# Black Diamond Spot vs. Silva Ninox



## Taurig (Dec 7, 2012)

Hey, first post on here, lurked a few times through the reviews but now I have a question of my own. 

Today I took my Alpkit Gamma out of my bag to check it before tomorrows day on the hill, and discovered all was not well. Long story short, it is intermittently turning on and off, and when its on it flickers and jumps from full bright to dim. This is with brand new batteries. I'm going to email Alpkit as I think they are generally quite good about these things, but this may be the time to fork out for something a bit more expensive and, hopefully, reliable.

Basically I'm looking for a headtorch suitable for mountaineering. It doesn't have to be silly bright (the Alpkit's 70ish lumens was fine), but something that works with a climbing helmet, can be used with gloves, is pretty rugged for use in rain and snow, and isn't overly heavy would be good. One feature that I would definitely like is a 'lock' on the on-button so that it can be stuffed into my rucksack without worrying about draining the batteries. Taking apart battery cases to take tape off the cells in a blizzard is not fun. The two options that I have come up with are the Black Diamond Spot and the Silva Ninox.

The Black Diamond was my original choice; BD have a mountaineering background, the button has a lock feature activated by holding it down, and IPX4 should be fine for my use. It seems to have better burn times than the Ninox. The Ninox is harder to find reviews on, but those that I can find are largely positive. Instead of locking the button, it seems you can just flip the unit so that the button is guarded, which sounds good. It is slightly brighter, but at the expense of shorter burn times, and is IPX7. 

Could anyone offer advice on what would be best to go for? I don't know much at all about all the circuits, LEDs and so on, I just want something reliable with a way to stop itself turning on in my bag.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## asval (Dec 7, 2012)

Would help out if you posted what batteries you prefer to use and in what configuration (3AAA, 3AA, etc. ) 

Also when you say burn-time in what lumens range? do you need a moonlight mode? budget?

If it were me I'd choose an IPX8 rated light that ran on batteries that could handle the cold.


----------



## Taurig (Dec 7, 2012)

I have to be honest, batteries hadn't really crossed my mind, I suppose AAA would be noticeably lighter so probably those?

Not really sure what a moonlight mode is. I'd just be using it to get back down the hill after dark, bit of map reading, camping, perhaps finishing off a climb in the dark if it all goes arse over tit. Budget would be up to about £50.


----------



## Bolster (Dec 7, 2012)

I know it's frustrating when people question your premise rather than answer your question, but like asval I think you have some premises to examine before you buy. Few would think IPX4 was sufficient for mountaineering in rain and snow. AAA batteries have very little advantage weight-wise and a big penalty capacity-wise. Have a look at what the popular lights are (see link in my sig) and also what choices are the important ones to be made when choosing (ditto). My "professional" (LOL) opinion is that you need to be thinking more generally about your needs and choices before you converge on the two particular lights you've mentioned.

Or, alternately, buy one of your two choices as a stop-gap as you shop for an ideal light. Never hurts to have a spare.

If I were in your shoes, I'd give a long thought to a SureFire Minimus (using lithium based CR123) or one of the Spark headlamps that could take a lithium primary, as the Sparks seem well-sealed and robust to me. Asval's correct -- you should be considering lithium primaries due to the cold. Spark just put out a headlamp that allows you to keep the battery pack inside your jacket (the SX5) and it is pretty inexpensive for what you get.


----------



## rojos (Dec 8, 2012)

Don't get the Spot; it has too many points where it can leak. Get the Storm instead and pair it with some Eneloop batteries. The Storm is pretty much waterproof, it does a decent job of keeping batteries insulated, and paired with Eneloops, it'll give you decent power in the cold. The Storm also has a switch lock-out which you mentioned wanting to have.


----------



## florinache (Dec 8, 2012)

Go with Spark. Try the ST6 NW. You'll appreciate the extra lumens with a nice colour rendering. 
The Eneloops work better than alkalines in cold, but not as good as Lithium. At around -5 degrees Celsius (23F) they begin to "loose" power. And if you use a headlamp with the battery on the forehead (if it's mounted on the helmet it doesn't matter if it's in the back either, being unprotected by the hood) you-ll get just about half of the specified mah. I use Eneloops in winter (down to -20F) only in a separate pack.


