# Quad Cree Q5 Which host design?



## Northern Lights (Jul 16, 2007)

Please help this ol' Incan HOT wire guy see the light! I want a Cree Q5 QUAD. Please give me your opinion and suggestion.

I actually use my lights in my profession and this is the same paticular need that got me to CPF and turned me into a Flashaholic in the first place!
I need a light that can in combination give me the most TORCH-LUMENS, Best THROW and longest BURN TIME. Now I want it in a quad LED.
background:
I have modded a Nuwai TM-800x3 with 3 SCC P4, stars, uswoh. Great results. TM-800x3 reflectors do out throw IMS 20's (reported by other modders by direct comparison). I can mod these hosts to C or Ds but 3X NiMh Ds produce 12,000mAh of power. I can mod these to variable brightness by each click to have, 1, 2 and finally all 3 LEDs on and the output preset for each position with a resistor. I can also mod this light differently to run with all three LEDs running and have three levels of out put, one for each click of the three position switch.
Possible hosts:
*1]**Now if I make this a Quad I need a flat heat sink, the light retains its heat sinks with a screw down ring and the sink is about 2mm bigger than a mag D, so a D could fit but the back side should be flat. I would use 4x IMS 20 reflectors,(that 2mm should help). I would run the Quad in paralle with 25%,50% and 100% (1 watt) power on each succesive click. This light is not regulated, but uses resistors to step down, Vb is 3.6 volts.*
*2] I take a 3D Mag host and run a buck/boost or shark and remora. I do want variable out put. Buck boost would be in parallel I presume and the shark/remora is a series circuit. Vb=3.6, 12, mAh.*
*or last idea:*
*3] I use a 2C cell, AW lithium Cs, Mag host, Shark and Remora for the standard quad build. I understand full power is about 1.5 hour run time.*

*What do you think would give me the run time? All of these builds used the same reflector, throws the same, same LEDs, lumens the same. I guess it is run time at the highest lumens. What should I do?*
*NL*


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## IsaacHayes (Jul 16, 2007)

use mcr20-xr or fraen xr-e reflector if cost is an issue.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 17, 2007)

IsaacHayes said:


> use mcr20-xr or fraen xr-e reflector if cost is an issue.


The Fraen reflectors and LEDs cost over a Hundred! Guess I am serious about this light. I am looking at Cutter's drivers, they got one that has a pot too.


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## wintermute (Jul 17, 2007)

Cutter charges *way too much* for those Fraen reflectors. He didn't even pay for them - they were a free sample. Arrow carries them for $0.96/ea - but are out of stock at the moment. Wayne over at Elektro Lumens got some samples and sold them for $1 each.

Also, Q5's are only $15 from Cutter now...see post in Dealer section of Marketplace.


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## nanotech17 (Jul 17, 2007)

why now all of a sudden the price drop to almost 50% barely 2 weeks old?


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## wintermute (Jul 17, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> why now all of a sudden the price drop to almost 50% barely 2 weeks old?



I suppose when Cutter first received, they were told they had the 1st reel. Then when others started to get reels - Cutter had to drop the price. That's what you get for being early adopters. I don't like WG tint - so I saved myself some money.


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## easilyled (Jul 17, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> why now all of a sudden the price drop to almost 50% barely 2 weeks old?






wintermute said:


> I suppose when Cutter first received, they were told they had the 1st reel. Then when others started to get reels - Cutter had to drop the price. That's what you get for being early adopters. I don't like WG tint - so I saved myself some money.




No just an admission, if ever there was one that they were overpriced in the first place, like I suspected, given that 
Cutter's Q5 price was so much more than their Q4 price.

My good old friend wintermute talked them up no end though, as if they
were gold dust (and slated DealExtreme for charging so much less, saying they were probably fakes) He seems to have changed his tune a bit towards Cutters now, looking at post #4. 

