if I recall correctly.


----------



## tjh

@kreisl: What is slot [05] in your video of v1.13 above?


----------



## Torchmee

Hi. 
Just joined the forum. I purchased a MC3000 from a US seller who received a current production shipment in November.
It has all of the latest fixes/updates and I feel good since any issues can be handled here instead of China and the price was the lowest I have seen after much research.

Anyway I was going to ask if anyone could direct me to a download link to the 1.11 firmware. SkyRC only has 1.12 available for download which I don't want. Now after reading kreisl's post above about the 1.13 firmware I would like to try it.

Any links to 1.13 available?
Thanks


----------



## kreisl

# is short for SLOT

[] is short for PROGRAM

[05] = PROGRAM[05]

#5 does not existSAVE TO
After a Factory Reset, this SPV option defaults to the present program number in the slot under consideration, referred to as "Slot" in the GSV option of the same name. Changing the program number here allows the user to save the entire modified set of program settings under a different program number, leaving the original set of program settings intact, very similarly to the "Save As..." function as known from common PC software applications. The parameters "Ready" and "All Slots" facilitate assigning identical programs, duplicates, to other slots by overwriting in parallel the currently assigned programs. "Ready" saves the program under the present program number to all ready slots. "All Slots" first saves the changes under the present program number and then copies the entire program including its program number over to all four slots; in currently active slots, the new program will not become active until the slot with the ongoing program has been stopped. 
Example: In TOV, slot#1 be empty and assigned with PROGRAM[09]. In SPV, after decrementing the program number of/in #1 from [09] to [03] at the inverted top row, you access PROGRAM[03] to edit its settings, thereby generating a "[03*]" in #1 so to speak. The last row in SPV defaults to SAVE TO [03]; depressing <ENTER> would just save [03*] under [03] and make it the active program in #1. Depressing <ENTER> on SAVE TO [05] would save [03*] as program[05], overwriting whatever PROGRAM[05] has been before, and return to TOV; the original [03] stays intact in #1, as if untouched. If (inactive) slot#2 was assigned with [05] before, then #2 would be now ready yet to run the [03*] so to speak. Depressing <ENTER> on SAVE TO All Slots would first save [03*] under [03] and then make it the new program in all slots. Depressing <ENTER> on SAVE TO Ready would first save [03*] under [03] and then scan for ready slots: if there were any ready slots, [03] would become their new program; however, since #1 is an empty slot in our example, the slot would keep [09] and not adopt [03].​


----------



## tjh

Duh, sorry, of course it is. It was too early here (6:30am) when I watched that and hadn't had any coffee. Sorry for the numb question.


----------



## kreisl

nm


----------



## Rimlyanin

SkyRC MC3000 Teardown
corrections and additions over the past year


----------



## romteb

I got the Banggood product N°948165 5.5x2.1mm DC Connector Switch, opening the ID of the male end with a drill bit made it possible to use on the MC3000.








The male end on the one i received didn't have the inner metal ring that you can see on the picture below from BG, making it very easy to open up with a drill bit by hand, once the plastic end was drilled it plug relatively easily in the MC3000, it was a bit tight but went without too much pressure.


----------



## kreisl

Nice one! Thanks for sharing!







I prefer my solution with red switch at high side. Because the adapter contains energy which i feel should be released when we power off the charger, no?

Sent from my Note 4
Not using Tapatalk


----------



## romteb

kreisl said:


> I prefer my solution with red switch at high side. Because the adapter contains energy which i feel should be released when we power off the charger, no?



You are the expert on this, i've read that it might accelerate capacitor aging with no experimental data to back up, i haven't found anectodal evidence of adapter dying because of being plugged on the main and left open on the low voltage side, i found anecdotal evidence of transfomers being left like that 20+ years with no detrimental effects, really i don't know what to think about the matter.

Someone care to chime in ?

I may leave it like that and report back in 10 years if i'm still alive and i didn't ditch my li-ion for nanothingy capacitors.


----------



## tjh

There's a new version (v1.03) of the MC3000 Windows app.
It seems to have a different interface when setting charging options.

Haven't used it yet though.


----------



## kreisl

afaik that's the fixed PCLS version to make it compatible with FW1.12. 
PCLS1.03 should work with FW1.11 too, downward compatible, but i haven't tested it, i don't run FW1.11 on my units.

Thanks for the heads up tjh, cheers!!


----------



## taxtax

Torchmee said:


> Anyway I was going to ask if anyone could direct me to a download link to the 1.11 firmware. SkyRC only has 1.12 available for download which I don't want.



You can find it here:http://www.skyrc.com/download/

There are two files with the same content: MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11.rar.6b1f7d57c601231f752ab682ef266865 
and MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11.rar.abf5c440038bb5028f203435cce437f2

Download any of them and rename it (erase the characters after rar)


----------



## kreisl

Torchmee said:


> Any links to 1.13 available?


Welcome on CPF!

FW1.13 will be released asap, within 1-2 weeks i am confident.
Sit tight


----------



## ediaz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes I don't know why the MC3000 don't have the capacity to force the charge of low volt battery Li-Ion

How can I make a request for this feature?..



kreisl said:


> Thanks @7histology, hhh.
> 
> The slot number button pressing method however works only when TOV shows NO BATTERY for the slot. When TOV shows 1.50V and you long-press the SNB, the program in that slot will start. As we know it's an alternative way of starting a program.
> 
> @Minimoog, you too have a 2nd unit now? Wow you guys!!
> The continuity break happens as a security measure when the load voltage becomes too high w/ high charging current on a high resistance cell.


----------



## Torchmee

taxtax said:


> You can find it here:http://www.skyrc.com/download/
> 
> There are two files with the same content: MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11.rar.6b1f7d57c601231f752ab682ef266865
> and MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.11.rar.abf5c440038bb5028f203435cce437f2
> 
> Download any of them and rename it (erase the characters after rar)



Got it.
Thanks taxtax!
Appreciate the help.


----------



## Torchmee

What would you do?
My new MC300 has 1.10 fw installed from the factory.
I have 1.11 and 1.12 available now and 1.13 is coming in a couple weeks. I have Charge Master 1.03 which just came out to install on the PC.

Which fw should I run with Charge Master 1.03 until 1.13 is available?
Opinions appreciated.


----------



## tjh

Torchmee said:


> What would you do?
> My new MC300 has 1.10 fw installed from the factory.
> I have 1.11 and 1.12 available now and 1.13 is coming in a couple weeks. I have Charge Master 1.03 which just came out to install on the PC.
> 
> Which fw should I run with Charge Master 1.03 until 1.13 is available?
> Opinions appreciated.


 I love that you're this concerned about it! It's not really going to matter what you do, unless you're doing something convered specifically by the newer firmware. Put v1.11 on there, off you go, wait for v1.13. I'm still using v1.11 and my charger hasn't let me down. You can always downgrade if required too, the firmware upgrade isn't a 1 way process.


----------



## StandardBattery

Torchmee said:


> What would you do?
> My new MC300 has 1.10 fw installed from the factory.
> I have 1.11 and 1.12 available now and 1.13 is coming in a couple weeks. I have Charge Master 1.03 which just came out to install on the PC.
> 
> Which fw should I run with Charge Master 1.03 until 1.13 is available?
> Opinions appreciated.


Whatever works for what you want to do. There is no guarantee that 1.13 will work for you until it is out and you have tried it. We have all been told that there are no bugs in the MC3000 and no hardware issues, it's just that some things don't always work I guess. Oh and maybe if you think you want to use a MobileApp... I say maybe because it's never really been tested. Essentially if 1.12 will not work for you with CM 1.03, then you either stay where you are or move to 1.11, only you can know for sure. If it does not work it may be the phase of the moon, but it seems like you can at least go back to where you were so no big deal except wasted time (or is that space). Remember Don't Panic!


----------



## CLB

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> The C9000 charge mode could be mimicked i think with dis program . .



I created a program on the MC3K that mimics the Maha C9000 charge algorithm for NiMH AA batteries (1A charge with 1.47V termination, followed by a timed two hour topping charge of 0.1A), and the program seems to run just fine. But I am puzzled by the results. Testing the routine with a near new, partially discharged Eneloop, the accumulated capacity increased during the intial charge phase, but did not further increase at all during the topping period, even though the cell was clearly not fully charged. I immediately ran the same program again on the same battery in the same slot, and there was a further small capacity increase during the initial charging phase, and again none at all during the topping phase, even though the voltage increased. So a total of four hours at 0.1A resulted in no reported change in accumulated capacity. And yet, when I ran a straight timed charge program at 0.1A (same slot, same battery, after partially discharging), the capacity began to increase immediately and gradually, as you would expect, and was still increasing very slowly even when voltage reached 1.51V, well above the highest level after the topping phase of the "C9000" program.

So, what is going on here? Do you think the capacity numbers for the "C9000" program accurately reflect the state of charge, or are they a quirk of the way capacity is being measured by the MC3K, or? What am I missing, or misunderstanding? I guess I should add that I have no aversion to using 0dv or dv/dt as termination methods, I was just interested in comparing different algorithms, since the MC3K gives us the flexibility to do this.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



CLB said:


> (…)


Which firmware are you on, hopefully FW1.11 or higher? I know exactly what's going on.
The firmware, for various reasons not specified here, treats the capacity contribution by TRICKLE C. as 0mAh, and it could be mentioned in the manual, did you study it? One reason to do so is Maha themselves. The Maha, or any other common charger-analyzer from the Walmart shelves, does not continue to count mAh's when it switches to the 100mAh top-off current or trickle charge - at least the last time i checked. Of course, one smart newton2017 could come up and second-guess why all the chargers are coded in the firmware to behave this way but that would be OT. May it suffice that i've explained that it is intended correct behavior and also laid down in the so-called Design Spec.

Okay, lemme check the manual ... yes, it is indeed mentioned on page m23.

Similar observation, correct one, when using the Dummy UI Mode: There the mc3k mimics the Maha charging method even better, adding an untimed(?) 10mA trickle charging routine after the top-off charge. Again the capacity counter doesn't count further when the process reaches the start of the top-off charge. So many el cheapo chargers use voltage termination followed by trickle charge with the benefit of keeping the NiMH's coolish. The mc3k can do dad too since FW1.11


----------



## tjh

*Edit: I'm an idiot, the master list shows clearly what's different.
*
Has anyone got a list of what exactly changed in each FW version?

I know there's the master list post on page 1, but is there a breakdown of what's changed in each FW?
I just spent ~10 minutes looking and I couldn't find anything - the firmware update packages don't list anything.


----------



## Vasilije

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Charge Master V1.03 actually has better method of selection parameters. Far better than the earlier versions. It works well with FW V1.11. I especially like it because all the options when setting the parameters of slots are available at once, and can be adjusted with the scroll wheel on the mouse. Now wait FW1.13 for further tests.


----------



## kreisl

tjh said:


> Has anyone got a



+ 1

yeah, anyone?? :thinking:


----------



## CLB

kreisl said:


> Which firmware are you on, hopefully FW1.11 or higher? I know exactly what's going on.



Kreisl, thanks so much. I never cease to be amazed at how on top of this forum you are. I am on FW1.12 (updated fine with Win. 10, BTW), and you're right, my question was answered in the manual. Sorry, I know it is frustrating to keep being asked questions that are covered in the manual. Honest, I have read it all, but some of the details have obviously escaped my attention. And thanks also for the information about the Dummy charge algorithm: if that is covered in the manual, well then, I'm hopeless because I can't find it. And, yes, the C9000 charge algorithm does keep the battery cooler than 0dv or dv/dt, and has had fierce adherents here on CPF in past debates. The MC3K is not just a charger for all chemistries, but a charger for all partisans.


----------



## tjh

kreisl said:


> + 1
> 
> yeah, anyone?? :thinking:


 Oh dear, who's a giant muppet?
Sorry!

If possible it might be nice to change the colours there so it stands out, because I'd read the list but hadn't seen those lines (that's because, as previously discussed, I'm a muppet)


----------



## kreisl

CLB said:


> information about the Dummy charge algorithm: if that is covered in the manual, well then, I'm hopeless because I can't find it.


No, not every detail is laid out in detail  in the manual. Maybe the *best manual *by a Chinese charger maker i've ever seen released is the one included with the Xstar Dragon charger, pure awesomeness!! You all should get one too.
Anyway, some details about the charger are left to the maker's discretion.




btw if we have clear ideas for a better charging algorithm, then we could have it changed in the firmware no problem without needing to edit the manual again.

[OT]i do like the C9000 a lot. but it displays behavior which i wouldn't want to see coded in mc3k's firmware:
- C9000 is really sensitive about not-perfect-condition cells ("HI6H"). it refused to process some of my old Eneloops. could be fixed thru firmware
- the LCD background light is annoyingly bright and cannot be turned off. could be fixed thru firmware
- with the omnipresence of USB devices we are learning that energy is the superior way to evaluate performance and do comparisons. could be added thru firmware
- C9000 fails to discharge older cells because due to the PWM-discharge pattern the LCD reports "DONE" right away, even though the cell is still filled with plenty of energy. difficult to fix thru firmware
- doesn't show timer of top-off routine, so one doesn't know when trickle charge routine sets in. could be fixed thru firmware
- the slow automatic scrolling of information per slot, then again for the next slot, etc tests my patience. i can't be be fixed thru firmware[/OT]


----------



## Vasilije

Charge Monitor V1.03 in taskbar actualy is Charge Monitor V2


----------



## tjh

Vasilije said:


> Charge Monitor V1.03 in taskbar actualy is Charge Monitor V2


 Yea and it's got a number of features from my list here they seem to have listened to. It's still fugly, but it's getting there slowly. Thanks, SkyRC.


----------



## tjh

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Has anyone found #k38? I can't find how to trigger it (fw v1.12)


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> Adding a little bluetooth dongle to the PC would be easy, and much preferred to the 90s style of cables connecting everything....


I realize this is an October post, and I haven't finished with the thread reading yet...

But, yeah! why cant the PC software work either with a USB cable or Bluetooth? It is not like there are any programming issues, depending on what data they are throwing out the Bluetooth stream to the phones. Presumably there is some back and forth communications and so "talking from a PC now" could be one of those messages. Then the PC software could get the same blocks of information it does now with USB. *Either*/*Or*.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Benediction said:


> I realize this is an October post, and I haven't finished with the thread reading yet...
> 
> But, yeah! why cant the PC software work either with a USB cable or Bluetooth? It is not like there are any programming issues, depending on what data they are throwing out the Bluetooth stream to the phones. Presumably there is some back and forth communications and so "talking from a PC now" could be one of those messages. Then the PC software could get the same blocks of information it does now with USB. *Either*/*Or*.


 Sure could, yup. In fact it's quite possible to get my Windows 10 PC to pair with the MC3000. You have to enter pin of 0000 (or maybe any PIN works) and it then pairs up just fine. It, interestingly enough, appears as NC3000 not MC! But I have an original production version, maybe that's been changed in later versions. It certainly wouldn't be hard to update the MC3000 Monitor app to use this connection, I agree it would be nice.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



tjh said:


> I've spent ages trying to figure out k#51 and have given up!


i've added some letters :thinking:


----------



## tjh

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> see k#51.
> 
> unless you **ck your downloaded EXE there's no official way to get to them
> 
> i heard that the Russians are up for it and we could see some progress in a week or so :devil:
> 
> why **ck you ask?
> 
> see again k#51.


 I've spent ages trying to figure out k#51 and have given up! I'm not too bad with a hex editor though, I'll have a poke at the MC3000 firmware updater.exe and see what's in there


----------



## Benediction

AA Cycler said:


> And yes, I am a happy owner of SkyRC MC3000, in fact I bought 5 of them. 4 out of 5 are running 24/7 cycling my AA Ni-MH cells - this is how I get data for my website - http://aacycler.com



Hello Cycler - Some thoughts/questions about the site.



When the date is listed next to "TestA TestB" - is that the manufacturing date?
Might you also include on the report - manufactured country - manufacturer's claimed max cycles - Claims "LSD" or pre-charged 
Have you programmed a delay between either charging or discharging before next cycle? (hmm, you could even post a DEX text output of the program being used  ) 
Are there other links to where your experimenting is going on? For example discharging to a higher voltage than 0.9...say 1.1v or 1.05? 
Other cycle testing I have seen has included a *periodic "refresh" cycle* which did change the graph (higher discharge mAh's for many cycles after refresh). 

I suspect that the discharge is probably creating the most losses for cycles. Perhaps down to only 1.05 or 1.0 would create more cycles. Not that an end user could control how low the battery would be discharged in end use gadgets.

I also suspect most NIMH don't need to be "fully" charged. The vast majority are not used _right away_, but are left in a box or inserted into the end use device but that is not turned on or used right away. The highest self discharge I have found for Even LSD batteries occurs within the first few days extending out to the first month. After that they mostly lose at most 1% per month (the better ones anyway). So if a battery is going to sit around in a device or storage for a bit anyway does it make sense to charge it "fully"? And if we don't, does it extend its life (cycles)? For this reason it is a good idea you are using 0dV termination, rather than dv/dt or -dv/dt


----------



## CLB

kreisl said:


> No, not every detail is laid out in detail in the manual.



Yeah, who is responsible for writing the manual anyway?  (Actually, it is both informative and fun--can Xtar say that?) With your OT observations about the shortcomings of the C9000, many others here concur. But since folks have been posting about some of these issues for years, I don't expect to see them addressed. Unless, of course, you are looking for another project.


----------



## tjh

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



tjh said:


> I've spent ages trying to figure out k#51 and have given up! I'm not too bad with a hex editor though, I'll have a poke at the MC3000 firmware updater.exe and see what's in there


Well, well well. What have we here? Some trickiness with a hex editor is certainly required!

It's Snake, Tetris and something I'm not familiar with (some sort of steps game)

Note: I'm not going to share how I found this, suffice to say it's well hidden and you no amount of button pressing by itself will find it - you've got to modify the firmware image flashed to the device.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

amazing **cking skills there!!

Be safe man!








seems like you beat the Russians to it :thumbsup:


----------



## Benediction

kreisl said:


> btw if we have clear ideas for a better charging algorithm, then we could have it changed in the firmware no problem without needing to edit the manual again.



Better ideas would, of course, require testing to see if they were, in fact, better  or .
So I guess we first have to define what better would mean. I think the following probably are among the desired effects.

Less overall loss of capacity - each successive charge delivers as mAh in usage as possible. 
Less build up of resistance, which we are given to understand reflects the health of the battery (cell). 
If charging can be somewhat faster without sacrificing the capacity or resistance, yeay us! 
Less heat during charge, as a trade-off vs other desires. 

I'm sure everyone else can think of some features to add.

I've already posted these ideas on another forum/site but I will copy some of the ideas here.
The end user charger has no control of how a battery is drained, or how long it is left drained - so that is beyond our scope.

Charging then, breaks down into five phases.


Battery detection and charge level determination - health tests (resistance, et al) 
Begin of battery charging - for a fully discharged battery (assuming testing shows it is at that level) 
Middle of charging 
Approaching level where battery-full might occur 
Final charging arrangements, when fullness is detected. 

*1. Battery detection*
I suspect the charger can detect when "something" is placed between the positive and negative connectors of the charger. Even if this "thing" might just be a piece of metal. The circuit is completed in some way.
So check for things that might break the charger - reversed battery, a piece of metal, whatever comes to mind.
After it has determined a battery is what is closing the circuit...
Check for resistance.
Check approximate level of charge. In order to do this it must, as far as I know, place the battery under some load and determine voltage.
For NIMH:
A fully emptied battery, with a passive voltage check on a VMM will show somewhere around 1.2 volts. So to detect empty - put it under load and the voltage will drop fairly quickly down to 1.1 and below - this would be categorized as phase one or empty battery.
A partially full battery can be determined by testing under load also. These generally stay around 1.20 to 1.27 volts, without much drop.
A mostly full battery would show as being 1.27 to 1.39 or so, under load.

*2. Begin of charging*
I've seen several examples of other chargers amps patterns at beginning of charge. I'm not an electrician so I'm not certain of the effect of Pulse Width Modification (PWM) vs a fixed current, but all the charting I've seen seem to practically equate the two charging methods (purists prefer fixed it seems).
In any case to be as gentle as possible on an empty battery, and its chemistry, it would seem to make sense to start slowly with a lower current. Perhaps C/40 or C/50 for 5-10 minutes. The MC3000 seems to do this for about 8 minutes. Longer might be better, only testing would tell (eg: all other features the same but modify this)

*2a. Transition between charge voltages.*
I propose that all changes of voltage occur in a gradual fashion. Which from a graphing perspective would appear to be a slope or curve. Maybe 2 minutes for transition from C/40 to middle charging current.
(SkyRC MC3000 charger designer chose to take ~8 minutes for slope) Example of Gradual increase of voltage (Thank you LHK for you lygte site and graphing)

*3. Middle of charging*
Keep up the current, watch the voltage, check for loss of circuit (ie: someone removing battery during charge).
Test voltage while charging and also while no current is applied, between pulses (assuming PWM). Perhaps, even occasionally checking voltage under load (brief).

*4. Approaching end of charge*
Whichever charge ending criteria was chosen, which might be: specific voltage, inflection (tm Paul), 0dv, a voltage plateau, "Peak Sensing tech. ala Panasonic BQ-CC55", a selected amount of mAh pushed into battery, -dv/dt detection...
At some point it is decided that the battery is practically full. So what some chargers do is lower the voltage to avoid as much heating of battery as possible. How much to lower is something that should be discussed. 75%, or multiple levels, 80% for a while, 60% for a bit, 40% etc. As in 2a above always transitioning. If the lowered voltage somehow interferes with "fullness" detection (as in missing a crossover for -dv/dt) some solution could be developed.
This charger halves the amps about 25% before the end of the charging. (Opus BT-C700) and example of tiered decrease of voltage (Opus BT-C3100)

*5. Final charging arrangements*
Transition the voltage down to much lower value. Depending on charge setting a low C/10 or C/20 top off charge could be applied...although usually *not*. If battery is the old non LSD, then trickle charge might be used (don't trickle on my LSD!!)

*Controversial - Burping Technique* ( :thinking: oops, pardon me)

Over at ElectroPaedia I found this technique among charger information page (among the others)...



> *Burp charging* Also called *Reflex* or *Negative Pulse Charging* Used in conjunction with pulse charging, it applies a very short discharge pulse, typically 2 to 3 times the charging current for 5 milliseconds, during the charging rest period to depolarise the cell. These pulses dislodge any gas bubbles which have built up on the electrodes during fast charging, speeding up the stabilisation process and hence the overall charging process. The release and diffusion of the gas bubbles is known as "burping". Controversial claims have been made for the improvements in both the charge rate and the battery lifetime as well as for the removal of dendrites made possible by this technique. The least that can be said is that "it does not damage the battery".
> 
> 
> 
> The optimum current profile depends on the cell chemistry and construction.​


​


----------



## ddan

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

Hi there,

I'm new here but I'm spectating since about a half year. Finally I bought the MC3000 and I'm very happy with it. I'm missing just one option and I was not able to find a solution for this. Is there a way to handle deep/exhaustive (I don't know the correct english word for very emty batteries) discharged NiMH batteries? I've read about pressing the slot button for a longer time but this did not work with my Eneloops. Fortunately I was able to use my old ALC1000 which has an option for such empty batteries.

Best regards,
Danny


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*



ddan said:


> ...and I was not able to find a solution for this. Is there a way to handle *deep/exhaustive* (I don't know the correct english word for very empty batteries) discharged NiMH batteries? I've read about pressing the slot button for a longer time but this did not work with my Eneloops.
> Danny



Welcome Danny,

What you have tried, pressing the correct button will send a short charge into the battery, but how many times you would have to do so, to eventually get the MC3000 to recognize it all depends on how *empty* or *drained* the battery was. That "_feature"_ of the MC3000 is not the intended use but it might eventually work. 


> The charger has a special protection reset, hold down the *number *button for an "empty" slot and it will pulse the current.



Another solution might be, if you have an old dumb charger which charges batteries in pairs, to put the drained battery + a regular battery in the dumb charger for a few minutes, and *then* put it in the MC3000.
Then there is the suggestion that many here in the forum have suggested, which involves a good battery in the charger and some wires or pieces of metal. I can't find the post just now, but basically you put the good (non-empty) battery in charger and connect wires/metal to the ends of the empty battery.


----------



## Vap3on

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi all I'm new to the forum but have been a lurker for a few years!

I got a MC3000 back in January 2016 from Gearbest and only used it a few times due to life and all. Last week I decided to finally update the firmware as it had been almost a year (1.12) I downloaded the update connected it all up as per the instructions and ran the updater after a few seconds I got an error message on Windows 7 from the update program (I can't remember the error) I left it for 30 mind came back the progress bar had not moved and each time the error appear I click on OK and left it until the next morning not touching the PC or the MC3000.

So as you have guessed I bricked the MC3000 just a blank screen and not reconised device on USB.

Does anyone know if you can recover the MC3000?

Can it be repaired? Sent back to SkyRC / Gearbest, has anyone had any experience repairing a MC3000?

Would any users buy another one as some will have had a MC3000 tested in anger for a year?

Apologies for all the questions I was pretty annoyed when it died but having 25 years in IT all firmware upgrades are always a risky!

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> A reminder for those flashing v1.12 not to freak out if it doesn't work the first time.
> Just follow this guide.



If the update fails, the system us *usually not bricked*. Yes there is a blank LCD screen but the bootLoader does not change the screen and bootloader is not overwritten by updating.



> Originally Posted by *tjh*
> 
> Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> *
> Dummies guide to reflash a charger after a failed flash:
> *
> Step 0: Also, if you are using windows 10 make sure that you are up to date. You must be on build 1511. (Thanks to MarioJP)
> Step 1: Get a better USB Cable
> Step 2: Remove all and any USB devices/cables from your PC.
> Step 3: Ensure no ports are in USB3 mode. Turn that off in your BIOS if you have to. Don't ask me how to do this.
> Step 4: Remove *all* cables from the charger [power, usb, All]
> Step 5: Holding the Enter Key on the charger, plug in the Power. *IT WILL POWER UP TO A BLANK SCREEN. THIS IS EXPECTED.
> *Step 6: Plug in the known-good USB cable into the charger, then into your PC.
> Step 7: Run the _UpgradeFirmware_MC3000_V11.exe _program. Ensure it says "My Device was Found" then probably it'll say "Some data was send". It should also show "Boot Version: 1.x" where x is probably 1.
> Step 8: Click the update button again.
> 
> 
> If Step 7 is failing (can't see your charger) then either:
> 1) You have managed to damange the built-in boot code of the charger. Almost impossible.
> 2) You have a bad PC/USB Cable/Windows install. Try another one. Borrow a friends PC.
> 
> The boot code that runs when you press Enter is hard coded. So it should always be possible to unbrick the charger by pressing enter when power is plugged in. The blank screen you get is expected, the charger is  booting a very small "Boot Loader" and nothing else. This boot loader has nothing to do with the version of firmware your charger is/was running. It's burnt onto the EEPROM of the charger.
> 
> Hope this helps.


----------



## Vap3on

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Benediction said:


> If the update fails, the system us *usually not bricked*. Yes there is a blank LCD screen but the bootLoader does not change the screen and bootloader is not overwritten by updating.


Many many many thanks for the information as I tried and failed to find a solution!

I will try to fix it when I have time!

Thanks once again


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

*Delta Peak options: *

Currently this is used for 0 = 0Δv and number = -ΔV/Δv amount of difference.

But a charging battery (depending on several factors) will go through the following phases in order. The voltage rises slowly during most of charging, then quickly, then tapers off not increasing as quickly again, then peaks, then drops somewhat, finally it virtually stays constant.

-ΔT/Δt Temperature rise - depending on battery age, resistance and charging rate, this might occur at almost any later stage of charge. 
inflection - The goal of inflection is to detect the voltage change from fast rising to tapering off. 
-ΔV/Δv dropping of voltage 
0ΔV constant 

A programming change for this option might cycle through the following options:

Δ*T*/Δt + inflection + -Δ*V*/Δv + 0Δ*V* 
-Δ*V*/Δv + 0Δ*V* 
0Δ*V*


----------



## ddan

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*



Benediction said:


> ... Another solution might be, if you have an old dumb charger which charges batteries in pairs, to put the drained battery + a regular battery in the dumb charger for a few minutes, and *then* put it in the MC3000.
> Then there is the suggestion that many here in the forum have suggested, which involves a good battery in the charger and some wires or pieces of metal. I can't find the post just now, but basically you put the good (non-empty) battery in charger and connect wires/metal to the ends of the empty battery.



Hi Benediction,

Thanks for your reply. My intension was to use the MC3k only. So I contacted SKY RC and asked them. Here is what Karl Peng wrote:



> Eneloop AAA "recognized" as "NO BATTERY" can be revived by pressing the Slot Number Button. Just keep holding the button for tens of seconds or even a couple of minutes. Keep the button pressed until some voltage is shown in the Total Overview.
> 
> Also make sure that the negative battery terminal does make contact with the slider nub. AAA sized batteries and smaller eventually need to be lifted at their negative terminal to make proper connection with the slider.
> 
> The SNB-pressing trick works for both NiMH and LiIon, in case the batteries make proper connection with the charger and the charger "recognizes" them as "NO BATTERY".
> 
> 
> You can measure the voltage of the Eneloop AAA with an external digital multimeter and let us know what the voltage is. A report of the battery voltage included in your original inquiry would have been more helpful.




The voltage was 0.12V and 0.13V. I'll try this as soon as my kids claim about non-working toys again


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

I have very often problems with several AAA cells which are detected for some seconds and then it shows 'no battery'. The ends of the batteries are too low. So it loses the contact. This can also happen by some low vibrations (for instance when I add another cell to the charger).
I can fix this manually by arranging the position but the cell will then hang partly in the air. 
Do you have also similar problems? I guess that this is a mechanical problem.

Edit:
I just read the quote in the previous post (in generally I skip quotes and don't read them):



> _Also make sure that the negative battery terminal does make contact with the slider nub. AAA sized batteries and smaller eventually need to be lifted at their negative terminal to make proper connection with the slider._



It seems so that the design of the slider is not perfect for AAA cells. And also that this is a general problem.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*



DT123 said:


> It seems so that the design of the slider is not perfect for AAA cells. And also that this is a general problem.


just to make the point, with the dragon charger it is the same general problem: if the AAA-sized (or smaller diameter) battery has wrapper material at the negative terminal and is fully seated in the battery tray, then the slider cannot make contact with that terminal. the 'battery tail' needs to be lifted up by a few milimeters, then the battery negative terminal can make contact with the slider.

Not all AAA-sized batteries have wrapper material at the bottom nor have all 10440's. But the grey Protected Ultrafire 10440 does:






When the UF10440 is fully seated in the slot, the dragon slider would touch the UF-wrapper, not the battery negative terminal:











Only after lifting the tail and centering the slider nub on the battery negative terminal do we establish electrical connection:







Sure, maybe the sky nub could/should be, like the dragon nub, 0.8765mm lower for more secure contact with AAA-sized batteries which do _not _have wrapper material at the bottom. But my next point is, where does it end? As i've just shown, this wouldn't fix the unfortunate situation with my UF10440. And for sure neither the xtar nub nor the sky nub are low enough for AAAA-sized batteries. To have a nub as low as to fit AAAA-sized batteries, the nub would need to ride extremely low and be pointy, which in turn wouldn't be optimal for contacting 18650's which do have wrapper material at their bottom etc etc

Either way, no matter how hard one tries to optimize the slider nub (height, profile, geometry), the result will always remain a compromise. The advantages of the higher riding sky nubs are the more centrical axis of force between the two battery terminals (maybe you don't need that, but the designers wanted it :nana and the ease of calibration through the user: the height of the slider with the second nub is a god-sent for clipping a crocodile alligator, me luves it!!

Okay enuff. Now lemme know how well i did the sugar-coating talk  

If you have a genius idea for an uber-improved geometric CAD-design of the sliders together with a clear idea how they can be manufactured inexpensively, feel free to send in your suggestion. I am sure that the sky team will get back to you on it.


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

Nice photos - they explain a lot.
I thought that my charger had problems. 
I will perhaps look for a frame/wrapper to lay under the AAA cell or use battery converters. This should be easier and cheaper than redesigning the sliders. (as long as the converters won't melt)


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

Somewhere in this thread there was the suggestion to allow discharging of 2*2Amperes not only 1*2Amperes or 2,3,4*1Ampere, because of the overall current. Is this possible to implement?
Also I noticed, that if I discharge a single cell with 2A and then add another cell to charge with e.g. 1,5A the discharging slot drops down the current to 1A due to the limitation.
But it doesn´t go back to 2A if the second slot finishes or I remove the second cell..
Any explanation for that?

Greets


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

Can anybody tell me what could have been the reason for the drop in the middle? Malfunction?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/htrukyxi2mejhpd/DEX.png?dl=0

Room temperature was about 22°C. So the temperature drop is not possible.

Current was 50 mA and I was depleting an AAA alcaline cell.


----------



## ilgrank

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

Just discovered a new bug in MC3000 Monitor 1.03 (released a week ago and the only version working with fw 1.12)
The new interface limits the cut-off time to maximum 240 minutes, which it WAY TOO LOW (previously you could set 700+minutes) to finish long programs!
@kreisl : can you please add this to the list of bugs? (I know DEX does not have this problem, but I'm fine (I was at least) with Skyrc's tool and I'd want it improved, not reduced in functionality!)

Thanks!


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

Nice find ilgreank!


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

@DT123 , i'd clean/check the rail and slider. Also you're saying AAA. Alkalines have wrapper material at the bottom, and maybe the battery rotated a bit and the connection to the slider nub got altered. Was the charger left untouched, sans vibration of the desk? Was there absolutely no external influence possible, maybe a spider fighting a mosquito duo on top of the Alkaline, or lady bug crawled in and later crawled out again with a heap of dust particles? It's the first time that i see such a zag in the graph. Btw i only report incidents or peculiarities when i am able to reproduce it. First some maintenance, then repeating the test run. And making sure that the electrical connection is firm, etc. 

@STIXXXXXXX , first of all: you are talking about LiIon batteries, nothing else. You didn't mention it, so it needs to be said out loud for the discussion. Because the limitation is valid for LiIon batteries only. Okay. 2x(-2A) LiIon would be possible i guess but it hasn't been decided yet if mc3k will offer it ever. KISS. Besides personally i wouldn't know how to implement it even conceptually, say in a flowsheet diagram. Could become messy very fast. KISS. Has no priority in the list whatsoever, status remains UNCONFIRMED. May come in future one day though. And the behavior how the automatic current reduction, see FAQ, is to work is not set in stone either. The firmware remains flexible in such and other very details, and the manual reflects that in the writing. In FW1.11 we observe this, in FW1.13 we observe that, and in FW1.50 we'd observe something else! If there's some detailed behavior within the framework of the so-called Design Spec which i'd happen to oppose at a later point, then i'd bring it up and have it dealt with. In your example, i honestly don't know what to expect when i discharge 1x(-2.00A) LiIon in #1 and charge or discharge another 1xLiIon in #2 and what is to happen when #2 is finished (GREEN LED) or stopped (GREEN-RED BLINKING LED). I have no clear picture about this scenario, I am indifferent. And whenever i am indifferent and there is no clear idea from you guys how something should be better implemented, things/decisions are left as taken by the maker team and i'll just accept how things are. I can't state a case if i am not convinced about it myself or if i am indifferent. On the other hand i fully support strong, urgent, beautiful, convincing suggestions, where i then take over the case, see the notable change between FW1.12 and FW1.13.
So, if you ask me _why_ the slot doesn't ramp up to -2A again, then there is no reason to be given. There is no reason. I don't know it. It's programmed like that. The maker did it, took some decision on her own regarding this detail topic without interference on my behalf, and if i'd noticed your observation by myself, then i just think '_hmm.. aha.. ho-hum.. okay.. why not.. fine.. so be it!_' and move on. Also, it is very arguable what the slot _should_ do then; in a discussion/debate the maker could go ahead and simply invoke KISS and that'd be that, your case shut. In any case, when i get to do so, i'll try to wrap my nuts around it and get a clear picture how things should go in your scenario. Btw, the original KISS was, to not allow -2A Liion at all. 4x-2A 3x-2A liion would be too much heat, 2x-2A would be at the limit but also nut-crackingly difficult to implement in a clear way without getting tangled in a giant mess. 1x-2A liion was very doable from a safety standpoint and more importantly, clear enough to code with a uberschaubar set of rules for the code algorithm. And everybody was happy that at least 1x-2A liion could be offered and integrated in the Design Spec. It was win that day! FTW

So. Let's be happy with what we have.
And sorry for the discourse.


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

The test was with a full set of AAA alkalines (different brands). The aberration happened to all of them (same time).
The charger is on a solid floor - no vibration possible. And it was unattended.
Even if there was some rotation or movement. It wouldn't explain the drop of the system temperature. Wouldn't it?
I will start a second test with AA cells.


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*



DT123 said:


> Current was* 50 mA a*nd I was depleting an AAA alcaline cell.



*Wow* Depleting with 50 mA, thats very low. Yes the MC3000 supports that rate but...
Question kreisl (or anyone), has anyone *else *done any testing 50 mA *discharging*. It is not a very likely scenario and might not be part of the QA testing at SkyRC.


----------



## Viking

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

A 50 mA discharge rate isn't particularly low for a AAA alkaline cell, since this chemistry is often used in low drain devices.
Energizer uses for example a 25 mA discharge rate in their data sheets for AAA alkaline cells. 
I personally have discharged some AAA alkaline cells with MC3000 using a 100 mA current draw, no issues.


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

I can verify the drop in temperature and voltage. 
With an outside temperatures around 0°C it is enough to open the window for less than a minute to generate such a drop. 
I knew that temperature would make a difference - but I didn't thought that a short temperature drop of only 5°C in a room (system temperature) would have made such a difference. Its more the cooling down of the cells.

In this example you can see very well that the cells are cooling down first and more than the system (since the cold air comes from above) (it is a crop of the DEX graphic to show the details better):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/28nk4jp1xhmo6hg/Dex2.png?dl=0


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

@DT123 , so what is your conclusion? Your charger is okay?


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 — MC3000 charger-analyzer: deep/exhaustive discharged NiMH?*

Yes - the charger seems to be okay. 
But I learnt a lot about how temperature can influence the measured result. 
The window was only a very short time open - so I even forgot that this happened before. Only this time I was accidently watching DEX and could see the drop as "live stream".


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



tjh said:


> Well, well well. What have we here? Some trickiness with a hex editor is certainly required!



Looks like the Russians managed to h*ck the firmware, interesting:





In the youtube comment section one can find download files. The exe with 4508CDE6 (410) seems to work fine on my unit.


----------



## Vap3on

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Benediction said:


> If the update fails, the system us *usually not bricked*. Yes there is a blank LCD screen but the bootLoader does not change the screen and bootloader is not overwritten by updating.



Thank you so much for the information, after trying several times (20-30) with 4 PCs and several USB cables I managed to successfully flash the MC3K all the cables used worked AOK when flashing various Android devices so I was a little confused as to why it failed so many times?


I successfully flashed it using the orginal PC (the flash failed on) + USB3 port the machine has fairly old and has one USB3 port and 3xUSB2 ports no matter what I did using the USB2 ports I recived the same error as when I orginally tried to flash (error peak data).


Gearbest did have a flash sale when I orginally posted I was tempted just to buy another as I really like the MC3K! Thanks once again! :nana:


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@Kreisl & others who are using DEX (v3.2.8):
If I use the MC3000 (non-set) configuration and try to save all slots individually then the data of slot #1 is always corrupt. 
It is shown data for slot 4 but repeating the data 4 times (instead of 3 hours there are 12 hours shown)
The other 3 osd files for the other slots are okay. I did not have the problem using the "MC3000 set". 
Did anyone else experienced this problem?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DT123 said:


> and try to save all slots individually


what do you mean by "to save"?
DEX allows "to save" slot info in many different file formats: RAW, NON-RAW, XLSX, DAT, CSV, BMP, JPEG, OSD, TXT, LOL, ETC 
please state exactly how you do the saving: Menu >> File >> ...

please *be detailed* so that we can readily try to reproduce what you're doing.


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

When I click on the "Save as" button I can choose only OSD.

I save the data by doing the following 2 steps:
1) in the first combobox i select the slot i want to save "1 : Slot 1"
2) then I click on "save as".

If I want to save as a set I choose in step 1) "5: Combi 5"

Is this the wrong way to save the data?


----------



## vicbin

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> Looks like the Russians managed to h*ck the firmware, interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the youtube comment section one can find download files. The exe with 4508CDE6 (410) seems to work fine on my unit.



Mind point the web link to that russian hack site ?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



DT123 said:


> When I click on the "Save as" button I can choose only OSD.
> 
> I save the data by doing the following 2 steps:
> 1) in the first combobox i select the slot i want to save "1 : Slot 1"
> 2) then I click on "save as".


Okay, now i understand what you're doing. Thanks for reporting your observation about DEX. "Save As: **.OSD*" is the correct way to save DEX-_sessions_; of course, a saved DEX-session includes all the data from the test run(s) within that DEX-session. If one is interested in the pure DEX-_data_, for example for post-processing in Excel, then one should save thru: Menu >> File >> Export >> CSV…, because Excel cannot open *.OSD-files. Sometimes it makes sense to save only the interesting/relevant DEX-test runs in a few separate CSV-files and discard the rest of the DEX-session; basically OSD is a container format and imho becomes convenient when the container contains several test runs instead of just 1 as in "1 : Slot 1". You could try to export to *.CSV and see if the *.CSV-file is "weird" too.

In any case i did the same DEX configuration (MC3000: non-set), started gathering (4x18650 discharge), stopped after a minute, selected "1 : Slot 1", went to "Save as..." and saved as _del.OSD_, exited DEX, double-clicked on _del.OSD_ to open it, and checked the graph and the table and couldn't see any irregularity, anything wrong. All good, all as expected.

Please feel free to upload&share your "weird" *.OSD-file (zippyshare.com , filehorst.de). Troubleshoot top-down approach would be: maybe the bug is in the DEX code or originates somehow from your PC system (hardware, cable, operating system). If you can reproduce the observation on various model PC systems, then one would swap the mc3k unit…etc.

DEX3.2.8 is optimized for FW1.12 and higher. I am assuming you're on FW1.12, r u?



vicbin said:


> Mind point the web link to that russian


http://forum.fonarevka.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=646

maybe they'll also **ck the forthcoming FW1.13 :devil:


----------



## ilgrank

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Hi
Given current PCLS 1.03 new 'feature' that does not allow programs longer than 240 minutes, I had to forcefully switch to DEX 3.2.8. (using FW1.12)
While the setup is quite simple, its use is not so straightforward..
I've configured the MC3000 and the communication is ok, but roughly 50% of the times when running a program the graph is not updated while the program runs.
Moreover, I've not found a way to insert a new program. I'm able to read the 4 slots current programs, but not alter them, and the "Set" button is always grayed out...
I'm missing something?
Thanks everyone!


----------



## DT123

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

@Kreisl:
I use Firmware 1.12

Here are the 4 files (the one for slot 1 is also much bigger): 
Slot 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6t1dr152snh6sr/Eneloop AAA - 25 - 01 Discharge 200.osd?dl=0
Slot 2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i2akyyiur008k2m/Eneloop AAA - 26 - 01 Discharge 200.osd?dl=0
Slot 3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ua0gg1134bzgjpv/Eneloop AAA - 27 - 01 Discharge 200.osd?dl=0
Slot 4: https://www.dropbox.com/s/69by82u6ydvgrju/Eneloop AAA - 28 - 01 Discharge 200.osd?dl=0

I opened the files within of DEX and not by doubleclick - but this shouldn't matter.
Theoretically - opening all 4 files should fill each slot with data and I could export data. But the 1st file is messed up. And this happens all the time. Atm I dont use slot 1 if I want to save individually.

My MC3000 does not work (is not recognised) on my Win 8.1 Computer. So I cannot test it there. 
Have to try a laptop in the next days.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



ilgrank said:


> Hi
> Given current PCLS 1.03 new 'feature' that does not allow programs longer than 240 minutes, I had to forcefully switch to DEX 3.2.8. (using FW1.12)
> While the setup is quite simple, its use is not so straightforward..
> I've configured the MC3000 and the communication is ok, but roughly 50% of the times when running a program the graph is not updated while the program runs.
> Moreover, I've not found a way to insert a new program. I'm able to read the 4 slots current programs, but not alter them, and the "Set" button is always grayed out...
> I'm missing something?
> Thanks everyone!


i see, CUT TIME in PCLS1.03 ranges from 0Min to 240Min. Maker's choice! i've added this questionable choice to de list.

the updating of the graph should be at 1Hz and in real-time. with so little information given from your part, i can only assume that it's something to do with your PC system (hardware, cable, operating system, Java Runtime Engine) which causes DEX to... You could swap the PC system and check again. [OT]With the existence of millions of PC hardware configurations and drivers, hundreds of operating systems and operating system versions, etc, i cannot expect that firmware updater exe, PCLS, Bluetooth app, or third-party Freeware can and will work flawlessly on all these systems, also because the PC hardware/drivers/OS _themselves _are flawed, not 100.000% bugfree. In practice all parties involved need to find a common ground, a common denominator, a low level where things can work out together.

an analogy is foreign language, say English as a foreign language, EFL. Where is the point in me studying, knowing and applying perfectly fitting vocabulary items, which reappear frequently enough in semi-intellectual US TV-drama series like The Good Wife, Madam Secretary, a. o. but when directly communicating with other foreigners (messenger chat, phone, eye to eye) i learn that they don't know the words which come out of my mouth? for effective communication to take place, both parties need to find a common denominator, and the more parties are involved, the lower gets the common ground of EFL. EFL levels are internationally standardized in A1 (total beginners), A2, B1, B2, C1, C2, D1, D2 (highest). in a random group of 1000 foreigners who once learned English in highschool and who all must understand unmistakably what you need to convey, you would have to speak/talk to the group in A1.

I am glad that the makers at least offer *1 *pretty much guaranteed or fully tested way to make things work: e.g. to install the new firmware, run PCLS/APP, run DEX. Silly example, if i have a MSX computer and want to run firmware updater exe on it, whose problem is that? [/OT]

"to insert a new program" .. i don't understand what you're trying to do. DEX can backup&restore programs. For the restore, the <set> button becomes available when you select the program from the drop-down menu. Please review the animated GIF again. Also, the restored program is, as with PCLS/APP, a temporary overwrite of the program settings in the _slot_; the _memory _of the 30 programs on the device is left untouched.



DT123 said:


> Here are the 4 files (the one for slot 1 is also much bigger):
> Slot 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6t1dr152snh6sr/Eneloop AAA - 25 - 01 Discharge 200.osd?dl=0


when i open that file, my DEX displays it as "4 : Slot 4". And now i understand what you meant with your observation, thanks! The full data set as a whole is sequentially reposted 3x after the original set, for a total of 4 100% identical sets, while the timer continues to count time linearly without this doubling/repetition. oic. In Excel, one could simply truncate the data compilation after the first set. I am guessing that the bug (DEX bug? - my guess!) could be fixed with a revised DEX version. Please do report whether you can reproduce the bug on other PC systems.


----------



## DT123

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



ilgrank said:


> I've configured the MC3000 and the communication is ok, but roughly 50% of the times when running a program the graph is not updated while the program runs.


I have the same issue when I recorded something before. (Start, stop, Start). 
For the second start it happens very often that the graph is not updated.
So I always restart DEX before I want to start a new recording.


----------



## DT123

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> when i open that file, my DEX displays it as "4 : Slot 4". And now i understand what you meant with your observation, thanks! The full data set as a whole is sequentially reposted 3x after the original set, for a total of 4 100% identical sets, while the timer continues to count time linearly without this doubling/repetition. oic. In Excel, one could simply truncate the data compilation after the first set. I am guessing that the bug (DEX bug? - my guess!) could be fixed with a revised DEX version. Please do report whether you can reproduce the bug on other PC systems.


I saved Slot 1 (at least that was the aim). But the data is the data of slot 4 (but 4 times). So the shown slot is correct.
I just managed to run DEX on my Win 8.1 system by reinstalling it (but this time the 32-bit version). The 64-bit version failed to start (no exception - nothing).
I only hate that DEX does not have a support forum. 
With a mailinglist I feel somehow 20 years younger ;-) but still don't like it


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



DT123 said:


> I just managed to run DEX on my Win 8.1 system by reinstalling it (but this time the 32-bit version).


all right, let us know how it goes, i.e. if the 'four-graphs-bug' is still there...


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

kreisl.
My MC3000 is from the June production but has lots of clear grease on the rails easily seen through the slots. I read in one of your earlier posts that the factory had quit applying that before the June run. Did they start using the expensive conducting grease you spoke of or am I going to have accuracy problems due to poor conductivity?

Anyone else have grease on their updated production units?
Thanks.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Torchmee said:


> has lots of clear grease on the rails


if your unit has grease, then it can't be from the June production *afaik*. Did your unit come with FW1.10? That's the most convenient way to pinpoint production revision. yet the only 100.0% fail-safe method of knowing what's inside, is, obviously, by having a look inside. Yes i would expect reduced accuracy with the greased rails.

opening the charger for maintaining the rails and sliders is easy enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojjkFgjl1gs
re-assembling the rails and sliders a matter of practice and patience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kctg9JlaB4


----------



## DT123

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> all right, let us know how it goes, i.e. if the 'four-graphs-bug' is still there...



On my windows 8.1 machine I am still unable to use the charger. 

I get the DeviceFailedEnumeration error:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pkp0lduh6cne9lx/USBview error.png?dl=0

Any idea what I can do?

On a laptop (Windows 7, 32 bit) I could test DEX again. And I do not have the problem with saving slot 1.
So it is caused by something (misconfiguration?) on my 1st computer?!
I reinstalled already DEX - it did not change anything.

Is there any information which folders & registry entries I have to delete for a full DEX removal?
But it would be nice if I could at least backup the 30 programs.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



DT123 said:


> On a laptop (Windows 7, 32 bit) I could test DEX again. And I do not have the problem with saving slot 1.


that's a relief then. your charger (hardware/firmware) doesn't seem the problem.
has to be something about your 1st computer then, no? i could even doubt that the maker of DEX, who mostly works on an Apple OS computer, would be able to help out. What one or i would do in your place: installing a fresh WinOS parallel boot system on the same machine; that's exactly my PC, a classic triple-boot system. If you can make any fresh WinOS work with DEX on your 1st computer, then you'd know that the problem is not your computer hardware.

I don't have special information for full DEX removal, don't mind registry entries.
You can check if this folder is deleted/empty after uninstalling the software (example is winxp geman):
C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\krisell\Anwendungsdaten\DataExplorer\*.*
The text file with the backed up programs is called "_MC3000_Slot_Programs.xml_". 
The file has placeholders for up to 30 programs in coded :devil: format: if someone tries to modify the contents of that file e.g. with_ notepad.exe_, then DEX will know that the file has been tampered with. 



DT123 said:


> But I guess that I can change names and rearrange the 30 programs.


"sorry can't comment on that. that's classified information."
_( this is kresil's joking way to say that he wouldn't know lol and that nobody should tamper with the file anyway )_


----------



## DT123

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> The text file with the backed up programs is called "_MC3000_Slot_Programs.xml_".
> The file has placeholders for up to 30 programs in coded :devil: format: if someone tries to modify the contents of that file e.g. with_ notepad.exe_, then DEX will know that the file has been tampered with.


But I guess that I can change names and rearrange the 30 programs. 
I also think what caused my problem. (I compared the MC3000.xml on two different computer)
I will check that tomorrow but it seems so whether I caused it.


----------



## DT123

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

I am pretty sure that it is a bug in DEX.

@Kreisl:
Can you backup the MC3000.xml file and do the following:

1) open Device Properties Editor
2) choose the tab 'Outlet-channel/configuration'
3) Chooses tab "1 Slot 1"
4) Change "Type_outlet" to "type_config"
5) Change to tab "2 Slot 2" (not sure whether this step has to be done)
6) Close (do not save!!!)
7) DEX tells you that the file has been changed and ask you whether you want to save changes. Answer "No"!

DEX does not care whether you said "no" - it will save the changes to the xml.
And with "type_config" for slot 1 you will get certainly what I experienced.

I didn't verify that yet. The charger is running. But I am pretty sure that this is causing the problem.



> sorry can't comment on that. that's classified information.


I will try out - you could have saved me 5 minutes of my time ...
But I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be possible.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



DT123 said:


> But I am pretty sure that this is causing the problem.


Hi, i reproduced the 'four-graphs-bug' with your above instructions. This per se is not a bug but the expected behavior when you tamper with the Device Properties Editor. But i agree that it is a bug that DEX saves the modified XML, even though we clicked on 'Close' (not 'Save') and clicked on 'No' (=Not save). Of course, with after fully uninstalling and then installing a fresh DEX copy on the compouter, one would get the original XML file and not experience the four-graphs-"bug".

I'll drop a message to the DEX maker about the XML-Saving-bug, thanks!


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

kreisl. Thanks for the reply.

It came with 1.10 firmware and the bottom case has the recessed area for the label. Was the recessed label area case used before the June production? 

I do not see any evidence on mine of thermal grease around the metal Battery temp sensor strips, is that only on your example pics on page 119?

I will disassemble if I have too but would rather not. Actually the disassembly is no problem, it's the assembly I lack the patience for. I'm disappointed since I specifically checked with the dealer before ordering about the 1.10 firmware and recessed label which was really all he could check plus he received this shipment in November so I thought I was good to go on the latest production. My serial is 000978578, maybe a member who has a unit a little earlier than mine can confirm theirs has the latest changes.

If I don't take it apart is it worth it to use Q tips and alcohol thru the slots to clean off as much grease as possible? I won't be able to clean the back of the slides but it looks like the connection is made on the top of them?

SkyRC emailed this which unfortunately does not confirm anything for sure: 
"I have tried to check your serial number and yours *seems* to fall within the time between May and June. If your original firmware was FW1.10, then your unit is *almost* guaranteed to originate from the June production. If it was FW1.03 or lower, then your unit *is* guaranteed from May or an earlier production batch."


----------



## Benediction

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

More info on burping - seems it has a history going back to the late 1960s - and a bit of a sordid history it is.

I *might *just be posting a link to fake news but here is the link - Burp Charging History


> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]After the patent was awarded he took it to General Electric, then the leading Ni-Cd manufacturer in the US, where it was analyzed in detail. General Electric disappointed Burkett when, after extensive testing, they could find no conclusive evidence that the negative pulse offered any advantage. Burkett then proceeded to find other interested parties that would be less critical, and take his word for the phenomena. He sustained the venture for several years mostly by obtaining government contracts to further study the effect of the negative pulse technique for both sealed and vented Ni-Cd systems.[/FONT]


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

The list of changes was a summary of all changes which were introduced at some point between Nov-Jun. Afaik the recessed label cases were available shortly before the start of June production. The temp sensors have thermal grease which is hidden under the metal stripe. FW1.10 was not completed until June, the rail grease and the low serial number point to early June then. With all this information i would bet my 2 nuts that your unit has the new plastic cases; that's what counts, never mind the rail grease lol. hey, btw for checking if you have the new plastic cases you don't need to _disassemble _the entire charger: you only need to _open _the case (6 screws), gently lift the PCB 5-10mm at the height of the temp sensors, shine with an AAA flashright at the spring posts and identify if they are the old or the new build. but yeah, if the rail grease bugs you, then ..etc..

It would be sufficient to clean off the grease with a Q-tip thru the slots. That's what i do when i clean my other 4-bay chargers too.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Not sure if this helps you, Torchmee, but my S/N is 978951 which I bought in August and came with FW 1.10 and the recessed area for the label on the back. Also, I bought it from NKON who kreisl assured us was known to have only the June production. I can't really see any grease on the rails.




Torchmee said:


> kreisl. Thanks for the reply.
> 
> My serial is 000978578, maybe a member who has a unit a little earlier than mine can confirm theirs has the latest changes.
> 
> SkyRC emailed this which unfortunately does not confirm anything for sure:
> "I have tried to check your serial number and yours *seems* to fall within the time between May and June. If your original firmware was FW1.10, then your unit is *almost* guaranteed to originate from the June production. If it was FW1.03 or lower, then your unit *is* guaranteed from May or an earlier production batch."


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



7histology said:


> Not sure if this helps you, Torchmee, but my S/N is 978951 which I bought in August and came with FW 1.10 and the recessed area for the label on the back. Also, I bought it from NKON who kreisl assured us was known to have only the June production. I can't really see any grease on the rails.



Thanks for the info. Yours is 373 after mine. Maybe they just stopped using grease somewhere in that serial range and the rest of the components are the same.


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> The list of changes was a summary of all changes which were introduced at some point between Nov-Jun. Afaik the recessed label cases were available shortly before the start of June production. The temp sensors have thermal grease which is hidden under the metal stripe. FW1.10 was not completed until June, the rail grease and the low serial number point to early June then. With all this information i would bet my 2 nuts that your unit has the new plastic cases; that's what counts, never mind the rail grease lol. hey, btw for checking if you have the new plastic cases you don't need to _disassemble _the entire charger: you only need to _open _the case (6 screws), gently lift the PCB 5-10mm at the height of the temp sensors, shine with an AAA flashright at the spring posts and identify if they are the old or the new build. but yeah, if the rail grease bugs you, then ..etc..
> 
> It would be sufficient to clean off the grease with a Q-tip thru the slots. That's what i do when i clean my other 4-bay chargers too.



Well for safety's sake it might be wise to only bet one of the nuts in case you are wrong! Of course squirrels are good about saving extras everywhere. Anyway thanks for the suggestions.

Question about the add-on power supply switch you detailed in post 1959 on page 66? I would like to try one. Do you like it in the setup and are you still using it?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Just flash my HW1.3 to FW1.2 in Windows 10x64 with no problems.

John.


----------



## Benediction

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

What is the correlation between the impedance check numbers others have reported for NIMH on the MH-C9000, stated in volts (examples: 2.11, 2.43VDC) and the ohm rating reported by the MC3000? Is there any? Is one not as reliable, etc. Other questions that might arise.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Is it possible to charge an li-ion cell to 4.1v instead of 4.2v to extend the cycle life of my battery`s

Thanks

John.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Is it possible to charge an li-ion cell to 4.1v instead of 4.2v to extend the cycle life of my battery`s


"short answer: yes." ( _i am not claiming this yes. it is an answer based on BU-808. best, kresil _)
long answer: BU-808

_personally i don't trust any information posted on the BU site because the author is the maker and seller of CADEX battery charger-analyzers, a commercial for-profit company!! best, kreils_


----------



## Torchmee

*V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

The latest firmware V1.13 for MC3000 is available now.​ Download the upgrade package from the link below and try the new functions.​ 
http://www.skyrc.com/download/MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.13.rar

Apart from bug fixes the visible changes are as follows:​ 1.Fixing the BATT IR display bug.​ 2.Fixing the switch of beeping for screensaver.​ 3.In GSV, add an option Save To: {Slot|All Slots|Ready}which determines the default setting of SAVE TOin SPV

Manual
http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product/download&download_id=168


----------



## Benediction

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

Anyone getting new *fascinating*  results from the 1.13 firmware?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



Benediction said:


> Anyone getting new *fascinating*  results from the 1.13 firmware?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgTvPVhkjIE11111

:tinfoil:


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



kreisl said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgTvPVhkjIE11111
> 
> :tinfoil:



kreisl.
While you are here, Question about the add-on power supply switch you detailed in post 1959 on page 66? I would like to try one. Do you like it in the setup and are you still using it?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



Torchmee said:


> Do you like it in the setup and are you still using it?


sorry for the late answer, saw your question before. i wanted to get the above video out first. so now the answer:

yes i like it BERY much in the setup, and i still use it! it is permanently connected to the sky power adapter, i never take it off.

hope this answers your question.

btw, the sparks that we often experience when plugging adapters to gird or adapter plugs to charger, it is the same with all my other 4-bay chargers (xtar, pspower, a.o.). so with this red switch i usually follow this order: 1) leave the switch in the OFF position, 2) connect adapter with charger, 3) connect adapter with gird, 4) turn the switch ON. there will still be a power surge at the very moment of switching but it is internal and one cannot see it.

go ahead and try the switch. i like it, and it is inexpensive. and if the switch breaks one day in future, it is easily replaced by a new switch. so it's better to have such a switch outside of the sky adapter than an integrated switch, which would be harder to replace/repair.

good solution and a good find by the original poster UPz, thanks again!!


----------



## TomElf

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

This seems to be the thread for everything and anything on the MC3000. Sorry, didn't read this entire thread, it's really big, but checked last couple pages. I got my MC3000 in September, but only started using it the last couple weeks. The other day the spring in slot #1 stopped working - now the slider has no force at all. So of course I opened the unit up - not bad, 6 screws on the back, 4 under the corner bumpers. What I found is not easily repairable - the plastic stem for slot #1 that the spring loops over snapped off, gone, and lifting up on the main circuit board, slot #4's plastic stem is broken, but still hanging on - probably won't last long. 
I think without a spring, the slot is pretty useless. The SkyRC.com website doesn't list any service or warrantee info I could find. I wouldn't mind repairing it myself if it doesn't get too crazy.

I got a lot of 4 cell lights, and was hoping to use this as my primary 4 cell charger since it can handle high amps so well. Has anyone has this experience, any ideas of what to do?

ohhh no. I bought mine at GearBest and I see they sell the case only for $20? Oh boy...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

sorry to hear. can you confirm that your unit is the older production revision?, see for comparison: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-new ?


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

kreisl.
I agree with everything you said about the switch. Good that the 3000 has the type of supply we can use such a switch on.
Wish I could use one on my Opus and La Crosse units.

As you said the spark is occurring in the switch we just can't see it. I would rather have it there than in the outlet while I'm fumbling trying to get the plug inserted! The actual switch you have was not available so I got this one which has a different design with a smaller red rocker for $1.30 on Aliexpress:





The video you linked to shows how accurate the 3000 is compared to other brands. Would the figures have been different with 1.12 firmware?


----------



## TomElf

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



kreisl said:


> sorry to hear. can you confirm that your unit is the older production revision?, see for comparison: http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-new ?


Oh my, that is one huge post. Mine has the new metal inserts in the battery slots for the temp sensors, but I'd say it has the old less robust posts that snap easy.

Also, one of the threaded posts for a center screw (not one of the corners) broke off. Hoping it wasn't so needed because the screw can no longer thread.

My SN is 000909045, if that helps.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



Torchmee said:


> kreisl.Would the figures have been different with 1.12 firmware?


The figures would have been the same because firmware upgrades don't include a calibration reset.



TomElf said:


> My SN is 000909045, if that helps.


That sounds on the low side. Yours is from the earlier production. The middle posts are not needed but you should contact your vendor in any case. It's the vendor who helps you, not the sky factory.


----------



## TomElf

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

So what does that mean? The old units broke posts easy, within the first couple weeks of usage? Was this common? The firmware vers is 1.03, so seems like an older production lot.
I'll try GearBest support. Hoping that replacement case they sell will fit I guess.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



TomElf said:


> I'll try GearBest support. Hoping that replacement case they sell will fit I guess.


Yours is from GB? OIC. Afaik you can get them to agree to a 20US$ partial refund which you can then use to fund the replacement case which they sell as spare part. Not every sales rep at GB is familiar with mc3k, so you'd need to state your warranty claim clearly anyway. GB is a huge place with hundreds of reps, so good luck!

Yes it _was _common enough. A shame.


----------



## TomElf

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

Ahh, ok. Wish I would have found this thread first before ordering. Definitely sounds like NKON is the place to buy them. I see the say specifically what the firmware and hardware versions are. I have an account with them - I know the shipping fee can be high, but they got good prices.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

NKON is currently out of stock afaik, which leaves akkuteile as an equally priced seller (after 10% flashlight fans folum discount code) for the DEU region. i don't know about international shipping from that place though.

afaik GB has the latest production version in stock too by now but it is easier to communicate with a vendor not as Far East


----------



## ormandj

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



Benediction said:


> Anyone getting new *fascinating*  results from the 1.13 firmware?



What specifically are you alluding to? Is there something you've noticed that's not working properly? I'm holding off upgrading until there's a few good confirmations and your post gives me pause (and I'm sure others).


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

For folks in the USA, DC Workshop (DanaCo) has the new 3000 version in stock for $80 plus actual shipping. I got mine for $85 delivered. Warranty would be handled in country thru him. This pricing is not available from their store on Amazon since they take a 15% cut. I don't know if its against forum rules so I won't post the direct contact info but you can PM me for it. I am not affiliated in any way with this seller but he is super nice and has a good reputation on the forums.


----------



## Benediction

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

Nevermind


----------



## Benediction

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



ormandj said:


> What specifically are you alluding to? Is there something you've noticed that's not working properly? I'm holding off upgrading until there's a few good confirmations and your post gives me pause (and I'm sure others).



Truthfully I was hoping perhaps *more* than just the numbered items on post #6 (Last edited by kreisl; 12-13-2016 at 05:39 PM.) was implemented, but not clearly defined at SkyRC website.


----------



## ormandj

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



Benediction said:


> Truthfully I was hoping perhaps *more* than just the numbered items on post #6 (Last edited by kreisl; 12-13-2016 at 05:39 PM.) was implemented, but not clearly defined at SkyRC website.


Ahh OK, I was hoping you hadn't tried 1.13 and encountered bad problems not in 1.12. Thank you for clarifying!


----------



## gyzmo2002

Torchmee said:


> For folks in the USA, DC Workshop (DanaCo) has the new 3000 version in stock for $80 plus actual shipping. I got mine for $85 delivered. Warranty would be handled in country thru him. This pricing is not available from their store on Amazon since they take a 15% cut. I don't know if its against forum rules so I won't post the direct contact info but you can PM me for it. I am not affiliated in any way with this seller but he is super nice and has a good reputation on the forums.



Check post #3824 if you have to deal with Gearbest


----------



## DT123

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



kreisl said:


> btw, the sparks that we often experience when plugging adapters to gird or adapter plugs to charger, it is the same with all my other 4-bay chargers (xtar, pspower, a.o.). so with this red switch i usually follow this order: 1) leave the switch in the OFF position, 2) connect adapter with charger, 3) connect adapter with gird, 4) turn the switch ON. there will still be a power surge at the very moment of switching but it is internal and one cannot see it.


Would using an UPS also solve this problem?


----------



## OttaMattaPia

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

Has anyone else had USB port failures with SkyRC chargers that have a PC Link?

The USB port mounts are woefully inadequate and it takes VERY little to break the connections to the circuit board.

If you did have a failure (of any kind), were you able to get warranty support?

Thanks


----------



## OttaMattaPia

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



DT123 said:


> Would using an UPS also solve this problem?




I don't see how. To the charger, the wall outlet is the same as the outlet on the UPS isn't it?

Unless you're planning to leave your charger ON all the time?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



OttaMattaPia said:


> Has anyone else had USB port failures with SkyRC chargers that have a PC Link?
> 
> The USB port mounts are woefully inadequate and it takes VERY little to break the connections to the circuit board.


you mean in general, sky chargers with a PC Link connection?


Have you disassembled MC3000 and come to that conclusion after careful inspection?

Well, i have disassembled, and cannot confirm your assessment. SORRY.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



kreisl said:


> btw, the sparks that we often experience when plugging adapters to gird or adapter plugs to charger, it is the same with all my other 4-bay chargers (xtar, pspower, a.o.). so with this red switch i usually follow this order: 1) leave the switch in the OFF position, 2) connect adapter with charger, 3) connect adapter with gird, 4) turn the switch ON. there will still be a power surge at the very moment of switching but it is internal and one cannot see it



There's no need for a switch if you are going to make the DC connection before the AC connection.

The sparking is caused by high inrush current when large capacitors initially charge up. This was discussed extensively in the past in this thread, e.g. see here.

Though probably not of concern here, it is worth mentioning that when shifting the sparking to the switch, one needs to be sure that the switch is rated for the inrush current (this can be up to 50A for medium sized SMPS). 

The inrush current for chargers is surely much less so likely no problem even for these cheap switches. They will probably fail mechanically before electrically. But who know what one gets for such a cheap price. Has anyone disassembled one?


----------



## Benediction

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*





An inexpensive power-strip would also solve the sparking problem.


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



Gauss163 said:


> There's no need for a switch if you are going to make the DC connection before the AC connection.
> 
> The sparking is caused by high inrush current when large capacitors initially charge up. This was discussed extensively in the past in this thread, e.g. see here.
> 
> Though probably not of concern here, it is worth mentioning that when shifting the sparking to the switch, one needs to be sure that the switch is rated for the inrush current (this can be up to 50A for medium sized SMPS).
> 
> The inrush current for chargers is surely much less so likely no problem even for these cheap switches. They will probably fail mechanically before electrically. But who know what one gets for such a cheap price. Has anyone disassembled one?


Haven't seen the inside but ordered 2 to make sure I got one that works! They are made for a PlayStation 3 which would seem to pull 3A or less through the 110v power supply built into it. Guess I'll find out.


----------



## Benediction

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

Would it be able to *electrically *handle a 9v rechargeable NimH or Lithium?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*

No.

See also last faq


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello, today I received my 1.65 NiZn https://m.fasttech.com/p/1189300
Can I charge them with this charger? With what options? NiMH?
Thanks.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Use the NiZn setting, It worked ok on my NiZn AAA cells.

Though NiZn cells are not very resilient.

John,



morcegolas said:


> Hello, today I received my 1.65 NiZn https://m.fasttech.com/p/1189300
> Can I charge them with this charger? With what options? NiMH?
> Thanks.


----------



## morcegolas

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I forgot that I have hide the NiZn in setup. :/
Termination should I use 0.00?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

0 . 0 5


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

And don't charge them too fast NiZn cells are a bit delicate.

And dont run them empty, It`s a bit of a waste of time buying NiZn cells really.

John.


----------



## SPecqueur

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



OttaMattaPia said:


> Has anyone else had USB port failures with SkyRC chargers that have a PC Link?
> 
> The USB port mounts are woefully inadequate and it takes VERY little to break the connections to the circuit board.
> 
> If you did have a failure (of any kind), were you able to get warranty support?
> 
> Thanks



Hi,
Yes i have same issue. I verify it by pressing carefully on the top of the connector, after a few tries to upgrade firmware with few cables and having no recon of drivers or "err vector" in upgrading.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



SPecqueur said:


> on the top of the connector,


interesting.

i have a collection of 6 units of different production dates and counting and encountered no problem with the USB socket. you are the very first in this thread with such a report or similar. but yes you will need a premium data cable for secure data transfer. a premium charge cable won't do the trick neither will Win8.1 or Win9.

OTTAMATTAPIA does not own the SkyRC MC3000 charger-analyzer.


----------



## Sharkie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I tried to upgrade to version 1.13 and my charger is a brick now.

I used windows 8.1
It started with err 1 then restated err5 and then err at half point.

I pressed the enter button and connected power. Tried again and again. Now nothing works, I can't imagine such a bad process in 2016 on a unit that is sold in the market.

What can you suggest ?

Thanks


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I suggest you read back a few pages as the way to fix a "brick" has been posted already. It's not a brick.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Sharkie said:


> i need to ask why can 8.1 not be supported in 2016 ?


Believe me on the moon the NASA doesn't use win10 nor win8.1 either but the most lower level OS possible!
Such scientific reasoning during critical data transfer is independent from human era.

KISS principle


----------



## Sharkie

kreisl said:


> Sharkie, Win8.1 is really not supported.
> If you could do serious pcls work with your USB cable before, then let's assume that the problem is not your cable.
> Please try with other computer.
> A clean Win7 is okay too but WinXP is preferred because it is lower level computing/coding and fail-proofer for firmware transfers.



Humm i upgraded 2 pc to win10 and can't go back. 

I really need to find a friend with a old PC. 

Ok i need to ask why can 8.1 not be supported in 2016 ?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

I flashed the last 2 firmware in win10 x64 with no problems.

John.


----------



## tjh

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I flashed the last 2 firmware in win10 x64 with no problems.
> 
> John.


This. 

It works fine.

Remove all other USB devices, turn off usb3 and use a good quality cable.


----------



## Sharkie

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I flashed the last 2 firmware in win10 x64 with no problems.
> 
> John.



Thanks for the idea, 
I took a slow PC upgraded to win 10. 
Used the enter and connect to start the charger and transferred the file to the win10 PC.

Pressed upgrade and bingo !!! 

Have 1.13 just in time for the Christmas party ! 

Thanks to all your answers and tricks on december 25th


----------



## ormandj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Believe me on the moon the NASA doesn't use win10 nor win8.1 either but the most lower level OS possible!
> Such scientific reasoning during critical data transfer is independent from human era.
> 
> KISS principle


This is a poor analogy. Flashing firmware isn't sending something to the moon, and Windows XP was EOLd in 2014, W7 lost mainstream support in 2015. The firmware update process is poor, and a simple software update for the flashing utility would resolve the vast majority of problems people have flashing this device. It isn't rational to expect people to have computers laying around running XP/7.

On a different note, if you all want to solve the inrush current problem properly vs a switch, just grab an appropriate NTC thermistor and put it inline with the supply. It will limit the inrush by being quite resistive when cool and as it warms from the energy being dissipated it will lower resistance allowing more and more to pass. Most of the PSUs I build use this simple mechanism to limit inrush current. I also tag the large filter caps with bleeder resistors to discharge them when power is removed, but I suspect just limiting the inrush phenomena will be sufficient on these devices.

I have not done this mod (so consider it untested) on my MC3000, but probably will next time I feel like dealing with the process of reassembling it afterwards.


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Believe me on the moon the NASA doesn't use win10 nor win8.1 either but the most lower level OS possible!
> Such scientific reasoning during critical data transfer is independent from human era.
> 
> KISS principle



Cmon buddy this is plain BS.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



romteb said:


> plain BS.









😇


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Question: In DEX, when viewing the 4 slot assigned programs (or choosing others via popup)

I can *rename* any program just fine
I can save the group of 30 programs to a file
I can copy the settings for any program to clipboard
*Can I edit *the details of any program before [set]? -Example: read program from slot or choose via popup - edit DELTA PEAK: value - set program -- or must all editing occur on the MC3000 buttons?
If yes, how?

I also have tried MC3000 Monitor v1.03.
Only once, was I able to edit the *temporary* setting for a slot.
I edited the settings, changed the type to discharge, edited various numbers of the change - then clicked [send to device].
On the device itself, I then checked settings for slot 1's assigned parameters to use in slot #1 (can't really be called a 'program' as that has another meaning for MC3000)
On the device I then attempted to *further* edit the assigned parameters, but that automatically started editing the PROGRAM assigned to that slot instead.
Back to the PC-Montor software - click [load from device] - then make a few changes to slot #1 setup - click [send to device] - OK message
On the device I clicked button #1 to check parameters - the new parameters from PC-send did *not show up*.

So in summary - Apparently I can edit temp settings for a slot only once (or so far on slot #1 anyway)
Have not tried - exit PC-Montor and run again - power-cycle MC3000 and try again


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

you seem to be new to the not-on-the-device-programming topic, so you're still wondering about questions which other users are clear about long ago. the principle is easy to understand and looks like you figured it out all right:

1) the 30 _device programs_ are saved in the device memory and that memory remains unchanged unless one edits the program (and re-saves it) on the device thru the plasticky buttons
2) (up to) 4 of those programs are seen in the slots, thus the 4 programs become _slot programs_ so to speak. think of it as: the memory (_earth, underground_) sends a copy of the program to the slot (_floor, surface, window_), where the copy can be accessed, see 3) 
3) only these 4 slot programs can be <read> by DEX/PCLS/APP
4) when DEX/PCLS/APP <set> slot programs, they do so by overwriting the present slot programs temporarily (until someone plays with the plasticky buttons at which point all(?) slots revert to the original device program). see 1), none of the 30 device programs gets changed in the device memory.
5) PCLS/APP allow to edit the read slot programs and <set> the slots with edited versions temporarily (until someone plays etc). DEX can also <set> the slots with programs temporarily; it's just that DEX has no way of letting the user edit the settings. That's why i like calling the DEX function "Backup & Restore". Yet the "Restore" function is limited to setting slot programs and not changing the memory, not changing the device programs.
6) on does not need to power-cycle the charger. playing with the plasticky buttons, like switching the view from TOV to SPV back and forth or something, usually suffices to reset the slots. So, unless you want to reset the slots, you should not play with the buttons when operating the charger thru PCLS/DEX/APP.
7) DEX automatically saves your <save>'d programs all in 1 XML file. you really cannot edit that XML file without compromising its integrity. leave the XML file alone.


I hope this answers your questions?


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Those questions yes - thank you kreisl

New questions: Data explorer version 3.2.8.
4 slot programs running.
one of the slots finishes - end of charge or discharge or cycling - whatever - end of program - symbol for program shown inverted.
in dex, after this ending, can't choose individual slots to look a their graph - for a fraction of a second you can change to other slot - but then dex jumps back to only displaying the finished slot - with no post program graphing (ie: the voltage of the finished battery after a discharge is rising slowly)


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Benediction said:


> but then dex jumps back to only displaying the finished slot - with no post program graphing


1) i understand your description, what you are saying. i have enough experience with DEX to directly get what you are talking about.
2) i cannot confirm that buggy behavior (anymore) on my system. i experienced similar bugs maybe in earlier DEX versions but not anymore.
3) there are 2 MC3000 entries in the "Device selection dialog". you could try the other entry next time. my preferred one is "M3000-Set".
4) give yourself more time with figuring out the usage of DEX. DEX has 2 drop-down menus. The middle one is about tests, the left one is about slots.
5) before you ever close or exit DEX, make sure that you hit the button "Stop gathering" first. then exit/close DEX. then restart DEX for a clean retry.
6) after all, the author reserves the right that there may still be a bug in the MC3000/DEX implementation, something which i haven't come across yet or which i cannot reproduce. if i cannot reproduce your bug, i cannot report it.


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ok full disclosure.

MC3000: Firmware 1.13
Win 7 wsp1 64 bit - all updates to 12/16/2016.
Data Explorer v3.2.8 64 bit - downloaded/installed today
Java *JRE* v8.111 64 bit installed

I changed the device in device selection to MC3000-Set as you suggested - had been MC3000.
Launched - exited.
Launched - Start gathering - 4 programs were already running on device (discharging only then stop)
Slot #2 reached final cutoff voltage and ended on device. Down arrow symbol for "discharge" changed from black on white background to white on black (ie: done)
Data explorer display started displaying slot #2 information only - solid lines across the screen - essentially no previous graph
Popup menu left showed "2: Slot 2"
Popup menu right showed "*188*) NiMH - Discharge" - then graph "blinked" - then popup right menu showed "*189*) NiMH - Discharge" - then "190) NiMH - Discharge"
so what I suspect is happening is some message from device (MC3000) is somehow telling DataExplorer some new ?operation? began and then ended, over and over in slot #2.

Is the MC3000 sending the info or is DataExplorer mis-interpreting the info - I can't tell.
Press CTRL-left arrow - graph for slot 1 displays for 1 second or less - then left-popup again shows slot #2 and right-popup shows a higher numbered "###) NiMH - Discharge"


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

5) before you ever close or exit DEX, make sure that you hit the button "Stop gathering" first. then exit/close DEX. then restart DEX for a clean retry.

also:
4) give yourself more time with figuring out the usage of DEX.


----------



## Andrey

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Benediction said:


> popup right menu showed "*189*) NiMH - Discharge" - then "190) NiMH - Discharge"


I remember running into a similar situation. It appears the DEX has entered some state causing it to generate a separate dataset for each reading from MC3K -- 1 per second! Of course, shortly DEX maxes out the number of datasets possible per file/DEX session. Normally, you have no more than 5 datasets: one for each active slot and a combined one 'all slots'.

Definitely a DEX bug. :green: But, since it is difficult to reproduce and, therefore, fix, it is much easier to work around it.
For this purpose I developed a DEX practice similar to the one described by Kreisl:
- Always have a clean DEX session before initiating recording. Meaning:- Make sure data gathering is stopped AND:​- Choose File -> New from the menu or restart DEX (this resets the graphic template) OR
- Save current file if needed and delete all datasets using the trash can icon on the toolbar (this preserves the graphic template).
In this case make sure to use 'Save As' option later to save the new data to a different file.​- Start all MC3K programs only using the DEX 'start gathering' button.

While it is possible to create multiple datasets per slot in the same DEX session/file, I chose to have no more than one. This prevents confusion and hitting the above mentioned bug.


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Andrey said:


> I remember running into a similar situation. It appears the DEX has entered some state causing it to generate a separate dataset for each reading from MC3K -- 1 per second! Of course, shortly DEX maxes out the number of datasets possible per file/DEX session. Normally, you have no more than 5 datasets: one for each active slot and a combined one 'all slots'.



Andrey is correct - 1 every second. 
Tried removing batteries from slotps.
Unplugged USB connector from the MC3000 and still new datasets are appearing 1/sec, about 10 more appeared then finally stopped.
I thought I had stopped-started DEX just before this, but I will double check next time.

Also, just *before *this - I uninstalled the 64 bit DEX and 64 bit Java-JRE and installed 32 bit versions of both, so it affects both 64 and 32 bit versions.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You'll figure it out. 
Just don't touch the plasticky buttons 
And only use the Dex button start stop
And always hit the Dex button stop before quitting Dex.
One must not just click on the x button of the window to quit Dex. Must not!!


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ormandj said:


> It isn't rational to expect people to have computers laying around running XP/7.


I disagree. Stats from several sources show W7 is still the most used operating system in the world.

Figures from Nov 2016 world wide:
Most popular operating system - W7 40%, W10 26%.
Market share - W7 47%, W10 24%, XP still has 8.63% vs W8.1 8%

There are twice as many operating W7/XP machines "laying around" as W10 so it is very rational to expect the large majority of people will use it to flash their MC3000.

My experience with W10 takes me back to W7 for all of my uses.


----------



## ormandj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Torchmee said:


> I disagree. Stats from several sources show W7 is still the most used operating system in the world.
> 
> Figures from Nov 2016 world wide:
> Most popular operating system - W7 40%, W10 26%.
> Market share - W7 47%, W10 24%, XP still has 8.63% vs W8.1 8%
> 
> There are twice as many operating W7/XP machines "laying around" as W10 so it is very rational to expect the large majority of people will use it to flash their MC3000.
> 
> My experience with W10 takes me back to W7 for all of my uses.


By those stats, just over 50% have W7/XP (who use Windows) so if you want to be pedantic re: "most", you'd be correct. I'm sure you can find figures showing differences one way or another in usage but it doesn't change my point.

Many people will not have XP/7 machines laying around and an updated firmware flashing tool that supported the newer operating systems would go a long way to resolving the large number of firmware flashing issues reported in this thread. There is no reason it wouldn't work fine for those who prefer to stay on XP/7, but it would go a long way towards removing a lot of user frustration for those on 8/10. The numbers are going to continue to swing towards the newer OSs, as well.

FWIW I'm a Linux user and had to borrow a laptop (couldn't find anybody with XP/7 so had to try a few W10 laptops until I found one that would work after multiple attempts and the recovery procedure) to flash this thing with. A next generation charger that exposes itself as a USB storage device and lets you transfer the firmware to it then does flashing internally would be my true preference, but would require a HW update that is unlikely to happen, hence the flashing utility update suggestion.

I can't see why anybody wouldn't want a better tool that works on the newer Windows OSs other than perhaps the mfg. due to cost vs. reward balance sheets. It's always interesting to me when consumers want to argue against improvements that benefit the consumer. This thread has plenty of examples throughout demonstrating the usefulness of a more robust flashing utility since an updated charger revision using an OS agnostic method isn't going to happen any time soon. That said, I doubt an updated firmware utility is on the way either.


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Torchmee said:


> I disagree. Stats from several sources show W7 is still the most used operating system in the world.
> 
> Figures from Nov 2016 world wide:
> Most popular operating system - W7 40%, W10 26%.
> Market share - W7 47%, W10 24%, XP still has 8.63% vs W8.1 8%
> 
> There are twice as many operating W7/XP machines "laying around" as W10 so it is very rational to expect the large majority of people will use it to flash their MC3000.
> 
> My experience with W10 takes me back to W7 for all of my uses.


You have to have that broken down by geographical region to get an accurate picture. Even if the stat was true for North America, it would not be a reasonable to assume that someone has an old computer they could use, it would be reasonable to support the current model and the previous model.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*





​ Afaik firmware updater and pcls work okay with Win7. Also DEX does. 
Just saying, at the time of writing WinXP was still the 2nd most prominent desktop OS in da world.
And the FW upgrade is optional: if users really want it, sky offers _one _guaranteed way to do it; obligation fulfilled in my books





i heard that sky got inquiry emails by US end consumers who don't have any WinPC at all! they were on Apple OS or on Linux and asked how to upgrade the firmware. and what about firmware upgrade support thru my venerable MSX computer? in all fairness, whose problem is it iyho? :huh:

I am wondering tho why the charger doesn't offer firmware update thru bluetooth. The NC2500 updates the firmware through the bluetooth app!


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



StandardBattery said:


> You have to have that broken down by geographical region to get an accurate picture. Even if the stat was true for North America, it would not be a reasonable to assume that someone has an old computer they could use, it would be reasonable to support the current model and the previous model.


I quoted the stats world wide since everyone on the forum is not living in North America.
I am not arguing SkyRC software shouldn't be updated to run on the latest OS, it definitely should, that's a no brainer!

My argument is that W7 is not an outdated, obsolete OS. Millions of folks use it everyday, me being one of them. It is not only on old computers, it is being sold on brand new computers today. Dell, Hp and Lenovo to name a few are still selling PC's with W7 Pro on them. I personally bought a Lenovo desktop 2 weeks ago as a Xmas present from Tiger Direct with W7. 

Walmart sells this as I type: HP ProBook 455 G3 T1B72UT#ABA 15.6" Laptop, Windows 7 Professional, AMD A8-7410 Quad-Core Processor, 4GB RAM, 500GB Hard Drive and Staples this: Dell Latitude 3570 15.6" Laptop, LCD, Intel Core i36100U DualCore, 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Pro, Black (CM5JN) To name a few.

Bottom line I am just saying the software we are concerned about does not just work on "old" computers that no one has around or uses any more. MS may not like it but W7 is still the king world wide. 99% of the bugs are gone, it runs 99% of the soft ware, people like it, still want it and it works. The same cannot be said for W10.

Again they do need to update/improve the software.


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## OttaMattaPia

jpasint said:


> Opened it up and 3 out of 4 of those black pins that hold the springs are broken. I guess the other 2 of them were ready to break and removing their top support (the PC board) allowed the springs to break them while I was disassembling it.
> 
> The charger must have taken a big hit or something for those to break because the PC board braces the pins so there really shouldn't be much flex in them to cause them to break at the base.
> 
> I'm thinking maybe some JB weld would work?
> The thing is, one of the broken black pins has evaporated into thin air so I'll have to come up with something for that one.
> I think I still have some carbon fiber rod from some old RC control linkage that might fit the bill.
> 
> Anyone else have to deal with this issue or am I the lucky one?



You "could" use JB Weld, but that's not really fixing it.
A permanent fix that would put it back like original would be to use a product called Weld-On. I think Number 4 would work for that plastic.


----------



## OttaMattaPia

Has anyone had to invoke their warranty on an MC3000 after the seller return period?

If so, how'd it go?


----------



## Benediction

It appears, assuming my testing is valid, that there are discrepancies between different brands of charger/testers in measurements of capacity - given identical "programs".


On the MC3000 - I created a program to discharge, at a rate of 0.25A down to a CUT of 0.90v - no other cutoffs (ie capacity, etc.) 
I fully charged a battery in a *BC-700* at 0.50A until it topped off, and then let it trickle charge at 0.023A for 30 minutes, just to be sure it was full. Note: this battery had been recently 'refresh' tested on the BC-700 10 days ago, with a capacity rating of 805 mAh (ala BC @ -0.25/+0.50A rate). 
I placed that battery into the MC30000 and ran that 0.25A discharge program on it. 
It extracted MC3000 = 736 mAh from the battery (an Eneloop AAA). 
I charged the battery up again on the MC3000, and just in case it didn't terminate correctly I also put it into the BC-700 at 0.50A + some trickle. 
I then discharge tested it on the BC again @ -0.25A rate, and it scored BC = 797 mAh. 
So BC=797 and MC3000=736 which is a difference of (depending on who's on top) *-7.7%* or *+8.3%* 

I've put several batteries into each to check voltage displayed (BC either charges or discharges but no passive reading possible), and they are (with 2 digits precision) identical.

Alas I don't have a 3+ digit multi-meter in order to calibrate my MC3000.

Addendum: I know that on a BC-700, in order to get an accurate value for discharge, regardless of whether you happen to be present before it begins charging again, that you must place it in 'refresh' mode even if you only plan to do one cycle.


----------



## kreisl

I don't have BC700, so i cannot comment specifically. Just the following in general: Every user is invited to compare the mAh readings of competitive charger-analyzers. The best references are new, top-conditioned batteries (Eneloop, Panasonic) and possibly a logging multimeter plus an independent stopwatch. Before every discharge test, the batteries should have the identical starting condition. One cannot use charger1 to charge/prepare batteryset1 for a test1, and later use charger2 to charge/prepare batteryset1 for a test2. Lol. You always need to employ charger1 to charge/prepare your batteryset1 before starting a new test in charger1 or charger2. MC3000 has enough options to control the charge/preparation including resting time, trickle charge, beeping, and timed cut-offs, so i'd suggest that charger1 = MC3000 

Secondly, when comparing discharge tests, one needs to make sure that both chargers use the same discharge parameters like CUT VOLT. What's the exact cut-off voltage of BC700?

The third thing to consider is that the timer of MC3000 is accurate and that the MC3000 discharging current is constant, stable and very accurate. This allows you to quick-check the veracity, or let's say the plausibility of its mAh readings. You start a -0.25A discharge test1 at 14:00:00 o'clock (2:00p.m.) and you hear the completion beep at 17:49:53 o'clock, i.e. after *3h49min53s*. Then i can promise you that the LCD will read 957mAh (= (3*60*60+49*60+53)*0.25*1000/3600). While the 957mAh are plausible, this calculation or result is not a proof per se that this amount was actually discharged from the battery, right? ( In theory, any device could simply calculate "runtime × _fixed _rate", without using the _actual_ momentary rate anywhere in the calculation!, for example a silly device could discharge with a highly fluctuating discharge current of 310…420mA but send to the LCD the result of the calculation of "runtime × 500mA"; this would be cheating in the firmware and i know some commercial chargers who do that lol omg. But let's assume that the BC700 does not do such cheating. ) Right. But that's where your DMM comes in handy. Measure the current thru the battery and you'll learn that it is indeed 0.250A, and stable so. It means that 957mAh were actually discharged from the battery! Of course, the MC3000 integrates the current _I(t) _over time _dt_, which is the correct method for capacity calculation.

Let's say that BC700 measures 1057mAh. If the BC700 were discharging with 250mA (steady or average), such a reading could only be plausible, if the test duration was exactly *4h13min40s* (= 60*60*1057/250). However, since we already established that 957mAh is _la veracidad_, there is no way that your BC700 test will take 4h13min40sec to finish *unless *the charger actually discharges with a lower current, namely 226mA (= 957mAh/4h13min40sec). So, please, when you do your next BC700 (or Lii500 or BT-C3100 or or or) test, exactly time the duration of the discharge test! This is the least you could do to quick-check if the mAh reading is plausible. Point is, you wouldn't even need to time your BC700, because the MC3000 result (time, capacity) is already established as exact. Whatever you measure with BC700 (time and or capacity) and it is off from the MC3000 result, it's because the BC700 is off (in its timer and or its discharging current). But time the duration of the BC700 discharge test (e.g. with smartphone app!) anyway to experience on your own the implausibility of your BC700 reading.

Let's say that you did time 4h13min40s for the BC700 discharge test. Then we know that such a time result can only be plausible if the average current was 226mA. Try to measure the current by logging it over several minutes. You should be able to verify that 226mA was indeed the actual average discharging current employed by the BC700. What's next? Next would be: You could enter -0.22A for a next test in MC3000. MC3000 would then take a little longer than 4h13min40s to finish the discharge test. One cannot enter -0.226A, one must enter -0.22A or -0.23A instead. After this test, you would (in theory) get coinciding test _times _but that's worth nothing: As a BC700 user you would still read 1057mAh as test _capacity _on the LCD and that is still completely off! So what was the point?

In summary, or to simplify the tester's life:
1) Assuming identical battery and battery starting condition (e.g. always prepared with charger1) and identical discharge parameters (CUT VOLT), the MC3000 result is always plausible, correct, and accurate. La veracidad, the reference. If you get a different result with your competing charger (time, capacity), that result is wrong, not accurate. It's mussig and pointless then to investigate why the competing charger produces that wrong result. There are many pitfalls which cheap chargers fall into: timer has a linear drift and or discharging current is fluctuating not stable/constant and or discharging current is off (level) and or slots are not consistently calibrated and or capacity calculation is cheating/wrong (firmware). MC3000 has none of these pitfalls. It is the very reason of this charger's birth and existence.
2) Ambitious testers should perform MC3000 user calibration once. The user calibration stays valid for many many months to come, i don't notice any drift (charger is stored in the same room at 17-23°C), which i find amazing.
3) Serious testing and comparison of batteries and chargers requires serious efforts, equipment and knowledge (for example, did you understand everything i posted, calculated, and reasoned in this single post??)


----------



## Benediction

kreisl said:


> What's the exact cut-off voltage of BC700?


 0.90v



> 3) Serious testing and comparison of batteries and chargers requires serious efforts, equipment and knowledge (for example, did you understand everything i posted, calculated, and reasoned in this single post??)


Yes, but again I don't have an accurate enough DMM. And I'm not worried enough to purchase one just to check this experiment


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> to check this experiment


for starters, time the time, and do the plausibility quick-check calculation, as shown 

i already did this entire experiment (= the evaluation of cheap charger-analyzers) many times. pretty much all tested chargers failed, fell into the pitfalls. except for MC3000


----------



## Benediction

kreisl said:


> i already did this entire experiment (= the evaluation of cheap charger-analyzers) many times. pretty much all tested chargers failed, fell into the pitfalls. except for MC3000



Cool  can you post results? Or even observations. eg: "Charger x is wrong, and its results vary for multiple tests on a single battery - beyond expected minor differences between tests"
or "Charger Y's internal clock tested as wrong by xx%, it is too slow" or "the discharge load was wrong by zz "


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> Cool  can you post results? Or even observations. eg: "Charger x is wrong, and its results vary for multiple tests on a single battery - beyond expected minor differences between tests"
> or "Charger Y's internal clock tested as wrong by xx%, it is too slow" or "the discharge load was wrong by zz "


hi, i understand what you mean and i could easily insert some names/models in your template phrases but i refrain from doing that ...
... 1) because it would be more and more *offtopic *discussing other chargers
... 2) because my negative test results were about here popular chargers yet i was testing early production versions and the results are *possibly not valid anymore* because the makers could have upgraded the electronics and firmware in the meantime thus improving the product performance for better test results. It is irrelevant nowadays how poor charger2 with firmware 1.1 (anno 2013) is performing at my home, nobody wants to hear that today; equally i don't want to read a 2017 review of the anno 2015 MC3000 with firmware 1.02 with back then *ucky plastic material quality. 
... 3) "everybody knows me in the scene" and i respect them and their development efforts and don't want to criticize their work in public. my mission is not to prove how poor a competitor's product is, whether in comparison or not. in fact, i don't have a mission. in turn, i also wouldn't expect any of them or their fanboys to badmouth the dreamcharger II (DC2) out of personal reasons - there is imo very little of substance one could say against DC2 unless one is a personal squirrel hater. i leave their work in peace and try hard to keep myself in rein not to incite any conflict or _war of charger fanboys_, so that we all can move forward. i get test samples from relevant makers and i do communicate my test results, findings, and criticism to them but poor chargers, poor products, i'd rather ignore such and also refuse to review them in public. life is too short, i can't spend my leisure on testing let alone reviewing poor products by making a point. as i said, for idiosyncratic reasons i respect the makers and it would be *disrespectful *of me to expose how poor and disappointing so often their products are. honestly I also believe that they are thankful that i did not publish a point-making review but that we agreed to leave things like that, midway. when there is an imo successfully designed/engineered product and there is tons of positive things to say, i'd naturally go ahead and cheer and we can party together (Imalent DT40 remote control edition, Fenis PD32 2016, Olight Smini, Olight H1, MC3000, Maratac AAA PWM) and i wouldn't stop conversing; however when i think that a new product imho *ucks from an engineering perspective, i'd message the maker about it but shut up publicy. in confidential or private conversations i would tell good fliends the truth, my full honest opinion though, when they ask me about a specific product which i had tested thoroughly in private. everyone is entitled to form an opinion but it is a matter of decency and respect to keep the opinion to oneself at certain occasions. 

I'll leave it to others, other testers/reviewers, to find out, expose, publish. It just can't be me. At least i am being open and honest about this tricky topic. Makers in the scene have been nice and forthcoming to me, i am thankful for it and i don't bear any grudges. Being thankful and respectful doesn't make me biased (or does it?) nor partial but it feels natural that i don't *ee in a cup of *ea when i am friendly being given one.

:green: :laughing:


----------



## tatasal

Really?:shakehead


----------



## Benediction

Here is an odd observation (does that make me odd?) 
- In Dex, near the end of a charging operation - in the [digital] tab - only 2 digits of precision were being displayed for the *voltage *value - eg: 1.54
- In Dex, in the "finish" stage, just a few seconds later, in the [digital] tab -there were 3 digits of precision were being displayed for the *voltage *value - eg: 1.531

Is there a reason for this? Does the MC3000 only send 2 digits while charging and 3 afterward (over USB)?


----------



## DT123

I have problems with Break-In. I started several break-ins via the Android App.
I used older Sanyo Twicell 1600 and set capcity to 1600 and end discharge voltage to 0.9

The charger charged for 16 h with 0.1 C, then discharged with 0.32 A and then suddenly changed the discharge current to 0.01 A.
It is continuing to discharge for more than 4 hours with 0.01 A and the voltage does not drop anymore (stays at 0.96 & 0.99 V +/- 0.02 V)
The total discharge time is almost 9 hours now.

What's going on here? Did anyone experienced similar problems?
Unfortunately I did not log it.
This happens with 2 cells. Another 2 will start their discharge in 3 and 8 hours.


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> Is there a reason for this? Does the MC3000 only send 2 digits while charging and 3 afterward (over USB)?


MC3000 sends 3 voltage decimals (and 3 amperage decimals and 1 capacity decimal) all the time. In the [Graphic] tab, go with your mouse to the 'Curve selector' and right-click on Voltage. The context menu pops up. There you can choose 3 decimals for display. The 3 decimals should be available on each tab i guess, [Graphic], 

, etc. You can save your new DEX configuration by 
menu >> Graphic Templates >> Save Default Graphics Template

Am glad that i could help.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> What's going on here? Did anyone experienced similar problems?
> Unfortunately I did not log it.


i can only comment/guess, i have no explanation or confirmation, sorry.




last time i tested Break_in was in FW1.11 via the charger, and everything was in order. So you're saying that both the LCD screen and the phone display "-0.01A"? Are you on FW1.13? My uneducated guess would be that your observation = a bug in the Android app. Since Break_in is a very long operation mode, i'd prefer operating that program from the device. Afaik FW is a more thoroughly tested piece of code than APP. I'd be surprised and thankful about any FW bug report! I'll test your program on my FW1.13 device with my Android.

You cannot log it. One cannot use DEX (or PCLS) at the same time as APP. It is mentioned in the manual 

Also, you really cannot touch any plasticky buttons during operation via APP. It would eventually discard the temporary slot program (which was set by APP) and only lead to §$%&"! 

EDIT: I have created 'Breakin1600' C>D>C program on my Android and started the program from the APP, 4 NiMH batteries in the charger. my phone screen has turned off because of user inactivity, the device blue led is permanently on and it will kill my sleep haha. it's midnight now, discharge routine will start at ~5p.m. tomorrow. am not sure if i can go away with the phone: the charger would continue to operate the program, but my phone screen would not continue updating the data/graph. well, i can live 1 day without my phone. will do a phone screenshot tomorrow evening, np.

EDIT2: after 25min the blue led turned off and my phone screen stopped updating data/graph. i noticed it after 10mins downtime! so i closed the app and restarted it. the phone connected back to the charger, the blue led turned on again, and the phone screen is showing all data, resuming at t=35min, from t=0...35min. the graphs are complete on the phone, and i am impressed hahahh!! it means that i could also turn off the phone completely and walk away with it. and come back anytime with the phone, restart the app, reconnect to the charger, and still get all the data from t=0 on with full uninterrupted graphs. Sweet!


----------



## DT123

The display of the MC3000 and the Android app tells me -0.01 A
The app shows me this: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9dwbvo3k4tjnxv/IMG_1704.png?dl=0

I started break-in with the app (since it is easier to handle). And then i closed app (bluetooth connection was closed on the charger)
Only after the charger didnt want to stop discharging i opened the Bluetooth connection again.

I will see what happens tomorrow morning with the 2 other cells.

Edit: I had to check - I have still firmware v1.12


----------



## Viking

kreisl said:


> Secondly, when comparing discharge tests, one needs to make sure that both chargers use the same discharge parameters like CUT VOLT. What's the exact cut-off voltage of BC700?



0.9 volt, but the two chargers in question don't necessary use the same methods for measuring voltage during discharge as you rightfully point out.
La Crosse chargers utilize a pulsed 500 mA during discharge, and the BC-900 (probably also BC-700) measures the open circuit voltage between pulses.

For comparison Maha C9000 utilize a pulsed 1000 mA during discharge, and measures the voltage under load. Meaning the latter charger will terminate earlier, and thereby also show lower readings than the La Crosse chargers.

Does anybody know how MC3000 measures the voltage during discharge in Nimh mode ? That would be interesting to know.


----------



## DT123

The 3rd cell had the same problem and at the 4th one I could see now live what happens. The current is decreasing slowly from 0.32 A to 0.01 A when the voltage is near 0.90 V
I can see how it goes down 0.16 ..0.15 .. 0.14 .. 0.13 .. 0.12 .. 0.11 while shown voltage is changing between 0.90, 0.91 & 0.92.

I will install newest Firmware and start Break-In afterwards directly from the MC3000.


----------



## DT123

Is it possible to use more than one MC3000 on the same computer and log the data? Or are the MC Monitor Software and DEX supporting only one device?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

I want to do a capacity check on some RCR123 LifePo4 cells, What voltage cut should i use?

Thanks

John.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> The 3rd cell had the same problem and at the 4th one I could see now live what happens. The current is decreasing slowly from 0.32 A to 0.01 A when the voltage is near 0.90 V
> I can see how it goes down 0.16 ..0.15 .. 0.14 .. 0.13 .. 0.12 .. 0.11 while shown voltage is changing between 0.90, 0.91 & 0.92.


I was able to reproduce the mc3k behavior observed by you. Once my cut-off voltage 0.90V was hit, the discharge current was decreasing from "-0.32A" to 0.31, 0.30, 0.29 etc very slowly, as if the D.REDUCE option were active in the Break_in program. I immediately interrupted the program, programmed the Break_in on the device, saved as [01], and now started the program [01] from the device, not from the app. I don't expect to see the behavior again, we'll know by tomorrow for sure. Nice bug finding in the Android app DT123 thanks!!
EDIT: no such behavior with Break_in program [01] started on the device! So it must be a bug in the Android app, thanks!


DT123 said:


> Is it possible to use more than one MC3000 on the same computer and log the data? Or are the MC Monitor Software and DEX supporting only one device?


It is mentioned in the manual, only one device is supported by APP or PCLS. Or DEX for that matter. During the development phase the team couldn't picture that any end consumer would afford more than 1 mc3k unit at projected 80$ retail. And for sure, working with the "1 unit" assumption kept coding things for them clean, tidy, and simple. Less potential for bugs or trouble introduced.


Viking said:


> Does anybody know how MC3000 measures the voltage during discharge in Nimh mode ? That would be interesting to know.


The charger discharges with constant current, no pulsing. From that logic, voltage during discharge in Nimh mode is measured under load.


TinderBox (UK) said:


> I want to do a capacity check on some RCR123 LifePo4 cells, What voltage cut should i use?


We could try to find the pdf datasheet of your battery. A123 SYSTEMS makes high-quality lifepo4 batteries afaik.


----------



## DT123

A 'normal' Break-In which I set via program [01] worked for me (Firmware 1.13). 
So it seems to be really a bug in the Android app.


----------



## Viking

kreisl said:


> The charger discharges with constant current, no pulsing. From that logic, voltage during discharge in Nimh mode is measured under load.


Yes off course, I forgot it was constant current. I should have remembered it, because actually I testet some alkalines a year ago for that very reason.

Thanks


----------



## DT123

I have the question to calibration. The manual says that the MC3000 is delivered with a factory calibration.
If I measure the voltage of one cell in all four slots then I see in the calibration mode differences:
4.110 / 4.108 / 4.107 / 4.116 Volt
Isn't that a sign that the calibration wasn't that great? I assume that depending on the chosen slot I get for the same cell different results (when I try to analyse them)
I don't have expensive equipment - my multimeter has an accuracy of only 0.5% (in this case +/- 0.04 V) 
So I cannot use it for calibration.
But shouldn't it be the aim to get in all slots the same result? 
Should I "calibrate" the MC3000 to get in all slots the same value - for instance 4.110 v?!


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> Isn't that a sign that the calibration wasn't that great?
> (…)
> Should I "calibrate" the MC3000 to get in all slots the same value - for instance 4.110 v?!


Exactly. I find the geman manual clearer regarding this topic, did you read IM1.13 ?

Please check. It should make the situation clearer for you.


----------



## DT123

Unfortunately it didn't make it really clearer. But I guess that even without a quality multimeter (even without a multimeter at all) I should "calibrate" the slots 


> for guaranteed consistency across the 4 slots


But this I should do only for the voltage. Correct?

For calibrating the current I need a multimeter with an accuracy of at least 0.1%, better 0.05%.
For the voltage (4 V) it should have an accuracy of 0.025%, better 0.01%?!

Out of curiousity: How expensive are such multimeter?
If I read the specs correctly then 
a Fluke 87V Industrial multimeter has a
Voltage accuracy ±(0.05% + 1) 
Current accuracy ±(0.2% + 2)
This would be not accurate enough to calibrate the MC3000.

A Fluke 189 has a
Voltage accuracy ±(0.025% + 10) 
Current accuracy ±(0.5% + 10) 
This would be for the recommended 4V/1A an accuracy of 
±.001 V + 10 Digits
±.005 A + 10 Digits
So no need to bother to calibrate with an equipment cheaper than 1000 Dollar?


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> Unfortunately it didn't make it really clearer.


Point was, the geman manual states that user calibration result can be better than factory mass quick calibration.

Can be.

Voltage and current.

Calibration is for making the slots consistent with each other.


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> Voltage and current.


But for current I need a pretty good multimeter?! 
Or do I misunderstand the meaning of accuracy for a multimeter? 
If I have a guaranteed accuracy of +/- 0.5% then the shown result can be +0.4% higher than the accurate value. 
Does the multimeter show the values always +0.4% higher?
I am under the impression that it can always differ +/- 0.5%. 
And then I don't see the point to calibrate the current without having the right multimeter.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> Does the multimeter show the values always +0.4% higher?


Short answer: yes. Long answer: For a given constant current you're measuring, the multimeter will show a constant reading, say 1.004A constant. When you measure the same current 1 month later, the multimeter will show again 1.004A! There is no effing way that your multimeter would show 0.996A for the identical given constant current.

anyway. maybe you're misunderstanding something, i dunno. the point of the calibration is similar to the calibration of a lumens lightbox (light sphere): you equalize the reading of a given physical quantity (lumens, voltage, amperage, etc) at a reference point such that all devices read the same value, no matter if this reference point is 100% accurate in its own absoluteness. for example you may have a jeweler's scale to measure weight with +0.000001g resolution, but if the internals of the scale are off, miscalibrated, then all your measurements will be off with reference to the absolute scale which consists of 7 SI base units and are impossible to reproduce directly by any common scientist or engineer, also because they are impractical to reproduce ("_The duration of 9192631770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium-133 atom._"), which is why we have meters (scales, digital scales, DMM). the mc3k calibration exercise does not care about the accuracy/precision/resolution of your reference meter with respect to absoluteness. you only need to have a DMM which has a higher (or equal) resolution of the mc3k, i.e. your DMM should have 3-4 decimals for 4V and -1A. then the user calibration feature lets you adopt the reference of your DMM = if your DMM shows 1.000A, then mc3k will show 1.000A too. if you DMM is miscalibrated, then mc3k will be equally miscalibrated. The ultimate reference, the absoluteness, is the definition of the SI base unit. The term "accuracy" can and must be defined in reference to this ultimate reference, however in practice this is impossible, so we simply take our own reference, for example a high-resolution DMM, and hope that it literally "approximates" the ultimate reference with high precision.
For current calibration you'll need a DMM which measures 1A with 3 or more decimals (1.000A, 1.0000A, etc). No need to think about accuracy tolerances of your DMM. 

