# E2E and a 17670?



## BigBluefish (Jun 7, 2009)

Since getting my E1E, I seem to have caught the incan bug, and have really been wanting to get its bigger brother, the E2E. Not that the E2E, being, IMHO, the best-looking light SureFire makes, next to the C2 HA, has anything to do with it...

But I've never liked the idea of using 2 cell CR123a lights. Yeah, everyone does, and they hardly ever go , but I carry my light in my front jeans pocket, which would be a really bad place to have a small explosion, if you know what I mean. 

Then I realized that I couuld use a single protected 17670 cell in the E2E. Which means I could run an LF HO-E1R, or an EO-E1R lamp. I might be wrong, but I actually feel better about carefully handling 1 rechargeable cell then dealing with 2 primary cells, and the slight danger or reverse charging. 

Does anyone have experience with the E2E on the 17670 using either of these two LF lamps? 

Is the HO-E1R brighter than the Surefire MNO2 lamp, and is the runtime substantially shorter? LF rates the HO lamp at 110 minutes on a 17670, SF rates the MN02 at something like 2.25 hours on 2 CR123a cells.

Is the EO-E1R about the same, or brighter than the SF MNO3 with a comparable runtime? LF rates the EO at 70 minutes, SF rates the MNO3 at 1.25 hours. 

It would seem to me that this would be a good combo, the E2E on a 17670. If you've used it, what are your thoughts?


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## Owen (Jun 7, 2009)

I have in the past, and may again. Recently got another E2e, and was surprised by how much I've enjoyed carrying it after becoming accustomed to newer, "better" lights. Guess I forgot just how much I like the E series. I'm burning up all my off-brand 123s that are a few years old right now, but have decided to use rechargeables and keep it incan rather than using the body and tail for another modded LED head like I'd planned. 
I've had both the EO-E1R and EO-E2R before, and am still debating which I'll use. Probably the EO-E2R since I only have a couple of 17670s left, but 6 unprotected MP R123s, and 8 protected AW R123s(my older protected R123s won't run this lamp, IIRC). 
That's what I ended up using when I had them before, too. It's a lot brighter than the EO-E1R. Also like that you can use a SC3 with R123s and a spare, rather than having to switch to primaries and a MN02/3 if it comes to that. edit: Come to think of it, I suppose you could use the SC3 with EO-E1R, three R123s and a dummy cell.

I'm still a bit tempted by the longer runtime of the EO-E1R on a 17670, though, and may try both again in case my perspective has changed. Plus it would be cool to be able to use the same lamp on a 1 cell body w/R123 if I want to. 

Here's EV 007's beamshot thread that's linked in his sig line:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202652
Has beamshots of the EO-1R and EO-2R right below the MN02 and MN03.


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## lctorana (Jun 7, 2009)

E2e with a 17670?

That is a *boring *question.

:thumbsup:


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## da.gee (Jun 7, 2009)

You can use a 17670 in the E2E *IF* if you are lucky enough that the cell will fit in the body. This is not usually the case.


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## BigBluefish (Jun 7, 2009)

lctorana said:


> E2e with a 17670?
> 
> That is a *boring *question.
> 
> :thumbsup:


 
Ugh...the E series bodies are too tight for a protected 17670????  I guess every 2 x CR123a light doesn't accept this cell, eh? Now I seem to remember that they don't fit every light. I don't pay much attention to 2 x CR123a lights, so maybe that's why I missed it. 

Dang. So it looks like I'm going to have to run two CR123a's in my E2E, or stick to my E1E.


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## Illum (Jun 7, 2009)

BigBluefish said:


> Ugh...the E series bodies are too tight for a protected 17670????  I guess every 2 x CR123a light doesn't accept this cell, eh? Now I seem to remember that they don't fit every light. I don't pay much attention to 2 x CR123a lights, so maybe that's why I missed it.
> 
> Dang. So it looks like I'm going to have to run two CR123a's in my E2E, or stick to my E1E.



A little sandpaper werks wonders


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## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Jun 7, 2009)

You could try posting a WTB in the marketplace for an E2E which will fit a 17670. They are difficult to come across, especially in the newer lights whose battery tubes narrow towards the tail. I used to own one and wish I'd held on to it. 

