# Acriche photos... 230V / 3,3W



## Szemhazai (Jan 29, 2008)

Santa from UPS came today... :santa:












The era of the home lightning LED's begins... :thumbsup:

They are rated 3,3W @ 230V - so sunglasses on and testing in progress :devil:


----------



## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 29, 2008)

Is the emitter similar in size to the current CREE, SSC P4, LuxIII, etc...?

- Chris


----------



## Meduza (Jan 29, 2008)

I got a Ariche module coming with the postman any day now 

Really looking forward to look closer to this LED


----------



## Szemhazai (Jan 29, 2008)

Size... its like BigMac XXL 




Tiny father Cree XR-E on the left 

And some testing. It is really bright, it's hard to say but the light output very similar to 2xCree Q4 at 350mA.

Datashet :





And real voltage and current parameters : 

```
229,61 V         19,38 mA         4,4498W
```


----------



## Thujone (Jan 29, 2008)

So how long before someone puts a globe around this and sells it as a straight up replacement bulb?


----------



## Daekar (Jan 29, 2008)

Filing patents now... :laughing: It would make a fine appliance bulb if diffused properly I'm sure, but not bright enough for a regular bulb yet. Clustered for regular bulbs? Heck yes, I'm sure DX/Kaidomain will have them within a few weeks... lol.


----------



## Szemhazai (Jan 29, 2008)

They will have to resolve "small" problem three of these leds means 15W to cool down, 4 almost 20W... All in standard bulb size case ("_")


----------



## mds82 (Jan 29, 2008)

anywhere else you can buy these from??


----------



## Szemhazai (Jan 29, 2008)

In EU it's not a special problem - define "else" ?


----------



## znomit (Jan 29, 2008)

Can the LED be powered like a conventional one if you solder to the right spots?


----------



## Chriss (Jan 29, 2008)

Szemhazai said:


> In EU it's not a special problem - define "else" ?


Did you bought that in Suchy Dwór?


----------



## Frobe22 (Jan 30, 2008)

znomit said:


> Can the LED be powered like a conventional one if you solder to the right spots?



My guess for the LED chip terminals are about 20-40mA supply at 50-100V.
If you supply DC instead of AC only half of the die will light up.

Are anybody able to measure the chip voltage/current?


----------



## Szemhazai (Jan 30, 2008)

Frobe22 said:


> Are anybody able to measure the chip voltage/current?



Allready posted...

229,61 V
19,38 mA
=> 4,4498W


----------



## Jumi (Jan 30, 2008)

Nice pic of very interesting product.
It looks like there are four bigger dies in series and each bigger die consists 
3 dies in vertical and 5 dies in horizontal, so total 4x3x5=60dies?

So who has 230V DC power source so we could see which dies lights at positive side of sine way and which lights at negative side.
Or very fast camera and resistored ac.

Does it flicker?

Juha


----------



## Amonra (Jan 30, 2008)

Does anyone know whose dies they are using ? Cree, Lumileds, etc... ?
How many lumens ?


----------



## Szemhazai (Jan 30, 2008)

They are rated 195 [email protected] .


----------



## Chriss (Jan 30, 2008)

How much was these A3s and from which disti?


----------



## Szemhazai (Jan 30, 2008)

Chriss said:


> Did you bought that in Suchy Dwór?



No, I get them from Izabelin 

Tootal cost was about 26,5$ each, they will be in normal offer at www.sensu.pl in a week probably.


----------



## Mash (Jan 30, 2008)

Any idea if they would work with a normal household dimmer upstream? Or do they throw a hissy fit and blow up? No mention on the spec sheet....

PS the spec sheet also mentions needing to run a resistor with the acrcihe. Whats the deal with that?


----------



## Szemhazai (Jan 31, 2008)

I get in touch with our distributor, if you want to get these leds, you can mail :

```
a.nowicka(at)soyter.pl
```

She is quite helpful and ensured me that there should be no problem with international shipment - they also have USXOH, USYNH stars too  All branded and bin labelled, not these oem stuff from DX/kai.


----------



## VanIsleDSM (Jan 31, 2008)

Standard incandescent bulbs using a tungsten filament are fine being driven at such low frequencies (50-60hz) because the filament acts kind of like a capacitor for light and heat.. even when the current drops off the filament is slow to cool, and receives another burst of current again before the light output falls off much.. and thus flicker is barely even present, and not noticeable by anyone.

With LEDs that can turn on and off in 20ns, this is not the case.. people can notice up to 200hz in their peripheral vision.. this varies person to person. I don't think this is a good idea, convenient maybe.. but I'd much prefer a high efficiency rectifier and constant current driver.


