# 2007 Inova - new products?



## xm_8 (Jan 15, 2007)

2007 Inova - Did Inova showcase new products at the Shot Show? Any news on new products?


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## Illum (Jan 15, 2007)

I overheard something about Inovas dropping their TIROS in the XO3/T3 lights
check under Empath's SHOT thread


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## fnmag (Jan 16, 2007)

I would love it if Inova came on board with the Seoul Led. Mated with some of their lights would be irresistable to me.


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## MattK (Jan 16, 2007)

I'm going to hate myself for even posting this but here's the deal for Inova 2007:

Some of this should be taken with a grain of salt as I've already received 2007 product that wasn't as listed on the 2007 product modification sheet.

-TIROS is going away on every light, all lights will have clear mineral glass lense (AR)/reflectors.
New Wattage Ratings for the whole line:
X1 2W
XO 4.8W
XO3 5.8W (Got some. Package reads 3.9W, not 5.8W. Clearly a K2 inside.)
T1 4.8W (now 2 X CR123A)
T2 4.8W (also listed as 2 x cr123a - now that makes no sense right?)
T3 5.8W
T4 7.0W (Got some, wattage not listed, pkging says 125 Lumens. Clearly a K2 inside.)
T5 7.0W

New BOLT series lights - not out yet - supposed to look like us bolts. 2AA/2AAA/2CR123A 2/3.8/4.8W

Pricing on some X and all T series is up. Expect to see low retail on T4's climb to 100+. etc etc etc


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## xm_8 (Jan 16, 2007)

Are the new X and T series a flood beam?
Are the new X and T series no longer throwers?
Has the X5 been discontinued like the 24/7?


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## greenlight (Jan 16, 2007)

Having a reflector is more dramatic than an optic. The casual user can see/compare the light source (so small!) and the tremendous output. With the original x1 you couldn't even see the led.


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## MattK (Jan 16, 2007)

The new lights still have decent throw but less than with the TIROS versions. The beam (white wall hunting) is much smoother and cleaner with a fairly tight hotspot and more than average sidespill. The reflector is nicely done and looks to be brushed aluminum.

Neither the X5 or 24/7 has been discontinued - though pricing is up on the 24/7's. The 'titanium' color 24/7 was discon. earlier this year and only the 24/7 with the acc kit is available.


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## spinkid (Jan 16, 2007)

MattK, Are the new T4's available yet??


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## MattK (Jan 16, 2007)

I just have a few cases of the new ones and was planning to sell the 'old' ones first - email me though and I'd be happy to make it happen for you if you want a new one. You could even come pick it up as I see you're in CT.


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## Illum (Jan 16, 2007)

MattK said:


> X1 2W
> XO 4.8W
> XO3 5.8W (Got some. Package reads 3.9W, not 5.8W. Clearly a K2 inside.)
> T1 4.8W (now 2 X CR123A)
> ...



so the new x1 will use a luxeon?
XO bump to 5 watt led et al?


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## jayflash (Jan 16, 2007)

Now if only they'd upgrade the electronics so they're not running so close to their limits and would allow the use of LiIon cells. These issues have kept me from the T3 which I'd, otherwise, like to have.


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## Blindasabat (Jan 16, 2007)

jayflash said:


> Now if only they'd upgrade the electronics so they're not running so close to their limits and would allow the use of LiIon cells. These issues have kept me from the T3 which I'd, otherwise, like to have.


I use 3.0V RCR123's (available at BatteryJunction too) in my T3 (and T1) with no issue. My regulated 3.7V RCR's don't fit anyway.


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## Martini (Jan 16, 2007)

MattK said:


> -TIROS is going away on every light, all lights will have clear mineral glass lense (AR)/reflectors.
> New Wattage Ratings for the whole line:
> X1 2W
> XO 4.8W
> ...


Wow. For the time being at least, Inova is dead to me. A lot of these changes don't make any sense. I can see using a power LED for the X1, but why up the output so much? The point of the X1 was long runtime on a common cell (or so I thought). And the T1 is now a 2 cell light? Something is not right, because the T1 and T2 cannot be the same light. I was really hoping to see Inova get some better electronics and maybe something that will take an 18650 (or any larger Li-ion). I wasn't expecting to see XR-Es yet, but I wasn't expecting K2s either. The price increases aren't going to make anybody happy. I suppose there will be a big grab for the old stock soon.


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## Raven (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanks for the info, and now a question. Does the new XO3 have more flood, than the old XO3?


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## MattK (Jan 16, 2007)

Like I said in my post - I'd take some of this with a grain of salt until the product actually arrives. I'm thinking the 2 x CR on the T1 has gotta be an error - 

The new XO3 definitely has more flood and my eyeballs say it's total output is higher as well. In many ways, and it's certainly an opinion, I think that the reflector lense combos generally lend themselves to a better rounded more general purpose product. If you're into big throw then it seems you're likely to be disappointed so if you want more TIROS Inova buy it soon.


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## MattK (Jan 16, 2007)

DBL POST DELETE


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## xm_8 (Jan 17, 2007)

More throw is the way to go for daily use. I welcome the changes. I have a X02 and it is nice but I prefer my flood beam lights.


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## xm_8 (Jan 17, 2007)

More flood is the way to go for daily use. I welcome the changes. I have a X02 and it is nice but I prefer my flood beam lights.

Has the output increased on the 24/7 or is it the same? Are there changes to the 24/7? Have the leds been upgraded?

The 24/7 was reviewed in 2003 at:

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/inova_24-7.htm

It got 4 out of 5 stars.


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## woodfluter (Jan 17, 2007)

I think ditching the TIROS would be a big, big mistake. Yes, I agree that if you are seeking a single light to serve all purposes, a reflector is better, but no light does everything well. Not even my HDS EDC. The tight beam, uniform center, long throw of the T-series was their best feature, perfect if you were searching for something at a distance or spotting wildlife.

And I agree that making the X1 into a high-output light is a mistake - this was supposed to be an alternative to Gerber's mangled mutation of the CMG IU!

I am also very interested in whether they are going to upgrade LEDs in the 24/7. I think this light was a "near miss" for Inova. Quite good as it is, but with a few changes it could have been outstanding. There is flat-out no easier light switch to operate in cold weather with gloved or mittened hands, by the way - recently confirmed that on a recent visit to Utah.

- Bill


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## The Shadow (Jan 17, 2007)

How about changing the model numbers as they change the lights? Now we'll have three X1s - the original one with the lens, the new one with the reflector, the newest one with high-output.... Come on Inova! How about X1b or X2? Personally I'd prefer a higher powered X1, or better yet, dual stage. Fully-regulated would be a bonus. I'd love to know availability, but can't get that from their "updated website" which is "coming soon!"


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## prof (Jan 17, 2007)

I will miss the optics. I often need more throw, but have only wished for more spill once--with an old-style X1.

Also, if you want flood, put a diffuser on. An F04 from surefire is a bit loose on my T1, but I can wrap a couple of my daughter's clear pony tail holders (clear rubber bands) around it and it fits great.


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## Thujone (Jan 17, 2007)

This just in from the department of redundancy department. 



woodfluter said:


> There is flat-out no easier light switch to operate in cold weather with gloved or mittened hands, by the way - recently confirmed that on a recent visit to Utah.
> 
> - Bill


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## carrot (Jan 17, 2007)

Hey MattK, you're not by any chance closing out the TIROS products at a discount, are you?


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## MattK (Jan 17, 2007)

No changes are noted for the 24/7 AFAIK.

I WISH THEY WOULD CHANGE THE PART NUMBERS!! These changes are a nightmare to us and lead to a year of confusion and complaints when people buy 'another Xwhatevah' and it isn't like the one they already had - no matter how clear our description is.

We won't be lowering our prices further - we're already selling at close to wholesale and I expect within a few months the TIROS lights would be selling at a premium if we still had them - if the X1 is any indicator of that sort of pattern. Prices will go up soon on all T-series models, 24/7's, X1's and some accessories to reflect new, higher pricing from Inova.


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## greenlight (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm still liking my original x1(s_I have several)... I kept hoping they would improve that style, but I'm not going to hold my breath anymore.


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## cchurchi (Jan 17, 2007)

I sold my T4 because it had almost no side spill. The throw was fantastic but I always felt like I was looking down a cardboard tube with blinders on. Using the light for walks at night was difficult because the hot spot was blinding and yet too small up close. The new T4 would be more appealing to me.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 17, 2007)

I would love to see a Cree XR-E or a Seoul P4 behind TIROS lenses, but these jarheads at INOVA decided to ditch their best feature... Time to stock up their old stuff.


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## MattK (Jan 17, 2007)

cchurchi - The new T4's are in stock whenever you're ready - we'll be selling them for $99.95 (~$95 with CPF coupon) which reflects the Inova price increase on them.


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## Lee1959 (Jan 17, 2007)

Such a shame to get rid of the TIROS, it is one of the things that made them so different than all the rest, and one of the very desirable attributes. Wish they would keep the old line in the X or T series and change the other.


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## MattK (Jan 17, 2007)

cchurchi - The new T4's are in stock whenever you're ready - we'll be selling them for $99.95 (~$95 with CPF coupon) which reflects the Inova price increase on them.


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## cchurchi (Jan 17, 2007)

I think the TIROS optic is great.... for me to poop on!



MattK - PM me a photo of the new T4. I only saw the old T4 on your site.


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## MattK (Jan 17, 2007)

cchurchi - no new pics yet as we don't have the new item listed yet. It looks EXACTLY the same except the trim ring is now anodized black (something LEO/tactical users had been requesting) and of course the lense is clear now and there's a reflector. The finish on the reflector would best be described as brushed - no doubt to smooth the beam.


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## thunderlight (Jan 18, 2007)

I like Inova products, but I believe they should go to a more modular construction so that when they came out with a new LED, it would not be necessary to get an entirely new flashlight. In fact, this should be the case for all manufacturers of expensive LED flashlights going forward. 


Moreover, the flashlight manufacturers and the LED manufacturers should develop standard interfaces to facilitate a smoother upgrade path as LED technology advances.


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## MattK (Jan 18, 2007)

I know from a CPF member standpoint that seems logical but for an upper-mid level consumer brand like Inova that approach doesn't make sense.

For a company like Surefire which sells at let's say 3 X the price of the Inova for similar performance (LED's only of course for purposes of this conversation) upgradability is more of an issue.

Most companies want to develop and sell new products, not upgrade legacy ones nor cater to the 1% market that CPF represents.

Inova must have the most sealed unit approach I've ever seen. I've seen very few mod threads about their products and I'm betting it's because of the difficulty in even opening one of the lights to begin with.


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## PAB (Jan 18, 2007)

I would have liked to see the cree in the X1. They could have just made it, say 50% brighter and darn near doubled the runtime at the same time. Well, maybe not doubled, but certainly a nice big increase.


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## MarNav1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Glad I bought my T1-2-3 when I did. But you never know, next year Tiros may be
back as some folk's have been saying optic's work better w Cree.


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## MattK (Jan 18, 2007)

Yeah the crees need a collimator IMO. I have 4 diff. Cree lights now and the collimated one is the best.


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## woodfluter (Jan 19, 2007)

cchurchi said:


> I sold my T4 because it had almost no side spill. The throw was fantastic but I always felt like I was looking down a cardboard tube with blinders on. Using the light for walks at night was difficult because the hot spot was blinding and yet too small up close. The new T4 would be more appealing to me.



I understand, and optics wouldn't be my first choice to illuminate a walk. But uses vary, and optics are undeniably best for some purposes. Consider a situation such as spying on the racoons that live in the woods behind my house. A flood beam with equal throw would alarm them even more, and my neighbors would wonder what was going on. Plus there is this less-obvious phenomenon, which I might illustrate with an experiment I have tried in various forms, many times:

Say I take either my SF L1 (optics) or Inova T3 and use it to light up said racoons. I can see them clearly. Now without turning off or moving the first light, say I *add* the high-level flood from a SF L2. Guess what - the racoons disappear. Like magic. Why? Because the flood has illuminated everything out to the position of the racoons such as grass, nearby trees, any objects that are closer and consequently reflect light more brightly - and my eyes have instantly adjusted by closing down the iris. And that is enough to make 'coons vanish.

