# Lightweight 21700 Powered Headlamps?



## SubLGT (Jan 27, 2020)

Are there any?

I have been waiting for Zebralight to manufacture one.

A 5000mAh 21700 cell can offer significant improvements in run time over 18650, which is what I am looking for.

Don't need a mega-photon blaster that can start paper on fire. Under 800 lumens is enough for me.


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## Keitho (Jan 27, 2020)

Nitecore HC35, and the Acebeam H30?


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## SubLGT (Jan 27, 2020)

Thanks for the suggestions, but neither one rings my bell.

The Nitecore is a little over 5" long (!!), and has the weight to go with the length, and has only one clip to attach that long body to the headband. A 21700 battery is 5mm longer than a 18650, yet the body on the HC35 is about 26mm longer than my Armytek 18650 headlamp.

The H30 is a high powered thrower. I am looking for a lower powered floody beam.

I was surprised when a Google search did not turn up any 21700 headlamps other than the 2 you mentioned. I guess I will just have to wait.


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## SKV89 (Jan 27, 2020)

Fireflies PL47 but the driver will not be as efficient as the Nitecore HC35 and Acebeam H30. Also the H30 is very floody. Not throwy at all. I have one. What I don't like about it is the greenish Cree XHP70.2 tint. You can also buy it from Skylumen.com and get the emitter swapped. The XHP70.2 80CRI that Texas_Ace bought from Digikey or was it Mouser for the MT09R mod has a decent tint.


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## NPL (Jan 27, 2020)

It would be interesting to see how much each headlamp weighs without the battery first. An 18650 is about 45g, and a 21700 is about 70g. That's a pretty significant difference just in battery weight when wearing it on your forehead. I even find the Wizard too big and heavy for most uses.

As for headlamps that use 21700 batteries, the only two I know of are the ones mentioned above. 

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## SubLGT (Jan 28, 2020)

SKV89 said:


> Also the H30 is very floody. Not throwy at all. I have one. What I don't like about it is the greenish Cree XHP70.2 tint.



Greenish tint is a deal killer for me. The H30 has features that I don't need that add weight (extra LEDs, onboard charging). With battery and headband it is almost 30% heavier than my Armytek Wizard Pro, which itself is not a light weight headlamp.

A 21700 powered ZL H600Fc Mk IV would get my attention. I don't like the position of the switch on the ZL headlamps, but I could get used to it. ZL says the H600Fc can run for 5.3 hours at 296 lumens with a 3500mAh cell. With a 5000mAh 21700 cell, runtime should be around 7.5 hours.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Jan 30, 2020)

A 21700 headlamp is probably going to weigh at least 50% more than a similar 18650 headlamp. Is that extra weight and bulk really worth it? A 3500mAh Sanyo NCR18650-GA cell gives hours of run time at a good output. For example, almost 3 hours at 700 lumens in a Zebralight that uses the XHP50.2 emitter. Or all night at a modest output.

Yes, you might get 40% or 50% longer runtimes with a high-capacity 21700 cell.... but is it needed? That extra weight might get uncomfortable by the end of that runtime. It's probably more comfortable to just carry an extra 18650 cell in your pocket if you really need it.

I get the desire to go from a AA headlamp to a 18650 headlamp. 4x the capacity is a real benefit. But 50% more.... meh.


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## julian627 (Feb 11, 2020)

There is nothing lightweight about a 21700 headlamp. An 18650 setup can be very uncomfortable after a few hours.


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## ca pow (Feb 21, 2020)

Got the Fireflies PL47 from Neals Gadgets, unfortunately the 21700 battery I have (from the Acebeam H30) does not work, I think it is a bit too long, I was wondering what battery to order, I have emailed Neals Gadgets multiple times asking for advice, and have never received an answer. Is there something specific to this light to fire it up?


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## Keitho (Feb 22, 2020)

Yeah, if you want a vendor who responds to emails, Neals isn't the right choice. For batteries, pretty much any unprotected should be short enough. I use https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh (Cyan) UK.html Samsung 50e when I want long-running 21700 and will be using less than 8A (I rarely use a headlamp in "showoff mode"). But, a good resource for cell selection, including careful measurements of cell length and diameter, is cpf member HJK http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryIndex.html


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## ca pow (Feb 24, 2020)

Keitho said:


> Yeah, if you want a vendor who responds to emails, Neals isn't the right choice. For batteries, pretty much any unprotected should be short enough. I use https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh (Cyan) UK.html Samsung 50e when I want long-running 21700 and will be using less than 8A (I rarely use a headlamp in "showoff mode"). But, a good resource for cell selection, including careful measurements of cell length and diameter, is cpf member HJK http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryIndex.html


Thank you much for the info, it is greatly appreciated.


