# The Beast II - Who in their right mind????



## bondr006 (Aug 19, 2007)

I saw this in Yahoo tech news. I cannot imagine paying that kind of money for a light when there are so many others with those specs to choose from for much, much less. I am sure it is a good light, but $7000.00???? Come on!

http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/patterson/3492







From the article:

*"Beast"-ly Flashlight: 2,000 Lumens for $7K*

_Tue Aug 7, 2007 12:30PM EDT_ 
See Comments (85) 
Here's a flashlight for those really, really dark spaces. *Weighing in at 4.5 pounds*, the $7,000 Beast II (or "Beast II: The Best and the Brightest," as I'm now calling it) blows away even the most stubborn of shadows with 2,000 lumens of piercingly bright illumination. Just be careful where you flash it.
Discovered by the tech spelunkers at Crave, the Beast II comes armed with a standard LED array as well as a high-powered HID ("High Intensity Discharge') bulb—a type of lamp that's usually found in stadiums, warehouses, and even in IMAX projectors. The HID lamp in the Beast II throws out a 2,000-lumen beam of light, or the equivalent of about 130 household flashlights. *Powered by 20 lithium batteries*, the Beast II will run for about an hour and a half in HID mode, or 20 hours using the relatively dim LED diodes. And don't be afraid to take the Beast on a rough-and-tumble adventure; built with aerospace-grade aluminum and a hard-anodized finish, the Beast II (£3,519, or about US$7,100) actually enjoys being dropped onto hard, craggy surfaces.


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## elgarak (Aug 19, 2007)

There's already a thread about the news story here.

Some things to note:

1. The US MSRP is $4,800.00, not $7,000.00.

2. There's a rechargeable option.

3. It's shock-isolated so much that you can throw it into the air turned on without the HID bulb breaking.

4. It's a specialty military light meant to be mounted on heavy machine guns in turn mounted on vehicles.


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## LukeA (Aug 19, 2007)

elgarak said:


> There's already a thread about the news story here.
> 
> Some things to note:
> 
> 1. The US MSRP is $4,800.00, not $7,000.00.


Big deal, $4800 is still twice as much as any of its competitors.




elgarak said:


> 4. It's a specialty military light meant to be mounted on heavy machine guns in turn mounted on vehicles.


That's the Hellfire, not this.


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## Trashman (Aug 19, 2007)

Who in their right mind? Well, probably the same CPFers that own the original Beast, that's who!


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## FASTCAR (Aug 19, 2007)

The beast is not used on any heavy gun I have ever seen. They have real HIDs for that.

Also because the beast took 1 throw means zero.I have seen a PL24 hit a perp full force and work fine after.

HIDs can take a decent beating .


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## Monocrom (Aug 19, 2007)

The Beast II is a status-symbol, to be sure. And 2,000 lumens is nice.... But I'd be happy with 1,300 lumens from the PL24 AE HID Powerlight for only about $380. 

1,300 lumens at $380

-OR-

2,000 at $4,800

I love Surefires. But this is one time I'd gladly sacrifice 700 lumens and the Surefire name, for a more affordable light....


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## Kiessling (Aug 19, 2007)

Want a nearly indestructible HID light that offers a low mode option and can run on either Li-Ion (charger build into the box) or CR123? There is just one. This one.
bernie


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## greenstuffs (Aug 19, 2007)

if i had the money or win the lottery i'd buy 100 of them and give it to my fellow cpfers but i'm sure most of you preffer the turttle backs


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## bondr006 (Aug 19, 2007)

Wolf Eyes Crocodile K3400 HID Searchlight Spotlight *$800.00

* The Crocodile K3400 is the Ultimate HID Searchlight rated at an incredible *3,400* Lumens!!! It comes with all the extras needed for SAR work including its own suitcase.

The Crocodile K3400 was designed for the serious professional that needs a rugged dependable searchlight. The Crocodile has a maximum output power of *3,400* lumens but can be adjusted down to 2,000 lumens for an extended run time. The runtime ranges from 2 to 3 hours depending on your setting.






Microfire Warrior-III K3500R Rechargeable Tactical 35W HID *$488.00

* • Feature: HID (High Intensity Discharge) handheld tactical / searching flashlight, instant activating
• Model: K3500R
• Bulb: K3-HID-Bulb, lifespan about 3000 hours
• Power: 35W
• Colour temperature: 7000K
• Beam divergence adjustable: 15° - 24°
• Runtime and Brightness: *3500* lumens max / 55 minutes approximately
• Battery: Built-in Rechargeable K3 Li-ion battery pack, 3000mAH 
• AC Charger: K2-AC charger, charging time 3 hours; Input AC 100-240V, 60/50Hz 
• Switch: tactical button switch
• Body: Aircraft grade aluminum CNC, hard anodized
• Housing diameter: 44mm
• Bezel diameter: 76mm
• Length: 252mm
• Weight: 800g approximately
• Water resistant: splash proof
• Operation temperature: -10°C ------ +60°C
• Color: Tactical black


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## Nitro (Aug 19, 2007)

The light is worth $800.
The name is worth $4000.


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## LukeA (Aug 19, 2007)

Nitro said:


> The light is worth $800.
> The name is worth $4000.



:twothumbs


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## Kiessling (Aug 19, 2007)

So ... in your opinion the BeastII and the Crocodile are about equal? Which one would you choose then ... when heading out to face danger?
I know I would choose the BeastII. Anyday. 
You?
bernie


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## Nitro (Aug 19, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> Which one would you choose then ... when heading out to face danger?
> I know I would choose the BeastII. Anyday.
> You?
> bernie



Neither, I would choose an actual weapon.


