# Were you a Commodore 64 programmer?



## The_LED_Museum (Nov 22, 2006)

Back in the early-1990s, I was. 

I wrote demos in assembly language with music & graphics; these demos also usually had a scroll text that explained why the demo was written, greetings to various other people and demo groups, what you were eating or drinking at the time, when you last flushed the toliet, etc.






Here is a screen dump (yes, it's really called that) from my demo "Warp Damage" from 1993.

This was a single-page demo, written mainly to introduce a new member to my demo group, and secondarily, to test how my logo came out after making it in an FLI editor; a program designed to take the video chip in the C=64 beyond its design limitations.

I had written a lot of other single- and multi-page demos from ~1989 to 1994; this is just an example of one of them.
From 1989 to early-1993, my demo group was known as TDM (The Douched Moose); with the addition of a new member in 1993, I renamed it to TDC (The Douche Crew).

If you have a Commodore 64 emulator on your pee-cee, here is the Warp Damage/TDM demo you can run on it.

I also broke new ground with my demo "Transition/TDM" because it featured a 96-line $D016 wave - something that had not been accomplished before. This caused a large "TDM" logo on the screen to wave or undulate in the vertical direction. And on my demo "Mag Factor Three", I had color rasterbars at normal and 3 times their normal size; along with two circular thingies that did this wierd horizontal ripping motion on the first page.





And here's a screen dump from the last page of Mag Factor Three.
Those silver balls on the lower half of the screen circle in a pseudo-3D configuration.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 22, 2006)

Demos I've written include the following (yes, spaces and forward slashes are legal characters in Commodore filenames):

*COM BOY/TDM
PU*...o wait, I can't say that word on CPF. Think of a kitty beating the urine out of you with a long thin strap




*HMBC/TDM
WAVERLOGO/TDM
TRANSITION/TDM
URINALWRITER/TDM
MAG FACTOR THREE/TDM
THUNDERFLUSH/TDM
WARP DAMAGE/TDM
BORN AGAIN/TDC
AIDS DEMO/TDC*

There are more, but these are all I can remember right off the bat.


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## Omega Man (Nov 22, 2006)

I know I've said before, my bro and I were very into the C64 growing up. It sucked being the only kids in school/our state  with a C64 instead of a Nintendo, but it taught me patience at a young age, and a love for synthesized music and sounds.
I've spent uncountable hours of my life listening to .sids, both from sitting infront of demo screens and loaders, to listening to SID Shoutcasts in Winamp(what I do most of the time the computer is on). 

I've always thought it was cool that a CPF-er, let alone a highstanding and senior memeber, was _that_ much into C64s also.
Craig, remember the tiny paper-thin LP by "The Jazz Cats" that came with Movie, Musical, Madness? 
Or Gortech and The MicroChips?


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 22, 2006)

I would spend hours & hours coding these programs; often into the wee hours of the morning. The scroll text on many of my demos would be a testament to this; they often had the following phrase somewhere in them:

*IT'S LATE AND SOMEONE BUSTED THE COFFEEPOT*

This would often be about when I wrapped up the scroll text and called it quits for the day; but not *ALWAYS*.

I also ran my BBS on another Commodore 64 computer using TDMBBS V7.0 software (my own modified version of Ivory 6485 BBS software - enhanced for more colorful graphics and more subboards, etc.); running it on the Commodore from 07-21-89 to sometime in mid-1993 when I moved it to a pee-cee, and ran it on that computer until 07-21-99 when I took it down. I don't have any screen dumps from that BBS from when it ran on the Commodore, so I cannot post any of those screen shots.

I still listen to .SID music to this day via sidplay.exe on this computer, and a collection of over 16,000 .SID files - many of them containing multiple songs.

O, and I still have a working Commodore SX-64 at my disposal - if I can get my hands on some 5.25" floppy diskettes, I have a cable that will enable me to transfer Commodore files from here to the C=1541 disk drive in my SX-64.



> Craig, remember the tiny paper-thin LP by "The Jazz Cats" that came with Movie, Musical, Madness?
> Or Gortech and The MicroChips?


