# H1N1 Vaccine Toxic?



## Larbo (Sep 17, 2009)

Is this for real??

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18991151/H1N1-Flu-Vaccine-is-Toxic


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## greenLED (Sep 17, 2009)

I'll trust something like that when it comes from a peer-reviewed source, not some internet Jane-Doe.

BTW, 4 different pharmaceutical companies are testing H1N1 vaccine here in Costa Rica. One has already finished their field trials, and AFIAK is seeking (or has already received) approval for its deployment. No complications whatsover have been reported. 

The other 3 companies are still testing.


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## Illum (Sep 17, 2009)

I've always been skeptical with vaccines, especially for the viral flu

keep in mind that vaccines are created from a cultured "modified" strain of a disease where it is stable enough that the body can synthesize and produce antibodies. 

While this will work adequately for bacterial diseases...a virus mutates about once a month or two by minutely altering their sugar shell...how effective if a modified strain that's kept in stasis during the entire time of its development becomes questionable.

If a persons immune system is already weak either from an existing sickness or recovering from a previous one...a vaccine may put them in a worse position than their existing conditions, but it varies from person to person.


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## MarNav1 (Sep 17, 2009)

Larbo said:


> Is this for real??
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18991151/H1N1-Flu-Vaccine-is-Toxic


Yes it is for real. There are many sources on this including peer reviewed ones. Many wont agree with me, that's fine. There is more I could say about this, if you want a couple links send me a PM as I'm not going to debate this here. Do not take this under any circumstance Larbo. Your risking your health on it.


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## jake25 (Sep 18, 2009)

Of course vaccines are bad, especially since here in the US we use avirulent strains. This isn't news.


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## thelightdude (Sep 18, 2009)

jake25 said:


> Of course vaccines are bad, especially since here in the US we use avirulent strains. This isn't news.



"I beg to differ sir". - Val Kilmer Tombstone



What about the polio vaccine?

George Washington protected his troops from smallpox in 1777 using a forerunner of vaccination called “variolation”.


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## Sub_Umbra (Sep 18, 2009)

Is it toxic? Who knows?

There are a few things that *are known* that pose serious things to think about.

I recall the big Swine Flu scare of 1976. A vaccine was developed and everyone was urged to get the shot. In the end *not one person died from the Swine Flu* but the vaccine did kill people. That didn't quite work out as planned.

There is also the issue of lead time. Without getting into conspiracies it is very easy to find credible scientific sources who state that in the time it takes to develop and produce usable quantities of any flu vaccine there is a high probability that the virus will have mutated and will no longer be affected by the vaccine.

That seems like kind of a double whammie -- on the one side the folks who make the vaccine have no idea how many will die from unintended side effects they inadvertantly built into their product and if that's not bad enough the target virus may have mutated to the extent that it will have no significant impact anyway. Okaaaaay.

I'll be passing on the Swine Flu vaccine. Even in the 21st century there are a plethora of long shots that are more attractive to bet on.


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## jake25 (Sep 19, 2009)

thelightdude said:


> "I beg to differ sir". - Val Kilmer Tombstone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I meant present day today.


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## ducat (Sep 19, 2009)

I live in the UK and get offered a free flu jab every year as I have heart disease and diabetes, and I've never refused.

And this year will be no different.

Take the jab.

Loads of people over here have already died from this disease, and it's not a pleasant death, with people drowning from the liquid produced from their own lungs.

Against a one in a million chance the inoculation will harm me, I'll take that risk.


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## thelightdude (Sep 19, 2009)

jake25 said:


> I meant present day today.



By 2004, cases of poliomyelitis in Africa had been reduced to just a small number of isolated regions in the western portion of the continent, with sporadic cases elsewhere. However, recent opposition to vaccination campaigns has evolved, often relating to fears that the vaccine might induce sterility. The disease has since resurged in Nigeria and in several other African nations, which epidemiologists cite is due to refusals by certain local populations to allow their children to receive the polio vaccine.

Over 100,000 troops have been given smallpox vaccine in the last 6 years.

