# Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..



## Crenshaw

*LAST UPDATED 8 MAY 2014*

we all have cells lying around that are half dead, because they dont run our lights at nice powerful outputs anymore...so what are the lights that run depleted cells well on the various battery form factors? 
i was thiking of making this a master listing thread for those...and make them commercially available lights...yes i know the milky candle exists, but im wondering whats on the commercial market too...

EDIT: 8 May 2014, Better late than never? 

*Light**Battery Type**Battery Configuration**Contibutor*PALight Range9 volt1omega man"Windeal" From EbayAA1Gregozedobe4sevens Quark Mini AAAA1Flying_TurtleDorcy 2AAAA2Lynx_ArcGerber Recon AAAA1Harry999Maratac AAAA1red02Nitecore D11.2AA1Flying_TurtlePrinceton Tec AttitudeAA4Jake.tThruNite T10AA1PCCGerber ReconAA1angelofwarOpalec NewBeam for MiniMagAA2SinjzUK 4 eLedAA4Led ThriftCMG InfinityAA1greenLEDFenix L2D-CEAA2ValhallaPrimeGerber TrioAA2AFAustinInova X1 gen2AA1jumpstatPeak Logan 17500 QTCAA/AAA/CR123A1archimedesBB Nexgen from Sandwich ShoppeAA/CR123A2AA/1 CR123ALowLumenQuark Low Voltage HeadAA/CR123A1 (with adaptor)reppansCoast led lenser Mini Tac TT7830CPAAA1Light SabreiTP C8AAA1/2shark_zaKaiDomain "Buckle" AAA lightAAA1swxb12Olight/iTp i3(AAA)AAA1HighlanderNorth, JohnnyLunarTask Force 1AAAAA1Flying Turtle4Sevens Preon 1AAA1PCCDorcy 1 Led 1 AAAAAA1p1fiendFenix LD10AAA1wjvRayovac penlightAAA1RCMArc AAAAAA1greenLEDFenix E0AAA1-Fenix E01AAA1-Peak MatterhornAAA1AFAustinJetbeam BC10CR123A1think2xJetbeam BC10CR123A1think2xMalkoff M60CR123AMultipleSwedpatMcLuxIII-PDCR123A1KenAndersonMcLuxIII-Ti-PDCR123A1KenAndersonPierce M10CR123A1PlayboyjoeshmoeSolarforce LV P60CR123A1shao.fu.tzerSportac P60CR123AMulitplecland72Surefire A2CR123A2jh333233Surefire L1 (5th Gen)CR123A1Kestrel, angelofwarSurefire T1ACR123A1jh333233Surefire A2L-RDCR123A1 (with adaptor)think2xThrunite Neutron 1CCR123A1shao.fu.tzerThrunite XM-L D26CR123A1JohnnyLunarInova X5CR123A2-Inova X5 (red)CR123A1marduke4sevens Quark MiNi 123CR123A1fisk-kingArc Ls (Original Model)CR123A1greenLEDDorcy 1 watt CR123CR123A1TMoritaHDS on lowest settingCR123A1Thermal GuyInova 24/7CR123A1Joe TalmadgeLightflux LF3XTCR123A1Flying_TurtleNitecore ExtremeCR123A1VF1Jskull1Peak McKinleyCR123A1AFAustinRa Clicky/Ra TwistyCR123A1270winchesterSmith & Wesson 9X GalaxyCR123A2angelofwarSurefire L1CR123A1Flying_TurtleTekna Splash-Lite LEDCR123A1louroyZebralight H30CR123A1PlayboyjoeshmoeElektrolumens LightsDMulitplesubumbraEveready 1D LEDD1/2Lynx_ArcMJLedDMulitpleteboreNite Ize PR Bulb Led UpgradeDMulitplemardukeMAGled 2 cellMultiple-PCCP60 5mm LED Drop-inMultiple-[email protected]Streamlight Twin TaskMultiple-PlayboyJoeShmoePEAK LED SOLUTIONS ShastaN1RAGE CAGE
*

Running "dead" CR123A in this configuration has been known to cause explosions (see disclaimer) It is highly NOT reccomended*
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=78843
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/120888&pp=30


*Homemade/Cpfer Made/Modified*
These are not necesarily always available, and some are DIY 

abvidledUK's home made 9V
MilkyCandle
Surefire E-Series MicroTower (E-MT) F1 LED drop-in, Thanks Bullzeyebill
Build Yer Own Vampire
The Sandwich Shoppe's Mad Max drivers


please post additional battery types if need be,
and ill update this post as more posts come in..

im guessing that any light here will probably be also suitable as a "long run time" light...

Crenshaw

*Disclaimer*
There is a risk involved in running lithium cells totally dry in a light, please search "exploding batteries" *BEFORE* trying this, and if you do try, you do so at your own risk...


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## Marduke

*Re: Battery Vampires*

Inova X5 for 1xCR123 also (red version)
NiteIze PR base for D's


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## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires*

I use 2 "dead" AA's for my Smith & Wesson Galaxy (Red LEDS)
1 "dead" AA on my Gerber Recon
And 2 "dead" cr123's to run the 9 white LEDs on another S & W Galaxy (the 9 LED/xenon model)


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## Sub_Umbra

*Re: Battery Vampires*

Running 2xCR123 cells dry in a light is probably not a good idea...

There has been quite a bit written about this.


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## p1fiend

*Re: Battery Vampires*

My Dorcy 1xAAA 1-LED light (from Walmart) has been trucking along on an exhausted AAA alkaline that won't light up the big boys like LODs or A1s. Still puts out a very useable amount of light too.


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## p1fiend

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Sub_Umbra said:


> Running 2xCR123 cells dry in a light is probably not a good idea...
> 
> There has been quite a bit written about this.


 
True, good point to remind us all of. 

However the X5 seems to be quite gentle on exhausted 123 cells.


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## Sinjz

*Re: Battery Vampires*

How about an Opalec for the AA's in any combination from 2 to 6 cells? 

I have one on a two cell MiniMag with multiple +1AA extensions.


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## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires*

@subumbra
I suppose you mean the the exploding cell effect? true... but still, its rare....this listing will hence forth be at owner's risk...

Crenshaw


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## Sinjz

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Sub_Umbra said:


> Running 2xCR123 cells dry in a light is probably not a good idea...
> 
> There has been quite a bit written about this.



I thought, unlike the multi-cell lights that use circuits to draw high current, that the Inova X5 was safe with two cells because it just uses a resistor and doesn't draw more than what the battery want to push out. :thinking: is that wrong?


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## Sub_Umbra

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Crenshaw said:


> @subumbra
> I suppose you mean the the exploding cell effect? true... but still, its rare....this listing will hence forth be at owner's risk...
> 
> Crenshaw


Cool -- as long as you don't mind the occasional light *blowing up in your pocket* and possibly bursting into flames -- hey, I've got no problem with that!.

But then, for those who may have an aversion to explosions happening in their pockets, they would be well advised to avoid these events you discribe as *rare.* It may just be that you are able to describe these events as _rare_ because the majority of users _are well informed enough_ to not draw pairs of CR123 cells down to the point where one of the cells causes the other to charge in reverse polarity...and then make a mess.

Sooo...I'm just trying to say that when you put the 2xCR123 scenario into your original post it was something that should be removed because *it has been shown to present a well known hazardous condition.*

If you insist on asserting that this *well known danger* is, in your words, "rare", perhaps it would make more sense to address this issue *in a thread of it's own* where the safety issues could be more clearly addressed without muddying the broader issues of this thread.


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## Sub_Umbra

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Sinjz said:


> I thought, unlike the multi-cell lights that use circuits to draw high current, that the Inova X5 was safe with two cells because it just uses a resistor and doesn't draw more than what the battery want to push out. :thinking: is that wrong?


This situation is muddied by the fact that the INOVA X5 *red* is often recommended as a great light to draw the last out of a 123 cell. While this is true, it is very important to remember that the INOVA X5 with a red LED *only uses one cr123 cell.* 

The INOVA X5 Red *is not a 2xcr123 light.*


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## scottaw

*Re: Battery Vampires*

Somebody jacked my red X5 from my house...think it was my roommate's drunk friends....grrr have to hunt down a new one....


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## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Sub_Umbra said:


> Cool -- as long as you don't mind the occasional light *blowing up in your pocket* and possibly bursting into flames -- hey, I've got no problem with that!.
> 
> But then, for those who may have an aversion to explosions happening in their pockets, they would be well advised to avoid these events you discribe as *rare.* It may just be that you are able to describe these events as _rare_ because the majority of users _are well informed enough_ to not draw pairs of CR123 cells down to the point where one of the cells causes the other to charge in reverse polarity...and then make a mess.
> 
> Sooo...I'm just trying to say that when you put the 2xCR123 scenario into your original post it was something that should be removed because *it has been shown to present a well known hazardous condition.*
> 
> If you insist on asserting that this *well known danger* is, in your words, "rare", perhaps it would make more sense to address this issue *in a thread of it's own* where the safety issues could be more clearly addressed without muddying the broader issues of this thread.


 
the issue has already been adressed in many threads, so i wont start a new one, i am here just listing possibilities, and in fact, putting 2xCR123A and adding a warning behind it, which i will do, may do better then to not at all, being that at least if a newer flashaholic reads this thread wondering what to do with thier "dead" batteries, they will know what can and *should* be done, and what can,but *should not* be done.Thanks for the heads up subumbra..:thumbsup:

that being said, Im sure you have used CR123A batteries that do not work in Incans in your LED lights before ?
and the danger was identified as using 2 _different_ CR123A batteries. Meaning, they were from different lights, and therefore in different states of discharge, _that was the danger. _Two batteries from the same light will have had the same dicharge. If that were not the case, then we wouldnt bee able to use any kind of 2XCR123A lights even with new batteries, because of the risk that they start running low, they might explode..

Crenshaw


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## paulr

*Re: Battery Vampires*

Many measurements have shown that 2x123 lights often end up with their cells in unequal states of discharge, for reasons nobody has ever figured out clearly, despite repeated experimental confirmation. So, don't count on them being equal. 

Really, if you're making enough depleted cells for this kind of recovery to be worthwhile, maybe you should look into using rechargeables more of the time.

That said, I did some tests a while back that found the Arc AAA could keep getting light out of an almost dead AAA cell. Even after it gave out, you could rest the cell for a while and then run it some more.


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## TMorita

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Vampires don't feed on dead animals. They feed on live ones. 

You haven't watched enough horror movies!!!

For 1xCR123 I would add the Dorcy 1 watt CR123. It will emit a fair amount of light on batteries that are completely dead in my other lights.

Toshi


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## ajairlines

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I run my used CR123 cells down in my Lithium Glo-Toobs. One CR123 per Glo-Toob...


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## gottawearshades

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Great question.

I have a pile of partly-used primary 123As that I have been feeding to a SF E1L cree.

I've been meaning to ask folks what's a good, cheap, well-regulated, safe light to do this with, as my E1L seems destined for more important missions.

Cheers


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## FrogmanM

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



ajairlines said:


> I run my used CR123 cells down in my Lithium Glo-Toobs. One CR123 per Glo-Toob...


 
Same here:wave: the lil guy is starting to grow on me!

Mayo


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## Sub_Umbra

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Crenshaw said:


> the issue has already been adressed in many threads, so i wont start a new one, i am here just listing possibilities, and in fact, putting 2xCR123A and adding a warning behind it, which i will do, may do better then to not at all, being that at least if a newer flashaholic reads this thread wondering what to do with thier "dead" batteries, they will know what can and *should* be done, and what can,but *should not* be done.Thanks for the heads up subumbra..:thumbsup:
> 
> that being said, *Im sure you have used CR123A batteries that do not work in Incans in your LED lights before ?*
> and the danger was identified as using 2 _different_ CR123A batteries. Meaning, they were from different lights, and therefore in different states of discharge, _that was the danger. _Two batteries from the same light will have had the same dicharge. If that were not the case, then we wouldnt bee able to use any kind of 2XCR123A lights even with new batteries, because of the risk that they start running low, they might explode..
> 
> Crenshaw



Emphasis mine.

No, I haven't. My unstated actions are completely unknown to you. Kindly leave me out of your rationalizations.


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## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The best single AA drainer I have is a 1 watt Task Force from Lowe's. I'm amazed how long it will continue to function, and fire back up after turning off even when the battery is almost dead. I also use it with a spacer to drain AAA batteries.

Geoff


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## Spypro

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

My AA battery vampire is a North49 2 x AA with six 5mm LED. I made a little mod to put only one battery in it when I want to drain only one cell.


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## Omega Man

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

*AA- CMG/Gerber Infinity or Infinity Ultra*. LED color doesn't matter too much, my Ultra white gets fed used Discman cells and works well on them to read for a week or 2.
*AA-SMJLED or Wah Wang LED*(both the bi-pin bare LEDs) in a host of your choice. I have one in a Mini Mag and one in a Ray-O-Vac Swivel Light. The output is dim but runs for weeks.
*CR123- Inova 24/7
9v- Pak Lites, Sea Pals, Safe Lights,* and all their incarnations. My Sea Pal is still running it's "Find Me" light after over 2 years constant on.
The older Luxeon and 5mm LED lights are going to be pretty much your best or only bet with draining cells now.


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## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Oh, and 1Xcr123's get drained on my 24/7's as well...


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## Tempest UK

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Another vote for a red Inova X5 for draining CR123a. It just keeps on going  Excellent light to keep by the bedside.

Regards,
Tempest


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## greenLED

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

AA: CMG Task Light
AAA: ArcAAA
123: Inova X5, ArcLS, or SF L1 (Lux)


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have a Streamlite Twin Task 1L that has the tail drilled and tapped and a Kroll in it. The Incandescent beam ain't worth spit no matter WHAT shape the battery is in. But the 3 LEDs work pretty good down to LOW battery.


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## Sub_Umbra

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The ELEKTRO LUMENS Blaster 1-D (one MicroPuck) will drain D cells that won't light anything else. It'll run for a week straight on a new D cell.


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## RoyJ

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Here's what we should all do - use nothing but 6D Mags.

This way, when the battery drops to 1.25V, switch to a 5cell bulb. When the battery goes down to 1V, switch to a 4cell bulb. 3cell bulb @ 0.75V, 2cell bulbs @ 0.5V, and finally, solitair bulb at 0.25V.

Who says you can't have perfect regulation on a stock Incan Mag?


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## LED_Thrift

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Underwater Kinetics 4 AA eLED for used AA cells. 
PAL Light Safe Light for 9v cells. 

One problem I've been running into with using worn down AA cells is that they leak more often. I need a light that is easy to clean out after a leak.


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## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I've been having good luck running a CR123 below 1.65 volts with my Surefire E-Series MicroTower (E-MT) F1 LED drop in. The F1 uses a modified voltage regulated circuit.

Bill


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## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I got my ARC a few days ago, and it runs TOO well on speant batteries... i have a whole bag full of AAAs that i used to power higher draw stuff such as speakers, Jetbeam-U, etc,and the ARC refuses to die so that i can use up that bag and finally put in a Lithium!...

Crenshaw


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## Gimpy00Wang

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Don't forget about the Milky candles. They can run on 1-2 123's and seem to keep going and going and going. I hang on to partially/"completely" depleated cells just in case there's an extended power outage. I have around 20 exhausted 123's that are just begging for the power to go out. When all my other lights are no longer pumping out the lumens at least I can snuggle up to my trusty Milky candle. 

- Chris


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## Big_Ed

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The one thing I worry about when trying to drain a cell all the way down is it might leak (alkalines, that is). 

I'd like to have a light fixture made of a few LED's that would have a completely separate battery holder or holders for various sizes of batteries. (Separate so if a battery leaks, it would only get on the holder.) The batteries would be put in parrallel, so different voltages wouldn't affect it. Put some sort of a boost circuit in it, and it would make a good light to put over the toilet for midnight trips to the bathroom.

