# SF A2: greenLED's comparison of LED colors (with pics)



## greenLED (May 29, 2006)

*A2: greenLED's comparison of LED colors*

A lot has been said about the SureFire A2. The most comprehensive treatise of the A2 is this thread by js (followed by Part 2). If you're hungry for more, you need to visit Atomic Chicken's Index of A2 threads. 

Despite all this information, though, a thread comparing all available A2 LED colors side by side was missing from CPF. To fill this void, I contacted several fellow CPF'ers and SureFire and borrowed their lights for this shootout. This wouldn't've been possible without them trusting me with their lights (names and proper acknowledgements are below). :bow:
*The setup:*
All A2's used in this comparison were using fresh batteries. All testing was done indoors, as I didn't want to take borrowed lights outside and risk any damage. I won't refer to the overall design and features, since all that has been covered ad naseum elsewhere. Camera settings are mentioned in the appropriate sections.
*LED comparison:*
Please note that, because of the nature of this light (LED/incan hybrid) and the reflector's design, the outside of the beam will have artifacts, regardless of what LEDs are used. Also, these are indoor observations. I know from experience beam aritfacts are unnoticeable at a distance of 10m or so while outdoors and walking around.

Even though I've been vocal against "wall hunting", I doing exactly that for this review.  I expect all mention of beam imperfections to be moot when using the light "for real" (which I intend to do - a lot!).


*Part I: Comparison of A2 LED colors:* 


_ The A2 family__:
_(owner names in parentheses)
blue (SureFire, sent to me by Stuart)
green (rscanady)
orange (souptree)
red (bullzeyebill)
red TCH3 modded (oregonshooter)
UV (PoliceScannerMan)
yellow/green (Y/G) (dragoman)
white Nichia LED - stock (greenLED)
white SMJLED mod (lasercrazy)
white snow LED mod (bwaites, mod by Milkyspit)
white THC3 LED mod (bwaites, mod by Milkyspit)
This thread (2006), and this one (2007) have polls indicating which colors are more common. The first poll deals with stock color options, while the second poll includes options for mods as well as stock colors.


Most pics were taken with 0"3 speed and 4.5 aperture. The orange A2 LED's were shot using different settings (see below for details). Although you'll see the tints of white vary a bit because I neglected to force a white balance, relative brightness should be comparable. In all paired pics, the stock LED is on the right. The wall we were shooting on is white.

Let's start with a family shot. From left to right:
SMJLED, green, stock, red, Y/G.








Here are a couple of pics including the blue LED A2:



 



Pic to the left: Nichia, green, blue, red THC3 mod
Pic to the right: green, red THC3 mod, blue, Nichia


*Green LED:
(Owner: rscanady)
* 


 

 



The white-balance is off and makes the stock LED look purple in the first pic (to the left); the tint should be the "angry blue" we're used to seeing in white Nichia LEDs. As with other colored 5mm LED's, the beam is of the green LED A2 is full of artifacts. Despite this, the LEDs are very bright and provide ample illumination for any task. Color rendition is not superb, but my depth perception was not hindered (as it is for some people when using red LEDs). Gotta love the color! 

We did a comparison shot (middle pic) between my "green" ArcAAA (thanks, Larry!) and rscanady's green A2... my green ArcAAA actually looks turquoise compared to the green A2.  You can also see how much brighter the green A2 is (the batt on the ArcAAA is new). The third pic to the right is a side-by-side pic of green LED and red THC3 mod. 


*Red LED:
(Owner: BullzeyeBill)
* 


 

The beam is made of a central hotspot and an outer ring, with a darker void in between both areas. This is more or less typical of the red LEDs I've seen. This is one of the brightest A2 LED colors. The tint is a very deep red that I liked a lot.

As I slight side note, Bullzeye has been running li-ions on his A2. I do not know if that's had an effect on the LED output at all, or whether that is a function of my eyes perceiving color intensity differently. Also, I'd like to mention my wife tends to lose depth perception when using red LED. I'm not sure if that's because of the changes in contrast or color rendition, or what, but I thought I'd mention it.


*Red THC3 LED mod:
(Owner: oregonshooter)
* 




The beam on the red THC3 LEDs is much smoother and tighter than the stock red; I liked this difference. The THC3 LEDs also look slightly orangey (when you look into them, not when actually looking at the beam projection), whereas I remember the stock reds being a deeper red. The LEDs on this unit are not sanded to smooth out the beam, which is somewhat unexpected in colored LED's. 

You'll notice the red THC3 mod seems _slightly _dimmer than the stock red LEDs. I did use the same camera settings, so I am not sure if this is because the white balance on my camera changed and that affected how the pic came out (for example, the pic with the red THC3 shows the blueish tint typical of the Nichia, while the pic of the stock red didn't capture that). Also, I took pics of the red THC3 mod a few weeks after I returned the stock red A2, and my memory could be faulty at this stage.

Given the above, take the brightness comparison with a grain of salt. The differences in tightness and smoothness of the beam are to be trusted, though.


*Yellow/Green (Y/G) LED:
(Owner: dragoman)
* 




Man, this is a weird color! It took me completely by surprise when I first saw them. My first impression was: "Damn, these things are worthlessly dim!" But, once your eyes are dark adapted, the Y/G LED's are plenty bright.

The more I used the Y/G, the more I liked it. This color could very well be one of the most useful LED colors out there; no NV gear needed! After a while of using and comparing this color to the others, I can say that the beam/brightness is more useful than some of the other LEDs, and color rendition is not bad at all! Since I already have a white LED A2, this would be the one I'd chose next.

The beam pattern is very interesting; the LEDs are very blotchy. However, as VWTim very cleverly pointed out when we were testing the lights, that's part of what makes them so useful! The beam is so irregular, that it smooths itself out - there really isn't a discernable pattern to see. It sounds counterintuitive, but it's not. Just like sputtering a reflector smooths out a beam, I think the blotchiness of the Y/G LEDs add to a very useful beam.


*Blue LED:*
(Supplied directly by SureFire, through Stuart)



 

Blue LED A2 to the left, and stock Nichia to the right, and some pics comparing blue LED against green and THC3 red:
blue vs. green - blue vs. THC3 red



 



For some reason the camera made the blue appears a bit brighter than what I actually saw. Nevertheless, I was surprised at how bright the blue LED's are; I'd rate them second only to the green LED's (and by close margin). The beam has the usual artifacts found in other colored LED's, but nothing a little sanding can't fix.  