I think these two examples qualify as today.

All children are currently required to get polio vaccinations upon entering school in Illinois.


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## Vesper (Sep 19, 2009)

This is the kind of thing that makes it feel like the 70's again. We have the feeling the "real" testing of this vaccine will occur when it hits the mass populace.

Link between swine flu jab and deadly syndrome will be probed
Neurologists have been ordered to monitor whether new swine flu vaccinations could trigger a deadly nerve disease.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/s...u-jab-and-deadly-syndrome-will-be-probed.html


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## thelightdude (Sep 19, 2009)

Sub_Umbra said:


> Is it toxic? Who knows?
> 
> There are a few things that *are known* that pose serious things to think about.
> 
> ...



Everything you said here is true.

As of this week the WHO claims 3,486 deaths so far from H1N1.
The 1918 Spanish flu, an H1N1 strain, killed an estimated 50 million people.

I believe the world is responding to the possibility of the worst case scenario.


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 19, 2009)

Larbo said:


> Is this for real??
> 
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/18991151/H1N1-Flu-Vaccine-is-Toxic



No, not really. It's a cute letter with plenty of buzzwords but not much real science. In addition to having no peer review it has no proper references, works cited, or any other sort of way so that readers can go directly research for themselves the claims being made. 

I'd say the end of the document tells a lot about the motives and ultimate reliability of the author.

Critical thinking is a skill that must be exercised, it doesn't stay strong if it isn't used.


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## LightWalker (Sep 19, 2009)

http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccines.html


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## LEDninja (Sep 19, 2009)

I missed the swine flu shot of 1976, took the one in 1980.
Have taken the seasonal flu shot every year since 1999.
I'm still around.

In Canada the seasonal flu shot had always been without the use of adjuvants.
At the request of the WHO the Canadian (actually all) H1N1 shots will be using adjuvants to make the vaccine go farther. 4X the number of doses.
With a totally new strain of virus or for people taking a flu vaccine for the 1st time, it has been the practice to give 2 shots to build up immunity. In initial testing H1N1 has proven mild enough only 1 shot may be required. So I will be going down to the H1N1 clinic and going OW-OW-OW to get 1/8 the original planned dose of vaccine. The seasonal flu vaccine is in a separate shot so I'll go OW-OW-OW a second time. :sigh:

Adjuvants are not new. While most North American vaccines in the past have not used them, they are in regular use in other countries with minimal additional side effects. I think the person writing in the link from the OP is panicking over the unknown (adjuvant).

The current form of H1N1 is relatively mild.
Quoting the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: DON'T PANIC.
When the "Swine Flu" 1st showed up in Mexico the only confirmed cases were those who have died. So there was panic over a "100% deadly easily transmitted disease". When it was later discovered the disease had been around for 3 months and millions have been infected fear had already set in.
While H1N1 has now spread around the globe, we are not seeing massive numbers of deaths. It is towards the end of the flu season in Australia, Argentina, South Africa and no panic there.
Most of the 'panic' is amongst politicians with no training and experience in infectious diseases, who promised to get vaccines ready, now stuck with keeping their word.
i will still be taking my flu shots - both H1N1 and seasonal. No wish to have a fever, ache all over and bedridden for weeks.

Canadian schools are planning to send all sick kids home. This will not only slow the spread of H1N1 but also seasonal flu and the common cold.


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## John_Galt (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm not worried about _swine flu_ (everyone in my school says it with a solemn, mocking voice). I'm young, with a pretty good immune system. i eat a healthy, balanced diet including lots of fruit and vegetables. I get regular exercise. 

But if I get it, I'm not worried either. I'll just isolate myself from my family to the best of my ability, keep clean, and do everything else like I've done when I had the flu last time. It's so overblown.

And I think that scribd article is bs, for reasons stated. Come on people, it's just the flu. Get over it. Be careful to limit your exposure in the first place, but if you do get sick, well, you just have to treat it like the regular flu. Take a few days from work or school (believe me, nobody will mind) and try to relax. Keep, clean, etc.



