# Wolf Eyes Rattlesnake 150 or 168 ?



## Optik49 (Jul 11, 2007)

What's the difference in the Wolf Eyes Rattlesnake M90-13V-150 and the Wolf Eyes Rattlesnake M90-13V-168R? I understand the 168R is longer because the batteries are longer. So does that mean longer runtime? Anyone have experience with both? Thoughts?

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## Glen C (Jul 11, 2007)

Hi Optik, 

The difference is the batteries, the 150A batteries are 1400mah meaning you have 4200mah available, the 168A batteries are 2200mah meaning 6600mah available. That translates into longer runtime and probably a stronger beam for longer on the 168A version compared to the 150A, after what would be the half way point on the 150A.


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## Optik49 (Jul 11, 2007)

Thanks Glen. I guess I was looking at it correctly. 
That should also be 3 123’s to 4 123’s correct?


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## Glen C (Jul 11, 2007)

Optik49 said:


> Thanks Glen. I guess I was looking at it correctly.
> That should also be 3 123’s to 4 123’s correct?


 
No. The 150A battery is 1.5 x CR123 in length, so 3 would equal 4.5 X CR123 in length.

The 168A battery is 2 x CR123 in length, so 3 would equal 6 x CR123 in length, but the starting voltage would be 18 volts.

So short answer, no direct primary substitutes.


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## Norm (Jul 12, 2007)

Get the 168A version and put a Lumens Factory EO-13 in it for 700 bulb Lumens and decent runtime. Like the one in my avatar.
Norm


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## Chawarito (Jul 12, 2007)

Glen C said:


> Hi Optik,
> 
> The difference is the batteries, the 150A batteries are 1400mah meaning you have 4200mah available, the 168A batteries are 2200mah meaning 6600mah available. That translates into longer runtime and probably a stronger beam for longer on the 168A version compared to the 150A, after what would be the half way point on the 150A.


 

actually you really dont just add the amperage hours together when you use them in a series. so in real terms you will get 13v in both configurations but in the 168A you will have 2.2ah or 2200mah. the 150A you will get 1.4ah or 1400 mah. The only time you will add the Amp. hours is when you use batteries in parallel. it this case you are enlarging the capacity of the battery but the voltage will remain the same

Series:
Voltage is added 
amp. hours/capacity remains the same

Parallel:
Voltage will remain the same 
amp. hours/capasity is added

many battery packs such as laptop batteries use both of these to create a battery with a higher voltage and a larger capacity at the same time.




As for the rattlesnake 13v... i can safely say that the 150A version is already pretty long and hard to opperate overhead while switching it on and off as needed. i would assume that the 168A would be even harder. if you are not planning on using the light in its momentary function, the 168A may be a choice. though if you do plan to use the momentary function of this light, you may want to consier the 150A.


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## Fusion_m8 (Jul 12, 2007)

I got the M90-13v rechargeable kit for my M100X from GlenC, its got the 3xLRB150A running the standard 12v bulb and it just RIPS:devil: through the darkness like an angel-of-light!!! 

I'm told the 168A kit will make the flashlight longer and heavier than the 150A kit, but will hold its brightness longer.


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## mdocod (Jul 12, 2007)

was going to respond with the same thing chawarito already did. 
so... save myself the trouble and 
X2


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## Glen C (Jul 12, 2007)

Sorry Chawarito and Mdocod, you guys are 100% right, my post is confusing. I thought I wrote 'of available capacity' which still would have been confusing, but I didn't. I shouldn't answer posts and phone calls at the same time


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jul 12, 2007)

Fusion_m8 said:


> I got the M90-13v rechargeable kit for my M100X from GlenC, its got the 3xLRB150A running the standard 12v bulb and it just RIPS:devil: through the darkness like an angel-of-light!!!


I can vouch for this. 150A is the largest cell you can use with the Wolf Eyes 12V; when I tried the 12V on three 168A cells, the lamp burned out after 2 hours.