I find that is exactly what happens with many bright, floody lights in similar situations. Enough light reaches a distant subject to see it, but too much light reaches everything nearer and I'm unable to see the subject at all.

Similar issues of discretion and illumination apply to searching under cars and in yards for my vagrant cat Robbie, for investigating noises and parked vehicles to see if yet another smash-and-grab has occurred in the neighborhood, and many other situations. Also, the spot-type lights are more effective than floods when there is more ambient light.

But for seeing where my feet are going, when I need a light for that at all, yes surely a flood. I have more of them than those with optics, but nothing replaces the optics for their intended purposes.

The apparent changes might be a good move for Inova from a marketing perspective, but I don't quite see the wisdom of ceasing to be about the only supplier of this useful type of light at that price point, so that they can instead make lights that are similar to many others. Just seems weird.

- Bill


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## dano (Jan 19, 2007)

Through batteryjunction, I just ordered a reflectorized T4. When it arrives, I'll compare it to the older TIROS version, and post here.

--dan


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## needforspeed (Jan 19, 2007)

I have a Tiros T4 and would like to hear your comments on the new version as compared to the old.


Thanks,

Bill
Massachusetts


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 19, 2007)

I'm sad to see all of the trios optics getting canned. I like my X03. I still use my X03 that I bought immediately when they first came out.
Now I haven't seen anything besides this thread on the new ones, so I have no room to say anything more... maybe they're spectacular and I'll like them a lot. We shall see.


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## MattK (Jan 19, 2007)

I played with old/new T4's side by side last night. The TIROS clearly throws a more defined beam further but the new light was slightly brighter and threw a cleaner, more generally usefull beam with more spill. Bottom line to me is that the new T4, despite the changes and price increase is a great light, especially when you consider the quality/value of a rechargeable li-ion, AC/DC, HAIII for <$100 from places like us.

dano - I'm working from home right now but I called in and made sure you got a new T4.


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## steve_vance (Jan 19, 2007)

xm_8 said:


> Are the new X and T series a flood beam?
> Are the new X and T series no longer throwers?
> Has the X5 been discontinued like the 24/7?



first question: no,just better spill beam than TIROS
second question: they still throw
third question: no


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## Cydonia (Jan 19, 2007)

It is interesting that Inova is abandoning their TIROS optic. It must be due to excessive costs of the TIROS. I have observed that bit by bit Inova has reduced the complexities of some of their products. The elimination of engraved lettering in the stainless end cap ring of their X1 and X5… to save costs I imagine. Then changing the X1 from a coated glass optic to a reflector. And now eliminating the TIROS for a reflector in their excellent T series. And raising the prices too. Am I the only one seeing a trend here, or is it all in my imagination? I think they are fighting to save manufacturing costs and stay competitive with the flood of Chinese lights. Just my 2 cents…


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## dark (Jan 19, 2007)

Yep, and Inova's "newest" offerings, offer an old LED(the K2 which sells at a substantial discount since it obsolete now). Inova could easily use the latest and greatest LEDs in its lights but the price would go up another $10-20. I think they are definitely feeling the squeeze.


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## pilou (Jan 19, 2007)

Martini said:


> The point of the X1 was long runtime on a common cell (or so I thought).



I think the X1 is just too dim, and more power with still a few hours of runtime would make a better balanced light. I hope they are not gluing the glass onto the body anymore. There is no mistaking of the pre 2007 reflectored X1 quality with the T series. Just a couple of days ago, I dropped my T1 onto a concetwe floor, bezel end first. It made a horrible noise as it hit the floor and then rolled under my car while making a terrible gritty noise. It stayed on, and when I picked it up, I noticed a very tiny barely visible nick.


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## spinkid (Jan 19, 2007)

I picked up my new reflectorized T4 from MattK at www.BatteryJunction.com . Matt and the guys are super cool. He showed me a bunch of lights and the teralux modules. It was really cool to be able to compare so many lights. This trip was a bit high on the wallet, but I have a feeling that with it so close to home its gonna get worse 

As for the new T4, the new beam is AWESOME in my opinion. It does have a nice hotspot..... but now has very acceptable amount of flood light. When I light up my garage about 80 feet away, the old T4 basically lights up only the garage. When I use my new T4, the garage gets lit up as well as a huge area on the way there. I compared it to my U2, and they are similar in flood stlye, the T4 has an actual hot spot at that distance, but the U2 does not. However, the U2 does appear to throw more light. Athough to me there is no real hotspot at that distance, my garage is really "lit up" with the U2. I don't think I will have time this weekend for pics, but I will try to get some for early next week if nobody posts them by then.

I forgot to mention that the black ring aound the bezel is a nice touch, the light looks nice. My only gripe is that the chargers (new and old) are not the same. The new T4 has the same idea for charging points, only larger and will not work with the old chagers. Its an improvement, so I can't really complain.


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## MattK (Jan 19, 2007)

Glad you enjoyed your visit today. 

The U2 is using the Lux V so it might have slightly higher output - Luxeon lottery rules till apply as well of course. 

I thik they changed the charge cradle because people had problems with it - we must get 3-4 complaints a week from new buyers about 'broken' cradles/flashlights because people don't understand how to correctly insert the light. We get the question often enough that we have a canned reply for it. Of course Inova could have resolved this with better instructions too. 

As you say, when it's all said and done the cradle redesign is an improvement because of the 'clip' thing they put in there which should end the problems new users have had.


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## copierguy_mobile (Jan 19, 2007)

Is the new T5 avilable yet? and does loosing the lens really make for a better light?

I have a couple of the smaller old style inovas and I really like the spot beam (I use them for inspecting copy machine innards). I have been considering the T5 for a while but I've held off because I wouldn't be using it for the same purpose (it would be a "behind the seat light" replacing a 3D Mag) and I'm not sure the small spot would be useful.

Any thoughts?


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## pilou (Jan 19, 2007)

So when are all these updated Inovas going to be listed on the site?


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## MattK (Jan 19, 2007)

No new T5's yet - just T4 and and XO3's so far. I expect the T5's will be optically identical to the T4 ala last years model.

Inova hasn't been shipping T5's for like a month so we're expecting the next shipment to be new T5's - hopefully 1-2 weeks.

pilou - We'll work on it shortly - we had a backlog of new items to add that we needed to get listed first. In the meantime you're welcome to place an order for the current T4 on the website, add a note regarding the 2007 model T4 in the 'notes to merchant' field of the checkout AND send me an EMAIL and I'll make sure you get a new one. They do cost ~$5 more so you'll be billed the extra $5 afterwards as well.


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## 2hotford (Jan 19, 2007)

MattK said:


> Glad you enjoyed your visit today.
> 
> The U2 is using the Lux V so it might have slightly higher output - Luxeon lottery rules till apply as well of course.
> 
> ...


 
May I ask what the "canned reply" was? I had a T4 and had issues with the cradle. Most of the time, I had no problems then a couple of times, the T4 was placed in the cradle, the light turned green and all was well. Then suddenly in the middle of the night, the cradle just all on its own, started blinking blue! It was so bright that when I first woke up I thought someone was strobing a light in my window! :laughing:

Tim


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## MattK (Jan 19, 2007)

Sure - copy/paste - the typical complaint is blinking blue LED.

_Sorry to hear that you're having a problem with your Inova T4.

We've found that the majority of complaints stem from the light not being placed into the charger properly.

The best way to mount the T4 into the charger is to place the handle through the cradle first, and then drag back until the connection is made (see the diagram in your instruction sheet). You should hear a click and the flashlight will feel secure and tight in the cradle. The blue LED should remain constant and not blink. Blinking could indicate that a secure connection has not been made.

Please try this and let me know if it doesn't work still properly.
_


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## JAS (Jan 19, 2007)

If I get a new T4 will it work with my old T4s charger? I assume that it will, but you know what happens when you assume.


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## MattK (Jan 19, 2007)

JAS - No, it will not work with your old charger though I think your AC/DC adapters will work just fine the cradle has been changed - improved to make positive contact easier. Good thing you asked, eh? 

Okay - you guys made me do it. Here's the order link for the new 2007 T4 http://www.batteryjunction.com/t4.html 

I'll have the webmaster do the new XO3 next week if I don't get to it myself this weekend.


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## lumenal (Jan 20, 2007)

Nice Matt - very nice. My Inovas are some of my most prized flashlights. I am another fan of the TIROS and hate to see them go.

I don't have the T4 as of yet.  The new one looks promising. Any chance of a shot of the "business end" to check out that new reflector?


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## MattK (Jan 20, 2007)

lumenal- Definitely - but I can't tell you when. 

We still have the TIROS version in stock so it's not too late if you prefer it.


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## xm_8 (Jan 20, 2007)

Any word on the new T1?


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## lumenal (Jan 20, 2007)

MattK said:


> lumenal- Definitely - but I can't tell you when.
> 
> We still have the TIROS version in stock so it's not too late if you prefer it.


 
MattK - Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'd like to check out / read reviews and more info on the new reflectored versions though; as I do have 3 various Inovas with the optic.


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## woodrow (Jan 20, 2007)

Thanks for the news everyone! I bought a t4 and a t5 when they came out. Super tough lights...but I HATE the old trios optics. I cannot wait to buy a new t5 when they come in. Please keep us posted.


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## MattK (Jan 21, 2007)

Just XO3 and T4's right now. I'll contniue to update to this thread as we get the new lights in without TIROS.


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## dano (Jan 22, 2007)

Here's a brief comparison:

New T4: reflector, K2 LED, black bexel ring. Li-Ion cell is not one sided; both terminals are on the positive side of the cell (the same set-up that Streamlight uses in the Stinger and Strion. The Strion Li-Ion cell is a bit longer than Inova's, but works in the new version T4). The tail cap has a rubber donut that looks like it will act as a shock absorbtion device for the cell.

Redesigned charger, looks to be in the area where the light contacts the cradle. The new charger IS NOT compatible with the original T4. Unfortunately, even with this new set-up, I still get the blinking blue LED charger issue.

Output: Overall output is excellent. Bright center with good surrounding light diffusion. The reflector is almost a matte aluminum, or very lightly stipled. It's not a mirriored reflector.


--dan


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## MattK (Jan 22, 2007)

Heya Dan,

I've been describing the reflector finish as 'brushed.'

What's with the Thor rune avatar? Any backstory to that?


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## TacticalGrilling (Jan 23, 2007)

The new reflectors may look brushed, but it is actually the effects of being a diamond-turned chunk of Al. No finish, no polish, just turned with a diamond cutting surface. My T4's both seem to have the same amount of throw, but the reflector brings quite a bit of the flood with it, too. Really diggin it so far.

Be Safe, Grill Tactical.

-Nick
TacticalGrilling.com


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## cratz2 (Jan 23, 2007)

Any rought estimate on when the new X1 will be shipping?

1st quarter?

2nd quarter?


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## MattK (Jan 23, 2007)

Within days is my guess.


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## BBL (Jan 23, 2007)

are the charging terminals on the new T4 finally water resistant?


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## fstuff (Jan 23, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> Any rought estimate on when the new X1 will be shipping?
> 
> 1st quarter?
> 
> 2nd quarter?


 
new new X1 is 2W LED bulb.

What was the old new X1 (from *March 2006)?*


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## Illum (Jan 23, 2007)

fstuff said:


> new new X1 is 2W LED bulb.
> 
> What was the old new X1 (from *March 2006)?*



5mm led

I doubt you can power a "2W LED bulb" with an AA battery...


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## woodasptim (Jan 23, 2007)

Illum_the_nation said:


> 5mm led
> 
> I doubt you can power a "2W LED bulb" with an AA battery...






