# Boosted Thor ~3X output



## NewBie (Jul 17, 2004)

Cell Voltage after charging, no load, 13.28V

Cell Voltage under load (light turned on), 12.34V and dropping immediately under load, about 2mV per second.

Flashlight current 6.63A and dropping 0.03A per second.

Delivered bulb voltage, 11.55V at the bulb base, measured on the bulb terminals.

Soda Lime float glass protective lens (common green window glass- 89% optical transmission for typical types) 
Glass Protective lens diameter is 7.624 inches (193.65mm) Thickeness is 0.125".

Internal battery drop (from no load to full load):
13.28-12.34= 0.94 V
Current draw 6.63A


Power out of the battery:
12.34V * 6.63A = 81.8142 Watts

Actual power delivered to the bulb:
11.55V * 6.63A= 76.5765 Watts

Power lost in wires, terminals, switches:
81.8142 - 76.5765 = 5.2377 Watts

Efficiency loss due to wires, terminals, switches:
6.4 %

Efficiency loss due to window glass lens vs. AR coated borofloat: About 8-9%

As near as I can measure, the efficiency of the reflector coating is 83%, thus a loss of 15% as compared with double oxide overcoated, vacuum silver sputter, vacuum aluminum undercoat sputter, over polished aluminum reflector which is 98% visible reflective.

6.4% + 8% + 15%= 29.4% overall loss in efficiency due to optical and electrical issues.


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## jtice (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Great info there Jar !
Seems fairly well made, but alot of loss there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Although, I wouldnt be surprised if you find that with alot of lights, especially spotlights. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
Seems that reflector is the big problem /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif How did you find out the loss?

BTW, both your pics are the same.


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## NewBie (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I took an LED and a silicon eye photodiode (human eye response corrected, see infineon/osram/siemens) and put each of them at a 45 degree angle from the perpandicular to the surface (90 from each other), to simulate light from the bulb doing a 90 off the reflector at the "sweet" spot.

Put a lens in front of the Nichia LED and adjusted the lens such that it forms the tightest beam at a far distance. Then I put a mask over the LED to make a pinhole (to minimize the effect of curved surfaces).

Then I have a reference sample of double oxide overcoated, vacuum silver sputter, vacuum aluminum undercoat sputter, over polished aluminum sheet to utilize as a reference, which has been very accurately measured at 98%.144

At measurement time, I take a reading off the reference sample, add 1.856% to get my 100% number, then measure the sample.

Technically this method will be off if the surface isn't perfectly smooth, but it gives you a good starting point for comparision. But, how much it is off from perfectly smooth can be seen by looking at the tissue paper at the photo diode location. Since I couldn't guage any difference, it is in my mind, flat enough to give a decent reading.

If anything, the Thor reflector is slightly focusing the light with this setup, which helps to artificially raise the efficiency. I pulled the photodiode out, and put a piece of tissue paper there, and it is very difficult to tell any difference in the reflected dot size. I am making the measurement near the edge of the reflector, where it is rather flat, anyhow. I make the measurements in the dark.


Why would you feel the reflector should be any better? 89-70 % actual reflection efficiency is typical for reflectors, and goes up to 93% for premium coatings (which I haven't seen used in a flashlight yet), and can get up in the 98% range for engineered scientific type coatings (think big dollars). Additionally, there is additional considerations besides just the reflection numbers, as the angle of incidence also affects the number.


Even vacuum sputtered pure aluminum is only about 93%, and rapidly degrades in the presence of air...

Vacuum sputtered pure silver is around 98%, and also degrades in the presence of air...

They do make overcoating materials, but most degrade the reflection efficiencies.

There are high cost dielectric overcoats that can significantly slow down the degredation, and in some cases, enhance the reflectivity.


In fact, there is a reflector made from nothing more than plastic (no reflective material) made by 3M, under their Vikuiti division, called Vikuiti Enhanced Specular Reflector (ESR).

Vikuiti Enhanced Specular Reflector film is a non-metallic specular reflector film with over 98.5% reflectivity. It is comprised of over 300 layers of polymer film. This product, uses thereof, or its manufacture may be covered by one or more of the following U.S. patents: 5094788, 5122905, 5269995, 5389324, 5882774, 5976424, 6080467, 6088163, 6101032, 6117530, 6157490, 6208466, 6210785, 6296927.

3M ESR 

More info:
http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-136/cRkelFU/view.jhtml

And if you look around their website, it is possible to thermoform the material... (hint, hint)

(figured I'd mention the material again, since I don't know if everyone caught the mention of the material last time)


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## NewBie (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Okay, got that boost supply for the Thor done.
I lightened the meter windows to make it easier to read:







This is the default Thor level on a very fresh charge, it degrades very fast to the previous picture:







Here are the boosted ones (it is adjustable):































































And yes, it will go higher, but I didn't want to risk blowing the bulb.


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## StEaLtH_ (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Amazing, 3 times.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I guess that meter sure got hot.. you're trying to beat the sleeper are you? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Some outside beamshots would be cool, stock against.. well the highest you wanna go /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## NewBie (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Yes, the meter surface actually got warm from that.

Note: I am unable to make this older digital camera stay at the same f-stop.

Here are some outside beamshots (you read my mind):

First, standard shots













Now for the boosted version:


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## LEDagent (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

WOOWW!

This Spotlight forum is getting more and more interesting everyday! Newbie this is great.

I must have missed something though...can you explain your "boost supply" and how it is delivering 16V to the bulb? Did you make a boost circuit or did you just simply put together some batteries to output 16V?

Wow...i'm just imagining now the possible applications. Stonger bulbs, bigger batteries, heavier spotlights, stronger arms! And my girlfriend says i'm just wasting away in front of this computer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Awsome work!


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## StEaLtH_ (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Wow amazing power /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Looks you just burnt a hole in your fence /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Are you planning on making beamshots at bigger distances?


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## NewBie (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Sure, tomorrow night, it is getting late here.

I just made a boost supply like I do for Luxeons, but on steroids.

Until then, here is a photo of a quick mod, I'll fix it up nicer later, bigger wires and everything.


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## markdi (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

are you going to post the schematic ?


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## NewBie (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Anyone local have an x990? I'd like to do some beamshots against it, and show what a fist full of whooparse can do.

Mark, tell me about your background, it takes some skill and unique parts/materials, this isn't just a simple LED boost.

I see you are "local". Anyone wanna do a small mini-meet in Oregon? Cambria, CA is Southern Cal, and a bit long of a drive at 13 hours. (Yes, Southern Cal, it takes only four hours from LA, and 10.75 hours from Smith River, CA.) (all numbers are at legal speed limits...)

BTW, I just found out that the Thor bulb does 2,900 lumens at 13.2V in, 100 hour life, B3 point is 40 hours.

The X990 is only 3,200 lumens (claimed), and here we are at about 4,840 lumens with this Thor mod, 51% brighter....


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## LEDagent (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Oh your mod is definately brighter. From the pictures i've seen here before, the HID light systems don't edge ahead of the Thor by very much. If yours is 51% brighter from stock, i wouldn't be surprised if you riveled even the 50W HID systems. 

I would like to see beamshots anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Great job on this one. I don't think i've ever seen a boost circuit in an incandescent, let alone a spotlight, before.


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## jtice (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Very nice work Jar ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

You got that thing a good bit brighter.
Any idea on how much runtime you lost doing it? (like that matters for this, get all you can get, project) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So, am I reading this right, you peaked at about 15,600 Lux???? Seems REALLY low, when compared to LuxIII mags doing 10,000 Lux. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Though it is very clear, you are cranking ALOT more lumens.

Yes, I would love to see this next to a X990. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## jdriller (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I believe it reads 156,900 lux.


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## markdi (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Let me see 
I do component level repair and calibration of oscilloscopes for a living
about 2 years ago was the last time I drew and etched a pc board. It was for an active 24 db per octave crossover for my home theater.

so what are you pulling for current ?


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## LEDmodMan (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I would be interested in the schematic as well! I like the fact that you have a trim pot on there for variable power!

What are the unique parts/materials (I can id some from the pic), as I'm sure I have the skill to make a board? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Did you retain the stock charger setup? Can this be run directly from the car cig lighter plug now? Did you take out the stock charger circuit and have a look at it?

Very interested! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

So it does appear that the battery (by itself) can't push enough juice into this bulb, correct? What are you pulling from the batt. now?


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## Sway (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

NewBie,

Thrilling work you are doing the the *HAMMER* has that thing got a HEMI in it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif what kind of run time will you be able to get from the factory SLA with it all jacked up?


Where is cheesehead I think he would really like this anybody seen him lately?

Very nice me likey /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Later
Sway


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## NewBie (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDagent said:*
Oh your mod is definately brighter. From the pictures i've seen here before, the HID light systems don't edge ahead of the Thor by very much. If yours is 51% brighter from stock, i wouldn't be surprised if you riveled even the 50W HID systems. 

I would like to see beamshots anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Great job on this one. I don't think i've ever seen a boost circuit in an incandescent, let alone a spotlight, before. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, well, I looked at the Welch Allyn site, and it looks like a 50 Watt HID Aircraft landing light is putting out 3,200 lumens. Just for a HID bulb like this, you are going to lay out 254.00 for the bulb alone, without the ballast.

http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=M50E012

http://www.walamp.com/lpd/webstore/detail.tpl?partnumber=M50E014&cart=1091495652192157


Take mind though, that pushing a bulb like this *does* shorten it's life, but its one heck of alot cheaper, most especially initial outlay. Especially since many HID bulbs don't last that long (some do, but not all that many). 