No, I honestly do not remember any of these. :shakehead:


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## BugOutGear_USA (Nov 22, 2006)

I had the C64 with a 300 baud modem! Looking back, chatting with someone and seeing one letter coming in at a time was totally ultra high-tech! 

I used to hang out on some of the phreak BBS's when tone generators to get free phone calls were all the hype...those were the days...lol

Flavio


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## Eugene (Nov 22, 2006)

I moved to OH in 91 and brought all my c64 stuff with me and used it my first trimester of college before buying an Amiga 500
I had a commodore color monitor, C64 with the stereo sid mod, 300 baud modem, two 1541 drives, mouse, GEOS, an MPS1200 printer. etc. I bought an SX64 and did the stereo SID mod then replaced the storage bay with a second 1541 drive, it has heat problems though.
I bought an Amiga 500 and a second f3.5" floppy for it, the A64 emulator and the hardware adapter to allow plugging in the c64 serial bus, an extra 512k ram and soldered switches to the board to allow me to switch it between chip and fast ram, then pulled the guts out of the a500 case and mounted it in a homebuilt pc case with a pc 286 system board and was working on adding A2000 slots to the 500 bus, a bridge board to connect the pc bus to the amiga bus and a LUCAS board. I was more into hardware than software though I did play around with writing some software a bit, mostly assembly language.


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## Lightmania (Nov 22, 2006)

I was too young to do any programming on the Commodore 64. That blue screen with light blue outer box meant nothing to me then but I remembered being able to change the font color which was pretty darn cool then! I only played games on it via the back... very often! I can say that this was my very first computer. 

Now, I'm amazed to hear what you guys can do with this simple computer (relatively speaking) back then. Modem? BBS? floppy drive? for the Commodore 64? Wow! 

And those screen shots look great for a Commodore 64, too

Thanks for bring back the memory!

Lightmania


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 22, 2006)

I was mainly into writing software for the machine.

My demo "COM BOY/TDM" was written mainly in BASIC with machine language subroutines; all subsequent demos were written solely in 6510 assembly language, with a one-line BASIC startup like:

*1993 SYS2079 TELEPHONY/TDM '93*

When you type RUN at this point, the demo starts up.

Modem? BBS? Floppy drive?
Yes, yes, and yes.

Modems progressed from 300BPS, to 1200BPS, to a blazing fast (back then) 2400BPS.
I started my BBS with a 1200BPS modem; getting a 2400BPS modem not too much later.

BBS software was quite readily available; ranging from very simple to mind-numbingly complex. I used Ivory Joe's 6485 BBS software and heavily modified it to make it more colorful and offer more subboards and other options that did not exist in the original. So I had named it TDMBBS v7.0, which appeared at logoff.

Floppy disk drives: there was the ever popular 1541 floppy drive; 5.25" floppy diskettes with a storage capacity of 170KB, and the 1581 drive that used 3.5" diskettes and offered 800K in storage (I got my mitts on one of those in 1992 or thereabouts; greatly expanding my BBS). You could also get 5MB and 10MB hard drives marketed under the name "Lt. Kernel", but I never used one because I never had sufficient money purchase one.


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## PhotonWrangler (Nov 22, 2006)

Eugene said:


> I moved to OH in 91 and brought all my c64 stuff with me and used it my first trimester of college before buying an Amiga 500



Another Amigan! Whoo-hoo!  Both the C=64 and the Amiga were ahead of their time, and so were the people using them, especially those who pushed the limits of the hardware in terms of graphics and multimedia.

Commodore used to make file cabinets also, but when they got into computers, well, they dropped their drawers.


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## Trashman (Nov 22, 2006)

Commie!


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## Walt175 (Nov 22, 2006)

Ah, memories! I remember saving programs on my tape drive! Those 1541 disk drives cost more then the C64 did! But I got one eventually. Never did get a modem for it. I used mine mostly for playing games (The C64 section at Toys R Us was the biggest) and a little programming.


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## greg_in_canada (Nov 22, 2006)

A friend and I sold two C64 games that we wrote: Lightcycle and Worm. This was right when it came out and there wasn't much for games available.

They were written in Basic and just used the screen characters. But we had a Basic compiler that made them run plenty fast. We designed artwork for the packaging and sold the games on cassette and floppy disk ($19.95 and $24.95). We had a couple of local computer stores sell them for us. I think we barely made enough to pay for the compiler, but it was fun.

