# Test/Review of Orbtronic 18650 3600mAh (Black)



## HKJ (Nov 28, 2013)

[size=+3]Orbtronic 18650 3600mAh (Black)[/size]






Official specifications:

Capacity (Ah): 3.6 Ah (3600mAh)
Energy (Wh): 13 Wh
Nominal Voltage (V): 3.6V - 3.7V
Charging Voltage (V): 4.2 V
Weight (g): 47 g
Diameter (mm): 18.6 mm (+/- 0.03mm)
Height (mm): 68.9 mm (+/- 0.03mm)
Max. Discharge rate: 2C (7.2A)
Chemical Composition: Li-ion (Lithium-Ion)
Protection ICs: Made in Japan (Design by Seiko)
Bare Cell: Made by Panasonic, Made in Japan
Button Top: Yes
External Resettable Protection: Yes
Overcharge Protection: Activated at 4.35V
Overdischarge Protection: Activated at 2.5V
Overcurrent Protection: Activated at 7.5A-8.5A
Overheating, and dual short circuit protection (External, and Internal).






This is the next increase in battery capacity, from 3400mAh to 3600mAh, this is not a huge increase.
With my test conditions (Discharge to 2.8 volt), I do not get 200mAh more capacity, more like 100mAh.
The cell used can be discharged down to 2.5 volt, in my test I only discharges to 2.8 volt, i.e. I do not measure the full capacity. But then, not all lights will be able to use the full capacity.









Orbtronic uses a very nice packing for this battery.
























Due to the protection the battery cannot deliver 7A continuous.

































[size=+3]Conclusion[/size]

When comparing this battery to the 3400mAh cell, the new battery has slight higher voltage and slightly higher capacity, this is not a revolution in any way, just a small improvement.
Being based on a Panasonic cell the battery is, of course, a very good battery.


[size=+3]Notes and links[/size]

The battery was supplied by Orbtronic for review.

How is the test done and how to read the charts
How is a protected LiIon battery constructed
More about button top and flat top batteries


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## 1mT (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks!
Could you remove orbitronic's cover and take a photo of panasonic's cell?
Could you make measurements of ncr18650g without protection board?


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## HKJ (Nov 28, 2013)

1mT said:


> Thanks!
> Could you remove orbitronic's cover and take a photo of panasonic's cell?
> Could you make measurements of ncr18650g without protection board?



No, but when I can get my hands on some unprotected 3600mAh, I will test and photo them.


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## space-cowboy (Nov 28, 2013)

1mT said:


> Thanks!
> Could you remove orbitronic's cover and take a photo of panasonic's cell?
> Could you make measurements of ncr18650g without protection board?


How about you buy some ncr18650g, and send to HKJ to test. Contribute to community before you demand anything. 

THANK YOU HKJ for contributing to safer, and better flashlight community.

Knowledge is the real power.


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## psychbeat (Nov 28, 2013)

These look pretty good!
I might not need to get a 4.3v set up after all when I buy more cells 

In a couple of months the raw dog version should be pretty affordable. 

Thanks for the test!!!


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## toysareforboys (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks for the test!

Looks like I'll have to wait for a review of the unprotected one, as the protection circuit looks to be causing lots of voltage sag at 5 amps.

-Jamie M.


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## phantom23 (Nov 28, 2013)

psychbeat said:


> In a couple of months the raw dog version should be pretty affordable.
> 
> Thanks for the test!!!


Because of this new cell the 3400mAh version (which actually has up to 100mAh less in real life) became much cheaper and even more affordable.


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## space-cowboy (Nov 28, 2013)

It seems that 3600mAh holding voltage much better than 3400mAh.
You have to actually compare protected vs protected.