From what I hear, blue LED's are intended to be used by hunters, to track blood at night. I cannot vouch for that use, but there's a funny story on the SF website about someone using their blue LED A2 to light up a party with hip-hop artists Redman and Big Daddy Kane. :laughing: 

The tint of blue on the unit I had was very deep; it'd work great for signaling, if anything just because it's not very common to see blue markers out there (just be careful not to be confused for a Law Enforcement unit). I'm not sure what the spectrum of these LED's are, but it worked fine to bring up fluorescent effects on some glo-rings and hi-viz yellow zipper pulls I have. 

As a final cautionary note, I get headaches when using blue LED's for some time (for reading at night, for example).


* Orange LED's: *
 (Owner: souptree - posted October 2007)

Here's souptree's original thread on this particular LED mod. Unfortunately, I had to change shooting locations and I was not able to properly reproduce the beamshots using the original camera settings. The first set of pictures was taken at 1/30 speed and 3.5 aperture. The second set was taken at 1/15 and 3.5. The first set most closely resembles what I my eyes perceived, but I'm also posting the second set for your reference. From left to right you have Nichia white-orange, Y/G-orange, and Nichia white-Y/G-orange:

 Exposure 1:









 Exposure 2:










First, let me address the difference in LED color between orange and red. The beam on the left here is the orange A2, and on the right is a red CMG Task light:





They say a pic usually speaks 1000 words, but not in this case. I could easily distiguish between both colors, but my camera was unable to capture the differences. I am not sure what the wavelengths of these 2 LED colors are. To my eyes, the CMG Task Light is a deep ruby red color, while the orange A2 is, well... orange! It's quite a beautiful and unique LED color.

I think red provides too much contrast between objects, and that was not the case while I was walking around with the orange LED's on. In other words, the depth perception provided by the orange LED's was better than that provided by the red LED I have. It almost reminded me of walking around with an amber LED.

This particular mod is fairly bright. I had enought light to navigate around the house and poke behind bushes outside. The orange color seemed a lot brighter than my Y/G A2, but dimmer than my white A2.


LED Color rendition:

I kept camera settings constant for all shots (except for the orange LED's), so you could also gauge relative brightness. For all LED colors, you'll see a zoom-in and a zoom-out shot (from about 2.5m from the wall). You'll noticed the Y/G shots are underexposed with the settings I used first. I went back and re-tock those pics - that's why there are 2 of pics for the Y/G at each distance (that way you can also gauge brightness relative to the other colors, as well as color rendition).

_Zoomed-in shots:

_From left to right - 
control shot (room's fluorescent lights on)
green, red, red THC3, stock Nichia, Y/G (underexposed), Y/G (better exposure), blue, orange:







 

 

 

 

 

 

 



_Zoomed-out shots:
_
The same line-up, same distance, but zoomed out shot of green, red, red THC3, stock Nichia, Y/G (underexposed), Y/G (better exposure), blue, orange:



 

 

 

 

 

 

 



The white Nichia (stock) takes the prize as the best color rendition (but read the comparison of white LED's below for the full story). Y/G would be next, then green. Red and blue give the worse color rendition of all; I can't decide which one is worse. Color rendition with the orange LED, as you can see, is not superb, but I believe it's slightly better than with red. 

Overall beam pattern:

I let the camera take over the exposure speed on this one. I kept aperture constant, but didn't bother to remember what it was.  I took the pics from about 5m away from a white wall. You can use the zoomed out color rendition shots to give you a better idea of what a flat object would look like from a distance.

Again, these are green, red, red THC3, stock Nichia, Y/G, blue:



 

 

 

 

 




I hope the Y/G shot clarifies what I was trying to describe before about beam quality. I'll let the rest of the pics speak for themselves. These are zoomed-out versions of some of the above pics (green, red THC3, Nichia, blue, and orange in the last line):



 

 

 





 

 



The orange beam was relatively uniform when compared to the Y/G, blue, and green units I tested before; it also seemed much broader than some of the other colors I've used. I hope the different exposures give you a better idea of what the beam pattern really looks like.


Overall brightness/beam smoothness rating & comments:

The brightest of all LED colors was green, followed by blue, white Nichia, red, orange, then Y/G. You can see that the Y/G is almost lost among the other A2's. I should reiterate that once your eyes are dark adapted, the Y/G LED's give out plenty of light to work with.

Notice how the patttern of the 3 red LED is somewhat overlapping in the previous pics? I'll speculate SF makes an effort to orient the LEDs so there is some collimation of the beam patterns. This, of course, depends on the LED color (some are inherently blotchier than others) and the A2 unit (my A2 seems to have better "centered" LEDs than rscanady's white unit, for example).

If the blotchyness of the LED beam bothers you, a little sanding can help smooth out the beam. This is how leukos' green LED A2 looks like after sanding, and here is Oregonshooter's thread has pics of sanded stock red LEDs, and red TCH3 mod. 


*Part II. Comparison of white LED A2 units:* 

_White LED units in this comparison:
_(owner names in parenthesis)
 stock Nichia LED (greenLED)
SMJLED LED (lasercrazy)
snow LED (bwaites, mod by Milkyspit)
THC3 LED (bwaites, mod by Milkyspit)
The line-up, from left to right-
THC3, snow, SMJLED, Nichia



 



I let the image to the left a little overexposed so you could see the difference in brightness better. The second pic was taken with the same settings as the shot above showing all color LEDs; it shows the beam edges much better. Again, the white-balance of my camera was a bit off; Nichia LEDs are the usual angry blue, but they came out as purplish in the pics. 

At one point while doing this review, I had 2 stock white A2's available. While there was a noticeable difference in the beam pattern of both; one of them was slightly less blue, and the LED's hotspots were more "focused" than the other. Other than this, they seemed equally bright and useful.

It was very hard for me to gauge differences in brightness between these, since I don't have a light meter, and beam patterns and tints are different. Judging by my eye-meter, though, I'd say the THC3 is about as bright as the SMJLED (maybe a bit dimmer), but this may be an effect of the warmer yellowish tint - a clear deviation from the blue tint of all the other LEDs.

The snow LEDs seemed brighter and the beam was much smoother than the stock LED's. One thing I've noticed with snow LEDs is that they are not "white" as people say. Instead, they have a rather large "hotspot" (a misnomer, as there isn't really a defined central "hot" spot) with a faint and even light-blue tint. The corona is not as yellow as in the Nichia LEDs. Overall, I think this gives the "whiter" appearance, but IMO, they still have a (faint) blue tint.

The overall winner in terms of apparent brightness and beam smoothness is the SMJLED. By far the brightest, smoothest, widest beam of all the white LED's I compared. A definite improvement in beam quality over the stock Nichias. Here's a picture for you to judge by yourself:





The snow LED has a similar smooth beam, but it has a slightly more concentrated hotspot than the SMJLED. Nichia has the tightest hotspot of all, with the angry blue we all love to hate. The THC3 beam is also fairly smooth.

