# Eneloop 1st Generation Vs 4th Generation Cycle Testing



## Power Me Up (Feb 20, 2014)

This might be of some interest to others here - I've just posted some test results comparing 1st generation Eneloops to 4th generation Eneloops:

http://www.ultrasmartcharger.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69


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## ChrisGarrett (Feb 20, 2014)

Thanks for sharing.

What are the date codes on both batteries?

I realize that Gen. 4s are probably from the latter half of 2013, but what about the Gen. 1s?

Chris


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## Power Me Up (Feb 20, 2014)

I've mentioned the dates on the other page, but they're October 2006 for the 1st gen cell and June 2013 for the 4th gen.


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## neutralwhite (Feb 21, 2014)

question; if i were to buy some eneloop pro AAA , i see some are BK-4HCC and some are 3HCC. which are better to have?.
i see some on cpfmp 3HCC and ebay 4HCC.
differences are generations but do the same thing?.

thank you.


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## Power Me Up (Feb 21, 2014)

neutralwhite said:


> question; if i were to buy some eneloop pro AAA , i see some are BK-4HCC and some are 3HCC. which are better to have?.
> i see some on cpfmp 3HCC and ebay 4HCC.
> differences are generations but do the same thing?.



ChibiM has put together a useful table showing the codes for all of the different Eneloops here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?364607-Overview-All-eneloop-batteries-2005-2014

The BK-4HCC are 3rd Generation XX AAA cells - the most recent version. The BK-3HCC are 3rd Generation XX *AA* cells.


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## Mr Floppy (Feb 23, 2014)

Heh, ultrasmartcharger. Wish you guys picked a better name. Good to see the new charger in action


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## Power Me Up (Feb 23, 2014)

What's wrong with "UltraSmartCharger"?

I like the name, but I might be a bit biased since I came up with it!


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## Power Me Up (Mar 2, 2014)

I've updated the post that I've linked to above with more results. The 1st gen cell is now out of the test, but the 4th gen cell is still going:
http://www.ultrasmartcharger.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69


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## Etsu (Mar 2, 2014)

So, if you're comparing an 8-year old gen-1 cell against a 1-year old gen-4, I think the 8 year old Eneloop is holding up extremely well. I wouldn't have though it would hold it's original capacity even on the first few cycles, and certainly not after a couple of hundred cycles!

I would be interesting to see how an 8 year old gen-4 would hold up. Test again in 7 years? ;-)


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## Power Me Up (Mar 2, 2014)

Etsu said:


> So, if you're comparing an 8-year old gen-1 cell against a 1-year old gen-4, I think the 8 year old Eneloop is holding up extremely well. I wouldn't have though it would hold it's original capacity even on the first few cycles, and certainly not after a couple of hundred cycles!



The 1st gen cell is actually closer to 7 years old - not quite 7.5 years old now. That said, it's still quite old, so it's done quite well as you say. I'm not all that surprised myself though - all of my other 1st gen cells are doing well still (except for the few that have been abused)

I think it's reasonably clear than any fears of Eneloops becoming useless after sitting unused for 10 years are probably unfounded!



> I would be interesting to see how an 8 year old gen-4 would hold up. Test again in 7 years? ;-)



Maybe! It might be more interesting to test a 15 year old 1st Gen cell versus a new 8th gen (or whatever they're up to by then!)

Eneloops are already so good that it's hard to imagine how much better they can get though!


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## Etsu (Mar 2, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> Eneloops are already so good that it's hard to imagine how much better they can get though!



Hopefully, they will continue to improve them. Now that Panasonic bought them out, I hope they don't change the quality standards. There's not a lot of profit to be made if batteries last 10+ years, but I hope they continue to do so.


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## Power Me Up (Mar 2, 2014)

Etsu said:


> There's not a lot of profit to be made if batteries last 10+ years, but I hope they continue to do so.



It might seem that way, but I think that it's a huge competitive advantage that means they'll get more market share. I think it's better to have a good reputation for quality and continue to sell Eneloops to a larger and larger percent of the population than to sell rubbish that just puts people off buying more again in the future - at least it did for a lot of people prior to the Eneloop being introduced. Remember the Energizer 2500's!

I suppose it could be argued that if they only lasted 5 years, that would still be good enough for most people to still buy them - I'm guessing (and hoping) that this isn't possible without also making them less robust in normal use and that would deter them from making such a change.

I've also bought far more Eneloops than any other type of rechargeables - because they're suitable for so many more applications than the old NiMH cells that would be flat before they'd been used! (I'm a long way from typical though - I've got over 300 rechargeable NiMH cells floating around!)

Of course, what I think is reasonable hasn't stopped plenty of other companies from moving manufacturing off shore, reducing quality and keeping the price the same - let's hope that Panasonic doesn't follow suit!


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## Mr Floppy (Mar 2, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> What's wrong with "UltraSmartCharger"?
> 
> I like the name, but I might be a bit biased since I came up with it!



It makes it sound like something you'd see in the aisles of a supermarket or infomercial. Still, it's not unlike an Australian to tell it like he sees it.

edit: great by the way. Wish I was one of the backers and got one of these


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## Viking (Mar 3, 2014)

Hi Power Me Up

Thanks for sharing the very interesting test results with us. I really appreciate it.
Only question ; what was the slow discharge rate set to , in the ”slow discharge” test?


BTW 

I think it would be a mistake to add a fan in the next test. They already have better ventilation in the UltraSmart Charger as it is , than they would have under real conditions ( lying tight side by side in a small enclosed compartment , with no space for the heat to escape ).
Also I would like to see a little more resting time for the cells.
Just my opinion  


I'm looking very much forward for your further updates in this test , as well as for the next test with generation 2.


Again thank you for sharing the results :thumbsup:


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## Power Me Up (Mar 3, 2014)

Mr Floppy said:


> It makes it sound like something you'd see in the aisles of a supermarket or infomercial.



Ah!



> Still, it's not unlike an Australian to tell it like he sees it.



I'll take that as a complement! ;-)



> edit: great by the way. Wish I was one of the backers and got one of these



Actually, Paul has started selling a limited quantity of the non LCD chargers if you want to get one:
http://www.paulallenengineering.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html


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## Power Me Up (Mar 3, 2014)

Viking said:


> Hi Power Me Up
> 
> Thanks for sharing the very interesting test results with us. I really appreciate it.
> Only question ; what was the slow discharge rate set to , in the ”slow discharge” test?