(…)

DataExplorer. Nobody ever claimed that DEX is bug-free concerning mc3k operation/support. DEX is complex, mc3k is complex, and the multitude of supported OS's is complex too. DEX & Win7. A fellow user pointed me at a bug which i was able to reproduce. DEX3.2.8 *x64* "MC3000-Set" config & Win7 SP1 x64. When the 4 slots finish the programs, the right drop-down menu goes wild and counts up ordinals every second (obvious bug!), one would press "Stop gathering" and quit the warning dialog with "OK", when all of a sudden DEX exits (obvious bug, crashes). A DEX user should never see the drop-down menu going wild, it's a DEX bug!, and the user should then press "Stop gathering" and try to exit DEX normally (without crash) and restart the software and check if he can reproduce the bug and eventually report it. Luckily there's an acceptable workaround. I uninstalled DEX, then deleted the remaining folder manually, then downloaded and installed the latest Java Runtime Engine JRE 32-bit, then downloaded and installed DEX3.2.8 *x86*, and the bug seems gone. DEX running smoothly with no unexpected behavior or surprises, on Win7 SP1 x64! We're learning from this:
To Whom It May Concern: Dear DEX user, please do not feel discouraged or disheartened if your very first steps with trying out DEX didn't result in a positive experience from the get-go. You may have run into a bug which the testers weren't aware of. I, for my part, use DEX 32-bit version on WinXP SP3 32-bit and the DEX software runs without hiccup and very stably, professionally so. Whoever runs into unexpected behavior, trouble, please report. DEX itself is being developed on a MacOS computer afaik.


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> Short answer: yes. Long answer: For a given constant current you're measuring, the multimeter will show a constant reading, say 1.004A constant. When you measure the same current 1 month later, the multimeter will show again 1.004A! There is no effing way that your multimeter would show 0.996A for the identical given constant current.


Thanks - this is what I needed to know. I was thinking too much and was misinterpreting accuracy .


----------



## Benediction

Image of the NiMH crystals breaking up on an MC3000 (captured in DEX)


----------



## kreisl

​


----------



## DT123

I was reading the tests of HKJ at http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger SkyRC MC3000 UK.html and started the calibration menu
I am wondering what differences were shown in your devices for a LiIon cell before you calibrated?
My MC3000 showed the highest voltage for slot #4 and the lowest for #2 & #3.
Differences were 0.010 V. 
The value for #1 was #4 minus 0.006V
Assuming there is an inaccuracy of 1 mV I get very similar results (when I look only on the differences). 

I was wondering whether all MC3000 have similar differences or whether this is a pure accident.
My DMM isn't that accurate and I wanted to calibrate slots 2-4 so that they would show the same voltage as slot 1.
But perhaps it would be better to calibrate slots 1-3 since in HKJ's tests slot 4 always showed the correct voltage (uncalibrated).


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> I was wondering whether all MC3000 have similar differences or whether this is a pure accident.


other owners would need to chime in.
i never investigated whether the production units have ex-fac calibration differences similar to HKJ's leeview. 
i always assume that each unit has its own set of differences and that there is leeway between production days and production gals and guys




iirc the desire for calibration through end consumer was expressed in the early thread and i thought it was a good idea to pass it on to maker. i had no idea how they would implement it and was surprised and glad about the simple procedure.

your DMM cannot measure voltage with 3 decimals such as "4.168V"?


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> your DMM cannot measure voltage with 3 decimals such as "4.168V"?


It has only 4000 counts. This was for me till now enough. So I was looking for a cheap work around.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> It has only 2000 Digits.


ahh.. now i am finally getting what DMM makers mean with "2000 Counts", thanks for the epiphany! 
in your case it means that your display can show up to "0.000V…1.999V" and for voltages higher than 2V the next range would be "02.00V…19.99V", then "020.0V…199.9V", then "0200V…1999V". Is that about correct?

Then yes. Not good enough  for mc3k user calibration. Ha.


----------



## DT123

I realised my mistake - and edited it - it has 4000 counts. 2000 would be pretty useless.
But it should have at least 6000 for the MC3000


----------



## kreisl

4000 counts sounds good enough, e.g. a battery with "3.997V" could be used for user calibration.

only 1 such battery needed.


----------



## DT123

Now i know why I wrote Digits:
https://www.conrad.de/de/hand-multi...-cat-iv-600-v-anzeige-counts-6000-120556.html
In the "Ausstattung" they mention Digits too. And I was comparing some DMM lately.


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> 4000 counts sounds good enough, e.g. a battery with "3.997V" could be used for user calibration.
> 
> only 1 such battery needed.


You mean that I should discharge one to 3.99?!

OT: I hate it that my browser is always changing my words and capitalize them.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> You mean that I should discharge one to 3.99?!



Yes sir


----------



## DT123

@Kreisl:
When I use my DMM to measure the voltage then I get a 0.02 V difference (MC3000 says 3.951 V, my DMM 3.971 V). This is a difference of 0.5% which is exactly the accuracy of my DMM.
I am not sure whether I should calibrate the voltage since it is used for Termination.
I assume that 0.02 V (@4V) would become 0.005 V (@1V). So the Termination value will be changed only by 5 mV. Is that correct?
(just to clarify: the voltage values I mentioned some posts before were not measured with a DMM but directly with the MC3000)


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> @Kreisl:
> When I use my DMM to measure the voltage then I get a 0.02 V difference (MC3000 says 3.951 V, my DMM 3.971 V). This is a difference of 0.5% which is exactly the accuracy of my DMM.
> I am not sure whether I should calibrate the voltage since it is used for Termination.


as i said, _you _decide which reference scale should be your absolute reference scale. if your DMM shows 3.971V, and even if 3.971V is off compared to the SI definition of voltage, then my advice is that you calibrate your MC3000 to show 3.971V too. That's the entire purpose of MC3000 calibration! Just do it. Come on.
And yes you should calibrate voltage. Each slot should have the same reading.



> I assume that 0.02 V (@4V) would become 0.005 V (@1V). So the Termination value will be changed only by 5 mV. Is that correct?


No, it is not correct. Just check the 3-decimal mc3k reading of an Eneloop. mc3k won't let you calibrate voltage with an Eneloop iirc but you can make TOV display the 3 decimals.


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> And yes you should calibrate voltage. Each slot should have the same reading.


This was already clear to me. My point was whether I should use the factory calibration and a 4V cell and "calibrate" the 4 slots without a DMM. 
In that case I would trust the factory calibration more than my DMM.
Or whether I should always use a DMM.

The reason why I hesitated was that the voltage for the factory calibration differed only by 10 mV (for the 4 slots). Slot 4 showed the highest values.
And now I measured for slot 4 a value which was another 20 mV higher.
:thinking: I calibrated the current without hesitating by changing values by 2.5% and now I am scared of 0.5% for the voltage???!!!
I will use the DMM.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> In that case I would trust the factory calibration more than my DMM.
> Or whether I should always use a DMM.


I have a sub-100€ DMM, so i always trust my DMM to be my #1 reference.


----------



## Benediction

Note for everyone else (without "2000 or 4000" DMMs).

The calibration process *need not be* a calibration process. You can just use it to find out what the settings are in your MC3000 *without saving or changing anything.*
If you *begin *the calibration process...as described in the PDF MC3000 manual, for a slot, it will show you what *it thinks* is the voltage level for the cell in that slot, to 3 digits beyond the decimal point. 
If you *dont* then proceed and try to change the value, you can just use it for information - don't press the change buttons, and don't press the [comit] button the #.### goes away - or remove the cell from that slot that information will return to idle slot again.

If you put a cell in a slot, and the value for voltage is *constant *for, say, 3 or more minutes...you can compare that value to the results the MC3000 for that same cell in each of the other slots.


----------



## jabz

I just received my MC3000 which I purchased from Gearbest. I got the AU plug version since I am in NZ.
It is on FW 1.10 and HW 1.40+
Is there anything else I can check to ensure its not the previous faulty batches?


----------



## kreisl

label sticker recessed?

Anyway, 1.10 points at June production 😎

Btw fleaks like me open new chargers anyway to check build quality, cleanliness, squirrel logo.


----------



## DT123

Is it possible to measure the impedance of a single cell while other slots are busy?
Pressing the [UP] & [DOWN] keys together will measure impedance for all slots. Is there a key sequence only for slot 1?

Edit:
I tried it now. It will check the impedance only for non busy slots.
I was never sure whether that sequence would stop running processes.


----------



## severum69

Hello

I'am new user of the MC3000 and I have the following problem :

I received my MC3000 at the begin of this week from GB. Until yesterday all is fine.
But today, I have a blank sreen. I can use the MC3000 thru the computer or the smartphone
but nothing on the display. Always blank. No logo when I plug the power.
I tryed different firmware from the method page 138, but blank screen 

May be someone have an idea to solve my problem


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> Edit:
> I tried it now. It will check the impedance only for non busy slots.



my pre age LCD unit so blueish lol:


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Hi.

It would be great if there was a way for the charger to detect the battery capacity and chemistry and automatically start charging at the optimum rate, But how could the charger detect what battery was in it charging slots, Protected battery already have a full circuit board if they could add an nfc chip to it maybe, or the battery could send an unique code to the charger via pulsing the voltage when the battery is first installed.

John.


----------



## kreisl

i enjoy seeing how this _hobby charger era_ product has been inspiring thread visitors to dream even bolder than the DC2 maker realistically ever did.

awesome.

keep'em coming :thumbsup:


----------



## Benediction

When discussing *Lithium*, I can see the following idea would be a bad idea, but this idea is for *NiMH*.
With NiMH or some variant selected (Eneloop, etc)...When setting up a discharge program, moving to the *Cycles *line does not allow editing.
From this posting below by SilverFox, I believe the *cycle *feature should be enabled for *discharge*+*NiMH *programs.
discharge + d.resting=1 hour + discharge x cycles
[h=1]Dendrite/crystal removal​[/h]


SilverFox said:


> ....hook it up to a low wattage lamp. You can watch the lamps output fluctuate as the crystals are broken up. With NiCd cells, you can discharge all the way down.
> 
> When the lamp gets real dim, unhook it and let the cell sit for around an hour. You should find that the voltage will recover some. Now, hook up your lamp again and let it discharge again. It should take less time to discharge this time.
> 
> When you have completed the second discharge, unhook the lamp and once again let the battery sit for an hour or so. Once again hook up your lamp, and this time pay attention to the glow. If it smoothly dims down, you have done well. If it is still fluctuating, you still have a ways to go.
> 
> Now you have performed 3 discharges in a row. It is time to "exercise" the cell and fully charge it. You should charge at 1C. Once again you need to go through the series of discharges paying attention to the fluctuations in the glow on the last discharge. When you get a smooth dimming you can then do a 0.1C charge for 16 hours followed by a 0.2C discharge to see where you are at.
> 
> Have fun.
> 
> Tom


----------



## kreisl

Thanks for the Discharge Cycles idea! My dream is to have a way to program an automatic sequence of programs, e.g. [01][03][02] or [05][05][05][05]. I have no idea though how to even conceptually implement this in the current UI, one would probably need a new view, PSV (Programming Sequence View), for it and things would start to get messy. Good thing is, one could simply do the sequencing manually: automatism is not always the key to life! :huh:

On another note, i've dared to apply the Russian ***ck (found in the dark WWW) on the original 1.13 firmware exe and there is no problem with updating *from FW1.10 straight to FW1.13* either way given that one uses WinXP SP3, hope you like the music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIHIOIF7c-A


----------



## T_zero

hello.

what is the last hardware version of the charger?

for US and EU models.

thanks


----------



## Benediction

kreisl said:


> Thanks for the Discharge Cycles idea! My dream is to have a way to program an automatic sequence of programs, e.g. [01][03][02] or [05][05][05][05]. I have no idea though how to even conceptually implement this in the current UI



As a programmer I see it as fairly straightforward...
- A new line item in the program (perhaps at the end) with some name like "next.prgm" - which can either be OFF or have the number of some other program to begin, once *this* program completes normally.


----------



## kreisl

T_zero said:


> hello.
> 
> what is the last hardware version of the charger?
> 
> for US and EU models.
> 
> thanks



it's 1.5

( LCD will show 1.4+ or ≥1.3, which is both TRUE if you know what the symbol "+" or "≥" means  )


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> - A new line item in the program (perhaps at the end) with some name like "next.prgm" - which can either be OFF or have the number of some other program to begin, once *this* program completes normally.


interesting first idea, thanks! I don't believe that this or a similar idea will be implemented in future but I will give it some thought regarding feasibility and implications anyway and could list it in the list with status UNCONFIRMED: not everything, not every idea which is also theoretically feasible will find its way into the firmware eventually. there are many simple factors if, when, why and why not (KISS) a suggested strong idea would _not _get implemented. just saying, i don't believe that program sequencing will ever be part of mc3k firmware. for various reasons. we can dream. but not hope.


----------



## Benediction

I'm puzzled by the Main-Settings option for "soft charge" - the manual description is not terribly helpful.


> *Soft Charge*
> Lets the user control the voltage threshold of deep-discharged rechargeable Lithium batteries at which
> the charge routine can proceed with the full user-set charging rate.



How to choose soft charge? - With LiIon selected Ive checked the various other line options - no word "soft" shows up.
If not a program selection, how does unit determine which cells should be "soft" charged?


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> How to choose soft charge? - With LiIon selected Ive checked the various other line options - no word "soft" shows up.
> If not a program selection, how does unit determine which cells should be "soft" charged?


That feature was requested on several internet forums and got listed under (k#66). It is a general setting (GSV, SETUP) and affects *all *Lithium battery programs in SPV. No such program option needed in SPV then. Because of KISS the item is featured in GSV, not in SPV. The program determines: IF 1) Is BATT TYPE=Lithium? AND 2) Is online voltage="very low"?, THEN use Soft Charge during the charge routine UNTIL voltage="not very low anymore". The Soft Charge charging rate is 0.15A iirc and is fixed. ( If anyone needs or wants a different Soft Charge charging rate such as 0.10A or 0.37A, then i'd suggest buying a different charger thanks :ironic: )

WWJD is working on an improved FREE :huh: manual version:
*SkyRC MC3000 Manual v1.13 A4 format and searchabe PDF*


----------



## micci_n

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



Torchmee said:


> kreisl.
> As you said the spark is occurring in the switch we just can't see it. I would rather have it there than in the outlet while I'm fumbling trying to get the plug inserted! The actual switch you have was not available so I got this one which has a different design with a smaller red rocker for $1.30 on Aliexpress:



sorry for the stupid question.
I bought a MC3000, but can not find switch like on your picture.
please tell me how to find this switch on Aliexpress.

Big Thanks!
Best regards!


----------



## severum69

severum69 said:


> Hello
> 
> I'am new user of the MC3000 and I have the following problem :
> 
> I received my MC3000 at the begin of this week from GB. Until yesterday all is fine.
> But today, I have a blank sreen. I can use the MC3000 thru the computer or the smartphone
> but nothing on the display. Always blank. No logo when I plug the power.
> I tryed different firmware from the method page 138, but blank screen
> 
> May be someone have an idea to solve my problem



Boot version: 1.4
Firmware : 1.13


----------



## DT123

Benediction said:


> As a programmer I see it as fairly straightforward...
> - A new line item in the program (perhaps at the end) with some name like "next.prgm" - which can either be OFF or have the number of some other program to begin, once *this* program completes normally.



Theoretically there will be a poblem since you can change the programs while it is running. I can start [01] in Slot #1, then I edit [01] for slot #2 and start it, then i continue with slot #3 & #4. All slots are running program [01] but all have different jobs.
If you define the next program number and you let users change programs while they are running them this would be pretty confusing. 
Normal applications on a PC can give you a better overview. So in my opinion this can be done only via external app. You also want to log the results, don't you?
If you start a sequence like [01][03][02] then the charger would show only the results of the last sequence. 

But I also like the idea of a batch. It would be perfect if such a batch would even understand conditions.

Does anyone know whether DEX is getting a termination signal when the job is done? From my observation it seems to be more like a time out. If the API is sending a real termination signal then a program like DEX could theoretically do the sequences.


----------



## StandardBattery

severum69 said:


> Hello
> 
> I'am new user of the MC3000 and I have the following problem :
> 
> I received my MC3000 at the begin of this week from GB. Until yesterday all is fine.
> But today, I have a blank sreen. I can use the MC3000 thru the computer or the smartphone
> but nothing on the display. Always blank. No logo when I plug the power.
> I tryed different firmware from the method page 138, but blank screen
> 
> May be someone have an idea to solve my problem


Hi,
Did you solve your problem yet? 
I presume since you tried updating you also tried regular Factory Reset?
Did you open the unit to see if anything came loose?


----------



## Torchmee

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*



micci_n said:


> sorry for the stupid question.
> I bought a MC3000, but can not find switch like on your picture.
> please tell me how to find this switch on Aliexpress.
> 
> Big Thanks!
> Best regards!


Here are a couple links:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32616981109.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yIU4FJ

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...32700278421.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yIU4FJ


----------



## severum69

StandardBattery said:


> Hi,
> Did you solve your problem yet?
> I presume since you tried updating you also tried regular Factory Reset?
> Did you open the unit to see if anything came loose?



Hello,
My problem is not solved.
I would like tried a regular factory reset but nothing is displayed on the screen.
I have a beginning of keys sequences but I don't know the rest.
Somebody can tell me the different step to do factory reset ?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

I have 2 of the power switches shown above, they are poor quality, 1 of mine stopped working and now i can hear sparks inside when i turn it on.

The switch in the photo below are the best switch to buy i think (need to find a seller), I think kreisl has shown one of the better switches in photo`s he posted.






John.


----------



## Torchmee

The style on top seems to be the new version of the bottom one. It must have replaced it because I can't find anywhere currently selling the old one for a reasonable price (there was one on ebay for $14), they are either sold out or no longer available. Both of my new versions are working fine after a month of use but time will tell, at least they are only $1.30 shipped.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Torchmee said:


> The style on top seems to be the new version of the bottom one. It must have replaced it because I can't find anywhere currently selling the old one for a reasonable price (there was one on ebay for $14), they are either sold out or no longer available. Both of my new versions are working fine after a month of use but time will tell, at least they are only $1.30 shipped.



I have seen them on AliExpress for $4.50 each, But that is still twice the cost of the poor quality version.

John.


----------



## kreisl

the youtube listed DX and BG as source. temporarily sold out there!

Ebay has it expensive: http://www.ebay.com/itm/172345389222

Or you buy cheaper different model: http://www.ebay.com/itm/121712765243


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

kreisl said:


> the youtube listed DX and BG as source. temporarily sold out there!



They are called "PS3 Switch" the one in the link below is $4.08

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pow...lt&btsid=ccd56a3e-2436-4146-bd14-ce007dfd07df

John.


----------



## severum69

StandardBattery said:


> Hi,
> Did you solve your problem yet?
> I presume since you tried updating you also tried regular Factory Reset?
> Did you open the unit to see if anything came loose?



Hello,
I don't try to open the unit because if I can't reset factory, I will try to use the warranty (bought from GB)


----------



## kreisl

severum69 said:


> I can use the MC3000 thru the computer or the smartphone but nothing on the display. Always blank.


You're saying that the charger still works? 

But screen is blank?

OIC

i had the same issue with my Samsung Note3 smartphone after dropping it on its backside from 1 feet onto tiled floor my bad! 

the phone was still operational, i could tell! but the screen remained black!!

A replacement screen was 120€ on ebay, too much i thought, so i just bought a new phone. Xiaomi Chinese smartphone.

Happier than ever!!!


----------



## severum69

kreisl said:


> You're saying that the charger still works?
> 
> But screen is blank?



Yes, the charger works but the MC3000 screen is blank.


----------



## kreisl

severum69 said:


> Yes, the charger works but the MC3000 screen is blank.



that's a first.

if it were my unit, i'd open the charger and swap the LCD. maybe it is just a poor connection or similar. if after swapping the LCD is still blank, then i'd begin to assume that maybe part of the main chip is defective. but i'd also check the PCB for anything conspicuous, maybe dust particles or a hair. i guess you don't have a 2nd unit for the swap?

oh well tant pis :candle:


----------



## severum69

I have one MC3000. Swap the LCD is not possible. Tonight, I will try to open the charger to see if the connectors and cables are OK.
In the event that the screen is out of order, anybody know the screen reference ?


----------



## severum69

Is it possible to have the keys sequences to do a Factory Reset ?


----------



## kreisl

severum69 said:


> Is it possible to have the keys sequences to do a Factory Reset ?


Depends on firmware version. My FW version is FW1.13, so here it goes:

++++++++++++perform a Factory Reset blindly on FW1.13+++++++++++
1) power up device (device goes into TOV, with automatically/temporarily lit LCD, so hurry with the next steps!),
2) depress <STOP> (device goes into GSV, and you'd hear a short beep),
3) click <DOWN> 29 times (you have reached option "Factory Reset"),
4) click <ENTER> 1 time (option "Reset" goes into blinking),
5) depress <ENTER> (factory reset is being processed) and wait,
6) that's it, you're back in TOV.
++++++++++++perform a Factory Reset blindly on FW1.13+++++++++++


++++++++++++perform a LCD Contrast change blindly on FW1.13+++++++++++
1) power up device (device goes into TOV, with automatically/temporarily lit LCD, so hurry with the next steps!),
2) depress <STOP> (device goes into GSV, and you'd hear a short beep),
3) click <DOWN> 24 times (you have reached option "LCD Contrast"),
4) click <ENTER> 1 time (parameter "13" goes into blinking),
5) press <UP> to increase the contrast ("14…30" blinking),
6) depress <ENTER> (which saves the new parameter value, exits GSV, and returns to TOV),
7) that's it, you're back in TOV.
6) that's it, you're back in TOV
++++++++++++perform a LCD Contrast change blindly on FW1.13+++++++++++


----------



## severum69

Thanks !!!!!

I have the same firmware. I will try tonight.


----------



## kreisl

severum69 said:


> Thanks !!!!!


Yes , did it help?? :huh:




> I have the same firmware. I will try tonight.


o. :ironic:


----------



## chsnn

Factory Reset ? FW1.11, FW1.12???


----------



## Torchmee

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I have seen them on AliExpress for $4.50 each, But that is still twice the cost of the poor quality version.
> 
> John.



Good to know. If my 2 versions crap out (I knew to buy more than one), I'll try that one.


----------



## severum69

kreisl said:


> Depends on firmware version. My FW version is FW1.13, so here it goes:
> 
> ++++++++++++perform a Factory Reset blindly on FW1.13+++++++++++
> 1) power up device (device goes into TOV, with automatically/temporarily lit LCD, so hurry with the next steps!),
> 2) depress <STOP> (device goes into GSV, and you'd hear a short beep),
> 3) click <DOWN> 29 times (you have reached option "Factory Reset"),
> 4) click <ENTER> 1 time (option "Reset" goes into blinking),
> 5) depress <ENTER> (factory reset is being processed) and wait,
> 6) that's it, you're back in TOV.
> ++++++++++++perform a Factory Reset blindly on FW1.13+++++++++++
> 
> 
> ++++++++++++perform a LCD Contrast change blindly on FW1.13+++++++++++
> 1) power up device (device goes into TOV, with automatically/temporarily lit LCD, so hurry with the next steps!),
> 2) depress <STOP> (device goes into GSV, and you'd hear a short beep),
> 3) click <DOWN> 24 times (you have reached option "LCD Contrast"),
> 4) click <ENTER> 1 time (parameter "13" goes into blinking),
> 5) press <UP> to increase the contrast ("14…30" blinking),
> 6) depress <ENTER> (which saves the new parameter value, exits GSV, and returns to TOV),
> 7) that's it, you're back in TOV.
> 6) that's it, you're back in TOV
> ++++++++++++perform a LCD Contrast change blindly on FW1.13+++++++++++



Sorry for the stupid question but <STOP> is the <SETUP> key ?


----------



## Torchmee

Kreisl and TinderBox did you notice on your links to the old version that some of the pictures provided in the ad were of the new cheaper one?
Who knows which one you will actually get. Maybe the older model has been discontinued.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Torchmee said:


> Kreisl and TinderBox did you notice on your links to the old version that some of the pictures were of the new cheaper one were mixed in?
> Who knows which one you will actually get. Maybe the older model has been discontinued.



The one with the big switch is the one i am going to order, I have 3 of the one with the small switch and 1 of them is dead, it started sparking, I don't know which one is newest.

John.


----------



## kreisl

severum69 said:


> Sorry for the stupid question but <STOP> is the <SETUP> key ?



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?428121


----------



## severum69

The factory reset and LCD contract blindly are KO. I opened the device, connectors and cables seems to be OK. Screen always blank


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

severum69 said:


> The factory reset and LCD contract blindly are KO. I opened the device, connectors and cables seems to be OK. Screen always blank


 I wonder if it`s just the backlight that has gone, try a low power flashlight on the screen, vary the angle, see if you can see any text. John.


----------



## samgab

It's under warranty isn't it? You shouldn't be trying to fix it, follow up with the warranty process is my advice.


----------



## severum69

Yes, it's under warranty. somebody has an experience with GearBest ?


----------



## micci_n

*Re: V1.13 Firmware and Manual for MC3000 are available now*


Thank's for Your answers!!!
Best regards!!!


----------



## samgab

severum69 said:


> Yes, it's under warranty. somebody has an experience with GearBest ?



No, but the sooner you get onto them the better. Was your item DOA? Or did it develop that issue with the screen?
Anyway, here are all the details you need: http://www.gearbest.com/about/warranty-and-return.html

Edit: Just in case, I wouldn't volunteer to them the info that you've opened the case. Hope you haven't left any evidence of that, stripped/rounded screw heads etc?
_"The customer voids the warranty if they:
- Flash the firmware of a device or root a device
- Open the body in an attempt to fix the device
- Modify, remove, customize, or swap parts of the product
- Use the device in a way that it is not originally intended for
- Continue to use the item once a fault occurs and causes more damage"_​


----------



## severum69

samgab said:


> No, but the sooner you get onto them the better. Was your item DOA? Or did it develop that issue with the screen?
> Anyway, here are all the details you need: http://www.gearbest.com/about/warranty-and-return.html
> 
> Edit: Just in case, I wouldn't volunteer to them the info that you've opened the case. Hope you haven't left any evidence of that, stripped/rounded screw heads etc?_"The customer voids the warranty if they:
> - Flash the firmware of a device or root a device
> - Open the body in an attempt to fix the device
> - Modify, remove, customize, or swap parts of the product
> - Use the device in a way that it is not originally intended for
> - Continue to use the item once a fault occurs and causes more damage"_​



The MC3000 was not dead on arrival. I use it during 2 days without problem.
I took care when openning the device but I don't remember the original version of the firmware (1.11 or 1.12 or 1.13 ?) :shakehead


----------



## samgab

severum69 said:


> The MC3000 was not dead on arrival. I use it during 2 days without problem.
> I took care when openning the device but I don't remember the original version of the firmware (1.11 or 1.12 or 1.13 ?) :shakehead



I'm a little confused, just in relation to the timing of when the issue appeared. Did the fault occur during the process of updating the firmware? If so, then it's definitely not a hardware fault and there was no point opening it up, and it can probably be fixed as demonstrated by other users earlier in this thread who were worried they had bricked it during firmware update but managed to recover it; I don't remember how, but I think it's been reposted above. 
If, on the other hand, you did the firmware update and it worked fine afterwards and the fault happened randomly while you were just using it as normal, then it could be a hardware fault and should be returned under warranty.


----------



## severum69

samgab said:


> I'm a little confused, just in relation to the timing of when the issue appeared. Did the fault occur during the process of updating the firmware? If so, then it's definitely not a hardware fault and there was no point opening it up, and it can probably be fixed as demonstrated by other users earlier in this thread who were worried they had bricked it during firmware update but managed to recover it; I don't remember how, but I think it's been reposted above.
> If, on the other hand, you did the firmware update and it worked fine afterwards and the fault happened randomly while you were just using it as normal, then it could be a hardware fault and should be returned under warranty.



After the firmware update (1.11 -> 1.13 if my remember is good) it worked fine afterwards. The problem happened later. I opened a ticket to GB.


----------



## Benediction

DT123 said:


> Theoretically there will be a poblem since you can change the programs while it is running. I can start [01] in Slot #1, then I edit [01] for slot #2 and start it, then i continue with slot #3 & #4. All slots are running program [01] but all have different jobs..



As I visualize it, slots are slots and programs are programs - unfortunately they *both* have numbers associated with them but lets not mix them up. So to be clear I will **magically** say that programs instead have *letters* Program-A Program-B, etc.

So in my magical world I have Slot #1 with program A running on it. 


It cycles a cell 4 times with specific settings.
The final line of Program-A says "...when complete then proceed to do whatever Program-H says to do" or to be simpler Nxt.Pgm: [H]
Slot #1 then proceeds to do whatever Program-H says
This has no effect on slot #2 or #3, they don't care and are not affected by this string of events.

So yes it is sort of like a batch, however more like a series of GOTO statements.
*
Showing results*: Nope I can't think of a *simple* way to show (on the MC3000 screen) the results of a sequence of programs, - only the currently running program and also whatever is the final program in the string or sequence. Yes the DEX software could have saved data screens for any sequence.


----------



## AA Cycler

Hi,

is it possible to charge a fixed amount of mAh into a cell as part of CYCLE program?

I would like to charge 500 mAh into a cell and immediately discharge it to cut-off. I tried to set up a CYCLE program (CD, N=1), but whether I use the CAPACITY limit or the TIMER limit both terminate the program and the cell is never discharged. The discharge values would be the ones I am interested in...

Is there any way to convince MC3000 to consider these limits "soft" limits instead of safety "hard" limits? Perhaps via PC link with some software?

Thanks,
AA Cycler


----------



## kreisl

AA Cycler said:


> I would like to charge 500 mAh into a cell and immediately discharge it to cut-off. I tried to set up a CYCLE program (CD, N=1), but whether I use the CAPACITY limit or the TIMER limit both terminate the program and the cell is never discharged. The discharge values would be the ones I am interested in...
> 
> Is there any way to convince MC3000 to consider these limits "soft" limits instead of safety "hard" limits? Perhaps via PC link with some software?





kreisl said:


> idea: in SPV, add OnCapacityNext option which does not finish Cycle program at CUT CAPACITY (UNCONFIRMED)


What you're trying to do with the charger -charging a specified mAh amount followed by a regular Discharge- can be most easily, clearly, logically, and independently done manually with 2 separate programs [01][02]. MC3000 gives you proper freedom to compile your own sensible composite scheme, for example a multi-step charging program or the cycling which you are intending. The KISS didn't mean to automatize everything what could possibly be automatized. Your idea has been discussed before but the back then suggested implementation was not likable enough imho. Having a splendid idea alone is imho worth nothing ("_let's make a MC6000 with smaller footprint and 6amps discharge rates and also lower retail price!_"), if it is not accompanied by a clear detailed concrete feasible likable plan to realize the idea ("_erh but how are we gonna do dat exactly?_").

It would be arbitrary to implement just your wanted soft capacity limit for CHARGE.

What about soft capacity limit for DISCHARGE?

What about soft time limit for CHARGE?

What about soft time limit for DISCHARGE?

What about soft temperature limit for CHARGE?

What about soft temperature limit for DISCHARGE?

What about soft etc limit for CHARGE?

What about soft etc limit for DISCHARGE?

Where does it end? Do we need all this? Can't it be done with [01][02] yet? And who is calling the shots which we need yes and which we don't need no? Shall we vote? Maybe there are ways, in theory, to implement all such soft limits, but whatever concrete implementation crossed my nut, i didn't like it. No likability of implementation aka no endorsement of idea.

Sorry  for the above pseudo-discourse, just lemme know if you had preferred a simple "No, sorry, prolly won't happen." post as answer instead :thinking:


----------



## AA Cycler

kreisl said:


> What you're trying to do with the charger can be most easily, clearly, logically, and independently done manually with 2 separate programs [01][02].



Yeah, that's exactly what I did. The problem is I needed 21 measurements for my NiMH Coulombic Efficiency experiment and it took me 3 days to get them. For me it was important to start [2] right after [1] finished otherwise I would get skewed data. And many times I was not able to start [2] because I got distracted, needed to go away, or whatever. In those cases I needed to discharge the cell, scratch the data and re-do the measurement again... happened to me 4-5 times, got a bit frustrated and that's why I asked...


----------



## Ravel

Hello,

To AAcycler : if you click on OnCapacityNext 
in the above post (diligently recorded by kreisel) you will see what my original idea was.
I also wanted to know how much a NiMH battery lifetime would be preserved
by charging it to about 80%, never above (so stopping before dv/dt=0)
compared to a diet of dv=3mV (I stated that in a slightly different manner).
I saw on your site you started to look into this. This is great.

Regards


----------



## AA Cycler

Ravel said:


> if you click on OnCapacityNext in the above post (diligently recorded by kreisel) you will see what my original idea was.



Yes, I saw your post and now it makes two of us who would benefit from that feature. But I must agree with kreisl, it still doesn't justify implementing it in firmware. I think MC3000 already got the perfect balance of features vs complexity, adding anything new would just make it more complex...

But if there was a software that could read data back from MC3000 and send it commands to execute, that would be a different story. One could implement new features in SW instead of messing up with the firmware. One could chain multiple commands creating more complex scenarions, one could implement the "burp" charge algorithm Benediction suggested, one could implement the "inflexion point" charge algorithm, etc... The possibilities are endless. And if the feature turned out to be useful in could be implemented in the firmware. Unfortunately there is no such software...

For now I will do the discharge manually and let "System Beep" notify me when the charge finished. It turned out I was on the buggy 1.11 firmware that disabled "System Beeps" when "Key Beep" was off (k#73). I upgraded to 1.13, I will be more alert now


----------



## Ravel

AA Cycler said:


> But if there was a software that could read data back from MC3000 and send it commands to execute, that would be a different story.



We are not very far.
I use DEX under linux.
Automated backup/export of V, C, t is available via auto-save in DEX (in principle at least).
With some scripts one could choose an action based on data in the csv file indeed !

One could even do timed-loop via bash just to start and kill DEX (simplest implementation).
I say killing, with linux kill command because at this stage
I did not look into how a script can talk to DEX.
(You could ask the author of DEX via https://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=8680
support/New)
Maybe, it is uggly, one could program mouse clicks on top for start/stop for example.
(just for proof of concept, or if ´´simpler´´)


----------



## Ravel

So missing programatic features in DEX would be very few commands via bash:
- stop/start
- force save or export data
- and jumping from one program to another,
in fact just loading a program into any of the 4 slots.

I managed to save all my programms with DEX 3.2.8 (Albeit 4 by 4)
The XML contains the 30 of them.
I do not recall if DEX can write any of them in a slot. I need re-reading the doc and testing.


----------



## Benediction

Ravel said:


> I do not recall if DEX can write any of them in a slot. I need re-reading the doc and testing.



Yes, DEX can "temp overwrite" the settings for any slot - and those temp-settings will remain in effect until a user presses one (perhaps any) of the buttons on the MC3000.

So, you modify some program on the MC3000 using the up/down buttons and enter, etc.
You start DEX
You press Ctl-T or the menu item. (Device Tool Box)
You [read] the settings for that specific slot where you just manual edited (over USB from the MC3000)
You use the DEX [save] button to save all 30 settings to a file on PC.



Later, if you want to use that group of settings (program)
You Press Ctl-T again
You choose the program # for those settings from the drop-down menu (for the slot #)
You press [set] for that slot
You [close] the Ctrl-T window.
You press [start gathering] to begin programs in all idle slots.

If you press that # key on the MC3000 to attempt review of those settings, they are removed - and replaced - with whatever program-# is assigned to that slot.
I have *not* confirmed if you chose to *start* on the MC3000 (long-press of slot # button, or the [enter] key to start all) whether the temp settings are preserved/used.

Alas, so far, DEX does not allow anyone to edit those settings prior to them being temp-written.
You cannot edit the saved all-30-programs file, even with a text editor. (ok, well you *might* edit the file, but DEX would then reject the edited file...same result)


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> DEX does not allow anyone to edit



tru


----------



## Benediction

Ravel said:


> So missing programatic features in DEX would be very few commands via bash:
> - stop/start
> - force save or export data
> - and jumping from one program to another,



Hmm..that *is an idea *:twothumbs

It depends on how willing the DEX developer is to allow some of these changes.
We know DEX can start *all slots* and stop *all slots *through a USB command, but not whether individual slots can be start/stopped.
I suppose I might read through the source code for DEX (I recall it being public domain, avail for review).
It would also require features of DEX to have some scripting available for some of the ideas.



Cut-off idea - (could be construed as the idea OnCapacity-next) only inject xxx mAh (or mWh) into cell then stop. The scripting would have to allow comparison of these values followed by action.
BURP idea - Very tricky, unlikely in scripting - it would have to be a feature enabled in firmware - perhaps only by special commands over USB (thus no interface changes required) 
- Parameters - Interval between burps - depth of burp [absolute -mA value or -percentage of current charge rate] - duration of burp
Inflexion idea - the code for DEX to watch the curve of voltage for a inflexion might be a bit tricky - but *maybe*.
Program-next - (aka Goto) assuming start-stop for single slot is available - *very *doable


----------



## KiwiMark

The other day I received 14 new Li-Ion cells - 2 x 14500 protected, 4 x 18650 protected, 2 x 26650 protected & 6 x 26650 IMR, then yesterday I ordered 6 x 32650 LiFePO4 cells.
It makes me glad I got this SkyRC charger, it is getting a decent amount of use in!
Right now I'm charging up some 18500 IRC cells, unfortunately I have 5 of them, maybe I'll let the iCharger charge one of them while my SkyRC handles the other 4.


----------



## Ravel

Thanks for the summary about DEX, very good and clear.



Benediction said:


> Hmm..that *is an idea *:twothumbs
> 
> It depends on how willing the DEX developer is to allow some of these changes.
> ...
> It would also require features of DEX to have some scripting available for some of the ideas.
> ...
> 
> 
> Inflexion idea - the code for DEX to watch the curve of voltage for a inflexion might be a bit tricky - but *maybe*.
> Program-next - (aka Goto) assuming start-stop for single slot is available - *very *doable



I meant that most things (branching, data slope analysis etc.) should then be done outside DEX with perl, python, bash scripts, whatever.
This minimises the DEX developper work, and we would have some script libraries.
Keeping it ´´one function´´, one tool. Anyway this is one approach.

By the way we could also code in this way a temperature inflexion criterion
(to be combined if needed with other criteria), from the literature and from
the poorish thermocouple contact this is probably not a big plus,
but for some special instances why not (I would use it for termination for poor old
batteries, maybe). I said inflexion, but could be stopping on a max slope criterion, etc.


The DEX code is indeed available, and well commented as I recall looking into
some details one day. The maintener impressed me when I issued some requests on his site.


----------



## doctordun

Considering getting the MC3000.
Will the software work on a Mac running the latest Windows version on Bootcamp?


----------



## Lockman

Hey all.

new user here, thanks for all the info that I have been reading.

im considering buying the mc3000 charger. I have seen some minor technical issues posted here and while it seems they were listed in older posts. I wanted to confirm that these have been rectified.

any other suggestions on a good "all in one charger and analyzer" ??

is the mc3000 free of issues now?

thanks for saving me from reading 7k pages


----------



## kreisl

Lockman said:


> is the mc3000 free of issues now?
> 
> thanks for saving me from reading 7k pages



Excuse me sir, what issues are you talking about?

I am not sure if you know what you are talking about.

Name me the issue which you are talking about and i will tell you if it is an actual issue (or was) and if it has been rectified.

Is this fair enough?

I think so.

yeah even cute little squirrel can get ****** *** after etc


----------



## Lockman

kreisl said:


> Excuse me sir, what issues are you talking about?
> 
> I am not sure if you know what you are talking about.
> 
> Name me the issue which you are talking about and i will tell you if it is an actual issue (or was) and if it has been rectified.
> 
> Is this fair enough?
> 
> I think so.
> 
> yeah even cute little squirrel can get ****** *** after etc





well unless I have been misinformed, there have been discrepancies between the app and the charger, reports of the tabs breaking and DOAs...


----------



## Lockman

This gentleman expressed some concerns also.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks8pmYw2pqU


----------



## Benediction

Hmm,

If I recall the following are the mechanical issues that have been discussed.

The plastic post, internal, to which the spring for the slot clamps is connected breaking.
Fixed post June '16 production units.
The fan blowing air down instead of up into the unit
Fixed, maybe February '16 units and beyond.
Sparks when a user plugs the power cable, with power already flowing, into the MC3000 socket.
A simple powerbar with switch, or an inexpensive switch from EBay, amazon or others resolves this issue.
Some plastic in the case, that when disassembled and then reassembled sometimes would strip or break when the screw was reinserted.
Solution: Don't disassemble - in any case Post June '16 cases are made of sterner stuff.

The software issues:

Most of these issues are matters of degree or preferences by the end users and not absolutely necessary or even sometimes good ideas  but functionally the unit is software complete


----------



## Lockman

Benediction said:


> Hmm,
> 
> If I recall the following are the mechanical issues that have been discussed.
> 
> The plastic post, internal, to which the spring for the slot clamps is connected breaking.
> Fixed post June '16 production units.
> The fan blowing air down instead of up into the unit
> Fixed, maybe February '16 units and beyond.
> Sparks when a user plugs the power cable, with power already flowing, into the MC3000 socket.
> A simple powerbar with switch, or an inexpensive switch from EBay, amazon or others resolves this issue.
> Some plastic in the case, that when disassembled and then reassembled sometimes would strip or break when the screw was reinserted.
> Solution: Don't disassemble - in any case Post June '16 cases are made of sterner stuff.
> 
> The software issues:
> 
> Most of these issues are matters of degree or preferences by the end users and not absolutely necessary or even sometimes good ideas  but functionally the unit is software complete




Sir, 
thank you for the information and your time.

as for your previous message:
no I do not have a great deal of product knowlage with this unit, only the small amount of information I was able to obtain online. However, isn't this the reason for such forums- to ask, to share and assist?
i thank you for a more pleasant reply the second time. 

Using your information, I have decided to purchase the mc3000 vs xtar dragon.

Should you find a need for advise of a professional locksmith with 20+ years of experience, I'll be here to return the favor.

Regards.


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> Sparks when a user plugs the power cable, with power already flowing, into the MC3000 socket.
> A simple powerbar with switch, or an inexpensive switch from EBay, amazon or others resolves this issue.


Btw i've seen such sparks on other products and chargers too, the most recent example i care to remember was and is the xstar VP4 PLUS. i used to own an entire collection of chargers and hobby chargers and most of them exhibited the same 'issue'. It also means that all those makers are aware and didn't change anything about it. If you guys check all of your own chargers and products and what have you, you'll eventually see sparks too but weren't aware of them until now. That's fine. This charger underwent extraordinary scrutiny though maybe because of the high price. Anyway, from my vast experience with china made gadgets and chargers is that such sparks are the most common thing so i was neither concerned nor payed attention. I was actually thinking about shooting a youtube clip demonstrating how common it is with my other chargers .. but wth nm.

i am fine.

moving on.


----------



## tatasal

kreisl said:


> Btw i've seen such sparks on other products and chargers too, the most recent example i care to remember was and is the xstar VP4 PLUS. i used to own an entire collection of chargers and hobby chargers and most of them exhibited the same 'issue'. It also means that all those makers are aware and didn't change anything about it. If you guys check all of your own chargers and products and what have you, you'll eventually see sparks too but weren't aware of them until now. That's fine. This charger underwent extraordinary scrutiny though maybe because of the high price. Anyway, from my vast experience with china made gadgets and chargers is that such sparks are the most common thing so i was neither concerned nor payed attention. I was actually thinking about shooting a youtube clip demonstrating how common it is with my other chargers .. but wth nm.
> 
> i am fine.
> 
> moving on.



I don't expect any improvement in the "flying sparks" situation with this kind of argument and defense, sorry.


----------



## kreisl

tatasal said:


> I don't expect any improvement in the "flying sparks" situation with this kind of argument and defense, sorry.



i agee


----------



## LloydV

tatasal said:


> I don't expect any improvement in the "flying sparks" situation with this kind of argument and defense, sorry.



as an owner of one that shipped with 1.0, this is both good and bad news, at the same time, for me.

i know i want another unit. it was great to see the issues that have been fixed... but it would be quite annoying to get another one, and then for a new h/w revision to come out with a fix for this.

maybe it'll never get fixed and i should buy another.

btw, those having issues upgrading firmware on PCs with windows 7 and 10, (next time) try connecting the charger to USB 2.0 ports rather than USB 3.0. i've done three upgrades, once on win7 and twice on win10 with no issues.


----------



## kreisl

LloydV said:


> to come out with a fix for this.
> 
> maybe it'll never get fixed and


thanks for sharing your concern ive said my piece already

btw if owners follow the instructions of how to properly connect the charger to power RTFM then they *won't* even happen to make any such observation which they do make with their other chargers it is all written down clearly and friendly in the manual (IM1.0, IM1.13, etc)
so all good here me thinks

@LloydV, 10 posts within the past 4.5 years, am feeling honored to see you posting in dis thread, a rare occasion, thanks!! :wave:


----------



## LloydV

kreisl said:


> @LloydV, 10 posts within the past 4.5 years, am feeling honored to see you posting in dis thread, a rare occasion, thanks!! :wave:



as per the sparky "issue", it doesn't really affect me much... the only time i saw it was when i brought it with me somewhere and someone who was keen to try it powered it up that way. the standard here is switched power outlets, so that's normally taken care of... just that itch at the base of my skull, that after waiting for so long, i might get another one that would have another upgrade coming. :sigh: yeah, i work in product development, so i know about the constant, often unannounced hardware revisions throughout a product's lifecycle.

at the moment this is my only li-ion charger, having given away all others... now without a backup, i know i need another... yes, it doesn't have to be the exact same one, but there isn't any other with the same set of features.

hehehe
doesn't mean i haven't been reading... and as far as this product goes, i think this thread is where one should discuss anything about it.

there you go, 2 posts in one day!


----------



## ArmaBene

Hi,

I just found that *average voltage is wrong* (while charging). Upgrading FW from 1.11 to 1.13 didn't help.

I've also an *idea about a missing feature*: what about implementing *separate overcharging and overdischarging cut-off capacity values*?
It could be useful to store some batteries for long time: the user could set a C->D cycle to obtain a full charge followed by a partial/optimal discharge to prolong cell life...
On some kinds of cells (e.g. LiFePo) CUT VOLT doesn't help (for this purpose...).
It could be fine to have overdischarge cut-off capacity value set as overcharge cut-off one as soon as the user sets overcharge cut-off; then editing overdischarge cut-off capacity value should obviously not affect overcharging value.

Thank You!
Armando


----------



## kreisl

ArmaBene said:


> I just found that *average voltage is wrong* (while charging). Upgrading FW from 1.11 to 1.13 didn't help


Lol not true. You mean NiMH charging yes?
We just don't know how the firmware calculates the average voltage during charge of NiMH is all. The concept of average voltage is a purely mathematical construct, be advised.


----------



## ArmaBene

kreisl said:


> Lol not true. You mean NiMH charging yes?
> We just don't know how the firmware calculates the average voltage during charge of NiMH is all. The concept of average voltage is a purely mathematical construct, be advised.


I just gave another look at the manual and, for NiMH/NiCd charging, "TARGET VOLT" refers to off-load voltage; so probably having an average voltage higher than the TARGET VOLT value is not a bug and I should take into account the IR of the cell...


----------



## kreisl

Hello Armando, thanks for your feature idea.
Seems like what you're trying to accomplish with the new feature can already be accomplished with the charger through [01][02] giving u even more freedom and flexibility on the way. Hobby chargers are not Smartchargers, meaning that the former provides a restricted yet powerful set of basic operations and settings and it is the user's task to devise on his own how (exactly, in detail, which steps) to get from battery conditionA to the target battery conditionC. FYI at the mc3k design stage there were several audacious ideas of how to automatize more for example the Storage operation mode and KISS won the discussion. Separate capacity-cut values for charge and discharge routines were also discussed back then and KISS won yet another time. 

That book is closed sorry.







ArmaBene said:


> I've also an *idea about a missing feature*: what about implementing *separate overcharging and overdischarging cut-off capacity values*?
> It could be useful to store some batteries for long time: the user could set a C->D cycle to obtain a full charge followed by a partial/optimal discharge to prolong cell life...
> On some kinds of cells (e.g. LiFePo) CUT VOLT doesn't help (for this purpose...).
> It could be fine to have overdischarge cut-off capacity value set as overcharge cut-off one as soon as the user sets overcharge cut-off; then editing overdischarge cut-off capacity value should obviously not affect overcharging value.


----------



## serg28

Hello! I got the MC3000. It worked fine with version 1.10. I have updated the firmware to v.1,13. And now my charger only works when the cable is connected to the PC (PC-Link). If you disable microUSB cable, the charger turns off completely. The power supply is working. I checked into another load current of 2A. Thank you


----------



## ArmaBene

Hi kreisl,

if I had fully read the thread I would have not suggested my idea. I'm used to search before posting but this thread is too long.. I'm sorry.


----------



## kreisl

no worries afaik your idea has not been fully discussed here in the thread before but it was treated already years ago internally when the maker laid out the framework of the firmware

back then the idea was off the table in no minute


----------



## Benediction

Lockman said:


> Sir,
> thank you for the information and your time.
> i thank you for a more pleasant reply the second time.



You are most welcome.

Whereas members of the forum itself have replied to your original question, as far as myself (Benediction), I have only replied to you that one time as far as I can tell.


----------



## Benediction

ArmaBene said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just found that *average voltage is wrong* (while charging). Upgrading FW from 1.11 to 1.13 didn't help.
> 
> I've also an *idea about a missing feature*: what about implementing *separate overcharging and overdischarging cut-off capacity values*?
> It could be useful to store some batteries for long time: the user could set a C->D cycle to obtain a full charge followed by a partial/optimal discharge to prolong cell life...
> ......
> Thank You!
> Armando



Actually for Lithium cells, the charger *does *have this feature. It is named *Storage*. It just is not implemented for NiMH. Probably because there is no industry recognized appropriate "storage" level for NiMH cells. 

There is probably history as to *why* no certification body figured one of these out. Until 2005 and Eneloop there was no Low Self Discharge NiMH and earlier cells all self-drained at a fantastic rate. As such there was no need to pre-drain them to a "storage" level. And for post LSD era cells they get hundreds of charges whether you fully charge them or don't. For NiMH Car batteries (note batteries not cells - Cells+Cells=Battery) - they attempt to keep their cells charged from 15 or 20 to 80 or 85% for maximum life, according to testing they have done.


----------



## ArmaBene

Benediction said:


> Actually for Lithium cells, the charger *does *have this feature. It is named *Storage*. It just is not implemented for NiMH. Probably because there is no industry recognized appropriate "storage" level for NiMH cells.


MC3000 Storage relies on voltage threshold. I was referring to charge (mAh) threshold. Because of pretty stable LiFePO cells voltage (except at extreme - high or low - SOC) storage, as implemented in MC3000, is useless for LiFePO...


----------



## kreisl

ArmaBene said:


> Because of pretty stable LiFePO cells voltage (except at extreme - high or low - SOC) storage, as implemented in MC3000, is useless for LiFePO...


i won't argue your point, i am no battery expert. yes some mc3k operation mode seems unreasonable for example RAM Cycle (_a RAM battery has 25 cycles to EOL so why would i want to cycle it?_) or LiIo4.35 Refresh (_Refresh is borrowed from NiCd isn't it_) and maybe also LiFe Storage. i need to find out how many LiFe Storage tests sky had performed. we could also check what BU says on this topic.
i never tested LiFe Storage myself because i don't have any LiFePO batteries.

BU = BatteryUniversity.com


----------



## ArmaBene

Even if I never used MC3k Storage on LiFePO, I see that default Storage on LiFePO makes use of Termination +Zero and -Zero and 3.30V as voltage... 
So I assume end of discharge is still voltage based and I won't use it. 
Anyway I'm convinced a dedicate discharge capacity cut value would be a nice feature: I would use it in D->C cycle mode (with small discharge capacity cut) on cells at unknown SOC in place of simple charge mode to exclude overcharge; I would use it in C->D cycle mode (with moderate discharge capacity cut) for storage purposes...


----------



## hahoo

wow ,145 pages, not posts , about a charger.:huh:
and it still seems to be buggy ?
looks nice and all, but think ill stick to my old school stuff.
i got tired of reading, did they finally get it right ?


----------



## tjh

hahoo said:


> wow ,145 pages, not posts , about a charger.:huh:
> and it still seems to be buggy ?
> looks nice and all, but think ill stick to my old school stuff.
> i got tired of reading, did they finally get it right ?


You've basically just said "I'm too lazy to read, so I'll just weigh in with my inaccurate, uneducated opinion and an irrelevant fact."

Bravo! You're hoping for a medal? To wind us up? Or something else?


----------



## kreisl

hahoo said:


> and it still seems to be buggy ?
> looks nice and all, but think ill stick to my old school stuff.
> i got tired of reading, did they finally get it right ?



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=5035648&viewfull=1#post5035648


----------



## tatasal

RT....


----------



## ArmaBene

hahoo said:


> wow ,145 pages, not posts , about a charger.:huh:
> and it still seems to be buggy ?
> looks nice and all, but think ill stick to my old school stuff.
> i got tired of reading, did they finally get it right ?



It is not buggy.
If you're referring to my last "bug" report, I mean to point out, as already stated, that it's not a bug (as promptly confirmed also by email by SkyRC support).
As for the 145 pages of posts... It's simply because the charger is extremely interesting. It's oriented to educated users who like a charger able to charge the cells as expected.
I can't think about a better charger, except for an open source project supported/developed by active community. But this is a commercial charger and I see the development of the firmware is still active and it often takes into account users suggestions...


----------



## KiwiMark

How is it buggy?
I put batteries in and charge them following a program. If something happens I don't like then I change a parameter of that program and then it behaves exactly how I want.
I had a battery time out, I changed the time out value from 180 minutes to 240 minutes and viola - no more time outs before the battery finishes.

I have an Xtar VC4, but it doesn't charge at up to 3A per channel, in fact it struggles to make 1A x 2 channels or 0.5A x 4 channels. If I want to charge my 32650 cells or my 5,200mAh 26650 cells then this SkyRC charger is the way to go.
I have two iCharger hobby chargers, but they each have 1 channel and that means charging a bunch of cells takes a long time unless I set up parallel or serial charging which would mean I don't get to see what each individual cell is up to. I have a light that runs from 8 x 18650 IMR cells and I've just bought 6 x 32650 LiFePO4 cells for another light, it isn't unusual for me to have a few cells that I want to charge at once.

The SkyRC charger takes a little to learn due to the amount of control it offers, but it seems to be the most capable charger for getting the job done.
I like mine and it has so far worked flawlessly.


----------



## Benediction

Add to my list of suggestions for 1.14 firmware - For Lithium the program allows Termination voltage and D.Reduce voltage both - for NiMH the charger only allows D.Reduce - I propose also allow Termination.V for NiMH advanced programs. 
For programming standpoint, this would seem to only require changing *one *flag in a data structure or *one *if/then statement.


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> For Lithium the program allows Termination voltage and D.Reduce voltage both - for NiMH the charger only allows D.Reduce - I propose also allow Termination.V for NiMH advanced programs.



i doht understand you


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Just found my MC3000 has been on for a day and a half when it should have been off, The power was getting to the charger, I could see the display, Even though the switch is in the off position, I flipped the switch anyway back and forth and it would not switch off.

I have 3 of these switches and 2 have broken already, I would advise you to buy the other version.






John.


----------



## Benediction

kreisl said:


> i doht understand you




Ok...

Choose a program - make the Type be LiIon
Now scroll down down a few parameters
There is a parameter named "TERMINATION" - which is - the final charging voltage to reach - while keeping the output voltage from the cell at a constant "TARGET VOLT"
Next use up arrow again to change the Type to be NiMH
Scroll down again a few parameters and there is no "TERMINATION"

Is termination absolutely necessary for NiMH? Maybe not.
Is there any electrical or programming reason*not* to just turn it on? I don't think so.


----------



## kreisl

Benediction said:


> Ok...
> 
> Choose a program - make the Type be LiIon
> Now scroll down down a few parameters
> There is a parameter named "TERMINATION" - which is - the final charging voltage to reach - while keeping the output voltage from the cell at a constant "TARGET VOLT"
> Next use up arrow again to change the Type to be NiMH
> Scroll down again a few parameters and there is no "TERMINATION"
> 
> Is termination absolutely necessary for NiMH? Maybe not.
> Is there any electrical or programming reason*not* to just turn it on? I don't think so.


you presented some alternative facts. i like that. it expands the perception of what could be. :huh: 
but it is also the reason why i didn't understand you the first time oo:

truth to be told the option is about the amperage at the final minutes of LiIon charging, the CV-phase.

NiMH charging has a CC-phase only, so the amperage is constant.

erh how much of the manual did you read btw? please could you check again the explanations about TARGET VOLT and TERMINATION? otherwise we're at an impasse here 

If you want NiMH charging to TERMINATE at 1.47V, then set TARGET VOLT:1.47V . Done.


----------



## Torchmee

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Just found my MC3000 has been on for a day and a half when it should have been off, The power was getting to the charger, I could see the display, Even though the switch is in the off position, I flipped the switch anyway back and forth and it would not switch off.
> 
> I have 3 of these switches and 2 have broken already, I would advise you to buy the other version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John.


Sorry but it doesn't look like anyone is going to be buying the other (older) version any more. I tried to order it from 2 other Chinese sellers (who even had a pic of the other version in their add) in the last couple weeks and stated in the order comments that I only wanted the other version and even included a picture off it so I would be sure to get the right one. I said don't send it if it's not the one I want. They processed and shipped the order. 

Now I get a message from both of them saying the one I want and included a pic of is no longer available but don't worry they shipped the new latest version ( the one you say is defective and have a pic of in your post) and if there is a problem follow their warranty process.

I would say the older/other and supposedly better version is not made any more and we are SOL. Now I have 2 more of the poor one on the way to go with the two I already have. To ad insult to injury the 2 on the way cost over $4 each when I only paid $1.30 each for the first two. At this point if you really want a switch on the MC3000 power supply use a power strip which everyone probably already has several of. Live and learn!


----------



## OttaMattaPia

Torchmee said:


> Now I get a message from both of them saying the one I want and included a pic of is no longer available but don't worry they shipped the new latest version ( the one you say is defective and have a pic of in your post) _*and if there is a problem follow their warranty process*_.



AFAIK, there is no "warranty Process" At least not in the USA.

That said,there are "some" sellers who do take that role upon themselves it seems.

Has ANYONE in the USA sent their MC3000 back for warranty service?
If so, please say how.

Why doesn't SkyRC have a US based office for handling warranties?

I want to buy one but have had too much defective product from SkyRC with no solid warranty availability (in the USA)

My apologies in advance if I'm simply uninformed and there is an easy way to get warranty service.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just leave my mc3000 plugged in. That's why I put in the screensaver feature request.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Torchmee said:


> Sorry but it doesn't look like anyone is going to be buying the other (older) version any more. I tried to order it from 2 other Chinese sellers (who even had a pic of the other version in their add) in the last couple weeks and stated in the order comments that I only wanted the other version and even included a picture off it so I would be sure to get the right one. I said don't send it if it's not the one I want. They processed and shipped the order.
> 
> Now I get a message from both of them saying the one I want and included a pic of is no longer available but don't worry they shipped the new latest version ( the one you say is defective and have a pic of in your post) and if there is a problem follow their warranty process.
> 
> I would say the older/other and supposedly better version is not made any more and we are SOL. Now I have 2 more of the poor one on the way to go with the two I already have. To ad insult to injury the 2 on the way cost over $4 each when I only paid $1.30 each for the first two. At this point if you really want a switch on the MC3000 power supply use a power strip which everyone probably already has several of. Live and learn!



Hopefully it was a bad batch and you will not be affected.

John


----------



## samgab

OttaMattaPia said:


> AFAIK, there is no "warranty Process" At least not in the USA.
> 
> That said,there are "some" sellers who do take that role upon themselves it seems.
> 
> Has ANYONE in the USA sent their MC3000 back for warranty service?
> If so, please say how.
> 
> Why doesn't SkyRC have a US based office for handling warranties?
> 
> I want to buy one but have had too much defective product from SkyRC with no solid warranty availability (in the USA)
> 
> My apologies in advance if I'm simply uninformed and there is an easy way to get warranty service.



He was talking about the little switch addon, not the unit itself, in the post you quoted.


----------



## Torchmee

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Hopefully it was a bad batch and you will not be affected.
> 
> John



Well at least now I'll have 3 backups!

OttaMattapia. I think you might have thought I was talking about the MC3000 it's self. We were discussing a PS3 switch that is placed on the power supply to be able to turn it on and off without plugging and unplugging the cord. I've sent you a personal message, check your inbox.


----------



## Benediction

This has been mentioned on another post, but I can't find a good way to search for the wording in that post, and only to include this thread in the search...

The MC3000 has performed a series of programs and has completed.
There were multiple cycles in the programs.
If you press the [#] button you can see the discharge values for each cycle + the final charge value.
Either with *PCLS *or with *DEX*, connect a USB cable to the unit and gather the numerical results of all of those cycles from all 4 slots.
Offer to show them in columns ala DEX 

tab or just as a set of 4 columns of numbers. - Perhaps also gather the IR value. 
[Question is that IR value calculated only before the very first cycle, once?]


----------



## Ravel

Benediction said:


> Offer to show them in columns ala DEX
> 
> tab or just as a set of 4 columns of numbers. - Perhaps also gather the IR value.
> [Question is that IR value calculated only before the very first cycle, once?]






Yes DEX latest version gathers IR.
AFAIK the IR is measured only once when start button is pressed either on the MC3000 or from DEX


----------



## DT123

I am confused with some data which the display is showing
I discharged a battery with 50 mA.
It is shown 
time: 4:58:58
Total: 1:17:23:30
I thought till now that time is showing the time of the last cycle and total the sume of all cycles. But this was a pure discharge.
The shown capacity is 2069 mAh - which means that with a 50 mA discharge the total time should be correct. 
Any ideas?

I know that we talked here already shortly about the topic average voltage. We know that we can forget the results when charging is involved.
But for discharging NiMH cells (down to 1.0V) the results seemed to be always pretty correct (0.003 V differences to my calculated values).
But this time (I discharged alkaline to 0.7V) the shown average value is again pretty weird: 2069 mAh, 2546 mWh and an average voltage of 1.303 V?!
It should be something around 1.23

Edit:
I did some more calculations. For the memory of the time a 16 Bit value seems to be used and so it is limited to 2^16 = 65536 seconds (which is more than 18 hours)
Thats fine and explains the results.


----------



## kreisl

> Total: 1:17:23:30


mc3k timer = 1:17:23:30
*nist time* = 1:17:23:30
dev time(_after 1.2 days_) = mc3k time - nist time = ~0s
mc3k user-set current = 0.05A
mc3k *actual current*(_time_) = ~50mA, i.e. accurate wrt dmm = 99.9% constant = NOT func(_time_)
1:17:23:30 = 1d 17h 23min 30s = 1*24*3600+17*3600+23*60+30 = 149010 = 41.3916666h
plausibility quick check calculation: 41.3916666h*50mA = *2069.58333333mAh*
mc3k displayed capacity = 2069mAh (no decimal shown due to limitation of LCD space)
mc3k internal capacity calculation = *2069.x mAh* (*see decimal in pcls or dex*), calculation done through real-time mathematical integral (integration) of the actual current

. beauty . full . :kiss: ​ 

thanks for the ambitious data DT123 scnr

To whom thinks that all this is selbstverstandlichkeit it is NOT! I've checked other chargers and charger-analyzers and their timers are a couple of seconds off after 1 hour already compared to nist time, which amounts to a couple of minutes off after 1 day, and neither is their discharge current accurate nor constant yet their firmware prolly  does the calculation with the user-set current and hence assumes that the current be constant, basically doing the plausibility quick check calculation instead of solving the mathematical integral. That's fine wiv me, i have no plans to bad mouth inferior products and also proving my points. Most users don't know such technical details, ignorance is bliss, and they also don't care seems like and they simply move on. Heck they may not even understand what i've written in this very post. And heck again, i don't even understand most of what is posted in HKJ reviews lmao!

The 16-bit limitation of TIME, i was not aware of it, i guess i never tested a 18hr long discharge routine? I can't remember. Or maybe i did, but then could have overlooked the TIME? At least TOTAL looks good. In SPV the CUT TIME is limited to 1440min iirc, that's like 24h afaik but it doesn't consume the full 16-bit because it increments in +1min, not +1s. I would need to investigate, test by myself, and then etc. I wouldn't mind reducing the CUT TIME to 18.0hrs lol. 6hrs of the 24h-testing day missing. Every man needs to get 6h sleep everyday, so that parameter range makes even sense biologically and anthropologically!! 

:twothumbs

If Average Voltage calculation messes up in routines of 18hr+ duration, then i should list in de list. Even though it could be possible to expand the interface protocol to get past the 18hr limit (UNCONFIRMED), i wouldn't make the maker make it. It is up to them. Btw the Average Voltage was not my suggestion/implementation/idea anyway, i was surprised so see it in one of the FW updates between 1.03 and 1.10. Every China is now on CNY vacation 2-3 weeks anyway, so let's move on in the meantime.

When i find more time, i will try to confirm the 18hr TIME and check how if affects Average Voltage. No problem. Thanks for the observation report, appreciated!!


----------



## bella-headlight

Without trawling through the many pages of this thread can I ask a few questions regarding this charger
1. with 4 cells inserted what is the max charge current per cell
2. with 4 cells inserted what is the max discharge current per cell
3. can the charger fit 4 x 26650"s at the same time
4. what is the max cell length the charger will fit
Thanks in advance.


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> mc3k internal capacity calculation = *2069.x mAh* (*see decimal in pcls or dex*), calculation done through real-time mathematical integral (integration)​



​I don't get it why for the calculation of the capacity any integral should be used. 
For calculating the energy - yes, certainly. But capacity?!
The current is fix. Isn't it?


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> I don't get it why for the calculation of the capacity any integral should be used.
> For calculating the energy - yes, certainly. But capacity?!
> The current is fix. Isn't it?


The charger goes easy on battery by ramping up the current from 0. During that phase the current is not fix. Due to that ramping the betrag of the quick-check calculated value should be minimally higher than the betrag of the value reported by dex. I have that theory. :naughty:

Also during LiIon Charge CV-phase the current decreases. Of course, in digital coding the integration is done "digital" too, meaning it is numerical mathematical integration and there is no analytical or symbolical integration performed. I forgot how fast clock speed which Hz frequency the numerical integrator uses per second in the calculation code, it is a firmware version thingy.

Feel free to share your xlsx file where you logged or calculated or 1.303V or 1.23V or thanks


----------



## kreisl

bella-headlight said:


> Without trawling through the many pages of this thread can I ask a few questions regarding this charger
> 1. with 4 cells inserted what is the max charge current per cell
> 2. with 4 cells inserted what is the max discharge current per cell
> 3. can the charger fit 4 x 26650"s at the same time
> 4. what is the max cell length the charger will fit
> Thanks in advance.



all answered in the op afaik

nm. 

here it goes:
1. with 4 cells inserted the max charge current is 3.0A per cell, for a total of 12.0A so to speak. this is a clear answer. 
2. with 4 cells inserted the max discharge current per cell is 2.0A, if all 4 cells are NiMH or similar Ni-based BATT TYPE. 
with 4 cells inserted the max discharge current per cell is 1.0A, if all 4 cells are LiIon or similar Li-based BATT TYPE; the charger can discharge LiIon at 2.0A too, but this was not your question.
3. yes, the charger can fit 4 x 26650's at the same time. It can even fit 2x26700+3x32700 at the same time. this is also a clear answer.
4. the max cell length is about 73mm.

You can check the op, the info is all there iirc. You can even click on the picture there


----------



## bella-headlight

Thanks very much for the reply kreisl.


----------



## DT123

I didn't check what DEX said about the average voltage.
But when I assume that current is constant and the energy calculation is correct then the average voltage should be Energy divided by Capacity
In my case: Calculated avg. voltage = 2546 mWh / 2069 mAh = 1.23 V
These are the data showing on the display (of the MC3000) - except the avg. Voltage which says 1.303 V

I checked now Dex. It does not show any average voltage.

Here you can see the voltage in DEX
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yaslmyoixj65aqo/DEX - Alkaline.png?dl=0
and you can see clearly that the average voltage can never be 1.30 V

Except - and here I bring the word data for the time in play - the average is counted for the first 2^16 seconds only. 
This would be clearly a bug.

And here the DEX data: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pe7wr4m0onv9dtz/AA - Alkaline - 001 - 2017-01-27.osd?dl=0

@Kreisl: 
Could you calculate the average voltage for the first 65536 seconds? And report it as bug if you get 1.30 V?

By the way: the Alkaline was an old 'new' cell (Duracell Plus 'Best before: March 2014'). I was very curious how much I could still drain from the cell.
At the same time I also drained two Varta Energy (12-2021) to compare data. These delivered 2850 & 2950 mAh.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> I didn't check what DEX said about the average voltage.
> But when I assume that current is constant and the energy calculation is correct then the average voltage should be Energy divided by Capacity
> In my case: Calculated avg. voltage = 2546 mWh / 2069 mAh = 1.23 V
> These are the data showing on the display (of the MC3000) - except the avg. Voltage which says 1.303 V


we will talk about the calculation of Average Voltage in another post.

in this post, i wanna talk about your shared osd file. It is a wild osd file containing several/different LiIon test runs?
When i opened it, i am getting this view for example for the very last entry "Sony Clié":
DEX screenshot

Do you recognize the file? In any case, i am not able to reproduce your shared pic of the Alkaline. I don't see any Alkaline test run in your shared osd. Please could you check again the files on your HDD? Maybe you have overwritten the wrong file/file name or shared the wrong upload link or something?

Yes if i can confirm that there is something imo wrong with the calculation, i will of course have it fixed.

Please try again: Share the test run data of your Alkaline battery either in osd or csv or xlsx format TIA.
EDIT: got it. my bad. i have downloaded the correct file now, thanks. now checking it............


----------



## DT123

I don't have any Sony. These data are not from me.
The file you download from dropbox has the name: AA - Alkaline - 001 - 2017-01-27.osd
Your screenshot shows "del.osd"
Please try to download again!


----------



## Benediction

*Tiny side note: *
*NiMH *charging - the average voltage is also not the programmed one, but slightly less, because the MC3000 stops charging, every 20 seconds or so for a period of 1.5 to 2 seconds to check the cell voltage while not under charge. Dex will report this in "average current" at approximately 95% of programmed current.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> I don't have any Sony. These data are not from me.
> The file you download from dropbox has the name: AA - Alkaline - 001 - 2017-01-27.osd
> Your screenshot shows "del.osd"
> Please try to download again!



Okay got it. I have your file correct.

But before you/we continue, i need to tell you that your DEX has the 'wrong' configuration for exporting data - as it seems.

This is your dex config afaik before exporting to excel:
https://abload.de/img/del1ujsg8.png

This is the only correct dex config before exporting to excel:
https://abload.de/img/del2q9svo.png

Do you see the differences? Or maybe i am wrong and it is only on my local dex config hh.
Anyway, the point is that your dex must be configured in such a way that all columns in the table have highest resolution, meaning voltage, current should be displayed with 3 decimals. power and energy with 3 decimals. capacity with 1 decimal. Etc. *Only then* should the data be exported to csv.

So. I am NOT sure if _you_ have used dee correct csv data set to start your calculations. Clearly, the csv file is very different if you have different decimal settings in the dex table!!

Sorry for questioning your csv file but my concerns are warranted and valid.


----------



## DT123

I never exported to Excel. I sent the raw data (osd)

Edit:
But I think I get what you meant. Voltage has only 2 digits and the Energy seems to be mWh in my chart

I think that these were the standard settings :-( 
And whether or not - where do I change it?

Edit 2:
In the table on my computers the temperatures are shown with factor 10 (217°C, 220.0°C)
Very, very strange.

Edit 3:
I changed language en -> de and then back to english. Now at least the shown temperature is correct.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> I never exported to Excel. I sent the raw data (osd)
> 
> Edit:
> But I think I get what you meant. Voltage has only 2 digits and the Energy seems to be mWh in my chart
> 
> I think that these were the standard settings :-(
> And whether or not - where do I change it?


Yeah you sent me osd. But how did you do your calculations then? You can only check the validity of mc3k-produced mAh, Wh, and Average Voltage values, *if *you export the data (correctly, of course) to excel, *and then *do the excel column operations in excel.

Yeah one should change the standard settings before doing any check-calculations ;=)

How to change: Switch your tab to the Graphic tab. Then find your physical quantity on the left-hand. Right-click on it. Then in the context menu you can set the decimals.


----------



## Benediction

DT123 said:


> I think that these were the standard settings :-(
> And whether or not - where do I change it?



The fastest way I found to change the default reporting for *precision and # of digits*.
* Run Dex - fresh/new (close then open program)
* Begin a discharge or charge program on all four slots
* You don't need to run the program very long, just a minute or so - until Dex has received numerical values from MC3000 for each parameter (Voltage, mAh, Energy, etc.)
* Stop the gathering - (and thus stop all 4 programs)
* Underneath the words (on the left column) Curve selector...
* Right click on each of the colored values "Voltage", "Current" etc.
* In the menu that shows up - go to the "Axis number format" entry - a menu pops up to the right.
* Choose the correct format for that value - example Voltage will *never *be a two digit number to the left of the decimal point - so choose format 0.000 for voltage. Capacity will easily have 3 numbers to the left of decimal so choose 000.0.
* Choose menu "Graphic Templates" - then choose "Save default graphics template"
* this saves 1 file into the MC3000 program directory, which includes settings for *this* slot # 
* chose one of the other 3 slots in slot dropdown menu.
* choose "Graphic Templates" - then choose "Load graphics template" - choose the .XML file you saved, with settings, for the first defaults you saved.
* this loads the defaults you edited for this new slot.
* Choose menu "Graphic Templates" - then choose "Save default graphics template" - which saves a file (copy of settings) for this slot # also
* Once all 4 slots have the correct number formats for all values...

- these 4 slot settings files are loaded each time you start DEX and each time a new group of results is generated for each slot (eg: charging, resting, discharging) - so the format is used for all new runs of DEX* Now choose another of the 4 slots - repeat this procedure for each of the 4 slots (there is a shorter way but complex to describe)


----------



## DT123

Thanks - at least the data was saved with max digits. 
I was already afraid that I can forget all data I collected till now.

Voltage settings are fine now - but how do I persuade DEX to calculate/show the correct energy. Instead of 0.320 Wh it shows still 320.000 Wh





kreisl said:


> But how did you do your calculations then? You can only check the validity of mc3k-produced mAh, Wh, and Average Voltage values,





kreisl said:


> *if *you export the data (correctly, of course) to excel, *and then *do the excel column operations in excel.




Under the assumption that MC3000 is calculating the energy correct I know that the average voltage which MC3000 is showing is wrong.
Average Voltage (for fix current) has to be Energy / Capacity.


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> Under the assumption that MC3000 is calculating the energy correct I know that the average voltage which MC3000 is showing is wrong.
> Average Voltage (for fix current) has to be Energy / Capacity.


yeah *MC3000 calculates energy 100% correctly*. 

yay the device does not send Average Voltage to dex or pcls since it is not part of the interface description.

yes, seems like your quick-check calculation method for calculating Average Voltage isn't completely bad in theory :thumbsup: yet the correct value is numerically calculated in a more straight-forward manner in practice. towards the end your method gives the same result, however at the beginning your method fails or gives wrong results, please realize or never mind. using the data set given by you, the corresponding excel sheet with MyCalculations(1Hz) looks like dis:






yea the Average Voltage after 41.39hr should be *1.2305*…*V* (_number truncated after the 4th decimal_), you are right.

if you're wondering how the MyCalculations(1Hz) are implemented in Excel2010, here we go in animated GIF (_5 frames, 10s/frame; enough time to screenshot it hh_):






i have uploaded the xlsx file, if you want to study it in detail:
ExcelCalcTrans.rar (_download link expires after 30 days_)

you're saying that the bug only manifests itself if a discharge (or charge) routine takes longer than 18h? oic. yoh i will list and report the bug but no promises as to when or if they will etc. 

another awesome post brought by de squirrel


----------



## DT123

The 65536 seconds was a guess when I was looking on the graphs. 
When I examined the excel sheet it proofed me wrong.

But check line #86403. That's the moment when the MC3000 stopped to calculate the average voltage. 
I am pretty sure now that it stopped after 24 hours.


----------



## samgab

Version 3.2.9 of Data Explorer appears to break the MC3000 logging function.
64bit version, Windows 10.
I uninstalled and rolled back to 3.2.8 and it works again. Upgraded to 3.2.9 again, broken again. Uninstalled and rolled back to 3.2.8 again, and it's back to working again.
Anyone else having issues with 3.2.9?


----------



## kreisl

samgab said:


> Version 3.2.9 of Data Explorer appears to break the MC3000 logging function.
> 64bit version, Windows 10.
> I uninstalled and rolled back to 3.2.8 and it works again. Upgraded to 3.2.9 again, broken again. Uninstalled and rolled back to 3.2.8 again, and it's back to working again.
> Anyone else having issues with 3.2.9?


My dex test system today be Win7 Prof 64-bit Engrish. I heard that dex is getting a major new function (in 3.2.9? in 3.3.0?), a big portion of the 3.2.8 code has been altered since but i didn't test the 3.2.9 betas because i can work with 3.2.8 without running into unexpected dex behavior, don't fix a running system and actually i am a bit supplies to read that 3.2.9 has bug fixes for MC3000 support. Maybe the released 3.2.9 version is still in beta? Anywho.

I uninstalled my working 3.2.8 32-bit, downloaded and installed the very latest Java 64-bit & dex 64-bit. When pressing the Start gathering-button, dex throws the 'Missing serial port configuration yadda' error window. So i uninstalled Java 64-bit & dex 64-bit.
Then i downloaded and installed the very latest Java 32-bit & dex 32-bit. Same error. Game over. So i uninstalled dex 32-bit. 
Then i installed dex 3.2.8 32-bit, my fave! And when pressing the Start gathering-button, the slots get started by dex and every ting proceeds as it should hooray.

Looking at all dis, i must come to the conclusion that the culprit is the published 3.2.9 either bit version :thinking: (_EDIT: actually i am wrong hh, there is a trouble shooting for making new DEX versions work, my bad was the *incomplete *uninstallation of the previous DEX version, i'll talk about the details in another post_) and i'll stick with my fave for now. Whoever wants to roll back to 3.2.8 too, grab the setup.exe ASAP before it's taken down from the servee:
http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/


----------



## samgab

Update: as mentioned above, I was able to get 3.2.9 working by uninstalling 3.2.8 and then manually deleting the data explorer folder in appdata/roaming. Actually I changed it to BACKUP_dataexplorer, and I'm glad I did that and didn't actually delete it.
After getting rid of that folder and installing 3.2.9 again it worked, HOWEVER... It no longer controls the MC3000. I mean when you click start gathering, it just sits there saying "waiting for data" instead of starting the programs on the MC3000. You have to then manually start the programs on the MC3000 using the buttons, after which it then does gather the data.
So, I uninstalled 3.2.9 again, deleted the new dataexplorer folder, removed the "BACKUP_" from the old dataexplorer folder, and reinstalled 3.2.8 again, and now everything is working again.
The reason I was so keen to do the upgrade is because I really want it to stop that behaviour where it starts hundreds of new data lines after a program finishes for some unknown reason.


----------



## kreisl

samgab said:


> HOWEVER... It no longer controls the MC3000. I mean when you click start gathering, it just sits there saying "waiting for data" instead of starting the programs on the MC3000. You have to then manually start the programs on the MC3000 using the buttons, after which it then does gather the data.





> DataExplorer 3.2.9 released
> 
> Item posted on Sat 28 Jan 2017 02:37:28 PM UTC.
> 
> +++++ important update Java Runtime Version prerequisite to 1.8 +++++
> +++++ important update Java 32 Bit -Xmx1280m, 64 Bit -Xmx3096m +++++
> 1. fix early rounding while importing CSV data
> 2. fix CSV import capability using relative time stamp
> 3. fix table window flickering while continuous adding entries
> 4. add Raspbian 32 ARM support as downloadable tar.gz
> 5. add history analysis as beta support (need to be enabled in preferences)
> (…)
> 10. MC3000 SkyRC
> - switch to continuous data gathering for all slots by selecting MC3000-Set
> - remove automatic program start/stop, form now gathering rely on manual start/stop of processing
> - fix continuous record to gather pausing data
> - fix missing end of processing and create each second a new record set
> 11. Q200 SkyRC 4 channel charger
> - support up to 4 individual batteries added by Q200
> - support for a set up to 4 batteries added by Q200-Set



Yeah good catch. I didn't realize until i reread the release notes.

Also correct, the 'Missing serial port configuration yadda'-error won't appear if one uninstalls the previous DEX version completely, i.e. after the official uninstallation routine by *also manually deleting* the left-over folder %APPDATA%\*DataExplorer\Devices\*

for example under Win7 deleting 
C:\Users\krisell\AppData\Roaming\*DataExplorer\*.** will do the trick 

or under WinXP geman deleting
C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\kirsten\Anwendungsdaten\*DataExplorer\*.** will do it 

With these hints, users should be able to run DEX3.2.9 without further problems or surprises :twothumbs


----------



## samgab

I don't understand the difference between "MC3000" and "MC3000-set" in Data Explorer? Can anyone enlighten me? I seem to just use either interchangeably, and haven't seen any difference.


----------



## ninjasmoke

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I would like to ask a question about the MC3000 charger and DataExplore 3.2.9. Specifically operating on a Mac OS 10.12.2 computer.

Am I am the right form area for this kind of questions?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@DT123 , 
i have started Discharge -0.05A on old Eneloop AA, tracking Average(LCD) manually. I am logging the run with dex too, fingers crossed that there's no power blackout in our street. So i'll leave the PC on during the night np. My test is to show at what point (18h? 24?) the value becomes false, which would be incorrect. note that DEX takes the dexclock start value from the pcclock, obviously; from then on dexclock uses its own clocking speed and does not adopt pcclock timing any longer, which is correct behavior since the pcclock is absurdly inaccurate due to its cr*ppy BIOS/motherboard clocker. therefore we can safely ignore the pcclock through a "N/A" and focus on the clocking difference between nistclock and lcdtotal. also the time difference between lcdtotal and lcdtime should be 0s because there is only 1 charger routine, Discharge:



nistdate nistclock; dexdate dexclock; pcdate pcclock; lcdtotal; lcdtime; lcdaverage; dexaverage; comment 
2017-02-02 12:00:00; 2017-02-02 12:00:03.796; 2017-02-02 N/A; 0d00:00:00; 00:00:00; 1.487V; 1.487V; blah blah 
2017-02-02 14:00:00; 2017-02-02 14:00:03.796; 2017-02-02 N/A; 0d02:00:00; 02:00:00; ~1.429V; 1.429V; yadda yadda 
2017-02-02 23:00:00; 2017-02-02 23:00:03.796; 2017-02-02 N/A; 0d11:00:05; 11:00:05; ~1.333V; 1.33298V; dexclocking is 100% identical to nistclocking but lcdtotal is 5s ahead by now 
2017-02-03 00:00:00; 2017-02-03 00:00:03.796; 2017-02-03 N/A; 0d12:00:05; 12:00:05; ~1.328V; 1.328V; blah 
2017-02-03 06:42:09; 2017-02-03 06:42:12.796; 2017-02-03 N/A; 0d18:42:16; 00:30:00; 1.307V; 1.307V; i missed the point again, too early in the morning! 
2017-02-03 11:50:00; 2017-02-03 11:50:04.796; 2017-02-03 N/A; 0d23:50:10; 05:37:54; 1.295V; 1.2956V; 1s between nistclock and dexclock 
2017-02-03 12:00:00; 2017-02-03 12:00:04.796; 2017-02-03 N/A; 1d00:00:10; 05:47:54; 1.295V; 1.2952V; blah 
2017-02-03 18:00:00; 2017-02-03 18:00:05.796; 2017-02-03 N/A; 1d06:00:14; 11:47:58; 1.295V; 1.282V; blah 
2017-02-04 00:30:00; 2017-02-04 00:30:05.796; 2017-02-04 N/A; 1d12:30:16; 00:05:44; 1.295V; 1.258V; blah 
2017-02-04 01:00:00; 2017-02-04 01:00:05.796; 2017-02-04 N/A; 1d13:00:16; 00:35:44; 1.295V; 1.255V; blah 
2017-02-04 02:??:??; 2017-02-04 02:37:16.796; 2017-02-04 N/A; 1d14:37:28; 02:12:56; 1.295V; 1.243V; "1931mAh"/1931.1mAh 2.401Wh 

In the above data set i truncated the dexaverage after any number of decimals. The full values can be seen here, it is an extract of the full XLSX-table:





yeah looks like the lcdtime has a limit of 18h12min16s (= 65536s = (2^16)s ) before it resets to 00:00:00, for example:
1d13:00:16 = (24+13)h00min16s = (24+13)*3600+16 = *133216s* = (18+18)h(12+12+35)min(16+16+28)s = (18+18)*3600+(12+12+35)*60+(16+16+44) = *133216s q.e.d.*
and yeah the lcdaverage stops being computed after lcdtotal has reached 24h00min00s (or even before?).


total PC bios runtime = N/A 
total nist runtime = ~139031 nist-seconds 
dextime start = 2017-02-02 12:00:03.796, dextime end = 2017-02-04 02:37:16.796 => dextime difference = (24+14)*3600+37*60+(16-3) = 139033 dex-seconds 
exceltime = 139033 excel-rows for dextime (perfect!! because it means no missing data row produced by DEX!) 
total lcd runtime = 1d14h37min28s = (24+14)*3600+37*60+28 = 139048 lcd-seconds. 

We're learning that the dexclock is very much identical to nistclock, which is awesome: only ~2s deviation after over 38.5 effing hours!!
We're learning that lcdtotal and lcdtime are absolutely synchronous, which comes as no surprise.
We're also learning that lcdtime runs ahead, every slightly so: only ~15s ahead after over 38.5 effing hours!! We can't expect Rolex Quartz inside the charger, can we?
Capacity, Energy, and Voltage Average are calculated in the charger, naturally by using lcdtotal (or lcdtime) and high frequency sampling. These values are sent verbatim to DEX. In Excel, one can only make quick-check row calculations on the basis of dexclock and at 1Hz frequency. If the (15s/38.5h)-deviation were important AND one had to choose which of the two calculate values were more closer to the truth, the lcdvalue vs. the quick-check calculation value, then the answer would still be debatable. The quick-check calculation uses dextime for calculation, and dextime is much closer to nisttime, and nisttime is the truth. With this argument the quick-check calculation value should be closer to the truth. In practice, the difference between the 2 calculated values is irrelevant because it lies within the tolerance of the specs like 0.1% anyway. In our example:


lcdcapacity = "1931mAh" (produced by mc3k, i.e. based on lcdtotal and internal high frequency sampling, and truncated before the 1st decimal) 
dexcapacity = 1931.1mAh (produced by mc3k and sent to PC LINK port, based on lcdtotal and internal high frequency sampling) 
excelcapacity = 1930.9083333363300000mAh (calculated in Excel through numerical integration, based on dextime and 1Hz frequency) 
lcdenergy = "2.401Wh" (produced by mc3k, i.e. based on lcdtotal and internal high frequency sampling) 
dexenergy = 2.401Wh (produced by mc3k and sent to PC LINK port, based on lcdtotal and internal high frequency sampling) 
excelenergy = 2.40104841041644000000Wh (calculated in Excel through numerical integration, based on dextime and 1Hz frequency) 
lcdaverage after 24h = "1.295V" (produced by mc3k, i.e. based on lcdtime and internal high frequency sampling) 
excelaverage after 24 = 1.295259612490900V (calculated in Excel through numerical integration, based on dextime and 1Hz frequency) 
lcdaverage after 38.5h = "1.295V" (WTF bug, reporting under k#85 and k#86 thanks!!) 
excelaverage after 38.5h = 1.243497194931090V (calculated in Excel through numerical integration, based on dextime and 1Hz frequency) 

Verdict:
MC3000 has incredibly amazing clocking and calculation accuracy, after 38.5 effing hours for 1 single routine this results in a *0.2mAh* difference only lmao. Keep in mind that typically the 'average duration' of your routines will be 5-7 hours per routine, no? 
:nana:


----------



## ninjasmoke

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I would like to use DataExplorer ver. 3.2.9 app on my Mac OS Sierra (10.12.2).

I have a new SkyRC MC3000 charger running on firmware 1.13.

I am having problem installing the*createDummyUsbDriver.sh*provided at*http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/.

#!/bin/bash
# ***** script to create a dummy USB driver to make SkyRC device USB adapter usable with MAC OS X ** 01 Dec 2016 WB *****
# execution: sudo createDummyUsbDriver.sh
cp -r SkyRC.kext /System/Library/Extensions/
cd /System/Library/Extensions
chown -R root:wheel SkyRC.kext
chmod -R 755 SkyRC.kext
kextcache -system-caches
echo SkyRC USB dummy driver installed please reboot the system before connecting a SKyRC USB device again.

When executing line (4) cp -r SkyRC.kext /System/Library/Extensions/ I get this response "cp: SkyRC.kext: No such file or directory"

Evidently, there is no such file in the Extensions folder. *


How do I get a :SkyRC.kext file into the extension folder to begin with?????*

As far as I can tell, the DataExplorer app is running good other than it can not connect to the MC3000 charger.*

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian*


----------



## kreisl

samgab said:


> I don't understand the difference between "MC3000" and "MC3000-set" in Data Explorer? Can anyone enlighten me? I seem to just use either interchangeably, and haven't seen any difference.





_MC3000-Set_ : DEX saves the entire DEX session in a single *.OSD-file (all test runs, all dex tabs, all mc3k slots). You can open the 'big' osd file on some other day and add more sessions to the same file. advantage: all in one file and automatically and neatly 'organized' as long as you label all test runs neatly. disadvantage: a complex file could confuse the ignorant. 
_MC3000_ : DEX saves the selected 1 test run of a selected 1 slot in a single *.OSD-file. advantage: no complexity, no potential for confusion. disadvantage: for 1 test run in 4 slots you already get 4 files; having hundreds of 'small' osd files on the HDD could confuse the PC user omg. 
 
MC3000-Set compares to saving an entire complex Excel file (with lots of spreadsheets, graph sheets, doc sheets) in a single *.XLSX-file. 

What are OSD-files or what are they good for? - They are an offline backup of your entire DEX session (see _MC3000-Set_) or part of a DEX session (see _MC3000_). Once the osd file is opened, one could resume the DEX session, which makes especially sense for _MC3000-Set_. The OSD-file contains all data and graphics in compressed internal format and one can export the data (of 1 test run in 1 slot) to *.CSV-format at any time.

OSD-files are great. Everybody should own one. Lol.

:laughing:


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ninjasmoke said:


> I am having problem installing the*createDummyUsbDriver.sh*provided at*http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/.
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> # ***** script to create a dummy USB driver to make SkyRC device USB adapter usable with MAC OS X ** 01 Dec 2016 WB *****
> # execution: sudo createDummyUsbDriver.sh
> 
> Brian*


I know nothing about macOS, but a bash script is for linux usually

Do you have a sudo command in MACOS ?
This is to run a script as root/ superuser


----------



## DT123

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Yes right forum go ahead and ask.
> 
> I don't have MacOS but others here do .
> 
> @DT123 , i have started Discharge -0.05A on old Eneloop AA, tracking Average(LCD) manually:
> date time Average(LCD) Average(DEX)
> 2017-02-01 14:00:00 1.514V tba
> 
> I am logging the run with dex too, fingers crossed that there's no power blackout in our street. So i'll leave the PC on during the night np. My test is to show at what point (18h? 24?) the value increases, which would be incorrect.



The osd data of the two other alkaline cells which I depleted tell me that the MC3000 average voltage is the average voltage within the first 24 hours only. Then it stops.
You should check the data on MC3000 display several times after 24 hours. The data shouldn't change anymore.


----------



## samgab

kreisl said:


> MC3000-Set : DEX saves the entire DEX session in a single *.OSD-file (all test runs, all dex tabs, all mc3k slots). You can open the DEX file on some other day and add more sessions to the same file. advantage: all in one file and automatically and neatly 'organized' as long as you label all test runs neatly. disadvantage: a complex file could confuse the ignorant.
> MC3000 : DEX saves the 1 test run and 1 slot in a single *.OSD-file. advantage: no complexity, no potential for confusion. disadvantage: for 1 test run in 4 slots you already get 4 files. having hundreds of files on the HDD could confuse the PC user.
> 
> MC3000-Set compares to saving an entire complex Excel file (with lots of spreadsheets, graph sheets, doc sheets) in a single *.XLSX-file.
> 
> What are OSD-files or what are they good for? - They are an offline backup of your DEX session or part of the DEX session. Once opened, one could resume the DEX session, which makes especially sense for MC3000-Set. The OSD-file contains all data and graphics in compressed format and one can export the data (of 1 test run in 1 slot) to *.CSV-format at any time.



Thanks for clearing that up. Now I understand.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ravel said:


> I run a MC3000,
> I could not make DEX run under raspberry pi model 1 B (although I went quite far in compiling it)
> So I opened a thread with DEX :
> *sr #109066: cannot run under raspberry pi model 1 B. No java/ext directory ?*
> 
> here http://savannah.nongnu.org/support/index.php?109066


Debussy i heard that the DEX maker runs DEX on Raspi which is, of course, directly connected to MC3000 thru USB cable. DEX is installed on his Raspi, a 2W electrical consumer or whatnot. Yes one needs to install the Linux Version of DEX on the Raspi. He says that DEX recording the mc3k data on the Raspi works perfectly without a glitch, just the graphing of the data is ruckelig because of the small processing power of Raspis! ( i have no Linux no Raspi so i cannot give first-hand advice or support suis desolee )

Does everyone know what a Raspberry Pi is? Correct me if i am wrong. From what i know it is a credit card sized computer, super inexpensive, and comes with a pre-installed Linux-based OS. It has USB (input/output) ports and other ports like PC monitor. Obviously, during data recording, one can disconnect or turn off the monitor to save mains power. The funny thing is that MC3000 has a USB power output port, so you power the Raspi through it! Must be really cool.

With the availability of DEX (for Linux&Raspi) and of Raspi hardware i don't see the urgent need anymore to implement a SD card reader/writer in a dreamcharger! SD card formats change every year seems like and it would be impossible(?) to agree on "how" the multi-bay dreamcharger should write the data on the sdcard, which format, which test run, which slot, which data, which automatic title, which file name, etc. 

Sure, dealing with SDcards may(!) be more convenient, those cards are more common than Raspis. But .. i don't own any SD cards reader for my PC, so that's that!

I don't know how difficult, for a newbie like me, it is to learn where to buy a Raspi, how to install the Linux-version of DEX on it, and get the mc3k-DEX connection working. It would be great if there were a tutorial or a demo video or similar, created by an end user. The point is, it _is_ possible to log all the data without your PC/laptop being connected and running at the same time. You can't do the "offline" logging with SD cards but you'd do it with something more powerful and flexible: with a Raspi powered thru the USB output of the mc3k itself, how cool is that? 

It is a cost-effective and cool solution imho.

In theory one could think of an even more elegant solution, what about USB thumb flash drives instead of SD cards? Thumb drives are robuster than SD cards, they're EDC keychain items and perfect for carrying such data. Also, no SD card reader needed for the PC, since every PC can readily accept USB thumb drives without an adapter. (Well, not true, the very latest Apple laptop has only 1 USB-C socket iirc lol.)

Never mind.

No need to hope for a future dreamcharger with SD card slot or USB flash drive slot.

The future has arrived yet. Thanks to Raspi hardware AND dex Linux version. :thumbsup:


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> Debussy i heard that the DEX maker runs DEX on Raspi which is, of course, directly connected to MC3000 thru USB cable.
> ...
> ( i have no Linux no Raspi so i cannot give first-hand advice or support suis desolee )
> 
> The future has arrived yet. Thanks to Raspi hardware AND dex Linux version. :thumbsup:



I saw that 2 days ago
I will try soon

>>and comes with a pre-installed Linux-based OS. 
can be bought with nothing pre-installed as well

>>one can disconnect or turn off the monitor to save mains power. The funny thing is that >>MC3000 has a USB power output port, so you power the Raspi through it! Must be really cool.
Yes
You can be fully headless with ssh over ethernet

>>With the availability of DEX (for Linux&Raspi) and of Raspi hardware i don't see the urgent >>need anymore to implement a SD card reader/writer in a dreamcharger! 
Agreed.
Rasberry Pi V3 works with microSD

>>Raspis. But .. i don't own any SD cards reader for my PC, so that's that!
How about microSD ?
ANyhow you can retrieve data over ssh over a cat5 cable

>>I don't know how difficult, for a newbie like me, it is to learn where to buy a Raspi, 
Buying dead easy

>>how to install the Linux-version of DEX on it, and get the mc3k-DEX connection working. It 
There are lots of tutorial on raspberry but learning linux is a steep learning curve.
Following tutorials can be done with near no knowledge, but will make you want to learn

>>would be great if there were a tutorial or a demo video or similar, created by an end user. 
I cannot promise much, we will see

>>The point is, it _is_ possible to log all the data without your PC/laptop being connected and >>running at the same time. 
IMHO yes

>>You can't do the "offline" logging with SD cards 
Network ? 
With a 64 Gb SD card this would be lots of logging !
You can even automate copy from the SD card to a USB pen drive on the raspi itself

>>with a Raspi powered thru the USB output of the mc3k itself, how cool is that? 
>>It is a cost-effective and cool solution imho.
Well it was my idea first, was it not ? :twothumbs

>>In theory one could think of an even more elegant solution, what about USB thumb flash 
4 usb ports on raspi


>>No need to hope for a future dreamcharger with SD card slot or USB flash drive slot.
>>The future has arrived yet. Thanks to Raspi hardware AND dex Linux version
I am so gratefull to the DEX maintener, he followed up on my suggestion, this is great.


----------



## kreisl

_>>I saw that 2 days ago_
erh what exactly did you see? i haven't seen anything concrete so far :candle:

_>>Well it was my idea first, was it not ? _
hehe yep it was, very nice one!! Thanks so much for it






_>>I am so gratefull to the DEX maintener, he followed up on my suggestion, this is great._

agreed and appreciated


----------



## Ravel

https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/

There are plenty of suppliers / vendors, and tutorials of all sorts, so I just post the above official link.
Otherwise I am afraid we will go out off topic very fast.


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> _>>I saw that 2 days ago_
> erh what exactly did you see? i haven't seen anything concrete so far :candle:



I meant I saw DEX 3.2.9 release and the raspbian ARM note
at https://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=8785


----------



## Ravel

>>with a Raspi powered thru the USB output of the mc3k itself, how cool is that? 
Open the loop
Loop of loop !
Even cooler one can power the raspi with rechargeable batteries,
even eneloop I guess.

closing the loop
:twothumbs

Ok, my humour is daft


----------



## kreisl

_>>Loop of loop !_

maybe you could share a photo or two of your crunching pie when it is dex logging? I am dying to see something concrete oo:

have you got the dedicated pie 7″ touchscreen or which monitor/screen do you connect to your pie?


----------



## ninjasmoke

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes I have a sudo command ... Mac OSX is "Unix" though

I tried:


Sudo cp -r SkyRC.kext /System/library/extensions/

and it came back:

cp: SkyRC.kext: No such file or directory


??????


----------



## ninjasmoke

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ravel said:


> I know nothing about macOS, but a bash script is for linux usually
> 
> Do you have a sudo command in MACOS ?
> This is to run a script as root/ superuser



Yes, I have a sudo-command ... Mac OSX is Unix though. 

I tried:

Sudo cp -r SkyRC.kext /system/library/extensions/

And it came back as:

Cp: SkyRC.kext: no such file or directory

?????


----------



## StandardBattery

Ravel said:


> I saw that 2 days ago
> .....
> >>with a Raspi powered thru the USB output of the mc3k itself, ....
> Well it was my idea first, was it not ? :twothumbs
> 
> ....
> I am so gratefull to the DEX maintener, he followed up on my suggestion, this is great.



You and DEX come to the rescue. :goodjob:


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ninjasmoke said:


> Yes, I have a sudo-command ... Mac OSX is Unix though. I tried:Sudo cp -r SkyRC.kext /system/library/extensions/And it came back as:Cp: SkyRC.kext: no such file or directory?????


http://mirror6.layerjet.com/nongnu/...RC_Dummy_USB_Driver/createDummyUsbDriver.poop looks like you did not copy the zbove directory in the same directory where thé script is

I mean copy that directory

http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/MAC_OS_X_SkyRC_Dummy_USB_Driver/SkyRC.kext/


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> _>>Loop of loop !_
> 
> 
> have you got the dedicated pie 7″ touchscreen or which monitor/screen do you connect to your pie?



No touchscreen
Either i plugin over HDMI my PC screen
Or headless over ssh i then display it all
On a laptop or my pc. This is remote access with so called
X forwarding


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ninjasmoke said:


> Yes, I have a sudo-command ... Mac OSX is Unix though.
> 
> I tried:
> 
> Sudo cp -r SkyRC.kext /system/library/extensions/
> 
> And it came back as:
> 
> Cp: SkyRC.kext: no such file or directory
> 
> ?????



_Hello ninjasmoke, i found the following info in geman, lemme translate:_

MAC_OS_X_SkyRC_Dummy_USB_Driver is a directory and inside there is the "install script" and a folder SkyRC.kext. One needs the entire folder MAC_OS_X_SkyRC_Dummy_USB_Driver!






The entire directory SkyRC.kext constitutes the USB-driver and specifies it for the MAC OS X system. The command "cp -r" copies the directory recursively, i.e. in its entirety. Nowadays MAC OS X users aren't familiar with such command line switches or do not use the OS terminal mode with the command lines anymore similar to modern Windows users with their touch screen UI's. In any case one could simply change the directory to /System/Library/Extensions/ and check how the other drivers look there in order to get an idea of the file/folder situation.

The screenshot above should be helpful and solve the problem. SkyRC saved money by not registering on USB.ORG, now every customer who does _not _use Windows has to go to some lenghts.​
_Hope this helps, cheer kreisl _


----------



## kreisl

Ravel said:


> No touchscreen
> Either i plugin over HDMI my PC screen
> Or headless over ssh i then display it all
> On a laptop or my pc. This is remote access with so called
> X forwarding



_Thanks for the info!

Here is some more pertinent first-hand info from the maker as i understood it:_
One can use a normal PC monitor or even a TV, Raspi has HDMI for it, but one would need this only once, initially. Similarly with the keyboard. After everything is installed, set up, configured and running, one can unplug and get rid of screen and keyboard once and for all bye-bye, because one can control the Raspi also through VNC. VNC magically replicates the (bye-bye) Raspi screen on your remote PC or laptop. The transfer of files (*.OSD, *.CSV, *.BMP, and so on) between the Raspi and the PC/laptop can be done through "rsync" in either direction with no problems.

Since Raspian is a Debian Linux variant, the user needs to do troubleshooting similar to MAC OS troubleshooting. The Linux kernel recognizes the MC3000 USB-HID, but one needs to achieve the membership of a group through UDEV. Only then one gets the authorization to use the USB device.

The original power adapter of Raspi delivers 5V / 2A. Same as the USB power output of MC3000. Perfect match, nice.​
_Okay now we want to see some photos_ :kiss:


----------



## ninjasmoke

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> _Hello ninjasmoke, i found the following info in geman, lemme translate:_
> 
> MAC_OS_X_SkyRC_Dummy_USB_Driver is a directory and inside there is the "install script" and a folder SkyRC.kext. One needs the entire folder MAC_OS_X_SkyRC_Dummy_USB_Driver!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The entire directory SkyRC.kext constitutes the USB-driver and specifies it for the MAC OS X system. The command "cp -r" copies the directory recursively, i.e. in its entirety. Nowadays MAC OS X users aren't familiar with such command line switches or do not use the OS terminal mode with the command lines anymore similar to modern Windows users with their touch screen UI's. In any case one could simply change the directory to /System/Library/Extensions/ and check how the other drivers look there in order to get an idea of the file/folder situation.
> 
> The screenshot above should be helpful and solve the problem. SkyRC saved money by not registering on USB.ORG, now every customer who does _not _use Windows has to go to some lenghts.​
> _Hope this helps, cheer kreisl _



Yes, I did not download the "info.plist" file ... Thank you for pointing that out.





Is the "info.plist" shown (above) to replace the info.plist _already_ in the DataExplorer Contents folder?

And if not ...

Where is it supposed to be installed?


----------



## Ravel

Ravel said:


> >>would be great if there were a tutorial or a demo video or similar, created by an end user.
> I cannot promise much, we will see



_Tutorial for SkyRC on raspberry pi raspbian (this is just a recipe)

Assuming 
1) you have installed raspbian 
(at this stage and for the sake of the thread,
and for your benefit, do not use any other linux distribution unless you are linux-proficient)
2) You have internet connection on your raspi, and it is working ok
Else copy files via a usb pendrive
3) You have updated you device, 
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade
4) You are aware there is no firewall running and you have not changed the default password

5) You have configured your device to start with a prompt, that is a console with $
or you have gone desktop-graphical and ran a console window within the desktop
or are running on a local network ssh -X [email protected]
or are running VNC or all sort of putty via windows to access the raspi

Then my tutorial starts here, and this is just a recipe
You are in a console, powered raspi from an external power supply (nothing plugged from the MC3000) 
You adventure starts here :

[email protected]:~ $
From now on I will skip all $ (if you have a # you are root or some sort of god)
I run a 4.4.38-v7+ #938 SMP armv7l GNU/Linux
Pi 2 Model B, 1024MB RAM, 4 CPU
and raspbian 8
You can copy and make a script, or run line by line what follows_

#!/bin/bash
#Install and launch Dataexplorer within raspbian
#By Ravel
#version 0.0001c
# b : added command to make pi part of usergroup uucp
# c : bumped dataexplorer version to 3.30
uname -a
cat /proc/cpuinfo | egrep 'model|Hardware|Revision'
cat /etc/debian_version
echo 'All the latest Raspbian images come pre-installed with Java' ; java -version
mkdir mydataexplorer ; cd mydataexplorer
#wget http://download.savannah.gnu.org/re...xplorer-3.2.9-bin_RaspbianLinux_ARM_32.tar.gz 
wget http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/dataexplorer-3.3.0-bin_RaspbianLinux_ARM_32.tar.gz
wget http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/README.en 
wget http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/GNU_LINUX_SKYRC_UDEV_RULE/{50-SkyRC-Charger.rules,copyUdevRule.sh}
tar -xzvf dataexplorer-3.3.0-bin_RaspbianLinux_ARM_32.tar.gz
ls -l
ls -l /var/
sudo chgrp -R uucp /var/lock
_sudo usermod -a -G uucp pi_
chmod 700 copyUdevRule.sh
sudo ./copyUdevRule.sh

cat <<EOF
===============================
Non linux commands to come :
read and press OK, read en press OK again
close, close, menu <file><exit>
You will have exited DataExplorer
DEX will start in 10 seconds, stay there a few seconds and quit
===============================
EOF
sleep 10
cd DataExplorer/
./DataExplorer

cat <<EOF
===============================
Then plug the MC3000 usb cable into the raspi. Output should be like this:"

=============================== example ===================
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice kernel: [ 3268.531577] usb 1-1.2: new full-speed USB device number 6 using dwc_otg
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice kernel: [ 3268.635001] usb 1-1.2: New USB device found, idVendor=0000, idProduct=0001
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice kernel: [ 3268.635030] usb 1-1.2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice kernel: [ 3268.635047] usb 1-1.2: Product: STM32 Custm HID
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice kernel: [ 3268.635063] usb 1-1.2: Manufacturer: STMicroelectronics
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice kernel: [ 3268.635079] usb 1-1.2: SerialNumber: xxxxxx
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice kernel: [ 3268.639794] input: STMicroelectronics STM32 Custm HID as /devices/platform/soc/3f980000.usb/usb1/1-1/1-1.2/1-1.2:1.0/0003:0000:0001.0003/input/input2
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice kernel: [ 3268.640506] hid-generic 0003:0000:0001.0003: input,hidraw2: USB HID v1.01 Device [STMicroelectronics STM32 Custm HID] on usb-3f980000.usb-1.2/input0
Feb 2 20:14:41 nameofyourdevice systemd-udevd[3598]: failed to execute '/lib/udev/mtp-probe' 'mtp-probe /sys/devices/platform/soc/3f980000.usb/usb1/1-1/1-1.2 1 6': No such file or directory
=============================== end of example ============
EOF

echo "================================================================"
echo "Press <ctrl><c> in a few seconds to exit watching the system log"
echo "================================================================"
sudo tail -f /var/log/syslog 

echo "================================================================"
echo "Another way to see if the MC3000 is there :"
echo "================================================================"

lsusb -v | grep STMicroelectronics -B13 -A10

echo "================================================================"
echo "Now you launch DEX with this command ./DataExplorer "
echo "Your turn to play"
echo "================================================================"

cat <<EOF
When in DEX
Menu <device><device selection dialog><device selection, port overview> clock on MC3000, then OK, then close
And bob is you uncle !
You can run DEX as usual"
EOF

echo "This is the end, of the script"


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> _Okay now we want to see some photos_ :kiss:


----------



## kreisl

Ravel said:


> Must be a url via <insert image> ?


drag'n drop might not work, but you can try mark/select copy paste. 
but the standard way is with




, sure.