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## Kiessling (Aug 19, 2007)

I did not specify "danger" nor did I specify you didn't have a weapon in addition to a light. danger cold be a cave or grotto during a rescue mission.
You are evading my question


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## LukeA (Aug 19, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> I did not specify "danger" nor did I specify you didn't have a weapon in addition to a light. danger cold be a cave or grotto during a rescue mission.
> You are evading my question



I would take 6 of the Wolf-Eyes lights.


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## Nitro (Aug 19, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> I diud not specify "danger" nor did I specify you didn't have a weapon in addition to a light. danger cold be a cave or grotto during a rescue mission.
> You are evading my question



I'd go with two Crocodile's which I'm sure even you would agree is more reliable then one Beast. That's still less then half the price.

You're not going to convince too many people the Beast is worth $4800.


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## Kiessling (Aug 19, 2007)

Luke ...you are evading, too. 

Could it be that there IS a difference between a light like the Crocodile and the BeastII in favour of the Beast? Could it be that you just don't like the price?
If so ... why not just state it? Why cry foul?
I can't afford it either ... but I sure as hell would prefer a BeastII in the hand of a Border Patrol or SAR team than a Crocodile. 

And you?

bernie


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## Kiessling (Aug 19, 2007)

Nitro said:


> I'd go with two Crocodile's which I'm sure even you would agree is more reliable then one Beast. That's still less then half the price.
> 
> You're not going to convince too many people the Beast is worth $4800.




I don't want to convince anybody that it is worth $4800. All I want is to evaluate the merits and flaws of lights, and I cannot accept that a light like the BeastII gets slammed just because of the price.
It is better than the Crocodile, and we all know it. We are flashaholics and are in it for the lights and not shopping for the cheapest bargain. Did that change? Can't we admire a light for what it is even if we think it is overpriced?
Can't we differentiate between a price and the light per se? 
I see this light getting slammed unfairly. And it angers me.

bernie


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## LukeA (Aug 19, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> Luke ...you are evading, too.
> 
> Could it be that there IS a difference between a light like the Crocodile and the BeastII in favour of the Beast?



The only thing the Beast II has over the Wolf-Eyes is a half pound of rubber surrounding the protruding parts.


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## jrv (Aug 19, 2007)

LukeA said:


> The only thing the Beast II has over the Wolf-Eyes is a half pound of rubber surrounding the protruding parts.


You've actually taken both apart and looked?


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## Kiessling (Aug 19, 2007)

LukeA said:


> The only thing the Beast II has over the Wolf-Eyes is a half pound of rubber surrounding the protruding parts.



Are you sure?
Have you ever handled a BeastII?

10 forward facing 5mm LEDs for Low mode with some UV LEDs included?
Li-Ion or CR123 at your choice ... and battery pack swap in seconds?
Charger in transport Box .. light charges when clicked in for transport?
Brutally tough construction?
Beam quality?
Maybe more ...


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## bondr006 (Aug 19, 2007)

Bernie,

If you look at my original post, you will see I was doing just that. Knocking the price tag, not the light. I even said, "I am sure it is a nice light". I just think the price is quite excessive.



Kiessling said:


> I don't want to convince anybody that it is worth $4800. All I want is to evaluate the merits and flaws of lights, and I cannot accept that a light like the BeastII gets slammed just because of the price.
> It is better than the Crocodile, and we all know it. We are flashaholics and are in it for the lights and not shopping for the cheapest bargain. Did that change? Can't we admire a light for what it is even if we think it is overpriced?
> Can't we differentiate between a price and the light per se?
> I see this light getting slammed unfairly. And it angers me.
> ...


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## Kiessling (Aug 19, 2007)

I am sad about the price, too, as this keeps me from purchasing the BeastII. The light itself however is really cool. It screams quality when you hold it in your hands and use it.


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## LEDcandle (Aug 19, 2007)

As much as I would love to have the Beast as well and no doubt a lot more R&D has gone into it than just adding rubber, I doubt its worth $4800.

I'd go for something like a Polarion as a good 'compromise' between a professional quality product and price ($2000).


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## tussery (Aug 19, 2007)

LukeA said:


> The only thing the Beast II has over the Wolf-Eyes is a half pound of rubber surrounding the protruding parts.


And a low level light option, and UV LED's that can be very helpful for military and law enforcement. Not to mention the Beast II looks 20x better than the Wolfeye's light. Not saying that it warrants an extra $4000.

Edit: Kiessling already covered it.


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## Nitro (Aug 19, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> I don't want to convince anybody that it is worth $4800. All I want is to evaluate the merits and flaws of lights, and I cannot accept that a light like the BeastII gets slammed just because of the price.
> It is better than the Crocodile, and we all know it. We are flashaholics and are in it for the lights and not shopping for the cheapest bargain. Did that change? Can't we admire a light for what it is even if we think it is overpriced?
> Can't we differentiate between a price and the light per se?
> I see this light getting slammed unfairly. And it angers me.
> ...



What do you think the light is worth?


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## seery (Aug 19, 2007)

The Wolf Eyes is a crappy made toy at best.

Had a Beast II on order with Steven at tacticalsuppy for several
months.. Since he has closed shop and can't fill the order, I'll be
looking elsewhere for a dealer who can.

The Beast II is absolutely worth the money. Anyone claiming
different just isn't in the know. 

Wolf Eyes...Please!


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## Nitro (Aug 19, 2007)

Actually, the light is worth whatever suckers (I mean someone) will pay for it.


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## Schnotts (Aug 19, 2007)

Holy crappo, Surefires gettin' a little carried away with their prices. I'm sure theres plenty of rich suckers out there that'll buy it though.