I will start to worry, if it mutates, and becomes >10% deadly.


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## matrixshaman (Sep 19, 2009)

http://www.miraclemineral.org/index.php

http://www.miraclemineralstories.com/

Read and learn. I know from experience what this can do. Just for a start it cures Malaria within hours. I won't discuss it further and won't try to defend it from any 'naysayers'. If you say you can't afford $20 for a years worth of this to try it yourself then do yourself a favor and sell a flashlight. Info on this was only made public in 2006 after over 50,000 cases of Malaria were cured with it.


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## PhotonWrangler (Sep 19, 2009)

LightWalker said:


> http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccines.html



Have you noticed that all of the articles cited on that cite are their own? They clearly have their own agenda. I do not trust a site that only promotes their own point of view to the complete exclusion of everything else.


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## LukeA (Sep 19, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> http://www.miraclemineral.org/index.php
> 
> http://www.miraclemineralstories.com/
> 
> Read and learn. I know from experience what this can do. Just for a start it cures Malaria within hours. I won't discuss it further and won't try to defend it from any 'naysayers'. If you say you can't afford $20 for a years worth of this to try it yourself then do yourself a favor and sell a flashlight. Info on this was only made public in 2006 after over 50,000 cases of Malaria were cured with it.



http://herebedragonsmovie.com/


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## Marduke (Sep 19, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> http://www.miraclemineral.org/index.php
> 
> http://www.miraclemineralstories.com/
> 
> Read and learn. I know from experience what this can do. Just for a start it cures Malaria within hours. I won't discuss it further and won't try to defend it from any 'naysayers'. If you say you can't afford $20 for a years worth of this to try it yourself then do yourself a favor and sell a flashlight. Info on this was only made public in 2006 after over 50,000 cases of Malaria were cured with it.



There is one born every minute...


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## LightWalker (Sep 19, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> http://www.miraclemineral.org/index.php
> 
> http://www.miraclemineralstories.com/
> 
> Read and learn. I know from experience what this can do. Just for a start it cures Malaria within hours. I won't discuss it further and won't try to defend it from any 'naysayers'. If you say you can't afford $20 for a years worth of this to try it yourself then do yourself a favor and sell a flashlight. Info on this was only made public in 2006 after over 50,000 cases of Malaria were cured with it.


 
Thanks for the links. The drug industry hates it when people discover natural cures or any other cures.


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## thelightdude (Sep 19, 2009)

LightWalker said:


> Thanks for the links. The drug industry hates it when people discover natural cures or any other cures.




Are you folks serious? I think the President would be on TV at midnight to announce a cure for renal failure, AIDS, and cancer.

This thread is entering into the Twilight Zone and probably should be closed already.


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## copperfox (Sep 19, 2009)

LukeA said:


> http://herebedragonsmovie.com/



Luke, have you even watched that? Truth intermingled with lies. Not worth the servers it's stored on.


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## LightWalker (Sep 20, 2009)

thelightdude said:


> Are you folks serious? I think the President would be on TV at midnight to announce a cure for renal failure, AIDS, and cancer.
> 
> This thread is entering into the Twilight Zone and probably should be closed already.


 
So, how long have you known the president?


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## jake25 (Sep 20, 2009)

thelightdude said:


> By 2004, cases of poliomyelitis in Africa had been reduced to just a small number of isolated regions in the western portion of the continent, with sporadic cases elsewhere. However, recent opposition to vaccination campaigns has evolved, often relating to fears that the vaccine might induce sterility. The disease has since resurged in Nigeria and in several other African nations, which epidemiologists cite is due to refusals by certain local populations to allow their children to receive the polio vaccine.
> 
> Over 100,000 troops have been given smallpox vaccine in the last 6 years.
> 
> ...


US stands for United States, FYI. Third world countries like Africa use cheaper vaccines that are a different form of vaccination.


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## jtr1962 (Sep 20, 2009)

LightWalker said:


> Thanks for the links. The drug industry hates it when people discover natural cures or any other cures.


