# Fluke 15b and 17b?



## samgab (Jul 28, 2011)

To any owners of the Chinese Domestic Market Fluke Digital Multi Meters: The Fluke 15b and 17b...
How has your experience with it been?
I am considering getting one, it'll be imported from China.
From what I can find with Google searches, it is a *real* Fluke, but intended for the China domestic market.
That means it is unlikely to have any warranty cover outside of China.
However, it's a lot less expensive (I hesitate to use the word "cheap") than the Fluke models I can buy through official dealers here in NZ.

Anyone own either the 15b or 17b?
How is it? Does it seem to be of high build quality? Is it accurate?
I know it's not RMS.
I don't intend to do any AC current or high voltage testing, just small electronic devices, up to about 12 Volts. and no more than 10 Amps.

I have 3 cheap junk DMMs (they all give different results), and I really want to get a Fluke, but hesitate to pay the premiums the official dealers charge considering the extent of my use, so I thought getting one of these model Flukes might be a good balance between the two extremes?

Thoughts? Especially from anyone who actually OWNS and uses one of these two models, rather than someone just going on hearsay, FUD, and conjecture; cheers! :thumbsup:


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## Bat (Jul 29, 2011)

AFAIU, both are OEM made by UNI-TREND (UNI-T), one of the top DMM makers in China
http://www.uni-trend.com.cn/index.asp

http://translate.google.com/transla...cn/fluke/htmlDocument/category_544/index.html


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## HKJ (Jul 29, 2011)

samgab said:


> I don't intend to do any AC current or high voltage testing, just small electronic devices, up to about 12 Volts. and no more than 10 Amps.



A DMM is not really useful for high DC current measurements at low voltages, the voltage loss in the meter and probes are to high.

I can not say anything about how good this meter generally is, but I would not expect it to be better than any other meter at the same price.


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## Wrend (Jul 29, 2011)

Yeah, I'm kind of confused why you want a low capability and accuracy "Fluke" MM. As a reference for your other low capability and accuracy MMs?
:thinking:

My advice: If you want to get a high end Fluke MM (because the ones you have aren't good enough for your liking), just be done with it and get an 87V. (Wait for the undated model without the RF vulnerability. Should be out before too long.)


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## samgab (Jul 29, 2011)

Ta... That's encouraging that they're on the official Fluke China website as linked above and here: http://www.fluke.com.cn/fluke/htmlDocument/2010-12-16/detail_1252.html
I might go ahead. The exchange rate is looking really good for NZD at the moment, and it looks like it's reached a ceiling and started to go down again...


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## samgab (Jul 29, 2011)

I didn't say I want it as a reference for my other junk ones. I will throw away the cheapies, I just want one reasonably good one without spending silly money... and I'm interested in hearing the experiences of anyone who already owns either the 15b or the 17b.


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## EASTWOOD (Jul 29, 2011)

I can't give you any advice on the models you mentioned, but you say that you want a Fluke. Have you considered looking for a used higher-end model? You may be able to find one for a good deal. Just be sure that it has a recent (within the past year) calibration certificate.


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## samgab (Jul 29, 2011)

That's a pretty good idea Eastwood... I've kept an eye on our local equivalent of ebay (Trademe) but it seems to be a lifetime tool that people tend to keep once they get one... They don't come up very often. But if one came up like you described I'd jump on it.


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## samgab (Jul 29, 2011)

I would love to get something like an 87V, but the reality is, in NZD, an 87V is $1086, whereas a 17B is $108. Those are the actual dollar values today.
I just can't justify or afford spending that sort of money for the 87V.


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## EASTWOOD (Jul 29, 2011)

samgab said:


> That's a pretty good idea Eastwood... I've kept an eye on our local equivalent of ebay (Trademe) but it seems to be a lifetime tool that people tend to keep once they get one... They don't come up very often. But if one came up like you described I'd jump on it.



It is true that the good ones are hard to part with... but many electricians I know have more than one. Might be worth a little effort to seek out electricians in your area and ask if they have a Fluke they would want to sell. Just be mindful of the cal. cert. that I mentioned above- without it, you won't know if it's any better than the cheapies you're trying to replace.


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## EASTWOOD (Jul 29, 2011)

samgab said:


> I would love to get something like an 87V, but the reality is, in NZD, an 87V is $1086, whereas a 17B is $108. Those are the actual dollar values today.
> I just can't justify or afford spending that sort of money for the 87V.