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## bondr006 (Aug 19, 2007)

"in the know" = those who have more money than they have brains. As I said before, Surefire makes good, quality lights. They are just not worth the money they charge for them. If the Surefire lights were made in China, they would cost half or less than what they cost now. One of the reasons they have to charge so much is because of the cost of American employees.....Not just because it's a quality light. America is not the only place quality goods can be made. In fact, you can also find crappy quality and craftsmanship right here in the good old US of A.



seery said:


> The Beast II is absolutely worth the money. Anyone claiming different just isn't in the know.


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## chesterqw (Aug 19, 2007)

it is like a rolex.

people buy them because of the perfect workmanship and the status(and feeling) of having one.

now stop nagging and use the time to earn more money


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## jrv (Aug 20, 2007)

The Beast is not aimed at light-duty customers like most of us here. It's aimed at extreme-duty customers who are going to invest a lot of resources in each deployment where a Beast is used, where personnel might be at risk if the light fails, and where the operator has a lot more to worry about than keeping the light dry and avoiding bumps.

A reasonable scenario might be a search & rescue team air-dropped on a mountain, having to cross some streams and rocky fields to get to the target.

I have a Boxer and while it's a great light for me it's not remotely a hard-use light. It does produce light but that's not what SureFire's customers are buying: they're buying light *after* it's been underwater while fording a stream and dropped a few times on rock, etc, by guys who simply can't afford to focus on protecting the light every step of the way.

(another way to look at it is that SureFire's customer's are only paying $500 for the light, but $4000+ for the extreme ruggedness – the part you don't get with a Boxer).

I can't say if SureFire succeeded in making an extreme-use light, but you can bet their customers will bash the Beast onto concrete, soak it in a pool, etc, before buying.

PS. My experience with HIDs is that they're usually somewhat fragile: there's a lot of electronics in the ballast and the bulb experiences pretty extreme pressures and temperatures.


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## KROMATICS (Aug 20, 2007)

What about the Polarion PH40 Helios? Twice the lumens. Half the price. Seems to be exceptionally well made. Anyone have experience with it?


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## greenlight (Aug 20, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> Here's a flashlight for those really, really dark spaces.



For really dark places, do you really need that much light?

What is the use for this light?


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## LEDcandle (Aug 20, 2007)

greenlight said:


> For really dark places, do you really need that much light?
> 
> What is the use for this light?



I would assume search and rescue, desert/plains use, and serious caving


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## EssLight (Aug 20, 2007)

:ironic: What is this thread doing in the LED forum??


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## LEDcandle (Aug 20, 2007)

EssLight said:


> :ironic: What is this thread doing in the LED forum??



It has LEDs in it :laughing:


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## zk188 (Aug 20, 2007)

For that money i would get a polarion helios and a and a novatac. A still have money leftover


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## Kiessling (Aug 20, 2007)

zk188 said:


> For that money i would get a polarion helios and a and a novatac. A still have money leftover



And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, of course. You just won't have a light with the qualities of the BeastII. It is your choice and who would I be to critisize you for that?
This is not what I am talking about. I am talking about a light getting smashed for its price only. Which is not right.


Nitro ... as it is the only light in its class it is worth whatever the customer pays. If someone can pay $4800 then so be it. It won't be me though 


jrv ... dito. Well said.

bernie


P.S.: I moved the thread to HID, where it belongs. Thanx for pointing out the obvious


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## Fusion_m8 (Aug 20, 2007)

My 2 cents:

The SUREFIRE BEAST is an extraordinary light designed for extraordinary circumstances. 

This light is not aimed at flashlight hobbyist and collectors. 

This light is aimed at people who do military operations in the harshest and darkest conditions, or rescue teams who have to search through rubble and down deserted mines/caves etc in total darkness. 

And since its taxpayers $$$, monetary cost is not that much of a concern when in these situations, just the reliabilty of the equipment and the successful outcome of the mission.


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## dougie (Aug 20, 2007)

This seems to me to be one of those threads where everyone has an opinion and they are not going to change it because they are on one side of the fence or the other? Fortunately as flashaholics we are used to buying lights made by reputable manufacturers and then comparing their merits (or flaws) and then sharing our opinions with other like minded souls.

Unfortunately their are not many on CPF who own these lights for me (or I suspect any one else) to formulate an opinion on their strengths and weaknesses. So far I have only ever seen a few posts about the Beast and in all honesty none which has been particularly objective.

This being the case I can't say if the Beast is or is not worth the money.

If any one is better qualified to provide an in depth analysis of one then I think it would be helpful. Otherwise I'm afraid this thread lacks any particular merit and perhaps brings more discourse between posters than is usually seen on CPF?:mecry:

Doug


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## Monocrom (Aug 20, 2007)

All I want to know is.... does anyone on here actually own the Beast II, and has compared it to other HID lights??


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## j3bnl (Aug 20, 2007)

$4800 and rechargeable is an option!!
Come on its a nice light and probably very well made as Surefires tend to be and if you had the money you would probably buy one. But for the average guy or gal its way to much £££££ and there are cheaper alternatives even if made in China.

Brian


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 20, 2007)

greenlight said:


> For really dark places, do you really need that much light?
> 
> What is the use for this light?



As we all know, you can never have too much light when searching for vampires.


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## greenLED (Aug 20, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> All I want to know is.... does anyone on here actually own the Beast II, and has compared it to other HID lights??


Or even actually seen or handled one?

Armchair flashlight freaks, that's what we're turning into... :shakehead


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## Kiessling (Aug 20, 2007)

I have handled one including the transport/charger box. Eventually I had to give it back though.

