# Which lathe?



## Ted T (Mar 13, 2006)

Am I right that a lot of you are using a mini lathe from Harbor Freight? If so which one should I get. They have an 8x12 and a 7x10. The 8x12 is $439 and the7x10 is $370 The bigger one weighs a whole lot more, I guess this is an indication of quality. Are you using something different? Any thoughts would be helpfull.
Thanks, Ted


----------



## gadget_lover (Mar 14, 2006)

Welcome to the family, Ted. 

The lathes are very different. To sumarize....

The 7x10 has a geared head with a variable speed controller. Speed is from 100 to 2500 RPM (roughly). It's bed is effectively shorter since the carriage will not move the full 10 inch range. It's a fairly capable machine that is capable of producing parts that are within 1/1000 of an inch. You can work on minimags, 2xCr123A lights, etc with no tricks. You can do a lot of things with a larger light like a 2 D mag.

The 8x12 is a belt driven lathe with a pully system to change the speed. It appears to have a stronger motor. I can't tell from the owners manual if the bed is 2 inches longer than their 7x10 or 4 inches longer like my Cummins 7x12. It's a shame if the over-all length of the bed (from the headstock) is less than 16 inches.

The variable drive is nice for beginners since we often dial it up (or down) till it feels right. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with belt drive.

I had the HF 7x10 and enjoyed it alot. I traded up to a 7x12 for the extra length. All three of these models will take similar accessories.

See www.minilathe.com for a good comparison of all the small lathes.

Daniel


----------



## Ted T (Mar 14, 2006)

Thanks for the response Daniel. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm leaning toward the 8x12 but HF doesn't have one for me to look at.
Ted


----------



## gadget_lover (Mar 14, 2006)

If you have an HF nearby you might call to see if they will take a return if you don't like it. 

You don't say if you have previous experience with lathes. The 7x10 is fairly forgiving. When you screw up it's more likely to stall instead of ripping things from the jaws and flinging them about. That's not to say that it can't do damage, it's just a little bit less likely to. I've had tools jam into a 4 inch long piece of aluminum tube; the tube was destroyed. I don't khow how forgiving the 8x12 is.

BTW, the heavier weight does not haveto mean better quality. It could just be stiffer. It could be heavier. The quality comes down to the alignment, the fit and the materials. Some say the HF lathes are 'kits' that you should expect to fine tune. Mine was pretty decent right from the factory. You will have to adjust gibs and such, but that's totally normal and to be expected. There is some backlash in the turning of the handwheels, but that is something you learn to work with on mills, lathes and other precision equipment.

Daniel


----------



## Ted T (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Daniel. I only used a lathe in high school shop many years ago. I followed your link and ended up checking out the Cummins 7x12 on their web sight. Looks like a good deal. It not only does sae but metric threads. It comes with a moving steady and a fixed steady, a face plate and a cutting tool set, drill chuck and 3 jaw chuck. All for $400+ shipping.
Ted
http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,876.htm


----------



## cy (Mar 15, 2006)

if you have the room, reccomend looking for a used older full sized lathe. hopefully with all the tooling. 

you can find some real deals on Southbend lathes if you look for ads.


----------



## gadget_lover (Mar 15, 2006)

If you are considering the Cummins, you can call the number on their web page to find a truck sale in your area and save the shipping. There's a thread on my Cummins 7x12 at http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=101645


My neighbor has previous experience with machine shop sized lathes and feels like his HF 7x10 is just a toy. Because of that, he's not tried to turn much with it so far. I've not used any of the bigger lathes but find that I can make a lot of things on my mini-lathe with very little trouble. The biggest impediment is my inexperience. Second biggest problem is my timidity. I'm always worried about making cuts that are too deep.

Daniel


----------



## ABTOMAT (Mar 15, 2006)

South Bend, Atlas, and Logan are the three home-sized brands that commonly pop up for sale. Less common are Myford, Rockwell, and some others. An Atlas 10x24" can commonly be had for around $600-800 in good shape, although you can get great deals with a little luck. Mine's like new and cost $200. With any of these machines in 10" size you'd be looking at about 45-65" long overall and 250-600 pounds. Smaller lathes like a Mayford ML7 are only a little bigger and heavier than the 7x14" import. But they're much better than any import that size or smaller. Just need to make sure you don't get one that's worn out.

Of course, there are also times it doesn't make sense. Sears 109 lathes were junk. Atlas 6" lathes are on par with the 7x12 machines. Although longer, they're not as rigid and go for more money.

I'm not up on my mini imports, but I know that one style is a fairly good knockoff of a real lathe. I think that might be the 8" version.


----------



## bwaites (Mar 15, 2006)

Abdomat,

I understand the advice, but I never seem to find the sites that have the lathes for sale as you describe!!

Are there sites that I am missing? Recommendations greatly appreciated!!!