It's a little bit lower than the standard 0.2C rate - it's discharging into a 4 ohm load, so about 300 mA on average but reducing a little as the cell discharges.

I'm thinking about building a constant current sink to use for the next test - I'll then have it running at a full 2amps for the fast discharges and 400mA for the slow discharges.



> BTW
> 
> I think it would be a mistake to add a fan in the next test. They already have better ventilation in the UltraSmart Charger as it is , than they would have under real conditions ( lying tight side by side in a small enclosed compartment , with no space for the heat to escape ).
> Also I would like to see a little more resting time for the cells.
> Just my opinion



You're right that there is more ventilation, but I am charging and discharging at high rates and I'm also not allowing much rest time as you say. I suspect that the higher temperature is what is causing the cells to degrade so quickly, so it will be interesting to see the results of keeping them cool. It wouldn't surprise me if even with forced air cooling, the 2 amp charging and discharging will still have the cells running at a higher temperature than when charging at the normal 1 amp rate.



> I'm looking very much forward for your further updates in this test , as well as for the next test with generation 2.
> 
> 
> Again thank you for sharing the results :thumbsup:



No problem - thanks for the feedback!


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## Mr Floppy (Mar 3, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> Actually, Paul has started selling a limited quantity of the non LCD chargers if you want to get one:
> http://www.paulallenengineering.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html



Yep, sure do, funds permitting. Got a few unopened first generation Eneloops too that I can do. Infact, could get quite a large varied sample of the first gens just from just the community. Where did you get your first gens? These ones I have I think I bought from ****ies but bought them from all over the Internet too.


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## Power Me Up (Mar 4, 2014)

Mr Floppy said:


> Yep, sure do, funds permitting.



Fair enough. Paul is planning to keep making them, but if you want one that can discharge into an external load, you might want to jump in while they're still available - the next revision will likely lose that capability (but gain other features in its place)



> Got a few unopened first generation Eneloops too that I can do. Infact, could get quite a large varied sample of the first gens just from just the community. Where did you get your first gens? These ones I have I think I bought from ****ies but bought them from all over the Internet too.



I've got a total of ten 1st generation AA Eneloops still in unopened packs. One pack of 2 (with AA to D adapters) was bought directly from the Australian distributor at the same time as the one that I was using for this test. The other 8 are in 2 packs of 4 - bought from Thomas Distributing - both of those packs are even older with a manufacturing date of April 2006!


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## Power Me Up (Mar 6, 2014)

Another update - the 4th generation Eneloop is now up to 500 cycles.

Performance is still dropping off quite quickly and I'd expect it to continue to do so, but I'd estimate that it should still manage another 100 cycles or so.


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## ChrisGarrett (Mar 6, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> Another update - the 4th generation Eneloop is now up to 500 cycles.
> 
> Performance is still dropping off quite quickly and I'd expect it to continue to do so, but I'd estimate that it should still manage another 100 cycles or so.



Thanks for the work. I take it, they don't like the ball-gag that you're throwing their way?

Chris


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## SaraAB87 (Mar 7, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> It might seem that way, but I think that it's a huge competitive advantage that means they'll get more market share. I think it's better to have a good reputation for quality and continue to sell Eneloops to a larger and larger percent of the population than to sell rubbish that just puts people off buying more again in the future - at least it did for a lot of people prior to the Eneloop being introduced. Remember the Energizer 2500's!
> 
> I suppose it could be argued that if they only lasted 5 years, that would still be good enough for most people to still buy them - I'm guessing (and hoping) that this isn't possible without also making them less robust in normal use and that would deter them from making such a change.
> 
> ...



There has to be a good battery on the market. If batteries are so bad, people will not buy products powered by them. Or people will scrutinize carefully how many batteries each toy or product takes, and how long battery life is on each product. Products that take too many batteries or that drain them too quickly will be left on the shelves for products that don't drain batteries as quickly especially when it comes to toys. Products that consumers are finding to be too battery draining might be returned to the store a lot more than others. For non returnable products people may just throw them away meaning less batteries will be sold to power those things. I know a lot of people who just throw away toys once the batteries die, since that is considered end of life of the product for a lot of people.

If a manufacturer just started producing crap batteries that die in a week for the purpose of trying to sell more batteries people would eventually stop buying that brand. Fortunately things seem to be going in the opposite direction. They seem to be trying to stuff batteries with more and more capacity.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Mar 8, 2014)

Etsu said:


> ... There's not a lot of profit to be made if batteries last 10+ years, but I hope they continue to do so...<snip>





Power Me Up said:


> ... I suppose it could be argued that if they only lasted 5 years, that would still be good enough for most people to still buy them...<snip>





SaraAB87 said:


> There has to be a good battery on the market...<snip>



It may be worth pointing out here that the Japanese consumer market is very different from the USA consumer market, and likely very different from anywhere else in the world.

I would not say that Japanese are particularly wasteful people. In fact, they can be (and often are) extremely frugal. Even Japanese young people know how to save money, and young single women working in offices often have many tens of thousands of dollars in cash savings. (Whereas, in the USA, most young people are living on maxed out credit cards.)

What I find interesting is that that same "frugal" person will allocate a substantial sum for a short trip to Europe, and somehow seem unsatisfied (as though they won't enjoy their trip) unless they spend every allocated penny. So, they enjoy extravagant meals, purchase extravagant gifts, etc. It is kind of hard to explain. They will work very hard and scrape to save tiny amounts during day-to-day living, and then "blow" all their money on one 3 day trip.

Anyway, there is a strange phenomenon in Japan where consumers often (usually?) want the very best. Things are changing some, but used to be, you simply could not find low cost items for sale. No matter how cheap they were, no one wanted them. Being cheaper did not add to the attraction of the product. (This has changed some, but the change may be driven by the relatively large number of immigrants who now live in Japan. I believe that most genuine Japanese may still greatly prefer more expensive products.)

What is truly ironic is that the same "frugal" Japanese consumer will often throw away perfectly good (still functioning, and perfectly useful) consumer items, and replace them with the "latest thing."

I do not know of anyone actually having done this, but it would not surprise me to learn that someone threw away all their Generation 1, 2 and perhaps even 3 Eneloops, and replaced them all with Generation 4, simply because they decided that Generation 4 was "better."

Strange phenomenon, but it does exist.


