# is CREE XM-L2 the highest power led on the market now?



## vcreation (Feb 16, 2014)

I've been using Q5 led for years and had just gotten a XP-G R5 led last year, was good improvement. I want to keep the size down (1x 18650 battery)

now I see a lot of XM-L2 led on the market fit into my favour flashlight (ultrafire WF-501B)

just wondering is there stronger led tha XM-L2 in the same category currently?


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## Ryp (Feb 16, 2014)

What is your definition of "highest power"? The Cree MT-G2 puts out ~2000 lumens and is used in a lot of lights nowadays.


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## martinaee (Feb 16, 2014)

From everything I've read on CPF and other places it seems to have the highest efficacy and perhaps is the most efficient at lower power levels. So when you pack several of them into a light it probably is the best bet being used right now in super high output lights.


Off topic but does anybody know if FourSevens is planning upgrading that rediculous XM-18 to xm-l2's? It is so high ouput right now that it would probably make sense for them to wait for the next generation of the xm-l platform (xm-l3?) to see a huge jump from 18k lumens. It's so powerful now thought that it's not like it matters. That would be crazy though to see them get it up to 25-30k lumens. Insane.


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## DIWdiver (Feb 16, 2014)

re: thread title - 

No.

For a single die, I think that would be the Luminus CBT-140, at 3680 lm minimum at 21A. That's about 50 lm/W. Interestingly, it has a round emitting area, and no dome. I suspect it's built for things like stage lighting. For multiple dice, I would have said the CBT-360, but I no longer see that on their web site. I wonder if it's been discontinued.

re: question in the first post -

Well that's a different question, because you say 'in the same category'. Now you have to define the category. If you want it to fit in your flashlight and behave the same way, you want an XP-G2 for identical behavior and improved performance. The XM-L2 will give you a different beam because of the bigger die, but can offer slightly better efficiency at the same power input, or substantially greater lumens at increased power input.


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## idleprocess (Feb 16, 2014)

There are big _big_ single-package arrays with dozens of die spitting out thousands of lumens available. In addition to the no-name arrays available on fleabay/dx/etc, reputable manufacturers like Cree have arrays like the CXA3590, producing up to 18,000 lumens from a single ~35mm² package and gulping down 150W. While these won't do much for you in a reasonable-sized spotlight, they will do a nice job of replacing metal halide lamps in industrial settings, street lights, etc.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 16, 2014)

idleprocess said:


> There are big _big_ single-package arrays with dozens of die spitting out thousands of lumens available. In addition to the no-name arrays available on fleabay/dx/etc, reputable manufacturers like Cree have arrays like the CXA3590, producing up to 18,000 lumens from a single ~35mm² package and gulping down 150W. While these won't do much for you in a reasonable-sized spotlight, they will do a nice job of replacing metal halide lamps in industrial settings, street lights, etc.



I would like to see those Cree arrays in some worklight tripods. That would be great to have multiple levels and replace the 2x500 watt incandescent types. I know there are some LED models out there but none with that kind of performance.


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## vcreation (Feb 16, 2014)

when I say same category I mean the same size flashlight, powered by no more than 1x 18650 or 26650 battery, cos that one I have to carry with me.

im also thinking about getting one of those 12-15 LED lights that claim to have 13000+lm. however im worry abut the reliability of them. in the old das I used to have some flashlight just stop working, some starts flickering. and the cost like $25(now they are under $10) but the big strong on cost nearly $100, not very good when there is no warranty on it.


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## idleprocess (Feb 16, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> I would like to see those Cree arrays in some worklight tripods. That would be great to have multiple levels and replace the 2x500 watt incandescent types. I know there are some LED models out there but none with that kind of performance.


They're out there, but they seem to wither be specialized and expensive products such as Pelican's "remote area lights" or no-name arrays mounted inside of the typical tube-halogen housing with some concessions to heatsinking the LED.


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## mds82 (Feb 17, 2014)

Well there is always the Cree CXA2590 Array which can produce over 15,000 Lumen alone. Its about 24mmx24mm in size


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 17, 2014)

idleprocess said:


> They're out there, but they seem to wither be specialized and expensive products such as Pelican's "remote area lights" or no-name arrays mounted inside of the typical tube-halogen housing with some concessions to heatsinking the LED.



It would be nice to see an affordable one in stores like Menards, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. I wouldn't mind 35,000 to 45,000 lumens from only 300 watts, would you?