Does such a light fixture/setup exist?


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## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Gimpy00Wang said:


> Don't forget about the Milky candles. They can run on 1-2 123's and seem to keep going and going and going. I hang on to partially/"completely" depleated cells just in case there's an extended power outage. I have around 20 exhausted 123's that are just begging for the power to go out. When all my other lights are no longer pumping out the lumens at least I can snuggle up to my trusty Milky candle.
> 
> - Chris


Yes, but i was going for stock, un-modified stuff, commercial kind of thing, maybe i should have a category for specifically custom built stuff...hmmm

Big_ed, i would actually like to make one too, i started with this (scroll down)
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2314123#post2314123

looking to improve it, but im trying to find a circuit that will only push at 100ish mah cos i originally inteded it for a long running light, hence the D batteries
Crenshaw


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## Sub_Umbra

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Big_Ed said:


> The one thing I worry about when trying to drain a cell all the way down is it might leak (alkalines, that is)...


I feel pretty safe running down weak alkys in _single cell_ lights. While a leak is always possible at least there is no chance of *reversing polarity* in a one cell light -- which _in my reality map_ would seem to greatly decrease the probability of an alkaline leaking.

EDIT: That reminds me of another light that's good for draining alkys: the Pak-Lite. We've always run them on old pulled smoke alarm batteries and batteries that have already powered a wireless body mic for a show and can't be trusted for another go. (I don't think I've *ever* run a Pak-Lite on a new battery -- I pull the ones they come with for a six month tour of smoke alarm duty.) There used to be a great testimonial letter on the Pak-Lite site by a guy from South America who's power went out a lot who stated that he got 125 hours in his Pak-Lite _from each used smoke alarm battery_ (with an average use of 3-4 hours at a time). I believe him.

Anyway, in the powerless six week aftermath of Katrina in New Orleans we ran my Original Pak-Lite (in tourquois) so much that we actually used up about four used 9v coppertops. The Pak-Lites must have drawn them down pretty far because half of them terminated with a *POP,* causing the individual AAAA cells within to extend various lengths out through the cardboard bottoms of the batteries. In all cases none of the AAAA cells completely left the 9v battery case. There was also no leakage -- no mess -- although we did throw them away _right away_ and didn't keep them around to observe.


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## Toohotruk

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Sub_Umbra said:


> I feel pretty safe running down weak alkys in _single cell_ lights. While a leak is always possible at least there is no chance of *reversing polarity* on a one cell -- which _in my reality map_ would seem to greatly decrease the probability of an alkaline leaking.



I've had them leak in single cell situations too, in fact, I've seen them leak just sitting on a dresser all by themselves.

Still probably less likely than in multiple cell devices though.


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## pbs357

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Cool thread!

What other 1x23 lights are out there? I have a pile of cells that my x5 will light on, but I'd like a smaller version (3mm or 5mm LED) style light, in fear of the dreaded 2x123 venting situation  :sick2:


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## swxb12

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

nm


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## Sub_Umbra

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Toohotruk said:


> I've had them leak in single cell situations too, in fact, I've seen them leak just sitting on a dresser all by themselves...


Yes. With thinner and thinner separators and skins any damage incurred in transit or storage can cause them to leak -- even though there may be no visible damage. If a case or whole pallet of new cells is dropped before it gets to the user they may leak.

I recall a post by a CPFer who worked in a retail store and reported seeing *new cells leaking on display in their blister-packs.*

This has caused me to look at rechargeables slightly differently. With alkalines I know *nothing* about them when I open a new pack. With rechargeables that I've used myself and charged a few times I'm quite a bit more confident that there is no hidden damage within the cell waiting to fail in a messy way out of nowhere..


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## Toohotruk

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I'm gradually heading in the direction of rechargeables. Now that NiMHs have evolved into great performers and Lithium-ion (I have yet to try some of those) has become more user-friendly, there's less and less reason to stick with leaky alkalines.


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## abvidledUK

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

After my Safelights have nearly depleted the 9v batteries, before I rip them open for the (Duracell) connectors to make these, I run down the 9v's using these !!

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/136081


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## ValhallaPrime

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Another vote for the X5, in either flavor. I've run 123's that wouldn't light my E2d in our X5 white for weeks and weeks of evening half-hour walks. Talk about a slow vampire.

For AA's, I've been using my L2d-ce recently, but they also seem to keep going and going...I have had ONE set start leaking though, and actually was sitting at my computer, and noticed the tailcap rubber starting to balloon out over the course of a few minutes. It had a pair of alkalines that were quite old in it though...pre-emptively replaced the batts in our CO detector in the house, they were over 3 years old, and it was starting to chirp. Those bears lit the L2D though....even when they started leaking.


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## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

added a cpf built, home modified, etc section..

Crenshaw


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## IcantC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The Fenix E0 Dart! See my ongoing test here
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/186657


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## Joe Talmadge

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

123A: Inova 24/7

I put some "dead" 123As that were no longer able to light up my Surefire M4, into my two Inova 24/7s ... the 24/7s are running as if on new batteries, they are perfectly happy. Unless the problem wasn't the batteries but something wrong with my M4 or M4's bulb (I've not reloaded it to see), the 24/7s run on depleted batteries just fine.


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## LouRoy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The Tekna Splash-Lite LED is a great battery drainer for a single CR123 cell.


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## yaesumofo

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The milky candle will take the batteries which you think are dead and run on them for a week. I have too many dead Cr123 a to even feed this. I could keep in on 24/7/365 easily all on dead battereis. I think it will work on 1.5 volt cells too.
Anyway if you are talking about completly draining a 123 cell then this is the ultimate device to do it.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/76293
Yaesumofo


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## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I use one of my hds lights to kill my old cells. Just put it on one of the lowest setting witch is what i use any ways and its all good.


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## AFAustin

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

*1xCR123A: Peak McKinley*. In a recent informal runtime test, my McKinley 1 LED model was still going strong at 7 hrs. 45 min. on an RCR123A when I ended the test. Seemed to maintain fairly flat output as well. I imagine on 1 primary CR123A, its times would be impressive, but I'm too cheap to sacrifice a cell to find out.  Provides a decent amount of light on a well-spent primary. Beam, however, is much prettier on the 7 LED McKinley, mentioned below.

My 7 LED (old style) HP model is another runtime champ. In the same test, its RCR123A's protection circuit kicked in at 7 hrs. 45 min., and it maintained good regulation up to that point. Just tried a well-spent primary cell in it, and it put out a nice dim circle of light, similar to the Matterhorn on a spent alkie, referenced below.

*1xAAA: Peak Matterhorn*. On a semi-spent alkie, puts out a smooth even large spot, fairly dim and perfect for reading in bed. Mine is a 3 LED (old style) HP, so I'm sure a 1 LED model would be even better.

*2xAA: Gerber Trio*. Once described as a (CMG Infinity) "Ultra on steroids", this nicely built light puts out a very wide, even flood beam, with a bluish tint. It's decently bright for ~ 6 hrs. on 2 AA eneloops, then dims and maintains a very long tail. On well used alkies, it still puts out useable light, and I imagine for a very long time.


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## Lobo

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



ValhallaPrime said:


> For AA's, I've been using my L2d-ce recently, but they also seem to keep going and going...I have had ONE set start leaking though, and actually was sitting at my computer, and noticed the tailcap rubber starting to balloon out over the course of a few minutes. It had a pair of alkalines that were quite old in it though...pre-emptively replaced the batts in our CO detector in the house, they were over 3 years old, and it was starting to chirp. Those bears lit the L2D though....even when they started leaking.




I'm a bit surprised about the L2D being a "Vampire", since the L1D can be hard to light up with depleted cells. But when I come to think about it, I don't think I ever had that problem with the L2D. Anyone know why it's so, that 2 cells together can be depleted more than 1 single cell?


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## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lobo said:


> I'm a bit surprised about the L2D being a "Vampire", since the L1D can be hard to light up with depleted cells. But when I come to think about it, I don't think I ever had that problem with the L2D. Anyone know why it's so, that 2 cells together can be depleted more than 1 single cell?


Might be that 2 batteries in series will provide more Voltage then a single battery at any charge level. like, if a single is giving 0.9 instead of 1.5, two batteries would still give 1.8? maybe...but is the L2D series?
Crenshaw


----------



## Sinjz

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Sinjz said:


> I thought, unlike the multi-cell lights that use circuits to draw high current, that the Inova X5 was safe with two cells because it just uses a resistor and doesn't draw more than what the battery want to push out. :thinking: is that wrong?





Sub_Umbra said:


> This situation is muddied by the fact that the INOVA X5 *red* is often recommended as a great light to draw the last out of a 123 cell. While this is true, it is very important to remember that the INOVA X5 with a red LED *only uses one cr123 cell.*
> 
> The INOVA X5 Red *is not a 2xcr123 light.*



I was referring to a two cell X5, so your comment confuses me. 

Is it safe to use two worn down cells in a resistor based LED light or an incandescent? Now what if those cells weren't perfectly matched?

Does the SureFire M6 have any type of circuit in it or is it a straight incandescent?


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Crenshaw said:


> Might be that 2 batteries in series will provide more Voltage then a single battery at any charge level. like, if a single is giving 0.9 instead of 1.5, two batteries would still give 1.8? maybe...but is the L2D series?
> Crenshaw



I think you've got it right. I've also used my L2D as a drainer. Since it's the same head as the L1D it will work with one battery, too. A couple AA's that won't fire it in one cell setup will work fine in two cell mode.

Geoff


----------



## Sub_Umbra

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Sinjz said:


> I was referring to a two cell X5, so your comment confuses me.
> 
> Is it safe to use two worn down cells in a resistor based LED light or an incandescent? Now what if those cells weren't perfectly matched?...


I don't think it's safe *in a two cell light,* from what I've read.


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



IcantC said:


> The Fenix E0 Dart! See my ongoing test here
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/186657



I just ordered another one, they seem to be back in stock at fenixstore now, who knows how long that will last...get them while they last!


Crenshaw


----------



## dulridge

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



RoyJ said:


> Here's what we should all do - use nothing but 6D Mags.
> 
> This way, when the battery drops to 1.25V, switch to a 5cell bulb. When the battery goes down to 1V, switch to a 4cell bulb. 3cell bulb @ 0.75V, 2cell bulbs @ 0.5V, and finally, solitair bulb at 0.25V.
> 
> Who says you can't have perfect regulation on a stock Incan Mag?




Bit big for EDC though. Love the idea.


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

somthing interesting just happened, My E0 lit up on a battery that my arc wouldnt run on....oo: im happy i ordered another E0 now..

Crenshaw


----------



## pbs357

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Are there any other multi-led (5mm etc) lights that run on 1xcr123 with white LEDs?


----------



## crofty

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Don`t see an E01 on the list.


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

sorry, this fell out of circulation before the E01 came out....

ill update it now..along with another find of mine

Crenshaw


----------



## JWP_EE

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I don't see the MTE AA SSC-P4 42180-U on the list so I will add it.


----------



## bullfrog

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



greenLED said:


> AA: CMG Task Light
> AAA: ArcAAA
> 123: Inova X5, ArcLS, or SF L1 (Lux)



Hi GreenLED,

Do you know the lumens/runtimes of the Surefire L1 lux red? 

Trying to compare it to the next gen of the red L1 lumamax which I believe is 1.1/22 lumens for 90/4 hours...

Also, is the lux version the one with the "4 flats" head?

Thanks!


----------



## Gatsby

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



pbs357 said:


> Are there any other multi-led (5mm etc) lights that run on 1xcr123 with white LEDs?



The Peak McKinley AFAustin mentions above is a 1xCR123 light that is available with 1 or 7 white LEDs. I have an older model which is a low power version - not a real bright beam even from 7 LEDs but I bet it runs forever on a spent cell and in an outage, backup and night adjusted vision situation it's a pretty solid little light. 

I'll have to throw in a cell and see how it does. But it really is a low power model.


----------



## Juggernaut

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Sinjz said:


> How about an Opalec for the AA's in any combination from 2 to 6 cells?
> 
> I have one on a two cell MiniMag with multiple +1AA extensions.


 
Were do you get minimag extensions?


----------



## MWClint

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Gatsby said:


> The Peak McKinley AFAustin mentions above is a 1xCR123 light that is available with 1 or 7 white LEDs. I have an older model which is a low power version - not a real bright beam even from 7 LEDs but I bet it runs forever on a spent cell and in an outage, backup and night adjusted vision situation it's a pretty solid little light.
> 
> I'll have to throw in a cell and see how it does. But it really is a low power model.



I have a mckinley 7led ultra power cr123a. I've hooked up various AA's(no body) and found it will power up on a single AA nimh down to ~.97-1.0v 
I have not tried an alkaline AA or primary cr123a.(i use rcr123's)


----------



## VF1Jskull1

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

my nitecore extreme infinity will run in very low mode on nearly dead cr123a cells (less than 20% on zts battery tester). been getting at least 2 to 4 hours of low light from what seem to be dead cr123a cells so vampirize them as a nightlight....


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



VF1Jskull1 said:


> my nitecore extreme infinity will run in very low mode on nearly dead cr123a cells (less than 20% on zts battery tester). been getting at least 2 to 4 hours of low light from what seem to be dead cr123a cells so vampirize them as a nightlight....



good to know, mine should be arriving any day now...

Crenshaw


----------



## Lightraven

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Just got my Nightcore Extreme a few minutes ago in the mail. Noticeably brighter than the Novatac 120T. 

Anyway, I tried a very depleted Surefire cell in my Fenix P2D CE, Novatac 120T and Nightcore Extreme. Neither the P2D, nor the 120T turned on. The Extreme turned on with about 1-2 lumens.


----------



## jumpstat

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The inova X1, Gen 2 reflector version eats very little on a single AA. It goes on and on.....even with depleted cells, it still gives out useable light.


----------



## ozner1991

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

what about zebralight h30-q5 for cr123?


----------



## Gatsby

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I suppose any multi level light with a low low qualifies - you could throw a used cell in an HDS or Novatac on low and run for a week or so... Liteflux LF3 has nearly as low a low setting.

Having said that - my primary source of CR123s are from my Novatac once it won't make full power - in a pinch (i.e. power outage) I could throw them back in to it for some extra power. But for me at least I don't really think of it as a true vampire since losing all the higher levels defeats one of the purposes of the light for me as an EDC and I tend not to swap batteries around a lot. These days I mostly use RCR123s in my Novatac anyway and rechargeables (mostly LSD AAs) in anything that will take them...


----------



## abvidledUK

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

*CR123* Vampires.
After researching this very requirement for a while, I decided to DIY.
Have a look at this...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205670 ?


Intending to run down part used CR123's (from my 2xCR123 P3Ds) on the low setting, for my night-time in-house wanderings.


----------



## leon2245

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Nice D.I.Y. you have there.

I notice a couple of suggestions for a "glo-tube" not in the O.P. summary- will it drain a CR123 beyond what no longer powers an L1 in low mode? N.M. I see they are being eliminated down to the best for each battery type so obviously the G.T. did not make the cut.

Doesn't look like the Inova 1xCR123 (red L.E.D. version) will offer much runtime beyond the L1 on lowest mode (20 vs. 16 hours). WHat about the splash-lite?


----------



## eyeeatingfish

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Anyone know if zebralights are good vampires?


----------



## Flea Bag

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Crenshaw, would just like to point-out that the correct link for the Splash-lite LED is this one:

http://www.tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=2109

For the record, my Splash-Lite LED did manage to beat the Milky MC2 at draining CR123s by providing some light (not necessarily usable levels of light) for at least a few more minutes after the MC2 shut down on its lowest level.