We also tried to talk the Eaton's (department) store into carrying them but they couldn't make that decision locally.

Greg


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 22, 2006)

I wrote some programs in BASIC and then compiled them with the Blitz! compiler - this was before I learned assembly language on the 6510 CPU.

And I used a Commodore 128 to learn, as it had a built-in MLM (machine language monitor) - this is actually how I coded most of my Commodore 64 demos - I could write programs on that MLM, save those memory blocks to disk (using hex addresses so they will load into the correct locations in memory), then assemble them on a Commodore 64 using a linker/compactor program.

The 6510 CPU was considered a RISC processor, because it had an instruction set of just 52 valid instructions, not including at least several quasi-ops.


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## Eugene (Nov 23, 2006)

Lightmania said:


> Now, I'm amazed to hear what you guys could do with a simple computer (relatively speaking) could do back then. Modem? BBS? floppy drive? for the Commodore 64? Wow!
> 
> Lightmania



It took years for the mac/pc world to catch up with things we did back then. I was using a real analog mouse with a GUI based system to do all my school work, different fonts, wrapping text around pictures, WYSIWYG, spell checkers, etc all in the mid 80's in high school. I started college in the early 90's and we had to use Word Perfect for DOS and it was a step backwards for me. It took until the mid 90's when windows 3.x finally got some of the functionality I had. Then finally by the year 2000 Windows was able to achieve the same amount of uptime I had but requires hundreds of times the resources.


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## PhotonWrangler (Nov 23, 2006)

I didn't do any programming on my C=64 (well, a little bit of Basic) but I used it a lot for BBS communications. I also bought an eprom programmer that plugged into the expansion port so I could burn my own eproms. I still have the machine, the programmer, a tape drive and that huge 1541 disk drive. Fun memories!


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## Eugene (Nov 23, 2006)

PhotonWrangler said:


> Another Amigan! Whoo-hoo!  Both the C=64 and the Amiga were ahead of their time, and so were the people using them, especially those who pushed the limits of the hardware in terms of graphics and multimedia.
> 
> Commodore used to make file cabinets also, but when they got into computers, well, they dropped their drawers.



The amiga was really ahead of it time with the graphics co processors doing all the work. You can now get the same level of function if you spend more for a graphics card than my whole amiga cost.
It wasn't until a few years ago that I switched over to Linux that I was able to get close to the same functionality and flexibility as the Amiga.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 23, 2006)

Back in the middle- or late-1980s, there was a peripheral for the Amiga called "The Video Toaster" that I believe allowed one to create all kinds of special effects on live or recorded video. I've never seen it though (I've never seen an Amiga for that matter), so I may be incorrect in what it does.


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## Lightmania (Nov 23, 2006)

I was looking for more screenshots of this and came across this emulator. Thought you folks might get a kick out of it. 

http://www.computerbrains.com/ccs64/

I'm still trying to figure it out, lol. 

Lightmania


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## PhotonWrangler (Nov 23, 2006)

The_LED_Museum said:


> Back in the middle- or late-1980s, there was a peripheral for the Amiga called "The Video Toaster" that I believe allowed one to create all kinds of special effects on live or recorded video. I've never seen it though (I've never seen an Amiga for that matter), so I may be incorrect in what it does.



Exactly right, Craig. The Video Toaster marked the very beginning of desktop video. It was a combination of hardware and software that included a real time studio-in-a-box video switcher and effects device, titler and 3D graphics and animation. I've used them on a number of occasions.

One of the inventors of the Video Toaster is Brad Carvey. If that last name rings a bell, it's because he's the brother of comedian Dana Carvey. I met Brad at a trade show once and he's a brilliant guy. I think that creativity runs in his family.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 24, 2006)

Here are some screen dumps from *AIDS DEMO/TDC* from 1993:































There were some toliet words on a couple of the pages that I censored out.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 24, 2006)

Remember, these demos were written on an 8-bit computer with 38,911 bytes of RAM if you use the BASIC interpreer, but close to 80K if you use machine language only.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 24, 2006)

And here's the C=64 startup screen itself - after a load error occurred. 





oops...got a "*?SYNTAX ERROR*" message this time.   
Loved seeing that particular error...it meant I was human, not an android.