If I *absolutely had* to mod my A2, it'd be with SMJLEDs. Those who like warmer tints, however, will love the white THC3 mod, which have a slightly yellowish tint to them, but matches the incandescent output nicely and you don't see the colored aura evident with other colored LED's (see below for pics of the aura).

I'll leave the A2 LED modding to Milkyspit and others who know their 5mm LED specs and have the ability to tweak the resistors for maximum LED life, etc. 


_Color rendition, close up -_
Control shot (room's fluorescent lights on)
THC3, snow, SMJLED, Nichia







 

 

 




_Color rendition, zoom out -_
THC3, snow, SMJLED, Nichia



 

 

 




Being white LEDs, this is almost a no brainer - the best LED for accurate color rendition is white, and I think all the lights I looked at do a good job at this. However, if I had to rank them, the SMJLED is the winner, followed by the snow LED (which are still, to my eyes, blueish), THC3 (with it's yellowish tint), and Nichia (points off for being angry blue). The zoomed-out pics give you an idea of what an object would look like from about 5m away. 


_Beam pattern -
_ THC3, snow, SMJLED, Nichia



 

 

 




The most concentrated beam pattern is that of the Nichia, followed by the snow LED, and then the TCH3 and SMJLED (both are about the same spread). Like I mentioned earlier, I think the slightly yellowish tint of the THC3's give the appearance of them being dimmer than the SMJLED, but I really can't tell which one would be brighter. Both are fairly free or artifacts and illuminate a wide area well.

If I were to get picky(-ier), I'd say the snow LED are an improvement over the Nichia because of their smoother beam and much lighter blue shade (almost undistinguishable). I should point out that the slightly yellowish tint of the THC3 LED's match the tint of the incandescent lamp, and there is not discernible effect on the incan beam (this is most apparent with the green and red LED's, and I mentioned the "aura" around the incan beam on the snow LED mod).

In real life, however, _none of these differences are likely to matter_. In a pinch I'd use any and all of these lights without a word of criticism. The ultimate choice falls onto the owner of a particular light. I can only hope this review helps people choose what they want their A2's to do for them. Me? I'm happy with the stock Nichia, thankyouverymuch. 


_Are new style A2's (round body) brighter than old style (square body?_

People have been asking me about brightness differences between "old" and "new" style A2's, but none of the white A2's I've seen have been different in terms of brightness. However, here's a thread by Illum_the_nation showing these differences may indeed be observable. The question was raised again by socom1970, and DM51 posted some pics comparing old vs new style A2's. DM51 also posed a plausible explanation for the observed variation:



> I suspect results will vary considerably from one individual light to another - possibly more than any variation there might be between old and new lights in general. This would depend on the uniformity of the LEDs themselves, and any variations in the manufacturing process.


I've asked SF several times if they've changed the LED's in the A2 and the answer has always been "no, we're using the same type of LED". This may or may not exclude changes in LED ranks, but I won't speculate on that.



*Part III. Comparison with other LED lights:*

A pic speaks a thousand words._

From left to right:_ 
L1p, L0p (couple of weeks of pocket use on the batteries), Mag Soli (33mcd + button cells mod), SF U2 (lowest level), CR2 Ion (on low), CR2 Ion (on high), custom CR2 by tvodrd (with MM+ RYOJ, on low and then high):



 

 

 

 

 

 

 





*Part IV. Incandescent beamshots (with a LED twist, of course):* 

As I've mentioned before in this review, the LEDs give the incandescent beam a distinct colored aura. I hope these beamshots show what I'm talking about. Whether they interfere at all with real use it's up for grabs (I don't think they do), but since this is a wall hunting review, might as well post the pics. 

For these pics, I used automatic aperture. The colors are not exactly what I saw on the wall because the white balance was on auto and whatnot, but you get to see the colored "aura", which is what I'm trying to document. 

The lineup:
Nichia, green , blue, red THC3 (with incan beam on regulation), red THC3 (with incan beam off regulation)



 

 

 

 

 

The color and beam characteristics of all incandescent lamps were pretty much identical (which, again, is not clearly shown on the above pics). I noticed a couple of particularities that I'd like to mention about the incandescent beams once you incorporate the LED tint:
The green LED A2 seemed dimmer than the white LED A2. I can't say whether this is because of the influence of the green LEDs projecting an odd tint onto the incandescent beam and shifting its color (and, thus, altering my perception of brightness), or an actual result of a dimmer lamp. I observed a similar effect with the red THC3 mod.
The snow LED A2 had a noticeable blueish aura surrounding the incan hotspot. I think this relates back to those LEDs having this really diffuse (wide, smooth area) light blue corona. I hypothesize the incan's hotspot is not large enough to cover the blueish remaining from the LEDs. _Sorry, no pic available, this comment was from the very first round of reviews and I didn't take pics of this._
I did not notice any blueish tint when comparing the stock white LED A2's, neither could I tell any difference between the beams of these two lamps.
The warmer tint of the white THC3 matches the tint of the incan bulb perfectly - look, Ma, no aura! 
I also compared the A2's incan against my E2e (with MN03). The A2's beam is tighter and much whiter than the MN03's. I still have to do further comparisons between these two lamps, and also against my Pila GL3 and GL4. :devil:


*Part V. Modifications:*

The most basic modification of the A2's LED's would be to sand the LED acrylic domes with fine-grit sandpaper to get rid of the beam artifacts. Examples of such mods are linked above for your reference. 

For more advanced LED transplants, I'll leave the A2 LED modding to Milkyspit and others who know their 5mm LED specs and have the ability to tweak the resistors for maximum LED life, offer different LED colors and specs, etc. An example of such modding is souptree's orange LED A2 (which has been reviewed here).

Most recently, fellow CPF'er Atomic Chicken has designed A2 LED replacement rings. There are 2 "flavors" (so far): "simple" replacement LED rings, and the more advanced, uC-controlled, multi-mode, multi-LED replacement rings. JS posted great a review with links to the original product development and sales pages in case you're interested.


*Part VI. Some afterthoughts and acknowledgements:*

Having used Black Diamond hybrid headlamp (first-gen Gemini) some time ago, so I wasn't too blown away by the A2 as a hybrid light concept. That's not to say I wasn't impressed by it, though! I think the LED's brightness is "just right" for nighttime work and navigation (I think some LED colors may actually be too bright). The incandescent beam is very bright, white, and smooth, and the LED's add to the versatility of this light. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it here: if there was a SF light I'd own several of, it'd be the A2.