----------



## mbw_151

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

In some of the previous posts there was a lot of discussion about using an Inova X5 with white LEDs and the potential for  with two cells. I've been using an X5 with a dummy cell and one "dead" battery. Dead is defined as my HDC EDC B42XR on high steps down immediately. On these cells, the X5 puts out about 2 lumens and I've run it several hours without much change in output. I don't have the gear to do runtimes, but it seems it will run a very long time in this mode. It's a great vampire with little risk if you need a 2 lumen floody light.


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

You might say that the only true vampire is the Photon ReX, as it sucks power directly from a battery. :laughing:

Geoff


----------



## Jake.t

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Crenshaw said:


> we all have cells lying around that are half dead, because they dont run our lights at nice powerful outputs anymore...so what are the lights that run depleted cells well on the various battery form factors?
> i was thiking of making this a master listing thread for those...and make them commercially available lights...yes i know the milky candle exists, but im wondering whats on the commercial market too...
> 
> 
> i rum my batteries im my lights when my princeton tech attitude runs low i stick 'em in my maglite solitaire so now i can run it 4 times as the attitude takes 4x aaa


----------



## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the MagLED 2 C or D drop-in module. 

I've had mine for about 18 months, now, and it still impresses me with very good output (even better now that I've swapped the Luxeon with a SSC P4 LED) and very long run times. I take the batteries out of my older MagLite when the Xenon bulb barely glows orange and put them into my MagLED and continue to to use those batteries for months on end until they drop off, too. What's amazing about this is that I rarely use my incan 2D but always use my LED.

I just tried hooking this drop-in module to a single AA NiMH cell that has about 1.21V in it and it lit right up. I don't know how much less output it was putting out compared to two cells but it worked. This opens up the possibility to use it in some PR bulb lights using a single cell, probably at a reduced output.


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

sorry about the lack of updates to the original post.... i need to keep an eye out for this thread

updating!

Crenshaw


----------



## shomie911

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Peak LED Solutions Kino Bay (with the P4 LED.)

I just tried my Peak Kino Bay SS P4 with a completely dead Zinc-Carbon AA that had been sitting in a drawer for a few years. It lit up and didn't even flicker. It was nowhere near bright but it was on.

I left the Kino Bay with an Alkaline for more than a week and it kept on going, I got bored and just replaced the cell and put it back in my pocket.

Definitely a battery vampire and a runtime champ.

Gotta love good 'ole Peak flashlights with modern emitters. :twothumbs


----------



## s.c.

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

are there any other candidates for a 1x123 vampire?

I'm tempted to get the dorcy at my local target, but was hoping for something a little newer.


----------



## Black Rose

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have 3 of the Dorcy lights. I swapped the Lux stars for Seoul P4 U bin stars. 
Almost doubled the light output while preserving its' battery vampire capabilities.


----------



## s.c.

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Black Rose said:


> I have 3 of the Dorcy lights. I swapped the Lux stars for Seoul P4 U bin stars.
> Almost doubled the light output while preserving its' battery vampire capabilities.



unfortunately I don't have the skills or resources to do something like that.


----------



## AFAustin

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



s.c. said:


> are there any other candidates for a 1x123 vampire?
> 
> I'm tempted to get the dorcy at my local target, but was hoping for something a little newer.



As a big believer in the excellent Dracula capabilities of my Peak brass McKinley 1 LED, I'd suggest calling Robyn or Curt at Peak while their 25% off sale is still on (ends 4/30). Although the Peak website only shows the 7 LED McKinley, they often have lots of other goodies on hand. My 1 LED McKinley lives on spent CR123As that won't fire up anything else, and puts out a very usable amount of light for a long time.


----------



## s.c.

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Does anyone know how well the Liteflux LF3XT do as a vampire when on the lowest setting?


----------



## bullfrog

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

FINALLY getting a red led Inova X5 (thanks gunga) - time to see what all the nosferatu fuss is about!


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



s.c. said:


> Does anyone know how well the Liteflux LF3XT do as a vampire when on the lowest setting?



I haven't actually run one dry, but I've seen battery voltages of 2.4 on low, as reported by the light. I always seem to have a reason to put in a new one before running one completely down. Maybe this time I'll try it. Right now it's reading 2.8v on low and 2.4v on high.

Geoff


----------



## gunga

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



bullfrog said:


> FINALLY getting a red led Inova X5 (thanks gunga) - time to see what all the nosferatu fuss is about!


 

Have fun!

Now i want to get McKinley, preferably in Brass to try out a brass peak and also have a Cr123 vampire!

:thumbsup:


----------



## 270winchester

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have some some seemingly dead cells that don't do anything in say the E1B or the Koala tower module to work on low levels in the Ra Clicky.

YMMV


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The Zebralight H30 sucks a 123 dry.

It goes out like the plug was pulled when it does however...

I read with it on medium and get NO warning before darkness. Like it anyway!


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Just ran my LF3XT down completely. Doesn't die suddenly, but steps down to the lowest level. At the point where it started dropping the voltage reading was showing about 2.1v. At around 1.9v. it went out after maybe another hour of use. With a bit of rest it would still relight on low for 5-10 min. periods. Got a final reading of 1.6v. before it would only stay on for a few seconds.

At this point I put the battery in my L1 and am getting a somewhat usable glow that's slightly dimmer than the LF3XT's lowest level.

Geoff

Edit: After about 30 min. the L1 is down to a barely perceptable glow. I can just make it out if I put my eye right up to the front. Now this is truly being a vampire!


----------



## tebore

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I don't see the SMJLED 2-Cell PR module listed that thing can really suck any 2 cells dry in a PR socket light.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Oh yeah, the SMJLED PR! Run it on two D cells and it runs a looooooooooooong time!!!


----------



## s.c.

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

What exactly constitutes a vampire?

My akoray 106 will run down a AA to .89. It's my personal vampire, but how does that compare with the others on the list?


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Crenshaw said:


> *Homemade/Cpfer Made/Modified*
> These are not necesarily always available, and some are DIY


How about angelofwar's elegantly-simple P60 mod, using a basic 5mm LED (any color you want) in a burned-out P60 lamp assembly for a great long-runtime drop-in for a SureFire 3P-type body or a 6P+spacer?
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/237648


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Kestrel said:


> How about angelofwar's elegantly-simple P60 mod, using a basic 5mm LED (any color you want) in a burned-out P60 lamp assembly for a great long-runtime drop-in for a SureFire 3P-type body or a 6P+spacer?
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/237648




oh yeah...ill add it in, along with the other suggestions that have not been added yet

Crenshaw


----------



## mon90ey

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Post removed. Sorry, and thanks!


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I think I might have already said this but...

When my Zebralight H30 running on medium blinks out there is NOTHING left in that 123.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Crenshaw said:


> oh yeah...ill add it in, along with the other suggestions that have not been added yet
> 
> Crenshaw



Joule thieves should get a mention too. 
http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/joule.htm
Granted, its not as straight forward to build one but they can drain any 1.5V cell from D to those button cells. 
Heres where I made mine. I've made many more since, with a nichia GS, a cree, and hopefully with some warm white 5mm leds.

ANother good circuit is the LT3 replacement for the maglite solitaires. Since the 3mm led broke on it, I've been using it to drive 5mm LED's and its good. Had one running off a D-cell for ages. Still lights up and I have another 3 D cells.


----------



## Light Sabre

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The Coast led lenser Mini Tac TT7830CP *1 AAA* is a battery vampire. :thumbsup: Package says 7.5 lumens, 18 hours max battery life. I would say 4.5 hours sun mode, and a very very long moon mode (total time so far is 19+ hours and counting) using a Rayovac alkaline. 

Searching on the internet all I seem to find is the 4 old button cell model. The 1 AAA version is not even on their website. Unknown if it can take a lithium battery.

I like the warning on the back of the card: "*Caution: Do not mix old and new batteries. Do not mix alkaline, standard (carbon-zinc), or rechargeable (nickel cadmium) batteries."* All that for a 1 AAA flashlight!!! :thinking:


----------



## maxspeeds

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have an Inova X5 in the mail. I hear they are awesome battery vampires.


----------



## fisk-king

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

not sure if this counts..

but my MiNi 123 lasted a long time on 1 battery station cr123. the resting voltage (if that counts) when the light died was 2.17V. :shrug:


----------



## LED_Thrift

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



maxspeeds said:


> I have an Inova X5 in the mail. I hear they are awesome battery vampires.


They sure are. Remember that the batteries are inserted "backwards" in the X5 - battery negative toward the head.


----------



## shark_za

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

This could be true with all 2AA lights that have a 1AA version using the same head. 

I just fired up my iTP C8 with 2x alkaline AA's measuring .75v each on my DMM.

It ran low and lower when adjusting with the infinite variable option. It even flashes when it gets to lowest. 
Scared to run it much longer as I would hate to clean up.


----------



## bullfrog

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



maxspeeds said:


> I have an Inova X5 in the mail. I hear they are awesome battery vampires.



+2 

Enjoy it - my red x5 has been my ****-in-the-middle-of-the-night light for close to a year now - AND STILL ON THE SAME CR123!!


----------



## bluepilgrim

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

About 2 years ago I made up a nightlight out of plastic pipe using the Niteize 3-led upgrade for the Mag 2 aa flashlight, and built to take one D cell. I've been using the same 2 or 3 D cells (alkalines) all this time, tossing them into a recharger for a short time when they run low -- when the light gets dim enough it's really hard to see the table it sits on. But the light never went out -- just got really dim. The old cells now take very little charge and dim out after a week or so (about 1/2 hour per night), but the light doesn't go out -- it looks like that Niteize adapter will suck almost the last drop of juice from a cell -- and that's starting out using one 1.5V cell instead of the two it's designed for. When I first started using it, it ran off a used D cell for 6 months.


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Interesting info about that NiteIze dropin, bluepilgrim. I've got one gathering dust here that I should put to use. Maybe set up a shootout of it versus my old favorite Task Force 1AA for low voltage startup.

Geoff


----------



## RAGE CAGE

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Crenshaw- great thread. Might I suggest an N cell candidate?
PEAK LED SOLUTIONS Shasta with 1 or 3 led heads or the Baltic XLR head lego'd onto the Shata body.:thumbsup:


----------



## Toohotruk

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



bluepilgrim said:


> About 2 years ago I made up a nightlight out of plastic pipe using the Niteize 3-led upgrade for the Mag 2 aa flashlight, and built to take one D cell. I've been using the same 2 or 3 D cells (alkalines) all this time, tossing them into a recharger for a short time when they run low -- when the light gets dim enough it's really hard to see the table it sits on. But the light never went out -- just got really dim. The old cells now take very little charge and dim out after a week or so (about 1/2 hour per night), but the light doesn't go out -- it looks like that Niteize adapter will suck almost the last drop of juice from a cell -- and that's starting out using one 1.5V cell instead of the two it's designed for. When I first started using it, it ran off a used D cell for 6 months.



I'd love to see some pics of your creation...


----------



## OutTheFront

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Would the Maratac AA be a good single AA cell vampire? I don't know how much current it needs to turn on in low, but the low is like 1.5 lumens.


----------



## Sadsack

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I pulled a cr123 out of my mini 123 after it would no longer fire up on low and put it in a Inova x5 with a dummy cell and this lights been running about 6hrs a night for well over a week. :wave:


----------



## alnico357

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have a blue LED 1AA CMG light I use at night for navagation in the house. I save AA batteries from my electric shaver for it.


----------



## fisk-king

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Sadsack said:


> I pulled a cr123 out of my mini 123 after it would no longer fire up on low and put it in a Inova x5 with a dummy cell and this lights been running about 6hrs a night for well over a week. :wave:



I need to look into getting one of these inova lights. If I understand correctly the red x5 is only 1 cr123 as oppose to the other X5 models?


----------



## swxb12

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have an original KaiDomain "Buckle" AAA light (SSC-P4 iirc) that drops out of regulation and drains out alkaline batteries pretty well. At the moment I'm comparing it to my Zebralight SC50w's low mode of 0.6lm and the KD is noticeably dimmer.

No idea if the V6 (yep, version 6) has the same type of function.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I picked up a dorcy 2AA with what looks like a rebel LED in if from biglots and it can put out useable lights off a 1.0v single AA alkaline so using 2 AAs in it you could bleed them below half a volt each an lower but it won't restart much less than a volt. The niteize 2-6 cell mag dropin will also work off a half used single battery, I used a bent paper clip to attach one to a used D cell and I used it in the evenings for several weeks. The interesting thing about the dorcy is if you can unscrew the head it makes for a great flood light although the emitter is recessed below the threads.


----------



## [email protected]

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



fisk-king said:


> but my MiNi 123 lasted a long time on 1 battery station cr123. the resting voltage (if that counts) when the light died was 2.17V. :shrug:



My battery vampire will run well below 2.1v (as that's it's nominal Vf) :thumbsup:







FWIW I know it will still run at significantly lower levels because of it's resistored 2 stage tailcap


----------



## Swedpat

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

My Malkoff M60s really suck out everything from the batteries. Many hours after they fall out of regulation they continue to run with decreasing brightness. 

Regards, Patric


----------



## tolkaze

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I ran 2 cells down from full to about 2.2V each on my MG P-rocket, then checked the voltage, to make sure it was the same, then put them in my X5 White, and it went for another 10 hours give or take. It still puts out about a 10 Lumen burst (Cells recovered, and sitting at 1.61V each) and about 2 - 3 Lumens after about 5 minutes... this just keeps on going and going... Oh, I am checking the voltage a lot to make sure they don't go imbalanced... but wow! useable middle of the night light!

Would love to get hold of an X5 Red though, if anyone wants to get rid of theirs...


----------



## fisk-king

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



[email protected] said:


> My battery vampire will run well below 2.1v (as that's it's nominal Vf) :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW I know it will still run at significantly lower levels because of it's resistored 2 stage tailcap



What light is that:thinking:?


Edit: nevermind, I took a look at his list of lights


----------



## red02

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Probably this mod: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/237648&page=5


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I've recently noticed that the QMini AA Warm seems to do a good job. It appears to not need too much voltage to re-fire.

Geoff


----------



## red02

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Maratac AA fires on almost dead cells, no noticeable PWM even then. Although all the modes are the same. It's replaced my GUI as the SHTF/AA battery vampire light. Its also very shiny.


----------



## Dude Dudeson

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I keep thinking there has to be a better way of utilizing "excess" battery power than by actually RUNNING such cells in a device.

I dream of a device that looks like a big, multiple type battery charger, except you put your "dead" cells in there and shoot that electricity into your cellphone, MP3 player, or whatever...


----------



## bstrickler

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Dude Dudeson said:


> I keep thinking there has to be a better way of utilizing "excess" battery power than by actually RUNNING such cells in a device.
> 
> I dream of a device that looks like a big, multiple type battery charger, except you put your "dead" cells in there and shoot that electricity into your cellphone, MP3 player, or whatever...



In other words, a boost converter with a USB port, to put out 5.5 volts @ whatever current the battery can supply, until pronounced dead... I might have to try coming up with that soon. Just wonder how many people would use it.

~Brian


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



bstrickler said:


> In other words, a boost converter with a USB port, to put out 5.5 volts @ whatever current the battery can supply, until pronounced dead... I might have to try coming up with that soon. Just wonder how many people would use it.
> 
> ~Brian


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

SOrry, havent noticed i need to update this.....

Crenshaw


----------



## red02

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



bstrickler said:


> In other words, a boost converter with a USB port, to put out 5.5 volts @ whatever current the battery can supply, until pronounced dead... I might have to try coming up with that soon. Just wonder how many people would use it.
> 
> ~Brian



 if it could charge a cell phone or a mp3 player


----------



## Imon

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I've noticed that my Icon Rouge 1AA will run on AA cells that I thought previously were dead. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## fisk-king

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Imon said:


> I've noticed that my Icon Rouge 1AA will run on AA cells that I thought previously were dead. Has anyone else noticed this?




