# 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sale



## doron (Apr 19, 2004)

hid 35 & 50 W avaylable 'also under water use versions 
full combat prooven size 3" w X 10" long 4 aH nmih built in ' magnetic switch, 
intersted anyone? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## darkzero (Apr 19, 2004)

got any pics, prices, and/or links? These are the basics needed to carry on interest.


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## paulr (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

Hi Doron, and welcome to CPF. It would be great if you posted more info and description of those lights here (and photos!!!). But when you're offering stuff for sale you should use the B/S/T (buy/sell/trade) section of the forum.


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## AlexGT (Apr 19, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

Since you are a newbie, can you shock us with some pics? Where are this torches used? Military, LEO? Do you make them or know who does? A website we can go to check them out?

If you are the manufacturer, Can you post the specs? What kind of bulb does it use? Ballast? The company name, address and phone?

Maybe you could send one for review to one of the reviewers of the forum, There are a few highly respected members who can do an impartial review on the light.

HTH
Alex


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## udaman (Apr 19, 2004)

Sounds like a light with similar features as the KenRad dive light line kenrad dive lights 

I'll assume they are,

Standard 35/50 auto ballast is just small enought to fit those dimentions, D2S capsule, with slightly smaller dia. reflector than the Kenrad---so no tight spot here? Or is this just another KenRad design built in Asia, with another label slapped on it? Kenshiro tried the Kenrad lights, and was not all that impressed with them. One thing is for sure, at only 10in long, 3in. dia, that light is going to get very, very hot with 50w, and everything crammed into it and no massive heat sinking head, like the Wolf-Eyes 40w HID uses.


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## Reno (Apr 19, 2004)

Smells like BS to me...


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## kongfuchicken (Apr 19, 2004)

I can't help but feel cpf isn't very hospicious to newbies these days...
Welcome to cpf, Doron. Pictures would sure help.


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## doron (Apr 20, 2004)

the product is used by special forces in israel i will add a picture asap


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## PeLu (Apr 20, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*udaman said:*
Sounds like a light with similar features as the KenRad dive light line ....
Or is this just another KenRad design built in Asia, with another label slapped on it? 

[/ QUOTE ]

The light at the Kenrad site is the German Treble-Light and they are designed and built in Germany.

Besides, I would be interested in the Israelian lamp, it's just what I'm looking for now.


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## LEDagent (Apr 20, 2004)

Thanks alot Reno...that pisses me the hell off... What was the point of that well thought of post?

You know...when i first joined...that wasn't the way we treated newbies to our community. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

By the way Doron...welcome.


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## udaman (Apr 20, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*PeLu said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*udaman said:*
Sounds like a light with similar features as the KenRad dive light line ....
Or is this just another KenRad design built in Asia, with another label slapped on it? 

[/ QUOTE ]

The light at the Kenrad site is the German Treble-Light and they are designed and built in Germany.

Besides, I would be interested in the Israelian lamp, it's just what I'm looking for now. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you live in Austria and the unknown Israeli HID dive light in question has nearly identical specifications as the German Treble-Light, why would you not just buy the Treble-Light? There is a full set of details and listing of different models on the KenRad site, dive lights, hand-held spot or floodlights, video lights...none of these, which seem to have the same qualities,specifications, 'combat tested'; of the unknown Isreali light are 'just what I'm looking for now'? Or did I misinterpret your language, did you mean to say you are looking for any HID light as long as it is coming from Israel???

Problem is that doron has been *short on details asked for, so we can only speculate so far*. It may turn out to be that these are the Treble-Light, or maybe a better or worse light with the same features/dimensions?

German/Israeli use metric, so the size conversion that doron is using and KenRad's site, could mean that the lights in question are the same light. In other words, like Pila/Copia, perhaps an Isreali company has the marketing rights to the German Treble-Light in Israel and it is marketed under a different name.

I made no implication as to quality of build here. Merely that there are many 'copy-cat' lights being made. Cheaper immitations, of lower quality come from China/Asia all the time. Some products are better than others, whether or not being made in Germany, Israel, China, Japan, USA; or other countries.

Wolf-Eyes(Copia) are made in China, appear to be well thought out products, using Li-Ion tech(Wolf-Eyes 40w HID Li-Ion searchlight ). How good they end up being, only time will tell, when people test them. KenRad site mentions the same type of information 'combat tested' and specs as the mystery Israeli light. Just seemed to me that, it may in fact be, the same light. 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

LEDagent, you are correct Reno's post is not the politest of commentaries, but doron's post(s) seriously left a lot to be desired for lack of details. It sounded like a lot of salemanship(HYPE maybe?). And Reno may have been taking a cue from my post, in thinking this 'newbie' doesn't have much in the way of details, that it could just be the same lights I have linked to, or another 'knock-off'... i.e., poor choice of words to indicate that if this is the German Treble-Light knockoff, it is a snooze product (BS), been-there-done-that.

