# What is the attraction of Incandescent?



## shane1 (Mar 6, 2020)

Just stumbled across this sub forum and had a look around. Why do some prefer incandescent to LED? LED’s in general seem more efficient, durable and available in warm tints.


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## id30209 (Mar 6, 2020)

Glow!
Ultimate hi cri


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## dotCPF (Mar 6, 2020)

Personally I have found:

K temp is super easy on the eyes. I'm quite favorable to it. 

100 CRI.

They yield very high intensity beams.

60 lumens (Typical of a Surefire 6P incandescent bulb) is actually quite a good bit of light. I can clearly light up my chicken coop from the back porch, roughly 100' away. Enough to confirm all is well.

They are much less efficient, though I don't know if it's fair to say less durable. I have heard that Surefire's Xenon bulbs will survive full immersion in water..


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## DayofReckoning (Mar 6, 2020)

Beautiful, full spectrum 100CRI light that the very best high CRI LED's still cannot completely match
Incandescent's also throw very well compared to most LED's of similar output and size.
With the advent of Li-ion cells, LumensFactory bulbs, and Bi-pin adapters, this has helped Incans from going completely obsolete
Nostalgia probably plays a big part with the small group of guys that occupy this section of the forums. 

One of the biggest problems, I think, with people new to the hobby is when they hear "Incandescent" they automatically get a mental picture of the traditional dim, yellow, unfocused Maglite type beam.

Once you see a quality, hot driven xenon/halogen lamp pushed by Li-ion cells to 3325k to 3350K, its hard to go back to most LED's.


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## id30209 (Mar 6, 2020)

Incans are the main reason why i always choose 3000-4000k LED’s cause they just can’t give that, something that bulbs has.


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## archimedes (Mar 6, 2020)

Beautiful quality of illumination ... :candle:

Is there any room left for analog in a digital world ?


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## sgt253 (Mar 6, 2020)

all of the above.


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## ampdude (Mar 6, 2020)

Even the best high CRI LED's cannot match the quality of light output of a well driven xenon-halogen incan. I prefer quality over quantity. I consider much of a typical "white" LED's output as light pollution and the lack of long range throw is another issue. I have plenty of LED lights, but for serious uses I always reach for the incan or the HID.


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## thermal guy (Mar 6, 2020)

Honestly to me its that it brings me back to when I was a kid. Playing outside or under the covers with my pitiful 5-6 lumen lights and having a ball and keeping monsters away and walking with my friends. They were good days and incandescence takes me back to a much much simpler day😁


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## DayofReckoning (Mar 6, 2020)

I think the issue of "reliability" with incandescent lights is overblown in my opinion. Quality lamps are very rugged and durable, Surefire lamps being insanely durable. Someone here used a good example of how the flashlight bulb blowing out when the bad guy is coming in the horror movies as an example of one of the preconceived notions people have about incandescent's lack of durability.

In countless hours of use, I don't think I ever lost a bulb in actual usage, anytime I've had a bulb blow on me it's been when firing the lamp up hot off the charger.

In the event of a failure, a lamp can be swapped out very easily in most cases. The simplicity with no circuitry or drivers is a big advantage. Not the case with LED lights that fail. Usually, when they fail, they fail.


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## ampdude (Mar 6, 2020)

Incans are also EMP proof for us preppers out there. Not saying that an average LED light stored away would be effected, but it's just something to keep in mind. Solar flairs, EMP/nukes, things like that don't bother incans too much. Maybe the circuitry in the lithium batteries if anything.


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## archimedes (Mar 6, 2020)

They can run ok with the batteries in backwards ?


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## ampdude (Mar 6, 2020)

archimedes said:


> They can run ok with the batteries in backwards ?



Good one. Hehehe


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## DayofReckoning (Mar 6, 2020)

We have snowfall here in Pennsylvania as of right now. This thread inspired me to head outside with a few lights and remind myself how soft and pleasant the incan beam is in snowfall.

Anything above 500 lumens can actually make for a decent thawing device in wintertime :laughing:


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## ampdude (Mar 6, 2020)

DayofReckoning said:


> We have snowfall here in Pennsylvania as of right now. This thread inspired me to head outside with a few lights and remind myself how soft and pleasant the incan beam is in snowfall.
> 
> Anything above 500 lumens can actually make for a decent thawing device in wintertime :laughing:



Yes, that and you don't have to worry about snow building up on the lens.


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## bykfixer (Mar 6, 2020)

Why do some like driving a 1959 Pontiac or riding a 1940's Indian motorcycle? Some like playing tennis in leather sole shoes or making popcorn in a pan? In most cases it is likely familiarity. 

