# I'm no Modder, but I can Solder. NovaTac 120 Upgrade!



## bansuri (Oct 10, 2009)

There is a proper Subforum for modding and modders, but I'm no modder and they speak a language over there that few of us do so I think most CPF members might not be inclined to browse around over there. So I completely understand if this gets moved or deleted, but I wanted to get this info out there if possible.
This whole project is CPF based. I found my 120E for $89 on LAPolice after browsing through GreenLED's fantastic CPF discount page, then I did the 250 Click Mod that LLCoolBeans posted about. Good so far, but there was the issue of the tint and output. The tint wasn't _bad_, just a bit blue-ish, especially when compared to my beloved Liteflux LF3XT, (thanks DHart!), and I imagined that the output could be just a bit higher.
Looked around and figured out that you couldn't just drop any old emitter in due to the limitations of the hole that the emitter mounts in, saw a modder who milled it out, but I didn't want to go to that extreme. Surfed around and saw this offered by PhotonFanatic and pulled the trigger on a couple.
And now my world is forever changed.
Here's the 45 minute, (I'm slow), modification:


Original emitter:





Original emitter removed. De-soldered and lifted out. "Held" in by thermal paste.:







The new emitter, legs straightened out:






Straightened vs. Unstraightened:






Put a blob of thermal paste down and soldered legs:






Here are the results comparing the LF3XT(which used to be just as bright and much more pleasing white) to the Novatac.







I am shocked by the results. I had to check the battery in the Liteflux to see if it was depleted. I have an EZ123 that I compared it to. Similar results, the Novatac stomps all over the EZ123 and leaves it looking blue.



*******Hints********
A large fingernail clipper helped get the emitter down to size. 
Use a VOM to determine the (+) side. I used the Ohm setting on the original and noticed which way the emitter lit up when touched with the test leads and oriented the replacement accordingly. 
A lighted magnifying lamp made the operation much easier.
Solder sucker is always helpful for this kind of work.
Use a low wattage iron and very thin solder. 


So, if you're feeling adventurous give it a try! Or, experiment on some DX cheapies first and then move up to the big guns.
I'm off to figure out the nomenclature of the modders and emitter gurus and then I'll be able to tell you what I've done to my light in proper terms.




Photography disclaimer: All pictures were taken with my iPhone. The closeups were done by placing a 30x DX loupe in front of the lens.
The beamshot makes it look like the LF3XT was very dim, it wasn't, it's just that the Novatac was so bright the camera used a fast "shutter speed".


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## waddup (Oct 10, 2009)

looks 10x brighter then the liteflux?

great job :thumbsup:

i havent had a single regret about selling my 120

until now


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## bansuri (Oct 10, 2009)

waddup said:


> looks 10x brighter then the liteflux?
> 
> great job :thumbsup:



Thanks! In person it is quite a bit brighter but that picture's exposure is stepped down so it doesn't do the Liteflux justice.
I'm just a parts hanger, so I don't know what the long-term effects of this mod may be. It gets pretty warm when running on high like that, but it's so much light that I may make full output the 4th setting on the 3x click and make the click + press/hold setting 80% or so.

If you've seen Spinal Tap, just think of Nigel's Marshall amps that go to 11. 
"Why not make 10 that much louder?"
"...These go to 11."


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## monanza (Oct 10, 2009)

Excellent mod. These are the best mods. Nothing extravagant required. A simple emitter swap and the 'dated' 120 is now a 200! Outstanding :thumbsup:

I would say you no longer need a new light but we all know that's not how it works.


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## Budman231 (Oct 10, 2009)

Nice job. What emitter did you use for this and where did you buy it ?

I just posted in the nodding forum exactly this topic.

Thanks,
Budman


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## Bort (Oct 10, 2009)

Very nice work. Thanks for posting the details. It makes me want to work on mine now!


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## bansuri (Oct 10, 2009)

Budman231 said:


> Nice job. What emitter did you use for this and where did you buy it ?
> 
> I just posted in the nodding forum exactly this topic.
> 
> ...


I got a couple from here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=190729

The sun has gone down now, I'm going out for a lightshow!


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## nanotech17 (Oct 10, 2009)

monanza said:


> Excellent mod. These are the best mods. Nothing extravagant required. A simple emitter swap and the 'dated' 120 is now a 200! Outstanding :thumbsup:
> 
> I would say you no longer need a new light but we all know that's not how it works.



i absolutely agree with you 110%


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## texbaz (Oct 10, 2009)

bansuri

Great job. I'm sitting here looking at my 85P and GC temp control soldering iron thinking maybe, a new emmitter will bring new life to this great light. I just wonder about the driver. Looks like photonfanatic was able to get your K2 tffc emitters pretty quick. Thanks for sharing.:thumbsup:


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## kz1000s1 (Oct 10, 2009)

I used the same emmiter in an 85P that already had a U bin Seoul P4. It made a big improvement. Now I just got an HDS EDC U60 that's going to get the same upgrade.


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## nanotech17 (Oct 10, 2009)

if anybody wants a full potential of lumens from these K2 TFFC TVOD,one should try power up the Novatac with AW IMR cells (16340 or 18650) and don't forget that UCL lens as well


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## gunga (Oct 10, 2009)

Really? I didn't think the AW protected RCR123s were limiiting a Novatac...


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## tebore (Oct 11, 2009)

gunga said:


> Really? I didn't think the AW protected RCR123s were limiiting a Novatac...



They aren't.


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## clintb (Oct 11, 2009)

What effect, if any, does this mod have on the low end output? I'd love to have a better color output, but not at the expense of the super low mode.


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## nanotech17 (Oct 11, 2009)

gunga said:


> Really? I didn't think the AW protected RCR123s were limiiting a Novatac...



it's hard to tell,but at the back of my mind tells me that with the IMR cells it is slightly brighter.


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## Nake (Oct 11, 2009)

I just went and tried mine with a few different cells. 

With an IMR at 4.2V the overall lux shows 14,800. With an AW black at 4.16V, 14,100 lux. I also tried an Ultrafire 1000mAh at 3.96V and it showed 15,100 lux:thinking:. An AW 17670 showed 15,000 lux. These readings were after a couple of minutes of settling down.

What nanotech probably remembers is the first time I took readings, right after the swap, the IMR showed 16,400 lux. My light putput was jumping around then, but has settled down since.

My lowest light output setting still shows .13lm, so it didn't go up much.

The emitter is from Photonfanatic.


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## jahxman (Oct 11, 2009)

Would this emitter work in a 85T? 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the driver might be slightly different, but I'm not sure if that was just Novatac trying to discourage modding.

How hard is the LED being driven at max on the 120?


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## sawlight (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm likeing this, a lot!


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## bansuri (Oct 11, 2009)

clintb said:


> What effect, if any, does this mod have on the low end output? I'd love to have a better color output, but not at the expense of the super low mode.





jahxman said:


> Would this emitter work in a 85T?
> 
> I seem to recall reading somewhere that the driver might be slightly different, but I'm not sure if that was just Novatac trying to discourage modding.
> 
> How hard is the LED being driven at max on the 120?



Here are some more shots, (with iPhone, please forgive).

EZ123 on high on left, 120E full output on right:





Another shot of the LF3XT on left on High and 120E on right, full output:





LF3XT on minimum on left, 120E minimum on right: 





These were taken while sitting pointing the lights at the ceiling, (9 1/2') and I centered away from the beam to help the exposure.
I haven't done any runtime tests yet, but I will.
Also need to figure out a way to get my VOM hooked up to get reading on current consumed.

So regarding the low setting: still nice and low.
I'll get back with ammeter readings ASAP.

I've settled in to the 4 modes programmed as such:
1C=lowest
2C=level 10
1C+PH=level 18 or 19
3C=100%

The full output is something that just wouldn't be practical in normal use so I put it on what I consider the "4th" setting.
Something my pathetic beamshots don't reveal is that the flood is pretty nice and the transition from the spot to flood is smooth, though not as smooth as the Liteflux, which is _very_ smooth. 
I don't understand any of this stuff, but I'm hoping that this emitter gets more lumens per unit of energy applied and will get longer runtimes when the output levels are set similar to the original emitter. If not, no huge loss as I prefer the lack of blue the new emitter presents and if I _really_ need some light it's in there.
Now I just need to figure out what to put the other emitter I bought in to!!!!


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## sawlight (Oct 11, 2009)

More stupid questions, I took mine apart to have a look, how did you get the LE out? What tools in particular please!
Have you changed out the lens as well with the UCL yet?
Also, I am asking a lot I know, could you provide just a couple more outdoor shots so we (I) can get a better idea of how the tint works with color rendition, please?


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## bansuri (Oct 11, 2009)

sawlight said:


> More stupid questions, I took mine apart to have a look, how did you get the LE out? What tools in particular please!
> Have you changed out the lens as well with the UCL yet?
> Also, I am asking a lot I know, could you provide just a couple more outdoor shots so we (I) can get a better idea of how the tint works with color rendition, please?


There are no stupid questions.
That said, what's an LE?
If it means light emitter, (just a guess), I desoldered the leads using a manual solder vacuum, it's like a biggish syringe that creates vacuum and sucks the solder away from a joint, after that I merely lifted the emitter out with some small needle-nose pliers. There's no guarantee that your light will be assembled exactly the way mine was, they may have used thermal _adhesive_ at some point. Proceed with caution!

There was a bunch of thermal paste in there that I didn't show but I'm sure you're now aware of.
I didn't know what a UCL was until yesterday so I'm still pondering that.
I'll go out and get some shots outside. Fun fun fun!
I'm gonna try my wife's Nikon D40. Knowing nothing about beamshots I will set it for a manual exposure rather than auto so comparison shots don't have a bias introduced by the camera's auto exposure.

Alright, that was embarassing. I'm gonna have to read up on taking proper beamshots. I could use the iPhone, but I don't think that will give you the color information you want.
I'll go look around for a how-to.


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## kz1000s1 (Oct 11, 2009)

jahxman said:


> Would this emitter work in a 85T?
> 
> I seem to recall reading somewhere that the driver might be slightly different, but I'm not sure if that was just Novatac trying to discourage modding.
> 
> How hard is the LED being driven at max on the 120?



Yes it will. I put one in an 85P an it worked well.


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## Armed_Forces (Oct 11, 2009)

Great work bansuri! :thumbsup:

Do you happen to know how much current is going to the emitter?
You would have needed to measure it before you soldered the leads. 
I haven't searched for this info but thought I would ask because I've had many of my colleagues ask me about upgrading their NovaTacs for better output. 
I think you've inspired me to offer this service.


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## sawlight (Oct 11, 2009)

The "LE" is the light engine, at least I think thats how the modders reffer to it. It's the base that the emitter sits on. You had to unscrew it, I think? somehow to get it out, that's my stopping point right now.
The I-phone pics are fine for what I want, I just know with my stock 120p much past 20ft I can't hardly see the leaves on the trees to define them. The greens really get lost with the blue tint of the emitter.


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## bansuri (Oct 11, 2009)

Armed_Forces said:


> Great work bansuri! :thumbsup:
> 
> Do you happen to know how much current is going to the emitter?
> You would have needed to measure it before you soldered the leads.
> ...


Thanks!