Don't get so PO'd about bad manners though, the stress will kill you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## doron (Apr 20, 2004)

the light is a modefied version of the trebelight which i used to consult to in thair development of this and another lightthat may not legally offered by anyone else including trebelight .
i have been reasearching hid systems for the past 7-8 years and generally the field of lighting equipment for military police and recue work .
i will be offering very soon a have a new patented versions of HID ballasts made here at 35 50 and soon 70 watts which are far superioer to the trebelight version and are in fact beter then osram and philips matsushita or any others
by the way the superlight contest and show did not include kwang shin of korea or the japan 75 xenon 
the will be offered as kits for conversion as well as oem
all ballast can be equipt also with a dimming option
so if anyone is serious here lets hear you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


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## Mr Ted Bear (Apr 20, 2004)

Doron:

I am interested in your work, especially the ballasts which you state are far superior ... May I ask, superior in what way? Efficiency? Thermal and electron management? Re-stike times? BTW, which bulbs are you using in your designs?

Also, the kwang shin and th japan xenon doon't ring a bell; can you provide more informantion?


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## cy (Apr 20, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

doron, Apologies for the inhospitable ambience of cfp to newbies. Some threads occurred recently that involved newbies possibly being proxies for someone else against Arc flashlight who is near and dear to cpf. 

To make matters worst for newbies (under 10 posts). A newbie just offered some rare lights, took funds from several members and so far has not been heard from again (as yet). 

So when you mention selling some very expensive lights with no track history..... Sorry about being so sensitive. Just trying to explain.

Welcome to cpf and we will hold on to our wallets.


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## kongfuchicken (Apr 20, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

cy, I second that.

Doron, I'm definitively interested! And when pictures show up, I won't be the only one.


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## Zelandeth (Apr 20, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

I'm curious to see these lights now. Pending a lottery win, I'll never be able to afford one, but that's not the point! I can always dream...

And welcome to CPF, Doron!


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## LEDagent (Apr 20, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

I'm excited to see the 75 watt ballasts. I didn't even know there was such a thing. 

The problem with HID tactical systems are there start-up times which usually take 10 or so seconds. The only "HID" systems i know that start up at full brightness are the Xenon short-arc systems from Maxabeam or MegaRay spotlights. They make for great tight beams but they lack the total luminous output of the more common HID bulbs.

I'm excited to see what you have to offer. At the moment, there are very few HID light systems geared towards tactical use. The only one on the market that i know of is from Reva with there Long Arm line of spotlights, Maxabeam, and Megaray. The rest of the competition market their lights for other purposes.


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## udaman (Apr 20, 2004)

Doron; I’ll second Mr. Teddy Bear's questions, we still need more detailed information.

You’ll find much more interest, or at least be able to better gauge interest if you provide more specific details. For example, just how would a person use the HID kits? With automobile HID upgrade kits, it is not a particularly difficult thing to do. What lights would these HID kits fit? The main problem with flashlights, is that the HID ballasts are too large to fit into all but the largest bodies/heads. Can you make them much smaller for the lower wattage HID capsules?

If you can upload some pictures here, of any lights that have been upgraded with your kits, both before and after beamshots, that would be great. You can use the free picture hosting site www.photobucket.com for this.

If you have read through the various HID related threads on CPF, you must know that there are few here that are willing to spend more than the de facto standard for ‘bang for the buck’, ‘most lumens for the least amount of money’ the X990 at $500. If you have a reduced size ballast w/75 xenon short arc bulb for say, $200 total to install in this light; then you’d probably have upwards of 1/2 the X990 owners here respond with “Paypal sent” “when can I get it!”. When you speak of search and rescue or military police, people are inclined to think…Maxabeam, Megaray, $$$$. You will not find many buyers here in that upper range. Recent CPF member “barbarin” in Spain, has a 10w WA powered lamp assembly, small D-cell body diameter(smallest size the standard WA 10w ballast will fit into) for $420, and that is too expensive for many here, for a light of less than 500lm output. Cree and Nichia have announced 60+ lumen/watt LED’s which will likely appear next year, and may replace most of the 10w HID lights, given the superior shock resistance of LED& more trouble free electronic modules. 60lm/w LED's on the horizon 

I’m not sure what Mr.TB means about “re-strike times”. Perhaps that question is, are these ‘hot restrikeable’, meaning you can turn the light off, and immediately turn it back on without waiting for the capsule to cool down? Some HID lamps will not relight until they have cooled down sufficiently after being turned off.