 
Wow! $1086!! Is this from a local supplier? I just looked up the 87V at a local supplier near me and it's $384.00 USD
http://electronics.mcmelectronics.com/?N=&Ntt=FLUKE+87 

If the currency converter is accurate, that should be about $443.00 NZD. This makes international shipping charges look like loose change.

I'm not trying to sway you from the 15b or 17b, I'm just not familiar with them. If there is a way that you can get more meter for around the same price, you will never regret it.


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## samgab (Jul 29, 2011)

EASTWOOD said:


> Wow! $1086!! Is this from a local supplier? I just looked up the 87V at a local supplier near me and it's $384.00 USD
> http://electronics.mcmelectronics.com/?N=&Ntt=FLUKE+87
> 
> If the currency converter is accurate, that should be about $443.00 NZD. This makes international shipping charges look like loose change.
> ...


 
Yeah, the prices from the "official" Fluke NZ suppliers are ridiculously inflated.
Here is one of the few official suppliers in NZ:
http://nz.element14.com/fluke/87v/multimeter-87-87v-fluke-87v/dp/736349401
Now it says $944.98, but that is excluding Goods and Services Tax, which is another 15% on top of that, making a lovely total to buy it of NZD$1086.73! Ouch! 
I'm not in the trade, so no trade price.
Another official supplier only sells it with a kit, a set of leads and a pouch:
http://newzealand.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=0237160
NZD$1192, and again, that's excluding GST, so $1370.80!

And don't get me started on the Fluke 289!
http://nz.element14.com/fluke/289/multimeter-digital-fluke-289/dp/142269201
$1428.12 including GST!

Just wanted to show you that I'm not pulling those dollar values out of thin air.

So yes, importing from the states or otherwise would be the way to go!


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## EASTWOOD (Jul 29, 2011)

I never doubted the price you quoted, but it almost made me choke on my coffee. 

Still, it would be nice to hear feedback from anyone that does own the 15b or 17b. For all I know, it may be a decent meter and suit your needs. 

I would imagine that the price disparity would make it absurd for you to look for a used Fluke locally- if someone in the trades paid those prices, they would probably want more for their used meter than what you would pay for a new one imported.


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## samgab (Jul 29, 2011)

I appreciate the comments thus far.
After giving it some thought, I decided I will get a 17b after all.
I had a look at the PCB design:





And I'm happy enough that the componentry and design and build of it all looks pretty good to me, for the price point.
Ceramic HRC fuses for both A and mA - my cheapies have no fuse on the 10A side.
Looks like there's a PTC thermistor and 3 varistors for input overload protection.






Amps defaults to DC which I prefer.
And I haven't had a DMM with capacitance, frequency, or duty cycle tests before.

In a few weeks when it arrives I'll report back with my thoughts on it, in case anyone's interested.
I'm still interested to hear from any 17b owners out there, how you've found it.
It's no 289, but should do the trick.
I realise it'll not be much good for high DC current, but that's okay.
I use my DMM all the time, and this is a definite step up from what I have at present.

Edit: It's not true RMS, but I work with DC, and hardly ever AC, so no biggie.


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## HKJ (Jul 29, 2011)

You can see some comments about it on eevblog.com, there is a user review.

And one more.

Edit:
Looking at the PCB photo I wonder what the bridge rectifier is doing near the input terminals.


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## samgab (Jul 29, 2011)

HKJ said:


> You can see some comments about it on eevblog.com, there is a user review.
> 
> And one more.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for those. One of them has a nice high res photo of the PCB. Some of the components are different colours, but otherwise the same.
I hadn't noticed the bridge rectifier down there... I don't know why they would put it there?


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## HKJ (Jul 29, 2011)

samgab said:


> I hadn't noticed the bridge rectifier down there... I don't know why they would put it there?



I wonder about it, I can not think of any legal reason to put it there, but then I am not a DMM designer 

Note: As rectifier for current measurement is not a legal reason, it would make the voltage drop in the meter way to high for anything with low voltages.


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## samgab (Jul 31, 2011)

HKJ said:


> I wonder about it, I can not think of any legal reason to put it there, but then I am not a DMM designer
> 
> Note: As rectifier for current measurement is not a legal reason, it would make the voltage drop in the meter way to high for anything with low voltages.


 
For whatever reason they put it there, the 87 V has the same thing in a similar location.
Here is a side by side of 2 PCBs of Fluke 87 V's, left side is a rev 9 PCB, and on the right is a pre-release rev 11 PCB.