I know outdoor shots would be nice to have, but I wasn't about to take people's lights for a stroll out in the park and risk damage or losing them. If want outdoor shots, see EV_007's thread for more pics of a green LED A2 in action (with incan and outdoor shots).
*Acknowledgements:*
Many thanks to rscanady, bwaites, bullzeyebill, oregonshooter, dragoman, lasercrazy, souptree and Stuart at SureFire for letting me borrow their precious lights and making this review possible. Oregonshooter and rscanady even sent their lights a couple of times so this review would be complete! I appreciate all these fine gentlemen trusting me with their lights and making this review possible. :bow: 

I'd also like to thank VWTim very much for helping me take the pics and sharing his thoughts. Carrot is responsible for me getting me hooked on wanting an A2, and for making me buy a special edition A2-BK-WH. It's all his fault! :nana:

:thanks: for reading! Please let me know what you think and if there are any thing I can clarify from my writing, forgot to include, or I got plain outright wrong.


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## carrot (May 29, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Nice comparison, greenLED!

Does the green LED one look as ringy as they say the colored LED A2's look? Or is it pretty smooth as-is?

Sorry for making you buy another light!  

(As my dad would say... "you need another light like you need another hole in the head." Well... my brain's been thinkin' of gettin' a sunroof...)


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## leukos (May 29, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Yes, the stock green LEDs have a terrible ringy beam, but nothing a little sanding can't fix: :naughty:


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## Somy Nex (May 29, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

nice review :thumbsup: 

a red LED A2 is on my list to get, but i've not been able to find the funds for one yet...

(btw, I think that A2-WH-BK might've been my shelf queen/spare unit before I sold it off to B737driver. i hope you treat my former baby well :mecry


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## rscanady (May 30, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

The green one is mine, and yes it is very ringy when wall hunting. It sort of reminds me a little bit of a biohazard pattern.

Thanks for the write up, nice to read.

Ryan


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## greenLED (May 30, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Biohazard pattern! That's what the beam looks like. You're absolutely right. Didn't really bug me when shining the light across the room. The ringyness on all the LED beams is more pronounced towards the outside, which end up being on your peripheral field of view once you start shining the light at a distance.


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## dragoman (May 31, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

My Yellow/Green LED A2 has the same ringy biohazard pattern......and in nuclear green!

dragoman


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## greenLED (May 31, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

dragoman, do you have any green LED light to compare the color rendition and depth perception against your yellow/green A2?


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## js (Jun 1, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

greenLED,

Thanks for this worthwhile contribution to the CPF A2 literature!


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## greenLED (Jun 2, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*



js said:


> Thanks for this worthwhile contribution to the CPF A2 literature!


 I appreciate your compliments, js. My comments are a mere drop in the bucket of your outstanding A2 treatise. :bow:


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## bwaites (Jun 3, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Nice job greenLED!

I really noticed the beam artifacts in the yellow/green when I had a chance to compare one with a stock white. That said, and after talking with js who had a chance to do some "real world" testing with the yellow/green, the yellow/green might be ideal for lowlight/night vision saving uses.

The biohazard pattern is a perfect description, BTW!!

Red always gives me depth perception problems, while true blue really messes with my eyes and almost hurts!

Bill


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## batman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

so if i was in the dark would the Yellow/Green LED of the A2 appear brighter than the red LED A2? According to the linked literature the foggy answer is yes but many people also say the yellow/green LED is too dang dim to be of use compared to the red. I can't decide which one to buy.


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## greenLED (Jun 9, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*



batman said:


> I can't decide which one to buy.


Buy the white one. It gives the best color rendition and is brighter. :devil:


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## seery (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Bill - I've been reading every link I come across regarding the A2 in red and yellow/green for best output and best retention of night adapted vision. Are there any links you could pass along that expand on what you and JS found? I thought red was the answer but seems yellow/green could be better. Thanks.



bwaites said:


> Nice job greenLED!
> 
> ...and after talking with js who had a chance to do some "real world" testing with the yellow/green, the yellow/green might be ideal for lowlight/night vision saving uses.
> 
> ...


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## dragoman (Jul 5, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

GreenLED - no I don't have any other green led lights to compare it to, although I am on the lookout for a green X5...... 

As far as retention of night vision, the Y/G LEDs do not affect my night vision at all. I do agree, based on what I've seen, that the Y/G ones are probably the dimmest LEDs of the bunch, but that doesn't bother me. They are still plenty bright to walk around a dark house with. No so much use outside though.

Color rendition - obviously the light itself tints things......I do have trouble regarding the true colors of things, but I think that would be true with any colored LED (don't have any)

Depth perception - not affected at all when I'm using the Y/G LEDs....

Hope I answered your questions....

dragoman


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## greenLED (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Dragoman, you should let me borrow your Y/G A2.
Looking for a red LED A2 also.


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## dragoman (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

will be sending it to you when I get my green tritium vials from the group buy for your Easter Egg mod....

U can play with it then....

dragoman


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## greenLED (Jul 26, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Suh-weeet!
:thanks:


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

My A2 beam with red leds running is very ringy, sort of like a bulls eye target. Center is solid red, next ring is dark, next ring is red, next dark, next red. My CMG Infinity with red led is beautiful, no artifacts, while the blue green led is ringy, ringy, ringy.

Bill


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## lasercrazy (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

I have an A2 that's been modded with the SMJleds laying around if you want one more to compare. PM me if interested.


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## greenLED (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

lasercrazy, that'd be really cool! Dragoman is sending his Y/G, I have a stock, you'd be sending your SMJLED...

If somebody else would be willing to let me borrow their A2's, it'd be great! What other LED colors are out there? Red, green, "snow" LED (mod), ...? We'd have to time it just right so that I have all lights at the same time. (and so I can be scared beyond measure to have one of these MIA in the mail...) :duck:

My old camera sucked at taking beamshots, but we have a new toy that I can set things to manual and take some beamshots and stuff.


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## lasercrazy (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

I'm pretty sure they have one with blue leds also.


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## greenLED (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Man, that'd be a lot of A2's lining up on my table.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Do you have an A2 with red leds? If not I will send you mine. Just know that my A2 has somewhat deminished light output (incan) that it had when I first got it, and lightmeter bounce tests show something like 15% reduction in overall light output. Not much. PM me.