L1T is a 3watt Lux


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## PAB (Jan 23, 2007)

woodasptim said:


> L1T is a 3watt Lux


Almost. L1T is a lux 3 and could theoretically be run at 3 watts, but it's run closer to two watts than three.


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## cratz2 (Jan 24, 2007)

fstuff said:


> new new X1 is 2W LED bulb.
> 
> What was the old new X1 (from *March 2006)?*



Since they aren't creative enough to come up with proper new names, I guess we're calling them:

Old style: Moon beam, zero spill 5mm LED
New style: 5mm Nichia CS with a reflector rather than a lens
New new style: Some type of Lux-ish LED with better brightness, shorter runtime, and I assue a step up in cost.

Still, I can't wait.


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## chevrofreak (Jan 25, 2007)

MattK said:


> I'm going to hate myself for even posting this but here's the deal for Inova 2007:
> 
> Some of this should be taken with a grain of salt as I've already received 2007 product that wasn't as listed on the 2007 product modification sheet.
> 
> ...




Sounds to me like they went with the wrong LED line. At those wattage levels the runtimes are going to drop drastically. I bet that was an expensive redesign that they're going to have to do over again.


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## fstuff (Jan 25, 2007)

MattK said:


> Within days is my guess.


 
How much will the X1 v3 cost?


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## pilou (Jan 25, 2007)

chevrofreak said:


> Sounds to me like they went with the wrong LED line. At those wattage levels the runtimes are going to drop drastically. I bet that was an expensive redesign that they're going to have to do over again.



Or maybe their marketing department got a little "creative" with the numbers


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## MattK (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm pretty confident the 7W numbers are based upon the max spec of the K2 LED.

I'm not in the office right now but X1 cost is up - guessing ~10%.

The K2 is still a great product and the best LED avail at consistent production volumes and tint levels and bins. Yes, the Cree is more efficient but realize that NO production mfr is using them yet - sure, surefire has ANNOUNCED new product but it isn't here yet. If they were going to make an improvement thr K2 was really their only choice and outside of CPF Luxeon still carries a lot more weight - they are the xerox/kleenex etc of the business.


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## Ty_Bower (Jan 25, 2007)

Illum_the_nation said:


> so the new x1 will use a luxeon?


I'd buy another X1 if it had a Luxeon in it. I still think my original 1st gen. X1 is cute, with the spot lens and all.


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## northjames (Jan 26, 2007)

MattK, is there any word on when the new T3 will be out?


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## MattK (Jan 26, 2007)

No - and if there was I won't believe them until they're in my hands - their track record at meeting ship dates sucks. 

Perfect example, did I get my MUCH NEEDED X1 shipment today? No. 

That said, I think it's just a matter of weeks at this point.


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## Daylo (Jan 28, 2007)

Does anyone know if the new X03 will have a HAIII Black lense ring or retain the stainless one?


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## dark (Jan 28, 2007)

New bolt lights popped up on one of the websites I buy Inova's from. No pictures unfortunately, but here are the prices






*0* quantity in stock for all 3

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*INVBLT-2A *[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]INOVA BOLT WHITE LED 3.8W GRAPHITE[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$25.52[/font] 
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*INVBLT-2L *[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]INOVA BOLT WHITE LED 4.6W GRAPHITE[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$31.69[/font] 
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*INVBLT-3A *[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]INOVA BOLT WHITE LED 2W GRAPHITE[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$15.52[/font]



Also, I noticed the graphite part in the description. I wonder if that's even a color or maybe what the light is made of...

2L=Lithium battery type
2A=AA battery type
3A=AAA battery type

Looks like MattK's info is starting to materilize.


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## MattK (Jan 30, 2007)

Daylo - X-series still have the SS trim ring - at least the XO3's do.

dark - The Bolts are AL. I haven't seen them but a buddy of mine saw them at SHOT and filled me in. Think Radiant in AL that looks like a bolt. From the 2007 sheet, "the Bolt features a hard coat anodized graphite finish with non-slip rubber grip and a stay in place octagonal shape..."

That pricing seems EXTREMELY low, I'm betting it never sees the light of day when inventory starts to ship.


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## Timdog68 (Jan 30, 2007)

The new T1 is claiming a 85 Lumen led and 1.5 hour burntime

The new T2 has the flared style head and also claims a 85 lumen led and "upto 5 hour runtime"?

They both use 2) cr123 batteries so what gives?
Does the new T2 design house more electronics to give it triple the run time or is this B.S.?
They both say the lumen ratings are per the LED specs. but dont say they actually put out that level?

The old T2 was 40 lumens and 5 hours so they doubled the lumens with a new LED but have the same runtime?

I am very interested in a review/seeing a new T2.


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## Cydonia (Jan 30, 2007)

I too would like to know the truth about the new T2, just out of curiosity, and to compare to the old T2 (which is my avatar picture I made).
It really is hard to believe they doubled the output but retained the runtime. Not without Cree they wouldn't :laughing: The exaggerated run times just drive me crazy!


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## MattK (Jan 30, 2007)

The T1 and T2 are tuned differently. The T2 is being tuned for runtime while the T1 is being tuned for output. If you read more carefully I believe it says '85 limen LED' not 85 lumen output/flashlight - think Mag '3W LED' - yah it uses a LuxIII but its driven at 1.5W.

I spoke with my source at Inova today - here's some more info to chew on:
New T1 will be out in ~2-3 weeks. Same size. 2X CR123A confirmed. Think pocket rocket.
New T2 will be ~3-4 weeks. Flared head - like new XO style. tuned for runtime.
New T3 will is going to start shipping now. 3 cells, K2 at ~850ma.
New T4 is obviously shipping now. 
New T5 will ship ~ March.

New X1's are still ~ 4-6 weeks out. 
XO - new release from early 06 carries over.
XO3 - Shipping now - I really need to get them listed...


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## northjames (Jan 30, 2007)

MattK, I am interested in the T3, I wear a Tiros one on my duty belt.

Is it the same size as the old T3 (will it fit in the same belt pouch)?

Lumens? Runtime? They are still regulated, right?

Thanks!


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## flashy bazook (Jan 30, 2007)

Any info yet on what changes (if any) to T5? If they use 3 cells and a K2 in T3, what does that leave for the T5?

The old T3 had 2 cells, and it was the T5 that had the 3 cells. So not sure where that leaves the new T5; it seems to lack a niche.


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## pilou (Jan 30, 2007)

MattK said:


> New T1 will be out in ~2-3 weeks. Same size. 2X CR123A confirmed. Think pocket rocket..


 
I think that was a good move. The current T1 is huge compared to a single CR123 cell. I am sure they were able to squeeze one more cell in the T1 body without even changing its dimensions. Wasted space in a light is a horrible thing. Evry bit of available space should be stuffed with cells :laughing:


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## MattK (Jan 30, 2007)

northjames - My notes from today say size unchanged but until I see it...I think claimed lumens are now 100, not sure of runtime - should have them within days so will post more when I know it.

flashy bazook  - T5 is going to be 3 cells and K2 - if I understand correctly T5's run at a higher current (1.1A) and IIRC have more select LED's - resulting in higher output. The niche is as it was - law eforcement - thus the side button switch properly placed for ring-ringer activation - one of the most well designed switches ever according to the LEO's that visit us.

pilou - Agreed, I'm thinking the new T1 might be the hot ticket - along with the T4 which I'll always love.

AFAIK all lights are regulated. From my conversastion today I was left with the impression that there may even be some improvements in the regulation.


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## Timdog68 (Jan 31, 2007)

As I stated in my post above ,I understand they are saying 85 lumen led per led specs but what I was trying to get across is that it is useless info.
Why cant they simply let me know the actuall output.
I love my x5 but this company is run very badly from a marketing standpoint.
They have an outdated web page and wont give comparible specs.
At least if they tell me the T2 puts out 50 lumens and the T1 puts out 80 lumens I have something to work with.
Instead I must wait for somebody to run a test on these to get some info. that actually helps me make my decision.
I know plenty of companies exagerate the outputs and some are accurate but not offering an output is lame.
Maybe I am so frustrated becuase I think thay have an awesome design at a very reasonable price and I believe the lack of marketing savy will be thier downfall one day.


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## MattK (Jan 31, 2007)

I imagine there's a few issues at work;
1 - Marketing - rating by bulb lumens is common to pretty much everyone but Surefire.
2 - Even if they did use a lumensphere to rate it accordingly what number should they use? Luxeon lottery means the number would never be accurate and there'd be potential liability if a light wasn't up to the measured output. Also, from what I've read different LS's can give different ratings.
3 - I totally agree regarding the website and have it on good authority that it is being addressed and that we should expect and update in 30-45 days.

I agree that Inova can be frustrating from a marketing standpoint but they do make a great product at a great price and they're constantly backordered so I won't be predicting any downfalls so long as the flood of quality products continues unabated.


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## pilou (Jan 31, 2007)

I think coming hard on INOVA for their lumens ratings isn't all that straightforward. There are different ways of doing these ratings, and in my opinion, as long as they are more or less consistent within their own line, that's fine.

Notice how their run time estimates, something far more easy to standardize, seem to be right on the money.


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## flashy bazook (Jan 31, 2007)

well, I like Inova and its products, so do not mean to bash their new line, especially as we haven't even seen it or tested it yet.

leaving the issue of which LED aside as well (so not to complain that they have not adopted the cree line, and accepting for the moment that the K2 luxeon is still a pretty darn good product, beating to pulp most incans).

it still seems like they are dropping the ball a bit with their new line: clearly, the T1 and the T2, as well as the T3 together with the T5 are redundant products: they should have had a simple two-stage design for the T1 plus T2 (one setting to get high output, the other the long runtime), and the same for the T3 plus T5. 

in other words, T1 and T2 have the same number of cells (batteries), and form-factors, with the only difference being a choice in how hard to drive the light. This is exactly what a simple two-stage circuit could do. Same comment for T3/T5.

FInally, I don't think that choosing a higher bin for the higher product is enough to differentiate, they should choose an excellent bin for all their products.

A poster recently wondered whether Inova was feeling the heat on the cost side from Chinese products and asked the question whether we would observe the results in the products. I wouldn't go as far as to accept this line of thought, but do wonder if some of the choices may not be influenced, to some degree.


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## Blindasabat (Jan 31, 2007)

I agree.


flashy bazook said:


> well, I like Inova and its products, so do not mean to bash their new line, especially as we haven't even seen it or tested it yet.
> leaving the issue of which LED aside as well (so not to complain that they have not adopted the cree line, and accepting for the moment that the K2 luxeon is still a pretty darn good product, beating to pulp most incans).


 I like them too, but it is still a litte disappointing not to have the new gen LEDs, and will hurt CPF sales since we know we have more choices here. But to have a fully developed (reliable and LE ready) production line of out at this time with new LEDs would have been amazing. I'm just not a fan of the K2. I was in on a pre-order, but passed on the chance to get them for $3.45 each when I learned the specs.



flashy bazook said:


> ...the T1 and the T2, as well as the T3 together with the T5 are redundant products: they should have had a simple two-stage design for the T1 plus T2 (one setting to get high output, the other the long runtime), and the same for the T3 plus T5.
> in other words, T1 and T2 have the same number of cells (batteries), and form-factors, with the only difference being a choice in how hard to drive the light. This is exactly what a simple two-stage circuit could do. Same comment for T3/T5.


I would get a multi-level Inova T-series in an instant, but law enforcement & military tactical users need a certain simplicity that multi-stage lights have a hard time meeting. Meaning, when they press the button, they want ON High, NOW with no fiddling. Reference the LE HDS.


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## MattK (Jan 31, 2007)

I've been bugging my contact at Inova to do multi-level so I'm definitely on the same page - at least on 1-2 of the T line product.

Inova is not going Cree. They get great product from Luxeon and believe their future lies there and likely with the forthcoming Luxeon product.