No argument there. All one need do is watch TV to see how much drugs are being pushed on the public. An unstated goal of the drug industry seems to be to get everyone on at least one drug for life. Look at all the new "diseases" popping up for which they just happen to have a pill.

Not sure about ClO in the links matrixshaman gave but it certainly doesn't sound like it could do any harm trying it. I'm big on finding less invasive cures for problems. For example, a few years ago vitamin B12 helped cure some major problems I was having walking due to inflammation.


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## Search (Sep 20, 2009)

I haven't read much of the thread but will throw in my 2 cents.

I know 30+ people who got the swine flu and recovered. If I got it personally I wouldn't be worried. I have gotten the flu every year for about 5 or 6 years and never went to the doctor. I always kept on with my regular life (irresponsible but lets not go there). With the swine flu I would be much more quick to get some medicine and would stay home.

My problem with it comes from that fact that my fiance is 22 weeks pregnant today. The flu is a big scare while pregnant. The swine flu is a huge scare while pregnant. 

Now, to the vaccine:

I know there are many strings of the flu. This is why making a vaccine is speculation at which string will hit. So they use one of many in hopes that they get it right. Well, they probably wont.

With the swine flu, it is to my knowledge that there is only one string. This should, hypothetically, make it much easier at preventing if the vaccine isn't a POS.

She is planning to get the vaccine as they want pregnant women to be one of the first to get it. We have weighed in the costs but she has already had one close call with the swine flu. We are waiting a few days to make sure it doesn't develop.


However, if the vaccine causes us complications with my girl and she never even gets the swine flu I'm going to be a very hurt person for a long time.

Things like this are just too much when it comes to people you love.


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## LightWalker (Sep 20, 2009)

jtr1962 said:


> No argument there. All one need do is watch TV to see how much drugs are being pushed on the public. An unstated goal of the drug industry seems to be to get everyone on at least one drug for life. Look at all the new "diseases" popping up for which they just happen to have a pill.
> 
> Not sure about ClO in the links matrixshaman gave but it certainly doesn't sound like it could do any harm trying it. I'm big on finding less invasive cures for problems. For example, a few years ago vitamin B12 helped cure some major problems I was having walking due to inflammation.


 
I've heard good things about the B12 vitamin. I don't suppose the pharmaceutical companies care much for it though.


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## LightWalker (Sep 20, 2009)

** http://www.naturalnews.com/027019_H1N1_pregnant_women_mercury.html 

_Verbatim copy of article removed as violation of rules - Empath_


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## thelightdude (Sep 20, 2009)

post removed


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

I was shocked to see this as the Headline Story on today's Drudge Report. I'm really getting sick of how the UN is operating.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

Marduke said:


> There is one born every minute...



+1 Pretty amazing this claim, or that it would even be posted here. I spent a couple hours reading all about it.  :sigh: :green:


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## Larbo (Sep 20, 2009)

_The thing that really pi**es me of about the flu situation is that when this was first discovered what did the government do try and prevent the spread...NOTHING. How something that started in a little town in Mexico was allowed to spread so fast should serve as a warning for next time, and lets ALL hope its not the "bird flu" that makes the rounds.
The brilliant advice was wash your hands, thats funny as hell because most slobs I see in public restrooms wont even do that after taking a crap! Gross eh?
Looks like the stupid government and the clowns in charge of the CDC sure screwed up with this time.
_