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## Wrend (Jul 31, 2011)

samgab said:


> I didn't say I want it as a reference for my other junk ones. I will throw away the cheapies, I just want one reasonably good one without spending silly money... and I'm interested in hearing the experiences of anyone who already owns either the 15b or the 17b.


 I'd at least keep one or more of the old ones around, provided they're at least somewhat consistent. It can be handy to measure different values or parts of a circuit at the same time.

You know you've got it bad when you start measuring multimeters with multimeters...


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## HKJ (Jul 31, 2011)

samgab said:


> For whatever reason they put it there, the 87 V has the same thing in a similar location.
> Here is a side by side of 2 PCBs of Fluke 87 V's, left side is a rev 9 PCB, and on the right is a pre-release rev 11 PCB.



Then there are no reason to worry about it, the 87V has a average voltage drop when measuring current (0.6 to 0.7 volt). When measuring flashlights just keep the current below 1/10 of full scale.


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## samgab (Jul 31, 2011)

HKJ said:


> Then there are no reason to worry about it, the 87V has a average voltage drop when measuring current (0.6 to 0.7 volt). When measuring flashlights just keep the current below 1/10 of full scale.


 
Thanks, yeah a sparky mate of mine has a Fluke AC/DC clamp meter, so I can use that for high current tests (Like the TK70  ).
I use DMM for more general electronics, car audio and security installations, testing batteries, etc. Not usually for high current applications.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 31, 2011)

EASTWOOD said:


> Wow! $1086!! Is this from a local supplier? I just looked up the 87V at a local supplier near me and it's $384.00 USD
> http://electronics.mcmelectronics.com/?N=&Ntt=FLUKE+87
> 
> If the currency converter is accurate, that should be about $443.00 NZD. This makes international shipping charges look like loose change.


 
That is not so bad! You should see our local Surefire pricing - an A2 is NZ$495 here and the one I bought from the CPF Marketplace (new) cost me NZ$150 landed.




samgab said:


> Anyone own either the 15b or 17b?


 
I have a 15b - I like it. Though it has less features than the 17b I didn't see that those extra features really were worth while for me. I didn't need more than voltage & amperage really and the 15b handles those well.
It seems to me that the Chinese made Fluke meters are likely to be a step down from the USA made ones, but a decent step up from the average cheap meter. I also like the use of AAA cells instead of a 9V battery - I hate those horribly expensive 9V batteries!

I haven't got the means to test the accuracy, I've been thinking about picking up one of those 5V reference voltage things - that would be a very worthwhile purchase.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 31, 2011)

Sorry - Duplicate post.


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## samgab (Jul 31, 2011)

KiwiMark said:


> That is not so bad! You should see our local Surefire pricing - an A2 is NZ$495 here and the one I bought from the CPF Marketplace (new) cost me NZ$150 landed.
> 
> NZ, sort your crazy prices out. They're still set like the exchange rate is .5
> 
> ...


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## EASTWOOD (Jul 31, 2011)

It appears that the 17b might be a good hobby meter. I feel that you can tell quite a bit about the quality of most electronics based on the quality of the solder job and the utilized components (but not always).


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## brighthead (Oct 7, 2011)

I have the Fluke 17B and it is a good meter as far as I can tell, and it feels solid.

Ordering from China (Dealextreme) should be OK. It comes with a manual which has English and comes supplied with a thermocouple.

Just keep in mind that the accuracy is rated less than the higher-end Fluke meters (compare it with an 87). If you are OK with that I would say go for it and enjoy a good quality relatively cheap multimeter 

I would still buy Fluke above so many no-namers at this price range. Another manufacturer I might check out is Sanwa, from Japan. I have just discovered their products recently but they seem less available at retail.
http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/


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## samgab (Oct 7, 2011)

Yes, I should update. After confirming that it is a real Fluke and not a knock-off; I ordered - and subsequently received and have been using for a couple of months now - the Fluke 17B. 
I'm _extremely_ happy with it. It has a very good quality robust feel to it, a solid mass. It has good quality, sharp probes with good long leads of quality-feeling cable. Very different from the cheapies I've previously owned. And it has reasonable tolerances of accuracy... easily sufficient for my use. The temperature function has come in handy too. The continuity function is nice and fast.
I like that it uses a pair of AA cells. The display is simple, sharp, clear, and easy to read.
The mode dial switch has a good positive feel to it, not overly stiff, but clicks securely into the chosen position. You can turn the dial with one hand when the DMM is resting on a bench without the DMM rotating on the bench surface.
Having owned quite a few <$100 DMMs in my time, I would have to say, that if I was in the market for a DMM, and had the requirement that it be <$100, this is the one I would get again. 
Highly recommended, for the price, and for the POU of a home hobbyist.