I was hoping to find a place to interrupt the signal on the switch end.
Maybe take off the switch cap and hook the VOM up between the (-) terminal and the body. I think that the separate path along the spring is for switching. I had a little luck earlier and saw .8 amps, but it was face-down and I don't know level it was. Thinking it through, I'll temporarily make the 1st level 100% so if I can get it to click on at all I'll see what the maximum draw is. 

tic toc tic toc....


Low = 8 mA
Level 10 = 20.5 mA
Level 15 = 150 ~ 120 mA. I don't have a great meter, had to switch to the 20A range.
Level 20 = 1.08A
High = 1.1 Amps with a fully charged UltraFire 3.6 16340, same with a brand new Battery Station CR123.

Adjust your error bars accordingly due to my inexperience in this field.
Sadly I didn't get a reading pre-mod so I have nothing to compare these numbers to. 1.1A seems like a lot of juice, but maybe someone else can chime in with some readings to compare it to.


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## bansuri (Oct 11, 2009)

sawlight said:


> The "LE" is the light engine, at least I think thats how the modders reffer to it. It's the base that the emitter sits on. You had to unscrew it, I think? somehow to get it out, that's my stopping point right now.
> The I-phone pics are fine for what I want, I just know with my stock 120p much past 20ft I can't hardly see the leaves on the trees to define them. The greens really get lost with the blue tint of the emitter.



I used some fine-tip needle nose pliers and spread them apart to apply outward and downward pressure on 2 of the 4 indents on the inside of the ring. 
I just took some iPhone pics but they really are not post-worthy. If you PM me your email address I'll send them to you, but I need to figure out how to take decent pics with the D40. These iPhone pics would get me banned.


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## Armed_Forces (Oct 11, 2009)

bansuri said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I was hoping to find a place to interrupt the signal on the switch end.
> Maybe take off the switch cap and hook the VOM up between the (-) terminal and the body. I think that the separate path along the spring is for switching. I had a little luck earlier and saw .8 amps, but it was face-down and I don't know level it was. Thinking it through, I'll temporarily make the 1st level 100% so if I can get it to click on at all I'll see what the maximum draw is.
> ...






Excellent, thanks for posting!

Notice what I asked above and the note about where to take the measurement.
The reason I'm mentioning this is because many here often miss or don't fully understand what is going on.
When you take a current measurement at the battery of a flashlight that is regulated you are measuring the battery draw but not necessarily what the emitter is being driven at. oo: 
The battery draw is very useful for comparative purposes but you need to do some ciphering to get the actual emitter current when you only have the draw at the tailcap. To do that you need to know how many cells are being used and their chemistry/voltage, the Vf (forward voltage) of the emitter and the converter efficiency/design. You then start ciphering, remembering to carry your naught! :thinking: As you can see, this involves maths and consequentially makes my head hurt. On the other hand it's actually quite easy and convenient to take these measurements when your building/modding your light. I know this is sounding like all that vodoo Mod talk but you are well on your way! :thumbsup:


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## sawlight (Oct 11, 2009)

The pics were fine for what I was after, thank you again

Very impressive change to a god light to start with, I hope to be able to do this soon myself!


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## bansuri (Oct 11, 2009)

Armed_Forces said:


> When you take a current measurement at the battery of a flashlight that is regulated you are measuring the battery draw but not necessarily what the emitter is being driven at. oo:



Ah, yes.. I see now! Tailcap numbers are useful for overall current usage when evaluating the light and battery requirements, but at the emitter measurements will allow you to see what's lost in regulation and how "hungry" the emitter is.
It won't take long to unsolder one leg and take the readings, I just need to figure out a way to hold it all with 2 hands. I think I'll just wire a couple leads between one of the legs and run them out the front of the light that way switching won't be a pain. It's too late to start that tonight, oh, and now I see a perfect circle in my right eye as I was checking out the emitter end with the light on low and went to shut it off but pressed the button too long and gave myself a blast!
:mecry:


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## Armed_Forces (Oct 11, 2009)

..you don't need to do that, I was just joking about the maths making my head hurt! 


You DO need to get a few accessories to help you in your new endeavors.

1st. ---> Alligator clip test leads

..those are Rat Shack's but any will do. You need small ones! Back in the day we actually made 'em. lol


2nd. --> Emitter Protection..thus -->


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## texbaz (Oct 12, 2009)

Bansuri

Did you use Thermal Paste or epoxy, What brand?

Thanks


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## bansuri (Oct 12, 2009)

texbaz said:


> Bansuri
> 
> Did you use Thermal Paste or epoxy, What brand?
> 
> Thanks



It looked like the stuff that was in there was just plain old thermal paste like you'd use between a processor and heat sink so I just used some that I had in my toolbox of computer junk. Just a drop under the emitter and some around the edge of the face of the LE. (Light engine, my new acronym!!!)
it definitely transfers the heat as the head warms up nicely after a little use on high.


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## Flashlike (Oct 13, 2009)

This looks like a relatively easy mod with good results! One advantage is that there is no problem centering the emitter since it fits in the cut out area that is already centered. 

Thanks for sharing this, Bansuri!


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## gunga (Oct 13, 2009)

My only concern with this, if you want to call it a concern, is that it changes the beam from a nice and smooth beam, great for close to medium range use, to a more spotty, throwy beam. Better for outdoors and distance, but not so great for close range use due to the hot spot.

Any opinions Bansuri?


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## kz1000s1 (Oct 13, 2009)

Flashlike said:


> This looks like a relatively easy mod with good results! One advantage is that there is no problem centering the emitter since it fits in the cut out area that is already centered.
> 
> Thanks for sharing this, Bansuri!



There can still be a potential centering problem if you don't trim the corners of the emmiter evenly. 

I happen to like the tighter beam and more throw.


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## tebore (Oct 13, 2009)

kz1000s1 said:


> There can still be a potential centering problem if you don't trim the corners of the emmiter evenly.
> 
> I happen to like the tighter beam and more throw.



Actually there shouldn't be. The newer NT like the older HDS have basically 2 centering mechanisms. The pocket in the heatsink being one and the second is the smaller opening in the reflector. I noticed in the later revisions of the NT the opening in the reflector is almost exactly the size of the dome of the LED. As you tighting the retaining ring it should center the LED.


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## heckboy (Oct 14, 2009)

This thread showed up just in time! I had been wondering what kind of mod I could pull on a Novatac and here it is.

I'm off to order a couple of K2 and stalk the BST forums for another Novatac.

Thanks for posting the inspiration.

Later,
HB


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## sawlight (Oct 14, 2009)

Well I pulled the trigger tonight, I ordered the UCL from Lighthound then a K2 and thermal epoxy from Photon fanatic.
I was eyeing the new RA lights, but I don't like the interface as well, they are a bit bigger, and the cost is high!
For under $30 and a little time, this should be a nice improvement to my favorite, but dated light! Thanks to bansuri for idea and motivation to do this!:candle:


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## bansuri (Oct 14, 2009)

Sorry I haven't posted back, life pulled me away.
Tonight I did the best I could with my limited understanding of my wife's camera, (it's a nikon d40 if anyone wants to chime in at any point.).
I set it on auto with no flash and shined the lights at a 4-3/4" piece of paper clipped to a tree about 50' away. Camera was tripod mounted with the focusing square directly on the piece of paper.


This is a Fenix TK20 with fresh Enloops.






Here is a Liteflux LF3XT with a fully charged rcr123.





Here's the modded Novatac 120E with fully charged rcr123.








As you can see my aim was a little off because I had distractions, but overall this is pretty close. The Liteflux looks better in person, I moved the light during the shot.
Regarding the Novatac being all spot: I think that is a false impression the iPhone photos I posted earlier gave. It's still good up close, you just have to turn it down or it blinds you. It also eats batteries at an alarming rate.

For me the Novatac body fits my hand best but I prefer the UI of the LF3XT so I'm thinking about getting a used LF3XT and swapping the electronics in to a Novatac. The electronics and output of the LF3XT are superb but the body doesn't do it for me. But, that's another thread.

As far as this project goes: 

- This mod won't suspend the laws of physics, runtime is pathetic on full output.

+ It packs a punch for an EDC on 100%.

+ I prefer the tint of this emitter, you may also.

+ It's a cheap mod that might distract from buying a new light for a little while.


I'm looking in to what it will take for me to get some real runtimes.


EDIT: Uploaded properly exposed photos. Well, _more_ properly than the others. Not perfect, but closer to what the naked eye would see when comparing the 3 lights. Probably could've bumped the exposure up to 4 seconds but it's hard to see out in the yard whether they look good or not.
The trees I'm shining them at are these horrible, perpetually dead looking fruit trees that have leaves on top but all the lower limbs appear dead, but keep growing. So the bottom of the tree really does look like that.


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## Pöbel (Oct 15, 2009)

unfortunatelly those pics are not really comparable as you set your camera to auto. Next time set it to manual so all the pics are taken with the same settings.

exposures

first pic: 6s - 2nd pic: 3s - 3rd pic: 3,6s


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## bansuri (Oct 15, 2009)

Pöbel said:


> unfortunatelly those pics are not really comparable as you set your camera to auto. Next time set it to manual so all the pics are taken with the same settings.
> 
> exposures
> 
> first pic: 6s - 2nd pic: 3s - 3rd pic: 3,6s


Thanks Pobel,
I brought my LF2 outside with me to work with setting the camera, I couldn't get the manual mode to work before because the switch on the lens was set to auto and it couldn't find anything to get it's focus so it wouldn't shoot.
Exposed them all at 3 seconds. Not as bright as in person, but the differences between them is better represented.


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## merlocka (Oct 17, 2009)

This post has made my day. 

I will post the results of my mod once I get everything in.

I also ordered a 17650 tube in case I get addicted to high mode and need a little more juice


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## gunga (Oct 17, 2009)

PLease keep up the info folks. My Novatac already has a high CRI seoul in it, I'm deciding if I want a K2 in there instead.

I have none in hand and am itching to get the mod done, still deciding on the emitter...

So the ones from Photon Fanatic (TVOD) are still pretty cool tint vs the neutral crees and high CRI seouls right?


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## sawlight (Oct 17, 2009)

WOW!! Just WOW!!
I tried getting before and after beamshots, but I was to stupid to figure out the wifes camera. I got her, she couldn't do it either, sorry!
I got my butt kicked a bit, first time I wired it wrong, and I will NEVER use the Ceramiqe again, it hardens and is a PITA to work with, realy bad in the threads and I used too much!
I got my UCL and LED all in one day, the tint is beyond belief! It's VERY close to an incan, I can easily define leaves in the trees now, I really like the color, man do I like the color!
Yes, it does turn it into more of a thrower, it's no longer the nice wall we have come to love in the E2E or L1. It has a nice spill, but not what you are used to, it has a tight hot spot, like double the original 120P, then a fill at around 35deg.. It's odd the emitter can change it that much but this one does. This turns it into a real pocket rocket, if you want to impress your buddies and leave people speachless this is it, just have batteries on hand!!
I make the last comment due to the fact within five seconds of hitting high my light goes into PWM and I can see it drop. I need to upgrade my batteries, I am using Battery station 3vRCR123's. I don't think they have the power to pull this emitter properly.
Also, when I disassembled it, before I even had the soldering iron warmed up, I noticed the dome on the OE emitter was soft, almost gummy? I could easily stick a fingernail in into it. The new one was hard as a rock (as it should be) but this concerns me.
I regret loosing some of the flood I had, but I wont cry because the tint more than makes up for it! Then you think about how much a RA clicky costs vs. what I could get for a 120P on BST, for under $30 it really changes the dynamics of a really good light, and I think it's for the better, with the small trade off of floodiness. I can learn to live with that I think.