To me it's not about CRI, or BMP or any other three letter acronyms.
It's more about pushing an on button and getting electric fire on a stick to light my path. Part of that is familiarity from my youth. 

I definitely appreciate the virtues of a cool white LED, or neutral for that matter. But compared to a light bulb they all seem artificial to me,regardless of what charts and graphs say. Yet I have no qualms with getting 175 lumens from a 2aa battery for 2 hours from an LED.

Sometimes I like stepping back in time and lighting darkness with something from my youth like a 2C fridge magnet number, or a 4c Maglite with a 3 cell krypton bulb. Perhaps a 2c fueled by 2 LifePo4 cells using a 4 cell xenon bulb. If I'm feeling real nostalgic I'll use a WW II right angle light or a nickel plated miners light from the late 1910's.


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## archimedes (Mar 6, 2020)

ampdude said:


> Good one. Hehehe


Thank you


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## ampdude (Mar 6, 2020)

archimedes said:


> Thank you



You also made me think of my old LED Inovas that have the batteries go in "backwards". So double funny.


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## scout24 (Mar 6, 2020)

There's certainly room for incans in today's world. A Surefire P90 or P91 lit up on a pair of 18650's is a sight to behold. The beam from my Surefire M6 still makes me smile no matter what bulb is in it. And the bombproof presence in hand is reassuring as can be. It's a connection back to roots. To endless hours of flashlight tag played as a kid with plastic Evereadys and Rayovacs. Metal ones if you were cool. Simpler times. These are my nostalgic reasons, plenty of practical reasons in the posts above. Make room in your collection for a couple. SF's you can pop a screamer dropin into if you want to, or enjoy that awesome P60 beam for a bit of a blast from the past.


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## ampdude (Mar 6, 2020)

I just did a building check earlier tonight with a Maglite 4D with a Magnumstar II xenon factory bulb and a Surefire 6P with P60 in the pocket as backup. Still awesome.


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## shane1 (Mar 7, 2020)

Wow, thanks for all of the responses. Gives me something to think about. Does Surefire still make an incandescent lights? I dont even see the 6P listed on their site.


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## bykfixer (Mar 7, 2020)

The 6p and other incans went out of production a couple of years back. 2016?

But they can still be found new in package at eBay or Amazon and the P60 modules as well. New 6p's go for around $55 and new P60's around $15.


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## ampdude (Mar 7, 2020)

You don't have to pay that. I just got a couple of 6P's NIP for under $40 each. Older style logo too.


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## RobertMM (Mar 8, 2020)

Nice catch ampdude.

I enjoy my incan lights a lot more than my LEDs, which for me are relegated to purely usage/tasks.
My incans are task lights too of course, but a lot more fun to use.

Incan lights, fountain pens, mechanical watches. Love them all.


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## bykfixer (Mar 8, 2020)

Still my favorite flashlight. 
A 1980's PA made by Bright Star 2c generic light using a PR2 bulb. 
A shallow, shiny reflector causes the 1960's Tung Sol bulb to toss out a nice Maglite-esque spot along with a good spill. All with no donut hole and minimal filament shadow. A sweet little number that is easy to spot in low light. Bright Star sliding switches were a cut above the competition for reliability and they had positive stopping points to allow signaling or for full time light. 
A friend of mine bought a few and mailed me this one at a time when I was all into LED lights, but had turned my focus back in time to all things vintage flashlights. Frankly I was surprised it was not made in the 1950's during the so called "machine era" of flashlights when signaling switches, creative stampings and new plastics were being incorparated. 

If you are into old flashlights, the Tung Sol or Chicago Miniature light bulbs were top of the line numbers with a slightly frosted globe that really reduced filament shadow. Pre-orange peel technology. Tung Sol were used in automotive applications and radios so durability was first on their mind. Oh, they don't dig on being over driven, but in stock platform they are hard to beat. Chicago Miniature also have a nice beam. 

But old Bright Star lights are wonderful. They are still around. Owned by plumbing supply company Koehler now and no longer made in the Steel City state. 

But Shane, you really should try a SureFire 6P. It may be just what the doctor ordered for your pier fishing wars adventures.


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## Lumen83 (Mar 9, 2020)

No LEDs match the tint quality of incandescent light. There is just something much different about incandescent light. Something more familiar in a way. Maybe in a way that reminds me of the lights I grew up with. Maybe it extends further. Human beings have been staring at the warm light of a burning ember, and deriving comfort from that in the dark for hundreds of thousands of years. I think incandescent burning filament bulbs have the same psychological effect. Its a warm, comforting, natural, familiar beam that I just cannot find a match for with LEDs. After having chased the LED market for years, I've finally reverted back almost exclusively to incans.