Bill


----------



## greenLED (Jul 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Bullzeyebill :twothumbs and :thanks: (I still owe you a little something, don't think I've forgotten - haven't had much time for "real" modding these days)

Yup, I just checked, and the SF has the following LED colors (with the name of the owner who'd be willing to let me keep it for a few days to do a comparison):

red - Bullzeyebill
yellow/green - dragoman
white - greenLED
white w/SMJLED - lasercrazy
white w/snowLED - bwaites (+ another A2 LED mod)
green - rscanady
blue - SF (thanks Stuart!)


----------



## greenLED (Jul 28, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

anybody have an A2 with blue LEDs that be willing to let me borrow for a comparison?


----------



## SilverFox (Jul 29, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Hello GreenLED,

I was able to remove the artifacts from my Y/G A2 by putting a white plastic grocery bag over it. Nice smooth Y/G beam.

I have used my A2 in a variety of situations from camping and hiking to kayaking and think it very useful. The Y/G takes a moment or two to adjust to while reading, but it seems that I adjust to it rather quickly. 

I must admit that I prefer the Y/G over the blue/white, even though it is quite a bit dimmer...

Tom


----------



## greenLED (Jul 31, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

...artifacts... at what distance are you guys assessing these? Either I've become less picky about beams, or my A2 has a nicer beam (indeed it does, there's a single blue hotspot from the Nichias...). Anyway, if I shine my A2 across a room, the beam is no better (or worse) than the flood of an Inova X5.


Still looking for somebody who is willing to let me borrow their blue-LED A2!


----------



## greenLED (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Many thanks to [email protected] and the kind folks at SF, it sounds like I'll have a blue LED A2 to test as well.

I think I've sent everyone my addy (twice?). I'm going  here, sorry.

Thank you for making this possible. This comparison may even be an excuse for a get-together!


----------



## lasercrazy (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

I sent out my A2 a few days ago so you should get it soon.


----------



## greenLED (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Many :thanks: lasercrazy! 
The Y/G should be in the mail as well.
:twothumbs


----------



## lasercrazy (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Did you ever receive the blue a2 from surefire?


----------



## greenLED (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*



lasercrazy said:


> Did you ever receive the blue a2 from surefire?


Nope. Still waiting on it, though. I'm still waiting on bwaites white LED mods as well.

Sorry, guys, I've been working 'till 11pm lately and haven't had much time to take pics or write a review (or see my kids for that matter).

I have, however, slowly given the lights "the beauty treatment" as dragoman put it: cleaned all contacts and DeOxit/ProGolded contacts I could easily access (I did not do this with the tailcaps, as I don't want to take those apart), and put clean silicone lube on the o-rings and threads.

If I had to choose one for the "dirtiest A2" award, it'd be dragoman's - the tailcap had some really weird gray caked stuff on the contacts, and dry and gunked up lube on the threads.


----------



## dragoman (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

award? do I get a prize 

I use my A2 for work, and that means its seen some pretty bad places (power plants, it may surprise you, are not the cleanest places  )

Anxiously awaiting the comparison so I can get my A2 back 

dragoman


----------



## greenLED (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*



dragoman said:


> award? do I get a prize


If that trit of yours shows up... 
You said yours was pretty banged up, but there isn't much HA missing.

I'll work on the photos and make notes this week and return the lights by next Monday, whether I have all of them at the same time or not. Kinda defeats the purpose of a multi-way comparison, but I don't want to keep these lights any longer than necessary. Sorry it's taken too long.


----------



## dragoman (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Hasn't been too long......at least not yet 

Keep it as long as you need it, I'm curious about the blue one myself...

dragoman


----------



## greenLED (Aug 25, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

bwaites is sending a milkyspit-modded LED unit, with THC3 LED!! 
I think he's also sending his snow LED A2, so this is getting more interesting.


----------



## cue003 (Aug 25, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

I am very interested to see more on the THC3 LED.

Curtis


----------



## greenLED (Aug 25, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

The Google CPF search yielded a couple of interesting threads, but not a lot. If I got things straight: they're designed to be driven at 100ma, and are *bright*. 

No word on the blue LED A2 from SF.


----------



## marxs (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

i second that, id love to see shots of the THC3. by any chance would you know the color of the led he's sending?


----------



## greenLED (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

White, IIRC.


----------



## lasercrazy (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Hey green, what do you think of the tailstand ability on my A2?


----------



## greenLED (Aug 28, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*



lasercrazy said:


> Hey green, what do you think of the tailstand ability on my A2?


I have the same tailguard (from oregonshooter) on my L1. I think it's a great addition to the light. I also similar tailguards from nekomane, for my e2e.


----------



## greenLED (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Pics comparing LED colors, etc. are up - still working on it.


----------



## VWTim (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Hopefully Green can get all the photo's sorted. We sat in his office for a long time last night trying to figure out what the pictures were that he took. TOO many shots


----------



## greenLED (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Hey, we're on-line at the same time.

Many, many thanks for your help, VWTim!! It's loads of fun to catch up with you.
:twothumbs

I should mention - VWTim brought some "dim" hotwires last night... one of them was so pathetically dim, it lit up the room brighter than the ceiling lights!!


----------



## greenLED (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

OK, all pics are up.

More white LED units are on their way to me, and I'll update that next week when I have time.

Enjoy.


----------



## carrot (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

A fantastic comparison, greenLED!


----------



## lasercrazy (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Very nice.  Yes you can keep my A2 longer to compare it against bwaites mods.


----------



## marxs (Sep 3, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Sorry if I misunderstood but did you just post the pics or will be posting the pics when you have the time?  Oh and glad to see your still sticking around cpf!

:goodjob:



greenLED said:


> OK, all pics are up.


----------



## greenLED (Sep 3, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*



marxs said:


> Sorry if I misunderstood but did you just post the pics or will be posting the pics when you have the time?  Oh and glad to see your still sticking around cpf!
> 
> :goodjob:


Pics of white LED A2's are still pending - those I'll post when I get a chance to do that.

I still have some pending projects here that I need to finish (this review is one of those). You'll see me around, not as actively as before, though.


----------



## greenLED (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's 4-way comparison*

Ta-da! Finally done. All beamshots are posted, and white LED comparison is done. I'll send all remaining lights by tomorrow morning, well padded, with DC and insurance.


----------



## tsl (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's comparison of LED colors*



greenLED said:


> *Incandescent lamp comparison:*
> 
> The snow LED A2 had a noticeable blueish aura surrounding the incan hotspot. I think this relates back to those LEDs having this really diffuse (wide, smooth area) light blue corona. I hypothesize the incan's hotspot is not large enough to cover the blueish remaining from the LEDs ... I did not notice any blueish tint when comparing the stock white LED A2's, neither could I tell any difference between the beams of these two lamps.


 
First, greenLED, this is fantastic work. Thank you!!!