See below:3400mAh is the newest EagleTac cell vs Orbtronic 3600mAh (blue line) @ 5A


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## psychbeat (Nov 28, 2013)

^^ exactly!!
& the unprotected should be a tad better even


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## space-cowboy (Nov 28, 2013)

psychbeat said:


> ^^ exactly!!
> & the unprotected should be a tad better even



Unprotected will always be better in discharge tests, because of lower internal resistance.
That is correct.


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## HKJ (Nov 28, 2013)

space-cowboy said:


> Unprotected will always be better in discharge tests, because of lower internal resistance.
> That is correct.



A protection chip often need 0.1 volt to trip, i.e. a protected battery will have about 0.1 volt lower output voltage at the protection limit.
For this battery we can see that the protection trips at 7A continuous load, i.e. the output voltage will probably be 0.07 volt lower than a unprotected battery.

The 0.1 volt depends on protection chips, you can get chips with 0.05 volt trip voltage. If the protection uses that type of chip it would mean only 0.035 volt lower voltage at 5A.


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## space-cowboy (Nov 28, 2013)

HKJ said:


> A protection chip often need 0.1 volt to trip, i.e. a protected battery will have about 0.1 volt lower output voltage at the protection limit.
> For this battery we can see that the protection trips at 7A continuous load, i.e. the output voltage will probably be 0.07 volt lower than a unprotected battery.
> 
> The 0.1 volt depends on protection chips, you can get chips with 0.05 volt trip voltage. If the protection uses that type of chip it would mean only 0.035 volt lower voltage at 5A.



That is true too. It also depends on how many chips are used.

I think this cell is priced very good, having in mind that its is the first 3600mAh cell on the market. 
I do not even see NCR18650G for sale anywhere.


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## HKJ (Nov 28, 2013)

space-cowboy said:


> That is true too. It also depends on how many chips are used.



The voltage drop at the protection trip current does not depend on the number of transistors (chips). The actual protection trip current will vary with number and type of transistors, this means that good (Defined as low Rdson) transistors or many transistors will give at lower voltage drop at a specific current.


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## torukmakto4 (Nov 28, 2013)

How is it that Orbtronic is acquiring and rewrapping the G cell before ANYONE else has it available for sale, even bare?

I assume it can't be a deal with Pana, because as far as I know, this type of use of a loose Li-ion cell is not regarded as officially OK, supported or catered to by any Li-ion manufacturer including Panasonic. Has that changed? Are "protectors" and loose cell vendors going official now and buying directly from the cell companies?


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## Changchung (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks again...


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## candle lamp (Nov 29, 2013)

Excellent test review. HKJ!

Thanks a lot for your continuous valuable tests. :thumbsup:


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## Mr. Tone (Nov 29, 2013)

Thanks again, HKJ, for the great review and contribution to the community!


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## LEDLynx (Nov 29, 2013)

Excellent and informative review, as usual! Now I just have to decide if the extra little bit of juice is worth it, instead of just replacing the 3400mAh Orbtronic cell that I lost...


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## Disciple (Dec 1, 2013)

HKJ, thanks for another fine test.



space-cowboy said:


> It seems that 3600mAh holding voltage much better than 3400mAh.
> You have to actually compare protected vs protected.



I disagree; it is quite similar some protected 3400mAh cells:


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## HKJ (Dec 1, 2013)

Disciple said:


> I disagree; it is quite similar some protected 3400mAh cells:



When comparing protected batteries at high currents, you have to look at the protection trip current. The reason the 3400mAh looks as good is because the protection trips at 12A and the 3600mAh already trips at 7.8A.
I.e. the different protection circuits is masking the real difference between the two cells.


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## Disciple (Dec 1, 2013)

Okay; thanks for the lesson. So even though neither trip level is reached in the test the 12A circuit has less resistance? Is that always the case? (Higher trip current = less overhead?)


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## HKJ (Dec 1, 2013)

Disciple said:


> Okay; thanks for the lesson. So even though neither trip level is reached in the text the 12A circuit has less resistance? Is that always the case? (Higher trip current = less overhead?)