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## Saqibsaeed (Mar 10, 2020)

Incandescent bulbs cost much less than their energy-efficient alternatives. Incandescents are inefficient 90% of the energy goes toward heat and only 10% toward light.Incandescent bulbs look so good because they emit all colors of light, whereas LEDs and other more efficient light sources only manage a subset of all the colors of visible light.


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## ampdude (Mar 10, 2020)

The first light I reach for if there are bumps in the night or something crazy going on outside is the Surefire M6 with HOLA that I keep in my top nightstand drawer.

Anytime I've needed it, it's been there, and very it much intimidated those it was aimed at.

It's easy to carry around on the belt too. That 500 lumens just stomps any 3,000 lumens LED light I've owned.


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## Lumen83 (Mar 11, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Still my favorite flashlight.
> A 1980's PA made by Bright Star 2c generic light using a PR2 bulb.
> A shallow, shiny reflector causes the 1960's Tung Sol bulb to toss out a nice Maglite-esque spot along with a good spill. All with no donut hole and minimal filament shadow.



Very neat light! Any beam shots?


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## DayofReckoning (Mar 11, 2020)

One of the most beautiful beams I've ever seen was my Surefire M6 with LumensFactory IMR-M6 driven by 3 Keeppower 16650's. Absolutley [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]gorgeous.

Compared to my Fenix TK47UE, the M6 crushed the 1000 lumen mode of the Fenix, requiring me to pump up the lumens to 3200 before the M6 was obviously outclassed.

Stock Surefire lamps and primaries are cool and all, but with the abundance of Lithium ion cells, Lumensfactory lamps, and bi pin adapters that take cheap bulbs, I don't see much point in burning up old, valuable, discontinued Surefire Lamps with expensive lithium batteries when there are other options that are brighter, whiter, cheaper, and higher performing. Which is why my Surefire lamps have pretty much been retired for the most part. No real reason to use them other than maybe nostalgia.




[/FONT]


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## RobertMM (Mar 11, 2020)

Agree, DayofReckoning.

There are even 3.7V P60 type lamp assemblies for running the P, G and C series with single 16650 cells.


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## DayofReckoning (Mar 11, 2020)

RobertMM said:


> Agree, DayofReckoning.
> 
> There are even 3.7V P60 type lamp assemblies for running the P, G and C series with single 16650 cells.



Yup, too many options out there now for us incan guys.

Save the Surefire lamps for preservation.


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## bykfixer (Mar 11, 2020)

Lumen83 said:


> Very neat light! Any beam shots?


Here ya go.……





From shoulder high





From 20 feet (6m)
This around sunset today.


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## BigBaller (Mar 11, 2020)

All of the above. In addition to the warm fire-like glow we enjoy in our primitive DNA , I enjoy the lag time it takes for an incandescent lamp to dim before shutting off completely. With led it's so quick and digitalized you don't get that warm tingly feeling. It's sort of like snuffing out the flame when I'm finished using my primtive torch. I find it satisfying to my psyche. You all understand what Im talking about. I love this place. 😁


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## Lumen83 (Mar 12, 2020)

BigBaller said:


> All of the above. In addition to the warm fire-like glow we enjoy in our primitive DNA , I enjoy the lag time it takes for an incandescent lamp to dim before shutting off completely.



Good point! I also like holding the switch in just the right position to get the beam to dim but not go out altogether. Or to do it so slowly that it gradually goes out.


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## Lumen83 (Mar 12, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Here ya go.……



Thank you! That is beautiful.


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## bykfixer (Mar 12, 2020)

Nice golden sunset beam after using the same batteries nearly 3 years. Needless to say it does not run for long periods, nor every night. But the beam is definitely getting warmer with time. It's definitely a nice little flashlight. 

The other day I fired up a big head 1960's 3D Sportsman. Well, I inserted batteries and tried it out. Nothing. They were new batteries. Try three different batteries. Nothing. Change bulb (even though the filament was intact) and……nothing. Take apart front end and back in, clean with deoxidizer……nothing. 

Wait a second, what did they do in 1963? Wack to palm and TADAH!! Perfect. Long live the wack-a-palm flashlight.


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## Lumen83 (Mar 13, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Wait a second, what did they do in 1963? Wack to palm and TADAH!! Perfect. Long live the wack-a-palm flashlight.



Lol sounds like whoever made that light made my dishwasher. I've got to kick it to get it to start.