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## Optik49 (Jul 13, 2007)

Glen C said:


> No. The 150A battery is 1.5 x CR123 in length, so 3 would equal 4.5 X CR123 in length.
> 
> The 168A battery is 2 x CR123 in length, so 3 would equal 6 x CR123 in length, but the starting voltage would be 18 volts.
> 
> So short answer, no direct primary substitutes.


 
 That’s disappointing I would have liked a primary substitute option, like I have with the Raider. Basically I want something I can charge and keep in my bag on the seat next to me. I had an Ultra Stinger and for size (still having some defensive properties) and lumens, I don’t know if there is anything better.


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## FlashKat (Jul 13, 2007)

I am totally confused on what you are trying to buy and achieve. 
1- The Rattlesnake 150 rechargeable set-up will work with the Wolf Eyes 12V lamp assembly.
2- If you want to be able to run with primaries just remove the extender and run with 4 CR123 batteries.

Another option:
1- Rattlesnake with 168 rechargeable set-up running with a Lumens Factory EO-13.
2- Remove the 168 extender and you can run 4 CR123 batteries still having bright output.

I have the 168 set-up and I like the feel of it because of the weight and length makes it a solid flashlight for defense.


Optik49 said:


> That’s disappointing I would have liked a primary substitute option, like I have with the Raider. Basically I want something I can charge and keep in my bag on the seat next to me. I had an Ultra Stinger and for size (still having some defensive properties) and lumens, I don’t know if there is anything better.


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## Optik49 (Jul 14, 2007)

FlashKat,

 You weren’t confused you knocked it out of the park. That is exactly what I was talking about. I think the 168 is the way to go. Taking off the extender is something I did not think of. Still shorter than the US but I think it should be a lot brighter. Hopefully I will see a big difference from my Raider but I don’t think it will be that big.


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## FlashKat (Jul 14, 2007)

Remember if you go with the 168 rechargeable set-up, then you will have to run with a Lumens Factory EO-13 lamp assembly. It will not be as bright with 4 CR123 batteries, but still bright. It does measure 11 inches long with the 168 set-up. Yes it will be noticibly brighter than your Raider.
P.S. Don't forget to get your discount with [email protected]


Optik49 said:


> FlashKat,
> 
> You weren’t confused you knocked it out of the park. That is exactly what I was talking about. I think the 168 is the way to go. Taking off the extender is something I did not think of. Still shorter than the US but I think it should be a lot brighter. Hopefully I will see a big difference from my Raider but I don’t think it will be that big.


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## DM51 (Jul 14, 2007)

You don't need the 168 extender / 3 x 18650 option for the EO-13. I run an EO-13 in my Rattlesnake with 3 x 18500s and the short (150) extender. It is a much handier size than the long version. I tried the 168 extender and 3 x 18650s, but there was no noticeable difference in brightness. 

I now use the long 168 extender on a Sniper 6AX with 2 x 18650s and a P91 (idea copied from Paul_in_Maryland - thanks Paul, this is an excellent combo).


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## Kentuckian (Jul 14, 2007)

My plan is to get an M90X with a HO-12 550 lumen lamp and the 13v 168 kit with the EO-13 700 lumen lamp. That way I can use the rech set up but have the 123 set up for extended power outages or extended trips afield. The two set ups back eachother up nicely.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jul 14, 2007)

FlashKat said:


> Remember if you go with the 168 rechargeable set-up, then you will have to run with a Lumens Factory EO-13 lamp assembly.


Wolf-Eyes' own 13V D36 lamp will work just fine. Don't be seduced by the numbers; if you find flood more useful than throw, stick with the Wolf Eyes.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jul 14, 2007)

Kentuckian said:


> My plan is to get an M90X with a HO-12 550 lumen lamp and the 13v 168 kit with the EO-13 700 lumen lamp.


Most of us have hot-flashed a lower-voltage lamp by playing flashlight Lego. I suggest that you use Wolf Eyes' 12V lamp assembly for your 12V setup. Two reasons: First, it throws like the ****ens while still offering considerable spill. Second, its reflector looks and feels different from the Lumens Factory's, so you'll be less likely to confuse the two lamps when playing Lego.