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## Kinnza (Nov 24, 2006)

woow! i envy your memory, The_LED_Museum :bow: 

I started with the Apple II in 1984, i programed in Basic and machine code, but now im sure im unable to write a single line of it :huh2: 

My best friend buy a C64 some years after, and i waste a lot of time with it. Its a great memory, wich i didnt remember in many years. Thanks for refreshing it to me!

It do me thinks about how some creativity from that years had been lost. The great things that existed, wich 64KB of RAM and 128KB of floppy disk wich have the size of a A4 sheet of paper :twothumbs 

There was good chess programs yet, and awesome games

Nice memories


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 24, 2006)

Let's see here...the BASIC and assembly programs you'd need to change the border & background colors to black on a C=64:

0 POKE53280,.OKE53281,.:END

Invoke this BASIC program by typing RUN at the "READY." prompt.
Yes, it is legal to substitute the "0" with the "." in BASIC code on the C=64.


8000 lda #00
8002 sta $D020
8005 sta $D021
8008 rts

Invoke this assembly language routine by typing SYS32768 at the "READY." prompt.


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## NewBie (Nov 24, 2006)

I never spent much time with the fancy 64, but I spent many days programming the Pet Commodore.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 24, 2006)

I have a CBM8032, which is *very* similar in appearance to a Commodore PET.
Both have "green screen" monochrome monitors, and come in a case that looks like this:






It's the thing on the right with the big monaural ghetto blaster on top of it.
This image is blue-green because the sole illumination came from an InReTECH MEGA-SIX flashlight.


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## bitslammer (Nov 24, 2006)

I had only a Commodore VIC-20 with a cassette drive. You are all eletist snobs.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 24, 2006)

Hey...I had a Vic-20 as well...in fact, I made (what I believe was) the world's first completely portable COLOR terminal out of it.

I powered the computer with six D cells, displayed its video on a small (2.5"?) color LCD TV, and connected it to a 300BPS acoustic modem ("mouse ears").
I took it to a nearby bar, typed a short terminal program on it in BASIC, took it to a pay telephone, and called my BBS after connecting the modem cups to the telephone handset...success!!! I successfully logged in, snooped around a bit, then logged off.


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## luigi (Nov 24, 2006)

MSX guy here I was in the other sidewalk.
Was mine the dark side or the light side? We will never know... I used to program in MSX basic, mostly utility applications and some games, the MSX basic was veeery cool, I guess we all miss the peeks and pokes and the simplicity of the 80s where once you knew what you had to know it was just up to your imagination.
My MSX2 with 256K of Ram and 31/2 disk drive was quite advanced for the time being, and it has DOS 2.1 compatible with the DOS that early PCs launched so you can actually transfer files from a PC to the MSX.
Konami games,basic, asm the Z80.... it's always nice to remember those times....

Luigi


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## gadget_lover (Nov 24, 2006)

I remember those days.

I could not afford a vic-20, so I started with a Timex/Sinclair ZX80. Moved to the Atari 8bit line after that. The Atari was not necessarily better or worse than the C-64, just different.

My claim to fame was helping a friend hack one of the more popular BBSes to allow 4 modems. Then we added Xmodem transfers in machine code. It was quite impressive at the time, considering it was a 6502 processor in a 1.79 mhz system. That was the Atari 800.

I no longer remember a single detail of those days. The experience did help me get where I am today.

Daniel

OTOH, anyone remeber memory expansions with bank switching?


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## Canuke (Nov 30, 2006)

PhotonWrangler said:


> Exactly right, Craig. The Video Toaster marked the very beginning of desktop video. It was a combination of hardware and software that included a real time studio-in-a-box video switcher and effects device, titler and 3D graphics and animation. I've used them on a number of occasions.
> 
> One of the inventors of the Video Toaster is Brad Carvey. If that last name rings a bell, it's because he's the brother of comedian Dana Carvey. I met Brad at a trade show once and he's a brilliant guy. I think that creativity runs in his family.



The Video Toaster is what launched me into my current career as a visual FX artist. After dabbling with Turbo Silver and DPaint on my Amiga 2000 (with a Zeus 68040 board and a Picasso 24-bit display board), a friends installed a Video Toaster in it, and I got down to business learning LightWave.