FYI the new T3's are going to land here tomorrow - we'll try to get them listed ASAP along with the 07 XO3's that have been here for a week 

Inova is a 'high end' mainstream product. They don't need to be on the bleeding edge and as I pointed out earlier they're already selling beyond their production capacity. 

The T1 T2 and T3 aren't necessarily repetive - the T1 and T3 are biased for high output and the T2 for long runtimes. The T1 will be the small straight tube design, the T2 will have the XO sized body/flared head and IIRC the new T3 adds a third cell for higher output/longer runtime in the same sized body as used previously.


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## pilou (Jan 31, 2007)

One thing I can vouch for the T series based on the T1 I own: they seem to be build to take some serious abuse and I think they are gun recoil shock proof.

Multilevel lights may not be as able to take abuse, so I imagine these T's will remain single level, but I do agree that Inova should come up with a multi-level line.


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## flashy bazook (Jan 31, 2007)

you all make good points. Just to clarify, I was not even suggesting multi-level controls. Only a TWO-STAGE control.

One push you get the HIGH beam, so the cops and the tacticals are happy. But a second push gives you the LOW, so you can get the long runtime.

That's all, is it that much to ask?

And you consolidate the T1/T2, and the T3/T5 lines, and you have cracking good flashlights. Personally I would have gotten one of those over most competitors for that particular function.


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## Daylo (Jan 31, 2007)

Are the new X03s a three cell light like the new T3s?


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## MattK (Feb 1, 2007)

Daylo - heh, I had to go look at one - 2 cell.


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## asbenson (Feb 1, 2007)

So whats the deal with the new t4. I am disappointed that the TIROS is gone.

What I am wondering is this though. The head on the t4 seems to be sealed. You can no longer take the lens off to replace it. Are they perhaps going to make a head with the TIROS optics in it so it can be switched out for those of us who prefer the TIROS versus the reflector.


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## MattK (Feb 1, 2007)

Well I still have all the lights in stock in TIROS for now. 

No way you'll be able to change out the reflector for TIROS - would seem to be unpossible. If you want a TIROS T4 now is the time.

Have you seen the beamshots of the new T4? I think the new light is hugely improved.


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## asbenson (Feb 1, 2007)

I have the new t4. I am not that impressed with it. Yeah it runs a long time and at a fairly constant brightness but i wanted the defined focused beam. I am looking to trade someone for an old one that is new. Make sense?


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## PhantomPhoton (Feb 1, 2007)

Personally I'm not all that tempted to buy any of the new inovas. Perhaps there will be a gem in this new batch and I'll find a sale and pick one up, but beyond that I've seen atm excites me.
As I commented earlier its a shame to see the trios go. I know some people absolutely hated them, but I would have liked Inova to keep at least one product with a nice trios for us weirdos. Perhaps next year they'll bring it back on a model or two so both sides can be happy.


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## The Shadow (Feb 3, 2007)

MattK said:


> The Bolts are AL. I haven't seen them but a buddy of mine saw them at SHOT and filled me in. Think Radiant in AL that looks like a bolt. From the 2007 sheet, "the Bolt features a hard coat anodized graphite finish with non-slip rubber grip and a stay in place octagonal shape..."



Those bolts sound pretty cool! I'd love to see one. Anyone got any pics from SHOT?

With these wattages, what kind of LED are they using? K2?


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## MattK (Feb 3, 2007)

Yes, K2's across the board.


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## pilou (Feb 5, 2007)

Just a side comment: it used to be that CPFers mostly criticized Inova for having TIROS. Now that it is gone and has been replaced by a reflector, their dropping of TIROS is benig lamented :laughing:


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## chevrofreak (Feb 5, 2007)

pilou said:


> Just a side comment: it used to be that CPFers mostly criticized Inova for having TIROS. Now that it is gone and has been replaced by a reflector, their dropping of TIROS is benig lamented :laughing:



Not by me. I love reflectors.


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## The Shadow (Feb 6, 2007)

The Shadow said:


> Those bolts sound pretty cool! I'd love to see one. Anyone got any pics from SHOT?



I found some pics! Check out:
http://www.scottcountry.co.uk/products_detail.asp?productID=1882

No mention of any real specs. I'd like to know how regulated they are. There's also a link to the new X1, but it looks like they used the old photo and specs.

These bolts definitely look different. Opinions?


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## MattK (Feb 6, 2007)

Good find. Those specs are straight from the 2007 Inova product modifications and price book. The regulation, I am told, is as good or better than ever. Unless QB reviews them we'll never really know. 

Bolts - not as ugly and useless as Radiants. Hopefully they'll have the fit/finish we expect from Inova and be a better value line than the Radiants were.


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## The Shadow (Feb 7, 2007)

MattK said:


> Unless QB reviews them we'll never really know.



I miss QB's reviews too, but totally understand why he stopped. His site became free advertising for any light that hit the market (crappy ones included). I'm glad he's become selective of any future reviews he does. I've seen a few others here at CPF that are able to do runtime charts - hopefully someone will pick up these new lights and test that updated regulation.

Any ETA on the bolts and new X1?


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## pilou (Feb 7, 2007)

It says "pattented optics" Do the bolts have TIROS?


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## orbital (Feb 8, 2007)

For the people who are slamming Inova;
have you tested their new line before giving an opinion?
The new *07 T3 is simply a fantastic light!, great color and a flawless beam. Unless you've actually held one of these in your hand and fired it up......

Luxeon and CREE is just like Intel and AMD, constant refinement.


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## Blindasabat (Feb 8, 2007)

Can't wait to see the new X1, T1, and T2. The X1 and T1 both seem to be the same size as before, but the T1 fits a whole extra battery in place of the Tiros. It may be one of the smallest and toughest 2xCR123 Luxeon lights on the market (X5 is still the smallest and very tough), and still a relatively good buy. Of course, they'd be way better with Cree.

The T2 with lower drive current would be a prime candidate for freeze-popping with a Cree for brighter *and* still have long life.


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## cratz2 (Feb 8, 2007)

Blindasabat said:


> Can't wait to see the new X1, T1, and T2. The X1 and T1 both seem to be the same size as before, but the X1 fits a whole extra battery in place of the Tiros. It may be one of the smallest and toughest 2xCR123 Luxeon lights on the market (X5 is still the smallest and very tough), and still a relatively good buy. Of course, they'd be way better with Cree.
> 
> The T2 with lower drive current would be a prime candidate for freeze-popping with a Cree for brighter *and* still have long life.



You mean the T1 fits an extra battery... right?

I haven't been following this too closely, but I'm really looking forward to the new X1.


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## pilou (Feb 8, 2007)

It seems like the SS bezel was dropped not on just the T4/T5, but on the entire T-series. I understand it was dropped because of preferences by law enforcement users, but I kind of liked it and don't quite see why it was dropped on the smaller lights. It's obiously no biggy though.

I checked out the UK link and there are some specs that don't make sense to me. Both the T1 and T2 are rated at 4.8W and have 2 CR123s, but the T1 has a shorter "effective range" and much shorter burn time. The shorter burn time implies higher output than the T2, but then why the shorter range? Is the new T1 a flooder whereas the new T2 is a thrower?

I also noticed that the T3 is longer than the old one. To me, it looks like the new T2 with its flared head is like the older T3, and the new T3 with 3 batteries is like the older T5 with a tail switch. Of course, the specs listed on that site could all be wrong :lolsign:


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## Blindasabat (Feb 8, 2007)

Good catch, original post corrected!


cratz2 said:


> You mean the T1 fits an extra battery... right?


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## JML (Feb 8, 2007)

Just received my new 2007 T3 today, from BatteryJunction. Comparing it to the original TIROS model, the new one has a much smoother and wider beam. The reflector model's sidespill is quite useful, especially indoors or for walking outdoors. But the TIROS model does throw a more defined hotspot, further, than does the reflector model. 

The TIROS beam is slightly bluish on mine at the outer edges of the central hotspot, with the typical color artifacts in the spill rings (true for my X03, too). The T3 reflector's beam color is warm white, slightly creamy in color (it doesn't scream white, and seems to lack the bluish tones, which is fine with me). Maybe it's the Luxeon lottery, but it's a little more yellowish than the Lux III in my Fenix P1. Like my U2 on the next-to-highest level. Whiter than the color of my reflector model X0. Much whiter than any Lux I in my collection, or old Lux V lights.

The new T3 model does get quite warm very quickly (haven't had it on long enough to see just how hot it gets...). The TIROS model doesn't get warm that fast. The reflector is extremely nicely finished, and there are no dust particles or fingerprints in the sealed head! 

Exactly the same size as the old one. Switch feels the same. Heavier, due to the third battery. The black bezel differentiates this new model from the TIROS light's stainless bezel, and unfortunately there are three differently toned markings on the bezel's front from where it may have rested on an anodizing rack (the marks don't come off with Flitz). There are also four extremely tiny pin marks on the bezel, right at the lens, equally spaced around the circumference (they don't go through the bezel). Wonder what they're for (not found on the old model)...

Overall, probably the light in my collection that I'd grab first if going outdoors at night for a walk, or the one I'd reach for first if I needed to find something in the basement.


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## MattK (Feb 8, 2007)

Some answers:

Mulitiple output is under consideration. No time frames no promises. Being investigated.


While both the T1 and T2 will be 2 cell lights now the new T2 will have a flared head, like an XO body basically and will be driven at lower current. More all purpose with the T1 being the pocket rocket and retaining it's currrent footprint. The T2 will throw further given it's larger reflector area and the T1 will be floodier.

Regarding wattage and drive currents. Many of the numbers in my original post regarding this, while coming from Inova, bear no resemblance to reality apparently. My understanding is that the T1 will have a choice emitter and be driven ~20% harder than a T2. So it's the runtime/brightness trade off, very similar to what Surfire does ala E1l L1 E2L L2 etc.

The Bolts are flated for release, 'any day now'. The new X1's are expected within 3-4 weeks.

As JML points out the size of the T3 is totally unchamged. The extra cell goes where the TIROS went basically. The new T3 runs at like a 15-25% higher current so getting warm faster isn't surprising. JML you have some good eyes, I didn't even notice those 'pin marks' until you pointed them out! We've got the bezel off on the demo here and the lense isn't removable, not easily at least, and looking at the bezel while removed I still have no idea what those marks are. Thanks for your patronage BTW!!


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## pilou (Feb 8, 2007)

Perhaps the marks are pin marks used to hold the bezel during anodization?


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## nnmnu (Feb 14, 2007)

any more info on the new X1?


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## cratz2 (Feb 14, 2007)

I think he said the X1s weren't due out for another 3 weeks or so.


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## copierguy_mobile (Feb 23, 2007)

Any word on when the new T5 will be available?


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## MattK (Feb 23, 2007)

X1's should be out in the next 1-2 weeks.

T1 & T2's are any day now.

T5's are still probably a month out.


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## Lumenation (Feb 23, 2007)

The X1's are going to be 1AA? And what kind of LED and how bright?


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## MattK (Feb 23, 2007)

Yes, still 1 AA. They categorically refused to identify the emitter when I asked - trade secret for now.


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## Lumenation (Feb 23, 2007)

I sure do love my X1 with a reflector. I just ordered the Lumapower M1 from you (MattK), and now it looks like more business with the new X1's right around the corner. What kind of price can we expect, and what body colors will there be?


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## cratz2 (Feb 23, 2007)

Sweet. I can't wait to see what they have going for the new X1. I'm in for one regardless of what it is though.


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## ginaz (Feb 24, 2007)

Matt, do you have any info as to the drive levels on the various models? i thought i heard mention that the T3 was at 850ma?


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## Lumenation (Feb 24, 2007)

What is the price on the X1 going to be?


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## MattK (Feb 24, 2007)

Hi guys - X1 pricing went up a little bit. Our price is already absurdly low (14.95) so we'll need to raise it a little but still under $17.

ginaz - I don't have my notes here but IIRC 850 is right for the T3 - I think I've posted it here somewhere...


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## Bomo (Feb 24, 2007)

I'm really curious to see what changes have been made to the X1. I have the reflectored version and it has always been one of my favorite lights for inside use.