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## MarNav1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I will make one comment about this. The problem with the "vaccine" has nothing to do with the flu or washing hands or squalene or thimerosal etc. Squalene is a necessary oil for your body, found abundantly in your joints. Thimerosal is around 50% mercury and obviously that isn't good for anybody. It is supposedly a stabilizer/adjuvant. An Adjuvant is supposed to make the "mixture" more effective by "turbocharging" your immune system. There are two natural pathways into your body. Digestive, and your nostrils. Most of your immunity is in your gut. However when you "inject" something through the skin your immune system will recognize this as an invader because that isn't the normal route for entry. Some substances the body can handle better than others, I'll use certain antibiotics for example. Squalene however is problematic. When injected into the body there is a good chance your immune system will attack the squalene everywhere in your body which can result in many types of crippling diseases, I won't list them all here. This has unfortunately happened to many Gulf War veterans. Sometimes the effects are quick and sometimes not. Why take the chance on it? Crippling arthritis or guillian-barre cannot be reversed hardly ever. The baby in a pregnant mother is especially vulnerable, they do not have a functioning immune system. Do we want to take these risks for a very minor flu that only lasts a few days and is gone? Laws have already been passed to protect the Feds and Big Pharma from prosecution if anything goes wrong (aka the 1970's effort). If these injections are so benevolent and for our good why would that be? And lastly the effort to "mandate" injection. If some people want to take the chance with this great. I or others should not be forced to take this (including children) just because uncle government says I have to. They have already tried to force healthcare workers in New York to take this or lose their jobs. If they give in it's only a matter of time before everybody is forced to take one. And guys please save the stupid or brain dead or conspiracy theory comments for somebody else. These are just some of the things I have learned. If you don't like them, great. You can skip over them.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 20, 2009)

MarNav, I'm totally with you regarding not supporting the idea of the Govt. mandating people to get a vaccine...because they think they know best. 

The main reasons for the legal exclusions are that lawyers are out of control, and you have no US companies left that will bother with any "public service" vaccines unless they are given immunity from the real parasites of society. Historically vaccines were never a big money maker in any case.

http://eh.net/bookreviews/library/0056


> Poor prospects for profit from vaccine research has led many firms including Lilly and Pfizer to abandon the business. Patents are hard to come by, and the risks from law suits loom large. Most of the product is purchased by governments and international agencies who exercise monopoly power. Most of the profit comes from the small part of the U.S. market, and the smaller part of the European market in private hands. Huge quantities of vaccine are consumed in less developed countries, but, in a business where price and average cost can be orders of magnitude higher than marginal cost, that external market yields a markedly lower price. Merck stays in the business in part because exiting would produce bad publicity.


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## MarNav1 (Sep 20, 2009)

I certainly wouldn't argue this point myself. But it also leaves Joe Schmoe hanging if he gets a crippling disease from some "mandate" in Washington or statehouse. Try to get a doctor to sign an agreement that nothing will happen, or a beauracrat, not going to happen. Like I say my main points are will 100% have reactions? No. But enough will if squalene is used that it isn't worth the risk. And everybody should have a choice if they don't want it. The threat of losing your job is blackmail at the very least. You can always quarantine to avoid spreading disease, standard public health practice for years.


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## PhotonWrangler (Sep 20, 2009)

I did some quick research on the issue and while I agree that the squalene issue is worrisome, I'm not yet turned off to the idea of getting the vaccination. I'm going to keep reading up on this, but in the meamtime let me offer an article from sciencebasedmedicine.org that has at least temporarily calmed my concern.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 30, 2009)

This is heating up quite a bit now. NY passes a law requiring all health care workers get a mandatory H1N1 vaccine. Health care workers telling them to go pound sand. Good for them. Government almost never knows best.


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## John_Galt (Sep 30, 2009)

[puts on tin-foil hat, glances nervously over shoulder]
While I don't think the vaccines have been profitable, think of all the other products that are being sold out the wazoo with the news of a terrible, killer flu.
The hand sanitizers, cleansers, sterilizers, flu "preventatives", cough suppressant, etc. I think that is why the flu was big news. Nothing sells like bad news.
[/paranoia]


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## LightWalker (Sep 30, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHCsCXxOkR0&feature=related


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 30, 2009)

I'm not taking that damn vaccine.


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## Mike Painter (Sep 30, 2009)

John_Galt said:


> I'm not worried about _swine flu_ (everyone in my school says it with a solemn, mocking voice). I'm young, with a pretty good immune system. i eat a healthy, balanced diet including lots of fruit and vegetables. I get regular exercise.
> 
> But if I get it, I'm not worried either. I'll just isolate myself from my family to the best of my ability, keep clean, and do everything else like I've done when I had the flu last time. It's so overblown.