[ QUOTE ]
*jtice said:*
Very nice work Jar ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

You got that thing a good bit brighter.
Any idea on how much runtime you lost doing it? (like that matters for this, get all you can get, project) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So, am I reading this right, you peaked at about 15,600 Lux???? Seems REALLY low, when compared to LuxIII mags doing 10,000 Lux. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Though it is very clear, you are cranking ALOT more lumens.

Yes, I would love to see this next to a X990. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Jtice. If nobody local has a X990, you feel like loaning one? I figure you have one, you have dang near every flashlight made in the past five years...

I estimate runtime is reduced by about 39% (or 61% of what it was before) This has not been tested, alot will depend on the internal resistance and condition of the battery. (anyone know of any lead acid cells that are of a higher quality, in the same form factor)?

156,000 lux. Keep in mind, especially that the area of the beam is fairly large, that is a much larger sensor in the photo than many cheap light meters have. If it was focused to a tighter spot, the lux reading would be much higher. I may fiddle with it, as it is not all that focused right now...

Note that the output is adjustable, so you can get long runtime or brighter output.

Yeah, we are talking two different classes of lumens, a Lux III if driven at 1A, at 80 lumens, if you hold the die at 25 degrees C, which you do not in a flashlight, there is a die to slug resistance of 13 degrees C per watt, and at 1A, you are looking at about 4W, so the die will be about 52 degrees above the slug temperature, plus the slug typically rises to about 45 degrees C, so you are talking ~ 97 degrees C for the die. According to this:
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/protected/DS45.PDF
I see a 25% reduction in light output, or about 60 lumens in the typical Lux III 1 Amp mod.

Contrast this with ~4800 lumens.

A whole different class...


[ QUOTE ]
*markdi said:*
So what are you pulling for current ? 


[/ QUOTE ]

About 10.6Ain at 11Vin. To get high efficiency out of the converter, you'll need 4" wide traces with the typical 0.5 oz mail order PCB material (you can often special order 2.0 oz copper, still an issue). I used 4 oz. copper, which is much thicker than normal PCB copper cladding. It also doubles as a heatsink, where thinner materials would result in high thermal resistance....

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDmodMan said:*
I would be interested in the schematic as well! I like the fact that you have a trim pot on there for variable power! 

What are the unique parts/materials (I can id some from the pic), as I'm sure I have the skill to make a board? 

Did you retain the stock charger setup? Can this be run directly from the car cig lighter plug now? Did you take out the stock charger circuit and have a look at it? 

Very interested! 

So it does appear that the battery (by itself) can't push enough juice into this bulb, correct? What are you pulling from the batt. now? 


[/ QUOTE ]


Unique parts? Most of them, except the electrolytics. I pull more current out of the battery and load it down harder. Yes, the variable aspect is rather nice. All the original stuff is there, including low beam. I just wired in after the high beam switch. I may change this and use the shutdown pin of the regulator with the switch, to elimate it's resistance. Yes, the stock charger still works, no, I did not remove it. It was getting late and I just did a quick mod.


[ QUOTE ]
*Sway said:*

NewBie, 

Thrilling work you are doing the the HAMMER has that thing got a HIMI in it! what kind of run time will you be able to get from the factory SLA with it all jacked up? 


Where is cheesehead I think he would really like this anybody seen him lately? 

Very nice me likey 
Later 
Sway



[/ QUOTE ]

What is a HIMI? Runtime, see above. Thanks for the comment Sway.





I'll see if I can paste together some schematics soon.


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## KartRacer31 (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Nice job NewBie! How much would it cost to replicate, and would you be willing to make and sell them?


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## markdi (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

the 35 watt hid in the x 990 is 3200 lumins
a 50 watt should be more than that around 5500 lumins acording to suvlights.com


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## NewBie (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I've not thought too much about that yet.

Lets see, the chip is 5.15ea
Two inductors at around 10 dollars
Schottky Diode at 2 dollars
MOSFET at 2 dollars
Panasonic FC Electrolytics I would use 7 of them, at 1.05ea (not what I had sitting around)
Current sense resistor at 1.40ea
5-10 dollars for variable resistor, unless use cheap radio shack part at 2.79 ea.
Misc parts at about 5 dollars

Thats the raw electronics cost.

+3 hours to make the board and assemble

Maybe if I saw lots of interest, I'd think about turning a board, but it would be awfully spendy, easier to do yourself if you have the skills.


Forgot to put tonight's beamshot in here, I was going to compare against my truck high beams, but you can't see them against the boosted Thor anyhow.....


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## Draco_Americanus (Aug 3, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

If you want a better battery I would look into getting a battery made by Hawker Energy(Enersys). They are mutch better then the stock China Battery the Thor comes with.
Genesis batteries 
Or Odyssey 
Both types are made by Enersys witch I belive was Hawker Energy. 
I use smaller Genesis batteries (13AH) for My blitz HID and maxabeam back up battery and love them a great deal.
They are expensive but have atlest twice the life span of the cheap crap batteries. They have a very low ESR so they can put out a lot of peak current.


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## NewBie (Aug 3, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I didn't see any batts in the same form factor, unless I'm getting dense or senile (prolly both).


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## AlexGT (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I am interested in the schematic of the circuit, can you post more detailed information.

Was it the stock bulb or did you change it? Can the converter go up to 24 or 36+ volts? That is one nice light you got there.

Alex


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## NewBie (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Warning, more "big photos" ahead (warning at Bart's request)


Stock bulb, Stock everything. Added a boost supply by cutting two wires.

The boost will run to 60V out if the output capacitors are changed accordingly. You'll either get less output current, or you can pull more input current and hold the output voltage and current.

Thanks Alex.

Here is another beamshot. Without the light, you cannot see anything but streetlights. At 1/2 mile, 2640 feet, 880 yards, or 804.7 meters you can see it flooding the whole shebang, and the storage barn is easily seen, just right of the electrical tower at the base. It is between the two streetlights.







And here is a roughly 400 ft shot








I do think I need to work on the stock focus of the Thor, it seems to converge at 20ft(?) out and then spread back out.


I'll see if I have time to piecemeal a schematic for ya'll tomorrow night if I have time.


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## StEaLtH_ (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Cool stuff, it looks indeed that you need to work on the focus.
A bit more tight focus with this power is awesome.


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## Draco_Americanus (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
I didn't see any batts in the same form factor, unless I'm getting dense or senile (prolly both). 

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to be correct but you may beable to stuff their smaller battery into a thor with some modification.


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## markdi (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

looks really bright
Is there a higher capacity battery that will fit ? 10 amp hour would be kool.

schematic for the boost circuit would be nice ?
I understand if you want to keep your light unique.


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## lasercrazy (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I would pay newbie whatever it cost to have him make me one.


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## Reno (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Ditto.

Hell yeah, ditto...

Especially if you can improve the focus as well :O


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## AlexGT (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

So Newbie, Would you like to share the schematic for the boost circuit?


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## NewBie (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Sure, I'm working on it now.

Meanwhile, here is a shot of the daytime view of the shot above.









<font color="red"> *Schematics* </font> 






The inductors are the main limiting factor in this design. Higher power parts could be utilized, dropping the sense resistor value at the same time. After beefing up the inductors, and you get up around 20A out, the next limiting factor is the shottky diode. If you bulk it up, the next limiting factor is the MOSFET at 50Amps output (you'll need good heatsinking). If you need more, the MOSFET can be doubled or tripled up without problem (I'd double up by 30A output, personally, but efficiency measurements are the final word...)

Watch the Gate charge if you substitue MOSFETs, and make sure you are looking at 10Vgs for comparision. An efficiency killer most folks forget is the body diode, note that this one uses a rather fast body diode and it also has low associated charge. And of course, the on resistance (RDSon) at 10Vgs should be low like this one. Also watch the temperature and current this is rated at (same with the body diode).


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## AlexGT (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Thanks Newbie! It's gonna be a hard one to make! But I'll give it a shot, you could make a good buck if you decide to sell them.

Alex


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## 2nd2none (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

JarHead great work!
I would be willing to pay for this Boost Circuit. If You ever plan on making some to sell I'm interested!


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## Reno (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Welcome to CPF, 2nd2none!!! Did this development draw you out of the shadows of lurkage?

I'm wondering if this thread wouldn't get a better look in the 'Homemade and Modified Lights' section. It's a huge development, and cost effective to boot!


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## 2nd2none (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

It sure did lure me in. I just got my Northern Tool/Thor light and would love to make it brighter!


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## markdi (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

thank you for the schematic


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## NewBie (Aug 9, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

No problem Markdi. Lemme know how it goes.


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## shiftd (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

WOW, nice work newb. That looks amazingly bright. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
wonder when will i have that kind of light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## NewBie (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Okay, Thor II mods....

First, lets get rid of all those losses in the wiring:


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## moraino (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Gage 12 hard wired?


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## iddibhai (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

jar, all this is w/ stock lamps? get yourself the 100w/130w Narva (daughter of Philips, caters to high end aftermarket) lamps? H4 right?


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## markdi (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I put a 130 watt bulb in my thor
it changed the focous of the light
the spot spreads out faster it does not have as much range
I am tired I should go to bed


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## iddibhai (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

marki, does the 130w lamp have a larger filament size?


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## NewBie (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*moraino said:*
Gage 12 hard wired? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it is 8 gauge. 0.6 ohms per 1,000 ft.

The stock wire is 18 guage. 6.6 ohms per 1,000 ft.