I wonder what was the voltage of your dead "alkey" cells when installed.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

my black and decker 2AAA swivel head light will run on just one battery down to around 1.2v or about 0.6v/AAA (using 2 AAAs).


----------



## [email protected]

*Battery Vampires - BooYah!*



bstrickler said:


> In other words, a boost converter with a USB port, to put out 5.5 volts @ whatever current the battery can supply, until pronounced dead... I might have to try coming up with that soon. Just wonder how many people would use it.



Sounds like a variation of the portable USB charger theme, I've seen Duracell marketing THESE and thought You Beauty! I suppose they could be hacked to accept a wider variety of cell power sources :thinking:

BTW the *P60 5mm LED drop-in* can turn any P60 host into a battery vampire a CR123a dummy cell is highly recomended for 2 x CR123a host casings to prevent 






_Kestrel's 5mm "Radio Shack" LED P60 module_


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires - BooYah!*



[email protected] said:


> Sounds like a variation of the portable USB charger theme, I've seen Duracell marketing THESE and thought You Beauty! :thumbsup:
> 
> I suppose they could be hacked to accept a wider variety of cell power sources :thinking:
> 
> BTW the *P60 5mm LED drop-in* can turn any P60 host into a battery vampire a CR123a dummy cell is highly recomended for 2 x CR123a host casings to


 
Plus, the P60 5mm LED Drop-in can be ran on 2 AA's in a 3-Cell P60 host, making it an excellent light for a bug-out bag :thumbsup:.


----------



## KenAnderson

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Don't forget the McLuxIII-PD and the McLuxIII-Ti-PD

On High and Low settings, runs for 40 hours on a CR123 on low, will drain a battery.


----------



## [email protected]

*Re: Battery Vampires - BooYah!*



angelofwar said:


> Plus, the P60 5mm LED Drop-in can be ran on 2 AA's in a 3-Cell P60 host, making it an excellent light for a bug-out bag :thumbsup:.



Excellent point! :thumbsup:

Just for the record my early series L1 ceases to put out any useful quantity of light when the CR123a hits *2.7~2.8v*, perhaps the newer variants can drain a cell further? IDK :candle:


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - BooYah!*



[email protected] said:


> Excellent point! :thumbsup:
> 
> Just for the record my early series L1 ceases to put out any useful quantity of light when the CR123a hits *2.7~2.8v*, perhaps the newer variants can drain a cell further? IDK :candle:


I recently found out that a CR123 that can't run my SF T1A on 'max' (i.e. it 'flashes' until the output is turned down) can still run my (comparable output) *SF L1 'Cree'* on its high mode with no apparent decrease in the L1's output compared to a fresh cell. :thumbsup: (I'm not sure for how long, though)


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Just got a 5th Gen L1....the runtime is stated at 90 hours on low, so I'm thinking this generation has to drain it pretty good...I was gonna get rid of it, since I have another 6th gen L1 incoming, but that 90 hour runtime of useful light with such excellent UI is to good to pass-up. Plus, the "1.1 SF Lumens" is more like 5-7 lumens.

So,

Put the 5th gen L1 down as a vampire!


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



angelofwar said:


> Just got a 5th Gen L1....the runtime is stated at 90 hours on low, so I'm thinking this generation has to drain it pretty good...I was gonna get rid of it, since I have another 6th gen L1 incoming, but that 90 hour runtime of useful light with such excellent UI is to good to pass-up. Plus, the "1.1 SF Lumens" is more like 5-7 lumens!


Would you mind posting pics if you can (both of your 5th gen L1 and particularly the printed packaging w/ SF's runtime/output numbers if you have it) in my L1 thread in my sig? Those earlier long-runtime L1's are great. :thumbsup:


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

My L1 Cree is an excellent vampire. Batteries that no longer fire in my QMini 123 or LF3XT will run nicely on low. And it will continue to restart even when it's barely a glow.

Geoff


----------



## [email protected]

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Yeah that L1 glow is all I'm geting @ 2.7~2.8v, I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me what voltage the later L1's cease to function at (in relation the the cell) might help to further persuade me to "retire" this Gen2 as purely a collectable :thumbsup:


* peeks at AOW's Gen5 L1 *


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

one of my favorite battery vampires died on me, taskforce 1AA. I need to find a good 16mm driver board to replace the broken one I destroyed trying to get it out to fix it, perhaps one with an efficient low mode.


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



[email protected] said:


> Yeah that L1 glow is all I'm geting @ 2.7~2.8v, I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me what voltage the later L1's cease to function at (in relation the the cell) might help to further persuade me to "retire" this Gen2 as purely a collectable :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> * peeks at AOW's Gen5 L1 *


 
My cell was at 2.58 before I started using it last night, and I used it quite a bit. I'll get a new reading on it again and see what it's sitting at. Oh, BTW, it will still go on "High" at this level as well


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Kestrel said:


> Would you mind posting pics if you can (both of your 5th gen L1 and particularly the printed packaging w/ SF's runtime/output numbers if you have it) in my L1 thread in my sig? Those earlier long-runtime L1's are great. :thumbsup:


 
Don't have the packaging any more Kestrel, but ih have some older catalogs...will try to get you a pic of the light this evening, and one of the runtime when I get back.


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> one of my favorite battery vampires died on me, taskforce 1AA.



This one was my best AA sucker, too. Mine has recently suffered switch failure. I've not yet made a serious effort to open it up.

Geoff


----------



## [email protected]

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



angelofwar said:


> My cell was at 2.58 before I started using it last night, and I used it quite a bit. I'll get a new reading on it again and see what it's sitting at. Oh, BTW, it will still go on "High" at this level as well




Thanks I'd appreciate knowing just how efficient the later L1's are :thumbsup:


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Flying Turtle said:


> This one was my best AA sucker, too. Mine has recently suffered switch failure. I've not yet made a serious effort to open it up.
> 
> Geoff



I have some of the cheap 1AA husky lights but they don't have the nice beam this one did. I removed the optic and put in a reflector and it was a lot nicer.


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



[email protected] said:


> Thanks I'd appreciate knowing just how efficient the later L1's are :thumbsup:


 
Hmmm...well, the low seems to stop producing at 2.56 volts...

But, the "High" still works (and is relatively bright) at 2.38!!!

This is the lowest I've seen seen a battery still produce a very useable amount of light...I'm guessing it's still about 10-15 lumens.

Only "Problem" I see, is that you still have to back the tailcap out past the low setting, as I imagine it's still drawing power, even though the "low" stting is'nt producing visible light.

Is this from a "Buck Driver"??? I'll see how long it'll let me run it, but nice to know it'll still work when the cell is so low.


----------



## shao.fu.tzer

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

This thread hasn't been updated in awhile so I would like to add that you can make almost any single-cell, battery crushing twisty into a vampire (depending on internal circuitry of course) by using a QTC pill with it. I've been using my Peak Logan brass #8 with a QTC as my vampire and it drains them down pretty low, it just takes a little more user interaction to accomplish it. Another overlooked P60 option is the Solarforce LV series of drop ins, particularly the 3 modes - they'll light up on almost anything in low mode. Also, I've noticed that my Thrunite Neutron 1C on firefly mode will drain CR123s to almost nothing. 

...and maybe I missed it, but the CMG Infinity is mentioned in the list, but not the Gerber version - is it because they're identical, or did Gerber change the internals?


----------



## Harry999

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Shao,

My Gerber Recon AA (all five of them) seems to be able to light up and keep running on AA batteries that no longer turn on other lights. I am not sure if it has the same circuit as the Infinity Ultra but it certainly runs a 5mm led so I think it does.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I think the Eveready 1D LED dropin in a 2 cell host would make a great dead cell drainer for the price.


----------



## shao.fu.tzer

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Harry999 said:


> Shao,
> 
> My Gerber Recon AA (all five of them) seems to be able to light up and keep running on AA batteries that no longer turn on other lights. I am not sure if it has the same circuit as the Infinity Ultra but it certainly runs a 5mm led so I think it does.



Thanks for the info! All I own are the Gerber versions but I've honestly never had to change a battery in one...


----------



## enki_ck

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I just pulled dead AA batteries out of my wireless keyboard. I checked the voltage, ~0,53 volts. Whoa, that's dead, I thought. But out of curiosity I put one in my Gerber Infinity Ultra. 













* IT WORKED










*


----------



## think2x

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I pulled the 123 out of my X5 RED reading 2.334v(still working) and put it in my wife's *Jetbeam BC10*, only one level and dimmer than a Fenix E01 but still usable light.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

You can not easily duplicate it. But my Pierce M10 has been used for a couple weeks for 30-45 seconds a night to charge the GITD tail of my nocturnal bathroom light. The battery I pulled from it had 2.63v and ZERO Flash amps. DEAD baby!


----------



## angelofwar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Thanks for reviving this PBJS. I think this belongs here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316124-*1-K-hr-Update*-L1-RD-(L1-Red)-vs-X5-Red-vs-24-7

:devil:


----------



## Gregozedobe

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

This thread made me curious, so I got all my deceased alkaline AAs, checked them for signs of leakage, sorted through them to find the "least alive", lined up all my single AA cell lights and started testing. 

Best of all was a real cheapo from "Windeal" on ebay. This would light up (at a reduced but useable level) on a battery that couldn't raise enough voltage for light on any of my other more expensive lights (best of which was an early model Zebralight H51). When I took the battery out it measured at 0.266v (and slowly rising as it recovered from being "vampired"). I have to admit to being impressed, so I think I'll buy a few more as cheap giveaways.

Note: For real-life draining of batteries I have a custom built "battery drainer" built by a CPF member that I use as a night light in the hallway. It has a 5mm LED with a boost circuit and a magnet on the +ve end, with a single wire going to a magnet for the -ve end. That way if a dying alkaline battery leaks (as they often do) it won't harm a real flashlight, and probably won't do much damage to my battery drainer either.


----------



## jh333233

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Its heard that Surefire T1A eats dead battery quite well


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



jh333233 said:


> Its heard that Surefire T1A eats dead battery quite well


Comparing it to the SureFire L1 (Cree), it's not quite as good I've found out. A CR123 that cannot sustain the SF T1A on 'max' can still run the ~100 lumen SF L1 on 'high'. However, regarding using the SF T1A on 'low-low', I'd expect that the T1A begins to come into its own.


----------



## HotWire

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have only a few AA lights, but when the cells need changing I save them for my wireless mouse. They work for a month or more. Guilt free lumens!


----------



## jh333233

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Lets give a vote for the amazing SF A2
5mm eats dead batts


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*

So here is how it started:

I was looking at my plastic bag full of about 20 depleted CR123 batteries, wondering if I could use them for anything. I used my multimeter to test all the batteries, and found the lowest voltage battery in the bag - a Surefire sitting at about 2.4v. This battery would not light up any of my 1xCR123 lights, incandescent or LED, no matter which mode I tried. 

I then started reading many "Battery Vampire" threads here on CPF. I do not own any of the listed CR123 vampire lights discussed, so I lost heart. Then I kept thinking about 5mm LED lights (such as my Fenix EO1) that drain AAA batteries down like crazy. My mind drifted to the 5mm LED ring on my Surefire A2. I have some CR123 dummy cells sitting around, and wondered if a single depleted CR123 paired with a dummy cell would light up the LED ring in the A2.

I put in the 2.4v battery, then the dummy cell, screwed on the tailcap and pressed the switch. There in my hand, I saw the faintest glowing little orb of blue-ish white light - perhaps .25 lumen. It works.

So now the questions:

1. Has anyone else realized the A2 can be used with a depleted CR123 and a dummy cell to barely light up the LED ring?

And more importantly...

2. Is this safe? Am I risking damage/danger with either the battery or the light?


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*

If you are referring to the older incan A2, the 5mm LEDs are resistor-direct driven. So yes they will run the cell down to near-nothing. I have done it before, but I don't make it a habit. I just toss the cells into the recycle bin... and try not to think about it much. The general consensus is that bad things can happen when you deplete Lithium cells down that far. Although with a single cel + dummy, you are safer than with two cells.


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*

Yes, this an original incan A2, but not the oldest flat-sided model, if that matters. I wouldn't want to, nor would I see the point of, running these cells down below 2.0v or so. I just have so many 2.5-2.8v Surefire CRx123 cells laying around with nothing to put them in. I know the dangers of using 2 depleted cells in series, and I would never try that. But this 1xCR123 with dummy cell setup seems to be safe, but I will defer to the experts. This newly-discovered A2 Vampire might just make the perfect bedside light for middle of the night pitch-black bathroom trips, to not wake my wife : )


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*

Well, after some more reading, I thought I'd try a Gerber Omnivore as a dedicated battery vampire, since it takes AA, AAA, and CR123 batteries, and people have mentioned it runs just fine on very depleted cells. I bought one at a nearby REI, got home and put the most depleted CR123 battery I have in it. It lights up barely for about 2 seconds, then fades to black. I put this same battery back into the Surefire A2 with a dummy cell, and sure enough, it just barely lights up the LED ring, and stays on. I think I'll take the Omnivore back, since the main reason I bought it was to be a CR123 vampire.

It just seems like a shame to use such an expensive and technically advanced and unique light like the A2 for the purpose of just draining old cells.


----------



## archimedes

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*

Peak Logan 17500 QTC also takes AA, AAA, and CR123A (with adapters), and runs for a _long_ time on depleted cells ....


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*



archimedes said:


> Peak Logan 17500 QTC also takes AA, AAA, and CR123A (with adapters), and runs for a _long_ time on depleted cells ....



That looks like a beautiful and handy little light, but at that price, plus the multi-battery option...seems like overkill for a dedicated battery vampire. The Zebralight SC80 looks like a pretty decent option at a slightly better price point, but still way overkill for a vampire only. This Omnivore was only $27, but the "optic" and the LED make a hideous bright blue orb with rings all around it, plus it won't light up on CR123 cells that are sitting at less than 2.6v or so. Not quite what I'd call a true vampire.

I might have to get one of calipsoii's A2 rings in warm white, just to have a 3x5mm, warm-tint, single CR123 vampire that will run cells down to the last drop.


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*

I've merged this A2 thread from yesterday with the existing "Battery Vampire" thread.


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*

So the first post in this thread says the list was "*LAST UPDATED 12/05/09*".

Have there been any comprehensive lists compiled since then? For instance, the A2 Aviator isn't listed anywhere on that list, but now I see there has been much consensus that it will in fact eat dead CR123s.


----------



## think2x

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*



JohnnyLunar said:


> I have some CR123 dummy cells sitting around, and wondered if a single depleted CR123 paired with a dummy cell would light up the LED ring in the A2.
> 
> I put in the 2.4v battery, then the dummy cell, screwed on the tailcap and pressed the switch. There in my hand, I saw the faintest glowing little orb of blue-ish white light - perhaps .25 lumen. It works.
> 
> So now the questions:
> 
> 1. Has anyone else realized the A2 can be used with a depleted CR123 and a dummy cell to barely light up the LED ring?



This got me curious also. The new A2L wont light with a 2.5v cell so I tried a 2.8v and still wouldn't light but when I tried a 3.0v and a fresh new single primary(3.3v) it will light the red leds in TWO modes instead of lighting the SSC P4. Essentially in a pinch you could use the A2L-RD as a floody 2 level RED light (like my L1-RD)


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Surefire A2 Aviator - A Battery Vampire?*

If the battery is low enough you could use the circuit in a 1.5v boosted light with a 123 cell as if depleted enough it can't put out enough current to hurt the LED.


