# Easy Maglite 5D/4D upgrades? Want to stay incan



## ozrj (Mar 8, 2016)

Hi,

New poster - I've read around the forum a lot and didn't find the answers I'm after. If I missed something, I apologise and would appreciate a friendly pointer to the right place.
Amazing forum in any case - I've kept coming back here when searching for information, so here we go!

I've recently bought a Maglite 5D incan, Tenergy Premium 10Ah NiMH D cells, and a 4D Magnum Star II replacement bulb.
The idea being that 5 NiMHs should give about the same voltage as 4 alkalines, i.e. 6V.

Seems to be a tad more - the Tenergys seem to settle in at about 1.37V. So far, the 4D bulb works fine, and gives better light than the original 5D one, but I still find it underwhelming overall. Brightness is very similar to a $5 LED flashlight I bought on eBay a while ago that runs on one 18650, though that one gives much more even light.

I'd like to stay with incandescent as I'm after a continuous spectrum for photography, but I'd like a lot more light.
I have looked at the ROP and other mods, but am looking for a cheaper and less involved solution - which will obviously be inferior, but hopefully still better than what I have now.

I've already spent more than I initially intended - not much of a market here in Oz, and postage is expensive.
Meaning I'd really like to make the best use of what I already have, as in the lamp itself and the batteries, rather than having to buy different ones.

So my questions are:
* are there any drop-in bulb replacements with higher light output that I could use?
If so, where should I look? I don't know what the socket is - seems the pins are 2.5mm apart.
* how far can I go in terms of bulb wattage before I need to replace reflector, window, socket, switch, or any other parts?
* are there any easy/affordable mods that would significantly improve any of the above? (E.g. replacing the socket - not sure if that's even possible - or just the window, i.e. the cheaper bits.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Cheers from Oz

rj


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## Minimoog (Mar 8, 2016)

Welcome to CPF!

Well my suggestion is simple, try one upgrade at a time. The plastic lens can be replaced with coated glass (gives a tiny bit more light) and the stock reflector can of course be upgraded to one with a softer beam with less holes and rings.

So, lets answer your questions:

* are there any drop-in bulb replacements with higher light output that I could use?
If so, where should I look? I don't know what the socket is - seems the pins are 2.5mm apart.
That bulb pattern is impossible to upgrade, however if you unscrew the holder retaining ring you will see the original PR socket still there - you may need to file out the metal ring to allow some bulbs to fit. Bulbs I recommend are the Reflectalite 10 Watt halogen http://www.bikeco.co.uk/index.php?mod=productDetail&itemid=214 which has about double the usual output, plus a nice fat hotspot.
* how far can I go in terms of bulb wattage before I need to replace reflector, window, socket, switch, or any other parts? Around 15 Watts for the reflector, other parts are well built so next I would upgrade to a glass lens to let more light out.
* are there any easy/affordable mods that would significantly improve any of the above? (E.g. replacing the socket - not sure if that's even possible - or just the window, i.e. the cheaper bits.)
The bulb I suggested and a glass lens are a real good start - just need to take out the bi-pin bulb holder. I did that to mine, you can always put it back.

Good luck - and I'm sure others will chime in.




ozrj said:


> Hi,
> 
> New poster - I've read around the forum a lot and didn't find the answers I'm after. If I missed something, I apologise and would appreciate a friendly pointer to the right place.
> Amazing forum in any case - I've kept coming back here when searching for information, so here we go!
> ...


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## fivemega (Mar 8, 2016)

ozrj said:


> The idea being that 5 NiMHs should give about the same voltage as 4 alkalines, i.e. 6V.


*This could be true when open circuit but under load, different story.*



ozrj said:


> I'd like to stay with incandescent as I'm after a continuous spectrum for photography, but I'd like a lot more light.


*You are absolutely correct but lot more light requires more wattage.*



ozrj said:


> I have looked at the ROP and other mods, but am looking for a cheaper and less involved solution - which will obviously be inferior, but hopefully still better than what I have now.


*ROP bulbs are discontinued and very hard to find.*



ozrj said:


> not much of a market here in Oz, and postage is expensive


*You can save some shipping when ordering different items from same place if possible.*



ozrj said:


> * are there any drop-in bulb replacements with higher light output that I could use?
> If so, where should I look? I don't know what the socket is - seems the pins are 2.5mm apart.


*Many high wattage bulbs are G4 pins (4mm apart) which may fit in stock plastic socket but will melt in short time.*



ozrj said:


> * how far can I go in terms of bulb wattage before I need to replace reflector, window, socket, switch, or any other parts?