Before that, I was a programmer on the Coleco Adam. I wrote a golf game ("Adam Links Golf"), a football game, a BASIC interpreter modified from the original "Smartbasic", and something else (it's been ages).


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## PhotonWrangler (Nov 30, 2006)

Canuke said:


> The Video Toaster is what launched me into my current career as a visual FX artist. After dabbling with Turbo Silver and DPaint on my Amiga 2000 (with a Zeus 68040 board and a Picasso 24-bit display board), a friends installed a Video Toaster in it, and I got down to business learning LightWave.
> 
> Before that, I was a programmer on the Coleco Adam. I wrote a golf game ("Adam Links Golf"), a football game, a BASIC interpreter modified from the original "Smartbasic", and something else (it's been ages).



Very cool, Canuke! I remember Turbo Silver and DPaint well. DPaint was my first paint program. I also knew the guy who wrote ToasterPaint.


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## Big_Ed (Nov 30, 2006)

I got a Commodore Vic-20 when I was growing up. I ended up getting the Datasette, and a "Big Blue" printer from a company called Protecto Enterprises. It used rolls of fax paper. I did some very basic programming with it, as well as played lots of video games on it. I loved Omega Race, Pole Position, Donkey Kong, and Frogger the best. All of this is still somewhere in my parent's house. A neighbor friend of mine, got a Commodore 128 when it came out, and the graphics and games really blew me away! I later got one, and never really did any programming on it, but got lots of games. I still have that sitting in a box somewhere.

What great memories. Thanks for starting this thread, Craig!!


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 2, 2006)

I made a web page with screen dumps of these demos, links to a C=64 emulator for Windows pee-cees, and three of my demos on it.

http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/seventh/c64.htm

Careful @ work - there's a toliet word on the page - it is the name of one of my demos, so it really couldn't be censored out.


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## ICUDoc (Dec 2, 2006)

Wow what a blast from the past on this thread!
I had a Sinclair ZX-80 then _WOW_ a ZX-81. The Vic-20 was a blast but the Commodore 64 was the best- it was so easy to write in machine code on that thing- the resulting programs were blazing fast- faster than the video chip, so you had to write in raster interrupts and time-out periods just to let things catch up!
These days I couldn't program a bloody thing- where did all my time go???
Anyone remember paying $1000 for 512K of RAM!?!?!?!?!?!


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## Canuke (Dec 3, 2006)

PhotonWrangler said:


> Very cool, Canuke! I remember Turbo Silver and DPaint well. DPaint was my first paint program. I also knew the guy who wrote ToasterPaint.



I'm sure I knew that at one point, can't recall right now. Newtek people I've met include Allan Hastings (LightWave) and Stuart Ferguson (Modeler). The latter two are at Luxology now.

I've also met Tim Jenison a few times, including the Newtek SIGGRAPH party last year, at the Walt Disney Auditorium (it's a Frank Gehry, uh, "creation", that had just opened earlier); we had a brief "laser-off", with his modded greenie about 10mW better than mine. Next time, I bring my PPL


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 3, 2006)

Canuke said:


> I've also met Tim Jenison a few times, including the Newtek SIGGRAPH party last year, at the Walt Disney Auditorium (it's a Frank Gehry, uh, "creation", that had just opened earlier); we had a brief "laser-off", with his modded greenie about 10mW better than mine. Next time, I bring my PPL



I've met Tim Jenison at a couple of NAB shows. That's cool that he carries a modded greenie! Never met Hastings although I know one of the contributors of the original sample 3d model sets pretty well.


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## The_LED_Museum (Dec 4, 2006)

You know, if I still had my C=128 (primarily for its machine language monitor) and my C=64 demo making tools (compactors, linkers, etc.), I'd write a memorial demo for my best friend Paul Casey, who passed away on 06-16-06.


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 4, 2006)

The_LED_Museum said:


> You know, if I still had my C=128 (primarily for its machine language monitor) and my C=64 demo making tools (compactors, linkers, etc.), I'd write a memorial demo for my best friend Paul Casey, who passed away on 06-16-06.