----------



## Jumi (Feb 13, 2008)

Have you seen this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PuXaosHPzHg

Anyone used one yet? And how does it look like in real world use.

I really would like to use one but hesitate to buy since I'm afraid the flicker shows.

Juha


----------



## jtr1962 (Feb 13, 2008)

Jumi said:


> I really would like to use one but hesitate to buy since I'm afraid the flicker shows.


That's been a question I've had about these from day one-whether or not they flicker. Seems the answer is yes. From the video then it appears all they are is a bunch of series-connected dies directly run off AC. Bad idea. In fact, brain dead. People for years complained of the 60 Hz flicker from flourescents. Here they go and make an LED that does the _exact same thing_.  What on earth were they thinking? I hope these don't catch on to the point of giving LEDs a bad rap. SSC should put some filter caps on the next version.


----------



## evan9162 (Feb 13, 2008)

jtr1962 said:


> That's been a question I've had about these from day one-whether or not they flicker. Seems the answer is yes. From the video then it appears all they are is a bunch of series-connected dies directly run off AC. Bad idea. In fact, brain dead. People for years complained of the 60 Hz flicker from flourescents. Here they go and make an LED that does the _exact same thing_.  What on earth were they thinking? I hope these don't catch on to the point of giving LEDs a bad rap. SSC should put some filter caps on the next version.



Not to mention that voltage spikes/surges could cause (instant?) damage to the device. This is basically a string of LED Christmas lights crammed into a small package. Since one of the main selling point of LEDs is increased lifespan, the durability needs to be a design goal - a regulated power supply with OVP built in will need to be a part of the fixture design. An LED designed to hook directly to the mains will only encourage those features to be omitted for the sake of cost savings. Which won't help when the LEDs burn out the first time there is a significant voltage spike on the line.


----------



## AvPD (Feb 28, 2008)

jtr1962 said:


> What on earth were they thinking?


Saving 20% power consumption by not having to convert to DC perhaps?

I just realised (looking at them now) that compact fluorescents don't appear to have any flicker at all despite their similarity to the standard fluorescent tube. 

I'll wait until seeing an Acriche in person before issuing judgement. They have the advantage of being a point source of light, so as long as there is no gap in the light provided by the two banks of LEDs there should be no ambient flicker.


----------



## James Jackson (Feb 28, 2008)

" Anyone used one yet? And how does it look like in real world use.

I really would like to use one but hesitate to buy since I'm afraid the flicker shows."

I have been using the 'dual' LED version for almost a year now - in my bathroom. It gets used every morning for about 1.5 hours. In the evenings... around another .5 hours.

I find the light output from it is adequate for my early morning bathroom rituals of showering, shaving, etc.

I have it mounted to a flat 2"x2" heatsink, and this is pushed into an old CFL 'donor' base.

There is no flicker that I am aware of.

The light output is as advertised in their datasheet - as measured with a lightmeter.

Regards,

James Jackson
Oztronics


----------



## jtr1962 (Feb 29, 2008)

AvPD said:


> Saving 20% power consumption by not having to convert to DC perhaps?


120VAC rectifies to about 169VDC. The 1.4V across a full-wave bridge rectifier is only about an 0.8% loss. Use Schottky diodes to cut that down to about 0.6V drops your losses to under 0.4%.

A bigger concern is that these appear to basically be two sets of dies in series with one set being lit on each polarity of the AC waveform. Without any protection to limit voltage surges I question the long term reliability. A simple full-wave bridge rectifier combined with a filter cap would eliminate flicker while offering a little protection at the cost of well under 1% in extra power consumption. A full current source driver circuit would be even better in all regards, although it might waste another 4% or 5%. I couldn't imagine even the crappiest rectifier/driver setup wasting 20%.



> I just realised (looking at them now) that compact fluorescents don't appear to have any flicker at all despite their similarity to the standard fluorescent tube.


Because they run the tube at upwards of 25,000 Hz. Beyond a few thousand hertz, the time constant cycle of the tube is long enough that it doesn't turn on/off. In short-you don't see flicker because there is none. And standard (I assume you mean linear) T5 and T8 tubes don't flicker either these days because they're also driven on a high-frequency electronic ballast. Only the old-school T12s flicker, but you can even get retrofit electronic ballasts for those if you so desire.



> I'll wait until seeing an Acriche in person before issuing judgement. They have the advantage of being a point source of light, so as long as there is no gap in the light provided by the two banks of LEDs there should be no ambient flicker.


It'll be the same 120 Hz flicker as full-wave rectified LED Christmas lights, not as noticeable as 60 Hz but still irritating to some people.


----------



## evan9162 (Feb 29, 2008)

AvPD said:


> Saving 20% power consumption by not having to convert to DC perhaps?