For even more limited appeal, since you have said you have done almost a decade of research into HID’s, take a look at this forum’s moderator light, Kenshiro’s Ken4, 250w 24v halogen X990 slayer. If you have a source for a ballast small enough to put in the Ken4 Vector ‘yellow banana’ body, that does not cost a fortune; there are few crazies here who would love to put a 200 or 250w 16,000 lumen Osram HMI capsule into this light. Ken4 vs. X990 vs. SF M6/500


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## doron (Apr 21, 2004)

Thank you all i am still dont know how to send a photo into this forum 
regarding new hid ballasts they are designed around a defferent patented methd of igniting 35 and 50 w d1 d2 s ETC the main advantages are: ballast are working cold you can tuch the circuit with bear hands after hours of operation without any cooling heat sinks, the start up phase has no hazard in it all others will kill you if you tuch it. a break of bulb or a short in such situations as accidents will not kill the ballast,ballast performance will compensate performance of first lamp immitations coming out of the far east (the are not authorized for road use) 
ballast and igniter are miniature and connecting wires are tiny since there is no need for the standard hi tension high insulation required by others
ballast diameter is approx 80 milimiter similar in size but much shorter then the one installed in the trebelight diving torch.
regarding conversions with trebelight ballast the will not operate beyond 140 degrees celsuse and wouldnt restart before cooling of and therefore are not good for headlight conversion.
tactical light: when ever yuo consider a maxa beam or xenonixs or similar: they are good for surveilance work at very long range prefebly with IR lens at tactical range wich in real life is 200-450 meters any hid 35W equiped with a poorly made 2$ taiwanees of road reflector will generat almmost 6 times the output of a maxab .at a fracture of its cost and cost of lamp replacement in addition the start up time is not really much of a problem military use of light is not for aiming an m60 at anothe army since yo will be targeted the reason is to use fire armes selectively in civilian population and for that you need a lot of light and durrability and so fa nothing beats to my openion the 35 - 50 watts d1 d2 s for automotive use/ 
long arm is verry limited since it has a very narrow beam only you cam miss a man target a 100 yards and it aways remind me of the plumer device used to drain the toylet with (sorry)
i woulnd trust for tactical use any taiwan or far east ballast since they are usually a doun fall from illegal hid that are never approved by car mfr.
regarding the new kumkang i have no previus experience
kwang shin is 50short are xenon with glass reflector and only 1 degree focus. solid but extreemely heavy 
i dont see any point in a use of 250w or even 70 for tactical use especially since you cannot carry anough batterys for a normal duration
any light which has a fillement will never last the abuse and vibration and ecidential dropsgenerated in of road driving condition
i hope i aswered someone and i am very pleasd to meetother fricks like me arround the globe.
for the new balasts i will be acting a adistributer exporter since i have sold this start up but in addition 
i am also looking for counseling work for lighting companies in the states in order to put some of the fruits of my research into products made in the USA any sponseres?


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 21, 2004)

doron, figure how to post pictures in CPF. What you have sounds great, and small, compared to what we have available.

Bill


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## Draco_Americanus (Apr 21, 2004)

Just a F.Y.I the high voltage start up pulses will not likly kill you. The current and pulse duration would be too low. It will on the otherhand knock you off your feet or other wise make you wish you had not touched that wire. Also it could burn you a bit too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

High voltage stuff is a hobby of mine and I even built a table top Tesla Coil.


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## naromtap (Apr 21, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Draco_Americanus said:*
Just a F.Y.I the high voltage start up pulses will not likly kill you 

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad you cleared that one up Draco as I was dwelling on that one after rereading it a few times - started looking at HID's in a totally different light - excuse the pun!


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## Nitro (Apr 22, 2004)

High Voltage will not kill you unless it's backed up with Amperage. One amp through the heart can be fatal. So, if you get shocked by high voltage, it will not kill you unless the voltage *stays* high enough to produce at least one amp through your heart.

I believe these ballast's cannot sustain a high enough voltage to produce one amp through your heart. The voltage will drop.