But ... in the case of a $4800 light ... you just can't expect that many people have one. If you won't allow discussion about it without first-hand experience ... then the posts about the BeastII would be *very* limited on CPF. Not a good situation either. 

bernie


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## easilyled (Aug 20, 2007)

dougie said:


> This seems to me to be one of those threads where everyone has an opinion and they are not going to change it because they are on one side of the fence or the other? Fortunately as flashaholics we are used to buying lights made by reputable manufacturers and then comparing their merits (or flaws) and then sharing our opinions with other like minded souls.
> 
> Unfortunately their are not many on CPF who own these lights for me (or I suspect any one else) to formulate an opinion on their strengths and weaknesses. So far I have only ever seen a few posts about the Beast and in all honesty none which has been particularly objective.
> 
> ...




I agree with a lot of what you say except that in my opinion Kiessling
*has* given an objective account, as he always does.

He has been on CPF far longer than the vast majority of us and has seen the evolution
of a great no. of lights of the highest calibre.

How someone who has not handled "the Beast" is qualified to give
an opinion on this matter eludes me completely.

Sure its extremely expensive - so is a Ferrari or a Maserati. We can
still admire them.

However, if Bernie (Kiessling) says the Beast II is wonderful quality and he's had one
to play around with, his opinion on the matter is worth *infinitely* more 
than someone else who has only been with CPF for a few months, has
never handled the Beast but is only too happy to give a completely
unqualified opinion on the matter.

No names, but there are many of them around.


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## Hodsta (Aug 20, 2007)

I am also struggling to understand the flack this thing is getting - when you by any premium, specialist product you never just pay the bill of materials plus some profit for the seller. You buy also buy "goodwill" in whatever shape or form it comes in.

This "goodwill" is no doubt paid back manifold when used in situations that *jrv* has already described and the Beast come out the other end with the light still on.


Most people out there would laugh in the face of anyone willing to spend $800 on a flashlight (probably between 16-80 times just justifiable price of a flashlight to the average Joe). In my eyes this is a bargain as it's only 6 times the justifiable price of a flashlight to a flashaholic:nana:.

There is something good about having stuff out there that is top notch and more expensive than most could afford. Just give it cheer for being a Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche/whatever of flashlights.:thumbsup:


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## Monocrom (Aug 20, 2007)

greenLED said:


> Or even actually seen or handled one?
> 
> Armchair flashlight freaks, that's what we're turning into... :shakehead


 
I hope not..... I really hope that's not the case.


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## TITAN1833 (Aug 20, 2007)

I want them all:lolsign: but in reallity I will probably never see any of them.so if anyone can send me just the BEAST for avaluation I would be very happy.


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## jrv (Aug 20, 2007)

There are a lot of people at CPF and I would not be surprised if a couple of "extreme collectors" have a Beast, though they may not care to advertise it. We may even have a member who is part of a ski patrol team and uses one on the job: even search & rescue people have hobbies.

But for the most part their customers are going to be strictly military or high-end search & rescue. SureFire probably isn't going to try to sell you one unless you regularly get dropped into a 10 square mile search zone in sub-zero temperatures with snow & sleet and a 50 lbs backpack with light, radio, GPS, medical kit, rope, climbing gear, digging gear, etc ... looking for someone whose position may not be known (or worse, "known" but wrong), someone who may be not able to signal or acknowledge your signals, perhaps even someone who does not want to be found.

Those needs are a world away from the wall hunting most of us armchair enthusiasts do, with the occasional shining the light in the bushes to see if any skunks look back. Few of us are ever going to carry a $4800 flashlight and have that be a _minor_ piece of gear we're carrying! But there are some for whom that's true.


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## scott.cr (Aug 21, 2007)

I think the Beast products are something Surefire lists in their catalog so that CPFers don't say "Surefire are a bunch of chumps for not having an HID light!"

Haha. But seriously. It's probably a hand-built light (maybe even built to order), and Surefire is in business to make money, and I'm sure having a bunch of PhDs hand-build a light isn't cheap, only the best.

Years ago when I worked for a government contractor we'd routinely sell Uncle Sam a bag of washers for like $4,000. Why? Because we were the lowest bidder. Why were we the lowest bidder? Because nobody would make enough profit selling that bag of washers for $10. It just wasn't worth the manpower to fill out the paperwork and ship the product for $10.

Who knows, some people might consider the Beast to be a bargain; rock-solid reliable, lasts a "long" time on disposable batteries, and long lamp life unlike SF's incandescents. If it saves your life once, it's a bargain.


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## zk188 (Aug 21, 2007)

I just realised that the beast is a big heavy would search and rescue really want to carry the Beast while carrying all there other gear.


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## Lightraven (Aug 21, 2007)

There are government agencies that would find the Beast II a useful item and $4800 is not a problem, though I doubt they pay that price. Also, the U.S. government is not going to buy a bunch of gear from communist China (I will though).

I think the Beast II would be a bit large for walking/hiking operations, but acceptable from a boat, jeep or helicopter. I have set my personal size limit at the Boxer. If I run into some guys from the rescue team, I'll ask what they use.


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## carrot (Aug 21, 2007)

I dunno. I for one, would, if I had the money. It's only money...


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## Kiessling (Aug 21, 2007)

It is refreshing to see some good posts about this light without the emotional ballast some of us (including me at times) seem to be carrying.


easilyled ... thanx for your kind words  ... but in this case I am not worth your trust. I am no HID guru, but just a user with experiences with about half a dizen HID lights only.

jrv ... several CPFers do own the Beast I that was sold in a limited run some years ago. Occasionally one shows up in B/S/T.

zk188 ... is it so much heavier than the other big lights? I guess those who want some runtime and punch need big lights.

bernie


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## 270winchester (Aug 22, 2007)

what he said.