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## markdi (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

yes the 130 watt bulb has a larger filament size
and before I paid for the bulb I thought this would be a problem.
so how many lumens does the stock thor have running on its battery ?


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## moraino (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*moraino said:*
Gage 12 hard wired? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it is 8 gauge. 0.6 ohms per 1,000 ft.

The stock wire is 18 guage. 6.6 ohms per 1,000 ft. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, it's almost like a short jumper cable inside. Let us know your further improvement. I guess #6 or #4 are too thick and overkill.

Henry


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## markdi (Aug 15, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

would this battery be an improvement for the thor battery


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## cheesehead (Aug 15, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Sure, it's a 29% improvement in runtime, but a 35 watt HID will give you a 166% improvement in runtime (i.e. about 2 hours versus 45 minutes) and a better throw and more lumens (well, over stock, not over this 3x mod, which is brilliant /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif). Incandescents, because of their relatively large point source (regardless of wattage) won't throw as well as an HID, which has a somewhat smaller point source (although clearly, it's not a short arc, like the maxabeam). 

Plus, you don't have to worry about the wire gauge, since at 35 watts (well a little more due to ballast losses), it doesn't matter. Plus, the light output is regulated by the ballast, so as the battery wears down in voltage, your light output stays the same (I think in this mod, you could compensate for voltage drop, but it doesn't seem "regulated" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif-but I'm not certain).

Finally, I'm at a lost in the concern over the wiring resistance. The 100 watt filament is roughly 1.5 ohms and even if you have 3 feet of the 6.6 ohm per 1,000 feet 18 gauge, it's only going to amount to .02 ohms and that's about 1% of the total resistance in the circuit, not much to worry about. Maybe the connections or solder joints are adding up?

cheese


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## NewBie (Aug 15, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Read up top, first post:
"Efficiency loss due to wires, terminals, switches: 
6.4 %"

Wrong, this mod is quite regulated, on one run after a charge, it held 16.5V out at 10A out, until the battery voltage dropped to about 9.3V. Look carefully at R6, R7, Vout, and Pin 7 on the chip. The function of this should be quite clear.

Also, the select at test resistor will vary depending on the quality of the potentiometer, with the one I have sitting here now, it needs 1.6K ohms. Note, R7 can be adjusted as needed to make better use of the potentiometers control range.


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## iddibhai (Aug 17, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Jar (and markdi), the 130/100w H4 is physically identical in all regards to the stock Thor lamp, which is 100/90w, which is identical in all regards to the standard fare street legal 65/55w H4 used in automotive headlamps.

Jar, you had the PDF specs for the 100/90, which was 2900/1700 lumens @ 13.2v. I got specs for the 130/100, which are 3600/1900 lumens @ 13.2v, with Tc/B3 of 100/40 hours, same as stock; ditto lumen maintenance of 85%.

Both hosted online:

http://users2.ev1.net/~wesiddiquis/siddiq/100-90.pdf

http://users2.ev1.net/~wesiddiquis/siddiq/130-100.pdf

does the spotlight run both filaments simultaneously or just the highbeam one? If both, how deal with thelow beam filament having a reflector/shield right underneath it?


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## -Virgil- (Aug 17, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

It cannot be stressed enough that bulb quality matters. With an H4-type bulb, if you are not buying Norma, Osram, Philips, Narva, Tungsram, Dr. G. Fischer, Flösser or a German-made Candlepower, you are almost certainly getting an inferior bulb. Inferiority doesn't just mean failure to meet target lumens; filament position and orientation is usually very poor with off-brand bulbs, leading to beam pattern changes mentioned above by Markdi.


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## jamesraykenney (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Well, for ME, at least, cost WOULD be a factor, but I would be willing to pay a fair amount for one of these...Expecially if he made a charger that you could plug it into and leave it in.
And while he is at it, a circuit that would allow you to run from an external power source without damage...

He can call it the SuperThorMod and sell it for $150.00 and I would buy it in a sec.!

Hey...Just thought of something....Does anyone make a 100W HID??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## LEDmodMan (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*iddibhai said:*
Jar (and markdi), the 130/100w H4 is physically identical in all regards to the stock Thor lamp, which is 100/90w, which is identical in all regards to the standard fare street legal 65/55w H4 used in automotive headlamps.


[/ QUOTE ]

iddibhai,
I respectfully disagree with you on this point. 

I bought a couple of PIAA high-performance 55/60w superwhite bulbs here on CPF in which the low beam filament was blown, but the high beam filament was still intact. For my purposes, this is just fine as I don't really find myself using the low power setting on the THOR much. 

The stock THOR lamp still slightly outperformed even these awesome lamps. What I am saying here is that if you buy a good, *quality* 100w H4 lamp, it is NOT in fact a "standard fare street legal 65/55w H4 used in automotive headlamps". The stock lamp in the THOR seems to be a good quality lamp from my findings, which I will paste in below from my post in the massive THOR thread.

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDmodMan said:*
OK, I got the PIAA Extreme white bulbs from Beretta1526 last night. As I expected, they aren't quite as bright as the stock Philips 90/100w bulb is, but they are noticeably whiter. On a mostly-charged battery, I clocked the Philips bulb running at 72.8w (concurrent with Newbie's findings *HERE*), and the PIAA bulbs at 58.8w. I am really starting to think that the stock Philips bulb is really the European version of the Philips Extravision, and because it is rated as 90/100w and only pulling 72w, I am starting to wonder if the battery can't put enough juice to properly drive this bulb? 

Anyway, the 14w difference between bulbs, while noticeable, doesn't make all that much difference. The much whiter color of the PIAA bulb makes up for much of the 14w difference, IMHO, and gives an estimated 15 minutes more runtime. All in all, I am happy with these PIAA bulbs as spares! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Here's my measurements from the bulbs last night:
PIAA - 11.3v, 5.2A - 58.8w
Stock - 11.2v, 6.5A - 72.8w

Next comes the FUN part! -

If we were getting at least 12v to the bulbs, I would expect to see about 5.4A and 64.8w to the PIAA, and 6.7a with 80.4w to the stock bulb. This would increase the light output approximately 25%. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now, if that is increased to where these bulbs were *meant* to be driven (appx. 13.8v), we would see about 5.8a and 79.7w to the PIAA, and about 7.2a and 99.6w to the stock bulb. This is what we expect to see since that is what the stock bulb is rated for. If we could be happily driving these bulbs at their designed 13.8v, we would see the *light output nearly DOUBLE*!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif

With that said, I am waiting with baited breath to see what Newbie is going to do to get more juice to the bulb! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing I have noticed since posting the above post in the THOR thread is that the filament in the stock THOR bulb is slightly larger/beefier than the filament in the PIAA bulbs. I credit the higher current flow seen in the stock THOR bulb vs. the PIAA's to that larger filament, and also use that as proof as to why I disagree with what iddibhai claims.


----------



## iddibhai (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

quick point of clarification: the thor has the 100w lamp standard, but i compared it to the 65/55 to make the point that the H4 label dictates a very specific placement and size; the filament itself may be built beefier to handle the increased current, may be of different gauge wire, coiled different, but its length is still dictated by H4 standards. sorry if my previous post was not completely clear. these specialty lamps also have altered gas fills and other tweaks, which incidentally makes the output definitely whiter.


----------



## NewBie (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Okay, charted the light output of the photos (scroll way back):


----------



## NewBie (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Guaging interest.

If we were to turn a board for this, how many commitments might we get (and don't commit if you even think you may drop out).


----------



## jtice (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

me me me me me me me me me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## bwaites (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Price?

Bill


----------



## lasercrazy (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'd commit in an instant if the price was $100 or lower. Over and I'd think it through a little and then my super bright light craving would take over and I'd probably commit anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## NewBie (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Probably under 100 bux. 35 would be in parts, then labor and pcb cost. I don't know any super cheap board places. Maybe I could get out my old etch stuff, but I'd hate to put 35 bux in parts on a homemade board. Plus, I'd like to find someone that uses 2oz copper and can plate up to 4oz, etching away 4oz copper (many boards are 1/2 oz copper), etching 4oz uses up alot of solution, 8 times the normal, amongst other issues like undercutting the mask.

FYI, here is the stock Thor bulb:






And the associated datasheet:


----------



## BillRoberts (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'd just be happy to get the parts for $40 bucks. It seem that when I source out parts, I end up spending as much on shipping from 4 vendors as I do for the parts. Any chace of a group buy on the parts?


----------



## NewBie (Sep 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Doesn't look to be much interest.


----------



## Mr Ted Bear (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

NewBie

in a heart beat.


----------



## bwaites (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'm still interested, but trying to figure out if I might be better off just using my high power mod vesus going through all the hassle required for this rewiring.

Jar, I might be willing to ship my high power mod down to you in a few weeks so you could do a comparo, if you would be willing to do the reverse.

Bill


----------



## KartRacer31 (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

NewBie, 
I have some interest in this as well. I'm a little tight on funds right now, and I didn't respond initially, because you asked for an absolute-positive "yes I want it". But I'd say if you could do the whole mod for under $100 I'd be hard pressed to pass up on it.


----------



## Reno (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Gotta get one of these. I don't own the light itself, but if you give me a price on a TK unit (hopefully in black), I'll jump on it.


----------



## Brock (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I am also intrested in it. I also though about going to a lower wattage lamp to get the voltage back up a bit, more white in color, but less light overall. 

But depending on price I am intrested, that would seriosly kick butt.


----------



## Sky (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I also would be interested. I have 3 Thor's. Two 10's and one 3.5.