*About 10 watt bulb.
This also depends how hard is driven the bulb, how long continuous on and specially faced down or...*



ozrj said:


> * are there any easy/affordable mods that would significantly improve any of the above? (E.g. replacing the socket - not sure if that's even possible - or just the window, i.e. the cheaper bits.)


*Even if you find 24 watt ROP bulb, replacing lens and reflector is necessary.
My recommendation is to use 30 watt Philips 5761, install ceramic socket, aluminum reflector and Pyrex lens.
5 NiMH D cells will run this bulb at spec with close to 2 hours of run time.* :twothumbs:


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## ozrj (Mar 9, 2016)

Thank you for the welcome and the replies, Minimoog & fivemega - this is exactly the sort of information I was after. 

So my options are
* stage 1: glass (presumably Pyrex) window and Reflectalite GH24
Seems simple and cheap enough to just give it a try.
* stage 2: add aluminium reflector and ceramic socket, and use Philips 5761
30W seems promising, 2 hours runtime should be fine, and "to spec" sounds like the bulb should last for a while.

A bunch of good points there, too:
* I noticed that the Maglite appears to have the same retainer ring that came with the 4D bulb, along with the socket adapter, but didn't investigate further. Great to know the other socket is still there (and I now have two retainer rings, so can file one out)
* How hard driven and how long: not sure how to answer the hard-driven part, but typical use pattern is at most a couple of minutes at a time, then a couple of minutes rest. I understand that there are a bunch of factors that make a difference to how long the original parts hold up.
* Yes, I understand that the voltage will drop under load. No idea how much, though - perhaps my assumptions were a bit naive! Would definitely be interested to know more about details, how NiMH compare to Alkalines, and what the impact of the higher starting voltage is on the lifetime of the bulb. I've read up a bit on the GH24 and the general suggestion seems to be to run it off 6 NiMHs. I have five, however they're D cells, and the pages I've read all referred to AAs, which I suspect makes a difference in how far the voltage drops (as well as starting current, and again impact on life-time). Again, no idea but definitely willing to learn.
* Point taken regarding consolidated shipping, thanks. Would you have any suggestions for suppliers to check out that have all the parts you suggested?

Thanks again, much appreciate all the input.

Cheers from Oz,

rj


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## Chicken Drumstick (Mar 9, 2016)

ozrj said:


> I'd like to stay with incandescent as I'm after a continuous spectrum for photography, but I'd like a lot more light.


What sort of photography?

I wonder if your biggest issue is the Mag has a fairly large smooth reflector, this means it tends to give you quite a focused beam, rather than a large flood light area. If this isn't what you want, then you'll probably struggle to overcome it. Of course you can take the head off and use it in candle mode for the ultimate flood light experience. But an incan bulb only makes so many lumens and it really won't be that bright doing this.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Mar 9, 2016)

Thinking a little further, if you are wanting incan light at high output and wide area coverage, then you may need to custom build something that uses a car like headlight bulb and a 12v power source.


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## ozrj (Mar 9, 2016)

Chicken Drumstick said:


> What sort of photography?



Long exposures, using the flashlight to selectively illuminate selected areas.



> I wonder if your biggest issue is the Mag has a fairly large smooth reflector, this means it tends to give you quite a focused beam, rather than a large flood light area. If this isn't what you want, then you'll probably struggle to overcome it. Of course you can take the head off and use it in candle mode for the ultimate flood light experience. But an incan bulb only makes so many lumens and it really won't be that bright doing this.



A focused beam is what I'm after, but it needs to be rather bright.



> Thinking a little further, if you are wanting incan light at high output and wide area coverage, then you may need to custom build something that uses a car like headlight bulb and a 12v power source.



Yes, I can see that that could gain quite impressive results, though at the cost of portability. Though if the specs advertised for PowerBank and similar packs are for real, that might even be a feasible option. Hm, interesting idea, if for a separate project - thanks!


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## apete2 (Mar 10, 2016)

For photo uses, you could take the 4D and run 4x IMR 26650 with an MR16 bulb, 10-100 watts available. You don't need a reflector or lens then, only a bipin socket.


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## ozrj (Mar 11, 2016)

apete2 said:


> For photo uses, you could take the 4D and run 4x IMR 26650 with an MR16 bulb, 10-100 watts available. You don't need a reflector or lens then, only a bipin socket.



Wow, that sounds like a nice option, too!
I get the feeling that I should've asked here before buying all the bits & pieces I already have...

Where would I get the socket adapters, either for G4 or MR14?

Don't these standard halogen bulbs dissipate a lot of heat to the back, i.e. wouldn't the internals get very hot with that option?
And how much current can the original switch handle?

