# PT Apex, still the "best"?



## Avatar28 (Jun 12, 2007)

I had asked once before about the best headlamp for caving. The little RiverRock one from Target just doesn't cut it. Anyways, I never got one at the time because I was still recovering from a shoulder injury and subsequent surgery. Long story short, I hope to be able to go on a trip later this month. At the time of my original question it seemed that the Apex was the overwhelming favorite. My main requirements were good light output and flat regulation for as long as possible, and moderately priced (the $65 for the Apex will be a tough sell to the wife as it is). From what I could gather there hasn't been anything along in the last few months that is likely to have dethroned it. I just wanted to confirm that that is, indeed, the case.


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## Meduza (Jun 12, 2007)

You can make a Seoul mod to the apex, that is "the" thing that makes it better than it is stock


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## Avatar28 (Jun 12, 2007)

Meduza said:


> You can make a Seoul mod to the apex, that is "the" thing that makes it better than it is stock



Yes, I had heard about these "mod" things. What are they? ;-) No, seriously, I know that's something a lot of people do. I will try to find one of the instructional threads on it but I'm at work and CPF is proxied out (says it's a forum of all things!) so I have to sidestep it, meaning that it's rather slow access. So, to save me a bit of trouble, about what do the Seoul P4 LEDs that I would need to do the mod run and how much, if any, does it affect the regulation time and flatness? It wouldn't be the first time I bought something and voided the warranty 10 minutes after I got it.


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## scottaw (Jun 12, 2007)

Im a big fan of my Apex Pro (pro just uses 123's) It runs a very long time, BUT there are some new drawbacks popping up. When i bought my headlamp, i paid over $80, and loved it (still do, don't get me wrong). But now since the Cree/Seoul revolution, it seems dim on high. If i were going to buy another headlamp, i would wait for some new technology, especially when for $80 you could buy a seriously high powered torch and a cheap headlamp.


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## CM (Jun 12, 2007)

scottaw said:


> Im a big fan of my Apex Pro (pro just uses 123's) It runs a very long time, BUT there are some new drawbacks popping up. When i bought my headlamp, i paid over $80, and loved it (still do, don't get me wrong). But now since the Cree/Seoul revolution, it seems dim on high. If i were going to buy another headlamp, i would wait for some new technology, especially when for $80 you could buy a seriously high powered torch and a cheap headlamp.



Replace the LED with Seoul. My guess is that it will take a while for some of the manufacturers to embrace the newer LED's and that by the time they do, we're already off to something better  You could be waiting for a while and you'll always be behind "outdated".


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## cave dave (Jun 12, 2007)

Avatar28 said:


> ... about what do the Seoul P4 LEDs that I would need to do the mod run and how much, if any, does it affect the regulation time and flatness? It wouldn't be the first time I bought something and voided the warranty 10 minutes after I got it.



The P4 LED is about $10 shipped, plus you will need Thermal epoxy, and a reflector. You can get all from PhotonFanatic. If you keep the original optic it will almost double the brightness, it won't effect runtime or regulation. 

If you switch to a reflector the mod is a little harder. In the case of the IMS 17 and writerite light diffuser combo I used, the spot stayed about the same brightness but the spill got much bigger and brighter. There are a variety of other reflector options. I would recommend the reflector for caving, in some ways the P4 Mod on the optic is almost too bright for caving even on the low. You will want the spill from a reflector to see the area around your feet.

Another cheaper and lighter option is to get and EOS and mod it. The high will now be almost as bright as the stock Apex and Med will run 10 hours regulated. The EOS P4 on Med is definitely enough for caving. I would rather have a modded EOS then a stock Apex.

Here is what the Apex looks like inside.


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## Avatar28 (Jun 12, 2007)

scottaw said:


> Im a big fan of my Apex Pro (pro just uses 123's) It runs a very long time, BUT there are some new drawbacks popping up. When i bought my headlamp, i paid over $80, and loved it (still do, don't get me wrong). But now since the Cree/Seoul revolution, it seems dim on high. If i were going to buy another headlamp, i would wait for some new technology, especially when for $80 you could buy a seriously high powered torch and a cheap headlamp.



Except that when caving your headlamp is your primary light and flat regulation is a good thing. Most of the cheaper headlamps don't have nearly the quality of regulation of the Apex from what I've seen. As several have suggested, I could just mod in a P4.