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## SaraAB87 (Mar 11, 2014)

The USA thrives on the cheapest, disposable stuff. Hence the market for low cost (in the short term) alkalines. We also want things to be as quick and easy as possible here so for most American consumers, having rechargable batteries is too much work. Heck for some, changing a battery is too much work. Not that it takes more than a few seconds to charge, discharge and refresh, because the charger just sits there and does all the work. I simply push the buttons and take out the battery when the charger says full.

I am not sure about how disposable Japanese society is, from what I hear some people are still using CRT's over there, and they won't replace until the TV dies. So there must be a couple different styles of living over there, probably related to the generation the person grew up in.

As for the cost of batteries, you have to shop around and buy when there is a sale. I pay about $7 per pack of rechargables this way, more than worth it.


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## Etsu (Mar 11, 2014)

SaraAB87 said:


> I am not sure about how disposable Japanese society is, from what I hear some people are still using CRT's over there, and they won't replace until the TV dies. So there must be a couple different styles of living over there, probably related to the generation the person grew up in.



Economically, Japan suffered from deflation for a couple of decades, starting in the early 1990's. That leads to people not buying new stuff, because deflation means that it will be cheaper if they simply wait. This leads to lower wages, further downward pressure on goods, and people still refusing to buy new stuff.

So it may not be cultural. It may simply be a bi-product of the way their economy performed for so many years. 

If Japan gets some inflation going (as they are trying to do), the trend may reverse itself and they will become just as wasteful as Americans!


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## Rosoku Chikara (Mar 11, 2014)

SaraAB87 said:


> ...from what I hear some people are still using CRT's over there, and they won't replace until the TV dies...<snip>



Not trying to make a big deal out the relatively minor comment I made about the unusual nature of the Japanese consumer market, but I think the person that you "heard" your information from, must have been referring to another country. 

Especially, the TV replacement part. Even given the poor economy of the last couple decades, everyone I know replaces their TV with the "latest thing" with extreme rapidity. One guy I know recently "threw away" an expensive giant screen plasma TV and replaced it with a far more efficient, similar sized LCD unit, because he was unhappy with the amount of electricity the plasma unit was consuming.  He actually paid the people who delivered his new TV to take his old TV away with them when they left.

Perhaps the best evidence of this tendency to throw away functional items, is the fact that you can pick up literally dozens of functioning TVs at the dump every year around New Years (when Japanese typically have a major house cleaning). 

Unlike the "old days" when the dump was desolate, you will now often find plenty of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nigerian, etc., immigrants competing to retrieve those functioning TVs. In the old days, it was easy for foreigners visiting Japan for a short stay to fully equip themselves with TV, VCR, stereo, etc., all retrieved from the dump. I see no evidence that this has changed all that much. (As I have pointed out before, the only thing that is different these days is that there is now, a previously non-existent market for such used products, which are being primarily bought and sold among immigrants.)

[I should add here that part of the problem is that you cannot even give old things away. No one wants them, and they would be insulted if you offered them your old TV. Of course, there are some exceptions. For example, you might give your old TV to your friend's son who is living in a dorm room. But, truthfully, he probably already has a better TV than you do. Unless it is some exception like that, where you know the recipient and their financial situation rather intimately, you really cannot safely offer to give used things away. In Japan, when you give a gift is must be very nice (brand new), or else it can easily be taken as an intentional insult. ("Here, have my cast off garbage...") People read way too much "between the lines" over here, and honest good intentions can easily be misconstrued.]

As for CRTs, I visit numerous Japanese businesses both large and small, and I cannot recall the last time I ever saw a CRT. If nothing else, space is always at a premium in Japan, so Japanese businesses cannot "waste" the space on bulky CRT units.

The only two possible exceptions that I can think of are local government offices, and some individuals who, despite having purchased a PC when they first came out, never really joined the PC "revolution." (Some Japanese do remain completely computer illiterate.)

I don't recall ever having seen a CRT at a local government office, but I guess I would not be all that surprised if such an a office were still using such old technology. (The smaller offices are often underfunded these days, and they also have to deal with angry citizens who might feel that "unnecessary" equipment upgrades by the government were inappropriate in this economy.)

The last time I can recall (for certain) seeing a CRT in Japan was a few years ago when I guy I know picked up an "NEC" desktop with CRT and printer from his neighborhood trash disposal spot. He brought it home and everything worked perfectly. Very old and outdated OS, but still a perfectly functional computer. Practically an antique, but he found it interesting. (And, you couldn't beat the price = "free for the taking.")

The only other thing I can say is that "I speak from first hand experience":

I picked up my first rice cooker from the trash. It had been carefully washed, and placed there in a "loving" manner, so I decided to take it home, and sure enough, it was in perfect condition. I used it for over 15 years. And then, when I finally upgraded to an expensive pressurized IH model, I then was the one who next threw away this still perfectly functional rice cooker. (Very few Japanese will "stoop" to the level of taking things out of the the trash. But, of course, it *was* left there "lovingly" in hopes that someone might take it. So, I won't say that it never happens, only that it is highly unusual.)


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## ChrisGarrett (Mar 11, 2014)

Originally Posted by *SaraAB87* 


_...from what I hear some people are still using CRT's over there, and they won't replace until the TV dies...<snip>_


Ha, at my parents' house in Los Angeles, they still have three CRT TVs running, a Toshiba, a Panasonic (VCR combo) and something else like a Sony. They have a few flat screens, but those CRTs (one in my old room and one in a sister's room) still work well enough whenever I go back visit, that throwing them out isn't necessary.

My dad has plenty of money, so it's not an financial thing, they just keep working and the Toshiba still has a nice picture.

Chris


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## shelm (Mar 12, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> Actually, Paul has started selling a limited quantity of the non LCD chargers if you want to get one:
> http://www.paulallenengineering.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html



somme funy prices there!!


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## ChibiM (Mar 13, 2014)

I see CRT TVs here and there..If I want, I can walk up to a house along a local park, where people still have a CRT TV. 
(walking home through a dark park, and walking past a lit up old house, with no curtains, its not difficult to see they have a CRT TV)
The funny thing is, when they transferred to Digital TV in 2011, that people told customers they can`t use their old CRT TV anymore, and people started buying LCD TVs. 
they usually didnt tell they could just buy a digital decoder for about $50 and keep using their CRT Tvs. 
Last time when I watched something on a CRT TV I was a little shocked.. as I haven`t watched anything on a CRT TV for a long time. 