You mentioned in your original review about the effect of the snow LEDs on the incan beam. Did you notice any effects from the THC3 and SMJLED on the incan beam?


----------



## marxs (Sep 7, 2006)

great review! you :rock: greenie.

mark


----------



## greenLED (Sep 7, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's comparison of LED colors*



tsl said:


> You mentioned in your original review about the effect of the snow LEDs on the incan beam. Did you notice any effects from the THC3 and SMJLED on the incan beam?


Nope. I think the yellowish tint of the THC3's match the incan tint, so the blueish area (it's very light, nowhere near angry blue Nichia tint) I noticed on the _snow _LED - or, I wasn't looking close enough.



Marxs, I'm glad this is useful.


----------



## bwaites (Sep 7, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's comparison of LED colors*

WOW!!

A great review!!

This, combined with js review of the A2, is truly an OPUS MAGNUM of the A2!

The THC3's are only "yellowish" when compared with the blue tint that we have come to associate with "white" 5mm LED's. They are actually very close to a warm WO binned Luxeon!

I chose the THC3 LED's specifically because they are bright and come VERY close to matching the incan color. (At least as close as any 5mm LED I've found!)

My eyes, I am finding, are VERY sensitive to blue, and while some feel that XO binned LED's are the closest to white, I feel very differently. My white is a high temp incan, and the THC3's come close to that. 

I liked the Snow White LED's until I saw the THC3's. The Snow Whites are certainly less blue than stock, but the THC3's are so close to the incan that I couldn't be happier!

In the real world, it probably doesn't make much difference, but I like the contrast that comes with the warmer color temp. (No more of that "walking on the moon" feeling that comes from bluish LED's!)

The THC3's are very bright, and offer a very nicely diffused beam, ideal for how I use my A2.

Bill


----------



## lasercrazy (Sep 10, 2006)

I wonder if the blue a2 will ever show up? :lolsign: I can't wait to get my light back, I was starting to feel naked without it.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: A2: greenLED's comparison of LED colors*



bwaites said:


> (No more of that "walking on the moon" feeling that comes from bluish LED's!)
> 
> Bill



Hey! As an LED guy, I take exception to that remark! I'll bet the modder of your snow white A2 does, too! 

Oh wait, that's me! :laughing: 

(I did both the snow white and THC3 LEDectomies to bwaites' A2's, so guess I'm covered either way!) 

GreenLED, all ribbing of Bill aside, this is a terrific review you've put together, and one that hasn't seen much coverage here on CPF, at least not as compared with various other topics. Thanks for providing all with this service!
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


----------



## EV_007 (Sep 13, 2006)

:goodjob:
Wow, awesome review and excellent pics greenLED! Very thorough indeed.

Does the stock white LEDs outthrow the others?


----------



## leukos (Sep 13, 2006)

:goodjob: Nice addition to the A2 virtual library!


----------



## oregonshooter (Sep 15, 2006)

Too bad I didn't have mine done before the test.

GreenLED,
If you want to compare my RED THC3 mod this next weekend when I drive by let me know. If you can duplicate your test here, the viewers might like to see what it looks like, I know I would in comparison.

I just posted before and after shots here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1595228#post1595228


----------



## greenLED (Sep 15, 2006)

Oregonshooter: absolutely!! It'll be great to finally meet you. e-mail sent.
(rscanady, you coming too?)


I've added a couple of links to other A2 LED beamshots (leukos and oregonshooter's for now). If you have more of these, and/or comparisons against other lights, please post here and I'll continue to update this thread.

:thanks:


----------



## VWTim (Sep 16, 2006)

Keep me updated if you guys meet up. If you do Oregonshooter, bring the Mag85, I can charge it up for you.


----------



## oregonshooter (Sep 16, 2006)

I'll be dropping the light off Friday, we haven't made a time, so if you got time to scooter on down to green's part of town let's set a time for some coffee and beam shots (not Jim Beam though, I'm too old for that.  )

I'll PM greenLED for details and get back to ya.

PS. You owe me some charger links still!


----------



## VWTim (Sep 16, 2006)

Crap, sorry about those links, I totally forgot. As to his part of town, I think we're 2 miles? apart? Very close. Depending on his schedule the Beanery on Monroe (campus) is pretty close to everyone and his office. Keep me updated.


----------



## oregonshooter (Sep 16, 2006)

Oh, I thought he lived in Coburg. :duh: Beanery sounds good to me.


----------



## greenLED (Sep 22, 2006)

Pics and my impressions of oregonshooter's red THC3 mod are up. Thank you, OS, for letting me play with your light.


----------



## greenLED (Nov 10, 2006)

Added link to A2 LED colors poll.


----------



## greenLED (Nov 11, 2006)

Guess what?? 
 I got a blue LED A2 from SF!! 

Many :thanks: and :bow: to Stuart and SF for allowing this! I've sent a couple of PM's, and hopefully I can borrow a couple of the colored LED A2's again. I don't plan on re-doing the whole thing again, but having other colors for comparison would be nice.

Stay tuned.


----------



## oregonshooter (Nov 11, 2006)

You can have my THC3 light. I'm driving up there for Turkey day and the day after. let me Know


----------



## greenLED (Dec 18, 2006)

Welp, it only took 7 months to finish, but it's finally done!!

I just re-wrote the whole thing, incorporated notes on the blue LED unit I got from SF, and added more pics. Let me know what you think!


----------



## carrot (Dec 18, 2006)

So envious that you got to play with all those A2's at once. Great pictures and comparison, punk.


----------



## js (Dec 18, 2006)

greenLED,

Excellent thread. I have it in my subscriptions! Thanks so much! And, BTW, I can totally relate to the "Well, it only took 7 months" thing. LOL!


----------



## EV_007 (Dec 19, 2006)

Good stuff the GreenLED. 

Is the YG LEDs more of an amber color to the naked eye? I know my yellow LEDs do not show up well when I try to photograph them yet they appear brighter to the naked eye.

Damn that blue looks more "cool" than potentially useful for everyday uses, but appears very bright.


----------



## bwaites (Dec 19, 2006)

Very nice!!

Thanks for spending all this time to make it so good!

Bill


----------



## greenLED (Dec 19, 2006)

EV_007 said:


> Is the YG LEDs more of an amber color to the naked eye?
> 
> Damn that blue looks more "cool" than potentially useful for everyday uses, but appears very bright.


No amber tint that I can remember in the Y/G. It looked more like light greenish brown to me.

Yup, blue is bright. I remember reading somewhere that digicam's CCD's are more sensitive to blue, and that my explain why some of the pics show blue being even brighter. I haven't confirmed this, that's why I didn't mention it.