----------



## Mooreshire (Dec 8, 2012)

I second florinache's suggestion of the BD Storm. A buddy of mine recently borrowed one from my roommate for a fifteen day long trip deep into the Olympic Mountains (he had concluded that his Apex Pro was too heavy and wanted to carry something much smaller and lighter). When he returned it he said that the runtime and brightness were perfect - he had to keep it dimmed to half output or less to avoid glare off the snow when traveling at night, and after two weeks he still hadn't replaced the lithium primary (disposable) batteries he had put in it. It's very lightweight and is sufficiently waterproof as long as you aren't planning to do any swimming with it.

The other suggestions of Spark and Surefire models are very good too (although I feel the Spark SX5 is a bit bulky for mountaineering). The Silva you mentioned also looks quite nice. It sounds to me like you won't have any trouble finding lots of options - good luck narrowing down your final choice though. ;-)

In case you didn't already know, IPX4 only means that it can be splashed (not sprayed) with water for five minutes. 5 means sprayed for three minutes, 6 means a _powerful _spray for three minutes, and 7 means it can sit under 1 meter of water for thirty minutes (and 8 means anything better than 7 but it has to be further defined by the manufacturer, usually they give a depth rating).


----------



## Taurig (Dec 8, 2012)

Thanks all for the replies so far. They've definitely helped as I now have taken the Spot off the short list and replaced it with the Storm. 

Regarding the Spark and Surefire headtorches, I live in the UK, and from my preliminary searches it seems we have to pay a premium for these products. I could buy a Storm, a Ninox and still have change for a few pints for the price of the Surefires that are available to me. I've no doubt they are high quality from the number of recommendations on here, but I just can't justify that cost. The brands I have easy access to are really Petzl, Black Diamond, Silva, LED Lenser, Mammut and a few others, so preferably I'd choose from one of those.

On the subject of batteries, I'm thinking of getting some Eneloops to save the polar bears. If they only start fading at -5 degC I should be alright, as Scotland can be fairly cold but it's still not quite Alaska! I'd rather not go for CR123s as pretty much every petrol station here stocks AA and AAA, but not all will have CR123, especially up north.

I have to say I'm leaning towards the Silva as they do make quality gear (mainly compasses) and, to be honest, it's just a bit different to the norm.


----------



## LeeEdc (Dec 10, 2012)

How about the Silva Ranger pro? Better water proofing and a red led. About $35.


----------



## Taurig (Dec 10, 2012)

LeeEdc said:


> How about the Silva Ranger pro? Better water proofing and a red led. About $35.



Hey, thanks for the reply, but the Ninox has a red LED, they are both IPX7, and the Ninox is 110 lumens versus the 35 of the Ranger, so I think it's not as good.

Never seen the point of red LEDs much, people talk about reading maps with them but I assume they've never tried, as all the contours disappear (well, on UK OS maps anyway)!


----------



## johnny0000 (Dec 10, 2012)

I'd have to second the BD Storm. Great headlamp at a reasonable cost. Waterproof enough and if you're already looking at the Spot, might as well get the Storm. I'll throw it out there, but the Petzl MYO RXP performed flawlessly for me. Some Eneloops would be perfect as well.


----------



## Climb14er (Dec 13, 2012)

For the record, I've been a mountaineer for forty years and flashlights and headlamps for this use have come a LONG way. Currently, I have a Princeton Tec EOS, latest version and a Black Diamond Storm, also their latest version. Both use AAA's and the EOS uses three and the Storm four.

Both are excellent headlamps and when I reach for my climbing pack, the Storm is what I choose!

When I go to altitude and for many miles solo, say on a high 13er or 14er, especially in the winter, I pack extra batteries, 'just in case'. I'm also going to be carrying a very small backup light, either the ZL52 or the EagleTac 25A Ti Clicky 2013 when they arrive which should be any day because when solo and in the winter, you need redundancy.

For the record, I have NEVER had an EOS or an earlier Princeton Tec headlamp crap out on me... NEVER. This is my first BD headlamp and I've been using BD equipment for MANY years and I trust their equipment.

If you want a mountaineering recommendation, get the BD Storm and enjoy!


----------



## blatant1 (Feb 8, 2013)

florinache said:


> At around -5 degrees Celsius (23F) they begin to "loose" power.


At -5 degrees the batteries get loose and fall out????


----------



## tomrit (Mar 14, 2013)

blatant1 said:


> At -5 degrees the batteries get loose and fall out????


lower temperature would decrease the batteries discharge performance.


----------



## lightcycle1 (May 2, 2013)

I just bought a BD Spot and like it. very versatile
flood/ throw/dimmable/ red leds and a battery indicator. i think its a great little lamp for 40 bucks.
3 year warranty, but ive never had a problem with any BD product. i think its a general purpose winner.
Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2


----------

