# Need advice for my first ican mod in a D-Maglite



## rayman (Nov 19, 2008)

Just bought a KIU bi-pin socket for a D-Maglite and now it's the hard part to decide what to do with it. I was searching the forum all day yesterday but when a Maglite was the only ican flashlight you ever had it's kind of hard to be in the know regarding ican flashlights . I'm searching a mod with about 1500lumens for a 2-4D Maglite. Which mod can you recommend me?

What do you think about this mod:
I use a 4D Maglite with a Osram 64623 bulb and a 12AA>4D battery holder with 10 Eneloops and 2 dummy cells. I know I have to change out the reflector and the lens. I also know that I have to wait for some time after I charged the cells that I don't instaflash the bulb. The runtime with this setup would be a little bit over 10min. One good think about the 64625 bulb is also that I can easiely get it in Germany, the WA bulbs are pretty hard to get in Germany . So what do you think about this?

rayman


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## william lafferty (Nov 19, 2008)

Hello Rayman,

Hopefully some people more knowledgeable than I will give you some suggestions, but in the meantime, maybe I can help a little. First, I suggest that you study the Destructive Incan Tests that Lux Luthor has run. They are here:https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/179748&page=8. This will tell you how many volts and amps each bulb will take and how many lumens it will produce at various voltages.

The Osram 64623 is a powerful bulb, producing some 6,000 lumens at 16 volts and drawing 10.5 amps (see Lux's charts). I do not know what amperage AA Eneloops (or any AA cells) are capable of producing, but I would be surprised if they could handle anything like 10.5 amps. I realize that Eneloop chemistry is different from li ion, but the rule in li-ion is that if you are getting less than 30 minutes runtime, you are in dangerous territory. I suspect there is a similar rule for the Eneloops and other AA cells.

In general, you have to be careful to match both the amperage and voltage required by the bulb you have chosen with the amperage and voltage that can be safely produced by the batteries you are using. 

I am sure there are many good possibilities for your setup, but one that I have used with some success is the ROP low bulb. As you can see from Lux Luthor's chart, if you power it with 9.6 volts, (8 x Eneloops at 1.2 volts per cell = 9.6 volts) you will only be drawing 2.3 amps and producing about 1500 lumens. 

If your Mag is bored out to accept the wide battery holders made by Five Mega, you can use an 8 cell holder in a 2D mag (2 stacks of 4 cells each)(8 cells x 1.2 volts = 9.6 volts).

If your Mag is not bored out and you want to use 8 cells, you would have to use a 3D mag with 3 stacks of 3 cells each (including 1 dummy).

If you are using AA cells that produce a voltage of 1.5 instead of 1.2, you will have to adjust the number of cells accordingly.

As for purchasing the bulbs, some are available here on the forum and others can be mail ordered over the net.

Good luck,

bill


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## mdocod (Nov 19, 2008)

Eneloops can handle some pretty decent current, SilverFox has tested them up to 10 amps, and they handled themselves surprisingly well for consumer grade cells, however, there are much better options for NIMH cells if you are planning on a build that is going to be up over ~6 amps. Eneloops are good candidates for the more mainstream conservative output mods, like the ROP low/high, 5761, 1185, etc, stuff in the ~20-50 watt range depending on host size. In a 4D mag, with 12 eneloops, up to 75W would be pretty reasonable. For 100W and higher modifications in the 2-4D mag size, I would suggest either using Elite 1700 or Titanium Power Max 1800 cells. For anything that is going to be in the 10+A range, you'd probably be best off having a welded and shrink-wrapped pack put together by LuxLuthor to minimize resistance. 

For a middle of the road mod, you might look at build options around the 64610 bulb. It's a 12V 50W bulb. It can probably handle 11 AA Eneloops just fine. 12 eneloops might be pushing it, but if you didn't do too many resistance fixes it would probably work fine. Such a build would easily achieve 1500 true torch lumens, and the runtime wouldn't be too terrible, around 20 minutes. Current is only around 5 amps, which is fine for eneloops.


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## rayman (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks for the information.

I think I will first try it with the Osram 64610 bulb in a 4D Maglite with a 12AA>4D battery holder that I can later upgrade to a Osram 64625 bulb. And for now just change out the reflector and the lens, put in the KIU socket and mod the tailcape spring for less resistance.

So how much current can the stock switch of the D-Maglite bear?

@ mdocod
Is it possible to power the Osram 64625 with your 12AA>4D battery holder with 10 of those Elite 1700 and two dummy cells (with the Ican D Driver from AW, modded tailcape spring and changed out reflector and lens)?

rayman


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## mdocod (Nov 20, 2008)

rayman said:


> @ mdocod
> Is it possible to power the Osram 64625 with your 12AA>4D battery holder with 10 of those Elite 1700 and two dummy cells?
> 
> rayman



My adapter only works with button top cells, so it would probably have to be the PowerMax cells with button tops. I don't think the Elite cells are available with button tops....


