# Pimp your Apex (Cree XP-G mod)



## Szemhazai (Apr 11, 2010)

What do you need ? :huh:

Princeton Tec Apex of course .






Cree XP-G emitter on small mcpcb – you can think of it as a emitter, You will use it the same way here.





It's not ideal, but it's good enough :thumbsup:





Some thermal adhesive i.e. Arctic Alumina or other glue - I'm using 3M 467MP 0,05mm adhesive tape, some tin, soldering iron and screwdriver .

Remove the two bolts on the top and carefully remove plastic cover – do not try open the head, there is still one more screw.





Remove the last screw :





Now, you are in , open the head and remove the collimator lens. 





Desolder the wires from the emitter :




Yes, I’ve already removed the thermal control diode between RT1 & RT2 pads – you don’t have to do it, but don’t cry if you break it . 

Move the driver up, and remove old emitter, clean up the surface and glue there a new emitter in the center. You may use bigger mcpcb, but you will have to cut some plastic and will lost positioning pins for the collimator lens.





Put, the driver back and solder the wires, be careful to leave enough space for the collimator lens. 




Screw everything together and her you have 250+ lumen Cree XP-G based Princeton Tec Apex :thumbsup:.

Luxeon III - low / high









Cree XP-G R4 low/high *6200K*










Outdoor :
Luxeon III - low / high









once dry, once wet :/

Cree XP-G R4 low/high *6200K*


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## Yucca Patrol (Apr 11, 2010)

Great write-up and what an amazing way to beef up the Apex!

I did the old P4 Mod and thought that was great at the time, but this blows that mod away! Well done!


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## Szemhazai (Apr 11, 2010)

And it may be a bit better than this... I get Cree XP-G R4 in 5000K so called outdoor neutral.

5000K vs 6200K


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## kevinm (Apr 11, 2010)

Very nice! Where did you get those leds on tiny boards?

Kevin


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## Szemhazai (Apr 12, 2010)

We, have our supplier in Wroclaw/Poland but you can get these boards and some leds from Led-Tech.de :candle:

Micro PCB for Cree XP-E in Frame






http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Powe...B-for-Cree-XP-E-in-Frame-LT-1440_106_111.html


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## Monocrom (Apr 12, 2010)

That is a sweet upgrade. :twothumbs


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## NoFair (Apr 12, 2010)

Great thread:thumbsup:

I think raising the emitter gives a tighter beam if wanted, but the one in the pics looks great. 

I used a xp-e on a 2mm thick pcb and got a tighter beam with a smaller spot. It isn't quite as smooth though. 

Sverre


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## Gonzo (Apr 12, 2010)

Those Crees are tiny. That got me thinking... would it be possible to run 4 of them in place of the 4 5mm led's? What is the minimum voltage/amperage required to run the cree?


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## dom (Apr 13, 2010)

Great mod and superb pictures/instructions.

Hi Gonzo - the XP-G's should work fine but would probably be too floody and you'd probably have to chop out some plastic from the body 

Cheers
Dom


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## Avatar28 (Apr 13, 2010)

Any idea what your light output might be with that? I am seriously considering doing this once I get my light back from Princeton Tec. I already did the P4 mod, though, so I'm not sure I would see a lot of benefit from this. I also replaced the stock collimator optic with a textured reflector. There is almost no hot spot or throw now but a ton of flood.


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## Offroad'Bent (Apr 14, 2010)

Great write-up! Szem, would you be interested in selling an XP-G already attached to a board? It looks like one board will do a lot of emitters.



Szemhazai said:


> We, have our supplier in Wroclaw/Poland but you can get these boards and some leds from Led-Tech.de :candle:
> 
> Micro PCB for Cree XP-E in Frame
> 
> ...


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## Ace12 (Apr 14, 2010)

Avatar28 said:


> Any idea what your light output might be with that? I am seriously considering doing this once I get my light back from Princeton Tec. I already did the P4 mod, though, so I'm not sure I would see a lot of benefit from this. I also replaced the stock collimator optic with a textured reflector. There is almost no hot spot or throw now but a ton of flood.