As long as the chip uses has the same trip voltage: Yes.
My guess is that most chip used has 0.1 volt in trip voltage, i.e. the voltage for the protected battery will be 0.1 lower at trip current, than for the unprotected battery (That would be 0.05 volt at half the trip current).
It is possible to get chips with 0.05 volt or 0.2 volt trip voltage.


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## kj2 (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks for the review


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## pabcor (Dec 3, 2013)

Well, then that battery is the best on the market for now


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## Lone Eagle (Dec 3, 2013)

HKJ thank you for providing useful information in your testing and also your sage opinions are always of great value to us.


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## verysimple (Jan 2, 2014)

excellent review, as always


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## applevalleyjoe (Jan 4, 2014)

Orbtronic has been one of my favorite batteries for some time now. Thanks for the update information...as always, good review.


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## etc (Jan 4, 2014)

Thanks for the review.

I think I will get both protected and unprotected versions.


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## ven (Jan 5, 2014)

Great review ,it's a movement in the right direction,I wonder when we will see 4000mah.....
the jump of 200mah to me is not worth the potential cost difference(not sure what it will be ) however it may bring cost of the 3400mah cells down a bit which can only be a good thing imo.


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## Overclocker (Jan 5, 2014)

hi henrik! so this is really a metal bottom? not a "PCB" bottom?


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## HKJ (Jan 5, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> hi henrik! so this is really a metal bottom? not a "PCB" bottom?




It is, of course, pcb bottom. I have been a bit to fast with copying.


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## space-cowboy (Jan 5, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> hi henrik! so this is really a metal bottom? not a "PCB" bottom?



Since when Copper is not a metal ?

Or am I missing something.


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## HKJ (Jan 5, 2014)

space-cowboy said:


> Since when Copper is not a metal ?
> 
> Or am I missing something.



When I specify "metal" it has some thickness, the copper on a pcb is very thin.


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## Rinspeed (Jan 7, 2014)

Thanks for another great review HKJ. Super customer service from Orbtronics over the weekend, ordered two 3100mAh and an Xtar WP2 II from them Saturday morning and had it last night, Monday shipped USPS Priority. How many companies receive an order right before lunch on a Saturday and ship it out the same day.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 11, 2014)

Thanks for the review.

Nice to see an incremental improvement.

Not revolutionary, but still nice to see.

Wish all those "Scientist invents new battery chemistry with five times the capacity
and triple the lifetime" articles would come true.


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## HKJ (Jan 11, 2014)

LEDAdd1ct said:


> Wish all those "Scientist invents new battery chemistry with five times the capacity and triple the lifetime" articles would come true.



The scientists does not specify lifetime and that is probably part of the problem (Nobody want a battery that can only be charged 10 times). Another problem is the production, it might be very expensive to produce today.
Sometimes I do also wonder what they compare to when they specify x times better, maybe some scientists has forgot to look outside the lab for a couple of years.

But it would definitely change the world if we got a cheap battery with 5 to 10 times the capacity of current batteries and a very high cycle life.

Until then, we must live with incremental improvements and they do count. In a couple of years we have moved from 2200mAh to 3600mAh for 18650 LiIon batteries.


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## Mr. Tone (Jan 11, 2014)

HKJ said:


> The scientists does not specify lifetime and that is probably part of the problem (Nobody want a battery that can only be charged 10 times). Another problem is the production, it might be very expensive to produce today.
> Sometimes I do also wonder what they compare to when they specify x times better, maybe some scientists has forgot to look outside the lab for a couple of years.
> 
> But it would definitely change the world if we got a cheap battery with 5 to 10 times the capacity of current batteries and a very high cycle life.
> ...



Yes, when I first started 2200ma was the best true rating available. Then came 2400 and 2600. The cool thing is that these are a true 3600 and that is with the same size cell as the 2200. Panasonic is on top of their game.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 11, 2014)

Just be careful to make sure they really _are_ 65mm long and 18mm wide:

Link

I would like to see a precise measurement of a bare Panasonic 3600mAh cell when they
are available.