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Well, I found another vampire - a Thrunite XM-L D26 drop-in, rated at 2.7v-4.2v input voltage. It is running right now on a Surefire CR123A that was sitting at about 2.4v, along with a dummy cell, in a Surefire C2. All 3 levels work...although the levels are faint, ghostly, and almost-not-on. But you can still barely see the differences between the levels. Even with the drop-in on "high", all it does it change the XM-L die from yellow to soft white. You can literally look very closely at it and see every detail of the XM-L. This setup does not light up a 6PL or a Streamlight Polytac LED, although both of those lit up softly on a cell sitting around 2.6v. The A2 Aviator Incan still has it's LEDs glowing softly on this 2.4v cell and a dummy.


----------



## HighlanderNorth

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



TMorita said:


> Vampires don't feed on dead animals. They feed on live ones.
> 
> You haven't watched enough horror movies!!!
> 
> For 1xCR123 I would add the Dorcy 1 watt CR123. It will emit a fair amount of light on batteries that are completely dead in my other lights.
> 
> Toshi




In the 1st season of "The Walking Dead", there were zombies eating a dead horse in the city, but then again, zombies and vampires have different diets, as vampires stick to a liquid diet and they do prefer it fresh and warm!

But that has asolotely nothing to do with the subject here, so:

What I am gathering here , is that its OK to use up the last bit of charge in a SINGLE Cr123 light, but _NOT _to do so in a 2 or more CR123 light. That seemed to be in dispute for a few minutes, but then seemed to be cleared up decisively. Fortunately, I dont use CR123's in ANY of my lights that will take 2 or more CR123's, as I use 18650's in them instead, but I do use _ONLY_ primary CR123's in my single CR123 sized lights, even though I do own a few RCR123's. So I'm glad to hear it shouldnt be a problem to run single CR123's down in single CR123 lights, because thats what I have been doing all along with my BC-10. 

I think my BC-10 seems to be a good vampire, but I havent used up batteries til they completely died with it, as I usually throw the CR123 out soon after regulation prevents it from running on high anymore, because I worry about how much battery life is left and whether i'll get stuck with a light that doesnt work even on low soon after, and I havent owned my other single CR123 lights long enough yet to be able to say whether they are good at using up the last drops of energy or not. 

So you guys tell me, are the following single battery lights considered good vampires: PC-10, BC-10, D25C Ti, PA-10(AA), Thrunite Ti(AAA), Olight/iTp i3(AAA), Titanium Innovations Illumina-Ti(AAA)?

Thanks


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



> Olight/iTp i3(AAA)



If this light is similar to the Maratac AAA (and I think it is), it is a VERY good vampire indeed. I have used my Maratac AAA with very depleted lithium and alkaline AAA's just to see if it would still light up, and it does. You start to lose any visible difference between high and medium, but it will run on low mode for days.



> So I'm glad to hear it shouldnt be a problem to run single CR123's down in single CR123 lights, because thats what I have been doing all along with my BC-10.



I'm no expert, but from what I gather, this is at least _safer_ than running multiple depleted cells in a series. Also, if you don't have a 1xCR123 vampire light, but you have a 2xCR123 vampire light, a CR123 dummy cell can be used in the light along with the depleted battery. That's what I've been doing in my A2 Incan. 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the main danger in multi-cell lights is using 2 or more batteries that are sitting at different voltages - i.e. using 1 fresh CR123 and one depleted CR123 in the same light.


----------



## Flying Turtle

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

My latest favorite vampire for AA's, along with being a favorite for just about everythlng is the Nitecore D11.2. The already great low level goes down to almost nothing, but still relights with a depleted battery. The only problem is finding time for vampire duty when the light is so good on a fresh battery.

Geoff


----------



## reppans

JohnnyLunar said:


> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the main danger in multi-cell lights is using 2 or more batteries that are sitting at different voltages - i.e. using 1 fresh CR123 and one depleted CR123 in the same light.



From what I understand (and somebody please feel free to correct me), the real risk in multi-cell configs is the reverse charge. One cell will always deplete faster than the other and the weaker will continue to lose voltage till it goes past zero and actually starts to charge in reverse. I believe the reverse polarity charging is what can explode a lithium and will leak an alkaline.

Even if cells are matched, slight manufacturing variances, by definition, mean one will deplete faster than the other. However, the greater the imbalance between the two, the greater the power of the reverse charge.... and kaboom?

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I'd vote for Quark low voltage head with a AA and 123 tube, and a AAA>AA spacer. This will drain just pretty much anything with an operating voltage 0.9-4.2 and a 1ma moonlight mode and 10ma low mode.


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

So looking around on Lighthound, I found a Solarforce LC-1 Cree R5 3-mode P60 drop-in that is listed with an input voltage of 0.8V-4.2V. Does that mean it will light up with a CR123 that has anything more than 0.8V left in it? If so, this might be the perfect battery vampire drop-in. I might have to get a Solarforce L2M host and this drop-in, and have a dedicated little CR123 vampire. Anyone have any experience with this drop-in?


----------



## nbp

Go to the google bar and punch in "Build yer own p60 battery vampire". Read that thread and build one. It's basically exactly what you want and cost about $2. 

Can't believe Kestrel didn't mention that one. Slacker. :nana:

He must have been in another subforum, fighting the 'good fight' and keeping the forums safe for all us innocent flashaholics.


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



> Go to the google bar and punch in "Build yer own p60 battery vampire". Read that thread and build one. It's basically exactly what you want and cost about $2.



Yeah, I saw that, but it would require me to purposely sacrifice one of my perfectly good P60 lamps (don't have any burned-out P60s laying around). For about half the price of a Surefire P60 lamp assembly, you can buy the Solarforce drop-in I mentioned above that seems to run on inputs as low as 0.8V. And you get 3 modes. Seems like a pretty decent option.


----------



## nbp

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



JohnnyLunar said:


> Yeah, I saw that, but it would require me to purposely sacrifice one of my perfectly good P60 lamps (don't have any burned-out P60s laying around). For about half the price of a Surefire P60 lamp assembly, you can buy the Solarforce drop-in I mentioned above that seems to run on inputs as low as 0.8V. And you get 3 modes. Seems like a pretty decent option.



Sometimes people will send you burned out lamp assemblies for free on the MP since they have no use for them. Anyways, it's a fun little project and it makes a great battery vampire that costs very little. Multimode seems useless when you are dealing with virtually dead batteries to begin with; the point is to squeeze just that last bit of juice out and get a small but usable amount of light from them. You can pick the 5mm of your choice and go to town. I liked mine. :shrug:


----------



## reppans

JohnnyLunar said:


> ..For about half the price of a Surefire P60 lamp assembly, you can buy the Solarforce drop-in I mentioned above that seems to run on inputs as low as 0.8V. And you get 3 modes. Seems like a pretty decent option.



The voltage range might be OK, but it may also depend on drop-in's regulation and 3 mode's spacing. If the lower end modes are not low enough, a near dead battery may not be have enough amperage to power the lowest mode. If the lowest mode is too low, then it may take a long long time, and/or not enough illumination, to kill the batt. 

The Quark has tightly spaced lower modes, which can sequentially be stepped down as the battery is unable support the next higher level. med 20 lms/ 50 ma - low 4 lms/ 10 ma - moonlight 0.2 lms/ 1 ma. should be able to squeeze every last drop.... well to 0.9V.


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



reppans said:


> The voltage range might be OK, but it may also depend on drop-in's regulation and 3 mode's spacing. If the lower end modes are not low enough, a near dead battery may not be have enough amperage to power the lowest mode. If the lowest mode is too low, then it may take a long long time, and/or not enough illumination, to kill the batt.



Agreed. Let's limit this thread to lights that have a demonstrated ability to operate on nearly-depleted cells. Thanks,


----------



## nbp

nbp said:


> Can't believe Kestrel didn't mention that one. Slacker. :nana:
> 
> He must have been another subforum, fighting the 'good fight' and keeping the forums safe for all us innocent flashaholics.



Heark! It is DM reborn! :laughing: 

You merged these threads. You had your chance. Just surrender.


----------



## HighlanderNorth

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



nbp said:


> Sometimes people will send you burned out lamp assemblies for free on the MP since they have no use for them. Anyways, it's a fun little project and it makes a great battery vampire that costs very little. Multimode seems useless when you are dealing with virtually dead batteries to begin with; the point is to squeeze just that last bit of juice out and get a small but usable amount of light from them. You can pick the 5mm of your choice and go to town. I liked mine. :shrug:




Actually what would be wrong with putting together a multi mode vampire light, which should cost about the exact same amount of money that a single mode light would cost, AND you'd be able to use the higher modes with newer batteries, so you wouldnt just be stuck with a 1 dimensional light?

Its like when I bought a profile sander back in 2003, and all its good for is sanding in corners and tight spaces, but then just about 2 years later, they introduced the new Fein Multimaster type multi-tools. If I couldve waited to buy that profile sander, I wouldve bought the Fein Multimaster instead, because it can sand in tight areas, and its a saw, and its useful for other purposes too.


----------



## nbp

HighlanderNorth said:


> Actually what would be wrong with putting together a multi mode vampire light, which should cost about the exact same amount of money that a single mode light would cost, AND you'd be able to use the higher modes with newer batteries, so you wouldnt just be stuck with a 1 dimensional light?



:thinking: 


I have 25 of those already. They're called every other flashlight I own!!!!

The whole point of this thread is to have a one dimensional flashlight - it's sole purpose is to put out a little light for a long time to drain cells you have already "used up" in your other flashlights and *cannot* support high modes. 

If I want high outputs and flashy modes and stuff I'll just use a different flashlight.


----------



## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The now discontinued Nite Ize 3-LED drop-in for the Mini-Mag in a cut-down MM makes a fantastic battery vampire. It's the light that I feed my spent AA cells to after the toroid Joule Thief has done it's part and won't light up anymore. Imagine this drop-in adapted to draining CR123a's?


----------



## JohnnyLunar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



> The whole point of this thread is to have a one dimensional flashlight - it's sole purpose is to put out a little light for a long time to drain cells you have already "used up" in your other flashlights and *cannot* support high modes.



Well, the Thrunite XM-L drop-in I have been testing the last 2 days still lights up a 2.35-2.6V CR123 in a P60 body with a dummy cell. I don't have any CR123s with lower resting voltage than that, so I don't know how low it will go. 

Although this drop-in has 3 modes, and is capable of almost 500 OTF lumens on high with a fresh 18650, it will take a major backseat to the Nailbender XM-L 90+CRI I just ordered. The Thrunite probably wouldn't get anymore use in my primary lights, so I think "vampire duty" will be it's fate, probably in a Solarforce L2M body.


----------



## RCM

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

For me, I have a 1xAAA Rayovac penlight that will run with almost no lumen drop on a dead AAA runs down to around .35 .40mV. For AA C and D size, I have a really cheap 2xD cell lantern with a joule thief circuit in that also works with a single cell if I want it too. Runs down to about .20mV since my family doesn't seem to like rechargeable batteries, I get all the dead cells and use them in my lights as nightlights.


----------



## eh4

RCM said:


> For me, I have a 1xAAA Rayovac penlight that will run with almost no lumen drop on a dead AAA runs down to around .35 .40mV. For AA C and D size, I have a really cheap 2xD cell lantern with a joule thief circuit in that also works with a single cell if I want it too. Runs down to about .20mV since my family doesn't seem to like rechargeable batteries, I get all the dead cells and use them in my lights as nightlights.



Wow.
I gotta try one of those AAA Rayovac pen lights, sounds neat... If it's that good I might chop it up and mod it to feed any size single alkaline batteries to, don't use many AAA around here.


----------



## RCM

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

There is also a AA version, might have to pick one up to try...


----------



## lampeDépêche

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



RCM said:


> For me, I have a 1xAAA Rayovac penlight that will run with almost no lumen drop on a dead AAA runs down to around .35 .40mV



Thanks, RCM. Are you referring to the 

"BRSLEDPEN-B Brilliant Solutions LED Pen Light"

that I find for sale on a certain on-line retailer? Ugly sucker, but if it's regulated that well then I might drop the $6.00 for one.


----------



## davidwestonh

*Re: Battery Vampires*



angelofwar said:


> I use 2 "dead" AA's for my Smith & Wesson Galaxy (Red LEDS)
> 1 "dead" AA on my Gerber Recon
> And 2 "dead" cr123's to run the 9 white LEDs on another S & W Galaxy (the 9 LED/xenon model)


I see the S&W Galaxy (red LEDS) is still available at the manufactures web site.
would you still consider a two AA a viable purchase at $14.95?


----------



## PapaLumen

*Re: Battery Vampires*

I use a thrunite ti for an AAA battery vampire, still going on sub 1v alkies.

Now looking for an AA vampire. I want simple, small. I was looking at the thrunite t10 and the updated t10, the saber1A. Does anyone have any experience using either of these as vampires? I think they are current regulated so maybe no good? Big pile of spent AA's here to use. Any other ideas? Thanks.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires*



PapaLumen said:


> I use a thrunite ti for an AAA battery vampire, still going on sub 1v alkies.
> 
> Now looking for an AA vampire. I want simple, small. I was looking at the thrunite t10 and the updated t10, the saber1A. Does anyone have any experience using either of these as vampires? I think they are current regulated so maybe no good? Big pile of spent AA's here to use. Any other ideas? Thanks.


My idea is to not use a nice light to drain alkaline batteries dry as the risk of leaking and ruining it cancels out saving a few watt hours of light that in the end you could just put a rechargeable in it for two recharges and get most of the "saved" electricity back and then some costing you about a penny in electricity. I drain batteries in throwaway lights and have had to clean the contacts and tubes of them a bunch of times over the years.


----------



## PapaLumen

Yeah, I've been waiting for that to happen, it check quite often or sometimes remove between uses. These are quite cheap lights, ok they are not $2 but they are not $70 like some aa lights. 

Still, I may just try an eBay cheapy now you've mentioned them lol. Cheers.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



PapaLumen said:


> Yeah, I've been waiting for that to happen, it check quite often or sometimes remove between uses. These are quite cheap lights, ok they are not $2 but they are not $70 like some aa lights.
> 
> Still, I may just try an eBay cheapy now you've mentioned them lol. Cheers.


If you use more than one cell you can use a boost circuit and drain batteries down to useless levels. the 1D energizer led lights can run off 2 cells if they are somewhat depleted they tend to hold up pretty well. Ive put 5 or 6 dead AAs in series and direct driven an LED with a variable resistor to drain batteries literally down to 0v and even reverse charged them they drained so low.


----------



## Mr Floppy

*Re: Battery Vampires*



Lynx_Arc said:


> My idea is to not use a nice light to drain alkaline batteries dry as the risk of leaking and ruining it cancels out saving a few watt hours of light



Wow, good thread necro. I agree with this statement. That's why I now use a Joule Thief to charge a NiMH from an alkaleak. Not the most efficient but easier to clean


----------



## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Recently I've decided to burn through the dozen or so used CR123a cells that I have. I've found that the Peak Logan works great as a battery vampire. My Logan has a brass insert replacing the QTC pill so it's a single mode light.


----------



## wjv

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

At work we have a dead battery bin.

I often grab AA batteries from that bin and stick them in my Fenix LD10, where they work quite well for a long time.


----------



## yoyoman

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I'm looking for a single cell vampire for CR123A cells that I harvest from my Malkoff Hound Dog N. I've been using a McGizmo AA light engine and it is fine. I want to start using an Oveready Mini Turbohead Surefire M2/XM-L2/DD head on a small body. This is a single mode light and should be a good option. I can easily switch the head to the bored SF C2 body for full output. However, it seems silly using such fine and expensive lights to get the last 20 cents out of a $1 dollar cell. I see the post above about the Peak Logan and that is an option - but it still seems silly to use such a fine light as a vampire. I looked at page 1 of this thread and some of the options are out of date (i.e. no longer available). What other options are out there for CR123A cells?