There are some e-series compatible tubes by custom builders that will fit 17670s and even 18650s in some cases, if you are prepared to alter the E2E's style. Mirage_Man did a run of 18650 e-series tubes a while back, which you could probably find with a WTB. Aleph tubes might be another option if someone can confirm that they fit 17670s.


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## mdocod (Jun 8, 2009)

If safety is one of the driving reasons for avoiding the 2xCR123 concept, have you considered running a pair of IMR16340s. It's a safe chemistry and would not only be safe and rechargeable, but also offer more options for output.

HO-E2R
EO-E2R
IMR-E2

----

If you can fine an E2E that fits the 17670 cell size comfortably then that will offer configurations with more impressive runtime. And if you wanted a brighter option for the 17670 you might be able to find an fm bi-pin adapter for it in BST and run the strion bulb which runs ~1.66A, a little more aggressive than the EO-E1R.


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## BigBluefish (Jun 8, 2009)

mdocod said:


> If safety is one of the driving reasons for avoiding the 2xCR123 concept, have you considered running a pair of IMR16340s. It's a safe chemistry and would not only be safe and rechargeable, but also offer more options for output.
> 
> HO-E2R
> EO-E2R
> ...


 
I'm not familair with the IMR cells, but from what little I've come across reading others' posts and the info on the LF website, it seems these cells are even more dangerous, or at least, require more knowledge to safely handle, than CR123as or RCRs. Not being comfortable runing pairs of primaries, I don't think I'd want to get into pairs of rechargeables, of any sort. 

But maybe I just need to learn more.


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## RichS (Jun 8, 2009)

I asked the same question in this post:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/212308

I returned an E2e to see if I would get lucky - no chance. The current bodies taper at the end to ensure nothing but a CR123 will fit. But, it was most definitely worth fixing so I could use an E2e FM Strion kit. It's as bright as a 2xCR123 P60, and almost the same beam pattern. However, the E2e/Strion combo one is tiny and runs on 1 rechargeable 17670!  Not to mention that replacement bulbs cost about $4.

Here's the information I posted in the link above about how I got it to fit:
___________________________

I finally got it to fit!! I had the same experience as you mudman cj. I used a dowell with sandpaper taped on it, and sanded and sanded and sanded.....after about 25 minutes I realized it wasn't going to happen anytime soon. So....

I got out my Dremmel, and used one of the round sanding bits. It wouldn't fit in from the tailcap side, so I dropped it down through the top of the battery tube rod-first, then connected the rod of the sanding bit to the dremmel. Done in a few seconds... I wish I had though of that first.  I thought of using the Dremmel to sand, but I knew the sanding bit didn't have a long enough rod to reach the end of the battery tube.

Definitely a little unexpected work - but well worth it! After all, what would keep me busy with this hobby without a little modding now and then?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 8, 2009)

BigBluefish said:


> Since getting my E1E, I seem to have caught the incan bug, and have really been wanting to get its bigger brother, the E2E. Not that the E2E, being, IMHO, the best-looking light SureFire makes, next to the C2 HA, has anything to do with it...
> 
> But I've never liked the idea of using 2 cell CR123a lights. Yeah, everyone does, and they hardly ever go , but I carry my light in my front jeans pocket, which would be a really bad place to have a small explosion, if you know what I mean.
> 
> ...


Read this post: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2972436&postcount=3


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 8, 2009)

BigBluefish said:


> Ugh...the E series bodies are too tight for a protected 17670????  I guess every 2 x CR123a light doesn't accept this cell, eh? Now I seem to remember that they don't fit every light. I don't pay much attention to 2 x CR123a lights, so maybe that's why I missed it.
> 
> Dang. So it looks like I'm going to have to run two CR123a's in my E2E, or stick to my E1E.


Get AW black label 17670s (other brands are way too thick), remove the label/stick/plastic wrap and maybe you'll need some sand paper job and you're good to go. My E2e accepts all my AW 17670, without modding, yours might be different though, good luck.


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## RichS (Jun 8, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Get AW black label 17670s (other brands are way too thick), remove the label/stick/plastic wrap and maybe you'll need some sand paper job and you're good to go. My E2e accepts all my AW 17670, without modding, yours might be different though, good luck.