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## gunga (Oct 17, 2009)

Sorry, you are saying the TVOD from Photonfanatic is close to Incan?

I heard it was warmish but still quite cool vs say Cree 5A etc...



I have to admit, I'm having trouble deciding, tho I'm warming up to the idea of more thorw in the Novatac...


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## bansuri (Oct 17, 2009)

Are you doing the battery reset before operating? If not it may be expecting a different voltage.
I wonder if using a shim to pull the emitter a little further back in the reflector would do anything? I think I'll try that and post back results.
I find the full output to be just 
DUDE! I just pulled the front end off and pulled the reflector out just a tiny bit and this changes it completely! A 1MM shim would probably do fine.
You can hold it horizontal and work the reflector back in and it goes from being a FLOOD MONSTER to the spotty profile!
I suppose an aluminum washer or really anything as there is a flange there that transfers the heat to the body. I don't know if it's relying on the reflector for much thermal relief.
Please verify my findings if possible.


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## sawlight (Oct 17, 2009)

The K2 I got from Photon fantatic, the link is in the first post, is VERY warm. I am very suprised, and happy so far, with what I have changed. It's not a 9P with the EO9 in it, but for a compromise as most EDC's are, I really think this upgrade made a good light that much closer to being perfect.


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## bansuri (Oct 18, 2009)

I don't have any plastic shim stock of assorted sizes and metal won't work since it's right over the legs so I used a 3-hole punch to punch a hole in a wide rubber band and cut around the hole, essentially making a rubber washer. An O-ring was way too thick and I think this may be a little off also.
I'll post back when I get some real, verifiable results.
Perhaps a visit to Checkered Flag Hobby Country will yield the raw material I need. It's definitely less than 1mm. How much? I can't say for certain.


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## sawlight (Oct 18, 2009)

bansuri said:


> Are you doing the battery reset before operating? If not it may be expecting a different voltage.
> I wonder if using a shim to pull the emitter a little further back in the reflector would do anything? I think I'll try that and post back results.
> I find the full output to be just
> DUDE! I just pulled the front end off and pulled the reflector out just a tiny bit and this changes it completely! A 1MM shim would probably do fine.
> ...


 
Sorry, I missed this post completly last night. I will play with that in a bit and see how the reflector changes it.
I've been running the rechargable batteries for the last year and set the level when I first changed over, I don't think I would need to reset it now?


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## bansuri (Oct 18, 2009)

Probably not, but it's a pretty easy operation if you want to be sure. I had mine set wrong at one point and it did what you described.

From Novatac:
1. Turn the light on. 
2. Unscrew the battery case until the light turns off. 
3. Screw the battery case back together; there will be one second 
of dim light. 
4. During the one second of dim light, press and hold the button. 
5. You will see ﬁve seconds of bright light, followed by dim light. 
6. Release the button when the light goes dim. 
7. The Battery-Detect-Reset is complete. 

From me:
When they say dim, they mean reduced, not off completely. Amazingly the only difference between this and the full reset which requires another application of the 250-click-crack is the last step. If you wait til the light goes out it goes to full factory reset. DAMHIK! (DontAskMeHowIKnow)
It's also an important function to have memorized in case you ever get in a situation where you have no alternative but to switch to primaries.

I'm going to see if I can find some .015" stock and make some spacers and stack them up until it gets just right.


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## sawlight (Oct 18, 2009)

The battery resest didn't change anything, like I said I really think its the 3v. rechargables that are the problem.
I played with moving the reflector in and out, I can't tell how far in or out I am moving it, it just moves too much on me to easily. It does change the beam pattern, but it's not dark enough yet to tell for sure what is happening, it does get floody, I just can't tell how floody, nor can I tell how much light is being lost to the backside of the refelctor.


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## Bort (Oct 18, 2009)

Thanks for starting this thread! 
I broke the retaining ring loose with some snap ring pliers. It cracked the adhesive nicely. Now I can't wait to get the emitter in the mail to finish the job.


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## bansuri (Oct 18, 2009)

sawlight said:


> it does get floody, I just can't tell how floody, nor can I tell how much light is being lost to the backside of the refelctor.



I have given up on this aspect and put the reflector back in with no spacer. Even though I had only lifted the reflector up the thickness of a rubber band it seemed like I was losing some brightness. 
At this point I'm gonna say "good enough" and accept any change in the beam profile. It's groovy enough for me as is.
If any Novatac 120 (w/original emitters) owners live in the St. Louis or surrounding area and want to get together somewhere that I could get a joint beamshot on a wall somewhere we could put up a side-by-side comparison that potential modders could use as a reference. PM me.



Bort said:


> Thanks for starting this thread!
> I broke the retaining ring loose with some snap ring pliers. It cracked the adhesive nicely. Now I can't wait to get the emitter in the mail to finish the job.


Your welcome! I must have got lucky with mine, no adhesive anywhere on it. Please post with your evaluation of the upgrade. And if you really want to do it right, take some before shots! As you've no doubt gathered by now - I didn't.


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## sawlight (Oct 18, 2009)

I tried to get them!! But hopefully come Christmas I can do a side by side comparison with my BIL's 120P. Hopefully we can figure out a camera between now and then!


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## Blindasabat (Oct 19, 2009)

I've seen that several people are seeing far different results (brightness) from the K2 emitters. I suspect that the Novatac driver is Voltage regulated, not current regulated. So if you put in PhotonFanatic's TV0D K2 with a Vf of 3.03(ish) then it supplies more current due to the current-Vf curves (see the spec sheets) - which is OK since we have so many lower levels to choose from - but others with higher Vf bin K2's will see different results *IF* this is the case. People should list what K2 they have in this thread to help determine if this is the case.

If that is true, then the typically low Vf Rebels and XP-G emitters should work well too.

I'm just glad I got two of the TV0D emitters when I did. I have one running Direct drive (DD) off RCR's (see my Avater pic) and it pulls a lot of current when you feed it 3.7V. Over 2 Amps. If this is the case for the NT, then I would suggest nobody with the TV0D or other emitter that doubles the output via low Vf use Max for over a minute or two as it could overheat the circuitry. Even if the light is designed to run at 1 Amp for extended periods, 2+ Amps could fry it. YMMV, UAYOR - use at your own risk.


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## sawlight (Oct 19, 2009)

The emitter I am using is the same, from the same thread, that bansuri linked, from Photon Fanatic. Nothing is different in my aplication other than the UCL.
I need to try my light on primaries, or just bite the bullet and get some AW RCR123's and dump the BS 3v rechargables. They have done VERY well for the better than year I have used them, but I really don't think they have the power to pull this emitter.


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## Blindasabat (Oct 20, 2009)

I don't think your batteries are holding you back in any way besides run time. The HDS/Novatacs generally have the same output on CR123, 3V RCR, RCR123, or IMR123. I have both 3V and 3.7V RCR's and the 3V have less Amp-hours so therefore less runtime, but they perform much more like RCR's than CR123's voltage-wise. Also, they have less internal resistance then CR123's so they have less voltage sag in lights where that matters, like lights with low quality drivers or DD lights. The Novatac is neither of these. They should be fine power-wise, just not as good in run-time.


sawlight said:


> ...I need to try my light on primaries, or just bite the bullet and get some AW RCR123's and dump the BS 3v rechargables. They have done VERY well for the better than year I have used them, but I really don't think they have the power to pull this emitter.


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## Nake (Oct 20, 2009)

Blindasabat said:


> I don't think your batteries are holding you back in any way besides run time. The HDS/Novatacs generally have the same output on CR123, 3V RCR, RCR123, or IMR123. I have both 3V and 3.7V RCR's and the 3V have less Amp-hours so therefore less runtime, but they perform much more like RCR's than CR123's voltage-wise. Also, they have less internal resistance then CR123's so they have less voltage sag in lights where that matters, like lights with low quality drivers or DD lights. The Novatac is neither of these. They should be fine power-wise, just not as good in run-time.


 
They affect mine with the K2. It didn't with the Seoul though. :thinking:


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## Blindasabat (Oct 20, 2009)

I did just see in another thread that somebody measured much higher lumens with RCR than other batteries. :thinking: I remember reading several times before that HDS and NT regulated to exactly the rated Lumens no matter the battery put in it. Now I'm reading different results for people. Odd. I wonder if the different (Lower) Vf of TV0D K2's are dropping out of the regulating range of the driver...?


Nake said:


> They affect mine with the K2. It didn't with the Seoul though. :thinking:


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## Bort (Oct 24, 2009)

I got the K2 emitter installed. The color rendition with this emitter is better than any other LED light that I own. 
On max brightness, the light kicks in to thermal protection after a few minutes. It appears that I will be using the max setting for short bursts only, as it is hammering the RCR cell pretty hard also. 
I think that the K2 mod is well worth the effort. I definitely will be looking for another configuration for another build up - the search is on for a good host, and driver.

On another note, it doesn't appear that the reflector is a heat sink itself, but it does provide force against the emitter to press the emitter into the heat sink for thermal transfer. 
The reflector can also keep the heat sink from making positive thermal contact to the head tube if it is screwed in tightly prior to inserting the heat sink, and tightening the retaining ring. 
I pulled the reflector out to verify good thermal contact, and that thermal compound was squirting out where the heat sink butts against the head tube.


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## bansuri (Oct 24, 2009)

Bort said:


> On another note, it doesn't appear that the reflector is a heat sink itself, but it does provide force against the emitter to press the emitter into the heat sink for thermal transfer.
> The reflector can also keep the heat sink from making positive thermal contact to the head tube if it is screwed in tightly prior to inserting the heat sink, and tightening the retaining ring.
> I pulled the reflector out to verify good thermal contact, and that thermal compound was squirting out where the heat sink butts against the head tube.



That's a great concept to point out. Even if it's .005" away from the flange it's not going to transfer the heat effectively.


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## nanotech17 (Oct 24, 2009)

Bort said:


> I got the K2 emitter installed. The color rendition with this emitter is better than any other LED light that I own.
> On max brightness, the light kicks in to thermal protection after a few minutes. It appears that I will be using the max setting for short bursts only, as it is hammering the RCR cell pretty hard also.
> I think that the K2 mod is well worth the effort. I definitely will be looking for another configuration for another build up - the search is on for a good host, and driver.
> 
> ...



My NT120T never had a kicks in to thermal protection after a few minutes, it runs well with AW IMR18650 & AW IMR16340 until the cell run out of juice at 3.0V,i only use Arctic Silver underneath the K2.


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## Bort (Oct 24, 2009)

nanotech17 said:


> My NT120T never had a kicks in to thermal protection after a few minutes, it runs well with AW IMR18650 & AW IMR16340 until the cell run out of juice at 3.0V,i only use Arctic Silver underneath the K2.



Interesting. Can you run it continuously on max until the battery depletes to 3.0v? I definitely noticed it ramp down 1 level after a few minutes on max.


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## tebore (Oct 24, 2009)

The older Novatacs drove the emitters harder than the newer ones. The newer ones likely won't drop down as quickly as the older ones or at all.


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## Bort (Oct 24, 2009)

tebore said:


> The older Novatacs drove the emitters harder than the newer ones. The newer ones likely won't drop down as quickly as the older ones or at all.