I have not been here all that long, and my opinion is as subjective as the nest person's. I have watched the trend of new posters going off on why _____ costs so much when _____ costs so little and on paper they are about the same, without handling either one or both of them, which is a fascinating phenomenon to me but by no means new. I briefly went through the phase of "my G2 is better than your more expensive _____ because I'm a more savvy shopper than you are" but quickly realized that you do get what you paid for, in most cases unless you are buying lights from Mercedes dealerships..




easilyled said:


> I agree with a lot of what you say except that in my opinion Kiessling
> *has* given an objective account, as he always does.
> 
> He has been on CPF far longer than the vast majority of us and has seen the evolution
> ...


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Aug 22, 2007)

This thread is just like the traditional Ferrari bashing we are used to hear coming from rednecks: - "OMG 250.000 USD for a car!?? I can get a jap car with the same horsepowers for 25.000..". 

"Why all that money for a Omega or Rolex watch? My Citizen gives me the same time..."


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## Monocrom (Aug 22, 2007)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> This thread is just like the traditional Ferrari bashing we are used to hear coming from rednecks: - "OMG 250.000 USD for a car!?? I can get a jap car with the same horsepowers for 25.000..".
> 
> "Why all that money for a Omega or Rolex watch? My Citizen gives me the same time..."


 
Well.... you can argue the merits of one car vs. another, based on variations in handling, torque, feedback to the driver, etc.

This also applies to lights to a bit of a lesser degree.

As for watches, you have materials used in making them, how accurate, and reliable they are. After that, it's mostly a status-symbol thing. Not to take this too far off topic, but I've owned a couple of pricey watches. Returned them! When it came to be being durable and accurate at telling time, my $55 Timex Expedition blew those pricey watches out of the water!


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## Secur1 (Aug 22, 2007)

Well personally i just don't understand the point of threads like this to begin with....
It's like the SF Titan, it's a led light that sells for $500, would i buy it even if i had money to burn ? No, but that's just me. It's a matter of personal preference. Yet there were lots of CPF'rs that jumped on the pre-order sale.
If Surefire believes that their product is worth X amount of money, then they price it accordingly. Is there any point in questioning their pricing policy ? I don't think so as it doesn't concern me.
Either way i don't think Surefire is what it is today (possibly the best flashlight manufacturer in the world) by making dumb decisions....
I also don't think that this particular light can fit into the "lumens per $" category, as this is a specialty light, made for special use and that's probably why it's hard for the average flashlight user to understand why it's so expensive.
End of the day, you get what you pay for.
As someone already said, this applies to almost every purchase we make. Do you want a car to take you from A to B ? Get something cheap and reliable. Do you want to go from A to B at the speed of light and have ppl look at you in envy and blahblahblah ? Get a Ferrari or something along those lines...
It's a tool for those that need it
It's the name
It's the quality
It's the performance
That's why i think it has a hefty price tag.


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## griff (Aug 24, 2007)




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## greenstuffs (Aug 25, 2007)

For $4800 you do get an ugly light.


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## flash_bang (Aug 25, 2007)

I kinda think it looks cool, but w/e, just me. wouldn't pay 5000 bucks or whatever is it, for it though.
Noob question, but where's the switch? 
Thanks,
Flash


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## Kiessling (Aug 25, 2007)

The switch is a ring just behind the middle rubber bumper. It is magnetic and activates either the LEDs or the HID by turning with you thumb while holding the light.

I think those buying it really do not care about the pleasing aesthetic aspect though 

bernie


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## REparsed (Aug 25, 2007)

Nuttin' like a DAY at the beach with your flashlights...


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## TITAN1833 (Aug 25, 2007)

griff said:


>


Those b*easts sure look good IMHO.


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## Daniel_sk (Aug 26, 2007)

I was looking at the new surefire interactive website:
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgname/lighthome/strfnbr/6
Isn't that girl in the picture holding The Beast?

EDIT: The pictures are shown randomly, here is the picture I am talking about:


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## seery (Aug 26, 2007)

Daniel_sk said:


> I was looking at the new surefire interactive website:
> http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/pgname/lighthome/strfnbr/6
> Isn't that girl in the picture holding The Beast?


Looked at that page a dozen times and never noticed. You are absolutely correct.

Great job spotting that one. :twothumbs


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## carrot (Aug 26, 2007)

That picture makes me really wish I had the $3k for one...


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## flash_bang (Aug 27, 2007)

hmmmmm, yeah I refreshed that page a couple times but only got the cave one, and the one with it shining into some hole or something…
anywho…
that doesn't look like that much light in that picture…maybe it's just me…
oh well.
Have a good one,
Flash


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## 65535 (Aug 27, 2007)

I have handled, XeRay, Amondotech, Costco, Polarion, and the Beast 2 and by far the best two feels like it would take anything you throw at it, but you can do better for civilian use, get a polarion, waterproof and much easier to handle.


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## mdocod (Aug 27, 2007)

SF sets prices like this because they KNOW the military will cough it up. 

Thing I worry about is this: With prices that high on the best gear available, sure the military will buy A FEW, but how many guys do YOU know have come back from Iraq and said anything about the cool spotlight they were issued for fighting terrorists with? HUH?!?!!? Most of em are issued garbage, many of them don't even see a SureFire G2, let alone anything like a BEAST. If these really are intended for military, then why am I not hearing about them in the hands of the guys who need em most. Buddy of mine was over there doing room clearing, I asked him about his gear, he described to me what sounded like a 6P. Should have had an M6 IMO.

Call your congressperson, remind them of their incredibly low approval rating on handling the war (3% last I heard), tell them the troops should get better funding for better gear. Even the "left-est" people in America will say they "support" the troops. why aren't our congress-people listening?!?!?