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## brighthead (Oct 7, 2011)

Nice update 
I forgot to mention that one of the MAIN reasons that added to my lust for this meter was the AA batteries it uses. I really dislike products with 9V batteries which aren't that common to find rechargeable and are relatively expensive when buying disposables (people still do this?)

Fluke seems to be slowly introducing AA into its line-up but there are still many models selling with 9V.


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## samgab (Oct 27, 2011)

Here's something interesting:
I just received a DMMCHECK precision 5.000V voltage reference in the mail today.
I tested the Entry level Fluke 17B versus one of the old cheapies I had lying around. 
Here are the results:








So the cheap junkie one is more accurate (At 5 V) than the Fluke that I have been relying on!
Now I want to get a "PentaRef" so I can check the readings at different scales of DC Voltage.


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## samgab (Oct 29, 2011)

Well, it's 4am, I'm tired, and I've had several Bourbon's, but I'm pretty chuffed with myself too.
I took the Fluke apart and using a great deal of care, a bit of logic, and trial and error, I adjusted the trim pots till every measurable test exactly complied with my freshly calibrated precision DMMCheck!
It feels great to connect to a 5.000V source and see 5.00 on the display, or connect to a 1.0000 mA source and see 1.0 mA or 1000 μA. Good times.
Pix or it didn't happen:


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## etherealshade (Oct 29, 2011)

EDIT: I realised just after posting that I had my units incorrect and that the reference is more accurate than the meters can display. I still feel like I would need multiple references and/or meters to confirm an accurate calibration though.

-----

I'd be interested to see if your Fluke and cheap meter now agree about other voltage readings. Looking up the DMMCheck unit, it specifies up to a .01% error at 5v as being acceptable. This means technically it would've been within spec if the Fluke was dead on. I'm not suggesting that the Fluke was right and the cheap meter was wrong, but it is possible.

I had considered getting a reference to check my own meter, but now I'm not sure I would feel satisfied without having multiple references and meters to cross reference with. That said, my meter's calibration cert expired about 4 years ago, so I really ought to send it off for a new one....


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## samgab (Oct 29, 2011)

etherealshade said:


> EDIT: I realised just after posting that I had my units incorrect and that the reference is more accurate than the meters can display. I still feel like I would need multiple references and/or meters to confirm an accurate calibration though.
> 
> -----
> 
> ...


I trust the DMM Check, the guy has a properly calibrated power source that he uses, and he personally puts the time into the individual devices to get them correct, they aren't mass produced. It's pretty affordable, considering that.


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## samgab (Nov 1, 2011)

In the Months since I first posted this and got the 17B, the prices of Fluke products through official channels in New Zealand have now dropped to levels that won't make people choke on their coffee and die of heart complications. Now you just spit the coffee out in horror when you hear the Fluke prices, which is a big improvement. Add to that I got a pretty reasonable price from the salesman at the local Fluke dealer, and I just bit the bullet and bought a new 87-V... I'm hoping it will be the new Rev. 11 PCB with the GSM fix... Will find out tomorrow I guess.
Anyway, as I'm intending to transfer over to the electrical engineering field in the early part of next year, I figured it wouldn't be crazy to get a very good DMM.
I'll report back on how the 87-V compares in daily use to the 17B. Sort of like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lexus LFA I suppose.


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## samgab (Nov 1, 2011)

The 87V fresh out of box (presumably Fluke USA properly cal them prior to shipping) shows my reference Voltage source to be accurate. 
And the adjusted 17B is still accurate.






The test leads that came with it are the new TL175 type. Veery nice! The silicon leads are fantastic!





It came with the Rev.10 PCB, which doesn't incorporate the GSM fix. I tested with a phone on a GSM (3G off) call, and it does have the GSM problem. But that's okay... I'm always on 3G. I can't perceive of any occasion where I'd have the cellphone pressed up against the left side of the meter whilst on a call, and on GSM, whilst simultaneously trying to take a reading...
And if that DID happen, I know about the problem, so I'd just move the phone away a couple of inches.  J/K, it's a ridiculous scenario.