That's sweet, Craig.

Maybe you can write his name on the clouds with a laser demo some evening.


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## Eugene (Dec 7, 2006)

Did you ever see any of the Eric Shwartz Amiga demos?


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## PhotonWrangler (Dec 7, 2006)

Eugene said:


> Did you ever see any of the Eric Shwartz Amiga demos?



Yes!! He was awesome. I think I recall meeting him once during my travels.
He was a legend in the Amiga community.


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## Canuke (Dec 8, 2006)

PhotonWrangler said:


> Yes!! He was awesome. I think I recall meeting him once during my travels.
> He was a legend in the Amiga community.



I did meet him once, either at SIGGRAPH or (more likely) one of the last World of Commodore shows in Toronto.

I nearly got myself booted off the MacLean-Hunter (now Cogeco) cable access team with one of his animations, when I was working in the truck just before we started rolling at a roast for the Mayor of Niagara Falls (Canada). My buddy Jeff asked for a video source to make sure that the big screen behind the head table was working, so I fired up Eric's "Anti-Lemmin' Demo", which was sitting on the desktop of our Video Toaster. Guests were sitting down at the time, and the supervisor was a bit miffed at that particular choice ... I heard later that he was about ready to can me right there.

Tangentially related: that was the day the Niagara Regional police finally arrested that SOB Paul Bernardo. The news flashed through the place midway through the event.


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## Norm (Dec 8, 2006)

As well as programming in basic, I worked for the Commodore for about 5 years.
Norm


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## Ordin_Aryguy (Dec 8, 2006)

The very first computer class I took in college was BASIC programming. Talk about high tech, we were all sitting in front of our very own Commodore PET's, no sharing computers in this class!

Saving our programs was a different story. Each student had to provide his/her own cassette tape, but the class only had one recorder, so it made the rounds at the end of the class period. That cassette recorder was such a pain to use, too. It was easier to keep a single program on a cassette than it was to try to recall one from a serial list of programs stored on the tape... Long way from 4G thumbdrives!

Those were the days, eh?


Ordin


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## ViReN (Jan 24, 2007)

News Flash: *Commodore 64 resurrected on your cell phone*
read more....
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/345/C11431/


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## The_LED_Museum (Jan 29, 2007)

I'm still looking for programs from this diskette:







There is a black rectangle here because one of my demos had a toliet word in its filename.
Think of a kitty cat being flagellated, and you can probably figure it out. 

I already have all of the "MAGFACTOR" files, but none of the others.

TRANSITION/TDM has a ground-breaking 96 line $D016 wave on it.
THUNDERFLUSH/TDM has the digitised sound of a suicide-resistant stainless steel prison comby flushing on it.


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## shanover (Jan 30, 2007)

This brings back memories..... Back in 84 or 85, I was stationed in Hanau, Germany and was pulling CQ one night, my runner asked if he could bring his computer for the night. I didnt see anything wrong with that, so said yeah.. well, I ended up playing on his Apple II for most of the night, and the next day went to the PX and bought a Commodore 64, they had just been released and I think I spent somewhere in the area of $350 for it. While in Germany, I acquired the tape drive, and two 1541 floppies. Fast forward two years, and I came back stateside... first thing I did was buy a C=128, and 2 1581's... got a 300 baud modem and promptly set up a BBS in the Tampa Bay area. At that time, most of the Commodore BBS's were hosted and run by kids for the purpose of pirating games, I had the first adult oriented BBS in the area that I am aware of. (By adult, I mean adult type conversations... at that time, computer porn consisted of ASCII images that you could print out on a dot matrix printer.) I never really got into programming, was mainly interested in the hardware. I hacked up several interfaces for my Commodores, including an RS232 with parts from radio shack so I could use non Commodore modems. Before I finally graduated to PC's (IBM 4.77Mhz Clone, built with hand picked components) I had destroyed several C=64's, and a couple 128's.


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## PhotonWrangler (Jan 30, 2007)

The Commodore 64 was a breakthrough product in it's time. Built-in color, sound and even a BASIC interpreter. That was my big break from having to borrow cpu time on the college's PDP-11s and mainframe to run stuff.

My first computer was a C=64. It's all been downhill from there! :drunk:


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