I very much appreciate the comments!


----------



## 65535 (Dec 30, 2006)

This is a very very nice shootout of the different A2 led colors. I think that red would be one of the mos ttruly usable lights for night time use, but there is reason to have white light as you probably want to see colors. I think I will play with my U2 for awhile before I invest in another light should be here wednesday.


----------



## DUQ (Apr 15, 2007)

So where does one get THC3 and snow LED's? The SMJLED's are easy to get from the Shoppe but I would like to pick up different LED's just incase I dont liek the results.


----------



## Minjin (Apr 15, 2007)

DUQ said:


> So where does one get THC3 and snow LED's? The SMJLED's are easy to get from the Shoppe but I would like to pick up different LED's just incase I dont liek the results.



Pick up some JELED 55ks. They are much cheaper and test out to be as good as, if not better than the Nichia CS's and SMJLEDs.


----------



## oregonshooter (Apr 15, 2007)

http://www.oregonshooter.com/?p=55

The upgrade cost $7.00 toatl, not sure how much cheaper ya need to go?


----------



## greenLED (May 7, 2007)

Stay tuned, orange LED's may be updated to the review "shortly" (as in, don't hold your breath, but it'll happen - whenever).


----------



## greenLED (May 8, 2007)

...and as if the announcement of orange LED's wasn't enough, js just posted a review of Atomic Chicken's "Aviatrix" mod (LED replacement rings for the A2 - either "dumb" ones, or uC-controlled with the option of having different color LED's on the same ring). 
:wow:


----------



## greenLED (May 14, 2007)

People have been asking me about brightness differences between "old" and "new" A2's, but none of the white A2's I've seen have been different. Here's a thread (with pics) showing differences may indeed be observable.


----------



## greenLED (Jun 29, 2007)

Quick update to add another thread discussing the possible changes in LED brightness between new and old-style A2's. I've started a new subheading under the White LED A2 pictures regarding this issue. Please check the OP for more details.


----------



## greenLED (Oct 16, 2007)

I'll be posting souptree's orange A2 LED mod, and PoliceScannerMan is sending his UV LED mod to add to this thread.

:thanks:


----------



## greenLED (Oct 16, 2007)

A little teaser pic:


----------



## greenLED (Oct 17, 2007)

Testing code:



 

 



















a2orangewallzoomoutsettpt7.jpg
a2orangewallzoomoutsettyb6.jpg
a2orangewallzoomoutsettjm1.jpg
a2orangecolorrendzoomindv3.jpg
a2orangevsnichiaexp2qf0.jpg
a2orangevsygexp2jp4.jpg
a2orangevsnichiavsygexpav6.jpg
a2orangecolorrendzoomouxh8.jpg
a2orangevsnichiaexp1kc0.jpg
a2orangevsygexp1ng3.jpg
a2orangevsnichiavsygexpag6.jpg


----------



## souptree (Oct 21, 2007)

Awesome job with the *Orange A2* addition! :bow:

Here's the link to my original thread on it. I totally agree with you, the effect of the orange is closer to that of amber than red to my brain.


----------



## js (Oct 23, 2007)

Thanks, greenLED. Great thread indeed!


----------



## greenLED (Oct 23, 2007)

This wouldn't've been possible without all the owners of those A2's trusting me with their babies.

Just yesterday I got PoliceScannerMan's UV LED mod, so that'll be up in a couple of days.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (Nov 7, 2007)




----------



## greenLED (Nov 7, 2007)

I have a bunch of pics waiting for me to sort through them. PM sent.


----------



## maxspeeds (Aug 3, 2008)

Bumping this thread up from the past. What is everyone experiences with their A2 LED colors? Now that the A2 has been around for a good 5 years, I'm sure there can be much discussion about different color uses and advantages/disadvantages in certain situations.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2008)

Good bump, this is one of my favorite 'blast from the past' threads and is still very much relevant... Greenie has compiled a real A2 treatise here!

Heck, recently got a hold of some THC3 white LEDs to have on hand for a few more A2 LEDectomies should anyone ever need one... seemed like cheap insurance along those lines. 

A reiterated thanks, GreenLED, for a great thread. :twothumbs


----------



## maxspeeds (Aug 3, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> A reiterated thanks, GreenLED, for a great thread. :twothumbs


 
I second that! This was a great thread and a combination of efforts from many people. Awesome pics and summaries, GreenLED! 

Milky, what has been your experience with colors other than white in the A2? I keep going back to souptree's thread on his orange A2 that you modded for him.


----------



## Patriot (Aug 3, 2008)

I bought my first white A2 after reading this thread and then graduating onto Js's A2 info. After using white, red, blue, and Y/G, white is still my favorite color, with red as my second choice. I found the others to be not very useful for my purposes. 

Thanks for bumping this thread.


----------



## maxspeeds (Aug 3, 2008)

Patriot, how did you find the yellow-green leds for night vision use? Did you find them too dim when used outdoors? 

Also, are you using the stock white nichias, or have you tried other type of white 5mm leds?


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2008)

maxspeeds said:


> Milky, what has been your experience with colors other than white in the A2? I keep going back to souptree's thread on his orange A2 that you modded for him.




Max, most of the upgrades I've done for people have been white... along those lines, I like the THC3 for its warmer, very even floody white beam... it's not as jarring going from incandescent to LED as the cooler white LEDs are. Personally, I like to drive the THC3 a little less hard, too, as I find it doesn't hurt overall visibility of objects much and it tends both to extend runtime and to hurt dark-adapted vision less. For colors, I do like the orange for the same reasons souptree has outlined in the past, among these the way it seems to be so easy on the eyes, and yet does a good job (better than red IMHO) with visibility. I've never had the pleasure of an orange A2 for my own use, but I have put the same orange LEDs in some of my other lights and like that particular color very much for low-light use. I've just never been much of a fan of red in those applications, but like orange much better.

Yellow-green is okay I guess, green is interesting though I don't find much use for it... blue is a little too weird to my eyes for long-duration use... cyan is a nice color but almost impossible to get in a really good blue-green blend, usually tends to be closer to an emerald green... amber tends to be more of a yellow so I don't generally go for that, like orange better in place of an amber... pure yellow, oddly enough, I do find useful, but it's not easy to find a high output yellow LED.

The problem with most of the colored LEDs I've encountered is they typically will show a ring artifact or worse... there just doesn't seem to be the even flood of a really good white LED... and since most colored LEDs seem to be a little output challenged to begin with, diffusion is typically not a very desirable option, lest what little output is present gets diminished even further! oo:


----------



## Patriot (Aug 4, 2008)

maxspeeds said:


> Patriot, how did you find the yellow-green leds for night vision use? Did you find them too dim when used outdoors?
> 
> Also, are you using the stock white nichias, or have you tried other type of white 5mm leds?