----------



## tonkem

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I use a Zebralight SC80 for my 123 cells. I know they are not available now, but they will soon be releasing the SC32, which is 123 cells only, whereas the SC80 is a 123/aa light. Patience will be required though, if waiting on a zebralight these days. Or try to find a used SC80 or SC31.


----------



## cland72

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

It appears the Sportac P60 drop in is an excellent battery vampire.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Eagtac™-LLC&p=4369736&viewfull=1#post4369736


----------



## LowLumen

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

My favorite vampire driver for 2AA or 1 CR123A is the BB Nexgen from Sandwich Shoppe. I run 300-500mA range with a low vf like LED XP-G2, XM-L2. Very efficient (90%+) for most of the battery life, then around 2Volts it will drop out of regulation and sip from the battery in the 50-120mA range. It will get usable light (10-40 lumen) from dead AA alkaline that won't run a remote or wall clock. It will not run on one cell and it will not run nimh to reverse charge. 

With CR123A lithium you have a much steeper voltage drop when the battery is going dead;
By the time it reaches 2 volts there is very little capacity left. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?67078-123-Battery-Shoot-Out


----------



## dss_777

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Which Malkoff MDC models would you think would work best to deplete AA and CR123A cells?


----------



## yoyoman

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I like the idea of using a Malkoff as a battery vampire. The MDC li-ion rechargeable LMH has an input voltage of 3.4 - 6 volts. Below 3.4 volts it drops out of regulation and runs direct drive. Do the CR123 MDC or AA MDC offer any advantages?

I'm thinking of using an M31L in a VME head and Vital Gear FB1 body. The M61 and M361 also run direct drive when they drop out of regulation. So similar question as above - does the M31L offer any advantage as a battery vampire?

Thank you for your help.


----------



## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



LowLumen said:


> My favorite vampire driver for 2AA or 1 CR123A is the BB Nexgen from Sandwich Shoppe. I run 300-500mA range with a low vf like LED XP-G2, XM-L2. Very efficient (90%+) for most of the battery life, then around 2Volts it will drop out of regulation and sip from the battery in the 50-120mA range. It will get usable light (10-40 lumen) from dead AA alkaline that won't run a remote or wall clock. It will not run on one cell and it will not run nimh to reverse charge.
> 
> With CR123A lithium you have a much steeper voltage drop when the battery is going dead;
> By the time it reaches 2 volts there is very little capacity left.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?67078-123-Battery-Shoot-Out


The Sandwich Shoppe's Mad Max drivers do a better job at battery vampirism than the BB Nexgen does. The MM will suck down a single alkaline battery pretty far whereas the BB Nexgen won't even light up. I still believe that my old standby, the Nite Ize 3-LED MiniMag drop-in, is one of the best battery vampires out there with the Peak lights giving them a good run as well.


----------



## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I've been trying to burn through some alkaline AAA cells lately and I've found that the 4Sevens Preon 1 will turn on in low mode then go slightly brighter on medium with batteries that won't even light my Peak Eiger. Likewise, I get light from my ThruNite Ti, but, this one is moonlight only so I can't test the higher mode. I'm running these cells so low I'm worried about leakage. Only the Ti gets these ultra drained cells now.


----------



## reppans

PCC said:


> ....I'm running these cells so low I'm worried about leakage. Only the Ti gets these ultra drained cells now.



Use AAA>AA adaptors and run them dry in sub-lumen AA lights. The plastic adaptors will protect the light if the cell pops, and the selection of sub-/low- lumen AA lights to run them is much wider than AAA lights.


----------



## think2x

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



yoyoman said:


> The M61 and M361 also run direct drive when they drop out of regulation. So similar question as above - does the M31L offer any advantage as a battery vampire?
> 
> Thank you for your help.



I have a Jetbeam BC10 modded to XP-G2 for a vampire. It is currently running from a 2.295V primary cr123. I took that cell out and put it in my 1xcr123 Lego 3P with M61LL XP-G2 and it would not light. The BC10 also works with a single AA so it has a low voltage driver like the M31 series. IMO that tells me the malkoff M31 series is a better vampire choice.


----------



## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



reppans said:


> Use AAA>AA adaptors and run them dry in sub-lumen AA lights. The plastic adaptors will protect the light if the cell pops, and the selection of sub-/low- lumen AA lights to run them is much wider than AAA lights.


Thats what I'm doing with the ThruNite T10: I'm using it with a brass adapter that I had made last year. That adapter was a battery holder that doubles as a AAA to AA adapter that I messed up when making it. The Nite Ize Mini-Mag triple drop-in fitted to my old Tekna is my current best AA vampire, but, that's because I can't find my daughter's MiNi AA to compare it to.


----------



## reppans

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



PCC said:


> Thats what I'm doing with the ThruNite T10: I'm using it with a brass adapter that I had made last year. That adapter was a battery holder that doubles as a AAA to AA adapter that I messed up when making it.



LOL... I'd personally rather ruin the T10 - your adaptor is too nice . Use plastic 1$ adapters for vampire testing.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I think I've said this before maybe in another thread but to get more out of your batteries use a one cell boost circuit with 2 cells that are depleted down to 1.0v or less. You can get the batteries to about half the voltage that the same circuit can do with one cell and that usually depletes batteries to about 0.5v which essentially leaves them with less than 1% power left. The cheapest way to do this is to use PR base dropins from something like 1D energizer LED lights and put them in a 2 cell plastic host. This makes for easier cleanup or just throw away the host when it gets leaked in.


----------



## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



reppans said:


> LOL... I'd personally rather ruin the T10 - your adaptor is too nice . Use plastic 1$ adapters for vampire testing.


Nah, it's easier for me to make another adapter than to make a replacement body.


----------



## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> I think I've said this before maybe in another thread but to get more out of your batteries use a one cell boost circuit with 2 cells that are depleted down to 1.0v or less. You can get the batteries to about half the voltage that the same circuit can do with one cell and that usually depletes batteries to about 0.5v which essentially leaves them with less than 1% power left. The cheapest way to do this is to use PR base dropins from something like 1D energizer LED lights and put them in a 2 cell plastic host. This makes for easier cleanup or just throw away the host when it gets leaked in.


You're almost guaranteed to get a leaking battery if you do this.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



PCC said:


> You're almost guaranteed to get a leaking battery if you do this.


It may increase the chance of leakage but running a light in firefly mode that drains it down to the same voltage that leaks would be more costly of an issue. If a fancy $20+ light gets alkaleaked in you have to clean it or replace it and if a $2 light has the same issue you can toss it in the trash and get another one 10 times for the same price.


----------



## yoyoman

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Update. CR123s harvested from a Malkoff Hound Dog MD3. The one that went into the McGizmo AA Haiku with 123 pak seems to have been sucked dry. Took it out and tried it in other lights and they wouldn't even glow. The cell in the MDC li-ion is still putting out light - it didn't get as much use as the AA Haiku and we'll see what the cell does in other lights when it isn't enough for the MDC. Testing continues and I'll get an M31LL soon.


----------



## Crenshaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Hi Everyone,
The vampire thread is back! risen from the dead! or something like that :candle::wave:

First off, sorry for my long absence to CPF, I've been lurking on and off, but never had the time to update this thread properly. I've now got a nice excel file that's keeping all this information. 

Thanks for all the contributions, if I've missed out any, please just let me know.. or better yet, re post it in this format:

Brand-Light Battery Type Battery Configuration

That will ensure the clearest information

Crenshaw


----------



## LanthanumK

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I would not consider the Foursevens Quark Mini MA to be a battery vampire after a runtime test on low, it shuts off at 0.8V. The Fenix E01, that's another story...


----------



## think2x

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



yoyoman said:


> Testing continues and I'll get an M31LL soon.




I just received my M31LL and tested it tonight. 2.295V cell started out @ 0.115A and leveled @0.080A in 30 seconds. Pulled cell out and straight to tester @ 1.490V and slow climb back up. It mimics my JETbeam BC10.

IMO The BC10/BA10 are one of the best cheaper vampire lights. I'm pretty sure they share the same circuit because the BC10 lights up fine from a single alkaline also.

EDIT: Also to note, The same cell test in these went into my Streamlight Twin Task 1L and it pulled 0.038A and still has useable output.


----------



## yoyoman

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I just received my M31L 219B. Using a cell harvested from my Malkoff Hound Dog MD3, it provides useable output. Need to compare (i.e. switch cells) with a Peak Eiger 123 XP-G2 CW mule from Oveready. (Sorry, but I'm not able to do the measurements like think2x did so my testing and comparisons are subjective.)


----------



## yoyoman

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I've been using the Peak Logan 123 with XP-G2 mule head from Oveready as a vampire for CR123 cells harvested from a Malkoff Hound Dog MD3. Took some time, but sucked the CR123 dry. Had useful light for a long time - great for navigating around the house at night.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Been looking for some lights that will work with near dead batteries, especially since i got a bunch of alkalines that are sitting getting no use. I have been using them in one of my cheap plastic flashlights so at least they would get some use.

Another great way to use your dead batteries is in some weather clocks or transmitters. Got old AA and AAA's working in my Oregon Scientific station. I have to keep it out of the bathroom otherwise too much condensation will stop the weather station from working but otherwise it works great on dead batteries .


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



MidnightDistortions said:


> Been looking for some lights that will work with near dead batteries, especially since i got a bunch of alkalines that are sitting getting no use. I have been using them in one of my cheap plastic flashlights so at least they would get some use.
> 
> Another great way to use your dead batteries is in some weather clocks or transmitters. Got old AA and AAA's working in my Oregon Scientific station. I have to keep it out of the bathroom otherwise too much condensation will stop the weather station from working but otherwise it works great on dead batteries .



I used to be interested in sucking the last milliwatt out of alkalines till I had to deal with the leaks and now I don't recommend anyone using anything that can be damaged by leaking alkaline batteries to suck the last bit out of them. If you think about it the miniscule amount of power saved can be replaced by charging an eneloop just 1 time. I have cheap sub $3 lights I use to suck most of the power from used alkalines then I just toss them not worrying about the extra 5 hours at sub 1 lumen levels I could get out of it.


----------



## yoyoman

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

My application is related to lithium primary CR123 cells that I harvest from a Malkoff Hound Dog on an MD3 body. The cells are not a dime a dozen and have a much lower risk of leaking. I get a very useful output and runtime. I'm quite pleased with this set up.


----------



## gravelmonkey

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



yoyoman said:


> My application is related to lithium primary CR123 cells that I harvest from a Malkoff Hound Dog on an MD3 body. The cells are not a dime a dozen and have a much lower risk of leaking. I get a very useful output and runtime. I'm quite pleased with this set up.



Are you using the Peak Logan with the QTC? I've tested my 17500 Logan with dead alkalines; I wouldn't call the last few hours of light useable unless you were trapped in a cave or something! On dead alkaleaks QTC allowed a choice of dim to barely glowing, so I took it out.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> I used to be interested in sucking the last milliwatt out of alkalines till I had to deal with the leaks and now I don't recommend anyone using anything that can be damaged by leaking alkaline batteries to suck the last bit out of them. If you think about it the miniscule amount of power saved can be replaced by charging an eneloop just 1 time. I have cheap sub $3 lights I use to suck most of the power from used alkalines then I just toss them not worrying about the extra 5 hours at sub 1 lumen levels I could get out of it.



I can agree with that, alkaleaks are messy and not worth using. That's why i only still use them in electronics that are on their way out anyway. The weather station i have.. while it's still useful does not transmit the data from the sensor. I took poor care of both the station and the sensor but they work so i don't really care if alkalines leak in those devices, plus the acid should travel away from the device so i'm not really worried about that. The same would be said for any cheap electronic product that is easily replaceable, but it is probably cheaper and better to get Eneloops that would probably outlive (or stop working due to old age) the device it's running with their low drain. But it's great for experiments and on top of that i can hold off on buying another $40 16 pack of Eneloops until i need them and i won't have to worry about my stock of batteries all going out at the same time or similar times. That will probably be the case with the Eneloops i got, but i got high capacity batteries for that . Eventually i won't ever have to see an alkaline ever again, i won't ever buy them for sure, other than the smoke/carbon dioxide detectors. The less of them i have the better.


----------



## AnAppleSnail

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



MidnightDistortions said:


> Eventually i won't ever have to see an alkaline ever again, i won't ever buy them for sure, other than the smoke/carbon dioxide detectors. The less of them i have the better.



I built a mini-mag mod that consumes about 6 mA from fresh Alkaleaks, about 4 mA from fresh Eneloops, and runs in direct drive. Does this qualify as a Battery Vampire?

XT-E Mini Mag Lite post on CPF. If not, thanks for reading. You guys seem to really prefer single-cell vampires, for flexibility in using old cells.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



AnAppleSnail said:


> I built a mini-mag mod that consumes about 6 mA from fresh Alkaleaks, about 4 mA from fresh Eneloops, and runs in direct drive. Does this qualify as a Battery Vampire?
> 
> XT-E Mini Mag Lite post on CPF. If not, thanks for reading. You guys seem to really prefer single-cell vampires, for flexibility in using old cells.



I don't know how much mA a stock mini-mag uses, i never did the math.. but your mod sounds pretty low for mA consumption.. how many hours do you get out of the light? Single-cell vampire lights and other devices is generally better to avoid driving a weaker cell into cell reversal and with alkalines they can leak when driven into cell reversal. NiMH batteries will just degrade faster. As i said though the devices that i still use alkalines for are not really all that important and i think the low current prevents the weaker battery from overdischarge, none of the batteries are doing that as of yet all seem to be producing at least 1 volt or a bit lower, last time i checked the lowest battery voltage was around 0.89 volts.


----------



## yoyoman

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

No QTC in my Peak Logan 123. I do have a momentary switch on it.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



MidnightDistortions said:


> I don't know how much mA a stock mini-mag uses, i never did the math.. but your mod sounds pretty low for mA consumption.. how many hours do you get out of the light? Single-cell vampire lights and other devices is generally better to avoid driving a weaker cell into cell reversal and with alkalines they can leak when driven into cell reversal. NiMH batteries will just degrade faster. As i said though the devices that i still use alkalines for are not really all that important and i think the low current prevents the weaker battery from overdischarge, none of the batteries are doing that as of yet all seem to be producing at least 1 volt or a bit lower, last time i checked the lowest battery voltage was around 0.89 volts.


I think a stock minimag incan is in the range of 500ma, the older led minimag is about 400ma or so. A decent led can be direct driven by 2AA batteries with alkalines being a lot brighter than nimh. 5ma is about 1/4 the nominal current input of a single 5mm white LED and if an alkaline AA has about 2500mah a 5ma current should give you about 500 hours runtime or about 3 weeks but in reality it may be nearly twice that as the voltage drops on cells unregulated circuits reduce output and 5 drops to 4 to 3 even down to less than 1ma which depending on the led could put out useful light still. My first battery drainer was a cheap 4AA battery holder, a variable resistor, and a single 5mm LED. I would put an ammeter inline and adjust it down to about 4ma and when it started getting too dim I would crank the variable resistor. I than added another 4AA holder in series and could run 6-8AAs and then take a voltmeter and measure the individual cell voltages when they got under 0.3v I would take them out and dispose of them.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> I think a stock minimag incan is in the range of 500ma, the older led minimag is about 400ma or so. A decent led can be direct driven by 2AA batteries with alkalines being a lot brighter than nimh. 5ma is about 1/4 the nominal current input of a single 5mm white LED and if an alkaline AA has about 2500mah a 5ma current should give you about 500 hours runtime or about 3 weeks but in reality it may be nearly twice that as the voltage drops on cells unregulated circuits reduce output and 5 drops to 4 to 3 even down to less than 1ma which depending on the led could put out useful light still. My first battery drainer was a cheap 4AA battery holder, a variable resistor, and a single 5mm LED. I would put an ammeter inline and adjust it down to about 4ma and when it started getting too dim I would crank the variable resistor. I than added another 4AA holder in series and could run 6-8AAs and then take a voltmeter and measure the individual cell voltages when they got under 0.3v I would take them out and dispose of them.