So it seems there's two options for stage 2:
* metal reflector, Pyrex window, ceramic G4 socket and Philips 5761, or
* 4x 26650, (ceramic?) MR14 socket, and stock Halogen bulb

Do those bulbs fit into the original head, or would that then have to stay off?


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## apete2 (Mar 11, 2016)

Fivemega sells the GY6.35 and dropin MR16 sockets here. THe MR16 bulbs reflect most of the heat out the front. Depending how long your cells are, you may need to use the 5D light. They will fit in the head no problem.


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## ozrj (Mar 11, 2016)

apete2 said:


> Fivemega sells the GY6.35 and dropin MR16 sockets here. THe MR16 bulbs reflect most of the heat out the front. Depending how long your cells are, you may need to use the 5D light. They will fit in the head no problem.



Thank you for the information, apete2.

I guess my subject is misleading - I only have a 5D but (perhaps wrongly) thought that with NiMH cells it would behave like a 4D with alkalines in terms of lamp upgrades, etc. The wrong forum for me to try and dumb things down - people here know a lot more about every aspect of this than I do. (Which is, of course, why I am here.)

I thought I had seen earlier posts from fivemega regarding the sockets, but haven't quite worked out how the marketplace works, as in how to find specific items. Will have another go at that and ask again if I can't figure it out. Unless someone has a direct pointer for a newbie.

Thank you everyone for all the information, I much appreciate it.
Am I allowed to use this yet? lovecpf I think it's warranted.


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## peter yetman (Mar 12, 2016)

Just saw this..
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...s-LEDs-Drivers-and-more&p=4858269#post4858269
Might help.
P


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## ozrj (Mar 12, 2016)

Thank you, Peter!

http://asflashlights.com/-diy-parts/42-mr16-bi-pin-lamp-socket-for-maglite.html

looks promising. I thought I saw them offered on the forum as well, but not the G4 sockets, or at least no current offer, and neither for metal reflectors.
Still looking for a supplier that can deliver those, plus the Philips bulb, the metal reflector and the glass window, so I can save on postage as fivemega suggested.
Still my preferred option, I think. MR-16 seems like a nice plan b, though I'd have to buy new batteries and it's nice to be able to adjust the beam.


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## ozrj (Mar 12, 2016)

ozrj said:


> Still looking for a supplier that can deliver those, plus the Philips bulb, the metal reflector and the glass window, so I can save on postage as fivemega suggested.



Just to add the info, what I found is this:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?284623-G4-Bi-Pin-PR-Sockets-By-FiveMega-(6th-Run)
for the sockets, windows and bulbs; and reflectors here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?277235-Bi-Focal-M*g-Reflector-By-FiveMega-(2)

All looking good, all from one supplier, even looks affordable, just not available. :mecry:


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## fivemega (Mar 12, 2016)

ozrj said:


> All looking good, all from one supplier, even looks affordable, just not available. :mecry:



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...mm-Ceramic-socket-for-MR11-Reflectorized-Bulb

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?306603-6.35-Socket-by-fivemega

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?382327-Bi-Focal-Camless-Reflector-By-Fivemega


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## ozrj (Mar 13, 2016)

fivemega said:


> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...mm-Ceramic-socket-for-MR11-Reflectorized-Bulb
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?306603-6.35-Socket-by-fivemega
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?382327-Bi-Focal-Camless-Reflector-By-Fivemega



Ah, now I get it - thank you, fivemega!

The 6.35 (multi) socket is pretty drastic - no half-measures & no way back, but looks good!
I'm just verifying that I can actually disassemble the whole thing and am not quite there yet, but meanwhile, if you don't mind, two more questions:
* do you also offer the Philips 5761? (Couldn't find it, thought I'd ask...)
* what would be the cost for combined postage for the 6.35 socket, window, reflector, and, say, three bulbs?

Cheers!


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## fivemega (Mar 13, 2016)

ozrj said:


> * do you also offer the Philips 5761? (Couldn't find it, thought I'd ask...)


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?382324-Custom-amp-Modified-Super-Bulbs


ozrj said:


> * what would be the cost for combined postage for the 6.35 socket, window, reflector, and, say, three bulbs?


*This is not right place for this kind of discussion. PM works better.*


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## ozrj (Mar 16, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> Bulbs I recommend are the Reflectalite 10 Watt halogen http://www.bikeco.co.uk/index.php?mod=productDetail&itemid=214 which has about double the usual output, plus a nice fat hotspot.



I just received that, and noticed that the outer diameter of the bulb (9.25mm) is quite a bit smaller than the inner diameter of the socket (11.5mm).
(I *could've* known earlier, as the product description states "HS3 / KPR / P13.5s Push-in [Pre-focus], base diameter 9.2mm", but didn't check.)