I can see what Rosoku Chikara is saying, but still see some second hand stuff here and there. I love going to Akihabara, and the shops I like the best, are the second hand shops! and there are many.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Mar 13, 2014)

ChibiM said:


> ...I see CRT TVs here and there..If I want, I can walk up to a house along a local park, where people still have a CRT TV...<snip>



OK, I stand corrected. You still see a CRT TV here and there. As it happens, I don't. But, I certainly don't deny what you are seeing.

I am not really trying to be all that dogmatic about this issue. My real point is this: where things in the USA are often similar "in kind" (so, you might say that "That is also true in the USA.") the fact is that many things in Japan are often very different "in matter of degree." (In other words, Japan tends to be much more extreme.)

If you have lived in both the USA and Japan, I think it is quite obvious that the Japanese tend to dispose of functional items far more readily. 

(I recall my Japanese friends looking at American garage sales. They couldn't imagine that anyone would pay even $1.00 or $0.50 for "that junk." I, personally, enjoy shopping at Thrift stores, and I am often surprised by what can be "discovered" at a garage sale.)

[Also, in my opinion, the situation of electronics at Akihabara is a bit different. All of my current LCD screens were purchased second hand in Akihabara. But, once again the big difference is how much, and how rapidly, the value of such second hand items tend to decline in Japan. I believe it is because most people still greatly prefer to purchase brand new, but you can purchase very recent electronics for less than 1/2 price, and they still look brand new, and often come with all their original packaging. I my opinion, items in that good of condition, and still so relatively new, would sell at 75% to 85% (perhaps even 90%) of their value in the USA. And, I would challenge you to tell me the last time you recall seeing a CRT monitor for sale at a second-hand shop in Akiharaba.]


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## SaraAB87 (Mar 13, 2014)

Half of my family still has CRT TV's so really I am not the one who should be talking about that hah. That comment came from my mother's friend who visited japan in the 90's and as you said the economy was different then, so there were different trends. 

I still own a CRT for old video games since you can't get the same picture on a flat screen. Also many people are starting to use old 19 and 20 inch ones for the repair of arcade games. Many monitors on arcade games are horribly burnt in by now or just not working. There are people who collect arcade games. So there is some demand there although it's very niche. Also some games, like the NES zapper or other light guns will not work at all on a flat screen, so if you want to play those, you need a CRT.

One thing I noticed about used goods from japan is that they are in immaculate condition, and basically look brand new. I frequently get used good from japan from a friend who makes frequent trips and they are always near perfect or perfect. Japanese would absolutely balk at the condition of some used goods being sold in America especially since some things are sold in horrible condition for within dollars of what you would pay for a new one (and people buy it too)

People still think their CRT's are worth big money here too because it's a TV, I often see CRT's priced at $50 or more or even $20 for a 13 inch. The Salvation Army here charges 24.99 or 49.99 for CRT's but if you go to the next town over you can get a 24 inch for 12.99 which is the lowest I have seen.


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## Kestrel (Mar 13, 2014)

After reading through this thread I think we're up to the third topic by now?


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## Power Me Up (Mar 31, 2014)

After about 750 cycles, the 4th generation cell has finally given up! More details on the page linked in the first post!


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## ChrisGarrett (Mar 31, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> After about 750 cycles, the 4th generation cell has finally given up! More details on the page linked in the first post!



So basically, about 35% of rated cycles?

Chris


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## Power Me Up (Mar 31, 2014)

ChrisGarrett said:


> So basically, about 35% of rated cycles?
> 
> Chris



Yes, but keep in mind that this was an accelerated test at high charge/discharge rates, elevated temperatures and short rests between charging and discharging, so I think that they did quite well under the circumstances. I'm pretty sure that the IEC testing method is also only partial charge/discharge cycles most of the time, so that would also be a factor.

I'm going to do a similar test, but try to keep the cells as cool as reasonably possible and see what sort of difference I get.


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## ChrisGarrett (Mar 31, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> Yes, but keep in mind that this was an accelerated test at high charge/discharge rates, elevated temperatures and short rests between charging and discharging, so I think that they did quite well under the circumstances. I'm pretty sure that the IEC testing method is also only partial charge/discharge cycles most of the time, so that would also be a factor.
> 
> I'm going to do a similar test, but try to keep the cells as cool as reasonably possible and see what sort of difference I get.



Thanks for the data. 750 cycles, at 1 cycle per week, is over 14 years. 2 times a week and that's 7 full years.

I appreciate 'truth in advertising,' so I'm hoping that they do yield 2100 cycles, at 80%, or greater capacity, but in the eternal scheme of things, I can live with 750 cycles, even 1000 would be kosher to me.

Chris


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## Etsu (Mar 31, 2014)

After 14 years, I'd be surprised if they still hold 80% of the original capacity, no matter how many times you used them.


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## Power Me Up (Mar 31, 2014)

Etsu said:


> After 14 years, I'd be surprised if they still hold 80% of the original capacity, no matter how many times you used them.



Considering that the 1st generation cell I tested is about 8 years old and didn't show any significant reduction in capacity, I wouldn't be surprised if they continued to work with light use well beyond 14 years myself!


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## Mr Floppy (Mar 31, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> After about 750 cycles, the 4th generation cell has finally given up! More details on the page linked in the first post!



Damnit, this and the post you did on Whirlpool about the Ikea batteries made me go and purchase one of these units. It was like auto-pilot. 

So it can't do the fast discharge, will it still let you do a slow discharge?


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## Power Me Up (Mar 31, 2014)

Mr Floppy said:


> Damnit, this and the post you did on Whirlpool about the Ikea batteries made me go and purchase one of these units. It was like auto-pilot.
> 
> So it can't do the fast discharge, will it still let you do a slow discharge?



The one that Paul is currently selling can do the fast discharge - if you attach external load resistors. If you don't attach external load resistors, it can still discharge into the 3.9 ohm resistors on the board - this gives a discharge current of about 300 mA for NiMH cells.


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## Mr Floppy (Apr 1, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> The one that Paul is currently selling can do the fast discharge - if you attach external load resistors. If you don't attach external load resistors, it can still discharge into the 3.9 ohm resistors on the board - this gives a discharge current of about 300 mA for NiMH cells.



Oops, sorry, I mean your now dead eneloop. Can it still hold its voltage with a slow discharge?