Thanks for the information.


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## tebore (Oct 24, 2009)

As for the brightness on different batteries it is suggested to factory reset the light afteran LED swap so the electronics can get the proper vf for the LED when it's cool. I don't pretend to know how the light works but the regulation seems to factor vf, Vin, and temperature. At least it does in the HDS.


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## bansuri (Oct 24, 2009)

tebore said:


> As for the brightness on different batteries it is suggested to factory reset the light afteran LED swap so the electronics can get the proper vf for the LED when it's cool. I don't pretend to know how the light works but the regulation seems to factor vf, Vin, and temperature. At least it does in the HDS.


That's an interesting idea, think I'll give it a try.

Of course that means I'll be doing the 250 click trick again. 

Fortunately it's gotten easier after a couple times to perfect my technique.


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## sawlight (Oct 25, 2009)

sawlight said:


> The K2 I got from Photon fantatic, the link is in the first post, is VERY warm. I am very suprised, and happy so far, with what I have changed. It's not a 9P with the EO9 in it, but for a compromise as most EDC's are, I really think this upgrade made a good light that much closer to being perfect.


 
I must recant on this statement, I am in awe even! It IS brighter than my 9P with the EO-9 in it, I even changed the batteries, but yes, it out throws it!!



Bort said:


> Interesting. Can you run it continuously on max until the battery depletes to 3.0v? I definitely noticed it ramp down 1 level after a few minutes on max.


 
Yes, you can run it, I have run mine several min. at a time, several times, and it still runs fine!


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## bansuri (Oct 25, 2009)

sawlight said:


> I must recant on this statement, I am in awe even! It IS brighter than my 9P with the EO-9 in it, I even changed the batteries, but yes, it out throws it!!



It's almost obscene how freakin bright it is. I went for a walk with the kids tonight and bumped it up to 100% but never more than a couple seconds because it just lights up everything like a police helicopter. I felt like I was doing something illegal.
Inefficient? yeah, but a ton of fun!


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## nanotech17 (Oct 25, 2009)

Bort said:


> Interesting. Can you run it continuously on max until the battery depletes to 3.0v? I definitely noticed it ramp down 1 level after a few minutes on max.



Of course my NT120T will drop to another level once the battery started to drain but not within a few minutes i would say more towards 30minutes or so.


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## Bort (Oct 25, 2009)

sawlight said:


> Yes, you can run it, I have run mine several min. at a time, several times, and it still runs fine!





nanotech17 said:


> Of course my NT120T will drop to another level once the battery started to drain but not within a few minutes i would say more towards 30minutes or so.



It looks like the drop in level was due to the cell itself. I tried a couple of new cells- ( they are all AW protected RCR123) and I was able to run it several minutes at a time without any drop in levels. I still don't feel comfortable depleting the cells that quickly. I will still limit it to short bursts on Max although I'm glad to know the variable that caused the decrease in levels. This upgrade really is well worth it



bansuri said:


> it just lights up everything like a police helicopter. I felt like I was doing something illegal.
> Inefficient? yeah, but a ton of fun!



I concur!!


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## nanotech17 (Oct 25, 2009)

i'm using AW IMR18650.


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## Bort (Oct 25, 2009)

nanotech17 said:


> i'm using AW IMR18650.



I think using the 18650 configuration makes alot of sense running this emitter.
Does the light get hot running it on max for more than a couple of minutes? 
I would think using the longer battery tube would help dissipate some heat.


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## sawlight (Oct 25, 2009)

A buddy came over the other night to carve a pumkin with my son, he did the spider and wanted to take some pics of his work. We set my Novatac on high and set it inside the pumkin, it was on for better than three min., no real discernable heat, it didn't even really get warm.
As for the concern with the RCR123's discharge rate, Light hound still has the 17670 tubes, would that be a better option for this?


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## nanotech17 (Oct 25, 2009)

Bort said:


> I think using the 18650 configuration makes alot of sense running this emitter.
> Does the light get hot running it on max for more than a couple of minutes?
> I would think using the longer battery tube would help dissipate some heat.



yeah i prefer the longer tube and yes it gets hot after couple of minutes,but with AW IMR16340 is not bad either but runtime is shorter compare AW RCR123.


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## Bort (Oct 25, 2009)

nanotech17 said:


> Of course my NT120T will drop to another level once the battery started to drain but not within a few minutes i would say more towards 30minutes or so.



Thanks for the input. This has definitely been an interesting mod.




sawlight said:


> As for the concern with the RCR123's discharge rate, Light hound still has the 17670 tubes, would that be a better option for this?



Looks like a good idea.

I am planning on a build-up using another TVOD emitter. I think that at least one or two 18650 configuration, and a larger heat sink, and reflector would be a good way to go.
Not a pocket rocket, but would be a fun project.


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## get-lit (Oct 25, 2009)

Could a Fenix P1 or a Fenix P1D be modded with the K2?


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## matrixshaman (Oct 25, 2009)

Blindasabat said:


> I've seen that several people are seeing far different results (brightness) from the K2 emitters. I suspect that the Novatac driver is Voltage regulated, not current regulated. So if you put in PhotonFanatic's TV0D K2 with a Vf of 3.03(ish) then it supplies more current due to the current-Vf curves (see the spec sheets) - which is OK since we have so many lower levels to choose from - but others with higher Vf bin K2's will see different results *IF* this is the case. People should list what K2 they have in this thread to help determine if this is the case.
> 
> If that is true, then the typically low Vf Rebels and XP-G emitters should work well too.
> 
> I'm just glad I got two of the TV0D emitters when I did. I have one running Direct drive (DD) off RCR's (see my Avater pic) and it pulls a lot of current when you feed it 3.7V. Over 2 Amps. If this is the case for the NT, then I would suggest nobody with the TV0D or other emitter that doubles the output via low Vf use Max for over a minute or two as it could overheat the circuitry. Even if the light is designed to run at 1 Amp for extended periods, 2+ Amps could fry it. YMMV, UAYOR - use at your own risk.



Glad someone finally brought this up as I'm fairly sure this cool mod is working to create such intense brightness for the reasons mentioned above. That is I'm fairly sure due to the nature of the Novatac circuit and the lower Vf on the K2's that you are really pulling a lot of current. It may be wise to use full blast with discretion and for short periods. I'd be the most concerned about the circuit itself overheating. But if you really want to hot rod this mod so you can put even more amps to the LED without concern about the circuit being damaged you might look at this driver here as it will safely do around 3.4 Amps to 4.5 Amps (temp dependent) and has adjustable thermal shutdown settings. I know it fits in the Novatac as darkzero put one in this type of body with a P7 that I've got and it is pulling over 3 amps with an IMR 16340.

:thumbsup: to bansuri for trying this and all the info here. I'm sort of tempted to give it a shot myself on one of the used Novatac's I picked up for cheap on CPFM. Seems like a fairly easy way to get a big boost in light output on a great host.


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## Nake (Oct 25, 2009)

get-lit said:


> Could a Fenix P1 or a Fenix P1D be modded with the K2?


 
I've got one in a P2D with a Rebel reflector, so it should work in a P1D since the reflectors are interchangable on those models. The head cap has to be backed off 1/2 a turn for focus though.

I tried with a smooth Cree reflector and it had to be backed off 2 turns for focus. The hotspot had a dark ring around it, bigger than with a Cree emitter. The spill also had artifacts in it.

With an OP Cree reflector it had to be backed off 2 turns again for focus. The beam was pretty nice with just a hint of the dark ring and the spill was artifact free.

I can't say about the P1. The reflector is smaller dia. and won't fit in the P2D head.

Edit; I was just thinking, with the P1D the pill would have to be screwed out two turns for focus. That would have the top O-ring come out of the headcap causing it to lose it's tightness, making the light unusable. Even when I screw it out 1/2 a turn it becomes loose.


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## get-lit (Oct 25, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> Glad someone finally brought this up as I'm fairly sure this cool mod is working to create such intense brightness for the reasons mentioned above. That is I'm fairly sure due to the nature of the Novatac circuit and the lower Vf on the K2's that you are really pulling a lot of current. It may be wise to use full blast with discretion and for short periods. I'd be the most concerned about the circuit itself overheating. But if you really want to hot rod this mod so you can put even more amps to the LED without concern about the circuit being damaged you might look at this driver here as it will safely do around 3.4 Amps to 4.5 Amps (temp dependent) and has adjustable thermal shutdown settings. I know it fits in the Novatac as darkzero put one in this type of body with a P7 that I've got and it is pulling over 3 amps with an IMR 16340.
> 
> :thumbsup: to bansuri for trying this and all the info here. I'm sort of tempted to give it a shot myself on one of the used Novatac's I picked up for cheap on CPFM. Seems like a fairly easy way to get a big boost in light output on a great host.


 
Thanks for the driver information, that was very helpful!


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## get-lit (Oct 25, 2009)

Nake said:


> I've got one in a P2D with a Rebel reflector, so it should work in a P1D since the reflectors are interchangable on those models. The head cap has to be backed off 1/2 a turn for focus though.
> 
> I tried with a smooth Cree reflector and it had to be backed off 2 turns for focus. The hotspot had a dark ring around it, bigger than with a Cree emitter. The spill also had artifacts in it.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks at lot! You saved me the $50 cost of experimentation.

Might have to look to the custom builders for a host that will work that is as small as the P1D.


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## Budman231 (Oct 28, 2009)

This is an awesome mod. Freakin BRIGHT ! Outside it's as bright as my quark 1x123t ! Very happy with the result !


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## leefraczek (Oct 29, 2009)

Thanks Bansuri and all contributors for all the great info and details. I've been trying to decide between a RA clicky (with it's ugly clip and seemingly not so hot QC ) or a slightly dim Novatac. You guys just answered my question! It's not that you have to use it on max often, but a blast here and there will bring a smile. And besides I like to fiddle with my battery charger once in a while too. 
If any of the modified units have any problems, please keep us imformed here, since we are not really modders!

Bansuri, I hope your eye gets better.

Leelovecpf


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## nanotech17 (Oct 29, 2009)

next up is to install the XPG-R5 on a 10MM board


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## bansuri (Oct 29, 2009)

Me too! I just got my emitters in and saw this thread today! 
Looks doable. 
Must.Mod.Everything.


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## nanotech17 (Oct 29, 2009)

bansuri said:


> Me too! I just got my emitters in and saw this thread today!
> Looks doable.
> Must.Mod.Everything.



Lets us know the process of cutting that 10MM board to 8mm board


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 3, 2009)

nanotech17 said:


> Lets us know the process of cutting that 10MM board to 8mm board



I put an XPG-R5 on a 10mm board in my HDS U60GT last night.
I'll do a thread with details later. No special tools were needed. I used 
side cutters and a utility knife to trim the board. The results look the same as
in the Novatac XPG link. Beam quality is good even with a smooth HDS
reflector. Output is an estimated 200-220 lumens OTF compared to a 170 lumen Quark in a ceiling bounce test.


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## gunga (Nov 3, 2009)

Hmmm, so is this better than a K2 TVOD mod?

Sucks since I just got my K2s...