Anyway, going back to the thread topic, I would have thought that McR19 Reflectors were the best to use with
the Cree Q5 XRE's since McGizmo specially designed these reflectors to utilise the narrow beam of the Cree
and harness it to the maximum for throw. Can also get self-centering rings from Mac to use with these.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 17, 2007)

I paid 7/16 current price for the q5. Problem is as I have watched the other bins come out they run short as the supply and demand match. DX probably has access to the q5 but they do not stock anything and rely on drop ship. So, even if the price drops 50% that is nothing in total cost to have it now to fill a desire, need. Its fun to build, what is it worth? To me it is not a business proposition. I want it now.
Wayne had good info on the fraen, they will do the job I want, which is throw. I know Cutter got them along with everyone else as samples. But where are they now? Everyone is out of stock and no promises of when they will appear. $0.96 or $6 is nothing. Wait until in life you make a $100,000 dollar misjudgement. Then you will see life is short; what price for some enjoyment? I guess if I was worried about price I would have only one flashlight on the shelf. It would not be a SF. 
My bench is cluttered with new unsused components, reflectors, FM parts. I spend dollars on raw materials for a ceramic bi-Pin to Pr socket. I am not dependent on one maker. Hey, soon I will offer the Northern Lights ceramic Pr to Bi-Pins socket that is made with real Mill-max pin connectors not a hole. Hey, now I am off topic. Please tell me about designs!


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## Northern Lights (Jul 20, 2007)

Great discussion on where Cutter gets their inventory and pricing. Doesn't answer my question, oh well.
Are there any modders out there that know anything about building quad LED lights? Quad Q5, longest run time. What do I do? Nimh, like 3Ds at 12 amp/hours or two lithium Cs, 7.2 volts at 3 Amp hours. Which is going to function best with variable output.?
I am so inclined to build a 3D, parallel LEDs and a multi-position switch on three succesive resistors running parallel. Then again the 2C model on a shark and remora looks good but is limited run time.
Did anybody ever consider run times?


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## barkingmad (Jul 20, 2007)

Northern Lights said:


> I paid 7/16 current price for the q5. Problem is as I have watched the other bins come out they run short as the supply and demand match. DX probably has access to the q5 but they do not stock anything and rely on drop ship. So, even if the price drops 50% that is nothing in total cost to have it now to fill a desire, need. Its fun to build, what is it worth? To me it is not a business proposition. I want it now.
> Wayne had good info on the fraen, they will do the job I want, which is throw. I know Cutter got them along with everyone else as samples. But where are they now? Everyone is out of stock and no promises of when they will appear. $0.96 or $6 is nothing. Wait until in life you make a $100,000 dollar misjudgement. Then you will see life is short; what price for some enjoyment? I guess if I was worried about price I would have only one flashlight on the shelf. It would not be a SF.
> My bench is cluttered with new unsused components, reflectors, FM parts. I spend dollars on raw materials for a ceramic bi-Pin to Pr socket. I am not dependent on one maker. Hey, soon I will offer the Northern Lights ceramic Pr to Bi-Pins socket that is made with real Mill-max pin connectors not a hole. Hey, now I am off topic. Please tell me about designs!


 
AFAIK DX *had* stock of the Q5's but unsurprisingly sold out very quickly - think they are now back-ordered a few days... think I paid $40 for 2 Q4's only a short time ago and now I can get 2 Q5's for half the cost?!


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## Northern Lights (Jul 20, 2007)

Northern Lights said:


> Great discussion on where Cutter gets their inventory and pricing. Doesn't answer my question, oh well.
> Are there any modders out there that know anything about building quad LED lights? Quad Q5, longest run time. What do I do? Nimh, like 3Ds at 12 amp/hours or two lithium Cs, 7.2 volts at 3 Amp hours. Which is going to function best with variable output.?
> I am so inclined to build a 3D, parallel LEDs and a multi-position switch on three succesive resistors running parallel. Then again the 2C model on a shark and remora looks good but is limited run time.
> Did anybody ever consider run times?





barkingmad said:


> AFAIK DX *had* stock of the Q5's but unsurprisingly sold out very quickly - think they are now back-ordered a few days... I assume as a distributor Cutter pays less for them than DX so it does seem very 'expensive' when think they were being offered as a group buy!


 
Please!!!!!!!!! Ah... no more about prices!!!!!!! money is not the point... You guys crack me up. I see you all love to pull my chain. Ha! 