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## Power Me Up (Apr 1, 2014)

The 1st gen cell has taken a beating and it has trouble holding its voltage even with a slow discharge - even into the 3.9 ohm resistor, the voltage drops below 1V straight away but it does recover to a bit above 1V after it warms up a bit. IR is in the region of 1000 milliohms!

The 4th generation cell is only around 400 milliohms and can still hold a reasonable voltage when discharging it slowly.


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## ChibiM (Apr 2, 2014)

Quite interesting results!
would it be possible to repeat these tests with other brand cells? just out of great curiousity. 
(that would show the difference in quality over time)

2A charge and 1.7A discharge is quite tough though. I don`t think that they were rated to do 2100 cycles with that amount of current. So the results don`t particularly show that they can`t make the claimed cycles, but it definitely show that they can handle quite a bit of beating!!! for 700 cycles

Maybe if you had tested them with much less charging current (500mAh) and discharging (350mAh) current they would have made it? don`t know just thinking aloud.


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## Power Me Up (Apr 2, 2014)

ChibiM said:


> Quite interesting results!
> would it be possible to repeat these tests with other brand cells? just out of great curiousity.
> (that would show the difference in quality over time)



Yes, I'm planning to pit a Turnigy 2400 against an Eneloop XX and see how they compare. Later on, I might try a couple of Ikea cells since they seem to perform well and are available for a good price.



> 2A charge and 1.7A discharge is quite tough though. I don`t think that they were rated to do 2100 cycles with that amount of current. So the results don`t particularly show that they can`t make the claimed cycles, but it definitely show that they can handle quite a bit of beating!!! for 700 cycles



Yes, considering what they went through, 750 cycles for the 4th generation cell is actually quite good in my opinion - I wouldn't expect a lower quality cell to last anywhere near that long under the same conditions! I believe that the IEC cycle testing standard doesn't involve full charge/discharge cycles for most of the cycles and the rates are significantly lower as well.



> Maybe if you had tested them with much less charging current (500mAh) and discharging (350mAh) current they would have made it? don`t know just thinking aloud.



The problem with that is that it would take a *very* long time to run a test at those rates! 4 hours to charge and about 6 hours to discharge would mean 10 hours per cycle without any rest periods being thrown in - for 2000 cycles, you'd be looking at nearly 3 years of continuous cycling!

As well as the test between the Turnigy 2400 and Eneloop XX that I mentioned above, I'm also planning to run a test between a 2nd gen and another 4th gen cell - this time I'll try to keep the cells as cool as possible (cooler time of year, keep them away from the warm laptop and possibly have a fan moving air slowly over them) and see what sort of difference that makes - I suspect that keeping them cool will help them last for a lot more cycles.


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## ChibiM (Apr 2, 2014)

Great! 
I`m looking forward to seeing the results of those batteries. 
These kind of tests are very rare, or non-existent. 
I`m very glad you are taking your time and money to do all this!


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## Power Me Up (Apr 2, 2014)

ChibiM said:


> Great!
> I`m looking forward to seeing the results of those batteries.
> These kind of tests are very rare, or non-existent.
> I`m very glad you are taking your time and money to do all this!



Thanks for the feedback! 

Having the ability to do this type of testing is one of the main reasons why I got into Paul's charger and offered to write the firmware for it!


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## Power Me Up (Apr 2, 2014)

For anyone wanting a bit more detail on the IEC standard for cycle testing (which I'm not following) I found a summary on the following page:

http://www.large-battery.com/what-is-battery-cycle-life-test.html

It appears that you have to pay to get the full document...


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## Mr Floppy (Apr 3, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> The problem with that is that it would take a *very* long time to run a test at those rates! 4 hours to charge and about 6 hours to discharge would mean 10 hours per cycle without any rest periods being thrown in - for 2000 cycles, you'd be looking at nearly 3 years of continuous cycling!



Well, you better get started then. 

So it makes you wonder what scheme the manufacturers use to determine the number of cycles the cells will have. A month of testing perhaps and extrapolate the number based on the deterioration after that month?


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## luisdent (Apr 3, 2014)

Is it o.k. to charge eneloop batteries in any standard ni-mh battery charger? I have this charger: http://mattgadient.com/2006/05/05/energizer-chdc-ca-compact-aaaaa-nimh-battery-charger-review/ But I want to get eneloops for my new eagletec light... :-o


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## Power Me Up (Apr 4, 2014)

Mr Floppy said:


> Well, you better get started then.



Yes, sir! ;-)



> So it makes you wonder what scheme the manufacturers use to determine the number of cycles the cells will have. A month of testing perhaps and extrapolate the number based on the deterioration after that month?



With the IEC standard, I'm guessing that you're looking at around 120 days to run it to 500 cycles. They may run accelerated testing at 1C rates similar to how I've done my testing and estimate the results from slower testing - that would give much quicker results.


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## Power Me Up (Apr 4, 2014)

luisdent said:


> Is it o.k. to charge eneloop batteries in any standard ni-mh battery charger? I have this charger: http://mattgadient.com/2006/05/05/energizer-chdc-ca-compact-aaaaa-nimh-battery-charger-review/ But I want to get eneloops for my new eagletec light... :-o



You could use that charger, but I really wouldn't recommend it - even the page that you linked to doesn't appear to recommend it.

You would be much better off with a smart charger with individual control for each cell. There are quite a few different chargers that are recommended around here that you could choose from.

If finances are really tight, you could get away with that Energizer charger, but just don't be surprised when you don't get as many cycles out of your batteries!


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## mojo-chan (Apr 4, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> For anyone wanting a bit more detail on the IEC standard for cycle testing (which I'm not following) I found a summary on the following page:
> 
> http://www.large-battery.com/what-is-battery-cycle-life-test.html
> 
> It appears that you have to pay to get the full document...



The datasheet for each different Eneloop cell gives you the parameters under which they test and make their claims. Typically they so a very slow 200mA charge for 16 hours to ensure that the cell is at maximum capacity. Doing a fast 1h charge sometimes doesn't fully charge them due to early delta V or delta T cut-off, maybe 98% or something. After that they do discharge tests at various loads, say 400mA, 2000mA and 4000mA.

Note that you don't need to charge them at 200mA regularly, you can fast charge them for say 1000 cycles, then do a slow charge before testing just to ensure they are at peak capacity and you have a consistent starting point to make your measurements from.