 
Just as an fyi, I was also using an AW black label 17670. I took off the label per the advice and it didn't help in the slightest. I didn't really want to take off the black plastic wrap on the battery though. And from my (and other's) experience, it was a lot of sanding, not a little. I finally gave up on that and used the Dremmel which worked like a charm.

Just trying to save someone else a headache...


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## BigBluefish (Jun 8, 2009)

I noticed that there is a "Satin Gray" E2E, which I presume has Type II anodizing rather than HA anodizing. It is a bit less expensive, and seems to have a different cosmetic style on the head. Is this an older E2E model, and more likely to take a 17670 cell without modification?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 8, 2009)

RichS said:


> Just as an fyi, I was also using an AW black label 17670. I took off the label per the advice and it didn't help in the slightest. I didn't really want to take off the black plastic wrap on the battery though. And from my (and other's) experience, it was a lot of sanding, not a little. I finally gave up on that and used the Dremmel which worked like a charm.
> 
> Just trying to save someone else a headache...


Like I said, not all E-Series body tubes are equal.


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## RichS (Jun 8, 2009)

BigBluefish said:


> I noticed that there is a "Satin Gray" E2E, which I presume has Type II anodizing rather than HA anodizing. It is a bit less expensive, and seems to have a different cosmetic style on the head. Is this an older E2E model, and more likely to take a 17670 cell without modification?


The Satin Grey model is a current model, and is available on SureFire's website. I believe the only difference is the finish (Type II instead of HA).


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## labrat (Jun 8, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Get AW black label 17670s (other brands are way too thick), remove the label/stick/*plastic wrap* and maybe you'll need some sand paper job and you're good to go. My E2e accepts all my AW 17670, without modding, yours might be different though, good luck.



If the cells are protected ones, how do you deal with the exposed protection circuitry after the black plastic wrapping is removed?
And if the cell is not protected ones, how do you turn the light off with the cell inside?
Without the black plastic wrapping, the cell's outer metal casing is exposed, yes?
And this is the negative terminal of the cell? 
How do you think the switch in the tailcap work, if the negative terminal of the cell is already connected to the inside of the battery tube of the light?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 8, 2009)

labrat said:


> If the cells are protected ones, how do you deal with the exposed protection circuitry after the black plastic wrapping is removed?
> And if the cell is not protected ones, how do you turn the light off with the cell inside?
> Without the black plastic wrapping, the cell's outer metal casing is exposed, yes?
> And this is the negative terminal of the cell?
> How do you think the switch in the tailcap work, if the negative terminal of the cell is already connected to the inside of the battery tube of the light?


I don't know, I've never needed to mod anything in order to use 17670's in my E-series. People around here have been doing that for quite a long time, though.


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## Owen (Jun 8, 2009)

I believe he's saying there's an exterior label/wrap that can be removed. 
I'm not a fan of that method myself. I'd be much more comfortable sanding, or have the body bored to fit than start fooling with the batteries.
The new E2L I recently got...I don't see a 17mm cell fitting in there regardless of what you strip off of it, so it's getting a boring job done along with its head mod.


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## labrat (Jun 8, 2009)

Owen said:


> *I believe he's saying there's an exterior label/wrap that can be removed. *



I have never seen cells with more than one layer of protective wrapping, please direct me to some evidence showing there are!
The label, yes, that is only glued on the outside of the wrapping.


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## labrat (Jun 8, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I don't know, I've never needed to mod anything in order to use 17670's in my E-series. People around here have been doing that for quite a long time, though.



I really doubt anyone have modded the cells by unwrapping them and using them in a metal battery tube flashlight!
And if you don't know, how can you advice such a directly harmful and dangerous action?


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## BigBluefish (Jun 8, 2009)

BigBluefish said:


> I'm not familair with the IMR cells, but from what little I've come across reading others' posts and the info on the LF website, it seems these cells are even more dangerous, or at least, require more knowledge to safely handle, than CR123as or RCRs. Not being comfortable runing pairs of primaries, I don't think I'd want to get into pairs of rechargeables, of any sort.
> 
> But maybe I just need to learn more.


 
Well, I spent some time reading about the IMR cells, and they actually look pretty interesting. Seems the only issue is the higher current, which, if you don't short the things, doesn't seem to pose much of a safety threat. Since I keep my cells either in proper storage boxes or spares carriers if they aren't in a light, I don't see this as much of an issue for me.