Speaking of, I haven't had much luck so far finding the mod instructions to see what exactly is involved. I assume it would be in the mod section, right?

cave_dave, regarding modding an EOS, what does the regulation on the EOS look like and what kind of runtime would I expect on high if I get 10 hrs on low? Or do you think that low will be plenty bright for caving? The EOS runs on AAA batteries, right? I know with the AA rechargables to look for the ones with letters stamped on the bottom as some of the best (I forget the letters but I know them when I see it). Are the AAAs similar? 

The cave I hope to be going to later this month is a pretty big borehole (main tunnel 50-60 ft across maybe) and has some largish rooms so I want to make sure I have plenty of light available if I need it.


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## cave dave (Jun 12, 2007)

EOS runtime charts here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/105241

P4 mod instructions are in several different threads, its best to read all the mod thread you can find:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/162784
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/152039


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## Beaker (Jun 12, 2007)

Avatar28 said:


> I had asked once before about the best headlamp for caving. The little RiverRock one from Target just doesn't cut it. Anyways, I never got one at the time because I was still recovering from a shoulder injury and subsequent surgery. Long story short, I hope to be able to go on a trip later this month. At the time of my original question it seemed that the Apex was the overwhelming favorite. My main requirements were good light output and flat regulation for as long as possible, and moderately priced (the $65 for the Apex will be a tough sell to the wife as it is). From what I could gather there hasn't been anything along in the last few months that is likely to have dethroned it. I just wanted to confirm that that is, indeed, the case.



IMHO the *best* headlight for caving is unquestionably the Stenlight... but at $300+ fora typical setup it's spendy and more than you specified.

BUT IMHO the PT Apex is the best bang for the buck right now. (But NOT the Apex Pro, which uses CR123 instead of AA... maybe backpackers looking to save half a gram are willing to put up with those, but not cavers!)


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## Avatar28 (Jun 13, 2007)

Thanks, cave_dave! Good reading.



Beaker said:


> IMHO the *best* headlight for caving is unquestionably the Stenlight... but at $300+ fora typical setup it's spendy and more than you specified.
> 
> BUT IMHO the PT Apex is the best bang for the buck right now. (But NOT the Apex Pro, which uses CR123 instead of AA... maybe backpackers looking to save half a gram are willing to put up with those, but not cavers!)



Agreed. No way would I EVER be able to convince the other half that a $300+ light is a good thing. The Apex is going to be a hard enough sell. Would I be right in guessing that a modded Apex would kick out about as much light as the Sten though? I mean, the Sten has two 3 watt Luxeons, right? The P4s are about twice as efficient as the Luxeons so a single P4 should be similar brightness, no?

In any case, I am still leaning towards the Apex at the moment if only because I'm a sucker for having a bright light. I can always run it on it's lower settings, right? I also like the fact that the Apex has the 5mm LEDs for a floodier close-up light though if they're very blue I think they'll have to go so that I can find something with a nicer white shade. I think I'm too anal about that sometimes. I can't stand incandescent lights anymore. They're generally much too yellow. LEDs with a major bluish tinge are equally as bad. I can tolerate a faint blue tint, the kind that still looks mostly white. I know the Nichias in the Apex tend to be a bit bluish so I guess I will just play it by ear, er eye.


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## peteybaby (Jun 13, 2007)

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=141392
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=154405
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=155024


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## barkingmad (Jun 13, 2007)

Another +1 for the EOS (modded) - very easy to do and one of the big things I like is the single headband (just around the sides rather than over your head) plus the battery pack is integral.

Takes 3 x AAA batteries - would probably recommend rechargeable Sanyo Eneloop AAA's (if you might not use / charge it as frequently) or their 1000mah (non-LSD) NiMH batteries for maximum capacity / runtime.


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## scottaw (Jun 13, 2007)

Please don't think my first post was in any way bashing the apex, i love mine, i promise. 

As far as seoul modding mine, im a little leery of taking apart expensive things that still have warranties. Don't get me wrong, i'd love a seoul in there, but i just don't know the first thing about modding.

And as far as 123A's, i don't carry them b/c they're lighter or anything, it's just that a lot of my lights use them, so they've become standard fare around my house, and i find them very reliable.