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## nanotech17 (Nov 3, 2009)

kz1000s1 said:


> I put an XPG-R5 on a 10mm board in my HDS U60GT last night.
> I'll do a thread with details later. No special tools were needed. I used
> side cutters and a utility knife to trim the board. The results look the same as
> in the Novatac XPG link. Beam quality is good even with a smooth HDS
> reflector. Output is an estimated 200-220 lumens OTF compared to a 170 lumen Quark in a ceiling bounce test.



Cool,now this thing can surely throw with IMS 20mm :devil:
:thanks:


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 3, 2009)

gunga said:


> Hmmm, so is this better than a K2 TVOD mod?
> 
> Sucks since I just got my K2s...



In a lot of ways it is, but there's nothing wrong with the K2 either.
Especially is you like a warmer tint. I had one I was going to put in this light that ended up being inop. A U-bin P4 went in instead while waiting for the XP-G. The K2 is also easier to install than the XP-G.


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## conor (Nov 4, 2009)

Hmmm will this mod work in a HDS EDC 42?

my P4 USW0H isnt bright to me any more haha


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## jonesy (Nov 5, 2009)

What kind of lumens does this mod make over stock? I have one of the newer black anodized 120P's, and although I love the UI, size, build quality, etc., the beam tint leaves something to be desired!

Could someone like me, who has never modded a light before, pull off this one?


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## sawlight (Nov 5, 2009)

I think i't's estimated at 170 out the front lumens, I cannot say for sure, but the tint makes this mod! It's much closer to an incan and color definition is unreal after the stock emitter!
I had neer modded a light before, other than changing out a bulb assembly, and pulled this one off! It's easy, you have to trim the new LED just a little to get it to fit, make sure it's wired right, mine wasn't the first time, and put on some thermal paste. Really it's that easy, even if you wire it wrong, all you have to do is unsolder it and turn it around.
It's worth the effort, cheap, and makes the 120p into a new beast!


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## Flashlike (Nov 5, 2009)

sawlight said:


> I think i't's estimated at 170 out the front lumens, I cannot say for sure, but the tint makes this mod! It's much closer to an incan and color definition is unreal after the stock emitter!
> I had neer modded a light before, other than changing out a bulb assembly, and pulled this one off! It's easy, you have to trim the new LED just a little to get it to fit, make sure it's wired right, mine wasn't the first time, and put on some thermal paste. Really it's that easy, even if you wire it wrong, all you have to do is unsolder it and turn it around.
> It's worth the effort, cheap, and makes the 120p into a new beast!



Exactly what do you mean when you say that the new K2 LED has to be "trimmed" just a little to make it fit?


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## sawlight (Nov 5, 2009)

I followed along the lines of the OP and used a large pair of fingernail clippers. You will have to trim some of the plastic housing off the LED, mainly just trim off the square corners so it fits in a round hole.
It's really easy, I promise!


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## nanotech17 (Nov 5, 2009)

my XPG-R5 just arrived :kiss:
i gonna do a minor surgery on my Black Novatac which has U2SVOH in it but i gonna do it really slow - no rushing here :naughty:
my Olive Novatac with K2 TVOD stay put :devil:


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 6, 2009)

nanotech17 said:


> my XPG-R5 just arrived :kiss:
> i gonna do a minor surgery on my Black Novatac which has U2SVOH in it but i gonna do it really slow - no rushing here :naughty:
> my Olive Novatac with K2 TVOD stay put :devil:



Great! I'm curious how they compare. The K2 I had was in an 85P.


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## KDOG3 (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm watching this thread VERY closely. I'm considering ordering a new Ra light and would definetly be interested in squeezing all the performance out if it as I can....


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## sawlight (Nov 6, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> I'm watching this thread VERY closely. I'm considering ordering a new Ra light and would definetly be interested in squeezing all the performance out if it as I can....


 

I was in the same boat, I was ready to order a new RA and then sell my Novatac when I got it. With this K2 upgrade, I am happy! VERY HAPPY!! The color rendetion is phenominal, you loose a little of the flood, but I still find the light more than usefull, and it cost me $30 with the UCL, LED and paste.
Money well spent IMO!


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## KDOG3 (Nov 6, 2009)

I mean I'm hoping the Ra can accomodate an upgrade. I like the idea of increased output and more throw. But I hear it may lose effiency. Is that the case?


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## bansuri (Nov 6, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> I mean I'm hoping the Ra can accomodate an upgrade. I like the idea of increased output and more throw. But I hear it may lose effiency. Is that the case?



I'll let you know, I bought an Ra Twisty 120 specifically for this project.


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## Gatsby (Nov 6, 2009)

bansuri said:


> I'll let you know, I bought an Ra Twisty 120 specifically for this project.


 
You know I was wondering about this very thing, well, a related thing. Given your move to twisties I was wondering what would become of your cool Novatac K2 mod since there is no Novatac twisty and now I realize I completely overlooked the Ra Twisty!  

A method to your madness indeed... :devil:

And FWIW you've convinced me to mod my Novatac 120P although, given my rusty soldering skills, since I am no modder and haven't soldered in 20+ years I entrusted mine to an experienced modder! I'm not ready to turn my beloved 120P into a paperweight quite yet!


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## bansuri (Nov 6, 2009)

Gatsby said:


> You know I was wondering about this very thing, well, a related thing. Given your move to twisties I was wondering what would become of your cool Novatac K2 mod since there is no Novatac twisty and now I realize I completely overlooked the Ra Twisty!
> 
> A method to your madness indeed... :devil:
> 
> And FWIW you've convinced me to mod my Novatac 120P although, given my rusty soldering skills, since I am no modder and haven't soldered in 20+ years I entrusted mine to an experienced modder! I'm not ready to turn my beloved 120P into a paperweight quite yet!



Good eye, Gatsby! I've got high hopes for the Twisty mod, but I don't think I'll be able to give up the Novatac, it's too much fun. Nothing like press+hold for full output to really light things up. I think the Nova's size and ergonomics are just perfect for me, plus it's obscene to have that much light coming out of a light so small. I do love the Twisty though, just not the tint. Hopefully this will remedy that to some extent. 
I'll measure the draw at the emitter and do some before and after shots, (with proper exposures this time), and post my results. I will post that over on the proper forum this time and post a link here. Gotta keep it organized.
Glad to hear you're getting yours modded! Please post impressions.


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## nanotech17 (Nov 6, 2009)

Well,i have put the XPG in both my Novatac & L2D and they are bright especially the Novatac,WOW what a hotspot,at first i'm scared i might burn the XPG because it is so bright,but unfortunately my AA is not set and both of them are smoking  but the emitter are fine i guess i have the AA cooked 
so i have to put them under the sun first and let the AA dry :thumbsup:


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## Nake (Nov 6, 2009)

What's nice about putting it in the L2D is that you can try different reflectors on the emtter to see what the beam looks like. The emitter sits right out there in front when you take the headcap/bezel off. I have one in a P2D, same thing.


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## heckboy (Nov 6, 2009)

I picked up a black 120P just for the K2 mod. This afternoon I installed the K2. This evening I took both my original 120P and my modified K2-120P for a walk with the dog. The K2 is a good bit brighter than the original LE and I do like the warm tint. It does look close to an incandescent light in color rendition.

There is a small field on one of our dog walk routes where we will normally do a rabbit count. Tonight, five rabbits all present and accounted for, and much easier to spot them with the K2-120P. Not only was the additional brightness of the K2 making it easier to spot the rabbits I think the tint made them easier to see as well. I'll keep carrying an monkeying with the K2-120P and give you some more impressions after a week or two.

Now what's this XPG-120P going to be like?

Later,
HB


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## tpchan (Nov 6, 2009)

Bansuri,

Thanks for starting this great thread! I've ordered my K2's and Arctic alumina from photonfanatic and can hardly wait for everything to arrive. I also needed a new soldering station for this and some other projects so a new Hakko 936 is on its way as well!


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## bansuri (Nov 7, 2009)

tpchan said:


> Bansuri,
> 
> Thanks for starting this great thread! I've ordered my K2's and Arctic alumina from photonfanatic and can hardly wait for everything to arrive. I also needed a new soldering station for this and some other projects so a new Hakko 936 is on its way as well!



You're welcome! This is just the thing I needed to go over the edge with flashoholism, sounds like you too. Of course this should've gone in the Homemade and Modified lights forum but I'm willing to bet that a lot of CPFers don't get over there much as there's already so much to keep up with over here in LED Flashlights. 

It's great to be able to breath new life in to an "older" light with a driver that is (seems) sufficient for modern emitters. Manufacturers have to weigh many factors when sourcing components for products, while it seems easy for us to swap an LED on a whim these companies have printed tons of literature, made the ads, printed the boxes, specsheets, etc... so they can't just change emitters midway through a product's life cycle, especially for one that's probably pushing the limits of the light,..
But WE can! :devil:

I've ordered some more K2s and have bought some more lights, alligator clips for proper readings, you've bought a new soldering station... will it all be worth it? Probably. We'll have the sickest lights around and a deeper understanding of how these things work. Also, who knows what paths will open up to us now that we have this new knowledge?
BTW, that Hakko looks awesome!


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## aceo07 (Nov 7, 2009)

I upgraded my HDS U60 (SSC P4 upgraded) to K2 tonight. I have to get used to the most focused hotspot. Unfortunately I didn't plan that well and the K2 is not perfectly centered. It was a snug fit, but I guess it wasn't trimmed evenly on all sides. I have a spare K2, so when I get adventurous again, I will redo my efforts.

The beam seems fine, but not as smooth as the SSC P4. There is a small black hole in the hotspot. I assume it's a focus issue.

I would hope for a power outage, but I don't have a UPS for my cable modem and router...


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## KDOG3 (Nov 7, 2009)

Bansuri: Please post the pics and mod details in this thread or link to them! I'm only a few days away from ordering a Ra (haven't decided which model yet) and can't wait to see how it works out. And I hope it doesn't lose any efficiency!


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 7, 2009)

tpchan said:


> Bansuri,
> 
> Thanks for starting this great thread! I've ordered my K2's and Arctic alumina from photonfanatic and can hardly wait for everything to arrive. I also needed a new soldering station for this and some other projects so a new Hakko 936 is on its way as well!



Something I need to add about installing a K2 in Novatacs and HDS EDC's.
If you are referring to Arctic Alumina epoxy, you don't need to glue the emitter in. The orginal led isn't glued, the reflector holds it down. All you really need is AA paste or something like it. There isn't anything wrong with using epoxy functionally, it'll just be more difficult to upgrade in the future.


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## KDOG3 (Nov 7, 2009)

kz1000s1 said:


> Something I need to add about installing a K2 in Novatacs and HDS EDC's.
> If you are referring to Arctic Alumina epoxy, you don't need to glue the emitter in. The orginal led isn't glued, the reflector holds it down. All you really need is AA paste or something like it. There isn't anything wrong with using epoxy functionally, it'll just be more difficult to upgrade in the future.




Really? Thats interesting. I think I have some AA from CPU upgrade I did on my comp. Same stuff?


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 7, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> Really? Thats interesting. I think I have some AA from CPU upgrade I did on my comp. Same stuff?



Yes, It should be. I use Arctic Silver I got from a computer store.
In a Novatac you may even be able to reuse the original paste.

Also, whatever you use, it's main purpose is to fill any irregularities between
the bottom of the led and the heatsink so carefully push the led down
(don't push on the clear dome!) to contact the heatsink.