I have my reservations. ;-)


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## torukmakto4 (Jan 14, 2014)

The original NCR18650 was correctly an 18650 cell. It used the same can as all other Pana cells of recent memory.

The NCR18650A was correctly an 18650 cell. It used the same can and had the same dimensions as the NCR18650.

The NCR18650B was correctly an 18650 cell. It used the same can and had the same dimensions as the NCR18650 and NCR18650A.

No size increase has occurred in the Pana NCR line. The datasheets specify the dimensions (I have one for the B cell that lists 18.25mm and all my other Pana, Sanyo and Sony sheets specify 18.35, max. 18.5, and max. 18.6) and measurements confirm them, see HKJ comparison. Fat high-caps are a myth that somehow endures, but the problem is, has been and will continue to be the coincidental failings of rewrappers to make consistent products.

I would also like to see bare NCR-G cells tested and measured but somehow I doubt that Panasonic would be content to randomly and suddenly violate the standard in this particular instance and increase the physical size of their cells for a tiny bit more capacity that might be obtained from the sort of dimension change we are worried about.

My solution is simple, standardize my gear on factory cells without third party items added (labels, buttons, pcbs). Being physically smallest, most anything "18650" can take them or be easily modded to take them, and you can reasonably expect that inthe future you can grab random new awesome cells and drop them in right away.


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## CBeau (Jan 14, 2014)

I would try these but Orb website says outta stock


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## boki (Jan 14, 2014)

How would these compare to AW cells in same capacity ratings (if they are making 3600mAh ones that is)?


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## HKJ (Jan 14, 2014)

boki said:


> How would these compare to AW cells in same capacity ratings (if they are making 3600mAh ones that is)?



I do not believe that AW has them, but they would basically be the same. The main difference between brands is the protection circuit, a high trip current will give slightly higher output voltage at similar loads.


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## Mr. Tone (Jan 16, 2014)

I wonder why it seems that there are none of these available anywhere else, especially not bare cells. It seems strange that Orbtronics alone would have this latest Panasonic cell with no other vendor having it yet. I am not doubting it's authenticity in any way, but it seems strange. Would Panasonic really have a special deal with Orbtronic to allow them first dibs or something? That seems unlikely to me with a huge company like Panasonic. Again, this is no conspiracy theory just plain curiosity.


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## Aperture (Jan 16, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> I wonder why it seems that there are none of these available anywhere else, especially not bare cells. It seems strange that Orbtronics alone would have this latest Panasonic cell with no other vendor having it yet. I am not doubting it's authenticity in any way, but it seems strange. Would Panasonic really have a special deal with Orbtronic to allow them first dibs or something? That seems unlikely to me with a huge company like Panasonic. Again, this is no conspiracy theory just plain curiosity.


HKJ also tested the Keeppower flavour with the higher trip current:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...eview-of-Keeppower-18650-3600mAh-(Black)-2014


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## HKJ (Jan 16, 2014)

Both Orbtronic and Keeppower got the 3600mAh batteries.


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## Mr. Tone (Jan 16, 2014)

That's funny that I missed your Keeppower 3600 review. I did several Google searches for Panasonic 3600 18650 in various terms/ways, etc. For some reason all I could find was the Orbtronic website and your review. I am glad to see another vendor have these cells. However, I am quite interested in getting some of these cells bare.


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## Mr. Tone (Jan 16, 2014)

I just went to Keeppower's website and they don't have that battery listed yet in their product lineup.


EDIT : Interestingly enough Keeppower has two different websites and this battery is listed on the .com website under new products. It is not on the first website that pops up which is a .net website.


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## CyclingSalmon14 (Aug 6, 2014)

What happend to these? Outside of HKJ reviews (great reviews!) I have not really seen them, did they not make it to market? Seems no one stocks them?