----------



## NewBie (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Humm, thats a bit better, I'm just worried I'd get stuck with a whole pile of boards with no homes. Guess a person could do a mini-run, less economical, but better than getting stuck with a pile of stuff.


----------



## LEDmodMan (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Jar,
I am interested for sure, but lack the funds right now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

I will definitely keep a watchful eye on this thread. I would love to make my THOR ~3x as bright! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif


----------



## NewBie (Sep 14, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Well, I went down to the autostore and picked up a CEC 100W H4 offroad bulb, stuck it in the modded Thor, and saw a 25% drop in light output, so these Philips 12569 bulbs are definitely brighter.


Added a bit later:

I also just finished testing a CEC 130W/100W bulb, and I don't see any difference in the lux reading in the hotspot, as compared to their 100W/80W or 100W/55W. Go Figure!


----------



## lasercrazy (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Haven't been around in a while because my comp crashed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif But I'm still very interested. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## bellboy (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'm so NEW, I registered just to say I'm interested!!
Newbie - i can pay via PayPal.
Now...

Where can I get a Thor??


----------



## NewBie (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

LoL Bellboy. Depends, where do you live?


----------



## liteitup (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Any news on what the final cost of this would be?


----------



## dwminer (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Count me in. Dave


----------



## bellboy (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Near Baltimore, MD. I found a Thor at "****'s Sporting Goods" for $80. Just wondering if I can do any better than that.


----------



## NewBie (Sep 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Yes you can.

Thor Online 

Watch out for the shipping though!


----------



## raggie33 (Sep 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
Well, I went down to the autostore and picked up a CEC 100W H4 offroad bulb, stuck it in the modded Thor, and saw a 25% drop in light output, so these Philips 12569 bulbs are definitely brighter.


Added a bit later:

I also just finished testing a CEC 130W/100W bulb, and I don't see any difference in the lux reading in the hotspot, as compared to their 100W/80W or 100W/55W. Go Figure! 

[/ QUOTE ]hiya jarhead how much brigter will ya rig be then a vecter 138by 2 million spot? its my brightest spot im trying to imagine how bright ya rig is thank you


----------



## NewBie (Sep 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'd say a bit brighter, but I don't have your 2M vector. Does your vector drown out your truck highbeams?

Try looking at the photos above for example.


----------



## jtice (Sep 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

raggie,,,

Even the stock THOR is brighter, Jars mod will STOMP the Vector.

Bare in mind, the THOR is ALOT larger, with a larger reflector,


----------



## raggie33 (Sep 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

dang that thing must be insane bright


----------



## markdi (Sep 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

my 2 mcp vector seems almost as bright as my Thor(if you point them both at a white ceiling) but I did improve the wiring and switch

out doors the thor throws a little farther
and runs a lot longer

but with all of the street lights around me I could be missing something.
and I need to put the original bulb back in my thor


----------



## lasercrazy (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Still haven't gotten the comp fixed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif. Anyway an important question I forgot to ask. Will you still be able to charge it with the stock charger after the mod?


----------



## IlluminatingBikr (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I recently got myself a Thor, and might be interested. It depends on the final price, and what the actual modification is. I would really like to see something down about the focus; making it a bit tighter if that is possible.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Count me in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Scoob (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*IlluminatingBikr said:*
I would really like to see something down about the focus; making it a bit tighter if that is possible. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I backed the bulb about an 1/8 of an inch out of the reflector on my Thor 3.5, and now the beam comes together at about 100 feet, instead of 15 feet, and it tightened up the spot at 100 yards, and also got rid of the "donut hole" in the middle of the spot. I'll haven't tried it with my Thor-X yet... but it will probably work with it too. I did it with thin washers between the bulb and the reflector.


----------



## IlluminatingBikr (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*Yarddog said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*IlluminatingBikr said:*
I would really like to see something down about the focus; making it a bit tighter if that is possible. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I backed the bulb about an 1/8 of an inch out of the reflector on my Thor 3.5, and now the beam comes together at about 100 feet, instead of 15 feet, and it tightened up the spot at 100 yards, and also got rid of the "donut hole" in the middle of the spot. I'll haven't tried it with my Thor-X yet... but it will probably work with it too. I did it with thin washers between the bulb and the reflector. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Please keep us informed as to how this goes, and maybe let us know how we can perform the mod, or if you would be willing to do it for us. I am very interested.


----------



## cheesehead (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Thor HID mod will have a tighter focus, just slap the HID bulb in 1.25 PVC and you can then adjust it to your heart's content. 

2 hour runtime on the same battery. HID assembly, ebay 50-60 bucks. Knowing it has the best focus outside of a maxabeam, priceless.


----------



## Scoob (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

could you post a link showing a pick of the HID assembly that I would fit in the Thor...can you go bigger than 35 watts? I really know nothing about HIDs but they sound like something I need to get into!


----------



## Draco_Americanus (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

35Watt is the practical power for a typical D2S hid bulb. Ken Rad makes a ballast that will go to 50 watts but having that ballast inside a thor would cause thermal problems that would need to be delt with. The kenrad ballast is the smallest 35/50 watt ballast I have seen but unless it's mounted to metal it is prone to overheat and fail.


----------



## IlluminatingBikr (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*markdi said:*
would this battery be an improvement for the thor battery 

[/ QUOTE ]

Or what about this battery? Would it fit, be compatible with the existing connectors, and provide an increased runtime?

Data Sheet for Battery 

BTW, is the battery in the Thor have T1-3/16" or T2-1/4" connectors?


----------



## IlluminatingBikr (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Newbie,

Any update? Have you decided to offer your upgrade service?


----------



## 2dim (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

*"I really know nothing about HIDs but they sound like something I need to get into!"*

Spoken like a true flashaholic!!! 

Me neither and me, too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## NewBie (Sep 27, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'm debating on turning a board now. Woulda been nice to have more interest, as more boards means lower cost on the boards and the parts.

Rumor mill from Cambria meet says that it has a tighter beam than an X990 and is brighter at the same time. Fog prevented a true throw comparision. It does lack the runtime of the x990. Also the 2X beam isn't yellow like the stock Thor, but a fairly nice white. Anyone that saw it, I'd love to hear comments.

If anyone saw it at the Cambria meet, it would be very nice to hear comments. If anyone has pictures, I'd love to see them.

FYI, the one at Cambria was only set for 2X.


----------



## aurora (Sep 27, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

NewBie,

I have been dropping in on the candlepower forum for couple of months now. Great job! I find it very interesting.

Just now registered to let you know I would promise to purchase at least one board. Two boards if under a hundred bills.

Thanks


----------



## colin123 (Sep 27, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'm up for a turnkey - or an upgrade kit if it's easy to convert a stock Thor /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

(I'm a novice!)


----------



## lasercrazy (Sep 27, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

So can you use the stack charger or not after the upgrade?


----------



## liteitup (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

this mod only comes into play after the battery so i dont see how it could be effected... The stock charger should be uneffected


----------



## markdi (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

so my thor is at a friends house charging
he is gone untill saturday-I can not get into his house
it has a 1.5 amp 12 volt wall wart charger.
will the battery survive ?
will the spot light be a mass of melted plastic ?


----------



## NewBie (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Hard to say, but from what I've seen, as the battery charges up, there is not much voltage potential, so very little current flows. I'd assume the battey could get warm, but in a similar case of two days, it was cold to the touch.


----------



## markdi (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

so it may survive-kool


----------



## chmsam (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Still not a good thing to do, though. Over charging the battery will eventually shorten its life in my experience.


----------



## Mike Painter (Sep 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

What about bulb life? This was a reply to an inquery for an off the shelf DC-DC converter,
"... did anyone get around to mentioning that
for every 2 x in brightness you get 1/20 of the bulb life? I used to be an optical engineer, and don't have time to look up the real numbers, but it is stunning.


----------



## xpitxbullx (Oct 1, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Is there a simple DC/DC converter you can buy online to up the voltage to 15v or 16v? Is this boost board you made the same thing? I'm just trying to learn.


----------



## Mike Painter (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I looked at a few sites. They exist but no prices are given.
The one site I contacted said they had nothing this small and the response also included the vastly shortened bulb life comment.


----------



## Psychomodo (Oct 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Newbie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

I'm interested in buying into your project.

Any news on price/availability?

Cheers.


----------



## Psychomodo (Oct 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Hey newbie are you going to build the boards or say forget it?


----------



## cobb (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I had a friend swap out his standard halogen lamps for the brighter ones. He did not see any brightness, although his housings were melted the next day. 

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
Well, I went down to the autostore and picked up a CEC 100W H4 offroad bulb, stuck it in the modded Thor, and saw a 25% drop in light output, so these Philips 12569 bulbs are definitely brighter.


Added a bit later:

I also just finished testing a CEC 130W/100W bulb, and I don't see any difference in the lux reading in the hotspot, as compared to their 100W/80W or 100W/55W. Go Figure! 

[/ QUOTE ]


----------



## Scoob (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Darn... and I was thinking about getting one of those 130/100 bulbs to see if there was a difference. Thanks for reposting that quote... I thought it was in here somewhere!


----------



## cobb (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

FYI, he did buy thejc whitney tail light halogen bulbs and man, those were brighter than stock, but the halogen ones for his lamps did not work out. I had asked too about the 85watt lamps as they look like a good fit. He told me if i wanted to melt my lamp houses they would work great. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## IlluminatingBikr (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bumpit.gif

Newbie,

Are you going to go ahead with the modifications, or is there not enough interest?