What's the best way to fit the bulb in there, ensuring good electrical contact and heat conduction?


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## Minimoog (Mar 16, 2016)

ozrj said:


> I just received that, and noticed that the outer diameter of the bulb (9.25mm) is quite a bit smaller than the inner diameter of the socket (11.5mm).
> (I *could've* known earlier, as the product description states "HS3 / KPR / P13.5s Push-in [Pre-focus], base diameter 9.2mm", but didn't check.)
> 
> What's the best way to fit the bulb in there, ensuring good electrical contact and heat conduction?



That is the way Mag bulbs are - not a tight fit in the holder. Just sit it in the holder and when you screw down the retaining collar over the bulb this presses the flange of the bulb against that and the holder and centers it perfectly.


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## ozrj (Mar 16, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> That is the way Mag bulbs are - not a tight fit in the holder. Just sit it in the holder and when you screw down the retaining collar over the bulb this presses the flange of the bulb against that and the holder and centers it perfectly.



Ah! Oh! Thank you for the info, Minimoog.
That works, and gives much better light than with the stock bulb — nice'n easy upgrade indeed!


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## Minimoog (Mar 16, 2016)

ozrj said:


> Ah! Oh! Thank you for the info, Minimoog.
> That works, and gives much better light than with the stock bulb — nice'n easy upgrade indeed!



Glad you got it working! The hotspot really is much brighter and bigger than stock isn't it? I really like that bulb, and use mine for photography too.


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## ozrj (Mar 16, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> Glad you got it working! The hotspot really is much brighter and bigger than stock isn't it? I really like that bulb, and use mine for photography too.



Yes, it's much brighter and bigger, and whiter. And the light's much more pleasant than that from the LED light. Good tip, thanks again!


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## Minimoog (Mar 16, 2016)

ozrj said:


> Yes, it's much brighter and bigger, and whiter. And the light's much more pleasant than that from the LED light. Good tip, thanks again!



One other 'free' thing I do recommend is paying attention to the tailcap spring. As stock it does mar the negative end of the battery, which when using alkalines does not matter, but with rechargeables it helps to use a mini grinder or even some emery paper to sand down the sharp end of the spring. Also, if you are handy with a soldering iron, bridge the spring coils using some fairly high current flexible insulated copper wire run down the inside. This vastly reduces the resistance of the steel spring (steel is not a very good conductor) to give you more power at the bulb.


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## bykfixer (Mar 16, 2016)

I regret clicking on this thread.





Eh, just kidding. Great info fellows. Thanks.


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## ozrj (Mar 17, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> One other 'free' thing I do recommend is paying attention to the tailcap spring. As stock it does mar the negative end of the battery, which when using alkalines does not matter, but with rechargeables it helps to use a mini grinder or even some emery paper to sand down the sharp end of the spring. Also, if you are handy with a soldering iron, bridge the spring coils using some fairly high current flexible insulated copper wire run down the inside. This vastly reduces the resistance of the steel spring (steel is not a very good conductor) to give you more power at the bulb.



More good advice, thank you Minimoog!

I have now done a bit of creative bending to defuse that sharp edge, which isn't quite as elegant as tapering it but should do the job.
Will have a look at the copper-wire-option as well, though I'd like to take some measurements of the effective electrical parameters before & after and still need to work out how best to do that.


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## ozrj (Mar 17, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> I regret clicking on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know what you mean, bykfixer, and nice smiley!


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## bykfixer (Mar 17, 2016)

Walking down the bulb aisle at box stores for 2 pin spot light bulbs?
Heck yeah!!!


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## ozrj (Mar 24, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Walking down the bulb aisle at box stores for 2 pin spot light bulbs?
> Heck yeah!!!



Haha, yes, I can imagine!
There's the expense of switching to different batteries between me and that experience...
What Voltage do you drive those lamps on?


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## bykfixer (Mar 24, 2016)

ozrj said:


> Haha, yes, I can imagine!
> There's the expense of switching to different batteries between me and that experience...
> What Voltage do you drive those lamps on?



Well to be honest I have not thought that far ahead. 

Extension cords and car batteries don't seem practical so digging up some old threads here if I decide to actually pursue that much brightness from an old style Mag tube. 

There's the 'what can the switch handle' aspect as well. And at some point will the bulb holder melt?

I'm sure all of that information is available in threads from the good ole days here at CPF.


