# OLED room lighting, 1200 lumens



## NewBie (Mar 6, 2004)

OLED Article 

_Edited to shorten link - Empath _


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## kongfuchicken (Mar 6, 2004)

I've heard about those;
they were invented by some kodak phd and are supposed to revolutionize flat panel screens, making them cheaper, brighter and bendable...
It also seems they were having trouble making blue cells but these will eventually replace lcd screens.


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## bricksie (Mar 6, 2004)

I believe Kodak has a digital camera that has an OLED display (as opposed to the standard lcd) that is significantly brighter and more detailed than current LCDs (also more efficient). However I understand that this technology is short-lived compared to LCD or standard LEDs - max of about 7 years before the OLED begins to decay.


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## Kiessling (Mar 6, 2004)

some cell phones do have such displays ... e.g. the Samsung SGH-E700
bernhard


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## PhotonWrangler (Mar 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*bricksie said:*
I believe Kodak has a digital camera that has an OLED display (as opposed to the standard lcd) that is significantly brighter and more detailed than current LCDs (also more efficient). However I understand that this technology is short-lived compared to LCD or standard LEDs - max of about 7 years before the OLED begins to decay. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct on both counts. It's one of the Kodak EasyShare cameras. It was introduced in Europe, but I don't know if it's been brought to the U.S.

There is an issue with lifetime, particularly with the blue emitters, I believe, and the whole thing is really sensitive to moisture ingress, which can destroy it. But they are making steady progress.


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## gwbaltzell (Mar 6, 2004)

And I have a Norelco (Philips) razor that has an OLED display, LiIon battery, and though I am a flashaholic, I bought it because it can be rinsed under the faucet. My understanding of the main problem with OLED's is their very short life.
Now, does anyone want a beamshot? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

BTW the readability and window wrap problem can be fixed by changing
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>http://someplace.com/some_very_long_thing
to
shorter words</pre><hr />

PS I think this was moved more for the wrap problem than the topic!


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## Empath (Mar 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*gwbaltzell said:*
PS I think this was moved more for the wrap problem than the topic! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was moved because it's not flashlight related. It is an interesting topic though.


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## PhotonWrangler (Mar 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*gwbaltzell said:*
And I have a Norelco (Philips) razor that has an OLED display, LiIon battery, and though I am a flashaholic, I bought it because it can be rinsed under the faucet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I've read about that one. It's a monochrome status display, right? Can you determine if the display is built on a flexible substrate?


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## gwbaltzell (Mar 6, 2004)

Thanks for shortening the link. Judging by this article and what I've read, OLEDs scale up easier in output than semiconductor based LEDs, but 100hrs is an awfully short life unless they can make them *really* cheap!


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## gwbaltzell (Mar 6, 2004)

The razor display is a yellow-green (to me), has a mirror-like surface behind it (I think to increase brightness), and I can't percieved any depth to it, unlike a LCD display. Given the apparent thiness I suspect its flexible. Shows remaining battery time when on or charging, charging indication, time used and if its time to rinse (every 7 uses) for a short time after being turned off.


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## PhotonWrangler (Mar 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*gwbaltzell said:*
Thanks for shortening the link. Judging by this article and what I've read, OLEDs scale up easier in output than semiconductor based LEDs, but 100hrs is an awfully short life unless they can make them *really* cheap! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Just looked at the rating on a regular 100-watt household bulb - 1125 hours.

I wonder if the lifetime depends on how bright they're operated at, like EL lamps. Electroluminescent panels seem to have a lifetime that's affected tremendously by how bright they're run (which depends partly upon the frequency that they're operated at).

I also wonder whether heat is a factor in OLED aging. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


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## gwbaltzell (Mar 6, 2004)

Haven't seen any specifics but heat must play a factor since they are *O*rganic.
Also never found a good reference on EL aging factors other than moisture. I think varying the frequency might extend the life of an EL panel and, if true, may speak to a factor on efficiency also.


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## PhotonWrangler (Mar 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*gwbaltzell said:*
Also never found a good reference on EL aging factors other than moisture. I think varying the frequency might extend the life of an EL panel and, if true, may speak to a factor on efficiency also. 