Awesome recipe, *thanks a million*!! Very inspiring and i will get into Raspi & Raspian as soon as i can, just because it looks like a great way to expand the possibilities of the mc3k device.

So are you saying that you managed to make everything work?? 

EDIT: I must say that your recipe looks less scary than the strict tone of the stringent firmware FW1.13 upgrade instructions 
EDIT2: thanks also for the tinypic share!! (_it is indeed tiny resolution  and the pic URL will expire soon, such is tinypicDOTcom usage terms; uploads on abload.de don't get deleted_)


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> _Okay now we want to see some photos_ :kiss:


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> So are you saying that you managed to make everything work??
> 
> I must say that your recipe looks less scary than the strict tone of the stringent firmware FW1.13 upgrade instructions



Yep working indeed
Cable forest not needed
Did not experience much lag on the DEX screen, did not try a long run though

Instructions a bit OTT and not optimised
Just to give a flavour
I put some debugging instructions on purpose and did not fully automised the stuff

But at least (at last) that was my due to the DEX maintener really


----------



## kreisl

Please feel free to maintain the recipe post (v0.0001a v0.0001b …), i have added a link to it from the front page post ("the list"). Really awesome!



Ravel said:


> Cable forest not needed


what i can see and understand:
- the red cable is the "PC Link" USB data connection from mc3k device to raspi device.
- the 'HDMI'-labeled cable is going to your (temporary) screen
- the black micro-USB (bottom right) cable is going to your 5V power source. Let's connect it to the 5V 2.1A USB power output of mc3k device, no?
- the grey cable is for Ethernet/internet connection thru cable
- the black USB cable (top left) is going to your (temporary) keyboard

Is that correct?


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> Please feel free to maintain the recipe post (v0.0001a v0.0001b …), i have added a link to it from the front page post ("the list"). Really awesome!
> 
> 
> what i can see and understand:
> - the red cable is the "PC Link" USB data connection from mc3k device to raspi device.
> - the 'HDMI'-labeled cable is going to your (temporary) screen
> - the black micro-USB (bottom right) cable is going to your 5V power source. Let's connect it to the 5V 2.1A USB power output of mc3k device, no?
> - the grey cable is for Ethernet/internet connection thru cable
> - the black USB cable (top left) is going to your (temporary) keyboard
> 
> Is that correct?



Yes correct
White underneath is a wifi dongle
The captured screen and all the script and running where done over ssh
So none of the temp devices were in fact used
I wanted a forest for the pic 

>>the black micro-USB (bottom right) cable is going to your 5V power source. Let's connect it to the 5V 2.1A USB power output of mc3k device, no?
Next step
I wanted first to warn people
do not skimp on power supply, otherwise the PI will blink (you can get a sign top right of screen looking like a thunderlight), or people will have errors on USB ports
or not enough power to run some external HD drive or what not (even sometimes for the CPU).
So quality and 10 W is rather a good investment (requirements may vary with PI models)
(I use some mobile phone charger with success)

Second, yes one can power from the MC3000 USB to micro/nano USB of PI.

Third, actually some PI are designed for ''reverse USB power''.
That is, one can bring the power into the PI just by one of the 4 USB ports (with limitations, this needs some serious reading)
but potentially maybe even one less cable.

Edited : added info


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> _Thanks for the info!
> 
> Here is some more pertinent first-hand info from the maker as i understood it:_
> One can use a normal PC monitor or even a TV, Raspi has HDMI for it, but one would need this only once, initially. Similarly with the keyboard. After everything is installed, set up, configured and running, one can unplug and get rid of screen and keyboard once and for all bye-bye, because one can control the Raspi also through VNC. VNC magically replicates the (bye-bye) Raspi screen on your remote PC or laptop. The transfer of files (*.OSD, *.CSV, *.BMP, and so on) between the Raspi and the PC/laptop can be done through "rsync" in either direction with no problems.
> 
> Since Raspian is a Debian Linux variant, the user needs to do troubleshooting similar to MAC OS troubleshooting. The Linux kernel recognizes the MC3000 USB-HID, but one needs to achieve the membership of a group through UDEV. Only then one gets the authorization to use the USB device.
> 
> The original power adapter of Raspi delivers 5V / 2A. Same as the USB power output of MC3000. Perfect match, nice.​
> _Okay now we want to see some photos_ :kiss:



>>but one would need this only once, initially
In a perfect world, for an advanced user
Not forgetting to install VNC, enabling ssh and god knows what else
(for example : support for NTFS formated drives)
Plus users will want to play around with raspbian.
Do not forget the option to disable the desktop (and other services) to save memory and CPU

>>The transfer of files (*.OSD, *.CSV, *.BMP, and so on) between the Raspi and the PC/laptop >>can be done through "rsync" in either direction with no problems.
Indeed, rsync is a great advanced cp command, over a network capable,
or with command cp and a usb drive
or by setting up a samba share
or by creating a networked shared directory via sshfs (those going full linux)
etc

>>power
See my previous post warnings on the power topic.
The raspberry can be powered from a battery bank like those
to charge mobile phone (this might leave the USB ports short powered)


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Ravel said:


> I know nothing about macOS, but a bash script is for linux usually
> 
> Do you have a sudo command in MACOS ?
> This is to run a script as root/ superuser



Yes Ravel, MacOS is built on top of a Linux (like) OS :twothumbs


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Benediction said:


> Yes Ravel, MacOS is built on top of a Linux (like) OS :twothumbs


Thanks a lot.

Well I was not very clear.
I know next to nothing, I only knew MACOS _vamperised_ :naughty: :wave: some linux stuff, or inspiration.

But I really really did not know that there was a console user mode in MACOS !
Next time sbdy ask for help with a MAC I will ask for the console mode 
I feel less ignorant, and I can convert mac users to command line mode now (maybe not :mecry

Closing the off-topic


----------



## Ravel

Ravel said:


> Yes correct
> >>the black micro-USB (bottom right) cable is going to your 5V power source. Let's connect it to the 5V 2.1A USB power output of mc3k device, no?
> Next step
> I wanted first to warn people
> do not skimp on power supply, otherwise the PI will blink (you can get a sign top right of screen looking like a thunderlight), or people will have errors on USB ports
> or not enough power to run some external HD drive or what not (even sometimes for the CPU).
> So quality and 10 W is rather a good investment (requirements may vary with PI models)
> (I use some mobile phone charger with success)
> 
> Second, yes one can power from the MC3000 USB to micro/nano USB of PI.
> 
> Third, actually some PI are designed for ''reverse USB power''.
> That is, one can bring the power into the PI just by one of the 4 USB ports (with limitations, this needs some serious reading)
> but potentially maybe even one less cable.



Power requirements are here
https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs
and in the same link for what I called ''reverse usb power'' is what I once read about that topic :

_CAN I POWER THE RASPBERRY PI FROM A USB HUB?
__It depends on the hub. Some hubs comply with the USB 2.0 Standard and only provide 500mA per port, which may not be enough to power your Raspberry Pi.
...
Please also be aware that some hubs have been known to “backfeed” the Raspberry Pi. This means that the hubs will power the Raspberry Pi through its USB input cable, without the need for a separate micro-USB power cable, and bypass the voltage protection. If you are using a hub that “backfeeds” to the Raspberry Pi and the hub experiences a power surge, your Raspberry Pi could potentially be damaged

More details here
http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.co...e-usb-ports-be-used-to-power-the-raspberry-pi
partial quote showing that further reading is needed on that topic if one is intersted




Things have moved on a bit, the situation now depends on which model of Pi you have.


On early raspberry pi model B boards the polyfuses on the USB ports will initially allow backpowering but are likely to trip out due to overcurrent before the Pi successfully boots.
On later raspberry pi model B boards (rev 1 "eco1" with links instead of polyfuses and rev2), raspberry pi model A and A+ boards and raspberry pi zero boards you can backpower from the USB ports.
On raspberry pi model B+ and raspberry pi 2 model B boards there is a power control chip on the board. This will prevent the board from starting up under backpower from the USB ports but interestingly it will allow backpowering after the board has started.



Click to expand...




_


----------



## vronp

Hi,

What is the brand/model of that "Red Switch" please?

thanks,
Dave



kreisl said:


> Nice one! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer my solution with red switch at high side. Because the adapter contains energy which i feel should be released when we power off the charger, no?
> 
> Sent from my Note 4
> Not using Tapatalk


----------



## kreisl

@Ravel, 
fantastic info and links! I never went into Linux, Debian or Raspi before but now with your recipe and DEX3.2.9 i am planning to have Raspi on my purchase list this year. FT, BG, GB carry the Raspi items too, too bad that i missed out on the CNY holiday discount season to save a few bucks 



vronp said:


> What is the brand/model of that "Red Switch" please?


Hi vronp, the original post is here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=4829154&viewfull=1#post4829154

...this particular switch version seems out of stock or even out of production/Discontinued. I got mine from FT back then.


----------



## vronp

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ninjasmoke said:


> Yes, I did not download the "info.plist" file ... Thank you for pointing that out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is the "info.plist" shown (above) to replace the info.plist _already_ in the DataExplorer Contents folder?
> 
> And if not ...
> 
> Where is it supposed to be installed?




Hi,

It goes in the 
/System/Library/Extensions/SkyRC.kext/Contents/

folder.

I had trouble with the script not working right so I just manually set this up. Just follow the script line by line.


----------



## vronp

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So, I'm just getting into playing around with DEX and I either misunderstood the DEX capabilities or I am missing something.

Is it possible to create "charging profiles" in DEX and upload them to the MC3000? It sure would be nice to build a library of profiles that could be shared on this forum.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vronp said:


> So, I'm just getting into playing around with DEX and I either misunderstood the DEX capabilities or I am missing something.
> 
> Is it possible to create "charging profiles" in DEX and upload them to the MC3000? It sure would be nice to build a library of profiles that could be shared on this forum.


The main functionality of DEX/MC3000 is (comprehension note: _manually _= your hands dirty on the device):


DEX-*logging *data to external screen (you need to start slots on the charger _manually_!) and DEX-saving data to PC-file format (OSD, CSV, BMP/PNG). We learned from Ravel and the DEX-maker that, in the end, you don't even need a PC/laptop for long-term logging: Raspi is a 2-4Watts PCB which could do the DEX-logging instead of your remote PC/laptop. 
DEX-*backup *of your _manually _entered 30 programs in visual PC-file format (TXT) or functional PC-file format (XML). The XML-file would be also suitable for direct sharing; just don't change the original file name, then overwrite the existing file with the shared one. The XML-file is not meant for public sharing, i am just saying that it could be used for it instead of sharing TXT-file or reposting the TXT-file contents on forums. 
DEX-*restore *of backed up programs from the XML-file. The restore is fugitive since the current settings in the *slot *are overwritten but not in the device *memory*. The 30 programs in the device memory remain untouched when you do a DEX-restore, similar to the workings of the bluetooth app. For example, you could run 4 programs sourced from your fliend's XML temporarily in the charger bay, none of which matches any of the 30 programs stored on the charger; basically making your charger host 34 different programs at that moment: 30 device programs plus 4 'slot programs'. When you stop a slot or play with the device keys lol, the DEX-restored program in the slot will be gone and the slot is ready to start the indicated program number. 
 
The above explanation of DEX functionality answers your question: No it is not possible to _create _a charging profile from scratch in DEX. 

For building a library of profiles, a big TXT-file or summ ting, one would do the following: 


Create charging profiles _manually _on the device, up to 30 different ones at a time. Either by heart from scratch or by peeking at a small TXT-file/printout  
Send the 30 programs to DEX for a DEX-backup. DEX automatically creates that XML-file, the file name and location are fixed! 
In the DEX 'MC3000-Dialog' window use the <Clipboard> button and copy paste the programs in visual format to a single TXT-file. At the end of the day your TXT-file will contain 30 programs in visual format. 
Go to 1., and repeat the steps. Add as many different programs to the TXT-file as you want. 
Now you have a big library in form of 1 single big TXT-file. Feel free to share (file upload or content copy paste) or print out. 
 
For illustration purposes lemme repost the animated really awesome GIF demonstrating the 'MC3000-Dialog'. i am pretty proud of the file and i will never get tired of reposting it or its URL:









​
lol


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vronp said:


> What is the definition of "charge end current"? I do not see a reference in the MC3000 manual.
> 
> I tried a refresh run on a laptop battery pull with a voltage of 2.26V. The charge cycle seemed to go well and I expected the discharge cycle to begin once the charge current dropped to 50mA. It did not.
> 
> I'm on the latest firmware for the MC3000. Can someone clue me in as to what is supposed to trigger the discharge cycle?


charge end current could be a different wording for TERMINATION. The bluetooth app must have been written by someone else or they decided to write longer names for the options. 'charge end current' would be too long a word on the LCD me thinks.

Directly after the charge routine the charger does a resting routine. In SPV it is called C.RESTING . Once the rest phase is over, the charger goes into the discharge routine.


----------



## ninjasmoke

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vronp said:


> Hi,
> 
> It goes in the
> /System/Library/Extensions/SkyRC.kext/Contents/
> 
> folder.
> 
> I had trouble with the script not working right so I just manually set this up. Just follow the script line by line.




Vronp, Thanks for the reply. 

Are you saying that I first have to create a empty "folder" in the Extensions folder then re-name that folder "SkyRC.kext" then open that folder and then create another folder and rename it "contents" then ... put the skyRC "info.plist" file into that? 

Then after doing this I go back into Terminal and run the "createDummyUsbDriver.sh" shell? 

I don't seem to have permissions to attach screen shots. sorry 

Thanks,

Brian


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

@DT123 , 
i have finished all tests, see my earlier post for the details etc, and i was able to confirm your observations. i am sure that the maker was aware of the phenomenon when the code for routine time and for Voltage Average in SOV was implemented yet nobody guessed that users would create programs consisting of routines longer than 18h or 24h (per routine!!) 



kreisl said:


> *++++++++++++++further potential firmware changes in future: ++++++++++++++*
> (k#85) in SOV, routine timer Time has a 65536 seconds-per-routine limitation which looks nn (CONFIRMED, PENDING)
> (k#86) in SOV, Average stops getting updated after routine timer Time has exceeded the 24h mark (CONFIRMED, PENDING)



While it is clear where in the code and how the 2 issues could be fixed, i don't know how easy it will be to fix them without changing the firmware structure. If the interface specification of FW1.13 and of the next firmware update are compatible with each other, then i'd suggest a hot release possibly named FW1.13.1. Compatible means that the identical 3.2.9 DEX would work with either 1.13.x FW version. Otherwise it'd take some time to see FW1.14 released and the matching 3.3.0 DEX. FYI the DEX author releases about 4 updates per year. Personal comment, k#85 and k#86 are clear issues but imho not too urgent because in practice they surface very rarely. mc3k programs with such long routines .. phuntastique!


----------



## vronp

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You're close.

I believe the subdirectory is "Contents" (capital C).

My Contents folder has Info.plist and Info.plist.sig in it. I don't know how important the .sig file is but it was there along with Info.plist so I put it in place.

Then, you must _carefully_ follow the rest of the script and be sure to put sudo in front of every command.

So, you do:

sudo chown -R root:wheel SkyRC.kext
sudo chmod -R 755 SkyRC.kext
sudo kextcache -system-caches

And, the final echo command is informational only. BUT, be sure to reboot after running these commands.





ninjasmoke said:


> Vronp, Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Are you saying that I first have to create a empty "folder" in the Extensions folder then re-name that folder "SkyRC.kext" then open that folder and then create another folder and rename it "contents" then ... put the skyRC "info.plist" file into that?
> 
> Then after doing this I go back into Terminal and run the "createDummyUsbDriver.sh" shell?
> 
> I don't seem to have permissions to attach screen shots. sorry
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brian


----------



## vronp

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I should have also made the following comment as I am trying to be as specific as possible.

You DON'T go back and run that shell script because we are essentially running it line by line here.



vronp said:


> You're close.
> 
> I believe the subdirectory is "Contents" (capital C).
> 
> My Contents folder has Info.plist and Info.plist.sig in it. I don't know how important the .sig file is but it was there along with Info.plist so I put it in place.
> 
> Then, you must _carefully_ follow the rest of the script and be sure to put sudo in front of every command.
> 
> So, you do:
> 
> sudo chown -R root:wheel SkyRC.kext
> sudo chmod -R 755 SkyRC.kext
> sudo kextcache -system-caches
> 
> And, the final echo command is informational only. BUT, be sure to reboot after running these commands.


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Well...yes we *could* share the slot programs, but it would not be readable within the XML format file that DEX saves for the 30 slots.
And as Kreisl said earlier we *can't* modify DEX's xml file, because it has a "checksum" and would detect/reject any changes.

Here is the format of the XML file - nothing very obvious about how it represents MC3000 settings.<Program Name="[04] - NEW-PROG-NAME">
<SetupData>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA==</SetupData>
</Program>
<Program Name="1.0/-1.0 * 3 [2100] -> 0.9">
<SetupData>XwAAAwQINAPoA+gDhAYiAG4D6AMFAAAAAAAtAAAAAAUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAug==</SetupData>
</Program>


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> @Ravel, fantastic info and links! I never went into Linux, Debian or Raspi before but now with your recipe and DEX3.2.9 i am planning to have Raspi on my purchase list this year.


You will have fun. Tutorial in next post


----------



## Ravel

*Remote control of DEX running on a Raspberry Pi 
Tutorial or recipe version 0.001a
*
Here are 3 or 4 solutions (welcome to linux)

Solution 1 : remote Pi desktop with tightvnc
Solution 2 : no remote desktop, no window control 
Solution 3 : no remote desktop, xpra for window control

Your mileage may vary according to your needs and OS.
This is intended RASPI to linux, but I suppose very little needs changing for windows users (GUI).
I prefer number 2. I suppose n° 1 is the best-seller.

==============================================
========== Solution 1 : remote Pi desktop with tightvnc ====
==============================================
The most versatile solution : full control of the remote PI desktop

Plenty of tutorials, here some ideas
http://www.howtogeek.com/141157/how...r-remote-shell-desktop-and-file-transfer/all/
http://www.instructables.com/id/Setting-up-a-VNC-Server-on-your-Raspberry-Pi/
https://www.robertsetiadi.com/installing-vnc-server-in-raspberry-pi/

Skipping the automation for starting VNC on the raspi at boot time,
one just needs to install on the PI side a vnc server, for example :
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
sudo apt-get install tightvncserver
#Then start it and give it a password, 1 is the number assigned to the desktop
tightvncserver :1

On the linux laptop side assuming (the client side) xtightvncviewer is installed
(window users will also have plenty of remote access solutions, like
http://www.tightvnc.com/download.php)

One can connect on laptop side with:
xtightvncviewer 192.168.x.y:1
On can remote-click on the dataexplorer to launch it, play around,
then kill the xtightvncviewer window.
Come back later with xtightvncviewer 192.168.x.y:1
dataexplorer will have continued running.

#On the PI side to kill the server
tightvncserver -kill :1

======================================================
========== Solution 2 : no remote desktop, no window control ======
======================================================
Trouble with this solution, one cannot resize dataexplorer window
(maybe possible, I did not try to find what is missing). Save memory/CPU.
Inspired from Headless VNC-Server using xvfb
at http://www.kaltpost.de/?page_id=84

#RASPI side
sudo apt-get install x11vnc
x11vnc -storepasswd
Xvfb :1 &
or better 
Xvfb :1 -screen 0 1600x1200x16 &
cd Dataexplorer (wherever you are you need to cd into the dataexplorer directory,
since we have not defined a default path for the dataexplorer java file)
DISPLAY=:1 xeyes &
DISPLAY=:1 ./Dataexplorer &

#On the client side, quotes are important
ssh -L 5900:localhost:5900 [email protected] 'x11vnc -rfbauth /home/pi/.vnc/passwd -localhost -display :1'
#If you are curious of what the above does
netstat -tuan
#and in antother console
xtightvncviewer localhost


======================================================
========== Solution 3 : no remote desktop, xpra for window control ===
======================================================
no raspi desktop on server side, DEX is running in laptop (client) via xtra as a resizeable application
Inspired from Remote display with xpra, NX equivalent
at https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=13968
using http://xpra.org/

#Raspi side
sudo apt-get install libx11-dev libxtst-dev libxcomposite-dev libxdamage-dev python-all-dev python-gobject-dev python-gtk2-dev cython xvfb xauth x11-xkb-utils
sudo apt-get install libxkbfile-dev
sudo apt-get install python3-dev
sudo apt-get install tightvncserver x11vnc

wget http://xpra.org/src/xpra-0.14.37.tar.bz2
#older version may not work with newer version of ssh
#0.14.xy is the old LTS (long term support) release. This legacy version will be discontinued in early 2017.
#I experienced compiler errors with v1.0
tar xjf xpra-0.14.37.tar.bz2 
cd xpra-0.14.37/
#less INSTALL 
#nano setup.py
#disable x264 or find out how to enable it. Next line does the disabling
# clue :
# sudo aptitude install libx11-dev libxtst-dev libxcomposite-dev libxkbfile-dev libxdamage-dev python-gobject-dev python-gtk2-dev xvfb cython libx264-dev libswscale-dev libavcodec-dev libvpx-dev libavformat-dev
#Disabling x264 for now
sed --in-place 's/enc_x264_ENABLED = True/enc_x264_ENABLED = False/' setup.py
#compiling and installing xpra
sudo ./setup.py install 
cd ..
xpra --version
xpra start :101
pstree
DISPLAY=:101 xeyes &
DISPLAY=:101 lxterminal &
jobs
#adapt to approriate directory, or not needed if Dataexplorer is in the default path (hint : see command env)
cd mydataexplorer/DataExplorer/
DISPLAY=:101 ./DataExplorer &
ps -eaf

#On the laptop (client side)
#assuming you also have installed xpra one way or another
#full alternate syntax is 
#ssh/[USERNAME[ASSWORD]@]HOST[:SSH_PORT]/DISPLAY 
xpra attach ssh[email protected]:101
#to quit client side (press Control-C to detach)
#this will leave DEX alive on the raspberry

From the documentation :
xpra start ssh/[email protected] --start-child=xterm
Xpra normally forwards just the windows of the application you are interested in. If you want to forward a full desktop instead (including its start menu, background, task bar, etc...) use the "start-desktop" mode: example with fluxbox
xpra start-desktop --start-child=fluxbox

======================================================
========== Solution 4 : no remote desktop, NX for window control ===
======================================================
Enterprise solution see
http://www.tiaowiki.com/w/Install_NX_Server_on_Raspberry_Pi


========= end


----------



## Ravel

Proof screen capture firefox on client side and above the remote PI desktop

[url=http://abload.de/image.php?img=raspbian-mc3000-tighp3uz7.jpeg]


[/URL]


----------



## kreisl

post #4444 scnr :thumbsup:​


----------



## Ravel

Screenshot with xpra, taken on Laptop

LTop = DEX
RTop = lxterminal from pi, running htop on pi
middle = xeyes (running on the pi)
bottom = launching xpra, client side
very bottom = ssh session from latop to PI, launched DEX via DISPLAY:101 on the PI


----------



## DT123

Is there a way to synchronise the actions of all 4 slots?
If I do a cycle C>D or C>D>C and log it with DEX then I would like to synchronise the Discharge. 
I would like to see on the graphic the start time of discharge at the same position of the x-axis.

Can I persuade the MC3000 to do this? 
Is there a way to do that in DEX?
Or do I have to export all data and use Excel for that? 

It would be nice to have an optional pause property and all paused slots will continue their job after pressing a specific button.


----------



## igorvis

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



millguy said:


> Anyone with a bricked charger due to failed firmware update, it's probably not really bricked!
> SkyRc sent me a different updater.


Hello Millguy. Can you please share the mentioned unbrick tools with me? I bricked my mc3000 trying to update to V1.13 on Win7(x64). That buggy updater crashed at ~75%.
As far as I'm new on this forum I'm still restricted to send PMs directly. So trying to contact you via this post...


----------



## kreisl

Hi, i can't think of any way to make DEX synchronize the Discharge routines of your different slots/slot programs. Neither mc3k device can do it nor can DEX afaik. Yes we would need to post-process the data with Excel for this purpose. There is no other way afaik.

Pausing. Interesting idea. You want to pause every slot independently through a key stroke on the charger? I can't imagine which key stroke that could be. Anyone? And which key stroke to release all paused slots altogether?

If i like your key stroke suggestion, i'll make it happen


----------



## ninjasmoke

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



vronp said:


> So, I'm just getting into playing around with DEX and I either misunderstood the DEX capabilities or I am missing something.
> 
> Is it possible to create "charging profiles" in DEX and upload them to the MC3000? It sure would be nice to build a library of profiles that could be shared on this forum.




Vronp,

I finally got everything working and thanks the everyone's help.

I have attached a .pdf file giving step-by-step procedure for installing the "createDummyUsbDriver.sh" onto MAC OS X computer with minimal "Terminal" interaction.


----------



## DT123

kreisl said:


> Pausing. Interesting idea. You want to pause every slot independently through a key stroke on the charger? I can't imagine which key stroke that could be. Anyone? And which key stroke to release all paused slots altogether?


I want to pause as part of the program. And continue all paused slots.



kreisl said:


> If i like your key stroke suggestion, i'll make it happen


The red button (switch) near your power adapter :naughty:

I don't know - perhaps a unique feature available only for the Apps (windows, androids, ...)?


----------



## kreisl

DT123 said:


> I don't know - perhaps






hehe funni red switch won't do. 

hope you can know, since you're the one suggesting the new feature. :naughty:
let your imagination form a concrete picture, clear in its details in your mind, and lay them out for us thanks.

the only key stroke left is short-pressing STOP in SOV or DDV. we had removed it, too many people clicking it inadvertently iwrc


----------



## ddg

Hello. Another first post by someone in this thread. I've ordered one of these chargers for use with li ion for flashlights for the ability to set top voltage and storage functions. I've tried searching and am slowly reading my way through but still have many pages to go.
First question is about storage mode. I've downloaded the app and am looking at the settings to get familiar with everything. If I wanted to have a final charge of 3.7v would I set the charge cut voltage at 3.7v, would I also have the discharge cut voltage at 3.7v and the charger will automatically charge or discharge depending on starting voltage of the battery? Or do you set the discharge lower (3v) and it first discharges to that amount then charges to 3.7v?
The second question is about battery longevity. Is it easier on a battery (again Li Ion) to charge to 4.2v with a higher termination current (10-20%) that settles more on rest or to charge to a 4.15v target with a lower termination current (5%) to have less of a drop after resting?
These are things that weren't available on my current charger so I appreciate any help or comments.
Thanks


----------



## kreisl

hi, welcome on CPF!

the charger has a dedicated storage operation mode. once you've set this mode, you'd set 3.7V as your TARGET VOLT, other voltages cannot be set afaik. the charger will then charge or discharge depending on the voltage at start.

the second question i cannot answer, i never did my own research/study of effects on battery chemistry and also never cared to read journal articles on any related topic. maybe there is a scientific paper on 'the effects of low termination current on lower liion voltages versus high termination current on higher liion voltages', somebody else here would know, not me. it is an interesting question though because it is a simple question (because it is straight-forward) and i cannot answer it.


----------



## vronp

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Glad to hear it is working. The more Mac users on this forum, the better. 

The link in your post wasn't working for me. I would be interested in seeing the PDF in the interest of perhaps offering edits.




ninjasmoke said:


> Vronp,
> 
> I finally got everything working and thanks the everyone's help.
> 
> I have attached a .pdf file giving step-by-step procedure for installing the "createDummyUsbDriver.sh" onto MAC OS X computer with minimal "Terminal" interaction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://apia.wd2go.com/api/1.0/rest...9b619153a0cc236154e3fb3799cb0c1976bd376bd3698


----------



## ninjasmoke

Vronp,
I agree! 

I just touched on the link and the file came up so give it a try again.

If you're still having problems I can send you my email address or you send me yours and I can send it to you that way?


----------



## kreisl

ninjasmoke said:


> I just touched on the link and the file came up so give it a try again.


curious what your PDF file looks like thanks.

try to clear your cache/stash/of/cookies , then i am sure that your download link will stop working for ya.

i upload files on filehorst.de or zippyshare.com . no registration or login required . just fire away .


----------



## ninjasmoke

kreisl said:


> curious what your PDF file looks like thanks.
> 
> try to clear your cache/stash/of/cookies , then i am sure that your download link will stop working for ya.
> 
> i upload files on filehorst.de or zippyshare.com . no registration or login required . just fire away .



Kreisl,

I am using my Apple iPad and or Apple iPhone and touching on the link works fine. I am we also using the candle power app on my iPad. I stored it on my WD mycloud.

Here is a drop box link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zalptfhbk7bdiwd/MC3000 Driver Install Dicrections for MAC OS X.pdf?dl=0


----------



## kreisl

A : Can you see the moon too? It's so beautiful tonight!
B : Where is the moon? I cannot see it.
A : Why can't you see it? It's right there, in the skyrc, where it should be.
B : I can't see it probably because it is mycloudy over here.
A : Huh, I didn't think of that. Where are you?
B : I am in Galicia, Spain.
A : Oh.


----------



## ninjasmoke

kreisl said:


> i do believe you and that the links works fine for you .
> 
> but when you log out of your clouds and uninstall the apps and whatnot and clear the cookies, then … etc .
> 
> then again, i don't know myself how to log out of my phone apps like messengers and i also don't know how to reset them or clear the cookies .
> 
> good point ! :huh:



LOL LOL 

[email protected]


----------



## ddg

Thanks for the help! Looking forward to being hands on with the charger.





kreisl said:


> hi, welcome on CPF!
> 
> the charger has a dedicated storage operation mode. once you've set this mode, you'd set 3.7V as your TARGET VOLT, other voltages cannot be set afaik. the charger will then charge or discharge depending on the voltage at start.
> 
> the second question i cannot answer, i never did my own research/study of effects on battery chemistry and also never cared to read journal articles on any related topic. maybe there is a scientific paper on 'the effects of low termination current on lower liion voltages versus high termination current on higher liion voltages', somebody else here would know, not me. it is an interesting question though because it is a simple question (because it is straight-forward) and i cannot answer it.


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> Hi, i can't think of any way to make DEX synchronize the Discharge routines of your different slots/slot programs. Neither mc3k device can do it nor can DEX afaik. Yes we would need to post-process the data with Excel for this purpose. There is no other way afaik.



Maybe in the mc3k there could be an option to start the next step of all the cycles
only when all the active slots have achieved their resting time ?
I suppose the idea is intended with the same program running on 2 to 4 slots (similar batteries).
In that case the resting time programmed in all the slots is in fact a minimum,
some batteries may be experiemcing longer durations, but one may not care.

The other possible implementation, whichever slot reaches first its spent resting time,
would command going to the next step (next cycle) for ALL slots.

Do I make sense ?
Regards


----------



## doctordun

OttaMattaPia said:


> AFAIK, there is no "warranty Process" At least not in the USA.
> 
> That said,there are "some" sellers who do take that role upon themselves it seems.
> 
> Has ANYONE in the USA sent their MC3000 back for warranty service?
> If so, please say how.
> 
> Why doesn't SkyRC have a US based office for handling warranties?
> 
> I want to buy one but have had too much defective product from SkyRC with no solid warranty availability (in the USA)
> 
> My apologies in advance if I'm simply uninformed and there is an easy way to get warranty service.



I, too, am curious about the warranty process. I was unable to see any answer to this question and hoped to be directed to one. 

It appears from GearBest website, that if you upgrade the programming on the charger, even with their supplied update, the warranty is void.
So there is a strong reason to never do that.

The customer voids the warranty if they:
- Flash the firmware of a device or root a device

Thank you.


----------



## kreisl

Ravel said:


> Maybe in the mc3k there could be an option to start the next step of all the cycles
> only when all the active slots have achieved their resting time ?
> I suppose the idea is intended with the same program running on 2 to 4 slots (similar batteries).
> In that case the resting time programmed in all the slots is in fact a minimum,
> some batteries may be experiemcing longer durations, but one may not care.
> 
> The other possible implementation, whichever slot reaches first its spent resting time,
> would command going to the next step (next cycle) for ALL slots.
> 
> Do I make sense ?
> Regards


Thanks for the _vague _suggestion but imho it is not viable or not acceptable in the end for 3 reasons: it is complicated, the implications are complex, and even if i kinda understood it at the date of posting (2017-02-11), i've forgotten how it should work how it functions by today (2017-02-14) and i would need to think hard again to make sense out of all of it; an option in SPV (which _concrete _option with parameters?) for such a _control_-related function would clutter up SPV which is to comprise rather _algorithm_-related functions, it simple would not fit in between; last but not least we can dismiss it because you can ask squirrel doesn't dig it 






On the other hand, i do like in general the idea of the user _control _function 'Pause' in form of a key press. It would empower the user to take _own _control over the pausing not let the machine take over _automatic _control after some implemented scheme which not everybody agrees with or needs or wants. 

@everyone, assuming that the implementation is doable and the implementation result great as intended, would you welcome a 'Pause'-button, do we need or want this? If yes, how about the <STOP>-key, a short-press ("click") on <STOP> in DDV/SOV? (As you remember from the Cheat Sheet, a long-press ("press-and-hold") on <STOP> in DDV/SOV results in 'Finishing' the slot program prematurely.)
So if someone accidentally clicks the key in DDV or SOV, nothing bad will happen, no slot will be finished/stopped/reset/etc; he can then press the 'Unpause' key and all paused slots will continue. For the 'Unpause All'-key we could probably use the <ENTER>-key and only in TOV. (Pressing <ENTER> in DDV/SOV means 'Return to TOV', as you remember.)

So. This is my own concrete idea of implementing a <PAUSE>-button, and in a vote (What's the vote question? Lol) i would vote Yes for it 

Actually this is now an offer. If you don't need or want manual pausing and or don't like my idea of its implementation, then please say so. If you don't say anything for example because you don't mind or care, then i'll count it as a Yes (Lol again).

haha

ha.


----------



## buss78

Hi @All,


In the last weeks I read very much about the different Chargers an I decided to buy the MC3000 (FW.1.13).
I have one Question and i hope to be right here to get some help.

At Home i have some old NiMh/NiCd Accus (no LSD) and i want to check, refresh and reform them.
To save some time, i decided to use the mode "Cycle" with a C.Current of [email protected],2C instead of the recommended [email protected],1C.

These are my settings:

Mode=Cycle
CycleWay=D>C
CycleCount=3
C.Current=0,2C
D.Current=0,2C
EndChargeVolt:1,65V
EndDischargeVolt=0,9V
ChargeRestTime=20 Minutes
DischargeRestTime=10 Minutes

The Problem is, that the -deltaU Termination does not work correctly with a C.Current below 0,3C......
To match the Termination of the charge process at 1,6C, i have to set the CAPACITY to 1,6C or the TimeProtection to 8 hours.
When i use one of these two settings, the whole Cycle Program terminates when one of these values matches (there is no second Cycle).

What should i do, that the Charger can match my Requirements?
Sorry for my English, but i hope you can understand my Feature Request.


Regards 
Christian


----------



## Ravel

buss78 said:


> Hi @All,
> 
> 
> In the last weeks I read very much about the different Chargers an I decided to buy the MC3000 (FW.1.13).
> I have one Question and i hope to be right here to get some help.
> 
> At Home i have some old NiMh/NiCd Accus (no LSD) and i want to check, refresh and reform them.
> To save some time, i decided to use the mode "Cycle" with a C.Current of [email protected],2C instead of the recommended [email protected],1C.
> 
> These are my settings:
> 
> Mode=Cycle
> CycleWay=D>C
> CycleCount=3
> C.Current=0,2C
> D.Current=0,2C
> EndChargeVolt:1,65V
> EndDischargeVolt=0,9V
> ChargeRestTime=20 Minutes
> DischargeRestTime=10 Minutes
> 
> The Problem is, that the -deltaU Termination does not work correctly with a C.Current below 0,3C......
> To match the Termination of the charge process at 1,6C, i have to set the CAPACITY to 1,6C or the TimeProtection to 8 hours.
> When i use one of these two settings, the whole Cycle Program terminates when one of these values matches (there is no second Cycle).
> 
> What should i do, that the Charger can match my Requirements?
> Sorry for my English, but i hope you can understand my Feature Request.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Christian



Please sera first page of this thread, link to Idea oncapacitynext


----------



## Ravel

buss78 said:


> Hi @All,
> At Home i have some old NiMh/NiCd Accus (no LSD) and i want to check, refresh and reform them.
> To save some time, i decided to use the mode "Cycle" with a C.Current of [email protected],2C instead of the recommended [email protected],1C.
> 
> Christian



See Re: Crystal removal in old NiMH batteries http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?336590-Crystal-removal-in-old-NiMH-batteries

IMHO, it seems that for *OLD *you will either revive them after 1 to 3 cycles,
I mean back to prestine state, that is lucky to have performance > 80% than their initial capacity,
and the baterry would charge and stop normally on dV criterion alone.

OR, you will revive them (1 to 3 cycles also), to the so-called CRAP state, see in the forum,
but many cycles will not lead to lots (or any much) improvement.
Batteries will be functionnal though with capacity <80% and sometimes/often the only way to charge them
without overcharging is to work on a capacity cut criterion.

I have as example a set of 4 AA NiMH 2300 mAh
They work reliably on a charge of 1400 mAh (any more and this gets lost while charging and would probably damage further the AA)

Try to discharge your lot and charge them to half capacity, and give us the internal resistance of those baterries
(+ all details of wahth they are, brands, capacity, model), and even better an internal resistance of a not so old 
comparable batterie. One may tell you if they are near busted.

You want to save time : maybe not always feasible (cycles implementation seems ok only for good baterries)
See also my previous post

Also not even sure you are goinf the right way by ''reforming by going 1,6 C''
Cycling full - empty - full may be enough, see the link at the top of this post


----------



## hahoo

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

ok, so i bit the bullet and got one of these today
so far not too bad figuring it out
your not going to do it in 1 night, thats for sure!
only let down was the 1 amp max discharge , with 4 18650s
i was thinking it was 2 amp
oh well
the 3 amp charge for 4, 18650s is what sold me on it mostly
ive got a pile of 3500mah, SANYO NCR18650GA batteries to run thru this thing
what would you guys consider a safe charge rate on these?
can i max it out at 3amp per channel and be ok, doing 4 of them at a time ?
also, what should i set my low volts for when discharging, around 3 volts or so?


----------



## ninjasmoke

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



hahoo said:


> ok, so i bit the bullet and got one of these today
> so far not too bad figuring it out
> your not going to do it in 1 night, thats for sure!
> only let down was the 1 amp max discharge , with 4 18650s
> i was thinking it was 2 amp
> oh well
> the 3 amp charge for 4, 18650s is what sold me on it mostly
> ive got a pile of 3500mah, SANYO NCR18650GA batteries to run thru this thing
> what would you guys consider a safe charge rate on these?
> can i max it out at 3amp per channel and be ok, doing 4 of them at a time ?
> also, what should i set my low volts for when discharging, around 3 volts or so?



I would recommend that you go to this website and find out all of the data on your battery first and it will give you all the information you asked for.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



hahoo said:


> ok, so i bit the bullet and got one of these today
> so far not too bad figuring it out
> your not going to do it in 1 night, thats for sure!
> only let down was the 1 amp max discharge , with 4 18650s
> i was thinking it was 2 amp
> oh well
> the 3 amp charge for 4, 18650s is what sold me on it mostly
> ive got a pile of 3500mah, SANYO NCR18650GA batteries to run thru this thing
> what would you guys consider a safe charge rate on these?
> can i max it out at 3amp per channel and be ok, doing 4 of them at a time ?
> also, what should i set my low volts for when discharging, around 3 volts or so?



4 18650 is 1 amp max discharge, 1 18650 is 2 amp max discharge
it is ok (for the device) to max it out at 3amp per channel, doing 4 of them at a time
i would not charge ncrga with 3 amp or r u in such a hurry tonight
why do you want to discharge? to determine max capacity you can set your low volts to 2.50V
3 volts is too conservative, flashlights also discharge below 3.00V
can i use my smartphone as screen for raspi 3B through bluetooth 4.1 (BLE) or does it have to be wlan?


----------



## doctordun

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Placed my order with GearBest two days ago. Not a moment too soon. Website shows out of stock now.

Any experience on how long the order might take before I get it here in Texas?


----------



## hahoo

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

just got this last night , trying to get the software to run to no avail...
the pc monitor from skyrc does nothing when i try to run it
says fw version 1.10 on my machine, do i need to update it to make the software run?

tx for the help


----------



## Kuhl0040

Hi,

I just bought the MC3000 from gearbest.com and am getting an Unhandled exception error when using your PC link software. I have tried the soft reset but the that does not work. Any thoughts?

*See the end of this message for details on invoking *
*just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.*

*************** Exception Text ***************
*System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.*
* at usb_loader_host.FormLoader.timer3_Tick(Object sender, EventArgs e)*
* at System.Windows.Forms.Timer.OnTick(EventArgs e)*
* at System.Windows.Forms.Timer.TimerNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)*
* at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)*


*************** Loaded Assemblies ***************
*mscorlib*
* Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0*
* Win32 Version: 4.6.1586.0 built by: NETFXREL2*
* CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll*
*----------------------------------------*
*MC3000_Monitor*
* Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0*
* Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0*
* CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/tyler/Desktop/MC3000_Monitor.exe*
*----------------------------------------*
*System.Windows.Forms*
* Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0*
* Win32 Version: 4.6.1586.0 built by: NETFXREL2*
* CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll*
*----------------------------------------*
*System*
* Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0*
* Win32 Version: 4.6.1586.0 built by: NETFXREL2*
* CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll*
*----------------------------------------*
*System.Drawing*
* Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0*
* Win32 Version: 4.6.1586.0 built by: NETFXREL2*
* CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll*
*----------------------------------------*
*System.Configuration*
* Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0*
* Win32 Version: 4.6.1586.0 built by: NETFXREL2*
* CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll*
*----------------------------------------*
*System.Core*
* Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0*
* Win32 Version: 4.6.1586.0 built by: NETFXREL2*
* CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll*
*----------------------------------------*
*System.Xml*
* Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0*
* Win32 Version: 4.6.1586.0 built by: NETFXREL2*
* CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll*
*----------------------------------------*

*************** JIT Debugging ***************
*To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this*
*application or computer (machine.config) must have the*
*jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.*
*The application must also be compiled with debugging*
*enabled.*

*For example:*

*<configuration>*
* <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />*
*</configuration>*

*When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception*
*will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer*
*rather than be handled by this dialog box.*




Thanks, Tyler


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



doctordun said:


> Placed my order with GearBest two days ago. Not a moment too soon. Website shows out of stock now.


Gearbest webpage shows in stock for me :thumbsup:
As a shopper from the States i would buy the charger from a US dealer, the prices are competitive.


hahoo said:


> just got this last night , trying to get the software to run to no avail...
> the pc monitor from skyrc does nothing when i try to run it
> says fw version 1.10 on my machine, do i need to update it to make the software run?


No, you don't need to update your machine to make the software run.
In fact, if the software doesn't run, then it means there is no established data line between charger and computer, and in such a case it would be dangerous to try to update the machine. That's why the instructions for the update include this procedure.


Kuhl0040 said:


> I just bought the MC3000 from gearbest.com and am getting an Unhandled exception error when using your PC link software. I have tried the soft reset but the that does not work. Any thoughts?


Fyi no external driver needs to be installed, once you connect the charger with the Windows PC (e.g. WinXP SP3 or Win7 with .NET Framework 4.0) the necessary driver is installed internally/automatically and it is recognized as USB-HID in the device manager.
Also see section Error Message in the printed instruction manual. 


buss78 said:


> The Problem is, that the -deltaU Termination does not work correctly with a C.Current below 0,3C......
> To match the Termination of the charge process at 1,6C, i have to set the CAPACITY to 1,6C or the TimeProtection to 8 hours.
> When i use one of these two settings, the whole Cycle Program terminates when one of these values matches (there is no second Cycle).


You can try to set DELTA PEAK to 0dV and test this setting with one of your NiMH batteries at 0.2C. But seriously, even Maha recommends charging at no lower than 0.3C, although the MH-C9000 uses voltage termination: when you feed an ever so small current to a NiMH battery, the battery will eventually get fully charged but its peak voltage level will be lower than at a higher rate, also due to the Batt IR. This phenomenon is different from LiIon charging where the peak voltage level is always around 4.2V no matter how fast or slow you charge, given the same 50mA TERMINATION current.
Your feature suggestion has been discussed before and it may stay on de list. Afaik there are currently no plans to implement something like OnCapacityNext. _And _what about OnCutTimeNext and OnCutTempNext and all the other possible Error Messages intended for abnormal program termination inherited from hobby chargers all of which terminate programs at the CUT condition? Btw there are charge capacities and there are discharge capacities. _So _you want OnChargeCapacityNext or OnDischargeCapacityNext, or do you want both separately, or do you want OnEitherCapacityNext? This makes it 4 clear choices and whatever you choose, the choice can't satisfy/please/be liked etc etc 
Hmm, _i _see my two points 

You could also send your feature suggestion directly to sky, they might reply with a :shrug:-smiley though gg


----------



## cpa

Hello...

I'm thinking to buying a MC3000, but I have a question.
There is a settings database or webpage/app for battery brand and model??

I mean, I have a Panasonic 18650B 3400mA and I would like to know the "best" typical settings for it, or I have an Amazon Basic AA NiH 2400mA and I want to know what is the typical settings for it....

A place of database where the users can share his configurations....

Thanks in advance, and sorry if this has been treated before (I've read until 130 page)...:sigh:


----------



## Kuhl0040

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



> Fyi no external driver needs to be installed, once you connect the charger with the Windows PC (e.g. WinXP SP3 or Win7 with .NET Framework 4.0) the necessary driver is installed internally/automatically and it is recognized as USB-HID in the device manager.



Yeah it worked one time where it connected to the PC Link software, but now I cannot get it to connect again and it just gives the same error. I am able to get it to sporadically connect to DataExplorer but not reliably. Is it possible to do a hard reset? I am at a loss at how to get it working, I have tried shutting down, restarting, but still can't get it to connect. Is there a certain order I need to plug things in? 

Thanks!


----------



## cpa

cpa said:


> A place of database where the users can share his configurations....



I meant "A place or database", it was a typo...

Also it would be useful that the app (DEX and PCLS) would have this functionality and you could choose the battery brand and type and automatically transfer the settings to the MC3000.

What do you think about that??...


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> I meant "A place or database", it was a typo...
> 
> Also it would be useful that the app (DEX and PCLS) would have this functionality and you could choose the battery brand and type and automatically transfer the settings to the MC3000.


DEX produces 1 XML file with up to 30 program entries in coded format. It would be possible (and possibly some fun) to cut/paste the coded programs from XML file to forum post and vice versa. Still, that's work, working with databases, editing XML files, operating DEX, etc. And since many settings are optional, one cannot even recommend 1 set of settings over a different set. You can charge NCR-B with 50mA termination current or with 100mA, neither does harm to de battery. The settings are really up to the user's personal preference, so imho it makes little sense to create and share 1 public database because no matter which set of settings you propose, i could argue for a different set, just to make a point.

It makes sense though that everybody creates his own database with no more than 30 entries. DEX already does that with the 1 XML file. I call it 'Backup & Restore'.


----------



## kreisl

hahoo said:


> had a day or so to mess with it, and noticed that the 4th channel, slot, always runs several degrees cooler than the rest ?
> any ideas on this, or any others that have this unit do the same?
> maybe thats the slot closest to the fan?


amazing graph, thanks for sharing!
Does it say 96° Celsius for the battery? Must be a typo in the DEX graph, you could check the settings in DEX and in GSV, never mind.
Did you read the full manual? You can search for the term <temperature> in the PDF and read everything what the manual has to say about temperature and sensors. Imho the text is beautifully written and clear as Chinglish can be no offence 

Btw there is some chance that your 4th slot sensor does not touch the metal stripe in the slot due to manufacturing tolerances. Even though the battery is warm, the sensor would then not register the battery heat properly because it is a millimeter too far away from battery. On my unit, i put extra thermal paste on the slot sensors to 100% bridge the distance between sensor and metal stripe. Lemme do a test with 4x Eneloop AA too and let's compare my DEX graph then, my pleasure.

Don't worry if your 4th slot sensor was soldered a millimeter too short and or not enough thermal paste was applied on it. But that should be the reason, not the relative location to the fan.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Kuhl0040 said:


> Yeah it worked one time where it connected to the PC Link software, but now I cannot get it to connect again and it just gives the same error. I am able to get it to sporadically connect to DataExplorer but not reliably. Is it possible to do a hard reset? I am at a loss at how to get it working, I have tried shutting down, restarting, but still can't get it to connect. Is there a certain order I need to plug things in?


Since your system experiences connection problems, you cannot reinstall the FW1.13 (which could be called "hard reset" in a specific sense but it is NOT a genuine hard reset in the original sense!), because if during the reinstallation you lose the connection, your device will be bricked. Do NOT touch a running system!

You should try to connect the charger to a different PC, preferably a PC with freshly installed WinXP SP3 or Win7 SP1. And most importantly, try another USB data cable. I have about 10 USB cables squirrelling around in my home and guess what, only 3 cables are usable for the MC3000<->PC connection.

Order in which i connect things:
1) PC is running. All Bluetooth connections are OFF. Bluetooth and DEX (or PCLS) cannot run at the same time 
2) charger is powered up
3) i connect PREMIUM USB *DATA *CABLE (DO NOT USE A USB CHARGE CABLE!!!) first to charger
4) then to PC
5) then i launch DEX (or PCLS)


----------



## samgab

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

My channel 4 always runs about 2 degrees C lower than the other channels, but it tracks parallel. Doesn't bother me, it's not a lab grade instrument and I can account for the -2 deg C delta on ch4.


----------



## scoutfai

Can anyone able to confirm whether the current SkyRC MC3000 EU Plug charger carried by Gearbest is the latest, revised version (where all the weaknesses of early production have been fixed)?

Thinking of getting one from Gearbest, although I wish to have a UK plug instead (I am from Malaysia), but EU Plug (closest to UK Plug that Gearbest carries) will do the job too.

The Gearbest link is here:

http://www.gearbest.com/chargers/pp_260893.html


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

test done, we can see the influence of system temperature on the "battery temperature"


----------



## hahoo

kreisl said:


> amazing graph, thanks for sharing!
> Does it say 96° Celsius for the battery? Must be a typo in the DEX graph, you could check the settings in DEX and in GSV, never mind.
> Did you read the full manual? You can search for the term <temperature> in the PDF and read everything what the manual has to say about temperature and sensors. Imho the text is beautifully written and clear as Chinglish can be no offence
> 
> Btw there is some chance that your 4th slot sensor does not touch the metal stripe in the slot due to manufacturing tolerances. Even though the battery is warm, the sensor would then not register the battery heat properly because it is a millimeter too far away from battery. On my unit, i put extra thermal paste on the slot sensors to 100% bridge the distance between sensor and metal stripe. Lemme do a test with 4x Eneloop AA too and let's compare my DEX graph then, my pleasure.
> 
> Don't worry if your 4th slot sensor was soldered a millimeter too short and or not enough thermal paste was applied on it. But that should be the reason, not the relative location to the fan.



thanks for the reply sir...and yes it is in fact deg f , not deg c...

i have a very accurate fluke ir temp gun, that i have shot the batteries with, and the mc3000 is with in 1 deg-f or so, just about always:thumbsup:

is there a way to change that or not ?
if not, i can live with a C, instead of a F no problem 

only big gripe with this beast, is it hard to get panasonic flat tops to make contact when charging
they need to make the top contacts protrude just the slightest tad more
its a pain having to suspend a big 18650 in the air to charge it


----------



## kreisl

Some NiZn consumers have reported that FW1.13 does not terminate the NiZn charging ever.
I have an old 4-pack of BPI NiZn AA's, cycled less than 10 times, and when i had tested the NiZn charging back then with older firmware versions, there was no issue. 

Now i retested my now old NiZn's with the FW1.13 and indeed the charging doesn't seem to stop and the amperage graph does not look like as it should. The observation is that the current falls off too steep during the 1.90V CV-phase and then recovers to a steady-state level eventually, around 400mA in my example while the voltage remains steady at 1.90V. Definitely weird or unexpected, and maybe it is due to the age of my batteries or due to the firmware version, how could we know?

Then again i can't remember which firmware version i had tested my NiZn's back then with lol.
Maybe some of you have new NiZn's and old firmware and can test if the charging works as expected without issues?
In the meantime i am going to list this potential firmware bug in de list under k#88 np thanks for your attention.


----------



## kreisl

hahoo said:


> they need to make the top contacts protrude just the slightest tad more


good point and forwarded thanks!

:thumbsup:


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> Some NiZn consumers have reported that FW1.13 does not terminate the NiZn charging ever.
> I have an old 4-pack of BPI NiZn AA's, cycled less than 10 times, and when i had tested the NiZn charging back then with older firmware versions, there was no issue.
> 
> Now i retested my now old NiZn's with the FW1.13 and indeed the charging doesn't seem to stop and the amperage graph does not look like as it should. The observation is that the current falls off too steep during the 1.90V CV-phase and then recovers to a steady-state level eventually, around 400mA in my example while the voltage remains steady at 1.90V. Definitely weird or unexpected, and maybe it is due to the age of my batteries or due to the firmware version, how could we know?
> 
> Then again i can't remember which firmware version i had tested my NiZn's back then with lol.
> Maybe some of you have new NiZn's and old firmware and can test if the charging works as expected without issues?
> In the meantime i am going to list this potential firmware bug in de list under k#88 np thanks for your attention.



You could downgrade your firm and test the same NiZn AA's and see what happend, couldn't you??


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> You could downgrade your firm and test the same NiZn AA's and see what happend, couldn't you??



sure when i get to it :sweat:

EDIT: FW1.11 NiZn charging looks soso, interesting. Looks better but the observations could be related to the old battery condition. I must have tested my NiZn about 12 months ago, i got mine from GB. i have FW1.04c from Feb 2016 and will check that too.


----------



## Shaysrebellion

Its really disappointing that the link software only works on Bill Gates spy on everyone Winblowz. If you wanted to do folks a giant favor create software for Mac and Linux. 

Winblowz is a giant virus infested, malware infested, trojan infested magnet. I moved to Linux years back and couldnt be happier. No crashes, no infections and its ---> FREE! Linux mint with cinnamon is the way to go.

Please consider a new thread as this one is too long to read.
Please consider a Linux Mac version of the software.


----------



## cpa

There is already an alternative software that runs under Linux and Mac. Just read this thread a little bit and you'll get all the information.
I have not got the charger yet, but I already knows it...

Mac OS & IOS are spyware infected as well BTW...


----------



## Ravel

Search for linux in the thread or for DEX or dataexplorer


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> EDIT: FW1.11 NiZn charging looks soso, interesting. Looks better but the observations could be related to the old battery condition. I must have tested my NiZn about 12 months ago, i got mine from GB. i have FW1.04c from Feb 2016 and will check that too.


lol Fake News (not by me!) about the alleged charging problem with NiZn batteries. all firmware versions behave the same correctly. the problem was the condition of the batteries, their chemistry was dormant. after cycling the batteries 5 times the charging is now proceeding as perfectly as expected and also terminates as it should.

clearly, there is no problem with the NiZn charging algorithm or termination in the firmware. :ironic:

I am glad that i was able to demystify the 'issue' 

so if you guys work with NiZn, watch out for dormant specimen and cycle them 5 times (or more), for example with -0.50A/0.50A, and check how their condition improves as can be read from the charger's behavior, the graphs in pcls or dex. EDIT3: and charge with an appropriate charging rate, not too high; the lower the better for every party involved. basically i am saying that NiZn batteries *uck :devil:, lol.

this is my official all-clear. and i am deleting the k# from de list (EDIT1: done. moving on, bye). thanks for your attention.

EDIT2: squirrels are awesome :twothumbs


----------



## AA Cycler

I knew it will come, I just did not know when. And it happened today. It has snapped. The spring in my charger has snapped, probably the pin holding the spring broke. Yes, the charger in question is from the early batch that was known for this issue. But you don't worry, your recently bought unit has reinforced pins and won't brake, so don't panic. 

The sad thing is I've got 5 units and the first 4 ones are the early ones. :-( I fear there will be more snaps coming... Well, what can I do...

Here is my AA Cycler's Cycling Brigade - notice charger 3 channel 1 - it's gone!






I was hoping I will avoid this issue as I charge only AA (14500) cells and the snaps were usually reported by people charging longer cells - 18650. But no... Anyway, I've got my units from akkuteile.de, I am going to ask them if they sell the top plastic cover so I can replace it...

Note: the first 4 chargers were bought during March-May 2016 and are running since 24/7 nonstop. The spring broke after 10 month in use...


----------



## bella-headlight

Shouldn"t there be a 12 month minimum warranty on these as they were bought from the EU ?


----------



## AA Cycler

bella-headlight said:


> Shouldn"t there be a 12 month minimum warranty on these as they were bought from the EU ?



Yes, there should be 1 year warranty, but I have already voided it by opening and modding my units. The fans in my MC3000s brow most of the time and when they get too noisy (every 3 months or so) I open the cover and lubricate the fans. I have also cut off the grill beneath the fans to ensure better air flow... I am not going to try to warranty them, I will just try to get new cases if they are still available somewhere... EDIT: GB are still selling them...


----------



## Mp0w3r

Does anyone know if they fixed the problem with flat top batteries not making contact?

I read that some are using magnets to get contact.


----------



## tjh

Mp0w3r said:


> Does anyone know if they fixed the problem with flat top batteries not making contact?
> 
> I read that some are using magnets to get contact.


You just have to move them around until they make contact. This will mean they don't make contact with the temperature strip. Not a big deal IMHO.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

AA Cycler said:


> I knew it will come, I just did not know when. And it happened today. It has snapped. The spring in my charger has snapped, probably the pin holding the spring broke. Yes, the charger in question is from the early batch that was known for this issue. But you don't worry, your recently bought unit has reinforced pins and won't brake, so don't panic.
> 
> The sad thing is I've got 5 units and the first 4 ones are the early ones. :-( I fear there will be more snaps coming... Well, what can I do...
> 
> Here is my AA Cycler's Cycling Brigade - notice charger 3 channel 1 - it's gone!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping I will avoid this issue as I charge only AA (14500) cells and the snaps were usually reported by people charging longer cells - 18650. But no... Anyway, I've got my units from akkuteile.de, I am going to ask them if they sell the top plastic cover so I can replace it...
> 
> Note: the first 4 chargers were bought during March-May 2016 and are running since 24/7 nonstop. The spring broke after 10 month in use...



I have one of the earlier units as well. I had one pin break a few months back and another break within the past month. I just used screws (spare screws from RC cars - not even sure of size) that would thread into the silicon board a bit and it's worked fine. I did make sure there are no metal contact points on either side of the circuit board so I'm not too concerned about having replaced the plastic pin with metal - and I'm pretty assured it won't break again.


----------



## kreisl

here is an interesting:huh: fix suggested by an early adopter from Italy using part of a wrapped cable tie as plastic pin replacement :





_( photo cudos to the original photographer )_​


----------



## cpa

Very good/smart/clever solution... :twothumbs


----------



## maukka

That's very clever. I'd been using my older MC3000 with snapped posts with some random pieces of fill to achieve contact. Took it apart and put some cable ties in there, but must've shorted something out while putting it back together since now I get the following error from the ADC (MCP3424-1 Err). Tried reassembling it and checking that everything's ok, but the charger doesn't seem to recover from it. At least I have a spare...


----------



## kreisl

maukka said:


> but must've shorted something out while putting it back together since now I get the following error from the ADC (MCP3424-1 Err).


hi maukka, sorry to hear about the failed reassembly.
This error is not listed in the manual and afaik there is nothing a common user could do to reset it with a simple procedure or so. If you contact sky they'll probably ask you to send it in for component replacement or something, a repair that would cost something 

I have a spare too


----------



## cpa

Anyone knows what differences has the Uk plug version, US plug version & EU plug version??
I mean, I guess the power adaptor is the same and only change the power cord, doesn't it??

I'm asking this because the price for the UK, US & AU versions are the same, but the EU version is different, and I don't know why???
Maybe it would be a typical Gearbest mistake (you can find the same product with different price on their own web)...

What do you think???


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> lol Fake News (not by me!) about the alleged charging problem with NiZn batteries. all firmware versions behave the same correctly. the problem was the condition of the batteries, their chemistry was dormant. after cycling the batteries 5 times the charging is now proceeding as perfectly as expected and also terminates as it should.
> 
> clearly, there is no problem with the NiZn charging algorithm or termination in the firmware. :ironic:
> 
> I am glad that i was able to demystify the 'issue'
> 
> so if you guys work with NiZn, watch out for dormant specimen and cycle them 5 times (or more), for example with -0.50A/0.50A, and check how their condition improves as can be read from the charger's behavior, the graphs in pcls or dex. EDIT3: and charge with an appropriate charging rate, not too high; the lower the better for every party involved. basically i am saying that NiZn batteries *uck :devil:, lol.
> 
> this is my official all-clear. and i am deleting the k# from de list (EDIT1: done. moving on, bye). thanks for your attention.
> 
> EDIT2: squirrels are awesome :twothumbs


So the problem was just cells being unable to reach the measured (*not* displayed or actual) target voltage of 1.9 V? If yes, I have observed it with at least one cell way back when I got the charger, which was (notably) still uncalibrated at that point and mentioned it here. My solution, as described in this very thread, was just lowering the target voltage to the level at which the supposedly problematic cell would behave the same way as the rest of them. I assume it would work for your cells, too, would it not?

After I calibrated the charger, my NiZn cells much more predictable when charging to 1.9 V and the capacity readings started making a lot more sense...


----------



## Eliobell

Hello everyone, I am a new member to the forum and I write from Italy.
Sorry for my poor English!

From about 30 days I am a possessor of a Sky Rc MC3000 and I am very well.
I use it to charge AA and AAA batteries and 18650.

I always suspected that the DV mode to end the charging of NIMH
tends to put stress on the batteries and I made some programs to end
the charge with the cut-volt mode, set to 1,54V.

Mostly I use AA and AAA Panasonic eneloop 2500 and 930 mah and
Programs are as follows =

AA = Disch. 400mah; 0,90 term; D.reduce 0.05; rest 3 '; 800mah Charge; Cut V. 1.54, 0.01 trickle to end.
AAA = Disch. 200mAh; 0,90 term; D.reduce 0.04; Rest 2 '; 300mah Charge; Cut V. 1.54, 0.01 trickle to end.

I use current at low amperage to avoid warming the batteries because I think the heat
It is one of the causes that deteriorate.
So far I am very well with these programs, but frankly I do not know exactly if this procedure is fine
for my batteries. 
Is there any expert who can tell me if there is anything wrong with that?


----------



## sbj

Were your batteries hot when you charged them with -ΔV detection? 
Did you notice a difference in the discharge capacity between these two charging methods?


----------



## cpa

cpa said:


> Anyone knows what differences has the Uk plug version, US plug version & EU plug version??
> I mean, I guess the power adaptor is the same and only change the power cord, doesn't it??



Ok... I've got reply from SkyRC... Here you have, if you are interesting in this question as well


SkyRC said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thanks for your support to SkyRC!
> Yes, the power adaptor for MC3000 is the same but with different cable for different region.
> 
> 
> Thank you
> Best Regards
> Phoebe Sun



Regards!


----------



## kreisl

B-2Admirer said:


> So the problem was just cells being unable


The problem was the high internal resistance of my small aged nizn batteries 130mO. At such a high resistance and high charging rates say 0.75A and higher, the voltage of discharged AA's would reach 1.90V within tens of seconds and then the algorithm would need to counteract the fast rising voltage with a steep amperage drop at the beginning of the CV-phase, then the current could be raised again to keep the voltage stable and eventually everything would calm down and settle and slip into a nicely decreasing current graph as expected. Depending on the parameters of your system such behavior is in fact predictable and could be modeled through process dynamics and control theory. With nizn batt ir there seems to be a critical dimensionless system variable composed of batt ir batt chemistry and charging current and other quantities which separates the normal CC-CV behavior from the aforementioned control theory response behavior. One doesn't need to go into theory or modeling or dimensional analysis lol, it'd be sufficient for all intents and purposes to conduct a series of systematic experiments to narrow down the boundaries of dimensionless number. Someone might find this observation interesting because we never observed such a control response with liion batteries no matter their batt ir and high charging rate. I am not sure if you guys really know what the term modeling in this kind of engineering simply means. Modeling in engineering means in the end practically nothing but setting up a mathematical model which in turn means nothing but setting up a concise system of partial differential equations which are capable of describing the entire system's behavior in the past, present and future, typically in a clear elegant way. In RL there is no explicit solution in equation form but when you feed the system to raspbian mathematica the numeric solver would at least suggest one solution in graphical form pretty amazing. It's a welcome exercise for sophomores but we can safely skip to the take-home message: nizn, when old or unconditioned, should be charged with a low charge rate, then the charging will go as expected. unless proven otherwise by an academic journal paper lol.

Sorry for the speech but sometimes i enjoy hearing myself talking lol


----------



## Eliobell

sbj said:


> Were your batteries hot when you charged them with -ΔV detection?
> Did you notice a difference in the discharge capacity between these two charging methods?



The capacity obtained with Delta V terminator and with cut V. 1.54 is pretty much the same:
for filled cells the average are = AA disch. 2520 mah, carghe 2580mah; AAA discharge 940, charge 980, but the method
delta peak, in the 2 or 3 minutes before the end of charging the batteries become a bit hot and for
this the DV method does not convince me. With volt cut there's not overheating.


----------



## B-2Admirer

kreisl said:


> Sorry for the speech but sometimes i enjoy hearing myself talking lol


Well, for that you would have to read your post(s) aloud, wouldn't you? :wave:

Anyway, 0.75A (more than 0.5C for AA NiZn cells) is way beyond the standard NiZn charge rate of 0.2C and while they do support fast charge at up to 1C according to the documentation, the effect of the higher charge rate on their longevity has not been independently studied, so I would never go above the standard charge rate except in real need. My NiZn AAA cells are doing well, by the way, though I don't use them heavily and always store charged.


----------



## sbj

Eliobell said:


> The capacity obtained with Delta V terminator and with cut V. 1.54 is pretty much the same:...


 Equal capacitance, or equal charge voltage at the moment of charge disconnection by the Deltapeak detection. This would be also my recommendation for the correct charging voltage with the same charge current for the cut-volt method. Apparently, you've hit that value exactly when the capacity is nearly equal and the heating is lower. - That's perfect! :twothumbs

See also the table of HKJ: http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html

Only what surprised me is, that your batteries with the Delta Peak method with 0.3C charging current and 3mV? Delta Peak get hot! They should only be hand warm when charging. This are a standard recommendation. Then I would not have any concerns about their durability.

I'm also amazed by the extraordinary charge efficiency you have determined. This is the best confirmation for a gentle loading. 

Thus this method of loading would be an interesting test task for AA Cycler: http://aacycler.com/about/how/

In practice - The main questions with the cut-volt method are:
Does the charging voltage have to be set differently at different ambient temperatures?
Is the setting also correct for old batteries or batteries of other manufacturers? 
How much longer is the charging time, through the top off charge?
Is the extra effort worth at all, if one can assume, that most batteries are broken by normal aging rather than by cycles?

You may find some information on this in the Maha 9000 thread.

This is an interesting topic, which you will surely keep us informed about. You have the right charger for this.


----------



## Eliobell

In practice - The main questions with the cut-volt method are:
Does the charging voltage have to be set differently at different ambient temperatures?
Is the setting also correct for old batteries or batteries of other manufacturers? 
How much longer is the charging time, through the top off charge?
Is the extra effort worth at all, if one can assume, that most batteries are broken by normal aging rather than by cycles?

You may find some information on this in the Maha 9000 thread.

This is an interesting topic, which you will surely keep us informed about. You have the right charger for this. [/QUOTE]

Thank you for the reply.
Yours are all good questions!
I got cut to 1.54 volts for eneloop after tests in 1.49 1.50 1.51 1.51 1.53 1.54 and 1.55,
and after seeing the various tests that the peak delta always intervenes between 1.54 and 1.55 V. At this point I
asked myself: "Why stress the batteries for those minutes in charge to 1.54 / 1.55 to trip the Delta Peak, when
now the maximum load has been reached? " I think for the good of batteries, when they reach 1,54v is right to stop immediately
the charge.


----------



## usrnam

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

I purchased a MC3000 some time ago. It was used to charge a few 18650 batteries. Until recently I hadn't had the time to explore various functions and features.

I recently purchased new Lithium AAA, AA and 18650's. 

Before charging and testing i would like to upgrade the firmware. I'm currently at firmware version 1.11. At first glance it appears all that needs to be done is connect USB to MC3000 and run the firmware update exe file, then wait for the firmware update to finish?

Any reason to upgrade to version 1.12 before version 1.13?


----------



## tjh

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



usrnam said:


> I purchased a MC3000 some time ago. It was used to charge a few 18650 batteries. Until recently I hadn't had the time to explore various functions and features.
> 
> I recently purchased new Lithium AAA, AA and 18650's.
> 
> Before charging and testing i would like to upgrade the firmware. I'm currently at firmware version 1.11. At first glance it appears all that needs to be done is connect USB to MC3000 and run the firmware update exe file, then wait for the firmware update to finish?
> 
> Any reason to upgrade to version 1.12 before version 1.13?


No. Just upgrade to 1.13.


----------



## usrnam

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Ok thanks, Ill go ahead and install the 1.13 version update
____

While searching for Lithium batteries I found a good deal on some brand new (8 x) Panasonic NCR18650B's. Previously I'd been salvaging 18650s from new and used laptop battery packs. I'm uncertain if the Panasonic's are protected or not. I believe at least some are temperature protected when leaving the factory. Other protection(s) may be added by vendors after leaving the factory.

I also came across some of the less expensive (not sure where made, most likely China) 18650 3.7V batteries that boast a 5000 mAh capacity. From what i've read many of these after testing actual capacity is somewhere under 500 mAh.

___

After a full charge tried a discharge at 1/2 amp, results is the mAh capacity = 520. I assumed these would be a low capacity but wasn't certain how low.

__

Wondering if there's any foreseeable future update for the MC3000 monitor software to resize the menu screens? After trying various video resolution came to the conclusion the monitor software becomes useless when used under Vista x64 driving a 32" Nec LCD monitor. Won't display correctly in any of the available resolutions.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



usrnam said:


> At first glance it appears all that needs to be done is connect USB to MC3000 and run the firmware update exe file


basically that's how it goes yes, that's how i do it on my system (OS, cable, charger).

the detailed instructions are in the readme.txt good luck


----------



## Ravel

Eliobell said:


> The capacity obtained with Delta V terminator and with cut V. 1.54 is pretty much the same:
> for filled cells the average are = AA disch. 2520 mah, carghe 2580mah; AAA discharge 940, charge 980, but the method
> delta peak, in the 2 or 3 minutes before the end of charging the batteries become a bit hot and for
> this the DV method does not convince me. With volt cut there's not overheating.



Why dont you stop on capacity?
I've come to the conclusion not to stress too much the cells to cut
on max capacity -10 or 15% (even if I have not cycled them enough for an experimental proof)

Capacity would be more reliable and more accurate than voltage cut


----------



## usrnam

The lithium AA & AAA I purchased are Energizer non-rechargeable. (I do have some rechargeable NiMH) After looking into rechargeable Lithium AA and AAA I found the ones available to be too expensive, nearly ~40 dollars for a set of four and require a specialized charger.

The method used to charge these rechargeable Lithium AA & AAA I found interesting. They're designed with 1.5 volt center post output and a ~4 volt outer charging ring input.

Their charger is USB with specialized contacts for the outer ring charging voltage input.

The manufacture is KENTLI.

There are a few less expensive brands a set of four runs from ~$20.00 to ~$25.00. Specifications show can be charged 500 times.


----------



## silviop

*Gatt protocol.*

Skyrc mc3000 is bluetooth LE capable (GATT), there is documentation about 
API to write bluetooth code ?


An example of gatt comunication with mc3000: 

gatttool -b E0:E5:CF:1D:6D:51 -I 
[E0:E5:CF:1D:6D:51][LE]> connect 
Attempting to connect to E0:E5:CF:1D:6D:51 
Connection successful 
[E0:E5:CF:1D:6D:51][LE]> char-desc 
handle: 0x0001, uuid: 00002800-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0002, uuid: 00002803-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0003, uuid: 00002a00-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0004, uuid: 00002803-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0005, uuid: 00002a01-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0006, uuid: 00002803-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0007, uuid: 00002a02-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0008, uuid: 00002803-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0009, uuid: 00002a03-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x000a, uuid: 00002803-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x000b, uuid: 00002a04-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x000c, uuid: 00002800-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x000d, uuid: 00002803-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x000e, uuid: 00002a05-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x000f, uuid: 00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0010, uuid: 00002800-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0011, uuid: 00002803-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0012, uuid: 0000ffe1-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0013, uuid: 00002902-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
handle: 0x0014, uuid: 00002901-0000-1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 
[E0:E5:CF:1D:6D:51][LE]>


----------



## cpa

*Re: Gatt protocol.*

I'm starting to read the manual and I've tried to watch the manual's videos, but they give me link error.
For example, the first video:
http://www.skyrc.com/manualvideo/?key=mc3000_1
The second one:
http://www.skyrc.com/manualvideo/?key=mc3000_2

And so on... all gives me error...

I'm talking about the last manual version 1.13, updated on 2017-02-13...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Gatt protocol.*



silviop said:


> there is documentation about
> API to write bluetooth code ?



it is not posted anywhere public nor do i have it

while i believe that sky does not have a strict anti-share policy of mc3k code or documentation see dex, i also believe that the additional generated support load would be a lot to handle, maybe too much and unwarranted at this point. just guessing out of the blue :huh:

afaik you are the first and so far the only to ask about ble api :ironic:

not enough demand i guess to risk opening up a potential pandora's






btw i've seen some mc3k api before and i understood sh*t. the doc produced more questions in my head  than it answered questions about the description. it was either useless to me this way, or i would have had to bombard sky with tons of questions regarding the doc. you can guess what i did


----------



## usrnam

*Data Explorer installation under Windows Vista*

I'm not certain if this is the forum I should be posting feedback for the Data Explorer. I did post something to the Data Explorer Mailinglists. Also posted to Java development who recognizes the problem but offers no solution only a couple of work-a-rounds that haven't worked for me.

The problem is I'm unable to install and run the Data Explorer under Windows Vista.

My PC is currently running Windows Vista x64 with SP2 and all the latest fixpacks. Has been running quite well with no complaints.

After installing and attempt to run the Data Explorer I receive an error message: "This application requires a Java Runtime Environment > 1.8.0 (64 bit). Same error occurs also with the 32 bit Data Explorer. When you click on the error message your re-directed to a Java url to download the latest Java version.

Java installation produces a Java 1603 error message and doesn't appear Java is fully installed.

Java 1603 error: https://java.com/en/download/help/error_1603.xml

The Java work-a-rounds haven't worked because 1. I'm unable to locate a Data Explorer object to uninstall and 2. there is no Java Control Panel.

From a command prompt "java -version" produces

java version "1.8.0_121"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_121-b13)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.121-b13, mixed mode)

Perhaps I can try to uninstall Java manually and/or perhaps try to restore the system to a previous version.

I'm wondering if anyone else within the candle power forums, running Vista, may have experienced the same problem and possibly found a solution.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Data Explorer installation under Windows Vista*



usrnam said:


> From a command prompt "java -version" produces
> 
> java version "1.8.0_121"
> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_121-b13)
> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.121-b13, mixed mode)









:shrug:


----------



## usrnam

*Re: Data Explorer installation under Windows Vista*

From a command prompt "java -version" produced same results as XP however Java is installed or being installed under Vista, a different Windows engine version (6.0.6002) which is closer to Windows 7 (Windows version 6.1.xxxx) (Windows XP = Windows version 5.x.xxxx)

Vista Windows Version

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6002]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

java -version
java version "1.8.0_121"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_121-b13)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 25.121-b13, mixed mode)


----------



## cpa

*Re: Data Explorer installation under Windows Vista*

You need to download the JRE x64 bit version as well.
Surely you are using a x32 web browser for downloading JRE, and you are only downloading the 32 bit version. You NEED also the x64 bit version...
You can do it from this link:
http://javadl.oracle.com/webapps/download/AutoDL?BundleId=218833_e9e7ea248e2c4826b92b3f075a80e441
This link is for the jre-8u121-windows-x64.exe

Hope it helps


----------



## usrnam

*Re: Data Explorer installation under Windows Vista*



cpa said:


> You need to download the JRE x64 bit version as well.
> Surely you are using a x32 web browser for downloading JRE, and you are only downloading the 32 bit version. You NEED also the x64 bit version...
> You can do it from this link:
> http://javadl.oracle.com/webapps/download/AutoDL?BundleId=218833_e9e7ea248e2c4826b92b3f075a80e441
> This link is for the jre-8u121-windows-x64.exe
> 
> Hope it helps



That Java installation file works. I was downloading from the download links provided by the Java Update and other Java webpages that directed me to a jxpiinstall.exe __ aka jre-8u121-windows-i586.exe. I think perhaps because my Firefox browser is 32-bit.

jre-8u121-windows-i586.exe wasn't installing or installing correctly.

However jre-8u121-windows-x64.exe installs just fine without any problems and errors.

Firefox doesn't have a 64 bit browser that runs under Vista.

Thanks for the correction and the download link.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Data Explorer installation under Windows Vista*



usrnam said:


> installs just fine without any problems and errors.



Is your DEX working now? 

DEX 64-bit on Vista 64-bit?

:duh2:


----------



## usrnam

*Re: Data Explorer installation under Windows Vista*



kreisl said:


> Is your DEX working now?
> 
> DEX 64-bit on Vista 64-bit?
> 
> :duh2:



Yes, Dex 64-bit under Vista x64 is now running ok. :thumbsup:

(As you're probably already aware). 

Initially Dex searches for a connected device. If the MC3000 isn't turn on and connected to a USB port Dex produces an error message no USB device can be found. Dex doesn't appear to have a USB port option, USB is automatically found and selected when a usb charger is connected and turned on. If no batteries are installed to the MC3000 Dex won't display any information when "Start Gathering" is selected.


----------



## kreisl

Ravel said:


> *Remote control of DEX running on a Raspberry Pi
> Tutorial or recipe version 0.001a
> *
> Here are 3 or 4 solutions (welcome to linux)


i am fascinated by the idea that 'MC3000 can do offline logging' (offline = the *PC *is shut down as is *bluetooth *and *wifi *during the logging time, neither of them is required during the logging, hence one could call it 'offline logging'), even if the raspi needs to be powered from the mc3k 5V/2.1A USB power output port. i shouldn't praise this  possibility yet because i prefer to witness and experience it myself first. Ravel and the dex author have been using earlier raspi models, I am gonna be using the very latest which is model 3 B. my main motivation to buy a raspi setup (my new acquisitions required to get started: raspi PCB, raspi protective case w/ cooling, 16GB Class 10 microSD card, HDMI cable, USB keyboard, USB mouse) is the testing of the mc3k offline logging, how convenient, how stable, how serious it is. If it works out well for me noob —and i am a total newbie concerning linux and never wanted to get into it, not even a foot deep, and i am no coder either— then maybe some other will feel inspired too , and maybe we'll agree that the raspi option should become more widely known. Maybe i'll then shout it out on my Twitter channel lol. 

Youtube has a couple of diy project videos on 'portable pi', i.e. a raspi with a slightly bigger case including 1x18650, touch screen, or non-touch screen plus mini keyboard, but i find the 'using smartphone display as wireless raspi screen' videos more intriguing.

While my personal incentives aren't substantial but extremely limited, the few ones do add up:
1) mc3k offline logging (major incentive and prolly the only raspi project i'll ever do:nana
2) free mathematica (minor incentive yet i always wanted a full mma installation on a handheld computi so it's a most welcome bonbon and just lovely to have, finally)
3) attractive joyful 2mm thick aluminum casing found, only 16$ on FT! (joy of ownership is one of the most powerful reasons why we buy nice flashlights, nice watches, nice knives, and nice smartphones, we like, appreciate, or cherish nice material things, don't we. the wicked one is imho over the top and outdated in no time think of raspi model 4 etc but this one seems super nice at a fair price and btw its construction also allows for plug'n play LCD's including touchscreens)

I'll keep you guys updated.. :thumbsup:


----------



## cpa

I'm interested in this too... I'll buy a Raspi model 3B as well... I don't like to have my computer on during 30 or 40 hours during the cycle process, so having a Raspbi for it could be useful.
I think the MC3000 sould have a microSD port for logging purposes BTW.


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> I think the MC3000 sould have a microSD port for logging purposes BTW.


Thanks for your interest!
i placed the various orders today and hopefully i'll get the stuff soon. The other day i also bought a SDcard/microSDcard multi combo reader for my XP-machine from a local shop. The geman vendor is out of stock of the raspi 3B, so i am not sure when my order will be fulfilled. I am mostly looking forward to the casing lol. It got great leviews on FT and AX.


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> Thanks for your interest!
> i placed the various orders today and hopefully i'll get the stuff soon. The other day i also bought a SDcard/microSDcard multi combo reader for my XP-machine from a local shop. The geman vendor is out of stock of the raspi 3B, so i am not sure when my order will be fulfilled. I am mostly looking forward to the casing lol. It got great leviews on FT and AX.



Keep us posted



> i shouldn't praise this  possibility yet because i prefer to witness and experience it myself first. Ravel and the dex author have been using earlier raspi models,



I have a model 3 as well, not tried it yet with DEX+MC3000



> major incentive and prolly the only raspi project i'll ever do:nana:)



ohh no:mecry:, you are not going to switch then to linux then


----------



## Ravel

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



kreisl said:


> 4 18650 is 1 amp max discharge, 1 18650 is 2 amp max discharge
> can i use my smartphone as screen for raspi 3B through bluetooth 4.1 (BLE) or does it have to be wlan?


I believe so, I think there are tutorials around, but better go wifi or LAN on a proper screen


----------



## usrnam

I'm not up on the the Raspi or the Raspberry. Haven't used a handheld in quite a while. Use to have several handhelds using MS kernels. I've been thinking of getting a pod such as an iPod, etc. There are iPods running Linux.

The Raspi runs a Linux OS (kernel)? You would be logging through a Linux DEX running on the Raspi? 

Same sort of MC3000 control through a Linux Dex connection with other handhelds or pods running Linux? Or is this connection your referring to, specific to the Raspi?

The MC3000 is capable of logging "offline" when only connected to a USB flash drive without some sort of software connection?


----------



## cpa

@ravel @kreisl
I've just already got the DEX running under the Raspi... I have not tested yet, because my MC3000 has not been delivered yet, but with the ravel's easy recipe It has been very quick....

Here you have an snapshot




Thanks to @Ravel for the recipe!!!!...

Edit: the raspbian distribution has installed the VNC, so it's no necessary to install tightvnc. Just activate under Preferences->Rasberry Pi configuration and configure it as you want...
Edit 2: I think the user "pi" must be member of the uucp group. I've added it with "sudo usermod -a -G uucp pi"


----------



## ddg

It took a bit over a month but finally got the thread all read! My mc3000 will arrive in another week or two. Lots and lots of good info contained in this thread, along with some... filler, lol. Appreciate all the work, knowledge and time.


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> Thanks to @Ravel for the recipe!!!!...
> 
> Edit: the raspbian distribution has installed the VNC, so it's no necessary to install tightvnc. Just activate under Preferences->Rasberry Pi configuration and configure it as you want...
> Edit 2: I think the user "pi" must be member of the uucp group. I've added it with "sudo usermod -a -G uucp pi"



i have got the raspi today but something's missing here ... :thinking:


----------



## Ravel

cpa said:


> @ravel @kreisl
> I've just already got the DEX running under the Raspi... I have not tested yet, because my MC3000 has not been delivered yet, but with the ravel's easy recipe It has been very quick....
> 
> Thanks to @Ravel for the recipe!!!!...
> 
> Edit: the raspbian distribution has installed the VNC, so it's no necessary to install tightvnc. Just activate under Preferences->Rasberry Pi configuration and configure it as you want...
> Edit 2: I think the user "pi" must be member of the uucp group. I've added it with "sudo usermod -a -G uucp pi"


cool :wave: congrats

This is quite likely, maybe forgotten I had done it, I will edit my post since I already had instructed
sudo chgrp -R uucp /var/lock


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> i have got the raspi today but something's missing here ... :thinking:


Is this a game ?


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> i have got the raspi today but something's missing here ... :thinking:



Two things...
-> Keyboard
-> Raspi Case

The second one is not really necessary... 

Edit: Also you'll need some batteries for test it...


----------



## cpa

If you want to automatize the autorun of the DEX when the Raspi is starting up, you just edit the next file:
/home/pi/.config/lxsession/LXDE-pi/autostart

and add this line at the bottom:


Code:


java -D32 -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 -jar -Xms64m -Xmx1024m /home/pi/mydataexplorer/DataExplorer/DataExplorer.jar


Note: If you have installed the DataExplorer in other path than the "mydataexplorer", you must adapt the line to it.

Hope this would be useful for you...


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> Hope this would be useful for you...


It was thx 







game time other than ravel? 

da quiz: what am i doing here the situation in full detail, and what seems strange?


----------



## scoutfai

My phone (Sony Xperia Z3) unable to connect via bluetooth to the MC3000 charger. It says no charger found.
How to fix this?


----------



## Meyer

The Z3 has Bluetooth 4.0 and is BLE capable - in theory. In practice since Android V4.4.4.
Have you verified that your phone is able to use BLE, e.g. with some heart rate monitors or smart television sets?
Then you could check with BLE Scanner, whether MC3000 is found. Connect to the device, select "Generic Access", type on the "R" at "Device Name". My MC3000 shows "NC3000".


----------



## scoutfai

Meyer said:


> The Z3 has Bluetooth 4.0 and is BLE capable - in theory. In practice since Android V4.4.4.
> Have you verified that your phone is able to use BLE, e.g. with some heart rate monitors or smart television sets?
> Then you could check with BLE Scanner, whether MC3000 is found. Connect to the device, select "Generic Access", type on the "R" at "Device Name". My MC3000 shows "NC3000".


Thank you very much for your reply.
I used some Google Play app that tests for BLE on the phone and according to the outcome my phone is BLE compatible.
I have also installed the BLE Scanner as per advise. In the BLE Scanner, the charger can be detected, clicking the "R" at the "Device Name" in "Generic Access", my MC3000 is just showed as "Charger".

Re-tried with the SkyRC app after done the test with BLE Scanner, outcome remains the same (charger not found). 

I tried with a Huawei Honor 7 phone, outcome also remains the same (charger not found).

In Google Play, at the review section of this SkyRC MC3000 app, I can see some people also experiencing similar problem on their phones.
Maybe the app itself has bug? Or it only works with Nexus device?


----------



## kreisl

Iirc the manual does *not *advise to run a BT scanner and click on "R" or "Generic Access" or "Pairing" but i could be wrong

Did you check the manual, what does it say?


----------



## cpa

Just a silly question... Do you have enabled the Bluetooth interface on the MC3000???


----------



## kreisl

Legit question. Because a BT scanner will detect a BLE signal even if Bluetooth is set to OFF on the charger.

Very sneaky


----------



## Meyer

Didn't know that - i was lucky with firmware V1.02 and manual V1.0. 

The current manual (V1.13) is describing the feature on page 14 ("Global Setup View").
Nevertheless - the BT interface should be active by default. 
Thank you for enlightement. I'll upgrade firmware later. 

By the way: "BLE Scanner" terminates the BT connection correctly on my Galaxy S5 when app is left.


----------



## cpa

Finally, my MC3000 is here!!!!
I've just installed it, and now it's performing a cycle on three 18650 batteries, with the Raspberry PI logging it, of course...
I guess I've got a little bit old model, because the serial number is 978xxx, but it is after june production I guess, because it has the new screen, the new case, etc.

I'm impressed by the noise. It's more noisy than my Opus BT-3100, and everyone say that the opus is very noisy...

I'll must to calibrate it, because all the bays give me different Voltage values... I will do it on weekend.


----------



## kreisl

Meyer said:


> By the way: "BLE Scanner" terminates the BT connection correctly on my Galaxy S5 when app is left.


FW1.02 wow, you were an early adopter, great support and trust from the beginning woot! :huh:
Yes the BT interface is active by default, for example after a Factory Reset. But maybe the scoutfai accidentally had it left deactivated in GSV when playing with the options there 

Thanks also for your user community help, Bluetooth and all, appreciated! :thumbsup:
Please do install the FW1.13 or the h*cked version with the retro games. I am not even sure that dex supports FW1.02.



cpa said:


> , with the Raspberry PI logging it, of course...
> I guess I've got a little bit old model, because the serial number is 978xxx, but it is after june production I guess, because it has the new screen, the new case, etc.


Did you open the case to learn that you have the new case? Then it is the june production or later, true. :ironic: (Which firmware version was installed?)
With the cooling fan "AUTO" setting the fan maximizes fan speed at 50°C. It is noisy then so-so imho, given that you hear the original fan sound, unaltered by imperfect assembly.

Do you operate your raspi headless? I do.
(headless raspi = no HDMI-cabled monitor + no USB/BT keyboard + no USB/BT mouse)

Btw even though i am still waiting for my "premium" case to arrive, i already found a carry pouch for the raspi, so that i can carry it nicely and show it off to other new beez. I am talking about the pouch of the Olight H1 Nova. Great stuff, perfect fit.

On an intriguing side note, since so many ppl know/have it, there are concrete plans to implement support for UT61E in dex woah!! Assuming that all goes well, we will be able to do "offline logging" of ut61e (headless too, of course), not only of mc3k. I know someone who will buy a raspi as soon as ut61e is implemented in dex.
lovecpf


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> Did you open the case to learn that you have the new case? Then it is the june production or later, true. :ironic: (Which firmware version was installed?)


No, I didn't. I've seen that the case has recessed label sticker on bottom, so I supposed it...
It comes with the 1.10. I've uploaded it to 1.13 without any problem.



kreisl said:


> With the cooling fan "AUTO" setting the fan maximizes fan speed at 50°C. It is noisy then so-so imho, given that you hear the original fan sound, unaltered by imperfect assembly.


Yes. I see on DEX that the system temp is always below from 50º.
Sorry, I don't understand what do you mean with "you hear the original fan sound, unaltered by imperfect assembly"...



kreisl said:


> Do you operate your raspi headless? I do.
> (headless raspi = no HDMI-cabled monitor + no USB/BT keyboard + no USB/BT mouse)


Of course I do!!!... In fact, I have not HDMI monitor, so I have no choice... lol

Here an snapshot:





kreisl said:


> Btw even though i am still waiting for my "premium" case to arrive


Which premium case have you ordered??


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> Here an snapshot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which premium case have you ordered??


Your original FW1.10 points to the new case from June with 99% probability, sure :thumbsup:
When the fan gets installed nicely by the mc3k production line, then the fan sound is what it is, so-so, not too noisy imho. Very acceptable fwiw. If it got installed not perfectly, say some glue droplet touching the rotating blades, then the fan sound will be louder because of that imperfection and extra vibration.

Thanks for the pic, nice! Your raspi is connected to cable-LAN and a USB thumb drive, oic. I power mine through the USB power output port of mc3k, works just fine. 

Well, i placed an order for the MA aluminum premium case but my preferred color is currently out of stock (backorder). Crossing fingers that my chosen anodization will be back in stock soon! Once i have got it, i will show it off for sure!! Oh btw, nobody was able to understand the situation of the 'screenshot' which i posted days ago?

I am sure Ravel knows :devil:


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> Your original FW1.10 points to the new case from June with 99% probability, sure :thumbsup:


Another clue: when I've uploaded the firm to the MC3000, the SNB's leds were turning on sequentially (1...2...3...4). When SNB's led 4 turned on, the flash was finished...



kreisl said:


> When the fan gets installed nicely by the mc3k production line, then the fan sound is what it is, so-so, not too noisy imho. Very acceptable fwiw. If it got installed not perfectly, say some glue droplet touching the rotating blades, then the fan sound will be louder because of that imperfection and extra vibration.


Ok, I understand what do you want to say.



kreisl said:


> Thanks for the pic, nice! Your raspi is connected to cable-LAN and a USB thumb drive, oic. I power mine through the USB power output port of mc3k, works just fine.


Yes. That's what I have. I'll try to power the raspi with the mc3000 tomorrow. I guess it works right...



kreisl said:


> Well, i placed an order for the MA aluminum premium case but my preferred color is currently out of stock (backorder).


BEAUTIFUL!!!... But is more expensive than the raspi :duh2:


----------



## Gauss163

kreisl said:


> On an intriguing side note, since so many ppl know/have it, there are concrete plans to implement support for UT61E in dex woah!! Assuming that all goes well, we will be able to do "offline logging" of ut61e (headless too, of course), not only of mc3k. I know someone who will buy a raspi as soon as ut61e is implemented in dex.



That would certainly be helpful to many users. If there was also an easy fix for the well-known UT61E drifting (due to temperature 75ppm/C and trimpot vibration) then that would yield a decent inexpensive logging meter (presumably much better than the default UT logging software).

Speaking of drift, does anyone know how much the MC3000 drifts? What does it use for a voltage ref and/or what is the tempco?


----------



## scoutfai

kreisl said:


> Iirc the manual does *not *advise to run a BT scanner and click on "R" or "Generic Access" or "Pairing" but i could be wrong
> 
> Did you check the manual, what does it say?



Yes, you are right to say that the manual does not mention anything about the BT scanner.

Meyer suggested the BLE scanner app as a means to cross check whether my phone is BLE compatible, which he thinks should be because Sony Xperia Z3 has bluetooth 4.0. The verification with the BLE scanner app confirms this. Using the app also has verified that my phone's bluetooth actually can find the charger, this also serves as a verification that the bluetooth on the charger has been turned on successfully. 
When exiting the BLE scanner app, no abnormality is observed on the phone as far as bluetooth related. Whereas in the case of the SkyRC app, once exit the app will force close the bluetooth on the phone.

Neither Meyer or I ever suggested the BLE scanner can be used to replace the SkyRC bluetooth app. 
My goal is still to get the SkyRC app working in my phone, which as of time of writing, still failing (charger not found).



cpa said:


> Just a silly question... Do you have enabled the Bluetooth interface on the MC3000???



Yes, I confirm I had it enabled. Photo below:





May I ask those who can successfully use the SkyRC bluetooth app in your phone, what is the version of the SkyRC app in your phone?
I am currently using the latest available in Google Play which is version 3.3.


----------



## DeJaVu

scoutfai said:


> Yes, you are right to say that the manual does not mention anything about the BT scanner.
> 
> Meyer suggested the BLE scanner app as a means to cross check whether my phone is BLE compatible, which he thinks should be because Sony Xperia Z3 has bluetooth 4.0. The verification with the BLE scanner app confirms this. Using the app also has verified that my phone's bluetooth actually can find the charger, this also serves as a verification that the bluetooth on the charger has been turned on successfully.
> When exiting the BLE scanner app, no abnormality is observed on the phone as far as bluetooth related. Whereas in the case of the SkyRC app, once exit the app will force close the bluetooth on the phone.
> 
> Neither Meyer or I ever suggested the BLE scanner can be used to replace the SkyRC bluetooth app.
> My goal is still to get the SkyRC app working in my phone, which as of time of writing, still failing (charger not found).
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I confirm I had it enabled. Photo below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May I ask those who can successfully use the SkyRC bluetooth app in your phone, what is the version of the SkyRC app in your phone?
> I am currently using the latest available in Google Play which is version 3.3.


On my nexus 4 , the app cant find the charger if i have a bluetooth headset paired and the headset is off at the moment.
If i unpair the headset then it finds the charger no problem.
Imo, this happens because when bluetooth gets turned on when you run the app, the phone is trying to connect to the headset first.But since it is off, it retries for some time and in the meantime mc3000 app times out.
If you have a bt headset paired to your phone, this might be the issue.


----------



## cpa

scoutfai said:


> May I ask those who can successfully use the SkyRC bluetooth app in your phone, what is the version of the SkyRC app in your phone?
> I am currently using the latest available in Google Play which is version 3.3.



I'm using the 3.0, and I guess is the last one... What app are you using??
I'm using this:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Sky_mc3000


----------



## cpa

It's strange, because on the PlayStore says that the last version is 3.3, but I can confirm that I have installed the 3.0, and is the last one, there is no update for it (I've installed yesterday)...


----------



## kreisl

Btw in my opinion, 
the app may be convenient enough for controlling slots and running programs which were programmed and saved on the phone under a nice name, for everything else the raspi solution is imho superior: logging data, printing graphs, saving sessions, saving data, exporting data, resuming sessions, transferring data, importing data for post-processing, and last but not least remote control. and fun.  Bluetooth range is always restricted to meters and rooms and you kinda need to leave the app running on the phone to get a full graph, no? you cannot analyze the data on the phone thru the app and really, imho the only powerful use of the app is _starting_ semi-remotely a previously stored program which does not need to be 1 of the 30 device programs [??]. Then again, how many different battery programs do you guys have saved on the phone for your convenience? If it is 4 or less, then you could also save them as 1 of the 30 device programs under the memory key combo <UP + SNB>. I use the key combos all the time, so convenient! For example <UP + SNB#4> is reserved for charging my set of four 16340's for my H1 Nova, <UP+SNB#1> for charging my NCR-B and -GA's at 1.75A. Your point may be that raspi costs another 35 bucks (plus a 3$ plastic enclosure hh), i take it. And that the raspi occupies additional space next to the charger. All right. But apart from these 2 points, i am winning the argument. While the raspi needs to be powered all the time for the logging (i measured less than 2W power draw), the phone can be turned off, the remote connection between phone and raspi shut down, no problem. Using raspi for mc3k means nothing but remotely operating dex (its linux version), so you're limited to the mc3k slot control capabilities of dex like hitting 1 Start gathering and 1 Stop gathering button and using the Backup&Restore dialog. In future dex versions the 'Start/Stop gathering' can have differentiated meaning, literally _gathering only_ vs. _starting/stopping the device_ as in previous dex versions. The meaning of the button was changed in the current dex version yet both meanings have the right to exist.

Omg with this post i explained half of the situation of my earlier screenshot quiz.


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> i've installed to day, looks real:



You are completely right!... the update data is today!!!... but it's still not available for my phone yet... I have to wait, I think


----------



## Meyer

The usability of Android App V3.3 is worse than V3.0, IMHO. Describing filenames (e.g. "Eneloop 2Ah 34" or "LiIon 0,5A 4,15V 12" ("12" for slots 1, 2)) are better mnemonics for a selection than a too short description of charging parameters. The display rotation, which would allow displaying more parameters in a line, is locked in the app.
After de-installing the app i returned to V3.0 (all settings lost).


----------



## cpa

I need help.
I've tried to cycle a NIMH batteries, but the charger doesn't cut off the charge process... It's allways on charge process.
My settings are:
Battery Type: NiMH
Operation: Cycle
Carge rate: 0.5A
Discharge rate: 0.5A

Charge Settings:
End Voltaje: 1,65V (maybe this would be less???)
End current: 0,1A
Restart Voltaje: 1,35V
Trickle Current: 0,05A
Tricle Time: End
DeltalV:3mV

Discharge Settings:
End Voltaje: 1V
End Current: 0,5A
Cycle settings:
1 x C>D>C
C y Dresting: OFF

Safe settings:
Cut Capacity and Time: OFF
Cut Temperature: 45ºC

I've turned off the charger after 7 hours on the first Charge process. The batteries are a white Panasonic 2100mAh like this:


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> Charge Settings:
> End Voltaje: 1,65V (maybe this would be less???)
> End current: 0,1A
> Restart Voltaje: 1,35V
> Trickle Current: 0,05A
> Tricle Time: End
> DeltalV:3mV



Please could you check the list in SPV again? With NiMH, you cannot set these options. Feel free to prove otherwise with a photo , or a sreenshot from the dex backup&restore (clipboard or tooltip). I know i am right.

Apart from that, charging with 0.5A is 0.238C no?


----------



## scoutfai

Meyer said:


> The usability of Android App V3.3 is worse than V3.0, IMHO. Describing filenames (e.g. "Eneloop 2Ah 34" or "LiIon 0,5A 4,15V 12" ("12" for slots 1, 2)) are better mnemonics for a selection than a too short description of charging parameters. The display rotation, which would allow displaying more parameters in a line, is locked in the app.
> After de-installing the app i returned to V3.0 (all settings lost).


In that case I wish to try the Android App V3.0. 
But where can I download this? Google Play only keep the latest version.


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> Please could you check the list in SPV again? With NiMH, you cannot set these options. Feel free to prove otherwise with a photo , or a sreenshot from the dex backup&restore (clipboard or tooltip). I know i am right.
> 
> Apart from that, charging with 0.5A is 0.238C no?


Yes, it's possible I am wrong. I'll check the settings again...



scoutfai said:


> In that case I wish to try the Android App V3.0.
> But where can I download this? Google Play only keep the latest version.


Here you have...
http://www.apkmonk.com/app/com.Sky_mc3000/


----------



## cpa

My settings are:
Battery Type: NiMH
Operation: Cycle
Capacity:OFF
C.CURRENT:0.5A
D.CURRENT:-0.5A
C.RESTING:0MIN
D.RESTING:0MIN
CYCLE COUNT: 1
CYCLE MODE:C>D>C
TARJET VOLT: 1.65V
DELTA PEAK:3mV
TRICLE C.: OFF
TRICLE TIME: OFF
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D.REDUCE: OFF
CUT VOLT:0.90V
CUT TEMP:45ºC
CUT TIME:OFF


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> My settings are:
> Battery Type: NiMH
> Operation: Cycle
> Capacity:OFF
> C.CURRENT:0.5A
> D.CURRENT:-0.5A
> C.RESTING:0MIN
> D.RESTING:0MIN
> CYCLE COUNT: 1
> CYCLE MODE:C>D>C
> TARJET VOLT: 1.65V
> DELTA PEAK:3mV
> TRICLE C.: OFF
> TRICLE TIME: OFF
> RESTART VOLT: OFF
> D.REDUCE: OFF
> CUT VOLT:0.90V
> CUT TEMP:45ºC
> CUT TIME:OFF



Well, if you use 0.5A as charging rate, then please use DELTA PEAK:0dV as matching setting.
I am going to test my recommendation now too with 2xENELOOP AA and 2xPKCELL AA.
I will log "offline" and "headless" thru raspi from my phone. :kiss:




(btw raspi 3B chip-on-board dimensions: chip1 14x14x1.00mm chip2 8.5x8.5x0.90mm chip3 12x12x0.60mm)
(btw raspi FT cooler-casing dimensions: cool1 15x15x1.40mm cool2 non-existent cool3 15x15x0.70mm)
(btw raspi FT thermal-pads dimensions: cpad1 15x15x1.00mm cpad2 non-existent cpad3 15x15x1.00mm)

FT case: in order to cool chip2, cool2 should have 1.50mm height because (1.50+0.90)=(1.40+1.00)=2.40mm, and its dimensions should be 10x10x1.50mm, not bigger because of the risk of shorting. With this in place, cpad2 can have 1.00mm thickness too, no problem. The 15x15x1.50mm copper shim from BG should fit perfectly, after sanding its side lengths from 15mm down to 10mm.
CA case: the clearance between bottom and chip3 is about TBA. thus a 15x15 copper shim plus a thermal pad would do the trick


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> Well, if you use 0.5A as charging rate, then please use DELTA PEAK:0dV as matching setting.
> I am going to test my recommendation now too with 2xENELOOP AA and 2xPKCELL AA.
> I will log "offline" and "headless" thru raspi from my phone. :kiss:
> 
> (btw raspi 3B chip-on-board dimensions: chip1 14x14x1.00mm chip2 8.5x8.5x0.90mm chip3 12x12x0.60mm)



Done!... I've set the Delta Peak to 0dV. I'm also log throw raspi...


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> Done!... I've set the Delta Peak to 0dV. I'm also log throw raspi...



Test successfully completed, 0dV did it.





Both for the Eneloop and the c****y Pkcell.

My pleasure :wave:


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> Test successfully completed, 0dV did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both for the Eneloop and the c****y Pkcell.
> 
> My pleasure :wave:



Mine is not cutting off...


 

What should I have to do??...


----------



## mrrhh

Just out of curiosity, can someone measure the resistance across the charger/battery terminals with the power removed? I've run into another charger that presents something close to a short circuit across the terminals when the charger isn't powered, so it actively discharges the battery in it when you turn off the power, and I'm wondering how the MC3000 stacks up.


----------



## sbj

After the test of HKJ (read under measurements); “When not powered the charger will discharge with about 4mA“
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/43699


----------



## sbj

cpa said:


> .....What should I have to do??...


 Set charge current to 1A.


----------



## Eliobell

I had a strong doubt: when I charge batteries nimh with -DV = zeroV do you think that the charge will stop when the voltage stop to increase, or the -DV is ignored?
I say this because I set a charge to cut volts at 1.55 and -DV = 0, and in watching the charger, charge stopped after a few minutes that the display was indicated 1,52V and not 1.55.


----------



## kreisl

Eliobell said:


> I had a strong doubt: when I charge batteries nimh with -DV = zeroV do you think that the charge will stop when the voltage stop to increase, or the -DV is ignored?
> I say this because I set a charge to cut volts at 1.55 and -DV = 0, and in watching the charger, charge stopped after a few minutes that the display was indicated 1,52V and not 1.55.


charger has CUT VOLT and TARGET VOLT. you said "cut volts" but meant TARGET VOLT, right? the meaning of the latter is manifold and depends on the battery type and it is explained in a concise yeah precise manner in the manual. never mind. was just saying hh.

can you show us the graph of your charging?

0dV means that the charging will stop when de voltage, in your case 1.52V, stops increasing. 0dV does *not* mean that -DV be ignored.

On the other hand, if the TARGET VOLT is reached *before* the voltage graph peaks, then the charging will stop too. In your case, if you had set TARGET VOLT=1.48V, then the charger would have stopped at 1.48V already and not at the later peak (1.52V), thus ignoring the -DV indeed.

Basically, whatever termination condition is fulfilled first (TARGET VOLT? DELTA PEAK? BATTERY TEMPERATURE? etc), will stop the program. I am not sure if this was explained clearly in the manual tl;dr


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> What should I have to do??...


Are you 100% sure that in your program the 0dV got saved? I mean, really? 
As you know, you need to click ENTER to make the selection, then scroll down, select SAVE TO:All Slots, then long-press ENTER there.

Your voltage graph shows a voltage drop, so 0dV should have terminated the charging, as it did in my graph. You could recheck your program settings, as mentioned, and also try some other NiMH batteries. To save test time, just do a Charge operation, not Cycle.


----------



## kreisl

mrrhh said:


> (…)



i am not doing it

i am feeling insulted

my problem

and

i am trying to get over it


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> Are 100% sure that in your program the 0dV got saved? I mean, really?
> As you know, you need to click ENTER to make the selection, then scroll down, select SAVE TO:All Slots.


I think so, but I'll confirm you on Monday. I am out for the weekend. Time to play with my flashlights on the mountain, and do some sport. Nothing about chargers until Monday!

Have a marvellous weekend!, and thank you so much for your help and kindness...


----------



## scoutfai

cpa said:


> Yes, it's possible I am wrong. I'll check the settings again...
> 
> 
> Here you have...
> http://www.apkmonk.com/app/com.Sky_mc3000/



Thanks for the link.

Installed and tried it, unfortunately still the same error (charger not found). 
Guess my phone cannot be used to control the charger after all.


----------



## Eliobell

kreisl said:


> 0dV means that the charging will stop when de voltage, in your case 1.52V, stops increasing. 0dV does *not* mean that -DV be ignored.
> 
> 
> Thank you so much. Is that I would understand. In definitely -0V is a way to put in security every charge ! If target volt is programmed too hight, -0dV will stop the charge when the battery is filled.