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## Power Me Up (Apr 4, 2014)

mojo-chan said:


> The datasheet for each different Eneloop cell gives you the parameters under which they test and make their claims. Typically they so a very slow 200mA charge for 16 hours to ensure that the cell is at maximum capacity. Doing a fast 1h charge sometimes doesn't fully charge them due to early delta V or delta T cut-off, maybe 98% or something. After that they do discharge tests at various loads, say 400mA, 2000mA and 4000mA.



Unless you're looking at different data sheets than I am, they're not showing how they're testing the number of cycles that they can survive - they're just describing the methods that they used to determine capacity.


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## ChibiM (Apr 4, 2014)

For the 2nd generation, 1500 cycles, it shows that they stop countin the amount of cycles, when the capacity has decreased until 60% of original capacity. 
see this figure:




[/URL][/IMG]

These are according to JIS standards... (don`t know about IEC)


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## Power Me Up (Apr 4, 2014)

ChibiM said:


> For the 2nd generation, 1500 cycles, it shows that they stop countin the amount of cycles, when the capacity has decreased until 60% of original capacity.
> see this figure:
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting! Where did you find that figure?


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## ChibiM (Apr 4, 2014)

Panasonic website


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## Power Me Up (Apr 4, 2014)

ChibiM said:


> Panasonic website



Thanks for that!


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## ChibiM (Apr 4, 2014)

When we have collected more data (how tests are to be done, and when you have done more tests) I will update the info in the eneloop overview thread. I can imagine some people questioning eneloop quality in the long run. And some people want to know where those number eg.1000/1500/1800/2100cycles come from.


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## Power Me Up (Apr 4, 2014)

ChibiM said:


> When we have collected more data (how tests are to be done, and when you have done more tests) I will update the info in the eneloop overview thread. I can imagine some people questioning eneloop quality in the long run. And some people want to know where those number eg.1000/1500/1800/2100cycles come from.



Sounds good to me. 

You'll just need to include a disclaimer to indicate that the results weren't obtained by following the same standard as the manufacturer: I don't think I'm likely to follow the same test procedure and I won't be running the air conditioning for months at a time to keep the temperature constant, so at best, I'm only giving a rough confirmation of what the cells are capable of. Without keeping things like the room temperature constant, it's impossible for others to exactly replicate my testing conditions.

With all that being said, I think it will be interesting to see how the results come out and to be able to get some idea of how other brands of cells compare to Eneloops!


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## Viking (Apr 4, 2014)

ChibiM said:


> For the 2nd generation, 1500 cycles, it shows that they stop countin the amount of cycles, when the capacity has decreased until 60% of original capacity.
> see this figure:
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting.

That corresponds very well to the link explaining the IEC standard Power Me Up posted.
The 2nd generation eneloop is a 1500 cycles battery. The battery in the example below explaining the IEC standard , is probably a 500 cycles battery.



> Ni-CD battery and Ni-MH *battery cycle life test* in IEC standard as follow,
> 0.2CBatterydischarge to 1.0V,
> a. 0.1C charge battery for 16 hours, then 0.2C discharge for two and half hours (first cycle);
> b. 0.25C charge 3 hours and 10 minutes, then 0.25C discharge 2 hours and 20 minutes (2-48 cycles);
> ...


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## luisdent (Apr 6, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> You could use that charger, but I really wouldn't recommend it - even the page that you linked to doesn't appear to recommend it.
> 
> You would be much better off with a smart charger with individual control for each cell. There are quite a few different chargers that are recommended around here that you could choose from.
> 
> If finances are really tight, you could get away with that Energizer charger, but just don't be surprised when you don't get as many cycles out of your batteries!



Could you point me in the right direction for a decent charger? Will eneloops be better than the energizer nimh batteries that claim to hold charge to 80% for a year?


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## Power Me Up (Apr 6, 2014)

luisdent said:


> Could you point me in the right direction for a decent charger?



What are your priorities? Do you want something cheap that does a reasonable job, or are you willing to spend more for more features such as being able to test your batteries as well as charge them?



> Will eneloops be better than the energizer nimh batteries that claim to hold charge to 80% for a year?



I haven't done any testing on the Energizer batteries that are available these days, but they can't be worse than the previous Energizer 2500's! I'd recommend the Eneloops over the Energizers since the Eneloops are a known good cell that perform well and are very robust.


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## luisdent (Apr 6, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> What are your priorities? Do you want something cheap that does a reasonable job, or are you willing to spend more for more features such as being able to test your batteries as well as charge them?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't done any testing on the Energizer batteries that are available these days, but they can't be worse than the previous Energizer 2500's! I'd recommend the Eneloops over the Energizers since the Eneloops are a known good cell that perform well and are very robust.



Well, i'm looking for the longest, brightest runtimes for my aa lights while being a good value. So if eneloops give me that vs alkaline i don't care if the charger costs a lot, as long as it pays for itself. I can get 16 alkaline batteries for $14. That's roughly $1 a battery let's say. Eneloops are 8 for $20. So that's roughly $2 per battery let's say (for simple math). If a charger with the best features is $50 (guessing) then we're talking $6.50 per battery. That means i would only need to charge each battery 6.5 times for the value to be the same. To me that's a great deal. $100 charger would still be a decent deal if everything last long enough to get that benefit. I assume it would as that's only 100 charges or so...

if that's at all realistic?

i assume i'd get hundreds of charges before losing capacity or the charger failing. That brings the cost of each battery to a very low price...


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## Viking (Apr 6, 2014)

Hi luisdent 

For that kind of money you can get the very best in consumer chargers , along with good known quality batteries. Eneloop is the best known brand in that regard for the batteries.

For the charger you should give the Maha C9000 a look. 
It is an advanced and versatile consumer charger , with a lot of features but still simple to use. 
The main thing however is you buy yourself a smart charger with independent channels , and avoids ultra fast chargers. You can get them very simple with no features at all , and probably a lot cheaper than the advanced one I recommended to look into.


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## Power Me Up (Apr 6, 2014)

In agreement with Viking, I think you should look at the Maha/Powerex C9000 first - it's quite popular around here - it does a pretty good job and also allows you to test your batteries as well as charge them.

I'd also recommend going for Eneloops. If maximum run time per charge is your priority, you should consider the Eneloop XX line - they have 25% higher capacity than the standard Eneloops, however they tend to be significantly more expensive, are rated for less cycles and have higher self discharge. If you're looking at maximum total runtime over the life of the cells (especially per dollar spent), the regular Eneloops are generally a better choice since the latest generation is rated for more than 4 times as many cycles and they're less than half the price of the XX cells when they're on special - (in Australia at least - the XX cells don't tend to go on special very often)

In high drain devices, even the worst NiMH cells will perform better than the best alkalines, so going rechargeable definitely makes a lot of sense even before considering the longer term savings. You also don't have to worry about NiMH cells leaking like alkalines tend to.