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## cratz2 (Feb 24, 2007)

I'm almost always the optomist, but I can't imagine the X1 will stay under $20 AND have a Luxeon emitter.

Again, I'll get at least one regardless of what it is, but I hope it's not something funky like a Jupiter with a spot beam wider than the original X1 or something.


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## jayflash (Feb 24, 2007)

Hey, MattK. The new T3 2007 K2 shows the same 6.25" length as the original T3. The K2 version claims three CR 123 cells vs two for the old T3. Have the guts been shortened to accommodate the extra cell or are the spec in error? 

They both claim 250' effective use. Does the 2007/K2 have greater flood.


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## MattK (Feb 24, 2007)

T3 length is the same - the TIROS optic is really long so removing it made room for the 3rd cell.

The 2007 version definitely has more flood. I can't speak to the '250 effective, I always take that with a grain of salt.


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## jayflash (Feb 24, 2007)

Thanks for your reply Matt. Is the driver regulated and will a pair of 17500 LiIons work? I'd assume, yes, to both ?? but one never knows.

Thanks again.


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## MattK (Feb 24, 2007)

It's definitely regulated but I have no idea about the 17500's - though I do suspect they'd work.


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## Casual Flashlight User (Feb 24, 2007)

MattK said:


> It's definitely regulated but I have no idea about the 17500's - though I do suspect they'd work.


 
Matt, another poster has been using the new T3 with 2x17500's to good effect.





I wasn't going to buy any more Inova's, mainly due to their inability to use rechargables (I love the build and quality).

Obviously the info I've given above puts a diferent complexion on things.


CFU


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## Boo Radley (Feb 24, 2007)

MattK said:


> X1's should be out in the next 1-2 weeks.
> 
> T1 & T2's are any day now.
> 
> T5's are still probably a month out.



MattK:

Could you let me know when the 2007 T1 hits your showroom. I'd be interested in picking up the T1 as well as 2007 T2 (or maybe T4 instead, still up in the air over that one).

Boo


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## lightinsky (Feb 24, 2007)

If the new inova T3 takes 3 batteries then how come the new inova x03 reflectored version at target takes only 2 batteries and is the same length. I opended to see if that was true. Confused if both have reflectors and are the same size but something doesn't add up.


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## Casual Flashlight User (Feb 24, 2007)

The XO3 is shorter than the T3.


CFU


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## Illum (Feb 24, 2007)

lightinsky said:


> If the new inova T3 takes 3 batteries then how come the new inova x03 reflectored version at target takes only 2 batteries and is the same length.



the TIROS is alot longer than the reflector and for the XO3's designed to use 2 cells made their heatsink a bit thicker...thats my theory


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## pilou (Feb 24, 2007)

lightinsky said:


> If the new inova T3 takes 3 batteries then how come the new inova x03 reflectored version at target ...


 
Is it already being sold at Target???


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## parnass (Feb 24, 2007)

pilou said:


> Is it already being sold at Target???



My local Target store has been displaying the new, reflectored version XO3 for the past few weeks.


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## OCEANBEAMER (Feb 25, 2007)

cratz2 said:


> I'm almost always the optomist, but I can't imagine the X1 will stay under $20 AND have a Luxeon emitter.
> 
> Again, I'll get at least one regardless of what it is, but I hope it's not something funky like a Jupiter with a spot beam wider than the original X1 or something.


 Well seems like Inova went with luxeon K-2 acrossthe board,no cree's, go to www.scottcountry .co.uk/ and click on Ianova, they show the "new" high powered 2 watt x1 and the price is $49. us with value added tax,,,can't rememer if it's 15-20% but that puts their price at around$39-$42. us approximately....don't know how that will compare to us distributers prices,,,hope it's lower on this side of the pond...........shows 12 hours runtime and 65 ft throw..........


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## jefffoxsr (Feb 25, 2007)

I love my Inova lights, but since I bought the Fenix lights I haven't touched the Inovas.

Why would anyone want to buy the 2007 Inovas instead of the Fenix?
The Fenix is brighter and runs longer lumens for lumens. 
The Fenix is smaller too.

If there you can give me any reasons to use an Inova light over a Fenix, then I will by the 2007 models since I am thoroughly addicted.

Thanks for the education.


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## cratz2 (Feb 25, 2007)

OCEANBEAMER said:


> Well seems like Inova went with luxeon K-2 acrossthe board,no cree's, go to www.scottcountry .co.uk/ and click on Ianova, they show the "new" high powered 2 watt x1 and the price is $49. us with value added tax,,,can't rememer if it's 15-20% but that puts their price at around$39-$42. us approximately....don't know how that will compare to us distributers prices,,,hope it's lower on this side of the pond...........shows 12 hours runtime and 65 ft throw..........



Yeah, I saw that. But lighs are SO much more expensive over in Europe. I'd imagine the X1 will be $25 to $30 at Target and maybe $20 to $25 at BatteryJunction.

On the same British site, Microlights are listed at £9.95 while they are about $7 or $8 here. And the X5 is listed at £49.95 while they are $35 to $40 here.


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## MattK (Feb 25, 2007)

We already have the new XO3's as well - we just haven't listed them seperately yet. Frankly we have a bunch of TIROS units in stock I wanted to sell first.

New X1's from us will just be $1-2 more than the current model. AFAIK they aren't available anywhere yet.


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## pilou (Feb 25, 2007)

jefffoxsr said:


> Why would anyone want to buy the 2007 Inovas instead of the Fenix?
> The Fenix is brighter and runs longer lumens for lumens.
> The Fenix is smaller too.


 
Inova has no equivalent to the P1 series, so it's Fenix all the way for that one. But while even the rest of their lines aren't one-to-one comparable, Inova build quality is many notches above. Try droping the larger Fenixes from six feet high onto concrete floors ... a few times. Not even a dent on my T1. My L2p wouldn't fare as well. To give you an idea of the toughness of the T series, they are designed to sustain gun recoil, so you can imagine that the internals are build accordingly.

If you absolutely need 2-AA size, then again, it's Fenix. But the Cree Fenixes are a lot more expensive than the Inova T1 or T2. And aside from the LP series, all the other Fenixes have weird shape bodies. They are simply ugly. Their switches are flimsy in comparison too. Etc. I think there is room for both lights, but they are designed with very different goals in mind. The Inovas may not have the latest LEDs, but they are much tougher and should last longer than any Fenix. Fenix, on the other hand offers the latest LEDs, multi-level, etc..


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## jefffoxsr (Feb 25, 2007)

Pilou,
Thanks for the information, it was very helpful.


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## xm_8 (Feb 25, 2007)

The T1 is the best for edc. I have a tiros T2 and it is too long for edc. X1 is the right size for edc but it doesn't have the output of a T1. How does the new T1 compare to the old tiros T1? Lumens? Runtime?


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## pilou (Feb 25, 2007)

Based purely on Matt's previous posts, the new T1 is supposed to have two CR123s instead of one with the previous T1, while keeping its length unchanged thanks to the elimination of TIROS. It is supposed to be much more powerfull than the old one, but with still a relatively short run time (2 hours?).

The X1 is also supposed to be a lot brighter, thanks to getting a 1W Luxeon instead of the old 5mm Nichia. If run time is still even close to half of the old one, that is still PLENTY!  I know I am soon getting at least one X1, very likely a T1, and either a T3, XO3, or ... a T5! If the new X1 is about twice as bright as the old one, it may be a great emergency and all-purpose light to give your wife/kids.

Btwy, I don't want it to seem like I was knocking down Fenix. They may not be up to INOVA quality, but they are still quality lights (based on the L2P I have), and the various variants of the P1 have no direct competition at the same price. Yes, I am considering getting one at some point


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## LG&M (Mar 1, 2007)

So when will we see the rest of the new Inovas? I have me eye on the X1 and maybe the T1


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## flashy bazook (Mar 1, 2007)

xm_8 said:


> The T1 is the best for edc. I have a tiros T2 and it is too long for edc. X1 is the right size for edc but it doesn't have the output of a T1. How does the new T1 compare to the old tiros T1? Lumens? Runtime?


 
I think the new T1 will be getting 2 batteries, so no more EDC in the same way the old T1 was.


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## Blindasabat (Mar 1, 2007)

It is supposed to be the same length as the single cell T1 without the TIROS optic.


flashy bazook said:


> I think the new T1 will be getting 2 batteries, so no more EDC in the same way the old T1 was.


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## skalomax (Mar 2, 2007)

Just ordered a Inova T3 W/ K2. Hopefully Im not dissappointed.


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## xm_8 (Mar 3, 2007)

How much is the new T1?


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## TacticalGrilling (Mar 3, 2007)

XM, I'm hearing it's the same price as previous gen.

Be Safe, Grill Tactical. 

-Nick
TacticalGrilling.com


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## 276 (Mar 4, 2007)

skalomax said:


> Just ordered a Inova T3 W/ K2. Hopefully Im not dissappointed.


 
you will like the new t3 i know i do


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## MattK (Mar 4, 2007)

All T-series pricing is up 8-15%.



xm_8 said:


> How much is the new T1?


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## JML (Mar 4, 2007)

I like a manufacturer that upgrades products, but their refusal to modify the model numbers must drive dealers (and us) truly nuts.

Matt, please continue your practice of noting the most current information about the updated 2007 model lights. The X1 on your site says "new," but an informed CPF buyer might be confused because it's the second-generation model, the one with the uprated 5mm LED with the reflector, not the upcoming third-generation Luxeon I model. Do you know if they're changing the bezel to black on these as-yet-unreleased ones? That's the only quick way to tell what's what if you don't have the light in your hand (or see it switched on).

The 2007 second-generation T3 was nice enough that I'm going to get a 2007 second-generation T1 to replace the original one in my computer carry case!


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## Majord (Mar 9, 2007)

Newbie so take it for what it's worth ... but .... I love my new T3!
Thanks Matt!


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## MattK (Mar 10, 2007)

JML - you have no idea how frustrating it is. 

When the 07 X1 and T1/T2/T5 models arrive we'll ID them as 2007 models - it's the only way to make it clear. I have to say our biggest issue with the X1 isn't people looking for the V3 version - it (was) people buying the current V2 version thinking they'd be getting a V1 then being made at us thinking we'd shipped them a fake or something since Inova's website still describes the V1 item. *SIGH*

Majord - Our pleasure - thanks!


Supposedly we'll be getting the new T1's on the 16th...I believe it when I have them in my hands.


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## LG&M (Mar 17, 2007)

How much longer are you going to make us wait for the rest of the 2007 line? I know when you get them you will post I am just being impatient.


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## MattK (Mar 17, 2007)

I know how you feel - I've been told 3 weeks running now that we'll have our T1's at the end of the week - and we still don't have them. The only '07 product I'm 'holding back' is the XO3's simply because I want to sell down the previous version first.


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## cratz2 (Mar 28, 2007)

Any update on the newest 2007 version of the X1?


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## Phaserburn (Mar 28, 2007)

The new T1 does sound appealing... always liked the cylindrical T2, but the low output and TIROS made me ultimately ditch it.


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## city cop (Mar 29, 2007)

Matt ! I'm comen down to see ya Friday for my new T3. Ya better have it and my new board for my Logic !


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## MattK (Mar 29, 2007)

Nada - the only Inova news I have to report is that the bolt 2 x AA and 2 x AAA are now in stock...

ROB ! Come on down - I have your Striker module! *ducks*


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## pilou (Mar 29, 2007)

MattK said:


> Nada -



We need to start flooding Inova's phone lines about the new T1, T2, X1, etc. The wait is becoming unbearable!  :lolsign::lolsign:


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## Modern_Major_General (Mar 29, 2007)

to anyone who has tried the new bolts; how much would you say they outshine the old radiants if at all?


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## MattK (Mar 29, 2007)

If I wasn't such a nice guy I'd post some numbers 

MMG - They just arrived so I haven't had a chance to test them - quality is definitely nicer than the Radiants - that's for sure!