----------



## kreisl

scoutfai said:


> Guess my phone cannot be used to control the charger after all.


all USB cables must be disconnected from the charger. i am sure that it's the case in your setup. just saying for others with the same trouble. clearly, the bluetooth and the micro-USB cannot work at the same time, it is either or.
Sorry to hear. you're saying that your phone's BT scanner does detect the charger (so we can assume for now that the mc3k BLE hardware is not defective) but when you launch the app, the app says "charger not found", is that it? Hmmm.. i would try several other phones and phablets to rule out defectiveness of mc3k BLE hardware.

@Eliobell, you got it :thumbsup:


----------



## scoutfai

kreisl said:


> all USB cables must be disconnected from the charger. i am sure that it's the case in your setup. just saying for others with the same trouble. clearly, the bluetooth and the micro-USB cannot work at the same time, it is either or.
> Sorry to hear. you're saying that your phone's BT scanner does detect the charger (so we can assume for now that the mc3k BLE hardware is not defective) but when you launch the app, the app says "charger not found", is that it? Hmmm.. i would try several other phones and phablets to rule out defectiveness of mc3k BLE hardware.
> 
> @Eliobell, you got it :thumbsup:


The USB cable was not connect to the charger when I tried to launch the bluetooth app. 
The USB data link works perfectly fine on my computer though. 

Yes I too think that the charger bluetooth itself is not defective, I am incline to think that it is the android app that is causing the problem. After all, if you check the review in Google Play, there are quite some people complaining about similar problem.

You are right to suggest to try with other devices. I am trying to look for a Nexus device from my friend now. Because I saw a youtube video where a Nexus device successfully connect to the charger using bluetooth. 
I had tried with a Honor 7 though, not working also.


----------



## bkling

Just got a new set of this MC3000. I know there were discussed before about the easy broken spring restrainer. Just need to get a quick answer, has this issue been resolved by SKYrc or do I need to reinforce it?


----------



## tjh

bkling said:


> Just got a new set of this MC3000. I know there were discussed before about the easy broken spring restrainer. Just need to get a quick answer, has this issue been resolved by SKYrc or do I need to reinforce it?


It's been fixed.


----------



## bkling

tjh said:


> It's been fixed.


Thanks for your quick reply. That's good news.


----------



## bkling

Without realising the unit already at its latest firmware, I tried to update again with firmware 1.4. It did not proceed well and promted me something like start vector err1 after a short while. I tried many times and unable to flash it. The unit was not bricked though but just curious why the unit promted me the error message as it should pose no harm even I flash it with firmware version.


----------



## mrrhh

sbj said:


> After the test of HKJ (read under measurements); “When not powered the charger will discharge with about 4mA“
> http://budgetlightforum.com/node/43699



Thanks, I'd missed that and didn't want to check all 4,500 messages. I've been checking various chargers and found the best was 20-30MΩ when unpowered, the worst was 4kΩ, which discharged the cells pretty quickly, while the tens-of-MΩ was presumably just a few μA of MOSFET leakage. Having said that, a discharge rate of 4mA at 3.7V would be even worse, around 1kΩ.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi a few questions ;
i have a vp2 and VC2 Plus, as well as a back up vp1.

is it worth me upgrading to this 3000?.
also is it like an iPhone where I need to keep updating It's firmware or something.
im not really interested in all the app stuff on it and things.
is the vp2 and VC2 Plus just as good or ok enough?.
looks and sounds good but if I have to keep updating it I can't be bothered.


----------



## kreisl

bkling said:


> Without realising the unit already at its latest firmware, I tried to update again with firmware 1.4.



we are confused.

Originally, what did your "HW Version" say?
And what did your "FW Version" say?

In any case, the instructions require you to test the MC3000 Monitor Software first, check the TXT file inside the RAR file.


----------



## kreisl

neutralwhite said:


> is the vp2 and VC2 Plus just as good or ok enough?.
> looks and sounds good but if I have to keep updating it I can't be bothered.


the firmware updates, offered less than 1x per year, are for swatting tiny rare bugs and maybe adding functionality like more GUI languages (e.g. geman, prussian, china, francaise). 

i know professional-like owners who never bothered updating, so you really wouldn't need to :tinfoil:
imho . xstar is ok enough . as is opus and efest . littokala is so lala . vp4 plus nice flat fits into my drawer .


----------



## scoutfai

I just tried the Android app v3.3 in a Asus Zenfone 2, unexpectedly the app works perfectly normal.
I then immediately tried again with my own phone (the Sony Xperia Z3), this time I notice something difference. Usually when I just click to open the app, the app will open and displayed a wrongly spell word "Enbled", an alphabet "a" missing. 
But this time, it displayed the full, correct spelling "Enabled", and it successfully detect the charger and run the app normally.

I am quite surprised by this, as I didn't change anything on the charger and on my phone. All I did was installed the app in a Asus Zenfone 2 and then the Asus phone successfully run the app, then I turned to my phone and tried again, this time my success too although previously it had failed many times.

The Asus Zenfone 2 is a 5.5" screen phone whereas the Sony Xperia Z3 is a 5.2" screen.
I am wondering does the resolution dimension cause any issue on the charger or the app.

But now that I have successfully run the app, my problem should be solved now.


----------



## Snotgople

kreisl said:


> imho . xstar is ok enough . as is opus and efest . littokala is so lala . vp4 plus nice flat fits into my drawer .



You don't seem to be too excited about the Liitokala - may I ask why? 

I'm considering buying an Accupower IQ328+, which according to my informations should be pretty much similar to the Liitokala.


----------



## kreisl

Snotgople said:


> may I ask why?


i tested an early Lii500, you know, simple stuff like current measurement, and i wasn't satisfied with what i saw on my dmm. i gave it a fail, moved on and never looked back. 1R k.o. didn't reach the 2R.

in all fairness, of all my tested chargers only 2 models made it to 2R. and they are mucho mas expensive than any Lii model.


----------



## Snotgople

Ok, thanks for answering. Think I'll maybe throw the extra money and go for the SkyRC instead...


----------



## cpa

Kreisl, you were right, I didn't save the program. I have finally been able to charge my Panasonic Infinitum. I've posted the results on the Opus thread...

Again, thank you for your help...

How about your Pi?? Mine is logging pretty well... I'm using it also for other functions as well...

Regards!


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> How about your Pi?? Mine is logging pretty well... I'm using it also for other functions as well...









Thanks for the good news!

My Pi is still naked, which is why i put it back into its cute paper bag. My aluminum case order is still unshipped, i'll start looking for worthy alternatives np. Oh tiny update info, the dex ut61e project work has been initialized, it is happening cha! 

Maybe it is possible to make the raspi start DEX logging mc3k through voice command? I am not sure how powerful voice control software nowadays is. ('Hey-pi, launch Data-Explorer, then start recording battery data')

Salu2cepe


----------



## Benediction

ok.gonna sound kinda dumb here.

With a large 18650 cell and an attempt to perform a DISCHARGE amperage test with a VMM, from what I have now read I can only assume that the calibration and VMM will *not work *while the cell is actually inside the unit, connected to the front plate and the spring loaded negative bar.
I have read that 
- The voltage must pass from the positive bar of the charger, *through the cables* of the VMM and *then connect* to the positive end of the cell/battery in question.

So how *do you *check amperage discharge, as part of the calibration process with a given cell?
*Pictures please?*

Will alligator clips be involved or just probes?


----------



## DeJaVu

Benediction said:


> ok.gonna sound kinda dumb here.
> 
> With a large 18650 cell and an attempt to perform a DISCHARGE amperage test with a VMM, from what I have now read I can only assume that the calibration and VMM will *not work *while the cell is actually inside the unit, connected to the front plate and the spring loaded negative bar.
> I have read that
> - The voltage must pass from the positive bar of the charger, *through the cables* of the VMM and *then connect* to the positive end of the cell/battery in question.
> 
> So how *do you *check amperage discharge, as part of the calibration process with a given cell?
> *Pictures please?*
> 
> Will alligator clips be involved or just probes?


With battery inside, put on the negative contact two pieces of tinfoil(or some conductive metal sheet), and a piece of paper between them to prevent contact. Connect aligator clips to each of them and profit


----------



## kreisl

DeJaVu said:


> With battery inside, put on the negative contact two pieces of tinfoil(or some conductive metal sheet), and a piece of paper between them to prevent contact. Connect aligator clips to each of them and profit



Here 3 pics for illustration:

















Slider needs to be insulated, for example with paper or unshrunk heat shrink sleeve. Connect red wire (DMM positive lead "+") to lower end of battery with or without addition of a short low-resistance metal thing, for example a piece of copper cable. Connect black wire (DMM negative lead "-") directly to tip of slider. DMM is now connected in series with battery in logical direction: charging the battery will return a positive amperage reading, discharging it a negative reading.

Sent from my Xiaomi phone


----------



## Benediction

Thanks all,

Electrical tape + thin cardboard for non-conductive worked.
And a bent no sheath wire (as in Kreisl pictures above) worked fine.


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> with or without addition of a short low-resistance metal thing, for example a piece of copper cable


just commenting… by the way, maybe interesting/important to know, the _resistance _of the metal thing (if one chooses to use one) does not matter too much! Neither does the resistance of the DMM.

wha?






Because batteries have resistance too. So the slot does not know where the total resistance comes from: battery only? or battery plus contacts plus metal thingy plus DMM plus etc?

If the total resistance is higher, than the slot presses harder to make the user-wanted current flow flow. after all it measures the actual current, doesn't it? when you follow the traces on the pcb, you will see that the current measurement takes place right behind the battery. in line. in series. as it should be. 

so if there is a higher resistance, the slot would compensate through a higher slot voltage or something or whatever and also regulate that the current itself remains constant.

pretty beautiful, if you ask me :kiss:






lol


----------



## cpa

@kreisl, do you know if is possible to connect the mc3000 to the DEX via Bluetooth instead of USB port???
If this is not possible, could you ask for this feature to the Dex's developer team???

This would be great, because you don't need to have the charger near the pi or PC...

What do you think??


----------



## kreisl

i get your idea, thanks for the thought, i'll ask np but not request. Bluetooth is not a reliable protocol for logging imho (for example smartphone's bluetooth app) and in the DEX preferences there is Serial Configuration and "skip bluetooth devices" option item, which hints at that such a logging possibility was already considered and ruled out by the author. i'll ask anyway.

btw right now i am testing win-dex logging ut61e. *it works!* got implemented so fast, hilarious fantastic. but it is a team effort to make the implementation as mature/satisfactory as mc3k's implementation. not sure how long it'll take for the maturation (mc3k implementation in dex took about 1 full year with heavy testing and debugging rounds omg) but the next dex release version will have ut61e initial support already yay!


----------



## brighterthanthesun

I was all but ready to pull the trigger on the Opus 3100 today, and then I saw a deal on the mc3000 for $79. I know that the SkyRC is a much better charger than the Opus, but reading this thread concerns me about the complexity. Is the charger designed with a "simple mode" that will allow simple charging and capacity testing and then allow me to ease into the programmable but fun stuff? I think I even saw that someone created a cheat sheet for operating the mc3000. I have little doubt that I will become as wonky with this charger as many others seem to have, I am just looking for a little convincing.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

brighterthanthesun said:


> I was all but ready to pull the trigger on the Opus 3100 today, and then I saw a deal on the mc3000 for $79. I know that the SkyRC is a much better charger than the Opus, but reading this thread concerns me about the complexity. Is the charger designed with a "simple mode" that will allow simple charging and capacity testing and then allow me to ease into the programmable but fun stuff? I think I even saw that someone created a cheat sheet for operating the mc3000. I have little doubt that I will become as wonky with this charger as many others seem to have, I am just looking for a little convincing.



Where is this MC3000 $79 deal?


----------



## ElectroPulse

MidnightDistortions said:


> Where is this MC3000 $79 deal?



Did some Googling, and found it.

Two codes (sounds like either work, I used the top one) - 12% off, for use on Gearbest.com:
GB17LED
GBCHS
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2844265-SKYRC-MC3000-Charger-(-79-19) 

Just ordered one myself  (included free 3-7 day shipping :rock


----------



## Mp0w3r

So I just got my SkyRc MC3000 in the mail and I think there's something wrong with the fan, it has a buzzing sound coming from it, I took a video of what the fan sounds like.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

ElectroPulse said:


> Did some Googling, and found it.
> 
> Two codes (sounds like either work, I used the top one) - 12% off, for use on Gearbest.com:
> GB17LED
> GBCHS
> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2844265-SKYRC-MC3000-Charger-(-79-19)
> 
> Just ordered one myself  (included free 3-7 day shipping :rock



Thanks, tried registering at gearbest but they won't send the confirmation email. Maybe i gotta wait till Monday.


----------



## cpa

Mp0w3r said:


> So I just got my SkyRc MC3000 in the mail and I think there's something wrong with the fan, it has a buzzing sound coming from it, I took a video of what the fan sounds like.




Yes, there is a problem indeed... I think is some glue. Just open the case and look what is happened. I guess is easy to fix it...


----------



## Mp0w3r

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Do I have to remove the rubber feet? Also will this void the warranty if I open the unit?


----------



## kreisl

ElectroPulse said:


> Did some Googling, and found it.
> 
> Two codes (sounds like either work, I used the top one) - 12% off, for use on Gearbest.com:
> GB17LED
> GBCHS



temporary and unauthorized deal





nice stunt, GB





unbelievable them


----------



## ElectroPulse

MidnightDistortions said:


> Thanks, tried registering at gearbest but they won't send the confirmation email. Maybe i gotta wait till Monday.



Check your spam folder maybe? I got the email within 1-2 minutes (this was my first purchase with them, so set up my account just before making it).



kreisl said:


> temporary and unauthorized deal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nice stunt, GB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unbelievable them



Hmm... both codes aren't working? That's strange, it worked just last night (2am-ish MST) for me...


----------



## OttaMattaPia

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Mp0w3r said:


> Do I have to remove the rubber feet? Also will this void the warranty if I open the unit?



Warranty? What warranty? Kind of depends where you are and where it came from. If you are in the US for example and it came direct from China....you essentially have no warranty because it is too expensive to send back to China. But, if you bought it from a US supplier, you "might" get some help.

Sounds like a wire or something internal rubbing the blades.
Bummer. Good luck.

For others who get units with this same problem, could you be so kind as to post the solution?
Thx


----------



## OttaMattaPia

Snotgople said:


> You don't seem to be too excited about the Liitokala - may I ask why?
> 
> I'm considering buying an Accupower IQ328+, which according to my informations should be pretty much similar to the Liitokala.



I have an AccuPower IQ338XL.
Let me just say, it has some issues. Not so accurate. Vastly different charge and discharge values on the same battery...in different slots.


----------



## usrnam

You may still be able to get a Square Trade Warranty for your MC3000.

After purchasing a MC3000 directly from China , the shipment became lost. Receiving a refund or store credit, I then purchased a MC3000 from Progressive RC for $99.95 with free US shipping. For an additional $15.00 purchased a 3 year Square Trade Warranty.

Sort of strange when purchasing directly from China, the MC3000 was held at US Customs for over a month until it became lost in US mail.

Here's a site I came across that has Raspberry PI modules and parts. 
https://www.adafruit.com/categories/813

________ Words of Caution when operating battery chargers that plug into VAC using AC/DC adapters.

One thing I learned about chargers that use an AC/DC adapter. Is you don't want to plug the DC plug directly into the charger when the adapter is hot, plugged into AC.

Some op manuals have this as fine print in the op instructions. 

I have an Opus charger where I re-plugged the dc plug into the charger several times, now the fan runs all the time. I noticed very small sparks that lept from the dc plug to the charger while plugging the dc plug into the charger. 

Most of these chargers aren't well electrically insulated / isolated and don't have the necessary electronics to prevent any power feedback into the main pcb.

I haven't had any problems with the MC3000. What you can do to observe this phenomenon with a charger you have. Position the charger with ac/dc power supply in a dark room. Insert the DC plug directly into the charger, you should observe a very small spark between the dc plug and the charger. Potentially the spark is difficult to detect. Plugging in the dc plug when hot creates a from very light to heavier arching between the dc plug and charger.


----------



## OttaMattaPia

usrnam said:


> You may still be able to get a Square Trade Warranty for your MC3000.



You know....I hadn't thought of that but THAT might be the way to go. $115.00 with a 3 year REAL warranty.


----------



## OttaMattaPia

maukka said:


> That's very clever. I'd been using my older MC3000 with snapped posts with some random pieces of fill to achieve contact. Took it apart and put some cable ties in there, but must've shorted something out while putting it back together since now I get the following error from the ADC (MCP3424-1 Err). Tried reassembling it and checking that everything's ok, but the charger doesn't seem to recover from it. At least I have a spare...



I've heard of this happening to various people over and over.

Wouldn't it be a smart idea BEFORE powering it back up to use a multimeter to make sure there is no continuity between the positive and negative posts?

If there it, it is shorted (very bad). If not, you should be good to go.


----------



## Konflikt

Hi All,
I have just purchased this charger/analyzer. I am still learning it, but I have 2 questions:
-I have initialized a Li-Ion refresh program via the android Bluetooth app. at the end, there are different capacity results on the mobile app compared with the charger's screen. So which is the valid one? (assume the charger's). 
-another issue is that the FAN is really loud. but it seems like something is blocking it..
thank you!


----------



## kreisl

hehe i am guessing that i know the culprit but lemme let others solve the mistery 

btw welcome to dee owner's club :wave:


----------



## Nev

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Come on don't keep us in suspense , what's causing it?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

i am just guessing:

the program is REFRESH. so you get 3 values, charge1, discharge1, charge2. to some users it is not clear which of these values is displayed on the End screen of mc3000 device vs. mc3000 android app


----------



## Benediction

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I've managed to get the internal temp for my MC3000 to 70c (and fan on high) just discharging 4 x 18650 at .75 mA - then I put a laptop cooler (big single fan) under it and got it down to *only *60c.


----------



## tatasal

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Benediction said:


> I've managed to get the internal temp for my MC3000 to 70c (and fan on high) just discharging 4 x 18650 at .75 mA - then I put a laptop cooler (big single fan) under it and got it down to *only *60c.



Seventy degrees Celsius (158 F), discharging 4 x 18650 at even less than 1A/bay discharge rate? 

That's horrible thermal management.


----------



## amf14

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just got my MC3000 from Gearbest!

It comes with FW1.3 which I assume is the latest. It is a HUGE charger! With a steep learning curve to operate. The settings in the smartphone app (Android and iOS) are not as detailed as those in the unit itself.


----------



## amf14

Mp0w3r said:


> So I just got my SkyRc MC3000 in the mail and I think there's something wrong with the fan, it has a buzzing sound coming from it, I took a video of what the fan sounds like.




Mine sounds exactly the same. Have you found the problem? Solution?


----------



## amf14

maukka said:


> That's very clever. I'd been using my older MC3000 with snapped posts with some random pieces of fill to achieve contact. Took it apart and put some cable ties in there, but must've shorted something out while putting it back together since now I get the following error from the ADC (MCP3424-1 Err). Tried reassembling it and checking that everything's ok, but the charger doesn't seem to recover from it. At least I have a spare...



Same problem here. Any Solution to this? Thanks.


----------



## Benediction

Regarding MCP3434 error - this *might not *be the issue but make sure that no USB cables of any kind are connected to the unit before powering it on.
If you have a usb cable connected between your computer and the box, before applying the main transformer power, the unit will "appear" to be on but non-functional.
That is due to the 5v of power it is getting from your computer over the USB cable.


----------



## OttaMattaPia

Hello,
I was wondering how you got DataExplorer to work with the MC3000?

Do you use a USB to TTL Serial converter?
Is there a post somewhere explaining the steps to connect the MC3000 to DataEplorer?

To me, it appears that DEX is expecting a Serial Port...not a USB HID port.

I tried just connecting several USB Data cables but that didn't seem to work.
The Only Ports that show up in Device Manager are HID and those do not show up in DEX.
There must be some extra steps?

Oh, the PC Link software connects just fine and works well so it "probably" isn't the USB cable.

Thanks


----------



## cpa

Nope... nothing about a Serial converter... Just an USB cable...
Have you configured it??... You must go to Device selection and port configuration and choose the MC3000-Set device. There is a message where is explained very well. Let me to search it for you...


----------



## cpa

OttaMattaPia said:


> Hello,
> I was wondering how you got DataExplorer to work with the MC3000?


Just a question for you...
Is the MC3000 Monitor working?? Have you tried it??
http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route=product/product/download&download_id=170


----------



## cpa

cpa said:


> There is a message where is explained very well. Let me to search it for you...


I think there is another one more extended... but this would be useful anyway 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ger-analyzer&p=5004120&viewfull=1#post5004120


----------



## OttaMattaPia

Thanks cpa :twothumbs

I believe I had followed those steps and it didn't work but I'll follow the steps posted verbatim and see if that makes a difference.
Will give it a try again today.


----------



## kreisl

OttaMattaPia said:


> Thanks cpa :twothumbs
> 
> I believe I had followed those steps and it didn't work but I'll follow the steps posted verbatim and see if that makes a difference.
> Will give it a try again today.



r u on Windows?
basic troubleshooting on Windows:
- you need to have the latest Java Runtime Environment JRE installed, see java.com download
- the bit-version of Java must match the bit-version of DEX (32-bit Java for 32-bit DEX, 64-bit Java for 64-bit DEX)

After pressing "Start gathering", the DEX software waits for data, so you must press <Enter> on your charger.

@cpa , my raspi alu case got shipped , will take at least 4 weeks to reach me through Surface Mail . I am planning to review it and youtube , will be some phun! :naughty:


----------



## OttaMattaPia

cpa...you da MAN!

I followed the exact instruction syou posted and now it's logging data so....

Thank you so much ! :twothumbs


----------



## OttaMattaPia

kreisl said:


> r u on Windows?
> basic troubleshooting on Windows:
> - you need to have the latest Java Runtime Environment JRE installed, see java.com download
> - the bit-version of Java must match the bit-version of DEX (32-bit Java for 32-bit DEX, 64-bit Java for 64-bit DEX)
> 
> After pressing "Start gathering", the DEX software waits for data, so you must press <Enter> on your charger.
> 
> @cpa , my raspi alu case got shipped , will take at least 4 weeks to reach me through Surface Mail . I am planning to review it and youtube , will be some phun! :naughty:



Yes, thanks
Must have simply been the ORDER in which I was connecting things.
All good now!


----------



## Mp0w3r

amf14 said:


> Mine sounds exactly the same. Have you found the problem? Solution?



I opened my unit and found nothing rubbing and everything looked good, I put it back together and the fan buzzing noise was gone :thinking:

I have no idea what was causing the problem, but just opening the unit fixed my fan issue.


----------



## OttaMattaPia

Mp0w3r said:


> I opened my unit and found nothing rubbing and everything looked good, I put it back together and the fan buzzing noise was gone :thinking:
> I have no idea what was causing the problem, but just opening the unit fixed my fan issue.



Good to hear you fixed it. Good work.


----------



## OttaMattaPia

*MC3000 charger-analyzer - Changing the log entry interval*

I've been reading the manual and searching this thread but come up short.

I'm trying to reduce the number of log entries in the TABLE VIEW from one every second (or so) to one entry every 30 seconds.

*Time Base / Time Step* does not seem to change to actual sample interval.
In the Time Base Screen under Time Step I have a units of msec (milliseconds) and 1.0.
So I assume that means the logging interval is ONE Millisecond....or 1000/of a second
So, I thought changing the Time Step to 1000 would change the log interval to 1 second, therefore changing the Time Step to 30000 would make the log interval 30 seconds.
Didn't work like that.

I've tried adjusting the settings in the configuration and preferences that I thought would do that and it seems it did change the displayed time interval on screen, but the entries were still coming every second.

Where in the manual can I find this information or where in this thread?

Thanks


----------



## kreisl

*Re: MC3000 charger-analyzer - Changing the log entry interval*



OttaMattaPia said:


> I've been reading the manual and searching this thread but come up short.


here my take: you're talking about DEX logging and DEX manual? DEX code samples at exactly 1.0Hz, it is a code cycle thing and also natural to DEX or mc3k api. it is obvious that one cannot increase the (whose?) sampling frequency indefinitely, there has to be a limit. having said that, 1.0Hz is perfect for this logging system. now you want to reduce the logging sample cycle down to once very 30 seconds. that's so low that i don't even know how many Hertz that is. so my take is that i take the 1Hz and be happy. and if i wanted a table with only 2 data rows per minute, then instead of trying to figure it out with Excel i'd launch mma since it sits next to dex anyway (on the raspi, at least lol) and take the 2 data rows with ..lemme think.. probably with the Take command. i am not an expert DEX user so maybe we're overlooking how it could be done in dex the very.

maybe my take (mma solution Take) s*cks, so if anyone knows how it's done conveniently in DEX or in Excel, please share tanks!


----------



## OttaMattaPia

kreisl said:


> here my take: you're talking about DEX logging and DEX manual? DEX code samples at exactly 1.0Hz, it is a code cycle thing and also natural to DEX or mc3k api. it is obvious that one cannot increase the (whose?) sampling frequency indefinitely, there has to be a limit. having said that, 1.0Hz is perfect for this logging system. now you want to reduce the logging sample cycle down to once very 30 seconds. that's so low that i don't even know how many Hertz that is. so my take is that i take the 1Hz and be happy. and if i wanted a table with only 2 data rows per minute, then instead of trying to figure it out with Excel i'd launch mma since it sits next to dex anyway (on the raspi, at least lol) and take the 2 data rows with ..lemme think.. probably with the Take command. i am not an expert DEX user so maybe we're overlooking how it could be done in dex the very.
> 
> maybe my take (mma solution Take) s*cks, so if anyone knows how it's done conveniently in DEX or in Excel, please share tanks!



Ok. I thought this would be something as simple as just telling DEX to only selectively record a log entry at the interval the user specified...ie...30 seconds, 1 minute etc
For my purposes, I don't need a log entry every Millisecond. Too many entries. But I'll find a way to filter the output file if necessary.

I wonder why DEX has a place to change these values if it has no impact on output?
Oh well. Maybe someone else knows a way?


----------



## OttaMattaPia

So far, everything on this thing seems to work well. I was skeptical about buying it.

Even the Bluetooth app works perfectly.
I find the Bluetooth control very convenient.

I guess they've worked out most of the issues at this point. Patience pays ;-)


----------



## Konflikt

amf14 said:


> Mine sounds exactly the same. Have you found the problem? Solution?


I have exactly the same issue. what is this, how can I solve it?


----------



## amf14

Mp0w3r said:


> I opened my unit and found nothing rubbing and everything looked good, I put it back together and the fan buzzing noise was gone :thinking:
> 
> I have no idea what was causing the problem, but just opening the unit fixed my fan issue.





Konflikt said:


> I have exactly the same issue. what is this, how can I solve it?



Thanks Mp0w3r!

Maybe loosening the screws a solved it.


----------



## OttaMattaPia

They must have changed the fans....the one I just received is so quiet I JUST BARELY (If I put my ear right next to it) hear it, but I can feel the air moving and if I put my ear to it I can feel it humming ever so slightly.

Super quiet fan.


----------



## dfacex

What about charging this LTO (Lithium Titanate) Cells?

http://www.batteryspace.com/LTO-1865-Rechargeable-Cell-2.4V-1300-mAh-39A-rated-3.12Wh.aspx


----------



## kreisl

dfacex said:


> What about charging this LTO


LTO, what's that? 

Haven't heard of it before afaik. Do you have a battery manufacturer's full datasheet PDF? I didn't find it on BU :thinking:
Sure we (=cpf community) could add it to mc3k firmware why not, it would be a straight-forward implementation with the charging algorithm being same-old-same-old cc-cv :tired:.

However we need to be clear and agree on the admissible voltage ranges and their defaults, Linden for example doesn't agree with the maximum limit as proposed by BU, and BU isn't consistent with the max limit recommendation either: 


Linden's Handbook of Batteries said:


> Depending on the specific lithium-ion battery chemistry that is used, the upper voltage limit on charge, as specified by the manufacturer, is usually limited between 4.1 to 4.3 V. On discharge, the cell voltage should not fall below 2.5 to 2.7 V. Newer lithium-ion and polymer formulations have significantly different over-voltage and undervoltage limits. Phosphate-based lithium-ion voltages have maximum limits near 3.8 V and minimums below 2.0 V. Titanate-based chemistries are even lower, with maximum limits near 2.5 V and minimums near 1.8 V. In all cases, the tolerance for primary detection is typically +/- 25 to 50mV for overvoltage conditions and +/– 50 to 100mV for undervoltage conditions. (…) nominal cell voltage 2.4V





BatteryUniversity.com said:


> BU-205 However, the battery is expensive and at 65Wh/kg the specific energy is low, rivalling that of NiCd. Li-titanate charges to 2.80V/cell, and the end of discharge is 1.80V/cell. (…) Summary Table Voltages 2.40V nominal; typical operating range 1.8–2.85V/cell Specific energy (capacity) 70–80Wh/kg Charge (C-rate) 1C typical; 5C maximum, charges to 2.85V Discharge (C-rate) 10C possible, 30C 5s pulse; 1.80V cut-off on LCO/LTO Cycle life 3,000–7,000
> BU-216 Nominal voltage 2.40V Full charge 2.85V Full discharge 1.80V Minimal voltage 1.50V (est.)



Any suggestions?


*Lithium voltage option
**{admissible voltage range}
**Default
*LiIon CHARGE target voltage{4.00|4.01|…|4.24|4.25}V4.20VLiIon CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|3.98|3.99|…|4.17|4.18}VOFFLiIon STORAGE voltage{3.65|3.66|…|3.99|4.00}V 3.80VLiIon DISCHARGE cut-off{2.50|2.51|…|3.64|3.65}V3.00VLiIo4.35 CHARGE target voltage{4.10|4.11|…|4.39|4.40}V4.35VLiIo4.35 CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|4.08|4.09|…|4.32|4.33}VOFFLiIo4.35 STORAGE voltage{3.75|3.76|…|4.09|4.10}V 3.90VLiIo4.35 DISCHARGE cut-off{2.65|2.66|…|3.74|3.75}V3.30VLiFe CHARGE target voltage{3.40|3.41|…|3.64|3.65}V3.60VLiFe CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|3.38|3.39|…|3.57|3.58}VOFFLiFe STORAGE voltage{3.15|3.16|…|3.39|3.40}V 3.30VLiFe DISCHARGE cut-off{2.00|2.01|…|3.14|3.15}V2.90VLTO CHARGE target voltage
{2.60|2.61|…|2.89|2.90}V ? 
2.85V ? LTO CHARGE restart voltage
{OFF|2.58|2.59|…|2.82|2.83}V ?
OFF
LTO STORAGE voltage
{2.25|2.26|…|2.59|2.60}V ? 2.40V ?LTO DISCHARGE cut-off
{1.50|1.51|…|2.24|2.25}V ? 1.80V ? 


hehe. this thread seems to motivate longtime lurkers to (finally) post something (again). hh


----------



## dfacex

> Do you have a battery manufacturer's full datasheet PDF?


Here it is:
http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/7472.pdf

Based on datasheet, my calculations would be:


*Lithium voltage option
**{admissible voltage range}
**Default
*LTO CHARGE target voltage{2.65|2.66|…|2.89|2.90}V2.85VLTO CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|2.63|2.64|…|2.82|2.83}VOFFLTO STORAGE voltage{1.90|1.91|…|2.16|2.17}V 
2.04VLTO DISCHARGE cut-off{1.50|1.51|…|3.64|3.65}V1.80V








P.S.
BTW I found out, that Sony VTC6 Cut Off Voltage is 2.0V, but why it's not possible to set this value on mc3k?
Datasheet:
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/sony_us18650vtc6-2.pdf


----------



## dfacex

Sorry, Can't edit my post... in DISCHARGE cut-off i made a little typo



> {1.50|1.51|…|3.64|3.65}V



must be
{1.50|1.51|…|2.64|2.65}V


----------



## kreisl

dfacex said:


> my calculations would be:
> 
> 
> *Lithium voltage option
> **{admissible voltage range}
> **Default
> *LTO CHARGE target voltage{2.65|2.66|…|2.89|2.90}V2.85VLTO CHARGE restart voltage{OFF|2.63|2.64|…|2.82|2.83}VOFFLTO STORAGE voltage{1.90|1.91|…|2.16|2.17}V
> 2.04VLTO DISCHARGE cut-off{1.50|1.51|…|2.64|2.65}V1.80V


Great 2 pdf's and thanks for your voltage range suggestion! I think you got Storage and Discharge wrong, they are not following the original scheme. According to the Design Spec the original scheme be that 
CHARGE ∩ STORAGE ∩ DISCHARGE = Ø
So how about the following set? Should be error-free now:


*Lithium voltage option**{admissible voltage range}
**Default
*LTO CHARGE target voltage
{2.60|2.61|…|2.89|2.90}V 
2.85V LTO CHARGE restart voltage
{OFF|2.58|2.59|…|2.82|2.83}V
OFFLTO STORAGE voltage
{2.25|2.26|…|2.59|2.60}V 
2.40VLTO DISCHARGE cut-off
{1.50|1.51|…|2.24|2.25}V 1.80V 


Oh that Sony VTC6 performs exceptional! oo: It will be no problem to lower the lower bound to 2.50V in the firmware, thanks for the pointer, appreciated. 
lovecpf

LTO has been noted in de list, and i would expect this and the 2.50V change to be included in the next firmware update release. But please don't hold your breath, it could take months before the small batch of new k#'s gets processed, finally. the batch must be sizable to make their work time worthwhile or sum ting.


----------



## dfacex

> I think you got Storage and Discharge wrong


Yep, you are right about scheme, i missed that point.

Now it looks good, thanks!


----------



## OttaMattaPia

Odd occurrence today with the MC3K and DEX.....

Refreshing an INR 18650 3000mAh Samsung 30Q...but it got stuck on the first discharge cycle....

Program set to .7A discharge current
Cutoff voltage at 3.0v
*
For reasons I can't discover, the charger went to 0.0A discharge current when the battery was at 3.1v and never recovered.*

That caused it to "hang" (because it could never reach 3.0v if there was zero discharge current)...and so it sat for an hour at 3.1v until I noticed....which is not good to leave batteries that far discharged for long so I was a bit disappointed with the charger. I'm not certain, but my guess would be that the charger failed to account for the rebound voltage after the discharge load was removed.

*Here is the log entry where it went from 3.1v to 3.0v after about 4.5 hours....*
00:16.277 / 3.00 / -0.7 / 2766 / 2.1 / 10.2 / 27.7 / 24 / 41.6

*Here is the log entry where the discharge current dropped to zero.....**...about 3 minutes and 45 seconds later.....*
00:16.501 / 3.00 / 0.0 / 2809 / 1.3 / 10.3 / 27.7 / 24 / 39.8
*
Then the battery voltage rebounded back up to 3.1v.....only 36 seconds later...(probably because the discharge load was removed)*
00:16.537 / 3.10 / 0.0 / 2809 / 0 / 10.3 / 27.6 / 24 / 38.5
*
And almost an hour later......still at 3.1v....and 0 current (stuck forever!)*
00:19.711 / 3.10 / 0.0 / 2809 / 0 / 10.3 / 25.7 / 24 / 26



Here were the program parameters....


Battery Type: *LiIo* 
Mode: *Refresh* 
Capacity:*3000* 
Charge Current: *1.0A* 
Discharge Current: *.7A* 
Charge Cut Voltage: *4.2* 
Discharge Cut Voltage: *3.0* 
Charge Cut Current: *0.1* 
Discharge Cut Current: *0.5* 
Cut Temp: *45C* 
Cut Time: *OFF* 
 
The Temp never exceeded 42C for the system or 29C for the batteries

*Anyone have any idea why it did this and how to avoid it?*

Thanks


----------



## kreisl

your log says "3.0V", so the charger reached cut-off voltage -you set it to 3.0V didnt you- and current dropped to "0.0A". sounds legit to me!

what symbol are you seeing in TOV when the current is 0.0A? the symbol indicates the operation mode and or the routine, in which the charger currently is.


----------



## OttaMattaPia

kreisl said:


> your log says "3.0V", so the charger reached cut-off voltage -you set it to 3.0V didnt you- and current dropped to "0.0A". sounds legit to me!
> what symbol are you seeing in TOV when the current is 0.0A? the symbol indicates the operation mode and or the routine, in which the charger currently is.



I could understand that if it was in Discharge mode. But it wasn't. That's my concern.
It was in Refresh mode as I said above, and it essentially left the batteries discharged.

IIRC, it showed the up/down arrow and was in Refresh mode.
I wasn't expecting the charger to leave the battery dead. I was expecting it to Charge > Discharge > Charge and then leave it fully topped off. Isn't that Refresh operation?

The only possible explanation I can think of is IF the rest period between the charge and discharge or discharge and charge is a full hour. And I don't think it is.

If that is not the explanation, then it could be a firmware bug.


----------



## kreisl

OttaMattaPia said:


> haha.....I see what you did there ;-)


----------



## OttaMattaPia

kreisl said:


> How can we know how long the rest period is? It should be noted somewhere in the manual me thinks, did you check?




haha.....I see what you did there ;-)

Thanks!

Definitely a learning curve for an old goat like me.


----------



## dfacex

Can we hook to MC3000's one of the battery channels, something similar to this universal external cellphone battery charger dock cradle? Will it charge discharge cellphone batteries without problems? Any specific parameters needed? Someone tried to charge, test phone batteries with mc3000?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...for-Smartphone-Drop-Shipping/32742006874.html


----------



## kreisl

> *Testing smartphone batteries*
> 
> Started by kreisl, 01-10-2016 02:41 PM








Yes you could misuse the AX thing as holder for your smartphone battery. You'd still need to wire up its cable to the positive and the negative terminals of the mc3k slot. :huh:

( for smartphone batteries there is imho no advantage of misusing the mc3k instead of a hobby charger like IMAX B6 other than for better accuracy and graphing capability. i don't do it anymore because all new premium-like phones with metal or glass housing have built-in batteries and one would have to break the sealing of the smartphone screen to get to the battery. me not likey. )


----------



## dfacex

Oh, Thank you kreisl for quick and helpful response!


----------



## Nev

If it charges by usb ,you can charge it with a drok or similar usb tester inline to get mha put into the battery , that's what I do to my iPhone & iPad. 
I also do it when charging my led lenser H7.2 , from empty it shows virtually the mha that's it's suppose to have (1400) Same with phone , it shows about 2000 mha short of the speck iPad mha but it is a few years old now.


----------



## HighLight

ElectroPulse said:


> Did some Googling, and found it.
> 
> Two codes (sounds like either work, I used the top one) - 12% off, for use on Gearbest.com:
> GB17LED
> GBCHS
> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2844265-SKYRC-MC3000-Charger-(-79-19)
> 
> Just ordered one myself  (included free 3-7 day shipping :rock



Just ordered the MC3000 from GearBest using the top code and saved 12%.You have to register on the site first. Best price I can get here in Canada and it seems like free expedited shipping. Thanks for that code!


----------



## kreisl

(deleted)


----------



## HKJ

kreisl said:


> https://abload.de/img/2000pxemojiu1f623.svg8cprt.png




You obvious like price fixing.


----------



## Driftermickh

OK, have had the charger over 2 months now.
Use it most every day. This charger has more to
it than I need or use. But, I like it, works great.
I have to say this is a "serious" charger.

Drifter...


----------



## kreisl

dfacex said:


> Yep, you are right about scheme, i missed that point.
> 
> Now it looks good, thanks!



The *B*attery*S*pace.com offering is imo not usable because their LTO battery (lemme call it "*BS*18650LTO" ;-) seems to bear the positive and negative terminals on the same face side, not on opposite sides. It would not be possible to insert the BS18650LTO in a slot of mc3k charger. Batteryspace.com is herewith excluded as battery supplier.

There is an Alibaba supplier, actually it is a factory, who sells their 18650 LTO model, the TK18650LTO, only in boxes of 100pcs and they don't have any spares or samples can you believe it. Due to wtf cost reasons(?) they _really _don't sell samples taken out of those boxes, which is a pity. I asked sky, while they are willing to implement LTO support in mc3k firmware, they cannot get any TK18650LTO samples for testing from them, which is why the LTO implementation project remains on hold for the time being. If anyone can donate proper 18650 LTO samples, such as the TK18650LTO model (are there any other proper 18650 on the market?), the project will get going, promised. 

No donations.

No promises.







Thanks Drifter for the honest kind words, i'll let sky know! :wave:


----------



## scooter3n

kreisl, i would like to buy the latest build MC3000 with the latest firmware already installed from a US seller. Do you have any recommendations? Also, I have a question: can I download the firmware update, unpack the .rar, which I assume will be a .exe, load it onto a USB drive, put the thumb drive in the MC3000 and invoke the update from the menus? I do not have a Windows box in the house.


----------



## kreisl

hello scooter3n, 
re your second question sounds wild and great but i don't think that this possibility will ever come on a consumer-grade niche charger. i would cheer and applaud to whomever develops such kind of a dreamcharger (Xstar? Enova? Efst? Mah? Littokala? Pspower? Skyr? Jusni?). Tbh i didn't think of this possibility at the time of Design Spec what 4yr ago, my bad, lack of imagination hh. Back den i had other things in mind, the charger was to be generously sized, have nicer resolution/accuracy than a 100US$ iCharger but not take itself overly dry seriously, be fun with powerbanking, pong, languages and games, and stand out in some way, notably so. i had stretched it with pong and powerbanking, and we still have nada but 1 language in the UI a shame. if i had requested your feature at that time, who knows maybe our mc3k as we know it today would have that feature… sorry. maybe a **cker can open up the firmware with another patch and open the usb port for file system interpretation 
re your first question, sorry again, i have no insight or knowledge about inventory of US sellers, it's the tru. @ElectroPulse, @HighLight, which firmware version did your Gearbest mc3k come with? 


i don't like price fixing on flashlights, and GB is beyond **** and *** with their steep discount coupons :devil:, a Lumintop Tool Ti for 25US$? omg!!


----------



## dfacex

kreisl said:


> There is an Alibaba supplier...



Here i found another Alibaba supplier with min. 20pcs order
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/lithium-Titanate-battery-2-2V-18650_60470658043.html

and

GSL ENERGY GROUP LTD sells proper 18650 cells
http://gsl-energy.com/content/?1207.html

...also researching LTO's i found one person who owns kind of little different type of these cells with super fast 15C charge rate. There on forums he say something about willing to sell those cells, maybe he could send sample?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27750






Sorry, that's all i was able to help you with that..


----------



## scooter3n

150+ page thread spanning a couple years made me think that maybe this product might be for me  especially after viewing assembly and disassembly videos of early and later iterations. I particularly like the redesign to the spring posts because I have no intention of going inside and trying to reconnect the Springs to the posts in the blind... to put an exclamation point on my shaking head, this morning I watched a Fluke video on how to clean the contacts to their 87V's LED panels in the field if you don't have time to send it in; a great example of elegant engineering.

Wow, only an English ui... 

I finally found a recommendation on cpf in another thread for Robert Negely, [email protected], 916-405-0183, who reports having the latest builds of the MC3000 as well as the most recent firmware, and offers a cpf discount and 30 days against DOA. I will run it in dummy mode for the kids for now, and then as I learn things useful I will teach them.


----------



## tjh

*New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

Hi,

I see SkyRC have released new versions of the MC30000 monitor program for Windows PCs.
Those will small laptop screens will *finally rejoice* as the 720p version is much smaller and should fit on almost any Windows PC screen.

Thanks, SkyRC!


----------



## Snotgople

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

I got a MC3000 recently. Wondering why the place for the sticker on the bottom, isn't recessed like it is, on the pictures on page 119.??


----------



## kreisl

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*



Snotgople said:


> I got a MC3000 recently. Wondering why the place for the sticker on the bottom, isn't recessed like it is, on the pictures on page 119.??


What does FW Version and HW Version says?


----------



## Snotgople

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*



kreisl said:


> What does FW Version and HW Version says?


FW was 1.10, I updated it to 1.18 - HW says 1.3+ Got it from nkon.nl...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

as mentioned earlier, i have no knowledge about vendors' inventories. i can only comment:
- 1.10 FW is from June , HW 1.3+ is 1.4 , so that looks all good uptodate
- when they started the big batch in June, there must have been remaining prior inventory of old bottom case revision which then got used up before the new case halves got phased in during the assembly. a bottom case half with non-recessed label sticker is the older revision but it does not automatically mean that the upper case half is the older revision too.

at this point i will still assume that your upper case half is the updated revision 

if i were you, you knew what i would do, now :devil:


----------



## Snotgople

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

Ok, thanks for answering. I'm not good at guessing, can you tell me what you would do? Take it apart to check the inside??


----------



## kreisl

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

I would


----------



## Snotgople

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

What should I check specifically, if I take it apart? I guess the screws are hidden under the rubberfeets??


----------



## kreisl

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

Six screws. 

Six.

Not four. Don't forget.

Yes, you can find some screw under rubberfott?

No need to disassemble completely. Just check carefully if the upper case is the one that you were after?


----------



## Snotgople

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

Everything looks fine, the upper case is the good reinforced version with bigger screw holes, and the back of the LCD is green. PCB is printed with 2016-01-13 V. 1.5 - in fact everything is similar to your pics on page 119, except for one thing: the cooling fins are horizontal, not vertical! I'm wondering why..??


----------



## kreisl

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*



Snotgople said:


> except for one thing: the cooling fins are horizontal, not vertical! I'm wondering why..??



i did not assign a number to my horizontal cooling fins. maybe you can read the passage with the photo again and understand


----------



## cpa

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*



Snotgople said:


> FW was 1.10,* I updated it to 1.18* - HW says 1.3+ Got it from nkon.nl...



Firmware 1.18??... have I missed anything??... or Is it just a typo??


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Version of MC3000 Monitor*

I decided to try one of these out. Got it from Gearbest. Without having to read the entire thread, I ended up with hardware 1.3 (no plus) 

What hardware improvements did I not get? Did I get the crappy sliders/springs?


----------



## gyzmo2002

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi Kreisl, I ended up replacing my old case (first batch charger). My last 3 plastic pins ended up breaking after leaving my batteries 24 hours in the charger. Just to warn that the 6 inserts of the new top case are a little bigger than the old ones. The holes in the board must be slightly enlarged. I do not know if that was mentioned before. In 30 minutes, the work was finished. No other "problem" with this charger that I use daily since december 2015. No problem with the second one bought last summer(new plastic case).🙂


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



gyzmo2002 said:


> (first batch charger). My last 3 plastic pins ended up breaking


The f*c* that poor material units left the factory was a real shame imo. afaik the engineer responsible for the design and supplier's sample approval of the pin construction was let go last year. For sky reputation and consumers' satisfaction/trust the most advisable procedure in early 2016 would have been a recall of the early batch chargers. however in the end such are business decisions, economic decisions, and based on the unpredictability of future. nobody wants to be responsible for decisions which he might regret later. actually this is one of my personal foremost credos: "_Don't do anything which you are going to regret later!_" — ©kreisl. i certainly feel sorry for those early adopters whose joy was diminished by the breaking of some pins at some point.

On the other hand, warranty took care of claimed cases. 

@BVH , you got the latest revision, don't worry. You did not get the ****** plastic pins. Why buy from Gearbest? Support the local dealers, i would say!


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The NiZn support of the MC3000 just became a bit more relevant.
Heres a part of the article published on engadget:

"The Navy, the airline industry and Samsung all have a major problem with lithium-ion batteries. Specifically, they tend to catch fire more than most people would like. But that could change soon thanks to a new breakthrough from the US Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) that allows for safe, rechargeable nickel-zinc batteries with a similar performance to Li-ion cells, but without all the flames."

"Although there's no timeline yet for a commercial product, the NRL says their research is complete and the 3D zinc sponge technology is "ready to be deployed within the entire family of Zn-based alkaline batteries" in both military and civilian applications."

and a link to the article - https://www.engadget.com/2017/04/27/the-navy-built-rechargeable-batteries-that-wont-explode-on-you/

Not clear when these newly developed batteries will become commercially available, but at least we will be ready for them when they hit the stores


----------



## kreisl

dfacex said:


> Sorry, that's all i was able to help you with that..



That has helped a lot of thanks. :naughty:

As it seems sky has ordered a bunch of lithium titanate 18650 batteries and received them by now. LTO battery packs are common enough in the industry but the cylindrical format was and still is a rarity.

LTO batteries have some extraordinary advantages, claims the BU. And the few Chinese factories which are invested in this battery type firmly believe in the future and success of it.

Implementing LTO in mc3k fw is now officially on the todo list, at floating position. Comes a new todo thing of higher priority, pushes aside the lto item on de list. I wanna promise that lto will be implemented soon enough (spring/sommer) but not right away only because sky got hold of a bunch.

With some patience i should get my hands filthy on a few pcs too. I would love to test the lto algorithm in the beta firmware. That's why i equipped myself with raspi and stuff. mc3k is going to be the first and *only *consumer market charger with lithium-titanate battery type support afaik! And even if most of us end consumers don't have any lto batteries at home, mc3k owners might find the lto BATT TYPE still useful for experimenting with overdischarged Lithium-Ion batteries.

@cpa , my alu cases got shipped, finally! No tracking number provided/purchased, i'll let myself be surprised by the incoming mail. More joy then i guess?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> The NiZn support of the MC3000 just became a bit more relevant.
> Heres a part of the article published on engadget:



Thanks for the news! Today SPIEGEL, the biggest and best geman serious news mag, also reported about it:
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/...te-lithium-ionen-akku-ersetzen-a-1145282.html


----------



## HighLight

kreisl said:


> [/URL]. @HighLight, which firmware version did your Gearbest mc3k come with?



Mine came with: HW Version 1.13 and FW Version 1.3

Is this the latest version? If not do you know what benefit I will get by updating to the most current version?


----------



## kreisl

HighLight said:


> Version 1.13



your is the latest
Your up-to-date

Period

Writing from my Xiaomi note4


----------



## cpa

kreisl said:


> @cpa , my alu cases got shipped, finally! No tracking number provided/purchased, i'll let myself be surprised by the incoming mail. More joy then i guess?


I've got mine already. It is a chinese one, but I am very happy with it... The temp is now about 35~38ºC at idle (7ºC less than before), and 60ºC compiling, for example. It's a very good result.


----------



## HighLight

I'm as far as page 67 of this thread so far but in the mean time can someone tell me what the suggested settings would be in advanced mode to do the refresh routine (c-d-c) and a regular charge of an Eneloop AAA and and Eneloop AA and also an Eneloop Pro AAA and Eneleoop Pro AAA ( if different then the regular Eneloops)? 

Suggested Charge settings-

Eneloop AA:
EneloopAAA:

Eneloop Pro AA:
Eneloop Pro AAA:

and suggested Refresh settings ( if different from above)-

Eneloop AA:
EneloopAAA:

Eneloop Pro AA:
Eneloop Pro AAA:

Just the parameters that have to be changed from what appears automatically is all that need to be listed. I'm sure that this information would be really helpful to people who have this charger and want to utilize its capabilities more so then they would get by using Dummy or Simple mode.


----------



## kreisl

HighLight said:


> I'm as far as page


No need to read this entire thread apart from historics or entertainment value. Best info is given in the manual.
For Eneloops the charger has time-saving optimal settings with the BATT TYPE ENELOOP. I wouldn't change anything.


----------



## ChibiM

How likely is it that this charger will get an updated version in the (near) future?


----------



## kreisl

They have started work on the Li-Titanate version, the near future is happening now, i think that's something!

Once completed, i think they should add it to the product webpage, the pdf manual, and the retail box, what do you think?


----------



## CyCle

Hello! Could you please help me ? I have a few* NiCd *batteries with 0 voltage on cell. I want to reanimate it, but* MC3000* shows _'no battery'_ due to *0 V*. Is it possible to put some voltage on a channel (I had *Maha Powerex MH-C9000* and there was_ engineer menu_ which allows to put *2A* in a slot (even if battery absolutely was discharged).Thanks!


----------



## DeJaVu

CyCle said:


> Hello! Could you please help me ? I have a few* NiCd *batteries with 0 voltage on cell. I want to reanimate it, but* MC3000* shows _'no battery'_ due to *0 V*. Is it possible to put some voltage on a channel (I had *Maha Powerex MH-C9000* and there was_ engineer menu_ which allows to put *2A* in a slot (even if battery absolutely was discharged).Thanks!


Just press and hold tge slot button untill the voltage rises.
Btw, i have a maha c9000 too, but didnt know about the engineering menu. How do you access it?


----------



## CyCle

DeJaVu said:


> Just press and hold tge slot button untill the voltage rises.
> Btw, i have a maha c9000 too, but didnt know about the engineering menu. How do you access it?


Push "Up" and hold it, next power up the charger and you will see standard test but after '9' the symbols will disappear and you will enter engineer menu. But be careful with it )


----------



## LiteTheWay

Will this just be a Firmware update - or a whole new hardware?




kreisl said:


> They have started work on the Li-Titanate version, the near future is happening now, i think that's something!
> 
> Once completed, i think they should add it to the product webpage, the pdf manual, and the retail box, what do you think?


----------



## ChibiM

Edit: misinterpreted the answers.


----------



## kreisl

just firmware .

that's all we need to have the latest version of dis charger .


----------



## Mr.Ampere

Hi folks, as a proud owner of à MC3000 charger, 
I want first to congratulate the very first contributors of this project...

This charger is really à must have for people who want to keep their cells in good conditions.

As a first contribution, i Will share my experience with DEX logging and configuration, not so easy as one could think...

See you soon, i have to go for diner (did I say I'm french :huh


----------



## Behemot

cdm191 said:


> Thank you all for the rapid responses.
> 
> The update was performed within a Windows 10 Enterprise OS running the official SkyRc software under a Windows 7 compatibility environment.
> 
> No issues were experienced prior to initiating the update routine.
> 
> The update was initiated by selecting the update firmware option (following detection of the new v.1.03 firmware) transitioning the screen to its blank state immediately. At this point the update was then observed to flag up an "err.2 start vector" roughly 10% into the process (~5seconds in), terminating the update routine. Re-starting the update proved to be unsuccessful.
> The USB hardware is now no longer identifiable (previously a Custom HID device) and power cycling does not recover the charger to its original state. A blank illuminated screen is all that remains regardless of whether powered through the USB port or DC mains.
> 
> I have e-mailed SkyRc and will post an update here in due course.
> 
> Once again, many thanks for the rapid responses.


Same thing, updating from 1.10 to latest, got error at 5 % and since than nothing.

While the HW is good (well besides the sparking when I connect the power brick), the SW support and documentation is somewhat worse. Their notice about "approved for XP SP3" is something, they may wake up and realize XP is kinda dead system. I used 7 even though I still have one machine with XP (but I won't be dragging this thing elsewhere to update FW and back!), even 7 is obsolete in 2017 according to most windblows fanatics, and they rely on XP? Rly? Anyway, nice, it really did not take long to screw this thing up.

Wonder how cdm191 solved that, but I guess I'll just take it back to store for replacement. Possibly ask the distributor to update the FW themselves, when it is so reliable, I just don't want to have anything in common with that.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

No no no.
I've posted in this thread before about how to recover from a bad flash, it's easy. I'm on mobile and can't find it now, but don't send it back!


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Found the post

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/4923550


----------



## ChibiM

kreisl said:


> just firmware .
> 
> that's all we need to have the latest version of dis charger .


Ok, gotcha. Thanks


----------



## CyCle

Have you seen new SkyRC D100 V2 charger ? https://www.banggood.com/SKYRC-D100...er-Power-Supply-p-1151156.html?rmmds=category It supports voice guide. I wonder, will be there MC3000 V2 with such feature ?)


----------



## Behemot

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Found the post
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/4923550


Ty, can try that. Tried googling some info but nohing so I expected there is no way. My comp was not detecting it and removing all USB devices would normaly be no go (mouse, anybody?). HOWEVER, since I have lots of HW testing around, just got one free MoBo on test with only PS/2 keyboard plugged in and Team installed so I can possibly access it remotely. Just hope the SW will run at all on XP x86-32 (2003 server kernel)


----------



## Behemot

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Seems like it worked, great. If I'll ever visit NZ, remind me to take you for a beer


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Great, good to hear!


----------



## Capolini

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

I heard another member say that OPUS makes this charger? Is that true?


----------



## tjh

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Capolini said:


> I heard another member say that OPUS makes this charger? Is that true?


No


----------



## Behemot

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

The SW really is poorly written, under 7 with increased DPI settings I got half of the settings window overflow where I can not see it cause the window size is static and can not be made larger (ehm). Gonna have to use it with some of the XP machines anyway for now. I've also learned from the distributor that I will need single computer for each charger as the SW can not handle more chargers simultanneously, that's not much advanced either. Well I don't neccessarily NEED the SW, can as well read the values from the display, it just appears to be easier to maintain.

And than they wrote me some talk about how this is for modelers so nobody will buy charger for 8+ cells which I told them to inquire from SkyRC. Well since there is no such advanced device for more than 4 cells, I would say somebody will bloody buy that as there would be no other option. But this is like barking on a tree…


----------



## Mr.Ampere

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

To kreisl :
On page 1, we can find this bug :
bug: NiMH "D>C, N=1" should report discharged capacity as "Cycle1" in SOV (UNCONFIRMED)

I think i can give you some explanations :
If the charge processus ends in a normal way ( delta peak for exemple) then the discharged capacity is reported as Cycle1.
But, if the charge ends in an abnormal way (for me, capacity cut), then discharged capacity is not reported at all.
The discharged capacity should be reported all the time.


----------



## kreisl

Dr. Mario said:


> LTO cells do exist, but is expensive, and hard to find. At least for now, as was the case with Li : FePO4 cells back in mid-2000s. I can wait though, as MC3000 is software upgradeable, as far as I know.



Are you still waiting? 





pretty epic


----------



## Mr.Ampere

*Re: SkyRC Â— IFA 2014 Â— MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Mr.Ampere said:


> As a first contribution, i Will share my experience with DEX logging and configuration, not so easy as one could think...



So, when I first installed DEX, some values were reported wrong (for example, the battery temperature was 270 instead of
27,0°C). Looking around in DEX, I found the "Device properties editor" window, and specifically the "Outlet-channel/Configuration" tab.
For example , choose the "slot1" tab, "Battery temperature" sub-tab :
- right clic on the "Statistics" sub-sub-tab, "Add Property Type" and the "Factor"
- you can then enter a value (0.1 in my case) and save all this...(SAVE button)

BUT, if you try to modify this for another slot, save it, and look at the first slot again, the parameter previously saved is missing ! A bug in the saving process I guess...

So, what you can do is editing the file in an appropriate editor, such as NOTEPAD++ (freeware) :
1. go to C:\Users\<yourname>\AppData\Roaming\DataExplorer\Devices
2. do a backup of "MC3000.xml" and "MC3000-Set.xml"
3. do a copy of "MC3000.xml" => "MC3000-MYSETTINGS.xml"
4. edith the "MC3000-MYSETTINGS.xml" file with NOTEPAD++
5. the xml file is self-explanatory :
in the "Device" section, modify the name of the device :<name implementation="gde.device.skyrc.MC3000">MC3000-mysettings</name>​ in the "Channel" section, adjust your parameters, for example for the battery temperature :<Measurement>​<name>BatteryTemperature</name>
<symbol>Tb</symbol>
<unit>°C</unit>
<active>true</active>
<statistics min="true" max="true" avg="false" sigma="false"/>
<property name="factor" value="0.1" type="Double" description="Correction for temperature slot1"/>​</Measurement>​ do the same for the 3 other slots, and maybe for other values you want to correct/adjust

6. save the file , and add the "read only" property to the file (sometimes, DEX try to modify the file even if you don't access the "Device properties editor" window).

7. then , in DEX, add your new configuration file with the "Device selection dialog" window...:naughty:


----------



## hahoo

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

is the max discharge still 1 amp for this unit, with latest firmware for lion batteries ?


----------



## HighLight

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Using "Simple" mode I set it up to do a charge under "Eneloop AA" to charge four Eneloop AA's and all were alarmingly warm upon completion of the charge cycle. I thought heat was the enemy of NIMH cells and I also thought this charger was programmed to take the very best care of my batteries. What gives?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Nice try

I should try again too

"Hello S.W. 17-05-31"


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HighLight said:


> Using "Simple" mode I set it up to do a charge under "Eneloop AA" to charge four Eneloop AA's and all were alarmingly warm upon completion of the charge cycle. I thought heat was the enemy of NIMH cells and I also thought this charger was programmed to take the very best care of my batteries. What gives?


Charging with -dv/dt will warm the batteries. If you want super cool cells that aren't fully charged, terminate on 1.48v.

The charger is designed to be as flexible as possible... Not to baby your cells. Most people agree that a slight warming caused by -dv/dt isn't a problem long term anyway, but if you're paranoid about your cells this charger gives the power to trickle them along as cool as a cucumber if you want.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I should try again too


@HighLight, sorry i misread your post. I thought that your were talking about the "Dummy" mode. So today i tested the Dummy UI Mode. The Eneloop AA's stayed cool as **** for the entire time. No wonder, because since FW1.10 or so the charger uses the MH-C9000 algorithm to terminate the Eneloop charging which is a very conservative way of charging. Hence my advice, if you're worried about cell temperature and don't want to fiddle with settings, you can use MH-C9000 or the MC3000 Dummy mode.

:thumbsup:


----------



## dfacex

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

What you think about these 1.5v Li-ion AA rechargeable batteries? I guess this dreamcharger can't handle those.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H0H6K2C/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

edit: I'm 100% wrong, see below.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Not currently, but if they became really popular a simple firmware update and they would be supported.



No, they require a special designed connection in the charger.
Actual charging algorithm is normal LiIon.

I have taken a look at the older generation: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Kentli AA 2800mWh (Blue) UK.html


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> No, they require a special designed connection in the charger.
> Actual charging algorithm is normal LiIon.
> 
> I have taken a look at the older generation: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Kentli AA 2800mWh (Blue) UK.html



Thank you, I stand 100% corrected and feel suitably silly


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

maybe this is the official website for end consumer? -> http://www.unbatteries.com/
i am guessing that one could build a DIY adapter for this exotic battery in mc3k slot, similar to the Kentli charger's positive terminal:






_(photo credit HKJ)

_​Today i am testing FW1.14beta with DEXbeta, the LTO got implemented just fine in either software, debugging now. Since _i_ have no real LTO battery, i made a substitute sufficient for the sake of testing the codes lol :













( project history: pic1, pic2, pic3, pic4, pic5, pic6 )

2xAA is about in the voltage range of LTO. Not my idea, so plz don't hit me


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Today i am testing FW1.14beta



If new firmware is in the works, how about they make the program shortcuts(currently UP+SNB) usable while theyre at it.
Big issue with using the shortcuts, is that if you already have 1 battery charging you cant use them because pressing up or down takes you to DDV(voltage + temp graphs).
Either priority can be used, say if any slot in READY state then pressing UP or DOWN doesnt activate DDV, or make DDV a longpress command on UP or DOWN. 

Also at the moment you can only program 4 shortcuts, make that 8 by adding the DOWN+SNB.Easier to make full use of the function if youre using more than 1 chemistry. That DOWN+SNB combination sitting unused for very long, time to get it in the game


----------



## dfacex

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> i am guessing that one could build a DIY adapter for this exotic battery in mc3k slot, similar to the Kentli charger's positive terminal:



I thought the same, thanks for pointing that out.

Great to see huge progress on LTO chem support implementing!


----------



## ArmaBene

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Another idea I'm thinking about is related to calibration and voltage measurement.
Currently only one value both for voltage and current is used for calibration and so the charger simply scales the readouts according to the computed calibration factors.
But to take care of voltage offset issues, if feasible, the charger could enable an advanced voltage calibration to compute both an offset and a scaling factor to improve voltage measurement. Obviously the user will have to use two different cells to be able to calibrate at 2 corresponding voltages (and not too close one to the other to have a better offset estimation).
What do you think about this idea?


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> If new firmware is in the works, how about they make the program shortcuts(currently UP+SNB) usable while theyre at it. Big issue with using the shortcuts, is that if you already have 1 battery charging you cant use them because pressing up or down takes you to DDV(voltage + temp graphs). Either priority can be used, say if any slot in READY state then pressing UP or DOWN doesnt activate DDV, or make DDV a longpress command on UP or DOWN. Also at the moment you can only program 4 shortcuts, make that 8 by adding the DOWN+SNB.Easier to make full use of the function if youre using more than 1 chemistry. That DOWN+SNB combination sitting unused for very long, time to get it in the game


Hello DeJaVu, the <UP+SNB> works also when a slot is charging 1 battery. For example [11] be assigned to <UP+SNB1> and the charger status be:
#1 [01] busy; #2 [02] empty; #3 [03] ready; #4 [01] empty.​ Now *hit *the <UP+SNB#1>-keys at the very same time. For this, I recommend using <index+middle>-fingers of your right hand if you're a righty; this would be 1 double note with fingering (2 3). Hit crisply, don't press. Similar to wrist staccato. If the two keys don't get registered at the vely same moment, then yes you will end up in DDV . Today I wanted to shoot a short video demonstrating my staccato of the double note but these days i am too busy watching roland garros sorry . Anywho i've tested it and the new charger status becomes:
#1 [01] busy; #2 [11] empty; #3 [11] ready; #4 [11] empty.​ In fact, #1 does really _not _get overwritten. So when you long-press <STOP> now, the status becomes:
#1 [01] ready; #2 [11] empty; #3 [11] ready; #4 [11] empty.​ 
This behavior is *correct *and as intended by 🐿️
( If you find a written description of <UP+SNB> which differs from this example, then you found something wrong 🤐 )
(( The reason why there is little time tolerance for the double key pressing is of technical nature and can't be helped. Just saying, these common switches are not designed to be pressed at the same time. Think of the rubber buttons on any handheld DMM, and try to press two of them at the same time as normal operation; so DMM designers don't program double key presses as normal operations of the UI. Switches/keys for this purpose do exist though 🤑, they are made in gemani ))



> Also at the moment you can only program 4 shortcuts, make that 8 by adding the DOWN+SNB.Easier to make full use of the function if youre using more than 1 chemistry. That DOWN+SNB combination sitting unused for very long, time to get it in the game


8? 😶
OIC 
No promises when we get your 8 but i am seconding it. Good call! 
If anyone has another suitable suggestion for DOWN+SNB, please let us know thanks appreciated! Otherwise we'll do the 8 np. 😝


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Hello DeJaVu, the <UP+SNB> works also when a slot is charging 1 battery. For example [11] be assigned to <UP+SNB1> and the charger status be:#1 [01] busy; #2 [02] empty; #3 [03] ready; #4 [01] empty.​ Now *hit *the <UP+SNB#1>-keys at the very same time.


God damnit, it was working all this time......... 
When there is no busy slots, then you can press UP+SNB sequentially and it works.Because of that it seemed to me that it isnt working when there are busy slots, as sequential pressing would always land me in DDV.
Im glad to find out after all this time that it actually works , but still it would be nice from usability perspective, to add slight delay to DDV, like 1second or so.
With the current configuration you can still miss-click and dont get the desired effect which is somewhat frustrating.
DDV longpress = happy program shortcut users 




kreisl said:


> 8? 😶
> OIC
> No promises when we get your 8 but i am seconding it. Good call!
> If anyone has another suitable suggestion for DOWN+SNB, please let us know thanks appreciated! Otherwise we'll do the 8 np. 😝


Yeah it would be nice addition.Personally i would use 4 for Li-Ion and 4 for Ni-Mh as those are the most common chemistries i use, and at the moment 4 are just not enough to cover most popular battery sizes.Im sure other people would tailor it to their specific needs.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> but still it would be nice from usability perspective, to add slight delay to DDV, like 1second or so.
> With the current configuration you can still miss-click and dont get the desired effect which is somewhat frustrating.
> DDV longpress = happy program shortcut users


i've added your 2 suggestions to de list. you might see them as improvements but imho the longpress-for-DDV is a toss. by now i am firmly used to shortclick-for-DDV (and i certainly enjoy hitting the charger) as detailed in all the documentation (MANUAL, CHEAT SHEET). I'd rather agree with the 8 memories but this would entail changes in both the manual and cheat sheet too. from what i can tell, from now on it will take longer and longer until we see such minor fine-tunings finally accepted and realized. the folks prefer to wait and collect more suggestions or more substantial ones, before they finally agree that altogether the changes are warranted in 1 batch job.

well, your fine-tune suggestions are on the list, and they will be seriously considered and eventually implemented. 

at some point 😉

your attention to detail is appreciated, thanks so much!! :kiss:


----------



## ArmaBene

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I'd prefer measurement and charge profiles improvements (if possible) rather than changes limited to the user interface...
Anyway the simple fact that the charger development is still in progress makes me really happy. :thumbsup:


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

well, _we _the community are developing.
_they _only do the implementation :thumbsup:
that's how i sees it


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> well, _we _the community are developing.
> _they _only do the implementation :thumbsup:
> that's how i sees it




Kreisl

A guy on BLT has a problem with his MC3000, He says the battery sliders are hard to move, Other members are sugesting lubricating them, I recommended to checked with you first.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54703

John.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks John. The slider slides on top of the rail. _On top_. So there can't be anything holding the slider back from its movement and the sliding movement should feel natural and unimpeded. I could think of 3 tings:
1) the spring gets caught somewhere inside, maybe at the edge of the PCB. This would create a scratchy sound.
2) the tip of the spring is not seated in the middle of the slit of the rail. This would create a scratchy sound too.
3) the bottom edges of the slider are not rounded off, the burr(s) scratch along the rail. This would scratch up the rail.

While the production line worker found the sliding behavior of a particular unit within the acceptable tolerance band, QC passed!, a very critical end consumer might prefer natural unimpeded sliding as on my sample.

I am a critical end consumer, so i checked 1) 2) 3) to pass my own QC. Personally i don't recommend the use of Deoxit Gold or other grease on the rails. In the end grease only catches dust/smoke/debris and things get dirtier i guess.

hope this helpz


----------



## kreisl

cpa said:


> I've got mine already. It is a chinese one, but I am very happy with it... The temp is now about 35~38ºC at idle (7ºC less than before), and 60ºC compiling, for example. It's a very good result.


mine idles around 40~44ºC and reaches 50~61ºC depending on the external setup. i am so pleased with it 😚 that i did a quick review:
Review: Raspberry Pi aluminum case assembly, mod & thermal test


----------



## ArmaBene

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ArmaBene said:


> Another idea I'm thinking about is related to calibration and voltage measurement.
> Currently only one value both for voltage and current is used for calibration and so the charger simply scales the readouts according to the computed calibration factors.
> But to take care of voltage offset issues, if feasible, the charger could enable an advanced voltage calibration to compute both an offset and a scaling factor to improve voltage measurement. Obviously the user will have to use two different cells to be able to calibrate at 2 corresponding voltages (and not too close one to the other to have a better offset estimation).
> What do you think about this idea?


Completely ignored??


----------



## T_zero

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

what are the differences between the MC3000 and the NC2600?


----------



## ChibiM

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*

NC2600 is the Lithium-ion-less version. Should be for nimh and nicd only.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ArmaBene said:


> Completely ignored??


sorry, i couldn't understand the need for two point calibration.

someone published a video showing how offset the voltage (and amperage) is, what do you think, further calibration needed? :thinking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjSQAQIQlv8


----------



## SweD

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Quick question regarding semantics. In terms of "calibration" using a reference source, isn't that completely different to "adjustment"? In my mind, calibration is about keeping track of an instrument's drift over time, to ensure a reliable confidence level in its readout. Once adjusted, with new settings, there's really no way of knowing the accuracy one week further on, sort of back to square one when the history is lost?

Just thinking out loud, no expert in the matter.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



SweD said:


> Quick question regarding semantics. In terms of "calibration" using a reference source, isn't that completely different to "adjustment"? In my mind, calibration is about keeping track of an instrument's drift over time, to ensure a reliable confidence level in its readout. Once adjusted, with new settings, there's really no way of knowing the accuracy one week further on, sort of back to square one when the history is lost?



Modern equipment is adjusted in software, the internal reference is not affected. I.e. if you know how fast something changes, you will still know it after an adjustment.

Usual people that works with calibrated equipment use the work calibration about a verification, most other people uses calibration about a adjustment.


----------



## pgogborn

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> <snip>
> PCLS exports your session to *.BMP/*.CSV.



Before moving on to DataExplorer I wanted to understand PCLS. 

I have exported a session to *.BMP using the Save button, I also want to export to *.CSV but the pull down menu Save button only gives BMP(*.bmp) as a "Save as type". 

My Google-fu has failed me - is there something wrong with my Save button or am I looking in the wrong place?

Firmware 1.10, Monitor 1.03, Windows 10 64-bit


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



pgogborn said:


> I also want to export to *.CSV but the pull down menu Save button only gives BMP(*.bmp) as a "Save as type".
> 
> My Google-fu has failed me - is there something wrong with my Save button or am I looking in the wrong place?
> 
> Firmware 1.10, Monitor 1.03, Windows 10 64-bit


Welcome to the forum! 
I can't speak for Win10 64bit, sorry i use WinXP . Afaik PCLS was developed years back in a XP developer's environment. And under XP the PCLS automatically dumps BMP and CSV together at the same time in the same Save location. Same thing on _my _Win7, 2 files in the same Save folder; other Win7 systems may exhibit differing behavior. It is correct that one can only choose BMP as Save As, but as just said the software actually produces BMP and CSV in a bundle. This has historical reasons 

I will assume that your PCLS dumped a CSV too. Somewhere. Maybe you can perform a file search on your Win10 PC looking for *.CSV files? Then please let us know in which location, which folder on your HDD you found the CSV.

Personally i can't envision PCLS1.03 getting a major update in near/distant future like a "PCLS2.0" or something. If users encounter critical bugs in PCLS1.03, sure we would see a minor update/fix (PCLS1.04). But word is that the developers themselves have switched to using and enjoying DEX instead. For quick fast logging i find PCLS helpful; in fact PCLS played an important role in the debugging of mc3k FW. Ambitious data recording should always be carried out with DEX. Imho.


----------



## ArmaBene

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> someone published a video showing how offset the voltage (and amperage) is, what do you think, further calibration needed? :thinking:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjSQAQIQlv8


I didn't test on my unit; according to the video there are no offset issues and scaling voltage readouts (thanks to one point calibration) makes it working as expected... :thumbsup:
I'll test my unit and I'll let you know...


----------



## ArmaBene

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> someone published a video showing how offset the voltage (and amperage) is, what do you think, further calibration needed? :thinking:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjSQAQIQlv8


I didn't test on my unit; according to the video there are no offset issues and scaling voltage readouts (thanks to one point calibration) makes it working as expected... :thumbsup:
I'll test my unit and I'll let you know...


----------



## pgogborn

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> I will assume that your PCLS dumped a CSV too. Somewhere. Maybe you can perform a file search on your Win10 PC looking for *.CSV files? Then please let us know in which location, which folder on your HDD you found the CSV.


kreisl, thank you for your prompt and detailed reply.

I found it in my _Download_ folder. One of the things that confused me is the BMP was dumped to a different folder -_ My Documents_.



kreisl said:


> Personally i can't envision PCLS1.03 getting a major update in near/distant future like a "PCLS2.0" or something.


I see no reason for a update to PCLS. But if I lived in a perfect world not the real word I would like to see a few tweaks to the Bluetooth interfaces.

In the Android app I can delete a program, I can't seem to do it in the iPhone one.
In the iPhone app I can save a program so that it applies to more than one slot, I can't seem to do it on the Android one.
I like the graphics - but I would prefer it if the Android graphic for a battery in the _Details_ display did not have an AAA label (the iPhone graphic does not have a label).



kreisl said:


> Ambitious data recording should always be carried out with DEX. Imho.


I love data - which is why I loved your detailed reply. I will definitely be using DEX in the future.

I wanted to get PCLS1.03 working before I added complexity. Later I am going to try using a different computer and connection but at the moment I can't get PCLS1.03 do a firmware upgrade - I get a no connection to the Internet message - in this thread it has been mentioned the message came up when a firmware upgrade was withdrawn but I am assuming I have got a different problem.


----------



## Late2Dgame

In my first post, which hasn't appeared yet, to this thread I gave a brief explanation of where I'm coming from - - that being I've never owned or used a stand alone charger for charging rechargeable batteries. So please bear with me as I attempt to get up to speed w.r.t. this field.

My first question (actually 2nd question, my 1st question was in my original post) has to do with how much energy (power) is required to charge a set of 4 batteries and how long it would take. 

Specifically I'm looking at what would be involved with using solar panels as an energy source (using an inverter) for the MC3000. 

If anyone has already ran the numbers and was willing to share them, I'd be most grateful. If no one has that information I'm going to have to take baby steps in order to plow through this.

My first baby step question would be to start with the MC3000: if one was charging 4 batteries that required the most energy (because of their capacity) how much energy would it take to charge them fully and how much time is required to do this? This would be assuming the batteries we're talking about would be on the MC3000 list; the MC3000 was plugged into the wall and the recommended charging rate, etc. was used. 

I'm asking about this because I've never done this sort of calculation and I'm concerned that I could make a costly mistake.

Thanks


----------



## kreisl

Tell us which exact battery you want to charge?

32700?


----------



## HKJ

Late2Dgame said:


> My first baby step question would be to start with the MC3000: if one was charging 4 batteries that required the most energy (because of their capacity) how much energy would it take to charge them fully and how much time is required to do this? This would be assuming the batteries we're talking about would be on the MC3000 list; the MC3000 was plugged into the wall and the recommended charging rate, etc. was used.



There are a lot of factors:
The mains power supply would probably on have an efficiency around 70%
The charger may be 50% (A rough guess), but it will depend on the actual battery type and selected charge current
The charger will continue to use power when the battery is full

To get good efficiency you will need a simple charger and run it directly from the solar panel/batteries.


----------



## carnage

@ HKJ I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if its been mention, Do you know if the issue have been fixed with the MC3000?


----------



## HKJ

carnage said:


> @ HKJ I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if its been mention, Do you know if the issue have been fixed with the MC3000?



What issues? Lot of stuff has been fixed/improved.
There has been two mechanical improvements, everything else could be done with a software update.
The two mechanical improvements was:
Cooling was not enough to handle full discharge current on all four channels, turning fan around fixed it.
The plastic mounting for the slider often broke, the mold has been changed to make it more robust.

There is one detail left: The metal of the sliders are a bit soft, i.e. if you press back on the top of the slider they may bend (The are easy to bend back again).


----------



## carnage

HKJ said:


> What issues? Lot of stuff has been fixed/improved.
> There has been two mechanical improvements, everything else could be done with a software update.
> The two mechanical improvements was:
> Cooling was not enough to handle full discharge current on all four channels, turning fan around fixed it.
> The plastic mounting for the slider often broke, the mold has been changed to make it more robust.
> 
> There is one detail left: The metal of the sliders are a bit soft, i.e. if you press back on the top of the slider they may bend (The are easy to bend back again).



On your website on the MC3000 it says the charger is not without issue and most of them probably be fixed with a software upgrade.


----------



## HKJ

carnage said:


> On your website on the MC3000 it says the charger is not without issue and most of them probably be fixed with a software upgrade.



That was a long time ago, I believe that the software updates has fixed all my problems and added a lot of nice extras (With the exception of the supplied program).


----------



## carnage

HKJ said:


> That was a long time ago, I believe that the software updates has fixed all my problems and added a lot of nice extras (With the exception of the supplied program).



Any of the new MC3000 you purchased now will have the updated software or do you have to update it yourself?


----------



## HKJ

carnage said:


> Any of the new MC3000 you purchased now will have the updated software or do you have to update it yourself?



Depends on the age of the stock in the shop, I would guess that most has the newest version of the software (It is some time ago it was released).


----------



## carnage

Is there a way in all of the charger reviews in the conclusion to tell if there a problems at the time of the review has been address or fixed, kind of a update to the review. So when people looking at the review know if there's still a problem.


----------



## HKJ

carnage said:


> Is there a way in all of the charger reviews in the conclusion to tell if there a problems at the time of the review has been address or fixed, kind of a update to the review. So when people looking at the review know if there's still a problem.



If I get a note from manufacturer clearly stating they will fix the problem I will usual add a comment in the notes section.
If the manufacturer sends a new charger I will usual add a text at the top of review saying that the review is partly obsolete with a link to the updated review.


----------



## carnage

HKJ said:


> If I get a note from manufacturer clearly stating they will fix the problem I will usual add a comment in the notes section.
> If the manufacturer sends a new charger I will usual add a text at the top of review saying that the review is partly obsolete with a link to the updated review.



Thank You sir for the replies!


----------



## Late2Dgame

HKJ said:


> There are a lot of factors:
> The mains power supply would probably on have an efficiency around 70%
> The charger may be 50% (A rough guess), but it will depend on the actual battery type and selected charge current
> The charger will continue to use power when the battery is full
> 
> To get good efficiency you will need a simple charger and run it directly from the solar panel/batteries.



======

Hi HKJ I'm going to repost my response which I'd originally posted on the 19th but somehow disappeared. 

Thanks HKJ - It's already become obvious to me that this is going to be one of them iterative deals where not only am I juggling what it is that I'm charging, how I'm charging and what I'm using to do the charging. 

I might end up charging a battery bank (such as the Tesla Powerwall) and then using energy from it to run charger(s) like the MC3000.

I saw something that made me wonder if the MC3000 could be run using DC power instead of AC. Is that possible with the MC3000?

So based on your comments am I correct in assuming that the power loss could/might be something like 60%? If that were true would that mean that if I wanted the batteries charged to 100% that my power source would have to provide something like 167% of the power?

I can see why you're suggesting having a simple charger that would be ran directly from the solar cells. No inverter power loss, etc. etc.

As I mentioned in my reply to kreisi my intention was to spec out the worst possible case w.r.t. the type of battery (largest power requirement) figuring that if my system could handle that then every other type of battery could be charged. As far as how fast the batteries are charged, I'd be happy with a charge rate that was efficient w.r.t. the well being of the batteries.

Lastly, here's an excerpt from my still missing 1st post that I wanted you-all to see.


“…I'm really impressed with this board and the folks who are populating it. Wow!...”

Thanks HKJ... You're one of the good guys!

 L2dG


----------



## Late2Dgame

kreisl said:


> Tell us which exact battery you want to charge?
> 
> 32700?



Hi kresil: As I mentioned in my just sent reply to HKJ, my original reply to you didn't make it so I'll try it again.

Rather than having me tell you which exact battery I want to charge, what I was hoping for was using the largest battery that the MC3000 was designed to charge as the example. 

My thought being if I could provide the MC3000 enough energy to charge the type of battery which required the most power then I'd for sure be able to charge any of the lesser capacity batteries that might come into my possession.

I'm wondering if the calculation would go something like this: 

If one is charging 4 wxyz batteries that are about depleted and between them they have a capacity of XXX then...

if one was using the MC3000 they would need a power source that could provide (XXX) times something like 1.7, i.e. (1.7)(XXX) . 

This would be because things like the loss of energy in the charging process 

I don't know if the units used would be amps or volts or ????

L2dG


----------



## HKJ

Late2Dgame said:


> I saw something that made me wonder if the MC3000 could be run using DC power instead of AC. Is that possible with the MC3000?




The charger is powered from 12V, i.e. you can easily skip the mains supply and directly feed it 12V.




Late2Dgame said:


> So based on your comments am I correct in assuming that the power loss could/might be something like 60%? If that were true would that mean that if I wanted the batteries charged to 100% that my power source would have to provide something like 167% of the power?



Why my numbers the total efficiency would be 0.7*0.5 -> 0.35 or 35% of the supplied energy ending in the batteries, that means you would have to supply about 285% energy.
Note: Power is instant, energy is over time, units are watt (W) and watt*hours (Wh or kWh for 1000Wh).


----------



## HKJ

I just checked the numbers for a fairly simple charger (I do have record of power consumption for a few of my tested chargers).
Input power 21.2Wh at 230VAC
Charged into battery: 12.8Wh
Efficiency about 60%, this is rather good, I wonder if the power supply has extra high efficiency (i.e. 80% instead of 70%).

It was a 4 cell charger with one cell in it and charger current around 1.1A, the cell was one of my usual "SA18650-33" test cells.


----------



## fmc1

I have a basic MC3000 newbie question that I hope someone can answer.


When running cycle C>D>C N=1 or refresh, is there a way to see the discharged capacity of a cell once the second charge cycle has started?


It seems like if you don’t catch the charger in that D. resting phase you miss the discharge capacity and need to wait until the final charge phase is finished to see the capacity.


I have quite a few 18650’s from old laptops that I need to test and it would save me a lot of time if I could skip that last charge cycle if I knew the battery was going to end up in the recycle bin due to the capacity being low.


For now I am using cycle with mode C>D and if the battery is good I charge it. It works but it’s a two step process.


Thanks in advance


----------



## kreisl

fmc1 said:


> When running cycle C>D>C N=1 or refresh, is there a way to see the discharged capacity of a cell once the second charge cycle has started?


let's assign numbers for easier communication, you wrote "_When running cycle C0>D1>C1 N=1 or refresh … For now I am using cycle with mode C0>D1 and if the battery … _" (0 = starting routine, not a full charge or full discharge). All right then.

In Refresh operation mode, when battery is in C1, you would like to see the result of D1, without having to wait until C1 has finished oic:
1) as you know, the charger beeps when D1.RESTING starts. if you're not in the room, you can't hear it oic.
2) using Cycle operation mode C0>D1 N=1 instead is a good option imho.
3) if someone is serious or ambitious with the capacity testing or cycling of an entire batch of batteries, i would highly recommend using DEX for assistance (logging, saving, restoring, etc). If it is inconvenient to let a full 350W PC (WinPC, MacPC, or LinuxPC) be running all the time, i would highly recommend a headless raspi instead, only 2W. With the raspi logging, you can view all the graphs and data in real-time on your smartphone and operate DEX from your phone, even when you're on the road: a low-bandwith mobile inet connection is sufficient to stream the raspi screen onto your phone screen. the phone app is called VNC Viewer. i know nothing about raspi, linux and what have you, but even me, i managed to setup a raspi, to install DEX on it, and operate it remotely. Yeah a raspi costs 35$, a 16GB microSD card 5$, a raspi case isn't free either, but at least i can offer you a solution and it works flawlessly and is really satisfactory/fun/cool .

There are technical reasons (which i don't understand hence can't explain) why SOV shows the result of D1 (D2, D3, etc) always after 1 full cycle has finished. Do you know a 4bay charger which shows D1 during C1, maybe the MH-C9000 does so? I can't remember.

I hope that you can consider the raspi option. Over 10 million copies have been sold so far, wow!


----------



## fmc1

kreisl said:


> Do you know a 4bay charger which shows D1 during C1, maybe the MH-C9000 does so? I can't remember.



yes the opus bt-c3400 does.

I don't like using the Opus for testing for lots of reasons. The main one is the Charge rate and discharge rate must be the same in test mode. So if you want to charge at .5c and discharge at.2c it's a three step process.

Thank you for the suggestion about using DEX. I'll give it a shot, first on the PC since I already have one.

Thanks again


----------



## pgogborn

Darn, I purchased my MC3000 in the UK a couple of weeks ago, I thought I would be safe and then I heard a loud pop.

I have ordered a new case from GearBest, it hasn't arrived yet, but has anybody got any tips for installing the new case?


----------



## kreisl

pgogborn said:


> Darn, I purchased my MC3000 in the UK a couple of weeks ago, I thought I would be safe and then I heard a loud pop.


Sorry to hear! 
From which UK seller did you buy? Amazon UK inventory could be quite old stock that's true. Then it wouldn't make sense to ask for free replacement from them, i also agree.

Disassembly of the charger is easy, there are *six(6)* screws on the bottom. Reassembly is clear too, but requires some patience is all. Some nut posted the following video, reassembly of the old case, on youtube, you might find it helpful good luck:



Do be careful when opening the case after the 6 screws: the ventilation fan is wired to the PCB and the little white connector might have some glue residues on it. The glue is easy to scratch away, just be careful. Then you can unplug the little white connector.
:tinfoil:


----------



## pgogborn

Thank you for the tip and the video. It wasn't Amazon but it was a seller with a 'large' Internet store. 

I will name names and evaluate how good their response was when/if I succeed in switching boxes.

My pin broke after several long _Break_in_ cycles with the sliders fully extended by 18650 batteries - I suggest anybody worried that they have purchased old stock run a stress test with long batteries inserted for several days not necessarily with the box powered up. In my case I do not think heat was a major contributor to the failure.

In the meantime I have ordered a *compression* spring from eBay to push against the slider on top of the box, I will see how that works out.


----------



## kreisl

pgogborn said:


> a *compression* spring from eBay to push against the slider


I think I saw maybe in this thread someone having fixed the broken pin situation with a very small commercial zip tie. You loop the zip tie around the hole of the PCB and through the end of the pull-spring. This fixes the spring end very securely to the PCB.


----------



## canonite

i like my MC3000 ... but it seems to have a loud whirring sound sometimes which last 1-2 secs, when i switch it on .. during charging , if the fan comes on... it does not have that loud whirring sound at all.. 

wonder if anyone else has the same ?


----------



## DeJaVu

canonite said:


> i like my MC3000 ... but it seems to have a loud whirring sound sometimes which last 1-2 secs, when i switch it on .. during charging , if the fan comes on... it does not have that loud whirring sound at all..
> 
> wonder if anyone else has the same ?


Yep, i have same here. 
Its a common thing on old pcs, fans are loud until system/fan bearings warms up.

Fan needs to be oiled/lubricated to stop doing that. 
I would guess this is a common issue with the charger, and most other chinese charger with fans like the opus, litokala etc.
They just cant find it in their hearts to use good quality fans , even in a charger that costs almost 100$...


----------



## canonite

DeJaVu said:


> Yep, i have same here.
> Its a common thing on old pcs, fans are loud until system/fan bearings warms up.
> 
> Fan needs to be oiled/lubricated to stop doing that.
> I would guess this is a common issue with the charger, and most other chinese charger with fans like the opus, litokala etc.
> They just cant find it in their hearts to use good quality fans , even in a charger that costs almost 100$...



hope its nothing more then that.. i think i should be able to find a replacement fan if needed... was thinking of attaching those usb fans to the USB output for 'additional' cooling ..


----------



## DeJaVu

canonite said:


> hope its nothing more then that.. i think i should be able to find a replacement fan if needed... was thinking of attaching those usb fans to the USB output for 'additional' cooling ..



The fan inside the charger is not 12v like most fans ive come about, but its rated at 15v. So have that in mind when looking for replacement.


----------



## kreisl

kreisl said:


> Today i followed Alt2 to install 3.2.9 and i did some mc3k logging (_click to enlarge!_):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then i grabbed 3.3.0(beta) and followed Alt1 to install it.


Sharing time. Maybe nothing new to the people who followed the Raspberry Pi adventures from the very beginning, but afaik nobody posted so far this very setup in picture form, we only talked about it ("headless raspi", "DEX on raspi", "raspi powered by mc3k") and i would believe that not everybody could picture the setup properly in the mind. I didn't share a pic earlier because i wanted to wait for my aluminum case to arrive. Finally we're there! 

If someone wants to log mc3k without a laptop, full-size PC station, or a PC monitor, OR if someone wants to log mc3k for 24/7 (say 99 cycles), this is the recommended way to go. As you can see the raspi is at ~40% GPU-CPU, and the energy consumption is ~2W, which is a fraction of the mc3k's energy consumption. The mc3k's power brick adapter is rated at 60W iirc. Personally i haven't actually tested 99 cycles with this setup for the sake of testing, but i will. Summer is long. So.

In case you're wondering.. while a (beta) version of *DEX for Android* does exist :twothumbs, the above setup has nothing to do with it. The above demonstrates how i am using my smartphone to view (and actively control) what's going on on the raspi. There's a smartphone app called VNC Viewer. The app mirrors the raspi desktop on my phone in real-time, and there's no major time lag unless you run a high-res HD video on raspi's VLC Media Player. So, DEX is installed on raspi, and i use my phone's viewer app to remotely access raspi and its DEX. I can do so, even when i am on the train, on the road, etc., the VNC Viewer app is crazy awesome, stable and modern. And easy to use.

DEX produces *.OSD (or *.CSV) files on the raspi's microSD card. How do you transfer files from the raspi to your (new/old) PC workstation or to your smartphone in the most elegant and efficent way? The answer is the same: By using 'the FTP client of your powerful file manager' on your PC/smartphone/etc. TotalCommander and Directory Opus 11, for example, are powerful file managers (for PC, also for Android phone) with built-in FTP functionality. So you point your file manager to the raspi (typically bookmarked under Favorites or Bookmarks of your file manager) and bam!, you have all the file access to need: you can copy/paste files from the raspi and also to the raspi, back and forth. The reason why this works is: as soon as you enable _Interface: SSH_ on the raspi, the raspi can be addressed as special FTP server, called *SFTP over SSH*. Note that this FTP'ing works only when your PC or smartphone is in the WiFi network of your raspi and WLAN-router.
If you're on the road in your car and really wtf need to transfer files between [email protected] and [email protected], then upload the file to the cloud or as email attachment and download it on the system where you need it on (Raspbian or Android, either accessed through your [email protected]); there are also dedicated tools for any kind of file transfer between computers, for example Send Anywhere.

Everything works beautifully like that.

Once in a while i would update my raspi thread, whenever there is something new or neat to share. Hope you find my posts worthwhile reading or even inspiring (any mc3k owner interested in buying a raspi now too? i know at least one other person :huh. The content is very basic, i am a raspi beginner, but scratching at the raspi world is absolutely enough to keep myself hooked. And as a logging machine for mc3k (and UT61E) it found a serious purpose in my hands.


----------



## DeJaVu

YEEEESSSSSS, WOOOOHOOOO
I was starting to feel left out, but no more. Full fledged member of the brotherhood, baptized by snap.


----------



## kreisl

I am not sure what you're saying but you do sound delighted about something with regard to this thread. Must be something good positive then 

Btw to whom it may concern:
_Since_ this great flexible method of "quasi-offline" logging (technically "offline" is incorrect word choice because raspi is a standalone computer and has wifi and www capability) of mc3k exists, works and pleases, I won't request true offline logging, i.e. on a SDcard directly inserted in the charger, if sky ever thought about a "MC5000"in a dream future and asked me about ideas for it. With DEX, you can control which data columns and in which format (how many decimals, which time format, etc) and which sessions and slots are to be included in the exported *.CSV-file. One wouldn't have any such controls if a "mc5k" logged directly to card (unless a raspi were integrated in the mc5k casing - crazy idea). 
Logging directly to card or to USB thumb drive made sense to me like 5-10yrs ago. The game has changed since. The new relevant co-players are wifi, internet, cloud, smartphones and raspi, not even Bluetooth imho. And of course also thanks to the dedicated geman team behind DEX, the software is key in the game. 

When people, from this very day on, approach sky suggesting offline logging capability to built-in SDcard, the rep will probably respond with "_aha yes sir do you already know about the raspi dex solution to your request?_" and then ignore and move on, how rude lol


----------



## DeJaVu

kreisl said:


> I am not sure what you're saying but you do sound delighted about something with regard to this thread. Must be something good positive then



Yes, im ecstatic. For joining the brotherhood of snapped spring posts.
Not a half hour had passed after me badmouthing skyrc for using cheap fans, and the skyrc gods punished me with a snap sound .
1 post snapped while charging single 18650(not that oftenly used slot), 2 more were about to give out and only one was intact.

At least i had a good excuse to open up the charger and tidy it up a bit. 
1.Removed all posts, replaced with zip tie
2.bent the lower portion of positive contacts so now all flattops can be charged without lifting
3.Added long overdue "twin turbine"  40mm fans at the back connected to the chargers usb port , got about 7 degrees lower system temp.Considering that the back fans are running at 5V and are inaudible its a good gain.
Bit questionable mod though, even though you get lowered system temp, when operating it at full power like discharging 4 batteries battery temp rises because the fans are cooling the heatsink and blowing the hot air toward the batteries. Still havent tested how it would behave on charging with high current, but i think it wont bother the batteries much, and those rare times the fan starts during charging should be kept at minimum or posibly eliminated alltogether. Making a side grill so the air escapes from the sides along the airflow(fins are horizontal so air doesnt escape from the top vent but goes along the sides) of the heatsink could help resolve the battery heating issue when discharging.
Not sure if i will try that, the little bugger got me tired, removing that chewing gum from the connectors was a real (challenge). Took me more than half an hour, and was actually the hardest part of the whole process if you ask me.
4.And at the end removed that cheap paste and replaced with good one, battery temp sensors now seem much more precise to me. Gained a few degrees of system temp upon doing this grrrrrr. I know, i know, the degrees were there but i just couldnt see them, and now i have the gift . 

All in all, i found the good in the bad.


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> How do you transfer files from the raspi to your (new/old) PC workstation or to your smartphone in the most elegant and efficent way?.



Congrats on the whole setup
Happy to see a convert :twothumbs to Pi

About transfer, samba is supported also,
and sshfs allows to mount the raspi memory card as a remote drive/folder from another linux machine.


----------



## kreisl

Ravel said:


> Congrats on the whole setup
> Happy to see a convert :twothumbs to Pi


@Ravel , thanks for your cheers!! 
Without you guys' help and the recipe it would have taken me much longer to install DEX on Pi. Using the install script made it so much easier! A RS232 serial board in form of a "Pi Hat" is on my way, that should complete my Pi-related purchases. Then i'll be able to log my multimeter on Pi too, not only the mc3k. 
So you like samba and sshfs for remote access? If i understood correctly, SSHFS is a thing between two Linux machines; i couldn't use it on my Win-machine or on my Android phone. Samba seems popular, versatile, powerful, and has functionality like the control of printers which SFTP doesn't have. But for file transfer/file management, it seems that i would use my Win file manager here too, the raspi drive/folder would become available as a new shared network computer entry in my Win file manager. Samba must have its strong advantages over SFTP but the latter still seems to me the most direct primitive easiest way to connect and transfer, since modern file managers already have an integrated FTP-module and one does not need to create/modify/manipulate linux files on the raspi.


----------



## kreisl

CuriousOne said:


> Hello. Which charger currently has most reliable battery internal resistance measurement, for both Lithium and Nickel cells? (Except hobby chargers and MC3000 please).


Since the author doesn't want mc3k discussion in his thread.. :mecry:

I saw a similar question on the geman forum. The OP couldn't produce *consistent Batt IR measurements* with the mc3k and questioned the acquisition. I commented that, unfortunately as so much in serious life, if one wants to produce serious or ambitious measurements (like HKJ) which are suitable for publication or future reference, the mc3k device takes a minimum of personal efforts to produce such measurement results. The key reason for this being the various contributions of contact resistances per slot (_dtsch. _Kontaktwiderstände, Übergangswiderstände, Kontaktübergangswiderstände). Let's count, (+)TERMINAL-(+)BATTERY, (-)TERMINAL-(-)BATTERY, SLIDER-RAIL; that's 3 contributions. If you modded (it is possible but don't ask me how lol) the mc3k to having FourTerminalSensing (actually, it is ThreeTerminalSensing in practice) slots, you would eliminate the SLIDER-RAIL contribution only, and the total contact resistance would still depend on the contact pressure. Contact pressure is highest and optimal in a fixed bay charger like the MH-C9000; the AAA and AA batteries are really firmly seated between the contacts.

What kind of personal efforts? Well, amongst others, a fully serviced, maintained, re-calibrated unit, plus the manual minimization of the total contact resistance. Clearly, the ambitious tester tries to find the minimum of the total contact resistance (in a particular slot), before he proceeds with the test (Batt IR test, capacity test, whateva test) and publishes the test results. 

Getting consistent and reliable Batt IR measurements with the mc3k is, due to the personal efforts, a bit challenging at first. Same with sharpening knives, tuning an old violin, or frying perfect eggs sunny side up! We are talking here +1 milliohms(!!) resolution, so any disturbing factors must be taken into account, eliminated or minimized!! Unless the battery is soldered to the PCB, you cannot eliminate contact resistance. So you can only minimize it by maximizing the contact pressure, e.g. as seen in the MH-C9000 or NC2500 fixed battery slots.

Nuff with the blablah. My unit was serviced and re-calibrated over a year ago. So, for my test videos, i only had to look out for the minimal total contact resistance and then try to reproduce the minimum before turning on the camera! The "trying to reproduce" took me an average of ~5min. So the time difference between each of the 4 video clips is ~5min. I didn't feel like video recording the 20mins of efforts (= 4*5min), i am showing the end result only. As any reviewer/tester does. As any pianist does. No pianist video records how he progresses studying a new piano piece until he finally gets to public-worthy performance quality!

The point of the footage is NOT to teach you how (what i did in the 5mins) to get to each of the four video results. The point of the footage is to prove that _consistent _Batt IR measurement _is _possible on the mc3k. Note: The test results are also _reliable_, as long as you repeat them under the same battery conditions: the battery should be well-conditioned (i.e. not a sleeping battery), fully charged, cooled off, and clean. lol.

Through rotation of the 4-bay configuration each battery was tested in every slot.


WHITE: 94, 94, 94
BLUE: 86, 86, 86
VIOLET: 86, 86, 86
YELLOW: 81, 81, 81


YELLOW: 81, 81, 81
WHITE: 95, 95, 95
BLUE: 86, 86, 86
VIOLET: 88, 88, 88


VIOLET: 86, 86, 87
YELLOW: 81, 81, 81
WHITE: 93, 93, 94
BLUE: 84, 84, 85


BLUE: 87, 87, 87
VIOLET: 87, 87, 87
YELLOW: 81, 81, 82
WHITE: 95, 95, 95

The batteries are from my set of Eneloop Panasonic Tropical (manuf. 2014), have been re-conditioned just now (BREAK_IN, followed by 6 cycles at -0.5/1.0A with MH-C9000, avg. mh-c9000 capacity reading ~1890mAh) and have been discharged to 0.9V without D.REDUCE prior to the above Batt IR measurement tests. Afaik Batt IR measurements should not be taken with discharged batteries, because this would produce unreliable or unstable results, but .. the heck i thought and did it anyway haha, with no detrimental effect in this clip series, as we could see.

*To cut the whole post short:*

If i gave my mc3k, this very unit!, and my Eneloops, this very set of 4 well-conditioned samples!, to my RC hobby savvy neighbor and asked him to shoot a *series* of videos showing 4-bay configuration rotation and measurement of Batt IR (3 readings per battery per slot) — basically doing exactly the same what i did in *~22mins* of efforts! — he would have shot everything in *1 single* video of *1min* length and gotten completely different measurements showing in his video footage: *whose fault for the discrepancy between mine and his footage would it be then? *Is it the device's fault? Or is the mc3k user to blame? I will let the buyer/shopper decide upon this question.

The gist is, it really does take some efforts (time, energy, efforts, experience, practice, patience, frustration, knowledge, understanding, etc) to get things as beautifully right as seen in HKJ's review or the above set of 4 video clips ... regarding the ambitious measurement of battery internal resistance with the mc3k charger. ( Btw before i start very serious capacity tests, i use the Batt IR function too to learn the total contact resistance minimum per slot. Extra contact resistance, for example caused by my flaking dandruff, would ruin the beauty of the capacity test results. )


----------



## CuriousOne

So far, hobby chargers with balance connector and good quality cradle are most affordable tool for IR resistance testing.


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> @Ravel , thanks for your cheers!!
> So you like samba and sshfs for remote access? If i understood correctly, SSHFS is a thing between two Linux machines; i couldn't use it on my Win-machine or on my Android phone. Samba seems popular, versatile, powerful, .



Was thinking just file access, not remote access as such.
Never used samba, I know nothing about winblows (it was for completness of option)
Quite keen on sshfs, yes it is more of an oddity linux to linux, but great.

Also if interested there is an android raspi manager app called raspmanager

Regards


----------



## _UPz

Hi,

Today I am trying to replace an old MC3000 case (wiv broken spring poles and some screw column missing two) and I am struggling to take the display off. Removed all screws but the display block seems to be glued to the case and pry/level it is scary...

Any of you who replaced the case or dissasembled the display can help with any tip?

Thanks a million!


----------



## kreisl

_UPz said:


> Any of you who replaced the case or dissasembled the display can help with any tip?


Here is my tip: the display assembly consists of LCD screen soldered(?) to its PCB. And between LCD and mc3k case there is a thick transparent plastic window. We have four layers at the screw posts for the display assembly: mc3k case + window + LCD + PCB. Since this sandwhich is held together with 4 small screws, their white glue is imho not needed.

Maybe you can tell us how you managed to ..


----------



## _UPz

Hi kreisl,

Thanks for your "tip".:shrug:
I've managed to take out the display, not with a lot of scary moments. As you say, there's white glue. Too much imho. And also, not needed at all because all parts are nicely enginereed and the fitment is perfect with no glue.










Dissasembling my old unit was easy, till I got to the display... after some meditation I decided to _throw the dice_ and try to pry it out. I started prying with small flat screwdriver from the corners. I bended the screwdriver and the "sandwich" display was still intact  . Grabbed a bigger flat screwdriver and my wife's hair dryer. After heating a bit the display corners from the front side of the device, I started to feel how the things started to get "screamy" when prying, cracky scary noises. But shortly the screen (LCD and it's PCB) came out. 






There was still the display "window" attached to the case. And it had TONS of white glue under. More hair dryer, a bit of pry... but the material of the "window" is bit fragile and I broke a small bit (fortunatelly not visible from the front face) of it while prying... then I switched the screwdriver for a guitar pick and slowly I started introducind it from the front joint of the window-case. Spend a bit of time slowly separating the glued parts and finally the d*mn window thingy came off. 









My adventures with mc3k replacement case didn't end there... shortly after removing all the bits (including the logo plate) from the old case, I noticed the new case had thicker screw columns. *YES.* 
I measured my PCB hole diametter (~5.2mm) and the columns in the replacement case are ~6.4mm. Whoa... test fitment confirmed: My "motherboard" PCB (*v1.4*, 07-2015 FYI) didn't fit in the new case columns.






There was no other option than sand the columns or bigger the PCB holes. Since I was replacing the case because it had 4 broken spring poles and 3 screw column missing... for me it made no sense to "weaken" the new purchased ( and pretty expensive if you ask me ) case. So I took a round diamond file and start sanding out the holes to make them bigger. I took extreme caution to not touch any of the traces around the holes. It was specially tricky with the center-left hole, which I sanded a bit on the PCB and had to sand a bit the case column to reduce its diametter to make it fit, because there are PCB traces surounding the hole very closely.






Once I got all holes enlarged I test-fitted the PCB: nice perfect fit. I followed this video tutorial (tx larry) for assembly, which can be tricky specially with the backplate-slider-spring-cable-thermalsensor fitment combination :sick2:.

Fortunatelly my unit is now repaired, working and looking good, but, just in case any of you need to replace the case (because poor plastic choice on first batch) just be aware that it's not a fast & easy task.
Also, the replacement case product page didn't say nothing, but it's only the front half. It doesn't include the back case, nor the display window, nor the screws, nor the slot thermal plates, nor even the logo! I understand that it's a replacement part intended for waranty issues, but people paying "full price" like me will feel like ripped off.

Thanks again for the help!


----------



## MidnightDistortions

I'm so excited, i got my MC3000. I'm playing around with an older AAA NiMH battery. I couldn't get the temp cut off to work though, i'm not sure why that is unless it's because the battery is at an angle? It was the only way i could get the battery to go in there. Either way, this is pretty cool a lot more information and play.


----------



## kreisl

yes could be. the AAA might not be touching the temp sensor plate. 
btw i have enough thermal paste on my thermal sensors, so my slot sensors work pretty well. just saying. 
Congrats to the acquisition, welcome to the owner's club  
Which firmware version is on your unit?



_UPz said:


> Thanks for your "tip".:shrug:


----------



## MidnightDistortions

Yeah. Thanks.. it's a great unit. I'm not sure if i can view the firmware while i have a battery cycling in there. I think it was 1.4 something i don't recall.


----------



## canonite

was charging nl1834 cells.. and notice slot 4's battery post being pushed into an awkward position.. spring and slider is fine.. but seems like the post was bent backwards...


----------



## tjh

Is there a new FW version in the works?
I mean there's nothing wrong with 1.13 as far as I'm concerned (well the beeping error is annoying) but you know, good to see it get an update once a year or so I guess!


----------



## kreisl

i have the 1.14_beita_ and the _finalization _is on their todo list but these days/weeks they are not working on it afaik. you can see the changes for 1.14 already in de list: only few changes like minor bug fixes, official(!) support for LTO and RAM, and filling up the <DOWN+SNB> in TOV with 4 additional "memories" as not opposed by you guys. 

btw while "memory" is not a technically incorrect term, see old handheld calculators and their <M+> and <MR> keys, i suggested that they use the word "shortcut" instead. when they update the pdf manual, let's look for the old/new words.

fed is the goat!!