 

You got any beamshots of that OP reflector?


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## Avatar28 (Apr 14, 2010)

Um, maybe. let me search for some of my old posts.


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## Avatar28 (Apr 14, 2010)

Ace12 said:


> You got any beamshots of that OP reflector?



Ah, found it. Only have the one and it's not very good but you can get some idea at least. As I noted, the slight hot spot in the picture was virtually unnoticeable in real life. It actually worked rather well for caving to be quite honest. I had a pair of L2D rebels strapped to my helment for greater throw if I should need it.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2215636&postcount=33


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## Ace12 (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks. Im thinking about buying an apex pro and modding the led to an XP-G and also changing out the 5mm led with something more nutral. I need a good work light with plenty of useable flood and also throw when I need it.


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## Jap1987 (Jun 15, 2010)

What did you use to attach the Cree to the PCB?


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## skuhr (Jun 18, 2010)

Is there anyone available who can do this mod for me? I'm getting a new warranty Apex and can pay a reasonable fee. I did the P4 mod once, but this seems out of my league. I'm in the U.S. Or if there are more detailed instruction on the part needed that would help. Thanks everyone!


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## Offroad'Bent (Sep 15, 2010)

Offroad'Bent said:


> Great write-up! Szem, would you be interested in selling an XP-G already attached to a board? It looks like one board will do a lot of emitters.



None of us got any answers about this mod. 
-How did you attach the emitter to the PCB? (Thermal epoxy?)
-Would you sell a single board segment as the whole board's 1.9 Euros + shipping and customs
-Would a small piece of aluminum or copper work as a spacer instead of the hard-to-find PCB, or does it need to be electrically insulated?

I found this XP-G on eBay. I assume it needs to be mounted to the micro PCB.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Cree-XP-G-R5-Coo...012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad52d3b8c

Anyone interested in selling off individual segments of one of the micro PCB boards, or know a more reasonable source to get one?


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## NoFair (Sep 15, 2010)

I got my XP-G from Cutter: http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XPG

If you buy XP-Gs on this pcb: *Cutter-XPG10SRO* then it is the correct height, but the diameter is 2mm too big. 

If you file or grind it down to 8mm diameter it fits perfectly and focuses well. I swapped out the xp-e in mine for a xp-g because the xp-e beam was a bit tight. 

Huge increase in brightness and Cutter stocks neutral whites up to the R4 bin in brightness. *(**XPGWHT-01-5B1-R4-0-01 Neutral) *

Hope this helps a bit. 

Sverre


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## Offroad'Bent (Sep 15, 2010)

Excellent! Thanks a lot Sverre. Are the R5s brighter in the different bins than the R4s?

There's a 1B0 R5, and a 1C0 R5, as well as the neutral and cool blue R4s.



NoFair said:


> I got my XP-G from Cutter: http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XPG
> 
> If you buy XP-Gs on this pcb: *Cutter-XPG10SRO* then it is the correct height, but the diameter is 2mm too big.
> 
> ...


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## peteybaby (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm another one who previously did the SSC P4 mod and loved the results. I think I'm going to give this XP-G mod a try. It'll prolong the life of the Apex, which I like in every way except for the relatively old LED in it, and...

... the stock 5mm LEDs. Has anybody replaced those with less-blue and brighter ones?


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## Szemhazai (Sep 16, 2010)

*peteybaby*, I replaced them by Nichia NSPW500GS-K1 but there was no distinct improvement.


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## NoFair (Sep 16, 2010)

Offroad'Bent said:


> Excellent! Thanks a lot Sverre. Are the R5s brighter in the different bins than the R4s?
> 
> There's a 1B0 R5, and a 1C0 R5, as well as the neutral and cool blue R4s.



R5s are a bit brighter, but I strongly prefer the neutral tint. 