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## bansuri (Nov 7, 2009)

kz1000s1 said:


> Something I need to add about installing a K2 in Novatacs and HDS EDC's.
> If you are referring to Arctic Alumina epoxy, you don't need to glue the emitter in. The orginal led isn't glued, the reflector holds it down. All you really need is AA paste or something like it. There isn't anything wrong with using epoxy functionally, it'll just be more difficult to upgrade in the future.



I just used computer CPU thermal paste on the novatac, and really you don't need much at all. Literally just a thin, thin film. Also put some around the edge of the engine assembly so it transfers well to the head.
I've got a drop-in and a couple other mods that will require a little adhesive help, thus the 2-part. 
Once you've started, _you can never stop_.


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 7, 2009)

bansuri said:


> Once you've started, _you can never stop_.



How true!


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## Z06Pilot (Nov 8, 2009)

I love my 2 year old 120p, but this thread has given me the itch to upgrade. I don't want to risk ruining my 120p, so I think I will buy a 85t to play with. Which emiter is safer for the lights circitry, the K2 or the XP-G?
my parts list is as follows:
Novatac 85t
UCL lens
7/8" GID o-ring (under lens)
RPM Ti bezel
NyoGel 760G (for threads)
NyoGel 779ZC (for o-rings)
Emiter (K2 or XP-G)
Thermal compound

What am I missing?


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## aceo07 (Nov 8, 2009)

Z06Pilot said:


> I love my 2 year old 120p, but this thread has given me the itch to upgrade. I don't want to risk ruining my 120p, so I think I will buy a 85t to play with. Which emiter is safer for the lights circitry, the K2 or the XP-G?
> my parts list is as follows:
> Novatac 85t
> UCL lens
> ...



Both LEDs are fine and shouldn't cause problems. You just need to trim the edges of the board so it will fit inside the heatsink.


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 8, 2009)

Z06Pilot said:


> I love my 2 year old 120p, but this thread has given me the itch to upgrade. I don't want to risk ruining my 120p, so I think I will buy a 85t to play with. Which emiter is safer for the lights circitry, the K2 or the XP-G?
> my parts list is as follows:
> Novatac 85t
> UCL lens
> ...



Both emitters should be safe to use. I've done swaps with both, though the XP-G hasn't been in use long. The K2 is much easier to install and has a tighter beam with more throw. You're likely to get higher output modding your 120. After getting comfortable with the mod on the 85 you could try it on the 120 also.


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 8, 2009)

bansuri said:


> You're welcome! This is just the thing I needed to go over the edge with flashoholism, sounds like you too. Of course this should've gone in the Homemade and Modified lights forum but I'm willing to bet that a lot of CPFers don't get over there much as there's already so much to keep up with over here in LED Flashlights.



You're probably right. A lot of members may never look at that forum. It can be a place that seems complicated and intimidating. However, there are also many proven, easy mods like this one. 

Thanks for bringing it into the spotlight!


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## Z06Pilot (Nov 9, 2009)

kz1000s1 said:


> You're likely to get higher output modding your 120. After getting comfortable with the mod on the 85 you could try it on the 120 also.


 
Would the 120 be less suseptable to faliure than the 85 would?


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## kz1000s1 (Nov 9, 2009)

Z06Pilot said:


> Would the 120 be less suseptable to faliure than the 85 would?



No, there shouldn't be any failures to either light or with either LED.
And I've never of a Novatac having a failure from an LED swap.
I just thought you were starting with an 85T because you weren't sure about your ability to do the mod and the 
85T is less expensive if you damaged it.


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## Z06Pilot (Nov 9, 2009)

kz1000s1 said:


> No, there shouldn't be any failures to either light or with either LED.
> And I've never of a Novatac having a failure from an LED swap.
> I just thought you were starting with an 85T because you weren't sure about your ability to do the mod and the
> 85T is less expensive if you damaged it.


 
You are 100% right, I am less squemish about ruining a $75 light vs a $140 light, but felt that if the 85t would be prone to faliure vs the 120p because of diferences in the circitry; I would just assume use a 120P as a donner. Why would the output be less on the 85t vs the 120?


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## heckboy (Nov 10, 2009)

I have noticed one thing about my K2 conversion...

I notice that when I run the light on MAX after about 20 seconds, if I'm holding it, the light kicks down one level. If I'm not holding it the thermal protect will kick in after around 6 seconds. The light I converted is a later model 120P with a 33xxx serial number. 

Later,
HB


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## bansuri (Nov 10, 2009)

heckboy said:


> I have noticed one thing about my K2 conversion...
> 
> I notice that when I run the light on MAX after about 20 seconds, if I'm holding it, the light kicks down one level. If I'm not holding it the thermal protect will kick in after around 6 seconds. The light I converted is a later model 120P with a 33xxx serial number.
> 
> ...


Mines a 32xxx and it holds out for more than 2 minutes before blinking once.
It used to do it much sooner, not sure what has changed... I've done a full factory reset + 250 click procedure in the hope that would do something but that may be wishful thinking. The average temperature has gone down since I started using the modded light so that may be a variable.
If you look in the front with the reflector removed there is a flange that extends around the inside of the head that the front of the light engine(LE) pushes against, make sure you some thermal paste around that where the two surfaces touch to ensure heat transfer from the LE to the head. I'm even considering getting paste around the outside of the LE so it transfers heat from the front edge and all around the body of the LE to the head. If the head isn't getting warm then the heat's staying in.
I will do a test and after with similar ambient temperatures and the light at room temp. 
Will post results.


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## bansuri (Nov 10, 2009)

There are so many variables for this test! 
My initial run as posted was a little over 2 minutes.
For the next test I had a good grip on it and held it horizontal. It went for 5 minutes and I finally gave up. With a good grip on it the light is essentially liquid cooled by my circulatory system. After 5 minutes it had peaked in temperature and was holding steady.
Soooo, I think I'm getting pretty good transfer with this light and will forgo taking it apart for now. 

I wouldn't consider the high mode on this modded light as a level that would be appropriate for long-term use, just a "blast" mode. However, it really stays cool at levels just under 100% which are brighter than the original emitter's full output.

I'm going to reiterate that I believe paste around the flange is crucial and if you slop some along the sides between the LE and the head it couldn't hurt. I guess I'm gonna need to get a larger quantity of some _real_ thermal paste as I've just been using those little packs that come with computer processors or heat-sinks.

In other news: I put one of these emitters in my Liteflux LF2, looks like I won't be getting a Maratac AAA after all!


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## gunga (Nov 10, 2009)

Well Bansuri, thanks to your enthusiatic post, and many other comments I finally did the swap on my 120P.

I already had a high CRI seoul in there (S2 bin) that gave excellent colour rendition, but I have to admit, I was a bit disappointed in how weak the throw was (the cost of such a smooth beam).

Well, the K2 gave back some great throw! I'm still not fully decided on the mod because I've gone to neutral cree bins on most of my mods (5A-5C).

This is not too bad though. It seems to approximate a WG or WH cree. It also makes the beam just so much more useful outside. I'll have to try this out for a while. I do like the tint consistency of the beam though (something lacking in the latest seouls).

Thanks for the great posts!

:wave:


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## heckboy (Nov 10, 2009)

When I re-assembled the light I put thermal epoxy behind the LE which squeezed out at assembly to surround the LED in the driver. I also added thermal epoxy between the driver and the reflector to get that into the cooling system as much as possible. I also put some between the driver and the flange on the body. I think that I've got pretty good thermal contact now with the driver, reflector and body for heat sinking. Don't ask me to disassemble this light now though! 

I suppose there is some variability between emitters that would effect how quickly things heat up as well. In any case I'm unhappy at all. I only use MAX on a burst and if the light steps down during that time I don't mind that either as the difference, to my eye, is not discernible.

Regards,
HB


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## gunga (Nov 10, 2009)

Did you use thermal compound or Epoxy?

If you used epoxy, um, that thing is going nowhere ever again...

No more mods.


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## heckboy (Nov 10, 2009)

No, no opps. I knew what I was doing. As all good plumbers say: "it's what I had on the truck."

Later,
HB




gunga said:


> Did you use thermal compound or Epoxy?
> 
> If you used epoxy, um, that thing is going nowhere ever again...
> 
> No more mods.


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## gunga (Nov 10, 2009)

Wow, so you glued the whole thing together?!

I've done a couple mods on mine, but I'd say yours is well potted.


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## aceo07 (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm getting used to the more focused hotspot now after a few days. 

However now I have no clue how many lumens it's putting out.. I upgraded from 60lumens, HDS U60, to a SSC P4 U-bin, to the K2.

It does 30 minutes before dropping from max.


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## heckboy (Nov 10, 2009)

Not glue: EPOXY 



gunga said:


> Wow, so you glued the whole thing together?!
> 
> I've done a couple mods on mine, but I'd say yours is well potted.


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## bansuri (Nov 10, 2009)

heckboy said:


> Not glue: EPOXY


If you DO need to get it out: I just recently loosened up an epoxied base from a drop-in with heat. I guess you'd need to take everything off of the head except for the LE(duh!), carefully clamp it up, apply the heat to the outside of the head and push on the emitter from the business end. Once that's out keep it hot and scrape out the remaining epoxy, or let it cool and see if it's bond has been broken to the point that you could get it out cold.


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## heckboy (Nov 20, 2009)

Tonight on my daily dog walk and rabbit count I took the K2-120P and my Ra Clicky tactical 140. Under the scientifically rigorous conditions of rabbit spotting while walking the dog, the K2-120P was discernibly brighter than the Ra. In addition the warmer tint of the K2 makes it easier to spot the rabbits as well. FYI, the rabbits are 40 to 60 yards out.

I continue to be impressed with this simple modification to the 120P.  It is becoming my favorite light, displacing the standard 120P in that role.

Later,
HB


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## RocketTomato (Nov 20, 2009)

Bansuri, your pictures from the original post are gone.


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## sawlight (Nov 20, 2009)

Rocket: it seems there has been a misunderstanding between he and the powers that be at CPF. Unfortunatly I think the pics are gone forever. I wish I had pics of my mod to post, but I don't and really, it's an easy mod.


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## Gatsby (Nov 23, 2009)

Well I just got my Novatac 120P back from a K2 TVOD mod job from one of our excellent pros and, well, it sure is bright on max! I let it run for about 20-30 seconds or so and it heats up plenty quickly on max as well (a testament to good thermal transfer in my opinion - at that level I WANT the body to be getting hot!). I didn't push it to thermal step down and had a broad grip on it to use my body to cool it some but may later to see how it compares. Since it isn't dark it is a bit difficult to compare it to much of anything "known" but it will be fun tomorrow night to do some side by sides with my Milky Creemator that should be arriving in tomorrows mail! I excpect the Creemator to be brighter on high (since it may be the brightest single RCR123 light out the front - or darn close) but it will be a fun comparison. 

Now I just can't wait until this evening to put my Novatac through its paces.

One question for anyone who has done this previously - any need for a factory reset? I did a battery reset just in case it was tested with a primary (I'm using AW's protected black cells but given the built in overdischarge protection I may pick up some unprotected cells although given the circuitry in the Novatac I'm not sure it really matters.


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## heckboy (Nov 23, 2009)

I did a factory reset after modding mine. Frankly I'm not sure if it made any difference at all. It's a P, not hacked E or T, so the factory reset was no skin off my nose.