----------



## LiteTheWay

How reliable should we expect the Battery IR measurement achieved by < Up + Down > to be? Compared say with supposedly dedicated battery IR measurement meters?


----------



## kreisl

7histology said:


> How reliable should we expect the Battery IR measurement achieved by < Up + Down > to be? Compared say with supposedly dedicated battery IR measurement meters?


You must have read my post #4780, haven't you? 

Have you experienced the operation (ease of use?) of dedicated Batt IR measurement meters (dbirmm)? Meaning what?
Meaning .. if i handed out your meter to a family of six (father, mother, son, daughter, grandpa, grandma) and told them that each person were to give it only 1 shot, after which he/she must quote me the reading, what do you think would the sequence of six numbers look like? And also, i wouldn't give them any kind of information or details on how to operate the meter other than pressing the button

Point is, i (and HKJ, and and and) _can _produce _reliable _batt ir measurements with the mc3k <Up+Down> method, as proven by my above series of footage, but not everybody else _can _produce _reliable _batt ir measurements with the mc3k. The *minimization or elimination* of all contact resistances comes always first, no matter which sensing is implemented (Two-Terminal Sensing, Three-Terminal Sensing, Four-Terminal Sensing) and no matter which sophisticated code algorithm is used, and it is the only challenge to face when any mc3k user wants to produce reliable batt IR measurements with the mc3k (or a dbirmm).

Or was your question how a "51mΩ(mc3k)" reading (produced by my efforts) compares to a dbirmm reading produced by my aunt? No offense but i would rely more on my mc3k-measurement


Yet another *related example*: Have you ever tried to measure the resistance of a piece of wire with the probes of your digital multimeter? A piece of wire has only a few milliOhms resistance, say 6-8mΩ. But to get this reading on the display of your DMM (typically rounded as "0.01Ω" on an auto-ranging DMM) you will have to spend real sweat and efforts with your hands, probes and the piece of wire. The contribution of contact resistance between probe1+wire and probe2+wire is substantial and can range between 0.10-1.00Ω, i.e. 1 or 2 orders of magnitude higher!, depending on how well/forceful you press the probes against the piece of wire.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Yes I have/had. Which is why I asked the question and was looking for a short answer. I guess a short answer is/was: very reliable if you work at it a bit and certainly as good as dedicated meters.



kreisl said:


> You must have read my post #4780, haven't you?


----------



## cobalt

Can anyone tell me if the problem with the post that hold the spring has been fixed as I've had the 3rd one brake I really like the charger but I don't want to get another if it's going to be the same. So has the problem been addressed ?


----------



## terjee

cobalt said:


> Can anyone tell me if the problem with the post that hold the spring has been fixed as I've had the 3rd one brake I really like the charger but I don't want to get another if it's going to be the same. So has the problem been addressed ?



It HAS been addressed. The upgraded posts are much stronger, and I've not had an issue since I fixed mine. You might want to be careful about where you order from though, some shops could have old stock. I bought the last bad one from NKON quite a while back, so I know they should be good. They were helpful and quick in shipping a replacement of the top part of the chassis as well. It's always hard to say something is 100% surely fixed, but there was a design change to address this issue, the new version appears to fix it, and I've ridden the new version harder than the old, with no issue. 

Seems very promising, but I wouldn't bet my first born. I'm confident enough that I'd buy a new one if my current one was stolen.


----------



## kreisl

you must have been an early adopter of the product, am i right? and really you wouldn't mind getting another one, even so it costs 100$? as you know one could fix the broken pins situation with thin zip-ties, as shown before. Gearbest sends out the improved/stronger replacement case basically for free to early GB buyers as warranty service; the buyer must then exchange the part on his own. Apart from repairing units this way, yes that issue was long fixed: since *June production 2016*. And all the fast selling vendors got this or newer production batches in stock for months! from which shipping county would you like to buy? send me a pm and i could point out recommended vendors in that county🤑

(…)

On a different/related note, i can personally confirm that DEX3.3.0 on raspi logs ut61e beautifully without probs or setup/configuration/driver installation. Like plug'n play!, which is super rare on a native Linux system. One only needs to use a "specific" Serial-to-USB adapter (min 7-10$ cost ouch) between the raspi's USB port and the UNI-T's serial logging cable, and the raspi kernel supports the adapter from the get-go after a reboot. I will post more about raspi'n ut61e (all thx to our DEX!) soon in my raspi cpf thread np stay tuned.


----------



## terjee

Just double-checked the order date on my early version, and it was just over 2 years ago. By that time, the fault was known and fixed, I just got older stock. A unit delivered to a shop 2 years ago would be a new version with the fix.


----------



## kreisl

terjee said:


> over 2 years ago



afaik the product was released just before xmas 2015, say nov 2015, no? :thinking:


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> On a different/related note, i can personally confirm that DEX3.3.0 on raspi logs ut61e beautifully without probs or setup/configuration/driver installation. Like plug'n play!, which is super rare on a native Linux system. One only needs to use a "specific" Serial-to-USB adapter (min 7-10$ cost ouch) between the raspi's USB port and the UNI-T's serial logging cable, and the raspi kernel supports the adapter from the get-go after a reboot. I will post more about raspi'n ut61e (all thx to our DEX!) soon in my raspi cpf thread np stay tuned.



AFAIK only DEX 3.2.9 is yet available
http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/download.html


----------



## kreisl

The latest beta software is always posted at the jardex tinyurl link


----------



## fmc1

Does anyone know or care to speculate as to why there is a 1 cell limit for LiIon discharge at 2A?


It seems to me that 2 cells would be a more logical limit and very useful for me and I’m sure other owners would like this capability as well.


Is total heat generated from 2 18650’s discharging at 2A greater than 4 18650’s discharging at 1A? 


I saw this mentioned in Kreisel’s idea section of possible future changes but with no conformation.


To me this should be an easy one. What am I missing?


Thanks


----------



## kreisl

> DataExplorer 3.3.0 released
> 
> Item posted on Tue 01 Aug 2017
> 
> 1) general updates and fixes
> - fix analog display of synchronized master record
> - support UTC time formatting
> - enhance GPS coordinates support (longitude / latitude)
> - formatting in degrees/minutes or decimal degrees based on unit settings in the device XML
> - keep selected channel after opening an OSD file
> - add history graphics template support (no default set of templates get delivered)
> - fix STM virtual serial port enumeration problem (Graupner MC-28/26)
> - fix device XML migration problem with devices using USB
> - simplify device XMLs to language neutral version to reduce maintenance effort
> (...)
> 4) MC3000
> - add support for Lithium-Titanate batteries (BATT TYPE: LTO) FW 1.14
> (...)
> 6) UT16E Unitrend multimeter
> - add support
> (...)
> 21) update users guideline documentation



Unlike sky team on mc3k, the dex team is working full-time on dex project, one can tell, I can tell 😰

Happy weekend everybody!!🙆

@Ravel , does your raspi dex recipe need to be updated now?


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> Unlike sky team on mc3k, the dex team is working full-time on dex project, one can tell, I can tell 😰
> 
> Happy weekend everybody!!🙆
> 
> @Ravel , does your raspi dex recipe need to be updated now?



Will look at it


----------



## cobalt

Many thanks


----------



## Yourrid

Hey guys, long time lurker and BLF member, but I think this is my first post on here.

I'll get right to it; I tried to update my MC3000 to the v1.13 firmware, and got a "start vector err1." The update .exe will not go further than about 4% before the error comes up. Now the screen on the charger is blank, but lit up. The monitoring software saw the charger just fine, and still says the USB is connected when I run the program. I'm really worried I just made a $100 brick out of this thing. :mecry: I haven't unplugged the charger from my computer yet in hopes its not totally bricked.

I'm searching frantically for answers, and came across this "*Dummies guide to reflash a charger after a failed flash:"
*http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/....php?p=4923550

Is this the proper next step for me? 

Oh, I'm running Windows 7 x64 and the charger is HW 1.4 FW 1.0.3

Thank you for your help.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes, follow that guide. You don't have a $100 brick


----------



## Yourrid

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> Yes, follow that guide. You don't have a $100 brick



I just ran your guide.... you sir, are wise beyond your years. Worked perfectly. Exactly as you described. Thank you so much for the quick reply. :thanks:


----------



## dj_g

*Re: Kriesl: best location to buy MC3K*

Hi Kriesl, apologies for posting this on the main forum, I am a long time Lurker, first time poster, and owner of 2 mc3k's, one of which happened to break unfortunately. I am from Canada (Toronto, Ontario) to be specific, (it's a big country lol). Would you know of the best places to purchase a brand new mc3k and not get stuck with an old one? Sorry I couldn't send this over pm!
Thanks
Dan.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Yourrid said:


> I just ran your guide.... you sir, are wise beyond your years. Worked perfectly. Exactly as you described. Thank you so much for the quick reply. :thanks:


No worries, glad it helped.


----------



## kreisl

Ravel said:


> Will look at it


Sounds like a plan tia!

Apparently only the download URL within the recipe needs to be updated. Anywho I managed to update my raspi's DEX to the latest DEX version and i've been running it nonstop for logging mc3k, which is why i haven't tested the new Android mc3k app version aka V3.71:


Google Playstore said:


> What's New
> 1.Optimize connection problem
> 2.App does not automatically turn off Bluetooth
> Additional information
> Updated: August 14, 2017



As everyone  remembers, one *cannot *run the USB PC LINK (pcls, dex, raspi, whateva) and the Bluetooth link *at the same time*. Please don't ask me what happens if you still try to use both link channels at the same time


----------



## kreisl

*Re: Kriesl: best location to buy MC3K*



dj_g said:


> Hi Kriesl, apologies for posting this on the main forum, I am a long time Lurker, first time poster, and owner of 2 mc3k's, one of which happened to break unfortunately. I am from Canada (Toronto, Ontario) to be specific, (it's a big country lol).


Long time lurker making his very first post in the mc3k thread, great to hear from you, welcome to cpf!
I followed the coupe rogers last week, awesome stuff, with a new youngstar born :huh:
Were you able to fix/repair the broken 1 mc3k?


----------



## Tamadite

*For the record:*
Problem getting MC3000 to connect to Firmware upgrade software (1.13) and MC3000 Monitor software
Platform OS: Windows 10 with latest updates (26Aug2017)
Platform HW: HP Pavilion
Symptoms: 
.....Firmware update software detected the device. After pressing "Update" button it changes to "Wait..." but nothing happens.
.....Monitor software shows "USB on" but "STAR" button is greyed out.
Status: Problem solved!
Root problem #1: "bad quality" Nokia NC-101 cable. Changed to original Huawei mobile cable.
Root problem #2: using USB3 port on laptop. Changed to USB2 port. (laptop equipped with both types, USB3 and USB2)

Note:
Neither the Nokia cable on the USB2 port nor the Huawei cable on the USB3 port made the connection possible.


----------



## Tamadite

I wonder how interesting would it be to enhance the device with pulsed discharge functionality.

This functionality would require the following parameters (just as an example):
Pulse duration (ms): (5 <= ms <= 10000) (--> it would be 200 <= Hz <= 0.1)
Duty (%): (1 <= d <= 99)
High drain: (0.01 <= Amp <= 2.00) 
Low drain: (0.00 <= Amp < 2.00)
Cut-off Volt: 
Cut-off Time (min):

This goal is to be able to analyse the performance of batteries/cells on diverse pulse draining conditions.


----------



## kreisl

Macan said:


> 3. On dummy mode, I read HKJ's excellent review and he stated that the charge time is only 3 hours. Is this still the case with the updated FW 1.13?


There have been many changes since HKJ's review (FW1.02?), take your pick:
http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list



Macan said:


> 4. Read reports of the slider breaking easily. What is the HW version that addressed this?


http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-new


----------



## garyyoung

I have one of the first-generation MC3000's with fragile pins anchoring the sliders. I ordered one of the replacement top cases from GearBest, and plan to transfer the parts over as soon as it arrives. When I last looked inside the charger, it looked like many of the cable connectors and other parts were slathered with glue that had dried hard. What's the best way to remove that glue? Chip away at it with a sharp blade? Or would it help to heat it with a hair dryer or heat gun?

By the way, are there any modifications I should consider while I've got it open (aside from reversing the fan)?


----------



## terjee

garyyoung said:


> What's the best way to remove that glue? Chip away at it with a sharp blade? Or would it help to heat it with a hair dryer or heat gun?



There's no need to remove any glue, at least there wasn't when I did mine.

A lot of the connectors that at first might seem like you have to disconnect, can stay in place. Biggest fiddly bit is just getting the slides themselves properly seated, but it's fine with a bit of patience.


----------



## chemEJoe

kreisl said:


> There have been many changes since HKJ's review (FW1.02?), take your pick:
> http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-list
> 
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/mc3k-new



Hi Kreisl, Thank you for the above links, they answered a lot for me, as I've been absent from this forum for over a year.

I was an early 2016 buyer and did the fan mod, took the system apart and rounded the slider edges and used DeOxIT Gold. Got to know the insides pretty well. Then I went happily using this for my 18650s for night bike rides and charging all my AAAs and AAs (sometimes testing them, throwing out the bad ones). Love the charger. Switched all my NiMH to Eneloops. Great charger! Learned a lot from people here, you, and HKJ. The only thing I didn't do was firmware update as I don't have a PC (mac).

Alas, 2 spring retainer posts from that v1.0 plastic broke spontaneously over a month, knocking out 2 bays and that was inconvenient to say the least. Instead of hooking the spring to the holes in the PCB, I epoxied the posts and they are pretty strong now. Also had one screw retainer break and epoxied that too with success. 

Problem is, on putting it together, I had some DeOxIT that might have gotten onto the PCB, and now it reads the batteries ok, but when I go to charge, Bay 2 says there's a Short Circuit and then the system reboots. I opened it up and used pure alcohol to clean the PCB and connections, and no joy. Bay 2 problem and reboot. Bay 2 says Short Circuit, and system reboots right after. This only happens when charging is initiated - reading the batteries goes aok for all the bays. (also, the first time this happened, I got a error statement, but it flashed away before could write it down and now I don't have the error statement anymore but it cycles on reboot as noted).

I'm worried there's been some internal damage - Does anyone know of this behavior and cause? Is this a known issue that there's a known fix for?

If there's so easy solution:

1. Do you think the manuf will sell me a new one at a discount because it was v1.0 problems that caused this to break down?
2. How do I get a hold of the manuf? Through Gearbest where I bought it?
2. Who has the latest versions (that is, are the latest updates/firmware now shipping from Amazon or Gearbest?) Who is the best seller these days?

I love the charger, and I can borrow my friend's cheap charger for a few weeks until I get a new one. I'd hate to have to abort and buy a $30 you know what ... If anyone has advice along the lines of the above, I would appreciate it very much. I'm sorry to have disappeared - been working hard on a turnaround and just got burned in biz, so back to my hobby things to cheer me up. Through it all, this thread is one of the coolest on the web for a guy who is trying to age gracefully and enjoy using his hands on stuff once in awhile. This and the auto forums ...


----------



## Macan

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Apologies in advance if this question has been asked and answered. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Without a DMM, what is the best way to calibrate a MC3000? [/FONT][/FONT]


----------



## Frottage

Wow, a lot of info to digest. Thanks to all who contributed to this monster thread, lol. So, I want one, but I want to make sure I get the most recent model possible. I see several retailers selling what look like previous hardware versions. Can somebody please recommend a seller or sellers that would have the most current hardware and firmware for sale? Thank you do anyone who can offer some guidance.


----------



## fmc1

Frottage said:


> Wow, a lot of info to digest. Thanks to all who contributed to this monster thread, lol. So, I want one, but I want to make sure I get the most recent model possible. I see several retailers selling what look like previous hardware versions. Can somebody please recommend a seller or sellers that would have the most current hardware and firmware for sale? Thank you do anyone who can offer some guidance.



What country do you live in?


----------



## Frottage

Hi fmc1, I’m in Florida, USA


----------



## capitanharlock

Recently gor my MC3000, but I can't connect it via Bluetooth to my android Phone.
The Mc3000 app keeps saying "charger not found", and if I try to connect it using the Android bluetooth options it asks me a passkey...

Any hints?


----------



## fmc1

Frottage said:


> Hi fmc1, I’m in Florida, USA



I would highly recommend you buy from a US based seller because of the warranty. The last page of the manual states the factory warranty is one year but only valid in China and that dealers handle warranty claims outside of China. You can check Ebay and Amazon for US based sellers. Both Ebay and Amazon sellers tell you where the product ships from. Then contact those sellers asking about the newer case containing the stronger slider spring pins made June 2016 and later. Also ask about warranty service if becomes necessary. Don’t worry about firmware because it’s end user upgradeable and very easy to do.


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> Sounds like a plan tia!
> 
> Apparently only the download URL within the recipe needs to be updated. Anywho I managed to update my raspi's DEX to the latest DEX version and i've been running it nonstop for logging mc3k, which is why i haven't tested the new Android mc3k app version aka V3.71:
> 
> 
> As everyone  remembers, one *cannot *run the USB PC LINK (pcls, dex, raspi, whateva) and the Bluetooth link *at the same time*. Please don't ask me what happens if you still try to use both link channels at the same time


I downloaded the 3.30 version, it worked on the raspi straight away.
The recipe is indeed still ok
I will update the recipe link in the hour.


----------



## fneuf

Sometime my MC3000 unit emits a mid tone loud buzzing sound while the fan goes on. Is it a known or expected behavior? Resonance anywhere with the housing? Any simple way to take care of that? 
The coils of the sliders are surprisingly though. It is up to the point that on the first uses I've managed to bend some of the "-" terminal big metal sliders by not pulling them from their very bottom. I've seen others being slightly bent just by the normal presence of a battery pushing against it. Hopefully plasticity level was not reached on any of those occurences and I've managed to unbend them. Is it also a normal behavior that just requires utmost precaution when inserting batteries? 

On a plus side, I really don't know why I've waited years to convince myself to buy this amazing charger. The level of control and precision it gives is truly incredible. Sometimes the assertion "money BUYS quality" is a true statement.


----------



## STIXXXXX

My MC3000 died today after 13 months 
It shows a MCP 3242-1 error. Located the two ADCs - they look quite okay (didn´t expect anything else )
So, Im going to buy another one. Is there still something to have in mind, e.g. serial numbers?
Or maybe a new device came out / is coming out, so I can upgrade, when I buy a new one anyways?
Greets from GER
STIX

edit: found a good price on hobbyking.com - any experiences with this shop? They don´t put the hardware/firmware version in the description...


----------



## Wrongway

I have managed to install DEX on a RPi3 after a bit of tinkering and head scratching. I will be accessing it on a Macbook using RealVNC which also seems to work. I saw mention about using the MC3000 USB output to power the RPi. Has this been tried with a RPi 3 as I think the official power supply for the version 3 is 2.5A. Also when setting up DEX and choosing the device there was 2 entries for MC3000 one was just MC3000 and the other had 2 letters after it. I used the first one, is that correct?


----------



## Ravel

Wrongway said:


> I have managed to install DEX on a RPi3 after a bit of tinkering and head scratching. I will be accessing it on a Macbook using RealVNC which also seems to work. I saw mention about using the MC3000 USB output to power the RPi. Has this been tried with a RPi 3 as I think the official power supply for the version 3 is 2.5A. Also when setting up DEX and choosing the device there was 2 entries for MC3000 one was just MC3000 and the other had 2 letters after it. I used the first one, is that correct?



I posted a recipe to run DEX on raspi (see first page of thread for the link)
Did you use it ? Did you struggle with something else ?

You can indeed use the MC3000 to power the raspi. I suggested and it was tried a few pages ago.
(I do not know if you can power and get the data to DEX at the same time though the USB cable,
I suppose so but did not try)

Did not notice two devices.
Whichever works you will soon know


----------



## fneuf

From Europe a great price and a quick delivery can be obtained by ordering it from NKON. They have the lastest FW and HW version in stock (or at least they had when I ordered mine 2 weeks ago).


----------



## STIXXXXX

fneuf said:


> From Europe a great price and a quick delivery can be obtained by ordering it from NKON. They have the lastest FW and HW version in stock (or at least they had when I ordered mine 2 weeks ago).


Thanks, I ordered some LiIons from nkon before. But now the MC3000 comes from hobbyking in Netherlands. Already arrived in Germany. I will report, when it arrives tomorrow...
edit: Arrived now and FW: 1.13 HW:>=1.3
Seems okay, huh?


----------



## fneuf

Based on the illustration of this product on their website, it at least looks like they have the latest HW revision. You should be good.


----------



## kreisl

Ravel said:


> (I do not know if you can power and get the data to DEX at the same time though _the_ USB cable,
> I suppose so but did not try)
> 
> Did not notice two devices.


(btw i am on vacation until the end of AO2018, if ne1 wonders why i haven't been posting for weeks)

yes it works, one short USB (charge) cable to power raspi3 (rated 2.5A) from the mc3k usb output (rated 2.1A) and at the same time running DEX on the raspi3 (rated 2.5A) logging mc3k through another USB (data) cable. i use this setup all the time, so yes it works. at the same time i stream music on the raspi.

in DEX you can choose "MC3000" or "MC3000 Set". The difference is how DEX internally processes and saves the data. I find the latter more convenient because it lets the user save an entire complex DEX session with a single click.

i documented the installation of older DEX version in #19 and the installation of new DEX version in #21 of my raspi story time thread :naughty:


----------



## kreisl

STIXXXXX said:


> edit: Arrived now and FW: 1.13 HW:>=1.3
> Seems okay, huh?



yours is the latest. nice.

does anything happen when you long-press the <ENTER> key on HW in SETUP?


----------



## STIXXXXX

kreisl said:


> yours is the latest. nice.
> 
> does anything happen when you long-press the <ENTER> key on HW in SETUP?



Yeah, found this out randomly as soon as I unboxed it  (I scrolled through the options and wanted to save at the end - wondered, if I had seen this in the broken model before)
Showing the Mac-Adress...


----------



## kreisl

STIXXXXX said:


> Showing the Mac-Adress...


Hmm what's that? Got a cell phone pic?


----------



## STIXXXXX

kreisl said:


> Hmm what's that? Got a cell phone pic?


??
Well, it shows HW-Version >=1.3 After longpress it shows the mac-address...
Was there any unit showing >=1.4 around? Or was it just printed on the PCB? I can´t remember my old MC3k...


----------



## kreisl

STIXXXXX said:


> ??


Hehe. Would be cool to see a photo is all.

( Exact hw version is printed on PCB only. )
(( Yours could be 1.5 or something. Which'd be still Greater Or Equal than 1.3 as the LCD shows ))


----------



## Wrongway

Ravel said:


> I posted a recipe to run DEX on raspi (see first page of thread for the link)
> Did you use it ? Did you struggle with something else ?



I did see the recipe Ravel and it was very useful. I had worked with Raspberry Pi's a bit but there was still areas I am unfamiliar with. I have SSH'd into them before but was my first attempt at using VNC. I initially tried running it from SSH which didn't work of course.



kreisl said:


> yes it works, one short USB (charge) cable to power raspi3 (rated 2.5A) from the mc3k usb output (rated 2.1A) and at the same time running DEX on the raspi3 (rated 2.5A) logging mc3k through another USB (data) cable. i use this setup all the time, so yes it works. at the same time i stream music on the raspi.
> 
> in DEX you can choose "MC3000" or "MC3000 Set". The difference is how DEX internally processes and saves the data. I find the latter more convenient because it lets the user save an entire complex DEX session with a single click.
> 
> i documented the installation of older DEX version in #19 and the installation of new DEX version in #21 of my raspi story time thread :naughty:



It was a very interesting read 
I now have the Pi powered from the MC3000 and its working great. I am using "MC3000" and not "MC3000SET". Still don't fully understand the differences but it's working so I am happy.


----------



## STIXXXXX

kreisl said:


> Hehe. Would be cool to see a photo is all


Want a photo of a MAC-address? 
Ok, Upload one tomorrow..


----------



## kreisl

STIXXXXX said:


> Want a photo of a MAC-address?


----------



## STIXXXXX

STIXXXXX said:


> Want a photo of a MAC-address?


----------



## kreisl

Wow.

Looks legit 

Thanks so much for sharing!

@fneuf , you can produce MAC on LCD like this too?


----------



## Ravel

kreisl said:


> Wow.
> 
> Looks legit
> 
> Thanks so much for sharing!
> 
> @fneuf , you can produce MAC on LCD like this too?


I cannot... but I do not care too much 
FW 1.12 (I updated it once)
HW >= 1.13


----------



## fneuf

kreisl said:


> Wow.
> 
> Looks legit
> 
> Thanks so much for sharing!
> 
> @fneuf , you can produce MAC on LCD like this too?


I can & I could. Or at least I did when I first received it and played with it.
Right now I can't as it slowly cycling some non-LSD Ds my girlfriend had sadisticly abandoned to their sad & certain death for years. At first patients were showing flat encephalograms and after several electroshocks pulses timidly appeared with even up to a whooping 5mAh. Now their voltage curves are back to normal and are in the 600 mark. So intense to witness emotionwise.

Do you want a pic also or did you only wished to verify if mine can also show MAC?


----------



## kreisl

fneuf said:


> So intense to witness emotionwise.





( No, i was just curious if yours could show MAC too. It means that it's the latest build. :huh: )


----------



## fneuf

I have a curious question. Would there be any way to authorize the user to custom set his own charging algorithm and parameters with the MC3000?
That would be the uber level of control and power in a charger, but might be dangerous (to some extent) or difficult to implement (from a GUI standpoint).
Let say I'm not strictly speaking of the algorithm (though I know there is one existing request here around an alternative algorithm for NiMh), but more to give the user a better controls of some parameters, like charging voltage.

I have a 9.6v 230mAh PowerEx LSD battery, and would like to properly balance charge it. The only method I can think of is to use a very low charging current (at max C/10) and give it some hours of charging. However my hobby charger, a Q6+, doesn't allow me to set charge current lower than 0.1A. Given the parameters resolution of the MC3000, my eyes are looking at the SkyRC for that purpose. But I'd have to select an appropriate charge voltage of 11,6v. Hence my first question. Q.E.D.


----------



## HKJ

fneuf said:


> I have a 9.6v 230mAh PowerEx LSD battery, and would like to properly balance charge it. The only method I can think of is to use a very low charging current (at max C/10) and give it some hours of charging. However my hobby charger, a Q6+, doesn't allow me to set charge current lower than 0.1A. Given the parameters resolution of the MC3000, my eyes are looking at the SkyRC for that purpose. But I'd have to select an appropriate charge voltage of 11,6v. Hence my first question. Q.E.D.



The SkyRC have no way of delivering that kind of voltage, a power supply with a resistor would be a better solution.


----------



## maukka

For these sort of odd charging needs a cheap power supply is very handy. Take a look at the RD Tech DPS models.


----------



## fneuf

Those products looks really interesting, I'll have a look at them. Thanks!


----------



## HKJ

fneuf said:


> Those products looks really interesting, I'll have a look at them. Thanks!



I have been reviewing two of them:
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Power DPS5015 UK.html
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Power DPH3205 UK.html


----------



## Albert_

It seems the MC3000 Android App is limited to Android OS version 4.3 and higher?

I have an rugged Android Phone 4G LTE running Android version 4.1x. Smartphone is not all that old, however the manufacture Nec-Casio stopped producing the phone so there's no OS update.

So I'm out of luck running the MC3000 app unless I find an Android device running Android version 4.3 or higher?

4.1 came out approx. the same time as Android 4.3.1 (Jelly Bean)

I'm wondering if there's some sort of PC Android emulator that would be able to run the MC3000 app?


----------



## HKJ

Albert_ said:


> I'm wondering if there's some sort of PC Android emulator that would be able to run the MC3000 app?



Why would you run the android app. on a PC, there is much better PC apps. for logging data from the MC3000.


----------



## Albert_

I guess just to try it out and see how it compares.

For just regular use I need a simple app that works better than the MC3000 monitor that's sort of useless running on my PC due to lack of GUI & screen sizing controls.

I don't believe the DataExplore yet has MC3000 user control?

IMO, the MC3000 needs an app that's able to both control and monitor. I have a difficult time using the LCD menus if unable to find my reading glasses. Would prefer to control the MC3000 from a PC or connected device with better software menus, possibly that could be to a degree configured and programmed by the user.


----------



## HKJ

Albert_ said:


> I guess just to try it out and see how it compares.
> 
> For just regular use I need a simple app that works better than the MC3000 monitor that's sort of useless running on my PC due to lack of GUI & screen sizing controls.



That is not the only PC app for the MC3000.


----------



## Albert_

Perhaps you could enlighten me to other PC software apps?


----------



## HKJ

Albert_ said:


> Perhaps you could enlighten me to other PC software apps?



The one I know is called dataexplorer: http://www.nongnu.org/dataexplorer/ and is called DEX in this thread (There are many references to it). My review of MC3000 also has a link to it.


----------



## Ravel

Albert_ said:


> I guess just to try it out and see how it compares.
> 
> I don't believe the DataExplore yet has MC3000 user control?
> 
> IMO, the MC3000 needs an app that's able to both control and monitor. I have a difficult time using the LCD menus if unable to find my reading glasses. Would prefer to control the MC3000 from a PC or connected device with better software menus, possibly that could be to a degree configured and programmed by the user.



No user control from DEX.
I believe this is on purpose, it was a bit discussed in the thread I think.
An earlier version could start the MC3000 (starting to log started the Mc3000)

You can save "the 30 programs" with DEX, but no editing.
On purpose again.


----------



## Albert_

*MC3000 settings charging NiMh AA, Eneloop & Tenergy*

Hello,

It's been a quite a while since I've used NiMH or NiCD batteries. I've been using mostly non-rechargeable Alkaline and Lithium AA's.

However I have some outdoor and mobile equipment that requires AA's and have became tired of replacing the non-rechargable batteries and decided to give some NiMH a try again.

I purchased the multi-chemistry MC3000 to mainly charge my Lithiums, but since I still have some mobile and non-mobile equipment that relies mostly on AAs. Such as e.g. a handheld Magellan GPS receiver that accepts two AA, but has no battery charging capabilities. 

I decided to purchase a 4 pack of Eneloop 2000mha AAs and at the same time purchased a couple of 4 packs of the Tenergy Premium 2500mha AAs.

Looking at MC3000 settings I'm finding different settings for NiMH and Eneloop.

I'm wondering if I should first break in the Eneloop and Tenergy AA batteries?, as there's a Break-In setting under Mode: 

There's also a Battery Type: setting which defaults to standard AA.

I'm uncertain about the rest of the settings.

I suppose I could setup the MC3000 in dummy mode would be sufficient enough, however I'm trying to learn more about charging NiMH as my previous NiMH/NiCD chargers, not used very often, were dummy chargers without any charge settings.


----------



## fmc1

*Re: MC3000 settings charging NiMh AA, Eneloop & Tenergy*



Albert_ said:


> Hello,
> 
> It's been a quite a while since I've used NiMH or NiCD batteries. I've been using mostly non-rechargeable Alkaline and Lithium AA's.
> 
> However I have some outdoor and mobile equipment that requires AA's and have became tired of replacing the non-rechargable batteries and decided to give some NiMH a try again.
> 
> I purchased the multi-chemistry MC3000 to mainly charge my Lithiums, but since I still have some mobile and non-mobile equipment that relies mostly on AAs. Such as e.g. a handheld Magellan GPS receiver that accepts two AA, but has no battery charging capabilities.
> 
> I decided to purchase a 4 pack of Eneloop 2000mha AAs and at the same time purchased a couple of 4 packs of the Tenergy Premium 2500mha AAs.
> 
> Looking at MC3000 settings I'm finding different settings for NiMH and Eneloop.
> 
> I'm wondering if I should first break in the Eneloop and Tenergy AA batteries?, as there's a Break-In setting under Mode:
> 
> There's also a Battery Type: setting which defaults to standard AA.
> 
> I'm uncertain about the rest of the settings.
> 
> I suppose I could setup the MC3000 in dummy mode would be sufficient enough, however I'm trying to learn more about charging NiMH as my previous NiMH/NiCD chargers, not used very often, were dummy chargers without any charge settings.



The eneloops are straight forward. They need no break in and yes the mc3000 has a break in mode. Set Type to eneloop, model to AA Std. The default values are fine for everything else except for maybe time. I don’t remember what the default time is but 300 should be fine. The 2500mAh Tenergy AA’s are rated the same as eneloop AA pros so you could make it easy for yourself and choose model AA Pro to charge them and leave the defaults. If you want to make a program for the Tenergys I would do Type NiMh, Cap 2700, C.Cur 1.25A, Targ. V 1.65V, Delta 3mv, Temp 45, Time 300.


----------



## Ravel

*Re: MC3000 settings charging NiMh AA, Eneloop & Tenergy*

DEX 3.3.1 released
https://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=8970


----------



## fneuf

*Re: MC3000 settings charging NiMh AA, Eneloop & Tenergy*

Have someone tried to charge rechargeable coin cells, such as LIR2032, with the MC3000?
Lowest setable charge current being 50mA, this is close to a 1C charge on those cells. Looks roughly adequate on first sight.

EDIT:
after some researchs, found this occurence of conversation



B-2Admirer said:


> *kreisl*, is it possible to set the charging current low enough to safely charge LIR2032 and LIR2025 cells with that dirty trick? And what about the discharge current (to measure actual capacity)?





kreisl said:


> Here is a datasheet, it quotes 35mA max current:
> http://www.powerstream.com/p/Lir2032.pdf
> 
> I checked the manual. The dirty trick is basically nothing but setting the termination current to the lowest parameter possible, TERMINATION: Zero. With a fully discharged coin cell the charger would still start with 0.05A, which is higher than the 35mA coin cell spec. For the sake of experimentation and out of curiosity, i would try this charge test if i had such a coin cell. Or better, i would call the engineers at that battery manufacturing site and ask about my experiment.
> 
> The point is, _if _there were _actual _need to have lower minimum starting currents than |0.05A| and |-0.05A|, then one would have to make a strong convincing case. Of course it'd be, in theory, possible to alter the firmware code in order to lower these 2 minimum values. The MC3000 has high enough accuracy and resolution to control currents smaller than 50mA but .. let's leave it like that. Sky's arbitrary choice of the 0.05A limit looks good on paper and rings well in the ears.
> 
> For discharging, similar trick and thoughts apply. It should be possible to fully discharge this coin cell to determine its maximum capacity. Safely.


I have an even dirtier trick to propose: how does one activate trickle charging on LiIon programming?:devil:
This would allow to define sub 50mA current charge rates.


----------



## Albert_

fmc1 said:


> The eneloops are straight forward. They need no break in and yes the mc3000 has a break in mode. Set Type to eneloop, model to AA Std. The default values are fine for everything else except for maybe time. I don’t remember what the default time is but 300 should be fine. The 2500mAh Tenergy AA’s are rated the same as eneloop AA pros so you could make it easy for yourself and choose model AA Pro to charge them and leave the defaults. If you want to make a program for the Tenergys I would do Type NiMh, Cap 2700, C.Cur 1.25A, Targ. V 1.65V, Delta 3mv, Temp 45, Time 300.



I'm going to attempt to compare the Eneloops 2000mah to the Tenergy 2500mah using the MC3000. From what I've read the Eneloops are superior however I want to test for myself differences between the two NiMH AAs. The cost for a 12 pack of Eneloops 2000mah is the same as a 12 pack of Tenergy Supreme 2500mah.


----------



## Albert_

Received the Tenergy 2500s today and currently have four of them in MC3000s Break-in program mode with the other settings to their defaults.

New from the package the batteries are at around 1.2x. volts each. 

I also am running Dex, however not familiar with Dex I'm currently reading through the manual and assuming that DEX logging is turned on by default? 

I'm attempting to compare the Tenergy 2500s to the Eneloop 2000s, which will allow me to become more familiar with Dex and the MC3000.

I was able to eventually able to change the temperature reading output from Centigrade to Fahrenheit from DEX's Device Properties Editor.

Individual battery slot temperature readings are around ~30 deg. F and system temperature is reading at ~318 deg F. which is too high iirc it system temperature should be around 185 deg F?

After checking the MC3000 temperature settings, it was set to Centigrade so I switched it to Fahrenheit. Now Dex is back to having mixed temperature output both in F (Fahrenheit) and C (Centigrade) Combi-5 the system temperature is Fahrenheit however individual slots the temp. output is back to Centigrade.

From Dex. Device Properties editor I have any temperature settings set to F (Fahrenheit) where I entered a "F" in the temperature setting box.

From the digital tab system temperature showing to be ~306 deg F 

With my 1080p monitor Dex is sorta difficult to read as my system fonts even though set to extra large Dex fonts are much smaller.

From what I can read and determine individual battery temperatures when Combi-5 and all active slots selected is around 80 deg. F.

When I select an individual slot e.g. Slot 1 and 1 - Continuous data the Battery temperature is showing to be above 800 deg. F.

Perhaps I'm using and/or reading Dex incorrectly but the temperature readings don't appear to be consistent and I think both temperature outputs are incorrect?

Is there some sort of Dex font setting so I'm able to better read the tabular output displays and configuration boxes?


----------



## Meyer

fneuf said:


> Those products looks really interesting, I'll have a look at them. Thanks!


Open firmware for DPS Modules


----------



## LiteTheWay

So is this MAC address business an indication of:

- the latest HW build - in which case how is this build different from the one I got from NKON in August 2016 which was then
the latest HW build with all the problematic bits fixed?

- or really an indication of FW?

Mine shows FW 1.10 - I have not updated it but know I can. Mine also shows HW 1.4+. I can't make it show MAC address however.

I know none of this really matters but am interested anyway. So Kreisl ....... ?




kreisl said:


> ( No, i was just curious if yours could show MAC too. It means that it's the latest build. :huh: )


----------



## Albert_

Tried switching temperature settings from MC3000 and Dex to "C" Centigrade.

Temperature reading from individual slots (slot 1 - 4) and Comb-5 (All active slots) is around ~250 deg C for both battery and system temperatures.

I guess I don't really require any battery or system temperature data. However I'm finding Dex not to be so useful because the fonts are too small to read the data output and menus.

Perhaps a better option would be to save and send logged data to a database program such as Excel.


----------



## paulantoine

Hello

Thanks for the incredible amount of information I've found in this thread !

I received a MC3000 a week ago. I have been playing with it and many batteries since.

I find the app with the curves + IR measurement very userful to understand what happens with bad or (very) old cells. I've sorted hopeless dead batteries from other than can be still used for low current needs.

All in all I'm very pleased with this charger.

PA


----------



## viperxp

Got the charger today (from GB), here are some observations :

1. Size - I was expecting it to be huge, but it is bearable. Not much bigger than my MAHA.
2. Played with it a bit today - works as it should, during charging on moderate currents fan never started working.
3. FW 1.13 HW > 1.3 . No mysterious MAC display option ....
4. Connected it to the PC, working good with W10 64 bit. Tried only the MC3000 monitor, will get to data explorer later. The software itself is very limited, no option to start/stop only one slot and so on.
5. Overall satisfied with the purchase. Even several hours of reading this thread and reading the manual did not prepare me to all the possible settings of the charger.
6. No complains whatsoever about the quality of plastics, feels almost premium.
7. The buttons are super noisy, clicking a button in a room with a sleeping person is very tricky (and risky).
8. My PC did not detect the charger while connected to USB3 port, worked without a problem on USB2.

Now to questions

1. I have a cat, and a kid that touches everything he gets his hands on. The USB connector does not seem like it could take a lot of beating. Have anyone found some creative solution of securing the USB cable inside the socket?
I am thinking about thermal glue al around the connector, it would look uggly but will keep things safe. Is there a better solution by anyone?
2. How you are managing your programs ? I mean for example 1-10 charge ,11 -20 discharge, 21-30 cycle/experimental ? Or 1-10 nimh, 11-20 lithium, 21-30 eneloop? It's very interesting.

Overall meanwhile I am very happy with the purchase, it surely does worth the money they ask for it.


----------



## Ravel

viperxp said:


> Got the charger today (from GB), here are some observations :
> 30 cycle/experimental ? Or 1-10 nimh, 11-20 lithium, 21-30 eneloop? It's very interesting.
> 
> Overall meanwhile I am very happy with the purchase, it surely does worth the money they ask for it.



Ranked by most usage, and by type AA, AAA, the newish one, and the very old.
But I have an excel spreadsheet of the 30 programs (needed if you flash a new firmware)
and handy to see if programs are not about the same


----------



## Ravel

Albert_ said:


> Tried switching temperature settings from MC3000 and Dex to "C" Centigrade.
> 
> Temperature reading from individual slots (slot 1 - 4) and Comb-5 (All active slots) is around ~250 deg C for both battery and system temperatures.
> 
> I guess I don't really require any battery or system temperature data. However I'm finding Dex not to be so useful because the fonts are too small to read the data output and menus.
> 
> Perhaps a better option would be to save and send logged data to a database program such as Excel.



These Temp make no sense (I understand only Celcius, not F)
Is this 250 C or 25.0 ? Look carefully at the scale, try to change it.

Much less likely, you are using an old version of DEX, just at the time temperature
became available (3.2.7 or 3.2.8 maybe)

It is surprising you cannot see well the data in DEX
You better post pictures and explanation about your windows version

Excel : indeed you can since DEX can export data as CSV files


----------



## Albert_

Ravel said:


> These Temp make no sense (I understand only Celcius, not F)
> Is this 250 C or 25.0 ? Look carefully at the scale, try to change it.
> 
> Much less likely, you are using an old version of DEX, just at the time temperature
> became available (3.2.7 or 3.2.8 maybe)
> 
> It is surprising you cannot see well the data in DEX
> You better post pictures and explanation about your windows version
> 
> Excel : indeed you can since DEX can export data as CSV files



Dex version 3.3.1 

The *Fahrenheit scale* is a temperature scale based on one proposed in 1724 by Amsterdam-based physicist Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686–1736), after whom the scale is named.[1]​ It uses the *degree Fahrenheit* (symbol: °F) as the unit

The lower defining point, 0 °F, was established as the temperature of a solution of brine made from equal parts of ice and salt. Further limits were established as the melting point of ice (32 °F) and his best estimate of the average human body temperature (96 °F, about 2.6 °F less than the modern value due to a later redefinition of the scale).[2]​ The scale is now usually defined by two fixed points: the temperature at which water freezes into ice is defined as 32 °F, and the boiling point of water is defined to be 212 °F, a 180 °F separation, as defined at sea level and standard atmospheric pressure. By the end of the 20th century, Fahrenheit was used as the official temperature scale only in the United States (including its unincorporated territories), its freely associated states in the Western Pacific (Palau, the Federated States of Micronesia and the Marshall Islands), the Bahamas, Belize, and the Cayman Islands[3]​. All other countries in the world now use the Celsius scale, defined since 1954 by absolute zero being −273.15 °C and the triple point of water being at 0.01 °C.[4]​



_United States customary units are a system of measurements commonly used in the United States. The United States customary system (USCS or USC) developed from English units which were in use in the British Empire before the U.S. became an independent country. However, the United Kingdom's system of measures was overhauled in 1824 to create the imperial system, changing the definitions of some units. Therefore, while many U.S. units are essentially similar to their Imperial counterparts, there are significant differences between the systems. However, in the U.S. the term "imperial" is often used in error when referring to a U.S. customary unit.
_
When I look at a thermometer here in the US it normally is in Fahrenheit, where some may also include Centigrade, but I think in my mind as temperature being in Fahrenheit rather than centigrade measurements.

I'm uncertain why the temperature readings from Dex are being output incorrectly.

Here are some pics of Dex. with everything set to Fahrenehit.

I upgraded my monitor to a NEC V323-AVT 1920 x 1080p. After upgrading I needed to change Windows DPI scaling to a custom size of 168 or 175 % so I'm able to read various Windows screens.

However some apps changing the DPI scaling has adverse effect on the programs display boxes being too large, too small or the size of the fonts won't adjust to a native resolution of 1920 x 1080.

Dex does allow to change font size for some of it's output screens with varying results.

My main concern is the battery and system temperature output. I'm not getting tempertures that appear to be within MC3000 specifications. 

MC3000 nominal temperature ranges.

Battery Temperature: 20°C ~ 70°C safety cut-off (+ safety net) (68 deg. F ~ 158 deg F.) 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Temperature: 85°C safety net (185 deg. F)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operating Temperature: 0°C ~ 40°C ventilated room (32 deg. F ~ 104 deg. F) 













Dex Device Properties Editor becomes difficult to read with my current monitor and graphic settings of a native 1920 x 1080 resolution.


----------



## zeroair

Is it possible to turn off the "beep on completion"? I have both system sound options set to OFF and the unit still beeps on completion. This is extremely annoying [to my loving wife].

I have searched this thread (and elsewhere). 

Thanks.


----------



## Ravel

zeroair said:


> Is it possible to turn off the "beep on completion"? I have both system sound options set to OFF and the unit still beeps on completion. This is extremely annoying [to my loving wife].
> 
> I have searched this thread (and elsewhere).
> 
> Thanks.


AFAIK, you can turn off every sound including beep on completion
Do not remember where in the setup menu


----------



## Ravel

What are FW and HW version (if somebody does know if this can impact Temperature measurement)
since you have an ok version of DEX

Did you try to change the display in dex
Right click on left where square boxes are, and select number of digits (if I recall)
zou will have options like 0.000 00.00 000.0 0000 and so on


----------



## zeroair

Ravel said:


> AFAIK, you can turn off every sound including beep on completion
> Do not remember where in the setup menu



Seems like in Dummy mode, the unit will always beep on completion. 

In Advanced mode, turning off beep will in fact turn off every beep. 

I did not try the middle mode.


----------



## viperxp

I noticed small problem in the IOS application:

Small problem - in ni-mh instead of "Delta V" there is "Detal V"

And some questions

when exactly is the internal resistance test is being conducted during charge? In some intervals? What about discharge process?
if I set .. delta V of 0V, for how long the delta V of 0V should continue before charge is terminated? Same question regarding charge cut current for LiIon, for how long the charge cut current should go on before the charger desides to stop the charging process?


----------



## Ravel

Albert_ said:


> My main concern is the battery and system temperature output. I'm not getting tempertures that appear to be within MC3000 specifications.
> 
> MC3000 nominal temperature ranges.
> 
> Battery Temperature: 20°C ~ 70°C safety cut-off (+ safety net) (68 deg. F ~ 158 deg F.)


Ok this is clearer to help, although you need to wait for the guru of the thread to be back

In one picture syst T is 73.5F then 809F
It makes no sense
What are the graphs like against time ?

Either you have some USB interferences (look in the thread), try to unplug USB devices,
try the MC3000 on another computer.
I remember having spikes in values using USB ports 3.0, stuff were better with 2.0.
Try other USB ports
And first of all try with a USB cable of quality (this can be an issue as well sometimes)

I looks like you can discard some misconfigurations (you did not play with multipliers
in DEX configuration)

Otherwise it could be knackered thermocouples, but this would be odd
This is why I ask for data against time

Please provide Celcius data this will be easier for some of us to interpret


----------



## Ravel

viperxp said:


> I noticed small problem in the IOS application:
> 
> Small problem - in ni-mh instead of "Delta V" there is "Detal V"
> 
> And some questions
> 
> when exactly is the internal resistance test is being conducted during charge? In some intervals? What about discharge process?
> if I set .. delta V of 0V, for how long the delta V of 0V should continue before charge is terminated? Same question regarding charge cut current for LiIon, for how long the charge cut current should go on before the charger desides to stop the charging process?


Ri at charge measured at the very beginning
dV=0 for how long ? No clue on the algorithm used. 
Could be just a set time value or something more complicated
depending on the slope before plateau is reached
Waiting for a guru input


----------



## Albert_

Ravel said:


> Ok this is clearer to help, although you need to wait for the guru of the thread to be back
> 
> In one picture syst T is 73.5F then 809F
> It makes no sense
> What are the graphs like against time ?
> 
> Either you have some USB interferences (look in the thread), try to unplug USB devices,
> try the MC3000 on another computer.
> I remember having spikes in values using USB ports 3.0, stuff were better with 2.0.
> Try other USB ports
> And first of all try with a USB cable of quality (this can be an issue as well sometimes)
> 
> I looks like you can discard some misconfigurations (you did not play with multipliers
> in DEX configuration)
> 
> Otherwise it could be knackered thermocouples, but this would be odd
> This is why I ask for data against time
> 
> Please provide Celcius data this will be easier for some of us to interpret



I'm going to keep the setup "F" Fahrenheit for now as Dex displays the same sort of off temperature readings in "C" Centigrade and I'm in the US and don't really related to centigrade.

My USB cables are of good quality and not the cheap kind that fall apart. I have been purchasing PCs and related equipment for more than 35 years. Back in the day a typical comm, hd, video, etc cable ran a min of $30.00 (in 80 dollars) and most were hand made, built by cable makers. I don't purchase junk PC and related items and have owned PC's for more than 35 years.

There is so much junk on the market today. Many of the manufactures spend more on a design that fails within a certain amount of time than they do on the actual design. Years ago the manufacturing rule was to manufacture products to last 30 years and longer and designed so a product could be easily repaired if necessary. Today manufactures design products to fail usually sometime just after the warranty or extended warranty expires. Products aren't normally designed and produced so they can be repaired, only replaced.

Anyway the MC3000's battery and system temps aren't always the same as being produced by DEX. Though Dex does seem to follow the temperature unit setting of the MC3000 with it's system temperature output.

E.g. 

Slot 1 - Batterytemp = 93/117 deg. F
Slot 1 - Systemp = 102 deg. F

Dex Analog and Digital tab produces battery temp of 800+ deg F. and a system temp of ~90 degs F.

Perhaps something in Dex is configured incorrectly? Dex's Device Property Editor shows the temperature unit as deg. "F" However at times this setting switch all by itself to "C" and then back to "F"

I'm still becoming familiar with Dex perhaps there's something I'm overlooking?

Dex has so far recognize MC3000's temperature unit setting, e.g. DEX will readout "system temperature" from tabs such as Digital and Analog based on MC3000's unit temperature setting. However from observation at the same time the temperature unit setting may or may not change from the Device Property Editor.


----------



## fmc1

Albert


Try changing Temp Unit to Fahrenheit in GSV on the charger itself and reset everything back to normal on Dex.

It worked for me. I see all correct Fahrenheit readings in Dex.


Frank


----------



## Albert_

fmc1 said:


> Albert
> 
> 
> Try changing Temp Unit to Fahrenheit in GSV on the charger itself and reset everything back to normal on Dex.
> 
> It worked for me. I see all correct Fahrenheit readings in Dex.
> 
> 
> Frank



I did try that but will give it a try again. What I'm going to do is start from scratch, completely uninstall and then re-install Dex. Make certain the charger is set for "F" Fahrenheit units. Create a usb connection from the PC and start Dex.


----------



## Albert_

Ok, a re-installation of Dex produced mixed results.

I have both Tenergy and Enveloop NiMH AAs.

Installing both type of AA with correct NiMH and Enveloop default settings from the MC3000.

The DataExporer seems to produce the correct temperature output (battery & system) with "F" Fahrenheit units after selecting "Slot" > Charge.

However when I select Combi-5 All active slots the temperature unit measurements (battery & system) are in "C" Centigrade.


----------



## viperxp

Another DEX question.

In "digital" tab the data layout is vertical, but I'd like it to be vertical. How do I achieve that?

The current layout







The layout that I'd like to achieve






Thank you


----------



## Albert_




----------



## Albert_

You're welcome.


----------



## Ravel

Albert,
A sys T of 71C is rather high, in my experience at least.
You must have the fan hurling

I have never seen more than a few C difference between batteries and sys T

And I would not run my batteries at 70C+

something is wrong

Do you have the same problem in advanced mode ?
Is the T on the MC3000 screen making sense ?

Once you have reset everything, if you still record silly T
My advice is unchanged, previous post,
you have not answer firmware and hardware version of the MC3000,
and all the tests will allow to discard potential problems

Thanks for the data
Graphs would be usefull for all channels, you can keep recording and change
settings, start and stop slots, and tell people what you wew doing including
settings and type of batteries used.

I dot not have my MC3000 at hand, cannot help more, sorry


----------



## Albert_

Ravel said:


> Albert,
> A sys T of 71C is rather high, in my experience at least.
> You must have the fan hurling
> 
> I have never seen more than a few C difference between batteries and sys T
> 
> And I would not run my batteries at 70C+
> 
> something is wrong
> 
> Do you have the same problem in advanced mode ?
> Is the T on the MC3000 screen making sense ?
> 
> Once you have reset everything, if you still record silly T
> My advice is unchanged, previous post,
> you have not answer firmware and hardware version of the MC3000,
> and all the tests will allow to discard potential problems
> 
> Thanks for the data
> Graphs would be usefull for all channels, you can keep recording and change
> settings, start and stop slots, and tell people what you wew doing including
> settings and type of batteries used.
> 
> I dot not have my MC3000 at hand, cannot help more, sorry



MC3000 was updated, a while back using a MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.13.rar file

Current versions reported by MC3000

FW version 1.3
HW version >= 1.3

Perhaps there is a slightly different HW version as I seem to remember a post with something about beta version(s)?
______

MC3000 doesn't report the same temperatures as Dex while reporting data after selecting Combi-5 which is reporting Centigrade even though the MC3000 temperature unit is set to "F" (Fahrenheit) . If I select an individual slot Dex reports temperature in "F" (Fahrenheit) (when MC3000 temp. unit is set to "F" (Fahrenheit)) with temp. measurements that appear to be nearly the same as reported by MC3000.

Apparently Dex is having problems reporting temperature while in Combi mode.

The first two pics are of Dex's Device manager temperature unit input "box". Apparently this is to allow changing the temp. unit for what ever device you have loaded. The very bottom pic is of Dex temperature output after selecting "Slot" mode. Temperatures appears to be the same as reported by MC3000, when set to a "F" (Fahrenheit) temperature unit. (note: pic temperature readings, after MC3000 has been powered on for only a short while, while the MC3000 is closer to room temperatures)

However the problem with Dex's device manager temp unit configuration may be the result of how the Dex MC3000 driver is written or possibly there are other Dex settings and configuration(s) I haven't yet come across.

Currently Dex is reporting "C" Centigrade temperature units while in combi mode and "F" (Fahrenheit) while in Slot mode. (MC3000 temp unit configured as "F" (Fahrenheit).

Dex's device manager shows all of it's temperature units as being in "C" Centigrade. This is after a re-installation.

I had previously tried changing and saving the Dex temperature units to both "C" and "F" from it's Device Manager however from previous memory recall the temp units sometimes changed back to "C" from "F" and then back again while changing MC3000's temperature unit.

Anyway Dex seems to be reporting temperatures correctly and behaving as expected while in slot mode. However the device manager temperature units have stayed in "C" centigrade even though the MC3000 is configured for "F" (Fahrenheit). Manually editing the temp. units from Dex's device manager has produced mixed results.

I haven't tested or experimented any further until I able to clarify current conditions while in Combi mode of Dex reporting "C" instead of "F" temperature units. (while MC3000 temp units are configured as to "F" and Dex's slot mode also reporting as "F" units)


----------



## Albert_

I've just starting to become familiar with Dex. The Device toolbox apparently can only be accessed when there are not any batteries installed in the MC3000. With batteries installed there is an error message that the device (MC3000) is busy and that the tool box dialog is disabled.

If there is no usb connection selecting the toolbox an error message is produced that there is no usb connection.

I'm able to access the the toolbox when there is a usb connection, without any batteries installed and no device gathering.

I'm still trying to figure out how to better display Dex's output screens and if each output screen type is editable. 

Below is a question that has been asked by Dex users. 

" ____

Hello,

I have a need to re-arrange the alignment in the "digital" tab from vertical to horizontal. I know that it can be done, just don't know how. Tried googling, making some experiments but no use.

This is the current layout (not what I am after) https://i.imgur.com/MRKmMrZ.png






And this is a picture of the layout I want to see for the "digital" tab

https://i.imgur.com/nkiSJX6.png




" ______________________


----------



## Ravel

> I have a need to re-arrange the alignment in the "digital" tab from vertical to horizontal. I know that it can be done, just don't know how. Tried googling, making some experiments but no use.



This is not explained in the manual ?
http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf

edited with link in git
http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit...taExplorer/doc/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf

edited, none of these links are the latest PDF, used instead 
https://download-mirror.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf
(Thanks Albert)


----------



## Ravel

> MC3000 doesn't report the same temperatures as Dex while reporting data after selecting Combi-5 which is reporting Centigrade even though the MC3000 temperature unit is set to "F" (Fahrenheit) . If I select an individual slot Dex reports temperature in "F" (Fahrenheit) (when MC3000 temp. unit is set to "F" (Fahrenheit)) with temp. measurements that appear to be nearly the same as reported by MC3000.



I start to understand, now I have my MC3000 at hand connected to my raspi.
I discharged batteries (Celcius graphs were correct). 
Then I loaded a charging program to all slots at once (via copy to slots menu)
Then I have setup the MC3000 to be in F (via setup menu)
Then started charging and recording data
All the T graphs are correct in combi5, values congruent to F (but indeed the label is still in C)
This label is possibly the intended one, and way DEX is intended, since it is user responsability to change the label
via device property editor I suppose
I never needed to change anything in the properties editor since I own the device
Ok I also see maybe why you cringe

In DEX, slot 1 to 4, have labels in F, as opposed to combi5, which stayed in Celcius

I need to reread all your post to understand if I understand now what is nagging you...

Since I use only Celcius I could not figure what sort of problem you had

One note of warning I use a rather old graphic template (created version DEX 3.2.8, running 3.3.1)


----------



## viperxp

Ravel said:


> This is not explained in the manual ?
> http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf



Thanks for pointing at the manual, but unfortunately does not seem so.


----------



## Ravel

viperxp said:


> Thanks for pointing at the manual, but unfortunately does not seem so.


Yep sorry, error 404

There is the git version then
http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit...taExplorer/doc/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf

Otherwise it is installed with DEX (at least with linux)


----------



## viperxp

Ravel said:


> Yep sorry, error 404
> 
> There is the git version then
> http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit...taExplorer/doc/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf
> 
> Otherwise it is installed with DEX (at least with linux)


 I downloaded the file earlier but found no hint of how can I accomplish what I want.


----------



## Ravel

viperxp said:


> I downloaded the file earlier but found no hint of how can I accomplish what I want.


I do not know if this possible.
I read a long time ago the manual and a quick read today does not show this kind of option

Neither the config file DataExplorer/DataExplorer.properties

Wild goose chase ?


----------



## Albert_

Ravel said:


> This is not explained in the manual ?
> http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf
> 
> edited with link in git
> http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit...taExplorer/doc/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf



This link for the Dex User manual should work.

http://download-mirror.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/DataExplorer - Users Guide.pdf

The question was asked by another Dex user. I've not had time to thoroughly read through the Dex manual. The user stated the configuration of the output screens that he wanted could be accomplished only he did not know how.

I could not find any reference to a horizontal / landscape view or a vertical / portrait view. However the author of the manual may have chosen to word and explain this sort of configuration differently. This becomes a problem with some documentation as the authors often follow their own and sometimes different standards when writing user manuals that related directly to certain technologies and the type of programming the software performs.

Here's a link to a battery charger monitor application I've used in the past with other battery chargers.

Currently there's no support for SkyRc MC3000 charger. It does support many other chargers such as Bantum, Imax, etc.

Logview

http://www.logview.info/lvstudio_doku/index.html

Download: http://www.logview.info/forum/index.php?pages/eng/


----------



## Ravel

Albert,

If you look at the manual and the config file mc3000.xml
(or via the menus9 you will find for combo5 the keyword 
scale_sync_ref_ordinal

The graphs configuration are driving the digital display behaviour
(This is why I asked about graphs against time, not single value or the "digital board")

So in the osciloscope / graph view, how many T scales do you have ?
They can be merged because of scale_sync_ref_ordinal

Maybe you found a bug in the way they merge labels (or multiplicators if you played with them)


----------



## viperxp

Ravel said:


> I do not know if this possible.
> I read a long time ago the manual and a quick read today does not show this kind of option
> 
> Neither the config file DataExplorer/DataExplorer.properties
> 
> Wild goose chase ?



Hey,
Well, it seems that the layout change was made with changing the program code (it's open sourse after all). The author does not want to disclose any details of how he done it and the final result.
Don't want to learn another programming language just to change some layout, but seems like I have no choice.
So no wild goose chase, it will be reasonable to efficiently use all sccreen real estate.


----------



## Albert_

Ravel said:


> Albert,
> 
> If you look at the manual and the config file mc3000.xml
> (or via the menus9 you will find for combo5 the keyword
> scale_sync_ref_ordinal
> 
> The graphs configuration are driving the digital display behaviour
> (This is why I asked about graphs against time, not single value or the "digital board")
> 
> So in the osciloscope / graph view, how many T scales do you have ?
> They can be merged because of scale_sync_ref_ordinal
> 
> Maybe you found a bug in the way they merge labels (or multiplicators if you played with them)



My MC3000 is set to outupt temperature in "F" Fahrenheit

Temperatures scales from the Graphics tab from Slot 1 there are two a System and Battery temperature

System Temp. = ~72 deg. F
Battery Temp. = ~714 deg. F

Temperature scales from the Graphics display from Combi-5 (All active slots)

Battery Temps slots 1 -4 = ~73 - ~76 deg "C" Centrigrade
System Temp. = ~81.x deg "C" centigrade

I swapped out the NiMh batteries for a set of 4 Lithiums

Previously while charging NIMH, I was able to obtain some "F" Fahrenheit output and the rest was in "C" Centigrade even though the MC3000 was configured to "F" Fahrenheit

I'm currently trying to get Dex to output temperature units in "F" Fahrenheit.

The other problem with changing from portrait to landscape mode becomes a problem if you have all or many of the combi-5 measurement selections.

The the digital and analog tabs become more easily to read with fewer selections. (deselecting some of the measured units) So it's not really that much of a problem, only if you need to select most of the Combi measurements for a comparison.

Digital and analog output seems to work ok with up to around 8 selections. With more selections both outputs become difficult or impossible to read.

I've begun to read the ms3000.xml file but haven't ever programmed in either java or xml.

Apparently "scale_sync_ref_ordinal" is a property name. I'm uncertain how its being used to configure Dex measurement display output(s).

 <property name="factor" value="0.1" type="Double" description="factor to measurement value"/>
<property name="scale_sync_ref_ordinal" value="12" 

type="Integer"/>
</Measurement>
<Settlements/>
<ReferenceGroups/>
<TransitionGroups/>
<Transitions/>
<ScoreGroups/>
</Channel>
</Channels>
<Desktop>
<property name="table_tab" value="true"/>
<property name="digital_tab" value="true"/>
<property name="analog_tab" value="true"/>
<property name="voltage_per_cell_tab" value="false"/>
<property name="utility_garphics_tab" value="false" description="UTILITY_GRAPHICS_TAB"/>
<property name="utility_device_tab" value="false" description="UTILITY_DEVICE_TAB"/>
</Desktop>
</DeviceProperties>


----------



## Ravel

Albert_ said:


> I've begun to read the ms3000.xml file but haven't ever programmed in either java or xml.
> 
> Apparently "scale_sync_ref_ordinal" is a property name. I'm uncertain how its being used to configure Dex measurement display output(s).



This is changed via the menus (device properties editor)


----------



## Albert_

In relation to temperature output all I'm able to find form the mc3000.xml file in reference to temperature output is

<unit>°C</unit> apparently a default output is in centigrade.

<name>system_temperature</name>
<symbol>Ts</symbol>
<unit>°C</unit>
<active>true</active>
<statistics min="true" max="true" avg="

I went into the properties editor and changed all the temperature units from "C" to "F" and the previous temperature unit (Centigrade) from the mc3000.xml file has been replaced by <unit>°F</unit> (Fahrenheit)

However, now DEX produces an error message upon gathering

" A serial communications to the device showing errors: ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException - 8Disharge."

I did switch to a discharge and then float mode however the same error is being produced while trying to gather.

I think I'm going to reinstall Dex as something may have been messed up with it's configuration.

Then try again changing the temperature units to "F" Fahrenheit. Previously trying to edit the temp units resulted in some mixed "C" Centigrade and "F" Fahrenheit output.

This time I'll observe more closely and pay attention to any changes made to the mc3000.xlm file.


----------



## Albert_

After re-installing Dex Device properties pop up screen chose to use MC3000-set after selecting MC3000 and MC3000-set.

I can switch to MC3000 but for now will use the MC3000-set output configuration.

All the battery and system temperature units were edited and changed to "F" (Fahrenheit) using the device properties editor.

Dex displays a temperature output to be around ~800 deg. F (+/-) for the individual slots and combi modes for both battery and system temperatures.

MC3000-set.xml file shows unit for temp. measurement to be deg. F (Fahrenheit). 

<Measurement>
<name>battery_temperature</name>
<symbol>Tb</symbol>
<unit>°F</unit>
<active>true</active>
<statistics min="true" max="true" avg="true"


----------



## joelbnyc

Can anyone estimate how much time it would take a nonexpert (but with a bit of math/programming competence) to set up MC3000 v1.4 windows software, for recording discharge curves to see if they roughly match HKJ/lygte's battery comparator curves?

Or would something like the West Mountain Radio CBA IV be better suited for this?


----------



## viperxp

joelbnyc said:


> Can anyone estimate how much time it would take a nonexpert (but with a bit of math/programming competence) to set up MC3000 v1.4 windows software, for recording discharge curves to see if they roughly match HKJ/lygte's battery comparator curves?
> 
> Or would something like the West Mountain Radio CBA IV be better suited for this?



Hey,
From what I understand, you need to be good with Excel. MC30000 monitor and/or DEX provide all the nessesary data in order to plot the kind of chart that HKJ has on his site, the question is how to define it.
If it's important to you, I'd sujjest contacting HKJ, and asking him how does he produce his charts and trying to reproduce with MC3000 data. If you need some sample data, many of the thread readers incuding me will be happy to provide you some.


----------



## terjee

viperxp said:


> if it's important to you, I'd sujjest contacting HKJ, and asking him how does he produce his charts and trying to reproduce with MC3000 data.



HKJ does have a couple of pages up about his test setup and methodology.

I’d imagine throwing “test setup site:lygte-info.dk” or something similar at google would dig out those pages. Can’t recall if they’re detailed enough about the actual calculations though, but there isn’t a lot of heavy math.


----------



## joelbnyc

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yeah I looked at HKJ's set up, well beyond my budget or capabilities  http://lygte-info.dk/info/myLabSetup UK.html

I just want to see if some cells are real or not, so out of curiosity I bought both the Opus and SkyRC chargers to run discharge tests. 

I may have to return the Opus due to the power supply/QC issues.

HKJ's test of the SkyRC show some plots made from the software of voltage against time during discharge- useful, but hopefully the SkyRC or that open source Data software can also plot voltage against mAh discharged like in HKJ's comparator curves- I would imagine this must be doable, if only up to 1A as opposed to the much higher capabilities of a CBA.

The 30Q and VTC6 cells are desirable because the voltage stays so high for so long (trying to locate button tops for use in the Olight X7- US dealers are sold out currently)- fakes should have far saggier discharge curves.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hey guys, so it's been awhile since i followed this thread and i been looking to get a new charger. So far, this charger still wins when it comes to how flexible it is and might give this charger another chance. So questions.

1.If i was to buy the mc3000, how would i know i am getting the latest one with reinforced posts?

2.What sellers i should look for warranty here in the U.S?

Thanks.


----------



## rodorr

*Is there a master list of battery charging parameters?*

I have been looking over this gigantic thread for a while now and I have garnered quite a bit of information from it. Thanks to everyone for contributing. I recently purchased an MC3000 from a site called Illumn.com. When I received it I found that it was the older model, prior to June of 2016. That didn't make me particularly happy. I emailed the people at Ilumn.com and I must say they were very helpful. I first asked for an RMA which they provided but rather than go through the hassle of returning I asked if they could provide me with an updated case and they have supplied me with one without any problems. It is currently in transit to me and I will be installing it upon arrival. Now to my question. Is there a master list of charging/discharging suggested parameters for the various chemistry's? I've seen a few individual ones scattered about but it would be nice if they were all in one place. If there isn't one currently, if I have the time, I will try to create a table of various chemistry's and possibly the different sizes within each chemistry. Again I would like to say this is a great forum.


----------



## viperxp

*Re: Is there a master list of battery charging parameters?*



rodorr said:


> I have been looking over this gigantic thread for a while now and I have garnered quite a bit of information from it. Thanks to everyone for contributing. I recently purchased an MC3000 from a site called Illumn.com. When I received it I found that it was the older model, prior to June of 2016. That didn't make me particularly happy. I emailed the people at Ilumn.com and I must say they were very helpful. I first asked for an RMA which they provided but rather than go through the hassle of returning I asked if they could provide me with an updated case and they have supplied me with one without any problems. It is currently in transit to me and I will be installing it upon arrival. Now to my question. Is there a master list of charging/discharging suggested parameters for the various chemistry's? I've seen a few individual ones scattered about but it would be nice if they were all in one place. If there isn't one currently, if I have the time, I will try to create a table of various chemistry's and possibly the different sizes within each chemistry. Again I would like to say this is a great forum.



Hi Rodorr,
Well, I am very happy to be a part of this great forum myself.
As for your question, for the list is quite problematic. Let me explain. Different cells have different optimal charging parameters, sometimes suggested by the cells manufacturer, and sometimes found by trial and error by the different users. And there are also different user preferences - one would not care much about the charging time - care more about battery life - meaning that such user would go with minimal possible current (but enough for catching the -dV for ni-mh) and the other would charge with the maximum safe current for the cell, in order to charge as fast as possible. So what I suggest is asking for suggestions for different cells, and you will receive some. And when you compile the master table - add "notes" column that will explain why exactly did you chose the particular setting that you chose.


----------



## rodorr

I guess maybe a better approach would be a collection of manufacturers pages for various chemistry's and sizes as a starting point. Maybe a template that contains all of the parameters of the MC3000 and the values filled in for a specific chemistry and size along with the reasoning for the suggested values for charging, discharging, break in, refresh, cycling etc. If anyone has something like this maybe they can post it, in the mean time I'll see what I can work up. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can anyone tell me which seller has the updated version?

Thanks.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

This company in Holland has the latest version: https://ru.nkon.nl/charger/skyrc-mc3000.html


MarioJP said:


> Can anyone tell me which seller has the updated version? Thanks.


----------



## joelbnyc

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> This company in Holland has the latest version: https://ru.nkon.nl/charger/skyrc-mc3000.html



And what exactly are the differences? Just reinforced posts so the sliders are less likely to break?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So i emailed hkequipment and asked if they have the revised version of the charger. They attached a pic of the screen. Is this the updated version?? If so, i will go ahead and place the order when they have it in stock.


----------



## rodorr

Yes, as long as the company you are buying it from hasn't updated the firmware after they received their stock. As far as I know hkequipment wouldn't do that, so it should be the updated model made after June of 2016.


----------



## joelbnyc

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Is this the updated version??


Illumn listing says hardware 1.4, and nkon (not us) says hardware 1.5.

I don't think the firmware matters so much, it can be updated.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



joelbnyc said:


> Illumn listing says hardware 1.4, and nkon (not us) says hardware 1.5.
> 
> I don't think the firmware matters so much, it can be updated.


Yea me either, but what about the housing. Reinforced pins? I did notice that the display is slightly yellow than the one i originally bought. Mine was blue.


----------



## fmc1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Is this the updated version??



Unfortunately the HW Version ≥1.3 line on the screen is coded in the firmware v1.13. It has nothing to do with what rev. case you have. If it came loaded with fw v1.13 from the factory then it’s almost guaranteed it’s the newer case because of the time line. The new cases came out June 2016 and the fw v1.13 came out December 2016. Keep in mind that there is the possibility of the dealer upgrading the firmware in an older unit, if they did that the screen shot you showed would be identical. Post #3552 explains the June 2016 hardware changes in great detail.
FYI the two units I bought from dc workshop are the post June 2016 models with the stronger pins.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The fact that it is out of stock could mean that more than likely will end up with the updated housing when hke gets new shipments in. I mean June 2016, the older models should be cleared by now right?


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I mean June 2016, the older models should be cleared by now right?



You would hope so. Unless they have updated the FW themselves in which case you would not know since as mentioned above, the HW number that is displayed is hard-coded into the FW version - and of course someone who wants to remove the remainder of their old stock would update the FW. But NKON (according to kreisl) has had ONLY the June 2016 version since around July 2016. As suggested, have a look at post 3552.


----------



## joelbnyc

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Yea me either, but what about the housing. Reinforced pins? I did notice that the display is slightly yellow than the one i originally bought. Mine was blue.



Correction of my post above, apparently the firmware can be an indicator of the improved build quality:

FW 1.10 it is def the "June Version," 

FW greater than 1.10, it is either June or an old version with updated FW. An See kreisl's post #3613 #3.

FW less than 1.10, it is the old version.

Is there any other way to determine whether we have a model with the reinforced posts, short of opening it up?

EDIT, From post #3552, here are ways to determine from just the exterior, whether case is post June 2016 reinforced post model. I think this bears repeating because apparently many vendors are still selling the pre-June 2016 inventory without updated case, and many customers are looking for the post June model 

(old model on left, new on right)

1) New Model has shiny Silvery Coating on sliders/rails/metal contacts, and no lube/grease on sliders.






2) Tint of display is less blue (old on left, new on right)- although the model I got has FW 1.03 so old, but the tint doesnt look so blue to me, so maybe this is useless to know unless have both old and new to compare)





3) Recessed Area on bottom for Label Sticker (new case)


----------



## terjee

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



7histology said:


> But NKON (according to kreisl) has had ONLY the June 2016 version since around July 2016. As suggested, have a look at post 3552.



Around July 8th 2016 to be exact. 

I should know, since I got the last with the weak posts. At that time, they were waiting for fresh stock (with improved posts). I should add that they might have been shipping some good units before that as well. I think mine was part of some old inventory, but they were kind enough put it back for sale when I asked when they were expecting more units.

The one with bad posts is in semi-daily use still, after getting an upgraded shell, shipped free of charge from NKON.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I also emailed RCJuice which happens to only have 2 left in stock and this is what they said

"Mario,


Though we are the largest SkyRC dealer in the US this is a charger we just started carrying.* We have sold 30 or 40 of them and have not had any issues reported to us thus far.


-John B.


RCJuice Customer Support*

RCJuice.com"


----------



## LiteTheWay

I'm going to bring this to the top in case kreisl is back.



7histology said:


> So is this MAC address business an indication of:
> 
> - the latest HW build - in which case how is this build different from the one I got from NKON in August 2016 which was then
> the latest HW build with all the problematic bits fixed?
> 
> - or really an indication of FW?
> 
> Mine shows FW 1.10 - I have not updated it but know I can. Mine also shows HW 1.4+. I can't make it show MAC address however.
> 
> I know none of this really matters but am interested anyway. So Kreisl ....... ?


----------



## Albert_

I've given up trying to use my PC and Android phone with the MC3000 and will need to rely mainly on it's built-in LCD menus, which aren't too bad to use. I've used much more difficult equipment some of which had no firmware with LCD screen. Configuration was done through pins, dip switches, etc. from pcb's.

In the old days we often would spend from days to weeks, sometimes months trying to setup and configure different types of electronics such as for telco, different types of office equipment, security equipment, equipment for financial institutions, Diebold, IBM, Sperry, etc.. Configuring different types of electronic equipment including those with bioses and firmware use to be fairly limited. Often to re-configure a bios required you pull the bios chip and reprogram it with new code using a bios chip reader/writer. This was true of many early PC that normally ran a CP/M OS and also many of the early DOS and CP/M-86 machines.

Anyway I'm currently trying to salvage 8 x 18650's from an old dell laptop battery pack. Initially the MC3000 wasn't able to recognize each of the 18650's as they were at zero voltage. (note these are really old batteries that have been sitting around in storage for years, so I'm uncertain if these cells are salvageable and will last a while or not) I've had a few 18650's that proved to be un revivable, staying at zero voltage.

Using a USB charger I have been able to bring back some of the 18650s to voltage and capacity that's acceptable for the MC3000 to recognize and start to charge installed 18650's

The MC3000 appears to have a minimum voltage where it's able to begin to charge a Lithium battery. My usb charger doesn't have any voltage readout but remember seeing from my DMM a voltage reading from around ~2 to ~2.5 volts, where the MC3000 would recognize and begin charging. At lower voltages the MC3000 produced and error "Check Voltage". I think this error occurs when a 18650 is under 2 volts?

The USB charger is for a single cell so I'm still trying get the last three 18650s back to an acceptable voltage for charging with the MC3000. Currently the last three cells, one measure around ~10-12 volts, another ~35 volts and the third one around ~70 volts. Neither the USB, MC3000 or an Opus BT C3100 charger will recognize any of the three cells. I'm not certain why there voltages started to read higher. My DMM's seemed to sort of wacky at times when measuring battery current of the dead or zero volt cells. Installing them into the usb charger seems to have waked them up. Leaving them in the usb charger up to several hours brings them back to life with voltages above 2 volts, where I then installed them into the MC3000.

The USB charger potentially takes up to 10+ mins to recognize and start to charge one of the zero volts 18650's. So it just sits there without an leds lit until if finally recognizes the cell and starts to charge it up. Perhaps feeding it some sort of current in order to wake the dead cell up.

With the MC3000 I'm using a standard charging routine for the reawakened 18650's

With some other 18650's pulled from an unused laptop battery pack I used a "refresh" routine instead.

I guess for some users all this isn't anything new, but I thought I would share my experience reviving dead 18650's for others attempting to do the same for the first time.

Specs for the batteries I'm reviving - Samsung ICR18650-22F 

(one's revived so far have held a charge ok)

Nominal Specifications ICR18650-22F

3.1 Nominal Capacity 2200mAh (0.2C discharge)
3.2 Charging Voltage 4.2V
3.3 Nominal Voltage 3.6V
3.4 Charging Method CC-CV
(constant voltage with limited current)
3.5 Charging Current Standard charge: 1100mA
Rapid charge : 2200mA
3.6 Charging Time Standard charge : 3hours
Rapid charge : 2.5hours
3.7 Max. Charge Current 2200mA
3.8 Max. Discharge Current 4400mA
3.8 Max. Discharge Current 4400mA
3.9 Discharge Cut-off Voltage 2.75V
3.10 Cell Weight 44.5g max
3.11 Cell Dimension Diameter(max.) : Φ 18.4 mm Height : 65mm max
3.12 Operating Temperature Charge : 0 to 45℃ Discharge: -20 to 60℃
3.13 Storage Temperature 1 year : -20~25℃(1*)
3 months : -20~45℃(1*)
1 month : -20~60℃(1*)
Note (1): If the cell is kept as ex-factory status(50% of charge),
the capacity recovery rate is more than 80%.

Added note: I was eventually able to awaken and charge the last three cells with the usb charger and eventually install them into the MC3000 once their voltage reached 2+ volts.

All the zero volt cells the MC3000 was able to charge to just over 4 volts, however being used cells sitting a long time I'm uncertain of their performance, i.e. capable of maintaining a charge, not easily drained from higher loads, etc.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Today i found a 1" crack running from the charging bay along the side of my MC3000, I bought mine from GB over a year ago and it was one that was affected with the broken slider pillars (brittle plastic)

I keep it wrapped in bubble wrap and stored in a tin box so it has not been dropped or anything.

So sad for such a nice charger, I will have to see if it can glue it.

Anybody else had this cracking problem?

John.


----------



## LiteTheWay

I have not seen that on either of mine. One is the 'June 2016 production' version, has all the fixes and has been used at least twice weekly since August 2016. My other one is one of the first production runs, presumably has the flaky post issue, but which is so far just fine although not now used.



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Today i found a 1" crack running from the charging bay along the side of my MC3000, I bought mine from GB over a year ago and it was one that was affected with the broken slider pillars (brittle plastic)
> 
> I keep it wrapped in bubble wrap and stored in a tin box so it has not been dropped or anything.
> 
> So sad for such a nice charger, I will have to see if it can glue it.
> 
> Anybody else had this cracking problem?
> 
> John.


----------



## Albert_

I seem to vaguely remember a while back some discussion about spare parts and/or repairs performed on a MC3000?

My MC3000 has a broken pin. I'm in the process of determining it's 3 year warranty I purchased for it. However I would like to know my options for repairing it myself.

I found this spare case from Gearbest https://www.gearbest.com/led-accessories/pp_392591.html?currency=USD&vip=760243&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0Yio6vC21wIVlF5-Ch2dWwD8EAYYASABEgLGePD_BwE

One of the pins is completely broken off and I'm not able to find the broken pin to glue back on.

I'll need to dismantle and try to figure a good method to secure the spring with a broken off pin.

Are there any particular methods people are using to hold down the slot springs where the spring pins are missing?


----------



## terjee

That looks like all you’d need, but it seems wrong to shell out that much if itMs I’ll under warranty.

It’s the top part that have the pins as part of it.

In my case, NKON shipped a box with both this cover, a a couple of goodies like new feet, if I recall correctly.

Oh, and the replacement isn’t the easiest I’ve ever done, getting everything aligned properly with the slides can be fiddly. I think most can do it with some patience, could be a challenge for some. If anyone has “old people-type shaky hands” for example, sorry I couldn’t come up with a better way to put it, then I’d rather send it in.

If you’re somewhat handy, it should be just fine, and save you from being long without the charger.

Edit to add; this thread has repair instructions on how to do it. If I recall correctly, you can just manipulate the springs with tweezers (or screwdriver) to attach it to the new posts.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Albert_ said:


> I seem to vaguely remember a while back some discussion about spare parts and/or repairs performed on a MC3000?
> 
> One of my MC3000 has a broken pin. I'm in the process of determining it's 3 year warranty I purchased for it. However I would like to know my options for repairing it myself.
> 
> I found this spare case from Gearbest https://www.gearbest.com/led-accessories/pp_392591.html?currency=USD&vip=760243&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0Yio6vC21wIVlF5-Ch2dWwD8EAYYASABEgLGePD_BwE
> 
> However it appears to be only the top half and won't include any of the bottom half of the case?
> 
> Doesn't appear the replacement case will have any of the pins for the slot springs?
> 
> One of the pins is completely broken off and I'm not able to find the broken pin to glue back on.
> 
> I'll need to dismantle and try to figure a good method to secure the spring with a broken off pin.
> 
> Are there any particular methods people are using to hold down the slot springs where the spring pins are missing?



There is a diy fix, you use a small cable-tie, put it though the hole on the motherboard and then put the spring end over the cable-tie and pull tight, there is a photo of how it should look in this thread somewhere. (found it)

John.


----------



## Albert_

I went ahead and fixed it myself using the diy zip tie method. Apparently the other post were also failing as all four post eventually broke off.

I'm wondering about the quality of the plastic used for the case?

During re-assembly I notice some barely visible minor cracks in the bottom half of the case.

Here's a pic of one of the cracks. It isn't a scratch as it opens wider when pressure is applied to the lower half of the case.






Other than for the case I find it to be good at charging batteries. However I originally purchased the MC3000 for it's PC connection and programability. Without workable software there's no PC control over the charger.


----------



## STIXXXXX

Hey everyone,
I received my second MC3000 a few weeks ago, and I am wondering about this graph from data explorer:





https://picload.org/view/droorari/eneloop_pro.jpg.html









I discharged two eneloop pro with 2A and D.Reduce till 200mA. Can someone explain the fluctuating voltage graph and rising voltages at both batteries?
Charger/batteries faulty?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

Looks like a crack forming on the bottom of *joelbnyc* charger, from post 4921.


----------



## tatasal

Ironic to see this problem when I never had similar problem, even from my $2 charger way back then...


----------



## STIXXXXX

I started a test with 4 eneloop AA/XX. 3 cycles with 1.5A charge and discharge and D.Reduce 0.2A.
Again slot 3 is noticeable - look at the first discharge and voltage rising....
At the end of the 3rd cycle the charging stops before the battery ist full because of the fluctuating voltages and therefore no correct -deltaV.
So I guess I should return the charger to hobbyking.com


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I am about to place an order for this charger. Should i hold off?


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I am about to place an order for this charger. Should i hold off?



The problem with the brittle plastic was with the early releases that had the broken spring/slider plastic terminal problem, the plastic type was replaced with a better quality one.

So it`s fine to buy a new MC3000.

I just wish my affected MC3000 was not falling to pieces, SkyRC should send out replacement plastic parts for free at least.

John.


----------



## Ravel

STIXXXXX said:


> Hey everyone,
> I received my second MC3000 a few weeks ago, and I am wondering about this graph from data explorer:
> 
> https://picload.org/view/droorari/eneloop_pro.jpg.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I discharged two eneloop pro with 2A and D.Reduce till 200mA. Can someone explain the fluctuating voltage graph and rising voltages at both batteries?
> Charger/batteries faulty?



All almost normal

Fisrt 20 minutes, the voltage rises (after the sharp fast decrease)
This is normal voltage increase : chemistry and mass transfer settle and temperature rises.
Then there is the "voltage plateau".
Then the smooth decrease in voltage on one battery, voltage oscillation on the other.
IMHO, 2 A is a very high continuous load. 

The algorithm/controlled had difficulties copping with setting the pair voltage/amps.
Look into theory of PID controller where this can happens
Pretty sure at a lesser load both curves will be smooth

Final oscillations normal : this is what D.reduce does.


----------



## Ravel

STIXXXXX said:


> I started a test with 4 eneloop AA/XX. 3 cycles with 1.5A charge and discharge and D.Reduce 0.2A.
> Again slot 3 is noticeable - look at the first discharge and voltage rising....
> At the end of the 3rd cycle the charging stops before the battery ist full because of the fluctuating voltages and therefore no correct -deltaV.
> So I guess I should return the charger to hobbyking.com



Not sure to understand, there is only one slot on your graph
It is a better with all slots to compare


----------



## STIXXXXX

Ravel said:


> This is normal voltage increase : chemistry and mass transfer settle and temperature rises.



I thought, an increase of temperature would let the voltage drop (like it is used by the -deltaV)?



Ravel said:


> Final oscillations normal : this is what D.reduce does.



Yes, that´s just like I expected and normal.

I had another model before, which worked fine till I accidently poured some beer/wine/[insert some partydrinks] and I didn´t see those "drunken" graphs with that charger, and in addition slots 1,2,4 seem quite okay..
Anyways, just opened a claim at hobbyking and will return the charger. Already packed and waiting for the third one from Amazon tomorrow.
I will start a cycle recording and post it here. We´ll see...


----------



## Ravel

Ravel said:


> Not sure to understand, there is only one slot on your graph
> It is a better with all slots to compare



Also, as I am not sure to understand, did you try with a different battery in slot 3?
I mean is this slot 3 you think "faulty" or battery number 3 ?

Anyhow, I am not sure there is a problem

oops just seen we have posted at the same time


----------



## Ravel

STIXXXXX said:


> I thought, an increase of temperature would let the voltage drop (like it is used by the -deltaV)?



I have seen this initial rising of voltage on a few AA NiMH baterries
I must say on some very old crappy one
that cannot deliver more than 60% of their initial capacity
WHen I discharge them (usually at 0.5 A) 
I have seen this rise in voltage many times

I have extrapolated my explanation to your batteries (presumably relatively new) that
are experiencing high load at 2A (hence my explanation of chemistry and mass transfer needing time to settle)


----------



## Ravel

_>>I thought, an increase of temperature would let the voltage drop (like it is used by the -deltaV)?
_
https://en.globtek.com/nimh-battery-safety-notes/
the -deltaV is when the reaction is exothermic (charging)

The discharge is endothermic
Law of physics / chemistry (principe de Le Chatelier) says that increase of T will "moderate" the chemistry
See Van'T Hoff law


----------



## STIXXXXX

Ok, thanks for your explanations, Ravel.
Correct, my batteries are mainly about one year old. This kind of jitter is only on slot 3 - tested with different batteries.
Also, like I described, the last charge does not finish because of this. 
I will post a screenshot later with all slots and U/I on the new machine.


----------



## STIXXXXX

Good news from hobbyking.com:
Message: Item is significantly different from its description Case ID: PP-006-335-310-136 Customer claimed that 1x052000140-1 is faulty. RMA #300002050 Offered partial refund $99.99 for the confirmed faulty item.

Very good service and it was the latest revision of the MC3000. I can keep the old one and see, what today´s arrival will output on Data Explorer 

edit:
Charger just arrived from Amazon.de (seller McTrade). 
A bit older model than from hobbyking (FW 1.10 instead of 1.13 and recessed (+)contacts). The contacts came out completely at the one from hobbyking. But it´s the newer case, so I will give it a try and first cycling is running...

edit2:
because of the recessed (+)contacts, I noticed bad contact when rotating the batteries or putting them in the "wrong" way. I will open the case and bend the metal for better / parallel contact like I did with my first charger a year ago.
And yes, I have a lot of fun with this toy


----------



## Ravel

STIXXXXX said:


> Ok, thanks for your explanations, Ravel.
> Correct, my batteries are mainly about one year old. This kind of jitter is only on slot 3 - tested with different batteries.
> Also, like I described, the last charge does not finish because of this.
> I will post a screenshot later with all slots and U/I on the new machine.



Thanks fir all your posts
Glad this gets sorted
Keep us posted

Interesting case
These jitters really look then like one slot is faulty then ;
strange that it is smooth then not
The controller is at fault, but maybe there is only a false contact or something contactwise happening at higher temperature
If you ever disamble it you may get lucky

How strange anyhow
You convinced me if you tried with different batteries

Have fun


----------



## romteb

I just had one of my spring post break on my early version MC3000, wondered when it would happen, good excuse to open it again (had to do the fan mod in the past) and do the zip tie mod as i don't see myself paying 17$ for an updated shell that should come free with a contrite apology.

Oh well :ironic:


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ziptie method which i also did awhile ago, does work but its not perfect for every scenario. 
The tension of the spring becomes weaker, as the spring loop is trapped at a bit different position than it is with the posts. In my case 18350 batteries show significant increase in IR readings as theyre not compressed tightly enough.
The ideal solution imo would be using one of those small plastic bolts with a nut.That way loop is trapped at exact same position as original posts.

Does anyone know the diameter of the post holes? 
Would like to source them first, before opening the charger again.


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Ok, guys, to sum up:
1. Charger: Amazon.de - new case - broke because of own fault.
2. Charger: hobbyking - new case and better aligned (+)contacts - faulty at reading voltages - production date on PCB Dec 16
3. Charger: Amazon.de - new case and old recessed (+)contacts - working good after re-aligning the contacts - production date on PCB Jan 16

I opened the faulty charger(2) but couldn´t find anything suspicious.
But at further testing I recognized that the oscillating voltage readings correlate with fan activity / temperatures.




At first I thought of voltage problems because of the fan, but the rising voltage at the beginning of the graph would lead to temperature-voltage-reading problems... any ideas?
(in this screenshot the jitter is not as bad as in the screenshot above - slot 3 was the most inaccurate one)

Charger(3) is working fine. Perfect graphs for 3 cycles over night. No screenshot, because dataexplorer was hanging, when I tried to change colors 
Same eneloops used as with Charger(2).


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Does anyone know when this charger be in stock again? And also, whether or not if i should order from HKE again due to no warranty for those that are in the U.S but then again, it's 99 bucks as Amazon has it around almost 200 to 300 bucks. That's a lot for a charger. I would probably get the updated version if i did order from hke as they don't seem to have it in stock so there shouldn't be anymore old units. but in the meantime. Know any good sellers trustworthy that ships to US besides hke?

Thanks.


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Ziptie method which i also did awhile ago, does work but its not perfect for every scenario.
> The tension of the spring becomes weaker, as the spring loop is trapped at a bit different position than it is with the posts. In my case 18350 batteries show significant increase in IR readings as theyre not compressed tightly enough.
> The ideal solution imo would be using one of those small plastic bolts with a nut.That way loop is trapped at exact same position as original posts.
> 
> Does anyone know the diameter of the post holes?
> Would like to source them first, before opening the charger again.



Will open the charger tomorrow and let you know, thx for the heads up on the tie mod


----------



## Ravel

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

>>(in this screenshot the jitter is not as bad as in the screenshot above - slot 3 was the most inaccurate one)

I am back to my first line of thoughts
Run at 1A, not 2, and possibly on two different chargers

Time consuming, but definite way to see if it is the charger, the batteries, or the high current

Oscillation of T is normal

On my charger the warmest of slots is always number 3

Sorry no more idea at the minute
Plus if faulty on the PID controller this will hard to correct
Maybe you could flash a different firmware version (Do not blame me if bricked)


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

NKON in Holland




MarioJP said:


> Does anyone know when this charger be in stock again? And also, whether or not if i should order from HKE again due to no warranty for those that are in the U.S but then again, it's 99 bucks as Amazon has it around almost 200 to 300 bucks. That's a lot for a charger. I would probably get the updated version if i did order from hke as they don't seem to have it in stock so there shouldn't be anymore old units. but in the meantime. Know any good sellers trustworthy that ships to US besides hke?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Does anyone know the diameter of the post holes?



The max drill bit shank i could get though is 2.4mm, the posts themselves are 2.2mm but it's not a tight fit.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



romteb said:


> The max drill bit shank i could get though is 2.4mm, the posts themselves are 2.2mm but it's not a tight fit.



Thanks for saving me from additional opening of the charger .
So i guess m2.5 screw should fit.

For anyone planing to go this way , just do an ebay search for "plastic screw m2.5(or m2 to be 100% that it will fit but with some play)" and "plastic nut m2.5(or m2 depending on your screw choice)". They can be had for around 1$ a set of 10 each. 
I would suggest first to try local hardware store as lot of times cheap stuff like this can be found even cheaper offline, and also save you a month of waiting.


----------



## romteb

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

HKequipment (where i bought my MC3000 2 years ago) is contacting Skyrc about my breaking posts issue, let's see where this leads.

I also had the surprise to find 2 broken posts instead of one, strangely the second broken one wasn't noticeable yet during use.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Keep me posted. I also contacted them as well.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

HKequipment = Hong Kong, you might have to return it, That has stopped me returning mine to Gear Best due to postage cost, really expensive from the UK.

Now SkyRC is selling the MC3000 world wide, they should allow us to return them to the closest seller instead of all the way back to China/Hong Kong.

John.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> HKequipment = Hong Kong, you might have to return it, That has stopped me returning mine to Gear Best due to postage cost, really expensive from the UK.
> 
> Now SkyRC is selling the MC3000 world wide, they should allow us to return them to the closest seller instead of all the way back to China/Hong Kong.
> 
> John.



They sell them worldwide now?
Where can I buy on in NZ?

Not that there's anything wrong with my current one, touchwood. It's a first-kid-off-the-block-brittle-plastic-silly-fan version.
Would be nice to have a new-and-improved version though.


----------



## Elmie

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Just received my MC3k from illum and it looks to be an old model. Had firmware 1.03

Is this charger going to be ok?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Update: Charger is still with customs. Changes in policies that i am not aware of? Or maybe that is as far tracking goes. It's Monday so i am assuming the charger will be delivered shortly.

Yay, my charger is on it's way from hke. Just received the tracking# for my package. And looks like it's already in the states.


----------



## liliumcandle

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi everyone, I'm still catching up with this thread, I'm at page 132, at the moment.... reading (skimming) all of it.. First of all, a picture of my new charger:






then I want to share the method I used to connect DEX to my Mac running High Sierra, which has an additional protection that needs to be disabled. This method doesn't involve scripts, just a little use of Terminal:

1. Go to
http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/dataexplorer/MAC_OS_X_SkyRC_Dummy_USB_Driver/?C=S&O=D


Download both files: Info.plist and Info.plist.sig.


2. go to
/System/Library/Extensions/


Recreate this folder structure and copy both info files in "Contents"

System
|
+-- Library
| |
| +-- Extensions
| | |
| | +-- SkyRC.kext
| | | |
| | | +-- Contents
| | | | | 
| | | | +-- Info.plist
| | | | +-- Info.plist.sig 


3. Disable System Integrity Protection:
Reboot the system and hold down Command+R (⌘+R) keys simultaneously when you hear the startup chime
This will boot macOS into Recovery Mode
Once in Recovery mode, open a Terminal window from the Utilities drop-down menu at the top of the screen
Type in the Terminal: csrutil disable
Hit Enter
Restart the machine


To re-enable SIP after installation:
Reboot into Recovery Mode again (⌘+R at system chime)
Open a Terminal and enter: csrutil enable
Reboot


4 Open Terminal

execute:

cd /System/Library/Extensions
sudo chown -R root:wheel SkyRC.kext
sudo chmod -R 755 SkyRC.kext
sudo kextcache -system-caches


Restart computer


5. Enjoy usb connection between Mac and MC3000...


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> at the moment you can only program 4 shortcuts, make that 8 by adding the DOWN+SNB.Easier to make full use of the function if youre using more than 1 chemistry. That DOWN+SNB combination sitting unused for very long, time to get it in the game





kreisl said:


> (k#89) in GSV, using up <DOWN+SNB> for additional four favorite programs (CONFIRMED, PENDING)


k#89 functionality has been implemented in FW1.14beta no big deal hah but i am not happy with the cosmetics in GSV. I thought it would be helpful/fun to let you guys determine the looks, if this matter interests you :shrug:

_Original FW1.13 version:

_SNB#1 Memory: [11]
SNB#2 Memory: [12]
SNB#3 Memory: [13]
SNB#4 Memory: [14]
123456789012345678​_
Cosmetic FW1.14 version cos1:_

UP + SNB#1:xxx[11]
UP + SNB#2:xxx[12]
UP + SNB#3:xxx[13]
UP + SNB#4:xxx[14]
DOWN + SNB#1: [21]
DOWN + SNB#2: [22]
DOWN + SNB#3: [23]
DOWN + SNB#4: [24]
123456789012345678​_
Cosmetic FW1.14 version cos2:_

UP+1 x Memory:[11]
UP+2 x Memory:[12]
UP+3 x Memory:[13]
UP+4 x Memory:[14]
DOWN+1 Memory:[21]
DOWN+2 Memory:[22]
DOWN+3 Memory:[23]
DOWN+4 Memory:[24]
123456789012345678 ​
I better not tell (now) which of the 2 versions my strong preference is, to keep things unbiased and fair . In the end it's imho a matter of cosmetics/consistency and taste. Not very important or essential discussion, one could argue. But let's try anyway. TIA for your opinions/votes re this small matter! ( btw i am still on vacation until the end of AO2018 sorry if ne1 is missing me posting or replying )


----------



## LiteTheWay

Hey kreisl - welcome back. Are there answers to the following?



7histology said:


> So is this MAC address business an indication of:
> 
> - the latest HW build - in which case how is this build different from the one I got from NKON in August 2016 which was then
> the latest HW build with all the problematic bits fixed?
> 
> - or really an indication of FW?
> 
> Mine shows FW 1.10 - I have not updated it but know I can. Mine also shows HW 1.4+. I can't make it show MAC address however.
> 
> I know none of this really matters but am interested anyway. So Kreisl ....... ?


----------



## kreisl

Hi dear friend, thx but i am still not back :ironic:
In any case, sorry for the late response, here my quick take before i go back to where i came from: the MAC address showing is a clear indication of more recent HW production where the BLUETOOTH MODULE FIRMWARE (sorry for screaming but you asked hh) got updated for this 1 tiny command. If ours is HW1.5, then theirs be HW1.6 or what. Doesn't matter, i don't mind. I believe on the Russian flashlight forum some hax posted photo of it, also showing a longer BLUETOOTH ANTENNA inside. Looks like sky tried to improve the bluetooth reception aha. :tired:

The long-press on the HW row is implemented in FW1.13, but HW1.5 wouldn't understand the command.


----------



## kappa7

The poor range of the bluetooth connection on the old versions of the MC3000 is mainly caused from the silly idea that the PCB layouter had to route a power supply line under the antenna... No ground plane nor any tracks should be routed under the antenna(even on the internal and bottom layer) and nearby regions. Normally the best performance are achieved when the module is put on a corner of the PCB.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> The downsides of my above solution:
> - the cover is "not so compact"
> - the original MC3000 package padding gets used up
> 
> The upsides are:
> - perfect fit and finish
> - feels nice
> - easy to clean with scotch
> - can be reused as package padding in the retail box, why not


It's Advent season and during my vacation i redid the above earlier handicraft project, matter of 1 hour. Back then i had run out of white tape and when i finally bought a new roll and applied the missing strip, i somehow did a poor job and tried to redo it. However my correctional efforts tore tiny parts out of the foam surface and ruined the "smooth" finish.:duh2: If you tape a rough surface, the result just looks awful. Then i tried to remove all of the white tape but that was a fail too: after 1yr of age and sun exposure the adhesive component became all gooey and bonded tightly with the foam surface. At this point the previously okay looks of my cover art no pun intended were imho beyond recovery and i gave up frustrated . On the following pic the left strip/rough surface doesn't look too bad, in RL it looks so much worse like a heap of that dog's 💩, ready for the bin, what a botched job well done kreisl wtf:





Instead of binning, i could reuse it as original padding, back in the retail box. Done, perfect riddance! And i grabbed another retail box and redid the dust cover DIY project from scratch, now with more efforts, cutting precision, and a full roll of white tape yay. Btw to whom it may concern i used Dutch tape (not Scotch tape), branded Verlofix, only 1.39€/25m lol from my local action.de shop; i am not sure though if all ACTION shops carry the very item, feel free to employ any other similar el cheapo duct tape in your preferred color from your local "1€-Shop":





Sorry for tooting my own trumpetbut my new dust cover resulted super nice thanks:





First day of snow this winter! Snow pics taken from various angles, giving better perspective on respective details:





Aha:





Oic:





Clever:





And finally a pic showing my present setup, live action. mc3k sitting all year long on the sill and right now charging Eneloops (heat gets trapped under the dust cover beware). My beloved aluminum raspi also sitting there in upright position, streaming American classical music at 34°C reported temperature and not being connected to the mc3k PC LINK port (today). The knife is a Spyderco Delica4 lookalike with Ganzo 440C, my one and only EDC blade, i cannot afford an original Delica4:





Why taping at all? Well, it looks nicer imho, smoother, glossy, and you can have it in your preferred color pink , but above all, it makes the dust cover a breeze to clean. Just wipe it down with a wet rag and done. Also, the foam would degrade after a few years in direct sunlight, and once dusty or dirty is almost impossible to clean. I've been using this dust cover for over a year now, wipe it down 2x per week, and have grown fond of it: the looks and function have stood the test of time, passed with flying whites! Highly recommended. And when friends come over, see it sitting on the sill, they ask what's underneath, lift it, and 



Hope you found this share interesting, useful, entertaining or even inspiring :huh:.
Have a Blessed Advent! 🎄🎅🎄


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Second Update: Yup, i definitely got the revised version. Skyrc has addressed the main issue. No more issues with flat top cells as the + terminals now has three rounded points on each slot. Also, they now added dual fan cooling. I don't recall reading about these 2 on the newer version. Can anyone shed some light on this? 



Update: had to go to my local post office. Apparently the shipping label is formatted in such way that requires 2 sets of eyes! But seriously, be careful when reading labels next time! Lol. My package almost got sent back to hke. Glad i acted fast and now the charger is here!

Hey all,
I have run into a problem with USPS as it looks like i won't be getting my charger. Seems to be a screw-up at USPS. USPS tracking says Undelivered was due to problem with the address. I checked and double checked and it is the correct one. Will i be able to recover my package before it goes back if i contact USPS first thing in the morning?

Thanks.


----------



## Albert_

romteb said:


> I just had one of my spring post break on my early version MC3000, wondered when it would happen, good excuse to open it again (had to do the fan mod in the past) and do the zip tie mod as i don't see myself paying 17$ for an updated shell that should come free with a contrite apology.
> 
> Oh well :ironic:



As DeJaVu noted the zip tie method doesn't created as quite as tight of spring tension as the original posts, which I was a little concerned about before installing the zip ties. I tried to loop one zip tie through a slot then to the post hole instead of the pcb's edge, but ran into problems securing every thing in order to fit together. So I abandoned the idea and installed from the first slot to the pcb edge. 

I think if you prepared the zip ties to be installed using the slot to post hole you may be able to create the same or nearly the same spring tension as using the case spring posts.

However there may be some difficulty installing the zip ties from the small slot to post hole as it becomes difficult looping the zip ties into the springs at the same time. Perhaps not impossible but there may be some additional difficulty. The first method is much easier as the zip ties can be easily slipped into the springs and then looped only into the first slot. _*** I would also check to make certain the spring won't be able to make contact to any of the electronics between the first and second slot. 
__
Note when using the first zip tie method (slot to pcb edge) I was able to tighten my zip ties so they were able to pull the spring farther underneath the PCB creating a tighter connection. My zip ties are smaller and not as thick as the black zip tie from the pic below. I was able to pull the spring closer to the middle of the post holes. _

Pic of where the zip tie (in red) would go using a second method which I started and then abandoned as I didn't at the point in time want to mess with it any further.


----------



## fmc1

Has anyone ever used NiMh batteries when calibrating the MC3000?


I know the manual says to use batteries with over a 4 Volt charge for user calibration so I take that to mean LiIon batteries. I would much rather use NiMh because the best multi meter I have is a Fluke 87V. It will show 4 places after the decimal point only if the number before the decimal point is a one or a zero, if it’s a four for example I only get 3 places after the decimal point. Does anyone see a downside if using NiMh batteries?


Frank


----------



## Gauss163

^^^^ Probably it is using two-point ADC calibration, which uses values near the lower and upper end of the range. In this case a full Li-ion is probably used as a convenient stable voltage value near the upper end of the range. If you use a much lower value then the upper range may be way off.

To shift the full precision of your Fluke 87V up to around 4V you can use _differential _measurements: measure two alkaline AA's (> 1.1V) in the meter's 2V range, then connect them in series to get about 3V, then measure the _difference _with the fully-charged Li-ion, which will be less than 2V so also in your high-precision 2V range. Then you get a high precision measurement for the Li-ion by adding this difference to the sum of the AA's, i.e. Li-ion = AA1 + AA2 + difference, where all 3 summands are < 2V so high-precision.

To measure said voltage _difference_, connect the negative of the Li-ion to the negative of the seriesed AAs, then measure the voltage between the positive terminals of both.

To get the most stable measurements be sure that all cells are long at rest (haven't been charged or discharged in the prior 24hrs) and also be sure that they have not been exposed to any recent big temperature changes.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Why do you need more than three decimal places for calibration?




fmc1 said:


> Has anyone ever used NiMh batteries when calibrating the MC3000? I know the manual says to use batteries with over a 4 Volt charge for user calibration so I take that to mean LiIon batteries. I would much rather use NiMh because the best multi meter I have is a Fluke 87V. It will show 4 places after the decimal point only if the number before the decimal point is a one or a zero, if it’s a four for example I only get 3 places after the decimal point. Does anyone see a downside if using NiMh batteries?
> 
> 
> Frank


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC  IFA 2014  MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> k#89 functionality has been implemented in FW1.14beta no big deal hah but i am not happy with the cosmetics in GSV. I thought it would be helpful/fun to let you guys determine the looks, if this matter interests you :shrug:
> 
> _Original FW1.13 version:
> 
> _SNB#1 Memory: [11]
> SNB#2 Memory: [12]
> SNB#3 Memory: [13]
> SNB#4 Memory: [14]
> 123456789012345678​_
> Cosmetic FW1.14 version cos1:_
> 
> UP + SNB#1:xxx[11]
> UP + SNB#2:xxx[12]
> UP + SNB#3:xxx[13]
> UP + SNB#4:xxx[14]
> DOWN + SNB#1: [21]
> DOWN + SNB#2: [22]
> DOWN + SNB#3: [23]
> DOWN + SNB#4: [24]
> 123456789012345678​_
> Cosmetic FW1.14 version cos2:_
> 
> UP+1 x Memory:[11]
> UP+2 x Memory:[12]
> UP+3 x Memory:[13]
> UP+4 x Memory:[14]
> DOWN+1 Memory:[21]
> DOWN+2 Memory:[22]
> DOWN+3 Memory:[23]
> DOWN+4 Memory:[24]
> 123456789012345678 ​
> I better not tell (now) which of the 2 versions my strong preference is, to keep things unbiased and fair . In the end it's imho a matter of cosmetics/consistency and taste. Not very important or essential discussion, one could argue. But let's try anyway. TIA for your opinions/votes re this small matter! ( btw i am still on vacation until the end of AO2018 sorry if ne1 is missing me posting or replying )



For simplicity sake, and saving time for overthinking a menu that will only be seen once or twice in the whole life of charger, id say leave it as currently is. Just add the additional 4 entries.

On the other note, its nice to see that firmware development is still going on. But firmware still needs few more tweaks to become perfect.

1. In storage program voltage range is 3.65-4.00v. While 3.65v is good enough for most cells, its not perfect for every cell. Im talking particularily about the pretty popular Liitokala 26650 cell and similar.
This cell at 3.65v is at more than 50% of capacity, which doesnt fit into the recommended 40% of capacity for storage. 
I suppose this wouldnt be hard to do so hopefully we will se increased range of voltages in storage program in 1.14 firmware. Say 3.3-4.0v range.