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 17, 2014)

vcreation said:


> when I say same category I mean the same size flashlight, powered by no more than 1x 18650 or 26650 battery, cos that one I have to carry with me.
> 
> im also thinking about getting one of those 12-15 LED lights that claim to have 13000+lm. however im worry abut the reliability of them. in the old das I used to have some flashlight just stop working, some starts flickering. and the cost like $25(now they are under $10) but the big strong on cost nearly $100, not very good when there is no warranty on it.



For flashlight size that you describe I don't believe anything can beat the XM-L2 for lumens output. The XP-G2 has better throw potential in that category but not lumen potential. It is possible to get 1000 lumens OTF with a good XM-L2 design and 1x18650 or 1x26650.


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## degarb (Feb 23, 2014)

Mr. Tone said:


> I would like to see those Cree arrays in some worklight tripods. That would be great to have multiple levels and replace the 2x500 watt incandescent types. I know there are some LED models out there but none with that kind of performance.



Actually, most trades use the 3x500 watt (30k lumen) halogen setup that needs replacing. Some photographers use super bright, small, lightweight hir 750 Totas (whiter, 24k lumen). Even then, I think the 400 mh is brighter, due to photon bounce inside on the white walls.

Yes, Mr. tone, this is my vision too. Price point for me $100 to $150. Weight and size form factor is important. Water cooled, okay. "It would be nice to see an affordable one in stores like Menards, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. I wouldn't mind 35,000 to 45,000 lumens from only 300 watts, would you?"


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## LEDealer (Feb 24, 2014)

I hate to beat a dead horse, but why hasn't anyone chimed in to mention the LUXEON M and the Cree MK-R?


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## DIWdiver (Feb 24, 2014)

Because the OP wants to replace the XP-G in a flashlight to improve the performance. Much of this discussion is really off-topic, and the Luxeon M and Cree MK-R would only continue that trend. While either of them might improve the efficiency of the light, they would change the behavior (beam pattern) significantly, which is not the OP's intent.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 25, 2014)

LEDealer said:


> I hate to beat a dead horse, but why hasn't anyone chimed in to mention the LUXEON M and the Cree MK-R?



With a standard 1x18650 light he will get the best overall lumen and lux output from a XM-L2, I believe.


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## LEDealer (Feb 27, 2014)

DIWdiver said:


> Because the OP wants to replace the XP-G in a flashlight to improve the performance. Much of this discussion is really off-topic, and the Luxeon M and Cree MK-R would only continue that trend. While either of them might improve the efficiency of the light, they would change the behavior (beam pattern) significantly, which is not the OP's intent.



Gotcha. The XM-L/L2 discussion is what I was focused on.
One interesting option would be the LUXEON MZ that they just announced, but I don't think the OP wants to change the PCB at all. It comes in a 3537 (?) package, I think.
That one is going to be a killer b/c its an undomed LUXEON M/Cree MK-R with pretty good lumen output if you believe the data sheet...

*edit* never mind, it's 12V, so he would need to switch more than the PCB, but I still think it will be a cool option for torches!


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## blommer (Mar 3, 2014)

mds82 said:


> Well there is always the Cree CXA2590 Array which can produce over 15,000 Lumen alone. Its about 24mmx24mm in size



Do you know where you can buy that now? Or is it too new?


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## idleprocess (Mar 3, 2014)

blommer said:


> Do you know where you can buy that now? Or is it too new?



Mouser, Digi-Key, other electronic component suppliers.


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## blommer (Mar 3, 2014)

idleprocess said:


> Mouser, Digi-Key, other electronic component suppliers.



I searched at those places but they don't have any CXA2590 unless you buy about a quantity of 50. Is that typical for led arrays? Or just because they're new?


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## idleprocess (Mar 4, 2014)

blommer said:


> I searched at those places but they don't have any CXA2590 unless you buy about a quantity of 50. Is that typical for led arrays? Or just because they're new?



Got to confess that I got no further than confirming that they stock them. They're a bit much for the average hobbyist - likely that they're only being sold in tray quantities because of this.


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## alpg88 (Mar 4, 2014)

vcreation said:


> I've been using Q5 led for years and had just gotten a XP-G R5 led last year, was good improvement. I want to keep the size down (1x 18650 battery)
> 
> now I see a lot of XM-L2 led on the market fit into my favour flashlight (ultrafire WF-501B)
> 
> just wondering is there stronger led tha XM-L2 in the same category currently?



as in single die led that runs on 1 18650, xml2 would be the strongest


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## carl (Mar 5, 2014)

So if the consensus here is XML2 for a 1x18650, is there any new LED with improved efficiency/brightness for a 1x18650 coming up in 2014?


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