JUST TELL ME THE BEST WAY TO BUILD IT FOR BURN TIME AT FULL POWER!​​I will borrow Bernie's (FirstDsent) signature:
If it's worth driving, it's worth overdriving!
 How?


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 22, 2007)

I'd recommend using 3 X Li-ion C cells in a Mag C host, Shark w/ external pot, PXR heatsink, McR19XR reflectors, and Mirageman centering rings. I've built some of these (2 X 18650) and the components work together very well.

You can use 2 C cells as well, but 3 will make life easier for the Shark and give you the runtime you seek. Use lots of thermal compound beween the sink and head/tube, this light will generate some heat.


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## DonShock (Jul 22, 2007)

I've built a quad P4 Cree in a bored out Mag2D. Power is from 8AA with a Shark driver and an external pot. Heatsink is a PXR19 and McR19XR reflectors. I haven't bothered to do a full run yet to figure out runtime. I have some parts on the way from Download to try a build with 5 Q2 Crees.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 22, 2007)

DonShock said:


> I've built a quad P4 Cree in a bored out Mag2D. Power is from 8AA with a Shark driver and an external pot. Heatsink is a PXR19 and McR19XR reflectors. I haven't bothered to do a full run yet to figure out runtime. I have some parts on the way from Download to try a build with 5 Q2 Crees.


 Very close to what I had in mind, I will keep watching for your report. When new methods pop up it is always a good excuse to build another light too!


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## Northern Lights (Jul 22, 2007)

LED Zeppelin said:


> I'd recommend using 3 X Li-ion C cells in a Mag C host, Shark w/ external pot, PXR heatsink, McR19XR reflectors, and Mirageman centering rings. I've built some of these (2 X 18650) and the components work together very well.
> 
> You can use 2 C cells as well, but 3 will make life easier for the Shark and give you the runtime you seek. Use lots of thermal compound beween the sink and head/tube, this light will generate some heat.


This sounds like it might be the compromise I am looking for. The three Cs lithium opposed to the 3D NiMh. It surely has numbers that favor the shark. A few builds are around with the external pots. How about the Remora board? I have been using AWs new C incan driver for a few days now and I like the one button choices and I understand the Remora is a last used memory function too. There is a lot of good reviews on teh McR19xR reflector. I was caught on the Cree reflector having a bit more throw from the thread that Wayne had on them. The throw is very important to me.


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## discoverEDC (Jul 24, 2007)

Arrow has the Fraen FRC reflector in stock, go to the link below and paste the following part number into their part finder:

FRC-N1-XR79-0R

http://www.arrownac.com

Per Elektrolumen's design philosophy a quad SSC light (SSC's wired in parallel) direct drive off of 3C NiMH gets 1.5 to 2 hours of runtime. Change that to 3D NiMH you get 3 to 4 hours of runtime. This is only semi-regulated of course.

Based on this design and the fact the the SSC and Cree share the same die, I plan on building a tri-cree light with the new Fraen reflectors. Using three 6,000 mAh NiMH I expect to get 500+ torch lumens for about 2 hours. More emitters would be nice but I'm being as cheap as I can.

Another design for you to ponder.


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 24, 2007)

The McR19 has great throw. The spread of light is relatively narrow, but the spill is bright. Here are some recent beamshots (taken with white balance set to sunshine, F3.5, 2sec). The little pine tree at right is at 20', the trio of small pines in the distance about 125', and the forest behind 175'.

Left is a SF M6 w/HOLA, center is a Quad McR20S/SSC P4 USWOH/Shark/pot, and at right is a Quad McR19XR/Cree Q4 WH/Shark/pot.








The Remora is a great accessory to the Shark. I like pots for their seamless variation in output, but they do introduce a moving part that is exposed to knocks. If you can do without a stealthy ultra low level the Remora is a nice solution, and it does have the handy memory.

I've been getting 930 mA max drive current with the Shark and a 20K pot. I believe the Remora can deliver a bit more, near 1000 mA.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 25, 2007)

discoverEDC said:


> Arrow has the Fraen FRC reflector in stock, go to the link below and paste the following part number into their part finder:
> 
> FRC-N1-XR79-0R
> 
> ...