2. In settings you can choose display name of the program as "default and parameter". Default showing the program number, and parameter togling between program#/parameter. This is kind of counter productive as it togles each 5 seconds and if you miss the parameter the program number shows and you have to wait 5 seconds for it to display the parameter again.Time is money damnit .
In my oppinion ideal would be when parameter is chosen, to just add a number infront of the current to represent the program number and disable that annoying auto toggle.Looking something like this:

VOLT CURR mAh
3.75 1-0.75 Li
3.90 5-0.50 Li

Alternatively there can be an option for program#/parameter with that auto toggle, if for whatever reason someone prefers that kind of display.

3.Now about DDV(Diagram Drawing View), never used feature of the charger(at least in my case, as i dont find it informative one bit).Actually wait, i do use it frequently, but only by accidental presses by not being 100% on the spot with timing pressing both buttons when i need ir reading while there is another battery already charging, and missing the timing of the program shortcuts  .
Add longpress/delay of 0.5-1s for going into DDV. 
This will make those 2 features(ir reading + program shortcuts) seamless to use. 
Or even better, It will make space for implementing program choosing by UP/DOWN for READY slots straight in the first menu - TOV. Now this would be the best addition skyrc could ever make as it will make using the charger as fast as posible. In other words, a dream come true.

I think i covered everything that is somewhat lacking, cant think of anything more atm. Will definately let you know if something else pops up in my head


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC Â— IFA 2014 Â— MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Thanks for your thoughts, ideas and suggestions, appreciated!

"Just add the additional 4 entries." - One needs to be clear and take decisions, please which would be your esthetic preference, cos1 or cos2? Or are you're saying (and others may think de same?:thinking that you really don't mind either way? If you guys are indifferent, then i'll take the decision np.

1. i'll see if the respective common voltage limits (Charge|Storage|Discharge) can or will be adjusted, some of them may mind or have no opinion about it, and if they :shrug: , then i'll agree not to bother. Btw if the 26650 is at 4.2 and you want to store it at 3.5, you can use LiIon Discharge operation mode; if it is at 3.2, you can use LiFePO4 Charge operation mode np. The voltage reference table in the manual may prove helpful in such instances and was afaik part of the design spec idea, and the manual actually invites the user to be resourceful (e.g. on page m20). This is imo the beauty of the flexibility of the charger: even when 3.5 was never intended by the clever fuzzies to be within the Storage range, one could still get there in 1 step.

2. we can agree, the toggling display isn't optimal. it wasn't my idea to start with, it's what they came up with after 3 days of busting nuts, and i was grateful that they accepted to implement their version after all! i could already hear some fuzzy not enthusing about your very implementation suggestion ("just add a number infront[sic] of the current to represent the program number"), it's imho not optimal either. however, your point of criticism has been noted and maybe they succeed in coming up with an eleganter implementation. afaik problem is the space limitation, 18chars?, of the LCD screen, making it difficult to serve something likable. If all nuts fall down the drain, i'd still embrace and not be annoyed. 

3. "Add longpress/delay of 0.5-1s for going into DDV." - Done, see k#90. You're welcome. :kiss:
"choosing by UP/DOWN for READY slots" - Sorry, this idea has been turned down in favor of k#89. And i must admit that i totally dig the 8 program shortcuts. So we got k#89 and we got k#90, nice tweaks —useful AND likable— implemented thanks to your suggestions for improvement.

As you guys know, not all suggestions can or will get adopted. Only the strong, likable, urgent, feasible ones, easy to bring to RL, i.e. without challenging the integrity of the present firmware construction.

Let's embrace anyway. I like this product mucho.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC Â— IFA 2014 Â— MC3000 charger-analyzer*



kreisl said:


> Thanks for your thoughts, ideas and suggestions, appreciated!
> 
> "Just add the additional 4 entries." - One needs to be clear and take decisions, please which would be your esthetic preference, cos1 or cos2? Or are you're saying (and others may think de same?:thinking that you really don't mind either way? If you guys are indifferent, then i'll take the decision np.


Yep , thats what im basically saying. I personally dont mind it being either way.



kreisl said:


> 1. i'll see if the respective common voltage limits (Charge|Storage|Discharge) can or will be adjusted, some of them may mind or have no opinion about it, and if they :shrug: , then i'll agree not to bother. Btw if the 26650 is at 4.2 and you want to store it at 3.5, you can use LiIon Discharge operation mode; if it is at 3.2, you can use LiFePO4 Charge operation mode np. The voltage reference table in the manual may prove helpful in such instances and was afaik part of the design spec idea, and the manual actually invites the user to be resourceful (e.g. on page m20). This is imo the beauty of the flexibility of the charger: even when 3.5 was never intended by the clever fuzzies to be within the Storage range, one could still get there in 1 step.


Im aware that desired voltage can be reached by alternative way, but we are trying to make things elegant here, arent we?
Ideally the storage program should have that option in place, and hopefully it will be implemented. 
Charge/discharge ranges i find sufficient so i dont think its critical to bother them with that(only storage program) , unless someone thinks differently...



kreisl said:


> 2. we can agree, the toggling display isn't optimal. it wasn't my idea to start with, it's what they came up with after 3 days of busting nuts, and i was grateful that they accepted to implement their version after all! i could already hear some fuzzy not enthusing about your very implementation suggestion ("just add a number infront[sic] of the current to represent the program number"), it's imho not optimal either. however, your point of criticism has been noted and maybe they succeed in coming up with an eleganter implementation. afaik problem is the space limitation, 18chars?, of the LCD screen, making it difficult to serve something likable. If all nuts fall down the drain, i'd still embrace and not be annoyed.


The annoying thing is that the internal timer for the toggle is running all the time, so on inserting a battery it doesnt start with say 5 seconds of displaying the current and then next 5 seconds displaying the program number. But you can have like 1 second of current display , and then 5 seconds of program #, or it can start with program# and then toggle to current etc.
Ideally, when READY slot is detected(battery inserted) it would reset the internal toggle timer so it starts with 5s of current display every time, and then toggle to program#.
As for the number infront of current, i dont particulary like that either, but it was first thing that came to mind. We could go without the number, as the current and chemistry is good enough to be able to identify the program.
Alternatively, if they are so much in love with the toggle display, then leave it but add 1 additional mode which would display current and chemistry only without togling to program#.Proabably an easier feature to implement than modifying the behaviour of the toggle timer. 



kreisl said:


> 3. "Add longpress/delay of 0.5-1s for going into DDV." - Done, see k#90. You're welcome. :kiss:


If you recall i suggested this before 1.13 was released, so im glad you finally came to your senses   .Thanks for that, will definately make life easier. Going to cancel that piano lessons now.



kreisl said:


> "choosing by UP/DOWN for READY slots" - Sorry, this idea has been turned down in favor of k#89. And i must admit that i totally dig the 8 program shortcuts. So we got k#89 and we got k#90, nice tweaks —useful AND likable— implemented thanks to your suggestions for improvement.


Just had to try again, for this one i could possibly convince you on my 3rd or 4th try .
Joking aside, while i still think it would be a kickass feature, the 8 programable shortcuts with added delay on ddv so no more mispressed shortcuts, pretty much makes up for the lack of that feature and i consider it good development in user friendliness of the charger.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC Â— IFA 2014 Â— MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Ideally, when READY slot is detected(battery inserted) it would reset the internal toggle timer so it starts with 5s of current display every time, and then toggle to program#.
> (...)
> Alternatively, if they are so much in love with the toggle display, then leave it but add 1 additional mode which would display current and chemistry only without togling to program#.Proabably an easier feature to implement than modifying the behaviour of the toggle timer.


Either sounds feasible and it would be probably good to have them both implemented. Listed as UNCONFIRMED for now, I'll see if they can be adopted in the next FW update thanks fingers crossed


> Going to cancel that piano lessons now.


that was funny:laughing:

To keep my fingers click and clacking i got myself _the_ mechanical keyboard with buckling springs about a month ago, 100€ for an 18yr old Like New:kiss: piece of PC equipment. Now i hit the keys with improved accuracy and improved speed, at 100wpm. Genuine joy!


----------



## fmc1

7histology said:


> Why do you need more than three decimal places for calibration?



It’s more of a want then a need. I just want to use the most accurate device that I have at its most accurate setting to do the calibration. If the batteries I’m using for the calibration measure 1.3359V in slot 1 and 1.3351V in slot 2. I am not going to enter 1.335V for slot 1.
Skyrc recommends a meter with 3+ decimal places and batteries with 4 volts. I guess I’m old school and tend to follow the manufacturer recommendations unless it’s not possible. This is the situation I am in now. I can do one but not both. That’s why I asked the question.


----------



## LiteTheWay

OK. I was just wondering. I work in science with lots of numbers and those decimal places past about 2 are almost arbitrary in this sort of case.

Have fun anyway.



fmc1 said:


> It’s more of a want then a need. I just want to use the most accurate device that I have at its most accurate setting to do the calibration. If the batteries I’m using for the calibration measure 1.3359V in slot 1 and 1.3351V in slot 2. I am not going to enter 1.335V for slot 1.
> Skyrc recommends a meter with 3+ decimal places and batteries with 4 volts. I guess I’m old school and tend to follow the manufacturer recommendations unless it’s not possible. This is the situation I am in now. I can do one but not both. That’s why I asked the question.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I got the new one next to the old one which i now started using again. Can anyone explain why the rails are no longer greased like the old one? Was there an issue having the rails greased?


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> I got the new one next to the old one which i now started using again. Can anyone explain why the rails are no longer greased like the old one? Was there an issue having the rails greased?


Grease potentially introduces higher resistance. And as the negative pole contact is made through the both rails touching each other(nothing erotic) , they decided to go without grease in later iterations of the charger.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Grease potentially introduces higher resistance. And as the negative pole contact is made through the both rails touching each other(nothing erotic) , they decided to go without grease in later iterations of the charger.


That makes sense, and i could see why not wanting to grease them anymore. But i do have to say, the sliders is quite difficult to slide them back. Feels like the - tabs could bend lol. But no biggie, just glad that + terminals makes contact with flat top cells[emoji106] Should be fine right?


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You could loosen the (middle) screws just a bit. That helped for me with one model


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Question. I am comparing both new and old seeing what else got improved since i have them side by side. One thing i did notice is that the - terminals on the new one looks a bit thinner. What new metals did they use this time?


----------



## dma_k

Dear forum members, My excuses if my points below are already covered in 150+ pages of this thread... it's not easy to find relative information  I have recently bought SkyRC MC3000 (reports FW 1.13, HW 1.3) via GearBest, presumably the latest edition. I have a problem with charging battery GP 1100mAh NiMH. When I attempt to start a program, the charger immediately reports "Connection Break", similar to one here. This message does not tell anything even to advanced user  The initial voltage was 1.25V and internal resistance is 8.08Om (other batteries I've tested have lower values e.g. 0.83Om, 1.10Om) – maybe that's the reason. At least that should be correctly reported e.g. "Internal resistance (8.08O Om) is too high". I would appreciate if that limitation is overcome. Other "nice to have" features: 

Why I cannot jump from Slot Programming View (SPV) в Slot Operation View (SOV) and back without going to Total Overview (TOV)? For example, slot #1 is empty and slot #2 is charging a battery. I press SNB #1 (program selection) and then SNB #2. Nothing happens. I suggest to jump to operation view of #2. 
When during programming I change _Mode_, then previously set capacity and charging current are reset to 2000mAh and 1A correspondingly. For example, if I change _Mode_ from _Charge_ to _Refresh_, these settings should be left as I set them. Of course in certain modes (like _BreakIn_) they should be overridden, but if possible, user-defined value should be preserved. More over when I press _Stop_ button (I want to cancel _Mode_ selection) the values are set to OFF – totally unexpected. Bottomline: previously entered values for capacity and charging current should be remembered when user switches between different _Mode_s and applied/preserved when currently selected mode allows this and also restored when user cancels _Mode_ selection. 
Is combination UP+SNB working for someone? Maybe I misunderstood the manual: _If there are inactive slots, clicking UP+SNB will recall the program number stored under that SNB and copy the program over to all inactive slots at once._ If I am right, in case when slot #1 is empty and slot #2 is charging a battery using program 03, when I press UP+SNB#2, the program 03 should be applied to slot #1 (and other not charging slots as well). Currently it does not happen: the program is applied, but the wrong one. 
When I install AAA accumulator in the slot, the back slider is not touching the back of accumulator reliably. This is because the batteries have some padding on the back like on this image, so the tip on the slider does not contact the "proper" area on the back of the battery because the tip is too high. I can place the battery higher, however sometimes it just jumps out because of the angle. Another concern is that the battery does not touch the thermometer properly, so cut-off by temperature becomes problematic. 
Showing "Programs Info" can be optimized. Users complain that charger is too slow. I believe it is not slow because of processor power, but instead user experience can be improved in some places. For example, one somebody needs to know which program is active when returning to TOV menu? The point is that while this information is shown, pressing any SNB button has no effect, so I need to wait for a second before I can continue. Perhaps one can just eliminate this info view and add program info into TOV view (e.g. current is replaced by program for 1 second and then flips back?) 
Buttons are noisy in a sense that when I press them, the sound can be heard in next room. 
Add the "Beep sound level" configuration option. That one should control the sound level for beep events (default one is too high). 
Would be nice to see the charging level in percentage either relative to capacity set up by the program, or to value discovered by previous charge/discharge step. For example in C→D→C program, the second charge step can use mAh value accumulated by discharge step. 
 Android App deserves another separate post. Hopefully it becomes better over the time as well.


----------



## MoTec

Howdy forum members! 

I've received one of these MC3000's from GearBest a couple of days ago. It's reporting FW Version 1.13 and HW Version ≥ 1.3. 

I read, on the first page of this thread, bug k#62:



(k#62) one slot out of four may surprisingly show CHECK VOLTAGE message even with BATT TYPE set correctly (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)

My unit is exhibiting this behavior with NiMH cells (AA Eneloop) on slot four, only. And, oddly enough, only when selecting a charge cycle. I've been able do a 'refresh' on NiMH cells, in all four slots, with no problems. LiIon cells also charge fine. I've verified that it's not the cells by swapping them between slots. 

I'm wondering if this is a defect in my unit or perhaps this is this bug manifesting itself with firmware 1.13. Further reading has shown it's going to be a waste to even try to return this through GearBest so no matter what happens I'll deal with it but it'd be nice to know if this is expected behavior, a bug or a fault. 

If anyone has any advice or comments please feel free to send them my way. 

EDIT: It appears to only do this when I select "NiMH" cells, not "Eneloop". I was charging some Apple branded AAs and had the problem (also verified with Eneloops) but it does not happen when I select Eneloop as the cell type. 

Additionally. It appears I might have some sort mix of old and new parts. From everything I can tell without taking it apart (which I haven't done yet) I've got the newest hardware (the rails are more silver and not greased, the is a shallow indention around the sticker on the bottom, the display is more grey then blue, and what seems to be most definitive of the newest hardware - it DOES display the MAC address on the Setup screen if I long-press enter while the HW Version line is highlighted) but one thing is different - mine does not have the three raised bumps on the positive terminal like I've seen in some pictures.


----------



## Bazsy

I have received my mc3000 from GB today and I am pretty satisfied with it. I was surprised that that's the charger has two fans, somehow I always thought it was one.

A few questions with mixed answers in the topic:
- Is there any way to name a program? It will be otherwise pretty hard to follow what you eschew program does and why. Also programs I make on the phone doesn't seem like ending up on the unit. How does the unit knows what it does then? Any way to transfer them? 
-What's the difference between Nimh and Eneloop mode and what are the best settings for the Eneloop/Eneloop Pro AA/AAA?


----------



## MarioJP

Bazsy said:


> I have received my mc3000 from GB today and I am pretty satisfied with it. I was surprised that that's the charger has two fans, somehow I always thought it was one.



So this must be revision 2 past june production?? Mines also has dual fans as well when i received mines. Yet, youtube and other related pics only shows the june production with a single fan and flat + terminals. I was surprised to see a dual fan and three rounded points on the + terminals than what was shown on the box. 

So there is now total of 3 versions of this charger. The original version, June production version, and now the past june production or 2017 version. And you will know right away if you have the 2017. Just look for the dual fans and 3 rounded points on the + terminals.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

2 fans? Are you sure?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> 2 fans? Are you sure?


Dual fans and 3 rounded points.


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Dual fans and 3 rounded points.


Wow ok that's awesome.
I need to get a new one...


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Edit: I have a suggestion for the next firmware update if it hasn't been mentioned already. It's already on phones, other chargers, or anything with a battery meter. Is it possible to add % when it measures the cells, charging/discharging? It is in everything else, why not this joyful charger? Just a thought[emoji106]




tjh said:


> Wow ok that's awesome.
> I need to get a new one...


The boxing looks the same. So you might be deceived at first until you start unboxing lol.


----------



## Bazsy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Nice to se the dual fans were a fairly new addition but has anyone an answer on my original questions?


----------



## Bazsy

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Could someone also point me to a guide to connect the charger to windows 10? I get a driver error all the time I try. Is there a specific driver I should use?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Bazsy said:


> Could someone also point me to a guide to connect the charger to windows 10? I get a driver error all the time I try. Is there a specific driver I should use?


Make sure windows is up to date. No driver needed. Check that the cable is making good connection on both ends. I remember while back that a good quality usb cable can make a difference as not all cables are created equal. No problems updating firmware so far for me.


----------



## hahoo

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

good luck if it breaks
this company sucks bigtime for standing behind this thing
i mean SUX
mine fell apart, and they asked if it was ok to send me the parts , to fix myself.
but i would have to pay the HIGH SHIPPING that it would cost for them to ship it to me.
also, would send a video of how to fix it ! LMAOO !
it is still well under warranty
are you serious ?
send me the parts, me pay the high shipping, and its still under warranty !!
OMFG!!!
what a complete joke they are.
i dont give a damn how good a charger it is, ill never spend another cent with this greedy *** bunch of idiots ever again.

unreal.....


----------



## LiteTheWay

Interesting.

I just asked at GB if I could be sure to get the latest ('version3') with 2 cooling fans and was told that this item only has one cooling fan!




MarioJP said:


> So this must be revision 2 past june production?? Mines also has dual fans as well when i received mines. Yet, youtube and other related pics only shows the june production with a single fan and flat + terminals. I was surprised to see a dual fan and three rounded points on the + terminals than what was shown on the box.
> 
> So there is now total of 3 versions of this charger. The original version, June production version, and now the past june production or 2017 version. And you will know right away if you have the 2017. Just look for the dual fans and 3 rounded points on the + terminals.


----------



## hahoo

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

does the new one still only discharge 18650s at 1 amp ?


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



hahoo said:


> does the new one still only discharge 18650s at 1 amp ?


Yes, with better cooling now.


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Hey guys,

I have a problem with my MC3000 I do not quite understand. I want to use it to sort through about 300 pieces A123 LiFePo4 cells.
For this, I have programmed a cycle like this:
Charge to 3.6V
Discharge to 2.5V
Charge reduce current 0.2A
Discharge reduce current 0.2A
2 Cycles

For some reason, the first charge goes well, but the first discharge always ends with a "Connection Break" error. The connection was never broken though. I can start the program again without moving the cells or doing something to improve the contact. Here are some images with I hope al relevant data concerning the problem, the program and the charger settings.
If someone could help me, this would be great. Thanks in advance!

Edit: I just found out the problem. I carefully watched what happened when the cells were just about to reach 2.5V. The charger apparently isn't able to reduce the discharge current quick enough. The voltage of the cells sagged way quicker than the charger was able to compensate by reducing the discharge current. The voltage sagged to around 1,75V, and the charger only had reduced the discharge current from 1.0A to 0.7A at that point, nowhere near anough to prevent forther voltage sag, and at that point the voltage was low enough to trigger the "Connection Break" error message.
When I switched off the discharge reduce option, the charge current was switched off at 2.5V, and the program continued as desired.
Maybe this would be an improvement for future firmware upgrades: If the charger cannot reduce the discharge current in time, just switch it off completely.





^This is what the charger looks like after the first discharge.

This is what the slot overview looks like after the "connection break" happened:



















^This is what the slot overview looks like after the "connection break" happened.

This is what the Program #4, which is used, looks like:



















^This is what the Program #4, which is used, looks like.

This is the charger setup I use:







































^This is the charger setup I use.


----------



## hc900

*dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014… Nightmare issues!*



Julian Holtz said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have a problem with my MC3000 I do not quite understand. I want to use it to sort through about 300 pieces A123 LiFePo4 cells.
> For this, I have programmed a cycle like this:
> Charge to 3.6V
> Discharge to 2.5V
> Charge reduce current 0.2A
> Discharge reduce current 0.2A
> 2 Cycles
> 
> For some reason, the first charge goes well, but the first discharge always ends with a "Connection Break" error. The connection was never broken though. I can start the program again without moving the cells or doing something to improve the contact. Here are some images with I hope al relevant data concerning the problem, the program and the charger settings.
> If someone could help me, this would be great. Thanks in advance!
> 
> Edit: I just found out the problem. I carefully watched what happened when the cells were just about to reach 2.5V. The charger apparently isn't able to reduce the discharge current quick enough. The voltage of the cells sagged way quicker than the charger was able to compensate by reducing the discharge current. The voltage sagged to around 1,75V, and the charger only had reduced the discharge current from 1.0A to 0.7A at that point, nowhere near anough to prevent forther voltage sag, and at that point the voltage was low enough to trigger the "Connection Break" error message.
> When I switched off the discharge reduce option, the charge current was switched off at 2.5V, and the program continued as desired.
> Maybe this would be an improvement for future firmware upgrades: If the charger cannot reduce the discharge current in time, just switch it off completely.



I confirm that it also happens to me when I charge or discharge a large 22650 cells and D cells with 2 amperes or more current.
It seems that the problem is a micro-interruption of current that my 2 MC3000 can not ignore. 

It seems a firmware problem, because my chargers are of the first and second hardware series.

We need the help of a friend squirrel !!


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Julian Holtz said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have a problem with my MC3000 I do not quite understand. I want to use it to sort through about 300 pieces A123 LiFePo4 cells.
> For this, I have programmed a cycle like this:
> Charge to 3.6V
> Discharge to 2.5V
> Charge reduce current 0.2A
> Discharge reduce current 0.2A
> 2 Cycles
> 
> For some reason, the first charge goes well, but the first discharge always ends with a "Connection Break" error. The connection was never broken though. I can start the program again without moving the cells or doing something to improve the contact. Here are some images with I hope al relevant data concerning the problem, the program and the charger settings.
> If someone could help me, this would be great. Thanks in advance!
> 
> Edit: I just found out the problem. I carefully watched what happened when the cells were just about to reach 2.5V. The charger apparently isn't able to reduce the discharge current quick enough. The voltage of the cells sagged way quicker than the charger was able to compensate by reducing the discharge current. The voltage sagged to around 1,75V, and the charger only had reduced the discharge current from 1.0A to 0.7A at that point, nowhere near anough to prevent forther voltage sag, and at that point the voltage was low enough to trigger the "Connection Break" error message.
> When I switched off the discharge reduce option, the charge current was switched off at 2.5V, and the program continued as desired.
> Maybe this would be an improvement for future firmware upgrades: If the charger cannot reduce the discharge current in time, just switch it off completely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^This is what the charger looks like after the first discharge.
> 
> This is what the slot overview looks like after the "connection break" happened:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^This is what the slot overview looks like after the "connection break" happened.
> 
> This is what the Program #4, which is used, looks like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^This is what the Program #4, which is used, looks like.
> 
> This is the charger setup I use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^This is the charger setup I use.


Check the resistance of the cells by pressing up and down buttons at the same time while in standby in TOV. I ran into this problem with one particular cell that was really bad and has been recycled. The connection break is due to very very high IR of the cell or poor contact. Rarely do i see this.


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

These cells can do 30-40A without breaking a sweat, so I doubt that a 1A discharge would be a porblem. As I wrote, the problem is the charger being unable to cope with the rapid voltage sag of the cell at the end of the discharge process.

I also noted that, aparently, one cannot see the individual discharge capacities of the individual cycles if a program with many cycles is running. Only after the program and all cycles have finished, the capacities for each discharge cycle are displayed alternating.

What could be improved is that one should be able to start new program without having to remove the cells. When my capacity check program has stopped, I need to pull the contact from the cell, wait a time until the voltage sags to zero, and then release the contact. Only after that I am able to set another program and start that (storage).

It would be most convenient if one could either define in any progam if the final end should be storage voltage (yes/no), or if there was the ability to create a "master program" where one could define a sequence of "sub programs" (which would be like the programs the charger has now) to be executed.


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



Julian Holtz said:


> What could be improved is that one should be able to start new program without having to remove the cells. When my capacity check program has stopped, I need to pull the contact from the cell, wait a time until the voltage sags to zero, and then release the contact. Only after that I am able to set another program and start that (storage).



You can set the slot in a ready-state by long pressing the SNB. Then just start a new program.


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

Thanks for that information. But I was unable to do that.
My situation: All slots have run program #4, and have finished it. Now I want all slots to run program #5.
Could you tell me the exact button sequence to achieve this without touching the cells? Thanks a lot!


----------



## sbj

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

It works the same way as usual:
After a program is finished: press and hold the SNB button; - the last used program of this slot is flashing; Press this SNB button once, then you are in SPV mode; From now on you can select a new program with the up- down buttons; 1x Enter button; then press down key until last line: "SAVE TO" is displayed; 1x Enter; 1x up:
"SAVE TO: ALL SLOTS"; hold down Enter; that’s it.


----------



## hombreluhrs

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello all.. Where would you recommend purchasing one of these latest versions within the US? Thanks


----------



## Nev

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I've noticed when charging lithium ion's ,when done the voltage quickly drops from 4.2 to 4.16-4.17 volts if left on the charger , why is this?
On the opus they don't drop as quick.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> I've noticed when charging lithium ion's ,when done the voltage quickly drops from 4.2 to 4.16-4.17 volts if left on the charger , why is this?
> On the opus they don't drop as quick.


The opus terminates the charge at around 70ma. Mc3000 if you dont change the setting, by default terminates at 10% of the charging rate.So any charge rate over 700ma on the skyrc would terminate higher than the opus, so you get bigger drop after charging ends.
Set it manually and see for yourself if thats the case


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> I've noticed when charging lithium ion's ,when done the voltage quickly drops from 4.2 to 4.16-4.17 volts if left on the charger , why is this?
> On the opus they don't drop as quick.



The amount of voltage drop after a charge depends on many factors, most notably the charge termination current and the cell's internal resistance. To meaningfully compare this on two chargers you need to ensure that these parameters are the same for both, i.e. use the termination current, same cell, etc. Otherwise you get a meaningless apples vs. oranges comparison. Also you need to account for any other diffrerences in the charge algorithms (e.g. here pure CC/CV vs PWM-simulated CC/CV)


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> I've noticed when charging lithium ion's ,when done the voltage quickly drops from 4.2 to 4.16-4.17 volts if left on the charger , why is this?
> On the opus they don't drop as quick.



Or posibly you could have a similar case like this


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*




DeJaVu said:


> Or posibly you could have a similar case like this [...]


Not very helpful without any further explanation since there could be many possible explanations.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Not very helpful without any further explanation since there could be many possible explanations.


Thats ok, i like to be cryptic at times


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Or posibly you could have a similar case like this


I am not sure if the meter is calibrated. 4.4v?? I had a meter that would measure cell voltage higher than what the mc3000 displayed. I opened the meter. Turns out, there is a variable resistor glued so you don't accidentally move it but i think the glue was coming off. Used a small coin and when i turned left and right. The value would change while reading cell voltage. So much for meters being accurate. Since then, i just use the charger to measure battery voltage. And besides, at 4.4v you have "severely overcharged" the cell lol.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Thats ok, i like to be cryptic at times



That's unfortunate since it may lead to false inferences. In case you don't know there can be many sources for such strange readings - from simple things like a low/poor DMM battery or poor calibration, to more complicated things like the DMM being confused by the PWM charging, etc. The Opus has long been in very wide use, so if it had serious overcharging issues there would be many reports of such. But there aren't. Is the internal switch set to LiHV = 4.35V?


----------



## Nev

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So the volts dropping isn't a problem then? It isn't reducing the stored capacity ?


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The Opus photo posted by DeJaVu is from this June 2014 BLF thread. There is some speculation there as to the source but it is not clear if it was ever determined.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I am thinking it is the meter and not the charger due to first hand experience with this. Used to have a radio shack multimeter. Whenever the charger says 4.2v multimeter would read 4.3 to almost 4.4v! So is it telling me that the mc3000 is defective?? So apparently some of these meters has a variable resistors that can adjust but are glued shut. In my case the glue was coming off when i took apart the meter. This made the meter useless because this made this adjustable resistor loose. Heck, just by shaking it will cause it to adjust. In any case. I ended up recycling the meter. What a poor design for calibrating lol.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> So the volts dropping isn't a problem then? It isn't reducing the stored capacity ?


Lower off the charger voltage means lower capacity, but the numbers you mention are negligable and nothing to stress about.




Gauss163 said:


> The Opus photo posted by DeJaVu is from this June 2014 BLF thread. There is some speculation there as to the source but it is not clear if it was ever determined.



Youre overethinking it way too much, but ill endulge you.
On the pic the opus is shown overcharging the battery while displaying an acceptable voltage on the screen, as simple as that.His might be doing similar, maybe to a lesser extent.
Even if the swith was set at 4.35v , the real voltage is still too high, and display doesnt show the correct voltage.
The multimeter used for measurement is not some generic chinese one but a Megger which costs around 200 euros. 
I hope its clear now.
Press like and subscribe


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hopefully by then it boils down to the meter and not the charger lol.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Lower off the charger voltage means lower capacity, but the numbers you mention are negligable and nothing to stress about.



False. One can correlate voltage with capacity only when the cell is at rest - which is far from the case when you first remove it from the charger - esp for cells with high IR (as may be the case in the photo you posted).



DeJaVu said:


> On the pic the opus is shown overcharging the battery while displaying an acceptable voltage on the screen, as simple as that.His.



Also false. That photo - by itself - doesn't prove anything (esp. when you intentionally post it so cryptically without any explanation). There are many possible explanations for that reading that do not imply overcharging. For example, this could be the older version of the Opus which uses larger PWM spikes and - based what's said on BLF - the protection circuit may be adding up to 100mΩ, so the actual cell voltage may be much lower than what the DMM shows. I see no _proof _that the Opus is overcharging.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> So the volts dropping isn't a problem then? It isn't reducing the stored capacity ?





Gauss163 said:


> False. One can correlate voltage with capacity only when the cell is at rest - which is far from the case when you first remove it from the charger - esp for cells with high IR (as may be the case in the photo you posted).
> 
> 
> 
> Also false. That photo - by itself - doesn't prove anything (esp. when you intentionally post them so cryptically without any explanation). There are many possible explanations for that reading that do not imply overcharging. For example, this could be the older version of the Opus which uses larger PWM spikes and - based what's said on BLF - the protection circuit may be adding up to 100mΩ, so the actual cell voltage may be much lower than what the DMM shows. I see no _proof _that the Opus is overcharging.



Yeah, like i said, overthinking too much. 
Were not trying to solve the mistery behind the cause of the problem on the blf thread.
Picture was posted to suggest that the opus mentioned here might be overcharging the batteries.Even a small amount over 4.2 would result in a similar situation as described here.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Yeah, like i said, overthinking too much.



Facts about battery science are not "overthinking".



DeJaVu said:


> Picture was posted to suggest that the opus mentioned here might be overcharging the batter.



It was already explained to you 3 years ago on BLF (by HKJ and others) why there may be no overcharging. The way you cryptically posted the photo here (without any link to the prior explanations) and later refused requests to elaborate ("I like to be cryptic") is certainly not fair to those readers who may be seeking a fair analysis of the Opus. If I hadn't dug up that old BLF thread then you may have wrongly scared many readers away from the Opus. Is that really what you desired?


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Facts about battery science are not "overthinking".
> 
> 
> It was already explained to you 3 years ago on BLF (by HKJ and others) why there may be no overcharging. The way you cryptically posted the photo here (without any link to the prior explanations) and later refused requests to elaborate ("I like to be cryptic") is certainly not fair to those readers who may be seeking a fair analysis of the Opus. If I hadn't dug up that old BLF thread then you may have wrongly scared many readers away from the Opus. Is that really what you desired?



Scence like this? "False. One can correlate voltage with capacity only when the cell is at rest - which is far from the case when you first remove it from the charger".Is your science telling me that if i remove a battery straight off the charger at 4.19v from one charger, and then i charge it on anoother charger and i get 4.17v. off the charger they would have the same capacity(talking about peanuts here, but still)? I dont agree with your science then.

The picture shows a charger overcharging a battery, and if you read the first post youll see that it is stated that the resting voltage of the battery is 4.25v. So i can conclude from that that it is overcharging, and gives legitimacy to the picture in my eyes.
Is that sciency enough?
Now you can tell me - but wait, up to 4.25v is alowed for li-ion

No link was needed as the pic is self explanatory, and it wasnt posted to avoid discussion like this.Just a visual representation of a possible problem on the charger mentioned here.
Dudes, If anyone gets scared from opus because of that pic, pm me, i can talk with soft voice over skype to calm you down .And yes, you read me like an open book, im part of a secret anti opus society

BTW, that thread on BLF, not mine. And again, is irrelevant in this discussion


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Scence like this? "False. One can correlate voltage with capacity only when the cell is at rest - which is far from the case when you first remove it from the charger".Is your science telling me that if i remove a battery straight off the charger at 4.19v from one charger, and then i charge it on anoother charger and i get 4.17v. off the charger they would have the same capacity(talking about peanuts here, but still)? I dont agree with your science then.



Not only is it possible that they may have been charged to the same capacity, but the cell that measured 4.19V hot-off charger #1 might even be charged to _lower _capacity than the cell that measured 4.17V hot-off charger #2. Namely, if charger #1 was charging at a much higher current than #2 and the cell is not new (high IR) then the cell's voltage may still be dropping for quite some time after it is hot-off the charger - so much so that its resting voltage ends up lower than #2 - which means it was charged to lower capacity. This is not uncommon to observe in practice (I've seen it many times).


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Going back on that pic. I just realized that the voltage showing on the meter is the output power from the charger, which in this case makes sense. In order to charge a battery the voltage must be higher than the cell voltage (to overcome the potential differences). After reading that thread. It stated that in order to charge at 1A the voltage must be higher voltage.

Also, unrelated to my case then lol.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Not only is it possible that they may have been charged to the same capacity, but the cell that measured 4.19V hot-off charger #1 might even be charged to _lower _capacity than the cell that measured 4.17V hot-off charger #2. Namely, if charger #1 was charging at a much higher current than #2 and the cell is not new (high IR) then the cell's voltage may still be dropping for quite some time after it is hot-off the charger - so much so that its resting voltage ends up lower than #2 - which means it was charged to lower capacity. This is not uncommon to observe in practice (I've seen it many times).



Thats right, but youre grasping at straws.We can make up scenarios for every posible outcome on a subject like this. Ofcourse it is implied that im talking about same conditions but different chargers. You cant expect me to chew everything for you, dont have that much text. You know science after all, and would know how the comparison would be done.
In retrospect, the key word on that post that got you triggered, with the pic of the opus you have an strong emotional connection to(and who am i to stand between love like that  ) , was "posibly you could have a similar case like this" . You being a native english speaker and me not, you should better understand the meaning of possibly and similar.It doesnt mean definately and same .
Either way, even though this going back and forth between us tickles my pickle, isnt helping the guy with the problem. So ill be done with it for the day, getting late here and youre keeping me up  

Intent of the pic wasnt to trash the opus, or was it? Well never know
We are talking about this pic in case someone missed it




Im calling my secret society OPUS DIE, and im on a crusade. get it? get it?


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> We can make up scenarios for every posible outcome on a subject like this. Ofcourse it is implied that im talking about same conditions but different chargers. You cant expect me to chew everything for you [...]



It's not a hypothetical scenario. Rather, it is quite common, esp. in basic chargers where the user has no control over the charge termination current (and possibly also the charge current). This means that the user does not have the capability to program the chargers so that both have equal parameters (your "same conditions"). As such, comparison of voltages hot-off the chargers may have little correlation to actual capacity charged. Rather - as I explained above - you have to wait till the cells are at resting voltage, esp. for older unhealthy cells - which take much longer to reach resting voltage.


----------



## hc900

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Please check the DMM calibration, you can adjust the value if your DMM have hardware type calibration with a decent voltage reference.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AD584-4-Ch...951341?hash=item4b3010c02d:g:uO0AAOSwB4BaKizp

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uO0AAOSwB4BaKizp/s-l1600.jpg


----------



## Julian Holtz

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



sbj said:


> It works the same way as usual:
> After a program is finished: press and hold the SNB button; - the last used program of this slot is flashing; Press this SNB button once, then you are in SPV mode; From now on you can select a new program with the up- down buttons; 1x Enter button; then press down key until last line: "SAVE TO" is displayed; 1x Enter; 1x up:
> "SAVE TO: ALL SLOTS"; hold down Enter; that’s it.



Thank you so much my friend, this actually works. You saved me a lot of time having to test ~300 cells, great! :candle:


----------



## LiteTheWay

So any ideas on where to go to be SURE to get the LATEST - two cooling fans, three raised points on positive terminal - VERSION of the MC3000?





7histology said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I just asked at GB if I could be sure to get the latest ('version3') with 2 cooling fans and was told that this item only has one cooling fan!


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Am i pushing the limits on these cells? Trying to find the max charge for my power bank. Terminating at 4.20 is not a full charge and continues to charge in the power bank. Raised the cut off voltage 4.23 at 20ma termination and that seemed to have worked. Now power bank says full immediately. Now i am wondering if i am still within limits. It sits at 4.22 even after 30 minutes of resting.

Thanks.





Now power bank says full after 21 seconds. Not like before where it took 30-45 minutes at 4.20 even reducing the termination charge. Something tells me that this bank has a termination voltage of 4.23v instead of 4.20v


----------



## SilverFox

Hello MarioJP,

I believe the specification is 4.20 volts plus or minus 0.05 volts. That means that a "full charge" is in the range of 4.15 - 4.25 volts.

If you are interested in cycle life, you would favor the lower number. If you are interested in maximum run time, you would favor the upper number.

Tom


----------



## inetchik

Hello.

In my progect I want to use 18650 LTO from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10p...32836879523.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.vCQg1k .
Does the MC3000 have a profile to support the LTO cells ?

BR,


----------



## sbj

No - this is not intended.


----------



## Gauss163

It's unfortunate that the MC3000 doesn't let the user program the CC/CV algorithm with arbitrary numbers. It surely has the capability, and could have easily been done with a better UI. This would enable one to handle not only LTO but also anything else that may come along (within limits).


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I read somewhere here that the next firmware my support LTO cells. What's so special about these cells anyways?


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I have a Chat with SkyRC from 3-4 days ago (sorry for bad English) but tooday is weekend:
https://cdn1.savepice.ru/uploads/2018/1/14/3968d9fc9bcee3623510fe419fce95bb-full.png


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> ............What's so special about these cells anyways?


Working and charging themperatyres, charging time, life cycles...


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello.
Next good info from LTO ("LOT") cells support:






Please, check it (my charger in transit only), if possible.
If You not have LTO cells, tnen my idea:
2pcs Nixx in Series = ~2.4V (middle LTO Voltage) 

BR,


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Afer reading about LTO. I guess higher voltage does not matter anymore?? 2.4v LTO cells. Isn't that a bit low for a 18650 cell? I get the fast charge and safety aspect of it. Isn't that the reason why we have 3.6/3.7v cells in the first place?. The higher the voltage the better? Its like we going backwards for the sake of fast charge and safety. The capacity better be good at least.


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

LTO is very good for winter (space) use.
LTO tests, review and other, if interesting: http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?board=224.0 (https://translate.googleusercontent...=224.0&usg=ALkJrhiDzpclkzAwof8PQ1bXyjL_QOhfOg).

Sorry for little offtopic.


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello.

LTO in stock, look at:http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=52499.msg1256073#msg1256073.

BR,


----------



## sbj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Yes I see, that it should be available in the next firmware version v1.14(beta):

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389700-SkyRC-%97-IFA-2014-%97-MC3000-charger-analyzer&p=4500568&viewfull=1#post4500568


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

One thing i do not like about FW 1.13 and not sure if its a bug. In Eneloop type. The first timer no longer counts once in resting mode/trickle charge and only the total timer is counting.. The fw before used to have it where the timers were separated one for total time charging and the other for resting/trickle charge. I find that very useful. Now the 1st timer just resets back to 0 and stays there once the main current is done.

I hope this gets fix. Like i said. I find that very useful lol.


----------



## inetchik

In my post at electrotransport.... screens from chat with skyrc.com. Answers from skyrc.com: FW1.13 support LTO cells.
Why this liar to me - I not understand.

BR,


----------



## sbj

Often non-technicians are responsible for public relations.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I think they are referring to being supported on the next firmware update 1.14 as I now see lto on the description on sky website. So it is for sure coming. Now speaking of firmware. I hope the issue i stated previously gets fixed? *fingers crossed* lol.


----------



## inetchik

sbj said:


> ........public relations.


Skyrc.com (non-technician) gave a photo charger with LTO. I am very disappointed and sad from lying.


BR,


----------



## SweD

inetchik said:


> Skyrc.com (non-technician) gave a photo charger with LTO. I am very disappointed and sad from lying.
> 
> 
> BR,



There's a big difference between lying and speaking an untruth, if the person didn't know any better. Who knows, might well have been an honest mistake, probably was since nothing would be gained by outright lying.


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Question. Do you guys use the USB out to charge your phones or tablets? While this is a nice feature to have as you don't need to use another outlet to charge your phone or tablet, i could see this posing a serious risk to the charger if one is not careful, like by a small chance that the other end of the usb cable accidentally touches the - or + while the cable is connected. Just curious if there is any short circuit protection on the main usb out. Either way, definitely going to be very careful with this since cables have their mind of their own of where it lands. So as a rule of thumb, always plug the device first and disconnect last. Am i over thinking this or a good catch?

Thanks lol.


----------



## marco.sg

Hi Guys

i just bought the MC3000 from GB, does anyone have Bluetooth issue with this unit?

Mine is the one with 2 fans at the back.

My unit the Bluetooth will just die after sometime and I have to restart the unit to get Bluetooth function back.

Before the Bluetooth die, I use the BLE scanner found in Apple Store to scan, there is a device call charger which I believe is the MC3000. After the Bluetooth die no such device is found by the App.

I’m using the lastest 11.2.5 iOS.

Is there a bug in the Bluetooth or mine is having a hardware issue? Does anyone have this problem?

Please help...

Thanks.

marco


----------



## JoeRodge

I'm having a terrible time finding this charger. I wanted to use GB because it sounds like they have the latest version with dual fans, 3 pins on the tabs, etc.

Where can I find these newer versions? It's sold out everywhere i look(including GB)


----------



## Beckler

*MC3000 vs C4*

This is the first charger I've seen that might compare to MC3000

http://www.isdt.co/c4.html

Thoughts? Or maybe there's a third one that I don't know of. I'm just looking for the best multi-slot, all chemistry type charger on the market.


----------



## hc900

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*

Hard to compare this charger with the MC3000 that don't have color LCD, but can use C size and D size battery (and please note: only 2 D size batteries!)


----------



## sbj

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*

Do not be fooled by the colorful display. It can only show one slot at a time.
The charger has e.g. no memories.
The battery slots are not length variable, because they have no sliders. I assume, that many protected cells will not fit. This is a no go!


----------



## LloydV

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*



sbj said:


> Do not be fooled by the colorful display. It can only show one slot at a time.
> The charger has e.g. no memories.
> The battery slots are not length variable, because they have no sliders. I assume, that many protected cells will not fit. This is a no go!



and only two 18650s at a time...

looks great, though.


----------



## Dubalgan

7histology said:


> So any ideas on where to go to be SURE to get the LATEST - two cooling fans, three raised points on positive terminal - VERSION of the MC3000?



Hello,
This is my first post. I just subscribe because I am waiting to receive a SkyRC MC3000. I bought it at nkon.nl.

To answer your question I told them :
"Hello,
About my order no xxxx, please could you check to send me the latest version of the SkyRC MC3000 : two cooling fans and three rounded points on positive terminal.
I am only interested by the latest version.

Thank you
Regards"

And they answer to me :

"Hi,

That is the only version we have in stock. We checked them all.

Regards"

I don't know where you live but mine will be shipped to France.


----------



## sim_v

Dubalgan said:


> Hello,
> This is my first post. I just subscribe because I am waiting to receive a SkyRC MC3000. I bought it at nkon.nl.



nkon seams to offer a very good price. I've bought a Powerex c9000 from him. Good price, No problem.
I'm french too.

In the following french section I ask Dubalgan to share his review of MC3000 in the oldest discussion thread about batteries.

Dubalgan : si tu pouvais partager ton avis sur HFR ( https://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/electroniquedomotiquediy/divers/unique-chargeur-accus-sujet_8_766.htm ), ce serait vraiment cool.
Le MC3000 me fait de l'oeil depuis le début !


----------



## LiteTheWay

Hi

I just ordered one from NKON - they have the latest version. They also have great service - I got my previous version MC3000 from NKON too.




Dubalgan said:


> Hello,
> This is my first post. I just subscribe because I am waiting to receive a SkyRC MC3000. I bought it at nkon.nl.
> 
> To answer your question I told them :
> "Hello,
> About my order no xxxx, please could you check to send me the latest version of the SkyRC MC3000 : two cooling fans and three rounded points on positive terminal.
> I am only interested by the latest version.
> 
> Thank you
> Regards"
> 
> And they answer to me :
> 
> "Hi,
> 
> That is the only version we have in stock. We checked them all.
> 
> Regards"
> 
> I don't know where you live but mine will be shipped to France.


----------



## tjh

Wow, great to see this thread still going.
I still have my original MC3000! Version 1.0 I guess, I had to do the fan mod (I cut all the grills off)
It's tarnished up really badly now, but still no broken springs thankfully.

Good to know when it does snap one (and I guess it's only a matter of time) the new ones have a lot of great little modifications and enhacements.

Hey everyone just buying one now, I was happy to be your guinea pig ;-)


----------



## vovanius

Hi there! Maybe charger devs reading this thread. I have the first version of MC3000, and about falf of a year wrote to SkyRC's support with a question - where can i get spare minus terminal springs, because springs in my unit weaken in time. And also those little aluminum thermal sensor covers. They didn't answer. Maybe they answer me here?


----------



## Dubalgan

sim_v said:


> nkon seams to offer a very good price. I've bought a Powerex c9000 from him. Good price, No problem.
> I'm french too.
> 
> In the following french section I ask Dubalgan to share his review of MC3000 in the oldest discussion thread about batteries.
> 
> Dubalgan : si tu pouvais partager ton avis sur HFR ( https://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/electroniquedomotiquediy/divers/unique-chargeur-accus-sujet_8_766.htm ), ce serait vraiment cool.
> Le MC3000 me fait de l'oeil depuis le début !



Hi,
I received my MC3000 this week from NKON and I can confirm it is the latest version.

@sim_v : désolé mais je ne pense pas avoir le temps de faire une review sur HFR. Peut-être un retour rapide si j'ai du temps.

As soon as I have some time, I can send some pictures for those who are interested.


----------



## luciof

Hi, all

I purchased a MC3000 a few days ago, and at first I was quite pleased with it.
But, after a couple of days of moderate use, the slide #2 broke (first well known problem). The charger was powered, and the slot #1 had a 18650 in it; removing the battery an error messaged popped up: "MCP3424-1 Err" (2nd known problem).
From now on, the charger is completely unusable.

I carefully opened it, and found the #2 pin completely shredded, the #3 pin partially broken and one of the mid screw barrels almost broken too.
Not bad for a device just purchased.
BTW, the main PCB is marked "MC3000 V1.6 2016-12-08"; according to the QC stamp, the production date is March, 2017.
So, this is not the very last version (only one fan), but the spring defect should have been addressed.

Anyway, after a few measurements and tests, I found out that one MCP3424 (4-channel ADC) has failed; the board includes two of them, and the broken one served the slots #1 and #2.
I think that handling the slide #1 (to remove the battery) after the slide #2 was broken, the hanging end of the spring touched the slide (or maybe some other parts) and made a short, blowing out the chip.

I've ordered a few spare chips and plan to replace the broken one in the next days.

I'll let you know if this solves the issue.

Regards,
Lucio.


----------



## luciof

Update: after replacing the MCP3424 chip, the "MCP3424-1 Err" Warning has gone (I guess a "MCP3424-2 Err" would pop out when the other chip fails).
After a painful reassembly and a quick check, everything works fine.

I'll do a more thorough test as soon as I find the time.


----------



## inetchik

Hello, Lucio.

Good work.

But, where you buy a charger with PCB Ver 1.6 ?

Becouse from GB the PCB Rev. 2.2: http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=30657&page=61

BR,


----------



## luciof

inetchik said:


> But, where you buy a charger with PCB Ver 1.6 ?



Hi BR,

I bought it at a local store, here in Italy.
They had just arrived in the store, so I didn't consider that they could be a little old.
BTW, I didn't know about the device, so I had not done any research before buying it.

After a quick look at the link above, I see that the V2.2 PCB still obstructs the air flow from the fans. It look like a design flaw to me.
The plastic spring pins look the same; the problem is, the plastic is too brittle. In my unit, it breaks quite easily.

Lucio.


----------



## mrrhh

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*



Beckler said:


> This is the first charger I've seen that might compare to MC3000
> 
> http://www.isdt.co/c4.html



An ISDT C-4 charger? Is this for charging Samsung batteries?


----------



## StandardBattery

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*



mrrhh said:


> An ISDT C-4 charger? Is this for charging Samsung batteries?


What do you mean by Samsung batteries? They make more than 1 battery. Do you mean you have a Samsung 18650 battery and you want to charge it?


----------



## Mp0w3r

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*

Does anyone know of a video or a post that explains how to change out the case for a broken plastic pin?


----------



## fmc1

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*



Mp0w3r said:


> Does anyone know of a video or a post that explains how to change out the case for a broken plastic pin?



Take a look at post #4767 in this thread. Getting the display out of the old case was the hardest part for me. I had to heat it up quite a bit.

Frank


----------



## Mp0w3r

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*



fmc1 said:


> Take a look at post #4767 in this thread. Getting the display out of the old case was the hardest part for me. I had to heat it up quite a bit.
> 
> Frank



Hi Frank...appreciate the help, I opened up my unit and it looks like there's no white glue holding in the display or other components, just screws, so I shouldn't have any problems...hopefully !! :thinking:

I did find this YouTube video helpful for reassembly...Thank you :thumbsup:


----------



## fmc1

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*



Mp0w3r said:


> Hi Frank...appreciate the help, I opened up my unit and it looks like there's no white glue holding in the display or other components, just screws, so I shouldn't have any problems...hopefully !! :thinking:
> 
> I did find this YouTube video helpful for reassembly...Thank you :thumbsup:



I thought the video was helpful. I actually received the replacement case prior to the video being posted but I did not swap it out until later. By that time I had already bought another post June 2016 unit, this time from a US seller with the upgraded case and I was using that one. I think it’s only the very early units that had no glue. On my post June 2016 unit the display, the display connectors, the button connectors and even the fan is glued in. Fortunately the glue falls apart with some heat. The screw posts on the new case were thicker than the old one so I had to open the holds up a little on the PCB.


Good luck with the swap.


Frank


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*

Just out of interest, why did you need to open the case of a post June 2016 version?




fmc1 said:


> I thought the video was helpful. I actually received the replacement case prior to the video being posted but I did not swap it out until later. By that time I had already bought another post June 2016 unit, this time from a US seller with the upgraded case and I was using that one. I think it’s only the very early units that had no glue. On my post June 2016 unit the display, the display connectors, the button connectors and even the fan is glued in. Fortunately the glue falls apart with some heat. The screw posts on the new case were thicker than the old one so I had to open the holds up a little on the PCB.
> 
> 
> Good luck with the swap.
> 
> 
> Frank


----------



## fmc1

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*



7histology said:


> Just out of interest, why did you need to open the case of a post June 2016 version?



I wanted to see the changes in the newer case.


----------



## Mp0w3r

*Re: MC3000 vs C4*

Anyone know where to find a replacement fan? 

Will a 12v work or does it need to be 15v?


----------



## Egen

IDEA:
1. Rename CAPACITY: to CUT CAPAC:
2. Organize the possibility of charging / discharging for Ni-Cd and Ni-MH
asymmetrical current (see figure).
Call this mode MODE: ASYMMET
Change the intervals for C. RESTING and D.RESTING (0 ms - 10 s, with the smallest possible multiplicity for current stabilization)
CYCLE COUNT: OFF
CYCLE MODE: OFF
TARGET VOLT: 1.65V (not to recharge)
DELTA PEAK:? (while to leave, research is needed)
D.REDUCE: -x.xx (Leave)
CUT VOLT: 1.00 (Leave)
Enter two parameters: C.TIME and D.TIME (0 ms - 10 s, with the minimum possible multiplicity for stabilizing the current)


This mode will allow you to drive as a charge (with C.CURRENT * C.TIME > D.CURRENT * D.TIME)
and discharge (at C.CURRENT * C.TME < D.CURRENT * D.TIME).


P.S. How is it possible to get the v1.14 beta firmware for testing?


----------



## LiteTheWay

What's happened to the squirrel?


----------



## StandardBattery

7histology said:


> What's happened to the squirrel?


Likely SkyRC decided they had invested enough into the development of this charger. So he could be hibernating for the winter, trying to crack a bigger nut, or as sometimes happens to squirrels .... 

OK you were probably not looking for speculation, sorry about that.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Likely you are correct - too bad about that.







StandardBattery said:


> Likely SkyRC decided they had invested enough into the development of this charger. So he could be hibernating for the winter, trying to crack a bigger nut, or as sometimes happens to squirrels ....
> 
> OK you were probably not looking for speculation, sorry about that.


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sbj said:


> Yes I see, that it should be available in the next firmware version v1.14(beta):
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389700-SkyRC-%97-IFA-2014-%97-MC3000-charger-analyzer&p=4500568&viewfull=1#post4500568



Where to get the FW1.14B ?
Becouse I have LTO CELLs (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpS4PQfWQs) and cells need charge and ......
And tooday I use manual (visual) charge control (end voltage = 2.8V) in LiFePo4 profile.


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



inetchik said:


> Where to get the FW1.14B ?
> Becouse I have LTO CELLs .


I have Beta 1.14. hasnt been released yet because has few other bugs as listed in de list. Hybernating sounds about correct. I'll wake up after Wimbledon 2018 

Feel free to contact skyrc and ask, they might give beta to you since you really have \need lto.

Congrats to owning lto. They are very hard to obtain.


----------



## LiteTheWay

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

You're back!!!?





kreisl said:


> I have Beta 1.14. hasnt been released yet because has few other bugs as listed in de list. Hybernating sounds about correct. I'll wake up after Wimbledon 2018
> 
> Feel free to contact skyrc and ask, they might give beta to you since you really have \need lto.
> 
> Congrats to owning lto. They are very hard to obtain.


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello, *kreisl*.


kreisl said:


> I have Beta 1.14.....


Thanks for replying to PM. 

I wrote a question, with link for video, on skyrc support. 
I got a response from them: " ..... on testing LTO firmware...."
Much water has flowed since that time and there is no changes (no progress).  


Maybe you give me FW with bugs for testing too ? 
Or, I'll wait for the end of Wimbledon 2018. 

LTO cells to buy easily: aliexpress (https://ru.aliexpress.com/af/%25D1%2582%25D0%25B8%25D1%2582%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0%25D1%2582%25D0%25B0-lto.html?SearchText=титаната+lto&blanktest=0&initiative_id=RS_20180507045220&origin=n&jump=afs), or ebay, or .... . I bought on taobao.

BR,


----------



## cadric

Hi there,

I'm new to charging 18650 and I wanted to start the right way.
I began in March to learn how to handle 18650. 
After I read all the positive things about the MC3000 I bought one in the same Month and a second one last week.
As the original Software is not that perfect and in most discussions Data Explorer is recommended I would like to try that Software.
But unfortunately I don't find my right way into this program, except for the handbook. But I didn't find anything that explaines the handling like installing or how it is possible to start the charging process with DEX.

So can someone give me a hint how to use DEX with:
1. More then one Instance on a PC for at least two MC3000 connected, additionally an Imax B6 mini....
or
2a. how to install it on a raspberry 
2b. how to use it there for at least two chargers ( so again 2 instances )
Else I'm really lost with this software.

Thanks in advance


cadric


----------



## joegmeyers

Is there a SKYRC MC3000 thread or link to vetted programs for various batteries types/capacities?


----------



## klrman

........


----------



## Albert_

*Re: Problems with MC3000 turning on*

Hello,

I haven't used the MC3000 for a several weeks.

I have stored in a safe place and today pulled it out, connected the Skyrc PSU to the MC3000's 12V jack and then plugged in the PSU using it's AC cord.

The MC3000 momentarily turns on then turns off. I've tried several times disconnecting and plugging in the ac cord and MC3000 keeps momentarily turning ON then OFF.

When I try plugging in the 12 DC jack from the rear of the MC3000 nothing happens. The MC3000 only turns on momentarily while the AC/DC power adapter is plugged into the DC jack and then AC cord is then plugged into the ac/dc adapter.

I checked the PSU for dc output voltage and it measures ~15.2 VDC, AC input is ~115 VAC.

I've also tried jiggling the cords to determine perhaps there is a break in one of the cords with no results.

I'm thinking there's either a problem with the MC3000 or it's SkyRC AC/DC PSU.

The SkyRC PSU-60W measures a steady ~15.2 DC volts output, I'm not certain of it's current. The PSU-60W is rated as 15V === 4A. MC3000's DC input shows 11-18 V.

When purchasing the MC3000 I also purchase a Square Trade Warranty for MC3000 which is good for three years after the purchase date of 2/28/2016.

I'm wondering what else to check and test before creating a claim with Square Trade?

Possibly there's something wrong with PSU-60W power supply? Putting out too little current?

I haven't yet tried testing the MC3000 using a volt dc jack connected to a 12 volt power source.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: Problems with MC3000 turning on*

If you dont have another psu you can try connecting it to a PC PSU on the 12v line, to make sure if its the power supply fault.


Albert_ said:


> Hello,
> 
> I haven't used the MC3000 for a several weeks.
> 
> I have stored in a safe place and today pulled it out, connected the Skyrc PSU to the MC3000's 12V jack and then plugged in the PSU using it's AC cord.
> 
> The MC3000 momentarily turns on then turns off. I've tried several times disconnecting and plugging in the ac cord and MC3000 keeps momentarily turning ON then OFF.
> 
> When I try plugging in the 12 DC jack from the rear of the MC3000 nothing happens. The MC3000 only turns on momentarily while the AC/DC power adapter is plugged into the DC jack and then AC cord is then plugged into the ac/dc adapter.
> 
> I checked the PSU for dc output voltage and it measures ~15.2 VDC, AC input is ~115 VAC.
> 
> I've also tried jiggling the cords to determine perhaps there is a break in one of the cords with no results.
> 
> I'm thinking there's either a problem with the MC3000 or it's SkyRC AC/DC PSU.
> 
> The SkyRC PSU-60W measures a steady ~15.2 DC volts output, I'm not certain of it's current. The PSU-60W is rated as 15V === 4A. MC3000's DC input shows 11-18 V.
> 
> When purchasing the MC3000 I also purchase a Square Trade Warranty for MC3000 which is good for three years after the purchase date of 2/28/2016.
> 
> I'm wondering what else to check and test before creating a claim with Square Trade?
> 
> Possibly there's something wrong with PSU-60W power supply? Putting out too little current?
> 
> I have some spare lead acid batteries such as a Group 31 AGM and some open cell RV/Boat batteries and haven't yet tried testing using my own diy 12 volt dc jack.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: Problems with MC3000 turning on*



DeJaVu said:


> If you dont have another psu you can try connecting it to a PC PSU on the 12v line, to make sure if its the power supply fault.



All I have are 12 volt lead acid batteries and a few DC plugs of which one should be the correct size.

If it fails to power on while connected to a 12 volt car or RV/Boat battery I was planning on filing a claim. 

I seem to remember reading about the SkyRC psu's failing. Initially I was going to try and find a better quality PSU, but never go around to it.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: Problems with MC3000 turning on*

I found a cig lighter adapter with difference size DC power jacks, one of which is the correct size for the MC3000.

Plugged the adapter into the a car's cig. lighter and started the car to obtain approx. ~13.8 volts from the battery and alternator.

Plugged in the DC jack to the MC3000 and nothing, then re-plugged in the cig lighter adapter with the dc jack plugged in, and got the same behavior as when using the SkyRC PSU-60W power supply. (power on then off).

So apparently the problem is with the MC3000?

I can't think of any other testing to perform. The M3000 was working just fine the last time I charged a set of batteries a while back.

I went ahead and filed a claim online as it's still covered by a Square Trade Warranty. The warrany was oked and wants me to give it to a electronic repair shop for repair.


----------



## ArmaBene

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just found German 1.14 manual on SkyRC site. Maybe they're going to release FW 1.14...


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ArmaBene said:


> I just found German 1.14 manual on SkyRC site.....


Thanks, LTO in specs.


----------



## Albert_

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Well SquareTrade to agreed to re-reimburse me $99.99 if I send the non-working charger to them.

At first they wanted me to have the MC3000 repaired where I would upload the repaired bill to be reimbursed. However after some research of calling and e-mailing repair shops the minimum repair amount is ~$100.00. I'm told by the some repair shops that they have no schematics, parts list and/or service manual which would increase labor charges.

All have an one hour min. and labor rates of approx. ~$100.00 - ~$125.00 per hour.

I told this to Squaretrade and they responded to provide a repair quote, but none of the shops wanted to provide an official repair quote estimate.

After telling this to Squaretrade they agreed to re-reimburse me for $99.99 where I will ship the non working charger back to them where they provide a free FedEx shipping label.

Anyway my 3 year warranty covers $99.99 which I'll be re-reimbursed.

I'm going for the MC3000 sold by ProgressiveRC on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BLTZ9UE/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Amazon has two different optional 4 year warranties $100-$124.99 for ~$8.50

One from SquareTrade https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BLTZ9UE/?tag=cpf0b6-20

And the other from ASURION https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M65R0ED/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Haven't decided which one to go with. SquareTrade did honor the previous 3 year warranty. However at first they wanted a repair quote which none of the shops contacted would provide. Shops were a ways away from 30 to over 125 miles so I only called them and none that I contacted wanted to provide an official quote on paper to repair the charger.


----------



## ArmaBene

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

FW 1.14 just released


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



ArmaBene said:


> FW 1.14 just released


Thanks for letting us know!

I just upgraded with no issues.

(Note: The way I upgrade is to pull the power and USB out, then plug the power back in with the enter button pressed. This boots it up to a blank screen, it's in firmware update mode already. Then plug the USB in and run the upgrade. It seems to work well this way, no chance of it failing)


----------



## kreisl

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



tjh said:


> I just upgraded with no issues.


The Russi*ns h*ve h*cked it *lre*dy. Their g*mes p*tch works fine! - I h*ve upgr*ded with no issues too


----------



## John Bentley

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I successfully updated to FW 1.14 too. My procedure was to unzip MC3000_Firmware_Update_V1.14.rar and follow the readme.txt.

In essence if you try to follow the upgrade procedure in the original (FW V1.13) manual then MC3000 Monitor V1.03 will return "Can't get firmware from internet" when you [Checking (sic) for new version]. There will be no opportunity, therefore, to update from there as the [Update] button remains disabled. Moreover I'm not sure how TJH's procedure gets around that problem.

Anyway the essential tip from the readme.txt is

> 1. Read the above full QUOTE and follow all instructions, even though the PC Link software does not find the firmware on the update server.
> 
> 2. Now close the PC Link software. We don't need it anymore. We only needed it to test the reliability and stability of your USB communication ...
>
> 3. Finally launch the provided *.EXE [UpgradeFrimware_MC3000_V1.14.exe], and click on the 'Update' button. ....


This resulted in a factory reset. So you'll have to reprogram your settings.

The key improvement in the firmware that I've so far noticed is that "Global Setup View" now contains 8 key combo shortcuts (Up+ SNB#N; and Down + SNB#N).


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Wow, FW1.14. 
Android APP have support LTO too ?


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



John Bentley said:


> Moreover I'm not sure how TJH's procedure gets around that problem.


With previous firmwares, lots of people have tried to update and then encountered an error halfway through the upload of the firmware to the charger. Then they post here "My charger is broken and ruined and a brick" when it's not. Booting the charger with the enter button pressed forces the charger into "I am going to accept a new firmware" mode. This is just the safe way I do firmware upgrades, because previous I'd encountered the error too, but booting the charger this way before flashing I have never had a problem.

My method had nothing to do with loading firmware from the MC3000 app, which has never worked (I think maybe they tried to make it work with the very first upgrade but it didn't) - you've always had to extract the firmware.exe from a zip file and execute it, nothing I said indicated otherwise


----------



## Wrongway

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I still have 1.13 firmware. I don't have any LTO cells so is it worth me upgrading to 1.14? As I can't find a changes list I don't know if anything else was added/changed/repaired.


----------



## fmc1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Wrongway said:


> I still have 1.13 firmware. I don't have any LTO cells so is it worth me upgrading to 1.14? As I can't find a changes list I don't know if anything else was added/changed/repaired.



Post #6 in this thread has a list of the changes in FW 1.14.

Frank


----------



## Wrongway

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



fmc1 said:


> Post #6 in this thread has a list of the changes in FW 1.14.
> 
> Frank



Ahh thanks. I was looking on the SkyRC site for a list.


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

DDV not present in FW1.14.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



inetchik said:


> DDV not present in FW1.14.




I wish there was a changelog on the first page of this thread...


----------



## mauiblue

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Wow. tl;dr

From what I could comprehend after reading some posts and searching in this thread I decided to buy a SkyRC MC3000 off eBay. It came in fast and I had it running the second night I had it. Much more options to charge and condition my batteries. I found the simplistic recording app from SkyRC not well developed and I didn't use it. I was able to update the firmware quite easily. I am finally figuring how to set up the different charging programs for the different cells I have on hand which isn't much. I just bought a Uniden BCD436HP scanner so I stocked up on some Eneloop Pro AA cells. i already have a bunch of 18650 Li-ion cells of varying capacities and age so I'm checking on how much capacity they still have after all these years.

I have a MAHA MH-c808m that I sent back for repair and that worked out well for 6 years until it would not charge on three of the charging bays. I also have a Pila IBC charger that worked out fine after all these years charging my 18650 cells. But now I want to really understand how well my cells are doing and to keep them in top shape. I also bought a Xtar Dragon VP4 prior to the SkyRC MC3000 as I liked the different options it had. So I will be set up well enough into the future with all these chargers on hand to keep my cells running well. Thanks for all the info that I was able to read on this huge thread. It gave me a better understanding on what I should be doing and keeping my eye on. Aloha and mahalo!


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*


(k#90) in TOV, not clicking <UP/DOWN> but long-pressing the button should invoke DDV (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)


Why has it been changed?


----------



## Nichia!

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Can someone post a link to the latest version of this charger please?


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



STIXXXXX said:


> (k#90) in TOV, not clicking <UP/DOWN> but long-pressing the button should invoke DDV (CONFIRMED, FIXED, TESTED)
> 
> 
> Why has it been changed?


Because when using the program shortcuts UP/Down + SNB , you had a big chance ending in DDV instead, if the timing of pressing both buttons wasnt perfectly synchronized.


----------



## qpkorr

luciof said:


> Update: after replacing the MCP3424 chip, the "MCP3424-1 Err" Warning has gone (I guess a "MCP3424-2 Err" would pop out when the other chip fails).
> After a painful reassembly and a quick check, everything works fine.
> 
> I'll do a more thorough test as soon as I find the time.



Just wondering, I don't suppose there are any further updates to this problem?
My unit has been working fine getting minimal use, admittedly connected to a bunch of 12V batteries powered by a solar panel (via a regulator).

Despite the input voltage range of the charger saying 11-18V, and my input never being below 12V (there's a car battery and 8 x 7.2Ah 12V SLA batteries connected to an 80W solar panel only running this charger), it's quite common to get a "Low Voltage Warning" when I connect the power to the MC3000 - but it goes away and operates - er - has operated - fine when I just hit the Return key.

I left a single NIMH AA battery charging in slot 1 (0.7A) - it finished charging yesterday but I left it in there - and this morning I come to get it and see the MCP3424-1 Err message.

I don't know of any damage to the spring-holding posts, and I've not opened the case at all (yet).

I guess I'll have to try to replace the MCP3424 chip - but just thought I should check for any updates on the topic, and share my experience.


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*




DeJaVu said:


> Because when using the program shortcuts UP/Down + SNB , you had a big chance ending in DDV instead, if the timing of pressing both buttons wasnt perfectly synchronized.


Ah, thanks. I never knew you could use the shortcuts, when a slot is already charging. Makes sense then


----------



## Dubalgan

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello,
Do you know if I have to redo my calibration procedure after firmware update ?

Thank you


----------



## wheniwake

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So.... My plug was still on and I plugged in my charger. Little blue spark and nothing from the charger! Power brick still shows red LED but charger is dead. Any ideas?

Tested the brick with a multi, still putting out 15V DC.


----------



## STIXXXXX

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Dubalgan said:


> Hello,
> Do you know if I have to redo my calibration procedure after firmware update ?
> 
> Thank you



Hi, no need to redo calibration.


----------



## pse

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello, which settings would you advice for standard AA eneloops? After reading a bit through the forums, I configured for Refresh cycle (via BT):

Capacity: off
Charge current: 1A
Discharge current: 0,4A
Charge cut current: 0,1A
Discharge cut current: 0,4A
Charge cut voltage: 1,65V
Discharge cut voltage: 1V
Cut temp: 45C
Cut time: off
Rest time: 15m
Restart voltage: OFF
Delta V: 3mV
Tricke C: OFF

Should I for example set the Capacity, Cut time (as a safety measure). Are the other values OK?

Thanks
Peter


----------



## Gaudi

Hi everyone!
I am fairly new to the LiIon batteries and have recently acquired a SkyRC MC3000 charger. Which I have found to be exceptional.
I have read almost through the whole thread, and did some research online on the charger, features, data logging, connection and so forth.

I have played around with it doing some datalogging on my Window Computer with DEX, and have initiated the process of setting up a Raspi 2 B for logging data without the need for an external computer. I have done extensive searching to put the required pieces of information together on how to set up the whole system.

I would like to have the Pi to work as an external datalogging without the need of user intervention for later data retrieval.


So far, I have not found any detailed instructions on how to accomplish what I would like to achieve. These are the main things I would like the system to perform:



Upon plugging the Raspberry, it should automatically start DEX (for which there are some instructions).
It should also start automatically data retrieval.
It should automatically save datalogs (continuously or every xx time) a .CSV (preferred) or .OSD to a specified folder.
It should have a shutdown button to stop logging, close DEX and shutdown Raspbian (this could be accomplished by some scripting and digital inputs).
It could be a great addition to have DEX incrementally change folder or filename of output upon the push of a button (to log data from a different set of batteries and keep track of them.)

If you could launch DEX using command line, specifying device and output that could help.
Perhaps there is a better alternative which is to dump raw data coming from the charger into a CSV file (Python?).

I will really appreciate if you could share your updated implementations. Please feel free to move this post into a new thread if you feel like so.


Thank you!

Regards


----------



## NiMHi

Gaudi said:


> Hi everyone!
> I am fairly new to the LiIon batteries and have recently acquired a SkyRC MC3000 charger. Which I have found to be exceptional.
> I have read almost through the whole thread, and did some research online on the charger, features, data logging, connection and so forth.
> 
> I have played around with it doing some datalogging on my Window Computer with DEX, and have initiated the process of setting up a Raspi 2 B for logging data without the need for an external computer. I have done extensive searching to put the required pieces of information together on how to set up the whole system.
> 
> .....



I was also thinking about combining a raspberry pi with a skyrc mc3000 to do some nice (low power) data logging. Please post about your progress (and results)!


----------



## NiMHi

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



pse said:


> Hello, which settings would you advice for standard AA eneloops? After reading a bit through the forums, I configured for Refresh cycle (via BT):
> 
> Capacity: off
> Charge current: 1A
> Discharge current: 0,4A
> Charge cut current: 0,1A
> Discharge cut current: 0,4A
> Charge cut voltage: 1,65V
> Discharge cut voltage: 1V
> Cut temp: 45C
> Cut time: off
> Rest time: 15m
> Restart voltage: OFF
> Delta V: 3mV
> Tricke C: OFF
> 
> Should I for example set the Capacity, Cut time (as a safety measure). Are the other values OK?
> 
> Thanks
> Peter



AACycler did some interesting tests that might help you determine the optimal settings.

For charge current: http://aacycler.com/post/high-current-vs-low-current/
For charge cut current voltage: http://aacycler.com/post/discharge-cut-off-comparison/ 
For Delta V: http://aacycler.com/post/charge-algorithm-comparison/

For LSD (Low self discharge) cells HKJ prefers no trickle charge. 

To prevent overcharge I would set a maximum capacity and cut time.

Edit: Also some information from HKJ's review of this device:



> *NiMH*
> 
> Be careful with charge current, using anything below 0.3C will probably miss termination on AA/AAA cells. I mostly uses around 0.5C.
> To keep the cells safe if the terminations is missed use a capacity limit between 130% and 150% of the cells capacity and a timer cutoff calculated as capacity/current*1.4, i.e. for a 2000mA cell at 1A it is 2000/1000*1.4 -> 2.8 hours -> 2 hours 48 minutes.
> FOr NiMH the -dv/dt setting must be as low as possible, I used 3mV for my test, but a lower value might be even better. Too low value will not damage the cell, but might give early termination.
> LSD cells do not need any trickle charge, for other cells a 10mA trickle charge can be used, but it not really needed either (Some manufactures recommend a time limited trickle charge after a -dv/dt charge).
> 
> Official termination voltage for NiMH when discharging to measure capacity is 1 volt, but there is no problem going lower (like 0.8 volt).
> 
> With NiMH the cycle mode can be used to refresh cells that has been unused for some times.
> 
> break_in is the official way to measure capacity, but this will first work when the charger software is fixed.


----------



## Gaudi

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Since owning the charger am wondering if it is possible to use a dummy cell with proper connections to test lithium polymer cell phone batteries.
Has anyone got any experience in such hack?
If possible, what would the settings be to test capacity?

Thanks


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

^^^ See the prior thread testing smartphone batteries.


----------



## Gaudi

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> ^^^ See the prior thread testing smartphone batteries.


Thank you!!
This is what I was looking for.

BTW, can other owners confirm the data gather resolution in terms of significant figures for Voltage using DEX?
My data only shows two but have noticed that some charts and data tables on the web show three.

Regards


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hello.

What the method (which algorithm) does the device make when measuring internal resistance, Rac or Rdc ?


----------



## mrQQ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

guys, how can I try to revive deeply discharged li-ion with this? it says check voltage and does nothing


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



inetchik said:


> What the method (which algorithm) does the device make when measuring internal resistance, Rac or Rdc ?



It uses a DC test (current interruption), see the discussion starting here. And see here for why high-frequency AC impedance tests are less useful here.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



mrQQ said:


> guys, how can I try to revive deeply discharged li-ion with this? it says check voltage and does nothing


You need to hold the corresponding slot button pressed, until voltage gets high enough for the chemistry of the battery to be recognized. 
Not 100% sure, but I suppose it would be around 2.5v or something similar for li-ion.


----------



## inetchik

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> It uses a DC test (current interruption).....


Thanks.
Ri dc, good idea, but not good working in mc3000.

I use Russian Standart test: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0U1c-ZXS3GgAU-sMb16zv_


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



inetchik said:


> Thanks. Ri dc, good idea, but not good working in mc3000.



Not clear what you mean. Are you saying that IR testing does not work on your unit?



inetchik said:


> I use Russian Standart test: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0U1c-ZXS3GgAU-sMb16zv_



I don't read Russian. Perhaps you could summarize for us.


----------



## id30209

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



mrQQ said:


> guys, how can I try to revive deeply discharged li-ion with this? it says check voltage and does nothing



This question, i believe, needs a simple answer. Most of you are experts in this topic but some users are just begginers.


----------



## mrQQ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> You need to hold the corresponding slot button pressed, until voltage gets high enough for the chemistry of the battery to be recognized.
> Not 100% sure, but I suppose it would be around 2.5v or something similar for li-ion.



I've tried that, but it also results in "Check Voltage" message...


----------



## klrman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Not clear what you mean. Are you saying that IR testing does not work on your unit?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read Russian. Perhaps you could summarize for us.



Just jumping into this thread, but on top of slot #1 failing on my mc3000, it can't properly read IR anymore on any of the slots. It's gone completely haywire with readings all over the place. Purchased it in feb of this year.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



klrman said:


> Just jumping into this thread, but on top of slot #1 failing on my mc3000, it can't properly read IR anymore on any of the slots. It's gone completely haywire with readings all over the place. Purchased it in feb of this year.



Probably connection problems, you can try cleaning the connections on the charger, but the problem may be the internal rail connection (It is slightly more difficult to clean).


----------



## klrman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> Probably connection problems, you can try cleaning the connections on the charger, but the problem may be the internal rail connection (It is slightly more difficult to clean).



I've cleaned all the exterior connections but it didn't help. Would cleaning the internal rail connections possibly fix the problem with bay #1 failing to charge?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



klrman said:


> I've cleaned all the exterior connections but it didn't help. Would cleaning the internal rail connections possibly fix the problem with bay #1 failing to charge?



The answer is maybe, if the problem is due to bad connections it will, but if the reason is a damaged chip it will not (A reason for a damage chip may be a battery put in backward).
Sorry, but I cannot give a definitive answer.


----------



## klrman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The answer is maybe, if the problem is due to bad connections it will, but if the reason is a damaged chip it will not (A reason for a damage chip may be a battery put in backward).
> Sorry, but I cannot give a definitive answer.



I've never put a battery in backwards. If GB doesn't do anything, I will pull it apart and do some cleaning. I had three mc3000's but sold two to my friends. Should have kept at least one for backup.


----------



## klrman

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



HKJ said:


> The answer is maybe, if the problem is due to bad connections it will, but if the reason is a damaged chip it will not (A reason for a damage chip may be a battery put in backward).
> Sorry, but I cannot give a definitive answer.



Gearbest has suggested to me to send it to their repair center in the US and pay for shipping to get it there. I live in Canada. Has anyone had good luck sending it to their repair center? I'm sort of reluctant to do that as they said if they can't repair it, they would send me a refurbished one. My experience with anything refurbished is "yeah bob, it works........next".

Well, I had nothing to lose so I pulled mine apart and found that the soldering around the + terminal on the board of bay #1 was cracked and lifting on the edges. I've seen cracking like this before on my honda cars on the drl control unit board and needed to resolder them to get the drl's working again but, no such luck with the mc3000 as resoldering didn't change anything. 








For anyone disassembling there mc3000, the wires that run to the battery temp sensor can sneak up on you
when putting it all back together like they did to me in the pic below. There is a plastic slot for each temp sensor
wire where you need to route these to. It's not obvious at first upon disassembly but when you reassemble, as you
can see in the pic, it's easy to have them snag.


----------



## Gauss163

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Heads up mc3Kers. Spare top housings are now being sold on eBay (USA) for $3.99 with free shipping. Get 'em while they last (from China).

Btw, if you're in USA and you need anything else from China then be aware that Trump is killing ePacket, so it will likely no longer be possible to get dirt cheap shipping from China. So now is the time to stock up before the window closes. So long to cheap imported hobby parts. It was sure nice while it lasted.


----------



## hc900

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Heads up mc3Kers. Spare top housings are now being sold on eBay (USA) for $3.99 with free shipping. Get 'em while they last (from China).


Really a decent price, when I bought it it was about $ 20 from GearBest.
Thanks for the information :thumbsup:


There are at least 4 that sell it on eBay at an almost equal price, maybe they ship from HK?


----------



## -Archie-

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gauss163 said:


> Heads up mc3Kers. Spare top housings are now being sold on eBay (USA) for $3.99 with free shipping. Get 'em while they last (from China).



Ordered it. Many thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## savvadesogle

Hello, where to buy mc3000 with latest hardware board? 

(With international shipping, Russia)


----------



## an654

So I purchased a MC3000 and have been happy with it, but its not without its problems. One area that seems to need improvement is Bluetooth. So when I received it, the Bluetooth LED was off, but Bluetooth was on. So I downloaded the iPhone app. and it worked. The blue LED turned on and the charger communicated. But now I want to use it with a different phone. I turned Bluetooth off and back on with the charger, turned off my original phone, but the blue LED stays on and I can't connect any other phone to the charger. Do I have to do completely reset the charger to reset this?


----------



## an654

Not sure if anyone is still here anymore, but one other question. I have noticed that if you place mostly dead NiMh cells in the MC3000, it says "No Battery" so you basically can't charge the cell. We all know that NiMh cells can be almost completely dead, and still charge fine. I have 5 other NiMh chargers, and none have this problem. If there a workaround? The only one I found was use another charger to get them up to maybe 1 V then move the batteries to the MC3000. Yes that works, but its pretty bad that you have to use a $20 charger on your batteries for the $100 charger to work. I know that tapping the "SNB" buttons will unlock LiIon protection, but it doesn't seem to do anything for NiMh. Its hard to believe SkyRc hasn't fixed this. I'm running V1.14


----------



## Gaudi

an654 said:


> Not sure if anyone is still here anymore, but one other question. I have noticed that if you place mostly dead NiMh cells in the MC3000, it says "No Battery" so you basically can't charge the cell. We all know that NiMh cells can be almost completely dead, and still charge fine. I have 5 other NiMh chargers, and none have this problem. If there a workaround? The only one I found was use another charger to get them up to maybe 1 V then move the batteries to the MC3000. Yes that works, but its pretty bad that you have to use a $20 charger on your batteries for the $100 charger to work. I know that tapping the "SNB" buttons will unlock LiIon protection, but it doesn't seem to do anything for NiMh. Its hard to believe SkyRc hasn't fixed this. I'm running V1.14


I have used the "reset protection" feature to bring back to life 0 V reading NiCd.
I am not sure NiMh can withstand being stored 0 V.
In any case, you could start charging by connecting a good battery in parallel for a while until the charger starts its charging.


----------



## Minimoog

Just a quick tip to anyone changing the top panel, when trying to remove the clear display window drill out the 4 screw holes with a 6mm drill. Then the window presses easily out and no need for hearing or levering.


----------



## LiteTheWay

If it says "no battery" you can force charge it (assuming the battery is just overly discharged and not really dead) by holding down the appropriate channel number button (ie., 1 to 4) depending on which channel the battery is in until it will take over and charge by itself. This does not take long and is documented in the User Guide but I don't remember which page.




an654 said:


> Not sure if anyone is still here anymore, but one other question. I have noticed that if you place mostly dead NiMh cells in the MC3000, it says "No Battery" so you basically can't charge the cell. We all know that NiMh cells can be almost completely dead, and still charge fine. I have 5 other NiMh chargers, and none have this problem. If there a workaround? The only one I found was use another charger to get them up to maybe 1 V then move the batteries to the MC3000. Yes that works, but its pretty bad that you have to use a $20 charger on your batteries for the $100 charger to work. I know that tapping the "SNB" buttons will unlock LiIon protection, but it doesn't seem to do anything for NiMh. Its hard to believe SkyRc hasn't fixed this. I'm running V1.14


----------



## tjh

7histology said:


> If it says "no battery" you can force charge it (assuming the battery is just overly discharged and not really dead) by holding down the appropriate channel number button (ie., 1 to 4) depending on which channel the battery is in until it will take over and charge by itself. This does not take long and is documented in the User Guide but I don't remember which page.


Yea I don't recall where it's documented, but I used it twice today with a knackered NiMH. Works fine.


----------



## Lux-Perpetua

I'm wondering if SkyRC plans to release an updated MC3000 any time soon. While brands like MiBoxer have recently updated their chargers to fit protected 21700 batteries (charging bays have 78mm length) it seems we still have to wait for SkyRC to update the MC3000.


----------



## Nev

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It would be nice if skyrc had the possibility to charge 9 volt rechargables.


----------



## hc900

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> It would be nice if skyrc had the possibility to charge 9 volt rechargables.


And 4 D size battery or 4 32650 battery.


----------



## cclight

Lux-Perpetua said:


> I'm wondering if SkyRC plans to release an updated MC3000 any time soon. While brands like MiBoxer have recently updated their chargers to fit protected 21700 batteries (charging bays have 78mm length) it seems we still have to wait for SkyRC to update the MC3000.



Doesn't it already do 21700, at least unprotected flat-tops?


----------



## Lux-Perpetua

Yes, unprotected 21700 do fit into the charging bays but I would also like to charge protected ones like those from Acebeam or Rofis.


----------



## Busa Dave

Decided to charge up many of my lights some are LI several sizes, NMHI C and D --- did 30 batteries in 24 hours. Have 2650 next to a C cell no issues works like a champ and the app lets me watch from my phone! This charger has exceeded my expectations.


----------



## cannesahs

There is *HW v2.2* in wild. It uses (still) FW v1.14. Mainly russian sites and videos have it. They have bought it from chinese ebay sellers.

Does anyone know what is new? Outside it looks same as older HW. Has anyone found teardown photos?

Edit:
Or is this just the same older 2 fan HW and have they just updated v2.2 to be shown in setup screen?

Edit2:
Fixed FW 1.4 -> 1.14
Gearbest reviews say they received HW v2.2


----------



## id30209

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Waiting for more updates on this HW and FW status...


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

My original MC3000 (with the fan reversed and a bit hole cut out for better airflow) is still rocking! I've had this charger ~3 years now, I've thrown all sorts at it and it's never let me down once.
I laugh to myself when I remember that I cut up a phone screen protector and fitted it as a LCD screen protector, how much of a nerd am I? Still, the screen (nor the protector) has any scratches!!
But yea, I love this little charger, it's still amazing. I am in awe that still to this day it hasn't broken a spring, seeing as it's happened to so many other people (with the original hardware, not since they fixed it in later revisions) - I bet I've jinxed it by saying that.

Why do you mean by it "still" uses v1.14. What's wrong with that FW version, it is to all intents and purposes pretty perfect. Esp compared to the original FW release!

I doubt we'll ever see another FW released. Maybe we will, but I think it's pretty bedded in and stable at this point, I bet they're working on the next new thing (though what could be better than what we have? Not much!)

If my MC3000 blew up tomorrow I'd buy another in a heartbeat.


----------



## Nev

I ran two mc3000's side by side running a discharge test on 4 PKcell 14500's (4 in each charger) @ 750ma ,one mc was the 1 fan version & the other was the 2 fan version , the 2 fan version ran 7*C cooler , they tracked each other identically except for the 7* difference. 
so the 2 fan upgrade works very well ,it will come in handy in the summer months.


----------



## hc900

Nev said:


> I ran two mc3000's side by side running a discharge test on 4 PKcell 14500's (4 in each charger) @ 750ma ,one mc was the 1 fan version & the other was the 2 fan version , the 2 fan version ran 7*C cooler , they tracked each other identically except for the 7* difference.
> so the 2 fan upgrade works very well ,it will come in handy in the summer months.


OK for two fan, better than 1 small fan 

But the MC3000 charger with 2 fan display this version : HW v2.2 ??


----------



## Nev

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just checked & yes FW 1.14 ,HW 2.2 , comes from gearbest via Germany , arrived in the uk in about 4-5 days from ordering.


----------



## hc900

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> I just checked & yes FW 1.14 ,HW 2.2 , comes from gearbest via Germany , arrived in the uk in about 4-5 days from ordering.


Whow!! ultra fast shipping.
My last order arrived in about 2 week from UK to Italy.

@Kriesl 
please, we need a new table with the hardware differences from HW 1.1 to HW 2.2 and beyond
In the first page, please

The service costs 10 hazelnuts ???


----------



## raggie33

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

is it just me or does the mc3000 seem to be inaccurate in its capacity readings in the discharge test?


----------



## Nev

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

are you comparing it to the run of the mill charger ? if so then you're probly judging it to a inaccurate charger , you now need to get use to accurate figures instead of optimistic ones.


----------



## raggie33

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> are you comparing it to the run of the mill charger ? if so then you're probly judging it to a inaccurate charger , you now need to get use to accurate figures instead of optimistic ones.



im going by the battery label and a Zanflare C4. so i guess the labels could be cheating or at least they only get that mah under perfect conditions .


----------



## archimedes

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



raggie33 said:


> im going by the battery label ....



Yes, I think that may indeed often be ... optimistic


----------



## Nev

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

usually the cell manufactures state the capacity down to 2.8volts & sometimes 2.5volts, so if you only discharge to 3 volts , the capacity will be less.


----------



## raggie33

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Nev said:


> usually the cell manufactures state the capacity down to 2.8volts & sometimes 2.5volts, so if you only discharge to 3 volts , the capacity will be less.



cool i was wondering about that now im back to loveing this charger i also love my 14500 cells they test at over900 mah. i ordered 10 more of them


----------



## Gaudi

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



raggie33 said:


> cool i was wondering about that now im back to loveing this charger i also love my 14500 cells they test at over900 mah. i ordered 10 more of them



Can you please comment on the source for such batteries?
I am also looking for reliable 14500 batteries.

Thanks


----------



## raggie33

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gaudi said:


> Can you please comment on the source for such batteries?
> I am also looking for reliable 14500 batteries.
> 
> Thanks



got them here im new to this place but so far so good https://www.18650batterystore.com/14500-batteries-s/179.htm


----------



## fmc1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



raggie33 said:


> im going by the battery label and a Zanflare C4. so i guess the labels could be cheating or at least they only get that mah under perfect conditions .



What are the settings on your program?


If you set the capacity to 1000MAh for example and left everything else as default you will get very conservative results. Discharge current will be .25A, cut volt will be 3V and d. reduce will be off. All of those settings are conservative. If you want the best numbers lower the current to .2A, lower the cut voltage to 2.5V and set the d. reduce to .05A. If after doing that and your results are unsatisfactory you more than likely have a bad or fake battery.


Frank


----------



## cannesahs

tjh said:


> Why do you mean by it "still" uses v1.14. What's wrong with that FW version, it is to all intents and purposes pretty perfect. Esp compared to the original FW release!



I agree, FW v1.14 has been flawless in my use after I figured buttons to view graphs had changed.
I had impression FW v1.14 could not show higher HW version number, that's why "still".



hc900 said:


> But the MC3000 charger with 2 fan display this version : HW v2.2 ??



My two fans version don't show HW v2.2 in setup, but ≥1.3. It is bought from NKON at last June.


----------



## raggie33

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

welli tested some new samsung q5s in the skyrc and they only showed like 2800 mah under the normal test. same battery's on my xtar dragon showed like 3004 mah. im thinking a returning the skyrc


----------



## Gaudi

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*



raggie33 said:


> welli tested some new samsung q5s in the skyrc and they only showed like 2800 mah under the normal test. same battery's on my xtar dragon showed like 3004 mah. im thinking a returning the skyrc


Consider that charging current, discharging current, and end voltages can differ, resulting in different values for capacity.
I'd rather return the X-star as the source is a better rated charger.


----------



## raggie33

*Re: 2nd gen dreamcharger presented on IFA Berlin 2014…*

yeah but i have 2 chargers who agree with each other and they are very close to what is on the battery label and my volt meter says one thing the skyrc says another thing


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

How is your volt metre measuring capacity?


----------



## raggie33

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

it isnt i was compering voltage at the time


----------



## tjh

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I would be very careful about how you're measuring and what, before you return your MC3000. It's much more likely your other devices are inaccurate, not the MC3000.

The fact you are "Seeing the values on the label" is an instant red flag, Batteries almost never match their label except under extraordinary conditions.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

On the MC3000 it is easy to verify calibration and do you own calibration, at least if you have a good DMM.


----------



## raggie33

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

ty for the input you 2 man i sure wish the battery makers was more honest


----------



## almoped

Does the charger support temperature based, dT/dt, termination?

Is it possible to control/stop charging of a battery over USB? I wonder if nongnu DataExplorer could be used to implement dT/dt functionality.


----------



## Mp0w3r

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

How accurate is the MC3000 with measuring internal resistance ?


----------



## Nev

on the molicell 26 I get 17 , on 30q I get 28 on LG 3000mah I get 19, I would say it's one of the best & it's very consistant on every bay.


----------



## fmc1

The charger does not support delta temperature termination. It does however support negative delta voltage termination and the value is adjustable. I set Eneloops to 3mV, non LSD NiMh cells to 5mV and NiCd’s to 12mV. They all come off the charger at about the same temperature using those values when I start with fully depleted cells. 


It’s been a few years since I used the PC app but If I remember correctly you can do some rudimentary functions with it like stop and start charging and set some parameters.

Frank


----------



## lemental

Hi,

Hope one of you kind folk could please help me out with my new mc3000 

I'm trying to use 'refresh' mode to test the capacity of my ageing Samsung 30Q 3000mAH rated cells. I've set the cutoff to 3.2v and put 3000mAH in the program setting.

When i do the test, the cells don't reach 3.20v. It seems to get within 0.05v then in the rest phase, it creeps up and shows anything from about 3.25 to 3.3v before starting to charge again.

Firstly, is this normal behaviour for the charger or have I received a lemon here?

If it's perfectly normal, could you please recommend the correct settings for the capacity test?

Thanks
lem


----------



## sbj

You can leave capacity on "off". Discharge current: 0.2C, ie 600mA; Final discharge voltage: 2.50V; Discharge Reduce: "OFF".
It is normal for the no-load voltage of the battery to recover after the discharge current has been switched off. All the more, the higher the discharge current was before switching off.


----------



## lemental

sbj said:


> You can leave capacity on "off". Discharge current: 0.2C, ie 600mA; Final discharge voltage: 2.50V; Discharge Reduce: "OFF".
> It is normal for the no-load voltage of the battery to recover after the discharge current has been switched off. All the more, the higher the discharge current was before switching off.



Thank you  I'll change the settings and retest. The final discharge voltage of 2.50v i thought would be lower than it is safe to discharge but as you've advised this, I'm assuming it is in fact safe!

Given these cells are 3000mAh spec, would setting of 2.50v in theory test and produce a result of 3000mAh with these skyrc settings?

Thanks


----------



## fmc1

lemental said:


> Hi,
> 
> Hope one of you kind folk could please help me out with my new mc3000
> 
> I'm trying to use 'refresh' mode to test the capacity of my ageing Samsung 30Q 3000mAH rated cells. I've set the cutoff to 3.2v and put 3000mAH in the program setting.
> 
> When i do the test, the cells don't reach 3.20v. It seems to get within 0.05v then in the rest phase, it creeps up and shows anything from about 3.25 to 3.3v before starting to charge again.
> 
> Firstly, is this normal behaviour for the charger or have I received a lemon here?
> 
> If it's perfectly normal, could you please recommend the correct settings for the capacity test?
> 
> Thanks
> lem



If you want to see the highest capacity numbers for the battery you need to push it to near its limits. Try this for 30Q’s.


Capacity 3200, this is just a safety thing.


Mode cycle, not refresh because you want to see discharge capacity not charge capacity. Refresh will actually show you both but not until it’s finished with the final charge. Refresh is just a convenience setting it is exactly the same as cycle C>D>C count 1.

Set the cycle mode to C>D, cycle count 1, C. current to 1.5A or about .5C, termination to .1A. You could bring the termination down to .05A to squeeze in a little more charge but I think .1A is enough. Leave target volt at 4.20V.


Set D. Current to .6A or about .2C and D.reduce to -.1A. The D.reduce is what helps with the recovery or creep up affect. You could also lower this even more to -.05A to get that little extra non recovery affect. Bring the cut volt down to at least 2.75V, 3.2V is way too high compared to what manufactures use. You could go lower but don’t pass 2.5V or you will risk damaging the battery. Also add a C. rest of about 10 minutes or so.


If you do this and are still not getting reasonable numbers you could recalibrate the unit if you have a good DMM. It would also be very helpful if you tested more than one battery, this way we have something for comparison.


Frank


----------



## lemental

Thank you, fmc1 
I'm running a test now with those setting and will report back on the results.
I won't be using a setting under 2.75v cut off but in theory, what sort of settings would show the stated capacity of the battery if it was safe to use? If i know this, i'll be able to have a good idea of the condition of the ageing batteries i've not tested before compared with new.

Also, given the voltage drops once the cells are fully charged, is there way of telling what the highest voltage has been after termination if I'm no near the charger when the cycle ends?

Thanks


----------



## lemental

Hi,

Is it normal to get wildly different results when testing cells? I put four 18650s in to see how close they would test with the same settings as above and they were differing by 50-150mAh.

lem


----------



## mrrhh

lemental said:


> Is it normal to get wildly different results when testing cells? I put four 18650s in to see how close they would test with the same settings as above and they were differing by 50-150mAh.



That's not wildly different, that's normal. Wildy different is when one cell measures 2400mAh and another 1800mAh.


----------



## lemental

mrrhh said:


> That's not wildly different, that's normal. Wildy different is when one cell measures 2400mAh and another 1800mAh.



Sorry, i worded that badly. I retested the same cells and the results of each cell were different to the first time they were tested. Each cell varied by up to 150mAH from the first test.


----------



## Drone

Hi All. New to this forum and new to the MC3000, I just got it last week and have been putting it through it's paces. Overall I'm quite impressed, or perhaps I should say overwhelmed at the feature set and performance. I'm not nearly as impressed with the BT app and the Monitor program for the PC. They work alright for what they do, but are lackluster in looks, UI, and features. Ideally I would like a full featured app for both PC and Android that could do pretty much everything that can be done directly on the charger. It seems the program development stopped prematurely. Maybe sales didn't justify it, which would be a fair point.

So the above being said, are there any 3rd party apps or programs that are better to use? Is the code open source? Are there any nice Excel templates for importing the CSVs?

I've only made it to page 47 in the thread so far, so if this has been asked before I apologize, but I do actually read it all and I'll get to it all in time. BTW, it was quite interesting reading about the development of the MC3000. I'm impressed with how open SkyRC was to suggestions and feature additions.

I have no regrets buying this charger and I would buy again today if I had to make the choice again. Great charger for a reasonable price. But yeah... I want more if more is available.


----------



## mrrhh

lemental said:


> Sorry, i worded that badly. I retested the same cells and the results of each cell were different to the first time they were tested. Each cell varied by up to 150mAH from the first test.



It's certainly possible in theory since it depends on a range of factors, charge rate, discharge rate, effects of that on the protection circuitry, etc. E.g. with a high discharge rate the cell will heat up more, which may cause the protection circuitry to trigger earlier or later than with a slow discharge. It also depends on whether, when you sat first time tested, you mean the first ever charge/discharge cycle for the cell or the first time you've tested an already-broken-in cell, the first few times you'd expect to get some variation.


----------



## mrrhh

Drone said:


> Hi All. New to this forum and new to the MC3000, I just got it last week.



Speaking of getting the MC3000, has anyone ordered one from Gearbest recently? They've been sitting on my order for over a month now, took payment but haven't shipped, and their response to my support request was "keep waiting".


----------



## Drone

mrrhh said:


> Speaking of getting the MC3000, has anyone ordered one from Gearbest recently? They've been sitting on my order for over a month now, took payment but haven't shipped, and their response to my support request was "keep waiting".



Not sure where you're at in the world, but if in the US just get it from Progressive RC. I had it in 2 days and only $10 more than GB. I've been using them for years and always had good service and quick deliveries. Plus free shipping CONUS


----------



## mrrhh

Drone said:


> Not sure where you're at in the world, but if in the US just get it from Progressive RC. I had it in 2 days and only $10 more than GB. I've been using them for years and always had good service and quick deliveries. Plus free shipping CONUS


Unfortunately I'm nowhere near the US, so have to buy from GB or alternative, even more dubious sources. If they don't ship within the next week I'll do a chargeback, it's now been over a month and they're showing no signs of shipping after having taken payment for it.


----------



## bamzero

mrrhh said:


> Unfortunately I'm nowhere near the US, so have to buy from GB or alternative, even more dubious sources. If they don't ship within the next week I'll do a chargeback, it's now been over a month and they're showing no signs of shipping after having taken payment for it.


 If you can't cancel the order from their site anymore, contact their support and request cancellation. They are not unreasonable about this sort of thing and probably easier and quicker than going through the chargeback procedure.

Coincidentally I got mine from GB 3 years ago, just left some 18650's on charge and came back to find 3 of 4 spring posts snapped, dammit... only ever had light usage. Came back here for best solution for repair.


----------



## bamzero

So this is what I went with in the end, spring attached to rail itself...


----------



## mrrhh

bamzero said:


> If you can't cancel the order from their site anymore, contact their support and request cancellation. They are not unreasonable about this sort of thing and probably easier and quicker than going through the chargeback procedure.



I've opened a ticket with them, I was influenced somewhat by reading a few discussion threads where people complained about orders not being shipped and having to do chargebacks, so I'll see how it goes. I don't necessarily want to do the chargeback but I'm annoyed that they seem quite happy to take payment without any sign of shipping anything, this is now the second ticket I've had to open just to get an order shipped.


----------



## mrrhh

Got a reply fairly quickly, unfortunately it's just "keep waiting", it may have been scripted. I'll give them another week and see what happens.


----------



## mrrhh

mrrhh said:


> Got a reply fairly quickly, unfortunately it's just "keep waiting", it may have been scripted. I'll give them another week and see what happens.



It's finally (allegedly) shipped, after 1 1/2 months of waiting and submitting tickets for both items I'd ordered. I'll see when/if it arrives.


----------



## mrrhh

It's arrived and works OK, apart from a black sliver about 8mm long inside the LCD display (argh), it's down near the bottom so doesn't block anything but it is rather annoying. However, Bluetooth pairing doesn't work, if I open the app it just hangs with a display of Charger + MAC address (well, BD_ADDR) with the BT light on the charger never going on. If I try and pair manually the BT light on the charger illuminates but I need a PIN to pair, which I don't have. I know people have requested PIN-secured pairing in the past, could it be that they've implemented this now? FW is 1.14, HW is "> 2.2".


----------



## Wild4fire

mrrhh said:


> It's arrived and works OK, apart from a black sliver about 8mm long inside the LCD display (argh), it's down near the bottom so doesn't block anything but it is rather annoying. However, Bluetooth pairing doesn't work, if I open the app it just hangs with a display of Charger + MAC address (well, BD_ADDR) with the BT light on the charger never going on. If I try and pair manually the BT light on the charger illuminates but I need a PIN to pair, which I don't have. I know people have requested PIN-secured pairing in the past, could it be that they've implemented this now? FW is 1.14, HW is "> 2.2".



If you don't know the PIN, usually it's just 0000.


----------



## SpideRMaN

mrrhh said:


> It's arrived and works OK, apart from a black sliver about 8mm long inside the LCD display (argh), it's down near the bottom so doesn't block anything but it is rather annoying. However, Bluetooth pairing doesn't work, if I open the app it just hangs with a display of Charger + MAC address (well, BD_ADDR) with the BT light on the charger never going on. If I try and pair manually the BT light on the charger illuminates but I need a PIN to pair, which I don't have. I know people have requested PIN-secured pairing in the past, could it be that they've implemented this now? FW is 1.14, HW is "> 2.2".



I got no PIN request, just switch on Bluetooth, run the app and click on the MAC address (works well on Note 4 android 5.1.1)

My MC3000 FW is 1.14, HW is > 2.2


----------



## mrrhh

Wild4fire said:


> If you don't know the PIN, usually it's just 0000.



Tried that, and 1234, and 3000 just in case, wrong PIN in every instance.

Eventually got it working by restarting the app a few times. Since manual pairing doesn't work for lack of a PIN, could it be that the app supplies a PIN? Earlier posters complained that pairing wasn't PIN-protected but it seems to be protected now.


----------



## dma_k

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Dear all,

I am trying to test the capacity of GP ReCyko+ AA 270AAHC batteries


Capacity (max/min): 2600mAh / 2500mAh 
Charge: 250mA @16 hours 
using the current which is printed on the side of the battery. I used the following program:


Mode: Refresh 
Capacity: 2800mAh 
C.Current: 0.25A 
D.Current: -0.20A 
Target volt: 1.65V 
Delta peak: 3mV 
Trickle C.: OFF 
Trickle time: OFF 
Restart volt: OFF 
D.Reduce: OFF 
Cut volt: 1.0V 
Cut temp: 45°C 
Cut time: OFF 
However, as also been mentioned before in wonderful posts by *NiMHi* and *fmc1*, it is not straightforward to do so as the charger reports "Capacity cut" on 1st Charge step and even does not continue with discharge step.

Any ideas how to tune the program to charge with low currents? Thanks!



NiMHi said:


> AACycler did some interesting tests that might help you determine the optimal settings.
> 
> For charge current: http://aacycler.com/post/high-current-vs-low-current/
> For charge cut current voltage: http://aacycler.com/post/discharge-cut-off-comparison/
> For Delta V: http://aacycler.com/post/charge-algorithm-comparison/
> 
> For LSD (Low self discharge) cells HKJ prefers no trickle charge.
> 
> To prevent overcharge I would set a maximum capacity and cut time.
> 
> Edit: Also some information from HKJ's review of this device:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NiMH
> 
> Be careful with charge current, using anything below 0.3C will probably miss termination on AA/AAA cells. I mostly uses around 0.5C.
> To keep the cells safe if the terminations is missed use a capacity limit between 130% and 150% of the cells capacity and a timer cutoff calculated as capacity/current*1.4, i.e. for a 2000mA cell at 1A it is 2000/1000*1.4 -> 2.8 hours -> 2 hours 48 minutes.
> FOr NiMH the -dv/dt setting must be as low as possible, I used 3mV for my test, but a lower value might be even better. Too low value will not damage the cell, but might give early termination.
> LSD cells do not need any trickle charge, for other cells a 10mA trickle charge can be used, but it not really needed either (Some manufactures recommend a time limited trickle charge after a -dv/dt charge).
> 
> Official termination voltage for NiMH when discharging to measure capacity is 1 volt, but there is no problem going lower (like 0.8 volt).
> 
> With NiMH the cycle mode can be used to refresh cells that has been unused for some times.
> 
> break_in is the official way to measure capacity, but this will first work when the charger software is fixed.
Click to expand...




fmc1 said:


> If you want to see the highest capacity numbers for the battery you need to push it to near its limits. Try this for 30Q’s.
> 
> Capacity 3200, this is just a safety thing.
> 
> Mode cycle, not refresh because you want to see discharge capacity not charge capacity. Refresh will actually show you both but not until it’s finished with the final charge. Refresh is just a convenience setting it is exactly the same as cycle C>D>C count 1.
> 
> Set the cycle mode to C>D, cycle count 1, C. current to 1.5A or about .5C, termination to .1A. You could bring the termination down to .05A to squeeze in a little more charge but I think .1A is enough. Leave target volt at 4.20V.
> 
> Set D. Current to .6A or about .2C and D.reduce to -.1A. The D.reduce is what helps with the recovery or creep up affect. You could also lower this even more to -.05A to get that little extra non recovery affect. Bring the cut volt down to at least 2.75V, 3.2V is way too high compared to what manufactures use. You could go lower but don’t pass 2.5V or you will risk damaging the battery. Also add a C. rest of about 10 minutes or so.
> 
> If you do this and are still not getting reasonable numbers you could recalibrate the unit if you have a good DMM. It would also be very helpful if you tested more than one battery, this way we have something for comparison.
> 
> Frank


----------



## sbj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Try the "Break_in" program. (I have not tried it yet)


----------



## fmc1

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

The MC3000’s primary method of termination for NiMh is delta peak. Being you have your program set for delta 3mV and your C. Current set for .25A there is a very good chance you will never see that voltage drop. That’s why it’s terminating on capacity. I do not have any of the batteries you are testing but it looks like they are similar at least in capacity to an Eneloop pro AA. I have lots of Eneloop pro AA’s.
When I test Eneloop pro AA’s this is the program I use. 


Mode: Cycle C>D count 1 
Capacity: 2800mAh  
C.Current: 1.25A  
D.Current: .65A 
Target volt: 1.65V  
Delta peak: 3mV  
Trickle C.: off  
Trickle time: off  
D.Reduce: -.1A 
Cut volt: .9V 
Cut temp: 45°C  
Cut time: off 
 
If you want to use the very low charge current and avoid a capacity cut. You can just set the delta peak to zero and the target volt to 1.50V. In my option those settings will not fully charge the battery and produce lower capacity numbers. I see absolutely no good reason to charge them with such low current.


Frank


----------



## dma_k

Thanks for the information, Frank!