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## Katherine Alicia (May 15, 2020)

thermal guy said:


> Honestly to me its that it brings me back to when I was a kid. Playing outside or under the covers with my pitiful 5-6 lumen lights and having a ball and keeping monsters away and walking with my friends. They were good days and incandescence takes me back to a much much simpler day😁



I think that`s the reason for my preference as well, as a child I had many different flashlights (it was a great way to keep me quiet! LOL) I even used to make my own, and as much as I love LEDs as well, nothing feels quite the same as propper bulb light. I tend to keep the LED ones for Emergency lights, but use Bulbs for everyday use, LEDs seem a bit `cold` to me.

So glad I found this place, I was starting to think I was a bit crazy having a love for flashlights, especially bulb types. :thumbsup:


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## 325addict (Aug 9, 2020)

All about the quality of the light. Wide spectrum light instead of small spectrum blueish, pale UGGHHH light. I am back to modified Mags and Surefires after a small "outing" to some LED flashlights. For sure, there are legit reasons for using a LED flashlight (small and still decent output and runtime, even on a 10180 Li-ion cell) and finally I found a LED flashlight that could go down to roughly 0.1 Lumens or so, as all others were too bright even on lowest setting to read my watch in a tent... so now, the SRT7 also has it's place in my collection. But the very first one that will be packed into the luggage is some kind of incan (Surefire C3 and/or M6) and even I carried an E1E for a long time, but it ruins the pockets of my quite expensive Fjallraven trousers, so I stopped carrying that one around :-( 
Yeah, another point: even when using a high powered incan light, you are NOT blinded, while even a moderately powered blueish white LED flashlight only blinds me, instead of lighting up things so I can actually see them BETTER instead of WORSE.

Did you know Makita also HAD a few nice incan lights with large reflectors? The BML185 (or DML185) use an 18V / 0.6A PR13.5s style bulb which gives a lot of nice light. Combined with a BL1860B battery you have TEN HOURS of runtime! Want longer runtimes? Use the bulb for a BML184 lamp (which is 18V / 0.2A) and get 30 hours of run time. I actually have two BML185s, one with the 200mA bulb and one with the 600mA bulb in it.


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## Jean-Luc Descarte (Aug 9, 2020)

id30209 said:


> Incans are the main reason why i always choose 3000-4000k LED’s cause they just can’t give that, something that bulbs has.


100% agreed. The lion's share of my LED torches is all neutral-warm to warm because of that inviting tint of incans (not CRI, though, I don't really care much about that purity).

The nostalgia also makes me use my collection in low mode unless extra power is necessary. I use 30 lumens or less about 90% of the time overall.

That said, unless a _massive _breakthrough in incandescent bulb efficiency hits the market at accessible prices, I doubt I'll go back to them. I'm no lumen chaser or tint snob, but I am definitely a runtime ninny and LED allows me to indulge in battery life being a total non-issue. As it is, incandescent lighting is a field of technology I admire but don't want for myself.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 10, 2020)

We like incands because it confuses and frustrates LED Jockeys who think the whole world has to be like them; only using energy efficient things, and all that tripe.


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## 325addict (Aug 11, 2020)

Jean-Luc Descarte said:


> 100% agreed. The lion's share of my LED torches is all neutral-warm to warm because of that inviting tint of incans (not CRI, though, I don't really care much about that purity). The nostalgia also makes me use my collection in low mode unless extra power is necessary. I use 30 lumens or less about 90% of the time overall.
> That said, unless a _massive _breakthrough in incandescent bulb efficiency hits the market at accessible prices, I doubt I'll go back to them. I'm no lumen chaser or tint snob, but I am definitely a runtime ninny and LED allows me to indulge in battery life being a total non-issue. As it is, incandescent lighting is a field of technology I admire but don't want for myself.



If runtime matters, there are plenty of options, especially if you do NOT chase large numbers of Lumens. The first thing is to start with a large host (for D-cells for example), then to fill this one up with the best NiMH D-cells available (at this moment that's a 10Ah D cell by Ansmann) and with that energy you can do a lot of things. A standard Maglite bulb draws 700-800mA so runtimes in the region of 12 to 13 hours are no problem. And the best thing: if you finally draw the batteries down, just recharge them! 