From memory, the C9000 comes with a 3 year warranty, so unless you're using it very rarely, you'll be guaranteed that it will pay for itself in savings compared to using alkalines. As per the results of the test that I've published in this thread, even 1st generation Eneloops should give you at least 300 cycles even with heavy abuse. The Eneloop XX cells might only give you 150 or so cycles with heavy use, but I'd expect you to actually get more from them.


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## luisdent (Apr 6, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> In agreement with Viking, I think you should look at the Maha/Powerex C9000 first - it's quite popular around here - it does a pretty good job and also allows you to test your batteries as well as charge them.
> 
> I'd also recommend going for Eneloops. If maximum run time per charge is your priority, you should consider the Eneloop XX line - they have 25% higher capacity than the standard Eneloops, however they tend to be significantly more expensive, are rated for less cycles and have higher self discharge. If you're looking at maximum total runtime over the life of the cells (especially per dollar spent), the regular Eneloops are generally a better choice since the latest generation is rated for more than 4 times as many cycles and they're less than half the price of the XX cells when they're on special - (in Australia at least - the XX cells don't tend to go on special very often)
> 
> ...



Has anyone had problems with nimh leaking gas? My energizers have done that. I went to open my quark once, and the pressure had built up in the tube a lot. Not sure if that's anything to worry about?

That charger looks nice, but I'd prefer at least 8 batteries aa/aaa together doesn't hurt. I'll search around and see what's out there.


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## Etsu (Apr 6, 2014)

luisdent said:


> Has anyone had problems with nimh leaking gas? My energizers have done that. I went to open my quark once, and the pressure had built up in the tube a lot. Not sure if that's anything to worry about?



I've never noticed that myself, but since they do have vent holes, I guess it's possible. My most power-hungry AA Quark maxes out the battery current at about 2.5 amps. That shouldn't be enough to cause venting, though if you're using cheap cells perhaps it's the case. Are you sure it was vented battery gas, and not just pressure from heating within the tube due to warm batteries?


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## luisdent (Apr 6, 2014)

Etsu said:


> I've never noticed that myself, but since they do have vent holes, I guess it's possible. My most power-hungry AA Quark maxes out the battery current at about 2.5 amps. That shouldn't be enough to cause venting, though if you're using cheap cells perhaps it's the case. Are you sure it was vented battery gas, and not just pressure from heating within the tube due to warm batteries?



I'm not sure. I don't remember the exact symptoms, but the end cap button was bulging and when I would unscrew the back it would let out the gas or whatever and the button would go back to normal. I asked 4sevens, and they are the ones that said it was gas from the batteries.


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## Power Me Up (Apr 6, 2014)

luisdent said:


> Has anyone had problems with nimh leaking gas? My energizers have done that. I went to open my quark once, and the pressure had built up in the tube a lot. Not sure if that's anything to worry about?



NiMH cells can leak:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?223340-Gas-from-NIMH-venting-dangerous

The leaking gas is mostly hydrogen which isn't as dangerous as some other gases that can be leaked by other cells such as lithiums - the biggest risk would be an explosion if there was enough gas and it was mixed with air in the right proportions.

The loss of the gas will cause reduced capacity - how much will depend on how much gas was actually lost. A C9000 would be handy to work out what that cells capacity is now...



> That charger looks nice, but I'd prefer at least 8 batteries aa/aaa together doesn't hurt. I'll search around and see what's out there.



Well, you could get 2 of the C9000! ;-) Alternatively, you could look at the Maha C801D:
http://www.mahaenergy.com/mh-c801d/

Or the C800S:
http://www.mahaenergy.com/mh-c800s/

Although these chargers have discharge capabilities, they don't have a display to show you what the actual capacity was. Amongst my chargers, I've got a C808M which is a big brother to the C801D - it can also charge C's and D's - it was a bit more expensive and a LOT larger. I also had a C800S but I sold it because I was using the C9000s instead.


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## luisdent (Apr 6, 2014)

I'll probably grab the c9000. So what is the best way to deal with leakage? Just open your light tube now and then? I guess it's still better than alkaline's leaking in your light. Ugh.


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## Power Me Up (Apr 6, 2014)

luisdent said:


> I'll probably grab the c9000.



Sounds good - How often are you wanting to charge 8 cells at once? If it isn't all the time, it would be better and cheaper to just buy some spare cells - when a set is flat, swap them with cells that are already charged and just recharge the depleted cells on the C9000 without needing to rush.



> So what is the best way to deal with leakage? Just open your light tube now and then?



NiMH venting is quite rare, so I'd be trying to avoid it where possible in the first place. It may be that the cells that you're using don't like the high discharge rates that you're subjecting them to in that light. Perhaps relegate them to lighter duties and try Eneloops instead.

If you do get venting, I'd suggest opening the tail cap a little to allow the gas to escape slowly and make sure that you do it away from naked flames!



> I guess it's still better than alkaline's leaking in your light. Ugh.



Definitely - it happens much more rarely with NiMH and doesn't generally damage anything.


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## Mr Floppy (Apr 6, 2014)

Power Me Up said:


> I don't think I'm likely to follow the same test procedure and I won't be running the air conditioning for months at a time to keep the temperature constant



You need a beer fridge like me, although 120 days, the keg will get empty long before that is up so you will need to open it up at some point. 

120 days is still quite a long time, assuming that they test a number of cells from each batch they produce. So maybe they do accelerated tests after the initial batch?


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## Power Me Up (Apr 6, 2014)

Mr Floppy said:


> You need a beer fridge like me, although 120 days, the keg will get empty long before that is up so you will need to open it up at some point.



That would be a good idea if I had a fridge like that lying around. Unfortunately, I don't really have much use for one and I haven't really got anywhere to put it at the moment anyway!



> 120 days is still quite a long time, assuming that they test a number of cells from each batch they produce. So maybe they do accelerated tests after the initial batch?