I have tried to charge with current 0.4 and it resulted one capacity cut out of four. I will keep on increasing current until it becomes stable.



fmc1 said:


> If you want to use the very low charge current and avoid a capacity cut, you can just set the delta peak to zero and the target volt to 1.50V. In my option those settings will not fully charge the battery and produce lower capacity numbers. I see absolutely no good reason to charge them with such low current.



I agree, but I simply wanted to apply instructions which are printed on the side of the battery. Do you consider these instructions totally misleading? Or are they targeting dumb chargers for which you plug in the batteries and wait for 16 hours?



sbj said:


> Try the "Break_in" program. (I have not tried it yet)



I would probably try it one day. However it will last waaaay long as it is timer-based program (16h + 6h charge then 5h discharge), but it is exactly what is printed on the battery. However I would expect that instructions on the battery should be an optimal charging recommendations, or am I wrong? I am thinking about the balance between how to fully charge the battery on one side but stick to reasonable time (say, C→D→C cycle in 15 hours) from another side...


----------



## sbj

dma_k said:


> ... Or are they targeting dumb chargers for which you plug in the batteries and wait for 16 hours?...


Exactly this standard charging method the manufacturers have always written on their batteries, because they can not know whether the user uses a charger with automatic charge cut off. Previously, 14 hours was recommended as the charging time. At 16 hours, the battery is definitely a little bit overcharged.
This method can be used when a pack of several cells connected in series is to be fully charged.

I would charge single cells to test the capacity as well as in normal use, namely with 0.4 - 0.5C charging current and -dV detection.
If you want to enter a capacity as an emergency stop, it should be at least 30% higher than the manufacturer's discharge capacity. So here about 3400mAh.
But it is better, if you do not trust the automatic cut off to feel towards the end of the charging time by hand, if the battery heats appreciably. Because then the automatic should switch off immediately.

With this setting, then also a cycle should work.


----------



## TeronG

Hello,
all my NiMH battery chargers, except MC3000, use pulsing current - even dumb ones, like Panasonic BQ-CC51E. According to lygte-info.dk almost all chargers charge NiMH batteries that way. In contrast, MC3000 use constant current and only makes short pauses every 20s to measure the voltage. So what is a better way do charge nickel based batteries? I mean, there must be a reason most chargers pulse, are there any advantages of this?


----------



## HKJ

TeronG said:


> I mean, there must be a reason most chargers pulse, are there any advantages of this?



Money. A pulsing charger is cheaper to make.


----------



## hc900

New APP 3.75 for SKYRC MC3000 :

DANGEROUS release, stay away!
This release dont work on my devices with Android 7, 8 and 9


----------



## hc900

hc900 said:


> New APP 3.75 for SKYRC MC3000 :
> 
> DANGEROUS release, stay away!
> This release dont work on my devices with Android 7, 8 and 9


Today appear the new release on SKYRC site: APP 3.77, but not work.



The old APP 3.71 have more less issues, crashes occasionally, but work .


----------



## satelite

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Why new app wants access to location. Something smells here.


----------



## hc900

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Today the new APP 3.78 work, with little graphics changes.


But this one have less "fuzzy logic" with multiple chemical battery in the four slot.

The APP 3.71 remain the more friendly.


----------



## jabz

Hi I use my MC3000 HW >1.3, FW 1.14 with AA Eneloop Pro BK-3HCCE 2450mAh batteries.
I have setup a profile on MC300 App iOS, with following setting

Eneloop Charge
Capacity 2400mAh
Charge Current 1.50A
Charge Cut Current 0.15A
Charge Cut Volt. 1.65V
Cut Temp 45 C
Cut Time 120Min
Restart Volt 1.45V
Detal V 10mV
Trickle C 10mA

When I use the app to start charging, after short while I get Notification "Disconnect charger!" I keep getting these notifications. But when I look at the charger, its working ok. Is this a bug?
Also how can I set Capacity to 2450mAh? It only goes up by 100mAh, so can only set 2400 or 2500.

thanks


----------



## dts71

I have the same question around app saying “Disconnect charger!” - initially I thought something was wrong with the charger.
The message is regardless if I charge or not.


The capacity setting is a fallback if the Delta V is not triggered so you can put it a little higher than the stated battery capacity.

Cheers!



jabz said:


> Hi I use my MC3000 HW >1.3, FW 1.14 with AA Eneloop Pro BK-3HCCE 2450mAh batteries.
> I have setup a profile on MC300 App iOS, with following setting
> 
> Eneloop Charge
> Capacity 2400mAh
> Charge Current 1.50A
> Charge Cut Current 0.15A
> Charge Cut Volt. 1.65V
> Cut Temp 45 C
> Cut Time 120Min
> Restart Volt 1.45V
> Detal V 10mV
> Trickle C 10mA
> 
> When I use the app to start charging, after short while I get Notification "Disconnect charger!" I keep getting these notifications. But when I look at the charger, its working ok. Is this a bug?
> Also how can I set Capacity to 2450mAh? It only goes up by 100mAh, so can only set 2400 or 2500.
> 
> thanks


----------



## JCE

Just rec'd my MC3000. 5 days now and I have few complaints, really not that complicated if you know the numbers. One question though, Is there any way to replay discharge numbers (C>D>C or cycle) when the process is finished?

I've tried in the Android app and no joy, I'm running 4 Efest 2500 18650s (I know) from the display and I just can't figure it out


----------



## fmc1

JCE said:


> Just rec'd my MC3000. 5 days now and I have few complaints, really not that complicated if you know the numbers. One question though, Is there any way to replay discharge numbers (C>D>C or cycle) when the process is finished?
> 
> I've tried in the Android app and no joy, I'm running 4 Efest 2500 18650s (I know) from the display and I just can't figure it out




Read post #4763 and #4764

If I understand your question the information will help you.

Frank


----------



## STIXXXXX

Can anyone, who uses dataexplorer with the MC3000, please explain to me, what is the difference between MC3000 and MC3000-SET? I didn´t understand the explanation I found in the www.


----------



## fmc1

STIXXXXX said:


> Can anyone, who uses dataexplorer with the MC3000, please explain to me, what is the difference between MC3000 and MC3000-SET? I didn´t understand the explanation I found in the www.




Read post #4400

Frank


----------



## STIXXXXX

fmc1 said:


> Read post #4400
> 
> Frank



Thanks fmc1. Now I´m enlightened 
I´ve got another question:
Is it possible to delete slots 1-4 in DEX for the MC3000 and only show the combined tab?
edit: nevermind, fixed it


----------



## mrQQ

Hello,

what are proper settings for charging IMR cells?

Thank you.


----------



## sbj

0,5C

(Question: Which tires fit on my car? Answer: Car tires)


----------



## mrQQ

sbj said:


> 0,5C
> 
> (Question: Which tires fit on my car? Answer: Car tires)




what about termination voltage etc?


----------



## sbj

4,2V
But it would be nice if you had a link or a detailed description of the batteries.
It could e.g. 10440 or 32650 cells.

Equally important if you want to speed up charging or save it.
The right settings depend more on this than on chemistry.


----------



## jabz

Hi Please, Help 
After the last charging of Eneloop Pro cells, my MC3000 is not powering up any longer. I thought I was the PSU, so I purchased another power supply which is switchable between 11-22 volts.
I set it to 15V which is specified to 5amps on this PSU. 
I plugged it into the MC3000, and the same thing its not powering up. I can see the MC3000 display backlight flicker a bit, but that's it, no other sign of life.
Is my MC3000 charger buggered? I am disappointed it failed so easily, I've only charged in it about a dozen times.

My unit has 1 fan. Its the HW 1.40+ version.
Can it be fixed? 

thanks

Jabz


----------



## Rimlyanin

maukka said:


> That's very clever. I'd been using my older MC3000 with snapped posts with some random pieces of fill to achieve contact. Took it apart and put some cable ties in there, but must've shorted something out while putting it back together since now I get the following error from the ADC (MCP3424-1 Err). Tried reassembling it and checking that everything's ok, but the charger doesn't seem to recover from it. At least I have a spare...



I found your message in the search.
Did you solve the problem? 

I left home for the holidays and turned off all.
But when I came back, my MC3000 shows an error "MCP3424-1 Err" when turned on. 
I'm very upset, 
I didn't plan such spending after the holidays


kreisl said:


> If you contact sky they'll probably ask you to send it in for component replacement or something, a repair that would cost something


perhaps I should do the same? Or just buy something else.



kreisl said:


> I have a spare too


I don't have a spare.
Have another replacement, LII-202
But this is not an equivalent replacement


----------



## wus

*Strange Ri values*

I received my MC3000 before christmas, but started to use it only a few days ago. Want to check the state of all my round cells :twothumbs They are mostly eneloops of very different ages. 

1. Some of the older ones were directly refused when I tried to charge them. Is there anything I can do with them so that the MC3000 can measure their remaining capacity? Charged with Sanyo NC-MQN04E or Camelion BC-0907, they were still working, why would the MC3000 refuse them? Unfortunately I forgot the exact error message that the MC3000 displayed. 

2. Some other, also old cells (AA eneloops, 1900mAh) were not refused, but the charger shows Ri values from 700 up to 1300 mOhm. If that were true, charging with 1000mA (as I do) should result in voltages up to 2.7V. However the voltages observed during charging are somewhere near 1.5V (I set the limit to 1.65V and it never tripped). What's wrong here? How does the MC3000 measure Ri?


----------



## sbj

*Re: Strange Ri values*

Could be a contact problem. Maybe press the minus contact against the battery and turn the battery a little.
The same applies when measuring the internal resistance (ideally when it is charged).

For some reason, the charger shows the charging voltage when charging NiMh in the slot overview much lower than you do with a multimeter.
But if you look at the average voltage after pressing the slot button, it is significantly higher (at least with old batteries with high internal resistance).

I think before you take the trouble to determine the capacity of old batteries via charge / discharge cycles, many can be discarded based on too high internal resistance.
For example, if AA batteries have more than 200mOhms.


----------



## philco782

*Low voltage LiIon cells*

Has anyone solved the issue of the MC3000 refusing to charge a LiIon cell whose voltage has dropped too low? I have some LED torches that don't have any protection for LiIon batteries (such as a couple Anker lights, which claim to say they support operation of 18650 batteries), and if I use them too long after they start dropping in brightness, the battery may get a little over discharged.

Currently, what I am doing is to put the battery into the charger, then take a fully charged "jump start battery" and connect the leads in parallel, then start the MC3000 charge, and from there everything is fine. 

I get that some people think charging an over-discharged LiIon is a bad thing, but if it's not entirely flat, there seems no harm. I've jumped batteries many times like this, and then ran a Refresh on the MC3000 to check the capacity, and there is no loss...

Otherwise, is there another charger on the market that will charge a low voltage LiIon cell?


----------



## BVH

*Re: Low voltage LiIon cells*

".....there seems no harm.....

Until after your first experience with a Vent With Flame incident. Then, you might have a different thought process.

Maybe there was some specific Engineering of the software that took place in the 3000 to prevent Vent With Flame incidents?


----------



## wus

*Re: Low voltage LiIon cells*

Where can I find this MC3000 Monitor V1.03 Software?

Edit: 
Apparently I was blind when I visited SkyRC's MC3000 download page last time. Or is it possible that it wasn't offered for download there, a few days ago?


----------



## philco782

*Re: Low voltage LiIon cells*



BVH said:


> ".....there seems no harm.....
> 
> Until after your first experience with a Vent With Flame incident. Then, you might have a different thought process.
> 
> Maybe there was some specific Engineering of the software that took place in the 3000 to prevent Vent With Flame incidents?




This is supposed to be an advanced charger for advanced users? 

As far as I can tell, there are many ways this charger can be configured to destroy a battery and set it afire, in which the software will not stop you from doing. So with regards to setting a minimum voltage requirement, why not?


----------



## fmc1

*Re: Low voltage LiIon cells*

I charge overly discharged NiCd’s almost weekly in the MC3000. I just save the charge program for NiCd AA’s to all slots. After I insert the batteries the display will just show “no battery”. I hold down the slot number button for about 5 to 10 seconds until the program starts. You only need to get about 8mAh’s into the battery and then the voltage will jump right up. NiMh batteries do the same thing. I never tried this with LiIon batteries but I’m inclined to believe the same functionality is there in the charger.


The safety factor in using LiIon batteries that have been over discharged often is another conversation.


Frank


----------



## DT123

*Capacity Cut problem*

I have recently several problems to charge NiMH cells. I do not get a proper termination.
Everything started with some older LSD cells. (2000 mAh)
Charging them with 1000 mA and using 0dV termination will keep the cell half empty.
With 700 mA and 1mV charging won't stop till I get a Capacity Cut.
With 1000 mA and 1mV I will get a BattTemp Cut.

Okay - old cells. Time to get rid of them.

But I had afterwards similar problems with a set of 4 brand new Energizer Power Plús 700 cells.
Charging them with 400 mA doesn't terminate with 1mV. I get again a capacity cut error (1080 mAh since I did not change from Eneloop AAA Pro to the Standard AAA).
I cycled the cells (discharge with 200 mA till 1.0 V, Charge with 400 mA) 
With 0dV it looks a little bit better - at least 3 of them stopped charging (after 731, 745, 802 mAh). But for the 4th one I got again a capacity cut (960 mAh, voltage is 1.50V).

I can hardly remember that I had ever a capacity cut within the last 3 years. And now suddenly so many.
I can charge the cells (the old and new ones) with an Opus BT-C2000 without problems.

Any idea what I can do? Charging only to 1.48 V? :-/
Increasing the current? (but 400 mA is already more than 0.5 C and should be in generally fine)

Does anyone of you also have Energizer Power Plús 700? How do you charge them successfully?


----------



## wus

My recommendation: if it's only about charging, use the BT-C2000.

I also have a couple older NiMH cells which charge seemingly well in other chargers (the white Sanyo slow charger, Camelion BC-0907), but not in all. The MC3000 and also the EBL U421 refuse them. These cells still work well in applications that don't need high currents, but not where higher currents are needed. The MC3000 revealed that they have high Ri, from 350 mOhm to almost 1000 mOhm. 

What Ri do your cells have?

In my opinion, 0 or 1 mV dU/dt is too low. I use 3mV, after this recommendation. And 1.50 V as cutoff is also too low. I observed voltages of up to 1,56V during charging. I left the value at the factory preset for NiMH, 1.65V.


----------



## DT123

wus said:


> In my opinion, 0 or 1 mV dU/dt is too low.


But any higher value would make the situation worse.
As long 0 or 1 mV work they it is better for the cells. (see the tests of AAcycler)

The new AAA cells have a Ri of 73-85 mOhm.

Charging with 500 mA & 1mV termination worked (at least the 1st time).


----------



## hc900

DT123 said:


> But any higher value would make the situation worse.
> As long 0 or 1 mV work they it is better for the cells. (see the tests of AAcycler)
> 
> The new AAA cells have a Ri of 73-85 mOhm.
> 
> Charging with 500 mA & 1mV termination worked (at least the 1st time).


OK for 500mA on AAA battery.
Normal value 75 milli Ohm for this battery AAA size


For better recharge:

1] Set the voltage cutoff to 1,65 Volt

2] Increase the current charge for AA battery to 1000mA or more 
(the SKYRC MC-3000 have real costant charge current, not high current pulsed as other low cost or older battery charger)


----------



## Dascombe

*Possible major bug (1A trickle charging)*

So, played around with my new MC3000 this weekend and I seem to have discovered a pretty major flaw in the programming of the iOS app. Using the eneloop or NiMH “charge” program results in a trickle charge beginning exactly 5 minutes after completion of the program and of exactly the charge rate, despite having trickle explicitly set to “off”. Talk about cooking some eneloops .


Here’s my parameters:






And here's the result:


----------



## sbj

*Re: Possible major bug (1A trickle charging)*

You have set some parameters that are illogical for NiMh.
You definitely have to set "Restart Volt" to "OFF". This is the reason that the charger starts charging again.
I would also deactivate "Charge Cut Current".


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Possible major bug (1A trickle charging)*

Why would anyone want to restart based on a voltage, anyway? Does that make sense for _any_ chemistry, apart from perhaps lead-acid?


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: Possible major bug (1A trickle charging)*



sbj said:


> You have set some parameters that are illogical for NiMh. You definitely have to set "Restart Volt" to "OFF".



That’s the default setting for both eneloop and NiMH.



> This is the reason that the charger starts charging again.



I’ll give it another go tonight and let ya know. The strange thing is that the “trickle” starts exactly at 5 mins every time.


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: Possible major bug (1A trickle charging)*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Why would anyone want to restart based on a voltage, anyway? Does that make sense for _any_ chemistry, apart from perhaps lead-acid?



Not sure but aside from changing the capacity and attempting to turn off Trickle, those are the defaults in the app for eneloop. The app is a real POS to put it politely.


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: Possible major bug (1A trickle charging)*



sbj said:


> You have set some parameters that are illogical for NiMh.
> You definitely have to set "Restart Volt" to "OFF". This is the reason that the charger starts charging again.



So I did as you suggested and it seems to have worked. :thumbsup:What I'm left wondering is how it re-started exactly at 5 mins each time. Some of the charges finished at 1.52-1.53V so I doubt the cells would have had time to settle back to 1.45V in order for the restart to kick in. Also, the Trickle indicator is a bit misleading; a re-start at 1A can hardly be considered a trickle.


----------



## satelite

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Is mc3000 purpose to stop li-ion storage program after desired voltage is reached? My mc3000 just continues program forever. Yes i readed user manual and it doesnt give answer.


----------



## sbj

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

It should stop when the set values are reached. As long as it still indicates a small charge- or discharge current, these requirements have not yet been met.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

*Re: Possible major bug (1A trickle charging)*



Dascombe said:


> So I did as you suggested and it seems to have worked. :thumbsup:What I'm left wondering is how it re-started exactly at 5 mins each time. Some of the charges finished at 1.52-1.53V so I doubt the cells would have had time to settle back to 1.45V in order for the restart to kick in. Also, the Trickle indicator is a bit misleading; a re-start at 1A can hardly be considered a trickle.



I don't think the trickle was triggered. It was the re-charge that was triggered because the resting voltage dropped below 1.45v. And yes, Eneloops will very quickly drop down below 1.45v right after a charge. As for why it's exactly 5 mins... probably a internal timed check or something.

As for why they even have a recharge on voltage setting, and why it would be the default in the Apple App....? Yeah, kinda dumb.


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: Possible major bug (1A trickle charging)*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> I don't think the trickle was triggered. It was the re-charge that was triggered because the resting voltage dropped below 1.45v. And yes, Eneloops will very quickly drop down below 1.45v right after a charge. As for why it's exactly 5 mins... probably a internal timed check or something.


I think you (and sbj) are right. The trickle indicator is also weird. So I went back and tried to recreate the 5 min. issue and so far have been unable to. Of course, I deleted and re-installed the app and did a factory reset on the charger so.....who knows.

Regardless, the app is a real piece of work (sarcasm obviously). So far, here's the laundry list of issues I've encountered:



notifications work only randomly. Sometimes quitting and re-launching the app results in getting multiple notification sounds for completed charges. Better late then never I guess. 
green cell image/picto-graphic: when inserting or removing a cell from the charger, the pic should appear showing approximate state of charge and then disappear when a cell is removed. Sometimes, noting appears upon cell insertion and sometimes, the image remains after a cell is removed and even persists after force quitting the app and re-launching. Total crapshoot. 
related to the above, the picto-graphic is supposed to update periodically to approximate the state of charge. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Apparently it has mood swings. 
No ability to rename programs 
Random disconnect pop-up messages despite standing right beside the charger 
Crashes occasionally? Yup, does that too. 
The graph loves to wig out from time to time. Even after a program completes, clicking on details may show the graph still updating, but then all of sudden, it re-draws backwards to the end of charge state. 
Of course, everyone's favourite: the little gear icons beside each cell on the details screen that do absolutely nothing. 
accidentally tapping on a slot button instantly kills a running program with nary a prompt. I mean, it's not like accidental presses ever occur on a highly sensitive capacitive touch screen  
a UI that would be right at home on iOS 4 


Next, onto the PC software. :shakehead


----------



## satelite

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



sbj said:


> It should stop when the set values are reached. As long as it still indicates a small charge- or discharge current, these requirements have not yet been met.


It should but it does not. About 24h with voltage reached it stills continues and doesnt show program ebded. Button lights still being Red.


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



satelite said:


> Is mc3000 purpose to stop li-ion storage program after desired voltage is reached? My mc3000 just continues program forever. Yes i readed user manual and it doesnt give answer.



I just did a storage test on one of my cells (LG ABC21865) and it stopped fine. These are the settings I used:

Capacity - 2800 mAh
Charge Current - 1.00A
Charge Cut Current - 0.05A
Charge Cut Volt. - 3.80V
Cut Temp. - 45C
Cut Time - OFF


----------



## satelite

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Dascombe said:


> I just did a storage test on one of my cells (LG ABC21865) and it stopped fine. These are the settings I used:
> 
> Capacity - 2800 mAh
> Charge Current - 1.00A
> Charge Cut Current - 0.05A
> Charge Cut Volt. - 3.80V
> Cut Temp. - 45C
> Cut Time - OFF


I dont mean test. I mean discharging cell to a desired voltage for long term storage.


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



satelite said:


> I dont mean test. I mean discharging cell to a desired voltage for long term storage.



Check to make sure the setting "D.Reduce" isn't set to zero. The manual specifically states that this isn't particularly useful and could take forever but for some stupid reason, it's set that way by default for the storage program.


Even stranger still, is that the "D.Reduce" setting isn't named that way in either the smartphone app or the PC software. Unbelievable. The more I play with this thing, the more apparent it is that it's a decent piece of hardware mired by absolutely awful programming and software.


----------



## Jcy

Just got my mc2000 but is it normal that one fan is not spinning? Or does it detect which side need cooling and switch on the respective fan? Thanks.


----------



## Baha

Dear friends! help me find the firmware Upgrade Firmware MC3000_V11.exe download, I have during the update, this error popped up. “Start vector err1”


----------



## Dascombe

Heads up, there's a new firmware version released: ver. 1.15 No idea what it fixes since there are no release notes.

Also, there's an update for the Android app, version 3.80. Notes say: "App interfaces optimized for better user experience". Nothing for iOS as of yet but hopefully that's just down to Apple's approval process.


----------



## radellaf

Dascombe said:


> Heads up, there's a new firmware version released: ver. 1.15 No idea what it fixes since there are no release notes.
> 
> Also, there's an update for the Android app, version 3.80. Notes say: "App interfaces optimized for better user experience". Nothing for iOS as of yet but hopefully that's just down to Apple's approval process.



iOS app update just showed up. It's very different, and for now the iPad display is messed up (cuts off the bottom of the screen) but it looks nice on the iPhone. Still works with iOS 9.3.5. Was kind of hoping they'd have a good landscape option instead, but hey.

When I click the new "Settings" feature it complained about firmware so I finally updated from 1.13. 1.15 apparently supports changing some device settings from the app.


----------



## Dascombe

So I see that the iOS version has been updated. Where do I begin....


*1. First off, Programs are cut-off by the bottom navigation menu and are not accessible. Also, Programe?? Parle-tu Francais?:thinking:*








*2. BATT IR??? I thought these were the slot numbers.*








*3. Now we're speaking Chinese. I'm all for multiculturalism but c'mon
*







*4. More atrocious spelling. At least they didn't spell it "disturding"*








*5. No idea why "type" and "mode" are bunched together. Same for "status" and "capacity".*









Anyway, "A" for effort I guess. Really though, **


----------



## id30209

I had the same thought.
Good review, my point also.

@SkyRC: guys can you make those changes look so everybody understand?


----------



## Ecmslee

Just saw your post on the iOS app update and it made me want to check the app on my Pixel. Strangely enough when I checked each of the screens that showed issues there were no problems on my device. No misspellings, Chinese, etc. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Do you happen to have any font scaling or zoom set on your phone? Anyway, it looks like SkyRC needs to step up their iOS game.


----------



## Dascombe

Ecmslee said:


> Just saw your post on the iOS app update and it made me want to check the app on my Pixel. Strangely enough when I checked each of the screens that showed issues there were no problems on my device. No misspellings, Chinese, etc. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Do you happen to have any font scaling or zoom set on your phone? Anyway, it looks like SkyRC needs to step up their iOS game.



The issues I highlighted above are with the iOS app. I have the app on an old Android phone and it's much better.


----------



## id30209

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I’ve sent SkyRC email with details and link to this post and shortly they replied that update is in progress.
I hope no bs....


Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## Gaudi

Dascombe said:


> Heads up, there's a new firmware version released: ver. 1.15 No idea what it fixes since there are no release notes.
> 
> Also, there's an update for the Android app, version 3.80. Notes say: "App interfaces optimized for better user experience". Nothing for iOS as of yet but hopefully that's just down to Apple's approval process.



From the news blog (https://www.skyrc.com/blogger/221):

_*The notable change is to support the latest App (V1.49 for iOS, V3.80 for Android)*_


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



id30209 said:


> I’ve sent SkyRC email with details and link to this post and shortly they replied that update is in progress.
> I hope no bs....
> 
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk



:goodjob: Hope they manage to implement some fixes. Now I feel like I should have asked for more. Wish list incoming.....


----------



## id30209

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Aaaand new IOS app has been updated...


Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



id30209 said:


> Aaaand new IOS app has been updated...
> 
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk



Yes, I saw that. They fixed a couple of things, namely the spelling/labelling errors and Chinese Characters. There is still the issue of programs at the bottom of the screen being inaccessible/cut-off by the menu bar:


----------



## Dascombe

Jcy said:


> Just got my mc2000 but is it normal that one fan is not spinning? Or does it detect which side need cooling and switch on the respective fan? Thanks.



Try going into the set-up menu and turning them ON from Auto. When I do this, both fans spin together.


----------



## Dascombe

So I finally updated my MC3000's FW to v1.15. As user radellaf mentioned earlier, it enables access to a new APP settings menu which allows changing some device parameters. Here's what it looks like on iPhone:


----------



## jabz

jabz said:


> Hi Please, Help
> After the last charging of Eneloop Pro cells, my MC3000 is not powering up any longer. I thought I was the PSU, so I purchased another power supply which is switchable between 11-22 volts.
> I set it to 15V which is specified to 5amps on this PSU.
> I plugged it into the MC3000, and the same thing its not powering up. I can see the MC3000 display backlight flicker a bit, but that's it, no other sign of life.
> Is my MC3000 charger buggered? I am disappointed it failed so easily, I've only charged in it about a dozen times.
> 
> My unit has 1 fan. Its the HW 1.40+ version.
> Can it be fixed?
> 
> thanks
> 
> Jabz




So no one has had this issue? My charger is still faulty as per above.
i need to buy a new one but I don’t want to buy a MC3000 again if they go faulty so easily. I have hardly used mine.
Any suggestions on how to fix?

if not then
Who is selling the latest version with good warranty?


thanks


----------



## Dascombe

jabz said:


> So no one has had this issue? My charger is still faulty as per above.
> i need to buy a new one but I don’t want to buy a MC3000 again if they go faulty so easily. I have hardly used mine.
> Any suggestions on how to fix?
> 
> if not then
> Who is selling the latest version with good warranty?
> 
> 
> thanks



It certainly sounds as though your charger is toast. Have you tried using the APP to rule out the possibility it's not just the LCD that's faulty?

As for purchasing a new one, that depends on the types of cells you have and how much you value the advanced features. Personally, if I had to do it again, I'd probably go with the Opus BT-C3100. The smartphone interface on the MC3000 is nice but that's mostly just because the LCD UI and click-y buttons to navigate around are awful. The PC software is pretty terrible and honestly, aside from trying it for giggles, I can't imagine using it with any regularity.

If you do intend to buy a new one, I can wholeheartedly recommend NKON Got mine form them, it's the latest version and was delivered to me in Canada in a week, so they don't drag their feet shipping like the direct from China sellers do.


----------



## -Archie-

Dascombe said:


> The smartphone interface on the MC3000 is nice but that's mostly just because the LCD UI and click-y buttons to navigate around are awful. The PC software is pretty terrible and honestly, aside from trying it for giggles, I can't imagine using it with any regularity.



SkyRC software is essentially unusable indeed - but there's DataExplorer: that's what I use for cell analyze & sorting.


----------



## Dascombe

-Archie- said:


> SkyRC software is essentially unusable indeed - but there's DataExplorer: that's what I use for cell analyze & sorting.



I have DataExporer installed on one of my PCs and while it's certainly much better than SkyRC's PC software, it's still not something I've used more than once or twice out of curiosity.


----------



## fneuf

Hello everybody,

Have been warned by the MC3000 app to upgrade the firmware of my charger.

Doing so I realized on SkyRC website that our CandlePowered' CheatSheets are available for download there... apart from the french translation I humbly provided, based on the tremendous work from WWJD (if anyone has news from him I'm interested) and help from kreisl. Can one of our fellow member with direct access to SkyRC staff, please send the info to the SkyRC team to make this doc more useful to the whole community?


----------



## id30209

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I just used their website contact form to warn them about iregularities.
Try that option.


----------



## fneuf

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Done!


----------



## Vap3on

.......................


----------



## Oiyuk Ti

Today I received email from SKYRC with response to my inquiry regarding changes made in recent firmware update. They confirm in response recent update to address only app compatibility issues.


----------



## nqhzdkdf

*Re: Low voltage LiIon cells*



philco782 said:


> Has anyone solved the issue of the MC3000 refusing to charge a LiIon cell whose voltage has dropped too low? I have some LED torches that don't have any protection for LiIon batteries (such as a couple Anker lights, which claim to say they support operation of 18650 batteries), and if I use them too long after they start dropping in brightness, the battery may get a little over discharged.



A friend of mine have the same issue. He have the MC3000 and a 1S 5P-18650 spotweldet pack at 1Volt he uses for outdoor activities. He cant register himself here in the forum to ask but that is a different issue.

He already tried pressing and holding the slot-number button. The "check voltage" error just reappear and nothing changes. He cant use the MC3000 for his typical usecase. Yes, he know that dropping the voltage that low is bad for the batteries. But if you are outside and dont have any other power sources and really need energy, then you also take also the very last bit out of the batteries.

How to rechange them with the mc3000? He have spend 100Dollar for the charger. The solution cant be to use a 0-1$ trash-powersupply from 20 year old device with unregulated 3V and for example 300mA and connect it to the battery for half an hour. He just want to connect the MC3000 and charge the battery to the full to reuse it again and not to have to deal with such things like "precharging with something different".


----------



## nqhzdkdf

I wrote to the support. I get fast but fully useless answers. I told them in the first e-mail, that i have read in the internet, that pressing and holding the button-number of the slot could help. I also wrote them, that i tried it many times and this never changed anything.

Their answer:



> Hello Friend,
> 
> Try with more times and how can you measure your battery voltage?
> 
> Thank you
> Best Regards
> Phoebe Sun




About this topic i answered them:


> I have hold for a long time the button of the MC3000. I also tried
> holding the button many times. I always get repeatedly the "check
> voltage" error.




They really answered me(the only thing in their e-mail):


> try with more times, dear friend.



I wrote to them:


> I have tried today about 15 times. It does not work!




This cant be true. You cant buy one of the most expensive chargers and then the only thing that should work, charging batteries, is not working because the batteries are "too empty". This sounds like a joke.


----------



## skid00skid00

nqhzdkdf said:


> This cant be true. You cant buy one of the most expensive chargers and then the only thing that should work, charging batteries, is not working because the batteries are "too empty". This sounds like a joke.



Only a moronic company would open itself up to being sued for allowing over-discharged batteries to be charged and then blowing up in the users face, or even better-burning down an entire apartment complex.

Your made-up scenario for attempting to charge damaged cells would be laughed out of court.


----------



## nqhzdkdf

"made up" and "damaged" is not true. The cells are working completely fine. They also charged up with the old and now broken (water got inside) cheap charger without any issues. It was some cheap 10$ charger and that worked perfectly fine.
I have never ever seen anyones "blown up face" because he charged just his really empty batteries. This is not some tesla hundreds of volts 18650-circuit. This is a 3,7Volt battery. 
Have you ever tried to "blow up" a really (measured capacity 50mAh instead of 2500) worn down 18650 cell? Try it. Its not that easy and its really boring. Its just getting warm and nothing else. Flat cells are much more easy to blow up.

How can this MC3000 charger now be used to charge up rellay empty 18650 cells? I still cant believe that cells that are empty cant be charged up with this charger.


----------



## Oiyuk Ti

1. Is there any chance to store program modification just to slot just for latter's next activity without storing modification to program's non-volatile memory ?
Usage: I am trying to cycle cell/-s using one program however certain number of charge rates. For myself it has no value to store this modification either to source program number nor to a different one. In few days or weeks I won't remember program differences if these are in small nuances.
2. Is it possible to have table of factory settings for all programs?
3. According to user manual [1,14] page 18, SPV "when selecting a program number for a ready slot, depressing its SNB saves the current selection, then makes transition to TOV and starts that slot". What if user is selecting some different program position than program number then they is depressing slot's SNB? Does the phrase "program number" means top or bottom row? Former question also for case if additionally to some program setting different than program number user modified bottom row (save to)?


----------



## sbj

So I often use different settings.
For this I have e.g. keep the first four memory spaces free, which I then reprogram constantly.
So I would recommend it to you too.


----------



## Oiyuk Ti

Me tries to see and understand all available operations for storing modifications to program number, slot/-s number, modifying program number for slot/-s and starting program and get a handy overview. Hardy to get it on one single manual read session. I am not quite comfortable with elaborations made in manual - rough portion of own work needs to be done to get understanding.
In general these are actually two independent operations: saving modifications and starting program although at few points there seem to exist shortcuts to conduct these two in one step. Additionally saving modifications has two dimensions: saving to memory, saving to number of slots.

It feels like manuals chapter "SPV - The controls in SPV are as follows" was complete not until considering also descriptions in "SPV - Save To". I mean former one to be a generic description of possible operations which possibly feature certain level of parameterization (chapter does not dig into parameterization details) - e.g. bullet 3 - while the latter one be presenting parameterization details. For me it is unclear which SPV controls else does the Save To setting apply to (e.g. bullet second from end too?).


----------



## sbj

Have you tried the "CHEAT SHEET" yet?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?428121


----------



## sbj

Oiyuk Ti said:


> Me tries to see and understand all available operations for storing modifications to program number, slot/-s number, modifying program number for slot/-s and starting program and get a handy overview.....?).


 I have now played around with changes to the program again and looked when the changed memory will be permanently overwritten and when not.
(FW: 1.13)

The changed program is not overwritten if:
1. The program is left at the end after the changes by pressing the "Stop button" twice. The changes will be lost. - That's logical.
2. The program is copied to another memory number after the changes with "Save to [new memory number]. The settings are copied to the new memory number. - Also logical

In all other cases, regardless of whether you just hold the SNB button for a long time to start, or complete these changes with "Save to:" Ready or All Slots, the edited memory is permanently overwritten. - Not necessarily logical.

I would like the changed memory not to be overwritten if:
1. Hold down the SNB button (to start the current slot with the changed values).
2. With "Save to All Slots" wants to use these temporary settings in all inactive slots.

This would help to avoid having to overwrite a memory completely every time due to small changes.

Another option would also be e.g. "Save Temp. to Slot", "Save Temp. to All Slots".


----------



## Nokeshas

Hello, 
I have just received my Skyrc MC3000 from Banggood.
There is one problem. Some strange sound. When fans spinning faster it disappears.
I have done video of it:
https://youtu.be/4R-aGrCb_DQ
Thanks


----------



## simply123

*Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

Hello everyone,

just spent an hour searching internet but couldn't find a decent explanation of different parameters for the charger... First of all, would be very greatful if someone points in in the proper direction.

Specificaly trying to understand what is the difference between "[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]Disc. Cut-Off current(A)" and "Discharge Cut Current" in the Storage program ? I see those on iOS app v1.5.2, the firmware v1.15
[/FONT]


----------



## hc900

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*



simply123 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> just spent an hour searching internet but couldn't find a decent explanation of different parameters for the charger... First of all, would be very greatful if someone points in in the proper direction.
> 
> Specificaly trying to understand what is the difference between "Disc. Cut-Off current(A)" and "Discharge Cut Current" in the Storage program ? I see those on iOS app v1.5.2, the firmware v1.15


Essentially you can discharge at the nominal value as 500mA.
When the current fall a bit down to 500mA the charger stop the discharge function.
This is standard function, but in the battery remain a bit of energy, due poor battery quality or high internal resistance values,.


Now you can select the discharge value to 500mA and set the Discharge Cut Current at only 50mA for a deep battery discharge.
Note: the voltage of the battery remain over the Voltage Cut value, this to avoid battery damages, but the discharge current gradually fall down from 500mA to 50mA.


----------



## simply123

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*



hc900 said:


> Now you can select the discharge value to 500mA and set the Discharge Cut Current at only 50mA for a deep battery discharge.
> Note: the voltage of the battery remain over the Voltage Cut value, this to avoid battery damages, but the discharge current gradually fall down from 500mA to 50mA.


Thank you for the reply - I understand your logic here, but not sure if it's correct. I'm talking about "Storage" mode - it does NOT involve deep discharge at all (unless I don't understand even more than think), so when the charger reaches the "Target cut-off voltage" it supposes to stop (dis)charging (whatever it was doing) completely. Or I'm wrong ?


----------



## fmc1

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

Setting the mode to storage is somewhat unique compared to other modes like charge, discharge or cycle because the Cut Volt setting is ignored and set to off by default. Target Volt is the important setting for a storage program. Normally Target Volt is the limit for charge and Cut Volt is the limit for discharge.


For example if your Target Volt is set to 3.80V and the battery you insert has less than 3.80V resting it will charge that battery to 3.80V at whatever current you have C. Current set for. Then when the battery has 3.80V it will reduce the current holding 3.80V until it reaches whatever you have your Termination current set for. The default is zero and I recommend raising that to at least .03 - .05 A or else you could be waiting for hours for the battery to settle down depending on it’s condition.


If you use that same program for a battery that has more than 3.80V resting it will discharge the battery at whatever you have D. Current set for. Then when the battery reaches 3.80V it will reduce the discharge current holding 3.80V until it reaches whatever you have D. Reduce set for. Also this default is zero and I recommend raising it to .03 - .05A for the same reason. Older tired batteries will just take forever to settle in at exactly 3.80V.


Frank


----------



## simply123

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

Frank, thank you for the explanation, but I'm more-less familiar how does Storage work in general. Unfortunately it doesn't explain my original question - what is the purpose (and the difference between) "Disc. Cut-Off current(A)" and "Discharge Cut Current" parameters ?

There is a picture of the "standard" Storage program (without any changes):








​


----------



## sbj

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

I have to admit, I've never used the app and haven't installed it.

I suspect an incorrect name was used in the app! 

One of the two should be called "Termination" or "Termination current". According to the preset value probably the "Disc.Cut-off current (A)" with 0.10A?
In the case of charging, this value represents the cutoff charging current (Termination).

The best way to clarify is to simply try it out by setting this value to the same level as the charging current and observing whether the charger switches off immediately when the final charge voltage is reached [FONT=&quot]without reducing the charging current before.[/FONT]


----------



## simply123

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*



sbj said:


> I suspect an incorrect name was used in the app!
> 
> One of the two should be called "Termination" or "Termination current". According to the preset value probably the "Disc.Cut-off current (A)" with 0.10A?
> In the case of charging, this value represents the cutoff charging current (Termination).


Even if so, what is the possible purpose of the another parameter ? In my opinion it should be only two "Current" parameters total - "Charge current" and "Termination current", why do they even need the third one ???


----------



## sbj

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

You mean the setting "Discharge Cut Current" or "Discharge Reduce" in the normal discharging program?

In principle when discharging, this is the same as the Termination setting when charging. The MC3000 can discharge up to 2A. If you e.g. Setting 3.0V as the final discharge voltage and discharge with 2A down to this threshold and then switching it off immediately, the open circuit voltage will then recover very clearly in the direction of 3.2 or 3.3V. It would be difficult to hit a certain open circuit voltage straight away. With "Discharge Reduce" set to a low value, this is not a problem.

Another example of a fast capacity test.
The capacity specifications of the battery manufacturers are based on a discharge current of 0.2C. This means that the discharging process alone takes about 5 hours. You can shorten this if you e.g. discharge with 1C and only at the end of the discharge with "Discharge Reduce" the discharge current reduced to 0.2C.


----------



## simply123

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*



sbj said:


> You mean the setting "Discharge Cut Current" or "Discharge Reduce" in the normal discharging program?


Assuming you are talking to me - no, my question was only about the Storage program and only about those two parameters (Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current)


----------



## sbj

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

I explained what I think "Disc.Cut-off current (A)" means here:


sbj said:


> ..
> I suspect an incorrect name was used in the app!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the two should be called "Termination" or "Termination current". According to the preset value probably the "Disc.Cut-off current (A)" with 0.10A?
> In the case of charging, this value represents the cutoff charging current (Termination)....


 
It has nothing to do with discharge! This is the value of the final charge current when charging to storage voltage.


----------



## sbj

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

I think you still haven't understood how the storage program works?
The purpose of the storage program is to bring a battery to the programmed storage voltage.

1st case:
The actual voltage of the battery is higher than the storage voltage. Then the charger must discharge the battery (discharge current, discharge cutcurrent (= discharge reduce)) involved.
A discharge program is running.

2nd case:
The actual voltage of the battery is lower than the storage voltage. Then the charger must charge the battery (Charge current (A),* Disc. Cut-off current (A) (= Termination)* involved .
A charge program is running.


----------



## simply123

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*



sbj said:


> I think you still haven't understood how the storage program works?​



Actually, I have designed and made a couple of chargers with a Storage mode for my own needs, so have some idea...


​


sbj said:


> *Disc. Cut-off current (A) (= Termination)*


OK, possibly I see the source of my confusion... What does "Disc." mean here ? I assumed "Discharge" and it threw me off. If it's "Disconnect" (or "Discontinue" etc) everything suddenly makes sense...


----------



## sbj

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

In my opinion, just a stupid misnomer.
They should name this "Termination" exactly as in the MC3000 menu.

That should be on the suggested list for improvements for the next App version. 

But please try it with the app beforehand, not that I might be wrong with my guess.


----------



## Oiyuk Ti

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

Metal stripe got apart recently in my MC3000 sample, later one less than 1 year old. Looks like it was temp sensor strip. Few days before myself transported charger to other household at distance of appx 300 miles. However charger was transported in brand original box with no other 3rd party items in box. I realized the strip is located loosely in on slot on trying to start a charge program yesterday. I was lucky to place it back to its mount after tithing up one of its end - hook formed end. It seems to keep firmly in its mounts now. It looks like manufacturer placed certain amount of thermal grease at the point where some tiny component looks through small opening. Not sure if it is grease to improve thermal conductivity. Me didn't add new grease before placing metal stripe into its mounts, which might be not good.


----------



## Mp0w3r

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

Has the MC3000 been discontinued ?


----------



## fmc1

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*

Why makes you think it’s discontinued?


It still shows up on their company web site. I just checked 3 US vendors and they all show stock. I have firsthand experience with all three of these vendors and they all ship next day. There is one very popular European vendor that shows availability in 3 days. Seems to me if you want one you can buy one and probably have it buy the end of the week depending on where you live.


A few weeks from now or even sooner this info might be stale but today this is what I saw.


Frank


----------



## Mp0w3r

*Re: Disc. Cut-Off current(A) vs Discharge Cut Current*



fmc1 said:


> Why makes you think it’s discontinued?
> 
> 
> It still shows up on their company web site. I just checked 3 US vendors and they all show stock. I have firsthand experience with all three of these vendors and they all ship next day. There is one very popular European vendor that shows availability in 3 days. Seems to me if you want one you can buy one and probably have it buy the end of the week depending on where you live.
> 
> 
> A few weeks from now or even sooner this info might be stale but today this is what I saw.
> 
> 
> Frank



Gearbest and Hobbyking have it as discontinued


----------



## nqhzdkdf

nqhzdkdf said:


> "made up" and "damaged" is not true. The cells are working completely fine. They also charged up with the old and now broken (water got inside) cheap charger without any issues. It was some cheap 10$ charger and that worked perfectly fine.
> I have never ever seen anyones "blown up face" because he charged just his really empty batteries. This is not some tesla hundreds of volts 18650-circuit. This is a 3,7Volt battery.
> Have you ever tried to "blow up" a really (measured capacity 50mAh instead of 2500) worn down 18650 cell? Try it. Its not that easy and its really boring. Its just getting warm and nothing else. Flat cells are much more easy to blow up.
> 
> How can this MC3000 charger now be used to charge up rellay empty 18650 cells? I still cant believe that cells that are empty cant be charged up with this charger.



The manufacturer told me after i asked him if the warranty should be used to fix the issue that really empty li-ion cells cant be charged and there was no warning anywhere on the MC-3000-package that i should use the wrong chemistry to charge up a bit. After many weeks of trying around i find out a quite working solution.

Howto charge li-ion cells with SkyRC MC3000 (Firmware Version 1.15) that are below 1.81Volt(this is the voltage that the MC3000 in even advanced mode simply don't allow you to charge the li-ion cells):
Program to be set up:
Batt type: NiZn
Mode: Charge
Capacity: Off
C.Current: 0.10A (the safe charging current for li-ion decided by skyrc for batteries below 3V is 0.15. I dropped this value to 0.10A for this mode, because the batteries goes up fast to the TARGET VOLT and should also stay there.
[unimportant settings ...]
TARGET VOLT: 1.95V (this is important to set, its the max possible value in the NiZn-mode)
TERMINATION: Zero (or 0.01A if you want to have a beeping sound and a stop) - this is important to set
RESTART VOLT: 1.88V (optional but does not hurt if you have setup 0.01A Termination)
[unimportant settings ...]

When used it looks like this:
Take the li-Ion battery and put it into the MC3000. If the voltage is below 1.81V, choose this NiZn-Mode you have set up and for practicality i leave TERMINATION: Zero. Then remember that after few minutes(but it can also be few hours, does not matter with TERMINATION: Zero) you have to switch the modes. The MC3000 is holding the cell-voltage at 1.95V from whatever lower voltage it was before. Then stop the NiZn-Mode and switch immediately to your normal li-ion charging mode and start to charge up from the charged up 1.95V to whatever is been set in your li-ion charging mode.

I still ask SkyRC to add the option to remove this user-blocking-feature for li-ion below 1.81V. Yes, i can understand that there could be a user that drops a nimh-cell into the charger and forget to switch the mode from li-ion to nimh, the nimh-cell would then get burning hot, could leak and so on. But the charger is in advanced mode. Not in dummy mode. Please leave the advanced users do their own thing and run their own risks. Yes, there should be also a option-switch in the settings to enable/disable this 1.81V-blocking thing so that advanced mode users can decide if they want this blocking to be there or not. But please leave the freedom to the people to decide on their own if they want something blocked or not.


----------



## mauiblue

I tried updating the firmware on my MC3000 and the process was taking so long, I screwed up and pulled the USB cable during the process. Now the unit is not recognized by my computer and I can't start the update process. So I think I bricked the unit. Where can I send the unit to be repaired? Thanks in advance.


----------



## fmc1

mauiblue said:


> I tried updating the firmware on my MC3000 and the process was taking so long, I screwed up and pulled the USB cable during the process. Now the unit is not recognized by my computer and I can't start the update process. So I think I bricked the unit. Where can I send the unit to be repaired? Thanks in advance.




Take a look at post #3464

Frank


----------



## mauiblue

fmc1 said:


> Take a look at post #3464
> 
> Frank


Thanks. I'll look into it and hope I'll have better sense in resolving this issue. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


----------



## mauiblue

fmc1 said:


> Take a look at post #3464
> 
> Frank




Thanks, Frank. Got my MC3000 squared away and running. I appreciate your consideration in this matter. All the best.


----------



## LiteTheWay

Would it not be a lot easier to just use a (dumb) charger to charge the battery up to (say) 2.00V so that the MC3000 will 'recognize' it?






nqhzdkdf said:


> The manufacturer told me after i asked him if the warranty should be used to fix the issue that really empty li-ion cells cant be charged and there was no warning anywhere on the MC-3000-package that i should use the wrong chemistry to charge up a bit. After many weeks of trying around i find out a quite working solution.
> 
> Howto charge li-ion cells with SkyRC MC3000 (Firmware Version 1.15) that are below 1.81Volt(this is the voltage that the MC3000 in even advanced mode simply don't allow you to charge the li-ion cells):
> Program to be set up:
> Batt type: NiZn
> Mode: Charge
> Capacity: Off
> C.Current: 0.10A (the safe charging current for li-ion decided by skyrc for batteries below 3V is 0.15. I dropped this value to 0.10A for this mode, because the batteries goes up fast to the TARGET VOLT and should also stay there.
> [unimportant settings ...]
> TARGET VOLT: 1.95V (this is important to set, its the max possible value in the NiZn-mode)
> TERMINATION: Zero (or 0.01A if you want to have a beeping sound and a stop) - this is important to set
> RESTART VOLT: 1.88V (optional but does not hurt if you have setup 0.01A Termination)
> [unimportant settings ...]
> 
> When used it looks like this:
> Take the li-Ion battery and put it into the MC3000. If the voltage is below 1.81V, choose this NiZn-Mode you have set up and for practicality i leave TERMINATION: Zero. Then remember that after few minutes(but it can also be few hours, does not matter with TERMINATION: Zero) you have to switch the modes. The MC3000 is holding the cell-voltage at 1.95V from whatever lower voltage it was before. Then stop the NiZn-Mode and switch immediately to your normal li-ion charging mode and start to charge up from the charged up 1.95V to whatever is been set in your li-ion charging mode.
> 
> I still ask SkyRC to add the option to remove this user-blocking-feature for li-ion below 1.81V. Yes, i can understand that there could be a user that drops a nimh-cell into the charger and forget to switch the mode from li-ion to nimh, the nimh-cell would then get burning hot, could leak and so on. But the charger is in advanced mode. Not in dummy mode. Please leave the advanced users do their own thing and run their own risks. Yes, there should be also a option-switch in the settings to enable/disable this 1.81V-blocking thing so that advanced mode users can decide if they want this blocking to be there or not. But please leave the freedom to the people to decide on their own if they want something blocked or not.


----------



## nqhzdkdf

*7histology*, there have not been payed over 100$ for the advertised in the internet/forum "best" li-ion charger that exists and then not being able to charge really empty cells and have to buy an second one. I wrote that the broken charger was a 10$ one. If a new 10$ charger would been bought, then there wont be a need for a second charger. There was no warning on the mc3000-package like for example "warning, you need to buy an additional charger to charge up really empty cells". Or a warning like "MC3000 - the charger that does not work with some cells advertised on the package as supported".


----------



## skid00skid00

nqhzdkdf said:


> *7histology*, there have not been payed over 100$ for the advertised in the internet/forum "best" li-ion charger that exists and then not being able to charge really empty cells and have to buy an second one. I wrote that the broken charger was a 10$ one. If a new 10$ charger would been bought, then there wont be a need for a second charger. There was no warning on the mc3000-package like for example "warning, you need to buy an additional charger to charge up really empty cells". Or a warning like "MC3000 - the charger that does not work with some cells advertised on the package as supported".



Stop writing this nonsense! Do you work for a competitor?

To those readers out there who are new to LiIon chemistry, charging cells that have been depleted this far is DANGEROUS. Don't do it. And don't be infected with stupid nonsense. Just don't.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

skid00skid00 said:


> Stop writing this nonsense! Do you work for a competitor?
> 
> To those readers out there who are new to LiIon chemistry, charging cells that have been depleted this far is DANGEROUS. Don't do it. And don't be infected with stupid nonsense. Just don't.



It depends on the cell. For example, the spec sheet for the Samsung 30Q states that they can be recharged from as low as 1.0v. It just has to be done slowly until they reach 3.0v, then charge normally. It's probably safer to do a slow charge from the MC3000, than an unknown charge rate on a cheap charger.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend charging from that low, but in theory I suppose it's possible.

Anyway, it's not inherently dangerous, as long as you follow the manufacturer's guidelines. Well, I suppose anything to do with lithium-ion is somewhat dangerous, since they are not intended to be used outside of sealed devices with BMS. From that perspective, the manufacturer says don't use them in flashlights at all, or charge them with any external charger, or even buy them.

Whatever you do, just be smart about it.


----------



## skid00skid00

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> It depends on the cell. For example, the spec sheet for the Samsung 30Q states that they can be recharged from as low as 1.0v. It just has to be done slowly until they reach 3.0v, then charge normally. It's probably safer to do a slow charge from the MC3000, than an unknown charge rate on a cheap charger.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't recommend charging from that low, but in theory I suppose it's possible.
> 
> Anyway, it's not inherently dangerous, as long as you follow the manufacturer's guidelines. Well, I suppose anything to do with lithium-ion is somewhat dangerous, since they are not intended to be used outside of sealed devices with BMS. From that perspective, the manufacturer says don't use them in flashlights at all, or charge them with any external charger, or even buy them.
> 
> Whatever you do, just be smart about it.




Good information, thanks for the clarification.


----------



## tjh

My MC3000 (bless its soul, it was one of the first, has the fan mod etc) has started making a "clicking" noise, like it's sparking somewhere, when it's getting towards the end of charging 4 AA Eneloops.
It'll be fine, but when the voltage on the 4 batteries starts getting up to 1.55 1.56 it'll start going "click" (wait 3-4 seconds) "click" etc.
Soon as one of the batteries finishes, the clicking stops.

Anyone have any suggestions? Time to buy a new one?


----------



## fmc1

tjh said:


> My MC3000 (bless its soul, it was one of the first, has the fan mod etc) has started making a "clicking" noise, like it's sparking somewhere, when it's getting towards the end of charging 4 AA Eneloops.
> It'll be fine, but when the voltage on the 4 batteries starts getting up to 1.55 1.56 it'll start going "click" (wait 3-4 seconds) "click" etc.
> Soon as one of the batteries finishes, the clicking stops.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions? Time to buy a new one?




Sorry if I ask the obvious questions first. Does the clicking problem follow a one particular slot, meaning when slot 1 finishes the clicking goes away but when slot 4 finishes it still clicks? The click for sure is coming from the charger and not the power supply? Have you tried charging 4 lithium ions, same thing with a greater power load? Of course you can open it up and look for anything obvious visually.


My generation 1 MC3000 is still hanging in there after breaking a spring post and swapping the case. I gave it to my son so it’s on very lite duty now. My second charger, generation 2 post 6/2016 build died about a year ago and ironically my third charger also a generation 2 is still fine and has a numerically lower serial number than the first gen 2. My first early generation 3 with raised positive contacts and 2 fans that came with firmware v1.13 has a dead micro USB port but everything else is fine. My other early generation 3 is also fine. I use these things a lot almost daily, if or when I find something better I’ll buy it but for now I think it’s the best out there.


If it’s a tool that you rely on having a spare is just a smart choice IMHO. I have seen times where I could not find a vendor anywhere in the world that had stock but right now that is not the case so I think this is a good time to buy a new one based on availability. I know it is frowned upon to mention vendors on this board but Nkon, 18650 battery store, Progressive RC and RC Juice all show stock. I have had only positive experiences with all 4 of them.


Frank


----------



## arturnet

tjh said:


> My MC3000 (bless its soul, it was one of the first, has the fan mod etc) has started making a "clicking" noise, like it's sparking somewhere, when it's getting towards the end of charging 4 AA Eneloops.



Hi,

"Clicking" noise comes from a battery, not device. It is a gas coming out through safety valve.
Had this on brand newly bought MC3000 and when charging not used for several years Ni-Mh AAA. I have spotted "clicking" battery and put it to another charger. Was still "clicking" in it.

:wave:


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hey all

Is anyone having issue with the app? It failed to connect to charger. I think the bluetooth on the charger froze as the blue led won't turn off.


----------



## Slayer1

nqhzdkdf said:


> The manufacturer told me after i asked him if the warranty should be used to fix the issue that really empty li-ion cells cant be charged and there was no warning anywhere on the MC-3000-package that i should use the wrong chemistry to charge up a bit. After many weeks of trying around i find out a quite working solution.
> 
> Howto charge li-ion cells with SkyRC MC3000 (Firmware Version 1.15) that are below 1.81Volt(this is the voltage that the MC3000 in even advanced mode simply don't allow you to charge the li-ion cells):
> Program to be set up:
> Batt type: NiZn
> Mode: Charge
> Capacity: Off
> C.Current: 0.10A (the safe charging current for li-ion decided by skyrc for batteries below 3V is 0.15. I dropped this value to 0.10A for this mode, because the batteries goes up fast to the TARGET VOLT and should also stay there.
> [unimportant settings ...]
> TARGET VOLT: 1.95V (this is important to set, its the max possible value in the NiZn-mode)
> TERMINATION: Zero (or 0.01A if you want to have a beeping sound and a stop) - this is important to set
> RESTART VOLT: 1.88V (optional but does not hurt if you have setup 0.01A Termination)
> [unimportant settings ...]
> 
> When used it looks like this:
> Take the li-Ion battery and put it into the MC3000. If the voltage is below 1.81V, choose this NiZn-Mode you have set up and for practicality i leave TERMINATION: Zero. Then remember that after few minutes(but it can also be few hours, does not matter with TERMINATION: Zero) you have to switch the modes. The MC3000 is holding the cell-voltage at 1.95V from whatever lower voltage it was before. Then stop the NiZn-Mode and switch immediately to your normal li-ion charging mode and start to charge up from the charged up 1.95V to whatever is been set in your li-ion charging mode.
> 
> I still ask SkyRC to add the option to remove this user-blocking-feature for li-ion below 1.81V. Yes, i can understand that there could be a user that drops a nimh-cell into the charger and forget to switch the mode from li-ion to nimh, the nimh-cell would then get burning hot, could leak and so on. But the charger is in advanced mode. Not in dummy mode. Please leave the advanced users do their own thing and run their own risks. Yes, there should be also a option-switch in the settings to enable/disable this 1.81V-blocking thing so that advanced mode users can decide if they want this blocking to be there or not. But please leave the freedom to the people to decide on their own if they want something blocked or not.



This is cool. Was trying to figure out why my Aspire 1100mah Li-ion batteries was showing as NIMH when the volt is low at 1.56/1.60.


----------



## chillinn

Li-ion is many chems. I think LFE can do this, IMR, perhaps INR... depends how long the cell was below 2.5V with latter 2, I believe... and do it with extreme caution regardless. But doing this with unprotected ICR is asking for serious trouble, injury, and a burned out pit where your home used to be. Pretty irresponsible to vaguely use the ambiguous "Li-ion," and post as some solution. If your unprotected ICR drop below 2.5V, _do not attempt recharging_. Recycle bin them.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight

chillinn said:


> Li-ion is many chems. I think LFE can do this, IMR, perhaps INR... depends how long the cell was below 2.5V with latter 2, I believe... and do it with extreme caution regardless. But doing this with unprotected ICR is asking for serious trouble, injury, and a burned out pit where your home used to be. Pretty irresponsible to vaguely use the ambiguous "Li-ion," and post as some solution. If your unprotected ICR drop below 2.5V, _do not attempt recharging_. Recycle bin them.



Again, that depends on the cell. For example, the spec sheet for Samsung 30Q, states the "do not charge" threshold as 1.0v. Granted, it's giving specs assuming they're used in a BMS. But if you want to be totally safe, do not use lithium-ion cells at all; they're not designed or sold for use outside of a BMS.


----------



## chillinn

I actually came to ask a question about SkyRC MC3000, and got sidetracked with finger wagging.

Can one set up a charging profile such that it sits doing nothing for a set period, then charges for certain voltages of, say, an NiMH, it applies a different charge voltage during the charge cycle.

e.g. Does MC3000 allow me to create a charge profile that charges the NiMH I want in there for this profile at 0mA for an hour, then idk let's say 150mA until the cell voltage reads 1.40V, then charge at 375mA until the cell voltage reads 1.49V, then charge at 1A until termination?

Because I kind of want to do something like that for different chems, to baby a cell, then as voltage gets closer to expected termination voltage, pump the charge voltage a couple times until I know the charge will terminate properly.

And I expect I am the only one.


----------



## Dascombe

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



MarioJP said:


> Hey all
> 
> Is anyone having issue with the app? It failed to connect to charger. I think the bluetooth on the charger froze as the blue led won't turn off.



Yes, happens all the time. The app is extremely buggy.


----------



## Dan O.

I am now an owner of a new MC3000 and of course have lots of questions. 

I’ve read through about the first third of this thread up to where the first production units were shipped and the last several pages. There is lots of great information here but nearly impossible to access. My biggest question, which would answer many other questions, is: Where is the wiki?


----------



## chillinn

Dan O. said:


> Where is the wiki?



Never seen a wiki like this where it seems images of the user manual are just... displayed there, but technically it is a wiki:

SKYRC Technology MC3000 Universal Battery Charger Analyzer User Manual


----------



## Dan O.

*Technical wiki*

That is not at all what I envision for a reference wiki. 

The wiki I want to see would encapsulate all of the information available in this thread but organized to quickly locate relevant bits. 


Currently I want to know about firmware updates. I believe I have the latest but when I try to access settings from my iPad I just get a prompt that says I need to download and install the latest firmware. Since the charger came with 1.15 and the same is what is available for download I chalk this up to The “quality” of the app.

Next, I’ll need to build programs for rejuvenating and testing cells. There should be a set of programs available as a starting point without having to go through the steep learning curve to build the first one from scratch.


----------



## chillinn

*Re: Technical wiki*



Dan O. said:


> That is not at all what I envision for a reference wiki.



Sorry, that was terrible. Site must scrape manuals, then script format them, but all that is available is the images of the manual pages. I did not look deeply into it, bad cuff assumption that it was official. 

wikicode is pretty easy to work with, not unlike bbcode. Just sayin, if you want it done right... and TIA


----------



## fmc1

*Re: Technical wiki*



Dan O. said:


> That is not at all what I envision for a reference wiki.
> 
> The wiki I want to see would encapsulate all of the information available in this thread but organized to quickly locate relevant bits.
> 
> 
> Currently I want to know about firmware updates. I believe I have the latest but when I try to access settings from my iPad I just get a prompt that says I need to download and install the latest firmware. Since the charger came with 1.15 and the same is what is available for download I chalk this up to The “quality” of the app.
> 
> Next, I’ll need to build programs for rejuvenating and testing cells. There should be a set of programs available as a starting point without having to go through the steep learning curve to build the first one from scratch.



After you enter the chemistry and capacity of the battery you want to test. The default settings for everything else are a very good starting point. In some cases it’s almost spot on for what I want. For example Eneloop Std. AA, I just lowered the cut volt to .9V and set D. Reduce to -.10A. Everything else is default. I’m talking about key panel defaults the phone app defaults may be different, I don’t know because I never used the phone apps.

Frank


----------



## MarioJP

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Question.

Is there a way to pause the program without ending. I don't know but i can see a scenario where pausing can come in handy, especially when slow charging but have to step out for a bit but don't feel comfortable leaving unattended.

I suppose the play button can be used for pausing while in TOV.

Thanks lol.


----------



## Dan O.

*Re: Technical wiki*



chillinn said:


> Sorry, that was terrible.



I understood.  

The wiki platform is really ideal for crowdsourcing technical data and I am surprised that such a site doesn’t already exist. The problem might be that everybody is into monetizing everything and it is ruining the Internet in my opinion. If I do this I’ll want it to eventually be owned by a not-for-profit foundation to keep everybody’s contributions safe from being paywalled.


----------



## gsmit1

Does anybody know why the USB charging port on this charger may not be working properly? Aside from the possibly obvious that it's broke. 

My MC3000 is brand new. 3 days old. I've tried 2 different cables and when I plug my Galaxy S10 in for charging, the phone tells to check the connection like it's dirty or something. It shows that it's charging at like half an amp, but the battery voltage is slowly dropping like it's not actually plugged into a charger. 

This cable works fine in other charging sources. This happens with no batteries being charged at the time btw.

Any insight would be fabulous. 
Thanks.


----------



## MarioJP

gsmit1 said:


> Does anybody know why the USB charging port on this charger may not be working properly? Aside from the possibly obvious that it's broke.
> 
> My MC3000 is brand new. 3 days old. I've tried 2 different cables and when I plug my Galaxy S10 in for charging, the phone tells to check the connection like it's dirty or something. It shows that it's charging at like half an amp, but the battery voltage is slowly dropping like it's not actually plugged into a charger.
> 
> This cable works fine in other charging sources. This happens with no batteries being charged at the time btw.
> 
> Any insight would be fabulous.
> Thanks.


That is because the usb port on the charger is a dumb usb port. What this means is that any smart mobile device can't determine the power source that it is plugged into, so your device defaults to usb mode as precaution where it would charge dead slow

You would need to plug a usb adapter on the charger's usb port to trick your mobile device that it is plugged to a AC usb charger.

This is one thing that skyrc did not have in mind. It would probably cost extra to add smart circuitry like QC, or AC mode. Other than that, the skyrc usb port is more than enough to charge a modern mobile device since it can deliver 2.1A. Just doesn't have the smarts to initiate the fast charge protocol that your mobile device is waiting for like "Hey i am capable delivering more than 500mA of current."

It is a safety feature so your phone doesn't draw more than what the source can deliver.


----------



## mactavish

Just received the SkyRC MC3000 (came with FW 1.14, I updated to latest 1.15, HW V.2.2)


QUESTION: “To LUBE or not to LUBE”


I have browsed this thread but not read every post. I’ve read various opinions on the rough sliding “sliders” in the slots. With the beefy springs, it’s not easy and rough feeling using mine. 


I’ve read that the original units had grease on the slider rails, and they stopped using any some time ago, mine seems DRY. So in terms of adding any lubricant, my first thought is if the manufacturer no longer lubes them, and it’s not cost related, then perhaps it’s for more accurate readings for all functions. And the manufacturer most likely could have found an appropriate lube if they felt using a lube was best. 


With that said, I’d still like to ask the owners here, their opinion. I’d agree the most effective way would be as some have done, filing/smoothing the metal slide-rail edges. I’m NOT going to do that, so it’s either DRY (as delivered), or a lube/grease solution. 


I’d like to use one of the products I already own, as they all seem applicable. They all claim to make better electrical conductivity, and lower electrical resistance. 


Seems one of the main differences in these lubes, is if they conduct electricity or not, and I’m not sure if that is a positive or negative in this specific application?


Here are the choices I already own:


1) DEOXIT GOLD (non-conductive)
2) NYGOL 760G (Dielectric, non-conductive)
3) NOALOX (conductive)


If there is any consensus that a small amount of lube won’t effect the accuracy of the chargers readings, then I would lean toward trying the DEOXIT GOLD, as it’s so thin. Downside is the thicker grease of the NYOGEL would probably make the sliders move better, but we all know the more lube, the more dirt etc. can stick to it, that’s the advantage of the DEOXIT GOLD, it goes on thin, drys a bit and supposedly leaves some lube on the surface, not sure if this will actually make the sliders move better, but it seems the lease intrusive of the three lubes I have. 


Opinions please? Thanks!

ADDED: Good article assuming the authors expertise on “grease”, from an antenna forum.

http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

ALSO: [h=1]Myth: Grease Interferes With Conductivity[/h]
https://www.nyelubricants.com/myth-grease-interferes-with-conductivity


----------



## fmc1

mactavish said:


> Just received the SkyRC MC3000 (came with FW 1.14, I updated to latest 1.15, HW V.2.2)
> 
> 
> QUESTION: “To LUBE or not to LUBE”
> 
> 
> I have browsed this thread but not read every post. I’ve read various opinions on the rough sliding “sliders” in the slots. With the beefy springs, it’s not easy and rough feeling using mine.
> 
> 
> I’ve read that the original units had grease on the slider rails, and they stopped using any some time ago, mine seems DRY. So in terms of adding any lubricant, my first thought is if the manufacturer no longer lubes them, and it’s not cost related, then perhaps it’s for more accurate readings for all functions. And the manufacturer most likely could have found an appropriate lube if they felt using a lube was best.
> 
> 
> With that said, I’d still like to ask the owners here, their opinion. I’d agree the most effective way would be as some have done, filing/smoothing the metal slide-rail edges. I’m NOT going to do that, so it’s either DRY (as delivered), or a lube/grease solution.
> 
> 
> I’d like to use one of the products I already own, as they all seem applicable. They all claim to make better electrical conductivity, and lower electrical resistance.
> 
> 
> Seems one of the main differences in these lubes, is if they conduct electricity or not, and I’m not sure if that is a positive or negative in this specific application?
> 
> 
> Here are the choices I already own:
> 
> 
> 1) DEOXIT GOLD (non-conductive)
> 2) NYGOL 760G (Dielectric, non-conductive)
> 3) NOALOX (conductive)
> 
> 
> If there is any consensus that a small amount of lube won’t effect the accuracy of the chargers readings, then I would lean toward trying the DEOXIT GOLD, as it’s so thin. Downside is the thicker grease of the NYOGEL would probably make the sliders move better, but we all know the more lube, the more dirt etc. can stick to it, that’s the advantage of the DEOXIT GOLD, it goes on thin, drys a bit and supposedly leaves some lube on the surface, not sure if this will actually make the sliders move better, but it seems the lease intrusive of the three lubes I have.
> 
> 
> Opinions please? Thanks!
> 
> ADDED: Good article assuming the authors expertise on “grease”, from an antenna forum.
> 
> http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm
> 
> ALSO: *Myth: Grease Interferes With Conductivity*
> 
> 
> https://www.nyelubricants.com/myth-grease-interferes-with-conductivity



First off good luck with the charger. I think you made a very good choice. Let me try to answer your questions.

There is no way I would use anything conductive for lubrication. The PCB is below the sliders so anything conductive making contact with the PCB can easily cause a short and gravity will help make that happen. I have owned every hardware generation of these chargers as far as I know and don’t remember seeing any kind of lubrication on the sliders since my very first one that I bought in early 2016.


I’m a big nyogel fan but I would not use it for this. I have put a little silicone spray on a few of mine that got a little sticky and it worked fine.

If you are worried about the calibration being affected after you lubricate it then you bought the right charger because you can recalibrate it if you have a good DMM.


If you want to take it over the top then my advice is to have a can of silicone spray handy and a battery with about 4V charge that has been renting at least 24 hours as well a DMM. Put the battery in all four slots one at a time checking the voltage then compare it to the DMM, now you have a benchmark. Then spray the silicone and work it in a little till the sliders are smooth. After that repeat the battery voltage test and see if anything changed. On the one in 100 chance the calibration changed enough to affect your application, just recalibrate it.


Frank


----------



## mactavish

fmc1 said:


> First off good luck with the charger. I think you made a very good choice. Let me try to answer your questions.
> 
> There is no way I would use anything conductive for lubrication. The PCB is below the sliders so anything conductive making contact with the PCB can easily cause a short and gravity will help make that happen. I have owned every hardware generation of these chargers as far as I know and don’t remember seeing any kind of lubrication on the sliders since my very first one that I bought in early 2016.
> 
> 
> I’m a big nyogel fan but I would not use it for this. I have put a little silicone spray on a few of mine that got a little sticky and it worked fine.
> 
> If you are worried about the calibration being affected after you lubricate it then you bought the right charger because you can recalibrate it if you have a good DMM.
> 
> 
> If you want to take it over the top then my advice is to have a can of silicone spray handy and a battery with about 4V charge that has been renting at least 24 hours as well a DMM. Put the battery in all four slots one at a time checking the voltage then compare it to the DMM, now you have a benchmark. Then spray the silicone and work it in a little till the sliders are smooth. After that repeat the battery voltage test and see if anything changed. On the one in 100 chance the calibration changed enough to affect your application, just recalibrate it.
> 
> 
> Frank



Thanks Frank. Even though the MC3000 has been out for 5 years, I couldn’t find any other product at this price that could do as much. It will easily replace my Powerex Maha MH-C9000 (nimh) and the Xtar XP2 (lithium’s). 

So so that’s a strong vote for NO LUBE. I’m just concerned about bending the slider posts. If things get too sticky, I’ll try silicone on a QTip, or the Deoxit applying lightly just on the rails. The only lube I own that claims it’s conducive, is the Noalox, which is a messy grey paste, I listed it as I had read someone in this thread used it, and I’m sure it made the sliders glide better, but I’d rather do some research and use the more appropriate product, hence my original post. 

I’m just getting into the manual, and am formulating some more questions on some things that confuse me, so I’ll be back here soon. Thanks again for taking the time to respond, thought everyone may have moved on from this long thread.


----------



## adamlau

No lube here. I depress the slider all the way down before inserting a cell in the cradle. Slowly release the slider and the cell self-centers.


----------



## mactavish

adamlau said:


> No lube here. I depress the slider all the way down before inserting a cell in the cradle. Slowly release the slider and the cell self-centers.



Thanks, that’s what I always do. 

Here’s a QUESTION:
After a refresh cycle C-D-C, you get two results for total mAh, one is after after the 1st discharge called “CAPACITY” on MC3000 screen , the 2nd is after the final charge, called “CHARGED”, the two will scroll back and forth when you are looking at the final stats. 

I’m pasting this quote:
“Discharge capacity is universally regarded as a more accurate test then charge capacity mainly because of the heat loss during a charge, heat is energy.”

So for record keeping, it seems the 1st results after DISCHARGE called “CAPACITY” (on charger), is the more accurate, and the one to record in my notes. 

BUT, so far what I’ve noticed the the MaH results are consistently 50mAh HIGHER, for the final charge called “CHARGED” (on charger). 

If the pasted quote above is true, and charging “heat” effects the mAh readings, wouldn’t my mAh results after the final charge be LOWER, and not higher?

Which is true?


----------



## MaestroDaVinci

Hello i recently (a week ago) a got mine and everything seems to be OK, however i decided to search a info regarding one of the best features this charger was the bluetooth connectivity which allows me to follow the battery charge and to change settings from the phone. However i guess i didn't expect it to be that hard. So my phone is Android 10 and the bluetooth works on it, but when its turned on it asks to connect to the charger which i normal, but it asks for a pin, which i can't seem to find. I tried the app and in there the app states that the bluetooth is not turned on even though it is. So can anyone help me?

Also one more thing, the analyzer thing how does it work and what program or option should i choose to analyze? Because i searched the menu options but there is no analyzer part.

Also is there anything special about the charger that i should know or read i know that this thread is about the charger but it is also 178 pages long. So thank you in advance.


----------



## sbj

mactavish said:


> ...BUT, so far what I’ve noticed the the MaH results are consistently 50mAh HIGHER, for the final charge called “CHARGED” (on charger).
> 
> If the pasted quote above is true, and charging “heat” effects the mAh readings, wouldn’t my mAh results after the final charge be LOWER, and not higher?
> 
> Which is true?



It is true that the discharge capacity represents the energy content of a battery more precisely than the charged capacity. But your conclusion about the charged capacity and the heat generated is wrong.

If no heat were generated during charging, the discharge and charge capacity would be the same (in simple terms). But because heat is generated, this proportion must be used additionally when charging. When charging, the charger not only shows the mAh that is stored in the battery, but also those that were lost due to heat.


----------



## sbj

MaestroDaVinci said:


> ..........Also one more thing, the analyzer thing how does it work and what program or option should i choose to analyze? Because i searched the menu options but there is no analyzer part.....


 That depends on what you want to analyze on a battery. The most important parameters of a battery are probably the internal resistance and the usable capacity. 

To measure the internal resistance, place a battery in the charging compartment, then press the negative connection against the battery, with the other hand turn the battery slightly to reduce any contact resistance and then press and hold the arrow button up and down at the same time to start the measurement.

To measure the capacity stored in a battery, insert a charged battery and use the discharge function to discharge it with 0.2C discharge current to the final discharge voltage specified by the manufacturer. For the sake of simplicity, you can also use the cycle program C ^ D ^ C for this.
These are the main characteristics of a battery that need to be analyzed.


----------



## HKJ

sbj said:


> If no heat were generated during charging, the discharge and charge capacity would be the same (in simpe terms). But because heat is generated, this proportion must be used additionally when charging. When charging, the charger not only shows the mAh that is stored in the battery, but also those that were lost due to heat.



That is not correct, with LiIon charge and discharge capacity is basically the same, even if they are hot during a charge.
You have to distinguish between capacity (Ah) and energy (Wh), even if the capacity is the same, the energy is not (Charge voltage is higher than discharge voltage).


----------



## sbj

I already expected this objection from the experts. These context are also clear to me.

The point here is actually to explain to a beginner why NiMh chargers display a higher capacity when charging than when discharging. I wrote about it: (in simple terms).


----------



## MaestroDaVinci

sbj said:


> That depends on what you want to analyze on a battery. The most important parameters of a battery are probably the internal resistance and the usable capacity.
> 
> To measure the internal resistance, place a battery in the charging compartment, then press the negative connection against the battery, with the other hand turn the battery slightly to reduce any contact resistance and then press and hold the arrow button up and down at the same time to start the measurement.
> 
> To measure the capacity stored in a battery, insert a charged battery and use the discharge function to discharge it with 0.2C discharge current to the final discharge voltage specified by the manufacturer. For the sake of simplicity, you can also use the cycle program C ^ D ^ C for this.
> These are the main characteristics of a battery that need to be analyzed.


Thank you!!


----------



## docustompc

Trying to install Data Explorer on Raspberry pi - it installs but cannot get usb drivers for MC3000 to work..
Has anyone had success with this 

Program opens but when clicking on start gathering it throws a usb error 

I have installed the sh files for the device but they don't seem to do a lot 

Any help much appreciated

Best Regards
Dean


----------



## mactavish

HKJ said:


> That is not correct, with LiIon charge and discharge capacity is basically the same, even if they are hot during a charge.
> You have to distinguish between capacity (Ah) and energy (Wh), even if the capacity is the same, the energy is not (Charge voltage is higher than discharge voltage).



Thanks, my lithium battery “REFRESH” cycle results of only a 50 mAh is certainly close as you say, I was still surprised at seeing the opposite of what the quote I posted stated, as I assumed if charging cycle created more heat then discharge cycle then the final mAh capacity called “CHARGED” would be lower not higher. I’ll use the lower mAh for my records taken from the “CAPACITY” field. 

Now HKJ touched on my next question. Using lithium’s in the “REFRESH” program, WH’s like the mAh results have TWO reported results. One “WH” called “ENERGY”, which I believe is the result after the discharge cycle, the second called “CHARGED”, shows the results after the final charge cycle. I assume, the higher results after final charge cycle are the more accurate results to write down and save?

My 18650 results:
ENERGY = -8.99 WH
CHARGED = +9.45 WH


----------



## sbj

You have to be clear about which energy you want to measure exactly. 
Do you want to measure the energy that a charged battery can deliver? In my opinion that is what interests most. Then the discharge energy is the exact value.

On the other hand, if you want to measure the energy that is necessary to charge these batteries, e.g. because you only have a power bank etc. available for this, then the charging energy is the more important value for you.


----------



## mactavish

Appreciate the follow up answers, as my last charger only allowed me to set the charge amps, so I have a lot to learn. Thanks!


NEW QUESTION:


FROM THE MANUAL “SPV:


“CAPACITY (or NOMINAL) 
Primarily meant as safety option, lets the user set a reasonable upper limit for the transfer of electric charge per discharge or charge routine of a program. Enter, for example, 4200mAh for a 20% buffer on a 3500mAh rated battery. The capacity cut-off is to prevent overcharging or overdischarging, especially of batteries with unknown performance or capacity. Or, may be set to stop the slot prematurely on purpose after the transfer of a well-defined amount of electric charge. In some situations it may be convenient to just set it to OFF. In Break_in mode, this option is labeled NOMINAL and the user is required to enter a value as exactly as possible, the nominal capacity of the battery.”


In most of the “charge mode” fields, you can enter the RATED (not nominal) mAh from a battery manufacturers spec sheet. I LIKE that both the CURRENT & TERMINATION settings are adjusted dynamically to the percentages of a “standard” charge profile, and if you choose “NONE” in the mAh field, you can manually set both Current & Termination, to your liking. 


So what is my CONFUSION?


The manual appears to suggest that entering the mAh manually can act as a “safety option”, and will CUT OFF the charge when this mAh setting is reached. I assume this could happen if one makes a mistake setting the mAh too low, or has the wrong info from a battery spec sheet, or if set low on purpose. I have NOT tested this “safety cutoff” feature. 


But, if one follows the manuals advice and manually sets the published rated mAh for the battery charge 20% higher, then of course both the CURRENT & TERMINATION fields increase “higher” automatically as well, but now reflect settings that are for a battery that is NOT really 20% higher in rated capacity. 


So basically I’m not sure if I should continue to manually set the mAh field with the true published rated battery capacity with both the current and termination settings adjusted automatically by the charger software. Or, add 20% to that same mAh number, and except the higher current and termination settings the charger will choose automatically?


Hope I made the question clear enough. The manual is very good compared to most, slogging my way through it.....

Thanks again.


----------



## sbj

Charging NiMh batteries. Here it can make sense to enter a capacity value as overcharge protection. 

Charging LiIo batteries. In principle, I switch off the capacity limitation here. Because even if there were a defect in the end-of-charge voltage regulation, which I have not heard of from any of the well-known manufacturers to date, it is practically hardly possible to estimate the capacity limit precisely enough at the start of charging. 
It is better to be nearby when charging LiIo batteries. 

If you feel more secure, you can also enter a capacity limit when charging LiIo.

If you use this, the MC3000 will automatically suggest a charge current of 0.5C. The termination current is then 10% of the proposed charging current. 
I wasn't even aware that the charger does this. You saw that well. 
Of course that is not binding. You can enter other values here at any time. There are many users who generally charge with a maximum of 0.4C. The level of the charging current also depends on the exact battery type. Batteries capable of high currents can also handle higher charging rates.


----------



## mactavish

Thanks, you confirmed what I was seeing. While I appreciate the convenience of the charger doing the math for me when entering in a mAh rating, if I didn’t read the manual, I would have NO idea that the charge cycle would terminate the charge when and if it ever hit the manually entered mAh rating. I assume this would most likely only happen if you grossly underestimated the rating or just made a low mistake. Also wouldn’t the charger have to go a C-D-C refresh program to determine and see the actual and accumulated mAh totals, to match the entered mAh cutoff?

Seems like an innocent setting, but has the ability in some instances of terminating a charge, or am I’m missing something?


----------



## sbj

In the consumer area of small round cell chargers, the charging current for NiMh cells was mostly only regulated via differently high plus contact arrangements. In better devices, the charging current could be adjusted either directly or indirectly via a capacity input. 
Entering a capacity limit as overcharge protection, comes in my opinion from the area of RC chargers, where this has been in use for a long time. SKYRC also makes some RC chargers. So it is not surprising that this technique was used in the development (with the support of users) of a sophisticated round cell charger such as the MC3000. 

This is why the question of the best charger is not ever so easy to answer. While a beginner is usually overwhelmed with the many setting options of the MC3000, it can be exactly the right tool for an experienced user to meet even more unusual requirements.



mactavish said:


> ..... Also wouldn’t the charger have to go a C-D-C refresh program to determine and see the actual and accumulated mAh totals, to match the entered mAh cutoff?
> 
> Seems like an innocent setting, but has the ability in some instances of terminating a charge, or am I’m missing something?


For charging LiIo batteries: 
As I have already indicated above, it is not necessary to enter a capacity limit for a normally functioning LiIo charger for the correct end-of-charge termination. 

For charging NiMh batteries:
First of all, it must be ensured that the charger reliably detects the end of charging during the charging - discharging - charging cycle. To do this, you should select a charging current of at least 0.3C so that the -dV/dt end-of-charge detection of the charger can work.
Second, intelligent battery labeling (e.g. such as Battgo) would be necessary for a meaningful application, which ensures correct allocation. 
That would make the entire charging system extremely expensive and restrict it to a few providers. 

Instead, the MC3000 offers some memories, where you can permanently program some charging programs (e.g. also with capacity or time limits) for the most frequently used batteries.


----------



## mactavish

QUESTIONS on settings for NIMH TERMINATION- BIG BATS




I’ve read a lot of the posts on -dV NIMH Delta Peak termination in this thread, understanding a fair portion of it. So I thought I would see how the only (4)- “D” cells I own were doing that sit hardly used for years in an LED lantern light, using my new SkyRC MC3000.


BATTERY:
Tenergy “Centura” LSD 1.2v 8000mAh NIMH “D-cell”: 


The light still turned on, batteries not charged in a few years. I agree with @kreisl and the MC3000 manual, that I don’t want to run the days long ”Break_In” program on such a large capacity battery. Figured I use the advice in the manual to do a simple DISCHARGE- CHARGE and see the results. 


I left most of the NIMH charger settings at defaults. First I tried just charging the first two cells (SkyRC holds 2 “D” cells in bays #1 and #4). One terminated, one did not. So I read up on the various ways the charger terminates a NIMH, since I was clueless, I’m more comfortable with the simpler Lithium’s.


Seems the #1 way of termination is the Negative Delta Peak, so I left that at the default of “3mv”. 


The ”experts” seem to agree these days that charging at a,
“.5C”, or higher is helpful to terminate at the proper moment. BUT, using lower charge rates might NOT initiate termination, less of a difference for program to see. None of this has been an issue for my AA/AAA’s as I normally charge those 2000mAh at the recommended .5C, or 1A. But it seemingly can be an issue with these high mAh ”D” cells. I’ll explain.


The specification sheet on these Tenergy’s does not list “C” rates, only states:


”Standard charging = 780mA for 16 hours
Quick charging = 1560mA for 7 hours”


Since I saw no other rates, I was not sure if going higher was safe or inefficient. They do use the words “quick charging”, so that formula I’ll use as the high rate, and charge and discharge at 1.5 amps. PROBLEM, from what I hope to understand is, even that charge rate is really calculated to be a LOW “0.2C” rate on such a large 8000mAh battery. And thus the potential for early termination based on the information I wrote above about low charge rates and early termination. Since at least on this battery I do not think I should increase the charge rate (I think the charger limit is 2-3amps anyways), so I look back to the charger manual, which mentions, “this may happen to old batteries..... so use “0dv” (zero delta voltage method)”. I’m not sure I know enough about setting the delta to zero, and at what “voltage plateau” these batteries will ever get to. 


A few other termination and or safety possibilities:


BATTERY CAPACITY: While listed as 8000mAh, my first charge/discharge tests both terminated early by reaching this limit, on both CHG/DISC, even after I increased the mAh to 9000. I don’t know why. So next time I’m going to try setting:
mAh= NONE.
*potential downside?, lose one more possible safety backup termination. After this first early test, I aborted and went back to read more. 


TARGET VOLTAGE: I left at the default of: 1.65v
I don’t know when and if NIMH batteries ever reach that, so I assume it’s another safety option, as I don’t think 1.65 volts would be a preferred termination setting?


CUT TIME: I left this: OFF, I suppose it could be a solid way to avoid a missed termination and overcharging? Seems one would need the manufacturers battery data sheet for “charge time limits”, if they exist? Otherwise, I’d only be guessing, so I left this off.


CUT TEMPERATURE: I left this at the default of: 113f/45c, Without battery data sheet specifics, I’d only be making an uneducated guess to change here. Seems best as an over temp safe guard, not an accurate termination setting?




FOR REFERENCE FROM MANUAL, V1.14:


DELTA PEAK:
Delta-peak sensibility. A technical parameter to control charge termination of NiMH/NiCd batteries through the commonly recommended negative delta voltage -dV or -dV/dt method, or through zero delta voltage method, 0dV or 0dV/dt. When charging a healthy specimen at constant current the voltage graph normally peaks around full charge completion. A higher setting will ensure that this peak has been passed with certainty but will also charge longer than necessary. "0dV" will terminate the charging when the peak extends to a voltage plateau, i.e. does not show a well defined voltage drop. The latter may happen with old batteries or at very low charge rates or both. As a rule of thumb, use -dV for topped off charging and 0dV as no-brainer in all other cases.”


So to sum up long.... question:


If the DELTA PEAK default setting of “3mv” fails to terminate charge, is setting it to “ZERO”, really the best and perhaps only acceptable option, and can that method be fairly accurate when looking for a full charge, as in the charger completing the program, and “Green solid light”? 


What about raising or lowering the Delta Peak instead of the default of “3mv”? Currently, I know nothing about this.


Apologies for long post. Reply to any or all questions. Forgive and CORRECT anything I wrote, as these are just notes I’ve collected from this thread, and forum, picking from the most intelligent posts and respected members I hope!


----------



## sbj

mactavish said:


> BATTERY CAPACITY:…….. While listed as 8000mAh, my first charge/discharge tests both terminated early by reaching this limit, on both CHG/DISC, even after I increased the mAh to 9000. I don’t know why. ……


 Well, that's really nice when your batteries deliver more than 9000mAh even during the discharge test! 



mactavish said:


> ....So to sum up long.... question:
> 
> If the DELTA PEAK default setting of “3mv” fails to terminate charge, is setting it to “ZERO”, really the best and perhaps only acceptable option, and can that method be fairly accurate when looking for a full charge, as in the charger completing the program, and “Green solid light”?
> 
> What about raising or lowering the Delta Peak instead of the default of “3mv”? Currently, I know nothing about this....


 So "AA Cycler" (http://81.2.250.96/about/how/) mainly uses the setting 0dV/dt for end-of-charge detection in his extensive cycle tests. 
With this setting, the charger switches off a little earlier than e.g. at - 3mV Delta Peak. - Just give it a try.

If you would like to learn more and more details about the end-of-charge detection methods when charging NiMh batteries, I have a very informative link for you where the member "HKJ" has examined the various methods in detail:
http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html


----------



## mactavish

sbj said:


> Well, that's really nice when your batteries deliver more than 9000mAh even during the discharge test!
> 
> 
> So "AA Cycler" (http://81.2.250.96/about/how/) mainly uses the setting 0dV/dt for end-of-charge detection in his extensive cycle tests.
> With this setting, the charger switches off a little earlier than e.g. at - 3mV Delta Peak. - Just give it a try.
> 
> If you would like to learn more and more details about the end-of-charge detection methods when charging NiMh batteries, I have a very informative link for you where the member "HKJ" has examined the various methods in detail:
> http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryChargingNiMH UK.html



Thanks, I’m very familiar with the great work of @HKJ, revisited that link, he says:

0dv/dt termination

-dv/dt termination only works at higher charge current (see below), when the charge current is lower the voltage drops disappears. Instead of looking for a voltage drop, it is possible to look for a steady voltage (or maybe even a very slowly raising voltage) and use that as termination.
It can be used as supplement to -dv/dt termination to improve termination detection. I.e. the charger stops if the voltage drops or stays steady for some time.

I don’t see any option on the MC3000, to use 0dv termination to “SUPPLEMENT”, the DELTA PEAK setting, you can set it to ZERO, instead of the default of 3mv, but don’t understand the use of the word “supplement”, as it seems you either set to ZERO, or choose a MV rate, not BOTH?

The link to “AACycler”: He is NO longer using a SkyRC MC3000, he states he uses “0dv” for termination, but does not say why, perhaps as he is only testing AA/AAA batteries and using a charger that does not support -dv (OPUS BT-C2000). Regardless, I’m not interested in running the charger for weeks doing constant REFRESH cycles, especially on 8000nAh batteries, the ones I mentioned in my long post above, so not much there pertaining to my most recent questions, above.

FINISHED FIRST PAIR - Tenergy “Centura” LSD 1.2v 8000mAh NIMH “D-cell”:

After DISCHARGING at 1.5 amps, ran,
the CHARGE program, terminated on its own, with the settings I used in my previous post, main difference from failed terminations before, turned battery capacity mAh setting to OFF. Used the default DELTA PEAK = 3mv. 

Charge times of 7 hours at 1.5 amps, match spec sheet. The LOW “0.2C” charge rate didn’t seem to interfere with the 3mv Delta Peak from recognizing and terminating the charge, as I only ASSUME, that was the setting that caused the proper termination?

The only ISSUE I don’t understand, is this battery is rated at 8000mAh, after the charge program finished, both batteries showed CAPACITY at a bit OVER = 10,0000 mAh !!!

What would cause this? FREE JUICE.....

ADDED THIS FROM ENELOOP101 FAQ (HKJ mentioned)

“Instead of measuring whether a Voltage drops, like the aforementioned -dV/dt termination, this one does it in a different way.
When a battery is depleted the Voltage is lower than when fully charged. When you charge a battery, the Voltage will rise over time. But at a certain Voltage the battery stops increasing its Voltage, and therefore the charger could determine to stop charging. The 0 dV refers to 0 Voltage difference at x amount of time. As the battery tester HKJ has pointed out, this type of termination is sometimes difficult to distinguish from a -dV/dt termination.
A charger like the Lacrosse BC700 probably uses this termination, especially at lower current. This is still not a recommended termination for NiMH.”

NOTE: last line “still not a recommended termination”, I guess I’ll use it if my Delta Peak 3mv setting fails termination, as none of the other termination choices seem very good, as I mentioned a few in my previous post, and HKJ goes over in detail in his page on the topic.


----------



## sbj

mactavish said:


> ....I don’t see any option on the MC3000, to use 0dv termination to “SUPPLEMENT”, the DELTA PEAK setting, you can set it to ZERO, instead of the default of 3mv, but don’t understand the use of the word “supplement”, as it seems you either set to ZERO, or choose a MV rate, not BOTH?....


 Regardless of whether someone calls it "supplement" or something else, it is the moment when the charging voltage curve changes to the horizontal one. If the charging current is sufficiently high, this is e.g. the moment just before a drop in voltage and thus a delta peak occurs. 
However, because there is no voltage difference during this constant voltage phase, one does not want to call this moment "Delta Peak" or "0mV Delta Peak". 

But if you set the Delta Peak value to 0 on the MC3000, it will not show "0 mV", but "0dV". This tells the charger to stop charging as soon as the charging voltage no longer increases.




mactavish said:


> ..The only ISSUE I don’t understand, is this battery is rated at 8000mAh, after the charge program finished, both batteries showed CAPACITY at a bit OVER = 10,0000 mAh !!!
> 
> What would cause this? FREE JUICE.....


 
You have already quoted the answer here:


mactavish said:


> .....I’m pasting this quote:
> “Discharge capacity is universally regarded as a more accurate test then charge capacity mainly because of the heat loss during a charge, heat is energy.”
> ....


 -------------------------------------



mactavish said:


> ....NOTE: last line “still not a recommended termination”, I guess I’ll use it if my Delta Peak 3mv setting fails termination, as none of the other termination choices seem very good, as I mentioned a few in my previous post, and HKJ goes over in detail in his page on the topic.


 
Why should -dV / dt not work at -3mV? - E.g. if you charge with insufficient charging current. 
Try that with 0.1C charging current. Then the charger will no longer finish charging correctly.:shakehead

But for the sake of simplicity, I would make such experiments with smaller, cheaper AAA batteries.


----------



## mactavish

sbj said:


> Regardless of whether someone calls it "supplement" or something else, it is the moment when the charging voltage curve changes to the horizontal one. If the charging current is sufficiently high, this is e.g. the moment just before a drop in voltage and thus a delta peak occurs.
> However, because there is no voltage difference during this constant voltage phase, one does not want to call this moment "Delta Peak" or "0mV Delta Peak".
> 
> But if you set the Delta Peak value to 0 on the MC3000, it will not show "0 mV", but "0dV". This tells the charger to stop charging as soon as the charging voltage no longer increases.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have already quoted the answer here:
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> Why should -dV / dt not work at -3mV? - E.g. if you charge with insufficient charging current.
> Try that with 0.1C charging current. Then the charger will no longer finish charging correctly.:shakehead
> 
> But for the sake of simplicity, I would make such experiments with smaller, cheaper AAA batteries.



Well, I wanted to charge the biggest 80000 mAh “D” batteries I have, my AA Eneloops terminate fine at “.5a” charge, but as I wrote, these 8000 mAh “D” batteries were charged at the spec sheet setting of “0.2C”, or 1.5amps. Hence my original concern that they may not terminate properly. I monitored the temperature just in case, and was happy ALL four terminated on their own. 

This is the results of the 2nd pair:

BAT #3:
Capacity: 8768 mAh
WH: 12.4
Total Time: 6:11

BAT #4:
Capacity: 8494
WH: 12.1
Total Time: 6:00

This 2nd pair, after a discharge, then charged at the same 1.5 amps, completed in 1 hour less time then the first pair, and their CAPACITY, is much closer to their spec sheet rate of 8000mAh. 

Still no idea why the first pair showed over 10,000mAh’s, don’t understand......

Thanks again for responding, as the interest here seems to have diminished as folks have moved on, my fault as I’m late to this party. Other then the difficulty of achieving accurate DC IR readings, this charger is AMAZING!


----------



## sbj

How high was the discharge capacity of the first two batteries that swallowed 10,000mAh while charging? 
Because 25% more capacity would be extraordinary. Perhaps they were swapped with real 10Ah cells when they were labeled? 
I don't know, however, whether 10Ah cells of this size are available in stores? You don't care. Anyway, you got a good grip on them.

The thing with the end of charge detection at 0.2C charging current can work with new batteries. But you have to expect that this will no longer work with older batteries at some point.


----------



## mactavish

sbj said:


> How high was the discharge capacity of the first two batteries that swallowed 10,000mAh while charging?
> Because 25% more capacity would be extraordinary. Perhaps they were swapped with real 10Ah cells when they were labeled?
> I don't know, however, whether 10Ah cells of this size are available in stores? You don't care. Anyway, you got a good grip on them.
> 
> The thing with the end of charge detection at 0.2C charging current can work with new batteries. But you have to expect that this will no longer work with older batteries at some point.



I used the same rate on discharge, 1.5 amps. These are 7 years old, pretty good!
Thankfully, these are the only “D” size I own, for one particular LED camp lantern. So it goes back to storage. 
All my AA/AAA Eneloops are terminating properly at 3mv.


----------



## mactavish

Quick question:
I’m running FW: 1.15

Found this on the SkyRC site:
”Dear Customers,
The latest firmware V1.13 for MC3000 is available now.
Download the upgrade package from the link below and try the new functions.

Apart from bug fixes the visible changes are as follows:
1. Fixing the BATT IR display bug.
2. Fixing the switch of beeping for screensaver.
3. In GSV, add an option Save To: {Slot|All Slots|Ready} which determines the default setting of SAVE TO in SPV

I have the Screen Saver set to OFF, as it BEEPS in the game. I like all the charger beeps, so I keep those on. I assume that the #2 change was something else, and you still have to disable the SS, or listen to beeps?


----------



## fmc1

^^^^^^^^


In firmware 1.12 the screen saver would beep even if you set system beep to off. Firmware 1.13 changed that so if you have system beep set to off the screen saver is silent. This continued in 1.14 and 1.15.


Frank


----------



## mactavish

fmc1 said:


> ^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> In firmware 1.12 the screen saver would beep even if you set system beep to off. Firmware 1.13 changed that so if you have system beep set to off the screen saver is silent. This continued in 1.14 and 1.15.
> 
> 
> Frank



Thanks Frank,
Too bad they didn’t allow a setting to keep screen saver ON, with game beep = OFF, seems firmware is pretty much locked by now. No big deal, that little low res screen probably doesn’t deserve a screen saver... 

Now how do you get a AAA battery to sit properly on the last revision of the bay slider tabs? Seems the negative side needs to be lifted up to make contact, I’m trying to keep the front positive end down to make contact with the temperature sensor band? Really hard to get a decent IR reading with AAA batteries.


----------



## bubbajoe56

*​*


MaestroDaVinci said:


> Hello i recently (a week ago) a got mine and everything seems to be OK, however i decided to search a info regarding one of the best features this charger was the bluetooth connectivity which allows me to follow the battery charge and to change settings from the phone. However i guess i didn't expect it to be that hard. So my phone is Android 10 and the bluetooth works on it, but when its turned on it asks to connect to the charger which i normal, but it asks for a pin, which i can't seem to find. I tried the app and in there the app states that the bluetooth is not turned on even though it is. So can anyone help me?"
> 
> Hi, did you find a solution about Android 10 Bluetooth and the required PIN? I have the same issue with mt Samsung tablet running Android 10.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## MaestroDaVinci

@bubbajoe56, No. I'm still looking for a solution, and yet i don't know what to expect from the looks of it, another posts on this thread say the problem might be the app itself.


----------



## mactavish

QUESTION: D-REDUCE % FORMULA?

The generally accepted starting point formula for lithium charge “termination” setting seems to be 10% of the “charge current”. These formulas are helpful for us charger setting newbies. 

Is there a similar % formula for the chargers “D-REDUCE” setting, and if so would the same percentage apply to both NiMH and lithium’s? 

And is there a formula or a rough way to estimate how much additional time would be added to a discharge routine, as one lowers and lowers the “D-REDUCE”, setting below whatever a formula might suggest. I’m just wondering if the extra more gentle discharge might add a lot more time versus some small gain in capacity?

Thanks!


----------



## sbj

There is no such standard recommendation for discharging.
As with all setting options, it depends on what you want to achieve. 

I would like to use this option of the MC3000 for example, to save time when discharging for a capacity measurement or to bring the battery to a certain discharge level. 

For a large part of the rechargeable batteries, the nominal capacity specified by the manufacturer relates to a discharge current of 0.2C at a certain end-of-discharge voltage. - In that way, it's like a standard..

If I now perform a capacity test on a battery according to the manufacturer's specifications, it takes around 5.0 hours. However I come to approximately the same result, if I start the discharge with 1C discharge current and the charger then continuously reduces the discharge current to 0.2C when the end-of-*dis*charge voltage is reached. The time required for this will be only a little over an hour. 



mactavish said:


> .....And is there a formula or a rough way to estimate how much additional time would be added to a discharge routine, as one lowers and lowers the “D-REDUCE”, setting below whatever a formula might suggest. I’m just wondering if the extra more gentle discharge might add a lot more time versus some small gain in capacity?
> 
> Thanks!


 The additional time required is difficult to estimate, because in addition to the discharge current, it also depends heavily on the internal resistance of the battery.
But as you have already correctly recognized, with very small discharge currents, the extra capacity is small and the extra time required is very high.


----------



## mactavish

U


sbj said:


> There is no such standard recommendation for discharging.
> As with all setting options, it depends on what you want to achieve.
> 
> I would like to use this option of the MC3000 for example, to save time when discharging for a capacity measurement or to bring the battery to a certain discharge level.
> 
> For a large part of the rechargeable batteries, the nominal capacity specified by the manufacturer relates to a discharge current of 0.2C at a certain end-of-discharge voltage. - In that way, it's like a standard..
> 
> If I now perform a capacity test on a battery according to the manufacturer's specifications, it takes around 5.0 hours. However I come to approximately the same result, if I start the discharge with 1C discharge current and the charger then continuously reduces the discharge current to 0.2C when the end-of-charge voltage is reached. The time required for this will be only a little over an hour.
> 
> 
> The additional time required is difficult to estimate, because in addition to the discharge current, it also depends heavily on the internal resistance of the battery.
> But as you have already correctly recognized, with very small discharge currents, the extra capacity is small and the extra time required is very high.



Thanks again!
Your example is great, and shows two ways to use D-REDUCE option. 

I’m going to take two new Eneloops, that I have already run a “Refresh” on, and do a 1 amp discharge on each, one with NO “D-REDUCE”, the other with a “D-REDUCE= .2 amps”. Normally, the “.2C discharge” on a 2000mAh Eneloop would be “.4 amps”. I’ll use the 1 amp discharge on each, so I can do a crud test to see how much extra time the .2 amp D-REDUCE setting adds.

ADDED QUICK DISCHARGE TEST RESULTS:

2 new Eneloop Pro XX “AAA” batteries fully charged. (Spec. MAX: 950 mAh MIN: 900 mAh
DISCHARGE RATE: 1 amp, 
CUT VOLTAGE: 1 Volt
*both batteries. 

#1: (Settings as above) 780mAh, 47 minutes. 
#2: ADDED “D-REDUCE” = .2 amps, 816mAh, 52 minutes. 

I’m sure using “AA” or larger, the discharge times would be greater, as well as using a lower D-REDUCE setting like “.05”, or similar. The sitting voltage on both seemed to climb back up to 1.2 volts fairly quickly on both, I assume lower settings would be needed?
Very interesting to learn. Thanks.


----------



## jross20

Hey guys, sorry to bud in to this intense discussion... but I was wondering if this is still the recommended charger for C and D cell nimh?
I've got some batteries coming but...no charger...haha.


----------



## Dascombe

Jcy said:


> Just got my mc2000 but is it normal that one fan is not spinning? Or does it detect which side need cooling and switch on the respective fan? Thanks.



The fan(s) on the MC3000 are strange (and annoying). If set on Auto, only the right fan seems to ever spin up. If set to any distinct value, both fans will engage; however once they do, they never seem to spin down again no matter how cool the charger gets. Seems like they're thermostatically controlled on the way up but not the way down. So strange.


----------



## mactavish

Love the “STORAGE” program! I have about (10) 18650 lithium’s, mostly Sony VTC4/5’s. Most are 5 years old, and I don’t use them, now I can run the Storage program and continue to store them, as they still seem good, at least comparing both AC & DC readings. Now, my...

QUESTION:
Since I don’t use these much, I didn’t want to spend time doing a C-D-C cycle, granted, that would tell me the current capacity. So I just used the storage program, all the batteries were 3.9-4.0v, so it went quickly. 

But, I began to wonder, if I should be running a C-D-C cycle, to “exercise”, these older, stored batteries?
I believe I read NIMH, do benefit from some exercise, and I know lithium’s have a long shelf life... but

Should I bother to condition/exercise these, or just leave them at the storage 3.8 volts, and put them away?
Thanks!


----------



## Dascombe

NiMH don't like sitting around unused but I don't think I've ever heard of Li-Ion needing "exercise". Personally, I'd just charge em to storage voltage, place them in a sealed container or zip-lock bag and place them in the fridge. That's what I do with some of my cells during the off-season...aka summer. For real long term storage, I'd probably take them out once a year just to make sure the voltage hasn't dropped too far and if not, stick them back in cold storage.


----------



## mactavish

Dascombe said:


> NiMH don't like sitting around unused but I don't think I've ever heard of Li-Ion needing "exercise". Personally, I'd just charge em to storage voltage, place them in a sealed container or zip-lock bag and place them in the fridge. That's what I do with some of my cells during the off-season...aka summer. For real long term storage, I'd probably take them out once a year just to make sure the voltage hasn't dropped too far and if not, stick them back in cold storage.



Thanks for your response. 
Thats what I assumed, just run the 3.8v storage program and be done with it. 
I did however run a REFRESH cycle on a few “suspect” 18650’s. This was helpful to see mAh, and watt hours, then I can toss/recycle the duds. 

The REFRESH C-D-C reveals these stats on two batteries that were marked as Sony VTC4’s (new spec. 2100mAh):

VTC4:
#1: 1800 mAh, 6.75 WH, DC IR= 31, AC IR= 15.7
#2: 1580 mAh, 5.85 WH, DC IR= 36, AC IR= 18.6
*After final charge, overnight voltage on both, steady at 4.19 volts. 

Assuming these were not fakes, these two have lost a lot of capacity. But they are over 5 years old.


----------



## ric9887

I have odd behavour on slot 1 which I noticed when discharging 18650.
I have 3 18650's in slot 1, 2 and 3.
Slots 2 and 3 do what they are supposed to do and slowly ramp up to the D.Current setting of .5.
Slot 1 however, immediatly shows -2.75 to -3.5 - and the ma counter counts up much quicker than the other slots using the same program - so it doesnt look like its just a display problem.
I have swapped the cells around, and the problem stays with slot 1.
I have tried a discharge cycle on different chem cells - and slot 1 appears to be behave correctly for Eneloops.
I have FW 1.15 installed which I have just re-downloaded and reflashed.
I have tried a factory reset, tried assigning a different program to slot 1 but no change.
The charge cycle on slot 1 also seems to think a slightly discharged 18650 cell is charged, and reports a completed charge a few moments after starting it.
It does however appear to work ok charging and discahrging Eneloops ok.
I am guessing the slots gone bad - but has anyone else seen this happen where it only affects 1 type of chemistry for 1 of the slots?


----------



## Dascombe

mactavish said:


> Thanks for your response.
> Thats what I assumed, just run the 3.8v storage program and be done with it.
> I did however run a REFRESH cycle on a few “suspect” 18650’s. This was helpful to see mAh, and watt hours, then I can toss/recycle the duds.
> 
> The REFRESH C-D-C reveals these stats on two batteries that were marked as Sony VTC4’s (new spec. 2100mAh):
> 
> VTC4:
> #1: 1800 mAh, 6.75 WH, DC IR= 31, AC IR= 15.7
> #2: 1580 mAh, 5.85 WH, DC IR= 36, AC IR= 18.6
> *After final charge, overnight voltage on both, steady at 4.19 volts.
> 
> Assuming these were not fakes, these two have lost a lot of capacity. But they are over 5 years old.



Laptop pulls? I've tested a bunch of old recovered cells and those numbers look about right, except for the IR values; those look awfully good for cells that have lost that much capacity (especially cell #2). On a recent bunch I tested, they had values in the low 100s (DC IR). Doing a discharge test on the MC3000 app, you could clearly see the voltage sag. Recycled that bunch.