Sverre


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## Offroad'Bent (Sep 16, 2010)

NoFair said:


> R5s are a bit brighter, but I strongly prefer the neutral tint.
> 
> Sverre



OK, Ordered one of each to upgrade both my Seoul P4 Apex lights.


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## peteybaby (Sep 16, 2010)

To those of you who have already done the XP-G mod, and those of you who are about to, which thermal compound did/will you use?


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## NoFair (Sep 16, 2010)

peteybaby said:


> To those of you who have already done the XP-G mod, and those of you who are about to, which thermal compound did/will you use?



I used thermal paste since I like to swap mine. Thermal epoxy can be a pita to remove. 

Sverre


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## etc (Sep 16, 2010)

I had a regular 3W one and the P4 modded one and they both broke, the screws that is. I am sending them both back to be replaced. The unit is very fragile, better not drop it.


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## NoFair (Sep 17, 2010)

etc said:


> I had a regular 3W one and the P4 modded one and they both broke, the screws that is. I am sending them both back to be replaced. The unit is very fragile, better not drop it.



I think the early units had overtightened screws, I have a black early one that is cracked around the screws. My newer ones look fine.

Anybody have an e-mail address for PT that they actually answer? :shrug:

Since mine are bought in the US the Norwegian distributor isn't handling warranty issues. 

Sverre


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## vtunderground (Sep 17, 2010)

NoFair said:


> Anybody have an e-mail address for PT that they actually answer? :shrug:



Unfortunately, I don't think that exists. Calling them is the only thing that's ever worked for me.


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## 21164913north (Sep 24, 2010)

i'd also like to know if anyone would be interested in modding an apex and for around how much materials included?


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## Offroad'Bent (Oct 8, 2010)

Offroad'Bent said:


> OK, Ordered one of each to upgrade both my Seoul P4 Apex lights.



OK, got the parts yesterday and did the mod. It was harder than the first one, as trimming down the 10mm aluminum board to 8mm diameter without damaging the emitter was a bit tricky, and the solder pads are smaller on the xp-g. I also had to file down the base of the stock optic a little to close the case.

Now the test- the light is far brighter than the originally pimped Apex with the P4, and I like the hotspot better too. The P4 was a lot brighter than the stock Luxeon 3, so this is 2 big steps beyond that.


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## peteybaby (Oct 8, 2010)

Offroad'Bent said:


> OK, got the parts yesterday and did the mod. It was harder than the first one, as trimming down the 10mm aluminum board to 8mm diameter without damaging the emitter was a bit tricky, and the solder pads are smaller on the xp-g. I also had to file down the base of the stock optic a little to close the case.
> 
> Now the test- the light is far brighter than the originally pimped Apex with the P4, and I like the hotspot better too. The P4 was a lot brighter than the stock Luxeon 3, so this is 2 big steps beyond that.



I just did my mod yesterday too. I agree--it was tough to trim the board, and tough to do all the detail work. My eyes aren't so great, which made it worse. Even my soldering iron, which has a small tip, wasn't small enough, but I had to use it anyway. I accidentally touched the soldering iron tip to the emitter dome at one point, and it "stuck" there momentarily before I could shake it off. I have a little dark spot on there now unfortunately. 

I didn't file down the optic to make it fit; instead, I scraped material off the solder joints to try to flatten them out, and then basically jammed the optic and housing together. I'd say I would have to file down the optic by just a tiny bit to get it to fit properly. I was hesitant to do so though, because I was afraid of wrecking the optical properties of it.

But now, having reassembled the Apex, I get a very ringy beam. I'm sure it was a lot smoother before. Offroad'Bent, do you think that the ringiness is due to the tiny bit that the optic is raised off the board by the solder joints (maybe a quarter of a millimetre)? How is your beam now after you filed the optic down?

I chose a warm white emitter, and it's actually warmer than I expected it to be. I still like it, but the contrast between the centre LED and the four side LEDs is stark.