Thanks for that clarification . That helps out quite a bit, though i don't think you could get much light out of it, maybe unless you do some mods.

That's a pretty nifty setup though, i was actually planning on doing something like that and maybe hook up a string of LEDs that i could use old NiMHs and Alkalines on. I already have a setup but it's hooked up to a wall outlet, doesn't do much if the power goes out, i'd rather have a battery hooked up so i could get some light with a flick of a switch.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



MidnightDistortions said:


> Thanks for that clarification . That helps out quite a bit, though i don't think you could get much light out of it, maybe unless you do some mods.
> 
> That's a pretty nifty setup though, i was actually planning on doing something like that and maybe hook up a string of LEDs that i could use old NiMHs and Alkalines on. I already have a setup but it's hooked up to a wall outlet, doesn't do much if the power goes out, i'd rather have a battery hooked up so i could get some light with a flick of a switch.


I have this remote controlled 4AA incan light that I've bought a diode for so I can connect it to a walwart and when the power goes out the batteries will automatically power it as long as the voltage is higher than the batteries via the AC power it shouldn't drain them any. If you wanted light from a switch you could easily just get a SPDT switch and have it toggle from a walwart to batteries.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> I have this remote controlled 4AA incan light that I've bought a diode for so I can connect it to a walwart and when the power goes out the batteries will automatically power it as long as the voltage is higher than the batteries via the AC power it shouldn't drain them any. If you wanted light from a switch you could easily just get a SPDT switch and have it toggle from a walwart to batteries.




Nice, i probably would have some sort of IR motion sensor that turns on when i move past that will automatically turn on the lights, though that might take up power from the batteries if i don't have a wallwart hooked up. In my experience some wallwarts have vampire drains that isn't costly but over time it racks up. Though i might just get something like this that way it would only be on when i am at home. I already shut off my surge protector that i have my PC, TV, cable modem ect... all hooked up to. Just doing that cut my electric bill $7 a month.

As i said it's probably not costly to do just that one wallwart but i definitely don't want it running when i am not at home, would be completely pointless and i am at home around 50% of the time.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



MidnightDistortions said:


> Nice, i probably would have some sort of IR motion sensor that turns on when i move past that will automatically turn on the lights, though that might take up power from the batteries if i don't have a wallwart hooked up. In my experience some wallwarts have vampire drains that isn't costly but over time it racks up. Though i might just get something like this that way it would only be on when i am at home. I already shut off my surge protector that i have my PC, TV, cable modem ect... all hooked up to. Just doing that cut my electric bill $7 a month.
> 
> As i said it's probably not costly to do just that one wallwart but i definitely don't want it running when i am not at home, would be completely pointless and i am at home around 50% of the time.


I've looked into IR motion sensor lights and almost all the ones that I've seen have a standby operating current in the 10+ma range which means when not in use they will drain batteries at 240mah a day. As for walwarts draining power you are focusing on them and not the appliance plugged into them as a walwart doesn't drain much if there isn't much power used. You have to calculate the power output of the walwart by associating it with the load on it and a light that isn't using any power most of the time plugged into one will probably cost only a few cents a month. I have these C7 lights that use 3 LEDs and are rated at costing about 75 cents a year to operate 24/7/365. A cable modem has a 5v 1A walwart or can use up to 5 watts of power so that over a day it would be 120watts and a month 3600 watts or about 3.6 KWH perhaps 50 cents while your PC can use more and a TV on standby could use 10-20 watts to use $7 a month would be approx 60KWH or mean you have about an 83 watt drain on that strip if electricity is 12 cents per KWH.


----------



## Timothybil

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I've got you all beat! I have one of the last Hurricane lamps that Surefire sold. This was back in the day when incandescent was king, and cells that wouldn't light a P60 anymore still had a reasonable amount of life left. The Hurricane lamp was a small square plastic case that would hold sixteen CR123a cells, eight up and eight down, in pairs. The lid had clips to hold it onto the case. The clips on one side were two stage, the first stage just held the lid on, the second stage made contact with a pair of cells to light the lamp. The lid also had eight small holes on the top aligned with the eight pairs of cells. When a pair of cells was totally drained, one could either move another pair into that position, or position the bulb over another pair by using a different hole. The bulb was one of those small molded center dome bulbs one used to find on cheap penlights. It was probably one or two lumens. The idea was to use whatever life was left in a pair of cells to light the much lighter load of the small bulb to use up the remainder of the cells. It was designed to be used in basically emergency power outage situations where any light would be appreciated.
With the advent of LEDs there usually isn't enough left in a pair of cells to light up the bulb. I may think about making an LED replacement for the incan bulb that is there. Any suggestions?


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Timothybil said:


> I've got you all beat! I have one of the last Hurricane lamps that Surefire sold. This was back in the day when incandescent was king, and cells that wouldn't light a P60 anymore still had a reasonable amount of life left. The Hurricane lamp was a small square plastic case that would hold sixteen CR123a cells, eight up and eight down, in pairs. The lid had clips to hold it onto the case. The clips on one side were two stage, the first stage just held the lid on, the second stage made contact with a pair of cells to light the lamp. The lid also had eight small holes on the top aligned with the eight pairs of cells. When a pair of cells was totally drained, one could either move another pair into that position, or position the bulb over another pair by using a different hole. The bulb was one of those small molded center dome bulbs one used to find on cheap penlights. It was probably one or two lumens. The idea was to use whatever life was left in a pair of cells to light the much lighter load of the small bulb to use up the remainder of the cells. It was designed to be used in basically emergency power outage situations where any light would be appreciated.
> With the advent of LEDs there usually isn't enough left in a pair of cells to light up the bulb. I may think about making an LED replacement for the incan bulb that is there. Any suggestions?



If it is a PR base bulb you can buy LED swap ins but beware that polarity can be an issue.


----------



## hyperloop

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Hi there, don't know if this has been posted already, apologies if it has. The Olight ST25 Baton has a moonlight mode which runs off AA cells which are depleted for other devices which need higher voltage. Cheers.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> I've looked into IR motion sensor lights and almost all the ones that I've seen have a standby operating current in the 10+ma range which means when not in use they will drain batteries at 240mah a day. As for walwarts draining power you are focusing on them and not the appliance plugged into them as a walwart doesn't drain much if there isn't much power used. You have to calculate the power output of the walwart by associating it with the load on it and a light that isn't using any power most of the time plugged into one will probably cost only a few cents a month. I have these C7 lights that use 3 LEDs and are rated at costing about 75 cents a year to operate 24/7/365. A cable modem has a 5v 1A walwart or can use up to 5 watts of power so that over a day it would be 120watts and a month 3600 watts or about 3.6 KWH perhaps 50 cents while your PC can use more and a TV on standby could use 10-20 watts to use $7 a month would be approx 60KWH or mean you have about an 83 watt drain on that strip if electricity is 12 cents per KWH.



Thanks for clearing that one up . I thought Walwarts themselves take up energy but it's nice to know they won't.. it's the appliance attached to it that would take up more energy to run. It probably would be more ideal to use a switch then have the IR motion sensors on, another idea would be a light sensor, if there's no light the lights would turn on. Again probably would have to find a way to shut it off, but since Walwarts do not take up much energy like you said, a setup to turn the lights on in an event the power goes out would be beneficial.  Would have to make sure the batteries are charged and working though


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



MidnightDistortions said:


> Thanks for clearing that one up . I thought Walwarts themselves take up energy but it's nice to know they won't.. it's the appliance attached to it that would take up more energy to run. It probably would be more ideal to use a switch then have the IR motion sensors on, another idea would be a light sensor, if there's no light the lights would turn on. Again probably would have to find a way to shut it off, but since Walwarts do not take up much energy like you said, a setup to turn the lights on in an event the power goes out would be beneficial.  Would have to make sure the batteries are charged and working though


I'm not saying they don't take up energy, without something plugged in they do take energy but a rather tiny amount perhaps a few cents a month or so. I have power outages taken care of mostly here in that I took these 3AA taplights and converted them to LEDs with a resistor connected across the switch to one end of the circuit so the light "glows" in the dark and I recharge them every few months to keep them glowing. For something like what you are saying the cost of running it off a walwart is miniscule and would save you time and the annoyance of having to recharge batteries often. I would suggest that if they were LED you could modify them to allow a constant amount of current to the LEDs enough to make them glow in the dark bright enough to find them could be added that draws only a few ma of current.


----------



## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> I'm not saying they don't take up energy, without something plugged in they do take energy but a rather tiny amount perhaps a few cents a month or so. I have power outages taken care of mostly here in that I took these 3AA taplights and converted them to LEDs with a resistor connected across the switch to one end of the circuit so the light "glows" in the dark and I recharge them every few months to keep them glowing. For something like what you are saying the cost of running it off a walwart is miniscule and would save you time and the annoyance of having to recharge batteries often. I would suggest that if they were LED you could modify them to allow a constant amount of current to the LEDs enough to make them glow in the dark bright enough to find them could be added that draws only a few ma of current.



Great idea! Plus it's most likely the crap batteries that i'll use, but for the most part i plan on designing one that will either charge the batteries or be able to remove the battery pack to hook up a fresh set set of charged batteries.


----------



## Timothybil

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> I'm not saying they don't take up energy, without something plugged in they do take energy but a rather tiny amount perhaps a few cents a month or so.


All wall warts waste energy in and of themselves. The process of changing voltage and converting from AC to DC is not 100% efficient at any time. When the attached device is drawing current, the losses to inefficiency are miniscule in comparison, and not worth worrying about. It is when there is no device connected, or the device is not drawing current that the inefficiency can be considered wasteful. The old, heavy, bulky wall warts that always felt warm to the touch used transformers for the voltage conversion, and even when idle there was voltage applied to the input side of the transformer. The magnetic fields that resulted cause the iron cores of the transformer to vibrate slightly, producing heat. The newer slim wall warts are all solid state, but are still always active and not 100% efficient.
To cope with this and minimize what are usually called 'parasitic' losses, one can find higher end power strips/surge strips with one of the outlets labeled 'Master'. It has circuitry that can sense when there is no load on that circuit, and power down the rest of the outlets until a load appears on the Master outlet again. These work great when a piece of electronic equipment has several other electronics associated with it, and they are not used for a significant portion of the day. With a parasitic loss of one or more watts per hour, this can add up to one or two dollars a month just for the association of equipment. Think of all the phone, tablet, iPod, cordless phone, battery charger, razor, etc. wall warts sitting around doing nothing for a majority of each day, and the losses add up.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Timothybil said:


> All wall warts waste energy in and of themselves. The process of changing voltage and converting from AC to DC is not 100% efficient at any time. When the attached device is drawing current, the losses to inefficiency are miniscule in comparison, and not worth worrying about. It is when there is no device connected, or the device is not drawing current that the inefficiency can be considered wasteful. The old, heavy, bulky wall warts that always felt warm to the touch used transformers for the voltage conversion, and even when idle there was voltage applied to the input side of the transformer. The magnetic fields that resulted cause the iron cores of the transformer to vibrate slightly, producing heat. The newer slim wall warts are all solid state, but are still always active and not 100% efficient.
> To cope with this and minimize what are usually called 'parasitic' losses, one can find higher end power strips/surge strips with one of the outlets labeled 'Master'. It has circuitry that can sense when there is no load on that circuit, and power down the rest of the outlets until a load appears on the Master outlet again. These work great when a piece of electronic equipment has several other electronics associated with it, and they are not used for a significant portion of the day. With a parasitic loss of one or more watts per hour, this can add up to one or two dollars a month just for the association of equipment. Think of all the phone, tablet, iPod, cordless phone, battery charger, razor, etc. wall warts sitting around doing nothing for a majority of each day, and the losses add up.


http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/6123/how-much-power-is-really-wasted-by-a-wall-wart

Most walwarts these days are electronic switching so energy use is negligible. I do however agree that leaving the heavy as a brick older ones plugged in with no load could rack up more but according to that article CEC certified ones draw less than a half watt and at 20 cents per KWH that translates to less than a dime each per month. I haven't done the math but charging batteries probably takes more power in a month than running the same device off a walwart and having it sit idle.


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## this_is_nascar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

In keeping in the spirit of this thread, my Fenix E01's are the lights that will fire on the least amount of voltage.


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## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



this_is_nascar said:


> In keeping in the spirit of this thread, my Fenix E01's are the lights that will fire on the least amount of voltage.



How much voltage will it go down to? I got some older NimH cells that have lower voltage that i could use that light for.


----------



## Greenbean

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

If I remember right the E01s are pretty much a direct drive 5mm LED, I pushed a bunch of 0000 steel wool into mine and twisted it to really smooth it out into a little flood lite. 

It will literally look like a small candle light days on end, try it!


----------



## flatline

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

The current generation of Eveready 1D, recognized by having both a reflector and a clicky, is a better vampire than the previous generations were. I've been getting 2-3 lumens output on a AA cell with an open circuit voltage less than 0.8v for the last month. And the beam and tint are also much better than the 2nd and 1st generation.

Saw a 2-pack on clearance at Walmart for $3 yesterday.

--flatline


----------



## bykfixer

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

A while ago I picked up a 1xaa Rayovac Essentials at a CVS drug store for like $5. It was a chromed alluminum number with ability to tailstand but came with a split ring so you can configure it to hang from a nail etc.

Came with a carbon zinc cell. It is a 19 lumen light stating 14 hour runtime on the supplied cell. 

That evening I set it on a mantle and retired for the night. Next morning it was still about as bright as the evening before. I turned it off and went to work. 

Repeated the process and the next morning it was still on but dim like a bic lighter. I turned it off and went to work.

Repeated the process. However at startup it burned bright again. And for like 2 hours. So I spent that evening starting it, letting it run until dim, which as each process it burned brightly less and less time with each cycle. 
When I retired that night it was dim again. I left it on and the next morning it was still going. So I left it going all day. 

Upon arriving home from work I turned it off and let it rest a few minutes. To my surprise at turn on it was bright again. Only a few minutes this time. But I spent the evening doing that process again and finally put the poor battery out of its misery before going to bed. 

Definitely one to have if you need a lot of runtime from a 1xaa.


Another one by Rayovac is a plastic 1xaaa that touts 3 lumens. It's a small pen light that uses a domed magnifier to multiply the output much like #112's and 222 bulbs do. Looks like 15 lumens but the runtime is days and days if need be. Great little light to read by or has enough punch to guide your path through the house at 2am (or when the all night generator is on holiday)


----------



## Greenbean

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

That’s cool man, 

I need to try that with my Fenix E01, 

Thanks for sharing that story.


----------



## aginthelaw

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

out of an irritating fight with boredom, i tested all my primary batteries this weekend discarding a few alkaleaks, and found 4 cr123a's that were under 3 volts. 2 in particular i used to see if they would even light up a flashlight, with 2.35 and 2.58v. i found a few not mentioned so far: the s1 and s1r baton both lit up and stayed on as well as the utorch s1. strangely enough, the h1 and h1r didn't light at all. the m10 maverick lit up but had noticeable flickkering. the niteye ec-r16 was dim and wouldn't change modes. fenix seems to have their act together with vampires as mentioned above. in addition, the cl09 camping light and e16 performed with decent lumens but also, did not change modes. the sirius m11r, the shiny version of mr. elfin, also came on dim, but didn't change modes. couldn't find my battery tube to test my v11r on cr123's, and my other version was modded so i didn't check that.

on another note, my neutron 1c, ra twisty, 120p, quark mini 123, mini ml, ml-x, atom and d25c, didn't light on these batteries. my foursevens mini mk II and otr m3 came on but went off within seconds. now if i can only find my sc32 and inova x5...

i have what i think is an sc30 which would blink but that's it, but the sc32 lit up and stayed lit on the low mode. my h53w even went so far as to give me medium mode. i'm happy.

rofis tr10 and partner c1 didn't light at all, though the indicator switch did blink like the eagle eye x1r. the partner c1 didn't acknowledge a battery with the indicator under the switch.