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## pilou (Mar 29, 2007)

Modern_Major_General said:


> to anyone who has tried the new bolts; how much would you say they outshine the old radiants if at all?




Someone did a hands on review a couple of days ago: link


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## Chusco411 (Apr 4, 2007)

I just recieved this email from Inova today.

 I apologize for the delay in my response, I needed to check with our engineers on your request. The newest version of the X1 has begun shipment from Emissive April 1st with a 2 watt LED. Unfortunately the type of LEDs we use is proprietary and we do not divulge that information to end users. This is company policy. The MSRP is $24.99.


Thanks so much, 

*Katie Cocuzzo* 

Maybe this helps


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## Martini (Apr 4, 2007)

Chusco411 said:


> The newest version of the X1 has begun shipment from Emissive April 1st with a 2 watt LED. Unfortunately the type of LEDs we use is proprietary and we do not divulge that information to end users. This is company policy.


This makes it sound like the X1 uses a Gen X or something. They did say Luxeon before, didn't they?


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 4, 2007)

> Unfortunately the type of LEDs we use is proprietary and we do not divulge that information to end users. This is company policy.



IMHO (and BTW I like Inovas)
Translation:
We're using a cheap Luxeon (I or III) emitter and we're too embarassed to tell you that we're using an older part when our competition is starting to bring the latest generation LEDs out on their products. Now go away and leave us to do our underperforming in peace.

But then again I didn't expect the new X1 to be ultra modern. I just want the compact, well built, tactical switch, waterproof, and long runtime on 1AA X1 with a slightly brighter emitter. (and hopefuly available w/ a red emitter)


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## Lambert (Apr 4, 2007)

Martini said:


> Wow. For the time being at least, Inova is dead to me. A lot of these changes don't make any sense. I can see using a power LED for the X1, but why up the output so much? The point of the X1 was long runtime on a common cell (or so I thought). And the T1 is now a 2 cell light? Something is not right, because the T1 and T2 cannot be the same light. I was really hoping to see Inova get some better electronics and maybe something that will take an 18650 (or any larger Li-ion). I wasn't expecting to see XR-Es yet, but I wasn't expecting K2s either. The price increases aren't going to make anybody happy. I suppose there will be a big grab for the old stock soon.





woodfluter said:


> I think ditching the TIROS would be a big, big mistake. Yes, I agree that if you are seeking a single light to serve all purposes, a reflector is better, but no light does everything well. Not even my HDS EDC. The tight beam, uniform center, long throw of the T-series was their best feature, perfect if you were searching for something at a distance or spotting wildlife.
> 
> And I agree that making the X1 into a high-output light is a mistake - this was supposed to be an alternative to Gerber's mangled mutation of the CMG IU!
> 
> ...




I agree doesn't make any sense at all to discontinue the TIROS system since THAT was what made the Inovas "innovative". Switching to a reflector just puts the whole line into the "generic LED flashlight" crap pile.

I think a lot of people are missing the point when they compare the light output of the new reflected Inova's with the TIROS and concluding that it's brighter etc., well duh if it uses a higher wattage LED and driven harder it's going to be brighter. Put the same LED in the TIROS and you'd get better output too.

Also why can't they just make a simple triple click H/M/L switch?


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## p97z (Apr 4, 2007)

MattK,

I just ordered a 2AA bolt... Let us know when the new X1's are here. I can't wait!


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## pilou (Apr 4, 2007)

What's a gen X LED? Just unknown generic?

Re: TIROS. I think some of you are right the Inova may be making a mistake by dropping it completely. They should have one or two lights with TIROS, because some applications benefit from it. Maybe they will keep it in some lights.


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## MattK (Apr 4, 2007)

I should have the new X1's and T1's shortly - T2's and T5's are very behind schedule.

The emitter in the new X1 is the same as the emitter in the AAA bolt - whatever that is.


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## cratz2 (Apr 4, 2007)

I'm imagining that the new X1 will have a lightly driven K2 emitter.

I like the optic version of the X1 and the current Nichia CS reflectored version of the X1. One of these days, I will put an uncut SMJLED in an original X1 with the optic and hopefully it would be quite a bit brighter. I did a few X1/optic mods. I did a Nichia CS C0 and a Nichia CS B0. Then I put a red THC3 LED in it and sold it. They aren't hard at all to mod once you get them apart.


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## Blindasabat (Apr 4, 2007)

Lambert said:


> I agree doesn't make any sense at all to discontinue the TIROS system since THAT was what made the Inovas "innovative". Switching to a reflector just puts the whole line into the "generic LED flashlight" crap pile.


I agree, but...


Lambert said:


> Also why can't they just make a simple triple click H/M/L switch?


Because that would alienate the law enforcement market. And it would suck to use. They need a Surefire L1/L2/A2 low-high type system. Multiple clicking through "modes" is not for real lights. That feature is what makes me dislike many decent lights I have except HDS which I can set to come on how I want every time. Inova needs a progressive switch or a separate switching mechanism.


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## LG&M (Apr 16, 2007)

Are the new lights going to be 2007 or 2008. If they can't build a light any faster then their web site loads it might be next year. I want a X1 maybe a T1


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## jog31 (Apr 16, 2007)

Was just out at frys electronics and they had all the new bolt models... Picked up the 2 aaa version and its alright... kinda weak though for a 2 watt.


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## cratz2 (Apr 16, 2007)

jog31 said:


> Was just out at frys electronics and they had all the new bolt models... Picked up the 2 aaa version and its alright... kinda weak though for a 2 watt.



I'll head up to the local Frys and see if the Bolts have made it here to Indiana yet. 

I really hope a couple of new X1s have slipped in as well. Then I'll be like this guy ---->


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## cratz2 (Apr 16, 2007)

Got back from Fry's a couple hours ago. They had the 2xAAA, 2xAA and 2x123 Bolt series lights. Didn't really look at the 2x123 lights at all, but the 2xAA definately looks at least twice as bright as the 2xAAA lights.

These lights do have some range of tint. I bought the brightest 2xAAA light they had and the greenest 2xAAA light I had (best color rendition in case I end up using it outdoors). The brighter one has a distinctly violet tint to it compared to the greener one, but compared to my two whitest LED lights, it looks only very slightly blue or slightly violet.

No new style X1s were on display so I asked about them. Basically I pointed out that there was a new version of the X1 that was released 'about' the same time as the Bolt series. They component manager said that they didn't have any new X1s incoming at all at this point and he asked why I would even ask. I pointed out that there was a new version and pointed out that all of their X1 rack areas were completely filled up and that they even had four of the old (optic) version that hadn't even been built since before March of last year at which point he basically called me a liar without using such harsh language.

Man... you gotta love clueless retail 'managers'.


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## steve_vance (Apr 17, 2007)

jefffoxsr said:


> I love my Inova lights, but since I bought the Fenix lights I haven't touched the Inovas.
> 
> Why would anyone want to buy the 2007 Inovas instead of the Fenix?
> The Fenix is brighter and runs longer lumens for lumens.
> ...



IMHO, in a word, QUALITY. Look at the thickness of the material, the quality of the HAIII finish, then do a search on how many people have had their Fenix lights mysteriously stop working/break/etc. No offense to Fenix, buy the two just don't compare. Then there's the issue of lifetime warranty with free replacement, vs "lifetime except you pay for the parts". A big difference, in my opinion.


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## Gunner12 (Apr 17, 2007)

Inova: Toughness, simple proven technology that is nearly impossible to fail, good warranty

Fenix: New technology, Brighter and throw further, some are cheaper, could be more useful

Don't all of the new Inova lights use reflectors?


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## Martini (Apr 18, 2007)

Gunner12 said:


> Inova: Toughness, simple proven technology that is nearly impossible to fail, good warranty
> 
> Fenix: New technology, Brighter and throw further, some are cheaper, could be more useful
> 
> Don't all of the new Inova lights use reflectors?


Inova: disappoints me with reduced runtimes and unreliable specifications.

Fenix: disappoints me with useless UIs and decreasing quality.

Yes, they're all reflectored now. TIROS is dead.

As implied, quality is not even a question with Inova, which is all the more reason for me to disappointed in not being motivated to buy them.


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## Retinator (Apr 18, 2007)

Is there any significant difference between the X series and the T series besides the knurling, color, clicky/twisty tailcaps?

They're both solid lights.

The only thing about the X series, is the sides are too smooth and when pressing the momentary on (thumbs of steel OMG lol) is the light slides through my grip.

Oh and since they quit using TIROS, how badly do you think it will affect the throw?


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## 2jzpower (Apr 19, 2007)

the trios was what gave them the "cool" factor 
i compare inova to fenix and right not fenix seems to be pulling away FAST


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## sims2k (Apr 19, 2007)

Yeah... I bought my Inova T and X lights because of the TIROS. Will wait for the new Nuwai's instead.


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## Daylo (Apr 24, 2007)

MattK, noticed BatteryJunction has the 2007 T5 in stock, any word on the T1 and T2? I'm itching to place my order for those guys.


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## MattK (Apr 25, 2007)

sims2k - The new lights are simply better. TIROS made sense before but now I believe the loss inside the optic is hard to justify. YMMV but if you haven't tried the new/old side by side I'd resserve judgement until you do.


Daylo - The 2007 T5's are NOT in stock - if you not the availability is 4-6 weeks which is what Inova told me to expect on Monday so for now it's just pre-order. The 06 T5's are no longer available so we needed to remove/edit that item.

The 07 T1's, I'M TOLD, should be here in about 10 days, new T2's about 1 week after that.


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## MattK (Apr 27, 2007)

New T1's will be here this Monday! 

LINK


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## Cydonia (Apr 27, 2007)

MattK said:


> New T1's will be here this Monday!



Great! Will the T2 be a week after Monday still do you think?


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## MattK (Apr 27, 2007)

I truly hope so but I've learned not to make promises on things I cannot control.


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## LG&M (Apr 27, 2007)

Good news about the T1's. How about the X1's?


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## MattK (Apr 28, 2007)

uhh soon


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## JML (Apr 28, 2007)

Because of the quality and output of the Lumapower Cree lights, I'm very much on the fence about the Inova T1. I have a Lumapower D-Mini HA-III that very much out-throws the new 2007 Inova T3, and figure that the runtime may not be all that different given the balance of emitter efficiencies and the number of batteries required. The Lumapower M3 in CR123 configuration has a form factor somewhat smaller than the T1, with what seems to be roughly the same output (on high) as the new T1: about 85 lumens output claimed by each maker. If the Cree is twice as efficient as the K2, that probably cancels out any runtime advantage from the 2xCR123 T1 -- and, furthermore, MattK's said that Inova has biased the T1 toward output and not runtime, as a "pocket rocket."

The new T3 beam is a nice compromise of flood and throw, but I don't expect the T1 to throw as far with the smaller reflector. So it's probably going to yield more spill and flood than the T3. Furthermore, Lumapower is now working on the final testing of a forward clickie for their lights, cancelling another Inova advantage (and the Lumapower light has a two-stage reverse clickie and a twist-control for medium vs. high output). Both lights are very much overbuilt, so Inova may have only the black coloring, slightly lower price, and USA manufacturing as selling points.

Not an easy decision. The proof will be in the testing...


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## MattK (Apr 28, 2007)

Good points. I would also add that Inova has a lifetime warranty to the Inova's 'scorecard.'

I do like the new T1 a lot. It's a vast improvement over the TIROS model and is undoubtedly a quality item if not the best performer when viewed against the LumaPower lights.


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## JML (Apr 28, 2007)

Inova's quality is exceptionally high, but with the pace of innovation and improvement in LED lighting, a lifetime warranty isn't all that meaningful, I'm afraid. Two years, yes, but anything over two years of age is probably obsolete if you cannot upgrade the LED & driver -- which you can do with Lumapower lights. Inovas aren't user-serviceable (despite the freeze-popping efforts of those who seek to mod the lights) and they really cannot be repaired upgraded -- only replaced.