There probably is no need to worry but the 1918 epidemic was *far* more dangerous to the young than to the old. Most deaths came from the immune system of the young over reaction to the disease. Old farts like me have weaker systems and tended to live.


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## LightWalker (Sep 30, 2009)

Mike Painter said:


> There probably is no need to worry but the 1918 epidemic was *far* more dangerous to the young than to the old. Most deaths came from the immune system of the young over reaction to the disease. Old farts like me have weaker systems and tended to live.


 
Did they die from the disease or the vaccines?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 30, 2009)

John_Galt said:


> [puts on tin-foil hat, glances nervously over shoulder]
> While I don't think the vaccines have been profitable, think of all the other products that are being sold out the wazoo with the news of a terrible, killer flu.
> The hand sanitizers, cleansers, sterilizers, flu "preventatives", cough suppressant, etc. I think that is why the flu was big news. Nothing sells like bad news.
> [/paranoia]



LOL! I bought extra adult diapers & made a tinfoil hat for every room. Ya know in case I started soiling myself. Got my trusty boxes of Tamiflu all ready.



Sgt. LED said:


> I'm not taking that damn vaccine.



LOL! We will force feed it to you. Resistance is futile.


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## Marduke (Sep 30, 2009)

LightWalker said:


> Did they die from the disease or the vaccines?



There was no flu vaccine back then. 20-100 million people died from an H1N1 strain of flu.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 30, 2009)

LightWalker said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHCsCXxOkR0&feature=related



That Wayne Madsen doesn't quite look like the sharpest tool in the shed. Good thing they called on him as an expert.


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## LightWalker (Sep 30, 2009)

Marduke said:


> There was no flu vaccine back then. 20-100 million people died from an H1N1 strain of flu.


 
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 30, 2009)

LightWalker said:


> http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html



Another authoritative source. :shakehead

I'll bow to WIKI on this one:
*Flu vaccine origins and development*

In the world wide Spanish flu pandemic of 1918, "Physicians tried everything they knew, everything they had ever heard of, from the ancient art of bleeding patients, to administering oxygen, to developing new vaccines and sera (chiefly against what we now call _Hemophilus influenzae_—a name derived from the fact that it was originally considered the etiological agent—and several types of pneumococci). Only one therapeutic measure, transfusing blood from recovered patients to new victims, showed any hint of success."[21]
*In 1931, viral growth in embryonated hens' eggs was discovered, and in the 1940s, the US military developed the first approved inactivated vaccines for influenza, which were used in the Second World War *(Baker 2002, Hilleman 2000). Greater advances were made in vaccinology and immunology, and vaccines became safer and mass-produced. Today, thanks to the advances of molecular technology, we are on the verge of making influenza vaccines through the genetic manipulation of influenza genes (Couch 1997, Hilleman 2002).[22]


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## LightWalker (Sep 30, 2009)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mh9f_swine-flu-1976-propaganda_webcam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqHmIVDLwM&feature=player_embedded


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## asdalton (Sep 30, 2009)

Witchcraft.

I cannot find any support for your assertions, Lightwalker -- aside from that one site, and a handful of other conspirazoid sites.


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## Empath (Sep 30, 2009)

LightWalker, to quote a comment on another thread:



Empath said:


> LightWalker, it's becoming clear that you've assumed that CPF will make an excellent place for political activism. It's not though.
> 
> Efforts to campaign for your political views will often result in advisements to take it to the Underground. The posts and activities may often meet with closures, deletions, warnings, or even more limiting actions.
> 
> ...



When you turn threads into topics of your agenda by posting conspiratorial references and tabloid type material, you turn threads into potential bombs of controversy. When you demonstrate a clear agenda by frequently pushing it, it becomes destructive toward most any topic in which you participate. Your conspiracies, tabloid material and political agenda are best posted in the Underground, where those of opposing viewpoints feel the freedom to post their opinions of them.

The topic is closed.


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