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## Beaker (Jun 13, 2007)

Avatar28 said:


> Agreed. No way would I EVER be able to convince the other half that a $300+ light is a good thing. The Apex is going to be a hard enough sell. Would I be right in guessing that a modded Apex would kick out about as much light as the Sten though? I mean, the Sten has two 3 watt Luxeons, right? The P4s are about twice as efficient as the Luxeons so a single P4 should be similar brightness, no?
> 
> In any case, I am still leaning towards the Apex at the moment if only because I'm a sucker for having a bright light. I can always run it on it's lower settings, right? I also like the fact that the Apex has the 5mm LEDs for a floodier close-up light though if they're very blue I think they'll have to go so that I can find something with a nicer white shade. I think I'm too anal about that sometimes. I can't stand incandescent lights anymore. They're generally much too yellow. LEDs with a major bluish tinge are equally as bad. I can tolerate a faint blue tint, the kind that still looks mostly white. I know the Nichias in the Apex tend to be a bit bluish so I guess I will just play it by ear, er eye.



No idea about modding -- that's not my thing. 

In smallish (Northern California) caves, running the 5mm leds on "hi" is plenty of light... I find that I run that way 95% of the time, with occasional switch to the 3W center Luxeon for spot work. Using hi-capacity NiMH AA's I get about 8hours runtime that way.


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## Strauss (Jun 13, 2007)

I have an Apex Pro and love it. I run 3.7V RCR's in it, and if I am going on a long trip I just bring some spare primaries with me. I used mine stock for quite awhile, but have since swapped to a Seoul P4 LED and an IMS 20mm reflector. I did have to shave down the top off the reflector to get it to fit.....but it was worth it :twothumbs

I did some metering with my lightbox before and after the LED swap. These were my results(all figures are actual "torch" lumens):

Stock:
high- ~55 lumens 
low- ~25 lumens

Seoul P4 LED w/ reflector:
high- ~130 lumens
low- ~60 lumens 

Swapping the LED and optic out was a HUGE improvement. Wonderful tint(USVOI emitter), blinding output, and a very smooth beam. If you need any help with modding yours, I would be more than happy to help.


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## f22shift (Jun 14, 2007)

what about the newer river rock k2 headlamp? 25 bux at target. 85 lumens on high
beam a bit tight for close up work.


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## Sarratt (Jun 14, 2007)

A word of warning/advice..... don't get the Orange colour Apex. All others are fine but the orange has had incidents of slight but visible cracks.


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## cave dave (Jun 14, 2007)

f22shift said:


> what about the newer river rock k2 headlamp? 25 bux at target. 85 lumens on high
> beam a bit tight for close up work.


There have been reports that if you leave it on continuously it overheats and melts the plastic. You get what you pay for I guess.


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## f22shift (Jun 14, 2007)

Yeah i saw that thread. I bought one anyway and ran it for 2 hours straight and although it got hot it never melted. I dumped it since i felt it was uncomfortable to have the extra weight of a back battery pack. I still think it's a good value for someone looking for a nice output . It's easy to return if it doesn't live up to someone's standard.


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## greenLED (Jun 14, 2007)

Strauss said:


> Swapping the LED and optic out was a HUGE improvement. Wonderful tint(USVOI emitter), blinding output, and a very smooth beam. If you need any help with modding yours, I would be more than happy to help.


Could you please post pics of your modded Apex? I thought the IMS20 was too small compared to the stock optic to fit. Have you tried it with the stock optic?


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## Avatar28 (Jun 15, 2007)

Strauss said:


> I have an Apex Pro and love it. I run 3.7V RCR's in it, and if I am going on a long trip I just bring some spare primaries with me. I used mine stock for quite awhile, but have since swapped to a Seoul P4 LED and an IMS 20mm reflector. I did have to shave down the top off the reflector to get it to fit.....but it was worth it :twothumbs
> 
> I did some metering with my lightbox before and after the LED swap. These were my results(all figures are actual "torch" lumens):
> 
> ...



I second the call for pics if you can. I don't like the look of the 17mm reflector. that would only work for me if I could get something to fill in the gap around it. How do you go about shaving the reflector?



Sarratt said:


> A word of warning/advice..... don't get the Orange colour Apex. All others are fine but the orange has had incidents of slight but visible cracks.



Crap! Now you tell me. I already bought and paid for mine yesterday.


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## yellow (Jun 15, 2007)

just to comment on the "still the best"-claim.

imho it has never been the best:
too quick on overheating, useless multilevel, questionable emitter choice.
(thats a bit too extreme, but to get the point...)
4 light levels that are all to question:
full --> 1.5 hour. :thinking: nice one but what gives? If there is such a level, there HAS to be another level just a bit lower, say 3 hours
Lux low: 9 hours = Led high: 9 hours, wow, who had this idea?
Led low: 14 hours - again, who had this idea? Much to SHORT runtime for the total low level.