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## Optik49 (Jul 14, 2007)

So If I find it to long I can just change the lamp, extender, batteries and charger. I think that might be just as easy. 
 I ordered the 13V I don’t know if I made the right decision. Oh ya I had to see the 700 lumen lamp so I got that also.


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## FlashKat (Jul 14, 2007)

DM51 & Paul In Maryland both pointed out very important combinations I forgot to mention. Thanks guys for reminding me if these combos. 
I think these are combos that we all own, but we all have our own personal favorite .
I have the Raider DX & M90 Rattlesnake which they both take D36 lamp assemblies, so I always play lego and try the different combinations of lamps and batteries for fun.

1- M90 Rattlesnake is running 168 set-up with Lumens Factory EO-13.
2- Raider DX has 2-150 extenders to run with 3-150 batteries and and either a 12V Wolf Eyes, or the 170 lumen Cree. I only have the extenders for more runtime, since I already own plenty of small lights.

You will find that Wolf Eyes are great, because there are no limitations on what combination can be done!!!!!!!


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## Kentuckian (Jul 14, 2007)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Most of us have hot-flashed a lower-voltage lamp by playing flashlight Lego. I suggest that you use Wolf Eyes' 12V lamp assembly for your 12V setup. Two reasons: First, it throws like the ****ens while still offering considerable spill. Second, its reflector looks and feels different from the Lumens Factory's, so you'll be less likely to confuse the two lamps when playing Lego.


Actually my intention is to get a nice aluminum case with foam inside to make a case for the 123 parts and leave them there for emergency situations. I'm going to play with the 13v set up since it's rechargeable and with the EO-13v lamp it's 700 lumens. I play with my lights way to much to be messing around with the 123 set up. I just want it in case of a situation where I can't use or don't have electricity to use the rech set up.
Like this:
The lamp the M90X comes with, the HO-12 and a small supply(20) of Titanium 123's will be stored in the case for emergency situations.
The 13v kit with EO-13 lamp will be for regular use.

I never was into legos.:thumbsup:


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## DM51 (Jul 14, 2007)

FlashKat said:


> Raider DX has 2-150 extenders to run with 3-150 batteries


Unless I’m not thinking straight (which is perfectly possible, lol) I don't see how this could work. 2 short extenders = 1 cell length, ie you would be turning the Raider from a 3-cell into a 4-cell light. However 3 x 18500 / WE-150 batts are 4.5 cells long – you would need 3 short extenders, not 2. 

And AFAIK you can't use 2 or more WE extenders together anyway as you don't get a proper contact.


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## FlashKat (Jul 14, 2007)

I am using the Ultrafire unprotected 18500 batteries which may be a little shorter, but even if was a little longer the compressing of the lamp assembly spring makes up for that extra length.
I also read that you could not get contact with using 2 cell extenders together, but when I tried them together it worked without the copper ring that is suggested.



DM51 said:


> Unless I’m not thinking straight (which is perfectly possible, lol) I don't see how this could work. 2 short extenders = 1 cell length, ie you would be turning the Raider from a 3-cell into a 4-cell light. However 3 x 18500 / WE-150 batts are 4.5 cells long – you would need 3 short extenders, not 2.
> 
> And AFAIK you can't use 2 or more WE extenders together anyway as you don't get a proper contact.


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## tomcat017 (Jul 17, 2007)

Can anybody confirm that there is no brightness advantage to using the 3X 168 setup as opposed to the 3X 150 setup? As far as runtime, how significant is the difference on the EO-13? I was planning on getting the 168 version, but the shorter length and the ability to run the WE 12V bulb are tempting. Thanks everyone!!


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## DM51 (Jul 17, 2007)

In theory there should be a slight difference in brightness, because although the voltage of the 18650s will sag under the load of the EO-13, this will not be as much as with the 18500s. However I doubt this difference would be noticeable even in a side-by-side comparison. 

You would get an extra ~50% (~15 mins) run-time with the HO-13 on 18650s.