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## orbital (Feb 26, 2020)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> A 21700 headlamp is probably going to weigh at least 50% more than a similar 18650 headlamp. Is that extra weight and bulk really worth it? A 3500mAh Sanyo NCR18650-GA cell gives hours of run time at a good output. For example, almost 3 hours at 700 lumens in a Zebralight that uses the XHP50.2 emitter. Or all night at a modest output.
> 
> Yes, you might get 40% or 50% longer runtimes with a high-capacity 21700 cell.... but is it needed? That extra weight might get uncomfortable by the end of that runtime. It's probably more comfortable to just carry an extra 18650 cell in your pocket if you really need it.
> 
> I get the desire to go from a AA headlamp to a 18650 headlamp. 4x the capacity is a real benefit. But 50% more.... meh.



+

Good points on the weight factor.
It doesn't matter w/ a handheld flashlight, but it does w/ a headlamp.

I daily use my Nitecore HC33 w/ a Zebralight full strap,, just a fantastic setup using a Sanyo 3500 mAh 18650
the xhp35 emitter is excellent 

..if someone makes a 21700 headlamp _like the discontinued Fenix_, that has the battery in the back (to take the weight off the front unit)
that would get my attention


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## ca pow (Feb 28, 2020)

Keitho said:


> Yeah, if you want a vendor who responds to emails, Neals isn't the right choice. For batteries, pretty much any unprotected should be short enough. I use https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh (Cyan) UK.html Samsung 50e when I want long-running 21700 and will be using less than 8A (I rarely use a headlamp in "showoff mode"). But, a good resource for cell selection, including careful measurements of cell length and diameter, is cpf member HJK http://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryIndex.html


Got the 50E, it works great, so happy you cleared up the matter!!!


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## Keitho (Mar 1, 2020)

Glad you like it, that's a huge gas tank for your new light


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## Lynx_Arc (Mar 1, 2020)

I have 2 single 18650 in the front headlamps and don't like the strap over the top on either of them took one off and changed straps on the other that now only has a single strap on it. Right now the headlamps are almost too heavy with a single strap on them but as one is on a hard hat most of the time and the other not I find the 18650 is about at the limit of weight and bulkiness for me. I went from AA to 18650 for a single reason... usable run time. After researching 1AA and 2AA on the front headlamps I found that none of them had enough runtime at a usable level of light for my purposes while an 18650 had 50% to about twice the lumens for over twice the amount of time plus an eye opening High mode and a wow turbo mode. At work I have people often in awe as they are shining lights at ceilings that often are flashlights and I pop my headlamp on and hit turbo and the more floody output lights up all they are interested in looking at and more.
50% more bulk and weight (or more) is probably about 30% too much or so IMO. It would be nice to have a higher turbo and high mode but to be honest most of the time I run my headlamp on low to medium and high on occasion with turbo but for a minute or two. 
I think around 30-60 for low for one mode 125-200 for medium and 350-500 for a high mode. Both my headlamps have a low sublumen mode and turbo. I find the sublumen mode rarely useful but the turbo is very useful for two things: For over saturate area lighting looking into a dark hole, and to help my weaker eyes (reading glasses etc), and for giving more "throw" in that you can see things at a distance that usually require a more throwy light. A 200-300 lumen thrower would give you light in an area needed that 800-900 on a floodier headlamp does. 
My two headlamps are a Wowtac A2S with removable USB 18650 3400 and Fenix HL60 with build in charger. I find the Wowtac easier to remove the battery to swap in a new one than the Fenix as it is right angle light. 
Having built in recharging of the Fenix is not a huge advantage when you need to keep going with the same headlamp while having a USB rechargeable battery that the Wowtac comes with can be helpful as if you have a micro USB cable and USB power you can start recharging it separately outside of the headlamp while you swap in a fresh battery and keep going. 
I typically don't use my headlamp at work more than an hour a day when it isn't raining or way overcast and perhaps 2 hours a day when it is darker outside and can go a week and a half without needing a recharge. 
One thing to consider about a 21700 is charge time. If you are using standard micro USB charging it will take a long long time so either you need (again) a second battery and more powerful charging solution to keep charge times about the same as 18650 otherwise the 50% more output/runtime will cost you 50% (or more) charging time meaning you may need MORE extra 21700 batteries under heavy use.


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## LogansRun (Mar 16, 2020)

NPL said:


> It would be interesting to see how much each headlamp weighs without the battery first. *An 18650 is about 45g, and a 21700 is about 70g*. That's a pretty significant difference just in battery weight when wearing it on your forehead. I even find the Wizard too big and heavy for most uses...


Hmm... interesting. I once had a 4xAA Princeton Tec Apex headlamp and that thing was a beast at 271 gr (not even sure if that is empty weight or with batteries as I don't have the light anymore but looked up the spec's). The battery pack was on the back but I do remember getting tired of having that thing on my head when I had it on for 30 minutes doing camping chores.