Imagine the following:
an Apex with the EOS circuit and maybe also those 5 mm led things, but with some 30 hour and 100-150 hour levels, for those ppl that want the flood part of them.
Now considering the Cree revolution, such a light with a SSC/Cree, then it would be "perfect"


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## Beaker (Jun 15, 2007)

Avatar28 said:


> Crap! Now you tell me. I already bought and paid for mine yesterday.



I've had an orange Apex for a year with no visible cracking.


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## greenLED (Jun 15, 2007)

Beaker said:


> I've had an orange Apex for a year with no visible cracking.


AFAIK, that was an *old* problem they had with a torque wrench setting in their assembly line. The thread about that (with pics and the full explanation from PT) is somewhere in the archives.


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## f22shift (Jun 15, 2007)

i've read that the complaint about the orange was that the casing lights up which can be distracting for some.


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## yellow (Jun 15, 2007)

I remember the same as Greenled,
the "orange housing problem" has been identified with these screws thightened too much,
the defective ones have been exchanged
and the problem has never been heared again


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## TorchBoy (Jun 15, 2007)

yellow said:


> Lux low: 9 hours = Led high: 9 hours, wow, who had this idea?
> Led low: 14 hours - again, who had this idea? Much to SHORT runtime for the total low level.


Could it be they were chosen for the amount of light at those settings rather than purely on runtime?


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## yellow (Jun 16, 2007)

sure, thats why I do agree on the 5mms to be added to the "perfect" Apex,
but the difference in the 5mms two levels is not enough.

still, the Apex basically has 2 "useful" runtime levels: 9 hours and 14 hours
(and thats what keeps me from getting one)
As typed: an Eos with the Apex batt-pack would be the more useful light instantly. Give it the 5mms leds for the flood-guys (with two much more different rumtimes) and add a ~3 hour turbo mode for the main beam ...

PS, as I have never heared of this: how is the light from the 5mms in the Apex?
All the 5mms mounted in lights I have seen so far, were more or less ugly blue. I would exchange them to sunny-white or similar, or just not use them, when this is the same


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## cave dave (Jun 16, 2007)

The 5 MM on the Apex are typical Nichia. I never use them since I put in a reflector. That gives me all the flood I need. I would rather PT ditched the 5mm's all together, put in a reflector and gave us a third or forth lower level. Basically a AA EOS with batteries in the back.


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## Strauss (Jun 16, 2007)

I will try to get some pics up by the end of the day. I will probably just start a new thread with some beamshots as well. Keep your eyes open for the new thread in this section


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## greenLED (Jun 16, 2007)

yellow said:


> PS, as I have never heared of this: how is the light from the 5mms in the Apex?


Plenty bright and floody, even at low level. They're Nichias, AFAIK, so you get the typical "blue halos" (which can be fixed by sanding the dome). It's been a while since I've worried about tints, so it doesn't bug me at all.


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## Avatar28 (Jun 16, 2007)

greenLED said:


> Plenty bright and floody, even at low level. They're Nichias, AFAIK, so you get the typical "blue halos" (which can be fixed by sanding the dome). It's been a while since I've worried about tints, so it doesn't bug me at all.



I got my Apex in the mail today. Considering I just ordered it on Thursday afternoon, that's pretty impressive.

Anyways I played with it for a few minutes using the included Energizer alkaline batteries in a darkened but not totally dark room. My first thoughts were that it was not as bright as I had expected, but the brightness level in the room was similar to that twilight time when it's really hard to see. It's too bright for your dark vision to really kick in, but too dark for good daylight vision. You know what I'm talking about. I'm also sick at the moment with strep and I've been taking hydrocodone for my sore throat and that also seems to make things look somewhat odd. I expect I will play with it a bit more tonight too. Another thing that caught my by surprise was the difference in color rendering between the 5mm and the Luxeon LEDs. Our room is a moderately dark purple color. With the 5mm LEDs shining on the wall it definitely looked more blue compared to the Luxeon which seemed to give a more accurate color, at least in the hot spot. On the other hand, when I aimed the light elsewhere the floodier part of the 5mm LEDs seemed to be a fairly nice, white tint, though the center was more blue colored. The Luxeon seemed to be slightly more blue than the flood part of the Nichias but less so than the center.