I'm really not sure what they do. I'd assume that they'd do a few cycle tests on a selection of cells to check that they meet the minimum specified capacity. If they do cycle life testing on each batch, it probably is with accelerated tests - otherwise it'd be a lot of inventory sitting around waiting for the results and if a problem did occur, it might take several months to find out about it - meaning a lot of possibly unusable stock (or would need to be sold off as seconds)


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## rexet (Apr 26, 2014)

Hi all,

Sorry for this noob question but I recently bought a C9000 and 4th generation Eneloop (made by Panasonic) and I am still wondering if I should do a break-in or not. When I searched the web about it I only found old CPF topics from 2009 where everybody agree that new cells should get a break-in to get the most of them.

But what about now, 2014 new Eneloop generation? Do I still need to run a break-in or can I just use them right out of the blister?


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## Power Me Up (Apr 26, 2014)

Personally, I don't really think that there has ever been much of a need to do break-ins on Eneloops - I've only done it a handful of times - generally what I do is to discharge them first to see what their out of packet capacity is, then do a refresh and analyze (when I was using the C9000) to get their fully charged capacity and then put them into use.

With the UltraSmartCharger, I just set it to discharge, insert the cells to test and then press and hold the button for about 3 seconds - it then automatically does the above testing in a single step.


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## ChrisGarrett (Apr 26, 2014)

I break in all batteries on my C-9000. I don't know if it helps, or hinders, but that's what's suggested. I've also cycled some, 3 times in the past and that probably works well. I'm not a fan of taking 40+ hours to get batteries ready, but I do it.

Chris


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## Etsu (Apr 27, 2014)

I don't bother to do any break-ins. Sometimes, I use them straight out-of-the-box. If I want to make sure they're fully charged (they only come charged at most 75%) before using them, I'll pop them in the charger to top them off.

I figure that if I'm using them regularly (like in a flashlight or radio), then maybe their capacity will increase a bit the next few times I recharge them. Not a big deal if the capacity is a few percent less the first time.

If I'm using them only occasionally or very lightly (like in a TV remote control), then capacity isn't a concern anyway, since it might be a couple of years before I recharge them again.


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## rexet (Apr 27, 2014)

Thank you all for your opinions. This is funny how things changed over the years since now the trend seems not having the need to break-in new cells. I guess this is because the cell chemistry is more efficient now. I am just going to discharge them and then run a R&A with the Maha C9000 before using them.


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## Power Me Up (Apr 27, 2014)

Etsu said:


> If I want to make sure they're fully charged (they only come charged at most 75%) before using them, I'll pop them in the charger to top them off.



Since Rexet mentioned the latest generation Eneloops, I'll point out that the 75% factory charge only applies to generations 1 to 3. The 4th generation Eneloops that I've got came about 83% charged out of the packet.


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## rexet (Apr 27, 2014)

I don't know if these numbers are useful or not but I just discharged the first set of 4 brand new Eneloop BK-3MCCE and the C9000 gave me an number around 1450/1500mAh at the end (with discharge set to 500). Now they are in the R&A cycle and at the end of the fist charge they the numbers were around 1915mAh (except for one around 1820mAh). Now they are in the discharging cycle again...


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## kingwellenergy (May 19, 2014)

luisdent said:


> Could you point me in the right direction for a decent charger? Will eneloops be better than the energizer nimh batteries that claim to hold charge to 80% for a year?



Mark has been doing some serious cycle testing of his Eneloop cells. He put a brand new 1st generation Eneloop battery in one slot (not too many people have brand new 1st gen Eneloops still in the package, but Mark does) and a 4th generation Eneloop in the other. He then ran them through a lot of cycles! You can read more about the details of his experiment here. In the end you can definitely see the better performance of the newer cell. These Eneloops are advertised as being rated for 1000 cycles and 2100 cycles (so much of it is dependent on the conditions of the charging and discharging) so imagine what the same test would look like with cells from another brand rated for only 500 or 300 cycles. Do I feel a test coming on?


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## redtruck (May 22, 2014)

I hadn't noticed before, but Amazon seems to have the new Panasonic Eneloop and Eneloop Pro batteries and chargers for sale (some sold by Amazon), including new Advanced chargers that can charge individual cells. Might have to place an order. The last time I looked they still had the Sanyo 3rd gen stuff.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jun 20, 2014)

When I read this, I didn't believe that Eneloop batteries many years old could compete with brand new ones. So, I tested this yesterday and was shocked to see it's really true.

I put two Eneloop cells in a 2xAA Quark and ran it on max until it has stepped down to low due to depleted batteries (about an hour later). One cell is a brand-new 3rd generation Eneloop (1800x) that has been cycled a few times. The other cell is an old 1st generation cell (1000x) with a date code of June 2006, and has seen perhaps a couple of hundred cycles over the years.

I then took out the cells and immediately measured their resting voltage. I was expecting to see the 3rd gen cell still have a voltage above 1.2v, and the 1st gen cell close to 0v or perhaps even reverse-charged.

Instead, I was shocked to see both cells reading the same, right about 0.9v. After a couple of hours, their resting voltage both went back up to around 1.15v.

How can an 8 year old cell still have the same capacity as a brand new cell???


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## ChibiM (Jun 27, 2014)

Any new tests completed?


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## Power Me Up (Jun 28, 2014)

Not yet - I'm hoping to have some results to post up in the next week or so. (This won't be for Eneloops however)


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## ChibiM (Jul 1, 2014)

That's okay..I'm looking forward to any kind of batteries test from you.  

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk


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## ChibiM (Oct 3, 2014)

Any updates?


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## Power Me Up (Oct 3, 2014)

Besides the Ikea results I've already posted I've also got some more results that I need to create graphs for and to write up some commentary. Unfortunately, I've been busy with other things lately, so it has taken me a while to get to it. Now that you've prompted me, I'll try to get them done as soon as I can.

Link to the Ikea results:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?387711-Ikea-Ladda-(AA)-Accelerated-Cycle-Testing


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## ChibiM (Oct 4, 2014)

Thanks for the IKEA results.. not bad results.. not in all categories... but still probably better than old Nimhs from 10-15 years back. 

Just giving you another push to publish your latest results!!!
push push bump bump


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## Power Me Up (Oct 24, 2014)

ChibiM said:


> Any updates?



I've just posted some more results:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?391756-Eneloop-XX-Vs-Turnigy-2400-Cycle-Testing


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## Power Me Up (Nov 3, 2014)

I've just posted some more results comparing Japanese and Chinese made Eneloops:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nese-Vs-Chinese-Eneloop-Cycle-Testing-Results


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