----------



## jtice (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

yea, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Ive been sitting here patiently waiting to drop birds out of the sky,

Lets boost these babies ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## NewBie (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I saw the Thor finally at our local Costco for 24.95, in the all black variant.

There is one more event I am waiting for (maybe it will generate more interest), and then I'd like to do a new interest thread, so I can see about how many are interested. 

Once that is done, I do plan on turning a board, and building them. The cost is very significantly tied to how much interest we get.


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Great! Put me down for one board. How/when do we pay you?


----------



## jtice (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

$25???????? for the 10 MCP one? geeeez, thats half what I payed !


----------



## NewBie (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Yup, and I thought about buying all 50 of them...


----------



## cobb (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Last time I was at walmart they had a range of spot lights. Both portable and those you plugged in. I did not see the name Thor on any of them. If i worked as a stock boy I would need one to see the products ina store on the shelf, but that would be a bit big and bright to use as a reading light.


----------



## Icebreak (Oct 10, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

NewBie -

You, as well as other members, are too generous in sharing skills and expertise IMHO. I am capable of using a soldering gun to do the most minimal work and that would include lighting someone's cigar. So, that's why my butt cheeks have a horizontal indentation.

Now, if you are talking TK NewBie modified black Thors, you may get more of an audience than you anticipated or wanted.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Count me in... still /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## LEDmodMan (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
I saw the Thor finally at our local Costco for 24.95, in the all black variant.

There is one more event I am waiting for (maybe it will generate more interest), and then I'd like to do a new interest thread, so I can see about how many are interested. 

Once that is done, I do plan on turning a board, and building them. The cost is very significantly tied to how much interest we get. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a feeling this was going to show up at Costco. There was an article in the "Costco Connection" magazine talking about the Thor (though they called it the Cyclops), and I was expecting the black version to show up in warehouses any time. Cool! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Hallis (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

NewBie, If you can get the Thor for $25 then i'll just have you build me a turnkey since i dont have the skills to do any of this myself. lol. If the total cost is under $100 that would be awesome, but im not afraid of spending a little more.

Shane


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

How much modding has to be done by us to install the board and pot? I suck at soldering. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


----------



## 4sevens (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

newbie - I'm interested... and would like to commit... before I do...
would you consider selling the board and parts only? that'll save 
you 3 hours and will let people who like to hack and mod DIY.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif If so, then I'm in.


----------



## Sky (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'm still in and Paypal is ready....Sky


----------



## Mike Painter (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*lasercrazy said:*
How much modding has to be done by us to install the board and pot? I suck at soldering. 

[/ QUOTE ]
It takes clean parts and a bit of practice and clean parts and an iron suitable for the job and clean parts.
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm has some good directions.
Did I mention...?


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*Mike Painter said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*lasercrazy said:*
How much modding has to be done by us to install the board and pot? I suck at soldering. 

[/ QUOTE ]
It takes clean parts and a bit of practice and clean parts and an iron suitable for the job and clean parts.
http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm has some good directions.
Did I mention...? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm that explains alot, I never cleaned the parts and I have a soldering gun, not iron. :/ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif


----------



## Hallis (Oct 15, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

same here, i dont think i wanna be putting my 200watt weller on this. lol, Tip is just a little, um, large. hehe

Shane


----------



## markdi (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

If you are skilled with the 200 watt iron it would work
(for installing a board)

every things gotta be clean and you have to be quick.


----------



## CNC Dan (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Is the boost circiut going to die if/when the bulb blows?


----------



## Mike Painter (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[quote}
Hmm that explains alot, I never cleaned the parts and I have a soldering gun, not iron. :/ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
Irons are cheap but for very occasional use you can wrap a piece of copper wire around the tip and let some stick out. The length and gauge of the wire will regulate the heat quite well but you might have to play with it a little. Start out with a longer length


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I just picked up one of the $25 thors at the costco by me. It's currently charging, it's the same size, just all black.


----------



## Hallis (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Do you have to have a membership at Costco?

Shane


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Yes, unless you have a buddy or family member who is a member, then you could just borrow their card.


----------



## Hallis (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Damn, well, i have niether.


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Hey Newbie, I wanted to upgrade all the wiring in my thor when I get the board and solder it right to the battery like you did. Could you provide the wires that you used, or better if possible? I'd pay you whatever extra they'd cost. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## markdi (Oct 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

you can get a 1 day guest membership at my costco


----------



## bigmikey (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

do all the costcos have them now??. I was thinking about going to Checker auto parts, but you have to pay $39.00 and they give you a 10 dollars off but you have to send it in for a rebate. Going to Costco would still save me more. Cant wait to try one out. Newbie One more question. What is the runtime with the thor whens it boosted?, will it hurt anything on the light?, or just not give as much life to the bulb??. Really desperate people want to know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## oklalawman (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

One of these wouold be great for search and rescue. Are you going to sell out the door modded models for those of us who are soldering impared??


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I got to test costco's thor against cabela's thor last night. The thor from costco has a slightly tighter and brighter beam as well as a fuse on the battery and slightly thicker wires. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Hallis (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Hmm, then i need to make a trip to Costco


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

If you're lucky maybe the costco by you will give you a pass. The one by me doesn't offer that.


----------



## Hallis (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Well my costco wouldnt let me. Anybody want to pick one up and ship it to me? 

Shane


----------



## Mike Painter (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*bigmikey said:*
What is the runtime with the thor whens it boosted?, will it hurt anything on the light?, or just not give as much life to the bulb??. Really desperate people want to know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked this a while back and saw no response. I don't know what the life of a bulb is expected to be but if the quote is true, and it probably is, it could be a serious problem.
This was a reply to an inquery for an off the shelf DC-DC converter:
"... did anyone get around to mentioning that
for every 2 x in brightness you get 1/20 of the bulb life? I used to be an optical engineer, and don't have time to look up the real numbers, but it is stunning. "


----------



## NewBie (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Keep in mind Mike Painter, that the bulb spec is actually 13.2V, you will notice this in the datasheet I posted. Stock, it is rather under powered. You could use the same circuit to run it at 13.2V IAW the datasheet. Remember, underpowering shortens bulb life on halogen bulbs.

At the price of these bulbs, which are *not* standard H4, who really cares?


----------



## bigmikey (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

so Newbie, would you be willing to mod one for a fee?. Please pm me if you would rather. Thanks.


----------



## Hallis (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

And pick up the light since i cant get my hands on one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## NewBie (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I might be willing to pick them up and do the basic mod, but not the complete rewiring mod.

We will know whats going down around the middle of November.


----------



## Hallis (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

alrighty, keep us posted,, by "basic" you mean what exactly? obviously not 16v of artificial daylight right?

Shane


----------



## NewBie (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Basic means it is inserted into the existing wiring, instead of rewiring the whole thing with heavier guage wire.


----------



## Hallis (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

DO you think the stock wiring can handle it?


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Newbie, did you pick up one of the costco thors yet? The wiring seems thicker and it has a fuse right off the battery. Do you think that will cause a problem?


----------



## Hallis (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I think the thicker wire will actually help, and the fuse can easille be removed if it causes a problemo.

Shane


----------



## Heath (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I looked through this thread and couldn't seem to find the art for the PCB . Newbie, do you have any layout images that you could share so that we can make our own boards?

Also, has anyone considered asking the folks at flashlightlens.com to do a run of borofloat lenses for the thor?


----------



## moondog (Oct 28, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Just joined the forum, I'm interested in a mod for the thor they now have them at northern tool for 39.00
Steve


----------



## Hallis (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Not a bad price Steve if there isnt a Costco in your area. Ive seen them go for as much as $60-$70 other places. 

Welcome to the CPF /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Shane


----------



## NewBie (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*lasercrazy said:*
Newbie, did you pick up one of the costco thors yet? The wiring seems thicker and it has a fuse right off the battery. Do you think that will cause a problem? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I forget the fuse value off-hand. Wanna remind me? Most the Genuine Thor-X branded ones also have this fuse. 

Hallis, yes, the stock wiring will handle it, I've got a few modified prototypes this way.


----------



## Hallis (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

cool, now all we need are the boards, bulbs, and anything else and its on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Heath (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

The costco Thor comes with a 10A fuse on the battery. It'd take about 3 seconds to replace with a 15A or 20A fuse.


----------



## lasercrazy (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Looks like Heath beat me to it, the costco thor does have a 10A fuse. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Anyway, do you know when you'll start making the boards?


----------



## Hallis (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Just got mine today, real nice looking light in all black, but JESUS what a boat anchor!!! lol, good thing they give ya a carrying shoulder strap with it. IT's on the charger right now. 

Shane


----------



## Heath (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

_It's on the charger right now_

Which leads me to wonder. What is the difference between the "AC Charger port" and the "use DC 12v car battery" port? Since the AC charger gives 12VDC I don't see why there would be any difference. Is there any charging circuitry integral to that port. Can one safely float the battery permanently connected to an AC source?

Note, I'm asking these questions because I'm too lazy to open mine up right now. If nobody knows the answer, I'll go ahead and crack it open.


----------



## Hallis (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Well im too lazy too, i cant figure out why there are 2 different ports since both apparently take 12v DC current. Maybe the car port is internally regulated since it takes roughly 15 hours to charge, perhapse the AC charger is pushing more amps. *shrugs* Wish i had a float charger.


----------



## Heath (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

_Wish i had a float charger._

I do, that's why I'm curious what the difference is. I got a vector vec070 from Sportman's Guide for about $10 last year sometime. Unfortunately, they don't have any more. Best deal I can find on a float charger is about $25 for the Vector or $25 for a Deltran Battery Tender Junior.