Anyways, those are just first impressions from a few minutes with it. One question though. Should I expect lower light output levels from rechargeable batteries? I thought the Apex used a constant current source while in regulation, but I also seem to remember someone saying something to the effect that you sacrifice some light output with rechargeables but gain battery life because alkalines get beat up by the current draw.


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## GCBStokes (Jun 17, 2007)

Avatar28,



> Crap! Now you tell me. I already bought and paid for mine yesterday.


I was just at Princeton Tec yesterday and was talking with a few people. One of the people who I talked with was a guy who actually assembles the Headlamps and makes repairs to them as well. One of the things we talked about was the problems with the orange Apex Headlamps. They did indeed have a problem with a few cracking. However, this was not because of bad materials, the orange Apex Headlamps are made from the very same materials as the other colors. The problem was with some runs that were assembled with a torque setting that was too high on the machine that drives the screws during assembly. The very same problem showed up in some Black and Olive Drab Apex Lamps as well. I had one of them and two researchers that work with me had Apex Headlamps with cracks where the screws are driven to hold the headlamp together. And one (Olive Drab) had the crack around the lens just like the orange Apex Headlamps that had the same problem.

The problem with the cracking Apex Headlamps has been remedied by Princeton Tech and your should not have a problem. However, if you still feel uncomfortable about the orange Apex, just keep it in the box and send it back for an exchange for a different color. I just don't believe it will be necessary, if you like the orange Apex then I would stick with it. However, if you do ever have a problem with you headlamp, Princeton Tech will stand by their product, and they will replace you headlamp without hassle. They are wonderful people to deal with when needed. I have three Apex Headlamp (Black, Orange and Olive Drab) and my wife has an orange Apex. I also have 3 EOS Headlamps (Black, Orange and Olive Drab) and my three kids all have EOS Headlamps. I have 12 researcher that work for me and all have at least one Apex and one EOS (Most have two of each), and we all use our headlamps extensively. I also have 7 friends who I do lots of camping, hiking and fishing with who have Apex and EOS headlamps as well as a few other Princeton Tech Headlamps. And the three headlamps with the cracks where the only problems that any of us ever had. 

I lucky enough to live just a few minute away from the Princeton Tech Factory. So, when I call about the crack problems, they told me to stop in and they would take care of the problems for me. I got there a few minutes later, the guy came out to the lobby and I showed him the three cracked headlamps, and he replaced them with three new headlamps right of the assemble line. Then we talked awhile, he took the time to show me around and told me how things were done. Then he gave me his card and told me if I ever had any problems or had any questions to feel free to call him anytime. I just can't say enough about how good Princeton Tech was to deal with. I did ask about the new High Power LED such as Cree and Seoul LEDs, and this is something we will talk about next week. With luck, perhaps I can talk Princeton Tech into put these new LEDs into their Headlamps. Then everyone won't have to mod their lamps. To be honest, the Apex is fine just the way it is it more then bright enough for just about anything, if fact it's too bright for much and you have to go with the low 3 watt setting or the 5 mm LEDs for close or medium range work. Even with out the upgrade or Mod with a Cree or Seoul LED, it's one heck of a headlamp. I'm very confidant that your going to love you Apex Headlamp. But if you can get even more light with no lose in runtime, then why not I say.


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## cave dave (Jun 17, 2007)

The Apex is supposedly waterproof down to one meter, but of the three I have tried everyone will leak water into the head if placed in a sink. They are fine in the rain though. I have been debating on returning the one non-modded one I have for this reason. 

As far as the cracks, I suspect they all could have that problem, you just couldn't see the cracks in the other colors.


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## TorchBoy (Jun 17, 2007)

cave dave said:


> ... everyone will leak water into the head if placed in a sink.




I think you mean "every one" with a space. :twothumbs

Made my evening, that did.


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## cave dave (Jun 17, 2007)

Maybe I shouldn't have tested the waterproofness with the light still on my head? Both were leaky


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## Avatar28 (Jun 17, 2007)

Well I definitely see a mod for this thing in my future. I like the light but it is definitely not as bright as I sort of expected. For instance, I've got one of these lights as well. I had somehow rather expected the Apex to be at least somewhat close to it, but apparently not. I can step outside my house at night and shine both lights on a wall maybe 50 yards away. The Apex I can't really see but the other light still shows up decently. So, yeah, mod time.