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## fasuto (Jul 17, 2007)

DM51 said:


> I now use the long 168 extender on a Sniper 6AX with 2 x 18650s and a P91 (idea copied from Paul_in_Maryland - thanks Paul, this is an excellent combo).



Why a P91 over a LF-EO-9 ?
I have my first incan (WE 6AX) on the way, without extender, but I find very interesting to play legos.


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## DM51 (Jul 17, 2007)

The P91 has better flood, the EO-9 more throw. I like the EO-9 for spotting things further away, but if you want to light up an area, the P91 is better IMO.


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## Optik49 (Jul 17, 2007)

Couple more days and it will be here.


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## FlashKat (Jul 17, 2007)

Which set-up did you order?


Optik49 said:


> Couple more days and it will be here.


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## KoiSG (Jul 17, 2007)

150 or 168? For me it depends on other factors besides run time and brightness. It depends on whether you have other lights that runs on these cells. For me, I have the GL3 which runs on 2 x 18500s and am planning to get the Raider which also runs on 2 x 18500s in the near future. With the M90 on 3 x 18500s, I would only need to handle 1 type of Li-ion batteries. And it gives me a few spares if i'm only going to use 1 light instead of 18500s for this light, 18650s on that light only.

Off topic abit.

I'm not experiencing any resistance when I screw on the tailcap to the 150 extender. It feels as if the tailcap are not making any contact with the o ring on the extender. Does any body else experience the same? If I'm to change the o ring, what size should I be looking at?:thinking:

Thanks

Sean


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## Optik49 (Jul 18, 2007)

FlashKat said:


> Which set-up did you order?


 
 I ordered the 13V 168 and a 700 lumen lamp. The light might be a little long but it also has longer runtime. I think if you’re going to run the 700 you would want more runtime. They way I look at it, if I want to run 123’s I’ll take off the extender. If I find 168 too long than I can just buy the 150 extender and the 150 batteries and I’m good to go.


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## Vermonter73 (Jul 18, 2007)

Are people experiencing any heat issues with the 500 and 700 lumen bulbs?


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## KoiSG (Jul 18, 2007)

Don't know about the 500 but the 700 can get very hot with about 5 minutes of use especially around the head. You can practically feel the heat if you place your hand an inch away from the lens even for a few seconds. I've used my 700 lumens bulb for not more than 10 minutes at a time.

Sean


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jul 19, 2007)

However, another user has reported that in cold weather, he had no heat problems; he could run the 700-lumen lamp as long as the cells held out.


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## KoiSG (Jul 19, 2007)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> However, another user has reported that in cold weather, he had no heat problems; he could run the 700-lumen lamp as long as the cells held out.


 
I'm from Singapore where we usually have to put up with ambient temperature between 26 to 32 degrees Celsius. Paul is right, the ambient temp does play a part on the operating temps of the torch.

Cheers
Sean


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## tomcat017 (Jul 21, 2007)

Anybody try running the 12V Lf HO-12 (550 lm) on the 150 version of the 13V rattlesnake? Just curious if that works as well. I'm trying to decide between the two versions as well, and am having a tough time picking one. What exactly is the advantage of running the 12V WE lamp on the 13V setup, other than more interchangability. Does it perform better than the 13V WE lamp, or the EO-13? Thanks in advance!!


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Jul 22, 2007)

Tomcat017,
Mark at Lumens Factory has gone as record that his 12V will hot-flash under three 150A cells. But the principle is simple: By overdriving a lamp--as this would do--you get the lamp to burn brighter and whiter. The Wolf Eyes 12V seems to be able to take three 150A cells. Lifetime will be compromised, but probably not by much.


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## tomcat017 (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks Paul, as always. I decided to go with the 168 version, and ordered it up...now waiting for it to arrive :naughty:. I already have the raider that I run with the HO-9, which is the light that I would use in an overhand application. So I figured the extra length wouldn't be a problem, and I'd go with the longer runtime for the EO-13. I found your post on the various WE lamps, and decided that overdriving the 12V wasn't really necessary for me. Thanks again for the help. Can't wait for it to get here...I'll post pictures if you guys want, though I'm sure there are already tons up. -mike


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