I wonder if SF offered the beast for $1200 instead of $3K+, would more guys who NEED one have it? Would we as Americans be safer for it? I wanna see a line of the biggest baddest American men standing behind a 50 foot tall fence between here an Mexico with every one holding a beast and an assault rifle. LOL...


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 27, 2007)

I think with that girl holding the light, she should have at least done a water test with it so we could all verify it was waterproof....and of course she would also be all wet and more sexy. Poor advertising strategy.


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## D-Dog (Aug 27, 2007)

Take the Jil lights. They are made in Korea, however, I don't think many higher quality lights are out there. I know Surefire is a good brand, however, like the iphone, surefire too is making a fat profit on every light they sell. It isn't really even debatable that the light cost over $4000 to build. True labor and parts and quality control... I would love to have the light too, however, I just can't justify the price set for it. Once again, not bashing the light, just the price.


And lol at Lux's comment


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## SaVaGe (Aug 27, 2007)

Ok for $4,000 it is over priced. That light for that price should be brighter or same Lumens as the BarnBurner! and it should have a runtime of at least 3 hours on high. I mean c'mon, they have super engineers working there and all they can provide is 2300 Lumens????? 2 hours runtime????
Its a $4000 light!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for petes sake.............. although that light is Very Rugged. Maybe they have to much Overhead that they sell the beast at that outregeous price....not just the beast, all of them

p.s. I love surefire!..............surefire fanatics, dont get all excited ok:wave:

If Xe-vision will only resurrect the BarnBurner, if i have to take a second job to afford one I WILL!!!! If i have to eat PBJ for a month I WILL!! But not for the Beast..unless they have an output close to BB. IMO


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## gromit (Aug 27, 2007)

If you have to be convinced to purchase it, you just don’t get it.

Porsche for the enthusiast that understands what it takes for the experience, VW for the common driver.


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## tvodrd (Aug 27, 2007)

I only have a Beast I. :mecry5 tank searchlights kinda make up for it.  ) BVH has upped the ante!
I had the good fortune to get to play with one of the IIs on a couple of occasions. Damn, I'd like one of those Li Ion packs! I also had the pleasure of being present for pk's legendary "Beast toss!" It's a truly rugged S.O.B!

Larry


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## Illum (Aug 27, 2007)

Trashman said:


> Who in their right mind?



designed by PK with PK-type people in mind

I don't know on what grounds does Surefire set its prices but I'm certain its not their best interest to target general consumers


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## jrv (Aug 28, 2007)

D-Dog said:


> surefire too is making a fat profit on every light they sell. It isn't really even debatable that the light cost over $4000 to build. True labor and parts and quality control...


There's no reason to assume SureFire is making a "fat profit" on every Beast. They might not be making a profit on it all if sales happen not to have gone as hoped (that happens from time to time, which is why running a small business is a risk).

The cost to produce a product is a lot more than just the materials or BOM costs plus manufacturing transformation cost. An extreme example would be Windows where those costs are probably well under a penny per sale (since most are OEM factory installs that have exactly $0 materials and transformation costs).

You have to factor in R&D as well as other fixed overhead that does not scale with volume. Were they to sell millions of Beasts then they might price the Beast low assuming plenty of unit sales to cover costs, but if you assume no more than a few hundred will be sold at most you have to price each unit high enough to pay those costs. I assume that R&D and other fixed costs are much greater for each Beast than the sum of materials and transformation. And more importantly, I bet every Beast customer assumes this too.


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## jrv (Aug 28, 2007)

SaVaGe said:


> I mean c'mon, they have super engineers working there and all they can provide is 2300 Lumens????? 2 hours runtime????


I think it's safe to assume that PK at SureFire could design three lights before breakfast that ran 2 hours at 2300 lumens. That's _easy_.

It's everything else that's hard, especially the "Beast toss" part, wide environmental operating and storage parameters, etc. It also has to be compact and run on batteries too...

For the customers SF has targeted for the Beast, lumens are very much a secondary or lesser concern. Ruggedness, durability, survivability in the face of rough handling - a Beast Toss will impress these customers far more than a few hundred lumens ever would.


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## Patriot (Aug 29, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> Wolf Eyes Crocodile K3400 HID Searchlight Spotlight *$800.00*
> 
> The Crocodile K3400 is the Ultimate HID Searchlight rated at an incredible *3,400* Lumens!!! It comes with all the extras needed for SAR work including its own suitcase.
> 
> ...


 
This light performed rather poorly in the HID shoot-offs.


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## D-Dog (Aug 29, 2007)

Which one, the Croc or the 3500?


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## Patriot (Aug 29, 2007)

The croc....yuk. It's such a goofy.."good at nothing" light. Except for being ugly. The Microfire as always been a good performer.


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## EVAN_TAD (Aug 30, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> Wolf Eyes Crocodile K3400 HID Searchlight Spotlight *$800.00
> 
> * The Crocodile K3400 is the Ultimate HID Searchlight rated at an incredible *3,400* Lumens!!! It comes with all the extras needed for SAR work including its own suitcase.
> 
> ...



The Wolf Eye looks like it is made out of plastic.



LukeA said:


> I would take 6 of the Wolf-Eyes lights.



How do you hold all 6 at the same time?



seery said:


> The Wolf Eyes is a crappy made toy at best.
> 
> Had a Beast II on order with Steven at tacticalsuppy for several
> months.. Since he has closed shop and can't fill the order, I'll be
> ...



I can order one for you.



bondr006 said:


> "in the know" = those who have more money than they have brains. As I said before, Surefire makes good, quality lights. They are just not worth the money they charge for them. If the Surefire lights were made in China, they would cost half or less than what they cost now. One of the reasons they have to charge so much is because of the cost of American employees.....Not just because it's a quality light. America is not the only place quality goods can be made. In fact, you can also find crappy quality and craftsmanship right here in the good old US of A.