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## mdocod (Jun 8, 2009)

AW has a sticker on top of the shrink wrap that is purely cosmetic. It can be removed. 

Don't remove the shrink-wrap from the cell. 

-----------

BigBlueFish,

The most dangerous lithium chemistry cells commonly found in flashlights, as evidenced by their reputation for exploding, especially in 2+ cell configurations where the cells are mis-matched, are CR123 primary cells. 

Protected Lithium Cobalt rechargeable has an over-all much better looking track record compared with CR123s. There is no real significantly greater danger using multiple LiCo cells (series/parallel whichever) provided they are decent quality cells. The protection circuit will prevent a reverse charge condition from happening. The Danger with LiCo cells is predominantly during charging, and is really only present if you are dealing with abused or neglected cells. Honestly, at this point, I'm more worried about the lousy quality of the chargers available posing a threat with these cells than the cells themselves... 

Lithium Manganese Oxide (IMR) rechargeable cells, are inherently much safer because, even if something does go catastrophically wrong, the chemistry does not fuel it's own oxygen during a burn, and the off-gassing from a burn is less toxic. (usually they just "pop" and get hot when things go bad) also- they should be much more tolerant to abuse (over-charge, over-discharge, high current etc) without significantly increasing the risk of an event... Long term, the odds of having an IMR cell fail in a dangerous manner is lower than LiCo, and significantly lower than lithium primary. They are much more like NIMH cells as far as their safety is concerned...

Another benefit is that most folks have reported that their AW IMR16340s are fitting fine in those "tight" applications like the SF A2 and E series bodies where other cells do not. AW does have a small little round "AW" sticker on the cell that can be removed to free up an additional fraction of a millimeter. 

-Eric


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## Kestrel (Jun 9, 2009)

Thanks for the info, Eric. I really appreciate your continuing efforts to inform in such a clear manner, and I'm sure many others do too.:thumbsup:


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## BigBluefish (Jun 9, 2009)

I'll second Kestrel's thanks, Eric. Your post has cleared up a few issues for me.


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## Sgt. LED (Jun 9, 2009)

If you ask around there are still some old fully round E series bodies around that take 17670 cells just fine. Clipless, 2 bands of knurling on the body.

I have one and they drop right in. Plus there are the E series 18650 5Mega bodies too.


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## BigBluefish (Jun 10, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> If you ask around there are still some old fully round E series bodies around that take 17670 cells just fine. Clipless, 2 bands of knurling on the body.
> 
> I have one and they drop right in. Plus there are the E series 18650 5Mega bodies too.


 
Hmmm. An 18650 would probably work nicely with one of those LF E0-E1R lamps. High output AND runtime. :thumbsup:

The E2E is looking better all the time.


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## BigBluefish (Jun 16, 2009)

BigBluefish said:


> Since getting my E1E, I seem to have caught the incan bug, and have really been wanting to get its bigger brother, the E2E. Not that the E2E, being, IMHO, the best-looking light SureFire makes, next to the C2 HA, has anything to do with it...


 
I think I'm going incan/SureFire crazy. 

I just bought an E2E in Satin Gray.


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## lctorana (Jun 17, 2009)

And I just bought a Winelight II. Might just be the most beautiful torch I've ever beheld.


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## BigBluefish (Jun 17, 2009)

lctorana said:


> And I just bought a Winelight II. Might just be the most beautiful torch I've ever beheld.


 
Is that a new release, or was this an older light?


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## Illum (Jun 17, 2009)

BigBluefish said:


> Is that a new release, or was this an older light?




Winelights date back as early as 2003
Winelights [it comes as a set of E2e/E1e] are the more common of surefires limited runs the forum has received. Its basically the same as the E2e/E1e with the exception of a maroon colored coat.

Its actually quite cheap compared to the E2e/E1e in black, which was relatively cheap compared to the E2e-CJ [jungle camo] and the Red E2e
Supposedly too there was a batch of 6P winelights...but I failed to find anything constructive on that by searching

check out these threads for reference
*Surefire Winelight History*
*SureFire Winelight*
*Surefire E2e Wine Light.*
*Surefire making wine light again?*
*Wine Light?*
*SF Wine Light*
*Surefire E1W and E2W-BY Winelights: How Many Were Made?*
*surefire winelight with display*


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