I'll be very interested in the Creemator vs. K2-120 mod comparison. I sold a Milky L1 eXtreme SSCP4 USWOH w/McR 18j and the 30 ohm tail cap because when I compared it to my stock (old) 120P I found the differences in the beam so insignificant that I opted for the programmable Novatac.

Have fun,
HB


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## bansuri (Nov 23, 2009)

sawlight said:


> Rocket: it seems there has been a misunderstanding between he and the powers that be at CPF. Unfortunatly I think the pics are gone forever. I wish I had pics of my mod to post, but I don't and really, it's an easy mod.



You're too eloquent Sawlight! Actually, I jumped into a fight on Marketplace and got banned! 
My initial reaction was "to heck with this place!", but then I thought about all the people that I've sold lights to and communicated with and didn't want to abandon them in case they have a problem, I've got a commitment for a warm Quark AA MiNi (100 minimum needed thread), and there are some members that I really enjoy communicating with. Also this thread needs tending! 

The Nova continues to amaze me even after making full output a little less than full for better runtimes. Got a 17670 tube for it, just waiting for the battery.


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## gunga (Nov 23, 2009)

Glad you're back bansuri.

I now have a TVOD K2 in my LF2 (inspired by you). Yep, really like the extra reach this emitter gives. The Novatac is much better too.

Too bad you can't get a good warmer tint K2 these days.
BTW, I think you're light is going into low battery shut down on high due to excess voltage sag. The low vF on these may make the light dump too much current on max.


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## bansuri (Nov 23, 2009)

gunga said:


> Glad you're back bansuri.
> 
> I now have a TVOD K2 in my LF2 (inspired by you). Yep, really like the extra reach this emitter gives. The Novatac is much better too.
> 
> ...



Speaking of those great CPF folks... here's one now! Gunga!!
Glad you like the LF2 mod, it really gives it some headroom.
If you've ever watched the old Star Trek, (uh, I should clarify old, the one that's 43 years old, not the one that's 22 years old), they had these Phasers that were handheld weapons and every now and then they would accidentally or intentionally get one into the state of "overload", it would whine for a little while and then explode. That's what the LF2 running 10440s reminds me of. Waaaay too much on full, but great up to 90%.


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## kaichu dento (Nov 24, 2009)

bansuri said:


> ...I've got a commitment for a warm Quark AA MiNi (100 minimum needed thread), and there are some members that I really enjoy communicating with.


So can I mark you down as prepaid? We're at 95 right now.

How long are you out of the Marketplace? Look forward to seeing you back! :thumbsup:


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## Blindasabat (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm still not sure why this mod does what it does. Why does an emitter swap essentially make the light go direct drive on high (as far as I can tell)? At first I guessed that the driver is voltage controlled, not current controlled and that since I have read in the past that HDS, NT, and Ra are individually set to specific Lumens, a lower Vf emitter than the original one the light was tuned to could cause higher drive levels. Several people have seen that the current is higher on RCR's and IMR's than primaries. Has anyone been able to find out any more about this? 
I have a low Vf (about 3.1V) SSC high CRI in my NT120P, but it doesn't put out a ton of light - though it can't take a lot of current either. I did try that emitter DD on an RCR and it ran up to 1.5Amps! It doesn't seem to do that on my NT. It acts funny going into max though. When I press-hold for max it blinks and then changes level down-up within a couple of seconds. It seems to be struggling even with a fresh (and tested) RCR123 in it.

The reason I really want to know what is happening is partly curiosity and wanting to learn, but I also whant to know if a different low Vf emitter like a neutral Rebel D-bin Vf emitter will work just as well, but at higher overall efficiency.


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## Gatsby (Nov 24, 2009)

I suppose that is what I get for not paying attention - I had no idea you'd had a brief hiatus Bansuri but I'm glad you're back around!

How did the Ra Twisty mod turn out? 

I have an LF2 that I like quite a bit just as it is but I don't think there would be a light easier to mod since the bezel unscrews and the emitter is just sitting there nice and easily accessible atop the driver. Maybe a K2 would be a fun little project in that light. My LF2 has been on my key ring now for, oh, close to two years I think and it has held up remarkably well. The anodizing is pretty well worn around the edges and there are some dings and scratches but she still works perfectly. Really a well made light and I sort of regret its not available any longer - the compact size makes it a much better keyring light than the newer LF2XX models. As it is that is about as large a light as I'd like on a key ring.

That phaser comment is hysterical - by the way - I remember when they'd overload and blow up. IIRC they used that "feature" once or twice strategically. I run my LF2 at about 15% or so and about 80% on a lithium and that is bright enough - I can't imagine it on a 10440...


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## bansuri (Nov 28, 2009)

Gatsby said:


> How did the Ra Twisty mod turn out?



Not bad, I just used regular thermal paste on it in case a better emitter, (more neutral) comes along. It's crazy bright, and it gets better runtimes than the Novatac. I'll post specs when I get them. I won't say much now because it's late and I don't have real measurements to post, but I think the runtimes are WAAAAAYYY better! I like to use the Novatac style clip so the stock bottom O-ring needed to be beefed up and I had a spare GITD that fit.
Still love the Novatac, but the Nova clip on the Twisty makes for easy one-handed operation.
I think the next step in this idiotic journey will be to build the driver from an LF3XT in to the Novatac. It'll drive up the cost a little, but the LF3XT has some awesome programming features in a package that I just can't keep hold of. 
Here's the cousins hanging out:








The LF2-K2 is fantastic! Of course it's a little on the cool side, but the output is phenomenal and 100% is really over-the-top. 50% and below is a ton of light and really all I use. I love the diffuser and keep it on all the time. It's the bomb!


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## bee-man (Dec 1, 2009)

*I can solder, but this modder...*

fr!cking retaining ring doesn't want to come off!!! Since reading this, I really wouldn't mind upgrading my purple tinted Novy, but I can't do anything until my light comes apart w/o destroying it. ARRR!!!


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## Gatsby (Dec 2, 2009)

Very cool Bansuri - the twisty is quite compact compared to the clickie.

I've had some odd behavior out of my Novatac since it received a K2 mod. I did a factory reset and a battery detection reset upon receipt of the light and have noticed in use that at times, when going to max (via either momentary press or click press to latch) that on max the level may fluctuate a bit before settling in on max. I also had an odd experience where when clicking back to a lower setting it would waiver a bit around the lower level before settling in (this has been changed a bit by increasing primary up one or two levels). I can't decide it this is a battery draw issue (I'm using AW protected RCR123s, maybe I need to get some IMRs for this light), a contact issue (I'm going to clean all the contacts tonight) or what could be the culprit.

It is darn bright on max - only the smallest perceptible amount perhaps less bright than my Milky Creemator on max - which is saying something. It is a screamer and I'm thinking perhaps that the AW protected cell (and it is a year or two old and has been cycled a fair amount) isn't able to keep up for a moment with the current draw.

Any thoughts?


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## Nake (Dec 2, 2009)

Gatsby said:


> Very cool Bansuri - the twisty is quite compact compared to the clickie.
> 
> I've had some odd behavior out of my Novatac since it received a K2 mod. I did a factory reset and a battery detection reset upon receipt of the light and have noticed in use that at times, when going to max (via either momentary press or click press to latch) that on max the level may fluctuate a bit before settling in on max. I also had an odd experience where when clicking back to a lower setting it would waiver a bit around the lower level before settling in (this has been changed a bit by increasing primary up one or two levels). I can't decide it this is a battery draw issue (I'm using AW protected RCR123s, maybe I need to get some IMRs for this light), a contact issue (I'm going to clean all the contacts tonight) or what could be the culprit.
> 
> ...


 

I remember mine behaving like yours after the swap, maybe not exactly, it's been a while. I tried an IMR and at first it was brighter, per my light box, but later after the not normal behavior went away, it's close to what an AW shows. Everything is back to normal now. Maybe the circuit needs to adjust to the lower Vf. I don't know enough about the electronics to say for sure.

A fellow member wrote me and said his light was behaving oddly also after his swap.


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## tebore (Dec 2, 2009)

When your light starts acting strangely or flickers/fluctuates I suggest you first double check your solder job. If that's good, you should just clean all contact surfaces (including the battery ends) and apply some pro-gold and redo the redetect. 

Remember a lot of current is going through the system and the electronics are sensitive. 

My theory on why a light might settle down after a day or two is because as you use the light the contact surfaces on the battery do a "Self-clean" from the jostling of EDC.


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## heckboy (Dec 2, 2009)

Mine worked fine after the mod running 123A and R123. I have found that the Novatac can be a little persinckity with respect to having clean contacts everywhere.

Later,
HB


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## bansuri (Dec 2, 2009)

Gatsby said:


> Very cool Bansuri - the twisty is quite compact compared to the clickie.
> 
> I've had some odd behavior out of my Novatac since it received a K2 mod. I did a factory reset and a battery detection reset upon receipt of the light and have noticed in use that at times, when going to max (via either momentary press or click press to latch) that on max the level may fluctuate a bit before settling in on max. I also had an odd experience where when clicking back to a lower setting it would waiver a bit around the lower level before settling in (this has been changed a bit by increasing primary up one or two levels). I can't decide it this is a battery draw issue (I'm using AW protected RCR123s, maybe I need to get some IMRs for this light), a contact issue (I'm going to clean all the contacts tonight) or what could be the culprit.
> 
> ...



Gasby, 
I think you might be describing 2 different problems, both driver related though. The low-level flickering is an issue that has never been resolved, to my knowledge, and the cure is exactly what you described - use a higher setting. FlashlightReviews dot com has a link to a video of the behavior on their review of the Novatac 120P. Mine did the same thing pre and post mod.

With this mod it seemed like the draw was just too much for the driver so I have my high setting 1 level down from 100%. Still lights up my backyard like daylight and makes a noticeable difference in runtime.

This light, and now the Twisty, makes me _wish_ for nighttime!


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## Rat6P (Dec 22, 2009)

Your thread inspired me to do the same to my 85P
Ordered a K2 from LedSupply.com.(overseas shipping..ordered monday....got here friday ) 
I ordered a cool white as I wanted the highest possible output gains..........I dont know what bin I got but the K2 I put in was surprisingly warm.

The increase in lumens is certainly noticeable when comparing to my other lights, but not mind blowing. I guestimate my 85P is now over 100 lumens. One thing I have noticed is the strobe seems much brighter now.......

Anyway really happy with the way this turned out....a little brighter now and a warm tint to boot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Gatsby (Dec 22, 2009)

Well I'm not sure what I did - other than clean all the contacts and make sure the battery stays topped off and did a battery detect again, but it is working just fine now... 

I'm surprised the 85P isn't cranked up a bit more than your experience, at least on my 120P on max it is really, really bright. I've compared it to my Milky Creemator (will try to do some beamshots at some point) which is using the Acorn 1.3 amp board and a Cree Q5 and the K2 Novatac is to my eye just about the same brightness. Since the Creemator 1.3 with a Q5 is rated at just north of 300 lumens that is pretty impressive although admittedly that is using an RCR123 regular AW protected cell which likely isn't driving it at full potential - I'll have to check it out again with 2 primaries... (note to self, wish I had a 17670 e series body...). So let's presume the Creemator is south of that, say in the low 200's that still means the K2 Novatac is in the same ballpark since I can't see much of a difference, if any (such things being a bit more difficult to measure due to tint differences, my TVOD K2 is really lovely, nice and neutral and not too warm or cool, the Q5 is expectedly on the cooler side). And my 120P gets hot hot hot rather quickly on max. I've pondered dropping to level 21 which is the same as the high on an 85P just to see what that looks like - maybe I'll do it anyway just to see how it works and compare that to the Creemator - and I'll use two primaries instead of an RCR123.