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## CyclingSalmon14 (Aug 6, 2014)

We saw hype threads of a 4k 18650 back in 12/13 do you think we will ever see one? Or have we reached the pinicale of 18650 with current tech?


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## pilou (Aug 6, 2014)

phantom23 said:


> Because of this new cell the 3400mAh version (which actually has up to 100mAh less in real life) became much cheaper and even more affordable.



The 3400mA version is still $15 a piece, which I admit is better than $22 for the slightly higher capacity of 3500-3600mA.


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## shira (Aug 6, 2014)

Perhaps all of the 3600 mAH cells being produced are getting sucked up by the laptop market, and there's isn't any excess manufacturing capacity yet for "secondary" markets.


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## StorminMatt (Aug 6, 2014)

shira said:


> Perhaps all of the 3600 mAH cells being produced are getting sucked up by the laptop market, and there's isn't any excess manufacturing capacity yet for "secondary" markets.



http://budgetlightforum.com/node/26311

According to someone on another forum, a 'couple of Japanese laptop manufacturers' have exclusive rights to these cells. I don't know how valid this is. But the idea that someone has exclusive rights to these cells sounds plausible, considering their rarity (but given the low drain nature of these cells, this entity likely isn't Tesla, as some believe). The same person said the Orbtronic cells are likely laptop pulls. Again, I'm not sure how true this is. Someone else said the Orbtronic cells are likely samples. Again, not sure how likely this is.


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## magnum70383 (Dec 1, 2014)

I'm digging up this thread... I'm trying to get my hands on these batteries but I can't seem to find anywhere that will ship to Canada. Any help will be great!


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## buglight (Dec 2, 2014)

magnum70383 said:


> I'm digging up this thread... I'm trying to get my hands on these batteries but I can't seem to find anywhere that will ship to Canada. Any help will be great!



found some here:
http://callieskustoms.com/CalliesKustoms-Batteries.html


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## KITROBASKIN (Jan 20, 2015)

After contacting orbtronic.com, this reply came forth:

We expect Panasonic to release much more cells in March.
They are working for a few high level customers,/ very limited quantities.
With 3800, and 4000mAh on the horizon it seems they do not see 3600mAh as a big player.



Then when I asked if I could post this info on the forum, Sal of the Orbtonic Team replied:

In March (maybe earlier) you should expect larger quantities NCR18650G.Hopefully price will go down for bare cells.


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## thegreatfixer (Mar 12, 2015)

for right now are the *Sanyo NCR18650BF 3400mAh* BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK @ ~*$6.50* 
for general lower power use NO VAPING ?????

thank you


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## Stephen2010 (May 20, 2015)

Now there is no place to buy?

We see there is no link in the website, or amazon.

Still sell, or not any more?


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## magellan (May 20, 2015)

Disciple said:


> Okay; thanks for the lesson. So even though neither trip level is reached in the test the 12A circuit has less resistance? Is that always the case? (Higher trip current = less overhead?)



And one for me too. I would never have seen that.


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## KITROBASKIN (May 20, 2015)

AS of yesterday, no 3600mAh, but soon there will be a 3500mAh available at Orbtronic.


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## ChrisGarrett (May 20, 2015)

KITROBASKIN said:


> AS of yesterday, no 3600mAh, but soon there will be a 3500mAh available at Orbtronic.



The 3600s at ~$22 when they first hit, weren't really worth it to me and then they became vaporware for the most part. 

We can get the 3400s for next to nothing today, all day long and so I never thought that the 3600s were something worth the premium, even in the beginning.

My only protected 18650s are my first pair--EagleTac 3100s that I bought back in mid-2012 for $24 shipped, when I got my first li-ion light--my ZL SC-600 CW. 

Since then, it's been bare cells for me.

Chris


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## StorminMatt (May 21, 2015)

KITROBASKIN said:


> With 3800, and 4000mAh on the horizon it seems they do not see 3600mAh as a big player



I think 3800 or 4000mAH is a little much to expect anytime soon (if ever).