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## ozrj (Mar 25, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Well to be honest I have not thought that far ahead.
> 
> Extension cords and car batteries don't seem practical so digging up some old threads here if I decide to actually pursue that much brightness from an old style Mag tube.
> 
> ...



Ah, ok — sorry, I took your post at face value, as in that's what you're doing! 
Yes, I'm sure there are lots of threads on that, and there are also lots of knowledgeable and helpful people around here, too, that one can ask.
That simple bulb upgrade actually made a big difference to the light output.

With further upgrade, I'm wondering at what point one even needs to buy a flashlight in the first point, only to then replace pretty much all the original parts.


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## bykfixer (Mar 25, 2016)

ozrj said:


> Ah, ok — sorry, I took your post at face value, as in that's what you're doing!
> Yes, I'm sure there are lots of threads on that, and there are also lots of knowledgeable and helpful people around here, too, that one can ask.
> That simple bulb upgrade actually made a big difference to the light output.
> 
> With further upgrade, I'm wondering at what point one even needs to buy a flashlight in the first point, only to then replace pretty much all the original parts.



Oh I'm working on it. But Ima simple mod kinda guy. Any of my hobbies that involve modifying stuff is usually based around a stock platform.

I tend to agree that if you buy an item then spend 10x the original price to improve it is not my cup of tea. But in terms of building a huge lumen light myself I'm intrigued by the potential using a $20 adapter and a $7 bulb in one of my dust collecting MagLites. 

I do not want to just go at it all willy-nilly and slap together a bunch of parts that ends up catching fire while I'm walking in the woods. lol. 

So the research has begun, although I must admit at a liesurely pace. Lots of distractions lurk throughout my searches thus far, so I'm catching up on the history here. It's fun to me to see all the what ifs, the witty banter and comradery of days gone by when this was a much smaller, less crowded forum. 
Potential parts sources are being bookmarked as well. Yet in a little over 6 months I've accumulated enough flashlights to last 10 people 10 lifetimes. So I'm in no hurry to do this thing. It will likely take place before Mothers day.


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## ozrj (Apr 16, 2016)

Minimoog said:


> One other 'free' thing I do recommend is paying attention to the tailcap spring. As stock it does mar the negative end of the battery, which when using alkalines does not matter, but with rechargeables it helps to use a mini grinder or even some emery paper to sand down the sharp end of the spring. Also, if you are handy with a soldering iron, bridge the spring coils using some fairly high current flexible insulated copper wire run down the inside. This vastly reduces the resistance of the steel spring (steel is not a very good conductor) to give you more power at the bulb.



I have finally gotten around to testing this out: I didn't even solder the copper wire, just squeezed it in, and it seems to buy me another 0.2V at the bulb — 6.0 Volts without the copper wire, 6.2V with it. Not too shabby for a one-minute modification. Thanks again for the tip!


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## Minimoog (Apr 18, 2016)

ozrj said:


> I have finally gotten around to testing this out: I didn't even solder the copper wire, just squeezed it in, and it seems to buy me another 0.2V at the bulb — 6.0 Volts without the copper wire, 6.2V with it. Not too shabby for a one-minute modification. Thanks again for the tip!



Glad it helped you. I'ts these small things that make the hobby so much fun - discovering ways to make things better to use and also learning about them at the same time. If only school bothered to cover such things instead of some of the other time-wasting they used to so love.


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## Minimoog (Apr 18, 2016)

ozrj said:


> I have finally gotten around to testing this out: I didn't even solder the copper wire, just squeezed it in, and it seems to buy me another 0.2V at the bulb — 6.0 Volts without the copper wire, 6.2V with it. Not too shabby for a one-minute modification. Thanks again for the tip!



--


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## lightlover (Apr 18, 2016)

ozrj said:


> I have finally gotten around to testing this out: I didn't even solder the copper wire, just squeezed it in, and it seems to buy me another 0.2V at the bulb — 6.0 Volts without the copper wire, 6.2V with it. Not too shabby for a one-minute modification. Thanks again for the tip!



ozrj,

do you mean you just used a copper wire, and it is held in place by the spring pressure? 
*?*


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## ozrj (May 10, 2016)

lightlover said:


> ozrj,
> 
> do you mean you just used a copper wire, and it is held in place by the spring pressure?
> *?*



Sorry for the late response, I somehow missed your question...
Yes, that's exactly right. I took the spring out and squeezed the copper wire back in with it, then wrapped the other end of the wire around the other end of the spring, where it touches the batteries. I'm sure soldering would be better, but this still makes a difference.


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## lightlover (May 11, 2016)

Thanks ozrj, 

I've often wondered if that would work, and now you've tested it, I'll try it for myself.
(As long as the springs on mine allow for it ...)


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