High powered Current sources are much more dangerous then high powered Voltage sources. A current source set at only One Amp will *raise* the voltage until it can produce one amp. That means if you touch (with both hands) a high powered current source set at One Amp, it will send one amp through you and your heart which can be fatal.

However, if the current passes though your hand only, you won't die. But if the current is high enough, it could melt your hand off. That's why if you work on high voltage equipment, you should only work with one hand.

Ain't electricity fun?


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## PeLu (Apr 22, 2004)

In other words (to add a little bit to Nitro's excellent post):
Ohm's law applies also here, when you have (for example, this may change in a wide range and be different for DC and different AC) 10kOhm skin/body resistance, 10 000 V will drive 1A through your body. If the source is only able to give 0.1A, the voltage at your body will drop down to 1000V. So when the voltage source is only able to give 5mA it is harmless (for most, but may be quite nasty) and does not matter how high the voltage is it may give.
Besides that all, photo flashes produce quite a high voltage and current for a short time and they are around in many households. And I have not heard about any fatalities or hurt people with them. Actually their capacitor usually holds enough energy to kill a person. 
But it is very difficult to get the current through you body in a way which will harm you. 
Thats why that I (with my very limited knowledge) think that an HID's ignition voltage is any danger which is worth thinking about (with a professional product).


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## Draco_Americanus (Apr 22, 2004)

I was tought that a tenth (.1 amp or 100ma) of an amp can cause death under the right conditons. If your skin resistance is low enough (i.e wet from salty sweat) a car battery can kill. one of the worst electrical shocks I have had was from a 12 battery, I was stupid and tried to pick the thing up from it's terminals. The current path was up one arm, though my chest and heart and down the other arm back to the battery. Luckly my reaction cause me to drop the battery. 
The starting circuit for a HID lacks the high energy capacitor that is found in normal camera flashs. The starter in a HID is basicly just a trigger coil that may have a smaller capacitor to trigger that. It's hard to find real data on that though. I would love to get my paws on a schmantic diagram if I could.
Anyway some verry basic safty tips. don't touch the terminals inside the bulb socket if you can avoid it. with the power removed one could short both terminals with a wire to make shure every thing is discharged. Don't leave any wires bare, allways insulate them well. 
when working with high voltage try putting a hand in your pocket and only use one hand for working with (that lessens the risk of a grouned shock across your chest). 
don't play with high voltage while barefoot, I am bad at breaking that one! 
There are many more things as well but all of them have one thing in common.... Use common scence! Things go mutch better that way!


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## Greymage (Apr 22, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

Is it just me, or does doron sound a lot like goncz?

And if you search on doron's posts, first he asks:
[ QUOTE ]
i am looking for a good modification of a tactical light
that has an hid or similar system sych as wealch allyn or
bright light anyone can help? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Then he says in his second post: [ QUOTE ]
i have been reasearching hid systems for the past 7-8 years and generally the field of lighting equipment for military police and recue work

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, I could be wrong, doron hasn't accused anyone of using hair color, being gay, or being a communist yet, which goncz would have by now. If so I apologize.


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## doron (Apr 22, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

sorry dear! i am formally the founder and owner of an israeli company which was sold by me several month or so
the company represented among others KChilites(US) NBB (sweden)Nordic light(finland) Trebelight (Germany),Kangshin (korea) ( excluding Hella and Lightforce i bellive it covers every hid lighting mfr world wide
thanks
doron


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## doron (Apr 22, 2004)

P.s regarding Japan there is a product similar in performance to Maxa beam the main deference is that there is no blinking efect avaylabe (the main resone by the way tha maxab eats bulbs rapidly) and the focusing mecanizm is mecanical and not via dc motor the producer name is shonan
regards
doron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Greymage (Apr 22, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

Doron,

I think many people, myself included, would be interested in the 35 & 50W HID tactical torches you said were for sale in your original post at the top of this thread.

Please post pictures and prices of what you have available for sale. If you have trouble posting pictures email them to the address in my profile and I'd be happy to post them for you.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Apr 22, 2004)

Let's try and put this thread back on track...

[ QUOTE ]
*doron said:*
hid 35 & 50 W avaylable 'also under water use versions 
full combat prooven size 3" w X 10" long 4 aH nmih built in ' magnetic switch, 
intersted anyone? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure that I speak for many of the members; please provide as much information as possible about the lights that you have for sale. If you don't know how to post a picture, then email them to me ([email protected]), and I will post them for you.