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## neutralwhite (Jun 2, 2015)

Anywhere in the UK or Europe to buy these 3600 ?, or is there a good U.S seller?.

thanks.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jun 2, 2015)

neutralwhite said:


> Anywhere in the UK or Europe to buy these 3600 ?, or is there a good U.S seller?.
> 
> thanks.



Orbtronic is a good seller in the US (Florida) (quick, reasonable shipping domestic) and it has been said on this forum that Orbtronic has a good relationship with Panasonic and presumably the other cell manufacturers (or wholesalers?) but the impression I am getting is that the bigger players are getting most of the attention, and the flashlight market is secondary. Perhaps four months ago the estimate from Orbtronic was a restock early summer but I have not heard an update on that. I have sort-of given up on the 3600mAh 18650 battery and am content with the high drain 3500's, thinking that we will get even higher capacity down the road. 

It would be interesting to see a CPF member who has a 3600mAh 18650, compare it with the new 3500mAh. An average, modern, high power flashlight might get, what, 10 more minutes, or less, runtime? And for those like myself who do not like to drain much below 3.6-3.8 Volts, the difference is even less (one would think). I like to support cutting-edge products (3500mAh's enroute) but for me, the considerably less expensive price on the 3500 works for me. Besides, a 3500mAh in the hand, beats any number of out-of-stock 3600's in the proverbial bush; so to speak.


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## CelticCross74 (Jun 4, 2015)

I somehow ended up lucking out and got 8 of the Orbtronic 3600mah cells. Everything I put them in runs a bit longer and stronger but they also take a good bit longer to charge vs 3400mah. Now these new 3500mah 10a cells are out and seem to be the cats meow to bad all those expensive 3600mah cells burned up so much cash or Id order a couple 3500's. Really interested in folks results with the 3500's as yes the 3600's are marginally better than the 3400's but not THAT much....oh well...


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## Psychonaut (Feb 10, 2016)

How are these in comparison to the 3100 mAh cells apart from the higher capacity?


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## RI Chevy (Feb 10, 2016)

http://lygte-info.dk/

Use his comparitor and find the cell your inquiring about.


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## degarb (Feb 10, 2016)

StorminMatt said:


> I think 3800 or 4000mAH is a little much to expect anytime soon (if ever).



I recall 2.5 or 3 years ago articles with developer interviews, saying 3800 was on the horizon. Then again, I am still waiting for the 303lpw neutral for 3 years, while I am makimg due with the 156 lpw ish--so, 2012 a.d.… 3800 and 200 lpw at 700ma, either, is the trigger threshold to induce me to upgrade.


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## Psychonaut (Feb 11, 2016)

RI Chevy said:


> http://lygte-info.dk/
> 
> Use his comparitor and find the cell your inquiring about.



Did that, thank you.

I found the Keeppower 3500 mAh to be a comparable and somewhat cheaper alternative.


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## CelticCross74 (Apr 9, 2016)

good to see this thread still going. In the end I scored 4 more of these cells for a total of 12. Time passed and this cell vanished from the market. Since then I have bought nearly two dozen of the 3500mah 10amp cells both Orbs and Keeppower and one unprotected GA off the ZL site. As far as run times between the two it seems to be equal. I do note however the GA's do not even break a sweat in my high output lights at all and I get longer run time at the higher output levels vs the G cells.


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## StorminMatt (Apr 10, 2016)

Well, according to HJK's comparator, the NCR18650GA actually has slightly greater capacity than the NCR18650G above 2A. Below 2A, the GA is a little lower, but not much. The GA also holds a voltage better than the G.


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## etc (May 18, 2021)

Old but relevant thread.

Any input on this one? Is their protection circuit reliable? Orbtronic is out of all the things I want to buy.


https://liionwholesale.com/collecti...nyo-ncr18650ga-button-top?variant=12534255236


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