Who is capable of manufacturing a Beast copy?

There can only be one Paul Kim.



Lightraven said:


> I think the Beast II would be a bit large for walking/hiking operations, but acceptable from a boat, jeep or helicopter. I have set my personal size limit at the Boxer. If I run into some guys from the rescue team, I'll ask what they use.



I took a hike with my Beast.



jrv said:


> There's no reason to assume SureFire is making a "fat profit" on every Beast. They might not be making a profit on it all if sales happen not to have gone as hoped (that happens from time to time, which is why running a small business is a risk).
> 
> The cost to produce a product is a lot more than just the materials or BOM costs plus manufacturing transformation cost. An extreme example would be Windows where those costs are probably well under a penny per sale (since most are OEM factory installs that have exactly $0 materials and transformation costs).
> 
> You have to factor in R&D as well as other fixed overhead that does not scale with volume. Were they to sell millions of Beasts then they might price the Beast low assuming plenty of unit sales to cover costs, but if you assume no more than a few hundred will be sold at most you have to price each unit high enough to pay those costs. I assume that R&D and other fixed costs are much greater for each Beast than the sum of materials and transformation. And more importantly, I bet every Beast customer assumes this too.



Everybody had to pay the same price for the original Beast, including dealers.


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## seery (Sep 2, 2007)

EVAN_TAD said:


> I can order one for you.


Evan - PM sent. Thank you.


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## robo21 (Sep 2, 2007)

bondr006 said:


> "in the know" = those who have more money than they have brains. As I said before, Surefire makes good, quality lights. They are just not worth the money they charge for them. If the Surefire lights were made in China, they would cost half or less than what they cost now. One of the reasons they have to charge so much is because of the cost of American employees.....Not just because it's a quality light. America is not the only place quality goods can be made. In fact, you can also find crappy quality and craftsmanship right here in the good old US of A.


 
I have to disagree. If the Beast II were made in China it would possibly be crap. I'm very skeptical of Chinese products. A friend of mine bought 2 brand new Chinese motor scooters each cost less than 1/3 of the cost of a new Vespa. Problem is he can't ride either one now after a few months due to mechanical problems. And he can't get parts to fix them - even light bulbs! Food is another area we should be very, very careful of Chinese products. They have no regulations on pesticides, etc. Remember the dog food issues. 

Granted they have produced some decent mid level flashlights but I'm very circumspect about anything coming from China.


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## chakrawal (Sep 4, 2007)

If Surefire sell it for half the price I am going to buy it right away.


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## brightnorm (Nov 13, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> Want a nearly indestructible HID light that offers a low mode option and can run on either Li-Ion (charger build into the box) or CR123? There is just one. This one.
> bernie


 
Not to mention that Surefire lumens are Torch lumens, not the Bulb lumens quoted by other manufacturers. (This is my assumption based on common practice with known incandescent lights).

The generally accepted figure for incandescents is Bulb Lumens x 65% = Torch lumens. If that applies to HIDs then the Surefire could be called a 3100 lumen light.

I have always appreciated Surefire, and my M6 (with JS's M6-R pack and soon-to-be M6-RL packl) is one of my avorite lights. But for me personally the price and size of the Beast mnake it beyond consideration.

Brightnorm


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## dudemar (Nov 13, 2007)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> This thread is just like the traditional Ferrari bashing we are used to hear coming from rednecks: - "OMG 250.000 USD for a car!?? I can get a *jap* car with the same horsepowers for 25.000..".
> 
> "Why all that money for a Omega or Rolex watch? My Citizen gives me the same time..."



I find the use of this word to be highly offensive, specifically in the context of this example.



Monocrom said:


> The Beast II is a status-symbol, to be sure. And 2,000 lumens is nice.... But I'd be happy with 1,300 lumens from the PL24 AE HID Powerlight for only about $380.
> 
> 1,300 lumens at $380
> 
> ...



Does anyone know if AE lights are shock isolated? I just bought an AE Xenide 20W and it'd be nice to have that option.=)

Dudemar


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## Bushman5 (Nov 13, 2007)

Hodsta said:


> I am also struggling to understand the flack this thing is getting - when you by any premium, specialist product you never just pay the bill of materials plus some profit for the seller. You buy also buy "goodwill" in whatever shape or form it comes in.
> 
> This "goodwill" is no doubt paid back manifold when used in situations that *jrv* has already described and the Beast come out the other end with the light still on.
> 
> ...



as i have discovered, moste people laugh when i say my flashlights started at $50. They are absolutely mindboggled that someone would spend $50 on a light. One of them was a ten year SAR tech, who said all he needs is a minimag. :sick2:

the majority of the SAR, Fire, and other agencies around my parts use nothing more than LED headlamps, and Pelican Saberlights, the Fire guys use the Big "D" or the ED series lights. Not even the coast guard locally uses any such light like the Surefire. They have bigger and brighter lights on the boat, and for in the water they use Saberlights.


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## Bushman5 (Nov 13, 2007)

mdocod said:


> SF sets prices like this because they KNOW the military will cough it up.
> 
> Thing I worry about is this: With prices that high on the best gear available, sure the military will buy A FEW, but how many guys do YOU know have come back from Iraq and said anything about the cool spotlight they were issued for fighting terrorists with? HUH?!?!!? Most of em are issued garbage, many of them don't even see a SureFire G2, let alone anything like a BEAST. If these really are intended for military, then why am I not hearing about them in the hands of the guys who need em most. Buddy of mine was over there doing room clearing, I asked him about his gear, he described to me what sounded like a 6P. Should have had an M6 IMO.
> 
> ...