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## MattK (Apr 28, 2007)

Agreed - but that's why so many mfrs give a lifetime warranty on flashlights - it's relatively cheap to do.

So, did you order your MRV yet?


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## nanotech17 (Apr 28, 2007)

MattK said:


> Good points. I would also add that Inova has a lifetime warranty to the Inova's 'scorecard.'
> 
> I do like the new T1 a lot. It's a vast improvement over the TIROS model and is undoubtedly a quality item if not the best performer when viewed against the LumaPower lights.



MattK,
That T1 & T2 is very beautiful.


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## JML (Apr 30, 2007)

MattK said:


> So, did you order your MRV yet?


 
Thinking about it... The super-long-throw of the MRV isn't important to me in most situations, when compared to the greater utility of a smooth and bright flood or spill. If I were a law enforcement officer, I could see the need, but for walking outside in the dark in the suburbs, it's not critical.


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## Blindasabat (Apr 30, 2007)

JML said:


> Inova's quality is exceptionally high, but with the pace of innovation and improvement in LED lighting, a lifetime warranty isn't all that meaningful, I'm afraid. Two years, yes, but anything over two years of age is probably obsolete if you cannot upgrade the LED & driver...


I have to disagree in the case of non-flashaholics. Or even flashaholics that stop following CPF. Just because future lights are and will be more efficient, does not mean someone will not be perfectly served by a current light that makes nice useable light for a useful amount of time. Even the incan Mags out there still serve their owners well - and can for another 20 years. The current Inovas will still light someone's way then just as good then as now.
I intend to keep (and use) my current T1 unmodified for as far as I can foresee even though I have more efficient lights.


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## flashlightsnlasers (Apr 30, 2007)

I just started to collect the Inova reflector series as they became available,they are some of the best lights...thought I had the core collection but then tiros optics was discontinued..oh well on the road again..I can already hear the ups truck coming down the street...


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## ensile (Apr 30, 2007)

i am very close to getting an inova, i have always wanted one, and I might not be able to afford one again for a while, so my question to all of the inova fans, should I pickup the old t1 or the new t1 for edc, my main concern is the new t1's super bright 85 lumens... perhaps a bit too much light for all round applications... any advantages/disadvantages against either ? the older one takes 1 battery (+1) and has a stainless bezel ring (+1) EDC lights get the drop from time to time.. nice to know chunks wont be taken out... any help would be sweet thanks !


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## ensile (Apr 30, 2007)

i think i just answered my own question, does anyone offer free worldwide shipping with these ? i may purchase a couple if that will sway things..


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## MattK (Apr 30, 2007)

Does anyone offer "free worldwide shipping" on anything?


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## ensile (Apr 30, 2007)

good question... do they ?


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## nanotech17 (Apr 30, 2007)

I got my T3 from Gad-zooks from ebay.


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## ensile (Apr 30, 2007)

they are bloody good arent they, i sourced a few SAK's from them, very cheap shipping, i might have to check them out, might grab a swisstool whilst i'm at it.


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## parnass (Apr 30, 2007)

ensile said:


> i am very close to getting an inova, i have always wanted one, and I might not be able to afford one again for a while, so my question to all of the inova fans, should I pickup the old t1 or the new t1 for edc,...



Please don't take this the wrong way, but if your finances are such that you just barely have the money for a flashlight (or any hobby item), I would not purchase it. 

That aside, the only reports about the new T1's performance I have read were from a dealer and Inova itself. It would be prudent to wait until we get reports from consumers, especially if you don't have much money to spend. You could be stuck with a disappointing product.

Physical dimensions aside, the single cell TIROS T1 and the two cell reflector T1 sound quite different from each other. 

I have the TIROS version Inova T1. It is built like a tank and has better throw than many other single CR123a Luxeon flashlights. The tail switch is superb.

However, the beam is very narrow compared to a typical reflectorized flashlight which makes walking in darkness more difficult. Also, the T1 is longer than average single cell light and fat, too. 

I favor single cell lights for EDC, but the T1 TIROS version draws lots of current so the battery life is shorter. My T1 draws 630 milliamps.

Dealers have lowered prices on their old T1s and they may lower them even further when the new version becomes more widely available.


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## Cydonia (May 1, 2007)

I’m very curious about the run times and actual lumen count that this new crop of T series produce. One user report of the new T3 suggests an actual ballpark lumen output of more like 65, than the claimed 100. I was hoping for a good 80…
If the T2 with it’s underdriven “80 lumen LED” manages to actually reach 40 lumens this time around, while maintaining a similar 5h51min full regulated (with 25% output tapering out to 6h30min) run time graph of flashlightreviews old T2 review, then I’ll be happy!!! Smoother beam, wider throw, higher efficiency LED, darkened stainless steel bezel ring (is it still stainless?) and same overall build quality plus that great tactical clicky switch ... 



Just a few more weeks to wait. And then... hmm... who will do the review?


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## flashlightsnlasers (May 1, 2007)

I would recommend the x5 if anything,usually when you need a good light your indoors and these give off some good clean light,otherwise for outdoors I guess the x5 would be a good backup to a more powerful light like the t2 or t3...the t1 is excellent I would recommend either for carry,the x5 has a 20 hour burn time which is very good.


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## parnass (May 1, 2007)

flashlightsnlasers,

Your signature line says, in part:



flashlightsnlasers said:


> Inova Tiros 2 of each T5,T4,T3,T2,T1,XO3,XO2,XO,X5,..Inova Reflector series 2 of each T4,T3,T2,T1,XO,XO3



Do you really have the new, 2007 reflector version of the T1 and T2?
If so, please tell us about them.

Thanks


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## ensile (May 1, 2007)

parnass said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but if your finances are such that you just barely have the money for a flashlight (or any hobby item), I would not purchase it.


 
Thank you for looking out for other members, I know what you mean in terms of avoiding putting myself into a situation where I could fall on hard times, Perhaps I was a little ambiguous with that statement about me not being able to afford one. 

To rest your mind, It just mean't that I'm about to move places in the next few weeks, at that stage money will be tight as rent is more and i'm going to have to pay more for petrol.

I have ordered the t1 (tiros), i don't mind the chubbyness of them because they arent heavy and you can feel the quality immediately, the clicky button is also a really nice pronounced 'click', i know i can rely on it. I would have liked to have scored an x1 with the old optics style to be honest, but i doubt they are avail anymore. 

Reasons why i didn't go with the new one..

1. takes 2 cells, dont need another 2 cell light.
2. 85 lumens is too much light for general purpose navigation
3. no tiros, no stainless bezel, it's just anodized alloy, and i think stainless on an edc is key.
4. extra bucks for something i don't need.


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## Cydonia (May 1, 2007)

ensile said:


> 1. takes 2 cells, dont need another 2 cell light.
> 2. 85 lumens is too much light for general purpose navigation
> 3. no tiros, no stainless bezel, *it's just anodized alloy*, and i think stainless on an edc is key.
> 4. extra bucks for something i don't need.



 did they really downgrade to anodized alloy? Can anyone else confirm this?




parnass said:


> Do you really have the new, 2007 reflector version of the T1 and T2? If so, please tell us about them.
> Thanks



flashlightsnlasers might actually have them already? If so, yeah, let's hear about them!


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## JML (May 1, 2007)

The new 2007 T3 bezel ring is not attracted to a magnet, so that eliminates most steels. I don't think it's aluminum, as the threads are too fine, sharp, and well-cut to be aluminum, at least in my opinion. I was able to remove mine by hand, but couldn't budge the stainless bezel rings on my old T3 and X03. 

The color is not matte HA-III aluminum. Too glossy, but it doesn't feel like HA-II, either. The color isn't permanent, either -- some will come off with Flitz polish.

It might be stainless under the black coloring.


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## MattK (May 1, 2007)

The black bezel rings were specifically requested by LEO/Military buyers - the 'shine' of polished metal was seen as a disadvantage for tactical users.

We're less than 1 hr from the factory and just got T1's yesterday - I'd be surprised if anyone else has T1's yet. T2's have not yet shipped, no one has a 2007 T2 yet.

2007 X1's arrived today in Titanium only - we'll get them up on the site ASAP!


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## guam9092 (May 1, 2007)

MattK said:


> The black bezel rings were specifically requested by LEO/Military buyers - the 'shine' of polished metal was seen as a disadvantage for tactical users.
> 
> We're less than 1 hr from the factory and just got T1's yesterday - I'd be surprised if anyone else has T1's yet. T2's have not yet shipped, no one has a 2007 T2 yet.
> 
> 2007 X1's arrived today in Titanium only - we'll get them up on the site ASAP!



Matt- I would like to buy one as soon as they are posted on your website. BTW, how much power will it have? I'm assumng it's better than the current model.


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## ensile (May 1, 2007)

i was thinking plated stainless, but paint or most coatings would chip if dropped if bonded to stainless, it's not as porous as alum and any kind of amazing voodoo magic coating would be a tad over the top for mass production light. to me it looked like alloy, tough call, all i heard is that the troops didnt like the stainless bezel because it was silver and could cause a reflection, so i assumed most coatings would chip off if it were color on stainless. Sorry for causing confusion. I also couldnt find any info on the bezel when i was researching for a purchase so, I assumed it was a conspiracy, almost as if inova knew there would be forum outrage.


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## MattK (May 1, 2007)

2007 X1's are up: LINK

Bolt 2L 2 X CR123A's are in and listed: LINK


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## Modern_Major_General (May 1, 2007)

any word on the black X1's?


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## Blindasabat (May 1, 2007)

JML said:


> The new 2007 T3 bezel ring is not attracted to a magnet, so that eliminates most steels.


Several stainless steels are non magnetic as the alloying elements interfere with the magnetic field. I think it is the Nickel content has to be high.


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## flashlightsnlasers (May 1, 2007)

Parnass,
Just got home from work and I can let you know that the T1 is very bright and it definitely takes 2 CR batteries,I guess the exit from Tiros gave this model the extra room for the extra battery...I jumped the gun as I have the rest of the t series on order,I guess the T5 will be the last one I will be waiting on Inova for,the Bolt series is very bright the Bolt 3AAA is good for it's size but the 2AA and the 2L rock,Just got the 2L today and it's bright.


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## ampdude (May 1, 2007)

MattK said:


> 2007 X1's are up: LINK
> 
> Bolt 2L 2 X CR123A's are in and listed: LINK




Says "LED color of your choice", but I don't see any choices. Are there going to be color choices? I'd love a red lux X1.

Really wish Inova would let you skip downloading the flash intro on their site...


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## Delta (May 1, 2007)

ampdude said:


> Says "LED color of your choice", but I don't see any choices. Are there going to be color choices? I'd love a red lux X1.




You have to click "Add to cart" 

Looks like Green and White


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## MattK (May 1, 2007)

The 2007 X1's are Titanium/white LED only right now. The 'new style' ones with colored LED's refer to the Generation 2 product. The error on the website has been corrected.

I've never seen a red X1 and AFAIK they only ever existed as an item in a catalog and were never produced. I have asked Inova to make them many times...


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## cratz2 (May 1, 2007)

Have you had a chance to play with one of the new X1s yet? Is the beam very similar to the Bolt 2xAAA or is it any brighter or dimmer? I know with the reflectored X1, it was pretty much identical to the Radiant 2xAAA.

Thanks for all the help. You've probably spent 2 hours of your life posting in this thread alone.


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## ampdude (May 1, 2007)

MattK said:


> The 2007 X1's are Titanium/white LED only right now. The 'new style' ones with colored LED's refer to the Generation 2 product. The error on the website has been corrected.
> 
> I've never seen a red X1 and AFAIK they only ever existed as an item in a catalog and were never produced. I have asked Inova to make them many times...




The did used to make a red X1. It was the first generation with the optic. I've even seen them at Target quite awhile back. Wish I had bought one. Would like a red luxeon even more though.