[/ QUOTE ]

The instructions that came with one of my EL experimenter's kits states that the hlamp will be much brighter when running in the low khz range, rather than 60hz mains frequency. I've verified this on the bench.

But it also states that the lamp will age much faster when operated at a higher frequency.


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## PhotonWrangler (Mar 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*gwbaltzell said:*
The razor display is a yellow-green (to me), has a mirror-like surface behind it (I think to increase brightness), and I can't percieved any depth to it, unlike and LCD display. Given the apparent thiness I suspect its flexable. Shows remaining battery time when on or charging, charging indication, time used and if its time to rinse (every 7 uses) for a short time after being turned off. 

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's not just a segmented bar graph, it actually displays text? Cool. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif


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## gwbaltzell (Mar 6, 2004)

The older model razor has an LCD display with battery level as a bar graph and time remaining, simple clean reminder, thorough clean reminder, and charging indicator. Both also beep for cleaning and when recharging is needed. The most interesting feature, to me, on the old model is the small switch which is a small bar that you think you are simply moving up and down, In reality you are pressing down on the clear insert, which doubles as a window to show the "on" LED, to unlock the switch. Elegant!

On the subject of EL panels, age alone does not seem to be a factor. A few years ago I put two 30yr old switch plates into service. An older nightlight panel I have that was used until it it grew too dim will still light up nicely at 1000Hz.


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## NewBie (Mar 7, 2004)

Here is a full color OLED display. The Toshiba ones looked lots better than the kodak and samsung ones I saw at last years show:


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## Marked (Mar 7, 2004)

Do OLED even act like Diodes?


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## gwbaltzell (Mar 7, 2004)

My understanding is the construction more closely resembles LCD which is why they are easier to build and scale up. The mechanism by which they generate light is like LEDs, that whole quantum state thing.


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## kongfuchicken (Mar 7, 2004)

I've heard that these will be way easier and cheaper to produce than lcd screens because they do not require extreme temperatures like lcds... That will also allow to use flexible bases that the temperature lcd requires would destroy. The fabrication of oleds will also be way simpler; they can be somply "printed" like with a ink jet printer on the support. However, I highly doubt that oled screens will be cheaper than lcd screens when commercialized; despite the substantially lower cost of manufacturing, companies are likely to boast higher performance, contrast and luminosity to justify their price.


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## gwbaltzell (Mar 7, 2004)

I propably should had said more like old passive LCDs, most computer and TV LCD screens are active with transistors as part of the screen. The basic OLED is a layer of support, a conductor, the organic material, a layer suppling quantum holes (the Kodak improvement), a tranparent conductor, clear protective layer.


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## HarryN (May 3, 2004)

Seveal years ago, Moto put out a flip phone with area color OLED - my wife still has hers, and it would take a prybar to get it out of her hands. The readability is so much better than any of the phones I have had.

I am not sure if OLED will ever hit LCD pricing. The current technology is limited to smaller glass sizes than LCD, and the process is much like taking an LCD and adding the OLED technology on top of it.

I would make an argument that the OLED does not HAVE to hit LCD pricing to be a good deal in small electronics - or even full color - the readability of a monochrome OLED is fantastic for text and simple graphics. I think I am in the minority opinion on this, as the world is rapidly shifting toward full color cell phones and PDA's.

For me, I would love to replace my Garmin eMap GPS (nice unit with an el crapo screen - hard to read esp. at night) with a very nice - single color - OLED. 

The DOE is funding research for general lighting using OLED and LED. OLED is somewhat behind. Don't fall in love with flexible backplanes just yet - OLED lifetime is partially dependent on a hermetic sealed system, and it is a lot easier to do with glass backplanes. It is possible with flexible, but not necessarily cheap.


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## PhotonWrangler (May 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*HarryN said:*
Seveal years ago, Moto put out a flip phone with area color OLED - my wife still has hers, and it would take a prybar to get it out of her hands. The readability is so much better than any of the phones I have had. 