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## clintb (Nov 3, 2011)

samgab said:


> It came with the Rev.10 PCB, which doesn't incorporate the GSM fix. I tested with a phone on a GSM (3G off) call, and it does have the GSM problem. But that's okay... I'm always on 3G. I can't perceive of any occasion where I'd have the cellphone pressed up against the left side of the meter whilst on a call, and on GSM, whilst simultaneously trying to take a reading...
> And if that DID happen, I know about the problem, so I'd just move the phone away a couple of inches.  J/K, it's a ridiculous scenario.


You do realize that GSM and 3G are for two totally separate things, right? GSM is what your phone uses for voice and traditional SMS/text messages, whereas 3G is for data. Depending on your phone, unless you turn on airplane mode/disable wireless, GSM is always on.

Since you're not in the US, I don't know if the carrier you're on has some VoIP going on, in which case I apologize.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 3, 2011)

clintb said:


> You do realize that GSM and 3G are for two totally separate things, right? GSM is what your phone uses for voice and traditional SMS/text messages, whereas 3G is for data. Depending on your phone, unless you turn on airplane mode/disable wireless, GSM is always on.


I'm not quite sure about that. My iPhone never seems to produce the GSM chirpy interference on electronics when it is in 3G mode. There seem to be layers of protocols and when it has a 3G connection it does all communication over that link. This is sort of logical as it would save battery power to not have two systems powered up at the same time.


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## samgab (Nov 3, 2011)

clintb said:


> You do realize that GSM and 3G are for two totally separate things, right? GSM is what your phone uses for voice and traditional SMS/text messages, whereas 3G is for data. Depending on your phone, unless you turn on airplane mode/disable wireless, GSM is always on.
> 
> Since you're not in the US, I don't know if the carrier you're on has some VoIP going on, in which case I apologize.



You're quite wrong. 3G is used for data and phone calls and text: all wireless communication when 3G is activated (except WiFi, radio, and GPS which are of course separate). The term GSM is commonly used to describe 2G services and is also data (GPRS and EDGE) and voice and texts, when 3G is not active. You can turn 3G off using the option in pretty much any 3G capable phone, including the iPhone 4 which I use, however if 3G is on, and there is sufficient 3G signal strength, GSM will not be used. As Mr Happy said, that is why you will hear the interference in local audio devices when 3G is off when you are texting, on the phone, or web browsing/checking emails, but when 3G is being used you won't hear the interference for any of those things, because the 3G network is being used for all of them (if there is no wifi for the data).
On my iPhone 4, if I have 3G turned on and make a voice phone call (not VOIP, 3G), there is no interference affecting either the 87V or nearby speakers.
If I turn 3G off and make the same voice phone call, interference does affect the 87V, and the bipping noise comes through all the nearby speakers... 
But this thread is about the multimeters, not cellphone technology.


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## cfav (Jan 2, 2012)

samgab said:


> It came with the Rev.10 PCB, which doesn't incorporate the GSM fix. I tested with a phone on a GSM (3G off) call, and it does have the GSM problem. But that's okay... I'm always on 3G. I can't perceive of any occasion where I'd have the cellphone pressed up against the left side of the meter whilst on a call, and on GSM, whilst simultaneously trying to take a reading...
> And if that DID happen, I know about the problem, so I'd just move the phone away a couple of inches.  J/K, it's a ridiculous scenario.



Could you show the back of your multimeter (Fluke 87V PCB REV 010) because REV 011 has other inscriptions on the back. It would be easier to recognize when you are buying versions of the multimeter. As an example that the multimeter on the left picture is the REV 009 on the right is the 011.


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## samgab (Jan 2, 2012)

cfav said:


> Could you show the back of your multimeter (Fluke 87V PCB REV 010) because REV 011 has other inscriptions on the back. It would be easier to recognize when you are buying versions of the multimeter. As an example that the multimeter on the left picture is the REV 009 on the right is the 011.


 This is the back of my Rev. 10 model:




So it's the same etchings as the Rev. 11.
 Also, the Rev. 10 version I got came with the new and wonderful TL175 leads:




They're fantastic. The silicone cables are really good.


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## samgab (Oct 19, 2012)

HKJ said:


> ...
> Looking at the PCB photo I wonder what the bridge rectifier is doing near the input terminals.



I remembered you asking this question when I watched this youtube video. 
Dave Jones explains the reason why DMM's have that bridge rectifier in that location:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhnGp5vh60&feature=g-u-u


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## HKJ (Oct 20, 2012)

samgab said:


> I remembered you asking this question when I watched this youtube video.
> Dave Jones explains the reason why DMM's have that bridge rectifier in that location:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhnGp5vh60&feature=g-u-u



Thanks, the schematic makes it obvious.


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