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## rayman (Nov 23, 2008)

I have a question. What is the difference between the Osram 64610 50W and the Osram 64440 IRC 50W?
And what does the IRC mean?

Thanks
rayman


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## 2xTrinity (Nov 23, 2008)

rayman said:


> I have a question. What is the difference between the Osram 64610 50W and the Osram 64440 IRC 50W?
> And what does the IRC mean?
> 
> Thanks
> rayman


IRC means infrared refleftive coating. These are potentially somewhat more efficient as a lot of the infrared light releseased as wasted energy is reflected back to re-heat the filament. As far as I know however, this is meant as a "long life" bulb, so you would need to overdrive it a lot more to make it suitable for flashlight use. The 64610 is driven hard even at the nominal 12V.


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## rayman (Nov 24, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> IRC means infrared refleftive coating. These are potentially somewhat more efficient as a lot of the infrared light releseased as wasted energy is reflected back to re-heat the filament. As far as I know however, this is meant as a "long life" bulb, so you would need to overdrive it a lot more to make it suitable for flashlight use. The 64610 is driven hard even at the nominal 12V.



For me the 64440 driven at 14.4V sounds great. After LuxLuthors's charts the measured current is about 4.47A, the measured lumens are about 2000lumens, the measured temperature is about 105°F and the runtime is little bit over 20min. Sounds great for a start into the hotwire-world :naughty:.

rayman


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## mdocod (Nov 24, 2008)

That would work, leaving a lot on the table with that bulb though, I guess the advantage being that the bulb should last hundreds of hours at that drive level, being IRC it'll still be reasonably efficient. Keep in mind that the color temp of that build won't be as impressive as options that push a bulb harder. 

Eric


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## rayman (Feb 3, 2010)

After some time I want to try it again. Just ordered two Osram 64610. I want to use it in a 3D Maglite with 3x 32650 protected from KD and the KIU socket. Will this work?

rayman


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## alpg88 (Feb 3, 2010)

a simple first mod.
12aa holder, $42 from fm
mr16 ceramic socket $3-$5 from hardware stores.
20-50w mr16 spot bulb about $5.
glass lens about $6.

remove stock switch, cut off cam, solder mr 16 socket to switch contacts, polarity not important.
use all 12 cells, at 14.4 bulb will be a bit overdriven, but brighter.


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## rayman (Feb 7, 2010)

Already bought two Osram 64610. Build it together today and I have to say that I really like it. The only small problem is that when I first use it I have to rapidly press the button until it starts flashing and then I can click the button fully. Is this because of the self-induction of the bulb? And what can I do against it?

rayman


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## hoongern (Feb 8, 2010)

rayman said:


> Already bought two Osram 64610. Build it together today and I have to say that I really like it. The only small problem is that when I first use it I have to rapidly press the button until it starts flashing and then I can click the button fully. Is this because of the self-induction of the bulb? And what can I do against it?
> 
> rayman



Others are more experienced than I am and may be able to answer better, but are you running protected Li-Ion cells? It could be that you're at their overdischarge limit and double/triple/whatever-clicking them to bypass their protection circuit.... which I understand is potentially damaging to the cells in the long run. If you're not on protected cells, then I don't know...

Edit: just saw that you were talking about the KD 32650 cells. Their specs say 16amps. So I'm not sure what's going on. Time for someone else to chip in


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## rayman (Feb 8, 2010)

Right now I tested them with 3x AW 18650 protected but only for about 10 seconds.

rayman


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## Databyter (Feb 8, 2010)

Anything past 3-4 amps is pushing it for enelope construction and chemistry.

This according to the Chart at Sanyo.

I'm sure you can run alot more through them, especially intermitantly, but why and for how long, and will they still not self discharge fast after being bbq'd like that.

It's a bad choice for anything pulling more than 3-4 amps imho.

By the way the Lumens numbers I've heard quoted to the OP in this thread sound like Bulb lumens, not torch output from a mag conversion, subtract about 25% from those numbers and you will be more ballpark about how many lumens your Torch will put out.

If your build is 12 nimh aa's in a tube with a 623 bulb thats gonna be about 14 volts which is going to give you about 5000 lumens at the bulb and somewhere about 1/4 less (3750ish) than that out the front.

Adding one more battery will get you 15.6 Volts and 6850 Lumens at the bulb, alot more, and most folks say that the out the front with a regular mag reflector is about 4400 Lumens. You could use a 16 battery pack with 3 dummy cells to get that or make a custom pack with a button shaped cell at the bottom ( Thats what I need to learn how to do).

The 1500 quoted for ROP low is obviously not out the window Lumens, that would make it brighter than my Mag85 and it isn't.

By the way, a Mag 85 is my recommendation for you.

All you need for a really easy build is a Fivemega (or others) 9AA to 3D battery holder (40ish bucks) and a different reflector and lens, and your done. This is the 1185 bulb and will give you about 1100 Lumens if you keep resistance low. It's also very reliable, I haven't changed a bulb yet (probably just a lucky bulb).

Cheers:twothumbs


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