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## MattK (May 1, 2007)

cRATZ - Pretty limited time as they just arrived today but they're definitely brighter than the Gen 1/Gen 2 X1's and brighter than the bolt 3A (2xAAA) as well. I've only opened 1 X1 so far but it's noticeably brighter than the 3A so even accounting for typical Luxeon variation it seems safe to assume they're engineered to run brighter.


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## cratz2 (May 1, 2007)

ampdude said:


> The did used to make a red X1. It was the first generation with the optic. I've even seen them at Target quite awhile back. Wish I had bought one. Would like a red luxeon even more though.



Even according to Inova, they never shipped red X1s to retail outlets. ... It would be great if they did distribute them, but I think you are one of about two people that have claimed to have seen them and the only person I recall claiming to have seen one at Target.

It will be great once we see some of these newest X1s and see how easy it will be to swap the LED for, say, a 190 Lumen Red Orange Lux III. Even if the LED only sees 350mA, that would probably be _really frickin bright!_

Edited with a bit more tact.


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## ChopperCFI (May 2, 2007)

Matt,
Your 2007 X1 link shows a runtime of 10 hours while the Inova catalog shows 2 hours. Possibly just an artifact from rushing to get us the latest information, which is greatly appreciated. If the new version is a lot brighter, the 2 hours is believable. 

To me, one of the gen 2 X1 advantages was the really long runtime.


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## MattK (May 2, 2007)

*sigh* if you want something done right...

Edited now - thanks for the heads up Chopper!


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## Raven (May 2, 2007)

So the new 3rd gen X1 is finally out. Let's hope Quickbeam does a review.


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## Cydonia (May 2, 2007)

Raven said:


> So the new 3rd gen X1 is finally out. Let's hope Quickbeam does a review.



Just checked back at batteryjunction and noticed that in the new X1 description it says "diamond turned reflector". Like in the new T series. This new X1 might have a really precise flood with smoothly graduated hot spot... at fist I dismissed it because of the short battery life, but now I'm starting to think this thing could be a real winner too.

If it’s got this new diamond turned reflector then they almost certainly have fixed that X1 generation 2 lens glitch. The one where several people reported the lens falling out due to it being “glued” in place. I don’t know why it’s so hard to get confirmation of whether the X1 generation 2 really did have a “glued” in lens or not…? Either way, the generation 2 X1 was out only since last Summer, and now it is history already… 

MattK, are you allowed to comment on new products such as the X1 you just received? 
Any idea when the X1 in black will arrive? ugh, my next order is gonna be a big one I know it... have to fuel up the old paypal account :laughing:


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## MattK (May 2, 2007)

Some quick answers:

The 'falling out' reflector was not endemic to all gen 2 X1's just the first months production and just a relatively small number of units were affected. There issue was resolved long ago and the mistake has not been repeated on the new X1.

I can say whatever I want. 

I'm not and have never been a big X1 nut - I'd rather have a LumaPower F1 myself but I can tell you the new X1 is at least 2X as bright as the Gen 2 and that the beam quality is much better - not perfect, but WAY better. All in all a vastly improved product IMO - YMMV.


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## dlrflyer (May 2, 2007)

I thought that the X1 wasn't going to use a Luxeon? Can you confirm what emitter is being used?


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## MattK (May 2, 2007)

Sorry I should have said LumiLED's - force of habit.

I've been asked not to disclose the emitter type. I have no idea why it's an issue but I'll respect the request. I fully expect some clever soul here to figure it out soon enough anyway.


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## Burgess (May 3, 2007)

Waitin' for some hands-on testing of the new (3rd Generation) X-1.









Hope that Doug/QuickBeam decides this is worthy of a review.


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## espy (May 3, 2007)

I have a second generation X1, and I noticed in the marketing information, it says it's "aircraft grade" anodized aluminum, while the 2007 X1's say "aerospace" grade. Have the X1's always been HAIII grade anodized aluminum? Or did they upgrade from Type 2 to HAIII?

Also, the UK site someone posted earlier displaying the 2007 X1's showed a runtime of 12 hours. That's a mistake, right? With the second generation X1's, 10 hours was estimated but with the new high power 2007 X1's, Inova's site and catalogue rates them at two hours.

Also, I'm sorry I'm new but I did try searching... what is the TIROS exactly and why is there so much debate about it?


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## Kilovolt (May 3, 2007)

I have just placed an order with BatteryJunction for a 2007 X1.

I am eager to try it out because I am an old fan of Inova's X Series.


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## LG&M (May 3, 2007)

Does Batteryjunction have a CPF discount?


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## cratz2 (May 3, 2007)

espy said:


> I have a second generation X1, and I noticed in the marketing information, it says it's "aircraft grade" anodized aluminum, while the 2007 X1's say "aerospace" grade. Have the X1's always been HAIII grade anodized aluminum? Or did they upgrade from Type 2 to HAIII?
> 
> Also, the UK site someone posted earlier displaying the 2007 X1's showed a runtime of 12 hours. That's a mistake, right? With the second generation X1's, 10 hours was estimated but with the new high power 2007 X1's, Inova's site and catalogue rates them at two hours.
> 
> Also, I'm sorry I'm new but I did try searching... what is the TIROS exactly and why is there so much debate about it?



I've owned probably 20 X1s and the first one I ever bought, I carried it almost non stop for a year, then retired it, then modded it with a red LED then carried it a bit more. It looks pretty much perfect when I sold it. I'm not 100% if the finish complies with the military spec, but it is a VERY decent finish.

By most counts, the runtime of the newest 2007 X1 should be approximately 2 hours, not 10 or 12 hours.

TIROS is an optic vs a reflector... The result is very respectable throw, but with less sidespill than you would get with a traditional reflector. It's neither good nor bad... it's just a different method of focusing the light however a lot of folks really dislike it and prefer the reflector.


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## :)> (May 3, 2007)

I just ordered a pair of X1's with the new LED in them. I want so badly to be an Inova fan and these might do it for me. 

-Goatee


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## MattK (May 3, 2007)

espy - All Inova X and T series lights are Type III hard anodized AKA HAIII, this has nothing to do with the grade of aluminum used. That said Inova is very proud of the grade of aluminum (exactly which it is escapes me) that they use.

There was some runtime on confusion - we had an error on it too as the PRINT catalog does say 12 hours but the PDF online catalog says 2 hours. We believe 2 hours to be correct and are now publishing that number.

TIROS is an acronym for total internal reflection optical system also called TIR. Basically it's a way of making a weak light source throw well.
Rather than attempt to explain it further here's a helpful link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_internal_reflection In my opinion TIROS was great in the day of 1W LED's making 40-50 lumens. Now that we have 75-240L emitters I think that they're largely unneccessary. YMMV. 

Kilovolt - Thanks!

LG&M - YES! Coupon code cpf2006 saves you an additional 5%! 

Goatee - Thanks!


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## guam9092 (May 4, 2007)

MattK said:


> espy - All Inova X and T series lights are Type III hard anodized AKA HAIII, this has nothing to do with the grade of aluminum used. That said Inova is very proud of the grade of aluminum (exactly which it is escapes me) that they use.
> 
> There was some runtime on confusion - we had an error on it too as the PRINT catalog does say 12 hours but the PDF online catalog says 2 hours. We believe 2 hours to be correct and are now publishing that number.
> 
> ...



Gosh Matt, I forgot to use the CPF2006 to get 5% off when I made my order for the 2007 Inova X1. Oh well, next time I'll use it on my next order.


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## Warp (May 4, 2007)

I might pick up one of the new T2s to replace my Surefire G2 as part of my EDC. My carpenter jeans and cargo kakis both fit it quite well. I want more runtime at "tactical" light levels without stepping down from Surefire's level of durability/quality control.

The new cree equipped Fenix lights are tempting, but the quality control, reliability and durability are lacking. I like the toughness of my X1 (v.2) and G2 (EDC lights). I have a Fenix P1 for my keychain as well, but it was a lemon. Had to be returned almost immediately, and was replaced.

<---- Eagerly awaiting results from the new Inova T2.


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## Gryffin (May 4, 2007)

espy said:


> I have a second generation X1, and I noticed in the marketing information, it says it's "aircraft grade" anodized aluminum, while the 2007 X1's say "aerospace" grade. Have the X1's always been HAIII grade anodized aluminum? Or did they upgrade from Type 2 to HAIII?


You're confusing the finish with the material. Two different things. As has already been pointed out, all the X- and T- series Inovas carry HAIII finish.

As for "aerospace grade" aluminum... as a former aerospace engineer, I can tell you that that phrase means about as much as does "surgical stainless" when referring to knife blades: not a damn thing.

The aerospace industry uses dozens of different grades of aluminum. What I *hope* Inova means is that they use the high-strength grades that are generally used for structural parts, namely 7075, or less commonly 6061 or 5052. Of course, even crappy 1xxx series alloys are used for things like heat sinks, so even that stuff could be labelled "aerospace grade" if you were willing to stretch the truth a bit... and marketing folks would _never_ do that, would they??


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## skalomax (May 4, 2007)

Just ordered 2 more 3rd Gen X1's.


Does anyone know what type of LED?
Or will It be a surprise?


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## phil000 (May 4, 2007)

Slightly off topic but, Could anyone pretty please tell me the lumens rating of the inova bolt 2AA?

Thanks,
Phil


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## cratz2 (May 4, 2007)

My best guess is ~45 Lumens for the 2xAA Bolt. Mine is noticably brighter overall than the 2xAA Minimag LED. Somewhere in the reviews forum, I took several beam shots if you'd care to look over there. I think I called the thread 'Inova Bolt Series...' or something like that.


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## Blindasabat (May 4, 2007)

Been an Inova fan for a while now (T1, T3, X1's) and just ordered a new X1. Looking forward to getting it soon.
Thanks for the 5% off code, Matt!

The T1 is still my favorite, though I really like all of them.



:)> said:


> I just ordered a pair of X1's with the new LED in them. I want so badly to be an Inova fan and these might do it for me.
> 
> -Goatee


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## Phaserburn (May 4, 2007)

New T1 recieved here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=163805


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## Cydonia (May 4, 2007)

Just a heads up to remind interested people that there exist AA tube extenders for the Inova T series. This new T series should renew interest in them. I guess there are still some left available? In downloads Inova extender thread.


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## chevrofreak (May 4, 2007)

MattK said:


> espy - All Inova X and T series lights are Type III hard anodized, which is often incorrectly refered to as HAIII



fixed


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## ampdude (May 4, 2007)

Cydonia said:


> Just a heads up to remind interested people that there exist AA tube extenders for the Inova T series. This new T series should renew interest in them. I guess there are still some left available? In downloads Inova extender thread.




I don't know, I think most people would just buy the Bolt series if they want AA Inova's..
Makes a T series more versatile though. Definately interesting.


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## martytoo (May 4, 2007)

I have been wondering about upgrading to Inova quality. I noticed that the X1 is listed as using a 14500 battery by a reviewer on another Internet site.

Does Inova spec the X1 as handling the higher voltage of a rechargeable like the 14500? I also was concerned about the same question for the T1 and T2. Do they accept rechargeable lithiums? If so what it the allure of the AA adaptors from "Download"?


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## Warp (May 4, 2007)

martytoo said:


> I have been wondering about upgrading to Inova quality. I noticed that the X1 is listed as using a 14500 battery by a reviewer on another Internet site.
> 
> Does Inova spec the X1 as handling the higher voltage of a rechargeable like the 14500? I also was concerned about the same question for the T1 and T2. Do they accept rechargeable lithiums? If so what it the allure of the AA adaptors from "Download"?


 
Pretty sure the packages for my 2nd gen X1 'said to use' alkalines only. I remember reading on here that higher voltage was not recommended.


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## espy (May 4, 2007)

> Pretty sure the packages for my 2nd gen X1 was for alkalines only.



I remember reading the same, and I think using any non-alkalines will void your warranty.

Anyway, thank you everyone for your information, it was very insightful! I look forward to reading reviews or comparisons of the new X1!


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