+1

and 

+|1 to a beast on every assault rifle...oh yea...light up the border!! :naughty:


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## Size15's (Nov 13, 2007)

Bushman5 said:


> the majority of the SAR, Fire, and other agencies around my parts use nothing more than LED headlamps, and Pelican Saberlights, the Fire guys use the Big "D" or the ED series lights. Not even the coast guard locally uses any such light like the Surefire. They have bigger and brighter lights on the boat, and for in the water they use Saberlights.


I think the Pelican Super SaberLite (3C) (in yellow) is one of the best looking flashlights. I own one - it usually lives in the trunk of my car [along with a variety of other lights] and it actually sees some use once in a while.


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## hyperloop (Oct 6, 2008)

i'm sorry if this is going to be a dumb question, but they aired that movie, "catacombs" tonight in my country and i saw The Beast but when i tried looking for it on Surefire's website, it wasn't there?? Other sites had it but not surefire's. How come?


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## Size15's (Oct 6, 2008)

hyperloop said:


> i'm sorry if this is going to be a dumb question, but they aired that movie, "catacombs" tonight in my country and i saw The Beast but when i tried looking for it on Surefire's website, it wasn't there?? Other sites had it but not surefire's. How come?


Plenty of SureFire's products aren't on their .com site (I'm not sure whether that helps at all)


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## pfccypret (Oct 6, 2008)

It is in their print and online catalogs


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## mdocod (Oct 6, 2008)

Wow, older thread, don't remember that outburst up a few, must have been drinking or something at the time. If it offends I'll be happy to edit it out. 

Anyways, I got to thinking about this today....

---------------------------------

The more I think I about products like the beast, the more I realize their true purpose. 

Car companies often spend millions to maintain a car line that is not profitable, even when the car is sold at a very high price, purely because that particular model car makes a statement about the company that is positive just by showing up or being noticed. The value of the vehicle in the companies eye is greater than the loss taken by manufacturing and selling it. Many flagship vehicles are limited run offerings, with exotic looks and impractical features or configurations. Owning one of these limited types of cars is meaningful to those who can afford it. Boiled down to it's simplest terms, it's a way to convey success to those around you. But I have no doubt, that the ownership in something like a beast would bring a level of personal satisfaction above and beyond just a chance to show off. It's about owning something special, unique, rare, etc etc. Like the lure of owning one-of-a-kind artifacts and displaying them above the stone fireplace in the living room. 

Endeavors like a Beast or exotic car gives the engineers at that company a chance to really push the limits and show-off what they can do. This gets them excited and motivated and probably sparks a lot of ideas that can someday be incorporated into the regular product line. Working on compliance with federal safety regulations on a basic 4 door sedan all day probably causes nothing but headaches. A chance to change gears and make something fun gets the creative juice flowing again! 

The thought that it's the same guy's who came up with the beast that made the 6P, gives that 6P more meaning and value. Like the guy who is faced with the decision to buy a mini-van for his growing family, might lean towards the caravan since it has the same "blood" line as the Viper. 

Eric


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## Lightraven (Oct 6, 2008)

Ha-ha. I remember that outburst.

M-4 rifles with Eotechs, ACOGs and a few Surefire weaponlights? Check.
Beast/Maxabeam/Night Hunter II? Check.
Crazy tall metal fence with concertina wire on top? Check.
Immense towers with night vision cameras, daylight cameras and massive spotlights? Check.
Biggest, baddest American men? Uh, would you settle for small statured men and women, some of whom are naturalized American citizens (England, Mexico, Canada, Russia, Colombia), and a few of whom are bad?

There are helicopters, night vision devices, waverunners, horses, go-fast boats, surveillance sensors and various less lethal toys that get a nightly workout on the southern frontier. It costs $1500 to get smuggled across the border. 

If this post offends anybody. . .


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## Patriot (Oct 7, 2008)

I never remember seeing the "outburst" Eric or Bushman's response to it. He misquotes you and says, "+1 to a Beast on every assault rifle." lol.....that would make for an interesting mount. :laughing:



> mdocod
> Car companies often spend millions to maintain a car line that is not profitable, even when the car is sold at a very high price, purely because that particular model car makes a statement about the company that is positive just by showing up or being noticed. The value of the vehicle in the companies eye is greater than the loss taken by manufacturing and selling it. Many flagship vehicles are limited run offerings, with exotic looks and impractical features or configurations. Owning one of these limited types of cars is meaningful to those who can afford it. Boiled down to it's simplest terms, it's a way to convey success to those around you.




I think that's a really great analogy and probably fits in closely with exclusive lights like the Beast. While working with Mercedes indirectly, I learned that one of our models, the SLR actually cost more to build than the $465,000 dollars they were selling for. When I think about all of the publicity they've had over the past few years because of it I can understand why they designed and built it. I've never really looked at the Beast in that way before but the light and the price really makes headlines in the illumination world and I know that I also look at that light in awe sometimes even though it might not be the brightest or be the best in every category. It's the Surefire name, build quality and exclusivity that makes it famous, not to mention that it looks pretty darn cool too.


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## matthew127 (Oct 7, 2008)

I certainly wouldn't pick one up new for that price, but used for maybe half that I would seriously consider. Surefire's customer service and return policy cannot be beaten.


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## matthew127 (Oct 7, 2008)

Having said that, the m4 scout light is much more weapon-friendly, but I've seen than forward handgrips with turbo heads on them once in a blue moon. NOW, if we can mod the 5-led head that cabella's offers to replace the m4's (flashlight, not weapon), we're in business .


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## matthew127 (Oct 7, 2008)

I should point out one is being sold on ebay right now for around 1200 US, but I think it's the first generation...without the rechargeable battery pack...not sure, though.


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