----------



## ColoradoLED (Oct 29, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I just order a float charger for my Thor at http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ACC-12BC0500D-1


----------



## Hallis (Oct 30, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Just for comparison here's the Costco Thor next to my space needle. (2C Mag) Just lit it up, Yah, it's bright to say the least.


----------



## sstrauss (Oct 30, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Is there a reason to get the 500ma batterymart float charger instead of the 1a one?


----------



## cheesehead (Oct 30, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

It's a 7 amp battery, so you want to charge it slowly, i.e. 1/20 of capacity, so the 500 ma is better. I have a 1.5 amp (that's the smallest I could get at Farm and Fleet). Ideally, the slower, the better.

cheese


----------



## larry2 (Oct 31, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

how would it compare if you used 10xD cell rechargable batteries to give you approx 15V ?


----------



## Scoob (Oct 31, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'm pretty sure that 12V car battery port on the side of Thor is to run the light off the car battery, and charge it at the same time. You cannot do that (and should not try) with a AC charger.
Bye the way... That black Thor looks so much cooler than my yellow!


----------



## Heath (Oct 31, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*larry2 said:*
how would it compare if you used 10xD cell rechargable batteries to give you approx 15V ? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming you used these:
http://www.batterieswholesale.com/rechargeable-d-nimh-battery.htm

You'd have an $80 9AH pack that was lighter, and lasted marginally longer than a $15 SLA battery.


----------



## NewBie (Oct 31, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

The batteries are an option, but one major drawback is the very high surge currents, which greatly weaken the bulb. The boost circuit prevents this with it's soft start circuitry.


----------



## cheesehead (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

OK, UNCLE, I can no longer resist, sign me up for at least one board. The HID is ok, but it's no longer bright enough. But, I guess we're waiting until the middle of November.

cheese


----------



## sstrauss (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

If the installation of the board does not require fine soldering skills then I would like one. 

Scott


----------



## Scoob (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I don't think 10 rechargeable D cells will give you 15 volts... as they are 1.2 volts each, that's 12 volts. Right? So there is no real current surge. Now 12 rechargeable D cells will give you 14.4 volts, which is only about 1 volt more than the bulb is rated for. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


----------



## Quazar (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I would be interested in a bare board. I can source components and build it myself. Would also make shipping to the UK easier.


----------



## Hallis (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

If im not already id like to be on the list as long as there is no component soldering, i suck at that. Will the bulb need replacing with this mod? if so where can i source the bulbs from?

Shane


----------



## JohnGault (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I would buy a bare board in a New York second /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## theepdinker (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Count me in.
1 for sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
2 most likely. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
More depending on cost. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sssh.gif

Theepdinker


----------



## Darkwish (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

How much would it be for:

1. bare board (no components)

2. bare board + components (requires soldering components on)

3. Assembled board (components already soldered on board)

Thank you.


----------



## liteitup (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

if you offer a turn key black, im most definately in for this.

cant find a thor locally so might as well have a turn key one shipped /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## AlexGT (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

How much for option number 3? Board + electronics soldered.

AlexGT


----------



## jtice (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I would take option 2 or 3 for SURE !!!


----------



## NewBie (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Well, an event that I've been waiting for is due to happen very soon. 

After that, I'd like to start a new thread, and have all interested parties to post there, and if someone would be willing to keep the count, or maybe we can do it as a run-on total post, where you add your name to the list, that would be great.

I don't know the total cost yet, as it would be *largely * influenced by how many folks want total. Costs keep dropping alot at 20, 100, 200 total, with different break points on various components and the PCB itself. It really makes a huge difference on the cost of it all.

The default board will be set to a 2X brightness level, and you can adjust the output level up to this yourself, while it is running. This will be about 15V. Going above this is done at your own personal risk, but can be done by modifying the resistors on the board. 

For those interested, please read up from the beginning.

I would prefer to sell a fully assembled board, as I can test it all to make sure it is working before it goes out, and replace any parts that are defective. Thoughts?


----------



## theepdinker (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I'm an insider! I know the secret "event". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

Everybody's thoughts & questions.
How soon?
How much?

Theepdinker


----------



## JohnGault (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

The more I read about this the more I like it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

@25.00 from CostCo. I put a few of them together to give as gifts! I'd be up for 3 - 5 boards (either bare or unassembled w/components depending on costs)


----------



## cheesehead (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Brilliant (and again thanks for your expertise), my only question,

Any chance of getting one made for 24 wolts (i.e. about 30 amps), to run an aircraft landing light? So, then it could go up to 30 volts? 

Thanks!


----------



## Sway (Nov 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*cheesehead said:*
Brilliant (and again thanks for your expertise), my only question,

Any chance of getting one made for 24 wolts (i.e. about 30 amps), to run an aircraft landing light? So, then it could go up to 30 volts? 

Thanks! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Cheese may as well look into enough power to run two at a time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif you and I both know you will never be happy with just one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif

Later
Kelly


----------



## NewBie (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I could make a custom one that would do that, but it's going to take one heck of a battery. If the battery didn't sag, you'd be pulling over 60 Amps at 12V.


----------



## mweiss (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Hi, this is Mark Weiss from Connecticut. I discovered this forum while doing some research on the Thor X Cyclops on Google. Nice to see a discussion on spotlights. I never knew there was an enthusiast group into 'overclocking' flashlights! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I just bought one of these Thor X Cyclops lamps from COSTCO yesterday. After giving it a full charge, I fired it up today and, yes it was quite bright, although, it didn't look like 10 million candlepower to me.
I also own a Brinkman Q-Beam Big Max, which is a sealed-beam spotlight with 150W filament. That has been my benchmark for 20 years (bought it in '83).
I recently bought a Vector spotlight, also at COSTCO. It's nice and portable, and reasonably bright.

Here's what gets me: Over the years, it seems like candlepower ratings are being inflated. 10 years ago, I saw the first 1,000,000 CP spotlights and they were a fraction as bright as the Q-Beam.

So I have the Thor, the Vector and the Q-Beam (with not so fully-charged 4.5 Ah battery attached by a 16 ga wire) and thought I'd do a comparison this evening. I set them up on the deck aiming up at 45º into the trees. The Thor was quite bright, as expected, and very white (being it was just fresh off the charger), but when I switched on the old Q-Beam, although it's beam was a little yellowish due to the lack of charge on the battery, ITS beam was easily as bright as the Thor's central point, and twice as wide as Thor's. Q-Beam's peripheral light was easily 50% brighter than Thor's. If I had provided a full 12VDC to it, it would have been even brighter. It draws 13A at 12VDC.
Now here's the kicker: Q-Beam is rated at 300,000 CP.
As for the Vector, it wasn't even in the running. It was like shining a flashlight next to a car's high beams.

Maybe someone can explain this anomaly. Has there been a change in measurement standards over the past 20 years?

Based on the Q-Beam, I would expect 10 million CP to be as bright as one of those mercury-vapor arc lamps used to light up the clouds at grand opening events. What it boils down to is that the Thor is a nice lamp, but it's more impressive to look at than to operate. I expected it to tromp the Q-Beam by several orders of magnitude, but it's only a close second instead.

Despite that confusion, I'll still keep the Thor; it's handles/stand make it a convenient work light for emergencies.

Maybe if I figure out how to post a pic, I'll do a head to head comparison shot and post it.

Jarhead has quite a nice little chopper/step up circuit there. It never occured to me to do that with the headlight system on my Ford Explorer, which has one of the worse lighting systems in the history of automotive lighting. I've got Phillips XtraVisions in there and still can't see where I'm going at night. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## glockboy (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I want two fully assembled board. where do I sigh up?


----------



## EchoSierraTwo (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

just got my Thor-X from Wingerr last night. Im ready for the board. please put me down for one.


----------



## cheesehead (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Well, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif um, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif er, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif well, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif , maybe that's why I said I'd buy at least one board. Hmm, overdriven 2,000 watts, that should be a good bird cooker. Then again, why stop at 2,000 watts?

cheese


----------



## cheesehead (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Newbie,

You're right, I think /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif having 2 1,000 watts lights may be a bit much/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mpr.gif, since 60 amps would not be very portable. On the other hand, 30 amps is pretty doable. SLA's always sag a bit (well, a lot) and I thought of getting 5 6 volt cells to compensate (even starting off with 4 to do a pseudo "soft-start" and then hooking in the 5th), but your solution seems even better. Finally, why do I need a 1,000 watt light? I don't know.

cheese


----------



## theepdinker (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

cheese,
Do like sway said, get two Thors.
Mount them on a helmet.
You'd have "Super Cheesy Head Lights". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/str.gif

Theepdinker


----------



## maddog (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

i would like to get a TK in black.


----------



## JohnGault (Nov 7, 2004)

*Just Wondering....*

What do you suppose these little things are and would they do anything for the ThorX?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7933000395


----------



## EchoSierraTwo (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

[ QUOTE ]
*JohnGault said:*
What do you suppose these little things are and would they do anything for the ThorX?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7933000395 

[/ QUOTE ]Cute. I like to know as well.


----------



## UncleFester (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

OK, I give. I just joined the Costco/Thor=X club. Jarhead, I'm in. PM sent


----------



## Heath (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

[ QUOTE ]
*JohnGault said:*
What do you suppose these little things are and would they do anything for the ThorX?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7933000395 

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect they are DC/DC step up converters, similar in function to jarhead's circuit. I've seen others like this called a "Catz Zeta". The device listed in the auction could probably be used for the Thor.