But then they turn around and waste some power (10% or so) on current limiting resistors. I seriously doubt efficiency was on their minds when they chose the direct-to-AC configuration.

I'd bet that their primary motivation was actually to make these as cheap as possible and as easy to use as possible. However, the direct connection without any kind of current limiting or protection will cause these guys to take some serious damage the first time a power surge hits. These could go up in a cloud of smoke quite easily with a modest power surge....so much for LED longevity, eh?


----------



## SemiMan (Feb 29, 2008)

Should be something easily fixed with a cheap MOV. Not ideal, but it would be ok. That would at least eliminate the spikes and surges. Our power in N.A. is pretty stable. It is very rare to see anything over 125. I don't think I would use these in all markets.

Semiman


----------



## evan9162 (Feb 29, 2008)

Yep, a MOV would work...maybe for a few surges. Then you'd really want to replace it. MOVs work well on something that's easily replaced (like a surge supressor). However, these are probably intended to go in a fixture of some kind - replacing MOVs in a fixture on a regular basis kind of defeats one of the goals of LED lighting (long life/zero maintenance)

That, or you design it as a replacable/disposable module - again leading to one of those "what's the point?" moments.

Personally, I'd like to see an entirely different approach taken with LEDs in general lighting. Get rid of the whole idea of all the light coming from one fixture, and distribute the sources around a wide area. Incorporate the lights into the design and architecture of the room, and design them so they never have to be replaced. 

Why advertise lifespans in the 10s to 100s of thousands of hours only to have your light sources die when there's a slight power fluctuation?


----------



## Szemhazai (Mar 2, 2008)

I've made a toilet lamp on these...


----------



## AvPD (Mar 2, 2008)

So does the fact that it operates from AC make the job any easier?


----------



## Changchung (Mar 2, 2008)

That is big... How much that cost...???


----------



## Szemhazai (Mar 2, 2008)

AvPD said:


> So does the fact that it operates from AC make the job any easier?



A lot, you only need to connect the wires to the leds, stick the leds to a heatsink and turn the light on. :thumbsup:

No reverse polarity, no current setting :huh:

It's a bit pricey... 100$


----------



## SemiMan (Mar 2, 2008)

Yes if I was putting the MOV raw across the AC lines and letting it taking the whole voltage surge then it would possibly die quickly. However, put a resistor first before the MOV and it is likely going to last a very long time. Given the low curent of teh Acriche, you it would not impact the efficiency very much.

The other reason I would not agree with your argument is that I would need to protect anything I connected to the AC line including an AC\DC power supply that I use to power LEDs...generally I would do that with a MOV in the power supply, back/back zener, etc.

Of course you do make a point, if I have whole house surge protection, then I may not need to worry about an Acriche as much.

Semiman




evan9162 said:


> Yep, a MOV would work...maybe for a few surges. Then you'd really want to replace it. MOVs work well on something that's easily replaced (like a surge supressor). However, these are probably intended to go in a fixture of some kind - replacing MOVs in a fixture on a regular basis kind of defeats one of the goals of LED lighting (long life/zero maintenance)
> 
> That, or you design it as a replacable/disposable module - again leading to one of those "what's the point?" moments.
> 
> ...


----------



## VanIsleDSM (Mar 4, 2008)

A good bidirectional zener is much better than a MOV for voltage surges.

Are there constant current LED drivers on the market with anything much higher than 80% efficiency? I haven't seen one..

Rectified to 169VDC is pretty unusable.. need to get that down to about 48V for most LED systems.

Looking around at high quality 48V switching power supplies 85% seems to be about the best.. then about 97% efficiency on the constant current driver gives you just under 83% in total.

jtr, if you know of much more efficient ways to supply LEDs with constant current from household power, please divulge :naughty:


----------



## wkumtrider (Nov 12, 2009)

Its been over a year since the last post on this thread. Anyone know of a good source in the States to purchase these leds?


----------



## fyrstormer (Nov 12, 2009)

www.superbrightleds.com sells them.

This thread ticks me off. I have tried and tried and TRIED to get the Acriche samples I bought to work, even going so far as to alligator-clip the ends of an extension cord directly to the leads on the diodes, and they do NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. And do you think I can find a wiring diagram for the emitters that come pre-mounted on the octagonal backing plates? No. I can only find wiring diagrams for the bare emitters, which won't work for my application. So I can't even tell what I'm doing wrong.

But hey, it's nice to know someone got them to work; that means they're not _intended_ to be a ripoff, at any rate.

</rant>


----------



## bshanahan14rulz (Nov 12, 2009)

fyrstormer, you measured resistance? Isolating the thermal slug?


----------