I ask all other members to refraim from comparing doron to Goncz. doron has made some bold claims; let's give him the courtesy of proving himself


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 22, 2004)

hmmm, would you like a US dealer. I might be willing to purchase a dealer sample to passaround to the HID experts on this site.


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## Reno (Apr 22, 2004)

LedAgent, sorry if I offended you or any of the other members with my blunt opinion.

Doron, welcome aboard. Now prove me wrong.


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## BB (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

Between 3 to 5 mAmps (0.003 to 0.005 amps) are considered to be the maximum safe leakage current by UL/NRTL's in standard commercial/consumer equipment. 15 mAmps and above are considered to be the threshold for danger to the heart.

-Bill


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## Catdaddy (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

the infamous "Goncz" needs to become a verb on CPF, imho. We would say "don't Goncz us" or "I feel like I am getting Gonczed". And of course we could close a thread if someone starts it and then begins Gonczing". 

What do you think?

I am withholding my opinion on this particular thread a little longer to see if anything actual materialized. If not soon, we may be getting..."Gonczed"


What a wonderful tribute to the name. Don't you think? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## soloco (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

can someone explain Gonczed?


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## dukeleto (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

look up Goncz in the search /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Even better: go to bladeforums and look him up.
Spectacular!

Olivier


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## Draco_Americanus (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 & 50 W HID compact tactical torches for sa*

[ QUOTE ]
*BB said:*
Between 3 to 5 mAmps (0.003 to 0.005 amps) are considered to be the maximum safe leakage current by UL/NRTL's in standard commercial/consumer equipment. 15 mAmps and above are considered to be the threshold for danger to the heart.

-Bill 

[/ QUOTE ]

it's funny that this thread has this as a side topic as I just had some UL training for leakage, creepage and clerance tolerances. I work for a company that makes medical equipment and that ul standard (60661-1 or somthing, dang manual is at work) has 10ma as it's max. 
I find it funny that every one seems to have diffrent standards i.e consumer, medical, US, CAN, EU ..ect
I sometimes wonder if they real do know what the threashhold is. 10ma was assuming you had a body resistance of 1kohm with dry skin hand to hand, and that seems too low for most people. I mesured my self once with wet hands and had a resistance of 5kohms. 
Peronaly I belive 0ma should be the correct leakage current but thats a some times imposible.


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## Greymage (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

Maybe your resistance depends on how fat you are too? And probably overall size has a lot to do with it.

All things considered, I'd rather people erred on the conservative side when specing things like this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## bmsmith (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

While all of this talk about how much current the human body can withstand is fascinating, can we please keep this thread on topic: 35W and 50W HID flashlights from doron.

doron: Please send any pictures you have to Mr Ted Bear and he will post them here for all of us to see.


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## flash.... (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

Welcome Doron...
As mentioned above Pics, Specs, Beamshots & Prices are what makes a sale here on CPF.
You have my attention....
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


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## AlexGT (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

Yeah Doron! Give us the pics! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gifWhat would be the estimated price range for your lights? Lumens? Throw? 

Wow it's nice to see new manufacturers around offering interesting lights, Guess I will have to get rid of my big oldies soon to make way for a totally new breed of lights.

Bring it on!!! I brought my /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

Alex 
Ps. Didn't say this on my previous post, Welcome aboard!!! Hope you like it here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

If I can buy a dealer sample and be first in line to be a dealer. I will make it a passaround light to stir up interest in this light. If the passaround gets rave review, I know I can sell them for you.


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## cue003 (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

[ QUOTE ]
*flash.... said:*
Welcome Doron...
As mentioned above Pics, Specs, Beamshots & Prices are what makes a sale here on CPF.
You have my attention....
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I will be looking for the same thing. If you can provide these things then I may be interested.


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## AlexGT (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

No word from Doron since 4/19 and 15 posts ago. Doron are you still there? We're waiting...

Alex


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## Greymage (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

He posted 4/22, just a couple of days ago. Maybe he's a normal person and doesn't visit CPF every day /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## cy (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

are we being goncz'ed? 

I'd love to see pic's of these fab HID lights taken with today's Israeli newspaper. 

That would ease thing up.


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## Catdaddy (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

Gonczed


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## Reno (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

Apologies in advance.

Doron.

Rhymes with...


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## Reno (Apr 27, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

Not cool, Doron...


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## AlexGT (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

Are you going to show your lights? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif


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## Mr Ted Bear (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

This thread is going nowhere. Time for a break


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## Greta (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: 35 &amp; 50 W HID compact tactical torches fo*

Yep... time for this one to be given a proper burial... say good night Gracie!... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


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