----------



## theepdinker (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

According to the listing you get UP TO 100% boost.

This tread is discussing ACTUAL 200% boost.

Theepdinker


----------



## Skip (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Joined this site for the upgrade. 

Bought 3 ThorX at Costco this weekend, so I'm in for three boards.

- Skip


----------



## Skip (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Oh, and who is John Gault? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Icebreak (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif I don't think he stopped the motor of the world.

San Antonio, eh? That's where I was born.

Welcome to CPF.


----------



## cheesehead (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

If you boost to 200% of output you only need to boost voltage about 1.2x (to get 190% output) but you only get 10% of the rated life, (typical 1500 hours, so 150 hours). A good trade off for CPF members, a PITA for a car owner. 

theepdinker,

Hey, don't give away all my secrets, a helmet mounted 2,000 watt light would be ideal, for all these stupid cold Wisconsin winters, it would put all those fur hats they wear up here to shame. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

cheese


----------



## Sway (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Cheese,

I was thinking a football shoulder pads with a landing light mounted to each side *ROAD WARROIR* style /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Later
Kelly


----------



## NewBie (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Humm, I'd consider road warrior a fella in a football uniform, with a 120 lbs pack on his back, and holding the electrodes in his hands to manually gap the arc, a road warrior.

Cheesehead, my 2X boosted Thor is well beyond 10% of the rated life. Probably due to the soft start that prevents the massive inrush of current into the bulb from shortening the life. See my graph for light output verses input voltage earlier in the thread.


----------



## cheesehead (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

So, the road warrior could stay warm and get a tan. Perfect for a Wisconsin winter. I'll start sharpening my pencils for the electrodes.

I saw your graph, very impressive, I had the same suspicion about voltage drop (and thus true output with these so called "100 watt" lights) with a standard SLA battery. None of my lights actually measured 100 watts. I just didn't know how to solve this problem/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif. 

The soft start is another very good idea. Seems like it's working out in practice. 

So, when are you putting out the "sign up sheet"? It's getting closer towards mid-November /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

cheese


----------



## moondog (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Got my thor yesterday, man its huge!!! cant wait to make it even brighter more power hehe.


----------



## NewBie (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Okay, starting Thor Boost signup thread.


----------



## jtice (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

me me me me me me me me


----------



## JonSidneyB (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

How much Jar


----------



## jtice (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Thor Boost Signup list.


----------



## Scoob (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

How many volts do y'all think an H3 100 watt bulb will take be fore it blows???? (for my Thor 3.5)


----------



## Shojin (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Looks like there's a 15 million candlepower Thor-X on the horizon.

http://www.cyclopssolutions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=products.viewproduct&CategoryID=12

Anyone have anymore info? Seems to use the same lamp.


----------



## NewBie (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Did some testing on various bulbs at various power levels, with the Boost Supply

The Boost Supply that turns the standard Thor-X into a Thor's Hammer will be set to max out at 15V.

The CEC 100W bulb is a standard halogen bulb you'd find at your average auto parts place.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

[ QUOTE ]
*Shojin said:*
Looks like there's a 15 million candlepower Thor-X on the horizon.

http://www.cyclopssolutions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=products.viewproduct&CategoryID=12

Anyone have anymore info? Seems to use the same lamp. 

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe... Commercial Flashlight evolution is going pretty fast lately. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Has anyone bought the lights from this company? I was curious about their Helios-6 LED Headlamp. Please PM me with info so as Not to Hijack this great thread.


----------



## NewBie (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Here is the voltage current combination for each bulb:


----------



## iddibhai (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

nicely done! the stock philips is really something, and more surprising, the 130w Narva is complete rubbish it would seem, at least in this application.


----------



## NewBie (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Do you have any information on the focus distance, maybe the 130W puts the filament in a slightly different spot, or it's wound diameter or length is larger.


----------



## iddibhai (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

the high beam filament on the 130 appears just a tad larger diameter coil and a bit longer, but the specs for the shielded low beam filament are the same for both 100 and 130w units. i'll get some more info and let you know. good point, though.


----------



## NewBie (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I figured that I'd show some plots using one of the stock batteries and an old prototype boost board I made.

Keep in mind, this is running the *Thor's Hammer* (booster board name), at 15V to the bulb, or full output.

It is manually adjustable with the control you install on the flashlight.

At this discharge rate, the Ampere Hour capacity of the stock battery drops to about 1/2. There are other batteries on the market, called a High Rate battery, such as the BB Battery HR9-12 that would probably do about 20% better.

This setup is utilizing all the stock wiring and switch (both somewhat lossy).


----------



## Brock (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I was going to ask how it responds to being plugged in, or charging while running. I take it as long as it's not above your set voltage it's fine, I guess if it is higher it will just be brighter

I also wanted to point out that the lamp's rated hours are probably at 13.5v, so 14 or even the 15 isn't to far above that.


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## NewBie (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

The different versions of Thor's have different guts on the jack board, some are direct, one has a tiny diode on it, I'd assume it is for the AC charger input. I didn't draw up the schematic for the little board that is inside the Thor yet.

A one second glance makes it appear the DC input is wired after the battery, so an external power source shouldn't be much of an issue, if whatever you hook it up to can handle the load.

Charging while running (AC input), never tried that, and one version of the manual warns against it. The circuit is after the bulb, so it "shouldn't" hurt anything that the bulb can't hurt.

[ QUOTE ]
*Brock said:*
I also wanted to point out that the lamp's rated hours are probably at 13.5v, so 14 or even the 15 isn't to far above that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, and the slight increase in input results in alot more light output, and higher efficiencies for the bulb, as well as a much whiter looking light output. Especially over the stock Thor configuration.


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## Brock (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I am getting mine soon, but do you mean using the external 12v jack bypasses the internal battery to feed the lamp directly? If so I will just have to rewire it to parallel the battery since that is most likely how I will charge it, which is paralleling it with my 1000a 12v bank, charged via solar panels. I just have to watch it when the voltage gets up there to not boil out the SLA.


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## Brock (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I’ve got the light now. If you plug anything in to the "charger" port it shuts off the lamp. If what ever you plugged in to the charger port has 12v it lights up the LED. When I fired it up and plugged it in to the idling car (14v) I saw no difference in brightness as I plugged it in. Odd, I know the wires are quite small on the car end as well as the lighter cord that came with the light, but I though I would have seen some increase in brightness. Which also means the battery must be pretty well charged, nice.


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## NewBie (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Swell, you finally got one, what do you think? BTW, what do you think of the Packers?

LOL, you have a 1000A bank? Geesh.

You might want to put some sort of charging limit circuit in there for the charge rate?

If I get a chance, I'll see what the stock Thor "circuit" does.

Right now I'm charging up another brand of battery to do a runtime test on it, not all Thors have the same battery in them.

As far as plugging it in, it doesn't take a very long cord of poor guage wires to drop a good chunk of voltage.


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## Brock (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

The light is big, I only got to play with it for about a minute in our parking lot, it was noticeably brighter then the car’s blights. 

Packers, they are starting to turn around after our nice 4 game loosing streak…

I will run some test's on mine tonight. As far as plugging it in to the 12v bank, I will most likely fuse it at 5A and run it thought about 15 feet of #16. So if there is a huge load the wire will act as resistance. I am more worried about during the day in full sun, the charge controller tops out at 14.4v, I would suspect to high for the SLA. Although most of the time the batteries float about 13.4v so I wouldn’t think much would get pushed in to the SLA at that lower voltage.


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## NewBie (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Brock, I was reading about charging these, and one method runs 2.10A max to the battery as a constant current for 80% of the charge, and then puts 14.7V on it, and waits until it drops to 70mA, before going to float mode.

Anyhow, here is a run with another stock brand battery that comes with some of the Thors, looks a bit better:


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## Brock (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Do you have a stock setup run to put against these? I know I have see similar data in your other graphs. Have you done a 14v run? Don't do them just for me if you haven't.

What is the drop off voltage on the the input side?


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## NewBie (Nov 21, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Not ignoring you, I'll see what I can do Brock.

Here is a graph adding another battery I just picked up today as a spare:


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## NewBie (Nov 21, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Okay, another chart, with the voltage turned down to 13V to the bulb.

Notice how there is less of an increase in runtime at 13V than you'd expect at first glance. Yes, the draw is less, but not as much as you'd expect. At 13V, the draw is 92.5587 Watts, where at 15V it was 116.2305 Watts. This is a 20.37 decrease in input power, and a 31.23% decrease in light output. What is happening is that the bulb becomes less efficient.


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## NewBie (Nov 21, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Here you'll note a slight loss in overall efficiency when comparing the stock Thor to the others. I noticed the stock wiring heats up more which means the losses in the stock wiring increases due to the higher current demands. There is also a bit of loss due to the converter itself.

**Also note the battery that was utilized in each test, when making comparisons***


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## cheesehead (Nov 21, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

That explains the 45 minute runtime. It's easy to get 45 minutes out of an underdriven bulb with a typical inefficient SLA. Brilliant work.

cheese


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## NewBie (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Yes, see the first few posts in the thread where I talked about all the losses in the THOR and the power that the bulb actually sees.


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## Brock (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Looks like what I thought it would. Nice and flat on that 13v run.

It appears that the 12v non-charger jack is direct connected to the batteries. I did play with it and set it for 15v at the lamp by overcharging the battery directly on the battery. Nice!!! I had to push the battery to 16.1v to get 15v to the lamp. I haven't messed with any of the wiring yet, I wait for the board to beef up the wiring.