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## Offroad'Bent (Oct 8, 2010)

peteybaby said:


> I didn't file down the optic to make it fit; instead, I scraped material off the solder joints to try to flatten them out, and then basically jammed the optic and housing together. I'd say I would have to file down the optic by just a tiny bit to get it to fit properly. I was hesitant to do so though, because I was afraid of wrecking the optical properties of it.
> 
> But now, having reassembled the Apex, I get a very ringy beam. I'm sure it was a lot smoother before. Offroad'Bent, do you think that the ringiness is due to the tiny bit that the optic is raised off the board by the solder joints (maybe a quarter of a millimetre)? How is your beam now after you filed the optic down?



My beam seems fine. The hotspot's tighter than it was with the P4, but there's still some spill. Not very ringy- I think my emitter might fit better than yours after I rounded it off to 8mm. 

I only filed the outer edges of my optic- the holes still fit the pins on the holder, so it's in the original position, just needed room to clear the wires mounted to the front of the emitter.
Next time I'll take the light to work and do the soldering under my operating microscope. Seriously.


I have to say this mod brings the Apex up to about 3X the brightness of the original 70 lumen version. I have another P4-pimped Apex with a broken hinge I will send in for repair or replacement, then re-pimp it again with an XP-G too.


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## peteybaby (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks, O'Bent. It sounds like I did exactly the same as you, except that I didn't file down my optic... but I just did it now, and same result: ringy beam. It might be because I damaged the XP-G dome a bit with my soldering iron. Oh well, at least my Apex is ready to be upgraded with the next big thing in LEDs.


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## Offroad'Bent (Oct 10, 2010)

peteybaby said:


> Thanks, O'Bent. It sounds like I did exactly the same as you, except that I didn't file down my optic... but I just did it now, and same result: ringy beam. It might be because I damaged the XP-G dome a bit with my soldering iron. Oh well, at least my Apex is ready to be upgraded with the next big thing in LEDs.



I took a better look at the beam against a white wall.
There is a central hotspot, a halo around it that's somewhat bright and useful for looking at trails, etc. There's also a small dark ring around the halo and a white band around that. This may be what you call "Ringy" but I hadn't really noticed it in use, just in testing.

Still *very* happy with the mod compared with my P4-modded apex.
I'm going to send the old one in for replacement as it has a bad hinge, and once it returns I'll mod it too, but under my work scope.


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## NoFair (Oct 11, 2010)

Congrats with a successful mod.

Did you use a neutral or cool white xp-g? 

Sverre


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## Offroad'Bent (Oct 11, 2010)

NoFair said:


> Congrats with a successful mod.
> 
> Did you use a neutral or cool white xp-g?
> 
> Sverre



I got one of each. This one's a cool white R5, which looks fine, but the next one will be a neutral R4.


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## NoFair (Oct 11, 2010)

Offroad'Bent said:


> I got one of each. This one's a cool white R5, which looks fine, but the next one will be a neutral R4.



I think you will find it even better 

I've tried both and the small increase in brightness isn't worth the difference in color when in the forest. The R5 might have an edge while skiing, might have to give it a go this winter


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## peteybaby (Oct 13, 2010)

Here is my ringy beam:






http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5078908868/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5078908868/
And just for your viewing pleasure, here's a shot of a warm-white MC-E compared to a cool white MC-E. The ww is in an Ultrafire P60 host, while the cw is in an MTE M3-2.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5078304689/




White balance was set to Daylight for all pictures.

(I can't figure out how to get the pictures to embed in this message)


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## NoFair (Oct 13, 2010)

No rings like that with mine (Lux3 optic) and XP-G. I do have a slightly uneven center, but that isn't visible in use. Nice even spill and good transition from spot to spill.

Sverre


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## Sarratt (Oct 13, 2010)

I really wish I could do this mod.

With the 3 times brightness increase what do you think your runtimes are like Offroad'Bent ?

I'm tempted to go out and buy a soldering kit (kidding)


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## Szemhazai (Oct 13, 2010)

*Sarratt*, the runtimes stays the same - this is fully regulated lamp - the currents doesn't change :huh:


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