My current ZL H600c MK IV is apparently about 125 gr with battery + headband and I find it comfortable when wearing for about 1.5hrs straight. If we're adding about 25gr difference for the 21700 and perhaps a bit more as the light itself would have more material, then we're looking at 125 + 25 + 25 (only a guess as I have no idea how much more material there would be)= 175 gr. Not the lightest but I would still be interested in seeing that. I once thought 18650 headlamps were heavy - and they are compared to 1xAA - but I've since gotten used to it. YMMV.

Perhaps ZL or others may take the same approach as, say, Exposure Lights https://exposurelights.com/products/outdoor/head-torches, where they actually have the 1x18650 battery holder at the back instead of up front. Btw, I have no affiliation with Exposure lights - I just like their (really expensive but) great bike lights.



Lynx_Arc said:


> One thing to consider about a 21700 is charge time. If you are using standard micro USB charging it will take a long long time so either you need (again) a second battery and more powerful charging solution to keep charge times about the same as 18650 otherwise the 50% more output/runtime will cost you 50% (or more) charging time meaning you may need MORE extra 21700 batteries under heavy use.


That is a really good point: even charging the higher-capacity 3400mAh 18650's on a charger takes quite a long time.


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## Keitho (Mar 16, 2020)

Good quality 18650's charge in just under an hour, and good quality 21700's in just over an hour for me--not a deciding factor when I choose a light: https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar Over 4 Slim UK.html

Weight, on the other hand, is--why I'd be willing to try a ZL 21700 headlamp--it would most likely be the lightest-weight bomber-quality headlamp for that kind of cell, though I'd be worried that they would pick a large reflector for aesthetic reasons and end up with a too-floody light.


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## Raptor1956 (Mar 21, 2020)

Once y'all answer this, I'm looking for a ultra-flyweight headlamp with a high-noon tint, that will accommodate a full-size 12-volt car battery internally. Thanks, LOL...


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## LogansRun (Jun 4, 2020)

Keitho said:


> Good quality 18650's charge in just under an hour, and good quality 21700's in just over an hour for me--not a deciding factor when I choose a light: https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Xtar Over 4 Slim UK.html
> 
> Weight, on the other hand, is--why I'd be willing to try a ZL 21700 headlamp--it would most likely be the lightest-weight bomber-quality headlamp for that kind of cell, though I'd be worried that they would pick a large reflector for aesthetic reasons and end up with a too-floody light.


Thanks for the head'-up about faster chargers - will have to look into picking one up once I pick up a 21700-fueled light. How is the heat from that XTAR charger? It indicates max 4A which is quite the amps.

I don't mind a slightly larger reflector if it can give a bit more throw but, if it's like an old miner lamp, then maybe not so much. And I don't like super floody lights either.


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## skidad (Jun 26, 2020)

https://www.action-led-lights.com/collections/batteries/products/gemini-4000mah-2-cell-batterySo maybe something to help you out I found this nice small 21700 battery pack on the Action LED mountain bike web site. You could pair it with one of their small lights and a headband. I’m going to try to mate a replacement Petzl Swift RL headband to my tiny mtn bike light and possibly use this battery for long night runs and hikes in the White Mountains of NH. Or I’ll just get a Lucifer Light from Czechoslovakia.


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## CampingMaster (May 13, 2021)

The Wizard C2 Pro Max with Cree XHP70.2 using a 21700 batterie seem to be a good choice at 79 g without batterie and a Maximum of 4,000 lumens.

Not available presently but soon. I will for sure order one.


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## NPL (May 15, 2021)

One thing to keep in mind with xhp70 headlamps is that the beam will be super floody, and you will likely need to run the light at a much higher setting to get the same perceived brightness from a much lower setting with a smaller LED with a throwier beam. 

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## SubLGT (May 17, 2021)

The Wizard C2 Pro Max will have a hotspot of 110 degree (and a range of 114 meter), compared to 70 degree in the standard Wizard C2 Pro.

More specs here:
https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/armytek-c2-pro-max-21700.81933/


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## NPL (May 18, 2021)

At almost twice the brightness, it still has less throw than the xhp50 model. 

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## CampingMaster (May 26, 2021)

SubLGT said:


> The Wizard C2 Pro Max will have a hotspot of 110 degree (and a range of 114 meter), compared to 70 degree in the standard Wizard C2 Pro.
> 
> More specs here:
> https://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/threads/armytek-c2-pro-max-21700.81933/



Wizard C2 Pro XHP50.2 >>> 70° / 120° -- 2,500 lumens Maximum 30 sec.

Wizard C2 Pro Max XHP70.2 >>> 110° / 150° -- 4,000 lumens Maximum 50 sec.


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## SubLGT (May 27, 2021)

deleted


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