----------



## Dascombe

ric9887 said:


> I have odd behavour on slot 1 which I noticed when discharging 18650.
> 
> I am guessing the slots gone bad - but has anyone else seen this happen where it only affects 1 type of chemistry for 1 of the slots?



I think I've read every post in this thread (over the course of the years that it has been active) and I vaguely recall someone reporting a similar issue but then again, my memory ain't what it used to be. It could also have been in a thread on the 'other forum' . Have you tried setting a program using the phone app?


----------



## mactavish

Dascombe said:


> Laptop pulls? I've tested a bunch of old recovered cells and those numbers look about right, except for the IR values; those look awfully good for cells that have lost that much capacity (especially cell #2). On a recent bunch I tested, they had values in the low 100s (DC IR). Doing a discharge test on the MC3000 app, you could clearly see the voltage sag. Recycled that bunch.



Not “pulls”, batteries I bought new from reputable dealers, though a few were given to me by friends, and those seem to be legit, though I’m no expert on fake detection, as it’s a moving target. 

I realized I was just be lazy, by just running all my old 18650’s on the STORAGE program, why not use the full capabilities of my new SUPER charger! So I just finished a C-D cycle, and with those results, I can see which ones to discard. Especially the loss of watt hours, as I can now keep those statistics for my records too.

I found one more 2015 year, Sony VTC4, like the #2 cell in my test you mentioned. This one is also well below the 2100mAh when new spec. 

VTC4:
1513mAh
WH: 5.6
DC: 41
AC IR: 18.7 (12=spec)

So those two are spent. All the other old VTC4’s are showing over 1850mAh, so I’ll store those as backups. 
My 2015, Sony VTC5’s, show over +2350mAh (2500mAh new spec), so they didn’t loose much capacity, all of the batteries I used, weren’t abused, I’m sure that has helped. Now that I know what to keep, I’ll run the STORAGE problem again. 

This charger is SUPER!


----------



## mactavish

QUICK QUESTION:

I’ve seen a few programs like C-D, C-D-C, etc., with:
Charge Rest = 30 minutes 
Discharge Rest = 60 minutes 
*I assume these are suggested standards, that’s built into the firmware?

However, the “STORAGE” program has both rest times as “OFF”, is this because it’s NOT needed in this program?
Thanks!


----------



## sbj

I think that I have already read something about NiMh batteries that they show measurably less usable capacity one day after charging, like directly after charging.

Up until now I have assumed the warming of the NiMh batteries at the end of the charge as a possible reason for a possibly necessary cooling phase. 
But I basically leave out these breaks.


----------



## mactavish

sbj said:


> I think that I have already read something about NiMh batteries that they show measurably less usable capacity one day after charging, like directly after charging.
> 
> Up until now I have assumed the warming of the NiMh batteries at the end of the charge as a possible reason for a possibly necessary cooling phase.
> But I basically leave out these breaks.



Sorry, I certainly should have mentioned I was talking about lithium 18650’s. Read it’s bad to charge a “hot” battery, but I monitored my battery temperatures via the charger, and rarely get close to 90f. I assume that’s just warm for 18650’s. I’m just looking to save some time on programs like REFRESH, or a C-D-C CYCLE, with the chargers default on some of these programs, there is a 30 minute rest after a charge cycle, and 60 minutes after a discharge cycle, that’s an additional 90 minutes. Now if those REST period times are NEEDED, then I’ll leave those default times. Thanks!


----------



## sbj

I don't see any problems with Lion batteries. It is positive if they are warm to the touch when charging or discharging. The internal resistance drops.

When charging with a maximum of 0.6C, I could barely notice any noticeable warming up until now. It can look different when discharging at high current. 

When the MC3000 discharges four Li batteries with 1A each, it must dissipate more than 15 watts of heat. In the thermal image from HKJ's test, however, you can see that the work of the fan means that the cells do not exceed 40 degrees Celsius. 
A cooling break would then be appropriate for the charger itself.


----------



## scav

I have problem with skyrc mc3000 bluetooth connection. 
It works well from skyrc mc3000 android app and the device is recognized. But when I leave the charger for long time with some program started (for example night charging) after that time I cannot connect anymore to skyrc charger. It appears like that skyrc is not visible on bluetooth anymore. Only SkyRC MC3000 poweroff reset helps. I have latest firmware 1.15. Using Samsung S10 Android 10 smartphone. Does anyone knows some working solution to this bug ?


----------



## Dascombe

scav said:


> I have problem with skyrc mc3000 bluetooth connection.
> It works well from skyrc mc3000 android app and the device is recognized. But when I leave the charger for long time with some program started (for example night charging) after that time I cannot connect anymore to skyrc charger. It appears like that skyrc is not visible on bluetooth anymore. Only SkyRC MC3000 poweroff reset helps. I have latest firmware 1.15. Using Samsung S10 Android 10 smartphone. Does anyone knows some working solution to this bug ?



Same thing happens to me all the time; it's frustrating. Unfortunately I haven't found a way around it other than to leave my phone close to the charger when a program is running. It seems to happen when you start a program and then go out of range and upon coming back, it won't initiate the BT connection. Doesn't happen all the time which makes it even more frustrating.

The BT connection on this charger is terribly implemented anyway; instead of the charger broadcasting its BT signal, it's the app that triggers the charger to turn on the BT radio to begin broadcasting. Just


----------



## NiOOH

Something to address in the future:
With system sound and the screensaver enabled, this thing produces loud beeps every 10-15 seconds. This drives me crazy! Why on Earth they made it like this? I haven't found a way around this, you should either disable the screensaver or the system sounds.


----------



## panasonicst60

New to the forum! Hello everyone! 

I just got this MC3000 charger in today. I an trying to charge my Eneloop AA/AApro/AAA/AAApro. What's the best setting I should charge them? The last thing I want to do is overcharge them. I tried the standard settings in advance using the preset Eneloop but ONLY modifying the speed of charge to around 0.35-0.5a. I was seeing the voltage climb more then 1.51 and I was a bit worried so I stop it myself.

When I tried in dummy mode all of my eneloop stopped charging at 1.48v. I also tried fully charged, fresh off the charger of the standard oem Panasonic charger and it measures 1.48v give of take a few .01.


----------



## BVH

I use 1.0 Amp for AA and .5 Amp for AAA. Low rates can sometimes cause a missed termination.


----------



## panasonicst60

BVH said:


> I use 1.0 Amp for AA and .5 Amp for AAA. Low rates can sometimes cause a missed termination.



I tried .4 for aaa and .66 for aa and it seem to work fine now. I also changed the delta peak to 0. Now the mc3000 terminates the charge roughly at 1.56 volts. Seems good?


----------



## hc900

BVH said:


> I use 1.0 Amp for AA and .5 Amp for AAA. Low rates can sometimes cause a missed termination.



Using the low recharging connrents, you risk falling on the recharging timer: try increasing the timer time from the App


----------



## hc900

panasonicst60 said:


> New to the forum! Hello everyone!
> 
> I just got this MC3000 charger in today. I an trying to charge my Eneloop AA/AApro/AAA/AAApro. What's the best setting I should charge them? The last thing I want to do is overcharge them. I tried the standard settings in advance using the preset Eneloop but ONLY modifying the speed of charge to around 0.35-0.5a. I was seeing the voltage climb more then 1.51 and I was a bit worried so I stop it myself.
> 
> When I tried in dummy mode all of my eneloop stopped charging at 1.48v. I also tried fully charged, fresh off the charger of the standard oem Panasonic charger and it measures 1.48v give of take a few .01.


From the App you can increase the Voltage parameter over 1.48 Volt.
Better still to have more safety with the Eneloop, bring the parameter -Delta V to 2mV or 4mV


----------



## panasonicst60

hc900 said:


> From the App you can increase the Voltage parameter over 1.48 Volt.
> Better still to have more safety with the Eneloop, bring the parameter -Delta V to 2mV or 4mV



I adjusted the delta v to 0.


----------



## NiOOH

panasonicst60 said:


> New to the forum! Hello everyone!
> 
> I just got this MC3000 charger in today. I an trying to charge my Eneloop AA/AApro/AAA/AAApro. What's the best setting I should charge them? The last thing I want to do is overcharge them. I tried the standard settings in advance using the preset Eneloop but ONLY modifying the speed of charge to around 0.35-0.5a. I was seeing the voltage climb more then 1.51 and I was a bit worried so I stop it myself.
> 
> When I tried in dummy mode all of my eneloop stopped charging at 1.48v. I also tried fully charged, fresh off the charger of the standard oem Panasonic charger and it measures 1.48v give of take a few .01.



Do not use such low charging currents, since the charger may not be able to detect the end of charge. 
The best thing is to use 0.5 C ( 1 A for standard AA, 0.4 A for standard AAA) with 0 dV termination, backed up by temperature cut off at about 42-45 C and a timer set to 150-160 min. Leave max U at 1.65 V. This is not a reliable termination criterion, and you don't need it as a backup.


----------



## panasonicst60

NiOOH said:


> Do not use such low charging currents, since the charger may not be able to detect the end of charge.
> The best thing is to use 0.5 C ( 1 A for standard AA, 0.4 A for standard AAA) with 0 dV termination, backed up by temperature cut off at about 42-45 C and a timer set to 150-160 min. Leave max U at 1.65 V. This is not a reliable termination criterion, and you don't need it as a backup.



I can't respond fast enough as I am new. My replies are getting delayed for a few days. I have been using about 0.7A for AA and .4A with 0 dv and it's been working great.


----------



## NiOOH

0.7 A may be a bit too low for AA, especially for Eneloop Pro. This may cause missed termination, or in the case of 0 dV, an early one. I suggest you stick to the 0.5 C rule, i.e. the charging current for Eneloops should be half of their rated capacity. Terminating with 0 dV doesn't overcharge the cells, so there is no benefit to decrease the charging current below 0.5 C. Observe the charging time (for fully discharged cells) and set the timer cutoff to something like 120 % of that. Also observe the end of charge temperatures. Mind that it is 1-1.5 degrees higher for the inside slots (slots 2 and 3). Set the temperature cutoff to 4-5 degrees C higher than the maximum observed temperature. It should be around 42-45 degrees C. You may need to correct this in the summer, if the ambient temperature is significantly higher than now. 
This way, you'll have about the perfect charging program for Eneloops or any other NiMH.


----------



## panasonicst60

NiOOH said:


> 0.7 A may be a bit too low for AA, especially for Eneloop Pro. This may cause missed termination, or in the case of 0 dV, an early one. I suggest you stick to the 0.5 C rule, i.e. the charging current for Eneloops should be half of their rated capacity. Terminating with 0 dV doesn't overcharge the cells, so there is no benefit to decrease the charging current below 0.5 C. Observe the charging time (for fully discharged cells) and set the timer cutoff to something like 120 % of that. Also observe the end of charge temperatures. Mind that it is 1-1.5 degrees higher for the inside slots (slots 2 and 3). Set the temperature cutoff to 4-5 degrees C higher than the maximum observed temperature. It should be around 42-45 degrees C. You may need to correct this in the summer, if the ambient temperature is significantly higher than now.
> This way, you'll have about the perfect charging program for Eneloops or any other NiMH.



What does the "C" stand for as in 0.5 C? I'm new to all this..So the aa pro is rated for 2500mah I should change at 1.25 a? Is that what it means?


----------



## NiOOH

C stands for capacity, in this case the nominal capacity of the cells. 0.5 C means that you should charge with a current equal to half of the rated capacity, or 1.2-1.25 A for Eneloop Pro AA.


----------



## panasonicst60

NiOOH said:


> C stands for capacity, in this case the nominal capacity of the cells. 0.5 C means that you should charge with a current equal to half of the rated capacity, or 1.2-1.25 A for Eneloop Pro AA.



Got it. Thank you! Can you explain what exactly does the Dv do to affect the charging?


----------



## NiOOH

-dV or negative delta V, or -dV/dt in this context, stands for the voltage drop (decrease of voltage) NiMH batteries exhibit when they enter overcharge. When NiMH batteries are fully charged, they cannot absorb more energy and start to heat rapidly, the extra energy being dissipated as heat. The increased temperature causes decrease of internal resistance and the voltage decreases as a result. This is the so called negative dV or -dV. Sadly, most chargers use this method to terminate the charge of NiMH, thus overcharging the batteries, how much, depends on the value of the -dV the charger is capable of measuring before terminating the charge. Typical values are 10-15 mV for cheaper chargers.
The proper method of charging NiMH batteries is 0 dV, i.e. the voltage plateau that occurs just before the voltage drop, or just before the batteries enter overcharge. If implemented properly, this is the only method for charging NiMH that ensures full charging without overcharge and overheating at charging currents 0.5-1 C.


----------



## panasonicst60

NiOOH said:


> -dV or negative delta V, or -dV/dt in this context, stands for the voltage drop (decrease of voltage) NiMH batteries exhibit when they enter overcharge. When NiMH batteries are fully charged, they cannot absorb more energy and start to heat rapidly, the extra energy being dissipated as heat. The increased temperature causes decrease of internal resistance and the voltage decreases as a result. This is the so called negative dV or -dV. Sadly, most chargers use this method to terminate the charge of NiMH, thus overcharging the batteries, how much, depends on the value of the -dV the charger is capable of measuring before terminating the charge. Typical values are 10-15 mV for cheaper chargers.
> The proper method of charging NiMH batteries is 0 dV, i.e. the voltage plateau that occurs just before the voltage drop, or just before the batteries enter overcharge. If implemented properly, this is the only method for charging NiMH that ensures full charging without overcharge and overheating at charging currents 0.5-1 C.



Great explanation. Crystal clear. Much appreciated!!


----------



## sim_v

NiOOH said:


> The increased temperature causes decrease of internal resistance and the voltage decreases as a result.


The increased temperature causes *increase *of internal resistance and the voltage decreases as a result.
More resistance, less voltage ?


----------



## NiOOH

sim_v said:


> The increased temperature causes *increase *of internal resistance and the voltage decreases as a result.
> More resistance, less voltage ?




Nope. Batteries do not behave as simple metal conductors, i.e. increasing resistance with temperature. Batteries are electrochemical devices and their electrical behavior depends on the rate of chemical reactions inside. And these reactions accelerate with temperature, leading to a *decrease* of internal resistance. For the same reason, IR increases at low temperatures. This is the well known deterioration of battery performance in cold weather. 
Actually, you do not have to believe me or even the books. You can measure it yourself if you have the equipment.

It is exactly this decrease of internal resistance that causes the voltage drop upon charge. It is a consequence of the Ohm's law under constant current conditions.


----------



## sim_v

thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Gaudi

Hi all, I am trying to figure out if what I propose is posible.
I usually use my SkyRC MC3000 charger to recondition NiMh and LiIon batteries.
I do usually test old cells that have a relatively high internal resistance, and have found that after some charge-discharge cycles this value goes down.


Is it possible to have the charger test IR automatically test after each cycle (either charge or discharge, or both), so I can keep track of its evolution.
The charger already stores some cycle information, as the capacity, so it should not represent an issue.


Also, using DEX the resistance is shown as constant for the whole program, so testing and updating the value should be simple (it will change for each stage/cycle).


I was unable to find such feature in current firmware v1.15.

If it is not implemented, I recall that at some point there were members who had contact with SkyRC, so it could be a feature request.

What do you think?


Thank you!


----------



## NiOOH

IR is measured in the beginning of the program. You can check it during or after the end of the program. It is not measured continuously, it is not possible with this charger. 
Also, keep in mind that the way the IR is measured in the MC3000 does not lead to very reproducible results. I wouldn't trust it to track cell wear.


----------



## Gaudi

NiOOH said:


> IR is measured in the beginning of the program. You can check it during or after the end of the program. It is not measured continuously, it is not possible with this charger.
> Also, keep in mind that the way the IR is measured in the MC3000 does not lead to very reproducible results. I wouldn't trust it to track cell wear.



Thank you for your reply. I am aware of the limitations of the information, and on how/when the charger measures the value. 
I do not intend to do continuous measuring, but rather test after each cycle, that is, if a do a 10 cycle C-D, I would like to test a single value after Charging, then after Discharging, and so on, for a total of 20 values.


----------



## NiOOH

If you wanna do that, you should cycle manually, i.e. execute the programs separately and record the data yourself. AFAIK, there is no other way to do it.


----------



## Gaudi

NiOOH said:


> If you wanna do that, you should cycle manually, i.e. execute the programs separately and record the data yourself. AFAIK, there is no other way to do it.



Thank you, that is what I thought. 
It should be a feature request then. 

Regards


----------



## wus

Gaudi said:


> I usually use my SkyRC MC3000 charger to recondition NiMh and LiIon batteries.


Hello Gaudi, does this really help? Which programm & parameters do you use to recondition NiMH cells?

Reason why I ask:
I have older and newer AAA and AA eneloops and EBL USB chargers that I take along on trips to remote areas without electricity, where I recharge from a somewhat bigger USB power bank. These EBL chargers refuse to recharge some of the older eneloops for their increased internal resistance.

However, my older Camelion charger, and also the MC3000, recharge these same cells without any issue, and they also work well in the devices that I power with them. 

I hope after the reconditioning - with your parameters  - I can recharge these older eneloops also with the EBL USB chargers.


----------



## Gaudi

wus said:


> Hello Gaudi, does this really help? Which programm & parameters do you use to recondition NiMH cells?
> 
> Reason why I ask:
> I have older and newer AAA and AA eneloops and EBL USB chargers that I take along on trips to remote areas without electricity, where I recharge from a somewhat bigger USB power bank. These EBL chargers refuse to recharge some of the older eneloops for their increased internal resistance.
> 
> However, my older Camelion charger, and also the MC3000, recharge these same cells without any issue, and they also work well in the devices that I power with them.
> 
> I hope after the reconditioning - with your parameters  - I can recharge these older eneloops also with the EBL USB chargers.



Hi, I by no means mean to establish a procedure to fix worn batteries. Once they show high internal resistance and they do not hold good charge any longer, they are bound to be disposed.
I have a couple of Siemens Gigaset DECT phones (C430H, C610H), and they seem to trash eneloops in as short as 3-4 months, so it looks that the handset internal charger is a piece of crap (at least for LSD batteries like Eneloop).

Having said that, I have managed to bring back to usable life in low demanding applications (remote controls, kid toys, low power led lights). Many of them reduced their internal resistance from >2000 mOhm to around 200-400 mOhm (some mention that MC3000 is not a reliable way to measure such variable).

Program I have used is:


> BATT TYPE: Eneloop
> MODE: Refresh
> MODEL: Std AAA
> C.CURRENT: 0.40A
> D.CURRENT: -0.10A
> C.RESTING: 30min
> D.RESTING: 60min
> CYCLE COUNT: 5
> CYCLE MODE: C>D>C
> TARGET VOLT: 1.65V
> DELTA PEAK: 3mV
> TRICKLE C.: OFF
> TRICKLE TIME: OFF
> RESTART VOLT: OFF
> D.REDUCE: OFF
> CUT VOLT: 0.90V
> CUT TEMP: 45°C
> CUT TIME: OFF



Please observe that the cut off voltage for discharging is 0.9V, which may be low for some people. I have also noticed in the continuous chart (Data Explorer) that the capacity consistently improved after each cycle.

And this is the reason why I would like the charger to test for Internal Resistance after each cycle, to see if it improves or not: without touching the battery or switching bays, even if the measure is not accurate, the shown trend could be useful. I can set a single refresh cycle, and retest anfterwards, but it is cumbersome and not unattended.

Hope it helps.


----------



## jabz

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Hi so I replaced my 2nd gen MC3000 and now using a dual fan version since 2019.
I had a closer look at the terminal contacts and wondering if the following is normal, is the stainless steel coming off or is something corroding? Can it be cleaned? With what?







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gaudi

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



jabz said:


> Hi so I replaced my 2nd gen MC3000 and now using a dual fan version since 2019.
> I had a closer look at the terminal contacts and wondering if the following is normal, is the stainless steel coming off or is something corroding? Can it be cleaned? With what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Mine is like new, and it is also ca. 2018. 
Do you use/store your unit in a humid place?
Any sort of fumes?
Have you charged defective batteries that may have leaked?
Try using WD40 with a small brush and a paper towel to clean.


----------



## wus

The photo looks indeed as if the metal is corroded, but I think this impression might also be caused (or emphasized) by making the photo using a wrong white balance. 

On my unit it looks like this: (Photo made with white balance set hard to daylight, using a daylight white balanced strobe:






My MC3000 is about the same age as yours. I did not need to clean its contacts so far. 

If I need to clean cell tops, I use a fiberglass pen. Should I ever need to clean the charger´s contacts, I will probably use this pen, too, although I would then hold the unit upside down, so that the scratched off (electrically conductive) dust can't fall into it. 





@Gaudi - thanks for the ...


Gaudi said:


> Program I have used



We have some DECT phones, too, with the same problem. And it is by no means limited to LSD cells - I tried with "classic" NIMHs as well.


----------



## NiOOH

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



Gaudi said:


> Mine is like new, and it is also ca. 2018.
> Do you use/store your unit in a humid place?
> Any sort of fumes?
> Have you charged defective batteries that may have leaked?
> Try using WD40 with a small brush and a paper towel to clean.




It looks like corrosion indeed. Have you had cells venting during operation? 
WD40 is not ideal in this case IMO, since it leaves a residue that evaporates very slowly. Try isopropanol (sometimes called rubbing alcohol) with some cotton buds. Do not spray any liquid directly on the contacts, since the liquid can get inside the unit.


----------



## EdoNork

Hi,

I have just ended reading all of the huge thread. Yes, I know...
About 4000 messages ago I purchased the MC3000 that has arrived 3 hours ago, perfect timing with the end of my lectures.
That you all for the knowledge shared here.

Hummm, flimsy buttons...


----------



## EdoNork

Some question I have not managed to find answer searching the forum:

1- If I send a new program to the MC3000 with the PC software, can I store it in a memory location in the device afterwards?

2- In the PC software, can I copy programs from one channel to others?

3- Using DEX, can I "develop" a program in it and send to the charger? I can only load one from the charger, rename, and send to the other channels, but I can't modify parameters.

4- Can I start and stop the charger from within DEX?

TIA.


----------



## EdoNork

EdoNork said:


> Some question I have not managed to find answer searching the forum:
> 
> 1- If I send a new program to the MC3000 with the PC software, can I store it in a memory location in the device afterwards?
> 
> 2- In the PC software, can I copy programs from one channel to others?
> 
> 3- Using DEX, can I "develop" a program in it and send to the charger? I can only load one from the charger, rename, and send to the other channels, but I can't modify parameters.
> 
> 4- Can I start and stop the charger from within DEX?
> 
> TIA.



ANSWERS:

1- NO.

2- NO.

3- NO.

4- NO. It seems some old versions of DEX had this functionality but it was removed afterwards.


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Havent used dex for god knows how long, but i do remember being able to start/stop the charger from within it. Upon checking on setup files i have left from that time, i have versions 3.2.5, 3.2.6, 3.2.8 and 3.3.0. So one of those(probably all) should have the ability. Try looking for one of those versions, or if you cant find them i can upload them somewhere for you.


----------



## EdoNork

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

I will try them.
Why don't you use DEX anymore?


----------



## DeJaVu

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

Used to use it to get detailed discharge curves, but now i have no need for that.


----------



## NiOOH

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



DeJaVu said:


> Used to use it to get detailed discharge curves, but now i have no need for that.



Same here. Used to use DEX when I first got the MC3000. I was interested to get all the information. Nowadays, I just can't be bothered to connect a laptop to the charger every time.


----------



## EdoNork

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*

So you are back to dummy mode... :devil:


----------



## NiOOH

*Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*



EdoNork said:


> So you are back to dummy mode... :devil:



Nope, I just use customized programs stored in the charger. You don't need DEX or any other software to use it to full potential.


----------



## Thoraldus

Just ordered my MC3000, will be here tomorrow. It looks like no other company has attempted to enter this "high function charger market in the last 6 years. Kudos to Sky RC for hanging in there. I haven't read this entire thread (yet) but hope to attempt that soon. My current understanding is the latest revisions for this puppy are:

Firmware: 1.15
Hardware: 2.2

A quick question, has the author of the English User Manual ever been identified? A delicious sense of humor displayed there! ;-)

Rick Stirling
E.E., Ham, Flashlight Collector, Photographer & Web Site Designer (Not necessarily in that order)


----------



## -Archie-

It's a nice charger indeed, and I don't know any serious competitor so far. Like any other device from that part of the world, it have some design flaws - but they're relatively easy to fix. As for Data Explorer - I use it when detailed information about the cells is required, but for most jobs, the charger alone is enough. My only desire about DEX would be, the ability to change connection method: MC3000 bluetooth module is pretty much garbage, and I'd prefer to change it to e.g. HC-05 or the like, but AFAIK Data Explorer does not currently allow to use serial communication for MC3000...


----------



## mactavish

> A quick question, has the author of the English User Manual ever been identified? A delicious sense of humor displayed there! ;-)
> 
> Rick Stirling



Perhaps, the first poster in this thread.....


----------



## Thoraldus

Thoraldus said:


> Just ordered my MC3000, will be here tomorrow. It looks like no other company has attempted to enter this "high function charger market in the last 6 years. Kudos to Sky RC for hanging in there. I haven't read this entire thread (yet) but hope to attempt that soon. My current understanding is the latest revisions for this puppy are:
> 
> Firmware: 1.15
> Hardware: 2.2
> 
> A quick question, has the author of the English User Manual ever been identified? A delicious sense of humor displayed there! ;-)
> 
> Rick Stirling
> E.E., Ham, Flashlight Collector, Photographer & Web Site Designer (Not necessarily in that order)



MC3000 arrived. Love it! It does everything I need it to do.

Observation: There are basically two ways to insert a battery into the MC3000:

1. Use the battery to push the negative slide terminal back and force/push the anode in place

2. Use your finger to pull back the negative terminal, drop battery in place and then release negative terminal. 

Over time I think method 1 will lead to damage of the MC3000 and/or the batteries. I will stick with method 2. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Stirling
E.E., Ham, Flashlight Collector, Photographer & Web Site Designer (Not necessarily in that order)


----------



## -Archie-

Thoraldus said:


> Over time I think method 1 will lead to damage of the MC3000 and/or the batteries.


Are you sure negative contact knows whether it was pulled by finger or by battery?


----------



## skid00skid00

-Archie- said:


> Are you sure negative contact knows whether it was pulled by finger or by battery?



With 21700 and 26650 batteries, the negative terminal can be bent by the battery, which contacts the terminal at the top of the terminal.

By using a finger, you can pull the terminal back from the bottom of the terminal, lessening the bending force on the terminal.

A healthy dose of DeoxIT on the sliding surfaces also helps!


----------



## Thoraldus

-Archie- said:


> Are you sure negative contact knows whether it was pulled by finger or by battery?



I guess it depends on how much metal you scrape/gouge out over time. ;-)


----------



## -Archie-

skid00skid00 said:


> By using a finger, you can pull the terminal back from the bottom of the terminal, lessening the bending force on the terminal.


Half-second reduction of bending force, followed by several hours of spring-loaded state?


----------



## -Archie-

Thoraldus said:


> I guess it depends on how much metal you scrape/gouge out over time. ;-)



I beliveve it's thick enough to outlast the rest of charger's components.


----------



## Thoraldus

-Archie- said:


> I believe it's thick enough to outlast the rest of charger's components.



Sure, if it were solid metal, but from the images I've seen above it appears to be plated. I could be wrong, but some of those images showing wear/corrosion have me wondering.


----------



## Thoraldus

skid00skid00 said:


> With 21700 and 26650 batteries, the negative terminal can be bent by the battery, which contacts the terminal at the top of the terminal.
> 
> By using a finger, you can pull the terminal back from the bottom of the terminal, lessening the bending force on the terminal.
> 
> A healthy dose of DeoxIT on the sliding surfaces also helps!



Yes, I noticed that today when charging some 26650's


----------



## mactavish

I use my fingers as a tool, instead of the battery, to pull the sliders. Helps protect the battery wraps a bit. Not specific to this charger, but all the ones with sliders. I too ended up using DeOxit Gold as a slider lube.


----------



## skid00skid00

-Archie- said:


> Half-second reduction of bending force, followed by several hours of spring-loaded state?



Some people just like to argue, others have to have the last word, and some people over/underthink things.

Static forces are *always* less than dynamic. In the case of this charger, there's a very large difference.


----------



## -Archie-

skid00skid00 said:


> Some people just like to argue, others have to have the last word, and some people over/underthink things.


Yes, I see.


----------



## Thoraldus

mactavish said:


> I use my fingers as a tool, instead of the battery, to pull the sliders. Helps protect the battery wraps a bit. Not specific to this charger, but all the ones with sliders. I too ended up using DeOxit Gold as a slider lube.



If I remember correctly from a tear-down video of the MC3000, the slider mechanism is purely mechanical in function. The circuit connection is a thick wire soldered to the slider. (see image below - black wires) Given that I think I will use a Silicone Grease lubricant to remove the friction in the sliders.


----------



## -Archie-

Silicone grease is typically considered not optimal for metal-metal friction pairs, but still can be used. Are you sure factory-supplied grease is not sufficient? In my case, there's no need to add or replace it.


----------



## Thoraldus

mactavish said:


> I use my fingers as a tool, instead of the battery, to pull the sliders. Helps protect the battery wraps a bit. Not specific to this charger, but all the ones with sliders. I too ended up using DeOxit Gold as a slider lube.





-Archie- said:


> Silicone grease is typically considered not optimal for metal-metal friction pairs, but still can be used. Are you sure factory-supplied grease is not sufficient? In my case, there's no need to add or replace it.



Yes, White Lithium might be better. Unfortunately the factory must have run out of lubricant when my MC3000 was manufactured, the sliders are dry as a bone. ;-(


----------



## -Archie-

That's interesting! Seems like quality control failure to me. Of course you'll need to lubricate it then.


----------



## Thoraldus

mactavish said:


> I use my fingers as a tool, instead of the battery, to pull the sliders. Helps protect the battery wraps a bit. Not specific to this charger, but all the ones with sliders. I too ended up using DeOxit Gold as a slider lube.





-Archie- said:


> That's interesting! Seems like quality control failure to me. Of course you'll need to lubricate it then.



I sent off a note to SKYRC asking what they recommend and if white lithium grease is OK. ;-)


----------



## mactavish

I asked the LUBE question awhile ago and there was some good responses. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ger-analyzer&p=5429442&viewfull=1#post5429442


----------



## Thoraldus

mactavish said:


> I use my fingers as a tool, instead of the battery, to pull the sliders. Helps protect the battery wraps a bit. Not specific to this charger, but all the ones with sliders. I too ended up using DeOxit Gold as a slider lube.





mactavish said:


> I asked the LUBE question awhile ago and there was some good responses.
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ger-analyzer&p=5429442&viewfull=1#post5429442



Yes, I read that and there seemed to be a misconception about how the negative terminal is connected to the circuit board. It does not connect through the supporting rail so any lubricant will not affect any IR measurements or charge/discharge current. Thankfully! ;-) Using DeoxIT on the slider rail for example is not going to improve any electrical characteristics of the charger. ;-)


----------



## -Archie-

Thoraldus said:


> Yes, I read that and there seemed to be a misconception about how the negative terminal is connected to the circuit board. It does not connect through the supporting rail so any lubricant will not affect any IR measurements or charge/discharge current. Thankfully! ;-)


Wait, are you certain about that? Maybe they've updated the hardware, but in my sample (bought shortly after initial release), the wires are soldered to the rails. It was one of reasons for me to do relatively heavy modding, including addition of the wires to bypass that unstable sliding contacts...


----------



## skid00skid00

Thoraldus said:


> If I remember correctly from a tear-down video of the MC3000, the slider mechanism is purely mechanical in function. The circuit connection is a thick wire soldered to the slider. (see image below - black wires) Given that I think I will use a Silicone Grease lubricant to remove the friction in the sliders.



I had mine apart last week, after my instant pot spewed bean soup all over it. My sliding, negative terminal did not have a wire attached. The circuit was completed thru the stationary rail that the slider contacts. I was concerned that the DeoxIT would affect amperage, but I got full programmed amperage into a 21700 and a 26500.


----------



## mactavish

Thoraldus said:


> Yes, I read that and there seemed to be a misconception about how the negative terminal is connected to the circuit board. It does not connect through the supporting rail so any lubricant will not affect any IR measurements or charge/discharge current. Thankfully! ;-) Using DeoxIT on the slider rail for example is not going to improve any electrical characteristics of the charger. ;-)



I was just looking to use a “proper” lube so my slides would move more easily. Not looking to “improve”, but make sure the lube was not going to cause a problem. DeOxit seems the best choice of the 3 I listed, as I have them.


----------



## -Archie-

*Thoraldus*, I've viewed the previous page carefully: the picture you've attached explicitly shows the wires soldered to the rails. What makes you believe there's a version of MC3000 with different design?


----------



## Schermann

Great review and thread!


----------



## -Archie-

I'd like to share my modification of MC3000: maybe it will be useful for some users. 







Main problem was overheating: simultaneous testing of four 18650 cells at 1A discharge rate was impossible. I've added two 30mm Sunon fans to the rear wall, one of them mounted in opposite direction - so they make transient air flow.






They're controlled by thermal switch circuit, with sensor attached to the radiator: as soon as its temperature exceed ~35°C the fans are actuated. Now I can use all four slots without any problems.

Unstable sliding contacts fixed by bypass wires: extra-soft silicone cables are attached to the negative terminals:






Common problem of fragile plastic pins for spring mount resolved by using M2.5 screws instead. Cross-shaped heads successfully replace circled + signs BTW.  Screw ends are going through PCB and fixed with Nyloc nuts to prevent loosening:






Turned out it's handy to insulate screw heads (e.g. with Kapton tape), as accidental contact with positive cell terminal will destroy the spring.

After assembling, thermal sensor holes filled with thermal paste, and narrow strips of thermal-conductive silicone affixed to the metal bands, to improve heat transfer:






Also, I've added sockets for 1st. slot to connect any non-round cells, and MiniDIN-6 socket to connect ST-Link for easy programming/debugging without using USB method:


----------



## marco.weiss

WOW!


----------



## tjh

Farewell.

My first gen MC3000 had it's first post snap yesterday. I opened it up and it was tiny bits of plastic everywhere.

Alas. I threw it in the rubbish.

I'll get another one one-day, it was a superb charger and I'll miss it.


----------



## -Archie-

Throw away $100 charger because of snapped pin?!? Unbelievable...


----------



## tjh

-Archie- said:


> Throw away $100 charger because of snapped pin?!? Unbelievable...


Why? I couldn't put it back together. It was in pieces, it was very broken (so many little bits of broken plastic - it had obviously degraded badly) and I've got a Dragon VP4 Plus that I use anyway.

It's a shame, but I wasn't going to spend hours putting a broken piece of kit back together.


----------



## -Archie-

Ok, it's not my business of course - just looks illogical to me. But I do agree the plastic used for MC3000 case is a garbage.


----------



## Dascombe

-Archie- said:


> I'd like to share my modification of MC3000: maybe it will be useful for some users.
> 
> 
> Unstable sliding contacts fixed by bypass wires: extra-soft silicone cables are attached to the negative terminals:
> 
> View attachment 15282



Very nice work Archie!

What's your thoughts on the wire bypass mod? Do you find it makes much of a difference with IR measurements?


----------



## -Archie-

Thank you!
Main intention was, to minimize voltage errors on discharge. IR measurement in MC3000 is a joke anyway: four-wire scheme is needed to do it properly. But after modding, the deviation of displayed IR values on several subsequent "measurements" was greatly reduced as well, as expected.


----------



## radellaf

Nice mod! Bit of work, but if I ever have to open it up to repair a spring post maybe I'll do that.

The IR measurement is, eh, good enough to tell if your cells are starting to get old. I don't trust 50 vs 100, but if it starts saying my eneloop is 200+ then I know the Zebralight SC53 isn't going to like them. If I want to evaluate 18650 for if they're counterfeit or if my 2 y.o. cell can handle ridiculous high currents, then, yeah, MC3000 isn't great. I got a high reading on an old 14500 (like 200-300?) and was convinced to buy some new ones.


----------



## -Archie-

radellaf said:


> Nice mod! Bit of work, but if I ever have to open it up to repair a spring post maybe I'll do that.


Thanks!


radellaf said:


> The IR measurement is, eh, good enough to tell if your cells are starting to get old.


Or it's time to clean the terminals, or to check with more serious tool...

Example from my records: five LG B1 cells (datasheet claims ≤ 70 mΩ) checked with 4-wire Kelvin circuit and with unmodified MC3000:

59.5 == 191
59.2 == 337
58.2 == 198
58.4 == 249
58.3 == 138

It's nice to have that data on MC3000 display, but when it looks incorrect - don't relay on them to make the decision to discard the cell in question: it's better to double-check.


----------



## STIXXXXX

Hi, I´m reading this thread since the beginning, and love the MC3000. Had all hardware versions and the last one shows a weird behaviour:
When inserting 4 cells into the slots, all voltages are nearly the same, but when charging starts, the first slot voltage increases way faster than the other ones. The cell will be charged but takes longer and does only take around 90% of charge.
LiIon or Nimh doesnt make a difference.
Some ideas?
Just ordered the EBL TC-X Pro, because I like the touchscreen, but I miss 1A discharge and presets.


----------



## -Archie-

STIXXXXX said:


> the first slot voltage increases way faster than the other ones. The cell will be charged but takes longer


Seems contradicting to me.


----------



## STIXXXXX

-Archie- said:


> Seems contradicting to me.


That was, what I saw with LiIon batteries. Voltage increased very fast, so that the current was reduced earlier -> longer charging..


----------



## panasonicst60

Had a problem with my mc3000 earlier today. When I put in four enoloop aaa batteries to charge, two of them started charging, but the other two said no battery message. I switched out the slots and it still didn't work. I changed them for a few minutes on the oem Panasonic charger then placed them back into the mc3000 and then it was recognized with a battery and charged without further issues. How can I fix this issue. Was it drain so low that the mc3000 didn't detect a battery?


----------



## Vasilije

panasonicst60 said:


> Had a problem with my mc3000 earlier today. When I put in four enoloop aaa batteries to charge, two of them started charging, but the other two said no battery message. I switched out the slots and it still didn't work. I changed them for a few minutes on the oem Panasonic charger then placed them back into the mc3000 and then it was recognized with a battery and charged without further issues. How can I fix this issue. Was it drain so low that the mc3000 didn't detect a battery?


Holding the slot button in which the battery does not have enough voltage forces the charging so that the charger accepts it and allows it to start a normal charging cycle.


----------



## sbj

It could have been due to a bad contact on the minus side?

With the small diameter of the AAA batteries, it can easily happen that the negative pole of the battery does not make proper contact with the sliding contact of the charger.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/t...—-mc3000-charger-analyzer.389700/post-4813931

When inserting AAA batteries, I have got used to lifting the minus side of the battery slightly after inserting it.


----------



## panasonicst60

sbj said:


> It could have been due to a bad contact on the minus side?
> 
> With the small diameter of the AAA batteries, it can easily happen that the negative pole of the battery does not make proper contact with the sliding contact of the charger.
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/skyrc-—-ifa-2014-—-mc3000-charger-analyzer.389700/post-4813931
> 
> When inserting AAA batteries, I have got used to lifting the minus side of the battery slightly after inserting it.


No I verified it's not the reason. It charges up without any issues now that the battery is not low.


----------



## wus

STIXXXXX said:


> When inserting 4 cells into the slots, all voltages are nearly the same, but when charging starts, the first slot voltage increases way faster than the other ones. The cell will be charged but takes longer and does only take around 90% of charge.
> LiIon or Nimh doesnt make a difference.
> Some ideas?


My guess: channel 1 has some unwanted resistance in its path. Did you clean the contacts?


----------



## wus

STIXXXXX said:


> When inserting 4 cells into the slots, all voltages are nearly the same, but when charging starts, the first slot voltage increases way faster than the other ones. The cell will be charged but takes longer and does only take around 90% of charge.
> LiIon or Nimh doesnt make a difference.
> Some ideas?


My guess: channel 1 has some unwanted resistance in its path.


----------



## Wild4fire

Hi everybody,

today I tried to use my MC3000 for the first time under Windows 11. The v1.05 charging software regularly seems to lock up, it just freezes and doesn't respond to anything anymore. Anyone else experiencing this issue too?

-- Update: scratch that. I discovered the cause... the USB connection was sometimes dropping and the charging software really doesn't like that. I replaced the USB cable and I'll try and see how it goes now.

-- Update #2: yup, it was the USB cable. I've been charging several batteries for the last few days and I've had zero issues since I've replaced the cable.


----------



## mactavish

12-15-2021:
MC3000 IOS APP UPDATED TO V1.5.8

*The only note:

“Add the sorting function for the programs”

No idea what this does?


----------



## skid00skid00

I guess the programs are the settings you've input for each battery type. Can probably sort on voltage|capacity|rate|etc.


----------



## linc90

The update simply allows you to to drag your programs anywhere you want on the list by using the sort button in top left corner. You then use the red dash beside each program to drag them up or down and press done when you are finished. Done button is in the same spot as sort button.


----------



## naturelle

Hey guys!

Some short question:
I want to charge Eneloops.

What's the difference if I use NiMH charging program or Eneloop charging program?

Additional (apart the MC3000): are there any differences in charging strategies of NiMH and Eneloop? Can I always charge Eneloops with chargers that are only capable of charging NiMH and do not have any extra program for Eneloop?


----------



## sbj

There is no difference between NiMh and Eneloop charging programs. You can charge the Eneloop with any NiMh charger.


----------



## naturelle

Ok, thanks! But why do some chargers (the SkyRC MC3000, the ISDT N8 e.g.) have an extra program for Eneloop?


----------



## sbj

Probably purely for marketing reasons, like this: "We have the right charger for your valuable Eneloop batteries."


----------



## -Archie-

Exactly: just marketing buzz. Just ignore it.


----------



## Geppo

-Archie- said:


> Exactly: just marketing buzz. Just ignore it.


I don't think so. Although the base technology is the same, if you try to charge a different brand of NiMH batteries using the preset values for Eneloop you risk to overcharge (and damage) your batteries. In my experience dV=-3mV works only with Eneloop batteries (in perfect conditions) at the preset currents, but generally it does not work with other battery brands and you have to set 0dV. It does not work even with Eneloop batteries not "new" (with internal resistance higher than normal value) and it brings to overcharge batteries due to the inability to detect the end of charge point.


----------



## sbj

At aacycler, the - 0dV setting was standard in all of his tests with various NiMh brands.



Cycle Life Testing · AA Cycler


----------



## Geppo

sbj said:


> At aacycler, the - 0dV setting was standard in all of his tests with various NiMh brands.


I agree. Moreover I agree about charger. After using EverActive NC-3000 for years without any issues, I am testing SkyRC MC3000. My opinion about SkyRC MC3000 is "a Ferrari fueled by petroleum and with truck wheel tires". Solid construction, huge intrinsic power, plagued by a bad user interface, some questionable hardware design choices, as well as a poor software design, considering its cost, put it near the bottom of my list. A very well designed app maybe could mitigate most of the bad, but unfortunately I don't think they are going to do it.
I got so many issues in a month of testing with it I never had with all my other four chargers in several years.


----------



## sbj

It's not as bad as you make it out to be. After all, the manufacturer has responded to many user requests. I haven't found a four slot charger that allows a similar free access to the charge/discharge parameters.
Current and voltage values can be calibrated. That's rare in this category.

A charger with high-quality mechanics and a higher-resolution screen would quickly cost 50% more. A manufacturer would no longer be able to sell enough devices for it to still pay off.

So I don't find the MC3000 too expensive because no other four-slot charger offers a comparable range of functions, even if it has its weak points.


----------



## Geppo

sbj said:


> It's not as bad as you make it out to be. After all, the manufacturer has responded to many user requests. I haven't found a four slot charger that allows a similar free access to the charge/discharge parameters.
> Current and voltage values can be calibrated. That's rare in this category.
> 
> A charger with high-quality mechanics and a higher-resolution screen would quickly cost 50% more. A manufacturer would no longer be able to sell enough devices for it to still pay off.
> 
> So I don't find the MC3000 too expensive because no other four-slot charger offers a comparable range of functions, even if it has its weak points.


I'm happy to hear you like it.
I don't think it needs a high resolution graphic display to become a good charger, I think it simply needs a good software.
Dummy mode is really silly, practically unusable, you can do almost nothing. Lots of chargers are able to use a "simple" user interface to do ten times more what MC3000 does in simple mode, using half of the buttons available on the MC3000.
The only way making sense is the advanced mode but I find it too much complicate to do standard activities (charge, discharge, refresh) and the need to use "profiles" would require 2 or 3 times profiles than those available (just 30). Alternatively, you need to modify profiles on the fly and it is very boring and requires a lot of button presses.
On the hardware side I think it is a nonsense to built an bulky charger like the MC3000 making impossible to load 4 D cells, just to save 1 cm wide.
On the app side, it would be a good way to overcome several user interface limits implemented in the firmware, but unfortunately the app is quite bugged and unstable and don't allow some basics operation like the backup/restore of the charging profiles available on the device.
Yes, you can play with a lot of parameters that I don't think you will modify in the daily use (but just in some contexts), but it lacks a well designed user interface to make it much more usable in a daily use.
About the calibration possibility: it's a good feature, although I don't think a few mV or mA error would compromise its funtionality.
As I wrote "a Ferrari car with truck wheel tires". It's a shame.
Anyway, all added features are welcome unless they are at cost of fundamental functionalities. Unfortunately this happens quite often.....


----------



## sbj

Higher graphics resolution could be used, for example, to make operation easier by showing more lines or two columns on the display. You would then not have to click through 17 lines to activate a change.

The dummy mode is bad, you're right.

The storable profiles are a relief. Standard tasks such as charging AAA-NiMh;AA-NiMh;NiZn and LiIo 18650 can be activated with a short click combination.
I use the first four memories purely temporarily for daily use by constantly overwriting them.

The large housing is necessary if you want to achieve a certain discharge capacity. This is totally underestimated by most users.
While the charger produces only 10% of the charging energy (= 1.7 watts of waste heat) when charging a LiIo battery with 2 A at approx. 90% efficiency, it is up to 8.4 watts (= 100% of the discharge energy) when discharging at 2A. This energy has to be dissipated somehow. The MC3000 can discharge up to 15 watts. Either 2 LiIons with 2A or 4 with 1A. A certain minimum size for the heat sink is essential for this. Unfortunately, the designers did not manage to optimally design the exhaust air flow.

I noticed that the app is not working well. But it's not an issue for me because I prefer to operate the chargers directly.



Geppo said:


> ...but it lacks a well designed user interface to make it much more usable in a daily use.....


Yes, this is a pity.

Unfortunately, more functions make it inherently more difficult to achieve a simple operating concept. Ultimately, however, free intervention is more important to me than exchanging it for pure simple operation.

SkyRC is a manufacturer that is also represented in the RC area. Therefore, they should already have some experience. However, I would not count them among the leading manufacturers there. 
Nonetheless, I'm glad they've released a four-bay charger that offers a variety of intervention options that clearly set it apart from the competition


----------



## Geppo

sbj said:


> The dummy mode is bad, you're right.


Dummy mode should be completely redesigned, using automatically identification between NiMH-LiIon, allowing to choose, in a simple way (like other chargers) between charge/discharge/refresh and to select the charge current (maybe between 5-6 standardized values). Moreover I think should be allowed to customize all the default parameters "silently" used in dummy mode.


sbj said:


> The large housing is necessary if you want to achieve a certain discharge capacity. This is totally underestimated by most users.
> While the charger produces only 10% of the charging energy (= 1.7 watts of waste heat) when charging a LiIo battery with 2 A at approx. 90% efficiency, it is up to 8.4 watts (= 100% of the discharge energy) when discharging at 2A. This energy has to be dissipated somehow. The MC3000 can discharge up to 15 watts. Either 2 LiIons with 2A or 4 with 1A. A certain minimum size for the heat sink is essential for this. Unfortunately, the designers did not manage to optimally design the exhaust air flow.


Yes, this is exactly my thought. All the more reason I think is a nonsense to save about 1cm in wide losing the ability to charge 4 D cells.


----------



## puschpull

kreisl said:


> *Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*
> 
> 
> The main functionality of DEX/MC3000 is (comprehension note: _manually _= your hands dirty on the device):
> 
> 
> DEX-*logging *data to external screen (you need to start slots on the charger _manually_!) and DEX-saving data to PC-file format (OSD, CSV, BMP/PNG). We learned from Ravel and the DEX-maker that, in the end, you don't even need a PC/laptop for long-term logging: Raspi is a 2-4Watts PCB which could do the DEX-logging instead of your remote PC/laptop.
> DEX-*backup *of your _manually _entered 30 programs in visual PC-file format (TXT) or functional PC-file format (XML). The XML-file would be also suitable for direct sharing; just don't change the original file name, then overwrite the existing file with the shared one. The XML-file is not meant for public sharing, i am just saying that it could be used for it instead of sharing TXT-file or reposting the TXT-file contents on forums.
> DEX-*restore *of backed up programs from the XML-file. The restore is fugitive since the current settings in the *slot *are overwritten but not in the device *memory*. The 30 programs in the device memory remain untouched when you do a DEX-restore, similar to the workings of the bluetooth app. For example, you could run 4 programs sourced from your fliend's XML temporarily in the charger bay, none of which matches any of the 30 programs stored on the charger; basically making your charger host 34 different programs at that moment: 30 device programs plus 4 'slot programs'. When you stop a slot or play with the device keys lol, the DEX-restored program in the slot will be gone and the slot is ready to start the indicated program number.
> 
> The above explanation of DEX functionality answers your question: No it is not possible to _create _a charging profile from scratch in DEX.
> 
> For building a library of profiles, a big TXT-file or summ ting, one would do the following:
> 
> 
> Create charging profiles _manually _on the device, up to 30 different ones at a time. Either by heart from scratch or by peeking at a small TXT-file/printout
> Send the 30 programs to DEX for a DEX-backup. DEX automatically creates that XML-file, the file name and location are fixed!
> In the DEX 'MC3000-Dialog' window use the <Clipboard> button and copy paste the programs in visual format to a single TXT-file. At the end of the day your TXT-file will contain 30 programs in visual format.
> Go to 1., and repeat the steps. Add as many different programs to the TXT-file as you want.
> Now you have a big library in form of 1 single big TXT-file. Feel free to share (file upload or content copy paste) or print out.
> 
> For illustration purposes lemme repost the animated really awesome GIF demonstrating the 'MC3000-Dialog'. i am pretty proud of the file and i will never get tired of reposting it or its URL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> lol



Hello kreisl.
I'm new to this thread. I have had my MC3000 charger for about 14 days. I am happy with it.
FW 1.15
HW 2.2
I have a question: while reading through this thread I came across the sw option to save settings only for sensitive programs. From charger to PC and vice versa. See quote above.
Which software is it? And where can I download it?
Thank you
Peter


----------



## Geppo

Another big issue, in my opinion, is that MC3000 is unable to correctly charge weared batteries with high internal resistance. With this batteries it always fail to detect the end of charge point also using 0dV (using C/3 - C/4 charge current) or it ends by temperature limit using higher charge current (C/2 - C). Please note that this batteries are still fully usable for a lot of cicles with minimal loss of performance in low drain devices (constant drain around a few mA).
As you can see on the report you can find at:


Panasonic eneloop pro · AA Cycler


Eneloop Pro batteries still exibhit large capacity also at the end of its life cycle where the internal resistance rise rapidly. If you use them in low drain devices (like thermometers, clocks, ecc) they are still fully usable with negleible loss.
I still use batteries showing almost 1 Ohm and they last almost the same as the new one (3 months).
While is impossible to charge this batteries using the SkyRC MC3000, you can charge this batteries without any issue in the EverActive NC-3000 (you can charge them at C/5 or C/2 without issues).
Considering I use a lot of this low drain devices, from my point of view the charge mode used by the EverActive NC-3000 is far superior in daily use.


----------



## Geppo

Obviously this is a point of view, but for my needs I would like the MC3000 woud be an "intelligent" charger.
Are you an intelligent charger? Then, be intelligent, do your job! I have no interest in knowing exactly how you do it, I am interested you reach the goal. Fast and in the best way. This is what I define "intelligent", otherwise you are a quite stupid "handyman".
Unfortunately the MC3000 is far away from beeing what I define an "intelligent" charger......


----------



## sbj

I stopped getting upset about such terms, which only serve marketing purposes, a long time ago.

Aged batteries with increased internal resistance are usually still charged reliably to a certain extent by my cheap chargers. That's why I haven't dealt with this topic on the MC3000 yet.

Spontaneously I would perhaps set a charging current of 0.5 to 0.6C and at a - delta peak of 4mV.

If you use many of them yourself, you can try different variants with the setting values. Finally, make a note of the setting that has always worked.


----------



## Geppo

It's more than one month that I test it with all available parameters and it is simply unthinkable to change charging parameters for each battery. So I did extensive testing to find out best standard charging parameters for most common battery types (AAA, AAA, C, D). These are now working with almost all batteries, but anyway sometimes a partially weared battery refuses to charge. This never happens with other chargers.
Anyway I firstly tried dV = -3mV and I found it works only with Eneloop battery in very good condition charged at C/2. These are the Panasonic recommended charging value. It never ended correctly a charging cycle with these parameters with other batteries, brand new. I found 0dV is the only working end of charge detection mode for general use.
Please consider I usually use 3 different types of AAA Ni-Mh batteries (Eneloop standard, Eneloop Pro, EverActive Pro - all with different capacity), 3 different types of AA Ni-Mh batteries (Eneloop standard, Eneloop Pro, EverActive Pro - same as above), 1 type of C Ni-Mh batteries, 2 different types of D Ni-Mh batteries + 3 types of Li-Ion batteries. Multiply the batteries number for the three main mode (Charge/Discharge/Refresh) you will get a nightmare of needeed profiles. That's why I had to find a common profile for all AAA battery types, one for AA and so on.
Truly I set two different profiles for AAA, and two for AA, the first one to achieve a fast charge rate (just for Eneloop Pro), the second for a "soft" charge rate (with a charging current about C/3 - somewhat function of the battery capacity under charge).
Anyway this is too much complicated and I don't like at all. With chargers like the Everactive, with just some buttons press, you simply set the mode and the charging current and I never had issues also using very low charging current. You can set it to charge/discharge/refresh all kinds/size/capacity of Ni-Mh batteries in a breeze. Surely it gains from the use of a low frequency pwm charging mode (pulse), but I think it has a better implemented alghoritm to detect the end of charge point.
For my thought, far better than a bulky charger like the SkyRC that you have to set very accurate to obtain a decent result. A very bad user interface......


----------



## sbj

Because (as already mentioned) I mostly use the cheap chargers to charge NiMh batteries, I only use the MC3000 for NiMh if I want to see the charged capacity, for example.

For AAA I set:
Capacity: 1100mAh; Current: 0.5A; Volts: 1.65V; DeltaPeak: 4mV; Temp: 38 degrees; Time: 135 mins

For AA I set:
Capacity: 2600mAh; Current: 1,1A; Volts: 1.65V; DeltaPeak: 0dV(or4mV); Temp: 38 degrees; Time: 180 mins

This has worked well for the cells I mainly use so far. Meanwhile, I mainly use "Low Self Discharge" cells.


----------



## skid00skid00

Geppo- which competitor to SkyRC do you work for?


----------



## mactavish

Indeed, while some of the criticisms are valid, they have all been mentioned before. And as this particular charger/product is not being up dated, I don’t see the point of constant update suggestions. I use it mostly for lithium batteries and the charger you seem to love doesn’t do those.


----------



## Geppo

skid00skid00 said:


> Geppo- which competitor to SkyRC do you work for?


I'm sorry dude, I do not work for any chargers/batteries producer nor for any resellers. These are my personal opinions about this charger.


----------



## Geppo

mactavish said:


> Indeed, while some of the criticisms are valid, they have all been mentioned before. And as this particular charger/product is not being up dated, I don’t see the point of constant update suggestions. I use it mostly for lithium batteries and the charger you seem to love doesn’t do those.


I use mainly Ni-Mh batteries in low drain devices and rarely some Li-Ion batteries. I was attracted by the some features of the SkyRC, like the power and the bluetooth app. I had underestimate the user interface, really bad from my point of view. Unfortunately the bluetooth app has issues and lacks some important features.
A potentially good piece of hardware with several issues that make it of little use for my needs.


----------



## Geppo

sbj said:


> Because (as already mentioned) I mostly use the cheap chargers to charge NiMh batteries, I only use the MC3000 for NiMh if I want to see the charged capacity, for example.
> 
> For AAA I set:
> Capacity: 1100mAh; Current: 0.5A; Volts: 1.65V; DeltaPeak: 4mV; Temp: 38 degrees; Time: 135 mins
> 
> For AA I set:
> Capacity: 2600mAh; Current: 1,1A; Volts: 1.65V; DeltaPeak: 0dV(or4mV); Temp: 38 degrees; Time: 180 mins
> 
> This has worked well for the cells I mainly use so far. Meanwhile, I mainly use "Low Self Discharge" cells.


As I already wrote, I spent more than a month making tests on more than 50 Ni-Mh batteries size AAA-AA-C-D of different brands (all Low Self Discharge cells) using all modes (charge/discharge/refresh/cycle).

The only setting generally working for DeltaPeak is 0dV. I started with Panasonic Eneloop recommended values (-3mV) but I found it reliably works only with fresh Eneloop batteries charged at 0.5C, as Panasonic recommends.

As described I had to find a settings applicable for all AAA batteries (750-1000mAh), one for all AA batteries (1800-2500mAh) and so on. This now works almost ever, but weared batteries are not chargeable at all. If you use a low charge current (C/4) the charger does not detect the correct point for the end of charge and it ends with "capacity limit" (1300 - 3100). If you use a higher charger current (C/2) it "boils" the batteries and it ends with "temperature limit" (45C).
Anyway I found this too much complicated, due to the needs to manage almost 30 profiles to do basic tasks (charge/discharge/refresh) to achieve a quite unsatisfactory result.
I think a big improvement could come from a well designed app, but unfortunately, this shows just basic features and has issue.

As you wrote, you use the MC3000 mainly for Li-Ion batteries and I think this is where it works at best. Moreover it supports a lot of different battery chemistry and this is nice. Unfortunately I use mainly Ni-Mh batteries and I need it work at best also with them.

I think some of the issue as due to the DC current charge method. In fact I saw similar issues (although much less evident) using the XSTAR VP4 Dragon Plus, charging size D 10000mAh cells. Pulse charge allows to minimize this issue and to do the identification of the end of charge point in Ni-Mh cells much more easier. In fact this issue is not present neither in Technoline BC-700 (a La Crosse clone) nor in EverActive NC-3000. These use both pulsed charging mode.
You can charge batteries using charge currents as low as 100mA without missing the correct full charge point. Moreover you can charge also weared batteries without issues using a quite low charging current. I already use some Eneloop Pro batteries bougth on 2015 and although they exibhit a quite high internal resistence they have still a very good capacity and last almost the new one (in low drain devices).


----------



## sbj

In the case of heavily aged NiMh batteries with increased internal resistance, the end-of-charge detection with the Deltapeak method is much more difficult due to the principle (triggering by heating). You can still be satisfied if your simple chargers can handle it well. 

In contrast to you, I have hardly found any useful use for NiMh batteries in devices with low power requirements. They only work for a short time in remote controls, wireless thermometers, temperature displays or clocks. 
That's why I have little charging experience with it. Maybe in the near future I'll pick out a few NiMh oldies from the junk box and do my own experiments.


Geppo said:


> If you use a higher charger current (C/2) it "boils" the batteries and it ends with "temperature limit" (45C).


End of charge detection by temperature rise would also be a possibility that you could try with the MC3000. The problem with AAA is that they don't make contact with the minus slide when they are pressed against the ground, which would be important for good contact with the temperature sensor.
Pretty much all multi-cell chargers have this contact problem.


----------



## Geppo

sbj said:


> In contrast to you, I have hardly found any useful use for NiMh batteries in devices with low power requirements. They only work for a short time in remote controls, wireless thermometers, temperature displays or clocks.
> That's why I have little charging experience with it. Maybe in the near future I'll pick out a few NiMh oldies from the junk box and do my own experiments.


You have to use very good Low Self Discharge batteries, otherwise the leakage current is comparable to the one used by the device. I use a lot of this batteries with very good results in wireless mouse, thermometers, clocks. They last several months, near to the lasting of an alkaline battery.
Sometimes I also test the Self Discharge behaviour of a batteries sample after some months of resting to verify their conditions.


----------



## hc900

Geppo said:


> As I already wrote, I spent more than a month making tests on more than 50 Ni-Mh batteries size AAA-AA-C-D of different brands (all Low Self Discharge cells) using all modes (charge/discharge/refresh/cycle).
> 
> The only setting generally working for DeltaPeak is 0dV. I started with Panasonic Eneloop recommended values (-3mV) but I found it reliably works only with fresh Eneloop batteries charged at 0.5C, as Panasonic recommends.
> 
> As described I had to find a settings applicable for all AAA batteries (750-1000mAh), one for all AA batteries (1800-2500mAh) and so on. This now works almost ever, but weared batteries are not chargeable at all. If you use a low charge current (C/4) the charger does not detect the correct point for the end of charge and it ends with "capacity limit" (1300 - 3100). If you use a higher charger current (C/2) it "boils" the batteries and it ends with "temperature limit" (45C).
> Anyway I found this too much complicated, due to the needs to manage almost 30 profiles to do basic tasks (charge/discharge/refresh) to achieve a quite unsatisfactory result.
> I think a big improvement could come from a well designed app, but unfortunately, this shows just basic features and has issue.
> 
> As you wrote, you use the MC3000 mainly for Li-Ion batteries and I think this is where it works at best. Moreover it supports a lot of different battery chemistry and this is nice. Unfortunately I use mainly Ni-Mh batteries and I need it work at best also with them.
> 
> I think some of the issue as due to the DC current charge method. In fact I saw similar issues (although much less evident) using the XSTAR VP4 Dragon Plus, charging size D 10000mAh cells. Pulse charge allows to minimize this issue and to do the identification of the end of charge point in Ni-Mh cells much more easier. In fact this issue is not present neither in Technoline BC-700 (a La Crosse clone) nor in EverActive NC-3000. These use both pulsed charging mode.
> You can charge batteries using charge currents as low as 100mA without missing the correct full charge point. Moreover you can charge also weared batteries without issues using a quite low charging current. I already use some Eneloop Pro batteries bougth on 2015 and although they exibhit a quite high internal resistence they have still a very good capacity and last almost the new one (in low drain devices).


You are one of the 500 Italian users of the MC-3000!
One of the few who asks himself questions to find personal solutions.

For AA rechargeable batteries, the 1C current is an illusion, maybe you could do a recharge up to 50% at 1C and then go to C / 3, but it doesn't convince me enough.
Our MC-3000 still lacks something to function well without complicated programming.



To do things easily:

For the Eneloop batteries are with you, the Varta are the worst of the worst, the Energizers are saved but do not shine for quality.

Usually I recharge the Eneloop with a BC900 LaCrosse or with a BT-C700 Opus, being careful not to use more than 700mA of recharge due to the known problems of high temperature.

For other less good batteries, a Liitokala LII-500 does a good job even at 1000mA charging for 2 reasons:
1] the housings are wider and retain less heat
2] charging ends by voltage before 100% capacity, so it does not overheat them. Not perfect but decent.



The pulsed current:
ingenious and dangerous, the maximum current is used for short moments.
The thermal effect is maximum even at low currents, because the pulse is of a strong current that warms the battery, more than a constant current charge without pulses.


----------



## kerneldrop

Maybe I need to rethink how I charge batteries....I put them on the SkyRC, turn that light to red and wait for that light to turn green.

I must ask...what kind of performance improvement(s) are we getting from delving deep into charging?


----------



## hc900

skid00skid00 said:


> Geppo- which competitor to SkyRC do you work for?


To make the MC-3000 work properly, the system of springs and electrical contacts should be improved. 

A 4-wire sense system would be ideal to be reliable in all conditions. (would be difficult to make with small batteries or with flat poles) 

The temperature sensor should be mounted on a spring that makes it touch the battery in a stable and reliable way. 


For the rest: 

The bluetooth module needs to be changed to a decent one. 

One USB port with QC 3.0 The bays must accommodate 4 D-size batteries. At the risk of becoming a large aircraft carrier! 

A 15 Volt powered charger must be able to recharge 9 Volt batteries !! 

The App needs deep attention and care, it is the centerpiece of the MC-3000 for busy use


New charger name?
👉MC-6000 or HAL9000


----------



## hc900

kerneldrop said:


> Maybe I need to rethink how I charge batteries....I put them on the SkyRC, turn that light to red and wait for that light to turn green.
> 
> I must ask...what kind of performance improvement(s) are we getting from delving deep into charging?


A universal charger with high technological capabilities, should be able to do everything by itself.

A user who has over 20 types of batteries would like to do without looking for programs suitable for multiple types.
Of him the MC-3000 does not do an optimal job, it is necessary to go into the settings to correct the work of him.

For example: the MC-3000 does not understand if the inserted battery is AA or AAA size, a cheap BT-C700 understands this immediately, by changing the charging current by itself


----------



## sbj

But it can only differentiate between these because it doesn't have to provide a contact for LiIo sizes such as 18650.

Most universal four bay chargers that can charge both LiIo and NiMh have been found not to work well with NiMh. So far I've been happy with the MC3000 here too.


----------



## Geppo

hc900 said:


> You are one of the 500 Italian users of the MC-3000!
> One of the few who asks himself questions to find personal solutions.



That don't comfort me at all, a reason more to understand there are few chances to get some good improvement to the MC3000.
I'm used to look things for what they really are and I don't like at all who think to have the best device all over the world because he got it. Moreover I have a special "aptitude" to find out in just five minutes a bug while others need a month. This is somewhat my curse....
A friend of mine was used to say: If there are two "lemons" all over the world, first is for you, the other for me.




hc900 said:


> For AA rechargeable batteries, the 1C current is an illusion, maybe you could do a recharge up to 50% at 1C and then go to C / 3, but it doesn't convince me enough.
> Our MC-3000 still lacks something to function well without complicated programming.
> 
> 
> 
> To do things easily:
> 
> For the Eneloop batteries are with you, the Varta are the worst of the worst, the Energizers are saved but do not shine for quality.
> 
> Usually I recharge the Eneloop with a BC900 LaCrosse or with a BT-C700 Opus, being careful not to use more than 700mA of recharge due to the known problems of high temperature.
> 
> For other less good batteries, a Liitokala LII-500 does a good job even at 1000mA charging for 2 reasons:
> 1] the housings are wider and retain less heat
> 2] charging ends by voltage before 100% capacity, so it does not overheat them. Not perfect but decent.



I agree with you charging a Ni-Mh battery at C current is not a good idea. Panasonic recommends C/2 for Eneloop batteries.
Anyway to correctly identify the full charge point in Ni-Mh batteries using dV identification (surely the best one) you cannot use a too low charge current. This is a well know constraint. Generally speaking you have to charge your NiMh batteries at a charge current not lower than C/3. Personally I discovered that C/4 is generally enough, but I cannot state this for all batteries. Using charge currents below that value cause issue in detecting the correct end of charge point.



hc900 said:


> The pulsed current:
> ingenious and dangerous, the maximum current is used for short moments.
> The thermal effect is maximum even at low currents, because the pulse is of a strong current that warms the battery, more than a constant current charge without pulses.


Anyway, please note that also your BT-C700 uses a pulsed charge as you can see here:


Review of Charger Opus BT-C700



About the danger of this method, I only can say that I still use my first Eneloop batteries bought on 2015, so from a practical point of view I don't think it is so dangerous. Moreover, as you have seen using your BT-C700, they never miss to detect the proper full charge point, also using a quite low current (average current).

I own five chargers: a Technoline BC700, a Everactive NC3000, a LiitoKala LII-500, a XSTAR VP4 Dragon Plus and the SkyRC MC3000. The first two are the best for Ni-Mh charging and both uses pulsed charge.


----------



## hc900

Pulsed current is a good idea, only when it works well.
My MahaC9000, LaCrosse BC900 and Opus BT-C700 are pulsed current, I also know for the higher heat they produce than the MC3000.

The point is that if the pulses are too strong like on the C9000, around 2000mA, the batteries can go to a bad end.

On the BC900 there is no space to dissipate the heat, and the over-temperature protections often trip.

On the BT-C700 the pulsed current is better dosed, and the average current of 700mA allows you to finish charging 4 AA without problems.

So I observed how pulse charging can be dangerous, but going further:

Sometimes without apparent causes, the Minus Delt V is not seen. I have 4 BT-C700: 3 of the first generation and one of the latest generation, but the problem is always this, it happens more frequently if the batteries are cheap like Varta and Energizer or Eneloop Lite.


SKYRC:
Sure our MC3000 is a good charger, but you can't take it as the best in the world. I was never convinced by charging high-capacity D batteries, especially with the first firmware, charging at 2000mA stopped without a valid reason.


----------



## Geppo

hc900 said:


> Pulsed current is a good idea, only when it works well.
> My MahaC9000, LaCrosse BC900 and Opus BT-C700 are pulsed current, I also know for the higher heat they produce than the MC3000.
> 
> The point is that if the pulses are too strong like on the C9000, around 2000mA, the batteries can go to a bad end.
> 
> On the BC900 there is no space to dissipate the heat, and the over-temperature protections often trip.
> 
> On the BT-C700 the pulsed current is better dosed, and the average current of 700mA allows you to finish charging 4 AA without problems.
> 
> So I observed how pulse charging can be dangerous, but going further:
> 
> Sometimes without apparent causes, the Minus Delt V is not seen. I have 4 BT-C700: 3 of the first generation and one of the latest generation, but the problem is always this, it happens more frequently if the batteries are cheap like Varta and Energizer or Eneloop Lite.
> 
> 
> SKYRC:
> Sure our MC3000 is a good charger, but you can't take it as the best in the world. I was never convinced by charging high-capacity D batteries, especially with the first firmware, charging at 2000mA stopped without a valid reason.


I usually charge my Eneloop Std / Pro AAA batteries at 200-400mA and the AA at 400-600mA and I never had issues with the EverActive or the TechnoLine. Always "cold" batteries, while during the test of the SkyRC I "boiled" some batteries because it has missed the detection of the full charge.
About size D batteries, I did only a few tests ended without issues, I will do more and I will report about the results.


----------



## desert.snake

I now decided to read the instructions for the MC3000, I can't understand, can I set it up so that the lithium ion charging ends at 4.1 volts (or any other voltage that I need) or not?


----------



## sbj

Yes, you can freely set the end-of-charge voltage in a range from 3.65V to 4.40V (including storage and LiIo4.35).

This freedom of adjustment is what I appreciate so much about the MC3000.

You can find the setting ranges in the operating instructions under: "BATTERY VOLTAGES" (page 11).


----------



## skid00skid00

hc900 said:


> A universal charger with high technological capabilities, should be able to do everything by itself.
> 
> A user who has over 20 types of batteries would like to do without looking for programs suitable for multiple types.
> Of him the MC-3000 does not do an optimal job, it is necessary to go into the settings to correct the work of him.
> 
> For example: the MC-3000 does not understand if the inserted battery is AA or AAA size, a cheap BT-C700 understands this immediately, by changing the charging current by itself





Review of Charger Opus BT-C700



Lygte-info: BT-C700 charges AAA at 700 mA. 

That's too high.


----------



## Geppo

skid00skid00 said:


> Review of Charger Opus BT-C700
> 
> 
> 
> Lygte-info: BT-C700 charges AAA at 700 mA.
> 
> That's too high.


Maybe did you miss something?
"The charge mode can select between 200, 300, 400, 500, 700 and 1000, default is 400mA. The 1000mA is only available in slot #1 and #4 and only when slot #2 and #3 is empty."

Surely 700mA, in my opinion, are too much for a a small AAA. Anyway its default is 400mA and you still can lower it. These are (about) the same values available in Opus BT-C2000 or its clone, the EverActive NC3000 (it only adds 1400mA, but this value is not real) and they are quite good for a lot of batteries.

The charge current used by BT-C700 is about 1A pulsed (low frequency pwm) while BT-C2000 uses 1.25A. Its duty cycle is varied to achieve the average current chosen.
As I wrote, I did not noticed any premature degradation in AAA or AA batteries using this kind of chargers.

I consider much more dangerous to miss the correct end of charge point and to "boil" a battery. This NEVER happended to me with these kind of chargers.

Maybe using a DC charge (not pulsed) you theorically could improve a bit the battery life, if you would be able to charge them without overcharging them due to the miss of the correct identification of the full charge point, but this seems to be quite difficult.
Anyway I don't think I can complain about it, considering I still use batteries bought on 2015, always charged using those type of chargers.


----------



## puschpull

puschpull said:


> Hello kreisl.
> I'm new to this thread. I have had my MC3000 charger for about 14 days. I am happy with it.
> FW 1.15
> HW 2.2
> I have a question: while reading through this thread I came across the sw option to save settings only for sensitive programs. From charger to PC and vice versa. See quote above.
> Which software is it? And where can I download it?
> Thank you
> Peter





kreisl said:


> *Re: SkyRC — IFA 2014 / CES 2016 — MC3000 charger-analyzer*
> 
> 
> The main functionality of DEX/MC3000 is (comprehension note: _manually _= your hands dirty on the device):
> 
> 
> DEX-*logging *data to external screen (you need to start slots on the charger _manually_!) and DEX-saving data to PC-file format (OSD, CSV, BMP/PNG). We learned from Ravel and the DEX-maker that, in the end, you don't even need a PC/laptop for long-term logging: Raspi is a 2-4Watts PCB which could do the DEX-logging instead of your remote PC/laptop.
> DEX-*backup *of your _manually _entered 30 programs in visual PC-file format (TXT) or functional PC-file format (XML). The XML-file would be also suitable for direct sharing; just don't change the original file name, then overwrite the existing file with the shared one. The XML-file is not meant for public sharing, i am just saying that it could be used for it instead of sharing TXT-file or reposting the TXT-file contents on forums.
> DEX-*restore *of backed up programs from the XML-file. The restore is fugitive since the current settings in the *slot *are overwritten but not in the device *memory*. The 30 programs in the device memory remain untouched when you do a DEX-restore, similar to the workings of the bluetooth app. For example, you could run 4 programs sourced from your fliend's XML temporarily in the charger bay, none of which matches any of the 30 programs stored on the charger; basically making your charger host 34 different programs at that moment: 30 device programs plus 4 'slot programs'. When you stop a slot or play with the device keys lol, the DEX-restored program in the slot will be gone and the slot is ready to start the indicated program number.
> 
> The above explanation of DEX functionality answers your question: No it is not possible to _create _a charging profile from scratch in DEX.
> 
> For building a library of profiles, a big TXT-file or summ ting, one would do the following:
> 
> 
> Create charging profiles _manually _on the device, up to 30 different ones at a time. Either by heart from scratch or by peeking at a small TXT-file/printout
> Send the 30 programs to DEX for a DEX-backup. DEX automatically creates that XML-file, the file name and location are fixed!
> In the DEX 'MC3000-Dialog' window use the <Clipboard> button and copy paste the programs in visual format to a single TXT-file. At the end of the day your TXT-file will contain 30 programs in visual format.
> Go to 1., and repeat the steps. Add as many different programs to the TXT-file as you want.
> Now you have a big library in form of 1 single big TXT-file. Feel free to share (file upload or content copy paste) or print out.
> 
> For illustration purposes lemme repost the animated really awesome GIF demonstrating the 'MC3000-Dialog'. i am pretty proud of the file and i will never get tired of reposting it or its URL:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> lol



So I found it. It's in the "Device Tool Box" settings. I was too distracted to find it.
So now it's okay and the problem is solved.
 (Sorry and Thanks)


----------



## Vasilije

In 2016 I got my first MC3K and it is slowly falling apart, the plastic is of desperate quality and I had to repair it several times. The question is how long it will last. So I ordered a new one, I hope the quality of the material has improved. It is the latest version with two fans. What are your experiences with the older model, has anyone else had problems with breaking plastic parts?


----------



## Geppo

hc900 said:


> SKYRC:
> Sure our MC3000 is a good charger, but you can't take it as the best in the world. I was never convinced by charging high-capacity D batteries, especially with the first firmware, charging at 2000mA stopped without a valid reason.


For D size batteries I use the following parameters:
Charge current = 2.5A
Target voltage = 1.60V
Delta peak = 0dV
Trickle charge = OFF

Charge ends correctly, highest battery temperature = 32C
Tested batteries are EBL 10000mAh (7500mAh real).
I forgot I already did a quite extensive testing on eight EverActive D size batteries 10000mAh (9000mAh real) using the same parameters as above except charge current = 2A. It works too but I preferred to rise a bit the charge current to stay above a C/4 charge current.

My SkyRC MC3000 charger is the last release with last available firmware (1.15). I did not notice any issue except the bad designed battery contacts (especially on the positive pole). It is very difficult to succeed to put your batteries "straight" in the slots due to the "domes" existing on the contacts which are not centered with D size batteries contacts (about the same using AAA batteries).


----------



## hc900

With the 5000mAh D batteries 
Charge current = 2.0A
Target voltage = 1.60V
Delta peak = 3dV
Trickle charge = OFF
and some time it display breacking connection

Of the MC3000 I have 2 hardware release:
first series with the fan blowing from top to bottom
second series with fan blowing from bottom to top and improved display

I don't have the third series, the one with dual fans


----------



## hc900

Vasilije said:


> In 2016 I got my first MC3K and it is slowly falling apart, the plastic is of desperate quality and I had to repair it several times. The question is how long it will last. So I ordered a new one, I hope the quality of the material has improved. It is the latest version with two fans. What are your experiences with the older model, has anyone else had problems with breaking plastic parts?


Few year ago, on eBay and GearBest I've purchased 2 plastic cases, for repair .... a bad plastic quality


----------



## Geppo

hc900 said:


> Few year ago, on eBay and GearBest I've purchased 2 plastic cases, for repair .... a bad plastic quality


Interesting..... So, despite its bulky dimensions and its heaviness it sounds like it uses fragile materials. I did not have this feeling, but I just own it from mid-December.


----------



## hc900

I don't know if anything has changed for your third generation.
The plastics of the first generation broke inside exactly where the springs of the sliders hooked.

Do you speak Neapolitan or Venetian language?


----------



## Geppo

I'm sorry, I speak only the language of the "supreme Poet".


----------



## mactavish

Odd, noticed a NEWER MC3000 Manual on the SkyRC website. Dated “12-12-22”, version “1.17”.
The previous version of the manual I have is V.1.14. 

The firmware is STILL V1.15, from 2 years ago, not sure why a “new” manual would be released, hard to easily detect any difference in the two PDF’s.


----------



## hc900

mactavish said:


> Odd, noticed a NEWER MC3000 Manual on the SkyRC website. Dated “12-12-22”, version “1.17”.
> The previous version of the manual I have is V.1.14.
> 
> The firmware is STILL V1.15, from 2 years ago, not sure why a “new” manual would be released, hard to easily detect any difference in the two PDF’s.


As printed on page 1:
User manual of year 2020 ?? [Version 1.17]


----------



## mactavish

hc900 said:


> As printed on page 1:
> User manual of year 2020 ?? [Version 1.17]



Why release a new manual, if nothing has changed in the hardware?
BTW: Once again, a new IOS APP version was released, saying the same old thing, “fixes”, NOT sure what was fixed or added as they don’t say.....


----------



## hc900

The manual has endless problems, in the sense that it is not simple and it is not understandable enough.

For Apps, there are various problems for Android: little things compared to the 2017 App.
But there are still some technical problems, instability in Bluetoot, and little space to store battery profiles.


----------



## mactavish

hc900 said:


> The manual has endless problems, in the sense that it is not simple and it is not understandable enough.
> 
> For Apps, there are various problems for Android: little things compared to the 2017 App.
> But there are still some technical problems, instability in Bluetoot, and little space to store battery profiles.



While I don’t disagree, none of what you have written in your responses address my questions. But thanks....


----------



## hc900

mactavish said:


> Odd, noticed a NEWER MC3000 Manual on the SkyRC website. Dated “12-12-22”, version “1.17”.
> The previous version of the manual I have is V.1.14.
> 
> The firmware is STILL V1.15, from 2 years ago, not sure why a “new” manual would be released, hard to easily detect any difference in the two PDF’s.


The MC3000 are the best seller for SKYRC, a long seller from 2015 ...
A new user manual is as "a sign of life" for the new buyers.


----------



## Slipps666

I bought this charger with the intention of charging AA lithium recharable batteries like the Kratak range , but unfortunately it will not charge them. I wrote to skyRC and this was there reply :

It cannot charge AA Lithium batteries and we would not consider to add that charging profile at the moment.

Thanks
Best Regards
Phoebe Sun

Your Support for SkyRC Team
so pretty disappointed


----------



## wus

Do you have a link to these Kratak rechargeable Lithium AAs? Google doesn't seem to know them.

My MC3000 recharges Lithium-Ion (LiIon) cells without issues. I don't have AA size, but I do have 16340, AAA, 26500 and 18650. I am sure it will recharge AA cells of the same technology - LiIon - equally well.

If you are talking of AA Lithium batteries - these are not rechargeable. 

What exactly did you ask SkyRC?


----------



## Slipps666

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B089GNHN7F/



no it will not charge aa as needs 5 volts to charge 

I asked skyrc if they would add it to the charging profile


----------



## Slipps666

this was my question :

So the skyrc mc3000 cannot charge Kratax AA Lithium even in expert mode? I am surprised as these batteries are becoming more popular now. Surely you can add the charging profile to the firmware
regards


----------



## wus

Ah, Krata*x*... now it becomes clear.

I'm not surprized that the MC3000 can't recharge them. This sort of batteries, which use 3,7V LiIon cells internally and built-in step down converters to output 1.5V, use all sorts of different "tricks" to recharge the internal LiIon cell. Obviously, this needs 4.2 Volt, so this has to be provided to the cell, somehow bypassing the step down converter. 

Some have micro USB connectors on the side, others an additional contact ring around the + button top, some require 4.2, others 4.5, again others even 5.0V on the + button. I'm not sure if it is at all possible to detect the proper way for all of these different special charging methods, only by measuring voltage, current and probably internal resistance through the regular 2 contacts, which are the only means the MC3000 has.


----------



## Slipps666

Shame because I assumed this charger does all , clearly it does not and the manufacture clearly isn't interested in any updates, so buyers beware ! I fell for it as have a ISDT C4 Evo Smart Charger anyway , so didnt really need this


----------



## wus

And does the ISDT C4 Evo recharge the Kratax 1.5V Lithium AAs?


----------



## Slipps666

Ha ha no that's why bought the skyrc , pretty annoyed as paid £100 for a charger that does no more than previous except c and d batteries , but support arn't interested in updating the firmware either. Yes as stated earlier need a 5v charge , but as I have a stand alone charger for these batteries that seems to be a dumb charger ( I maybe wrong ) I would expect the skyrc to charge them.


----------



## wus

And did you ask ISDT as well if they would update their firmware to support charging such cells which require 5V straight? Apparently there are a couple more brands which require 5V, see https://www.akkuvergleichstest.de/


----------



## an654

Slipps666 said:


> Ha ha no that's why bought the skyrc , pretty annoyed as paid £100 for a charger that does no more than previous except c and d batteries , but support arn't interested in updating the firmware either. Yes as stated earlier need a 5v charge , but as I have a stand alone charger for these batteries that seems to be a dumb charger ( I maybe wrong ) I would expect the skyrc to charge them.


The MC3000 charges cells. It adjusts voltage and current, and controls the charging of a single cell. These 1.5V Lithium AA's are not cells, they have a cell inside but there is circuitry that surrounds it to take the Lithium 3V cell and regulate it to 1.5V. This circuitry also acts as the charger. So yes you are getting regulated voltage of these batteries, but you are also loosing efficiency because of the voltage converter, and its also a smaller cell inside because the circuit uses some space. So they have pluses but also big negatives. For example, a Lithium-ion battery doesn't like to be charged to 100% and stored, it should be charged to no more than 80% for long storage, where an Eneloop has no problem with a 100% charge and storage.


----------



## Slipps666

so when you pay £100 for a charger that states does all I expect it to , do you work for them ? seems like your very protective over a company that have not updated their firmware in 2 years and when requested , refuse to update their firmware ! sorry directed at Wus


----------



## mactavish

I believe all the batteries the MC is compatible with, are already listed, and documented. So assuming you researched it before buying it, you then hoped the company could easily update the firmware for you? Strange logic in my opinion. The AA/AAA lithium batteries I buy, like “Energizer” brand are considered disposable/recyclable, for all the technical reasons mentioned in posts above. Just return it or sell it, do a bit more research next time, instead of, in your words: “a charger that states does all I expect it to”. Good luck!


----------



## linc90

What the hell did wus say wrong?? Get of your high horse mate. YOU clearly don't understand batterys and maybe shouldn't use the mc3000 in expert mode!


----------



## Wild4fire

You're blaming the manufacturer for an assumption you made. That's not fair.

Also, as explained by wus, the kind of battery you have can have any of several ways of how it needs to be charged. It is impossible for the charger to know what method is needed for any specific kind of that battery.

There's a reason a charger is often included with this kind of batteries, because the charger is matched to the specific type of batteries.


----------



## wus

Slipps666 said:


> I ... have a ISDT C4 Evo Smart Charger


Did you ask ISDT if they can update the C4 Evo firmware to allow 5V charging? Maybe they are more willing?

Btw, I'm not working for any company. I'm a retired engineer and thought about the problem that this sort of batteries pose to so called "universal" automatic chargers. I couldn't find an easy solution, that's why I wrote


> I'm not surprized that the MC3000 can't recharge them.


However, I don't claim that it isn't possible at all, just because I didn't quickly find an easy solution - who am I after all. And maybe it would even be possible for SkyRC to implement it in a manual way, perhaps as you suggested in the expert mode. But like most companies, they will probably do it only if they can expect significant sales from it - not because 1 customer (who already purchased his unit ) asked for it.


----------



## Slipps666

linc90 said:


> What the hell did wus say wrong?? Get of your high horse mate. YOU clearly don't understand batterys and maybe shouldn't use the mc3000 in expert mode!


I prob know more than you buddy ! also the circuit in an aa lithium is a step down converter as well as low/high voltage cut-off and I know it requires 5v to charge as its really a 14500 @ 3.7v . My bad for not checking the charger more thoroughly. To be honest I thought in expert mode you could change it to charge @ 5v, but you can't as it thinks its a 1.3v aa and you can't change that all


----------



## mactavish

Slipps666 said:


> My bad for not checking the charger more thoroughly.


Well that says it all! 

While new batteries may come out, there are new larger size lithiums that electric cars are or will be using, but I suspect there will be NO firmware updates to this charger. It was created fairly long ago, but still charges the majority of batteries out there. I wish you luck finding a solution…..


----------



## Slipps666

Wild4fire said:


> You're blaming the manufacturer for an assumption you made. That's not fair.
> 
> Also, as explained by wus, the kind of battery you have can have any of several ways of how it needs to be charged. It is impossible for the charger to know what method is needed for any specific kind of that battery.
> 
> There's a reason a charger is often included with this kind of batteries, because the charger is matched to the specific type of batteries.


Yes good point , I was merely stating that the manufacturer is not interested anyway. I could charge them manually but thought the charger that comes with them is a bit tacky


----------



## wus

Since a few days, the Sky MC3000 App (Android) that I use notifies me every time I start it that a new Firmware is available for download and should be installed in the charger. I now looked this up and saw that the new version - it is V1.15 - is dated 27.03.2020, i.e. it is over 2 years old.

I could not find a changelog or anything that describes the changes from V1.14. Did I overlook something? *Do any of you know what changed?*

It seems odd that a "new" firmware is offered only more than 2 years after its creation, does anyone here know why it is announced (by the app) only now? I'm using the MC3000 and the app since well over 2 years. 

Google Play says tha app is V3.84 and was introduced on 17.12.2021. I'm always updating apps when new version become available....


----------



## mactavish

wus said:


> Since a few days, the Sky MC3000 App (Android) that I use notifies me every time I start it that a new Firmware is available for download and should be installed in the charger. I now looked this up and saw that the new version - it is V1.15 - is dated 27.03.2020, i.e. it is over 2 years old.
> 
> I could not find a changelog or anything that describes the changes from V1.14. Did I overlook something? *Do any of you know what changed?*
> 
> It seems odd that a "new" firmware is offered only more than 2 years after its creation, does anyone here know why it is announced (by the app) only now? I'm using the MC3000 and the app since well over 2 years.
> 
> Google Play says tha app is V3.84 and was introduced on 17.12.2021. I'm always updating apps when new version become available....



Check post #5355, there is some info there, I did a quick search “IN THREAD”, using terms: firmware 1.15. I updated mine long ago, don’t remember what was new.


----------



## mrrhh

wus said:


> Ah, Krata*x*... now it becomes clear.
> 
> I'm not surprized that the MC3000 can't recharge them. This sort of batteries, which use 3,7V LiIon cells internally and built-in step down converters to output 1.5V, use all sorts of different "tricks" to recharge the internal LiIon cell. Obviously, this needs 4.2 Volt, so this has to be provided to the cell, somehow bypassing the step down converter.


The Krataxes are actually rebadged, or possibly cloned, Hixons, which in turn are rebadged or cloned by or from a number of other brands, you can find these scattered across Aliexpress with accompanying hit-and-miss quality control. I wouldn't want to use these with anything other than the vendor's charger which knows exactly what magic needs to be performed to safely charge them.

Or at least to charge them.


----------



## mrrhh

wus said:


> Some have micro USB connectors on the side, others an additional contact ring around the + button top, some require 4.2, others 4.5, again others even 5.0V on the + button.


You can see this on some of the chargers for the batteries, you only plug the battery in on the + side to charge it, the - side is disconnected, so there's no way you're going to be able to charge it with any standard charger, firmware update or not.

They're also all quite misleadingly rated in mWh not mAh to hide their rather low capacity. Unless you really, really need 1.5V rather than 1.2V you're far better off with Eneloops. Even then, because they're running through a DC/DC converter they often have quite a bit of voltage drop at higher current draws, so you're not even beating an Eneloop there.


----------



## Thiers-Issard

Is it possible that i have bricked my MC3000 unit?
I downloaded the latest firmware from SkyRC's homepage and plugged in my USB cable.
Tried to update firmware and it didn't work.. Now the screen was blank and I panicked a little , did a little bit of searching and found this guide: 

"*https://www.candlepowerforums.com/t...charger-analyzer.389700/page-174#post-4923550" *

I grabbed my best USB cable that I know works, and I tried to upgrade firmware with this guide
And all I get is: *start vector err1*
Tried a few other cables too that I know are nice, but no...


----------



## wus

mrrhh said:


> Unless you really, really need 1.5V rather than 1.2V you're far better off with Eneloops. Even then, because they're running through a DC/DC converter they often have quite a bit of voltage drop at higher current draws, so you're not even beating an Eneloop there.


Just so that no incomplete information remains here: 

Yes, eneloops can supply higher currents than this sort of 1.5V LiIon AAs. They all (or that I know) have current limiters, to protect the built-in DC/DC converters. However, until their current limit, which is typically in the 1.5 to 2A range for AAs, they have a very stable output voltage, much better than NiMHs, whose voltage decreases significantly at higher currents. 

You can see this here: select for instance the Kentli AA PH5 3000mWh vs the eneloop AA HR3-UWXB for currents of 1 and 2 Amps.


----------



## SYZYGY

i'm using NCR18650GA (3500mAh) cells.


https://www.orbtronic.com/content/Datasheet-specs-Sanyo-Panasonic-NCR18650GA-3500mah.pdf



i made this refresh profile for them to measure their capacity:

BATT TYPE: liion
MODE: refresh
CAPACITY: 4200mAh
C. CURRENT: 1A
D. CURRENT: -1A
C. RESTING: 30min
D.RESTING: 60min
CYCLE COUNT: 1
CYCLE MODE: C>D>C
TARGET VOLT: 4.20V
TERMINATION: 0.1A
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D. REDUCE: OFF
*CUT VOLT: 2.7V*
CUT TEMP: 45°C

first, what do you think about it?

i use mostly zebralights, so i chose 2.7V cutoff because i've heard that's where ZL's LVP kicks in (*is that true?*). i wanted a capacity figure that roughly reflects my target devices.

however, it seems like they stopped discharging at 3V. what am i missing here?






you can see slot 1 is resting at 2.97V. IIRC the others also stopped at ~3V.
did i do something wrong? is this a bug? am i misunderstanding how this is supposed to work?

my device info:
fw 1.15
hw ≥2.2

thanks


----------



## linc90

Nothing is wrong. In regards to the resting cell it's perfectly normal for a healthy cell to recover that much voltage after cutting out at 2.7v 1A . As for the cells almost finished, you are simply observing how little capacity is left in these particular cells below 3v.


----------



## linc90

Just to clarify you can see cells 3,4 are still discharging by the negative sign on the current measurement eg, -1.01 as opposed to cell 2 which has 1 amp going into it which means it finished discharging first and has now started charging. 
One reason it might have done that is if it was more changed than the rest when you started the cycle since you have it setup c>d>c (charge,discharge, charge)


----------



## SYZYGY

i see. yeah i guess it's possible that it really did discharge to 2.7V, and i wasn't around to observe it in time. i'll pay better attention. thanks!


----------



## linc90

You're settings are correct and I've never seen this charger get it wrong, so it's basically a guarantee that it did discharge to 2.7v.


----------



## SYZYGY

how's this storage profile?

BATT TYPE: liion
MODE: storage
CAPACITY: 4200mAh
C. CURRENT: 1A
D. CURRENT: -1A
C. RESTING: 0min
D.RESTING: 0min
CYCLE COUNT: off
CYCLE MODE: off
TARGET VOLT: 3.80V
*TERMINATION: 0.01A*
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D. REDUCE: -ZERO
CUT VOLT: OFF
CUT TEMP: 45°C
CUT TIME: OFF

maybe it doesn't matter in the end, but it didn't finish even after 6 hours. the slots were still busy.







i think default termination for storage is Zero, and i read somewhere that setting it to 0.01A or 0.02A can help with the profile taking longer than it needs to. i don't actually understand why, though. should i try increasing it to 0.02A?

also, what's with skyrc's choice of 3.8V for storage? everything i've read i the past suggests 3.6-3.7V. guessing 3.6,3.7,3.8 are all close enough, and it doesn't really matter. as long as it's stored somewhere around half full it's ok?


----------



## linc90

I've heard reports of this to. Haven't had this problem myself, I think it would depend on the particular cell. Definitely try raising it up a bit. But you're right it doesn't matter at all, after 6 hours they will be as close to 3.8v as they will get.


----------



## linc90

Oh yeah somewhere around that voltage will do. It really depends on the cell where exactly halfway is and doesn't have to be that accurate I believe.


----------



## SYZYGY

thanks for your patience. 

got another one:






slot 4 is running this program:

NCR18650GA Storage

BATT TYPE: LiIon
MODE: Storage
CAPACITY: 4200mAh
C. CURRENT: 1.25A
*D. CURRENT: -1.5A*
C. RESTING: 0min
D.RESTING: 0min
CYCLE COUNT: OFF
CYCLE MODE: OFF
TARGET VOLT: 3.75V
TERMINATION: 0.02A
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D. REDUCE: -Zero
CUT VOLT: OFF
CUT TEMP: 45°C
CUT TIME: OFF

i'm putting some fully charged cells into storage, but it seems to discharge at -1A despite D. CURRENT being set to -1.5A. thoughts?


----------



## linc90

Oh that's an easy one, mc300 will only discharge up to 2 amps if only 1 slot is getting used, if more than one slot is active it is limited to 1 amp discharge per slot as not to overheat the charger.


----------



## SYZYGY

i'm using eneloop pro AAs

BATT TYPE: NiMH
MODE: Charge
*CAPACITY: 2700mAh*
C. CURRENT: 1.00A
D. CURRENT: OFF
C. RESTING: 0min
D.RESTING: OFF
CYCLE COUNT: OFF
CYCLE MODE: OFF
TARGET VOLT: 1.65V
DELTA PEAK: 3mV
TRICKLE C.: OFF
TRICKLE TIME: OFF
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D. REDUCE: OFF
CUT VOLT: OFF
CUT TEMP: 45°C
CUT TIME: OFF

according to the packaging, these can supply up to *2550 mAh*:






anyone have a profile for these they'd like to share? does mine look good?

when i use this profile, i encounter the *Capacity Cut* error:

Capacity: 2700mAh
Voltage: 1.52/1.65V
Average: 1.458V
Energy: 3.931Wh
Time: 2:50
Batt IR: 73mohm

i hesitate to increase it by too much more without advice from you guys. should i set it to 3000 mAh?

thanks


----------



## Gaudi

Capacity Cut means that the charger is not detecting the charging ending point, probably because the charging current is a little bit too low, or there are other issues. You can set it a little bit higher, usually 0.5C, which is about 1.5-1.8 A for your batteries.

You can disable the Capacity Cutoff (make sure you are around to detect any issue/overcharging in case the batteries are damaged).

From Google: "The charge algorithm for NiMH, *using negative Delta V to detect full charge is delicate, especially when charging at less than 0.5C*. A mismatched battery pack or a heated one further reduces the symptoms. NDV in a NiMH charger should respond to a voltage drop of 5mV or less."


----------



## Geppo

SYZYGY said:


> Capacity: 2700mAh
> Voltage: 1.52/1.65V
> Average: 1.458V
> Energy: 3.931Wh
> Time: 2:50
> Batt IR: 73mohm
> 
> i hesitate to increase it by too much more without advice from you guys. should i set it to 3000 mAh?
> 
> thanks



You set a capacity cut value too low. Use Nominal Capacity x 1.2, then 3100mAh for Eneloop Pro AA batteries.
Anyway Gaudi's suggestions are right. If you set Delta Peak=3mV you should use 0.5C as charging current (as clearly stated by Panasonic).
Alternatevely (like I do) set Delta Peak=0dV and generally you can lower the charging current down to 0.3C.
The MC3000 charger uses a constant current charging method (not pulsed) and it is quite critical regarding the detection of the end charging point.


----------



## dma_k

From Charger SkyRC MC3000:


> Be careful with charge current, using anything below 0.3C will probably miss termination on AA/AAA cells. I mostly use around 0.5C.
> To keep the cells safe if the terminations is missed use a capacity limit between 130% and 150% of the cells capacity and a timer cutoff calculated as ''capacity/current×1.4'', i.e. for a 2000mA cell at 1A it is 2000/1000*1.4 = 2.8 hours = 2 hours 48 minutes.
> For NiMH the -dv/dt setting must be as low as possible, I used 3mV for my test, but a lower value might be even better. Too low value will not damage the cell, but might give early termination.
> LSD cells do not need any trickle charge, for other cells a 10mA trickle charge can be used, but it not really needed either (some manufactures recommend a time limited trickle charge after a -dv/dt charge).


----------



## SYZYGY

thanks. for my 2550mAh eneloop pro AAs, i'll try changing from this:

_BATT TYPE: NiMH
MODE: Charge
CAPACITY: 2700mAh
C. CURRENT: 1.00A
D. CURRENT: OFF
C. RESTING: 0min
D.RESTING: OFF
CYCLE COUNT: OFF
CYCLE MODE: OFF
TARGET VOLT: 1.65V
DELTA PEAK: 3mV
TRICKLE C.: OFF
TRICKLE TIME: OFF
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D. REDUCE: OFF
CUT VOLT: OFF
CUT TEMP: 45°C
CUT TIME: OFF_

to this:

BATT TYPE: NiMH
MODE: Charge
*CAPACITY: 3100mAh (1.2x)
C. CURRENT: 1.30A (0.5C)*
D. CURRENT: OFF
C. RESTING: 0min
D.RESTING: OFF
CYCLE COUNT: OFF
CYCLE MODE: OFF
TARGET VOLT: 1.65V
DELTA PEAK: 3mV
TRICKLE C.: OFF
TRICKLE TIME: OFF
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D. REDUCE: OFF
CUT VOLT: OFF
CUT TEMP: 45°C
*CUT TIME: 165min (C/I*1.4 = 2550mAh/1300mA*1.4 = 2.75h)*


----------



## Geppo

Anyway, worn batteries could exhibit a different behavior, missing the end of charge point. As far as I could see, you can get a better behavior lowering delta peak down to 0V (and lowering a bit the charging current).


----------



## tjh

I'm in the market for a new AA/AAA/LiIon charger.
Is the MC3000 still the best beast to get for someone (like me) who loves to fiddle with everything?


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## mactavish

tjh said:


> I'm in the market for a new AA/AAA/LiIon charger.
> Is the MC3000 still the best beast to get for someone (like me) who loves to fiddle with everything?



If there is a better one, I’d be curious. I don’t recommend it for those that just want an auto everything unit. If you like learning all the available settings, and dealing with the interface, it’s great. Having a bit of battery charging knowledge beforehand is helpful.


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## tjh

mactavish said:


> If there is a better one, I’d be curious. I don’t recommend it for those that just want an auto everything unit. If you like learning all the available settings, and dealing with the interface, it’s great. Having a bit of battery charging knowledge beforehand is helpful.


Oh, I had one for years. Loved it. If you read back in this thread you'll see I had to help a bunch of people who thought they'd bricked their charger when they did a FW upgrade. I had the very first version, I even did the fan mod to help keep it cooler, but in the end the plastic posts snapped. I'm thinking of getting another one - but I just wondered before I drop the $$$ on it (it seems to have almost doubled in price since I bought it, but I think I got an earlybird discount maybe) if there was something out there even more nerdy


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## hc900

He has a flaw evident:
While with pulse charging type BT-C700 things usually go well, with adequate current the charging of AA batteries ends quite well.

With constant current charging, the MC3000 has problems finishing the charge: the -Delta V at 0mV works with certain 2500mAh batteries, but with other batteries the charging ends at 60%. In this case the recharge must be set with -Delta V at 3mV.
In other cases, if the charging current is low, such as 400mA, the substantial risk is to go well beyond 100% with obvious consequences.

My conclusion is that with the MC3000 I have to:
1] do some recharging tests with any type of AA or AAA battery
2] write down all problems
3] set the type of recharge in the memory for each brand of batteries
4] set the right current for each model
5] set the -Delta V for each model
6] set the safety timer for each model

The alternative would be to buy only one type of battery, such as Eneloop:
as on the famous HKJ tests, without wasting time analyzing all the possible complications.

Ultimately, with NiMh batteries this is not a fully automatic and foolproof charger.


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## linc90

I recharge quite a lot of different brand aa and aaa nimh on my mc3000. With new cells and healthy cells I never have a problem at all. Only with worn out or very poon health batterys fail to terminate correctly for me.


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## hc900

Known issue for Ni-Mh battery:
it is useful to create a specific charging profile for each problematic battery.

Example
1] Charging current not greater than C/2
2] Maximum capacity with a margin of +10% or 20%
3] Cut Off timer calculated on maximum capacity with margin
4] -Delta V at least -4mV but never zero mV


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## MaestroDaVinci

Is there a website which i can see a list or even best recommendations regarding making a program for the charger?


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## SYZYGY

MaestroDaVinci said:


> Is there a website which i can see a list or even best recommendations regarding making a program for the charger?



no. i wish.

post a specific battery, ideally with a link to its datasheet or detailed specs. maybe someone can help.


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## MaestroDaVinci

Well i was hoping for some site or something, but i guess not.
My main right now are AA, AAA, Li-Ion that are being used.
The AA and AAA are Eneloop white which i have been using for a while, but i don't know the exact additional settings that i need for this specific charger that maybe i could maybe improve the charging. And the Li-Ion, are KeepPower P1826K which i don't know if i need additional settings or just charge them at a specific rate.


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## SYZYGY

MaestroDaVinci said:


> Eneloop white



i'll get you started. the packaging says *C=2000mAh for AA Eneloop White*:

BATT TYPE: NiMH
MODE: Charge
*CAPACITY: 2400mAh (1.2C)
C. CURRENT: 1A (0.5C)*
D. CURRENT: OFF
C. RESTING: 0min
D.RESTING: OFF
CYCLE COUNT: OFF
CYCLE MODE: OFF
TARGET VOLT: 1.65V
DELTA PEAK: 3mV
TRICKLE C.: OFF
TRICKLE TIME: OFF
RESTART VOLT: OFF
D. REDUCE: OFF
CUT VOLT: OFF
CUT TEMP: 45°C
*CUT TIME: 168min (C/I*1.4 = 2000mAh/1000mA*1.4 = 2.8h)*

for discussion about this very thing, read the last page or so.

i leave it as an exercise for you to come up with the AAA profile. just do the same math.


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## MaestroDaVinci

Thank you is there a specific way to make these programs because the charger is very much a huge amount of customization and yet some of the program seems to be off.


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## SYZYGY

i think i just set the charger to advanced mode and then programmed it. if you don't have it in advanced mode, you don't get all the options.

for further information, read the manual i guess or try asking us a specific question. the manual explains how to create programs.


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## AlexLED

Basically, you need one program for each chemistry and capacity, so three in your case.
I usually *only* set the charge current to around 0.5 x capacity (for both NiMH and LiIon). 
I dont even set the CAPACITY and CUT TIME, but of course they are additional safety features - especially if the charged is left unattended. (Which in my case is seldom.)

I started a table with the progams I need ... I need to finish that and will then try to post here.


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## SYZYGY

Geppo said:


> You set a capacity cut value too low. Use Nominal Capacity x 1.2, then 3100mAh for Eneloop Pro AA batteries.
> Anyway Gaudi's suggestions are right. If you set Delta Peak=3mV you should use 0.5C as charging current (as clearly stated by Panasonic).
> Alternatevely (like I do) set Delta Peak=0dV and generally you can lower the charging current down to 0.3C.
> The MC3000 charger uses a constant current charging method (not pulsed) and it is quite critical regarding the detection of the end charging point.



hi geppo,

can you please explain the thought process for lowering the charging current (relative to that used in the negative delta voltage method) when using the zero delta method? i.e. why drop to 0.3C in 0dV if you are ok with 0.5C in -dV. thanks


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## sbj

The thinking behind it is probably:
A lower charging current triggers a lower temperature rise at the end of charging and thus also a lower voltage drop (delta peak) of the battery.

If the delta peak value is set too high, it may not always be reached with a lower charging current (e.g. 0.3C). The charger then does not recognize that the battery is full and continues to charge.

Another thought is:
If the setting: 0.3C charging current and -0dV end-of-charge detection function reliably in order to reliably trigger the end-of-charge detection of the charger, that would be even gentler on the battery due to the lower heating of the battery.

The problem is just:
What usually works well with new batteries often no longer works with older batteries.

Edit: On the other hand, I am of the opinion that with the -0dV setting (if it works), even with somewhat higher charging currents of 0.5 - 0.7C, the heating of the battery remains even low.

The problem with -odV is, that the charger is often switched off much too early.


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## SYZYGY

extra info from the manual



> Delta-peak sensibility. A technical parameter to control charge termination of NiMH/NiCd batteries through the commonly recommended negative delta voltage -dV or -dV/dt method, or through the zero delta voltage method, 0dV or 0dV/dt. When charging a healthy specimen at constant current the voltage graph normally peaks around full charge completion. A higher setting will ensure that this peak has been passed with certainty but will also charge longer than necessary. "0dV" will terminate the charging when the peak extends to a voltage plateau, i.e. does not show a well defined voltage drop. The latter may happen with old batteries or at very low charge rates or both. *As a rule of thumb, use -dV for topped off charging and 0dV as no-brainer in all other cases.*


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## sbj

That sounds like 0dV is the recommended universal setting. 
As I said, if the batteries are in good, like-new condition, I'll be there.

The problem are older batteries. Even with high delta peak settings of 6mV and more, I had premature charging shutdowns with them. And often not just once during a charge.

For such cases I have not yet found a setting where the charger runs through with certainty until it is fully charged.

Even with my much more expensive RC charger, with which I can also set a reflex mode, old NiMh batteries sometimes switch off prematurely


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## AlexLED

sbj said:


> ...
> 
> The problem are older batteries. Even with high delta peak settings of 6mV and more, I had premature charging shutdowns with them. And often not just once during a charge.
> 
> For such cases I have not yet found a setting where the charger runs through with certainty until it is fully charged.
> 
> Even with my much more expensive RC charger, with which I can also set a reflex mode, old NiMh batteries sometimes switch off prematurely


Yes, same for me ... 
The older the batteries, the higher the iR, the wamer they get during charge, leading to dV kicking in and cancelling the charge. 
Maybe try lowering the charge current - of course be carefull, as this can lead to overcharge when using dV for stopping the charge. 

Maybe you can try to lower the iR by revitalizing the cell by discharge to at least 0.9V and then charging with 0.1C for 14 hrs.


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