Arrownac was out of reflectors, everyone except cutter. So do it now means $6. I like your idea, it is the Elektrolumen quad that I was considering and comparing that to the TM-800x3 which I like I figured direct drive with varialble output done on a rotating three position switch, keep adding resistors in parrallel. 3D with NiMh from Thomas distributing, 12000 mAh by your estimates is maybe 8 hours! I like that and am leaning towards it. I want this light for run time. I have 5761 in 2 C cells that output almost 900 lumens and they have variable output if I need to extend the time. That runs just over 30 minutes so a 2C at twice the run time and half the lumens in a 4x Q5 can be done by runing the incan at a lower power. But for shear sexyness the 2C quad is a neat light.


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## thefish (Jul 26, 2007)

Arrow Electronics seems to have 884 of the reflectors in stock now... let me know how this turns out. I have a old 2D [email protected] I got a while back planning to mod and then just never got around to it.


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## yellow (Jul 27, 2007)

I have used the 16, 17, 19 and 27 mm XR-E Reflectors from the Shoppe, as well as their normal 19 mm model, with P3, P4 and Q2 Crees,
and the 19 mm is the best (I like the normal one more, both give the same results)

The 27 mm gives a bit a better focused beam, but does not grab as much light (wider and not this deep) and is a PITA to place. imho not worth the hassle + needs much more space


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## Nereus (Jul 30, 2007)

Northern Lights said:


> ... JUST TELL ME THE BEST WAY TO BUILD IT FOR BURN TIME AT FULL POWER!


 
You may find my pictured tutorial about building a 4*Seoul 2D mag interesting.

-N


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## Northern Lights (Jul 30, 2007)

Nereus said:


> You may find my pictured tutorial about building a 4*Seoul 2D mag interesting.
> 
> -N


I did find it interesting, and those tutorials from a few other members posts, I studied them. All are about 2C mods. Those are very beautiful lights. I think my biggest question still lies between powering the quad on 2 of AWs C cells with a Shark or going to a 3D, direct or resistor dropped drive on 12 Ah NiMh cells. I am looking for long run time and still want to get 1 amp out of the Q5s too. Regulated lights have steady out put and you get better out put curves on a graph. But the 12000 mAh Ds have so much reserve I forsee that the run would almost look regulated because of the extended time. From the moment you turn on a DD or resistor reduced light it begins to dim whereas a regulated light is constant output or near so for most of the run time. With nearly equal power supplies this difference is apparent. I am believing that the larger power supply of the 3D would overcome that phenomenae of the appearance of a rapid drop in output of DD/reistor regulated.


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## Northern Lights (Aug 10, 2007)

discoverEDC said:


> Arrow has the Fraen FRC reflector in stock, go to the link below and paste the following part number into their part finder:
> 
> FRC-N1-XR79-0R
> 
> ...


 
I'M STUCK AGAIN!:mecry:
The LEDs came with a Vf of 3.75 for 1 Amp, where I intend to run them.
DD for 3Ds is not really enough umph, why have the highest output LED unless you are going to drive it?
So for resistor drive it looks like I need 4.8 volts, is that correct?
And if I run a Shark I gotta go about 8 volts. 
Fatman can't handle the load.
So it looks like if I want the max run time I gotta go 4D or more and use a buck driver.
Anyone have experience with this driver:*3021-D-I-1000 Buck Puck* 
available at cutter and theledlight
http://www.leddynamics.com/LuxDrive/datasheets/3021-BuckPuck.pdf :thinking:
Could I run these four, Vf=3.75, in parallel with some driver? If I run series I get up in voltage high enough I will need to go lithium and there is not enough mAh there. 3000mAh from AW cells, compare that to 12000 from a Nimh D. See my dilema?
A resistor drive is gonna fall out fast. :sigh:
A boost probably will not have enough capacity to get the run time I want. 
Am I seeking a holy grail that cannot be had at this Vf? 
Somehow I think I gotta go 4D-cell, 4.8 volts and a buck on parallel LEDs,

Working with Shark and BuckPuck speck sheets, if I use D cells I come out with 7 cells for the shark,
5 cells for the buck puck. Usning C lithium that is 2 and 3 respectively. A lot of difference in tube sizes and 4 times the difference in capacity. Are my numbers correct? 
I hope I got this correct...or has my dream light just.
I know someone has crossed that problem and solved it, can't find your post however.
NL, the darkness is falling about me....:candle:

Is direct drive on 4Ds my only option for those long run times?