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the model number of that flip phone? I might've seen it and thought it was an EL panel or VFD technology.

While I was at NAB a week and a half ago, I made a point of stopping by the Kodak booth in the hopes that they'd show their prototype OLED monitor, but no dice - the booth worker hadn't even heard the term OLED before. Agh.

I want to see an OLED display in person so I can evaluate it for colorimetry, motion artifacts, etc.


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## NewBie (May 4, 2004)

OSRAM is offering a demokit for single color OLED now, 3000-10000 hour lifetime, depending on how hard you push it, and what color.

Pricing in volume, about 20.00 USD.


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## PhotonWrangler (May 4, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
OSRAM is offering a demokit for single color OLED now, 3000-10000 hour lifetime, depending on how hard you push it, and what color.

Pricing in volume, about 20.00 USD. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Wow. Last time I looked the only demo kit wasfrom Kodak and they wanted something like $2500 for it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif

Do you have a contact for the Osram kit?


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## HarryN (May 5, 2004)

Hi - I am on a trip right now, but when I get home I will try to find the model number on her phone. This was produced around 2001 - 2002. I am pretty sure they did not use an EL since that would have had very short battery life.

It is area color - not full color. You probably know this, but this means that there were different OLED colors in different regions of the display, as opposed to a mixture of colors making up a pixel.

I am not sure if this one would really be a good test bed for evaluation of motion artifacts, as it looks a lot like an EL and is really for text dislay.

If you need a contact at OSRAM OLED group let me know. They have a nice single color, (I would call it amber) display and are pretty easy to work with.


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## PhotonWrangler (May 5, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*HarryN said:*
Hi - I am on a trip right now, but when I get home I will try to find the model number on her phone. This was produced around 2001 - 2002. I am pretty sure they did not use an EL since that would have had very short battery life.

It is area color - not full color. You probably know this, but this means that there were different OLED colors in different regions of the display, as opposed to a mixture of colors making up a pixel.

I am not sure if this one would really be a good test bed for evaluation of motion artifacts, as it looks a lot like an EL and is really for text dislay.

If you need a contact at OSRAM OLED group let me know. They have a nice single color, (I would call it amber) display and are pretty easy to work with. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. I wasn't expecting to evaluate motion artifacts on an area-color display; I mostly want to see one of those to evaluate the contrast ratio, brightness and viewing angle.

Yes, I'd like to know whom to contact at Osram. I checked their website and found an evaluation kit for a single-color greenish-looking "Pictiva" graphics display w/driver hardware, but at $1850.00, that's a little rich for my taste. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

If they had a single-color area-only sample that I could get my hands on, I'd be happy with that until the graphics-capable displays become affordable by mortals.

regards,


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## HarryN (May 10, 2004)

Hi - The model number on the Moto phone is P8767. It was called a Moto "Timeport". I am not sure which carriers offered it, but hers is a silver color via Horizon.

I am not a flip phone fan, but I will tell you this thing is really tough. When my teenage son was living at home (now in college) he had an identical phone. He and his crazy friends somehow came up with a game - "who's phone is tougher?" They would take their phones, throw them as hard and far as they could, landing on blacktop roads. The "winner" was the person with the cell phone that survived that evening. Crazy as this sounds, my son never lost - on the same cell phone.

It still worked fine when he went to college and we turned off the service. Now of course, if he wants a cell phone, it is on his nickel.


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## PhotonWrangler (May 10, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*HarryN said:*
Hi - The model number on the Moto phone is P8767. It was called a Moto "Timeport". I am not sure which carriers offered it, but hers is a silver color via Horizon.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, found a photo of it - thanks. I have seen that phone somewhere, and I remember being struck by the fact that the display looked like nothing else I've ever seen before. Thanks for the info!


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## NewBie (May 23, 2004)

The contact for the kit is AvNet, one of their distributors in the USA.


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## PhotonWrangler (May 23, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*NewBie said:*
The contact for the kit is AvNet, one of their distributors in the USA. 

[/ QUOTE ]

There's an AvNet presence in my area. I'll check them out... thanks.


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