So what is low? Is it a dual filament lamp? Is it running the hi-low with the two in series? In high, is it running both filaments? I haven't taken mine apart yet, not enough time.


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## cheesehead (Nov 24, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Brock,
In low it runs both filaments in series, interesting idea. You can re-wire it anyway you want, I did, just not on purpose. 

Newbie, 
It seems like wire gauge alone doesn't account for all the voltage loss. I assume a lot is in the connections? With your overdrive circuit, would the wires even have to be replaced anyway (ideally, yes, but is it absolutely needed?)

cheese


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## NewBie (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I have a prototype that has been running many hours, and I used it for alot of testing, multiple bulbs, various battery tests, etc. and it is doing fine.

Some of the voltage loss is from the battery under load, some at each connection, some in the wires, some on the board, and some in the switches.


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## moondog (Nov 25, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

How much difference would it make soldering the wires directly to the bulb? Im getting ready to change all the wires to 10 gage and figured soldering to the bulb wouldnt be any harder than soldering to the connectors.
Steve


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## cheesehead (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

If you can hear the "sonic" difference with monster cables, then you'll likely see the difference with direct soldering, i.e. the difference being imperceptible.


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## carnal (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

What about merely replacing the wiring and adding a 6V "Strap on battery" to the side of the Thor? I know soft start would help--so start it at internal 11V then throw the instantaneous "6V strap on bat in series" switch to make it 17 volt (actuall running voltage). 

You could even make a rotary switch that started at 11v (12 V bat minus internal resistance). Each click would increase voltage by .7V to graduate power upwards. A diode in series on each click would regulate. By the time you get to the last click you would be at theoretical 18 v but in reality probably be a 16 or so due to internal resistance of batteries.

I know this seems like extra weight but in reality lets the internal bat run at its normal amp hour rating at 12 V, not being pushed by a regulator circuit, and therby running longer per charge. 

What do yall think? Me personally I like the "strap on"
idea--its very cheap (cost of a 6v emergency exit lighting bat, a rotary switch, and a few diodes). Home Depot has 6V emerg exit light bat for around $10.

Brian


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## NewBie (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

The stock bulb will turn into trash above 16V.


Cheesehead, 
At 7-10A, you can actually measure the voltage drop at the slip on lug terminals...


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## markdi (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

besides newbies mod is slicker.
who want's to add another battery to the outside of a thor ?
I may have to buy another thor. 
to host a newbie mod.
with newbies mod you should be able to dim the thor for increased runtime.


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## cheesehead (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Carnal, 

The only pain would be recharging. And the Thor would get another 4-5 lbs, but once you're over 10 lbs for a light, who's counting?

NB, 

Hmm, I don't think you could "see" the difference, but it would drive me nuts thinking that the lug terminals are using up juice for no reason. Eh, I guess I'll be rewiring.


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## carnal (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Hey cheesehead,
What is the cost and supplier of your 24V landing light?

I'm interested. Would you put a 24V bat in your Thor? Then boost to 30V? And your landing light--will fit fine in the Thor's front end?


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## cheesehead (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I got some bulbs from Skygeek and one on ebay. The bulbs are about 30 bucks from Skygeek, and less on ebay-but you take your chances there. The bulbs would roughly fit in the Thor, but the only prolem is that even with a 7 amp hour battery, you'd only get 4-5 minutes of runtime. But I guess at 1,000 watts, how much do you need (or should expect)? It would be a great light.


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## lasercrazy (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Could this be a better battery for the thor? I looked on batterystation's website and got this info.
12 VOLT 
PART # MFR (V) (Ah) L X W X H (in inches) LBS TERMINAL PRICE 
HZS12-9 Haze 12V 9.0Ah 5.95 X 2.50 X 3.75 5.9 .250 SPADE $ 17.00


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## markdi (Dec 7, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

I think the extra 2 amps im this form factor may come with more internal cell resistance.

a hid mod would benifit from the 9 amp battery-I think.

I could be wrong.


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## lasercrazy (Dec 9, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Any updates?


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## Skibane (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

Regarding bulb life:

According to internet lore, every 10 percent increase over the designed operating voltage of an incandescent bulb reduces its life expectancy by roughly 50 percent. Thus, since the Philips 12569 bulb shown in *NewBie*'s datasheet is rated for 100 hours of operation at 13.2 volts, its lifespan should be around 50 hours at 14.5 volts, 25 hours at a tad under 16 volts, or 12.5 hours at 17.5 volts – not too shabby by flashlight bulb standards.

Note that this rule of thumb ignores the damaging effects of startup surge current, as well as thermal limitations (bulb and/or socket overheating).


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## cy (Dec 24, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

looking good..


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## cheesehead (Dec 26, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Newbie is also incorporating soft start, so bulb life will likely be much more than expected.


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## thesurefire (Dec 26, 2004)

*Re: Just Wondering....*

Cant wait for this one Newbie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## Sway (Jan 2, 2005)

Jar,

Do you have an idea of what the size of the finished board will be at this point? I wouldn’t mind trying to squeeze one it into some other host than the Thor /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Later
Kelly


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## Raybo (Jan 2, 2005)

Would that happen to be a 240 Sway? 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


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## Raybo (Jan 2, 2005)

Oh yea, if it is a 240 than your read my mind.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## Sway (Jan 2, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Raybo said:*
Oh yea, if it is a 240 than your read my mind.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Raybo you are a mind reader /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I have tested the Blitz pill at 14.25V that’s the max my power supply will go and it's scaldingly bright compared to feeding it from a 12.8V SLA.

Sorry no beam shots I don't have an extra host for it right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif 

Later
Kelly


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## oklalawman (Jan 2, 2005)

Kelly could you use a computer power adapter to run a 12 volt recepticle in your car at say 15 wattts? Would that do the same thing? I had my laptop in my patrol car and the SL240 sits next to it...so I was thinking....hmmmmmmm


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## Tomcat (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: Thor Spot Light information*

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
Okay, Thor II mods....

First, lets get rid of all those losses in the wiring:







[/ QUOTE ]

Hello Newbie (and all),

Just got my new Thors (3 of them!) and ready to start modding one of them. Is the above quoted post complete or am I missing some of it? If nothing is missing then are you just saying to replace all of the wiring with 8-guage and solder the connections where possible? What about the losses in the switches, etc. that you mention in a previous message? I want to do this thing right.

BTW: The arrival of my new Thors was definitely not a dissapointment. They are truly awesome even though they don't appear 10 times as bright as the (2) 1MCP lights that I already own (to the naked eye at least). When my wife got a look at these behemoths she said, "You're a very sick man". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Lastly, I am *VERY* ready for your boost mods that I signed up for (2 of them). I'm ready to PayPal you the funds ASAP. What's the latest on this project?

Regards,

Tomcat


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## Sway (Jan 7, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*oklalawman said:*
Kelly could you use a computer power adapter to run a 12 volt recepticle in your car at say 15 wattts? Would that do the same thing? I had my laptop in my patrol car and the SL240 sits next to it...so I was thinking....hmmmmmmm 

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh’ I don’t know much about mobile laptop power supplies /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif I do know the Halogen Blitz is much brighter and has better color when driven above 14V than running it from a 12V SLA battery pack due to the voltage sag. 

I don’t know how you are powering your Blitz but if you have a spare lighter plug, plug it in and compare it with the engine off and running you should be getting close to 14.7V to the plug then you have to count in the loss for the wiring harness.

We need a boost board for the Halogen Blitz /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later
Kelly


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## NewBie (Jan 17, 2005)

Okay, did some testing on the side while doing other things.

Looks like some of the fancy batteries will give you another 25-33% longer runtime.


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## IsaacHayes (Jan 18, 2005)

JarHead: I know the bulb is underdriven on a 12v SLA that sags with load and not powered at 13.8v. But, what if someone were to upgrade the wiring, and add a relay. Would it make any difference in visual brightness? Would a relay not be worth it?


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## Brock (Jan 18, 2005)

Adding a relay to switch it on and off would actually add resistance to the circuit as a whole. You are better off with just thicker wire that is as short as it can be and a good switch. The easiest thing would be is someone made a 7 cell lead acid battery that was 14v under load, but sense that doesn't exist just boost it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## cy (Jan 18, 2005)

is there such a thing as a H bulb that is designed to be driven at 12V actual VS 13.8-14.2V a typical altenator would deliver.


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## NewBie (Jan 23, 2005)

I hope to flatten out the output with the new circuit design, various issues are causing it. Efficiency should be better too.


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## cy (Jan 23, 2005)

hey jar, PP is ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## IsaacHayes (Jan 23, 2005)

Watching this thread. Looking for more runtime and definate price. Also looking to get a thor in the first place somewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## dannonlae (Jan 26, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
Okay, did some testing on the side while doing other things.

Looks like some of the fancy batteries will give you another 25-33% longer runtime.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Newbie, do you know of a good place to buy either the panasonic or the bb battery? do you have a recommendation for one or the other? i thought i saw somewhere the BB was too spendy for what it was, so the best upgrade option was the panasonic. Hey, if you want help shipping these out let me know, it would be fun to help out since i live in Oregon also.


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## NewBie (Feb 8, 2005)

Dannonlae,

There is a distributor on the BB Battery based out of Portland that has shops around the Willamette Valley, I know one is in Salem, where I got mine.

The Panasonic special UPS battery I got from DigiKey was spendy after shipping.

PM me your city if ya would!


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## Roy (Feb 8, 2005)

This thread has gotten too large and is being closed. Here is the link to the new thread: Boosted Thor ~3x Output - Part 2 .


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