I just felt that they were to dim. They were great for when reading something on your lap but walking around in the desert was difficult.

I'm just using the stock Nichias. I know they could be better but I haven't had to urge to have them upgraded yet.


----------



## RWT1405 (Aug 5, 2008)

I find that the Y/G is THE perfect color for the A2 (for me anyway). I will admit to not much caring for my A2's, as I find myself much more of an LED kinda' guy, but the Y/G A2 is the one exception to that. 

I have little use for a light that only gets 50 min. (or so) on a "set" of batts., but on the Y/G LED's I find it is an almost perfect "night" use light (with the incan. available if something goes "bump" in the night). 

I also have a white LED A2, but as far as I'm concerned it does NOTHING better then most of my other LED's and most things (such as run time, over all light output, etc.) WORSE. 

Having said all that, I actually have considered getting a second Y/G A2. 
I'm not sure any of this makes sense. LOL!

I think I need to send my white A2 to Milky to have him "fix" it for me, I've always wanted to have one of his lights! 

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## Carpenter (Aug 5, 2008)

milkyspit said:


> Good bump, this is one of my favorite 'blast from the past' threads and is still very much relevant... Greenie has compiled a real A2 treatise here!
> 
> Heck, recently got a hold of some THC3 white LEDs to have on hand for a few more A2 LEDectomies should anyone ever need one... seemed like cheap insurance along those lines.
> 
> A reiterated thanks, GreenLED, for a great thread. :twothumbs


 
I too love this thread everytime it gets bumped. +1 on the thanks GreenLED.

In fact, if I remember right the THC3 white one that you see pictured is now in my possession. I love it. [Milky Plug] It is really whiter than the normal angry blue LED's [/Milky Plug]


----------



## JNewell (Aug 5, 2008)

Interesting feedback on the YG A2. Do you, or anyone else here, have any ability to compare the Mil-Spec Kroma YG to the A2 YG? I wonder if they're the same emitters? The Kroma is also very dim. Great for close work at night, but not really useful for moving around. (That is not a complaint about the YG Kroma, just an observation.)



Patriot36 said:


> I just felt that they were to dim. They were great for when reading something on your lap but walking around in the desert was difficult.
> 
> I'm just using the stock Nichias. I know they could be better but I haven't had to urge to have them upgraded yet.


----------



## greenLED (Aug 5, 2008)

My pleasure, guys. It's always nice to see this thread is still being used and useful for people. 

JNewell, the K2M's Y/G LED's are 3mm units and are considerably dimmer than the 5mm LED's in the A2. I'm sorry I can't give you a light meter reading but I did the comparison against a couple of K2M's a while back. I should've taken pics... 

I agree that the Y/G LEDs are a lot dimmer than any other color LED. This is especially noticeable when other LED colors are being used at the same time. I've been at the range at night and my Y/G A2 looks really dim compared to other people's red or blue LED lights (Photons). The advantage is that I have a lot better depth perception and color rendition with the Y/G's. When shone by itself and my eyes are dark adapted (night fire range conditions) the Y/G is plenty of light for me, but I tend to think my eyes are sensitive to too much light. 

Something I've always wondered... are the Y/G LEDs dim (inherently low output by design/construction) or is it our eyes that perceive them as such?


----------



## JNewell (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks, GreenLED...

I don't think they're necessarily inherently harder to see. On the contrary, based on the info posted a FLR.com on color, I would have thought our eyes were *more* sensitive to the YG, but I could certainly be wrong.

You mention superior color rendition, and I strongly agree. That is, to me, the whole reason for the YG on the K2MS, and the reason I have no complaints about those being useful only close-up.

Thanks for the 3mm/5mm info. Didn't know or had forgotten.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 5, 2008)

Meant to post this chart earlier... it appears in the Ryer handbook on measurement of light. I post it here with no explanation whatsoever, leaving things open to individual interpretation. (Anyway, I am hardly the last word on what it all means!) Thought it might be of some interest.


----------



## greenLED (Aug 5, 2008)

That's a cool graph, Scott. Let me add a little something:


milkyspit said:


>









*Please note the wavelength scale is reversed compared to the graph Scott posted.*

I *think*this means we'd see "better" (perceive more light?) at night with turquoise color. 

There's a really good thread on scotopic and photopic stuff somewhere in the archives.


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## carrot (Aug 6, 2008)

Our eyes are more sensitive to green light than others (some say twice as much), so yes, turquoise would make sense.


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## greenLED (Aug 6, 2008)

carrot said:


> Our eyes are more sensitive to green light than others (some say twice as much), so yes, turquoise would make sense.


Remind me then why the fuss over red for night vision?


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## prof (Aug 6, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Remind me then why the fuss over red for night vision?



As I recall from reading , red light does not harm night vision--you can use red light without your eyes becoming adapted to brighter light...something like that.


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## carrot (Aug 6, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Remind me then why the fuss over red for night vision?


Something about not ruining your eye's night adaptation so you can see without a light. But considering all/most of us banish the night with our flashlights I don't see how not ruining night adaptation is a concern for a large portion of the populace, besides astronomers, etc.

Then again, I find that the lower power red LED's are absolutely worthless for navigation as you get a terrible sense of depth perception and relatively poor contrast.


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## greenLED (Aug 6, 2008)

carrot said:


> ...I find that the lower power red LED's are absolutely worthless for navigation as you get a terrible sense of depth perception and relatively poor contrast.


Totally agree. Might as well use Y/G - low brightness, but good contrast, depth perception, and better color rendition than other LED colors. 

(can you tell I *really* like Y/G?)


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## JNewell (Aug 6, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Totally agree. Might as well use Y/G - low brightness, but good contrast, depth perception, and better color rendition than other LED colors.
> 
> (can you tell I *really* like Y/G?)


 
I think that's generally correct, but there are those cases when not ruining night adaptation and having limited color perception is better than the reverse. The YG doesn't preserve night vision, but it's very useful when you need reasonably good color perception and white isn't being used.


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## Boy SureFire (Nov 12, 2009)

BUMP!!!

Ok I'm sold on the A2, so sold in fact that I'm getting one in blue(checking doorstep for package.... darn you USPS man drive faster). 1+ to the OP for his hard work, and too all that supplied an A2 for testing, and props too SF for making such a d### fine light. lovecpf (my wallet/ex wife on the other hand aren't so happy w/you all)


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