----------



## Greenbean

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have an X5, you got me wondering now! 

I need to see how it works with my “dead” CR123s. I just hate the tint on its LEDs though.


----------



## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

My X5 runs off of 123’s that will not light any other light I have. But my A2 old school is close to it for sucking juice. The leds will run for some time off of 123’s that are at 2.7-2.8.


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## LeanBurn

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Now a day all my dying alkaline 1AA cells go to my daughters Coast HP1. She leaves it on sometimes and falls asleep and so it seems like a fitting end.


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## MidnightDistortions

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I've been running a set of dead alkalines in my Fenix E25 on the lowest setting and the 2 cells is down to 0.53V! Resting is at 1.00v. Light isn't even dim.


----------



## bignc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



thermal guy said:


> My X5 runs off of 123’s that will not light any other light I have. But my A2 old school is close to it for sucking juice. The leds will run for some time off of 123’s that are at 2.7-2.8.



How close in voltage should a pair of cells be to vampire them in an A2? For safety i mean....


----------



## archimedes

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



bignc said:


> How close in voltage should a pair of cells be to vampire them in an A2? For safety i mean....



I use only single-cell setups for this purpose (intentionally running on empty)


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

A huge +1 on depleting single CR123's only, for safety considerations.

Although; a number of years ago, we got a poster who was trying out a single-cell Malkoff M30 (~5v max:sweatwith 2 depleted CR123's. After some discussion here on the forum, he had second thoughts & decided it just wasn't worth it.


----------



## Greenbean

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Now I gotta find my old little Fenix single CR123, 

You guys got me worried about my X5 :-(


----------



## eh4

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I took a 9v battery apart, that came from beeping smoke detector, and put one of the
AAAA cells into my nichia L3 L10 with some tin foil spacer. 
I neglected to check the voltage but the firefly mode was still dimly glowing the next day, and would also restart when turned off, after a delay of several seconds.


----------



## flatline

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

My Fenix e12 will fire up Low mode on AA's that read below 0.9v on my meter. Haven't tested yet to see how long it lasts.

--flatline


----------



## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



bignc said:


> How close in voltage should a pair of cells be to vampire them in an A2? For safety i mean....



Yes it’s “safer” to run cells down in a single cell light do to different cell voltage but the chances of something going wrong is close to zero even when not doing this if you run your flashlight completely dead with two cells that started the same there will a high difference in volts between the cells. At least that’s what I see in my lights.


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## archimedes

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I would disagree, in that even two cells with similar open-circuit voltage, can differ significantly in other factors which may increase the risks involved ( even if they have been "run together in the same light the whole time" ) .... To give just one example, is heat, as the battery closer to the emitter may have gotten much hotter over the course of use than the other one.


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## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I would not presume to debate logic with you my friend 😁


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## archimedes

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your &quot;dead&quot; cells to, listing..*

Ha ! 

I do think the chance of a problem is probably pretty small, but not zero. The issue is, however, if things go badly ... results may be catastrophic.

There are threads here on CPF discussing this exact situation, including some rather negative outcomes.


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## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



thermal guy said:


> Yes it’s “safer” to run cells down in a single cell light do to different cell voltage but the chances of something going wrong is close to zero even when not doing this if you run your flashlight completely dead with two cells that started the same there will a high difference in volts between the cells. [...]





archimedes said:


> I would disagree, in that even two cells with similar open-circuit voltage, can differ significantly in other factors which may increase the risks involved ( even if they have been "run together in the same light the whole time" ) .... To give just one example, is heat, as the battery closer to the emitter may have gotten much hotter over the course of use than the other one.





thermal guy said:


> I would not presume to debate logic with you my friend 


Hmm, I tried to parse that crazy sentence by TG above; I thought I knew what he was saying until ~2/3 through, then started thinking the opposite & gave up in confusion. So if Arch could figure it out, he's one up on me as well ...


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## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

You made me google parse! 😂😂😂


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## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

And what you call crazy I call normal. I think 🤔. 😁


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## CREEXHP70LED

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Hello guys, I don't have time right now to read this entire thread right now (blame hurricane Dorian) but I am looking for a single 123A cell light to vampire my 123A cells. (Actually, I use single 123A lights to find out which one of the two or three cells in my P3X, P2X, or Charlie dropped voltage so much that my light went dim on me.)

Does the Malkoff MDC HA 1CR123 Neutral flashlight work okay for this or the Malkoff MDC HA SHO?

I am tired of my Surefires always dropping a cell and going much dimmer quite often. In fact it just did it again today, and I do not want to throw out 2 decent cells. 

I used to use a Olight Baton for this reason but I sold it a couple months ago. Looking to upgrade to a nicer light. If the Malkoffs are decent and will drain a cell to a reasonable amount I will go that route.


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## archimedes

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your &quot;dead&quot; cells to, listing..*

Peak is my answer for that. Output will eventually drop like a rock, but it will run just shy of forever.


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## CREEXHP70LED

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your &quot;dead&quot; cells to, listing..*



archimedes said:


> Peak is my answer for that. Output will eventually drop like a rock, but it will run just shy of forever.





I looked, but can you recommend a specific model? Thank you sir!


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## archimedes

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your &quot;dead&quot; cells to, listing..*



CREEXHP70LED said:


> I looked, but can you recommend a specific model? Thank you sir!


I use the Logan 17500 (with a spacer)


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## scout24

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



CREEXHP70LED said:


> Hello guys, I don't have time right now to read this entire thread right now (blame hurricane Dorian) but I am looking for a single 123A cell light to vampire my 123A cells. (Actually, I use single 123A lights to find out which one of the two or three cells in my P3X, P2X, or Charlie dropped voltage so much that my light went dim on me.)
> 
> Does the Malkoff MDC HA 1CR123 Neutral flashlight work okay for this or the Malkoff MDC HA SHO?
> 
> I am tired of my Surefires always dropping a cell and going much dimmer quite often. In fact it just did it again today, and I do not want to throw out 2 decent cells.
> 
> I used to use a Olight Baton for this reason but I sold it a couple months ago. Looking to upgrade to a nicer light. If the Malkoffs are decent and will drain a cell to a reasonable amount I will go that route.



Is there a certain level of output you're looking for initially?


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## PCC

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Some time ago I bought an early Fenix E10 head from a member here that I machined a body for. It runs only one mode (presumably in the head loose condition on a regular E10. That light will produce light on batteries that the Nite Ize three LED Mini-Maglite upgrade won’t light up with. That Nite Ize upgrade was my go-to battery vampire until I found this one.


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## flatline

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I've recently discovered that CR123 cells that won't light my other lights will still get long run times with my Malkoff M31LL. Don't know why it didn't occur to me to try it sooner.


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## doctordun

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I came across this thread and it's interesting reading.

My question is, why do I want to drain my 123 batteries to total depletion, other than to say I did and feel good about using it up?

When the battery no longer powers my carry light, I no longer need it. 
If I place it in one of my other lights, that will burn low enough to deplete the battery to the end, I would never use that light, knowing the battery will fail at any time.
Nor do I use a light that I can't use to it's fullest, from low to high.
The battery might as well go in the trash. It's not like I have lights burning all around my home.


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## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

That’s a fair question. I guess it’s for worse case scenarios. You know you have used up your 300 plus batteries and all you have is partially full batteries to use. You will still have a light on hand that can run off them.I do this with a battery vampire unit I got on here. Just a led a simple board two magnets and a piece of wire. Works great but only with batteries under 3 volts. But if I’m honest in all reality I will never need this but it’s nice to have.


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## bigburly912

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I have a battery vampire similar to the one described above mounted to the side of my fridge. (Mine is basically a slightly lower powered fenix e01 per the maker) I use every batter that my children use up in their toys in the said vampire to light up my stove and cabinets at night so that I don’t wake up the children/wife/ whoever passed out in the living room. It’s excellent for this and it will run batteries for hours that no other device will run. Served me well joe for many months and would work great in an emergency situation on the batteries that have been used up by my other light sources.


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## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

With this thread being started in 2008, what's noteworthy is that CR123's had far more 'market share' compared to the viable alternatives that have become popular since then: decent outputs from 2xAA NiMH LSD's, and spectacular outputs from LiIon rechargeables.

A good 'battery vampire' has a long period of dim & declining output - with termination only defined by the light output being too low to be usable.
It shouldn't go out without providing ample warning first, and may _in some practical sense_ not actually 'go out' - i.e. there being little point to continue tying up a good flashlight with a primary cell of near-zero remaining capacity.

I still run through a few CR123's from time to time so maintain some personal interest in this topic; although now having a number of quality LiIons, I can simply use low modes for similar result but with less hassle. :shrug:

Edit: Having a few lights that are candidates for this application, would still IMO be a good idea for a 'long emergency' after the LiIons become run down.
Dozens of hours of low light from a near-depleted CR123 could suffice for quite a while, leaving the higher-output 'barn burners' available for the more immediate emergencies.


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## xxo

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I can see the appeal for vampires for extended power outages or just to get as much use out of primary batteries in non-critical use around the house.

The Streamlight compact II should make for a good CR123 vampire, since it also runs on AA's, it should take the Voltage down very low and it has low modes that consume very little power. I also found that the 2C Mag ML50 runs pretty well on a near depleted CR123 in an adapter, particularly in eco mode.


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## this_is_nascar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your &amp;quot;dead&amp;quot; cells to, listing..*

I've always looked at a light like this as if it was the only one on my person and I was stuck in an emergency or survival situation. A light that I'd trust with my life. In my 20+ years of being a flashlight enthusiast, only two lights have ever been in that class for me.

Arc AAA
Fenix E01

They would fire from a cell and provide useable light from a cell with less than a half-volt of power.

I'm hoping the Sofirn C01 will be the next light added to this list. It's too new, to me, to tell as of right now.


Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## bykfixer

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your &amp;quot;dead&amp;quot; cells to, listi*

I tried batteries that would not light my Maglite XL100 and 2 out of 3 lit the Sophia C01. The 3rd would not light an E01 either. I did not check the power remaining in any of them.


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## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I agree with others here in that the usefulness of battery vampires has waned. The amount of power saved from a pile depleted primaries can be dwarfed by the power in but maybe 1 or 2 lithium ion batteries that are charged up and the cost required to recharge batteries is a fraction of a cent perhaps thus making the savings of the effort of the battery vampire... next to nothing and essentially unable to pay for the light/device used to do so one may be better suited to toss the depleted cells and invest in another 18350 or 18650 battery and/or light.

With tool batteries now lithium ion based and all over the place a lot of us have these batteries lying around most of them fully charged there is a tremendous amount of power in them sitting there that can be harnessed along with 18650 based power banks to charge smart devices plus some bluetooth speakers and flashlights with power bank features and even the flashlight app on smart phones depending on depleted primaries and battery vampires is.... not needed at all we just need to prepare to use these other options like buying USB lighting solutions and LED lights for tool battery sets even USB adapters for them.


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## xxo

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I think if you use Cr123's and you have something that will vampire them, why not? Alkalines are another story because they leak, especially when you vampire them - not worth it unless it is an emergency.


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## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Lynx_Arc said:


> [...] the savings of the effort of the battery vampire... next to nothing and essentially unable to pay for the light/device used to do so one may be better suited to toss the depleted cells and invest in another 18350 or 18650 battery and/or light.


LA, I agreed with virtually everything in your post but only wanted to briefly dwell on what I've quoted above; it's not purchasing a battery vampire flashlight per se, but identifying which light in a current inventory is good for BV 'backup' status.

Some of my all-time favorite lights are my SureFire L1's; knowing that particular model is a good BV means that it has another fuel option in an emergency, i.e. depleted CR123's from my headlamp, buck-driver Malkoff dropins such as the M61/91's, or other lights. :thumbsup:

Edit:
Now I'm curious; thinking that I could perhaps do a full run of my Malkoff M61 on two fresh CR123's; then see what sort of light my (boost-circuit) SF L1 could produce from those cells.
Any other L1 fans out there, chime in to let me know if that info would be worth it; frankly I think the M61 would drain those two cells down pretty low to begin with, as its voltage cutout is most likely pretty low to begin with ...


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## this_is_nascar

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I didn't think anyone used CR123 cells any longer.


Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## michaex

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Not cold enough in NJ?


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## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



this_is_nascar said:


> I didn't think anyone used CR123 cells any longer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


 
God. I have 50 in stock at any given time. And that’s way down from what I used to hold.


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## Lynx_Arc

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



Kestrel said:


> LA, I agreed with virtually everything in your post but only wanted to briefly dwell on what I've quoted above; it's not purchasing a battery vampire flashlight per se, but identifying which light in a current inventory is good for BV 'backup' status.
> 
> Some of my all-time favorite lights are my SureFire L1's; knowing that particular model is a good BV means that it has another fuel option in an emergency, i.e. depleted CR123's from my headlamp, buck-driver Malkoff dropins such as the M61/91's, or other lights. :thumbsup:
> 
> Edit:
> Now I'm curious; thinking that I could perhaps do a full run of my Malkoff M61 on two fresh CR123's; then see what sort of light my (boost-circuit) SF L1 could produce from those cells.
> Any other L1 fans out there, chime in to let me know if that info would be worth it; frankly I think the M61 would drain those two cells down pretty low to begin with, as its voltage cutout is most likely pretty low to begin with ...


I wonder what various 18650 lights would do on very low modes that can use a pair of CR123s.... could be the ultimate cure for excess batteries best of both worlds IMO.


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## Kestrel

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I remember back in the day where someone proposed using a pair of depleted CR123's and a Malkoff M30 for 'vampire duty'.

Not a bad idea _in theory_ duh2, as that low-voltage boost module would suck every drop of life out of a pair of cells, and /hopefully/ not  if the cells were already drained enough to begin with ...


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## bykfixer

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

An E1 would certainly drain a battery way way down. An incan Tekna Splashlight too.


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## scout24

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

I'd like to think the Fraz Labs QTC lights belong here. No electronic overhead, just qtc, a cell, and an emitter. I have a Tiny Nugget designed for 18350 use, but it makes a good amount of light on a primary 123 cell. Next one my HDS decides is run down, I'll try in the Nugget.

Thermal Guy- That cell count hit close to home.


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## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Henry’s older stuff “U42,U60” were fantastic battery drainers. Would go down to much lower voltage then the new ones will.

Scout: I got 24 hours off of a primary 123 battery in my tiny tank. Battery ended at at 2.59 volts. It was still plenty bright at 24 hours and thinking it would of gone much longer but wanted my new toy back😁


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## bigburly912

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*



scout24 said:


> I'd like to think the Fraz Labs QTC lights belong here. No electronic overhead, just qtc, a cell, and an emitter. I have a Tiny Nugget designed for 18350 use, but it makes a good amount of light on a primary 123 cell. Next one my HDS decides is run down, I'll try in the Nugget.
> 
> Thermal Guy- That cell count hit close to home.



Wait. I missed that and should have tried it myself. I had no clue I could run my nugget on 123


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## thermal guy

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Yup. Runs at reduced output but for a long time.

Ran for 24 hours before I shut it down. And that was starting on high . I’d imagine with a fresh cell and dumbed down to a lower output she’d go for a long long time.


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## scout24

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

Thanks for the info TG. I'll have to give it a try, I should have a depleted 123 here this week. :thumbsup:


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## bykfixer

*Re: Battery Vampires - Lights that you can feed your "dead" cells to, listing..*

If you have a P60 converted to a Yuji that dude can vampire a 123 a good long time. Hopefully nobody said that already. 
I have an R30 converted in a fivemega 3P body for just that.


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