:help:


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## yellow (Aug 10, 2007)

I am not sure what exactly to give ideas, as You are jumping around too quick ...
... so lets say host = 3D + quademitter

FIRST: NEVER RUN LEDS IN PARALLEL!!!
Sure, it has been done, but if You happen to get some with very different Vf, then the one with the lowest will see way too much current and will die soon, while the other (at first) dont run full
--> ALWAYS IN SERIES!

Second: batteries!
(roughly) three Ni-Mhs = 1 led, or ONE Li-Ion = 1 Led
so, for quadEmitter:
3 Ds: needs step up and four times the current --> 12000 mAh cells = 3 hours
1 Li-Ion: needs step up and four times the current --> 2200 mAh cells = 1/2 hour
(but they are much smaller and thus there could be used several in parallel instead of the *three* Ds. Thats why most ppl use them, one needs less cells)

Shark should be able to run the quad-setup from 3Ds or 1 Li-Ion.
More cells would be way better (Li-Ion up to three in series).

Now think of what space You have --> what cells to use --> how many --> calculate runtime --> see if ok, or not


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## buschpounder (Sep 25, 2007)

Northern, Ive been reading your threads and interested in your designs. I'm new to this but want to try and mod a mag for my needs. I'm in the same line of work you are. Let us know how your light turns out please. Also, could you tell me how you get 14 aa's in the 3d mag? Are they in a type of carrier, if so, where did you get it? thanks


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## Northern Lights (Sep 25, 2007)

buschpounder said:


> Northern, Ive been reading your threads and interested in your designs. I'm new to this but want to try and mod a mag for my needs. I'm in the same line of work you are. Let us know how your light turns out please. Also, could you tell me how you get 14 aa's in the 3d mag? Are they in a type of carrier, if so, where did you get it? thanks


This is great thread to complete the idea of what to build, 3,4 or 5 build LED:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174064

I build a boringing mill. 14 AAs go into a 3D by boring 4x and stacking 3 stacks of 4 then two offset on the end goe down into the tail cap. Off course you remove the spring.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/169824
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/143345

Best AA cells are Powerex or Sanyo
http://www.rechargeable-battery-rev...showdown-review.html#AANiMHBatteryPerformance


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## buschpounder (Sep 25, 2007)

Thank you for the reply. I have been studying firecop's thread but didn't know about the other one's you supplied. I'll be studying them too. Thanks


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## Aircraft800 (Oct 20, 2007)

Northern Lights,

Did you ever finish this mod? I accidentally started a thread just like this one, and didn't see yours in the search function until I was looking for Mcr19XR Reflectors. I'm still looking for a source.

Great Job and very informative post. I'll put a link to it in my post for reference.

Thanks!


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## Northern Lights (Oct 20, 2007)

Aircraft800 said:


> Northern Lights,
> 
> Did you ever finish this mod? I accidentally started a thread just like this one, and didn't see yours in the search function until I was looking for Mcr19XR Reflectors. I'm still looking for a source.
> 
> ...


Still in process, got a great sink to work with now, took the notched sink and put a sheet of copper onto it and polished it flat, will use a paper 5-point star as the template. Then I went to finishing 6 hot wires. Now back to this. 
The bulk of the thread is covered in the same topic in this thread, I moved my thoughts to here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174064


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## yellow (Oct 20, 2007)

> looking for Mcr19XR Reflectors. I'm still looking for a source


how come You have never read of "Sandwich Shoppe" in here? :thinking:

http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/index.php?cPath=48_50_64


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## Northern Lights (Oct 20, 2007)

yellow said:


> how come You have never read of "Sandwich Shoppe" in here? :thinking:
> 
> http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/index.php?cPath=48_50_64


Not sure what you mean? I am using SS products in my light?


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