Or, if you already have the Makita LXT 18V system: take a lamp BML185 or DML185, add a bulb for the BML184 (this one draws just 200mA instead of 600mA) and, depending on the battery, you will have a maximum of 30 hours(!) of very usable light (when using a BL1860B battery)

If you don't want too large a host but still around 10 hours of runtime combined with GREAT light: buy a 2.5D host with switch tower intact from FiveMega (these are still available, but once they are gone, they are GONE), then add two 32650 li-ion batteries with 7500mAh and take a MagNum star 6-cell original Maglite bulb..., MAN, that's another league of light, compare to that old fashioned 2D cell Maglite with the White Star standard bulb in it....
This is the 2.5D Maglite I mean:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?245998-Dual-Bored-2P-18650-M*g-1-25D


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## pro2 (Oct 10, 2020)

I'm guessing that some of you guys might laugh at this, but I still have love for a couple of big old Mag-Lites... especially since having kids. 

My kids love to play in the dark, and we camp a lot. Modern LED lamps are just too damned bright and I fear the kids damaging their eyesights. I picked up some Maglights at a garage sale for cheap, put new bulbs in them, and gave them to the kids. Kids beat the heck out of them, and they are large enough that can be easily seen and recovered when dropped (orange duct tape helps).


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## bykfixer (Oct 10, 2020)

Welcome to the site pro2.

Some still have love for the Maglite. Probably more for those old incans than their LED lights to boot. Those old lights were built to last. Probably what took out the most was leaking batteries. Otherwise they'd still be in houses all over the place.


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## 325addict (Oct 10, 2020)

That's completely true. I now have a large variety of setups for my 2D Mag:
- long running low light with a 2.5V / 200mA bulb in it
- decent all-round performance and decent runtime with a standard White Star bulb (or a 2.8V / 850mA halogen bulb) 
- quite a lot of light with a Tad Customs PR7212 (7.2V / 1.2A) and a 6AA to 2D battery holder / converter in it
- an enormous amount of light by modding it completely with glass lens, metal reflector, PR to bi-pin adapter, WA1274 bulb and 6AA to 2D adapter.

There's a lot of fun to be had with those "old" Maglites!

But... don't rule out their new LED flashlights! That small 2C Maglite in the design of a "maxi-mini-Maglite" is a serious performer, and will last dozens of hours on "low" which is barely less than full mode. And look at that price... how do they do that??



bykfixer said:


> Welcome to the site pro2.
> 
> Some still have love for the Maglite. Probably more for those old incans than their LED lights to boot. Those old lights were built to last. Probably what took out the most was leaking batteries. Otherwise they'd still be in houses all over the place.


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## turbodog (Oct 11, 2020)

There was a company that made a 8aa-2d adapter for 2d lights. That's nothing special... but this also included a soft start voltage regulated circuit and some high watt bulbs also. I owned 2 of them at one time, none now.

Willie Hunt did the regulator.


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## thermal guy (Oct 11, 2020)

archimedes said:


> They can run ok with the batteries in backwards ?



Not everyone knew that!😂😂😂😂😂


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## archimedes (Oct 11, 2020)

...


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## Swedpat (Oct 12, 2020)

archimedes said:


> They can run ok with the batteries in backwards ?



A few years ago I had a conversation about flashlights with a friend. When I pointed out the importance to place the batteries correct way he meant it doesn't matter and I argued against him. After that I realised we were both partly right. I thought about LED lights with electronical circuits but he thought about incandescents. With standard incandescent lights it doesn't matter.


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## Katherine Alicia (Oct 12, 2020)

it`s also a lot easier to swap emitters!


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## thermal guy (Oct 12, 2020)

Katherine Alicia said:


> it`s also a lot easier to swap emitters!



😂😂😂😂😂 very true.


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## Katherine Alicia (Oct 12, 2020)

on the subject of emitters I was going to say that you can turn an Incan torch into a LED torch anytime you want but not the other way around. Then I realised that I`v turned a LED torch into an Incan torch that has High and Low and Strobe already.
but it`s still easier the other way around


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## LED61 (Oct 15, 2020)

JS magnificent thread on the only regulated voltage Incandescent flashlight the A2 Aviator is around somewhere. It is an excellent review and will answer many of the incan love questions. Highly recommended.


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## thermal guy (Oct 15, 2020)

The A2. God, can’t tell you how many hours I spent with one of them around my neck when I was into ghost hunting. I use to keep the led’s on so I could see where I was going and had the main beam for when things got weird. Lots of good memories with that light.


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## ma tumba (Oct 16, 2020)

Still taking out my A2 with multimode 3200/5600K led ring out almost every week. Not the only light I use but one of the most admired ones


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## Swedpat (Oct 16, 2020)

Regulated incandescents is indeed very attractive. I wonder why this has not been used more! Yes, I understand that for practical use the runtime will be shorter but still.


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