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## Beaker (Jun 17, 2007)

GCBStokes said:


> With luck, perhaps I can talk Princeton Tech into put these new LEDs into their Headlamps. Then everyone won't have to mod their lamps. To be honest, the Apex is fine just the way it is it more then bright enough for just about anything, if fact it's too bright for much and you have to go with the low 3 watt setting or the 5 mm LEDs for close or medium range work.



It's more the increased efficiency I'm interested in with Cree (etc) LEDs. I use the 3W only a small amount of the time, but having a 50% increased runtime at the same output would be a HUGE win for cavers...


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## GCBStokes (Jun 18, 2007)

Beaker,


> It's more the increased efficiency I'm interested in with Cree (etc) LEDs. I use the 3W only a small amount of the time, but having a 50% increased runtime at the same output would be a HUGE win for cavers...


I feel the same and I'm really happy with my Apex Headlamps as is. My Apex Headlamps are more then bright enough, in most cases too bright on the high 3 watt setting. When hiking and working in the forests at night, I use my Apex Headlamp in the low 3 watt setting. When working in our vehicles and recording data we use our Apex Headlamps on the Low 5mm LED setting.

With the new Sanyo 2700 mAh NiMH AA's, I get well over four hours (Most of the time just about 4 Hours 20 Minutes) of regulated runtime on the High 3 watt setting. And though I've never done a runtime test on the Low 3 watt setting, I find it's over 14 hours of regulated runtime. This is great runtime, but if that can be improved on with a Cree or Seoul LED, then that would be truly wonderful. And to get more light at the same time, that would be fabulous!


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## GCBStokes (Jun 18, 2007)

Cave Dave,


> The Apex is supposedly waterproof down to one meter, but of the three I have tried everyone will leak water into the head if placed in a sink. They are fine in the rain though. I have been debating on returning the one non-modded one I have for this reason.


 
I've have heard of some people having this problem, so I thought it would be wise to test our headlamps. We never had any problems with out headlamps, and we've been using ours in all weather extremes including heavy rain, sleet, snow and freezing rain. So, while wearing the headlamps we had no problems, meaning they are indeed weather proof, I wanted to test our headlamps just to be safe and to know they are water proof as well. To test our headlamps, I first submersed them in 3 feet of water for 10 minutes using a rubber band to hold the headlamps to the bottom of my parents pool ladder where one would enter the deep end of the swimming pool. And afterwards I used the garden hose to spay them for 5 minute to remove any residue of chlorine, then I used a towel to dry the headlamps and to wipe clean. And I'm pleased to report that all was fine and we had no water entry in any of our headlamps (I was able to test a total of 11 of our headlamps). Two headlamp did have very slight water entry in the battery pack so I cleaned and applied silicon grease to the o-ring.

Was the water entry problem you had with modded Apex Headlamps? I'm not very knowledgeable and I must rely on the people here on the candlepowerforum and other sources to learn about headlamps, batteries and chargers and I'm still learning. However, talking with Princeton Tech, they say once the headlamp is opened it may not properly seal when reassembled. A friend says it should not be a problem when reassembled properly and that the 0-rings should be cleaned and one should apply silicon grease to the o-ring when the reassembling is done.

We have been thinking about having our work headlamps modded, but we have decided not to do to the fact that it would void our warranty. I'm talking about the headlamp bought with funding for our research. However, I do have two Apex Headlamps that are my personal headlamps that I bought with my own money. Some of my friends and people I work with also have their own personal Apex Headlamps as well. I'm thinking about modding at least one of my Apex Headlamps as well as one of my EOS Headlamps. However, I am concerned about then having a water entry problem if modded.

We are very happy with our Apex Headlamps as is, and we feel that modding the headlamps may not be worth it if it leads to problems afterwards and voids our warranty as well. We have seen two modded headlamps, and though they are brighter and have a nicer beam, the advantage is not earth shaking. The strange thing is, some of our headlamps seem brighter then others and have better color. What we have found is that the orange Apex Lamp have a warmer light and have a amber tint, the Olive Drab headlamps have a whiter light, and seem brighter and the black had lamps seem brighter as well, but with a very slight blue or purple tint. This tint is very slight with the black Apex Headlamps and if favored by most that I work with and people I camp and hike with. It's also my favorite. So, if I modded one of my lights, I would mod my orange Apex. I also think it would be better to mod my EOS Headlamp first do to the fact that the Apex Headlamps though would be better modded, are still great headlamps as is. The EOS being not as bright, I feel would benefit more from being modded.

Thanks for your time Cave Dave, and I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of others regarding this matter as well.


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