Bill


----------



## ABTOMAT (Mar 15, 2006)

Unless you get lucky (a local machine that the seller won't ship and not much local interest) on eBay, there's no site out there that will regularly produce old machines for you. Online classifieds are as close as you get. I've gotten some great stuff on Craigslist, including my lathe. But it's not easy to find good deals like that. Over the last few months on Boston Craigslist I've seen maybe four or five really good lathe deals, although a couple were a little on the big side. There are lots of other similar sites that are more regional--Want Advertiser, Pennysaver, etc.

Seems that most of the best come from word of mouth. Getting involved with local folks who are into machines, or getting to know shop owners who know people who know people. Someone has a home-sized lathe for sale and sooner or later his friends will know. Hanging out on machinist boards online can do the same thing but you're not as liable to get killer deals. Make yourself known to anyone who'll listen that you're into machining. At some point a friend might call you up and say "You know, an old buddy of mine just died and his wife's looking for someone to take his shop equipment away." Not that that's ever happened to me, but it does happen.

There are a lot of good machine buys in the area around Seattle. All the industry around there closing up. Good machines are available. You might see about finding non-online machinery dealers within driving distance. You won't get a killer deal, but you'll probably get a good machine that's been checked over. Never hurts to do your own inspection, since an unfortunate few have the used car salesman gene.

Personally, I've gotten stuff all kinds of ways. I've had/have five lathes. A Unimat from my father, a South Bend 9" from eBay (basket case I parted out), an antique 12" Reed that a guy at the dump heard about (another basket case I sold cheap), my pristine 10" Atlas from Craigslist, and a sturdy 12" Clausing from the friend of a guy who I bought a 25-ton press from. The Clausing's my current project--poor thing got tipped over by the previous owner.


----------



## gadget_lover (Mar 15, 2006)

The killer for buying used full sized lathes is the shipping. Unless you find it local you may find charges of $500 and up for delivery to your door. 

I have found several lathes on craigslist in the last year that would have been nice if I could pick it up myself. Well , if I had a place to put it. I figure renting a pickup and driving two or three hours to pick up a lathe is nothing compared to hundreds for delivery.

Daniel


----------



## ABTOMAT (Mar 16, 2006)

Ah, the key is to make friends who can help you. I've bribed two people with stuff and befriended a retired machinist.  All have pickups and free time. Road trip! Actually, except for one deal (the SB9) that was way the hell out in the middle of nowhere, everything I've bought was within 45 minutes one-way. If I could swing longer trips I'd probably be broke and be sleeping on lathes.


----------



## bwaites (Mar 16, 2006)

Thanks!

The Seattle idea is a good one, just have to figure out how to tap into the used machine business end, I'm about 2.5 hours away.

Bill


----------



## modamag (Mar 16, 2006)

*bwaites: *Craigslist is a great source for retired american made machinery if you have the space.

*ABTOMAT: *You're correct about the imports. From my limited knowledge the HF8x12 and LM8x14 (same) are produced based on Emco Compact 8. I got a C6B due to the limited space. It's not as good as the SB/Logan but for my limited space (36x72) it's the best I can do for a lathe & mill.

*Ted T: *Most HF store will not carry the 8x12 (44859-1VGA), so you CAN NOT use their 20% off coupon and you will have to pay for the addtl S&H ($50).


----------



## Ted T (Mar 16, 2006)

modamag, I think a may just wait till Cummins has a truck load sale in my area, and get their 7x12 at $400.
Ted T


----------



## kromeke (Mar 29, 2006)

Ted, another source for machinery if your patient, is University/College surplus auctions. You need to know what you are looking for, but maybe later when you need to "upgrade" you can find some good deals. I have a South Bend 11" that I got for $267 (unfortunately no tooling, but I'm experienced, and can get it/make it). The 11" is a bit of an oddball, so parts are hard to come by (mine was in great condition, so I don't need parts). I also know people in the business, so I've been given a 6" chuck and some tooling. A friend of mine also got a Rivett 608 at university auction. He paid $300 for it. They go on ebay for $1500 to $2000 (some in worse condition than his). He got very lucky. Some machines from schools are real beaters, because of inexperienced users, some are pristine because they were in a lab and used by an experienced machinist. If you are a beginner, you may want to try the HF lathes. I've used one, I think they are ok, but I'm spoiled on big machinery. My South Bend weighs 1000 lbs, so it is a heavy tool. A 9" south bend would be a nice starter lathe. 

Gadget lover is right, shipping can be a big expense. I'm lucky, I live in a university town, and the auction guys know me (that doesn't give me an advantage, but I see them often and they can alert me to potential deals) Everything at the school here is a sealed bid. I was able to move my lathe by taking it apart.


----------



## connortn (Apr 3, 2006)

You might also want to do a search for "Lathermasters". I purchased one from Bob at Lathemasters and am very pleased with it. They're a good bit heavier than the Harbor Freight stuff and seem to be very well made for a bench lathe. He has a 14" model and a newer 30" one. I also have one of his new Seig X3 Super mills. I use both of them in musical instrument repairs and they're very accurate.

Connortn


----------