As a sidenote my Creemator has a McR19 reflector and not the focusable TIR so the beamshapes are comparable between the two.


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## nanotech17 (Jan 6, 2010)

ok here are some beamshots on the SSC U2SMUH vs K2 TFFC TVOD vs K2 TFFC TWOF vs SSC U2SVOH.

Black NT12oT U2SMUH ( fitted with the latest UCL lens - much better than the previous UCL lens )





Olive NT120T K2 TFFC TVOD (fitted with UCL lens previous version )





Minimag light K2 TFFC TVOD GD1000 (fitted with UCL lens previous version )






Surefire KL6 U2SVOH 1A (stock lens )





Solarforce tube with home made P60 drop-ins 1.2A K2 TFFC TWOF (fitted with UCL lens previous version )





Now who have the SSC U3SVOH to compare with?


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## gunga (Jan 6, 2010)

So what do you prefer in your Novatac? TVOD K2 or the new seoul?

My monitor does not help me see much with the beamshots...


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## tebore (Jan 6, 2010)

You really can't beat those K2s for tint uniformity and tint "pretty-ness". 

Those SSCs are either blue or yellow with nothing near a nice HID-like 5000k pure white. 

The SSCs aren't significantly brighter either.


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## nanotech17 (Jan 6, 2010)

Gunga,like what tebore said the K2 still win my heart.I'm not sure about the U3SVOH.


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## gunga (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks, I meant what you thought of the U2SMUH...


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## nanotech17 (Jan 6, 2010)

gunga said:


> Thanks, I meant what you thought of the U2SMUH...



it is not bad either i took it for a walk last night and went through some smoking area in the field and it's dark the U2SMUH can penetrate the smoke compare the cool white XRE Q5.


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## gunga (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks Nano.

I modded a 2nd Novatac, but ended up using the TVOD K2. I like the tint a bit better. I couldn't get the retaining ring out the back, so I modded it from the front. Not as easy/fun, but it worked out okay.

I put the U2SUMH in my EDC (LF2). Decent tint, a bit yellow, but a nice warmer tint compared to cool white seouls. 

Nice to have options!


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## ideefixe (Jan 7, 2010)

gunga said:


> I couldn't get the retaining ring out the back, so I modded it from the front.


 you must have surgeon's hands!! 

I agree going with the K2 TFFC, I'm loving the UW0E tint.


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## NutSAK (Jan 11, 2010)

I just replaced the original emitter in my 120P with one of Fred's U3SVNH P4's. The tint and output are noticeably improved. The output on the 85lm setting is about equal to what 120lm was with the old emitter. I left max on the highest setting, but stepped the medium and low settings one notch for increased runtime.


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## Nake (Jan 11, 2010)

NutSAK said:


> I just replaced the original emitter in my 120P with one of Fred's U3SVNH P4's. The tint and output are noticeably improved. The output on the 85lm setting is about equal to what 120lm was with the old emitter. I left max on the highest setting, but stepped the medium and low settings one notch for increased runtime.


 
Is the yellow ring that the U2s had gone?


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## NutSAK (Jan 11, 2010)

Nake said:


> Is the yellow ring that the U2s had gone?



I've not seen a U2's output. The hotspot and outer spill are cooler than the wide corona around the hotspot. In other words, there is a wide area of more yellow tint between the hotspot and edge of the spill, but I wouldn't call it a "ring". I don't think the warmer tint around the spot is just a characteristic of the U2 bins though--I've seen the same thing in the earlier U bins.

From what I can tell, the U2 and U3 are the same emitter. The U3 bin lists the same max output as the U2, but the minimum output is increased, so there is less variation. It appears that they are just "tightening up" the bin specs.


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## MikeG1P315 (Jan 11, 2010)

Two questions for all you modders: 

I want to put a K2 in my Novatac, but am not even close to being electrically adept. Is there anyone on CPF who will do the swap for me (for a fee, ofcourse!). 

and, any links to where I can buy a K2 emitter? I admit I may have missed it. And which version of K2 seems to be the best? I'm not too picky, as long as it's not blueish or greenish. 

The mods in this thread look fantastic.


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## gunga (Jan 11, 2010)

THe best place to get the K2s is likely Photonfanatic in the Markeplace.

THere is a link in the first post. TVOD is a great bin, with nice tint (not as warm as the typical neutral crees, but still nice).

I can do your mod as long as the bezel ring is not glued down. I prefer that the retaining ring in the back is also not glued down.

THere are also a hole lot of US based modders for quicker turnaround (try datiLED for example).


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## gunga (Jan 11, 2010)

ideefixe said:


> you must have surgeon's hands!!
> 
> I agree going with the K2 TFFC, I'm loving the UW0E tint.


 
Not surgeon's, not after I burned my finger.

:naughty:

It was not too fun, but I couldn't get that darn retaining ring out so...

:sick2:


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## MikeG1P315 (Jan 11, 2010)

Thanks for the info, Gunga. When I'm ready to do my upgrade, I'll check with the locals, but I'll keep your post bookmarked and may come back to you anyway. 

Thanks again!


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## xevious (Feb 11, 2010)

I can't recall where I saw it, but there was a thread where someone disassembled a Novatac before removing the thermal compound, and you see gobs of this black stuff all over the head. I take it that it's essential to put all that stuff back on again after an emitter swap? Which thermal paste are people using?

I am also curious to know how much of a runtime extension you get with the more efficient emitter... would it be something like a 50% improvement?


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## blub (Feb 11, 2010)

I'd like to know runtimes too. Anybody?


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## abarth_1200 (Feb 11, 2010)

big question, Fred's U3 binned P4 or a K2 UWOE.

I read a lot of guys here have had great experiences with the K2's.

Being a first time modder should I stick with what you know?


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## bluecrow76 (Feb 19, 2010)

I finally bit the bullet and modded an 85P module I had laying around. I ordered some K2 Warm White emitters (LXK2-PWW4-0160) from Future Electronics at $4.16 each. It's supposed to put out 160 lumens as 1A, typical CCT of 4100K and CRI of 75. After I got done putting the emitter in today, trying the emitter for the first time, the color is almost exactly like my Lumens Factory IMR-M6 bulb. I figured it would be warm (duhhh), but I didn't think I would get lucky enough for it to look exactly like a really nice incan bulb! Now the question is do I sell the 85P module and go ahead and mod a 120P now??? :devil:


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## glockpoppin (Feb 21, 2010)

sorry....


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## 818gtiguy (Feb 21, 2010)

This is a must do mod! Is there be anyone that could do this mod for me? I am in the Los Angeles area. I dont have the tools or know how to do the job


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## glockpoppin (Feb 22, 2010)

Found a modder...Nvmd


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## sawlight (Feb 23, 2010)

Seriously guys, go to a Radio shack, buy a soldering iron, solder, a solder sucker or the mesh solder remover and some thermal paste. They will have it all in stock, for under $75, well under if you shop right.
Then read and look at the pics, I cannot stress how easy this really isS


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## blub (Feb 26, 2010)

OK, I did my first mod today, wasn't so bad but kinda scary messing with my new 120P, but it was worth it and found a trick to get the retaining ring out easily, somebody else made a tool with a hacksaw blade but I have a newer model with the spring in the center so it didn't have enough clearance, used my calipers and it didn't slip at all and plenty high to avoid the spring. Before and after going to K2 UOWE. Much brighter and more pleasant tint. Pictures taken from 17 feet. Thanks, Bansuri!











BEFORE






AFTER


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## glockpoppin (Feb 26, 2010)

Very nice! Smart thinking, on using the calipers for the ring. I sent my NT to a fellow CPF member to get it modded with the K2. I just don't have any soldering skills and I didn't want to hack up my brand new NT. It should be back anytime and I cant wait.


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## blub (Feb 26, 2010)

glockpoppin said:


> Very nice! Smart thinking, on using the calipers for the ring. I sent my NT to a fellow CPF member to get it modded with the K2. I just don't have any soldering skills and I didn't want to hack up my brand new NT. It should be back anytime and I cant wait.


 


There was a point when I said, "Uh Oh", but there was no turning back, it was actually pretty simple but I did solder it in backwards the first time and had to undo it. You're going to like it a lot. Another thing is the strobe is BRIGHT now. My strobe was sooooooooo wimpy on the NT120P for some reason. 

On edit, I took this outside and yikes, this thing is bright now! Great beam, noticebly brighter and better throwing than my Quark regular 123, with an awesome color temp and without being too spotty.


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## swrdply400mrelay (Feb 27, 2010)

Hey guys,

I just got a couple of K2's and had a question. Chamfered side, meaning the side with the diagonal cut, is the positive side, correct? 

Thanks, can't wait to give this mod a try!


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## bansuri (Mar 15, 2010)

*Interesting development!*

Got one of those Nova EDC Ultimate 60 M7964's; slapped in the old K2 mod and it's just as bright as the 120. There may be a slight difference but it's so close as to not be noticeable in a sequential comparison. 

The increase in brightness over the original emitter in the 60 is _astounding_.
Of course I was in too big a hurry to wait for sundown to take beamshots, but the 60 looks pretty much like the other shots I posted.


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## maxpower419 (Mar 16, 2010)

I would be very grateful if someone could point me in the direction of someone who could do this mod for me (and perhaps polish my novatac)... Just dont feel like taking the risk and screwing it up, I have been all thumbs lately

Thanks guys


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## weklund (Mar 31, 2010)

maxpower419 said:


> I would be very grateful if someone could point me in the direction of someone who could do this mod for me (and perhaps polish my novatac)... Just dont feel like taking the risk and screwing it up, I have been all thumbs lately
> 
> Thanks guys


 
*Me too.....:devil:*


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## merlocka (Apr 7, 2010)

Modified an 1xxxx 85P. It went smoothly. I just marked the old LED (relative to the sink, hooked both old and new up to a 3v battery to figure out +/-, and fit the new K2 in.

The trimming of the new K2 was a little tricky. I clipped the corners with a set of side-snips, but in one corner I almost clipped too much. Then I grabbed a dremel with a wire-wheel and smoothed the edges out. In hindsight, I shoulda just used the dremel.

Popped it all back together. 

The tint is very nice. I don't mind the beam, it's still a very smooth dispersion, just more of a hotspot than the SSC. Before I started, I matched levels on my old/new 85's so I could compare. It's a big improvement in both color and output.


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## bansuri (Apr 10, 2010)

PhotonFanatic is running out of the K2 emitters, get 'em while you can!


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## timbo114 (Apr 15, 2010)

I've tried snap ring pliers and my dial caliper .... nothing will budge the retaining ring in my 85T head.

Anyone have a LE thats thread locked in their light?

I have my K2 and I'm itching to get this mod done.


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## bansuri (Apr 15, 2010)

I had to use a set of needlenose with my hand wedged between the handles to prevent the tips from camming out on my 85. You may even consider buying a set and grinding the tips specifically for this operation.


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## bansuri (Jun 1, 2010)

Changed link on post #1 to new PhotonFanatic sales thread as the old ones were sold out.
Still a chance to get in on this mod!


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